# Coyotes and goats



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

As some of you know we are now setting up our goat pens on the homestead. When we first moved onto this property we were surprised at the large amount of coyotes here. In the evenings they were all along our fence lines and pretty much surrounding the home. We have heard them as close as 50 to 80 feet from our front door. The last owners didn't traipse out onto the property much and in fact sat on the front porch watching deer and listening to coyotes in the evenings. 
At that time I have seen them jump through barbed wire fences down the pasture and cut across the property. Since I am all over the property they seem to have moved further back. Last night however when my gal let the dogs out she heard them pretty close to the new goat fences. The dogs took off in their direction. My lab hates them and will attack them if she sees them. My husky is kind of dumb though and doesn't realize the seriousness of them. 
When we first moved in I flushed one out that was laying in an open field and was surprised at the size of these. They are huge! Easily as large as my full grown husky. They also seem to have cross bred with dogs and have some dogs in their pack.

I know as I add more livestock they are going to become an issue.
Does anyone have any experience with hunting them? 
I'm pretty sure I am going to have to cull the pack.
Our goats right now are pretty expensive registered milk goats and we will be adding more very soon then will be expanding into meat goats right behind that. I don't want to lose any of them.

Hogs will be coming in behind the goats.
I have some pretty good hunting equipment but have no experience hunting coyotes.

Any tips from experienced coyote hunters would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

You can find screaming rabbit sounds online to couple with bait. Bait a spot at night with some chicken that's been sitting in the sun all day somewhere else. If you don't have a night vision scope some low light around the bait and a red dot scope will work. A suppressor will help you get a lot more of them. Rinse and repeat. There are a lot of nasty ways to kill them that I don't do like poison and meat laced with razor blades. At my hunting lease I do what I said with a suppressor and night vision scope. You don't need expensive night vision. Gen 1 for about 100 bucks will do it.

Edit. Just looked online and the night vision scope I got a great deal on on sale doesn't seem to be around at that price. I found a night vision monocular for 137 that would work combined with a simple red dot scope. Good hunting Outlaw


----------



## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I'm no expert for sure,
I have found the best way to get them is with bait, dead rabbits, groundhogs, deer carcass...

Electronic callers work pretty good too. set at 100 yrds from you.

You got to be downwind of where they are,, and you can not be moving. 
Dusk /Dark is the best, as CBLouis said , if you can get a night vision scope...your chances go way up.. 

They can see you blink an eye at 100 yrds, they can smell ya at 1/2 mile.

They will change their route and never repeat it , if they spot you.

They are wiley.

Jim


----------



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

The pic I posted is from a game camera I set up. When I sent it to a friend I know who hunts coyote he asked if it was a hybrid. Notice the short tail.

I do have a couple of roosters that need to be removed from the coop. Maybe a live one staked out in the field would work.


----------



## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

That rooster would work.

The yotes in my area are not as plump/fat as that one, and he may be hybrid, or just lost his tail somehow.


Jim


----------



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

phideaux said:


> That rooster would work.
> 
> The yotes in my area are not as plump/fat as that one, and he may be hybrid, or just lost his tail somehow.
> 
> Jim


Im tellin ya.. they are huge here. They eat well I think.


----------



## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Snares are also a good option as they are working when you are not. Snares for Coyotes can be purchased from many online sources, and are pretty cheap. Options for setting them are also varied and easy, such as finding a place where a Coyote is traveling under the Fence and hanging a Snare there, or setting up a "Cubby Set" where you create an enclosure, with the opening covered with a Snare, and baited with Chicken or other Meat.


----------



## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Okay, I have been raising goats (some Kiko and Boer, but mostly registered dairy goats) for over 20 years. What you need is a LIVESTOCK GUARDIAN DOG. A good LGD is worth its weight in gold!

I have had Great Pyrenees, Akbash, Kuvasz, and Anatolian Shepherd, and each one has its strong points. For coyotes and wandering dog packs, I recommend you get a pair of Great Pyrenees or Akbash. For wolf, Anatolian Shepherd (although I know of someone that had really good results with Maremma). For mountain lion, I'd have 3 Anatolians or Kangal.

You can google these breeds of livestock dog and find out more about them, but here are some of the reasons you want dogs instead of having to hunt or trap the coyotes:


A dog is ALWAYS on call. A LGD lives with the flock/herd and thinks it's the biggest, baddest goat in the field. It is always alert. In fact, a lot of people complain that some LGDs (especially Pyrs) bark all night, but that's because that is when the predators are most active.
LGDs will lay down their life for their family -- if you raise it with your goats, it will defend to its last drop of blood those goats. If you take a pup and raise it with your children, it will defend them with the same fervor.
LGDs are smart and independent. They consider obedience optional, because they have to decide if there is a danger or not. You're not always going to be there to give permission.
LGDs are incredibly strong and swift. They may look lazy, because they spend a lot of the day snoozing with the herd/flock, but at night....or anytime there is a perceived danger...they spring into action so fast it looks like a blur.
LGDs can reproduce. They usually have large (9-11 pups) litters, and in a shtf situation, they could become very valuable barter items.
If you kill or trap the coyotes, it not only requires a lot of your time, but the absence of coyotes will leave a vacuum some larger predator might fill.

