# Seeking Help with Bunker Water Storage



## familyman (Dec 2, 2015)

Good evening, everyone. My name is Doug and I am new to the site, as well as this style of messaging. I am relatively new to the prepper community but recognize the very real advantages preparedness affords and have committed to building a bunker for myself and family in 2016. I got into prepping purely by accident. I ordered a book on fatherhood best practices a few months back and Amazon accidentally shipped me a book called One Second After. They let me keep it because the mix up was theirs and I found it to be very compelling.

I am an army veteran; work as a software project manager; and have a wife of eight years and three children (and counting). We rent in Newcastle, WA now but will make a move east to the Snoqualmie area to settle on a home (at the base of the Cascade Mountain range) with a few acres in the next six months.

I have a bunker budget of $150k and have had many conversations with a highly regarded concrete contractor who has quoted me $75k (minus excavation) for a 20'x60' reinforced concrete bunker with 8' ceilings, 8" walls, and the roof at 5' below ground (entryway included). I have included as attachments here a footprint and rough schematic of the power, water, ventilation, and drainage infrastructure.

*Power* - In the event of an EMP/solar storm the wiring and solar panels will be stored in one of the bunker's bedrooms. The physical hookups will be put on my roof right away, oriented in such a way as to maximize sun exposure. When needed, the panels and wiring will be brought out, hooked up, and will feed into the bunker's battery system, feeding the LED lights, water heater, and ventilation fans (NBC filtration system). Does anyone have any guidance on lessons learned or advice on what the "best" solar panel/battery system might be for my needs? No refrigeration or anything substantial. The bunker will not be fed by any power system besides this solar panel and battery setup.

*Ventilation* - There will be steel ventilation pipes every 10' (so 14 total, standing about 8' tall on the surface, each with holes drilled throughout the sides of the top) along the sides that serve the dual purposes of concealed ventilation inlets and chain link fence posts (probably supplemented by smaller posts in the middle, every 5'). The fence would encircle a garden and fruit trees, and the enclosure would further be surrounded by orchard. These will feed along the ceiling of the bunker into a central pipe that feeds into an NBC filtration system with capacity for up to 17 or so people. As with the power section above, any guidance in this area will be especially appreciated.

*Water* - I am thinking of burying an adjacent 20,000 gallon fiberglass potable water storage tank, gravity-fed into bunker kitchen and restroom. Roof runoff (hopefully I can get a metal or clay roof) could be fairly easily channeled into a buried receiver pipe that would store the plentiful water we get in the Pacific Northwest. This would be buried just under the service for both ease of accessibility to the top and to take advantage of gravity to feed into the kitchen and restroom. What are your thoughts on this idea and its potential for safe, long-term storage? A water heater would be one of the few draws on the solar panels/batteries, so water would have to go through this system for the kitchen sink and shower. Would anything need to be added to the water to increase its longer term viability? Drainage options also need to be considered. Any advice is most welcome.

*Drainage* - For grey water I am thinking of a pipe that would ideally (again) gravity feed into vegetation of some sort. And as far as septic, I was (perhaps naively) hoping to avoid that altogether with a very nice compost toilet. I just worry about the maintenance involved with a septic system - am I wrong? I might well be. The thinking is that the composted waste would be recycled above in the garden and orchard. The only requirement would be a vent pipe leading to the surface.

At the end of the day, I just want this to be concealed entirely (entrance under a carpet in a well-locked inconspicuous garden shed). So if anyone walked in my back yard they'd just see a garden with a bunch of fruit trees. And even if SHTF, the only change from normal would be the presence of solar panels atop the roof with a well-hidden/buried cable leading to the shed and the rain gutter pipe feeding into a pipe in the ground. The storage room would of course be stocked with 2,000 or so 50 oz. cans of Ma Collis (Keystone) beef and chicken, with enough rice, lentils, salt, beans, and wheat to feed a small army.

I feel in good company with you all and have to say it is nice to be able to talk about this stuff without getting sideways looks. I just can't stand the thought of my little ones facing the sort of conditions one might expect if the grid goes down even for a month or two.

Thanks for your insight and recommendations on where I should go to procure these items or what I should be considering as I move forward with this investment. I look forward to many years with you all. I will also pose the same questions to the electricity and other chats in this community.

Best,

Doug


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

My thoughts on water storage include a well dug through the floor of the bunker and a hand pump. Depending on location and depth of water you might be able to use a 12V well pump also.

I would go with a septic system as I would prefer flush toilets even if I had to hand pump the tank full. Properly installed a septic system can go for years if maintained properly. Even then you need a vent system. Take your vent pipe to the surface then turn it horizontally with a slitted pipe buried under larger rocks. That way it would not be visible to anyone above. or run the pipe through the wall of the garden shed.

You can easily hide the air pipes in the same way. Go through the wall in the garden shed and add a louvered grill to the shed. It will look like the shed has ventilation.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

A couple important additions.

There is a chemical you can add to the concrete to make it waterproof. That way water will not seep though the pores left from the drying concrete. It also strengthens the concrete X's 2.

Put a hand crank blower on the incoming air vent for emergency use filtered of course.

