# Depression and General Mental Health in a post SHTF world



## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

I've not been one prone to very high highs and very low lows, typically speaking, but the sudden death by suicide of Robin Williams got me thinking about the mental health epidemic in America as it is right now and what it could be.

In this country, we are prescribed 2/3s of all anti-depressants made.

We have emasculated our boys and idealized utopian means of resolving conflict that go against our very human nature. In doing so we have taken away the ability of our younger generations to truly cope with conflict (and failure); we actually have anti-bullying laws which are the antithesis of a real solution to the larger perceived problem.

We hand out participation trophies; tell our youths we don't need valedictorians; we don't encourage exceptionalism and competition.

In our society, it has become acceptable to a wide swath of society to blame other people or events instead of taking responsibility for ourselves; look at Ferguson, MO (not the initial shooting, but the rioting, looting and violence that has followed)

With these problems, now, in times of *relative *comfort and ease, what plans, steps, measures, etc., have you taken to prepare for the mental hardship that will undoubtedly be thrust upon each of us in a post-SHTF world? Have you thought of the impact on your psyche?

I'm just curious, because I am of the belief the mental health issue is one of our own making, as a nation/culture. It took generations to create it, it will take just as long to undo it.

With that, I yield to my fellow preppers for discussion...


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Good topic. I personallybelieve that most mental health problems as they exist today will be solved in one generation.

We've had a lot of discussions on the subject of mental health and those on drugs for that. I feel that most of these people will die in one way or another within the first year.

Many of these drugs cannot be stopped cold-turkey without grave results. This is true of many modern medications. Those without a way to wean themselves off the drugs safely will die.


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

There is no way that all the politicians and lawyers will die off in a year :laugh:


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Our present society is very permissive of oddball behaviors and tries to medicate the odd ones (square pegs) to get along with everyone else (round holes). This will not endure in a difficult world. Without the drugs, people's mental states will revert to what they were without them, and that won't fit in a changed world. Look at history for some of the ways the oddities were dealt with in the past. Some became unspeakable criminals and tyrants who might have been caught, or not, others became cannon fodder or were drowned to get the evil spirits out of them. 

I see a PAW as being far less permissive and accepting of deviant behavior. I don't think they will last long. Those with serious depression will probably off themselves and everyone will wonder why, much as they do today, only there will be a higher % of them do so without their coping drugs.

Watch out for the really dangerous psychotics!


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

machinist said:


> Watch out for the really dangerous psychotics!


pick a side any side, If you voted you elected one they all start a sentence,
" I think" never my constituents have told me, that shows narcissistic
tenancies.
they are always getting caught in extramarital affairs hand in the cookie jar patting their foot in public rest rooms and lie so much they now call it misspeaking.
Habitual and serial lying is a mental disorder unless your a politician.
accepting freebies hell the head of the postal department was caught stealing stamps years ago one wanted her own personal army.

These meat heads were elected to spear head the will of the people not their own ideas.


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## northstarprepper (Mar 19, 2013)

I do think in a real SHTF situation we will see a lot of suicides. Many victims of crimes who are not killed may choose not to be victimized again. Potential victims may do so in saving the last bullet for themselves, so to speak. In other cases, just the devastation and hopelessness of a real life WROL world would drive many people to that choice. Then you have those who are ill and running out of medications. Sad but true realities of a new existence. Mental health professionals could give you a much more complete picture, but just going from this society of leisure and electronic everything to an existence of hard work, violence, constantly needing to be alert for trouble, and a world where simple injuries can be deadly may be too much for most people. I believe that long term, only the very hardiest and the luckiest will survive.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

I must admit, I had not thought much about the psychological effects on me and my family in a post-SHTF world. I also must admit that I am genuinely surprised by the lack of response to this inquiry. I figured there would have been much more input, given some of the other posts re: suicide.

The lack of response makes me think there is something to discuss here, but only because of there were a lot of views and likes, which is somewhat unusual for my posts.

