# New Questions (HELP)



## jpadams (Sep 7, 2012)

We live in an Apartment Community, with less than 200 units, we are surrounded by some lakes with fish and a wild life preserve, we have been prepping for just over a year so WTSHTF we were wondering: 

1. How long would it be advised to stay here before bugging out?
2. How much should we stockpile for a family of 4 ??
3. What are some of the best way to to be a good prepper while living in an apartment??? Storage is a huge issue for us.. 
Looking forward to hearing from any and all of you on this.. :surrender:


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

As far as #2, I suggest you look at what the Mormons recommend.
For #3, shelves and bed risers work.


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## jpadams (Sep 7, 2012)

Marcus said:


> As far as #2, I suggest you look at what the Mormons recommend.
> For #3, shelves and bed risers work.


so what do the mormons recomment?


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## valannb22 (Jan 6, 2012)

Here is an online calculator for the LDS recommendations. There is a TON of info if you google it. http://lds.about.com/library/bl/faq/blcalculator.htm

Here is another website I really like. She is LDS and has tons of suggestions on her site about food storage that include monthly shopping planners, checklists, etc http://preparedldsfamily.blogspot.com/


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I see no reason for you to bug out unless it's to a place with more space.

I'd want a year's worth of food. Mostly canned goods and a couple hundred pounds of rice. You live near lakes so you could catch fish and drink that water if you had to. The biggest problem you'll have is finding a way to cook your food and heat your home. You live in an apartment so you'd have a hard time storing kerosene for kerosene heaters and cooking stoves. It would be better if you had a home with a basement. I take it you're not in any position to move. Is that true?


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I am a little bit unclear about the picture you are painting...



jpadams said:


> We live in an Apartment Community, with less than 200 units, we are surrounded by some lakes with fish and a wild life preserve, we have been prepping for just over a year so WTSHTF we were wondering:
> 
> 1. How long would it be advised to stay here before bugging out?


I think the single most important question is population density. This MAP based on US census data will show you your counties pop density. As an acre of land well managed can provide food for about 4 people you need to do the Math, does your county have enough acres to feed its people (personally I would look for a pop density of < 500 per sq mile in a place where there is significant farming or gardening taking place, my BOL has a pop density < 50). Of course acres don't feed people farms do, so even if you have the land if they are not arable and at least some of it actually being farmed, they are not producing food and most likely will not in the near future. If you can't feed your population locally things are going to get ugly quickly, and you want to pack your food prepps and move elsewhere ASAP. And don't forget, more important than food is water. The big downside of apartments is that they almost never have viable sources of water. If you and your neighbors don't have viable sources of water and food then your apartment is a no go. IT IS *IMPOSSIBLE *TO SHELTER IN PLACE in such a situation unless you have a well fortified (think fire, bombs, bullets, smoke etc) and concealed position and enough water and food to last you *a few years,* because all hell is going to break loose if it really hits the fan. Of course being a refugee, is almost as bad as living in a war zone. People have this on-going discussion about bugging out or not, the fact of the matter is that people become refugees because they refuse to consider the fact that the place that they live may become unlivable if and when the paradigm shifts (as it does from time to time) because of violence, fire, natural disaster, etc.

So, do your family a favor. After evaluating your county/neighborhood, consider if there is enough farmland to feed people, and if there is not consider buying something, even just a piece of property, in a place that does have enough farm land per person.

Whether you have a home or BOL that has enough farm land near it, the next consideration is defensiblity. I am unsure about the picture you are painting of your situation, it seems like you are suggesting an apartment compound surrounded by considerable land? This seems odd, given my experience of apartments, are they just man made show ponds? Well if you have the farm land near you to feed you, and the pop density is reasonable, then you have to ask yourself about the culture of your community. Are your neighbors sociable, do you know many of them, do you have friendships in the neighborhood to build on? If your 200 neighbors are complete strangers too you, then this too poses a security risk. However if you are truly neighborly, then they may prove and asset if it comes to you defending your neighborhood. Modern civilization works because of a division of labor, and you need to have significant populations to achieve the most efficient division of labor. You need a community to survive and THRIVE!



jpadams said:


> 2. How much should we stockpile for a family of 4 ??


The LDS guidelines are a good reference for how much food.



jpadams said:


> 3. What are some of the best way to to be a good prepper while living in an apartment??? Storage is a huge issue for us..
> Looking forward to hearing from any and all of you on this.. :surrender:


Unless your situation is vastly different than mine, living in an apartment is only viable while the system holds together. Think about offsite storage in containers or storage units, caches, and bugging out, particularly about where you would go and how that would concretely improve your situation. Also, make friends with your neighbors, so that even if you do decide to bug out perhaps you have few options for people who can help you bug out and thrive wherever you might go.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

I don't like the apartment idea, but then again I live in a house in an area that would be considered highly desirable near Atlanta, so I am in similar situation but have more space for storage.

