# Dropped my well pipe - rut ro..



## MountainKing

<sigh>
So I'll have to do the walk of shame here and post my screw-up for all to comment on. Trust me, you can't tell me I'm any more dumb than I've already told myself <g>.

Our water well has not worked since we moved in three years ago. The house used to use the well, but prior to us moving in the house was plumbed for city water (but thankfully still on septic for sewage - win/win!). Anyway, the old pumphouse and well have sat there for years. I contacted the previous owner and he said the well pump was shot and not working (the wires had been cut to the pump house after the home was put on city water). I was wanting to do one of two things with it - either install a deep well hand pump or put a Waterboy bucket on it.

Well, long story short - I was pulling the pump a few days ago with (what I thought) was a great little rig with a pulley rigged up in a tree, but it did impart a slight bending moment on the PVC pipe. Before I could get the first segment up and secured...pow, the PVC broke off at the first joint (approximately 20') and the remainder of the pipe went slinging back into the well bore. Yeah - I said a few choice words I can't repeat here.

I figured the whole rig was lost. A placard on the well says the well is 500' deep. So imagine my surprise when I looked down the bore with my flashlight and saw the pump wiring coiled up about 20' down, about 3 or 4' above the waterline. (I still can't figure out why the well is 500' when the water is just 20 or 30' down..or does the well pump draw that way down in normal operation?). Anyway - that means that the pump had only been sitting 10 or 20' above the bottom of the well, so when it dropped down and came to rest, it didn't go very far.

So now I have 400+ feet of PVC pipe down there - but I can't figure out how to wrangle it again.

Yes - I know - stop now, call a professional, and have them fish it out with their custom tools. I'm <--> this close to doing just that.

But (always a but), I'm still intrigued with trying to do it myself (stupidly stubborn, I know). So I've managed to put a fishing hook down the well on paracord and have been successful at snagging the heavy duty wire that goes down to the pump. I can pull the wire taught, but when I try to pull the pump and pipe, it is way too heavy for the fishing hook and it will break. I've experimented with pulling the wire tight, then dropping a real rope down (using the paracord as a taught guide) hoping to get it to go down over the top of the PVC pipe, but I can't see to figure out a way to get the knot to tighten down there. I know how to tie a Prusik, but it's just impossible to get it tight "remotely" without having hands on the knot. I figure I need some sort of custom tool to grab the pipe..and have thought long and hard about it, but haven't really come up with anything easy.

The 20' of pipe that came out of the well when the pipe broke is broken at the joint and is not flush.. I've read various things on the internet about putting a larger diameter pipe over the top of the pipe, but I haven't ascertained if I can do that yet or not (if the pipe is in the center of the bore or leaning against a side).

So - amateur (and professional) engineers - any ideas? Since my house doesn't require this well for immediate purposes, I have time to fiddle with it. If it were my primary water source I'd call a well driller immediately..but this has provided an interesting, if frustrating, puzzle. Once I get the pipe up where I can get a rope around it I have a much, much better system devised for pulling it that will pull it straight up instead of at an angle. And I'm heartened that I can at least see the wire.

A penny for your thoughts (be gentle)..
MK


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## Justaguy987

Duh! I wish this was my problem, I would love to tinker with it till I found a solution and got it out. I look forward to reading the DIY solutions I am sure will be posted and post my own if I get one. One thought is use a PVC pipe to hold the knot in place while you pull it tight. Put a "T" on the end of it so it can not fall down the well. 

Good luck.


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## swjohnsey

You reckon the wires will support the weight of the pump/pipe?

You remember those old kids' toys Chinese finger trap. They make a gizzmo similar to that for pulling pipe


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## Marcus

swjohnsey said:


> You remember those old kids' toys Chinese finger trap. They make a gizzmo similar to that for pulling pipe


That was my first thought too. Here's a few ideas:
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6437

http://www.google.com/patents/US6615919

http://www.justanswer.com/appliance/3zaw9-remove-broken-water-pipe-caseing.html

http://www.google.com/patents/US5029924


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## swjohnsey

I can see guiding something like that over the end of the pipe would be difficult.

Another brain fart:

Picture the caps that are used to hold wheels on axles like kids' wagon or roll out garbage cans. Make something like that out of pipe slighly smaller in diameter than the well casing. Make it like a funnel so that the pump pipe is guided to the middle.


