# Cheap EMP proof bug out veh?



## chester50441

So im trying to come up with a cheap bug out vehicle that I can use in case of EMP attack.. I have heared about the goverment report that statted 90% of Americans would die in the first year if the country was hit by a sucesful EMP attack and I am trying to be ready. I live in central VA and would need a vehicle capable of getting me up to some family property in the finger lake region of NY or maybe even the Adirondack Mountains. I need something able to transport me, my gf, our 2 dogs (optional since I prob wont be going that fast and I can make them run next to vehicle), about 2-3 rifles, 2-3 shotguns, about 5000+ rounds of ammo, a small water purification device, some MRE's (or other food storage), and an assortment of cloths, first aid gear, and other small surviaval stuff. 

Speed is not that important nor is size, just something that will start up and run after an EMP strike. I realize that there are some older trucks and stuff that might work but I really cant afford that on my salary. Was thinking about some type of go cart or something. 

So any ideas on something for say about $2000?


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## Ration-AL

chester50441 said:


> So any ideas on something for say about $2000?


2 bicycles with a cart and you still might be over your price.....

anything you get by the time you get it EMP proofed and reliable enough to trust your life with your going to be well over 2k....

and really just go and find any old carbureted engine that uses points and condenser type setup and start from there.....other than that just look around here there's plenty of info and choices on make and model, you might be better off just posting up the ones your considering in your price range and let us judge those instead of just saying you got 2k and are looking for an EMP car as car prices and ect ect ect vary through out the country and the rest.....help me help you ;-)


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## Well_Driller

I would think you could find an older truck in that price range. If it's diesel make sure it has an engine driven injector pump. Some older vehicles that are equiped with electronic ignition can be changed back to points and a carb. For example I have a 1989 F-350 with a 460 engine that has fuel injection and electronic ignition. I could change it back to a carb, and go back to points on it. I run that truck on propane anyway so the fuel injection system currently isn't working.... I would stay with something that has a common engine that's been around for a long time. The standard chevy 350 engine is also easy enough to run the points setup in, and parts are commonly found.


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## db2469

When were electronic ignitions first used, in other words, when was the last year the vehicles would NOT be susceptible to the electronic damage of a EMP?
DB


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## Marcus

Late 70s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignition_system

"This system was used almost universally until the late 1970s, when electronic ignition systems started to appear."
"FIAT became the first company to offer standard EI, in 1968, followed by Chrysler (after a 1971 trial) in 1973 and by Ford and GM in 1975."

75-ish sounds about right to me. That's when they switched to unleaded gas.


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## forluvofsmoke

I found some interesting reading, just now, on vehicle EMP testing and survivability which, although many, it seems, could be started and driven post-EMP, or, most could be driven during an EMP, while some may suffer at least nuisance malfunctions. A few others may require disconnecting the battery to reboot the engine computer to reverse the latch-up of electronics. The testing was somewhat limited in year model range, and the actual vehicle descriptions were kept concealed. It was more of a generic test of a small percentage of what they felt was a reasonable representation of vehicles being driven at the time of the testing, yet I failed to notice a date on the article page or the actual report.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html

Here's another from the same source regarding EMP myths:

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/EMP-myths.html

From what I gathered in the article about EMP vehicle testing (I didn't read entire article and attached report) you could just roll the dice, and chances seem rather high that your existing vehicle will not suffer permanent or serious operational damage, unless you wreck it while driving during an EMP, of course.


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## Magus

Mid 70's Ford bronco
Mid 70's Jeep
Mid 70's Toyota pickup.
buy a junker and fix it up.


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## Tirediron

Just going by the year of a vehicle is a bit of a gamble, electronic ignition was often retro fitted to earlier engines because of the better spark that it produced, point ignition likes a lot of maintainance. lots of newer , up to about '93 stuff can be converted back to points ignition/ carb fairly easily, if they are manual transmission or mechanicaly controled automatics. 
This game requires a fair degree of mechanical knowledge and skill. just buying a '73 F150 does not guarantee an EMP proof ride. basicly anything with transistorized circuits can be vulnerable, but does not guarantee it.


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## FedIsHijacked

*manual-cranked motorbikes*

Motorcycles, and motor scooters (which run about $2,000 each and are lots of fun too), are a good option since you have your site set up. I would only buy one with the foot crank starter for assurance of starting ability.


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## Conelrad

I have opted for several 80's vintage Mercedes Diesels, i.e. 300SD, 300TD, 240D. 

The most electronics in them is the radio and the voltage regulator in the alternator. The preheat timer can easily be 'manualized".

While not a 4X4, they have engineered ground clearance and weight balance suitable for third-world driving (keep in mind the US is not the only place they were meant for).

Easy to buy (<$2K) and fix, old enough not to be thought of a 'high dollar rides' anymore.

Fuelwise mine run just fine on regular Diesel, kerosene, used ATF, filtered fryer oil (in Summer over 80 degrees). 

In a pinch, used motor oil and gasoline mixed works OK too. I've even run lots of miles on pulled hydraulic oil from a big crane.

If you make your own biodiesel (I don't), it stores OK and runs great on it as well.

Matter of fact, I've kept pump Diesel in barrels for years without 'preservative' juice and never had an issue running it. Can't be said for gas...

Just one man's answer, YMMV.

DG


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## CulexPipiens

Couple of horses and a few backpacks? Guaranteed not to be affected by an EMP and the dogs should have no problem keeping up. 

Ration-Al's suggestion of bikes with a cart is probably even cheaper than horses... no ongoing maintenance.

Finally, get something old and cheap, fix it up and in the process hopefully learn all about what you need to do to keep it working and maintain it.


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## FrankW

Actually a pair of good bicyles with a cart is nothing to sneeze at.
Road would be clogged and impassabale anyway with out of gas cars ib the scenario you mention.


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## k0xxx

While not exactly a bug out vehicle, I'll be relying on my two 1939 Ford 9N tractors for local transportation, if we have an EMP event. They have Model T engines, and I have stocked plenty of spare parts. Both have Sherman step up transmissions and fairly decent on fuel. If needed I have a set of WWII vintage iron wheels, so flats wouldn't be an issue. Hook a trailer to it, and we're ready to go into town. If needed, we could cover some decent distances (it'd be tough to drive long distances with the iron tires over pavement though...).


