# bug out or bug in



## ckpettit (Jul 5, 2012)

I am still kinda new to the forum here and i would like some tips from people that have been doing this for a while.
what's better to bug out or to bug in ?
What are the pros and cons?
If bug out what to take and pack?
And if bug in what to stockpile?
Any help and info would be great thanks.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

You r asking for a lot of info for one question. My answer is METTC dependendent. Read the site for awhile, break musings into small questions, and have some fun with a little urgency behind it. I started by spending an extra $10 at the grocery store on rice, beans, and chicken stock everytime I went. It added up quickly and the rest steam rolled from there.
METTC dependent is military term that means it depends on mission, equipment, time, terrain, and casualties. Turned into general term meaning it depends on the situation and what you are workin with. Welcome. There is a lot to learn here.
Note:
Think backpack with get home gear then start thinkin bug out or bug in. Ex if you r stuck at work without a ride what would you need to walk home. Then think how would I survive in my home for 3 days without power, water or groceries. Thats a good place to start.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well it mostly depends on your location and needs. My current location is quite good. There are no hurricanes or earthquakes to worry about. The only weather / natural disaster is tornadoes and they are very rare in my area. Add to the fact I have 2 tiny kids that won't survive long on the road and its a bug in plan for me. Which is nice cause I can stock up my supplies here instead of another location where I'm not at. It would totally suck to get to your bug out location and find out you've been ransacked! I decided that it would be far nicer to sleep in my own bed instead of a sleeping bag under a tarp in the woods. So assess your location. Can you grow food and have room for chickens and small animals? Any water nearby? Hopefully not stuck in the heart of a crowded city sitting on a fault line next to an ocean like say the 15 million or so in So Cal!! Nope, decide your best plan now and prepare accordingly.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

ckpettit said:


> I am still kinda new to the forum here and i would like some tips from people that have been doing this for a while.
> what's better to bug out or to bug in ?
> What are the pros and cons?
> If bug out what to take and pack?
> ...


It depends on where you live and what you're preparing for. To me the most certain event to prepare for is the collapse of the dollar and a complete economic collapse. You should have food and water, guns and ammo. A way to cook your food and heat your home. Some type of toilet. We have snap-on toilet seats, five gallon buckets, garbage bags to line them, and kitty litter to cover the smell. Most people like burning wood. We have kerosene heaters, kerosene stoves, and kerosene. You can buy kerosene cooking stoves here:

http://www.stpaulmercantile.com/

We bought a lot of canned goods. You can't buy canned hamburger so we bought canned chicken at Wal-Mart. We'll use that to make chili and hamburger helper. We bought a lot of baked beans, rice, 1 pound canned hams, Dinty Moore Beef Stew, hundreds of cans of Campbell soup, canned fruit, canned vegies. We have a lot of instant oatmeal of various kinds along with a lot of dry cereal like Cheerios. Stuff you can eat without milk.

We're prepping for 4 cats. Based on estimates at petmd.com we're going with 1 pound of cat food per week per cat. That's about 200 pounds of dry food plus one can of wet food per day so that's 360 cans. That's a year's worth of food or more.

We have Mossberg Bantam 500 shotguns for home protection. They can fire bird shot or slugs. I like shotguns better than handguns because I think it's easier to fire multiple shots accurately with a shotgun.

It makes sense to bug out if you live in a big city or the suburbs. After the collapse there will be desperate, hungry people going door to door looking for food. I wouldn't live in Skokie, Illinois for the next 5 years for any amount of money. You shouldn't bug out unless you have a place to go with stuff already stored there. Leaving Chicago with a truck full of stuff with no food and no destination isn't a good bug out plan.

That's just a few things. I suggest you take some time and look through all the threads for whatever information that you need. I'm one of those people who think that a complete economic collapse is coming this fall so if I were you I'd get as prepared as you can as quickly as you can.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Remember if you decide that you are going to have to bug out, limit your bug-out food supply to light weight items. Canned goods are quite heavy. A steady water supply is that factor that most have to consider when making the bug in-out decision. People used alot of water and it is very heavy if your bug-in plan is to bring it from a source that is a ways away. Carrying 5 gallon buckets of water very far will make it seem alot farther away than it really is. Plus transporting water daily could put you at risk from bad guys.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Ah the perennial question asked and answered LITERALLY thousands of times on this page!!!

