# Fed to track PM purchases over $600



## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will amend the Internal Revenue Code to expand the scope of Form 1099. Currently, 1099 forms are used to track and report the miscellaneous income associated with services rendered by independent contractors or self-employed individuals. Starting Jan. 1, 2012, Form 1099s will become a means of reporting to the Internal Revenue Service the purchases of all goods and services by small businesses and self-employed people that exceed $600 during a calendar year. Precious metals such as coins and bullion fall into this category and coin dealers have been among those most rankled by the change. This provision, intended to mine what the IRS deems a vast reservoir of uncollected income tax, was included in the health care legislation ostensibly as a way to pay for it. The tax code tweak is expected to raise $17 billion over the next 10 years, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation&#8230; (Recall that it was FDR who is credited for taking the US off the gold standard and, for several decades, banning the ownership of gold bullion and bullion coins.)

Business Index - ABC News ... d=11211611

We all know that tracking is the first step to confiscation.....


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I thought that it would be just a matter of time before the IRS would get interested in who had all the gold and silver and how much they had.

On June 5, 1933, the United States went off the gold standard, a monetary system in which currency is backed by gold, when Congress enacted a joint resolution nullifying the right of creditors to demand payment in gold. The United States had been on a gold standard since 1879, except for an embargo on gold exports during World War I, but bank failures during the Great Depression of the 1930s frightened the public into hoarding gold, making the policy untenable.

Soon after taking office in March 1933, Roosevelt declared a nationwide bank moratorium in order to prevent a run on the banks by consumers lacking confidence in the economy. He also forbade banks to pay out gold or to export it. According to Keynesian economic theory, one of the best ways to fight off an economic downturn is to inflate the money supply. And increasing the amount of gold held by the Federal Reserve would in turn increase its power to inflate the money supply. Facing similar pressures, Britain had dropped the gold standard in 1931, and Roosevelt had taken note.

On April 5, 1933, Roosevelt ordered all gold coins and gold certificates in denominations of more than $100 turned in for other money. It required all persons to deliver all gold coin, gold bullion and gold certificates owned by them to the Federal Reserve by May 1 for the set price of $20.67 per ounce. By May 10, the government had taken in $300 million of gold coin and $470 million of gold certificates. Two months later, a joint resolution of Congress abrogated the gold clauses in many public and private obligations that required the debtor to repay the creditor in gold dollars of the same weight and fineness as those borrowed. In 1934, the government price of gold was increased to $35 per ounce, effectively increasing the gold on the Federal Reserve's balance sheets by 69 percent. This increase in assets allowed the Federal Reserve to further inflate the money supply.

*The government held the $35 per ounce price until August 15, 1971, when President Richard Nixon announced that the United States would no longer convert dollars to gold at a fixed value, thus completely abandoning the gold standard.* In 1974, President Gerald Ford signed legislation that permitted Americans again to own gold bullion.
FDR takes United States off gold standard - History.com This Day in History - 6/5/1933


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm bumping this thread because the date is less than a year away. That's some scary stuff. They will confiscate soon, I believe. Time to bury your sh*t.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

I gave all mine away. I'm very generous. 

Shovel?.... what shovel? Nope, nothing buried here... really.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

IrritatedWithUS said:


> I'm bumping this thread because the date is less than a year away. That's some scary stuff. They will confiscate soon, I believe. Time to bury your sh*t.


I believe this is now a non-issue as it has been repealed by the new congress as one of their first acts earlier this calendar year.

While we all have to be diligent and constantly in contact with our elected representives, for the time being, this thanks to the uproar, is off the table.

Daily Kos: Section 9006 Repealed

Keep buying your silver and dust off the dirt. For now.

(PS correct me if I have my facts wrong-I do not want to promote wrong info)


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## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

*You guys are missing the point*

You guys are lost on this one. The 1099 they speak of will be when you recieve 600.00 in a calender year from any buisiness. This includes Paypal, consignment shops, gun shops (if you sell your things) and many others including coin dealers. They will all start recording all the money they pay out to se if any customers cross the 600.00 mark.

