# Friends I "NEED"



## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Here is a partial list of skill sets that would be needed to survive for any long period of time after a real SHTF event.

This is not a Machiavelian mindset, but a practical list of of what is needed in a group. Trust, honesty, work ethic, stable emotional state etc., are important, but considered "solid" for this discussion.

Medical (Nurse, PA, or DOC). EMT-B at the least.

Chemist / Science. Must know how to make basic items (aspirin etc.)

Leather craft. Shoe/boot, saddle repair

Gunsmith.

Farm/agro/mastergardener

Dentist

Plumber

Electrician.

Mechanic (diesel and gas engines)

As I look at my close group and even the extended group that may consolidate, I notice many insurance, accounting, secretary, clerical folks. That makes me nervous. 

Thoughts?


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I know many secretaries, accounting, and insurance types that are better prepared than electricians, plumbers, and mechanics. Many people on the list have genuine life skills like canning and gardening that will be necessary to survive. I figure I can barter for engine repair if I need it. If there isn't any gasoline, I'm not going to need an engine.


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

I agree that those folks may be preparing and may do well in situations, but I am talking hard skill sets.

I bring operational and tactical planning, operations, and training. I also have extensive field craft. But, I cannot easily set up a water distro piping system or rebuild a transmission.

I look at some of my "soft skill" friends and they bring even less to the initial "team". 

Gardening, canning, agreed!!!!!! All great individual skills. :congrat:


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

I don't know if you've made these as a subset skill of the included members, but how about a butcher, soldier (or someone with security), carpenter, mechanical engineer and possibly a teacher (or at least a decent library to teach the young).


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

Halfway said:


> Here is a partial list of skill sets that would be needed to survive for any long period of time after a real SHTF event.
> 
> This is not a Machiavelian mindset, but a practical list of of what is needed in a group. Trust, honesty, work ethic, stable emotional state etc., are important, but considered "solid" for this discussion.
> 
> ...


I think you will find more folks are more knowledgeable that you think.

For me, food production, shelter building/maintence and self defense are on top of the list.

Jimmy


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## power (May 7, 2011)

Seems like when you depend on a certain person for specials skills you are making a mistake. Several people with plain common sense, life experiences, an ability to learn on their feet, and a basic understanding of different skills would be much more valuable. Specializing might be a good thing now but when SHTF it might not be so sought after. A jack of all trades might be the answer.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

power said:


> Seems like when you depend on a certain person for specials skills you are making a mistake. Several people with plain common sense, life experiences, an ability to learn on their feet, and a basic understanding of different skills would be much more valuable. Specializing might be a good thing now but when SHTF it might not be so sought after. A jack of all trades might be the answer.


Well said.

Jimmy


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

power said:


> Specializing might be a good thing now but when SHTF it might not be so sought after. A jack of all trades might be the answer.


I agree with your basic premise, however I remember that the entire saying is: "Jack of all trades, *Master of none*!"


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## power (May 7, 2011)

tortminder said:


> I agree with your basic premise, however I remember that the entire saying is: "Jack of all trades, *Master of none*!"


It isn't necessary to be a master at any of the trades. If you are a master of a trade we are back to the original post. Masters of any trade are not necessary and can be a drain on the rest. A basic knowledge of many trades is very valuable. 
What happens to the group who has all masters of different trades when they loose some of the masters?


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

One other fault, I see, with your list... Let's say you have a Doctor. What happens if the Doctor gets ill or injured? Or killed/dies? So, now you need redundancies in each of the skills you want.

I see a farmer/master gardener... however unless it's a relatively small garden you're going to need lots more workers to work the land or lots of equipment which then begs the need for mechanics. Maybe metal workers/black smiths to fashion parts that you can't just go buy anymore. What about fuel? Someone who knows how to do biodiesel plus all the equipment to do it, etc.

Keeping this reasoning up and you eventually have a small town of skilled individuals. But, if they're focusing on their skill then you need a secondary work force for all the mundane and grunt work. And on and on.

