# Using goats as an added layer of preparedness



## Balls004

I got a request from one of the members to start a thread about meat goats, and so I'll try to oblige. Although we no longer commercially raise goats, we still keep a few around just in case, as well as we really like to eat goat meat.

At the height of our operation, we were running about 100 breeding does. I also wrote a monthly article on goats for a regional livestock newspaper and was a board member of the Meat Goat Co-op.

Having a small herd of goats is a good addition to people who have smaller properties and want to ensure a meat and milk supply in leaner times. They have been called the poor man's cow and it is a healthy and nutritious meat. More goat is consumed worldwide than beef or pork.

Since I don't know what the folks here know and don't know, *I thought it might be best to let folks ask the questions* and I'll do my best to answer them as best as I can from my experience and knowledge. I'm by no means an expert on the subject of raising meat goats, and see from past posts, that *there are several other members who also have experience with goats who I would like to invite to share their knowledge also*. As with most things, there isn't just one answer.

So ask away, I'll do my best!


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## cnsper

Any disease resistant breeds? We have speed goats here (antelope) and they will transfer diseases at times.

Kinda like in cattle up here, Highlander and Longhorn tend to be disease resistant for most things up here. There are Highlander that have never been vaccinated and they do very well on free ranging.

I have had Boer and I did find the meat very lean but also very bland on flavor. That was ok with me because I can season something the way I like it. Very good in stew and chili


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## Cotton

Ok, first question… Say I had about 100 acres. 40 acres in 3 main pastures, 2 are used for hay and graze. 25 acres of old hardwood, 20 acres semi open with shade grasses growing among older trees and about 15 acres of cut over scrub. I have 2 creeks, several springs and a small pond. I lease another 20+ acres for hay. Approximately what size herd would this land support?

I’m seriously thinking of switching from beef production to goats. A big bull put me in the hospital 2 summers ago… getting to old for this!


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## tsrwivey

We're planning to get a couple Nigerian dwarf dairy goats in the next year or two. The plan is they will be pets until times get lean then we will start breeding & milking them. I have a couple concerns I'd like y'all to address.

1. How much trouble is it to have a male intact goat? I've heard they're aggressive & stinky, we have small kids & grandkids that will be around the goats frequently. Is that combo likely to be a problem?

2. I'm kinda freaked out about dehorning the kids. Is it really that big of an advantage?


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## Balls004

cnsper said:


> Any disease resistant breeds? We have speed goats here (antelope) and they will transfer diseases at times.
> 
> Kinda like in cattle up here, Highlander and Longhorn tend to be disease resistant for most things up here. There are Highlander that have never been vaccinated and they do very well on free ranging.
> 
> I have had Boer and I did find the meat very lean but also very bland on flavor. That was ok with me because I can season something the way I like it. Very good in stew and chili


Boy, y'all are quick!

The simple answer is no, there are no disease resistant breeds of goat. Goats are typically susceptible to the same general diseases that primarily sheep, and to some extent cattle or horses can contract. In most cases though, it is fairly rare for domesticated animals to contract disease from wild animals. It does happen, but I wouldn't lose much sleep over it.

In my opinion, the biggest impact that cohabitation would bring would be in the parasite department. If you are worming your goats effectively, with no outside intrusion, your pasture would remain relatively clean in regards to the amount of parasites available to reinfect your herd. With what little I know about antelope, I imagine even this would be a very small influence.

You can help increase the resistance to disease in almost any animal breed though, and it's pretty simple to do and has other benefits as well. Crossbreed or F1 animals generally tend to be hardier and more disease resistant than pure bred animals. I can't offer you the scientific reasons why, but there is a large amount of research out there that supports the idea. Our purebred Boers never fared as well as our Boer/Pygmy crosses did. Local doe goats, born and bred in your area, crossed with a good buck, would probably give you an animal that is more resistant to any prevalent diseases in your area.

You're right about goat meat being kind of bland too. That's one of the nice things about it. I used to bbq shoulders and though I never failed to tell someone what it was, they couldn't taste any difference from pork shoulder (we chop ours, it wasn't pulled).


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## cnsper

We have a LARGE ranch out here and they run cattle, sheep and goats. All for meat. The goats they raise are Spanish goats. I have been leaning towards hair sheep though. Looks like a goat but tastes like lamb...:yummy:


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## Balls004

Cotton said:


> Ok, first question&#8230; Say I had about 100 acres. 40 acres in 3 main pastures, 2 are used for hay and graze. 25 acres of old hardwood, 20 acres semi open with shade grasses growing among older trees and about 15 acres of cut over scrub. I have 2 creeks, several springs and a small pond. I lease another 20+ acres for hay. Approximately what size herd would this land support?
> 
> I'm seriously thinking of switching from beef production to goats. A big bull put me in the hospital 2 summers ago&#8230; getting to old for this!


Guess we ought to look first at what goats are as eaters. First, they don't really thrive on tin cans and tires. They can, and I have seen it, climb a tree. Goats are not like cattle, sheep or horses. They aren't grazers, they are browsers, more so like deer are. I might be a little fuzzy on the math as it's pretty late, but goats generally eat 60-70% browse vs. the remainder as graze.

