# Barter or not to barter



## ARDon (Jun 28, 2014)

I'm curious on how you feel about bartering during post SHTF times, if its a good idea or not so good. 

to be quite honest "I" plan not to barter for many reasons. Bartering has its good points and we preppers will see a huge resurgence of bartering in post SHTF times. But what worries me & has convinced me is this will only go so far until people get desperate and then the simple act of bartering could & will turn deadly. This is one of many reasons why I am not a fan of bartering. The possible risks for the fact people wont be in their normal state of mind when post SHTF, to be quite honest another factor why I am not a fan of bartering is what I stock up is for me & the wife only and is what we need in our everyday pre SHTF time to post SHTF. I've been prepping for over 20 yrs and I have looked far into the future of the items "we" the wife & I need to live currently & survive in post SHTF times. Our prepping is totally geared and planned for us only. Like I said I am NOT against bartering I do have a few items to barter with "if" I feel the need & trust. Another factor is after 20yrs of preparedness I have accumulated what the wife & I need for us, I like my preps to be unknown and thats how I want them to be is "unknown". Preparedness is taking every safeguard of surivival, offence & defense.

Another of why I feel uneased about bartering reality is, none of us do not know how the situation will turn out in cases whether off your land or in some public area, I raise cattle and have animals, all you can do is hope for the best that it doesnt come to a shoot out to protect what is yours. That is all you have. Your neighbors know you have cattle, the zombies(refugies) will know you have cattle or animals. Their is NO safe place for farm animals. Many will die trying to take what is not rightfully theirs to take and many will die protecting what is rightfully theres to begin with & loosing their animals at the end. This isnt going to be like what you see on TV?, Walking Dead or Fallen Skies. I feel at time things & times will be very ugly, people will loot your stuff and will try every means possible to take it, some will act as if they want to barter and in reality ambush you for your items, force you to take them to your BOL... anything goes no rules, no regulation or calling time-out for interference, or simply saying you cant do that? They will use any & every means to get your stuff, bare none. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. People will do crazy stuff in post SHTF times w/o a lick of remorse or repentance. We see this type of behavor in pre SHTF at groceries stores, car dealers, hardware stores, people flipping out over the stupidist silly stuff, now magnify that attitude when the SHTF for real. I am NOT trying to discourage anyone from bartering , its how "I & the wife" feel.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I wouldn't trust anyone after it hits the fan. Not unless I knew them before. Maybe not even then.

You could find someone that appears to be a friend. But his food is running out. He doesn't want to kill you but he doesn't want to starve either.

Or maybe the guy has been eyeing your wife or daughter. And decides to kill you so he can have your stuff and your family too.


----------



## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

I'm not alone in the "hidden backup man with scope and long gun" plan I hope?


----------



## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

For me, in a short term situation, like a storm or such, I would be more than willing to share what I had with the neighbors. After the initial situation is over and things try to get back to normal, barter will be a big part. I'll need help repairing my roof, someone will need help repairing their home, car, barn... There is a couple 10 or 11 lots down from me (rural lots, 1.5 to 5 acres) who have a big HAM tower in their yard, I see his car with his call letters on it every so often. We all have pretty good driveways, only a few homes right on the dirt road. I bet if I were to pull part way up, honk the horn and get out with a case of mixed goods or some jugs of water, I'd be able to start a conversation with them. Sure, I might get the Git on outa here, but it is worth a try, asking if they had any word from the outside world.

Long term EOTWASWKI situation would be the same, only a bit longer. The folks you are worried about, most will die off pretty quickly. They raid the Box stores for electronic goods and sneakers. They sit at home or go to the Superdome waiting for rescue. The ones to worry about will band together in large groups to make raids. They will not be able to stay in any one location long as there are too many to support. If you are rural enough, homes are too spread out to make any kind of raiding sense. They need highly populated areas. If they send groups of 5, 10 or 20 raiders rural, there are homes every so often, homes, not stores. What are they going to get? Enough to keep themselves fed and fueled to get to the next home? These groups will be culled a few at a time by residents of those homes and dwindle out.

