# How good are you at getting from point A to point B?



## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

We all navigate everyday along well known routes. But what happens when those well worn paths are no longer available to us? I've seen people get lost when they had to simply make a NW to N jog along a route that they have traveled many times before.

How many folks here understand the basics of land navigation, either on foot or in a vehicle, or even practice the use of a compass in the age of GPS?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Crossed the Atlantic, navigated all of S.E. Alaska, driven all over the United States, spent several days at a time in the woods away from roads, hunted over a hundred miles from the closest road and close to five hundred miles from the nearest highway. Yes, I can read a map, chart, and compass.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Balls004 said:


> How many folks here understand the basics of land navigation, either on foot or in a vehicle, or even practice the use of a compass in the age of GPS?


We had to learn as part of our scuba diving training. They blindfolded us where we could only see our compass. Underwater, it's easy to get turned around & you're likely to get lost relying on your own sense of direction. I'm still not very good at it but I can muddle through. Hubby is much better because he flies planes & is trained to fly only with instruments.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I was a scout in the infantry. Topo maps are a hobby of mine. I also do land navigation with a couple friends once or twice a year. It's a fun day. Use a GPS to set up several points in a national park you have maps for close to a benchmark. Then give everyone the grid points. First ones back get the cold beer. When starting with newbie's I generally make it easy by putting the points at the top of hills. Harder walk but the seem to get the gist and start walking up hills when they get turned around. Number the points and have em right down which ones they find where to see who needs a refresher. Something good to remember, when adding or subtracting declination, grid (map) to magnetic (compass) you subtract. When going from magnetic to grid you add. Memory tool......general (G for grid) to major (M for magnetic ) is a reduction in rank therefore you subtract. Major to general is up in rank therefore you add.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I have taught several others how to read maps and travel by compass. But out here in the mostly wide open west unless you travel at night you can almost always see huge distant landmarks so you don't really need a compass. 
I hike a lot and though I often carry a compass I never look at it even though I very seldom travel on any kind of trail. With constantly visible landmarks and the sun, who needs a compass?


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

For those of us who have no problem with direction and navigation, it is sometimes difficult to understand how others really do struggle with this. 

I worked with a woman who was in her late 50s, but she could take on the stance and look of a helpless child with a single question or conversation. She wore her hair pulled up and it was childlike. It was who she was in her family growing up, the youngest girl, and helpless was the role she adopted. It worked for her and her family. V played this role when she drove. She could talk and talk about getting lost going from A to B. She once said there was a circular ramp from one road to another where you could get on and keep going around and around. I doubt it, but somehow, this was one of her things.

I craft twice a week with two women who both talk about the fact that they get lost going places they have never been before, even if it is very close to home. One of them lives less than a mile from a donut shop she wanted to go to. She said it took her more than 15 minutes to get there because she had never been there before. She said her daughter was yelling and yelling at her about where to turn and there it is and just park there. The two women who discuss this often enough say that even a GPS doesn't work for them. :dunno: I do not get it. One of them has a need to assume to be the boss, so maybe there is some of that in it for her. 

There is also the thing about directions, north, south, east and west. I have tried to tell some people to go west this far, and they will stop me and say, I don't know which direction west is. :gaah: 

I have met enough people for whom this seems to be an issue that it must truly be a learning disability, or somehow a lack of training. The sad reality is that they are all women!

Growing up on the plains of South Dakota, almost all roads are north-south or east-west. I remember my first time driving in Rapid City where roads are built around hills, and not perpendicular to one another. I could feel my sense of direction getting messed up. In Colorado, at least in the Front Range, the mountains are the anchor as they are to the west.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

i grew up in the country.where most of the areas i went to play and to swim,is/was wooded areas.so i got a natural learning in navigation in wooded areas.i learned to remember land marks,to stopping to have a good look around just to get/keep my bearings right.i also learned to read maps,at least some what while growing up.on account we took vacation trips every summer.i just hope that i know and remember enough for when i get into areas that i dont know to well or not at all..i have at least 4 compass's.in which i kept one outside,where i sit at when i first moved in,where i live now,just to help me relearn north south west and east seeing how it was a new location to me.i keep a gps in the vehicle.but the main use for it,at least 98% of time,is for the clock and my speed.so the only time i do use it,is for where im going to.is when im going to someplace i havent been before.or im going someplace where i rarely go to..


