# Decision on wood heat



## 4wdCountry

Propane heat is no longer an option due to price increases and market volatility. I'm looking at a Lennox Grandview 230, which will run about 5-6k after install. My neighbor says it's wasted money, that I should buy an Ashley (about 2-3kless expensive installed) from the local furniture store. I know there's gotta be some experience on here, and some opinions. Which would you buy? Is the increased cost worth it? For background, it's a two story 2100 sq ft home (1400 lower, 700 upper) built in 1995, well insulated, stove will go in a corner, piped up through the single story roof above. Looks to me like the Ashley would be less efficient?


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## ZoomZoom

Can you break down the costs for each? $5-6K does sound very expensive but it depends on how much is stove and how much is installation (piping, hearth... which needs to occur regardless of which stove you pick).

Personally, I don't like Lennox _but my experience is only with their furnaces so I don't know if the same is true for their wood stoves_. A lot of their components are proprietary so if you need to fix/replace something, you have to go through them at 2X the price of what the same part costs elsewhere. I also looked up their specs for the Grandview 230 stove you mentioned. It doesn't list BTU and things I'd consider standard equipment are listed as options (e.g. a blower).

You didn't mention which Ashley you're looking at but a quick internet search shows the company has been bought out by Martin Hearth and Heating. You'll want to be careful that the new ownership will be keeping the particular line and can provide parts if/as needed in the future.

It's something you're going to have for quite awhile. I'd look at other brands as well. I'm sure others will chime in with recommended brands. I've had great success with Lopi, Vermont Casting and Regency.

I see your location is SE USA so I don't know your weather conditions for when you'll run this stove. To give you an idea, each of my stoves is rated at 75,000 BTU's. With temps right around freezing, I can heat about 2300 sq/ft with one of them running and keep the house at about 66-68 degrees without the furnace coming on. If I fire up both, I can keep the house at the same inside temp to temperatures below zero outside.

If your furnace air handler as a fan option that allows you to run the fan independently, you may want to consider keeping the fan running to keep the heat balanced throughout the house.


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## 4wdCountry

Stove price with blower is right at 2700.00, with an additional 2000 for double wall pipe and install kit, 900 for labor, and travel time. 
The Ashley that he has (not sure which model, but it thermostatic controlled) cost him 795. Plus install. He says there is no large difference between the Ashley and the newer, modern Grandview. 
I just want the best option to cut our propane use.
I'm in middle tennessee.


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## LincTex

My house is about the same size as yours. i only heat the main floor, the second floor has its own HVAC system and really doesn't run very often.

I use a US Stoves APS1100B from Tractor Supply (TSC). I bought it used (only a couple of weeks) on Craigslist for $300. It will keep the main floor furnace from running, but we still need small electric space heaters in the bedrooms at the opposite end of the house to keep them warm. It still saves several hundred a month on electric heat costs.

I added a 6" flue liner to my brick fireplace chimney and have the wood stove in front of the fireplace, plumbed to the chimney liner. It works well.

I just use two layers of Hardi Board for a hearth.


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## moondancer

I have a lopi it's the best stove I've ever had my house is 2200 sq ft and it heats the house fine . It's in the back corner of the house so the front is cooler then the back but still the front stays around 63 . We hit -19 this year and in that the front of the house was 57 so still not bad . Back of the house is about 75 steady 


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## 21601mom

We are also looking at using the heat source that doesn't require (much) electricity, natural gas or propane. We currently have a fireplace in our single story 2000 square-foot brick house in NE TX, but the firebox does need a little bit of repair. My husband does not want to use the fireplace to burn wood due to the mess and concerns with respiratory issues. He is willing to consider a wood pellet insert for the fireplace. I would much prefer a woodstove, but the pellet insert is a compromise. 

Do people have thoughts on pellet inserts? If I can store enough wood pellets (few years worth) then it's a good deal both economically and otherwise, but would be interested in people's experiences. Looking at either a Quadrafire or Harman. Incidentally, they do require a small amount electricity to run. In the event of an outage we could run this off of a deep cycle battery or possibly a whole house generator ( once we get one).


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## hiwall

Or take that $6000 buy a couple more propane tanks and shop around in the summer for the best price and have them filled. I doubt if your wood would be free.


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## Woody

It sounds like you are looking to purchase a brand new, top of the line stove. What is wrong with getting an old Papa Bear, Mama Bear or some other plain cast iron monster to heat with? Heck, an old base burner from the last century will pump out some heat if properly attended to! If only heat is the issue I have seen and heard that the 55 gallon barrel stoves, doubles, will heat the heck out of a place. No, not the most eye appealing but get the job done for a fraction of the price. Yes, they are all safe if installed properly. EPA approved? Who knows what they base their standards on, follow the money.

If you are looking for a stove with living room appeal, go with whatever suits your style. If you are looking for heat, go with a 1/4" cast iron monster. When living in NE PA I have seen some monstrosities of metal that heated the heck out of un-insulted barns in the worst winters. We are talking open a window and leave the door open hot.

Where I am in NC I could not see spending thousands of dollars on a stove. Shoot, it is cold for a week, then you are thinking of starting the garden the next week! For the few REALLY cold days, shut off a few rooms and live in one or two for a few days.

I heated an 1856 farmhouse in NE PA with a 1800's cook stove for years. Yes, rooms in the house were COLD. When it got that cold I hunkered down in the kitchen. You would wake up ever few hours, when it got chilly, to build the fire again. It is all a matter of what you are after and your budget. If you, and your wife, want that pretty thing in the corner that looks good even in the summer, go for whatever suits your tastes. If you want something that will pump out some heat, get an ugly old monster. Check Craig's list, they can be had for nest to nothing.


