# Perimeter security



## 8thDayStranger

Ok. My plan, if I HAVE to bug out is to hit the woods. I have access to family land deep in a national forest. Unfortunately I have never seen the land nor do I know what's available on it. I do know it has a good water source. I plan on going there in the next few weeks to check it out and start on setting up a secure camp. If I have to bug out it means that things have gotten very bad so I plan to stay in the forest for a couple months, then see about "occupying" a more suitable home unless I hit the jackpot between now and then and can build my own fortified retreat. 

Here is my question. What forms of perimeter security do you guys suggest for a woods camp? Since I don't know the features of the land lets say its on flat ground, no natural defense (mountains etc...) and has a decent creek running through it. I already plan to encircle the entire camp in thorn bushes and barbed wire if I can. Suspend a large tarp over the main camp to provide aerial cover and make "walls" of branches and such to conceal everything as best as I can. So thoughts on early warning systems? Don't plan on having power there.


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## Sentry18

I think you are spot on with the thorn bushes and natural barriers. The more artificial it looks the more an intruder will realize there is something a head worth taking. The more natural it looks the more he/she may just move over and move on to avoid it. Without knowing the land it is difficult to say what natural barriers exist there.


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## BillM

I am too old to take to the woods for very long but if I had to, I would try to hunkerdown in as sheltered and camoflaged location as possable. I would look for a place where water was accessable and where i had more than one egress from the area. I would use some premiter warning devices such as tripwires and noise makers. At night I would rigg silent alarm devises to wake me if an intruder got too close. I would use a Dakota fire pit to cook and heat with so as not to alert anyone as to my whereabouts. A catch of supplys in such a location right now would aid you later if you have to suddenly flee home.


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## 8thDayStranger

So what are good methods of hiding a small cache of supplies? I'm in the south so obviously heat and humidity will be a factor. Perhaps burying an aluminum flight case?


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## Genevieve

Dogs. and not those yappy little pieces of snack food for my dogs ( *snickers*) They make outstanding guards and alarms. All I have to do is watch my dogs to know if something or someone is around or coming up the lane before I can even see or hear them.

A good dog is worth their weight in food IMO


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## Genevieve

8thDayStranger said:


> So what are good methods of hiding a small cache of supplies? I'm in the south so obviously heat and humidity will be a factor. Perhaps burying an aluminum flight case?


If you buried tubes in the ground then they would stay cooler. There are tubes made for weapons to be buried. I suppose you could use mylar and o2's and then place them in the tubes. They're suppose to be moisture proof.


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## 8thDayStranger

I will have my dogs with me but all it takes is saying squirrel to get my beagle going. Ill be making a lot of wasted patrols with her. I was reading on another site about battery driveway alarms and magnetic trip wire alarms. I'm wondering if an audible alarm will make folks curious as to what's being protected. May look at silent alarms.


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## -JohnD-

8thDayStranger said:


> I will have my dogs with me but all it takes is saying squirrel to get my beagle going. Ill be making a lot of wasted patrols with her. I was reading on another site about battery driveway alarms and magnetic trip wire alarms. I'm wondering if an audible alarm will make folks curious as to what's being protected. May look at silent alarms.


Might look at ways to run them off solar power and any that have chimes can be converted to led lights by just disconnecting the buzzer/chime/speaker and soldering on the light. The down side of silent alarms like this is someone has to be watching for them. You might try moving the "noisemaker" to inside the camp by hiding small gauge wire.


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## hiwall

In most places in the USA barb wire fences are common. I'd fence it with 3 or 4 strand barb wire. Many that come to a fence will walk down it to try to go around rather than climb.


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## PackerBacker

hiwall said:


> In most places in the USA barb wire fences are common. I'd fence it with 3 or 4 strand barb wire. Many that come to a fence will walk down it to try to go around rather than climb.


3 or 4 barb wires won't do a thing except annoy you for a split second.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I saw a cool youtube vid once where a guy rigged up trip alams that set off 22 lr rounds. You could use the powderless roinds so sound doesnt carry far. In conjunction with briars that might work. A gun shot might not only warn you but also scare folks off. Also they have perimeter motion sensing alarms that are battery powered with a really decent range. Beeps at base camp receiver. Im sure you could rig the receiver to a head phone but it does have a volume control knob to adjust how loud it beeps. Gonna see em this weekend. Ill check range, volume control, price and brand name and get back to you.


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## 8thDayStranger

CrackbottomLouis said:


> I saw a cool youtube vid once where a guy rigged up trip alams that set off 22 lr rounds. You could use the powderless roinds so sound doesnt carry far. In conjunction with briars that might work. A gun shot might not only warn you but also scare folks off. Also they have perimeter motion sensing alarms that are battery powered with a really decent range. Beeps at base camp receiver. Im sure you could rig the receiver to a head phone but it does have a volume control knob to adjust how loud it beeps. Gonna see em this weekend. Ill check range, volume control, price and brand name and get back to you.