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

The reason I asked, is because I work at Sportsmans Warehouse part time, and it amazed me when I discovered just how many people today are not capable of simple topographic map reading and land nav using a compass. Most are so dependent on GPS, that when the thing dies or runs out of juice, you know that they are going to end up lost and probably a casualty to boot.

I pretty much suspected that most here were pretty good at it, or at least have taken some time to learn the basics.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

questions like that,are good questions..as one saying goes.the only dumb question,is the one that dont get asked..the more a person learns in navigation,and the different ways of navigation.the better off they are..even if that includes certain side street and or allies they dont travel.on account that means they know of other routes to take..


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Balls004 said:


> The reason I asked, is because I work at Sportsmans Warehouse part time, and it amazed me when I discovered just how many people today are not capable of simple topographic map reading and land nav using a compass. Most are so dependent on GPS, that when the thing dies or runs out of juice, you know that they are going to end up lost and probably a casualty to boot.
> 
> I pretty much suspected that most here were pretty good at it, or at least have taken some time to learn the basics.


I think if there was the opportunity for classes on topographic maps and navigation, many of us would benefit. I have come to realize that when I was in 6th grade, I learned some things that I would not have realized are basic, but that some people have not learned: how land is divided into sections, quarters, etc., and the notation or recording of land, flood plains, numbering of roads (even numbered road run east-west, odd numbered run north-south), even numbered houses are on the south or east side of streets, while odd numbers are on the north or west sides. Basic, but I have talked about it with people whose eyes seem to glaze over, and again, all women!

I also had a geography class in college that was excellent and what I now consider basic and fabulous information. We did some good work with topographic maps which I am so glad I learned about.

What comes up in my mind is people giving directions. I have come to realize that when I get directions from anyone, I need to ask questions. Have you ever had someone say, "We are at 1600 Broadway" and when you get to that address, it is a tall building. No directions about how and where to park, no directions about how to proceed to elevators or anything, as though all of us who drive to 1600 Broadway would just automatically know the rest. I can tell you that whenever I have had poor directions or instructions like this, I let the person who didn't give me good directions know that anyone who had never been there before could sure get better help with it than I had. Usually, but not always, they are female! 

I wonder if it has to do with me growing up in a rural community? Is it that females are not expected to ever know anything with directions in urban areas?

I go back to the 2 women who say they don't like to go places they have never been before because they get lost so easily. I love to go places I have never been before and to explore and love the sense of adventure. So does my daughter. We love road trips. We love new places.

In a SHTF situation, you can be prepped to the max, but if you get lost from A to B, it will all be worthless. Imagine all those people lost in the woods.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Never really had a problem myself. Sometimes I may not know exactly where I am but can take a minute to look around and reorient myself and am good again.

The wife when we got together couldn't find her way around much at all. Over the years while taking a road trip, one of our favorite pastimes, I have instructed her and made her figure out where we go to get to a certain location and to match that to what's around us. She has gotten so good, I now rely on her when traveling.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

one thing that i've reminded my mom about,is,just because a certain route looks good.dont mean it's the better and/or faster route.her primary doctors office is at one of the hospitals.in which,she always took 1 of 2 routes.i took her on a diff route i dont know how many times.in which she finaly got quiet about.simply because it's faster and shorter then the routes she had been takeing..


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I can find my way pretty well, but sometimes give inverse directions, saying east when I mean west, I usually don't mess north and south up as far as I know.:factor10:


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

As a teen I regularly **** hunted in swamps at night, never had a problem. As an adult for many years I flew to cities I’d never been too, was expected to find a hospital and repair their catscan, never had a problem. A trick I learned, I tried to book my flights so I could see the city from the air before landing during the day. From the air I could orient terrain markers, rivers, mtns, etc. In most of the world Avenues run north/south, Streets, east/west, odd numbered highways are N/S, Evens are E/W.

