# Sticky  The Seed Project



## gypsysue

THE SEED PROJECT

]Last week we were contacted by one of the members of the forum, SurvivalNut. He'd bought a can of seeds that were packed for long-term storage, off of ebay, and thought it would be a neat experiment to have people in different places try to grow some of the seeds. He contacted MMM and I and asked if we'd like to head up the project.

He mailed the can of seeds to us. This is a #10 can.









The can contains the following seeds:









Here's the blurb about how the seeds were packed, over 30 years ago:









I've already contacted some of the people on the forum whom I know are gardeners. So far we have 11 people, counting myself/husband, committed to planting some of these seeds, keeping notes, and possibly taking pictures.

If there are more of you who would like to try growing some of these seeds, and you take it seriously and will be an active part of this experiment, please send me a PM. I'd like to have a list compiled and be ready to start divvying up the seed in the next week or so. The people in the south will be getting their gardens rolling soon.

The catch is that you have to give me an address to send them to. No one except myself will have that address, and I promise to delete it from my computer as soon as I mail your seeds.

Notes and/or pictures on this thread, or PM's to me, would be appreciated, since this is to be educational, as well as interesting, to other gardeners who'd like to learn more about long-term storage of seed and how it performs.

Everyone else's input and comments are welcome too!


----------



## catsraven

Sent you a PM. Sounds like a cool project.


----------



## gypsysue

Just send you a PM back, catsraven! Glad to have you join the ranks of the seed project! 

Thanks, NaeKid, for making this a 'sticky'!

To answer some of the questions people have been asking...

You don't need to send money for postage. SurvivalNut included money sufficient to cover postage. A big thank-you to SurvivalNut for thinking up and sponsering this very cool project!

You an keep anything you harvest, including seed for future planting.

The primary purpose of this project is educational. We all may learn a lot about long-term seed storage, how successful it is, and we'll learn how differences in temperature, humidity, soil structure, # of frost-free days, etc., affect the same seeds.


----------



## Salekdarling

I will like to try this out! Sending you a PM Gypsysue. =)


----------



## UncleJoe

gypsysue said:


> Notes and/or pictures on this thread, or PM's to me, would be appreciated, since this is to be educational, as well as interesting, to other gardeners who'd like to learn more about long-term storage of seed and how it performs.


Might it be easier to follow if you have each participant start a thread, posting the results as things progress throughout the season. Having it all jumbled into this one thread would mean going back and forth every step of the way. Just a thought. :flower:


----------



## gypsysue

Salek, I got your PM! Thanks for being part of the project!

UncleJoe, I had a hard time figuring out how we could do this, regarding having a category or thread. One thing I thought of is that we could make a "Social Group" and then all our threads will be together. I wanted to make sure any of the people on PS could read about this, if they wanted to. 

So maybe this thread could be one for alerting the rest of the forum to the Social Group for this project, and interested people could go there to read our threads?

I'm not real savvy at this computer/internet/forum stuff, so ideas and help are welcome!


----------



## UncleJoe

gypsysue said:


> we could make a "Social Group" and then all our threads will be together. I wanted to make sure any of the people on PS could read about this, if they wanted to.


OK. I created a group called The Seed Project. If you decide you like the idea, start the first discussion. If not, I'll delete the group and we'll figure out something else. 
Each person in the study can start their own discussion to post their results and everyone else can follow along if interested.

Oh yeah. If we go this route, I can put a link to the group in the first post


----------



## gypsysue

To the people who's addressed I already had for the seed project, I mailed your seeds today. Monday is a holiday, so no mail. Give it an extra day. As you get them, please let me know. I'm on the run right now, trying to finish things before the library closes.

Most of you know, we're in Nevada right now, playing "bug-out" in the desert for a while (see my blog in my signature line), so we have limited internet access at this time!

Can't wait until we all get gardening!


----------



## UncleJoe

Oh goody, goody, goody!!! 

I was out looking at the garden plots today ( since it was 65°) and deciding where things will be this year even though I'm still a month away from being able to work the ground. 

I'm putting a link to the group at the top of this page. As this thread continues to grow, I'll post a link in the first post of every page so folks won't have to look far to find it.


----------



## JayJay

gypsysue said:


> To the people who's addressed I already had for the seed project, I mailed your seeds today. Monday is a holiday, so no mail. Give it an extra day. As you get them, please let me know. I'm on the run right now, trying to finish things before the library closes.
> 
> Most of you know, we're in Nevada right now, playing "bug-out" in the desert for a while (see my blog in my signature line), so we have limited internet access at this time!
> 
> Can't wait until we all get gardening!


I went to get 12 or so green peppers to dice and freeze for my meatloafs...*got seeds instead*....$1.44 each for green peppers,, and red/gold were $2.68!!!!


----------



## BasecampUSA

_________________________________THE SEED PROJECT___________________________________

Very worthwhile experiment. A unique opportunity! This project I will _HAVE_ to see! I'm a seed grower with a small laboratory and a greenhouse.

And I'll report the results to my friends at Johnny's (where I once worked), as well as my buddy Elliot Coleman!

BUT - To really have any real credibility with this:

1. I assume you will be carefully listing seed viability... i.e. what percentage of seeds actually sprouted. If 10 were planted and 4 sprouted that would be 40% etc.

2. Condition and growth progress of plants _against a known control comparison._
That means taking some fresh seeds of the same variety and planting, watering, and fertilizing with the same things in seperate containers or plots, side by side in nearly the same location.
It would be interesting to see controlled pollination results, i.e. intrapollination of "old seed" plants and cross pollination with "fresh seed" plants.

3. Yield at maturity _against a known control comparison._

- then it would interest me how the seeds collected from these would perform for the next generations.

- photographs would be indispensible!

Hey, "the proof is in the pudding" isn't it? ...


----------



## UncleJoe

I can't speak for others but I don't see myself doing any scientific analysis on cross-pollination. I'm a newbie, very small-scale, part-time farmer. 

Germination rate? Absolutely!! That's my biggest concern and the thing that I want to focus my attention on. Yields will be important as will the viability of the next generation of seed.


