# Do you secretly hope for the end of the world?



## puttster (Dec 23, 2013)

Newbie here. Watching Doomsday Preppers and reading survivalist forums. Got me wondering: Once you are all prepped for it, do you now wish for it to happen? 

I have insurance on my house but I still don't want it to burn down. Somehow though, being insured against TEOTWAWKI seems different, not sure why.

putts


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I'd rather be prepared for something to happen than not. I don't wish for TEOTWAWKI. I have a toddler and the last thing I want is for the world to turn upside down.

I prep for weather and local events that would be SHingTF for us.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Why would you wish for the death of millions of your fellow human beings? Who would want wide spread lawlessness? Children starving? 

Si vis pacem, para bellum (If you want peace, Prepare for war). The thing you'll notice about this forum, is that most of the people here are working towards being more self reliant. They are gardening, Canning, raising their own livestock for slaughter. 

Now do I think that something bad will happen? Yes, all Roads led to Rome well in this country all Roads led to Financial Collapse and a Police state. Just because you realize something is coming why would you wish for it to happen?

A for your consideration
War is delightful to those who have not yet experienced it." 
— Erasmus 
Those wishing for the End of the World, have no idea what they are wishing for. But if trouble must come, I pray it comes in my time and not my children's (when I have them).


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## LAROKE (Nov 20, 2013)

A sane person prepares for the worse and hopes for the best.


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Nope. I am no where near where I want to be if SHTF, and I will most likely always feel like that. There is always more skills to learn/perfect, equipment to aquire, food to store.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

TEOTWAWKI is different because a complete economic collapse is a 100% certainty due to the money printing by the Fed. 

I'd rather that it didn't happen but since I know it will happen, I want it to happen fast enough that we don't eat all our stored food before the collapse. But no, I don't want almost everyone I know to die. I don't want America to become a third world country where 90% of Americans die.

I'm concerned that the collapse will include major shocks to the US economy that will cause much more widespread unemployment and inflation than we have now.

Between now and when the power grids go down across the country I expect to see:

dollar devaluation of 25% or 30% overnight.
bank bail-ins.
unemployment of 40% or more
$10 a gallon gasoline, then $20, then $30, etc.
food prices doubling then tripling then going vertical

I expect these things to be caused by:

the loss of reserve currency status of the dollar
Saudi Arabia accepting other currencies besides dollars 
OPEC not accepting dollars as payment for oil
foreign trade partners not accepting dollars
Other countries dumping their treasuries and their dollars

I'm buying as much physical silver and gold as I can. I expect to need it to survive the period of time between now and the collapse.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> Do you secretly hope for the end of the world?


If you mean when Jesus comes back, then yes - yes I do. It's not even a secret, I publicly announce it.

But If you mean man $%#^&@* everything up and life becoming a constant struggle for survival, then no I don't.


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## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

Don't want the end of the world. Don't want people hurt or hungry.



Though it would be nice to not have to pay rent anymore


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

You prepare for the end of the world because then you are ready for lesser disasters. Illness or the loss of a job are personal disasters that each of us can expect at sometime in our life. We read about floods, tornadoes, and other regional disasters every year. Prepping when you are sure there is going to be a disaster is like putting on a seatbelt as soon as you realize you are going to have a vehicle accident, don't expect a good outcome. 

There are two types of fools, those that wish for a disaster and those that don't think it can happen to them.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> If you mean when Jesus comes back, then yes - yes I do. It's not even a secret, I publicly announce it.
> 
> But If you mean man $%#^&@* everything up and life becoming a constant struggle for survival, then no I don't.


Amen Brother...

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

I hope it never happen, but i am ready & will watch for that hour.
My stores are too small & my crop are young in the field.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Hell no.

The only thing I secretly hope for is to win the lottery.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If it must happen then I hope it is soon while I am still healthy enough to be a help to my children instead of a burden.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug (Jan 27, 2009)

yep................................


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## Plainsman (Nov 29, 2013)

All good comments, nothing I really disagree with. Only new thing I've got is that the preppers whom I know and who are wishing for a TEOTWAWKI event, are wishing for an escape from the problems they have now. Things like jobs they hate, marriages that were a mistake, stuff like that.

Just my opinion. For my part, when the economic collapse occurs and the coming police state probably initiates some kind of lawless public reaction, I'm betting that a lot of people are going to wish all they had to worry about was that lousy job.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Not me. I'm fairly well prepared, mostly with experience in producing most of our own food for the last ten years, including saving seed and so forth for propagation. But I don't like the thought of my kids and grandkids having to live in a TEOTWAWKI-type world. I want them to be able to buy chips and candy and pop if they want to, and go to college, and get married and have their own house and cars and vacations. I want them to be safe and prosperous. Not scraping to survive. To eat. To live.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Ever been ta a war zone? Don't thin many folks gonna like it much. We prepare fer many different reasons, some a em be storm related, man made an lord ferbid, the abosolute disaster. Ifin that happens, gonna be lots a folks gettina wake up call from h e double hockey sticks.

So no, I ain't lookin forward to er wishin fer the end a the world.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I would just like to see the world back before Vietnam, even pre Kennedys, to me that's when the world started going to hell, in the fifties, if you wanted a job there was one to be had. after Vietnam,75, everything started changing, the first family farms were going out of business and when they left, many businesses and local jobs went with them, feed stores, tractor & machinery dealerships, tire dealers and stores, repair shops and welders, cattle dealers and truckers, the family hardware stores, even some small factories that employed a few hundred people.
Everyone wanted a 40 hr per week job, two cars in the driveway,super stores of the day, IGA, First National, Grants, Zares, even Aims stores, then along came Walmarts , OSHA, the DEC, big government and wiped them, all out.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

Tacitus said:


> Hell no.
> 
> The only thing I secretly hope for is to win the lottery.


Me too, buddy. Momma got student loans that'll never be paid off!


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Not me. I'm fairly well prepared, mostly with experience in producing most of our own food for the last ten years, including saving seed and so forth for propagation. But I don't like the thought of my kids and grandkids having to live in a TEOTWAWKI-type world. I want them to be able to buy chips and candy and pop if they want to, and go to college, and get married and have their own house and cars and vacations. I* want them to be safe and prosperous. Not scraping to survive. To eat. To live*.


Sue, looking back, those days wasn't so bad, the biggest problem with todays living is that along with it comes a lot of debt.
there's more people scraping to survive today then there was back then. I can remember when there were maybe 2-3 families getting a welfare ck around here and back then they didn't get a car, phone and all the other entitlements that go with it ., today half the people around here are on welfare, food stamps, unemployment, SSI, or people that retired from the gov, state, county, ect in their early 50s with tax payers paying the tab, it's no wonder the country is circling the drain.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Yeah, whenever I have to do my taxes.


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

I'm surprised, in a good way! I expected to see something different when I opened this thread. This makes me proud to be a member.

There is another site I frequently FAR less than here, one of these threads was made and there was page after page of folks there saying "yes, bring it on". 

Being former military, seeing combat, 3rd world countries and doing humanitarian efforts I can 1000% say I never want anything to befall our country. You don't just get to turn a light switch back on and say ready for life to be normal again. It doesn't work that way.

