# Becoming primitive



## icantthinkofausername (Feb 7, 2014)

So I'm tired of all the tacticool hiking and camping gear I need a way to get back to a more primitive state. A lot of my gear has been replaced with an antique form but I need a way to get rid of my backpack sleeping bag and tent, any ideas?


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Pine bough bed and oil cloth and a short piece of rope? And a wool blanket


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Go to the Fur fish and Game web site. They have a selection of small paper backed books that deal with just what you're looking for. I suggest "Woodcraft" by E.H. Kreps, and "Camp and Trail Methods", also by E.H. Kreps. There are many more, and are affordable. You also might want to check out the Primitive Buck Skinner series of books, however they are more expensive. You can find the Buck Skinner books here:
http://www.muzzleloadermag.com.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

icantthinkofausername said:


> So I'm tired of all the tacticool hiking and camping gear I need a way to get back to a more primitive state. A lot of my gear has been replaced with an antique form but I need a way to get rid of my backpack sleeping bag and tent, any ideas?


Just out of curiosity, why do you want to go primitive? When I hear things like that I often think of the guys at the Alamo and how much they'd have appreciated a crate of M-16s and ammunition. Technology can be a very good thing!

I sometimes go primitive with my bow/arrows or blackpowder rifle and Whelen lean to (along with wool blankets). But it's a game I play. In real life I prefer the comfort, weight and convenience of modern "innovations."

If you just want to simplify start taking along less stuff. IME the problem with cool "gear" is not the gear but the mindset of a person collecting it. Many of us are "gear whores" (me included) and get our pleasure out of having lots of the newest and greatest "stuff."

I can guarantee that carrying even minimal gear in a rolled up blanket that's draped over a shoulder is a lot less comfortable than transporting the same stuff in a pack. I find a sleeping bag to be less drafty than wool blankets and also lighter weight.

A Whelen Lean-to is one of the best portable primitive shelters made. However, it won't keep out mosquitos or snakes. Also, it has no floor unless you put one there yourself.

The next step down would be a tarp which has the same problems as the Whelen Lean-To.

What we've tried to do in our excursions is just get by with less stuff.

So is it going primitive you want or do you just want things to be simpler?


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## icantthinkofausername (Feb 7, 2014)

Simpler really. And more than that I want durable a lot of the modern gear I own no matter how pricey is still flimsy Chinese junk


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Buy some old Army surplus stuff. It is made to last.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Buffalo robes will keep you warm and dry... Unless you fall in a river... LOL


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## icantthinkofausername (Feb 7, 2014)

Is there a surplus sleeping bag or tent that doesn't weigh a ton?


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

You might want to check out the Horace Kephart books on Amazon.com. I think that this would be the "primitive" your looking for.


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## MCNSemperFi (Mar 25, 2014)

icantthinkofausername said:


> Is there a surplus sleeping bag or tent that doesn't weigh a ton?


Honestly, I would recommend going with a newer sleeping bag and tent because they are so much lighter. There are some quality American made sleeping bags and tents out there. The same with a good backpack.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Depends on where you are and how you take care of your stuff but *nothing* beats down in -40 or for weight. Obviously you have to keep it dry 

Wool is great for wet conditions but is not light as a "feather"  The two can work well together though.

I got tired of a lot of expensive "modern" and ultralight CRAP years ago.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

icantthinkofausername said:


> Simpler really. And more than that I want durable a lot of the modern gear I own no matter how pricey is still flimsy Chinese junk


Since you mentioned wanting to go simpler (maybe not primitive, but a slight tilt towards minimalist???), then I suggest that you re-evaluate your need vs want list, and what is in your kit/bag/pack. This may require some practical experience with what you carry...put it to use on the trail, with overnight, multi-day treks if necessary, and all-weather...the nastier the better...the kind of weather you shudder to think about spending the night in, let alone hiking in daylight hours...and don't back-track unless you must (helps build navigating skills when in unfamiliar areas). Try some short night hiking to see if you can navigate without daylight...come SHTF, you may need to to stay alive. All of this will allow you to see the real need vs what you can survive without. Also, the technical gear, and especially electronics (except maybe lighting), can be left behind and for the most part, you won't miss it, but until you are comfortable in your skills, maybe keep the GPS just in case, for example.