----------



## SurvivalNut

*Survival Seed Viability*

I purchased these seeds on eBay. With shipping I paid about $20. I actually let the auction expire, knowing I should put my money in viable seed storage instead. Then I realized the potential trove of answers that may come from the project, good or bad, that would benefit us all. Fortunately, the seller had a sense of humor and relented to sell the seeds for $5 plus shipping instead of tossing them in the trash.

When I purchased the seeds, my first thought was to contact the AG Department of either the local College or University to see if they wanted to play along and do a scientific study. But my fear was the perfect controlled conditions or process they might follow would not mirror or translate into an average Joe like myself opening a stored can of seeds xx years in the future in SHTF or lesser depression scenario.

There are lots of variables like type of seed, growing regions, and picking a good season or bad growing season to open the can. Lots of other variables like hot beds, greenhouses, deer, insects, soil types, etc will skew the results all over the place. It represents all of us.

Since I am a mediocre gardener (i.e. crappy), any potential "average" results would be impossible for me to hope to produce. I would fail from the outset as my Eastern Washington growing area in high altitude and short seasoned.

I am grateful that GS and MMM enthusiastically agreed to mentor the project when I PM'd them asking them to bail me out and to spread out the seeds, post the results and possibly publish an article in the future. I knew I was over my head from the outset. They have been awesome PS Board members.

The results will give me a better idea about how to approach my seed storage strategy and the viability of longer term hardened (canned) seed sets that are an alternative enhancement to my shorter term and year to year seed stocks.

I look forward to the results this year (and hopefully next), whatever they may be.

In advance, I appreciate the efforts of our fellow community participants who have agreed to take the time to provide a base of information that will be useful to us today and all those that follow us in the future "wake up call".

Here is a note from the auction description: _"Okay, so my father thought the world was about to end, and he invested in some cool survival stuff!" _
This unknown gentleman's wise prep purchase 30+ years ago represents a book for us all to open and read, discuss and debate the results together.

Thank you all participants again for being the "go to" answer guys and sharing your talents for a worthwhile project!


----------



## SaskDame

Wow, neat experiment. I have not volunteered as my gardening is so very haphazard. I plant enough for 100 people and hope to not kill enough for 3. 

I can say that I have often had Hybrid Spinach self-seed and the stuff does not breed true to the parent generation. At least I have not had one that does.


----------



## Emerald

I just have to say that I am waiting on pins and needles for the seeds to show up and a big thanks to SurvivalNut for letting join in on the fun! I will try to document as much as possible and take pictures. And save seed for next year as long as they taste as good as what I grow out now.
It never hurts to have as much variety as possible seed wise, don't want another "potato famine" caused by inbreeding depression.


----------



## SurvivalNut

I am also picking up a 35 year old mixed case of sprouting seeds (peas, lentils and triticale). After GS amd MMM give us all a report on their bug out trip, I'll spring this on them, tho they may just want to shoot me for this one. 

I've never sprouted seeds before, so again, I am way out of my credibility league on this one. 

We might as well have fun while we prep, right?:dunno:


----------



## SaskDame

We found some mung beans in storage that were purchased in, we think 1999. We are getting maybe 50% germination (sprouting). They were misplaced so storage conditions were not great. Most of that time it was really dry here and winters were cold and dry.


----------



## nj_m715

I just started sprouting last year and find it very easy. much easier than trying to get a garden to produce. I use a caning jar and cut a piece of plastic window screen to fit inside the canning lid ring. Just rinse them once a day and dump out the water. It grows in about 3-5 days in summer and 7-10 in winter. I tried some sprouting trays because I heard they are all the rage, but the small seeds fell through and through and the root grew into the holes. I went back to jars. I'd volunteer for your experiment, but I already kill 1/2 of what I plant so I'm not a good candidate. 
Since there are that old I would be happy with 40% germination and small fruit production as long as they produce viable seed. Last year we tried some potatoes. we started with only 6 seeds. Every potatoes was about the size of a golfball, but we ended up with about 25 of them. I consider it a success. We didn't eat any, but I have plenty of seeds for this year and I have some manure and fertilizer waiting. Hopefully we can eat most of them this year. I think the size of the fruit has a lot to do with the nitro, soil and sun, but like I said I have brown thumbs so I could be wrong. Good luck with the test. Waiting to see how it goes.


----------



## Asatrur

*Eagle has landed*

GS,
Thanks for sending the seeds. They arrived today and we will start planting soon and keep you posted.
In Frith,
Devin


----------



## goshengirl

GS, got ours today. Thanks!

Looking forward to getting into the dirt.


----------



## Salekdarling

____________________________________The Seed Project_____________________________________

Got my seeds today. Thanks Sue!


----------



## Salekdarling

Forgot to mention a big THANK YOU to SurvivalNut for dreaming up this project. Very excited to get started. I am a new gardener and I definitely love challenges like this!


----------



## gypsysue

I'm glad some of you have gotten your seeds now, and thanks for letting me know. There's seed left, if anyone else wants any, or if anyone who got seed would like more (more of one kind or more varieties, either one). Problem is it'll be Thursday or Friday before we come back into town/library/WIFI! But most parts of the country still have plenty of time before it's time to plant, though here in sunny southern Nevada the stores all have their bedding plants out... *drool, drool*

I have peas, lettuce, and cantaloupe growing in containers out at our campsite. The sea gulls came down and nipped at the peas and pulled one of my cantaloupe plants out of the dirt. Now I've got foil hanging over the pots in pieces that flutter and keep them away. 

SurvivalNut, we were thrilled to have you ask us to head up the seed project! I think it's a cool idea to have random people in a variety of places with a variety of levels of gardening experience to plant the seeds. We'll learn a lot, and it's so much fun. We'd be glad to expand to sprout seeds. We make sprouts over the winter for fresh greens. Some of the seed I sprouted recently was from 1996. The alfalfa seed sprouted very well, and the salad mix bean sprouts were about half viable. 

UncleJoe, I can't believe you were that warm in Pennsylvania in FEBRUARY!!! Wow! That's about as warm as we are here. By the way...I've been working on my fiction writing in the evenings in our uhaul-camper out at the lake... 

