# A shtf group meet up make it happen group



## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

The core people in this form could start a network, off sight where if things go south we can meet up form up and be a well informed well prepared group...? just an idea?


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

A preparedness club/class would be nice, I'd worry if it got too big/too well known though. A colony of armed citizens would make the gov. kinda nervous, they might step in and do something.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

They are called MAGs (Mutual Aid Groups) and they are often infiltrated with federal agents posing as preppers to gain information for the Department of Homeland Security


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Lets not be too paranoid.
If you know the guys you are prepping with, eventually you'll know if they put in 40 hours at their work or not.
And frankly such groups are needed.
Just dont get too large,... _nothing_ over 10 guys and not talk too much about guns and never talk about anything illegal, especiallynot about any violent pre SHTF actions

Preparing for food shortages, civil unrest and blackouts is not illegal/

Some countys even have civil defense working groups


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

I'm not paranoid, I am realistic. Haven't you read that Survival blog was being tracked by the feds and SB moved their serves out of the USA for that very reason.

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/20...-caught-spying-visitors-prepper-sites-102321/

And often Federal agents will infiltrate a group that has no plans to do anything illegal or violent yet the agent will coerce or set members up so the feds can have a case and justify their budgets.

It really is sad that things have come down to this but there are so many documented cases of federal agents and LEO inside the most docile and law abiding groups and survivalist are on the radar big time!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Von Helman said:


> They are called MAGs (Mutual Aid Groups) and they are often infiltrated with federal agents posing as preppers to gain information for the Department of Homeland Security


Don't worry... despite currently being a federal agent, I haven't worked for DHS in about seven years.

As was said: don't be too paranoid. The only groups that DHS is concerned with are those suspected of terrorism, and there are enough preppers working in federal law enforcement to know the difference between a prepper and a terrorist.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Turtle said:


> Don't worry... despite currently being a federal agent, I haven't worked for DHS in about seven years.
> 
> As was said: *don't be too paranoid*. The only groups that DHS is concerned with are those suspected of terrorism, and there are enough preppers working in federal law enforcement to know the difference between a prepper and a terrorist.


Yea and the Jews thought they were just getting showers to get cleaned up


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Zman41 said:


> The core people in this form could start a network, off sight where if things go south we can meet up form up and be a well informed well prepared group...? just an idea?


When SHTF :shtf: Trust no one but your family and super tight friends..

and perhaps you will survive...keep your head down and your powder dry eep:


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Von Helman said:


> Yea and the Jews thought they were just getting showers to get cleaned up


Hahaha, it is entirely up to you if you wish to expend your energy being senselessly paranoid; I am trying to save you that wasted energy by giving you honest insight.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

It is indeed a sad day when some people want to get togather to talk about and plan for helping eachother. That we should even have to think about what the federal agencies will think or do. 

We should all be outraged at this. We the people shouldn't fear our government. What happened to being innocent until proven guilty?

I would like to find some people around missouri that are preppers. It would be great to meet in person and talk about plans and share information. 

It is a good thing to have friends around to help eachother as they are able to. No man is a island.

I have served my country (U.S. Navy). I have had family in every war clear back to the revelotion.... I swore a oath to protect the constitution and I will not fear the goberment.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Turtle said:


> Hahaha, it is entirely up to you if you wish to expend your energy being senselessly paranoid; I am trying to save you that wasted energy by giving you honest insight.


and yet you admit you are a federal agent and work for the federal government and I am suppose to take you word...

Oh the irony is just oozing through the internet connection on that one...

Again I am not paranoid, I am just a realist and will continue not to trust the federal government, federal agents or federal employees as I have seen too many times how the government and their wonderful employees have so greatly served the people they serve.

whats in the headlines today?

The 900,00- dollar tax payer paid party for government workers int he department on oversight spending?

The Secret Service prostitution scandal..

lets just leave it at that and agree to disagree and move on :beercheer:


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## Anvilandhammer (Apr 12, 2012)

Anybody in the mitten?


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Von Helman said:


> and yet you admit you are a federal agent and work for the federal government and I am suppose to take you word...
> 
> Oh the irony is just oozing through the internet connection on that one...
> 
> ...


