# How to harden a vehicle against an EMP



## gilacr

Does anyone know how to harden a newer vehicle against an EMP? Or, where to find information on it? Thanks for any help ya'll can give.


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## hiwall

If you do a search you will find that many 'experts' believe that most modern vehicles will still run after an EMP.


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## LastOutlaw

gilacr said:


> Does anyone know how to harden a newer vehicle against an EMP? Or, where to find information on it? Thanks for any help ya'll can give.


Yes buy an old one.


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## Balls004

I honestly don't know whether today's car can survive a severe EMP or a tactical EMP. I'm an ASE certified Tech, but I don't think that with the proliferation of electronics that many will make it. LastOutlaw said it best, buy an old one.

But you might be able to wrap your newer car in tinfoil if you have enough warning, and a roasting hen inside, so if the car won't crank, at least you'll have a nice microwaved meal before you start walking


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## LastOutlaw

gilacr said:


> Does anyone know how to harden a newer vehicle against an EMP? Or, where to find information on it? Thanks for any help ya'll can give.


Yes buy an old one.


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## SwordsandSaddles

I have heard too many opinions on both sides of the fence. Don't have anything useful to add, my apologies.


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## Tirediron

check out this info http://endtimesreport.com/EMP.html
he used to list a protection kit


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## Caribou

The truth is nobody knows for sure. The most credible information, to me, suggests that there are so many variables that some vehicles will work while others will not. The metal in the car will provide some protection. This means that certain models, because of style and computer placement will do better than others. The further you are from ground zero may affect your outcome. 

There are several computers on these newer vehicles so certain functions may not work. The car may run but the heater, radio, and windows don't work, or vice versa. Most of us have had computer problems where all we had to do was power down the unit and wait for a bit then power it up. That may work here for some vehicles. It is certainly worth the time it takes to disconnect one battery terminal, wait, then reconnect it, to find out if you won the lottery. Some, all, or none of the functions will return.

The safest is to have an old car. Another option is to determine the critical weak points and to acquire spare parts for those. These parts would need to be kept in a faraday cage. Modern heating systems contain parts with microchips. I keep a set of these parts, for my boiler, in old holiday cookie tins.


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## hiwall

I have never heard if you are protected by being on the lee side of a mountain. They blast the EMP at a very high altitude because its effects are more or less line-of-sight? Does that mean then that the mountain next to me can protect me (at least from that direction)? If the blast happens while you are in a tunnel are you protected? If your garage has one wall that is earth sheltered does that wall protect you from that side? Just something I have wondered about.


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## Cotton

I used to live near Arnold Air Force Base which is near Tullahoma TN. I was a civilian engineer in a civilian field unrelated to anything military at the time. However, I knew an engineer socially who… worked on the base. It was a emp testing facility. Short answer… “they” don’t even know! Aside from the fact anything since electronic ignition is designed to fail. If you want to have a chance of a running vehicle, it'd better be pre 1975, either diesel of gas... or better yet rigged to run as a gasifier. imho


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## Tirediron

theoretically an EMP would need an antenna to build up enough voltage to fry components, an ECM not connected to anything should live through a "zap". 
Probably the safest bet would be to configure a stand alone engine transmission management system that could be plugged into the harness after the fact. 

Hardening might include a conductive sheath around a double insulated sheath covering all of the system circuits, the cost would be a little high, making a purpose built BOV seem cheap.


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## Viking

A number of years back I read an article about someone disabling a Corvette from a fair distance by burning out it's computer with a device that he wouldn't disclose, I'm pretty sure from seeing what the device looked like that what the device was was a homemade portable microwave unit using the tube and power supply from a microwave oven, ran by a car battery. I have a couple of those that i got from old microwave ovens that still worked, with the idea that I might try making an electronics disabler, however I know from talking with a guy I knew when I was a teenager, that worked on Navy radar units, that you have to be extremely careful working around microwave because it's possible to get your insides cooked.


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## HamiltonFelix

A few years ago, I saw video of a device the police can use to replace the old spike strip. This device, on a cord as I recall, being a flat strip maybe 4 feet long, was placed in the middle of a traffic lane. As the target vehicle passed over it, there was a discharge (I think I saw a visible spark) and the target vehicle died, not to run again until the shop installed a new processor for engine management. 

