# I'll Come to your place when SHTF



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

http://www.shtfplan.com/conspiracy-...-to-your-place-when-shtf-no-you-wont_10222014



> "I'll Come To Your Place When SHTF" - No You Won't
> 
> Glen Tate
> October 22nd, 2014
> ...





> Glen Tate" (not his real name) is a lawyer and political person in Olympia, the state capitol of Washington State. He was a secret prepper, hiding his activities from his wife - and he wrote the ten-book 299 Days series in secret, too.
> 
> Glen has led an amazing life - and one that took a surprising turn. He grew up poor in the rural logging town of Forks, Washington. He worked hard to become a successful professional with a job in the political arena. Thinking he'd finally made it and everything was great, he was stunned to see how corrupt government is. From his observations at his job, he realized that America is collapsing and bad things are coming. Very soon. He began to prepare for him and his family to make it through the civil unrest of the coming collapse. That meant he had to return to his rural roots - quite a shock to his family and friends. Even more amazing was that he wrote down what he foresees happening during the collapse and it became a ten-book novel series published by Prepper Press.
> 
> ...


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Well said.

I took things a step further and only those invited to my home after SHTF know where we live. Wait! That is just my folks! K's family will just have to figure some other way to survive.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

It is amazing the number of people that think the same way.
I'm sure we would have several family members show up and I am just as sure they would not be welcome to stay.
I will take in my 2 kids and Granddaughter and that's all.
The only exception would be those that show up with enough supplies to support themselves but just need a secure place to stay for a short time.


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## Momturtle (Nov 2, 2009)

Had an acquaintance suggest he come to our place. "If you do you better bring a lot of food and supplies," says I. "But I have guns, I can help you defend your food and supplies" says he. "I have seen you shoot, you better bring a lot of food and supplies."

There are some who will come and some who won't make it here. If there is any use at all for them, most will be pretty welcome. Jamestown rules: No work, no food. Simple and fun.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Momturtle said:


> No work, no food. Simple and fun.


AMEN, to that. It should be a rule for life. That goes for all social programs as well. I understand that many draw disability pensions or welfare because they cannot hold "conventional;" employment for a variety of valid reasons. Still whatever skills and abilities they do have can be utilized somewhere for something. There are huge positive ramifications that come from earning your way, even if it is limited in some way because of your lack of skills or disabilities. There is a way for everyone to contribute to the greater good. Sorry, side tracked off the original thread, but it is one of the hobby horses I feel the occasional need to ride


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Momturtle said:


> Jamestown rules: No work, no food. Simple and fun.





bugoutbob said:


> AMEN, to that. It should be a rule for life.


It depends on the rules that you use for your life. I am not meaning to be preachy, but it is a rule that is a part of many people's lives. It is biblical. I am not meaning to offend, just want to share this. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJ21) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

If and when the welfare system were to go away, and it would in a hearbeat SHTF, you know many will continue on trying to convince any and all why they cannot work.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> It depends on the rules that you use for your life. I am not meaning to be preachy, but it is a rule that is a part of many people's lives. It is biblical. I am not meaning to offend, just want to share this. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJ21) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.
> 
> If and when the welfare system were to go away, and it would in a hearbeat SHTF, you know many will continue on trying to convince any and all why they cannot work.


It takes a lot to offend me. I am a very red necked, evangelical Christian pastor (and ex military). I share the biblical worldview. I do know that many will still try to justify living for free, I am just suggesting that is not the way it should be. The welfare state mentality is nothing new and it perpetuates itself, but the excesses do not negate the principles of helping those in need. Having said that, it should be a hand up not a hand out.


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## gilacr (Dec 30, 2013)

bugoutbob said:


> AMEN, to that. It should be a rule for life. That goes for all social programs as well. I understand that many draw disability pensions or welfare because they cannot hold "conventional;" employment for a variety of valid reasons. Still whatever skills and abilities they do have can be utilized somewhere for something. There are huge positive ramifications that come from earning your way, even if it is limited in some way because of your lack of skills or disabilities. There is a way for everyone to contribute to the greater good. Sorry, side tracked off the original thread, but it is one of the hobby horses I feel the occasional need to ride


I had the honor to meet a young man that had suffered nerve damage due to an IED in Iraq. Even though he had lost the use of both legs, arm amputated and only partial use of his other arm he didn't let those obsticals get in his way, and thats what he called them just obsticals that he could get around. He went back to school and just reciently passed the bar exam. Now thats spirit! A true example of America.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

When TEOTWAWKI your plan is to come to my house?

You will be more then welcome. But just so you know, we will not be home, so bring your own grub and whatever. Assuming some unfriendly hasn't already occupied our house. 

Similar situation. 

