# A Prepper Predicament



## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Yes, I use alliteration..lol..but this is a serious situation with me and I'm sure there are many others who got started prepping late and are now racing against the clock so to speak, to prepare for the worst. I'll use my example: other than buying some gold and silver a couple years ago, I did not start prepping for physical survival until June this year. I've made very good progress in accumulating food, some water and many of the other supplies that one would want for survival for my wife and I for maybe 6-9 months. But the worst case scenario is one in which the grid, law&order and many other survival props would not yet be in place after that time and may not be for a year or two. So, what do I do after 6-9 months if that scenario exists? We live in a small rural town and just can't up and buy an off grid house in the country right now, even if I could find a good one, particularly with Winter coming, although I believe that off the grid self-sufficiency is the only chance we have for long term survival, at least with the worst case scenario. I guess we just hope the "collapse" is not as bad as our worst nightmare or it doesn't happen for a year or more to give us more time to set up an off grid home. I'm thinking of putting an ad in a regional newspaper (with just an email address for security) looking for preppers in this area for a possible BOL if they have an off grid place...I'm sure there are many of you who started late and in the same situation..what are your thoughts/plans?


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Meetup.com has local prepper groups on it. I would try that first.

Secondly, even if you only have 9 months worth of preps, you are still WAY ahead of the general population. Keep prepping and before you know it, you'll have a year's worth of food/water. Use as many low cost and free preps as you can. Don't worry about being a gear whore. 

Thirdly, living in a small rural town is not all that bad. If you had an off grid home in the middle of nowhere, how would you and your wife defend it against a group? Perhaps your location is better than you realize. If you network with other preppers, they could use your location as their BOL. 

Keep plugging along. Be encouraged.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

You're right that I think my present location would be better than an isolated spot with JUST the wife and I so I'm ok with the 6-9 months here BUT it's after the supplies run out that I would need that off grid BOL...and after the SHTF, it'll be too late to make any connections..


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You really need to get enough stuff to be prepared for a year. Including ways to heat your home and cook your food. And have some type of toilet you make out of a 5 gallon bucket. You also really, really need to have as much water as you have space for. Preferably a year's worth. It's expensive but you can get new 55 gallon water barrels. Nothing will put you in danger like having to find and haul water great distances every day. In contrast, you can dump your poo bucket every day at 3am when it will be a lot safer. Here's one place to buy barrels:

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbarrels.html?gclid=CJit7sf02rICFVBgMgodmGUAoQ

My wife and I will be bugging in. My stepson and his wife will be coming. He knows how to use a gun and he's a night owl. Between us at least one of us will be awake with a gun handy at all times. I think it's critical to have a second person who can do that. If you have to join other preppers to have that it's worth doing.


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## -JohnD- (Sep 16, 2012)

db2469 said:


> You're right that I think my present location would be better than an isolated spot with JUST the wife and I so I'm ok with the 6-9 months here BUT it's after the supplies run out that I would need that off grid BOL...and after the SHTF, it'll be too late to make any connections..


Living in a small town is a good thing. If you have 6 to 9 months of supplies by the time they start running low more than likely the people around you will have organized into a self-supporting group. They may not have power, city water, etc... back up and running but should have "gelled" and started growing crops and livestock and doing local trading for supplies and providing security for the area........
If not they will all be dead and you have your own town to work with!!


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

BillS said:


> You really need to get enough stuff to be prepared for a year. Including ways to heat your home and cook your food. And have some type of toilet you make out of a 5 gallon bucket. You also really, really need to have as much water as you have space for. Preferably a year's worth. It's expensive but you can get new 55 gallon water barrels. Nothing will put you in danger like having to find and haul water great distances every day. In contrast, you can dump your poo bucket every day at 3am when it will be a lot safer. Here's one place to buy barrels:
> 
> http://www.bayteccontainers.com/waterbarrels.html?gclid=CJit7sf02rICFVBgMgodmGUAoQ
> 
> My wife and I will be bugging in. My stepson and his wife will be coming. He knows how to use a gun and he's a night owl. Between us at least one of us will be awake with a gun handy at all times. I think it's critical to have a second person who can do that. If you have to join other preppers to have that it's worth doing.


Thanks but I have most of that covered but what about after the supplies run out and there is still civil unrest, no grid, etc....what are YOU going to do because I know you're in a similar boat? We need a self-sufficient off grid residence and lifestyle..


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## RoadRash (Sep 29, 2010)

My BOL is a small community of 75 homes / cotttages half live there year round only 1 road in or out. Pretty good community from talking with neighbors all seem to have a bit of stockpile of supplies as its a 20 min drive to store. Although I do not know most of em that well I am sure we would all stand together to protect what we have.


