# Military phonics, Police or?



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

SHTF
TEOTWAWKI
WWROL

Ideas on which would be preferred? 

Military Phonics.
Police Phonics.
Custom Phonics.
Other.

Clint Eastwood movie, "The Good, the Bad, the Ugly". Clint and Tuco are riding a wagon blending in by wearing Confederate uniforms. The troops riding towards them wearing gray uniforms too until they knock off the trail dust to reveal Union blue. Prison camp (FEMA) is the next stop for Clint & Tuco.

There may be times masquerading as a military unit could be beneficial, other times it could work against your MAG. 

IMHO it will be hard enough for Civilians to maintain radio discipline so learning 3 set of Phonics would be asking too much, simple would be better (KISS).

Appreciate ideas inside and outside the box.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

For group security custom phonics would be best. Having a list of other groups info could be helpful as well. 10-3 in my husbands department means "cancel" but may mean attack in another place. Knowing the difference could save your rear.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

SHTF
TEOTWAWKI
WWROL

Better stick to that...at least the Libturds don't have a clue what any of it means!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I dream on police phonics and 10-code, so I won't be changing now. Took me forever to stop saying Alpha Bravo Charlie but I will never be able to stop Adam Boy Charles. 

My agency also uses "Code 10", "Code 11", etc. and all of that is agency only speak, no one else uses it and no one else knows what they mean. We go from Code 1 to Code 99.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> Use what you know or what more of you know and train the rest. Trying to unlearn something just complicates your training.
> 
> There is an advantage, possibly, to using the same codes as a local emergency service in that you would know what they are saying. We know they were the good guys at one time so perhaps communication might be an advantage. You could replace a random letter for the ten so alpha-3, foxtrot-3, and 10-3 would be the same code. This might slow down their translation of your communications for them but you would understand them. Having their cheat sheet would do the same thing.
> 
> Finding your frequency would tell them of your existence. The fact that you were communicating would would probably cause them to make certain assumptions.


A little off topic. Am I correct in assuming that just listening--- not communicating --- would allow you to conceal your radio presence? Radio Grey Man concept.

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> A little off topic. Am I correct in assuming that just listening--- not communicating --- would allow you to conceal your radio presence? Radio Grey Man concept. Inquiring minds want to know.


Listening would provide you with info. "Conveying info," however means you have to "transmit," hence the need for code language. The Navajo were the best in the world at that in WWII....NO "enemy" know Navajo, though they weren't the first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker

Excerpt: "The name code talkers is strongly associated with bilingual Navajo speakers specially recruited during World War II by the Marines to serve in their standard communications units in the Pacific Theater. Code talking, however, was pioneered by Cherokee and Choctaw Indians during World War I."


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

tmttactical said:


> A little off topic. Am I correct in assuming that just listening--- not communicating --- would allow you to conceal your radio presence? Radio Grey Man concept.
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.


Yes, you can listen all you want and your presence won't be revealed. Transmitting can reveal your location if you transmit long enough (or often enough from the same location) and people are trying to locate you.

Bear in mind you could exploit APRS to send short text messages, D-STAR and C4FM to send short-burst digital messages (not condoned and not necessarily legal, but in a SHTF situation all bets are off), you could use Echolink to transmit via your smart phone, tablet or computer to a repeater and not reveal your present location. You could use IRLP to transmit in one location but relay to another location. Lots of options...just have to be careful. And for heaven's sake, keep it legal!

You can also whip up your own inexpensive cross-band low-wattage repeaters and set them up intelligently between you and folks you want to talk to. GMRS is UHF and MURS is VHF...I'll leave it at that. 4W usually draws less attention than 100W.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

As previously mentioned no transmission no find. I personally don't think blending in would be worth while because what message would you want anyone to hear anyway? Using Alpha or Adam is not hiding that you mean "A" unless you actually mean Alpha + 5 = Foxtrot and you change the "+5" every day or for each hour it is different, or multiples of the day of the month and possibilities go on. But the agency you are trying to blend in with would probably recognize the false signal. 

