# Need some advice on this rifle brand/model



## Binary Encryption (Oct 10, 2008)

I'm thinking very much of getting the Savage 116FHSAK in 300 Winmag








I've never had any dealings or a chance to deal with a Savage firearms. I was wondering if anyone has any views or thoughts on the company and/or specifically the model of rifle? Thank you for any posts in advance.


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## Jaxx (Oct 27, 2008)

IMHO Savage makes a good firearm for the money. I have owned a few but not in the 300 Winmag caliber. 

Customer service has been good the one time I needed it. I really like the Accu-Trigger that is used. I have a Mark II in 22lr. that is adjusted to a 1.5lb break. The absolute most accurate 22lr I have layed hands on. 

So, I do not think you would be spending money on a bad product. Hope this helps.

Jaxx


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

*Think LONG & HARD about a .300 Win Mag!*

APPLICATION, APPLICATION, APPLICATION!

Unless you are VERY used to shooting hard kicking rifles, and you know how to take/tame the recoil, you will just be wasting money!
Lightweight 'Mountain' rifles are much easier to pack when hunting, but they KICK like mules!

I have .300 Winchester, Weatherby and H&H mags, and I can tell you right now, they are NO FUN TO SHOOT!

If you aren't going to be hunting moose, elk, western grizzly or other very large and potentially dangerous game, it's not worth the money!...
And for dangerous game, I'd be more comfortable with something like a .338 Mag, but then again, that's even MORE recoil, but for hunting someplace like Alaska, you won't ever have to worry if you brought enough gun or not!
-------------------------

As for the rifle it's self,
If it's got the Savage 'Accu-Trigger', it's worth anything you pay for it!
That trigger alone is worth $150 or $200!
This particular all weather rifle is running about $550 retail right now.

DON'T BUY IT IF IT DOESN'T HAVE THE ACCU-TRIGGER!
No Accu-Trigger, it's old stock and you should deduct at least $200 from the price before you even start talking about buying it!

I find Savage rifles well made, durable, accurate, safe and VERY reasonably priced!
Since the plant's 14 million dollar retool a few years ago, their fit and finish is comparable to any of the 'Production' company rifles.

One thing Savage *CAN DO* the others can't...
Make barrel changes in a flash!
You get this one, and you can get barrels to shoot about any of the same length cartridges!

Loosen the barrel nut, remove the barrel,
Put a cartridge on the bolt and use it to head space the new barrel, and tighten the nut and you are DONE!

Takes more time to type it than it does to do it!
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Just FYI,
That 'Muzzle Brake' on the picture you show might cause you problems. 
There are a BUNCH of places that won't guide you hunting if you have one, and there are more and more gun ranges that won't allow muzzle breaks on the range if there is anyone else around.

They direct too much overpressure back at other people on the sides of you, and that is causing detached retinas in the eyes, hearing problems, and in some cases, even bursting blood vessels in the eyes and brain...
-------------------------

ALSO,
Don't rule out the Weatherby Vanguard series rifles also come in stainless with synthetic stocks, are VERY well made and accurate, 
And they come in .300 Weatherby Mag, just as powerful as the .300 Win mag (Win mag is actually a copy of the belted Weatherby mag).

Side by side compairson.
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=87785
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=86836

The Weatherby Vanguard also comes in .300 Winchester Mag,
http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=87783

One thing I would stress, Stainless Weatherby rifles come with Kreiger built barrels... Not the top of the line Kreiger, but the 'Champion' or what ever they call their house barrel.
WAY more accurate of a barrel than most 'Production' rifles come with!


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## Binary Encryption (Oct 10, 2008)

It is true the 300winmag is not for small people/novice shooter. It hurts to shoot repeatedly. And yes I'm going hunting in Alaska lol, I really needed something smaller to take. My AR-50A1 is way to much over kill and to heavy to carry on the trek. I just didn't know if Savage was junk. Thanks a ton to both of you!


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

My last trip to Alaska I carried a 12 Ga. but the trip before that with a bear tag I took my .300 Weatherby mag, and the guide wouldn't take me out until I got a .338 Mag...
After a lot of talking and a little bribery, he agreed to cover my butt with his .338.

I didn't have any problems filling the bear tag with the .300 mag (one shot drop), but they still get upset if you show up with one.
I think it might have something to do with so may 'Tourists' showing up thinking they are going to hunt dangerous animals with a pop gun and getting themselves and the guides into trouble!

