# General Motors = China Motors



## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm angry, sickened, frustrated, and DEFINITELY not planning on buying a new GM product - even if my taxes already have. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo

I knew they were outsourcing, they all do. I bought a 1993 Suburban new, then when my wife rolled it in January 1996, I bought a new 1996 Suburban, picked it up on March of 1996. Both of those two showed final assembly in GM plants in Wisconsin. When I was at the dealership in May 1996, I saw a new Suburban on display and the window sticker showed final assembly at a Mexican city I can't pronounce. I had known years earlier that Dodge Ramchargers were put together in Mexico. I know now, that Ford's latest and most advanced plant is in Brazil.

But this is just too much. Watch the video with your barf bag handy.

BTW, of the Big Three, GM, Ford and Chrysler, Ford is the only one who turned down the goverment takeover - uhh, I mean _bailout_, preferring to stand or fall on its own.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

Welcome to the new world mate.

such as it is.

Our respective countries let in foreign cars that were much cheaper to produce and sell than our own....People start earning less and buying the cheap offshore cars then more people lose their jobs and the cylce continues untill manufacturing is dead.
In the 60's/70's/80's in australia our 2 most popular cars were locally produced Ford falcon and Holden (gm) commodore. Now both companies are ready to close shop once the gov handouts stop.

.......we really shot ourselves in the foot.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Been going on for a long time. My 1978 F-150 had lots of parts labeled ‘Made in Mexico’, not sure where it was all put together. My 1982 K-20 was ‘Assembled in Canada’ and again had lots of parts manufactured in different countries.

I specifically remember the buzzer under the driver’s seat. I brought the truck, brand new, from the dealers lot to my brother, Mr’ Goodwrench. I handed him the keys and said ‘Hop in!’ I said ‘Hear that noise? (the buzzer). He said yup. I said I never wanted to hear it ever again. He slipped under the driver’s seat and unhooked a little black box ‘Made in Mexico.’


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Ok, I've been working directly and indirectly for Detroit OEM's for a couple of decades. We are in a global economy. If I'm buying a widget for 1.29 from Mexico, and the same widget costs me 1.57 from Nebraska, and I'm buying 250,000 widgets, which am I going to buy? Multiply that times several thousand parts in the car... and you're talking real money. This doesn't mean that it's only a financial issue, there are many issues that impact the decisions, supply chain issues, cultural management issues, part quality, etc etc etc.

CEO of any company #1 responsibility is to increase shareholder value. This does NOT mean increase profits... although that's the metric measuring most public company CEO's. Spending more money to employ domestic employment does not increase shareholder value. I recognize the global picture does not measure how domestic employment impacts local sales.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

The only ones made in America are Subaru, Toyota and BMW.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> The only ones made in America are Subaru, Toyota and BMW.


So, you're discounting all the US mfg plants of Chrysler, Ford, and GM?


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## Fossil (Jan 10, 2013)

It is all over engineered junk anymore no matter who builds it. Can you fix it if it breaks? No. Can you fix it alongside the road? No. Can you even find anything in the engine compartment? Doubtful. But hey, it has a keen cd/tv/video thingamajig....
I made a rule a long time ago-if it doesn't have glass headlights in it I don't want to work on it and I certainly don't want to own it.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

It's all a bunch of krap! Drove my buddies new GMC pickup, aluminum block, aluminum heads, roller cam, direct injection, rack and pinion steering, four wheel disc brakes, 403 hp (net). This thing will out run an '80s Corvette in every way except top speed and that is because it is electronicly governed. Also mostly galvanized so they don't rust out any more, don't have to replace the muffler after a couple of year (actually never) brakes last 100,000 miles and shocks last a least twice as long. Oh yeah, and folks used to brag about gettin' 100,000 miles now you can't brag until you get 300,000 miles, change the oil every 5-10,000 miles and the coolant ever 5 years or so. Krap! Oh for the good ole days, change the coolant every year oil every 1,000 miles and tires that went 20,000 miles.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

We have traded from vehicles designed to be maintained with relatively basic hand tools, to vehicles which do not need as much maintenance, but when they do act up are often repaired using coder readers and other diagnostic equipment to decide which electronic components to replace. 

