# Got old oil furnace, trying to find info



## Jim1590

Got meself a Sears Roebuck & Co Model 229-515 oil fired furnace.

Cannot seem to find anything on it online. Like its age or how many gallons per second I am wasting.

Anyone know anything about this monster?

Last thing I had from Sears Roebuck was a J C Higgins 16ga shotgun!


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## nightwing

Sears never made anything so look it over real well and make sure there 
is not another name or town it was built.
Then you can back track it from that information.


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## hiwall

The oil nozzle will be stamped with a number (like 1.25H). This is the gallons per hour that nozzle will spray. The letter on the nozzle is the 'style' of spray pattern.


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## Woody

Not familiar with yours but lived with an OLD oil furnace for many years in NE PA.

My first advice is to get an old wooden chair/stool and saw the legs off, so when you sit, the burner is right there, at a comfortable working level. A cinder block will do, but a chair/stool is more comfortable. Metal can and a pail, to catch drippin's and drainings. Piece of plywood on your right (if you are right handed) and every time you use a tool on it, buy another one and keep it right there. It won't be much, couple crescents, ratchet or two, maybe an extension, screwdriver, bottle of WD... Don't forget a small piece of wire to clean the orifice, you'll know the size. Box-O-Rags or a towel or two. A flashlight and a flask of brandy. This way, when the furnace goes out, you have everything you need to fix it with right there. It might be every few years you need to attend to it but damn, what a pain to go and get everything when it is cold in there and your hands are covered with fuel oil!!!

I'd go and tickle mine once a year, in the fall, and really didn't have all that much trouble. but.. when trouble strikes, what a PITA if you have to go searching for a 3/8 crescent! It was a heating machine though and was great. Good luck with yours!


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## Viking

Jim1590 said:


> Got meself a Sears Roebuck & Co Model 229-515 oil fired furnace.
> 
> Cannot seem to find anything on it online. Like its age or how many gallons per second I am wasting.
> 
> Anyone know anything about this monster?
> 
> Last thing I had from Sears Roebuck was a J C Higgins 16ga shotgun!


Have you checked with Sears? By phone not internet.


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## Caribou

Does this appliance have a constant level valve a/k/a a carburetor on the back. It would have a dial at the top of the carburetor that ranged from off to probably nine. If this is what you have it is referred to as a pot burner. The advantage to these is that you do not need electricity to operate. You could get a small blower to mount on the back that would help push the hot air around the room. If this is what you have you would be very lucky to be getting 60% efficiency. A photo would help. 

Toyo took this basic idea and added a double blower to push fresh air in and push exhaust out, a fan to push the air around the room, an electric fuel pump, an automatic start function, and a computer to make the whole contraption work. This brought the whole efficiency up to the low 80's. This is way more efficient than what you have but needs electricity and is more prone to breakdown. There is no free lunch either way.

I owned a heating business for years and I have worked on, and sold, all types of oil fired appliances. If you want to PM me your phone number or email I would be happy to tell you tons about your heater but this is far too involved for a post.


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## LincTex

hiwall said:


> The oil nozzle will be stamped with a number (like 1.25H). This is the gallons per hour that nozzle will spray. The letter on the nozzle is the 'style' of spray pattern.


Correct, and many oil burner parts are universal.

Spare nozzles and fuel filters will be necessary. 
I had always wanted to fit a better filter than the felt "General" one we always used.












Caribou said:


> Does this appliance have a constant level valve a/k/a a carburetor on the back. It would have a dial at the top of the carburetor that ranged from off to probably nine. If this is what you have it is referred to as a pot burner. If this is what you have you would be very lucky to be getting 60% efficiency.


That brings back memories! The little "click" of the tiny lever, the whooshing sound of fuel running into the float chamber...

I have a brown enameled Siegler oil stove that I ran a mix of #2/used motor oil in. The flue went into a 55 gallon drum with air tubes welded in it for heat transfer. The exhaust at the chimney was always clean.


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## Jim1590

Thanks guys. I will look more for other labels tonight. Will also put up pictures of the furnace itself. This is a start of a long upgrade to the house. My hot water also comes from this thing..... 

Would love to add a tankless heater for water..... but only have 100amp service.... sigh.

At the end of the day I want to be saving the $, not wasting it on fuel oil or electricity. Oh and doing all this on a single income right now!