Anyway, I'd still like to discuss if anyone else wants to engage the topic. While I appreciate the responses, the main questions remain unanswered: *What plans, steps, measures, etc., have you taken to prepare for the mental hardship that will undoubtedly be thrust upon each of us in a post-SHTF world? Have you even thought of the impact on your psyche? *


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## Urmomma (Jun 6, 2014)

Our daughter has her Masters in social work. She will be in charge of our physical and mental health. So I have considered the issue long before RW but might not have accept for her degree.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Some people on drugs today will tip over the edge when their supplies run out. Others might step up to the plate and pull themselves together. The latter will probably be the mildly depressed and bi-polar types. Some people have always frozen and died and some have always survived. I believe the underlying heart of the individual is the deciding factor and you will rarely know who this person is till they are tested. 

Grandma's been on antidepressants for twenty years. The fan turns brown. She sees the family falling apart and she is the only one that can pull it together. Does she step up or tip over? It really depends on how much of a fighter Grandma is and how much she wants to protect the family.

For the person not already on drugs the responsibility for keeping your spirits falls on your own shoulders. Figure out what makes you happy, and what relieves your stress. 

I didn't play earlier because this is such an in-depth subject it is more suitable to a book rather than a post.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We have kids & young adults so we've really thought about the ramifications of a SHTF scenario on them. We've made sure we can make their favorite foods, play their favorite games, & that we have enough supplies to where the transition can be made as gradually as possible. Our kids were homeschooled, they were raised old school. We're all unmedicated, for better or worse. 

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs states ones physical needs for food, water, shelter, & rest come first, then security, then love & belonging, etc. While I don't know that I agree with security coming after physical needs in a SHTF scenario, I do think these principles are useful in our planning. Avoiding as much suffering as possible is our first step.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

PurpleHeartJarhead said:


> I must admit, I had not thought much about the psychological effects on me and my family in a post-SHTF world. I also must admit that I am genuinely surprised by the lack of response to this inquiry. I figured there would have been much more input, given some of the other posts re: suicide.
> 
> The lack of response makes me think there is something to discuss here, but only because of there were a lot of views and likes, which is somewhat unusual for my posts.
> 
> Anyway, I'd still like to discuss if anyone else wants to engage the topic. While I appreciate the responses, the main questions remain unanswered: *What plans, steps, measures, etc., have you taken to prepare for the mental hardship that will undoubtedly be thrust upon each of us in a post-SHTF world? Have you even thought of the impact on your psyche? *


I think the emphasis you've put on the personal aspect was lost in the rest of your post.

We've discussed it at length. In our cases we've (my wife and I and four of our seven children) lived off grid both with and without electricity. And we've done it on a very, very low income. We've produced most of our own food on our homestead. I'm not sure you can tell completely how even family members will react. In our case all family members are flexible, adaptable and resilient. They all know what hard work is. They will deal with it. Most of our neighbors would deal with it. We live in a very rural area and many of those around here are pretty tough. Most have been through hard times.

Our biggest problem will be with the mentally ill (which we seem to have more than our fair share of around here) and the transplants from other areas (mostly those from Kalifornia and the East Coast who can't even adapt to the area when times are good!). We've lived life in the natural world and it isn't that bad.

IMO, the current generation will have it the most difficult since they've grown up with all the modern comforts and conveniences. Especially instant communication over the internet and cell phones and mindless entertainment as "gamers." (Must be nice to go to war and never get bitten by mosquitoes, rained on, or have to lug heavy loads!). Can you imagine what their lives will be like if they have to walk everywhere, cook from scratch, endure life in non-climate controlled conditions, and the only sounds will be the sounds of nature?


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

All Anyone can expect of themselves is drawn from life experience.

We may all think we are tough but everyone has an Achilles heel
by what I can garnish most of the settlers committed suicide after 
the deaths of their children.

Times were horrible and may be so again the diseases and dangers 
of living without power and medications and common comforts will 
increase the chances of accidents and illnesses.

I know I was resilient and have been through IT but that was then and 
we all know when it happens your in the now.
So being or getting to cocky is something I try to avoid, saying that 
if others depend on me I have to exude confidence and suppress 
doubt.
A person needs to be honest with themselves and others but, there is a 
fine line between terrorizing and explaining risk factors in a straightforward fashion in a firm and calm voice.

