# Best for barter?



## OdieB (Mar 18, 2012)

BESIDES AMMMO, What do you consider to be the best items to have on hand to barter? What quantities? What do you think will become necessary or a "hot item" first? Would love your suggestions. OdieB

wow ! ! ! I just found all the postings in similar barter links. Never mind here - unless somebody wants to reply. There are SO many ideas, I am overwhelmed. Thanks to everyone who has ever posted their barter ideas. -OdieB


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Matches, tp, gas, diesel fuel,oil


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Dw and I collect little things that will make life one moment easier. Toothbrushes, little soaps, little toothpastes, matches, some miniatures, little alcohol swabs, just stuff people throw away


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## beansbullets (Mar 1, 2012)

I think if you could figure a way to stock Copenhagen and keep it fresh you would eventually end up with everything I have. Matter of fact, you probably wouldn't need to prep at all just feed my nicotine habit and I'll feed you.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

beansbullets said:


> I think if you could figure a way to stock Copenhagen and keep it fresh you would eventually end up with everything I have. Matter of fact, you probably wouldn't need to prep at all just feed my nicotine habit and I'll feed you.


Sounds like having the recipt and ingredients to make copenhagen would be a good investment. I was thinking of growing tabbaco.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

I am going to put my vote in for seeds for barter items!


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

*Fire wood *( So many are going to "heat with wood" But, have no way of cutting it besides a chainsaw. Buy the tools of the 1900 trade and you can supply wood. Always cut a year in advance so what you have is dry. Have the best product) 
*Stove pipe* (it burns out)
*Alcohol* (at 190 proof. Everclear It is good for all grades of things. 190 Proof because you can store more in a smaller amount of space.)


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I have to say tho.. I would never trade ammo or even let others know you can spare it.. it may comeback to bite ya in the azz.. 
Me I am with Pam about the seeds.. I collect and propagate heirlooms and it could be my "cash".
Plus right now needles and fish hooks may become like cash in my area..


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## res2cue (Mar 14, 2012)

How about mason jar lids  cheap and easy to store


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

res2cue said:


> How about mason jar lids  cheap and easy to store


Oh yes! totally forgot about those.. you can buy them by the sleeve online.. depending on the size they hold quite a few lids per sleeve.
While I would never re-use a lid now if you were super careful taking them off you possibly could re-use them. I often use them if they have good edges and sealant for vac-packing in my mason jars.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

beansbullets said:


> I think if you could figure a way to stock Copenhagen and keep it fresh you would eventually end up with everything I have. Matter of fact, you probably wouldn't need to prep at all just feed my nicotine habit and I'll feed you.


Dude, You have to be in Texas, I decided that when TSHTF, I would just give it up instead of becoming a nicotine crazed zombie. I have done it before for several years at a time, not THAT difficult but it does make you a bit cranky for a few days.



Emerald said:


> Oh yes! totally forgot about those.. you can buy them by the sleeve online.. depending on the size they hold quite a few lids per sleeve.
> While I would never re-use a lid now if you were super careful taking them off you possibly could re-use them. I often use them if they have good edges and sealant for vac-packing in my mason jars.


After I get my water tanks and propane tank bought and set up, I am going to start buying the 96 dozen count sleeves(I think it was you who posted where to find them) and putting them in with my stores. I currently have about 80 dozen set back but about 4 sleeves(96 dozen) might just give me the warm fuzzies.

I could kick myself in the Butt for buying so many wide mouth quarts jars, I plan to stock up on both wide and small mouth lids but it would have been a lot cheaper to just use the small mouths.



md1911 said:


> Sounds like having the receipt and ingredients to make Copenhagen would be a good investment. I was thinking of growing tabbacco.


I'm sure that if we knew what went into making it, we would certainly not be "dipping" it.


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## beansbullets (Mar 1, 2012)

Davarm said:


> Dude, You have to be in Texas, I decided that when TSHTF, I would just give it up instead of becoming a nicotine crazed zombie. I have done it before for several years at a time, not THAT difficult but it does make you a bit cranky for a few days.
> 
> After I get my water tanks and propane tank bought and set up, I am going to start buying the 96 dozen count sleeves(I think it was you who posted where to find them) and putting them in with my stores. I currently have about 80 dozen set back but about 4 sleeves(96 dozen) might just give me the warm fuzzies.
> 
> ...


Well I have a little story for you about the importance of dipping. One time , while completing a military school, I missed a shot on my final . One of the instructors is puzzled by this and points out that i had dipped all the time but had chosen not to on this final. I retest with my nicotine and all ends well! Always keep a roll with.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

beansbullets said:


> Well I have a little story for you about the importance of dipping. One time , while completing a military school, I missed a shot on my final . One of the instructors is puzzled by this and points out that i had dipped all the time but had chosen not to on this final. I retest with my nicotine and all ends well! Always keep a roll with.


You ever been dipping and drinking beer at the same time and forget which is the spit bottle after the 3rd of 4th beer?

Most only make that mistake one time, you make it twice and you kinda deserve it.


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## beansbullets (Mar 1, 2012)

Davarm said:


> You ever been dipping and drinking beer at the same time and forget which is the spit bottle after the 3rd of 4th beer?
> 
> Most only make that mistake one time, you make it twice and you kinda deserve it.