Don't forget, my blog link is in my signature line or our bug-out as desert rats escaping the Montana winter!


----------



## backlash

I also received my seeds today.
Can't wait for the weather to warm up so I can get them growing.
Really looking forward top seeing pictures this summer.
Thanks GS


----------



## Emerald

I am still waiting but our mail certainly deserves the term Snail Mail! And the storm and the day off they got Monday probably hasn't helped things any.


----------



## Emerald

The seeds came in today's post! Whoo hoo! I will be trying a few in damp paper towel for a germination test later today. and I will let ya all know what happens!


----------



## Clarice

Got my seeds today, we are so excited. Can't wait to get them planted. Thanks to everyone that is a part of this program.


----------



## gypsysue

Oh good, I'm glad to hear that more of you got your seeds. Emerald, I can't wait to hear how the germination test goes! Clarice, you're far enough south that you'll probably be the first to actually get some in the ground! I'll be excitedly waiting for news!


----------



## UncleJoe

Mine came yesterday as well. I never checked the mailbox.


----------



## catsraven

Got the seeds today. Ill be able to plant some of them in about 2 weeks! :2thumb: I cant wait to see how they do.


----------



## UncleJoe

_________________________________The Seed Project________________________________________

We here in the north don't take kindly to all this talk about plantin' seeds already. 
:club: :club: :club:  :kiss:


----------



## Clarice

We got the seed trays ready last night and planted tomato, squash, cabbage and onions. The lettuce, raddish & beets will go directly into the garden in a few more weeks when the ground warms a bit more. We got a lot of rain and wind last night so garden area is too wet.


----------



## Emerald

Clarice if you take your beet seeds and lightly roll over them with a rolling pin they will germinate better. Each little clump looking "beet seed" is really a fruit with many tiny seeds inside and buy cracking it slightly it allows the seeds to get better moisture and sprout more readily.. But usually only one seedling will win out over any others in the little fruit so don't worry about having to thin..


----------



## Clarice

Thanks Emerald, I had not heard this before.


----------



## catsraven

UncleJoe said:


> _________________________________The Seed Project________________________________________
> 
> We here in the north don't take kindly to all this talk about plantin' seeds already.
> :club: :club: :club:  :kiss:


Come down to the south with us  :kiss:


----------



## SaskDame

And even farther north, we like the -40 by either scale, it is part of our static security system.


----------



## UncleJoe

Emerald said:


> Clarice if you take your beet seeds and lightly roll over them with a rolling pin they will germinate better. Each little clump looking "beet seed" is really a fruit with many tiny seeds inside and buy cracking it slightly it allows the seeds to get better moisture and sprout more readily..


I didn't know that either!!! Thank You. :2thumb:


----------



## Emerald

You're welcome guys! I learned it from another friend on the gardening forums.


----------



## UncleJoe

As if beet seeds aren't small enough already.


----------



## Emerald

UncleJoe said:


> As if beet seeds aren't small enough already.


Wow if you think beet seed is small you must hate carrot seeds and onion seeds.. they are about 2/3rds smaller yet!


----------



## UncleJoe

__________________________________The SEED PROJECT_____________________________________

And don't forget about broccoli. The first year I tried to save seed from broccoli I had about half of it roll or bounce away.


----------



## SaskDame

I have decided, although have not actually executed, to make small drawstring bags from old teatowels, pillowcases etc. to cover the seedheads of some plants with difficult to collect seeds. I would do this as soon as the seed is pollinated and starting to form.

Many seeds, about the time I think of collecting them, are wind disbursed.


----------



## Jason

I kind of hemmed and hawed about this because we are so new to gardening, so if it's too late to jump on board I totally understand. That said, is it too late to jump on board? If not, I'd like to try to do some good with some of the seeds. Sue and MMM, I know your time online is limited so just get back to me when you get a chance.


----------



## goshengirl

Sue, if there aren't enough seeds for Jason, we've got plenty here and would be glad to share. 

Also, would it be possible to get the planting info off the envelopes the seeds came in? I've researched the different seed varieties for planting requirements/days to maturity, etc. - but would like to know if what I found online jives with the instructions that came with each of the seeds.


----------



## UncleJoe

I could send you a few also Jason.

goshengirl, what do you have? Between us we should be able to get Jason set up. 

I have:
spinach, pea, bean, beet, carrot, onion and crookneck squash.

I'll need to keep all the corn to make a decent block for the best possible pollination.


----------



## Jason

Honestly, if I could just maybe get a few carrot and onion seeds that would be awesome. DW has most of the garden mapped out already so I'll not have room for too much. I'd appreciate it but I know I chimed in late so I don't want to take away from anyone else's plans.

Thanks, Joe and GoshenGirl!


----------



## goshengirl

I can send you carrot seeds - I've got plenty! Just PM me your address, okay?


----------



## gypsysue

I'm here today! Jason, if you still need seed, PM me too and I'll send you whatever you want. 

Did anyone NOT get seed, for whom I had an address for? I was going to PM everyone individually when I mailed it, but time is so short on our trips to town to use the internet. The only other person I haven't mailed it to yet is LegitCitizen who, hopefully, is a patient type of person!

One person messaged me that their envelope was mangled and from what they described was left in the envelope, most of their seed was lost somewhere, so I'll be remailing them more seed. Anyone else have that problem?

Emerald that was awesome information about breaking up the beet seeds! Regarding carrot seed, I have a friend who mixes carrot seed with some sand, then scatters it when she plants. I've never tried it myself. My carrots tend to self-seed.

I like the idea of the little drawstring bags, from Saskadame, to catch the seeds before they blow off of seed heads.

Well, until the end of the week, everyone take care and I'll talk to you later. As much as I love getting out of the Montana cold and enjoying the warm south for a while, the lack of internet access is driving me nuts!


----------



## Jason

Gypsysue: PM sent. I'm really ecited to become a part of this venture.