I also flew to countries where I didn’t speak the language and couldn’t read the street signs. Only once did I have a problem. I flew across 11 time zones, the sun was coming up when my body said it should be going down, same for sunset, should be sunrise. This messed up my sense of north/south, east/west. I was lost in that country for a week until my body clock adjusted.  Afterwards I had no problem including traveling underground rail.

I’ve always had a strong sense of NSEW, some folks don’t. I know a guy who could get lost in a bathroom!


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

I go back to the 2 women who say they don't like to go places they have never been before because they get lost so easily. I love to go places I have never been before and to explore and love the sense of adventure. So does my daughter. We love road trips. We love new places. 

im just the oppesite when it comes to getting lost..what i'll do if i have all my running around done,and im in no hurry.is if there's a section of town i havent been to in a long time.i'll drive through there,just to relearn it.or if there's a section of town i havent been to at all,i'll drive through there..and im the same way with back roads as well..


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## Necro (Oct 31, 2015)

I learned land nav pretty young. Going camping with a father who's a marine and hikes through the woods we would always practice making our own field maps or navigating with topographic maps. Still practice once or twice a year and have been teaching my wife and the rest of my big out crew. 

Also good to learn how to identify what paths you don't want to take in that case though. Try to identify the routes others are likely to take as well and avoid those.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

Only have to use a compass when it's too cloudy to see the sun.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> ...two women who discuss this often enough say that even a GPS doesn't work for them. :dunno: I do not get it. ....


Men and women think different. Men have the tendency to think awhile to organize their thoughts before speaking. Women speak to organized their thoughts. I'm not saying one is right and the other is wrong, just saying that's just the way we are.

GPS is a male. When the GPS says turn left, it means turn left! Some women find this hard to comprehend because they are waiting for the rest of the discussion to continue.

If GPS was a female. It would say, "My best friend in High School was Edna. Well her 3rd cousin joined the Marines. I don't believe you would know him. His parents lived beside the Lutheran Parsonage on the north side of Town. Church had a big fight over what color to paint the Parsonage and the Pastor, because of the fight, left, ended up in Oregon, or maybe Florida. So when Edna got engaged she didn't know if the Church still rented out their banquet hall or not and didn't know who to call, ended up just eloping."

A man would miss the left turn, because he glazed over around the fourth or fifth word into the explanation.

3 women and 1 male in a car pool. Man is thinking, "Don't these women ever shut up?"

3 men and 1 woman in a car pool. Woman is thinking, "They must be mad at each other, no one is talking."


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

I hiked the Cascade mountains and usually bought topo's to cover the areas I was going to, did the same when hiking in the Colorado Rockies. There have been many times that I've been in unfamiliar area, like one time hunting North of Steamboat Springs, Colorado, where I didn't have a compass or map with me, when I came out to where we were camped I walked over my tracks in the snow, felt pretty good about doing that, seems that I have a natural sense of direction. I've missed where I've wanted to go a few times but always seem to find the trail back to the beginning and that's a good thing.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Jim, sounds like you do like we do. When traveling to the inlaws, we have taken 10 different routes. Some better than others. Some put us in the Hood. 
When just taking a road trip, I will try and get lost, or take a road just because I want to see where it comes out at.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

My wife and her sisters took a road trip from Washington to Texas.
They had a map and still traveled 3 hours is the wrong direction before one of them figured it out.
I may not be Lewis or Clark but I can get where I need to go unless I depend on a GPS device.
Followed ones directions and it had me lost in Portland, Or. during rush hour.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

pretty much..but there's relatives who live a long distance from me.and i rarely go there.in which,it does help to use my gps,which aint failed me yet


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

TimB said:


> Only have to use a compass when it's too cloudy to see the sun.


