# "The Art of War" - Prepping Stores Security



## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

From the Art of War as found at http://suntzusaid.com

"All warfare is based on deception.

Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him."

Here's my questions for the group for discussion:

1. As it relates to your prepping activity, what can be done to deceive the people in your area so that they perceive you as a person who is not prepping. There has been activity on other threads within the group related to this question, i.e. the UPS delivery man that brings your preps or ammo to your home.
2. What security can be taken so that the people around you don't know if you are prepping or don't know about your stores.
3. Have you looked at the people who live in your area to determine who is an asset, who is a threat, who is a sheep that isn't going to have the initiative to try and loot, forage or steal to survive. Should we as preppers consider who would be on the hit list if TSHTF to "to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him"?
4. What can be done to deceive those who might take advantage of us to make them believe that we are unable or unwilling to defend.

I've seen lots of discussion related to security and it usually deals with the active security issues of defense, weapons, evasion and bug out. Without diminishing the importance of active security and defense I'd like to see the discussions of passive activities that enhance the security of our preps.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Most/all the U.S. military academies use it in their curriculum. Very good stuff in their particularly as it relates to assymetric warfare.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

As far as the UPS guy goes there are just some risks that I don't worry too much about. I also don't use UPS a great deal. Some people that do worry about UPS, and have the right situation have their UPS shipments delivered to work. If you have a team member that is bugging out to your place you could have UPS deliver to them.

Just keeping your mouth shut is the best defense. "Loose lips sink ships," was not just a cute saying. My two best friends have a significant amount of food. I don't know where it is or how much. I don't ask they don't tell. I've been in both their homes and there is no obvious stash. Do I have an idea? Certainly, but it is none of my business. We live far enough away from each other that we will not be able to help each other so our knowing the particulars of each others preps is not beneficial. There is no 'need to know'.

Keeping your stores in a basement or storm cellar is fine. Some people bury their food in the back forty or store it off site. You may settle on a closet or back room but if you stack it up in the hallway people will figure it out. Certainly some of your food will be in cupboards where people will see them but don't leave all your food available for public view.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Caribou said:


> As far as the UPS guy goes there are just some risks that I don't worry too much about. I also don't use UPS a great deal. Some people that do worry about UPS, and have the right situation have their UPS shipments delivered to work. If you have a team member that is bugging out to your place you could have UPS deliver to them.
> 
> Just keeping your mouth shut is the best defense. "Loose lips sink ships," was not just a cute saying. My two best friends have a significant amount of food. I don't know where it is or how much. I don't ask they don't tell. I've been in both their homes and there is no obvious stash. Do I have an idea? Certainly, but it is none of my business. We live far enough away from each other that we will not be able to help each other so our knowing the particulars of each others preps is not beneficial. There is no 'need to know'.
> 
> Keeping your stores in a basement or storm cellar is fine. Some people bury their food in the back forty or store it off site. You may settle on a closet or back room but if you stack it up in the hallway people will figure it out. Certainly some of your food will be in cupboards where people will see them but don't leave all your food available for public view.


Caribou is on the money on this one, the less is shown the better, been aware of who comes to your house, blend with the regulars while shopping; no military type clothing, survival supplies should be out of view, lock
make some kind of secret spot for your ammo, you must also be aware of who your friends are and keep some things secret, I guess that`s my military way of thinking but it works, always keep a secret to your self, and if you go to a range *Be Aware of Who is Following You*.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'm self-employed. I work from home. When I was stocking up on food I'd go shopping about 9 a.m. and get home around 10 a.m. I'd be hauling stuff in the house when nobody was home. Sometimes I used a Rubbermaid garbage can to haul groceries. I don't talk about prepping with anyone around the neighborhood. Nobody knows we have guns either. I don't consider anybody an asset. There's a guy down the block who I consider a threat. He lives with his mom. He's trashed her car. Harassed the neighbors. Wrecked her garage door.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

When I go on a buying spree, I back into the garage and close the door before unloading.

Mail orders, so far, have come in plain, unmarked packages, so no worries there.

Bulk grains and such are purchased through the local co-op. Delivery is at a location off site during a week day, and, like shopping spree day, I back into (or up to, if there's too much junk) the garage before unloading.

Bulk supplies are immediately taken to the store room, and no company is allowed over until it's all put away. When certain people are over, the storeroom door is locked. So far, none of the visiting kids have asked anything about it.

My next door neighbor on one side also stocks up (but probably not nearly as much as me), and the neighbors on the other side are twenty something girls whose gas/water/electric (pick one) is disconnected EVERY month for non-payment (it's not always the same utility, but it's one of them, EVERY month).

They like to party. Their mom had said things to me indicating she might be a prepper, but she died two years ago, so no telling what became of her stores, assuming she had any.

Other neighbor may be stocking, I know his dad (who lives out in the country) has a shelter, so maybe they're planning to BO to there. Most of the other people in the neighborhood I don't know anything about. Lots of houses in the 'hood are empty. Some foreclosed, some for sale, including the house across the street.

