# gold rings as barter or money hedge



## Dakine

Hey, I dont have tons of cash for investing in PM's, usually when I do buy some, it's ebay and I try to get the best prices I can but on low amounts of pre-65 dimes and quarters.

I was thinking about trying to buy some wedding rings from those cash for gold places or maybe pawn shops and stuff like that?

my questions are:

how do I make sure I'm not getting a ring that is gold plated instead of a gold ring?
How do I know what carat the gold is?
How do I translate the carat to a price compared to spot value?
Is there a cheaper faster way to buy gold on an entry level budget like mine?

Thanks for any help!


----------



## labotomi

For the same weight, you'll pay more for rings than you would bullion. In addition rings are not pure gold by a long shot. Rings are typically 10 to 18 Karat with 14 being most common that's a range of 42% to 75% gold. Bullion is 99.99% 

Right now bullion is about $71/gram which is about $12 over spot pricing. You could buy small coins or bars with little money, but the larger sizes have a lower premium over spot pricing per weight.


----------



## k0xxx

Dakine said:


> how do I make sure I'm not getting a ring that is gold plated instead of a gold ring?


Buy from a reputable dealer or someone with a long standing eBay presence, with a bare minimum or no negative feedback.



Dakine said:


> How do I know what carat the gold is?


Gold jewelry must be marked with the karat rating by law in the US. Also, a gold test kit is good and safe insurance.



Dakine said:


> How do I translate the carat to a price compared to spot value?


Get a decent scale that weighs in grams (they're fairly cheap these days), and there are a lot of conversion sites on the internet. Also having the formulas written down and a calculator is a good idea if buying from an individual.



Dakine said:


> Is there a cheaper faster way to buy gold on an entry level budget like mine?


If you are diligent and stay on the auctions, you can come across good deals on jewelry at times. However, as more and more people are trying to do the same, it's getting tougher. Once you learn the ropes and gain some confidence, Craigslist can be a good way to acquire individual rings and such. I have been buying this way for a good number of years.

According to at least one author that has gone through an economic collapse, rings and jewelry can be safer to sell than coins. Thieves tend to look for anyone selling coins and assume they have more at home. Selling "your" or "your wife's" wedding ring may draw less attention.


----------



## Immolatus

I dont like the idea of jewelry if you are thinking barter post SHTF. Really you would only be able to sell to someone with the ability to test it, or someone extremely gullible.
Think about it, would you take the word of someone you dont know who says "Its real gold dude, I swear". While theoretically you could say the same thing about coins, fake coins are rare while there is tons of costume jewelry already in existence.
As a hedge, sure, because you can sell it to a dealer who will test it.

You can buy small amounts of gold in 5 gram 'bars', but keep in mind you pay a really high premium for small amounts.

Hi ho silver! And by that I mean buy silver.


----------



## k0xxx

Immolatus, IMHO you are right. Bartering with gold jewelry would be pretty tough, unless they were prepared to test the pieces (not very likely under even normal circumstances). 

So I guess it depends on what type of S one expect to HTF. I just don't see a collapse of society without an all out nuclear exchange, or some other apocalyptic scenario. For me jewelry makes perfect sense, as I tend to gravitate toward a currency crisis and rampant inflation. Selling small amounts to a dealer would be more realistic option under my version of a likely SHTF event. However, not having a crystal ball, I am attempting to cover as many basses as possible in the metals department so I have gold and silver coins, bullion, jewelry, and other items in varying amounts.


----------



## invision

k0xxx said:


> Immolatus, IMHO you are right. Bartering with gold jewelry would be pretty tough, unless they were prepared to test the pieces (not very likely under even normal circumstances).
> 
> So I guess it depends on what type of S one expect to HTF. I just don't see a collapse of society without an all out nuclear exchange, or some other apocalyptic scenario. For me jewelry makes perfect sense, as I tend to gravitate toward a currency crisis and rampant inflation. Selling small amounts to a dealer would be more realistic option under my version of a likely SHTF event. However, not having a crystal ball, I am attempting to cover as many basses as possible in the metals department so I have gold and silver coins, bullion, jewelry, and other items in varying amounts.


But why not barter Jewelry? Two reasons in my book, first all gold jewelry is marked with either 10k, 14k, or 18k stamps... Second, on eBay (for example) you can get gold acid test kits cheap... I have 3 kits now, and haven't even spent $100 on them... Eventually in Post SHTF world, gold will come back as the standard backing for currancy, the more you have the better off you will be too...