----------



## fobhomestead

*Seeds.. and Square Foot Gardening*



gypsysue said:


> THE SEED PROJECT
> 
> ]Last week we were contacted by one of the members of the forum, SurvivalNut. He'd bought a can of seeds that were packed for long-term storage, off of ebay, and thought it would be a neat experiment to have people in different places try to grow some of the seeds. He contacted MMM and I and asked if we'd like to head up the project.
> 
> Notes and/or pictures on this thread, or PM's to me, would be appreciated, since this is to be educational, as well as interesting, to other gardeners who'd like to learn more about long-term storage of seed and how it performs.
> 
> Everyone else's input and comments are welcome too!


Hello, GSue!! I have a can just like that except from Sustainable Seed Company. These things are expensive for what they have in them.  
((sidenote)) Being disabled, I am still in the process of having my garden built (look into square foot gardening for those who cant bend or move very well. I am actually doing the SQFT Gardening with raised garden beds so I can actually harvest what I grow... any gardeners here doing that type of system??)

Anyway, my "can" says on the bottom "packed for 2010"... so if you have more volunteers than the seeds I would not object to going through my can and adding to the experiment.


----------



## gypsysue

FOB, that's very cool that you have a newer can of the same type of LTS seed! It looks like we have enough seed from the older can to go around, and we're hoping to learn how well the seeds germinate and grow after 30+ years of storage! 

If you're going to be opening your can, or already have, it would be neat to compare the germination rates with your newer storage seeds, if you want to share that information with us so it can be included with our results! 

Also, if any of you who got the older seed from the project would like to contact FOB, we could have a side experiment going on.

Anything that has to do with digging around in the dirt and growing things is interesting to MMM and myself! 

FOB, the square-ft gardening works good, as does "Intensive gardening". They're closely related. We do intensive gardening and have good harvests. Raised beds are even better. We're working that direction ourselves in our expanded garden area.

Here's another call: anyone else want seed? There is seed left, and enough $$$ in the postage fund from SurvivalNut to handle a few more people...


----------



## tikiman

Question. do we know how the seeds from the first batch were stored< ( ie; shed, underground cellar, bedroom etc.) I know they all list that seeds can only be stored in a cool area but i have wondered. I have some that had been stored in a shed for several years that I found this winter. I am going to try to see if any of them will sprout even though they had been in the summer heat for several years.
this looks to be a great project!!!! Glad you guys started it.


----------



## gypsysue

tikiman, please keep us posted on your progress with your seed!

I've planted seed that people gave me that had been stored in all kinds of places for years, and some sprouted, some didn't. Some things like peas and beans did better than things like lettuce and carrots.

These seeds from the can were supposed to have been treated in some special way before being sealed in the can. So we'll see how 30+ years works or that.


----------



## gypsysue

PLANTING DIRECTIONS

It was easier to post pictures this way and just put the link here:

GypsySue in the Garden


----------



## BuggingIn

Gypsy Sue, are there any seeds still available? If so, I'd love to plant a few of them and see what grows here on the Rainy Side. Didn't see this thread until tonight.


----------



## gypsysue

I sent you a PM, BugginIn, as well as to another forum member who also PM'd me about joining the project, and I'll be mailing the seed tomorrow, along with seed to Jason, UncleHarley, and BadgeBunny.

That should pretty much wrap up the seed, then, so I'm sorry to say everyone else will have to be observers now! We'd love to have input from everyone. Questions, advice, whatever is on your mind!

Happy gardening, everyone!


----------



## UncleJoe

gypsysue said:


> Happy gardening, everyone!


Yep. It's time. By Sunday the ground should be dry enough to start working. If it is, I'll be putting in the cool weather stuff.


----------



## Emerald

I have some bad news to report so far- all four of the seeds that I got failed the germination test-they just rotted... I did not use that many in each test so for the next test I am going to soak the seeds in a bit of seaweed water(is supposed to be good for hard to sprout seeds) in my soil less mix. I will be starting them this weekend after the play is done. too much going on this weekend!

All it takes is one good tomato seed to sprout and I can propagate from them,, I can even take cuttings of the small tomato plant and make more plants from them as they do root very well. I am also going to take some of the radish and carrot and lettuce, put them out in the cold temps that we still have and see if a bit of cold wet will stratify them into growing. I will just sow them into pots and then just sit the pots out in the garden to grow naturally..
Sure my weather is in the 60's today(which is sooooo nice) but snow is forecast for next week.. Gotta love Michigan weather--you don't like it today, tomorrow will be different! lol


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

I have a great green thumb. I can't wait for the seeds to come!


----------



## gypsysue

Oh, Emerald! That is such a downer! I hope the next germination test does better! Gee. I hope at least some of this stuff sprouts and grows. 

I sent the last of the seed out toda to BugginIn, IrritatedWithUS, UncleHarley (Not to be confused with HarleyRider), Jason, and BadgeBunny. I was going to send you all PMs but I'm so short on time, I just put it here.

IrritatedWithUs, I hope your green thumb gets these seeds going! Though if Emerald is having some disappointments, being the gardener she is, that's not encouraging! 

Thanks for the updates.


----------



## Asatrur

So far from the gift GS sent us, we have planted the peas in our community garden plot and covered in straw for water retention, since we live in Northern CO and it gets hot and dry. Soil is mainly compost and manure from alpaca and cow, which was double dug 1 year ago.


----------



## BuggingIn

Thank you, GypsySue, for including me. I am looking forward to seeing what, if anything, will grow. Emerald has me worried.


----------



## gypsysue

Yeah, Emerald's results have me worried too. She knows what she's doing, and SHE'S having trouble getting them to sprout! Hopefully mn_homesteader will have luck with the peas. I don't think Emerald got peas, but I'm thinking peas, beans, and corn should have a longer shelf life than things like peas and lettuce. 

I'm grateful to all of you who have been willing to try these seeds. It's serious business to some people, and making space in their garden for (and spending time on) seed that might not even grow is not to be taken lightly! Thanks, everyone!


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

I got a small envelope today with a handwritten address and a no return address. I thought it was the seeds and almost skipped to the door. It was a Thank-You note from my dentist. Dang!