My kids are known in the neighborhood as the "soldier kids." They are into airsoft, and get up battles with other kids in the neighborhood. They wear tactical gear and look pretty serious. That may or may not make us a target...with so many other kids in the 'hood also into airsoft...but my kids _are_ better equipped than most. (The guys at the Army Surplus store love us!) :dunno:

I've had to fuss at my husband on more than one occasion for blabbing about our stores to people, and I can only hope they don't remember what he said, or didn't believe him...he hasn't done that in a long while, so here's hoping...


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Ezmerelda said:


> When I go on a buying spree, I back into the garage and close the door before unloading.
> 
> Mail orders, so far, have come in plain, unmarked packages, so no worries there.
> 
> ...


 That may or may not make us a target...with so many other kids in the 'hood also into airsoft...but my kids _are_ better equipped than most

You would think especially with kids, that as neighbors see, watch them, that eventually it becomes the "norm" If something you get is a new item, for them to play with, the neighbors are more likely not going to pay much attention. If you have a big family, getting a lot of groceries becomes the "norm". Maybe it's a good idea to talk with the kids if you are expecting a big shipment of goods, letting the other kids know that you got a super deal on it, and couldn't pass it up. The hard one to explain is when the semi truck pulls in with your 40 foot underground shelter....


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Have it shipped to a company name with your address. Make them think that you run a small business from your home.

Make one up, it does not have to be real.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

We had a case once where a guy had cloned several credit cards, but did not want to use them in person for fear of video cameras. So he purchased things he wanted off of Amazon, a lot of things. Some he would keep, most of which he would resell on eBay. He would have them delivered to empty houses that were for sale but did not show much signs of activity (as in vacant, semi-secluded and overpriced). He would leave shipping instructions waiving a signature and asking to just have it left at the end of the driveway or on the front step. Then he would set up a text alert to be notified the moment it was delivered. As soon as he got that text he would pull up to the house, walk up and retrieve the package. He did several things to disguise his activities from putting on a paper delivery bag full of newspapers, to a brown UPS shirt and hat, to taking photos of the house like he was interested, to walking up with a weed trimmer. He did this for a long time (3-4 years) until he made a mistake and accidentally made a purchase using a card that he had already used up and was under investigation. After a short stake out he was arrested. A warrant was served on his "second apartment" full of merchandise and other evidence. He did have 8,000+ positives on eBay though. We never received a single report over that entire span from UPS or any neighbor about the packages being left at vacant houses.


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## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

Something that I've found helpful is the "Click & Pull" at Sam's Clubs. I go online and place my order for the bulk items and canned goods that I'm planning on storing. Then when I show up at the store I go to the customer service department and give them my order number. They pull it up on the computer and I pay for it there. Then over to a basket area, where there a whole bunch of other baskets that are loaded for schools, businesses and such and get the one with my name on it. It is wrapped totally in sealing wrap so I can't put anything else in it, but it also makes it virtually impossible for anyone in the store or as I'm walking out to tell what's in my basket. Then to a secure area of the parking lot and everything goes into my vehicle inside for no one but me to see.

Like others I am unloading and putting into storage when others aren't around to see or watch what I'm doing. I'm lucky in that my storage area is not in my home so while I may drive up to my home after shopping it's usually later in less active hours when I take it and place it in storage.

When I order bulk items online from food storage companies they are delivered to my barn on my property and placed there by UPS or FED Ex. This is also where they deliver bigger items that I use in my business. I then load them up and move them to my food storage location when all is quite.

I pay very close attention to who is around when I'm going to my food storage location or when I'm receiving anything shipped at another location. I believe very strongly that making sure to not advertise what is going on in regards to prepping and storage is a critical part of my security plan. Also, no one other than my wife knows what, where or why we are storing food. Fortunately I don't have next door neighbors or across the street neighbors as we live in a very rural small community, what I've got to be aware of is the small community environment where everyone knows everyone and everyone seems to know what everyone else is doing.


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## Sarasyn (Jun 4, 2013)

Security isn't so much an issue for me at the moment. We're just starting our prepping, so a lot of what's going to come into our house is food. With a family of 6, and a roommate for the time being, we bring in a lot of food anyway. A lot of what we need to get can be explained away as "camp gear". I'm just worried about firearms and ammo. It's pretty well known by friends and family that I don't like the idea if resorting to guns. If I suddenly start having guns and ammo in my house people might start to wonder. I'm not sure how to handle that yet.


