# Water Well Drilling Rig rental for Average Joe



## easyshack

We need a water well, got some prices. Just a 150ft water well these guys want 12,000 bucks. And the only guarantee is they will cash your check before the sun goes down. For 12k, seems like you could get at least the grarntee that you would have water. Seems like after these guys drill for 40 yrs, they would know if you have water or not. Anyway, I don't have 12k, we just bought our dream retreat 6 acres in the woods of east Texas.
I can do the septic, and drive way, but water well drilling, we must have. I did some checking and Drillcat.com has info on drilling rig rental. 650 per day.
I feel better about gambling with 650 bucks instead of 12k. Even if I get a loan, man I will be old before it paid for. The Rigs they offer for rent are larger trailer rigs, not the small toy hydra turds. In most states you can drill your own water well on your land or land you have leased. My brother needs a well, so he is going to lease me his land for 1$ for 30 days, then I can drill him a well, and be legal.
I will keep posted, we start this weekend.


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## LincTex

Your post sounds a lot like an advertisement.

Interesting website, though.

http://www.drillcat.com/


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## LincTex

You have 5 posts to your name... and every one of them mentions drillcat.

OK, here's where I get rubbed - why be sneaky about it? Why don't you just come out and say you work for drillcat? Would that be so hard to do?

There's no pain in being honest about it, and you can save yourself the time and trouble of coming up with some stupid story where you can make a plug for drillcat. 

Lastly - "owned and operated by Missionary Alliance". Now, I am offended because I hate it when people make Christians look bad.


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## LincTex

Are you the same guy as this (drilleditmyself, Drillingfab, Rockbuster) ?

http://forums.homestead.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=2208&KW=drilleditmyself
_
"It's kinda sad, really, because if the plans are for real and will help build a good rig on the cheap, the guy could have simply come here and said "Hey, folks, my name is __________ and I have some drilling rig plans that might be of use to you..." And, if he really has the 20 acres that were mentioned in some of the other posts, and if he really has driven/drilled three wells on that property and is knowledgeable about welding and is a DIY'er, he probably would fit right in here...

Just goes to show that, at the end of the day, you've GOT to be honest with people... "_


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## LincTex

Bad reviews on the drillcat plans book:

http://www.amazon.com/Portable-Water-Drilling-Plans-Drillcat-com/product-reviews/159971342X


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## FatTire

nice catch LincTex!


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## Well_Driller

I have my doubts that the average person could go rent a rig and get a successful well on the first try, and that's after they figure out how to make a hole in the ground without loosing something.... I seen a brand new rotary setup to drill an oil well, all new equipment, they had an experienced crew but even then they lost $12,000 worth of tooling down the hole that they never got out. They had to move the rig and start a new hole..... It's bad enough when things go wrong and you know what you're doing, but if you don't know what you're doing mistakes can be very expensive. Another thing, no driller can absolutely guarantee they will find water, even though 99.9% of the time it is there, at least it is in my area but you really don't know what lies beneath you feet until you bore a hole deep into the ground. The underground landscape doesn't always match what's on the surface. We do have some known areas where there is no water, and I stay away from those areas. Equipment cost money to maintain and operate, no one wants to pay for a dry hole, and neither do I.


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## LincTex

Well_Driller said:


> The underground landscape almost never matches what's on the surface.


There - i fixed it for you


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## Country Living

Yep... that guy is pretty sneaky about slipping spam into the forum. The well guys have the experience and the right tools and, for us, it just isn't worth the misery of trying to do something for which we had zero experience.


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## LincTex

Country Living said:


> For us, it just isn't worth the misery of trying to do something for which we had zero experience.


I can't deny someone wanting to buy a used Deep Rock drilling rig and practicing. It's all in knowledge of learning. Hopefully all you lost in the process is some time and maybe some pipe. You can then sell the rig to someone else so they can play with it and ruin some pipe for themselves.

$650 a day for a rented rig is a LOT of coin to be "practicing" with. For that price, I want someone from Drillcat at my house so they are there to fix problems instantly. They are only two hours away....

I also wonder if those trailer rigs can go through rock. Maybe they can... with enough time (and enough power). Start adding more $$$$. I see the new RockBuster R100 has a bigger diesel Kubota engine. I can see where a lack of power can get you into trouble.

This is worth repeating:


Well_Driller said:


> I have my doubts that the average person could go rent a rig and get a successful well on the first try.....no driller can absolutely guarantee they will find water, even though 99.9% of the time it is there.... you really don't know what lies beneath you feet until you bore a hole deep into the ground.


The drillcat manual describes using a modified post-hole digger as a base to build your own drilling rig. So I googled "post hole water well drilling rigs" and came up some neat links:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...ing-questions/35339-drilling-my-own-well.html
"One potential problem that can pollute the water zone that you want to utilize. If your zone is at a depth of 100 feet and you Drilled thru another zone at say 50 feet ...and it is POOR Quality...You have to SEAL IT OFF with cement and pea gravel. Otherwise, the unwanted zone at 50 feet will gravity flow along the outside of the casing down to your good zone at 100 feet. This process is called "Communication"......and it is also the reason that MANY experienced well drillers screwup an otherwise good well that should produce good, potable, drinkable water.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/138184-portable-water-well-drilling-rig.html
"BTW, I already have a hydraulic auger drive unit that I use to drill fence posts, so I have been seriously toying with the idea of building a water well drill rig that will allow me to use the auger drive unit and my tractor hydraulics. Until I find a swivel, however, that is strong/big enough to do the job, and that I can afford, the project is dead in the water (no pun intended)."