A few years ago, a friend and fellow Hydroelectric Operator bought a new VW Passat, then drove from Washington to Maine, where he parked behind his parents' GM car while visiting. Lightning struck a tree next to the driveway; both cars were found to be dead, and subsequently towed to dealerships. The GM was repaired, including three processors - engine management, transmission and climate control. The VW dealership went over the nearly new Passat, talked with the insurance company, then declared it a total loss and they wrote my friend a check. He bought a new car and drove home.

So, Robin, the BatRay is real. You can zap a car. As to EMP, I don't know. There are three components to an EMP, and they differ greatly between one caused by a high altitude thermonuclear bomb and one caused by a coronal mass ejection like the Carrington event of 1859 (which set telegraph stations on fire).

I have the government's 2008 report, along with other literature. I've read the info at Futurescience.com and I still have lots of questions. I guess the safest bet would be an old type diesel with a manual starting option; no electrcity would be needed. Hmmm...... Do they make Coffman starters for diesels, or maybe Field Marshall tractor starters or hand cranked inertial starters?

Based on what I've seen in 41 years at my trade, the hydro powerhouses of the 1960's would be recoverable after a fairly severe EMP, but not the powerhouses of today. 

I think the severe EMP scenario in One Second After is fairly accurate so far as 90% die off in the first year. Scary thing is, the PTB's may actually want this.


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## LincTex

It's entirely possible if you know how to shield conductors.

Work on most military equipment & aircraft and you will see how they do it - copy that and you're good. However, its expensive and really time consuming.

Rumor has it Russian warplanes use "vacuum tube" type radios, since an EMP won't kill "tubes" like it will transistors!



HamiltonFelix said:


> As to EMP, I don't know. There are three components to an EMP, and they differ greatly between one caused by a high altitude thermonuclear bomb and one caused by a coronal mass ejection like the Carrington event of 1859 (which set telegraph stations on fire).


A "Carrington event" won't kill a car - you need a lot of wire over a distance to gather enough electrons to do it harm.
A HEMP would be the "semi-conductor killer".



HamiltonFelix said:


> I guess the safest bet would be an old type diesel with a manual starting option; no electrcity would be needed. Hmmm...... Do they make Coffman starters for diesels, or maybe Field Marshall tractor starters or hand cranked inertial starters?


I have a little direct-injection Chinese diesel tractor that is hand crank. I can use it to pull my Cummins powered F-250 to a hilltop (all mechanical diesel) and then coast it downhill and pop the clutch to get it running if the starter is fried. I can then use the truck to pull-start other diesel trucks and tractors. I also have a "made in India" Lister-type 6-1 diesel (Listeroid)



HamiltonFelix said:


> I think the severe EMP scenario in One Second After is fairly accurate so far as 90% die off in the first year. Scary thing is, the PTB's may actually want this.


Scary indeed.


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## Marcus

gilacr said:


> Does anyone know how to harden a newer vehicle against an EMP? Or, where to find information on it? Thanks for any help ya'll can give.


I'd start by keeping the vehicle in a garage/ carport with metal over head that is properly grounded. That will help when it's parked.

For the vehicle itself, it all depends on the location of the various microprocessors and the construction of the vehicle.

I'd start with a grounding strap like was used on gasoline trucks in the old days. They're pretty cheap (~$10) and will also protect you against static discharge.

The next thing you'd want to do is ground the hood to the frame. This assumes the hood is metal. If it isn't, you could always fabricate a metal liner to fit under the hood and ground it to the frame. A piece of insulated wire of a proper gauge, 2 wire end connectors, and 2 metal screws would probably suffice.

Most cars I am familiar with have the main microprocessor in the vicinity of the glove box. Therefore I'd go ahead and shield the whole top of the dashboard area and ground it. The cheap way to go here is to use a fold up metallic sun block with alligator clips so it can be grounded.

How well would all of this work? No one knows, but it is a reasonable way to try to mitigate the effects without spending a fortune.

What about if you're driving down the road when it hits? That's when you'll want to have a replacement ECM handy. Like in the trunk or behind the seat in a metal box. You'll also need the proper hand tools to replace it.