Browse is usually considered to be woody type brush like honeysuckle, briers, privet, etc. Graze would be bermuda or other types of grass. That doesn't say that you cannot pasture goats, but it does give you an idea of their nutritional needs. Way back in the day, we brought some high dollar breeding Boers from Texas to Miss. Some of them dang near starved to death in knee high grass before they became acclimated to their new diet. They had been running on a few sections of Texas hill country ranch and because a lot of graze actually is more nutritious than grasses, they couldn't get enough to eat.

It sounds really conservative, and it is, because every part of the country is really different in the lands carrying capacity. I would start out with no more than 5 goats an acre. You should rotate them every 3 to 4 weeks, both to allow regrowth and to limit the parasite load in the pasture. From there, you should be able to adjust the capacity of your land to how many animals you can comfortable stock without having a very robust worming strategy and a lot of supplemental feeding.

Just a side note, I had a lady at the newspaper I wrote for, show me the original deed to her families property from the late 1800's. It had a section that certified that the property had been "goated" to remove the majority of the underbrush prior to the sale. Believe it or not, it still happens today, there is a small industry of people who use temporary pens to eradicate or reduce brush like kudzu and other fun stuff. Goats love kudzu, even if we don't. But kudzu blossom jelly is awesome!


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## Balls004

cnsper said:


> We have a LARGE ranch out here and they run cattle, sheep and goats. All for meat. The goats they raise are Spanish goats. I have been leaning towards hair sheep though. Looks like a goat but tastes like lamb...:yummy:


I've obviously never had mutton, goose, or liver fixed right, because I've never acquired the taste for them. Back up, I had a gyro once that I think might have been mutton that was awesome!

I do love some good goat though.


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## jeff47041

Even though I raised goats a long time ago, I know next to nothing about goats, and even less about milking.

I'm curious of what a breed is that I can milk one goat, and eat her offspring? I like the idea of bland tasting, over tasting like lamb. 

I'm also wondering about the whole thing of letting the milk goat dry up before they kid. Let's say the goat has 3 little ones eating off of her, can I also milk her, and take a quarter of the milk? Then, when the kids are weaned, I keep milking, and take it all. Then, when do I have to stop milking to let her have a break before birthing again? Or before rebreeding? Or is it even necessary to stop milking her?


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## Balls004

tsrwivey said:


> We're planning to get a couple Nigerian dwarf dairy goats in the next year or two. The plan is they will be pets until times get lean then we will start breeding & milking them. I have a couple concerns I'd like y'all to address.
> 
> 1. How much trouble is it to have a male intact goat? I've heard they're aggressive & stinky, we have small kids & grandkids that will be around the goats frequently. Is that combo likely to be a problem?
> 
> 2. I'm kinda freaked out about dehorning the kids. Is it really that big of an advantage?


Wivey, we really haven't had much of a problem with our breeding bucks as far as being aggressive. They pretty much know that they rule the roost in the goat hierarchy and so just kind of lounge around like a bachelor king in the Riviera. During the breeding season, when the does start coming in, some would become a little more aggressive and bear watching, but any of ours that crossed the line, got hit with a hotshot and backed down pretty quickly. Plus, when you're servicing anywhere from 50 to 100 does, you don't have much energy for anything else.

In all our years, we only had one who I would consider truly aggressive and I think it was more to do with the folks who gave him to us let him get away with it to begin with. He was a full grown, 250+ lb Boer that was 4 or 5 when we got him because they had gotten so scared of him (they even had his horns sawed off by the vet). He quickly learned better manners via electricity and the fact that I used to calf rope and knew how to flank him to the ground. He did come after my wife one day, while she had a shovel in her hand, and after getting hit across the horn bosses once or twice decided she was meaner than he was.

When the does start coming into season, which is usually anywhere from September to as late as November, most bucks are going to urinate on their beards and underside and front legs, which is what makes them stink so bad. The girl goats seem to think of this like Stetson cologne mixed with some chinese aphrodisiac. We only had a couple of bucks that stayed smelly most of the time, the rest returned to relatively normal smells once the rut was over.

Most goats are pretty mild mannered, especially when there aren't a lot of them and they are treated more like pets than farmstock. I don't think it's a good idea to let really young children in any pens during the breeding season, not because the goats are going to try to hurt them, but because there is a fair amount of chasing going on, and most little kids don't make very good speed bumps if they get caught in the middle of bucks chasing does. I think that the most care should be taken during the kidding, when those cute cuddly babies are hitting the ground. Some momma's can get pretty territorial and protective of their kids, while others don't mind at all. A lot depends on how much handling the does are used to. We never had a problem with our daughter who as in pre-k being in with the nannies and babies, but we also knew which ones were likely to butt her and could keep them safely apart. But any momma goat will butt you, your kids, a wayward Lab puppy or anything else if she takes a mind to it. 









I don't recommend dehorning goats personally. For one thing, they make great handles, and if you're keeping them where there might be predators, some will use them effectively enough to drive a predator off.


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## Balls004

I put a picture in the last post, but I can't see it. I uploaded it to the livestock photo album if anyone else can't see the pic either. I'll figure out how to do it right at some point. Sorry


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## Balls004

jeff47041 said:


> Even though I raised goats a long time ago, I know next to nothing about goats, and even less about milking.
> 
> I'm curious of what a breed is that I can milk one goat, and eat her offspring? I like the idea of bland tasting, over tasting like lamb.
> 
> I'm also wondering about the whole thing of letting the milk goat dry up before they kid. Let's say the goat has 3 little ones eating off of her, can I also milk her, and take a quarter of the milk? Then, when the kids are weaned, I keep milking, and take it all. Then, when do I have to stop milking to let her have a break before birthing again? Or before rebreeding? Or is it even necessary to stop milking her?