I have a backup camera on my van. 12V system and the camera is small, easily camod by being in a bird house. Install this as you build so you can see whats going on outside. Regular cameras on the shed would lead to too many questions.

Your fiberglass water tank won't work. If it is not kept full it may collapse from the weight of the dirt on top. The instructions for a fiberglass septic tank tell you to fill the tank before burying for this reason. The same would hold true for a water tank.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

One Second After will scare the heck out of you.... I agree with oldasrocks... My friend has her pump inside the bunker and it is perfect... I used to have a bunker in WA and I hated it, you feel like you are in a grave... Just make sure you have a contractor who has experience with UNDERGROUNDS!!! I came from a community that has hundreds of bunkers and I have heard just about every horror story there is.... I even know someone who has an underground for her horses!!! Our underground had a 400gal water tank in it fed from the well but if I had to do it over, I would do the well pump inside instead...


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Welcome to the right place, lots of experience here on all areas of prepping. You haven't mentioned how your property lays out, if you are on the front range of the Cascades, water run off could cause considerable problems for an underground structures, so large slotted drainage pipe embedded in a lot of gravel surrounding your bunker is very important. We have dealt with drainage problems when we first moved here in the coastal mountains of S.W. Oregon and know exactly how important proper drainage is, we had a dirt bank collapse due to saturated soil from a week long rain storm, we also learned about the term angle of repose, the minimum angle at which soil will flow. The saturated mud from that dirt bank was about 2 to 5 degrees and it was moving toward our travel trailer, which we were living in while trying to build our home. I grew up in Washington and I know all about what the end result of heavy rains can do. I'm with oldasrocks on the fiberglass tank, my thinking would be, as long as you're having concrete poured have an attached cistern poured with a manhole cover for clean out access. We built a 1,100 gallon cistern with hand mixed concrete at the top of our property which is fed by a spring further up the mountain behind us, this cistern provides our home with 25 psi water, I love the fact I don't have to pay for electricity to have it pumped. We are also installing a solar backup system, I built a shed for the batteries, solar controller and inverter and I'm going to shield it with screening that is grounded for a Faraday shield. I don't have the solar panels installed yet as I have to build the mounting system, meanwhile they are stored in a shielded area until the solar activity cycle peters out. Do a search here on solar systems, there are a lot of people here that have excellent systems and a ton of experience on setting them up. If you don't find what you want on searching, don't be afraid to ask what you may think is a dumb question.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

I'm with Viking and oldasrocks on the concrete water tank instead of a fiberglass one. If you don't fill them first, they will float out. I would abut it to the bunker so you can share a wall (save $$$) and have some sort of man access to the water tank from inside the bunker. With a locking manhole cover for the top of the water tank, it could be used as an emergency exit. You do want to use a high quality hydraulic concrete.

I also don't see roof support columns for load bearing which means you'll need huge amounts of rebar in the roof. What I have seen used here in Texas in underground houses is drill stem filled with concrete. Then frame the interior walls around the pipes.

You also have to be aware of hydraulic pressure from saturated soil. You can cheat a bit using a sand-gravel mixture a foot or so wide around the exterior walls to absorb some of the pressure, but some sort of french drain system is a good idea. That water could even be fed into your water tanks as long as there is a way to divert it if the water tank(s) are full.

Footings/Piles- It's best to go down to bedrock with piles, but deep, wide footings are a necessity for a stable structure.

I also suggest talking to a builder who has underground experience in your area as there are differing requirements for differing soil types.

I suggest switching the dining and living areas for ergonomic and defense reasons. You always want to be facing the entrance, and moving the dining area by the kitchen saves steps. You also want the door to your shed on another wall. You'll thank me when you start moving things down there. The entrance on the layout is not compatible with the above ground layout. I suggest rotating the stairs so the come down over one corner of the bunker. That should give you more storage. You'll also want a dogleg at the bottom for defensive reasons.

Oh, and no trees within 20' of the bunker. The roots could end up being a problem otherwise.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

I'd put bedroom#2 and the bathroom where the dining room is. That would save the wasted space of the hallway and give easier access to the bathroom as you enter the shelter in case you're muddy or contaminated. So what if doorways are visible--its a shelter not a house.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

I was just thinking about the mention of waterproofing for underground structures and remembered what a guy used on his earth bermed home and that was a cardboard looking material that was made with Bentonite clay, Bentonite clay expands in the presence of water creating a seal from any water getting past it.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

Bentonite if used wrong, can swell and crack a concrete wall. Again I advise to add the stuff to the concrete mix that makes it waterproof. Do a search for waterproof concrete and read accordingly. Too much info to type in here. It also strengthens the concrete by a factor of 2 or more.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

Just reread your plans. How are you going to ventilate the fumes from the batteries?


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*This tank!*

I have seen a couple articles about building these types of tanks, and just found this one.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/build-a-6500-gallon-concrete-water-tank-for-1500/



> Build a 6500-gallon concrete
> water tank for $1500
> By Dorothy Ainsworth
> 
> ...


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

I found out it was a lot cheaper to buy concrete by the truckload instead of bagged crete. Redi mixed, no cold seams. 3 pours, base with water seal plastic, walls with same seal and roof.


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