# Often overlooked



## Maxxdad (Oct 15, 2017)

I had an interesting discussion with a friend. MD and former SF Team Doc from the Viet Nam era.
We were discussing prep and medicine.

He told me two major concerns of his were the availability not just of medicines but those dependent on Psych meds, alcohol and nicotine. A social collapse or regional emergency is not the time to be ging through withdrawals. The perfectly normal friend or team mate that is also a chain smoking functional alcoholic that runs through his stash may become a nightmare to have around.

His belief is that somewhere around 30% of Americans are dependant in some form on chemicals. Whether this is anti depressants, alcohol or tobacco.

How does this effect your planning?
I can and have made booze. I can stockpile tobacco , but the whole psych meds thing?
This I think would be a good discussion for your team or extended family.

His other topic was animals of the pet variety.

In an emergency we have sen what happens. People unable to feed their cats and dogs will simply turn them out. Rabies in short order will be wide spread. Imagine 6 months into a disaster that little Johnny gets bit or sctatched by that cute little fluffy kitten that wondered into camp. You then watch Little Johnny slowly and painfully die over a two week period! Not pretty.

My personal SOP now includes the Immediate killing of strays and anyone bringing an animal into our town must provide shot records or they dont get in. Period.

Just some thoughts friends.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I agree with your post except about the rabies. I don't see how there would be much of an uptick in rabies. there is bound to be rabies in most areas just like now but I could believe it might less than now rather than more. My only reasoning for this would be the because of the reduction of the number of animals due to year-round intense hunting pressure.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Maxxdad said:


> His belief is that somewhere around 30% of Americans are dependant in some form on chemicals. Whether this is anti depressants, alcohol or tobacco.
> 
> How does this effect your planning?
> I can and have made booze. I can stockpile tobacco , but the whole psych meds thing?
> ...


I think he is low at 30% but the concern is real. no doubt the numbers overlap and are questionable as I just did a quick Google search 13% on antidepressants in 2002 and increasing rapidly. Somewhere between 12.5-30% alcohol abuse issues. 10% addicted to recreational drugs. 21% of Americans smoked in 2008 (declining).

Whatever the real numbers are it is a huge issue now and will be even more of an issue if things fall apart.

I have made booze. I could at least in theory grow dope, it is the biggest cash crop in this province, so it likely won't be short for a long time. Tobacco is too darned expensive to stockpile, or at least it is way down on my list. Psych medications will be a major problem.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I would say a societal collapse is the exact time to give up your chemicals. I don't drink or do drugs but I did used to smoke. I experienced some violence on the job that resulted in me getting stabbed and breaking some fingers on on someone's face. Over the next several days and weeks I had other things to concern myself with and smoking just stopped being a priority for me. Before I knew it I was not a smoker anymore. I experienced withdrawal but just toughed it out.

If indeed one is a prepper/survivalist and they are addicted to chemicals (not referring to necessary prescriptions), then they are not very prepared or concerned with survival IMO. The same way some one who describes themselves as a survivalist who is 125lbs overweight and horribly out of shape but choose to eat fast food and watch TV all day is not really concerned with survival.

As far as those who are addicting showing up at my door; I won't be stocking up on tobacco, marijuana, alcohol or Prozac. But I will go peruse my stock pile of guns, ammo, tasers, asp batons, pepper spray, etc. and feel better about this topic.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Also stray animals will quickly become food. The first thing that happened in Venezuela when the grocery stores shut down was pets and strays became part of the food supply for starving people. A place that was once riddled with stray dogs and cats now has almost no feral animals roaming around.

Even if I don't eat cat or small dog, my dogs sure will.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Rabies shots are actually good for about 3 years, even though you're "supposed" to get them every year. And as stated above, rabies will probably be a rare thing in TEOTWAWKI. To me, the greater issue with pets is whether or not they serve a purpose. Just as individuals who try to join up with a MAG will be asked, "What do you bring to the table?", so an animal must serve some purpose or be put to use as food. Dogs are essential to security, and many can be used to help with hunting. Even Indian tribes always had dogs around, because no stranger could slip in the camp without arousing alarm. Dogs also were used to carry burdens. Cats help control rodents -- which eat your food and carry disease. Tropical fish? Parakeets? Food, or nothing at all.

The greater hazard with pets are the ones that are turned loose and become feral. Dogs will travel in packs and will quickly revert to the behaviors of a dingo pack ... attacking livestock, digging through your stored food, killing small children to eat. Even the ones that avoid contact with humans will thin the wild game population. These will have to be protected against. Anyone else ever read _Alas, Babylon?_


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## Tank_Girl (Dec 26, 2011)

I watched a doco. on a animal rescue in Detroit after the collapse where people dumped their dogs.
Yes they formed packs but numbers were kept in check because the smaller weaker dogs, cats, kittens and pups where killed and eaten.
It actually showed footage of a pack eating a pup who was hit by a car.
One chap who grew veggies and grazed goats and chickens in abandoned backyards had to lock his livestock at night in a shed so the packs didn't kill his goats and chickens.