Have had someone mistake my spit bottle for their beer


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

Davarm or Emerald, where can you buy sleeves of lids? I never even knew that option existed...


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

neldarez said:


> Davarm or Emerald, where can you buy sleeves of lids? I never even knew that option existed...


I was sure it was Lehmans and I was right..
http://www.lehmans.com/store/Kitche...ers___Bulk_Canning_Dome_Lids___bulklids?Args=
they are not ball lids but they work...


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

ComputerGuy said:


> Dw and I collect little things that will make life one moment easier. Toothbrushes, little soaps, little toothpastes, matches, some miniatures, little alcohol swabs, just stuff people throw away


I can't believe that you collect other people's trash lol. Seriously, while at a few third world countries, you wouldn't believe the bartering power my toiletries had. No, I didn't trade my old tooth brush. I mostly got souvenir stuff and thought I got the better of the deal 10 fold. At the same time, I think "they" thought they did. In Tomorrows world, will the prepared person be able to trade a dollar store pack of toilet paper (a luxiory item for the unprepared) for a "You fill in the blank" (a valuable enhancement for what the prepared already have)?


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

JoKing said:


> I can't believe that you collect other people's trash lol. Seriously, while at a few third world countries, you wouldn't believe the bartering power my toiletries had. No, I didn't trade my old tooth brush. I mostly got souvenir stuff and thought I got the better of the deal 10 fold. At the same time, I think "they" thought they did. In Tomorrows world, will the prepared person be able to trade a dollar store pack of toilet paper (a luxiory item for the unprepared) for a "You fill in the blank" (a valuable enhancement for what the prepared already have)?


One person's trash is another's treasure!


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

JoKing said:


> I can't believe that you collect other people's trash lol. Seriously, while at a few third world countries, you wouldn't believe the bartering power my toiletries had. No, I didn't trade my old tooth brush. I mostly got souvenir stuff and thought I got the better of the deal 10 fold. At the same time, I think "they" thought they did. In Tomorrows world, will the prepared person be able to trade a dollar store pack of toilet paper (a luxiory item for the unprepared) for a "You fill in the blank" (a valuable enhancement for what the prepared already have)?


I actually have been known to check Craigslist for people getting rid of unopened samples of various items. Not only could you trade them, but they are the perfect size for BOB's.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

How about information on survival stuff? I know someone who collects all kinds of fliers about this stuff, boyscout books, etc. He has way more than he'd ever need.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Anything like tobacco can be vacuum-sealed to greatly extend it's shelf life, for those of us who live far, far away from tobacco country. We vacuum-sealed each pack of cigarettes separately, then put them all in an airtight bucket. (The packs were all free. No one in our huge extended familiy smokes). When it comes time to barter them, it'll be one or two at a time, not a whole pack.

The books and information idea is good. Thrift stores and yard sales would be a great place to find books like that mentioned in the above post.

A lot of good ideas on this thread!


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

gypsysue said:


> Anything like tobacco can be vacuum-sealed to greatly extend it's shelf life, for those of us who live far, far away from tobacco country. We vacuum-sealed each pack of cigarettes separately, then put them all in an airtight bucket. (The packs were all free. No one in our huge extended familiy smokes). When it comes time to barter them, it'll be one or two at a time, not a whole pack.
> 
> The books and information idea is good. Thrift storegars and yard sales would be a great place to find books like that mentioned in the above post.
> 
> A lot of good ideas on this thread!


I smoke just wondering were you get free cigaretts. And that's a good idea of vacume sealing each pack seperatley.


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## Kellog (Mar 3, 2012)

A good basic fix-it or service skill is always good for barter, even in non-SHTF situations. Things like knife sharpening, basic barbering, fence repair, etc. that you can use to negotiate with: "I'll fix your fences if I can fish in your pond" kinda thing.

About seed saving...I was reading a prepper blog where the blogger recommended saving seeds from grocery produce and then mentioned in the next sentence about using seed for barter. Eep!  That's a very iffy source. So if you ever have to barter for seed, make sure you know the person who is offering the seed knows what they are doing and is providing good seed. 

And because it can't be said too often...test your seed and plant varieties for your climate and soil. Gardening is not hard. Well, okay it's hard work.. and there's a learning curve. If you are in a situation where you are depending on your garden to feed your family, it's not the time to learn that your storage packaged seed "variety X" doesn't do well in your climate.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

Kellog said:


> A good basic fix-it or service skill is always good for barter, even in non-SHTF situations. Things like knife sharpening, basic barbering, fence repair, etc. that you can use to negotiate with: "I'll fix your fences if I can fish in your pond" kinda thing.