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

I'm getting ready for the project! I've been busy. 
I am making a greenhouse out of PVC pipe. 

















I need to amend and rotor till the garden area.


----------



## goshengirl

Woo hoo! Cool project!


----------



## BadgeBunny

OK sue ... I got my seeds day before yesterday. Timing is perfect as spring has definitely sprung here. I planted all the lettuce seeds yesterday. Given the high and low temps for the rest of the week I expect "lift off" in about 8 to 10 days for the lettuce.

Will plant the carrots and onions tomorrow or the next day. Gotta make some more peat pots before I can start the tomatoes. It will be a while before the squash goes in the ground around here.

This is so exciting!! :2thumb:


----------



## Lake Windsong

For those of you who haven't planted your seeds yet, to go along with the rolling pin idea for beet seeds:

Older seeds sometimes need a little extra help. Larger seeds (thinking peas, etc here) can be lightly sanded with sand paper before planting, just enough to wear away at the outer shell. Also, soaking seeds up to 24 hours in warm water before planting in moist soil helps.


I'm looking forward to the updates in this thread. :flower:


----------



## gypsysue

I'm so excited to hear from those of you lucky enough to be starting your planting! Yay! I can't wait for more updates!

Irritated, your mini-greenhouse is awesome! Cool project! I felt sad for you, thinking the seeds had arrived and it was a thank-you from the dentist! If you haven't gotten them yet, I'll tell you the seed envelope as my return address on it, and it says "seeds" in parenthesis below my address! I figured if you people trusted me with your addresses, I could trust you with mine! For the record, everyone's address is deleted now. 

Thanks for posting the pictures, too!


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

Just letting you guys know I got the seeds today! I think I will try germinating the squash and something else first. In case people can't see the names on the bags, I got:

Squash
Lettuce
Carrots
Onion
Tomato
Radish

:2thumb:









I HAVE TO CHOP UP THIS COMPOSE AND ROTOTILL IT IN THE DIRT ALONG
WITH SOME FERTILIZER AND THE LIKE PROBABLY NEXT WEEK OR SO. We're
STILL HAVING SOME WEIRD WEATHER OVER HERE.









Think the ducks will try to attack the garden? 









If things germinate, I'm going to use these to start out in for the
first few weeks


----------



## gypsysue

Exellent pictures, Irritated! Thanks! I'm enjoying 'sharing' your enthusiasm!


----------



## goshengirl

Hey Irritated, I've been thinking about your PVC pipe greenhouse. Please show us pics when you have it finished. I'm curious to see how you do it, and how it works for you. Just might have to borrow your idea!


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

goshengirl said:


> Hey Irritated, I've been thinking about your PVC pipe greenhouse. Please show us pics when you have it finished. I'm curious to see how you do it, and how it works for you. Just might have to borrow your idea!


I'm so name-illiterate. I went to Hope Depot and asked "what are those tri-shaped PVC pipe fitter dealys?" but I got 10 of them and I sawed PVC pipe and inserted one end to the 'tri-shaped PVC pipe fitter dealys' to another. They have elbow-shaped fitters too that I used for the corners. 
The weather is such crap here that I'm waiting until the weekend to do them


----------



## catsraven

Cool Irritated. I also am thinking of doing one as well. Im making some spirals and here is the first pic.










Ill show how I did it in another thread.


----------



## Asatrur

*PVC frame*

I build this frame out of PVC last Fall, which when covered with 4 mil plastic extended our greens in CO to Mid-Dec
Cold frame project - Transition Colorado


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

This is what I'm using to secure the ends and the like of the greenhouse

ANOTHER NOTE: I am on Day 2 of trying to germinate the squash seeds. :crossfinger:


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

I don't think any of my seeds are going to germinate


----------



## Clarice

We have replanted twice and as yet have no sign of life.


----------



## goshengirl

We're still about a month away from planting anything. It's a little discouraging that no one's having any luck so far, but that's what the experiment is for - to learn.

This is showing me the importance of knowing how to collect and store seeds.


----------



## Asatrur

We have only planted peas so far, but no signs of anything from the seeds.


----------



## BuggingIn

I got the seeds, but haven't planted anything yet. The weather has been nasty wet. Hoping I'll have better luck than what I'm hearing so far.

eta: I got radishes, lettuce, onion, carrots, and squash seeds to try. GypsySue, did the can say what the varieties were? I think I'll try starting the squash and onion seeds in the house today.


----------



## UncleJoe

I started onions, peas, beets and spinach 5 days ago. Nothing yet.


----------



## gypsysue

Yeah, the varieties were listed on the can, and somewhere above is a picture of it, on another page of this thread, and there's also a link to the specific information for each seed.

In addition to being discouraging that no one's seeds are germinating is the sobering fact that those who count on these "packaged for long-term storage seeds" could be risking their lives, by way of the potential for starvation. 

We save seed, but we also bought a "packed for 20-years" container of seeds a year ago and put it in the root cellar, thinking the cold, dark atmostphere would extend it's virility. Hmm...

Saving seed, at least enough for two years, from each year's crop seems like it might be the best way to proceed with our individual planning.

Separate from this seed project, I have a lot of heirloom seed and would be willing to share with anyone interested. Perhaps we should start a seed-saving exchange thread? Are there enough people who would trust sharing their addresses? Would it help to have someone central, like me, that people could send seed through, since I've already been trusted with the addresses of nearly 30 of you?

Ideas, anyone?


----------



## Asatrur

I for one am ready to start trying to make contacts over the country that are doing the prepping thing, since we will survive as a community over trying to go it alone, so I would be fine giving some folks my information for seed exchanging and other possible ideas that might arise.


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

It's been 8 days...nothing


----------



## gypsysue

Irritated...I'm disappointed along with you.

I'll make a list of what I have, of seed I've saved. Most is seed I've been saving and replanting for 3 to 5 years with good results. 

We can do exchanges, or help with postage if we're just "getting", or whatever we work out with people as we go.

When I get home next month, I have thornless raspberry plants, hundreds of them, and if anyone wants to pay postage (after I send them and you know what it cost), I'll mail you some for just the cost of postage. They produce large, delicious red berries.

