# Will The U.S. / Israel Attack Iran By Years End??



## neil-v1 (Jan 22, 2010)

Hello.....I have been watching tons of reports on the web and tv, most of them say that either Israel (with or without U.S. help) will attack Iran by the end of this year. I was wondering what everyone here thinks the chances of the happening are? Also, what do you think will happen in the U.S. as a result of such an attack? Higher oil prices, riots, world war, etc??????? 

I just don't have a good feeling about the way things are going. I put as much money as I can into being prepared but these reports make me feel like I may not have enough time to be ready. I hope I do. In my neck of the country (Massachusetts) there are not many people who prepare (if any) so I have noone to really ask around here. Does anyone have an opinion to share?


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## testhop (Dec 20, 2009)

*bho dont have the guts*

obama is a gutless wonder and will do nothing. 
except talk .


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

War over there is inevitable, it'! Just a question of when. Personally I don't think it will happen in the next 5 months, but who am I. I pray that we side with Isreal.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I think the US is a bit stretched out (financially and with man power) to start another war without starting a draft and if they tried to start a draft, all wars would end within a week unless the president and the reps wanted to go do the fighting.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

I think a strike by US/Isreal is inevitable. That would then lend the likely possibility of closing the Straight of Hormuz where about 40% of the world's oil passes, which would likely result in severe shortages and skyrocketing prices of gasoline, diesel and other petro-based products.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

First off, Israel has conducted strikes on nuclear and munitions manufacturing facilities several times in the past, no reason to think they won't try to set Iran's nuclear program back a few years.

Secondly, The US has never overtly participated in any of the strikes.
I'm also equally sure the US provides intel for those strikes even though they publicly denounce the assaults/strikes.

Third, Israel will NOT try and occupy Iran.
They simply don't have the manpower or equipment to stay long.
The objective has always been to cripple the threat, then pull back.

None of the past strikes have created a 'World War' type situation, since it's always been a 'Limited Strike', it's probably not going to make much of a difference.

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Now, keep in mind that less than 14% of the US oil imports comes from the Middle East...
So the oil issue isn't a huge deal, but the energy companies WILL take that opportunity to gouge the US for BILLIONS in price increases if something happens there.

Remember the $5 a gallon jump even when there weren't any shortages of crude, just speculators saying that a conflict in the area would create shortages that never materialized...

Just like you are going to get gouged at the pump to pay for the BP spill in the Gulf, 
And since BP raises fuel prices to make some profits for their share holders,
The rest of the companies will do the same thing to make more cash...
JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN DO IT AND GET AWAY WITH IT!

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Now, as for energy,
When I was in Europe in the early 80s, gasoline was between $8-$10 a gallon then depending on what country you were in.

Energy prices have been kept artificially low in this country simply because the government uses tax dollars to subsidize the big energy companies.

A 'Large' engine in a commuter vehicle in Europe is 2 liters, many 'Standard' engines in Europe are 1 liter engines, 
While it's not uncommon for a US vehicle to have a 5 to 8 liter engine,
With some going up to 10 liters in displacement.

Germany, which gets less sun than Seattle, WA, gets about 25% of it's energy from Solar Electric, while the US is less than 1%.

Japan has invested heavily in Nuclear power, which is creating a problem with waste disposal.
Nuclear power plants create on average of 25 TONS of seriously radioactive waste every year for EACH REACTOR,
And that waste has a half life of over 500,000 years, so more than a million years for that waste to become 'Safe'...

Every industrialized country in the world is spending more on alternative energy than the US.
GWB cut the alternative energy research budget down to less than one million a year,
While Ireland has a research budget of more than 40 million a year, and Iceland has an alternative energy budget of more than 70 million a year.

Brazil uses about 70% renewable fuel sources. 
Virtually every vehicle there runs on ethanol/gasoline mix or straight ethanol.
Even a country as poor as Brazil is kicking our butts on renewable, clean energy!

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CONSIDER THIS...

1. 'CLEAN' Nuclear power produces about 25 tons of seriously radioactive waste per reactor every year.
There is no 'Safe' way to store that waste, and it's building up on power plant sites at an alarming rate.

In the event of a natural disaster,
Anything from Hurricanes, Tornado, Earth Quakes, Human Error, ect. can release that waste into the water table or atmosphere at any time.

