# choosing a new (first) chain saw



## Dakine

Looking for any suggestions, here's the Popular Mechanics review of 7 models that are all in the 35-38cc range, with 16-18 inch bars. They range from $140 to $300 and they seemed to like three the best, Husqvarna, Stihl and Echo. I wasn't surprised to see Husquvarna and Stihl at the top of the list, I've heard many good things about them, Echo sounds a bit familiar but I haven't bought any tools like this before so I only hear a few people talking about them in the past I think.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/outdoor-tools/4283685#slide-1

The Husqvarna 240e was one of a couple that they rated 5 stars
cc: 38.2
weight: 10.4 lb.
bar: 16 in.
decibels: 103
price: $220

This seemed like an interesting one, but the reviews I read at Amazon, the negative ones were recent and seemed to describe issues that new users like myself may find irritating or show stoppers, such as poor documentation and fail to start problems.

Lowe's had many more reviews, and an overall 4 star rating 86 vs. 35 on good vs bad is not a good indicator..., also not on this exact model, similar same engine size 14 inch bar though and that makes sense since Amazon said this one is discontinued..

The Stihl model is quite a bit more expensive, and that spendy price tag was the only thing they listed that they didnt like about it.

Stihl MS 210 C-BE
Specs:

cc: 35.2
weight: 10.6 lb.
bar: 16 in.
decibels: 102
price: $290

Amazon apparently doesnt carry this model because a search for Stihl MS 210 C-BE only returned Husqvarna saws, and replacement Stihl chains.

A search of Lowes didnt find any Stihl models which I thought was odd because I'm fairly certain I saw them in store last time I was there a couple weeks ago.

Any thoughts/suggestions? I should also mention that this is intended for light to moderate use on property that I want to buy, and while camping & hunting as needed. It needs to be durable and reliable and I'd rather pay more up front to get the right product than worry about it needing to go to the shop after I try to use it only to find out it was not dependable.

thanks!


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## Jason

Like you said, Dakine, buy a good one. I use a Stihl MS-290 Farm Boss to cut probably 10 cords of wood per year for our outdoor woodburner. I actually have 2 but mainly use one. The automatic oiler on my backup doesn't seem to work so well and I have yet to tear it down and find the trouble.

I'm happy with my saw. It does the job, is usually plenty powerful, and the 18" bar is plenty for me. 

Mechanically it's a good machine, starts well, and runs like a top.

Uncle Joe would probably be a great one to ask about this. I hear he's cut down a tree or 2 in his day.


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## Sentry18

I have a Stihl as well (unsure of model). I have it because a large branch fell and I needed a chainsaw. Went to the store and the guy said "buy a Stihl and I'll never see you again, buy something else and you'll be back". I bought the Stihl and it has been 100% reliable every time I needed it, which has not been that often but it does come out 1-2x a year.


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## bacpacker

I have a 20+ yo Husky 51 that has been used a ton. Today I had to get the brake worked on. First issue with it other than chains since I had it. I have no idea if they are still made as well today as they were then. Mine was recommended by a state forester friend of mine.
OTH I do know lots of professionals today use Sthil's. That says enough for me. Ehco, I wouldn't touch, Poulan either.


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## mosquitomountainman

My favorite is Stihl.


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## Dakine

UncleJoe said:


> For light to moderate use you could probably get by with an Echo. I have Echo weedwhackers, leaf blowers and hedge trimmers. They've been good to me over the years. One of my blowers is 10 years old and still works quite well.
> 
> Chainsaws are a different matter for me. I've had a couple Echos but seemed to wear them out in a couple years. But I use them hard every day. I had one Husky and despite several trips back to the dealer, it was always hard to start never really ran right. I ended up giving it away.
> 
> Stihl is the Cadillac of chainsaws. When properly cared for it will last a lifetime for the average homeowner. Yep, they cost more. 20-25% over an Echo of the same size. But if you have to replace the Echo in 5 years you haven't saved anything.
> 
> Jason has a good saw in the 290. It will take care of most anything you want to do around the home.
> 
> Something else to consider. You should think about getting a little more saw than you feel you need. One day a tree is going to fall and you'll say to yourself; boy I wish this thing had a little more power or would accept a slightly longer bar.
> Personally, if I was going to buy one saw for around the house it would be the 362. 59cc and will take a bar from 16" to 25". But they're up near $700 now where the 290 is around $500. A lot of folks will have their jaw drop to the ground at those prices but you need to keep in mind, this is once and done. With a minimal amount of care you'll never buy another saw.
> 
> And no, I don't own stock in Stihl.  But my livelihood depends a saw I can count on to work long and hard, day in and day out. And I have a lot of them.
> 
> ETA. Lowes does not carry Stihl. You can only get them at an authorized Stihl dealer


Oh my, that is a lot to digest, but the unwavering fact is the high praise for them.

Hmmm, those prices are not... completely... out of the question, but it's a lot more than I had intended to spend... so if I do this now, I have to put other projects on hold. Probably the new Glock 26 will have to wait, that makes me sad  

I really appreciate the professional critique and suggestions, thank you very much!

One more question, I've heard about, still need to research people setting up chainsaw mills to produce their own lumber for... whatever, possibly cabins or just projects around the house, to even selling it I guess. It sounds like these saws you're using have that kind of reliability and are intended for lots of real work. Would these saws fit that kind of work too?

Stihl is now by far the frontrunner for my saw. So now it's just a matter of settling on the model and finding an authorized dealer.


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## AdmiralD7S

Dakine said:


> One more question, I've heard about, still need to research people setting up chainsaw mills to produce their own lumber for... whatever, possibly cabins or just projects around the house, to even selling it I guess. It sounds like these saws you're using have that kind of reliability and are intended for lots of real work. Would these saws fit that kind of work too?.


I would recommend against it. Cutting short chops across the grain is one thing. Cutting down the grain for long hauls is another. I suspect you can do it with these saws, but I think you're going to burn out a good number of chains. Hopefully someone else with more experience than I can confirm/refute what I've said.


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## Tirediron

I agree on stihl , If you can afford it buy a pro model, they are lighter and designed to work all day every day, 
Second choice would be a Husky, but they come with a crappy chain and the oiler tends to leak and are often hard to start. 
Don't waste your money on the cheaper consumer saws, If you are trying to go low buck get the Stihl designed for ranchers, they weigh what a pro saw 3 sizes bigger weighs, but it is a choice you have to make.


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## Dakine

UncleJoe said:


> Now you're getting into a whole different type of cutting. You need a special chain called a ripping chain. The minimum recommended saw size is 55cc with an 18" bar. If you need or want to go any larger than that you need to move up to a 68cc saw. Now you're looking at a $1000+ saw.
> 
> I don't do it but I know a couple folks that have the Alaska Saw Mill. I don't do it because of the waste. The chain cuts away 3/8" with every pass along the log. That adds up in a hurry. When I want logs cut I call a fellow with a portable band saw. The very thin blade makes almost no waste so you get a lot more boards out of each log.


Thanks!

definitely a lot more reason to go the bandsaw route, doesnt take many boards to lose a board in the waste.


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## mosquitomountainman

I've done some ripping and it takes a lot of power and you'll be spitting sawdust out of your mouth for a week! I use it to make square sided timbers. If I wanted to do more than the occasional job I'd hire someone with a bands mill.


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## goshengirl

Dakine, this is definitely not my area of expertise, but I can pass along a smidgen of personal experience. We moved out to the country a few years ago, and with that came a huge jump in chainsaw use - our Poulan wasn't going to cut it anymore. Hubby researched and researched again, and settled on the Stihl Farm Boss (same saw as Jason's). He loves that saw. It gets A LOT of use. It's dependable. It's solid. It gets the job done. We didn't have a bunch of money to spend, but we wanted to get a solid piece of equipment that would be lasting. My husband has been very satisfied with his choice.


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## cowboyhermit

I can't disagree with anything that has been said here, can't go wrong with a Stihl imo.

I will throw out my $0.02 though. I have used everything from cheapo to the biggest Stihls with 3-4' bars (you wanna see wood chips fly put a 4' bar into a west coast cedar watch the eyes). Typically I would always recommend something in the middle of the road, not on the bleeding edge and not on the bottom. BUT I have to be honest and say that my "favorite" saw is the Stihl ms170:nuts:. This is the saw I use 90% of the time these days. Yes it's mostly plastic, no it doesn't have many features like "easy start" or what have you. On the other hand it is amazingly light, really affordable, relatively simple, etc. Because of the extra thin kerf chain and bar it is really efficient at cutting and punches well above it's weight imo. It's limitations are pretty clear, if you are cutting hardwood you will have to be more patient, putting a longer bar is not going to do well, small gas tank, etc. With it I have personally felled, delimbed, and bucked up many "hardwood" trees that were larger in diameter than the 16" bar though mostly under 24". That is pushing it's limits and I should know what I am doing, someone with less experience may have a tougher time. That is the thing as well, everyone's circumstances are different. While I cut plenty of elms, maples, etc, most of what we cut here are spruce, birch and poplar not the toughest of woods to deal with.

So, while I have to admit that I feel the 170 is the best value in a saw that doesn't mean it is right for others. 

Btw, not sure it applies in the U.S but in Canada every fall Stihl seems to offer a "kit" deal with their saws, last one I picked up (never used except to test, I am a big believer in the "one is none ..." idea) came with a case, extra chain, tool and file I believe, for the same as regular price (under $200), hard to beat that.


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## goshengirl

cowboyhermit said:


> Btw, not sure it applies in the U.S but in Canada every fall Stihl seems to offer a "kit" deal with their saws, last one I picked up (never used except to test, I am a big believer in the "one is none ..." idea) came with a case, extra chain, tool and file I believe, for the same as regular price (under $200), hard to beat that.


That's what we got when we bought the saw. (I want to say it was the month of October...?) Buying a case won't break the bank, but "free" is best.


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## PreparedRifleman73

UncleJoe said:


> And no, I don't own stock in Stihl.  But my livelihood depends a saw I can count on to work long and hard, day in and day out. And I have a lot of them.


Great topic and great advice - I'm also looking at buying one and had it narrowed down between Husq and Stihl. You've sold me on Stihl. If you don't mind me asking, what do you do for a living (or do you use it quite a bit at the homestead)?

Thanks for the help!


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## LincTex

My .02......

I have had two Stihls. 

One 028AV Super (51cc) I bought "used" in Polson, Montana in 1991 for $225 and used VERY heavily for 7 years until I sold it to a good friend who needed a reliable chainsaw that would NEVER let him down  . 

The Makita saw I had next (Dolmar) is worth mentioning here for historical purposes only and nothing more. Same with the Poulan Pro I bought new (but was returned stock) for extremely cheap and used for one year.

Many years later, I then bought bought a Husq 51 for $175 and though it was a very capable saw, it just wasn't a Stihl. Yes, it was always hard to start (why?) but did start, and had good power, but the oiling system was never quite the same as the Stihl and I never liked their version of anti-vibe. The Stihl was just SOOOO much smoother. I used it for two years and sold it when I got my MS290 that I bought used on Craigslist for $250.

Wow, what a Cadillac. Yes, it is bigger and heavier, but the power and smoothness is the best ever. It is 57cc and is about the largest I will ever truly need... except when cutting knotty oak, but I can't justify going up in size/power... it just takes a *tiny* bit longer. 
.
.
.