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## CrackbottomLouis

forluvofsmoke said:


> I found some interesting reading, just now, on vehicle EMP testing and survivability which, although many, it seems, could be started and driven post-EMP, or, most could be driven during an EMP, while some may suffer at least nuisance malfunctions. A few others may require disconnecting the battery to reboot the engine computer to reverse the latch-up of electronics. The testing was somewhat limited in year model range, and the actual vehicle descriptions were kept concealed. It was more of a generic test of a small percentage of what they felt was a reasonable representation of vehicles being driven at the time of the testing, yet I failed to notice a date on the article page or the actual report.
> 
> http://www.futurescience.com/emp/vehicles.html
> 
> Here's another from the same source regarding EMP myths:
> 
> http://www.futurescience.com/emp/EMP-myths.html
> 
> From what I gathered in the article about EMP vehicle testing (I didn't read entire article and attached report) you could just roll the dice, and chances seem rather high that your existing vehicle will not suffer permanent or serious operational damage, unless you wreck it while driving during an EMP, of course.


Good article thanks for the post.


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## Zanazaz

CulexPipiens said:


> Couple of horses and a few backpacks? Guaranteed not to be affected by an EMP and the dogs should have no problem keeping up.
> 
> *Ration-Al's suggestion of bikes with a cart is probably even cheaper than horses... no ongoing maintenance.*
> 
> Finally, get something old and cheap, fix it up and in the process hopefully learn all about what you need to do to keep it working and maintain it.


Anything with moving parts is going to eventually need maintenance. Bike tires go flat. Spokes can break. The chain need lubrication. Sure a bike isn't as maintenance dependent as a motor vehicle, but it still requires some maintenance.

A horse will also need some kind of maintenance. Even your own feet will need some kind of maintenance if you do a lot of walking. ( Break in some hiking boots BEFORE TSHTF! )

As far as motor vehicles that are EMP proof, I'm not sure I would trust anything new. I don't know how much it costs, but EMP testing can't be cheap, and to tell you the truth, I bet the auto makers don't give a rat's bum about whether their vehicles are EMP proof or not.

The more electronic parts a vehicle has, the less likely it's going to survive an EMP.

So I agree about buying an older vehicle, then buy another one for parts. Store spares of any part that might be susceptible to EMP in a Faraday cage. If you're on a budget then you need to increase your budget for preps!


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## kyhillbilly

I am working up a 1990 Chevy Suburban, I swapped out the 350 and replaced it with a 454 with points and condensor, changed out the transmission and put in a TH400, all of the modern electronics are gone, even the power windows.
I have extra engine, transnission, transfer case, front end, rear end, drive shafts, and engine add ons stored under ground at my get away. I have extra points and condensors in a home made farraday cage on the vehicle and under ground, (6) sets total.
I carrier 2 extra tires on rims on the roof carrier and have added an aux. fuel tank.
I got the truck for $2500. Put $2000 each in both engines and $1000 in each transmission, I have about $15,000 in this vehicle. All the work except the tranny and transfer case was done by me.
I hope I have to never use it, buy if needed it should work.

Hillbilly


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## Tirediron

Sound like a good plan, have you got plug wires stored up, for some reason point ignition eats plug wires, unless you opt for solid wire cores.


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## d_saum

For $2000.00 you should be able to find a good old Jeep (I got a wagoneer for exactly $2K as my EMP B/O vehicle), a k5 Blazer, or a plethora of old pick up trucks that are carbureted, and you can pick up spare ignition parts. I'm slacking as I have yet to do this, but I am going to very soon, and will keep them in a faraday box (cardboard box wrapped totally in aluminum foil)  

Personally.. I'd avoid diesel only because it'd be harder to find. Gas will be plentiful after an EMP if most cars are fried. Someone else on here made a good case for running a diesel on all sorts of alternative fuels, but for me, at least initially, it'll be easier to obtain gas. After a year or so, the population would be severely reduced, and you could then re-assess your fuel situation.


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## Diabeticprepper

BlueZ said:


> Actually a pair of good bicyles with a cart is nothing to sneeze at.
> Road would be clogged and impassabale anyway with out of gas cars ib the scenario you mention.


I have a mountain bike set up with racks and am building a trailer for it this winter. When I was diagnosed with diabetes I knew exercise was my new best friend so I started riding and camping off my bike again. I should do a bicycle as transportation post.


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## VUnder

The only thing about bikes in the US is that they are puny, flimsy things nowadays. They are made to just ride around the neighborhood with the kids once or twice a year. I was in Amsterdam a while back. A lot of people ride bikes there, I mean a lot of people. Their bikes looked industrial strength compared to the bikes I see around here. The cranks were splined onto the crankshaft. The rear wheel had a large driver, and the spokes were huge. My bro bought an expensive mountain bike, and the spokes cratered after he rode it a few days. The old bikes we had when I was young, now they were tough. I pulled many a little trailer with mine. Never gave any problem. But, they were made tough, when people expected a good product for good money.


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## Jimmy24

Only for sure vehicle is a diesel, manual fuel shut off, parked on a hill.

There is nothing electrical required to run this setup.

This is if you want a "for sure" set up.

If you want REAL info on emp effects, read up on the K-3 event in the Soviet Union in the '60s. Info on it has finally starting to leak out.

Rest assured if someone is going to the trouble of an EMP attack on us, they will make sure we are shut down....think it through....

Jimmy


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## Diabeticprepper

VUnder said:


> The only thing about bikes in the US is that they are puny, flimsy things nowadays. They are made to just ride around the neighborhood with the kids once or twice a year. I was in Amsterdam a while back. A lot of people ride bikes there, I mean a lot of people. Their bikes looked industrial strength compared to the bikes I see around here. The cranks were splined onto the crankshaft. The rear wheel had a large driver, and the spokes were huge. My bro bought an expensive mountain bike, and the spokes cratered after he rode it a few days. The old bikes we had when I was young, now they were tough. I pulled many a little trailer with mine. Never gave any problem. But, they were made tough, when people expected a good product for good money.


Testify! I am a bikey and for the most part I agree, but surly and xtracycle as well a few others are making bikes that are like tanks. I currently run a older than dirt GT outpost (now out of production) and it just won't die all I have ever had to do was regular maintenance. It has no shocks, is a solid chro-molly steel frame with racks and bags. I bikepack, tour and commute with this rig it has never let me down.
http://www.xtracycle.com/
http://surlybikes.com/


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## LincTex

Jimmy24 said:


> Only for sure vehicle is a diesel, manual fuel shut off, parked on a hill. There is nothing electrical required to run this setup. This is if you want a "for sure" set up.


That would be me!! 
'79 F250 with a 4BT-3.9 Cummins with a mechanical Bosch VE pump and the factory 4-speed. Not "under $2000" but pretty darn close.

