# Possible Post SHTF Micro Enterprises



## offgridcooker (Mar 5, 2012)

Possible Post SHTF Micro Enterprises?
Which post SHTF micro enterprises will be successful? 
You may be located in a secured street market setting or a camp setting, or maybe not.

How about “Soup and Shower”?
Soup, bread and a shower, these are services that would fairly easy to provide after a disaster. You would need some large wood fired cookers and water heaters. Wood is the only fuel you can rely on when there are problems with electricity gas and transportation.

The problem with this idea is, that when there is a disaster, people expect everything to be free, even if they can pay. You would probably be looked upon with scorn for profiting on the peoples needs! So never mind! 

But if you were to go in business post SHTF, you capitalist pig! What micro enterprise would you start?
Where or what setting would you do business?
Would it be moral to provide essential services to the people just because you wanted to make a 10% profit?


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## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

i would set up shop in a town and provide gunsmithing services. which is what i'll be doing reguardless of a shtf situation.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I was a gunsmith for many years, I could be again.


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## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

and i could use all the help i could get


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

Firewood and lumber
Alcohol
garden plants

In the book "Five acres and Independence" There was a line "Have something to sell every day."


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

It would depend on just how bad it really was. If 90% of us population were to die, then no i wouldnt give a rats ass what the rest of the survivors thought. As for micro-biz: as long as my basic needs were already met, i could be pretty flexible w my demands. Maybe a clean safe room to rent. Shower, hot meal, minor medical treatment... Now what would i charge? Food water and the rest of the basics would already be there. Money? Laughable! Maybe a good lay, if she was decent looking. Ammo n weapons? Yup.


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## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

i'd take just about anything, cuz you never know what people will find valuable.


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## offgridcooker (Mar 5, 2012)

seanallen said:


> It would depend on just how bad it really was. If 90% of us population were to die, then no i wouldnt give a rats ass what the rest of the survivors thought. As for micro-biz: as long as my basic needs were already met, i could be pretty flexible w my demands. Maybe a clean safe room to rent. Shower, hot meal, minor medical treatment... Now what would i charge? Food water and the rest of the basics would already be there. Money? Laughable! Maybe a good lay, if she was decent looking. Ammo n weapons? Yup.


Good question, what would you do for money? labor? chickens?


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

If the SHTF senario were serious, then money may be less than useful excepting perhaps as fire starter.

Food production, processing and storage is what I would be looking at as a micro business.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

I agree with soup and shower!!!!!!.But I buy and save the small travel size goodies from Wal-Mart and hotels(soap,toothpast.toothbrush,deodarant,pencil paper and matches,sewing kit)would go into a "baggie" for sale or barter!


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Just call up Guido and Tony and start your own protection racket.... LOL


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

Also you could do the same with a "food baggie" small packets instant coffee,tea bags instant soup salt,pepper,sugar,dry milk,dried fruit,nuts, energy bar,packet of instant oatmeal,beef jerky...you get my drift.....


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

MDsapper said:


> and i could use all the help i could get


I'd love to learn and be an apprentice... any gunsmiths in NC looking for help?


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

"Stagecoach" security. Security in general. Seed, egg, and alcohol store. I would not sell guns or ammo. Seeds could be sold for crop percentages after harvest


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

I think it depends on the disaster. If your trying to survive a short term disaster like say a hurricane or tornado, don't bother people will think your a jerk. 

If you end up in a long term situation I think just about everyone with a little extra of something would be a trader. 

As for micro professions; just look back 100-200 years and consider what people did for money. Exploit whatever you have and make best into finished products. You have an apple tree; do you think you could get a better deal trading apples for stuff or a better deal for making your own apple cider or wine? You got a deer or butchered a cow. You the best person to use that hide or should you trade it to the tanner?


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## TrinEire (Jul 23, 2012)

I would set up a blacksmith/ farrier service and leather goods and repair shop. And I would set up a small trading shop with any and all goods for barter as a back up when Smithing is slow.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

TrinEire said:


> I would set up a blacksmith/ farrier service and leather goods and repair shop. And I would set up a small trading shop with any and all goods for barter as a back up when Smithing is slow.


