# What can we learn from the Hippies?



## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

I know that Hippie Punching is all the rage and the phrase "Get a job Hippie" will never lose its panache, but maybe these trailblazers of the "back to the Earth movement" have lessons for us.

There is a hippie commune in Tennessee called The Farm:

The Farm was established after Gaskin and friends led a caravan of 60 buses, vans, and trucks on a speaking tour across the US. Along the way, they checked out various places that might be suitable for settlement before deciding on Tennessee.[2] After buying 1,064 acres (4.1 km2) for $70 per acre, the Farm began building its community in the woods alongside the network of crude logging roads that followed its ridgelines. Another adjoining 750 acres (3.0 km2) for $100 per acre was purchased shortly thereafter. . . . .​
The most obvious lesson was that communism and sharing were not viable practices in a community and were later abandoned.

What do you think that Hippies could teach us?


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

Hey, Like Dude, like cool man.

Like Dude, Make Love not war, like peace out dude.

Smoking dope makes you very literate; like you know what I mean? like...hey man can you dig it?

Tugs


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

The major lesson was that you can not count on others to provide for you. This set up required that everyone help out and obviously that is not what happened.

This is a commune..... This is a commune on drugs!!!


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

The same things you can learn from the far right failures. That extremes are bad and any good idea can be taken too far.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

bahramthered said:


> The same things you can learn from the far right failures. That extremes are bad and any good idea can be taken too far.


I like your attempt to develop an equivalence. The thing is simply stating that an equivalence exists doesn't actually make the case that an equivalence exists.

Help a poor ignorant fool out and show evidence of "far right" failures in these small experimental communities. I want to learn what you KNOW. I can't recall any "far-right" equivalents to hippie communes. When did these "far right" small community experiments happen, who went to them, what were the principles that they were organized under? I think that these are fascinating questions and I'm prepared to learn what you KNOW about their failures if only you will share what you KNOW. Will you? You do have evidence in support of your statement, right?


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Commune? It would be groovy if I could just find one that didn't have all those rules and $hit.

Hey, man. I gotta split. Have ta head down to the free clinic -- think I got a dose of the clap from Moonlight, or was it Earthflower? Or maybe it was.....uhhh. What was I saying? Hey. Got any weed, man? Weed makes me, like, you know, smart and energetic and everything.

Anyhow, then I'm gonna split this place for good. They want me to, like, you know, like, work and everything. What a drag. Speakin of drag...uh, like, ya got any weed, man? Weed makes me, like, you know, like, smart and energetic and everything.

Gotta go, man. I gotta take a nap.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

bahramthered said:


> The same things you can learn from the far right failures. That extremes are bad and any good idea can be taken too far.


Uhhh, surely you are not calling communism a good idea?


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

bahramthered said:


> The same things you can learn from the far right failures. That extremes are bad and any good idea can be taken too far.


That's a good statement to be made about our federal gov't in my opinion. I believe it applies far more to the liberal left though, because I dont think there's really much representation of the conservative right. Until the tea party got active for the last 15 years it was mostly RINO's with a few legit statesmen who would tell it like it is.

Unfortunately, on both sides, there's far too many people who absolutely feel like they MUST force their will on everyone in the entire country. Marijuana, Abortion and minimum wage laws for example... NONE of these are federal issues. None of them should be federal laws. What does the minimum wage law in Vermont have to do with National Defense as a true obligation of the Fed Govt? Nothing... Same with the rights of a female to have an abortion much less one funded or co-funded by taxpayers.

A "reset" of one form or another is the only way to get us back to states rights and less intrusion by the Feds... and it sure doesn't look like it will happen by the popular vote based on the last election cycle (although a LOT can be said about the horrendously incompetent campaigns run by the last 3 failed Rep candidates...)


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Hey, this commune has existed for 41 years. To me that's a long enough period to indicate that the system they have can be sustained. Now it may well be that the system that they have is basically just our system and that they no longer subscribe to hippy-dippy values. I read that the chief hippie makes money by touring the country giving lectures and by writing books, and sit down for this, he charges for those lectures and books rather than sharing them with those who want them or need them.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> I like your attempt to develop an equivalence. The thing is simply stating that an equivalence exists doesn't actually make the case that an equivalence exists.
> 
> Help a poor ignorant fool out and show evidence of "far right" failures in these small experimental communities. I want to learn what you KNOW. I can't recall any "far-right" equivalents to hippie communes. When did these "far right" small community experiments happen, who went to them, what were the principles that they were organized under? I think that these are fascinating questions and I'm prepared to learn what you KNOW about their failures if only you will share what you KNOW. Will you? You do have evidence in support of your statement, right?


