# Cattle fencing



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

I'm just curious what you guys use to keep cattle in? Often when I look at photos of farms over in the U.S post and rail fencing seems to be a popular choice. Over here wire stock net topped off with two tensioned strands of line wire or barb above it is more widely used due to the cost of rails being more expensive. I find that even a properly tensioned wire fence will not deter cattle that are determined to get the other side of it. The post and rail seems to put them off attempting to jump. Maybe stock net topped off with rail would be a better, cheaper alternative to full post and rail. I'd be interested to explore other potential options if anyone has something different to suggest.


----------



## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm not a Rancher, but I do know that some Cattle Ranchers use Electrified Fencing. Cattle tend to learn real quick to stay away from the Fence. Lots of others here with much more experience than I have.


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Almost all cows are fenced in with 3 or 4 strands of barb wire. In western areas where antelope are found the DNR tries to get ranchers to have the bottom strand barbless.


----------



## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

When we had cattle we always used 5 strands of barbed wire. We would use 1 stand of electric inside that in fields we had problems keeping the cows in. If cows want out bad enough they will find a way. We had one Angus heifer that kicked a wall of the barn out, needless to say fencing was effective either. But man was that some good steaks. 

Whatever you use, walk the fence row on a regular basis and fix any problem areas right away


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

here,most folks use 4-5 strands of barbed wire,or 4ft-5ft wide to 8ft-16ft long panels..but yet.some folks here,go with whats known as pipe fence.in which in some cases.the pipe is simular to the pipes used n oil fields,if i remember correctly..


----------



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

well fed cattle don't need much fence, poorly fed cattle will get through almost anything. Cattle are herd animals and need to have an established pecking order to behave decently. a field full of heifers or steers will be very hard to contain because they are flighty. 4 or 5 wire barb is kind of the standard for containment here. Smooth wire that is not electrified does little to contain the more adventurous, they tend to worry it until it has stretched enough to get through easily. Electrified 2 wire works well with animals that are used to it, but if you get snow cover, you need to add a ground (earth) wire, because snow insulates.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I do think one of the factors depends upon the part of the country you live in.

I have worked on fences. It is one of the jobs that the low man or woman on the list gets to work on.

I come from a family of cattle ranchers. One of my uncles alternated between a wooden post and a metal t post. Barbed wire is very commonly used, but in some parts of one person's property, you might see electrical fence, or fence sections with grids. One of my uncles has 2600 acres, so he has some of what I just described.

If you end up with a herd that escapes frequently, some people are known to put up two fences, one a couple feet inside the other.

I do believe that part of it is to keep cattle well fed and watered, then they won't roam.

You didn't ask, but bison are very difficult to contain. They roam and they will mow down a fence. They need lots of land, such as the former Roy Houck ranch in South Dakota where Dances With Wolves was mostly filmed. Ted Turner owns it now. Mowing crews worked every day all summer, mowing and baling the prairie grass. http://www.capjournal.com/news/ted-...cle_3134cc2a-665b-11e5-b0f3-87d514cffb6c.html


----------



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

To be fair to them these cattle normally don't cause too much grief. The main problem times seem to be when a horny bull sees an opportunity to get with the ladies or when it comes time for weaned calves to be separated from cows. Much of it seems avoidable simply by keeping them further apart but it's not my farm, I just do some of their fence work so that's out of my hands really. The owner seemed to be convinced that electric fencing would be expensive. I have no experience of electrified fencing but if it is as effective as people suggest it might be cheaper in the long run. I'll take a look into it. Thanks for the input :thankyou:


----------



## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Keeping Bulls separated will require they to be in a much heavier fence. Maybe multiple type. The pipe fence mentioned about might be a good candidate for that. But the will try and take down anything to get to a heifer in heat.
We always ran everything together and mostly avoided separating them, unless we were weaning calves. They we kept in the barn for a period of time for that and just let the moms wander around the barn. keeps them separate, but avoids tearing up fences. Our main herds were either Herfords or Red Short Horn Durhams. Both were fairly docile, with an occasional wild one. We'd either sell it or butcher it. 
We also used locust post for all corners and 1 out every 3. The 2 remaining were Metal T post.


----------



## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

Tirediron said:


> well fed cattle don't need much fence, poorly fed cattle will get through almost anything. Cattle are herd animals and need to have an established pecking order to behave decently. a field full of heifers or steers will be very hard to contain because they are flighty. 4 or 5 wire barb is kind of the standard for containment here. Smooth wire that is not electrified does little to contain the more adventurous, they tend to worry it until it has stretched enough to get through easily. Electrified 2 wire works well with animals that are used to it, but if you get snow cover, you need to add a ground (earth) wire, because snow insulates.


Amen! To a 1200lb cow a fence is nothing more than a suggestion. As long as what is inside the fence keeps their attention you'll have no problems.


