# Planning my retirement



## CdnMtlHd (Aug 4, 2009)

I am a 40-something guy with virtually no debt, no kids, no dependants, nothing holding me back. I have some vehicles, a house and RRSPs right now. I am hoping to retire at around 65. 

What should I do to make sure that I am ready to retire in about 25 years?


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Get yourself debt free and stay that way.

Figure out what you want your standard of living to be and the cost to live it.

I'd aim for 55 to 60 years old for retirement and settle for longer if needed.

Figuring you still have to pay taxes, utilities, insurance, food... a very modest living style may still require $20,000 per year. Multiply that by 25 years and you need at least $500,000 to get you through.

I see you're in Canada so I don't know the requirements or availability of retirement age benefits so YMMV.


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## CdnMtlHd (Aug 4, 2009)

One financial-planner told me that I need to have $1,000,000 worth of investments in order to retire comfortably. My debts are minimal right now, just a small amount of mortgage left and I needed a truck for some stuff around the yard, so, I bought a fairly inexpensive one to do the job. It will be paid off in about 9 months.

Other than that, I try to save all my money and stash it all into several different high-yield RRSP (Registered Retirement Savings Plans) with different banks. We also have something called a TFSA system which stands for a Tax Free Savings Account, but, it has limits on how much you can put in each year as a tax-free amount.

I don't have anything close to that million-dollar-mark worth of investments, or, even that half-million dollar worth of investments. I am just a working stiff, getting paid hourly and just trying to keep my money in my pocket.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

It sounds as if you are well on your way. The standard beans, bullets, and bandaids or "stuff". Cash, silver, and gold reserves would be of benefit. Prepare for changes, I was older than you are now when I got married. Build you skill sets, at forty you already have many skills and plenty of time to gather more.


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## CdnMtlHd (Aug 4, 2009)

I would like to get married again, but, after the first marriage went down the toilet (no kids involved), I don't expect that I will ever get married again.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I am not saying to prepare for marriage, I'm saying to prepare for change. I gave marriage as an example of a change in my life. Your financial planner has given you some good advice. I would say to expand on that with hard assets. Precious metals are a hedge against inflation and should be a part of every retirement plan. I'm not talking about some piece of paper that says, "Gold" on it but real silver or gold.

I was in Halifax in '98. A young man was expressing his desire for Canada to switch to the US Dollar. You probably remember when the Canadian Dollar took a dump. I told him that if I had cash that I would buy Canadian Dollars because I had seen this before and was confident that things would improve. Things change, sometimes for the better, sometimes not. 

Don't put all your cash into retirement accounts. I'm not sure how things are in Canada but here retirement accounts are near impossible to get into. Ready cash in the bank and at home is important. Eight months worth is a minimum. Once the house and car are paid off eight months worth of cash reserves is far less than it is now. Bank holiday, the power goes down, or for other reasons you could find yourself unable to access your credit cards or bank funds so keep some cash on hand. This ready cash helps you through any emergencies and protects your current assets from loss. This ready reserve is not for a holiday or new car, it is solely for when there is no other option.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

IMHO it is worth it to at least consider buying a chunk of productive farmland. I know of some very wealthy to average people who have been buying bits of farmland and renting them out for good money. Historically it has been a relatively safe store of wealth and steady stream of income. The prices are pretty high right now and interest rates are bound to go up, if that combines with a drop in commodity prices that has been predicted for some time now, it might be a great time to buy.
Everything you and others mentioned is great, just wanted to throw something out that is preparedness related yet people don't always consider.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I don't know about Canadian stuff. Be careful about saving cash, inflation could take all the value out of any savings account. One million dollars now may only be worth crap when you get to retirement age. With 20 years to go to retirement you may need 3-5 million to retire (assuming no financial collapse).

BTW I do expect a financial turmoil coming that could change everything.

I'm retired now, knowing what I know now and if I was your age I would save some cash but would buy gold every month and store it in a safe location. 50% gold and 50% in cash maybe the safe way to do it.

Learn how to invest your money and make your own decisions about your money.

I made some calculations and found that if I would have put my retirement savings into gold when I started saving (about 40 years ago) I would have been way ahead now. Tax savings would be a major benefit to gold over cash also.

Good luck!


