# Blood Typing after SHTF



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I have been wondering why no one has mentioned this in the 3 years I have been on this forum. If SHsTF tomorrow do you know your blood type so if for some reason you have to have a very rudimentary transfusion you are not given the wrong type? (Like when Carl was shot on Walking Dead and Hershel needs to give him a transfusion.)

I know my blood type but that is from a test done when I was pregnant with Roo. But I was wondering how would we type those that don't know?


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

http://m.wikihow.com/Determine-Your-Blood-Type


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

BlackOps said:


> http://m.wikihow.com/Determine-Your-Blood-Type


How does this help in a SHTF situation and infrastructure as we know it is GONE?!


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

you don't need to know how to determine a person's blood type ... you're just wanting to know if it's compatible with yours or your patient .... you can tell compatibility under a microscope ....

good fiction example in the oldie PAW *Lucifer's Hammer* .... the survivor community does a rudimentary index card file of mutual resident compatibility to each other for transfusions ....


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

IlliniWarrior said:


> you don't need to know how to determine a person's blood type ... you're just wanting to know if it's compatible with yours or your patient .... you can tell compatibility under a microscope ....
> 
> good fiction example in the oldie PAW *Lucifer's Hammer* .... the survivor community does a rudimentary index card file of mutual resident compatibility to each other for transfusions ....


This is good and dandy if you have a microscope. But what would you look for to show compatibility?


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

http://www.hometrainingtools.com/blood-test-kit


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

BlackOps said:


> http://www.hometrainingtools.com/blood-test-kit


FYI Most folks here don't click on unknown links.

What does it say?


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

Sorry. It's an at home blood type test kit for under 10 bucks.


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

Blood typing is based on the way red blood cells clump together or agglutinate. Agglutination is caused by the presence of Anti-A and Anti-B antibodies reacting with the A and B antigens in the red blood cells. Each individual blood type kit test for red blood cell type and Rh factor.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

BlackOps said:


> Blood typing is based on the way red blood cells clump together or agglutinate. Agglutination is caused by the presence of Anti-A and Anti-B antibodies reacting with the A and B antigens in the red blood cells. Each individual blood type kit test for red blood cell type and Rh factor.


I know how typing works.

My question is how does all of this apply when there are no phlebotomists to draw the blood and run the tests. Do we all now need to store a bunch of these home kits so when it all falls apart we can make sure what type a possible donor is?


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

I would rather be prepared. How would you handle such situation?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Things would need to be completely FUBAR to do a direct transfusion, especially without at least some basic kit. A LOT easier to kill someone than save them. Easy way to find out your blood type now; donate blood, sure you can ask your doc but I never remembered till I got that little card in my wallet.

As for after TSHTF, those test kits seem like the way to go as to some degree of safety. An inexperienced person looking in a microscope in an crisis situation sounds like a suboptimal plan to me. I DO think a microscope is a useful tool though. Of course, if you have an O- in the group...


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

Cowboy I lucked up my wife is o-. Also ab - are universal recipients


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> Things would need to be completely FUBAR to do a direct transfusion, especially without at least some basic kit. A LOT easier to kill someone than save them. Easy way to find out your blood type now; donate blood, sure you can ask your doc but I never remembered till I got that little card in my wallet.
> 
> As for after TSHTF, those test kits seem like the way to go as to some degree of safety. An inexperienced person looking in a microscope in an crisis situation sounds like a suboptimal plan to me. I DO think a microscope is a useful tool though. Of course, if you have an O- in the group...


and you would take someone's word for it that they remember their blood type from a 30 year prior military stint .... God help anyone you are medicating ...

you can't perform a simple microscope test they teach to 12 year olds but you think there'll be blood testing kits growing on trees ... try focusing for some common sense ....


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

IlliniWarrior said:


> and you would take someone's word for it that they remember their blood type from a 30 year prior military stint .... God help anyone you are medicating ...
> 
> you can't perform a simple microscope test they teach to 12 year olds but you think there'll be blood testing kits growing on trees ... try focusing for some common sense ....


I agree, with the "God help anyone" that I am ever giving a direct transfusion to in a shtf situation, no matter how good the gear is. Even with trained and experience professionals, blood transfusions tended to be very risky procedures without even mentioning disease transmission.

I really don't know what you're talking about in your first statement, I never said anything about taking anyone's word or about anything military.

I also never said that I can't perform a simple microscope test, I said it's a useful tool, but no, I can't say I relish the thought of a 12y.o looking into a microscope while I am bleeding to death being my only means of determining blood type.

I also never said that blood tests grew on trees, they don't, you know what else doesn't; microscopes, power sources for microscope lights, slides, needles, tubing, blood pressure cuffs, knives, heck pretty much everything one needs to be prepared. A microscope isn't the most handy thing to carry in a medic bag, these tests would be possible. If one is stocking a more stationary kit, where a microscope is more feasible, then along with all the other gear required a few tests are not a big deal, even if they are to be double checked under a micro-scope.