Come on Timb&#8230; you're here the south, just teasing...  &#8230; In winter fireant beds rise in elevation, the top of the mound is shaped like the letter "D", the apex of the curve is where that nest gets the strongest sunlight. Grey squirrels build summer and winter nests, the summer nest will be on the northern side of the tree, away from prevailing winds&#8230; usually northeast side. Lets not forget the little cedar tree, Juniperus virginiana. They stand on fence lines all over the south... while pointing the way south with their limbs&#8230; 

A wonderful book, "Finding Your Way Without Map or Compass" by Harold Gatty. He was the navigator on the first flight around the world in 1931 with Wiley Post as pilot.

http://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/556574

http://www.amazon.com/Harold-Gatty/e/B001ILOC9K

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Gatty

A great book for those who want to use nature for navigation&#8230; Mr. Gatty wrote the emergency survival book for the Army Air Corp in the pacific during WW2. His book (above) is amazing and easily applied to your local flora and fauna&#8230; A wise investment&#8230;  I have learned so much from this book over the years....:2thumb:


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

I was looking at some property and agent said I would not be able to find it without a gps. Ended up buying the property and never even met the agent.

Now, you want to get confused for a moment, grow up on the west side of the cascades and then move east of the rockies. All the directions are flipped around from what you are used to. Been here 5 years now and still have to stop and think when someone is giving or needing directions.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

Cotton said:


> As a teen I regularly **** hunted in swamps at night, never had a problem. As an adult for many years I flew to cities I'd never been too, was expected to find a hospital and repair their catscan, never had a problem. A trick I learned, I tried to book my flights so I could see the city from the air before landing during the day. From the air I could orient terrain markers, rivers, mtns, etc. In most of the world Avenues run north/south, Streets, east/west, odd numbered highways are N/S, Evens are E/W.
> 
> I also flew to countries where I didn't speak the language and couldn't read the street signs. Only once did I have a problem. I flew across 11 time zones, the sun was coming up when my body said it should be going down, same for sunset, should be sunrise. This messed up my sense of north/south, east/west. I was lost in that country for a week until my body clock adjusted.  Afterwards I had no problem including traveling underground rail.
> 
> I've always had a strong sense of NSEW, some folks don't. I know a guy who could get lost in a bathroom!


When I traveled to new places to repair CT and MRI scanners I just looked for a blue sign with a white H on it. 

Only place I was really lost was Tokyo.
Finally found a guy that spoke English and asked him where the train station was.
He looked at me like I was stupid and pointed to a sign that had a picture of a train.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

backlash said:


> When I traveled to new places to repair CT and MRI scanners I just looked for a blue sign with a white H on it.
> 
> Only place I was really lost was Tokyo.
> Finally found a guy that spoke English and asked him where the train station was.
> He looked at me like I was stupid and pointed to a sign that had a picture of a train.


backlash&#8230; Too funny, I was looking for a clinic in Rahway NJ once. I stopped at a small hospital to see if anyone knew of the clinic. There were 2 service guys by the ER doors so I asked them and they gave me directions&#8230; directions that turned out be to Rahway state prison, a few blocks away! They must have been GE engineers, the competition &#8230; lol. It was funny.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

I can get to the bathroom from the bedroom in the dark of night all by myself!

Try getting turned around in Taiwan in the middle of the night. No street lights and can't read the signs. Luckily I have a good sense of direction and found my way.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

I agree with everyone that has an innate sense of direction through years of tromping through the woods or hunting or just was in Boy Scouts (did they teach this in Girl Scouts?) long enough to get in the neighborhood of where you want to go. How many here can navigate precisely enough to hit a waypoint or destination, on foot over a 15-50 mile unfamiliar route?

Neighborhood is good enough in some instances, but in some cases, you need to be within 20-50 meters of your destination. There are lot's of things that can cause you to miss your mark by miles. If you never get that far from home, great, you're lucky. But if you do have to travel, do you know that you could do it with a high percentage of accuracy with just a map and compass?


