# Book: Patriots



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

So I finished _Patriots_ . . . .

All I can say is:

*DON'T WASTE YOUR BLOODY TIME!!!*

Wow. That was one of those rare books that makes me feel less intelligent by the end. I am now dumber for having read that book.

It is sooo dis-jointed, it really feels like he was sitting around thinking up scenarios, and when he thought of one he liked, he'd jump up and write a chapter. There is almost no attempt made at making a cohesive story-line, it really just boils down to a bunch of scenarios strung together; they are all sort of interchangable up until 3/4 of the way through the book.

In the last quarter of the book, we finally begin to see a plot line, but then it is largely abandoned, forsaken as just an excuse to introduce more unrelated scenarios, this time focused largely upon guerilla warfare.

There are also a number of timeline glitches and contradictory elements. A woman winds up with a new-born who had just been on a raid the month before . . . huh? Not likely. There are suddenly three babies when it was only mentioned that one person was pregant. Early on, it is established that the country fell apart in the fall of '08 and the elections were post-poned and then never happened. But then several chapters later, Obama is blamed for his policies. I don't like the guy at all, but how did he get into office if not elected? Not by his "charm"!!!

The character development is largely non-existent. Almost all of the main male characters are interchangable, and after their introductions, most of the women are as well. It will be noticed early on that anyone who carries a Bible is going to be a good guy. Which leads me to my next gripe.

I am a Christian. Catholic, in fact, so if you believe the Pope (which is happening a lot less with ol' Benny than with JPII), the only "real" Christian. I've read the Bible, front to back, several times. I've read different versions of the Bible. My wife teaches high school religion at a Catholic school, and I often help her in preparing classroom discussions. I've spent most of my life in Catholic schools, I've researched a lot of different religions, spent time with all sorts of different faiths (Protestants, Baptists, Lutherans, Jews, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Wiccans, Buddhists, even a bunch of Witness nutjobs.) so please believe that I love studying religion and it's effects upon people. But, holy crap!!! Every time someone sneezes or stubs a toe in this book, "Oh, you have survived stubbing your toe! Let's all pray and recite Psalms!" It gets more than a little tiresome. As I said earlier, it is made pretty clear early on in the book, that if you carry a Bible and have accepted the Lord, Jesus Christ, as your personal saviour . . . you must be a good guy. "Oh, you just wandered into our compound? We don't trust you . . . oh, you have a Bible? Praise! C'mon in! You MUST a good person!"

Now, it must be said that there is a lot of good _information_ in this book. Just not a good _story._ There is actually an index in the back of the book to direct you to where in the book various things are discussed, which makes it a fine reference book. But it is valuable only as that.

I regret not just buying Rawles' how-to book, as he obviously knows what he is talking about; the subject matter is very solid. Unfortunately, he does not excel at turning facts and knowledge into a good story.

Bottom line Skip the novel, buy the how-to book.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow. That's quite a review. I haven't read anything by Rawles except for his website that UncleJoe turned me on to. Rawles does seem like he knows his stuff. I've never heard his fiction discussed so negatively, but that's good to hear. I do plan on getting the book, but I'll know what to expect now. I like a good storyline, as I'm sure most people who enjoy leisure reading do. That was about the most respectful "boy this sucks" that I've ever heard.

Thanks for the detailed review, Turtle.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

War and peace it isn't but I credit it with turning me on to the prepper movement. 

I think it was best described as a manual surrounded by an attempt at a novel.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Pills, I'd say that that sums it up nicely. I would venture a guess that while writing a manual, several of these scenarios popped into his head, and Rawles then tried to connect the various scenarios. Overall, it reads much like the "real life examples" that one might find in an instructional book.

Jason, Rawles definitely knows his stuff. His credentials check out, and he definitely has practical experience with a lot of the stuff he writes about; this is why I am still interested in checking out his how-to manual. It's not a bad read if you want to keep something by the bed, or on the coffee table, or next to the crapper . . . it's the kind of book that one could pick up, read a chapter, and not be troubled if it took a few days to get back to it. A page-turner, it is not.


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## kogneto (Feb 23, 2010)

I read Rawle's survival guide and I though it was ok, a lot of facts that are very useful, but I think the massive amounts of advertising done on his site tells a different story.

