# I don't think we realize how scary SHTF would be.



## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

Most of us (including me) have thought of TEOTWAKI/SHTF would be cool or fun. But we also forget that it would be scary as hell. What made me think of this was a dream I had last night. Actually 2.

The first dream went like this... I was in school and then I checked my news on my phone in class then realized something was horribly wrong. So I was trying to figure out a way to leave school and get to the neighborhood across the street so I could get home. Then I finally got to it but I realized I had no Idea where I was and I couldn't get to my house or family. 

The second dream went like this...
I told my parents that something was wrong and the SHTF and they didn't believe me so I had to go to school. At school I checked the news and the U.S had been hit with a nuke. But since it was in the middle of the work day the news hadn't gotten around yet. So I called my parents to get home right away. Then I left school and arrived at my house and my mom was there but my dad wasn't. And nobody could find out where he was. Then the chaos ensued as people found out what had happened.


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

Well, there are differing levels of "SHTF". One nuke set off in a big city would mean Bad Juju for those citizens, but would have little immediate effect on the rest of the nation. If in NYC, the financial workings have been spread out more since the debacle of 9-11. If in DC - well, not much downside there........ 

BUT..... make that an air-burst over our nation that puts us under a huge EMP burst - yeah, now we are talking Big Trouble........ 
Schools would be immediately shutdown - no power or other utilities. Your homes would be powerless and waterless too. All stores down - but in three days or less, the people raid all stores to restock their home shelves - few keep more than a few days food at home.
Gas stations down - NO gas or diesel - cars and trucks are soon dead ont he roads. No air travel No shipping of goods, fuels or anything else. Farms, pretty much run by machine these days, are also down. Those with family or backyard farms and gardens will be raided.
LEO and other emergency services will be overwhelmed and soon unable to respond - NO gas......
I would expect municipal leaders to declare Martial Law and begin gathering ALL resources - public and PRIVATE - for "The greater good"..... ie. we risk our preps being confiscated. NEVER let others know of your preps! They will DEMAND their 'share'....... 
In about two weeks, the death toll rises, as people starve, die of thirst and disease, or from simply being killed for what little they have.
Imagine the state of the hospitals - disease, injuries, shootings..... and little power, medicines quickly used up and NO new deliveries. Doctors, nurses and other staff eventually leave to take care of their own families.
BO to the woods and hunt....? Yeah, you and ten thousand other Bubbas......
I give it two weeks and ALL the animals are killed out.
FedGov will TRY to 'manage' the catastrophe - FEMA will be everywhere..... but inthe end they will give it up and withdraw. They will seek to protect the "Leadership", and leave the rest of us to fate......

Gonna be a rough time - the New Dark Ages....... :surrender: 

Anyone looking forward to this is a fool.........


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

Yeah, if thinking about it is scary, imagine what it will really be like! However, thinking out all these dreams and scenarios is helpful, because it makes you think about what you will do. Being prepared both in supplies and mentally, with a plan, is the best way to survive things.


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

Bigdog57 said:


> Well, there are differing levels of "SHTF". One nuke set off in a big city would mean Bad Juju for those citizens, but would have little immediate effect on the rest of the nation.


I disagree. I think that if a small nuke that did even less damage then a conventional bomb was set off the psychological effect would be huge. People would be panicking when the found out the U.S was nuked. No matter what size the nuke is the idea of being nuked will send people into chaos.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

lexsurivor said:


> I disagree. I think that if a small nuke that did even less damage then a conventional bomb was set off the psychological effect would be huge. People would be panicking when the found out the U.S was nuked. No matter what size the nuke is the idea of being nuked will send people into chaos.


You're right ... it's all a mind game and the panic will be the worst part of the crisis. *If* the governments can get people calmed down and feeling secure and *if* the governments have plans in place and *if* they have the ability to implement then much can be done to alleviate the fear.

You're right ... we're screwed!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I disagree strongly with the original post, I believe that many of us prep precisely because we know it will be bad. If it wasn't bad, we wouldn't prep. This ain't a game to me or something to look forward to like an extended camping trip with everyone invited. This would be a Hellish struggle to survive with daily combinations of misery, boredom and terror combined with hunger and depression. I prep to mitigate the potential effects.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with lex. A small nuke in one city would panic everyone because they'd fear more nukes would be coming. It truly would be a scary time. 

What I'm about to say I mean in all seriousness, not as a joke. We pretty much live off our garden and hunting, etc., but I really would miss a world where I COULD go buy a soft drink, candy bar, corn chips, or a good pizzaria pizza. Trivial as that seems, those are the things I would miss. I can bake cookies, muffins, pies, even homemade pizza, but it's not the same.

