# Advice on Propane usage



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Ok folks I need some advice on a propane tank.

We are building our house and having a gas water heater and cooktop stove installed. The home will be heated with a wood burning fireplace as primary with heat pump as back up. The question is how much propane can I expect to use for the DW and I cooking and bathing normally?

Im thinking of the 500 gallon tank for longer runs between refills or when the SHTF having plenty on hand. Any other issues that I should be aware of or ask about?


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## AdmiralD7S (Dec 6, 2012)

To give you an idea, we have a 1100 sq ft 20-year-old home. We heat the home and cook with propane, and run around 500 gallons a year. I wouldn't imagine a hot water heater consumes more than a furnace even though it goes year round, but others that heat water with propane will let us know.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

My area of the country is a lot colder then Tennessee. Heat, cook, clothes dryer and heat water with LP. I use about 2,000 gallons a year. Take out the heat part and I'd guess I'd get by with closer to 500 gallons.

Have you considered putting a water coil in the fire place? Heat your water while you are heating your house?

Oops. Posted edited to included LP clothes dryer


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

TheLazyL said:


> ...Have you considered putting a water coil in the fire place? Heat your water while you are heating your house?


Excellent idea on heating the water. Even warming it up some before it goes to the water heater will save a lot of propane. You might also consider passive solar water heating. Run it from there to the water heater and even on cloudy days you'll get some benefits by preheating the water going through the water heater.

Also, an "on demand" water heater will save a lot of propane.

We use propane for cooking only and use about 150 pounds per year. (In 100 pound bottles - approximately 20 gallons each?)


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

I'll eventually add a passive solar preheater and or plumb a coil into the hot box of the fireplace. Just trying to get a feel for what the average person is using.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

A 100# (24 gallon) bottle lasts us about five months. We have a gas range and gas clothes drier. There are two of us in the house.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

smaj100 said:


> The home will be heated with a wood burning fireplace as primary with heat pump as back up.


Do I assume correctly you'll also have electric heat strips in the air handler? Heat pumps don't work very well in cold temperatures (below freezing) so you should have something in the air handler itself.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

A 500 gallon tank would last you for several years on just one fill. I use to deliver propane many years ago and have always used propane in my houses.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

We have a 500 gallon tank.
We filled it twice last winter.
Used for heating only with a central furnace.
There are so many variables it is impossible to know how much you will use.
Outside temperature, inside temperature, insulation, window efficiency, stove efficiency and on and on.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

TheLazyL said:


> My area of the country is a lot colder then Tennessee. Heat, cook, clothes dryer and heat water with LP. I use about 2,000 gallons a year. Take out the heat part and I'd guess I'd get by with closer to 500 gallons.
> 
> Have you considered putting a water coil in the fire place? Heat your water while you are heating your house?
> 
> Oops. Posted edited to included LP clothes dryer


I was considering installing water coils on each side of our wood stove but originally we were only considering the 730 sq. ft. cottage I built to be temporary and I didn't feel like running hot water lines over to it and now that I added on nearly doubling the square footage, thus making it our permanent home, I regret not putting those water lines in. So, if you have the chance to do it, do it now.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

No matter your usage, a 500 - 1000 gallon *below ground *tank sounds like a wise investment. It will give you the opportunity to buy when prices are low and OPSEC.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Due to the fact that our Magic Chef drop in stove has something wrong with the computer, which I will get around to and hopefully fix, we've only been using the stove top burners and I did a little figuring and we only use about 22 gallons of propane a year for cooking. My thinking is if you think you'll use about 500 gallons a year I'd double that to a 1,000 gallon tank, that way it would leave you with an emergency supply for unknown happenings.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> There are so many variables it is impossible to know how much you will use.
> Outside temperature, inside temperature, insulation, window efficiency, stove efficiency and on and on


. 
He is Not using it for heating, only cooking and hot water both of which use very little.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

smaj100 said:


> Ok folks I need some advice on a propane tank.
> 
> We are building our house ...


Is this house in the design stage or is it already under construction? I have a 250 gallon tank (buried) which I use to supply my stove and outdoor kitchen. It should last a few years at the rate I use it. But more importantly, if you are in the design stage of your house there are things you can do to lessen your dependance on propane usage. For instance, install large windows that face the south and let the sun naturally heat the home. And spend the extra money on insulation, it's worth it!

We invested in an outdoor wood burning furnace which heats our house in the winter and provides all of our domestic hot water needs year round. (We live on 50 acres and wood is plentiful.) Our outdoor wood furnace heats water that is pumped through a radiant floor system and heats our house for the cost of running a chain saw. We have a back up wood stove as well as a heat pump but I've only used the wood stove once or twice and the heat pump never.

Our house is 3,600 (+-) and even though minus 0 Winter temps are common, our heating bill in essentially $0.00. Our propane usage is less than 80 gallons a year and our electricity bill is $85-$90 a month.

An outdoor wood furnace (like mine) is about $11K and will pay for itself quickly. And it's great to know that we'll be warm during the winter and will have endless hot water, regardless of the availability of propane or electricity. And a side benefit of the OWF, we get endless charcoal for our BGE. It's a very nice prepper perk!


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## airdrop (Jan 6, 2012)

Get one of the run on demand water heaters ,doesn't run until you turn on the hot water.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Oops, airdrop's post reminded me. We have a propane on-demand water heater for those times when the "dragon" is offline for cleaning. On-demand water heaters are fabulous and IMO are well worth the money. I can't tell you the exact amount of propane it uses but I doubt it was any more than a few gallons a month. Just my wife and me though, YMMV.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Don't just think about today... think about next year and five years from now. We also heat the house with a wood stove. We initially used propane for the tankless water heater, stove, and 18kw standby generator. Later we added a small propane heater for the Man Cave. Early last year we put in a 19cf propane fridge as a backup to our electric fridge and it will become a primary during long power outages where we choose not to run the big generator.