Or run screaming depending on the situation either has 
a 50/50 chance of working vract:

In reality I have had to move on and let people make their own path.

If we are not in a military setting rank or authority would be fragile 
failures even minor ones would shift sentiments quickly.
The term herding cats comes to mind and prepping like your a Marine 
drill instructor now will probably hurt more than increase unit /
family confidence.
Civilians and children are not soldiers and it all depends on how the children and your relationship with your significant other.


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

It's a complicated question, that's for sure.

On the one side, I can see how things can get worse for a lot of people who already have mental illness (MI) - they tend to be more vulnerable to stress in the first place, medication or no. Also, a lot of mental illness is a direct result of trauma, and there would be more than enough of that to go around in a SHTF situation. So I think we'd see a lot of new cases.

But many people who have struggled with MI for a long time would also be uniquely positioned to help others if they're old hands with their own recovery. The stigma associated with MI isn't as strong as it has been in decades past, which means that people can talk about it with less fear of reprisal. Things like peer support would play a major role in helping to pull people through when they might otherwise have a much harder time.

Thankfully, one of the benefits of the peer movement is that people are making more informed choices about medication. This is controversial, but research indicates that a lot of psych drugs on the market are only marginally better than placebos in long-term use. A big benefit of peer support is that people are learning behavioral approaches to augment their medications. If we encounter a situation where Big Pharma isn't here to save the day, things like meditation and support groups will make a bigger difference than you might expect.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Hubs and I have been thinking on this. The littles are ADHD and semi medicated. Bub is healthy. We have done drills where we have no grid but its just for a weekend. Prolonged will be difficult for the kids after the first couple of days. We have games, books, drawing items, etc to keep them occupied. 

I agree that those of the 'electronic generations' will have it most difficult as well as those who depend on medical support or even the government dole. Lots of suicides, lots of new cases that could go either way.

Its just another thing us as parents have to think about.


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## swinneyswitch (Apr 6, 2014)

I'm the grandma you are speaking about and I will want to step up to the plate but if I'm off my meds for clinical depression, I will need some one to step up to the plate for me. I have thought about this lots and it is a major fear for me. I have tried to "go off" my meds but after about 3 weeks my anxiety level is very high and that is in a normal situation. My depression is not severe but it is very strong. Any advice about substitute meds, coping, how others with clinical depression are thinking about the future?


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I've heard of people having good luck with regular exercise & cognitive behavioral therapy, to teach her to get rid of the "stinkin' thinkin' " (her words, not mine).


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

notyermomma said:


> It's a complicated question, that's for sure.
> 
> On the one side, I can see how things can get worse for a lot of people who already have mental illness (MI) - they tend to be more vulnerable to stress in the first place, medication or no. Also, a lot of mental illness is a direct result of trauma, and there would be more than enough of that to go around in a SHTF situation. So I think we'd see a lot of new cases.
> 
> ...


I really like your comments. And I agree it is controversial (long term effectiveness of MI drugs). A really good point you make is people who have struggled may end up being the helpers. Perhaps in a co-dependent state at first, but it is certainly a very real likelihood, depending of course on the individual's challenges.

It is a significant hurdle for our society to address in a meaningful fashion, the crisis we are in now. Personally, I wish there were not all the drugs because I think they are largely masking the issues one carries, holding them tenuously under the surface, perhaps indefinitely, perhaps only temporarily, Sandyhook (?).

The Marines and my experiences therein have certainly given me reason to believe I can stand in the face of almost any challenge. But a post-catastophic-SHTF world may prove too much for the hardiest of souls.

I certainly have no answers; and I will not lie, my own answers to my questions are an emphatic NO. Until now, and not so much because of who, but more because of why, RW's suicide got me thinking about how I would attempt to handle depression in the worst of scenarios, either in myself or in a loved one.

Thank you, notyermomma!