That would be awesome!! Cheers brother!


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## cnsper

8thDayStranger said:


> So what are good methods of hiding a small cache of supplies? I'm in the south so obviously heat and humidity will be a factor. Perhaps burying an aluminum flight case?


Metal will sweat. I would look into pelican cases or even PVC that you can seal up with stuff inside. Just add a handwarmer before you close it up to eat up the oxygen.


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## 8thDayStranger

PackerBacker said:


> 3 or 4 barb wires won't do a thing except annoy you for a split second.


If I laid down loose coils it should cause enough entanglement to give me a little head start though. And if its just civilian intruders I'm sure a string of curses will be involved as well.


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## cnsper

Coils mean that there is something to hide. Barbed wire with solar charger and hot wires in between the strands of barbed wire and one on top. People don't like electricity.


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## 8thDayStranger

cnsper said:


> Coils mean that there is something to hide. Barbed wire with solar charger and hot wires in between the strands of barbed wire and one on top. People don't like electricity.


The coils will go behind the briars. If they've gone that far, they are already determined to assault.


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## 8thDayStranger

cnsper said:


> Metal will sweat. I would look into pelican cases or even PVC that you can seal up with stuff inside. Just add a handwarmer before you close it up to eat up the oxygen.


I never thought about using large PVC pipes. That would work. Seal one end with a glued cap and put a screw on cap on the other end with a little rtv around the outside. Good idea


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## cnsper

8thDayStranger said:


> The coils will go behind the briars. If they've gone that far, they are already determined to assault.


I am assuming you are talking about blackberry bushes so I would put it in the middle and let them grow up around it.

Another idea is Hawthorne trees. They have more uses than just protection such as thorns to make fish hooks and leaves to make tea.

Or even better...

Hawthorne trees in the middle of the briars... LOL Then you will not have a need for barbed wire.


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## 8thDayStranger

I've got a Hawthorne on my property that needs trimming. Guess what trees not getting trimmed lol. I gotta scout the spot soon. I may just have a nice briar patch to clear the middle of for a camp but then again there may not be a briar on the place. It's Alabama woods so I'm banking on the likelihood of many briar patches. 

I've also contemplated a trench of pungi spikes all around the camp but I may forget and have an accident trying to piss in the middle of the night.


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## cnsper

That kind of stuff needs to be left until SHTF because of the liability issues in today's world. Never mind that they are trespassing.


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## Magus

I used rat traps with percussion caps mounted on screw heads.sounded like a bomb went off,lol


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## 8thDayStranger

Magus said:


> I used rat traps with percussion caps mounted on screw heads.sounded like a bomb went off,lol


Another good idea. I had thought about building a few old zip guns loaded with blanks but the mousetraps sound much less time consuming.


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## jsriley5

Nothing beats a living breathing person awake and alert. I"d go for total stealth no wire or anything and beef up natural prevention like brambles and briars. Maybe evn plant and transplant dual purpose things like black berries but always sticking to a random natural layout . and first off locating a place that is not likely to encourage random passersby. Then make it less likely with the added plant growth. And keep a human watch alert watching and listening. If alone I"d keep it really small deep in the brambles and sleep with one eye open. Anything human you do to secure an area will just draw undue attention. And a Bang rap going of may be misinterpreted as a attack and put a random wanderer into attack and kill mode. How are they to know there wasnt' a bullet that missed them? Meanwhile a properly concealed camp might be passed at very close range and never even be noticed. Guess I'm just saying stealth is or would be my primary security plan if the group is begger than that then live eyes on watch would be my plan.


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## BillM

*I agree*



jsriley5 said:


> Nothing beats a living breathing person awake and alert. I"d go for total stealth no wire or anything and beef up natural prevention like brambles and briars. Maybe evn plant and transplant dual purpose things like black berries but always sticking to a random natural layout . and first off locating a place that is not likely to encourage random passersby. Then make it less likely with the added plant growth. And keep a human watch alert watching and listening. If alone I"d keep it really small deep in the brambles and sleep with one eye open. Anything human you do to secure an area will just draw undue attention. And a Bang rap going of may be misinterpreted as a attack and put a random wanderer into attack and kill mode. How are they to know there wasnt' a bullet that missed them? Meanwhile a properly concealed camp might be passed at very close range and never even be noticed. Guess I'm just saying stealth is or would be my primary security plan if the group is begger than that then live eyes on watch would be my plan.


Bingo !

If you camoflage your camp right , an intruder should be able to pass within a few feet of you and never know you were there.


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## seanallen

Magus said:


> I used rat traps with percussion caps mounted on screw heads.sounded like a bomb went off,lol


Why not do it right and use shotgun shells? Knee busters, ya know?