Anyway, the best thing I can tell you is to cut the stock short, 
Attach the largest 'Limb Saver' gel filled recoil pad you can find to it, and then wear a 'Bitch Pad' when you are sighting in and practicing!
(you will have a coat and other insulation on up there, so the stock still won't be too short!)

I'm not above attaching the rifle to the bench with a hook when I'm sighting in or practicing with the 'Boomers'!

The main rule in rifle shooting is, If you can't shoot it without flinching, you can't hit the target!
SO,
Anything you can do to reduce the felt recoil is perfectly OK! (and anyone that tells you different is a block head!)

I NEVER feel the recoil in the field when I'm shooting at game, 
But I've sure went home with some badly bruised shoulders and some serious flinching to work out from practicing with 'Boomers'!


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

One other tidbit of information...

You can buy a rifle down here in the lower 48, hunt with it up there, and then sell it up there before you come back for the same price you bought it for down here if you pick the right caliber and type of rifle.

.300 or .338 Mag, stainless with synthetic stock is the right kind of rifle...
By the time they pay transport costs in the outlaying areas, they will have an extra $100 to $150 in the rifles, so a very slightly use one for $150 off what they can buy it for new is a great deal for them!

On my second hunting trip (wolves) I sold my .300 mag before I left and made $7 dollars in the deal, and didn't have to pack a rifle I wasn't going to use again in the lower 48 again unless I went Moose, Elk or Grisly hunting, which I'm not likely to do anytime soon...

My optics fit nicely in my carry on bag, and I was happy as a clam with the deal!
The guy even bought the case and extra ammo I took along!


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## Frank (Oct 23, 2008)

All of the currently produced savages are fine weapons for the price . 
As mentioned the application is the key to selecting the caliber the manufacturer is somewhat irrelevant


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't know about that...
If I wanted it to hold value, I'd get one of the 'Big Five'...
Winchester,
Remington,
Weatherby,
Savage, 
Ruger.

You can also throw in Sako and a couple of others, but the 'Big 5' is what will sell the best.
------------------------

Optics on a .300 Mag light weight should be considered VERY carefully!

Life time warranty on something like 'Night Force' means very little with price tags well over $1,000 and 4 or 5 month turn around times if you have a warranty...

And with a .300 Mag, You ARE going to have warranties!
A .300 Mag will beat the guts out of all but a few of the older, better names in the business...

I personally wouldn't consider anything in 'Meters', so that lets out the Asian and European optics.

I wouldn't consider anything but PROVEN optic companies that have a track record keeping their optics together when mounted on Magnum rifles,
That brings you around to Leupold, Burris,.... and that's about it!
........................

The optics that retain their value the best is Leupold, no question about it.
Ziess, Schmidt & Bender, ect. are all fine optics, but in America, it's Leupold that will retain the most value and give the best service...

That USA made and lifetime warranty doesn't hurt anything either!
And the fact that anything I've ever sent in for 'Life Time' warranty service has been back in my hands in less than three weeks!...
-------------------------

In my opinion, and I buy/mount/shoot a LOT of optics...

About the best deal on the market for a true hunting rifle optics is Burris right now, with Leupold lesser grades bringing up the next ten places in the pack...

Burris is making very good optic sets right now that will live on big 'Boomers'...
I don't know how there warranty service is, I've only been using Burris for about 5 years now, and I haven't had to get one serviced yet...
(I'd say that's a GOOD sign!)

My returns to Leupold for warranty work have mostly been just plain old wear & tear!
Some of my optics are older than me, and I'm an OLD FART!
Every once in a while a seal will let go and let moisture condense in the optics, or a friction knob will not keep zero, and they have NEVER charged me anything for any of it!
So I can sing Leupold's praises...

Now, I have a Schmidt & Bender that has been gone for 5 months and I just got a card back from them saying that it would be at least another 6 weeks before they could fix their optics.... Anyone want to buy a S&B optic when it gets back?

I had a Night Force that was mounted on a Winchester .300 short mag, it was in the 'shop' 3 times for a total of 13 months of the first 18 months I owned it!
Finally found one of those goofy military hardware nuts to buy it for WAY more than it was worth...

Hung a 3rd rate Leupold (VX3) on that same rifle, 3 years, no problems... Still dead zeroed at 200 yards with no problems...

Anyway, just my opinion...


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## Frank (Oct 23, 2008)

Like I said,"All of the currently produced savages are fine weapons for the price ". You said."I don't know about that...
If I wanted it to hold value, I'd get one of the 'Big Five'...
Winchester,
Remington,
Weatherby,
Savage,
Ruger.

