# Operational Security & Recruitment



## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

I have read a lot of posts on trust on this forum and it seems to boil down to no one but family & close friends.

While I concur with the sentiment, reality is beyond my immediate family, the rest of the family and most close friends are distant.

That said I hope to stimulate a discussion on maintaining a level of operational security with reguard to recruitment.


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

How? I'm open for ideas. It's lonely being the only serious prepper among friends and family. 

One suggestion I have is nobody goes alone to meet someone new, just in case. Not a whole group, that would be intimidating for a first meeting, but a buddy system of twos or threes.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

You could meet in a public place like a small park or parking lot. Maybe a coffee shop. Anyways somewher neutral and open.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

I think the best way to go about finding people is to join several boards like this with like minded people. Then lurk or post but over time find (and talk to) people on the boards you like. Read their posts, get to know their personalities, what they post, how they handle situations, what their thought process is etc.. 

You can do all of this without ever letting anyone (including the person you are looking at) know what you are really doing (searching for a MAG buddy) 

Then once you are able to find people like this you like or feel are a good match, then strike up a closer friendship with them through Emails or PMs and take it from there. 

Just always use caution and never rush into anything


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## greene (Mar 23, 2012)

Hey I didn't know this was a dating site. :-}


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## Ncognito (Oct 27, 2011)

Autumnvicky said:


> One suggestion I have is nobody goes alone to meet someone new, just in case.


Always meet in public. Always make sure someone knows where your going to be and have a specified time to call that person. Just in case.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

greene said:


> Hey I didn't know this was a dating site. :-}


Hey greene, if this is a dating site, I'm outta here....


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I'll make a leap of faith...

Anyone in this area who wants to talk "Meet Up", PM me!


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

greene said:


> Hey I didn't know this was a dating site. :-}


There is a section for single preppers.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

this is common sense & probably doesn't need mentioned

never:

use your real name

use your own vehicle

meet closer than 20 miles from where you live &/or your BOL or use a place 'where everyone knows your name' as a meet

use an e-mail address that can be traced to you or can't be discarded

always:

put your phone on mute and in an interior pocket, and enable the GPS until the meet is over

carry a spare decoy cell phone that can be visibly 'turned off'

preview the meet-up site in as much advance as possible & make notes of regulars and features

have a buddy system and means of communicating basic ideas from a distance (sign language, attire adjustment, or an open-link phone)

inform others where you are and have contact times

NOT such a big fan of contacting strangers merely for the express purpose of 'prepping'... IMHO stronger ties are needed to be able to depend on others


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## fedorthedog (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi there Im a cop. You dont have op spec. Why, the kid at the store saw that you buy 50 pound sacks of stuff each week and commented on it. Your neighbor saw you unload, your kid told someone, you told someone, the garbage man saw the empty sacks. Get real people you dont know how to investigate anything and you dont know how to avoid being investigated. Prepare to deal with the fact that others know what you do. Unless you buy beans a pound at a time at fifty stores and bring them home in your coat, hiding the bag that you Mylar bags came in, and bringing in your buckets in the dead of night someone knows.

Reality is! adapt to that fact and survive.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

fedorthedog said:


> Hi there Im a cop. You dont have op spec. Why, the kid at the store saw that you buy 50 pound sacks of stuff each week and commented on it. Your neighbor saw you unload, your kid told someone, you told someone, the garbage man saw the empty sacks. Get real people you dont know how to investigate anything and you dont know how to avoid being investigated. Prepare to deal with the fact that others know what you do. Unless you buy beans a pound at a time at fifty stores and bring them home in your coat, hiding the bag that you Mylar bags came in, and bringing in your buckets in the dead of night someone knows.
> 
> Reality is! adapt to that fact and survive.


Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out there little fella!

Before I had even became a prepper, or a police officer, I was pretty [email protected] oblivious to everyone and everything going on around me. Especially with the way technology has attached itself to people's brain stems, most people truly won't notice or even take the time to _care_ that you carry a lot of food into your house. Why? Because they are stuck in their own little worlds called their ipods, nooks or smartphones. That's the internet generation for you, and trust me, I'm young enough to be part of that crowd.

They are also the people who are victimized in a crime because of their lack of awareness. I'm sure in the event of SHTF, the first thing people are going to steal is weapons, jewelry, technology, and money. They will turn around later and repeat their actions, and instead attempt to steal food, water and property. Am I wrong? I could be, but from past events, materialistic things are more important to a lot of folks, until they realize that no one is going to save/help them. By that time, you could have hit the road, or have hidden your preps better. Who knows? :dunno: I'd say the panic mode would take at least a week or two tops for utter civil unrest.

A lot of preppers are smarter than you are making them out to be when it comes to planning their shopping trips and op sec. Not a single person I know anymore (non-preppers and preppers alike) hasn't gone to Costco, or even a Sam's Club. A lot of people buy in bulk; be it to save money, feed a larger family, or simply to stock up on the essentials. So what if people know that I have a bit more? I like to cook and bake goodies. 



fedorthedog said:


> Get real people you dont know how to investigate anything and you dont know how to avoid being investigated.


LMAO. What's with the grating condescending attitude? Seriously, you sound like a freaking mall ninja. It's a bit more obvious that this thread is going along the lines of meet and greets, and personal safety in regards to meeting other people, and how to express/discuss your ideas with your fellow preppers, and surrounding community without completely destroying your OP SEC.

