# EMP Items???



## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

Today I was thinking about items that would be affected by an EMP. I did a little bit of reading. Only thing I can come across is some older electronic devices wouldn't be affected. I found that DVDs wont be affected, but DVD players wouldn't work. 

So I was wondering what regular comfort household items would be affected. Radios (battery and electric), Ipods, Iphones, desktop computer, laptop, game stations, televisions (flower box and digital).

Is there a website that someone could point me to, or some first hand experience on this? The sites I have read are outdated.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

EMP and solar flares are the big lurking possibilities. The last large solar flare we had was in the 1800's and it was strong enough to melt the telegraph wires. Now, the telegraph was really simple. For it to damage the telegraph system like it did, we are going to be in big trouble because NASA said the next one will be worse than that one. Electricity will be gone for a while. There are so many small electronics involved in the transfer of our modern electricity. Almost every vehicle made after 1987 will be fried. I advise everyone to have an older type vehicle for a BOV because of this. Satellites will be fried, so there goes gps and cell phones and whatever else they control. There is a reason NASA has shut down, they know what is coming. Sources tell me that a large flare will shut things down so bad that it will be three years before everything gets back up and running, and that is a government estimate, and we all know how their estimating is. I hope people can imagine how society will come apart. Electronic banking, welfare checks, food stamps, social security, all depend heavily on electronics nowadays. Remember Katrina? Most of those people didn't evacuate because checks came on Monday. 

So, if you have electronic things that you want to salvage, you should make a faraday box. This can be any metal box, a large tool box from the back of a pickup is an affordable unit. The electronics cannot touch the sides or the bottom of the box. This means you should insulate your things from touching the box. I would say, you could line the box with rubber, like some of that rubber matting found at feed stores, or maybe plywood, just something that does not conduct electricity and will prevent metal to metal contact. A lot of electronics are already designed this way, as far as government and critical controls. But, not all are. My brother works for the phone company, and I see what high voltage on small wires turns out like. If there are still some things you don't understand, ask me questions.


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## goodmedivice (May 7, 2010)

EMP was said to not affect anything that ran on vacuum tubes. Russian MIgs up untill lately were full of tubes for this reason. There are many high end Audio equipment that are still made this way as audiophiles swear to it efficiencies and clarity. I assume this is what your asking since you mentioned a few I gadgets .Solid state will be affected so forget about videos. although you can land a prehistoric TV with tubes, todays digital broadcasting will make it useless...I doubt there will anybroadcastin anyway. I think Only old Hams will communicate. 

BTW EMP is only intermittant, if your unit is off during a strike it will be safe.


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## dahur (Dec 18, 2009)

I have an all metal quonset hut/ garage workshop that is bolted to a cement slab-one giant ground. Do you think this would offer protection if I made for sure everything inside was sitting on rubber mats, or plywood?


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## FleshReaperX (Sep 5, 2011)

This is a great topic!I am not old enough to legally drive yet but I cannot wait to buy an old bronco or something to be able to get around when some pesky adversary sets off an emp:2thumb:


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

FleshReaperX, sounds like you've got your head screwed on pretty good for a young 'un!

I, too, wondered about metal buildings or, in our case, metal roofing on our home. Will it be enough protection? We keep a spare laptop computer (I know...no internet after an EMP! :gaah: ) in a gun safe, hoping that'll protect it. 

I've heard that it can depend on how strong the EMP is, and how far you are from the source. If a solar flare caused one, would the damage be localized to the part of the Earth that was facing the sun when it hit? 

There's also predictions that it could be bad enough to stop wristwatches. No one seems to know for sure, and there seems to be a lot of variables.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

The gun safe will work. Good way to protect all your electric guns. Really though, the military seems to operate on AA batteries these days. 

Dahur, your quanset hut should be fine. You don't have a metal slab anyway, so all should be good. I don't know what good electronics will be even if you have some that operate, unless using a generator. I am going to just focus mainly on lights. I had a discussion about this, and I kept prying these old guys and gave a solution for every problem they came up with. And, the number one item that we agreed that we would miss the most would be the flashlight. Being able to see what is out there is a sense of comfort that will be missed greatly. In the 1800's, they had lights, but nothing that would throw a beam. Read up on how to restore car batteries with pickling supplies. You can always drag a cord around with you.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

goodmedivice said:


> *BTW EMP is only intermittant, if your unit is off during a strike it will be safe*.


