# essential gun list



## Concerned_ Citizen (Jan 20, 2010)

So im planning on purchasing some guns.....I currently do not own one nor have ever owned one......i have been around guns but the only "real" training i have ever received was the basic M16 training and 9 mil training i received in the AirForce.....not much. 

So this is the idea i have....

1 high powered rifle for hunting deer / pigs - basic caliber, nothing fancy

1 shotgun - also for hunting and home defense

1 good handgun to keep in the house - also for defense

1 9 mil for a possible future concealed weapon permit for the car or similar 

does this sound reasonable?

I also plan on taking some basic weapons training and build on that with some specialty training.


Oh, and i successfully registered for the firearm forum linked from this forum to do some research but it will not let me log in?


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

What errors is it giving you? Pm me I can help you out.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Sounds like a good list.

I have a 12ga shotgun and a .38 revolver right now; I plan to pick up either a glock or another Sig like I used to have when I was in law enforcement, and my dad is ordering parts to build me an AR15. I would also like to pick up a little 22lr rifle for small hunting duties.

I would suggest picking up a revolver just for ultimate reliability, and an AR15 can serve well for both hunting and defense. If I could only own one weapon, it would probably be an AR.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

Don't forget 22 rifle and pistols these are great from small game, varmints. much quieter than center fire guns and ammo is much cheaper.

I've got most major calibers covered 22, 380, 38,357,9mm, 45, 223,7.62x39, 308, 30-06, 30-30, 300 win mag, 12 gauge,


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

The recommendations I gave my son-in-law when he got started was first purchase a 22 (recommended the Ruger 10/22) rifle and 1,000 rounds of ammo. Next a 12 gauge shotgun and 250 rounds of ammo with at least 50 of it in slugs and another 50 in buckshot. Next a 22 handgun. After those initial purchases I recommended an "assault rifle" and 1,000 rounds of ammo. Next a hunting rifle (and 200 rounds of ammo) if the assault rifle didn't double as a hunting rifle or a centerfire handgun of his choice with at least 500 rounds of ammo. Now he just needs to learn how to use them effectively (too much TV and movies!).

The important thing is to have lots of ammo. If you don't have ammo go with a baseball bat and machete. They make better close range weapons than an empty gun.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I actually wasn't too impressed with the Ruger 10/22 . . . I fired a few at my dad's house the other day, and they jammed more than I expected, and he said that that has been his experience with them over the years. I much preferred the bolt-action 22lr that he had.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

if been thinking about one of the Saiga 12 shotguns anyone here have one what do you think?

Saiga, Saiga 12, Saiga 308, Saiga 223, Saiga Shotgun, Saiga 7.62, Saiga AK, 12 Gauge Saiga, Saiga 410, Saiga Conversion, Saiga Rifle


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

pdx210 said:


> Don't forget 22 rifle and pistols these are great from small game, varmints. much quieter than center fire guns and ammo is much cheaper.


Agreed. :2thumb: Never overlook the versatility of a .22. Once you become proficient with it, not only can you take small game, it has the capability of bringing down a deer, coyote, or other large critters.  We have 3. Two rifles, a handgun, and thousands of rounds. I wouldn't want to be without them.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

My 10/22 has worked great with all kinds of ammo. Being a semi-auto with a blowback action it gets dirty fast and must be kept clean. The rifle I use most is a lever action 22. It's much cleaner to shoot.

The main advantage of a semi-auto for defense is that if you're firing from concealment it takes a couple fo shots with a semi-auto before anyone can get a good fix on your location. With a bolt or lever or any other type of action there is a shot then the sound of the action being worked. Plus a good functioning semi-auto is better for the un-initiated when they're under stress. I've seen hunters completely empty a magazine without firing a shot just from buck-fever. In the stress of combat the less a person has to think about the better off they are. A semi-auto is faster when you need to shoot several targets in a hurry. Especially for the inexperienced. If it wasn't for these reasons I wouldn't own an autoloading rifle.

If you own one and want it to function reliably it must be cleaned regularly.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

My Dad bought us girls a 22 rifle when I was 5 years old (he cut 4" of the stock so I could use it). I still have it. Yes, Dad is a bit extreme when it comes to weapons (avid hunter and collector). A great weapon to start with for hunting small game. 