We were just married and my worthless "wait on hand and foot" brother-in-law stated he was moving in with us. After all we had a big house with plenty of room (2 story, 4 bedroom house built in the early 1900's. When the winter winds blew the window curtains would flutter).

"No problem", was my reply. "$200 first and last month's rent in advance plus a $200 deposit. You buy and cook your own food. Your Sister will not be waiting on you."

For some strange reason he never move in with us.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> When TEOTWAWKI your plan is to come to my house?
> 
> You will be more then welcome. But just so you know, we will not be home, so bring your own grub and whatever. Assuming some unfriendly hasn't already occupied our house.
> 
> ...


I have met more than one grown man who was still looking for a grown woman to do it all including working outside the home to earn the money and then coming home and doing all the cooking and cleaning and the side benefits while calling himself "the man of the house." Hah, the "man" of the house, IMHO, provides the house or contributes to it and the full functioning life of the household. Some want to be dependents with benefits and power to control.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> I have met more than one grown man who was still looking for a grown woman to do it all including working outside the home to earn the money and then coming home and doing all the cooking and cleaning and the side benefits while calling himself "the man of the house." Hah, the "man" of the house, IMHO, provides the house or contributes to it and the full functioning life of the household. Some want to be dependents with benefits and power to control.


You nailed it.

Brother-in-law was just following his dad's example.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I had another friend give me the "I'll move in with you" line a while back. He was laughing when he said it and commented on how none of his other friends laughed when he told them the same thing. When he glanced over at me he got this perplexed look on his face when he realized that I wasn't laughing either.

I contribute this to the normalcy bias. He is a religious man and was a Mormon for a bit but I don't think he believes that things can go that bad. He is a good man and one that I would trust but I don't have the food to feed him and I'll not watch my wife starve to prove my friendship.


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## Quills (Jun 14, 2011)

I have a standard response to anyone who says they're coming to us: "Great, I'm going to need more slaves for barter! How are your teeth?"

Of course, I've also kept my mouth shut (and taught my family to keep theirs shut, as well) on the extent of my prepping. People know I can food in the fall, but only immediate family (i.e., I'm married to it or gave birth to it) knows what we have stored and where.


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## Tucker (Jul 15, 2010)

Great article. 

I'm lucky. Hubby and I aren't the socializing kind so our stash is a secret. We have 2 friends who are in medical fields - one is a nurse and the other is a veterinarian (and my pets are my children). We have stashed extra in case we need their expertise (we haven't conveyed this to them though) but otherwise we aren't the general store. Get your own stash.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

While I have also tried to be good about OPSEC, I have also tried to prep for more than the immediate family. Those I am prepping for may know nothing at all, or may have had a simple "In event of emergency come to our place". To the extent they can bring supplies, so much the better. If fewer than I have prepped for show up, then we could either take someone else in or stretch our supplies further.

On the other hand if some mere acquaintance shows up thinking I am a soft touch, his only real hope will be if someone I was expecting had not shown and I needed to fill out the group.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

It's not just providing food and shelter for these people. Group dynamics are going to have an effect on the lives of everyone. If you have a prima-donna in the group it causes problems for everyone. Then kicking that person out can be an issue as well. Suppose they're married to your best friend and they have innocent children to feed or shelter? Plus, if you kick them out will they find a group of others to recruit to come back in force to take what you have? This might even be a problem with family members.

Quite frankly, if they've done nothing to prepare and the disaster or whatever is going to take a long time to recover from a person needs to very carefully consider who they take in and why. 

We have some stock feed (corn/wheat) to give to those who come begging. They will be stopped a safe distance away. If they're hungry they'll take it with gratitude. If they're too good for that then they just told me all I need to know about taking them in for better fare.

Life can be hard. It can be even worse for stupid and lazy people. It might be the time to clean out the gene pool a bit.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> It's not just providing food and shelter for these people.
> 
> *Group dynamics are going to have an effect on the lives of everyone.* In times of stress, anyone who has gotten along well before can have a much harder time. Bring in someone who hasn't wanted to do anything to support before will continue to resist IMHO
> 
> ...


These are thoughts similar to those I have had. I think even in a family unit you can expect some of these problems.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

If you have someone in your group who's an idiot you need to prepare ahead. It will be their spouse's job to keep them in line. You tell them that up front. And if they can't behave themselves then the whole family will have to leave. 

