# If you live in the city you are not a prepper



## Jimthewagontraveler

You city dwellers are not preppers
IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever 
you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
to be a prepper.
Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
Lets hear what makes it ok.
I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
brave people who side with me on this.
Disagree with respect please.
I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


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## Sentry18

If I get what you're going for here; I would say that my very lifestyle decreases my chances. I have satellite TV, fiber optic internet, a smart phone, etc., etc. That is a solid $300-400 a month that I am NOT putting into my preps. I spend some of my free time playing video games, watching movies or sleeping when I could be training, reading about survival or working on my homes defenses. I could go on, but I think you get my drift. So my one reason is that I want to balance a fun and satisfying life with my desire for longer term safety and security.


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## Elinor0987

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
> So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
> And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
> I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
> 1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
> brave people who side with me on this.
> Disagree with respect please.
> I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


That was the funniest thing I've read all day! You should have put this in the humor section.


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## cnsper

You not only have to prepare that something MAY happen, you also have to be prepared if it does not happen. Like 27 years from now to start replacing and eating all the dehydrated food that you bought.

What I see in your post is that people that live in a city are wrong because that is not your way of prepping. Not all preppers fit into one category. Some may prep for 2-4 weeks in the case of a natural disaster while there will be others that are prepping for an alien invasion.

Just because their way of life is not what you like, does not make it wrong or you right. Now I do not live in the city but I also do not begrudge those that do. It may be that their bug out location is 200 miles from their job. You say that is not an excuse? Well then tell me where they are supposed to work if nothing were to happen?

Yet another attempt to put a bunch of square pegs into round holes.


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## MDsapper

I'm only making about 1000 a month, so after i pay my bills i only have enough money to buy a box or 2 of ammo and the rest goes into my gas tank or into my savings account that i'll use when i go to the pa gunsmithing school. so not all of us choose to decrease our chances of survival we just have to play the cards that we are dealt


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## HamiltonFelix

Being urban, not rural, may decrease your odds, but it doesn't automatically make you dead when TSHTF. It just gives you more problems. Sure, in a real crisis you'll face the gangs of urban goblins first. But eventually we rural types will see that gang of 100 inner city predators, bent on rape, pillage and murder. In both cases, having good relationships with neighbors and some plans in place is very important.


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## DJgang

I'm sure if you are a city dweller and became a prepper you would get out if you could, but some people just can not. 

People, in the city of our mindset, are doing the very best that they can : I'm sure they might have added anxiety that non city dwellers have, I actually feel very sorry for them...but I'm not going to say they are not preppers, I'm going to encourage them in any areas that I can!!!


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## Grimm

DJgang said:


> I'm sure if you are a city dweller and became a prepper you would get out if you could, but some people just can not.
> 
> People, in the city of our mindset, are doing the very best that they can : I'm sure they might have added anxiety that non city dwellers have, I actually feel very sorry for them...but I'm not going to say they are not preppers, I'm going to encourage them in any areas that I can!!!


Those that are city dwellers that CAN get out should.

After this weekend we will no longer be city dwellers BUT living in the mountains brings a whole new set of concerns and issues.


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## MetalPrepper

Also, there is "city" and there is "city"......not all are like NYC.....and even in NYC there are tunnels, hidey holes....roof tops, etc....prepping is prepping, for whatever YOU feel you are prepping for. Hurricane Sandy was in an urban area, and I grantee some extra cans of food, water and batteries would have been appreciated by those people (aka prepping)...everyone can't live on a homestead, for one thing there isn't enough land for that....so judge not, least ye be judged. I for one live "in a city"....but I am surrounded by undeveloped land, a nature park and lake.....I feel pretty good about my chances.....


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## BillS

You can't be a prepper if you make arbitrary rules about what disqualifies you from being a prepper.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Sentry 18
Ok it's good to have some balance in life.
Side note: last year my total outlay was less than$500 cash.

Elinor897
Glad you enjoyed it.
I can never replace MAGUS but maybe I can kick a few noisy cans for him while he takes a quiet spell?

Cnsper good hit lets see what all I can refute?
People who live in a (very large) city are wrong because they have chosen to place themselves (and those they love)
In HARSH competition for limited resources.

2-4 weeks: Geez I might see a store that often
Aliens:?? Are some of us not prepping for that?
( I saw it at the movie theater that's bad stuff)

200 miles to BOL:
Yes please make pretty shiny things for me to see when I
visit.
Just don't expect me to come get you when you are hungry!

Square pegs: As any person who has ever looked at a 100 year old barn and thought about it for a few will realize
SQUARE PEGS ARE WORTHLESS !
But pound them through a round hole a few times and you get a useful item.

Cnsper you may now consider yourself slightly rounder 
But you do have the best try so far thank you.
Please don't stop prepping someone will eat that food who knows it might even be you!
Consider commuting, 20 miles makes a very big difference.
By the way your lines about ignorance,friends,gunpowder and ego are AWSOME 

MDsapper :congrats on the school.
Now stop whining! If you move the right distance away from the city not only are there places to live for free but I get paid to live where I do.
Would this make it smarter for you to commute?
The thing about gun smithing is you learn to control the steel not let the steel control you!
How long has it been since you shopped for a cheaper way to live? Cheaper car insurance? Ate dry ramen?
How bad do you want it? Drive on young man drive on!!!

Hamiltonfelix:
If I understand you correctly by the time the MBZ,s
get here they will have done a bit of self pruning.
So city life is still a drawback
And yes good neighbors are priceless!


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## Lake Windsong

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> .....
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.


I choose to live in an area prone to tornado outbreaks. This means I plan for storm protection for my family, possible damage of property, and protection against looters after a storm.
I live in a forest, so in addition to house fire evacuation, we plan for longer term evacuations in case of forest fire.
I work in an industrial area of a small town, so I plan for catastrophic industrial disasters and getting home safely.
I have kids and older relatives nearby. We are trained in first aid/CPR.
I could live in a bunker in the middle of BFE, but no matter where I choose to live, prepping is a risk-management plan of action. I assess the likelihood of a problem situation and plan accordingly to minimize the consequences of that risk, whether it be a house fire or a widespread devastation.
There is no magical land of Prepper Paradise, that is why we each prep for different situations and in a myriad of ways. Whatever cranks your tractor. And whatever keeps you sane and safe. There is no reason for a prepper to choose to decrease his/her chances of survival; rather, a prepper increases his/her chances of survival by recognizing dangers and risks and being cognizant of how to minimize those dangers--regardless of home location, occupation, age, or physical limitations.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

DJgang: I hear people say they can't get out all the time.
I just haven't heard a logical reason.
That's kind of my point in starting this thread.
On the other hand city people PLEASE PREP.
I'm counting on you to thin out the problems that will head my way. (Thanks in advance since I might not have a chance to say it after you successfully defend your home 4 or 5 times.)

Grimm: Drive on! Make friends!
Order WHITE gravy on biscuits at the local farmer coffee shop on Tuesday morning.

Metalprepper: Logical people know that food grows in dirt.
Dirt is covered in city's.
Logical people also guard/protect their food.
Therefore people who live in city's are less logical to begin with.
So more problem people congregate in city's 
So living in city= bad

Judge not: The passage you are referring to reads
Judge not " lest ye be judged in that same way"
So please Judge me.( Hit me with your best shot?)
That passage does not mean "Do not judge"
If WE do not judge each other then cops/lawyers and men who wear black dresses get involved!
Nobody wants that for themselves?

Nature park etc: you are kind of proving my point here if you plan on leaving ( but only after SHTF)
So unlike those who plan to stay in the city ( my first line of defense)
You as you fight the herd of angry frightened sheep will be my second line of defense.
Once again I thank you now as your survival odds are low.

BillS Excellent good! good! Who cares what some one else thinks about whether or not you are a prepper.
SHEEP!!!

LAKEWINDSONG: That was the most eloquent,sincere and insightful thing I've ever heard you my dear are an absolute peach.
I have never enjoyed being brought to heel more in my life.
I think Naekid should post your speach forever.
Now I'm sure that someone will try but I think the best they will do will be a pale comparison to your thoughts.

