# this would be a rough winter if we only had the garden to rely on.



## Tirediron

After a cool dry spring the garden (Vegetable) was really looking excellent, we have been tarping (should read polypaulining but that would be a head scratcher) the green beans, some of the peas a part of a row of carrots and some spinach and lettuce. Yesterday (July 30) we were hit with a surprize sudden storm (no warning on the radar etc, But tarping wouldn't have helped I don't think, we had at least 1 1/2 inches of hail build up on the ground when it was over. The stone didn't get very big mostly small marble here, but 60 cm, 2 3/8 " were reported a few miles west. Hopefully the root crops will re leaf and yield ok, I guess we will find out, better to learn how to deal with this now than after a SHTF, 

The "I will just plant a garden types would suffer pretty bad this year,


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## Woody

It is like that many years, not just the weather but bugs or animals.

A heat spell or too much rain can wipe out a garden. Deer will trample what they don’t eat. Bugs can devastate crops in no time.

If it is someone’s first attempt, even lack of nutrients in the soil can prevent a crop from producing. Even someone who has had gardens for years, can lose crops to just about anything.

I had blister beetles one year. Only year I ever had them and never even saw one after that. Heck, I never even heard of such a thing before that. They devastated my tomatoes in one day, hundreds of them little critters! I sprayed them with Pyola and went to pruning back the tomatoes. I suddenly had tons of these little red welts on my hands and arms. WTF??? Went in, washed up and looked them up on the computer. Hard to first identify because they looked kind of like lightning bugs. Just a basic black, smallish beetle. Them are some very dangerous little buggers! They apparently can kill a horse if they eat a few that are in hay. Needless to say, over half the garden I didn’t dare touch or eat. Even after hosing the crap out of everything for several days, I still got blisters from touching the plants they were on.

Had I not had a working computer to look them up on, I might have been in a world of hurt. I’m sure there are other things like that I have never heard of or seen. Even having had a garden for many, many years, there is always more to learn.


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## TheLazyL

When Grandma died the adults rediscovered why she always planted a large garden. She'd had 5 years worth of canned goods. 

"You always plant more then you'll need. Never know when you might have a bad garden for year or two!"


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## bigg777

Here in SE PA, we still have the possibility of 80 - 90 growing days. I' m planning on planting a late crop of green beans, lettuces and spinach, squashes and cucumbers and later on peas. The gardening season isn't over yet, especially if you think you may need to rely on the veggies you grow to help get you thru the Winter.

It sounds like a greenhouse or what the Amish around here call "high tunnels", which is a modified greenhouse would be a good idea in Alberta and the northern climes.


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## smaj100

This is why we try to plan a heavy garden crop each planting. This year the racoons and squirrels destroyed 3/4 of my corn. It forced us to harvest the remaining corn early and can as much as possible. Fortunately we have time to get another early variety in with the fall garden. Which we are going to start planting this coming weekend. Peas, more beans, beets, corn and a couple more mater plants. Our taters performed horrible this year even after we had great starts and plants that came up nice and healthy. I don't think we have time to plant another crop of those though.


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## weedygarden

smaj100 said:


> This is why we try to plan a heavy garden crop each planting. This year the racoons and squirrels destroyed 3/4 of my corn. It forced us to harvest the remaining corn early and can as much as possible. Fortunately we have time to get another early variety in with the fall garden.


I have given up on growing corn. After too many years of the raccoons and the squirrels getting it, why would I bother? Now I just buy corn when it is in season and I can get a good deal.


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## smaj100

We just ended buying 5dz ears of peaches and creams from a local farmer for $4dz. Now to cut and can it all. We still want to try and grow some more. I figured out how to keep the deer out of my garden and short of shooting all the ***** I haven't figured them out yet. The cats keep most of the squirrels at bay but they wont challenge the *****.


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## phideaux

smaj100 said:


> I figured out how to keep the deer out of my garden and short of shooting all the ***** I haven't figured them out yet. The cats keep most of the squirrels at bay but they wont challenge the *****.