*What REALLY bothers me is,
There are people right here that can and would use that waste as a 'Dirty Bomb' against the folks in the US.*

Even the water that is used around the reactors has to be stored, and that water is a SERIOUS HEALTH THREAT if it escapes,
And if they get a hold of the solids, the actual brackets, racks, containers the nuclear material is kept in,
That could do a HUGE AMOUNT OF DAMAGE without ever getting a hold of actual fuel pellets themselves!

About 40% of the steel supply in the US shows elevated levels of radiation over background right now!
Think if every metal part that shows up in your kitchen, your car, your hand tools, even your firearms started giving you cancer because some 'True Believer' managed to get his hands on some of that 'Non Fuel' waste and introduced it into the US steel supply...

2. I grew up in 'COAL COUNTRY',
I know the people that dig, transport and consume the stuff.
I have family members that both haul the coal into the plants, and haul the waste away from the plants.

*THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "CLEAN COAL"
It simply does not exist.*

I live just down the road, and do some of the welding for the three power plants locally, and the new 'Clean Coal' plant going in up the road.

I've talked to the engineers, and the fact of the matter is, there is no such thing as 'Clean Coal'...

It's still going to produce just as much Cadmium, Chromium, Mercury, Carbon Dioxide, Carbon Monoxide and everything else as burning the coal does right now, along with a massive amount of Benzine and Dioxins along with PCBs.

Their big brain trust simply wants to pump it into underground wells (Depleted oil wells) which will contaminate the water table,
Or spread it out over a larger area than the fallout from the smoke stacks distribute it now...
Poisoning the topsoil!

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3. BIG ENERGY LIES!

Big energy has had a VERY SUCCESSFUL campaign in disinformation and out right lies.
According to them, Solar isn't feasible, but several countries are using solar at the same price, or slightly cheaper, than coal or petroleum.

Many government installations, space craft, and small producers of solar energy are making power right now at or below the cost of fossil fuels.
This includes companies like UPS which has it's major sorting hubs running on solar with no issues at all.

The campaign for 'Clean Coal' is an outright lie!
The first large scale production of 'Clean Coal' and coal gasification were the Japanese and Germans during WW-II.
Didn't work then, doesn't work now, and until someone finds a way to disassemble the impurities (Lead, Cadmium, Chromium, Mercury and other toxins) at the molecular level, it won't be feasible in the foreseeable future.

The entire 7 BILLION dollar price tag of the 'Clean Coal' plant locally is coming from the US Government, Tax Payer dollars footing the bill...
AND ALL OF US KNOW IT DOES NOT WORK.

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4. The reason I went to Solar is because I didn't want to pay the $57,000 price tag the electric company wanted to put in lines to my river bottom land.
They started out at over $100,000 and came down to just over $57,000.

At $100,000 I just wasn't going to be able to swing that, so since I had been dabbling in alternative energy anyway,
I decided to go off grid with the bulk of my energy being produced by solar electric, and some other smaller projects that didn't pan out too well...

Now I'm self sufficient for the most part.
I've reduced my energy costs to about 10% of what they normally would have been,
And the solar rig is paying for it's self much faster since we just underwent another rate hike of over 25% for the area.

If I had large grain bins to dry grain in, this wouldn't be practical.
If I had production shop that took large amounts of power, this wouldn't be practical,
But for my home, shop, vehicles, this is VERY DOABLE!
I have about $28,000 total (after tax credits/rebates from manufacturers), and other than having to run a generator/welder if I'm welding on real heavy stuff,
I haven't noticed anything other than the power NEVER gets interrupted.

If fuel hits $5 and beyond, I will barely notice it.
Everytime the utilities hikes the rates, every kW/Hr. I produce is worth more towards the payback of the system.

My first 4 panel system should have paid for it's self in 20 years (the duration of the warranty on the equipment)
With rate hikes, it paid back in slightly over 9 years.

I just watch the meter crank out power all day long and grin!
The more they hike the rates, the faster I get paid back and the system starts MAKING MONEY FOR ME!

EVERYONE in the US has Sun Resources,
Many of you will have Wind Resources (I don't get enough wind to make it practical)
A lucky few of you will have water resources, and that is by far the cheapest, easiest way to make your own renewable energy.

Everyone has the opportunity to buy those fuel sipping 4 cylinder engine vehicles or Hybrids,
Outright electric cars parked under solar panel carport or garage roof puts money back into your budget,
And gives the Middle East and South American oil produces the option to eat their oil or starve!