My final thoughts ( unless someone can cause me to drag this on forever)
We are all preppers doing our best to plan ahead.
Never give up never stop!
But if you city folk do have to bug out realize we county people try to do right.
And we will take every load we can and survive.
Don't ever steal our dinner we have planed for those that do!


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## biobacon

Ok I'll give it a shot. So I live in a city, not a nasty dirty dank city but an Ohio city and with the exception of our 3 C's that means comfort. Well this past year we lost power due to high wind. Some lost power for 1-3 days, it was out for 5 days for us and some of the county people surrounding us had it out for 7-9 days. So because we live in the city they were able to hook the genneys up and we never lost water/plumbing. The country folks not smart enough to have a back up power source or hand crank found themselves in trouble. Don't get me wrong I believe that those of us who want to be more self sufficient should live in the country as I do want to myself. But don't confuse being self sufficient with being prepared. Being prepared means different things to different people as some have already said. Im not preparing for martial law and an EMP because I just don't think that's as Likely as tornados, flooding and an eventual and ongoing economic decline. And yes living in the city makes my chances of being a victim more likely but it also means I don't have to wait an hour and a half if my house catches fire or I have a stroke. So I prepare by having a gun and knowing how to use it, having a garden and compost bin and knowing how to use it, having an awesome medical shelf and knowing how to use it, having food and water stored up (can always use more of that LOL) and ways to make more clean drinking water and having a BOL to go to if I have no other choice. If I were preparing for the zombie apocalypse then living where I do would scare the heck out of me, but Im not so I like having indoor plumbing, (well until it gets too expensive and we just start throwing our waste in the empty houses down the street, just have to avoid the biker gangs, illegal aliens, and white people with "assault rifles" LOL)But then my city isn't like New York City, its 55,000 people but somehow spaced out enough that some people have horses in their side lots and a heck of a lot of people have gardens and my county is in the top 5 for Deer harvesting in Ohio, I just happen to live in the county seat. Just my .02 cents.


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## MDsapper

you did'nt say anything about me  i think i'm gonna cry


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## Toffee

Well, I live on about 20 acres together with some family members. BUT we are technically in a large city, only on the outskirts. We will likely not bug out.


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## Bobbb

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.


Some questions for you:

-Do you like living? 
-Do you take bathes or showers?
-Do you drive a car?

If you take bathes or showers and if you drive a car, then you're not a person who likes living for each of these activities comes with risk of death and anyone who likes living should completely eliminate all risk to their life in order to claim that they like, or love, life.

You see what happens when you adopt an all-or-nothing stance? If being a prepper means that everything in life must be pushed down the priority list and everything one does in life must be to further the goal of prepping, then the same logic applied to people who love life requires them to live in a sealed box, cut off from all risk to life, in order to maximize their chance of living accident free.

Does that work for you?


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## Jimthewagontraveler

MDsapper: top post on page 2


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## Jimthewagontraveler

All others please refer to my second post on page 2 near the 
bottom.
Hats off to LAKEWINDSONG


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## MDsapper

my biggest issue is that maryland sux, the cost of living here is so damn high that i'm barely get to have time to myself cuz i'm working so much for 9.50 an hour. but as soon as i get into the school things wil change cuz my gi bill will cover the entire cost of the school as well as my housing with some to spare so i'll be able to get my debt taken care of as well as adding to my preps. also i'm already commuting 20 min. to my job already and it drains the gas out of my truck when i'm doing that 5+ times a week. my insurance is as low as i can get it for the state of maryland. and screw ramen i'll stick with my potatoes


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## OldCootHillbilly

Where yall live got nothin ta do whether er not ya be a prepper er whatever ya call yerself. Ya still prep fer whatever concerns that individual. 

Some folk got a mortgage, family an a job that may not allow em ta just up an move ta the country. Sides, ifin everbody lived in the country, it wouldn't be the country no more.

Them cities offer some resources ya ain't gonna find in the country. Ya need ta know where they be an how ta use em. 

So in genereal, ya make the best a what ya can do an what ya got.

It ain't upta us ta decide what be right er wrong fer other folks. That be there business an I sure ain't gonna tell em that they ain't preppers just cause they live in a city. I know some folk what do that be far more prepared then most folk what live in the country.

An on another note, I ain't never considered myself a "prepper", it be my lifestyle, I was born an raised thisa way. Be how my family has lived fer generations.


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## FrankW

I am not so much into labels.

Not sure if I really consider myself a full fledged prepper, the main reason is because I think will be economic and I nee dot position myself were I can make money aka generate resources.

Rural areas certainly have tremendous fundamental advantages and an urban environment presents tremendous challenges ot nay pretty.

But when you think about the number of scenarios out there not all of them will doom a city dweller.

For example as long as I have power and municipal water I can last a very long time.

Power and water in some metro areas will be assured for a longer time than even some rural areas.

So while tis certainly true that living in the Appalachians or similar places is best its not the only choice since you still need to make money.

In the meantime we can do a whole lot of other things to increase our resilience.


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## oldvet

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Where yall live got nothin ta do whether er not ya be a prepper er whatever ya call yerself. Ya still prep fer whatever concerns that individual.
> 
> Some folk got a mortgage, family an a job that may not allow em ta just up an move ta the country. Sides, ifin everbody lived in the country, it wouldn't be the country no more.
> 
> Them cities offer some resources ya ain't gonna find in the country. Ya need ta know where they be an how ta use em.
> 
> So in genereal, ya make the best a what ya can do an what ya got.
> 
> It ain't upta us ta decide what be right er wrong fer other folks. That be there business an I sure ain't gonna tell em that they ain't preppers just cause they live in a city. I know some folk what do that be far more prepared then most folk what live in the country.
> 
> An on another note, I ain't never considered myself a "prepper", it be my lifestyle, I was born an raised thisa way. Be how my family has lived fer generations.


 Coot from one old country boy to another...Danged if you didn't nail it. :congrat:

A prepper is a prepper either by choice and they learn as they go or they were brought up in that way of life, and no matter if they are rural or urban they are still preppers.

No two preppers are the same nor do they have the exact same fears, goals, abilities, or funds and every prepper has his or her own set of problems to overcome.

There is not now nor will there ever be an exact definition of a prepper or an exact list of skills and supplies that a person would need to be able to cope with any SHTF situation.


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## Wellrounded

Lake Windsong has it right. You can prep any where, you should prep anywhere. I had someone ask me this summer why on earth I'd choose to live in such a high fire danger area. Well I accept the risk and prepare for it. I don't want to live anywhere else, I love it here. I'm sure there are plenty of city dwellers that feel the same way.


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## dixiemama

What is your definition of 'city'? Metro areas (NYC, Chicago, Miami) midsize (most state capitals), small (county seats) or county incorporated (no or little police presence, volunteer fire depts, long stretches with no houses)? Cuz I grew up in the county seat (6,500) and live in county incorporated town (no cops except county sheriff deputies, post office smaller than my home, gas station, mom-pop grocery, no stop light, 2 stop signs). Technically, we are still a city (post office takes care of that), and for some of us, self sustaining (no solar or wind powered homes, some generators, but we grow our own veggies/fruits/some livestock) so are we preppers? I have noticed that its getting harder to find canners/jars/lids locally (10 mile radius), the Amish store up the 'big road' is staying busier with ppl buying in bulk, camping gear is seeing an upsurge at the area Walmarts, and when a storm hits (snow/thunder) not as many ppl are panicking. 

My mother still lives in the county seat (now 9,000 with school in session), downtown actually, in sight distance of the elementary school my sister and I attended, in walking distance to the courthouse, and she preps for her and her dog. My sister and grandfather live on opposite sides of downtown in outskirts and they prep for themselves. All 3 buy in bulk, freeze/can, my grandpa gardens and shares with anyone who will take the extra after we've all picked thru it, and we have a plan in place if it isn't possible for them to stay in town SHTF. They can each hold out for 3 months on what they have. 

How are we not preppers? We know what natural disasters stroke our area (flood, snow/ice/ thunder storms, earthquakes (2 small ones but still, if small one hits, big one can too), and a tornado and we PREPARE for them.