.....And If I am not already on top of a hill (but I am), 
I have a single-cylinder, hand-crank Diesel tractor I can use to pull it back up the hill. 
....And plant my "field" with. 
....And use to pull the bigger tractor to get it started if needed!

I don't think diesel will be that hard to find. 
I make mental notes of where it is stored as I drive around.


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## Archetype

Aircooled Type 2 VW bus with crank start pulley. No battery needed and runs with a generator, not an alternator.


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> That would be me!!
> '79 F250 with a 4BT-3.9 Cummins with a mechanical Bosch VE pump and the factory 4-speed. Not "under $2000" but pretty darn close.
> 
> .....And If I am not already on top of a hill (but I am),
> I have a single-cylinder, hand-crank Diesel tractor I can use to pull it back up the hill.
> ....And plant my "field" with.
> ....And use to pull the bigger tractor to get it started if needed!
> 
> I don't think diesel will be that hard to find.
> I make mental notes of where it is stored as I drive around.


I'm planning on swapping either a 4bt or a 6bt and a manual trans into my K5 Blazer...plus a bunch of other mods. Gotta get a few other things taken care of first though.


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## Beaniemaster2

First, let me welcome you to the Forum... I can see that this is your first post... Did you do a search on related threads to your question??? There is alot you can learn from all these wonderful people and everyone is always eager to help concerning anything! Just ask...

I can only guess here but it sounds like you need to get to your BOL (bug out location)... Sorry, don't know if this is your first Forum either and if you are famular with the lingo... hahaha Unless you have no other choice, I would highly recommend bugging in.. The roads will be far more dangerous than people can imagine... (Not trying to sound negative here, just my honest opinion) You would be traveling into a big unsafe unknown...

We have a '71 VW Bug that will still run and have extra parts stored for it just in case... Although this will not hold alot, there are car tops available for extra storage and it is very manuverable in tight situations unlike a big truck... Based on your comments, you did not mention extra gas to be sure you will be able to make it to your destination... Be sure to at least have a siphon hose in your supplies as cars sitting on the sides of the roads will be your only option for gas as there will be no gas stations available...

The second thing is your choice of weapons... do consider that shotguns and rifles are nearly impossible to use in a such a confined area, I would highly recommend you have at least one handgun to keep people from dragging you out of your vehicle and taking it...

Although our Bug will run, we have no intention of going anywhere!!! Our kids 125miles away have plans to use bicycles with pull behinds to get to us as they understand that trying to come and get them would be far more dangerous... (I say this now but not sure how I would react if it came to that... I'm sure my first instinct would be to go and try and get them!) Alot of people gave very sound advice that I agree with... Surely you could get some realiable bikes, or a motorbike and all the spare parts you would need with $2,000 but if you still want a car, do consider an old VW cause there's not awhole lot that can go wrong on one of them and they're air cooled so one less thing to worry about... and again, welcome to the Forum


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## mojo4

I know they are as gay as a Frisco drag queen but I was looking at scooters. Great gas mileage and pull cord start. Basically a gay lawnmower!! But beats walking by a long shot! Plus every gizmo in asia seems to have one and can haul the whole family around. Well, time to turn in the man card.


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## Meerkat

A bicycle built for 2 with a cart.And alot of leg exercises.Or a donkey with teir vocal cords removed in case you have to hide and be quite,haha,just kidding,don't hurt one of those sweet little darlings.


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## LincTex

mojo4 said:


> Great gas mileage and pull cord start.


That's a mini-bike... Scooters are "step-through" and usually electric start.

VERY COOL:


















Uhhh.... not so much:









I used to have one of these a long time ago:









There is NOTHING that is "uncool" about the Doodlebug:









I now ride one of these:


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## Jimmy24

LincTex said:


> That would be me!!
> '79 F250 with a 4BT-3.9 Cummins with a mechanical Bosch VE pump and the factory 4-speed. Not "under $2000" but pretty darn close.
> 
> .....And If I am not already on top of a hill (but I am),
> I have a single-cylinder, hand-crank Diesel tractor I can use to pull it back up the hill.
> ....And plant my "field" with.
> ....And use to pull the bigger tractor to get it started if needed!
> 
> I don't think diesel will be that hard to find.
> I make mental notes of where it is stored as I drive around.


Good plan! I got 2 cyl Yanmar, manual pump and a hill....

Diesel will store a lot longer than gas and a bit safer to store. Water condensates a little more in it, but that's why ya have a water filter/separator ....The 55 gals I have stored will work my garden for 10+ years if it will last long enough. I have sucessfully stored it for 4 years with good treatment. Worked fine in my Yanmy...:congrat:

Jimmy


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> I'm planning on swapping either a 4bt or a 6bt and a manual trans into my K5 Blazer.


A 4BT is about 825 pounds. It *definitely* weighs more than an all-cast-iron 460 that came out. The front of my truck was a full inch lower after the swap.

I had bought a 6BT first and thought about swapping it in, but it is about 1200 pounds. Just too darn heavy.

A CUCV Blazer might be built a bit heavier and might handle it better.


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## Jimmy24

Archetype said:


> Aircooled Type 2 VW bus with crank start pulley. No battery needed and runs with a generator, not an alternator.


So it's known. Generator or alternator, makes no difference. Both are susceptible to emp along with their respective regulators. Anything with a winding is likely to be rendered useless. An ignition system has a coil and condenser that are also susceptible.

Jimmy


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> A 4BT is about 825 pounds. It *definitely* weighs more than an all-cast-iron 460 that came out. The front of my truck was a full inch lower after the swap.
> 
> I had bought a 6BT first and thought about swapping it in, but it is about 1200 pounds. Just too darn heavy.
> 
> A CUCV Blazer might be built a bit heavier and might handle it better.


I'll be plating the framerails, swapping axles, and a bunch of other stuff, so it should handle the weight fine. I think the 6bt is probably out, but if I find one cheap..... From what I just found online, the 4bt is only about 200 lbs heavier than an all iron 460. Oddly enough, the 4bt is also about 200 pounds heavier than the craptastic 305 it will be replacing.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> 4bt is only about 200 lbs heavier than an all iron 460. Oddly enough, the 4bt is also about 200 pounds heavier than the craptastic 305 it will be replacing.


No.....
4BT-3.9 = ~825+ pounds
Ford 460 = ~650+ pounds
Chev 305 = ~500+ (thinwall block and lt wt heads)


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> I'll be plating the framerails, swapping axles, and a bunch of other stuff,


Boxing in the "C" section will about just double the strength. I would be torn between building a Blazer or Suburban, both have advantages - I would lean towards the 'Burb, though.


