# Propane powered generator



## texas_red

I've been looking at getting a portable generator to use during outages and propane power looks pretty appealing. Do any of you have any experiences you'd be willing to share? Thanks.


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## Tirediron

Propane it's self is an excellent fuel, keeps forever, hard to spill, clean except for the odorizing oil. As for the generator, you would have to find some one with a specific model, not all propane systems are equal.


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## texas_red

Thanks for the response.

The one I'm interested in is:

GEN7000LP Portable Propane Generator With Electric Start, Clean Burning LPG, 7000 Peak Watts-GEN7000LP at The Home Depot


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## Nadja

Well, a lot of things will matter here. The most important one being just what are your intended uses for it. In other words, do you just intend to use it for the fridge and a tv ? If your uses are light, then this would / should work just fine. If it is for portable use, then yes, it may well be the way for you to go. If you instead want to wire it permanantly into your house breaker box via a transfer switch, then no it is not the one you want.


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## texas_red

Nadja said:


> Well, a lot of things will matter here. The most important one being just what are your intended uses for it. In other words, do you just intend to use it for the fridge and a tv ? If your uses are light, then this would / should work just fine. If it is for portable use, then yes, it may well be the way for you to go. If you instead want to wire it permanantly into your house breaker box via a transfer switch, then no it is not the one you want.


It's just for occasional use during outages. It'll run the fridge, radio, coffee pot and a few lights.


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## Nadja

If that is all you intend to use if for, you really don't need one that large. My main back up gennie in case of a lack of sun is a 7k Kohler, however, I not only run my entire house with it but also charge my large battery bank all at once. My gennie runs: My large fridge/freezer, chest freezer, large crt 27" tv, lights, water pump and usually at least one of my old fashioned desk top computers all while charging my battery bank. You could very easily get by on about a 4k with room to spare. Propane is the best choice for what your intended purpose is. Won't go bad and much safer to store then either gas or diesel


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## mpguy18

Nadja said:


> If that is all you intend to use if for, you really don't need one that large. My main back up gennie in case of a lack of sun is a 7k Kohler, however, I not only run my entire house with it but also charge my large battery bank all at once. My gennie runs: My large fridge/freezer, chest freezer, large crt 27" tv, lights, water pump and usually at least one of my old fashioned desk top computers all while charging my battery bank. You could very easily get by on about a 4k with room to spare. Propane is the best choice for what your intended purpose is. Won't go bad and much safer to store then either gas or diesel


Nadja - you can actually run all of that on a 7kw? I too have been looking at propane generators. Like the Generac but thought I would need much more than 7K to power. Am I just over sizing the system?


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## Nadja

MPGuy. Yes I do run all of that on my 7k. Remember this though as it is really important. Not all gennies are made equal. My 7k is a Kohler twin, which only runs at 1800 rpm. It can and will put out max power for very long periods of time. It puts out around 40 amps while my single 5.5 k actually only delivers about 28 amps, and that not for a very long period of time. Most all of these small gennies made now are coming from China and do not trust the "ratings" given on them. If you need the generator to back up your entire house, then I would suggest that you get at least a 7k. 

Are you going to wire it in permanently to your house ? Or, are you going to use it strictly for when you have once in awhile blackouts or power Loss. ? For the long hauls you want at least a twin, for once in awhile , sure a single little propane gennie would be ok The little ones scream and will not hold out for a long period of time, while the older Kohler and Onan twins which were made for r.v.'s will last almost forever. Look for one of them at rv wrecking yards etc, craigs list .


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## MichaelK

I recognized the Buffulo tools generator immediately, because I have the gasoline version. I routinely use mine for several hours every two weeks, mostly for continously pumping well water into storage.

I've only had my generator now for two years and I've already had three problems with it. The starter relay broke with a closed circuit failure. That means it would crank the starter motor whenever it was connected to battery power, whether it was switched to start or not. Because the generator was mail-ordered from Home Depot, I couldn't return it to the store. I would have to have shipped it cross-country back to Buffulo tools for warranty repair.

The second problem was a fuel leak caused by a too short rubber hose that kept slipping off the carburator nipple. That really freaked me out, seeing fuel dripping off of the running generator, onto the floor. I replaced the hose with longer rubber tubing I bought at a local lawn mower shop.