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## 8thDayStranger

I'd thought about the whole stealth thing. I just worry about someone even stealthier coming along. I'm not military trained or a Kung fu master. I'd like all the advanced warning I can get.


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## MetalPrepper

We were talking about perimeter control earlier ...and husband said bury ieds.....and arm them when/if SHTF.....I liked it....alot


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## MetalPrepper

with trip wires ....


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## MetalPrepper

OK...that makes my husband sound like a terrorist...LOL...we were watching army dogs warriors and saw how freekin easy IEDs are to make....duh....and how horrible they are to be hit with and how scary they are....so we arm our backside that faces the water with them....I like it


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## 8thDayStranger

Us Army Improvised Munitions Manual is free on the web. Looks pretty interesting. 

I've been running IED designs through my head just in case things ever got that bad. Would never even build one unless all civilization collapsed but knowledge is power.


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## swjohnsey

The only one an IED is likely to get is you.


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## pandamonium

jsriley5 said:


> Nothing beats a living breathing person awake and alert. I"d go for total stealth no wire or anything and beef up natural prevention like brambles and briars. Maybe evn plant and transplant dual purpose things like black berries but always sticking to a random natural layout . and first off locating a place that is not likely to encourage random passersby. Then make it less likely with the added plant growth. And keep a human watch alert watching and listening. If alone I"d keep it really small deep in the brambles and sleep with one eye open. Anything human you do to secure an area will just draw undue attention. And a Bang rap going of may be misinterpreted as a attack and put a random wanderer into attack and kill mode. How are they to know there wasnt' a bullet that missed them? Meanwhile a properly concealed camp might be passed at very close range and never even be noticed. Guess I'm just saying stealth is or would be my primary security plan if the group is begger than that then live eyes on watch would be my plan.


 This^^^

The best defense is to go unnoticed. The random briars, brush piles, fallen trees, more brush piles is good. Make your spot someplace a "traveler" would go around, rather than through. Try to keep it natural looking. Disturb the area as little as possible. 
Remember, while you are hunkered down, you still have plenty of chores to do to be able to stay there for a couple months. Your shelter needs to be as invisible as possible. I like one made where you excavate out your desired area to a depth of about two or three feet, piling the removed dirt on the side of the excavated area, essentially making the hole deeper, this maintains a low profile to the surrounding area. Build an "A" frame from saplings, run a ridge beam, (another sapling), more saplings for rafters, be sure to use sturdy enough materials to support the thing when it is wet, and cover your"roof" with a tarp. Cover the tarp with leaves or whatever debris you moved to dig, about a foot thick. A few dead branches on top and your shelter will be just about invisible, water tight and easy to heat, if needed.
I would avoid anything that would draw more attention, any early warning systems you put in place should be of natural origins, vines, dead falls, sprung branches designed to slap someone upside the face if they pass through your funnel. Funnel? yeah, encourage the path of travel, brush, brambles/briars, will lead someone along the path of least resistance. Most people will take the path of least resistance, especially when they are trying to be "stealthy". :laugh:

Avoid anything that could possibly injure someone unless all bets are off and the SHTF is REAL!!! Keep it simple, keep it looking like nature put it there. Mind your noise discipline. AND BE VIGILANT!!


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## HamiltonFelix

I like the perimeter alarm devices. Have ideas to make them affordably.

We just bought a bunch of barbed wire, insulators, staples and a "50 mile" charger. For now, we're planning 6 ft. fence, six strands, every other strand "hot," alternate strands grounded. That charger should be an attention-getter on our 14 mile or so of fence. And when TS really HTF, I'm an electrical worker and I can figure out a way to make the fence really hazardous to life and health.

My wife wanted razor ribbon, after a winch got stolen from my trailer. And this is from an ex-cop who knows what the stuff can do. Back in Texas in a prison, they had a guy try escaping over two razor wire fences. He had material to thow onto the fence and made it past one fence and tackled the second. Somehow he fell back and ended up entangled in the first fence. He bled to death before they got him out of it.

I convinced my sweet and loving wife that razor wire gets you talked about, but barbed wire fences are common in these parts. Keep the coils of razor wire ready for when TSHTF, then drop 'em quickly along your fence.

I like the perimeter devices that use a 12 gauge blank and can be screwed to a tree or post. Since they are just a shellholder, they're legal, even in anti-gun England where they call them Gamekeeper Alarms. But they are too expensive, around $30.

I bought one a few years ago, took it to a Machinist friend who made a few really nice ones. But figuring his time and materials, his were also quite expensive. I recently picked up a handful of $1 Victor mouse traps. I have scraps of leftover roofing sheetmetal, tinsnips and plenty of wood screws. I'm thinking I can make a shellholder using a Greenlee knockout punch or something similar, instead of a 3/4" drill. It should make a hole in the tin and cut half a diameter from the wooden end of the trap.

