# Warning: GMO Wheat going to flood market



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Just got informed the other day at work while we were talking about GMO's (because of my posts in the topic on GMO's) and there is a huge amount of GMO wheat in the pipeline to come out over next couple of seasons. We are not sure yet if it will just be wheat through farms or also the wheat berries.

It is so hard to avoid GMO with certain seeds. Corn and soy are pretty much guaranteed to have GMO contamination because of the machines used to get the seeds from the plant. They cannot ever get the separators fully cleaned out. But really if you are worried, just plant and wait for the second generation to sprout from your first gen saved seeds as GMO and HYB will not reproduce.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

JimMadsen said:


> Just got informed the other day at work while we were talking about GMO's (because of my posts in the topic on GMO's) and there is a huge amount of GMO wheat in the pipeline to come out over next couple of seasons. We are not sure yet if it will just be wheat through farms or also the wheat berries.
> 
> It is so hard to avoid GMO with certain seeds. Corn and soy are pretty much guaranteed to have GMO contamination because of the machines used to get the seeds from the plant. They cannot ever get the separators fully cleaned out. But really if you are worried, just plant and wait for the second generation to sprout from your first gen saved seeds as GMO and HYB will not reproduce.


You are now going to have to back up your assumptions with proof that GMO and Hybrid seed will not reproduce.. I've seen this stated several times here on the forums and quite frankly know that it is not true. 
So where are you getting your information from? 
Hybrids will reproduce and sprout the next year but most hybrids are not stable and will not reproduce the same plant as you had the first year.. they revert back to either one or the other of the parents if not something totally different to both. Most open pollinated plants were all hybrids at one time or another and were stabilized naturally.
Even the dreaded GMO will sprout and grow.. They have been planning and trying to make a "killer" corn that will not grow if planted out but so far have not been able to do so.(Like Ian Malcolm said.. life finds a way). Any one that does not think that GMO products will not sprout must check out the fields the next year.. corn and beans that are spilled or missed during harvest not only grow but will not be killed by the round up (as most Gmo is called round up ready for a reason.. it can not be killed by round up and was genetically engineered for that very reason).
But due to heavy uses of roundup-A class one gene disruptor many of the plants/weeds are now also round up ready..  which makes them harder to kill and the cycle just gets worse and worse. The more round up they use or the deadlier they make it the deader it makes soils so that instead of a live living breathing soil they are trying to grow stuff in a wasteland.. so then have to pump it full of Ammonia and other harsh chemical fertilizers to trick the plants into growing.. then it washes into the rivers and water sources which then can become over "green" and the plants then suck too much oxygen out of the water and you get fish kills.
This is something I do know a bit about. Having Farmers in the family and such. And seeing first hand what the new "way" of farming has done to what used to be fertile farm/crop land. 
There are some farmers here in my area that are "bucking" the system and going back to the older ways. found out that the nonGMO plants and manuring the field produces the same amount of crop per acre as the new fancy nancy stuff.. but it has a better brix level and nutrition levels. plus the soil is coming back to life. There are link to many of the studies that I have referred to here.. 
if you want them I'll have to do a bit of digging but I can find them again at the gardening forums for ya.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

That would be great, I am new to the seed world (only been doing it for a year and a half) and get most of my information from the people I work with and our local State Agricultural inspector who comes by for inspections prior international shipping. I must say some of the fruits he brings that are new hybrids are interesting. Mostly good, some not.
My understanding of the hyb and gmo was that you would not get the same offspring over and over. They are too unstable. Actually I think I said the same thing as you in the Monsato thread about the hybrids. So I misspoke here. I do not deal in any way with GMO's so I am not read up on it. Admittedly my comment was off the cuff and I apologize if it was in error in any way. I was talking about what my belief was. So nope, I cannot back that up. I thought it was accurate. But with that being said, I would love to read the links you have as I try to increase my knowledge. I will also share the papers with others who i know would enjoy reading it. 
I am curious though as to how the corn growers in your area are ensuring that they are getting the older varieties and not a GMO or hybrid. I personally think that is great and think the GMO corn would make a great additive in fuel tanks.
As for the wheat, we get information from the major suppliers about what they will be offering up over the next couple of seasons. The suppliers have to think several seasons ahead because of how long it takes to get to market.
I also have a bunch of farmers on the wifes side of the family who pretty much only do HL and some OP. They do this because thats what their market demands.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I have to leave here in a few but will come back later and put some links from Michigan State on the round up studies and others that show the studies done between older seed stocks and the new round up ready seeds.. Monsanto keeps saying that "their" seed stock outproduces older types when it actually is about the same and in some cases does worse than older proven seeds. 
With the higher prices of their seed along with the costs of the round up and the costs of the fertilizers many feel they are coming out for the worse. Thus the subsidizing of crops. Can ya see where this is going?