Imagine seeing your supply of socks or even underwear are pretty well worn out, and having to make or barter with someone to make those things. 

What will you miss 5 years from now if it happened today?


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

Dr.pepper. That's why Im trying to figure out their secret recipe. I have the first 22 flavors down but cant find out the 23rd. :scratch


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

It's prunes...lots and lots of fermented prunes.


Now if I could keep the bottling plant that makes Diet Coke up no matter what I'm good to go.


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

lexsurivor said:


> Most of us (including me) have thought of TEOTWAKI/SHTF would be cool or fun. But we also forget that it would be scary as hell.


Just as those who think that going to war and "killing the bad guys" would be cool and/or fun have never experienced war; those who believe that TEOTWAWKI/SHTF would be cool and/or fun have never been in a meltdown.:gaah:

Ask any of the folks who lived through the nightmare of Katrina... or the Chicago blizzards of 1967 and 1979... or any other natural disaster how cool and fun it was. Ask a San Franciscan how much fun and how cool it was to experience the 1989 earthquake,,, especially if they were on the Bay Bridge.

It won't be fun. It won't be cool. Many of us this forum, (as well as in the rest of society), will die... all unpleasantly, some horribly. For those that survive it will be a bleak existence, (research the lives of European peasants during the period from 900-1700 A.D.).

It ain't gonna be like the experiences of the "heroes" in "Mad Max" or some video game. It will be a hard, hungry miserable time that no sane person would wish to happen.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

I think it goes both ways. There are those who fantasize about it, thinking how "cool" it would be but really have no idea how bad things could get or how quickly. 
Then there are those of us who have a pretty good idea and as said, is exactly why we prep. 

Tim


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone fantasizing about TEOTWAWKI it is over the age of... actual or mental...12. This has to be a pre pubescent fantasy without even a pre adult's grasp of what can happen.


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## SaskBound (Feb 13, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone fantasizing about TEOTWAWKI it is over the age of... actual or mental...12. This has to be a pre pubescent fantasy without even a pre adult's grasp of what can happen.


I have to disagree a little. One of my ongoing fantasies is to not have neighbours, and / or to limit my interactions to a couple hundred people a year (I work for a huge corporation. I probably talk to a hundred people in a day). While I enjoy that thought, I have no illusions of what TEOTWAKI would look / feel like, and have no interest in actually living it. It's true; that's why I prep.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I don't think I'd get caught up in the doom and gloom aspect of living an a Post SHTF world. After reading a few of these posts I wonder why some prepare. Sounds like you might be better off dead. There would be bad times but people have survived worse and even enjoyed life as they knew it. 
Much of it will be the attitude we greet our new life with.

Don't forget, even if its TEOTWAWKI, we still have knowledge that people didn't have 500 years ago. The dark ages returned? Not hardly!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

It'd be wonderful not to have to supervise people, do purchase orders to get things done, comply with regulations and laws that often overlap and contradict each other, and resource efforts without having the funds or materials at work.

However, I can imagine not having medicine. Not having food. Working my fat butt off to get anything, not just comforts but necessities. I've been cold, wet, and miserable and I've been without good drinking water and I don't ever want to experience that again. All that was without threat-others seeking the same resources. It's one thing to wear a sidearm at times due to duty or to be prudent, it's another to have it out of necessity.

I like being able to go get a salad in a drive through. I like meeting a friend and eating sushi and discussing theories. I like chatting with fresh, clean, lovelies without fear in their eyes. Life now is good. Mothers can feed their children unless they are dirt bags. We're protected by the Rule of Law.

Post TSHTF it'll be bad. Very bad. 

I don't wish that on anyone, even those who think it's going to be fun.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

If TEOTWAWKI really happens it'll be a very scary time. At least until things settle down into whatever the "new" world as we'll get to know it, falls into place. That could be a couple years, maybe more.

I think about how frightened my kids and grandkids would be if they really did have to bug out to get here. One of the things I've done to ease that is to pack "transition" buckets full of treats and comfort food for those first weeks or months to help ease...what else? The transition. 

We also packed up a few "Christmas buckets", so we call them, that we don't plan to dig up for about 5 years after TEOTWAWKI, with the things that we probably will be long out of...Sugar, white flour (we'll be using whole wheat that we grind, for daily use), salt, spices, candy, hot cocoa, instant coffee, dry creamer, etc. That'll be a big treat by then. I've even wondered how long soda pop would keep in an airtight container buried well below the frost line. Just enough for everyone to have a bit. 

Imagine if one of your loved ones got hurt and there was no hospital or doctor to take them to? Or a heart attack? Or over time someone gets sicker and sicker and in pain, and you think it might be cancer, but there's no place to go, nothing that can be done.