Finding a signal isn't hard, with the right free software and a computer attached to a radio you can "see" transmissions over a wide range very easily. I would think the priority would be very short transmissions coded with arranged meaning, as an example, 5 keys of a Morse code paddle = meet at the split in the creek at dawn. 2 clicks means abort. A return of one click, two second break followed by 2 clicks means I copy abort. It should be possible to have a cheat sheet of pre designated messages.

If all fails there is a very easy code system that is unbreakable as long as the parties you are hiding from don't have the key, but it takes time to decide and you need a pencil and paper. As an example pick any book, "The Art of Blacksmithing" revised edition by Alex W. Bealer, have two copies or at least one for each group you want to talk to, has to be exactly the same, revised edition not the original. Everyone would have to know what book you use, the code sent could be (1631212). That number would be translated to "tool." How? The book has less than 999 pages, 163 is the page number, the first 12 is the lines down the page, the second 12 is the number of words from the left and you get "tool." Mark the words you use and never use them again.

That code is long but if you have to get a coded message out it would work.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

sgtusmc98 said:


> As previously mentioned no transmission no find. I personally don't think blending in would be worth while because what message would you want anyone to hear anyway? Using Alpha or Adam is not hiding that you mean "A" unless you actually mean Alpha + 5 = Foxtrot and you change the "+5" every day or for each hour it is different, or multiples of the day of the month and possibilities go on. But the agency you are trying to blend in with would probably recognize the false signal.
> 
> Finding a signal isn't hard, with the right free software and a computer attached to a radio you can "see" transmissions over a wide range very easily. I would think the priority would be very short transmissions coded with arranged meaning, as an example, 5 keys of a Morse code paddle = meet at the split in the creek at dawn. 2 clicks means abort. A return of one click, two second break followed by 2 clicks means I copy abort. It should be possible to have a cheat sheet of pre designated messages.
> 
> ...


This is really great information and will be very valuable in a group setting. The tracking was a concern because I intended to just listen and see if others are nearby using radios. The use of radios to communicate could indicate the presence of sophisticated visitors in the neighborhood. Heavy radio traffic and a lone visitor showing up at the front gate, should raise a few red flags. Your information will also be valuable if the family got separated and needed to regroup. All very good info. Thanks


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> This is really great information and will be very valuable in a group setting. The tracking was a concern because I intended to just listen and see if others are nearby using radios...


Dad taught me to sit quiet, listen and observe. Amazing what personal info folks talk about in the restaurant booth beside you!

It's the same on radio! You can acquire a lot of information by just listening.

If you do transmit then use minimal power to accomplice the task. You say what? Let me explain.

In my neck of the woods and with my setup a FRS radio transmits 1.02 miles, GMRS radio 2.98 miles and CB SSB 4 miles.

If BOL base wanted to talk to the perimeter patrol and the perimeter is a half mile away at maximum, then use the FRS radio frequencies. Only listeners with 1.02 miles could overhear your transmissions. But in the same scenario if you used the CB SSB to talk to the perimeter patrol anyone within four miles can listen in.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I just say stuff and people are confused, no need for code


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

There are at least 5 different phonetic alphabets around - military, international, police, NATO, western union; and the alphabets have evolved over the years, but the NATO/military one seems to be the one most folks recognize. 
I seem to remember one that used international cities (P was Paris, not Papa, or Paul) but it does not get much use. LISTEN before you transmit. The worst thing newbies do is chatter about nothing, and tie up frequencies, and allow the signals to be traced. Talk is not cheap in that case, but very, very expensive, so ration it, please.


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## bbqjoe (Feb 10, 2017)

Sentry18 said:


> I dream on police phonics and 10-code, so I won't be changing now. Took me forever to stop saying Alpha Bravo Charlie but I will never be able to stop Adam Boy Charles.


Do you ever say, One Adam 12?


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## bountyhunter26 (Feb 2, 2010)

Military phonetics is best. That way there is no confusion. BUT, make your own checkpoint phonetics. Anyone remember Lone Survivor? Checkpoint Miller, Budweiser etc. At my BoL with my MAG we have different names for the various checkpoints. Same with another MAG that I am associated with. But, the end game is to confuse your enemy as best you can.....


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