Good idea! The ppl who are doing this stuff now will be the wealthy ones post-SHTF


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I would set up a high security swap meet with a social club on the side. A little liquor, prostitution and maybe some weed. I would take fruit, corn or potatoes in trade for entrance and use them to fuel my stills and wine barrels. Okay, actually I wouldn't. But I bet places like that would pop up all over, especially if we were living WROL.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

seanallen said:


> I Maybe a clean safe room to rent. Shower, hot meal, minor medical treatment... Now what would i charge? Food water and the rest of the basics would already be there. Money? Laughable! Maybe a good lay, if she was decent looking.


this has always been a huuuge mechnism inhuman society.
Any human society after major catastrophes has always turned into this basic barter.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I will be selling food, as always, the nature and extent may change (a lot of jerky) but meat, milk, eggs will always have value. Not really a micro-enterprise though, this is a big operation. Maybe a milk cow or two would qualify (5-10 gallons of milk to sell).

Maybe beekeeping would qualify our bees give us honey, wax, pollen, propolis, all marketable commodities and it can be done on a small scale.

Don't see why we would stop making home-brew mead that has always been an easy sell. 

Having a still going should qualify, produce drink, fuel, antiseptic etc.

Tanning fur and leather could be profitable, leather in the past was used for many more things than it is now, and I love it and fur too.

Herbs, that is the S.O's domain but natural medicine will continue as always.

Ok, will stop now 
What will I take in exchange? 
Primarily Labour, anyone that cannot pay would be offered an exchange of labour or services just like in our history.
Then also goods that I am not producing such as salt, ammo, empty containers such as jars or glass bottles.
Then metal, anyone who doesn't want precious metals will know that they can send them on down to me 
Seriously I have hundreds of tons of food, can't say how much gold or silver will buy you but it will be worth somethings to me. Copper, aluminum and stainless steel will be valuable to me as well. 

Fun thread


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

People would do what they know and do best. This is an obvious one for me, having operated a farm repair shop at home for 10 years before I retired. Exactly how that works will depend on the situation. If grid electric, fuel, and normal supplies are available, things won't change much from the past, but if these are difficult to get or unavailable, I will have to revert to hand powered equipment and older ways. 

That would mean firing up the blacksmith shop, using a generator if fuel is available, and using lots of hand tools. The available materials and usable equipment would dictate the methods of repair work. For example, blacksmiths often used rivets instead of welding parts together. Rivets were a lot easier to make than bolts. 

All it would take to get it going would be a sign and word of mouth, since I am well known in the community. Details of payment would have to be worked out depending on the situation. My customers were primarily farmers, so they have a wide variety of useful trade goods. 

This sort of discussion presupposes an emergency situation that could be almost anything, but would undoubtedly mean that people were in need. some community organization would surely take place to assure that people had their daily needs met. I envision a response similar to what transpired when massive tornadoes recently devastated a nearby town and the surrounding area. Local people used the churches, volunteer fire departments, and local law enforcement to organize the relief efforts. Families and friends aided those in need. By the time the state homeland security folks got here, they weren't needed. It was all under control, so they worked on setting up a financial relief system. 

I could probably do a good business making rocket stoves, if the normal methods of cooking aren't working. If normal supplies aren't coming in, then the local farmers' markets would get expanded very quickly. If the banks and monetary system are interrupted, then I expect that people would soon get creative with trading.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

I live near a large Amish community and am contemplating running security for them.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think you'd have to wait for a year after it hits the fan. That would be enough time for the unprepared to die. Otherwise if you have food and some people can't have it they'd do their best to kill you. Or burn your house down so you don't have food either.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I'd be doing what I do now with a few changes here and there. When my children were young I ran a small farm, similar to what I'm doing now, my only income was from selling one pig a week to the local butcher and a few plants to a local nursery, I did this for seven years. Most of what we needed we grew/made ourselves. No mortgage, no bills, only bought what we could afford. We are very close to being in the same place now, we're spending a bit more money setting up so things are easier as we get older. I've still got pigs and I still run a small plant nursery.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Heirloom seeds, vegetables and booze. No matter how tough times are, people are going to want booze.