The "stuff" that comes in technical form, can be replaced with skills...and skills don't weigh anything, won't fail to function if it gets wet, cold, or takes a nasty drop (unless you take a bad hit to the noggin), and doesn't require a power source other than that required from the human body to achieve the desired result. You can reach a minimalist mind-set if you acquire and hone the necessary survival skills for your given environment, or the environment which you expect to need these skills. Learning the area and any special niches is always helpful. Planning is another big part of it. Know the environment you expect to be in when you need to engage your survival skills...this allows you to study what you can use that's found in nature, allowing you to carry far less with you.

I'm not familiar with any of the above mentioned books, so I can't vouch for them, but books are a good place to start, provided they don't lead you down a sketchy trail of vague descriptions regarding skills/methods.

I understand your frustration with flimsy gear. I have some pieces that I won't carry anymore after evaluating it because it won't stand up to much use before it's prone to failure. I have a few pieces that I know I will need to be careful with, or it will fail early, but still want to carry them due to their benefits...that's a personal choice. Then, I have some pieces which are nothing more than redundancy, even though they are all or mostly quite durable and reliable, such as fire-starting aids...I'm loaded with combustion sources and tinder. If there's dry fire wood and I want a fire, I have no excuse for not having one...unless I can't physically perform the task due to major injury/illness...which brings up another point: don't screw yourself up...slow, easy, and calculated...until a threat dictates otherwise.

As for gear, at one point, I had a home-made alcohol stove (for 90+% isopropyl) and 2qts of fuel...which I no longer carry. I've dumped my small stainless cook pot as well, but may want to rethink that item. Items like my own build of first aid kit, multi-tool, folding saw and small axe are about the only technical gear that I'm not completely prepared to be without...having blades ready to use saves a lot of time, and time will be valuable in a survival situation, IMHO. My shelter is simply a HD 8x10 tarp and lots of 550 cord, some spare thermal clothing, and in winter (gets down to -30*F and below) I carry a mummy bag rated to +5*F.

Understand that my environment is not one that's rich in natural survival resources, such as firewood, easily procured food or water, or natural shelter...it's open plains, for the most part. So, I plan my carry items based on the season and the environment I might find myself in, which can be somewhat varied, but mainly it's the seasons I have to make the most changes for. Layers of clothing that can be removed to avoid sweating is a big plus during cold weather...it's shelter on the go and when resting, so I carry more of that than I used to.

Your post, and my reply thus far, has reminded me that I need to continue with my own GHB evaluation. Getting back to the basics of my GHB, I'll list them as my priorities beginning with the first, I carry items for (note that there are multipurpose items):

1. Water: container(s), purification filter and tabs, and stored potable water ready to drink. This is in my chest-pack;

2. Shelter: 8x10 tarp (rain-catch/shelter), 550 cord (countless uses), layers of thermal clothing, thermal boot-length wool socks, cotton boot-length socks, beanie cap and face-mask, insulated leather gloves (uninsulated for summer), chemical body warmer packs (for hands/feet in winter, especially when sleeping) [pack as much as you can in vac-sealed bags, but be careful with the chemical warmers, they're a bit fragile];

3. Fire: Magnesium bar/rod, mag or ferro-rod, water-proof matches, butane lighter, dryer lint (tinder), petroleum jelly, hand sanitizer, 9-hr candles.

4. Food (ready-to-eat saves time and does not require the necessary gear/materials for boiling water to rehydrate, or to cook): Energy and protein bars (lots), granola, nuts, tropical fruit trail mix, jerky (lots), anything else I like that's ready to eat...calorie density, protein and nutrition is important, but not as important as being able to eat it in a SHFT situation...variety is the key for me, especially considering none of what I now carry will be a hot meal.

5. Navigation: Topographical Atlas pages for my area, lensatic compass, analog altimeter, pocket notebook, pens, pink and blue highlighters, sharpie chisel-point marker (black);

6. First Aid: this is extensive and customized to my environment (damn, I still need a snake-bite kit for western diamond-backs), and due to the very real possibility of needing it as long-term back-up for family when I get home, so it's for more than one person.