**********************

Not so sure about that. The cable feeding TVs or stereos, or the phone line to your computer would serve as a conduit for an electical surge resulting from an EMP. Furthermore, EMPs consist of airborn electrical energy which does not require a hardwire connection to fry delicate electronic components. That has been well demonstrated by the military in tests in the Pacific years ago.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

A few weeks ago, CSPAN actually aired a segment about the effects which an EMP would have on our country, hosted by a congressman from my state. It's pretty long, at an hour and a half, but it has a lot of good info:

National EMP Recognition Day: The Threat That Can't Be Ignored

One of the things that I really took away from it is the fact that the government has done studies which show that if an EMP weapon were to be deployed againts us, it would take around three years to restore the energy grid. Makes those three day BoBs and one year of supplies look a little inadequate, eh?


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

I have an EMP prepartedness plan that involves placing radios (handcrank or battery driven), Solar AA and AAA battery chargers, batteries, CREE flashlights in plastic then sealed in metal ammo cans and then placed in my metal storage shed.

Also in there is a Kindle that holds all my softcopy manuals and how to do it books.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

FleshReaperX said:


> This is a great topic!I am not old enough to legally drive yet but I cannot wait to buy an old bronco or something to be able to get around when some pesky adversary sets off an emp:2thumb:


An old Bronco is a wise choice. Those are 4x4, narrow, short, manuverable, just good all around vehicles.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

ashley8072 said:


> Today I was thinking about items that would be affected by an EMP. I did a little bit of reading. Only thing I can come across is some older electronic devices wouldn't be affected. I found that DVDs wont be affected, but DVD players wouldn't work.
> 
> So I was wondering what regular comfort household items would be affected. Radios (battery and electric), Ipods, Iphones, desktop computer, laptop, game stations, televisions (flower box and digital).
> 
> Is there a website that someone could point me to, or some first hand experience on this? The sites I have read are outdated.


Tube type radios and televisions[they are still out there but you will PAY!]

Non computer microwave ovens[the ones with no clock and an egg timer knob.]

Cassette decks.99% of them have no chip.

Old school alarm clocks.

Too much to list..if it HAS a memory chip,after the pulse,its scrap.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

ComputerGuy said:


> I have an EMP prepartedness plan that involves placing radios (handcrank or battery driven), Solar AA and AAA battery chargers, batteries, CREE flashlights in plastic then sealed in metal ammo cans and then placed in my metal storage shed.
> 
> Also in there is a Kindle that holds all my softcopy manuals and how to do it books.


So did you purchase a Kindle just for that reason, to have extra? I don't know what I would put in one as I use my things daily. :dunno:

Thank you everyone for so much information on this. I didn't even know what a Solar Flare was. I've got a toolbox in the laundry room, and I have insulated it a bit more and now my powertools are safe. I've found some pics of generator housings made with wire mesh and am looking further into that. My next thing is to get a military foot locker that I seen at the surplus store the other day, and use it for my electronics that we don't use or play anymore. I know that it wouldn't matter cuz we may be out of power...but I paid bucks for that stuff!!! :congrat: Hubby has a HUGE metal toolbox in the barn, and I'm putting a barrier in it today when he gets home. The chainsaws and other larger powertools are in it.

For months Hubby has been asking me what I thought about our prepping (obviously not helping much. lol). I told him that we are set besides a few things, that we could live without if wanted, the only thing that stops me is an EMP. That fear has been bothering me for the past couple months. I had no idea that it was so easy to protect from. After showing him the replies on this, he said that he's not going to sell the 1982 pick-up. lol!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Having a tin garden shed in the back yard with no power wires going to it should keep anything electronic inside safe as long as you have the tin doors shut and nothing touching the outside walls. For added protection, place tall filing-cabinets inside the tin-shed and put your electronics inside anti-static bags inside soft carry-cases (laptop-case) into the drawers of the filing cabinet. You can purchase anti-static bags (in bulk) from companies like ULine.ca / ULine.com (Canada / USA).

For dahur - I see a power-cable going to the quanset on the right-side of the main-door. That power-cable can route the EMP blast into the quanset killing off any electronics inside that are not re-protected with at least a basic faraday cage.

For all of us: We will need to leave all our precious electronics stored at all times inside the faraday cage as you will never know if/when the EMP burst will happen. Anything worth having, it is worth having two of - one to use and one to protect ...