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## PipLogan

I lived in California for 14 years. Started a career, met my wife and started a family . We discovered that this was not a place for us to raise our family. We scouted around , looked for what we felt was best for our family and made the move out of state. We now live in a Midwest state far from any major city . I encourage anyone who feels like city life is not for them to do some research and make the move. Heck I was even able to stay in the same line of work! I also know I was prepared while living in ca. City dweller can do it it's just a lot more difficult IMHO.


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## UKzilla

I live in a city and I 100% agree with you. You are probably 10X better off being in the country, but we do what we can. My theory is that there will be "underground cities" in subway tunnels etc. when SHTF, which is where the preppers will live.


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## DJgang

Everyone just keep doing the best you can do.


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## RevWC

If you live in a big city your are f*cked when SHTF. If you live within 100 miles of a big city then you have to think about the Zombies coming your way! Take heed of the apocalypse..


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## zracer7

I'll take a swing only because I have lived in both scenarios. Age newborn-24 I lived on a farm in California. We raised pigs, chickens, goats and had a garden. Moved closer to the bay area when I was 25 and then moved here to the outer DFW area in Texas 2 1/2 years ago. After I have really sat down and thought about it I have come to this conclusion. I am way safer here in a Texas city then in a rural area in CA so it depends on the location in which your "country" oasis is. I am confident that had I stayed in CA and a real SHTF type situation happened I would have been screwed. There's just too many gangs in CA. Regular people in CA are greedy as well. Mobs would swarm into tge rural areas and destroy everything in their path. Not to say Texans arent greedy and there are no gangs here but its just a better atmosphere here. Plus the move allowed me to get a higher paying job to pay for my preps. Granted my preps have to include a tornado or severe weather eliment now. So, just remember that one city isn't the same as another. And not all rural areas are safe and can have risks as well.


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## ras1219como

DJgang said:


> Everyone just keep doing the best you can do.


Yes DJ I agree! As long as people keep preparing and doing what they can when they can it doesn't matter what their location is. Prepping is largely about mindset!


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## alwaysready

What were people like us before the term Prepper came into vouge? If memory serves me in the 80's the term was survivalist in the 70's it was homesteader. When comapred side by side none of these terms are an exact approximation I do believe that the mind set is the same. As society evolves or devolves (Take your pick) so do the people and the use of terms that describle them. Back to 2013 prepping is not a place its a mind set as someone has already said. Living in the counrty does not guarantee survival (But it does increase the odds) I hope the purpose of your post is to convince people that maybe they should reaccess their living situation. Finally I have a question for you. Did you say that you are actually paid to live where you are? If so what happens if your services are no longer needed? Someone could make the statement that you are not a prepper unless you own your land. Does that make it true no its just an opinion (And we know about those:teehee Am I a prepper? Well one lable is just as good as another. I am the way I am because of those that came before me. I spent my childhood summers on my granparents farm in Arkansas. My Grandma would shop once or twice a year she had a pantry full of dry good and things she canned. Milk came from the cows that were milked by hand, butter and cheese was made in the kitchen. Bacon and eggs? you guessed it our chickens and pigs. Smokehouse, Springhouse and Rootceller all there. As a kid I found it amazing that you could do for yourself what others couldn't. Thats been with me for along time and I'd be doing what I'm doing even if there was no term "Prepper" I almost forgot if a deer was foolish enough to come into the pea patch we had vinison also caught my first fish in the creek that runs through the property. As Popeye would say I yam what I yam.


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## alwaysready

Lake Windsong said:


> I choose to live in an area prone to tornado outbreaks. This means I plan for storm protection for my family, possible damage of property, and protection against looters after a storm.
> I live in a forest, so in addition to house fire evacuation, we plan for longer term evacuations in case of forest fire.
> I work in an industrial area of a small town, so I plan for catastrophic industrial disasters and getting home safely.
> I have kids and older relatives nearby. We are trained in first aid/CPR.
> I could live in a bunker in the middle of BFE, but no matter where I choose to live, prepping is a risk-management plan of action. I assess the likelihood of a problem situation and plan accordingly to minimize the consequences of that risk, whether it be a house fire or a widespread devastation.
> There is no magical land of Prepper Paradise, that is why we each prep for different situations and in a myriad of ways. Whatever cranks your tractor. And whatever keeps you sane and safe. There is no reason for a prepper to choose to decrease his/her chances of survival; rather, a prepper increases his/her chances of survival by recognizing dangers and risks and being cognizant of how to minimize those dangers--regardless of home location, occupation, age, or physical limitations.


Well said WM haven't heard BFE in over two decades!:2thumb:


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## oldvet

alwaysready, you came so close to describing my Summers on my PaPa's farm (my Grandparents were called PaPa and MaMa by all of us Grandkids) in East Texas that it's scary. They didn't even have indoor plumbing until I was about twelve years old. They had 160 acres of which about 60 acres was being farmed. PaPa used a Mule to do the plowing up until he was physically unable to do it anymore (about 1955 or so) and then kept a small "truck garden" for their veggies. They had a "root cellar" next to the chicken coop and a smoke house about twenty feet from the root cellar. All of this was (the homestead, truck garden, well, outhouse, smoke house, and chicken coop) sitting on about an acre. The barn, corn crib, pig pen, and corral was on about three acres and about twenty acres was crossed fenced for the livestock. The rest of the property was once plowed fields, piney woods with some natural gulleys and a few small springs with really good "sweet water".

The homestead was originally a three bed room house with a living room and kitchen. When my Mom and Dad finally got the "electric" water well and water heater put in and the house plumbed, one bedroom was turned into a bath and the kitchen finally had hot and cold running water, and that was a real relief because it was one of my chores to bring in water from the well when needed. I think I was about eight years old when I was finally able to bring up a full bucket of well water and that was one proud day for me. 

The old homestead was about eight hundred square feet (if that much) and heated with the living room fireplace. The rugs were Bobcat and Deer skins that PaPa, Daddy and I and my Cousins had shot over the years and in the winter time you did your best to try and step from one rug to the next without touching that cold piney wood floor.

You mentioned that your Grandmother only went to the store a few times a year and that sure brought back memories. I don't remember my Grandmother going into town more than two or three times in the Summers I spent there. Back then (in the 50's and 60's) they had "peddlers" that would make the rounds of all of the back country homes, farms, and ranches and they would sell the needed items like salt, flour, sugar, other condiments, canning jars, pots, pans skillets, brooms, mops, and a host of other things that their customers needed and couldn't or woundn't make themselves. 

I betcha you have had more than one glass of milk that you either scraped the cream off of or mixed it in for a richer tasting glass of milk, and I also betcha that you were the one that milked that cow to get that bucket of milk.

Yep PaPa kept Bee's and had his own honey, had grape vines, pear trees, and peach trees, plus we picked wild berries, and MaMa (to this ole boy) made the best jams and preserves in the world. 

I know I got off the subject and got long winded, and I could have kept on going, but I figure you get the picture since you lived it to. You really did bring back some great and loving memories of a much simpler time and also a time when we in this country truly had and enjoyed (and took for granted) the very Freedoms and Liberties that we are loosing at a fast rate in todays world.

As Archie and Edith used to sing "those were the days".


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## PreparedRifleman73

I live in a rural city, if that makes sense. A city of about 2,000 in a county of 11,000. It seems to be a good option for a growing family. Living in town, expenses are cheaper like heating. Once I save enough cash to make a switch, we will.

Anybody can prepare regardless of their chances. The drive to live is strong.


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## alwaysready

Thanks Oldvet your post deffently returned the favor. Everything tasted better on the farm the rich milk was great however the two things that stand out the most was the chicken and tomatos. The property was 200 acre I now own part of it. The rest is still owned by family the creek was damed off and there is now a 3 acre lake stocked with bass and bluegills. If SHTF slowly it will be my BOL if it happens fast I make due with my 1/2 acre I live on. It is nice to know that someone else has the same enjoyable memories that I have. There is no better taste on a hot day than a cool drink of sweet well water by the time I was old enough to carry a bucket from the well they had indoor plumbing. But I did figure how to split wood before they got a water heater.


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## oldvet

yep MaMa's fried chicken with sliced vine ripe tomatoes, mixed greens, lumpy mashed potatoes, brown gravy, green onions and cornbread, now that was a meal. I betcha you walked down the tomatoe rows with a salt shaker in your hand just like I did.