Don't get me wrong I understand that running a website isn't easy and it takes advertising to keep things up and running, but good god every webpage is like a half hour scroll of adverts. There's got to be an easier way.

Of course looking at it from another perspective they have a lot of resources for you to choose from, and plenty of access to sites you might not normally come across. But I think the overall taste I get from that site is that it is a haven for people who want to bash liberals and democrats and discuss life after an overthrow of a government they don't agree with.

Now I'm sure that might offend some people, but I've never been under the opinion that you need to be religious or republican to be prepared. I think a healthy dose of skepticism is great but bordering on paranoia is just going to give you ulcers.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I read this book when it was share ware on line for 5.00, I liked it then, he got it published and I bought one and reread it, still liked it, he came out with the present version, I got it too, still liked it..

Now, I agree with the bible pounding, too much for my taste but so what? the guy believes so let it be, get past it. 

I have a very good friend who's very religious , he read my copy of Unintended Consequences, he hated it because there was sex in it... I said shit man, get past that, sex is real, his main argument was the main dude had 2 lady friends that he did 3somes with and who like women as well as men..crap, get past it I said... read the book, learn from it, forget the parts you don't like... learn form the ideas presented in the book... 

I thought it was funny that he never had a problem with the guy killing BATF agents and feeding them to the hogs but got upset over a little sex fun... crap!

To make a point, I've read every word PS's Mr. Young has written and I really like his stories. 

That said the only nit I'd pick is his hang up on high dollar name branding.. no offense but all the packs he talks about start at around $200.00 for a small one and go up..up..and UP from there, hell I don't care if the person in the story is using a NVA ruck sack his dad brought him from the Nam, just say he put his pack on and didi maued!! who cares if it was made by celestial virgins? same with all the tools and weapons...why not just pull out your pocket knife and use it, why does it have to be some super woopti do blade made by some high dollar outfit, hell most of us can't afford a 500.00 back pack.. be real... BUT!! damn it he writes good stories! and he gives me tons of ideas, he makes me think! that's the best thing he does for anybody..he makes us look, see, think... and in that are the treasures and brilliance of Mr. Young's writings... 

Not everybody can afford all the toys, if you don't have a name brand AR 30, so what? think we won't let you be in the Revolution because your toteing your gran daddys ol thutty thutty?? if that's what ya got good for you, come on lets go kill some Zombies!..

Sorry :soapbox2::soapboxrant: I do get carried away!!

Let me finish this by saying I do owe Mr young among others for giving me the guts to do something I never thought I'd try to do, I so admire the written word and admire those who can do it! and I love reading! thank god because I have about a 6th grade education, if I hadn't learned to read like the first day of the first grade I'd be a total lost cause... but I did !!! Thank GOD!!! ... 

After reading these and other stories one day I sat down and started writing one of my own , now I really don't know for sure where a comma goes so I use a lot of them same for periods I try to avoid them.... 

Anyway, I did write a story , kind of a EMP survival story, and for a dumb former grunt I liked it... I never put chapters in it, I just told a story, I did everything wrong but it worked for me anyhow, the few that read it were surprised and said I done good!!! so I wrote 2 more..can't say I finished them but they are good where I stopped...

So, I think I can say that beating up on somebody for writing in a manner that one don't like isn't a reason to shred them....

And to the OP, I'd be happy to buy that Patriots from you if ya wanna sell it, my first one was wore out by all the people I loaned it too and the second one is getting there, and all who read it liked it...so, no offense, I respect your apinion just disagree with it...

HB


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Hozay,

If you wrote a story, post it up so we can also enjoy it!!! :wave:


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> Hozay,
> 
> If you wrote a story, post it up so we can also enjoy it!!! :wave:


Well I can , long as yawl remember I ain't got no school housin...I kinda wrote it like I talk...

OH !! and the main person is named Hozay Buck....!!!

This goes back to my "family" in MT, made up of 3 good friends familys, 7 kids total, they all grew up calling me "Uncle Buck" from the movie... I used to run my road bike with the personal plate "Hozay" quit riding bikes so I put it on my truck plate...

Anyway, I'll try to figger out how to post it ...it's called "High Country Journal" 
I don't do a lot of Road Warrior stuff in my writing..just tell a story..

Will try to post it tonight...