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Electric fencing isn't any more expensive than barbed wire fencing unless you go for the "fancy" fence tape. It has better visibility but at a cost. You need to make sure you have a good ground and a good charger. I used to rent from a guy that built his bull pen out of old guard rails. He got them from the county when the highway was being re done. He made it 4 rails high, sevenish foot tall and that bull never escaped.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

The farmer here are small compared to the Midwest, but we use more 48" high hog wire/ with 1 or 2 strands on top for cows or any large animals. Only horses are kelp in post & rail.
But I can see why 4 & 5 strands of wire fence would work well for cows.


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Most farms in Minnesota when I lived there were only three strand with some 4 strand. Those cows were mostly all dairy cows (if that makes a difference). I have also hunted a lot in many western states and most fences encountered there are 4 strand. I have seen very few electric fences in the west. In the Midwest electric fences are often used for temporary enclosures though a few farmers use electric for permanent enclosures also.


----------



## InWyo (Sep 29, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> well fed cattle don't need much fence, poorly fed cattle will get through almost anything. Cattle are herd animals and need to have an established pecking order to behave decently. a field full of heifers or steers will be very hard to contain because they are flighty. 4 or 5 wire barb is kind of the standard for containment here. Smooth wire that is not electrified does little to contain the more adventurous, they tend to worry it until it has stretched enough to get through easily. Electrified 2 wire works well with animals that are used to it, but if you get snow cover, you need to add a ground (earth) wire, because snow insulates.


This is very true. I have ranched all of my 66 years of life and have seen all types of fences. To hold cattle securely, the best fence is 4 or 5 wire barb 12 gauge stretched very tightly. Good end and corner braces are essential in a top quality fence. Good braces are 90% of your fence. Line posts no further apart than 15 feet. Braces I make are called H braces, with two -8 foot long, 5 inch top, treated wood posts spaced about 8 feet apart and the horizontal brace being pipe of at least 1 1/4 id diameter placed horizontal about 5 to 6 inches down from the top of the posts and in between with a diagonal wire wrapped a couple of times from the top of the secondary brace post to the bottom of the primary post and then tightened by twisting. Some use a small wood post for horizontal brace material, however wood bracing tends to not hold as good over the years. There are diagrams on the net on how to build H braces.

Yearlings are like teenagers, they have to test everything. Cows, once fence broke, generally respect most fences if the feed is adequate in the pasture. Bulls with hot cows across the fence are best kept in a very secure corral or if out in the pasture, then a standoff electric fence wire about 12 to 16 inches away from the barb wire fence about 30 inches off the ground. Bulls are difficult but once they touch a hot wire, they tend to respect it if the barb wire fence along with it is good shape. Most all of my fences are, top wire waist high (I am 6'2") with the rest spaced pretty equally and bottom wire about 8 inches off the ground. Don't bother with smooth wire on a barb wire fence, as it does nothing to deter cattle. Be careful with electric fence wire, as if it goes down and tangles, cattle can get tangled in it and get severely injured before you can get the wire off of them. Post and rail work fairly well but are costly and take lots of maintenance. Cattle love to rub and scratch and post and rail provide great places to rub and with the power of cattle, they can knock it down. Provide good feed and water and half the battle is over.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It varies a lot, even within an area. For liability and other reasons areas typically have a legal definition of what constitutes a suitable perimeter fence. The standard is usually a four barb wired fence, with posts only so far apart, and then there are alternatives. This will hold the vast majority of cattle, the vast majority of the time. As already mentioned and as one can assume, such a fence is not an actual physical containment, a 2000lb+ bull can certainly get through that fence, as can a 100lb calf, but it works very well with cattle of normal psychology. If cattle are left for a long time in one area, they WILL tend to reach through a barb wire fence, and the fence will deteriorate rapidly. Temporarily or permanently putting an electric fencer on the barb wire fence solves the problem (some will tell you this is not a good idea), as does adding a hot wire with standoff insulators. The "new" high-tensile barbwire is much lower maintenance and resists these issues, barbs are closer together and sharp, and the wire is much lighter, it can be tightened by hand and if installed with springs will stay tight.

A good alternative that imposes more of a physical barrier is "field fence", which is a woven wire mesh with holes that get progressively smaller towards the bottom. This is topped with 1 or two wire of either barbed or smooth wire, which can be electrified. Done right, this can be an effective barrier to predators and almost all livestock, depending on the type of wire and heights. Adding a standoff electric wire makes it a barrier to most animals (including wildlife so that needs to be considered). Field fence is much better for very small calves as they can end up on the wrong side of barb wire fences.

High tensile smooth wire fences are usually considered an alternative, but they are a PITA in most situations.