I was able to perform the warranty repair myself with a new relay that BT mailed me. I replaced the rubber hose myself with the hose I paid for. 
The generator worked for another season till something else in the starter subsystem failed. Got an error code of "P050" but the BT service people could NOT tell me what that message was. At that point the 1 year warranty was over. Been using the generator by pull-starting it for the last season. I might get around to diagnosing the problem some day and fixing the electric start, but for now I just am lazy enough to pull start it.

My recommendations to you is not to buy anything that isn't in-stock at the store. That way, you can just return it locally if there's a problem. Also, I wouldn't buy anything that wasn't dual (electric/pull) starting.

Good luck,
Michael


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## texas_red

Mike -

Thanks for the heads up. And I was considering the online order from Home Depot, too. Guess it's back to the drawing board. :dunno:


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## pdxr13

*+1 on aircooled twin RV generators*



Nadja said:


> MPGuy. Yes I do run all of that on my 7k. Remember this though as it is really import Not all gennies are made equal. My 7k is a Kohler twin, which only runs at 1800 rpm. (snip)


I have an Onan BGE 1800rpm 4KW model from a mid-1980's RV, and it will start motors that 6KW (alleged) Harbor Freight gensets will not. It will start and run a 3500W RV rooftop air conditioner, and a little bit of other stuff, but not 2 AC units at once. That's with points, low compression (will burn 85 octane gas just fine, who knows what effect 10% Ethanol will have), and 1920's technology L-Head. It works okay if you think of it as a 1938 750cc Indian motorcycle without wheels or a seat. This is a heavy piece of metal: 2 strong men lift.

There is a Pertronix pointless ignition kit to put on the old Onan. 'Sposta make the ignition steadier (more accurate, with the crank trigger) and hotter, and it might let me advance a few degrees. Real soon now.

Output is 120v only, but by the manual and the terminals, it looks like 240v is possible. This is a 60Hz system. There is a circuit board, with the usual failing capacitors and small diodes. Some older systems have fully-mechanical regulation, but electronics can be upgraded for reliability and less fussiness than mechanical. six-of-one, half-dozen of the other.

I've seen advertisement for a 3-way fuel adapter carb, that's illegal in California, to allow you to use gasoline, propane, or plumb into municipal natural gas. A low-stress engine like the Onan could run on propane even longer (engine life) than on gasoline, given oil/filter changes and cooling. A low-tech engine like the flathead Onan would run as well as anything on woodgas.

If there aren't any leaks, using synthetic oil for a few changes is not overkill. Fix leaks. Synthetic oil scrubs away crud in oil passageways and does what regular oil does even better. No additional mpgs or KW/H per gallon promised, but maybe extended changes with oil analysis (but you still have to change filter on manufacturer's schedule). Almost certainly, longer engine life.

The spin-on oil filter is 4 cylinder auto size (1/2 quart contents), and cross reference Onan/Cummins 122-0645 to carquest 85348, and probably all the other filter mfg's. Crank case is a gallon, just like a Corolla, so you can bet it's going to last longer than a 3600 rpm model with an 8oz crankcase and a metal screen filter.

Cummins will sell you an exact manual for the old gensets, or the usual on-line pdf's may be good enough. Cummins stocks Onan Emerald Green spray paint for $7 a can, which is enough to recoat an old set of outer panels to look really good.


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## Tirediron

L head fuel sucking Onans are fine if you don't consider the rediculus amount of fuel per kw and never have to buy parts for them. model numbers are only a guide line with the Onan parts are a nightmare and expensive


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## NaeKid

texas_red said:


> It's just for occasional use during outages. It'll run the fridge, radio, coffee pot and a few lights.


May I suggest that coffee / tea / hot chocolate be cooked-up on a propane stove instead. A simple 2-burner portable stove that is normally used for camping (Coleman is a very popular brand) would do wonders. Add to that stove a propane BBQ and you will be able to create meals and hot drinks fit for a king.


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## Nadja

I had one of those onan's for years. After it started pumping more oil than gas, I sold it for what I paid for it to someone else. I replaced my onan with a Kohler 7k and man it is the cat's meow, even though it is 30 years old. You can't beat the old rv gennies. They were built rugged and to last. Only thing you need to add to them is a gas tank, which I got a gas tank from a wrecked boad. Steel and about 15 gal. Keep the oil and filter changed and they good to go for years


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## BillM

*Propane*

I have a propane generator just large enough to run the freezer and Fridge. 3500 watts.

It also has a 12 VDC charging circuit to charge a 12 VDC lighting system.

I also have two ventless propane heaters sufficent to heat my home in an emergency.

My cook stove is also propane.