The jack of all trades approach might be better. Someone who can pickup skills as necessary and is comfortable finding solutions and fixing things even though they may not be a specialist. Getting together a decent library with a number of books on each topic would allow almost anyone to at least get a basic working knowlege of the subject matter. While I may never need to extract a tooth, having a "Where there is no Dentist" and it's partner "Where there is no Doctor" would at least have a record of how to go about doing it.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

When Jamestown was founded, the white collar types that were there did not want to do and were not able to perform physical labor. I would rather have preppers with common sense, weapons, and physical ability than a doctor, a mechanic, and a dentist sitting around my house while I bust my butt keeping the farm going.


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

tortminder said:


> I agree with your basic premise, however I remember that the entire saying is: "Jack of all trades, *Master of none*!"


Why not master of them all? Remember, a specialist is someone who learns more and more about less and less until he knows everything about nothing. 

I'd rather have someone who is familiar with a variety of trades than someone who is confined to one narrow field (Brain surgery excluded! ) Some of our best and most innovative inventors had their hands in a variety of interests and were able to integrate previously learned skills into new discoveries. The Wright brothers fixed bicycles and did some engine work...then they they made airplanes. Bell was a teacher of the deaf and used his electrical knowledge to try to help the deaf communicate. He failed. His failure was called the telephone. :2thumb:

And let's not forget the value of cross-training members of a group in the skills that other members of the group have mastered. Everyone should have at least a working knowledge of all aspects of an operation. I worked in a burglar alarm operations center that was set up like this. One guy literally stepped up and took over when the on-duty supervisor had a heart attack (he survived). Everyone on my shift could handle any position from supervisory to computer operator, including some minor repair functions, if the system crashed. The standard joke was: "Who is going to be the dummy in charge tonight?"


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

A lot of the skills listed can be learned to some degree by yourself or others now. First aid skills or simple carpentry skills for instance. I don't have a degree in anything other than business, but I do have first aid training, canning and dehydrating skills, gardening skills, I have raised cattle, hogs, chickens and rabbits. I can change a tire and oil in a vehicle. I have helped to build several houses and roofed them. I'm sure I am forgetting something, but IMHO I would be useful.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

The ideal situation would be to have some ole country boys/girls who also do something useful as a profession. Expertise & general know-how combined! "Jack of all trades master of none" is not always the case. Hubby was raised hunting, fishing, prepping his own meat, working on engines, doing electrical & plumbing, welding fences, & whatever else needed to be done. He is a master at building houses & anything out of wood. I'm a nurse but I can can, dehydrate, garden, sew, crochet, cook, shoot, homeschool, tend animals, etc. I think that's probably the case with many people, 'cept maybe them folks that's had all usefulness bred out of them.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I would describe myself as a *Jack of all trades, master of some* with my skill-set being way beyond what my current job-title shows. I hunt-n-fish and know how to butcher, cook and preserve the food. I also know how to cut and form and weld steel (my job-title is metal-fabrication-designer). I also have mechanic-skills - swapping engines, transmissions, rebuilding axles, brakes, etc. With my hunting skills comes my general outdoor skills (stealth hiking, cross-country-ski and snow-shoe and I have my wilderness first-aid certificates). I can drive just about anything with wheels (bus, dump-truck, 18-wheeler, off-road Jeep and motorbike) and I am no stranger to paddling a canoe (lake, river and mild white-water).

Just because some of your friend's work skill-sets are not suitable for a prepper, it does not automatically mean that their life skill-sets are to be discounted.


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

I'd like to ask... Would a pharmacist be of any use? Not a pharm tech, but one that studied in college and is liscensed.


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

Well, if you're only friends with these people because what they can DO for YOU, then I pity you and them. Thats a pathetic way to have friends.
I've noticed this sort of mind set in everyday life and a very very large number of people. I think thats just about the most ignorant thing to do to someone is to use them for what they can do for you and not who they actually are.I honestly do not remember people being this narcissistic before the late 80's. thats when I first noticed it in people. just about that time people would ask you: " What do you do for a living". they didn't care that you may have fed the homeless, or was a Sunday school teacher at your church. Sickening and pathetic

To me, a frined is friend. Not a "tool" that I can use.