You might need to give them some type of speech like this:

"This is our house, our stuff, and our rules. You will do whatever work we assign you. You will not complain or whine or throw a fit. You will not mistreat anyone here, including your spouse and children. We tolerate you only because we love your spouse and your kids. We don't want to have to throw you out to starve if you're a problem. But we WILL do that if you make that necessary. If necessary, your spouse and children will leave with you to starve. We will not be blackmailed by your immaturity, selfishness, and attachment to people we love. You will not be allowed to destroy the morale of our group. The world will NOT revolve around you here. Angry outbursts or crying will not get you your way here. We will NOT walk on eggshells to keep you happy. If we're forced to discuss something with you and we reprimand you, you WILL NOT bring that up 100 times for further discussion. You will not be allowed to behave the way you did in your own house. Three strikes and you're out. Behave accordingly."


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Cool the hogs need food too, or the slave line from Quill's post. There are however some friends who we would help, because they would work and be a positive addition. they would not say we are coming to your place, they would be invited.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

While I indicated I am prepping for more than my immediate family, the folks I have in mind are all people I get along with and care about.

I haven't had anyone joke "I'm coming to your place." If I got that answer from someone I was trying to persuade to prep, I'd probably respond "Okay, just bring a 3 year supply of food with you when you come."


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I think that some would be so hysterical they wouldn't bring what they had, not matter how little. 

Hysteria is what is going to kick many people in the backside.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We've got a pretty good idea who would like to come here. If things were really bad most wouldn't make it. Our intention is to treat the farm as small town, every family has it's own space. We can do that for 4 families straight away. They will work and be paid in goods. They will pay rent by working in the community areas. If they don't work they won't get paid. 

We've had a lot of practice at this with all our labour exchange volunteers over the years. Some work well, some need a push and others will never be of any use to the community. Even the fittest struggle with some of our day to day tasks. They get used to it but it can take a few weeks before they are much use.

I expect people to turn up with nothing except the clothes they are wearing, anything else is a bonus. 

The reality though is if things are so bad people are leaving their homes to come here, they probably won't make it this far.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

BillS said:


> If you have someone in your group who's an idiot you need to prepare ahead. It will be their spouse's job to keep them in line. You tell them that up front. And if they can't behave themselves then the whole family will have to leave.
> 
> You might need to give them some type of speech like this:
> 
> "This is our house, our stuff, and our rules. You will do whatever work we assign you. You will not complain or whine or throw a fit. You will not mistreat anyone here, including your spouse and children. We tolerate you only because we love your spouse and your kids. We don't want to have to throw you out to starve if you're a problem. But we WILL do that if you make that necessary. If necessary, your spouse and children will leave with you to starve. We will not be blackmailed by your immaturity, selfishness, and attachment to people we love. You will not be allowed to destroy the morale of our group. The world will NOT revolve around you here. Angry outbursts or crying will not get you your way here. We will NOT walk on eggshells to keep you happy. If we're forced to discuss something with you and we reprimand you, you WILL NOT bring that up 100 times for further discussion. You will not be allowed to behave the way you did in your own house. Three strikes and you're out. Behave accordingly."


BillS, I have had conversations with people where I had some points that gave them my expectations. My experience is that people will do and say whatever it takes to get in the door, and then want to change it up so that they have things their way. I have had more than one classroom assistant who during the interview process was asked one of my standard questions: "You may have times when you disagree with my decisions. Will you be able to cooperate and take direction from me when this happens?" "Oh, sure I will." I have seen this happen with some of my colleagues as well. *added later* It is easier to get younger adults to cooperate than older people who are used to running their own show.

In my experience, it is easier to really trust my gut that the mouth is not saying what I think they will do. It is easier to not let them in the door than to put them back out it.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't foresee having to make these sorts of judgments. The folks I would include are all folks I have known for a long time. I'm not talking about bringing in a bunch of random people, but friends and family I know now. The only folks I'd consider would be folks I have a good relationship with already.

I wouldn't bring up the topic of prepping with someone unless I knew them well and cared about their safety.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Very few people know we prep, only those who are invited to come & we have prepared to have come. I kinda equate my preps with my finances & I just don't go blabbing about either to random people. I've never understood preppers who told folks about their preps that they aren't prepared to take of & would really rather not shoot SHTF. It just seems silly to take all the time, energy, & effort to prep then put yourself in a horrible situation by blowing it on OPSEC. Putting yourself in a situation where you have to potentially shoot your friends, neighbors, or extended family that show up with their families is the opposite of prepping. Most won't be able to shoot them, will take them in, & end up not having enough for their immediate family. There is no prepping without OPSEC.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

It seems to me that you take a risk on OPSEC every time you bring up the subject. I would only bring up the subject with folks I cared about. So far I haven't had the "I'll just come to your place response" primarily because the discussion has been with folks where that is exactly what I want them to do.

The only way you could get that "I'll come to your place" response is to misjudge whether someone was seriously interested. That could happen, but I haven't had the problem. The only reason I jumped into the thread was it seemed the responses were all in the direction of excluding others, while I have a plan to take in certain people.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Personally, I have never brought this subject with anyone and I do not plan to. I don't talk about prepping with any of my family. I have gotten the attitude over the years and some just think God will be taking care of them. 