I really would like to know what your plans are for the saw you intend to buy. 
I hate to recommend something without knowing what you intend to do with it.


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## LincTex

Dakine said:


> I should also mention that this is intended for light to moderate use on property that I want to buy, and while camping & hunting as needed. It needs to be durable and reliable and I'd rather pay more up front to get the right product than worry about it needing to go to the shop after I try to use it only to find out it was not dependable.


Ok, I missed this.

It sounds like you will be carrying it around a lot, so definitely get something under 50cc (although I personally never would, but I have a different use for my saws than you - I never take mine hiking/camping/hunting!)

Cowboy hermit has the right size saw suggestions (But I would get at least 38-40cc). Small and light for portability will be your friends.


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## mosquitomountainman

I cut about ten cords per year and I've done it with small cheap and large expensive saws. I love using my Stihl but others will work. I needed a saw to take down an old elm tree at my mother's house and since my saws were 1500 miles away we bought a Poulan Pro with a 20 inch bar. It's my second favorite saw. It's lighter than my Stihl but cuts slower. If I couldn't afford a Stihl I'd stay with the Poulan Pro and just plan on the job taking longer. When you get a replacement chain buy a skip chain. They work better IMO. 

The Poulan Pro is lighter and more compact so it's easier to transport. Mine costs less than $200.00 and came with a plastic case.


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## GrinnanBarrett

Buy the one made in the USA. Also buy from a local dealer who will back up the warranty on the product. It is sort of like buying a stove from Home Depot or Sears and finding out later you have to call an 800 number to even schedule service on it. You want parts available NOW and Service NOW not in two weeks or whenever they can get to you. 

Another example is buying a tractor from India claiming they are the biggest in the world (NOT THE BEST but the BIGGEST). Then you find out you have to order the parts from India. Husky and Stihl are both made in the USA if I remember correctly. We have had both of them and on the low end a Poulan. Pay a little more to get the right product from the right dealer who you know and trust. GB


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## goshengirl

mosquitomountainman said:


> If I couldn't afford a Stihl I'd stay with the Poulan Pro and just plan on the job taking longer. When you get a replacement chain buy a skip chain. They work better IMO.


Thanks for the chain recommendation. I still use my husband's old Poulan Pro (because it's smaller and lighter than his Stihl). After he downs a tree I go in and take care of the smaller stuff from the top of the tree. The three chains we have for that saw are, as my husband says, "duller than snot." I'll have them sharpened, of course, but I really want a new chain.


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## LincTex

mosquitomountainman said:


> The Poulan Pro is lighter and more compact so it's easier to transport. Mine costs less than $200.00 and came with a plastic case.


I hate the Poulan/Craftsman saws.... at least the ones from 10-15 years ago. Their oiling system is the worst of any saw out there, and trying to keep the chain on the bar where it belongs seems to be a constant battle. I have also had many issues with their recoil start system parts (all plastic) and their resale value is very little, even when nearly new.

They make a great saw for someone who will use it for three hours a year and then toss it after 8-10 years (your typical suburban American)... same with weedaters. Designed to last about 25-50 hours. Sigh....


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## Tirediron

goshengirl said:


> Thanks for the chain recommendation. I still use my husband's old Poulan Pro (because it's smaller and lighter than his Stihl). After he downs a tree I go in and take care of the smaller stuff from the top of the tree. The three chains we have for that saw are, as my husband says, "duller than snot." I'll have them sharpened, of course, but I really want a new chain.


Treat your saw to a new stihl chain, If you keep it out of the dirt it will saw a LOT of wood before needing a touch up


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## Jason

My local Stihl dealer (Coulson's in Belle Vernon, PA) runs a special once in a while offering buy one, get one half off on chains. That's when I get them. Also, hand sharpening a chain is not difficult. It's a great skill to have when you're running a saw because a sharp chain saves gas ($) and time by cutting more efficiently and it's a whole lot easier to use.


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## Jason

That's the truth!


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## goshengirl

Tirediron said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Treat your saw to a new stihl chain, If you keep it out of the dirt it will saw a LOT of wood before needing a touch up


That's what I told hubby I wanted (I learn so much here on PS :congrat.

Jason, I'm a little intimidated regarding sharpening a chain myself, but I do need to learn. I need to learn how to sharpen everything! UJ, if you've toasted a couple chains while learning, then I won't be too hard on myself when I do the same (and probably more than a few...)


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## mosquitomountainman

LincTex said:


> I hate the Poulan/Craftsman saws.... at least the ones from 10-15 years ago. Their oiling system is the worst of any saw out there, and trying to keep the chain on the bar where it belongs seems to be a constant battle. I have also had many issues with their recoil start system parts (all plastic) and their resale value is very little, even when nearly new.
> 
> They make a great saw for someone who will use it for three hours a year and then toss it after 8-10 years (your typical suburban American)... same with weedaters. Designed to last about 25-50 hours. Sigh....


Interesting, I've owned two and never had a single problem with either. (Except for the time I put lawnmower gas in one.) My Craftsman saw is made by Homelite. Works great but leaks bar oil just like the other two Homelite saws I own. We currently own six chainsaws. It's a long story to tell why!


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## mosquitomountainman

The best way to learn how to sharpen a chain IMO, is to purchase one of the sharpening jigs than clamp to the bar.


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## Tirediron

mosquitomountainman said:


> The best way to learn how to sharpen a chain IMO, is to purchase one of the sharpening jigs than clamp to the bar.


Yeah but where is the adventure in that???

You just grind the rakers off right?? really big chips that way


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## Meerkat

Hubby bought a Poulan Pro 18in.bar to cut down some big trres and he likes it, cut down about 15 trees large oaks. Then cut up some of the limbs,but mostly just left them there because he couldn't handle all that work. 

He is old and diasbled so he liked it too because its light and easy to hold and cuts right through the tree like butter.

It was also cheap half the price of the others. $169.00


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## cowboyhermit

I had someone do exactly that with the rakers on one of my chains, I usually check the chain first but I grabbed it and went,  she dug in really good. The clip on file guides are a good compromise for someone learning to sharpen, they show you the angle, and the tool to check the raker height these are now always with my beater saw if anyone uses it, and angles are marked. I can't count how many times I heard people swear about not being able to cut something or a saw not working only to look at the chain and wonder what they were thinking. The best saw in the world with a dull chain is still useless.

I can't say I know much about the cheaper brands but you can pick up a new Stihl for under $200, of course you can easily spend double that but it makes the other makes hard to consider. 
And just fyi, the ms170 weighs in at only 8.6lbs, it's pretty amazing if you ever have to pack it (mine have made more miles than I would like to count) but it also can make a difference on the arms, it is a remarkable quirk of physics that tools manage to get significantly heavier as the day progresses.


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## PreparedRifleman73

UncleJoe said:


> This..........


Yeah I need to do just that and got down a ginormous tree in my front yard. It looks like it wants to kill my neighbor's new house! I don't want to pay $1,300 for it so I guess I gotta learn!



UncleJoe said:


> But you'll probably screw up a chain or 2 until you get the hang of it.
> 
> Wonder how I would know that?


You didn't just volunteer to write a post on chain sharpening did you?


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## LincTex

UncleJoe said:


> But you'll probably screw up a chain or 2 until you get the hang of it.


I have seen FAR more chains screwed up with various powered "chain sharpening devices" than just a plain ol' file. The camp on guide is also a great starting point, but I never use one.

Get the right size file for your chain, and use the little diagonal line on the tooth itself as your guide, and how can you screw it up? Oh yes, jacking with the rakers seems to be a common problem.


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## cowboyhermit

Or not hold the file back tight against the tooth so they instead end up filing down into the chain, holding the file the wrong angle in the horizontal direction, and a lot of other things that I can even understand what they did.


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## Jason

Yinz are all describing my first year of wood heating.


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## Viking

bacpacker said:


> I have a 20+ yo Husky 51 that has been used a ton. Today I had to get the brake worked on. First issue with it other than chains since I had it. I have no idea if they are still made as well today as they were then. Mine was recommended by a state forester friend of mine.
> OTH I do know lots of professionals today use Sthil's. That says enough for me. Ehco, I wouldn't touch, Poulan either.


I had a Husky 50 for many years until it got wiped out with a dumb move by me. I now have a 345 model which runs great and does a very good job for being a smaller saw. Being in logging country I hear many guys like the Sthil saws the best, I've been told by more that one person that has owned Husky's and has gone to Sthil saws because from what they say Sthil's don't need to keep the rpm up like the Husky's do and they may be right as my Husky will bog fairly easy. When we lived in Colorado I owned an Echo, it was very powerful but half the time when I ran through the first tank of fuel I couldn't get it to start for love or money, bad deal as I was logging and cutting firewood for a guy and needed things to go right or I didn't make the money. I will say, when the Echo ran it was a real hotrod on the other hand I'd have a hard time ever owning one again. I don't think you can go wrong with either a Sthil or Husky, just don't burn fuels with ethanol in them unless absolutely necessary, the ethanol is tough on neoprene parts.


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## Viking

LincTex said:


> I have seen FAR more chains screwed up with various powered "chain sharpening devices" than just a plain ol' file. The camp on guide is also a great starting point, but I never use one.
> 
> Get the right size file for your chain, and use the little diagonal line on the tooth itself as your guide, and how can you screw it up? Oh yes, jacking with the rakers seems to be a common problem.


I've never used a powered chain sharpener and if I get into a good wet log, especially madrone, it will put out cuttings as long as the log is wide when cutting.


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## musketjim

I've been using a Homelite and a Huskie for several years and have dropped bucked and ripped lumber with both at BOL. This year I will upgrade to a larger Huskie for more extensive ripping.


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## Viking

musketjim said:


> I've been using a Homelite and a Huskie for several years and have dropped bucked and ripped lumber with both at BOL. This year I will upgrade to a larger Huskie for more extensive ripping.


 Back in the late 1960's the excavation contractor I worked for had a Homelite XL 12, I liked it so well I bought one for myself when we lived in Colorado. It was a great saw but it was made before the saws that had vibration reducing handles and if I cut a lot of firewood with it it would make my hands go numb. The Echo saw I had was the first I owned that had the handle isolation mounts and when it decided to run with refills it never made my hands numb. The pluses of the Huskies I've owned, always started great, could be set on the ground running while moving logs or cut pieces and it would idle and re-throttle without skipping a beat and they are economical on fuel. They cut a lot of wood for just one tankful. I have a neighbor that has owned Huskies and Sthil saws and he claims the Sthil is a much better saw, I have no experience using a Sthil so I can't be the judge on that.


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## Apachespyder

I just recently invested in a Stihl 230, and I do mean invested. They are pricey but it has been the best chainsaw I've owned. I took my old one to get worked on and the mechanic wouldn't even work on my old one because it wasn't a Stihl or a Husqvarna. The cheaper Lowes and Home Depot saws work fine but when they break you have to buy a new one. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Survival Forum mobile app


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## LincTex

OK, I have been spending far too much time over on Arboristsite.com

Concerning the "Poulan Pro":
Since they sell 10 (or more) small crappy saws for every large one, the small ones (like my 40-42cc "Pro" models) are really the same crappy garbage tech and quality as the "Wild Thing" (a running joke).... they make a ton of small engined saws they know will only see 50 hours before getting tossed.

