# Guns, gear, getting out of Dodge!



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

The 3 gun kit has been hashed and rehashed to death even by me but if this article is useful it MIGHT end up stickeyed for the new guys.so in this thread I'll try to outline how to chose your kit, save you some bucks and keep you alive.

*Where are you and where are you going?*

The urban Survivalist.this presumes you have nowhere else to go and some like me do not at the moment.

*Choosing the 3 gun kit: *
You need something light, powerful and easy to get ammunition for, so notice what the state and local police carry and imitate as close as possible.around here it's:
M-4/AR-15. 5.56X45 [223 duh?]
Sig Saur or Glock 40 cal.
Remington 870 12 gauge.

A minimum of parts should keep all three running forever however if your local guys use a Ruger Mini-14 I'd still go AR, not because it's a better gun, it's not. but chamber pressure issues with military ammo on the older rifles and finding spare parts will be a royal pain!

Your gear:
stuff you'll always want when out foraging/scavenging:
A small tool kit to repair your weapons with and a few spare parts.all your AR will likely need can be crammed into a stow away pistol grip, likewise a hollow synthetic stock on the 870 will hold all it will ever need.the pistol is a last ditch weapon but you can keep a spare extractor and firing pin stashed easy enough.

Your knife:
It's after the SHTF and you're urban.keep it small and out of sight, some goon might shoot you just for your cool knife!I suggest the USAF pilot's survival knife as a primary and a Buck 110 as a back up.

Other goodies:
A crowbar, a small set of bolt cutters, a small hammer and a slim Jim to get into vehicles. a map of your area , a LED flash light, a means of making fire Rat traps to catch squirrels with, a pellet gun for pigeons and a quart canteen.

Your bag itself:
Any small back pack coupled with a medic bag or mechanic's bag to stash stuff in is great just make sure both are durable and easy to repair, that means cheapo Chi-com nylon is out!

*Suburban kit:*

You're outside the city now.you MIGHT consider staying with the 3 gun kit suggested above it will make little difference but be aware you're not going to see many police out here after SHTF so you're going to be storing more parts and ammo so one might opt for a heavier hitting AK-47 and a higher capacity 9mm or even a heavy hitting revolver such as a 357 or 44 Magnum since you're going to be on your own anyway.add in a 22 pistol or rifle too and a case of squibs for what squirrels and rabbits drift in.

Your kit is getting heavier.in addition to the tools and parts suggested above, add in a multi tool and small adjustable wrench and 3 feet of garden hose to siphon gas with, a water purifier.

The knife:you can get a bit bigger out here, just make sure it's a quality blade.I like a K bar but anything good will suffice,just steer clear if daggers, they're great for fighting but little else.

The kit.ALICE pack and a shoulder bag.might consider some clothes too as you might occasion to switch from grey man to camouflage to hunt or loot.

*The rural kit:*

Go big bore with reach and power! I mean 308/7.62X51 NATO.there's only 3 real choices, each with its own positives and negatives.I like the FN-FAL rifles because they balance nice like an AR, are reliable and when something breaks, easy to fix!not real easy to scope but mounts are out there, I don't know if they're all alike but mine requires a re zero if I remove it.

Next up is the M-14/M-1A.if you've never seen one it's like a WW2 M-1 Garand with a 20 round detachable magazine and the ability to load from stripper clips.they are known for accuracy and reliability but like it's ancestor the M-1,keep the grease pot handy because it needs a LOT on the operating rod and bolt cams.the BIG plus is they're easy to scope and with the type of mount it uses it always returns to a few points of zero not enough the average shooter will even notice!

CETME/HK-91 [and clones]Back in the 80's if you were a survivalist THIS was THE gun if you were "elite". they balance like an AK and the light barrel tends to spread the shots after a magazine full HOWEVER the American made versions use heavier Match style barrels, I have not fired one of these but a heavier barrel solves most of my gripes with the weapon.it can be scoped......for a price, but the good news is that HK mounts always return to 0 and magazines are cheap right now. now more bad news,they like to wreck softer commercial brass due to the fluted chamber,but it can be re sized and used again.

add ons and doo dads abound.

The Kit:
You should be good to go from the suburban kit, just add a snake bite kit, poncho and a blanket.your knife can be a king sized Bowie out here, just be sure you pack a smaller folder.