Now my favorite meal on the farm was breakfast. Home cured salt pork, Canadian bacon, yard eggs fried in that bacon grease, huge home made bisquits with real home churned butter, white pan gravy and home made jams and preserves with a big ole glass of fresh sweet milk with that cream stirred in. 

I do miss those times and the innocent fun us kids had back then. No cell phones, computers, and no video games. They didn't have a TV but we did buy them a radio and we all listened to music and programs each evening after supper until bed time which was shortly after dark.

Dang there I go again, oh well I don't figure I harmed anyone by reliving and sharing some of my favorite childhood memories.

I just wish at times that I could afford to pull up stakes return to the old farm (or one like it) and go back to that simpler way of life and yes even with all of the hard work that was needed to sustain that simpler way of life.


----------



## OldCootHillbilly

Granpa would smear some lard on top a the cook stove, slap a couple a fresh steaks on there, fry some taters in a cast iron pan, brown some homemade bread on the stove stop an that was dinner. Beast meal ever after a day a choppin wood.

The home place in Missouri was a four room log cabin with a dirt floor. Had a handpump in the kitchen, outhouse an the very last few years they had electricity. Root cellar out back an a huge pond by a dense grove a walnut trees.

Last time I was down thata way, them new owners had added onta the cabin, floors, vinyl sidin an cut them woods nearly out. They was talkin bout takin out the root cellar. Ain't never been back since. Ain't got the heart ta see what they done ta it now.

So ya see, just cause ya live in the country don't mean yer a prepper. This simply shows how city folk move ta the country an screw it all up!


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## Tirediron

The wagon traveler got people talking and discussing , which I think was the purpose of this thread :congrat:


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## Gians

When I started in the late 70's the word prepper didn't exist. I love California, third generation, original family moved down from Portland. I can grow anything in the valley. Plenty of produce gets shipped to other states or countries from here. We have less than 1/2 acre but have put it to good use. I think the cities are only Fked in a major SHTF situation, in many respects if it's not major then they will be better off. Big storm hits, power is off all over the place, guess who gets it back on quicker. The last place I'd go in an emergency would be the country(especially after reading how friendly some are). I think Europe, Canada, Japan and many other countries would send us help in a major emergency...and I don't think city dwellers will turn into zombies :factor10:


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Hello 
I saw a question from Alwaysready.
I am paid electric/water hunting & fishing rights on 
700 acres. 10 acre lake 2 springs.
1 elec and 1 hand well.
If my services are not needed here I move to one of the next 7 properties that have asked me to move there.
If that fails I move to property I own
And yes my purpose was to make people think.
Thank you for your post.
Lets all just take a few min every month to 
step outside our own skin and mentally attack our own 
Deeply entrenched beliefs.
I worked one job where somebody tried to rob us ever year or 
2 and it always cracked me up how the bad guys always tried 
to break in the nice big double glass doors ( bullet proof)
The huge floor length window (regular glass) never once got broken.
A man wearing moccasins could have kicked out that window
and driven a mini truck in.
Truth is every time someone did break in and steal we were
Happy for days.
We got newer better stuff for free.( real good insurance)
The owner told me many times that if someone backed up a 
truck and stole every thing we would dance and eat lobster for 
a month until all new equipment showed up.
(I was just to young and dumb to take a hint!)


----------



## Meerkat

I was raised in the city 'Atlanta' and the country' Stone Mountain'both in Georgia. We had an outhouse and a well in the country. We had all the luxuaries in the city.

I love the city, liked the hustle and bustle of it and the threatres, downtown was great, we had candy stores back then,you could see them pulling candy and smell the rich fudge a block away. Drug stores had soda fountains where you could get a lime or cherry coke,or a rootbeer float.
Another thing you get from the soda fountain was a sickening thing called a does of castor oil! That stuff would sit on top of that cherry coke ice and gag you just looking at it. Everything was about the 'good cleaning out' back then,cure all. 

But in the country we had animals and could run through the woods, swim in the lake and bathe in the creek or spillway.

Best of two worlds. Atlanta now is overun with crime and non assimulatign foreigners, not even reconizable anymore, bars on windows, hoodlums runnign the streets. I use to take a bus home at midnight after watching a movie,I'd probably be killed there today. The whole city is run by thugs,imo.


----------



## Meerkat

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Hello
> I saw a question from Alwaysready.
> I am paid electric/water hunting & fishing rights on
> 700 acres. 10 acre lake 2 springs.
> 1 elec and 1 hand well.
> If my services are not needed here I move to one of the next 7 properties that have asked me to move there.
> If that fails I move to property I own
> And yes my purpose was to make people think.
> Thank you for your post.
> Lets all just take a few min every month to
> step outside our own skin and mentally attack our own
> Deeply entrenched beliefs.
> I worked one job where somebody tried to rob us ever year or
> 2 and it always cracked me up how the bad guys always tried
> to break in the nice big double glass doors ( bullet proof)
> The huge floor length window (regular glass) never once got broken.
> A man wearing moccasins could have kicked out that window
> and driven a mini truck in.
> Truth is every time someone did break in and steal we were
> Happy for days.
> We got newer better stuff for free.( real good insurance)
> The owner told me many times that if someone backed up a
> truck and stole every thing we would dance and eat lobster for
> a month until all new equipment showed up.
> (I was just to young and dumb to take a hint!)


I don't think I could have enjoyed that lobster. Guess you were kidding.


----------



## fondini

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
> So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
> And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
> I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
> 1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
> brave people who side with me on this.
> Disagree with respect please.
> I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


The way I see it is prepping is different for everyone. I feel good with 6 months food, constantly using and rotating food thru.
I have several stashes of items and I am good at that. BUT... Prepping means that I am constantly trying to learn, practice and perfect my skills at surviving.
I try to learn and catalog new "old" skills to do just about everything. I find great wisdom from many who post on here and other forums, knowing how to use what's available to me to protect and provide is much,much more important to me than a years worth of freeze dried food.
So please keep the pearls of wisdom coming, whether you reside in the country or in the city.


----------



## Jimthewagontraveler

Meerkat said:


> I don't think I could have enjoyed that lobster. Guess you were kidding.


No he was very serious.
It was a chain rental store and had the FULL coverage insurance rate established years earlier.
It was a percentage of each rental and no chance of a rate increase!
I wish I had understood what the old man meant.
I would have still had equipment hidden!
Back hoe 
Trencher
8 chainsaws
ETC ETC ETC.
AWWW CRAP!!'
Now I feel guilty for even thinking about it!
(So that's why I'm so dirt poor?!?!)


----------



## HoppeEL4

MD, sit tight where you are for now and take your classes, this obviously is what you need to do for the time being. When your life is better situated, you will then have the opportunity to move forward and out of the city should that be what you want to do.

On my own personal note. We are rural, although it is a fairly busy rural spot. Lots of nurseries around, busy road that connects to a highway in and out of the town we are part of. We are now within that towns limits, the landlord we are leasing/renting from had been able to get it re-zoned, she wants to develop the land behind us (and probably the spot this little old house is on right now too  ....). However it is far better than where we came from. For us it had to happen in steps. Twenty years ago, it was just me and my young daughter in a not so nice burb/inner city like neighborhood. My husband and I met and we got married, then it was the 3 of us there, and a baby on the way. When we left there were five of us and it had turned into a smaller version of south Chicago.

Things were not good for us, we struggled and wound up in worse spot, just bad...we left and went north to Washington state for hopes of better times, came back and wound up in the outskirts of a Portland suburb, but it was being overrun by gangs, right in the complex our duplex was in, and eventually a drug dealer too!! So we found this place, it is a vast improvement, we don't own it, and that's what I think our actual downfall is. Not owning. We're just not likely going to be in that position too soon unless a miracle happens. However, this is a good spot. 

So....sorry to finish, I think my thoughts lead to; you are where you are, you have to make due where you are at, and do all you can with what your resources allow you. Not all of us are well off super preppers, we would love to be, but it's not so for everyone. The best the rest can do is to know their strengths and weaknesses, work on knowing how to do a lot to make survival more likely and be fully aware at all times.