I prep, because it is what I"ve been taught by depression aged grandparents, bomb shelter parents and watching Katrina make a mockery of our country. If I can do anything to stop that prior to it happening life becomes just that much easier after. 

Great thread.


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## bbrider (Sep 27, 2013)

When I look at my wife of 32 years and my three sons, I would hate for them to go through teotwawki. We don't have much, but sleeping in a soft bed and not in a bunker, taking a hot shower at night, not a sponge bath with cold water, these little things mean a lot. 
I lived on a homestead outside Soldotna, AK as a kid. We ate what we could grow, trap or shoot. There was very little store bought food in our house. After moving to WA in the mid 70's, we still grew a garden big enough to feed 5 for a year, 2 hogs, 1steer, chickens for eggs and meat, every year. We did all the canning, packaging and freezing at home. 
Trying to do all that work without power or running water, not to mention the extra chores that would suddenly become more labor intensive, while watching for the bad guys? NO THANKS! 
The funny thing is, we do all of this as a family, now. Not because we have to, but because I believe skills may be more important than stuff, if it comes to that.
Would I fight for my family and community? Absolutely. Do I look forward to? Absolutely not...

Sorry for the long winded reply. The idea that as "preppers" we are looking forward to everything going to *ell frustrates me to no end.

That is all.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Not at all. I love the life I have now & wish things would stay the same, but like the old saying goes, "the only thing that stays the same is change."


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

This is sort of a loaded question. 

Do I wish that things were vastly more simple and wholesome than the way they are today? That a person could improve their life by the sweat of their brow and a good work ethic? That family life were the center of the world, not celebrity status or the newest technological gadget? That strong morals and personal responsibility were the norm and not the exception in our society? 

Of course. 

Would I miss the (mostly) stable society that (at least pretends to) respect the rule of law? The medical advances which save innocent lives every day? The easy access to (arguably) clean and safe drinking water? The ability to turn on a computer or smart phone and instantly have an answer at my fingertips? The availability of books are opportunities to learn? 

Of course. 

I believe that, too often, people confuse the imagined result of a rebuilt society which rises from the ashes of a collapse with the reality of the struggle and strife required to get there. No sane person would wish for the end of the world as we know it. A "severe restructuring"? Perhaps. 

I would like to see a lot of things changed, drastically. I do not want the change itself, however, to be drastic; this implies a good deal of violence in the process. 

I have a baby on the way. I would like to work toward leaving the world a better place for my daughter, but I don't want her to be born into a war.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)




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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

Salekdarling said:


> Me too, buddy. Momma got student loans that'll never be paid off!


I sympathize, Salekdarling. I know what it's like to have debt. In my case, it was just $10,500 in student loans and another $5,000 in credit card debt. I understand a LOT of people are even MORE in debt!  Scary!

As for the OP, Oh, yeah, I ABSOLUTELY WANT there to be total TEOTWAWKI, so I can bow and scrape just to (barely) survive, and FORGET about thriving! Yeah, I wanna work for the rest of my life in complete and total MISERY on a farm!

NOT!!!

Can you tell I HATE farms?


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

Most days I work from daylight til dark. If I get sick, I can go to a doctor. If we're behind, and decide t just grab a bite to eat from Mc Donalds, we can. After work, I work in the garden, and in the fields, and work with my pigs.

It seems great to think about living like "Little House on the Prairie" But in reality, I would have to cut firewood everyday, by hand, just to keep up. The garden, pigs, and fields would mean life or death. A minor sickness or infection could mean life or death. Hiding in the dark at night, barely sleeping for fear of bad guys getting in. 

I prep to be able to do all of this and make a decent life for the grandkids, but it would be sooo much harder than I'm imagining.

I would, however, love it if the banking system would somehow forget all of the debt that I have accumulated. That is what I was hoping for when Y2K was supposed to happen. My debt is my own fault, but one of my "happy thoughts" about SHTF is the demise of bank records.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Reality vs Imagination*

Preppers who want to go back to "Happy Days":

People like to look back at their childhood and want to turn back the clock to those days. Who wouldn't ? Most people have fond memories of childhood because we remember the world as being simpler but it only seemed that way to us because we viewed it with children's eyes. A child is happy in his own home as long as he is fed ,loved, has a roof over his head and gets to play. Every thing else is an adult problem. Mom and Dad, remember it differently.

The Preppers who want an adventure:

I have had adventures. They are never that much fun while you are having them. Young men want to go to war because they have heard their fathers tell about battles, glory and victories. They never hear the stories from the men who didn't come home. They aren't there to tell them.

The "Great Depression"

In 1929 the stock market crashed and the country went into a great depression. It seems that we are on the verge of this happening again.
However it will not be the same as it was in 1929.

In 1929 there were only two billion people in the world. Today there are over seven billion people in the world.

In 1929, 83% of the U S population made their living in or associated with agriculture. Today only 2% of the U S population makes their living in agriculture.

In 1929 there were many hungry people in cities and some in the country but a majority of the population could grow enough food to survive. The majority of Americans do not know how to cook fresh produce or butcher an animal much less grow , hunt or raise animals for food. These are skill sets that are almost lost to the bulk of society . The worst time to attempt to reacquire them is during a world economic collapse, when mistakes result in crop failures or wasted resources.

Starvation, anarchy, pestilence and war are what the future hold. We will not step back into the 1800's, the 1930's or the 1950's.

No matter how well you prepare now, what is coming will be your worst nightmare. No one who lives through the coming collapse will escape unchanged or unscarred by it.

I pray it will be quick. I do not expect to survive it. I am to old. I no longer have the strength or stamina of youth. I pray my children survive and my grandchildren survive but this will only happen if the collapse is quick and there is a huge die off of the world population.

This will not be an adventure. It will be a near extinction event. We have built a house of cards and any stiff wind will blow it over.

History says it will happen. The Bible says it will happen. Simple mathematics, says it will happen.

We talk about "normalcy bias", as if only those who do not prepare are subject to it. In reality we are all subject to it, to some degree. With out it, there would be no hope. Without hope , no man can long endure. My hope is in the Lord. He is the rock of my salvation.

We are all guilty of normalcy bias to some degree, if we see this coming cataclysm, as a trip back to the horse and buggy days . What the world becomes will be very different than we imagine .

I pray to God Almighty that I am wrong . I want my children to have it better than I had it . Right now they do, however, I do not believe it is a sustainable world.

I apologize if my views have upset anyone . Only the Almighty knows the future but he admonishes us to look at the signs of the times.

Merry Christmas !


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I made a disparaging remark toward Mase92 and for that I apologize.

Steve


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## brightstar (Apr 24, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> You are a liar and/or a troll. You opened this thread under a new user name for what purpose? To test us? What an arrogant fool you are to open a thread hoping or expecting the people here to fall for your bait. Why? Did you think you'd be able to come back and post how pathetic and hopeless the members of this forum are? I guess the truth of the matter is that the people here are a much higher caliber than you! No one else here that I'm aware of would resort to deceptions like yours. Who are you to "test" the rest of us? You might be proud to be a member but I feel disgraced to have such a low-life scumbag such as you being able to post here. Cheers


I'm pretty sure he meant opened thread as in clicked to read the responses not that he started it. Such as I opened this thread to read what people said but I certainly didn't make the original post.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

brightstar said:


> I'm pretty sure he meant opened thread as in clicked to read the responses not that he started it. Such as I opened this thread to read what people said but I certainly didn't make the original post.