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## sundance23 (Mar 27, 2011)

Sewing and leather repair. I own a number of vintage Singer sewing machines of different configurations. They are hand crank and treadle styles. No electricity no problem. I already use them at motorcycle rallies and flea markets.


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## Justaguy987 (Mar 2, 2013)

sundance23 said:


> Sewing and leather repair. I own a number of vintage Singer sewing machines of different configurations. They are hand crank and treadle styles. No electricity no problem. I already use them at motorcycle rallies and flea markets.


I have seen lots of good ideas on this topic, but depending on how bad the s hit the f, this may be the best idea IMO. Keep your skills honed, this is a winner!


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

BillS said:


> I think you'd have to wait for a year after it hits the fan. That would be enough time for the unprepared to die. Otherwise if you have food and some people can't have it they'd do their best to kill you. Or burn your house down so you don't have food either.


Agree. It will be a wild ride that I would rather not be on. I think it is coming. Just when?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Construction, electrical, some mechanics, food, water, soemthin a bit stouter ta drink, soap, all sorts a trade goods. Would just be perty much jack a all trades. As fer payment, they can keep the money, gold an silver. Goods would be what I'd look at. Be it food, tools er what have ya.

Be why I collect the old tools. Someday they just might be needed.

NO business conducted from the home. Would all be done at a safe location.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Having the tools and being good with them before hand would be a huge advantage. The other thing to think of imo is materials though, sewing and leather working for instance, sundance23 is doing it already so I am sure knows how quickly material can disappear. When helping with some big sewing projects I was amazed how much thread is used, big difference from a bit of patching here and there. If it is just a short term situation materials should not be an issue but in a long term scenario high quality materials will be very valuable and hard to come by. A lot of stuff will be reused and patched (wool can be pretty easy to reuse and cotton can be re spun as well) but at some point a bolt of fabric, spool of thread, or hide of leather will start looking like gold imho.
Same with other trades, I agree with OldCootHillbilly about the trades but things will be tougher without some of the modern materials. A lot of stuff like marrets and wire can be salvaged but I would guess that something like electrical tape would be much appreciated. 
And yeah, despite what a lot of people like to imagine (including me some days) internal combustion engines and electricity are not going anywhere long term, there will probably be a lot of people cobbling together electrical systems and motors without a clue who would need help.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

I been lookin fer years tryin ta find a donkey engine. There either absolute junk er crazy expensive. Wouldn't mind a tractor either. Steam rules!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It's funny, I just was arguing with someone who wouldn't believe me that most of our electricity still comes from steam. He had no idea how they actually used the coal to spin those turbines and was telling me how inefficient and outdated steam was. Actually piston steam engines can be very efficient as well.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> and was telling me how inefficient and outdated steam was.


Bull hockey! Feller has no idear how many places he goes what uses steam. See, I be a old boiler man. I love steam!


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I've looked around the farm at what we are using now and try to work out what I'd do if I couldn't get various things anymore. Most I can come up with an alternative, usually involving a lot of extra labour and hard graft. But there are plenty of things I don't want to go without that we just can't make here. 
I'm not just thinking about a really bad SHTF time but also if we just can't afford stuff anymore. 
I have enough fabric stashed away to make a lot of clothes. But it's not an endless supply. Not worth a cracker if I don't have the supply of thread and needles to match it. I think it's the little things that we'll miss, the stuff we haven't given much thought to or really underestimated the amount we'll need.


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## Jerry D Young (Jan 28, 2009)

Here are some examples of Tradesman’s Tools that could be stockpiled and either used and the product/service bartered, or their USE bartered out. One wouldn’t barter away the tools that bring in the food. (Again, I don’t have all the items or skills.)