Next chapter I'll deal with vehicles.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

Magus, I am a 2 month old newbie. Could I ask, for the record, the list of firearms that you own. I will accept the middle finger.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I like the kit! The only thing I would change is a slingshot instead of a pellet gun. They stow away smaller and as long as you can find small rocks its unlimited ammo. I also have a small water filter that I can pump into canteens or camel backs. You can't carry enough water but you can always find some. And I pack a 9mm instead of a .40. The ammo is substantially lighter, cheaper and it still has good ballistics.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

If TPTB are listening.. I own a pellet gun. Thats it... eep:


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## rider1k (Apr 13, 2012)

Magus said:


> The 3 gun kit has been hashed and rehashed to death even by me but if this article is useful it MIGHT end up stickeyed for the new guys.so in this thread I'll try to outline how to chose your kit, save you some bucks and keep you alive.
> 
> Where are you and where are you going?
> 
> ...


Like the list. Very useful.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

JoKing said:


> Magus, I am a 2 month old newbie. Could I ask, for the record, the list of firearms that you own. I will accept the middle finger.


Subtract the HK-91 and you pretty much have it in the list.I don't recommend what I don't own or have much experience with.:flower:


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Only one question, why a slim Jim if you have a hammer?


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## rider1k (Apr 13, 2012)

FatTire said:


> Only one question, why a slim Jim if you have a hammer?


A hammer is a good choice! I've made a living with one for over 20 yrs! It's not just a tool but if you broaden your horizons it can be a weapon! Actually is a utilized weapon of a notable MC gang! And I can imagine that I could use it for many things.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

FatTire said:


> Only one question, why a slim Jim if you have a hammer?


Because... You ever snap into a hammer? a slim jim tastes wayyy better than a hammer! I kid I kid.. But in all seriousness, I'd prefer to use a slim jim because its quieter, and ... If I'm going to keep the vehicle for any amount of time, I'd like the window to remain in tact.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

FatTire said:


> Only one question, why a slim Jim if you have a hammer?


It's noisy and you end up with broken glass stuck in your butt.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

d_saum said:


> Because... You ever snap into a hammer? a slim jim tastes wayyy better than a hammer! I kid I kid.. But in all seriousness, I'd prefer to use a slim jim because its quieter, and ... If I'm going to keep the vehicle for any amount of time, I'd like the window to remain in tact.





Magus said:


> It's noisy and you end up with broken glass stuck in your butt.


Truth. I'd rather stay warm and dry when using a vehicle, rather than bloody, cold, wet and annoyed. Thinking cap would disappear. Lol.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

LOL.nobody's trashed 2.0 part of this yet, I figured one die hard Ford fan would want my head!


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## Onebigelf (Sep 17, 2011)

Not bad. I disagree with some of the logic a bit. I wouldn't worry about what local LEO are issued. SHTF they will NOT be handing out ammo or spare parts.

The 870 is an excellent choice, an equivalent substitute would be the Mossberg 500.

If only going with a single rifle I wouldn't choose a .223, it's not flexible enough. I would go with the .308/7.62x51 instead. Your recommendations of the FAL and the M1A are excellent. I also like the AR-10 platform. .308 gives you range, hunting power, penetration in urban situations and excellent accuracy capability. Either the AR-10 platform rifles or the M1A can double as precision rifles. Both can easily get under 1.5 MOA with good optics and ammo.
My second choice would be 7.62x39 and only my third would be .223. The .223's only real advantage in my opinion is ammo weight. Even weapon weight is a wash as most AR-15s wind up 10lbs or so.

For a pistol, 9mm, 40, or 45 are all good. Carry what you like. Ammo is about as common for one as the other adn nobody will be handing it out on the corner. Most of the major manufacturers make good guns. Glock, Springfield, S&W, Sig, or HK will get it done. I also like the EAA Witness line. They have the added advantage of versatility, as the same pistol will take uppers in .22lr, 9mm, 40 S&W, 10mm, and 45 at $275 each. Superb pistols, accurate and reliable.

As always, your mileage (and preferences) may vary.
John


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

The only reason I cared about what the cops carry is the possibility of trade or scavenging. 
Same goes for the Military.


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Not a Ford fan. Chevy all the way. And a fan of Glock, FN and H&K. Nothing less than a 40cal for sidearm but a smaller revolver for a concealed backup.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Check these bags out! the second one is an IDEAL scavenger pack!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f42/brit-gear-more-sale-trade-10876/#post127635


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I love being the devil's advocate, so here goes.. (now no one get upset, OK?)

If you spend the time to take a long hard look at what is emerging regarding the environment we may soon find ourselves, it is hard not to realize that we are already in a police state. The corrupt in government are intent on subjugating us... enslaving us. Just look at what has happened multiple times in other countries just in the past 100 years. The majority of the population never saw it coming or believed it would really happen to them. "Oh, that can never happen here!" Well, it can.