The shielding part isn't hard; it's the going into the dashboard and finding everything that needs to be shielded then shielding it that will be hard. I strongly suggest getting the shop manual for your vehicle. It will come in handy for many other things besides this.


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## Balls004

Personally, and this isn't based on any scientific proof, is that if a sufficient EMP whether manmade or natural hits us, it's going to wreck havoc on many of the things we count on today. Some things might be more tolerant of an EMP, but from what I can tell, for the average person, it's not going to be good.

A lot of the stuff I used in the military was shielded, but no one really knew if it was still going to work when hit.


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## LincTex

Balls004 said:


> A lot of the stuff I used in the military was shielded, but no one really knew if it was still going to work when hit.


The science of shielding is known, and it is excellent.

No one knows how a _civilian_ vehicle will react....

but a properly shielded wiring system is EMP proof, I can assure you. The amount of RF we throw at some systems in a test cell will burn anything organic with moisture (plant or animal based). The shielded wiring makes it out fine, as long as the shielding is properly grounded.


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## FrankW

gilacr said:


> Does anyone know how to harden a newer vehicle against an EMP? Or, where to find information on it? Thanks for any help ya'll can give.


There is not "need to harden an modern vehicles vs EMP."
This has been answered on here many times before by members who actually understand the subject (though widely ignored):surrender:

Think about it like this.

A lighting strike nearby a car is a *much greater* EMP impact than a HEMP or similar.
yet in most cases they are fine afterward. ( tho exceptions clearly exist)

Case closed. 

( that doesnt mean you'll be able to use the vehicles inside conurbation as event related and grid down traffic jams may NEVER get cleared)

yes a prepper you need to have the most reliable vehicle you can.
Do they build 'em like they used to?

No and thank your lucky stars they don't.

Never before have cars been this reliable, you cna tell by the evolution of warranties. in the 50's it used to be no warranties or if u were lucky 3000 or 5000 miles.

Now powertrain warranties of 5yrs/ 60,000 miles are the new normal and many are 10 yrs/100,000 miles


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## Tirediron

Someone deciding that they know via theory is far different from empirical data, the statement that today's vehicles are better than those from 15 years ago is a fantasy, Chrysler offered 100000 mile drive train warranty in the eighties, warranty is for manufacturer defects and workmanship not a guarantee that the product will not wear or fail. voltage regulator failure can wreck an ECM, so outside over voltage isn't going to go unnoticed.


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## readytogo

EMP interference is generally disruptive or damaging to electronic equipment and at higher energy levels a powerful EMP event such as a lightning strike can damage physical objects such as buildings and aircraft structures so a direct hit just sell the vehicle to the nearest junk yard but newer vehicles have many safety features like fuses, fuse links ,breakers and some of this features are resettable last year a close to home lighting strike set off my fuel pump relay while the vehicle was in motion, a $7 fix, but if you are really concern just sell your all electronic toy and buy a model-T.


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## fteter

Noodled on this for a long, long time. Even sat down with NASA engineers to talk through it. It finally comes down to three options, so far as I can tell:

1. As LincTex suggested, shield the vehicle electronics. Time consuming and expensive for most of today's vehicles, but possible. Had one NASA engineer tell me that if you do it to military specs and the shielding fails, you won't be around to worry about it - and that such a scenario was so improbable that it was not worth serious consideration.

2. As LastOutlaw suggested, buy an old vehicle...pre-1975, as I recall. Great suggestion, if you can find one that runs worth a hoot or you're a decent mechanic...not many of today's mechanics know how to service older vehicles anymore. And you'll want to stock up on spare parts, as the well is running dry of parts for vehicles that old. You can still get 'em, but they're getting harder and harder to find as the years roll by.

3. Buy a bicycle. Ride it often enough to be comfortable with it. Get a detachable cart for hauling stuff. Cheap, reliable petal power. No EMP, CMP, or HEMP worries. 

I chose door #3 because my transportation needs in an emergency scenario would be mainly local, so motorized transportation is not at the top of the priority list.

Everybody's situation is different...can't tell you what's right for you. I can only share my own experiences and hope it helps.