I need to modify a pair of pliers or Vise-Grips so I can squeeze the bail of each trap once and create a fairly sharp little V in the center. That will strike the primer, and will eliminate the need to attach a screw, nail or other "firing pin." I recently made some New Year's Eve blanks that were thunderous in my 18" shotgun. 12 gauge shell full of Bullseye powder. Heck of a flashbang and even had considerable recoil. Those should work. Anyone tripping it would not stick around to see if the next shot missed. :laugh:

Past experiments show that a standard birdshot round in such a shellholder device will barely make a pop and is likely to split along the side and not even open the crimp. A shotshell is impotent if not contained in a chamber. That's why these things are legal.

I will _not_ suggest that one might make a "shotgun mine" by slipping a scrap of 3/4" pipe over the 12 gauge round and angling it toward the tripwire. Doing so would be making an illegal short shotgun and would invite federal prosecution. So - like the prohibition era grape juice label that warned you not mix with a specific amount of sugar and ferment for a specific time because illegal alcohol would result - I am warning you that such a shotgun mine would be illegal. Of course, in a true TSHTF situation, it would also disable an intruder and probably occupy a couple of others getting the injured one back to where he could get care.

Same warning goes for the old Vietnam era "footbreaker," which can be made from just about any stray round of ammo, a scrap of wood, a screw and little more. They will mess up a foot or puncture a tire, but they would be illegal booby traps...

I am giving thought to a spike strip directly under my seldom-used back gate. It would be concealed by dead leaves and other growth, located so a person on foot clipping the chain would likely not encounter it, but a vehicle would lose a couple of tires.

We have motion sensor lights, partially lighted perimeter, yard lights, even on motion sensor that gives audible warning, tracks movement and records a visual clip. We want a couple of good dogs, but have held off until we get the place properly fenced.

I do like natural barriers. Nobody wants to crawl through a mess of Evergreen or Himalaya blackberry bushes. Nasty thornbushes are great.


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## Killzo

My recomendation would be don't bother with any elaborate systems. If your in a national forest, seek out a guide or forest ranger, etc and ask him where to avoid when bushwalking.

Then when you scout, head to the area he said was the worst. Generally speaking if its bad, you won't need anything else. If you end up bugging out there just trace braid fishing line around the area at random intervils so if someone tries to sneak up the will hopefully hit then and maje some noise. This way if its a large group you can still make a hasty getaway.

Just remember, if you do this use braid line, as nilon is alot easier to spot, expecially in the sun.


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## eddy_dvyvan

I would like to build a ha-ha wall around the house. That way I have a good view across the property of the livestock but still have protection from intrusion. Also the low side could act as a water resevoir. Alot of work to build but very low maintence compared to fencing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha


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## sgtrunningfool

Just remember every thing you put in to keep people out makes it harder for you to egress, so need to find the balance.


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## oldasrocks

NO NOISEMAKERS! You're just telling people for a long way around there is something there. Take the good advice above and keep it natural. As it advises in Art of War --funnel the enemy. Plant blackberry bushes across trails, Crown Vetch, or similar vegetation that impedes foot travel.


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## BillM

If you are in a heavely wooded area, it isn't what you hear that should warn you of intruders.

It is what you don't hear.

When the birds stop chirping and the toads stop calling .

When everything goes silent, watch for the movement of birds and squirles away fron any outlieing area around your possition.

That is the direction your intruder is coming from.


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## gaspump86

BillM said:


> If you are in a heavely wooded area, it isn't what you hear that should warn you of intruders.
> 
> It is what you don't hear.
> 
> When the birds stop chirping and the toads stop calling .
> 
> When everything goes silent, watch for the movement of birds and squirles away fron any outlieing area around your possition.
> 
> That is the direction your intruder is coming from.


What if all that stops because of your own movement?


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## gaspump86

I plan to dig at least 2 fox holes close to my camp. This way I figure if there is a threat and I see or hear it coming, I can have the element of surprise.


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## swjohnsey

And it can double as a grave.


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## BillM

*If you*



gaspump86 said:


> What if all that stops because of your own movement?


If you remain in one location and keep your noise level down, you won't disturbe the wildlife much except in your immediate area.

What you normally hear is the birds and frogs singing around your perimitor.

When any large mammal enters their immediat area, they stop singing and fly away from the intruder.

It is an alarm when you hear them stop singing and you see the birds and squirles moving in the perimitor.

Black is a good cammo clothing choice in the woods.

Boone wore black buckskins and a black felt hat when he went on his hunting expeditions into KY.

He stated that you could never see an indian in the forrest but if you looked for his gun barrel you would spot that first.

there are no perfictly straight items in nature.


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## LongRider

8thDayStranger said:


> I have access to family land deep in a national forest. Unfortunately I have never seen the land nor do I know what's available on it.