I would assume a fellow officer would notice that.
*
OP- I apologize for hijacking the thread.*

Personally, I'm all for making new friends. I'm pretty world weary though, so there are a select few that I would give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to "meeting", and as always it would be in a public area. I'd definitely do coffee. Just slap an IV of it into my vein and we'll talk for hours! (Literally, I like to talk.) Lol.

Everything that Blob said is probably the best information given pertaining to the safety part of meeting with someone. And yes, I believe in stronger ties too, Blob! Kind of like that saying, blood is thicker than water. (Family relevant yes, but there are people I trust with my life and they aren't family.) You better be able to trust that person outside of prepping.


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Fedorthedog: you have no idea how many current and former cops are on this forum do you? You may be very surprised. We are here to help AND learn.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

fedorthedog said:


> Hi there Im a cop. You dont have op spec.


By the way Mr. LEO, what in the world is "op spec"?

I will go and finish loading my dehydrator with spinach and check back later.


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

Let's get back on topic. Okay, what we have so far:

Use a buddy system.
Meet in open public well-lit places.
Inform others of where you are and have contact times.
Never give important information out, like your name, where you live or BOL location. Best leave your car somewhere else.
Put your cell phone on mute.
Nuetral territory, not near where you live or where the other person lives. 

Pixie, as a cop and (I'm assuming) a prepper, do you have any suggestions to add in?


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

What REALLY helps with connecting with forum members is having LOCATIONS visible! Just the state can help. Many times when I see AR or variations thereof I will send a PM to see if they are a neighbor so to speak and see how it goes from there. I really hate it when folks post " it was really hot/cold/windy/stormy here today" and I have no idea where "here" is. Useless information without location. Whoops! need to take my own advice!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Davarm said:


> I'll make a leap of faith...
> 
> Anyone in this area who wants to talk "Meet Up", PM me!


Yep me too. If you are within say a hundred miles of Bryan/College Station shoot me a pm.


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Hm. Good idea y'all. Like that idea.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Most groups of people have "the prepared"in them, they are the people who can find the resourses to solve problems and always seem to have the thing that someone is missing. Watch for these people and carefully start to bring up problem that could require being prepared with them. Stuff is nice to have but true skill is the real lifesaver in most situations. As for starting a MAG that takes real covert detective work. getting new people that you can trust could be a big problem and if your friends are that niave you may need new friends.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

No success w/o incurring some risk and meeting strangers.
My best feindships have come form meeting strangers from the internet in person.

The gov't will NOT come after you just for preparing!
even the most ambitious agency hack who wants "business" by catching "bad guiys" will not make you into a "terrorist" unless you plot actual crimes of some kind or another.

Admittedly there is some entrapment going on like w/ the hutaree ( who IMO were a bit nuts) were the udnercover guy was the motor of the "criminal" activity.

but if you just use common sense you have nothing to fear.

Folks who dont trust thier own common sense, yes then dont meet anyone from here or elsewhere.

there seems ot be an exagretaed fear of meeting folks "form the internet" whats the difference form starting to hang out with a guy you met in a local bar?

there is safety in numbers no matter how be prepped, you will not be successful as a loner or almost loner.
is there a risk in meeting folks? yes.
but IMO its not as big a risk as not building a circle of friends......


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

Has anyone thought of using Facebook or other such social sites? Easy way to chat, see eachother's faces without going anywhere until you feel you know this person enough to attempt a meet n' greet. Or maybe make a chatroom for here.


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

I personally do not and never will do the" social network" stuff. No way are those site secure and they too easily give up information to the .gov about their membership.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Autumnvicky said:


> Has anyone thought of using Facebook or other such social sites? Easy way to chat, see eachother's faces without going anywhere until you feel you know this person enough to attempt a meet n' greet. Or maybe make a chatroom for here.


I really dont want to be a "wet blanket" on that idea but it would kinda like putting an ad in the classifieds of a world wide news paper. I understand that you would have a bigger "pool" to draw from with a site like Facebook but that in itself is the problem, no idea what kind of "people" you would be attracting.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

What you can do is find folks on a site like this one. Add them to your FB friends and create a "group" for them. When you want to post something about prepping you only send it to that group. At least in theory that is how it could work. Personally, I do not discuss prepping at all on FB. I keep in touch with family on there and share recipes, nothing that should get me on anyones radar. Well, except for my political beliefs that have surely put me on "the list".


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

Just replaced my Facebook pictures with one photo of my cat's face. XD Okay, if not Facebook then maybe joining several survival forums may help expand the options of potential future friends?


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

people actually use their REAL names/locations on FB?!!?!?  :lolsmash:


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> people actually use their REAL names/locations on FB?!!?!?  :lolsmash:


From a security stand point, that does sound kinda off doesn't it? That seems to be the accepted norm in today's world. I have never and never will go on FB, that is a data miners bonanza and I dont really care to spread my name and that much info about myself around the world.

I dont criticize those who do frequent and join the site, but it's not for me. It took me almost a year to decide to give my email address and join this site.


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

I use Facebook to keep in touch with distant family, using a different name and cat photo instead of my face does sound like a good idea though.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

BlueZ said:


> No success w/o incurring some risk and meeting strangers.
> My best feindships have come form meeting strangers from the internet in person.
> 
> The gov't will NOT come after you just for preparing!
> ...


Yeah that right you can trust government agents to watch after your rights for real the alpha-bet agencies are just some of the nicest people out there 

You really fell for the gov hype when you were bull$hitting them with your "research"


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Davarm said:


> I'll make a leap of faith...
> 
> Anyone in this area who wants to talk "Meet Up", PM me!