Eta; AB+ are considered the "Universal recipients" they have "all" the antigens


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Because my wife and I are on a blood type diet we try to keep a kit on hand for others that may want to know their blood type. We buy our kits from an herb and vitamin store, it's relatively common for health food stores to have these kits because of peoples interest in a blood type diet. By the way I got rid of a 20+ year problem of low blood sugar by following this diet and I rarely git sick anymore, no colds or flu and I heal much faster from work wounds, even the ones that scare my wife that have lots of blood flowing.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Good question, never really thought about it myself, as I know the blood types of my wife and daughter, which also happen to be the same as mine. 

I don't know enough about blood expanders or transfusion to add anything meaningful, but anything someone who does know, it would be appreciated.


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## ikean (Jul 4, 2010)

You can donate at a blood drive. In 6 weeks you get a card in the mail with your blood type and cholesterol level. You can carry that card in your wallet. You can get a blood type Velcro patch at most gun shows and army surplus stores. I have a keychain and a patch on my hat with an allergy patch. In a nonshtf situation they will type you even if you gave it tattooed on you.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Grimm said:


> I have been wondering why no one has mentioned this in the 3 years I have been on this forum. If SHsTF tomorrow do you know your blood type so if for some reason you have to have a very rudimentary transfusion you are not given the wrong type? (Like when Carl was shot on Walking Dead and Hershel needs to give him a transfusion.)
> 
> I know my blood type but that is from a test done when I was pregnant with Roo. But I was wondering how would we type those that don't know?


Sorry ... truly I am ... but "Most" folks would not know "How" to even start a transfusion...

So the way I see it ... it is mute.

Again sorry!


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Personally what I do, is keep a Dog-tag tucked into the laces of my work/combat boots (still AD USAF). I started the practice while I was working in Korea, and when I got some new boots I just transferred the Dog-tag over. I currently work around people who I seriously doubt have the intellectual ability to safely handle a firearm. While I'm around those people, I personally try to be armed with a M9, and I keep the Tag in my boots. So if something happens at a range, far away from civilization the medics know what blood to give me. 

After I separate, from active duty I'll probably keep the tag in whatever boots I wear (if I wear boots) , or on a chain. It has stuff that might be important in case I'm unable to talk, social, name, prayer, blood type.

The point I'm trying to make is the mythical SHTF that we all fear, the big one. May never happen in our lifetimes, but a SHTF that affects just you is very possible if not likely. 

I believe the Red Cross will tell you your blood type after you give blood, but I'm not 100% on that it has been a few years. Other then that it shouldn't be a hard thing to figure out your blood type if you are curious, I'm sure your Doc could very easily tell you that info.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

IlliniWarrior said:


> and you would take someone's word for it that they remember their blood type from a 30 year prior military stint .... God help anyone you are medicating ...
> 
> you can't perform a simple microscope test they teach to 12 year olds but you think there'll be blood testing kits growing on trees ... try focusing for some common sense ....


Believe it or not, I remember most of the important things quite well from my military service 30 years ago. Blood type being one of them. If I'm unable to communicate my blood type, it should be easy enough for a responder to identify it from my dog tags or the many other places it's placed on kit or clothing.


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## BlackOps (Jul 10, 2015)

I have kept my Tags as well. Keep one on my key chain, one on my neck, and a med card on my BOB. Being proactive is key. Remember... Everything works until it doesn't.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

It's one thing to know your blood type but a whole other situation to actually transfuse. There are cheap transfusion bags with anticoagulant added available but you still would have to more than a "little know how" to keep it from clotting and quite a bit more in order to keep from killing someone from a transfusion reaction. Not to mention, the sterility can only be guaranteed for a short time with many medical items. Today's cross match may screen for over 400 antigens on a red blood cell. Knowing your blood type is a start for compatibility, but there are many other known blood groups (most women recognize the second most common group - the Rh factor) Then there are 30 or so other groups to have to worry about. Walking blood banks are done in worst case scenarios ie...wars...but there still is alot of oversite that goes into the screening. Doctors do this when they decide to risk having to support a transfusion reaction and are willing to risk disease transmission for the sake of replacing oxygen carrying capacity and clotting factors. 

simple agglutination tests can be carried out with microscopes or with some of these simple elisa test kits which may put you in the ballpark of lowering risk. There is still a lengthy protocol to follow to keep from causing ones condition to worsen.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

For sake of the argument though - you would need to either at a minimum have type and screened your pool of people prior or have commercial kits available for at least the major blood groups - RH factor won't matter to men, but will cause profound hemolysis in females (and infants in childbirth). Then you could collect 500ml of donor blood in a CPDA-1 bag. Under these circumstances, you likely will not be able to test for any transferred disease, being that this is a large cost of commercial blood products. 

