# Protecting Livestock



## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Just wondering, in a SHTF event, how would you protect your livestock? The two scenarios I am thinking of are A.) The starving hordes are decending (doubtful it would be more than hungry neighbors or city straggles that somehow made the trek to my place, not overwhelming numbers), or B.) The powers that be want to seize them. I realize that poultry and goats could be moved somewhere more secluded, but what about cows? And for me, my horses. Multi purpose food and transportation, hauling logs, plowing, I need them. I have 40 acres of pasture land to protect, it would be tough to guard that with just myself and hubby. How far would the government go? How do you make one 1500lb animal, let alone a dozen 'disappear'? Can't hide their body heat. I have supplies, but in an extended event, I'd really like to remain self sufficient and be able to replenish my food stores. There are only so many calories in veggies, and I worry the local game populations would be stripped bare. Thoughts?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

My plan as far as the starving hordes go is to shut down the road me and my neighbors live on and then move livestock in to the middle area where they would be within our perimeter and therefore protected as long as we are properly securing our perimeter. As for from the Govt. you won't be no way you kill em and dry em for storage or be prepared to fight for em or lose em. Just keep in mind they are gonna have the same security issues wherever they move them to. When I get hungry I WILL go get some beef. Most likely they won't come take them anyway if they do they will take you with them as the Govt doens't want to have to raise the beef they want you to raise it and then they will come take "the fair share" Now if you put em in a barn it's gonna be hard for em to tell if you have ten or 50 in there. Sooooo well you tell em whatcha want.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Get more ammo.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

Is a very good question and one I have thought about for years. I still do not have a good answer so what I have done is create a backup plan. Essentially I have been planting the woods around may farm with enough nut and fruit trees so that if my livestock were stolen from me I could still feed myself. The benefit of improving the woods is that most folks would not even recognize the trees as being food...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Great topic!
Have done a lot of reading and talking to people who had to deal with this in the past. I don't want to give away all my secrets for obvious reasons but there is lots you can do.
First, your scenario of just a 40 acre pasture makes it difficult to hide the animals so it would probably be best to focus on security and control. My techniques are a bit different because we have thousands of acres of woods and grass to deal with/use.
If at all possible having more than just a typical barbwire fence makes trespassing a lot more difficult, and separates the generally law abiding people who are just tempted from the true bad guys. It is not uncommon to see "buffalo or elk" fencing around here, drill stem is commonly used for the structure as well, electricity is also useful 
Then it starts to become a bit more labour intensive, it is much easier to defend the animals if they are in a smaller area so if you can lock them up in the yard/barn every night they will be much safer. This can be easier if you have their source of water in the yard otherwise you might need a treat to keep them coming when you call.

In terms of actually hiding the animals there are many ways, for instance the cattle crossing culverts that are "typically"  installed under roads can become a very good shelter and hiding spot. Or if you need to keep moving them camo tarps can make a decent blind from the air. Just seeing their thermal imprint is not enough, there are a lot of animals out in the bush, many in small herds, at least here. Barns, as mentioned are great, they were considered a necessity in many places for security reasons. But livestock can be held in other structures that are much less obvious such as old or new log buildings, shops, containers, pretty much any structure.

People have kept livestock for a long time and security was often an issue so there were a lot of strategies developed to counteract the threats.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Livestock guardian dogs or other breeds can be trained to not allow people in a pasture though this often is not the case today, the barking can be used to alert you as well.


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## chick (Mar 25, 2012)

Horses do very well out on their own and don't need extra feed unless you're working them hard.

OTOH it depends on your location and how much time and effort you want to put out to feed your other livestock. Some places (like mine) have snow for at least 4-5 months of the year which makes it tougher to find feed.

You might be able to hide a few head of cattle, in warmer months they can be hidden in remote pastures but they could also fall prey to predators or to rustling even if they're checked on periodically. In winter the cattle need a good windbreak and an area where they can be protected without crowding. They can survive on snow instead of water but they still need to have feed available and that's where the problem of keeping their location hidden arises....and that's a big *IF* you still have the means to produce food for them.