If someone is trying to barter a ring, I would look on the inside for the maker's stamp, even if I saw it, say it says 14k, I would then do a acid test to verify. If it with stands the acid test, then you know you have a 14k piece of gold.

Just my OP...


----------



## k0xxx

I have and use gold/silver tests kits on a fairly regular basis. So far I have only come across 1 piece of jewelry marked as gold, and had it to test otherwise. It was actually sterling silver and had been cast from a mold of another ring. Odd, but I purchased it anyway after showing the seller that it was indeed silver, and showed him the casting marks. I use it when teaching other to identify gold and silver.

The hardest part of testing a piece of jewelry can be convincing the seller to let me do the rubbing on the stone. They sometimes feel that the item will be damaged badly or ruined, making it harder to sell if I don't buy it.


----------



## db2469

I am a jeweler and I agree with those above who say gold jewelry would probably not be great barter items. I deal with "estate" jewelry often and send most of it to a refiner in exchange for gold bullion as the bullion imo would be seen as currency post apocalypse, while the jewelry may not...if anyone wants a specific opinion related to jewelry, feel free to PM me..


----------



## BillS

I've looked on eBay. You could look at Buy It Now's. Lowist prices first. Search using: 

gold wedding ring -fashion -plated -ep -gp -titanium -steel -overlay -tungsten -plating -overla

Having looked at all that, I'd be concerned about being cheated with what I thought I was buying. Junk silver dimes are a lot safer.


----------



## cnsper

In reality, gold has no value. It has value only because people give it value. I would take a box of ammo before I took a $1500 ring. The problem is going to be that there is nothing anyone can do with the gold on a practical level. It is just a pretty metal. Now you bring me a bunch of lead, now we have something to talk about. The other thing is that people are going to want what they paid for the ring and that is not going to happen, at least not with me.


----------



## labotomi

cnsper said:


> In reality, gold has no value. It has value only because people give it value. I would take a box of ammo before I took a $1500 ring. The problem is going to be that there is nothing anyone can do with the gold on a practical level. It is just a pretty metal. Now you bring me a bunch of lead, now we have something to talk about. The other thing is that people are going to want what they paid for the ring and that is not going to happen, at least not with me.


You're right, but there has never been a time when someone didn't give it a value and that value.

I think we're too far gone to go back to a gold standard or even fractional reserve. As such the price of gold isn't tied to anything such as the economy either. It's only what people perceive it to be worth.

It may continue to be a hedge against inflation, but it might one day just dive as people realize it's nothing more than a soft non reactive metal with good electrical characteristics that's not very common, but not really needed in great quantities either.


----------



## Friknnewguy

cnsper said:


> In reality, gold has no value. It has value only because people give it value. I would take a box of ammo before I took a $1500 ring. The problem is going to be that there is nothing anyone can do with the gold on a practical level. It is just a pretty metal. Now you bring me a bunch of lead, now we have something to talk about. The other thing is that people are going to want what they paid for the ring and that is not going to happen, at least not with me.


I agree . This has always been my opinion as well . Originally I guess the dollar was designed to be a promise of gold , but if the dollar is completely devalued , then it would make sense to me that post SHTF that gold / silver could be devalued as well . I think I would rather be bartering with items people can eat, drink , smoke or tools or ammo .


----------



## Dakine

Well, I appreciate the opinions everyone, please keep them coming.

It sounds like I need to get back on track with buying junk silver coins and ammo mostly. I'm already doing a lot of food prep lately that is taking me much further and thats over and above what I already had.

I was hoping to find more potential return if I invest at least a little in very basic jewelry but food, water, defense would be even more valuable as collapses in countries like Argentina and Yugoslavia have shown us.

or at least so says "some" of the scenarios...


----------



## TNFrank

I personally think gold going to be worthless after SHTF. I mean you can't eat it, you can't make ammo out of it, you can't run a generator or heat your house with it. It's just a prettty, shinny metal, not good for much except making trinkets out of it to ware.
I think ammunition, coffee, tobacco, food, gas, ect will be worth more after SHTF. Folks would pay a lot for a brick of coffee after SHTF, not so much for a brick of gold IMHO.


