# Homeless



## crosscanadian (Nov 25, 2008)

Say that you found yourself homeless suddenly. Not after a natural disaster or a SHTF situation, because of job loss or something and you did not prepare in anyway. How would you survive?


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## desert_tom (Dec 2, 2008)

in my experience, homeless people want to be homeless. they are either drunks, druggies, or something worse and they dont want any part of normal society. this doesnt bother me at all, long as they dont bother me, i dont bother them. but for an honest citizen who wants to be a part of normal society, there are hundreds of programs all over the USA for helping homeless people, inluding jobs, food, and shelter. these programs are to get you back on your feet and back into "normal" society. i dont meen to sound rude about the homeless, but ive learned from experience with these people. some of them have legitimate medical problems, my own cousin is a Hermit, and without someone there with her 24/7 she would be homeless and on the street.

hope this helps!

-thomas


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## saintsfanbrian (Oct 30, 2008)

I don't believe my family would allow me to be homeless. If I lost a job I would move in with family until I could find a new one. Using any money I took in to help them with the increased expense. This is the reason why you should always have several months worth of living expenses in the bank.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

desert_tom said:


> in my experience, homeless people want to be homeless. they are either drunks, druggies, or something worse and they dont want any part of normal society. this doesnt bother me at all, long as they dont bother me, i dont bother them. but for an honest citizen who wants to be a part of normal society, there are hundreds of programs all over the USA for helping homeless people, inluding jobs, food, and shelter. these programs are to get you back on your feet and back into "normal" society. i dont meen to sound rude about the homeless, but ive learned from experience with these people. some of them have legitimate medical problems, my own cousin is a Hermit, and without someone there with her 24/7 she would be homeless and on the street.
> 
> hope this helps!
> 
> -thomas


This couldn't be further from the truth in my experience. There is a subset of people who don't care to achieve stuff but there are A LOT of families out there who are homeless because of circumstances and not because they want to be. I have even met people who were wealthy who are homeless because of medical bills living in shelters.

I really advise everyone to donate their time to homeless shelters and interact with the people and esp. children. It's not all a bunch of druggies.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

In my LIMITED experence with 'Homeless' people, I find that a great percentage of them are military vets,
And they are so screwed up (PTSD, Paranoid, ect.) they can't hold down 'Regular' jobs, 
And they 'Self Medicate'.... Drugs, booze, ect.

I will NEVER pass on the chance to find out if a guy is a Vet or not, and if he is, I'll damn sure buy him a meal!
(I won't invest in his addictions, but I darn sure will feed him!)

A few years back, we found a guy living on the river bank.

He had dug out part of the bank, and built a 'Dug Out' using old truck tires as wall building material.

He was a PTSD vet, so we let him stay, and provided him with work cleaning up that particular part of the river bottoms...
We let him wash his cloths in the washer we used for shop rags, coveralls, ect. in the big garage, and we hired him to be a 'Handy Man/Watchman' for the farm equipment.

Eventually, we ran across an old travel trailer and moved that in behind the garage/machine shed at the river...
(Which he paid for out of his wages for working)

Once he got help at the VA, (which we provided the transportation to/from) and he dried out, he was very good help!
Eventually, he got is license back, met a fat woman at church and got married, and the last I heard, he was working for Caterpillar on transmissions in the field. 

I'm sure the cities are full of welfare fraud, insurance fraud and types like that, but I can't attest to them.
Around here, more than 2/3 of the 'homeless' are military vets, and they can and will work, but they just can't work for 'Factory' types...

My cousin just got chewed out because he gave summer work to 'Bums' instead of the local teenagers home from collage on summer break...

The 'bums' were disabled (mostly PTSD or brain injury) from the Iraq war, and farm living/working seems to agree with them, since there isn't anyone breathing down their necks, and if they get the shakes, they are perfectly welcome to take the time they need to get things back together...

Good, hard workers that get the job done is what we think about them!

I don't 'Play Well' with others, part of that is PTSD from my military service, but I'm lucky, I've always been able to work someplace I'm not up to my butt in over sensitive office people!

Remember, you are just one brain injury away from being them!