I wouldn't plan on keeping cattle for long! Don't depend on wildlife to be around either because they'll be depleted fast enough too unless you're in an extremely remote area....like Alaska

Guard dogs are good for keeping four legged predators away but are no match for a bullet so don't depend on them to protect the herd either.

(_Just my 2 cents worth_  )


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Yes, my horses and cows are almost exclusively grazers in the pasture. The only time they ever really see grain is on long camping/packing trips where they are ridden all day every day. I think they could get by through the winter (about four months where the grass is completely dormant) without hay supplementation. I've never tried it, but I think they'd make it through fine. They are always overwheight during the spring from coming out of winter in good shape. Right now our winters have been fairly mild, with snow only sticking for a week tops before it melts off. They are more than happy to go back to grazing on the dormant grass and leave the hay as soon as open patches open up. Not the case with the cows, lazy critters that they are. I could put everyone in the barn for protection, but they would for sure need hay if kept cooped up. This is really not an option if I had no way to harvest large quantities of hay. My horses are all broke to ride and drive, but I have zero horse drawn farming implements besides, a logging rig, a two wheeled cart, a parade carriage, and a wagon. I am looking into buying a few hand sythes and a plow this year from the Amish, but two people aren't going to be able to put up a lot of hay in addition to everything else that would need to be done. Dogs are really not at option at the moment. I give riding lessons, and there are often children around that may wat to 'pet the puppy'. I would hate to see the law suit that would come if one of them got bit. I have donkeys that keeps most of the natural preadators out, but they are treat hounds to people. Water is generally never an issue in my neck of the woods. There are streams everywhere, and I have two developed springs that require zero electricity. I'm thinking all the cows will have to be butchered, and half the horses, keeping a few of mares, my right hand man gelding, and my stud colt. They'd have to come in during the night, and be supervised during the day. If the gov should come to take them, it looks like I'll be spending some time packing in the woods with the string. I just can't come up with anything more feasible  Looks like my meat will be coming from the goats, poultry, and rabbits I raise. Even this I wonder about. After a certain point, will I be able to replace the males, at a minimum to avoid inbreeding? I hold no hope for large local game. We are fairly remote, but not remote enough. I am looking into pigs this year. I have raised them in the past, but alway in a confined situation with pre made feed, and no grazing. I wonder if they would do ok rootin around in the woods. It wouldn't surprise me, but fencing them with no electric will be a nightmare, and I have never had much luck with those solar fencers. They last me a couple of years tops.

Regarding more mo, well, I have no problem with guarding them, but I doubt I will be able to accomplish that at all hours of the day, and if the gov comes to get them, I won't stand a chance anyway. 

CowboyHermit, I love the culvert idea! I have lien toos in addition to the main barn in the pasture, I can definetly swing a couple out in the woods, but it would have to remain on my property. I am bordered by state wildlife land to my south, and a logging company to my north. Both are leased to hunters, and I doubt I could get permission to build there


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Don't get me started on fencersvract: 
We have some that are decades old but every so often we have one die in like a year. The main thing I have found you probably already know, ground it like crazy and then ground some more
Less scientific but it seems to also help to have the hot wire from the fencer loop down to the ground and not mount the fencer itself on the fence. Lightning is the biggest killer of fencers and giving it a easier path to earth can't hurt.
It can be tough to store enough hay but I would at least have a bin of oats if you can manage it, good for horses and cows, it doesn't have to be rolled. If you have a bit of oats for the cows every day you might be amazed at how well they do with little feed, we make our cows graze in REAL cold and snow and they do great, totally natural for them but you have to keep an eye on condition and supplementing with a mild grain like oats does wonders. They don't do quite as good in heavy snow as horses or buffalo which do great in the wild here, but they are pretty close.
I intend to hand this herd over to the next generation but if things go bad I will be making jerky at the drop of the hat  
Gonna be hard to make hay like great grandpa so it won't hurt to bring down the numbers a bit.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I don't anticipate any hordes being able to get out here on foot. It is 40 or more miles of desert in any direction. Nonetheless, I have discussed this with the neighbors and our plan is to protect our animals together. Between us, there are goats, cows, chickens, etc. Even the neighbors without animals have an interest in helping us since our livestock benefits them as well.