We have two tanks. A 250 gallon that is our primary and came with the property. We added a 500 gallon that is our "disaster preparedness" tank. We're seriously thinking about adding a third tank. Our tanks are above ground since we live out in the boonies and, for us, the cost to bury a tank was better spent on the propane budget. If we lived where people could easily see us, then burying a tank would have been the only option we would consider.

Propane does not go bad and we would rather buy it when the product is available and the price is reasonable than go through what some of you went through this past winter with high prices and low availability.

IMHO don't limit yourself to what you're doing this year. When you talk to your propane supplier(s) get the price of the tank (no smaller than 500 gallons) and then negotiate the initial fill price of the propane. You're buying the tank from them so they should give you a price break on the propane. Then get the price to add a second 500 gallon tank. The time to negotiate prices is early in the process. That's also when you need to find out if they have a disaster preparedness plan to keep the propane flowing if <hurricane/tornado/blizzard/etc> occurs.

On a second note - make sure you include ways to move the heat from the wood stove into the other parts of the house. We put a "through the wall" fan above the wood stove to move heat into the bedroom. It made a significant difference in temperature.

Good luck. It looks like you're considering a lot of things. Are you going to have a well and/or a septic system?


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## talob (Sep 16, 2009)

We are about eighty miles north of Nashville in KY, a 1700 sq dome house two of us, we have a 190,000 gas water heater gas cooktop stove dual heat furnace when the temp drops to low for the heat pump we bump the thermostat for the radiant floor heat hence the big water heater, we like floor heat better than the furnace, we use less than one 500 gallon tank of gas a year.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The most volume that fits your budget is the best answer I can come up with. having said that 2 500 gallon tanks instead of 1 1000 gallon would be better in my opinion because their is much less chance of a leak leaving you fuel less


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

smaj100 said:


> Ok folks I need some advice on a propane tank.


You didn't say if you were thinking of buying or leasing the tank(s). We own our tanks and would not have it any other way.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

hiwall said:


> .
> He is Not using it for heating, only cooking and hot water both of which use very little.


Thanks. I missed that.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Both places I called rent the tanks, but one of them will allow for the tank to be buried even as a rental. While I like the idea of owning my own tank, this puts the maintenance for a buried tank on them as well as any annual or bi annual checks for the sacrificial anodes.

The floor plan is complete and spec'd awaiting final approval on the appraisal to begin construction. So adding an outdoor furnace or anything like that at this point is moot. The central heat / air is electric with a heat pump and the wood fireplace will be piped into the central trunk line so I can use the fan unit on the central to pipe the heat from the fp to the whole house as needed.

I will consider adding the water coils in the exhaust side of the hot box of the fireplace to help heat water as well as a passive solar heater to help heat the well water a bit before it hits the tank.

Fairly sure we will go with a 500 gall tank at this point buried for opsec and temp stability, and setup a bi monthly refill to keep it topped off and the fuel bill smaller instead of 1 huge fill. There is no minimum purchase when refilling from the company I contacted. Once we have been in the home a year or so we can make adjustments as needed. I'll always keep my 20lb and 100lb tanks full and nearby just in case.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

My only problem with renting a tank is you are locked into buying propane from the company you rent from.
Around here the price varies greatly from company to company.
Sometimes as much as .50 a gallon.
On the other hand tanks are not cheap.
I own mine so I can shop for the better deal.
After the propane tank exploded during a police shootout in the Seattle area last week a buried tank might be a good idea.
I have heard that a tank will not explode if shot and Mythbusters tried it and failed but according to the reports it happened.

During the gunfire, one shot hit a propane tank, causing it to explode and injure four of five officers involved in the incident.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2024121937_kentshootoutxml.html


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> the sacrificial anodes


What the heck is that? The only ones of those I ever heard of were in the water heater.
Sometimes you can buy a tank off Craigslist for waaaaay less than the dealer (who will also rent or sell you a used tank).


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

hiwall said:


> What the heck is that? The only ones of those I ever heard of were in the water heater.
> Sometimes you can buy a tank off Craigslist for waaaaay less than the dealer (who will also rent or sell you a used tank).


 "Cathodic protection is a procedure used to protect an object from corrosion by making it a cathode. To make a tank a cathode, you have to attach an anode to it. Both have to be in an electrolyte such as earth or water. To protect a propane tank, you would attach an anode consisting of a 17 pound bar of magnesium metal packed inside a cloth bag containing 28 pounds of conductive earth backfill with a wire that is attached to the magnesium and to the tank. The magnesium metal is a source of electrons for the iron atoms and it is from where d.c. current originates. As long as enough electrons flow from the magnesium through the wire and the connections to the tank, the tank will not corrode. At the same time, a small amount of direct current flows from the magnesium metal, through the earth to the tank. The current is less than one amp."

On boats they bolt magnesium bars to boat hulls to accomplish the same thing, these bags/bars are called sacrificial anodes.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks,smaj100. I have never dealt with any underground tanks.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I think they last about ten years and then need to be replaced.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Country Living you are correct the average is 10yrs, some areas require an inspection annually for (I'm guessing conductivity checks) or even bi-annually.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Check your area cause I know where I live 250-500 gallon propane tanks can be had for hardly nothing. I currently have a 250 gallon tank I can't give away if I tried. 


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