# Gas/Diesel substitute



## iForgeDesigns (May 15, 2013)

I once heard that there was a natural way to create a gasoline or diesel substitute from wood. Is that true or is anything even remotely close to this concept?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Wood gas is what you want to focus your research on.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

Oh good grief... they did that to an El Camino??? Shame.. an old truck or something... okay.. but an El Camino? Really? Oh well.. and yeah, google "wood gassifier".


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

d_saum said:


> Oh good grief... they did that to an El Camino??? Shame.. an old truck or something... okay.. but an El Camino? Really? Oh well.. and yeah, google "wood gassifier".


You don't understand. That modification simply makes it* more fun* for the next owner to restore it to factory specs. See? Simple.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

methanol can be produced from wood, is liquid and makes a decent motor fuel, but is kind of poisonous thru contact. creosote if thin enough should work in a diesel. plant oils when thinned (by heat is best) work fairly well in most diesels, but too many people have fallen for the biodiesel craze in which a chemical process needs to happen and involves a waste product
Search SVO or straight vegitable oil as motor fuel. Wood gas can run an engine but it takes a lot of operator input and a contraption to do it. 
Rudolph Diesel designed the engine named after him to run on plant oils.


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## iForgeDesigns (May 15, 2013)

So as I understand it, in order to even use wood gas you have to build a contraption? And how exactly does vegetable oil work? I'm not really understanding clearly.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

iForgeDesigns said:


> So as I understand it, in order to even use wood gas you have to build a contraption? And how exactly does vegetable oil work? I'm not really understanding clearly.


Wikipedia. Vegetable oil fuel.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Probably wood gas that you are thinking of but it is possible to produce Bio-oil from wood, this is similar to crude oil. I think I posted a video, maybe it was someone else, of a backyard setup with some fractional refining but I don't really feel like digging for it ATM.

Here is a bit of info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bio-oil
http://www.che.ncsu.edu/ILEET/CHE596web_Fall2011/resources/biomass-biofuels/Pyrolysis-of-Wood.pdf
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/turning-wood-chips-into-gasoline/


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Before you begin looking too hard at alternative fuels, a firm understanding of how a spark ignition engine (Gasoline or propane) burns fuel compared to a how compression ignition engine (Diesel) is nessicary or it is easy to get overwhelmed by the differences and nomenclature. 

To give a generic answer to the how does vegitable oil work question. 
Vegitable oil, when thinned to lower viscosity can be burned in many diesel engines, but it needs to have the right PH level and be free of water and other "contaminants", it requires knowledge and time to experiment.

In a SHTF scenario where there was no other fuel available, then engine life etc would be of a much lower concern than actually being able to get useful work out of an engine rather than its being an artifact.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Spark ignition engines can run on a variety of flammable vapors, and many flammable liquids that vaporize easily. Hundreds of options!!

Diesels need oily liquids as fuels that will burn but don't need to be flammable. Even melted butter will run in a diesel engine..... but care must be taken for the fuels because the injection pump and fuel injector both have a lot of critical tolerances.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

here is the bio crude video that Cowboyhermit refered to earlier


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks Tirediron, that guy is a character and he has a few things not right but still nice to see someone doing this stuff. I should have looked it up but am trying to get some seeding done, meanwhile taking care of some cows calving and everything just got so bunched up this spring:gaah:

But the concept is sound, has been done on large and small scale, how practical it is:dunno: depends on the cost and availability of crude I guess.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

LincTex said:


> Spark ignition engines can run on a variety of flammable vapors, and many flammable liquids that vaporize easily. Hundreds of options!!
> 
> Diesels need oily liquids as fuels that will burn but don't need to be flammable. Even melted butter will run in a diesel engine..... but care must be taken for the fuels because the injection pump and fuel injector both have a lot of critical tolerances.


I'm sorry, but I think I misunderstood something here: "Diesels need oily liquids as fuels that will burn but don't need to be flammable"...I thought that fuels that burn is the definition of being flammable. Did I get this wrong? Not trying to be a smarta$$. Just confused by what you mean


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Startingout-Blair said:


> Did I get this wrong? Not trying to be a smarta$$. Just confused by what you mean


No prob.... I will always help those with a desire to learn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammable_liquid
Definition:
Generally, a "flammable liquid" is a liquid that can easily catch fire. In the US, there is a precise definition of flammable liquid as one with a flash point below 100 degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius). Less-flammable liquids (with a flashpoint between 100 degrees and 200 degrees Fahrenheit) are defined as combustible liquids.

Gasoline = flammable
Diesel = combustible


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

LincTex said:


> No prob.... I will always help those with a desire to learn.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammable_liquid
> Definition:
> ...


Thanks! I appreciate the knowledge!


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

I am all for the white lightening. You are making it anyhow.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

cnsper said:


> I am all for the white lightening. You are making it anyhow.


For folks living in cold climates, you will still need a little gasoline to get the engine started. Starting an alcohol engine in the winter is not easy.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

a 20# propane tank would last a long time if used for a prime on an alcohol engine.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

A can of ether goes a surprisingly long way as well.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> A can of ether goes a surprisingly long way as well.


I suppose it depends on how cold it is.... you need enough engine heat to vaporize the next intake charge (of alcohol/air mix) and I don't see starting fluid doing that. I haven't tried it though, but I have my doubts.

When I lived in North Dakota and played with alcohol fuels, I had to warm the engine (V8 Chevy) for several minutes on gasoline before it was warm enough to run on alcohol.... and even then, it would just *barely* run because alcohol burns so darn cold. It takes forever to get to any operating temperature at all, and you need almost all intake air coming from around the exhaust manifolds. I think the older inline 6 engines that had the exhaust manifold bolted directly to the bottom of the intake would do better. Same with old Farmalls with "distillate" manifolds.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

since I would guess this thread is supposed to be for after SHTF. a wood fired preheater could also come into play (a coil of steel or copper tube on a campfire with heater hose connected would work.)


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> A wood fired preheater could also come into play (a coil of steel or copper tube on a campfire with heater hose connected would work.)


Sure. Years ago you could buy small kerosene-fired underhood engine coolant heaters. It has been decades since I have seen one... electric block heaters have taken over.

Way back when, My dad used to drain the oil out of the car and take it in the house when still warm, then heat it on the stove and pour it into the engine when hot to get the car started.


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