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## LincTex

Jim1590 said:


> At the end of the day I want to be saving the $, not wasting it on fuel oil or electricity. Oh and doing all this on a single income right now!


I was thinking forced air - that looks like a oil-fired water heater. I doubt it makes steam, though.

Looks like 1.45 is the max sized fuel nozzle

I'm guessing late 1960's....


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## Woody

I was thinking forced air also. Never had a hot water or steam one.


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## Caribou

Okay, not what I thought it was.

Back up a few feet and give us a view of the entire setup. Judging strictly by this one plate this is an old boiler that can be used as a hydronic boiler or a steam boiler depending on the distribution system and controls that are attached to the appliance. My best guess is about 60% efficient. I tell my customers that when a heating appliance is old enough to vote to get rid of it as it will probably vote liberal.

In and of itself the efficiency is bad enough but this boiler wants to be kept hot all the time especially if you get your domestic hot water from a coil inside the boiler. This means that in July the boiler is running and burning oil for little purpose. This is a hot start boiler.

If you get a new boiler (I would) I strongly recommend a cold start, three pass, boiler and an indirect water heater. This makes the domestic hot water a separate zone and the boiler does not fire unless there is a call for heat.

Because of where you live I recommend the Biasi brand of oil fired boilers. They also make an excellent wood fired boilers. Their gas fired boilers are good also but there are more efficient ones out there so I don't recommend their gas ones. For full disclosure I am a Biasi dealer but I make nothing on sales outside Alaska. 

The only other brand of oil fired boiler I would consider for my home is the Buderus.


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## Viking

LincTex said:


> Correct, and many oil burner parts are universal.
> 
> Spare nozzles and fuel filters will be necessary.
> I had always wanted to fit a better filter than the felt "General" one we always used.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That brings back memories! The little "click" of the tiny lever, the whooshing sound of fuel running into the float chamber...
> 
> I have a brown enameled Siegler oil stove that I ran a mix of #2/used motor oil in. The flue went into a 55 gallon drum with air tubes welded in it for heat transfer. The exhaust at the chimney was always clean.


It does bring back memories, I even sort of remember Siegler furnace ads. I remember changing a few of those felt filters and as careful as I was in the process having to use more than a few rags to wipe my hands and being stuck with that oily smell for awhile. Ah yes, the good old days, some were not all that fun, but then I'd rather be dealing with some of those things than the tech nightmares I run across these days.


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## Jim1590

Ok, as requested, some pictures of Ms. July 1989 (I watched under siege last night)

Or maybe not, could have my attachments messed up.


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## Caribou

Thanks. I'll stick with my 60% efficiency if it has been cleaned recently and the burner properly adjusted. I'd have to check the serial number to be sure but I think that boiler came over on the Mayflower. :dunno:


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## Jim1590

Replacement is going to be a priority. Yes, it does the hot water as well so your talk above is spot on.

I need to do this, find new way to heat water and upgrade 100amp panel to 200 at some point.

No natural gas in the area. Would consider propane if cheaper alternative. Wood burning is also a thought, we have 40 acres of wood along with the house.

But it is in the basement next to our master bedroom, that may cause a issue. Or maybe not.

I am fine with oil, best bang for your buck probably, but I am basically spending 2x as much for oil to get same heat out.

Kind of on the same subject, I can get a varying level of service protection at 100, 200 or 300 for the year. Think the 300 covers all labor and good chunk of the parts. Since I have not had it inspected myself by this company, and realizing they may laugh in my face, is a plan worth it?

Yes, been cleaned within past 12 months.


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## airdrop

It is a steam boiler and your talking a lot of plumbing water feed, water safety valve, steam safety pop off valve on top that more than likely needs to be replaced, does it have the oil unit in front of it . It will have to be safety checked by a good tech and a hydro pressure test to make sure it's not leaking someplace. Scrap metal is bring good money because money pits aren't


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## Caribou

#2 oil has about 140,000 BTU's per gallon
#1 oil has about 132,000 BTU's per gallon
Propane has about 92,800 BTU's per gallon
Natural Gas has 100,000 BTU's per therm
Electricity has 3413 BTU's per Kwh

Electricity is factored in at 100% efficient. Everything else is factored by the AFUE of the appliance. Availability 

If your current boiler is 60% efficient then $40 out of every hundred goes up the chimney while $60 heats the house and domestic water. If you put in a boiler that is 87% efficient you only put $13 up the chimney. In addition there are standby losses that are greatly reduced with a cold start boiler. For example your boiler may fire two or three times an hour in the summer just to keep itself warm. My cold start boiler will fire two or three times a day depending on domestic hot water consumption.