http://www.motherearthnews.com/do-it-yourself/how-to-dig-a-well-zmaz70jazgoe.aspx#axzz2PPXvxK8E

http://www.hydra-jett.com/

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?30234-Water-well-drilling-with-a-skid-steer
"I just finished drilling 1 99 foot hole 6.5 inches deep, at 59 feet on the second. I am using a post hole digger attachment with a home made swivel and a rotary bit off ebay(less than 100 bucks). I got lucky with the drill stem, there is a directional borer who had about 150 foot of old drill pipe they did not use anymore and gave it to me. Not so much the power of the machine but the power of the pump used to circulate the flushings. You will need to use bentonite quick gel, you can get from a well driller for about 10 bucks a bag
also depends on what you are drilling through, clay, sand, rock

http://www.wellspringafrica.org/drildesc.htm

http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=36335.0
"Last summer a friend and I successfully drilled a water well using a post hole auger driven off the PTO of his tractor. I mentioned it here and apparently there is some interest in doing the same, so here goes. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics. This will be a series of posts, too much typing for just one."

Cement mixer water well driller:
http://www.lostcreek.net/drillyourownwaterwell.html

Wow.... lots of info. Check the additional links section as well..
http://www.drillyourownwell.com/

Pretty much a "Deep Rock" copy (lawnmower engine):
http://www.dangerouslaboratories.org/drill.html

I would NOT try this method, unless the soil is sandy and the water table very high: http://howtodrillawell.com/


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## Well_Driller

LincTex said:


> I can't deny someone wanting to buy a used Deep Rock drilling rig and practicing. It's all in knowledge of learning. Hopefully all you lost in the process is some time and maybe some pipe. You can then sell the rig to someone else so they can play with it and ruin some pipe for themselves.
> 
> $650 a day for a rented rig is a LOT of coin to be "practicing" with. For that price, I want someone from Drillcat at my house so they are there to fix problems instantly. They are only two hours away....
> 
> I also wonder if those trailer rigs can go through rock. Maybe they can... with enough time (and enough power). Start adding more $$$$. I see the new RockBuster R100 has a bigger diesel Kubota engine. I can see where a lack of power can get you into trouble.


I would say they probably would drill through rock, but it would require a real commercial rotary bit, and some rotary drilling experience- you would not want to push it too hard.... Some of these companies are selling fabricated bits that will not hold up in rock for very long if at all. Here's what I don't like about renting drilling equipment. We have a few places that rent fishing tools, jars etc. I prefer to just buy or make my tooling because if you rent a tool and you loose it, you end up paying for it and at a ridiculously over inflated price, and there's always that thought in the back of your mind, you don't know what your going to get into every time you drill a new well or work on an old one. If you want to learn more about it, stop and talk to the drillers if you see a rig working somewhere, watch what they do. I'm one of few cable tool rigs still working in my area and occasionally when i'm drilling somewhere someone will stop by and have a chat. Sometimes it's someone who worked on the cable tool rigs of the oil fields, and sometimes it's someone who is interested in how it's done, or maybe a potential new customer. I know most people here prefer to have their wells drilled with the cable tool and that's mainly due to so many of the wells that are drilled with the rotaries are screwed up, but that has more to do with the guys who are operating the rigs than the rotary itself. Some of the morons around here have given the rotary a bad name..... I have gone in and fixed many, and have also drilled the second well for customers who's first well was done with a rotary and they said they'll never have another one drilled with a rotary......


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## Country Living

Please educate me... what's the difference between rotary and cable tool?


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## LincTex

Country Living said:


> Please educate me... what's the difference between rotary and cable tool?


A rotary has a bit that turns, like a drill bit of sorts.
A cable rig picks up a heavy bar and drops it to hammer a hole through the earth.


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## farmers

Easyshack, did you get approval from your water district. To drill a water well in Texas, you need permission from the Texas Water Association. And this is filed with the TCEQ in Austin. Now we have 9 major aquifers in Texas, and they need protection. Remember Ozark coming in and pumping out of are aquifer, drying up peoples wells. 
You can have no idea what you are doing. Those big rigs can be very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. 

Please use good judgment before you proceed. You are about to break many laws, and could cost many people there water. Our well cost $15,000 putting in 18 years ago.


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## LincTex

farmers said:


> Easyshack, did you get approval from your water district?


You aren't going to get a reply from him.


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## Country Living

LincTex said:


> You aren't going to get a reply from him.


Ah, wait until he creates yet another logon and somehow weaves in "facts" that the water districts like people to use the whatever thing he's trying to push. Just give him time... as in minutes not days. He is persistent....


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## haley4217

farmers said:


> Easyshack, did you get approval from your water district. To drill a water well in Texas, you need permission from the Texas Water Association. And this is filed with the TCEQ in Austin. Now we have 9 major aquifers in Texas, and they need protection. Remember Ozark coming in and pumping out of are aquifer, drying up peoples wells.
> You can have no idea what you are doing. Those big rigs can be very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing.
> 
> Please use good judgment before you proceed. You are about to break many laws, and could cost many people there water. Our well cost $15,000 putting in 18 years ago.


I agree that much of the promotion of the drilling equipment is certainly spam, but I do want to put a couple of quotes out there for people who live in Texas and who may want to drill a water well to be aware of. Both of these come from the Texas Administrative Code.

First as it relates to liscensing of a drilling machine.

"§76.30. Exemptions.
The following are not required to obtain a license under the Code.
..........
(3) Any person who installs or repairs water well pumps and equipment on his own property, or on property that he has leased or rented, for his own use."

This is consistant with what was explained to me by a water well driller when I questioned him about a large ranch owner who had his own drilling rig. Key words to note thare is "for his own use", you can't drill a well to sell water to your neighbor.

The second as it relates to the permitting of wells by the local groundwater districts who administer the Texas Water Code.