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## glydrider (Jun 10, 2013)

I have a PO box that I have stuff mailed to and then I haul it off from there. 
My shop is located in indian country. You drive up that road and don't live there or are known, more than one neighbor will yell at the passing tourist and they may catch a rock in the windshield from somone as well. Anyway, my shop space is 15 x 30, I built a wall in the back and put shelves on it and a doorway that is hidden. I created a 12x10 15 foot high storage area. Nothing touches the floor so I can spray for bugs or whatever. Up front is my tools, work benches and what ever. When I come and go, nobody sees what I load or unload. When friends come over, they have no clue about my storage area, not even my girlfriend. She's neen there a dozen times and never blinked an eye at that wall. I'm bet a robber wouldn't even notice it. I'm in the process of brigging a keyed alarm system that runs off of solar power stored up in the rafters and out of reach. 
I'm on round 3, I lost everything in a wild fire down in California, then I lost most of everything in a devorce and now trying to start over, while paying child support. I'm in a metal storage shop where fire and flood isn't a concern and no more getting married. I keep my mouth shut about prepping.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Sarasyn said:


> Security isn't so much an issue for me at the moment. We're just starting our prepping, so a lot of what's going to come into our house is food. With a family of 6, and a roommate for the time being, we bring in a lot of food anyway. A lot of what we need to get can be explained away as "camp gear". I'm just worried about firearms and ammo. It's pretty well known by friends and family that I don't like the idea if resorting to guns. If I suddenly start having guns and ammo in my house people might start to wonder. I'm not sure how to handle that yet.


If your household can be trusted to be quiet about the stored food then they can probably be trusted to keep quiet about the guns. As long as you keep your mouth shut and don't hang the gun over the mantle you should be able to maintain a fair amount of security.

When I was very young my parents told me that I would be allowed to know family secrets as long as I kept this information to myself. I very much wanted to be trusted and included.


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## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

i cant afford large amounts of food at the moment and i'll be moving around a lot so everything i have i'll need to be able to transport in my truck or on my back in a shtf situation. most of the time i'll either be trapping or scavenging my food


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Something to keep in mind.
Your personal files. I keep an up to date log of all the guns and ammo I may or may not have purchased. I will do the same thing for food etc as I accumulate various supplies. 
For any files like that I would personally given the option keep them on a computer that isn't connected to the internet. Backed up on a flash drive stored in a secret and secure place with any personal information that is important. 
Copies of Social Security Cards, Birth Certificates, Mortgage information. The Serial Numbers to all Firearms you have in your possession. It would be something I updated on a weekly basis as well. 

The Key is to make it so it isn't connected to the internet. While it may be more convenient it is also less secure to keep important files such as what I mentioned on a computer that is hooked up to the internet.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Cabowabo said:


> Something to keep in mind.
> Your personal files. I keep an up to date log of all the guns and ammo I may or may not have purchased. I will do the same thing for food etc as I accumulate various supplies.
> For any files like that I would personally given the option keep them on a computer that isn't connected to the internet. Backed up on a flash drive stored in a secret and secure place with any personal information that is important.
> Copies of Social Security Cards, Birth Certificates, Mortgage information. The Serial Numbers to all Firearms you have in your possession. It would be something I updated on a weekly basis as well.
> ...


Yep, I started to do that too on an old computer, I also have all items I own in it too. I have a Toshiba 500gb backup which I put all this on. When ever it rains and I'm home I put in/update everything.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Record Keeping&Security*

The only list that I make is a shopping list or need to get items, making a list/inventory of all my items is like making a list of passwords, you will need more security to keep them secured, all copies of original official papers most be certified by the issuing agency in order to claim later, copies of original weapons records/sales most be notarize also to prove ownership, in other words in order to make a copy legal, notarize it.In my shooting bag I have copies of all my weapons registration/ownership just in case ,all original documents/certified copies are in a fire proof briefcase with emergency cash in a secret compartment in the house. You come into my house and you will see my canned goods,5 gallon containers, two people only know that I have weapons, have never order ammo by mail/ups you are blowing your security right there, when ammo was available I use to get it by buying 2-3 boxes at a time every 2-3 days a week in different places
sometimes miles away, but no, no inventories here I know what I have and where .If you really want to keep records safe make a time capsule buried it somewhere and GPS the location or at your second location.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Nobody cares what you have.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> Nobody cares what you have.


That is true, to a point. If you live in "suburbia", and your nieghbors are the type to be nosey-all up in your bidness" types, then you should try to be at least inconspicuous about binging in large amounts of "obvious" prep goods. 
For me it isn't an issue, we cant be seen from the road and the one guy lives next door is almost never home. I could bring an F-16 in and nobody would see. 
I usually get a smallish amount of goods about 4 or 5 times a month. Nothing drastic.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

If I started building an ark my neighbors might notice.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> If I started building an ark my neighbors might notice.


Your neighbors need to mind their own damned business!!!! :eyebulge:


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

Biggest pet peeve about ordering from cabelas is that their shipping boxes scream "CABELAS" all over it. So when you order a lot from them you start getting funny looks from your regular delivery guy.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

I buy bulk things from the store under the guise that I am a baker and my husband a chef and we love to make food. Or something is on clearance/has coupons on it. I typically get home at mid morning and the only neighbors I worry about generally are not out and about and even when they are, they are generally on the other side of their property in or around the barn.


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