# Riots



## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Recently Pyro created a thread discussing tactical vests and the discussion hit on riots. So rather than thread jack I have created this thread to discuss riot preparedness.

We all know that riots are very likely to break out soon after the SHTF and many will occur in highly populated areas. Best solution don't be in an area where riots are likely. but if you find yourself in the middle of one you should remember a few things.

1. riot control is for people with training, equipment, and man power. 
2. get away as quickly as you can. if getting away is not an option find a secure location where you can safely wait it out. 
3. you dont want to be in the middle injuries are likely when hoards of people start rioting. 

It is highly likely that there will be LEO and perhaps even Military attempting to control the rioting crowd. It's also highly likely that OC and pepper spray will be used. 

If you aren't directly involved you'll most likely get the gaseous fog in the air if you're in close proximity. It's quite easy to train yourself, through repeated exposure, to run and fight under an indirect hit. I've been sprayed indirectly/been in the fog numerous times, mostly by other cops (accidentally of course), and I've gotten to the point where I cough a little but have no problems completing my duties. A direct hit is another story but is unlikely if you aren't involved in the riot. A direct hit will burn like the dickens for days and will likely incapacitate you for an hour or so. You will still be able to run and fight but only for about 30 seconds to a minute. After that small window you'll be snoting and tearing up. If you are directly hit with spray do not rub your eyes. Flush your eyes with water and baby shampoo (if practical) and allow moving air to hit your eyeballs. you will have to hold your eyelids open because the instinct is for them to clamp shut. After the initial burn subsides to a tolerable level it will be reactivated each time water hits it for about 24-36 hours. 

That being said if you find yourself in the middle of a riot and you cannot escape the best way to avoid getting directly hit with spray is to make it very clear that you are not a participant by not doing rioter things and by being cooperative with anyone trying to control the crowd. They can help remove you from the danger zone (no pun intended) and that's exactly what you want.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

You forgot one thing:
Gray man the run.if you attract attention, it won't end well.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

ras1219como said:


> 2. get away as quickly as you can. if getting away is not an option ....


MAKE getting away an option!!! Anyone who has ever been near an actual riot knows you have NO CONTROL over what is happening or about to happen. Getting your butt out of there should be priority number one, period!


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

True to both of you. Getting away is absolutely 100% the way to go however there should always be a plan B. Plan B would be finding a safe location.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

ras1219como said:


> Flush your eyes with water and baby shampoo (if practical)


Really?. Like that johnson&johnson no more tears baby soap?.
Thats good info, cheers


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Yep good old Johnson and Johnson works really well. I've also heard of people mixing in a little sugar to the soap but I'm not sure what that adds. Dawn dish soap also does the trick, cuts through the oil, but if you get it in your eyes it will just burn more. I always stuck with baby shampoo or premade decontamination wipes but those are more expensive and unnecessary.


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

depends on the riot ..... sometimes the first thing you do is arm yourself .... if not carrying, you look for the next capable weapon you see .... some riots will be 100% centered on YOU and your ethnic brethren .... that club maybe the difference in your dash to safety .....


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

While we do use gas and chemical irritants in our riot control plans, we also use stinger grenades, 12ga bean bag rounds and 40mm rubber pellet rounds. While the 12ga is generally target selective the other two are not. And no amount of baby shampoo and sugar (which we also use) is going to help you if you take a bean bag round to the thigh or dozens of .32cal rubber balls to the knee cap. So I am also a big fan of the run, hide, fight system. But shin protection, knee pads, etc. go a long way to protecting you from rubber projectiles (which are generally fired so they skip off the ground and ricochet up into your lower legs). Might be worth having in the Get Home Bag. 

If the military gets involved they will set up M5 MCCM's to direct the crowd's direction of travel. They are essentially claymore mines filled with rubber shot. The military also has microwave guns which can make crowds of people dizzy and disoriented, and worse. And believe me, that's not all they have. City PD's also love to use firetrucks and high pressure water to control movement and defend certain buildings or positions. 

As it pertains to this thread; riots will generally form is dense housing areas, places like FEMA camps and Red Cross shelters and wherever food and other supplies are stored and not being handed out fast enough. Walmart is a more likely place for a riot to begin than an affluent neighborhood. Which is why we prep, so when something goes horribly wrong we are not part of the masses of sheeple trying to instantly get survival goods. Avoiding places like that will help you avoid a riot before one even begins.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Sentry you're absolutely correct. We use LL too but since there is little defense to them other than not being involved I didn't mention them.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

At a community carnival a few years ago, it was a literal powder keg ready to blow. LEO supervisor on site refused help from neighboring communities. Maybe he made the right decision, but there were three different gangs that decided they were going to go that night. Had it gotten lit, it would have been an ugly mess with several hundred competing gang members involved. I read the after event report, and it was very critical of the supervisor and his decision. I'm worried that it will blow this year.