"Sec. 36.002. OWNERSHIP OF GROUNDWATER. 
(a) The legislature recognizes that a landowner owns the groundwater below the surface of the landowner's land as real property.(b) The groundwater ownership and rights described by this section:
(1) entitle the landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, to drill for and produce the groundwater below the surface of real property, subject to Subsection (d), without causing waste or malicious drainage of other property or negligently causing subsidence, but does not entitle a landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, to the right to capture a specific amount of groundwater below the surface of that landowner's land; and
(2) do not affect the existence of common law defenses or other defenses to liability under the rule of capture.(c) Nothing in this code shall be construed as granting the authority to deprive or divest a landowner, including a landowner's lessees, heirs, or assigns, of the groundwater ownership and rights described by this section.(d)"

Very important part of the Code in Texas as it keeps our right to "own" the groundwater under our property and does not deligate it or give it to the groundwater district.

So, you may need and should go to the local groundwater district to get a permit. It is usually quick and easy and mine was at a minimal cost to cover administration. You can then under TAC 76.30 (IMO) and as I have witnessed in practice, drill your own well. (Although I can't imagine why in the long run).

But, in complete support of what has been said earlier in the thread.... Use common sense and protect the ground water. The TAC does permit the Groundwater District to bring enforcement actions including limitations on pumping if you begin to harm your neighbors groundwater or the aquifer. This happend in my district two years ago when an un-regulated well on property adjacent to mine was pumping out water at high volumes and brought the water level in wells surrounding it down by almost a hundred feet.


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## Well_Driller

LincTex said:


> A rotary has a bit that turns, like a drill bit of sorts.
> A cable rig picks up a heavy bar and drops it to hammer a hole through the earth.


I'll add to this- The rotary can drill much faster, they can drill and finish a well in one day here. The cable tool takes anywhere from 3 days to a week to do the same well, but if you're in an area where the wells yield very little water it is much easier to find that water and develop the well with a cable tool rig. It is very easy to miss or mud off a 1 GPM streak of water in fractured rock with a rotary. We have areas where wells will yield +100 GPM, and other areas where you're lucky to get 1 GPM. Those 1GPM wells are little more difficult to develop with a rotary.


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## Country Living

Is the ability to find water "easier" with a cable tool rig because you're fracturing rock to get water flowing through it or have I completely missed the concept? Is it similar to the fracking the rigs are doing?


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## Well_Driller

When a rotary is drilling you have to pump either mud, water or air down the center of the drill under pressure and this comes back up out of the hole carrying the drill cuttings with it. When you get into a little streak of water these cuttings can easily plug it off and you would not even know it was there. It could only be a 6" fracture in the rock and you will drill past it very quickly, say you can get 100 ft in a couple hours. When you're drilling with a cable rig you have to put water in the hole to drill. This allows the cuttings to mix with the water and every 5 to 10 feet or so you have to stop and bail it out with a bailer. This is how you get the cuttings out of the hole. You maybe drilling at a rate of 5ft/hr in the rock. So in stopping to bail it every 5 or 10 feet if you start getting more water out of the hole then you put into it then you found some water, and because the cable tool isn't forcing mud or air down into the hole under pressure like the rotary does it doesn't plug off that little fracture where there is that little bit of water. So with the cable rig your drill string is on a cable and you can easily go in and out of the hole in a just a few minutes so you can run the bailer down the hole. With a rotary once you start drilling, you don't bring the drill string back out of the hole until you're done, and because a rotary uses drill pipe instead of cable, every section that you added while drilling has to be pulled up, unscrewed and put away, so that can take an hour or so just to get the tools back out of the hole. Some rotaries have the sandline so they can use a bailer, but you just can't stop and pull the drilling tools out of the hole as it's not practical. Some rotary guys do use a bailer to develop the well once they are done drilling.


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## Country Living

Thanks - good explanation.


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## jimbo

I actually bought some 2 of the Drillcat books, the plans and troubleshooting guide, they did help me. The books were not barns and noble hard backs, but I just needed *real knowledge* , to drill a real well,so some cheap drill rig plans and troubleshooting guide, they worked for me. I Don't fault or run down info because the cover was homemade or book was short, The drill cat site is 85% usful information , they answered all my questions ,even before I bought books , even told me to check out pawn shops for cheap auger drill power head. No one else had a free info site except a sand point well sites, and I didn't think I could pound a sand point down through that much clay.

Most drillers don't like anyone doing DIY drilling people or sites, don't blame them. I wish I had the painint market cornered, but now with everyone out of work, everyone is a painter now. Here in texas you can drill for 40 years, drill oil wells 3 miles deep, but state of texas will not give you a drilling licsence unless another driller signs for you first. I owned my own land, so no license was needed. The oil field work I did when I was young did help some.

The plans I used were ( like you said a Deeprock toy type rig.) But I only had to go 70ft, all sand, clay and thin layer of soft rock, then hit water, about 15 gpm.
1st well we could not get casing down, but I read up on things better, then used bentonite instead of clear water on 2nd well and everything worked like a champ. Casing went down, we gravel packed it 40ft. the 1st and 2nd well were a challenge, but Finish now. May try drilling my geothermal loop holes. But will 1st need to add some upgrades to my drill when I get more money. Or may just trade it for a good fishing flat bottom boat.

I did look at rock duster, but they were over priced, for what they had. I didn't have $47,000 to blow, plus more money if I wanted drill pipe and bits. 
Let me know if anyone has a good fishing flat bottom, wide enough for a fat boy.


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## texprep

why are the well drilling contractors and government agencys infecting this thread with rules, and regs trying to *scare people out of there water rights*, that only protect there gravy jobs . 
If I am prepping my family, why would I *trust the government to keep me safe*, and my water safe. I guess they will help other people be safe too and take away our guns, to help the children.

