# Air into Water - no power required



## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

How to pull water from air, interesting concept and of course has many applications if cost effective. The question I have as a firm believer of "No such thing as a free lunch" if we pull the water out of the air, what happens to ground water --- no rain, no snow or I am wrong?

A new device that's powered by sunlight could help solve water scarcity problems.

by James Temple April 13, 2017
Scientists have developed a device that can suck water out of desert skies, powered by sunlight alone. They hope that a version of the technology could eventually supply clean drinking water in some the driest and poorest parts of the globe.

The device is based on a novel material that can pull large amounts of water into its many pores. According to a study published in the journal Science on Thursday, a kilogram of the material can capture several liters of water each day in humidity levels as low as 20 percent, typical of arid regions.

The technology could help address a big and growing problem. A report last year in Science Advances found that four billion people, nearly half in India and China, face "severe water scarcity at least one month of the year." That means water shortages affect two-thirds of the world's population. These shortages-and the resulting conflicts-are only expected to become more common in large parts of the world as climate change accelerates.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/604137/water-from-desert-skies/?set=604193

Good thing, bad thing or non-factor?


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

well if it works and im sure it does, its a good thing, now to make it cost effective.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

It's just a new design Solar Still. As far as removing to much Moisture from the Air and effecting normal Rain Fall and Ground Water it won't happen, as long as the Sun works and we have Oceans the process of Evaporation will be continuous and far greater than any Machine can extract.


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

The more you lower humidity the faster any liquid water in the area evaporates .. the more you lower the humidity, the faster it will be replaced.

That is why evaporation coolers/ air conditioners work in Arizona, but not in Alabama .. the water going thru them in Alabama can't evaporate fast enough to provide any cooling effect because the humidity is higher that the tipping point where efficient cooling occurs.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

AmmoSgt said:


> The more you lower humidity the faster any liquid water in the area evaporates .. the more you lower the humidity, the faster it will be replaced.
> 
> That is why evaporation coolers/ air conditioners work in Arizona, but not in Alabama .. the water going thru them in Alabama can't evaporate fast enough to provide any cooling effect because the humidity is higher that the tipping point where efficient cooling occurs.


Evaporation coolers / swamp coolers do work better in arid climates. Nature does hate a void. Evaporation lowers temperature but to be efficient there must be a moisture void. Desert vs Swamp.

i wonder if 10 million of these devices in a general area (middle east city) is going leave enough water to condense further down wind? Do all the down stream water holes dry up? Cause and effect, good intentions and the surprise down the road? Every time some new miraculous invention is developed, we later discover the hidden / unknown cost. I just finished reading a study where a group of dedicated and acknowledged environmentalist experts attempted to figure how how to "SAVE the Earth" without causing damage to one or another of our natural resource. The bottom line, they failed. Save the forest and plant more trees -- used up the land and water, more solar and wind projects, chemical pollution to build the infrastructure and on it went, one answer created a different problem.

i am not against progress, just curious as to what each free lunch is going to actually cost. As we use up the ground water, rivers and streams, where is the air going to get it's moisture --- oceans --- maybe but man will go after this water source very soon too.

Climate warming maybe --- or --- simply the price of a growing population and the demands for more resources. The Colorado river flowed all the way to the sea, it now ends in a dry trickle in Mexico.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Okay, playing devil's advocate. This new goody really works out great and now every home and commercial building has one. How is the utility company going to charge for it? Put some type of meter on the output side? We know the utilities are not going to let water flow free.

Maybe this works and the rivers and streams flow again and the aquifers are filled. Anybody want to bet if this device does work, all it will do is allow people to waste even more water? 

Okay, in one of my social skeptical moods. :dunno:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> If you have city water what do you need this for? It seems like a lot of work for a few liters of water.


Just like everything else --- Supply and demand.

First we use up the existing fresh water supply and then we use this new and wonderful invention.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

*AmmoSgt nails it on evap/coolers...*

Evaporative coolers.......Yup, they might work great in Arizona, etc., but stick one anywhere the humidity is roughly 240% all the time, ain't nothing gonna happen! 

As for the "water still," sounds good, looks good on paper, but have you checked into the COST of all those conversion plants that ARE up and running? Fresh water from sea water is being done several places, and NONE of them are anywhere near "cost effective." They may be alleviating local needs, but cost effective? No!