I'm guessing he wants to call things like David Koresh a "right wing"... commune/compound/failed whatever. And while there are things that Branch Davidians believed that do align with Tea Party/Conservative values such as limited govt, no/few taxes, 2A, etc... if that's the case he wants to make he's going to be completely glossing over other core values like a traditional family, no child molestation and no cults which are big negatives on the Conservative platform.

I mean other than that, I dont see how he's going to taint the right with the muck that the left thrives on.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Dakine said:


> I'm guessing he wants to call things like David Koresh a "right wing"... commune/compound/failed whatever.


That's interesting.

I wonder if that was his intent because my guess was that he didn't actually have any examples in mind and simply framed the response as "You guys do it too!!!!!" in order to find license to say that communism is unworkable when put into practice thereby shifting the locus of failure away from leftist core principles and onto people who take ANY principles to the extreme.



> And while there are things that Branch Davidians believed that do align with Tea Party/Conservative values such as limited govt, no/few taxes, 2A, etc... if that's the case he wants to make he's going to be completely glossing over other core values like a traditional family, no child molestation and no cults which are big negatives on the Conservative platform.


This really is an interesting example that you choose. Why though did the Branch Davidians fail? Communism fails from internal fractures where theory doesn't line up with how humans actually live. Branch Davidians fail when liberals order them to be firebombed and shot.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> Help a poor ignorant fool out and show evidence of "far right" failures in these small experimental communities. I want to learn what you KNOW. I can't recall any "far-right" equivalents to hippie communes. When did these "far right" small community experiments happen, who went to them, what were the principles that they were organized under? I think that these are fascinating questions and I'm prepared to learn what you KNOW about their failures if only you will share what you KNOW. Will you? You do have evidence in support of your statement, right?


I can think of numerous far-right equivalents. Why there's those uber-conservative Amish whose disdain for that new fangled electricity is well known. Then there's the Mennonites.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*So like?*



Bobbb said:


> Hey, this commune has existed for 41 years. To me that's a long enough period to indicate that the system they have can be sustained. Now it may well be that the system that they have is basically just our system and that they no longer subscribe to hippy-dippy values. I read that the chief hippie makes money by touring the country giving lectures and by writing books, and sit down for this, he charges for those lectures and books rather than sharing them with those who want them or need them.


So like, they are a commune of Republicans now ? :scratch


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

BillM said:


> So like, they are a commune of Republicans now ? :scratch


I wonder how many people are actually qualified to claim themselves as either D or R? can they even articulate what their parties planks are, what the others parties planks are how those affect policy which affects our economy and then on to other more global impacts as it ripples outward.

I personally do not like the thought of a 3rd party because I don't see any examples of how it's helped, on the other hand, what we've got going these days is just as bad and getting worse, so why not???


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I suspect there are a few of those Conservative compounds around but they routinely fly below the radar. I THINK I know of one in my area that is a community but they are so secretive it isn't even known in the small communities around them what they are but they are quiet keep to thmselves and cause no problems. But perhaps we should wait for Bar to respond rather than trying to put words into his mouth. I am interested to hear what he has to say.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> I suspect there are a few of those Conservative compounds around but they routinely fly below the radar. I THINK I know of one in my area that is a community but they are so secretive it isn't even known in the small communities around them what they are but they are quiet keep to thmselves and cause no problems. But perhaps we should wait for Bar to respond rather than trying to put words into his mouth. I am interested to hear what he has to say.


me too, we'll have to wait and see if he checks this thread again


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## cm4ever (Oct 26, 2012)

Dakine said:


> I'm guessing he wants to call things like David Koresh a "right wing"... commune/compound/failed whatever. And while there are things that Branch Davidians believed that do align with Tea Party/Conservative values such as limited govt, no/few taxes, 2A, etc... if that's the case he wants to make he's going to be completely glossing over other core values like a traditional family, no child molestation and no cults which are big negatives on the Conservative platform.
> 
> I mean other than that, I dont see how he's going to taint the right with the muck that the left thrives on.


What gets me is that the right wing thinks if they were in charge and in full control of everything so we return back to the "50's" mentality that all these horrible things that are happening would be ok (like the huge divide of wealth and the lack of middle class, teenage pregenacy, abuse and molestation wouldn't be happening.) Cause that's laffable. Those things all happened all the time, just noone talked about it.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

cm4ever said:


> What gets me is that the right wing thinks if they were in charge and in full control of everything so we return back to the "50's" mentality that all these horrible things that are happening would be ok (like the huge divide of wealth and the lack of middle class, teenage pregenacy, abuse and molestation wouldn't be happening.) Cause that's laffable. Those things all happened all the time, just noone talked about it.


