# What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?



## keepitlow (Oct 22, 2009)

Steal food, water whatever and kill others to get the goods. What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world? 

I put it at 10% 

Am I too low? 

If so, what is the number? 

What do you base it on? 

Thanks


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

keepitlow said:


> Steal food, water whatever and kill others to get the goods. What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?
> 
> What do you base it on?


In general terms, I believe it'll be based on the "haves" and the "have not's".
Most of those that have will defend it, especially when threatened. If not threatened, bartering or communal efforts could occur to the benefit to both parties.

Then there's those that don't have. Some will fight and kill to get what they need, others will beg.

There's a 3rd group of those that will try to gain power from the chaos and control the flow of goods. These will have attained their power most likely by killing (and probably make up a good percentage of those that will start killing quickly after SHTF).

IMHO, it appears to be a classic example of Sheep, Sheepdogs and Wolves. (_A google search of that term gives lots of references if you're not familiar with it)_. Let me color coat it. 
Sheepdog
Sheep
Wolves

As for percentages, that's hard to tell. It'll be a lot different in urban areas as opposed to rural. The level of SHTF will also make a difference. Climate? Is there power? Do vehicles run? Is the air and/or water toxic? Lots of variables.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

some prolly at least 10% would kill just cause they could, and prolly another 10% would kill for very little, another 20% might finaly get desparate and kill and of that group the some would continue to kill for "sport" :gaah: or maybe humans are better than that and no body will get killed:scratch


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

And there will be those that will be afraid things could go back to normal quickly and think the law might come a knocking, i think some with badges will be the worst. Use their status to take advantage of folks. If it gos to crap the last thing i would do is lay down arms or surender them to the so called law. They out right stole folks only way to protect their families during katrina, i,d say around 20% in an all out FUBAR. Better than that LOL! sorry but a large section of humans will turn into animals or what they really were in the first place, will show. Faith not in the human race, nope not a bit.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I'd have to go with bczoom on this & say that it really depends on what you mean by 'killers'... in the right (wrong?) situation we're almost all killers for one reason or another


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Don't under estimate the desire to survive. I know without a doubt I would defend me and mine by whatever means necessary, including shoot to kill, and I am a very quiet and generous person. I fear the younger generation that won't be denied. Their give it to me now attitude will lead to grief.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Clarice said:


> Don't under estimate the desire to survive. I know without a doubt I would defend me and mine by whatever means necessary, including shoot to kill, and I am a very quiet and generous person. I fear the younger generation that won't be denied. Their give it to me now attitude will lead to grief.


HEY!  We're not ALL like that! :gaah: :surrender:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Sorry Blob, I should rephrase and say some of the younger generation has the "I won't be denied attitude"


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

And some of us old people who have been prepping for years, might be considered "expendable" by some, if nothing else just so those who didn't prepare could justify taking. 

Despite the number of people who think they could never kill another, I think when their backs are against the wall or their loved ones are threatened, or just the desperation of survival, could make anyone a killer. 

It's a different kind of "killer" from peacetime murderers. Don't feel like you're a bad person if you believe you could or would kill to survive or to protect your own. 

I would do so, and I'm not a bad person.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Every time I try to group people , I learn that it doesn't work ,but the longer someone (percentage of life experience) lives in an instant world the more they expect it. My teen age son has researched more about self sufficiency than most , and he just wants to know the simple ways , he is pretty sure that he will get a team of horses to feed the cattle for instance. But the kids he went to school with would rather discuss the latest tech gizmo and feel that society will take care of them.
Back to the origonal question, a lot of people would kill an attacker to defend their loved ones and rightly so , but that is a whole different thing than killing to raise their social position


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> a lot of people would kill an attacker to defend their loved ones and rightly so , but that is a whole different thing than killing to raise their social position


I'm NO quitter, but if a post-apocalyptic 'society' developed like that, I'm not so sure I would want to be a part of it, even if it *did* have x-box


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

The_Blob said:


> I'm NO quitter, but if a post-apocalyptic 'society' developed like that, I'm not so sure I would want to be a part of it, even if it *did* have x-box


That society exists today. If someone attacked me or mine, I wouldn't see a choice but to drop him/them.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I think it will be a lot higher percentage then most think... reason.