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## goodmedivice (May 7, 2010)

If your unit is laying out on a concrete slab unplugged or plugged in with a physical rocker (airgap) switch in the off position it is Impossible for anything bad to happen to it. exceptions are MOSFET {field effect trnsistors found on 50w and above audio amps } amplifiers or EPROMS erasable programable chips which are hardly found anymore. 
Test- Take out your Ipod or radio without battery.next put ipod flat against you CRT monitor(non flat screen). Select Degause on your monitors menu, now get ready for this cool part- press enter - Poof, Got you scared Huh ! now turn it on! works doesnt it. ergo a simulation 10x worst than any solar flares to date.

Very complete coverage of EMPS , look at heading Effects of an EMP last sentence about equipment being off.
http://unitedstatesaction.com/emp-terror.htm

CRS Report to congress page 13 on devices being off
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32544.pdf


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Computer Guy?.....if all that you have is a "plan" and haven't done it yet then you have nothing........I am pretty sure that who ever uses the EMP bomb on the US won't be sending us an email saying........To all American, tomorrow at 1500 hours will be using a EMP bomb over your country.......

I for one have two old radios, one was build on the day, month and year that I was born in (1940, have the original certificate that came with the radio) and the other one in 1941.

As far as I am concern a EMP over the US would be the best thing that could happen........only then would there be more family unity and the kids would really learn the old fashion way with paper and pencil.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Modern electronic warfare includes EMP and HPM weapons. Microwaves will still kill anything within range inside the Quonset style huts. It is also said ammo boxes need to have the lid opening sealed with mesh between lid/opening.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Ponce said:


> Computer Guy?.....if all that you have is a "plan" and haven't done it yet then you have nothing........I am pretty sure that who ever uses the EMP bomb on the US won't be sending us an email saying........To all American, tomorrow at 1500 hours will be using a EMP bomb over your country.......


Sorry if I didn't come across correctly. I have an action too!! :2thumb:

Everything that is electronic is wrapped in plastic, then anti-static bags. After wrapping they are placed in metal ammunition boxes and stored in my metal shed.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I simply do as much as I can to avoid dependence upon electronics. I don't like computers... never have, never will. All of my preparations are made with the assumption that I will not have electricity.

I know that the reality would not be as pleasant as it sounds at first blush, but I am sort on-board with Ponce on this one: let's scrap all of the electronics.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Turtle said:


> I simply do as much as I can to avoid dependence upon electronics. I don't like computers... never have, never will. All of my preparations are made with the assumption that I will not have electricity.
> 
> I know that the reality would not be as pleasant as it sounds at first blush, but I am sort on-board with Ponce on this one: let's scrap all of the electronics.


I'm am sure you have your reasons, but I want to be able to have radio communications with others, be able to hear if there is any violence, or be able to know what is going on besides looking at smoke signals


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

No electricity would decimate this country. Think of any important facet of our lives and then imagine it without electricity. Personally, I want the lights on and equipment running if I'm having surgery.

Too bad y'all live so far away. I have an EMP proof area with plenty of space to hold stuff. I keep a computer, generators, other small engines, a couple tractors... in there.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

I love the feedback that I've gotten from this topic. I've changed my mind in trying to sell or throw out our old laptop. It's just outdated and the battery or cord has been having issues. It still works, but def has attitude to use it. lol! Think I'll just have it repaired and put it in a faraday box since we keep and use our current netbooks with us at work. Thank you everyone for the great input this.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

'Twas the night before 9/11, and all through our house,
No electronics were out, not even a 'mouse'.
The computers were tucked in the gun safe with care,
in hopes no EMP could get to them in there.
The outlets were empty, the plugs all pulled,
Jugs, tubs, bottles with water all filled.
If those nasty terrorists had on their mind
an attack of any terrible kind,
We'd listened and learned and done what we could,
Stocked up the pantry with all kinds of food.
Now it's off with me, off to my bed,
where visions of TEOTWAWKI fill my head.
To all of my friends here on the forum,
heed the advice here and don't ignore them,
Be ready, be safe, hold your loved ones tight,
blessings to all, and now... good night!