I have heirloom beets, carrots, peas, and other stuff, but I'm not at home, so I don't know varieties. They've all been good producers.


----------



## *Andi

I'm disappointed along with you all ... I was looking forward to reading all about the project. (sad)

A seed-saving exchange thread ... sounds cool. 

As for addresses ... if a person didn't want to give their home address they could use a work address or a po box # of someone they know. (Just a thought )


----------



## bunkerbob

Now that has warmed a bit and the garden has dried out I will be planting the seeds directly in the soil.


----------



## backlash

*seeds are 40 years old*

OK I called the company that packaged the seeds.
They said they made up those cans from 1969 to about 1973 or 4.
They had a 10 year shelf life.
So it has been 40 years and they said the seeds are way, way past being good.
Still want to say thanks to gypsysue for the effort.
It was fun but looks like we are out of luck.


----------



## backlash

gypsysue said:


> When I get home next month, I have thornless raspberry plants, hundreds of them, and if anyone wants to pay postage (after I send them and you know what it cost), I'll mail you some for just the cost of postage. They produce large, delicious red berries.


I would gladly pay postage and handling for some raspberry plants just let me know how much you want.


----------



## UncleJoe

backlash said:


> but looks like we are out of luck.


I don't look at it that way. I think we all received a valuable education with this little experiment. Always keep fresh seeds around. Use the oldest seeds first. Just like with your canned food storage; rotate. FIFO.

On a side note; I'm a big proponent of NOT storing seed in a vacuum. A seed is a living entity in a dormant stage. It needs oxygen to remain viable. Not everyone agrees with me but I won't ever vacuum pack my seeds. 
Personally, I feel this is a big part of the failure or our seeds. They died for lack of oxygen. YMMV.


----------



## BadgeBunny

OK ... well I don't feel like such a dunce now. None of the lettuce I planted sprouted.  I haven't done the other seeds yet, but I will ... just in case.


----------



## UncleJoe

I GOT A SPROUT!!!

Took a look again this morning and found one of the pea seeds sprouted. Looks pretty delicate but it's there. So out of 88 seeds I planted, I've got one plant.


----------



## BadgeBunny

UncleJoe said:


> I GOT A SPROUT!!!
> 
> Took a look again this morning and found one of the pea seeds sprouted. Looks pretty delicate but it's there. So out of 88 seeds I planted, I've got one plant.


:2thumb: It's the little victories that are the sweetest!! :congrat::congrat:


----------



## *Andi

UncleJoe said:


> I GOT A SPROUT!!!
> 
> Took a look again this morning and found one of the pea seeds sprouted. Looks pretty delicate but it's there. So out of 88 seeds I planted, I've got one plant.


:woohoo:

nice! :2thumb:


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

Are you kidding me?!?! I've been known for my green thumb around town and I couldn't get any sprout! I am so happy and jealous at the same time!

:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


----------



## Emerald

Whoo HOOOO! All it takes is one to grow and if you save all the seed from it to propigate for next year you are set!
I am just getting ready to round two of seeding and see what happens. 
All I want is just one tomato to sprout and grow and I will be able to get enuf seed to share.


----------



## BuggingIn

Over on Homesteading Today, we are doing a seed train - it's on the 2nd lap now and there are plans for a 3rd. First person put the seeds she wanted to share in a box along with a list of names and addresses of the other people that wanted to participate, in the order in which they were to receive the box. The box basically made a big loop of the country, with each person taking out the seeds they wanted and adding more seeds in to share. Special requests were marked with the recipients' names, and the box sent with delivery confirmation/tracking so everyone could see where it was on the trip. By the time the box made the first loop, it had over doubled in size, and by the time it got to me (I didn't get in on the first loop, but joined for the second round), it took up a medium sized flat rate priority shipping box. I took over 100 varieties of seeds to try and still managed to send on a larger box than I received. There is a certain amount of trust involved, that each person would be fair and send on a nice selection of viable seeds for others, and the trust involved with having a list of a dozen or so people's home addresses, but so far it is working beautifully. GypsySue, would something like that be an option?

I planted onion seeds, nothing yet. Since onions have a really short shelf life anyway, I'm not expecting much. Those are some seriously old seeds. Congrats on the lone pea, Uncle Joe! May it be joined by a few more.


----------



## backlash

UncleJoe said:


> I don't look at it that way. I think we all received a valuable education with this little experiment. Always keep fresh seeds around. Use the oldest seeds first. Just like with your canned food storage; rotate. FIFO.
> 
> On a side note; I'm a big proponent of NOT storing seed in a vacuum. A seed is a living entity in a dormant stage. It needs oxygen to remain viable. Not everyone agrees with me but I won't ever vacuum pack my seeds.
> Personally, I feel this is a big part of the failure or our seeds. They died for lack of oxygen. YMMV.


I agree we all learned something.
I just meant we are out of luck getting the seeds to germinate.
I was also wondering about packing them in a vacuum.
Seems to me they need oxygen to live like everything else.


----------



## UncleJoe

Got another sprout! 

This time it's a beet.

The pea isn't looking so good though.


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

UncleJoe said:


> Got another sprout!
> 
> This time it's a beet.
> 
> The pea isn't looking so good though.


The Garden Gods are looking after you!!


----------



## UncleJoe

IrritatedWithUS said:


> The Garden Gods are looking after you!!


They may be looking after me but not very fondly.  It's a good thing I have fresh seed or I'd be going hungry this year.


----------



## gypsysue

backlash said:


> I would gladly pay postage and handling for some raspberry plants just let me know how much you want.


Great, backlash! I'll have literally hundreds of plants to thin out of my 3 main patches, and I'll gladly send all you want, just for whatever the postage costs.

In the past I've had success soaking the roots, wrapping them in wet newspaper or wet paper towels, putting them in a plastic bag, then a mailer, and sending them. I try to do that before they leaf out, so I'd try to send them around the last week of April/ first week of May, from where we live in NW Montana.