As for non-perimeter cross-fences, anything goes. A single electric poly wire can do amazing things, for a few hundred bucks you can have a mile of fence including wire, posts and a "fencer". Solar fencers are finally becoming reasonable and are very reliable, but it is still usually cheaper to pick up a 12V fencer, a $10-20 panel, and any old 12V battery. Two wires are MUCH better, especially with animals of vastly different sizes such as cows and baby calves, three wires is a bit better, one can be grounded.

We often use 2-3 barb wires for pasture cross fence, and it holds cattle that are being regularly moved very well, there are times and situations where we put power on them.

ANY animal that becomes a fence crawler gets at most one chance at rehabilitation, spending some time in an electric fenced area, if they do it again they are gone.

Corrals are another thing entirely, this just refers to pastures.


----------



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Thanks for the replies, they are very informative. I like the idea of making use of pipe, that's something I don't recall seeing over here. I have seen H-braces made of wooden posts once or twice. Typically I use diagonal braces pulled tight with twisted 6mm mild steel wire and my strainer posts have cross members beneath ground level. These are deeply buried with as much strainer post below ground as above. I like to take my time and make sure these are absolutely solid. The stock net I use sounds like the same stuff that cowboyhermit mentioned (field fence). The gap between the wires that make up the boxes is small enough to keep sheep in which I forgot to mention is also a requirement on this farm. Fence posts are approx 2.5 meters apart. Some older parts of fence are topped with barb but the owner does not like this and is not keen to use it. He thinks the cattle like to rub themselves up against it too much. For that reason he likes me to top the stock net off with two strands of plain wire. It's frustrating as the farm manager (not the owner) is often impatient and will undo my work. A few months back I fenced off a field for him in the manner described. Everything was tight, I was pleased, the owner was happy, the cattle stayed put just fine..... but then the day comes to move them and the farm manager loses his patience with a cow that is not keen to go the direction he wants it to go. He rushes it with a quad bike and guess what??? Off it goes straight over my new fence. vract: The wire net actually sprang back like new after it had gone over but it broke the two top wires and a couple of fence posts so those had to be mended/replaced. Often it could be avoided with a bit of consideration but we seem to go around in the same circles and that's why I was thinking it might be best to just go for some other more robust option in future.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Uriel said:


> Thanks for the replies, they are very informative. I like the idea of making use of pipe, that's something I don't recall seeing over here. I have seen H-braces made of wooden posts once or twice. Typically I use diagonal braces pulled tight with twisted 6mm mild steel wire and my strainer posts have cross members beneath ground level. These are deeply buried with as much strainer post below ground as above. I like to take my time and make sure these are absolutely solid. The stock net I use sounds like the same stuff that cowboyhermit mentioned (field fence). The gap between the wires that make up the boxes is small enough to keep sheep in which I forgot to mention is also a requirement on this farm. Fence posts are approx 2.5 meters apart. Some older parts of fence are topped with barb but the owner does not like this and is not keen to use it. He thinks the cattle like to rub themselves up against it too much. For that reason he likes me to top the stock net off with two strands of plain wire. It's frustrating as the farm manager (not the owner) is often impatient and will undo my work. A few months back I fenced off a field for him in the manner described. Everything was tight, I was pleased, the owner was happy, the cattle stayed put just fine..... but then the day comes to move them and the farm manager loses his patience with a cow that is not keen to go the direction he wants it to go. He rushes it with a quad bike and guess what??? Off it goes straight over my new fence. vract: The wire net actually sprang back like new after it had gone over but it broke the two top wires and a couple of fence posts so those had to be mended/replaced. Often it could be avoided with a bit of consideration but we seem to go around in the same circles and that's why I was thinking it might be best to just go for some other more robust option in future.


Stockprod, on the "manager".


----------



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

cowboyhermit said:


> Stockprod, on the "manager".


Don't suppose you have one I could borrow? I'll return it as soon as he has been rehabilitated


----------



## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

I was going to give my input on our fencing but everybody said it. We use 5 wires with a tpost every 6 feet. Then we put a wooden post every 6-8 tposts. Our h braces are usually set in concrete. We have put hog wire up with that to attempt to keep hogs out of hay. Sadly, we ran out of money and couldn't do entire pastures. Have not had a cow or bull go through any fences. However today husband got a cow in stockpen for first time in 2 years and moved her to this property to take to sale tomorrow. The ones from near the river are getting rank and we are too old to deal with cows that can't be safely worked by the two of us so he is selling those. The stockpen is new, wooden and 6 foot tall. Had we gotten her in it while sorting keep and sell, she would not have gone over the cattle panel in the grass pen. He thought she gutted herself on tpost, but I couldn't find any blood. The Brahman in her came out today. You usually can pet her,,, not today. She won't go to sale tomorrow. Prices are dropping so bad right now.


----------