Say ten of them try to raid my home, I get one before they get me, that leaves nine left for the next home. By this time the neighbors have heard the volley of shots and are not sitting in a closet, hoping 911 is on their way. At least not where I live. They are armed and in their yards, listening and looking. That groups of raiders will disappear after a few homes at best.

How to know who to trust for barter? We will be the ones left!


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We already barter, A LOT. It's a big part of our life. If there was a major world changing SHTF we'd hunker down for as long as possible, what happens after depends entirely on what the SHTF was. 

Our biggest barter item is labour, we provide food and a bed and they work 4 hours a day minimum. Our next helpers will be here for 3 months and will be doing 38 hour weeks for food and shelter, they are a couple that has been here before (2 years ago) and have come to Australia from Europe to spend this time with us. We also barter farm produce and lessons in various things but it's getting harder to find people who are interested. 

I don't store barter items, everything I have is for our use. Barter if it ever happens after the SHTF will be with things we can make from easily sourced materials or skills/services.


----------



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

If I've been reduced to barter for goods/services then I'd say it's safe to say SHTF, I live in what I consider to be a small town, and it has 125k screaming mouths to feed.

that doesnt mean I wouldnt barter. My customer list would be as small and as discreet as I could make it, the more I can do to mitigate and eliminate risk, the better. My preps are about self sustainment, and when possible creating surplus that would be readily consumable as barter. 

For instance, I'm not fortunate enough to be able to buy a McMansion in Commiefornia, so having a rabbitry may mean the difference between not paying my rent in cash and my landlord finding someone else in the dozen+ homes she controls to toss out instead of me if she finds someone with a paying job to rent to.

That means keeping my rabbitry healthy and fed, which means I buy bags of food today while it's cheap. Never underestimate preps for pets and livestock, if you are going to rely on them make sure you have the buffer needed to keep yourself afloat. 

it's a lot better to be the guy with some junk silver and a rabbitry than it is to be the guy who doesnt have it, but I'm at the same mercy as they are that some other guy down the street or the other side of the hill doesnt start a fire and burn the entire place down


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I would hope that I have prepped well enough that it wasn't a big issue.


----------



## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Bartering is a skill. If you don't barter now you might want to give it a try. Like any skill it has a bit of a learning curve.


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Caribou said:


> Bartering is a skill. If you don't barter now you might want to give it a try. Like any skill it has a bit of a learning curve.


Great comment, bartering is very different to handing over cash.


----------



## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

This question has been asked multiple times... Basically you will find 3 answers - 1) nope, gonna be a hermit for life once SHTF. 2) yes, bartering will be a way of life once SHTF - never go back to currency and then 3) for a short period - it will be truly unsafe to do anything but hunker down. After the initial dust clears - bartering will take off - however, after a short time a new currency will be formed.

I am a believer in item 3... Look at human nature and history, when Rome collapsed a new empire was built, a new currency excepted. We live in a worldwide economic environment - even if the USD collapses, other countries currencies will remain. On top of that as I have stated before, barter for your needle item may be more troublesome without some currency form established quickly. Think about it this way - you have rabbit meat - you need shoes. I have shoes, but need a dozen quart size mason jars. Joe has the mason jars but needs t.p. While Jill has t.p. but needs her yard plowed for spring planting.... Now, figure out how we all get what we want or need? Compared to, I have a spare set of shoes, I want 1/2 ounce of silver, you are charging 1/4 ounce of silver, Joe is willing to sell me the jars for 1/4, Jill wants a 1/2 ounce of silver or 3 hrs of labor... Much easier. 


This space for rent.