The REAL answer is (as has been noted above): IT DEPENDS.

The SHTF is a relative term. Loosing your job could be a SHTF situation, as could a home fire. Bug in for the first, and out for the second.

One of the first things you should do is think about why you are prepping, from small picture (job lose or fire) to regional events (i.e. Hurricane Katrina) to national or global big picture events (called by many THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT or TEOTWAWKI). For every type of event you need to ask two questions: would my house be a safe place to be? if not where would I go (that was safer)?

Bugging in is ideal if possible, because you live there. 



While this might seem obvious what I mean is that unlike a far off retreat every day you come home to your house, which means you can prep every day, stockpile in this location, train, erect defenses, and provide security. You don't need to move your stuff if the SHTF, and you don't have to expose you or your family to the road; its the ultimate home field advantage, unless... its burnt to the ground, overwhelmed by looters, flooded, or otherwise destroyed.

Bugging out makes you a REFUGEE (and yes "you don't want to live like a refugee"), and should be avoided at all cost if you have no place to go. 



 But even for those who have no place to go, a FEMA refugee camp is better than a body bag. If your home is not a viable option perhaps because of a natural disaster, or because (like me) you live too close to a nuclear reactor, then bugging out may not just be an option but necessary.

Many of us would love to live in the middle of no where but because jobs tend to be found where the people are we live in a high population density area that could not sustain the current population without our transportation infrastructure. If you can afford a survival retreat in a more viable area, "bugging out" becomes "bugging out to" meaning that you are abandoning your regular home in favor of a secondary home/property where you plan to "bug in." This still presents the question of getting there, and the dangers of the road, but if you can get to your retreat, "bugging out to" or what the army calls a strategic retreat allows you to choose the strongest possible position to make your stand. Personally for those who can't afford to live in the middle of no where, or like me control where I live at all, bugging out to a ideal location is the best option for a serious SHTF situation. The trick to a good bug out is timeliness. Bugging out just before the SHTF, rather than once it does and is gratuitously splattering back to earth is the key to a good "Bug Out To"


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

God things already been said..
I believe that unless you are thretaened by Fire or a huge flood, Buggin in is better.
Also called "shelter in place"

So before you decide t Bug out conduct arisk-benefit analyssis.

Even if hUrricane is coming.. depending on where you house it..
if its on a hill , you would often be safer in staying put than leaving too late and being stuck on the hiways when it hits.. just as one example.
If its a low liying house.. pay attenion to the weather reports and leave before most other people do..so your not stuck on the hiways


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> Go[o]d things already been said..
> I believe that unless you are thretaened by Fire or a huge flood, Buggin in is better.
> Also called "shelter in place"
> 
> So before you decide t Bug out conduct arisk-benefit analyssis.


Definitely agree that you shouldn't but out gratuitously BUT I wouldn't limit bugging out to fire or flood, i.e. to the house being destroyed. In a serious SHTF situation, read a long term situation, living in an area that can't sustain its population by farming is probably a good reason to bug out and bug out early. Even if you have ten years of food lots of angry starving people sounds like reason to bug out if you have someplace to go.


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## Anvilandhammer (Apr 12, 2012)

The only problem I have with bugging out is it can't be a long term situation. Bugging out to the country side is great, but what about things that can't be packed or trailered out? I doubt many people have hand saws or drills or sufficient seed supplies or buckets, etc etc. Granted, I know that people can survive just fine on bare minimum. But for how long.? I've seen Dick Prenoeke do some amazing things with next to nothing, but even he had to get things flown in for him.
But I digress. So for example, after being bugged out for say two or more weeks and it's getting grim. Where will you go? Home I imagine or someone else's. Hopefully you have stuff cached somewhere. This is what makes me prefer bugging in.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*Bugging out to???*



Anvilandhammer said:


> The only problem I have with bugging out is it can't be a long term situation. Bugging out to the country side is great, but what about things that can't be packed or trailered out?


I think one point of disagreement in this longstanding debate are two versions of bugging out. Bugging out to the country to live in a tent VS bugging out to a pre-prepared house or cabin or bunker in the country.