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## LincTex

swjohnsey said:


> You remember those old kids' toys Chinese finger trap. They make a gizzmo similar to that for pulling pipe


Yep, but not sure if it would grab the outside. (PVC pipe is slippery)

There's also a threaded sort of "Easy Out" type of tool you stick inside the pipe and thread in. Have you googled images for pipe retrieving tools?

http://www.google.com/search?q=pipe retrieving tool&safe=images


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## hiwall

Could use a nipple extractor to grip the pipe and pull. You would need a rod or pipe welded to it to make it long enough to reach the broken pipe. Also a small rod on the bottom might help to guide it into the broken pipe. Odds of getting it into the broken pipe would be about the same as winning the lottery. Here is what one looks like(they come in many sizes)-

http://www.toolup.com/pasco_4533_1-...scplp1066754&gclid=CLC5h5Dwp7cCFa9eQgoduVIAqg


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## Elinor0987

If you completely run out of ideas, you could always call the IRS and tell them you found money at the bottom of your well but you can't get to it because of all of the stuff in your way. They'll send a team of agents to take care of your problem.


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## VUnder

I have some old fishing tools laying on a trailer out in my pasture. Have dealt with the same problem a few times before. First, I always put a steel cable on the pump and run it to the top of the well when I put a pump in. That is why I have only helped other people get their pumps out. Just some friendly advice.

Take a large steel pipe, just inside your well diameter. Lets say it is standing on end. Cut some "V's" in it with the point toward the top, an upside down V is what you will be cutting. But it will be a series of long pointed V's, lets say 1 1/2" wide at bottom and go to a point 5" away toward the top of pipe. Put those V's all around that pipe, each place you have room. Now, when you cut the V out, near the peak of the V, you can cut out an area above the V so you can get to that tip real good to sharpen it with a file. We want a needle point on that V tip, then tap the tip to the inside. Do this on every V and keep a piece of that PVC pipe handy so you can tap them all in to just touch the PVC on each and every V. Then go back through and give them all one more smack so they will be a little tight on the PVC. Then, measure how far it is down to the pipe in the well. Measure your apparatus so you will know when you are at the well pipe, and when you have slid down over it. You can make this pipe with the V's six feet long if you want to. I have seen the same thing fish broke casings out of oil wells. If you can make it long enough to slip down and catch under a collar, you got it made. But, don't make the thing too tight if you are going to go over a collar. See, the longer and narrower the V's are, the more chance they will act kinda springy and slide over something, kinda like a one way trap. Like one of them deals you can stick your finger in but you can't pull out. I fished one out once that was 250' down and we was using an old pulp wood truck winch swung off to the side to act as our derrick/winch. But, we got the foot valve out. So, it is possible. If you want to catch a collar, make your pipe open on the top and it needs some length to be heavy. Just pop a hole in it and drop it with a steel cable if it is a ways down to the next coupling. Go easy with it. Maybe make you a piece of metal with a u notch cut in it just the size of the pipe. Then you can slip that under each coupling as you come out the hole. Really, you are tripping pipe. We have a water well rig, and that is all we hold the pipe with is a plate when we are adding or removing joints. I dropped that big old thing in the well once too and fished it out. You can do it. Any questions, I am here.


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## zracer7

VUnder said:


> I have some old fishing tools laying on a trailer out in my pasture. Have dealt with the same problem a few times before. First, I always put a steel cable on the pump and run it to the top of the well when I put a pump in. That is why I have only helped other people get their pumps out. Just some friendly advice.
> 
> Take a large steel pipe, just inside your well diameter. Lets say it is standing on end. Cut some "V's" in it with the point toward the top, an upside down V is what you will be cutting. But it will be a series of long pointed V's, lets say 1 1/2" wide at bottom and go to a point 5" away toward the top of pipe. Put those V's all around that pipe, each place you have room. Now, when you cut the V out, near the peak of the V, you can cut out an area above the V so you can get to that tip real good to sharpen it with a file. We want a needle point on that V tip, then tap the tip to the inside. Do this on every V and keep a piece of that PVC pipe handy so you can tap them all in to just touch the PVC on each and every V. Then go back through and give them all one more smack so they will be a little tight on the PVC. Then, measure how far it is down to the pipe in the well. Measure your apparatus so you will know when you are at the well pipe, and when you have slid down over it. You can make this pipe with the V's six feet long if you want to. I have seen the same thing fish broke casings out of oil wells. If you can make it long enough to slip down and catch under a collar, you got it made. But, don't make the thing too tight if you are going to go over a collar. See, the longer and narrower the V's are, the more chance they will act kinda springy and slide over something, kinda like a one way trap. Like one of them deals you can stick your finger in but you can't pull out. I fished one out once that was 250' down and we was using an old pulp wood truck winch swung off to the side to act as our derrick/winch. But, we got the foot valve out. So, it is possible. If you want to catch a collar, make your pipe open on the top and it needs some length to be heavy. Just pop a hole in it and drop it with a steel cable if it is a ways down to the next coupling. Go easy with it. Maybe make you a piece of metal with a u notch cut in it just the size of the pipe. Then you can slip that under each coupling as you come out the hole. Really, you are tripping pipe. We have a water well rig, and that is all we hold the pipe with is a plate when we are adding or removing joints. I dropped that big old thing in the well once too and fished it out. You can do it. Any questions, I am here.