LA alone is said by LEO's to hold 35,000 gang members, yes a lot are in the 12 to 15 yo bracket..they will kill you just as dead as a 40 yo MS 13 ganger...

The following may appear racist to some of you but...I'm not a racist, I'm a realist... look at the LA riots... and they got away with it... untold thousands running thru the streets burning and looting for days... 

I'm sorry but really when was the last time a cop shot a white felon and the whites burned their own hood??? it's don't even take a shooting for there to be a riot... In Oakland last year I think it was , a Black fugitive shot and killed 4 police officers.. when the cops finely killed him the Blacks in Oakland were getting in front of the cameras and screaming that the cops didn't need to kill him coz he was a good man... uh huh...

Damned if I don't sound like a racist... but those things did happen and will again..

IF LA has 35,000 bangers how many does Houston, Dallas, FT Worth ... ....How many does "Texas" have... add up all the big cities.. and folks these are people you don't want to know!! and they are armed! 

Now.. how about the Outlaw bikers?? probably no more then 10 to 15 thousand nation wide... but they are already outlaws..and armed...

I'd say that 10 % of the population not included in the above figures would love to see a break down.. they are already punks, dopers, petty thieves , 

Now add in another 15 % who will say screw it it's dog eat dog and use that to explain their actions...But.. they won't last long..."too" long? yes but they will die off fast... 

Women and girls of all ages will be instant targets... don't believe that? if you have a teen age daughter take her to the mall and walk 25 yards behind her and watch ...even the nicest clean cut men of all ages will look at her and most will turn to watch her walking away! How do I know? because I do it too! it's the male beast... am I going to act on it? hell no... but how many will?... so....

25 %...35 %?... think 50 % and you will be closer.. civilization is held together by a thin thread... think about your neighborhood .. how many are slobs? never clean their yards? toss beer cans all over the place and play their music way too loud while in their garage... who's kids run wild?.... think this dudes going to start going to church come SHTF? , going to clean up his act?... 

I'm a realist...and a pessimist... Murphy lives in my life... and half the time he's swinging from my "Nad's" screaming YEHAAAAAAAAA.... I have faith in my AK and my closest friends ... there it is... or as we grunts used to say..."It is what it is"..

I would like to believe I'm wrong..but I'm not..


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## bradthebard (Sep 23, 2010)

Some good thoughts here. I'll add some of my own perspective to it.

The chances of someone killing randomly will increase exponentially as you move into urban areas. Two reasons for this. 
First off there will be a much greater likelyhood of mob mentality. Get a relatively sane person in the middle of a big mob of crazies and the crazy starts rubbing off. A pack of humans will do things that individuals would never do.

Secondly you have a situation where transportation and logistics will be disrupted. That means within a matter of days the food supply will be completely gone in urban areas. Mobs are bad. Real hungry mobs suck.

SHTF, the best bet for the first month or two would be to bug out, hunker down and be as invisible as you can. For all intents and purposes, 100% of the population is a killer and you have to sleep sometime.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> if you have a teen age daughter take her to the mall and walk 25 yards behind her and watch ...even the nicest clean cut men of all ages will look at her and most will turn to watch her walking away! How do I know? because I do it too! it's the male beast... am I going to act on it? hell no... but how many will?... so....


I for one do not have a teenage daughter but would be interested in trying your experiment... Do you have one for loan... Very Big Grin.

On a serious note first world countries have not prepared women for SHTF. Women in general are very well protected from predation and it has made them assume that is the way it always was and will be. Then we have TV shows where on woman kicks a bunch of large men's butts and women start to think this is the way it is. Simple equation, pour testosterone into the system and you get heaver bone mass and larger muscles. Fair or not the non testosterone enhanced animal will lose.

For this very reason I have worked hard to make sure my wife shoots very well and is equipped with a weapon that is designed to work with her. As such I have very little fear of someone attacking her but I do fear for her attacker...

