# Medical Bag Question



## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

I have a backpack that is designated as my medical bag. In it I have :

Band-aids of all sizes and shapes
Gauze Pads of assorted shapes and sizes
Tapes
Ace Bandage 2 sizes
Maxi pads,Tampons
Wound seal powder and spray
Alcohol
Peroxide
Iodine scrub
Antiseptic
Calamine lotion
Meat tenderizer
Antibiotic cream and pills
Pain meds ( morphine, Oxycodone, Asperin, Hydrocodon)
Rubs ( Neosporin, Capscain, anti-itch, moisturizer, sunblock, Vaseline)
Surgical instruments( scissors, scalpels, sutures,Tweezers,needles and floss threads, plastic drop cloth)
Dentistry Tools
Tourniquets
Large handkerchiefs and Paracord
Visine and lubricating drops
Allergy pills, and Zantac 
Hand sanitizer 
soap and Saline Solution 
alcohol pads
small flashlight, metal cup, fire starter, lighters
Moleskin
Imodium
Rubber gloves, tweezers, scissors,safety pins, and rubber bands
Lifestraws and Water Purification Tablets
Q-tips, Emergency blankets, 
Knife, sharpening stone
Thermometer
Books( Special Operations Forces Medical Handbook and Where There Is No Doctor)
Garbage Bags and Ziploc bags
Mirror
There are a some other things that I can't think of at this time. 
All this is in my main medical bag and then I have a small 1st aid pack in each of our BOBs. 

Am I missing anything?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Do you know how to use all of that and when it should be used? Proper training with them? Lots of practical practice with the tools and equipment? The worst thing you can have in any medical kit are items such as surgical tools and sutures and not know hot to use them correctly and making an injury worse.


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

Grimm said:


> Do you know how to use all of that and when it should be used? Proper training with them? Lots of practical practice with the tools and equipment? The worst thing you can have in any medical kit are items such as surgical tools and sutures and not know hot to use them correctly and making an injury worse.


 I have a RN in my group that does know how to use them, but thanks for answering.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Sterile normal saline for cleaning wounds or washing out eyes. Some 60ML syringes to wash out wounds with. Benedryl. Pedialyte. Hydrocortisone ointment. Albuterol inhaler. Prednisone. Icing in a tube. Towel. A few chucks. Paper tape & silk tape, love them. They make neosporin with pain relief now in a keychain size sprayer, seems to work wonders on Cam's skinned knees. Pain killer & antibiotic all in a spray the size of a Bic lighter, what's not to love?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

If there are children under 12 in the group consider the kids versions of most if not all the medications. Also some fun kid print bandaids. They can help calm a child. They work for Roo.


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

What is the icing in a tube for please?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

BP cuff
stethoscope
paramedic scissors
kerlex
battle dressing or feminine napkin
4X4's
Celox or Quik-Klot
nasal airways
oral airways
Ambu bag or CPR barrier of some type
flashlight
knife
prescription meds for each member of the family
cheat sheet for locating items
multiple smaller bags to put similar type items in for easier location
pen and small notebook

Ask your RN what she wants to add.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

tunnelvision said:


> What is the icing in a tube for please?


Hypoglycemia


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

tsrwivey said:


> Hypoglycemia


ok I have hard candy for the children but I think that will work for that too.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

tunnelvision said:


> ok I have hard candy for the children but I think that will work for that too.


That is fine if the person is conscious but if the person is unconscious then you will cause them to choke. The icing can be placed under their tongue for rapid assimilation. You don't want to fill their mouth just a squirt under their tongue. 
The frosting is cheap, lasts a long time, and is available. You could use karo, honey, or something similar but that would take quite a bit more space and would be harder to dispense.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

tunnelvision said:


> What is the icing in a tube for please?


To boost low blood sugar.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Caribou said:


> BP cuff
> stethoscope
> paramedic scissors
> kerlex
> ...


Color coding the bags and large waterproof labels will make this an easier task.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

tunnelvision said:


> Pain meds ( morphine, Oxycodone, Asperin, Hydrocodon)


Anyone else disagree with this? You said you had a rn in the group that knew how to use everything so I assume you have no training.