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I would recommend investing in something you know & are willing to take the time to stay on top of. No one is more interested in you having money to retire on than you.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm only 23, but I invest 15% of my income in growth stock Mutual funds. Earning about 17% on them. I don't follow the ideas of precious metal investing, but I keep quiet and out of that argument here. We live in an unpredictable world as I see, so you can only go off past market performance.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> I'm only 23, but I invest 15% of my income in growth stock Mutual funds. Earning about 17% on them. I don't follow the ideas of precious metal investing, but I keep quiet and out of that argument here. We live in an unpredictable world as I see, so you can only go off past market performance.


When I was your age I felt the same way. Now I wish I had bought silver at $5. Precious metal is a hedge and a means of diversification. The old adage "don't put all your eggs in one basket" applies here. At 23 you can afford riskier investments than I can. It sounds like you have chosen well, congratulations.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

I agree - get rid of the debt, and then cash and PMs on hand, along with your normal saving tools (retirement plans)... only change up, is I would split the Gold with Silver - 40-60 ratio either way... Afterall, Silver has out performed Gold over the last 10 years, and Gold has out performed the stock markets.

I can also agree with real estate - IF you have it in you to be a landlord. My dad, who is in his 70's made his fortune with apartments, and buying houses for renters to buy on land contract. Today he is still doing it. For me, right after I quit college and went into IT, he bought a 16 unit one and put me in charge (and yes, I had to pay rent too - discounted) I learned real quick, I did not (at the time) have the desire to be a landlord...


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Caribou said:


> When I was your age I felt the same way. Now I wish I had bought silver at $5. Precious metal is a hedge and a means of diversification. The old adage "don't put all your eggs in one basket" applies here. At 23 you can afford riskier investments than I can. It sounds like you have chosen well, congratulations.


That would have been a great buy. And I think you're spot on about risk v age. Thank you.

I agreed that PM is a great hedge. Especially with our current political atmosphere. I justice can't "buy high" but I would bet prices are going up


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> That would have been a great buy. And I think you're spot on about risk v age. Thank you.
> 
> I agreed that PM is a great hedge. Especially with our current political atmosphere. I justice can't "buy high" but I would bet prices are going up


You can do anything you want, you just can't do everything you want. All you can do is roll the dice and take your chances. Silver was around $5 when I first considered buying but I was afraid it would go down, silly me. I also had the opportunity to buy when it was $50, boy was I smart not to purchase then. You just never know.

Then there was the venture into the stock market.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

I prep for financial retirement as aggressively as I prepare for disaster. For me, I need to prep in case nothing happens, as well as if it does.

Every bit of extra money that I make, other than bills, and prep supplies, goes into either the company 401k, after that's maxxed out, a Roth IRA or into an emergency fund. 

If your company offers a 401k, max it out if you can. After that, if you have extra funds, either prep or save in a mutual fund. Saving for "nothing happening" is as important to me as for SHTF.

You still have 20 years to go, and have make a pretty substantial nestegg with that amount of time given.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

WWhermit said:


> Every bit of extra money that I make, other than bills, and prep supplies, goes into either the company 401k, after that's maxxed out, a Roth IRA or into an emergency fund.
> 
> If your company offers a 401k, max it out if you can.


Due to tax advantages, that is typically not the best option. You should contribute to your 401K or 403B enough to take advantage of an employee match. Then, max out your Roth IRA and if anything is left, contribute more to your 401K.

I majored in finance... great education for an EMT eh? Haha


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> *Due to tax advantages, that is typically not the best option.* You should contribute to your 401K or 403B enough to take advantage of an employee match. Then, max out your Roth IRA and if anything is left, contribute more to your 401K.
> 
> I majored in finance... great education for an EMT eh? Haha


That can be true, and untrue. It depends on how much money your household brings in, and which tax bracket that puts you in. For my household, if we didn't contribute the max to our 401k's (which is pre-tax), we'd get killed in taxes by getting bumped up into the next tax bracket. But by taking 35k off of our taxable income, it keeps us of out that higher tier.

Also, depending on how much you make, you might not be able to contribute the full amount to a Roth. We are also in that situation.

The reason why I generally tell people to max out the 401k is because it's easiest, and takes the least discipline. I did, however, say contribute to both, if possible. 

Majored in finance, but is now an EMT? What happened?


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

WWhermit said:


> Majored in finance, but is now an EMT? What happened?


