# food buckets & water barrels



## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Hey folks,

I have a few questions about the specifics of these types of containers. As far as food storage buckets are concerned how do I tell whether the bucket is considered "food storage quality" or not? I am a professional paperhanger by trade and I routinely go through 5 gallon plastic buckets of paste. I am assuming that these are probably not suitable for food storage? Am I wrong? If I am how do I know what is suitable? What amI looking for?

On water barrels is there a preferred type? Are you filling them with tap water ( I have soft water in my area)? What should be used to treat the water to keep it safe and how much to treat a 55 gallon drum? How to you get water out of these barrels when you want to? From the top? Or is there a drain valve? Just trying to get an idea of how it all works. 

Thanks


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

I did some quick searching online about food grade buckets. From what I have read they are saying #2 food grade buckets are best. I looked at the bottom of my 5 gallon paste buckets. They have the #2 inside a triangle which has arrows around the lines in the triangle.

Am I good to go with these buckets?


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Opinions vary. Of course.

Some will say that it strictly has to be a food grade bucket. And has to be purchased new to know that. 

I am more of the line of thought that the bucket is only a hard shell for the mylar bag and that the bucket grade doesn't really matter.

I personally use buckets that used to have pharmaceutical grade salts in them. I am 99% sure they are food grade. But i use them with a mylar bag so it doesn't really matter.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

The buckets I buy are marked 'food safe' on the bucket its self.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Grimm said:


> The buckets I buy are marked 'food safe' on the bucket its self.


Where are they marked "food safe"? Is it on the bottom?

So then the #2 inside the triangle doesn't mean anything? or does it?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> Where are they marked "food safe"? Is it on the bottom?
> 
> So then the #2 inside the triangle doesn't mean anything? or does it?


A big 4x4 sticker label on the side of the bucket. Home Depot sells them. And the Gamma seal lids.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

I looked at the bottom of these paste buckets again. It says "NRC 90 Mil" Then "HDPE" and the #2 symbol inside the triangle of arrows.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Grimm said:


> A big 4x4 sticker label on the side of the bucket. Home Depot sells them. And the Gamma seal lids.


Home Depot sells them in the stores? Or is it online?


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Grimm said:


> A big 4x4 sticker label on the side of the bucket. Home Depot sells them. And the Gamma seal lids.


Do you suppose there is any difference besides that sticker?










http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...ct-2-_-100672960-_-202541442-_-N#.UST7TB2-pkg










http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...ct-2-_-202541442-_-202735752-_-N#.UST7gR2-pkg

Now I see it's the same picture. :scratch


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

hangman said:


> Home Depot sells them in the stores? Or is it online?


Online shipped free.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

The label will look like the one in the picture BUT WILL SAY FOOD SAFE


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> Do you suppose there is any difference besides that sticker?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like you with your canning paranoia I don't use buckets unless they say food safe or they are from the bakery down the street (I know they had food in them like buttercream so they are safe)


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> Home Depot sells them in the stores? Or is it online?


In the store by the painting supplies. You can check your local store's stock on the website before going.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Plastic is porous and will allow the passage of O2. It will also absorb the product that is stored in it. The infamous pickle bucket that you can't get the smell out of is a prime example. Who wants pickle flavored sugar? It is generally considered safe to use buckets that were originally used for food. It is generally considered unsafe to use buckets that contained chemicals as some of the chemical remains in the plastic and will leach out.

I have buckets that are not food grade and I have buckets that have had non food items in them. I always use mylar so that provides protection. While I have used buckets that have had non food stuff I them it is not a product that I would worry would make me sick. I would never use a paint bucket, I'm not sure what chemicals are in your paste.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Like you with your canning paranoia I don't use buckets unless they say food safe or they are from the bakery down the street (I know they had food in them like buttercream so they are safe)


That's funny.

But do you think there is a difference?

Hangman, if you are in the market for buckets you can't beat the deal in the link I posted to EE in one of your threads. I don't know if you saw it yet or not.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

hangman said:


> I looked at the bottom of these paste buckets again. It says "NRC 90 Mil" Then "HDPE" and the #2 symbol inside the triangle of arrows.


Are these buckets alright to use? I was going to get Mylar bags as well.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> That's funny.
> 
> But do you think there is a difference?
> 
> Hangman, if you are in the market for buckets you can't beat the deal in the link I posted to EE in one of your threads. I don't know if you saw it yet or not.


I'd still rather use something labeled for food use than the bucket that had paint or wallpaper paste in it. I never let my storage touch the bucket directly but still why take the chance.

And the best deal on buckets is to go to your local bakery and ask for their empty buckets before they throw them away. You'd need to get lids but the buckets are FREE.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

hangman said:


> Are these buckets alright to use? I was going to get Mylar bags as well.