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## TheLazyL

Woody said:


> ... plain cast iron monster to heat with? ...heat is the issue I have seen and heard that the 55 gallon barrel stoves, doubles,....


Evidently you are not married.


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## moondancer

If anyone has to buy there wood I don't see why ya would even burn wood isn't it just as pricy to buy would for a year as it is to pay for gas ( I don't know I'm really asking ) I have always burned wood but cut my own 


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## 21601mom

moondancer said:


> If anyone has to buy there wood I don't see why ya would even burn wood isn't it just as pricy to buy would for a year as it is to pay for gas ( I don't know I'm really asking ) I have always burned wood but cut my own
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Based on what I've read, the cost per BTU of natural gas or propane is almost double that of hard wood (little less for wood pellets). There's probably some variation based on efficiency of the wood burner, e.g., Fireplace, wood stove, etc., but wood by the cord is typically far less expensive than gas (at least in MD).


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## GaryS

I heated my 1800 sqft house in the Pacific NW for more than ten years with a Fisher Mama Bear. It sat in one end of the house and kept every room comfortable except one back bedroom. I used the fan from the heat pump to help circulate air when it got cold. While the heat pump was useless at low temps, the fan did help keep the heat more even.
What I loved about the Fisher was the double deck that allowed you to cook at one level and keep things warm on the other. During a severe three day windstorm that took out all power for miles, that little Fisher served hot meals for the local police force as they had no cooking facilities in the station, even though they had an emergency generator.

The last few years, the feds made it difficult to get firewood from the national forest, so I burned mostly Presto Logs. I'd burn 6-8 cords a year as the price was comparable to buying fir or alder, and I didn't have to split it.


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## k0xxx

hiwall said:


> Or take that $6000 buy a couple more propane tanks and shop around in the summer for the best price and have them filled. I doubt if your wood would be free.


I'm sure it depends on your area, but at least in ours wood heat is CHEAP. Even if I had to buy all of my wood, based on the amount that I use, it would run about $250 to heat our home for the entire winter. It is a lot more work and it can be a mess, but at least for us the savings are worth it.


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## 4wdCountry

Great responses, and I'm paying attention. I like the idea about barrel stoves, old iron monsters, etc, but the missus (AKA She who MUST be obeyed!) thought I'd lost my mind when I debated buying a 25 year old Buck my FIL had for sale. This gal is a goodun, but not THAT good. So, tonight we had a debate. It'll continue tomorrow. Looks like she's sold on the pretty, EPA cert. stove. For the record, wood is MUCH cheaper than propane here, and more importantly, I don't have to worry about our government exporting all of it to China, at least for awhile. I can cut it, I can haul it, or in a pinch, I can buy it. I think I'll still come out ahead of LP gas. Thanks for the guidance, y'all. Will let you know how it turns out.


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## Woody

TheLazyL said:


> Evidently you are not married.


And never have been. Couldn't find a woman to put up with a large garden and an ugly woodstove!:-})

You have function then you have curb appeal. The old Fisher's were workhorses, still are. The Vermont Castings are works of art! Pretty and functional! Go with what you can afford.

Remember the proverbial words. If mama ain't happy, no one is happy!


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## TheManComesAround

Our home is primarily heated with Oil and forced hot water. I back it up with a Coal Stove in the Basement, and wood. There's a wood fireplace in the LR, but they're very inefficient. My plan is to either fix the Mama Bear the PO left in the Basement (needs new fire brick, and for the door latch to be replaced), and to move the coal stove to the fireplace opening and plumb it all in (it's a beautiful piece), or else, keep the coal stove in the basement, and insert an old Franklin wood stove I picked up years ago into the fireplace opening. 

Here in the woods of New Hampshah, it's been pretty darn cold lately. I find as long as I keep the Coal going, and the Thermal Mass of the house stays warm, I keep the whole house (single story, about 1,500 sf) in the mid 60's just by keeping the basement door open. For me, the coal/wood combination does a couple of things. In my area it's definitely about 40% cheaper than Oil. Last year was even cheaper because I found someone on Craigslist who gave away a ton of bagged coal, cleaning out his Garage! 

I also like the security of having 3 ways to heat, depending on what happens. Granted wood is the MOST renewable and arguably available option of the 3, but a couple of ton of coal set aside in the Garage would keep things going for quite a while. If things get REALLY dicey, in addition to more portable methods of cooking, I also have an Antique Glenwood Cookstove that will fire both Coal and Wood that would replace the setup in the basement.


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## lazydaisy67

If you have a finished basement and a forced air system you could blow the heat through the vents to every room in the house. If the electricity goes out you'd have a cold main floor but your basement would stay nice. 
Lots of folks around here who hastily tore out their wood stoves are now lamenting that decision. SO MANY people are struggling to fill their propane tanks where as a couple of years ago, they were positively giddy about the low price while we struggled to fill our heating oil tank. For the last two winters we've had our wood stove and gone without any fuel. Our house is a 2 story, 100 yr old farmhouse and the upstairs is COLD, so on the worst nights ( -39 windchill) we throw a mattress on the floor next to the stove and we all snuggle up together. It's kind of nice, actually.


