# Walmart and their future vehicle



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Walmart is working towards a whole new level of transport vehicles ...






What do you think?


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

May the force be with them? :nuts:


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm all for Walmart coming up with a better vehicle, they haul a lot of stuff on the roadways and create the need for a lot of road repair. Plus at least it seems like they're doing something, unlike the US government. Since semi-abandoning the train system and going to tractors and trailers has there really been any improvement? Just like with cars there's really no profit margin in making them more efficient.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I like the fact that Walmart is actively deciding to do something different, and, it could create a whole new level of industry here in North America - parts-n-supplies for a new truck will revamp so many aging designs.

I love the fact that they are using a micro-sized turbine motor as an electrical generator and then running massive amounts of torque to the wheels directly via electrical connections. Think of it as being designed on the traditional locomotive - where their diesel motors are nothing more than massive electrical generators driving the wheels directly ... maybe the rail-system could become more efficient as well by moving to the turbines ... 


I am liking these ideas presented!


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

The center console steering will take some getting used to. As far as the customizing the gauges, well, okay.
Sliding tractor cab door? Finally someone listened to a driver.

Lighter and stronger material has been elusive for the last 50 years. Now that someone can make it with carbon fiber is a real genius achievement!

Now if only the sleeper berth is made for drivers and not the manufacturer, or the truck company. I want one of those trucks.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> Walmart is working towards a whole new level of transport vehicles ...
> 
> What do you think?


Sure, why not.
It's just another notch in their belt in the grand plan to take over the world.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

No Radiator? I would love to know how they are cooling the engine? I wonder if we will ever see one on the road?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

RevWC said:


> No Radiator? I would love to know how they are cooling the engine? I wonder if we will ever see one on the road?


I honestly have never noticed a turbine motor with a radiator before ...

Here is a video on the building of a micro turbine ...






Hope that the video will help you understand the mechanics of it all.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Kenworth tried the turbine engine with a conventional driveline way back in the early 1950s, it was a dismal failure then. Mack tried it in the 1980s, they burned 2 x the fuel of a reciprocating engine and the heat produced was unmanageable. This mess looks like another global warming solution, maybe I am being cynical but a tiny miss match in wheel motor torque will force the truck off the road. Funny thing is that wally world is building cabover gliders with 60 foot trailers and the magic concept trailer is 53 ft long. 
The only numbers that I heard was the 4000 pound trailer weight. No fuel numbers, no horse power hours per gallon. Just fluff.
And the guage lay out is ridiculous, the main gauges NEED to be in the direct line of sight, not off in the corner of the cab


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

So basically it is a diesel powered jet (turbine) engine generating electricity to run electric magnetic motors like the bullet trains? Thanks.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I don't know that they are using wheel motors for sure, but otherwise it is just a spin on a conventional driveline, mostly I think it is a "look how green we are Spin".


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

RevWC said:


> So basically it is a diesel powered jet (turbine) engine generating electricity to run electric magnetic motors like the bullet trains? Thanks.


Some links for further details that are published about this rig ...

http://www.capstoneturbine.com/

http://www.businessinsider.com/walmarts-truck-of-the-future-2014-3

http://www.wired.com/2014/03/walmart-big-rig/

http://machinedesign.com/news/walmart-tests-truck-future


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

> The truck uses a turbine-powered battery-electric hybrid drivetrain, and the combustion engine can run on diesel, natural gas and biodiesel.
> 
> Curiously, there's no mention of estimated fuel economy. But even the aerodynamic gains alone could save Walmart a massive amount of money. The company has a fleet of over 6,000 trucks, so every mile per gallon saved is monumental.
> 
> ...


I think the Obama administration should give Walmart 11 billion to develop this, since it may never make it to road..

Cool idea none the less..


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Oh I can see so many things wrong with this truck...

Repair on the carbon fiber trailer, How are you going to fix it when a fork goes through the side?

What about being the first person to hit an elk or swamp donkey? Hey at least you will not have to pick it up because it will be in the cab with you.

Too much reliance on electronics. What happens to electronic components? They FAIL! Did you take a good look at the side mirrors? They are actually cameras. What happens when one of those fail and you can not get out of the lane you are traveling in? Could be as simple as you hitting a flying turkey.

Then we get to the sliding door.... I want one that swings open because my shoulder will open a frozen door, not so much with a sliding door. Or I can roll the window down. Not so in this truck.

Lastly, I don't want the walmart logo on the top of my head when the sun tans around the shadow...LOL

I have seen this truck on the net about 5 times now and it is still the Fugliest truck I have ever seen.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

The good news is you only have to work 27 hours a week and you are driving a state of the art truck.. The bad news is you only make $11.00 and hour and do not have health insurance!


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

I'm all for it. If they can do anything to improve their systems, use less fuel, and be more efficient it's a good thing. 

