# Snakebites



## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Just out of curiosity


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Just wondering what everyone plans to do if the get snake bit after the shtf....no antivenom to be had...anyone know any good home remedies?


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

I want to know this too. I am so terrified of snakes that I've always said, if I get bit by a snake, I'll die of a heart attack WAY before the venom has time to have any affect.
I don't know where my fear comes from. But, when I see a snake, I can hardly breathe and get shaky.

I'm tough, and can handle about anything. But those devil critters just scare the hell out of me.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Several years ago we were on a Celtic Lands Cruise and one of the other passengers was an old country veterinarian from Georgia. He said if he ever got snake bit, he'd tell his friend to take him by the vet's house and then to the hospital.

His friend asked why the house first. The old vet said he'd spray the snake bite with DMSO and get his gun. This begged the question of... why the gun... and the old vet said he'd shoot the first person who tried to wash off the DMSO. He swore by that stinky stuff so much we keep some at the ranch. I have no idea if it works.

My real plan is to take 1mg of Benadryl per pound of my weight (going off the snake bite on my dog in another thread) and keep pulverized charcoal on it to pull out the venom. I'll also follow the steps in the new Survival Medicine Handbook (the second edition of Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy). I've got to plug their new book here.... we have so many "first aid books" that tell you what to do immediately and then call an ambulance. The authors recognize you're on your own and they do a pretty good job of covering all kinds of emergencies and what YOU need to do because nobody is coming. I've made a shopping list of things I need to keep on hand after going through their book. I got the book off Amazon.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Living where I do and all the hiking I do here, I've researched some on this subject. In most snake bites no venom is injected. So you just treat them like you would any bite from any animal. Next is a little venom is injected and the person has varied amounts of pain and other symptoms but recovers(maybe not back to 100%) without any medical aid. In about 5% or so of the cases the victim if rushed to a hospital and they have enough anti-venom the victim recovers (most of the time) in SHTF those would all die. No home remedies(other than maybe something that may ease some of the suffering). Don't play with snakes. Don't stick your hand in holes to see what you can find in there. Watch where you are walking. 99% of snakes do not want to bite you and will "run" away.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

For those of us who live in Texas and other areas full of snakes, it's important to distinguish between venomous and non-venomous snakes. Venomous snakes have fangs, a triangular head, and slit eyes (we call them cat eyes). Non-venomous snakes have a more oval head, no fangs (although their bite can become infected because they eat things), and their pupils are round (what we call people eyes).

You need to know the kinds of snakes prevalent in your area. We have rat snakes (non-venomous), copperheads, water moccasin, and coral snakes and possibly a few rattlesnakes all of which are venomous. 

Several years ago I got a big snake chart that had a picture of all the snakes in this area and gave a synopsis of each one of them. We made the grandkids stand in front of that chart and memorize it and then we took them to the zoo to show them the snake "in person". If any of you are interested, I'll see if I can find out where we got the poster - probably from Texas Parks and Wildlife.

We always wear jeans and boots when out in the brush, as do the young'uns. The kids have been taught to watch where they'e walking and if they see a snake to quietly back away from it. If they get bit, they would have to describe the snake - what kind and about how long. As a prevention, the young 'uns have to take the dogs if they go out on the ranch because the dogs will alert on a snake. We also teach the kids to make noise as they're walking because most snakes don't want any kind of confrontation.

We were picking up brush at the end of spring several years ago. I picked up a 5' limb to toss on trailer and something on the limb caught my eye. A Copperhead had wrapped itself around the far end of the limb. We looked at each other for a few seconds then I walked over to a brushy area and gently laid the branch and the snake down and walked away. Snakes do a good job of controlling vermin so we try to live in harmony with them. 

Of course the best advice is to avoid getting bit. You do this by making noise when you're walking, be very careful around wood piles as well as brush where snakes might be hard to see. Wear the right clothes. Always wear boots (leather or rubber) if you're going to be working in brush. Always wear gloves if you're moving wood.

