# need help finding a belladonna pill for headaches



## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

years ago I used some Dorcey medicines for migraines - it contained belladonna and other ingredients. They were little pearl like pills that you dissolved under the tongue like nitroglycerine tabs. Does anyone know where I can locate them - does someone have an herbal receipt for migraines - your info is appreciated


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*I do not, but...*

I am a migraine sufferer also. I have never had access to anything like that. I have posted about this in other threads. I take Extra Strength Excedrin. It contains aspirin, acetominiphin (sp) and caffeine. I tend to get headaches. When I have a serious migraine, I do not take the two that is recommended, but sometimes take 3 or 4.

Another thing that works is if you can get your hands on some Canadian aspirin, called 222s. They contain codeine and are sold over the counter in Canada.

Migraines can be somewhat mitigated by being careful about what you eat. A Christmas fruitcake is a guaranteed migraine for me. Migraines are largely triggered by mold. Aged foods are something to be careful of.

I know that not every can or will take aspirin, but I have known of no other workable options for me.

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f78/fruit-cake-season-22073/index2.html If you missed the information it is in post #16 of this thread.


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

I'll just add - be careful with belladonna - I suggest touching base with a naturopath in your area, and if one's not available to you then consult someone at your health food store and do your homework, unless you already have, in which case good look in your search.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna

http://www.familycookingtips.com/herbsite/belladonna.php


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

This reminds me of a number of drugs that I used to get from health food stores. They were sold in small blue plastic vials. These worked on the premise that the less the concentration of drug the stronger the effect. They have such a little active ingredient that the FDA can't regulate them. 

Sorry, I just don't remember what they are called but there might be enough information here to spark someones memory. I tried them for a couple of conditions many years ago and I was pleased.

My cousin and my uncle both suffered with migraines. They had good results by drinking extra water.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

lovetogrow said:


> I'll just add - be careful with belladonna - I suggest touching base with a naturopath in your area, and if one's not available to you then consult someone at your health food store and do your homework, unless you already have, in which case good look in your search.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropa_belladonna
> 
> http://www.familycookingtips.com/herbsite/belladonna.php


I agree ...


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

I have had "headaches" for a while or what I thought to be headaches until I really thought about it and "studied" myself. It's not near as bad now as in the past. 
My pain comes from muscle tension in my neck. A LOT of tension. I take Excedrin migraine to combat it. every few days of so I have to knock it back with an additional pain pill. The only real thing that works is Oxycodone. I had a bottle of 30 that lasted 2 years so, I don't have to take it often.
Earlier this year a German doctor gave me Flexeril and Prednisone. This was a head scratcher for me. I knew Flexeril was a muscle relaxer and Prednisone was a steroid. I couldn't put the two together for muscle tension to save my life. He said trust me and explained a bit. I have to tell you. Within hours of taking the meds I was amazed. No tension, no pain, no pain meds for quite a while. 
I have to go to my regular doctor next week and get another round of the Prednisone. I know right now in a SHTF situation I would be screwed in a matter of months. My only hope would be for someone in the group to be good at deep tissue massage.
That did help me quite a bit but, at $65 an hour, I cant afford to go 2 to 3 times a week. 
Thats my 2 cents at 5:15 am


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

http://www.boironusa.com/products/belladonna/

http://www.amazon.com/Ollois-Pellets-Homeopathic-Medicines-Belladonna/dp/B0083V6UV6

Are those what you are looking for?


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I think I'd be to afraid to use that. You'd have to know just exactly the right amount and what to mix it with to get the benefit you're looking for. Just be careful.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

Childrens teething tablets have some belladonna in them and melt in the mouth. They are available at most pharmacies.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

lazydaisy67 said:


> I think I'd be to afraid to use that. You'd have to know just exactly the right amount and what to mix it with to get the benefit you're looking for. Just be careful.


Beladona is a dangerous drug for sure. The product that Mdprepper put the links to has so little of the active ingredient that you would not over dose. The detractors of these drugs claim that they are so dilute that there is no way that they can work. The OP is proof that they do work for some people. I had some success but I had difficulty finding what I wanted and eventually moved to other treatments.

At one point I could have given you a dissertation on this class of drugs but I haven't studied it for decades. There are a number of drugs available in this class depending on what you want to treat.


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

stayingthegame said:


> years ago I used some Dorcey medicines for migraines - it contained belladonna and other ingredients. They were little pearl like pills that you dissolved under the tongue like nitroglycerine tabs. Does anyone know where I can locate them - does someone have an herbal receipt for migraines - your info is appreciated


Any health food store should carry it.
It is a standard Homeopathic Remedy - used a lot in midwifery.
You can get 100 Remedies in a .44 / .45 cal Reloading Box for $150.00.
A starter kit is $75.00 & has 26 common remedies. 100 remedies will treat thousands of problems; quickly, safely, effectively, and with zero side effects.
Recently Jacques Beneviste, Fritz Albert Popp and various Russian scientists have validated homeopathy with hard science.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

jeremiyah said:


> Any health food store should carry it.
> It is a standard Homeopathic Remedy - used a lot in midwifery.
> You can get 100 Remedies in a .44 / .45 cal Reloading Box for $150.00.
> A starter kit is $75.00 & has 26 common remedies. 100 remedies will treat thousands of problems; quickly, safely, effectively, and with zero side effects.
> Recently Jacques Beneviste, Fritz Albert Popp and various Russian scientists have validated homeopathy with hard science.


Do you have a link to buy these kits?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Just food for thought ... first look at the problem and the reason that problem comes to be... (IMO)

I can think of a number of herbs to replace belladonna... And I say use caution when you use this herb.

Research folks ... research.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

*Andi said:


> Just food for thought ... first look at the problem and the reason that problem comes to be... (IMO)
> 
> I can think of a number of herbs to replace belladonna... And I say use caution when you use this herb.
> 
> Research folks ... research.


By all means, always do your homework on any drugs. Andi, may I ask if you have done your homework on this formulation?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Caribou said:


> By all means, always do your homework on any drugs. Andi, may I ask if you have done your homework on this formulation?


I know where I stand... And I know where I stand on belladonna... I hope that is a answer to your question ...

But it is up to others to do their research... IMO ...