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## BadgerPeak (Sep 25, 2012)

As others have said, keep adding to your stores as you are able. None of us get totally prepared within a year. Even if we had the money, it takes longer than that to learn what works and what doesn't.

Focus on changing your lifestyle instead of storing up enough junk to support your current lifestyle. No matter how much you store, you will be asking yourself the same question. "In 6 months, when I run out, then what?" "In 2 years, when I run out, then what?" "In 5 years, when I run out, then what?" 

You can't store enough food for every scenario, but you can learn to forage efficiently, garden, grow indoors with aquaponics, etc. You can't store a lifetime supply of water, but you can find ways to replenish your stores. Much of it is just a shift in thinking.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

roadrash said:


> My BOL is a small community of 75 homes / cotttages half live there year round only 1 road in or out. Pretty good community from talking with neighbors all seem to have a bit of stockpile of supplies as its a 20 min drive to store. Although I do not know most of em that well I am sure we would all stand together to protect what we have.


sounds nice BUT starvation changes people!


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

db2469 said:


> Yes, I use alliteration..lol..but this is a serious situation with me and I'm sure there are many others who got started prepping late and are now racing against the clock so to speak, to prepare for the worst. I'll use my example: other than buying some gold and silver a couple years ago, I did not start prepping for physical survival until June this year. I've made very good progress in accumulating food, some water and many of the other supplies that one would want for survival for my wife and I for maybe 6-9 months. But the worst case scenario is one in which the grid, law&order and many other survival props would not yet be in place after that time and may not be for a year or two. So, what do I do after 6-9 months if that scenario exists? We live in a small rural town and just can't up and buy an off grid house in the country right now, even if I could find a good one, particularly with Winter coming, although I believe that off the grid self-sufficiency is the only chance we have for long term survival, at least with the worst case scenario. I guess we just hope the "collapse" is not as bad as our worst nightmare or it doesn't happen for a year or more to give us more time to set up an off grid home. I'm thinking of putting an ad in a regional newspaper (with just an email address for security) looking for preppers in this area for a possible BOL if they have an off grid place...I'm sure there are many of you who started late and in the same situation..what are your thoughts/plans?


Been prepping 1973. Still ain't there. Have 18-24 months of food. So what. Have big garden every year. Not big enough. Have plenty of self defense items. Only works if I'm ready when it happens. Have minor livestock. Not enough.

I could go on and on. Living an off grid, self reliant life style would be the tops, but still no guarantees.

You do the best you can and plan well with what you have. Try to make sure you have the basic things it takes to stay alive. Water, food, cooking/heating, gardening, shelter.

Keep on working at it.

Jimmy


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

1) wild food foraging...learn it and not just for eating. some wild foods/plants are good for medicinal needs too
2) don't just store water....learn to collect and filter it
3) Garden seeds....heirlooms and learn to use every space and containers you have
4) Hunting...learn how to hunt, when to hunt and how to process what you hunt so it'll keep.

The key to survival is knowledge


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

If the grid doesn't come back up, so what? Unless you're not learning primitive skills, it won't be much of an issue. We're past the point of wild game and wild plants being able to sustain the population, so you will have to garden and raise your own livestock if you plan to eat.

It's difficult to phrase, but whatever the "order" is on the other side of this event, it HAS to be different from what exists now. If it is the same, then what's the point? It just amounts to setting up future generations for a similar failure.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Baby steps first.
Get some way to recharge batteries so you can run electronics (solar probably.) That gives you access to stored knowledge which can show you what you can adapt/build for more electrical resources.
Learn how to build a solar still of some sort so you'll have potable water. Alternate: Well with a hand pump.
Get a solar cooker so you can cook food without needing other resources. Alternate: Wood stove.
Seeds for a garden.
Develop skillsets that will be valuable post-SHTF.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

The biggest asset is the mindset. If society breaks down and 9 months later things are still dicey then by that time people will have banded together. For protection, to farm and raise livestock and for general society. After all, people are very sociable animals even though some think they aren't.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

db, Genevieve and Marcus have some good ideas. Plus I know you are picking up ideas everyday from this site. You are already way ahead of most people, just keep doing as you are doing. If you are extra worried then maybe talk to a couple local farmers about buying local products. That way you could be set-up with them if the crap does happen.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

What's with the "off-grid" emphasis? We live off-grid with solar power and have for years but even in our case it's seen as a temporary response to a long-term situation. Electronics will eventually wear out. Battery life expectancy is at best ten years. 

