# Fire Suppression After SHTF



## TommyJefferson (May 12, 2010)

This morning I was reading some literature about repelling gangs after SHTF.

It occurred to me that for thousands of years Fire has been a weapon marauders use to attack residences and neighborhoods. I wondered if my house could withstand a fire attack by a gang of six thugs. I concluded it would not.

A doctor fishing buddy of mine was raised in Nigeria. He told me that rich people in Nigeria who live out in the country have zero expectation of government police or fire services in the event of a bandit attack. He told me that bandits would often attempt to set fire to a landowner's home in order to "open up" the building.

Consequently, people in rural Nigeria (and Mexico) minimize exposed wood on their homes, build strong adobe garden walls, and have a large cisterns to fight fires.

I have large, commercial quality Badger and Ansul fire extinguishers in my garage and kitchen. I do not have the means to suppress a fire on the outside of my house.

Thoughts:

- I need more fire extinguishers, especially in my vehicles.

- As a kid I remember helping our neighbors fight small grass fires with wet blankets. It actually worked pretty well. The phone would ring. We'd jump in the truck and speed down the road to go help them.

- I should buy a high pressure pump and rig it with garden hose fittings and an extension cord to run off my generator.

- I need a suburban cistern.

- Tar shingled roofs and wood siding burn like mad. An all-brick home with a sheet metal roof would be better. My Nigerian friend says he feels unsafe when sleeping in wooden/tar houses.


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

TommyJefferson said:


> - Tar shingled roofs and wood siding burn like mad. An all-brick home with a sheet metal roof would be better. My Nigerian friend says he feels unsafe when sleeping in wooden/tar houses.


Someone tried to burn down our kingdom hall. But, the congregation had built it with asbestos siding. The arsonists only succeeded in staining a small portion of the siding. Don't know if the stuff is still available, but it should be considered due to its inherent fire resistance.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

> - I should buy a high pressure pump and rig it with garden hose fittings and an extension cord to run off my generator.


Do some price comparisons, but a dedicated semi-trash pump may work a bit better.
I'll just reference one but obviously shop around.
Champion 2" Semi-Trash Water Pump with Hose Kit, Maintenance & Garage Accessories, Garage & Auto Maintenance, Auto & ATV : Cabela's

Not sure if it would work for you as you need a decent source of water nearby, but for around $200-250, you have a pump that will push out 150 GPM's with plenty of head to get that volume to a roof or wherever it's need.

For small fires or fire control around an outside fire, I use a 4-gallon backpack sprayer which works well.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

I've worried about this myself. 

I think in this case a good offense is my only route at the moment.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

My retreat cabin has a metal roof and Hardieboard exterior walls, facsure, overhangs. That gives it a fighting chance not to catch fire. All exposed wood is painted with water glass. 

Also I have two deicated 100 ft long 3/4 inch water lines. One at each end, about 40ft from the cabin. I have a 1in line from my well and my community water meter. It is tied together with a 3 way valve, in case one source quits. I put those firehose style water sprayers on each end. They hang inside a small covered box I made for them. I even made sure the faucets were 1 in as to charge the hose as best it can. I can spray a fair stream all the way over the cabin. Not fire dept for sure, but beats the heck out of nothing.

Best I can do.

Jimmy


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## TommyJefferson (May 12, 2010)

ZoomZoom said:


> ...a dedicated semi-trash pump may work a bit better.


Thank you for the research lead. I will investigate this.



Jimmy24 said:


> ...All exposed wood is painted with water glass.


I had never heard this term "Water Glass". I had to go look it up... https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sodium_silicate
Thank you for prompting me to learn something new today.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

We need to remember windows, also. If TSHTF, wire over the windows to prevent ''devices" from penetrating the windows. Sometimes referred to in the military as "grenade wire".


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I absolutely cannot stress how good this stuff is:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Asbestos*



efbjr said:


> Someone tried to burn down our kingdom hall. But, the congregation had built it with asbestos siding. The arsonists only succeeded in staining a small portion of the siding. Don't know if the stuff is still available, but it should be considered due to its inherent fire resistance.


The asbestos will kill you with out the fire.

It is no longer available .


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Blob. Can't play the video on this computer. I'm aware of the stuff the fire departments use and have seen some incredible results with it.

Is the product in the video available to the public?


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

TommyJefferson said:


> I had never heard this term "Water Glass". I had to go look it up... https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Sodium_silicate
> Thank you for prompting me to learn something new today.


Sorry should have explained alittle more. It's been around a long time. I first used it behind some concrete board I was using to make a fire proof wall for a woodheater.

Jimmy


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*The old timers*

The old timers kept the yard around the cabin bare.

They were afraid of wild fires setting the house on fire.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

I have 100 feet of garden hose on a reel with a straight tip and shut off connected to water in the basement. It has enough reach to get to the front of the house or the back of the garage, as well as anywhere in the house or garage. Having community water pressure is vital to being able to use it effectively, and if the water pumps are down, it becomes a moot point. The back up plan includes pressurized water cans and multiple dry chemical extinguishers. 