The EXCEPTION is the large 50cc model they offer, the PP5020AV. 
Amazingly, since Poulan doesn't want to build 50cc engines for saws they can't sell many of, the 50cc guts in this saw come straight from Husqvarna. Pull the covers and you see the "crowned H" everywhere. A real steal that can still be found new for only $179.
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...ro-5020-to-see-what-there-about.192321/page-2

For small lightweight saws, there is another "Wolf in Sheeps clothing", and that is the Ryobi chainsaws. The plastic looks the same as Homelite, but the engines are RedMax (Chinese Zenoah). Lots of accolades on these saws. 
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/a-good-trimming-saw-for-100-ryobi-10532-review.100462/

Factory refurbs at great prices:
http://www.cporyobi.com/ryobi-chain-saws/ryobi-chain-saws,default,sc.html


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## HamiltonFelix

I have to agree with the folks who say buy a bit more saw than you think you need. Around 2002, I was intending to cut quite a bit of wood, only had my little old Homelite Super E-Z (still have two of those 70's saws that will run), so was shopping and thinking maybe a Husqvarna 365. Turned out Wood's Logging Supply had a deal on a Husky 385XP demo with a few hours on it. I gave $400 for an $800 saw. I've never regretted it. Buying a 28" bar and chain for firewood work was a mistake for a 5'10" man. It really is more comfortable with the 32" bar. It's always good to have more than one chain - even more than one bar from some "serious" users. 

From what I see in logging country, Stihl is #1 and Husqvarna is #2. My father was a 3rd generation logger and used many of the earliest chainsaws, Mall, Disston, Titan, etc. I remember when McCulloch and Homelite "owned the woods." My theory is that the MBA's and "marketing geniuses" ruined Homelite and McCulloch. Some bright boy figured out there are very few professionals and millions of "suburbanites" who want an occasional tool or a fun Father's Day gift. So those companies put their efforts into making the Power Mac 6, then then Mini Mac, and the XL2 and smaller toys. 

The tiny "consumer" saws were handy but not very durable or expensive. Serious users shifted to Stihl and Husqvarna, who continued R&D to improve their products until they owned the woods. Then Stihl and Husky started marketing more small saws and, surprise surprise, Suburban Dad wanted "the same brand the professionals use." So the guys who kept improving their high quality products ended up owning both the pro and the consumer markets. It's sad. I believe the Homelite Super E-Z of the late 1960's and the 1970's was the smallest saw Homelite ever sold that was actually made to do a day's work, day after day. It's outmoded today, but still a great little "just in case" saw to tuck away in your 4x4. 

Poulan seems to hang on, mostly by cute marketing of cheap saws (I have a tiny cheap old Poulan that I inherited from Mom, have actually used it up a tree because it's my lightest saw, but it's pretty cheesy), Homelite power equipment is probably on its last gasp, Echo is still making some halfway decent products. Jonsered is Husky by another name. There are a few other "no-name" makers around, as well as contracted stuff like Craftsman. Sachs Dolmar still exists, which is only fair since they are the original chainsaw company. But if it's going to be more than an occasional use and non-critical tool, I'd go Stihl or Husky. 

BTW, my Husky 385XP always seems to start OK, even after sitting for long periods. But virtually every saw I own will leak a bit of bar oil while it sits. 

Learning to file by hand is a Good Thing. But people tend to be righties or lefties, and it may be a while before your hand filed saw cuts perfectly straight instead of cutting a "dish" when going through a fair sized log. 

It's getting harder and harder to find "real" gasoline these days. I guess it's time to get one of those test kits from fuel-testers.com. Maybe I should look for avgas. All but one of my saws were made in the days when leaded gas was common. Seeing the Homelite XL brushcutter I used in my youth advertised as a vintage item makes me feel old.  I still wish I had one, even though I have a perfectly good Stihl brushcutter.

On the Alaska Sawmill issue, I'd consider them for very occasional use, especially way out in the sticks. Yeah, they waste wood with that big kerf. Dad had one once, set up with ripping chain and a 30" bar on a Homelite 2100. I think my Husky 385XP could handle one if I wanted to spring for a ripping chain. They are a comparatively low cost and low volume option, sort of like getting a Lee Loader for your .38 instead of a serious press and dies. For now, I have a friend who owns a nice bandsaw mill...


----------



## Tirediron

Alaska mills are for the "dream of carving it out of the woods" types there are really cheap and good attachments like the beam machine, which is basicly a guide that uses a milled board as a track. A small band saw is the only real efficient way to self cut wood, but then that gets pushed into slow land by a swing saw. Cheaper to hire it done now, but a darn good skill to have in a PAW


----------



## Dakine

Hi all!

sorry about the old bump, but just wanted to give an update... today I bought a Stihl MS-250 


I appreciate all the responses I got, and I really liked the price point and lighter weight of the 170 but as I was looking at it, I was thinking to myself better to get more saw than I think I will need and maybe I'll double back and get that 170 as a little brother backup saw.

I got the ms-250, case, chaps, extra chain, engine oil and bar/chain oil for $550 out the door.


----------



## cowboyhermit

I have always found this to be the best time of year to buy a saw. That's a good saw, I'm sure you will be happy with it for a long time if you treat it good. Will probably still be around for a long time if you abuse it sometimes like some of us do

As much as we complain about inflation and loss of purchasing power, the amount of value you can get out of that 500 and change is really amazing to me. Some tools are very reasonable these days if you are careful with your $$$


----------



## BobR1

I have owned a few saws over the years. The one I bought 30 years ago was a Husky 61 Rancher if I remembr correctly. Great saw, and the right size for general farm use. Some Idiot at Huskey decided that my local dealer was going to sell Huskeys only, and not Sthil. So he went wth his best selling saw the Stihl and dropped Huskey. The only Huskey Dealer around then was a joke. Every time I needed the Husky worked on it took 3 trips to get it fixed.
Time for a new saw. The new one was a 440 Magnum Stihl. This is a big saw, but talk about cutting wood.

My point would be buy from someone who can keep your saw running. I bought my 440 from Ricks Saw Shop. When I need something fixed, 99% of the time I can pick it up the next day at the latest, FIXED! On a day like today, I can probably get it fixed while I wait. My last shop visit was my Wood Splitter. He fixed it while I was still at his shop.

I could probably shop around and save maby $20 on a saw. I could also spend the $20 on gas running around checking for a cheaper price. My advice, buy from your local saw shop who has a good reputation for his *Service.* It will pay off. Also listen when they give advice on what you need.

Bob


----------



## cowboyhermit

BobR1 said:


> I have owned a few saws over the years. The one I bought 30 years ago was a Husky 61 Rancher if I remembr correctly. Great saw, and the right size for general farm use. Some Idiot at Huskey decided that my local dealer was going to sell Huskeys only, and not Sthil. So he went wth his best selling saw the Stihl and dropped Huskey. The only Huskey Dealer around then was a joke. Every time I needed the Husky worked on it took 3 trips to get it fixed.
> Time for a new saw. The new one was a 440 Magnum Stihl. This is a big saw, but talk about cutting wood.
> 
> My point would be buy from someone who can keep your saw running. I bought my 440 from Ricks Saw Shop. When I need something fixed, 99% of the time I can pick it up the next day at the latest, FIXED! On a day like today, I can probably get it fixed while I wait. My last shop visit was my Wood Splitter. He fixed it while I was still at his shop.
> 
> I could probably shop around and save maby $20 on a saw. I could also spend the $20 on gas running around checking for a cheaper price. My advice, buy from your local saw shop who has a good reputation for his *Service.* It will pay off. Also listen when they give advice on what you need.
> 
> Bob


Good advice, finding a good service place is important because poor service is worse than none at all. On the other hand, fixing what? Aside from bars, chains, sprockets and very occasionally a plug, all of which are a simple parts swap, a chainsaw needing service should be a pretty rare occurrence ime. Even a carb is a pretty darn easy swap.

It's a bit off-topic I suppose but I wonder what kind of stuff are people taking saws to mechanics for?


----------



## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> ....a chainsaw needing service should be a pretty rare occurrence imho.
> 
> It's a bit off-topic I suppose but I wonder what kind of stuff are people taking saws to mechanics for?


I don't know, either. 
Some saws are pretty difficult to work on, but not impossible.
I do buy other people's "Oooops" saws and fix them, though.

I have only had *TWO* saws "fail" on me over all these years.... and it was only after a LOT of use had taken their toll on them (A very old Mac and an old Poulan). They were ready to retire anyway.

I have saws that I've owned 20 years and I've never even had to change the fuel filter clunk yet. (Stihl 028AV Super, Husqv 45, Makita DCS 520i)


----------



## crabapple

I have a "Farm Boss" maybe 20 years old.
Still works, my son uses it to take down large trees.


----------



## Tirediron

I think my son is about to buy a Stihl 461, unless a Husky 372 is a couple of hundred cheaper, then he said he could put up with the oiler leaking.


----------



## LincTex

mosquitomountainman said:


> ...we bought a Poulan Pro with a 20 inch bar. It's my second favorite saw.


I then proceeded to hate on Poulan saws for a bit....



mosquitomountainman said:


> Interesting, I've owned two and never had a single problem with either.


I owe MMM an apology - -

there are VERY different differences between various "Poulan Pro" saws. 
This thread has been gnawing on me for a while, so I made this a hobby of mine to see if there was any merit.

That 20" bar saw is probably either a Poulan Pro 330 or a 5020AV. Both of these saws use made in Sweden Husqvarna guts,...NOT "Made in USA Poulan" cheap crap. (sorry, it's true)

My experience with "Poulan Pro" saws has been with their "under 46cc's".. .those are indeed a joke. There isn't ANYTHING pro about them.

Now that I know that the larger Poulan Pro's are actually Husky's in sheep's clothing, I'd like to try them out.


----------



## Viking

LincTex said:


> I then proceeded to hate on Poulan saws for a bit....
> 
> I owe MMM an apology - -
> 
> there are VERY different differences between various "Poulan Pro" saws.
> This thread has been gnawing on me for a while, so I made this a hobby of mine to see if there was any merit.
> 
> That 20" bar saw is probably either a Poulan Pro 330 or a 5020AV. Both of these saws use made in Sweden Husqvarna guts,...NOT "Made in USA Poulan" cheap crap. (sorry, it's true)
> 
> My experience with "Poulan Pro" saws has been with their "under 46cc's".. .those are indeed a joke. There isn't ANYTHING pro about them.
> 
> Now that I know that the larger Poulan Pro's are actually Husky's in sheep's clothing, I'd like to try them out.


What's the model number for the Husky saws that are under the Poulan names?


----------



## hashbrown

Dakine said:


> Hi all!
> 
> sorry about the old bump, but just wanted to give an update... today I bought a Stihl MS-250
> 
> I appreciate all the responses I got, and I really liked the price point and lighter weight of the 170 but as I was looking at it, I was thinking to myself better to get more saw than I think I will need and maybe I'll double back and get that 170 as a little brother backup saw.
> 
> I got the ms-250, case, chaps, extra chain, engine oil and bar/chain oil for $550 out the door.


Is it the easy start saw?


----------



## Woody

I missed this from a year ago? Damn. 

I logged for several years back in the mid 1970's to the 80's. Worked for GP (Georgia Pacific) in Maine, north of Moosehead lake, upper Vermont and then the NYS area, upstate.

Different saws worked in different areas. In Maine the Husky (Husqvarna) was the saw of choice. Don't remember the size though, but they were small. You were cutting frozen softwoods with limbs right to the ground. They would need high RPM's and would SCREAM through that timber! They were also lightweight and you could kill some trees with them. The company store would stock about any part you needed so to have anything else was a waste. They were fine saws for the job.