We have to research the folks wanting to turn a dime and the "real research" of the herb plus the folks doing a blog ...(good or bad)

Let me see ...do I want a trip to the ER because I read something I on the web ... :brickwall:


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

*Andi said:


> I know where I stand... And I know where I stand on belladonna... I hope that is a answer to your question ...
> 
> But it is up to others to do their research... IMO ...
> 
> ...


To me that sounds like a 'no I didn't check out this specific formulation, I really don't like belladonna'.

The way these homeopathic drugs work is they find something that causes the symptoms you are trying to treat. They take the drug and cut it in half, then in half again, and again, and again. Eventually it is so weak that I seriously doubt that it would turn up in a blood test.

I am not suggesting that anyone take this after doing my homework, I'm suggesting that you might want to do your homework before coming out against it.


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

*Andi said:


> I know where I stand... And I know where I stand on belladonna... I hope that is a answer to your question ...
> 
> But it is up to others to do their research... IMO ...
> 
> ...


The Herb Belladonna is NOT in the same ballpark or even city, as the Homeopathic Formulation. Andi and all are correct; Belladonna is very dangerous -the Herb. The remedy is a totally different thing.

The only Homeopathic remedy I know that the medical industry uses is Nitroglycerin...the only reason is that there is a very slight (infinitesimal) bit of honesty & conscience when it comes to alternative therapy in the industry. http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/73/1/21.full.pdf

Many of the greatest minds our country has produced have been beggared, badgered, fled the country, or been imprisoned or murdered...all because of greedy industries wanting more money.


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

Caribou said:


> Do you have a link to buy these kits?


I will post some links here for comparison, -especially price-wise...
Then if you want to PM me, I can give you the source we get them from.
for $150.00 + $25.00 s/h...a bit cheaper)

http://www.amazon.com/Washington-Homeopathic-Products-Top-Remedies/dp/B002Q0W190 $325.00

http://a2zhomeopathy.com/Homeopathy_Kits/Professional_Kit_I/index.html $250.00

The ones we use are in 200 C.

Differences other than price:

1. The kits online use pellets so tiny, you can't hardly see them -to make them last longer -ie, when you pay 250 to 300 for the kit, they can tell you it will last blah blah years, because they give you X # of doses. 
The ones we get are a perfect size to see, handle and feel when they hit the tongue, etc.

2. The next is a "big secret" but I like to "crack the code" on stuff like that. However, I cannot take credit on this one, but the principle applies.

I will explain. A friend of ours has a huge office filing cabinet -where the drawers open width-wise -4 ft across, five drawers high. In it are hundreds of Remedies -IN ONE POUND BOTTLES!!!
I almost choked when I saw it - the wasted space and MONEY!!!
I said, Char...don't you know you can make those yourself? Did you know -well, read the story, about Constantine Herring; went to South America to catch a Bushmaster -the basis for the Remedy Lachesis...paid natives to catch one.."don't beat it up, or excite it" right!! you get bit, you take the old three steps and drop snake...they beat the crap pout of it...it has venom all over it...maybe he got bit or got venom on him, but he excitedly tells his wife to record his symptoms -to prove the remedy...he survives, but never has use of his arm...that ONE SNAKE -NOW IN THE SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTE (pic location below) -was the first, last and only time that remedy has ever been made from a snake!!!

"Nearly 200 years later homeopaths are still finding Lachesis useful in all manner of complaints involving the blood & circulation. Earlier this week I visited a patient I had been treating for (among other things) intolerable hot flushes connected with the menopause. After taking her case a month ago I decided that Lachesis would suit her symptoms. To my pleasant relief her hot flushes gradually decreased in intensity until, just 2 weeks after taking the remedy she no longer gets them. To say the patient was pleased would be an understatement!"

"Specimens are usually over 6 feet long & snakes over 14 feet have been recorded! It's Latin name means, roughly, 'brings silent death'. They are capable of multiple strikes, injecting a large amount of venom. Even the bites of juveniles can be fatal. The venom itself is hometoxic (it destroys red blood cells) & this results in organ degeneration, shock & frequently death if the correct anti-venom is not administered in time."

http://www.ansp.org/explore/online-exhibits/stories/homeopathic-snake/
http://www.ansp.org/~/media/Images/ans/explore/online-exhibits/stories/bushmaster.ashx

A side note:
Any hemorrhagic issues, specifically, say Ebola Zaire, five of the top six remedies which match the symptoms are...care to guess?
Snake Venoms!!! -Lachesis, Crotalus Horridus, Bothrops, etc...
Truth be told someday, I think it will be proven out that that, and many other problems were bio-engineered, this one from Snake Venom.

Back to the making of kits...
Point is, if you get one kit, you can buy supplies and make 1000 more kits -or one or two or ten at a time, whatever your budget can afford. 
In doing this, you can do several things:
1. Do a small part to take a tiny erosive bite out of the medical industry. "Gutta Cavat Lapidem" "The Drip Cuts The Stone." 
(not by force, but by constant action)
2. Put money in your bank account by developing a Home Business.
3. Keep money in your bank account by not going to the Dr Office, ER and Hospital....
In 126 years of my children's lives, they have seen the inside of a hospital...I think one time -broken arm.
4. Provide for your family in doing all of those -A MUCH LARGER CIRCLE OF SAFETY! 
IE, IF YOU CAN PROVIDE FOR THE PROTECTION OF EVERYONE AROUND YOU by keeping your family & circle of friends, community, healthy, -OUT TO A MILE, 5 MILES, ETC, your family will be the safer. My circle is 100 miles which I intend to protect.

When we go on a trip, we can have 400 remedies (4 different kits) in the size of a small ammo box, and treat hundreds of thousands of problems. 
You can put 4 vials of them in a 35mm film can.

You can get rolls made for pocket knives, and pouches, and ammo bandoliers, etc made for 44/45 -how to carry them is only limited by your imagination...

and they work on any mammal -dog, cat, cow, elephant, skunk...
which does away with the BS!!! "it is just a placebo idiocy.