Jeff, I really don't have much experience in milk goats, although I have milked my share of them and love fresh goat milk.

My take on it is, first thing to do is make sure that the kid(s) get the colostrum as soon as possible. This milk contains the antibodies and nutrients to get a kid started off right. There is a waxy plug or dam in the nipple, and sometimes you have to remove that by working the teat until you get milk if the kids are weak, or cold and wet, etc.

After the kids have nursed a couple of days, you can always separate them from their momma and bottle feed them, while milking the doe. This works well if both are does, but I think most people would get too attached to a bottle baby buck to eat him later. If you're okay with that, then you should be good to go. Better check with your other half if you've got one before going down that road though. And be warned, bottle babies end up usually being a real pain in the butt later in life...They don't think they're goats a lot of time and they get real vocal!

The milk breeds crossed to the meat breeds give a good bit more milk, at least 25% more on average. That being said, most of the does that we've milked for one reason or another have provided at least a quart to a half gallon, even if they still have a kid feeding off of them. A doe that has lost her kids, can usually easily give close to a gallon a day.

If a doe has three kids eating off her, it's probably going to take everything she can produce to keep them fed. I wouldn't try to milk her.

I'm guessing here, but I'd say that you should dry a doe off (stop milking her) at least a couple or three months before being bred back, so that the kids can get the best start and she's had some time to build back her reserves. Someone who knows more about this might be able to chime in.


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## Starcreek

cnsper said:


> Any disease resistant breeds? We have speed goats here (antelope) and they will transfer diseases at times.
> 
> Kinda like in cattle up here, Highlander and Longhorn tend to be disease resistant for most things up here. There are Highlander that have never been vaccinated and they do very well on free ranging.
> 
> I have had Boer and I did find the meat very lean but also very bland on flavor. That was ok with me because I can season something the way I like it. Very good in stew and chili


Kiko goats are a meat goat that were specifically bred for hardiness and rapid weight gain. Here is a video about them:






They are parasite resistant. Many are never dewormed, and seem to thrive even so. They are good mothers with easy deliveries and multiple births. An Peischel is an expert on Kikos, so if you google anything by her it should be very informative.

My experience is primarily with dairy goats, but we did buy a Kiko doe from An, and a Boer buck to breed her to. They are -- just as billed -- very hardy and productive. They also have excellent udders, and I have wondered about milking them.

An also has some good information about raising goats entirely on BROWSE -- no hay or feed. She says that if you have a good, bushy field with lots of browse (blackberry briers, chicory, clover, small saplings, etc.), you can run 2 goats per acre with no additional feed.


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## Starcreek

jeff47041 said:


> Even though I raised goats a long time ago, I know next to nothing about goats, and even less about milking.
> 
> I'm curious of what a breed is that I can milk one goat, and eat her offspring? I like the idea of bland tasting, over tasting like lamb.
> 
> I'm also wondering about the whole thing of letting the milk goat dry up before they kid. Let's say the goat has 3 little ones eating off of her, can I also milk her, and take a quarter of the milk? Then, when the kids are weaned, I keep milking, and take it all. Then, when do I have to stop milking to let her have a break before birthing again? Or before rebreeding? Or is it even necessary to stop milking her?


Normally, we let the kids nurse for a week, then remove them and feed them a bottle. There are two benefits to this method:


You have more control over the milk.
The kids are raised very human-friendly.
You don't need to do this with meat goats, but any dairy animal needs to be able to cooperate with the person milking them, so I consider bottle-raising essential.

Yes, we let the does dry off for 2 months before they kid (usually from Christmas until about the end of February). This is necessary for their body to build up the reserves necessary to produce a healthy kid and plentiful milk.

If you bottle-feed the kids, the greater part of the milk for the first 2 months will go to raising the kids. You want them to get a good start. Goats only have TWO TEATS, but they generally have from 1 to 5 kids at a time. While most of my goats have had 1-3 kids, I did have one that had 4, and to be honest, it nearly crippled her! She could hardly walk that last couple of weeks. At the rate most goats produce kids, you can double your milking herd every year. The young males you can castrate (we band ours with one of those big rubber bands you get on a bunch of broccoli from the store) and raise them for meat.

Disbudding (burning the horn buds before the horns appear) is not difficult once you learn how. We disbudded all our dairy goats, but not the meat goats.


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## Starcreek

Balls004 said:


> I'm guessing here, but I'd say that you should dry a doe off (stop milking her) at least a couple or three months before being bred back, so that the kids can get the best start and she's had some time to build back her reserves. Someone who knows more about this might be able to chime in.


Dairy goats generally breed in the fall (September-November), just like deer. In fact, it's called "the rut." Gestation is 5 months. They kid in the early spring, and then don't come in heat again until fall rolls around.


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## Grimm

Thank you, to all the goat folks posting here! 

I have some goat experience but not with breeding and removing the horns. I am finding this thread educational. We are planning to get some goats once the big move happens. K just doesn't know it yet.


