# Penny royal



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I am ordering 40g of penny royal (smallest amount supplier sells) which is about 500,000 seeds give or take.

Want to spread it out on my lawn and just cut it with the grass. Maybe let it grow along side of the house, fencing and a bank to a river.

Curious what the Master Gardner's here (and anyone else) think a good seeding rate would be for direct seeding using a broadcast seeder onto a lawn. I would probably now down short, maybe dethatch if I find one cheap enough then over seed this mixed into some grass seed.

The goal is insect control. I live in the heart of Lyme country (ticks) and I have a huge amount of other flying insects because I am close to water. Gnats galore! Maybe this will scare off my moles as well. Prefer no chemicals cause I have the kids out there playing. And Heck, the seeds are cheaper than anything else.

Thanks


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Just remember to much of a good thing can be bad ...

I would hope you also did a good research on pennyroyal and the side effects. (for the safety of any females in your household.)

The herbal world has many plants that will deter this and that bug ... I would go with a yard/house boarder and not broadcast onto a lawn.

But that is just me ...


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Oh I know that. I am just getting that much because it is coming from the grower. I am buying on my works wholesale account. I probably will only use a few hundred seeds. Was hoping someone knew of a x amount per acre kind of measurements.

The rest will be stored or maybe sold on eBay. That stuff sells for a few bucks a hundred seeds.

Yup I saw the warnings for the oils for pregnant women. Thanks.

I have looked at both bark and gravel barriers. Not as feasible the way our area is set up.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Please please please be very careful with penny royal, loveage and tansy. They were used as an herbal birth control way back in the day but it can have serious side effects on the reproductive system even when not pregnant.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Grimm, should the worry be for general exposure to the oil, the plant, cuttings? Can my wife walk around if it is in the yard?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Jim1590 said:


> Yup I saw the warnings for the oils for pregnant women. Thanks.


Will you put a sign in your yard warning mothers to be and breast-feeding moms to stay off the lawn?

It is well noted that they should not come in contact with the plant?

And as a last note I can't understand why you would want to plant a herb that is a well-known abortificant.

I would think again about putting this in a lawn where people walk and children play.

(sorry) ~ and best of luck.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Andi, your warnings are well heard.

All of our resources show no real danger from the Plant. Just from the oil. We do not offer it in our catalog. Never handled it before. She heard it is good for the insects.

I am more than a little concerned now. I will do some more research this weekend. I have not ordered anything yet. 

I am only looking at spending 20 bucks for the 40grams of seeds. Is there ANY safe planting rate? Honest question for an honest answer.

The warnings that I saw basically said pregnant women should be careful. Both you and Grimm are being much more.... grimm about it. If it is worse than I have briefly researched, my opinion is maliable.

Is there something safe that I should look at instead to make my lawn less appealing to insects like lawn gnats (or whatever they are called) and ticks? It really does look like they could carry away one of my kids. There are that many flying around.

Again thank you both, feel free to b-itch slap me and say wake up stupid, bad idea.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Here is one of the pages I read: http://www.motherearthnews.com/natural-health/pennyroyal-safety.aspx



> For 35 years, the writers and readers of Mother Earth News have shared hundreds of ways to use herbs to make life more enjoyable. In our archived articles, European and American pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium and Hedeoma pulegiodes) have been recommended as a way to deter fleas, as a vapor to relieve nasal congestion caused by colds, and as an infusion to cleanse the body of toxins.
> 
> We stand by using the pennyroyal plant to deter pests, but new information on the active ingredient in both species of pennyroyal, pulegone, merits a recall of taking pennyroyal into your body. In 1996, two California infants died after being given mint tea, in which the mint turned out to be pennyroyal. Most other pennyroyal incidents involve the use of pennyroyal essential oil (generally used for therapeutic or homeopathic purposes or as an insect repellent), which is so potent that it should be considered a poison. In the interest of safety, never use pennyroyal essential oil for anything, not ever.
> 
> ...


Another: http://users.resist.ca/~kirstena/pageherbspennyroyal.html


> Flowering Pennyroyal, July, 2008, Seattle, WA (Photo:K. Anderberg)
> 
> Pennyroyal grows to look like sticks with little balls on them at intervals. In summer, the balls on the sticks bloom into purple-pinkand white furry flowers. Pennyroyal has killing properties...herbal midwives used it as an abortive in the past, and it is a potent insecticide. Once I hung a bouquet of freshly picked pennyroyal in a corner of my bedroom. It looked and smelled nice. But in no time, the bouquet began to collect dead bugs. Bugs were flying into the bouquet and then dying from something in the pennyroyal.
> 
> ...


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Here in S.W. Oregon it's commonly found growing in the gravel of driveways. I have a few patches in the lower field that really smell good when mowing. Penny royal is a tough plant, I wouldn't be surprised to find that it could grow in a crack of a large stone. It's sad that a plant that smells so good could be so harmful.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Here are some uses that I found in my research many years ago. These came from out of print reference books.

The leaves were used in an infusion with boiling water then used to bathe the body to encourage a spontaneous abortion. This was one way men were able to make sure their wives didn't have unwanted children.

The infusion was also boiled to concentration and ingested. This is still done in some places with parsley to encourage menstruation if the period is late. 