I spend part of my time trying to make people more aware of the possible hard times we all could be seeing (my concerns are for financial collapse). I know with any emergency there can be armed trouble, and yet I have never touched a gun in my life, an know we need one here. So there I am. In the country but probably about half as prepared as some city or suburban people.


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## CoffeeTastic

I really don't care if I'm called a prepper or not, actually, I don't want anyone to know about it except on forums. I live in a big city, but if worst comes to worst I have three "BOL"s to go to. One of them is on an island, only accessible by boat. So, the best of both worlds for now.


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## 101airborne

Jim.. Okay let me ask you this? In your original post you said CITY dwellers then changed it to BIG city dwellers. Which one is it? I live in the "suburbs" of a city, not a big city like N.Y. or detroit, chicago whatever buy a city no the less. Currently on site I have a small garden but big enough to provide pretty well for wife and I. I have enough stored foods now for right at a year without garden,fruit trees, berry bushes and such. I have enough water stored between pool, and other sources for around 4-5 months. I also have a good well for water, I have enough other supplies like medical supplies ( I am a herbalist for medicinal herbs also) blankets, cooking gear, shelter between camper and tents to take care of about 30 people if I choose to do so. I have made a small start on buying PM's and will continue to do so as llong as prices allow. I have enough weapons and ammo to last quite a while, plus crossbow and stick bows and arrows to do quite well with them and can easliy make as many arrows as I need. I am currently building a 1975 4X4 full sze van as a BOV and have access to now a dozen horses and all the gear including pack saddles if I need them. I have 2 BOL's within an hour of my location easily accessable when needed and have about 3-4 months of stores at each location. Now not to brag here but I have 18 years military service and have attended every survival, S.E.R.E school that the army had available at the time I was in. I practice my skills and train with other members of my group on a monthly basis.

Now like sentry I have cable T.V. with about 500 channels, Internet, video games, some 500 DVD's, around 400 CD's, Wife and I go to the movies (in the CITY) a couple times a month, we go out a couple times a week to eat or whatever. we are comfortable in our home, we go to work in the CITY everyday. We spend time with friends, we laugh,and have fun. We don'tspend every night sleepless worrying about if the zombies are going to attack! On average we take 2 vacations a year, average 10-12 run away week ends a year just for the heck of it. We have a comfortable joint income, a modest savings account, a couple of credit cards, and spend about $500-$600 a month on enjoying our lives,

So my question to you is... are WE preppers?


----------



## fondini

101airborne said:


> Jim.. Okay let me ask you this? In your original post you said CITY dwellers then changed it to BIG city dwellers. Which one is it? I live in the "suburbs" of a city, not a big city like N.Y. or detroit, chicago whatever buy a city no the less. Currently on site I have a small garden but big enough to provide pretty well for wife and I. I have enough stored foods now for right at a year without garden,fruit trees, berry bushes and such. I have enough water stored between pool, and other sources for around 4-5 months. I also have a good well for water, I have enough other supplies like medical supplies ( I am a herbalist for medicinal herbs also) blankets, cooking gear, shelter between camper and tents to take care of about 30 people if I choose to do so. I have made a small start on buying PM's and will continue to do so as llong as prices allow. I have enough weapons and ammo to last quite a while, plus crossbow and stick bows and arrows to do quite well with them and can easliy make as many arrows as I need. I am currently building a 1975 4X4 full sze van as a BOV and have access to now a dozen horses and all the gear including pack saddles if I need them. I have 2 BOL's within an hour of my location easily accessable when needed and have about 3-4 months of stores at each location. Now not to brag here but I have 18 years military service and have attended every survival, S.E.R.E school that the army had available at the time I was in. I practice my skills and train with other members of my group on a monthly basis.
> 
> Now like sentry I have cable T.V. with about 500 channels, Internet, video games, some 500 DVD's, around 400 CD's, Wife and I go to the movies (in the CITY) a couple times a month, we go out a couple times a week to eat or whatever. we are comfortable in our home, we go to work in the CITY everyday. We spend time with friends, we laugh,and have fun. We don'tspend every night sleepless worrying about if the zombies are going to attack! On average we take 2 vacations a year, average 10-12 run away week ends a year just for the heck of it. We have a comfortable joint income, a modest savings account, a couple of credit cards, and spend about $500-$600 a month on enjoying our lives,
> 
> So my question to you is... are WE preppers?


Yep! And I wish I was your neighbor! I stand by the fact survival skills is the most important prep there is, I'm thinking you got that covered.


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## k0xxx

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers...


Bull [email protected] Someone living in the city may not be your vision of a prepper, but that has no relevance to anyone but you. We all prep for different reasons and different scenarios, that we feel are a threat. There is no one version of SHTF. For some, it may be the zombie alpaca lips, others it may be a pandemic, still others it's a loss of job and income.

I'm glad that you feel that you can survive your version of SHTF. I feel it will be something totally different and have planned for that. Others, well... the possibilities are endless. Anyone of us can imagine a future outcome where only their version of SHTF is what happens, and anyone of us may be correct. As always, YMMV.

Zombie Alpaca Lips


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## nopolitics12

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
> So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
> And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
> I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
> 1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
> brave people who side with me on this.
> Disagree with respect please.
> I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


I'm currently an urban prepper. I'm also less than 10 miles from open land. And seeing as how I live in a "poor ghetto" type area due to financial reasons that are quickly dissipating, I know that the local die off will be rather fast due to a major lack of common sense and human decency in my neighbors. I can pick off the scragglers with my 30-06 from a second story window. So once most of the idiots around me are dead or have moved to the more well to do areas to "cash in" I can quietly make my way to my BOL all while picking up some odds and ends along the way.

The above is a WCS should I not be able to bugout in time.


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## readytogo

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
> So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
> And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
> I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
> 1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
> brave people who side with me on this.
> Disagree with respect please.
> I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


Dear sir, what disaster may you change your mind to become a pepper, has your house ever been flooded, blown away by a hurricane, torn apart by a tornado,you are surly and expert in prepping.


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## biobacon

Well I just had to post this. You see Even Old Hank says its America not just the country boys anymore LOL





See he says we also come from the big city skyline.


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## OldCootHillbilly

One a my favorites, I like quite a few a Hank Jr's songs.


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## 101airborne

fondini said:


> Yep! And I wish I was your neighbor! I stand by the fact survival skills is the most important prep there is, I'm thinking you got that covered.


 thanks fondini.... It's taken me 40+years to get to where I am now and if i'm real lucky in another 40 I might get to the point I want to be.


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## HoppeEL4

nopolitics12, We have lived in some ghetto areas out of necessity. It can be rough at times and also in some situations, advantageous. I know people cannot understand how, but until you have done it, you don't know.

I too believe those people in the ghetto type neighborhoods are going to leave looking for better places with better options, this will give you time to hunker down and have the place for yourself and either set yourself up to ride it out, or to get out with your goods unseen. 

We are renters, we don't have much of a choice. Right now we are in a farm setting, the owner is holding this land as development (seems it is going to be a while before it gets developed for buildable lots). However in the past we have rented from some slummy type landlords. The last one was from Iraq, so he did not have the hang ups about the places and what we did to the yard (tore out grass for garden beds, had chickens). This is where the advantages begin if you have to be in town. Where we are right now does not matter we're in the country with room to spare, tearing out some for gardening is half expected and we have a barn for chickens...but in town this can be tough, many American or picky landlords will have fits over ANY changes. Sometimes having the hands off kind can be good.

I think people can do well in most settings and it is mainly about knowing your own environment, area, region and the kind of people you live around. Being in a slummy kind of place means being extra careful about what you have in the way of resources. Looking a little poor is best.


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## Grimm

readytogo said:


> Dear sir, what disaster may you change your mind to become a pepper, has your house ever been flooded, blown away by a hurricane, torn apart by a tornado,you are surly and expert in prepping.


Um, Jim lives in the middle of nowhere in a wagon with his horse and his dog. I don't think he has much more to worry about like a house flooding...!