Vermont was Homolight territory, old saws too. Heavy, clunky, ornery old things, but reliable and had more power to them than you would ever need. I don't think anyone had a saw newer than 20 years old. They laughed at my Husky, and I soon had to admit they were right. It wasn't up to cutting large hardwoods, not at all on a production scale. When you needed it, you couldn't dig the teeth in and put pressure on it. The RPM's would come down fast and be worthless. I bought a brand new Stihl, don't remember the model, 55 maybe? But it weighed 45 pounds empty. Thinking on it, it couldn't have been any larger because it took 3/8 pitch chain. Doesn't the 75 take 1/2inch? I would make up a new chain, take the rakers down half way and that beast wouldn't stall. You could be in a backcut dig the dogs in and LEAN on it, it would LUG right into it, throwing out chunks, not chips of wood! LOL!!!

Moved back to NY and Pioneer was the saw of choice. No matter what the problem was, with a scrench and a few minutes, you could get one of those old beasts running. They were as heavy and bulky as the Homolights though. MY Stihl was WAY more saw than I needed so traded it in for a Stihl 045. That saw saw several years of production cutting. That meaning you were in the woods waiting for it to get light enough to start, and didn't come out until it was too dark to cut. Unless it was too windy a day of course. Sure it got tickled every night! I'd touch up the chain a few times a day too. I can only remember a few times I would have to take one of those boat anchor Pioneers in the woods to cut though. Still have it today and after sitting for long spells, a little love will get it to fire right up. No safety brakes or anti-vibration stuff on it, it is just a working saw.

That was the first automatic oiler saw I had. The only issues were if you didn't bring it in every night, strip it and blow it out. Well, not strip it but take the bar off and clean the air filter kind of thing. Regular daily maintenance stuff.

I don't know about the longevity of any of the newer saws, any brand. I've had some in my hands and they all seem way too light and have too many extra's for me. Chain brake, anti-kick, trigger safety.... Lean over to check your cut, the saw stops! Oh, you hit the brake. Reset it and try again. Huh? It is a chain saw, it is inheritantly dangerous! Sharp thing spinning really fast really close to you kind of dangerous?

And for sharpening. Try to find someone to actually show you that. It is nothing you can learn from a video or reading about it. It really is easy with two safety rules: SHARP file and WEAR GLOVES! I still have a scar on a knuckle from a dull file and the "it only needs a stroke or two...." Don't use a chain over and over and over because "it still kind of cuts", STOP and sharpen it. I would use chains until the teeth were little triangles on them. A sharp chain makes the work easy for you AND the saw. It is also much safer!!! And yes, you are going to screw up a few chains. But you will eventually learn what to do to keep the teeth even: two heavy on the left side, three heavy of the right side.... Or two light and one heavy or whatever works to keep the chain from pulling.

Alright, I've gone on long enough...


----------



## LincTex

Viking said:


> What's the model number for the Husky saws that are under the Poulan names?


I have several answers:

1) It seems anything over 46cc is a sure thing. The 46cc saws themselves can be hit and miss and are a combo of such, usually a Swedish crank, rod & piston/cylinder with the rest of the parts a mix. It looks like under 46cc on older Poulans is "all Poulan" only.

2) Husky has pro saws, and NOT pro saws. 
The under-45cc Husky saws (38cc, 40cc) are going to kill Husky's good name because it's ALL Poulan underneath (the other way around, Poulan in Husky or Jonsered Clothing) and those small "consumer" saws are already giving Husky/Jred a bad name for being a crappy saw.... With new Jonsereds and new Huqvarnas, 45cc is the cut-off point.

3) Even if it's Poulan with Husky guts, it is still not a "Pro" Husqvarna... it's from the "consumer" line. But still, for $200 you can get a brand new Poulan pro PP5020AV and it's all Husky in Poulan clothing. It's getting great reviews.

Slightly older saws like the Poulan Pro 325 and 330, 3300, 3450, 3750, 380 are also 100% Husqvarna inside.

EDIT: The Poulan Pro 325 is the exact same saw as a Jonsered 525 (52cc) just different color. 100% made in Sweden.


----------



## ZoomZoom

Husqvarna used to make some pro saws that were 46cc and under that were good. E.g. 338XTP. They're good for limbing but wouldn't want to actually cut trees down with them.


----------



## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> Husqvarna used to make some pro saws that were 46cc and under that were good. E.g. 338XTP. They're good for limbing but wouldn't want to actually cut trees down with them.


"Top Handle" saws designed for professional tree trimmers and arborists, I left out by default since they are not what a common person buys.


----------



## ZoomZoom

LincTex said:


> "Top Handle" saws designed for professional tree trimmers and arborists, I left out by default since they are not what a common person buys.


I like the "Top Handle". It allows me to hold my beer in the other hand.  :nuts: 

I normally drive a Husky 365 or 372XP but they're pretty heavy to swing around at my old age for removing everything off the log. After I fell it _with one of the bigger saw_ I grab the 338 to do the limb work then back to the big saw for bucking.


----------



## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> I grab the 338 to do the limb work ...


The Husky 338 is a true professional saw, made in Sweden.

It is NIGHT AND DAY different than the Husqvarna 240 (also 38cc) which is 100% Poulan and is pure junk. None of it's internals are made in Sweden.


----------



## smaj100

I use and have been running 2 husqys and love them. Ive had to replace a few parts on the 455, but its 5yo and been running it fairly hard for years. I even run the 455 with an 18" bar and ripping chain on a beam machine. It is time consuming but the saw handles it well and keeps on chugging. The 455 hasn't found anything it cant get me through. The wife swings a smaller 14 husky and i carry that when im felling trees in case something gets pinched or bound up.


----------



## LincTex

I have been wanting to replace my Husqvarna 45 for quite a few years (it's almost 30 years old, though!) I bought a new Jonsered CS 2245 from Tractor Supply because I got a gift card from work. I really wanted the 38 or 40 so my stepson could start helping with firewood... my bigger saws are just too much for him.

I didn't know about the Poulan guts until I started researching it a bit. The 2238 and 2240 are Tractor Supply exclusive and are just red Poulan junk (like the Husky 240). 

The 2245 is actually made in Sweden, so I bought it. Jumping up to the 2250 or 2255 were way to much money... and I already have enough saws in that size range. 

I'm in the process of cleaning up and fixing the ol' Poulan Pro 221 (42cc) just for grins. It was never a great saw at all, but it has so few hours on it I wanted to at least have it ready to sell when we have the next big windstorm. When trees fall after a big storm is when all my "cull" saws go on Craigslist!! (including ol' betsy Husky 45). I also have an older Stihl 028 Wood Boss (not a Super or Super AV or else I'd keep it) that will also be for sale.


----------



## Woody

LincTex said:


> I have several answers:
> 
> 1) It seems anything over 46cc is a sure thing. The 46cc saws themselves can be hit and miss and are a combo of such, usually a Swedish crank, rod & piston/cylinder with the rest of the parts a mix. It looks like under 46cc on older Poulans is "all Poulan" only.
> 
> 2) Husky has pro saws, and NOT pro saws.
> The under-45cc Husky saws (38cc, 40cc) are going to kill Husky's good name because it's ALL Poulan underneath (the other way around, Poulan in Husky or Jonsered Clothing) and those small "consumer" saws are already giving Husky/Jred a bad name for being a crappy saw.... With new Jonsereds and new Huqvarnas, 45cc is the cut-off point.
> 
> 3) Even if it's Poulan with Husky guts, it is still not a "Pro" Husqvarna... it's from the "consumer" line. But still, for $200 you can get a brand new Poulan pro PP5020AV and it's all Husky in Poulan clothing. It's getting great reviews.
> 
> Slightly older saws like the Poulan Pro 325 and 330, 3300, 3450, 3750, 380 are also 100% Husqvarna inside.
> 
> EDIT: The Poulan Pro 325 is the exact same saw as a Jonsered 525 (52cc) just different color. 100% made in Sweden.


Linc!!! You seem to have great knowledge of lots of newer saws, mind taking a bit to answer a few questions?

It's been a looong time since I worked for a living in the woods and have had the Stihl 045 for so long that, it is just what a chainsaw is to me. Heavy, boxy and powerful.

The Huskies we had in the 70's were light, slim cutting little bastages. But, you needed to keep the RPM's screaming for them to perform. If the RPM's started to get low, or the saw bogged, you'd have to back off, get them back up then go screaming back into the cut. Is that still the same today? You mentioned the Poulan's have the same guts, so same there also? When you get to production size saws, do they have more power without the RPM's?

How about rakers? Can you give the new saws another stroke or two without having them grab? Or does the new 'kick back' crap on new chains take care of that? I still have several chains I made for the 18" (or is it 16?) and 24" bars way back when, so haven't ever used them.

I was just curious. I remember the Huskies sounding like a mosquito, HIGH pitched noise, while the Homolights and Stihls were more of a low roar.


----------



## LincTex

Woody, there's a lot of stuff I can say that's just going to come out as a generality, so here goes....

All of the manufacturers have had to "step up to the plate" to meet the _four-fold chainsaw dilemma_: Weight, Power, Reliability, and cost - you can only choose three of the four!

The really high end saws are light, powerful and reliable, but not cheap. These are the "Pro" Stihl, Husqvarna, and some Makita (Dolmar) and Echo.

The mid grade saws are very reliable but sometimes sacrifice a little power or weight to help keep the cost down. 
Same brands as listed before, but the "lower cost" model line. The Poulan 5020AV is the cheapest of these.

The low grade saws are typically light and cheap - - and powerful "enough" on the ones that are reliable (Like my CS2245 and Husq 445).... and the ones that are cheap and perform with really good power have bad reliability (RedMax, Cub Cadet, Remington - all made in China/Taiwan) Enough said about that!

You asked specifically about RPM, and 20 years ago it was still true - The Husq's screamed and the Stihls growled.

Because it's become SUCH a competition to build a saw that's light, powerful and reliable - the differences between them have blurred a LOT. They pretty much all "tach out" around 12,000 RPM now.

The machining tolerances and materials have advanced so much over the years that there's not so many differences between them anymore except for cost... and you get what you pay for (for the most part).

When it comes to cost, many folks can't justify the cost of "Pro" grade saws. Like the 50cc-55cc range (most popular for firewood cutters)... you can get a Poulan 5020 for $139 (as a "refurb"), or a new Husq 455 or Jonsrd 2255 or Stihl MS271 all for about $350-$400 or so. I think the Echos are a little less. "Pro" models in this size range seem to run closer to $800 anymore.

Another one of the biggest reasons saws seem so similar anymore is for *emissions*. Yes, the good ol' EPA (gotta love 'em







) has been trying to DESTROY all chainsaw manufacturers for years now!! (and all 2 strokes). Sooo, you'll hear new buzzwords like "Strato-Charged" and such. All of the main saw makers are now trying to make saws that will run on leaner mixtures (for emissions) without burning the pistons down. It's been a big challenge to make strato-charging work, but it needs RPM's to work.

sooooo.... pretty much ALL "new" saws that meet "new" emissions regs...








...are now *all* high-RPM models.


----------



## LincTex

Chains are something that can get into "too long" of a discussion.