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## Tirediron

Jimmy24 said:


> So it's known. Generator or alternator, makes no difference. Both are susceptible to emp along with their respective regulators. Anything with a winding is likely to be rendered useless. An ignition system has a coil and condenser that are also susceptible.
> 
> Jimmy


If your senario is correct nothing is going to run post EMP except full mechanical diesels that call be pull started.

Since we haven't actually had an event the damage is speculation, some "tests" show little or no damage...


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## Archetype

Jimmy24 said:


> So it's known. Generator or alternator, makes no difference. Both are susceptible to emp along with their respective regulators. Anything with a winding is likely to be rendered useless. An ignition system has a coil and condenser that are also susceptible.
> 
> Jimmy


Alternators will be susceptible because they have diodes. Generators are a field generated power source, thus why they are creating power due to
Faraday Laws. There is nothing to burn out a generator when it comes to a micro burst of heavily charged electrons passing on the outside of a wire. It is simply a magnetized core passing pole for pole past a coil to generate electricity. Same goes for an alternators voltage regulator, full of resistors that will in fact possibly shit themselves if there is not enough paths for the pulse to travel. Older generators used a simple relay to regulate voltage, again not an issue.

Coils are also not susceptible as they are simple transformers creating power from windings that sit next to each other. No sensitive electronics. EMP does not turn wires into charred piles of junk. Condensers are basically capacitors, so I will agree that those are out.

For reference, it has been mentioned that if the wire passing towards a sensitive circuit is less than 30 inches in length it will not have ample space given the wavelength of the EMP signal. It is a wave/pulse similar to a radio wave, thus certain lengths will not receive the wave just as little antennas on radios have worse reception than larger antennas that are properly sized to receive a specific wavelength.


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## Jimmy24

Tirediron said:


> If your senario is correct nothing is going to run post EMP except full mechanical diesels that call be pull started.
> 
> Since we haven't actually had an event the damage is speculation, some "tests" show little or no damage...


Yes there is real life experince. An EMP and CME event that were real life.

The K3 test in 1962 Kazakhstan by the Soviet Union graphically proved that. This test was only 300 kilotons. Some info has come from ORNL.

Not to mention the info is out there explaining the different effects of EMP. Top down and bottom up currents, etc. Some last nanoseconds others can last for days.

As I said before, "if" we had an EMP attack, the parties involved will make sure we are dead in the water.

And were it a CME event, the 1856 Carrington event shows what the simplest electrical equipment will stop working.

Maybe things will run, though I don't think so. I will plan and prepare as though things will not come back or work after one of these type of events.

My thoughts on a push start diesel with manual fuel shutoff are a "for sure" that's all. If everything still works, great, but what if it doesn't? :dunno: :gaah:

Jimmy


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## Jimmy24

Archetype said:


> Alternators will be susceptible because they have diodes. Generators are a field generated power source, thus why they are creating power due to
> Faraday Laws. There is nothing to burn out a generator when it comes to a micro burst of heavily charged electrons passing on the outside of a wire. It is simply a magnetized core passing pole for pole past a coil to generate electricity. Same goes for an alternators voltage regulator, full of resistors that will in fact possibly shit themselves if there is not enough paths for the pulse to travel. Older generators used a simple relay to regulate voltage, again not an issue.
> 
> Coils are also not susceptible as they are simple transformers creating power from windings that sit next to each other. No sensitive electronics. EMP does not turn wires into charred piles of junk. Condensers are basically capacitors, so I will agree that those are out.
> 
> For reference, it has been mentioned that if the wire passing towards a sensitive circuit is less than 30 inches in length it will not have ample space given the wavelength of the EMP signal. It is a wave/pulse similar to a radio wave, thus certain lengths will not receive the wave just as little antennas on radios have worse reception than larger antennas that are properly sized to receive a specific wavelength.


You also need to do some study on the K3 event and the Carrington event. "IEEE Transactions on Electromagnetic Compatibility, Vol. 40, No. 4, November 1998". ORNL also has some reading

But this has been debated forever and your opinion is just as important as everyone else's. Thanks for your input. :2thumb:

I will plan as if it all shuts down.

JImmy


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## Jimmy24

Archetype said:


> Alternators will be susceptible because they have diodes. Generators are a field generated power source, thus why they are creating power due to
> Faraday Laws.


Oh btw, altenators are excited field circiuts. The regulator turns them on. It is in the rotor.

A generator has a certain amount of current produced from turning it and fields back through the field coils to close the relays in it's regulator.

A field is required to produce electricity with any equipment the public would work with.

I worked in the altenator/generator/starter bizz for nearly 10 years. 30 spent with an electrical utility.

Trust me when I say the grid is very worried about the transformers and related equipment in an emp event of any sort.

Jimmy


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## LincTex

I would also think that all older automotive generators would need to have their field "flashed" to start working again.


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## marlas1too

i have 2 dodge 4x4 one a 77 and the other 79 then 2 more dodges 4x4 one 82 and a 89 all are hemp proof and if the 80s ones won't run even with their rudimentary comps. i have extra ones for them in a Faraday cage in storage all are gas and i have stable gas stored all big trucks with hitches and go power---check your local auto grave yard and see if they have one to sell if it runs cheap its where i bought all 4 of my trucks and 2 are mill. spec.


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## LincTex

I don't think the Mil-Spec CUCV Dodges are EMP proof, honestly. 

Mil-Spec - - Yes, but they are "cheap" mil-spec. They didn't shield anything in them. 

I would probably trust alternators over old generators. I have enough stored in a safe place, anyway.


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> No.....
> 4BT-3.9 = ~825+ pounds
> Ford 460 = ~650+ pounds
> Chev 305 = ~500+ (thinwall block and lt wt heads)


There's nothing lightweight on that 305. It's an 84 model. I found the weights in a couple of places online.

I'd consider a 3/4 ton 'burb, but they're really a bit big for tight trails.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> There's nothing lightweight on that 305. It's an 84 model. I found the weights in a couple of places online.


I used to build circle track engines 20-25 years ago. Chevy started doing lightweight/thinwall castings in the very late 70's... I remember there being a fair amount of difference between a 305 block weight that I could lift with one hand, and a 50's or 60's 283 or 327 block. The heads were noticeably lighter, too (and you couldn't mill them because the decks were so thin)


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> than the craptastic 305 it will be replacing.