As for what percentage of people will turn into killers? The answer is none. All people are already killers and just have not had the correct environment to express that side of their programming.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

carlnet , if you think a male is more dangerous , try threatening a females offspring , whole different animal then


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> carlnet , if you think a male is more dangerous , try threatening a females offspring , whole different animal then


This has nothing to do with intent. It has to do with the abilities inherent in the animal. Go to any third world country and walk around unescorted as a female and see what happens.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> carlnet , if you think a male is more dangerous , try threatening a females offspring , whole different animal then


I think it's more the proclivity that he's talking about, rather than the capability... :dunno:


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

carlnet said:


> I for one do not have a teenage daughter but would be interested in trying your experiment... Do you have one for loan... Very Big Grin.
> 
> On a serious note first world countries have not prepared women for SHTF. Women in general are very well protected from predation and it has made them assume that is the way it always was and will be. Then we have TV shows where on woman kicks a bunch of large men's butts and women start to think this is the way it is. Simple equation, pour testosterone into the system and you get heaver bone mass and larger muscles. Fair or not the non testosterone enhanced animal will lose.
> 
> ...


No I don't have one...thank god..all my friends daughters are now in that 13 to 16 bracket... I got the Mall thing from 2 of them's dad, we were sitting in a mall admiring the "view" and he was enjoying it too when he said ya kno...all these hotties are about 15... I about fell off the bench, he was right!! I never looked at their faces just the rest.. they weren't built like that when I was 15 that's for damn sure or else they were but didn't have it on display!

As for arming the wives and GF's I've found I can teach them to shoot and even make them really think about doing it...but I've yet to get but one to be truly aware of the world around them...

Even my male friends know better then to place me with my back to the door and yet the ladies give me crap for it... they just don't "look" or "see"... and how do you teach them ? and teenagers are the worlds worse.. if they had to describe a felon to the police they might know what kind of cell phone he had or what kind of jeans he wore but that's it...

So..I always make sure I'm aware and work to teach them to be...I did have some results with one GF .. she pointed out to me 3 guys who were packing.. under their jackets... I said Good Job!! she said who are they and I said "Feds" she asked how I knew...I said...new jeans , new work shirts with shelf creases and new walking boots... and they were!! she worked for Fed X and saw them the next day at the local FBI office... they were trying to fit in with the locals ...poor guys... but a few days later they caught a very wanted bad guy who was here in the Helena area...

So...tell them to be aware, look at who's moving around them and never sit with their back to the door unless your with them..and when possible sit near the exit... and in the time it takes to scream they can move a good 20 feet! on the sitting note..I always pick where "I" want to set, not where the hostess wants me to be... and they always smile and say surly!!

Just a few hints.. things I've learned from many years of being a LEO and an OUTLAW...lol


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## Tennessepreppers (Sep 7, 2010)

In my opinion everyone who cares and prepares now will be capable or better be so if ur not you need to work on that now. That's a necessary skill or ability. It's you or them and I will try and make sure its not me.


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

I agree with bczoom's line of thinking....in any case my whole family...including the women are ready to defend themselves and their loved ones. I have already witnessed the aftermath of my wife and youngest (10 years old) in action when a trespasser came onto the hunting camp and refused to leave. I arrived at the property just after the incident......I saw my wife pointing her pistol at a guy who was face down in the mud. My daughter was backing up my wife with a double barrel shotgun. My sons who were with me were out of the truck with rifles in hand before I could come to a complete stop. The trespasser sure was happy when the sheriff came to take him away.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Good for you and yours, Exp. It's good to know there are still some Americans out there who can defend themselves rather than hope the guvmint will save them.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> but I've yet to get but one to be truly aware of the world around them...


Easy. They are not predators. Predators must keep an eye peeled at all times for both other predators (competition) and prey (food)... If you look at most prey animals that operate in a herd only a few keep an eye out for danger. The rest just mosey around munching away. If you study the movements of cattle allowed to free roam and then compare that to most groups of people the similarity is hilarious!