I'll get to more response after I go get some chicken chores done, late night at work and I'm running a little late.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

tsrwivey said:


> We have kids & young adults so we've really thought about the ramifications of a SHTF scenario on them. We've made sure we can make their favorite foods, play their favorite games, & that we have enough supplies to where the transition can be made as gradually as possible. Our kids were homeschooled, they were raised old school. We're all unmedicated, for better or worse.
> 
> Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs states ones physical needs for food, water, shelter, & rest come first, then security, then love & belonging, etc. While I don't know that I agree with security coming after physical needs in a SHTF scenario, I do think these principles are useful in our planning. Avoiding as much suffering as possible is our first step.


I'm not surprised to see Maslow's Hierarchy raised. Maybe even less so by you tsrwivey; you strike me as very well read, which would stand to reason with the homeschooling of your children.

I think Maslow's reasoning behind security following base instincts (water, food, shelter, etc), in any scenario, is that the body must be sound before it can do anything.

Anyway, look at esteem needs and how far up the pyramid that is, second to last. Why then, do we push self-esteem so hard in our society? Those things near the top while important, are expendable until we humans satisfy our needs in the lower base needs. By doing so, I believe we are in effect setting up a soft society for so many of these problems, which is what I mentioned in the OP. The "everyone gets a trophy" mentality does nothing to truly satisfy the mind in the name of esteem if the the previous needs are not fulfilled.

Thank you, tsrwivey!


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I think the emphasis you've put on the personal aspect was lost in the rest of your post.


Thank you, M3...I believe after re-reading, you are correct. I got to rambling a bit. I appreciate your insight and for giving a positive comment on the subject itself.

There is so much to learn from our more seasoned generations, I'm no spring chicken myself. I just mean that when I was young, I wanted to hear of the Great Depression, WWII and earlier, simpler times in our culture. That desire seems so lost on the younger adults and children now. I am absolutely mortified at the lack of general knowledge our young people have, coming out of college, not high school, COLLEGE! As my old man says, sometimes too often, "Book learnin' ain't everything!" He's sooo right.

Sorry, not wanting to wax nostalgic, back on point.

It's tough to see young people that I employ, begin to cry when I chastise them for not getting tasks completed. Couldn't imagine having ever given my dignity away to someone over a mistake or misunderstanding. We are a mentally weak society because we are coddling people into adulthood, well into their 20's now.

I'm not saying we need to be cold and beat kids by any means, but don't we owe it to them to help them learn to deal with disappointment, failure and limitations?

Seems to me maybe we could reduce some of the problems just by helping our youngsters learn the meaning of consequences and accountability.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

swinneyswitch said:


> I'm the grandma you are speaking about and I will want to step up to the plate but if I'm off my meds for clinical depression, I will need some one to step up to the plate for me. I have thought about this lots and it is a major fear for me. I have tried to "go off" my meds but after about 3 weeks my anxiety level is very high and that is in a normal situation. My depression is not severe but it is very strong. Any advice about substitute meds, coping, how others with clinical depression are thinking about the future?


If you're on any of the benzos, you can't just stop taking them cold turkey. It can be a long drawn out process. I would suggest dropping the dosage 10 percent per month (yes, that slow). The faster you come off the greater the chance of prolonged symptoms that can potentially last year's after you stop taking them completely.

If it's some other form of meds, I can't speak of the difficulty or recommend anything


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

As some on this site know, my oldest was institutionalized for psychoses/anxiety for a period of time. That was a number of years ago. He is no longer on medication. He's completely self-sufficient (on scholarship, working two jobs - not only supports himself with no help from us, but he's thriving with outstanding grades, international internships). Obviously we are proud of him - but my point is that dealing with metal illness has actually made him stronger. And it's given him a perspective on life - frankly, he'd be an asset in a SHTF world.

That said, I remember some of those kids on that ward - I don't see how they could function in a SHTF world, with or without meds. Many times I would drive home in tears after visiting my son because of the despair of some of those kids on that ward - it is absolutely heart-breaking. Then there are the other kids - the ones that are just plain scary. I think both of those types of people won't last long in a civil unrest - the despaired will be victimized and killed, the scary will be killed while people are protecting themselves and their own.



PurpleHeartJarhead said:


> We are a mentally weak society because we are coddling people into adulthood, well into their 20's now.