±500# scale
±100# scale
±10# scale
±16oz scale

Tailor/Seamstress tools
Sewing machine
Serger
Sewing basket (needles, thimbles, thread, measuring tape, seam ripper, scissors, shears, marking chalk, straight edge, pins, neck magnifying glass, etc.)
bolts of cloth, patterns, spare needles, pins, chalk, thread, buttons, zippers, snaps, etc)
Treadle type sewing machine (Janome 712T)
weaving looms
>1,000 watt generator


Food processing tools
Grain grinders, solar dehydrators, butchering tools, manual meat slicer, manual meat grinder, sausage stuffer, stuffing tubes, jerky shooter, meat smoker, water purifier


barbers tools
scissors, combs, hair brushes, dusting brush, broom, dust pan, chair, neck apron, razor, shaving cup, shaving soap, towels

ammunition re-loader’s tools
Dillion progressive tool w/primary caliber dies
RCBS press with common caliber dies
Bullet casting equipment
lead
black powder making tools & screens

laundry tools
Staber washing machine
laundry soap
bleach
clothes lines w/poles, stakes & clothes pins
water heater (kettle w/tripod)
water tank
12v pump & battery
drain line
James washer w/wringer
2+ washtubs
>1,000 watt generator

entertainment tools
band instruments
projection TV
TV projector
Lap-top computer
DVD disk player
VHS tape player
Chairs
Karaoke machine w/cd-g’s
Lighting system
Sound system
>1,500 watt generator
Battery bank, solar panels, and inverter
protective bullet resistant face for TV’s if used
Classic books for storyteller to read

home canning equipment & supplies
firewood cutting tools
knife/edged tool sharpening tools
printer’s/newspaper publisher’s tools
butcher/meat cutter’s tools
meat processors tools (sausage, etc.)
tanner’s tools
milk processors tools (cheese, etc.)
baker’s tools & supplies
bath house/shower room tools
candle maker’s tools & supplies
gardener’s tools
mechanic’s tools
machinist’s tools - Smithy Granite 1340 Industrial Max metalworking all-in-one machine
woodworker’s tools – Smithy Supershop 220 woodworking all-in-one machine
blacksmith’s tools - Oxygen accumulator, acetylene generator
plumber’s tools
lumber making tools - portable sawmill
electrician’s tools
carpenter’s tools
roofer’s tools
stonemason’s tools
primitive building tools
cobbler/shoe maker’s tools
soap maker’s tools
brewer/wine maker’s tools
distillery tools
miller’s tools
spinner & weaver’s tools (looms)
teaching tools and supplies K-12
smelter/foundry/metal worker’s tools
sheep sheering tools
papermaking tools
rope, cordage, and net making tools
millwright’s tools
farm tools (prepare, sow, cultivate, harvest)
biodiesel equipment & supplies
wood gas generator equipment & supplies
charcoal making tools
black powder making tools
reference/do-it-yourself library (books/magazines/CD-ROMs/DVDs)(never let the media out of your control)


Just my opinion. (Hands off the library idea. I'll be doing that one. LOL)


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## rntwinsmom (Mar 19, 2013)

I would be doing medicine. I've been a nurse of conventional medicine for 8 years and am now learning various other natural medicine, like homeopathy where I grow my own meds, reflexology, kinesiology, and the like. I'd be Leary of food or seeds until 1-2 years after, don't want people following me home to kill us and take our supplies! Maybe I'll barter for some security? As for payment or trade, dunno, depends on what I need or what they have that could be useful.


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## lanahi (Jun 22, 2009)

I knew a man who could make awesome boots and even tan his own leather for them. They looked as good as store-bought and were well fitted, since they were tailer made. He'd be able to find plenty of business after SHTF.

Someone who knew blacksmithing could make tools for himself and others if he had the set-up to do it with.

I could trade prepared wild edible plant foods for something I needed or wanted. Also medicinal herbs.

I doubt if many here would have enough food to trade unless you are raising it, and then people would know you have extra food. This kind of thing probably wouldn't be too wise until it has all settled down many months into the situation.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

I must admit it would pay, if not be exactly a moral choice, to ply peoples weaknesses. This includes growing sorghum for sweet syrup, raising bees for honey, producing candies of your sweet components, fruits and herbs, raising both potatoes and corn for distillation of alcohols, and raising tobacco for smoking. Added to the above, though an oddity itself, I would raise a caffeine producing holly which thrives in the continental US as coffee does not. It with my own chicory may not produce a tasty drink for all, but it would supply the necessary caffeine fix many people can't seem to live without. 

