# Tents?



## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

Now with my military background, I have pretty mich slept everywhere imaginable with sleeping backs, bizzy cover, poncho, etc. So i couldnreally care not care. But I have a family (wife/7month). And i just think antent overall would be are best solution. All side pretection, blocks sun, closed bottom. 

Would anyone agree or dissagree? Whay do you guys with small children use for your bug out bag?


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

As far as tents go I prefer the tepee tent sold by the Sportsmans guide H.Q. military surplus, you can get a 10x10 tent that will sleep six, is 61/2 ft. at the center and weighs about 14 lbs. for about $100.00. As far as BOB's there are so many options, it kinda depends on how old your children are and how much you want to spend. You could use a diaper bag or a small range bag or pack


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I have some military experience as well and some backpacking experience. I can't imagine surviving very long without a tent or bivy. You ain't gonna get very far carrying a 14 lb tent. Look at some of the backing tents. Something like a Big Anges Fly Creek UL2 or MSR Hubba Hubba come in at around 3 lbs but are pricey. Cheaper and heavier is the Eureka Timberline 2 and Spitfire 2.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

If I was going to carry a tent and didn't mind spending $350 I would consider an ecotat multipurpose tent. Light enough for backpacking, can be set up in a variety of configurations for 4 season comfort, can double as rain gear, can be found in camo,and otherwise seems like a good price of gear. Haven't used one myself but have considered buying one for sometime now. I like versatile gear. Weighs in at between 4-5lbs if I'm not mistaken.


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## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

Yea, i am not concerned about weight, i can ruck for a good 25 miles with about a 30lb ruck. Being light infantry has its perks ha. ButI just figured with a small child, a tent seemed the only way to go.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

I camped in a in the florida keyes for 6 months. My kids were 3,4,and 6 yr.olds. Of course we were in subtropics so no real cold weather.No such thing as air beds then.So a baby won't really be that much trouble.

Make sure you have rubber diaper pants to keep the baby dry. And lots of diaper pins.I tried to find some diaper pins and it was almost impossible,found the clothe diapers at wally world,but no diaper pins. I was buying them for my great grandchild in case tshtf because I know my grandkids are not prepared at all and now they are having babies. You can tie on a diaper,but its really hard to keep it up that way.Keep diaper rash ointment on hand too.


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## Mortblanc (Apr 20, 2013)

I would suggest that you get out of the tent and under a roof ASAP.

In pre-industrialized societies the infant mortality rate is 50%, in nomadic societies it runs much higher but World Health Organization has no exact numbers.

An infant under a roof has a 50/50 chance, an infant in a tent has only 10-20% chance of survival.

Everyone should rethink their concept of "bugging out" and living like a ninja-boy scout with their family.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> You ain't gonna get very far carrying a 14 lb tent.


Maybe You won't, others may do fine. I have often packed a large tent either to share with others or to have extra space in bad weather. For a couple and an infant a smaller tent would certainly work. I would recommend having some extra room though, being forced to choose between leaving stuff outside and being in cramped quarters is no fun

Mortblanc, if that is your opinion I can respect that, but the numbers you posted and the rationale behind them is, imo seriously flawed.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

Mortblanc said:


> I would suggest that you get out of the tent and under a roof ASAP.
> 
> In pre-industrialized societies the infant mortality rate is 50%, in nomadic societies it runs much higher but World Health Organization has no exact numbers.
> 
> ...


Say what now??? While I absolutely agree with your "get under a roof ASAP" statement... where are you getting your percentages from?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

cowboyhermit said:


> Maybe You won't, others may do fine. I have often packed a large tent either to share with others or to have extra space in bad weather. For a couple and an infant a smaller tent would certainly work. I would recommend having some extra room though, being forced to choose between leaving stuff outside and being in cramped quarters is no fun
> 
> Mortblanc, if that is your opinion I can respect that, but the numbers you posted and the rationale behind them is, imo seriously flawed.


I guess my question to you would be how far did you walk last year carrying every thing you need to survive for a few day. I did more than 2,000 miles.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

To swjohnsey.....go play in traffic.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

08siboost said:


> Now with my military background, I have pretty mich slept everywhere imaginable with sleeping backs, bizzy cover, poncho, etc. So i couldnreally care not care. But I have a family (wife/7month). And i just think antent overall would be are best solution. All side pretection, blocks sun, closed bottom.
> 
> Would anyone agree or dissagree? Whay do you guys with small children use for your bug out bag?


Glad you're young and strong. I was to many years ago! However, if you can get a good lightweight tent in the 6 lb. range you can use the extra eight pounds for extra gear and food.