What are you wearing? :nuts:


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

I think in terms of op sec you really need to get to know someone before you let them see what's behind the curtain. Having said that, if you think someone (not from boards like this) a good conversation starter might be something like 'what do you think of that show doomsday preppers'... The purpose being, you need to know first if they are even interested before you can start to incorporate them into your lifestyle.

Better still might be just to talk to people you meet doing things tangential to prepping. Things like shooting, maybe backpacking, buying bulk items, canning supplies, ect.

Having met a potential team mate, be careful about the exchange of information. Never anything too specific in the beginning. And if they are trying to get you to do something illegal, walk away.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

RevWC said:


> What are you wearing? :nuts:


Well its skimpy, not much of it and some of its is see through!:2thumb:

Get your mind out of the gutter Rev, I've been in the garden and I'm in shorts, a tanktop with holes in it.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

So this thread prompted me to look, and sure enough, there's several survivalist/groups at least trying to be started all over northern California.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Davarm said:


> Well its skimpy, not much of it and some of its is see through!:2thumb:
> 
> Get your mind out of the gutter Rev, I've been in the garden and I'm in shorts, a tanktop with holes in it.


Good one!! Thanks for Clarifying!


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

I think its one thing to form a social group to know who else is a prepper and to share different general information (such as whats found on the broads here) but does anyone else ever consider that having these social connections outside in the real world will encourage or invite others to join the group that are not prepared (or not "as prepared") just to use the groups as a mean to further their own lack of prepping? I don't know I am just asking. 

Also if we all strive to really be self sufficient and look after our own family what other than "Moral Support" do these groups or meetings offer? I mean its one thing for the Amish to help each other raise a barn, but I don't see many barns being raised these days. 

Again I am just asking what others think.


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

'Zombies' (unprepared people) will flock to preppers for their resources and brains, they'll be people to defend against when SHTF. A group of preppers joining together at one BOL would survive better than one prepper and his family who are dependant on his prepping for them. A group of preppers could make one heck of a colony. Also ideas from one prepper could help another in certain survival situations.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Autumnvicky said:


> 'Zombies' (unprepared people) will flock to preppers for their resources and brains, they'll be people to defend against when SHTF. A group of preppers joining together at one BOL would survive better than one prepper and his family who are dependant on his prepping for them. A group of preppers could make one heck of a colony. Also ideas from one prepper could help another in certain survival situations.


I agree that one prepper and his family alone are a target unless they have planed proper defense, however your mention of a colony of preppers is counter to what I have seen on these boards over the years I have participated. Most are independent type-A personalities

I do understand making local alliances and getting to know people who might help cover your six or be there to look over your family if you have to take off somewhere on an unexpected trip but other than that I'm not sure


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Recently had two people talk to me about that show "Doomsday Preppers". Both times I stated, "They totally blew their OPSEC didn't they?". One of those people are family and knew exactly what I meant. Another was a childhood friend and I explained to her the idea of OPSEC. She's pretty like minded. Into the self sufficiency movement of growing food and canning. The family member is more of a security minded prepper.
You never know who's worried about SHTF. It may surprise you. Knowing how to talk about prepping without actually referring to it as such and revealing how much or that you even do prep.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

One consideration that I would bring up: don't meet anyone you don't know at a bar or any place that serves alcohol. "Loose lips sink ships" The last thing that you want to do if you are trying to be careful about revealing too much about yourself is partake in something that will relax your defenses.

Also, Facebook is not anyone's friend. Look in to who owns it.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Turtle said:


> Facebook is not anyone's friend. Look in to who owns it.


they definitely are the 'thought police' in many ways, or at least the 'no free speech here' police... which, oddly enough I do NOT have a problem with, it is a private enterprise & they can act as [email protected](<ED up as they want, just don't expect me to abide by it.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

BlueZ said:


> there seems ot be an exagretaed fear of meeting folks "form the internet" whats the difference form starting to hang out with a guy you met in a local bar?


If this straw man position is your fall-back argument, then you're not practicing OPSEC anyway, so I could understand a "what's the point?" attitude, but I would say that most of us on here are NOT 'drinking & preaching' at the local watering hole...


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> If this straw man position is your fall-back argument, then you're not practicing OPSEC anyway, so I could understand a "what's the point?" attitude, but I would say that most of us on here are NOT 'drinking & preaching' at the local watering hole...


I can honestly say that I have not been to a bar since the late 80's. I'm not one of the Teetotaler, I just dont find them very compatible with my lifestyle.

Sooo...I guess meeting someone there would kinda be out of the question for me.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

So what happened to LargoMike? This thread quickly grew to five pages and no LargoMike!

Meeting like-minded people isn't that hard. Meeting like-minded people who are actually busy doing something preparing themselves is a lot harder.

I visit this site occasionally - http://www.americanpreppersnetwork.net/

You can easily find any activity going on in your particular state by going to a state forum. I posted that I was interested in talking to preppers in my region of the state. I still receive replys, and there is now a small group of us in my region that communicate almost daily. Some have come and gone, but we have a core group, and have had two meet-ups so far. Everyone is very nice and its obvious that we enjoy each other's company.

Using email, we exchange info., provide tips, plan... that sort of thing.