I live about 500 miles from my aunt and cousins's land. I could describe many details, but do not want to give too much away. That has always been my choice of BOL, if I need to, and I believe we might need to go someday.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I can relate to that. I've actually changed my stance over time from never discussing the matter to gradually opening up with those I would like to join me in a crisis. It's been a very slow process.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

Has anyone actually read the books that quote is from? I just ordered the first one in Audiobook today but haven't listened yet.


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## Tucker (Jul 15, 2010)

tsrwivey said:


> I've never understood preppers who told folks about their preps that they aren't prepared to take of & would really rather not shoot SHTF. It just seems silly to take all the time, energy, & effort to prep then put yourself in a horrible situation by blowing it on OPSEC. Putting yourself in a situation where you have to potentially shoot your friends, neighbors, or extended family that show up with their families is the opposite of prepping. Most won't be able to shoot them, will take them in, & end up not having enough for their immediate family. There is no prepping without OPSEC.


Ahh. Like the dumb shits who go on Doomsday Preppers? :scratch I don't get that mentality either.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

tsrwivey said:


> Very few people know we prep, only those who are invited to come & we have prepared to have come. I kinda equate my preps with my finances & I just don't go blabbing about either to random people. I've never understood preppers who told folks about their preps that they aren't prepared to take of & would really rather not shoot SHTF. It just seems silly to take all the time, energy, & effort to prep then put yourself in a horrible situation by blowing it on OPSEC. Putting yourself in a situation where you have to potentially shoot your friends, neighbors, or extended family that show up with their families is the opposite of prepping. Most won't be able to shoot them, will take them in, & end up not having enough for their immediate family. There is no prepping without OPSEC.


I don't talk about prepping, I never have but 'everyone' knows what I do because it's my entire life.

Hard to hide when you're a mover and shaker in the world of small farms and independent living. I'm not going to give up on this world even if I think the probability that it might come to an end is pretty high. I'll keep teaching and sharing as long as I can.

Of course what you see here at the farm is not our entire story .


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Coastal said:


> Has anyone actually read the books that quote is from? I just ordered the first one in Audiobook today but haven't listened yet.


What book is it?


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## Quills (Jun 14, 2011)

I don't talk to people about our prepping, but it's kind of hard to hide the huge gardens, livestock, etc., and impossible to miss the fact that during harvest, I'm unavailable for local volunteering, etc., not to mention the fact that I seldom show my face in the local grocery (very basic purchases and only about once a month or so).

People here aren't stupid.

Having said that, while people know we raise most of our own food, they don't know -- or can't be sure -- that we have STORED food for any more than the most recent harvest. That's what people refer to when they tell me they're coming here -- it's due to my canning and baking and gardening ability, not because they know we're preppers, or because we've talked about it to people we're not willing to help.

Even my best friend here hasn't been in my basement store rooms. I haven't been in hers. But I'm pretty sure that they prep, too -- once you're a prepper, it's difficult to not recognize it in others :-D


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## Tribal Warlord Thug (Jan 27, 2009)

i find it very amusing that anyone can even think they have 'OPSEC' when they are online.....part of a preppers forum...continue to participate in 100's if not 1000's of posts.....(come to think of it...its almost like being on that funny show 'Doomsday Preppers...) :teehee: funny peepz ya'll be thinkin' that :nuts: anywayz back to the op.....sure ya can come on inside of my lil' prepperz paradise......i always will have the need to feed my hogs and dogs......:eyebulge:


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

weedygarden said:


> What book is it?


299 days by "Glen Tate"


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't worry so much about OPSEC these days, as I volunteer and give demo's when we have any type of local Emergency Preparedness event. I don't go into specifics about my family's preps, and I don't mention the fact that we have a sizable group. Many times at these events I have had people say that their family would just drop in on me if things go south. I just ask them that if the roles were reversed, what would they do if a stranger and his family showed up at their door expecting to sponge off of them. That's usually the end of that part of the discussion.

Speaking of Doomsday Preppers, at the last meeting of our group we got to joking around about looking into getting on the show. We have 16 adults in our group and we have a good friend that owns two Deuce and a Half's that we would borrow. 

Our premise would be that we didn't have a base or a retreat set up, but rather were planning on raiding those that had appeared on DDP's, and who were opposed to defending their supplies with force. Wow! What a bunch of maroons. ;?)