You might also pack a lightweight, nylon tarp. They make great canopies for outside head room and to give you a place to work while cooking, a dry place to stack firewood and gear, relax and stretch out, etc.

As for what to carry ... do some camping trips near home and you'll figure out right away what you need and what you don't. (Don't forget to have medical supplies for your child. It's heartbreaking to have a sick infant and no way to relieve their misery.) I hope you're planning on going to an actual location in your bug-out. Living in a backpack size tent with a small child is not fun for the long term.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

As you can see you will get wildly diffent opinions from the "experts".

One of you will be carrying the baby and his/her supplies. My guesstimate is that will be in the 20 - 30 lb range. This doesn't leave a whole lot of room/weight for everything else.

A tent is just shelter at night when you are moving or when the weather is so bad you can move. When you get to where you are going you can improvise something more comfortable. Something small and light is what you need. The smaller it is the warmer you will be. If I had to choose one on a limited budget it would be the Spitfire II. If you have money to burn look at the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL3. Looks on ebay for bargins on used gear.

Another thing to consider is that babies and small children get hypothermic much easier than adults. They have much more surface area compared to their weight. Add to that the fact that adults can stay warm by moving but the baby will just be carried. I would make a top priority a down sleeping bag for the baby.


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## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

Of course i would try and get under a roof, but in the worst possible condition, that may or may not be available. 

Me and my wife are both young and strong(24) and like to stay fit, so when/if we had to move, she would have our daughter and her bag, and i would be carrying everything else. 

We live out in CO so there are many possible locations we could bug out to, but money is the only problem so we can't just go out and buy some property and build a bunker in an isolated location.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

You might want to scout out some locations in advance and cache supplies nearby. That way you can have extra gear ready when you arrive.

The best thing is going to be practice. Small children introduce a whole new set of challenges. Do some backpacking now while things are good.

Steve


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

08siboost said:


> ..many possible locations we could bug out to, but money is the only problem so we can't just go out and buy some property and build a bunker in an isolated location.


If it isn't safe to stay home then your only option is to BO, even if you don't have a place to BO to.

Wife carries her things and the baby's, you carry everything else sounds like a system that could work.

Suggest your pack is the type that could be drop quickly. You are also the security for the group and you may have to respond fast.

Young couple with a baby could be considered and easy target.


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

This went from a tent selection thread to a where to live thread...

Can we go back to what tents you all recommend thread please


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> I guess my question to you would be how far did you walk last year carrying every thing you need to survive for a few day. I did more than 2,000 miles.


Hiking a trail is fine, it just has few parallels with a "survival" situation or even a remote wilderness one. Walking 2000 miles is great if that kind of thing turns your crank, BUT you are buying all of your food and supplies along the way! When I hike into the wilderness there are many parallels with a shtf situation, you either pack all the food (and other supplies) you need or an actual means of procuring it (not a hypothetical means). For most people traveling without the aid of trail infrastructure travel would be very slow, personally with about a 100 pound pack I can make 100miles or so before needing to resupply but I would have the means to do so properly. The modern hiking paradigm just doesn't work long term without infrastructure, other than for short distances.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Hennessy Hammock is what I considered before realizing with 2 grandmothers my realistic option is to BI.


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## Momturtle (Nov 2, 2009)

*Excellent/light tent*

We have used the GoLite Shangrila 5 tent, with nest for family camping. We have a friend who went on a 3 week wilderness camping trip with 3 kids using it. It stands up to storms, wind, major rain. It is lightweight and spacious (if you have ever been in a little tent with kids in the pouring rain, you would really apreciate this. It is a little pricy but not compared to a lot of much smaller tents and it is a great tent that provides a lot of options in how it is pitched. Right at 6 lbs and huge inside.

With children (and adults) it is important to be aware of not only keeping dry, but protecting from insects. The internal nest of this tent takes care of that as well as providing a bit of insulation in the event it is cold, ventilation if it is hot.

http://www.golite.com/Shangri-La-5-Tent-P46714.aspx

With regard to the survivability of children in tents -=- that is dependent on availability of potable water, hygiene, lack of food, etc. . . . all of the kind of things we are aware of and thinking about here and planning for. Let's talk some more about Tents! I love them and have lived in them (with and without kids) for extended periods of time.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

swjohnsey said:


> As you can see you will get wildly diffent opinions from the "experts".


NOTHING you have posted leads ANYONE to think you are an expert at ANYTHING but being an annoying troll.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Foeym wouym

When I carry a pack on the internet it is usually a thousand pounds.


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## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

Well i dont know if i mentioned it, but you can probably tell i am new to all of this. 