----------



## gardenshepherd (Dec 11, 2013)

We barter all the time, even our kids have learnt how, they now broker deals, its good for them to learn about how things are valued. They also have a new group of like minded friends, that would be handy in SHITF situation. I'm getting sheep, a new dairy, chicken run, rabbit cages, all done by our daughter, bartering with her friends. Oh don't forget her farrier friend that does her horse for free, we just take him out fishing on the boat.


----------



## ARDon (Jun 28, 2014)

I just don't feel comfortable about it. I would not trust anyone during post-SHTF times, people loose all common sense & compassion. I seen this in the 2004 Arkansas Ice Storm. I went to buy a few items as of spark plugs (for the generator)and some salt pellets, and seen people whom I knew for years become animalistic towards others all because they couldn't get propane, kerosene, white gas, lamp oil, and other small items. Even though I was prepared I could believe my eyes to see good folks turn against each other like animals. This was just a ice storm, what about a real post SHTF deal. Bartering is too risky and has too much of uncertainty for me & the wife. I look at how we prep, and what we have accumulated over 20 yrs of prepping, medical, water, food, ammo, clothing, equipment, and all of this does get rotation. I still see if I offer food, liquor, medicine or medical supplies, clothing, fuel (gas, propane, lamp oil) ammo, or what hand tools I've gathered, ammo could be used against me. I just can see it after the small experience I had in 2004. I would know for sure it would be magnified by 1000 times from what I saw in 2004.


----------



## tenntrucker (Jan 8, 2014)

squerly said:


> I'm not alone in the "hidden backup man with scope and long gun" plan I hope?


Its the reason I traded for my PSL. But as far as bartering goes, thats all I do now for a living is buy, sell and trade.......and am loving it.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Bartering? Well it all depends.

Do you have something I need? What would you be willing to accept for it? Maybe we can work out a trade?

Do I have something that you need? If you know I do then my OPSEC ain't worth a plum nickel.


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Is bartering where you dry-gulch the guy and take his stuff? If so I could certainly see that being very popular in a lawless situation.
I am in agreement with ARDon. I suppose I might barter at some point way down the road if the right situation presented itself. If things calmed down I could see flea market type things being popular where trading is done.


----------



## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I don't really have plans to barter or not barter. To me, there are far too many variables to make that decision now. We don't store stuff we don't use & we try to make sure we're not in a position to need something we don't have.


----------



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> I don't really have plans to barter or not barter. To me, there are far too many variables to make that decision now. We don't store stuff we don't use & we try to make sure we're not in a position to need something we don't have.


I'm kinda there too, except I dont drink either coffee or hard alcohol and I have a couple bottles of whiskey and several cans of coffee. I'll bet the brand won't matter! 

it doesnt take much room and it was cheap enough to pick up just in case...


----------



## fteter (May 23, 2014)

I have to admit that I don't really believe in a SHTF event. I'm looking for for sporadic disruptions that contribute to a gradual deterioration. So that's the context for my thinking on bartering.

Yup, I plan to barter as things continue to spiral down. I've set aside extra flour, sugar, salt and beans for bartering when I REALLY need something. Got extra .22LR ammo set aside as well, as it has potential for becoming a standard by which the value of other items are measured. I expect we'll eventually see local barter markets start to pop up...much like local farmers markets are now.

But, for long-term consistent bartering, I'm thinking (and I'm open to hearing other points of view, 'cause I'm still thinking my way through this point) that you have to have a renewable source. Eggs from your own chickens, cheese and chickens from your own cows or goats, fruit from your own trees, veggies from your own crops. Services could work too - healers, tailors and shoe cobblers may become the most popular folks around.

While I work for self-reliance, I'm planning on barter to make life better.


----------



## tenntrucker (Jan 8, 2014)

A main part of my long term plan is a still. With some modification my old tractor can run on the ethanol. Can distill water if needed, and in a shtf scenario, moonshine laws will be nonexistent so I'll have a barter item.


----------



## fteter (May 23, 2014)

tenntrucker said:


> A main part of my long term plan is a still. With some modification my old tractor can run on the ethanol. Can distill water if needed, and in a shtf scenario, moonshine laws will be nonexistent so I'll have a barter item.