7. Tools: a few blades and sharpening tools may be all you need, but I have a small axe, folding saw, leatherman side-kick (quality made in USA tool), a couple fixed and lock-back blades including my EDC, a pocket sharpener for fine and serrated blades, a mini file set for axe/saw, several compact AA/AAA LED hand-held and/or head lamps of varied power (most are multiple output power and/or multi-mode), rechargeable batteries and alkaline batteries. Among most of my tools, I have redundancy and can easily do without some of it...but if I break or lose the only one I have, I'd be wishing...then moving on to devising plan B on the fly.

8. Water-resistance (desert/arid, not much of a priority): A poncho or other form of rain-resistant outerwear. I have dry boxes and bags for various items that I either prefer not to get wet, or will be damaged/disabled if it gets wet, is known to be sensitive to rough treatment, or I suspect may be damaged from water/impact, such as batteries, chargers, GPS, led lights, cellular. I really have a lot of "stuff" that I can do without, but currently am not willing to part with due to wanting communication with family for as long as it will last. The hand-held GPS is an item I only have as part of EDC for occasional use at work, otherwise I wouldn't even own one. Set your priorities on these items.

I recently purchased a 7-watt folding solar panel and AA/AAA battery charger/USB battery back-up which can handle all the electronics I carry, provided I have at least 2-3 good solar days/week, using spare rechargeable AA/AAA batteries. Bear in mind, I went light-weight and compact with as much of this gear as possible for the money I spent, but it's still weighing over 5lbs for all the electronics, batteries and charging abilities. I haven't weighed the whole package lately (3,450 cu in back-pack (10+ days of food, tools, FA and bulk of my gear), 1,100 cu in chest-pack (water and purification), 1,000 cu in fanny pack (mostly clothing), but I'm guessing it's close to 70lbs now.

If weight or having a bunch of complicated (possibly prone to failure) gear is an issue for you, then you really need to learn at least some minimalist methods and pack your BOB/GHB accordingly. What I won't compromise with is the ability to make fire and sanitize/purify water. I have chosen weight over minimalist for most of my needs during get-home survival, but I have my reasons for doing so. I still do study minimalist methods, but my work load, lifestyle and location doesn't allow for much time to practice them...such is life.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I have to agree with the minimize strategy, but like others have said some modern improvements are hard to beat. 
check out this sight, especially the Einar's story part, while fiction it really focuses on how little gear you need to make it.


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## icantthinkofausername (Feb 7, 2014)

I believe I've cut down my pack pretty well and after reading I may just keep with my modern gear and try to reduce the un necessairy crap a little better. Mabey I could put up a list of the gear I have and see what yall think I don't need?


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

icantthinkofausername said:


> I believe I've cut down my pack pretty well and after reading I may just keep with my modern gear and try to reduce the un necessairy crap a little better. Mabey I could put up a list of the gear I have and see what yall think I don't need?


That might help us to help you, but keep in mind that without us knowing your environment on a personal level, and not knowing your skill-set, we can only make uninformed opinions about generic scenarios. If you're an avid outdoorsman (hike, hunt, fish, trap, etc), and spend a lot of time reading your surroundings and understanding what makes things "click", and how things can turn into an unfavorable circumstance and how to cope in such events, then, you already have some very valuable skills which can help you in many survival situations. Even knowing some basic tracking skills can be vital to your ability not only to procure food, but to elude potential threats (knowing how to lessen your own impact on nature and observability to others by observing and understanding what causes tracking to be easy for those in the know)...just as one of many examples.

Anyway, yeah, with more info about your own background, skill-set and location, someone who knows the area and/or type of environment could pick out items from your list that you should be able to do without, while some items may be a coin-toss without more info. Also, consider the type of scenario you are preparing for...some situations would tend to indicate additional personal protection that others will not.

If personal protection is a priority based on the scenario your are preparing for, you will need to evaluate that need. As for the rest, I keep coming back to the basic priorities of water, shelter, fire, food, in that order (no blades or tools)...to minimize on what I would want to carry, these are the bare minimum I would attempt to hike with for any long distance or extended period of time...because I don't feel experienced enough to survive with less than that...your mileage may vary.