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## hpb13

not to be asmartazz but these city dwellers are the first to reappropriate goods. i personally live in the woods..just my .02


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## machinist

1) I think city dwellers may have some advantages in very SHORT disasters, or very localized problems, because of the variety of resources in cities. Those resources, however, depend on constant resupply, which is bad for the longer term. And, localized problems affect a lot more people per square mile in a city, such as a recent train wreck/chemical spill in Louisville, KY.

1) For the long term, rural areas have the better resources to maintain life at a lower but tolerable level. In the long term, food needs to be grown and that means enough arable land to support whatever population, which is obviously lacking in cities of any size.

3) In the very long term, to maintain operation of our society (including rural areas) we need production and transport of manufactured goods. That requires processing facilities and factories, which in turn require transport, utilities, buildings, and skilled people in some quantity, typically found in cities. 

Without sustained cities, our civilization reverts to 18th century living in a hurry, and cannot sustain present population levels. Many rural areas, however, can support an 18th century lifestyle for a very long time, given the proper preparations for needed skills, tools, and supplies for the interim conversion period. 

So, it depends on how bad things get, how fast, and how long it lasts. Like Jim, I cannot in good conscience defend living in a city with the prospect of a LONG term disaster looming. History is on Jim's side of this issue.

FWIW, we rented a house in a city 40 years ago after we sold one home and before we bought another. It was the most boring and restrictive 6 months of my entire life. I did not enjoy listening to adults argue next door, nor hearing the neighbor's teenager discuss his sex life, and he was in his own driveway--6 feet from our window. YMMV.

I find it much easier to deal with many possible problems in a rural setting. Most of what happens we don't even know about unless we hear it on the news. Like any sensible gambler, I am betting on the odds with regard to disasters and find the odds in our favor out here in the sticks.


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## HoppeEL4

I can agree, long term survival requires some space and more natural resources (once the man made resources are used up, people will have to revert to natural ones). I can sympathize why people have to be in the city, jobs, lack of reliable transportation, lack of income that affords living out of the way, going to school. 

I do think it is better if you can, but know it is possible to do ok for a while, and being sure you have a contingency plan to get out when it looks like it is going to become a prison or death trap.


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## LongRider

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever


Anyone who reads my posts knows I am a huge proponent of being self sustaining. But that was not always the case. Age and experience have altered my perceptions. As I have said from 1973 to 2003 I was on the BUG OUT bus. I had scouted locations and laid down caches en route. In fact along several different routes over the decades. Over time I developed and honed what I determined to be survival skills, took a host of courses plant identification, harvesting, uses, storage and preparation. I hunted, hiked, camped and fished regularly. Including survival camping, fairly frequently. Took courses in carpentry, small engine repair, cooking, sewing knitting, first aid (EMT certified) combat medic trained and basic ER skills, welding, basic metal fabrication, automotive repair, electrical, plumbing, animal husbandry, gardening, sailing, navigation, canning, trapping, tanning, fire arms & tactical training, martial arts, to name a few. For over thirty years it seems I have been a perpetual student. I believe that I could have, would have survived bugging out, because I am a survivor. But that it would be meager, harsh and brutal existence at least based upon my experience when I tried it. If one thing went wrong, death would be eminent post SHTF there would be no one to call to come get me. So not a way of life I would want to sustain long at my age. But to say I was not a prepper or could not have survived would have been inaccurate. It is just that my values and priorities have changed. Survival is not enough. I want more than to just to live one day to the next. I have come to realize that only by being self sustaining now can I hope to continue to have the standard of living and quality of life that I have now regardless of what happens in the world around us.

Maybe even more important. Having accomplished what I had set out to do in my professional life. It became apparent to me that a life of constant compulsive conspicuous consumption, of more never being enough was not a satisfying or gratifying way for me to live. I have found that living in harmony with my environment, providing for my own needs is more gratifying and fulfilling than acquiring more money to spend on more crap that I do not need and even want. Survival has become a by product of my way of life, not the reason for it. As sentry said it is about living a good life now. It is the way I live whether or not SHTF. But it is not a way of life for everyone. To say those that do not choose to live as I do are not preppers or survivalists would be arrogant and inaccurate at best. Though, IMHO those who are not self sustaining will undoubtedly have a hard time and a very meager existence if things ever do go south, but that does not mean they will not survive.



Sentry18 said:


> If I get what you're going for here; I would say that my very lifestyle decreases my chances.


From what I gather from you other posts that is not the whole picture. If I get your point here, enjoying our lives now is what it is all about or why bother. Being self sustaining IMHO is about living life to the fullest enjoying what each day has to offer and assuring that we will be able to continue to do so no matter what happens.



cnsper said:


> You not only have to prepare that something MAY happen, you also have to be prepared if it does not happen. Like 27 years from now to start replacing and eating all the dehydrated food that you


Or you could just continue live off of what you produce, harvest, gather, hunt, fish, cull store and preserve as we do now. In fact one thing I always stress is no matter how you prep, eat and use what you store. A drastic change from a supermarket diet to a dehydrated survival foods, beans and rice diet or even to a diet of garden fresh, canned/preserved produce, game, fish and wild foods will play havoc with not only your digestive system but can also lead to food depression even though you may be getting more nourishment than you are now.

I could care less about what happens in 27 years, by than the maggots and worms will have moved in, crapping out what is left of me.



MDsapper said:


> I'm only making about 1000 a month, so after i pay my bills i only have enough money to buy a box or 2 of ammo and the rest goes into my gas tank or into my savings account that i'll use when i go to the pa gunsmithing school. so not all of us choose to decrease our chances of survival we just have to play the cards that we are dealt


If you recognize the difficulty of maintaining your way of life by living where you are now. Make a decision to move to a more suitable area. It has been my experience that once folks make the decision and focus on how they are going to make it happen instead of all the reasons why they can't. It turns out that they can make it happen. Does not mean it is always easy, and may require some sacrifices. It comes down to priorities. As an example my wife works health care, helping people live and heal is part of who she is. She works not because she has to but because it is what gives her life meaning and value. She like me also needed to get out of the city, not just to prep but to maintain our sanity. She fell in love with this place and wanted to live here. So she made a choice. For the first five years we lived here she got up at 5:AM to go to work and come home at about 8PM to be in bed by ten. Commuting 7.5 hours every day for a fifteen hour work day. For five years she never saw our place in daylight except on week ends. Having this place and helping people were her priority. She did what it took to make it happen. It is not really about money. The cost of living in rural areas tends to be less than cities (unless you are moving to a retirement or tourist area). It is about what price are you willing to pay to make it happen. What your priorities really are.



101airborne said:


> So my question to you is... are WE preppers?


No doubt in my mind you are but I am willing to bet you'd really enjoy being self sustaining.


----------



## LongRider

101airborne said:


> Now like sentry I have cable T.V. with about 500 channels, Internet, video games, some 500 DVD's, around 400 CD's,


My wife has every record album, CD she ever bought in pristine condition and she has bought music every payday since she was thirteen. We also have hundreds of DVDs, part of our monthly entertainment budget is buying up DVD's, BluRays including TV series. Many remain new unopened, especially older movies that we have seen like the Godfather, or TV series like Midnight Special and the like. Those are essential preps IMO along with an extensive library, we buy more books than we an possibly read. After all what are we gonna watch once the internet, cable and the movie theaters shut down.

Edited to add. I should have started out saying good thinking 101airborne


----------



## HoppeEL4

I don't know LongRider...living in a larger town/city, can be cheaper, less gas (with prices lately you know), and closer to the types of stores that provide the deals many of us either just live on for food, or use to prep with. Around where I am, the rents or properties out here are more. However, our house is one of the very few exceptions. The Portland, metro area (which although we are rural, we are a commutable distance, so our area counts into this) is a landlords market right now. There is a glut of foreclosed homes, banks are holding tight to them, and decent affordable rentals are not to be had, pretty much anywhere around here.

I have seen the price differences of eastern Oregon's grocery stores compared to what we can find here. I do drive into three main places every couple of weeks, due to the fact that the stores out here are the higher priced ones, it would suck up more of what little we have left.

Now on the other hand, my daughter and her husband have been offered a deal way out in the country (Willamette Valley) by his uncles farm. He has been working up here, and they are barely making it (she cannot find a job). They are paying out almost as much for a two bedroom apartment as we are for a house, they have 2 kids. His uncle offered him a job on his farm, making similar wage as up here, but there is this place down the road that was abandoned, livable but dirty and needing some work, he got it for them for....(drum roll please) $150 a month!!!!!!!!Yeah, that's when country living will pay off and be cheaper.


