# Bkacksmith basics



## NCyouthsurvivalist (Apr 4, 2012)

I am new to the metalworking field, and I'd love any basic info y'all have, thanks so much!!!!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

There is an excellent book by Charles McRaven that covers most of what you would need to know, Blacksmithing is a very indepth "hobby"


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## Hubie1110 (Mar 18, 2012)

As far as what NC? I'm a machinist so I could tell you a little of what i know if you'd like, just gotta let me know what.


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## NCyouthsurvivalist (Apr 4, 2012)

I'd like to be able to make stuff like nails and pullies and hinges, and do repair work and all sorts of other stuff, my mom doesn't like theidea of me using fire ( I don't know why!!) so I'd like to learn alternate ways of working with metal if they ecxist!


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## shadowrider (Mar 13, 2010)

I second the Mcraven book.
You might also like http://www.iforgeiron.com/


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

NCyouthsurvivalist said:


> I'd like to be able to make stuff like nails and pullies and hinges, and do repair work and all sorts of other stuff, my mom doesn't like theidea of me using fire ( I don't know why!!) so I'd like to learn alternate ways of working with metal if they ecxist!


Haha, your mother probably has nightmare visions of you burning the house down. 
If you are looking to forge steel, you will need a high-level heat source in order to soften the metal enough to be worked. Their are forges commercially available that use gas to feed burners as opposed to burning coal, which would be a little easier to control, but they are not cheap.


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## NCyouthsurvivalist (Apr 4, 2012)

Well, I've only burnt down the barn once!!  lol


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Water DESTROYS high carbon steels like leaf spring and mill files.

you can make a nice press out of a 10 ton jack and 1/4" tube stock.

When in doubt, use oil.

Be sure everyone knows you're a black smith and not a pot head when you go in public with a holed shirt.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

NCyouthsurvivalist said:


> Well, I've only burnt down the barn once!!  lol


You could buy a water jet machine...or use the money to build a new barn lol.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Have you tried cold and semi-cold forging? if you want I'll give you my blueprints but you'll have to find your own log truck back springs.

Did you know that a table saw can be fitted with an abrasive metal cutting blade like a skill saw and used to make unreal precision cuts on steel up to 1/4" thick?


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## mimsi (May 5, 2012)

Magus said:


> Be sure everyone knows you're a black smith and not a pot head when you go in public with a holed shirt.


Haha, or he could be a "holy" man!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

LMAO or arrested around here.


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## mpguy18 (Sep 7, 2011)

Magus said:


> Have you tried cold and semi-cold forging? if you want I'll give you my blueprints but you'll have to find your own log truck back springs.
> 
> Did you know that a table saw can be fitted with an abrasive metal cutting blade like a skill saw and used to make unreal precision cuts on steel up to 1/4" thick?


Magus, would you please expound on this. Am also new to metal work and not familiar with using a table saw attachment for cutting. Thanks.


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## Riverdale (Oct 31, 2009)

This site 
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
Has the best books on a LOT of stuff. Not expensive, either.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

Mr Magus has been using a table saw. I have used this also. I used the skil saw size abrasive wheels. They have the same arbor size as the table saw. Plus, you take a 10" table saw and put a 7 1/4" blade on it, and you up the power quite a bit. Plus, you can keep adjusting the blade up while it wears out. I did take a skil saw and used an abrasive blade to split a leaf spring in half lengthwise, a little bouncy and hard to keep straight. That is how I came up with the table saw idea. I used to be a carpenter and have four table saws around here, so if I blowed one up, no big loss. Magus is right, you can cut it like a steel shop.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

*bows* better than I could explain it.

you have a drip cooler? I made mine out of a juice can and a brass t valve.


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## brucehylton (Nov 6, 2010)

I use a carbide steel cutting blade from HD for about $45. Up to 1/4 inch it is faster than a torch and cleaner, but does throw hot metal, so wear long sleeves, gloves and a full face shield. For short cuts the double cut saws work up to 3/4 inch exceptionally well. They do however become junk if you try to use them for long cuts or continuously.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I just use the fiber blades, it they bind, they shatter.the steel ones can sling a sharp piece right through you!


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

The best tip I ever heard was to practice your blacksmithing on modelling clay. Hot iron and steel is 'plastic', meaning it will squash and smash into other shapes without cracking. So is the modelling clay, and you won't have to worry about it cooling off too much while you practice on the clay. Clay behaves exactly like hot steel, except for being a lot softer and requiring softer hammer blows. 