----------



## k0xxx

I guess that it depends on if you believe that there will be a total societal collapse, of just a economic collapse. I tend to think that it will be the latter. Yet through out history, even during a societal collapse, gold has been used as a trading medium as there was always someone that wanted it. Now, if it's a world wide societal collapse, then maybe not. As far as the Balkans and Argentina, from what I've read from those that went through it, gold was still used in trade.


----------



## Caribou

A friend of mine bought gold several decades back when the price went to $800. Shortly thereafter it dropped to $300. His kids lived long enough to see a profit. Don't buy gold or silver because you are going to make a profit. Buy gold and silver as part of an overall plan. Metals have always had value. They go up and down but never to zero. Go ahead and buy gold jewelry. The plus is that the buyer might think you are destitute and not follow you home. The minus is that he will think you need to accept whatever he offers. Today or tomorrow people who buy gold pay less than they expect to sell it for. Get over it. People who sell bread make a profit too. When you buy shop around for the best price and when you sell do the same. You should have cash also but remember that inflation is the measure of decrease in purchasing power of cash. Today gold is going up, like everything else, due to inflation. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Stocks go up and down as does real estate, the dollar, and most other investments. Typically gold moves counter to other investments and is considered a hedge. 

No, you can't eat gold but if I have something for sale and you want to get rid of your gold or silver I'll gladly take it. Expect me to make the best deal for me. I will expect the same from you.


----------



## invision

I think this is a very interesting thread, with such a wide variety of opinions. However, it's all based on "what ifs" - meaning what if their is complete social collapse, what if their is an EMP attack, what if it is an economic collapse. But let me play devil's advocate here... What if everything continues to just chug along, with no major SHTF scenario. Although IMO I think it is highly unlikely, I still have something called "hope".... And I have a responsibility to myself and family to make wise investments. Now because of my client base, buying stocks and bonds and such are very very limited and highly controlled... So while my wife pours money into 401k, I invest in PMs. Including jewelry. I have a watch that 6 years ago I paid $12k for, today, the same jeweler I bought it from will still buy it for the same amount, because of the one off band that took 9 months to make and ship to the US... The rest of our collection has gone up, diamonds, emeralds, true black Opels, etc plus gold and silver bullion and coins... 

I also believe in history as a guide for the future, I can't remember when gold and silver didn't have a value guys... Wars have been fought, dangerous expeditions traveled, people rushing off to California and Alaska during the "Rush"...all for that shiny object. Yes, at first during the beginning of a SHTF scenario, ammo, food, water will be top. But we are humans and humans are very capitalistic and entrepreneurial in spirit, so eventually - 6 months, 12 months, 24 months, there will come a time when trade routes are created again, and a common universal currency medium will be used... Having PMs, even only a few 1,000 worth, will be worth while. There will be those that build wealth, control trade, run businesses and those that work - just like today, and just thinking that we are all going to live off the land and barter ammo, food, and water 2, 3, 5 years post SHTF will be the ones working for the other.


----------



## preponomics

k0xxx said:


> I guess that it depends on if you believe that there will be a total societal collapse, of just a economic collapse. I tend to think that it will be the latter. Yet through out history, even during a societal collapse, gold has been used as a trading medium as there was always someone that wanted it. Now, if it's a world wide societal collapse, then maybe not. As far as the Balkans and Argentina, from what I've read from those that went through it, gold was still used in trade.


I agree

In six thousand years of recorded history gold has held its own to only appreciate given time for economic stability and even then there are competing markets hungry to get it. Its 100% liquid in almost every modern developed country.


----------



## preponomics

*Gold is here to stay*

(this is my opinion for my personal investing with Gold/Silver) Sorry for all the "me's" and "I's" - just to be clear I am not advising advising anyone financially, but sharing my opinion for what I am doing for myself

I believe that Gold will only move upwards for a long time simply because its attractive and serves all the right criteria for sound money. It's valuable, portable, attractive, internationally supported as money and is rare.

Its true you cant eat it, but its a sure bet for me, as history delivers its stability for thousands of years.

You have to ask yourself what is money? Its anything trade-able (exchangeable) and universally recognized as something valuable. It must be attractive and easy to move (in your pocket traditionally). Gold/silver/copper is so successful because it meets all the right criteria for money. I think its here to stay for hundreds if not thousands of years.