One thing I do think of, and don't have an answer for, is the effect of being constantly alert and on guard, always expecting to be attacked or targeted in some way. In a true SHTF world, I believe that is the way we will all be living. I dealt with PTSD of varying degrees for about ten years, and I know how physically taxing that hyper awareness can be. I have thought, folks really just don't know what's coming - and I'm thinking about mentally strong and capable people.

Your point about the coddled is spot on - and I don't see them being able to handle that stress. What will happen to them? I'm guessing they will break down and make really, really bad decisions...

On the other hand, I do see a possibility where those who are currently considered mentally ill will become... something else. There will be a new normal. The ability to think outside of the box will be essential. Some of the higher-functioning mentally ill may fit that need. Not all, but some. They will be experts, if you will, at living outside one's comfort zone. They've lived that already.

I haven't prepped for mental illness specifically. There are so many other specific things that need prepping (things that would fall under Maslow's hierarchy), and mental illness is rather nebulous. I _know _we will need water. I _know _we will need food. I _know _we will need shelter. I _know _we will need protection. But I don't know what we will need for mental illness.

I do believe that being prepared helps with mental illness. Hungry people make stupid decisions. People with hungry children don't sleep at night and make really, _really _stupid decisions. So I prep along those tangibles.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Sorry if my post is disjointed. It's a big topic and I was trying to come at it from a couple angles while trying to be concise (I did not succeed at that, lol). It was really hard to get my thoughts organized.


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

Another aspect of this question occurs to me, and that's that we might actually see a _decrease_ in MI after the dust settles.

It's largely philosophical, but I heard a speaker at a mental health conference make a great point once. We live in a crazy, dysfunctional world. Sometimes, mental illness is a reasonable (if unhelpful) response to living in a sick situation. We weren't _meant_ to be sedentary, packed in fluorescent hives and forced to live on arbitrary schedules. We're animals, with circadian rhythms and certain social needs that are there for good reason. Once we go through withdrawal from our bizarre 24/7 expectations, a lot of people might do better than they ever thought possible.

Goshelgirl, I'm so glad to hear that your son is doing better. I suspect that some of what you saw with the hopelessness in the hospital comes from cultural conditioning. For a long time we've believed that a psych diagnosis is a life sentence, and we've told our "patients" as much and adjusted our expectations accordingly. Your son's experience demonstrates that it simply ain't so, and I bet if you followed most of these other people in the years after their hospitalizations they would probably uphold that same truth. Recovery is a fact, and we're just starting to wake up to that in clinical circles.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

PurpleHeartJarhead said:


> Anyway, look at esteem needs and how far up the pyramid that is, second to last. Why then, do we push self-esteem so hard in our society? Those things near the top while important, are expendable until we humans satisfy our needs in the lower base needs. By doing so, I believe we are in effect setting up a soft society for so many of these problems, which is what I mentioned in the OP. The "everyone gets a trophy" mentality does nothing to truly satisfy the mind in the name of esteem if the the previous needs are not fulfilled. !


Notice the needs that come before esteem - family, friends, & intimacy, the very things out society attempts to destroy. Lack of esteem in children is a direct result of the breakdown of the family & the corruption & destruction of sexual intimacy. Kids don't even know how to build & maintain true friendships because their family relationships are in such shambles.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Since we keep talking about it, here's Maslow's hierarchy of needs. His theory was no level can be achieved until all of the levels below it were achieved.


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## swinneyswitch (Apr 6, 2014)

Thank you labotomi for the advice. When I stopped taking my meds it was because of a problem with my insurance provider (can you believe that?) and it took three weeks to fix. I thought I would be able to handle it but found out differently. I was so dissappointed. I want to talk to my doctor about your advice as I would like to have this not hanging over my head. It was rough finding out I am not so tough!!!


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

Rarin!!

There's also SSRI Discontinuation Syndrome, which a lot of doctors don't acknowledge for some reason. When people stop taking this type of antidepressant they can feel flu-like, have sensory issues, sleep problems, and even cognitive problems. Effexor is especially notorious for it.

What a lot of people don't realize is that _any_ medication is a drug, and even baby aspirin can have unintended effects if one isn't careful. Having a reaction to going cold-turkey off something your body is used to is normal. It doesn't make you "weak" any more than someone suddenly losing access to any other form of health care. If anyone's weak, it's the dolt bureaucrats at your insurance company.