Laughable to people who don't know what they're talking about, yeah maybe, but to people who know the statistics, no, there's nothing to laugh about.

The "huge divide of wealth" was less in the 50s than now. Check out this graph:










More people were married in the 1950s than now and married life has a wonderful effect on cutting down poverty rates. Do I need to explain why this is so? Secondly, the US was still in the period where there was an immigration moratorium and the labor scarcity that this produced really advantaged the poor and the middle class by driving up wages (how else do you think a working husband alone could support a family (as was more often the case back then rather than a two person working household)). Notice how income inequality started its big rise just as the US opened up the immigration pipeline in 1965. Why would that surprise anyone except liberals? More people in the workforce leads to less bargaining power for workers and more power to people with money, the employers.

Illegitimate births in 1950 were 40 per 1,000 live births according to the CDC. Today they are through the roof, with an overall rate of 408 per 1,000 live births and check out what's going on in the black community where the illegitimacy rate is now 723 per 1,000 lives births.










If we could magically be transported back to the 50s we'd have less poverty, a larger middle class, wages increasing, more stable families, less problems with children arising from being raised in single parent households, less crime, less isolation and more connection to neighbors and community, in short we'd have a stronger society and that benefits everyone.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Bobbb, that also coincides with LBJ's "Great Society" of massive giveaways that economically enslaved a large chunk of the black population and lots of whites, too. 

So, lots of Americans realized they didn't have to work but the open immigration policy filled the void. That resulted in a double benefit (triple if you include the 18 year old vote that came a few years later) for liberal democrats. After all, what welfare recipient, immigrant or youngster is going to vote against themselves.

The result will be the collapse of America as we know it, because as many others have said, when the takers outnumber the makers, we are doomed.

Back to the OP, I don't think the hippies in communes have anything to teach us, but the last century should have taught anyone with a brain -- once and for all -- that communism on a governmental level will always result in oppression and slaughter.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

If we start to become third world as so many think that we are going to become, you might as well prepare yourselves for the commune living or Village living ( think africia)

The thing with commune or communities is the cult mentality possibility. Yeah, you may be able to survive, but to compromise your freedom to a cult? Cult is a strong word, I know.

Locally, next weekend there is a group or community that will be presenting How To Start a community, as they've been asked about this. Of course, this group is of like minded religious individuals.

One sells their stuff, get invested into the community, only to find someone there is preying on children or people and you are stuck,! I feel, no statistics but a feeling, that numbers are high as for molestation of any kind within these communities because of the closeness of living together all the time. It is slightly different than seeing someone everyday to work together. This one community that I know, eats all their meals together as well. No privacy? I couldn't be around folks that much!!!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

There's nothing good to learn from the hippies. They were dirty, immoral, sponged off other people, squatted on the land of others and left trash, thought they were better than anyone else, thought they knew more about love when they knew nothing, used drugs, and were wrong about the war.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

BillS said:


> There's nothing good to learn from the hippies. They were dirty, immoral, sponged off other people, squatted on the land of others and left trash, thought they were better than anyone else, thought they knew more about love when they knew nothing, used drugs, and were wrong about the war.


WOW Sounds like the Occupy movements in some respect!


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Yeah could see me joining a group that worked the way you describe. Not selling everything I"ve worked for, not going about unarmed either and that will solve the child molestation as I'd kill any mfer I cought doing that and that is just a fact. Yeah I"ll suffer the consequences I don't care that is too sick and would trip my trigger. 

As for the inequal spread of wealth divide growing it is growing at the same rate people dicede they shouldn't have to work for a living. Of course they still think they should be millionaires but they shouldn't have to WORK for it. IN the fifties every household Had a working man in it (over generalization I know) and kids usually found chores to do for OTHERS for money too and somtimes some of that money was expected in the FAMILY budget too. Work ethic was taught by example from an early age. No such thing today everyone sits around figuring out the easiest way to get by and how to beat and cheat the system to do it. No work and no ETHICS.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

DJgang said:


> If we start to become third world as so many think that we are going to become, you might as well prepare yourselves for the commune living or Village living ( think africia)
> 
> The thing with commune or communities is the cult mentality possibility. Yeah, you may be able to survive, but to compromise your freedom to a cult? Cult is a strong word, I know.
> 
> ...