You know... the only reason the 305 got a bad rep is because the factory set them up incorrectly. They came on the scene when all the rage was lazy cam profiles installed 8 degrees retarded, 8:1 compression, and the worst carburetor calibrations and timing curves in history.

If you build one properly (and I have) with the correct cam, the correct timing curve, a correctly built and metered carb, properly prepared '76-'77 heads, etc. the 305 is actually *QUITE* a good engine. 
There isn't anything wrong with it if done right.... the problem was the factory did not "do them right".


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## zombieresponder

I agree that the emissions crap killed the 305(and everything else late 70's-late 80's), but I can't see where it offers anything over the 4.3 V6 or the 350. I also can't see spending any money on a 305 when a 350 uses the same parts, pistons excluded, and has more displacement. Valve guides seem not to hold up as well on the 305 too. 

My blazer was also crippled with the 700r4 transmission. The later years were better, but the first couple were junk. I bought a TH350/NP205 combo to swap in, but after a lot more thought I will probably go with a manual trans and NP205/NP203 doubler.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> I can't see where it offers anything over the 4.3 V6 or the 350.
> Valve guides seem not to hold up as well on the 305 too.


The 4.3 is lighter and smaller, but will never make the torque of the 305. I had a "properly" built 305 in a '76 4WD with 3.08 gears get 16-17 mpg (4 speed/205). I once got 19mpg with a good tailwind. You would never get a 4.3 in the same truck to do this.

I have tried 350's in the same combo and could not get near the same gas mileage.

The valve guide issue is pretty year specific... lower nickel content in the iron (cost cutting) is to blame, but bronze K-line guides fix that... but I avoid those particular years of castings for other reasons anyway.


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## MRGUMBY

If you are looking for something simple and reliable, the 1960-1980 ish ford pickup with the 6 cylinder engine is pretty much the ultimate. The van is even better as a BOV. These are simple, bullet proof and will give you about 17MPG assured on the highway.

Even a later one, as long as it is the carburetor fed 300 or 240 inline 6 cylinder, will accept the old style distributor. This is a VERY simple thing to change over and they can be had anywhere for under 200 dollars with cap and rotor complete (for a rebuilt).

I am, by default, more of a chevy man...but one cannot argue the great 300 6 that Ford made. The C6 auto is almost unkillable and all but the cheesy 3 speed overdrive trannies are tough as nails. (Even the OD model is fine if you make sure it has plenty of oil in it.)

These can be had anywhere, running decent, for under 2K


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## Tirediron

Ford 300s are ok but laughable when compared to a chev 292 , which swaps in to any chev V8 trans without having to spend 3 years finding the matching parts for a ford swap.

Chev finally got the 305 right from the factory in '85-86 pick ups , but I would rather have a 350, if I had to have a micro engine


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> Ford 300s are ok but laughable when compared to a chev 292


The 292 is pretty unique engine, and is really not very common anymore. I have not run across one in several years. Almost any 292 "sitting idle" for a while will have the exhaust manifold missing from it.


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## Tirediron

well of course GM quit using then, they do that every time they get something right, like the vortec 350 (after they fixed the intake gasket leak problem.


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## cnsper

A couple of Percherons and a wagon would be your best bet. You can't eat your truck.... LOL


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## LincTex

cnsper said:


> A couple of Percherons and a wagon would be your best bet. You can't eat your truck.... LOL


Yeah, but my diesel F250 will sit in the driveway for weeks at a time - - without feeding it (or even charging the batteries!) - - when the weather is nice and I ride my motorcycle only. No care needed whatsoever. After three weeks of sitting if it rains I just jump in it and go - - no issues, no drama, no fuss.


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## cnsper

HA HA HA! You all are discussing the best EMP Proofe vehicle. Kinda like those that build faraday cages with the hopes of saving their electronics that they will get some sort of warning about or have electricity to operate.

On the other hand. How much did that truck sitting in your driveway cost you? How much fuel do you put in it a year? What about the other costs such as tires, oil, filters etc? What about the insurance? Your truck can not reproduce itself.

You have to think about all the costs before you discount the other idea.


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## forluvofsmoke

cnsper said:


> HA HA HA! You all are discussing the best EMP Proofe vehicle. Kinda like those that build faraday cages with the hopes of saving their electronics that they will get some sort of warning about or have electricity to operate.
> 
> On the other hand. How much did that truck sitting in your driveway cost you? How much fuel do you put in it a year? What about the other costs such as tires, oil, filters etc? What about the insurance? Your truck can not reproduce itself.
> 
> You have to think about all the costs before you discount the other idea.


Good points...another thing to consider is that horses need X amount of acreage, depending on the climate/location, to graze in summer, and each will consume X amount of feed during winter. It's by no means cheap to maintain horses, especially draft horses. My 18-y/o son was given three quarter horses several months ago and he has them in the community corrals...$150/year for the lot plus his own maintenance on the fence/shed, but the feed is about breaking him. I asked him why he thought the previous owners would just hand him the reins to three horses, no questions asked...no answer...I answered the question for him...because they could not afford to feed them. This is beef and lamb country around here, and even in a good hay year, it can cost upwards of $100/month for hay for one quarter-horse. Recently, to get hay locally, it;s pushing $400/ton...the ranchers here who have hay in stock for the winter won't sell unless they get at least twice what they'd have to pay to replace it next spring if they run out. He's in the process of selling the mare to an out of state buyer for only $200, because the buyer is transporting it himself, and, no-one is buying horses around here right now, because anyone that has them knows what it costs to keep them.

If you don't already have what you need to support the animals, you don't want to go through the expense of starting out fresh. Sure, pack-horses, mules and draft horses would be a great way to go for long-term SHTF, but if you have no other use for them now, that's a major expense of dollars and time for maintaining those animals. If you are already homesteading, and maintaining a certain level of self-sufficiency, then you'll have use for such animals from now until you decide to hang up the harness and collar. A vehicle costs you insurance and registration fees, yes, but maintenance and operating cost is minimal, especially when it's only driven a few miles each week. Cost for vehicle vs animal? Depends on individual location, property, etc, but vehicles will cost less for those who don't have property to support the animal. Yes, a vehicle needs fuel and maintenance, which won't be accessible post-SHTF, unless you have a stock of certain parts, fuel and preventive maintenance items on hand, but hey, domesticated animals need all of this as well, and they need time with their master to build/maintain trust and respect. Bottom line: if you can't commit the time and resources necessary to properly maintain and care for an animal, then, don't own one.


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## LincTex

cnsper said:


> 1) How much did that truck sitting in your driveway cost you?
> 2) How much fuel do you put in it a year?
> 3) What about the other costs such as tires, oil, filters etc?
> 4)What about the insurance?