That's one of the best ideas I've ever heard. Ones skills are easy to pack and don't take up much of BOB's space either. I will definitely go that route for rebuilding my chunk of society, whether I am in a leadership position or a contributing pre-citizen. I'm gonna throw that up on the drawing board. 
EXAMPLE: A doctor offers medical coverage(ha ha) in trade for expertise and labor concerning disease control and sanitation; a trash man gets health care and keeps the flies down in trade for a farmer keeping him fed; a farmer offers stock in his harvest in trade for...
That's a pretty crude example but I am definitely putting that in my "What If" planner.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

JoKing said:


> That's one of the best ideas I've ever heard. Ones skills are easy to pack and don't take up much of BOB's space either. I will definitely go that route for rebuilding my chunk of society, whether I am in a leadership position or a contributing pre-citizen. I'm gonna throw that up on the drawing board.
> EXAMPLE: A doctor offers medical coverage(ha ha) in trade for expertise and labor concerning disease control and sanitation; a trash man gets health care and keeps the flies down in trade for a farmer keeping him fed; a farmer offers stock in his harvest in trade for...
> That's a pretty crude example but I am definitely putting that in my "What If" planner.


Good luck getting everyone to donate to the doctor or the trash man. That only works in small groups and when your starting to rebuilding society. I would not plan that kind of logic being viable early or mid stage of a disaster, you know when you need to barter.


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## Kellog (Mar 3, 2012)

I just like to have a variety of options. Could you rely on barter alone? Probably not, however, if you use a bit of bartering now, you can get an idea of who are the reliable and fair minded folks in your neighborhood or group. This is what happens in our community. My neighbors and I know who we count on because, for example, say neighbor "A" is willing to help folks put out hay, or whatever, so the rest of the neighbors are willing to help neighbor "A" when he needs it. We know who shows up when something is needed, and we don't abuse that generosity. It's more about co-operation than contributions. It helps if you can pull your weight with a useful skill or equipment or goods. It's sort of a "no prepper is an island outlook". YMMV.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

In a survival situation you have to trust someone to barter. Just showing a resource might get you killed or taken prisoner.

How do you safely offer your skills to strangers in a hostile environment? 

And how are you sure your can get paid after you fix that leg wound? 

Barter is that lucky thing that happens sometimes. It's the lottery of survival. And it's a whole lot harder to sell skills and services than hard goods.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

bahramthered said:


> Good luck getting everyone to donate to the doctor or the trash man. That only works in small groups and when your starting to rebuilding society. I would not plan that kind of logic being viable early or mid stage of a disaster, you know when you need to barter.


I agree with that. My examples were crude. I'm not going to watch Little House On The Prairie just to get better examples for you lol. At some point, be it 1 or 10 years, you need to get the ball rolling somehow if /when the government doesn't recover.
It's going in my "what if" plan. Please don't try to pop my bubble again lol.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

beansbullets said:


> Have had someone mistake my spit bottle for their beer


Did they do it more than 1 time?:scratch The "FLOATIES" in the bottle are a dead give away.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

As far as bartering goes, you're going to have to be smart about it. In regards to what bahramthered said above, it's just like meeting a buyer/seller for a craigslist item in a public place for a transaction now vs. going to some creepy stranger's house all by yourself. Yes there will be some trust involved as well, but if this situation were to present itself post-SHTF, I'd tend to think that the bartering would be much more localized. While I may not know all the people living around me, others that I know do know them and I have a pretty good feel for who is a good person and who is not trustworthy. You can only transport a cord of wood so far without a motor vehicle.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

Ttrusting people may be one of the major obsticals that people have to overcome after tshtf. Trade and barter can be a very good way to foster trust. Start with small things that are not capable of being used against you. Make the trade in a open are. Have someone or multiple someone,s. With rifels covering the person doing the trade.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

md1911 said:


> Ttrusting people may be one of the major obsticals that people have to overcome after tshtf. Trade and barter can be a very good way to foster trust. Start with small things that are not capable of being used against you. Make the trade in a open are. Have someone or multiple someone,s. With rifels covering the person doing the trade.


How true. Once you stick your foot in your mouth, it's too late for taking your head out of your ass.

At some point in the trust process, I'd probably want to play "phony stash" game.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

What's "phony stash" game? Never heard of that one.


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

Thanks Emerald, that site wouldn't open for me but I wrote it down and will get to it! Didn't know where to post this, I'm going to be gone for a few days ( I hope that's all) and will be back absolutely as soon as able! I so look forward to reading on here every day...I'm having hand surgery in the morn ( not a good time huh, almost garden time) I have so much prayer heaped on me that I'll be well in plenty of time!! See you all later...:2thumb:


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

neldarez said:


> Didn't know where to post this, I'm going to be gone for a few days ( I hope that's all) and will be back absolutely as soon as able! I so look forward to reading on here every day...I'm having hand surgery in the morn ( not a good time huh, almost garden time) I have so much prayer heaped on me that I'll be well in plenty of time!! See you all later...:2thumb:


Hoping all goes well with the surgery and a speedy recovery! Keep us posted!:flower:


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

Jason said:


> What's "phony stash" game? Never heard of that one.


Sorry, I made it up. I think I shouldn't do that lol.
Bait and switch? Let it slip where your stash is (wink wink). Then see if he/she tries to find it.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Oh ok. That makes sense. Thank you!


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

neldarez said:


> Thanks Emerald, that site wouldn't open for me but I wrote it down and will get to it! Didn't know where to post this, I'm going to be gone for a few days ( I hope that's all) and will be back absolutely as soon as able! I so look forward to reading on here every day...I'm having hand surgery in the morn ( not a good time huh, almost garden time) I have so much prayer heaped on me that I'll be well in plenty of time!! See you all later...:2thumb:


I'll be thinking of you and sending healing thoughts your way! I will be having surgery on my knee april 5th so will be on here even more than normal in april!
anyone else having problems with the link just run on over to Lehmans catalog online and it will come right up on their search engine. plus tons of other goodies


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

*Copenhagen Recipe*



md1911 said:


> Sounds like having the recipt and ingredients to make copenhagen would be a good investment. I was thinking of growing tabbaco.