Thanks. Just got confirmation that he probably was not the original poster.

He has my apology.


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## puttster (Dec 23, 2013)

mosquitomountainman said:


> You are a liar and/or a troll. You opened this thread under a new user name for what purpose? To test us? What an arrogant fool you are to open a thread hoping or expecting the people here to fall for your bait. Why? Did you think you'd be able to come back and post how pathetic and hopeless the members of this forum are? I guess the truth of the matter is that the people here are a much higher caliber than you! No one else here that I'm aware of would resort to deceptions like yours. Who are you to "test" the rest of us? You might be proud to be a member but I feel disgraced to have such a low-life scumbag such as you being able to post here..


Holy smokes.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

puttster said:


> Holy smokes.


Now go back and read where the man appologized for it... ive done this same thing myself, its easy to get upset and start typing and miss whats really going on.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

BillM said:


> Preppers who want to go back to "Happy Days":
> 
> People like to look back at their childhood and want to turn back the clock to those days. Who wouldn't ? Most people have fond memories of childhood because we remember the world as being simpler but it only seemed that way to us because we viewed it with children's eyes. A child is happy in his own home as long as he is fed ,loved, has a roof over his head and gets to play. Every thing else is an adult problem. Mom and Dad, remember it differently.
> 
> ...


Good response and well written. I think the whole system is so corrupt and broken the only way to fix it is a complete breakdown and rebuild. You can't keep trying to patch a house that is riddled with termites. Especially when its the termites you expect to do the fixing.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I made a disparaging remark toward Mase92 and for that I apologize.
> 
> Steve


It takes a big man to admit when he has made a mistake!
Kudos.

:usaflag:


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

whoopsies...lol...


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Prepping for the worst is in no way indicative of wanting the worst.

Realistically, if the worst does happen, there will be at least some of my family that would perish, possibly including myself. Why would I want that?


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## puttster (Dec 23, 2013)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I made a disparaging remark toward Mase92 and for that I apologize.
> 
> Steve


I am the OP. What offended you, mosquitomountainman?


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

puttster said:


> I am the OP. What offended you, mosquitomountainman?


puttster, mmm was not talking about the content of your post, It was fine. He mistook what another member said, thinking that he was a troll that had been here recently and was very annoying. Keep in mind my friend that the folks here on P/S are real people with real lives, jobs, families and faults, and we all make mistakes. The best thing about P/S though, is that there is a real family atmosphere here where there are misunderstandings, hasty remarks, and hurt feelings, but also there is love, understanding, concern, friendship and forgiveness. All members here are great people, but what takes them from good people to great people is their ability to say I made a mistake and I apologize.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

I believe it was Abraham Lincoln who said, "...never post in anger on the internet..."

Okay, maybe he should have said it!


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

It would not be a pretty site considering that at least 95% of the worlds population wouldn't have a clue as to how to survive a total collapse of governments, good and bad, as those governments do afford some sort of stability even if it just a normalcy bias in peoples minds seeing things being done in somewhat of an orderly fashion. I will say in considering the writings of Edward Gibbons "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" which I read many years ago, we are certainly following a downward path very much like the Romans with some surprising parallels. They, as we are doing now, lost their moral compass at all levels. The old saying, "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." rings true. Now there are times I feel it would be good to have a reset, like maybe a major solar flare that sends us back to good old relay dial up. Back to writing letters and sending them through the "snail" mail system. Do we really need to be in constant touch? It almost seems like a modern form of idolatry with cell phones being bowed too. And before any say it, we wouldn't be having this great P&S either. Just my thoughts considering this posts title. But hey I'm 71 and I do remember the past, both the good and the bad times.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

In my (limited) experience, those who wish for TEOTWAWKI often have a non-sustainable 'plan', or lack thereof, for survival that ultimately falls back on less-than-savory, and just as unsustainable, methods (raiding). Now, I'll admit that I will feel a small amount of vindication ( artydance: )for enduring the small sacrifices of conveniences and the ridicule from others regarding my choices, but it will be overshadowed by the stark reality of the new paradigm. I also think it will be very short-lived when the holes in my preps kick me right in my smug complacency, I'm assuming all of my preps will only give me a marginal 'leg up' over most others, and maybe not even that much as I will more than likely (foolishly?) overextend myself trying to help close friends (most of which are currently ignorant of the extent of my preps... OPSEC!  ).


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## Plainsman (Nov 29, 2013)

Here's some Christmas morning, rambling free associating on this thread.

I'm 60 yrs old so I've got more yesterdays than tomorrows and that isn't so bad of a thing in 2013. If I lose what's left of my life, I can console myself that I've already had a pretty good run in an 'interesting' historical era. I grew up in the post WW-2 super power era and was in high school during the (..to me..) high point of USA pride with the moon landings.

Witnessing and participating in a declining empire is 'interesting' too.

Currently, my contribution to the future is my doomstead and building it up is the meaning of the afternoon and evening of my life.

I hope, plan and work for, another 25 years of active living....they should be really 'interesting' years to witness. I do not envy, and would not trade places with, the coming younger generations: rage at the older generations who ****ed up their inherited world with an insane economy and raped ecosystems as they probably will, I lucked out by living in the last decades of comfort, borrowed on credit from the kids' future.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Plainsman said:


> Here's some Christmas morning, rambling free associating on this thread.
> 
> I'm 60 yrs old so I've got more yesterdays than tomorrows and that isn't so bad of a thing in 2013. If I lose what's left of my life, I can console myself that I've already had a pretty good run in an 'interesting' historical era. I grew up in the post WW-2 super power era and was in high school during the (..to me..) high point of USA pride with the moon landings.
> 
> ...


I'm the same age, I agree, Trying to leave my kids with something just in case the world carries on. They will get mostly items I have prepped over the years. I'm sure there is a thread on what we will/want to pass on to our siblings, so I'll end....Merry Christmas


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

There is a few of us 60 year olds around. I grew up in Omaha.


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Thanks. Just got confirmation that he probably was not the original poster.
> 
> He has my apology.


I can say with 100% certainty, I was NOT the original poster. I should have said read, looked at this thread instead of "opened" it.

No harm, no foul. Thank you for the apology none the less!


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

BillM said:


> The Preppers who want an adventure:


"'Adventure' is being in trouble you don't know how to get out of."
- Richard Rahl, somewhere in the Sword of Truth series.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

adventure |adˈvenCHər | noun 
You know you are having an adventure when you would rather be home talking about the situation you are currently in.


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## bbrider (Sep 27, 2013)

If you survive, it's an adventure; if you don't, it's time a tragedy... that's what heard from my pap my whole life... ;-)


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## bbrider (Sep 27, 2013)

Time should be scratched...


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

bbrider said:


> Time should be scratched...


Hi BB, At the bottom right of your post there is an edit button. I use it to add, correct, or delete portions of my posts.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

bbrider said:


> If you survive, it's an adventure; if you don't, it's time a tragedy... that's what heard from my pap my whole life... ;-)


Well it's been a long, long time since I've heard of Yelm, Washington, been there one or two times when I was very young, probably back in the 50's or early 60's.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Nobody with good sense wants the collapse. Too many will suffer and die. But it becomes ever more obvious collapse is unavoidable and not far off. If there is any "good" to be seen in this, perhaps it's that collapse will happen before Government can fully implement the latest horrific developments in anti-crowd weapons, total surveillance and robotic warfare against the masses. 