1) My dad bought it brand new in 1978. I bought it from him in 1997 for $500. I pulled the 400M engine out and swapped in a 4BT-3.9 Cummins diesel in 2007, the engine cost $1700 and already had the bellhousing adapter on it with a new clutch assembly.

2) Since I drive the Softail when it isn't raining, I put right around 1000-1500 miles a year. At 25 MPG, that's about 50-60 gallons a year... at $3.89 that's about $200 a *YEAR* for fuel.

3) Put one used tire on the front pass side in 2009 for $25. Found a new tire on Craigslist in 2010 for the pass rear, that was $45. Both are still fine.
I have never changed the engine oil since I put the engine in. The cost for oil analysis through my company is $6.50, and I do it once a year. I add about a quart of oil per year. I am going to change the oil before winter, it will cost me $30.

4) Good question... The truck is 34 years old and I get a lot of discounts. I think I pay $134 a year, and my wife's minivan is around $550-600 a year. Those numbers are pretty close, but I would have to go find the old bill somewhere. We pay a full year at a time. The '88 Softail insurance is $62 a year.



cnsper said:


> You have to think about all the costs before you discount the other idea.


It is you who is not thinking of costs. 
I have owned horses in the past, have dated women that owned horses and I am currently friends with people that own horses, and the subject of COST OF OWNERSHIP of a horse comes up ALL THE TIME. It would be rediculous to think that owning a horse is an inexpensive hobby in this area. Maybe in eastern Montana it isn't so bad, but it is EXPENSIVE in these here parts.


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## Shammua

The do it yourself EMP proofing kit.


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## Tirediron

Shammua if your pic won't load, you can open the edit window , open the pic, then copy and paste the title bar into your post, then it will link to it.


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## Shammua

Tirediron said:


> Shammua if your pic won't load, you can open the edit window , open the pic, then copy and paste the title bar into your post, then it will link to it.


???? I see the pic just fine. Never had an issue in the past with posting pics either so not sure what you are talking about???


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## LincTex

Shammua said:


> ???? I see the pic just fine. Never had an issue in the past with posting pics either so not sure what you are talking about???


It does not show. Can you copy and paste the URL?


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## Shammua

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/e630571859.jpg


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## LincTex

Shammua said:


> http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/e630571859.jpg


I added IMG tags /IMG tags and it doesn't show for me?


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## PAPreppers

I am personally working on a bug out bike. It's completely EMP proof. Look on Google images and you'll find a lot of results for "SHTF bike".


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## LincTex

PAPreppers said:


> ...a bug out bike. It's completely EMP proof...Google images ... "SHTF bike".


You should still have a small gas engine set-up (tried and tested), then preserved and stored.

Not because we shouldn't be athletic and fit.... but if you need to get somewhere faster than just pedaling by yourself, that is the ticket.

Besides, it would give you some rest. 
No one wants to pedal for 30 miles straight (or more!) in a "NEED TO" situation... 
versus an "I want to do this for fun" situation.


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## MRGUMBY

I dont see it either.


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## oif_ghost_tod

IMHO there's only one true EMP proof transport method...leather personnel carriers (hiking boots)...unless you have a horse, donkey, or a mildly obnoxious yak to ride on or to pull a cart. 
Sure, bikes are quiet and human powered, but other than fast-paced and lightweight runs (courier runs, reconnaissance); they are impractical if you have any sizeable amount of gear or ammo to bring with you where you are going.
Bike trailers and such are a possibility but you better load that puppy down and train yourself to pedal that thing now! 
For me, ill be hoofin' it.


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## LincTex

MRGUMBY said:


> I dont see it either.


It's just one of those cheap squeeze-bulb siphon hose things. Not a quality one, like for outboards.


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## chester50441

Beaniemaster2 said:


> First, let me welcome you to the Forum... I can see that this is your first post... Did you do a search on related threads to your question??? There is alot you can learn from all these wonderful people and everyone is always eager to help concerning anything! Just ask...
> 
> I can only guess here but it sounds like you need to get to your BOL (bug out location)... Sorry, don't know if this is your first Forum either and if you are famular with the lingo... hahaha Unless you have no other choice, I would highly recommend bugging in.. The roads will be far more dangerous than people can imagine... (Not trying to sound negative here, just my honest opinion) You would be traveling into a big unsafe unknown...
> 
> We have a '71 VW Bug that will still run and have extra parts stored for it just in case... Although this will not hold alot, there are car tops available for extra storage and it is very manuverable in tight situations unlike a big truck... Based on your comments, you did not mention extra gas to be sure you will be able to make it to your destination... Be sure to at least have a siphon hose in your supplies as cars sitting on the sides of the roads will be your only option for gas as there will be no gas stations available...
> 
> The second thing is your choice of weapons... do consider that shotguns and rifles are nearly impossible to use in a such a confined area, I would highly recommend you have at least one handgun to keep people from dragging you out of your vehicle and taking it...
> 
> Although our Bug will run, we have no intention of going anywhere!!! Our kids 125miles away have plans to use bicycles with pull behinds to get to us as they understand that trying to come and get them would be far more dangerous... (I say this now but not sure how I would react if it came to that... I'm sure my first instinct would be to go and try and get them!) Alot of people gave very sound advice that I agree with... Surely you could get some realiable bikes, or a motorbike and all the spare parts you would need with $2,000 but if you still want a car, do consider an old VW cause there's not awhole lot that can go wrong on one of them and they're air cooled so one less thing to worry about... and again, welcome to the Forum


I really wish I could bug in, but I live in the suburbs near Richmond, VA. Way too much potential for looting and I dont have access to growing stuff or raising livestock. My family owns 38 acres in the farming reagion of upstate NY and that would be my bug out location. I do relize that the roads would be very dangerous but I need to head out (as I have put in another post I will need to raise pigs in order to harvest there thyroid to keep my wife alive). 
As far as the weapons are concerned I have multiple handguns, everything from 22 to .38 to .45 and everywhere in between so I am covered on that account. 
I am actualy consedering getting a 4 wheel peddel vehicle and outfitting it with a small engine. Now this type of vehicle will not offer protection but can be used to move my weapons and ammo (about 20 long guns, 10 handguns, some hand weapons, and probably 10,000+ rounds of mixed ammo.
I figure that I will be hiking most of the way (have a general route that will take me thru rural areas and will require me to go west thru VA, West VA, PA, before curving back a bit) but I need something to transport all my gear. I figure a pedeal vehicle with a cart attached to it should carry most of my gear (plus of course my BOB as well as the saddel bags that I bought for the dogs). 
The problem is I am trying to figure out where to find the best plan for one. I figure if I can find a place to buy a good building kit that I can tweak it to beef up the design (thinking of having 4 wheel on the rear axcel instead of 2). I am a bigger guy (240lbs) and a former soldier and current police officer so my size and gear will be pretty heavy. 
If anyone has seen a site that sells a good kit or building instructions for this type of application I would be appreciative. And if no site exsists wouldnt this be a great business idea for any of you who are good at inventing these types of things