What makes any of you think you will be allowed to own a gun in the near future, much less military-style weapons? Can't happen here? Yes it can... and it is going to.

I would venture that anyone carrying a weapon will be shot on sight. It won't matter what combination of guns you have. You will be dead meat if you are caught carrying a gun! Please don't even tell me of how you will fight your way out.

You will have two real choices. 1. Go along all meek and mild. Do what you are told even if you do not believe the lie. Be a good little comrade. 2. All the previous, but develop the skills to work the system for the benefit of your family and yourself. Know how to scavenge without being obvious about it. Also know WHEN to scavenge without being caught. Be the village idiot when in the presence of those who can do you harm... or maybe feel sorry for you and throw you a bone once in awhile. Its called survival!

I am a realist. I see whats coming. It isn't Mad Max. Its more like 1917 Russia with a twist of 1939 Germany. 

If we have the chance to fight, I will fight. But if there is no organization, only ones and twos, then its survival with a hope that something will happen later and the opportunity will be there to re-establish our republic.

Think about what to do with the weapons that you have just in case what I describe comes to pass. Should it be Mad Max, well we have all discussed that. But seldom have I read anything about doing what you have to to survive in a strict totalitarian system without hope of overturning it in our lifetime. Maybe out children... or our children's children.

Sorry to be so dire. I know it spoils the fun of choosing gear and discussing it. But its what I see coming, and it will be a lot different.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Yer right Jez...so why bother fighting, just drop yer drawers, bend over and hand them the Vaseline...( Not pointing at you, just the idea)

I see where your coming from but it's not a place I want to be from, If It's about kissing their ass while hoping for a better day some day ...maybe, then hell no... not now not never.

I'm glad our forefathers didn't put off till later what needed doing right then... Don't get me wrong I'm not one to do a replay of the Alamo, but that would be better then a replay of a death camp , sometimes it's better to fight today then never, the stronger "They" become , the weaker "WE" become..

If Not US then Who? If not NOW, then when? I'm too damn old to sit back waiting for a better day.

There is a picture from WW2 that makes all the rounds of the death camp stuff, it's a Jew squatting on the edge of a pit with a Nazi standing behind him aiming a pistol at the back of his head, the look in his eyes says all there is to say...

Sorry folks but I can't squat by a pit, bad knees yanno...

Now to some my words may seem like Bravado, it's not, really, it's just the absolute 100% knowledge that if we ever let them actually disarm us and take control of our lives then America is truly doomed , and I refuse to die on my knees.."( bad knees, remember?)

I'm not braver then anybody else, but I just know in my heart that their way is wrong in so many ways and "we" may be the last best hope for our kids and grand kids..

I often think of my Dad in the landing boat as it approached the beach at Iwo Jima , I know he was scared to death , but when the ramp dropped I know he ran into the hell and never looked back, and I can do no less , at least I would really be fighting for my country, not somebodies way of making a few more billion dollars.

But this is just me, I don't expect anybody else to think this way , I hope they do!! but expect it? no. *


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Who the hell said you'd get Vaseline?

Ye of little faith,read ye the words of the prophets on the overpass.
Revolution is coming.not the one the commies want and I'm not real
sure we'll want it,but it comes none the less.

Read Kurt Saxon's books.You'll never be totally disarmed more than an hour or two.
ever see a bungee cord compound bow?didja' know the right arrow goes through Kevlar
like wet cardboard?he does and he shows you how!


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

Jezcruzen said:


> I love being the devil's advocate, so here goes.. (now no one get upset, OK?)
> 
> If you spend the time to take a long hard look at what is emerging regarding the environment we may soon find ourselves, it is hard not to realize that we are already in a police state. The corrupt in government are intent on subjugating us... enslaving us. Just look at what has happened multiple times in other countries just in the past 100 years. The majority of the population never saw it coming or believed it would really happen to them. "Oh, that can never happen here!" Well, it can.
> 
> ...


Sorry man... I wholeheartedly disagree. There will NEVER be a time in this country where the "People" allow their guns to be taken away. As soon as any administration tried to "collect" our arms... there would be a collective "[email protected]$K YOU" followed immediately by a massive organization in opposition.. a well armed organization mind you. It would not be "ones and twos".. This is America dammit..

Also.. ever heard of the "oathkeepers"? Look them up..

