# Basement Growing



## Halfway

For those so inclined and of the mindset to produce their own as I am trying to do, here is a link to my compliment to raised bed and container gardening. It is allowing production through the winter as well.

It also gives me yet another project to expend energy on and to learn another skill set. The principles may come in handy as far as size, scale, and scope.

Some family and friends asked me to provide updates, so I figured this was the easiest way to do it with photos and video as well as updates. Also serves as a journal.

Frugal Hydroponics


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## Halfway

The above photo was taken on November 27th. This is after many harvests which have kept it and the basil trimmed back. 

We are at day 27 days (in the photo, 36 days as of today) in the ebb and flow system and this has produced many salads and BLTs. Probably $10 to $15 in lettuce. We have used several batches of basil and have quite a bit in the freezer as well.

I am building 2 DWC systems to allow continuous harvests of lettuce. I'll post when I get it up and running both here and on the blog.

Thanks for all the input from many folks....this first run has been exceptional in all regards and I learned and confirmed alot!


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## Concerned_ Citizen

I love me some hydroponics......easy to make and cheap.....get some lights and your growing all year long!


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## kyfarmer

Smart grid will say ya using to much juice and cut ya back. Knock on the door at 4 AM, busted illegal food growing operation. It's for your own safety of course. Not yet but soon so keep any growing operation under ya hat, just in case. I do like hydroponics and it works, for i used it 30 years ago and believe me it worked really good. :beercheer:


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## pdx210

not knocking it but nutrition and time wise lettuce is not a good choice to grow.
sprouts are where it's at. mung bean sprouts, alfalfa, clover, broccoli, all will provide you with better nutritional value, most with less light, water and harvest much faster some as little as 2 days

Brassica Sprout Central


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## alanz

kyfarmer said:


> Smart grid will say ya using to much juice and cut ya back. Knock on the door at 4 AM, busted illegal food growing operation. It's for your own safety of course. Not yet but soon so keep any growing operation under ya hat, just in case. I do like hydroponics and it works, for i used it 30 years ago and believe me it worked really good. :beercheer:


 I hadn't thought of that.


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## Halfway

Concerned_ Citizen said:


> I love me some hydroponics......easy to make and cheap.....get some lights and your growing all year long!


"cheap" is key.

And yes sprouts are great as well.


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## Halfway

Here is the newest system I built. This is as about as cheap and simple as it gets and still produces results far superior to soil.






This will allow a fully rotational crop to keep us in greens year round!!


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## kyfarmer

That is a neat little system, looks like it works good to.


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## Halfway

kyfarmer said:


> That is a neat little system, looks like it works good to.


We will find out very soon. I have rosemary, thyme, basil, cilantro, and spearmint germinating. Once germinated, they will spend about 7 days under the lights growing roots and then will be transplanted into the DWC. If they act like they did in the ebb and flow system, we will see some explosive growth in the first 10 days.


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## Halfway

*Cheap and Efficient Lighting*



Here is the setup for the light system I use for starting veggies in the spring and for growing hydroponically throughout the winter.

The lights are covering the ebb and flow hydroponic system growing lettuce in this photo.


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## bunkerbob

Very nice setup, I just do not have enough extra power to accommodate. I'm presently using the blue/red 12vdc LEDs, seems to work so far in the 'pit'.


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## BasecampUSA

bunkerbob said:


> Very nice setup, I just do not have enough extra power to accommodate. I'm presently using the blue/red 12vdc LEDs, seems to work so far in *the 'pit'*.


Hehehe... bunkerbob!

The PIT? 

...conjures up an old film of the 50's 





(modern version)

I call mine "the cave"... but there are no bats 

- Basey

ps... how bout shrooms?


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## Halfway

bunkerbob said:


> Very nice setup, I just do not have enough extra power to accommodate. I'm presently using the blue/red 12vdc LEDs, seems to work so far in the 'pit'.


Can you elaborate on the LEDs? How much you are growing, number of LEDs, etc? Wave of the future for sure!