I feel more secure with this group than I would with neighbors, quite frankly.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

the basics are know where you are. know the people around you, if only by sight. know other ways to get to and from the meet. keep you quick dial to 911. sit where you can leave easily but still have your back to a wall. be there early, scout out before you go in. let some one you know where you are, maybe have there in a different table where they can still see you. but most of all BE CAREFUL. after all everyone, except the government is out to get you. :surrender:


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

stayingthegame said:


> after all everyone, except the government, is out to get you. :surrender:


:lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash:

I very much needed that laugh, thanx


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## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

Jezcruzen said:


> So what happened to LargoMike? This thread quickly grew to five pages and no LargoMike!
> 
> Meeting like-minded people isn't that hard. Meeting like-minded people who are actually busy doing something preparing themselves is a lot harder.
> 
> ...


LOL That's what I do, lob a grenade into the common area and watch what happened.

Seriously, We have been busy helping a wayward soul. All is now adjusted & stabilized now. Let me catchup real quick.


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## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

Von Helman said:


> I think its one thing to form a social group to know who else is a prepper and to share different general information (such as whats found on the broads here) but does anyone else ever consider that having these social connections outside in the real world will encourage or invite others to join the group that are not prepared (or not "as prepared") just to use the groups as a mean to further their own lack of prepping? I don't know I am just asking.
> 
> Also if we all strive to really be self sufficient and look after our own family what other than "Moral Support" do these groups or meetings offer? I mean its one thing for the Amish to help each other raise a barn, but I don't see many barns being raised these days.
> 
> Again I am just asking what others think.


For me and mine, it's a matter of level. Personal training and weapons were the first step attained on our path for sheltering In Place (SIP in C.E.R.T. termanology. We reside in a predominatly low-income community so there will be little to no prepping locally. If things are going to be caotic for more than 30 days, I must bug out to a safer local.

I want to create a coop or group with the ability to sucure a safe "farm" working together. Security is a concern but


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## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

Davarm said:


> I really dont want to be a "wet blanket" on that idea but it would kinda like putting an ad in the classifieds of a world wide news paper. I understand that you would have a bigger "pool" to draw from with a site like Facebook but that in itself is the problem, no idea what kind of "people" you would be attracting.


There is a test that you can give that will identify phobias and the *paths'. LOL


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## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

autumnvicky said:


> 'zombies' (unprepared people) will flock to preppers for their resources and brains, they'll be people to defend against when shtf. A group of preppers joining together at one bol would survive better than one prepper and his family who are dependant on his prepping for them. A group of preppers could make one heck of a colony. Also ideas from one prepper could help another in certain survival situations.


eureka!!!!!


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## LargoMike (Apr 27, 2012)

LargoMike said:


> There is a test that you can give that will identify phobias and the *paths'. LOL


I heard that test was called The Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Invetory ~ 2 (MMPI-2).


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

If you go to the regional section, you can hook up with people in your area. The Texas people are having a meet up Oct 5-7 if anyone wants to join us.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

Hello Folks! While I keep up with the majority of the posts I rarely post myself. I prefer collecting intel than providing it. This topic is near and dear to me so I will post my thoughts. I welcome like minded folks and would like to have an established cadre of preppers to share ideas, thoughts and even a post-event redoubt. We are all intelligent enough to know that to perform the work that will be needed to survive, while keeping security, that it will take 20-30 people. This may sound high but consider, some will be ill, some could be wounded, some could be limited due to age or injury, some will work the fields, some will cook, some will clean, some will be on security, some could be scouting, ets. You get the point. While I had thought of staying put, my warrior skills will be not match for large numbers of intruders; be they armed or not. To have a place that I can bug out to that will have a cadre of like minded and trained personnel will save my life and my family's lives. To do that I have to take the chance of meeting like minded people, building trust and then be able to allow that trust to unite us in the face of a common enemy or disaster.

I am open to meeting others, just drop me a msg.

Semper Fi


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

semperscott said:


> Hello Folks! While I keep up with the majority of the posts I rarely post myself. I prefer collecting intel than providing it. This topic is near and dear to me so I will post my thoughts. I welcome like minded folks and would like to have an established cadre of preppers to share ideas, thoughts and even a post-event redoubt. We are all intelligent enough to know that to perform the work that will be needed to survive, while keeping security, that it will take 20-30 people. This may sound high but consider, some will be ill, some could be wounded, some could be limited due to age or injury, some will work the fields, some will cook, some will clean, some will be on security, some could be scouting, ets. You get the point. While I had thought of staying put, my warrior skills will be not match for large numbers of intruders; be they armed or not. To have a place that I can bug out to that will have a cadre of like minded and trained personnel will save my life and my family's lives. To do that I have to take the chance of meeting like minded people, building trust and then be able to allow that trust to unite us in the face of a common enemy or disaster.
> 
> I am open to meeting others, just drop me a msg.
> 
> Semper Fi


 I agree.Talk to peopel in your community.No amount of ammo or guns can fight off an army of desperate people.Only reason I'd have a BOB or vehicle is the nuke plants around us.One is weapons grade from what I hear.A good horse or IMO donkey would be a good thing to have.They can get through the woods.I know because I have been peeled off them a few times when I was kid.A donk will run between two trees just enough room for them to get through.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Autumnvicky said:


> Has anyone thought of using Facebook or other such social sites? Easy way to chat, see each other's faces without going anywhere until you feel you know this person enough to attempt a meet n' greet. Or maybe make a chatroom for here.


I highly recommend you don't do this! You know I love you guys, but I really don't know you and you really don't know me. From a person's profile, pic, and writings you may be able to glean something about their personality, but you really don't know anyone in the pseudo-reality of the internet.

I really do believe seeing is believing, stick with the people you know. If you are looking for team members, look to your extended family and friends, people you know from church, people you have known for a while, who you have observed (perhaps in stressful situations) etc.