For me I have most of the stuff I would need at my cabin in the country. Sure there are lots of supplies food, guns, equipment, etc. that I hope to be able to haul out to the country if the need arises, but most everything I need is in place already.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Prepping is as much mental as it is physical. Bugging in or out is a call you have to make at a particular time. You weigh the options evaluate the situation and make the call. Before the time to make the call comes you prepare mentally, physically, logistically, and economically as best you can. How and to what extent you do those depends on your situation, location and what you believe to be the greatest risks to you. The better you prepare the more and better your options.

Good luck


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

A tent will fail for long term. Nylon degrades in the sun and elements. But a tent is very useful if on the move to a more permanent location. 
Whether to bug in or bug out really depends on the situation. We would bug out to our BOL as it has a good well and septic a nice creek and is in a pretty defensible place. Where we are now has public sewer, which will fail after the power for the pumps has been gone for a while and a much more dense population.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

BillS said:


> It depends on where you live and what you're preparing for. To me the most certain event to prepare for is the collapse of the dollar and a complete economic collapse.


I have to agree. For me, where I live puts me in quite a difficult situation. My house is about 35' from one of the few main roads in the area. If I was to bug in for an extended period, it would only be a matter of time before we were next on the list for looters. I bring home, after alimony and child support, a mere pittance. with that said, a BOL somewhere else is completely impossible.

My decision is to stock up on canned goods, dehydrate my own veggies and fruits, smoke/jerk all the meat I can. I keep food stuffs on shelving in the basement (nice and cool). Bugout bags are loaded and ready, mostly.

If SHTF, I expect to have time to load up all my crap and head to a location that is within 7 miles of home. It's about 7,000 acres with a large lake with river feeding it. I will stay there for as long as needed till the brunt of the nastiness is over.

Of course, all plans are fine until things start to happen and then it's chaos.


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Bug in for me. Have moved to a rural area on high ground. If we were still in the burbs it would be a bug out situation. I can now grow food, have rain barrells, and surrounded by open land for a few miles so we can see and hear what's coming.


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## ilovetigger (Aug 10, 2011)

We are kinda stuck bugging in but............Are working on a possible plan #2 for bug out with 2 other couples all proficient in varied skills and weaponry.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

ilovetigger said:


> We are kinda stuck bugging in but............Are working on a possible plan #2 for bug out with 2 other couples all proficient in varied skills and weaponry.


You're smart

Always have a Plan B................and a Plan C.......


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

ckpettit said:


> If bug out what to take and pack?
> And if bug in what to stockpile?
> Any help and info would be great thanks.


Well, you stockpile EVERYTHING you might need, because you may not be able to get it once the SHTF. Here is my top ten list of general types of things you should stockpile:

1) Shelter--your home, or a tent/tarp if you might need to bug out. 
2) Water--and/or filtration and collection. Won't survive 3 days without it...
3) Weapons--for hunting and self-defense
4) Food--you could go three weeks without it, and most likely hunt and gather if you didn't have it. What types? Primarily foods that will store for 10+ years, plenty of threads about food storage and canning.
5) Fuels and/or alternative power sources--for any sort of motor you might want to power, gas is most used but least friendly to long term storage, I like propane, and for all the gadgets that make our life so much more easy.
6) Tools, for farming logging, building, etc.
7) Drugs--might not need them, but modern drugs have GREATLY reduced mortality rates, and since you likely won't find them post SHTF, you may want a stockpile, this of course goes to priority 1 if you are dependent on a drug to survive. Along with this a good trauma bag.
8) Farming supplies, seeds, etc.
9) Gas Masks, Protective Clothing, life-saving equipment
10) Clothing and Toiletries

In case of bug out weight becomes an issue. Also you need to consider how you will be bugging out: vehicle? bike? ATV? boat? on foot? As a rule of thumb you should have a Bug out Bag that gives you 72 hours worth of priorities 1-4. Herein lies the problem as priority 2 water is very heavy... My top ten list is prioritized in terms of importance (which of course may change based on your personal situation: in a plague gas masks may be priority 1), BUT when bugging out you really need to take as much of these things as possible, based on space, and weight. Drugs for instance may be less important than water, but as they weigh less you would want to take them even if you can't take 72 hours of water.... You need to prioritize. The one item that I think is essential if you are leaving with any supplies is WEAPONS. They are not as essential as shelter and water in terms of physical needs, but in case of a SHTF and the breakdown of the rule of law, being able to protect your supplies will be essential.