Still, it will be horrible.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

puttster said:


> Newbie here: Once you are all prepped for it, do you now wish for it to happen?


I am not a sadist so I don't long for people to suffer,

Not a masochistic so I don't long to suffer.

And not crazy so I pray not to be put to the test.

That being said I am a student of history so I know it happens every few decades in varied places, that we are overdue, and that it, like a forest fire can be good for society.

I am not a heathen so I do not fear death.

I am not a materialist so I recognize the bittersweet utility of suffering.

And I am not unprepared so I fear it not.

Marana Tha, or in the intern thy will be done.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

My Dad was born at the end of World War One (1919). 

He lived thru the Great Depression, World War Two, Korean War, Cold War (Nuclear threat), Cuban missile crisis, Vietnam war, Carter's Depression and the begining of Obama's Administration.

During his life Federal Income tax started at 1% and at his death 15%

Marriage divorce went from almost unheard of to a little over 50%.

In 1919 abortion was considered murder, now over 1,000,000 abortions a year.

School Teachers were expected to teach the 3 R's, morals and be religious. 2011, no morals or religion and students can graduate without knowing the 3 R's.

I now wonder how many times Dad thought the end times were near or overdue for a reset?


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## puttster (Dec 23, 2013)

Padre said:


> II know that we are overdue, and that it, like a forest fire can be good for society.
> 
> I am not a heathen so I do not fear death.
> I am not a materialist so I recognize the bittersweet utility of suffering.
> And I am not unprepared so I fear it not.


Ahh! finally a customer!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

puttster said:


> Ahh! finally a customer!


You must have read Padre's post differently than I did.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Padre said:


> That being said I am a student of history so I know it happens every few decades in varied places, that we are overdue, and that it, like a forest fire can be good for society.


4th Turning... we are over due


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Padre said:


> I am not a sadist so I don't long for people to suffer,
> 
> Not a masochistic so I don't long to suffer.
> 
> ...


Hear hear!! Well said so I will copy your answer as my own.


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## bbrider (Sep 27, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Hi BB, At the bottom right of your post there is an edit button. I use it to add, correct, or delete portions of my posts.


Caribou, I am on my phone and do not see an edit button anywhere. Is there somewhere else on the mobile version I can look?


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

bbrider said:


> Caribou, I am on my phone and do not see an edit button anywhere. Is there somewhere else on the mobile version I can look?


If you are on a touchscreen phone, touch the bar where your name and avatar are located on the post you want to edit. 'Edit' should then pop up on the option screen along with quote, etc...


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Some people say the longer it is before the collapse the harder the fall will be. I have heard some compare it to an infection in your toe. You know you could stop the infection if you cut off the toe but it would hurt so you leave it and the infection goes to your foot. You know you should cut off your foot but it would hurt so you wait. Then it goes up your leg and your only option is to cut off the whole leg. Wouldn't it be better to lose a toe rather than the whole leg?


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## bbrider (Sep 27, 2013)

Lake Windsong said:


> If you are on a touchscreen phone, touch the bar where your name and avatar are located on the post you want to edit. 'Edit' should then pop up on the option screen along with quote, etc...


Look at that! Thanks Windsong!


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## hellrazor762 (May 20, 2012)

In response to the original post.....YES! **** this planet and everyone on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

In reality, no. But there be days, especially after fightin sumtin at work, traffic, dealin with idiots, that I'll sit in my chair an thin how funny the looks would be on the sheeples faces ifin there phone just went blank, there game system don't work, there car just sits there. No lights in the house. Nobody givin em a check ever month no more.

Damn there gonna have a rough time a it! Then I feel a bit better.

I try an not get super wrapped up in technology er such. I try an leave time ta escape taday an walk back inta yesterday. Might be rondevous, a walk in the woods, paddle the canoe somewhere, campin, fishin er such. 

If a major disaster happens, life gonna really change. There ain't gonna be no free time. Life will be all about work. I don't wish fer that.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> In reality, no.
> If a major disaster happens, life gonna really change. There ain't gonna be no free time. Life will be all about work. I don't wish fer that.


Quoted for truth!

Yes - the degenerates will kill themselves off over time, but it ain't gonna be like "gang-on-gang". A *LOT* of folks you wouldn't want to expire yet would get caught in the sandstorm. That would be bad.

In some ways, if TEOTWAWKI was "fast and furious" it would be less painful overall.... Kind of like ripping a band-aid off! Make the pain fast and short in duration so the relief can come....

If we get mired down in an economic pseudo-crisis where life just sucks A$$ for everyone, that would really stink. No one & nothing desires to die a slow, painful death.

WROL for a couple weeks would clean up a lot of scum fast.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> If a major disaster happens, life gonna really change. There ain't gonna be no free time. Life will be all about work. I don't wish fer that.


This is certainly something to really sit down and consider because a lot of us that think the we have all our ducks in a row may not have thought too deeply about this. It's not going to be a day at the beach, edge of a lake or on your favorite river bank. Sleep may be shift work for awhile and even then you may have to keep on instant standby.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

What's there to know? You just need a bunch of Beans, Band-aids, and Bullets.


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## hillobeans (May 17, 2012)

hellrazor762 said:


> In response to the original post.....YES! **** this planet and everyone on it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Sent from your iPhone using Survival Forum, eh?

Oh, the irony.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Viking said:


> This is certainly something to really sit down and consider because a lot of us that think the we have all our ducks in a row may not have thought too deeply about this. It's not going to be a day at the beach, edge of a lake or on your favorite river bank. Sleep may be shift work for awhile and even then you may have to keep on instant standby.


There are 2 Hikers.

Both are the same age, height, build, weight, physical strength and age.

Both are carrying backpacks with similar contents and each have a Glock 9mm in a cross-draw holster.

Both Hikers have their "ducks in a row".

It's been awhile and TEOTWAWKI has settled down quite a bit.

Both Hikers are walking down a old roadway, round a curve and spy the other Hiker walking towards them.

Both Hikers stop walking and reach under their coats to grip their handguns as they look for signs of an ambush.

Both Hikers determine the odds of an ambush are small and start walking slowly towards each other.

As Hiker #1 eyes scan the area he wonders what news Hiker #2 may have.

Hiker #1 wonders what type of morality Hiker #2 has. Life would be easier if they could team up.

The Hikers are getting closer to each other.

Hiker #1 continues to scan the area, maybe the other Hiker has some canned peaches he would be willing to trade for?

The Hikers are now about 50 feet apart and both stop walking.

Hiker #1, "Hi there! My name is..."

BOOM. BOOM. Hiker #2 has drawn his Glock and put two shots into Hiker's #1 chest.

Am I secretly looking forward to the end of the world? Sometimes.

But then I remember it would be very simple for a Hiker #2 to knock my ducks out of their row.

I'll just carry on, do the best I can and when the Lord returns, He'll set everything straight permanently.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

No problem if you are Hiker #2 (but a GLOCK come on).


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

hiwall said:


> No problem if you are Hiker #2 (but a GLOCK come on).