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## tooltime

I have a manufactured house with hvac and a fireplace (which sucks). I have made a appointment with a guy to come out and look to see if a wood stove will work. I thought he said he would call today but did not so i will wait till wed to see if he does before lunch. If not i will call him. He builds stoves and inserts. The stoves looks like papa bear etc types stoves. I am looking forward to getting one (hopefully) as the power bill is $290.00 next month


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## Coastal

moondancer said:


> If anyone has to buy there wood I don't see why ya would even burn wood isn't it just as pricy to buy would for a year as it is to pay for gas ( I don't know I'm really asking ) I have always burned wood but cut my own
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


I have natural gas everything in my house, I am switching to wood for heating if an earthquake or whatever hits and the natural gas pipelines are damaged.

Nice to have a backup!


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## moondancer

Coastal said:


> I have natural gas everything in my house, I am switching to wood for heating if an earthquake or whatever hits and the natural gas pipelines are damaged.
> 
> Nice to have a backup!


My back up heat is a second wood stove in the garage lol . I love my wood heat and love to cut and split wood my wood pile is in a three year rotation one shed I heat with one shed is drying and I'm filling a third shed and I just rotate every year . It took me quite a few years to get built up to that

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## Woody

Cold??? That ain't cold. Why, back when I was a youngster in NE PA it got so cold you would have to write notes to each other outside. If you tried to talk the words froze and fell to the ground.


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## LincTex

GaryS said:


> so I burned mostly Presto Logs. I'd burn 6-8 cords a year as the price was comparable to buying fir or alder, and I didn't have to split it.


Did a search on the 'net... Wow, $1 EACH at Lowe's ($6 for 6)

No thanks


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## GaryS

LincTex said:


> Did a search on the 'net... Wow, $1 EACH at Lowe's ($6 for 6)
> 
> No thanks


Yes, I'm sure the price has gone up a lot since I used them for heat. At the time, there were sawmills all around us, as well as a couple of places that made sawdust logs, so they were not expensive. FWIW, small quantities of split firewood are also very expensive at the big box stores.

I could bank the stove with two Presto logs and they would burn all night, or I could fill the stove with four or five large alder pieces to do the same, so by volume, I'd burn at least twice as much wood as man made logs.

I also misstated the amount I used in a season. I would buy 6-8 pallets a year and if I remember correctly, a pallet was about half a cord.


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## oldasrocks

Forget wood. Follow the advice above that suggested buying an extra propane tank and fill them in the summer when the price is down. Wood is expensive too and will get more so.

I have 2 -500 gallon propane tanks I fill about every 1 1/2 yrs when the price is down. I paid $1.64 last yr Propane is $5.49 now but will come back down.

Don't panic just because its high now.


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## 21601mom

oldasrocks said:


> I have 2 -500 gallon propane tanks I fill about every 1 1/2 yrs when the price is down.


I'm sure this is a dumb question, but are your tanks buried or above the ground?


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## k0xxx

oldasrocks said:


> Forget wood. Follow the advice above that suggested buying an extra propane tank and fill them in the summer when the price is down. Wood is expensive too and will get more so.
> 
> I have 2 -500 gallon propane tanks I fill about every 1 1/2 yrs when the price is down. I paid $1.64 last yr Propane is $5.49 now but will come back down.
> 
> Don't panic just because its high now.


As has been stated several times, it depends on where you live. Locally cut, delivered, and stacked wood is bout $90 - $100 per cord, and we burn about 2 1/2 cords a season. We can easily run through 350 - 400 gallons of propane to heat with the central unit for the winter.

We cut our own on our property, but in southern rural areas, it's very easy to find wood cheaply.


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## LincTex

I have never added up my time, gas, oil, chainsaw, etc. to get an exact number, but I can do some quick math in my head. For every $100 on electric heat saved, we burn about $15 on wood (paying myself $10 an hour and using 1 gallon of gas)... it's probably a little higher than that.


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## LincTex

21601mom said:


> I'm sure this is a dumb question, but are your tanks buried or above the ground?


When you move to Texas you will find that 99% of the tanks are above ground


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## Tirediron

wood is a lot easier to barter for too, while propane is a great fuel there are few people who want to trade you a load of propane for something that they need.


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## LincTex

k0xxx said:


> wood is bout$100 per cord, and we burn about 2 1/2 cords a season.
> 
> 400 gallons of propane to heat with the central unit for the winter.


wood: 100 x 2.5 = $250/winter
propane: 400 x ~$3.15 = $1260/winter

about 1/5 cost... that's pretty close for me, If I round up to $20/wood for each $100 in electricity it's also 1/5.



Tirediron said:


> wood is a lot easier to barter for too, while propane is a great fuel there are few people who want to trade you a load of propane for something that they need.


Same here, if I need to barter I will gladly give you some prepared wood, but you will never get my propane in a trade!


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## 21601mom

LincTex said:


> When you move to Texas you will find that 99% of the tanks are above ground


The i will definitely start trying to persuade my husband to have a wood stove installed, rather than LP or wood pellets. The cost differences you outlined are far more significant than I anticipated;even more reason to choose a wood stove!

Btw, trailer is loaded and I pull out tomorrow around 5pm for the drive to TX!! So excited!


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## Viking

I've seen a number of EPA certified wood stove cat systems in stores that were in horrible condition and asked them about what happened and they've all told me they have a short lifespan. That's really a big PITA concerning how much these stoves cost. We have a Mountain Home wood stove we bought years ago, it's small but with 1/4" steel body and 5/16" doors it's very heavy and it heats over 1,300 sq. ft. to the point we sometimes have to open a window a bit even at 10 degrees. I insulated our home the best I could and the North wall is double insulated so we get by with one to two cords per winter depending on wither it soft or hardwood.