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Good work. It is one thing to have a plan another to implement it.


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## bassman (Jan 3, 2009)

I'm with you, gypsysue, I would kill to protect my family and for survival. But not to take someone elses goods or for the "Hell Of It" ! I'm not a bad person either. 
I also like tyo keep a low profile as to what I have on hand!


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## mrbroker (Jul 21, 2010)

*I don't think about killing. I think about not getting killed.*

My daughters are 8 and 6. Both are aware of daddy's sword that is displayed atop a bookshelf (at arms reach) in our living room. Both assume that daddy could and would take out an army of intruders with this piece of metal if they threatened our home. Daddy, however, thinks the sword is a cool statement of our heritage and would much prefer to defend them with one of our weapons that includes gunpowder in the equation. My daughters tell their friends that I am Superman and argue with them if the friend disagrees. I am there shepherd and protector. They know that I would die for them. That type of understanding of roles in a family is becoming more and more uncommon. Children need to learn to trust their parents and the parents need to learn ways to teach them beneficial skills.

My wife is a girlie girl, brilliant in many ways, yet still a lady who prefers a condo at the beach over camping in the mountains. Absolutely no moments of her childhood were spent learning about the outdoors, let alone survival or defense. Thanks to Tiffany Lackowsky, she is willing to learn to hunt and therefore handle at least a shotgun and bow. In our society, she doesn't have to have but basic common sense to be relatively safe. Hunting has been a way for me to break through barriers with her in learning to shoot. My 8 year old girl can take out cans with my 9mm pistol and we just got a Ruger 10/22 for her and her sister to learn to shoot with. They both have recurve bows that they are learning to use as well. They love it.

The point is that if SHTF, who is your leader or who are you leading. Practicing those roles in your everyday life now will allow for an easier transition later. If you are the leader, what are you teaching your charges. How are you teaching them to defend themselves in that type of situation, where evil is not held at bay by the restraints of law? How would you live in worse than medieval times? My band of brothers would be a small platoon to protect our families, but what situations would we be looked at as bandits or 'killers'?

Most people would die before accepting even a short life in the wilderness, however, nature gives us everything we need. You'll find water, food, shelter, and the ability to defend yourself from the relatively few 'killers' you would encounter. Even so, the subtle training and conditioning of your family for defensive battle is extremely important and is not something that happens overnight.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

One factor that held back killing with firearms was target selection. According to the studies, with roughly 10% doing 90% of the killing. S.L.A. Marshall went into depth about this, his work was purely military related, but at least it provides an idea. So it was roughly 10% readily involved in killings, going higher when life is directly threatened, and much higher for elite forces, like the Marine Corps, Paratroopers, and Waffen SS. 

HOWEVER, part of what he never really got heavily in was the hesitation over target selection. Often the instinct to shoot got hampered by the the intense desire to make sure they shot the right individuals. 

One weird thing mentioned about "Generation Kill" is they grew up as gamers. We'd noted in the past (end of the Cold War Era for me) that the young soldiers were hot on using weapon systems, quick on target selection, rapid on acquisition, with quick reflexes. This was noted in Iraq and Afghanistan with the ratio often reversed, these young service men have tremendous ratios of shooter to non shooters. 90% or 100% of those engaged and able to return fire, firing isn't uncommon. 

...generally, these folks are a bit more dilligent than the average individual on the streets with a lower percentage of dirt bags, but generally you get the picture, among younger folks, many, given enough stress and threat will shoot.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> "Generation Kill" is they grew up as gamers.


Interesting point and one that I think is worth considerable study. I have a pet theory that the reason violent crime keeps falling is that people now have an outlet for their violent tendencies within the video game world. If you have violent tendencies you can live them out as fantasy any number of ways with no repercussions. Whereas in the past you just had to go out and do the violent act and get to experience from only one frame of reference. Or to put it another way, it is my belief that for many violence in the real world is less fun.