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## Balls004

Grimm said:


> Thank you, to all the goat folks posting here!
> 
> I have some goat experience but not with breeding and removing the horns. I am finding this thread educational. We are planning to get some goats once the big move happens. K just doesn't know it yet.


Birthday Surprise? Guess what's in the box honey!

:scratch


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## Grimm

Balls004 said:


> Birthday Surprise? Guess what's in the box honey!
> 
> :scratch


I always tell K I want a bunch of "kids"...!


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## Cotton

How many does can one boer effectively handle? Say a herd of 300 does, how many boers?


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## Balls004

Cotton said:


> How many does can one boer effectively handle? Say a herd of 300 does, how many boers?


Depends on how far they have to chase them...lol

If they are in smaller pens, a buck can easily breed 50 does. More than that, the buck will start getting pretty worn down. If they are in a large enclosure, I'd start adding bucks.


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## Cotton

Balls004 said:


> Depends on how far they have to chase them...lol


Now that's funny! 

I thought pen size might be an issue. I may have to create some smaller pastures.

Side note, something I've seen on tv once. A lady with a horse trailer taking small herds of goats to kudzu patches and renting to the county... Do you know anyone who has made money doing that? She was using temporary electric fencing ect. Which brings up water, on average how much for a pregnant doe per day?


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## Starcreek

Cotton said:


> Now that's funny!
> 
> I thought pen size might be an issue. I may have to create some smaller pastures.
> 
> Side note, something I've seen on tv once. A lady with a horse trailer taking small herds of goats to kudzu patches and renting to the county... Do you know anyone who has made money doing that? She was using temporary electric fencing ect. Which brings up water, on average how much for a pregnant doe per day?


I saw someone in California that did that some time ago. Don't remember who they were, but they were doing it for a living.


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## mojo4

cnsper said:


> We have a LARGE ranch out here and they run cattle, sheep and goats. All for meat. The goats they raise are Spanish goats. I have been leaning towards hair sheep though. Looks like a goat but tastes like lamb...:yummy:


Agreed! Goat milk isn't too bad and goats cheese is very tasty! As for the meat I prefer lamb but beggars can't be choosers!!


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## Grimm

Starcreek said:


> I saw someone in California that did that some time ago. Don't remember who they were, but they were doing it for a living.


Around here (California) goat farmers rent out their herds to keep vacant lots and fields clear of tumble weed.


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## Balls004

Cotton, I don't know anyone personally who has run one of the goat brush control operations. It's been around for many years now, and is an interesting concept. If you are interested in doing it, or just looking for temporary fencing, Premier Supply is a good place to start.

http://www.premier1supplies.com/c/fencing/

Good question on the water requirements for pregnant does. I'll have to do some research on that one. We've always had ponds available, and the water troughs get filled up when they get low. So I really don't have any idea.


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## Starcreek

tsrwivey said:


> We're planning to get a couple Nigerian dwarf dairy goats in the next year or two. The plan is they will be pets until times get lean then we will start breeding & milking them. I have a couple concerns I'd like y'all to address.
> 
> 1. How much trouble is it to have a male intact goat? I've heard they're aggressive & stinky, we have small kids & grandkids that will be around the goats frequently. Is that combo likely to be a problem?
> 
> 2. I'm kinda freaked out about dehorning the kids. Is it really that big of an advantage?


Nigerian Dwarfs have the highest butterfat, on average, of any of the dairy breeds, which makes it better for cheesemaking and gives it a wonderful, sweet taste. That said, ND's are smaller goats, so you don't get as high production and imo the teats are really small. If you have arthritis, this last point could be a killer! The bigger the teats, the easier to milk.

A full-size dairy goat will give about 3 quarts of milk -- on average -- per day through their lactation (310 days, normally). Some days more, some days less, and there is a production curve that varies from goat to goat. Some drop off right after their kids are weaned (or would be weaned). Some have a long, level lactation, and some can be milked right on through 2 years or more without stop.

Regarding disbudding..... It's really not that big a deal. My better half and I do it together. We use 2 non-electric disbudding irons:









http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Non-Electric-Iron.html

First, we make up a bottle of milk, as comfort food for when we're done. (This only works with bottle babies, which all our dairy goats are.) We bring the kids in the kitchen, where the irons are already hot on the burner of the stove. We take the clippers and shave where the buds are -- partly to make it more clear where the buds are located, since at 2 weeks they haven't broken through the skin yet, and partly to reduce the smell from burnt hair. Then one holds the kid, with one arm around the animal's body and the other arm firmly holding the head. (They will jerk when you start burning them.)

The other person will then press firmly down on the bud and count _slowly_ 10 "thousands" (i.e., "One thousand. Two thousand. Three thousand..."), while carefully rocking the iron around and around the bud. You want to get a nice copper ring ALL THE WAY AROUND THE BUD. If you don't do it right, it will grow back, and you'll have it to do all over again!

The kid will kick and holler, but it's okay. When you're done with one bud, make sure it has a good copper ring, then burn the second one.

When done, give the bottle. The baby will be fine. Trust me, I've been disbudded. I have a scar on one hand and a scar on one forearm, where the kid jerked and the iron burnt me! It really doesn't hurt much, because the intense heat cauterizes the spot, killing the nerve endings.