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## k0xxx

21601mom said:


> The i will definitely start trying to persuade my husband to have a wood stove installed, rather than LP or wood pellets. The cost differences you outlined are far more significant than I anticipated;even more reason to choose a wood stove!
> 
> Btw, trailer is loaded and I pull out tomorrow around 5pm for the drive to TX!! So excited!


Check into the price for wood locally, from several sources, before buying. It can vary quite a bit. I have friend that have to pay $225 and sometimes more per cord. If you can cut your own, it's an added bonus.


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## GaryS

The heat and drought the past couple of years have killed millions of trees in TX. I lost several on my one acre lot, but with no stove or fireplace I ended up burying them. None of the neighbors wanted the wood because they also lost trees, so there is a glut of standing dead and fallen trees all over the state. 

I even had to pay $75 for a tree cutter to remove one large oak that was next to the road and needed to be climbed and trimmed before it could be brought down safely without damaging anything and blocking the road.

One problem here is that most of that wood will be useless in another year as insects will turn it to mush. If it would last, people with wood heat would have enough free wood to last several years.


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## LincTex

I have never bought wood. 
I always take a sick day at work after a big windstorm, because I am running around cutting and hauling as fast as I can! I also place ads on Craigslist asking for trees people don't want, and I usually get lots of replies.

There are woods you don't want to bother with - - and for me it's Hackberry. I can get all I want around here, but it is NOT worth the hassle and trouble. It takes forever to dry, attracts tons of bugs, and then it isn't even good wood to burn. I can always send pics of what it looks like, its distinctive bumps on the bark give it away. I hate the stuff. Anything else that grows around here I will burn with no problems.


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## 21601mom

Are there any types of wood that are particularly at risk of damage from insects? 

Here's the kicker, when we bought our house in Texas the previous owner had about a cord of wood stocked on the property. My husband decided since he didn't want to use the fireplace, that we should give it away. Most of it is now gone and we will need to repurchase or harvest.


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## LincTex

21601mom said:


> Are there any types of wood that are particularly at risk of damage from insects?


All of it is to some degree... but the harder the wood and the drier the wood, the better.

Bois d'Arc wood, when dry, doesn't seem to be eaten by anything. It's also as hard as steel.


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## Viking

With all the thick forests around us here in S.W. Oregon it's just natural that there are bugs that will infest most of them. The very best firewood here is Madrone, when dried fully it burns long and hot with the dampers closed almost totally, but there is a Japanese beetle that will eat the insides to a dust that looks like a stick of fireworks punk ( young'nes may not know what that is but it was a stick like an incense stick that would burn slow enough to set off a ton of fireworks), we also have a variety of oak that burns great but leaves a lot of ash, various firs that burn okay, various cedars, incense being the most prevalent of them and it burns pretty good without a lot of ash and then there is bull pine which is next to worthless, drys like its balsa wood and you can hardly keep it burning unless you have other good firewood along with it. We also have sugar pine but it's mainly in higher elevations, more of a loner type like 1 to a 1,000 in a forest. It probably burns good but it's usually harder to get to most times. The thing is around here firewood needs to be store off the ground and covered, if not mold will start rotting it from the bottom and bugs from the top. I have a woodshed that has a concrete floor and enclosed sides and the madrone firewood that I keep in it has lasted up to five years with no bugs or rot. Fir and other types of firewood that I can use in one winter are stacked on pallets and tarped.


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## Tirediron

Now I know why people live where there is real winter, pretty much any local wood will keep for years here, if you keep it off of the ground, diamond willow can be left on the ground for years and it is still good to burn, dead poplar isn't that great for heat production, but harvested poplar has some serious heat in it.


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## moondancer

Here ya don't use pines it make for flu fire . Poplar is only for kindeling it burn to fast for anything else . Our main wood for heat is red oak , honey locust . Hard maple and walnut but walnut burns dirty. It's interesting to hear what other locations use 


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## moondancer

UncleJoe said:


> For a lot of folks, evergreen (pine, spruce, fir, hemlock, etc) is the only type of wood they have access to. If it's *well* dried it can be used for heating. It burns very hot but doesn't last as long as hardwoods. I have some spruce in my wood stash but in general I use hardwood because I have such easy access to it.
> 
> When the weather breaks and I can get to them, I have 7-8 pines to take down. I'll split it, make a separate pile and allow it to dry for a couple years then burn it up. I'll mix it in with deciduous a little at a time. No sense in wasting it when it can keep us warm.


Yes very true I do burn pine but not in my house stove I use it in an outside stove I burn when I'm working out there splitting wood or skinning hides it's great to have a little fire to warm up by plus I keep a coffe pot on it . I use to just use a barrel but came accords a free stove on Craig's list

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## GaryS

I wouldn't put fir and hemlock in the same category as pine, which burns very quickly. My dad heated almost exclusively with hemlock in Montana, and it was a very good fuel. Before switching to Presto logs, I burned about 50-50 fir and alder, and while I preferred alder for splitting and drying quickly, both burned well.


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## Viking

When we lived in the mountains of Colorado about the only "Get you're own" firewood available was ponderosa pine, but compared to the pine here in Western Oregon it was great to burn. The only problem I ran across was that occasionally the growth fiber in the lower end of the logs was interlocked which made it very hard to split with a maul. We have alder around here but I seldom use it as madrone burns so much longer. When I was growing up in Washington alder was mostly used for smoking fish and meat.