I do not know how anyone has "family land" deep in a national forest. Surrounded by maybe? We bought our land based upon its location and defensibility. I do not know how you can plan defenses of property you have never seen. Thorn bushes, barbed wire, fences, hides, surveillance, are all irrelevant until you know what you are dealing with. Not until you know the lay of the land, likely access points, available routes to the land, you can not plan any effective defenses IMHO.


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## 8thDayStranger

LongRider said:


> I do not know how anyone has "family land" deep in a national forest. Surrounded by maybe? We bought our land based upon its location and defensibility. I do not know how you can plan defenses of property you have never seen. Thorn bushes, barbed wire, fences, hides, surveillance, are all irrelevant until you know what you are dealing with. Not until you know the lay of the land, likely access points, available routes to the land, you can not plan any effective defenses IMHO.


Just getting general ideas I said from the start I don't know what's on it. And yes it is surrounded by it. I don't see how your post was at all beneficial to the conversation. I think getting ideas of types of security features and ideas is helpful to plan once I do get to see it.


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## LongRider

8thDayStranger said:


> Just getting general ideas I said from the start I don't know what's on it. And yes it is surrounded by it. I don't see how your post was at all beneficial to the conversation. I think getting ideas of types of security features and ideas is helpful to plan once I do get to see it.


You asked. I answered. Not knowing what you are looking at is just pissing in the wind. The are million's of security options none of them are effective everywhere. That is why the military and private security contractors do recon FIRST.


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## HamiltonFelix

In keeping with this topic, we just bought *Barbed Wire, Barricades, and Bunkers: The Free Citizen's Guide to Fortifying the Home Retreat [Paperback] *

Twelve bucks at Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...e+to+Fortifying+the+Home+Retreat+[Paperback]+

Seems to be a pretty good discussion of options for barriers and bunkers, including quite a bit of good advice on making them safely (so they don't end up harming you).

Fairly short and easy read, but I think it covers the topic pretty well. At least it gets you thinking.

This is about protecting your perimeter, your land, but not really about fortifying a building. If you want to turn your house into a bulletproof fort, you will want more sources of info. But this book opens your eyes about protecting your land with fences, entanglements and fighting positions.


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## 8thDayStranger

Looks like an awesome book!


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## Grape Ape

gaspump86 said:


> What if all that stops because of your own movement?


Animals will stop and move to avoid a person, at least until the become used to them. The animals will quiet and hide for a minute or five if you are out and about then they will resume their activities after they become comfortable with you, only to stop again when you are joined. So even if you are out and about a new threat that enters the area will cause the animals to react. They are an excellent alarm for you. But only if you are in tune with them and paying attention to your surroundings.


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## 8thDayStranger

So I went today to check out the location. It's a little closer to people than I like but let's just say they look like people who will not last long. 

There's a rocky trail going up a mountain. It's about 1/4-1/3 mile with a couple of sharp switchbacks. It all leads to the top of a small mountain/knob with pretty steep valleys all the way around and larger mountains on either side that are on wildlife management land. Only one side didn't have clear line of sight down the valley. 

The ground all around is very rocky. It's on a mountain so that's expected. There was a lot of pig ruts around so there's food there. I'm going back this week to camp and hike it all and find water. Theres gotta be a creek in the valley. 

It's not ideal but it'll do in an emergency. Ill know more when I spend more time exploring it.


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## jeremiyah

Here is a little sumpin that can be used for perimeter security:






compare to this:


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## millertimedoneright

Clear monofilament fishing line strung around the perimeter with fish hooks dangling every 12"...anyone sneaking around at night will get some hooks in them and get tangled...I promise u if they get tangled u will know abt it...u could also possibly catch some animals used for food purposes also...this is only to be used in a true shtf situation due to liability purposes


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## LongRider

Genevieve said:


> Dogs. and not those yappy little pieces of snack food for my dogs ( *snickers*) They make outstanding guards and alarms.


I think those yappy little dogs make far better alarms than big dogs. Which is the primary reason for a dog(s) IMO. As an example our big guy never barks. Of course they will guard and protect when I am gone. But most of the time all I want, is for them to alert me. Which little dogs do a better job of, that is why they are known as yappy little dogs. Not that I would ever own one, just sayin give credit where credit is due


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## Grape Ape

Perimeter security is something I have been working on for a while. The system I am working on is designed as a warning system for the person inside the area and is triggered by IR sensors. The sensors are taken from security system used in buildings, but repurposed for outdoor middle of a field type use. Instead of being tied into an indoor system with a 120volts ac power supply and a transformer in the system to provide 12-48volts dc. Each IR beam is powered by batteries as are the sensors. Each sensor set up is connected to a wireless rf transmitter that sends its signal to a receiver that can be designed to make noise, vibrate or light a light, or all of the above. The system can be set up with solar chargers for the batteries, to make them almost forgettable or you they can be designed for a weekly battery change to allow for checking of the system to ensure all is good. It also can also let you know if the batteries are low. If the sensors get out of line or are blocked you will be given an alarm. 