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## ContinualHarvest

MDsapper said:


> my biggest issue is that maryland sux, the cost of living here is so damn high that i'm barely get to have time to myself cuz i'm working so much for 9.50 an hour. but as soon as i get into the school things wil change cuz my gi bill will cover the entire cost of the school as well as my housing with some to spare so i'll be able to get my debt taken care of as well as adding to my preps. also i'm already commuting 20 min. to my job already and it drains the gas out of my truck when i'm doing that 5+ times a week. my insurance is as low as i can get it for the state of maryland. and screw ramen i'll stick with my potatoes


The job market in our city does suck. But, if SHTF, most of the yuppies won't know what to do and will be over-run by the scum on Pennsylvania Ave and Bishop's Garth and the little ghetto on Center Street past the health department. Eventually, they will die off because they won't know how to survive after the readily available supplies are gone. The trick is to have enough to outlast them, then go hunt, fish, trap and grow your own food. There are plenty of big old farms and hidden dirt roads around her to get around without seeing many people.


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## sailaway

I live in a city and i am a prepper. Im actually mayor of my city and leader of the zombies! Lol. When i think about it my fellow zombies are preppers too! ! To keep thier way of prepping going they all voted for obama. Hehehe, of a city of 25,000 we are now a minority majority, 70% of the homes are rental property, 65% of the school children get free school breakfasts & lunches along with take home weekend meals and we can't forget the Obama phones. They even tell me its easier to get on general relief hee than Detroit or Chiago. They don't even have to pee in the cup like in Florida. All they had to do was cast a vote now that's hat I call prepping 

As for me I can be out of town in 10-15 min. I can be gone on the sailboat in 5 min. I have a responsibility to stay though and lead the zombies. For the $120.00/week I make I don't know quite ho long I would stay though. Right no my family consist of me and my lab. 

While the zombies have raised all their pi bulls to fight so they can behave like bad asses, I have trained mine to hunt birds, he's a natural, he's ood at moving deer and flushing small game too mine will help feed me and protect me if I get out-


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## sailaway

I live in a city and i am a prepper. Im actually mayor of my city and leader of the zombies! Lol. When i think about it my fellow zombies are preppers too! ! To keep thier way of prepping going they all voted for obama. Hehehe, of a city of 25,000 we are now a minority majority, 70% of the homes are rental property, 65% of the school children get free school breakfasts & lunches along with take home weekend meals and we can't forget the Obama phones. They even tell me its easier to get on general relief hee than Detroit or Chiago. They don't even have to pee in the cup like in Florida. All they had to do was cast a vote now that's hat I call prepping 

As for me I can be out of town in 10-15 min. I can be gone on the sailboat in 5 min. I have a responsibility to stay though and lead the zombies. For the $120.00/week I make I don't know quite how long I would stay though. Right now my family consist of me and my lab. 

While the zombies have raised all their pit bulls to fight so they can behave like bad asses, I have trained mine to hunt birds, he's a natural, he's good at moving deer and flushing small game too mine will help feed me and protect me if I get out.


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## fondini

Yes but fleeing to put in bay will not help much! 
I'm in the same boat as you and wonder flee to where? Davis Bessie is a concern, Toledo has even more zombies, I'm thinking south of Columbus or west to?


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> I don't know LongRider...living in a larger town/city, can be cheaper, less gas (with prices lately you know), and closer to the types of stores that provide the deals many of us either just live on for food, or use to prep with. Around where I am, the rents or properties out here are more. However, our house is one of the very few exceptions. The Portland, metro area (which although we are rural, we are a commutable distance, so our area counts into this) is a landlords market right now. There is a glut of foreclosed homes, banks are holding tight to them, and decent affordable rentals are not to be had, pretty much anywhere around here.
> 
> I have seen the price differences of eastern Oregon's grocery stores compared to what we can find here. I do drive into three main places every couple of weeks, due to the fact that the stores out here are the higher priced ones, it would suck up more of what little we have left.
> 
> Now on the other hand, my daughter and her husband have been offered a deal way out in the country (Willamette Valley) by his uncles farm. He has been working up here, and they are barely making it (she cannot find a job). They are paying out almost as much for a two bedroom apartment as we are for a house, they have 2 kids. His uncle offered him a job on his farm, making similar wage as up here, but there is this place down the road that was abandoned, livable but dirty and needing some work, he got it for them for....(drum roll please) $150 a month!!!!!!!!Yeah, that's when country living will pay off and be cheaper.


Our view would cost a million plus in Seattle, adding the property would put it in Bill Gates territory. In Seattle a studio or small one bedroom runs about a grand. Out here a three bedroom house starts at around $600. If you rent year round, vacation cottages ON the water can be had for less. Farther out on the Peninsula is even less except around Port Townsend and Port Angeles the prices start to go up around those cities. 
What we don't grow, we buy from local farms or at the farmers market on Saturdays. Both generally cheaper the chain grocery stores. When we hit the big box stores we make it an night out on the town, Portland, Olympia or Seattle depending and get a room. Gas here is comparable to what it is on the I5 corridor, on any of the of the Rez's less. 
In the mountains and east land home prices really drop. Lots of land is still available for a grand or less an acre. Depending on location big box stores shopping malls are likely an semi annual event.



ContinualHarvest said:


> then go hunt, fish, trap and grow your own food.


That may be a far more difficult proposition than you imagine, if you are not already doing it. Do you hunt now? Do you bag your limit every year? Enough to keep meat on the table year around? Do you garden now? Enough to feed your family year round? If not the likely hood of doing so after SHTF is small to nil at best.


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## Tactic12

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> IF you are on hourly dialisis treatments then there is no reason
> to be a prepper.
> Wife,Job,nothing will make it ok with you as you lay dying
> So I have thrown down the gauntlet here!
> Lets hear what makes it ok.
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.
> And if SHMG somebody whines about the girlfriend.
> I WILL FROWN YOU INTO INSIGNIFIGANCE..
> 1 other item please do not verbally attack the other (any?)
> brave people who side with me on this.
> Disagree with respect please.
> I am fair game! Hit me with your best shot!


Back to the original question. Are you prepared for nothing to happen? I still live in the city for just that reason. I make good money where I'm at which is currently still valuable. If nothing happens, I would like to leave something to the kids. I live in the city for the present, & prep to leave if needed in the future. Best answer I can give you!

Are you prepared for nothing to happen?


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## HoppeEL4

LongRider, I did not have a clue someone else could rent on one of the Rez's...We're not far, really, from Warm Springs, but, ehem..I'd rather not they are having lots of troubles over there. I liked it going through Yakima, seemed better kept and people seemed more motivated (properties kept up and productive).

I know east of the mountains in both our states, that outside of the main towns, rent is cheap, I love it in NE Oregon, it's my favorite place to be, but absolutely no jobs, that's the problem, and my kids (who don't live with me now) are over here as well as my two grandkids. With the way my daughter and her husband think (live in the day), if SHTF I want to be nearby to help. My son now lives about 30 minutes from us too, he is far more independent, but still, he is our son. We still have one at home, and my mother is nearby. Staying put is something we need to do.


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## MDsapper

ContinualHarvest said:


> The job market in our city does suck. But, if SHTF, most of the yuppies won't know what to do and will be over-run by the scum on Pennsylvania Ave and Bishop's Garth and the little ghetto on Center Street past the health department. Eventually, they will die off because they won't know how to survive after the readily available supplies are gone. The trick is to have enough to outlast them, then go hunt, fish, trap and grow your own food. There are plenty of big old farms and hidden dirt roads around her to get around without seeing many people.


yeah i live about 5 miles outside of town so i dont have to worry about all those crack heads on pa. ave.