The buds will fall off in a week or two. Some people give a tetanus shot when they disbud, for safety's sake, but we've disbudded dozens of kids over the years, and never had any health problems for it, ever.

ETA: Oh yeah, regarding question #1.... A buck is necessary for the herd to grow, or to get any milk at all. No breeding = No kids + no milk. That said, the buck can be dangerous, especially during the rut. Just like a bull or a stallion, a buck goat can be aggressive and territorial. Even the ones that are real sweeties under normal circumstances can be dangerous during the rut. Most goat people keep their bucks in a separate pen that is built like Leavenworth. If you don't make it inescapable, they will find a way out! They only stink during the rut.


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## moldy

A


> round here (California) goat farmers rent out their herds to keep vacant lots and fields clear of tumble weed.


I had no idea goats would eat tumbleweed. Hmmm..... might have to do some thinking on that.


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## Balls004

One of our pygmy does just had her first baby, a little girl. Of course it's pouring down rain. We lost a good bit of our feed shed roof to the snow/sleet/ice storm 3 days ago, so we had to improvise a little spot for them away from the other animals. I'll get a pic of her on here in a bit. Goat babies are always cute.


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## Balls004

Here's the little one...


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## Starcreek

Congratulations! Pretty baby.


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## Cotton

Balls004 said:


> One of our pygmy does just had her first baby, a little girl. Of course it's pouring down rain. We lost a good bit of our feed shed roof to the snow/sleet/ice storm 3 days ago, so we had to improvise a little spot for them away from the other animals. I'll get a pic of her on here in a bit. Goat babies are always cute.


Congrats... to funny. When I read this post earlier I was having pygmy goat for supper!! 

My neighbor dropped off a plate. It was a little tough but tasty, cooked in a dutch oven covered in coals. Lots of potatoes and carrots.


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## valannb22

We have 2 little pygmies and a nigerian/nubian mix doe. As far as disbudding, is it safe to use the banding method? I've seen some people talk about it and I think it would be easier. Also, when feeding bottle babies, do you use the goat milk replacer? I've also seen talk of people using just plain old whole cow's milk from the store. Does that work? One of our pygmies was a bottle baby, but we used the replacer and I was just wondering for future reference if it makes a difference.


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## Balls004

valannb22 said:


> We have 2 little pygmies and a nigerian/nubian mix doe. As far as disbudding, is it safe to use the banding method? I've seen some people talk about it and I think it would be easier. Also, when feeding bottle babies, do you use the goat milk replacer? I've also seen talk of people using just plain old whole cow's milk from the store. Does that work? One of our pygmies was a bottle baby, but we used the replacer and I was just wondering for future reference if it makes a difference.


I can't answer about the disbudding, I've done a little, but only on other peoples goats. Starcreek probably knows way more about this.

As far as feeding the bottle babies, they need milk replacer. It has a higher fat content and quite a bit more nutrients that young goats need to grow healthy than whole milk. Plus at around 4 dollars and some change a gallon, I would think that would get expensive real quick.


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## lazydaisy67

My experience with milk replacer is that it gives them scours. The few times I had bottle babies I changed from replacer to Vitamin D, but those were babies I had purchased. The only reason I would bottle feed is if the mama died during or after birth or if the mama refused to let the baby nurse, in which case I'd milk her and feed it to the baby. I leave my babies on for much longer than most because they seem to thrive better than when they're weaned too soon. Generally they're weaned by 8 weeks by their mother, but I am milking her by then so there's not much for them to get. I rarely 'pull' them off their mothers.
I have both horned and dehorned goats. Like the ones without horns better. I've gotten poked in the gut too many times to like those horns and they really hurt when they're coming full force at your behind.
You have to learn how to trim their hooves too. I use a hedge trimming scissors. Pull babies if need be, but only if the mother is in obvious distress. I leave them the hell alone during labor and delivery unless there's some emergency that needs to be addressed, which isn't all that common. I had one doe one time have a prolapsed uterus after giving birth and the vet did have to come out to get that back in, but in a SHTF situation I would put her down. You have to be capable of know when it's a good thing to try to help and when you have to put an animal out of it's misery. 
We just had twins on Sunday. The second one came out back feet first. I watched and waited and was ready if I was needed, but she slid right out. I DO pop the bag if they're born in the cull, but other than that I let the mother lick them and do what she knows to do. Baby goats are the cutest!


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## Grimm

Enough is enough, folks! If you have goats (or babies for that matter) start posting the pictures! You are making me squirm without my 'kid' fix!


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## Starcreek

lazydaisy67 said:


> I leave them the hell alone during labor and delivery unless there's some emergency that needs to be addressed, which isn't all that common.


I agree with lazydaisy67 on this ^.
Most of the time, a nervous goatherd will intervene when there's no need, and just make them worse. Generally, if we let nature take its course, there's no problem. I think in maybe 100-200 births I've been involved in, we only had one problem....a breech birth that a friend helped us get out. Not a single death of mother or kid that I can recall.

I disagree, however, about bottle-feeding the kids. I've used replacer before, with no problems, but our normal procedure is to leave the kids on their mother for one week, unless the mother just won't nurse them, and then bottle feed on goats' milk for 3 months (or until they reject the bottle). This makes the kids very people-friendly and allows us more control over the use of the milk. Never had any stunted kids or sickness from this. I don't feed medicated feed, but if you keep the kids in with the adult goats they sometimes get Coccidiosis -- which is a population explosion of a normal gut bacteria when a goat eats goat poop. This generally only happens if you feed them on the ground, or a kid is in with adults and sticks nasty stuff in its mouth. I treat the disease, but I don't give antibiotics on a regular basis unless they're sick.