The advantages of the system are.

1. Sensors can be placed anywhere as long as they have line of sight and depending on the sensor can be placed up to 1320 ft apart to allow you to watch all along the side of a piece of property. 

2. Sensors can be addressed so you know which sensors were triggered so you know where to look for intruders.

3. Antennas can be placed on the sensors to increase the range of the rf system allowing for the warning signal to be up to 1.5 miles depending on conditions.

4. The system is scalable you can have one sensor pair set to warn if someone comes up a driveway, up to as many sensors pairs as you need to completely surround even the largest parcels of land. 

5. Everything can be mounted in watertight boxes or such to allow them to be used in all weather.

6. Being that you only need a sensor set and each set is independent from the others you can use natural terrain features, brush and other methods that have been discussed earlier and only use the sensors in the the funnels you have provided for access to your property. 
The limits of the system are.

1. Sensors have to be placed line of sight to each other. So long distances with rolling terrain or ravines etc... can be hard to protect. 

2. Fog and such can be an issue

3. Transmitter and receiver issues, hey it is electrical and fallible.

4. While they can be camouflaged it is still something you are setting out at the edge of your area that can be found. If found by intruders before they trigger it, they can set up an ambush situation for you and then trigger it waiting for your response. 

5. False triggers such as animals can cause you to become immune to it's signal and then you fail to respond when there is an actual intruder you need to be concerned with. 

6. Finally, cost. The system can get expensive very fast. Depending on the range the sensors must handle. Sensors designed for a driveway would be around $60 and the long range ones can get up above $400. The range the rf transmitter needs to be able to send a signal, and how many sensors you need to use because each sensor pair requires the sensor and receiver, an RF transmitter, and batteries. With the addition of an antenna and solar charger if requested. So it may be out of the range of the average prepper but for someone with money or a group of people wanting to secure an area and give them early warning. I designed a 4 pair sensor system with long range sensors batteries designed to be recharged remotely and swapped out weekly with long range rf transmitters and antennas to boost the signal with a single receiver designed to turn on a light cost upwards of $7500 just for parts with no money in the mix for me. So you can see the numbers can get high real quick.


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## Fn/Form

How many false alarms by deer or other fauna large enough to trip the microwave/PIR on your motion detectors? 

I don't know of any indoor motions suitable for permanent outdoor use. True outdoor motions and laser beam detectors are available... but they aren't cheap or wireless.

I'm thinking about a large, fenced ring of attack chimpanzees.


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## readytogo

*hiding a small cache*



8thDayStranger said:


> So what are good methods of hiding a small cache of supplies? I'm in the south so obviously heat and humidity will be a factor. Perhaps burying an aluminum flight case?


Underground in plastic 5 gallon buckets, the ground makes a nice thermal barrier, I used to make time capsules of PVC pipe to buried money, ammo, weapon, snacks, water pouches; totally water proof just by using silicon sealant, for long time storage just use pvc cement, mark location on a topographical map, don't trust GPS.On my camping trips that`s how I protected my stuff, by dig a hole under my tent floor or shelter, or outside the cabin in the woods, also a good idea to have copies of important documents totally seal in pvc with oxygen absorbers .


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## Grape Ape

Fn/Form said:


> How many false alarms by deer or other fauna large enough to trip the microwave/PIR on your motion detectors?
> 
> I don't know of any indoor motions suitable for permanent outdoor use. True outdoor motions and laser beam detectors are available... but they aren't cheap or wireless.
> 
> I'm thinking about a large, fenced ring of attack chimpanzees.


I mentioned false alarms due to other animals. In the situation it was originally designed for animal triggers would not be an issue, but in the prepper security in the woods situation it would be a problem.

I used the indoor security example as something most people have seen and would understand. The cost comes from using dedicated outdoor equipment. The laser beam detectors are not wireless but can be built into a remote system where the sensor triggers the transmitter to send a signal. Not exactly the easiest solution but it works.

I thought about the fenced ring of attack chimpanzees, but I thought of the added supplies I would have to plan into my preps to maintain them, plus I really don't want to go up to feed them and have attack chimpanzees use their amazing skills and muscles to throw poop at me. The added items to my preps shelvs wasn't much of an issue, but yeah getting poop thrown at me by ninja chimps, not so much. So yep I went electronic.


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## *Andi

Grape Ape said:


> I thought about the fenced ring of attack chimpanzees, but I thought of the added supplies I would have to plan into my preps to maintain them, plus I really don't want to go up to feed them and have attack chimpanzees use their amazing skills and muscles to throw poop at me. The added items to my preps shelvs wasn't much of an issue, but yeah getting poop thrown at me by ninja chimps, not so much. So yep I went electronic.


Thanks for the smile! 

