# New to here, with bug in questions



## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

We live on 5 acres outside a city of,about 20,000 ppl. We r 2 - 3 hours from a major city..with only one road in from said city. We r prepping to stay put, but we r a compound of handicapped folks. We have 2 young couples that will come here if shtf to help work and protect. What advice do any of you have to share if I may ask.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

you have land, so start now and begin using it to produce more than grass that has to be mowed. 

Start with chickens, rabbits, goats and pigs. You have room for all of them, but you need to look into the legalities of the "compound of handicapped"... if it's a family thing and there's no .gov agencies involved, you've probably got much less to worry about, but if you're accepting checks from BIA, or some other kind of dept, you're going to have all kinds of legal issues to make sure you are NOT violating before you do!

short of livestock, you can plant a very large garden, and you can grow hay! 

You should look into local, county and state laws on starting a fishing stock pond, if it's somethign you can do... maybe you should do it! depends on rainfall in your area and if you like fish lol

maximize what you have, and try to keep a low profile.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

How many people are we talking about and how many are interested and capable of gardening or raising animals.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

It sounds like you have a nice location, but I think some background on how far along you are in prepping would lead to better advice. Do you have a rough sense of how long you could last on stored supplies for yourselves, plus those that plan to join you?

Is the group all on board, or are a few people prepping for a larger group? How large is the group? You mention handicaps. We've had a lot of people on the forum with a variety of health issues to be overcome, but I am wondering how severe the handicaps are we are talking about and what extra needs may need to be considered.

We all have different challenges to overcome in prepping. It sounds like yours might require a little thought.


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## northstarprepper (Mar 19, 2013)

You will also need to consider medical care and medicines that may be necessary for the residents. Specifically, any medicines that require prescriptions...do you have access to enough to keep your people in good health? Food, water, shelter (heat and protection from rain, snow, etc.) are next. Then you get into security and long term survival. Take one step at a time and ask questions or read the many forums on here for information. There is a ton of great info already on this site in past threads that can be read easily. Take your time. 

Get your whole group involved, because trying to do all of the work by yourself will burn you out. Even if you are in charge by their own admission, delegate tasks to keep everyone participating and active in preparing the site for potential disasters. As you get better prepared, do some test drills to see how people respond. One important thing is to find the safest place to ride out severe weather or other real trouble and arrange how to account for all of your people afterward. Those are a few thoughts to start with. Good luck.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

myrtle55 said:


> We live on 5 acres outside a city of,about 20,000 ppl. We r 2 - 3 hours from a major city..with only one road in from said city. We r prepping to stay put, but we r a compound of handicapped folks. We have 2 young couples that will come here if shtf to help work and protect. What advice do any of you have to share if I may ask.


Are you up in the foothills? How are you orientated to the sun? Do you have a spring or well? One thing I recommend is to have a large water storage tank to feed spring or well water into, preferably on high ground or on a stand at least above what the ceiling of your home is, that way you'll have gravity feed in case of power outages. Have it set up as a pump through, that is pump from the well into it using float switches to set the level and have a secondary pump and pressure tank to pull from the storage tank for house pressure. The system we have is supplied from a spring on timber companies land for which we have water rights. A few years back I put a 460' 1" shed. 40 PVC line in the ground from the spring collector down to the top of our property where we hand cast a 1,100 gallon concrete cistern which gives us 25 psi in our home. My neighbor on our West side also has a gravity feed system from another spring and our neighbor on the East side has a feed through system and just installed a spring fed 2,500 gallon tank on high ground behind his home at roof top level. If you're having to pump water you will certainly need an alternative power source for pumps such as a windmill, generator, solar system or a high quality deep well hand pump. If you are living on the N.W. side of the peninsula you are probably getting plenty of rain and rainwater storage is something to consider. Depending on how far inland you are from the Straits you may get enough constant wind to run a windmill, one for pumping water and one or more for generating electricity to charge batteries for backup power. In somewhat knowing the area you may not get enough annual sunlight time for solar panels to be cost effective. If you live on the N.E. side, depending on how far down, you may be in more of a rain shaddow from the Olympic Mtns., and actually get very little rain but perhaps more sun. I stress on WATER because it is the core of life. It's one of the first things that people cry for when disaster strikes and very often people haven't given thought to that even though they may live in disaster prone areas.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

I can appreciate your situation since we have two handicapped kids in our family. I cannot imagine having a compound made up entirely of handicapped individuals with only a few young people for a support system. 

If you have folks that are long term pharmaceutical dependent you really need to start laying in long term supplies of prescriptions for them. I know that many things like Crestor are just not made in a generic form so costs can be astronomical. Try and get you doctors to prescribe generic versions of your meds with minimum 90 day at a time fills. Fill them as often as you can and try to have on hand up to a year's worth of RX. 

spend time now getting all your shots and exams up to date. Take care of elective surgeries as quickly as you can. 