Even though we've heard coyotes many times in the night, I have never lost a goat to coyotes.

One morning I woke up to find my goats out...with their Akbash guardian tagging along. The electric fence was ripped to pieces and my Anatolian had a 3-inch scratch on her nose. I never found out what tried to get in the pasture, but the dogs both got hamburger for breakfast!

Here is a good article about LGDs:
http://americanpreppersnetwork.com/2011/03/lgds-guardians-for-family-and-flock.html

As I said, I've raised dairy goats for over 20 years, and I would NEVER have a herd in a rural or isolated area without a dog or two in the pasture. But remember, the dog MUST be raised with the animals it's supposed to guard, and don't get just any dog....you need a genuine Livestock Guardian Dog.


----------



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

We have just bought a donkey to grow with the goats. The neighbors here have had 3 great Pyrenees killed by the Yotes. Can the donkey do the job?


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Did you buy a place in Central NM? Sounds like where my new place is. I have a mare that hates dogs. She thinks coyotes are toys. Of course goats/dogs.... same size so to her they are toys too. :brickwall: I can't turn them out together but she is good for keeping dogs away from the goat pens.


----------



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

No not in NM. The donkey seems to very much like the goats, She is 7 months old and lets the goats walk under her and they all bed down together and graze together. I also have a large alpha gelding that will attack dogs and I'm guessing coyotes. He is in the pasture between the goats and the woods. The pasture is 10 acres though and I'm sure he can't guard it all.


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

It sounds like your coyotes may be hunting in packs if they are killing large dogs. They don't do that often around here (our old place), but stray/wild dogs have been a problem. One of the local ranchers had several pairs of wolf hounds out with his cattle. Says it helps.


----------



## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

A couple of donkeys are wonderful, if you get the right ones&#8230; They will chase coyotes with gusto and pleasure. If you get the wrong Jack&#8230; they have been known to kill new born calves, I don't know about goats.

Here are a couple of places I get trapping supplies, even snares, ready made or make your own.

https://www.nwtrappers.com/

http://www.fntpost.com/

Another tidbit about coyotes, canines can't see in the "black light" wave length. Back in my day the stores that sold "black lights" were called "head shops". Years ago I knew some guys up in TN who would hang "black lights" around their chicken pens. Coyotes were not aware they were being illuminated, easy targets.


----------



## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Cotton and Camo2460 have the right idea about using snares. Trapping works 24/7 as opposed to hunting. Yotes are very scent shy but fencelines and livestock areas already have your scent plastered everywhere. They have a habit of pacing up and down the fences looking for a weak spot or opening. Use that to your advantage. You will soon notice the grass trampled down outside the fences. You can also create a hole or gap in the fence if your goats are locked up. Use a metal t-post for an anchor and hang a snare in the trail/gap. Just remember to keep your dogs up when trapping. The snares will kill them just as effectively as it will a coyote. The bobtail on your coyote was probably caused by an injury or infection not breeding with dogs. Coyotes will try to lure your dogs out where a pack can kill them so watch out. As you thin down their numbers, you will also notice the size of their litters will increase. They are very smart, effective predators. You can thin them down but will never eliminate them.


----------



## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

If the coyotes killed your neighbor's Great Pyrenees, I would guess they were just using one dog at a time, because LGDs tend to work together, cooperatively, to deter predators. I simply can't see a pack of coyotes taking down 3 Pyrs at once.

If the predators are particularly vicious, though, get a pair of Anatolians. They've been bred for thousands of years to fight off wolves.


----------



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

I was just reading a news article about a farm that rears turkeys for Christmas here in the U.K and apparently they have brought in some Alpacas to protect the birds from foxes. It says they are used in different parts of the world to deter wild dogs and coyotes also:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-38133658

We get foxes around the farm. They don't cause us many problems so I don't like to go too hard on them.... it can be counter productive. I usually go out at night with the lamp and call them in. Very occasionally in the daytime a fox will appear and I'll grab the rifle and deal with it just to keep the farmer happy. Farmer's here typically hate foxes to the point of persecution. In the case of foxes when using a lamp you can't afford to miss if you decide to take the shot. They don't tend to give you a second chance. I imagine coyotes would be just as intelligent. Looking at photos I can see they are impressive looking animals, I didn't realize how big they were.


----------



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

Since Uriel was nice enough to revive this thread I think it might be a good time to update the info on our goat project. 