And if that old tractor can run on the ethanol, you've got the opportunity to barter your services for what you need. Nice...very nice.


----------



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

tenntrucker said:


> A main part of my long term plan is a still. With some modification my old tractor can run on the ethanol. Can distill water if needed, and in a shtf scenario, moonshine laws will be nonexistent so I'll have a barter item.


tenntrucker, you might want to take a look at this thread. http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f21/if-you-like-drink-drive-you-25097/#post348944

there's a discussion about distilling experimental fuels and biobutanol


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Bartering is gooooooood*

Bartering was a way of life for us in communist Cuba, our family had land and even with all the confiscation done by Castro we manage to make a go out of it, our cured meats, vegetables, tobacco, coffee were traded for auto parts, tools, gasoline, even hidden double edge blades in postcards send by family members from Miami brought in great bartering value from people we knew in the military; can goods ,boots, army machetes, tires,sugar,flour; the point here is that money was no problem my father always hid money and silver but it had no value, the stores were empty so everybody was into the bartering, he who had something traded it for something he needed, to include my father's knowledge of mechanics he traded his service with me in tow for whatever we needed, knowledge was a key item. He who prepares will always be ahead of those who don`t, you and family will always come first and as humans we have to help each other even the rotten neighbor down the street ,you don`t have to surrender your supplies to anybody but a helping hand do open lots of doors in bad situations you also don`t have to tell anybody about your preps but a week or two without power had the neighbors wondering how could I be baking bread after the storm of 92 here in Miami, or why I had my coolers full of ice ,so I help them and show them how ,and made friends to barter for life which happens to be the key in survival.


----------



## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

I can't see how one would escape bartering in post-SHTF times. 
Depending one how we define 'barter' it happens now. The internet used to post the replies on this thread were bartered many times. Stopping at the gas station for a candy bar is essentially bartering. Apply life as each of us imagine it to be after SHTF barter will be a huge part of daily life.

Bartering in times after SHTF doesn't need to be any different than bartering right now. If I see someone trying to trade something off that I may want I see what I'd be willing to trade for in my personal collection. No way would I go up to the guy with a spreadsheet displaying my goods. Simply say something like, 'I have this one item to trade for your item, if interested then let's make it happen'. I can see any reason for this to be any different come SHTF times. If anything, be that guy that has nothing but can get you whatever you want. Now they think you have nothing when possibly you have it all. Instantly you become the guy that knows where everything is on both sides. Of course this only makes sense in my SHTF times and would make no sense in your perception of SHTF times.

For me it is difficult to imagine a time when barter (in the essence of this thread) becomes such an integral part of our daily lives. My line of thinking -when dealing with what is happening now in the world and prepping- bridges a few different ideologies and this particular thread follows the conspiracy guys. This is more of a 'planned' event. The powers that be expect this to happen and have already set up camps/temp. housing/relocation areas (whatever the flavor of the week is) for those that decided to not prepare. "Come stay with us, your Govt., where we can feed, clothe, protect, and run your life. This is where most will end up. I swear Austin is a flagship for these types of housings. They are constantly advertised on urban radio stations (yes I listen to R&B). It is made out to be a weekend of fun. Free food, music, SWAG, and an occasional local celebrity to meet and greet. It's not a bad thing, these communities will be used when people have faced tough times. 
Almost went off on a rant there, but those commercials are pretty scary to me with how they sell it to the sheeple. 
Back on topic. If, and that is a big IF, we ever get to the point of bartering at such levels then it should really be looked at as something completely viable and realistic. Just make sure you play the game better than the guy in front of you.


----------



## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Just had a great idea . . .

Let's do a barter contest :groupwave:
Each individual to enter must start out with something that has a value of less than or equal to $5. After two weeks you post your barters and your final barter and what it is worth. If it can be bartered then it is allowed. If bartering labor then the standard $65 per hour is figured - or whatever hourly rate is decided upon.