I have a thousand gallon tank. This gives me 800 gallons of propane in the event of an emergency


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## Jimmy24

Though I don't have a propane powered genset, I do have a NH brand genset. It has been very dependable. You can take a look here.

propane generators from Northern Tool + Equipment

Jimmy


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## Nadja

pdxr13 said:


> I have an Onan BGE 1800rpm 4KW model from a mid-1980's RV, and it will start motors that 6KW (alleged) Harbor Freight gensets will not. It will start and run a 3500W RV rooftop air conditioner, and a little bit of other stuff, but not 2 AC units at once. That's with points, low compression (will burn 85 octane gas just fine, who knows what effect 10% Ethanol will have), and 1920's technology L-Head. It works okay if you think of it as a 1938 750cc Indian motorcycle without wheels or a seat. This is a heavy piece of metal: 2 strong men lift.
> 
> There is a Pertronix pointless ignition kit to put on the old Onan. 'Sposta make the ignition steadier (more accurate, with the crank trigger) and hotter, and it might let me advance a few degrees. Real soon now.
> 
> Output is 120v only, but by the manual and the terminals, it looks like 240v is possible. This is a 60Hz system. There is a circuit board, with the usual failing capacitors and small diodes. Some older systems have fully-mechanical regulation, but electronics can be upgraded for reliability and less fussiness than mechanical. six-of-one, half-dozen of the other.
> 
> I've seen advertisement for a 3-way fuel adapter carb, that's illegal in California, to allow you to use gasoline, propane, or plumb into municipal natural gas. A low-stress engine like the Onan could run on propane even longer (engine life) than on gasoline, given oil/filter changes and cooling. A low-tech engine like the flathead Onan would run as well as anything on woodgas.
> 
> If there aren't any leaks, using synthetic oil for a few changes is not overkill. Fix leaks. Synthetic oil scrubs away crud in oil passageways and does what regular oil does even better. No additional mpgs or KW/H per gallon promised, but maybe extended changes with oil analysis (but you still have to change filter on manufacturer's schedule). Almost certainly, longer engine life.
> 
> The spin-on oil filter is 4 cylinder auto size (1/2 quart contents), and cross reference Onan/Cummins 122-0645 to carquest 85348, and probably all the other filter mfg's. Crank case is a gallon, just like a Corolla, so you can bet it's going to last longer than a 3600 rpm model with an 8oz crankcase and a metal screen filter.
> 
> Cummins will sell you an exact manual for the old gensets, or the usual on-line pdf's may be good enough. Cummins stocks Onan Emerald Green spray paint for $7 a can, which is enough to recoat an old set of outer panels to look really good.


Good advice. I had the same one for years, and when I got my Kohler, sold my 4k rv onan to my old framing partner. He loves it. Rv gennies especially from the older ones, are fantastic. 
They are cast iron and made to last, and they will. Your 4k as well as my 7k are easily changed over to allow 220 if you desire, but would urge you to make sure it is right. Also, I have been told that if you do this , you may need to make very sure that while running the 220 like a well etc, you do NOT also try and pull 110 power at the same time. Good luck


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## The_Blob

Nadja said:


> Good advice. I had the same one for years, and when I got my Kohler, sold my 4k rv onan to my old framing partner. He loves it. Rv gennies especially from the older ones, are fantastic.
> They are cast iron and made to last, and they will. Your 4k as well as my 7k are easily changed over to allow 220 if you desire, but would urge you to make sure it is right. Also, I have been told that if you do this , you may need to make very sure that while running the 220 like a well etc, you do NOT also try and pull 110 power at the same time. Good luck


I feed the 220 into the breaker box (after shutting the main off) and it works perfectly.


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## Nadja

Never thought of feeding it into a breaker box. My gennie goes direct to my inverter which has a 120 amp battery charger built into it.


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## The_Blob

Nadja said:


> Never thought of feeding it into a breaker box. My gennie goes direct to my inverter which has a 120 amp battery charger built into it.


you're running primarily a 12volt *DC* system tho, nes pas? :dunno:

converted RV appliances and all that?


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## Freedom

I have a Natural gas well 100 yards up the hill from my house I just bought. The service road to the well cuts through my property so I'm going to Talk to the well owner to see if I can either get free gas or gas at a discount rate. If so I'm going to convert everything in the house to NG even the fridge and freezer. I already have ventless propane heat that I will change to ng also. For a power supply a good old Onan RV genny can be converted to NG. I may even get some gas lamps for emergency lights.