Being Disabled Military Myself,
*Every time I look at that solar array, I see one more US Soldier that DOES NOT have to be fitted for a coffin or artificial limbs in an oil producing country,
Or a terrorist country that is being financed by an oil producing country!*

Many here call me 'Nuts', ask me where my tin foil hat is, ect.
This is the US, they are allowed to believe what they want to,
But in my opinion, if you REALLY want to support the US,
Then make the move to TRUE RENEWABLE ENERGY.

Wind, Water, Sun,
Conserve your power, 
Insulate, use CF or LED lighting where you can,
Work with smaller floor plan houses that are more efficient,
Recycle EVERYTHING,
Don't buy over packaged, or Imported goods,
Don't do business with people that 'Outsource', if you customer service is in India, find a new provider that is based in the US!

REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE, PRODUCE YOUR OWN when you can...

DO BUSINESS WITH YOUR NEIGHBORS INSTEAD OF CORPORATE GIANTS.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Jeephammer said: "Now, keep in mind that less than 14% of the US oil imports comes from the Middle East...So the oil issue isn't a huge deal"

I don't have time to even begin to address your other comments, but your statement above is..........ummmm........amazing.

Suddenly eliminating 14% of our oil supply is a huge deal. Reduce your income by 14% and you'll think that is a big deal. Reduce the temp in your house in January by 14% and you'll think it's a big deal. Reduce the manufacturing capacity by 14% and that's a big deal. Reduce the amount of goods and food delivered to stores by 14% and that's a big deal. The list is endless.

All of it is a big deal, then throw in the psychological affect and it is an even bigger deal. Now add that to a national adn global economy already on the rocks and "huge deal" doesn't even touch it.


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## Rourke (Jul 23, 2010)

I do not see Obama taking any action against Iran - just don't see it.

Israel very well might - I suspect that there would have to be some trigger involved. Possibly creditable evidence that Iran has a working nuke, some kind of military action action Israel, etc.

Rourke


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

Rourke said:


> I do not see Obama taking any action against Iran - just don't see it.
> Rourke


Obama's too busy guesting on talk shows and sporting events to take any action on anything. Makes you wonder who's actually running the country (or ruining the country).


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

JeepHammer, oil is used for more than energy production...it's used for vehicle fuel.

Even if you tell me that you don't drive a car, you're still using goods that depend on fuel. The goods you buy at the store (food, etc.) are transported by trucks and rail, and possibly air and sea, all using fuel. Farm equipment uses fuel to produce food. 

Even if you ARE self-suffient on electricity, the stuff you buy is made in factories and other places that DO use electricity, and their higher energy costs are passed on to you as the consumer.

Same goes with office buildings. Higher electrical costs in the building means higher bills to the company (be it your insurance company, phone company, whoever) and you pay a share of all their increased costs.

I could go on and on. 

MMM and I have less than $10,000 invested in our solar panels and system and have no outside needs for power, and no power line close enough to even think about ever being able to tie into it. But I don't feel smug about it, because I know we're still paying all those other things. 

We had to piece our system together over a few years because we didn't have the money to do it all at once. I doubt many people do have the money to do it all at once, even as cheap as ours was compared to yours. A lot of people do good to keep up with the monthly bill. 

Will our country be involved in a strike on Iran? I dunno, but I'll tell you what, Afghanistan(Taliban) would sure have it coming after they killed that medical team.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm a gambler and would bet my house(it's paid for) that iran is not attacked by the US or Israel. Everything being said now is just MS Media hype, they just have nothing to report. the MSM wouldn't even report that M. Obamas vacation cost us 375,000.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

lotsoflead said:


> I'm a gambler and would bet my house(it's paid for) that iran is not attacked by the US or Israel. Everything being said now is just MS Media hype, they just have nothing to report. the MSM wouldn't even report that M. Obamas vacation cost us 375,000.


If you are right, the world will deeply -- tragically -- regret their inaction. A nuclear-armed Iran will result in WWIII the likes of which will make WWII look like a minor skirmish. Better stock up on potassium iodide if we allow them to develope nukes.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

I still have a gasoline burning tractor with a crank case of oil.
I still have a commuter car with a gas tank full of gas and a crankcase full of oil.
I still have a truck with a gas tank and a crank case full of oil.

My point was, if you reduce your insistence on using fossil fuels, especially petroleum by 15% there is no need to worry about what comes from the Middle east.

I drive around in a golf cart for short trips in my neighborhood.
Solar charged, non polluting, and only needs small amounts of grease (Petroleum based) for operation.