Tell the cow, or the dog you are giving it a remedy to help the contusion.
See how well that works with a true placebo.
The most dramatic thing I have seen was a child who could not talk yet get hit with a bat -the quintessential "golf ball knot" and the kid was screaming in terror.
Popped a pellet under his tongue and Instantaneously he stopped crying and was calm as you please...then as I watched, in about ten seconds, the knot 
shrunk almost flat to his forehead.

So, Caribou, you know what you are doing, ignore those who know not...

reminds me...

*Confucius Say:

He who knows not, and knows not that he knows not, is a fool, shun him;
He who knows not, and knows that he knows not, is a child, teach him.
He who knows, and knows not that he knows, is asleep, wake him.
He who knows, and knows that he knows, is wise, follow him.*


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Jeremiyah, sometimes we all get into an area where we know just enough to block our learning. In this case we have someone that knows that belladonna is a poison. In this case I know about homeopathic medicine but in other cases I have been the one with half the required info. I have not always been open to new info. I don't blame anyone for being afraid of belladonna, it is quite an effective poison.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Jeremiyah, sometimes we all get into an area where we know just enough to block our learning. In this case we have someone that knows that belladonna is a poison. In this case I know about homeopathic medicine but in other cases I have been the one with half the required info. I have not always been open to new info. I don't blame anyone for being afraid of belladonna, it is quite an effective poison.


 I'm confused on your definition of homeopathic. How can a man made unstable trinintrate compound that doesn't occur naturally be considered homeopathic? As for belladonna it's one of the most potent poisons around. 2 to 5 berries pack enough toxic alkaloids to kill an adult. From this we do get scopolamine and atropine , both drugs are used every day in very safe manners. These are anticholinergics and dry up mucous in extremely low doses, increAse the dose and you will get increased heart rate and irregularities in heart beats, a little bit more will give you nerve gas like delerium. It's all about dose and targeting a single receptor for the desired effect while removing undesirable and dangerous side effects. I used atropine daily in anesthesia. It saves lives in the face of symptomatic bradycardia. If some has a heart rate of 20 and has poor perfusion, 0.4mg of atropine is going to Increase heart rate 40 to 50 beats per minute in a matter of seconds. 1mg may completely restart the heart from pulse less activity, 2mg given to a healthy adult might send them into a fatal arrhythmia. There isn't much room for error with these powerful anticholinergics. There isn't a great way to standardize how much active anticholinergics alkaloids you get out of a berry without measuring a specific molecule. What traditionally is done, is cutting the active ingredients 100 to 1000 fold and then titration to effect. It's always a guessing game specific to that batch. It's not something I would want to do with a plant that offers such a narrowed therapeutic window. As Andi, pointed out there are many better naturally occurring alternatives that safely substitute for an anticholinergic source.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Doc, I may be using the term homeopathic incorrectly, I'm not sure. The dosage I am talking about is is hundreds or even thousands of times weaker than what you are talking about, even at the weakest that you mention.

Edit: The effective dosage I am talking about is so low as to be counter intuitive.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Doc, I may be using the term homeopathic incorrectly, I'm not sure. The dosage I am talking about is is hundreds or even thousands of times weaker than what you are talking about, even at the weakest that you mention.
> 
> Edit: The effective dosage I am talking about is so low as to be counter intuitive.


My questioning of the term was direct at jeremiyah, but now I see he was getting it from the AHA paper which was using it in its original and somewhat archaic meaning. homeopathy as you buy in the stores today are as you say... so minute of a dose its benign. The paper makes a point that the headaches caused by nitroglycerine became the basis for the law of similars. Modern medicine does not treat headaches with nitroglycerine as suggested. The progress in physiology now demonstrates that most headaches are caused by vasodilation of intracranial vessels and nitroglycerine is one of the most potent vasodilators there is. The method in which Hahnemann used it initially was in such a potent dose that tasting it caused the headache...again because simply a drop caused a systemic rapid vasodilatory response. The paper also credits him with the modern method that combutorial chemistry is used today on live subjects (animals, then human trials) to find new drugs.

Using belladonna for HA actually is more in line with modern medicine. The anticholinergics will vasoconstrict just like zomig, imitrex, ergot based meds, caffeine, maxalt... the difference here is that its the idea of gently nudging the body minimally to heal rather than forcing the shift with medication. This combination is not with in the treat like with like philosophy, its a mix of modern counter symptoms with the idea of minimal nanodose of homeopathy.

I don't look down on it. Its a decent adjunctive, but lacks in the realm of urgent lifesaving treatment to be all encompassing. As most people on this site have said, they don't go to a doctor until things warrant it and tend to take care of the minor problems on their own. If you came into the ER in the middle of an asthma attack, you probably don't want a the gentle nudge of a natural trigger than irritates your airway triggering you're body to heal at its own pace with "like treats like". You more than likely want to breath or you wouldn't be there. Epinephrine or a fast acting B2 agonist will give you that. Now if you're asthmas controlled and you really are in hopes of ditching all moderating meds and you want to try homeopathy, that's a much better time to try it. Few people willing to do this would search out a doctor for guidance, they would probably read plenty of available books, ask others of their experience and purchase the homeopathic medications themselves. So its not entirely fair to pit one sort of medicine against another. The people choose the medicine.


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

drfacefixer said:


> I'm confused on your definition of homeopathic. How can a man made unstable trinintrate compound that doesn't occur naturally be considered homeopathic? As for belladonna it's one of the most potent poisons around. 2 to 5 berries pack enough toxic alkaloids to kill an adult. From this we do get scopolamine and atropine , both drugs are used every day in very safe manners. These are anticholinergics and dry up mucous in extremely low doses, increase the dose and you will get increased heart rate and irregularities in heart beats, a little bit more will give you nerve gas like delerium. It's all about dose and targeting a single receptor for the desired effect while removing undesirable and dangerous side effects. I used atropine daily in anesthesia. It saves lives in the face of symptomatic bradycardia. If some has a heart rate of 20 and has poor perfusion, 0.4mg of atropine is going to Increase heart rate 40 to 50 beats per minute in a matter of seconds. 1mg may completely restart the heart from pulse less activity, 2mg given to a healthy adult might send them into a fatal arrhythmia. There isn't much room for error with these powerful anticholinergics. There isn't a great way to standardize how much active anticholinergics alkaloids you get out of a berry without measuring a specific molecule. What traditionally is done, is cutting the active ingredients 100 to 1000 fold and then titration to effect. It's always a guessing game specific to that batch. It's not something I would want to do with a plant that offers such a narrowed therapeutic window. As Andi, pointed out there are many better naturally occurring alternatives that safely substitute for an anticholinergic source.