Savage is in one of your big five! I think that 's what I was saying
But we were not talking about holding value.
Jeephammer, address the issue/ original post.
The poster wants to know about the company and more specifically about that particular weapon.
I know nothing about that specific weapon but savage is currently a big 5 producer and my experience with savage in there latest models is good. 
You ranted off into scopes post your own thread about scopes and whatever. focus on the subject at hand. I know a few to many brews make's it hard but give it a try.


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## coinguy (Oct 13, 2008)

Savage rifles are pretty well built, for the money. I've had several friends turn them into real tack drivers. 

Since you mention 'smaller' and 'Alaska' you might want to look at a different type of rifle. Take a look at the Marlin guide gun in .45-70 I think the 45-70 is a better cartridge for big game, and has proven itself well for over 100 years. Something to be said about that big slug moving downrange. With the 'leverevolution' ammo it is a real hot cartridge. Excellent penatration and energy. Not as 'sexy' as one of the bottle necked cartridges, but it will work very well.

You could make an excellent two gun combo with this rifle and the Magnum Research BFR in 45-70 I really enjoy shooting mine!

Anyway, the Savage rifles you asked about are good, the company has been around for many years and would also serve you well.


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## Binary Encryption (Oct 10, 2008)

coinguy said:


> Savage rifles are pretty well built, for the money. I've had several friends turn them into real tack drivers.
> 
> Since you mention 'smaller' and 'Alaska' you might want to look at a different type of rifle. Take a look at the Marlin guide gun in .45-70 I think the 45-70 is a better cartridge for big game, and has proven itself well for over 100 years. Something to be said about that big slug moving downrange. With the 'leverevolution' ammo it is a real hot cartridge. Excellent penatration and energy. Not as 'sexy' as one of the bottle necked cartridges, but it will work very well.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry I meant smaller than my AR-50A1 not smaller than the 300winmag, my bad. Smaller than the AR-50A1 is why I want the 300.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Frank said:


> All of the currently produced savages are fine weapons for the price .
> As mentioned the application is the key to selecting the caliber the manufacturer is somewhat irrelevant


Frank, the point I was trying to make was that 'Caliber & Manufacturer' are NOT irrelevant...

There isn't much use for a caliber that you can't get ammo for about anywhere in Alaska...
And since we were talking about a rifle purchase for Alaska hunting...
AND,
You can't fly with loaded ammo anymore, I would think that would be an issue to cover.

As for 'Rants', I didn't know I was on one...
I just covered the maker/caliber issue Binary Encryption and tried to 'Clear Up' and/or correct what you wrote, 
Then moved on to what I though might be useful information about optics.

Since I have done gun smithing work, for over 35 years, and I was a military weapons and weapons systems specalist, 
AND,
I've been to Alaska 10 or 11 times hunting, hiking, ect down through the years, I though I might have an idea or two that could be considered by Binary Encryption.

Sorry if that offended you.
-----------------------------------------

CoinGuy, I've seen some .45-70's up there, but a .45-70 isn't what I'd call a 'Tack Driver' at ranges you often take shots from in Alaska.

My last bear shot was about 425 yards, and my last wolf shot was right at 600 yards.
I don't think a .45-70 is up to that, although I have to agree, it packs quite a bit of energy at the target!

Since any modern .45-70 has to keep chamber pressures that won't blow up the older black power guns, I don't see any resurrection of the .45-70 anytime soon...

CoinGuy, If you are a .45-70 fan,
Have you seen the .45-70 conversion barrels for the British SMLE rifles that came out in .303?
That conversion REALLY makes an old, cheap British .303 SMLE useful!
I think 'Gibbs' is making the rifles, and kits to convert the rifles over still.
-----------------------------

Binary Encryption,

AR-50 is quite the rifle!
The first round of Gail McMillan bolt .50 BMG rifles and Barrett .50 BMG semi Autos were operational when I was in the military, and I saw them do some really impressive things!

As it stands right now, the sniping record is held by a Canadian sniper with a Gail McMillan .50 BMG and it's slightly over 2,800 yards!

I remember in testing we were able to hold on a target at 2,000 yards and I was just DUMBFOUNDED!

The Royal Marines are using a Accuracy International (AI) .338 Lupua Mag, and they qualify at 2,000 yards now with that!
BUT,
That .338 Can't disable Light Armor at 2,000 Yards like the .50 BMG rifles can!