We just cut the hay meadow and the rat snakes as well as the hawks are everywhere because the field mice have nowhere to hide. In a SHTF situation, mice will be a significant problem so I don't mind their natural predators hanging around.


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## pladderpus (Aug 23, 2013)

There are a lot of factors to consider before answering this question. There are four species of venomous snake in North America; copperheads, rattlesnakes, water moccasins and the coral snake, all of which have the potential to kill a full grown adult with a single bite. 

What a lot of folks don't know is that all of these snakes have the ability to bite WITHOUT injecting venom, resulting in what is called a "dry bite" which is commonly what happens when they bite out of self defense. Snake venom is a big part of their digestive process as well as immobilizing the prey so it can be eaten without a fight. 

If you are however bitten by a large snake that injects its full payload into your system, it's a toss up as to wether or not your going to make it. Rattlesnake venom in particular is EXTREMELY deadly. It breaks down the tissue surrounding the bite, has anti coagulants and most importantly is a very effective neurotoxin that causes paralysis of the diaphragm resulting in respiratory arrest and ultimately, death. Even with antivenin you have a good chance of losing whatever limb was bitten because of the necrosis. 

The most important thing you can do is STAY CALM and forget everything you've seen on television. Clean and bandage the bite area and keep it below your heart to slow the venoms spread into your system. Most "snakebite" kits have been discredited and actually do more harm than good, DO NOT CUT YOURSELF!!!! This only increases your heart rate and increased the chance of infection. Sucking the poison out is out as well, if you wanna see why, find the episode of Mythbusters on snakebites. It's on YouTube. 

People survived snakebites LONG before medical science, just do your research and most importantly DON'T GET BIT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! 

Pladderpus, out


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

I want to thank Country Living for an informative post, especially for a guy who sees no snakes here on the sandbar.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I always carry my dog with me anytime I go into the woods(dogs have saved my life more times than I can count)...I was curious about any home remedies cuz I know I use some on my dogs...their is some I have been curious about such as using electricity on the bite ASAP as it is supposed to neutralize the venom from most bites other than corral snakes...I've heard old timers using onions to draw out poison and eating sticks of butter...etc etc


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

One of the things in my family that was very important for us was to have good dental care. This came about due to my grandfather being bit by a rattler on the ranch. They would have sucked what venom they could out, but they all had decaying teeth. The nearest dr. was 50 miles away. He nearly died, but he did survive.

We were always on the watch for snakes on the ranch. They were seen on the front porch and all around the home place. After I spent time on the ranch I always had nightmares about them.

When I think about bugging out, snakes are one thing I am concerned about. In the book, Land of the Burnt Thigh, a story about settlers along the Missouri River in central S.D., there were annual snake hunts, to clear the area as much as possible of rattle snakes. They strung them up on wire, like a fence. A days hunt would produce 100s of snakes taken out.

I recently found this somewhat odd man who made this videos about


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Only thing I'd add to Country Living's post is to carry a long walking stick/staff and use it to probe out in front of you. That way, the stick gets hit and not you. Plus the stick comes in handy if you want to kill a posionous one.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Coral snakes are basically too small to bite you. Their mouth does not open big enough to bite you on the arm or leg. They could bite you on the lip, ear, maybe loose skin, web between thumb and finger, maybe your genitals.
A snake knows a stick is not alive. A snake needs no light what-so-ever to "see" you. I've stepped on sleeping rattle snakes a few times by accident. I've never gotten bit(so far). I think I was always out of strike range by the time they totally woke up. The first time my son was behind me when he said "Did you know you stepped on a snake?". After you step on them they always look mad.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

The staff probably won't work. I have two stories to say that.

(1) I was on a hike in the mountains with some other people. Three of us were up out of sight ahead of the main group. We stopped and waited and it turns out we alerted a Copperhead as we passed and it struck at the group behind us. It struck at a female who in the process of stepping just happened to kick the snake in the head with her closer leg as it was trying to bite her just planted farther away, stationary leg. She wasn't the first person in that 2nd group to pass the snake and nobody saw it on the well trampled trail. That summer was at a camp and we found another Copperhead and a Rattlesnake that was over 4' long. Grilled Rattlesnake has almost no flavor.