All these laws for water drilling, but in texas to keep us safe , But tattoo crack head oil field hands can drill 4 miles deep through 100S of water aquifer's, WITHOUT DRILLING LICENSE in texas and be legal. (The golden rule, the state gets big oil money from oil drilling).

Check it out, don't take my word for it. No drilling license is required to drill a oil well, But just a 35ft water well does?/??. 
I once had a well drilling contractor drill for me, he did a good job on the well and I paid him, it was 2 years ago. But later he turned me in for a old abandon well, ( only after I paid him).
I had to pay him to fill in a 35ft well ( a job I could do for free). He just poured in a few sags of hole plug bentonite pellets and I got bill for 2500.00 bucks. But I did get letter from state saying I was now in compliance now. 
He said, to keep his well license ( license to steel, only granted by the state) , he is by law under oath to turn in any and all abandon wells to the state.
This is a great site, but why are government drones allowed to scare people into giving up water rights on ther own land. I never voted to give my water rights away. Many wells old wells are grandfathered wells. ( which means they were drilled before the government made laws to steal water rights away. 
If people are worried about water rights being protected, get on* MEXICO, they have been transgressing texas water & river rights *and stealing water even after treaty was signed for 90 years. No special task force to stop this. Only stop americans with a job, trying to make it and survive. 
IF I own land, if I buy land, if I pay taxes on land. Why would I ask for permission to get a drink of water off my own land.
How long is it until we are like Colorado, where it is a crime to catch rain water, even small amounts.


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## Country Living

Let me make sure I understand. You had to have a permit to drill a well (it's not a "license"). You had to fill in a (dangerous) abandoned well and were more unhappy because it was reported than having it on your property and some innocent person getting hurt. 

You feel the "government drones (are) allowed to scare people into giving up water rights on ther (sic) own land" when the state of Texas voted all landowners have a vested and proportional right to the water below their surface (surface water has always belonged to either state or federal agencies). 

You're unhappy because Mexico has a contract for river water with the U.S. and all oil field hands are crack heads with tattoos. 

All of this because you had to have a permit to show you will safely drill a well that will not contaminate the underground water.


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## Well_Driller

You are right that the gov has too much interference in the water well industry I totally agree with that and I don't like it. It basically comes down to money. They are looking for anything to make money from. I don't agree with all the regulation either, but I have to follow them if I want to continue drilling. It's some of these ridiculous regulations that drives up the cost of the well and alot of them make no sense at all. I try to help where I can and I don't want to scare someone into not taking on such projects and some of it can be pretty involved but if you're determined enough and have the resources to pull it off then great. I know a lot of drillers will "overlook" the abandoned wells because who's going to know unless you have a nosy neighbor who turns it in. I also think the intent when someone posts parts of these rules is to make people aware that they should probably keep a low key on the project if they're going to evade permits and such. My thoughts are if you can get away with it without paying a whole lot of money for a piece of paper for nothing then do it. Just please be aware of what may happen if you get caught so that you may be more careful not to get caught..... Even if you have a new well drilled, who's to say you don't have plans for the old one?? Just tell them you're going to use it for irrigation or something. It's not abandoned....


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## cowboyhermit

Well_Driller, what a great post. I feel we really have to fight back against permits, regulation, and just the general bureaucratic intrusion into our loves. That being said, I am VERY concerned about our groundwater and I see something like drilling a well as a big responsibility.


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## Well_Driller

Some regulation is good. I don't have a problem with it until it gets to the point where it's impractical or becomes a money making scheme for the gov. like what it has become now and pretty much happens to everything the gov gets their hand in. Permits use to be I think $10 here, and the rules pertaining to construction were common sense and adequately protected the groundwater. Now permit costs are over $370+ in some places and some of the construction regulations have become more of an unnecessary requirement that serves to add more cost and benefit other industries than it does good to protect the groundwater. Any reputable driller knows more about protecting those aquifers during construction and completion then the state people do. Some of these people making up these regulations have never even worked on a drilling rig and they are making up these rules for something that they really have no clue about. Now I think most people if they really want to take on such a project as drilling a well, they want a good clean uncontaminated source of water because they know it is an important part of being able to survive and they are smart enough to do their research and ask questions to find out what they are getting into and what they need to do to protect that water source once they find it. Even if you have a well driller drill your well you still need to educate yourself about it. There are those in the industry that shouldn't be and they can do just as much harm as someone that does it themselves. If someone wants to drill their own well they will, help or no help, but by helping them through the process they will be more likely to have a safe source of water and protect that water as well.


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## cowboyhermit

That's another problem with regulations, they actually obscure personal responsibility, as long as it is to code that is all that matters. The regulations are one size fits all. For instance they banned well pits around here a while back, I understand why (they were often poorly designed or maintained) but there are certain circumstances that would be much better served by a properly designed pit. Instead of holding people accountable for possible contamination etc they just say no, there will be no exceptions.


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## Well_Driller

Well pits are banned here too for a house, but funny thing about that is it is still allowed if the well is strictly irrigation or agricultural use...


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## cowboyhermit

That makes sense, no way to contaminate groundwater in those circumstances
I would not recommend a pit if other options are viable, the new pitless adapters are decent, otherwise for watering cows or whatever plain old hose coming out of the well works fine no need for pressure system. Have seen a few circumstances though where it made a lot more sense, btw we have to bury our water lines about 8' here


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## RockBuster_Intl

LincTex said:


> Are you the same guy as this (drilleditmyself, Drillingfab, Rockbuster) ?
> 
> http://forums.homestead.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=2208&KW=drilleditmyself
> _
> "It's kinda sad, really, because if the plans are for real and will help build a good rig on the cheap, the guy could have simply come here and said "Hey, folks, my name is __________ and I have some drilling rig plans that might be of use to you..." And, if he really has the 20 acres that were mentioned in some of the other posts, and if he really has driven/drilled three wells on that property and is knowledgeable about welding and is a DIY'er, he probably would fit right in here...
> 
> Just goes to show that, at the end of the day, you've GOT to be honest with people... "_


I just came across this on a google search. My name is Lee Wood from RockBuster International. I just want to say we are not affiliated with drillcat.com. We purchased the rights to build (and redesign) the rockbuster rigs three years ago. Our rigs are more for the commercial side of things than DIY. Thank you.