If it was an economic collapse, I would have enough gas on hand for two full tanks for your BOV, and have 3-4 sites picked out within driving range of fuel. I just found a small group that we would head too, so looking for similarly minded individuals such as existing friends and associates is good. But you all must be equal in amount of supplies.

If it is EMP, and you don't have a old non-computer driven car, then is there a national park within walking distance? But how many others would head out? I would think well armed and well prepped - eating non-cooked food stuff for first 2-3 weeks and hiding out in apt, might do the trick until things settle down some, but I honestly can't tell you if that is good or bad.

SHTF scenario - 1-3 yrs of food, with enough seed stored to start a good size garden that would support your family with the tools and equipment to plant, harvest, and store grown food. Surplus medical equipment, camping equipment, winter/summer clothes, multiple pairs of good boots, TP, and PMs

A way to protect yourself and family. Having a family that supports, understand, and encourages prepping also helps.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Simple answer is mettc dependent. Smartass army answer for it depends. I live in an apt as well. For water I dont have to walk for i have the means to redirect gutter flow to rain barrells and then filtering capabilities. For food I have a mix of canned goods and water required dried goods. Cooking... coleman double burner camp stove rigged to run off large white propane containers. To reduce fuel consumption i plan on purchasing one of those insulated boxes that cook food after you boil it. It was posted in one thread. Cant remember exact name but have it written down elsewhere. When I find it ill let you know. Basically you bring pot to boil stick it in insulated cooker and let sit for a couple hrs. Much less fuel requirement. Heat isnt much of an issue as i live in ga. Also on my wish list a generator (a quiet one) to run my deep freeze. With a deep freeze and coolers for refrigeration ( 2 liter bottle icecubes for cooler ice) and a couple fans i could live for a while in my spot. Toilet bucket and garbage bags handle that. A secure bol is not a present optiin till graduation and a move so i have scouted several nasty ass swamps. With preparation i could live in a spot that others would not be tempted to habitate. Food, water, fuel, ammo, tp, and books, are the limiting factors to apt quarantine in my opinion. If you live in a colder climate heat should alsi be on your list. I can get by with my clothes and sleeping bags.
the list goes on but thats a good start. Bugging out from your apartment may be a necessity sooner than later. Get a good bug out plan together and practice, practice, practice.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

"1. How long would it be advised to stay here before bugging out?"

As long as possible. If water service was still on you could stay until your food was close to running out. You might be the safest in your apartment. Water storage would be a problem for you, I'm sure. In an apartment your vehicles are often very vulnerable, so you might have to leave before someone wrecks your vehicle. Fire in the building could force you out with very little warning.


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## jpadams (Sep 7, 2012)

Okay, so I can understand the LDS website.. thank you for that..

As far as living in an apartment, we live in the Greater Orlando area, owning a home is out of the question and renting an apartment is best for our family... I am working on building extra shelves in our closets as well as we have shelving units too... I was just wanting some ideas too  ... 

Where we live at is pretty close to an abandoned golf course that has several small lakes for fishing and some small game hunting.... 

Thank you all for the input, great food for thought


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

jpadams said:


> Okay, so I can understand the LDS website.. thank you for that..
> 
> As far as living in an apartment, we live in the Greater Orlando area, owning a home is out of the question and renting an apartment is best for our family... I am working on building extra shelves in our closets as well as we have shelving units too... I was just wanting some ideas too  ...
> 
> ...


If you live in fl a window air conditioning unit might a good idea. Start exploring kissimee swamps.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I am not a proponent of bugging out but I am not in your situation. If you decide to bug out do so as soon as possible. The first to leave will travel faster and further on less fuel. If you delay you risk getting caught up in the exodus with the bumper to bumper stop and go traffic. Make a plan. Have alternate routes planned out. Take weekend excursions to drive your routes and become aware of situations on each route. Have a destination.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

I'm also not a proponent of bugging out, but in your case I'd bug out IMMEDIATELY as soon as you know there's a serious regional, national or global event.

Why? because you live in apartments. (I'm not condescending)

You're possibly the only person in those 200 units who is even trying to prepare, that means you've at least considered what could happen if things go bad and you're trying to get yourself and your family both mentally and physically prepared.

lets look at what happens EVERY SINGLE DAY in the US. people text and crash their cars, people leave stoves on, people leave water running, people do this, people do that.