My main concern with the original scenario presented would be the bad guys waiting around outside to shoot anybody coming out of the burning house. They would need to be neutralized prior to trying to fight a fire.

There are numerous sources for used fire engine sales on the net. Many of these engines are smaller brush units with a pump that may or may not be functioning, as well as a small to medium sized water tank. Some of these are under 10,000 dollars and may work well for those folks well out in the boonies. There are also skid mount pumps and tanks that fit in the bed of a pickup truck, as well as the previously mentioned portable pumps and trash pumps.

You can put out a pretty decent amount of fire with a garden hose or a pressurized water extinguisher, but don't trade your life for property.


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## FiremanED (Oct 9, 2010)

The problem with garden hoses is that there is not enough VOLUME to put out anything but a small fire. You have to be able to reach the seat of the fire. If not the water will turn to steam before it extinguishes anything. It'll never reach the real fire through the heat. Anything is better than nothing. But don't get hurt or think that a garden hose or other smaller hose is sufficient. (PS I am a fireman)


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

FiremanED said:


> The problem with garden hoses is that there is not enough VOLUME to put out anything but a small fire. You have to be able to reach the seat of the fire. If not the water will turn to steam before it extinguishes anything. It'll never reach the real fire through the heat. Anything is better than nothing. But don't get hurt or think that a garden hose or other smaller hose is sufficient. (PS I am a fireman)


I do understand where your coming from, but if there is nothing else, what else do you do? I designed/thought up my system from what we saved 2 small houses with. Granted two 3/4 lines are not enough to stop a fully engulfed building. But we managed to get on them quick. The two lines did pretty good. Managed to save 'em with smoke and water damage mainly. I think concentrating the two lines together made the difference.

In a shtf situtation, ya got to do, what ya got to do

Jimmy


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## StillStanding (Jan 24, 2009)

Tommy, all,

The very best thing that you can do for fire safety for you, your family, and your property is to install a sprinkler system, that is, an automatic thermally activated sprinkler head in every room of the house (two or more in larger rooms). Same systems that have been used in commercial and industrial buildings since the 1920s. I've read through every word of every study I can find and the track record of these things is nothing short of amazing in terms of lives saved and dollars of losses prevented.

In general these things work because they contain the fire before it spreads. 90% of residential fires in sprinklered single family dwellings are put out with a single sprinkler head activating with 9% requiring two sprinkler heads. The outlying 1% are arson cases where there are multiple points of ignition within the building.

Cost/benefit wise these reduce the size of any cistern or pumping system you might want to have because you only have to plan for around 10 gpm of flow for, say, 10 minutes or so.

In areas prone to wildfires lawn sprinklers perform a preventative function but require a large water source.

Aside from all that the more basic precautions you can take are smoke detectors and large fire extinguishers on each floor. IMO you really want to have 4-5 fire extinguishers that are as large as you can comfortably carry (20# dry chemical or CO2 or 2.5 gallon water) around the house. I've had to use mine twice in actual emergencies and while one of those was welding related the other was a fire from a light fixture that could have happened to anyone.

If you're out there with the fire pumps and 2" hose probably things are too far gone to save much so you're better off having another habitable structure separated by a firebreak.


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

BillM said:


> The asbestos will kill you with out the fire.
> 
> It is no longer available .


This wasn't the loose stuff. It was a siding shingle product that did not have loose fibers. The material had to be drilled to install as pounding a nail through it would crack the shingle. When the fire was lit (probably some lighter fluid sprayed on the shingle and ignited) all that it did was leave a little soot discoloration on the material that was easily washed off.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

FiremanED said:


> The problem with garden hoses is that there is not enough VOLUME to put out anything but a small fire. You have to be able to reach the seat of the fire. If not the water will turn to steam before it extinguishes anything. It'll never reach the real fire through the heat. Anything is better than nothing. But don't get hurt or think that a garden hose or other smaller hose is sufficient. (PS I am a fireman)


So was I, that is, a Firefighter for about 10 years. I understand your point, and wouldn't expect to put out a fully involved 2 1/2 story house with a garden hose. I would probably get a good knock on a room and contents though. From personal experience, a garden hose has saved 2 houses from lighting up due to proximity to a fully involved detached garage. It beats standing around with your hands in your pockets waiting for a shiny red truck to show up.

Most importantly...if there is any doubt about your ability to put a fire out, then get to safety.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*loose Fibers*



efbjr said:


> This wasn't the loose stuff. It was a siding shingle product that did not have loose fibers. The material had to be drilled to install as pounding a nail through it would crack the shingle. When the fire was lit (probably some lighter fluid sprayed on the shingle and ignited) all that it did was leave a little soot discoloration on the material that was easily washed off.


The danger with this product comes when you drill the hole in it or saw it to fit a shingle or cut it to trim an opening . then there are loose fibers.

This building material is no longer sold anyway !


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## baconexplosion (Jan 7, 2012)

I've considered this issue, before. I wonder: what kind of work would it take to install some type of sprinkler system on the exterior of the house? Say something that could wet the roof down if need be? I would think something like this connected to a well or some other on site water supply would be very beneficial in areas prone to wild fires.


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