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## LincTex

Yeah, I think most people realize that. I am sorry you have to work overtime to clear your name. That drillcat/easyshack dude isn't making your life easy.


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## ruffneck

*Well,*

When I was a kid I read about the backyard drilling rigs in Popular Mechanics:
http://cdn.preparedsociety.com/images/1/7/3/9/4/ccf04122009_00008-1018.jpg
I would dream of purchasing bare land, developing it and drilling my own well. 
Now, I have the land and need to put my well in.

It was obvious to me after reviewing the well logs in the area, that a backyard drilling rig was not going to cut it. 500 feet through what they call soft medium and hard basalt, definitely a challenge.

Well, in 2005 I started looking at cable drilling rigs. There were listings in The Capital Press from time to time. After looking at a couple of rigs that were far from where I wanted to be, I came across the one I would purchase five miles south of my property. $1,000 with a free tow to my property. So, October of 2005 was the start of a adventure I new nothing about. http://cdn.preparedsociety.com/images/1/7/3/9/4/h20-dawg-010-1021.jpg

Finding and fabricating parts for this machine has been the biggest challenge of all. Early on, I stopped by a fab shop to get an estimate on a repair of just one small part on the rig and they said it would be $1,250 After finding a better shop I got that part fixed for $200. I stayed with that shop for the duration of the rebuild. :laugh:

Right now I think I'm about ready to get to drilling. I will get my people to inspect my work before I go at it, but want to have everything ready so I can hopefully start to drill the day they come out. Heck, I'd love for the old timers to drill the well for me and just watch:laugh:

My drilling plan is to start with the 13 inch chisel starter bit and drill, hopefully just 20 feet to a solid formation. There are some wells staying that shallow for the surface seal. I have seen some going 40 and 60 feet too.

Right now I am trying to learn how I'm going to do my surface seal. I know the 13 inch bit will give me the right diameter hole to seal with a 8 inch casing. I would like to use a pvc surface seal but think metal casing my be better.

What I have pictured is drilling down to the solid formation, without using any casing and hoping I can maintain the hole without it collapsing on me. I think I can use benenite to help support the walls. Then I'd place the casing and seal it. Still trying to figure that out too :laugh: It needs to be sealed from the bottom up and I don't want to use pumps to do it.

After the surface seal is set I'll change bits out to this beautiful 6 inch new Trident bit:
http://cdn.preparedsociety.com/images/1/7/3/9/4/picture-266-1022.jpg
And drill down to a total depth of 100 feet through consolidated materiel and line the well with PVC :laugh::laugh:
The water dowser said there are two veins crossing at 70 and 90 feet. I hope he's right, but I have my doubts.

Any input on my venture is welcome. I came across this site while researching how to continue. I always learn better by talking to people that have been there and done that, than reading documents.

This is a link of a post I made in the water storage section of the forums. 
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f20/water-life-22363/

Still trying to figure out the picture thing here, hope it works!

Water is Life!!!
http://cdn.preparedsociety.com/images/1/7/3/9/4/h20-dawg-145-1019.jpg
Stay Safe


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## Well_Driller

Well, I can tell you here in OH they lay out the details on how they want us to set and seal PVC. We do use bentonite and if the hole is dry it can be poured in around the casing. We use both steel or PVC and how I determine which to use, is first I pretty much know the area, but once I start drilling and if I can't keep the hole open then i'll use steel casing. If the hole will remain open then I can use the PVC. Very simple. If you're going to finish the well with a 6" bit then you might as well save some money and run 6" PVC, or finish the well with an 8" bit, but if you don't have an 8" bit then going 6" PVC would be cheaper and you won't have to drill a 13" hole either. When using a chisel bit keep it dressed out to size, keep the end feathered out so it tapers out at the end. Don't let it wear flat, that can cause it to stick in some formations. Also, when using a button bit, 6" PVC well casing is a little under sized, we have to use a 5-7/8" button bit when we want to go down through 6" PVC. As far as chisel bits, they can be dressed to the size you need. The proper way to dress them is to put the end in a forge and hammer them out with a sledge hammer then temper them, and this is nearly a lost art now, it takes a few times to get good at it... A lot of guys are just building them back up with weld but you can only get by with that for so long. I do it occasionally but try not to over do it....


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## ruffneck

Thank so much Well_Driller, I have found my notes on the water well requirements for my state. I knew I had seen something about it in my last eight years of studying. I can use plastic liner and casing if it conforms to National Sanitation Foundation Standard 14-84. Liner pipe must withstand breakage or collapse when pumped and meet ASTM potable water standards. I can use either bell type, threaded joint or coupling hubs.

The surface seal must be installed in an four inch oversized hole without driving. When placing the bentonite in the annular space, you just pour it dry?
Sounds much easier than some of the other methods I've read about.

My button bit is 6 inches, will I be able to find a plastic casing that will work with that size? Or should I just keep drilling until I wear it down 1/8 of an inch:laugh:

I am hoping you may help me identify the type of drilling rig I have. I haven't herd or seen a Star Drilling Machine anywhere in my searches, I've seen Speedstar though. Is that what my rig is. It has this plate on the rig with a serial number.