It also does seem obvious to me that in the center of a collapse people will seek food, water, and shelter before gold, however collapse is historically a short experience coupled with depressions, recessions and restructuring where gold and silver is highly strategic. The best strategy in my opinion "for me" is to buy gold at an extreme discount now if possible, simply because its still very undervalued (my opinion) if you consider how many nations are trying to purchase it all up with fiat currencies around the world. Primarily with the dollar and currencies pegged to it. Maybe even more so, silver is better due to the jp morgan fiasco, its demand is higher, its easier to purchase, and its more monetized along with its attractiveness.

To me a mad max styled total collapse is a one-in-a-thousand scenario in my opinion but economic collapse is eminent if a Keynesian economic premise continues. Who knows maybe we can elect politicians to embrace an Austrian economic premise again with sound money, but not likely from what is observed.

I personally believe that the time for metal strategies for investment are going to be over in the next few years as QE strategies will finally inevitably create a dollar bubble. Economic stability will be lost and gold will skyrocket in value. Upon hyper inflation and a dollar crisis gold will be too expensive to afford, which is why I want to buy it now before that happens.

To me its during the collapse and during the first attempts to restructure that gold will be golden because gold/silver will be the only thing trusted for open money and its purchasing power will be at an extreme high point. The strategy then should be "for me" to unload the gold and invest, invest invest as deflation or restructuring will be the next phase where investing is key. How long the potential deflation occurs will depend on how long its propped up, but if it is, then gold could become even more strategic in purchasing other tangible assets.

Economic interventionism is predictable and will probably set up a new perversion of the money supply and banking system that will "save us". It helps them transfer wealth invisibly. If that happens again then gold also will serve me well if they don't oppressively try to seize it like FDR did.

To me the largest risk to gold is the state taking it.

Jewelry vs bullion - I agree that bullion is superior for trade but in a modern economy gold is gold is gold. Its easy to test it and there are more places than one can count that will buy it no matter its carat. Its 100% liquid in good times and bad. The only thing you have to be careful of is how much the bullion/refiner exchange company charges you to buy and sell. I suggest never paying more than 3% to 5% to buy or sell. However the deals of the year come from estate sales, auctions and garage sells for jewelry. You can sometimes buy gold/silver CHEAP! Just make sure you know what your buying. 

Gold and silver have a look to them that plated items don't have. Lost wax castings are porous under a 10 power loop (unless the caster is an artist) and fabricated jewelry have solder points that look different than plated items. Also plated items sound different when hitting a solid surface (glass counter is real good) if that's a luxury, and most plated jewelry has a consistent color over the solder points that are uniform. Typically gold solder is a different color than the casted or fabricated gold metal.

Also rhodium plated jewelry has a shiny light grey color to it where as raw silver is prone to tarnish. It also has a different sheen to it than white gold or silver, but is no problem. Just beware as cheap jewelry metals can also be rhodium plated.

Bottom line is that if you will familiarize yourself with gold and silver jewelry next to plated items you will see differences 95 percent of the time.


----------



## nomadjanet

I read a book once where a guy used gold wedding bands for barter. His theory was that if you pull out gold coins; even in fractional bits the other person thinks there is more to be bartered for but if you pull off your wedding band and say; this is all I have of value, they are more to cut you a deal. I don't think it would be a bad thing to have a few gold wedding bands in my get home bag but I would not make it my investment portfolio.


----------



## cowboyhermit

I just wanted to chime in that gold is an immensely useful material, having worked with it in it's different forms, that has become clear to me. It's use in most applications is limited only by it's price and scarcity. 
It is non-toxic and extremely corrosion resistant, hence it is one of the only metals safe for use in dentistry.
It is only behind silver and copper as a conductor but is much less susceptible to corrosion, so it is used on many essential connections. 
If it was not so valuable there are many more things that we would use it for. Makes for some heavy bullets too.


----------



## BillS

cnsper said:


> In reality, gold has no value. It has value only because people give it value. I would take a box of ammo before I took a $1500 ring. The problem is going to be that there is nothing anyone can do with the gold on a practical level. It is just a pretty metal. Now you bring me a bunch of lead, now we have something to talk about. The other thing is that people are going to want what they paid for the ring and that is not going to happen, at least not with me.