Imagine going to bed not knowing if someone was going to attack in the night. Imagine not being able to buy gas, use your car, go to a store for anything. 

Saskabound, I had such a funny feeling reading about all the many, many people you must talk to in any given work day. Until I went to Kalispell yesterday for my granddaughter's birthday party, I'd gone two weeks without laying eyes on another human other than my husband and a son that still lives at home. I talked to one family member and one neighbor on the phone. All other contact with the outside world was via internet. We live near the end of a very remote gravel road, so there's no traffic to speak of. It's fascinating to think of living your life for a day.


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

Part of the reason is movies and games only show the glamorous parts of TEOTWAKI. They don't show the bad parts. Also I really doubt that most of my generation could survive. Most would die or commit suicide within a week. Without their precious I-pod.


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone fantasizing about TEOTWAWKI it is over the age of... actual or mental...12. This has to be a pre pubescent fantasy without even a pre adult's grasp of what can happen.


I would say age 10. Because by the time their 12 they have a little bit of grasp on reality.


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## PS360 (Sep 10, 2010)

I’ve never romanticized it and considered it to be fun. 

It’d be scary, dangerous and a lot of work with tons of sacrifices along the way.


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## mmszbi (Nov 14, 2009)

> we still have knowledge that people didn't have 500 years ago


Knowledge is one of the key things that will allow us to survive. Knowledge that something can be done goes a LONG way to making it get done.

I just hope and pray ferverently that things don't go to crap. I have no illusions of living well if it does. I NEED the medications that modern industry allows the production of. I am a scrapper and can make do with little, but I DON'T WANT TO! It absolutely scares the crap out of me to think about the responsibilities of protecting/feeding my family when (not if) SHTF.
Anybody that says differently is full of bullsh*t.


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

gypsysue said:


> We pretty much live off our garden and hunting, etc., but I really would miss a world where I COULD go buy a soft drink, candy bar, corn chips, or a good pizzaria pizza. Trivial as that seems, those are the things I would miss. I can bake cookies, muffins, pies, even homemade pizza, but it's not the same.


Gypsysue;
Part of why I prepare is not just to survive, (as long as possible for an old fart like me... I cannot do what I was able to do 30 years ago, but I will not go quietly into the night).

Part of my preps include researching and testing recipes of foods that make life more interesting and enjoyable.

I have a few of them on-line, Pizza for example at Pizza-Pizza
with the homemade Italian sausage recipe at Sweet Italian Sausage










I also have tested recipes for soft drinks, (cola; ginger ale; root beer; old-fashioned red cream soda), corn chips and pretzels as well as different candies.

When TSHTF, I will still have some creature comfort goodies... and you should prepare to have some too.:beercheer:


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## SaskBound (Feb 13, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Saskabound, I had such a funny feeling reading about all the many, many people you must talk to in any given work day. Until I went to Kalispell yesterday for my granddaughter's birthday party, I'd gone two weeks without laying eyes on another human other than my husband and a son that still lives at home. I talked to one family member and one neighbor on the phone. All other contact with the outside world was via internet. We live near the end of a very remote gravel road, so there's no traffic to speak of. It's fascinating to think of living your life for a day.


I can't imagine you'd really want to live my life for even a day...most of the people I speak to in a day are really, really unpleasant. And dangerous. I would love to only have to interact with my husband, family, and a few close friends...


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## thunderdan19 (Oct 12, 2010)

I would hope nobody here has an overly rainbow colored idea of TEOTWAWKI, nor "looks forward" to it. I think there is a level of anticipation that it (provided the USGVT continues its unsustainable spending, the terrorists continue to work toward a chem/bio/nuke charged attack on us, our system of government runs its course or any of a host of other eventualities) is a likely outcome, perhaps in our lifetimes (thereby the preparations).

But I do think there is a certain curiosity of how things will play out, whether your preps are proper and adequate, and how things will be if/once everything restablizes. That's natural, I think. But glamorizing it, I think most of us leave that to Hollywood.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

SaskBound said:


> I can't imagine you'd really want to live my life for even a day...most of the people I speak to in a day are really, really unpleasant. And dangerous. I would love to only have to interact with my husband, family, and a few close friends...


Dangerous people? Wow...sorry to hear that. I was picturing a more pleasant aspect like maybe something at a mall or restaurant, maybe sales (real estate, auto), or a travel agent or airpline personnel.

I don't wish for another life, I just like knowing what other people's lives are like. I like to read random blogs on the internet. My favorite is a professional guy in New York City. What a contrast to my life!