I'd like to know more of the history of this fine machine. It has drilled a lot of holes in its' day and knowing it was used in my area gives me hope that I'll succeed in this adventure. I sure would like to learn the art of dressing my own bit. That's just another good reason to be doing this on my own, preserving skills that were used years ago. Now I'll need to come up with a forge

Thanks again and stay safe!


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## Well_Driller

All the 6" PVC I use is usually SDR-21, and it has to be well casing as indicated on the markings of the pipe. I've never had any that a full 6" button bit will go into. You will not wear the size down on a button bit. It will hold gauge until all or most of the buttons fall out, and you will probably get 2,000ft of drilling out of it before that happens. We are allowed to dry pour bentonite grout as long as the hole has 2" of space between the coupling and bore hole wall, and I think they had a depth limitation on that but we are usually less than that and i'd have to look it up again... I've been running the 6" bit, so when I'm going to put 6" PVC in I drill the large hole, then when I get down to where the casing will stop I switch to the 6" bit finish the drilling and put the casing in last when i'm done drilling.


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## ruffneck

OK, that makes good sense. I will plan on starting with the 13 inch bit and seal it. I'll continue to look and see if dry pouring is approved, hopefully it is.
I've attached two well reports of my closest wells. The 480 foot well was the one drilled this last summer using the rotary method. The other one was drilled with the cable method and they went 170ish. 
I plan on heading out to the rig tomorrow and continue some work on it. There are these small details that keep coming up. I need to find a cable saver, I think. I don't know how else I'd get the drill string vertical without kinking the cable. Here comes the nasty weather, I may need to dump my water soon, it's going to start getting cold.
Thanks again Well_Driller, I appreciate any information you can provide.

Ohio? My H20 Dawg is from Akron Ohio


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## LincTex

ruffneck said:


> I need to find a cable saver, I think. I don't know how else I'd get the drill string vertical without kinking the cable.


I am not familiar with this,

what is occurring that is causing a problem?


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## ruffneck

The Trident company is calling it a wire line saver. It slips over the end of the rope socket and gives the cable a gentle curve so it can pick up the drilling string from a horizontal position without putting to sharp of a bend to the cable and kinking it. That's the way they explain it in the catalog. I'll look for a picture.


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## LincTex

How hard would it be to pull the top of the stem vertical with a smaller cable (3/16 - 1/4) and a 12 volt winch, then attach it to the socket once its already up?


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## ruffneck

I think using the tool would be the ideal way. I'll need to tighten the joints horizontal. The wrenches I'll be using a 110 pounds a piece. Hate to be wrestling those 25 feet in the air. I would think this tool would be standard issue for any cable rig.
The list of tools I need to assemble keeps growing: casing clamps, wrench tightners, maybe shims for the wrenches, some sort of chute to dump the mud into and other stuff I don't know about yet.
I am one foot deep though


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## LincTex

ruffneck said:


> It gives the cable a gentle curve so it can pick up the drilling string from a horizontal position without putting to sharp of a bend to the cable and kinking it.


You need something kind of like an over-sized conduit bender looking thing! You could make one from an old truck or tractor rim if you are handy with a welder.


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## Well_Driller

ruffneck said:


> OK, that makes good sense. I will plan on starting with the 13 inch bit and seal it. I'll continue to look and see if dry pouring is approved, hopefully it is.
> I've attached two well reports of my closest wells. The 480 foot well was the one drilled this last summer using the rotary method. The other one was drilled with the cable method and they went 170ish.
> I plan on heading out to the rig tomorrow and continue some work on it. There are these small details that keep coming up. I need to find a cable saver, I think. I don't know how else I'd get the drill string vertical without kinking the cable. Here comes the nasty weather, I may need to dump my water soon, it's going to start getting cold.
> Thanks again Well_Driller, I appreciate any information you can provide.
> 
> Ohio? My H20 Dawg is from Akron Ohio


I
Use the winch line to pick up your drill stem. Do not kink the drill line. Also, you want only one layer of cable on the drill line spool while drilling.


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## Well_Driller

Both of those well logs indicate the casing stops short in the clay. On the deep well, they indicate the casing goes down to 38ft yet the clay goes to 40ft. That leaves 2ft of exposed clay. You need to set the casing through the clay and into bedrock. You really don't want an open hole in clay, especially if the water level comes up to that point.


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## ruffneck

"Both of those well logs indicate the casing stops short in the clay. On the deep well, they indicate the casing goes down to 38ft yet the clay goes to 40ft. That leaves 2ft of exposed clay. You need to set the casing through the clay and into bedrock. You really don't want an open hole in clay, especially if the water level comes up to that point."

Wow, I never noticed that in the reports. It surprises me they get away with it. I'd sure hate for my neighbors' wells to be contaminating mine. At least I'll know my well will be sealed appropriately. 

Sounds like I'm set up with the right bits if I drill to my consolidated formation with the 13 inch bit, set my surface seal and complete the well with the six inch bit then line that. Barring any unforeseen formations of course. :laugh:

"Also, you want only one layer of cable on the drill line spool while drilling."

I have herd that before, When I installed my new cable I kept it all on the one side. Now it has me wondering what the trick is to feed it over to the working side is. :scratch

Not the most successful trip to the rig last time. I was telescoping the mast and 
something seems to have it jammed up. I'm going to lower it again and take a look. I put a newer mast on it that 40 feet, the old one was 35. I was thinking of just using the guy wires that go to the tip, but since I'm lowering it I may go ahead and add the braces too. I'm so anxious to start drilling, but I know I have to take every step slow and be methodical. Two steps forward and one step back.

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain these things. I know my screen name says ruffneck, but I'm a ways from that. In hindsight, I should have used "The Worm" as my screen name. 