I figure me and my friends can figure it all out post shtf. We've got each other's backs and not just because what we can "do" for each other but because of true friendship and caring about each other.

this sort of talk makes me sick. seriously, you people who think like this should one day find yourself all alone and people who you used gone from your life.
I suggest you pray for forgivness and ask Him to lead you the right way and show you the right way to BE a friend and to HAVE a friend.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I think that what Halfway was getting to was friends that have certain skills that compliment skill-sets that you currently have. While I have lots of skills in many things, I can't do everything - there are not enough hours in a year to keep up with my current projects, so, I need to have others with skill-sets that compliment my own to either give me guidance or help or to just take over.

I can fix a computer - any computer. My buddy can fix a car, any car. He can't fix a computer and I can hack-n-bash my way to a good running car. I can weld for him and he can feed me from his smoker. Our skill-sets compliment each others - we are great friends (hunting and off-roading, butchering, camping, etc) otherwise.

I don't believe that Halfway meant to get rid of friends that are "useless" in a SHTF situation, just that he (I think Halfway is a he) is looking for certain natural skill-sets that will make life easier.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

A medium size mule is a good farm hand,don't eat much.A donkeys even better if foods scarce,he can live off a lot less food and no need for grains.A horse,well you know what they say about horses and eating..

Dr.s and dentist are use to living well,they may not be mentally able to stand the survival lifestyle.


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## GoldenBoys (Oct 8, 2010)

Speaking for myself, I was lucky in that I was raised on a small farm by a family that believed in doing everything ourselves. I'm a mechinic by trade, but have farmed, gardened, canned, butchered, done plumbing, electrical, carpentry, construction and operated heavy equipment as well as hunting and fishing. I may not be a master at many of these, but I don't hire anybody to do these things and have made a living from many of them.


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

I'm trying to train for everything. I became a certified nursing assistant at 16 and I'm in pharmacy school currently as well as trying to get my degree in phlebotomy.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

*let's see.....*

our skill sets 
for dh paramedic, nurse, carpenter, plumber, electrician, electronic engineer, welder.
for me sewing, weaving, canning, cooking, baking, electrician, artist, gardener, needlework, carpenter, herbal medicine. there some others, but these are the one we have earned a living at. Any one want to come to my place and add to the skill list?:sssh: lol I don't mean to sound like bragging but both of us like to learn new things rather than watch judge judy or doc phil.


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## mamakat (May 16, 2011)

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone,
comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
-- Robert A. Heinlein


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## Davo45 (Apr 29, 2011)

The U.S. Army Special forces have a proven method, they cross train skills. No one individual team member is the only one with a given skill, i.e. a medic may be cross trained in admin, and heavy weapons specialist may be cross trained in communications, etc. The loss of any one team member won't stop the rest of the team from completing its mission.

As others have said, many of these skills may be learned by team members now.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

Your post brought back the memories I have of being in a "group". Hubby frequents a LOT of these types of boards and was hit up by some fella who wanted to meet us and see if we would be interested in joining his group.

So we met him ... he seemed nice enough ... a bit of a braggart but nobody's perfect, so we start going out to the farm he shares with another couple.

Jesus Mary Mother of God what a bunch of nutcases ...  ... and lazy to boot ... the owner of the farm was always wanting to have "work days" at his place because he just never seem to have enough time to get anything done.

Now ... I was a paralegal for 20 some-odd years ... one of those "clerical" types that nobody thinks can do anything but push paper. BUT I was raised on a farm by a veterinarian father, an RN mother and a grandfather who was a self-taught carpenter and woodworker and owned his own dairy so I'm no slouch. I have also spend an inordinate amount of time perfecting my shot placement since marrying my old JBT.  However, I am also the kind of person who just gets down to business ... no need to brag or spend a lot of time tooting my own horn when there is work to be done.

After spending several "work days" at these folks farm butchering chickens, planting trees for an orchard, tearing out dead trees and cutting and splitting the wood for them, and working in the garden and helping can quite a bit of stuff this fella has the gall to ask me just exactly what would I bring to the table if I ever needed to come to him for living arrangements. 