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Terrain association to the closest bench mark to your destinatiin, find your azimuth, track your distance with pace count. Man this is making me wanna hit the woods


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

My dad spent his entire career with the US Geological Survey as an engineer in cartography. He made sure I could read maps, navigate by stars, and determine directions by the signs of nature about as soon as I could walk. One of the many blessings passed on to me by my dad...and I've passed it on to all my children as well. I'm still amazed by how often these skills come in handy.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I was thinking about this question in a different way. Focus!

I have some ADD about many things in life, but there is something about driving that is very different for me. I am never driving anywhere and in the far left lane when I need to make a right turn in a block or two. The only time that would ever happen to me is if someone else is riding with me, getting a ride from me and at the last moment makes a decision to do something. Even when I am driving someone, I am about what my next turn is, how far, what, what, what.

I wish I was as focused in all of my life as I am when I drive. 

Maybe it is not a big deal in much of life, but in a SHTF situation, focus will be very important in getting from point A to point B.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

My favorite line from the movie Mountain Men with Charelton Heston and Brian Keith....

LOST! I ain't never been lost. A might confused for a week or two, but I ain't never been lost.


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## PawanVarma (Mar 17, 2011)

*What's a compass?*



Balls004 said:


> I agree with everyone that has an innate sense of direction through years of tromping through the woods or hunting or just was in Boy Scouts (did they teach this in Girl Scouts?) long enough to get in the neighborhood of where you want to go. How many here can navigate precisely enough to hit a waypoint or destination, on foot over a 15-50 mile unfamiliar route?
> 
> Neighborhood is good enough in some instances, but in some cases, you need to be within 20-50 meters of your destination. There are lot's of things that can cause you to miss your mark by miles. If you never get that far from home, great, you're lucky. But if you do have to travel, do you know that you could do it with a high percentage of accuracy with just a map and compass?


I hear what you are saying, but I'm unfortunately one of those people who couldn't navigate himself out of a paper bag with a compass. Show me a map first and tell me where to go, I could probably get there without the map in hand.

It's weird, I know. But I never understood how to read a compass. I'd love to learn at some point.

As far as GPS goes, I hate those things. They make you dependent. And worse, they make you depend on technology.

Most of the time, I find that my own instincts (after looking at a map) get me there faster and more reliably than GPS.

Good discussion. It's got me thinking more about the need to learn navigation skills.

Thanks everyone.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

*Celestial Navigation Returns to Naval Academy*

I read an article last month that said the US Navy was now requiring Cadets to take classes in celestial navigation again after years of not requiring it.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/10/14/celestial-navigation-returns-to-naval-academy.html


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

PawanVarma said:


> I hear what you are saying, but I'm unfortunately one of those people who couldn't navigate himself out of a paper bag with a compass. Show me a map first and tell me where to go, I could probably get there without the map in hand.
> 
> It's weird, I know. But I never understood how to read a compass. I'd love to learn at some point.
> 
> ...


It's not hard to do gross navigation with just a map and the sun or stars.

I live in Mississippi. I don't need a map or compass to hit Florida. But, if my destination is Yellowstone at Old Faithful geyser, I could literally spend years looking for it without being able to accurately navigate.

If land navigation without using GPS isn't in your bag of tools, you really need to add it. It isn't that hard to learn and it's easily passed along.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

there's one catch about getting a gps though.just like the one i have,some dont tell you when traffic is backed up.to when off/on ramps are closed due to road construction.to what ever else a person needs to know,while takeing a road trip,or what ever.so a person needs to window shop for the right one.one that fits their needs and wants in a gps.thats why i'll be getting the right one for me,soon as i have the needed money for a better one..


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

jimLE said:


> there's one catch about getting a gps though.just like the one i have,some dont tell you when traffic is backed up.to when off/on ramps are closed due to road construction.to what ever else a person needs to know,while takeing a road trip,or what ever.so a person needs to window shop for the right one.one that fits their needs and wants in a gps.thats why i'll be getting the right one for me,soon as i have the needed money for a better one..


If you have a smart phone, there is an app for that! It is called WAYZ (https://www.waze.com/). It will tell also tell you where there are other kinds of problems or challenges, such as accidents, road problems, and law enforcement.