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## tooltime

tooltime said:


> I have a manufactured house with hvac and a fireplace (which sucks). I have made a appointment with a guy to come out and look to see if a wood stove will work. I thought he said he would call today but did not so i will wait till wed to see if he does before lunch. If not i will call him. He builds stoves and inserts. The stoves looks like papa bear etc types stoves. I am looking forward to getting one (hopefully) as the power bill is $290.00 next month


I had a appt with a guy who builds them Thursday. I had not heard from him wed (he said he would call) and i called him. He more or less forgot about me. I had a guy come out for my roof and talked to him. He said my chimney is a 3 layered one and not made for consent heat. The woodstove still has not called me. I will call him and does anyone know if that is true about the chimney? If so this sucks.thanks


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## forluvofsmoke

21601mom said:


> We are also looking at using the heat source that doesn't require (much) electricity, natural gas or propane. We currently have a fireplace in our single story 2000 square-foot brick house in NE TX, but the firebox does need a little bit of repair. My husband does not want to use the fireplace to burn wood due to the mess and concerns with respiratory issues. He is willing to consider a wood pellet insert for the fireplace. I would much prefer a woodstove, but the pellet insert is a compromise.
> 
> Do people have thoughts on pellet inserts? If I can store enough wood pellets (few years worth) then it's a good deal both economically and otherwise, but would be interested in people's experiences. Looking at either a Quadrafire or Harman. Incidentally, they do require a small amount electricity to run. In the event of an outage we could run this off of a deep cycle battery or possibly a whole house generator ( once we get one).


My personal experience with pellet poopers is this: EXPENSIVE to use. We briefly rented a house that had one back in the late 90's. I hauled 1,200lbs of pellets home and it was gone in a month. Small house with fair insulation/windows/doors, about 900 sq ft main floor with basement. This was late fall, with temps in the 20-35* range, and little to no wind (unlike where we now live). If you were to be able to heat a larger home (well insulated 1,500 sq ft) with pellets through, say, for a 6-month heating season, with wind and average temps of 10-20*, you may need to have around 4 tons on hand, but maybe less, depending on stove efficiency and how energy efficient the home is. I haven't checked on pellet prices for years, but maybe $5/40lb bag??? Quick math tells me $250/ton, so around $1,000/year...

I'd still go with wood heat any day over pellets...I get a little workout splitting/stacking wood, too, if I have it delivered in block...just me. I haven't harvested my own for years, but could do that if the need arose...would have to haul it long distances, as we live in basically a tree-less area (not my idea of a good BIL), and that's why I've had it delivered.


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## Jason

moondancer said:


> My back up heat is a second wood stove in the garage lol . I love my wood heat and love to cut and split wood my wood pile is in a three year rotation one shed I heat with one shed is drying and I'm filling a third shed and I just rotate every year . It took me quite a few years to get built up to that
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Sounds like a great setup! I heat with an outdoor woodburner so my wood is just thrown in a big pile in front of the furnace.


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## LincTex

tooltime said:


> I had a guy come out for my roof and talked to him. He said my chimney is a 3 layered one and not made for constant heat. .... does anyone know if that is true about the chimney?


Sounds like that idiot was smoking crack. 
A triple-walled chimney is ideal and is the most expansive to buy.

I'd like to know what the hell he thinks would work better??!?!


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## TheLazyL

forluvofsmoke said:


> ...I haven't checked on pellet prices for years, but maybe $5/40lb bag??? Quick math tells me $250/ton, so around $1,000/year.....


If I could get my $2,500 LP bill down to $1,000 using wood pellets I would in a heart beat.

But then I'd also have to figure in the $10,000 for the wood pellet boiler and how to keep it filled as I age.

From the cost charts I'm seen Natural gas cost (in my area) equal wood pellets. All I have to do to switch to natural gas is convince the local utility to extend their gas line 2 miles.


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## woodsman23

forluvofsmoke said:


> My personal experience with pellet poopers is this: EXPENSIVE to use. We briefly rented a house that had one back in the late 90's. I hauled 1,200lbs of pellets home and it was gone in a month. Small house with fair insulation/windows/doors, about 900 sq ft main floor with basement. This was late fall, with temps in the 20-35* range, and little to no wind (unlike where we now live). If you were to be able to heat a larger home (well insulated 1,500 sq ft) with pellets through, say, for a 6-month heating season, with wind and average temps of 10-20*, you may need to have around 4 tons on hand, but maybe less, depending on stove efficiency and how energy efficient the home is. I haven't checked on pellet prices for years, but maybe $5/40lb bag??? Quick math tells me $250/ton, so around $1,000/year...
> 
> I'd still go with wood heat any day over pellets...I get a little workout splitting/stacking wood, too, if I have it delivered in block...just me. I haven't harvested my own for years, but could do that if the need arose...would have to haul it long distances, as we live in basically a tree-less area (not my idea of a good BIL), and that's why I've had it delivered.


Wood pellets mm. I heat with a pellet stove and would never go back to wood ever.... let's ,no bugs, no mess, no up and down heating, no stoking the fire, no splinters, no kindeling, just dump in a bag and then it's all set for at least 18hrs. clean it out every 2 weeks... propane here is 4.10 a gallon and wood is 75 a face cord.. pellets are 200 a ton iuse 3-4 tons a year...:2thumb:


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## timmie

i like my wood burning stove ,heater , and fireplace.besides , i'm cheap and they are paid for.


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## LincTex

timmie said:


> I like my wood burning stove, heater, and fireplace. besides, I'm cheap and they are paid for.