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Tribal Warlord Thug said:


> i find it very amusing that anyone can even think they have 'OPSEC' when they are online.....part of a preppers forum...continue to participate in 100's if not 1000's of posts.....(come to think of it...its almost like being on that funny show 'Doomsday Preppers...) :teehee: funny peepz ya'll be thinkin' that :nuts: anywayz back to the op.....sure ya can come on inside of my lil' prepperz paradise......i always will have the need to feed my hogs and dogs......:eyebulge:


The folks on this forum are not within walking distance of my home. If someone on this forum is enough of a slueth to figure out where to find me, then they can find a better place.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Coastal said:


> 299 days by "Glen Tate"


BTW: Book 10 is available.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> The folks on this forum are not within walking distance of my home. If someone on this forum is enough of a slueth to figure out where to find me, then they can find a better place.


You're safe from me Geek, NY is the last place I'm going in a SHTF scenario.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

squerly said:


> You're safe from me Geek, NY is the last place I'm going in a SHTF scenario.


You could always try Camden, NJ instead.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> You could always try Camden, NJ instead.


No offense, meant Geek999, but I would not go to NY, NJ, Massachusetts, RI, Connecticut or any place within 100 or even 300 miles of NYC.

Wyoming or Montana? Oh yes!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

weedygarden said:


> No offense, meant Geek999, but I would not go to NY, NJ, Massachusetts, RI, Connecticut or any place within 100 or even 300 miles of NYC.
> 
> Wyoming or Montana? Oh yes!


Until I ecaape it looks like I don't need to worry about this crew showing up!


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> You could always try Camden, NJ instead.


Yep, that too.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Geek999 said:


> the only reason I jumped into the thread was it seemed the responses were all in the direction of excluding others, while I have a plan to take in certain people.


We do too. We prep for our kids & grandkids, a few extended family members, & a friend. None of whom would create a problem in anyway.

We also prep for being able to help out neighbors. We keep extra seed, tools, etc. & plan on having enough animals to give them their own breeding stock.


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## lanahi (Jun 22, 2009)

bugoutbob said:


> There is a way for everyone to contribute to the greater good.


If you have a year's supply of food for you and your family of four and then four more people show up, you now have six months' food for everyone. How will that change if the four extra people help you around the place? You still have six months' food for everyone. The more people who come and "help" means more people to feed and less for your family. If you don't have the food for everyone, you can't feed them, whether they are contributing good things or not.

In a survival situation, it would make a difference in the success of your survival to have extra hands for security, necessary work around the place, specialized skills such as a doctor, etc. But you still have to FEED them. If they cannot help you produce food in exchange for their skills, you can't help each other survive.

The limiting factor is the amount of food you will have for extra people, no matter how valuable they are. If they can help generate more food, great, otherwise not.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

lanahi said:


> If they can help generate more food, great, otherwise not.


That's about what it boils down to.

You can think of it like a business:
You either have net gain or net loss.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

lanahi said:


> The limiting factor is the amount of food you will have for extra people, no matter how valuable they are. If they can help generate more food, great, otherwise not.


There are many limiting factors imo; food, water, shelter, security, energy, etc. Falling below your minimum requirements on *any* of these could be fatal. In many places (certainly Alberta) the only limiting factor on attaining those things is labour.

For example, someone who can't tend to animals or the garden might spend the whole day with a rifle in their hands, quite possibly saving the @ss of those working on the other requirements (and all they stored up). If you are just holed up in your house "for the duration" ... that is a different story, and one that is quite likely to have an unhappy ending.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

lanahi said:


> If you have a year's supply of food for you and your family of four and then four more people show up, you now have six months' food for everyone. How will that change if the four extra people help you around the place? You still have six months' food for everyone...


True.

But if it is spring and a garden can be large enough for 1 year's worth of food (plus) for 8 people. Then the 6 months worth of food on hand will be sufficient and the risk worth taking.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

food is very relative to where you are... I could have a garden in my yard but when the starving masses see plants growing I'm going to have to defend that and it's going to be ugly. That wouldn't be near the problem for people with tall perimeter walls (think Iraqi houses/compounds)

do you have a well and don't have to rely on captured rain water?

are you in a remote area and have a lake near enough to go fishing? is it safe to eat the fish and drink that water? (purified of course)

too many variables


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> True. But if.....


That's a big **if*. *

You have to defend that garden against all threats, (foreign & domestic, LOL) and if you can do that, then good on you.

You'll probably still need more than 6 months of food stored, though...
and that garden really should be big enough to provide 
two years worth of food, so you can cover a bad producing year.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> That's a big **if*. *
> 
> You have to defend that garden against all threats, (foreign & domestic, LOL) and if you can do that, then good on you.
> 
> ...


If you can't defend it with 8 people how could 4 people defend it?


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## Kaytee (Jul 17, 2012)

*Quoting religious texts....*



weedygarden said:


> It depends on the rules that you use for your life. ... 2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJ21) For even when we were with you, this we commanded you: that if any would not work, neither should he eat.