I am not sure that anyone gave a definition of Homeopathy at all, and to say they are natural would be a semantics situation. 
They are "natural" in that they do not cause bizarre and dangerous or embarrassing side effects like loss of bowel control, heart attack, death, bradycardia, walking of off tall buildings, akathisia, passing out in highway traffic, Excessive bleeding (sometimes fatal), death, 
Ketoacidosis, Swelling of the face, lips, tongue, and/or throat, Difficulty breathing, death, Difficulty swallowing enlarged breasts (in Men( ), stroke, death, tachycardia rectal bleeding, death, priapism (Perpetual erection), pulmonary edema, Transient ischemic atychosis...
oh, and did I mention death...death???...
Is it not true that DOCTOR PRESCRIBED DRUGS ARE NOW THE LEADING CAUSE OF "ACCIDENTAL" DEATH IN AMERICA???
THAT DOCTOR CAUSED DEATHS KILL MORE PEOPLE THAN OPIUM, HEROIN, COCAINE COMBINED?
THAT YOU ARE 9000 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE KILLED BY A DOCTOR THAN BY A GUN???
THAT DOCTORS KILL 225,000 PEOPLE EACH YEAR -according to JAMA article by Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School?

If you take the right Homeopathic Remedy, often you sleep, as the body heals while sleeping. 
If it is not, there is no effect at all. Please compare those effects to the VERY SHORT list above -1/10th of 1% of drug reactions???
Nobody ever dies from a Homeopathic remedy, even the asinine idiots who go to the emergency room and take 9000 overdoses of cyanide, or strychnine, or belladonna, or curare, or opium, etc etc etc etc

Pretty natural sounding, I would think. 
Homeopathic Remedies work on "Like Cures Like" principle. 
Drink enough Quinine, you may experience malaria-like symptoms. Contract Malaria, and Quinine may help. 
Remedies have been made from every Nuclear spill / accident including Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukishima, etc and from Chem-trail residue & substances, HazMat spills, ad infinatum...not "Natural Substances," I would say...I that meaning of the word, they wer enever natural. But they are Holistic -assessing and treating the patient based on the entire person -mental, emotional, physical, etc. Homeopathy treats the problem, the source. Allopathy treats the symptom.
THAT is the biggest and most vital difference to consider. Virtually all disease is caused by stress, and begins at the energetic level. If unchecked, it manifests at the physical level. 
The Homeopathic "Mechanic" looks for the reason your engine is making a noise, or overheating. The allopathic "Mechanic" puts tape over the pesky red pain light, cuts the wire to the oil or temperature light...

Not gonna lecture or try to convince anyone who has a mind like a steel trap, but unfortunately rusted shut, but to encourage those people with a free and open mind to just compare what they can do for their families and neighbors and extended community with Homeopathy -cheaply, safely, and effectively, and in addition, can have hundreds available in the size of one .308 size ammo box...and can duplicate them forever. 
If you are serious about caring for people, then study it for yourself, but if you do, you owe it to yourself and those who rely on you to be honest and look at modern studies which have validated it.

If one would read about five minutes worth of material, they would not make absurd statements in confusing Herbal Belladonna with Homeopathic Belladonna. JFGI really helps prevent these kind of errors)

*As to Nitroglycerin??? 
Let's deal with history and facts, instead of personal opinions.*

Thi is written by an MD, but, hey, it talks about other countries, 
so perhaps he is just a Quack...

http://www.alive.com/articles/view/17244/heart_problems

*Heart Problems?
by Stephen Malthouse, MD*

*
"Nitroglycerine, the well-known heart medicine, was originally a homeopathic remedy. Another remedy, Lactodectus mactans, is perfectly suited to relieve unstable angina when the chest pain extends to the arm, forearm and fingers with numbness. Homeopathic remedies are remarkably quick-acting and have the potential to augment the use of modern medical drugs in emergencies."*

*"How do they work? A substance that can cause disease in a healthy person can actually cure those same symptoms when made into a medicine by repeated dilution and vigorous shaking (succussion). So, for example, if nitroglycerine in large doses can cause the onset of heart pain in a well person, then it can be used in micro-doses to cure a sick person with the same pain. In general, homeopathic preparations are so diluted that no molecules of the initial substance are left. For this reason, even poisons can be used in homeopathic doses without risk. Aconitum in large amounts can cause great fear of death, so micro-doses can relieve this fear in an emergency. Overdoses of Cactus Grandiflora can cause chest pain "as if the heart is grasped by an iron fist" (or sometimes "a tight wire encircling the chest") in a healthy person, so it can relieve just this type of angina in a small dose. This illustrates the principle of "like cures like" that is fundamental to homeopathic medicine.

The homeopathic pharmacopeia contains more than a thousand heart medicines that must be individually selected for each patient, so prescribing had best be left to a skilled professional."*

****************************************

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/clc.4960180714/pdf

Profiles in Cardiology
William Murrell
by BRUCE FYE,M.D.,M.A

In 1877, Murrell was appointed to the staff of the Westminster Hospital where he served as a medical registrar and lectured on practical physiology. Two years later Murrell published his classic paper in the Lancet in which he described the physiologic effects of nitroglycerin and recommended it as a treatment for angina pectoris.' 
Although he was the first to advocate nitroglycerin for angina, Murrell did not introduce the drug into medical therapy. It was first used by American homeopath Constantin Hering in 1877.
The peculiar doctrine of homeopathy is the reason that an explosive got into
the pharmacopeia. A fundamental tenet of homeopathy is "like cure like." Homeopaths believe that a drug which causes specific side effects is useful
in treating diseases with symptoms similar to those side effects.
*The Italian chemist Ascanio Sobrero, who first synthesized nitroglycerin, cautioned that tasting it predictably caused a severe headache.
Reading this warning, Hering thought nitroglycerin might be effective in
the treatment of headache because it caused this side effect in individuals who tasted it.
Initially, the regular medical profession showed little interest in
nitroglycerin... This is not surprising because
they were skeptical of homeopathic dogma. Moreover, regular doctors worried that they were losing patients to a sect whose practitioners promised cures without using traditional heroic therapies like bleeding and
purging. A few regular physicians and medical scientists studied
the homeopathic remedy nitroglycerin, however. *

******************************************

OK, now let's look at another conventional? allopathic website:
Here is Web MD (unless this is a verboten site to you, dunno):scratch

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/tc/using-nitroglycerin-for-sudden-chest-pain-topic-overview

"Quick-acting (a hallmark effect of Homeopathic Remedies -j) forms of nitroglycerin are used to relieve angina or used just before activities that typically cause angina. The quick-acting forms include tablets or oral sprays. The tablets are placed under the tongue (sub-lingual) or between the cheek and gum (buccal). The spray is used on or under the tongue. This topic covers these quick-acting forms of nitroglycerin."