As a side effect, the distilled liquors could be used for disinfectant, the fruits and honey (mead) could also produce wines. The bees produce wax for candles. The fruits also produce vinegars to pickle food for storage.

People would be best served to make as many goods from their assets as possible. Without a doubt, there will be products which others have failed to think of, or products which they do not have the knowledge to produce.

Once the need is recognized, the more commonly known goods can be set aside for the goods produced by specialized knowledge. Stay diversified, but fill a need no one else does.


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## offgridcooker (Mar 5, 2012)

There has been some good comments. I made a few notes and added some items to some list.
My comment is that even though we have a totally different culture than people in developing countries or 3 rd world regions, we could still look at how they do micro enterprise. We may be a broke as they are one day. They are doing a lot of street vending and one big street vending business is food vending.
By cooking at a larger scale, you could possibly sell cooked food for less than for what one could cook on their own. It depends on fuel cost and quantity discounts.
A nice wedge of hot corn bread and a plate of well seasoned pinto beans would sell well.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

*My husband is a jack of all trades, from construction to security, in addition, his family has always had a sawmill. Only problem would be that he is getting older, so he would have to have son and snl to help.
I guess I will have to dust off the old kick-wheel and get back into pottery as my family has been since the 1800's. I could probably sell produce, seed and some food. I have a treadle sewing machine and have cloth, patterns and thread in the attic. Daycare maybe? Something to think about. Good question to get us thinking.*


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

I've been looking at a cooper still.Liquor always sells/trades/barter.I can cook and bake if I have the goodies I need... and if I stick a stick in the ground it grows(HMMM wondering if pot will be legal by then for medical purpose????)Got a pond, how about a pay lake???


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

gabbyj310 said:


> I've been looking at a cooper still.Liquor always sells/trades/barter.I can cook and bake if I have the goodies I need... and if I stick a stick in the ground it grows(HMMM wondering if pot will be legal by then for medical purpose????)Got a pond, how about a pay lake???


A still would be a good purchase. If anyone asks questions, you're distilling USP grade deionized water.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

CH that sounds good to me!It could go with my fish and brownies


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## JSank80 (Apr 30, 2013)

Most of my work involves teaching 3rd world types basic medical care; i.e. trauma, sanitation..., I would offer to teach such skills, and provide advanced medical procedures as needed. My wife is very skilled herbalist, which will be the vast majority of available medicine once pharmaceuticals run out. There is always a need in every community for medical help.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

JSank80 said:


> Most of my work involves teaching 3rd world types basic medical care; i.e. trauma, sanitation..., I would offer to teach such skills, and provide advanced medical procedures as needed. My wife is very skilled herbalist, which will be the vast majority of available medicine once pharmaceuticals run out. There is always a need in every community for medical help.


She should think of taking on an apprentice or 4. 
Healing with natural meds is going to be essential when:
a) no one can afford meds due to the economy
b) pharmaceutical companies no longer have infrastructure to support them
c) modern medical training can't change to educate in the "now" rather than the "then"

People will still get sick, injured, have chronic illnesses, and have difficult pregnancies.

I would GREATLY appreciate having one of her students in my village.


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

I love this thread. I want to make a laboratory and learn how to make insulin- read about the process and its pretty intense.. And refine other medicines. I really want to learn how to make it and eventually find a real lab if any are available.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Aliaysonfire said:


> I love this thread. I want to make a laboratory and learn how to make insulin- read about the process and its pretty intense.. And refine other medicines. I really want to learn how to make it and eventually find a real lab if any are available.