Typically, the stuff you find "hanging on the hook" at Lowe's, Home Depot, walmart, etc is all "safety chain" crap. Sure, it'll cut wood.... eventually.

Folks that are always asking for more HP with big bore kits, muffler mods, bigger carbs, etc... will always find faster cutting if they just buy a DECENT chain!! 

Now, of course... the better, more aggressive chains do require more care and vigilance - because they are more of everything good, performance wise - and that does make them a little more dangerous. 

But you shouldn't own a chainsaw in the FIRST PLACE 
if you aren't a careful person.... but, since idiots won't listen, 
and lawyers speak loudly - - - low-end "box store" chainsaws all have "safety chain" on them. It takes a whole lot of grinding down to make a safety chain NOT a safety chain.


----------



## LincTex

"Sharp Advice For Chainsaw Owners"

http://www.msuextension.org/forestry/archives/FMC2011/Sharp_Advice.pdf


----------



## Woody

Thank You Linc!!! They were short and to the point, great.

What I get out of it is that I should be looking for an 045 (non AV model) to grab parts from, maybe two. And also keep my eye out for an old NOS or partial roll of Oregon chain.

I guess like older woodstoves that are ugly but really heat, we'll be sniffed out and charged with crimes for having such monstrosities. Planned obsolescence was only beginning to come into vogue in the 70's.


----------



## Cotton

A quick side note for those interested&#8230; I own a Granberg Bar-Mount Chain Saw Sharpener, Model# G-106B available at Northern Tool (logging section) ($25). http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_logging+chain-saw-chain-sharpeners-maintenance

I sharpen fairly well free hand. I noticed a few years ago after sharpening 5 or 6 times my saw will always pull to the left just a little. It's the way I sharpen, my fault.

I found this tool in a catalog, it's incredible. Its manual, no electricity and allows me to set the file angle in 3 different axis. It will bring a chain back to perfect factory condition. Accommodates any file size. It will also allow me to tweak the angles for more aggressive cuts. For folks like me who aren't freehand daVinci's, this sharpener is a gem! 

Edit, to be fair it is a little difficult to figure out at first. But once you figure out how to use it! Amazing results!


----------



## LincTex

Dakine said:


> www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews
> The Husqvarna 240e was one of a couple that they rated 5 stars
> 
> Any thoughts/suggestions?


That shot my opinion of "Popular Mechanics" all to hell....

The small "200" Husqvarnas (235 and 240) are rapidly getting worse and worse reviews as time goes on.

Avoid one at all costs - many dealers are now refusing to work on them! They are "Poulan Only" inside. The ONLY things they share with the "Real" Husqvarna chainsaws are color and name. Nothing is made in Sweden at all.

.
.
.

well....
My curiosity finally got the best of me. I now have a Poulan Pro PP5020AV on it's way to me. 

$73 and in perfect condition, made in Sweden. :2thumb:

All reviews on it so far are great. If I think it needs to stay at its new home, I may be tempted to sell off one or two of my nicer saws. The Husky 51 for sure will go bye-bye... since I also picked up a really nice 028 Super AV! (and it's CHERRY - - this one I shall never ever ever *ever* sell!!)
artydance:

We'll see.....


----------



## Tirediron

I broke all the chain sharpening rule and used a thin cut off disk in a 4 1/2" grinder on a almost worn out chain to cut some dirty old bridge deck (hey it all makes heat, I think that I am going to make a guide for the grinder, it is quick and it works well. 

My son decided that we should try an old power hacksaw, that was/is a lot better idea, a pretty course hacksaw blade doesn't mind the odd spike. 

Most of the things I do should come with "Shelby" from axemen warning (Don't ever try this , don't ever do it)


----------



## zombieresponder

goshengirl said:


> That's what I told hubby I wanted (I learn so much here on PS :congrat.
> 
> Jason, I'm a little intimidated regarding sharpening a chain myself, but I do need to learn. I need to learn how to sharpen everything! UJ, if you've toasted a couple chains while learning, then I won't be too hard on myself when I do the same (and probably more than a few...)


Buy a file guide like the Granberg mentioned below, and set it to the recommended angles for the chain you're sharpening. One caveat: Stihl chain is harder than woodpecker lips. You will wear out files regularly and it will take more time to sharpen. I don't mind hand filing chain, but I hate filing Stihl chain. The upside is that it will usually hold an edge slightly longer than other brands, and it's pre-stretched.



Viking said:


> What's the model number for the Husky saws that are under the Poulan names?


Husqvarna, or the parent company of Husqvarna, owns Jonsered, Poulan, Redmax, and several other brands. Husky and Jonsered both have professional and homeowner grade saws. Redmax did make good pro style saws. The rest are now just homeowner grade. They will cut a lot of wood if cared for, but they will not hold up to heavy use.



Cotton said:


> A quick side note for those interested&#8230; I own a Granberg Bar-Mount Chain Saw Sharpener, Model# G-106B available at Northern Tool (logging section) ($25). http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_logging+chain-saw-chain-sharpeners-maintenance
> 
> I sharpen fairly well free hand. I noticed a few years ago after sharpening 5 or 6 times my saw will always pull to the left just a little. It's the way I sharpen, my fault.
> 
> I found this tool in a catalog, it's incredible. Its manual, no electricity and allows me to set the file angle in 3 different axis. It will bring a chain back to perfect factory condition. Accommodates any file size. It will also allow me to tweak the angles for more aggressive cuts. For folks like me who aren't freehand daVinci's, this sharpener is a gem!
> 
> Edit, to be fair it is a little difficult to figure out at first. But once you figure out how to use it! Amazing results!


I concur with this. I had an oregon file guide. It was junk and ended up having a date with a ball peen hammer. The Granberg is a much better tool. There are also other file guides that work fairly well. Husqvarna and Stihl both make a decent one, but neither are adjustable for different angles. In the case of filing the depth gauges(rakers), the tool Husky markets is much better IMO.

As far as saws go, everyone will have their preferences. Personally, I happen to think that the best saw is the one that starts, runs, and does the job I need to do when I need it done. I have saws from just about every maker, most of them are older saws, and in some cases I'd rather pull out the old "slow" saw since it will outwork a newer "fast" saw. As an example, I've got a 30-40 year old 60cc professional grade McCulloch that might get used instead of a much newer homeowner grade Stihl MS290. The old Mac has more guts and will keep chugging along while the Stihl wheezes and stalls. The stihl turns a lot more RPM and has more chain speed, but less torque. It will cut faster, but not if you're heavy handed. That said, in some cases comparing new to old is not particularly valid. An example would be comparing an old, well used pro saw to a new one. The old saw may be down on power due to wear. As an aside since I saw them mentioned, the old husky 50 to 61 series saws had a very poorly designed air filter/carb mount/intake system. Most problems with them can be attributed to that. Even with that fault, they were still pretty good when everything was right.

I recently bought a homeowner grade Jonsered CS2245 at tractor supply for $75. It was a customer return(defective purchaser, not a defective saw) that was almost unused. To make a long story short, it doesn't have the power I expected. Frankly, I didn't expect a lot from a 45cc homeowner saw, but for what one costs new, I think it's still underpowered. The same goes for the Stihl equivalent MS250(which I also have). This Jonsered model is the same as a Husky 345, just wears different plastics. On the other hand, my Husky 350(also homeowner grade) is a surprisingly strong saw. I probably use it more than any other.

Whatever you use, buy some safety gear and keep your chain sharp. Kevlar chaps and eye protection are a lot less expensive than an ER visit.

Edit: Husqvarna branded chain is just rebadged oregon chain, don't waste money buying it instead of oregon. Given a choice, I'll buy oregon chain over Stihl. It also makes a difference which type of chain you're using. Semi chisel style chain will hold an edge longer, but it doesn't cut as fast as round ground full chisel. I have read that square ground full chisel cuts even faster, but it requires different files to sharpen and as far as I know, no one makes a reasonably priced file guide.


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## Tirediron

If you buy Stihl chain, buy Stihl files, infact if you buy files buy Stihl files.

I have found Oregon chain too stretchy on hi powered saws, but my small saw is a husky 372.


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## cowboyhermit

Sharpened countless Stihl chains by hand, never had trouble, hard chain is a good thing to say the least but of course you need an even harder file.

Now, a carbide chain, don't even think you will sharpen it by hand, just don't


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> As far as saws go, everyone will have their preferences. Personally, I happen to think that the best saw is the one that starts, runs, and does the job I need to do when I need it done...


Which I why I typically buy & use Stihl (mid/pro) and Dolmar/Makita. They are a little more money, but I don't like having saws break when I need them. I do have a few others... more later on that



zombieresponder said:


> I have saws from just about every maker, most of them are older saws, and in some cases I'd rather pull out the old "slow" saw since it will outwork a newer "fast" saw. As an example, I've got a 30-40 year old 60cc professional grade McCulloch that might get used instead of a much newer homeowner grade Stihl MS290. ...


*Are you serious?!? * 
I used to pay my bills and put food on the table with a Pro Mac 700, with a manual chain oiler and NO anti-vibe.

I tortured myself mercilessly for an entire year with that awfully primitive wood cutting device. I replaced it with a used Stihl 028 AV Super, which was like going from a rusted out 1974 AMC Hornet into a low-mileage Buick Park Avenue. Such a night and day difference.

I generally like all people - - and I would never wish anyone experience the horror of the ol' Mac 10-10 series saws and their variants.... vract:



zombieresponder said:


> The old Mac has more guts and will keep chugging along while the Stihl wheezes and stalls.


This is clear evidence that you have never owned or operated a _good_ Stihl chainsaw. I'll gladly bring a 038 Super or 038 Magnum to cut alongside a Mac 10-10 series saw any day. Even my 028 Super will be very close to keeping up, and it's much smaller cc's than the Mac.

If you want to get REALLY spanked well and hard, then let me bring a MS361 or an 044 Magnum! Even the lowly "1127 series" MS390 will slaughter a Mac 10-10, and with less weight and with less vibrations. There will not be any wheezing or stalling. Try one, you'll agree.



zombieresponder said:


> The stihl turns a lot more RPM and has more chain speed, but less torque.


No, now you are thinking of Husky, Jonsered, & Dolmar/Makita. In almost every "Stihl vs. Husky" conversation, everyone will agree the Stihls are lower RPM and better torque than the others.



zombieresponder said:


> The same goes for the Stihl equivalent MS250 (which I also have).


The MS250 gives Stihl a bad name. 
These are "homeowner" grade saws. Many of them had bad crank bearings and would fail even when "taken good care of".

I also bought a Jonsered CS2245 at Tractor Supply (I paid more than $75 because it was new in the box, but way less than sticker price). I had to buy one of the "spline tools" to adjust the carb right. They are way too lean from the factory with 10% ethanol gas (the only stuff for sale around here). They also take at least 10 hours to break in well. Keep running 40:1 in yours until you have 15 -20 hours on it. Buy the spline carb adjusting tool for $8.96, you WILL need it to get the carb where it really needs to be.



zombieresponder said:


> This Jonsered model is the same as a Husky 345, just wears different plastics.


No, it's the same as the Husky 445.... pretty big difference.



zombieresponder said:


> .On the other hand, my Husky 350(also homeowner grade) is a surprisingly strong saw.


Yes, those are a very good firewood cutting saw!