When I go to the local parts store, haul small loads locally, I use a converted pickup truck that runs on batteries.
Again, it has lube in the differential, it has bearings, ect. so it does require SOME petroleum based lubricants.

When we recently purchased a commuter car for the 'Little Woman', we got a vehicle that will rack up between 30 and 40 miles to the gallon,
But it IS a gasoline engine, and it has petroleum based engine crankcase and it does consume gasoline.
It's a 44 mile round trip everyday for her, so I don't have an electric vehicle that will make that trip reliably that has air conditioning, heater, automatic transmission and isn't filthy and broken down.
Since I can't charge it overnight (Solar) there is no point in trying right now.

When I have to haul heavy loads, I hook up the 'Big Truck' and trailer, and I go to town,
Since I drive it on average of once a week, it's not a huge issue because I will normally take the electric vehicles or my little Jeep that gets good mileage.

I can't really go totally off oil, the distribution/support systems around here doesn't allow for that...
And I'm NOT saying to try it unless you have unlimited funds to build your own support systems...
Which I don't by any means!

I'm saying REDUCE your consumption.
If you don't NEED a 8 liter V-8 engine, then don't buy one!
Nothing wrong with getting 35-45 miles to the gallon with a 2 Liter engine.
They are practically giving them away right now since the new models are coming out, and the interest rates are somewhere between Zero and 3%,
So they are cheap enough...

Since I have 'Free' electricity handy, I find myself going that direction instead of gasoline. 
I would LOVE it if they had a plug in electric or hybrid on the market I could charge overnight for the little woman to use.
It simply doesn't exist, and until the warranty runs out on the 'New' car in about 7 years, I'm not going to void the warranty by messing with it until that happens...
Then anything is possible, but if I know my woman, she's going to want a 'New' car with working everything she isn't bored with in 7 years,
So I'll probably wind up with the rechargeable hybrid in 8 years and she'll probably wind up with an electric or hybrid with 8 more years of development.

Which is OK with me, I'm a country kid, and I've always driven older 'Beater' vehicles for daily drivers.

Since we moved to the 'Farm', I've reduced our petroleum bills by about 85% to 90%, so it's not a bad thing NOT buying that fuel with volatile prices,
Buying crankcase lubricants, differential lubricants, transmission oil, ect. as it continues to increase in price.

I'm not doing this all at once,
I'm simply replacing the 'Gas Guzzlers' with something cleaner and more efficient as it comes along...

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with getting 50 or more miles to the gallon when on an open highway at reasonable speeds with the A/C running!
Everyone craps on hybrids and hybrid drivers because they _WANT_ that 8 liter V-8 engine instead of a little charging engine...
But the truth be told, I can't see ANY difference, except noise and I drive past fuel stations, if you drive them at the speed limit and act like you have some sense behind the steering wheel...
(Which also reduces the insurance costs and keeps your money out of the courts for traffic tickets! )

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with upgrading my old Jeep vehicles to fuel injection so they get better fuel mileage.
Or converting to Propane so they burn cleaner and you don't have to change crankcase oil as often or burn as much fuel to get the performance you want out of them...

You can become a modern age dinosaur and go the way of the first dinosaurs,
Or you can adapt, improvise, overcome and become, 
Advance with the technology and progressive thinking.

You would buy the new 'Super Rifle' that shot plasma or lasers or whatever.
You will buy the new clearer optics, night vision, ect.
Why not buy something that actually Keeps money in your pocket and keeps your environment cleaner at the same time,
While reducing our dependency on imported and fossil fuel?

Not very long ago, I got kicked off these types of 'Survival' sites for mentioning I had Solar Electric.
The mindset was so closed they simply didn't believe it because of the propaganda the big energy companies pump out about Solar Electric not working...

Now the guys are grudgingly accepting solar electric, slowly but they ARE accepting it as a viable way to do things...
Why not a rechargeable electric vehicle, or a hybrid, especially a diesel that will run off a lot of different types of fuels?

I don't think 'Survival',
For some reason, sitting in a dark vault or hole in the ground eating flour paste doesn't appeal to me.

Sitting in the dark somewhere cowering from 'THEM', 
Burning those bibles for heat and light,
Eating flour paste or those gawd awful MREs or Dehydrated foods with no seasonings isn't my idea of a 'Bright Future'.

I think 'Sustainable'.
Well provisioned 'Pantry' and/or 'Root Cellar', everything I eat now at hand in bulk.

I think about having power when the 'Grid' goes and 'Cities' are blacked out for weeks while they try and get things working again.