If you wear glasses have at least one extra pair on hand at all times. If you can afford it get your vision corrected by surgery so you don't have to worry about that when the time comes. Get checked for cataracts now. Also any dental work you can do to avoid problems when there will be no one to help will be smart.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

There are 7 full timers aged from 78 to 8, kids do composite,g and wood splitting and garden work. We had food for a,year for,3,of us then the rest moved in and probably 5 more or so would arrive when shtf. We have multiple tools, firearms, quads, 4 wheel drive vehicles, big dog, enormous first aid supply, medium amt of meds squirrels away. At tee feet above sea level and 17 miles from mountains not too worried about Tsunami or mudslides . Earthquake maybe tho. And newest is large cargo trailer. Probably could stretch food to 5 months for all now. We have 150 gal fresh water stored and 250 gal of rainwater most times. Have a berkey, lots of camping equipment for all. So not too bad


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

400 feet not tee feet. This is all in 1st year on property. Will be our first garden this year. Problem is its all disorganized and I am overwhelmed with all the chaos of it. I don't like my gut feelings..so ideas?


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

myrtle55 said:


> 400 feet not tee feet. This is all in 1st year on property. Will be our first garden this year. Problem is its all disorganized and I am overwhelmed with all the chaos of it. I don't like my gut feelings..so ideas?


We know exactly how you feel, those gut feelings can be overwhelming and can certainly effect ones financial abilities. We often run across situations where we know we have to spend the money immediately, otherwise the cost of what we need in a short period of time will become unaffordable. With the amount of people you have on your property, IMHO, you definitely need much more water storage. I've experienced an incident where one person went through 1,500 gallons of water in just a few days, surprisingly it was because of an upstairs toilet that the float valve was set too high. It didn't seem to her that it was running over the overflow in the toilet tank enough to go through that much water but I did some figures that were surprising even to me on how fast it could go through so many gallons. Most certainly water is the number one thing for a bug in situation and it never hurts to have more than what you think you need. I've been giving much thought to adding another 1,500 gallons of storage along side of the existing cistern and even then I wonder if that will be enough if we take in a few family and friends for a SHTF situation.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

When I was a teen we had a five thousand gallon cistern. With a good 150"+ of rain per year the tank was overflowing most of the year. There were dry periods and we did run out on occasion. Short showers and limited flushing were SOP. For the most part, with the three of us and heavy rain this was adequate. When my two brothers came along changes were necessary. A free standing swimming pool with a plastic liner bridged the gap for a few years till Dad added the garage with a cistern built into the foundation. Later a tank off an old water truck was added to the system. Water saving practices were instituted year around as those are not habits that you can turn on and off at will.

I mention this only to point out how much a family can go through.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

myrtle55 said:


> There are 7 full timers aged from 78 to 8, kids do composite,g and wood splitting and garden work. We had food for a,year for,3,of us then the rest moved in and probably 5 more or so would arrive when shtf. We have multiple tools, firearms, quads, 4 wheel drive vehicles, big dog, enormous first aid supply, medium amt of meds squirrels away. At tee feet above sea level and 17 miles from mountains not too worried about Tsunami or mudslides . Earthquake maybe tho. And newest is large cargo trailer. Probably could stretch food to 5 months for all now. We have 150 gal fresh water stored and 250 gal of rainwater most times. Have a berkey, lots of camping equipment for all. So not too bad


That's not too bad. You do need food for the larger group, and either more water storage, or better yet a well or other source that will be there when the storage runs out.

Assuming the folks who would come to you are far enough away to be out of earthquake territory, you need a mutual backup agreement with each other so you can go there in the event of an earthquake.

I am going to assume that the disabilities mentioned in the first post are covered, but if you have medical equipment that requires electricity, then you need backups in Faraday cages and a method of generating electricity.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

What exactly is a cistern? Holding tank for rainwater or, ???


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

myrtle55 said:


> What exactly is a cistern? Holding tank for rainwater or, ???