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm allergic to gluten anyway.shame the corn is just as deadly.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

And soy. although I bet if you get the organic soy you should be fine. there is a boatload of regs to make sure there is no contamination there.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Here is one on the new superweeds thanks to monsanto
http://www.cast-science.org/publica...m_sustainability&show=product&productID=52723

and a list of all the new patents that monsanto is going for(may be a bit outdated by now tho.)
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...Search&Refine=Refine+Search&Query=AN/monsanto
an article on how dangerous gene disrupters can be..
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article...d-apoptosis-mature-rat-testicular-cells-vitro
if they do this to rat testicles how do you think man's are going?

And the match up of organic against monsanto's "miracle" crops.

http://www.agprofessional.com/newsl...-organic-farming-is-profitable-134589443.html

I'm gonna keep adding them as I find them on my other forums threads(I had over 6500 posts there it is gonna take some weeding thru.. so bear with me here.


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

I would be MOST interested in any documentation, Jim M, on GMO wheat being in the pipeline. I have been keeping tabs on Monsanto (via my ex-BIL who just retired from that company) along with other reliable sources, for 8 years now and there is absolutely NO mention of GMO wheat seed that has been contracted out to any farmers for production to the public. Word from a friend of a friend do not a fact make. I do know this is the first year for commercial plantings of GMO alfalfa for public consumption. There may be GMO wheat planted in field trials, but that will not be in any pipeline to the public. It is also a fact that Monsanto ONLY "sells" their patented GMO seeds by legal contract to commercial farmers and those seeds are not available to the "home gardner" who buys small packets or even 5 pounds of seed. The GMO's are sold by the 100 pounds and up for large acerage plantings and according to the Monsanto contracts with the farmers, the farmers can and will lose their farms by selling, saving, or giving away even an ounce of patented Monsanto GMO seed.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Well, I never said Monsanto. But here is what a simple Google search found:

From 2008, so outdated: http://www.gmo-compass.org/eng/grocery_shopping/crops/22.genetically_modified_wheat.html

http://inhabitat.com/gm-wheat-a-health-risk-or-a-way-to-feed-the-world/

http://www.naturalnews.com/032164_GM_wheat_Monsanto.html

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/en/news-and-blogs/campaign-blog/gmo-wheat-on-trial-q-a/blog/35848/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/11/04/us-monsanto-wheat-gmo-idUSTRE6A34K220101104

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/28/us-wheat-gmo-britain-idUSBRE82R0ZR20120328

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jenny-jones/gm-wheat-trials-rothamstead_b_1552076.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18224637

http://taketheflourback.org/the-wheat-trial/

But your right, I will see what I can find about anything substantive and not a friend of a friend. Which actually I think I said that I learned it at work. I work for a seed company.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

As I said, herbicideresistant means the plant is producing toxins to repeal bugs/diseases..it's in the stem, leaf, and produce of that plant..*that we eat.*
And we wonder where these young-age children get cancer?? Al lin the name of 'profit'?
I don't have a solution other than stopping Monsanto.:gaah:
Don't get me started on hormone induced, antibiotic fed cows in a room --and not grass fed-- for profit.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

The links I posted are the best of what I can put up. And as I said, I am not saying this company or that company is doing this. The vast majority of seed companies do some sort of business with the big no-nos, whether it is buying GMO or regular seeds, sometimes they are the only game in town.

As for GMO not being available to the public, come on. How hard is it really to get some GMO seed or crop. All you need for contamination is some over eager bees and too small or an absent buffer zone. Or you need some minimum wage part timer who thinks that he wants to grow some corn at home because all he hears is about the shortage. Look at Brazil 10 years ago, there was a HUGE amount of GMO seed smuggled into the country.