Did a little checking (you know those clerical types) and I'll be damned if the jerk didn't have a criminal record ... for SEX OFFENSES!! 

So ... before you go discounting those folks because they "only having clerical skills" you might think twice. Anybody can work, and anybody can learn.

And no, we are not members of that group anymore ... and we WON'T be members of any group save the one our neighborhood might naturally form in an "event".

The lesson I learned is that you are better served with the friends closest to you -- even if they don't prep. While they might not have the skills you think are necessary, they have a common interest with you (proximity) and are decent, hard-working people in their own right. Besides, I suspect that there are plenty of people out there like me ... they have skills you might not expect them to have. Those skills just don't happen to be obvious to you because you don't know them as well as you think you do.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*You might be*



mamakat said:


> "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone,
> comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently and die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."
> -- Robert A. Heinlein


You might be the worlds most interesting man ! :congrat:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*You definatly*



BadgeBunny said:


> Your post brought back the memories I have of being in a "group". Hubby frequents a LOT of these types of boards and was hit up by some fella who wanted to meet us and see if we would be interested in joining his group.
> 
> So we met him ... he seemed nice enough ... a bit of a braggart but nobody's perfect, so we start going out to the farm he shares with another couple.
> 
> ...


You definatly don't want a sex offender taking care of the chickens ! :2thumb:


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

BillM said:


> You definatly don't want a sex offender taking care of the chickens ! :2thumb:


Or the sheep!!  My hubby said that instead of putting the ***hole in his place and leaving (which is what I did) I should have at least found out what he needed me to "bring to the table" ... :tmi:eep:


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Sorry, did not mean in any way to offend "clerical folks". I did not mean they were without or low on "value". In a SHTF scenario, especially one of mid term duration, hard skills (trades) may be needed earlier on.

I re-read my original post several times and I am not sure how that was misinterpreted. But again, sorry.

I also posed the question as a thought process as to how groups are formed after chaos. Thanks for the responses. Individual skills are very important. I would say almost as important as having the right supplies on hand. Skills can be traded as easily as beans and in some cases, more valuable.

Take a look at the movie Defiance Defiance (2008) - IMDb

Also, I clearly stated up front that this was not meant to be Machiavelian, so any comments on that need to be re-thought. My friends are because of who they are, not what they are. But as I said, those are a "given".

I agree with Heinlein on the skill sets needed. He was a great author and a warrior-minded, common-sense man.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

Halfway said:


> Sorry, did not mean in any way to offend "clerical folks". I did not mean they were without or low on "value".
> 
> I re-read my original post several times and I am not sure how that was misinterpreted. But again, sorry.


LOL ... No offense was taken. I'm too old to be offended by some guy on the internet ...


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

Halfway said:


> Sorry, did not mean in any way to offend "clerical folks". I did not mean they were without or low on "value". In a SHTF scenario, especially one of mid term duration, hard skills (trades) may be needed earlier on.
> 
> I re-read my original post several times and I am not sure how that was misinterpreted. But again, sorry.
> 
> ...


I think your premise is a good one to a point. I understand where you come as I have friends that are limited in skills.

I guess what I don't get is, why are we so specialized? The one thing I taught my kids as they were growing up was how to work. I know they cussed me for it back then, but I'd bet my life on them now. They all know how to work and work hard and not scared of it. Now in their daily life they are somewhat specialized, but put any of them off the bus anywhere and they are working in 2 days if there is a job available. That is a true value.

We as a people need to work at that premise, rather than work at getting so good at one thing and no back up. I see it all the time. Those folks will be left behind quickly. Not saying everyone is that way, but the workplace has made it so much more prevalent.

Now does that fill your needs? Nope. But it's NEVER too late to get started...

Just saying....all IMHO

Jimmy


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

*Generalists vs Specialists*

I believe that as we allowed our society to become more complicated people realized that there was no way that they could be facile in every aspect of living. It is a "natural" part of societal evolution. I might be good at preserving food and making ale, but I don't do very well swinging a hammer. My buddy Fred burns water when he tries to cook but can build a house with scrap wood and a blunt rock. We trade skills and each has a good outcome.