As for the computer systems, all vehicles made now days have computers in them.



Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum. Please forgive typos. 

"I will fear no evil, for the valley is mine and so is the shadow."


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

ras1219como said:


> I'm all for it. If they can do anything to improve their systems, use less fuel, and be more efficient it's a good thing.
> 
> As for the computer systems, all vehicles made now days have computers in them.
> 
> ...


Yes sir they do and that technology keeps the old mechanical trucks busy rescuing them

As to improvements in economy I really need to see those numbers, I have been on hauls with econo trucks and many of them burn more fuel and have longer cycle times than my old longnose conventional


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Easy there Mike, we can have useful modification s to semi trucks or have any kind of practical "green technology. :scratch


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

The problem with CNG is that more fuel is burned than a traditional diesel. In other words, there is less power output from CNG than diesel.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Thanks for the extra links, Naekid.

From what I gleaned from the articles, these trucks are optimized for use between metropolitan distribution centers and the actual retail stores. Thus a large percentage of their trips will be less than 100 miles and in urban traffic conditions. Adapting railroad technology and regenerative braking makes a lot of sense from a fuel use standpoint since starting and stopping the big rigs uses a lot of fuel. However a company could also achieve quite a bit of fuel savings simply by scheduling their store deliveries at off-peak traffic times (like in the middle of the night.)

I do wonder about the durability of the carbon fiber trailers since I am taking the information to mean that the trailer beams are also carbon fiber instead of aluminum. I am also wondering if the trailer has electric drive wheels. I can see eliminating the wood flooring in the trailer with fiberglass and saving a bit of weight there, but I wonder how well protected the floor will be from road debris.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

So the further we get into this WAVE, we find out it still has, according to the cut away illustrations, a conventional plain changing drivetrain, not real efficient. a transverse drive motor should be more along the lines of progress, 
All those aero features on a local delivery truck ..... 
This may pave the way to decent tractive turbine power usage which would be good, a turbine can be an efficient multi fuel engine and the electric conversion has the potential to make use of peak efficiency points.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> ..... turbine power usage which would be good, a turbine can be an efficient multi fuel engine ...to make use of peak efficiency points.


I don't see how a turbine would be more efficient than a diesel piston engine.

I did a little research of some engineering papers I found online, and nothing can support theories that a small turbine power plant would be more efficient than a piston diesel engine power plant (at constant RPM).

When you narrow the rpm range of a diesel (say, to 1800 RPM constant, like a common 60Hz generator) you can REALLY tweak it a lot and get very impressive efficiency numbers from it.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

LincTex said:


> I don't see how a turbine would be more efficient than a diesel piston engine.
> 
> I did a little research of some engineering papers I found online, and nothing can support theories that a small turbine power plant would be more efficient than a piston diesel engine power plant (at constant RPM).
> 
> When you narrow the rpm range of a diesel (say, to 1800 RPM constant, like a common 60Hz generator) you can REALLY tweak it a lot and get very impressive efficiency numbers from it.


The turbine probably wouldn't approach the efficiency of a diesel piston engine on diesel fuel, but the advantage of the turbine is found in the ability to burn different fuels, like CNG, LNG, LPG, even an mix of gasoline and used oil or what have you, without needing different compression ratios etc, but a lot of efficiency might be lost gearing the turbines speed to a useable generating speed.

the turbine thing is probably hype to get the media and audience excited by the smoke and mirrors, because truck efficiency is pretty high already


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> the ability to burn different fuels,
> like CNG, LNG, LPG,


No. The amount of gaseous fuel flow to keep the fire burning will boggle your mind. The fuel control unit on natural gas fired industrial turbines is nearly as big as the turbine itself!

The oilfield will give you all the answers you need on this. CNG can be injected into diesels, and its becoming more common. The problem is still tank size. A 500HP "diesel style" (converted Cummins or Waukesha) piston engine running at rated load on CNG will use about 8,000 cubic feet of CNG per hour. 
A 500 HP turbine running at the same load on CNG will run about 15-20 minutes on that amount of fuel. You can't haul enough fuel around to make it practical.



Tirediron said:


> even an mix of gasoline and used oil or what have you, .


Actually no, the carbon deposits left behind on the blades destroys their aerodynamicity. 
Very, VERY little deposits are allowed on the blades (I mean microscopic) before you drop below 95% efficient (of *rated* power, not thermodynamic or stoichiometric) before a "hot-section" rebuild will be required.



Tirediron said:


> the turbine thing is probably hype to get the media and audience excited by the smoke and mirrors


Anything to sound "High Tech"!!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Well there you go sounds like turbines are hype, because the video mentions natural gas type fuel, Typical spin doctoring just like the aero crap, the flat back of the trailer creates a pile of drag last I heard


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