# Ford 7.3 = what Chevy = what Dodge?



## Dakine

I'm looking to buy a truck (ASAP) and I want to make sure I avoid known offenders like the 6.0L fords at/after 2003, can anyone please help with quick tip guides on avoid these Chevy/Dodge engines/tranny etc?


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## 65Covair

I just bought an M35A2, and love it. So, I said that to say this, IMHO, I would stick with something pre-computer. So, in the Ford area, that would be a truck with the 351 motor. Plentiful parts, easy to fix, etc. Chevy 350 motor, same reasons, Dodge, 318 or 383. On the less obvious side the original SUV an AMC Eagle 4x4 wagon. Just saying...


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## Tirediron

Do you really need a diesel, they often math out more expensive to run unless you are loading them all the time.


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## Tirediron

the problem with pre ecm gassers is the poor fuel mileage and power compared to the later counterparts, for example the 5.7 vortec (350) made way more power across the whole range and burnt far less, about 1/2, the fuel. 
If you want a pretty reliable diesel pickup engine the later cummins 12 valve (6BT) with inline pump were pretty hard to beat, but the crappy wrapper (dodge pick up) was hard to take. the automatic transmissions of the 12 valve era needed a fair bit of improvement too.


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## zombieresponder

Dodge used the 12v(6bt) cummins until 1998. Halfway through the model year, they started using the 24v. I *think* all of the 12v engines were fully mechanical and electronics on them started with the 24v, but i'm not certain of it.

Don't buy an older GM diesel. AFAIK, the duramax is a good engine though. I don't know enough about the fords to comment beyond some of them were absolute crap.


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## 65Covair

I agree mileage can suck on older vehicles, but they are pretty much EMP proof. Look up future weapons emp. Second the m35a2 isn't a true diesel, thats why I like it so much. It can run on almost any petroleum product I can find. By design.


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## Balls004

What about an older Toyota diesel pickup? I don't know that they were ever real popular in the States, but they were pretty well bullet proof and easy to work on. Parts might be the downside today.


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## Dakine

Tirediron said:


> Do you really need a diesel, they often math out more expensive to run unless you are loading them all the time.


I'm not planning to load it as much as I want to be able to, and I want to be able to long idle it when I move out of the land of milk and honey.

its 57 and off/on raining where I am right now. It's 27 and snowing where I am going to go.

I'm preparing to leave behind a life that no longer exists, everything today is about making that easier and giving me a leg up!


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## Tirediron

zombieresponder said:


> Dodge used the 12v(6bt) cummins until 1998. Halfway through the model year, they started using the 24v. I *think* all of the 12v engines were fully mechanical and electronics on them started with the 24v, but i'm not certain of it.
> 
> Don't buy an older GM diesel. AFAIK, the duramax is a good engine though. I don't know enough about the fords to comment beyond some of them were absolute crap.


Now this is debatable, I personally have had great luck with GM 6.2 /6.5 engines, and have seen many more bite the dust, the 6.2/6.5 got excellent fuel mileage especially if geared right, but the hate dead idling (any engine does) 
Unless there were experimental 12 valves the 6BT 12 valves were full mech.


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## Tirediron

Dakine said:


> I'm not planning to load it as much as I want to be able to, and I want to be able to long idle it when I move out of the land of milk and honey.
> 
> its 57 and off/on raining where I am right now. It's 27 and snowing where I am going to go.
> 
> I'm preparing to leave behind a life that no longer exists, everything today is about making that easier and giving me a leg up!


If you have decided on a diesel truck, I would recommend a 6BT and a manual trans, the truck it comes in is a sack of crap, but the engine is solid, except for the "killer dowel pin" which is easy enough to prevent before it kills the gear train.


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## crabapple

Dakine said:


> I'm looking to buy a truck (ASAP) and I want to make sure I avoid known offenders like the 6.0L fords at/after 2003, can anyone please help with quick tip guides on avoid these Chevy/Dodge engines/tranny etc?