By the way, I read somewhere that you can unplug your microwave and use it as a farraday box/cage. If you have a small enough laptop computer or other small electronics you can put those in the microwave and it could protect them. Of you can remove the hard drive from a desk top computer and put it in there. If you have reason to worry about an EMP at a somewhat specific time, like the 10th anniversary of 9/11. Or other possible times.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> 'Twas the night before 9/11, and all through our house,
> No electronics were out, not even a 'mouse'.
> The computers were tucked in the gun safe with care,
> in hopes no EMP could get through in there.
> ...


Love that poem!!

Also, I would love if someone actually tested the faraday microwave. It would be most useful!


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Computer guy, how do you expect a Kindle to survive an EMP? My preparations are all non-electric. Hand tools, including a manual can opener which many preppers seem to forget. In my opinion, many of the people on this forum are way too dependent on electricity and technology. A true TEOTWAWKI event is going to take down the power grid.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

kejmack said:


> Computer guy, how do you expect a Kindle to survive an EMP? My preparations are all non-electric. Hand tools, including a manual can opener which many preppers seem to forget. In my opinion, many of the people on this forum are way too dependent on electricity and technology. A true TEOTWAWKI event is going to take down the power grid.


I agree. It's not that I look forward to electricity going away (I mean, I enjoy my xbox from time to time), but I think that losing the grid is a very real possibility and we should be prepared to handle that eventuality. To me, this is simply a matter of reducing dependence on uncontrollable outside resources.

I will use electricity just as long as I can, but I am preparing to get by without it.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Salekdarling said:


> Love that poem!!
> 
> Also, I would love if someone actually tested the faraday microwave. It would be most useful!


The microwave oven is designed to keep the radiation inside the unit - by opening up the microwave and pulling out the electronics that run it (including the power cord) you are left with a functional faraday cage that can / will keep electronics protected.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

kejmack said:


> Computer guy, how do you expect a Kindle to survive an EMP? My preparations are all non-electric. Hand tools, including a manual can opener which many preppers seem to forget. In my opinion, many of the people on this forum are way too dependent on electricity and technology. A true TEOTWAWKI event is going to take down the power grid.


The Kindle is packed into anti static bags. In a ammo can with plastic. I have a rechargeable solar system, for the system put away too.

I have the feeling that some hope for candles and what ever."

I am not very good at putting keyboard to type. How about this.... I have it handled. ' Nuff said


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

*Possible trade item(s)...*



NaeKid said:


> For all of us: We will need to leave all our precious electronics stored at all times inside the faraday cage as you will never know if/when the EMP burst will happen. Anything worth having, it is worth having two of - one to use and one to protect ...


My brother, the yard sale fanatic, has picked up outdated, but usable laptop computers for as little as $5. :2thumb: Seems to me :scratch that if a person could accumulate some of these units they could be reformatted and loaded with some basic programming software such as Portable Apps, CD/DVD reader and burner applications, office software (BTW- all of these can be found as FREE downloads on the WWW). Obviously, these would not be cutting edge technology units,  (OTOH, if they were usable after an EMP/solar flare event, they would be cutting edge as the newer, unprotected stuff would be toast!) :gaah:

An older laptop, loaded with basic programming and a decent size hard drive (say 20 Gig), with appropriate power adaptors that would allow a recharge off of various power sources (car battery, generator, solar panel, working ac power) would be a valuable commodity for trade. Obviously, this is not for the kids to use playing video games, or for adults viewing porn, but for serious work involving compilation of inventories, reviewing survival data on CDs, etc.

Older printers, ink jet refill kits and paper could be stored up to go with these laptops.

Once refurbished, these units can be stored in an EMP proof environment until needed.


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## Domeguy (Sep 9, 2011)

Over the years i have bought Zero Halliburton aluminum luggage/briefcases for travel protection. Turns out they are mini aluminum farraday cages. They are way expensive new but used are very resonable used. Line them with something non-conductive, load up with spare electronics, and put them away. Easy to bug out with too!


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

efbjr said:


> My brother, the yard sale fanatic, has picked up outdated, but usable laptop computers for as little as $5. :2thumb: Seems to me :scratch that if a person could accumulate some of these units they could be reformatted and loaded with some basic programming software such as Portable Apps, CD/DVD reader and burner applications, office software (BTW- all of these can be found as FREE downloads on the WWW). Obviously, these would not be cutting edge technology units,  (OTOH, if they were usable after an EMP/solar flare event, they would be cutting edge as the newer, unprotected stuff would be toast!) :gaah:
> 
> An older laptop, loaded with basic programming and a decent size hard drive (say 20 Gig), with appropriate power adaptors that would allow a recharge off of various power sources (car battery, generator, solar panel, working ac power) would be a valuable commodity for trade. Obviously, this is not for the kids to use playing video games, or for adults viewing porn, but for serious work involving compilation of inventories, reviewing survival data on CDs, etc.
> 
> ...