(2) A couple were out on a 10 pm walk around the perimeter of their property due to snoopers watching them. He stepped over a log in the trail and alarmed a Copperhead that he didn't see. When the girl stepped over the log behind him it bit her. They didn't know what it was when it bit for sure. It apparently didn't inject her with much because she waited at the hospital basically without treatment for 12 hours before leaving for a larger one where they could get treatment. At that time they gave her anti-venom and probably an antibiotic then scheduled surgery.* They also opened the leg up to allow it to drain for a day or so. It was a large opening that was longer than half her lower leg.*

I stayed in a hotel in Chattanooga once. There was a convention of kids there so when I encountered an unmoving black looking snake with a triangular head in the hallway I assumed it was a prank. When I got past it it started moving. It was a Water Moccasin and heading down the hallway. The last door in the line had a LARGE opening at the bottom so I knocked on the door to warn them. They didn't believe me and wouldn't listen to what I said about the snake. I told them to call the front desk and he didn't want to so I kept banging on the door until he did. Evidently he said someone was bugging them because the desk girl came in the hallway looking for a confrontation until she saw the snake and nearly peed herself. It was a good sized snake. The dummy inside the room finally took direction to shove a towel in the gap of the door so the snake could be herded out the main door. The maintenance guy showed up outside and opened the door so it could get out. As it went out the door I made the mistake of giving it a little flip with the towel to urge it out. I did it again and it turned back around and struck at the towel sinking a tooth in it. I dropped the towel and we backed off and it went on it's way.

In another hotel once I woke up to a snake skin in the floor where one hadn't been when I went to sleep.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

I like snakes. We had 9-10 snakes and some lizards a while back. We had to get rid of them when we moved to Florida in '05 after we discovered the closest place to get feeder mice was over a 45 minute drive. They also had discussed making it a law that all constrictors had to have a chip. We could not afford this so we sold them to a local snake lover who gave them very nice homes and raised his own feeder mice. 

The poisonous ones I try to leave alone. You can eat all the butter in Paula Deans kitchen but a bite from a rattlesnake, copperhead, or cotton mouth is going to f you up without professional treatment and antivenin. I've never heard of a home remedy for snake bites. I even asked a friend who raises venomous snakes what to do in a situation like that. He said pray for either a miracle or salvation cause you're going to need one or the other.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Knock on wood we haven't seen any poisonous ones here. Mainly milk, rat and pine snakes. Sis in law had a 2 foot copper head on her carport last week. The youngest niece walked up on it and thankfully wasn't bitten. 

We keep a bunch of benadryl in our preps since the kids have allergies. Might need to up the stock for bites. 

So the kits from wm don't work? I've thought about getting a couple....


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

I had a neighbor that used to rent the property on our East side that drive up to the top of the mountain on our North side to watch a forest fire in another basin, while there he shot a timber rattler and foolishly tried to pick it up at which the "dead" snake bit him in the thumb. He dang near died, but he's not the only one to learn snakes can still bite after being considered dead. I've seen them with their heads nearly severed from a shovel try to strike and if one just happened to be in the way they'd have gotten it. With warm weather here in S.W. Oregon we are always on snake alert, especially since I've found a few rattlers in the past three years that had lost their rattles.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*A rattlesnake head will strike*



Viking said:


> I had a neighbor that used to rent the property on our East side that drive up to the top of the mountain on our North side to watch a forest fire in another basin, while there he shot a timber rattler and foolishly tried to pick it up at which the "dead" snake bit him in the thumb. He dang near died, but he's not the only one to learn snakes can still bite after being considered dead. I've seen them with their heads nearly severed from a shovel try to strike and if one just happened to be in the way they'd have gotten it. With warm weather here in S.W. Oregon we are always on snake alert, especially since I've found a few rattlers in the past three years that had lost their rattles.


I read that a rattlesnake head can see, will bite and inject poison in you for at least half an hour. That is the severed head of a now supposed dead rattlesnake. I had no idea.