One thing I have learned about serious addiction is regardless of if they've quit
that urge comes back as soon as there is emotional pressure and stress.
The higer the stress, like say a SHTF type situation, to stronger the addiction
comes back.
I'm growing my own herbal remedies and to the average person they don't look like useful medical plants and so ignorance of the masses is helpful in that instance.

I have a still....urmm....to distill water...so I have nice clean water for my batteries and household use.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

This topic is something I never really thought about. But everything talked about so far I could see happening. I truely hope shtf never happens but if it does alot of people will starve within a week and then I'm sure there would be total anarchy for the first few months until the population things out some until things settle out. Jmho


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

Don't forget us old people on high blood meds, thyroid pills, etc.

Twenty yrs ago when we moved into the area there were packs of feral dogs running around. Between me and a National Guard neighbor they quickly came down with extreme lead poisoning. Now the whole place has dog tight fencing.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

You forgot the heroine, meth, painkiller, drugs of all kinds, junkballs. Im more worried about those pieces of garbage than anyone. World is in working order and they are still killing and stealing. They will be the real problem. Your pot heads, drunks, and nicotine heads will just be pissy and might need a slap in the mouth. The junkballs will need a bullet. We have rabies vaccine on hand, actually we have a ton of animal meds on hand, but thats part of being a farm. We can go pretty darn far into the future on the meds we carry. Very good topic!


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If TEOTWAWKI ever does happen I assume everyone will kill all predators they see of ANY kind.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

I don't know about where you live, redbeard, but where I am you can not purchase rabies vaccine unless you're a vet. I always purchase other shots and animal meds as needed, usually from Jeffers Pet Supply, but rabies shots I can't get.


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## Maxxdad (Oct 15, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> You forgot the heroine, meth, painkiller, drugs of all kinds, junkballs. Im more worried about those pieces of garbage than anyone. World is in working order and they are still killing and stealing. They will be the real problem. Your pot heads, drunks, and nicotine heads will just be pissy and might need a slap in the mouth. The junkballs will need a bullet. We have rabies vaccine on hand, actually we have a ton of animal meds on hand, but thats part of being a farm. We can go pretty darn far into the future on the meds we carry. Very good topic!


Don't forget all the jails and prisons that will have to release their "guests" on humanitarian grounds. Bastards will gang up and be everywhere.


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## sewingcreations15 (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks @SheepdogPRS for a good topic .

Here in Australia we have no rabies at all but we do have a virus that is transmitted by fruit bats that is in the same family as Rabies.

Having a son who is addicted to ice, marijuana and ecstasy and also suffers from schizophrenia and no doubt drug psychosis let me tell you we are more in danger from the druggies than anyone else. I have been through this and the total breakdowns he went through and been on the end of his violence and unless you have seen it you are really not aware of how strong and irrational they are. My husband and I moved away due to his violence and he now doesn't know where we live and never will into the future.

We keep a good supply of pain medications, minerals, vitamins and pet medical supplies here too and our cat is up to date with all vaccinations.

In a SHTF situation anyone we didn't know would be treated accordingly as a hostile invader.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Starcreek said:


> I don't know about where you live, redbeard, but where I am you can not purchase rabies vaccine unless you're a vet. I always purchase other shots and animal meds as needed, usually from Jeffers Pet Supply, but rabies shots I can't get.


They just changed the rule on the rabies vaccine here in my state to you can't get, but lucky for me a little birdie told me about it before it happened so i stockpiled. But it's not really a big deal because a bunch of other states still allow it including the one my sister lives in so she can order it for me when i run low.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Ky allows rabies shots,
I buy them from my local hardware store.

Why would a state ban Rabies shots ?????

Oh, I know....them Vetinarians want a monopoly...

Jim


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

phideaux said:


> Ky allows rabies shots,
> I buy them from my local hardware store.
> 
> Why would a state ban Rabies shots ?????
> ...


That's all i can come up with plus when the vet gives your dog a rabies shot they notify your town so they can make you register your dog, equals more income. We get zero benefit for registering our dogs. Last time they called me i told them the dogs are dead, hit by a car. Lady said both of them. I said yup, now do you have you have any more salt you want to rub in my wound. She said nope thank you have a great day. Been doing my own rabies shots ever since. And we give it to the goats too.


