# Gold and Silver purchases?



## simpiano

Hi Everyone!

I'm a newbie to this forum and am very happy to have found you. I actually found this site when I read a book by Michael Kaye called Oh Sh!t - Book 1 - The Awakening. 

We have been "preparing" for a while. One subject that I have not been able to get a lot of information on is 1) should we purchase small denominations of silver and gold and 2) how do I do so without getting fleeced?

Any simple, straight forward information would be much appreciated. I'm a newbie and need to start slowly.

Thanks in advance!


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## Grimm

Michael is our very own Invision. Great guy. Smart but not part of the norm for this site. Most of us wish we had the disposable income he has. We still love him though. 

As far as buying gold and silver. It is all a personal decision. I can only afford to buy small amounts of silver- no more than an ounce or two at a time. I buy 90% silver coins in varying denominations from dimes up to half dollars and even Silver Eagles. Gold is not affordable for me so I stick with scrap gold jewelry when I can find it cheap.

Track the going rate for PMs with sites like Coinflation and buy your PMs from sites like the ones that sponsor here or other members recommend. Avoid deals that seem too good to be true.


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## BillS

I buy only junk silver. I buy that at providentmetals.com. I've looked around. I believe they have the best prices. Junk silver is old silver coins that are usually 90% silver and have no collector's value. A one dollar face value set of 1964 or earlier junk silver coins contains about .7 ounces of silver. That's the same amount whether it's 10 dimes, 4 quarters, 2 half dollars or 1 silver dollar.

I expect junk silver coins to be insurance against hyperinflation. I expect a collapse of the dollar to happen within the next two years. It could even happen this week if there's no agreement to raise the debt ceiling but I expect there to be.

I bought junk silver once I was close to fully prepared. There's no point in having $5,000 in old silver coins if you're not fully prepared.

If you have a 401k you should take the money out ASAP if you can. Even if you have to pay a penalty. Otherwise if it's in government bonds or stocks you'll lose almost all your money. I'd take the money and buy silver or gold.


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## Tacitus

BillS said:


> I buy only junk silver. I buy that at providentmetals.com. ...


Just went to their site and saw this, the Morgue Anne Dollar (took me a second):










I think I'll stick to junk silver.


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## Tacitus

Double post...first time that happened...huh.


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## invision

simpiano said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I'm a newbie to this forum and am very happy to have found you. I actually found this site when I read a book by Michael Kaye called Oh Sh!t - Book 1 - The Awakening.
> 
> We have been "preparing" for a while. One subject that I have not been able to get a lot of information on is 1) should we purchase small denominations of silver and gold and 2) how do I do so without getting fleeced?
> 
> Any simple, straight forward information would be much appreciated. I'm a newbie and need to start slowly.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hello! I am glad that my book brought you to this site... Around you are some _*very very very good people*_. It is where I hung out for a good six months before starting to interact with everyone.

First off, listen to what these guy say...

My own 2 cents - No matter what your income level is - you must eat, pay rent, provide for family, and have preps first and foremost - then look at investing in PMs. Investing in PMs is a good prep item, but it is farther down the list than Food, Water, Meds, guns & ammo, etc. Second, invest for a hedge against inflation - Best advice possible as BillS stated.

If your just starting out and have any disposable income to invest in PMs - then I would suggesting going after "junk" silver - pre-65 Quarters and Dimes. A good site to evaluate current price based on % of silver would be http://cointrackers.com/is-my-coin-silver.php - also part of your preps - find pages on the internet or a physical book that explains the amount of silver in these coins and their weight in silver - so if you need to barter with them you can easily pull it out as backing for your silver.

I started out with Dimes, Quarters, then after I felt that I had enough on hand - $100 face value of each - I then moved to Silver Eagles. I buy Silver Eagles at the end of the month - the highest I bought silver was at $27 per ounce, the lowest $17 per ounce. So you need to be prepared at first to ride the roller coaster, then as you gain experience, you can guess when it is going to come down some and you can buy lower than 4-8 days ago.

I do buy Gold, I prefer South African K's, why? Just because my mom has had one since I was a child, and when I moved to Atlanta, it was the first thing she handed me and said "wear it when you travel under your shirt. if you get robbed, most likely they won't see the chain, and you can walk into any bank and exchange it for US dollars."