I know how to make Copenhagen. Just take one cup of worm dirt and pee in it.
Sorry, I couldn't help but go there. I used to dip Copenhagen on occasion(EVERYONE was doing it lol), and that's what I thought of before I acquired the taste. And before anyone asks me how I know what pee tastes like...It was an accident lol.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

I guess anything you can think of that you want or would like to have could be a good trade item. But from what I read on hear most people are to concerned with opsec to trade. I would think medical supplies could be a high value trade item. Maybe something as simple as t/p


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## IamMurphy (Mar 9, 2012)

I would definatle have to agree wih growing tabaco. Packs of cigs and cans of chew are to expensive and will eventually run out. But when they do the addicts will come-a-runnin. Haha no but really, america was built on tabaco. Jamestown almost failed and the settlers realized how precious tabaco was back in england. And while youre fueling one bad habit you mise well make some moonshine or whine. Because we also love to drink.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

IamMurphy said:


> I would definatle have to agree wih growing tabaco. Packs of cigs and cans of chew are to expensive and will eventually run out. But when they do the addicts will come-a-runnin. Haha no but really, america was built on tabaco. Jamestown almost failed and the settlers realized how precious tabaco was back in england. And while youre fueling one bad habit you mise well make some moonshine or whine. Because we also love to drink.


Agreed their people will pay for tabbaco and alcohol. I plan on growing and making both.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

How about pipes for all the tobacco being grown.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

Jason said:


> Oh ok. That makes sense. Thank you! *Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of gas, electricity, and oil, as well as current market conditions, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off.*


OMG..._"Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of gas, electricity, and oil, as well as current market conditions, the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off."_LMAO


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

JustCliff said:


> How about pipes for all the tobacco being grown.


Well, if someone were to learn how to whittle wood, then it wouldn't be a big deal. My husband and I collect interesting ones already and it wouldn't be a stretch to barter them if things got a little tight.


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## beansbullets (Mar 1, 2012)

Glad to see so many people jumping on board to feed my nicotine habit. I can start saving my empty dip cans and ship them off to y'all. What am I going to have to trade for a can of dip anyway? I could throw in a kid since I won't be able to use them as tax write offs anymore


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

beansbullets said:


> Glad to see so many people jumping on board to feed my nicotine habit. I can start saving my empty dip cans and ship them off to y'all. What am I going to have to trade for a can of dip anyway? I could throw in a kid since I won't be able to use them as tax write offs anymore


That's your labor force your trying to get rid of .lol


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## beansbullets (Mar 1, 2012)

md1911 said:


> That's your labor force your trying to get rid of .lol


It ain't much of a labor force, my son would die if exposed to the work I did at his age and I won't even go into the girls!


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

beansbullets said:


> It ain't much of a labor force, my son would die if exposed to the work I did at his age and I won't even go into the girls!


??? Let me guess x box.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Gold and Ammo:

A)

I am buying small denomination Gold coins soon and storing them in my Banks lockbox which is only a few hundred yards from my house.

B)

50 rd boxes of Pistol or revolver Ammo.

I know some PPL say : 
What if someone will attack you with them.. To that I say.. I am not giving away rifle ammo. and if somoen has only the pistol/revolver ammo i traded them trying to get the rest of it when I am armed with a rifle its a non starter for them.

"what if figures out you got the goods? and that makes you mroe of a target?" This applies ot any valuable good... if you keep stuff thats not valuable it would kinda defeat the purpose.

And in a situation like this PPL would not be picky about brandnames.
I bought me a dozen boxes of 50 rd ammo in 38 SPC. Anyone with a 38 SPC or .357 Magn refvolver can fire this.
in a pinch its enough for hunting.

In a situation like this a lot of folks will be able to trade useful items for a box of 38 spc.
(my .357 Ammo I would only trade for something real good as it can be used to take down medium game)

I just held on of my boxes and it was hefty shiny and w/ colorful brass.

yep in a real paradigm shift say 10 yrs after SHTF, PPL would trade a lot for that.. a box of Ammo might be worth the company of a young woman for a week


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> yep in a real paradigm shift say 10 yrs after SHTF, PPL would trade a lot for that.. maybe even trade an attractive woman for a couple dozen boxes....


I was totally with you up 'till the end. Really? What makes you think that in a decade women will become trade goods? And for as little as some bullets? People who are still around and still have working weapons will most likely be reloading.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I was trying to make my point in a brutal way.

As for reloading there are things you need for it that genereally civlization will supply:

brass ( ok that can be picked form battle sites) but also bullets or powder.

If you have a chemist in your tribe you cna probably get gun cotton or black powder made from scratch MAYBE w/o blowing everybody up. but otherwise...

just following the directions form the books will eventually get whoever does it blown up.
So..

if SHTF Ammo will be valuable and i will trade it.