Well, "Padre", I seem to remember other quotes about such things as "whatever you do for the least of My brethren, you do for Me" and something about lilies of the field neither working nor spinning.... And, of course, there's the old "do for others as you would have them do for you". Maybe it was lost in all the translations the Words went through, but I've never heard that the NT said that you only are to help those who "deserve" it, or who are willing/able to pay you back. Sorry, can't name chapters and verses of your Scriptures, nor even the similar quotes from the "84,000" chapters of mine....

If you plan to "hoard" things for yourself and "deserving" family and friends-- that's fine. Really. But why blame "God's Word" for your decision, when there are so many quotes from the same collection that countermand it? Just admit that you don't have the power to save everybody, so you are saving those you can.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Kaytee said:


> Well, "Padre", I seem to remember other quotes about such things as "whatever you do for the least of My brethren, you do for Me" and something about lilies of the field neither working nor spinning.... And, of course, there's the old "do for others as you would have them do for you". Maybe it was lost in all the translations the Words went through, but I've never heard that the NT said that you only are to help those who "deserve" it, or who are willing/able to pay you back. Sorry, can't name chapters and verses of your Scriptures, nor even the similar quotes from the "84,000" chapters of mine....
> 
> If you plan to "hoard" things for yourself and "deserving" family and friends-- that's fine. Really. But why blame "God's Word" for your decision, when there are so many quotes from the same collection that countermand it? Just admit that you don't have the power to save everybody, so you are saving those you can.


Wow! Just wow!

Is name calling necessary?

I was responding to something someone said. One thing. Your non-Christian, narcissistic comments are completely rude and unnecessary and meant to be mean spirited. While you are critiquing other's comments and being critical, at least be able to add the appropriate sources to what you are trying to quote.

Did you know that you can express a different idea or opinion without making your rude, nasty comments, name calling and trying to put someone else down? I would like to suggest that you try this again, next time in a Christian way.

Why make such rude comments? Who are you really serving? What are you trying to prove?


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

Just today I packed up about 50 pounds of pasta for our mooching Mormon relatives who don't have a pantry. They eat out all the time and have no storage.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

SouthCentralUS said:


> Just today I packed up about 50 pounds of pasta for our mooching Mormon relatives who don't have a pantry. They eat out all the time and have no storage.


Mmmm! Dry pasta? I'm coming to your place! Of course, I'll bring all my friends and family, too.

On second thought, I'll stick to my home and if the few people who know what we have show up, we'll put them to work in the garden. We've got about 15 acres to plant between our families here and as people abandon their homes or pass away, we can consider tilling more ground. That food would mostly go to helping others. We help you get started and you tend your crops sort of thing.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

Toffee you have a good plan. The folks I am talking about would not lift a finger and expect to be taken care of in the manner they live now. It won't happen but I won't let them starve if they will eat what I give them. I expect them to trash it.

They spend all their money partying, buying I-thingies and new vehicles and motorcycles. They are LDS in name only.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> If you can't defend it with 8 people how could 4 people defend it?


? 
I don't understand how you came to your conclusion, could you please explain?



Kaytee said:


> Maybe it was lost in all the translations the Words went through, but I've never heard that the NT said that you only are to help those who "deserve" it...


If you go read the entire passage, it is referring to _"able bodied"_ people who COULD do work, but *won't.*

All of the other verses in the Bible about taking care of widows, orphans, etc. etc. all still apply!


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*LincTex, thank you!*



LincTex said:


> ?
> If you go read the entire passage, it is referring to _"able bodied"_ people who COULD do work, but *won't.*
> 
> All of the other verses in the Bible about taking care of widows, orphans, etc. etc. all still apply!


Thank you, LincTex!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Pick a position any position on any subject and someone will attack it most often using some kind of rhetoric. 

Do those too lazy to work go down to the local bank now and demand money from Bill Gates account ('cause he gots lots and should share) ?? Probably not cause they would get to "talk to the law"

I really don't see the difference between the afore mentioned scene and people showing up uninvited for your foresight :scratch


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## Kaytee (Jul 17, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> Wow! Just wow!
> 
> Is name calling necessary? ...
> ... I would like to suggest that you try this again, next time in a Christian way.
> ...