I took the job part time to go to school but got hooked on the job.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> I agreed that PM is a great hedge. Especially with our current political atmosphere. I justice can't "buy high" but I would bet prices are going up


Being younger - I am 41, so yes I have a few years on you...  you do have more opportunity to take risks, just being in the equities or fixed markets - whether that is through a trading account, 401K type retirement plan, IRA, etc.. is all a risk if you think about it.

Let's say you buy 1,000 shares of Google on the day of IPO - $85/share so $8500... today that venture would have a "perceived" valued at $784,430. However, imagine buying Facebook on opening for equal amount ($8500) - 223 shares... Today, it is at $28... So you would have lost $2,256 in "perceived" value.

The key word there is perceived, you still own the stock - you may have lost a perceived value for the stock, but you haven't lost the stock...

My point - the same is true for PMs... buying today at spot prices - may seem high in comparison to the last 10 years average cost... But, up or down - you still own the item in hand... If your on this site, then most likely you are preparing for something... almost everyone (myself included) are in the mindset of the next major event for the US will be some type of financial collapse - harder than the depression time frame. Gold and Silver - compared to Google Stocks, a Mutual fund, or a 401K is a world committee in comparison to a company that can go out of business. If you go back 30-40 years, and said GM was going to go bankrupt in 2008 if the government didn't buy them, most would laugh... So what is to say any company - Apple, Google, even Berkshire Hathaway... couldn't go belly up.

Spreading your investment is a wise strategy... Even though PMs are perceived to by high now, it would still be wise to have some on hand... Who knows, they perceived value to could go to $5,000 an ounce in 5 years... also you don't have to buy by the ounce... you could start at 1/8th for gold... 1 ounce for Silver is in the $30 range... so buying a few 1 ounces of silver isn't that huge of an issue...

Oh yeah... I had the opportunity for the Google @ $85 through a buddy @ Morgan... I passed, my dad bought... Although, I passed on FB too, and he bought... So at least I get 1 point for guessing right.


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## OHprepper (Feb 21, 2012)

the last time i played in the stock market i was in afghanistan at the time(good way to play witha years salary when you cant hold it) however this was in 2009....not the greatest year to play. i ended up breaking even.. a few of my buddies that had an MOS where they could stay and watch their money everyday made upwards of 10-15000 that year just off of googling how to speculate on the market. if i remember correctly they made a lot of money off of caterpillar.. and some off of the major auto manufacturers... on the other end of the spectrum i saw some guys lose everything they had... at least they were 20 yrs old.... could have been worse


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## Fossil (Jan 10, 2013)

My retirement plan is to work till I drop. No investments, no interest in such, no interest in anything the government has to offer. I owe nothing and pay cash for what little I need-been that way for thirty plus years. I raise enough food to take care of my needs with little supplemental goods from outside. Lots of barter over the years and worked for cash along the way. 
I have a dim view of three piece suits, politicians of any stripe, and society in general. This has worked adequately for a very long time. I suppose if push comes to shove you could eat those stock certificates and such...