Tortminder: Thanks for the link to pizzas! I've been trying to make a really good pizza. My crust has good texture but seems to lack in flavor. I'd love to know more about how to improve what I put on top of the crust. I make a decent Italian sausage. We butchered two pigs a couple years ago and I made at least half of it into sausage, part Italian sausage and the rest into breakfast sausage. Not that there isn't more I could learn about it. Things can always be improved!

We made root beer once, but it was kind of yeasty and flat. A person can imitate the hostess cakes pretty easily, and probably corn chips and potato chips. Candy bars might be harder!

Not that I want to fill my diet with junk, but since junk food is a major treat for us, it's on my mind for TEOTWAWKI. There's something to be said for treats. When you only get to town once every month or two and you know you're going to be able to buy a pop and maybe a pizza or a double cheeseburger somewhere, you savor every bite. Because you know it will be weeks before you get that opportunity again.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

instead of trying to save soda pop already made, what about saving the syrup & a CO2 cannister?

Fountain Jet - Seltzer Starter Kit

we just make kool-aid (we control the sugar & it's cheaper)


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

The_Blob said:


> instead of trying to save soda pop already made, what about saving the syrup & a CO2 cannister?
> 
> Fountain Jet - Seltzer Starter Kit
> 
> we just make kool-aid (we control the sugar & it's cheaper)


I took a plastic cap from a disposable 2 liter container drilled a hole and added a metal schrader valve(tire valve) to it and I make my own seltzer water, using a CO2 tank to charge, just add water, non-chlorinated best, put on cap and pressurize with a tire air valve from the tank, shake and repeat a couple of times. Wallah, home-made, and cheap. You can add a flavoring first to make you own soda pop.
I can't find the cap right now, when I do I will add a photo of it.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

All my life, even as a child, life has been an adventure for me. Some good, some bad, and some really bad. I believe all the things I have experienced in my life have made me the person I am today. No, life will not be pleasant but it will be life, a chance to teach a child, help someone who is unable to do for themselves, be there to support your SO and family. Just remember God never put on us more than He knows we can bear. I try not to dwell on the ugly side of TEOTWAWKI, just continue to prep and learn new things, stay abreast of the world & finiancal news so me and mine will survive as best we can.


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

gypsysue said:


> Tortminder: Thanks for the link to pizzas! I've been trying to make a really good pizza. My crust has good texture but seems to lack in flavor. I'd love to know more about how to improve what I put on top of the crust. I make a decent Italian sausage. We butchered two pigs a couple years ago and I made at least half of it into sausage, part Italian sausage and the rest into breakfast sausage. Not that there isn't more I could learn about it. Things can always be improved!


Gypsysue;

You're welcome for the link.

Regarding the flavor of your pizza crust, a couple of suggestions;
*1)* Acquire a pizza stone or some fire bricks to put on the rack of your oven. Preheat the oven with the stone or bricks until it is at the maximum temperature that your oven will produce, (the best "professional" pizzas are baked hot and quick).:wave:

*2)* If you want a crispy "New York" style thin crust, poke holes in the raw dough with a fork before adding the toppings. This will give your crust a more cracker-like consistency and flavor.:congrat:

*3)* Acquire a pizza peel, (the paddle-like thingy that commercial pizza places use to put the pie into the oven). Spread corn meal liberally on the peel and prepare the pizza on the peel. The corn meal will act as ball bearings allowing the pie to freely slide onto the pizza stone or bricks, and will add flavor and texture to the crust.

*4)* Use or make your sauce from sweet plum tomatoes. Experiment with various "gravy", (red sauce), recipes. Some of the best are made with pork neck bones, (it would be useful to befriend an old Italian grandmother and hope to get her to teach you how to make "gravy").

*5)* The size of the morsels used for toppings does make a difference. Much like stir-frying in a Wok, consistency of topping size means that ingredients cook evenly, (you don't want a softball sized piece of pork based Italian sausage that is half-raw topping your pie).:scratch

*6)* Experiment with your cheeses. Mozzarella is traditional, and is not that difficult to make at home. Parmesan, Romano, Alpenzeller and even Cheddar make for a good mix.

*7)* Not all pies are made with tomato sauce. Lightly brush your crust with a good olive oil, top with sliced plum tomatoes, fresh basil leaves and chunks of fresh goat cheese, (you can "dust" the whole pie with red pepper flakes for a bit of "zing").

*8) *Think outside of the box. Look at your pizza as a big round open-faced sandwich. While not traditional, try a Reuben pizza with Russian dressing, corned beef, Sauerkraut, (this is especially good if you make your crust with rye flour with ground caraway seed in the dough). There are other combinations that while not traditional are, nevertheless, delicious.

*9)* On the same subject, (somewhat), as above, look into making calzones or "Pasties" using your standard pizza dough and various fillings... truly a movable feast.