I put it out there that I am a law enforcement agent of the federal government specifically to build a little trust; I didn't have to share that detail, but I did, so that hopefully my friends on here know where I am coming from and know that they can trust what I say. I probably know a little more about what is really going on than most anyone on this site; a lot of that I cannot share, but I will what I can. I've been on this site for a long time, and I don't think anyone has ever caught me in a lie.... because I don't lie. I will relay what I know as fact, unless I preface it with something to the effect of "my opinion is...".

I feel it is a little bit unfair to make the blanket statement that you don't trust anyone in the federal government. That would be like me saying that nobody who works for Chrysler takes any pride in their work because I owned one lemon. Or that everyone who lives in California is a loser because I have met few from that state who are losers. Or that every black person is a liar because I had one run-in with a guy who lied in court. Or that every professional athlete is a drug user because a few have been caught using steroids.

Yes, there have been a few scandals involving the federal government lately. But those sorts of things happen in private industry, as well, it just isn't as well publicized because there isn't the same level of sensationalism. A company that I once worked for had a few employees who were embezzling money and equipment to sell and using it to buy cocaine. They were held responsible, terminated, and charges were brought against them. There are scumbags in EVERY organization on Earth. The federal government is held to a higher standard (as it should be) but when you consider the millions of people who work either (directly or indirectly) for the federal government, we do a pretty good job of keeping the scumbags to a minimum. Yes, embarassments happen. But that doesn't mean every employee is bad. That's like saying that every prepper is an unstable, psychotic bomb-building inbred racist because a few are. The vast majority of federal employees are good people who love their country and take pride in their job and serving the people of this country.

Rant over. : )


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Turtle:

awesome post!!

Thank's for your eloquence


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

I'm glad you're back, Turtle!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Awww.... thanks, guys! You're gonna make me blush. 

The funny thing is, I actually just stood up in rollcall today and brought this very topic: with all of the negative press regarding federal law enforcement right now, we need to remember who and what we represent when we put on the badge. We need to be above reproach. We cannot be hypocrits, enforcing which laws we choose but refusing to comply when they are applied to ourselves. 

I just get tired of the entire federal government being painted in a negative light. The protection, administration, and operation of an entire country is a largely thankless and glory-free job. The vast majority of federal employees do our jobs because it is our way of supporting the country that we love.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I would just like to see a group of people getting together to share ideas. When I start talking with the few I know who are 'putting a little away', the general feeling is that they would sooner DIE than tell you what they have. Now, I'm not saying I want to take a look-see in their fruit cellar or anything, I would just like to bounce ideas off of them and get their input as to how much, what kind, which container, ammo....you get the idea. Yes, that's what this site is for too, but I'd also like to think that there was somebody out there somewhere that would open the gate if my family came knocking. 
People talk about bugging out, joining up....um, how do you know where to go? You can't feasibly just wander around the U.S. looking for groups and if you don't have a lakeside cabin in Idaho to go to you are almost worse off leaving than you are staying. 
We plan to stay put, but I would LOVE to know there's a couple of places we could run to if we needed to in a worst case scenario after TSHTF.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Man...I did not realize that I would blow it up in here like this...I just realize that there are areas that involve rebuilding that I don't know how to do and there might be areas your unsure of that I could help with...that's all I ment It is a sad day when the people of this country who are smart enough to be prepared for problems, are afraid to assemble, a constitutional right...I fought In in war so we could what friends of mine die in the same war so we could..God Bless American !!!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

The sad thing is that I know it has been tried a couple of times on this site to get some folks together for a camping trip and it has yet to pan out. I don't know if that is due to the paranoia of meeting people in person and removing the anonymity of the internet or if it is purely more evidence that you can't trust people that you don't know... I would like to think that it is more of the former than the latter, as I feel like there are a lot of good people on this site.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

I still think that setting up and meeting, getting groups established is a great idea there are strength in numbers. Just sayin


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Turtle I have nothing personal against you and you are probably a good person, but I just have an issue with your employer and their way of operating. 