There's good and bad to that, I mean given the scenario of a decline of standard of living into a 3rd world nation. For the unprepared all of a sudden they aren't alone. But just because I'm alone doesn't mean I'm not prepared, why should I offer up my "stuff" because they were busy buying bling? I've had enough of that nonsense with all the taxes we pay now. 

it will be interesting times I guess. I need a backup plan in case I lose this place, who knows what could happen, landlord loses it to the bank and then I get evicted by the bank, or I lose my job but not part of a giant collapse so there is still a market for it to be rented out to paying tenants, etc...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Hard for me to understand how anyone could say there was nothing to learn from a group of people, let alone a huge cultural movement. If you see these occurrences as experiments and have a open mind you should certainly be able to learn something.
The best known "right wing" version I can think of is the fictional Galt's gulch. I personally think it is flawed but so is any community.
As for "hippies" in general most people would say I am the polar opposite. However I have at times learned about wild edibles, alternative power, wine making, beekeeping and many other topics from people who would be classed as such.
I think we should take any info we need, consider it's source and inherent biases, and then use it.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> Hard for me to understand how anyone could say there was nothing to learn from a group of people, let alone a huge cultural movement. If you see these occurrences as experiments and have a open mind you should certainly be able to learn something.
> The best known "right wing" version I can think of is the fictional Galt's gulch. I personally think it is flawed but so is any community.
> As for "hippies" in general most people would say I am the polar opposite. However I have at times learned about wild edibles, alternative power, wine making, beekeeping and many other topics from people who would be classed as such.
> I think we should take any info we need, consider it's source and inherent biases, and then use it.


I agree with you, and to some extent the hippies too. Getting back to our roots and being better stewards of nature and our food process is only good common sense. Like you mention beekeeping but also growing our own garden food and if people are able to, eggs and such at home too!

Those are clearly things that the hippies would identify with, but where I can't follow them is the commune living. For example, I'd probably be really unhappy if hippie #8 thought it was a full days work for her to meditate and put out good vibes while another dozen hippies was out working the gardens and doing manual labor type stuff.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> IN the fifties every household Had a working man in it (over generalization I know) and kids usually found chores to do for OTHERS for money too and somtimes some of that money was expected in the FAMILY budget too. Work ethic was taught by example from an early age. No such thing today everyone sits around figuring out the easiest way to get by and how to beat and cheat the system to do it. No work and no ETHICS.


A good point about how most families had men who worked. Check it out:










Hardly any births to single moms, most people were married, a lower divorce rate, most homes with kids had a father present, those fathers worked and set a good example for kids, most kids had chores that are today done by illegal immigrants, most homes had mothers at home to care for the children thus benefiting the children's development rather than having them raised by minimum wage day-care providers.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> However I have at times learned about wild edibles, alternative power, wine making, beekeeping and many other topics from people who would be classed as such.
> I think we should take any info we need, consider it's source and inherent biases, and then use it.


I think the intent of the OP was, what can we learn from their culture, meaning something exclusive to the hippy lifestyle. *"wild edibles, alternative power, wine making, beekeeping and many other topics" * were not developed by the hippies. They learned them from someone else.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

So what were the uniquely hippy things. low rate of bathing, screwing anything that moved, doing dope, and a horrid dress code. Guess there wasn't anything to learn from them. OH and dirty long hair. silly little rose colored glasses, and reaaallly slow drawn ouuut sppeeaakking Maaaan. course that may have just been the southern hippies


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

In terms of this commune they did something that most people never do, which is that they formed a group, bought land, and decided to live together on that land. In the big picture, they purposely tied their fates together with other people. Can you think of some examples, other than the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, which even approach that type of commitment?

In a post-SHTF world where the lone wolf might have trouble surviving these types of cooperative enclaves might spell the difference between surviving and perishing or between surviving and thriving.


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## neworchard18 (Nov 28, 2012)

hippy is "one who embraces life to the fullest. Promotes peace, love and happiness, but sure as hell sticks up for what they believe in. Anyone can be a hippie, not just that dirty dread-locked tie-dyed pothead with the dead shirt on. "

A lot of hippies did not live in communes but just in family units. Like us. We adopted the original concept of hippidom. Rejecting a lot of the stilted ideas and ideals of our parents. Living a different life than 9 to 5. Moving back to the land and choosing a simpler way of life. Being self sufficient. 

The only hippies who got real press were those involved in the music scene and the drug scene and all the counter culture stuff. The ones who made quiet and gentle lives for themselves were/are ignored. And these are the hippies who are still hippies today.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

neworchard18 said:


> hippy is "one who embraces life to the fullest. Promotes peace, love and happiness, but sure as hell sticks up for what they believe in. Anyone can be a hippie, not just that dirty dread-locked tie-dyed pothead with the dead shirt on. "
> 
> A lot of hippies did not live in communes but just in family units. Like us. We adopted the original concept of hippidom. Rejecting a lot of the stilted ideas and ideals of our parents. Living a different life than 9 to 5. Moving back to the land and choosing a simpler way of life. Being self sufficient.
> 
> The only hippies who got real press were those involved in the music scene and the drug scene and all the counter culture stuff. The ones who made quiet and gentle lives for themselves were/are ignored. And these are the hippies who are still hippies today.