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> Which I why I typically buy & use Stihl (mid/pro) and Dolmar/Makita. They are a little more money, but I don't like having saws break when I need them. I do have a few others... more later on that
> 
> *Are you serious?!? *
> I used to pay my bills and put food on the table with a Pro Mac 700, with a manual chain oiler and NO anti-vibe.
> 
> I tortured myself mercilessly for an entire year with that awfully primitive wood cutting device. I replaced it with a used Stihl 028 AV Super, which was like going from a rusted out 1974 AMC Hornet into a low-mileage Buick Park Avenue. Such a night and day difference.
> 
> I generally like all people - - and I would never wish anyone experience the horror of the ol' Mac 10-10 series saws and their variants.... vract:
> 
> This is clear evidence that you have never owned or operated a _good_ Stihl chainsaw. I'll gladly bring a 038 Super or 038 Magnum to cut alongside a Mac 10-10 series saw any day. Even my 028 Super will be very close to keeping up, and it's much smaller cc's than the Mac.
> 
> If you want to get REALLY spanked well and hard, then let me bring a MS361 or an 044 Magnum! Even the lowly "1127 series" MS390 will slaughter a Mac 10-10, and with less weight and with less vibrations. There will not be any wheezing or stalling. Try one, you'll agree.
> 
> No, now you are thinking of Husky, Jonsered, & Dolmar/Makita. In almost every "Stihl vs. Husky" conversation, everyone will agree the Stihls are lower RPM and better torque than the others.
> 
> The MS250 gives Stihl a bad name.
> These are "homeowner" grade saws. Many of them had bad crank bearings and would fail even when "taken good care of".
> 
> I also bought a Jonsered CS2245 at Tractor Supply (I paid more than $75 because it was new in the box, but way less than sticker price). I had to buy one of the "spline tools" to adjust the carb right. They are way too lean from the factory with 10% ethanol gas (the only stuff for sale around here). They also take at least 10 hours to break in well. Keep running 40:1 in yours until you have 15 -20 hours on it. Buy the spline carb adjusting tool for $8.96, you WILL need it to get the carb where it really needs to be.
> 
> No, it's the same as the Husky 445.... pretty big difference.
> 
> Yes, those are a very good firewood cutting saw!


I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, but frankly, a number of your assumptions are incorrect. I do own and sometimes use Stihl's like the 038AV. I've got an 038 Mag and a 10mm 044, among others, out in the shop waiting on me to rebuild them too. I've even got a Husky 394xp that comes out when there's big wood to be cut. I used it a couple of weeks ago on a large elm and had to cut from both sides with a 32" bar. You are correct on the Jonsered/Husky number swap, I don't know why I mixed that up. While I'm thinking about it, the previous generation of this series of Jonsereds, like their husky counterparts, could swap oilers. I was pretty disappointed when I discovered that I couldn't swap in an adjustable oiler from the 2250 to the 2245. The 2250 doesn't have an adjustable oiler either. 

*All* of the Stihl homeowner grade saws are poorly constructed, overweight, and underpowered in my opinion. The same is generally true for the Husky and Jonsered equivalents. That includes saws like the MS290/310/390 which also have a plastic "crankcase" and are assembled almost identically to a $100 walmart Poulan. I can post pics of that if you'd like. I have a box of 1127 series parts, and a couple of disassembled poulans. 

The Pro Mac 700 did not have antivibe and was just a larger displacement 10-10(which is 54cc and has an auto oiler, btw...except the 10-10S, which was 57cc I believe). The 700 had manual _and_ auto oilers, just like the 10-10. I believe I would have sprung for an SP80 or SP70 over the 700 if I was making a living cutting wood. My Mac SP60 does have antivibe(as do the larger SP70 and SP80) and doesn't leave your hands numb. I don't have to pump the manual oiler either. As far as a 50ish cc saw doing anywhere near the work of a 70cc saw...not happening. Unless you were cutting limbwood or the 700 was worn smooth out, I ain't buying it. It's like saying a nova with a 283 will post better quarter mile times than a Chevelle with a 396. 

My reference of rpm and chain speed was a comparison between old Macs and new Stihls. Most of the Macs in the 10-10 era didn't turn but around 8k, maybe 10k, rpm. The 1127 series Stihls are, per Stihl's service manual, 12,500 to 13,000 rpm. *All* modern saws turn more rpm and have higher chain speeds than the ones made 30 years ago.

I already have all of the carb adjusting tools :2thumb:, and unlike the original purchaser of the 2245, I didn't dump an entire bottle of 2 cycle oil in the fuel tank. I guess they must have thought it oiled the chain with the fuel mix, since the oil tank was bone dry. The tag stated that it didn't run or oil the chain. :rofl: Right now it's running fat and on 40:1. If I keep it(no need, really), it will get retuned after it's broken in. That said, I predict it will still be an underpowered homeowner grade saw. :beercheer:

As far as the 10-10 goes, it was and still is a _decent_ saw. Far from great, but definitely far from junk too. My uncle still occasionally uses the last one my grandfather bought new in the mid 70's, shortly before he passed away. It still puts wood on the ground and in the stove, with little more than normal maintenance. I'd say that's pretty good for a 40 year old saw, and far better than today's consumer grade saws will fare 40 years from now.


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## chigger digger

I have a stihl 028 super that just gave up the ghost after cutting at least 4 cords of oak firewood every year for 25 years ! the first year ( when we were both young ) I cut and sold 19 cords .I replaced it with a 271 ,,,,,,,we'll see , but the days of cutting wood from dawn till dusk are over for me LOL


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## LincTex

chigger digger said:


> I have a stihl 028 super that just gave up the ghost ,,,,,,,


Shoot me a price on what you think you'd like to get for it.....


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## zombieresponder

chigger digger said:


> I have a stihl 028 super that just gave up the ghost after cutting at least 4 cords of oak firewood every year for 25 years ! the first year ( when we were both young ) I cut and sold 19 cords .I replaced it with a 271 ,,,,,,,we'll see , but the days of cutting wood from dawn till dusk are over for me LOL


Not sure what you mean by "gave up the ghost", but those saws are well worth spending a few bucks to rebuild. Seems like the last time I looked, a fellow could get a high quality aftermarket piston and cylinder kit for $150 or less. Here's an example: http://www.weedeaterman.com/product_p/h30028.htm What I've seen of the Hyway brand has been good.


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## BF1911

I've had Stihl, Poulan and Husqvarnas. My Poulan is dead, Stihl is dead (VERY early on) I have two Husqvarnas and they're really good saws. Even if I haven't started them in months, they usually crank up after a few pulls. I'm not saying Stihl or Poulans aren't good saws, I know A LOT of people use them. I just had bad luck with one.


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## Balls004

I work on both Stihl and Husqvarna chainsaws at the equipment company I work for. From a mechanics view, I tend to slightly favor Stihl over the Huskies, but only because Stihl's are a little easier to work on. They are both pretty dependable if used properly and _maintained properly_. Most failures I see are caused by the operator, not the equipment. Leave old gas in one, use raw gas once, you'll be in to see me soon.

My best advice is to use a premium gas mix, or one of the available canned premixes, and run the saw dry before you put it up.


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## koldsteel

Balls004, I just jack up my MS190 w raw gas. I've found rebuild kits for that model. Is that a valid option or would I do best to purchase another saw ? I'm pretty good mechanically but wasn't sure if I had to crack apart the housing to repair. I haven't looked closely at the saw yet.


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## ZoomZoom

koldsteel said:


> Balls004, I just jack up my MS190 w raw gas. I've found rebuild kits for that model. Is that a valid option or would I do best to purchase another saw ? I'm pretty good mechanically but wasn't sure if I had to crack apart the housing to repair. I haven't looked closely at the saw yet.


A friend just did something similar. He got new parts from China on e-bay for cheap (like $30) and said the chainsaw has worked flawlessly since.


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## hashbrown

I really hate to tell anyone this story but I guess I will. A couple of years ago my 026 came up missing. I blamed everyone I knew for taking it, borrowing it, stealing it. Well skip forward to this year, I go to cut some wood in a spot a rarely go on our place I walk over the hill and there's my damn saw right where it had ran out of gas. I got to thinking about it, I had a truck load of wood cut and when the saw ran out of gas I decided to split and load what I had and call it a day. I had to install a new fuel line and chain and I was back in business. My Grandfather always blamed everyone else when he lost things, guess this is just the beginning. :nuts:


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## Cotton

Too funny! :rofl: I'm like that with specific items... Brings to mind an old revolver I own. It disappears all the time. Once for 2 years... I put a new shelving unit in the kitchen. It partially blocked a drawer.

2 years later and after many fruitless searches... I did a major spring cleaning and moved the shelving unit... I'll be darned, there was that old pistol hiding in the back of that drawer!


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## Tirediron

Balls004 said:


> I work on both Stihl and Husqvarna chainsaws at the equipment company I work for. From a mechanics view, I tend to slightly favor Stihl over the Huskies, but only because Stihl's are a little easier to work on. They are both pretty dependable if used properly and _maintained properly_. Most failures I see are caused by the operator, not the equipment. Leave old gas in one, use raw gas once, you'll be in to see me soon.
> 
> My best advice is to use a premium gas mix, or one of the available canned premixes, and run the saw dry before you put it up.


From what I have seen Stihl has at least some warranty reps that like to deny warranty on new pro saws claiming improper oiling (like not using mixed gas, except in all of these cases several pro saws were fueled out of the same jug and the rest were still running fine, premium fuel mixed with Stihl oil. I know of at least one guy who has switches to husky because of this, and it will effect my own choice when I buy my next saw. If I had to buy premium gas to run my husky 372 pro saw it would be a royal pain, it gets the same dyed farm gas as the rest of our gas engines, it has worn out several chains, gets worked hard and does fine, although we are at a fairly high altitude. maybe premium would be necessary at lower elevations, I have seen premium dyed gas at card locks at lower elevations in logging areas, so I guess there must be a large enough market.


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## zombieresponder

Tirediron said:


> From what I have seen Stihl has at least some warranty reps that like to deny warranty on new pro saws claiming improper oiling (like not using mixed gas, except in all of these cases several pro saws were fueled out of the same jug and the rest were still running fine, premium fuel mixed with Stihl oil. I know of at least one guy who has switches to husky because of this, and it will effect my own choice when I buy my next saw. If I had to buy premium gas to run my husky 372 pro saw it would be a royal pain, it gets the same dyed farm gas as the rest of our gas engines, it has worn out several chains, gets worked hard and does fine, although we are at a fairly high altitude. maybe premium would be necessary at lower elevations, I have seen premium dyed gas at card locks at lower elevations in logging areas, so I guess there must be a large enough market.


That issue is not limited to Stihl. Most major manufacturers do that. Between the ethanol tainted fuel that is the norm, and stupidly stringent EPA regs that cause manufacturers to put out saws that are tuned lean, lots of 2 cycle equipment ends up with scored pistons/cylinders. MFG's get off easy just blaming it on the end consumer using "bad fuel" or "not enough oil".

Another problem is that some OPE 2 cycle engines are equipped with catalytic converters. This addition, along with the ethanol, increases the operating temperature of the engine. Combine that with the typically lean fuel mix setting on the carb and it's a recipe for failure.

I'm in the process of adding these to all of my equipment. tach/hour meter If a chainsaw(for example) is running lean, the rpm will be higher than mfg specified no load rpm.