So, start with an efficient system then get the controls to manage it so that the boiler will not fire unless there is a call for heat. There are many viable options. I hope this helps. Ask for any clarification.


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## airdrop

The pictures show it to be a hotwater system setup, man is that thing old lol. I'd see if any water treatment needs to be looked into to slow down any corrosion in the water side. Here in Michigan they are selling woodfired hot water boilers that you could run a water line to the house because these set outside. You might be able to add a heat exchanger so the wood fired water could exchange heat to the oil fired water . The fire boxes are large and might run for 24 hours on one load. My son-in-law had one for his woodshop to run floor heat .


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## Jim1590

We have a company that the inlaws use to come out and do a service and efficency check on it. It may have to be after the winter but I want to upgrade this thing, find a more cost effective way to heat the well water and do a 100 amp to 200 amp electrical upgrade. 

What else is money for?


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## Jim1590

So there is a lot of help out there. Been having some issues with this thing, it's still the in-laws house and they can pay for a tech visit, but I do not like not knowing the issue and then making sure it's fixed right.

We did have it serviced and was told 85% efficiency. I can live with that for now.

Recently it seems the hot water has not been hot when I shower in the morning. This beast does hot water pipe circulation for heating and heating of the usable water.

I fixed it with some programmable thermostats that kicking the heat 15 min before my alarm goes off, everything heats up, all's well.

Yesterday came home and my wife said been cold all day. Temp in upper 50s inside about 2 degrees outside. Checked the beast and water temp was about 100 degrees and it wasn't firing. Pushed the red start button and it fired up. All's well.

Shower this morning and brrr that's cold. Water temp after I got out is as posted in the picture.

Temp outside right now.... -13, but feels like 1 , we are on a well. The run from furnace to shower is maybe 20 feet with the ups, downs
Criss crossing of the ceilings. It is in a room next to the furnace room. Same pipe the feeds rest of taps in house.

Oh, and how does the pressure look? Not sure on where it should be, but the dial makes it look low. If so, what problems might that cause?

Thoughts? Thanks


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## Caribou

The pressure is fine. The boiler needs to be above 0 psi and below 30 psi. There is a pressure relief valve that pops off at 30 psi and if the pressure is down to zero it is possible for the water level to get low which can be dangerous. I would typically leave a boiler in the 15# to 20# range. The expansion tank is set at 12 psi so above 12 psi there is reserve fluid stored there. The temp is low so as the boiler warms the pressure will increase.

Sorry, but your boiler is not 85% efficient. It is possible that it is getting 85% combustion efficiency but that is just one part of efficiency. You are also dealing with operational losses and standby losses. 

I'm guessing that your burner (Carlin EZ-1) has been replaced in the last 15 years which helps on your combustion efficiency.

You have a zoning circulator system. That is good. Everything breaks eventually and with your system when you lose a circulator you only lose one zone. The other type of system is a zone valve system. The zone valve system has only one circulator and when that one circulator goes out you lose heat in the whole house. Zone valves go out far more frequently than circulators so you have avoided that problem.

I still recommend that you replace the boiler as funds allow but there are some positive features in your system.


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## Caribou

Your boiler has a sidearm. This provides your domestic hot water. One of two things will eventually happen to the sidearm. It will develop a leak and the pressure in the boiler will increase till the pressure relief blows off due to the added volume of water. The other, and more likely, problem is that it will build scale on the inside and/or outside of the coil. The scale acts as an insulator reducing the amount of hot water. Scale on the inside of the coil reduces the flow of water through the coil also reducing the amount of hot water available.

Repairing or replacing sidearms is an exercise in futility. There are too many opportunities for something to go wrong. Worst case scenario the boiler would have to be replaced immediately. 

I suggest that you consider getting an indirect water heater. This operates as a distinct zone on your system. Your main expense her would be the indirect tank and one more circulator. If you hired the labor out that would add a bit as well. An indirect water heater gets its heat from the boiler. Gas fired or electric water heater are direct water heaters as the heat source is inside the water heater.