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## LincTex

BlueZ said:


> A lightning strike nearby a car is a *much greater* EMP impact than a HEMP or similar. yet in most cases they are fine afterward. ( tho exceptions clearly exist)
> Case closed.


I don't think so... Lightning is real electricity, and lots of it. Is that what an EMP resembles? Not from what I heard. A lightning strike is very localized energy where an EMP is actually greater energy over a larger area.

If an EMP much more resembles a very large RADAR emitter or huge microwave oven, then you cannot compare it to lightning. The two types of energy do not exhibit similar properties...

...but both can be fatal - AGAIN, in different ways. Lightning can kill you by amperage flowing in an area of your body that disturbs the electrical impulses that control heartbeat and pulmonary functions. Massive amounts of RF will cook you from the inside out.


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## LincTex

fteter said:


> It finally comes down to three options, so far as I can tell:.


4. Get a Shovelhead or Evo Harley-Davidson  ('68-'99)

The voltage regulator and ignition module will both fit in a 3"x5" recipe card box. Heck, a pair of *each* would fit in there!


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## Caribou

5. A Di Balzi motorcycle. Fold it up and put the whole thing inside a metal trash can with room to spare for radios, night vision, and a few other odds and ends. Neither as cool nor as fast as a Harley but...

http://www.diblasi.com


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## Marcus

LincTex said:


> I don't think so... Lightning is real electricity, and lots of it. Is that what an EMP resembles? Not from what I heard. A lightning strike is very localized energy where an EMP is actually greater energy over a larger area.


Actually, BlueZ is both somewhat correct and somewhat mistaken.

The E2 component is similar to lightning though weaker. In that, he is correct.

However he is totally disregarding the E1 & E3 components. For a vehicle, the E3 is a non-issue since the E3 is predicated on long runs (miles) of wire.

The E1 is the semiconductor killer and is what will destroy the control modules by exceeding design breakdown voltages. This is why shielding is needed.


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## gilacr

Thanks to everyone for your advice. The whole question started as a what if scenario with my wife so I thought I would ask you guys for some input. It helps open the door to getting a 1973 dodge power wagon I've been looking at


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## LincTex

gilacr said:


> Thanks to everyone for your advice. The whole question started as a what if scenario with my wife so I thought I would ask you guys for some input. It helps open the door to getting a 1973 dodge power wagon I've been looking at


If you get it, trash the crappy mopar electronic ignition box (or save it for a spare, I guess?).

Between Ford, GM and Chrysler - GM HEI modules are the best design, Ford Duraspark is good (I have never had one fail) and the mopar ones are the worst design.

Chrysler external voltage regulators take all of 45 seconds to change.


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## Tirediron

If it is stock it will still have point and condenser ignition, but it will have probably have been updated, in which case Linc is spot on, and if it still has points there are ways to include the modules in the loop, taking the arc load off the points, which we can cover if you get it


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## LincTex

Nope.

Mopars were already electronic ignition in '73. They were first.


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## Tirediron

Shows what I know about crapsler. they did it first and sucked the worst, I still don't believe that the slap dash monkeys used a sheetmetal screw to hold and ground the voltage regulator. There must have been a "how can we make the best charging system of the era an unreliable piece of junk" department


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## 65Covair

As a side note, future weapons did an EMP episode on a Ford Taurus and it ended up that the pulse generator killed the car's computer but the analog systems still worked, ie the power windows still worked.


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## Marcus

If that's the episode I remember, they drove the car under the EMP gun.


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## gabbyj310

I've wondered about which car/truck to invest in that might be good after a EMP.Since it's just me and I have't a clue how to "fix" any of these things and no one around that could, I have been in a complete dilemma..So after much thought on this,I came up with an excellent idea(my female mind working) Since I have the land and live near the Amish why not take a page from their book....Horse and wagon/cart.Then all I have to worry about is feed not gas too.


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## SwordsandSaddles

I have a rowboat...


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## LincTex

We are at pretty high risk....