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## desert_tom (Dec 2, 2008)

i guess it depends on your demographic, in the palces ive lived, most were drunks and addicts. but like i said, a few were honest citizens that were living on the streets for reasons that were their own. i wish the best for people in these situations. there are alot of programs for people like this, and i think that dean is right, anything you can do to help someone in this situation would make a world of difference. but as a rule i dont give them money. living in the desert, i give out water and canned food alot. sometimes ill give some smokes to guys on the corner.

one story was i saw a family of 4 sitting in a van near my house, with a sign that said homeless and hungry, or something. i went home, changed my clothes, and took them all out to deny's. they were nice, had run out of luck moving here after some medical expenses, but were definately not drunks or druggies. nice people.

and as far as military vets living on the street, i have seen alot of those. my father was one of the people responsible for getting vets psychological help after vietnam ( took them long enough ) in and around the pacific northwest. he was one who suffered post traumatic stress syndrome. anyway, i think im rambling - 

-thomas


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## BlackPaladin (Oct 20, 2008)

JeepHammer said:


> In my LIMITED experence with 'Homeless' people, I find that a great percentage of them are military vets,
> And they are so screwed up (PTSD, Paranoid, ect.) they can't hold down 'Regular' jobs,
> And they 'Self Medicate'.... Drugs, booze, ect.
> 
> ...


Listen to this man.

Listen to this man.

His statements can be backed up by statistics. A large number of the homeless are vets, and/or are suffering from various mental illnesses and/or substance abuse issues.

Help as you are able.


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## dilligaf (Oct 17, 2008)

i am wondering how the original post turned into being one about the actual homeless and their worth in society .... Simple matter of fact is not all the homeless are homeless by choice and as this economy worsens many more will find them self in that same situation... Many of us so called preppers or survivalists, whatever you wish to call us could very well be in the same boat. 

At the same time i would hope that if it does happen to me.. i would at the very least have had the means to do something beforehand and know that if nothing else ,i have a food supply and a means to produce more food by finding a place where i could guerilla garden.... By not securing anything before hand it is ones own fault. When they find themselves completely empty handed they have absolutely noone to blame but themself . This is what prepping is truly all about, being prepared to survive most anything ( short of nuclear annihilation or alien rapture stuff) and be able to do so with a minimal amount of turmoil. Learn outdoor skills , learn to grow and save seed, keep a supply of food or several in caches etc...do this stuff before you have to use it... 
Anyone that thinks they are just going to learn this stuff when SHTF or you find yourself homeless is silly


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

If suddenly homeless as in the original question, I would first try my group of friends for lodging. This way I could still go to work, assuming the job did not disappear also, and help out on expenses. Family is a long, long way away and would be a second on the list.

If home and job disappeared then it would be time to move. I would gather up what still remained of my possessions and do a through inventory. What do I REALLY need and what can I afford to move to a new location that will be of value. I would need to relocate because homesteading in my immediate area is not feasible. Not sure what area but it would have to be somewhere close to civilization, so I could find work and bring in cash. Then, setup camp, find employment and work like a bastard to get into a home again! I'd have not much else to do so as many jobs as possible to fill in my time. And I'm open to pretty much any job, I've had some horrible jobs in my time but they were what was available and brought in money.


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## wd4nyl (Nov 26, 2008)

The sobering thought is as I heard a minister put it "remember, that you are all just two or three months of missing paychecks any from being at my soup kitchen."

And, it's true. If you are having trouble making ends meet as it is, what happens when due to sickness, economy or whatever, you suddenly have no or very limited income & you watch your savings erode away & you find that the bill collectors never seem to be unemployed.

There but for the Grace of God goeth all of us Bubbas.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

crosscanadian said:


> Say that you found yourself homeless suddenly. Not after a natural disaster or a SHTF situation, because of job loss or something and you did not prepare in anyway. How would you survive?


I'd scavenge or beg what I could carry and head for the nearest river.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

crosscanadian said:


> Say that you found yourself homeless suddenly. Not after a natural disaster or a SHTF situation, because of job loss or something and you did not prepare in anyway. How would you survive?


One of my good friends found himself in that situation recently. He has a good paying job - but, he and his GF broke up. She kept the house and he needed to find a new place to live. He didn't make enough to pay all his expenses, plus a motel, plus restaraunt eating .... so, he lived in my tent-trailer for a while till he could locate a new place to live. It cost him propane for heating / cooking. I took care of the electricity (powered off the house) and he just needed to feed himself.