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## survivalboy12895 (Dec 17, 2009)

Well,I have to DISAGREE!!! Everyone has their opinion.Mine is that I liked the book.Yes I too found a few mistakes,but has anyone found a book with no faults???I am a Christian so this may be slightly bias.I like that it was based on a survival group(Northwest Miltitia),and not some loner that just stayed cooped in the woods.I also like that they took action,instead of saying everythings messed up but did'nt do anything.I like that the size of the group was neither to big or to small.But one thing I thought did'nt make sense,is that they should've had diesel vehicles,not gas.They last longer,require less maintance,get better fuel economy,and like they stated in the book,the fuel last atleast ten years if stored properly(as opposed to 3 years max,for gas).


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## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

I loved patriots. I have two autographed copies and gave 2 more copies away. It is not a perfect book but it is right up there with Alas Babylon, Sorry You're on Your Own, Lights Out, and everything by Jerry D. Young.


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## RONSERESURPLUS (Oct 9, 2008)

*I've had a chance to read it as well?*

Hello all, RON L here

I have had the chance to read this, as well as all the share ware versions and I do see he has some skill in his area's but his writting style don't work for me? I see some pratical tips on survival in his writings, but the story itself didn't work for me, I thought , as a few others pointed out, it was disorganized, all over the map and was hard to keep up with! That said, I admire the man for what he has done, hw he has done it and not many have the guts to break away and do as he has?

RON


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## CH0PSV1LLE (Mar 22, 2011)

Just finished the book last and reading it again. Maybe its just me but it seemed as if it was set up like a movie. I did learn a lot from this book. But one thing I hated was how self righteous the group leadership was. The book would have been better if the Grey's died and one of their sons finished the story....... I took it as entertainment with small bits of wisdom.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Hadn't seen this thread before...

I'd seen that book praised before, so I checked it out from the library. And I tried to get through it, I really did. I liked the info. I liked the mindset. But it was so slow, I kept wondering if it was going to pick up. I think the OP's description of disjointed scenarios fits. 

I'm not attacking Rawles. I'm glad he wrote the book, as it seems a lot of people have enjoyed it and gotten something out of it. I just wasn't able to get into it and finish it myself.

I will say, I'm REALLY glad there's a market for this sort of fiction. :2thumb:


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## IndigoLight (Apr 15, 2010)

I agree with Turtle. 
I praise you for finishing the book, Turtle, I couldn't do it, and I am an avid reader and rarely meet a book I don't like or finish. 
But this one was a fiasco IMO.
One is better off buying author's "How to survive TEOTWAWKI" book.
Now that's a book a can recommend as it has tons of useful info, and will save you hours of internet research, but author should steer clear from writing novels.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

So DW bought me a copy of Patriots as an atta boy for some training that I just did at work. I'm about 25 pages in and so far I have to admit that I like it. It's a touch disjointed at this point but on the whole it's pretty good so far. Will post again when I get further in.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

* I still find it funny as in ( LMAO) that I liked this book a lot and so many in here don't yet I found " One Second After " to be poorly written and didn't care for it and so many here loved it... guess that's why we have Blonds and Red heads , Fords and Chevy's ...

Anything that makes you stop and go "HUH" was worth the price.. if you're disagreeing with a book it should then be making you see other better ways..

Anything that makes you think ain't all bad!! I don't agree with every word in the Bible because it was written by MEN... involving word of mouth passed down for many years... Some say not one word of the bible can be changed because it's God's word... tell it to King James...

Read, learn, think, act!! *


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## whome (Oct 6, 2011)

I liked Patriots, granted it's not an American Classic or anything, but I found it entertaining and informative.

Rawles' new book Survivors though, oye, it stunk. Well, I guess it did do one thing for me, it made me more panicky about how much time we have left to prepare for when the SHTF.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

I finished Patriots the other night. After reading the reviews in this thread I wasn't setting my hopes real high, but honestly I really enjoyed the book. Sure it was written like a technical manual, but Rawles called out a lot of equipment I've never heard of. I'm certainly not going to rebuild a '69 Power Wagon from the ground up but he made a valid case of why that would be a good idea. I'd never heard some of the terminology, so I can honestly say it broadened my knowledge as a prepper. 

Some of it was a little disjointed but I liked the characters and more than once I was honestly a little scared when I put the book down for the night. 