What I believe has been lost in this thread is that there is a difference between a group of social friends and a Mutual Assistance Group. At least in the case of the M.A.G. I belong to, folks were invited based upon what skill set they brought to the table.

It's not Machiavellian to consider what assets are required for the enhanced probability of group survival. In a way, it is going back to when individual tribes made alliances which became the basis of what we call society.

It is human nature to gravitate toward those of a similar mindset and life values. Unions, guilds, fraternities and even nation-states are built on the premise of shared social mores. Consideration of practical skills brought to the group is just one more consideration, IMO.

While it is just common sense to learn as many skills as possible to enhance your probability of survival, it is also common sense to concentrate on doing what you do best as a practical skill and barter or trade for those things that you don't do as well. I too, consider myself as a Jack of all trades, but I am also a Master of a few of them. Those skills in which I excel are what makes me of value to the group.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Jimmy24 said:


> The one thing I taught my kids as they were growing up was how to work. I know they cussed me for it back then, but I'd bet my life on them now. They all know how to work and work hard and not scared of it. Jimmy


I think that the ability to WORK HARD is what is going to be the undoing of most people. People no longer know what it is like to put in a full day's work and to be genuinely bone weary at the end of the day. In a survival situation, I hope to be surrounded by people who know how to work hard.


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Thanks Tort, and all others.

I know many folks that are very driven in their career fields and their comittment leads to many hours of work and study and the spare time is devoted to kids and family. They have little time to learn many handyman type skills and they pay other's to have those tasks completed.

Not everyone has the ability or desire to learn multiple skills sets. This is not because they are lazy or misguided, but their priorities and demands on them are different.

As I said, I have extensive operational, planning, training, fieldcraft and warfighting experience, but I do not know plumbing, electician skills, or chemistry. I need folks to repair boots, install an additional water outlet, wire a garage etc. I learn as many skills as I can over time, but education, work, family, and other demands don't allow everyone to be a Davinci. Even the die-hard workaholics among us. 

HAM operation. I really need to learn some basic broadcasting!


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Halfway said:


> HAM operation. I really need to learn some basic broadcasting!


If your county has any kind of disaster preparedness coordinator, they might be able to point in the direction of free or discounted classes. My son got his Ham license last year through our local police department. They offered the classes as part of their hurricane preparations. After Hurricane Ike, Ham operators were very helpful.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

You forgot me! Average Joe with 200,000 heirloom seeds including tobacco seeds, a year's supply of food, several guns with ammo, and common sense!

_"A rooster crows only when it sees the light. Put him in the dark and he'll never crow. I have seen the light and I'm crowing." _


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

RevWC said:


> You forgot me! Average Joe with 200,000 heirloom seeds including tobacco seeds, a year's supply of food, several guns with ammo, and common sense!
> 
> _"A rooster crows only when it sees the light. Put him in the dark and he'll never crow. I have seen the light and I'm crowing." _


Forgotten?

Hell no!

Included! :congrat:


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

People with clerical skills have a place in shtf situations as well, but it all depends on your perspective. This is even more true if they are used to a fast-paced environment where they learn to prioritize and multitask. The ability to organize and catalog things is of critical importance when you are trying to harvest seeds from your crop to use for the following year. 

Another example would be along the lines of what others have said about cross training people. If you had someone in your group that became ill, a person with clerical skills could be trained to take their vitals and record their progress. A doctor or nurse can do that too but if they have skills in other areas and are needed elsewhere, it wouldn't make sense to keep them there doing a task that could be done by someone with clerical skills. There is an administrative aspect of treating illnesses and injuries and having someone that can record details such as medications and treatments administered, vital signs, etc., is important. For a small injury you might not have to worry about all of that. For a serious injury, it could mean the difference between life and death.


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

People that don't know me look and say "useless kid, only knows how to play games, and sleep". 

I know how to do both of those things, but guarantee I know more about "the outdoors" than most of them. I am master of few, but very capable in all.

I just wonder if the adult view of adolescents will help or hurt me in the end. Only time will tell. (Young by experiance, adult by law.)