If you learn to generate your own electricity you may be able to go longer but it takes technology to produce electrically powered tools. If it's that bad that long you'd be better off with steam or water power as used in the 1800's. It's relatively low technology so the machinery can be made under primitive conditions. 

You need to be able to stay warm, dry, fed, hydrated and secure basically forever. Have plans and materials in place to do these things until you can come up with locally sustainable and renewable ways to stay alive. 

In a long-term situation, stored supplies are there only to get you to the point you can be self-sufficient. That's going to be the first successful harvest from your garden. The same with stored energy supplies, water and every other need that you have.

Our "fall-back" plan is to be able to live a primitive, stone-age life if that's what's necessary.

For long term survival it's going to be more what you know and can do than what you have stored up. Learn the skills now. Wilderness survival books are good to learn from as are the Foxfire series that tell how the people in the Appalachian Mountains lived. They're full of info on how to be self-sufficient.

Our personal belief is that everyone should have the supplies to last one year and the skills needed to live forever after that.

In answer to your question ... Learn the skills, learn the skills, learn the skills!!!!!


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## PennyPincher (Dec 5, 2011)

db- you are in panic mode. Please calm down. You need to realize that no one can prepare for everything. Mindset is number 1 - knowing that you will figure out how to get through a crisis is the most important aspect. Then you need to think it through and get through the crisis. If you have items to aid you that's a bonus (food, water, skills) but eventually you will come up short if the 'crisis' lasts too long. So prepare what you can.No one will get through a major SHTF scenario alone. If you don't know your neighbors - get to know them. Most may be oblivious and not have enough food in their house fo 3 days, nevermind 3 weeks, months or years. Also realise that if there is a major SHTF situation, normal will change. People do not need electricity to live. Really! Now, if your food storage depends on electricty that would be bad. If your food 'preps' depend on having water and the ability to cook and you don't have that- good luck. I recently started canning and it is awesome. It's definitely more time intensive but when/if SHTF I have meals ready to eat that do not need cooking or water. I also have dehydrated food but my focus right now is on stuff I can eat as is (so canned). I currently can soups, chili, and chicken. Do what you can. Store what you eat and eat what you store. You can also store seeds for post apocalypse when you can start growing food. I live in the northeast so cold is a concern here. I know how to make a rocket mass heater and could build it in the middle of the house to keep us warm if I had to. I know how to filter water with natural resources. Eventually I will be able to buy a filter but even that may fail when needed or not be where I am at. That's just an idea to start. So, please calm down and step away fromthe ledge.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks all and Penny Pincher, I'm not in panic mode more than the usual fear of what's ahead, I'm just getting suggestions on planning for the aftermath...it sounds like you're doing well..but you're all right, I need to learn skills!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Swap you my skills for 6 months non gmo gluten free dehydrated food.

One hint free.
you're too far north.hate us "hicks" all you want, education won't split wood or keep you warm.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Unless you don't know that green wood does not burn well.... LOL


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Unless you don't know that green wood does not burn well.... LOL


It doesn't in a stove, but it burns just fine when you toss it in with some 20"+ diameter logs or a brush fire.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

This is me and how I started:

What can I do and what can't I do?

If you know that you won't have meat to raise, then get online and start buying dehydrated meat.

Water, if you have no source other than rain, start buying, get rain barrel started and get Berkey filters.

What can you grow? Tomatoes? Get seeds and start learning to seed start. 

Have your wife view Wendy DeWitts videos on food storage. That will help.

How will you cook? Sun oven, rocket stove? Or open fire? 

How will you keep warm? 

It's hard to help when we don't know your availabilities to self substaining, and that's ok. 

Being off grid is really the least of my worries, I just worry about my money not being worth anything and not being able to purchase, say an antibiotic if we were to need it. 

Anyway....


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

zombieresponder said:


> We're past the point of wild game and wild plants being able to sustain the population, so you will have to garden and raise your own livestock if you plan to eat.
> 
> .


I wish more would understand that...there is NOT enough wild game out there for every gun owner...
thank you Lord for Dinty Moore and Sweet Sue!!


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Ah but that also depends on where you live and the use of that game. If you shoot it and only take the best cuts and leave the rest then yes I would say that there is a problem with wildlife being able to sustain the population.

Another thing is that you also need to learn how to stretch your supplies. There was a reason that there were a lot of soups, stews and such back in the pioneering days. Not only that it was a stick to your ribs easy to cook meal but also the fact that they could stretch their meat supplies by adding beans, potatoes etc. 

