# What if your BOL is occupied



## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Just read a post at another site that made me think about that situation. I will now install a built-in deterrent and repel system into my shelter, in the event that if we are not there and someone occupies it I can remotely activate a internal repel system which should cause them to evacuate.
With all of my experience and research I should have taken this into consideration.
I do have a hidden serendipitous way to get in by the way and only I know about it.


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## NORTH (Feb 25, 2010)

You know you'll NEVER be able to think of everything! Just make sure the system you install either cannot be used against you or malfunction and deploy while you are inside. I also agree that you should have alternate routes of entrance and egress, cause ya just never know!
I have not begun a "safe retreat" yet because I don't think I'll be in this house for too much longer, but one thing that I have thought about, in addition to planning in my mind and on paper my complete "safe retreat", is, will I be able to enter and exit if needed in the event the house itself has been torched(my plans are to have it connected through the basement).Always have multiple ways in and out.:sssh:


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

You know, a couple of pounds of thermite....remote detonator.... hmmmmm. Now you've got me thinkin'.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

HarleyRider said:


> You know, a couple of pounds of thermite....remote detonator.... hmmmmm. Now you've got me thinkin'.


YikesYou don't want to destroy it, maybe tear gas, burning sulfur. And have a safeguard device inside to disable it.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I like the remotely detonated tear gas idea. What about a remote video camera or two to keep an eye on the place while you're one.


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

Skunks work wonders on getting people out of a building. I have a secret way in to my cabin that I can use as well. The good news is almost alwasy a family membe rusing the BOL for hunting.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Expeditioner said:


> Skunks work wonders on getting people out of a building. I have a secret way in to my cabin that I can use as well. The good news is almost alwasy a family membe rusing the BOL for hunting.


Skunks don't bother me. I have a low tolerance to smell and skunk smell doesn't bother me anyway.

I'd use tear gas. If I recall correctly, Keepshooting® : Your Online Firearm, Sporting Goods, Military Surplus Store in Maryland MD had them at a reasonable price.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

I like the 1lb. canister from fox lab's. Yep that would do it. After a day or so you could still go back in. Would it affect the water storage or food if not 100% sealed, might. Who know's what condition the place would be in either. Emergency exit should if possable be hid dang good. Something to think about but none of us hope to deal with. That's a fact.


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## tiedami (Feb 22, 2010)

hey bunkerbob what about a lock out tube that you have the key to and you can always spray wasp killer down the hole ha ha let em suck on that.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

bunkerbob said:


> Just read a post at another site that made me think about that situation. I will now install a built-in deterrent and repel system into my shelter, in the event that if we are not there and someone occupies it I can remotely activate a internal repel system which should cause them to evacuate.
> With all of my experience and research I should have taken this into consideration.
> I do have a hidden serendipitous way to get in by the way and only I know about it.


Launching a chemical attack on anyone for any reason other than Immediate fear of your lives is against the law.

Some states have an 'Avenues Of Escape' law that says even if you have to jump out a third story window, you have to vacate you OWN HOME rather than harming an intruder.
Force can only be used as an absloute last resort to save your life...

(Personally, I take my changes with a Jury!)
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I would consider good locks and concealment before I went to the extremes of launching chemical attack on someone there.
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Something as simple as blocking a chimney would create a smoke out effect...
And a chimney is a direct access point into any shelter if it can be reached....
(and anyone that hasn't built 'Survival' shelter that was earth sheltered, low to the ground, low observability, wasn't thinking...)

And would smell like smoke for some time to come, but could be reoccupied right away once cleared ventilated.
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If you use chemical weapons (Even non lethal ones) you are going to have to contend with the after effects...
And just in case you have never been in the military or worked the gas chamber,
Something like CS is NOT easy to get rid of! 
You will be scrubbing your brains out for the next year trying to get rid of it since it settles EVERYWHERE and stays active even though it's not airborne!

Most people can't enter a military gas training chamber without weeping like a baby even after it's not been used for weeks...

On the other hand, since they are NOT illegal,
A couple of cases of these wouldn't be a bad thing to have laying around...










And before the crap starts raining down,
These ARE legal in my state for private citizens to own... If you can find them.
They are NOT explosives, and no more illegal than smoke canisters.

Sales are restricted by the manufacturers to 'Approved' agencies,
And since there isn't any laws regarding 'Approved' agencies,
That would be anyone that can come up with enough money to buy in volume...


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

JeepHammer said:


> Launching a chemical attack on anyone for any reason other than Immediate fear of your lives is against the law.
> 
> Some states have an 'Avenues Of Escape' law that says even if you have to jump out a third story window, you have to vacate you OWN HOME rather than harming an intruder.
> Force can only be used as an absloute last resort to save your life...
> ...