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## RoadRash (Sep 29, 2010)

I was out for coffee with some friends and I started talking bout WTSHTF they looked at me in wild amazement , but they assumed the Gov't would look after them....... 
I do not belive the Gov't has looked after me nor will they.
The Gov't will look after themselves rations to elite and army first ,Young fit skilled trades dr's nurses second..... Then if there is anything left l guess some may trickle down to appease the masses, Martial law comes into affect they take what they need from who ever or wherever they can. 

I think most people belive the Gov't will look after them but when the shelves are empty food rations are less and less the stronger will form roving packs to survive spreadin further and further out from the city. They do not know how to fish hunt so they will take by any means possible I look at home invasions and car jackings the same thugs will do the same for food weapons and supplies.They will carry on doing what they have always done It will be a brutal time for all surving people. Being a city folk myself I can fish no hunting since a kid with uncle, after my supplies run out I will be heading to the country or the water. So yes at some point I think the vast majority will leave urban areas due to roving gangs lack of food safety. We have been brought up that country folk are more tolerant giving then city people.


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## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

kyfarmer said:


> And there will be those that will be afraid things could go back to normal quickly and think the law might come a knocking, i think some with badges will be the worst. Use their status to take advantage of folks. If it gos to crap the last thing i would do is lay down arms or surender them to the so called law. They out right stole folks only way to protect their families during katrina, i,d say around 20% in an all out FUBAR. Better than that LOL! sorry but a large section of humans will turn into animals or what they really were in the first place, will show. Faith not in the human race, nope not a bit.


Lexxi and I have lost all faith in humans. Hence we are moving out to the middle of no where.


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## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

HozayBuck said:


> I think it will be a lot higher percentage then most think... reason.
> 
> LA alone is said by LEO's to hold 35,000 gang members, yes a lot are in the 12 to 15 yo bracket..they will kill you just as dead as a 40 yo MS 13 ganger...
> 
> ...


Well said. :2thumb:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Guys, most of today's generation (any age) is a me generation. I want what I want and I want it now. I think this will be maginified in a SHTF situation.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug (Jan 27, 2009)

HozayBuck said:


> I think it will be a lot higher percentage then most think... reason.
> 
> LA alone is said by LEO's to hold 35,000 gang members, yes a lot are in the 12 to 15 yo bracket..they will kill you just as dead as a 40 yo MS 13 ganger...
> 
> ...


 looks to be fairly close hozay except in one area.......

there's a lot more than just 10-15 thousand of us.....


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Hard question to nail down a number with...figure only 3% of the population preps..so that leaves a large number of ppl to kill for one reason or another..I think alot will depend on what the event is and how long it lasts..eventually even preppers will turn to da Darkside..when they run out of suff


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## thelongdrink (May 5, 2011)

*pop go nuts*



Clarice said:


> Don't under estimate the desire to survive. I know without a doubt I would defend me and mine by whatever means necessary, including shoot to kill, and I am a very quiet and generous person. I fear the younger generation that won't be denied. Their give it to me now attitude will lead to grief.


When the SHTF and it is time to defend what is your's, you'll know it simply because when you dial 911 and no one answers. then it's time to "Do WHAT YOU GOTTA DO"


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## TrackerRat (Mar 24, 2011)

If someone crosses me and puts my family, myself or my livelihood in danger I will drop them with no remorse.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Tornado hit here Wednesday 4/27

Power was gone and on the radio it was stated we could be three days...that's all.

the next morning, in less than 12 hours, I go to check on my parents as the phones were put as well. The gas station had two lines of people, we are talking small town station....the lines were wrapping around the store and down the road in two directions at least 1/2 mile.

I am thinking, where are you people going? Nothing is open.

Then I have to go get my MIL, she's pretends to be OK, but if I didn't get her, I would never hear the end of it. 

Luckily, starting my habit of fuel tank just a few weeks ago, I didn't have to get gas...but from the interstate, exit ramps are full of people in line to the stations down the road....damnest thing I've ever seen...

Grocery store, people were lined up OUTSIDE, with their carts in hand, waiting to get in...lots of people.

This was happening at EVERY gas station and grocery store that I passed...my MIL is 50 miles away.