Of course he had access to the house for washroom / shower / laundry - but - he was "homeless" by the techincal-term.

Now he has a new place, a new GF and his life is following the mode of normalcy ..

He didn't prepare, but, because of my preparation, he was able to continue living in relative comfort.


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## Washkeeton (Oct 18, 2008)

Ive been there too... I was prego with my second child... Was transfered with my job from Fairbanks to the anchorage area. My daughter and I lived in a motel from Nov to May. I was told that I needed to be out of my room by June 1 or my rent would go to the summer rate of 2700 per month... that is what they made renting the rooms in the summer to travelers. So until I found a place to move to and before I signed papers on my house mid to the end of june I was literly homeless. No one wanted to do month to month. I had my son the first part of June and the house deal fell through the week before he was born... The sellers picked up and decided to sell the house they would have to invest a bit of money to make it happen... while I was at the hosp having my son they fixed the problems and I signed the papers on the house a week after my son was born... At least then we all had a place to go.. 

I spent the first week after he was born moving appliences out and recarpeting the house... (after a C section). I had a second major surgery 3 weeks after the C section. With in a week of that I moved all the stuff from storage to where I am now. I went back to work 3 weeks after that surgery.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

I've got a buddy right now...
Waiting to turn left, and 23 year old girl driving a borrowed car with no insurance and talking on a cell phone rear ended him, throwing him into oncoming traffic, hit again from the front by full size pick-up and thrown back across the median into the path of a big truck (Semi)...

1.5 hours to cut him out of the vehicle,
Life flight to the neighboring BIG City hospital,
Broken neck, skull fractures, dislocated shoulder, dislocated knee, ect.

That was the Monday before Thanksgiving.
His former wife served him with summons for non-payment of child support!
He was current the day of the accident, but missed the Dec.-1 payment!

Will spend AT LEAST 6 months in HALO, Body Cast, ect.
Then another 6 months of Physical Therapy.
Extend of damages isn't known yet, and won't be until the PT is under way...

SO!
When he's released, he's always welcome at my house!
I say, sign away, get all the medical stuff he needs, then file bankruptcy in about a year when it's all over and start again!

He may be 'Homeless', but he won't be 'Friend-Less'!


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## Big B (Oct 28, 2008)

Back to CrosCad's original question, I carry a Bug out bag in my trunk, it has a space blanket or three, para cord 200ft, fire making equip, three camo tarps, mre's, I always have 5gal of h20, first aid kit, change of clothes, extra shoes and sox and undies, four boxes of protein bars, fish net (shore throw kind) small ax, folding saw. I also carry a waterbottle with a ceramic filter in it. Three knives and a gun and ammo.
You can stay in your car, or at best, keep dry and keep moving.
In rural areas, it's amazing how many empty buildings there are, that people never check on. If you are quiet and move smooth, you can survive easily.

Everybody got totally off question talking about the homeless. As much as I hate to admit it, JeepHam is dead on about the homeless issue. i have fed the homeless for over fifteen years, in a huge city.
Many of the homeless in the cities are drug and alcohol related, get about twenty miles out and they are mostly fallen on hard times. 
Point?
It's safer in the rural areas.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

I totally agree with the sentiment that we are all one head injury away from homelessness. I've worked with the homeless population in a number of different ways. What I've walked away with is; it doesn't take much to start down the path toward homelessness. It starts with a relatively minor head injury or traumatic event that alters your social skills. You start with something like eating with your mouth open, or saying inappropriate things because you lose that filter most of us take for granted, or you start responding angrily to the wrong type of people (people in authority like your boss, the cops, a doctor) and you're on your way. You start to isolate yourself because you just can't seem to get it right. Everytime you interact with someone, it ends badly, so you pull back more and more. Soon, your safety net fall apart. Your family is sick of your outbursts, your boss has to make lay offs and you've crossed the line too many times, you miss a few mortgage or rent payments and you're there.

Once you're there, you have options, but all have a price. Shelters demand that you live by their rules and carry their own risks. The streets have their own risks, obviously, but if your behavior isn't within the shelter's rules, then you're on the streets. Families take priority in the shelter, so as the economy gets worse, demand for bed space will rise and limits your options.