----------



## gypsysue

UncleJoe, congratulations on getting something to sprout! I thought it anything did, it might be the beans, peas, or corn, since they're a little different. I sprouted and grew red beans from a milk jug of "Y2K" beans someone gave me after they realized the world didn't come to an end. I know 10 years isn't the same as 35 to 40 years, but I had a very good crop. I also planted some seed from 1991 last year and had about a 1/3 germination rate.

We do need to stay on top of saving seed. Last year I packed some of my saved seed with the vaccuum sealer, put some in random plastic bags, some in a jar, and some in paper sacks. Some are stored in the house, some out in the barn. I made notes and I hope to watch this summer and see if any particular way of storing them did better than others.

Thanks for the updates, everyone!


----------



## UncleJoe

The pea is still green and holding on but now the beet looks like it might be dead; no sign of green.


----------



## UncleJoe

I sorry to have to report; the pea plant was bent over and nearly brown this morning.  RIP

I'm still going to try the beans and corn but I don't think I'll waste too much space on them.


----------



## BuggingIn

UncleJoe said:


> I sorry to have to report; the pea plant was bent over and nearly brown this morning.  RIP
> 
> I'm still going to try the beans and corn but I don't think I'll waste too much space on them.


Well, that's a bummer.  I have planted onions, radishes, and 3 of the squash seeds, but haven't seen a thing from any of them. I'm not really expecting anything, to be truthful. However, it doesn't take much room in the house to try and start seeds, so I will continue to try...


----------



## Emerald

I did plant the rest of the tomato seeds in pots and I sowed every last one of them! I do have my fingers crossed and if the snow ever stops and the weather warms up a bit I am going to plant the other seeds I ended up with.
I only need one to sprout and we are golden! The reviews of these tomatoes are quite good and are supposed to be a good canner with high set of tomatoes even in hot weather.
I might just have to put them on the wish list for next year so I can try them if I don't get one to sprout.

How is everyone else doing?


----------



## UncleJoe

Emerald said:


> How is everyone else doing?


Still sloshing around in mud.


----------



## BuggingIn

No luck with anything I've planted yet...


----------



## gypsysue

I'm back home now (Montana, after being in southern Nevada for a few months), so now it's my turn to try planting some of this seed. 

Has anyone tried the big things, like corn and beans? I had hoped that they, at least, might have lasted all these years.

Maybe there's something to the idea that depriving the seed of oxygen killed them? If so, then our only hope is to keep planting and saving seed each year. We've probably all planted seed at least a few years and had some success, even if it had a lower germination rate.

Now I have to decide what to do with the container of long-term storage garden seed we bought a year ago. They were supposed to be packed to 'keep' for 5 years.


----------



## Emerald

Day 12 on the re'sown tomato seeds and no signs of life, but I am gonna wait it out cuz one set of tomato seeds I have from a friend that was seeded a month ago finally sprouted two seeds, so I am gonna give them at least that long. I was just going to throw out the little pot with the seeds in it so I could use the room for something else and there they were! I guess they heard me!
I have been looking at the soil and stuff out in the garden and I think it might finally be dry enuf to plant out some of the other seed I have from the "vault" so I might be out there tomorrow doing that.
:crossfinger:


----------



## goshengirl

I got nothin'. 

Tried starting everything indoors, as it's been too wet to plant or even get beds ready. (But I wanted to be ready to go as soon as we're able to put stuff out.) No life from the experiment seeds, but all my other seeds are doing fine.

I'm glad to have tried the experiment, though. This isn't a bust at all. This has really taught me the importance of learning to save seeds. I know many of you already do that, but there are some of us who aren't there yet. This has been a springboard for me in learning about heirlooms and seed saving, and has influenced the rest of my planting for this summer.


----------



## Emerald

So far no sprouts yet on the tomatoes and I think it just might be dry enuf to plant some of the others== finally!
But lucky for me my other seeds and such from my collection are doing just fine. Gonna have maters and beans and lemon basil and thyme and regular basil and all the perennial herbs are now up so .. 
I am still gonna sow the other seeds and cross my fingers... All I WANT IS ONE! of anything... just one..


----------



## catsraven

I got nothing. Im really disappointed. Well live and learn. :dunno:


----------



## gypsysue

Similar reports from everyone...nothing coming up.

It's not a total loss, though. We learned something. We need to be careful about relying on things like long-term seed storage. As much as possible we need to grow at least a few of each thing every year or two, just to save the seeds, if nothing else. That way we'll keep our seeds fresh. 

Thanks, everyone, for your efforts. I know gardening is already a lot of work, and some of you gave up valuable garden space to try these seeds.


----------



## UncleJoe

gypsysue said:


> I know gardening is already a lot of work, and *some of you gave up valuable garden space to try these seeds.*


I never even got a chance to put anything outside. All the seeds I tried were started in the nice warm house. The only thing I haven't tried yet is corn. Once my regular corn is up for a couple weeks, I'll put the LTS corn in and see what happens. Just in case it germinates,  I wouldn't want it to cross-pollinate.


----------



## UncleJoe

It's been 2 weeks since I planted about 30 of the LTS corn seeds. 

Germination rate... 0%


----------



## Emerald

Everything I tried never did anything... I was kinda bummed as I wanted to try the tomato.. I may have to buy some from Baker Creek and see if it lives up to the hype. 
The tomatoes that I started from my stocks and the new one that I had to have are doing so great in the warmer weather and the pole beans have gone up to the top of the fencing and over just this week.
I just wish that one of the seeds would have sprouted..


----------



## mosquitomountainman

We owe a special thanks to SurvivalNut for allowing us to do this experiment. He purchased the seed and sent it to Susan and I to distribute to each of you. Thanks to everyone for testing the seed. The information we've gained here could very possibly save someone's life in the future. I know we've become much more cautious about relying on LTS seeds and are adding emphasis to our own seed saving efforts.

Thanks to everyone for taking part.


----------



## stayingthegame

perhaps we can keep a notice of where good seeds are sold. without considering it spam or selling. if old seeds are planted we can note what they were and who made them. i often buy last year seeds cheap and have kept them for 4 or 5 years before planting them. some did well. some did ok, and some did not do at all. but I found that it was more the type of seed than the company. herbs have been the most challenging.