Is the paste edible.

Probably not the best idea.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Plastic is porous and will allow the passage of O2. It will also absorb the product that is stored in it. The infamous pickle bucket that you can't get the smell out of is a prime example. Who wants pickle flavored sugar? It is generally considered safe to use buckets that were originally used for food. It is generally considered unsafe to use buckets that contained chemicals as some of the chemical remains in the plastic and will leach out.
> 
> I have buckets that are not food grade and I have buckets that have had non food items in them. I always use mylar so that provides protection. While I have used buckets that have had non food stuff I them it is not a product that I would worry would make me sick. I would never use a paint bucket, I'm not sure what chemicals are in your paste.


Most wallpaper paste is made from starches. In a pinch you could probably eat it! LOL


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> Are these buckets alright to use? I was going to get Mylar bags as well.


When in doubt don't use them.

Unless you can eat the paste and not get sick don't risk it. Even if you do use mylar.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Grimm said:


> I'd still rather use something labeled for food use than the bucket that had paint or wallpaper paste in it. I never let my storage touch the bucket directly but still why take the chance.


The buckets I question haven't had anything in them yet.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

hangman said:


> Most wallpaper paste is made from starches. In a pinch you could probably eat it! LOL


The buckets are probably fine then.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Chemical Name and Synonyms: Vinyl wallcovering adhesive
Chemical Family: Vegetable adhesive

This is what i found from the MSDS sheet by the manufacturer. It is just a brief overview. It goes into more depth but may be irrelevant.

Perhaps I'll try my bakery.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> That's funny.
> 
> But do you think there is a difference?
> 
> Hangman, if you are in the market for buckets you can't beat the deal in the link I posted to EE in one of your threads. I don't know if you saw it yet or not.


Thanks for the heads up. I missed it and have saved that link now


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## cedarguy (Nov 19, 2012)

As already posted the bakery is a good place to get em but dont forget the grocery store and even long term medical facilities (nursing homes), hospitals.
Almost all of my food grade buckets with lids came from a nursing home. The dietary director was happy to get rid of them and would even save them for me.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

*Went to the bakery*



cedarguy said:


> As already posted the bakery is a good place to get em but dont forget the grocery store and even long term medical facilities (nursing homes), hospitals.
> Almost all of my food grade buckets with lids came from a nursing home. The dietary director was happy to get rid of them and would even save them for me.


Just got back from my local bakery. Picked up 2 buckets without lids. I looked closely at them. They have a ink stamped print directly on the side of the bucket reading "fluid flex super cake shortening w/ micro emulsifier" describing what was inside the bucket. It DOES NOT SAY "food grade" or anything like that BUT IT WAS used for food materials.

On the bottom of the pail it has the #5 inside the triangle made of arrows. Besides that it has a clock type dial with an arrow pointing to the #8. The name ROPAK is visible (I guess the company which made the pail) then also the letters NRC.

From what I read online they said #2 grade buckets were ideal for food storage. My paste buckets are #2 grade. The bakery is #5 grade buckets. Can someone please explain what this all means in practical terms? I'm getting confused.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> Just got back from my local bakery. Picked up 2 buckets without lids. I looked closely at them. They have a ink stamped print directly on the side of the bucket reading "fluid flex super cake shortening w/ micro emulsifier" describing what was inside the bucket. It DOES NOT SAY "food grade" or anything like that BUT IT WAS used for food materials.
> 
> On the bottom of the pail it has the #5 inside the triangle made of arrows. Besides that it has a clock type dial with an arrow pointing to the #8. The name ROPAK is visible (I guess the company which made the pail) then also the letters NRC.
> 
> From what I read online they said #2 grade buckets were ideal for food storage. My paste buckets are #2 grade. The bakery is #5 grade buckets. Can someone please explain what this all means in practical terms? I'm getting confused.


I hate to put it on the goobermint but they regulate the materials manufacturers are allowed to come into contact with food products. The buckets from the bakery are packed at a plant. The mixture you said was in the buckets is a Crisco type product used to grease cake pans. The goobermint would not allow the packing plant to package this in non food grade buckets.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

But what do the #'s mean on the bottom of the buckets? Isn't that a guide or reference?