I am sure during WWII Germany there were good people who worked as LEOs and military under Hitler but they were just made to adhere to the administration they served. And just because Hitler authorized and created the Volkswagen doesn't mean all of those cars are bad. 


This is where I will leave it because we seem to disagree. As Ronald Regan once said, The federal Government isn't the solution to the problem, they are the problem. 

let me also say that I am not "Anti-Government" (because some form of government is always needed) but I do not like what the US Federal government and military are doing and how they go about doing it. I would vote to replace the Federal government and do away with it but I would not be the type of person that would try to accomplish this by means of violence or anything such as an armed revolt. I'm just a simple farmer expressing my opinions one who dislikes even fighting traffic in a crowded city much less any bureaucratic. 

I will stay here on the farm and enjoy a simple life, but I will say that I personally believe that one day in my lifetime I will witness the federal government self implode under its own doing and the dollar will crash. At that time I will rejoice in "the beast" being humbled and brought down by Karma, but I will feel bad for all the people that will die as result of the ensuing riots, mobs, and deaths resulting from the lack of planning they failed to do while trusting that the faithful federal government would always take care of them. 

BTW I do respect you for mentioning you are a federal agent, as most wouldn't have the courage to do that openly on these type of boards and for that alone, I tip my hate at you.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Turtle said:


> The sad thing is that I know it has been tried a couple of times on this site to get some folks together for a camping trip and it has yet to pan out. I don't know if that is due to the paranoia of meeting people in person and removing the anonymity of the internet or if it is purely more evidence that you can't trust people that you don't know... I would like to think that it is more of the former than the latter, as I feel like there are a lot of good people on this site.


You bring up a very valid point. For me (I can only speak for myself) it's difficult for me to meet others simply because I live in such a remote rural area and I really don't have the desire to drive a few hours just to socialize.

I also try to set boundaries and try to protect those boundaries as they have served me well through the years.

I always hear the term "paranoia" used but I have to say caution is probably a better description to use than paranoia (in my case).

I have personally had people try to force their way on me or try to force their way onto our property with excuses they really wanted to go fishing or see things and I could just tell their motives were questionable.

My lifestyle is much different than 95% of the people on the board (not that I am any better, but rather just different) and because of that and my rural location I truly use the internet as my social contact to the outside world.

Like the real world, everything for me is a long arms length distance but I do enjoy a hand full of close online friends that I would invite out for a BBQ and we exchange regular emails with each other so I do allow certain people into my world.

In terms of the other people I share the boards with, well I consider them just fellow members of a social club or like students in the same school of life, but that doesn't mean I want BBQ with them.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Von Helman, I certainly take no offense and I do not take anything you said as a personal attack, and I appreciate your kind words.

I certainly can understand your viewpoint; I just want clarify that not everyone who gets a check from Uncle Sam is a badguy. As with anything, it is easier to villify a faceless enemy than to look someone in the eye and tell them that they serve evil. I do not blindly agree with everything that every branch of the federal government does, but I do support my agency and the work that we do. I wouldn't work here if I didn't believe in it. 

Do I think the government could use some of it's fat trimmed 
off? Absolutely! Even in my agency, with which I agree and support the mission, there is a ton of government waste. I spent my years between the military and my current position working in the corporate management field. I apply that mentality and experience to the government, and I see numerous ways to save time, money, and resources. As I agree with the mission, and know that the best thing for the country would not be to disband this agency, the best way that I can serve my country, my agency, and the people of the country, is by improving the situation from the inside. 

I apologize, as I know this has gotten away from the original point of the thread, but I sincerely felt that that needed to be addressed and explained.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

There have been a lot of members who met in their areas of the country. Most of us are spread too far apart to be of much immediate help to each other. 

We've met a couple of the other forum members in our part of the country, but it's at least a two-hour drive to any of them. We (My family)rely more on forming relationships with our neighbors because that's who we'll go through hard times with.