Obviously i want my family to be safe if anything should happen, any i don't want to be cheap when it comes to buying equipment, but it is hard living on a military budget when your wife doesn't work.

So I always see a lot of tents for around 80-150 on amazon, would one of those work out? Or should i just save up and get a more durable one that is supposed to take on all weather?

And for whomever posted about being an easy target and young, i never really thought about that. But if need be with all my background, I wouldnt be afraid to pull the trigger. (Thank you afghanistan) but i realize that also if it was another father trying to provide for there family or what not, i am sure they wouldnt be afraid to either, but might be more hesitant about it? I don't know. 

All i can is hope that the day will never come, but all i can do is be ready for it.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

swjohnsey said:


> Foeym wouym
> 
> When I carry a pack on the internet it is usually a thousand pounds.


I keep mine to 40 lbs and a scout rifle.much easier to clean up if any CRAP spills out.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

You are looking for a backpacking tent. You can get them relatively cheap or very expensive. Look for something that weighs 6 pounds or less that is listed as three season.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Magus said:


> I keep mine to 40 lbs and a scout rifle.much easier to clean up if any CRAP spills out.


Forty pounds is a reasonable load. Folks who say they carried a 100 lb pack don't have a scale.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

swjohnsey, I have tried to not be disrespectful to you despite the inane things you are constantly saying, and in response you call me a liar? 

I was not and am not recommending anyone carry 100lbs, but to say that I can't just shows your ignorance. Yes I have plenty of scales, from balance beam to gram, I weigh calves at birth and quantities for sale all the time. We weigh deer and other animals that get packed out of the wilderness on our backs.

But I don't actually need a scale because 1 roll of barb wire is about 80lbs, I carry two for several miles on a regular basis, plus tools. Not as hard as carrying a 100lb calf because the calf fights.

With my whole cutting setup, chainsaw, gas, bar oil, tools, spare parts, wedges, hatchet, plus my first aid kit, food, spare clothes, tent, sleeping bag, gun, water, etc. I am usually well over 100lbs.

I have packed wild mushrooms that were bought by the pound, they are weighed and they don't round up.

I have also packed an outfitter tent (at least 30lbs) to setup base camp in inaccessible locations. If people haven't slept in an outfitters tent they probably don't realize just how comfortable they can be.

I am sorry 08siboost that this went on in your thread, lots of good responses from others though. With regards to the cheaper tents, I have seen some last very well, most of them will work fine for awhile. If you can afford it I would recommend a high quality one for sure, but a mid range to cheap one should work well for a while at least. Personally I am reluctant to buy anything but a four season tent, but that has a lot to do with my location (about 300 miles north of Montana) and the fact that almost all the camping and outdoor stuff I do is farther north yet.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

08siboost said:


> Well i dont know if i mentioned it, but you can probably tell i am new to all of this.
> 
> Obviously i want my family to be safe if anything should happen, any i don't want to be cheap when it comes to buying equipment, but it is hard living on a military budget when your wife doesn't work.
> 
> ...


Tents, look at the terrain you will most likely be traveling. You want a footprint and rigging design that will work for you. For example, a mom blogger in a more urban area suggested a pop up type tent that is sturdy enough on its own without a lot of stakes and guy-out lines because she was prepping with car camping in mind, on possible gravel/concrete. Hilly/rough terrain, you might not have room for one of those family cabin style tents.
We have several: a 2 room family cabin style with screen room, great for car camping or using in state park camping areas, a helios 4 season/all weather tent, and a few of those pop up tents in carrying cases. Whatever tent you choose, set it up a few times, making sure you can set it up easily even in the dark or rainy conditions-not a good time to try to figure out the setup of a new tent. Get rid of any plastic stakes and get plenty of metal ones. Weatherproof the tent, carry duct tape and/or dental floss and needle to handle any rips along the way. A good rainfly for storms, a tent with good ventilation for warmer weather... anything I'm incorrect about or any other tips, I'll be watching this thread for suggestions.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Buy the best you can afford and use it. The using it part is more important than anything else. It's the rehearsals that work the kinks out and make the real thing go smoothly.


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## spregan (Aug 6, 2011)

I've been backpacking for a long time. My military sleeping experiences where always in a large CSH tent. Backpacker magazine is a good resource for a buying guide for tents. I have found that the most expensive tent is not always the best. Sierra Designs and REI have great tents that find a nice balance between great quality and a decent price.