"Long-acting forms of nitroglycerin are used to prevent angina from happening. They are not used to stop sudden symptoms of angina. These long-acting forms include pills, tablets, skin ointment, and skin patches."
These are all standard modalities of administering Homeopathics.

For sudden episodes of angina, use nitroglycerin in a tablet or liquid spray form.

"Place the under-the-tongue (sub-lingual) tablet under your tongue. Leave it there until it dissolves. If you accidentally swallow the tablet, take another. The medicine won't work if it is swallowed.
Place the between-cheek-and-gum (buccal) tablet between your cheek and gum. Leave it there until it dissolves. If you accidentally swallow the tablet, take another. The medicine won't work if it is swallowed.
Use the spray under your tongue or on top of your tongue. Push the spray canister button once. Close your mouth right away."

Duh...Classic instructions for taking every one of the thousands of Homeopathic Formulations..."...Quacks like a duck?"

*
***********************************

Maybe we could consider this as accurate info...
it is from THE AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION...or are they considered quacks? Dunno again???

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/73/1/21.full.pdf+html

Ooops, it is that pesky W B Fye Guy again...

*"It
is a little known fact that nitroglycerin would probably
not be in the pharmacopeia were it not for the peculiar
doctrine of homeopathy that first led to the purposeful
ingestion of this chemical compound. This essay on
the early history of nitroglycerin will address several
issues relevant to current pharmacologic research and
clinical therapeutics. The synthesis of nitroglycerin
was immediately recognized as a valuable discovery; a
new explosive had been invented. This discovery was
noticed by a homeopathic physician whose therapeutic
doctrine led him to investigate the potential medical
value of organic and botanic compounds. Medical
politics and economics enhanced the skepticism of
19th century "regular" or "allopathic" physicians for
anything advocated by the homeopathic healers. This
contributed to a delay of more than a quarter of a
century before nitroglycerin was used by regular physicians."*

Here is a bit more of the article quoted above,
Heart Problems?
by Stephen Malthouse, MD

Heart Problems?
by Stephen Malthouse, MD
SAVE	
A man has his first heart attack. In the emergency department, the physician observes his overwhelming fear of impending death and gives him two pellets of homeopathic Aconitum under his tongue. The patient describes his chest pain as a fist squeezing his heart, and, as the IV is put in, the doctor gives him homeopathic Cactus grandifora, which relieves his pain promptly. Later that night in the coronary care unit (CCU), the patient awakens with shortness of breath and rapid violent palpitations. There is pain in the region of the heart, a dry cough and a sense of suffocation. The nurse quickly administers a dose of Spongia tosta and repeats the dose again in 15 minutes. The patient's symptoms are completely relieved.

Sounding a bit far-fetched? Homeopathy in the CCU? Well, that's what is happening at the Pareek Hospital and Research Center in Agra, India. Homeopathy has been integrated with conventional allopathic care for heart attacks, angina and other vascular diseases in the coronary care setting of a modern hospital. And why not? Homeopathy is not just a medicine for chronic or long-standing diseases. It has a history of excellent use in sudden acute illnesses as well.

Nitroglycerine, the well-known heart medicine, was originally a homeopathic remedy. Another remedy, Lactodectus mactans, is perfectly suited to relieve unstable angina when the chest pain extends to the arm, forearm and fingers with numbness. Homeopathic remedies are remarkably quick-acting and have the potential to augment the use of modern medical drugs in emergencies.

How do they work? A substance that can cause disease in a healthy person can actually cure those same symptoms when made into a medicine by repeated dilution and vigorous shaking (succussion). So, for example, if nitroglycerine in large doses can cause the onset of heart pain in a well person, then it can be used in microdoses to cure a sick person with the same pain. In general, homeopathic preparations are so diluted that no molecules of the initial substance are left. For this reason, even poisons can be used in homeopathic doses without risk. Aconitum in large amounts can cause great fear of death, so microdoses can relieve this fear in an emergency. Overdoses of Cactus grandiflora can cause chest pain "as if the heart is grasped by an iron fist" (or sometimes "a tight wire encircling the chest") in a healthy person, so it can relieve just this type of angina in a small dose. This illustrates the principle of "like cures like" that is fundamental to homeopathic medicine.

The homeopathic pharmacopeia contains more than a thousand heart medicines that must be individually selected for each patient, so prescribing had best be left to a skilled professional. Although the Canadian medical system is not quite ready to utilize homeopathy in the coronary care unit, patients with heart and blood vessel problems or a strong history of heart disease in the family can benefit in an outpatient setting. Preventive care is important. Often both prevention and treatment require an extensive homeopathic interview (at least one hour) to determine the characteristic features of the patient's complaints, past history, family history and even personality traits.

Research has shown that there is more to heart disease than simply cholesterol levels and hypertension, although these too must be taken into consideration when treating homeopathically. It is possible to reverse the changes of arteriosclerosis or hardening of the arteries with a comprehensive program that includes meditation and emotional healing. Homeopathy contributes by stimulating the patient's defense system to protect and strengthen the entire person-and that, of course, includes the heart. This is holistic medicine at its best.
About the Author
Dr Malthouse practices classical homeopathy in Victoria, BC and is the current president of the Canadian Complementary Medical Association.