That being said... most of our neighbors are preppers and don't trust anyone, including each other.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle said:


> I put it out there that I am a law enforcement agent of the federal government specifically to build a little trust; I didn't have to share that detail, but I did, so that hopefully my friends on here know where I am coming from and know that they can trust what I say. I probably know a little more about what is really going on than most anyone on this site; a lot of that I cannot share, but I will what I can. I've been on this site for a long time, and I don't think anyone has ever caught me in a lie.... because I don't lie. I will relay what I know as fact, unless I preface it with something to the effect of "my opinion is...".
> 
> I feel it is a little bit unfair to make the blanket statement that you don't trust anyone in the federal government. That would be like me saying that nobody who works for Chrysler takes any pride in their work because I owned one lemon. Or that everyone who lives in California is a loser because I have met few from that state who are losers. Or that every black person is a liar because I had one run-in with a guy who lied in court. Or that every professional athlete is a drug user because a few have been caught using steroids.
> 
> ...


Turtle, I hear what you are saying and I agree that the majority of Gov. employee's are not the problem, the problems we are facing come from TPTB and the Fed. LEO's that are willing to carryout unlawful orders.

Do I believe that you are one that would blindly follow orders and stomp all over the rights of Citizens? Nope, I don't.

As you said, you have been straight up with us and you do tell it like it is. SO Bro, I will have to say that you are A-OK in my book and if it came down to it, I would cover your six. :2thumb::beercheer::2thumb:


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

oldvet said:


> turtle, i hear what you are saying and i agree that the majority of gov. Employee's are not the problem, the problems we are facing come from tptb and the fed. Leo's that are willing to carryout unlawful orders.
> 
> Do i believe that you are one that would blindly follow orders and stomp all over the rights of citizens? Nope, i don't.
> 
> As you said, you have been straight up with us and you do tell it like it is. So bro, i will have to say that you are a-ok in my book and if it came down to it, i would cover your six. :2thumb::beercheer::2thumb:


i'm in....


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

oldvet said:


> Turtle, I hear what you are saying and I agree that the majority of Gov. employee's are not the problem, the problems we are facing come from TPTB and the Fed. LEO's that are willing to carryout unlawful orders.
> 
> Do I believe that you are one that would blindly follow orders and stomp all over the rights of Citizens? Nope, I don't.
> 
> As you said, you have been straight up with us and you do tell it like it is. SO Bro, I will have to say that you are A-OK in my book and if it came down to it, I would cover your six. :2thumb::beercheer::2thumb:


OldVet, Rev... thanks, guys! I would gladly cover your six as well, and would be happy to have you guys on mine.:wave:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

Turtle, I was a Deputy Sheriff in a small county. that was years ago and I never hurt anyone or wrote a citation that did not result in a guilty plea or a conviction. I still have people who accuse me publicly of violating their rights and framing them and their relitives by planting dope in their vehicle , ect , addnausium.

That just goes with the territory. On the flip side I have people who appreciate what I did and have acknowledged it to me and that feels good. You know what you do and that is the only one who is looking back at you when you shave in the morning. As long as you can look that guy in the face , you are OK.

As for the Federal goverment monitoring what I do or the sites I visit, it is the same thing dad taught me before there was an internet. Don't go where you would be embarrised to be seen because someone will see you and don't write anything or say anything you don't want the world to hear because they will see or hear it.

Bill M


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## Alaskaman (Apr 6, 2012)

Well, anybody willing to drive up here, I'll buy you lunch. I'd love to meet more preppers around here. Alaska is a little different than any/every where else. 
We have a case currently going through the courts that involves a self proclaimed militia leader named schafer Cox. He kept flapping his lips about being a sovereign citizen that had hundreds of militias members at his beck and call. He is a very intelligent man without any sense.
Any way, Cox got into minor legal issues then told the judge he didn't have to answer to the law.
They sent two felons with multiple charges to get inside coxs militia.
The felons then helped the feds plant bugs et tc. Then try to engage others into conversations wherein they would incriminate themselves and others. Cox & Co have been locked up for nearly a year now. The state of Alaska dropped all charges because they (warrantless search) violated the AK constitution. The feds dropped nothing...they hold that the us constitution was not violated. We'll see. 
Be careful who you trust because the reward offered may be more than some can refuse. Both the felons they sent were looking at hard time but now they walk free and are in protective custody on our dime.
I am a first gen immigrant (my mom was ten when they immigrated) and one of the few family stories I've heard had my moms mother turn my grandfather, mom, and cousin in to the nazis for a few bags of food for her other child(6m old). Opa was apparently involved in the dutch underground and proudly showed the number tattooed into his arm. Trust but verify!!! Take it for what it's worth.