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## Shammua

chester50441 said:


> I really wish I could bug in, but I live in the suburbs near Richmond, VA. Way too much potential for looting and I dont have access to growing stuff or raising livestock. My family owns 38 acres in the farming reagion of upstate NY and that would be my bug out location. I do relize that the roads would be very dangerous but I need to head out (as I have put in another post I will need to raise pigs in order to harvest there thyroid to keep my wife alive).
> As far as the weapons are concerned I have multiple handguns, everything from 22 to .38 to .45 and everywhere in between so I am covered on that account.
> I am actualy consedering getting a 4 wheel peddel vehicle and outfitting it with a small engine. Now this type of vehicle will not offer protection but can be used to move my weapons and ammo (about 20 long guns, 10 handguns, some hand weapons, and probably 10,000+ rounds of mixed ammo.
> I figure that I will be hiking most of the way (have a general route that will take me thru rural areas and will require me to go west thru VA, West VA, PA, before curving back a bit) but I need something to transport all my gear. I figure a pedeal vehicle with a cart attached to it should carry most of my gear (plus of course my BOB as well as the saddel bags that I bought for the dogs).
> The problem is I am trying to figure out where to find the best plan for one. I figure if I can find a place to buy a good building kit that I can tweak it to beef up the design (thinking of having 4 wheel on the rear axcel instead of 2). I am a bigger guy (240lbs) and a former soldier and current police officer so my size and gear will be pretty heavy.
> If anyone has seen a site that sells a good kit or building instructions for this type of application I would be appreciative. And if no site exsists wouldnt this be a great business idea for any of you who are good at inventing these types of things


Living in Virginia Beach myself and thinking of you having to travel up to upstate NY is scarier to me than trying to bug in in Richmond. Think about how bad things are right now just with the after math of hurricane Sandy, now make that exponential for a breakdown and then thinking about trying to travel through any of that. I wouldn't even try to make a trip through basically all city and urban area's for how many hours to your location. I wouldn't do it even with a fully armed escort and brinks trucks and APC's.

In all honesty if you are going to use upstate NY as your BOL, I would move as much as possible up there in advance and keep with you the needed items to get you there. Also make sure you plan to Bug Out before everyone else since you are going to be passing through such densly populated areas. (Remember that even if you are driving through what appears to be country side, it is still considered densly populated when we are referring to mass exodus and a break down of service's for the sheeple.

 Shammua


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## chester50441

Thanks for the thought, 
Yea


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## chester50441

Thanks for the thought, 
Although it is a long way to go it really would be worth it. All the problams you se on TV are near the coast and all the major population centers. Most of upstate NY is nothing like the "greater NY area". Also the route I would be taking would not put me close to any major metropolitan area. Unfortunatly since my BOL is currently owned by my mother I cant really stock it like I would like too. I realize that some of my firearms may be left behind but the best are comming with me or will be distributed to the people I will have comming with me (ie. wifes family, some of her co-wokers from the Operating Room, and a couple of my friends that are also cops).
The plan will be to move mainly at night and move like an infintry squad. The BOV will be to transport much of my supplies, but I feel confident that as long as we hit the road before the hoards start to ban together I will have sufficent firepower to keep individuals and small groups at bay.
Lets be honest those that are preparred and have a plan are not the ones that we will have to worry about when heading out, its those that are not prepared and not organized that will try to take others stuff at first.


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## DRUNKnMONKEY

If your set on building a bov,I would recommend 73-87 gm 1/2-3/4 ton trucks and 73-91 blazer,suburban and 1ton crew cab. They offer a wide range of interchangable parts. They share a transmission bellhousing pattern v6,L6,small&big v8. They can be bought fairly cheap,and are tough old trucks.
I would stick with a gas engine. The 350 IS the most common V8 ever produced.It has a strong aftermarket following. It can be set up to run on gas,alcohol,cng and lpg. You can make your own alcohol fuel and scavenge propane tanks if it gets too that. You can find magneto distributers that require no external voltage to work(just a hill). 
A Cold diesel will not coast start. The glow plugs need to heat up first too start. So if the battery is dead ur stuck. This may not be a problem in the southern states with warmer climates.


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## Tirediron

DRUNKnMONKEY said:


> If your set on building a bov,I would recommend 73-87 gm 1/2-3/4 ton trucks and 73-91 blazer,suburban and 1ton crew cab. They offer a wide range of interchangable parts. They share a transmission bellhousing pattern v6,L6,small&big v8. They can be bought fairly cheap,and are tough old trucks.
> I would stick with a gas engine. The 350 IS the most common V8 ever produced.It has a strong aftermarket following. It can be set up to run on gas,alcohol,cng and lpg. You can make your own alcohol fuel and scavenge propane tanks if it gets too that. You can find magneto distributers that require no external voltage to work(just a hill).
> A Cold diesel will not coast start. The glow plugs need to heat up first too start. So if the battery is dead ur stuck. This may not be a problem in the southern states with warmer climates.


you might want to learn a little more about diesels, direct injection engines don't have glow plugs, BT cummins start in pretty cold conditions, then there is all of the starting aids that you mentioned to feed the SBC which will help fire astubborn direct injection diesel.


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## Startingout-Blair

If someone plans to travel a long distance to their BOL, then it would be smart to create rest and restock points along the way. One way is to just find out of the way areas and hide your equipment. Another is to make plans with others along the way and (trusting them) store equipment and supplies at their facilities. This would take a large amount of trust in the others, but it can be done. Not only food and water can be stored, but guns, ammo, fuel, and even vehicle parts and equipment. Just a thought.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> direct injection engines don't have glow plugs, BT series Cummins start in pretty cold conditions.


Correct. My 4BT Cummins starts on the VERY FIRST compression stroke every time when above 40 degrees, and on the second compression stroke below that. I have NEVER had a "Ch ch ch ch" situation where I am cranking and cranking and not starting. Just touch the key one time and it is running. I also start it every once in a while rolling down a hill... in third or 4th gear it is no problem at all. Lights right off.