You can do a lot of this in undergrad chemistry and just not know it. Sulfa is a six step synthesis which is a common 200 or 300 level lab. Purification techniques and yield calculations are a regular part of organic and analytical. Medical micro will teach you all about isolation and identification of pathogenic bacteria and fungus. As a Graduate student you get to put it all together and have millions of dollars of equipment and thousands of dollars of reagents at your disposal. I dream of getting back into research someday just to be around these wonderful toys again. Science is awesome.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

I know liquor would be KING as a barter item, but I've no copper tubing or skills. Each year I plant tobacco- including in vacant fields not far not far from here. The average Joe would not even recognize it for what it is - hidden in plain sight. I'm never without a few pounds of tobacco,assuming that it would be useful post SHTF...


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## OHprepper (Feb 21, 2012)

tobacco will always be useful.


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## offgridcooker (Mar 5, 2012)

Aliaysonfire said:


> I love this thread. I want to make a laboratory and learn how to make insulin- read about the process and its pretty intense.. And refine other medicines. I really want to learn how to make it and eventually find a real lab if any are available.


Aliasonfire, That is a good idea! 
I was wandering how difficult it would be to make penicillin.

drfacefixer said "sulfa" drugs? were relatively simple. 
I would like to know more about homemade medicines.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

offgridcooker said:


> Aliasonfire, That is a good idea!
> I was wandering how difficult it would be to make penicillin.
> 
> drfacefixer said "sulfa" drugs? were relatively simple.
> I would like to know more about homemade medicines.


Pen is extremely difficult . It took Dr. Sheehan of MIT 9 years to develop the synthesis of it. growing it took months to achieve enough for a few doses.http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1992/sheehan-0401.html it's now made by engineered yeasts and requires major machinery, is very technique sensitive and easily contaminated.


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

drfacefixer said:


> You can do a lot of this in undergrad chemistry and just not know it. Sulfa is a six step synthesis which is a common 200 or 300 level lab. Purification techniques and yield calculations are a regular part of organic and analytical. Medical micro will teach you all about isolation and identification of pathogenic bacteria and fungus. As a Graduate student you get to put it all together and have millions of dollars of equipment and thousands of dollars of reagents at your disposal. I dream of getting back into research someday just to be around these wonderful toys again. Science is awesome.


I loved med micro. It would have made me switch majors it was so much fun, but upon learning I had to obtains a masters before any gainful employment, I decided RN was the best route. I'll be taking all inorganic/org chems just because, now I'm finished w RN.  (graduation is tomorrow!!) (wish I had chosen medical school when it was feasible to go. Now my plan is to tap out either NP or DnP.) (I like parenthesis.)
All of med micro was a friggen blast even though I had to work my ass off for a B in that class. I really enjoyed technical work and imagining not having to deal with patients. Each one has its merits. 
I don't know if I'll be able to do much science stuff at the graduate level for quite some time. But you're right, it's so much fun. Differential selection and the different agar plates and the neat reagents were so much fun. Wish i could go back just to "play" and Pursue my own path.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Aliaysonfire said:


> I loved med micro. It would have made me switch majors it was so much fun, but upon learning I had to obtains a masters before any gainful employment, I decided RN was the best route. I'll be taking all inorganic/org chems just because, now I'm finished w RN.  (graduation is tomorrow!!) (wish I had chosen medical school when it was feasible to go. Now my plan is to tap out either NP or DnP.) (I like parenthesis.)
> All of med micro was a friggen blast even though I had to work my ass off for a B in that class. I really enjoyed technical work and imagining not having to deal with patients. Each one has its merits.
> I don't know if I'll be able to do much science stuff at the graduate level for quite some time. But you're right, it's so much fun. Differential selection and the different agar plates and the neat reagents were so much fun. Wish i could go back just to "play" and Pursue my own path.