Many years a go , in order to have a garden , unmolested, by all the critters. 
I put T post every 20 ft around the entire garden , put electric fencing at 4" off ground , then 6", then 6" then 10 " then 13" then 2 strands the rest of the way to the top. 
Used spring load connectors at one section to allow for entering to work , till, harvest. Worked great.

30 dollar fencer unit...and I never lost anything.

In our hayday we putting up 800 to 900 ears of corn.

btw, try "Ambrosia" variety , it will stay fresh tasting for 2-3 years frozen. 
My local guy has to order it.

Jim


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## smaj100

I might have to add some hot wire to the garden next spring. I used pine trees that we lost last year in the winter storms. Strip the bark, and put em up off the ground then auger me a hole and set them. We used 30lb fishing string, at about the same intervals you mentioned Jim. The deer can't see it and rarely push through it, and wont jump it. But the dang *****....


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## tsrwivey

We live trap the ***** & haul them off far away. 

We have two gardening seasons here & can grow some things year round. Still, we're planning on building a greenhouse pretty soon. Unless our gardening luck & skill improves dramatically very soon, we'd need all of the above to have any hope of living off the land. We're having to relearn gardening on this new property, it's been slow but we're making progress. I love gardening though!


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## Woody

smaj100 said:


> This is why we try to plan a heavy garden crop each planting. This year the racoons and squirrels destroyed 3/4 of my corn. It forced us to harvest the remaining corn early and can as much as possible. Fortunately we have time to get another early variety in with the fall garden. Which we are going to start planting this coming weekend. Peas, more beans, beets, corn and a couple more mater plants. Our taters performed horrible this year even after we had great starts and plants that came up nice and healthy. I don't think we have time to plant another crop of those though.


Have you tried peeing around the garden? Don't know if it would work for ***** but it does for deer and rabbits. Apparently they can smell the carnivore in it and steer clear. If you eat meat that is. I got my lab to poop and pee behind the garden also. I hear if you brush them and spread the hair around that helps. Human hair is supposed to do the same thing. Don't forget to pee around the 'mater plants too! The extra nitrogen in it is great. Just don't tell anyone you give them too, turns them off for some reason. If you are shy or live in a populated area just pee inside, in a jug, then bring it out.

I used braided fishing line for the main deer paths, 80# or 100# test. It was a dark green and you were hard pressed to see it even if you were looking for it. Put it about mid thigh high between a couple trees and that stopped them from using it.


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## Meerkat

tsrwivey said:


> We live trap the ***** & haul them off far away.
> 
> We have two gardening seasons here & can grow some things year round. Still, we're planning on building a greenhouse pretty soon. Unless our gardening luck & skill improves dramatically very soon, we'd need all of the above to have any hope of living off the land. We're having to relearn gardening on this new property, it's been slow but we're making progress. I love gardening though!


 We use our greenhouse now for most crops like tomatoes ,peppers,squash etc. Too many rabbits and pest. Small dirt area, containers, and of corse hydroponics.

Our first GHouse was a tunnel made from 4mil poly, cvc pipes,worked great even in storms high winds.

Ourside in beds we plant all okra, collards and other greens.


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## JayJay

On another forum, a comment was made about dumping canned green beans because he had fresh why eat old??
I ate 15 and 20 year old green beans, tomatoes, tomato juice carried from other house when I moved here.
While reading about the dump issue, I thought isn't that why we can??
My green beans tasted like fresh from the garden even at 20 years old!!

Responding to thread topic, I have canned 25 quarts of tomatoes so far that I look forward to using in my macaroni/tomato dish--I like it a lot.
Sadly, cucumbers are only saved by pickling and I have a few cases of B&B, so no more of those for now. 
I have lots of quarts of dried okra.
That's pretty much the extent of my garden growing.
I have no idea why I forgot to plant a couple squash plants--brain dead??

"""The "I will just plant a garden types would suffer pretty bad this year,""".....which is why we don't depend on those gardens for at least two years and store two years of food( or more )


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## TheLazyL

tsrwivey said:


> We live trap the ***** & haul them off far away...


I've been recycling so many ***** I was wondering how they were reproducing so quickly. 

Now I know, could you haul them off in a different direction please?! Or better yet recycle them yourself?