As for finding where to buy - Gainesville, Provident, Ebay, local stores... I have bought from all of these sources. The best is to find a local dealer (IMO) after buying from them several times, they will go ahead and cut you good deals. Some local dealers are pawn shops and the "we buy gold" places... if you have a smartphone - download the Kitco app - put the widget on your phone - that way if your dealing local, you can beat them on the spot price...


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## invision

Grimm said:


> Michael is our very own Invision. Great guy. Smart but not part of the norm for this site. Most of us wish we had the disposable income he has. We still love him though.
> .


Grimm - Thank you for the kind words... but have I ever been NORMAL???? :eyebulge:


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## Grimm

invision said:


> Grimm - Thank you for the kind words... but have I ever been NORMAL???? :eyebulge:


By society standards non of us are normal. 


I still laugh when I look back at my first few months here. Everyone thought I was a man. How is THAT for _normal_.


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## Geek999

PM would only be relevant in some scenarios and then would only be of use once recovery was starting. As a result, it is well down the list of preps. You would probably be better off with excess preps that could be used as trade goods.

However, if you are set on doing this as a prep, then don't worry about getting fleeced. The price will go up, and down no matter what price you buy it at. However, you won't be selling unless the world falls apart. If you don't sell, you won't have a loss.


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## LincTex

invision said:


> Some local dealers are pawn shops and the "we buy gold" places... if you have a smartphone - download the Kitco app - put the widget on your phone - that way if your dealing local, you can beat them on the spot price...


Hmmm... that's a nice little tidbit! Thanks!


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## BillS

Geek999 said:


> PM would only be relevant in some scenarios and then would only be of use once recovery was starting. As a result, it is well down the list of preps. You would probably be better off with excess preps that could be used as trade goods.
> 
> However, if you are set on doing this as a prep, then don't worry about getting fleeced. The price will go up, and down no matter what price you buy it at. However, you won't be selling unless the world falls apart. If you don't sell, you won't have a loss.


They're very useful once inflation gets out of hand but the collapse hasn't happened yet. They could make the difference between having enough money to buy food and having to eat your stored food. If your weekly food bill is $100 and you have $5,000 in silver today, you should have a year's supply of food money regardless of what happens to food prices because your PM's should rise at least as fast as food prices.


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## Geek999

I agree. The best use of PM is in the event of serious inflation without TEOTWAWKI. I think that is actually a realistic scenario, but you can buy a PM ETF through a discount broker like Schwab and have lower transaction costs than if you buy physical metal. This would be the easiest way to deal with something like Jimmy Carter style inflation.


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## Tacitus

Geek999 said:


> ...you can buy a PM ETF through a discount broker like Schwab and have lower transaction costs than if you buy physical metal.  This would be the easiest way to deal with something like Jimmy Carter style inflation.


I looked it up because I didn't know. A "PM ETF" is a precious metal Exchange Trade Fund:

"An exchange-traded fund (ETF) is an investment fund traded on stock exchanges, much like stocks. An ETF holds assets such as stocks, commodities, or bonds, and trades close to its net asset value over the course of the trading day. ..."

More at the links:

ETFs (Wikipedia)

Commodity ETFs (Wikipedia)


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## bigg777

Here is an update on buying PM, yesterday 10/15/13, I withdrew funds from savings to go purchase "junk" silver. I went to 2 different coin & PM sellers and 2 of the "We buy Gold" type locations. There wasn't any "junk" silver available at 3 of the places, so I bought 3 - 10 oz. silver bars at one coin dealer. He also had 1 - 100 oz. silver bar and about 12 collectible .999 Babe Ruth coins.

I set up a meeting on Thurs. with the other coin dealer, who said he had "junk" silver available but is usually only open on Fri. & Sat. at an Amish farmer's market.

When it comes to paying commission on silver coins & bars, anywhere from $1 - $2 per ounce, over market price for junk silver & generic bars, to $2 - $4 per oz. for stamped (Englehard, etc.) bars & rounds, to much more for Mint uncirculated coins & collectibles.

Good luck finding your gold & silver!


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## simpiano

Thanks so much for this great information. We have been prepping for about 2 years now. We have out together a small group of 6 so far. We have inventoried all our supplies including food, water and water source, gins, ammo, medical. Etc. We meet once a month to review and discuss. I will be checking in here often! God bless.