And lastly.. if you research it... you'll see that gun ownership rights are actually heading in the right direction. Look up Otis McDonald VS Chicago.. And what about the Supreme court striking down the handgun ban in DC? The peoples right to defend themselves from ANYONE who threatens to take away our liberty will lose... I promise you that. Notice how gun sales have been through the roof the last few years? Yeah... no one is giving up their guns, except for you maybe..(unless you change your mind and stand with the rest of us)  They can have mine when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> *Yer right Jez...so why bother fighting, just drop yer drawers, bend over and hand them the Vaseline...( Not pointing at you, just the idea)
> 
> I see where your coming from but it's not a place I want to be from, If It's about kissing their ass while hoping for a better day some day ...maybe, then hell no... not now not never.
> 
> ...


I completely agree with you.
I ain't going down on my knee's or bending over for anyone, so if it comes down to it they will meet me face on and I will trust that the Lord will keep the steel in my backbone to enable me to do what I know must be done.

As you said it ain't Bravado, it's simply either standing up for what's right or cowering down and allowing this Country of ours to become a total Dictatorship.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Oath keepers rock.FBI hates them.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

The comments resulting from my post encourage me. I only wish a lot more felt the same way and showed it.

My wife has asked me lately why I choose to be so "out there", meaning why am I making myself a target for speaking out the way I do in public and in the editorials I often write.

I don't know why. I truly do not. I just know that all my life there occasionally came lines that no one could make me cross regardless of the cost to me for not crossing them. 

I, too, would much rather die with blood in my mouth while taking the fight to the enemy if I have to die because of all this crap they are doing than on my knees on the edge of some pit. I've already decided that I won't be making a trip to any "re-education camp" the bastards in the Pentagon are preparing.

But when I read or listen and am told that there may be enough people out there to put that traitorous bastard back in office I just can hardly believe it! How could any American vote for that SOB, now?

And all the while behind the scenes federal agencies are forging our chains. DHS, IRS, BATFE, DOE, EPA, TSA, HHS, the Pentagon, DOA.. all are out there right now under the blessing of Obama and his handlers hammering away at the Constitution. Not a peep do I hear from other than some board like this one!

I talk to people all the time and walk away distraught at how damn ignorant they are about what is being done to us. Why, I asked a well-to-do cattle farmer that I know just recently, "What do you think of Agenda 21 and Obama attempting to implement it?" Do you know what he replied? "Whats that?" I couldn't frigging believe it! I turned and walked away.

Every community should have already formed a militia and be training. Instead I hear comments like, "Well, I'll worry about that when it happens.", or "Oh that could never happen here" with a little laugh.

If the real Americans in this country don't wake up, stand up, and speak up, we are going to be murdered enmass and a handful that choose to fight won't make any difference at all. Yeah, I'm a bit depressed over all of it right now.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Magus said:


> Oath keepers rock.FBI hates them.


*Really???? I didn't know that. I'll join today!.. if it puts a knot in the Feds panties then I'm all for it!!*


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> The comments resulting from my post encourage me. I only wish a lot more felt the same way and showed it.
> 
> My wife has asked me lately why I choose to be so "out there", meaning why am I making myself a target for speaking out the way I do in public and in the editorials I often write.
> 
> ...


*Jez I hear ya, or as Slick Willy loved to say...I feel your pain... but I mean it!... I guess I believe that if they come for me and get me , it will be after I get some of them and I see it as I'm willing to die for what I believe whereas they are dying for what?? coz some political rectum ordered them to? for the thrill of having a badge and gun? or for the $$$ , if so then I'm way ahead of them on all fronts..so FKem..

It ain't how you live your life, it's how you stand at the end of your life *


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> *Jez I hear ya, or as Slick Willy loved to say...I feel your pain... but I mean it!... I guess I believe that if they come for me and get me , it will be after I get some of them and I see it as I'm willing to die for what I believe whereas they are dying for what?? coz some political rectum ordered them to? for the thrill of having a badge and gun? or for the $$$ , if so then I'm way ahead of them on all fronts..so FKem..
> 
> It ain't how you live your life, it's how you stand at the end of your life *


Yep, there it is.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Cop pay is crap.I've see two kinds of cop, those that love the community and want to protect it and control freaks.Now days they seem to favor the latter in hiring.


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## faithmarie (Oct 18, 2008)

Magus said:


> Cop pay is crap.I've see two kinds of cop, those that love the community and want to protect it and control freaks.Now days they seem to favor the latter in hiring.


Too true ... I know both kinds.... the latter are soulless and void..... scary.

Great list also... Magus!