You know the people who can be depended on in a pinch, people who will be loyal to you, and who are undependable. Why risk letting down your opsec to someone who turns out to be a flake, a nut job, or a person of questionable morals?

As I have said before, don't come out and say: "I'm a doomsday prepper, wanna join my commune and train with my militia..." 
 That would scare me, never mind a neophyte. 

Instead, meet people where they are, they don't have to be "preppers," to be a contributing part of your emergency preparedness team they don't NEED TO KNOW the totality of your concerns. Isn't NEED TO KNOW the core of OPSEC?

Think about the military or a sports team, its the commanders, generals, captains and coaches that need to think BIG picture, GI Joe just needs to know how to do his job, whether that's infantry, logistics, demolitions, or KP. Only the elite, SpecFor, are trained to do it all, and the strategists need to think about how all the pieces fit together...

So your friend gardens, why not show some interest, get involved, encourage her to plant a garden, give her some non-alarmist books about hybrid seeds and the benefits of heirloom seeds, etc.

Know some good young men? It doesn't take much to get them interested fishing, hunting, hiking, camping, marksmenship, etc.

Have a shooting buddy who is also am EMT or fire fighter, why not encourage them to hone their paramedic skills? or find a combat medicine class, as a precaution for when your out hunting or shooting?

How about a friend who is handy around the house or with cars? Why not encourage them to learn about gassifiers, solar, and wind technology, etc.

By doing this you will be gaining a basic understanding of these skill areas, and developing a resource.

If the SHTF there will be plenty of time to teach people to do X, Y, or Z, the only really essential skill is being able to defend yourself in the chaos of collapse. So focus on exposing your prospective members on shooting and self-defense. While spending time with your friends doing what they like, look for opportunities to encourage them gently to put some food back, if only a weeks worth in case of a bad storm. Look for stories of crime in the paper to encourage them to get some guns. Encourage them to do some prepping even if they don't know what they are doing. Let them in on some generic emergency plans, meet here if such and such an emergency occurs. Etc. etc.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

After years of living here we learned most of those living up on this hill have a very similar mind set. Enough that we came up with a comprehensive mutual security strategy to join together to establish a perimeter about two miles from my property by blocking the road at a choke point that can not be circumvented. Everyone is pretty neighborly and we help each other out as needed which I suspect will continue once SHTF. On the other hand we are not best buds, most are pretty self reliant and private. Closed mouthed about their preps and lives generally.

The problem I see with relationships on these forums is logistics. Those that I find may be a great ally live far off and have resources that they are not likely to abandon nor am I willing to abandon my homestead to start over else where. Same applies with some bros I have now. As an example on is an Ivy League School grad emergency room surgeon. Ex spec ops combat medic who is my mentor in all things medical. Would love to have him on my team but he has his own set up way to far off for that to happen.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

I have asked this before, but here we go again. In an after TSHTF event, if I show up on your door steps what would you do?

This question is asked with the notion that I would be an assett to you because of my skills/preps.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

It depends upon how you showed up. If you were armed, you wouldn't probably walk back out. If unarmed, we might talk (you being outside, me being inside), from there it depends upon what you have to offer the group. You would definitely have to earn our trust. You wouldn't be accepted inside for quite a while.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> I have asked this before, but here we go again. In an after TSHTF event, if I show up on your door steps what would you do?
> 
> This question is asked with the notion that I would be an assett to you because of my skills/preps.


Highly unlikely you'd make it within two miles of my door steps for reasons I described in my rather lengthy post here.

But let me answer your question with one of my own.
What preps do you have to offer? Do you offer enough crops to feed yourself and others for a year? Enough cured and preserved fish, crab, shrimp, oysters, fowl and game to feed yourself and others for a year. A years worth of fuel or power? Do you have one or two thousand gallons of propane on hand? How many goats, chickens, turkeys or other livestock are you offering? Do you have enough feed to sustain them? How many thousands of rounds of ammo do you have? How many pounds of power? How many bullets and premiers? How many firearms? How many times can you rebuild them with the spare parts you have on hand? What about other equipment and tools, what are you bringing? How long can you maintain and repair them from parts you have on hand?

In addition to perfect health a strong back, and ability to work from dusk til dawn. Beyond being knowledgeable and skilled at local plant identification, harvesting, uses, storage and preparation, hunting, fishing, carpentry, mill work, construction, small engine repair, cooking, sewing, knitting, first aid (EMT certified), basic ER skills, welding, basic metal fabrication, automotive repair, electrical, plumbing, animal husbandry, gardening, sailing, navigation, canning, trapping, tanning, fire arms & tactical experience, martial arts what skills do you bring to the table?

Exactly what preps and skills do you offer that would inspire me or our community to invite you to avail yourself to the limited resources our lives depend on? Why would we let you have access to limited resources our loved ones depend upon to live? Resources that we have nurtured for a decade or more. What do you offer that would warrant your reaping the rewards we worked over a three decades to obtain? After over thirty years worth of investment of time and money, sweat and sacrifice so the I can provide my family with a safe secure self sustaining home, what do you offer that we would now hand the benefits of our efforts over to you? Why would we put everything we spent thirty years working for at risk, so that you can reap the rewards of our efforts?

I am asking because I could be wrong but our intent has always been to invite those who arrive at our perimeter to move on back the way they came and to stay off of our turf, territory and property. If anyone opts to not leave us in peace and accept out invitation, we have a plan to assure that they do not trespass on what we have identified as out territory and deplete our resources. I am curious what skills and preps would cause us to change our mind


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

LongRider said:


> I am curious what skills and preps would cause us to change our mind


Agree 100%, but I can think a few right now:
Doctor, Dentist, ER/trauma Nurse, Vet.
Someone with skill sets not heard in the group - blacksmith, machinist, etc.