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## horseman1946 (Oct 19, 2011)

I, like Turtle, was federal employee, but am now retired. I worked 26 years as a federal underground coal mine inspector, along with four years active army and 17 years in the VaANG.

MSHA, the agency I worked for, has had its share of scandals, and all employees paid the price for the actions of a few. That is true wherever you are employed, our society, due mostly to the media, tends to paint with a very broad brush when it comes to scandal. While being completely honest during my employment, I have been accused and was investigated and cleared by the IG twice. In today's society you are guilty until proved innocent, and after it is over, you are still a little bit guilty in the eyes of the public. You are innocent of that particular crime/misconduct but surely are guilty of something and weren't caught.

Eleven years after retirement, I still get some of that crap from indivduals I know from the coal industry.

As a sidebar, the first year I was employed by MSHA, the coal industry had over 150 fatal accidents, the last year I worked there was less than ten. Using that as a measure, the government did some good.


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## horseman1946 (Oct 19, 2011)

I got off the orginial thread. I would like to meet some preppers from this area, some I know are close are jezcruzen and claymore, and maybe diego. I live in Virginia within 25 miles of Tennessee and 60 miles from the Kentucky line. 

I attend most of the local gun shows, there is one in Abingdon the first weekend in May. This is a new show, just getting started, but is growing. I also go to Kingsport for the Meadowview shows, which are outstanding. I mention the gun shows because that may be a good place to meet and get acquainted.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow never imaged that my simple idea had so many things involved in it....lol I do understand all the concern though.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

RevWC said:


> When SHTF :shtf: Trust no one but your family and super tight friends..
> 
> and perhaps you will survive...keep your head down and your powder dry eep:


 exactly right, old saying, you can trust your mother, but cut the cards anyway.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Man wish that part could be different ....


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Zman41 said:


> Man wish that part could be different ....


Sorry ... My family, my farm and my way ...

If you see what I mean ...


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

*Andi said:


> Sorry ... My family, my farm and my way ...
> 
> If you see what I mean ...


Lol. When I was growing up dad used to say that everytime I disagreed with how he wanted something done.


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## Autumnvicky (Mar 30, 2012)

Anvilandhammer said:


> Anybody in the mitten?


 I am, if you mean Michigan. 
New preppers could benefit from meeting up, hearing opinions and ideas bounced around.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

Zman41 said:


> Wow never imaged that my simple idea had so many things involved in it....lol I do understand all the concern though.


Yes I agree

Also my apologies if it seemed I was going off topic regarding undercover feds and the federal government in general but I mentioned these things as and although they are side issues, I felt they pertained to the topic of the thread in regards to meet ups.

To break it down I personally have three issues that prevent me from such "Meet & Greets"

1, the distance to such meets would be a few hours drive in both directions for me and therefor not conducive for me to try to establish any such long distance network unless it was over the internet.

2, I always try to practice caution and even after knowing people on line for some time I learned the hard way recently when someone I trusted betrayed my trust. IT reflects more on his inability to respect others but it also reinforced what I always believe regarding trusting too many people.

3, The fact that Federal Agents infiltrate such groups or meetings or pretend to be preppers just to establish contact. I am not doing anything illegal but at the same time I don't want to put myself in a position to be included in such shenanigans


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## PreparednessPronto (Apr 24, 2012)

There are several groups out there that have, because of "meet ups" over a period of time, puchased rural property together and subdivided it legally. Individuals are either building or setting up a spot for their camper, BOV or whatever. I know where they are and they know where I am. 

Trust is difficult to come by. "Tell me the truth always and I will learn to trust you. Lie to me once and I'll never trust you." Old Italian saying, I think...


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