I am also considering a pipeline to be within 5 years. So test fields may be the most warning that will be available. I understand you had family work for monsanto, and if you read the links you will find other companies, and I am sure he knew what was going on worldwide. But is anyone surprised that the big GMO suppliers are trying to find a way to get in and corner one of the biggest cash crops out there?

Emerald put up some great points, and aside from a minor misunderstanding (totally my fault, need to proofread more or something) we are pretty much worried about the same thing. She put up loads of info that I did not have and am enjoying learning about. I didn't want to point fingers at any one company in particular. All I wanted to do was to let people know that it is very possible that storing wheat may soon become as futile as storing corn. How hard is it to get corn that is OP or HL? How hard is it to be totally confident that there is no contamination? What if wheat goes this way?


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Directly from one of your links ...

Monsanto researchers are still testing genes and have yet to try engineering any new wheat varieties. The company hopes to start field tests within a year or two, CaJacob says, and it may be 10 years before it can commercialize GM wheat.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/032164_GM_wheat_Monsanto.html#ixzz21YCLh0RT

As I stated, they "may" be starting field trials but as quoted above - 10 years before it's in the pipeline.

Granted, cross contamination can and probably does occur, but that contaminated seed will only produce the one crop when replanted that will contain the GM genes. Every time it crosses with non-GM seed it gets diluted in viability, just like what happens when replanting saved hybrid seed, they gradually revert to the original parent gene lines.

It's really not that hard to purchase OP, noncontaminated seeds, most of the smaller independent seed sellers contract with small private individual seed growers who most usually are not located in areas that cater/are condusive to commercial crops of GM stuff. All depends on who one purchases seed from. Far safer to grow and save your own seed anyway. And since there are really only 7 or 8 GM seed varieties known and grown with corn being the most commonly grown, I really do not worry about my veggie seeds being contaminated with corn, soy, sugar beet, alfalfa, rice, strawberry, or cannola or cotton seed genes contaminating my garden. To each their own.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

goatlady said:


> Directly from one of your links ...
> 
> Monsanto researchers are still testing genes and have yet to try engineering any new wheat varieties. The company hopes to start field tests within a year or two, CaJacob says, and it may be 10 years before it can commercialize GM wheat.
> 
> ...


This is the reason for the big seed saving clubs/forums.. I think by we(gardeners) need to keep growing out and trading our seeds to keep huge genetic diversity in the loop. All it takes is a peek thru history to see how bad it is to only plant one type of anything in huge tracts of land. The biggest one that pops to mind is the Irish Potato Famine. They only planted the "best" producing cultivar(or a couple that were closely related) and the blight took out almost every plant in one season.
I have traveled thru our lovely country and saw in some states just miles and miles and miles upon miles of the same crop. More than likely it was one of only 6 or 7 types of corn/beans and most of them derived form only one or two main cultivars. Just think.. one bug/disease could wipe out miles of crop. If these big companies think that by gene splicing they can wipe out all kinds of crop dangers they're fooling themselves. :gaah: Everyone worries about terrorists and when you hear that word most minds just jump right to bombs and dirty bombs and germ warfare.. nope..not me- I worry that instead of them trying to kill us by the most obvious way. they are going to sneak in via our food supply.. Just think.. all it would take is one little "blight" and our beans/corn/wheat could all be gone because big Corp AG has quite literally bred our crops genetic diversity out of it. In one or two years-all gone.. 
We the small gardeners may hold the key to surviving the future in our hands by not only growing/eating and saving the heirlooms and open pollinated plants but by sharing/trading them to all parts of the country.
Starting a Grass Roots society promoting Victory Gardens again.. 
Okay.. stepping off the soap box now..


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Absolutely correct, Emerald.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Sorry but there are only so many places to get the seeds if you buy them each season. I was looking at catalogs today for places like Seeds by Design, DP Seeds, Seminis, Ernst, Sakata, Wild West, Hemzaden (not sure on the spelling there) and a few others that are slipping my mind. A lot of them sell the same seed! If it is OP or HL, then they are not (typically) patented so everyone sells them. These companies mostly sell in huge lots for resale. I doubt these companies actually grow and harvest all of their seeds completely on their own, they contract out. And those growers probably contract to several bulk suppliers. Can you be sure of every step in the chain? If you want close to sure, use a company that has signed the safe seed pledge and does their due diligence.