Hot steel cools fast, especially when you put it on a cold anvil, so your when it comes out of the forge glowing bright red to orange, your hammer blows have to be rapid and purposeful before it cools too much. Hammering cold steel can cause it to crack. The thinking has to be done ahead of heating the metal to save working time. You can reheat steel, but every time you do, some of the surface is oxidized, so better to get the job done is as few heats as possible. Practice helps with that. 

Using clay will help you learn the uses of the various types of blacksmith hammers and other tools, and see the results without the time pressure of having hot steel to work in the next 15 seconds! 

The oil-based modelling, or floral clay (the green stuff) doesn't dry out so it is the best choice. It will warm up and get very soft and sticky after repeated hammering, so keep a spare piece somewhere cool, like in a bucket of cold water.


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## cajunmeadows (Oct 21, 2011)

Magus said:


> Water DESTROYS high carbon steels like leaf spring and mill files.
> 
> you can make a nice press out of a 10 ton jack and 1/4" tube stock.
> 
> ...


Made a couple of knives heattreated a few items. I have always used oil. Can get it cheap a good heavy oit will work I used about 4 gal.in a 5 gal bucket tends not to flare are catch fire the more oil you use. Put a lid on it and will last a long time.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Some tool steels are intended to be water quenched. 
http://buffaloprecision.com/data_sheets/DSW1TSbpp.pdf

High carbon steels may be oil quenched, but will not develop full hardness due to the slower cooling in oil. That leads to a somewhat coarser (tougher) grain structure after tempering, but that may be desirable, depending on the application. If using water to quench, it should be room temperature or somewhat above, and flat work should be plunged in the water edgewise to reduce warpage.

Most heat treating problems with high carbon steels are due to improper tempering. Especially on thick sections, failing to soak the steel at the draw temperature long enough for the core to reach the desired temperature can result in a harder core. A common household cooking range oven has the temperature capability to properly soak small tools at draw temperature, which produces more consistently accurate draw temperatures than the surface color method of judging temperature used by most blacksmiths, since it is only a surface indicator.

The above link is a tech sheet on W1 tool steel, which is close enough to use for most blacksmith work using file steel (higher carbon content in the files, from 1.00 to 1.100 or more).

Wrapping your work in stainless steel foil (with a small piece of paper in the foil package to use up whatever oxygen remains inside it) while heating to hardening temperature will reduce surface decarburization and surface heat checks. Tear off the foil before quenching, then quench immediately. For the blacksmith, laying flat work between a pair of heavier scrap pieces for heating with go a long ways to reducing surface decarb. Various fluxes and even common soap, applied as a paste to the work before heating helps reduce surface decarb and oxidation. (Scaling.)

Good toolmaking practice when hardening tool steels allows a certain amount of excess material for finish grinding which will eliminate most surface decarb and heat checks.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

W-1 and W2 do a primitive like me no good, if they don't heat or cool evenly they can warp or shatter.if I had an oven instead of a torch I'd probably love them.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Hmm. Make a box out of 6 bricks maybe? I've done that with a weed burner torch and came out pretty good on small items, like knives and small round parts like a cherry for a bullet mold. Just heating on a heavier flat bar by conduction does a pretty good job in a coal forge. With a torch, anything to spread the flame helps. Yeah, it does take more gas to get the job done, though.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I'll stick with 0-1 its what I do best. 

Wouldn't mind trying D-2 again though, I have a better set up now.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

NCyouthsurvivalist said:


> I am new to the metalworking field, and I'd love any basic info y'all have, thanks so much!!!!


How about apprenticing yourself to an old time blacksmith? They need some one to crank the air pump and feed coal to the forge. You will learn alot just watching and eventually get a chance to work on the anvil yourself.

We have a blacksmith in my civil war reenacting unit and I have learned alot by doing just what I mentioned above. Sail


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

I'm thinking of taking the blacksmithing class offered at our "Farm Museum" every now and again. Will be looking at it very soon.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Make you a valuable man after the lights go out!


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

Got to watch using motor oil for quenching. It might not cool fast enough for some steels. I use veggie oil for my work and have had no issues. I use 5160, O1, and various 10xx for knives.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Magus said:


> Have you tried cold and semi-cold forging? if you want I'll give you my blueprints but you'll have to find your own log truck back springs.
> 
> Did you know that a table saw can be fitted with an abrasive metal cutting blade like a skill saw and used to make unreal precision cuts on steel up to 1/4" thick?


No...I didn't,

Cough, but now I do, and of course knowing is half the battle.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Magus said:


> I'll stick with 0-1 its what I do best.
> 
> Wouldn't mind trying D-2 again though, I have a better set up now.


I love my D2 steel, Magus any chance I could talk to you about making me one.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

deetheivy said:


> I love my D2 steel, Magus any chance I could talk to you about making me one.


PM me. 
Or ask here, all good.


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