What do we think? 
Rules and all that can be laid out if this goes any further than my post.


----------



## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

After SHTF, having people come to my place for bartering is a scary thought. If they don't like the deal, or don't have something to trade, they will just take it.

I buy some things to save for bartering. Anytime there is a fishing pole for $5, any time there is a deal on meat grinders, and any time I see a deal on shoes, I buy them and save them back for bartering later. There are other things that I get extras of just because I think others will want them for a barter. But I always imagine a flea market/ farmers market type scenario, where when I need something, I take a few items along and see if I can trade for it.


----------



## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

tenntrucker said:


> A main part of my long term plan is a still. With some modification my old tractor can run on the ethanol. Can distill water if needed, and in a shtf scenario, moonshine laws will be nonexistent so I'll have a barter item.


It is going to take more than a pot still for fuel, you will need a column still. For say a 20 gallon pot still, you might be able to use heads and up to the first pint for fuel, but your vehicle will stutter and shake unless mixed with gasoline. It will dry the heck out of a wet carburetor and give you a shot and flame to start the engine, but will not keep it running. The proof is just not high enough from a regular still and drops off fast. A pot still will distill water just fine.

If you have a column still for fuel, it will not make sipping liquor. There is no flavor, it is all alcohol.

If you are looking for something to run your tractor, go diesel. If you are looking to barter, start now with a 5 or 10 gallon copper pot. Learn how to ferment and make drinking whiskey, not selling whiskey. There is a HUGE difference and only time and experience will teach you how to do it.


----------



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

jeff47041 said:


> After SHTF, having people come to my place for bartering is a scary thought. If they don't like the deal, or don't have something to trade, they will just take it.
> 
> I buy some things to save for bartering. Anytime there is a fishing pole for $5, any time there is a deal on meat grinders, and any time I see a deal on shoes, I buy them and save them back for bartering later. There are other things that I get extras of just because I think others will want them for a barter. But I always imagine a flea market/ farmers market type scenario, where when I need something, I take a few items along and see if I can trade for it.


I like that idea of buying common things for barter when they are just crazy cheap. What means nothing now may be exactly what someone else is willing to work all day for in bad times (a fishing pole with a tiny bit of tackle). That's not exploiting them, they are making a decision what their labor or the items they may trade for it are worth.

I agree, I also do NOT want people coming to my house to barter or trade, at the same time I can see potential pitfalls in the farmers market / flea market concept. One of the fiction novels I read had a plot line that revolved around the locals not following the .gov recommendations to relocate to FEMA camps like good little slaves. The .gov had invited foreign troops in to take control of these areas that were determined to be either in a state of insurrection or at least some degree of failure to comply... so in the book the general area of the swap meet is a school or something, seems perfect, they even provide security so people can leave their stuff setup on the table overnight from Sat to Sun without having to lug it all the way home and back again... great right? Well, the fence that made the school yard safe as a school, and made the school yard safe as a swap meet, made a nifty little trap when the foreign troops wanted to scoop up all the little non compliant americans. Things went exponentially wrong from there.

Is the .gov going to invite foreign "peace keeper" troops onto US soil? I dunno, people say Rex84 is exactly in preparation for that. As is Directive 51. I'd like to say it's absurd on the face value to even discuss it, but we find that the latest (D) candidates and (R) establishment candidates are by no means safe either! are running on being "Globalist" in nature. Uhm... These States United, are NOT supposed to be "globalized" in any sense of the word.

back to bartering...

Many things about my day job are about risk, mitigation and avoidance. If there's been a SHTF scenario that suddenly makes drastic changes to the US, or if we do the frog soup thing and continue cooking ourselves in ever hotter water as we forget how things should be, and then all of a sudden we find out we're now in a WROL sans the "event"... I don't want to be driving much less walking or bicycling to some neighborhood swap meet. That kind of exposure makes my skin crawl.