*Barf*
Id rather burn up in an EMP attack than have to use an old Windows 95 machine. You are all begging for torture. You just dont remember using those old things do ya? LOL.

Personally, being an IT Systems Administrator I look forward to the days of horse, buggy and abacus!:dunno:


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Although myself and severl thousand of you will be doing all we can to protect our radios, phones , tv's, computers from the effects of emp, IF it hits and knocks out the entire grid, there won't be a whole lot of tv or radio stations working. That will include satalites used for the internet and cell phones, and gps to continue working. I will do all I can to protect my solar system, but most likely will lose my wind generator. Hopefully my main generator will survive being a very early 70's kohler twin 7kw. My newer ones will most likely fail especially if running when it occurs. 

I do have a spare computer , sensors, injectors etc for both my truck and car, so that should help somewhat. The rest of the stuff, oh well. If your going to concentrate on emp protection, pay close attention to what really matters. 

Procur a few solar panels if able, batteries, invertor, charge controller and maybe , just maybe you can keep your fridge and freezer along with a few lights working afterwords.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Yeah, there'll be no internet after an EMP. I mostly hope to keep my computer protected because of all the things I have saved to it and been to lazy to back on on CDs. Things like pictures, and files of "how to" things that I know better to leave on the computer and not print up. I have books to cover most things, but I'd miss the stuff on my computer. Besides... never play bejeweled again? ...


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> Yeah, there'll be no internet after an EMP. I mostly hope to keep my computer protected because of all the things I have saved to it and been to lazy to back on on CDs. Things like pictures, and files of "how to" things that I know better to leave on the computer and not print up. I have books to cover most things, but I'd miss the stuff on my computer. Besides... never play bejeweled again? ...


LOL, I like Zuma better !


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

It is nice to have a little bit of technical advantage against the non-buggy, non horse riding zombies. My night vision goggles are secured!


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

I hear old transister radios will still work,but don't know if its true.
if it happens maybe bury your solar panels until its over.
Those with pacemakers need to make plans to protect them.Maybe cover yourself with metal underground?:dunno:


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Meerkat said:


> if it happens maybe bury your solar panels until its over.


Dearie, just burying them with dirt might not protect them. From what I've been told, you need a metal shield. I don't understand the "why" of how this all works. Wouldn't hurt to put panels in protective place, but putting a spare inverter in a protected place is a really good idea. I've heard differing opinions on protecting panels and batteries. :dunno:


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Meerkat said:


> I hear old transister radios will still work,but don't know if its true.
> if it happens maybe bury your solar panels until its over.
> Those with pacemakers need to make plans to protect them.Maybe cover yourself with metal underground?:dunno:


Transistor radios may work, but will there be anyone broadcasting? I would guess that most broadcast stations are operated electronically these days. Hopefully there would be some hobby guys capable of broadcasting.

Just another reason why I think it's a good idea to get used to the idea of not using anything which requires electricity.


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

My understanding from a couple of those super guys in electrical, is that the only thing that would be damaged in solar panels would be the diodes. That is why I have pleanty of them put away in case of flares or emp etc. I also have a spare inverter, and charge controlers put away just in case.


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

TheAnt said:


> *Barf*
> Id rather burn up in an EMP attack than have to use an old Windows 95 machine. You are all begging for torture. You just dont remember using those old things do ya? LOL.
> 
> Personally, being an IT Systems Administrator I look forward to the days of horse, buggy and abacus!:dunno:


I was thinking along the lines of a Linux based OS. Something like Portable Apps (designed to run on a data stick) that would not suck up all available resources like the Windows-based OS seems to do.  The OS I liked the best was Win98. Once I got it running the way I liked, I never let it update. Why screw up a perfectly good OS with so-called improvements".