Okay, here are a couple of pictures:










Week-old kids -- Nubian (left) and Lamancha-Nubian cross (right).










Nubian doeling, about 8-9 months old.

lazydaisy, congratulations on the twins!


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## Starcreek

*More goat pictures*









Nubian-Kiko cross









Nubian buck (2 yrs. old) with his kids.









Nubian kids.


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## smaj100

Anyone near enough to TN with some Nubian or cross kid does for sale? Trying to find some kids is like finding the winning powerball ticket. lol


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## Starcreek

smaj100 said:


> Anyone near enough to TN with some Nubian or cross kid does for sale? Trying to find some kids is like finding the winning powerball ticket. lol


If you're on Facebook, there is a very active group on there of dairy goat people. They have a file with breeders listed by state....

ALL ABOUT DAIRY GOATS (WITHOUT ANYONE'S DRAMA)


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## smaj100

Thanks Starcreek


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## lazydaisy67

The only other thing I would say about learning is if you ask 10 goat owners a question, you will get 50 different answers. Some have a strict protocol that they follow with worming, vaccinations, kidding, breeding, etc. I tried that starting out and it overwhelmed me. After about 4 years I feel I have a system that works well for me and my "program". I asked lots of questions at first and tried to read a lot and joined a forum. After I figured out what made me comfortable, how my goats looked and working a little bit with my vet, I feel like I have a system that is good for me and my herd. It's not fancy, it's not expensive, but it works. 
It's all good, goats are a blast to own and goat owners are pretty nice people as a general rule.


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## Starcreek

*Question about meat goats.....*

Has anyone had success selling meat goats? Can you make a profit off them?


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## *Andi

Starcreek said:


> Has anyone had success selling meat goats? Can you make a profit off them?


My hubby had over 60 boer goats once. (never again )

and ~ We did well with wethers and some bucks around Easter... More times than not we would sell out. (but not always)

Any left over after Easter went to market. (which was hit or miss)


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## Starcreek

*Andi said:


> My hubby had over 60 boer goats once. (never again )
> 
> and ~ We did well with wethers and some bucks around Easter... More times than not we would sell out. (but not always)
> 
> Any left over after Easter went to market. (which was hit or miss)


How did you market them -- through newspaper ads, word of mouth, or what?

(Why do you say never again?)


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## Balls004

You can make a profit off of selling meat goats, but it is like any other livestock endeavor, you've got to manage your inputs and some years are going to be fat and some lean.

We had a large word of mouth network among our local hispanic population, and typically sold out of our 50-60 lb wethers at a dollar a pound live on the hoof. At most, we would take maybe 20 or 30 to the auction where the price could be a little better depending on market conditions, but was usually more like 60-80 cents a pound plus charges. 

My advice is to find a meat goat producer in your area and learn everything you can before trying it on anything other than a small scale.

Good luck


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## jeff47041

Starcreek said:


> Has anyone had success selling meat goats? Can you make a profit off them?


Twenty something years ago, I had 5 does and a buck. I had a solar electric fence around a 3 acre woods that had a pond in the middle. Every year, each doe would have triplets. Once a year, I would load up those 15 goats and take them to a livestock auction in Knightstown, IN. I would get $75 for each goat.

I always had hay for them in winter, and maybe spent $200 a year on a little supplemental feed for them. They kept that woods and around the pond cleaned up, and I made around $800/ year off of them.

One day, a pack of dogs came through and wiped them all out. That was the end of that.


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## Starcreek

*Just for fun*


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## LincTex

Starcreek said:


> Has anyone had success selling meat goats? Can you make a profit off them?


http://www.meatgoatblog.com/meat_goat_blog/marketing-your-goats/

http://www.hobbyfarms.com/livestock-and-pets/raising-meat-goats-25028.aspx


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## Starcreek

*Goats for rent to reduce rural fire hazard*

_George Warren, KXTV __8:09 p.m. PDT April 16, 2015

_EL DORADO COUNTY - As California enters what could be the worst fire season on record, rented goats are helping rural homeowners make their property fire safe.

"Goats are just one tool in the toolbox of vegetation management," said Roy Austin, who keeps a herd of 300 kiko goats and rents them out through his company Goat Central.

Each goat eats roughly 10 pounds of vegetation per day, Austin said. If kept in a confined area, they will clear even stubborn brush down to bare dirt.

*More.*

*Portland Airport Hires 40 Goats, Lone Llama To Clear Shrubs And Thistles*

_Suzy Strutner Associate Lifestyle Editor










_Portland International Airport this week hired a fleet of 40 goats to eat unwanted blackberry plants, thistles and shrubs near the airfield, local news station KWG reports.

While the goats munch away, a lone llama will fend off predators like coyotes.

It's all a plan to clear invasive plants from airport grounds without having to spray herbicides or pull weeds by hand.

*More*.