That is why I said, I would at least gain some information without inviting them inside. After a period of time on the outside, while assisting and proving themselves there would be a trust built. But lack of motivation or assisting in day to day chores and bye bye.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

invision said:


> Agree 100%, but I can think a few right now:
> Doctor, Dentist, ER/trauma Nurse, Vet.
> Someone with skill sets not heard in the group - blacksmith, machinist, etc.
> 
> That is why I said, I would at least gain some information without inviting them inside. After a period of time on the outside, while assisting and proving themselves there would be a trust built. But lack of motivation or assisting in day to day chores and bye bye.


Excellent point. I would hate to be entirely closed off from the possibility of recruiting fresh blood; if for no other reason than the able body who seeks first to join you may wind up opposing you with another group, and one would hate to lose a potential wealth of knowledge and abilities to a rival.

Perhaps in this situation, if you had a large enough compound, it would be wise to interview prospects in a "clean room" that doesn't reveal anything about your abilities or level of preparations. A side room built on to a guard house, like a police interview room? No decorations, only a table and chair(s) for furniture. If a prospect passes that screening, allow them to stay in a secured bunkhouse, separate from your main lodging, until they seem trustworthy.

Just trying to apply some of what I use in force protection to the situation.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Longrider
Thanks for the response. If I had no skill sets that you were in need of, then it wouldn't make sense for you to let me join the group. I'm not saying that I would be of any benefit to your group,(Also i wouldn't expect for you to sacrifice any of your preps to take care of me.) however if I didnt think I would be of a benefit, I would never aproach a compound. Also I'm not sure there is a safe way to encounter people in a post SHTF situation. I believe it would be a risk, and a gamble on OPSEC everytime. I do believe this is something that will happen, some people will be good, and some people bad. I will be one of the good guys. If you want to turn me away then I will go. But I will be looking for a group, if I havent done so by then.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> Longrider
> Thanks for the response. If I had no skill sets that you were in need of, then it wouldn't make sense for you to let me join the group. I'm not saying that I would be of any benefit to your group,(Also i wouldn't expect for you to sacrifice any of your preps to take care of me.) however if I didnt think I would be of a benefit, I would never aproach a compound. Also I'm not sure there is a safe way to encounter people in a post SHTF situation. I believe it would be a risk, and a gamble on OPSEC everytime. I do believe this is something that will happen, some people will be good, and some people bad. I will be one of the good guys. If you want to turn me away then I will go. But I will be looking for a group, if I havent done so by then.


Glad you took my response as it was intended. I could only answer your question based upon my situation. The response you get will depend upon whom you encounter.

We don't have a compound more of a community of home owners that live up on this hill, with a minimum of 20 acres per lot there are not a lot of us. I provided the link to my other post about our defenses / security plan to give you an idea of what you would encounter here. I provided you with some of my skill set and as most the folks up here are pretty self reliant they too have a broad range of skills and experiences. I suspect that is true for most self reliant folks.

The point being that in all likely hood those who have the self sustaining self reliant homesteads that you would want to affiliate yourself with already have the skill sets you are bringing to the table or have no need of them. They after all are or have been self sustaining self reliant long before you arrived.

Of course the likely hood that the preps you can carry or even load up in your truck will have any significant impact on what they already have and are using is highly unlikely. You'd be very much like a street person offering to share what they have with you if you let them have dinner with you. Do you really think that what they have in their shopping cart or bag will contribute much to what you already have in your larder?

The real crux of what I was trying to get across is. Your very best bet in my honest sincerest opinion is that you and anyone who want to survive no matter what happens in the world around us is to create a self sustaining homestead for yourself.

I know there are many reasons why folks claim they can not do that but the fact is in most cases that simply is not true. The minute you decide that it is what you are going to do, become willing to make what ever sacrifice is necessary and do the leg work. Even if is as simple as going out and looking at land you will begin to develop a way to make it happen for you. Maybe not right away maybe it will take a year or two maybe more but the sooner you get started the sooner you will make it happen. IMO opinion that will give you a far better chance of long term survival than trusting on the good will and needs of others for your services. Hope is not a plan and that really is what you are saying you hope someone will need what you can offer.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> ...In an after TSHTF event, if I show up on your door steps what would you do?
> ...


You would leave. Hopefully under your own power but irregardless you will leave


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

TheLazyL
If that were your wish then most deffinately.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

invision said:


> Agree 100%, but I can think a few right now:
> Doctor, Dentist, ER/trauma Nurse, Vet.
> Someone with skill sets not heard in the group - blacksmith, machinist, etc.


Granted that may be a possibility that someone with skills lacking in the community may arrive at our perimeter. But that brings with it a whole series of question, problems, variables and risks. Starting by allowing them to stay we create a class system that did not exist prior. Everyone here is a homeowner has a vested interest. We have all invested time money blood sweat and tears into our homes. They don't and haven't. Next where do you put them? We are not a commune or compound. We are a community of private homesteads. I personally do not have need of another body to do chores, nor do I get along well with others. So that will require a community meeting, to see who will take them in, provide them with food and shelter. Willing to give up some of their own food and supplies as well as accept responsibility for them, be accountable for the refugees conduct. Which begs the question which skills will we consider, which skills will we reject. Who makes that call? Than the question is security. At the point of introduction they have not seen a single home. They in fact know nothing about our defenses, as only those who require that we deploy them will discover what they are. Other wise all they know is that they heard two voices from concealment ask them to move on. For more info see the link I posted.