There is a reason 3 of those 4 are not only rx only but controlled by the dea.

Do you have the antidote for them? Can you list reasons not to give someone aspirin? Can you list why you would and the dose? Not aches and pains mind you.

Not to be a hard as s. Ok maybe some, but if you are carrying the bag for a group, you are responsible for it. You need to know when and how to use it or hand it off to someone who does.

Also verify the rn knows how to use the stuff as well. I have worked and directed some phenomenal rns that could outthink most docs. And I have dealt with the ones that couldn't start an iv without reading a flip chart. Same as any job. People can know it or they can just pass the tests.


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

Jim1590 said:


> Anyone else disagree with this? You said you had a rn in the group that knew how to use everything so I assume you have no training.
> 
> There is a reason 3 of those 4 are not only rx only but controlled by the dea.
> 
> ...


I won't be carrying it for the group my RN friend will be carrying it. She is a surgical nurse and has worked in other areas of the field. I have every confidence she knows her stuff. I am not offended by your questions. I think questions are good and would have given me pause if not for having this covered already. Course even in the best laid plans stuff happens.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

What's the meat tenderizer for?


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

camo2460 said:


> What's the meat tenderizer for?


For insect stings. You make a paste out of it and put it on your sting. It takes the pain and swelling out.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

tunnelvision said:


> For insect stings. You make a paste out of it and put it on your sting. It takes the pain and swelling out.


Of course, I knew that LOL. But wouldn't a pack of "Sting Ease" work just as well if not better?


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

LOL I usually have meat tenderizer on hand and it's a quick fix.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

You can also use the meat tenderizer on steak. 

That and it is cheaper.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

I was always under the impression that having the gear and not knowing how to use it was better than not having it at all. Hopefully someone around will know how to use it. 
Here is the Tc3 bag that is used by soldiers in the field for major trauma and what is in it:

TC3 combat lifesaving bag with gear

The patented TC3®-V2/CLS (or MES for supplied bags) are Combat Casulaty Care Bag version 2 and they were specifically designed by Recon Mountaineer®, LLC Products for the U.S. Army designated Army Combat Lifesavers. It was designed as a First Responder system that ensures the right amount and type of equipment is carried and utilized.

Features and Specifications:

"Sling' type strap/carry system that enables it to be worn around the waist or over the shoulder. Can be configured to right or left handed medics. Extra wide strap makes the pack very comfortable and secure to wear. Can easily be shifted or worn to front position enabling contents to be accessed with ease and speed. The four connecting points/straps enable custom configuration and positioning including, front, back like a fanny pack or right or left sling position as described above. (This is the strap that is missing on the packs listed under 'no sling strap but full of contents' that you may select as an option in your shopping cart.)
Outside zipper, snap with velcro fold out pocket where scissors are often stored for easy access
Four interior locations allow for careful configuration and ease of access to necessary emergency first responder supplies
Two exterior locations

Limited Supply of Full Bags includes the following contents:

* Blanket Survival Blizzard Pack Reflexcell Military Green Qty = 1 NSN# 6532-01-524-6932
Splint Universal Alum 36" O/A LG 4.25W Gray & Olive Drab Reuse Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-494-1951
Adhesive Tape Surgical Porous Woven 3" x 10 Yards Qty = .25 or 1 roll NSN# 6510-00-926-8884
Bandage Muslin Compressed Olive Drab 37 x 37 x 52" Traing. W/Sfty Pins Qty = 3 NSN#6510-00-201-1755
* Blanket Heating Disposable 90 x 90 cm Water Repellent 8S Qty = 1 NSN#6532-01-525-4062
Leash Shears Trauma Black High Break Strength Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-540-7226
Tourniquet Combat Application One-Handed Qty = 2 NSN# 6515-01-521-7976
Pad Isopropyl Alcohol Impregnated NonWVN Cotton/Rayon White 200S Qty = 6 NSN#6510-00-786-3736
Marker Tube Type Fine Tip Black Permanent No Odor Dries Instantly Qty = 2 NSN# 7520-00-312-6124
Nasal Trumpet 28FR Sterile Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-529-1187
Shield Eye Surgical Fox Single Natural Aluminum 12S Qty = 1 NSN# 6515-01-449-1016
Needle Decompression Device 14GA by 3.12IN Qty = 2 NSN#6515-01-541-0635
Bandage Kit Elastic Qty = 2 NSN#6510-01-492-275
Dressing Chest Seal Wound 8 x 6" Rectangular Sterily in Poly... NSN#6510-01-757-0300
Bandage Gauze Cotton y6 Ply White 4.5" Wide 4.1 yrds long Qty = 1 NSN# 6510-01-503-2117
Bandage Elastic Flesh Rolled Nonsteril 6" x 4.5 Yrds 10S Qty = 1 NSN#6510[-00-935-5823
Bandage Kit Elastic Abdominal Wound F/Trauma Kit Qty = 1 NSN# 6510-01-532-6656
Bandage Gauze Impregnated 3" x 4Yrd Kaolin Hemostatic Quick Clot Qty = 2 NSN# 6510-01-562-3325
Glove Patient Examining & Treatment Latex/Powder free Qty = 4 NSN# 6515-01-525-1975
Leash Shears Trauma Black High Break Strength Qty = 1 NSN # 6515-01-540-7226
Strap Cutter, Combat (includes case) Qty = 1 NSN# 4240-01-568-3219
Scissors Bandage 7.25" Lg Ang to Hdl 1.5" Cut LG Blunt Pts Crs Qty = 1 NSN#6515-00-935-7138


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

LastOutlaw said:


> I was always under the impression that having the gear and not knowing how to use it was better than not having it at all. Hopefully someone around will know how to use it.


But our little forum is called Prepared Society. A little training goes a long way. A lot can be learned by taking an EMT course. Then find a volunteer squad to work at to hone those skills. Or just take the class.



LastOutlaw said:


> Tourniquet Combat Application One-Handed Qty = 2
> Nasal Trumpet 28FR Sterile Qty = 1
> Needle Decompression Device 14GA by 3.12IN Qty = 2
> Dressing Chest Seal Wound 8 x 6" Rectangular Sterily in Poly...


These items alone may look simple, but some basic understanding on anatomy and thought process behind why you are using it can go a long way. Heck, misapplying a TQ can cause all sorts of problems, even a properly applied one can casue problems when it is released. Needle decompression can cause more harm than good. These tools are great but you should know how, when and why before using it.

I have a garage full of tools and have never done a head gasket change on a V8. But I have the tools for it. I know the basic principle of it since I have done a head gasket on my OHV mower... but no training or hands on knowledge doing a V8. If you are broken down on the side of the road, would you trust me; one to replace it and two that I guessed correctly the problem?


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

you mentioned Maxi pads,Tampons i suggest not using them on wounds,for 2 reasons.1st is,there not Sterile.2nd is.their designed to draw the blood into it.and that'll keep the blood from clotting to the wounds,to stop the bleeding..but yet.they might be good for cleaning out the wound,if there's debris or what ever in the would.and it needs to be gotten out some how..


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Jim1590 said:


> I have a garage full of tools and have never done a head gasket change on a V8. But I have the tools for it. I know the basic principle of it since I have done a head gasket on my OHV mower... but no training or hands on knowledge doing a V8. If you are broken down on the side of the road, would you trust me; one to replace it and two that I guessed correctly the problem?


The question is, if I'm laying laying along the road "with my head gasket blown" will you step up to the plate. When I ran an air ambulance we would go out in Cessna's or helicopters and drag our patients from remote clinics to the hospital. The more severe patients would have a jet called and they would be evacuated to a better hospital. Everybody has their limits. If you are hiking in the back country and fall suffering a severe head injury and Ben Carson is the next person down the trail you are still SOL. Tools can take you so far. Skills can take you so far. Together the can take you further than the mere sum of the two combined.

I've worked with medics that would not fly. We would send our ambulance out with one medic and one pilot and not all were willing to take on that responsibility. The same person would gladly work on a street ambulance where there was a team. We all have our limits as to when we will step up.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Caribou, you are bringing up a great point. I feel it is each of our responsibility to help to the best of our ability when we are able to. I would have loved to have worked that system with you. 