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Elinor0987 said:


> People with clerical skills have a place in shtf situations as well, but it all depends on your perspective.... The ability to organize and catalog things is of critical importance when you are trying to harvest seeds from your crop to use for the following year.
> 
> ...If you had someone in your group that became ill, a person with clerical skills could be trained to take their vitals and record their progress...


I wanted to add agreement on this. While you might not want an "army" of office workers (assuming that's their main skill), a good record keeper can handle a lot of the mundane tasks. Basic accounting (how much gold/silver/barter goods we got left), going rates for trade/barter, seed/tool/fuel/food/ammo inventory, security shifts, medical records, etc. A lot of that may need to be recorded and most likely all by hand. A truly organized person good a record keeping could be quite valuable in this aspect. Granted this probably is not the first skills you're looking for, but still something to consider.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

kejmack said:


> If your county has any kind of disaster preparedness coordinator, they might be able to point in the direction of free or discounted classes.


Look into "CERT". Citizens Emergency Response Training (or Team).

Our community offered it for free. Covers a nice variety of topics, all very useful. IMHO it's a great starting point for someone just getting into the preparedness mindset.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

I agree with most others here that there is much more than just 'skill set' when looking at someone to include in your group. Somebody that does not have any skills, but that is willing to learn and willing to work hard is welcome anytime. 

I will add that I would never allow anybody to join me who would be unwilling to pull the trigger should the need arise for our defense.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

worldengineer said:


> People that don't know me look and say "useless kid, only knows how to play games, and sleep".
> 
> I know how to do both of those things, but guarantee I know more about "the outdoors" than most of them. I am master of few, but very capable in all.
> 
> I just wonder if the adult view of adolescents will help or hurt me in the end. Only time will tell. *(Young by experiance, adult by law.)*


We've all been there!

It's funny ... at my age I wonder if people will look at me (as some have already) and think I'm gonna be a drag instead of an asset ... I worked circles around kids half my age at the gun range doing some pretty physical, pretty nasty work ... I'm not as strong as I used to be but I am still every bit as stubborn and where there's a will, there's a way! 

On top of all that I have always gotten along better with kids than I have people my own age ... lots of folks my age are too judgmental, too cranky, too prone to not look outside the box for answers for my tastes ...

The "Old Fuddy-Duddy Group" that hangs out here seem like a good lot though!  :beercheer:


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Ingenuity, drive, focus, and high energy go along way. Youthful strength and ability to take risk is a bonus.


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## Wolf1066 (Jan 1, 2010)

I'm of the Jack of All Trades, Master of Some persuasion, as are most of my friends - from a variety of different paid professions with a variety of hobbies that give us a wide skill base.

Anyone can do basic labour such as harvesting and anyone can learn new skills.

When it boils down to it, in a SHTF situation, people will do what they have to to survive.


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

It is enlightening and somewhat concerning when you really extend the SHTF event into longer time periods and expose even more potential problems. We take for granted many things we can do without, but we do live in an era where many skills are required to achieve even the most basic needs.

These "needs" may not be required for every individual, but expand those to a large(r) group and notice how the needs increase. 30 people's waste disposal requirements for example. 5 people of 20 getting the flu. 10 of the group of 20 getting food poisoning effectively taking them out of use for 48 hours. etc.

Long term logistics considerations prompts thoughts of hard skills and those who possess them.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

You also have to consider that some people would want to take control.This is where it would get sticky with us.Most people want control,but few know what to do with it once they get it.

Also some of the best people have relatives who are very dangerous.So you won't be just dealign with whoever you invite in but their relatives also.Unless their relatives live hundreds of miles away.


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Meerkat said:


> *Also some of the best people have relatives who are very dangerous.So you won't be just dealign with whoever you invite in but their relatives also.*


..................


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## Momturtle (Nov 2, 2009)

Have been following this thread with interest. Since I expect that gasoline and such will not be around for using motor driven machinery in the event of a major breakdown, I feel an inventive/creative individual with mechanical skills might be more valuable than an actual diesel or gas mechanic. A lot of mechanics these days rely more on computer diagnostics than actual mechanical aptitude - pretty useless without the computers. 