I can't think of a better skill to have than being able to provide clean drinking water if the SHTF! Living in the ring of fire like I do, I put that risk high on my radar.


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## Well_Driller

It's not so much of a contamination problem, we're only reqired to have a minimum of 25ft of casing. As long as it's sealed. The problem is the clay can fall apart or cave. A lot of guys put in liners to get away with that. I don't put in liners unless there is a good reason to. They can be a pain to get out if the well ever needs to be cleaned or drilled deeper. You can't have the cable wound over top of itself while drilling. It wears it out, can get pulled down under the layers and kink it. Not good. There are usually 2 slots in the divider on the spool where the cable comes through to the other side. We call the side where the bulk of the cable is spooled the auxilary side, the other the drill side. On my rig, speedstar the cable comes in between the divider runs half way around and out the other slot. On a Bucyrus Erie there's just the two slots and you bring the cable directly over through the slot. Not sure how yours is setup, look to see if there's a slot in the middle of the divider that goes around the outer edge. When you run the cable out on the drill side, then you manually pull more cable off then spool it back up on the drill side and keep drilling. The sheave above the drill spool should have a way of moving it manually over the drill spool with a hand wheel, you use that to get the cable to go where you want it. When you trip out of the hole make sure the cable spools nice and neat. Don't let it run over top and cross itself, this can cause kinks also.


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## ruffneck

Thanks again Well_Driller, I appreciate all the pearls of wisdom you're providing.
The pace of progress has been the same for me on this project, two steps foreword and one back. I was telescoping the mast out for the first time and it stopped two feet shot of being fully extended. I finally got it to retract the other day. It sounded like something metal may have been rubbing when I did that. I'm going to lower it completely and inspect my halyard cable to make sure that's OK.
The rig doesn't have a way to move the cable to the working side of the spool. There was a spacer on the walking beam sheave. That's the third picture, it was on the shaft and would have limited the travel of the sheave to the working side. The old cable had quit a bit on the working end.
I watched a video of a guy that was fishing out some tools in his well. It's a series titled "The Well from Hell". The guy was using a high-lift jack and chain to tighten his joints. How can you tell when it's tightened enough?
Going with the 20 foot surface seal and putting a liner in sound like it would be the easiest way for me to do it. I don't have a welder so being able to avoid welding casing would be ideal for my circumstances. I will borrow a welder if I have to, it's just a hassle because I'm 155 miles from my home base.


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## LincTex

ruffneck said:


> I will borrow a welder if I have to, it's just a hassle because I'm 155 miles from my home base.


You already have the engines on the rig, just add the modified alternator:

http://www.preparedsociety.com/foru...ffer-suggestions-23601/index3.html#post322373


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## InWyo

Not sure regs in Texas on wells and development (cleaning and blowing) of the well, but here in Wyoming the cost of drilling shallow wells is running $20 to $25 a foot. That is a competent and licensed well driller with a rotary and cased and sealed (gravel pack, bentonite and cement seal) with 5 inch PVC and developed. I drilled 2 wells last year for that price per foot, one 260 feet and one 600 feet. Another $1,000 max or so for pump and pipe for each well. For a well 150 feet, my cost drilled, pump, wire and pipe installed and ready to pump water out the top would run right at $3,500. There is no way I would try doing it myself. Aside from the work of drilling one yourself, by the time you make the mistakes, lose tools and chop a few fingers off, I think the best bet on a well over 30 feet deep is a licensed driller. I do all my own work running pumps into the well and connection work. Just that in itself is dangerous enough to warrant knowing what you are doing.


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## ruffneck

It's about the journey for me. I'm not in any huge hurry and to have a machine that can pound a hole in the ground and have the skills to operate it could very well mean survival. We are all one ground shake from loosing our wells.


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## Tirediron

ruffneck said:


> It's about the journey for me. I'm not in any huge hurry and to have a machine that can pound a hole in the ground and have the skills to operate it could very well mean survival. We are all one ground shake from loosing our wells.


This is the answer I would expect from a true "prepper" :2thumb:


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## ruffneck

Using the drill rig to put in a power pole in the middle of my rock field fore the drop will be another use for the rig. I can run my own power so I may need to put in more poles. Holes for a pole building require a 24 inch diameter by 4 1/4deep hole, seems this rig may be the ticket if I run into rocks...


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## Tedlewis

I have a solar set up for whole house. 2400 watt. 24 volt inverter. Solar cells and charge controler. No batteries. Inverter has it's own battery charger. Will work for a tie in system or as we used it, stand alone. Unit works in subzero temps. Not many of new ones do. I need a water well. Will trade for the help in getting well in. Money, like ALL OF US, is tight! Any interested? E-mail, [email protected]. Montana, Butte area.


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## LincTex

Tedlewis said:


> I need a water well. Will trade for the help in getting well in. Money, like ALL OF US, is tight! Any interested? . Montana, Butte area.


Water wells in Montana can get REALLY expensive, REALLY fast! (I know of some in the Flathead valley near 1000 feet deep!)

You might find it is cheaper to haul water with an old truck. Ask around your neighbors to find out how much their well cost, and how deep it is.


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## KittyCat

$12000 is a reasonable price. Get a detailed break down of the costs of his service. The breakdown should include test hole, final bore, quality and thickness of pipe, dowser service, relocation fee for dry hole, e-log and sanitary seal. If the company will not give you an itemized accounting, go find someone else. Do you really want to be at the well site 24/7 for twenty days if you rent that rig? Do you expect to do all of the above by yourself or with help in twenty days, with no experience is drilling a well?