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## ms_a2gwus (Feb 27, 2012)

res2cue said:


> How about mason jar lids  cheap and easy to store


If these are as good as they are advertised to be, it might be an idea to have these to keep and the other cheaper non-reuseables for barter:
http://www.reusablecanninglids.com/



Davarm said:


> Did they do it more than 1 time?:scratch The "FLOATIES" in the bottle are a dead give away.


That is just WAY too much information to know! :tmi: I think I'm gonna be ill now... :surrender:


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

md1911 said:


> ...from what I read on hear most people are to concerned with opsec to trade...


 "The hermits today will have neighbors Tomorrow".-_JK 3/28/2012_
In the military, safety is MY responsibility(slogan). The perception is that if you observe a safety hazard and don't take actions to correct it, shame on you. Prior to commencement, all operations are required to have an "Operational Risk Assessment" during the planning process. In a nut shell, ORM is a "tool for making smart decisions". You Identify all potential hazards related to the job, rate the hazard(how bad of an owwie could it cause and what are the chances of it happening), figure what you can do to minimize the hazard's probability and/or extent of damage(put guard on pulley, hang a warning sign, and educate personnel), rate the hazard again and determine if the benefit of the outcome outweighs the risk. In peace time, if the task could cause death or mission failure and the odds of a mishap are more than "not likely", the Commanding Officer has to make the decision whether or not to do it.

In the real world, most every body does some form of ORM subconsciously without planning, during after the job ie. "Better make sure everybody knows that I dug this hole and put something over it so nobody falls in." I like to call it the common sense factor.

I speculate that the comments you are referring to are concluding that the risk isn't worth the benefits(If your dying, it ain't worth trying) without negotiating controls to bring the risk down. Or, they are sure they will be self sustaining and will deal with it when it's called for.
Poke around a little bit:http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Pages/orm/ORM.aspx

Final opinionated thoughts on bartering:
-After SHTF, unless you are forever content with what you have, you will have to steal, scavenge or barter until TEOTWAWKI dollars are printed. Which lifestyle will be the safest?
-While gold may still have a have monetary value, it will be a while before it will be generally accepted as trade(just a hunch). And, how much do you have in your barter bag now? Keep it as an investment. A broken solar yard stake will have more power in the beginning, no pun intended.

"I should be a psycologist because I understand the inner feelings of all of my personallities."-_JK 3/28/2012_


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## dirtgrrl (Jun 5, 2011)

Toffee said:


> I was totally with you up 'till the end. Really? What makes you think that in a decade women will become trade goods? And for as little as some bullets? People who are still around and still have working weapons will most likely be reloading.


Toffee, women are still trade goods in many parts of the world. It's only been 90 years or so since we were considered citizens in the US with the right to vote. It's been less time than that since we started really having control over child bearing, our inheritances, our children, or our choice of how to earn a living. Men tend to take these things for granted, but believe me, when the rule of might takes over the rule of law, a women's right to control her destiny will be the first to go. Heh, unless, of course, she's packing ...

This statement does not come from some "liberal" education. It is backed up with a lifetime of my own experience.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*WWII*



dirtgrrl said:


> Toffee, women are still trade goods in many parts of the world. It's only been 90 years or so since we were considered citizens in the US with the right to vote. It's been less time than that since we started really having control over child bearing, our inheritances, our children, or our choice of how to earn a living. Men tend to take these things for granted, but believe me, when the rule of might takes over the rule of law, a women's right to control her destiny will be the first to go. Heh, unless, of course, she's packing ...
> 
> This statement does not come from some "liberal" education. It is backed up with a lifetime of my own experience.


Immediatly following the surender of Germany during WWII, the price of sex with a German woman was one ciggerett! Not a pack but a single ciggerett .

A orange or a Hershey bar would pay for a night!


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Bill:

When you are starving you will do anything..

The above was the result of the policy of confiscating or destroying all food stocks in germany and deliberately starving the population. This results in survival sex for food or currency (cigarettes). One of the original but less publized portions of the Morgenthau plan that still got implemented even after the rest of the plan didn't.
The so called care packets came years later when policies had changed.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

dirtgrrl said:


> Toffee, women are still trade goods in many parts of the world. It's only been 90 years or so since we were considered citizens in the US with the right to vote. It's been less time than that since we started really having control over child bearing, our inheritances, our children, or our choice of how to earn a living. Men tend to take these things for granted, but believe me, when the rule of might takes over the rule of law, a women's right to control her destiny will be the first to go. Heh, unless, of course, she's packing ...
> 
> This statement does not come from some "liberal" education. It is backed up with a lifetime of my own experience.


My point wasn't that this would never happen, but simply that it would likely take longer than a decade due to how women are viewed and view themselves currently.

I do believe that it would eventually end up that way, but I think it would be at least slightly modified as women tend to be more venerated in our society and by the majority of this continent's religions also.