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

goshengirl said:


> I haven't prepped for mental illness specifically. There are so many other specific things that need prepping (things that would fall under Maslow's hierarchy), and mental illness is rather nebulous. I _know _we will need water. I _know _we will need food. I _know _we will need shelter. I _know _we will need protection. But I don't know what we will need for mental illness.
> 
> I do believe that being prepared helps with mental illness. Hungry people make stupid decisions. People with hungry children don't sleep at night and make really, _really _stupid decisions. So I prep along those tangibles.


Goshengirl, you make some very interesting points there. Unless one has a family or personal history indicating a particular diagnosis to watch for, I don't know if there really is any way to go about it. For a lot of people a first episode sneaks up so slowly and gradually that they don't recognize it as "illness" until it's way too late and things are out of control. Living with mental illness is a real learning curve - recognizing one's symptoms and triggers at the early stage, identifying healthy coping skills, building healthy relationships and supports, etc. It's hard work.

Once that framework is in place, it's a lot easier to implement preventive measures. I have a good friend who started having big problems with her credit after going into a severe depression. She'd get a bill in the mail, panic, space it, and then come home one day and wonder why the lights wouldn't come on. Preparation? She put all her bills on autopay. No more shutoffs and her credit rebounded on its own. Everyone's circumstances and symptoms are unique, so there can be a lot of trial and error involved. But as people identify the challenges presented by their symptoms, there are a lot of tricks like that to help keep things together.

Ultimately, the best "prepping" anyone can do toward their mental health is the same list as for physical health. Exercise, eat right, sleep right, laugh, worship as you see fit (or not,) and above all keep a solid network of people around you who you love and trust. Bear in mind that with the stigma surrounding mental illness, some of those people may surprise you and bail because they don't understand. That's one reason why it's good to have many backup systems - family, multiple circles of friends, and spirituality.

Know the landscape and what services are available _before_ you need it. And if you're really afraid that mental illness might be a factor, beef up your health insurance and make sure it covers mental health at a level you can use. Mental health care is still a train wreck in the US, with a big patchwork of services that only accept people with Medicaid. Fortunately other services based on volunteerism are expanding, with a lot more support groups coming available.

I could go on and on. Somebody stop me!!


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

tsrwivey said:


> Notice the needs that come before esteem - family, friends, & intimacy, the very things out society attempts to destroy. Lack of esteem in children is a direct result of the breakdown of the family & the corruption & destruction of sexual intimacy. Kids don't even know how to build & maintain true friendships because their family relationships are in such shambles.


Spot on tsr....


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

*Thank you!!*

Whether or not it was me who started this post, I find it intriguing how many views it's gotten in such a short time. Certainly there seems to be interest in the subject, on a good many levels.

The posts I've read, though I've not responded to all of them (sorry), are very insightful.

I hope as a community of preppers, we can continue to add to this dialogue, it seems so to be in such need today. The only way to deal with problems is to acknowledge them. Many of you have done that and it is appreciated. Some of us, like me, didn't make the correlation to depression and SHTF life until recently. Others, hopefully will at least be open to the discussion.

For my part, I would be willing to offer whatever help, advice, etc., as a non-professional of course, rather than learn one of us gave up the good fight. I hope no one out here in this forum feels like they have no other options. *Please *reach out...someone *will *help!!


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

notyermomma said:


> Ultimately, the best "prepping" anyone can do toward their mental health is the same list as for physical health. Exercise, eat right, sleep right, laugh, worship as you see fit (or not,) and above all keep a solid network of people around you who you love and trust. Bear in mind that with the stigma surrounding mental illness, some of those people may surprise you and bail because they don't understand. That's one reason why it's good to have many backup systems - family, multiple circles of friends, and spirituality.


I would add keeping your life simple & living well beneath your means. So many people are stressed out because every minute of their lives is already committed to doing activities that really don't add much to their lives. People also are so financially strapped (even when times were good financially) that having to replace a roof or heating unit on their home (expected expenses) is enough to financially devastate them. It takes every penny they make just to make the notes & pay the bills they've created for themselves. If the least little thing happens, they're toast. If one of their parents need care, one of the their kids needs something other than daycare, etc. they've limited the choices they can easily make. It's really sad to make the sacrifices necessary to have a good income & then put yourself under such stress.