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## Balls004

Tirediron said:


> From what I have seen Stihl has at least some warranty reps that like to deny warranty on new pro saws claiming improper oiling (like not using mixed gas, except in all of these cases several pro saws were fueled out of the same jug and the rest were still running fine, premium fuel mixed with Stihl oil. I know of at least one guy who has switches to husky because of this, and it will effect my own choice when I buy my next saw. If I had to buy premium gas to run my husky 372 pro saw it would be a royal pain, it gets the same dyed farm gas as the rest of our gas engines, it has worn out several chains, gets worked hard and does fine, although we are at a fairly high altitude. maybe premium would be necessary at lower elevations, I have seen premium dyed gas at card locks at lower elevations in logging areas, so I guess there must be a large enough market.


I meant premium oil mix, not premium gas. Sorry if it was confusing...

It's a fact of life that the EPA has mandated that all outdoor power equipment conform to some really draconian emissions standards. They are already including micro processors that control the carburetor on saws and other equipment and it's not going to go away anytime soon. The only way to meet those standards is to do the same thing as they did to cars and trucks, lean them out as much as possible.

Look, I'm not saying that any mfg'rs 2 cycle motors don't occasionally fail due to no fault of the owner. I know that when I run a fuel test on the majority of the equipment that has failed, it is either due to raw gas, a 100:1 mix, or old gas. I have had people tell me they put new gas in it before they tried to start it, except the gas mix in the can was a year old or older. Plus, they did not run the saw dry before putting it up for a year. The insides of the carb look like the kitchen sink in a college student's apartment.

When I don't see that on a piece of equipment, and convey that to whichever warranty rep, they very seldom make any noise about warrantying it.


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## zombieresponder

Ran across this by chance and thought it was interesting. I have already switched to using canola oil instead of petroleum based bar oil, but it does have a drawback. http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html

I would say that I've had less chain stretch and undoubtedly better oil flow using canola oil. The downside I've seen is that if you don't clean the bar/chain after using it, and the saw isn't in regular use, the stuff dries almost like a glue on the bar. Chains will be very stiff too. From what I've read, the Stihl "biodegradeable" bar oil is mostly canola oil with some additives. Around here, bar oil and canola are both about $8 a gallon.


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## mosquitomountainman

It's a common practice at home to use vegetable oil for bar oil in chain saws dedicated for quartering large animals. Other than that I'd prefer regular bar oil of the correct viscosity. I have no idea what the film strenght is on vegetable oils compared to bar oil and in our neck of the woods I wouldn't want to wake up and find a grizzly licking off the bar on my chainsaw or destroying the camp trying to get at the cooking oil. I've used old motor oil also (after running it through a paint filter).


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## Tirediron

vegitable oil does not have the film strength to adequately keep the groove lubed in heavy cutting (ie dry fire wood) even fresh motor oil has enough trouble, chain oil is designed to stick to the chain and not wipe off the groove easily, API hypoid gear oil also works, but it really stinks and the anti wiping in it is overkill, although you could mix hypoid with motor oil.

OR save the planet, use vegitable oil and replace twice as many bars and chains Greeny thinking at it's finest.


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## cowboyhermit

Tirediron said:


> vegitable oil does not have the film strength to adequately keep the groove lubed in heavy cutting (ie dry fire wood) even fresh motor oil has enough trouble, chain oil is designed to stick to the chain and not wipe off the groove easily, API hypoid gear oil also works, but it really stinks and the anti wiping in it is overkill, although you could mix hypoid with motor oil.
> 
> OR save the planet, use vegitable oil and replace twice as many bars and chains Greeny thinking at it's finest.


Actually the "bio-based" oils work pretty well, sometimes even better than petroleum versions.

http://www.fs.fed.us/eng/pubs/html/98511316/98511316.html



> ...Canola-based chain-and-bar oil has been extensively tested in Europe. It has excellent lubricating properties and some studies have shown up to 40 percent reduction in consumption without sacrificing bar-and-chain life. Most high quality or "professional" chain saws have sophisticated chain oilers that are more efficient and have the capability of controlling the amount of oil being used (figure 1). Manufacturers and some users claim that there is a potential for extended bar-and-chain life when using canola-based products because it lubricates and adheres to metal better than petroleum-based oils. ...


BUT that is not just veggie oil, it has additives and is processed in very specific ways, it also costs twice as much as regular oil. It does have some drawbacks other than price(hard to find a "winter" version for instance), but I found the stihl product to work very well. Running straight veggie oil will not give the same results as a product designed for the task (neither will engine oil), but it does allow you to add mushroom spores as you cut  
And it is a lot less carcinogenic :dunno:


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## LincTex

mosquitomountainman said:


> I've used old motor oil also (after running it through a paint filter).


It's what I use exclusively.

It's doesn't "stick" to the Chain as much as I'd like - but I've gotten in the habit of letting the chain "freespin" and "oil up" for a couple seconds before a cut, and then doing the same thing immediately after. I put the tip near the end of a fresh cut log, and as soon as I see a little oil hit the face of the log I let off the throttle.

Hypoid Gear Oil would be great to mix in, if I could ever find enough of it.


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## Tirediron

I heat my shop with used oil, I don't mind spending a few bucks on chain oil, it lasts far longer because of the tackiness, and my chains last longer too I am pretty sure, 

I don't always believe the hype about Canola, it has a huge energy footprint already, and add some special chemicals. 

Veggie oil has some nasty properties too but people like to forget these when band wagoning. 

The us and Europe can't agree on which refrigerant is better, the chemical lobby supported R 134 or stabilized propane.


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## zombieresponder

Tirediron said:


> vegitable oil does not have the film strength to adequately keep the groove lubed in heavy cutting (ie dry fire wood) even fresh motor oil has enough trouble, chain oil is designed to stick to the chain and not wipe off the groove easily, API hypoid gear oil also works, but it really stinks and the anti wiping in it is overkill, although you could mix hypoid with motor oil.
> 
> OR save the planet, use vegitable oil and replace twice as many bars and chains Greeny thinking at it's finest.


It's odd that you say that. I have run straight canola oil in my Husky 394xp with a 32" bar when cutting red oak large enough that the bar just barely made it through, and in some cases I had to cut from both sides. With the adjustable oiler set around halfway up, it slung a trail of oil from the bar tip while cutting in the above conditions. I've also had less chain stretch than when I ran bar oil. To me that means there is less heat and less wear occurring. That bar cost me around $130, and I don't expect to replace it anytime soon. Last time I looked at it, there was no evidence at all of it even being used, despite several hours of run time.


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## Tirediron

zombieresponder said:


> It's odd that you say that. I have run straight canola oil in my Husky 394xp with a 32" bar when cutting red oak large enough that the bar just barely made it through, and in some cases I had to cut from both sides. With the adjustable oiler set around halfway up, it slung a trail of oil from the bar tip while cutting in the above conditions. I've also had less chain stretch than when I ran bar oil. To me that means there is less heat and less wear occurring. That bar cost me around $130, and I don't expect to replace it anytime soon. Last time I looked at it, there was no evidence at all of it even being used, despite several hours of run time.


the film strength of canola can change drastically with each batch, because it is a cooking oil and not destined for lubrication and so not really viscosity indexed. I am glad that it did the job for you, but if it is slinging off the chain then the volume used must be a lot higher than you would have used if you had run seasonal chain oil. I have actually found that fir and diamond willow are the hardest cutting woods. 
Maybe Canola destined for warmer climates has higher viscosity than the stuff we get locally. 
I work with a log home builder who has a special formula of chain oil blended to keep the chain/groove alive while not spraying oil along the lateral groove, these guys put a lot of hours on their saws and are very aware of what works and what doesn't,


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## zombieresponder

There isn't a huge amount of it coming off the chain, certainly no more than when I ran conventional bar oil. I did turn the oiler down slightly after switching to canola. I would agree that having something added to make it a little more "sticky" would be an improvement though.

Canola(rapeseed) oil was, and probably still is, used as an industrial lubricant.


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## Born2b

chigger digger said:


> I have a stihl 028 super that just gave up the ghost after cutting at least 4 cords of oak firewood every year for 25 years ! the first year ( when we were both young ) I cut and sold 19 cords source.I replaced it with a 271 ,,,,,,,we'll see , but the days of cutting wood from dawn till dusk are over for me LOL


I'm in the market for new chainsaw. Any good points or bad points? And what models and makes? It will be for logging branches and small trees?? Trying to find quality chainsaw up to $200-$250. Any thoughts?


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## Born2b

Caribou said:


> By small trees do you mean something smaller than six inches or something smaller than six feet across? How much do you plan to use the saw? Are you planning to heat with wood or are you looking for something that will be put aside for months at a time and drug out on rare occasion?


Small trees from 4 to 8 inches. I think the saw will be needed only 2-3 times a month.


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## Born2b

Caribou said:


> Stihl makes a good gas powered chain saw. If you are going to use it for extended periods and on a regular basis this might be a good choice.
> 
> I've got a Kobalt 80V electric cordless chain saw on order that I have hopes for. I won't be using mine much or for very long so an electric with a couple of batteries will do fine and I don't have to worry about old gas or varnish.


Thank you, I think electric chainsaw will be the right choice.


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## RedBeard

Just an fyi as a person who has worked on small engines for the last 20 years i highly recommend echo. Echo is an underrated company who has built some of the best engines for a pile of other companies then they started making their own yard products. Their price for what you get can't be beat. Their warranty is the best in the business. In fact they are used by more pro lawncare companies than sthil or husky. Also Oregon sells a battery powered saw that is down right impressive. Here is their saw:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011...0v+battery&dpPl=1&dpID=41Hz1BdnVuL&ref=plSrch

Here is some of their other products:
https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...MIipOn9ZyJ1wIVBEGGCh0oSQRREAAYASAAEgLfB_D_BwE


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## phideaux

I have been heating with wood for over 20 years.

I have had ALL the brands of Chainsaws, 
Been in several of the Mfg's plants.

I nailed it down , about 15 years ago, to Echo.

Best all around , chainsaw I have ever owned. 
Only owned 2 of them a big one and a small one....can't wear them out, and 2 pulls every time , it's running.


Always run them with 93 octane gas, and echo 2 cycle oil. 
Tried 87 octane once.... never again.



Jim


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## RedBeard

phideaux said:


> I have been heating with wood for over 20 years.
> 
> I have had ALL the brands of Chainsaws,
> Been in several of the Mfg's plants.
> 
> I nailed it down , about 15 years ago, to Echo.
> 
> Best all around , chainsaw I have ever owned.
> Only owned 2 of them a big one and a small one....can't wear them out, and 2 pulls every time , it's running.
> 
> Always run them with 93 octane gas, and echo 2 cycle oil.
> Tried 87 octane once.... never again.
> 
> Jim


You nailed it down! Where sthil is a lowend torque saw and husky is a high rpm horsepower saw echo is both. They turn the rpms of husky and have the grunt of sthil. I lived in ct for about 5 years and i sold echo down there, a ton of them, my shop was full of sthils and huskys with problems. The echos were carb tunings and chain sharpings. Echos warranty is awesome and their people are awesome. We had a customer who had bought a ton of echos from us (lawn care guy) and his hedge clipper gear box gave out a few days after the warranty ended. For grins we called echo and told them the deal. They said no problem we will send him a new gear box. I was amazed. But when we got it in and opened the box it was the new gear box along with their newest (crazy sharp) blades design. Then a yearish later we sold a guy their smallest backpack blower. When we sell something we take it off the wall and gas it up then start it, make sure its good. Then we go over it with the customer. Well he went home and used it till the tank was empty and gassed it up with straight gas. Used about a 1/4 of it and then shut it off because it was loosing power. Impressive i thought, thats a pretty good amount of time on straight gas! So he brought it down to us. First thing i notice when he sets it on the counter is the gas looks clear in the tank. I say nothing. He says what i said above, used it, gassed it, ran, no power. So i open the cap, tada straight gas. Pull it over almost no compression. My boss for fun calls echo. Tells them the deal. I hear my boss say "are you serious? Ok thank you very much i will tell him.". He hangs up and turns to me and says "they said this is a one time thing but give him a new one.". Couldn't believe it! So i did and hammered the customer about mixed gas. He was tickled pink. Not only is echo one of the best brands they are good to their customers and to their dealers. On that note DO NOT buy an echo from home depot! They have cheaper carbs on them and are different. They will work but will cost more to fix. Buy from a dealer if you can and just so people know echo sets the dealer pricing and even top dealers only make about 18 bucks tops on a sale. If you ever have a problem with an echo dealer call echo directly, they want happy customers.