Very nice, these will work.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

bunkerbob said:


> Very nice, these will work.


Yup, $50 each at gun shows, ect., when you can find them,
Buy them in bulk, $7.95 each. 
CS is about $3 more ea. than regular smoke in colors...
The place I get them from is a 1 case minimum order (24 to a case)
No mix and match, case lots only.
And lets not forget that $42 USP hazardous materials charge for each case...

Some states have SERIOUS laws about civilians owning the CS type...
There is about 10 states they won't ship to for civilians.

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If they have a fire lit, just plugging the chimney will drive them out for fresh air in no time,
Things will smell a little smoky, but if you are in 'Survival' mode, that's not a big deal,
And in 'Survival' mode, it's going to smell 'Smokey' no matter what you do!

Personally, I grew up with a wood burner, so I actually LIKE the smoky smell! Makes it feel like 'Home' and 'Grandparents' to me!

Grandpa said the old timers used to 'Smoke' the houses in the spring...
Plug the chimney intentionally, and let the smoke fill the house.
That drives out/kills many pests and parasites, like bed bugs, fleas, ect.

We used to take 'Smoke Baths' when out hunting or in the military to keep mosquitoes and other biting 'No See-Ums' from eating us alive, 
And game animals would snap around, have a look when they caught scent of us, then pretty much ignore us after that, so I know the smoke smell was covering human scent.

So it makes sense that 'Smoking' the house would get rid of a lot of nasties....
*Two, four, six and eight legged kinds!*


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## Kriket (Dec 9, 2009)

bunkerbob said:


> YikesYou don't want to destroy it, maybe tear gas, burning sulfur. And have a safeguard device inside to disable it.


What about audio? Would that work? Ear splitting hypersonic, make your ears bleed noise?

Sorry to revive such an old thread, but it's an interesting subject!


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

If it's a true no-holds-barred TEOTWAWKI situation, laws go out the window - tear gas or if necessary, massive dose of CO2 at night........ Masks are useless if there is NO air.
"SSS" in the morning........

If the society is still functioning, have the local Sheriff evict the squatters. "Criminal Trespass" is still illegal, and "Armed Trespass" here is a Class Three Felony.


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## Snowjoker (Apr 30, 2009)

What about a remotely activated version of this?

Flash Fog Security Fog

I have been in a room when one of these went off. Een knowing it is going off scares the crap outta ya...You go into panic mode trying to find the way out. You naturally start gasping for air, even though it does not cause any type of respritory distress...

Just a thought...


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## questor (Nov 9, 2008)

remote operated pepper spray. (the large 'bear' canisters)
manually operated. 
manually disconnected when you enter
manually reconnected whenever you leave

I also have some in the 'entryway'. operated from inside, for people that may be trying to get in whilst I'm there

all fairly well camouflaged.


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## questor (Nov 9, 2008)

Snowjoker said:


> What about a remotely activated version of this?
> 
> Flash Fog Security Fog
> 
> ...


can this be used outside (with out a wind) or does it need to be indoors to be effective


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

> Some states have an 'Avenues Of Escape' law that says even if you have to jump out a third story window, you have to vacate you OWN HOME rather than harming an intruder.
> Force can only be used as an absloute last resort to save your life...


I do believe it is the intruder who will be vacating my home, even if its three stories up.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

You get a container of bleach in there, something that will release the contents rapidly. Then you follow up with a container of amonia that does the same. They mix, it's toxic. Yes, they can do this back to you, but they could anyway. It's how I'd clear places. Prevention? This is something we need to consider in our home security.

I'd like to be able to get smoke grenades at the prices listed. There's things you can do with them, especially AN 18's that make the more potent.



Not incidentally, why wouldn't someone opt for their home to be their retreat. A BOL is bad because it might be occupied, it involves traveling during the worse possible time, and your resources are either not secure or else they have to be brought with you. Having a BOL as a primary means someone needs to rethink what he's doing in his daily life.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Not incidentally, why wouldn't someone opt for their home to be their retreat. A BOL is bad because it might be occupied, it involves traveling during the worse possible time, and your resources are either not secure or else they have to be brought with you. Having a BOL as a primary means someone needs to rethink what he's doing in his daily life.


SurviveNthrive, I would imagine that the majority of members here also plan for BuggingIn, but, as per a couple of the .pdf's that I have uploaded to the board, sometimes BuggingIn is not a choice and plans have to be adjusted for a BOL.