Once past the barricades they will of course be able to see folks homes what people have and what their personal security is. Only after they have that information will we learn whether or not this is really someone we want around. Are they a tolerable human being, worth a crap, are they a hard worker, any good at their skill. What if whom ever takes them in decides they are a POS and no longer want them around no one wants them? Or over all they are disliked and unwanted. Execute or exile them? If you exile them you now have someone who knows what your defenses are what your defensive strategy is. Who knows what you have what your standard of living is and a huge resentment. After all they have done for you send them out with nothing into the cold a 100 of miles from anywhere. Even if they are a saint or simply do not have the where with all to organize an attack. What about others at a hobo camp sleeping in abandoned cars against the rain huddle around a fire hearing the tale of a community with hot water plenty of food warm houses. How long before enough starving desperate people hear about our community before they start to band together. Even though we will be able to hold them off we lose. Instead of an isolated unheard of community we are now a target. We may lose members or have members injured use up precious supplies and ammo needlessly. As you see I think the risks are substantial and would most likely opt to execute over exile. Though the truth is I hope to live out the rest of my days without ever seeing the insides of another human being ever again. Which begs the question is taking this skilled stray in worth the risk of being forced into making decisions no one should ever have to make?


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

LongRider
Don't know how i missed your last post thanks. Thats my plan, right now I am getting all my ducks in a row. I plan on investing in land somewhere in north central Arkansas. My only problem is that if TSHTF before i make it. I know I'll be ok however would like to be on BOL permanantly.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> TheLazyL
> If that were your wish then most deffinately.


Not my wish


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

One error, or lack of consideration, that I see in these posts is that each homestead, community, etc. will need extra bodies. If somebody shows up where I and my family are we will not invite them onto the property. First we would search them and their gear and then have a conversation with them as to how did they get here, what do they seek and what do they have to offer. Between the conversation and a review of their gear and weapons, we would then vote to take them in or not. Nobody here can live for an indefinate time on what they have set aside. Any gardens will have to be greatly enlarged, hunting will take a greater need and effort, etc. Bodies will be needed to do the myriad tasks needed. Without taking in bodies and growing any community will wither or be killed off in time. And that is not even taking into account that the SHTF scenario could be a total rebuild of our world and society that new DNA would be needed to prevent inbreeding. 

I am not advising to take everybody who shows up, or to even keep the ones you bring into you group in a probationary position. What I am advising is to be open to not only inviting people who have a needed skill set, but to also consider the people who can assist your and/or your community by their laber of sweat and in time by their addition to your security forces. Give them a job, review what is expected from them in both labor and actions, and give them goal posts to strive for to achieve full member status. You may find yourself very suprised by what you will get and achieve over time.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> LongRider
> Thats my plan, right now I am getting all my ducks in a row. I plan on investing in land somewhere in north central Arkansas.


:congrat: :2thumb: :congrat: *CONGRATULATIONS* :congrat: :2thumb: :congrat:​
I sincerely wish you the best of luck and success in your endeavor as I truely believe that is your very best bet at long term survival, independence and true freedom


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

semperscott said:


> Nobody here can live for an indefinate time on what they have set aside. Any gardens will have to be greatly enlarged, hunting will take a greater need and effort, etc. Bodies will be needed to do the myriad tasks needed. Without taking in bodies and growing any community will wither or be killed off in time.


Damn you mean my wife and I have been doing it all wrong for the last ten years? Thank you for letting us know that. For the last ten years, all we have had was the two of us to produce, prepare and preserve all the food we have needed to sustain us each year. Now you teach me that we needed more bodies to help the two of us survive all these years. But wait if we need more than two people to sustain ourselves how is it that we managed to do so for ten years? 
And
If more than two people are needed to sustain two people how many do we need to sustain the extra bodies that supports us and what supports them since their efforts are going towards sustaining those whose efforts are being used to support us. 
And 
Exactly where do those resources come from? Seems to me the more people you have the greater the burden on the environment, the more people the quicker the available wild life both and animal are depleted.

No I think we will keep our gardens the same size, gather the same amount of mushrooms, berries nuts, herbs and plants. Can and preserve the same amount of fruits, veggies, meat and fish. Prepare the same amount of tinctures salves, remedies, raise the same number of goats, chickens and turkey, hunt and fish the same limits that the two of us can. That has been keeping us happy healthy and well fed for the last decade. You should try it sometime, maybe with some real life experience what you imagine will change


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

No matter how well prepared and armed I cannot see two people surviving entirely on their own without a lot of luck. Suppose one person gets really sick or badly injured: who tends the garden, who hunts, who cooks, who plays doctor who stands watch at night?

Being far from towns and well hidden also means that there are no neighbors to help out, barter with or provide fire support.

I don't think that anyone said that you have been doing things wrong, especially in peaceful times. It is more that your chances of long term survival increase measurably when there are more people in the group after TSHTF.


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## learn2survive-net (Sep 8, 2012)

*On Opsec*



md1911 said:


> You could meet in a public place like a small park or parking lot. Maybe a coffee shop. Anyways somewhere neutral and open.