I have a 'Ferret' .50 BMG top end for my AR lowers, and it's just plain BRUTAL to shoot for me anymore...
I'm getting too old for 'boomers' like that thing!
I'm going to sell it over the winter or at the machine gun shoot next spring...

If I get another 50 BMG, it's going to be a Barrett or something that will tame the recoil!

If you see the new 'Cobb' 50 BMG rifles that are manually operated but magazine fed (left hand bolt, almost as fast as the Barrett semi auto, but with none of the 'Failure to Feed' problems that dust and moisture can cause with the Barrett M-82.
Slick, well made piece, and if they ever hang a ban on semi auto .50 Boomers, this is Manual, stright pull bolt gun!

AND,
I can't blame you, While actually getting to use a .50 BMG for something other than paper targets would be fun, 
There is no damn way I would want to drag a 35 pound rifle up and down mountains at 6,000+ Feet!
I crank about a 7 pound Mountain rifle!


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## coinguy (Oct 13, 2008)

JeepHammer said:


> Frank, the point I was trying to make was that 'Caliber & Manufacturer' are NOT irrelevant...
> 
> There isn't much use for a caliber that you can't get ammo for about anywhere in Alaska...
> And since we were talking about a rifle purchase for Alaska hunting...
> ...


Actually, you can still travel with ammo. It must be in factory boxes and there is a limit, but it can be checked in as well.



JeepHammer said:


> CoinGuy, I've seen some .45-70's up there, but a .45-70 isn't what I'd call a 'Tack Driver' at ranges you often take shots from in Alaska.
> 
> My last bear shot was about 425 yards, and my last wolf shot was right at 600 yards.
> I don't think a .45-70 is up to that, although I have to agree, it packs quite a bit of energy at the target!


Well, that is a bit down range, and might just be hard for most to hit with anything, but there are confirmed one shot kills with 45-70's at over a mile. Not that I could do it, but it has been done....



JeepHammer said:


> Since any modern .45-70 has to keep chamber pressures that won't blow up the older black power guns, I don't see any resurrection of the .45-70 anytime soon...


You will find many types of factory ammo for 45-70, some marked as safe for older actions, some marked for the Marlin and Mauser and some only for some of the newer actions. I shoot trapdoor and 'average' ammo in my BFR and Marlin 1895, and BP loads in my 1881 and trapdoors. I've had some of the commercial super hot ammo that I won't be shooting again in my revolver any time soon!



JeepHammer said:


> CoinGuy, If you are a .45-70 fan,
> Have you seen the .45-70 conversion barrels for the British SMLE rifles that came out in .303?
> That conversion REALLY makes an old, cheap British .303 SMLE useful!
> I think 'Gibbs' is making the rifles, and kits to convert the rifles over still.


I would like one of those and/or the Siamese Mauser done the same. I have thought about rebarreling a 1914/P17 action some day. Just another project in the back of the brainbox.



JeepHammer said:


> AR-50 is quite the rifle!
> The first round of Gail McMillan bolt .50 BMG rifles and Barrett .50 BMG semi Autos were operational when I was in the military, and I saw them do some really impressive things!
> 
> As it stands right now, the sniping record is held by a Canadian sniper with a Gail McMillan .50 BMG and it's slightly over 2,800 yards!
> ...


There you go with them itty bitty bullets again! We used to pick off rock monsters at those distances with a pair of 20mm lahti rifles owned by friends. Of course that was back when the ammo was 'only' $20 a round! Now it is just too expensive!

I've shoot Barretts and Ma Deuces' as well, and it is fun to launch a big slug downrange with them.

My wife loved to shoot the Lahti, and would often let guys buy rounds for her, when they were too afraid of that 10 foot long rifle. We did a video for the Japanese market about coming to America on vacation. Our section was coming here to shoot machine guns. They had a model to demo the guns, and she did very well.....until she looked at the Lahti! Her eyes got quite large, she walked backwards and since I don't speak Japanese, I only guess at what she was saying! So I'm the only westerner appearing in that part of the video.....

We like the 20mm so much we evern built a muzzle loader in that caliber. We used pulled bullets. It is made out of a Vulcan barrel. Of course the day we had a round of surplus bullets explode after going through the target at 500 yards caused us to think about making our own instead of buying from the surplus dealers.....



JeepHammer said:


> I have a 'Ferret' .50 BMG top end for my AR lowers, and it's just plain BRUTAL to shoot for me anymore...
> I'm getting too old for 'boomers' like that thing!
> I'm going to sell it over the winter or at the machine gun shoot next spring...