----------



## goshengirl

mosquitomountainman said:


> We owe a special thanks to SurvivalNut for allowing us to do this experiment. He purchased the seed and sent it to Susan and I to distribute to each of you. Thanks to everyone for testing the seed. The information we've gained here could very possibly save someone's life in the future. I know we've become much more cautious about relying on LTS seeds and are adding emphasis to our own seed saving efforts.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for taking part.


:congrat: Agreed!

:congrat: Thanks, SurvivalNut! This project has been a big motivator for me to learn how to save and store the seeds we need.


----------



## Emerald

goshengirl said:


> :congrat: Agreed!
> 
> :congrat: Thanks, SurvivalNut! This project has been a big motivator for me to learn how to save and store the seeds we need.


I agree with you too goshengirl! Thanks SurvivalNut!
I started looking for older tomatoes to match the flavor of what I remember my family(Grandparents and Aunts and Uncles) used to grow. Then found that I could save seed from the ones I loved the flavors of and then started researching heirlooms and other things and mainly cuz I am usually cash poor and saving seeds from your own plants was a great way to save money-trading some of those seeds with others for their seed has given me a nice collection and range of different seeds that will help keep good diversity going in this world.
It was a great example of why somethings must be grown out and used and not just "stored" for emergencies.. It would have totally sucked to pull out that tub of seeds after TSHTF only to find that you have almost nothing of value in there cuz they just won't grow.(some did sprout for a member)
True value in this grow out--Knowledge.


----------



## Salekdarling

It's never too late to get in on the project. I had to stash my LTS away until next growing season due to the busy life I have at the moment. You'll get a report from me when I sow the seeds next year.

I'm going to try and pot plant my beets in September and maybe I will get something out of it come February or March. I know the results haven't been great but there's always hope!


----------



## horseman09

Last year was so incredibly cold and wet that for the first time in 28 years, we had no garden. We managed to slog through the mud on our corn patch and get about a quarter acre of sweet corn in resulting in a very poor crop.

But this year, THIS YEAR! This year is a whole different story. The weather is perfect and I bought a 5 foot King Kutter tiller for the back of my Massey. Yee haw, does it till the ground. Did our corn patch in about 30 minutes. Did the garden too. Won't be putting anything in yet except onions, but it sure feels good to have a garden on the way.

Back to the OP. My sincere apologies for not planting seeds for the project last year after I committed, but with the cold and wet, :gaah: We saved the seed and just planted some of all five varieties in flats today to observe germination, if any. We'll give you a sprout report in about 2 weeks. If germination is ok on any variety, the rest of the seeds will go in the garden when the time is right. I don't know from personal experience, but from what I've heard, lettuce and carrots are known to keep for many decades. Not optimistic about the corn, beets or squash tho. Even if nothing sprouts, it was fun.


----------



## horseman09

OK,OK. I was overly optimistic. I had hopes that at least a few of the lettuce and carrots would sprout just based on what I've read, but I was wrong. Not a single sprout.


----------



## Possumfam

I started reading this thread waaaaayyy back, but never kept up with it. I don't have the time this moment to read all of the posts, but I do have a question about seed saving. Don't know if it goes here or start another thread, or what - but we need to save corn seed. The bugs are trying to get what we want to keep for seed. Does it actually have to dry on the stalk? Should we pull the shucks back to help it dry quicker? Is it too late, did we already do something wrong? I'll check back later - gotta get back in the garden.


----------



## cqp33

I have been doing some home work on LTS of seeds, companies use different methods for storage prior to packaging and also different methods of packaging. I have found several people that have had nothing but failures from vacuum packed seeds. A lot attest this to seeds being a living organism and I tend to agree with them on this. Any living organism requires oxygen to live. I also understand that some freeze their seeds with success, freezing does not remove oxygen, limit it sure but not completely remove it. Freezing is also something that nature does to plants every year in various parts of the world, some plants require freezing to be productive the following the year too so if we are using a method that nature uses how can we go wrong with that. Now some plants are killed by frost so that method probably won't work for all seeds, it would only make since that freezing that seed would kill the organism inside the seed! 
I am a firm believer that having enough seed on hand for 2-3 seasons is the best method, the problem with that is viability. take for example corn, corn seeds don't stay viable for long and corn is killed by frost too. Other seeds stay viable for years in dark, low moisture conditions. Keeping enough seed and harvesting your own will not only ensure your future survival but will also increase your plants ability to survive and produce more in your location. Plants naturally build up immunities (just like us being vaccinated) to pests and diseases that are common in your area so the more seeds you save yourself you are helping your garden to produce more and thrive under your conditions if you keep the strongest plants to harvest seeds from.

Just my $.02 on the matter! Hope this thread isn't dead, been a while since anyone posted on it! Neat experiment though, glad you guys did this one! Kind of shoots a whole in canned garden idea doesn't it!


----------



## Stillmeadow

Sent pm would be great!


----------



## mosquitomountainman

Possumfam said:


> I started reading this thread waaaaayyy back, but never kept up with it. I don't have the time this moment to read all of the posts, but I do have a question about seed saving. Don't know if it goes here or start another thread, or what - but we need to save corn seed. The bugs are trying to get what we want to keep for seed. Does it actually have to dry on the stalk? Should we pull the shucks back to help it dry quicker? Is it too late, did we already do something wrong? I'll check back later - gotta get back in the garden.


Okay, I haven't checked this thread for years until it was revived today and I don't know if this response is still relevant but ... the reason corn is dried on the stalk is because you can't take it off the cob unless the kernels are dry. You may be able to pick the ears from the stalk once they've fully matured then let them dry but I've never tried it. If you have electricity and bugs are a problem try setting some bug lights among the corn. Early in the season it works to kill the moths that lay eggs that turn into worms as well.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

Stillmeadow said:


> Sent pm would be great!


Sorry, this was closed out years ago. There is no more seed from that batch left. It was an eye opening experience though and has brought some changes to our seed saving practices.


----------