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## Tirediron

you need to build an electric generator powered by *****, racoons that is, and all of a sudden they will avoid your area like the plague.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I can't wait to make the break from just prepping into homesteading so I can do all this stuff. My garden efforts were pitiful and the critters mowed it like I mowed grass. Limited to what I can do about it in my area. Moving is a tough sell to the wife. All our family lives in a 20 mile radius. One day. One day.


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## readytogo

Tirediron we can`t never rely on any one thing, we most always have some kind of backup system or supplies in order to really make do in a bad situation,I`m ashamed to say that I haven`t been able to start my garden like my dear old father had ,he was not a pepper or canner but he always follow the grocery store specials and kept a nice supply of canned goods under his buildup bed frame ,that old man never lack anything .I do have the preservation skills so once a good deal on vegetables or whatever we like at home ,I buy it and canned or dry it; the idea here is to preserved and rotated but never run short of supplies or at least the main ingredients for a survival situation ,a short one I pray.


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## tmttactical

tsrwivey said:


> We live trap the ***** & haul them off far away.
> 
> We have two gardening seasons here & can grow some things year round. Still, we're planning on building a greenhouse pretty soon. Unless our gardening luck & skill improves dramatically very soon, we'd need all of the above to have any hope of living off the land. We're having to relearn gardening on this new property, it's been slow but we're making progress. I love gardening though!


Had a raccoon problem at my son's house in San Diego a few year ago. I looked into live trapping and relocation, guess what --- against Calif. Law. They must be released in same area as trapped. So set up white back drop, food and Rocky met with a 00 accident.


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## bigg777

Trap and dispatch with .22. Feed to hogs, dogs or local raptors. Nothing is wasted, it will get recycled somehow.


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## mosquitomountainman

Good fences are the best way to defeat four-legged thieves and pests. Fences can be expensive but are good insurance. I never release a nuisance animal unless it's on the property of someone who deserves them. (Had some anti-Hunting/trapping animal lovers for neighbors once. After the packrat infestation they experienced they are no longer against terminating "ugly" animals.)


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## mosquitomountainman

Always plant extra and preserve for future lean years. We get one crop per year. There are no second chances.


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## Meerkat

Hubby is outside in the chicken pens now chasing a very large snake thats been eating out eggs. Think it is a king snake. 

He caught the snake last week and took him to woods and let him go but he is back now. So he will be taken care of.

Snakes are a dying species now so we don't like to kill them. But they are persistant once they find food. We have had rattle snakes in there too, We catch and release them and some come back.


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## musketjim

Biggest problem here,(quite literally) is moose. Haven't had a real problem at BOL which is quite surprising. But I stripped some pine trees for fence posts and have some rail slabs after ripping lumber that I will use for fencing as soon as weather cooperates. This is mainly to keep moose out of my new apple trees. It's good to learn natural edibles in your area and raise lots of animals, they can at least be left alone for a little while. So much can and does go wrong with my gardens each year it can be frustrating. I'm always happy with what I get and each year I try to improve the soil and learn something new.:beercheer: Better now than in a collapse when the pucker factor is high.

Take care of your neighbor now, you might have to eat him later.


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## smaj100

I think you're right musket, soil improvement will be the key difference between those of us who garden now and have been learning and those who think I'll just plant some stuff when shtf and be ok......

Especially depending on where you live I think most soils are not garden ready and most non gardeners don't understand why you have to rotate crops.


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## Kodeman

The garden is protected with fencing but the fruit trees never produce a single blossom this year, due to a late frost freezing the buds. Very frustrating.


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## Woody

There are several crops I have tried and given up on. Melons and Broccoli are two. Melons, even though they grow huge ones in NC, always, always get fungus or the wilt. Tried about everything short of spraying them. Broccoli takes up too much space for what I get. Sure it is tasty, but the return on space, for me anyway, is not worth it. I chuckle when I think of one of the canned seed, first time gardeners trying their had at producing much needed food. Put in a few pumpkin or melon seeds and the plants take over everything! <LOL!> Then, just as little fruits form all over them... They friggin' wilt and die.