No True Scotsman.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

I quoted the wrong post...see next post..


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

BillS said:


> There's nothing good to learn from the hippies. They were dirty, immoral, sponged off other people, squatted on the land of others and left trash, thought they were better than anyone else, thought they knew more about love when they knew nothing, used drugs, and were wrong about the war.


There's much to disagree with here but what really stands out is saying they were wrong about the Vietnam War when history has proved they were right...


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Not sure that is exactly the case here Bobbb he didn't say that the dope heads and such werent true hippies he just said that he also considers him self a hippie and chose not to participate in what some of the hippies are known to do. So was more admitting that some hippies do all the bad as well as the good but some stick to the good and stay away from the bad. And he is correct that only the worst of about any group ever get the press. LIke libertarians, tea partiers, conservatives, liberals, etc only the drama gets reported.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> Not sure that is exactly the case here Bobbb he didn't say that the dope heads and such werent true hippies he just said that he also considers him self a hippie and chose not to participate in what some of the hippies are known to do. So was more admitting that some hippies do all the bad as well as the good but some stick to the good and stay away from the bad. And he is correct that only the worst of about any group ever get the press. LIke libertarians, tea partiers, conservatives, liberals, etc only the drama gets reported.


There was a made-up definition of hippie which likely flatters Neworchard's self image. Then there was the exclusion of the ethos of the hippies from the 60s. He/she has redefined hippie to mean "simple life" and "back to the land."

This is classic "No True Scotsman" fallacy being played out. The puzzling aspect of this is why even bother going to the trouble of salvaging the reputation of hippie by adopting it and redefining it. Who would bother to go and adopt the label of pedophile and then claim that this identifies a group who likes to walk?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

hip·pie
[hip-ee] Show IPA

noun 
a person, especially of the late 1960s, who rejected established institutions and values and sought spontaneity, direct personal relations expressing love, and expanded consciousness, often expressed externally in the wearing of casual, folksy clothing and of beads, headbands, used garments, etc.

hip·pie also hip·py (hp)
n. pl. hip·pies 
A person who opposes and rejects many of the conventional standards and customs of society, especially one who advocates extreme liberalism in sociopolitical attitudes and lifestyles.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are definitions I could find on line at least ones that stuck to facts and didn't start running off to tangents. Id say they aren't that far off frim his.

Just sayin I don't think the Drugs and stuff though I myself tend to think of them that way, were really their definition. Some did and I can beleive that some did not. I guess it depends some on who writes the definition. Who is the one qualified to do that? Probably be someone a few years older than me as I kinda came into the world in the tail end of it and it wasn't that prevalent out here anyway. The ones I did see really weren't as bad as the sterotyped on the tv ones at least as best I can recall.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

horseman09 said:


> I think the intent of the OP was, what can we learn from their culture, meaning something exclusive to the hippy lifestyle. *"wild edibles, alternative power, wine making, beekeeping and many other topics" * were not developed by the hippies. They learned them from someone else.


While they certainly did not invent these fields, the movement and individuals within it did make contributions in many areas. They experimented with a lot of different ways of doing things, either because they didn't know how it was typically done or because of their philosophy of supposedly being open minded. Just a few examples I have seen are hand built savonius rotors, the first top bar hives in our area, and some really awesome mead.
They also were a big part of the appropriate technology movement (flawed as it may have been) which certainly gave the world a lot of ideas if nothing else. The whole earth catalog is pretty awesome.
My point was that I would never discount an entire chunk of history because I disagreed with the people's ideas. 
It is easy to recognize that promiscuity, rampant drug use, freeloading, a sense of entitlement are all bad things, and then move on.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> In terms of this commune they did something that most people never do, which is that they formed a group, bought land, and decided to live together on that land. In the big picture, they purposely tied their fates together with other people. Can you think of some examples, other than the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, which even approach that type of commitment?
> 
> In a post-SHTF world where the lone wolf might have trouble surviving these types of cooperative enclaves might spell the difference between surviving and perishing or between surviving and thriving.


Possibly. Then again, they might be a dinner bell for the zombies.