Doctors/Nurses and EMT's are great if they can do more than that. Also a field heavily dependant on what may be obsolete technology in the practice of their craft. Find yourself a trained herbalist who can grow and process their own product, as well as tend injuries and illnesses -- they can train others and that is something that will not run out over time. Wilderness first responders are handy as well.

Chemists/Scientists - Aspirin is made from salacylic acid which is found in Willow Bark. Ah ha! 

Leather workers - better get some folks that can manufacture the leather as well. Not too hard but for heavy shoe leather, it can be a real mess, and stinky to boot. And takes a lot of oak bark or someother "tan bark" so you need those timberworkers to supply that, and the huge vats to process it in. Might be a good specialty product for trade purposes

Gunsmith - good one, you also need a metal smith to fabricate any parts that may need replacing, with accompanying tools - sometimes different ones for different manufacturers.

Farm/Agro Master -- The best of the lot, but this is not something that can just be done on the spur of the moment, soil must be prepared (a project that can take many years) before the food will grow adequately to support anything. The time to begin setting up the garden/orchard/berry patches etc. is now, or several years ago. Is there water for the growing crops? How is is delivered? What kind of fertilizer do you have access to? The list just goes on and on.

Dentist - somebody needs to learn how to pull teeth! Without the backup technology, a dentist is a highly educated paperweight. The book "Where there is no Dentist" is a must read. Take care of your teeth, have the tools on hand, prepare for pain.

Plumber - a person with good mechanical aptitude and access to pipe and tools can do wonders - are you really going to have a whole lot of use for a specialist? Think of what you may be needing them for and plan accordingly - set up irregation? get water to the house from a spring? 

Electrician - since I don't expect to have electricity and am not spending the money on solar, wind, etc. Another specialist I dont' really need.

As a secretary who is very good at tanning leather (brain tan for moccasins etc), making soap, herbal doctoring (and growing and preparing herbs), emergency first aid, maintaining a huge garden and permaculture area, trapping in a variety of topography, shooting a squirrel through the head at 100 yards, setting up water systems and preserving the fruits of the garden and orchards for my family, shearing, spinning and weaving wool for fabrics, all without electricity and gasoline operated equipment of any kind (can be helpful thought can't it?), I have found that a hardworking and willing person who can be trained to learn other skills and will do what needs to be done no matter what and without a lot of supervision (they see what needs to be done and the do it), is much preferable to a specialist who may feel that hoeing a garden and digging holes, cleaning out a chicken coop and standing watch at night is not what he/she wants to do. There are so many mundane tasks that need to be done as well as all the heavy specialty things. Of course I have been doing this for a long long time.

Special skills are great, but being willing to work hard for the group, learn all you can and teach others what you can will be much more valuable in the long run. Perhaps you can meet with your group and discuss it and see if some either already have the skills and can teach them, or would be willing to learn them and share with the group. You might be surprised at what you find out.


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## Halfway (Nov 26, 2009)

Exceptional post _*Mom*_.

Thank you!

:beercheer:


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

I would really miss an optometrist and an oculist. Once your glasses are gone things can become REALLY difficult. Without my glasses, I see two of everything with the image from the left eye about 2" higher than the image from the right eye. :surrender:


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## Ridgerunner (Oct 27, 2008)

There are a lot of Skills the would be usefully to have.

People management Skills and leadership would be very important.

In a SHTF situation there will be people with a lot to do and a lot of people not knowing what to do.

Also you may have planned to have certain people in your group ahead of time but what if those people are not there, injured or killed.

I would say in a SHTF event to survey the people you are with for their skills as you may not know all of these people or any of them. Then Assign the people who do not know what to do, to those people who do. 
And have them train and assist them in the tasks that need to be done.

This will start building working community.

Being Completely Self sufficient is great but there is some thing to be said for "Safety in numbers"

Those that refuse to help out can go some where else.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> *I would really miss an optometrist *and an oculist. Once your glasses are gone things can become REALLY difficult. Without my glasses, I see two of everything with the image from the left eye about 2" higher than the image from the right eye. :surrender:


Yep. I really like being able to see what I am doing. :gaah:

And my massage therapist ... I would miss my massage therapist ...


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