I didn't go for attack chimpanzees but ...


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## readytogo

I can`t divulged all my secrets but here are some old army field manual security ideas converted to civilian use.






12 g holder















22 cal holder







party poppers







12 g holder







the ultimate security


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## readytogo

*Homemade Security*

You can make as many as you need on the cheap.
small 9v buzzer, mouse trap, fishing line, bar soap holder for battery case, 
9volt battery clip and a few tools.






one wire to the spring and the other to a copper strip attach to trap, once the trap is trip it will make like a switch tripping the buzzer and catching your Mouse:2thumb:


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## Shammua

Hmmmm perimeter security
Well I glazed over most of what was on here, my eyes are hurting but I wanted to comment anyway.

I would for sure go with the most natural barriers like the briars and what not as well.
Also if there are any ditches or ravines try to make the near side as steep as possible, if it's eight feet deep and straight up and down, bad guys usually will go find a different way or just leave.
To add an extra layer of security I would recommend Dakota Wireless stuff (Yeah I can get it as a retailer so it's cheap from me) I will be doing the same for my property.
Here is a link I am talking about http://www.dakotaalert.com/catb2b1/index.php?cPath=36

This can be an added layer that can be easily hidden and setup. It can be your first line of alert.

*Admin's if I did this wrong with posting about me being able to get this stuff for anyone please let me know, it's sort of a sales plug, but mainly just my 2 cents on this topic...


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## Sybil6

I live in thick woods, with my mom and my nosy father. I camp out a lot, and my father likes to try and sneak up on me. I took natural ways to secure just my little campsite (and my long term BOL). If you have briars that travel along the ground and up trees, you can cut and regrow them together, leaving one trail out. It's easy for me since I'm small, and stay mostly tree-bound. The briars, twirled together and stretched out. It looks natural and can serve as trip wires and all-natural barb wire. I can hear him falling, cussing, and storming around pissed at the cuts from mile away. Tip: WEAR LEATHER GLOVES!! It's easy to twist the wires, leather jacket and gloves will keep them from scratching you. And guess what? Cost= 0.00$


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## driftpin

I found the cheapest way to go that is simple to set up with minimal false alarms is monofilament line with a modified mouse trap that holds a primed shotgun hull, usually I just use the ones that won't take a crimp anymore due to cracking and with the help of some small eye bolts. I suppose I a total all out SHTF situation you could use loaded shells but even then it could be extremely dangerous to friendlies. Even the poppers I made with the primed hulls that I built them so the hull points up but they could easily be changed to point down the trail. Monofilament with even a Walmart size bag with some tin cans in them looped over a tree branch with a small trigger will work to but I prefer the shotgun hull. It alerts me and has a psychological effect on the intruder. 

Electronic ones work just as well too. while you're at the dump, look for lights that have the motion sensors on them and just take the motion sensors, job dumpsters on commercial remodels are good spots to look (or you can just buy them). The can be easily wired up to alert you with a piezo buzzer or a light without the intruder knowing he's been detected. Then you can pull a joe Biden on him and fire both barrels of your side by side at him and scare him away. Lol. Because joes wife has probably had to do that quite a bit and its a very good technique. Not!!

I made one for alerting me to cars coming up my driveway.


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## driftpin

Course you can't beat animals that bark when they hear something go bump at 0300.


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## BillM

*silent alarm*



driftpin said:


> I found the cheapest way to go that is simple to set up with minimal false alarms is monofilament line with a modified mouse trap that holds a primed shotgun hull, usually I just use the ones that won't take a crimp anymore due to cracking and with the help of some small eye bolts. I suppose I a total all out SHTF situation you could use loaded shells but even then it could be extremely dangerous to friendlies. Even the poppers I made with the primed hulls that I built them so the hull points up but they could easily be changed to point down the trail. Monofilament with even a Walmart size bag with some tin cans in them looped over a tree branch with a small trigger will work to but I prefer the shotgun hull. It alerts me and has a psychological effect on the intruder.
> 
> Electronic ones work just as well too. while you're at the dump, look for lights that have the motion sensors on them and just take the motion sensors, job dumpsters on commercial remodels are good spots to look (or you can just buy them). The can be easily wired up to alert you with a piezo buzzer or a light without the intruder knowing he's been detected. Then you can pull a joe Biden on him and fire both barrels of your side by side at him and scare him away. Lol. Because joes wife has probably had to do that quite a bit and its a very good technique. Not!!
> 
> I made one for alerting me to cars coming up my driveway.


You can use monofilament line rigged to dump a small can of water on you when you are sleeping in a hide.


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## Caribou

I'd be rather cautious with my use of alarms. An alarm that alerts you may also alert the bad guy. I see two problems as far as game goes, false alarms and scaring off a food source. That having been said, here is an article on alarms.

http://survivethecomingcollapse.com/2658/clothespin-trash-improvised-alarm/

The first thing I would do is to find the corners of the property so I knew what I was dealing with. Walking the property will give you an idea as to where you want to put your camp. Near water is a bonus. Your sanitary facility needs to be at least 100' away from your water source.