I will say that for about 5 minutes, I was slightly peeved at the thought, but then I just had to laugh at myself at how ridiculous I was being.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well this conversation gives me no peace. I'm sitting here watching a movie with my two daughters 6 months and 2 and a half and I hope they don't face that kind of future. Guess daddy will DEFINITELY be teaching them how to shoot!! I would absolutely die if my girls had to prostitute themselves for a ham sandwich. And God help the guy that asks if daddy is still around and kicking!! A decent respect for women is a hallmark of our society and hopefully we don't lose that.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Civilization is only a thin coat of paint over mans true nature


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Yes but mans true nature is always a choice. From ancient times to today everyone chooses to be either good or evil. The scenery and cicumstances change but how you treat others will always be your choice. If you throw your lot in with the violent raping pillaging crew or with the sect trying to live decently is always a choice so choose carefully. Your eternal life depends on it!!


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## snipers_girl101 (Feb 13, 2012)

And we all hope that people's basic morality and spiritual teaching holds. But unfortunately there are plenty of people out there who lack both, who are only held back from living purely by their baser nature by the laws of the land and the fear of consequences. And not the eternal kind. So it stands to reason that when that barrier is removed in a law-less situation, they will have no compunction taking as they please, be it food, firearms or sex. Yes, teach your daughters to defend themsevles. Teach your sons to defend their sisters. And we as grown women should be responsible enough to learn to defend ourselves and our families.

How did we get to here from bartering?? LOL

I was only going to say "freeze dried coffee"...because I have to have my coffee in the am, and I'm sure others do as well.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Came across this list today; sort of a one stop shop for barter items.

Reality tells us that we may soon be coming to a point in which cash is no longer king. The economy has been drying up for years. Over one million Americans filed their initial unemployment claim over the last month. The dollars we bring home are buying less on every trip to the grocery store.

Few of us are completely self-sufficient. There are always going to be a few things that we cannot make for ourselves. If your personal preps are in order, consider investing your prep dollars in a new way: purchase barter items!

A lot of things that are inexpensive now will be invaluable later. As the economy collapses even further, people will be focused on survival and the barter system will reignite. Barter items will be far better than cash - you can't eat a dollar!

What kind of items will be worth their weight in gold? Check out this list for a few suggestions:

* Matches and lighters
* Seeds
* Canning jars, lids and rings
* First aid items
* Tools
* Water Filtration Supplies
* Sewing supplies
* Vitamins
* Salt
* Feminine Hygiene Supplies
* Vitamins
* Fishing Supplies
* Fuel (gasoline, propane, kerosene, etc)
* Sweeteners such as honey, sugar and syrup
* Coffee/Tea
* Carbonated beverages
* Liquor
* Cigarettes/tobacco
* Small packages of food (baggies of beans/rice, etc)
* Livestock
* Cooking oil
* Firewood
* Farm supplies (pesticides, fertilizer, etc.)
* Weapons, Ammo *
* Batteries
* Warm clothing
* Hats/Gloves (think about those little dollar store stretchy items)
* Soap/shampoo
* Hand sanitizer
* Dental care items (toothbrushes/toothpaste/floss)

*Caution: Exercise great discretion when bartering with weapons and ammunition. It is entirely possible that those items could be used against you to take your supplies. These are items to be bartered only with someone you trust implicitly or as an absolute last resort.

Barter items can be purchased at the dollar store, the flea market or at liquidation houses. Don't forget yard sales - even though you already possess a meat grinder, someone who has ammo that you need might not have one. Items that you can acquire and store inexpensively may one day be more valuable than gold.

Don't forget about the items that you can produce yourself. This goes hand-in-hand with the barter of skills. Stock up on the supplies you need to create the following items for a long-term flow of "income".

* Fresh produce
* Ammunition (see *caution above)
* Home canned items
* Preserved meats (jerky, ham, etc)
* Warm knitted or crocheted items (mittens, hats, scarves)
* Yarn spun from animal fibers
* Homemade candy
* Homemade soap
* Homemade candles
* Wooden or clay bowls and plates
* Herbal remedies

Use this list to get your creative juices flowing. What items do you possess the ability to make? Which of these items will be particularly useful if the grid goes down or if the economy crumbles?

http://readynutrition.com/resources/cash-is-out-bartering-is-king_26042012/


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

And here is a list of skills that could be useful.

In the situation of economic collapse, there will be a revival of the barter system. To barter means to exchange your goods or services for someone else's goods or services. To complete a satisfactory barter transaction, each person must desire something from the other party. Despite the potential of desperation, it's morally imperative to be fair to the party that is most in need. Remember that one day, that person who is most in need may be you.

Right now, if something breaks, the replacement is only as far away as the closest Wal-Mart. However, in the event of an economic collapse or a disaster that causes the trucks to stop running, it won't be easy to replace broken items. The ability to repair broken items will be in very high demand. It will be a rare skill, because we live in a world of planned obsolescence. Few people actually know how to repair an item in a sturdy and long-lasting way.

Brandon Smith of Alt-Market calls this about bringing back the American Tradesman:

"If you wish to survive after the destruction of the mainstream system that has babied us for so long," he says, "you must be able to either make a necessary product, repair a necessary product, or teach a necessary skill. A limited few have the capital required to stockpile enough barter goods or gold and silver to live indefinitely. The American Tradesman must return in full force, not only for the sake of self preservation, but also for the sake of our heritage at large."

Check out Brandon's excellent article on the barter system here.