We all do have our limits but I think having something in the bag just because it is there but having no clue about the basics of using it, is dangerous. Like trying to fix a oil burner without get t ing some advice first!

Now I am not saying everyone needs to hold advanced degrees to stock something, just that the opinion of thinking some one else will know how to use my preps so I do not have to is dangerous. A little know how can go a long way, some more know how helps that much more.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Jim1590 said:


> Caribou, you are bringing up a great point. I feel it is each of our responsibility to help to the best of our ability when we are able to. I would have loved to have worked that system with you.
> 
> We all do have our limits but I think having something in the bag just because it is there but having no clue about the basics of using it, is dangerous. Like trying to fix a oil burner without get t ing some advice first!
> 
> Now I am not saying everyone needs to hold advanced degrees to stock something, just that the opinion of thinking some one else will know how to use my preps so I do not have to is dangerous. A little know how can go a long way, some more know how helps that much more.


Quoted for truth.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

As a nurse, I will say just because a nurse is competent or even thrives in one area of practice doesn't mean she/he will do so in another area. I have seen many great hospital nurses who just can't do home health. They are just too freaked out by the responsibility being all on them & that there is no code team or other nurse coming. 

We all have our limits. Some can't do vomit, mucus, or perform invasive procedures on kids. Working surgery is completely different than working the trauma unit where your patient is actually awake, screaming, & shooting blood. Nurses work in vastly different environments that require vastly different skill sets. Medical information changes so quickly that keeping up with the changes in your field is challenging, keeping up with all of nursing is impossible. 

Nurses are taught to do procedures with all the equipment & materials necessary right at hand. If you put a nurse in a situation where she has to McGuiver crap together to do what she needs to do, work alone & out of her specialty, along with the stress of TSHTF, & suddenly that nurse is not the expert one had hoped she'd be.

Also, nursing school was a long time ago for many of us & any skills we haven't done since school, well, let's just say you wouldn't want us to do them on you


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

I still would rather my friend the nurse do it. She has more skill in this than the rest of us do. I know that it is not perfect. Perfect would be an ER doctor and a small hospital. That is not going to be there in a SHFT . We can only stock what we can along with lots of reference books and put the most qualified in charge of it. I do thank everyone for your suggestions. My friend who is the nurse does too.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Any diabetics around you best get one of this.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Glu...oTCMjElbfegMcCFVAIkgodZqAEwg&biw=1366&bih=651


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

tunnelvision, we are not trying to convince you otherwise. We would never discourage being prepped. But we also (most of us) are big advocates for training. 

If you posted up saying you wanted to have these 3 controlled meds in your bag, legally obtained and properly stored. And asked for advice on use, dosage, how to reverse effects, possible side effects, what have you, there would be pages of advice.

Yes the RN has more skill in the surgical suite. But as tsrwivey pointed out, if you take the RN out of their comfort zone, you never know what will happen. I have seen it first hand. I have taken a ICU nurse on a critical transfer before (hospital policy said she had to go because of certain meds running) and I told her after a brief quiz to ascertain her knowledge to sit down, put her seatbelt on and DO NOT TOUCH ANYTHING no matter what happens. She was out of her depth and didn't grasp the basics. As any First Aid provider can tell you, a ER is great but useless if you do not do the simple thing first. I have seen RNs panic at starting an IV because the backup people were unavailable, it was all on them. I have seen a MD go into panic mode and hand a ET tube to the closest medic because he was unsure of his intubation skills. And that guy was the attending! He was known to do it. So much so, when he had to tube, they would always check the parking lot first for a medic. Course, he always got it done when forced to, but it was outside his comfort zone.

My advice is keep prepping, put whatever you want into that bag and know how to use it. Take a few from your group and take a first aid course. Then move it to an EMT course. You do not have to use the skills but an EMT is trained how to deal with the patient as they are, albeit in a very basic way. The surgical RN usually has their pt delivered to them mostly clean, major injuries under control and have shelves of equipment in the exact same place every time. I am NOT saying this RN cannot hack it or does not have the know how. But I would encourage her (him?) to expand their comfort zone before it is forced to expand. I have myself worked in hospitals with RNs. I have seen them outside their comfort zone and it can get ugly fast. Or it may not. We do not know your situation.