This is why I prefer to ask questions from those who have alreasdy been down this road before. I searched online and found on wikipedia that #2 grade buckets were best for storing foods. These buckets are #5

I want to get this right BEFORE


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Typo....before I start storing supplies in mylar bags and buckets. Thanks


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> But what do the #'s mean on the bottom of the buckets? Isn't that a guide or reference?
> 
> This is why I prefer to ask questions from those who have alreasdy been down this road before. I searched online and found on wikipedia that #2 grade buckets were best for storing foods. These buckets are #5
> 
> I want to get this right BEFORE


The numbers in the triangle is for recycling. The number refers to the type of plastic so the recycling plant doesn't mix them.

http://www.wikihow.com/Identify-Food-Grade-Buckets


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

#2 and #5 are both food grade. #5 is a lighterweight plastic than #2.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

I read the link in detail. These buckets were obviosuly used for storing food supplies. However they have no fork & cup symbols on them. LOL I just want to get this right the first time. I will have to get lids for these 2 buckets. 

I emailed the bakery again and asked them to contact me when they were getting rid of more buckets and to save the lids as well.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Lake Windsong said:


> #2 and #5 are both food grade. #5 is a lighterweight plastic than #2.


I emailed the company who manufactures the wallpaper paste. In the last year they have changed their buckets from white to black. Supposedly the new bucket has already been recycled. I have personally known the owner of this company for @20 years. I also left him a voice mail on his cell phone. I'm just trying to get the stright scoop on these buckets and if they are classified as "food storage" grade. He'll give me an honest answer.

Thanks again.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

I just found a local an on Craigslist for 55 gallon drums. I called the guy. They were used for soda. $25 each and he is going to be driving by my area later on. Free delivery (almost). I have to meet him nearby. The lids on these barrels do not come off. They have TWO screw on caps on opposite sides. He has both blue & white barrels. I asked for blue. Is this what I am looking for for water storage?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hangman said:


> I just found a local an on Craigslist for 55 gallon drums. I called the guy. They were used for soda. $25 each and he is going to be driving by my area later on. Free delivery (almost). I have to meet him nearby. The lids on these barrels do not come off. They have TWO screw on caps on opposite sides. He has both blue & white barrels. I asked for blue. Is this what I am looking for for water storage?


Those drums will work. Just be 100% sure in your mind about what was stored in them. If it was cleaning chemicals I'd said stay away. But food items- go for it.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Okay I'm picking up two 55 gallon plastic drums that stored soda in @ 30 minutes from a guy nearby. He has both white & blue. I am getting the blue ones. He said they have 2 screws off caps. I plan on washing them out thoroughly.

What do I do next? Do I use some sort of sterlizer or sanitizer before adding water? Then what? A garden hose to fill it? We have soft water here. How do I treat the water once I fill it? What methods do I have to get the water out of the barrels? I plan on keeping them in the basement. Thanks for any helpful advice.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Put them in the basement before you fill them.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Thanks but I kind of figured out that part! LOL


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

But once I fill up the barrel what do I have to add to keep it fresh? What procedure and how much?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Rinse 'em good and fill with tap water. When you get ready to use 'em add 1 ounce household bleach to each barrel and let stand for an hour.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Okay thanks. Just curious though. Is there a downside of adding bleach after the barrel is full?

Also how do I get the water out? Do they make self tapping faucets or spigots? Or am I supposed to use some sort of hand pump?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

No need to put bleach on the initial fill because you are filling 'em with treated water. Add bleach if you need to use 'em, like in a year of six months. Bleach (chlorine) is volitile and evaporates out of the water over time. You can even use pool chemicals to treat your drinking water but I don't know the amount right off hand.

You can use a long straw but it is kinda tedious. Some folks store barrels on their side but I don't think that is an option for the blue plastic barrels. You can use a siphon which works better if the barrel is higher than the container. You can buy a pump.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

For those that want to read about grades of plastic buckets and such, I offer another link:

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/plastics.html


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

are there any pumps that come to mind for getting the water out of a 55 gallon plastic drum?

I just got back with them and unscrewed the cap. I can smell the soda residue and remaining liquid inside. I'm going to wash it out thoroughly tomorrow.

There are 2 large screw in plugs on the top. It does not have a removable lid. I guess I'l have to fill it up with some soapy water and shake it around, drain it and flush it out. Is there any disadvantage of getting 55 gallon drums with removable lids?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Please do not place the drums on concrete. If you need to store them on a concrete slab put some wood under them at the very least.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Please do not place the drums on concrete. If you need to store them on a concrete slab put some wood under them at the very least.


I thought that myth had been busted.



hangman said:


> are there any pumps that come to mind for getting the water out of a 55 gallon plastic drum?


Look through EE's site they have siphon pumps and fittings for just that purpose.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> I thought that myth had been busted.


Rather safe than sorry.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Rather safe than sorry.


That couldn't be funnier coming from you. :laugh:


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

PackerBacker said:


> I thought that myth had been busted.
> 
> Look through EE's site they have siphon pumps and fittings for just that purpose.


I can't seem to find them on the EE website


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

hangman said:


> I can't seem to find them on the EE website


I can't either since their site changed.