There is no limit to the skills that could be used in a barter situation. Some examples would be:

* First Aid for traumatic injuries
* Sutures
* Midwifery/delivering babies
* Dental care
* Herbal remedies
* Animal Husbandry
* Veterinary Skills
* Teaching children
* Teaching skills to adults like knitting, gardening, machine repair, etc.
* Mechanic's skills: the ability to fix solar generators, small machines, automobiles, etc.
* Other repair skills: the ability to repair tools, woodstoves, plumbing, etc.
* Gardening/Farming
* Construction
* Gunsmithing/Weapon repair
* Security services
* Food Preservation
* Sewing/Mending
* Making soap and candles
* Blacksmithing

If the grid goes down or the economy collapses in a long-term way, gone are the days of making your living doing IT work or ringing through purchases at the grocery store. You will need to become not only self-sufficient, but a provider of goods or services. Consider what abilities and knowledge you possess that can be shared with others. Nobody can do it alone - there is always going to be something you need that you can't provide for yourself.

http://readynutrition.com/resources/the-barter-value-of-skills_23042012/


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

Because I feel that it is my Christian duty to share, I've put together little "barter bags". I don't think I'd ever trade ammo with somebody cause you've just given them the ability to kill you when/if they run out of food. 
In the hygiene bags I have a bar soap, a wash rag, a box of matches, a toothbrush, floss and toothpaste, some cloth mentstral pads, a small package of disposable razors, a bottle of hand sanitizer, a box of band aids and a tube of antibiotic gel.
In the food bags I have 2 cans of chicken noodle soup, a can of beef stew, a can of green beans, a can of peaches, a vacuum package of elbow noodles, a vacuum package of dehydrated mushrooms (it's what I had a lot of), 2 cans of tuna, and a box of matches.
I only have 2 of each kind of bag so far, and they will probably change over time, but for now I think it's o.k. I can add to or take away from as necessary depending on the trade and I plan not to do any bartering with people on my front doorstep so they won't get the idea that I've got things stashed. I've thought about the value of booze, but then kinda think that I wouldn't want to contribute to a lot of problems with armed, starving drunk people, lol. besides, booze is expensive and I have lots of other things to spend that money on.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> You will need to become not only self-sufficient, but a provider of goods or services.


Okay, that's an oxymoron right there. If your truly self sufficient you have no reason to provide skills to anyone else other than charity. I don't see charity as a major survival influence.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

bahramthered said:


> If your truly self sufficient you have no reason to provide skills to anyone else other than charity.


Then you apparently are one of those :nuts: that think you're going to head off to the woods and make it on your own or take what you want by force. Good luck with that.

Either way, what are you doing on this board Rambo.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> Then you apparently are one of those :nuts: that think you're going to head off to the woods and make it on your own or take what you want by force. Good luck with that.
> 
> Either way, what are you doing on this board Rambo.


:congrat::congrat::congrat::congrat: Well said Sir.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

bahramthered said:


> Okay, that's an oxymoron right there. If your truly self sufficient you have no reason to provide skills to anyone else other than charity. I don't see charity as a major survival influence.


So what I get from your statement is, if we are trying to rebuild some type of workable community after TSHTF, you say *don't* provide anyone with any skill sets that you or a member of you "tribe" has that could be useful in helping to restore a better way of life for that community. If that is truly how you think and feel, then IMO that's one of the most selfish, arrogant, and truly antisocial things that I have read in a long while.

Are you on this forum just to get what information you can, not share any information or experience that you have with others and then use your gained information for your use only or am I misreading your intent?

If what I suspect is true about your intent on here, then please go away and live on top of some mountain far away from anyone that has a wish to rebuild this Country the "right way".


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

As a teenager I was forced to learn to use a mule team to plow. And belive me it was under protest that I learned. We had a tractor and at the time I just couldn't see why I might ever need to know how to do the work with antique equipment. In hindsight though I'm glad I learned that skill. For trade I can plow and harrow peoples land if I had to. These old skills could become very neccesary after tshtf. Those services could be traded.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

md1911 said:


> As a teenager I was forced to learn to use a mule team to plow. And belive me it was under protest that I learned. We had a tractor and at the time I just couldn't see why I might ever need to know how to do the work with antique equipment. In hindsight though I'm glad I learned that skill. For trade I can plow and harrow peoples land if I had to. These old skills could become very neccesary after tshtf. Those services could be traded.


You are onto something here that most people cannot see. If you live in a semi or rural area buying a few antique hand plows or equipment and restoring them to working condition could be pure gold after a crash. You could use them and barter your services or simply rent the equipment to people you know with a form of collateral or simply sell the extra items for goods.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

Von Helman said:


> You are onto something here that most people cannot see. If you live in a semi or rural area buying a few antique hand plows or equipment and restoring them to working condition could be pure gold after a crash. You could use them and barter your services or simply rent the equipment to people you know with a form of collateral or simply sell the extra items for goods.


I know good farmers who couldn't hitch a mule to a plow and plow a field. Its hard work. Atleast were I'm at it is. Missouri has a lot of rocks. Their are a lot of little tricks that make the old time tools less of a pain.

I am now very greatfull for grandpa making me learn. I cut hay with a cythe. Staked it in piles. Plowed. Feal trees with a ax. Cut wood with a hand saw. Shoot I even had to learn to use a hand drill and a adz.