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## Geek999

Tacitus said:


> I looked it up because I didn't know. A "PM ETF" is a precious metal Exchange Trade Fund:
> 
> "An exchange-traded fund (ETF) is an investment fund traded on stock exchanges, much like stocks. An ETF holds assets such as stocks, commodities, or bonds, and trades close to its net asset value over the course of the trading day. ..."
> 
> More at the links:
> 
> ETFs (Wikipedia)
> 
> Commodity ETFs (Wikipedia)


Exactly. The ticker symbol for silver is SLV and for Gold GLD. There also variations like Gold Miners, general commodities funds, etc. Note that none of these is useful if SHtF, but for something like Carter era inflation they are convenient and liquid.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> Note that none of these is useful if SHtF, but for something like Carter era inflation they are convenient and liquid.


Until the countries that hold physical gold in reserves begin to demand their physical bars be delivered to them.


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## Geek999

LincTex said:


> Until the countries that hold physical gold in reserves begin to demand their physical bars be delivered to them.


Well, the ETFs will not be making physical deliveries as they are not leveraged.

However, if your point is that one can lose money on PM investments, that is true whether you hold it physically, use an ETF, or aany other way you can find to invest in PM.

Since we've been talking about inflation, it is worth noting that in the context of deflation PM prices would be expected to drop.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> Since we've been talking about inflation, it is worth noting that in the context of deflation PM prices would be expected to drop.


Curious, that. 
All the people who bought silver at $37 are prob kicking themselves right now and wish they hadn't. However, I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why silver is as low as it is right now??


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## BillS

I wouldn't buy an ETF now. They're way oversold. There's so much overleveraging in paper metals. I expect at some point they will be found out and they will become worthless.


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## BillS

Geek999 said:


> Since we've been talking about inflation, it is worth noting that in the context of deflation PM prices would be expected to drop.


We're not going to have a depression like in the 1930s when the money was sound. We're going to have a hyperinflationary depression. All the money printing will lead to hyperinflation. It will be a lot like Weimar Germany in the 1920s. Expect rapid and extreme price increases. Expect a loaf of bread to go from $2 to $20 to $200 to $2000 and so on. As the dollar dies you can expect commodity prices to skyrocket. I expect the prices of PM's to rise with the rate of inflation and even faster than that as panic buying of PM's starts. One of the big questions is when grocery stores close because they're overrun by people filling their carts and rushing for the exits because they don't have any money. I wonder if some grocery stores will have armed guards and you'll have to show enough money, silver, or gold to get in.


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## Geek999

BillS said:


> We're not going to have a depression like in the 1930s when the money was sound. We're going to have a hyperinflationary depression. All the money printing will lead to hyperinflation. It will be a lot like Weimar Germany in the 1920s. Expect rapid and extreme price increases. Expect a loaf of bread to go from $2 to $20 to $200 to $2000 and so on. As the dollar dies you can expect commodity prices to skyrocket. I expect the prices of PM's to rise with the rate of inflation and even faster than that as panic buying of PM's starts. One of the big questions is when grocery stores close because they're overrun by people filling their carts and rushing for the exits because they don't have any money. I wonder if some grocery stores will have armed guards and you'll have to show enough money, silver, or gold to get in.


Then you should convert to any stable source of value, PM, sound currencies, preps, etc.


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## Tacitus

LincTex said:


> Curious...I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why silver is as low as it is right now??


I second that. I don't understand it.

Yesterday I swung buy my local coin store and picked up some junk silver at $17.50 per $1 face value...which was about $2.25 over spot. All dimes; some Mercury.

$1 face silver = .72 oz silver
Spot = $21.20/oz.
Spot value of $1 face value junk silver = $21.20 * .72 = $15.26
Bought at $17.50

I thought that was a great deal. Wish I'd been able to buy more. Will probably gather some cash to buy some later this week if it remains steady around that level.


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## Geek999

A few months back a rumor made the rounds that Cyprus, perhaps followed by oter countries, would need to sell its gold reserves. That knocked down the price rather abruptly and they have not recovered since. Gold and Silver are clearly related so Silver went down in sympathy.

Depending on your views, that either presents you with a risk you don't want to take, or a buying opportunity.

Please note I am neither recommending nor discouraging PM investments. I am merely trying to respond to questions and comments here.


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