Just as a side note, when you are meeting with people to discuss "prepping" - remember where you are and that others may be listening... I would suggest keeping first time meetings informal and any discussions kept off of why you're really meeting - take one or two meetings to get a feel for the people that you are meeting with then find somewhere quieter for discussing preparedness - this may seem a little paranoid but you really don't know who else is listening to your conversation - let's look at it from two different view points - maybe those listening in may have ill intent or perhaps those hearing parts of your conversation may well take it out of context, over react and this could lead to prolonged discussions with the local authorities - at their place. Just a little food for thought - be aware of your surroundings and, as much as possible, aware of those around you.


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## learn2survive-net (Sep 8, 2012)

teotwaki said:


> No matter how well prepared and armed I cannot see two people surviving entirely on their own without a lot of luck. Suppose one person gets really sick or badly injured: who tends the garden, who hunts, who cooks, who plays doctor who stands watch at night?
> 
> Being far from towns and well hidden also means that there are no neighbors to help out, barter with or provide fire support.
> 
> I don't think that anyone said that you have been doing things wrong, especially in peaceful times. It is more that your chances of long term survival increase measurably when there are more people in the group after TSHTF.


People are inherently social creatures. Given enough time in a SHTF situation, like minded people will start to band together because they will realize that their potential for survival will depend on it. The problem lies in learning how to trust people - remember that 80% of human communication is body language and a good skill to acquire along with your other survival skills is to learn how to accurately read other peoples body language by watching them... I don't mean being creepy and stalking people... just go sit in a cafe near a busy street, or in a park and watch people as they interact with other people... you'll be surprised how much you can learn in a short space of time.


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## learn2survive-net (Sep 8, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Damn you mean my wife and I have been doing it all wrong for the last ten years? Thank you for letting us know that. For the last ten years, all we have had was the two of us to produce, prepare and preserve all the food we have needed to sustain us each year. Now you teach me that we needed more bodies to help the two of us survive all these years. But wait if we need more than two people to sustain ourselves how is it that we managed to do so for ten years?


I agree with everything that you stated with one observation... when in the last ten years have you had to defend yourself and your wife... and for that matter your property, from bands of hungry people looking for something to eat and prepared to use any means to get it?


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Im not sure if yall read his previous posts but he said he lived in a community of twenty homesteads, that are a minimum of 20? acres a piece. Seems to me they're not going it alone.


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## learn2survive-net (Sep 8, 2012)

Even if all the homesteads worked together... it is doubtful that in the last decade, they've had to defend themselves against a horde of hungry people... my point is that you may well be "surviving" now but what about when an armed gang of 6, or 10, or 20 people come looking to raid you?
There is a massive difference between homesteading and having to protect yourself... here's another one... what if the government turns up and seizes their properties under the defense acquisition laws that were put in place under executive order in the last 18 months? What then?


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

teotwaki said:


> No matter how well prepared and armed I cannot see two people surviving entirely on their own without a lot of luck. Suppose one person gets really sick or badly injured: who tends the garden, who hunts, who cooks, who plays doctor who stands watch at night?
> 
> Being far from towns and well hidden also means that there are no neighbors to help out, barter with or provide fire support.
> 
> I don't think that anyone said that you have been doing things wrong, especially in peaceful times. It is more that your chances of long term survival increase measurably when there are more people in the group after TSHTF.


We live 100 miles from the nearest high density population, 20 miles from the nearest town a bit over two miles up a dirt road. Unless you know where we are you are not likely to find us. But we are by no means alone up on this hill there are others with 20 acre lots. Of course we have been sick in the past ten years. My wife broke her back early on in a motorcycle accident I've broken bones we have had our share of the flue or whatever. Does not mean we went looking for a hand out. We just made do. That's what being self reliant is all about taking care of your own business, not sniveling every time you stub your toe. I take care of me and mine. Adding more people to the mix simply puts a greater strain on the available resources and increases the risk of a shortfall. Clean water, fertile land, wild plants, game, fish and the lands ability to absorb the impact of human beings is limited to a finite number. I do not know what is hard to understand about that. The damage and impact to the land increase exponentially the more people that there are. 
That is why you will not see massive sign saying send us your downtrodden, hungry, homeless refugees outside of small rural communities or wilderness homesteads. With bands playing and welcoming committees. Instead you will more likely be staring down the wrong end of a gun being told *Get The F Out Now Or Die* I know that is what you will be told if you come up our road. In the unlikely event that you get past the little town 20 miles down the road, who I know intend on telling you the same thing.



learn2survive-net said:


> I agree with everything that you stated with one observation... when in the last ten years have you had to defend yourself and your wife... and for that matter your property, from bands of hungry people looking for something to eat and prepared to use any means to get it?


We are isolated out in the sticks. We provide our own security, as the police could never make it out here in time to stop anything. I've made trespasser leave on more than on occasion. So as not to take up a huge amount of space to repeat what I've ready posted see *this link* for an outline of our security/defensive system and plan. Keeping the few hungry desperate maundering hoards that make it out this far at bay will not be a problem. They won't be getting within two miles of my property


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> Im not sure if yall read his previous posts but he said he lived in a community of twenty homesteads, that are a minimum of 20? acres a piece. Seems to me they're not going it alone.


Don't think I've said 20 homesteads, but you did remember correctly that we have a 20 acre minimum lot size on our hill or mountain. I think that where the disconnect for some is that their assumptions are based upon what they imagine or fantasize what it will be like, not on any actual real life experience. What amazes me in those who insist that their assumptions must be right even if they are contradicted by actual real life experience and knowledge


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

One thread was closed but I do not think that Longrider and I should squabble any further. I am deleting my posts or editing comments. Neither of us should be upset with each other.

Thanks to Zanazaz and LincTex for the reality check.


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