VUnder, very well described. I can picture what your are describing vividly. Man, I love this site. The things you learn....


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## jeff47041

VUnders idea sounds great.
I was thinking, depending on the diameter of you well casing. If you go to an antique store, everyone that had 3' wide wells with buckets also had a grapple hook in case the rope broke, they could grapple their bucket from the bottom of the well (15-30' down)
Anyway, I always see these grapples at antique stores. Or make one.

I was wondering if you could put a grapple on 500' of rope and send it all the way down and snag the old pump. If that were possible, as you're pulling it up and cutting sections of pvc off you wouldn't have the worry of dropping it again.
The grapple hook I have is only about 3" with 4 sharp hooks. Maybe it would just grab the wire like you were doing with the fishing hook.
All of our wells around here are 3' diameter and 60' deep at the most.
So, what is the diameter of your well casing? The pump is shot, the pvc is brittle. Just get a new pump and new pvc and send the new stuff down beside the old and leave the old one as is??


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## MountainKing

That's a good idea. I was thinking of some sort of "toothy" device that you could slip over the top of the pipe that would slide one way and bite the other and you pretty much described it.

I thought about running a grapple down to the bottom too, but I don't know if there are any "centering" pieces on the pipe that it might get snagged on. At this point, I'm reluctant to put anything down the hole very deep and would rather concentrate on snagging the stuff that I can see at the top.

The well casing is 6 1/2" inside diameter. I believe the casing goes down maybe 25' before that casing ends (I have no idea what the sides of the well consist of)..

Thanks again for the thoughts. I'll let you guys know what I eventually figure out.

MK


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## MountainKing

jeff47041 said:


> The pump is shot, the pvc is brittle. Just get a new pump and new pvc and send the new stuff down beside the old and leave the old one as is??


Yeah - but with a 6 1/2" bore I'm gonna have to get that old stuff out. Particularly if I want to put in a Water Boy or something similar..

MK


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## MountainKing

VUnder - Copied everything you wrote. And yes, I already have the U-shaped board ready to place across the top of the well as each segment comes up to hold the pipe in place as I saw off the PVC above. I'll post pictures once I get some sort of rig up and running..

Regards,
MK


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## backlash

Can you get something inside the pipe?










Make sure the 2 parts can swivel and open like a pocket knife.
Drop it into the pipe as far as it can go and then just pull it back up.
You could even use a long rod that will reach all the way to the pipe and eliminate the rope.
Good luck.


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## VUnder

Your welcome. I looked at my pipes today and thought on it some, and just read what you wrote. If your pump pipe is a lot smaller than your well casing, like one inch or so, you may want to leave those V's flat across the top, maybe half inch wide or so, and bevel them with the sharp side to the inside. If they are too pointed and thin, and leaning in too far, they may curl in and fold over if your pump and all that pvc weigh too much for them. Also, when I said to put a cable on the pipe to let it down, I meant to blow a hole in just one side of the fishing tool so you have nothing across the top of it. I would put a mark or tape on the cable at the place you think you will be hitting the pvc pipe so you know where you are. Then, just jiggle it a little until you feel it slip over the pvc, then let that joker free fall and catch as many couplings as you can. It will always rest on top of a coupling, so you can pick it up twenty feet and drop it again and catch another one or two. I imagine there is a casing all the way down in your well, with a screen on the bottom. It is drilled deeper than needed to provide volume. You must have a submerged pump? Also, if you can't seem to get over the pvc pipe, which I think will be no problem, you can cut the bottom of your fisher on a sharp angle, then you can get to it with a small grinder and bevel the inside out a little. Then there will be no problem. I have seen the other ideas offered, but pvc flexes too much to be worked from the inside. It eggs too easy. Grabbing a collar is the best option. 