I have heard that there are rattlers in all 50 states, but Texas and Arizona have the most.

The best snake is a dead snake. And dead for a while evidently.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

I have read through all of these posts, I wasn't going to comment, but there are several things I would like to address.
1: Rattle Snakes, Copperheads, Water Moccasins are pit vipers and their venom is Hemotoxic, which means that the venom attacks the blood and tissue around the bite and spreads outward. this venom is not Neurotoxic. 
2: Coral Snakes are small and will have a hard time biting you, but most people mistake them for a different species (can't remember the name) but remember black on yellow kill a fellow, red on black friend of Jack. These snakes are the only North American species that is Neurotoxic and most people are bitten on the finger.
3: While a Copperhead can kill there hasn't been a death in this country from a Copperhead bite in over a hundred years, their venom is not as potent as other snakes and is most dangerous to the very young, the elderly or the infirm. While the venom may not kill it will make you very sick for a long time without proper treatment.
4: While Benadryl is good for allergic reactions, I doubt that it will have any effect on venom since it does not cause an allergic reaction. Taking one Mg. per pound of body weight is a recipe for disaster, since if you were 200 lbs. that would be 200 Mgs. or eight 25 Mg. capsules which is well over a prescription dose.
5: The best treatment for snake bite is prevention, be aware of where you step, where you put your hands and of your surroundings and wear protective clothing in snake country. In the old days before anti-venom people died from snake bite inspite of the "remedies" of the time, because there is no herbal remedy for snake bite, especially activated charcoal.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

Well, if you have a lot of rattlers around you, the best thing to do in order to have a safe area to relax in and raise your kids in safely is to build a double fence with pigs. One fenced area for your yard and an outer one to keep in the pigs. They will fight over rattlers.
If you see a silent rattlesnake, kill it, but try not to kill the ones with rattles. It is slowly being bred out of them because so many people kill the ones they can hear.
Edit to add: You are thinking of corn and coral snakes. Very important to remember which is which if you plan on messing with them, which I do not suggest.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

It seems I'm the only one who doesn't mind and even respects snakes. They are an important part of the ecosystem for those of us who live in the country. 

We've infringed on the snakes territory so much they have no choice but to try to co-habitate with humans. Snakes don't stalk people. They don't plan on biting a person. They only strike if they're surprised or otherwise disturbed. 

Learn to identify the snakes in your area. Learn their habitat and habits. The more you know, the better off you'll be.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I live in snake country and have seen alot of them. I have never killed one. They are just another critter.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Country Living said:


> It seems I'm the only one who doesn't mind and even respects snakes. They are an important part of the ecosystem for those of us who live in the country.
> 
> We've infringed on the snakes territory so much they have no choice but to try to co-habitate with humans. Snakes don't stalk people. They don't plan on biting a person. They only strike if they're surprised or otherwise disturbed.


I respect snakes, think they're pretty cool creatures & have even allowed my daughter to have them as pets in my house. But I have seen water moccasins chase people on land & also swim towards a boat & try to climb in (they can do it), so I don't buy the "they won't bother you if you don't bother them" mentality. I don't know what those snakes plans were but I'm not interested in finding out.  If I see a poisonous snake, it's dead. Sorry. I just won't take the chance of it, or its offspring, biting my kid.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

Country Living said:


> It seems I'm the only one who doesn't mind and even respects snakes. They are an important part of the ecosystem for those of us who live in the country.
> 
> We've infringed on the snakes territory so much they have no choice but to try to co-habitate with humans. Snakes don't stalk people. They don't plan on biting a person. They only strike if they're surprised or otherwise disturbed.
> 
> Learn to identify the snakes in your area. Learn their habitat and habits. The more you know, the better off you'll be.


I love snakes. In the wild I leave them alone unless they are non venomous. Then I grab them and play with them for a minute then let them go do whatever it is snakes do. If I find a venomous snake on my property near my house or shed, unfortunately they are removed dead or alive. I'm not risking my wife, animals, family, or myself getting bit trying to drag the Christmas lights out or something.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Saw this picture of a rattlesnake today & it reminded me of this thread so I just had to add it.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Now, that's impressive! Was it captured anywhere around you?