Yes, a cistern is a large holding tank for water sometimes made of metal, but usually made of concrete, like what Viking described above. You can often see them built into the basement floors of old homes, like what Caribou described above. They are often fed by a natural spring, or lacking that, filled by rain fall.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

We are on public water..but the place came with a 70 ft or taller water windmill . We have no well, and I can't find anyone that can fix the windmill. It has all the parts but the generator is shot. (Think that's what it's called) but I am also bout broke right now. The dang thing screams so loud in the wind the neighbors complain so we tied it off for now so it wouldn't spin. So, other than rainwater I have nothing else to fill a cistern. We did just add,another 150 gal storage, but nothing big time


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

myrtle55 said:


> We are on public water..but the place came with a 70 ft or taller water windmill . We have no well, and I can't find anyone that can fix the windmill. It has all the parts but the generator is shot. (Think that's what it's called) but I am also bout broke right now. The dang thing screams so loud in the wind the neighbors complain so we tied it off for now so it wouldn't spin. So, other than rainwater I have nothing else to fill a cistern. We did just add,another 150 gal storage, but nothing big time


Depending on the cost of public water you could do a feed from it into a large tank with a float valve then all that's needed is about a 1/2 hp water pump pulling off the bottom outlet of the tank which would feed a pressure tank for your home. Thing is unless the public water system is from a water tower or reservoir that's on high ground, if grid power goes down you won't have water. If it's from a water tower it wouldn't be too long before it runs out because it needs to be pumped into by electric pumps unless the water company has backup generators to run those pumps. I'm surprised that since you live outside a city that your property doesn't have a well on it. When I lived in the Erland's Point area my foster parents had a well when I was younger but I think it was the county that made everyone hook up to public water systems, after that the well could only be used for lawns and gardens. Is that what you have to deal with? Too bad if it is because besides the metered cost there is usually chlorine to deal with, via Berkey filtering. Oh yeah, if you could have a well drilled that's a large chunk of money when you are already struggling to make ends meet. However, adding a larger tank for rainwater would be a good start.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

myrtle55 said:


> We are on public water..but the place came with a 70 ft or taller water windmill . We have no well, and I can't find anyone that can fix the windmill. It has all the parts but the generator is shot. (Think that's what it's called) but I am also bout broke right now. The dang thing screams so loud in the wind the neighbors complain so we tied it off for now so it wouldn't spin. So, other than rainwater I have nothing else to fill a cistern. We did just add,another 150 gal storage, but nothing big time


If there is no well and the windmill has a generator, it sounds like it is for the purpose of generating electricity, not pumping water. Once you come up with the funds it is worth fixing. As for the noise, it will generate some, but lubrication will probably help. Since you have it, I'd make it a priority. You can find well drillers anywhere in the country.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

The noise is from the rusted part at base of blade assembly. Ad it's def a water mill but he had it here for looks only


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

myrtle55 said:


> The noise is from the rusted part at base of blade assembly. Ad it's def a water mill but he had it here for looks only


The rust sounds fixablr, but if there is no well, where is it pumping from?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

You might want to get someone out to water witch your property. That mill is an awful expensive garden gnome so I'm guessing that it is placed where it is for a reason. Were I doing a well project on a limited budget I would first witch my property. I might then buy the windmill because that was what I could afford at the time. It is not impossible that what you have is an unfinished project.

Talk to a well driller, he should be able to tell you how deep the wells in your area are and he might be able to repair your windmill or know who could.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

myrtle55 said:


> The noise is from the rusted part at base of blade assembly. Ad it's def a water mill but he had it here for looks only


 If you can take a picture of it, as the saying goes "a picture is worth a thousand words."


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

You can build a "Gin Pole" with a "Rooster Head" pulley on the top and use it to do the repairs yourself.

That is how I do my repairs on towers, etc.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

According to family and neighbors he really did do it for looks..an expensive garden gnome. I haven't given enough up yet, just financially stalled


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

myrtle55 said:


> According to family and neighbors he really did do it for looks..


Bummer.

Oh well, maybe you can add rainwater catchment? 
I can catch and hold about 2800 gallons.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

I can catch a ton of rainwater, just can't find holding tanks big enuf..or,can't afford the companies that make them. Not sure which is the problem yet


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

myrtle55 said:


> I can catch a ton of rainwater, just can't find holding tanks big enuf..or, can't afford the companies that make them.


What area/region of which state are you in?


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

Washington state, the water side


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

Pacific northwest. Usually plenty of rain here and have catch systems set up to gather it. .have a series of 55 gal drums connected to each other by overflow hoses which works well, Just can't hold more than 300 gal at a time


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

The water sounds like with a little work and throwing money at it over time things will work out. And you have appropriate property and conditions for food production. Maybe some of your health needs and security concerns can be handled with a bit of a larger community. Not so much on your property but maybe you have a doctor or nurse living down the road you havent met yet. Maybe a single mom with a couple strapping young teenagers you could hire from time to time to develop a relationship prior to an event. Im not talking about a prepping network just developing relationships that will pay off later. 