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## swinneyswitch (Apr 6, 2014)

*clinical depression*

I chose to bare my soul because I am open about clinical depression and hoped to help others; I also found some good advice. I have sought out a Canadian source for my meds should I need it; I have started an exercise campaign. I'm proud to say that my diet is good. I want to have as many tacics under my belt to help me today and both is the future. I think this thread is so needed so that people do not sweep this under the rug but begin to find out what works for them. Thank you to whoever started this thread.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

swinneyswitch said:


> I want to have as many tacics under my belt to help me today and both is the future.


You are definitely coming at it from a position of strength, swinney. That's an asset no matter what the future holds. :congrat:


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## mikeymike (Mar 8, 2012)

I have battled anxiety for years and was on Zoloft for about 6 years and then had some bad times come up and the doctor added a extended release xanax and said take this for a while and it will help and since it is a time release it is not addictive. Well I have been trying to get away from them and i have stopped taking the zoloft after lowering the dose slowly but the xanax extended release I am having issues with. And yes congnitive therapy helps but I want to be off the xanax. Being a time release tablet can I cut them in half or quarters and try and ween myself off like that or do you think i need to go a different route? I am no longer in the very high stress job that i was in so i know i can do this but i just really havent tried that hard. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks


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## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

I've not commented earlier because I have no idea how I would react in a severe crisis situation. From my time in the military, I know that first impressions or perceived strengths are far too often wrong. The big, handsome, hulking jock with a ton of self esteem, a harem at his beck and call, goes to pieces when the guy with four stripes and a Smokey hat screams and reams him a new one. A few days later, he's on his way home with a piece of paper with an alpha-numeric code that says he's unable to adapt to a military lifestyle.

Conversely, the skinny wimp in glasses who appears scared of his shadow and can only do one chin-up quickly evolves into the guy you'd pick first when the SHTF. It's just too difficult to predict what happens to someone's mind...even your own.

For many people, low expectations=low results. I have no idea who in my circle of friends would rise to the challenge, or what would make them do so...or who would curl into a fetal position and wait for either rescue or the grim reaper. I know I have enough basic survival skills to handle a moderate crisis, and I'm reasonably well prepared, but if others depended on me, I might fold. I hate being responsible for the welfare of others and after years of being leadership roles, I now avoid it like the plague.

So, my response to the original post?...I haven't got a clue!


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

mikeymike said:


> Well I have been trying to get away from them and i have stopped taking the zoloft after lowering the dose slowly but the xanax extended release I am having issues with. And yes congnitive therapy helps but I want to be off the xanax. Being a time release tablet can I cut them in half or quarters and try and ween myself off like that or do you think i need to go a different route? I am no longer in the very high stress job that i was in so i know i can do this but i just really havent tried that hard. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks


I don't have much experience with Xanax ER so verify what I say with a pharmacist, but ER pills in general have properties in their coating & elsewhere that control how fast the medication is released. Cutting, crushing, or chewing an ER pill is generally not a good idea. Tell your perscribing doctor you're wanting to try coming off the meds & ask if he can prescribe your meds in smaller milligram pills, that way you can take just a half dose. Remember, slow & steady wins the race.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

GaryS said:


> I hate being responsible for the welfare of others and after years of being leadership roles, I now avoid it like the plague


In a SHTF situation, being very clear as to who you are really responsible for & who should have taken responsibility for themselves will be very important.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

When I was in flight training, my instructor would always say that when the SHTF and every thing appears to go wrong the first thing you do is reach over to your left arm and wind your watch (this was 30 years ago). He said never panic in an emergency, take a few mins to think about it. This method keeps you from doing something stupid. He also said that if your gut says something is wrong, it's probably right.

These suggestions have always been valuable to me.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

I am not advocating anything, as far as medical recommendations are concerned however, faith and hope are powerful forces. There are times in my life, where all I had to lean on was my faith in God and myself.