You're wrong for a number of reasons. You're assuming a collapse will last forever and we'll never come out of it. You're assuming that gold will have no use in our future society when gold has always been used in jewelry and dentistry. Even if the collapse is permanent people will still want gold wedding rings. The wealthy will still use it as a way to store wealth and buy property. People who can afford it will still want gold fillings. You're also assuming that because you see no value in it that nobody else will either. We've had this debate more times than I can count and it wasn't even the purpose of the thread.


----------



## BillS

The big reason you wouldn't want to buy gold rings to use in barter is that after the collapse there will be as many free rings as you want to take from all the dead bodies that are lying around. I wouldn't rob the dead but I'm sure there are a lot of people who would.


----------



## bigdaddy

BillS said:


> The big reason you wouldn't want to buy gold rings to use in barter is that after the collapse there will be as many free rings as you want to take from all the dead bodies that are lying around. I wouldn't rob the dead but I'm sure there are a lot of people who would.


I think you oughta collect or produce liquor for barter in the future as long as you yourself are not a drinker would be a good market


----------



## invision

bigdaddy said:


> I think you oughta collect or produce liquor for barter in the future as long as you yourself are not a drinker would be a good market


That is one of my preps, not only in the bottle like JD, and vodka, but ability and knowledge to make it too.


----------



## Dakine

invision said:


> That is one of my preps, not only in the bottle like JD, and vodka, but ability and knowledge to make it too.


In the event of a collapse I don't think many would be wandering about looking to question the legality of a still, but having the materials on hand to carry out the plan makes me wonder how it work. Corn you can buy now, and perhaps where some people are it grows right outside their door, but not here, also you need sugar... and then you need yeast.


----------



## invision

Dakine said:


> In the event of a collapse I don't think many would be wandering about looking to question the legality of a still, but having the materials on hand to carry out the plan makes me wonder how it work. Corn you can buy now, and perhaps where some people are it grows right outside their door, but not here, also you need sugar... and then you need yeast.


That's true... But that is why you have ingredients stocked so you can do a few run if SHTF... Don't know where you are, but corn grows here... Yeast will be the unknown for me after it is consumed...


----------



## cowboyhermit

This thread was about gold but can't help it.
For good liquor, hard or otherwise you do not need sugar, in fact the opposite is true.
Barley, rye, wheat, potatoes, fruit of many kinds and my favorite Honey are the best feedstocks you can get.
Yeast is really not an issue, they were making alcohol long before hermetically sealed packaging


----------



## invision

cowboyhermit said:


> This thread was about gold but can't help it.
> For good liquor, hard or otherwise you do not need sugar, in fact the opposite is true.
> Barley, rye, wheat, potatoes, fruit of many kinds and my favorite Honey are the best feedstocks you can get.
> Yeast is really not an issue, they were making alcohol long before hermetically sealed packaging


Thanks for the info! Sorry to get off topic too.


----------



## Dakine

its my thread, in so far as my original question... I'm not calling foul on the alcohol discussion. keep it up!


----------



## cowboyhermit

I am by no means an expert on primitive brewing, I just know it works. Around honey for instance there are a lot of wild yeasts, the trick is to make sure they get ahead of the bacteria so you don't end up with vinegar, I never do so have to make vinegar on purpose.
Any kind of yeast will work as well, there is a poplar recipe for mead using bread making yeast, of course it is usually better to use varieties better suited to the task.
I know they are not practical for a lot of people but I think bees are a great resource for preparedness.


----------



## lotsoflead

Gold and silver rings, jewelry with gold-silver will always have value. During the Weimar Republic Gernamy 1921-24, people with tons of cash were starving, but if they had a silver or gold ring they could eat for a week. yrs ago,in the 80s I tossed out several gold rings that were 10-14 carat and have been kicking my self every since.


----------



## k0xxx

Well said *lotsoflead*. Gold jewelry will have value for converting into whatever currency is being used. Granted, it may not be of as much use for bartering for a can of beans, but for a hedge against a monetary collapse, it will be useful. That being said, having extra food to trade, and a means of testing jewelry, could be a way to make some money in some situations.


----------



## LincTex

Yeast can be cultured and reproduced.... when you find a strain you like, there are ways to grow more of it, for more batches. The big breweries kept their yeast strains "top secret".

Simple Detection of Wild Yeast and Yeast Stability
By Rodney L. Morris 
http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.3/morris.html


----------