Herbalists recommend not having the plants around women or children without safety measures. These could be clothing that fully covers the skin, boots and gloves. General skin contact can cause problems for some women.

Cutting the plant with your mower will release the oils. Personally, I want a yard my kids and pets can roll around in and I can walk bare foot on.

I grow rosemary in pots to move around the yard when we want to keep the bugs away. Lemongrass is another repellant.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I can't copy the text without typing it all out. But it says that the dry or tender plant is toxic and can be *toxic to the liver* if it accumulates.

http://www.botanical-online.com/toxicityofpennyroyal.htm


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Jim1590 said:


> Is there something safe that I should look at instead to make my lawn less appealing to insects like lawn gnats (or whatever they are called) and ticks? It really does look like they could carry away one of my kids. There are that many flying around.


For flying insects I look to the sky ... Bats!

Many bats, and almost all in the United States, thrive on an insect diet. A single bat can eat up to 1,200 mosquito-sized insects every hour, and each bat usually eats 6,000 to 8,000 insects each night. Their appetite for mosquitoes certainly makes a backyard more comfortable. Bats are opportunistic, and their lack of discretion benefits everyone. Some of their favorite prey include crop-destroying moths, cucumber beetles, flies and gnats. Natural insect control is their specialty.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/nature-and-environment/control-insects-bat-habitat.aspx

Barn Swallow, Natural Pest Control

Imagine: 60 insects per hour, a whopping 850 per day. That's how much each bird eats.

http://birdnote.org/show/barn-swallow-natural-pest-control

Going Buggy! Insect-eating Birds

http://www.learner.org/jnorth/tm/spring/InsectEaters.html

Just to get you started ...


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Jim there are many other less harmful herbs, flowers and plants that can be used. For example Marigold is often planted around garden boarders to repel insects, all Mints will repel insects but can be invasive. These are just two examples, there are many more. The suggestion that Andi made about inviting Birds into your yard is also a good one, put up some feeders and a Bird bath will go along way. Finally there are many home made, safe and eco-friendly sprays that you can mix up yourself from common household ingredients and spray on your yard. For example use a couple of tins of Skoal chewing tobacco, put his into about two Quarts of water and let it sit in the Sun for a couple of days then strain add a couple of ounces of baby shampoo, add to that some hot pepper juice ( put peppers in your blender add hot water, blend and strain) and then add this mixture to a hose end feeder and treat your yard. This mix can be used on your garden, fruit trees and flowers.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Ladybugs. You can get a pint size carton containing hundreds at your local hardware/garden center.

For ticks consider getting some guinea fowl.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

I had a problem with ticks until I got some chickens and ducks... Then there was no more tick issue.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Parasitic wasps ... for ticks!

How?

The parasitic wasp lays its eggs inside a tick and when the eggs hatch, the emerging wasps kill the tick and feed on it. Attract these wasps by planting nectar or pollen producing flowers. They can also be bought commercially.

I have not tried this but I'm looking into it ...


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Other than livestock and garden, I am leery of bringing in anything that is not from that area. Our lovely government has had some disasters with invasive species introduction.... Kudzu ring a bell with anyone?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Parasitic Wasp are not new and I know we have them naturally ... I've seen what they can do to tomato hornworm. (kind of cool) We also saw them at work in the tobacco fields. (all those long years ago)

But I have never tried to attract them ... We also have ducks, chickens and turkeys but that is not an option for some.

It is just a thought.

http://www.gardeners.com/how-to/parasitic-wasp/7330.html


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

*Andi said:


> For flying insects I look to the sky ... Bats!
> 
> Many bats, and almost all in the United States, thrive on an insect diet. A single bat can eat up to 1,200 mosquito-sized insects every hour, and each bat usually eats 6,000 to 8,000 insects each night. Their appetite for mosquitoes certainly makes a backyard more comfortable. Bats are opportunistic, and their lack of discretion benefits everyone. Some of their favorite prey include crop-destroying moths, cucumber beetles, flies and gnats. Natural insect control is their specialty.
> 
> ...


I have a shed that I store plywood and tires and rims, it's also a great place for bats, I seldom go in it so the bats remain mostly undisturbed but one time when I went in there was two female bats nursing very cute tiny babies. I love having bats around just because they eat so many insects, many years ago I hiked into a lake in the Nothern Cascades of Washington and the first night the mosquitoes were horrible, that night bats were flying all over the surface of the lake and the next night I wasn't bothered by mosquitoes at all. I like having swallows and swifts around and I've watched blue birds perched at the top of trees fly up and catch insects. Sadly the timber companies, around here, do so much insecticide, herbicide spraying that it kills many of the birds that take care of insect problems. A couple of other creatures that are insect controllers, Bald Faced Hornets and Robber Flies.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Penny royal has a dark history.
Fever few
Pyrethrum Chrysanthemum
Lavender
Marigolds
Citronella grass
All work well instead of or with Penny Royal
Some Marigold work against nematodes, all can ward off deer from young plants.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

The supplier came back that they are out of stock until next season. So that takes care of that!

Cannot do any fowl or chickens right now.

Gonna get some more bird feeders up.

Going to plant peppermint and spearmint around the house and along a bank. Those should help. What would everyone suggest for ticks other than a gravel or bark barrier?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Plant a number of herbs and flowers as a boarder and around the house ...

Best of luck!


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