The difficulty and danger of SCHLEPPING all your stuff is the reason why bug-in is IDEAL (WHEN POSSIBLE) and the reason why a bug-out retreat where you can pre-position supplies, and caches along your likely bug-out routes are important secondary considerations for the prepper.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

ckpettit said:


> I am still kinda new to the forum here and i would like some tips from people that have been doing this for a while.
> what's better to bug out or to bug in ?
> What are the pros and cons?
> If bug out what to take and pack?
> ...


In my situation my first plan is to bug in. We are currently taking care of older family. These older folks are between 85 and 90. Transporting them, their drugs and assistance machines would be a chore at best. My wife has been ravaged by chemo treatments and her physical limitations (presently) would preclude a major "bug out". However we do have a plan for a bug out if the local situation dictates.

My children from my first family are all within 50 miles of me. Temporary food and equipment is stored at their homes (intrest on the loan for my labor in helping them get started in their homes) but food and water purifacation abilities will limit our "hoarde" to about three weeks at any one location.

I have a cabin "up north" but do not have a decent generator at that location to power some of the medical equipment 24/7 for an extended period. My folks and her mom are more important to us than words can express. I will not abandon the weak, elderly or infirm. I will stand my ground until my last gasp of air.

We have plans from A to Z but I can't see any one plan that is better than any other. We have played the game: "What If?" often and with every answer we discover another question. I have food, water purifacation methodologies, medicines and tools at every possible location but if anything is long term our only solution is to stay at home or return to home as soon as possible.

If it were only me.......I would bug out.......nix that.....bug in........nix that.......go somewhere.........nix that........go elsewhere...........I am vey confused now.

All this to say: Have a lot of small plans, procedures and equipment and water purifacation methodologies. Whatever the situation is that arises....Think, evaluate and then act. Be as ready as you can for each and every scenario that you can think of. Too many people are so darn sure that "x" will occur that they forget about y and z. Do not panic. Panic has killed more people than any other human failing.

Learn as many skills as you possibly can. Your "value" goes up with each skill, trade or ability you have. Keep water or water purifacation capabilities on hand, keep food (boring simple foods like rice and beans) will tide you over during the lean times and have lots of tools and the knowledge to use them. All grandious plans have failed throughout history because of arrogance, or worse, due to the inability to adapt, inovate and overcome small hurdles.

Relax and enjoy the road to preparedness. With each small increase in your abilities to clothe, shelter and feed your loved ones you will be rewarded with a great sense of satisfaction. Some of us are ahead of you, some of us are behind you. Act on information.....Do not react to stimuli.

You are not new to this. Being on this forum shows that you have already taken the needed steps to preparedness. You will not just survive....you will THRIVE in any situation that presents itself. Asking the question demonstrates that you have the mettle needed to best any situation.

Tugs


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

ckpettit said:


> I am still kinda new to the forum here and i would like some tips from people that have been doing this for a while.
> what's better to bug out or to bug in ?


IMHO those who prep by storing food and supplies will eventually run out
After over a decade at building a self sustaining homestead, I think those who plan to bug out to some remote BOL after SHTF to become self sustaining living off of the land will find that it is a far more difficult task than they imagine.
Raiding Rambo's life expectancy will be far shorter than they imagine.

What we did was move to a remote location with the goal of becoming self sustaining where we could be safe and secure no matter what happens in the world around us. To us that is the ideal because it affords us the opportunity to develop an satisfying rewarding way of living that really makes whether or not SHTF irrelevant, to our way of life. But this way of life is not for everyone. Many can not imagine life away from sirens traffic and a shopping mall within a few blocks. Others are not willing to make the sacrifices needed to live off grid or in a wilderness area or for whatever other reason ours is not a way of life that is appealing to them.

So IMHO bugging out now to live in your BOL while there is still time is what is working for us.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

LongRider said:


> IMHO those who prep by storing food and supplies will eventually run out
> After over a decade at building a self sustaining homestead, I think those who plan to bug out to some remote BOL after SHTF to become self sustaining living off of the land will find that it is a far more difficult task than they imagine.