I think about making the 'Junk' and 'Trash' everyone accumulates to work for me, instead of spending money to get it hauled off.

If the local propane place blows up, I can heat the house with wood until I can get propane back out there to do the job again.

If the local gasoline supply gets cut off, I can drive ELECTRIC vehicles until the fuel supply comes back again,
Or until I get some alcohol cooked up to run vehicles on.

If the local power grid goes down, I probably won't know about it for days until someone tells me at the local diner or on the CB.

When the local water systems have a 'Boil Order' or no pressure at all,
I don't know about it until someone tells me about it at the local diner...

You can argue that REDUCTION and SELF SUFFICIENCY isn't a good thing all you want, 
Feel free to call me to come and get your metal waste!
I'll be glad to recycle it for you! (I get to keep the money though!  )

We'll keep on planting the gardens, finding local way to make money that are 'Recession Proof', and expanding our sustainability, keeping our money in our OWN pockets!
I've heard all the arguments before, and I'm going to hear them for years to come,
But the truth is, a little sweat is all it's costing us to save a PILE of money,
And we are reducing the 'Foot Print' we leave on the planet,
In both terms of pollution and extraction of materials.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. Not just a slogan!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Yes, JeepHammer, you are right. If everyone worked hard to reduce their own consumption by at least 15%, it would solve (or at least head in the right direction) a LOT of problems. That goes for individual as well as corporate/business effort.

You're like us...pretty much independent from needing the outside world. Great job!


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Does America look worried, look at how much gas is wasted at NASCAR, all the truck, tractor pulls, all the autos with one in the car going or coming from work or just going and coming, all the gas wasted going to sporting events, concerts. Drive into any city, DC,Miami, NY,LA, look at the waste,all 3 or 5 lanes bumper to bumper. People forgot about the Oil embargo of 1973, now they need a real wake up call. if everyone just parked their car for 1 day a week and in the north shut the thermostadt down by 6 degrees, we'd have a surplus.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Yup, and all the boats on the lakes over the summer, tearing around; and the mud-boggers here that scream around in the mud all weekend, all summer! LOTS of gas used!

And the ATV's and dirt bikes...

Sometimes I wonder, if we're in a recession, why do I see so much wanton spending and usage all around! Heck, WallyW is packed all the time! Spend, spend, spend!


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

Because they are spending what they dont have. Thats why were in a recession. Among other things.


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## dahur (Dec 18, 2009)

Well, Iran did it differently than the others did. They buried their facilities deep inside their mountains. I really don't see how Israel, or the United States could successfully attack those facilities, short of a nuclear attack. 

Israel has nuclear weapons. If they think their destruction is imminent, I'd say look out.


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## idahofreedom (Nov 3, 2008)

Anyone heard of "October Surprise"? Obama's approval ratings are falling fast, and with an election coming up, he seems rather calm and not reacting to what could be the end of democrat control. Why is he so calm? Does he know something we don't?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

idahofreedom said:


> Anyone heard of "October Surprise"? Obama's approval ratings are falling fast, and with an election coming up, he seems rather calm and not reacting to what could be the end of democrat control. Why is he so calm? Does he know something we don't?


Hmmmm.... True that. Makes you wonder. :dunno:


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## Diego2112 (Aug 18, 2010)

I dont really want to think about an Israeli attack on Iran (although I know it's going to happen), mostly because I'm not sure what the US reaction will be. I HOPE they would side with Israel, because let's face it, going against Israel is NOT the brightest thing in the world (take a look at the Six Day's War)... Even the Jordanians admit that!

As far as what it'll do to oil prices, well, like JH said, less than 14% of our supply comes from the Middle East, however, Big Oil/OPECker dont really care about that, all they care about is the almighty dollar... And sadly, since my 40mpg Saturn 4banger got rearended last year, I'm now in a Dodge Intrepid that gets HALF that... No other options to me right now (believe me, if I could AFFORD something else, I'd BE in something else! lawl), but I'm looking. Lucky me, my commut is less than a half hour one way, so it's not THAT bad.

Solar is a GREAT idea, I'm with JH on that one too! :fistbump: I'm looking to get (if not for my whole house) a few panels for my hot water heater, AC unit, Range, and Fridge. That'd reduce my power bill quite a bit! Issue is getting the scratch together for it (I'm not the most financially able individual... lawl).

But back on topic! I HOPE that things blow over, but at the same time, I stand behind Israel 100%.


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