What percentage? I say half! Easily! half of the people or more are not prepared at all, then they will more than likely resort to killing.


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## TrackerRat (Mar 24, 2011)

I think half is too optomistic. I put it at less than 10% are prepared


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## bassman (Jan 3, 2009)

Hope everyone is OK down there Dana, welcome to the group. Keep up with your prepping and keep the FAITH, 
Butch


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## frisian (Mar 18, 2011)

Depending on the situation at any given time, I think you could be looking at 40-75% of the population being willing to steal, even perhaps kill to get what they want.

The looting mentality that reins over a short term disaster would increase 10 fold once these same dirtbags realized that things would not return to anywhere near normal for quite some time.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I _*was*_ going to post this message I got on FB in the 'joke' section for you all to get a good laugh at, then I realized it wasn't that funny. Too many people my age think that their *Call of Duty* skillzorz will directly translate into the real world... 

from "Joe":


> i bet u a nickle i out liv teh "end" im pretty well trained in servival and very sneeky, i would say i wil be won of the last 1000 free humans alive.


I am awaiting replies to some *basic* questions I asked; the responses I have received are informative as to what many think 'preparedness' is.

P.S.:
 ...not to be too much of a snob, but if you can't properly capitalize, spell, use punctuation OR a coherent sentence structure (unless for 'flavah' as we are wont to do on this forum from time to time); I'm not going to be disproportionately concerned with your 'sneEkiness'(sic).


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Me: Joe, what SHTF or TEOTWAKI preps you got? How much LTS & H2O? Is your BOB and your BOL ready and easily accessed?

Joe:


> If they have an acronim for it, its not a very good method of servivabilaty, and was probobly made up by losers to feel all big and important on teh internet, my plan are mine own, and not for shareing with the public, the thing i learned in the military spec ops however should be for shareing with the public, but that would get me tossed in a sell.


Another User: The end is near! All this shit going on with BinLaden. Well now the chinese goverment is coming out that they had actually killed him over a year ago with orginal photos n autopisy. But they are making all this hype so people are payin attention when really its all a distraction because therees somethin goin on in the backround. Come on people open up ur eyes!

Joe:


> I got all 3 open wide my friend. those gooks won't get one over on me


Me: well, as long as you've got everything covered, carry on...
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 :nuts:  :nuts:  :nuts:  :nuts:  :nuts:


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

keepitlow said:


> Steal food, water whatever and kill others to get the goods. What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?
> 
> I put it at 10%
> 
> ...


find out how many of the population % is a criminal now and triple it.
A wise man once said:
*"We are three missed meals from savagery."*


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

keepitlow said:


> Steal food, water whatever and kill others to get the goods. What % of the pop turn into killers in a flat out SHTF world?
> 
> I put it at 10%
> 
> ...


I don't think 10% of the population is prepared. I put it more at 1 to 2%. How many people do you know? How many of them are prepared. It might not even be 1%. Prepping is a mindset. My daughter doesn't listen to the news because it makes her nervous. To the few people I have had any conversation about the state of the world, preparing for a situation is not even in their mind. It is an ant and grasshopper situation, and there are a whole bunch of grasshoppers in this world.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

For me I think it will be based strictly on how much food, shelter and medical aid is available.

If it's all pretty much gone, there will be a die off to start with. That will be the people that have no preps what so ever, very old and as much as I hate to say it the very young. The people that are most vulnerable now, will feel the worst effects first.

2nd the folks that make it for the short term, but don't or won't do anything to make life better will be next to go. I'm talking slackers and people that just don't know or want to know how to make gardens, fish or hunt. They want someone else to do it for them.

As food and meds get slimmer and slimmer people that want to survive will do what they have to obtain what they need. Pretty plain and simple. They may be the most dangerous to someone who has things they want.

During all this time there will be the thugs and lowlifes that are gonna try to rules an area by sheer terror and intimidation. They will take what they want when they want.

If you think about our life now, as things are still pretty normal, the same rule will apply during a long term SHTF situation. Just MHO.

Jimmy


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