What "name calling"? "Padre"?? That's what I used to call the Christian chaplains I knew in the Navy, and currently, still use to address a friend/colleague who is a retired-but-still working Episcopal priest. The latter also quotes scripture "chapter & verse" to reference reasons for decisions, so you "reminded me" of him, and some of the partially remembered quote fragments I mentioned came from him. I also got them from various literature I've read in the past-- including The New English Bible (cover to cover). Note: I did not say "memorized", nor even "studied". As to the mentioned references from the "84,000" chapters/sutras... I guess one could start with the Pali Canon, find the section on Gautama Buddha's first sermon at Deer Park, go to the part on "the Four Nobel Truths", then within that, the "Eightfold Path", and within that, the "Six Paramitas"-- and start with the first "paramita", "Dana"-- selfless giving. Then check out the Dhammapada. *If* you are interested, these all are available in English, by various translators, ranging from "King James", to formal modern text-book English (with all kinds of footnotes...), to "manga" and other "graphic novel" forms.

As to "trying again in a Christian way".... Not sure what you mean, really.  Especially if you considered being mistaken for a Christian cleric, "rude".

The point I was trying to make... is that people need to take responsibility for *their* decisions. Saying "God told me" is a ... bit... egotistical? schizophrenic? lazy? If you make the decision that you only will gather/store supplies for yourself, immediate family, and a few friends who can help you-- like I said, that's fine-- just "own" that decision. If you feel the need to explain-- acknowledge that your resources and abilities are too limited to "save" everybody-- or just say that you are not God-- and so you will do what you are able to best support the few you can. Even if Bill Gates cashed out all his assets, and distributed the money to "everybody" in need, it wouldn't help anybody all that much, so it shouldn't be expected that those of us with lesser assets can either.

Who am I "serving"? Besides myself (of course), others who would like some REASONS for decisions like you've made. Like, "I have X amount of storage space, with these limitations as to environmental conditions, therefore can store only *these* amounts of *these* items, and that will support Y number of people for Z amount of time". Or, "I only have *these skills* and "energy" to deal with *this* many people in *this* amount of space, so only a limited number of people who can supply other needs will be allowed to reside here". Or even, "I'm a grumpy old coot, and too many people too close makes me itch" (my father's reason for isolated living conditions). If you don't want to reveal what personal space/stores you have-- maybe go more into how you create/find the space it will take to store X amount of supplies in various conditions for how long... and how many people for how long those supplies will support. Not "God said that if you didn't prep or don't work, you don't eat, and therefore I'm justified in shooting you if you come to my house"-- which is NOT a direct quote from you or anybody, but rather a distillation of several expressing a "popular" viewpoint, and NOT helpful.

Personally, I'm still trying to get more info on "survive in place" in small URBAN settings. Where you don't have basements or attics or 5 acres to grow food, a nearby stream for water and fish, or a woods full of game and firewood... where you are dependent on city water to grow what you have room to grow, as well as for drinking and cleaning, because in the current long term drought conditions, the choice is city water or a ten mile or so hike for salt water.

For us... we have a patio full of various "grills", some of which can use wood after the propane and charcoal runs out. A couple of 55g barrels of water next to them. Fruit trees-- without said city water they won't be very productive, but with $200+ water bills this summer... well, do you want some guavas?? Got lots, even after sharing with random strangers walking by.... Inside-- one linen cabinet and the floor of the entry closet have LT storage in 5g food safe buckets and #10 cans; some from the LDS Cannery in cases behind the couch. Can't put them under the beds, because the beds are platform beds (with clothes drawers underneath) or loft beds; rooms are small and occupied-- don't have a "spare room" for storage. Shed outside, garage and attic crawl space are not temp controlled-- the problem is heat, not cold, so not suitable for LT food or fuel storage. Too much shade and other adverse conditions makes gardening difficult and minimally productive, so growing all our own isn't possible-- and again, no room for hydroponics, and no desire to have my door broken down by law enforcement agents looking for a "grow house". There are some deer and rabbits and such in the local "green" belts, but tularemia, Lyme disease and other delightful diseases are endemic in those populations, and the bays and "rivers" are polluted, making those a poor choice as food sources.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Kaytee said:


> What "name calling"? "Padre"?? That's what I used to call the Christian chaplains I knew in the Navy, and currently, still use to address a friend/colleague who is a retired-but-still working Episcopal priest. The latter also quotes scripture "chapter & verse" to reference reasons for decisions, so you "reminded me" of him, and some of the partially remembered quote fragments I mentioned came from him. I also got them from various literature I've read in the past-- including The New English Bible (cover to cover). Note: I did not say "memorized", nor even "studied". As to the mentioned references from the "84,000" chapters/sutras... I guess one could start with the Pali Canon, find the section on Gautama Buddha's first sermon at Deer Park, go to the part on "the Four Nobel Truths", then within that, the "Eightfold Path", and within that, the "Six Paramitas"-- and start with the first "paramita", "Dana"-- selfless giving. Then check out the Dhammapada. *If* you are interested, these all are available in English, by various translators, ranging from "King James", to formal modern text-book English (with all kinds of footnotes...), to "manga" and other "graphic novel" forms.