One stop shopping for slaves, women, food, possibly some pot and booze... whats not to like? Oh yeah, and they are 100% unarmed, unless they are "militant" in which case a lot of the folksy stuff may just be for show and they don't really mean it.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

The Pilgrams had a commune when they first landed on Plymoth rock.

They agreed to plant and harvest together , sharing everything.

Unfortunatly , after trying this for two years and starving because the young single men would not work but still ate like feild hands, they divided up the property and lived with enough to eat.

I think somthing like 2o % of them were still alive.


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## neworchard18 (Nov 28, 2012)

I am always rather surprised that people are so quick to believe and use sterotypes. Do you honestly believe that all hippies are long haired, unwashed Manson Family-drug addicted-sex orgy-commune types? That would be like saying all ******** are banjo picking-perverted-sister marrying-squirrel hunters living in filthy, toothless poverty. The ******** I know are all church going-family protecting-hard working blue, green, white collar-kids playing baseball and wearing braces types.

The hippies I knew (and still know) were/are all different types from idealistic young college students to devoted wilderness families to social workers and homecare nurses to the original organic/permaculture farmers to wild and crazy musicians who did use drugs but their commonality was a desire to live free and independent, not be controlled by the rules made up by others and to speak up for the things that they wanted changed.

There is a lot that everyone could learn from them.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

neworchard18 said:


> I am always rather surprised that people are so quick to believe and use sterotypes.


Oh brother. You have no basis to make this charge. What you're saying here is "I'm surprised that people use definitions that differ from my own made-up definition of what hippie means."

Here is Encyclopedia Britannica:

They favoured long hair and casual, often unconventional, dress, sometimes in "psychedelic" colours. Many males grew beards, and both men and women wore sandals and beads. Long, flowing granny dresses were popular with women, and rimless granny glasses with both men and women. Hippies commonly took up communal or cooperative living arrangements, and they often adopted vegetarian diets based on unprocessed foods and practiced holistic medicine. For many The Whole Earth Catalog, which first appeared in 1968, became a source for the necessities of life. Hippies tended to be dropouts from society, forgoing regular jobs and careers, although some developed small businesses that catered to other hippies.

Hippies advocated nonviolence and love, a popular phrase being "Make love, not war," for which they were sometimes called "flower children." They promoted openness and tolerance as alternatives to the restrictions and regimentation they saw in middle-class society. Hippies often practiced open sexual relationships and lived in various types of family groups. They commonly sought spiritual guidance from sources outside the Judeo-Christian tradition, particularly Buddhism and other Eastern religions, and sometimes in various combinations. Astrology was popular, and the period was often referred to as the Age of Aquarius. Hippies promoted the recreational use of hallucinogenic drugs, particularly marijuana and LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), in so-called head trips, justifying the practice as a way of expanding consciousness.​
Your definition of hippie meaning someone who engages in a back to the Earth lifestyle and practices permaculture is nonsensical in that you might as well say that everyone who drinks water is also a hippie because being a hippie involved drinking water to prevent dehydration.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Neworchard, why not link to a definition of hippie that you're using and show us how it differs from what you call the stereotype that people are referencing? Surely some online dictionary or other source must have a description of what hippie means that aligns with the vision that you're using. Educate us.


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## neworchard18 (Nov 28, 2012)

Don't be silly Bobbb. It is not my job to educate you. I have given you something better than a link to a definition. I have given you personal testimony. Lived it and in many ways still living it. WE were the hippies who decided to do things very differently than our suburban parents, went back to the land, farmed organically and practiced permaculture (although it was not called this back then and we did not know it was an actual science just that the old farmers and agronomist showed us a lot of ways to live in harmony with the land and how to set up a self sustaining system). Not all who started with us finished. Many left and became the lawyers and doctors and soccer moms of the 1980s but other young people – new hippies – kept joining. And if you look around you will see even newer ones. 

If the definition of a hippy from the Encyclopedia is what you think makes a hippy then it really is quite laughable.

“They favoured long hair” - 

Yes mine was down to my waist but then again so was everyone else's in the 60s and 70s. My banker at the time had shoulder length hair. Long hair is part of fashion and always has been. And unless my eyes deceive me a lot of young men have long hair today and not just rock stars. 

“and casual, often unconventional, dress, sometimes in “psychedelic” colours.” 

Yes. and you can buy many of the same fabrics and patterns today not to mention the styles have resurfaced. Unconventional dress such as mini skirts and peasant blouses or Nehru jackets became CONVENTIAL dress. Everyone was wearing them. In fact the fashion industry became a capitalists dream and designers such as Mary Quant revitalized it from dull and boring Chanel suits and pill box hats to exciting and youthful not to mention sexy. Other than that hippies wore a lot of jeans and tee shirts. Is it the headscarves and headbands that hippies wore that bothers you? Well baseball caps bother me.