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## oldasrocks

I think we should all borrow this rig to drill a few graves. We might need to plant a few people when SHTF one way or another. Just dig a few holes 100 ft deep, fill them 1/2 way with bodies and backfill. Buried that deep no one would ever find them. :2thumb:


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## ruffneck

*Seeing progress with my cable drilling rig*

So I finally got the mast pinned and bolted at 40 feet. No more ladder work, I hope:laugh:
Guy wires are secured:




And I'm ready to go over everything one last time. Not to sure how to work my cable over to the working side yet, there isn't a way to do it other than manually as far as I can tell. There isn't a wheel to do it like I've seen on other rigs.

I did track down a wire line saver, it was the last one they had at the RAMP company in Ohio. Dan at Western Well and Supply found it for me, he has been great help with all my tooling needs and welcomes questions I have had.


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## camogirl

So I've been reading through this and I'm in a similar situation. I recently bought land that has nothing but electricity on it. I honestly don't mind shipping water in the holding tank on the back of my truck but I would like to figure out how to run water from one of the three springs on my property. When we first arrived here I just purified my own creek water as it is spring fed. Any advise.


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## cowboyhermit

[No message]


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## InWyo

camogirl said:


> So I've been reading through this and I'm in a similar situation. I recently bought land that has nothing but electricity on it. I honestly don't mind shipping water in the holding tank on the back of my truck but I would like to figure out how to run water from one of the three springs on my property. When we first arrived here I just purified my own creek water as it is spring fed. Any advise.


Can be done. If the springs are up hill from you, all you need to do is build a spring box and then pipe the water away. Biggest issue is cost of installing a pipeline (I have seen black poly pipe laid on top of the ground in the Rocky Mountains that works even far below freezing as long as water is never shut off and has decent flow). Depends a little on amount of drop from spring to your use point but you might encounter air lock problems on the pipeline and would have to install bleed valves (easy enough to figure this out). You can roughly figure one pound of pressure build up for every two feet of drop in elevation (60 to 70 feet in drop from spring box to use point would give around 30 pounds of pipeline pressure at use point).

If your use point is level or uphill, your best bet would probably be a spring box with electric (or solar) water pump and pipeline. With a water pump, you would want a shut off switch on your pump so that it would not run dry. Also in cold climate, everything should also be below frost level.

Water piping is pretty simple, just common sense on doing it and understanding a little about flow, distance run, air lock issues and pressure. The biggest mistake people make that I have seen is using too small of a pipe for their pipeline that causes too much friction. If gravity flowing away from spring box use no less than 1 1/4 pipe. As a small boy, we had a gravity fed system using 3/4 inch pipe with about a 40 foot drop and a distance of 800 feet. Gave us about 20 pounds of pressure but if it ever air locked, it was a bear cat to get running again.

Good luck with your project if you decide to take it on.


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## camogirl

Thank you. But unfortunately I am on the highest point on the land. I'm wondering now if this was a mistake. But it was for a tactical advantage, just in case. I am on a good sized hill . The closest spring (there are several) is about 25 to 30 ft down the hill. My dad suggested what he called hydrolicking I'm not sure if that's the real name. He likes to make up his own words. He said to use a larger pipe,then use smaller and smaller pipe as you go now I haven't researched this at all. It does seem logical but I'm not sure if the pressure would build enough to travel up hill.


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## Tirediron

if the close spring is good water, a sump pump should be able to lift the water
up to a cistern in your house, then you could use a small jet pump if you wanted a pressure system.


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## cowboyhermit

Lol, not sure what happened to my other post about springs?



camogirl said:


> Thank you. But unfortunately I am on the highest point on the land. I'm wondering now if this was a mistake. But it was for a tactical advantage, just in case. I am on a good sized hill . The closest spring (there are several) is about 25 to 30 ft down the hill. My dad suggested what he called hydrolicking I'm not sure if that's the real name. He likes to make up his own words. He said to use a larger pipe,then use smaller and smaller pipe as you go now I haven't researched this at all. It does seem logical but I'm not sure if the pressure would build enough to travel up hill.


It is counter-intuitive, but the diameter of a pipe or tank (column) has no bearing on the static pressure. Ie; a cylindrical water tower 100ft high will have no more psi at the bottom than a garden hose of the same height. No combinations of pipe sizes will change that.

The only way to use gravity to pump water uphill is with a ram pump.

ETA; he probably meant hydraulic(ing) and maybe he was talking about some sort of ram pump?


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## camogirl

I have several sump pumps but running it would be a challenge since electricity well let's just say I'm working on that. Lol. But that is actually a good idea I thought about that once I get my electricity straight.


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## camogirl

The creek in this pic which I am trying to upload is spring fed by several springs. We have been here only a short time. We have drank water from it when we first arrived here. That may be what he was talking about I swear he talks in code sometimes. I was thinking about using the creek but I'm concerned as it is opened to outside contamination


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## InWyo

A sump pump or shallow well pump would be your fastest way to move water but you have a cost of running and repairs. A ram pump is the way to go I think. Have never used or seen one but my understanding is as water is discharged to a point down hill, a small amount is diverted and forced up hill. Once installed and working, it is practically free to run. I think would work great if you have enough drop to make it work. Wouldn't produce a lot of flow but over a 24 hour span would add up. Better than packing. I would love to have the ability to run a ram pump but all of my water is deep well. There is a lot of info on the web about ram pumps and if someone in your area is in the water well or development business, they could lend their ideas to you.

As for contamination questions, take a sample and have it tested. You county agriculture office can help you with water samples. The spring, if coming out of the hill side, should be OK.

Build a spring box, pack around it with good clean sand or gravel and then into your ram system or install your pump. Good luck.


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## camogirl

ive built my ram pump already picture above that the spring I wanted to show a video but couldn't figure out how to upload it







so now I just need a spring Box which I talked about in another thread


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