*10) *While thinking outside the box, don't forget that you can make a sweet pizza as well as a savory one. Various fruit toppings can be used and think of using jam or jelly in place of the sauce. A breakfast "bacon and egg" pizza is a nice change of pace also.:2thumb:

Manga-manga!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Wow, thank you, tortminder! I appreciate all the suggestions. I copied and pasted them so we could print it. Oooh, calzones, I love those. I'll have to try making them, maybe even for dinner tonight!

I always saw that grainy stuff on the pizzas and didn't realize it was cornmeal. I thought it was something similar to parmesan cheese...the sprinkle kind in a can. Now it makes sense, and I like your description of it being like little ball bearings helping the pizza slide off the paddle.

I'll probably have to look online for the pizza stone and paddle, since we're in a pretty remote place, though firebrick I can probably find here. Internet shopping has brought the world to us!


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

gypsysue said:


> Wow, thank you, tortminder! I appreciate all the suggestions. I copied and pasted them so we could print it. Oooh, calzones, I love those. I'll have to try making them, maybe even for dinner tonight!
> 
> I always saw that grainy stuff on the pizzas and didn't realize it was cornmeal. I thought it was something similar to parmesan cheese...the sprinkle kind in a can. Now it makes sense, and I like your description of it being like little ball bearings helping the pizza slide off the paddle.
> 
> I'll probably have to look online for the pizza stone and paddle, since we're in a pretty remote place, though firebrick I can probably find here. Internet shopping has brought the world to us!


Pizza Stone from Ebay Round 15" PIZZA BAKING STONE, Steel Rack & Cutter Chef - eBay (item 370447214326 end time Oct-25-10 19:07:40 PDT)

Pizza peel from ebay Pizza Peel 12 x 14 blade 22 length wood paddle NEW! - eBay (item 120351589454 end time Nov-07-10 07:52:01 PST)

enjoy!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks, tort!


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

Hi, Here I sit, reading all the great posts and then that picute of the yummy pizza appears. Drats, I'm on a strick eating program and I was almost ready to lick the monitor, just to savor the taste of that pizza!! Oh well, I can dream can't I? LOL

I agree, things will get very scary fast and after reading the many posts, I plan to head to the gunshop to buy up some more ammo. Several people know what I have; one of them would come after my food. The other folks would come and help me load what little I have into their truck and I'd go to their location. The more people to hang together the better. I also told my friends that if I am not here and can't get back to Idaho, they are to come and take everything they can get their hands on and take it back to their home. They will have their children and grandkids to feed.

I think about scenarios all the time; that is why my friends will allow me to scoot to their place if the first signs of trouble start. They are my Plan A, if SHTF. They've got a good location in the mountains and only a few neighbors. They are far enough off the road and out of town that anything near town will be razed quickly. 

Living in Idaho I think everyone owns a gun and it will be a real challenge to get onto anyone's property without a good fight.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

thunderdan19 said:


> I would hope nobody here has an overly rainbow colored idea of TEOTWAWKI, nor "looks forward" to it. I think there is a level of anticipation that it (provided the USGVT continues its unsustainable spending, the terrorists continue to work toward a chem/bio/nuke charged attack on us, our system of government runs its course or any of a host of other eventualities) is a likely outcome, perhaps in our lifetimes (thereby the preparations).
> 
> But I do think there is a certain curiosity of how things will play out, whether your preps are proper and adequate, and how things will be if/once everything restablizes. That's natural, I think. But glamorizing it, I think most of us leave that to Hollywood.


Want a real idea of what a country is like after the SHTF? It ain't pretty.


> guarded community, 10 feet high wall, electrified fence, dogs (plural) alarm, burglar bars, other barriers to protect the people at night, diving it into more zones to be breeched, bullet proof construction, guns and fighting training. Then you listen to people that think they'll have security covered&#8230; "when SHTF" &#8230; just because they live in an out of town homestead, have a dog or two and some guns. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it only works well because you never had serious crime to deal with.


SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Security in South Africa


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## PS360 (Sep 10, 2010)

tortminder said:


> Gypsysue;
> Part of why I prepare is not just to survive, (as long as possible for an old fart like me... I cannot do what I was able to do 30 years ago, but I will not go quietly into the night).
> 
> Part of my preps include researching and testing recipes of foods that make life more interesting and enjoyable.
> ...


PIZZA! :2thumb:
Thanks for the recipes.