“Many males grew beards, and both men and women wore sandals and beads.” 

Men have always had beards and moustaches and even sideburns – not a new fangled idea of the hippies. Just look at photographs of Civil War era men. Now-a-days men wear that stubble look but it is pretentious and designed to make them look toughly masculine. Hippies did it because they had no desire to shave everyday. Sandals make hundreds of millions of dollars in sales for the shoe industry every year and always have particularly in warm climates. Beads? You mean jewellrey? Hippy beads did not have the same meaning as Mardigras beads.LOL! 

“Long, flowing granny dresses were popular with women, and rimless granny glasses with both men and women.”

Again just a fashion statement – like shoulder pads for women were popular in the 1940s and then again in the 1990s and big sunglasses were made popular by Jackie Kennedy. 

“Hippies commonly took up communal or cooperative living arrangements”

Yes and yet many others lived as couples – married or not – or just had girl and boy friends or both. Many banded together to buy or rent land or buildings so that they could farm or open stores or cafes. Not all communal arrangements were sex based although if that titillates you….

“and they often adopted vegetarian diets based on unprocessed foods” 

You mean like before Swanson TV dinners?

“and practiced holistic medicine”. 

Yes like millions of people all over the world are doing today and as everyday Americans did in the 1920s. 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s before the big pharma companies took over. 

“For many The Whole Earth Catalog, which first appeared in 1968, became a source for the necessities of life.” 

Don’t forget the Mother Earth news and the Sears Catalogue.

“Hippies tended to be dropouts from society, forgoing regular jobs and careers, although some developed small businesses that catered to other hippies.”

Yes they did which is kinda the point – getting away from conventional living just as so many people today are trying to do including homesteaders and survivalists. And as for businesses – supply and demand.

“Hippies advocated nonviolence and love, a popular phrase being “Make love, not war,” for which they were sometimes called “flower children.” They promoted openness and tolerance as alternatives to the restrictions and regimentation they saw in middle-class society. “

What horrible people. Too bad there are no people like this today. Sarcasm intended.

“Hippies often practiced open sexual relationships and lived in various types of family groups.” 

Yes, they were the first to ever do this as no college students or adults ever had sex before marriage before the hippies did it or had babies out of wedlock. And no Christians ever practiced a different family group from the nuclear family …such as polygamy.

“They commonly sought spiritual guidance from sources outside the Judeo-Christian tradition, particularly Buddhism and other Eastern religions, and sometimes in various combinations. Astrology was popular, and the period was often referred to as the Age of Aquarius.” 

Nothing wrong with seeking spiritual enlightenment. Who says that the Judeo-Christian tradition has got it right or got all the answers? They are not the first nor likely to be the last religion. Astrology has been around for a long time and in fact is anchored from the beginning in European religious history. Newspaper astrology charts and predictions were popular long before the hippies. Carl Jung did not believe in newspaper horoscopes but he did believe in the possibility that astrology could inform us about the human mind – on a very general level. And he was definitely not a hippie.

“Hippies promoted the recreational use of hallucinogenic drugs, particularly marijuana and LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), in so-called head trips, justifying the practice as a way of expanding consciousness.”

Well it certainly expanded consciousness but hippies were buying these drugs from long established drug dealers – did you think that no one was using or making in the 1950s? Ha! The only difference, as with sex, was that people were more hypocritical before the hippies - lying to the world and each other.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

Not sure I'm remotely relevant to the conversation anymore. And since I seemed to have hijacked it by an off the cuff remark I'm not sure my response is even welcome. Which among other things has demanded justification and examples. 

I also think neworchard18 really hit a nail on the head. A person can ascribe to a group and have marginal mainstream ties. Or as some have chosen the extreme stereotypes. 

Seriously can you object to being called the crazy prepper with guns if your allowed to call someone else your chosen sterotypes? I say no, but then I'm one of those crazy liberals. I see value in both sides. 

I mean put really black and white most of you feed your kids regardless if they can/or do their chores. I mean physically able to do them, you don't demand the kid in the hospital bed to mow the yard or walk the dog (unless your my family) for dinner. Isn't that socialistic? Maybe Communism? Depends how you define the terms. 

-Starting to get drunk so I'm going to call the post.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

neworchard18 said:


> Don't be silly Bobbb. It is not my job to educate you. I have given you something better than a link to a definition. I have given you personal testimony.