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Country Living said:


> Now, that's impressive! Was it captured anywhere around you?


No, I think it was in Midland out in west Texas, thank God! If I ever saw that thing in the wild, I wouldn't have to worry about the venom, the heart attack would get me first. Lol that thing had like 22 rattlers.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

there are rattlers and copperheads where I live, we just keep our eyes and ears open, don't jump any logs ect, watch where we set down in the woods or pastures. snakes do not want to bite anything they can't eat and if possible they'll keep out of the way.

spiders are another danger, last week one of my sons was bitten at his job and within a couple hrs, his wrist was swollen up, he works at a place where people who are parole violators or waiting for court are held so there is a nurse on duty, he went to her in the morning and she sent him to the ER in the next town, at the ER they just gave him a couple prescriptions for pain and antibiotics and sent him home, no x-rays or trying to figure out what the bite was. now, 9 days later the wrist is almost normal but still sore.


that night his wrist was larger than his mussel and in extremer pain, He called and I picked him up and took him to the same ER where they gave him some stronger pain killer and told him that he had to go up to a larger hospital in the nearest city.., I took him up about 50 miles away, we got there about 5 in morning, they x-rayed it, gave him more antibiotics, pain killers but didn't know what the bite was from. I guess the venom of what ever had went into his wrist and infected the area where there was a steel screw and plastic bone from yrs ago when he broke in playing soccer.
now, 9 days later the wrist is almost normal


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

tsrwivey said:


> Saw this picture of a rattlesnake today & it reminded me of this thread so I just had to add it.


That is the biggest Rattle Snake I have ever seen. Assuming that the fella holding it is some where around 6Ft. then that snake has to be some where around 12Ft.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Its actually kind of easy to figure out what to do in a no hospital scenario - you read what could be done for you and take it up to that point. 
Cesil's Medicine give some hopeful background info:

In the United States, it is estimated that up to 8000 venomous bites by native species occur each year, mostly by pit vipers (rattlesnakes, copperheads, cottonmouths), with fewer than 100 bites by coral snakes, the only native elapid. Fortunately, the number of fatalities, primarily caused by rattlesnakes, is less than 10 per year. Children and possibly pregnant women are at highest risk for complications.

From reading critical care journals, the majority of treatments performed for venomous bites is supportive care until either antivenom is acquired - most everything that is done aside from the antivenom is monitoring and treatments done to lessen and reverse complications of the toxin process. I'll post it here, but take what you want from it. This is info specifically for pit vipers - rattlers, water moccasins.



> signs and symptoms.
> Swelling and pain are the first and most important findings of early pit viper
> envenomation. These symptoms often occur within minutes and are followed
> by progressive proximal swelling and ecchymosis in the bitten extremity,
> ...


This would mean feeling and evaluating for pulses in hands and fingers if the bite was higher up on the arm. Vascular compromise would look like a enlarged swollen area south of the bite as if a tourniquet was left on too long. Treatment would require vertical incisions down to muscles while avoiding nerves and blood vessels( fasciatomies ) inorder to relieve the swelling and return blood circulation.



> Necrosis typically occurs over a period of several days, with the potential for permanent tissue loss. Progression of local injury usually ceases within 24 to 36 hours. Secondary infection of snake bites is rare, but the presence of necrosis increases its likelihood. The development of systemic symptoms such as nausea, diaphoresis, paresthesias, metallic taste, and dizziness may indicate more severe envenomation. Hypotension and bleeding manifestations (e.g., distant petechiae; hematuria; gingival, gastrointestinal, central nervous system bleeding) may also occur early and pose the greatest risk for death. During the first 24 hours, the white blood cell count is often increased. Various coagulation abnormalities, alone or in combination, may be seen, including thrombocytopenia; elevated D-dimer or fibrin-fibrinogen degradation products, with or without hypofibrinogenemia; and prolongation of the international normalized ratio or activated partial thromboplastin time.
> Hematologic effects are more common with rattlesnake bites but can occur
> with copperhead or cottonmouth envenomation as well. Spontaneous bleeding
> is more likely with combined and severe coagulation system abnormalities.
> ...