We have invested in two different types of goats. Nigerian dwarfs and Boers. All of our Nigerians are high blood lines registered goats. We purchased two buckling and 3 full grown does.

As for the Boers, we purchased a 50% registered full grown female with a young doeling that is 98% upon meeting a neighbor who raises and show Boer goats. 

Shortly thereafter we attended a ABGA Boer show to get an idea of what judges are looking at and for. Hopefully we can sell registered show goats that people can use n 4h or FFA. We also will pursue the commercial side of the Boers and have purchased a few along those lines. 

The next step was to purchase a good looking registered buck for our herd. We attended a show and bought a Young buck 100% with a lot of ennoblement and good names in his blood lines. We had some neighbors with us that raise and show Boers to help make good choices. At this show we bought another young doe also 100% registered. 

That is when we brought home the pink eye. UGGGGH. We worked through that which seemed to attack our Nigerians the worst possibly because the last owner was into holistic medicine.

Coyotes: We have a large active pack near us. We hear them every night. They used to be all along our fence lines and even came close to the house when we moved in. They since have moved back. There actually are a few packs around us but this one is very close. We were very concerned.

We bought a young Donkey (7Mnths) and brought her in. She seemed to adopt the Nigerian bucklings immediately. She is very loving and can get rambunctious at times, running, chasing and bucking around the small goat pasture. Water hose can calm her down when she gets too fired up pretty easily. 

We just also added two 3/4 Pyrenees- 1/4 Anatolian Male pups. They are living in the goat pens full time. 

So far no losses...knock wood...and everything seems to be coming along nicely.


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

LastOutlaw said:


> Since Uriel was nice enough to revive this thread I think it might be a good time to update the info on our goat project.
> 
> We have invested in two different types of goats. Nigerian dwarfs and Boers. All of our Nigerians are high blood lines registered goats. We purchased two buckling and 3 full grown does.
> 
> ...


For 4-H and FFA show goats, don't spend a fortune just for papers. The kids are looking for good conformation and meat qualities. Most animals go to the butcher after the fair is over. The sales, at least around here, never offer papers with the goats. They just aren't important so if you find a sound, well built animal I'd give it a serious look.


----------



## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm on my second Pyr.. I only do rescues and they don't come along often .. they aren't technically dogs , they don't act like dogs.. dog look to humans for guidance Pyr's if you would just pay attention, I know it frustrates mine when I don't Give guidance to humans other dogs goats sheep flowers lawnchairs and cats .. And we are all under his protection.

no.. I kid , a little , they are strong willed and you have to be seriously alpha with them .. they are one of the oldest dog breeds known some say 11,000 years some say 4,000 years and there is actually some disagreement about them being dogs .. modern dogs genetically descended from wolves as we know them. There are some gaps in a Pyr's genetics . The prevailing theory is at one time there were a greater variety of wolf types and they had an ancestor and that ancestor thru an now extinct wolf type gave us Great Pyrenees they have a double dewclaw on their hind legs hmm cool trivia you say.. nope PITA it's for mountain climbing The Pyrenees as I am sure everybody knows is a mountain range between Spain and France .. I have never seen them but they must be very unusual mountain that bear a striking resemblance to 6 foot fences of any description .. You don't train a Pyr to guard stuff you will just screw it up and the Pyr will lose all respect for you and not even come when you ask. and make no mistake , this is not a joke , you ask and reward and maintain trust you never punish a Pyr .. they won't attack you or anything but they will start to ignore you and then look for a better employer The training was all done several thousand years ago .. Pyrs that protected the flock got fed and Pyrs that didn't protect the flock got eaten it is hard wired they will take on anything, their primary tactic and they do have tactics, is to drive the threat away Grizzly Bears moose mountain lions coyotes and wolves there is a video on you tube. you can look it up if so inclined a Pyr V two wolves.. they bark and feint if they can't drive it away they kill it or die trying .. They are equipped in ways most dogs aren't .. yes many dogs have thick luscious Fur , few can turn 180 degrees inside their own skin , greatest bite force of any dog . They are big 110 to 150 pounds they are fast .. they look like a flocati rug, and they make a good one.. but their hearing is exceptionally acute and can go from you thought they were asleep to in somethings face 60 yards away in roughly 5 seconds my step son has a greyhound whippet cross rescue and that poor dog will run himself to death trying to catch my Pyr Bear ..Greywhippet doesn't understand leg length and stride span http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/Great-Pyrenees-rescue.html

two part story part 1 http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/livestock-guardian-dogs.html part 2 http://www.great-pyrenees-club-of-southern-ontario.com/livestock-guardian-dogs-2.html
Bears 




 




Moose 



 for you that know what moose meets dog means this will amaze you

fire 




Duck 




lamb 




Goat 



 




kids 




rabbits


----------



## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

this is for all the dogs that aren't here


----------