If you can work it out to go on with further education, do.. Don't let debt scare you, but make smart choices with program selection and your time. I ended with $80k in debt, but now I could pay that off without missing the cash. Actually the tax deduction almost makes it seem like its paying itself off.. Seems like I would want to pay off that debt just to be debt free, but at 1.2% its a poor investment to quickly pay that off instead of putting that money elsewhere. Educational loans are some of the cheapest you will ever get. RNs are needed everywhere and NPs are soon to be the new GP. CRNAs make a wonderfully awesome living as well. Congratulations on graduation.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Hopefully, I'll be doing organic chemistry I next spring. It'll pretty much teach molecule shapes, functions, synthesis and purification methods.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

dawnwinds58 said:


> I must admit it would pay, if not be exactly a moral choice, to ply peoples weaknesses. This includes growing sorghum for sweet syrup, raising bees for honey, producing candies of your sweet components, fruits and herbs, raising both potatoes and corn for distillation of alcohols, and raising tobacco for smoking. Added to the above, though an oddity itself, I would raise a caffeine producing holly which thrives in the continental US as coffee does not. It with my own chicory may not produce a tasty drink for all, but it would supply the necessary caffeine fix many people can't seem to live without.
> 
> As a side effect, the distilled liquors could be used for disinfectant, the fruits and honey (mead) could also produce wines. The bees produce wax for candles. The fruits also produce vinegars to pickle food for storage.
> 
> ...


Ah, the Black Drink made from the Yaupon holly. We have those here.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

An old insecticide from 50 years ago was called "Black Leaf 40", a nicotine compound, and deadly poisonous for bugs and probably for people, too. Without knowing exactly what was in it, I have used a decoction (water extract) of dark tobacco leaves (or, old cigarette butts) and sprayed flowers with it. Bugs are GONE. Might be an enterprise in that? Might be dangerous as all get-out, too, for all I know. I wouldn't spray any food with it.

LOTS OF CAVEATS APPLY HERE! DON'T BREW POISONS, ESPECIALLY IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

Standard disclaimer applies here:
I don't know anything so my posts here are for entertainment only. Don't do anything I say or you may risk life and limb for yourself and others. Do your own research and accept responsibility for your actions.


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

drfacefixer said:


> RNs are needed everywhere and NPs are soon to be the new GP. CRNAs make a wonderfully awesome living as well. Congratulations on graduation.


Thank you. I am wondering if NP is a good choice still. I'd like to learn much more toward the surgery side of things, like suturing and all. I feel good as one could be about the anesthesia side from my paramedic background... Is there a way for an NP to be I guess a nurse first assist? I would like to be a little more skilled than what I've learned/practiced on chicken skin on YouTube about sutures.. I'd Like to know what to do with repairing circulation from cut vessels or at least how to assess a gsw from a medical model vs. nursing.. I'm not sure what education would suit those needs best. I know I know med school is where I need to be- I just need to hear it again I guess and not try and short cut through NP. (There is no way a NP can be a doc. simple as that! I do not agree with all the blurring of the lines that has come with our nations solution to the health care problem- I just want to be the best medically trained person in my lil unit since we don't have a doctor.)


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

The best advice that I can give you is put yourself first and do what you want for you, not your group. Sounds mean, right? But with any of those roads, you are going to be putting in the many more years of schooling, you are going to have to finance it, and you are going to be the one wondering "do I really want to do this". At the end of it, you will probably have the higher income too - When it comes to a prepper group realize that any most medical skills above nursing are going to be a one way street. You can provide for others, but unless there is an equally trained person - no one can do what you can do for you. Soldiers, especially special forces have been trained in PHTLS and nowadays likley had to see the action, but the goal is alway transport and evac, not repair right there. 
small wound closure is going to be available moreso in NP or ER training. Not too many others than surgery specialties will get into it. If its not something that can be closed in an ER or urgent care, then a specialist would get called. In med school, unless you choose the surgical route - its only going to be more chicken skin or pigs feet until residency. Most med students get to see the inside of an OR, but usually don't do much other than get pimped to see if they deserve to be there. Since the medical schools usually have residencies, the med student 3-4 year is shadowing the residents to learn and then being accessed by the staff. 

PAs have a surgical fellowship available to them where all they do is train to be first surgical assists in certain surgeries. I know a few plastics guys that use them. I'm not sure if there is a similar thing in the nursing route. It might be the one niche that PAs have where as NP and CRNAs seem to dominate the other areas. 