I guess I have this illusion that caches could still be of use to me even if I'm homeless. With that in mind, I think the following would be useful items to have available:
*Socks*-Lots of them. Folks, they're $10/dozen at Cosco for cotton and they have four-packs of wool socks for $10 for winter. Every single homeless person I've seen in the ER had hideous feet. 
*Anti-fungal cream* and/or powder-Again, foot care should be a high priority. It's cheap insurance no matter what scenario you foresee. It's tough to put miles on rotten feet.
*Knife*-Not anything that will get you arrested, but something big enough to defend yourself in a pinch. Just remember, it won't be allowed in the shelters, so you'll need to have somewhere safe to stash it.
*Sewing kit*-A rip in your jacket or pants is more than an inconvenience until you get home if you don't have a home.
*Playing cards*-A good way to socialize with others and pass the time.
*Small flashlight* w/ spare batteries-Just a tool to explore dark places others may steer clear of. 
*Copies of important photos, documents & ID*-While a flashdrive might be useful for when you get off the streets, actual pictures have a value all their own. I'd think a flashdrive with an up-to-date resume, copies of your SS card, driver's license, certifications, personal family photos, and account numbers would be a great back up just in case. If you encrypt it, you reduce the risk of identity theft.
*Phone numbers*-A list of phone numbers of everyone you know just might harbor that one friend or relative that might be willing to give you a second chance when you've burned all your other bridges.
*A change of clothes*-While shelters may supply clean donated clothes, it would be nice to have a stash of stuff that fits properly and is in good condition so you can interview for jobs or do laundry once in a while.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Good idea about the soft copies of documents. I have the numbers written down and photocopies of them but it would be prudent to have them all on one device. I would think a CD might be more resilient to moisture and handling abuse. But, I’ve never had a flash drive so wouldn’t know first hand. I bet you could pass word protect the files or hide them among other files.

With that said, tomorrow is the time to bring documents into work and scan them!


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

ALL you information would fit on one USB 'Thumb' drive.

Every document you have ever seen or had on yourself will fit on one drive! (As the light goes on over my head!  )

I would think that and a dog tags or medical alert bracelet would be mandatory.

Medic alert bracelet or 'Dog Tags' (not necessarily military type) with name, SSN, allergies, and maybe contact info for relatives would be a REAL good idea.

I have my Name, SSN, Blood type tattooed on my left chest and on my right leg...
(It's a military thing)


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## zorro (May 6, 2009)

desert_tom said:


> in my experience, homeless people want to be homeless. they are either drunks, druggies, or something worse and they dont want any part of normal society. this doesnt bother me at all, long as they dont bother me, i dont bother them. but for an honest citizen who wants to be a part of normal society, there are hundreds of programs all over the USA for helping homeless people, inluding jobs, food, and shelter. these programs are to get you back on your feet and back into "normal" society. i dont meen to sound rude about the homeless, but ive learned from experience with these people. some of them have legitimate medical problems, my own cousin is a Hermit, and without someone there with her 24/7 she would be homeless and on the street. -thomas


Well, desert_tom I guess you live on a cloud surrounded by nice flowers and all. Bad situations don't only happen to others, they may as well happen to you! So come back to earth and start preparing!!!

I have been homeless at one point. I never got drunk in my whole life (don't drink at all). I never took any drug, not even smoked tobacco. People consider me a wise person. I've been raised in what people consider a normal family, within a normal neighborhood. It was not MY fault, nor MY willingness. During these months I was continuing to operate my business (so my employees don't loose their job and THEIR families don't become homeless). So it was not related to not having money to pay for my house (I owned that house another year long after these events). Nor was it related to "not wanting to be part of normal society". It all happened very quickly and was because my boyfriend became insane. I could not go to friend's or family home because I needed to hide from boyfriend. Becoming homeless may happen to anyone, for any reason *you can't currently even imagine*. 

This tough me one really useful lesson: you NEVER know what will happen NOR when it will happen. So you've got to be prepared for anything, anytime.

As what helped me being able to kind of continue living a normal life is the fact I had enough supplies at my business place, I would suggest everyone always keep some supplies (food, clothing, whatever you need on a daily basis) somewhere easily accessible for you. Also, think where you could sleep other than home for short, medium and long term. The answers will vary depending of your special needs (kids, sickness, etc), but you've got to know them before you face the situation. Because when the situation happens, you have a lot of other things to think of and take care of.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Zorro, supplies at your business place is a very good idea. I have plenty at mine along with equipment to get safely to my BOL. I also keep a BOB in my Jeep.