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

I speak from experience in the case of druggies after a SHTF event and even people on prescription mood drugs especially if they have been diagnosed schizophrenic or Bi polar "You cannot trust them or believe anything they claim!" So far I have not met anyone that is on long term prescription phyc meds who has been cured. It just moderates the mood swings, Even medicated Their mental stability is always on a razors edge and the ability to handle pressure is limited.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

ssonb said:


> "You cannot trust them or believe anything they claim!"


Same for politicians


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

I thought they were the mental basket cases and drug users, That's not who we are talking about?????


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

TheLazyL said:


> And those that are addicted to coffee.


Ya that would make me grumpy.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> And those that are addicted to coffee.


Addicted is such a strong word. I prefer to think of myself as being given super powers (such as consciousness) through the use of the brewed brown bean.


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

And the staple of all the cowpokes in the whole west.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

ssonb said:


> And the staple of all the cowpokes in the whole west.


Not all of them! Coffee is right next to robitussin on the flavor chart. Can't stand either one and both give me insomnia.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

I don't drink coffee, but I have a bunch in my preps because there is no way on God's green Earth that I am going through the Zombie Apocalypse with my dear husband without his coffee!!!


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

DONT DRINK COFFEE!!! that aint murican... BTW the DW does not either, but I figgered that could not be passed without a comment, Leaves more coffee fer me.


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## sewingcreations15 (Aug 19, 2017)

Don't drink coffee or tea here either unless it is the occasional herbal tea so probably wouldn't be an issue for us. Not worried about being un-American either as we are Aussie .


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

DrPrepper said:


> I don't drink coffee, but I have a bunch in my preps because there is no way on God's green Earth that I am going through the Zombie Apocalypse with my dear husband without his coffee!!!


Same here!!


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## SheepdogPRS (Oct 8, 2017)

My coffee is decaf and since all I drink is coffee and water I have learned to drink it black.


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

Riddle here SDPRS...What do they call decaf coffee?......" never mind"


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## SheepdogPRS (Oct 8, 2017)

It is hot, has some flavor, and feels better on cold mornings than cold water. Caffeine done little besides send me to the bathroom more often. It doesn't keep me awake or wake me up. It doesn't give me any energy kick. I used to blend my own decaf coffee and when I served it to friends they didn't notice any difference. I can make a very rich, even bitter cup of decaf but it isn't worth the effort any more. I don't like a bitter after taste whether it is coffee or beer.


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## ssonb (Oct 24, 2017)

Ya mean you are still asleep when you go..Thats one way to keep you awake!!!!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Coffee is gross and caffeine is only necessary for those who don't exercise and sleep. Besides hot liquids are meant to have meat and veggies in them and are eaten out of a bowl with a spoon.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Sentry18 said:


> Coffee is gross and caffeine is only necessary for those who don't exercise and sleep. Besides hot liquids are meant to have meat and veggies in them and are eaten out of a bowl with a spoon.


I mostly agree. I love my hot chocolate, especially with a small dash of vanilla rum.


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## sewingcreations15 (Aug 19, 2017)

Another hot chocolate girl here but without the rum , as I am silly enough normally.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

The only time I drink warm liquid is same very very rare time I drink alcohol and consume raw honey, when I have a bad cold and need some relief. Hot tea, honey, brandy and a lemon wedge. Tastes disgusting but works.


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## SheepdogPRS (Oct 8, 2017)

I am having my fall allergy attack harder this year than in a very long time. I go through a roll of paper towels every two days. (I can't use facial tissue because I blow right through them. I should be losing about two pounds a day just in the mucous I am shedding.  )
Today I am taking decongestant and antihistamine together so I can be around family. Normally I figure it is best to deal with the symptoms. 
I am going to stick to my KETO diet. It is not hard for me as I like all the things that I can eat and I am serious about forcing my body to get rid of the fat it has stored for the past 20 some years. I have lost two inches off my waist and I am going to need to punch a new hole in my belt to keep my pants on. I am really looking forward to getting back to my "fighting weight" again. Watch out girls this 67 year old man is starting to look good again. (my wife is liking the change too)


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Coffee for me is all about the ritual and routine. For many years I survived on it and was severely addicted. Now I have one cup most days and it doesn’t matter if it is decaf or regular. It’s just a comfortable part of my morning routine.

Tea on the other hand must be from a properly warmed pot, steeped long enough, drunk from a China cup (with a saucer) and the pinky extended.

I stay away from hot chocolate because, I like it thick and creamy (think melted chocolate bar) and I don’t need the calories, the fat or the caffeine.

For colds honey and lemon with a slice of ginger works.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

there are countless wild edibles that can and have been used to make tea.


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