I can see advantages to both. Our 2007 Corolla just keeps on going. We've put a little maintenance into the 2000 P71 Crown Vic, but it's around 212K and going strong. A few years ago, the 1996 Suburban I bought new, finally had its transfer case let go at 261,000 miles. I still want to fix that case and put it back on the road. Engine does not use a quart between changes. 

But if it comes to getting around after an EMP and with sketchy parts availability, an old pickup is looking good.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Amazing. We still have the P73 '00 Crown Vic bought new. Daughter is driving it at college. Almost no problems. Just had to replace the motor on the blend door on the A/C, $500, ouch! It looks like it will go awhile, engine and trany sound. Still looks good. Daughter said she would rather have graduate school than a new car so well . . .


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

There's much to be said for a proven design. Ford made a lot of those Panther platform cars, for a long time. And I'll bet they learned a lot from the P71 cars in police service, as well as all the taxi fleet cars. I have bought heater fan and a receiver hitch. Bot of those items were the same part from 1979 through 2011, when they made the last Vic. Some parts of that design didn't evolve a heck of a lot. The general word is that the 4.6 is easily a "300,000 mile engine." 

These days, I lean toward "proven," as opposed to new and flashy or "state of the art". I just want it to work, for a very long time.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

HamiltonFelix said:


> These days, I lean toward "proven," as opposed to new and flashy or "state of the art". I just want it to work, for a very long time.


It just doesn't happen very often, anymore. 
The Panther platform is one of only a few/seldom. The other is a Dodge Caravan. I know lots of folks with tight family budgets getting them to last 300K miles.

SWJohnsey, Add Hyundai (Alabama) and Honda (Ohio) to that list. Some items, like the Honda Goldwing and Kawasaki Mule, are almost entirely made in the USA. The Toyota Tundra (San Antonio) has a far higher content of made in USA parts than many people have any idea that they do. It surely is ironic.


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

Yup I am always fending off offers for my 2000 Ford Escort - the next year they re-engineered them and the new ones are not only ugly, they were tons of trouble. Mine is still running perfectly, being one of those made at the end of that model's productions, after they got the bugs out. Its my ace in the hole car, and I will most likely keep it forever.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

LincTex said:


> The Toyota Tundra (San Antonio) has a far higher content of made in USA parts than many people have any idea that they do. It surely is ironic.


you have to be very careful with the "published" NA content. It's not quite as clear as you would hope it to be. Toyota might import an unfinished alternator, might not have a single ground wire attached yet. It is completed in a NA plant, and suddenly the whole alternator is NA content. Automakers struggle with how to calculate the level of content, the D3 have had a tendency to follow the intent of the law, domestically produced imports have a tendency to take advantage of the law. It's one of the most ridiculous laws we have on the books, because it really doesn't mean much.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well the big GM trucks and SUV's are made mostly here or in Canada. But for my money I won't drive any other. They last a long long time with little trouble and the ride is much smoother and more comfortable than Ford Dodge or Toyota. I told my nephew to stick with Honda and Toyota cars and Chevy and GMC trucks and suv's. My BIL recently moved to a new home about 40 miles away from his old one. He borrowed my 04 2500 Silverado. He also has a Nissan truck (the little one) and was amazed that both trucks got the same mileage. I told him the 6.0 in the Chevy didn't have to rev as high to scooter on down the road like his little truck did. Saves gas. So I think he is gonna pick up a man truck now! Plus he also said the ride was much better and that is on a 3/4 ton. If you can't tell I'm a Chevy GMC guy


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

My 1996 K2500 Suburban had 261,000 miles when the transfer case went bad. The 454 engine did not nead any oil between 3,000 mile changes. I still hope to get it back on the road one day. It's the most comfortable 3/4 ton 4x4 I've driven. But for durability and simplicity for suspension modifications, I'd go for solid axles and probably leaf springs. I'm not even impressed with the Twin Tracton Beams" of my 1986 F250. I noticed Ford went back to solid axles in the Super Duty. 