Although slower, even a Win95 system with the right software would still be usable for a lot of useful post-apocalyptic projects.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

efbjr said:


> I was thinking along the lines of a Linux based OS. Something like Portable Apps (designed to run on a data stick) that would not suck up all available resources like the Windows-based OS seems to do.  The OS I liked the best was Win98. Once I got it running the way I liked, I never let it update. Why screw up a perfectly good OS with so-called improvements".
> 
> Although slower, even a Win95 system with the right software would still be usable for a lot of useful post-apocalyptic projects.


All very true... I was just airing my disdain for old MS OS's. Although you could get Win98 to work relatively well it is no comparison to stability on Linux. Now with Windows 7 you can actually have a PC on for a day without having to reboot!


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## mangome (Jul 31, 2010)

Great site for EMP sheilded alum boxes.. .040 thickness of aluminum is best. 
unclemiltsarmysurplus.com Product 2


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## NotAGrasshopper (Oct 25, 2010)

Ah, so much hype.

A nuclear EMP has a maximum-ish strength of 50kV/m^2 because of ionization of the atmosphere that makes it conductive, effectively "shorting out" any further strength increase. The EMP commission tested vehicles at field strengths up to 50kv/m^2 and *not a single vehicle* was rendered undrivable. The microelectronics in cars are very similar to those found in consumer electronic devices and I'd expect the latter to behave similarly to those in cars.

A solar EMP won't hurt your small electronics provided they are unplugged (i.e., have no long wires that could act like antennae). Solar EMP doesn't produce E1 or E2 (short wavelength) components - just E3, which requires a long conductor to couple to. Definitely a danger for power/phone lines, but nothing to worry about with small electronics, cars, etc.

The bottom line is that EMP (nuclear or solar) *IS* a concern with respect to power generation & transmission equipment and could bring our country to its knees. But our cars and Kindles will be just fine.


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

So, do I understand this: An EMP would affect digital and eletrical things.

But, batteries would be okay. What else would be okay. I have a 1973 VW that I know for sure would be okay; except when the battery is dead; there'd be no other car to charge it back up......

What about car batteries alone. I saw there was a small refrigerator in Lehman's Catalog that can be powered by a 12V battery.... what do ya think?

Would the refrigerator get fried? The electical wiring is on the inside the metal casing....

I'm really curious....


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## goodmedivice (May 7, 2010)

NotAGrasshopper said:


> Ah, so much hype.
> 
> A nuclear EMP has a maximum-ish strength of 50kV/m^2 because of ionization of the atmosphere that makes it conductive, effectively "shorting out" any further strength increase. The EMP commission tested vehicles at field strengths up to 50kv/m^2 and *not a single vehicle* was rendered undrivable. The microelectronics in cars are very similar to those found in consumer electronic devices and I'd expect the latter to behave similarly to those in cars.
> 
> ...


I totally agree with you- put a semiconductor on a cement slab, like a diode becuse someone mentioned would be succeptible , rated at an 1/8 of a watt for that matter.Now how the hell does electricity flow thru this 
component it is not a circuit as its leads are not connected- no potential no ground. no conduction means no current thus no power - not even an eight of a watt. 
Lets take a coil ,an inductor , the one component that is very reactive to emps. the coil is open ended , if it recieves a strike does it produce voltage , NO! because its opened ended- no circuit ,no infinite resistance equals no current therefore no Voltage. 
If you put a meter across a coil to prove this post wrong and induce a magnetic field ,Yes,you will see voltage only because of the meters internal resistance that completes the circuit.
take your batteries out of your devices and put it somewhere where you wont trip over it.
Save your money and buy some can foods and ammo instead of sheilding.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

Couple of thoughts:

1) A Faraday cage got to be radiation tight. I apologize if this terminology is not good and proper for the experts out there. This means that a box with one wall missing, like a metallic building on a concrete slab, is not a Faraday cage and would not work. Me thinks you would need to have a metallic floor closing the cage from all sides. The concrete slab would act like a window for just the kind of radiation you are trying to keep out.

2) I'm keeping radios and flashlights wrapped in poly bags and aluminum sheets, three times, that is: <the item><poly wrap><al wrap><poly wrap><al wrap><poly wrap><al wrap><poly wrap>. Why three times? In case some of the al wrap brakes from handling. I expect to always have one surviving layer to do the trick.

And a question:

Are modern cells like Eneloops, 123s and 18650s, susceptible to damage by EMP? Should we keep our batteries supply in a Faraday cage, too?