One advantage to buying the indirect now is that you can replace your heating system in stages thereby spreading out the expense over time. When you finally replace the boiler you will also need to come up a way to heat your domestic water as your new boiler will not have a sidearm. I don't know of anyone producing a boiler with a sidearm but if someone tries to sell you one fire them and move on to someone else.

If you decide to go with a wood fired boiler then you can incorporate the indirect into that system and leave your current boiler as backup.


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## Jim1590

Caribou, thanks. I will digest this and do some talking with the in-laws.

You gave me a lot to dive through and I will post back questions.


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## Jim1590

Caribou, have lost heat and had to press the reset button on the oil burner control at least 4 times in last week. 
In-laws reluctant to scrap the thing, I can replace the control for $70 on Amazon and am pretty good with tools. Anything I can do to test it prior ordering, or is tripping and needing to press the red ignition button all the testing I need.

Realize your not looking at it, but thanks in advance!


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## Caribou

Jim1590 said:


> Caribou, have lost heat and had to press the reset button on the oil burner control at least 4 times in last week.
> In-laws reluctant to scrap the thing, I can replace the control for $70 on Amazon and am pretty good with tools. Anything I can do to test it prior ordering, or is tripping and needing to press the red ignition button all the testing I need.
> 
> Realize your not looking at it, but thanks in advance!


It is unlikely to be your control. It is far more likely a dirty nozzle or fuel filter. PM me with your phone number and I will talk you through some options.


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## Jim1590

Been working great since the work Caribou walked me through.

Thank you for the help.


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## cnsper

Loved working on those things in Alaska until my boss came in and pushed the reset button before I had burned the excess fuel out of the combustion chamber and blew the transformer through the wall across the room.

Hint, only push the reset button once and NEVER when someone else is working on the unit... LOL


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## Awenthomas

Hi everyone,
The old oil filter should be change at the start of heating season. Regular maintenance is also needed for oil filters. Dirty oil filters can be damage car engine. So, clean oil filters on regular basis. 

Thanks!!!!


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## Jim1590

Awenthomas said:


> Hi everyone,
> The old oil filter should be change at the start of heating season. Regular maintenance is also needed for oil filters. Dirty oil filters can be damage car engine. So, clean oil filters on regular basis.
> 
> Thanks!!!!


YAY! My first thread hijacked!

Good advice to change the filter on the furnance and cars.... strange he mentioned both.....

Should I change or clean them?

:lalala:


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## Caribou

Jim1590 said:


> Should I change or clean them?
> 
> :lalala:


Yes.

Assuming that this is a General or similar brand filter as pictured above this is the process.

Turn off the oil.
Place a pan under the filter to catch spilled oil.
Remove bolt at top of filter body.
Remove canister.
Remove filter and gasket from canister.
Wipe canister clean with paper towel or old rag.
Replace filter, gasket, canister, and bolt.
Turn on oil.
Vent excess air out of the oil filter and filter body through the small screw at the top of the filter body.

You will also now need to purge the air out of the fuel pump.

If it is the type of filter that looks like an automotive oil filter just turn the oil off, spin off the filter and spin a new one on. Again you will need to bleed all the air out of the system.

For those with a TigerLoop in their system this will purge the air from the fuel pump automatically. I still vent the filter as that is a ton of air and having your fuel pump run without the fuel that also keeps it lubricated is a less than perfect solution.


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## Jim1590

Sorry Caribou, I was trying to be tongue in cheek with the poster who used post number 1 to chime in. 

I need to find the sarcasm font!

But thank you for the walk through, I think I am going to print it and place next to the tank.


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## ottawacanada

*What can I do, myself, to enhance my home's air quality?*

There are many everyday steps Canadians can take to reduce air pollutants circulating in your home's air, including:



Store household cleaners, paint solvents, and chemical products in tightly sealed containers. If possible, keep them outdoors.


Clean and vacuum at least once a week.


Regularly wash bed linens and stuffed toys.


Keep windows closed when pollen, pollution, and humidity levels are high.


Make sure your home is properly ventilated, Modern homes are well insulated and sealed to conserve energy, which means airborne pollutants have no way to escape.


Keep humidity levels within a healthy, comfortable range to prevent growth of mold and mildew (30% - 60%).
Avoid using scented deodorizers and odor-masking air fresheners, which may have toxic chemicals.


Choose furnishings that emit the smallest possible amount of chemical vapors.


Do not allow smoking inside your home and make sure all gas appliances are properly vented.
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## technotemp

i think it has problem with pressure


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