Here is the big catch that they don't really talk about in the TV shows/movies. In the shows, they show someone on the verge of catastrophe and then one person is found to be a match and donates,hence saving the day. You usually transfuse patients when they do not have enough red blood cells circulating to transfer oxygen and keep their oxygen saturation above 92% and they are showing signs or symptoms of distress. Most of the symptoms of mild to moderate blood loss and shock can be treated with volume replacement of IV fluids as long as the hemorrhage is controlled. In circumstances where the transfusion is being done because the amount of blood loss has hindered clotting (ie..DIC, massive hemorrhage related to childbirth) usually multiple units (5-10 units) of blood are transfused along with factor VIIa at a minimum and perhaps even other blood products. You can see the logistics don't really work out unless you have a large pool of willing people. Controlling the risk of disease transmission and transfusion reactions really have to be done first. In an emergency, 1-2 units of blood are not likely to make a difference. It make make a difference to a symptomatic,anemic elderly person who is teetering on the edge of shortness of breath from chronic disease. For gunshot wounds, trauma injuries or labor hemorrhage, we go through volumes of blood much much larger.

There was a Doomsday prepper episode where a guy was collecting his own blood for autotransfusion. I believe his daughter was a phlebotomist and she helped him set it all up. The silly thing about this was that he had bags and bags stored in his refrigerator. A red blood cell lasts 120 days. To safety replace the red blood cells your losing you should wait 56 days between donations. So at most he has 2 usable units and anything older than 120 days is aged plasma contaminated with dead non functioning red blood cells. The prepper motto of "something is better than nothing" is not true when its aged blood in a emergency unless his goal is to die by his own hands (or blood in this case)


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## valannb22 (Jan 6, 2012)

If you do go the blood donation route to find out your type, just know that if you are O neg, they will hound you FOREVER. 

Drfacefixer brings up an interesting point as well about mothers/infants and blood type. That's good info to have now in case you're thinking about babies post SHTF. I'm O neg and Chad is O positive. After our first child was born, I had to get Rhogam injections with my later pregnancies to stop my body from attacking them.


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## bogey (Aug 10, 2015)

drfacefixer said:


> For sake of the argument though - you would need to either at a minimum have type and screened your pool of people prior or have commercial kits available for at least the major blood groups - RH factor won't matter to men, but will cause profound hemolysis in females (and infants in childbirth). Then you could collect 500ml of donor blood in a CPDA-1 bag. Under these circumstances, you likely will not be able to test for any transferred disease, being that this is a large cost of commercial blood products.
> 
> Here is the big catch that they don't really talk about in the TV shows/movies. In the shows, they show someone on the verge of catastrophe and then one person is found to be a match and donates,hence saving the day. You usually transfuse patients when they do not have enough red blood cells circulating to transfer oxygen and keep their oxygen saturation above 92% and they are showing signs or symptoms of distress. Most of the symptoms of mild to moderate blood loss and shock can be treated with volume replacement of IV fluids as long as the hemorrhage is controlled. In circumstances where the transfusion is being done because the amount of blood loss has hindered clotting (ie..DIC, massive hemorrhage related to childbirth) usually multiple units (5-10 units) of blood are transfused along with factor VIIa at a minimum and perhaps even other blood products. You can see the logistics don't really work out unless you have a large pool of willing people. Controlling the risk of disease transmission and transfusion reactions really have to be done first. In an emergency, 1-2 units of blood are not likely to make a difference. It make make a difference to a symptomatic,anemic elderly person who is teetering on the edge of shortness of breath from chronic disease. For gunshot wounds, trauma injuries or labor hemorrhage, we go through volumes of blood much much larger.
> 
> There was a Doomsday prepper episode where a guy was collecting his own blood for autotransfusion. I believe his daughter was a phlebotomist and she helped him set it all up. The silly thing about this was that he had bags and bags stored in his refrigerator. A red blood cell lasts 120 days. To safety replace the red blood cells your losing you should wait 56 days between donations. So at most he has 2 usable units and anything older than 120 days is aged plasma contaminated with dead non functioning red blood cells. The prepper motto of "something is better than nothing" is not true when its aged blood in a emergency unless his goal is to die by his own hands (or blood in this case)


:melikey:

And as stated in previous post, typing is just the tip of the ice berg. Give me fluids, not someones blood. Have seen transfusion reactions from well matched blood. People with sickle cell have a hard time receiving blood because they have so many antibodies. It can literally take days to find a suitable match. Too risky. And frankly, if it's that bad, I'd rather become hypovolemic, with low blood pressure, pass out and fade quietly rather than suffer a transfusion reaction. My .02 anyway.

edit - no I don't have sickle cell. Nor am I intimating anyone else here does. Just an example.


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