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## bunkerbob

This is what I purchased... 225 LED GROW LIGHT PANEL RED BLUE HYDROPONIC LAMP 12V - eBay (item 300502990112 end time Jan-08-11 18:24:04 PST) I have a begonia, ivy and potatoes growing right now on a timer 8am to 5pm. I have tried mushrooms from a kit, $50 and about 25 mushrooms, hum! kinda expensive, I may try getting the spore mycelium and making my own beds.


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## Halfway

Bob, how would you rate that grow light? Is it working well and how far from the plants do you need to have it? I would be curious to see the potatoes.

Thanks!


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## The_Blob

bunkerbob said:


> This is what I purchased... 225 LED GROW LIGHT PANEL RED BLUE HYDROPONIC LAMP 12V - eBay (item 300502990112 end time Jan-08-11 18:24:04 PST) I have a begonia, ivy and potatoes growing right now on a timer 8am to 5pm. I have tried mushrooms from a kit, $50 and about 25 mushrooms, hum! kinda expensive, I may try getting the spore mycelium and making my own beds.


saw this while trying to answer my own question about mushroom lighting:

Colonizing substrate should be kept in dark to make sure the substrate doesn't pin prematurely. Fully colonized substrate should be introduced to light to initiate pinning - light "tells" the substrate that the conditions are right for forming fruit bodies (light is only one of the factors though, the others are lack of uncolonized substate, drop in temperature and lower CO2 levels).

Only a dim light is needed, anything too bright or warm will harm the cakes. A fluorescent lamp or indirect sunlight is plenty of light. But basically any kind of visible light will do. Only a few hours of light per day is all that is needed, 10 hours is overkill. ( the book Mushroom Cultivator states that 8-10 hours of light is recommended, but the experience shows that much less is sufficient). A source with a wide spectrum of light, especially containing lots of bluish light (natural daylight or white fluorescent lights are very good examples of light with lots of blue) is best, but a low wattage incandescent light (25 watts is plenty) not too close to the colony will work well too. Also the use of x-mass lights has been reported successful.
-----------------------------------------------------------

I *love* shrooms (and want to grow as opposed to gathering them) but I'm the only one in the house that does


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## bunkerbob

Just between you and me, and well I guess everyone else on the forum to, these are for those entrepreneurial special cigarette folks that grow their own, the house plants are thriving and the potatoes are just popping up. I added a full spectrum CF bulb because it is a bit chilli down there right now.


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## Halfway

A positive "side benefit" of those "entrepeneurs" is the advancement of lighting tech which makes it easier for all of us to grow better starts and crops indoors.

There is so much "noise" in the LED marketing world that it is hard to decipher quality products and actual effectiveness beyond bold claims. I believe LED are the future, or at least an offshoot of LED technology. Unfortunately, it is stil soct prohibitive, but the market is flooded with cheap, low-quality LEDs to further muddy the waters.

I continue to get mixed reviews in my searches.


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## bunkerbob

The_Blob said:


> saw this while trying to answer my own question about mushroom lighting:
> 
> Colonizing substrate should be kept in dark to make sure the substrate doesn't pin prematurely. Fully colonized substrate should be introduced to light to initiate pinning - light "tells" the substrate that the conditions are right for forming fruit bodies (light is only one of the factors though, the others are lack of uncolonized substate, drop in temperature and lower CO2 levels).
> 
> Only a dim light is needed, anything too bright or warm will harm the cakes. A fluorescent lamp or indirect sunlight is plenty of light. But basically any kind of visible light will do. Only a few hours of light per day is all that is needed, 10 hours is overkill. ( the book Mushroom Cultivator states that 8-10 hours of light is recommended, but the experience shows that much less is sufficient). A source with a wide spectrum of light, especially containing lots of bluish light (natural daylight or white fluorescent lights are very good examples of light with lots of blue) is best, but a low wattage incandescent light (25 watts is plenty) not too close to the colony will work well too. Also the use of x-mass lights has been reported successful.
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I *love* shrooms (and want to grow as opposed to gathering them) but I'm the only one in the house that does


I don't have a light over the white button mushrooms until they have matured, then I put a UV bulb on them, this way they produce more vit D.


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## Woody

I am currently experimenting with LED lighting for indoor winter crops. No, no special terbaccy here only edibles. I did learn and research them on those sites though! They are the only places that were doing side by side comparisons with HID, LED and fluorescent lighting. They also compare results from hydro, soil and soilless grows as well as organic and non-organic fertilizers. Very informative and some impressive results, if you are into that sort of thing.