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## Von Helman (Oct 31, 2009)

md1911 said:


> I know good farmers who couldn't hitch a mule to a plow and plow a field. Its hard work. Atleast were I'm at it is. Missouri has a lot of rocks. Their are a lot of little tricks that make the old time tools less of a pain.
> 
> I am now very greatfull for grandpa making me learn. I cut hay with a cythe. Staked it in piles. Plowed. Feal trees with a ax. Cut wood with a hand saw. Shoot I even had to learn to use a hand drill and a adz.


Oh after a SHTF situation and it comes to survival many people will be FORCED to learn how to do those things you mentioned even by trial and error, but it will still come down to those people still needing to have the actual tools to do the job such as the hand plows or the harnesses for the animals.

Having the skills to use these things is one thing but having the actual tools is a whole other level


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## ILLcUFirst (May 15, 2012)

I'm going to say alcohol and tobacco


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Von Helman said:


> Oh after a SHTF situation and it comes to survival many people will be FORCED to learn how to do those things you mentioned even by trial and error, but it will still come down to those people still needing to have the actual tools to do the job such as the hand plows or the harnesses for the animals.
> 
> *Having the skills to use these things is one thing but having the actual tools is a whole other level*


This is an area we concentrated on for a couple years by going to estate sales and picking up all the old tools we could find; if the price was right. We don't have much horse tack, except for riding, but we have procured a nice collection of high wheel cultivators, scythes; one with a grain cradle, cross-cut saws, drills and just about anything else that doesn't require petro. Should make for some good barter items if it comes to that. 
For now the cultivators are nice decorations in the flower beds but if they ever need to be put to work they're ready to go.


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> This is an area we concentrated on for a couple years by going to estate sales and picking up all the old tools we could find; if the price was right. We don't have much horse tack, except for riding, but we have procured a nice collection of high wheel cultivators, scythes; one with a grain cradle, cross-cut saws, drills and just about anything else that doesn't require petro. Should make for some good barter items if it comes to that.
> For now the cultivators are nice decorations in the flower beds but if they ever need to be put to work they're ready to go.


If you have the equipment but no tack try going to a tac shop or leather shop. Ui have seen some old harnneses and other working tack as displays and decoration. The local boot shop made a real nice harness for me from his pattern. Cost was $250 for everything to hook 2 mules up.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

md1911 said:


> If you have the equipment but no tack try going to a tac shop or leather shop. Ui have seen some old harnneses and other working tack as displays and decoration. The local boot shop made a real nice harness for me from his pattern. Cost was $250 for everything to hook 2 mules up.


Now from someone who has dealt with gears on a mule, the collar has to fit your mule or you'll be in a battle with an animal which can be far more determined than you are. A poorly fitting collar will hurt a mule badly and gall him to blood. Too many people have come by my house in wagons feeling very 'pioneerish' who have mules, drafts, and the like hitched so close to the wagon the animals can't throw their weight into the collars and pull without whacking their back legs on the tree, and sometimes on the wagon itself.

Mules are also sterile, and are an "end product." Now me, I'm looking for a couple of good Gurnsey milk cows and a pair of calves to raise as oxen. They're slower moving, but so am I compared to some 30 years ago, and if anything happens, they're stew meat that can be replaced by your milk cows.

As for barter, we're going with corn whiskey and similar spirits (blackberry and strawberry wine, hard cider, sorghum beer), sorghum syrup, honey, herbal teas, herbal meds, and yaupon holly tea. We'll also have the excess milk and butter from the cows, and our pigs which average 10 to 12 piglets each litter twice a year. There will be eggs, but they're not a year round trade good. The lard off the hogs we killwill be once it's rendered.

Oh, the yaupon holly is a very strong caffiene holder, and the only North American one having been used by Native Americans as "black drink." Coffee beans aren't going to grow around here and there won't be any being shipped in, and I likes my caffiene, a lot.:woohoo:


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

dawnwinds58 said:


> Now from someone who has dealt with gears on a mule, the collar has to fit your mule or you'll be in a battle with an animal which can be far more determined than you are. A poorly fitting collar will hurt a mule badly and gall him to blood. Too many people have come by my house in wagons feeling very 'pioneerish' who have mules, drafts, and the like hitched so close to the wagon the animals can't throw their weight into the collars and pull without whacking their back legs on the tree, and sometimes on the wagon itself.
> 
> Mules are also sterile, and are an "end product." Now me, I'm looking for a couple of good Gurnsey milk cows and a pair of calves to raise as oxen. They're slower moving, but so am I compared to some 30 years ago, and if anything happens, they're stew meat that can be replaced by your milk cows.
> 
> ...


True on the fit for harness and collar. I was just saying if you don't own those things they can be hard to find. I have some experiance working with mules, donkeys, and horses and getting them to pull. I trained a long horn steer to ride when I was a kid.. fitting a saddle was quite a challange. The rest of your to trade or barter ideas are great. I am working on land at this point. Devorice/loss of job. I lost a lot in the last 3 years.


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## cavscout1991 (Jul 28, 2010)

I have been storing large amounts of Fels Naptha soap, Borax and Washing soda to make laundry detergent and other items. I buy 2 boxes of each and 10 bars of soap each time I go to WalMArt and store them in 5 gallon buckets ready to barter a cup or 2 at a time.


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