I have been pretty much of a Chevy guy for years (I still miss my 1956 sedan), but I have to admit that all four American truck makers (FOUR, I'm an International guy, too ) have built a lot of good products and a few lemons. It's relatively easy to maintain an American pickup, easy to find parts and there's a big knowledge base out there.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Waiting, waiting.... someone will chime in soon and say FIVE truck makers; there are still some Jeep pickups on the road..


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

HamiltonFelix said:


> I noticed Ford went back to solid axles in the Super Duty.


Probably due to towing capacity.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

partdeux said:


> Probably due to towing capacity.


I was going to say due to ridiculous and chronic camber problems.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

For a long time, we've seen "Ford Front End Disease." The old "Twin I-Beam" or the later 4x4 version, "Twin Traction Beam," both tend to settle when the springs get a bit tired, then they display increasing negative camber. Also, aging front ends tend to wander strangely on the road. It takes a mental adjustment to drive them. Ford made those front ends for a long time; I guess it was their attempt at getting the nice ride of IFS. But I thnk the IFS in my 1996 Suburban rides better. It's not my choice for simplicity and durability. Jeep and others have proven you can get a decent ride with solid axles if you work at it. 

For an offroad truck I favor Unimog's approach, using portal axles, manual diff locks and good suspension travel with in rough terrain. Unimog does not own the portal axle concept any more than it's exclusive to old Farmall A and Farmall Cub tractors. Even the independently sprung Hummvee uses a final drive at each wheel to help ground clearnance, reduce differential size and reduce drive axle angles. I'd like to see it applied to more light and medium rough terrain trucks.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

HamiltonFelix said:


> I'm angry, sickened, frustrated, and DEFINITELY not planning on buying a new GM product - even if my taxes already have.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=Lvl5Gan69Wo
> 
> ...


GM is doing what makes sense for it to do as a company. To expect otherwise makes as much sense as expecting water to flow uphill.

As is typical in a union-friendly video, they don't seem willing to understand that cars sold in China will be made in China. Few people in China can afford a car made in the US. That's just a fact. The video says that 70% of GM's cars are made outside the US. That makes sense. Only 22% of GM's cars are sold in the US.

So the video maker is attempting to slander GM by calling them China Motors. It's really a dishonest hit piece designed to make people mad. GM makes cars and trucks in 37 countries. Not just China. People who are ignorant about economics don't understand that America is becoming very hostile to business. GM won't be paying for Obamacare for it's employees in China.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BillS said:


> People who are ignorant about economics don't understand that America is becoming very hostile to business.


There's a mouthful....


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Yes, I have to agree with that. America is incredibly hostile to business and has driven out its once great manufacturing base. 

Maybe I wouldn't mind it quite to much if there was more good quality out there that was still somewhat affordable. But what we see here is Chinese crap, from tools to cookware to you name it. I hate to think about it, but i believe the Chinese really can make top quality stuff, but they do not sell it to us. Hell, then have space capability equaled by only perhaps three other nations. 

When I think about it, a GM car made to sell affordably in China or India wouldn't come close to meeting our current complex and expensive standards for sale here. But it would sell for a whole lot less, and probably would be at least on par with the somewhat older cars I grew up with and enjoy. 

It does make me mad that our former manufacturing giants have gone overseas, but I guess I should mostly be mad at the government that has run them out.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

HamiltonFelix said:


> It does make me mad that our former manufacturing giants have gone overseas, but I guess I should mostly be mad at the government that has run them out.


I don't own a company, but do work for a large international corp. What impacted the transfer more than anything, is costs. Number one job for CEO is to increase shareholder value. When you have an offshore company quoting 12 weeks and 75,000 to build a tool, what moron would pay 125,000 and wait 22 weeks for the exact same tool?

I could write a book or three, but the bottom line, we are our own worst enemy.


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