Should I change the Glock to a IWI Jericho?


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

hiwall said:


> No problem if you are Hiker #2 (but a GLOCK come on).


Hey! What's wrong with a Glock?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Toffee said:


> Hey! What's wrong with a Glock?


Made from recycled Tupperware?


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

TheLazyL said:


> Made from recycled Tupperware?


As are a number of others, including a Springfield SDM that I'm not the happiest to have bought. However, on the plus side, four 16 round magazines make for a lot of lead that could be sent down range.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Back to the OP...

Please.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*50 feet*



TheLazyL said:


> There are 2 Hikers.
> 
> Both are the same age, height, build, weight, physical strength and age.
> 
> ...


At 50 feet ? With a handgun ? The other hiker is wild Bill Hickok and you are already a dead man so it would not make much difference what you did.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

BillM said:


> At 50 feet ? With a handgun ? The other hiker is wild Bill Hickok and you are already a dead man so it would not make much difference what you did.


The last time I was at the range I put ALL 50 9MM shots through the silhouettes head at 50 feet. The body would be a lot easier. If the other person wasn't expecting to get shot at, he would not have time to move.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

There are several people who are near and dear to me that would no longer be alive in a SHTF world. They needed medical treatment that just wouldn't have been available.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tweto said:


> If the other person wasn't expecting to get shot at, he would not have time to move.


Very true.



Tweto said:


> The last time I was at the range I put ALL 50 9MM shots through the silhouettes head at 50 feet. The body would be a lot easier.


I can do the same with my CZ-75 and PT-92. 
I can't with a 1911.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> Do you secretly hope for the end of the world?


OK as I sit on my butt and write doomer fiction I often wish some of it were true. But I know that the fiction I write bears little similarity with how life would actually be if S really did HTF.
Once I wrote a story a little more on the factual side (or my guess of more factual) and some reviewers said they did not like it because they wanted 'happy endings' when reading a story.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

I don't understand this thing about the two hikers. Why would one shoot the other? If the shooter is that psychotic, wouldn't there be some kind of indicator? 

When the shooter is at a disadvantage by nature and will surely perish, wouldn't said shooter wish he had not shot the one person whom could now save him?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

VoorTrekker said:


> Why would one shoot the other? If the shooter is that psychotic, wouldn't there be some kind of indicator?


Not Necessarily.

Hiker #2 (the killer) also has NO IDEA if a sniper is covering hiker #1. 
If I were Hiker #1 I would want a buddy in the bushes before approaching Hiker #2...


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

In the OP, there were only two hikers, that's his example.
I need to understand why either hiker would need to shoot when they may be the only tow people for many miles. What am I missing?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

VoorTrekker said:


> I need to understand why either hiker would need to shoot when they may be the only tow people for many miles. What am I missing?


The only explanation is that hiker #2 is a sociopath and hates all humans,

and views all people as a threat regardless of whether they are a threat or not.

The point Lazy L is trying to make, is that you need to avoid anyone that can be a sociopath. 
That can be difficult to do. As humans, we tend to believe that everyone is basically good, most of the time.

TEOTWAWKI and WROL situations will make folks very leery of anyone they don't know.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

hiwall said:


> OK as I sit on my butt and write doomer fiction I often wish some of it were true. But I know that the fiction I write bears little similarity with how life would actually be if S really did HTF.
> Once I wrote a story a little more on the factual side (or my guess of more factual) and some reviewers said they did not like it because they wanted 'happy endings' when reading a story.


They had better suck it up and realize that when things do go bad "happy endings" will be the fiction, self survival will probably put the damper on the "people are basically good" feeling that a lot of people have come to believe. Perhaps it would be good to err on the side of caution, if not, your journey in the post SHTF era could be rather short.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

LincTex, got it. Caution is the better part of discretion and so is marksmanship.


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## Jewel (Sep 6, 2014)

"Do you secretly hope for the end of the world?"

Not at all. I love the world and hope it lasts forever.

But I do openly hope for the end of a corrupt and broken system. An end to a life of sloth, broken moral compasses, drones without values or goals, the incredible lack of hope - often due to misplaced values.


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## DCcam87 (Mar 4, 2013)

In a way I do, and in a way I don't. I think there needs to be a "mass extinction" event to take place. We as human beings need to hit the reset button and start over. However, I don't want to see massive loss of life.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

DCcam87 said:


> . We as human beings need to hit the reset button and start over.


There will be no "starting over" in sorts... 
all of the easy to mine copper ore is gone... 
so is all the easy iron ore... and the easy coal.. and the easy oil. 
These all take very modern equipment and techniques to make a usable product.

Take it all away, 
and once the "stuff" we have now (steel tools, copper wire, etc.) runs out...
there won't be a "starting over".


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> There will be no "starting over" in sorts...
> all of the easy to mine copper ore is gone...
> so is all the easy iron ore... and the easy coal.. and the easy oil.
> These all take very modern equipment and techniques to make a usable product.
> ...


We will still have a lot of knowledge to draw from but LT is absolutely correct. It will be a world in which salvaging things from the past will be come an art. Think 19th to early 20th century technology. There will be no silicone chips, transistors, smart phones, computers, etc. At least not for a long while.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

LincTex said:


> There will be no "starting over" in sorts...
> all of the easy to mine copper ore is gone...
> so is all the easy iron ore... and the easy coal.. and the easy oil.
> These all take very modern equipment and techniques to make a usable product.
> ...


I agree with yall on the resources. But, life should continue. Just down a different an more lengthy path.

Folks gonna be in the stone age fer a spell longer then the first time. Life generally finds a way.

It certainly ain't gonna be no fun.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Folks gonna be in the stone age fer a spell longer then the first time. It certainly ain't gonna be no fun.


I don't prep for stone age. I do prep for "Transition".

I keep enough gasoline preserved in propane tanks to keep the chainsaw running for ten years. I keep enough diesel stored so my compact utility tractor will keep the garden plowed for ten years. I know my lead-acid batteries in my solar system will likely not make it ten years, but oh well. That sucks.
.
.

During that period of time is when "learning new ways" will become paramount. The "transition" eases one lifestyle into another.
.
.
.


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## rhrobert (Apr 27, 2009)

Secretly hope? Nah, it's no secret, let it burn.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
but if we keep messing around with nature and the russians and the chinese who knows the big flash could be around the corner sooner than later.


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## Jewel (Sep 6, 2014)

With a simple hands on life now there will be less transitioning later. I know it's not for everyone but I believe it's worth trying. There's a different kind of power found in doing laundry by hand and chopping down a tree with an ax. 

No mistaking, it's cold here right now and I'm using an electric washer in the house but this is the back up, if the power fails it fails. My main system won't ever go down and I'm so used to using it it's natural. 