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## goodmedivice (May 7, 2010)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> Couple of thoughts:
> 
> 1) A Faraday cage got to be radiation tight. I apologize if this terminology is not good and proper for the experts out there. This means that a box with one wall missing, like a metallic building on a concrete slab, is not a Faraday cage and would not work. Me thinks you would need to have a metallic floor closing the cage from all sides. The concrete slab would act like a window for just the kind of radiation you are trying to keep out.
> 
> ...


 There are no scientific proof anywhere that equipment unplugged can be ruined by an emp. All research done on electrical equipment in regards to emp are on live (powered) equipment. that being said, if you sleep better knowing your batteries are shielded and in the dark somewhere please make sure you have a working flashlight with you when you feel its time to recover the wrapped batteries.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

goodmedivice said:


> There are no scientific proof anywhere that equipment unplugged can be ruined by an emp. All research done on electrical equipment in regards to emp are on live (powered) equipment. that being said, if you sleep better knowing your batteries are shielded and in the dark somewhere please make sure you have a working flashlight with you when you feel its time to recover the wrapped batteries.


I seem to recall having read that modern kit will get an induced murderous current from an EMP just by being there. This killer seems to be more insidious than many others. Reminds me of a heavier than air nervous agent, you are either properly isolated from it or you are gone.

Your point on finding your protected kit is a good one. But a modern light will die from the phenomenon. Better keep matches and a candle handy.

What a pity we can't test our counter EMP measures.


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## goodmedivice (May 7, 2010)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> I seem to recall having read that modern kit will get an induced murderous current from an EMP just by being there. This killer seems to be more insidious than many others. Reminds me of a heavier than air nervous agent, you are either properly isolated from it or you are gone.
> 
> Your point on finding your protected kit is a good one. But a modern light will die from the phenomenon. Better keep matches and a candle handy.
> 
> What a pity we can't test our counter EMP measures.


 Take an Ipod or an am/fm radio. Put it against a CRT monitor. go on the crt menu and select degaus- press enter and that would be a pretty good test.


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## Oldschool (Jul 4, 2011)

Greetings, 

It's been a while,

Has anyone heard of using their microwave oven as a Faraday cage as it already shields radiation from escaping? If so would this make a useable version?

Thanks!


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## stcycly66 (Mar 23, 2009)

I read years ago that an old microwave will work as a Faraday cage (since it is already one anyway..) and that you can just store whatever it is you want kept safe, in it.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

NotAGrasshopper said:


> Ah, so much hype.
> 
> A nuclear EMP has a maximum-ish strength of 50kV/m^2 because of ionization of the atmosphere that makes it conductive, effectively "shorting out" any further strength increase. The EMP commission tested vehicles at field strengths up to 50kv/m^2 and *not a single vehicle* was rendered undrivable. The microelectronics in cars are very similar to those found in consumer electronic devices and I'd expect the latter to behave similarly to those in cars.
> 
> ...


You seem pretty sure of this government testing, other independant test have shown vechicles to be inoperative after emps, since a lightning strick will fry a ECM , one should proceed with caution.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

stcycly66 said:


> I read years ago that an old microwave will work as a Faraday cage (since it is already one anyway..) and that you can just store whatever it is you want kept safe, in it.


As long as you remove the power cord. it should in theory work.


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## flayer (Jan 15, 2011)

*Relating to this...*



NotAGrasshopper said:


> Ah, so much hype.
> 
> The bottom line is that EMP (nuclear or solar) *IS* a concern with respect to power generation & transmission equipment and could bring our country to its knees. But our cars and Kindles will be just fine.


 I watched a program on TV a couple of months ago, Discovery or the Learning Channel or something...it was about the possible ramifications of the very powerful expected solar flares that are cyclical and due...it was pretty serious, not satyrical or mocking, not like the ghost hunters or UFO Ancient Aliens "entertainment" programs....anyway it said the same thing. Transformers would fry and the power grid would poof. The thing was, the companies that still make the things--and yes, there aren't as many as there once were...would take* years *to replace them all, not one or two but much longer. And, to make matters worse think of the engineering and planning to bring it up bit by bit again... with the government ineptitude, and not to mention the chaos that would result everywhere. Further slowing or preventing the process, without order it might not happen for a while....
A number of experts and such, sobering and they didn't even try to incite too much hysteria, but anyone thinking clearly can use a little imagination and that's enough. I just hope modern technology, and infrstructure, proves more resilient than we fear it to be.