----------



## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

You missed the point with the nitroglycerin. When taken enteral, it does not cause crushing chest pain, therefore, with like cures like it would be used homeopathically for angina if it caused similar symptoms. Now since it causes headaches, it might be used to treat headaches. Hamilton advocated nitroglycerin "in all spasms of the cerebral vessels", because at the time he thought head aches were obviously tightening of cerebral vessels, when we know today then are actually dilations. The AHA article credits Hamilton with the idea of the discovery of a still widely used great drug because of his keen observations and push for human trials. But it was not used then nor today in the same philosophy of homeopathic medicine.

Natural or not is beside the point.


----------



## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

Caribou said:


> Jeremiyah, sometimes we all get into an area where we know just enough to block our learning. In this case we have someone that knows that belladonna is a poison. In this case I know about homeopathic medicine but in other cases I have been the one with half the required info. I have not always been open to new info. I don't blame anyone for being afraid of belladonna, it is quite an effective poison.


Caribou,

You have much grace, and great wisdom...blessed are the peacemakers...
Come visit sometime...oh, I know, too warm.

I have a friend who built a full scribe Swedish log home up there -weather around 50 below -finished Xmas eve...heated propane lines, etc...
kept veggie oil in a chainsaw in the truck...


----------



## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

drfacefixer said:


> I'm confused on your definition of homeopathic. How can a man made unstable trinintrate compound that doesn't occur naturally be considered homeopathic? As for belladonna it's one of the most potent poisons around. 2 to 5 berries pack enough toxic alkaloids to kill an adult. From this we do get scopolamine and atropine , both drugs are used every day in very safe manners...What traditionally is done, is cutting the active ingredients 100 to 1000 fold and then titration to effect...


Well, since we are on the subject of Homeopathy vs Allopathy, and their relative effectiveness and safety...

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Just a few examples of the MDs "jumping ship" ie promoting real and inexpensive therapies and for truth, are Stephen Sinatra, co-author of Earthing: The Greatest Health Discovery Ever?, Ben Johnson co-author of The Healing Codes, Harvard Doctor Jennifer Daniels touting of the old slave remedy as an instantaneous candida therapy -Turpentine, Dr Mark Sircus, (sadly, both of these forced to leave the country, are waging their war from outside the US) and Dr Marcia Angell and her book,
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Now a word from our sponsor)

*

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(Included in this email, below).
Special Report That Busts Open One Of
The Biggest Cover Ups In U.S. Medicine

"I'll Never Trust The Money-Hungry Mainstream
Medical Establishment's Malarky Again!"

Dear Concerned Reader,
A special message from Dr. Michael Kessler, DC, Expert in German Biological Medicine

A few years ago, a little boy, 4 years old, was in my care for a debilitating disease called dermatomyositis. He had incredible muscle pain, fatigue and skin lesions all over his body.

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I was able to successfully treat him using a unique form of medicine that most doctors don't know about.

Within a couple weeks he went from having a hard time walking to running and swimming. Within a month and a half, he was off Prednisone completely. The physicians working with him were amazed at his recovery.

Yet despite numerous "miraculous" cures like this, the mainstream establishment has worked hard to keep this medicine hidden from you.
That's why I urge you to keep reading.
...
And even though this unique form of medicine . . .

Has been around for 2 centuries.

Is based on careful scientific study and backed by evidence.

Is respected by famous medical experts like former U.S. surgeon general, C Everett Koop, MD; "the father of immunology" Emil Adolph von Behring, MD; and "the father of modern medicine" Sir William Osler1

Is used in 39 European countries alongside conventional medicine and is the main form of medicine for over 100 million people in India. In Europe alone there are over 26 hospitals that provide this kind of medicine along with conventional medicine. And 20-40% conventional European MD's surveyed said that they recommend these treatments at one point or another.2

Thanks To The Mainstream Medical Establishment,
It's Nearly Impossible To Get Access To It Here
In fact, if you ask your doctor about this medicine he probably won't know what you're talking about.
Or if he's heard of it, he more than likely will tell you it's a bunch of magic potions and snake oil. Not real medicine.
By the time you're done with this report, however, you'll be able to explain to your doctor that he's dead wrong.
Because you'll be among the few to know the truth.
But don't be surprised if your doctor still won't listen to reason.
Because this shocking story gets worse . . .
For as you'll find out,
The Mainstream Medical Establishment's Virulent Stifling Of
This "Alternative" Form Of Medicine Has Nothing To Do With Protecting Your Health And Safety
No, it has everything to do with the threats to the establishment's dominance that this system poses.
Because this special form of medicine made off-limits . . .

Costs far less.

Requires doctors spend more time with patients, listening to them closely.

Treats each person as a whole, unique individual - not a disease to be pigeonholed and dissected.

Uses treatments that are gentle and subtle, yet profound, comprehensive and effective. In many cases, one single pill is enough to bring about a deep form of healing that lasts for months if not years before further treatment is needed.

And as a result, it has an outstanding track record of beyond satisfying results. Results that many people call miraculous.
This form of medicine regularly succeeds in healing people where conventional medicine has failed abysmally.
Consider Mary Weisner's story about her father's recovery from Alzheimer's . . .
Former Alzheimers Patient Returns To Good Health: Wires A Home Generator, Reads Time Magazine And Jokes With Family
Conventional medicine has no answers for Alzheimer's. In fact, most doctors don't even bother testing for it - a painful spinal tap - since there's little they can do to stop the progress of the disease if you have it.
Families have to watch with despair as their loved one regresses to a second infancy and eventually dies.
If you're struggling to fend this off firsthand, you suffer embarrassment, laced with fear about what the future holds. It's a terrible thing to have your mind slip away from you memory by memory.
However, this doesn't have to be the death sentence it's made out to be. Consider Mary Weisner's story . . .
In an interview, Mary Weisner described her shock when she visited her parents and found her formerly witty and capable dad, curled in the fetal position for most of the day. Paranoid and resentful, he barely recognized family members. She couldn't believe how fast the disease had progressed.
Knowing that there was no help for him in conventional medicine, she sought out the advice of one of the few doctors in this country who practice this "alternative" medicine.
On the doctor's advice, she gave her father one single tiny 1/16 of an inch tablet, which he dissolved under his tongue.
What happened next took Mary, her mother and her father's doctor by surprise . . .
Four days later, her father was making sarcastic jokes and had installed an air conditioner, no problem.
On the following Wednesday he installed a generator to the house when the power went out.
When he went for his next checkup with his usual doctor, a conventional MD, the doctor was amazed. See, the last time he had seen her father, Mary's dad couldn't remember his name or who was president.
When the doctor entered the examining room, he found his former Alzheimer's patient busy reading Time magazine and commenting on minivan recalls.
As Mary summed it up, "the doctor is anxious to know more . . . The treatment was easy. It was noninvasive. There were not elaborate regimes to follow. There was only a few hours of our time and one little tablet taken one time."
And according to Mary, the entire treatment, including consultation and long distance phone call charges to the special doctor who helped came to less than $100.3
The treatment? A heavy dilution of the plant called Henbane or scientifically called Hyoscyamus niger.
Now, would this remedy work on everyone with Alzheimer's? Absolutely not.
The reason is that the basis of this treatment focuses on the individual. And that's why there isn't a "cure all" like modern medicine. And that's why it's so effective! Each treatment is for the individual, treating their individual symptoms.
And that's also the reason why you need to be informed. Once you have the power of the information about these remedies, you'll be able to make better decisions about treatments for yourself and your loved ones.