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## tropicdoc (May 11, 2012)

icantthinkofausername said:


> I believe I've cut down my pack pretty well and after reading I may just keep with my modern gear and try to reduce the un necessairy crap a little better. Mabey I could put up a list of the gear I have and see what yall think I don't need?


I have taught and practiced primitive skills at Firefly Gathering and Rivercane Rendezvous under many weather conditions. I also camp with modern gear. What is your gear for? Short term escape/survival? Off grid living? Pleasure camping? For primitive trips, I have a stone age kit, a long hunter style kit, and a hybrid kit that has heavy baker style tent and wood stove, with wool blankets, ground tarp, small axe, knives, and several fire starting sets from bow drill to flint and steel. I carry dried foods like jerky and apples as ready to eat cold food, plus dried vegetables, corn meal, rice and tea for hot food. My favorite light shelter is a 9 x 9 light weight tarp with both bank line and paracord for setting up same. You can see various levels of equipment and camping styles on youtube; look for Dave Canterbury.
Under true dangerous conditions, modern fire and sleeping gear is hard to beat.Modern bug repellant works better than rancid bear fat, and bacitracin does a more predictable job than a chewed herb poultice. Please evaluate your risks and plan accordingly. 
Having tactical gear is fun, but talk to people who actually live a tactical life (real cops, firefighters and soldiers) to hear about wants versus needs.


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## icantthinkofausername (Feb 7, 2014)

I think I mis used the term primitive. I more look for antique gear, gear that explorers from my grandparents times would have owned.


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## tropicdoc (May 11, 2012)

icantthinkofausername said:


> I think I mis used the term primitive. I more look for antique gear, gear that explorers from my grandparents times would have owned.


Have you looked on the Lehman's web site?


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Been primitive doesn't have to hurt.*

Going back in time is not easy in a modern world my friend, mankind needs innovations in order to survived or at least make it thru the winter, like state here already maybe what you need is less junk in your life and more practicality, take a inventory of your goods and see what you can do without and get the best your money can buy, also your planned lifestyle has a lot to do with your primitive plans, after all primitive for me is a cabin in the woods with running water and a Hooters next door.:cheers:


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

What kind of conditions? My recommendations will be different for different climates and geographical regions. My friend is hoboing in Florida right now and is using an army jungle hammock (simple net) a blanket and tarp strapped to crappy old kayak if that helps


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

readytogo said:


> Going back in time is not easy in a modern world my friend, mankind needs innovations in order to survived or at least make it thru the winter, like state here already maybe what you need is less junk in your life and more practicality, take a inventory of your goods and see what you can do without and get the best your money can buy, also your planned lifestyle has a lot to do with your primitive plans, after all primitive for me is a cabin in the woods with running water and a Hooters next door.:cheers:


RTG you must warn me before you say things like that, I just choked on a good Rum and Coke, and laughed myself silly-er. Cheers my friend.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

camo2460 said:


> RTG you must warn me before you say things like that, I just choked on a good Rum and Coke, and laughed myself silly-er. Cheers my friend.


:laugh:I`m glad you enjoy it,good day.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Survival starts after the 2nd cup of coffee, shaking the dew off the lily, and a good quick stretch. Good quality equipment, not BudK, makes my forest romping around a bit more livable, and cuts an extra trip to the anger management class. My pack weights in close to 70 lbs, getting tough to lug around at my age, after all having two back surgeries, a popped lung and a triple by-pass and some other fun life experiences during my 60 years on this planet, I'm beginning to slow down just a little. I don't use a bow and arrow to get the squirrel out of the tree anymore, just as easy to use a RPG as the squirrel comes down pre-cooked, and I prefer one of those folding chairs verses that thin log jamming my tidy whites up my septic system. Tent needs to be big enough for me to get into and store my gear, not one of those super commando field contraptions that is so small you have to back into it. Have you ever farted in one of those, a man could choke to death, you need space above you as heat/stink rises. Life needs to be simple at my age and easy. At the end of the trip well that Hooters is a plus, the wings and the other things make for sweet dreams back at home in my nice soft bed.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

extreme roughing it for me is a black and white TV in the motor home.


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