This does not mean they will be recording who buys PMs.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Are you sure Bob? When does it go into effect? It's easy to break $600 a year with PP or ebay. I might have already done it. I guess I'll have to use c-list to sell an old car not ebay from now on if you are right. 
I could easily be wrong, but I thought it was part of the tax changes that were reversed and part of what caused the delay filing itemized returns.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

unclebob said:


> You guys are lost on this one. The 1099 they speak of will be when you recieve 600.00 in a calender year from any buisiness. This includes Paypal, consignment shops, gun shops (if you sell your things) and many others including coin dealers. They will all start recording all the money they pay out to se if any customers cross the 600.00 mark.
> 
> This does not mean they will be recording who buys PMs.


In any case or interpretation, the added requirement for my business to create 1099's for this new requirement is void.

That is what I was verifying.

To help someone eliminate the need to bury PM's in the backyard: priceless.


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## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> Are you sure Bob? When does it go into effect? It's easy to break $600 a year with PP or ebay. I might have already done it. I guess I'll have to use c-list to sell an old car not ebay from now on if you are right.
> I could easily be wrong, but I thought it was part of the tax changes that were reversed and part of what caused the delay filing itemized returns.


I'm sure of the effect however I don't know it the repeal of it has been voted on yet. Can you imagine having to produce reciepts for your possesions you have sold or scraped to knock down the capital gains when a item is turned .


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

1099's have been used for payment that isn't reported as income. For example, if I hire someone to do work for me as a consultant and they receive more than $xxxx from me I have to file and send to them a 1099. They then list the amount from the 1099 on their income tax forms reporting it as income and then have to pay tax on it.

Now it also has been used for goods but that's more like gifts of goods. For example, I'm a salesrep and I sell product from a variety of vendors. One of the vendors offers me a promotion of $50 (cash or goods) for each one of their widgets that I sell. If I sell 5 widgest, the total "bonus" to me from the vendor is $250. It would not have to be reported as it is below the reporting level... although the vendor could still do so. However if I sold 20 widgets, then I'd get $1000 and they would file a 1099 to show that I was given $1000 of value (bonus money, check, visa card, free product, whatever) and now need to pay taxes on this.

Years and years ago I was in sales and got hit with 1099's all the time depending on what promo was going on from which vendor. 

If you win a contest and get a free car, whoever "donated" the car would file a 1099 for the value of the car as being given to you and you'd owe taxes on that amount. So that free $20,000 car just added 20K to your income... hope you got $5K laying around to pay the taxes on your "free" car. 

I'm not sure how the changes (proposed or canceled now or whatever) would change this. It has normally been used for services or goods but only in cases of unreported "income". If I sold a gun to someone for $1000 it would be them that would have to report giving me $1000 but that doesn't make sense as I did not make $1000 off the sale if I originally bought that gun for $850. Instead all I would have made was $150 in profit, not 1000.


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## 778008 (Mar 27, 2011)

CulexPipiens said:


> 1099's have been used for payment that isn't reported as income. For example, if I hire someone to do work for me as a consultant and they receive more than $xxxx from me I have to file and send to them a 1099. They then list the amount from the 1099 on their income tax forms reporting it as income and then have to pay tax on it.
> 
> Now it also has been used for goods but that's more like gifts of goods. For example, I'm a salesrep and I sell product from a variety of vendors. One of the vendors offers me a promotion of $50 (cash or goods) for each one of their widgets that I sell. If I sell 5 widgest, the total "bonus" to me from the vendor is $250. It would not have to be reported as it is below the reporting level... although the vendor could still do so. However if I sold 20 widgets, then I'd get $1000 and they would file a 1099 to show that I was given $1000 of value (bonus money, check, visa card, free product, whatever) and now need to pay taxes on this.
> 
> ...


Yes, but now even 1099s are to be reported for all transactions including Corporations. In the past $600 threshold was limited to partnerships and sole proprieters. Now a company that pays over $600/yr even to the phone/electirc/regular bills are all subject to the 1099. THere will be MANY more 1099 plus all that had been required like you state. Almost any bill a company pays will require a 1099 report now-all the new paperwork for many


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