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

This is a dangerous question to ask of anybody, really, but to a group of paranoids who think the end is nigh? Oh boy... That said... I would think you have to stay at least some % in the markets, maybe 50%. The markets can mean whatever you take it for, stocks, bonds, whatever. I read a lot of ZH http://www.zerohedge.com/ (Ugh, started using TOR with all the bells and whistles and nothing works right anymore, you should see what this page looks like!)and those guys are hardcore financial preppers in their own way. Remember that the stock market is ultimately gambling. Its at the top now and has been rising fast in the last few years, anyone who stayed away lost out majorly. If you have a 401k, max it out to get the match. Seems like this RRSP is similar to an IRA. I have one, and I am afraid for it ultimately, but I have to keep in mind that I am possibly quite wrong about everything. About the viability of the market and economic system overall, or that stocks always go up in the long run. I try to strike a balance. I have traditional stocks, some PHYS, and some high yield (most recent one I bought is paying 12+% right now, big fan of these things!)bond funds. (Ok I'll go into a little more details about those real quick to explain my thought process, and I have done this before in my IRA) XYZ pays 10+% yearly, in monthly increments. I like to start with at least enough so its buying itself one share a month with the dividends (always reinvest them, always unless youre older-I'm 42 {the answer is 42}). You can buy more on a monthly basis if you like, my IRA is online with a company that charges $4/trade, but with relatively limited options. The way I figure it, ceterus paribus, in 4 years it pays for itself, so you cash out the original shares, keeping the same amount you originally bought and forget about it and let it grow. You can scale this however you like-buy a ton of it up front, let it give you x amount of free shares, then cash out, whatever. For example, if I had bought 1000 shares of my most recent one ($8500) it would buy 10 shares of itself every month, so in less than a year you would have enough to cash out and then would be collecting enough divs to buy one share a month. The point is you can cash out whenever and keep the free shares and let them run. Ultimately, this is a pretty conservative strategy, except for the fact that these junk type bonds could crash at any time. I had this happen with my first one, but still have 40 free shares of it, the div was cut by 20%, but the price is up about 12% (NOT counting the divs)after about 5 years (it got crushed during the crisis)-but remember its all free so I'm not so concerned. Anyhoo... A prepper mindset makes one afraid of the markets by definition, but I cant let it totally determine my investing, or I would freak out and not own anything except a hoard of pm's. Now I'll just ramble with random (walks down wall st) thoughts... Any portfolio most have some pm's. There will be 'corrections' as with anything, and you have to accept them. House/land/farm seems like a good idea, but to my thinking, outside of major cities, these are not investments. They dont really appreciate when you take inflation and interest into account, but they provide a place to live and hopefully food, which you obviously need to live. I dont like gubt bonds for lots of reasons. I wont loan my money to the gubt unless theyre paying me 10+%, which I've never seen. I also have moral objections which should be obvious. Anyone keeping their money in the bank or under the mattress (outside of emergency money) is getting slaughtered by inflation. I cant imagine doing this unless you are so afraid of the markets that you are paralyzed by fear, in which case you are screwed anyway. I'd say you have a leg up with no dependents financially, but having a successful, smart, beautiful, caring woman with a damn good head on her shoulders to keep me grounded is a plus... If one is overly concerned with the viability of the economic system then you have to go with pm's. A financial collapse wont last forever unless theres a major catastrophe, and then it wont matter anyway, right? If you have sustainable means of supporting yourself, get a house with enough land where you could grow/raise food if you are so inclined. In conclusion...hah, a conclusion to what, that rambling mess? Good luck! Wow, I cant even seem to format this correctly, I'll have to get out of TOR... Sorry!


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> This is a dangerous question to ask of anybody, really, but to a group of paranoids who think the end is nigh? Oh boy... That said... I would think you have to stay at least some % in the markets, maybe 50%. The markets can mean whatever you take it for, stocks, bonds, whatever. I read a lot of ZH http://www.zerohedge.com/ (Ugh, started using TOR with all the bells and whistles and nothing works right anymore, you should see what this page looks like!)and those guys are hardcore financial preppers in their own way. Remember that the stock market is ultimately gambling. Its at the top now and has been rising fast in the last few years, anyone who stayed away lost out majorly. If you have a 401k, max it out to get the match. Seems like this RRSP is similar to an IRA. I have one, and I am afraid for it ultimately, but I have to keep in mind that I am possibly quite wrong about everything. About the viability of the market and economic system overall, or that stocks always go up in the long run. I try to strike a balance. I have traditional stocks, some PHYS, and some high yield (most recent one I bought is paying 12+% right now, big fan of these things!)bond funds. (Ok I'll go into a little more details about those real quick to explain my thought process, and I have done this before in my IRA) XYZ pays 10+% yearly, in monthly increments. I like to start with at least enough so its buying itself one share a month with the dividends (always reinvest them, always unless youre older-I'm 42 {the answer is 42}). You can buy more on a monthly basis if you like, my IRA is online with a company that charges $4/trade, but with relatively limited options. The way I figure it, ceterus paribus, in 4 years it pays for itself, so you cash out the original shares, keeping the same amount you originally bought and forget about it and let it grow. You can scale this however you like-buy a ton of it up front, let it give you x amount of free shares, then cash out, whatever. For example, if I had bought 1000 shares of my most recent one ($8500) it would buy 10 shares of itself every month, so in less than a year you would have enough to cash out and then would be collecting enough divs to buy one share a month. The point is you can cash out whenever and keep the free shares and let them run. Ultimately, this is a pretty conservative strategy, except for the fact that these junk type bonds could crash at any time. I had this happen with my first one, but still have 40 free shares of it, the div was cut by 20%, but the price is up about 12% (NOT counting the divs)after about 5 years (it got crushed during the crisis)-but remember its all free so I'm not so concerned. Anyhoo... A prepper mindset makes one afraid of the markets by definition, but I cant let it totally determine my investing, or I would freak out and not own anything except a hoard of pm's. Now I'll just ramble with random (walks down wall st) thoughts... Any portfolio most have some pm's. There will be 'corrections' as with anything, and you have to accept them. House/land/farm seems like a good idea, but to my thinking, outside of major cities, these are not investments. They dont really appreciate when you take inflation and interest into account, but they provide a place to live and hopefully food, which you obviously need to live. I dont like gubt bonds for lots of reasons. I wont loan my money to the gubt unless theyre paying me 10+%, which I've never seen. I also have moral objections which should be obvious. Anyone keeping their money in the bank or under the mattress (outside of emergency money) is getting slaughtered by inflation. I cant imagine doing this unless you are so afraid of the markets that you are paralyzed by fear, in which case you are screwed anyway. I'd say you have a leg up with no dependents financially, but having a successful, smart, beautiful, caring woman with a damn good head on her shoulders to keep me grounded is a plus... If one is overly concerned with the viability of the economic system then you have to go with pm's. A financial collapse wont last forever unless theres a major catastrophe, and then it wont matter anyway, right? If you have sustainable means of supporting yourself, get a house with enough land where you could grow/raise food if you are so inclined. In conclusion...hah, a conclusion to what, that rambling mess? Good luck! Wow, I cant even seem to format this correctly, I'll have to get out of TOR... Sorry!