Fireplace is worthless... added a plate to the damper for a flu and put my wood stove there instead.

I have a pellet machine so I can make my own pellets. Just need to find a reasonably priced pellet stove.


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## cantseeme

Has anyone ever heard of a Rocket mass heater?


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## LincTex

cantseeme said:


> Has anyone ever heard of a Rocket mass heater?


Yes, we have discussed them at length at various times here.


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## Viking

cantseeme said:


> Has anyone ever heard of a Rocket mass heater?


Check out Russian Masonry Heater at motherearthnews.com/diy/building-a-russian-woodstove-from-brick-zmaz97onzgoe.aspx I happen to have an old Mother Earth News around that shows how to build one. We thought we might build one when we built our home but they take up a lot of room and need their own foundation due to their extreme weight. Great heater though because all you need is to burn one hot fire and the brick mass gives off heat for many hours afterword.


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## Viking

LincTex said:


> Fireplace is worthless... added a plate to the damper for a flu and put my wood stove there instead.
> 
> I have a pellet machine so I can make my own pellets. Just need to find a reasonably priced pellet stove.


After seeing a number of burnt out catalytic portions of pellet stoves at a few stove supplier stores and having never owned a pellet stove I'm curious as to who makes stoves that won't so readily burn out for long term. Seems like a lot of money to invest into something that can get expensive to replace parts or the whole stove just a few years down the line.


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## woodsman23

check these out

http://www.wisewaypelletstove.com/


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## Viking

woodsman23 said:


> check these out
> 
> http://www.wisewaypelletstove.com/


For crying out loud, this is only around 30 miles from where we live. Never heard of this before but then the Grants Pass/Medford areas are home to many unusual businesses often somewhat secretive until someone happens to run across them.


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## cantseeme

Has anyone ever considered building a rocketmass heater they use 1/10 the wood of a conventional wood stove to heat for a season and produce almost 0 smoke becasue they burn so efficent. Here is a picture of one.
















http://www.richsoil.com/rocket-stove-mass-heater.jsp


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## tooltime

LincTex said:


> Sounds like that idiot was smoking crack.
> A triple-walled chimney is ideal and is the most expansive to buy.
> 
> I'd like to know what the hell he thinks would work better??!?!


I have a manufactured home. think a wood stove will work if i use the chimney for the fire place. Have a pipe from the wood stove go to the chimney? If so a guy i have talked to builds them and installed for a total of $600.00. A neighbor just traded for a wood stove said he would trade the stove for a truck i have (trans is out). I am thinking about it but need to know if it would work thanks


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## LincTex

tooltime said:


> ... think a wood stove will work if i use the chimney for the fire place. Have a pipe from the wood stove go to the chimney?


First... what kind of chimney is in that manufactured home? Is it the triple walled one? Then you are good.

I had to put a flue liner inside my masonry chimney when I put a wood stove in my fireplace.


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## LincTex

woodsman23 said:


> check these out
> 
> http://www.wisewaypelletstove.com/


VERY cool.

I have been drawing and sketching ideas for a gravity feed pellet stove for a while but never welded one up. Nice to see someone had the same idea!


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## tooltime

LincTex said:


> First... what kind of chimney is in that manufactured home? Is it the triple walled one? Then you are good.
> 
> I had to put a flue liner inside my masonry chimney when I put a wood stove in my fireplace.


I have to get a new roof. A guy came out to look at the roof and has done wood stoves before. He said the chimney is a triple walled and it would not work bc it is not for constant heat. The guy who builds them has not come out or called me. He was suppose to come out 2 weeks ago and did not. I am going to call him this week.


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## forluvofsmoke

tooltime said:


> I have to get a new roof. A guy came out to look at the roof and has done wood stoves before. He said the chimney is a *triple walled and it would not work bc it is not for constant heat*. The guy who builds them has not come out or called me. He was suppose to come out 2 weeks ago and did not. I am going to call him this week.


Never heard of triple-walled pipe not being rated for continuous heat before...that's what it's designed for...unless it some kind of outdated pipe that has double-insulation and no vented outer shell. Otherwise, that is what triple-walled pipe is made for...solid fuel fired heating appliances, be it a pellet pooper, wood or coal. I'd have to question his judgement, if it were me...sounds like he wants to sell you some new flue pipe and installation...stuff's not cheap, either...was about $90-$100/3ft section when I installed a coal/wood burner in a small house we owned back in the late 80's. That was 8" triple-wall insulated and vented pipe, btw.

The original installation in our house was a kit fireplace with double-wall insulated, non-vented pipe...that garbage wasn't even up to building code when it was installed...no idea when the original home owner installed it or where he got it, but he got screwed...and I almost burned the house down with it one cold and windy night...treated cellulose blow-in attic insulation started smoldering and filled the house with smoke...the entire install of the cheap junk that was in that house was completely messed up...that was a rude 2:00 am wake-up, for sure...... That pipe never had smoke through it again. I ripped it out and crushed it so no one could use it if they tried to salvage it from the landfill.


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## oldasrocks

LincTex said:


> VERY cool.
> 
> I have been drawing and sketching ideas for a gravity feed pellet stove for a while but never welded one up. Nice to see someone had the same idea!


I've seem screw fed corn augers for a corn burning stove but never a gravity fed unit.


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## oldasrocks

LincTex said:


> Fireplace is worthless... added a plate to the damper for a flu and put my wood stove there instead.
> 
> I have a pellet machine so I can make my own pellets. Just need to find a reasonably priced pellet stove.


Where can I get a pellet making machine?