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## 101airborne

LongRider said:


> My wife has every record album, CD she ever bought in pristine condition and she has bought music every payday since she was thirteen. We also have hundreds of DVDs, part of our monthly entertainment budget is buying up DVD's, BluRays including TV series. Many remain new unopened, especially older movies that we have seen like the Godfather, or TV series like Midnight Special and the like. Those are essential preps IMO along with an extensive library, we buy more books than we an possibly read. After all what are we gonna watch once the internet, cable and the movie theaters shut down.
> 
> Edited to add. I should have started out saying good thinking 101airborne


Thanks Longrider, My thought was/is that once we can move to "the place" we'll be at the end of a 4 mile long gravel road, and 25 miles from the nearest town. So it would be very possible to be snowed in at some point during the winter and the movies would help pass the time. Under todays "normal" conditions. Plus as you said when things break down and cable/ sattelite (sp?) is gone, TV stations are off the air the movies will help give at least some aspect of a normal life. Most of the time when I hit a yard sale I'll grab every DVD,CD, book they have if decent price. If I end up with a duplicate of something it goes in the trade box to swap with friends or as a possible barter item later. We do the same with coloring books, crayons, craft stuff, and the like.


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## 101airborne

LongRider;No doubt in my mind you are but I am willing to bet you'd really enjoy being self sustaining.[/QUOTE said:


> Oh yeah I would LOVE to be able to do so again. When I lived in Ky. I had 125 acres lots of woods, a couple of ponds with fish, a huge garden, fruit trees, rabbits, chickens, turkeys,ducks, as well as raising a couple pigs, sheep, and calves to slaughter every year along with a few goats for milk and such. While not fully we were about 80% self-sustaining and HOPEFULLY when we move to the place I can do most of it again.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Wow I've been reading etc for a few days.
Thanks for your participation in this discussion all of you!


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## ReconCraftTheta

Sentry18 said:


> If I get what you're going for here; I would say that my very lifestyle decreases my chances. I have satellite TV, fiber optic internet, a smart phone, etc., etc. That is a solid $300-400 a month that I am NOT putting into my preps. I spend some of my free time playing video games, watching movies or sleeping when I could be training, reading about survival or working on my homes defenses. I could go on, but I think you get my drift. So my one reason is that I want to balance a fun and satisfying life with my desire for longer term safety and security.


Amen, my friend, amen.

I'll give you an argument for the whole city piece.
I'm 18 and I will be living in Philadelphia for the next few years, why? Because (key thing being my age) I wish to further my education. Where I live right now offers absolutely nothing for me in the way of learning more about my second love (music) and turning what I love into a steady career. Doesn't mean I'm not prepping. Doesn't mean I'm not learning anything. I spend a lot of time outdoors in the woods as well as working on music and entertaining myself. The beauty, or rather should be beauty of this forum is preppers of *ALL* walks of life can join each other here and discuss our experiences.

There's also like Sentry18 said, a sold part of my paycheck I can't invest in prepping because it needs to go to other things being the girlfriend, my car loan, and my education.


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## LongRider

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Now I feel guilty for even thinking about it!
> (So that's why I'm so dirt poor?!?!)


A poor honorable man is a far far better man than one with great wealth and no honor.



HoppeEL4 said:


> LongRider, I did not have a clue someone else could rent on one of the Rez's...


Actually not what I had said but it is true anyone can rent on the Rez. But you need to remember on the rez you are not a citizen of that nation so while you are required to comply with the rules laws and policies of that Nation you have no vote or say. Also on the rez depending on how they want to handle jurisdiction what is a felony outside the rez can be dealt with as a federal offense



HoppeEL4 said:


> my kids (who don't live with me now) are over here as well as my two grandkids. With the way my daughter and her husband think (live in the day), if SHTF I want to be nearby to help. My son now lives about 30 minutes from us too, he is far more independent, but still, he is our son. We still have one at home, and my mother is nearby. Staying put is something we need to do.


I think that these are legitimate reasons why someone may stay in a urban area. It is those who say that they can not be self sustaining, live off grid in an wilderness or at least rural area because of money that I doubt. In most cases that is not the real reason IMO


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## LongRider

101airborne said:


> Thanks Longrider, My thought was/is that once we can move to "the place" we'll be at the end of a 4 mile long gravel road, and 25 miles from the nearest town. So it would be very possible to be snowed in at some point during the winter and the movies would help pass the time. Under todays "normal" conditions. Plus as you said when things break down and cable/ sattelite (sp?) is gone, TV stations are off the air the movies will help give at least some aspect of a normal life.


You pretty much described our general location. We are at about 900 feet above sea level and get snowed in without power each year for a bit. The longest period was about three months. We love it. It is our time test our preps and equipment. As well as enjoy the silence and peace winter snows bring. Interesting thing we have noticed is though we do have movies and the necessary power along with wireless internet connection. We tend to quickly settle in reading and playing board games for entertainment. Some years a movie a night but most often we are happy with a movie night on Fridays. We rarely get on the net though it is our only real connection to the outside world. But we do have to have our music



101airborne said:


> Oh yeah I would LOVE to be able to do so again. When I lived in Ky. I had 125 acres lots of woods, a couple of ponds with fish, a huge garden, fruit trees, rabbits, chickens, turkeys,ducks, as well as raising a couple pigs, sheep, and calves to slaughter every year along with a few goats for milk and such. While not fully we were about 80% self-sustaining and HOPEFULLY when we move to the place I can do most of it again.


Yeah that was my guess, once you've been here it is not a way of life you want to be away from for too long.


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## Canadian

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> You city dwellers are not preppers
> IF you are a prepper there is no reason not to leave wherever
> you are if you have a 10% decreased probability of survival.
> 
> I challenge each and every person that reads this to find 1
> reason for a PREPPER to choose to decrease his chances.


By your logic anyone who lives in America is decreasing their chances of survival. Just by living in America you as exposing yourself to the risk of death by terrorist attacks or nuclear bombs. the USA is just one giant target for terrorists and rouge nations all over the world.

If you wanted to be safer you'd move up to the far north away from all of those threats. Since you chose to live in a country that is a massive terrorist target you're not a prepper.

A prepper would never decrease their chances of survival. Isn't that what you said? So pack your bags or admit you're wrong.


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## kappydell

.....scuuuuuuuse me??????


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## HoppeEL4

LongRider, we're not urban, we live out towards Mt. Hood. We were urban to some degree once, and so glad we are not now. The nice thing is all of my kids will no longer live in the vicinity of Portland anymore, this is a relief to me, although having my oldest and her family an hour away was not something I wanted (she has my only two grandkids). The good part of that is the kids will be in the country away from the crime rate that they were living in.


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> LongRider, we're not urban, we live out towards Mt. Hood. We were urban to some degree once, and so glad we are not now. The nice thing is all of my kids will no longer live in the vicinity of Portland anymore, this is a relief to me, although having my oldest and her family an hour away was not something I wanted (she has my only two grandkids). The good part of that is the kids will be in the country away from the crime rate that they were living in.


My bad for some reason I thought you were on the out skirts or Portland maybe Hermiston. Regarding your previous post about needing to get a gun. May I suggest that you consider an AR carbine. They are small, light weight with minimal recoil. They are among the easiest weapons for a lady to learn on, run (operate), maintain and easy to carry if need be. With proper ammo it can be used for self defense and hunting. Unlike Geneva Convention complaint ammo, modern quality self defense .223 ammo like Winchester's PDX ammo is designed to dump all of its energy immediately into whatever it hits. The result is tremendous stopping power in an attacker AND it does not penetrate dry wall. So a low risk round for homes and even apartments. I am unsure of your familiarity with firearms but do yourself a favor and at least find one you can shoot.


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## HoppeEL4

LongRider, VERY unfamiliar with firearms, never shot one, well except at carnivals!!LOL


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> LongRider, VERY unfamiliar with firearms, never shot one, well except at carnivals!!LOL


An AR15 would be an excellent starter gun. No doubt many may disagree. Yet for tens of thousands an AR is the first gun they ever shoot and within months are using them in combat. Get someone to teach you ideally not your DH, guns are like cars spouses are better off staying out of the learning process.


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## fondini

LongRider said:


> An AR15 would be an excellent starter gun. No doubt many may disagree. Yet for tens of thousands an AR is the first gun they ever shoot and within months are using them in combat. Get someone to teach you ideally not your DH, guns are like cars spouses are better off staying out of the learning process.


Best advice ever!


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