Some great advice there.... By the way. Who is paranoid?! I had my tin hat one when I answered to make sure I got a clear signal and no interfering thoughts.... Roflmao!


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

All this talk about ira and 401k and other safe ways to save. Ppl have mentioned buying gold and silver as a hedge. I have something to point out: with the coming turmoils, are you going to eat your money and live? Can you digest gold and silver and survive? My point being: this nation is in a downward spiral and paper money, hell, currency of any kind is probly going to be one of the first casuaties when the shtf. Get debt free, have half a years wages in whatever type of currency, and put the rest into hard merchandise. Done wisely, you will make out like a bandit when the shtf and afterwards. Remember the basics: food shelter medical defense defense defense. There will be millions and millions of desperate starving ppl out there who wont hesitate to kill you and take everything you had.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

seanallen said:


> All this talk about ira and 401k and other safe ways to save. Ppl have mentioned buying gold and silver as a hedge. I have something to point out: with the coming turmoils, are you going to eat your money and live? Can you digest gold and silver and survive? My point being: this nation is in a downward spiral and paper money, hell, currency of any kind is probly going to be one of the first casuaties when the shtf. Get debt free, have half a years wages in whatever type of currency, and put the rest into hard merchandise. Done wisely, you will make out like a bandit when the shtf and afterwards. Remember the basics: food shelter medical defense defense defense. There will be millions and millions of desperate starving ppl out there who wont hesitate to kill you and take everything you had.


Yes, you are correct. With the rising prices, I have not been putting money in savings as normal, but into what we use every day or every week or even every month. With my retirement being in 2 years it just makes sense. Less money and higher prices are in my future.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Im thinking like this: barter is probly going to be the outcome. Make sure,if possible, you have a lifetime supply of dehydrated food on hand for you and your immediate family. This can be done somewhere around 50 - 60 grand. This will be your largest prep cash outlay by far, but the most critical. Then you get a well drilled right next to your house and install a manual pump on it. Frame a small addition around it, accesible only from the INTERIOR of the house. Water: check. Have vitamins for 3times the amount of ppl in your group. Big barter item. Same with medical, clothing, toiletries, and weaponry. 
I mention all this stuff because you dont want to just survive after shtf, you want to THRIVE. When you are the only thing between a persons death by starvation or exposure and their living, if you are dealing from a position of strength you can start the much needed process of bartering. Im not saying be a coldhearted opportunistic bastard. Save a kids life if you can. What im saying is the process of bartering as currency is almost a dead art right now, and its going to be up to us long term thinking prepper types to get this nations' commerce wheels moving again.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

seanallen, I think you make some really good points but there are some other perspectives too. Once you have your basic level of food and supplies stocked there are other factors to consider.