So if I tell you that I'm a black man or that I'm a woman, my personal testimony overrides objective definition? How about if I point to the sun and declare that it's bright green rays warm my skin? Does my personal testimony about sunlight being green take precedence over objective definitions. How about my personal testimony that one should stop at green lights and proceed through the intersection when one has a red light? Should I give the police officer a talking-to for blaming me for an accident by relying on stereotypes of how drivers should behave when confronted by lights on a traffic signal?

Instead of taking issue with Britannica and accusing everyone of relying on stereotypes why don't you just link to the definition of hippie that you're using? You accused everyone of being wrong, so show us a definition of hippie that backs up your vision. Pretty simple really. Your personal testimony gambit just reinforces my point that you're making stuff up.


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## neworchard18 (Nov 28, 2012)

I did not accuse everyone of being wrong. I gave you my opinion - which differs from yours. And yes my personal testimony is valuable. If you have lived as a black man or a woman then your personal testimony about that experience would also be valuable. 

The fact that you call me a liar and fantasist for no reason other than it seems to really bother you that I think your opinion is based on no actual experience and just stereotypical ideas shows you to be a very small minded and rude person. Very sad behaviour. 

So to sum up - yes you can learn a lot from the hippies of old and from the new generation of hippies because they have experienced many different ways of living and will continue to live lives that are experimental.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

neworchard18 said:


> I did not accuse everyone of being wrong. I gave you my opinion - which differs from yours. And yes my personal testimony is valuable. If you have lived as a black man or a woman then your personal testimony about that experience would also be valuable.
> 
> The fact that you call me a liar and fantasist for no reason other than it seems to really bother you that I think your opinion is based on no actual experience and just stereotypical ideas shows you to be a very small minded and rude person. Very sad behaviour.
> 
> So to sum up - yes you can learn a lot from the hippies of old and from the new generation of hippies because they have experienced many different ways of living and will continue to live lives that are experimental.


NO18...welcome to the board! I see you're finding out what the rest of us have known for far too long: that Bobbb despises liberals and is relentless and repetitive in his attacks on them...I guess he thinks it has something to do with preparing for emergencies but I can't see the connection...


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*My wife*



neworchard18 said:


> hippy is "one who embraces life to the fullest. Promotes peace, love and happiness, but sure as hell sticks up for what they believe in. Anyone can be a hippie, not just that dirty dread-locked tie-dyed pothead with the dead shirt on. "
> 
> A lot of hippies did not live in communes but just in family units. Like us. We adopted the original concept of hippidom. Rejecting a lot of the stilted ideas and ideals of our parents. Living a different life than 9 to 5. Moving back to the land and choosing a simpler way of life. Being self sufficient.
> 
> The only hippies who got real press were those involved in the music scene and the drug scene and all the counter culture stuff. The ones who made quiet and gentle lives for themselves were/are ignored. And these are the hippies who are still hippies today.


My wife is a little more "hippie" than she used to be but she had two kids and we are a right smart older now than in the sixtys ! !


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

neworchard18 said:


> I did not accuse everyone of being wrong. I gave you my opinion - which differs from yours.


Your first comment was this: _"hippy is "one who embraces life to the fullest. Promotes peace, love and happiness, but sure as hell sticks up for what they believe in."_

My response to you was that you were engaged in a logical fallacy. You're making up definitions and then you're claiming that people who reference standard definitions are engaged in stereotyping. What is hippie, what is green, what the color of sunlight is, are not matters open to opinion.

How do you imagine that people can communicate with each other if everyone has unique definitions for standard words? If I say I have a headache and I mean that I feel joint pain in my knees, then my unique definition of what headache means is going to confuse people who think it means that there is a pain in my head.



> And yes my personal testimony is valuable.


If you can't speak a common language, then no, it's not valuable, it's confusing.



> If you have lived as a black man or a woman then your personal testimony about that experience would also be valuable.


If I'm a redheaded Irishman or a blond Swedish man and I tell you to your face that I'm a black Yoruba woman, then my personal testimony is gibberish.

Look, all I'm asking it to learn from you. You've trotted out a completely new definition of hippie that I, and likely everyone else on this board, has never seen used anywhere else, and you could help broaden understanding of the English language by simply pointing us to where you first learned this definition. What dictionary did you pick this up from, what Encyclopedia has a description of hippies which matches your definition. Point us to something other than your whim for if we all make up definitions to suit ourselves then all communication becomes incomprehensible. Look back on your first comment. It was made to educate us, you offered up a definition in order to enlighten us, so don't stop with the job half-completed, finish what you started and show us where this definition that you offered can be read.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Another thread gone to He11.

Good job Bobbb. Start a thread and as usual, find a way to turn it into another bash the lib rant. vract:


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