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## smaj100

Well we finally picked up our new goat girlys and their little brother.  Babies are about a month old now and will be weaned soon. The woman we got them from has been pulling about a 1/2 gallon a day even while she's nursing the kids. We are going to watch her tonight and see how full she is in the morning. We are super excited to finally have them here.


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## *Andi

Starcreek said:


> How did you market them -- through newspaper ads, word of mouth, or what?
> 
> (Why do you say never again?)


Our market was for the most part ... word of mouth (goat folks know each other ), along with ads on the feed store board.

As for why I would never want to do it again ... I'm older and wiser now.  You need to keep in mind also that I had a herd of milking goats also ... and sheep ... horses ... cows ... chickens ... garden ... etc. ...


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## Balls004

There is a huge difference in raising goats depending on where you are. Goats that are in semi arid regions need less foot maintenance, have less parasite problems, and can thrive easier than goats raised in much better forage areas without as much human intervention. 

Anytime you can keep a goat eating above 14 inches, you've drastically reduced the parasite load. The key thing to remember is that goats are browsers, not grazers. You can raise goats in pastures, but it actually ends up making more work for you. I'm not sure of the source of the study, I think it was Texas A&M, but the weight gain difference between goats raised strictly on browse, versus pasture, was almost the same. 

Rocky ground eliminates a lot of foot trimming, but if it is wet, like we are, you're going to have cases of foot rot. In that case, for a small herd, Coppertox and trimming works well. If you have a larger herd, a copper sulfate foot bath helps, if you can arrange your pens with choke points where they have to go through it. I came up with an idea that I never implemented, to help keep the hooves trimmed if you don't live in a rocky area. String a section of chain link fence about a 100 ft long and pour roughed up concrete pads (about 2 ft wide) on each side. Goats love to rub up against chain link, particularly in the spring when they're shedding, and they should be able to wear down their hooves at the same time. If anyone tries it, let me know if it works!


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## gebhardsdairy72

Can goats be Aggressive on eating blackberry thorns and brush?


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## Balls004

gebhardsdairy72 said:


> Can goats be Aggressive on eating blackberry thorns and brush?


Yes, goats will eat thorny brush, and eventually kill it because they only eat the leaves and thornless shoots.


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## Starcreek

*Pregnant goats*

God willing, my does are all pregnant, and kids should start hitting the ground by the first of February. I was on another dairy goat site, and someone explained a really simple way to see if they're pregnant or not. Goats have a rumen, and when it's full of food, it bulges out -- mainly on the LEFT side. The doe will carry the babies primarily on her RIGHT side.

So, looking at the goat from behind, the babies will be on her right and the rumen will be on her left.

A great mnemonic device is to remember is:
*
Lunch on left,
Rugrats on right.*



Everybody have a great kidding season....and may they be mostly does.


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## BillM

*Goats are great*

They can be used for milk , cheese, meat, and as wives for Islamic warriors .

Fortunately, the goats will be able to wear the same clothing as the other wives belonging to the warriors.


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## Balls004

It's sheep...

Not goats. They have way too much class...


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## bigg777

...................


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## smaj100

Goats for preparedness, We raise nubians and something those who have never raised livestock of any kind might not be considering is the noise. 

Our goats scream bloody murder when its time to feed, milk, they are lonely, in heat or just in general when they see people... When the goats aren't screaming you can easily hear the cows in the different fields around our 100 acres homestead that are at least 1/2 mile away from our farm. My point is if you aren't in a rural setting it might be extremely hard to hide your animals from 2 legged predators...

Bigg that was some funny stuff right there.


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## Grimm

smaj100 said:


> Goats for preparedness, We raise nubians and something those who have never raised livestock of any kind might not be considering is the noise.
> 
> Our goats scream bloody murder when its time to feed, milk, they are lonely, in heat or just in general when they see people... When the goats aren't screaming you can easily hear the cows in the different fields around our 100 acres homestead that are at least 1/2 mile away from our farm. My point is if you aren't in a rural setting it might be extremely hard to hide your animals from 2 legged predators...
> 
> Bigg that was some funny stuff right there.


Chickens can be rather load too. My girls (no roosters) make the biggest racket when they see me come through the gate. I visit with them several times a day and you'd think they were ignored the way they carry on! Spoiled rotten cluckers!

I'd love to have goats but our orchard is not 100% secured so they are a no go. I have worked with goats when I was a child on the farm but not since then.


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## smaj100

Grimm said:


> Chickens can be rather load too. My girls (no roosters) make the biggest racket when they see me come through the gate. I visit with them several times a day and you'd think they were ignored the way they carry on! Spoiled rotten cluckers!
> 
> I'd love to have goats but our orchard is not 100% secured so they are a no go. I have worked with goats when I was a child on the farm but not since then.


You could always build a smaller separate enclosure for the goats, our chickens mainly the roo's are noisy but the girls don't make too much of a ruckus. They do come running when we drive through the gate to the house and expect treats.


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## Grimm

smaj100 said:


> You could always build a smaller separate enclosure for the goats, our chickens mainly the roo's are noisy but the girls don't make too much of a ruckus. They do come running when we drive through the gate to the house and expect treats.


The 'orchard' is the area where any goats would have the most room or grazing ability. There is a small section on the side that is not closed in. We have been planning to fence it in then the dogs could have the orchard to play in unless we got goats.