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## gabbyj310

Looks like unless we are underground ,we are all in for trouble.My guess like most of us on here we will do the best we can when we can and IF we can).You can't prep for every scenario out there unless you've got much more money and help than I have.I trudge forward everyday and TRY to plan for whatever I can. I've looked and searched the internet and made dozens of calls about a underground home,just for smart homesteading,lower bills and I am the biggest coward in the world when it comes to tornadoes too.Ha you would think I'm JPaul Getty ..So I buy my extra "stores",Trying to get me a well dug,and the "tin mansion" livable,then I need the 4wd truck as major purchases,after that I'm as good as I will get.Then just add,add,add.And pray!!


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## Marcus

From Linc's video (part 2):
It will take somewhere between $500 million and $2 billion to protect the national grid from the E3 component *and* a CME (Carrington Event.)

From the estimates given, it will tend towards the *lower* end of the range as prices have fallen for this technology. Simple things like building Faraday cages around the major transformers and perhaps armoring them with thicker metal so they're resistant to rifle fire and RPGs. This is cheap protection given these transformers are made in Europe (Siemens?) and South Korea with long lead times.

Maine has already passed some legislation to begin protecting their grid, and several other states are following suit.
In Texas, contact your legislators and ask them to support HB 2289 & HB 3552.

It was also interesting to hear that *there was no lower limit on the yield of a nuclear weapon* that didn't affect some solid state electronics.


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## jimLE

*i've seen this topic come up in other sites.and the best idea i've come up with.is the car ports that have tin sides.maybe even one for RV'S...bring the sides all the way down to the ground.and maybe a concrete slab.or wooden floor for every thing to sit on..and have doors on each end of it.then insulate the inside with something.and then go with a sheetrock or wood walls..*


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## LincTex

jimLE said:


> *...bring the sides all the way down to the ground.and maybe a concrete slab.or wooden floor for every thing to sit on..and have doors on each end of it.then insulate the inside with something.*


*

Pound in deep two long copper-coated ground rods - one in front & one in back. When the vehicle is parked, hook a jumper cable from each front and rear bumpers to each ground rod.

It can't hurt.*


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## Tirediron

LincTex said:


> Pound in deep two long copper-coated ground rods - one in front & one in back. When the vehicle is parked, hook a jumper cable from each front and rear bumpers to each ground rod.
> 
> It can't hurt.


Linc, what is your opinion on using a main disconnect switch that would open the positive side of the battery connection and close the vehicle side (of the positive system) to the negative side ?? :scratch:scratch
This would only provide "protection is shutdown situations, but it would be cheap.


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## jimLE

*i agree with the copper rods part.but not the jumper cables,much less connecting to the vehicle.id use the a little heaver gage wire the use on power line poles and on electric meters..in which id run from the copper rod to the car port..that should be more then good enough to keep a emp and lighting strikes from whats inside..oh.and maybe lightening rods along the peak of the car port roof.and with the corrper wire going from them,down to the copper rods..*


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> Linc, what is your opinion on using a main disconnect switch that would open the positive side of the battery connection and close the vehicle side (of the positive system) to the negative side ??.


My opinion is it will only do good things. Electrical damage can only occur due to the excessive flow of electrons (overloaded). If a circuit is completely shorted to ground, there is no flow anywhere. Your idea of disconnecting the positive side and then grounding the cable can only add more safety margin.


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## readytogo

*EMP protection.........*

We just had a power surge, everything on jump for a few seconds and all timers and clocks had to be reset also while working on my electronics I always have to ground myself and my tools have a plastic sleeve in order to avoid a simple static charge, a simple static charge not a EMP of 50.000 volts which it will fry any component in a computer or communication device, even if the device is unplug, EMP travels like a radio wave so if the device is not shield it will fry also. In our world today everything is smaller and full of wires and capacitors, etc, meaning that it will take a small amount of energy to damage the equipment, especially communication equipment, your vehicle computer in one of the many devices that will fry in a second, so if you don`t have the proper shielding material or plenty of back parts you can expect to be left out by the side of the road or with no communication whatsoever ,hell even your toaster have a small mother board that will definitely burn ,that is why the military and government installations have what is call a "Faraday Cage", dual protection not only from an air wave attack but also hard wire and only the main components are protected, wiring hardness are cheap, so if you want top of the line protection for your 4x4 truck you need the stuff install in the M1 Abram tank.


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