In my opinion: this book is well worth reading, especially to new preppers. I liked it and will read it again.


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## georgia (Nov 9, 2011)

I've read Patriots, One Second After, Lucifer's Hammer, and Alas Babylon and enjoyed all four. I've also gotten alot of valuable and useful information from each. Each book has caused me to think about different scenerios and conditions, as well as "what if's" and "how can I's ?". So for that, I am truly grateful to these writers, and all who participate in the various forums and blogs. Keep sharing those ideas and information. To all, many thanks from me and mine as we PREPARE!


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

Not great literature but readable and instructive. Better overall than his new one "Survivors" which is probably better written technically but has less useful information and stretches things pretty thinly. Certainly not in the league of Alas, Babylon, Lucifer's Hammer, or Malevil as a novel.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

I just put Survivors on my wish list on Amazon. Hopefully DW will get it gor me for Christmas.


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## texas_red (Sep 9, 2011)

I read _Patriots_ a couple of years ago. The first 2/3 of the book was OK, but as others have already mentioned, the Bible-thumping was way overdone. Lots of good information on preparedness, though.

The last 1/3 just sort of struck me as though the author got in a hurry to finish the thing and wanted to end it with a bang. Totally unrealistic, in my opinion.

But, on balance, I'm glad I read it and would recommend it as a good guide for prepping.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

I agree totally about the Bible thumping. I really didn't share your opinion about the ending though...I thought it ended pretty good. I liked the bit about the college kid in class with the gun. I thought the part where Dan Fong did his thing was perhaps a bit unrealistic, but who knows? Maybe it could happen.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I liked the Ultra lites with 16's mounted on them.. that was an idea I had back in the early 80's but didn't have any contacts with a UL...Of course without surprise on you're side you're ass is hanging out there low and slow..

All in all I did like it.. *


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

*MEh*

I read Patriots - and threw it out. The story just isn't 'there', with one exception, it was painful to work through.

"Alas Babylon" is still a good, if dated, read even today. "Lucifer's Hammer" or even "Fallen Angles", - cracking good storys - well written, good characters.

Patriots - not so much. Armored shutters? OP/LP near your home? Strobe lights in the trees to defeat NCG's? Beggars belief.

Some like the story, some don't. Much of the 'technical;' stuff is outdated or dangerous. So, if you can get the book for free, you are ahead.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

DKRinAK said:


> I read Patriots - and threw it out. The story just isn't 'there', with one exception, it was painful to work through.
> 
> "Alas Babylon" is still a good, if dated, read even today. "Lucifer's Hammer" or even "Fallen Angles", - cracking good storys - well written, good characters.
> 
> ...


*I don't take issue with you're likes or dislikes in regards to the Patriots book.. except the part about things being out dated and dangerous... please point out those things...

I do wonder why you are putting down the idea of Steel shutters?.. in a home made of stone having steel shutters makes sense if you are preparing to defend you're home...

Where would you put you're LP/OP ? in the book his description of the way it was placed and built sounds perfect to me..if you can see all you need to see and can hear reasonably well what's the beef?... makes perfect sense to me.

As for the Strobes? yes in fact they will screw up NV... why would you think they won't?..there are filters for NV that will protect from Laser burnout but a sudden bright light will do the job..

Many years ago I watched a bunch of people dancing and they turned on strobes.. and I knew right then that those were going to be a part of my basic home defense package.. why do you think they make the new ultra bright flash lights with a strobe capability ?

In my life time I've seen and done a lot of things that led me to believe there was / is sound advice in that book...

Does one have to make it their Survival Bible ? uh no. can anybody learn from it ? if ya can't you're either already dead or don't have the capacity to absorb knowledge...

This is all of course IMNHO , but I'm not new to this thing called prepping or even survival-ism ...or whatever name is the word of the day and yet I've learned a lot from Patriots .

Many people just love the book "One Second After"... I found it to be lame... there were more holes in that book then in a fish net... such as the part where he complained about not being able to get clean...!.. UH..barrel...filled with water....paint it black...set it in the sun.. sooner or later you will have at least warm water... common sense...

I could go on but my post was to point out some different thoughts about the book and you're take on it...

I think a lot of people started the book after hearing others put it down.. maybe all should try reading it again with an open mind and sift thru it to gather the many grains of golden ideas. and there are a great many if ya look!*


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