You mention defense is a major priority, in most situations an individual's best defense against a government or a government like entity is wealth, and specifically wealth that can not be controlled by them(fiat currency). While our governments today are so civilizedthey will take your property, be it land or what have you if you fail to pay your "fair share". In less "developed" societies it is much less veiled, you pay it willingly or they take it. Many people have lost everything because they could not pay their taxes, see the great depression for example. 
So if we look at freeze dried food for example it is indeed a form of wealth just as gold is. What is the likelihood that food would be confiscated in a shtf event? Historically people have had their homes searched and been declared "hoarders" on many occasions, their food was confiscated. What about as a barter item, it could be very good but there will be many situations where it is not, we for instance have thousands of pounds of beef, chicken, eggs, fresh vegetables and herbs, tons of grains, honey and the ability to produce all these indefinitely. I have only used a tiny amount of freeze dried foods when weight was a serious issue and even in those situations I no longer use it. How many people choose to eat freeze dried foods today, not in the prepper community, that will not change in the shtf, people will not choose freeze dried over fresh. I and many others like me would look for things like gold as a medium of exchange just like people always have. I will and do accept silver and gold in exchange for food and resources. Also if you have to barter with freeze dried foods what will that tell others about your situation?


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Good points all, Cowboy. The freeze dried isnt for barter, its for survival AFTER shtf and your place has been ransacked and searched and nothing abnormal found. I certainly wouldnt have seceral pallets of fdf sitting around the house in plain sight. My best guess is our gvt as we know it isnt going to survive more than a few years past shtf. After that period of time, its up in the air as to what comes next. 
In shtf situ, im not worried about a currency medium. If i cant shoot it, wear it, eat it, or f... It, then i dont want it. Js...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

What about land? You can grow stuff to eat, wear, ride, and even shoot if you want  
I suppose if you really wanted to you could also f, no, stop, over the line


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Ok. After re-reading my last post i think it has a flippant shallow tone that i certainly wasnt meaning to send out. 
What im trying to say is that in a shtf situ, the only things that might be worth ANYTHING are the basics of life. Freeze drieds give you that w no muss no fuss no electrical dependence nothing. They last for DECADES. They can be cached just about anywhere. Keeping a half years wages on hand gives you the APPEARANCE of being a slightly better off than average joe w/o attracting undue attention to yourself. In all things appear average. Keep your preps stashed and cached. 
Do you SERIOUSLY think youre going to be allowed to keep your fresh beef and veggies and stuff? Really? Once the gvt sees you have these, they will be taken and if you protest you will be sent to a Fema camp. Best to let them have most or all of what you LET them find. Later, after they have raped the lands around, you will be forgotten and then the survival/thrival wheels can start turning. At first, right after shtf, low profile or no profile is best. Remember: millions will die off.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

In most situations throughout history farmers have been well protected, for instance when they were finding food hoarders during WWII we had tons of food on our farm, were exempt from the draft etc.
Obviously you have to plan for all contingencies if possible but history says being a refuge with a cache of food is much more dangerous than having a piece of land with the ability to defend it and pay the piper.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I think people make a mistake when they ignore history, how many times have landless people been better off than those who owned and operated large tracts of productive land. In the worst possible scenario they could only be reduced to the level of those without land to begin with.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Very very true, Cowboy. Land is a great commodity. Im on my own 8 acres, 5 of which can be productive. Paid for, thank God.!!! 
Im not dissing farming. Not at all. It should go w/o saying that productive farms will rise to the top of heap of valuable commodities post shtf. That reinforces my earlier point: the basics will be pure gold. Post shtf is going to be some crazy times, to say the least. I have this rock solid gut feeling that fdf will be the insurance that keep my family alive and reasonably healthy will millions of others starve. The trick will be to maintain an appearance of malnutrition so others dont become suspicious. And strict silence. When the confiscatory raids begin, show only what a normal person might have. Everything else stashed and cached. Maybe even allow a couple of obvious caches so they can be convinced they found ALL your stuff. Allow a couple of cheapo single shot guns to be taken. All in the name of deception, of course. 
When you have a couple of companies of armed troops sitting in the front yard of your obviously well stocked and productive farm, they wont give a damn about your civil or constitutional rights. Best let them take what they can find.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

No one really knows what will happen in a shtf event, all we have to go on is human history and guesswork. The one thing that is assured is that situations will NOT be the same everywhere if the government collapses. Obviously no one should put all their eggs in one basket, that is the most important thing.


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