Chopping down a black walnut with an ax is no easy thing to be sure but if you drop the ax it's not likely to crawl up your leg and sever an artery and the sound of it doesn't vibrate in your head for the next 3 days. Of course with an ax you do need a warm tub to soak in and a big meal for you belly and a warm bed for several hours sleep, which will be sound sleep because you're so bloody tired.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Jewel said:


> With a simple hands on life now there will be less transitioning later. I know it's not for everyone but I believe it's worth trying. There's a different kind of power found in doing laundry by hand and chopping down a tree with an ax.
> 
> No mistaking, it's cold here right now and I'm using an electric washer in the house but this is the back up, if the power fails it fails. My main system won't ever go down and I'm so used to using it it's natural.
> 
> Chopping down a black walnut with an ax is no easy thing to be sure but if you drop the ax it's not likely to crawl up your leg and sever an artery and the sound of it doesn't vibrate in your head for the next 3 days. Of course with an ax you do need a warm tub to soak in and a big meal for you belly and a warm bed for several hours sleep, which will be sound sleep because you're so bloody tired.


Axes suck for cutting down trees over 12 inches in diameter. Get a good hand powered crosscut saw. I've had way more serious injuries from an ax than from my chain saw. But then, maybe I'm just a clutz.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper (Aug 15, 2014)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Axes suck for cutting down trees over 12 inches in diameter. Get a good hand powered crosscut saw. I've had way more serious injuries from an ax than from my chain saw. But then, maybe I'm just a clutz.


If it helps, I have knocked myself out chopping green poplar during the winter in freezing temperatures. The axe just bounces off like it was rubber and wam!! the back of it hits you between the eyes. Its always wise to count your thumbs when you are done as well. You don't always notice the damage when wearing heavy mitts.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I think we missed the point of Jewel's post, there is a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that you don't need the grid etc, and that homeowner chainsaws suck really bad Pro saw or no saw. (sorry I couldn't help it) 

Personally I will stay mechanized, I haven't spent a lifetime fixing other peoples junk to go back to the stone age if the grid crashes, I will however remember who was good to deal with before the fall.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Axes suck for cutting down trees over 12 inches in diameter. Get a good hand powered crosscut saw. I've had way more serious injuries from an ax than from my chain saw. But then, maybe I'm just a clutz.


I have a five foot crosscut saw that has tuttle teeth and it works great on hardwood trees it's pretty easy to use, I just cut a bunch of pickup bed length logs bring them home and put them in a saw buck and cut them to firewood length with my chainsaw but it wouldn't be too hard to use my three foot crosscut saw to do that if fuel got scarce. It certainly can be a very different world if we are not prepped for what may come, that's why it's a good idea to use old tech stuff fairly regularly so it's not such a shock when it comes down to having to use it on a full time basis. Especially in consideration that you may have to be in pretty good physical condition to use some of the old tech equipment.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> I think we missed the point of Jewel's post, there is a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that you don't need the grid etc, and that homeowner chainsaws suck really bad Pro saw or no saw. (sorry I couldn't help it)
> 
> Personally I will stay mechanized, I haven't spent a lifetime fixing other peoples junk to go back to the stone age if the grid crashes, I will however remember who was good to deal with before the fall.


I appreciated her point regarding the self-sufficiency aspect of her post. We have "traditional" means to do everything that needs to be done around here. a well.

Unfortunately, unless you've cut a lot of firewood you might not know that axes really suck for cutting the larger sizes of firewood and are just as dangerous as any chain saw. Plus they take a lot more energy and are noisier (possible security issue) than a cross-cut saw.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Today, I'm looking forward to a thinning of the herd. Stupid people have really been getting on my nerves lately.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> Stupid people have really been getting on my nerves lately.


Would those mostly be politicians?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Jewel said:


> Chopping down a black walnut with an ax is no easy thing to be sure but if you drop the ax it's not likely to crawl up your leg and sever an artery .


I can't say I have ever had a bad chainsaw accident. 
All of the ones I have are more modern (*LOL*, like late 1980's up to late 90's models) and the "chain brake" is a great invention.

I have, however - - had a bad ax injury.



Jewel said:


> and the sound of it doesn't vibrate in your head for the next 3 days. .


Hahaha! My first thought was "She doesn't own a Stihl"  

I know what you mean though... I used to cut wood with a McCulloch ProMac  



Tirediron said:


> ... "homeowner level" chainsaws *suck really bad* - "Pro saw or no saw". (sorry I couldn't help it) Personally I will stay mechanized, I haven't spent a lifetime fixing other peoples junk to go back to the stone age if the grid crashes, I will however remember who was good to deal with before the fall.


I agree with all of this... especially the "crappy" homeowner level chainsaw part, and "who was good to deal with"

There's a LOT of ways to keep machines going, if a person is creative.



mosquitomountainman said:


> I appreciated her point regarding the self-sufficiency aspect of her post. We have "traditional" means to do everything that needs to be done around here..


I do too... 
and I practice at times to keep my skills up, but I'm just not physically capable as I once was.

"Transition" to me means: "Teaching the young ones how to do the work of young folks" while us "mature" folks do more brain-work than back-work.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I look at transition in a different way. I think the transitional times will be very stressful because it will make us come to terms that things are not like they were and will never be again. Look at how many have a hard time transitioning from standard to daylight savings time. After a divorce there is often a transition time while people deal with emotional and financial issues. In a SHTF event there will be a period of adjustment or transition while people emotionally adapt to the new "normal." That's why the first paragraph of Jewel's post is so applicable. The more familiar we are with an "alternate lifestyle" the less emotional and physical trauma we'll need to overcome.

Those young people will have an even more difficult time than us "older" folks because their range of experiences is not as great. It will be easy to underestimate the emotional toll (stress, depression, etc.) it will take and how difficult it will be to overcome.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Nobody has more to lose in a collapse as a people than the people living on the North American continent. The world powers have to draw down our individual and collective wealth and influence as a people to force us into union with less wealthy/powerful nations. America will not be the seat of power in that creation. A world council of the UN would be.

So I publicly wish for an end of the world for the globalist initiative.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Thin a the emotional toll the first time some these young folk just gotta go ta the bathroom! Imagine the look on there faces when ya hand em some weeds an a shovel! I gotta do what! :eyebulge:


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

They'll do what they always do and blame us for their situation.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'm not looking forward to the end. No more dining out, electricity, hot showers, fresh fruit, or rule of law. I know so many good people from the church and the animal shelter who will die. Almost all the animals at the shelter will die. We have enough cat food to rescue 6 more cats but I can't imagine how 8 cats in one house would get along. I can't imagine selecting the 6 cats knowing that any I leave will be left to die. 

On the other hand, my food continues to get older. A lot of it is stuff I can't rotate or don't want to eat if I don't have to. I'm in my mid-50s. I'm a diabetic. I want the end to come before I become insulin dependent. 

I'm a Born Again Christian. My late first wife and our two stillborn children got to Heaven ahead of me. We live in a world that's becoming increasingly evil. I have no desire to live on this earth for another 25 years instead of going to Heaven. So from that standpoint, I hope the end comes quickly.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

8 cats can get long. We had 8 house cats at one time (down ta 5 now). They learn. Takin care the litter pan becomes a daily chore though.

Animals gonna suffer to as folk die off an they have ta fend fer themselves. Others just gonna toss em out cause they gonna be a hassle ta take care of.

I can imagine some will even do that with children. They just ain't gonna wanna be burdened with em. Sounds cruel, but we see it ta some extent already taday.

How do we plan fer all this? How do we deal with it when it happens? Hard questions an some a the answers gonna be hard to.