A and C Propane Natural Gas Conversion Kits


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## SlobberToofTigger

Old post but worth keeping going.

I have a Briggs & Stratton 7kw propane generator that I back feed into my house using a (UL etc approved) generator interlock kit on my main panel. The propane is great for all the reasons already posted and a few more:
1. If I run out of propane for my grill I have lots of spares
2. Very low CO
3. Very low oder
4. No gummed up carbs ever

It runs everything in my house but the AC and to handle that I have two small window units.

I also have a small gas backup as many other mentioned on here but I have only used it to start the larger generator after I let the battery run down...


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## BillM

*HVAC Contractor*



Freedom said:


> I have a Natural gas well 100 yards up the hill from my house I just bought. The service road to the well cuts through my property so I'm going to Talk to the well owner to see if I can either get free gas or gas at a discount rate. If so I'm going to convert everything in the house to NG even the fridge and freezer. I already have ventless propane heat that I will change to ng also. For a power supply a good old Onan RV genny can be converted to NG. I may even get some gas lamps for emergency lights.
> 
> A and C Propane Natural Gas Conversion Kits


Boy I hate this but I was a HVAC Master Contractor for over thirty years.

We had an oil boom , resulting in a number of natural gas wells.

Every one who had one on their property got real excited about doing exactly what you are describing.

They would call me and tell me that the gas oil driller had agreed to let them tap on to the narural gas and would I come and install a natural gas furnace and lines in their house to run the dryer , refrigerator , gas logs,stove and hot water heater.

I would refuse. Natural gas from a well is not refined and regulated.

By refined , I mean it has all the impuritys removed from it , such as sulfer and water.

Regulated means that it is first compressed and then the pressure is regulated to insure a constant pressure. Gas wells huff and puff.

If they huff too much the pressure drops to low and if they happen to puff too much , it can blow the regulator and the pop off valve.

Modern gas appliances are designed to opperate on a clean regulated sorce of natural gas.

If you can smell it at all it is too dirty and will ruin your new furnace quickly.

For instance if it has sulfer , ( it all does), it will form sulfer dioxide and precipate out in the heat exchanger causeing holes to open between the combustion chamber and the interior air flow. You could die in your sleep of C0 poisening.

The other issue is the product liability insurance that is afforded by all manufacturers. Your home owners policy counts on it and if you have voided your productlaibility coverage by attaching the appliance to an unregulated sorce of fuel, they will opt out on exclusions.

I saw two houses burn to the ground because the owner thought he was going to get free utilitys by hooking on a gas well.

It isn't worth it !


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## Freedom

BillM said:


> Boy I hate this but I was a HVAC Master Contractor for over thirty years.
> 
> We had an oil boom , resulting in a number of natural gas wells.
> 
> Every one who had one on their property got real excited about doing exactly what you are describing.
> 
> They would call me and tell me that the gas oil driller had agreed to let them tap on to the narural gas and would I come and install a natural gas furnace and lines in their house to run the dryer , refrigerator , gas logs,stove and hot water heater.
> 
> I would refuse. Natural gas from a well is not refined and regulated.
> 
> By refined , I mean it has all the impuritys removed from it , such as sulfer and water.
> 
> Regulated means that it is first compressed and then the pressure is regulated to insure a constant pressure. Gas wells huff and puff.
> 
> If they huff too much the pressure drops to low and if they happen to puff too much , it can blow the regulator and the pop off valve.
> 
> Modern gas appliances are designed to opperate on a clean regulated sorce of natural gas.
> 
> If you can smell it at all it is too dirty and will ruin your new furnace quickly.
> 
> For instance if it has sulfer , ( it all does), it will form sulfer dioxide and precipate out in the heat exchanger causeing holes to open between the combustion chamber and the interior air flow. You could die in your sleep of C0 poisening.
> 
> The other issue is the product liability insurance that is afforded by all manufacturers. Your home owners policy counts on it and if you have voided your productlaibility coverage by attaching the appliance to an unregulated sorce of fuel, they will opt out on exclusions.
> 
> I saw two houses burn to the ground because the owner thought he was going to get free utilitys by hooking on a gas well.
> 
> It isn't worth it !


This well is regulated and compressed into a storage tank on site. My neighbors have used it for 20 years now for heating and cooking with no problems. They have the wall hung ventless heaters and a gas stove/oven and hot water heater. 
If I can get it for free it will be worth running a line just for the genny alone.