Case in point. DP Seeds has a new pumpkin, Seeds by Design likes it but since it has a patent on it, they license it from DP Seeds and buy a huge quantity from the same growers and sell it on their own. Think of the recent e.coli outbreaks. One farm contaminated (or at least caused fears of contamination) across an entire country. You need to be careful with where you do your business. Do your due diligence and ask questions. Build a relationship with your supplier and find out where the seeds come from, get the information to be informed.

Even a home garden should be concerned about what type of crops are around them cause the bees don't care.

Goatlady, why the fixation on Monsanto? There are several GMO companies looking into this and by saying Monsanto is taking it slow does not mean other smaller unknown companies are doing so as well. But talking about Monsanto, do you think they may have sped things up in the year since that article was written now that they have such a powerful person advising President Obamas White House as a Czar?

http://www.naturalnews.com/034847_Michael_Taylor_Monsanto_FDA.html


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Because Monsanto is THE gene modifying company for seeds - Monsanto holds all the patents on the currently available GMO seed, they developed them. They will license the production of said seed out to other smaller companies but Monsanto owns that GMO patents for those seed varieties. Also, in case you are unaware, Natural News is not a really reliable source of health news, they have a tendancy to omit pertinent facts concerning some, if not many of their articles, to spin the articles to promote their agenda. All reporting in any media does this, just most of us have learned to take all such news with a grain of salt and not as totally factual in presentation. I do appreciate your concerns, but I also realize we all are exposed to and gather information from our immediate environments and personal experiences. To wit, I would venture to say those seed catalogs you list most probably are the catalogs from the companies YOUR company sells seed to? Do you have access to catalogs from Baker's Seeds in MO? Pinetree Seeds in VT? Abundant Life Seeds in the Pacific Northwest? Based on your previously posted information, you are fairly new to the seed "business" and it's great you are really getting involved and being observant, and sharing your observations, but, again, they are based on your observations in your job and some googling thereafter. 

BTW, E. Coli cannot get into a seed in a growing thing and then contaminate next year's crop! E. Coli is spread via fecal contamination topically (on the surface). Biologically impossible for E. coli bacteria to contaminate the surface of a pumpkin, somehow get through the skin and pulp and the seed coating there it "hide out" and survive through the drying process, sitting in storage, get planted months down the road, and contaminate next year's pumpkin. I understand your enthusiasm, but please also take a bit more time checking out/understanding the "facts" you post. Incorrect information posted publically damages your credibility.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Goat Lady is right.. E. coli contamination is from someone(or animals too) pooing and either doing it where the plants and veggies are or not wiping properly and then not washing their hands and passing it along the process.
With the cantaloupe/melon last year.. the plant where they are washed and processed had their washing water get contaminated with e.coli and it didn't get caught in time.. the outside of every melon that went thru the wash got a nice layer of it.. now if people here did what they do in the tropics(well what I was told must be done in Haiti) and dip all the fruits from the market in a light bleach water solution and let it dry before cutting them up there would have been no problem. But we are so spoiled here with the clean and trucked in produce that most people do not wash their produce. Once they cut that melon the e. coli from the outside then gets introduced to the inside and our insides. Even then not every one will get sick from this.. E.coli in many different forms is already in us.. some people will get sick some will not.. Some die.. 
Don't get me going on how they feed the cows at feed lots.. they are not meant to eat only grains which changes their stomach chemistry and causes them to get the scours and then the e. coli in their stomachs is becoming a super bug.. Run off from large feed lots has caused more problems with e. coli outbreaks in veggies than people/wild animals.

There are some plants that will suck up e.coli and once it is systemic you can't clean it it is part of the plant.. like green onions and spinach and other leafy greens. 
This is such a wide spread thing.. and so many other reasons that e.coli can cause problems in our food chain.. That is why we need to take control of our own food chains.. make it more local.. give your neighbors and close towns your money and business.
Now Seeds not properly cured and cleaned can harbor some of the blights and such that is why tomato seeds get "fermented" here. The ferment process kills off most diseases that could be passed along. but that is a story for another day..


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

goatlady said:


> Granted, cross contamination can and probably does occur, but that contaminated seed will only produce the one crop when replanted that will contain the GM genes. Every time it crosses with non-GM seed it gets diluted in viability, just like what happens when replanting saved hybrid seed, they gradually revert to the original parent gene lines.