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## NotAGrasshopper (Oct 25, 2010)

One of the non-natural EMP scenarios that has been discussed is the possibility of a rogue nation (Iran, North Korea, etc.) launching a nuke from the Gulf of Mexico to 200 miles above Nebraska. The Iranians reportedly launched a ballistic missile from the Caspian Sea, detonated it at apogee and declared the test a "success".

Today we see the startling news that Iran is getting ready to start placing ships just outside U.S. waters. IMO, this is the start of a multi-year plan to soften us up and get us used to Iranian ships "harmlessly" patrolling in the the Gulf of Mexico. Later, when they are ready, *boom* - lights out.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

flayer said:


> I watched a program on TV a couple of months ago, Discovery or the Learning Channel or something...it was about the possible ramifications of the very powerful expected solar flares that are cyclical and due...it was pretty serious, not satyrical or mocking, not like the ghost hunters or UFO Ancient Aliens "entertainment" programs....anyway it said the same thing. Transformers would fry and the power grid would poof. The thing was, the companies that still make the things--and yes, there aren't as many as there once were...would take* years *to replace them all, not one or two but much longer. And, to make matters worse think of the engineering and planning to bring it up bit by bit again... with the government ineptitude, and not to mention the chaos that would result everywhere. Further slowing or preventing the process, without order it might not happen for a while....
> A number of experts and such, sobering and they didn't even try to incite too much hysteria, but anyone thinking clearly can use a little imagination and that's enough. I just hope modern technology, and infrstructure, proves more resilient than we fear it to be.


The one CSPAN radio program to which I listened last month stated that the transformers and other sensitive parts of the electrical grid are made "to order", so there is no stockpile of spares in existence, meaning that they would have to figure out how to get the factories running before they could consider replacing parts. The congressman on that show said that the federal government's estimates say that it would take at least *six years* to bring the power grid back on line.

Sort of drills home the idea that three months, six months, a year, even five years of stores will not be enough! We had all better learn how to _make_ things, not just stockpile.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Now here is something interesting. A Alabama Power truck was in the neighborhood the other day, moving from transformer to transformer noting numbers and some other data!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Turtle said:


> The one CSPAN radio program to which I listened last month stated that the transformers and other sensitive parts of the electrical grid are made "to order", so there is no stockpile of spares in existence, meaning that they would have to figure out how to get the factories running before they could consider replacing parts. The congressman on that show said that the federal government's estimates say that it would take at least *six years* to bring the power grid back on line.
> Sort of drills home the idea that three months, six months, a year, even five years of stores will not be enough! We had all better learn how to _make_ things, not just stockpile.


Did they take into consideration that the whole North American economy would tank as a result, me thinks more like 60 years.:dunno:


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## flayer (Jan 15, 2011)

*Bingo*

Exactly, it's an amazing failure on the part of the Government to an issue that is clearly in their area of responsability.
A partial collapse can be corrected because the infrastructure is functioning to effect repairs, but if it all goes down? It'll be a complete restart with thousands of islands of humanity in a sea of chaos (potentially)... Priorities may be very difficult to order let alone implement plans when no-one has electrical power...
Think of international issues/complications, nations would likely move to seize such manufacturing assets , rationalizing they need it first or that it's theirs if it's in their nation...would anyone else agree? Would anyone else even know who could help? Would any nation still be able to communicate to facilitate such theoretical discussions? It's a far reaching thing...their go my willies again getting all uppity. :gaah:


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

If I recall correctly, they said on that show that the company that makes those giant transformers is in France, adding another factor to the resupply issue.

The whole thing is a mess. Basically, the moral of the story is this: if the grid fails, be ready for it to be down for a good chunk of the rest of your life. That means that stockpiling goods will not be sufficient; we must learn the skills needed to be self-sustaining.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Turtle said:


> If I recall correctly, they said on that show that the company that makes those giant transformers is in France, adding another factor to the resupply issue.
> 
> The whole thing is a mess. Basically, the moral of the story is this: if the grid fails, be ready for it to be down for a good chunk of the rest of your life. That means that stockpiling goods will not be sufficient; we must learn the skills needed to be self-sustaining.


An yet so many think that the stockpile is enough. what if you are away from your stock pile.


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## stcycly66 (Mar 23, 2009)

And yet, there is a weird part of me that wonders if the electricity going out - reprioritizes things...might actually do the world a favor...


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