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## Tank_Girl (Dec 26, 2011)

In Europe during WWII a lot of the farmers kept their valued livestock in the cellar or they would be stolen as rations for the troops as they passed through.

Obviously there would be a limit on how many animals could be kept that way.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

On the negative side my farm is very near a military base so there is a high level of likelihood my cattle will be appropriated. On the plus side I am prepared for that with the expectation they the base will become one of my best customers and provide security in trade.


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## rrussell250 (Jan 31, 2013)

kejmack said:


> I don't anticipate any hordes being able to get out here on foot. It is 40 or more miles of desert in any direction. Nonetheless, I have discussed this with the neighbors and our plan is to protect our animals together. Between us, there are goats, cows, chickens, etc. Even the neighbors without animals have an interest in helping us since our livestock benefits them as well.


I'm looking for some good resources on goats. We have chickens and have had horses in the past but I don't know a thing about goats. Meat,milk,etc...


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

1.) Think along the lines of maximum security prisons for fencing. Be prepared for escapees and many dents and scratches on you car. Having plenty of browsing for them helps keep them from looking for the "greener grass on the other side of the fence". 
2.) Bucks (billies) STINK, especially in the fall. You and your nannies will all smell like him. It's his manly oder. I am not really offended by it, but people that come to visit sometimes are. Best keep him seperated and down wind of the house.
3.) If you milk, watch what your goat is eating, different plants/weeds can affect taste. If you live east of the Mississippi, please familiarize yourself with what White Snakeroot is, and research milk sickness, and the signs/symptoms
4.) I have had boers for meat, would like to get into Kikos.
5.) Milkers have always been Alpines, but I am on the hunt for a Nubian this year. I have heard they are wonderful.
6.) Buy from a reputable breeder, at least until you know what you are looking for. If you are new with goats, I found that they have a wealth of knowledge and generally want their animals to do well in their new homes, so they don't mind questions.
7.) Spend time with new kids, or learn how to throw a lariat (see #6 again)
8.) Goats are cool people. You will love them.

NaeKid suggested this sites sister forum's to me last week. The goat spot is excellent! Although I am currently just a lurker 

http://www.groupbuilder.com/


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We have had to move all the poultry closer to the homestead as we had most of our purebreds stolen last year. In a SHTF situation we'd cut our numbers down a lot, eat what we don't really need first and just keep essential numbers. Keep them in at night, we do this quite a bit anyway to collect manure for the gardens, and have a family member act as shepherd during the day. Not much else we can do here. We try to have 12 months of feed on hand at any one time, that way we can lock them up if we need to.


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Wellrounded said:


> We have had to move all the poultry closer to the homestead as we had most of our purebreds stolen last year. In a SHTF situation we'd cut our numbers down a lot, eat what we don't really need first and just keep essential numbers. Keep them in at night, we do this quite a bit anyway to collect manure for the gardens, and have a family member act as shepherd during the day. Not much else we can do here. We try to have 12 months of feed on hand at any one time, that way we can lock them up if we need to.


Stolen? What a shame. And SHTF hasn't even happened yet. I like the basement idea as suggested on this thread if I ever had to really protect my livestock. My basement is not very large, more of a root cellar than anything else. The house was built in the '20s and all additions only have a crawl space. I would never be able to get a horse or cow down there (there are outside access stairs and an old storm cellar door, but a subsequent addition before I bought the house is sitting right on top of it). But I could put my poultry, some goats, and the rabbits down there if need be. I never even thought about it until someone posted this. There are a lot of preps that would have to be relocated as I do use it for food storage and as a root cellar.

I like your animal feed storage preps. Also on a suggestion from this thread, I have started to store grain for the hooved stock. They pretty much live off the land right now anyway, but a long hard winter would mean a loss for a lot of them, especially the rabbits and poultry. I am working on sprout preps for them.


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