I'm in the process of getting rid of a lot of excess stuff, what I should consider is getting some good barter stuff and keep some totes for just that.


----------



## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

jeff47041 said:


> After SHTF, having people come to my place for bartering is a scary thought. If they don't like the deal, or don't have something to trade, they will just take it.
> 
> I buy some things to save for bartering. Anytime there is a fishing pole for $5, any time there is a deal on meat grinders, and any time I see a deal on shoes, I buy them and save them back for bartering later. There are other things that I get extras of just because I think others will want them for a barter. But I always imagine a flea market/ farmers market type scenario, where when I need something, I take a few items along and see if I can trade for it.


I have NEVER smoked a single cigarette or had a single sip of any type of alcohol in my entire life (cross my heart hope to die stick a needle in my eye)
BUT...
I have a plethora of cigs vacuum sealed and placed in freezer for bartering purposes. One shelf in my storage area is nothing but liquor. All types of liquor, from the good top shelf stuff to the cheap bulk stuff that sits at the end of the aisle. Party is over, sure I'll take that bottle if you want.
Hell for that matter I actually have other stuff people 'think they need'. Calm down they were all acquired legally from a doctor with a prescription.

I do love the idea of getting extra shoes. Not once did that ever cross my mind. Thank you for throwing that out there. **Wonder if there is already a thread going here that addresses "out-of-the-box barter ideas"**


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I've thought about buying items just to put aside for barter but decided against it. Mostly because my income is tiny and although I have a BIG stockpile it's all stuff I WILL use reguardless of what happens down the track, I simply don't have spare $$$$. I have no doubt at all that I can make/grow items to barter if the need arises. We have so much of what we need here that I would only be looking for stuff I had no idea I'd need or luxury items. Things would have to pretty settled and something that looks like civilisation would have to be happening out there before I stuck my head out anyway.


----------



## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

doubleTHICK said:


> I have NEVER smoked a single cigarette or had a single sip of any type of alcohol in my entire life (cross my heart hope to die stick a needle in my eye)
> BUT...
> I have a plethora of cigs vacuum sealed and placed in freezer for bartering purposes. One shelf in my storage area is nothing but liquor. All types of liquor, from the good top shelf stuff to the cheap bulk stuff that sits at the end of the aisle. Party is over, sure I'll take that bottle if you want.
> Hell for that matter I actually have other stuff people 'think they need'. Calm down they were all acquired legally from a doctor with a prescription.
> ...


There are lots of threads about bartering. I know there was one a while ago that was about what people are saving just for bartering. It had a lot of good ideas.
If you scroll to the bottom of the page, it shows some of them. I can't remember what the thread was called. I'll have to scroll through "my replies" to see if I can find it.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

doubleTHICK said:


> Just had a great idea . . .
> 
> Let's do a barter contest ...
> 
> What do we think? ....


Great idea. Implementation is the killer.

Postage to ship the bartered item.

Labor. OPSEC breach.


----------



## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Great idea. Implementation is the killer.
> 
> Postage to ship the bartered item.
> 
> Labor. OPSEC breach.


Honor System :flower:

Barter in your location and only ship if you want.
Take a picture of each item from the item you started with; then a pic of the item next in line and so on...
No rules other than NO exchange of modern currency (American Dollar, Peso, Canadian Dollar) trade only - - - but can trade whatever you want (((except money)))

It would be more for fun, bragging rights I guess.

Post the pic of your first item to enter. As long as all participants agree it is a suitable first item your in! At the end every participant votes for one other player but cannot vote for themselves.


----------



## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

jeff47041 said:


> There are lots of threads about bartering. I know there was one a while ago that was about what people are saving just for bartering. It had a lot of good ideas.
> If you scroll to the bottom of the page, it shows some of them. I can't remember what the thread was called. I'll have to scroll through "my replies" to see if I can find it.


Thank You :thankyou:


----------