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## thunderdan19 (Oct 12, 2010)

Jarhead0311 said:


> Want a real idea of what a country is like after the SHTF? It ain't pretty.
> 
> SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA: Security in South Africa


Interesting articles. It is also interesting to hear that parts of this country are becoming more like those 3rd world countries every day. I remark every time I come home from outside the US how each time I return, this country seems more like ones I have visited. Illegal immigration, acceptance of the Least Common Denominator over the achiever, entitlements, social programs and the like are slowly tearing down our once proud society and replacing it with a watered down 3rd world version of itself. Tragic really.


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

lexsurivor said:


> Part of the reason is movies and games only show the glamorous parts of TEOTWAKI. They don't show the bad parts. Also I really doubt that most of my generation could survive. Most would die or commit suicide within a week. Without their precious I-pod.


People should read or watch _The Road._ That is one TEOTWAWKI scenario that I would NOT want to live in. The only think that would keep me going is exactly what keeps the man going in that book.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Jaspar said:


> People should read or watch _The Road._ That is one TEOTWAWKI scenario that I would NOT want to live in. The only think that would keep me going is exactly what keeps the man going in that book.


I've been reading "end of the world" books since I was in High school and I just read "The Road" a couple months ago as my son wanted to read it and bought it..
I would only want to survive if I had someone I had to take care of, other than that* it *would be my biggest nightmare(even worse than zombies!).
That book actually made me feel depressed for quite awhile after I finished reading it, even tho it did kinda make it seem like the boy might be the next "great hope" for the world.
It is going to be on our cable next month and I, for one am NOT going to watch it if I can help it, even tho I have been told that the movie is far different than the book... I wish that they would have written in the book the perspective of the boy.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

"The Road" provides an excellent example of how Hollywood doesn't 'glamorize' the end of the world in many cases. It's gritty, grim and there's some value to it. There's also some negatives about the movie. It's worth it's own thread.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

We've read the book and watched the movie. The guy made some real stupid decisions in both. A little more knowledge would have saved him some problems. It would have helped considerably if the author had expanded somewhat on what actually triggered the events instead of leaving it to speculation. Overall it was a downer and of little use to survival education other than to convey a feeling of helplessness and hopelessness.

It was however a good example of why one should be well prepared with both knowledge and supplies prior to any major event taking place.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I was going to read the book, but now I won't. If it is not educational in helping with "what if" scenerinos or prepping I'm not interested. In order to survive we need to keep a positive attitude and educate ourselves as much as possible, this book is not educational.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

gypsysue said:


> Dangerous people? Wow...sorry to hear that. I was picturing a more pleasant aspect like maybe something at a mall or restaurant, maybe sales (real estate, auto), or a travel agent or airpline personnel.


Let me tell you, as someone who spends 60 hours a week in a restaurant, there is nothing pleasant about it. I spend the vast majority of my day listening to people complain that their steak was medium and not medium well and that has ruined their entire meal and they expect the whole meal for free. The rest of my day is spent dealing with my employees, who complain that they're not making enough money to support their drinking habits.

The vast majority of sheeple have no concept of how petty and inconsequential are their complaints in life. These are the sorts of idiots who will lay down and die when TSHTF, and I have to deal with them on a daily basis.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Turtle said:


> Let me tell you, as someone who spends 60 hours a week in a restaurant, there is nothing pleasant about it. I spend the vast majority of my day listening to people complain that their steak was medium and not medium well and that has ruined their entire meal and they expect the whole meal for free. The rest of my day is spent dealing with my employees, who complain that they're not making enough money to support their drinking habits.
> 
> The vast majority of sheeple have no concept of how petty and inconsequential are their complaints in life. These are the sorts of idiots who will lay down and die when TSHTF, and I have to deal with them on a daily basis.


Wow, you got me there! Sorry to hear people are like that.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

People are basically good. When the chips are down, we'll put aside our differences and work together to better man kind.

That said...I can't believe how stupid some people are.

Today I was in line and I saw a common problem...the checker charged the person a head of me for two of one item, when there was only one, so she voided it. (2-1=1). The big, tall woman in front of me says "Hey, you charged me for three!" The checker said "No, I rang up two, and voided one, so that's one." Well, the big woman holds up her fingers "Two plus one equals three!" At this point, I just sigh, shift my weight, and realize it's going to take a while for this thick headed person to be made to understand what happened.

At least in this instance, she didn't demand it free.

I've heard at Walmart and other businesses, customers say things like "You made a mistake so it's free."

I hate customers. Thank goodness I didn't last long in customer service.