I agree 100%, but long term self sustaining is but one portion of SHTF survival. I put SHTF situations and survival into 3 different groups.

1 the event and surviving it. This could be anything from a storm to a nuke attack. are you prepared to survive the event. and yes living out in the middle of nowhere helps on a large number of these events but not all.

2 the post event occurance, ie the economic collapse or the mass/die off, here is where I see most of the violence and the mass die off happening, can you make it through, here the location can have a big effect. for example if you live on a mt in Montana and the Yellowstone volcano blows well being the most prepared person in the world may not help.

3 the long term rebuild. when we revert to a 1880's ag society can you and do you have the skills to make it.

So yes a years worth of food is great if phase 2 is long but you are correct it will not last forever, but depending on what the event is phase 2 may be short, ie katrina and phase 3 may not happen. or if phase 1 is so bad phase 2 and 3 may be mute. not one area is more important that the other but I see phase 3 as depending alot more on knowldge and skill set. but you have to survive to use those skills


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

lefty said:


> I agree 100%, but long term self sustaining is but one portion of SHTF survival. I put SHTF situations and survival into 3 different groups.


Good points in all three steps I see location as being the primary answer. Maps are available for what areas are least vulnerable to nuke attack and subsequent fall out. That helps with determining what areas are also pandemic resistance. You will also need to consider proximity to large populations. The more isolated the better, IMO. The larger the population the more susceptible to disease. and yeah probably should not build along a fault line or on a volcano.

Look for land that is not easily accessible, has water is fertile and and build where the landscape aids in its defense and thee are abundant natural resources. Learn about them utilize them.

Don't get me wrong about stores no matter how adapt and self sustaining we become we can still have bad years. Crops may fall short hunting gathering is not as productive as we would like. There is a reason our forefather stock piled, as we become more and more self sustaining our stores are increasingly from what we produce grow and preserve. Of course we stock pile those thing that will no longer be available once SHTF. I mean what good is it to survive the holocaust if you can not on the deck watching the sunset savoring a good single malt, once the dust settles.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I'm bugging in. All my preps are here. My gardens, livestock, friends, church, etc is here.


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## Vel454 (Jul 29, 2012)

Unless you live in a high-risk area (large population center, nuclear facility, prime terrorist targets, etc) bugging in is almost always the best route. You have now until the SHTF to prep your location. Stocking up on food, water, consumables, critical gear, etc. Not to mention setting up crops, livestock, solar, or whatever else you feel the need to do. Also, your neighbors can either be your biggest threat or your best ally. If you live in any but the worst areas, you should be on good terms with your neighbors and be willing and able to assist them and vise versa. Survival is very much a group effort and with bugging-in, you have the ability to create a bond with them and your area... Bugging out... while you may pick a safe place to go, there are a lot of X factors.

A friend of mine on another site said his bug-out plan is a tall warehouse in his neighborhood... How many other people have the same idea? Realistically, how much can you prep your bug-out location? In his case - he didn't own the warehouse so could do no prepping at the site. He would be stuck with whatever he can carry on his back, which isn't much.

Best advice I could give - would be to take a look at the realistic threats to your region. If there are no safe locations in the immediate area that you could go to, to escape those dangers, consider moving after some further research.

Not to mention, what if your injured or any number of other issues that would prevent you from traveling to your BOL? Your home is where your at. I would rather already be at my 'location' when SHTF instead of having to rush off to my sanctuary, hoping I even make it there. I have a GHB (Get-Home-Bag) that I take with me to work. It is all the supplies I believe I'd need to get home on-foot from my work (7 miles). I have no interest in putting a BOB together for the above reasons. I only hope I can get home if SHTF, if I'm not already there.


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## Vel454 (Jul 29, 2012)

kejmack said:


> I'm bugging in. All my preps are here. My gardens, livestock, friends, church, etc is here.


+1 Exactly.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I'm bugging in. All my preps are here. My gardens, livestock, friends, church, etc is here.


agreeed, mo ;ivestock but the garden and water. Unless you have to bug out IMO it isthe last resort ie you are overrun, flood or radiation or mobs force you out. Because whne you grab your bob and head out you just became a refugee. You BOB no matter how good can only last a short time


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