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## Jewel (Sep 6, 2014)

I guess it's just what you're used to and perspective. We've chopped down plenty of trees with a good ax. Cut down plenty with our old sears chainsaw. Never been hurt by either. They both have their usefulness but I'm not a financially rich person and have no disillusions of becoming one anytime soon. When the gas runs out there will be no more chainsaw. 

And, although we've never been hurt by either, I've seen first hand what a chainsaw can do to a leg and an arm and this was to people who had used them for years, experienced and careful. Accidents happen, mechanized or not, mechanized seems to do more damage in my experience.

My chainsaw came from a pawn shop around 20 years ago. No, it's not a stilh. But it surely beat cutting down a tree with my bare hands.

As for cutting down a green tree in freezing temperatures, I absolutely believe the ax bounced off! no offense at all but why would anyone do that?


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

In a true The End situation, you better shoot/kill every stray dog and cat you see. You CAN NOT compete with them for small game. Dogs and cats will survive after humans are gone. The time for caring over them is when you can afford it, and I don't mean 'financially' afford it.

My primary chain saw came from a pawn shop too. It's a Stihl and still has the $99.99 sticker on it. Can't pass that up. The reason it was that price was stated as being too old to have a primer bulb built in.  It doesn't need a primer bulb to push. It's an 026. Select CHOKE and push down on that lever a few times, pull it a few times. It starts.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

I did a google image search for douche bag. I don't really wish for the end of the world, but it would sure make my day to see these kinds of people go through a depression:


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

LincTex said:


> The only explanation is that hiker #2 is a sociopath and hates all humans,
> 
> and views all people as a threat regardless of whether they are a threat or not.
> 
> ...


while I haven't run through the whole thread yet, there is an error in your post, the shooter isn't a sociopath, they are a psychopath. The average Sociopath is not violent. They are typically the type of individual that is only out for themselves. A prime example, and this is likely to flip a lot of people out, is the average welfare recipient. They do not give a damn about others, would rather not have to deal with anyone else, and is threatened by the idea of taking responsibility for their actions. They are users of other people, and will act like a friend as long as they have something to gain. These are just a few aspects of a Sociopath. In fact Sociopaths make excellent CEO's and political leaders since they are natural deceivers and straight faced liars. Now the psychopath, on the other hand, is best described as someone totally lacking in any conscience what so ever, even to the point where it negatively impacts themselves. A sociopath is out for themself. A psychopath would injure themself , just to hurt others. They would kill the person that is keeping them alive and not feel any remorse, even though it would result in their own death (although many would realize this impact and the survival instinct would stop them, their willingness to do it is still there). I'm not saying all psychopaths are killers as there are degrees of the affliction. Most appear to be severe sociopaths. This is where the confusion comes in. Many psychopaths are misdiagnosed as sociopaths due to the fact that the two seem to be just a matter of degrees apart. However the reality is a Sociopath will not become a psychopath as they become more afflicted, where as a Psychopath will simply show more and more of the symptoms of what they are.

As an addendum, for sake of description, due to their actions in office, An apt comparison would be Joe Biden being a sociopath, and Obama with his disregard of human life being the psychopath. Now bear in mind, it may come out that idiot Joe could be as bad or worse, but thus far it hasn't been shown to be so. Further Socio and Psychopaths seem to compliment each other. Their personas don't conflict as they would with normal people. And two psychopaths would either end up in a power struggle or eventually out on a rampage, mad killing spree.


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## rhrobert (Apr 27, 2009)

What if they are a sociopath with psychopathic tendencies? Hmmm, sounds familiar...oh wait never mind, I'm not supposed to talk about that...


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

tsrwivey said:


> Today, I'm looking forward to a thinning of the herd. Stupid people have really been getting on my nerves lately.


I'm just looking forward to a purging of liberals, either through conversion or by other means.


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

BlueShoe said:


> Nobody has more to lose in a collapse as a people than the people living on the North American continent. The world powers have to draw down our individual and collective wealth and influence as a people to force us into union with less wealthy/powerful nations. America will not be the seat of power in that creation. A world council of the UN would be.
> 
> So I publicly wish for an end of the world for the globalist initiative.


We only have more to lose because we gained the most in the shortest amount of time. However it doesn't have anything to do with the UN. You neglect many things with that comment, such as the two seats the US holds in the UN, First we are a charter member, second we are a PERMANENT member of the Security Council, and then we are the primary military equipment supplier to the UN. We alone can cripple the UN like no other nation can. Were we to step out and stop supplying them, it would fall to Russia who cant even supply themselves with equipment...


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

rhrobert said:


> What if they are a sociopath with psychopathic tendencies? Hmmm, sounds familiar...oh wait never mind, I'm not supposed to talk about that...


they would be one or the other not both. You describe either a sociopath or a psychopath, the point between then is the psychopath has no conscience, and no compunction about killing what so ever. Anyone can kill given the correct set of circumstances for them, however, without this rationale, killing without guilt is the forte of the psychopath.

Many psychologists like to banter around the term " tendencies ". All this means is they haven't been able to give a solid and definitive diagnosis, and is almost always destroyed in court, under cross examination by any competent trial attorney. In actuality however, an individual you suggest is probably a psychopath that simply hasn't fully come out of their cocoon and is still internalizing the conflict they have due to moral values they were taught, yet do not feel. Jeffery Dahmer was a prime example of this, until he moved to Milwaukee. He had committed one murder in Ohio, and was conflicted, not over the killing, but over not feeling any guilt. 
Its a fascinating field of study. I got into it first as a means to bolster sales ability when I was in the corporate electronics arena and branched off into the criminal psych when it was touched on is the social psych courses. But man, you really need a strong stomach when you get into it,,, some of the things covered are down right sick


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

Coastal said:


> I did a google image search for douche bag. I don't really wish for the end of the world, but it would sure make my day to see these kinds of people go through a depression:


the problem is they have spent their entire life in an economic depression and don't know any different


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## dragon5126 (Nov 30, 2008)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I appreciated her point regarding the self-sufficiency aspect of her post. We have "traditional" means to do everything that needs to be done around here. a well.
> 
> Unfortunately, unless you've cut a lot of firewood you might not know that axes really suck for cutting the larger sizes of firewood and are just as dangerous as any chain saw. Plus they take a lot more energy and are noisier (possible security issue) than a cross-cut saw.


most people don't realize the axe only exists primarily to SPLIT wood. Yes mauls and wedges make it easier, but are single purpose, an axe can trim small branches easily and if you are full of energy take down small trees, but nothing is more efficient than a saw. I have multiple sizes of both as well as wedges and a couple mauls, I HATE cutting wood. but I hate freezing more


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Jewel said:


> I guess it's just what you're used to and perspective. We've chopped down plenty of trees with a good ax. Cut down plenty with our old sears chainsaw. Never been hurt by either. They both have their usefulness but I'm not a financially rich person and have no disillusions of becoming one anytime soon. When the gas runs out there will be no more chainsaw.
> 
> And, although we've never been hurt by either, I've seen first hand what a chainsaw can do to a leg and an arm and this was to people who had used them for years, experienced and careful. Accidents happen, mechanized or not, mechanized seems to do more damage in my experience.
> 
> ...