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## pyro3190 (Apr 30, 2013)

Very good discussion guys, I can lean some stuff from all of you


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> Sentry you're absolutely correct. We use LL too but since there is little defense to them other than not being involved I didn't mention them.


At our last crowd control refresher training the instructor joked that these new polymer garbage cans with attached lids was the greatest thing that has ever happened for less lethal munitions. Then he showed us a few riot videos where people use metal garbage can lids to deflect bean bag rounds and stinger grenades. So the only thing that's really left is to put on a red man suit or a baseball catcher's outfit.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well if you happen to be in my riot and wearing shin knee and body armor I just might think you came to party! Every riot I've ever been involved with had participants and idiots who couldn't quite grasp that people flipping cars and setting stuff on fire was a crowd to avoid. But even with all that there were numerous opportunities to avoid. After that they sorta went from innocent victims to interested observers to full on car flipping madmen. Tons o fun!


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Then he showed us a few riot videos where people use metal garbage can lids to deflect bean bag rounds and stinger grenades.





mojo4 said:


> Well if you happen to be in my riot and wearing shin knee and body armor I just might think you came to party!


Whenever I watch riots unfolding in news reports, from all around the world, I'm amazed that the rioters never come better prepared to stand off against the police. Here I include the anarchists who just want to destroy stuff and I also include the people who are protesting legitimate grievances and are facing off against police who are the enforcers of the regime.

If there are 300 cops there all kitted out in riot gear, what happens when there are 500 protestors all equipped with gas masks, shin pad, helmets, and nicely decorated Roman Shields made from garbage can lids? I'm guessing that cops then have to escalate their violence in order to disperse the crowd, for the power of the regime must always win out in the end, but that comes at a really high cost to the regime, gunning down people in cold blood. The alternative is for cops to withdraw, like the Swedish cops, and so the protestors/rioters win.

If you're going to riot or protest to the point where the cops have to show up, don't you, as a rioter or protestor, want to prevail? And yet cops all around the world seem able to disperse these rioters and anarchists and protesters quite easily with the tools at their disposal. This leads me to question what's in the mind of the rioters and protesters.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> ...This leads me to question what's in the mind of the rioters and protesters.


Nothing.

Sheeple wanting to join in the current herd activity (rioting) then baaaaaing about the repercussions.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

The riots I have been involved in have always been a mixture of people who had stern intentions in causing damage and demonstrating their outrage at something and people who are essentially mindless followers who saw an opportunity to do something taboo, let their inner psycho/child out or just wanted to have a story to tell. The former is usually less than 10% of the crowd where the latter makes up the strong majority. Cut the head off the snake and the body dies.

But Bobbb, I will also point out that if you see 300 cops in riot gear you can bet there are 100+ uniformed LEO's a couple blocks back, 25-50 on rooftops with rifles (or less lethal munitions) and 50-100 more in tactical uniforms waiting for things go from bad to worse. Most PD's capable of handling a riot never show all of their cards. They put out as many people as they think are needed to demonstrate force without making the crowd look like victims (as in more cops than rioters). You can also bet neighboring agencies are gearing up to provide support as well.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

The only riots I have been even near has been the University of Dayton - Halloween and St Patty's Day riots back in 1990-92 area where everyone was drunk and they started pulling sofas and stuff from the ghetto (student housing area) and burning them in the streets.... Fire Dept. used water to disperse the crowds while police video taped it, faces of students on film showing them in a destructive act where expelled from school.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

Many years ago I was in London England when they were have a "peaceful" walk-in to Talafair Square.I was sightseeing(alone) and I noticed hundreds of people walking in that direction.I got this uneasy feeling altho at the minute everything seemed peaceful.It got to the point I could hardly make my way through the crowd and things were getting a little more rowdy as I walked.There was a very tall guy walking in front of me and I guess he had the same feeling that I did and was trying to get out of the crowd too.I grabbed his belt loops and he kinda of "made way" for a small group of us trying to get out of the crowd.Later that evening in my hotel I saw where it had turn into a riot and just pass where we all walk several people were hurt pretty bad...So follow your instinct: if it feels wrong ,it probably is, get out as fast as you can!


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Two riots ago local police came around my neighborhood announcing that we were on our own, manpower was needed in those areas, what do you do?.
Since riots are a human made explosion cause by many situations paying attention to the news would be helpful in preparing for whatever your needs
are. Food riots after a storm are very dangerous, groups of people attacking other for supplies, preparations will keep you out of trouble. Civil disturbances are focus on a specific group of citizens, business, areas of town,etc,those areas will be shut down completely. Again local news media will be your best source of info ,stay tune to your neighborhood problems, stay indoors ,call your local law enforcement for info, have supplies on hand, because no vest ,weapon, ammo will keep you safe in a civil disturbance or combat zone; home with the family will.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> no vest ,weapon, ammo will keep you safe in a civil disturbance or combat zone; home with the family will.


Unless of course the riot moves into your neighborhood and your house is plundered or set on fire.