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## backlash

I just bought a pellet stove last Saturday.
$400 off Craigslist, in great shape and work really well.
The new pipe cost over $400 however.
I believe that in Washington state you can't sell used wood stoves unless they are Washington state approved.
In our other house we had a zero clearance fireplace. That was worthless.
Went to a pellet stove insert and that worked great.
The next step was to install a Natural gas insert.
That was by far the best. No pellets to mess with and NG is the cheapest heat available there.
Where we live now there is no NG available.
Propane is $3.40 a gallon and we have used 600 gallons this year.


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## k0xxx

oldasrocks said:


> Where can I get a pellet making machine?


I just did a quick search for pellet machines and came up with this.

Make Your Own Pellets

I'm sure that there are others.


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## LincTex

oldasrocks said:


> Where can I get a pellet making machine?


I got mine on ebay, looked just like this:


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## TheLazyL

oldasrocks said:


> Where can I get a pellet making machine?


And how do you make up the "mash" to feed thru it?


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## LincTex

TheLazyL said:


> And how do you make up the "mash" to feed thru it?


Mash? To make wood pellets?

Naww, you need sawdust and small wood chips. Old particle board works great. The waste from a woodworking shop can nearly go straight into the mill. You can screen the larger stuff off and pelletize the sawdust.

I have a Hammer mill type feed grinder and plan to use it to make more sawdust for pellets.


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## TheLazyL

LincTex said:


> Mash? To make wood pellets?
> 
> Naww, you need sawdust and small wood chips. Old particle board works great. The waste from a woodworking shop can nearly go straight into the mill. You can screen the larger stuff off and pelletize the sawdust.
> 
> I have a Hammer mill type feed grinder and plan to use it to make more sawdust for pellets.


Sawdust. Then what type of pressure would be need to force sawdust thru the extrusion process and bind it together?


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## LincTex

TheLazyL said:


> Sawdust. Then what type of pressure would be need to force sawdust thru the extrusion process and bind it together?


I don't know the psi but it is a LOT.

Some folks mix a little used veggie oil in the mix to act as a "binder" to keep the pellet solid. Sometimes a little water can work depending on the compound being pelletized.


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## moondancer

I don't think I would use particle board the glues in it are toxic


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## LincTex

moondancer said:


> I don't think I would use particle board the glues in it are toxic


Your pellet stove would never know the difference


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## moondancer

LincTex said:


> Your pellet stove would never know the difference


REALLY But your family breathing it in would


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## ZoomZoom

LincTex said:


> Your pellet stove would never know the difference





moondancer said:


> REALLY But your family breathing it in would


I'd strongly recommend you keep your family out of the woodstove firebox.


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## moondancer

ZoomZoom said:


> I'd strongly recommend you keep your family out of the woodstove firebox.


Lolol I do have German blood so gassing and burning ppl is in my DNA


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## LincTex

moondancer said:


> REALLY But your family breathing it in would


Hmmm.... hopefully your stove exhaust is vented properly to prevent that from happening!


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## moondancer

LincTex said:


> Hmmm.... hopefully your stove exhaust is vented properly to prevent that from happening!


I burn wood not pellets but we have all been outside and gotten down drafts and smell our burners . The glues in plywoods area toxic that's a known fact to burn them in a indoor stove is not a wise choice under any circumstances period end of story . If someone does do it it's Playing with a loaded weapon . To justify it by saying a stove is air tight or it won't happen to me shows a lack of knowledge


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## Viking

LincTex said:


> Hmmm.... hopefully your stove exhaust is vented properly to prevent that from happening!


 And hot enough because that can change harmful unburned gases in itself. Formaldehyde is a common toxin in chipboard, wafer board and plywood. It is often also found in carpet, furnature and plastic coatings like are on decorative wall panels. Many other things in your home may also contain it. Plastics in your vehicles off gas it as well, so all things considered burning those woods as pellets, I'd say, is the least of your problems.


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## LincTex

moondancer said:


> to burn them in a indoor stove is not a wise choice under any circumstances period end of story .


I think you either:
a) didn't read *exactly* what we have been typing, or
b) you are trying to change the subject, or
c) have never seen a pellet stove and aren't familiar with how one works.


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## moondancer

I am not familiar with the pellet stove but a comment on using partical board to make them and I have a dreams that burned it in a stove and almost lost his life so if I miss spoke I apologize maybe my concern over the poison over shadowed my typing 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Viking

moondancer said:


> I am not familiar with the pellet stove but a comment on using partical board to make them and I have a dreams that burned it in a stove and almost lost his life so if I miss spoke I apologize maybe my concern over the poison over shadowed my typing
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


It's best not to be breathing any kind of smoke but often there are many things used in the building of homes that off gas toxic fumes that most people don't even smell, especially if you smoke tobacco. As I've mentioned before many things used in building can off gas formaldehyde as they age, often what may smell good, like the interior of a new car, can silently give you cancer or some other problem. Probably one of the biggest problems of this age is the "Sick Building Syndrome", where a closed loop heating and air conditioning system is used with very little outside air added. The way I built our home I often wonder if I didn't make it too tight, of course I can open windows which is more than what can be said of many buildings I've been in that had no windows that could be opened. Their fresh air comes from their air handling units which have federal guidelines for the percentage of outside air, that is if their equipment is working properly.


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## LincTex

Pellet stoves burn so hot and clean they use a typical outside vent that looks kind of like a propane stove vent. No soot ever if things are set up correctly.