Unfortunately without more invasive monitoring and care, this would be hard to do. If you have the ability for IV fluids, you could judiciously use it to raise blood pressure and treat the low blood pressure. It will also help avoid renal failure from the breakdown of blood and muscle (hemocoagulation and rhabdomyolysis. ) Mainly, you're looking for signs of how bad the bite is here. If you see bleeding at sites distant from the bite, then the amount of venom received is high and things will probably get worse. Without antivenom and modern labs and medications, IV fluids and pain medication are about the best you can do.



> The chance of a North American crotaline bite resulting in envenomation is around 80%. The onset of symptoms of pit viper envenomation is usually rapid and obvious but may be delayed for many hours. Potentially "dry" bites should be observed for at least 10 to 12 hours.
> The ultimate severity of envenomation becomes apparent only over time,
> and "mild" envenomation may progress to "severe," depending on the venom
> load, venom components, and host factors. Definitive therapy for systemic
> ...


Using Benadryl will help with the itches, burning, and skin blotching.(hypersensitivity and histamine releases) I've seen people have up to 200mg in a day.(50mg every 6 hrs) They are the most miserable people ever. Its extremely sedating but doesn't really allow them to sleep well. I would consider this as long as they don't have difficulty breathing or signs of neurological impairment - otherwise you are worsening the situation. I would reserve the epinephrine, if you have it for moments, when either blood pressures and /or pulses are extremely low and the person is either non responsive or showing signs of poor perfusion. With coral snake envenomation, there is a high incidence of muscle weakness and paralysis requiring intubation and ventilation. Luckily NA coral snakes aren't as dangerous as those in India and East Asia.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

California Kingsnake : red on black, friend of jack  
Coral Snake of North America looks like the Cali King...to help distinguish : red touch yellow, kill a fellow. 

I dig snakes, I'm not into them as pets but can appreciate them keeping down pests like rodents. My friends horse ranch had a huge king living on it in this one part of the acreage. Im sure there were others but we'd see this one now and then for years. It was the first wild king I've ever seen and it was big. The horses never stomped it either...

One flood I went to down in the hollister area of cali (central) a flash flood musta flushed out a den. Me n my crew boss were the only ones willing to fish out n rescue the king snakes. We'd let them go in a huge barn on high ground. 

I agree with country living...great post by the way. Learn about... at the least.. what posionous snakes are living in your area. Most of the time you'll never see them and if you do it will be an informed sightning.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

holy crap that is a big snake!! 

I forgot to mention I've kept this bite kit called the extractor kit. I got it because of SAR ops n the potential to hike on a rescue in rattler areas. One never knows...Im glad to say we never had to utilize it. We'd see them or hear them n stear clear. The kit was inexpensive n very lightweight. I really dont know how well it really works but it beats nothing I spose.


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## wtxprepper (Jul 30, 2013)

tsrwivey said:


> Saw this picture of a rattlesnake today & it reminded me of this thread so I just had to add it.


Yeah it was a couple miles north of Midland, I live just east of there. Rattlesnakes around here are no joke, I killed one about a week and a half ago outside my shop and I live in the city. It was 5'4"long 3 inches in diameter in its fattest point and had 11 buttons.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

My Book PFG Venomous Animals list 5 kinds of snake that are venomous in North America.
The four everyone knows & the rear-fanged Lyre snake.
Three coral snakes, Eastern,Texas,Arizona.
The other snake listed as Harmless is listed because it is mistaken as a coral snake.
This snake is the SCARLET KING SNAKE which is a milk snake.
This is one of many king snakes.
Unless it is in the yard I do not kill venomous animals, rats,voles & moles are far more deadly then any of the other.
The Black plague Of the 1300 kill as many as 40,000 people, bet they wish they had birds of prey & snakes.
People who forget history will repeat it.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

The rattlesnake is being held out toward the camera with a 2x4 or something so it looks bigger than it is. It's big, but not as big as it looks.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Some of the chickens were throwing a fit on the porch yesterday. I looked out the window and they were all on patio table and the back of the chairs squawking loudly. I went out and looked around, thinking I'd see a rat snake... couldn't find anything. The chickens jumped down and ran around to the back of the barn. 