Here is something though;

http://www.homelandpreparedness.com...te=qk/prod_supp_water_sr2.htm&0_option=1&0=2E


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

i found some searching online at different places. I see some hand pumps selling for @ $20 up to @$200 Again I am new to this but is there any reason to spend a lot of money on a hand pump? I don't know the design differences and whether it makes any difference. Or for that matter if they don't work well (the cheaper ones) or have limitations.

Thanks


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

I'd personally get one of these:










and one of these:

http://beprepared.com/water/water-storage/spigot-for-5-gallon-jug.html


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

I can't see the need to a hand truck like that. I don't plan on moving them once they're filled.

The spigot sounds like a good idea. But how to you install it? They don't say aything about that on the link.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

..........................


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hangman said:


> I can't see the need to a hand truck like that. I don't plan on moving them once they're filled.
> 
> The spigot sounds like a good idea. But how to you install it? They don't say aything about that on the link.


The spigot screws into the bung.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

Sorry, for some reason I was thinking that they were attached on the side of the barrel. I didn't realize that the thread size was that large to screw into the top of the barrel. I guess in order to use it you would have to lay the barrel on its side.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

hangman said:


> Sorry, for some reason I was thinking that they were attached on the side of the barrel. I didn't realize that the thread size was that large to screw into the top of the barrel. I guess in order to use it you would have to lay the barrel on its side.


And that is what this is for.


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## hangman (Feb 18, 2013)

now I understand!


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## scodoublet (Jun 25, 2012)

I make my own wine, so I end up with 5 leftover 6 gallon plastic buckets that the juice came in, with lids, every year.
Not to mention all the wine I end up with, too!


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## RossA (Oct 9, 2008)

We have been saving the plastic buckets with lids that our cat litter comes in. The only thing that has been in there is a kind of clay based, dry material that shouldn't have any adverse effect on food.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

RossA said:


> We have been saving the plastic buckets with lids that our cat litter comes in. The only thing that has been in there is a kind of clay based, dry material that shouldn't have any adverse effect on food.


Just be careful, because clay isn't the only thing in cat litter anymore, at least for the most part. If it were me, I would line them with mylar before even thinking about using them.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

I get buckets from the bakery I work at. If you go into one, be open to different sizes. We get almost no 5 gallon buckets, but we do get 3 gallon round buckets and large square buckets.
Plus, there are smaller buckets all the way down to 1 or 1/2 gallon. I use those for grains that I don't buy in bulk or that I'm trying for the first time. They also work well for making a sourdough starter in.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

RossA said:


> We have been saving the plastic buckets with lids that our cat litter comes in. The only thing that has been in there is a kind of clay based, dry material that shouldn't have any adverse effect on food.


Clumping kitty litter contains perfumes and/or deodorants as well as clay. Tidy Cats Brand clumping kitty litter actually contains Glade Air Freshener.

I don't trust those containers for our food, but do use them to keep other supplies in, because they are water resistant.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

I wrote this response on another forum a couple years ago:

The code is there for a reason. It is also used as a standard manufacturing code. 
2 is for High Density Polyethylene. By the nature of it's manufacture it is food grade. 
Not all companies can or will confirm with a manufacturer of a product (plastic container) of it's specific molecular structure, therefore they have codes to go by. A container may change hands many times through middlemen/ wholesalers before it gets to the end user. The code enables the end user the information that the specific container is what they want (HDPE)

You will be hard pressed to find a 1,2,3,5,6,7 gallon plastic bucket that is not HDPE #2. 
The reason is simple economics.
Example:
As a pastic bucket manufacturer I have 5 different customers. 3 of those customers want buckets for a food grade application, the other two for non food application. I buy my plastic by the ton. If I buy 10 tons of HDPE plastic, I get a price break as opposed to 7 tons of HDPE and 3 tons of vinyl. I have less labor costs in set up and change over of equipment, less down time for the change over and I can sell my over run to other potential customers, food grade or non food grade. This makes the buckets cheaper for all 5 customers.

Food grade being the higher quality of plastic is more desirable since I can't make that plastic any better but a non food grade customer can still use it. Added pigment is only for asthetic purposes. Most 5 gallon buckets are white for the same reasons. I can sell a white bucket to anyone cheaper because it is not a special color. My run can be longer saving me money in time and labor. 
Colored buckets, take Lowes Home Improvement 5 gallon buckets for example, are done in the silver/gray for advertising purposes. Silver/gray and blue are the company color scheme. It doesn't change the molecular structure of the bucket, just the color. If the manufacturer would have an over run and Lowes would not buy them they have to be able to sell them at the highest quality that they can.....a food grade bucket. That way they can hit any customer from food grade on down to non food grade. 
I hope this has cleared up any confusion


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