I have several 4’ HO T5 fixtures with ‘blue’ bulbs for starts. These have been fantastic and give a nice looking healthy plant to put out when the weather warms. I bought 2 - 90 watt ‘Tri-band’ UFO style fixtures from a local hydroponics store a few months ago. They were reported to give the footprint and results of a 400 watt HID light. Yeah right. After talking to the hydro store guys they did say I could do a solid 2’ x 2’ area with some light into a 3’ x 3’ area. The T5’s are in a 2’ x 4’ area and there are 8 bulbs, that is 150 watts to cover that area (at 54 watts per bulb). So, only a 50 watt cost saving unless I can get some productive growth from that larger area. 

Anyway, rigged my 2’ x 6’ table with the LED’s and have room at the end for a couple 2’ fixtures too. Started lettuce, (simpson), spinach, radishes and carrots so far. With the lights at 12” I get a solid 2’ x 2’ coverage but it burned the sprouts. Live and learn, move them to 24” and go from there. At that height I get a good 36” or better full coverage. Full coverage meaning the individual lights blend and I do not get any areas of only red or only blue coverage. On a fun note, the shadow of your hand throws blue, red and grey shadows, kind of psychedelic. And these lights are mighty bright, I keep wrap-around sunglasses and put them on before entering the room. I can last for a bit w/out them but it takes a few minutes for you to regain your vision after leaving and entering normal white light. So far all plants look fantastic. I’m getting very compact growth, no stretching at all. I would compare it to the T5’s at 1” above the plants. I do believe I could grow in a 3’ x 3’ area, possibly larger with lettuce and such at the perimeter.

I actually was so impressed with the results I ordered (and am soon expecting!) a 240 watt (60 - 3 watt LED’s + fans) fixture from a higher end specialty manufacturer. One that was tested on the other sites and gave very impressive results. I would love to harvest from mature tomato and peppers inside and these higher end LED’s are reported to give me the penetration required for taller plants. Again, results taken from the alternative smoking sites. We’ll see once it gets here and I set it up.


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## Halfway

Woody said:


> I actually was so impressed with the results I ordered (and am soon expecting!) a 240 watt (60 - 3 watt LED's + fans) fixture from a higher end specialty manufacturer. One that was tested on the other sites and gave very impressive results. I would love to harvest from mature tomato and peppers inside and these higher end LED's are reported to give me the penetration required for taller plants.


Woody, I would love to hear the results of the tomato and pepper grow. The lighting is keeping me from these at this point, because of cost and heat related additional costs. I want to keep this operation cost neutral or or even positive if possible.

Thanks.


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## vn6869

Hope I'm not too far off topic, 
But a friend of mine grows his fish in a couple of tanks in his basement.
Tilapia I believe. 

Just thought that was unique.


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## bunkerbob

Woody said:


> I am currently experimenting with LED lighting for indoor winter crops. No, no special terbaccy here only edibles. I did learn and research them on those sites though! They are the only places that were doing side by side comparisons with HID, LED and fluorescent lighting. They also compare results from hydro, soil and soilless grows as well as organic and non-organic fertilizers. Very informative and some impressive results, if you are into that sort of thing.
> 
> I have several 4' HO T5 fixtures with 'blue' bulbs for starts. These have been fantastic and give a nice looking healthy plant to put out when the weather warms. I bought 2 - 90 watt 'Tri-band' UFO style fixtures from a local hydroponics store a few months ago. They were reported to give the footprint and results of a 400 watt HID light. Yeah right. After talking to the hydro store guys they did say I could do a solid 2' x 2' area with some light into a 3' x 3' area. The T5's are in a 2' x 4' area and there are 8 bulbs, that is 150 watts to cover that area (at 54 watts per bulb). So, only a 50 watt cost saving unless I can get some productive growth from that larger area.
> 
> Anyway, rigged my 2' x 6' table with the LED's and have room at the end for a couple 2' fixtures too. Started lettuce, (simpson), spinach, radishes and carrots so far. With the lights at 12" I get a solid 2' x 2' coverage but it burned the sprouts. Live and learn, move them to 24" and go from there. At that height I get a good 36" or better full coverage. Full coverage meaning the individual lights blend and I do not get any areas of only red or only blue coverage. On a fun note, the shadow of your hand throws blue, red and grey shadows, kind of psychedelic. And these lights are mighty bright, I keep wrap-around sunglasses and put them on before entering the room. I can last for a bit w/out them but it takes a few minutes for you to regain your vision after leaving and entering normal white light. So far all plants look fantastic. I'm getting very compact growth, no stretching at all. I would compare it to the T5's at 1" above the plants. I do believe I could grow in a 3' x 3' area, possibly larger with lettuce and such at the perimeter.
> 
> I actually was so impressed with the results I ordered (and am soon expecting!) a 240 watt (60 - 3 watt LED's + fans) fixture from a higher end specialty manufacturer. One that was tested on the other sites and gave very impressive results. I would love to harvest from mature tomato and peppers inside and these higher end LED's are reported to give me the penetration required for taller plants. Again, results taken from the alternative smoking sites. We'll see once it gets here and I set it up.