In my area, there is a gun shop with a shooting range. They will let you rent a weapon so you can fire them to see if you like it/can handle it. A shot gun with a kick that knocks you on your hindend will not do you any good in a defense situation. Perhaps you can see if there is something like that in your area.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

A1 on the 22 calb. a must have, i,ve 6 laying around and a little ammo for them. I would advise any one without a firearm to pick one or two up now and ammo 1000 rounds min. per gun. One rifle and pistol anyway. Easy to load and shoot. Much better than a rock or a sharp stick.


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## Jerry D Young (Jan 28, 2009)

Your list is reasonable. I expect to have to defend myself in the event of a TEOCAWKI event.

This is my basic set of weapons:

PTR-91 .308 semi-auto MBR for short, medium, and long range defense & back up for hunting. Also Homeland Defense duties.

Remington 11-87 12 gauge semi-auto shotgun for short range self defense & for hunting.

Glock 21SF .45 ACP semi-auto handgun for last ditch defense. Also for Homeland Defense duties.

Glock 30SF .45 ACP semi-auto handgun as back up for 21SF

Beretta Tomcat .32 ACP semi-auto handgun as hideout gun

Have the above. Intend to add:

H&R/NEF .30-'06 Handi-rifle single shot rifle w/.32 ACP adapters for hunting large, medium, and small game, and medium range sniping

A couple Auto-Ordnance .30 M1 Carbines for hand out guns for non shooters for short rang defense

Remington 798 .375 H&H bolt action rifle for large dangerous game and anti-material sniping.

Your choices will be different, of course. These are just my thoughts and ideas for you to consider.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

the 10/22 was the first gun i owned ..still have it. when it was new it did have feed problems i'm not sure if it was the gun or the after market banana mag that was the problem. after i ditched the mag and 1k or so rounds through the gun feed problems where resolved


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## youpock (Oct 20, 2009)

just my .02


a. is there a mrs? you might want her to have a handgun as well

b. if you are planning on using the shotgun for home defense and hunting you can get two barrels and go back and forth but shotguns themselves are pretty inexpensive, might be easier to just get two - one with a short barrel and high rd cap and one with a longer barrel for accuracy


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## Concerned_ Citizen (Jan 20, 2010)

youpock said:


> just my .02
> 
> a. is there a mrs? you might want her to have a handgun as well
> 
> b. if you are planning on using the shotgun for home defense and hunting you can get two barrels and go back and forth but shotguns themselves are pretty inexpensive, might be easier to just get two - one with a short barrel and high rd cap and one with a longer barrel for accuracy


A. Yes there is a Mrs.......def will be getting her one.

B. someone else was telling me the same. I will be getting prob a cpl shotguns....i do not have alot of cash to get all this at once so i will be systematicly purchasing these One at a time so will be buying in order of practicality.....rifle, 9 mil, shotgun, sec handgun, second shotgun, sec handgun (prob 357 revolver)......


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Jerry D Young said:


> Your list is reasonable. I expect to have to defend myself in the event of a TEOCAWKI event.
> 
> This is my basic set of weapons:
> 
> ...


Wanted ta give a cograt's on the story the other day. Enjoyed the read. :congrat: I like that list ya put on it's well balanced and should serve ya well. For me i will say i know what a AK,SKS,30-06,30-30, 22,9mm,38,20ga,12ga,410 are they are very familiar to me.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Hi CC
I've been at this thing for most of my life, I spent way to much time and money on guns..... one thing about prepping is your never done...ever..best to just live the life style instead of "planning" to live it...

Guns...I will say "IMHO" based on using Ruger 10-22's since they cost $25.00 bucks, which was Loooooong ago, they are without a doubt the finest 22 auto ever made.. they will function without fail...as long as you shoot good quality ammo... now the big name ammo sold in WM is not top quality, sometimes it won't fire on first strike, it will if you turn it to a different area and hit it again...that could get you killed...BUT, with CCI Mini Mag 22 lr they will function every time as long as you keep them lubed and clean... the big box store ammo is just not reliable every time...BUT it's cheap and great for practice and hunting ...for defense stock away 1000 or more CCI's best insurance there is...also the only hi cap 22 mags that ever worked for me are the Butler Creek mags, I have 6 that go back to the first year of production, they still work just fine...I've never tried to clean them because they are rather a PITA to take apart , I only tried once...bad things man... The 10-22 is a poor mans AR and will take down Zombies just fine.. some will say the 22 isn't a good defense round, I say look at the old news tapes of Hinkley's attempt on Regan, 5 shots I think it was with a 22 revolver, 5 hits I believe, and all went down.. none died, but they were down and could have been finished off with ease... now think about 25 of those things going down range...see what I mean?... 2, 10-22 rugers, 10 high cap mags, and 20,000 rounds of ammo ( cheaper stuff) will be about the cost of a good AR-15 with no extra mags or ammo... depending on prices at time.. 