There's a saying.. a person is smart, people are dumb. You're living smack dab in the center of dumb! The chances of one of those people accidentally starting a fire in their apartment while trying to makeshift cook food or generate heat is much higher when they are stressed, starved, dehydrated and didn't really know that much about it to begin with. You have 200 chances every day one of those guys will burn down the entire complex.

That's why, once you know it's for real... beat feet! IMMEDIATELY. All of your gear, all of your preps, and maybe all of your family could be subject to the horrible decisions made by the <insert least favorite neighbor here> living near you.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> If you live in fl a window air conditioning unit might a good idea. Start exploring kissimee swamps.


If I were in his position Id get a good Bow with lots of arrows. Maybe a crossbow.
Id explore the swamps ever time I could, get topo maps (Internet copies) laminate them or put them in ziplocks so they are waterproof,Survey the best places to go with notes for each location, I would think that alot of peeps have the same idea so some previously scouted locations may not be safe, best to have alternates. Get some survival tools, Good knife, multitool,Parachute cord, compass,first aid kits, led headlamp with a white and red light I got a good one in a 3 pac, large hand held white,medium hand held white and the head lamp, with Batteries, for cheap at home depot. Yard, garage and estate sales can be good for picking up some stuff for cheap. IMO the swamps are a great place to survive, Im at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to enviroment, it dont get any more extreme than here. Id also read alot about swamp survival (Native American also). Learn whats edible and whats not. What can kill you, what to stay away from. Bear grills is awsome when it comes to that. I watch him on TV whenever I can.
I would also search this site for everything you can and learn. Im doing the same thing. I spend hours reading on here and other sites.

Preprep BOBs for every member of the Fam. I know it all sounds like alot but a little here and a little there will add up.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

If there is anyone you know who would be a good partner in any event.... I'd get to talking to them about this all. Anyone. A coworker, a family member, etc but set a plan for your family whether vehicle or on foot to leave that apartment and get there.

I would not stay in an apartment. If it were just me, I might, but being you have a family, I'd get out.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

Hey jp...
As an apartment dweller, I've come to the realization, as discussed in similar threads, that my food needs may be different from some others. I outlined in a previous post that in my complex you can easily tell what any particular unit is cooking just by walking down the sidewalk. In a different scenario, this could be a signal to a hungry person with kids to feed. I've now put in mostly CRE's- _Canned, Ready-to-eat. (Ravioli, Chicken & dumplings, my treasured corned beef hash, etc.)These foods, eaten straight or just warmed, may help ward off olfacterous zombies.
My decision about bugging out may be pre-made for me. Accessible water is one thing, but I just learned that this apartment complex has no power back-up or plan of any sort for the sewage lift station which carries away the waste to the nearest county lift station. So, in my four plex, even if I successfully find a way to keep my own pipes from backing up, the neighbors' effluent will shortly be between the walls of each others apartment. Just sayin'....._ Crap! Now I don't want that biscuits & gravy she just fixed....


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Nissan cook and carry was the cooking insulated thingy i was referring to and couldnt remember. I do think that there will be a mass exodus from fl in a bad situation. Its just to hot. Without refrigeration the food produced there will rot quickly. Also I would expect mass die offs. The percentage of elderly folks on required medications is high. Dead bodies plus heat and stagnant water equals nasty diseases. It seems to me your only options are to either get out early or be prepared to survive with your family in a very nasty remote section of swamp with your family. Wish I could be more optimistic but I dont envy your spot. Keep extra gas for bugout.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

pawpaw said:


> Hey jp...
> As an apartment dweller, I've come to the realization, as discussed in similar threads, that my food needs may be different from some others. I outlined in a previous post that in my complex you can easily tell what any particular unit is cooking just by walking down the sidewalk. In a different scenario, this could be a signal to a hungry person with kids to feed. I've now put in mostly CRE's- _Canned, Ready-to-eat. (Ravioli, Chicken & dumplings, my treasured corned beef hash, etc.)These foods, eaten straight or just warmed, may help ward off olfacterous zombies.
> My decision about bugging out may be pre-made for me. Accessible water is one thing, but I just learned that this apartment complex has no power back-up or plan of any sort for the sewage lift station which carries away the waste to the nearest county lift station. So, in my four plex, even if I successfully find a way to keep my own pipes from backing up, the neighbors' effluent will shortly be between the walls of each others apartment. Just sayin'....._ Crap! Now I don't want that biscuits & gravy she just fixed....