I was thinking about one of those - are they that much more recoiling? My experiences with the rifles have been with others.

G


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Savage Rifles.

You had better keep a spare extractor or two on hand. They are made of something lesser than steel, it appears. They are tiny, compared to other extractors. They tend to wear fast, and they'll limp-wrist casings back into the action when they're worn. Ask me how I know.

Otherwise it's a decent tool. I've owned a few.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Coinguy, I paid $1,200 for my Ferret top end, and that was money wasted!
Short barrel so I don't get the muzzle velocity I should, and on an AR lower, the recoil is BRUTAL if you don't strap the gun to the bench!

The recoil is like a .500 Nitro Express, or maybe worse.

At least with McMillian and Barrett you have a very effective muzzle brake and extra barrel weight to help tame the recoil, with a Ferret you get NONE of that.

I turned, threaded and Installed an AR muzzle brake on mine (There went another $200), but with the short barrel, I'm still not getting the range I should out of it...

I may keep it just to remind me of what mistakes I made buying it...

Another thing, you have to 'Shotgun Break' the AR to remove the bolt and extract empty/insert the next round.
I find that REAL unhandy and it would be a deal breaker in a tactical situation.

SO...
Have you seen Ronnie Barrett's new 25 MM shoulder fired rifle yet?
M-109, and it's operational with the Marines & SF.
One heck of a firearm! 
Recoil is about like a 12 gauge shot gun and you can put 10 rounds on a target as fast as you can pull the trigger!

Max effective range is 2,500 yards, but out guys are killing vehicles (and camels!) well beyond that!

I fired it at Remingtons Arkansas ammunition plant range a couple of year ago just before it went operational, and at 500 yards, it was SUPER IMPRESSIVE!

Not that 20mm gut buster you were talking about (no rifle should be mounted on SKIDS!) but it's accurate, and it's DEVASTATING! 
(Jihadists beware! Allah is closer than you think!)


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## WEcoyote (Nov 19, 2010)

I like .308 ballistic quality's and ease of acquisition. Having said that what is your budget? for a dependable quality start may i suggest a Mossberg 100 ATR chambered for .308 and with a leupold rifleman 3-9X40 scope zeroed at 250 yds.

bolt action magazine fed durable finish light weight accurate 

total package 400 USD or less

Always buy from a gun show Always buy new if you lack proper gunsmith experience. Always spend at least AS much on a scope as a long rifle. Do your homework. 

*Always is a breakable rule if you educate yourself past the novice point.

Hard to qualify good advice for a substitute without knowing your experience, budget and what your trying to accomplish with the rifle.

300 win mag is just not my style. takes a lot of powder to hand load the brass isnt good for as many reloads with most mag cartridges and i prefer to have as few calibers in my safe as possible so that my ammo fits all my weapons.

I stick with .308 win, .45 ACP and 12 gauge. 

.45 ACP = 1911 and 45 carbine 
.308 win = SKS and long rifle
12 gauge = 32" smooth boar for upland game and 24" rifled barrel for slug gun. both pump.

Wile E. Coyote


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## Binary Encryption (Oct 10, 2008)

Wow, I was kinda shocked to have a two year old post brought back to life lol. I did in fact get a 300 winmag weatherby vanguard and it's about the best rifle I've ever owned/shot. You just can't miss with it.


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## AlaskaSrChief (Oct 27, 2010)

I've gone through a number of bolt actions up here in AK. I now use a Browning BAR in .338WM. It's a little heavier than most bolts, but you can't beat the quick follow-up shots when dealing with Brown Bears and Moose. Plus there's less felt recoil due to the semi-auto action.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Binary Encryption said:


> Wow, I was kinda shocked to have a two year old post brought back to life lol. I did in fact get a 300 winmag weatherby vanguard and it's about the best rifle I've ever owned/shot. You just can't miss with it.


If you go to Alaska to hunt, remember the brown bear rules. 
1. Attach a bell to yourself that dings with every step. or:
2. Carry a whistle and blow it every ten feet or so. or:
3. watch for tracks and scat, the brown bear tracks are usually larger than the black bear and a black bear's scat usually has berries in it while a brown bear's scat usually has those silly assed bells and whistles in it. :lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash:
Had you going on that one huh?


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## dakota_cachers (Nov 4, 2011)

Here is a rifle for you guys that like recoil.


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## Onebigelf (Sep 17, 2011)

Leupold is making Redfield scopes now.

John


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