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Don't forget.....almost everyone who signed the declaration of independence paid for it with their life. That is the greatest sacrifice of all and I pray that won't be needed again so the time to stand is now!! Use your freedoms before they get peeled away like corn husks!! The time to stand and spread the truth is RIGHT now.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Yep.sadly freedom is normally paid for with lots of blood.oh well, I hear it makes the flowers grow.
OORA!:shtf:



faithmarie said:


> Too true ... I know both kinds.... the latter are soulless and void..... scary.
> 
> Great list also... Magus!


Ever notice how many people from everyday life are soulless and void these days?when the great culling of the herd comes the vultures and ravens will sing our praises for months on end so that the only sounds to be heard is their song of glory and the gun fire.


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## faithmarie (Oct 18, 2008)

I heard it cries out for justice.... 
Yes yes yes.... many people.... null and void... could it be sports and TV? ummm just kidding???

Did you write that or someone else... but it has a Biblical ring to it... with a twist. Tee Hee


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

The Voids have no cause, they exist to take without giving, to render brutality on those with conscience. Pity them, but fail not to send them on to the next journey.


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## prepare_survive_thrive (May 7, 2012)

My favourite thread so far


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

faithmarie said:


> I heard it cries out for justice....
> Yes yes yes.... many people.... null and void... could it be sports and TV? ummm just kidding???
> 
> Did you write that or someone else... but it has a Biblical ring to it... with a twist. Tee Hee


Shadow wrote it, I just let everybody hear it. 
All spirit has an original home. it's the shield of darkness and the passage of lies that is alien. 

And like F.T says: pop em' and ship em' back for refit, they're defective.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I like the idea of taking a motorcycle if I have to bug out. Yes, you can't carry as much. But you can get around disabled vehicles. Or around man-made road blocks. I'm willing to concede leaving a lot of stuff behind as the cost of getting there alive. Assuming of course that I had a fully stocked bug out location somewhere else. But having an awesome SUV and a trailer full of stuff might get you killed or leave you unable to get there.


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## torquemada (May 6, 2012)

I bought the whole fam bikes and two trailers for family outings lol. It's our get out of dodge mode of transport I plan on sitting quite for the craziness and moving to a better local once Darwin kicks into gear and weeds,out the riff raff. I think noise discipline is more in order than huge amounts of stuff to try and protect. I and my group have the knowledge to survive and what we can fit on the trailers will fill in the holes that our knowledge can't fix. I'd rather not let everyone sitting on the roads know we are coming. And if the roads are not an potion bike go off road much easier than even the best of SUVs.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

If we can't bug in, we have a relatively close BOL at my parents house. If that is no longer an option, we're heading out. We have a relatively small car that can get around stuff well. When that isn't an option we have multi day expedition rated backpacks. We've been hiking more and more. Since we don't have the opportunity to go every day we go weekly and have built up enough stamina to do 10+ miles per day. May not sound like much, but in a SHTF situation, we're going as the crow flies.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

BillS said:


> I like the idea of taking a motorcycle if I have to bug out. Yes, you can't carry as much. But you can get around disabled vehicles. Or around man-made road blocks. I'm willing to concede leaving a lot of stuff behind as the cost of getting there alive. Assuming of course that I had a fully stocked bug out location somewhere else. But having an awesome SUV and a trailer full of stuff might get you killed or leave you unable to get there.


Depending on your bike, you can get a pop up or mini U haul for some,couple that with a side car if they're legal in your state and you can probably hump almost a ton with you but your gas mileage will drop like a rock!


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Magus said:


> there's only 3 real choices, each with its own positives and negatives.


You missed the AR10. .308 was the caliber Stoner originally designed the AR for. There are now several manufactures who make direct impingement and gas piston AR10 as accurate as many bolt action weapons.


BillS said:


> I like the idea of taking a motorcycle if I have to bug out.


I prefer to sit on my deck looking at the pristine wilderness as far as the eye can see. Eating BBQ elk and Oysters Rockefeller. Relaxed listening to old rock and roll. Secure in the knowledge that no matter what happens in the world around us my family will be well fed warm safe and secure until the end of our days.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Oh I didn't miss it.I'd love to try one but I only recommend things I've wrung out and had hands on with. 
Until I do, it could have the best rep on earth but I won't advise one until I use one.If you've had more than 1000 rounds through one, feel free to bonus it, I don't mind a bit. we all here to share the info. 

LaRue tactical makes one I'd trade a little finger for!


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Magus said:


> Oh I didn't miss it.I'd love to try one but I only recommend things I've wrung out and had hands on with.


Ahh so I see excellent policy. Loved every one I've shot, bet you will too. IMO .308 is the most versatile round made.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I loved my FALs, sadly my health required I change recoil stats.


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