A family of 4 could be fed on what 2 would eat normally as steaks or roasts.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

another reason for stews and soups was alot of meat was dried(un-cooked). If you just ate it it would be raw meat that you were eating(and hard to chew). So you cooked it in soup or stew, the meat got soft(and cooked) and you stretched your food budget.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I have accumulated a years worth of food and don't think I'm going any further than that. The chief of security will have a years worth also in another 2 months. I figure he will eat 1 # a day. I figure after a year most of the caos will be over and I can get on about the business of living although differently that before.

I want to make life more of an adventure foraging and using what I have observed around me. Where I live the lake has plenty of fish, there are plenty of water fowl in the marshes and there are farm fields to be gleaned along with orchardes. There is also an abundant supply of deer and small game. I want to add some traps and snares to my preps next.

My problem is finding some place to melt away to. I would like to disappear from society until the worst is over and then maybe be more visual. I do think about the small group survival plan, but haven't yet met anyone in my area as serious as I am about prepping, and I would like to maintain my independance. Where I live has become populated enough and there isn't any place near by that is low key enough to disappear to.

I prefer to be non descript enough that I will only use a gun to feed myself and not for protection. I prefer to look like I have nothing like the others who wont.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

freeze dried foods, like 1 month per person ARK buckets, and TVP buckets with several hundred servings can be bought at costco.com Those are "food" but they aren't really what you want to completely rely on, imo. 

Don't forget the British had victory gardens and every house had one even during the blitz! now, back then people were a lot more community minded, and there was definitely a driving factor to pull together, but my point is, that with very little space (like london back yards) you can have a garden.

As mentioned in this post, get heirloom seeds, and get skills. Store what you NEED to get from that conversion period from the way it is now into the way it will be in a SHTF scenario. Everything you do today that makes it easier on you, increases your chances to pull through and help your family survive some very serious rough times ahead.

As for the commercially available products, absolutely get them, but the sooner you transition from today into tomorrow by growing your own produce, maybe your own rabbitry for protein, a couple laying hens or ducks for eggs... now you've got a way to save those emergency food stores for when the crops fail, or barter them! And meanwhile you just keep on living as best you can with what you prepared and be ready to defend it at the drop of a hat. (unfortunately, you will need to be ready to do that too)

Since you want to "melt away" from a lake that is obviously water, but also has water fowl and plenty of fish, I'm guessing it's in a populated community. My suggestion is do everything possible to avoid that area if things really go sideways. Refugees may not have food and water, but they do know they need it... and they might also have anything from an AK to a couple top of the line handguns (and yet, no food or water!). Being in the same spot as EVERYONE who just discovered they literally have NOTHING is a bad place in my opinion. I've seen stress on peoples faces here when cars are backed up for topping off when we have firestorms, and that's just fire, we have those randomly all the time! Wait until it's something really big. 

As far as I am concerned, my plan is to stay as far away as possible from anywhere people are congregating. I dont want to be part of their stress, their panic, their mob mentality... if they come to me, that sucks, and I'll have to deal with that and nobody is going to like it, but I will NOT go there to them.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

Keep yourself and significant others healthy and athletically fit. That helps your body adapt to stress as well as helps you perform new functions that you will have to learn to perform ( carrying water, cutting wood, long hikes) etc. Hunting is a good skill to have but trapping is just as important if not more so. Traps and snares work while you are sleeping or performing other chores. By not hunting every day you save those calories also. The more you are out and about the better the chance of injury or running into some undesirables of the 2 legged type. It's similar to set lines for fishing, just remember to check them. We plan on bugging in mainly because under martial law scenarios it's very easy to lock down our town, (very few roads and a large military presence). I have to accept the fact that my preps at my BOL may be gone when I get there. While we're locked down, outlying areas will be free to wander as they please. And when we do get to leave, it's a bit of a drive to the boat launch. We will convoy with our friends who own a boat and hope for the best. If SHTF during an interior Alaska winter, that changes all dynamics and that is different topic altogether. The population in my house will increase 6-7 times when SHTF. For holidays etc. I give the gift of food and hopefully they haven't eaten it all before they get here. We started raising some chickens and we've always had a garden some years better than others. Learn local plants you can eat to supplement what you have. Remember you will never be as prepared as you want to be, just keep plugging away and learn skills for barter, medical, woodwork, smithing etc. Good luck and hang in there. You are already ahead of most of America.
The whole world sucks,America sucks a lot less,and Alaska don't suck at all.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

db2469 said:


> I'm sure there are many of you who started late and in the same situation..what are your thoughts/plans?