Some folks just ain't going to make it when the fit hits the shan. Imagine trying to explain a ration plan, contingency planning, or maintenance schedules to someone like that.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Turtle said:


> my employees, who complain that they're not making enough money to support their drinking habits.


freakin' servers...
idk how it is in your state, but here servers only have to declare tips for *8%* of what they bring in, most people tip 20%-30%, some 15%, some zilch, but the avg is usually still 20+%
to bring this into perspective it is the same thing as you strolling into the IRS office on April 15th, after making $100k for the year, and telling them "you know, I _really_ should only be taxed on $40k, really"... see how fast you get laughed out of the office OR prosecuted if you file it that way
most servers I've seen work 3-5 hours a night & bring home $100+, & this is at places like family restaurants & sports bars, NOT fine dining! I do NOT live in an affluent area either.
with the advent of credit cards record keeping & tax evasion are harder, but MANY people still TIP in cash even if putting the bill 'on the card'
5 hrs worked each night & $100 in tips (20% tip avg) & five nights/week worked
$100/5=$20/hr
$100/.2=$500 brought into restaurant
$500x.08=$40 taxable 
$100-$40=$60 tax free 
(25hrs x $3.50=$87.50) $87.50-$35.18=$52.32 in the paycheck per week
($40x5=$200) = $287.50 - taxes of $35.18 = $252.32 total a week (on paper)
$287.50 x 52weeks = $14,950 (below poverty rate for one person, let alone a single mom with 1-3 kids!) ($1829 in taxes annually)
compared to $587.50 x 52 = $30550 (should be $4169 in taxes annually, but the on paper tax rate of $1829 is what is payed) $87.50-$80.18=$7.32 is what SHOULD be in the check per week

that is if servers played by the RULES that the rest of us do

I'm tired, I'm cranky, I'm ill & I realize this is disjointed & not complete,but it should give anyone of you an argument to tell any damn servers that feel the need to complain about 'how hard' their life is to be thankful they make full-time pay for part-time work

:gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah::gaah: conversations I've had a thousand effing times


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

This seems like a good time to resurrect this thread, since people are debating whether we understand thoroughly that the post-SHTF world will be a violent and dangerous place. 

Along with that is the discussion of what one would need to do to protect or defend themselves and their loved ones. You know...guns vs. not-guns. How much ammo, etc. Non-lethal or non-firearm defenses. Those discussions are already in progress on other threads, so if you're reading this one and you're interested, there's good information on those other threads.

This way the newbies have yet another place to read about this, and the ones who are horrified at the realization of the remifications of the post-SHTF world will have a reminder of why we prep. For myself I know these things and I keep prepping to the best of my ability, but I don't obsess on it. That would be like sitting in the middle of my house in terror because there's a possibility it could burn down. I do what I can to make my house a safe place, then I go on with my life, occasionally maintaining whatever is necessary to keep it a safe place.

The thread got derailed into other equally interesting subjects, but if you go back to the beginning, you can read some good comments relating to the OP (Original post).


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## Kathryn (Jun 10, 2010)

In regards to how things will be when SHTF, my husband and I have discussed it at length. We have discussed the medical issues, so we made a significant first aid kit which took into account every medical issue that could be handled without civilized medical equipment. We have discussed security issues, so we purchased a wide variety of guns and ammunition, developed a bullet-proof design for our home, and developed an outer parimeter design to increase security. We have discussed food issues, thus have stockpiled enough food for two years, purchased an extensive variety of heirloom seeds to garden, designed a smoker to preserve wild game, purchased rabbits to raise for meat, goats for milk and meat, and chickens for eggs and meat. We have also purchased a wood burning stove for cooking and heating, and plan to build a wood oven and a solar oven. We have discussed the psychological issues, thus have purchased solar panels and wind generated electrical windmills for electricity to be used to power our laptops so we can watch DVDs. We have also purchased a number of books that we will enjoy reading, as well as books that we can learn from. I have a degree in Psychology, thus I will be able to help myself and others in adjusting to the trauma of a SHTF scenario, and other traumatic events. We are planning to move off-the-grid the beginning of 2011 to a very rural area, which already has a number of deep wells for water. We are moving to our new homestead so that we can begin adjusting to living a more self-sustaining life before it is necessary so that we be better prepared and able to handle the additional stresses involved in a SHTF scenario. 

While we do not truly wish for a SHTF scenario, we would not be adverse to a major change in the world as we know it. Most people have lost their ability or desire to provide for themselves, or even know how to sustain their own lives. My husband and I have lived well below the poverty line, as well as upper middle class, and frankly, were happier when we had less money, as it provided the reason to be self reliant, and showed us what was really important in life, family and friends not cars, houses, and trinkets.

The hardest thing that we will have to deal with is the loss of family and friends that don't make it up to our homestead if SHTF.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

kathryn, you and your husband have thought this out well, laid careful plans, and you're implementing them! Hats off to you! Moving out there to live the lifestyle will give you an edge. You'll be past the learning curve before things go bad. That was our plan, too, when we moved out here. Then when the kids/grandkids have to join us, we'll be better equipped to help THEM throught the transition. It will be traumatic for them, some more than others, when they have to leave their homes and it's likely for good. 