There is no = to Ford.


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## zombieresponder

crabapple said:


> There is no = to Ford.


That's right, nothing else sucks quite as much.


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## Marcus

zombieresponder said:


> That's right, nothing else sucks quite as much.


IDK, I recall some of the early 80s Chevy diesels made from converted 350s were the worst of all. It was even worse than the 4-6-8 Caddy engines which always got stuck on 4 cylinders.


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## cowboyhermit

We ended up with a few Duramax government motors trucks with Allison transmissions. While I never would have picked them, or paid for them at new sticker price, they have performed excellently. You can barely tell they are diesel, not something that I care about but others are impressed by the lack of any real smoke or noise. They have loads of power when needed, but are very reasonable on fuel as well. Transmissions are very nice, with decent engine breaking in "tow mode", and lots of gears. Suspension and truck overall drives almost like a car, but pulls as much (more) safely than one can really expect from a vehicle of it's size (2500 or 3500).

The trucks themselves (that we got) are way to fancy for my tastes, power everything, heated seats, sunroof, . But it hasn't ended up costing much so far.

Over 300 000kms on more than one of them now and still no problems. There was some some recall with the 4X4 something but it was nothing really, IIRC.

These are all pre-DEF B.S.

On the other hand we have had good luck with the Cummins in the damn Dodges, opposite end of the spectrum in terms of truck, tall, wobbly, clunky. In theory I like the motor better, less electric etc, in reality, we had some issues with it, minor but still. It doesn't start as nice in the cold, and it really SOUNDS and smells like a diesel, I can't imagine anyone mistaking it for a gas engine. Manual transmission again is a bit clunky but plenty of gears and reliable enough. I am MUCH more comfortable working on the Dodge though :dunno:

Haven't had a ton of recent experience with diesel Fords, we have some gas ones that have done more than any truck should and are still going strong, but ended up getting deals too good to pass up on the other makes.

ETA; As an example, I have it on good authority that someone just used a 2500 Duramax like mentioned to haul over 15000lbs of cattle to an auction when their other truck called in sick. That's 15000lbs plus the weight of a very heavy non-aluminum tri-axle stock trailer  I... I meant *they* luckily didn't get stopped to find out just how much the whole thing weighed. Pulled like a dream, up to highway speed as fast as you would want to with cattle in a trailer.


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## TimB

Friend of mine has an '04? or thereabouts Chevy 2500 Duramax. He routinely runs a 80-90% mix of used ATF in it and has for 5-6 yrs. now. I wanted to try it in my '06 Dodge 2500 w/ the Cummins but am a little hesitant. In an EOTW event I would definitely try it. It's my understanding that the older Dodges (98 1/2- back) and any other make w/ a low-pressure injection system will run off practically any thing petroleum-based (ATF, motor oil, etc.). 
You might research this a little bit to see if this helps in your decision.


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## Dakine

Thank you all for the replies, I appreciate the opinions!

The deal is just about inked, it's at 99.9 right now and should hit 100 tomorrow. After that I'll provide more details... It's a quirk, I hate to discuss a current deal until the contracts are signed.

about to start a new thread on diesel storage and most particularly as it applies to me converting some jerry cans from gas to diesel. hopefully that has good opinions and suggestions as well, and if all goes well, tomorrow I'll post link with the deetz on the new rig! 

ETA: I also reached out to buddy, who is Canadian, please don't hold that against him  he is most definitely deep in the auto industry and while he's a ford guy he reached out to a buddy of his that runs a diesel shop and got me some no shit real answers about what I should expect from those lines of the Duramax, mine isn't in the window of the head gasket problems, I'm buying a SOLID truck and I really can't wait until I get it home tomorrow. And then I cant wait until Monday when it rains and I'm gonna go mess up it's beautiful white paint job in a big mud puddle MUWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!