I don't know if I would have had the faith in myself, had I not had faith in God first. YMMV!

Build hope thru setting goals and putting forth effort, build faith thru those that have advocated faith like no other, that has been Jesus Christ in my life.


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## Ozarker (Jul 29, 2014)

As to the original post, I can't disagree at all. I will discuss this aspect with my "Id" and get back to you. 

I've seen those who think they are bad azz types wet their pants when shot at. I was probably close to that my first time too. Now, I only get concerned as you continue to operate, you react by training and experience. 

The biggest issue is shock, it can incapacitate many. It can be from any traumatic event, I'd say the hardest thing to overcome is the loss of a loved one and then having to make a decision for your survival or acting for others. It can sound cold hearted but if you lose someone you really have to identify them as someone else, not who you think they are but almost like a stranger, keep operating and tell yourself that person you know really isn't gone. Lie to yourself if you need to and keep going. Tell yourself they aren't really gone that you will see them later......you can deal with reality later on.

I can't stress the importance of disassociation of yourself with those around you who are gone or injured. This is one of the primary reasoning aspects behind fraternization issues in the military. You need an out of body experience of sorts as another person and not as the husband or wife or child or buddy of the victim. Your life and the lives of others can depend on your ability to set personal relationships aside and continue with your responsibilities or the mission at hand. Mastering this can be very hard, but it must be done, I can't sit there thinking oh, this is my brother or mother bleeding out, it's someone else that needs attention. In an emergency there is no room for emotions, you need to get down to business without distractions. 

Folks have no idea how they will react until they are truly tested. While training helps, there is no training that really has the impact of the real thing. However, one thing about training is the amount of confidence you gain from training. You must be confident in your abilities above all other feelings, doubting your abilities can get you killed or injured. After you experience a few tornados your confidence level will increase. 

If you're on meds it's common for you to think you're getting better and want to get off them. Big problem, the reason you're thinking you can get better is because of the meds, do not stop taking them! Some meds won't work after you stop taking them, if there is a period of time without them you can't get the same effect as originally accomplished, so you may need to take another med that could be twice as expensive and may not be as appropriate, you could be screwed forever, so don't stop taking your meds! I have been through this with family. 

Like other aspects of life the only thing that prepares you for the mental stress and effects of an emergency is experience. The next best thing is training. Sitting around fantasizing about situations is not training. Good training is taken from experience and actual situations, not hypotheticals or video games or movies.


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## swinneyswitch (Apr 6, 2014)

Thank you goshengirl!


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

mikeymike said:


> I have battled anxiety for years and was on Zoloft for about 6 years and then had some bad times come up and the doctor added a extended release xanax and said take this for a while and it will help and since it is a time release it is not addictive. Well I have been trying to get away from them and i have stopped taking the zoloft after lowering the dose slowly but the xanax extended release I am having issues with. And yes congnitive therapy helps but I want to be off the xanax. Being a time release tablet can I cut them in half or quarters and try and ween myself off like that or do you think i need to go a different route? I am no longer in the very high stress job that i was in so i know i can do this but i just really havent tried that hard. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks


I'm not familiar with time release Xanax but it has to be better than the roller coaster of regular Xanax..

When I began to stop taking benzos, I was currently taking Xanax. It has a half life of 12 hours so it's very very hard to control the ups and downs. I switched to klonopin which is longer acting and began further reducing my dose slowly. When I'd cut down to a very small dose making it hard to reduce further I switched to Valium which is available in smaller doses. Since Valium has a very long half-life (50-200hrs) I could take a dose every other day and eventually every third day. I would take half a pill and try to go as long as I could before taking another (always as little as I could to reduce withdrawals)

It wasn't easy. I had to deal with feeling sick from withdrawals every time I reduced my dosage.

Keep in mind that different benzos have different strengths. 0.5mg of Xanax is about equal to 10mg of Valium. There are others out there as well that might better suit your needs.

One thing you should consider is that even though I've been off them for a while. I learned that if I take even a small amount, I'll end up with withdrawal symptoms again. I've heard the Z-drugs can cause withdrawals as well (ambien/lunesta). It may always be like that for me.


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