You attacked me yesterday over a response I gave to someone else. As LincTex pointed out, you chose a piece of it, and decided it was what you were going to drill in on, without looking at the bigger picture. You have yet to address THAT! If all of these literatures work for you, it helps me to understand why you said what you said. You don't get it.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Kaytee said:


> The point I was trying to make... is that people need to take responsibility for *their* decisions. Saying "God told me" is a ... bit... egotistical? schizophrenic? lazy? If you make the decision that you only will gather/store supplies for yourself, immediate family, and a few friends who can help you-- like I said, that's fine-- just "own" that decision. If you feel the need to explain-- acknowledge that your resources and abilities are too limited to "save" everybody-- or just say that you are not God-- and so you will do what you are able to best support the few you can. Even if Bill Gates cashed out all his assets, and distributed the money to "everybody" in need, it wouldn't help anybody all that much, so it shouldn't be expected that those of us with lesser assets can either.


Wow! You are putting words in my mouth! This is just amazing to me. These are YOUR WORDS! Not mine!



Kaytee said:


> Who am I "serving"? Besides myself (of course), others who would like some REASONS for decisions like you've made. Like, "I have X amount of storage space, with these limitations as to environmental conditions, therefore can store only *these* amounts of *these* items, and that will support Y number of people for Z amount of time". Or, "I only have *these skills* and "energy" to deal with *this* many people in *this* amount of space, so only a limited number of people who can supply other needs will be allowed to reside here". Or even, "I'm a grumpy old coot, and too many people too close makes me itch" (my father's reason for isolated living conditions). If you don't want to reveal what personal space/stores you have-- maybe go more into how you create/find the space it will take to store X amount of supplies in various conditions for how long... and how many people for how long those supplies will support. Not "God said that if you didn't prep or don't work, you don't eat, and therefore I'm justified in shooting you if you come to my house"-- which is NOT a direct quote from you or anybody, but rather a distillation of several expressing a "popular" viewpoint, and NOT helpful.


 Again YOUR WORDS, not mine!



Kaytee said:


> Personally, I'm still trying to get more info on "survive in place" in small URBAN settings. Where you don't have basements or attics or 5 acres to grow food, a nearby stream for water and fish, or a woods full of game and firewood... where you are dependent on city water to grow what you have room to grow, as well as for drinking and cleaning, because in the current long term drought conditions, the choice is city water or a ten mile or so hike for salt water.
> 
> For us... we have a patio full of various "grills", some of which can use wood after the propane and charcoal runs out. A couple of 55g barrels of water next to them. Fruit trees-- without said city water they won't be very productive, but with $200+ water bills this summer... well, do you want some guavas?? Got lots, even after sharing with random strangers walking by.... Inside-- one linen cabinet and the floor of the entry closet have LT storage in 5g food safe buckets and #10 cans; some from the LDS Cannery in cases behind the couch. Can't put them under the beds, because the beds are platform beds (with clothes drawers underneath) or loft beds; rooms are small and occupied-- don't have a "spare room" for storage. Shed outside, garage and attic crawl space are not temp controlled-- the problem is heat, not cold, so not suitable for LT food or fuel storage. Too much shade and other adverse conditions makes gardening difficult and minimally productive, so growing all our own isn't possible-- and again, no room for hydroponics, and no desire to have my door broken down by law enforcement agents looking for a "grow house". There are some deer and rabbits and such in the local "green" belts, but tularemia, Lyme disease and other delightful diseases are endemic in those populations, and the bays and "rivers" are polluted, making those a poor choice as food sources.


Some of us are here to interact and share and learn. Others are here to attack and try to demean others. You have made choices about your life and for your life. So have I. You don't know me from Adam. You have NO IDEA about my life, my experiences, my living conditions. I am VERY aware of people who want to suck on the **** of society. I have many first hand experiences with that and them. Boohoo! "I chose to not work, but to live with whoever will let me while I get food stamps that I sell for booze, pot and cigarettes and I have no food for the next 10 days because I make bad choices." I'll send this type your way because they should not have to worry about tomorrow. 

This information is irrelevant to this thread, IMHO. This last quoted section is not at all what THIS thread is about. It is what you are trying to derail it to be.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> ?
> I don't understand how you came to your conclusion, could you please explain?


One of the earlier posts stated 4 people in their group with 1 years worth of food on hand. IF 4 more showed up unexpected then the 1 years worth of food would only last 6 months.

I posted that if the other 4 showed up in spring then there could the option of planning a large garden to feed 8 people.

You posted that 8 people would have a hard time guarding their garden. I'm in agreement.

In replay I posted that if 8 people could not guard their garden then how would 4 people be able too? A rhetorical question.


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