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## Dakine

I think from things I learned in my own research, if you are considering chevy, avoid the 2005 and prior years (please find where it started yourself) those engines are prone to head gasket failures, and its EXPENSIVE!!! like 35+ hours shop time to do the work. that's just labor! avoid those engines as much as you'd avoid the ford 6.0's on their various issues.


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## cnsper

I had an 84 GMC with the 6.2 in it and not a lick of trouble out of it. Well other than the injector pump going out but it did have 175k on the odometer when that happened.

As for Dodge, I believe it was the latter half of 93 when they put the computers in them to control the injectors. Latter half of 91 thru 93 if I remember correctly is when they put the intercoolers in them and before the computer introduction.


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## Viking

We bought our 1989 F250 SC 4X4 diesel new, actually for all the years we've had it we've only got a bit over 100,000 miles. Biggest issue was when diesel had the sulfur content reduced, we went through 5 injector pumps before getting a good one, thankfully all under warrantee. Being non turbo it doesn't have a lot of power but it loves a full load, I've had the truck loaded so the rear axle was heavily into the rubber bumpers, I figure that to be about 6,000 lbs., went across the scale with a load of firewood at over 11,600 lbs., the truck weighs 6,300 lbs. The frame is still straight, my biggest complaint is the thin body metal, especially the pickup box, if it wasn't for the bed liner the box would be trash. The only time we use the truck anymore is for building supplies and firewood, but at least we have it when it's needed. I wouldn't mind having one of the last mechanical injected Dodge 12 valve pickups, with a Bosch pump, I have that pump on our 1995 Cummins powered motorhome, 250 hp and 502 ft. lbs. torque running through a 6 speed Allison, love to have that in a PU.


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## Viking

Marcus said:


> IDK, I recall some of the early 80s Chevy diesels made from converted 350s were the worst of all. It was even worse than the 4-6-8 Caddy engines which always got stuck on 4 cylinders.


We had a 1983 Chevy Malibu with that converted Olds block, every last one I've ever seen ended up dead, one way or another. I pulled the original 5.7 diesel out of the Chevy and took it apart, all the wrist pin journals were hammered, the diesel I installed blew a rod, they were truly the worst of all.


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## Tirediron

cnsper said:


> I had an 84 GMC with the 6.2 in it and not a lick of trouble out of it. Well other than the injector pump going out but it did have 175k on the odometer when that happened.
> 
> As for Dodge, I believe it was the latter half of 93 when they put the computers in them to control the injectors. Latter half of 91 thru 93 if I remember correctly is when they put the intercoolers in them and before the computer introduction.


Dodge doesn't get credit for the Case designed cummins B series, the 5.9 6bt 12 valve Cummins was mechanically injected to mid 98.

GM messed the 6.5 up by using a poorly designed electronic distributor pump.
Both the GM 6.2/6.5 and the Navistar 6.9/7.3 IDI (indirect injection) {glow plug} engines were a throwback, industry hadn't used IDI for a decade when those engines hit the market. GM really dropped the ball trying to convert the oldsmobile 350 to a diesel. that left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mouth.


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## mojo4

It sounds like you already bought a truck but to answer your post stay away from the Ford trucks unless you get the 7.3 diesel. The 6.0 and the newest engines have had numerous issues but the 7.3 is tougher than a 2 dollar steak. The duramax has been great but stay away from the older GM diesels. The dodge engines are great but it's the rest of the truck that sucks. Too many cheap parts adds up over time. So I guess if you're buying something newer the Chevy has a great engine and tranny (make sure it's the Allison ) along with good quality truck with a great ride.


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## sbk12

cnsper said:


> As for Dodge, I believe it was the latter half of 93 when they put the computers in them to control the injectors. Latter half of 91 thru 93 if I remember correctly is when they put the intercoolers in them and before the computer introduction.


That is incorrect. It was the latter half of 1998 when the 24 valve came out. All of the 12 valves are fully mechanical other than the fuel shutoff solenoid on the '89-'93 engines. All that is required to make them all mechanical is gutting the solenoid and installing a manual fuel shutoff. Not hard.


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