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

Lost a good job in December 2008. Then a 3-month contract assignment. After that, pretty much forced to live with relatives this past summer. We had the resources to move, put our stuff in storage, and get by for a little while. Back to work in October 2009. Homelessness can happen to anyone who doesn't have enough cash reserves and who has too many bills. We were just lucky to have relatives who could put us up. Life lesson - Lots and lots of money is a danged good prep.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

*Homeless stereotypes*

Homeless does not equal helpless. Anyone can be homeless, at any time, for a myriad of reasons. I'd rather live in an off-grid camper in the woods than be shackled to 30 year mortgage on a house.

Around here, it seems we are encouraged to work jobs we don't like to buy stuff we don't need, to impress people we don't like. Then when we lose the job and financially struggle, society sees us as misfits, failures, a drain on society.

Many homeless/nearly homeless people are too proud to ask for help. I seek those people out in my area, because I've been there. Happy I was homeless years ago, because now I'm a prepper. Just imagine, I could have stayed a sheep...


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Lake Windsong said:


> Homeless does not equal helpless. Anyone can be homeless, at any time, for a myriad of reasons. I'd rather live in an off-grid camper in the woods than be shackled to 30 year mortgage on a house.
> 
> Around here, it seems we are encouraged to work jobs we don't like to buy stuff we don't need, to impress people we don't like. Then when we lose the job and financially struggle, society sees us as misfits, failures, a drain on society.
> 
> Many homeless/nearly homeless people are too proud to ask for help. I seek those people out in my area, because I've been there. Happy I was homeless years ago, because now I'm a prepper. Just imagine, I could have stayed a sheep...


I don't consider a trailer in the woods homeless. I agree with everything else though. I don't like how in our culture we are born into debt. Starts everything off on the wrong foot.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

*Clarification...*

Sorry Dean, let me clarify. Instead of getting a mortgage on a McMansion, we built a modest home ourselves. So we were able to afford a bugout place with a camper in the next state.
That's what I meant when I said I'd rather have a camper in the woods than a mortgage.
I was homeless years ago, and as soon as I could I bought a camper. It was home sweet home.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I'm with you Lake Windsong, only I prefer our sail boat riding at anchor in the lee of an island. I am trying to convince my wife of that. She has me paying for her mansion.:nuts::nuts::nuts: ARRRRGH!!!


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

Working to esacpe the shackle of my McMansion. The nice thing is I have two BOL one north of me and one south that are paid off. Both have cabins. As soon as my last child is off to college it is bye bye mansion hello woods......that is if shtf does not happen before then.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Lake Windsong said:


> Sorry Dean, let me clarify. Instead of getting a mortgage on a McMansion, we built a modest home ourselves. So we were able to afford a bugout place with a camper in the next state.
> That's what I meant when I said I'd rather have a camper in the woods than a mortgage.
> I was homeless years ago, and as soon as I could I bought a camper. It was home sweet home.


Well I'm all for that. I'm looking for that great big deluxe McMansion in the sky. Kidding. I'm looking into acreage. I want land.


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## pierrebonho (Jan 9, 2010)

*Homeless survival*

Make use of all foodbanks, drop-ins, shelters etc until you can get out of the city.


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## earthorca (Feb 3, 2010)

Ok, I'll get on my soapbox for a minute. _Not everyone _who experiences homlessness _wants to be there_. As far as shelters and programs go to helping them yes they exist but they are not the easiset thing to get in or on to. (Speaking from personal experience, was homeless with wife and 4 kids for 3 months.)

Ok off the soap box now:wave:

If I were to find myself homless again I would try to work the system (honesty is not always the best policy) I would actually prefer to be homeless in the wilderness then in the city. Yes in the city you have easier access to water, temp. shelter and even food (Garbage cans etc). That being said you have to deal with the other homeless, LEO's etc. If you could find yourself on the edge of a town you could have the best of both worlds so to speak. Now as for location, I would prefer to be homeless up north - I have been in Houston TX for over 13 years and still can't stand the heat. You can always dress warmer but are limited to the amount of clothing you can shed.