You may live in an area within 5 miles of a railway track. Imagine that the train jumps the track and starts spilling the contents of its tanks and you are downwind. If those tanks are filled with liquid sulfur I would be wanting to get away as fast as I could move. It might take 3 days before I would be allowed back home so I can choose to be put up in a flea-bitten hotel or I can choose my BOL where I am comfortable.

Personally, I am located within a 2 minute walk to the nearest set of railway tracks and while I haven't had a trail derail in my neighborhood, it isn't unheard of. The company that my dad worked for as fireman (now retired) had a runaway train crash into the plant. You can read about what happened at: Canada.com .. oh ya, my dad was part of the clean-up crew that took care of the aftermath.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Hey Jeephammer, How can I take a smoke bath?


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

NaeKid said:


> SurviveNthrive, I would imagine that the majority of members here also plan for BuggingIn, but, as per a couple of the .pdf's that I have uploaded to the board, sometimes BuggingIn is not a choice and plans have to be adjusted for a BOL.
> 
> You may live in an area within 5 miles of a railway track. Imagine that the train jumps the track and starts spilling the contents of its tanks and you are downwind. If those tanks are filled with liquid sulfur I would be wanting to get away as fast as I could move. It might take 3 days before I would be allowed back home so I can choose to be put up in a flea-bitten hotel or I can choose my BOL where I am comfortable.
> 
> Personally, I am located within a 2 minute walk to the nearest set of railway tracks and while I haven't had a trail derail in my neighborhood, it isn't unheard of. The company that my dad worked for as fireman (now retired) had a runaway train crash into the plant. You can read about what happened at: Canada.com .. oh ya, my dad was part of the clean-up crew that took care of the aftermath.


NaeKid, that is a valid concern! Many years back, a train derailed near Panama City while I was stationed there at Tyndall AFB. It spilled a lot of Chlorine Gas - it's heavier than air, and collected in low spots. There were some deaths.
A gas mask is no use in this situation - the chlorine displaces air - even cars stalled in it..... Bad juju!!
Had I not had that weekend off and been at home an extra day, I would heve been driving exactly that area of highway at the time.......


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Bigdog57 said:


> NaeKid, that is a valid concern! Many years back, a train derailed near Panama City while I was stationed there at Tyndall AFB. It spilled a lot of Chlorine Gas - it's heavier than air, and collected in low spots. There were some deaths.
> A gas mask is no use in this situation - the chlorine displaces air - even cars stalled in it..... Bad juju!!
> Had I not had that weekend off and been at home an extra day, I would heve been driving exactly that area of highway at the time.......


A train derailing with a chemical spill is one of the primary reasons one would have to leave (along with a fire,) but that's also a local as opposed to even a regional issue and it's different than bugging out in a survivalism scenario because if you do things right, they're paying for your hotel room. Temporary and localized isn't exactly like bugging out afte TSHTF...you're not going to have to scramble and bemoan the loss of your contingency supplies immediately, there are other shelters, there is infrastructure in place, etc.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> You get a container of bleach in there, something that will release the contents rapidly. Then you follow up with a container of ammonia that does the same.


Having seen an accident where ammonia and bleach were used to clean a commercial kitchen and it cleared the entire building of people and sent a number of them to the hospital, this is a very effective method if the SHTF. Though I would store pool chlorine tablets rather than bleach as the bleach goes bad very quickly. This should also be used on the top floor so that the gas will fill the entire BOL.

As already mentioned this should only be used if there are no longer any rules. If there is a government left just have the police evict and arrest the trespassers.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

sailaway said:


> Hey Jeephammer, How can I take a smoke bath?


Smudging - Crystalinks

personally, I just place greenwood &/or nettles or whatever will smolder & produce a lot of smoke & just get as much of it on me as possible... of course the smaller the fire the easier it is to stradle


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Bigdog57 said:


> Many years back, a train derailed near Panama City while I was stationed there at Tyndall AFB. It spilled a lot of Chlorine Gas - it's heavier than air, and collected in low spots. There were some deaths.
> A gas mask is no use in this situation - the chlorine displaces air - even cars stalled in it..... Bad juju! Had I not had that weekend off and been at home an extra day, I would heve been driving exactly that area of highway at the time.......


Chlorine gas also absorbs through the skin, so even if the oxygen hasn't been entirely displaced the concentrations can get toxic fast.


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

Yep, nasty stuff. And bleach does NOT "go bad" - it merely loses potency over time. Stick you finger into year-old bleach - feel the 'fizz'....! 
So if it's old, just use more of it for the same effect.

But for true longterm storage, the solid form is best.


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## questor (Nov 9, 2008)

"feel the fizz" ???
are you talking about Bleach or Hydrogen Peroxide ??


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