It also needs no electricity to run after being push started.


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## DRUNKnMONKEY

I'll agree the cummins is the best diesel. If money was not a problem,A cummins would be at the top of my list. BUT a cummins powered truck cant be bought or built for less than $2000. A gas powered truck can be bought dirt cheap and be lightly built for $2000.


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## Tirediron

An excellent point, a mag or points should make them emp proof, personally I just keep a bunch of HEI modules too, I dont think the hall effect switch would be damaged so a module change should get an Hei running again, cause "modern plug wire won't last long behind points or a mag.


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## LincTex

DRUNKnMONKEY said:


> A cummins would be at the top of my list. BUT a cummins powered truck cant be bought or built for less than $2000.


It depends on when opportunity strikes.

I bought a 1993 D250 extended cab longbed 2WD with a broken Getrag G360 transmission for *$400*. Everything under the hood was perfect. It was in the guy's yard with a bunch of other stuff and the city gave him an ultimatum on getting his yard cleaned up. He needed it moved FAST. If the trans wasn't broken I could have drove it home!


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## DRUNKnMONKEY

He needs to buy/build a bob now. Not set around and wait for opportunity to knock. I hope opportunity comes his way ASAP! But we need to be realistic. 
A non-perfect bov is better than no bov! If your worried about certain electrical parts getting fried, build a fairaday box and stock it with spares.


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## Tirediron

It would be hard to build anything cheaper or with more interchangeable parts than the '73 to '87 chev (subs and K5 to '91) the only pain is the different trans out puts and driveshaft lenghts. Don't be giving Cummins too much credit for thr BT series, Case designed it based on the 34 series cat


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## DRUNKnMONKEY

The best way around drive shafts and output shaft differences is to pick a certain chaise and stick to it. Blazer,suburban,short bed,long bed and crew cab long bed. Bigger isn't always better. The heavier the vehicle the stronger the drive line needs to be. A crew cab and Burb with anything less than 1ton running gears is breakage waiting to happen and it will happen at the worst possible moment. The front axle in 3/4tons have the same guts as 1/2tons. 
The difference is bigger brakes,and an 8 lug bolt pattern instead of small brakes and 6 lug. The rear axle is where the big difference in strength comes but that comes with the cost of ground clearance.


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## Tirediron

I was refering more to the transmission and transfer case difference, SM465 &205 is shorter than a TH350 & 205 ,and a TH400& 205 are longer than both. and then some people put single pattern flex plates on engines, crap like that, but the package is still the best swap wise and parts availability.
The Dana 44 & corp 10bolt front axle are strong enough torque wise for up to 35 inch tires at least. But a 14 / 60 combo is pretty much bullit proof up to a reasonable point.


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## COMEANDTAKEIT

I got a 66 goat with mechanical points, carb and fuel pump..... It will have to do


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## machinist

My ride for post-EMP is a bicycle--the most energy efficient ride I know about. I don't plan on going very far, so no engine is required. At my age and as awkward as I am, anything on 2 wheels with an engine is dangerous. 

It will do for going to our dairy farmer neighbor for milk and suchlike, using a bike trailer for small loads. I have a new bike and stashed plenty of spare parts, tires, tubes, and repair stuff. Have an EXTENSIVE shop and will build my own trailer with aluminum tubing and a plastic tote bin. Using 20" bike wheels, it should carry upwards of 100 pounds for the short distances I'm planning. 

There are some hills in our area, so I got a 15 speed that works out very nicely. It's a cheap bike, but I doubt if it gets as many miles in my lifetime as a kid would put on it in one summer.


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## LincTex

machinist said:


> At my age and as awkward as I am, anything on 2 wheels with an engine is dangerous.


I could put an engine on one of these!


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## machinist

LincTex,

That could work! Sort of an ultralite golf kart. Hmm. I'll think on that one.


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## GrinnanBarrett

My biggest concern for you is not the distance you have to travel but the population density you have to move through. That northeast corner of the US has over twenty five percent of our population living in it. That makes for tough movement. Even trying to move through West Virginia up is going to be very tough. Have you driven up there in bad conditions before like heavy winter? I wish you the very best. One thing you will need to consider is all wheel drive and ability to carry lots of fuel. Best wishes. GB


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## DRUNKnMONKEY

Why not set a bike to run on railroad tracks too? It would be an easy ride and could be traveled less conspicuously.


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## machinist

That would be good if there were tracks around here, but there aren't any where I would need to go. Thing is, I'm not really bugging out, just looking at something to get around this farming neighborhood. Bugging out is a whole 'nother thing. That has been well addressed in this thread.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> you might want to learn a little more about diesels, direct injection engines don't have glow plugs, BT series Cummins start in pretty cold conditions.


Yep, I am running 10% used motor oil in the fuel with just a little splash of Howe's (whatever the recommended dosage is) and she fired on the second compression stroke! Was 18*F this morning... no issues at all. I have an air intake heater grid, but have never used it.


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## chester50441

GrinnanBarrett said:


> My biggest concern for you is not the distance you have to travel but the population density you have to move through. That northeast corner of the US has over twenty five percent of our population living in it. That makes for tough movement. Even trying to move through West Virginia up is going to be very tough. Have you driven up there in bad conditions before like heavy winter? I wish you the very best. One thing you will need to consider is all wheel drive and ability to carry lots of fuel. Best wishes. GB


I agree. My new plan is a M35A2. Looking online I can find them for about $5000-$8000. It may take me a few years but that is my ultimate goal.


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## 65Covair

I just bought an M35A2, and I drive it to work on Fridays. I've named it my B.U.T.T. Big Ugly Troop Truck! My Butt is 8' wide and weighs 13,000 lbs. Don't stare at my BUTT, or I might have to set it on you : -)


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## zombieresponder

chester50441 said:


> I agree. My new plan is a M35A2. Looking online I can find them for about $5000-$8000. It may take me a few years but that is my ultimate goal.


They can be had for far less than that. I've seen them sell for as little as $500 in gov't auctions. Steelsoldiers.com(I think that's correct) is good reading if you're interested in them.

I suspect that the cheapest thing you'll find is likely a late 80's dodge with the 6bt diesel.


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## Beaniemaster2

Really happy with my old VW Bug... But then again I don't plan to bug out but you never know when you may have no choice...


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## chaosjourney

I have an older truck that I have bought EMP sensitive replacement parts for. Just the parts that would be necessary to make the truck usable. Junkyards are great resources for this. I keep all of that in my sealed steel can. Don't forget coil packs.


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