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## terri9630

Woody said:


> There are several crops I have tried and given up on. Melons and Broccoli are two. Melons, even though they grow huge ones in NC, always, always get fungus or the wilt. Tried about everything short of spraying them. Broccoli takes up too much space for what I get. Sure it is tasty, but the return on space, for me anyway, is not worth it. I chuckle when I think of one of the canned seed, first time gardeners trying their had at producing much needed food. Put in a few pumpkin or melon seeds and the plants take over everything! <LOL!> *Then, just as little fruits form all over them... They friggin' wilt and die.*


Or the beetles move in and ear them overnight.


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## crabapple

We put up more beans,peas & corn this year, then we did in the last 5 years.


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## squerly

So I'm in agreement, we would quickly starve if we had to depend on our garden this year. But I'm leaning, slowly but shurly. Can someone tell my why some of my cucumbers yellow? Some are nice and green and HUGE. Some are ugly yellow and although they are big, they don't taste very good. Internet research says they may be getting too much or too little water. But I would think if that were the case that all of them would be yellow, not just some of them. TIA


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## crabapple

Blueberries & raspberries, muscadines did well this year.
Have a load of pear this year, Moon Glow.
But the tomatoes,peppers,egg plants could have been better.


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## Tirediron

*Nearly a month later:*

The bean crop was a total loss, the peas on the south side of the wire faired not too bad. Some of the spinach and lettuce that was really young has grown back to usable size, the Carrots and potatoes have good leaf growth on them and the potatoes seem to be yielding very well this year. Gonna miss the Green beans this winter, but we shouldn't have to buy much else for vegetables if we don't want to.


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## tsrwivey

squerly said:


> So I'm in agreement, we would quickly starve if we had to depend on our garden this year. But I'm leaning, slowly but shurly. Can someone tell my why some of my cucumbers yellow? Some are nice and green and HUGE. Some are ugly yellow and although they are big, they don't taste very good. Internet research says they may be getting too much or too little water. But I would think if that were the case that all of them would be yellow, not just some of them. TIA


I read it's due to not enough sunlight. It made sense to me as my cukes are kinda shaded by the green beans.


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## timmie

Tirediron said:


> The bean crop was a total loss, the peas on the south side of the wire faired not too bad. Some of the spinach and lettuce that was really young has grown back to usable size, the Carrots and potatoes have good leaf growth on them and the potatoes seem to be yielding very well this year. Gonna miss the Green beans this winter, but we shouldn't have to buy much else for vegetables if we don't want to.


our bean crop was a total loss and so was the peas. we are going to plant some more and hope we get enough for the winter. but i am going to have back up .i'll watch for sales on them and buy some. we do love our peas and beans.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper

We are droughting this year. As a result, the cows broke into one of the gardens and ate all the strawberries, corn and green beans. They also took out the raspberries. The gardens are definitely greener on the other side of the fence.

I was going to pull the strawberries anyways, as I didn't like the variety and I still had yellow beans in another garden. About the only thing growing well this year is zucchini and tomatoes. Pretty much everything else is a bust. 

The tomatoes have gone mad, as in Jumanji mad. They broke out of confinement and are vining every where. New tomatoes have sprouted and gone crazy. The tomatoes took over the pepper and potato patches to the point its hard to find those. Its a pain in the potootie to pick them as there is no place to step that is not covered by a tomato. I have never seen anything like it before.

I pick about 3 gallons of a mixed variety of cherry tomatoes every day and they are so big and juicy. Only one variety of big tomatoes and they went nuts as well. They are averaging 1-3lbs per tomato. The only problem is that they ripen faster then I can find them in the jungle.

I have 4 crock pots going full time to do nothing but reduce tomato juice to sauce as I have all the canned tomatoes and v8 juice I can handle already. The good news is that I was gifted a heavy duty 1/2 horse power tomato machine last fall. It also has the benefit of making it easy to save boat loads of seed. 

Next year I am going to take a break from the tomatoes from hell; I suspect they will have other plans.


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## AmishHeart

I would like to have your problem.
Whatever my tomatoes did this year were stolen as we slept. (don't think they did much, though). We're glad I could at least buy romas at 50 cents a lb.


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