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## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

Right on guys, thank you for all the responses. Now since we are always getting off topic, what would you suggest for a little space heater or something for a/c in the summer. Is there such a thing that will do both and is light and small that is battery powered?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Is this for the tent or your house?
Electric heaters are small and light, batteries to run them are not. A person can pick up 12V heaters that will run directly from a battery for very cheap but you simply will not get much heat out of batteries. Putting the heat directly where you want it such as heated socks or similar makes it slightly more practical but not much. If you need a "portable" space heater then some type of fuel is pretty much the only option. 
For cooling, fans are easily battery powered, evaporative coolers might work, but nothing substantially like air conditioning can be practically carried imo. Cooling a small area (food) is possible, barely.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

For a tent? Check out kifaru saw tooth. Backpackable tipi thing with Backpackable wood stove. I've seen YouTube videos of folks using it hunting in Alaska and it seemed to work well. $1100 though and I wouldn't carry that much weight unless it was that or freeze to death. I guess you could drag your gear on a sled in snow. AC would be a dip in a mountain stream for me.


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## 08siboost (Jun 17, 2013)

cowboyhermit said:


> Is this for the tent or your house?
> Electric heaters are small and light, batteries to run them are not. A person can pick up 12V heaters that will run directly from a battery for very cheap but you simply will not get much heat out of batteries. Putting the heat directly where you want it such as heated socks or similar makes it slightly more practical but not much. If you need a "portable" space heater then some type of fuel is pretty much the only option.
> For cooling, fans are easily battery powered, evaporative coolers might work, but nothing substantially like air conditioning can be practically carried imo. Cooling a small area (food) is possible, barely.


The tent mainly.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

For a small tent why not use a Coleman propane heater, uses the small bottle gas, I found one at a yard sale for two bucks, it work's great Called "Sportscat" For lights, use most anything LED as they use the least amount of electricity


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I guess I will have to take that back about the Coleman Sportscat, I could not find ANY heaters in the Coleman line. Guess they must have burnt down too many tents, or suffocated to many campers, or caused out of control forest fires. Maybe I should sue Coleman for gassing out and killing my favorite dog, so I get lots of money for my own SUPER DAVE COMPLEX...


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Sounds like what you want is a Backpackable apartment in a decent tent price range. Have you considered a small travel trailer and an old truck (carbuerator and extra fuses for emp scenario) with a camper top for storage? Check out Scamp travel trailers. The closest Backpackable version of what you seem to want I've seen is the kifaru sawtooth. But you're gonna pay a lot for it. Cheaper than a travel trailer though and you can wear it on your back. Hope that helps. Temperature control for an infant is important. Surface area to body mass ratio thing. Make sure you have a great water filter. Babies are much more susceptible to dehydration than adults.

Went and rechecked out the sawtooth. Even with stove it comes in at 8lbs.


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## tinker (Jun 19, 2013)

I have two Henessey hammocks. If you are BO you don't want to announce were you are. I like the idea of sleeping way off the ground. You need to use a thin pad to keep from getting chilled but my kids literally pass out in them. I am well over 280 pounds and it can handle my weight. 

One guy on you tube camps in it all year round. He will hang it low branches in the winter and dig out a snow pit to reduce wind. He then tarps the hole and can put a small stove nearby. Good idea. Just would not leave it too close to my derriere. 

A tent would be nice but the weight it eats up is a problem. I would rather have three days more food for four people than a large shelter. 

I have had dome tents, old fashioned pole tents, and the hammock is comfy and I can set it up in two minutes. It leaves no obvious traces on the ground. All you need are two trees. With a little practice you can hang your pack under its roof.

The Clark hammocks are nice too, just way to many moving parts for me and they cost three times as much.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well boost I also live in CO. And I also have 2 little ones under 5 and I also have given a lot of thought on this matter also. The only reason I would bug out on foot is a nuke and EMP blast. The only bad weather is a tornado but they don't get too numerous here. We have no nuke power stations here or even in the surrounding states. An EMP would knock out power and possibly autos. But it wouldn't be any better anywhere else either so there is no sense in walking anywhere unless you had a preset bugout farm somewhere. Combine an EMP and a nuke detonation then its time to walk somewhere else. Only problem is with tiny babies on foot in lawless areas your survival chances (and mine for that matter!) drop to near zero. Whether EMP, financial or zombie collapse we plan on bugging in. Our home is far more defensible and with supplies laid up we have much better chances of survival than wandering the earth. Besides kids take so much extra supplies that you would need a few armored strollers to carry it all. As far as your original question I have a simple pop up tent that fits my family and weighs a few pounds. We would need to carry so much other gear and food that I simply can't afford a heavier tent. That's our worst case scenario plan. If I ever have to put that plan in action I'm pretty sure our survival chances hover near zero.


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