The world could settle down and become less dangerous, but will their homes in town even still be there? Maybe, maybe not.

I,too, have lived at both ends of the financial spectrum, and I much prefer our current life below the poverty line. I feel richer in so many ways! We had to plan for it, though. Everything is paid off and we've put our preps and plans into order.

Best wishes!


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## Kathryn (Jun 10, 2010)

Our families are surprisingly behind us on this change of lifestyle, which I believe is because they feel it is necessary but don't have the wherewithall to prepare themselves. I believe that they are still relying on their hope that things will turn around and that the crap wont hit the fan. We are preparing for them to have a safe, secure, and relatively comfortable place when SHTF, where they will be able to live, eat, and survive. 

It is good to see that you are also preparing to take in family. It will be those of us who are preparing for SHTF that will be the most needed and depended upon, so it is up to us to make sure we are prepared for our families, not just ourselves.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Turtle said:


> Let me tell you, as someone who spends 60 hours a week in a restaurant, there is nothing pleasant about it. I spend the vast majority of my day listening to people complain that their steak was medium and not medium well and that has ruined their entire meal and they expect the whole meal for free. The rest of my day is spent dealing with my employees, who complain that they're not making enough money to support their drinking habits.
> 
> The vast majority of sheeple have no concept of how petty and inconsequential are their complaints in life. These are the sorts of idiots who will lay down and die when TSHTF, and I have to deal with them on a daily basis.


Know what I say when confronted with that situation of complainers??
Hey, sorry your life is sooo bad..wanna go with me to visit my friend at the nursing home>??? she's been in the bed, paralyzed from neck down for about 20 years now.............

Silence!!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Kathryn said:


> In regards to how things will be when SHTF, my husband and I have discussed it at length. We have discussed the medical issues, so we made a significant first aid kit which took into account every medical issue that could be handled without civilized medical equipment. We have discussed security issues, so we purchased a wide variety of guns and ammunition, developed a bullet-proof design for our home, and developed an outer parimeter design to increase security. We have discussed food issues, thus have stockpiled enough food for two years, purchased an extensive variety of heirloom seeds to garden, designed a smoker to preserve wild game, purchased rabbits to raise for meat, goats for milk and meat, and chickens for eggs and meat. We have also purchased a wood burning stove for cooking and heating, and plan to build a wood oven and a solar oven. We have discussed the psychological issues, thus have purchased solar panels and wind generated electrical windmills for electricity to be used to power our laptops so we can watch DVDs. We have also purchased a number of books that we will enjoy reading, as well as books that we can learn from. I have a degree in Psychology, thus I will be able to help myself and others in adjusting to the trauma of a SHTF scenario, and other traumatic events. We are planning to move off-the-grid the beginning of 2011 to a very rural area, which already has a number of deep wells for water. We are moving to our new homestead so that we can begin adjusting to living a more self-sustaining life before it is necessary so that we be better prepared and able to handle the additional stresses involved in a SHTF scenario.
> 
> While we do not truly wish for a SHTF scenario, we would not be adverse to a major change in the world as we know it. Most people have lost their ability or desire to provide for themselves, or even know how to sustain their own lives. My husband and I have lived well below the poverty line, as well as upper middle class, and frankly, were happier when we had less money, as it provided the reason to be self reliant, and showed us what was really important in life, family and friends not cars, houses, and trinkets.
> 
> The hardest thing that we will have to deal with is the loss of family and friends that don't make it up to our homestead if SHTF.


WOW!! JUst WOW!! Can I move in with you...warning--big husband comes too!!!


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

I was struck by the variety of responses to the initial proposition. If you have ever seen a panic stricken group of people, you know how dangerous they can be. Nobody in their right mind is looking forward to the fallout from multiple simultaneous terrorist strikes from wmd's or rdd's, but preparing can make it much easier to deal with situations that are thrust upon us, no matter how unthinkable they may be. 

Fear is multifaceted, some fear is from ignorance of a situation, some fear is because we are aware of how bad some situations are. Fear is not necessarily a bad thing...it can keep you out of situations that you might otherwise find yourself in (kind of like situational awareness). Fear and being "scared" can be overcome to a large degree by understanding that there is or may realistically be a problem, and taking positive steps to handle the problem. 

Preparing entails understanding, taking steps to acquire the things that we need, and training to use them should it be required. Preparedness is most importantly a mindset. Kinda like the Boy Scouts motto "Be Prepared". It's not just a slogan, it's a way of life.


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