Im always hearing about mudslides in the northwest. Do you have a good bugout plan for the group that can be handled quickly with gear and goods considering some of the physical limitations you feel your group has?
I guess if I were in your shoes those 4 things (reliable clean water, some food production and storage, developing relationships that will help limit health workload and security concerns considering your groups limitations, and a quick way to unass the area in a survivable manner) would be my priorties. I know they sound broad and general but thats just how I found myself organizing your situation in my head. Good luck and keep us updated with your trials so we can all learn as you go


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

How big of a storage would you like?


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

We are in no way that I can figure in danger of mudslides here, we are rolling flatlands 
Bought this place for it's set up if natural disasters hit us. We are also Talking about having a hot dog cookout this summer to meet the neighbors to see who we have here.we know they all are armed as everyone shoots in their yards for practice or for coyotes
We have 4 armed of the 7 of us and i am about to start teaching oldest of my grandkids to shoot, and my son and his wife and daughter just live around the corner and other son and wife about 8 miles from us so going in to shtf, there are additional able bodies here but for now they work a lot of hours out of town. They assist when they are around buy not around that much. As you can see,, my food and water storage are going to have to accommodate 12 plus people. I just hope there is time to get stuff to a safe accumulation status... just keep rolling along. At least prepping gives me some instant gratification


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

Caribou said:


> How big of a storage would you like?


Would love to be able to have about 1000 gal, set up to fill with rain.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

myrtle55 said:


> Would love to be able to have about 1000 gal, set up to fill with rain.


Small steps can get you there and even further. In reality we have been taking small steps in putting things together on our property since we bought it in 1981. My wife, very young son and I lived in a 17' travel trailer (minus 3' for the tongue), plus a small added shed with a few questionable wood stoves over those years until getting a really good one, for 17 years. At 71 years of age I'm still building things, decks, shed for tool storage and solar equipment and sometime in the near future putting up 300' of fence separating us from the county road.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

myrtle55 said:


> Would love to be able to have about 1000 gal, set up to fill with rain.


Just for reference, my wife and I could stretch a thousand gallons to last a month. Flushing with the laundry water we could extend that a bit.

Starting at around a thousand bucks you can get an above ground pool. This would give you way more than a thousand gallons of water. Dig a hole, build a framework, and add a plastic liner. This will probably be a bit more expensive but not much. There are lots of ways to build a cistern.

Here is a link to an article on cisterns that might be helpful.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/01/water-cistern-facts-by-rex-x.html


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

How much rainfall do you get in your area in one average year? I would like (eventually) 5000 gallons capacity because in this part of Texas it sometimes doesn't rain for several months!! If your rains are consistent, 1000 gallons should be sufficient.

Portland area:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/tls/4416814370.html


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Viking said:


> Small steps can get you there and even further. In reality we have been taking small steps in putting thing together on our property since we bought it in 1981. My wife, very young son and I lived in a 17' travel trailer (minus 3' for the tongue), plus a small added shed with a few questionable wood stoves over those years until getting a really good one, for 17 years. At 71 years of age I'm still building things, decks, shed for tool storage and solar equipment and sometime in the near future putting up 300' of fence separating us from the county road.


Small steps are what most of us do most of the time. When I feel like I am not making progress I look back and realize that year to year I am making real progress. Day to day it seems inconsequential.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

You can build an in ground cistern by digging a square hole , Lining it with treated wood,(like a basement) and then carefully lining the wood with thick clear plastic, at 6.23 imp gallons a cubic foot it doesn't take a huge space to hold 1000 gallons.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

I second that statement! Until I started chatting with all of you I didn't realize what I already did this last year..and u all give me hope of more success


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

Tirediron said:


> You can build an in ground cistern by digging a square hole , Lining it with treated wood,(like a basement) and then carefully lining the wood with thick clear plastic, at 6.23 imp gallons a cubic foot it doesn't take a huge space to hold 1000 gallons.


That actually sounds do able. What to cover it with? ....I am optimistic, thank you!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

If I were going to do an in ground cistern I would try and think ahead about placement. What I mean is, water storage is great but hauling water is a pain and an in ground cistern doesnt provide water pressure. Having it close to where I would eventually put an above ground cistern capable of providing water pressure and doubling my water reserve seems like a good idea. I could be over thinking this and there is probably an easy answer im not thinking of but the closer the two cisterns the less energy it would take a solar or hand type pump to transfer water from one to the other. That way you could solve immediate concerns and have an energy efficient way to expand and improve.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> ... an in ground cistern doesn't provide water pressure.... hand type pump to transfer water


I would not be opposed to having to use a hand pump to draw water from an underground cistern. It would be far better than pulling it up with a bucket.

If you are "in place" and have no plans to move, you can look into pouring a concrete underground cistern at some point. My grandfather dug (and poured) the one on our farm in North Dakota by hand, (it is 30 feet deep and 20 feet in diameter!!)

My friends in Montana that have concrete cisterns have all built small buildings over them.


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