I was notching out a log for a small log cabin and my hatchet slipped. It cut through my leather gloves and basically slit my wrist. Took 13 stitches to sew it up. Cut through the artery but missed any important nerves. I also had an ax glance off a tree and nearly slice my foot. It cut through the leather boot and my sock and left a shallow cut across the top of my foot. Another half-inch and they'd have been sewing toes back on. My chainsaw accidents have never required stitches. I think people are more cautious when using a chainsaw because it scares them more. Most accidents with anything happen when we are fatigued or rushing. I try to avoid those two situations as much as I can anymore!

I bought my first professional saw about ten years ago. It's great! I still use my "homeowner" saws for smaller stuff and limbing. Most of my life I used non-professional saws. IME they just take a little longer. I've cut probably 100 cords of firewood using a McCullogh Mini-Mac. It still works great. I now keep it in the motorhome and use it when camping.

Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have to work with.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

dragon5126 said:


> We only have more to lose because we gained the most in the shortest amount of time. However it doesn't have anything to do with the UN. You neglect many things with that comment, such as the two seats the US holds in the UN, First we are a charter member, second we are a PERMANENT member of the Security Council, *and then we are the primary military equipment supplier to the UN.* We alone can cripple the UN like no other nation can. Were we to step out and stop supplying them, it would fall to Russia who cant even supply themselves with equipment...


It has nothing to do with the length of time we gained it in. Nothing at all. We have the farthest to fall. That is all. The US is the acting king of the world, though we're not actually the controlling body.

We can't get out of what we created. People don't realize it but we ARE the UN to the world. It's not some mystery organization. 
You need to understand who the UN is. So long as the USA is the most dominant nation in the world, WE'RE the UN. Your point of the military supplier is what I keep telling people about who is enforcing the UN agenda. It's the USA. We are the UN as far as military enforcement. What ever the UN is doing in the world is because the UN is enforcing it through it's military and economic engine. So we are the UN to everyone in the world. And they're almost right...until we're toppled.

However, there is zero chance of the USA dropping out. Never will that happen unless there is a destruction of the power structure in DC. And with the most powerful and wealthy people on Earth controlling DC and it's UN driven agenda, there is zero chance the USA doesn't come under increasing levels of UN control. Even a total collapse in US American economy will not change who controls DC. In fact that is probably the easiest way to control it.

Most everyone agree that the US Dollar will lose Reserve Currency status. When that happens the USA will begin it's path to becoming what France is with their permanent seat on the Security Council and veto vote. We will become a relic with nothing to offer but resources to feed the producing nations in Asia. The only thing we have to offer without a working military is resources to plunder.


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## Jewel (Sep 6, 2014)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I was notching out a log for a small log cabin and my hatchet slipped. It cut through my leather gloves and basically slit my wrist. Took 13 stitches to sew it up. Cut through the artery but missed any important nerves. I also had an ax glance off a tree and nearly slice my foot. It cut through the leather boot and my sock and left a shallow cut across the top of my foot. Another half-inch and they'd have been sewing toes back on. My chainsaw accidents have never required stitches.


I'm sorry to hear it. I know first hand what that's like but it was a heavy glass bowl I washing and I didn't have stitches. Should have but didn't. Accidents happen, plain and simple.

"I think people are more cautious when using a chainsaw because it scares them more. Most accidents with anything happen when we are fatigued or rushing. I try to avoid those two situations as much as I can anymore! "

Maybe on the chainsaws but I've known about the same amount to be hurt by ax or chainsaw. I agree completely on the rest though and that will be compounded in any Event.

"Sometimes you just have to make do with what you have to work with."

That is the absolute truth of it.

On the cutting firewood with an ax, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Anything is possible but having used an ax for years I doubt it would be easy or safe. Probably a lot of being hit in the face with flying firewood. We use an ax to cut down trees about our size or small and to split firewood. We use a saw to cut firewood and a chainsaw to cut what we can't reasonably get with ax or saw.

What I was meaning in the first was that I believe folks who learn the old lowtech/notech ways will have a bit of a head start over other folk. And I believe it's very important to teach these ways to our children and younger people.

During and after Sandy, there were literally people who didn't know how to feed themselves with the local deli and street vendors shut down. I think they would have figured it out eventually. but that could mean figuring out how to take from others instead of do for themselves.

In the end, whatever that end may be, humans will always be the most dangerous things.

Sorry for getting off the original. It's a good thread and good for getting folks thinking


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## tc556guy (Apr 28, 2011)

No. There are many benefits to modern society that I'd prefer to not lose.
I've been in the Third World with no creature comforts.
I'm fine with planning for the inevitable temporary glitches that society can throw at you.
99% of society doesn't even plan for that, or assumes that the gov't will be there to help you if something bad does happen.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BillS said:


> I'm not looking forward to the end. No more ... electricity, hot showers, .


I have no worries there. 
I don't need grid electricity and have a wood-fired water heater.



BillS said:


> We live in a world that's becoming increasingly evil. I have no desire to live on this earth for another 25 years instead of going to Heaven. So from that standpoint, I hope the end comes quickly.


I often think the same: Jesus can take me anytime He sees fit to.....


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BlueShoe said:


> In a true The End situation, you better shoot/kill every stray dog and cat you see. You CAN NOT compete with them for small game. The time for caring over them is when you can afford it, and I don't mean 'financially' afford it...


I agree 100%. 
I'll eat them, too - and not even have the slightest hesitation doing so.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

*"Do you secretly hope for the end of the world?"*

Some days more than others.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Coastal said:


> I did a google image search for douche bag.


THAT is freakin' hilarious!!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

dragon5126 said:


> most people don't realize the axe only exists primarily to SPLIT wood.


Sorry, no - - or else it wouldn't be called a "Felling Axe"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe



> Felling axe:
> Cuts across the grain of wood, as in the felling of trees.
> In single or double bit (the bit is the cutting edge of the head) forms and many different weights, shapes, handle types and cutting geometries to match the characteristics of the material being cut. More so than with for instance a splitting axe, the bit of a felling axe needs to be very sharp, to be able to efficiently cut the fibers.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> My chainsaw accidents have never required stitches. I think people are more cautious when using a chainsaw because it scares them more. Most accidents with anything happen when we are fatigued or rushing. I try to avoid those two situations as much as I can anymore!


For me, it's an issue of "Force".
"Force" is NOT required when using a chainsaw! 
If I have to use "force", then it's time to sharpen the chain... a LONG time ago!

However, when I am using a cutting tool like an axe, I use FULL FORCE on each swing/blow. The energy MUST go somewhere - into either cutting or splitting the wood fibers, or off in another direction. 
"Another direction" is what can cause bad injuries - usually dealt at full force!



mosquitomountainman said:


> I still use my "homeowner" saws for smaller stuff and limbing. Most of my life I used non-professional saws. IME they just take a little longer.


True. 
I do like to at least lean towards quality more. I once had a 42cc Poulan Pro that ran fine, but just wouldn't keep the chain on. I'm not a mechanical idiot - so I tried to troubleshoot the problem. The best cause I could determine is the mold used to inject the plastic around the bar studs was off a little bit, causing alignment problems. 
All in all, I made sure it left my home. I replaced it with a nice, used Husqvarna 41 (not a "pro" saw). Same weight - easier to find parts - Much happier.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Had a poulan once. Ran bout 6 times an it blew up. Weren't even a decent boat anchor!


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