Unfortunately these higher powered light units are not practical for me, as some of you know I am off the grid and power is somewhat limited. The goal is to aquire the correct type that are battery operated to be used in the 'pit' when battery power is all there is. 
The first photo is the LED grow light only, the second is with the full spectrum CFL added.


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## Halfway

I bet that red hue adds some enchantment to the bunker!


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## BadgeBunny

Halfway said:


> I bet that red hue adds some enchantment to the bunker!


Ambiance ... lol 

On a completely unrelated note ... one of my goals this year is to learn how to post pictures ... so you guys won't think I am some armchair commando!


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## Halfway

BadgeBunny said:


> Ambiance ... lol
> 
> On a completely unrelated note ... one of my goals this year is to learn how to post pictures ... so you guys won't think I am some armchair commando!


setup an accont with imageshack. too easy. You may become a photo junky, so be advised!!


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## Jason

BadgeBunny-try starting an album under the all albums heading at the top of the page. Also, you can upload pics right from your computer. Not sure of the advantages of uploading to another site first...Input?


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## Halfway

*Deep Water Culture*




This is my newest basement growing system.

Low maintenance, cheap, easy to build, and will produce much faster than soil.

This will become my primary continuous lettuce producer. Parts and cost are posted to the blog as are the reasons for choosing this type of system.

Running cost is less than $5 a month.


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## The_Blob

Halfway said:


> This is my newest basement growing system.
> 
> Low maintenance, cheap, easy to build, and will produce much faster than soil.
> 
> This will become my primary continuous lettuce producer. Parts and cost are posted to the blog as are the reasons for choosing this type of system.
> 
> Running cost is less than $5 a month.


very nice... how much FOOD do you get for that $5 tho?... not being a smart a$$, I really want to know, because I've just started my fumblings but I don't want to 'pee into the wind' if I'm better served doing something else :dunno:


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## The_Blob

vn6869 said:


> Hope I'm not too far off topic,
> But a friend of mine grows his fish in a couple of tanks in his basement.
> Tilapia I believe.
> 
> Just thought that was unique.


Tilapia are an excellent low-maintenance fish to 'farm', I've assisted in doing it with a neighbor's small pond

here's a small file you might find interesting/informative

http://aqua.ucdavis.edu/DatabaseRoot/pdf/280FS.PDF


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## Woody

Return depends on what you plan to grow and how much light you can afford to throw at it. For me it is as much about keeping the fingernails dirty over the winter as having fresh veggies available. So the cost in my case is split between hobby, mental health and food value.

Basic electricity cost calculations are:

18 hrs light/day or 540 hours of light per month (18 hrs/day x 30 days). . I suppose you could cut the light to 12 or 14 hours a day to save a little.

At 18 hours/day each 100 watts at $.10 per KWH (your rate may vary) is $5.40/month
Using a 4’ - 2-bulb T5 (High output fluorescent) (108 watts) it will give you about 4 sq ft of growing area (1’ x 4’). Effective penetration range is maybe 10” to 12” so no really tall plants.