When coming out the hole, thinking positive here, you can hold with that block you mentioned. Tie your cable off, just having something stable you can wrap it in a figure eight several times will hold it. Then, tie a rope in a timber hitch on the pipe and tie that off for safety. Three timber hitches is better, one after another on the same rope. If you have help, you can also hold a lot of weight with two pipe wrenches on the pipe with the open sides to you, one wrench directly on top of the other with the handles sticking out to your right and left, pulling both handles to you and binding that pipe in opposite directions. That won't slip. 

I think you got it, now just put your method into motion. Happy Fishing, I hope they are biting.


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## Well_Driller

Whatever you put down inside the well make sure it's not too tight in the well casing especially if it's steel well casing. It may have some scale buildup and that can get a fishing tool that fits too tight inside the well casing stuck... We've had 1500+ lbs of drilling tools not want to go down a hole and get stuck because of scale buildup but this is usually not a big deal with drilling tools because we plan for that and have additional tooling that allows us to get unstuck. So, think it through before you put anything in there, as if you get something else stuck in there on top of what's already down there it will make it that much more difficult. 500ft of PVC pipe full of water and a pump on the end is heavy so make sure you use something strong enough to hold the weight.


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## Tirediron

If the pump pipe is joints of pvc with couplers on the outside you might be able to work a rope around the end and over the coupler and choke the coupler to pull the joint to the surface maybe. the water column should help to float the pump and pipe up to the surface, If you could find a small enough submersible pump to fit into the pvc you could pump the water out and the pump and pipe should float up enough to get a hold of it.
On a side note our deep wells have a flexable heavy wall hose that goes down hole and the only time a pump is lost it is because the adapter fails at the submersible pump, but most have a 1/4 " nylon rope attached to the pump and the water line to share part of the load.


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## MountainKing

Just wanted to let everyone know I haven't forgotten about this project. Life got a bit busy the past few months and I haven't had a chance to do my "fishing expedition"..but I expect to get back at it here in the next week or two. It is always lurking in the back of my mind.. <g>

MK


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## LastOutlaw

Couldnt you just take another piece of pipe, prime and glue a coupler on it then prime and glue the open end of the coupler and slide it down and over the broken pipe, let it dry good then the next day pull it out?


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## terri9630

LastOutlaw said:


> Couldnt you just take another piece of pipe, prime and glue a coupler on it then prime and glue the open end of the coupler and slide it down and over the broken pipe, let it dry good then the next day pull it out?


That might work if you could get the pipes together before the glue dried. Good idea to try.....


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## Justaguy987

Interesting. Very very interesting. A first time poster revives a 3 year old thread, to sell something, and Grimm has not jumped down his throat yet.....she must be giving birth.


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## LastOutlaw

Justaguy987 said:


> Interesting. Very very interesting. A first time poster revives a 3 year old thread, to sell something, and Grimm has not jumped down his throat yet.....she must be giving birth.


LOL... thats funny. I didn't even notice the dates or his sales link.


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## cnsper

Long 5/16 chain with a slip hook on the end to hook the wires with. same principal as the fish hook.


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## chigger digger

I once fashioned a harpoon of sorts out of steel rod and dangled it on a rope and then slid a short piece of pipe down it to drive it into the broken pipe .


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## weedygarden

Justaguy987 said:


> Interesting. Very very interesting. A first time poster revives a 3 year old thread, to sell something, and Grimm has not jumped down his throat yet.....she must be giving birth.


LOL! That is pretty funny.

That post is gone now, isn't it?


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## terri9630

weedygarden said:


> LOL! That is pretty funny.
> 
> That post is gone now, isn't it?


Yes it's gone. I went back to look again and it's not even showing as deleated.


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## crabapple

We have pulled the broken PVC pipe by the wires, it is not the best thing but it worked.
We drop a metal 3/8 pipe into a well, the well was 100' deep, but the pipe stood about 60' up. My father some how threaded the pipe back in the coupling & we pulled the pipe out to replace it. But no one uses steel threaded pipe much anymore, it is all PVC slip pipe.

Your problem give me an Ideal!
Next time I replace a pump, I am going to tie a Stainless steel cable to it, so I can pull it out with out, without braking the wire.


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## Country Living

Dangputer2 said:


> I used this worked like a charm


New person whose only thread has a link..... I reported him.


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## terri9630

Country Living said:


> New person whose only thread has a link..... I reported him.


I can't even see that post anymore. Unless he posted again it was from somewhere around July or Aug.


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## Country Living

Admin removed it.


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