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## earthorca (Feb 3, 2010)

wd4nyl said:


> The sobering thought is as I heard a minister put it "remember, that you are all just two or three months of missing paychecks any from being at my soup kitchen."


Now those are true words if I ever heard them. Thanks for the posting!


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## wildman800 (Oct 17, 2008)

Being retired military and a prepper, I fully realize how thin the line is between my normal life and being homeless and destitute. As the minister quoted in the aforementioned post stated: many of us are only 2 or 3 months of missing paychecks from being in serious trouble.

I've been retired from the military for 10 years now and I'm still working to pay off all of my debt. There has been very substantial progress thus far and I have been between jobs, using my preps to ease the outflow of cash for feeding my family.

My plan includes recognizing the coming lack of employment, try to sell my home before foreclosure, procure a large camper and have it prepositioned where I can still look for work, still have access for my DD1's medical needs, etc. 

I have positioned myself, thus far, to be able to quickly downsize if economics or a sudden mass longterm evacuation (don't laugh, I believe we came very close to that happening here on the Gulf Coast) were to force me from my home. 

I have not got very much cash in the house at the moment bvut I do have a $1,000 in cash stashed within 2 1/2 hours drive of my present home (at my relocation site). I have sufficient transport capability to move my supplies and tools as well as special equipment needed for my handicapped DD1.

Here's one other alternative. If near marina's, look for a vessel that you can live aboard, as a caretaker. You get a place to live and the owner gets to sleep at night knowing that his boat isn't sinking at the dock.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I moved onto my sailboat the end of June. It has been interesting getting used to a whole new routine, living in ways that are completely out of the ordinary compared to the sheeple house holder routine. I totally enjoy no television and have been busy working on my little prep projects. I wonder how people will behave when their routine is completely done away with. I imagine the psycological effect on alot of people will be devasting.:scratch


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## Diego2112 (Aug 18, 2010)

Around several years ago, I found myself homeless for a couple of weeks. I WAS living with my grandparents (my parents were overseas at the time, I had came home to finish up my schooling), and working at an office supply store. I had nothing stocked/prepared (I mean, come on, what does a 17-18 year old care about other than scoring chicks? lawl) or anything bundled up. Prom night my senior year, I made the mistake of falling asleep at my GF's house. I get back to my grandparents the next day, and my grandpa says "Your $#!7 is on the front lawn, get it and get out. I dont know you anymore."

3 weeks to graduation.

I had been clean (from drugs and illegal use of alcohol) for just over three months, and I was doing GOOD at my job, too!

I had nowhere to go, and nobody to live with. My brother :beercheer: would let me use his shower and give me a meal every now and again, but his landlord (he was in an apartment at the time) was not so keen on my being there. I lived out of my car, and in abandoned buildings in and around the area (there was a REALLY nice abandoned hotel about a half hour from my school, with a stream near by... No REAL fish, but frogs and minnows, crayfish too!). It was only thanks to the skills I learned in Civil Air Patrol and my brother :beercheer: letting me shower at his house that I made it through. Two weeks may not seem like a long time, but when you're 18, it's a scary thing, ja? The turning point was my parents came home and set me up in a place just before graduation. Shortly thereafter, I moved back overseas, where I was comfortable, and safe!

Every time I have a cigarette on me and I pass a homeless person, I hook 'em up. If I've got spare change, I help 'em out. I'll buy 'em a meal when I can, and give 'em directions to the nearest shelter or abandoned building. I've been there, and by the Grace of God, I made it out QUICKLY.

------------------------

As to what I'd do if I were there AGAIN: The exact same thing. I did fine, never went hungry, and now I know some really good fishing/foraging spots around the area. PLUS I've got a GREAT hunting rifle, and know how to use it. I'd just up to the mountains, and scout out that nice little cabin that's abandoned.

Yeah, I think that's what I'd do. Main issue is the wife and kid... THEY might not take to primitive living as well as me! lawl

Then again, my parents are back stateside, and I'll be back in their neck of the woods before too long (moving back to Northern NC by month end, house is paid for [mostly]... actually, it's just up the road from that old hotel I mentioned! lawl)... SO, I'll just play the grandkid card, and I'm SET! tee hee hee


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