I sure hope you are right about this.

I plant small plots of six different varieties of heirloom corn (sweet, popcorn, milling, etc.) and I time them by maturity date and staggered planting so they do not cross pollinate... but I worry about pollen from GMO corn only a 1/2 mile away from contaminating my heirloom seeds  :help:


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## ONEOLDCHIEF (Jan 5, 2012)

All farmers here in NW FL, are using GMO seeds. If the seeds you plant can stand up to roundup it is a GMO plant... As for GMO Wheat, it has been around for a while now, and this wheat is contracted and goes into the food chain. When I was a child wheat would easily grow 3-4 feet tall, now it grows 18-24 inches with large seed heads, GMO...

Three years ago I was trying to help my brother locate some NON-GMO wheat for an India based company to take back to India, they were very serious about the wheat being NON-GMO. I called many companies and large Farms from FL to LA, AR, KS, IA, and no one could supply any NON-GMO Wheat. So what does that tell you about what we are eating? I wonder if all that wheat people buy for long term storage is all GMO?

If all the farmers around you use GMO seeds, chances are your seed will become contaminated by air blown, or even bee carried pollen.

I am sad to say, Ithink GMO is here to stay.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I am well aware about the actual facts of e. coli. I have spent 17 years in Emergency Medicine. I was talking about the outbreak causing the supermarkets to trash huge amounts of product and a general fear.

Oh and micro clover seeds are occasionally tested for e. coli.

Those are catalogs my company buys FROM. We sell to home gardeners and large farms. We can sell you 20 tomato seeds or a couple hundred pounds of a garden beans. And we sell to at least 3 of the seed vault companies that I can name off the top of my head. I won't do that of course. I could have just come on here and started to plug my job trying to get more sales, but I am not. Just a link in my sig and a offer to act as a customer service to anyone who has a question or concern about the company. I do that to be helpful, I am not trying to hide who I am. After all, that is my name to the left of the post and my job below.

I am well aware that most media outlets taint the news to their leanings. That is why I research what I want to know about what is going on in the world, I do not depend on the MSM.

Thank you OneOldChief for verifying what I said.

I brought up what could arguably be insider information. For instance, I know what sugar substitute is coming on a hard season because of a crop failure. I know why some veggie seeds are hard to find. I know why you cannot get large qty's of some seeds. This is all thing I read from the GROWERS. Some things are not on google. You Goatlady are the one asking for facts. Well facts are not always available because they are not yet published. You assumed I meant Monsanto when I never said what company, just that it is coming. I then did the google search after you asked for the facts and posted the first few links I came across. I KNEW I would not find the information that I have learned from company (growers) sources. Kind of like any field, people in the field who are going to be getting the stuff learn about things first. You picked a quote from a website saying not for 10 years and said heres the truth. I came back with a story from that same website that may have cast doubt on the 10 year thing and you said they are not a truthful site, so what is it? It can't be both ways.

How dare you call my information incorrect. You can doubt it all you want, but trying to school me and call me a liar is over-the-top. You asked for more information and I provided. You took the smallest thing I said and twisted it away. You said information I heard from a friend of a friend is not good (which is not correct), but your ex-BiL who retired from a company that I am sure does not tell everyone everything, is just fine. Get a grip and realize that there are things YOU DO NOT KNOW. This is like arguing with a liberal, or my ex-wife. I am wrong no matter what I say. If you do not think I am anything but a flake, then DON'T read my posts. Or don't respond to them so we do not have to have this ridiculous argument.

So everyone, I am sorry for posting something that I felt would be beneficial to the community to know. I guess someone gets offended and it is their job to tear my statement to pieces.

At least Emerald came back with facts and information, not just shoot me full of holes. Thank you Emerald. 

I came on here to learn more about prepping and saw that I could contribute in a couple of categories. I tried to pass on things I am aware of and knowledgeable of and educated in. But because I have a low post count, I am obviously a moron. My ego can take it, can yours take it that someone can actually make you aware of something? I will keep posting up things where I can. You go ahead and think I am a idiot or whatever. My reputation will be just fine because in the end, I only get involved in areas I can help out in or am able to learn in.


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