How about if you're in any rural area, ya just drill a damn well, deep enough to allow for a drop in the aquifer? If you're in the city....good luck, if the water gets cut off! :scratch


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Evaporative coolers.......Yup, they might work great in Arizona, etc., but stick one anywhere the humidity is roughly 240% all the time, ain't nothing gonna happen!
> 
> As for the "water still," sounds good, looks good on paper, but have you checked into the COST of all those conversion plants that ARE up and running? Fresh water from sea water is being done several places, and NONE of them are anywhere near "cost effective." They may be alleviating local needs, but cost effective? No!
> 
> How about if you're in any rural area, ya just drill a damn well, deep enough to allow for a drop in the aquifer? If you're in the city....good luck, if the water gets cut off! :scratch


I planned for the "Tin Hat House" to survive off rain catchment. Wells can go dry and/or the gooberment can force meter installation. Cistern designed to hold a minimum of 5 years water supply (approximately 84,960 gallons) (100' x 18' x 8' cistern) for average 4 person family. If it stops raining for 5 years, I think we are all going to buy the farm. Even with 1/4 annual rain fall the catchment system would be enough. The annual rainfall was calculated from average Arizona location. The cistern would also hold enough water to maintain the Aquaponic system. Any excess water would be channeled to a drip water system to feed very thorny,--- blackberry / rose/ cactus type perimeter plants. Just my current design / plan.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> I planned for the "Tin Hat House" to survive off rain catchment. Wells can go dry and/or the gooberment can force meter installation. Cistern designed to hold a minimum of 5 years water supply (approximately 84,960 gallons) (100' x 18' x 8' cistern) for average 4 person family. If it stops raining for 5 years, I think we are all going to buy the farm. Even with 1/4 annual rain fall the catchment system would be enough. The annual rainfall was calculated from average Arizona location. The cistern would also hold enough water to maintain the Aquaponic system. Any excess water would be channeled to a drip water system to feed very thorny,--- blackberry / rose/ cactus type perimeter plants. Just my current design / plan.


If it stops raining for five years, the entire U.S. would resemble the Mojave! Jeeez! But, yes, water storage is a MUST....most urban area water systems wouldn't last more than a month or two if the shtf...no maintenance, no chemicals, no repairs, and maybe even deliberate shut offs or mayhem. :dunno:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> I would suggest that you divide your tank into say, four sections so you can drain one section for cleaning or maintenance. No sewer lines running above the water tank.


I learned that from an earlier post on this forum, could have been one of yours. I don't remember who mentioned about sectioning off and cleaning but the current design has the cistern sectioned off into 5 sections and completely back filled to support the water pressure on the walls.

Sewer lines are a minimum 15 feet from cistern and face the solid concrete blank wall, no inlets on that side. All water piping is on opposite side of cistern, along with cistern clean out (human size) access for each individual section.

This forum has taught me a tremendous amount and I continue to learn every day. I still have some questions regarding the best type of septic tank system but I will save those until I post the "Tin Hat House" project. I am really looking forward to that discussion. Once basic design is debugged. I can start to focus on specific equipment, such as propane generators, water filters, water softeners and all the million components required to make the project actually feasible.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

tmttactical said:


> How to pull water from air, interesting concept and of course has many applications if cost effective. The question I have as a firm believer of "No such thing as a free lunch" if we pull the water out of the air, what happens to ground water --- no rain, no snow or I am wrong?
> 
> A new device that's powered by sunlight could help solve water scarcity problems.
> 
> ...


I think it's a non-factor. There isn't enough moisture in desert air to begin with.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Caribou said:


> Easy enough to test, pour yourself a nice cold drink with lots of ice. If moisture collects on the outside of the glass that water is collecting from the air.


_humidity levels as low as 20 percent,_

Are you kidding?? When the humidity is that high were dyin out here... the swamp coolers quit working and it turns the house into a convection oven. Our current humidity is 15%.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

_The key component is a promising class of synthetic porous materials called metal-organic frameworks_,

I wonder how they deal with the sand. It clogs everything. I change the air filter in my truck with every oil change because the sand clogs it up to bad. Depending on how many "sandy" days we've had I can sometimes just blow it out but not usually.


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