A few hours later one of the dogs alerted to something on the porch. It was a baby copperhead about 8" long. That's what the chickens must have been fussing about.

It got relocated about a mile away in a forest area.


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## -JohnD- (Sep 16, 2012)

camo2460 said:


> I have read through all of these posts, I wasn't going to comment, but there are several things I would like to address.
> 1: Rattle Snakes, Copperheads, Water Moccasins are pit vipers and their venom is Hemotoxic, which means that the venom attacks the blood and tissue around the bite and spreads outward. this venom is not Neurotoxic.
> 2: Coral Snakes are small and will have a hard time biting you, but most people mistake them for a different species (can't remember the name) but remember black on yellow kill a fellow, red on black friend of Jack. These snakes are the only North American species that is Neurotoxic and most people are bitten on the finger.
> 3: While a Copperhead can kill there hasn't been a death in this country from a Copperhead bite in over a hundred years, their venom is not as potent as other snakes and is most dangerous to the very young, the elderly or the infirm. While the venom may not kill it will make you very sick for a long time without proper treatment.
> ...


The Coral Snake mimic you are thinking of is the Scarlett King Snake



tsrwivey said:


> Saw this picture of a rattlesnake today & it reminded me of this thread so I just had to add it.


This is called forced perception, holding something closer to the camera to make it look bigger.



Hooch said:


> California Kingsnake : red on black, friend of jack
> Coral Snake of North America looks like the Cali King...to help distinguish : red touch yellow, kill a fellow.
> 
> I dig snakes, I'm not into them as pets but can appreciate them keeping down pests like rodents. My friends horse ranch had a huge king living on it in this one part of the acreage. Im sure there were others but we'd see this one now and then for years. It was the first wild king I've ever seen and it was big. The horses never stomped it either...
> ...


Cali Kings are black/white or brownish/cream color. Scarlett Kings are the ones that look like Coral Snakes.......

Btw if you are in South America the some of the Corals colors are reversed!! Just fyi!


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## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

Got a couple of snake tales.

We live in snake country, and a few years ago my wife was watching television in the living room with the light off. I came into the room and in the dim light saw what looked like a computer cable on the floor not far from her. It turned out to be a 15" copperhead that must have entered via the doggy door and passed within two feet of my wife. It died, along with a few more copperheads that wanted to enter my yard. I don't go where I know they live, and I want them to return the favor.

When I was stationed in Florida, one of our guys had a flat tire. He changed the tire, and the next day he was checking to see what has caused it. Something scratched his finger, and it turned out to be a snake fang. There was enough venom in the fang to cause his finger to swell enough that he had to have it treated by the medics.

Around here, the best friend against snakes is the roadrunner. I saw one in our yard with a mouth full of baby copperheads about the size of a large earthworm. Guess her little ones got to dine on snake that day.

I keep a pump-up air rifle handy for my snake killer.


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## Momturtle (Nov 2, 2009)

We actively encourage snakes at our place. Near the chicken pen is a pile of lumber that we know has at least one copperhead. It eats mice and rats and does not come out and bother us at all. Other snakes (Rat snakes, racers and king snakes) are under various things here and there. They eat voles, they eat mice and we love them for it. On the other hand, we would never put our hands or feet somewhere we could not see all around. We also have a very large population of black widow spiders and a big ugly they call an apple spider around here. The widows hide and the apple rares up and bares its fangs. There is a section of the yard that is clear and safe for kids and adults. We make sure it stays that way but we would never kill a snake (not enough meat to make it worthwhile at this time LOL) because we see them as another tool to maintain our homestead. Of course I have to yell at DH so he won't pick up and play with the copperheads.


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