Just to put it out there, my mother is a retired RN. She worked in a Level 1 trauma centers ER. She was a charge RN for the shift, worked there for 20+ years. But she still maintained her EMT-I (next level up from EMT in CT) and enjoyed her time working as a volunteer on a ambulance. It was the same but very very different. Even then, she would come to me every year to help her brush up on EKG rhythms. She did not deal with the everyday, esp the more obscure ones, but I saw them much more often.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

readytogo said:


> Any diabetics around you best get one of this.
> https://www.google.com/search?q=Glu...oTCMjElbfegMcCFVAIkgodZqAEwg&biw=1366&bih=651


Good to have and any diabetic can get an Rx for it from their doc.

Caution for brittle and longterm diabetics. The glucagon works by stimulating glycogen stores in the liver. Long term diabetics may not have any stores left.

My ex wife is a insulin diabetic. I never bothered with the glucagon, I just put in a IV and gave her an amp of dextrose 50%. Picture it as maple syrup for the veins.

However you do it, they need to eat as soon as they are able to do so. These are simple carbs (sugars), they need complex ones. A granola bar is good in a pinch. PB&J even better.


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

Jim1590 said:


> tunnelvision, we are not trying to convince you otherwise. We would never discourage being prepped. But we also (most of us) are big advocates for training.
> 
> If you posted up saying you wanted to have these 3 controlled meds in your bag, legally obtained and properly stored. And asked for advice on use, dosage, how to reverse effects, possible side effects, what have you, there would be pages of advice.
> 
> ...


I am not offended, neither is my friend. I welcome any and all suggestions. None of us can be sure we have it all so thank you for all that you are telling me.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

tunnelvision said:


> I am not offended, neither is my friend. I welcome any and all suggestions. None of us can be sure we have it all so thank you for all that you are telling me.


Might I recommend some other members of your group take some first responder classes and training.

You have an RN but what if she is the patient and is unable to communicate the needed first aid?

The members of this forum are big on redundancy and would rather see you thrive than fail.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh imagine the class we could teach if we could get all of us together for a weekend. It would be a smorgasbord of knowledge. I bet there are a lot of us that are, or were, instructors or have enough background to act as one.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Jim1590 said:


> Oh imagine the class we could teach if we could get all of us together for a weekend. It would be a smorgasbord of knowledge. I bet there are a lot of us that are, or were, instructors or have enough background to act as one.


Love the concept but I think you are way off on the timeframe. LOL!

I like the meds idea. Any nurse can help on dosage and contra indications. Every prescription I receive has an information sheet included that can provide a wealth of knowledge. With only these four meds in your med pack it should be quite easy to become conversant in their usage. Every soldier is trained on the usage of morphine in basic training. They are issued it in a war zone.

The person that supplied these meds should also be a good resource as to their actual usage. For example, I titrate my opiate dosage to between one third to one half of the prescribed dosage. I would expect that many of the diabetics here have learned to titrate some of their meds.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I titrate my opioid use to my floor safe. Wife is same way, Motrin is strong enough, thank you very much. Course, no reason to ignore the script or toss them.

Maybe we need a list of storage meds. Some of them can get nasty if allowed to sit for too long,


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Jim1590 said:


> I titrate my opioid use to my floor safe.


I used the same plan for many years. I hope it works longer for you than it did for me. I prefer noni to any chemical solution. Once I found noni I was able eliminate the opioid use for years.


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## tunnelvision (Jul 2, 2015)

Our group has a rx save program.. We put aside one pill of each our rx a week to save. This way we have each built up a minimum of 3 mo and some 6 mo. rx. That is how we have the supply of morphine, oxy, and hydro pain pills. We were in a quandary about our insulin dependent people until the va started sending my hubby his Novolin N without refrigeration. We are starting to stockpile this too. All of our rx we rotate out so that they are good. I have the paperwork that is sent with our rx to the info on it plus I have several books on pills and their usage. I am sure you have by now figured out we are the home base for our group. We each have our strengths and you are right we need to cross train. I will bring that up in our next meeting.


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