But with all the issues we are having with neighbors I'm going to keep it simple and stick with chickens for now. (I just discovered that I am missing bags of feed and supplies from our supply shed near the coop. we had eggs go missing a while back but then I locked the coop and run tighter that a maximum security prison.)


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## smaj100

Grimm said:


> The 'orchard' is the area where any goats would have the most room or grazing ability. There is a small section on the side that is not closed in. We have been planning to fence it in then the dogs could have the orchard to play in unless we got goats.
> 
> But with all the issues we are having with neighbors I'm going to keep it simple and stick with chickens for now. (I just discovered that I am missing bags of feed and supplies from our supply shed near the coop. we had eggs go missing a while back but then I locked the coop and run tighter that a maximum security prison.)


That sucks. Might be time to set some non lethal booby traps for your supply shed. Some party poppers on trip wires or a small electrical fence setup without the obvious warning signs....


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## Grimm

smaj100 said:


> That sucks. Might be time to set some non lethal booby traps for your supply shed. Some party poppers on trip wires or a small electrical fence setup without the obvious warning signs....


I moved the feed back in to the garage today when I noticed a few missing. Once I figure out if the thief knows our schedule or is coming at night I am going to rig the shed with a shrieking siren alarm. And lock it tighter than it is now. I think it is our neighbor because he seems to show signs of being a tweeker.


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## smaj100

It's a shame you are in CA. Around these parts stealing feed or messing with ones livestock is a capital offense on my property and a sheriff's deputy wouldn't think twice.


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## Grimm

smaj100 said:


> It's a shame you are in CA. Around these parts stealing feed or messing with ones livestock is a capital offense on my property and a sheriff's deputy wouldn't think twice.


The goal is to move out of state in a few years.


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## Starcreek

Grimm said:


> I moved the feed back in to the garage today when I noticed a few missing. Once I figure out if the thief knows our schedule or is coming at night I am going to rig the shed with a shrieking siren alarm. And lock it tighter than it is now. I think it is our neighbor because he seems to show signs of being a tweeker.


Try caltrops.


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## BillM

*Bad Neighbors*



Grimm said:


> I moved the feed back in to the garage today when I noticed a few missing. Once I figure out if the thief knows our schedule or is coming at night I am going to rig the shed with a shrieking siren alarm. And lock it tighter than it is now. I think it is our neighbor because he seems to show signs of being a tweeker.


Years ago when I was in the Sheriff's Department, I took a call from an old man who told me that his neighbor was stealing his gasoline.

The neighbor was an alcoholic Hillbilly that lived next door in a loft of a barn with his wife , thirteen year old daughter and her boy friend.

I asked the old man how he knew it was the neighbor and he told me he had got up in the middle of the night and almost caught him.

He showed me the gas can and syphon hose he had left behind. The can was almost full and he had left it that way to show me.

He could not positively state that he saw the neighbor so I was not able to make an arrest on suspicion alone.

I suggested that he put about a pound of sugar in the gas can and leave it out as he had stated that his neighbor would just come and retrieve it when he was asleep.

The next day the can was gone and his neighbor's car locked up. They got someone to help them tow it back to the barn and worked all night putting an other engine in it.

When they fired it up, it also locked up. The neighbor blamed the daughter's boy friend and run him off after a pretty bad fistfight.

Another buddy of the neighbor that hung around there and drank with them had two of his chainsaws lock up.

The old man put a locked gas cap on his truck but the neighbor never made the connection between the gas he stole and his engine locking up.

Justice served ! artydance:


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## smaj100

All is right in our goaty world. 2 of our 3 does we bred delivered their kids a week apart. Our 3yo nanny gave us twins a healthy girl and a little runt of a buckling. He struggled but is doing better now. Our FF gave us healthy twins boy and girl 8lbs ea. The wife had to go in and help her as she was struggling to get the big kids out.

Our older nanny has a huge udder, and makes lots of milk. So we've been taking off enough for our bottle baby and building a stash in the fridge. I tried some tonight for the 1st time, she's 8 days fresh and the milk is perfect. So as I wash down my pbj sammich and chase it with a glass of fresh goats milk, I'm feeling very thankful.


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## IceFire

moldy said:


> A
> 
> I had no idea goats would eat tumbleweed. Hmmm..... might have to do some thinking on that.


I had NO idea they'd eat tumbleweeds. I'll have to take them out for a walk (Miss Dolly and little Star-man both have collars on, an I can easily clip the horses' lead lines to them) and take them out to clear out the tumbleweeds growing all over my property.


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## Balls004

smaj100 said:


> Our older nanny has a huge udder, and makes lots of milk. So we've been taking off enough for our bottle baby and building a stash in the fridge. I tried some tonight for the 1st time, she's 8 days fresh and the milk is perfect. So as I wash down my pbj sammich and chase it with a glass of fresh goats milk, I'm feeling very thankful.


Try the milk with some homemade dutch oven cobbler... It will almost make you want to become a goat dairy full time! We love it when a doe has a single kid or large udders and we get fresh milk. If you get enough to make butter, try that too, with just a hint of salt. It's like heaven almost on a hot biscuit.


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## smaj100

Balls, we made butter last year and didn't get enough salt in it, it went rancid really quick on the counter. We made some cheeses last year and tried yogurt and will be making more now that we have milk. The cream separator we bought last year is worth its weight in gold. Makes getting all the cream soooo easy.


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