400 watts would be $21.60/month.
Using a 400 watt HID (High Intensity Discharge light) will give you about 16 sq ft growing area (4’ x 4’). Effective penetration range is 2’ to 3’ so you could have a 4’ tall plant live and produce.

Planning is also important, do you plan on all root crops and greens (low growing) or want tomatoes and such that will grow a few feet tall? If a mix of both perhaps two light systems are in order, HID or LED (Light Emitting Diode) for tall and T5 for low ones.

Next take into consideration growth time, one month before start of harvest for spinach, radishes and such. 3 months or so for tomatoes, peppers and all. For the 400 watt light it will cost roughly $60.00 before you pick the first fruit. Of course, if you are using the one light for everything you should have harvested something else in this time to offset costs.

Now, tomatoes are $3 to $4 a pound here, (and delicious truck ripened ones at that!). Green peppers $3 or so each, Spinach and lettuce are $2 to $3 a bunch, carrots $1.50 pound… And prices are rising little by little with each weekly visit to the produce section! It isn’t going to be a money making operation and save me a ton of cash but isn’t going to be a total loser in the end… Well, except for initial cost of lighting that is. But that is a long term investment to me and the initial cost is paid back in terms of years not months. 

As far as my current garden goes, radishes are doing great, maybe a week away from first harvest. Spinach and lettuce seem to be going pretty slow, only a few leaves so far and carrots are on target as they always start slow. I moved one container of each under the new LED and got mixed results; it is going to have a learning curve. The carrots and spinach loved it at 2’ above the plants. I fried the radishes and lettuce, tops all turned yellow from the light. The light is not hot, I can hold my hand 2” from the light and not feel real warm so it is not heat burn. I was told the spectrums were specifically designed for another crop so some vegetables might not be able to adjust to the new spectrums. It was recommended to try starting all plants under the light. Kind of like hardening off plants started indoors, they cannot take full sun right away and need to be gradually adjusted to the more intense light. So it is at 3’ above the plants and nothing seems to be suffering from the added distance between light and plants. It is not as intensely bright as the UFO lights or an HID light, I can actually go in the room without sunglasses on. I believe this is due to the spectrums being specific, not wide like a regular light. But that is a good thing, no wasted electricity on spectrums of light that are not being used. Another month and I will be starting outside plants!!!

Forgot to add, the new LED light throws a purplish light. Very easy to get used to and easy to adjust back to house lighting after leaving the room. Not like the more inexpensive UFo or HID lights that are very intensely bright.


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## Halfway

The_Blob said:


> very nice... how much FOOD do you get for that $5 tho?... not being a smart a$$, I really want to know, because I've just started my fumblings but I don't want to 'pee into the wind' if I'm better served doing something else :dunno:


Every 2 days we harvest 2 large salads. Much better than iceburg. We have continuous access to lettuce for sandwiches etc.

We cal'c it saves us about 20-30 a month. We eat more now, so it is healthier, but since lettuce doesn't store very long, this is worth it.

I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't cost neutral or better. I prefer this skill / hobby to be net positive as opposed to the pricier hobbies (bass fishing/hunting/ATVs etc.).

HOWEVER.....I cannot make the numbers work for tomatoes or peppers. I would need different lights and the additional electric costs would put it out of reach. I salute those that make it work, but I save those for the free energy of the sun.

This DWC is about as cheap as it gets. I am anxiously awaiting the results over the next month.


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## Halfway

Update Video indoor lettuce grow and harvest






Here is a video I shot last night of both the ebb and flow and DWC systems in operation and their results and progress so far. Under my YOUTUBE channel "misterhalfwaythere1" I have posted several videos on indoor growing and I may expand this to the springtime "starts" germination and propagation. 

This has been exceptionally productive. My next move will be further expansion to increase our produce production.

I also updated the blog with notes on the system design and build. It has been fun!!


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## Halfway

Here is the lettuce on 13 Feb. We have harvested 3 large salads since. This deep water culture system is the easiest to build and maintain by far.

A simple airstone and airpump is all it takes. We left it alone for 7 days while on a trip and it did very well since it cannot run dry. I did have to raise the lights when we got home as it grew a solid 2 inches!!

Love the fresh greens. Can't wait to get out under the sun for the raised beds and container gardens.


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