Your neighbors will know you are there. They might be a problem but they could also be a resource. Totally avoiding them makes you the outsider and therefore a threat. Find out from your family if they know any of these people. If you have ties to any of these people it could go a long way towards your own survival. We had a local clan of thieves that lived down the street from us. Dad pulled the fat out of the fire for the head of the clan once. He placed our property off limits. Having an ally is important. Having your neighbors like you is advantageous to your security.

Having friends around you is one way to improve your security. What would our northern border look like if it was not Canada but China or Iran instead?

Have a non prepper reason for being up there. Hunting, scouting out the area for hunting season, or just liking to camp are simple reasons. This would also explain the outhouse.

Create a parking spot where your vehicle is not visible from the road. This is for the people that don't live there and are scouting out the area.


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## camo2460

There are lots of ways to camouflage and defend your camp/hide, many were mentioned above and all good ideas. I, however prefer the silent, natural and static methods, for example spikes driven through a board or boards and then covered with leaves, log and rock falls, bow traps, punjie (sp ?) spikes etc. Loud noise near the perimeter of your camp, while alerting you, also works against you. I would put my noise makers farther away. A shotgun blast for example, can be heard a long way off, thus giving you time to react. Any noise closer in should be small and very close to you. One other thing that was not mentioned is not to wear a trail to your camp, come and go by different routes, and while the top of a mountain may seem to be the ideal location, don't discount the less desirable places, sort of like hiding in plain sight. If shtf, and you have to fight, silent strikes are the way to go, an all out gun fight is going to bring the hoards down upon you. Joe BillyBob disappears, but no one knows what happened.


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## SmokeyNJ

Fishing line with fish hooks tied hanging loosely, hang them in in brush at varying levels, tied to cans with pebbles. I have seen this is what illegal pot growers do. Just have you own egress and ingress routes clear to YOU and your team. Try to set alarm lines that don't lead directly to your camp, set so if they are seen they lead to a superior point of contact of your choosing that you can best defend or engage from. Set so they may even lead to 'dummy' abandoned camp diversion or a camp that already looked raided.

Along with the many other ideas mentioned by previous posts that include natural obstacles like briars and such.


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## cheburgie

The first few days in camp will be a little scary. As you settle in you become In tune with the natural ebb and flow of noise. Animals will clue you in if someone else is out there. Unless it's seal team six they will make noise. A fake camp with early warning perimeter traps I think is best. Close enough to hear but far enough away to take up stealth position/ battle station. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Hector827

You could maybe use those little white poppers kids play with around firework times. Just buy a crap load of them and spread a bunch under leaves and other things all around your camp and maybe the weight of someone stepping on them would make them pop, just leave trails you would know so you're not setting them off all the time lol Another thing I think could help is the TV show "Preppers" thats all about prepping. Maybe there's some info on there that could help you. I want to watch all the seasons for valuable information


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## zimmy

These wireless motion alarms can be modified and used for property security, modifications are limited to your imagination.http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html


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## cqp33

gaspump86 said:


> I plan to dig at least 2 fox holes close to my camp. This way I figure if there is a threat and I see or hear it coming, I can have the element of surprise.


In Alabama those fox holes could become snake nests, be careful with what might be in a hole with you if you jump into one quickly!:nuts:


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## Kodeman

If cost is a factor I would use the old stand-by bent sapling snare trap but instead of a snare, connect a trip wire of fishing line with tin cans.


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## TheLazyL

zimmy said:


> These wireless motion alarms can be modified and used for property security, modifications are limited to your imagination.http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html


Batteries...too many preps require batteries...where are the batteries coming from a year or two after SHTF?


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## zimmy

*motion nsensors*

I modified my sensors to run on small rechargeable batteries with a solar module. They also can be modified to run on plug in wall power supplies. they can be modified to run on generator power, inverter power, water power, wind power, nuclear power. They can be modified with a larger antenna for distance, they can be set up with a counter to tell if they have been set off while away. You could put a walkie talkie next to them with the mike keyed and put the receiver on your belt while in the back 40 acres. You are limited to your imagination.


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## Kodeman

Hector827 said:


> You could maybe use those little white poppers kids play with around firework times. Just buy a crap load of them and spread a bunch under leaves and other things all around your camp and maybe the weight of someone stepping on them would make them pop, just leave trails you would know so you're not setting them off all the time lol Another thing I think could help is the TV show "Preppers" thats all about prepping. Maybe there's some info on there that could help you. I want to watch all the seasons for valuable information


If you're joking about the show "Preppers" good one, if not, please watch it mostly for entertainment purposes.


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## jamesjohnson

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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