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## BillM

*Provided*



Freedom said:


> This well is regulated and compressed into a storage tank on site. My neighbors have used it for 20 years now for heating and cooking with no problems. They have the wall hung ventless heaters and a gas stove/oven and hot water heater.
> If I can get it for free it will be worth running a line just for the genny alone.


Provided that it is clean and presurized in a tank and regulated from there ,your appliances will operate properly

However , you are still risking an exclusion on your homeowners insurance because when the Mfg. warranty and liability insurance state a "regulated sorce of natural gas at .03 wc, they mean from an inspected utility , not a private sorce which is not subjected to inspections by regulators.

Good luck , I wish you the best with your project.


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## GetPreparedStuff

I have modified my own Honda EU2000i to run on either propane, natural gas or gasoline and much prefer propane for use over gasoline. (Haven't tried NG yet).

One of the best benefits is that a #20 propane bottle hold 4 times as much fuel as the internal gas tank so I don't have to mess with refilling the tank as often and propane is cheaper and stores a lot longer and easier than gasoline too.

Here's a link to a yahoo group that talks about Honda EU2000 generators and there are some posts and docs that talk about the process.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> L head fuel sucking Onans are fine if you don't consider the rediculus amount of fuel per kw and never have to buy parts for them. model numbers are only a guide line with the Onan parts are a nightmare and expensive


They are a damn good start. I converted mine to dedicated natural gas: 
1) Milled the heads so the combustion chamber actually sits down inside the gasket
2) Created dual igntion systems, one for "start" (Original points at 15* timing) and one for "run" (HEI unit triggered by flywheel), adjustable between 20* and 30* while running (with MSD timing adjust), usually at 27* BTDC.

This thing will do a solid 5KW continuous. It will also start a 3 ton central air unit (not sure what that peak start load is).


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## BillM

*Peak starting load*



LincTex said:


> They are a damn good start. I converted mine to dedicated natural gas:
> 1) Milled the heads so the combustion chamber actually sits down inside the gasket
> 2) Created dual igntion systems, one for "start" (Original points at 15* timing) and one for "run" (HEI unit triggered by flywheel), adjustable between 20* and 30* while running (with MSD timing adjust), usually at 27* BTDC.
> 
> This thing will do a solid 5KW continuous. It will also start a 3 ton central air unit (not sure what that peak start load is).


You can figure the "peak start load" at 180% of the rated amp draw.

Hope this helps . :wave:


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## Tirediron

LincTex said:


> They are a damn good start. I converted mine to dedicated natural gas:
> 1) Milled the heads so the combustion chamber actually sits down inside the gasket
> 2) Created dual igntion systems, one for "start" (Original points at 15* timing) and one for "run" (HEI unit triggered by flywheel), adjustable between 20* and 30* while running (with MSD timing adjust), usually at 27* BTDC.
> 
> This thing will do a solid 5KW continuous. It will also start a 3 ton central air unit (not sure what that peak start load is).


Do your modifications help with the fuel efficiency , they must,with the extra torque provided by the higher compression, I just hate to try to get parts for the darn things, if you can find them they are expensive. And the gen heads are usually really robust, Great for ohv engine conversions.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> Do your modifications help with the fuel efficiency , they must,with the extra torque provided by the higher compression, I just hate to try to get parts for the darn things, if you can find them they are expensive. And the gen heads are usually really robust, Great for ohv engine conversions.


I get all my parts NOS on ebay, at least the very few I needed. Not a lot to go wrong on my older CCK unit.

The added compression and timing make all the difference when on Natural Gas, I have yet to do any fuel consumption testing. Too many other irons in the fire right now.


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## Viking

LincTex said:


> I get all my parts NOS on ebay, at least the very few I needed. Not a lot to go wrong on my older CCK unit.
> 
> The added compression and timing make all the difference when on Natural Gas, I have yet to do any fuel consumption testing. Too many other irons in the fire right now.


This is a great thing for propane as well, due to the low compression ratio of most engines they don't burn propane efficiently. The propane powered Kohler generator on our motorhome will go through a tank so fast that it's far less expensive to run the Cummins and charge the house batteries which run an inverter. Those old slow turning generators are the best, easy on the engine and easy on the gen bearings, the thing most people don't understand is that they also had heavy copper windings which could take the heavy jolt of starting large electric motors. I've looked at a lot of newer generators and at their so called ratings and just the wires coming out of the generator shell are often look way too small to have the ratings they were claiming.


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