Sounds like you are off to a good start if you live in a rural area. Why can you not move a few miles further out? Places tend to be cheaper the farther out you are, provided you are not in some resort area. If you get a place that is on grid you have some real advantages primarily that you have power as you build/remodel your homestead. You do not have to be completely self sustaining immediately. In fact an all or nothing proposition may be a recipe for failure. It takes awhile to figure out what crop grow best on your land what livestock works best for you, even what power sources work best. As well as giving you time to adjust to a self sustaining way of living. So having a place that you can eventually take off grid has some real advantages over an off grid place.

If you really want to be off grid. Why not buy land as far out as is reasonable for you. Land is always much cheaper than than a house. Stick a cheap disposable mobile or RV on it. Than, you can build as your budget allows. In the mean time you can establish a garden, livestock and develop a relationship with the land.

Other than your actual living arrangements. Develope as many skill sets and take as many courses as you can, carpentry, welding,small engine repair, auto mechanics, first aid, nursing, EMT, animal husbandry, agricultural, anything and every thing you think you will need to know to be self reliant. Many community colleges and voc schools will allow you to audit classes for very little or free if you are not looking for a grade


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Good info LR...I don't WANT to live off grid, just want the capability in case the grid goes down for a long time after the SHTF...right now in my neighborhood, I have town water, not septic as the water table is so high, have no well and would stand out to looters if I had solar panels...I can live off grid for awhile in my house, but it's survival long term that I need to plan for and you mention taking courses, etc...good ideas IF we have the time before all hell breaks loose! And to impede progress my wife isn't on board with prepping enough at this point to sell our comfy house and start roughing it in the sticks..


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

The one main thing I tell people about being prepared is having plenty of water, mainly because you will die very quickly without it and secondarily without electrical power, unless you have a spring, it won't get into your home. I tell people if they have a back yard big enough to put a storage tank do it and run your water system through it using a secondary pump and pressure tank so that the water in the tank is always fresh. Have a faucet on the bottom to get water if and when the power is out. Better to have the tank on high ground or on a stand if possible. Hide it with a yard fence. Minimum of 1000 gallons if possible. If one doesn't have room for a large tank then 5 to 7 gallon water containers put in crawl spaces, closets, laundry room or under beds. Just make sure you refresh the water in containers regularly. I happen to be fortunate in developing a spring that feeds a large concrete tank at the top of our property which gives us 25 psi in our home. Overflow is piped down to the garden area for watering fruit and nut trees and whatever I might grow for veggies. Back in 1990 the black poly pipes, often above ground, from the spring froze up and believe me we learned very fast just how precious water can be. Just a short time after that I buried 460 feet of new 1" schedule 40 line from the spring to the cistern, all with a slope so there is no pooling and no more freezing.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

db2469 said:


> I have town water, not septic as the water table is so high, have no well and would stand out to looters if I had solar panels...I can live off grid for awhile in my house, but it's survival long term that I need to plan for and you mention taking courses, etc...good ideas IF we have the time before all hell breaks loose! And to impede progress my wife isn't on board with prepping enough at this point to sell our comfy house and start roughing it in the sticks..


You are correct being water and sewer dependent IS a major issue. It is hard to make suggestions not knowing your specifics. How rural are you already? How close is the closest big city? Do you own or buying your house? Can I assume that you work locally without to big of a commute? If you are 100 miles away from the nearest big city moving 20 miles out from the nearest town or large farms/ranches. Will give you an adequate buffer from the marauding hordes. If you rent there are rentals in the sticks for less than what you pay now. You won't be dependent on your town for water and sewer. You will be able to garden, raise livestock develop self reliant skills sets. As well as begin to acquire and accumulate the tools and equipment that you will need. Finding a place with a well and septic and power would provide the comfort that your wife is accustomed to. By taking action to become self sustaining now means that when SHTF you will be able to continue to provide her with the same comforts and standard of living you both enjoy now. So the best suggestion I can make is to start now, renting or buying the longer you wait the farther behind the eight ball you get. That is also true about training and taking courses. Yes it may happen that the SHTF before you finish but the sooner that you start the more you will know when it does. Putting it off because there is not enough time only means that is just that much more you do not know, when you need it. If it does not all go south in a hand basket well than you will still be able to build a building, weld, fix your car, and small engines, know how to can, garden, raise livestock, provide first aid if someone gets hurt, be able to effectively defend yourself and family if attacked.

I think you are going in the right direction, maybe stuck on all the reasons why you can't. Speaking from experience that is most folks pit fall. Which is why I keep coming back to the longer you delay doing what you know needs doing the lower your chances of survival become. The sooner you take action the greater the likely hood that you will be able to thrive maintain the standard of living you have now. As soon as you stop thinking about why you can not move and starting thinking of how you can do it the sooner it will become possible for you to get that homestead and begin to become self sustaining


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