I have had good luck with the GPS app on my smart phone. I prefer having a navigator, because I don't like to take my eyes off the road, but I drive many places with a GPS.

But I do have a used laptop bag in my trunk with maps and atlases.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Haven't been on the road for years now but in my traveling days I never left home without my trusty road map.
http://www.randmcnally.com/


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

Cotton said:


> Come on Timb&#8230; you're here the south, just teasing...  &#8230; In winter fireant beds rise in elevation, the top of the mound is shaped like the letter "D", the apex of the curve is where that nest gets the strongest sunlight. Grey squirrels build summer and winter nests, the summer nest will be on the northern side of the tree, away from prevailing winds&#8230; usually northeast side. Lets not forget the little cedar tree, Juniperus virginiana. They stand on fence lines all over the south... while pointing the way south with their limbs&#8230;
> ...


I had actually forgotten that about squirrel nests and cedars on fence lines (you do know how cedars on fence lines come about, right?  ). 
This thread made me remember using the stars from Boy Scouts. I need to go out one evening and see if I still can navigate by them (it has been a few years  ). 
Not a fan of GPSs though my wife (bless her heart) has a Garmin as she can't hardly read a map. It was about 10 yrs. ago that I noticed her turning her local street map book around and around (travelled in her job locally). When I asked what she was doing, she said something about figuring out where she was coming from. Something seemed off so I asked if she knew the top of the page was always north, just like a road map. She had the deer-in-the-headlights look when she said "No, I didn't".


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I grew up in a house that had a world map on the living room wall, a provincial map above the table in the kitchen. And a county map in the milk house, All of my siblings are good with maps , wonder why.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

i got a friendly reminder of how good i am,at tracking last night.a neighbor had shot a feral hog yesterday evening,just after dark...then he came over wanting my help at finding it,seeing how it ran off..well we did a pretty great job of tracking it.by the way of it's blood and tracks.but yet,we never found it.i must admit thoe.i did a better job of tracking it,then i thought i would.we followed it through a wooded area,across 2 or 3 little streams,around trees and all.then we went back the same way after we called it the night..


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Kids sent us to Branson Missouri (Osmond Family) for our wedding anniversary.

First flight was delayed twice and then canceled. Which made us late for the connecting flight to Springfield Airport (North of Branson). We arrived after dark and luggage didn't arrive with us (I had backed a GPS, wasn't going to pay car rental agency to rent one).

Used what the car agency called a map, headed south, found Branson and eventually the Hotel (no signage and buried in the center of a condo/retreat center. 

By the time the Luggage caught up with us (GPS) I had Branson figured out, just a long main street with a bunch of short up and down, over and around side streets.

Time to fly home. Put the address of the Springfield Airport in the GPS and off we go! Arrived at the Airport just as the morning sun came over the horizon. Something doesn't look right. It's a small airport but I'd think the parking lot would have more cars, no pedestrian traffic. No planes on the runways, Airport street signs confirmed the GPS directions. Hmmm.

Found one pedestrian. We was at the old terminal, we should be at the new terminal! That would explain why Expedia name was on the building!

Pedestrian, she started giving directions like I was born and raised local, so I had her point in the general direction direction and tell me how far. Made our flight.


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## Yeti-695 (Dec 15, 2015)

For what I do as a job, I can read topo maps really well. In fact when I recently moved to my new house, one of the first things I did was download all the topo maps around me. As far as acutally using it to land navigate I have never tried it. I need to one of these day, but I have a really good sence of direction for the most part.


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## Yeti-695 (Dec 15, 2015)

Not to break the thread, just had to mention this.

By the time the Luggage caught up with us (GPS) I had Branson figured out, just a long main street with a bunch of short up and down, over and around side streets.

Between my wife's family and mine we go there like 2-4 times sometimes more a year. I used to like it, but been there so much that its like a second home. I'm now exploring more of the places around Brason.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Before heading out on a big frozen over lake in the winter a quick glance at your compass is good. Once in a while the wind will come up and snow will fly while you are snug in a fish house. In a "white out" finding the right shore isn't always so easy.


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