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## Tirediron

I will have to look into an echo next saw, they are a couple of pounds heavier than a Husky, I won't buy a Stihl because they never cover warranty. Echo doesn't publish hp ratings either, how do they compare to the other orange saws??


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## RedBeard

What husky model were you looking at? Do you cut alot of wood? What size bar you like to run? You cut alot on the pile or mostly cutting down trees?


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## sewingcreations15

We run with 2 chainsaws a Stihl 251 for smaller stuff and a 661 for larger stuff and find them both good. We cut a lot of firewood here as we are on total wood heating in the winter.


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## RedBeard

sewingcreations15 said:


> We run with 2 chainsaws a Stihl 251 for smaller stuff and a 661 for larger stuff and find them both good. We cut a lot of firewood here as we are on total wood heating in the winter.


Stihl makes a good saw. They jave very good low end grunt. I love the older ones though. The new ones with the new fuel injection cost way to much to fix, along with the fact you need a laptop to tune the carb, no thanks. I have also heard alot of the pros complaining about the new stihls. Right now in my area old tech stihls are going for as much as the new ones because the loggers and such don't want the new headaches.


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## phideaux

I got rid of my Stihl 029 Farmboss , because they wiggled out of a warranty repair, tried saying it was my fault.

I've never had to use my Echo warranty in 15 years.


Jim


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## terri9630

What do y'all think of the Husqvarna?


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## bountyhunter26

Husky is a good saw. I still use a 3400 POULAN that I have had for 20 years. It still cranks and runs and cuts so I don't complain.


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## Tirediron

I have a 372 and a couple of 2100 huskys, I want a solid pro saw that can survive log building, cutting lateral groves works a saw for a long time, some guys get an extra barrel gasket put in to lower the compression a bit.


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## RedBeard

Husky makes a great saw. Most people who don't like them are used to the low end power of a stihl. Husky is a high end rpm saw. They cut best when screaming. Im rebuilding a 372xp right now that has over 3000 cord on it. Yes that isn't a typo 3000 cord. It's getting a husky factory big bore kit. Can't wait!


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## RedBeard

Tirediron said:


> I have a 372 and a couple of 2100 huskys, I want a solid pro saw that can survive log building, cutting lateral groves works a saw for a long time, some guys get an extra barrel gasket put in to lower the compression a bit.


Barrel gasket? Do you mean cylinder base gasket? Why on earth would you want to lower the compression? Besides making it easier to start that only takes power away. Then you would have to port match.


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## RedBeard

Oh and fyi johnsered is a husky! Both mind you are owned by Electrolux the vacuum cleaner company.


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## RedBeard

bountyhunter26 said:


> Husky is a good saw. I still use a 3400 POULAN that I have had for 20 years. It still cranks and runs and cuts so I don't complain.


Those old green poulans were great!


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## Tirediron

RedBeard said:


> Barrel gasket? Do you mean cylinder base gasket? Why on earth would you want to lower the compression? Besides making it easier to start that only takes power away. Then you would have to port match.


When making a 30 foot lateral cut the chamber gets pretty hot, the port locations don't change, they are fixed to the cylinder.
I just run a bit fatter mixture and ad a bit more oil and don't lean on the saw doing lateral cuts.
Big bore kits are fun, we had some big bore 2100s those things had serious power, but no vibration damping in the handle mounts.


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## RedBeard

Tirediron said:


> When making a 30 foot lateral cut the chamber gets pretty hot, the port locations don't change, they are fixed to the cylinder.
> I just run a bit fatter mixture and ad a bit more oil and don't lean on the saw doing lateral cuts.
> Big bore kits are fun, we had some big bore 2100s those things had serious power, but no vibration damping in the handle mounts.


Ya that can get hot! So if you change the base gasket by adding another you are in turn changing the port timing, ie the location as to where the piston engages the port. My sleds and jetskis are all port matched and tuned by the base gasket. I also, even on saws port match the scavenge ports. I really wish chain saws didn't make the jug and head one piece. Then i could really make them scream. .


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## crabapple

I have a co-worker who has been cutting & selling firewood for over 30 years.
He has 7 different chainsaws, all of them run.
His best saw is a Jonsered, 18" bar.


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## RedBeard

crabapple said:


> I have a co-worker who has been cutting & selling firewood for over 30 years.
> He has 7 different chainsaws, all of them run.
> His best saw is a Jonsered, 18" bar.


Depending on the year it is that red is actually a husky. I love the old red model 70s. Mean saws!


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## Viking

RedBeard said:


> Just an fyi as a person who has worked on small engines for the last 20 years i highly recommend echo. Echo is an underrated company who has built some of the best engines for a pile of other companies then they started making their own yard products. Their price for what you get can't be beat. Their warranty is the best in the business. In fact they are used by more pro lawncare companies than sthil or husky. Also Oregon sells a battery powered saw that is down right impressive. Here is their saw:
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B011...0v+battery&dpPl=1&dpID=41Hz1BdnVuL&ref=plSrch
> 
> Here is some of their other products:
> https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...MIipOn9ZyJ1wIVBEGGCh0oSQRREAAYASAAEgLfB_D_BwE


I had an Echo back in the mid 1970's, bought it to log beetle killed pine in the mountains of Colorado, that saw had a lot of power, only thing is, it didn't like to run out of fuel, most of the time I couldn't get it to start after re-fueling. I've been using Huskies ever since and yes, they like to run best at high RPM, I had been told by a neighbor that Sthil saws had much better low end power, in fact most logging here in Southern Oregon is done with Sthil saws with Husky being next.


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## RedBeard

UncleJoe said:


> While that may be true, my experience with Echo was rather disappointing.
> 
> I'm in the tree care business and use my saws hard day after day. I can wear out an Echo in a couple years. My oldest saw is a Stihl 046. At 10 years old it still screams through wood like it did on day one and if you're not holding that starter cord tight it will smack you hand because of the high compression. Stihl is the only brand in my trucks.
> 
> No. I don't own a Stihl dealership.


What model echo?


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## RedBeard

Viking said:


> I had an Echo back in the mid 1970's, bought it to log beetle killed pine in the mountains of Colorado, that saw had a lot of power, only thing is, it didn't like to run out of fuel, most of the time I couldn't get it to start after re-fueling. I've been using Huskies ever since and yes, they like to run best at high RPM, I had been told by a neighbor that Sthil saws had much better low end power, in fact most logging here in Southern Oregon is done with Sthil saws with Husky being next.


Eveyone is dropping sthil because of the new technology. The new ones get hooked to a laptop for tuning. They suck. Old ones are big money around here. I buy them used and abused rebuilt them and get about the same money they sold new for. So if my only options are sthil and husky, i prefer husky for cutting trees down due to high rpm horse power (fast cut) and a sthil for cutting on the pile, ie ground because you can drop the saw and the lowend torque will turn right threw it. My dad has an old 044 mag sthil that is an animal on the pile. Takes at least a 372 husky to even try to keep up. But a 372 will cut circles around a sthil when it comes time to fell. Echo in my book gives you the best of both. Good fast saw to cut it down and a lot of low end to chop it up.


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## RedBeard

UncleJoe said:


> I had a couple of them but that was 20+ years ago.
> 
> The climbing saw I believe was a 330? It was worn out after 1 season; no compression left which made for very hard starting. Nothing worse than a saw that won't start when you're up in a tree. The bucking saw maybe 5xx? But honestly, I really can't remember.


330 was a good little saw, but personally if i wouldn't have sold you the 330. Being a pro tree guy i would have sold you the 360. The one problem i have found with echo is dealers don't sell the right saw to the right person. Most of these dealers don't know their product that well or the people they are selling to. I would always ask questions so i knew what they were doing so i could sell them the proper tool. To bad you had a bad experience with echo because they do make a great product. Just out of wonder what did you use for 2 stroke mix in them? Im rather surprised you burned that 330 up so fast. Had it been back to have the carb adjusted? Echo warranty covers carb tuning and most likely no one told tou the second it starts a tiny bit hard to bring it in and have it tuned. As a 2 stroke engine breaks in the pressure in the case will change and that will change the required tuning. If it is a two stroke and it is starting hard bring it in or most likely it is lean on the tuning and can cause damage or even worse. But im probably preaching to the quire here.


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## Tirediron

Just bought my son a Echo CS590 he likes it so far .I like having my Husky 372 XP back
The next smaller Echos we looked at are far more homeowner's saws


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## Meerkat

We have a 14in Poulan Pro, worked good fro about 10 years now cut down lots of hardwood oak trees with it.


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## SheepdogPRS

I don't often use a chain saw except for light trimming and such. I have a 14" electric that is a duplicate of the Harbor Freight 14" electric. It does a great job for its use but I don't fell trees or buck logs. It's used mostly for heavy brush clearing. My brother keeps two saws at the cabin. One is a Sthil and I don't remember what the other is. He fells trees and bucks the logs to fit the wood stove I built for him and then splits them with a wedge. The wood stove is a small one, just 18" wide and 24" high and long. It keeps the cabin at 80 degrees all winter long. It may be just a tad too big as a heat source but it has a cook top so he can use it to cook on. Up at the cabin (5000') there are two seasons, winter and getting ready for winter. Cold temps are below 0F and the daily highs only get into the single digits except for the fall and spring. The ground stays frozen until mid June and winter starts around the middle of August to the first week in September. It is hard to grow much food so he relies on the plants that nature provides. I designed and we built the cabin (A-frame style) to handle three adults and two kids for short stays but it has been added to by my brother to include a laundry room and a root cellar. He has added more solar panels and a porch. It is well insulated and faily well sealed for a cabin.


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## RedBeard

Tirediron said:


> Just bought my son a Echo CS590 he likes it so far .I like having my Husky 372 XP back
> The next smaller Echos we looked at are far more homeowner's saws


Nice! You get it from a dealer or box store?


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## obg12

Went out yesterday and started my 30 year old jonsered 510 on the third pull with year old gas in it,cut up some cherry logs for the smoker then drained out the gas(first time ever) and put it away.If it ever dies I'll be looking for another one by them


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## RedBeard

obg12 said:


> Went out yesterday and started my 30 year old jonsered 510 on the third pull with year old gas in it,cut up some cherry logs for the smoker then drained out the gas(first time ever) and put it away.If it ever dies I'll be looking for another one by them


Nice saw. Rebuilds are cheap and well worth it for that saw.


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