If you do ICU nursing in a major trauma center, you'll see all you'll want to about gunshots. Ben Taub probably has them all the time. The ICU nursing role is pretty important since it comes down to either operate when unstable or serial exams if stable. Repairing vessels are going to be based on collateral circulation. The vessels would be examined to identify and stop the bleeding, a CT angiogram would likley be done and if microvascular repair it needed, it's pretty tedious and uses a lot of specialized equipment. This isn't something that could be done outside of an OR. Without an OR, you would simply clamp, tie off and hope. 

So that brings up another great question - lets say you finish your ideal training. How do you balance your skills and costs to the group. You might first start off with small wounds and pack supplies that expensive but not outside the reach of others - sutures, instruments. But to utilize your training you want to provide anesthesia or sedation. Your likley not going to risk your license to provide restricted and accountable medications for others to hold. Do you shoulder those costs? A decent monitor is $3 - 10 K. IV meds have to be turned over every year or so. This isn't too much of an issue if its all stuff you are using in your private office or clinic daily. Now what if you planned for something a little larger, like an emergency appy or amputation? Are you going to do a run through on a live animal to see how well those in your group can help? If you do, then its all hush hush. It would be an easy way for anyone of those people to blackmail you for animal cruelty and threaten the loss of your license. (there is ALOT of regulation that has to be followed on live animal labs). 

There is a million more questions like this to ponder. Most of the answers lead back to you having to do what you have to to protect your license since its your livelihood - which means that you are unequally accountable for everything you bring to the table. Im not saying that you are better or necessarily worth more as an asset, but you're unique enough that few can do what you do and for your protection you would likley have to contribute much more financially to the group than others may.


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

drfacefixer said:


> The best advice that I can give you is put yourself first and do what you want for you, not your group. Sounds mean, right? But with any of those roads, you are going to be putting in the many more years of schooling, you are going to have to finance it, and you are going to be the one wondering "do I really want to do this". At the end of it, you will probably have the higher income too - When it comes to a prepper group realize that any most medical skills above nursing are going to be a one way street. You can provide for others, but unless there is an equally trained person - no one can do what you can do for you. Soldiers, especially special forces have been trained in PHTLS and nowadays likley had to see the action, but the goal is alway transport and evac, not repair right there.
> small wound closure is going to be available moreso in NP or ER training. Not too many others than surgery specialties will get into it. If its not something that can be closed in an ER or urgent care, then a specialist would get called. In med school, unless you choose the surgical route - its only going to be more chicken skin or pigs feet until residency. Most med students get to see the inside of an OR, but usually don't do much other than get pimped to see if they deserve to be there. Since the medical schools usually have residencies, the med student 3-4 year is shadowing the residents to learn and then being accessed by the staff.
> 
> PAs have a surgical fellowship available to them where all they do is train to be first surgical assists in certain surgeries. I know a few plastics guys that use them. I'm not sure if there is a similar thing in the nursing route. It might be the one niche that PAs have where as NP and CRNAs seem to dominate the other areas.
> ...


I have to remind myself to re read this thread from time to time. Thank you. It's great to hear a provider's take on a career path- I just regret I didn't figure out any of this (I should have pursued medical school rather than being a fire fighter...) sooner.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Even thought it's not a micro industry (or is it), almost every idea in this thread would be impossible without the farmer/rancher and miners. These are the primary industries of the preindustrial age and will me again after TEOTWAWKI. If you wanted to be rich after SHTF then be in one of these.


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## Plainsman (Nov 29, 2013)

Scavenging materials from abandoned infrastructure will probably be a common enough occupation. Managing hazardous leftovers from the same infrastructure would be a valuable skill set. Cultivating and preparing medicinal herbs is another one.


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## Quills (Jun 14, 2011)

I can make wine out of just about anything, and can also turn out a pretty decent "beer" from things which grow right here on my property. Brewing of any kind is a skill that will be in short supply, but high demand, in a post-SHTF world.

Being able to brew means you have limited amounts of a commodity on hand, but the ability to make more, and can replenish your supply if you get hit. It would be a setback, but not the end. The knowledge is valued, and I would hopefully be able to turn it to profit if I needed to.


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