Darnit! Didnt think of nasty ass neighbors septic issues. Fly in the ointment. Guess Ill have to make a long drop plan and a way to convince the neighbors to use it. Just in case I actually have to stay there.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

jpadams said:


> We live in an Apartment Community, with less than 200 units, we are surrounded by some lakes with fish and a wild life preserve, we have been prepping for just over a year so WTSHTF we were wondering:
> 
> 1. How long would it be advised to stay here before bugging out?
> 2. How much should we stockpile for a family of 4 ??
> ...


We're kind of in similar boats, so here's my plans:
I go horizon to horizon in preps, that is to say 6 months at a time,mostly because 6 months stuff is all I can store.

Defensive weapons:
Too tight for a full bore rifle, you'll kill your neighbors! go 20 ga. pump shotgun like a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 with a 8 shot tube and a selection of hunting chokes. 250 rounds of medium hunting shot, mix between #4 and #7 and 100 rounds of 000 buck.All you hardcores 
wonder why I said 20 ga? thin walls and neighbors.

A handgun.maybe a 9mm with high expansion rounds like hydroshock, Glazer safety slug or gold sabre.none of these will penetrate too far.

POSSIBLY a pistol caliber carbine.Uzi,Mac 11,Sterling, etc..hate them myself but you live in a perfect area for one. 500 rounds minimum ammo.

Another good choice would be one of the "tactical" 22s out there,I like the Rugers.again, use only standard velocity HP ammo.learn to get head shots!

Food:
In a 4'X4'X6 foot space, I can cram OVER six months worth of food, forget the extreme long term storage stuff and rotate every two years.be sure to mix in 1/3 dehydrated stuff like mountain house JUST IN CASE you have to grab an armload and run for your life!this stuff keeps years so set it to one side.

Water is going to be a pain, I suggest keeping a month's supply of 1 gallon drinkable and investing in the BEST water purifier you can afford and a 1 gallon still and solar cooker to heat it.

Med kit.
Everything I'm trained to use is crammed in a 50 cal can, RONSSURPLUS can hook you up nice,he has a page in vendors section.

NOW to your actual questions!

I'd stay put until most everyone else drifts away, if they're hungry and see you humping food out YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS! the only other option is to split after things calm down a bit and BEFORE their food runs out and they get desperate.that's like a 1 week window IF you're lucky!72 hours if you're not!

The above I listed properly balanced and utilized would last 3 months comfortably, MUCH longer rationed and without waste.it would be a good idea to hide your cans and burn what you can.BE SURE YOU USE A SEALABLE METAL CAN.those rotten cans will be a bug/disease problem within 10 days or 4 in the summer!

Have you paid attention to toilet needs? I plunked an article on it here somewhere.it's called: "got poo?"

A nice plus with kids would be cereals, they like it and you can burn the boxes.not much nutrition so add minerals and liquid vitamins to the instant milk.NOT knowing, but any babies? better research their needs and plan on a LOT of poop filled diapers.:gaah:


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

You have a good point about over penetration Magus, that got me to thinking about it and I went and found this youtube video. These guys setup a side by side demo of 2 pieces of "wall" and then a board on the back to show what if you're in your apt, shoot and miss. The results are fairly standard and to be expected, especially if you're familiar with shooting shotguns or just happen to like watching a lot of youtubes, however I was surprised on the waxxer shell.






It's also a good point about hauling your stuff out while everyone is watching. if bugging out is an option you gotta be really careful about that, I agree completely! Maybe if you're fortunate to have a garage at your apt, you might be able to start making smaller loads out here and there and get some stuff prepositioned already in the garage or the trunk of your car. Kind of a brutal proposition, lots of negative and pretty hard to find a win unfortunately.

I wish I were in a better position myself, but I'm right in the middle of zombieville too. We have police in the neighborhood chasing people around frequently enough as it is, I don't think that will get better when the police are home defending their own families. On the other hand, there's also a lot of guys from the nearby base so it's also possible when it's really zombie day these guys may decide to do a little proactive gene pool cleanup on some of the local dirtbags before they become a serious problem.


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## jpadams (Sep 7, 2012)

Magus said:


> We're kind of in similar boats, so here's my plans:
> I go horizon to horizon in preps, that is to say 6 months at a time,mostly because 6 months stuff is all I can store.
> 
> Defensive weapons:
> ...


Funny you ask that question... Yes we have very much so.. we have these buckets that we have converted, one for poo and one for pee... never mix the two, that would be very bad combo.. But we have these bags that we can put into them and then bury them when we need to do so.. 
I use a vac sealer on so many levels.. I have candy from last Halloween even, we just opened one up to test.. Man was it still so good!!! I don't have babies, but I do have powdered formula and strawberry mix, we can use that if we need too to supply us with the needed nutrients to help push us through


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