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## MsSage (Mar 3, 2012)

ras shampoo dont work.....LOLOLOLOL only thing that really works is TIME. Fox takes a min to kick in and its HOT HOT HOT but none of the other issues as OC. Its water based but still time is the only cure. I get hit once a quarter and second hand exposure about once a month maybe more.
All the riots I have seen have been behind the walls so its a bit different. 
I know I dont worry too much about that ...but I do have another week out here on the east coast till I get back to my doughnut hole of the country....


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

MsSage I agree it won't take the burn out but it will rise the oil off which is better than nothing!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> Unless of course the riot moves into your neighborhood and your house is plundered or set on fire.


I had a mild thought about that a while back...... 
I bought a fire hydrant wrench, a fire hose nozzle and 300 feet (4x 75ft) of fire hose off eBay for about $200.

I figure if the fire dept is too busy somewhere else, I may as well put it out myself.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Have you heard of pepperball? It is essentially paintballs (for paintball guns) filled with powdered oleoresin capsicum. They have their limitations but are fairly effective. I have a buddy that tried to develop "stinkball". Which would be paintballs filled with synthetic skunk oil, chunks of rotting meat (from rendering plants) and lime green henta ink. His theory was that you would smell 3 steps beyond horrific for 2-3 days and be covered in bright green ink for 10-14 days. No matter how many times you showered. No one want to riot with someone that smells worse than the South end of a Northbound skunk. Apparently synthetic skunk oil can causing vomiting as fast as ipecac. I considered buying a few hundred rounds of his prototypes for anti-riot use, but decided I would rather just use rubber bullets. The hose idea is a good one however. I may have to look into that.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> The hose idea is a good one however. I may have to look into that.


Thread sizes vary all over the place. 
There's even Chicago FD standard, NYFD standard, Pacific Coast standard, NST American Standard, NPSH American Standard, Iron Pipe Straight Thread, etc. etc. etc. Ask your local FD what size threads your hydrants use. May as well ask what hose threads they use as well (if they even know)!


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> No one want to riot with someone that smells worse than the South end of a Northbound skunk. Apparently synthetic skunk oil can causing vomiting as fast as ipecac. I considered buying a few hundred rounds of his prototypes for anti-riot use, but decided I would rather just use rubber bullets.


This could turn out to be a repeat of how chemical warfare played out in WWI. One side launches the chemical weapon and then the wind brings the toxic cloud back over their own trenches.

Imagine if the rioters had a catapult and launched their stinking comrades smack dab into the middle of the police lines. Just imagine that. Just imagine that the rioters were from the circus and all were trained to be shot out of a cannon. Imagine that. Every body you hit with the skunk juice gets shot back at you.

The real question though is the effective range of the smell. If the police are half a mile away then they're probably safe from the effects, but how powerful is the smell if they're only 50 feet away?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Sentry, I would love to get some of your friends skunk balls. I would rather live next door to a fireworks factory than his shop though. An industrial accident at the first would be over quickly.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Thread sizes vary all over the place.
> There's even Chicago FD standard, NYFD standard, Pacific Coast standard, NST American Standard, NPSH American Standard, Iron Pipe Straight Thread, etc. etc. etc. Ask your local FD what size threads your hydrants use. May as well ask what hose threads they use as well (if they even know)!


Are there any markings you could look for on the hydrant itself that would tell you what size? Asking in this town would be like putting up a giant red flag, and would be inviting questions I don't want to answer...


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Ezmerelda said:


> Are there any markings you could look for on the hydrant itself that would tell you what size? Asking in this town would be like putting up a giant red flag, and would be inviting questions I don't want to answer...


If you can get a cap off, measure the diameter and pitch of the threads (per inch) for a very good start!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Ezmerelda said:


> ...Asking in this town would be like putting up a giant red flag, and would be inviting questions I don't want to answer...


Ask your local Fire Department if they any old hose they will sell you? Old fire hose works great for a trash pump discharge hose...


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> Ask your local Fire Department if they any old hose they will sell you? Old fire hose works great for a trash pump discharge hose...


I'll bet most FD's just toss it if it isn't usable anymore. Hose is a "consumable".

If you are lucky, it might turn up at a city auction.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> I'll bet most FD's just toss it if it isn't usable anymore. Hose is a "consumable".
> 
> If you are lucky, it might turn up at a city auction.


True

If you offer to buy some " donation" you'll get a good hose and in return know what type of hydrant threads.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

readytogo said:


> Again local news media will be your best source of info ,stay tune to your neighborhood problems, stay indoors ,call your local law enforcement for info, have supplies on hand, because no vest ,weapon, ammo will keep you safe in a civil disturbance or combat zone; home with the family will.


You mean those Asians that held off the LA rioters with their AKs did it wrong? Probably a good thing no one told them that as they are about the only people who did not get their business burned to the ground.

IMO experience Cowards Run In Packs (CRIPS) give a few of a dirt nap and the rest run like little girls. ANY mob ever tries to harm you and yours justifies ending their existence so give em what they deserve.


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