A Track Record That Makes "Modern"
Medicine Look Downright Primitive
There are millions of stories like these of how this medicine has helped, and often enough, where conventional medicine couldn't do a thing.
In fact from the common cold to allergies to arthritis, this special medicine's track record far outpaces conventional medicines.
...
A Medicine Way Before It's Time
So what is this groundbreaking medicine that's barely whispered about in American medical circles? The practice that the establishment once pulled together all its forces to shutdown because it posed such a threat?
"Several Harvard-affiliated physicians have told me in private conversation that homeopathy has helped their family members or friends, but they would not want to say so publicly due to fear of ridicule."

David Anick PhD MD
Research Associate, McLean Hospital
Harvard Medical School8
It's called homeopathy.
You may have heard about it already. You may have heard it listed with other natural healing approaches.
You may have even heard about it from those who attack it virulently. It's got many enemies bent on taking it down for good.
But while skepticism is an essential part of developing responsible and effective approaches to health, many of the attacks launched at homeopathy are completely ungrounded, refuted by careful science, case studies and people whose lives have been changed by it.
Most attacks on this gentle and effective form of healing are based on the threat it poses to conventional medicine
See, unlike conventional medicine, homeopathic treatments work with your body's own abilities to heal.
As millions of people have discovered, the body doesn't need to be bludgeoned with chemicals and ripped up with surgery to get better.
In most situations - even extreme cases - all your body needs is a precise tap - a nudge - a little, very carefully calibrated push in the right direction to do all the work of healing on its own.
To do this, homeopathic physicians use an extremely diluted remedy that has been shown to push the body in exactly the direction needed.
Pushing Sugar-Pills?
Or Pushing The Frontiers Of Science - You Decide . . .
Because these remedies are so light in contrast to pharmaceutical drug's heavy chemicals, critics yell, "Homeopathy's nothing more than a bunch of sugar pills!"
And they're right. If you took a homeopathic pill and analyzed it chemically, you probably wouldn't find anything more than sugar and water in it.
But that's why I say it's a medicine way before its time.
See, the founder Samuel Hahnemann took his physicians oath to "do no harm," seriously. He wanted to make sure that he didn't put any more medicine into his patient's body than necessary.
A far cry from the toxic brews prescribed today as healing drugs.
So he started to dilute his remedies repeatedly, to infinitesimal amounts.
In fact, homeopathic remedies are so diluted that according to physics you can no longer find a single molecule of the substance in the dilution anymore.
As Safe As A Placebo . . . But More Than Twice The Power
Because there's nothing left in the pills beside sugar and water, critics charge that homeopathy works only because of the placebo effect, the power of belief.
However, none of this holds water when you consider the 89 placebo-controlled studies that show homeopathy to be at least 2.5 times more effective than the placebo.9
And certainly, unless we can communicate with animals, it doesn't explain how well homeopathy has worked for veterinarians. Like in this other study...
Are Pigs Smarter Than We Thought?
One German study used 1440 pigs from an intensive livestock operation. Typically, between 24-69% of the animals on this kind of farm were hit with respiratory problems.
The results of this study were startling. While the conventional dose of antibiotics and drugs reduced the risk for respiratory sickness by 11%, the homeopathic treatments reduced the risk by 40%. Almost 4 times the effectiveness!10
Now pigs are pretty smart animals. But I'm hard-pressed to believe that they knew their food had been dosed with homeopathic medicine. Or that their belief led to this astounding difference in results.
This and many other studies on animals show that it's not belief that makes homeopathy work.
How A Pharmaceutical Research Scientist
Proved Homeopathy's Ultra-dilutions Work
So if there are no molecules of the substance in the remedies used in homeopathy - how in the world does it work?
Funny enough, some of the best evidence that homeopathy's ultra-dilutions work comes from a world famous pharmaceutical research scientist, Jacques Benveniste, MD, who wanted to see how ultra-dilutions could help with pharmaceutical drugs.11
Benveniste diluted an antibody 10120 times. That's 10 with 120 zeros after it.
Yet even at this dilution, the antibody affected human cells in the same way that it would at higher potencies.
But here's what's really startling... when they tested for the antibody in the dilution, they couldn't find it. Just like science had predicted, there were no molecules of the original antibody in the solution.
Benveniste wasn't about to allow any room for error. So he made sure this experiment was conducted at six different laboratories in four different countries.
Other scientists created similar experiments and saw the same mind-bending results.12
What Benveniste has done is simply what Galileo did centuries before. He broke through common assumptions about how the world works to demonstrate that there is much more that we don't understand.
California Institute of Technology And UCLA
Researchers Discover Startling New Properties
In Water That Adds To The Evidence
Further research at the California Institute of Technology has shown that when these ultra-dilutions are prepared in the particular method homeopathy uses, it creates unique "ice crystals" in water that don't melt at room temperature.13
And according to researchers at UCLA, these special crystals create electromagnetic signals that have been shown to boost the immune system 100%.14
Again, in neither of these experiments did the dilution contain molecules of the original substance being studied.
These new understandings that tie into quantum physics hint at why homeopathy works. It's not some hocus-pocus. Instead it's an advanced form of medicine ahead of its time.
But there are some reasons why homeopathy doesn't work that are critical to pay
attention to . . .
Why Homeopathy Doesn't Work Sometimes . . .
And What You Can Do About This
While people who have used homeopathy successfully cannot conceive of returning to the old way of doing medicine, there are indeed folks who haven't experienced the same kind of results.
And this is where many of homeopathy's detractors get their fuel.
But ironically, the reason it doesn't work is found precisely in its advantage over conventional medicine.
(It's also why conventional doctors don't want to have anything to do with it.)
See, homeopathy is a very precise science.
For a remedy to work, it has to match your symptoms exactly.
So, for example, if you go see a homeopathic doctor for a headache, he's not going to spend 5 minutes with you and prescribe a basic painkiller.
No, he'll spend over an hour talking to you to find out exactly what you're experiencing.
He'll ask you questions like: Where exactly do you feel the pain? On the left side of your head? The right? Does your neck ache? Your eyes? Is it a throbbing pain, waves of pain, or occasional stabs of pain? Does it get worse in the morning or at night? Do you crave certain foods? Does cool weather make it worse or better?
He'll use your answers to identify the exact remedy that will work for your unique experience of having a headache. In homeopathy there are more than a dozen distinct remedies for headaches.
The homeopathic approach requires a doctor who is committed to working with you, and finding the exact match for what ails you. Not tossing you into a box labeled with an illness.
This takes time and attention.
Most conventional doctors couldn't be bothered spending an hour with each patient.
Most conventional doctors like having an easy, quick diagnosis. A one-size fits all approach. "Take two aspirins and call me in the morning."
In our assembly-line form of practicing medicine, homeopathy doesn't fit very well. And that's precisely why mainstream medical doctors initially fought so hard against homeopathy.
It isn't an easy money-maker.
It takes discipline, research, keen observation and concern for the patient. It takes time.
The Key To Making Homeopathy Work For You
Because of this challenge in finding the right remedy, doctors in homeopathy welcome informed consumers as partners in finding the best treatment.
The more information you can bring to the table, the better.
Similarly, if you're using it on your own at home for minor health problems - which plenty of people do because it's so safe, cheap and effective - you need to know enough to pinpoint the right treatment.
So the best way to make sure you find
the right remedy is to be informed.
In fact, perhaps this is why it's not for everyone. Because most people aren't willing to do what it takes to regain control over their health.
But if you are someone who is determined to take charge of your health - (which I suspect you are) - you're going to love what homeopathy offers.
And that's why you'll love what I've put together for you here . . .
Your Key To Mastering Homeopathy
And Making It Work For You
See, you don't have to worry about this one catch to homeopathy's promise - Finding the exact treatment match.
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----------



## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

drfacefixer said:


> I'm confused on your definition of homeopathic. How can a man made unstable trinintrate compound that doesn't occur naturally be considered homeopathic? ...




"I am not sure that anyone gave a definition of Homeopathy at all, and to say they are natural would be a semantics situation....Remedies have been made from every Nuclear spill / accident including Chernobyl, Three Mile Island, Fukishima, etc and from Chem-trail residue & substances, HazMat spills, ad infinatum...not "Natural Substances,""

"Natural or not is beside the point."

A bit of confusion here...I cannot see that anybody said anything about natural.
Dr Face-fixer brought it up.
I addressed the question - Homeopathy uses multitudes of chemicals, etc which are not natural, but are man made.

Reply? "Natural or not is beside the point."

I agree with that, so case closed.

Minor point, so I will drop it -it was never an issue, perhaps a cavil, whatever...


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Natural or not was a poor way of phrasing that it has such a short half life of being a stable compound by itself that you can't give it well in nanogram doses nor store it well. It just falls outside the realm of what is viewed today as homeopathy. 

As mention in the post you ignored, I clarified the situation myself by fully reading fully the historical AHA paper you posted. 

Stay civil! 

(And when you cut and paste from other website, try not to add your own thoughts within the original content, it changes the authenticity)


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

drfacefixer said:


> Natural or not was a poor way of phrasing that it has such a short half life of being a stable compound by itself that you can't give it well in nanogram doses nor store it well. It just falls outside the realm of what is viewed today as homeopathy.
> 
> As mention in the post you ignored, I clarified the situation myself by fully reading fully the historical AHA paper you posted.
> 
> ...


Yes sir, on staying civil, and adding to content.
I very much appreciate your attitude and even temperament.


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## Jewel (Sep 6, 2014)

I've been a working herbalist (treating others) for almost 30 years. I grew up with and around Belladonna and, while it has many important uses, there are other, gentler things that work as well or better for migraines, in my opinion. But I'm not here to debate Belladonna 

Nothing works for everyone and nothing works 100% of the time. There are different causes of migraines and different triggers. 

What i always suggest first are the simples. You can try one of the following then add two of them together if one alone doesn't work, then three ...

Feverfew - Tanacetum parthenium- This alone works for many people but makes it worse for some. Try steeping a tablespoon of dry herb for 10 to 15 mins then sipping the warm tea slowly. Or take by capsule, although tea inter the blood stream much faster.

White willow bark - Salix alba - as a tea it's fast acting but harsh with very bitter aftertaste. this can be cut with honey, taken with and after. Best used as tincture dropped into a spoonful of honey. 10 drops to start up to a teaspoon.

Valerian - Valeriana officinalis- This is especially successful for those with PTS migraines. It can be taken as tea, capsule or tincture. Tincture is easiest to take with less dirty sock taste.

This is my Wild Moon Cottage Head - Spell Tea recipe. You're welcome to keep it, use and share it but please keep the name the same. 

2 parts chamomile
1/2 part white willow bark
1/2 pt rosemary
1 pt catnip

Can add 1/2 pt feverfew and or 1/4 pt valerian

Best not to drive after taking valerian root until you know how it affects you.

………………….

feverfew and valerian are easy to grow, harvest, preserve and use and are a very important part of a self sufficient life, in my opinion. 


Much healing and pain relief for everyone


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