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## Tirediron

A pellet stove is about as close to a rocket stove as your going to get in a manufactured Appliance. "Large wood" stoves can burn fairly clean to, not the epa crap stoves but the simple balanced air stove, IF the operator doesn't get in its way. ie burn hot and use draft control to keep the fire out of the melt down zone, NOT restricting intake air as an operating temp control (intake air restriction is for stopping an overburn, not for keeping chimney sweeps busy).


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## lotsoflead

doesn't it take pellets, electricity and other thing to make a pellet stove work. what is the advantage of one when a person could just burn wood?


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## musketjim

When we remodeled a few years back we pulled out an old fireplace and replaced it with a new Blaze King wood stove. Didn't have to burn a lot of wood until the last 4-5 years when heating oil went over 4$ a gallon. Filling a 500 gal. tank gets spendy. New windows new doors and extra insulation helped a lot also. But -40 to -60 for a few weeks pressures everything. I'm originally from Pa. and when I visited kin folk a couple years ago they laughed when I told them what we consider good fire wood up here, birch and spruce. They just leave that on the ground to rot. I may buy a second stove for downstairs, but it will be a combo wood, coal. The problem with pellet stoves that I've seen is they req. electricity, wood pellet prices have shot thru the roof up here from what my friends say and availability can be an issue here at the end of the supply chain. I haven't seen a lot of wood pellet trees up here on my property. Of course now the EPA and our state DEC is pushing hard to ban all solid fuel burning stoves including pellets because of air quality issues. How stupid is that with the extremes we have here?:gaah: But they let forest fires burn all summer. :scratch But that's another issue. Sorry.


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## lotsoflead

musketjim said:


> When we remodeled a few years back we pulled out an old fireplace and replaced it with a new Blaze King wood stove. Didn't have to burn a lot of wood until the last 4-5 years when heating oil went over 4$ a gallon. Filling a 500 gal. tank gets spendy. New windows new doors and extra insulation helped a lot also. But -40 to -60 for a few weeks pressures everything. I'm originally from Pa. and when I visited kin folk a couple years ago they laughed when I told them what we consider good fire wood up here, birch and spruce. They just leave that on the ground to rot. I may buy a second stove for downstairs, but it will be a combo wood, coal. The problem with pellet stoves that I've seen is they req. electricity, wood pellet prices have shot thru the roof up here from what my friends say and availability can be an issue here at the end of the supply chain. I haven't seen a lot of wood pellet trees up here on my property. Of course now the EPA and our state DEC is pushing hard to ban all solid fuel burning stoves including pellets because of air quality issues. How stupid is that with the extremes we have here?:gaah: But they let forest fires burn all summer. :scratch But that's another issue. Sorry.


 I burn white and black birch,pine, willow, I just split it smaller and let it season a little longer. I also burn and sell locust which we always tossed over the bank yrs ago, now everyone wants it.


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## rugster

4wdCountry said:


> Stove price with blower is right at 2700.00, with an additional 2000 for double wall pipe and install kit, 900 for labor, and travel time.
> The Ashley that he has (not sure which model, but it thermostatic controlled) cost him 795. Plus install. He says there is no large difference between the Ashley and the newer, modern Grandview.
> I just want the best option to cut our propane use.
> I'm in middle tennessee.





4wdCountry said:


> Propane heat is no longer an option due to price increases and market volatility. I'm looking at a Lennox Grandview 230, which will run about 5-6k after install. My neighbor says it's wasted money, that I should buy an Ashley (about 2-3kless expensive installed) from the local furniture store. I know there's gotta be some experience on here, and some opinions. Which would you buy? Is the increased cost worth it? For background, it's a two story 2100 sq ft home (1400 lower, 700 upper) built in 1995, well insulated, stove will go in a corner, piped up through the single story roof above. Looks to me like the Ashley would be less efficient?


Sounds a little expensive to me? 
It looks like a really nice stove I like the refractory plate and the 700 CFM blower!
I have a Lopi revere the fan system only puts out 160 CFM's and the fan is a little noisy cost was 2400. total 
ours went up the chimney less $$

I would wait until spring/ summer


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## Viking

musketjim said:


> When we remodeled a few years back we pulled out an old fireplace and replaced it with a new Blaze King wood stove. Didn't have to burn a lot of wood until the last 4-5 years when heating oil went over 4$ a gallon. Filling a 500 gal. tank gets spendy. New windows new doors and extra insulation helped a lot also. But -40 to -60 for a few weeks pressures everything. I'm originally from Pa. and when I visited kin folk a couple years ago they laughed when I told them what we consider good fire wood up here, birch and spruce. They just leave that on the ground to rot. I may buy a second stove for downstairs, but it will be a combo wood, coal. The problem with pellet stoves that I've seen is they req. electricity, wood pellet prices have shot thru the roof up here from what my friends say and availability can be an issue here at the end of the supply chain. I haven't seen a lot of wood pellet trees up here on my property. Of course now the EPA and our state DEC is pushing hard to ban all solid fuel burning stoves including pellets because of air quality issues. How stupid is that with the extremes we have here?:gaah: But they let forest fires burn all summer. :scratch But that's another issue. Sorry.


And the volcano's and fumaroles dump their stuff in the air as well, yeah and that's another issue as well but as with the forest fires they don't count, it's the people and we're to blame. Oh yeah, one last thing then I'll quite my rant, politicians and climate change people flying all over the world with their private or government planes polluting and heating the upper atmosphere, all in the name of telling us that we're the problem. Many a time I wish the:shtf: just to shut them up:rantoff:.


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