A good shotgun is hard to beat, get a Rem 870 or a mossy ( pumps are much more reliable then autos... get 12 ga.. unless your a bird hunter I would only stock pile buck shot and slugs.. I like # 1 buck for many reason, all learned thru many years of shooting all the different loads.. for survival hunting I don't look at the shotgun as a meat gun simply because shooting a duck costs a shell for little return, a well places 22 round will kill the duck with way less noise ..**Exception...slugs will drop a moose or deer very well!

for somebody just starting out a hand gun is not the best first choice..later on yes, I like the Ruger 22 autos, revolvers in 22 get so dirty so fast that most need cleaning after a few runs..at least all 4 of the smiths I've owned did.. autos reload much faster in a stress situation.. but unless your going to pack a CCW 24/7 you don't really "NEED" anything else right away, later after the bug has bitten and it will !! and after you've got the other stuff then go for a good handgun... 

I'd say even tho I don't own one anymore get a 9mm, Glocks are good, and priced good, there are others but the glock is pretty goof proof... I prefer the 1911 style in 45... but I've carried a 45 almost all my life..

A good bolt gun can get meat but so can a decent auto.. the most fool proof and reliable one made is the AK 47... cheaper then an AR and will keep on ticking regardless... mags are cheap, ammo is cheap and it has plenty of power to kill deer etc... cheap ammo means you can afford to shoot...lots...you can not shoot too much.... practice is everything...

Sorry, this is way more then you asked for but it's the only way I know to say it... just saying buy this isn't good enough, why to buy it is better...

Remember, the winner in a fight gets to keep the spoils.. the looser gets to supply the winner... one well placed 22 lr is worth 30 223's sprayed over the area..


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

Good list also consider "multi use" weapons I have a 870 that has the standard hunting barrel as well as the slug barrel you can change them in a couple of minutes. i also have a stag arms M4 in .223/5.56 that changes to a .22 in less than 2 minutes by simply changing the bolt and magazine.


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

12 gauge
20 gauge
22 rifle
22 revolver

Father in law has about every gun you could legally imagine. :2thumb:


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

pdx210 said:


> if been thinking about one of the Saiga 12 shotguns anyone here have one what do you think?
> 
> Saiga, Saiga 12, Saiga 308, Saiga 223, Saiga Shotgun, Saiga 7.62, Saiga AK, 12 Gauge Saiga, Saiga 410, Saiga Conversion, Saiga Rifle


The SAIGA is nice but you can get a good pump for less and use the money you save to buy ammo!


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## cruelhandchris (Feb 9, 2010)

Alot of people mentioned a .22 rifle and I could not agree more. Stacked against the many other weapons I own, if I had to survive with just one gun, I would take my '64 Marlin M89 over anything else. The versatility is next to none. 

I have mainly covered all the basic areas, I have a Mossberg 500A for my shotgun. A Remington 710 chambered in 30-06, and many .38-.44 revolvers, but I would never take a handgun in a survival or defense situation. Any carbine will always outshoot and a lot of times, underweigh (accounting ammunition) a handgun.
My best recomendations would be:
Shotgun: Mossberg 500 /Remington 870 (the possibilities are endless)
Rifle: Remington 700 / Mosin Nagant 91/30 (extremely cheap and easy to reload yourself)
Handgun: Paras 1911 .45acp (time tested weapons system that can never be challenged.)


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## TreeMUPKennel (Jan 29, 2010)

AR15 is my must have, of course always need a 22lr but I a good conversion kit for the AR is great best of both worlds in one. And the fact that any and every piece of the AR is replacable and can carry a repair kit or maintance kits. Shot guns not to picky on them myself. I use to load up on ammo when I worked with WalMart to stockpile my arsenal. Couldnt beat the discount and the price slash of ammunition boxes or cases that were messed up.:sssh: Most folks think the WM ammo is cheap or second rate ammo, but it is the same stuff as other places. No differance in ammo. Saved lots of money buying all I could over the 7 yrs there.


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## 13thSage (Feb 10, 2010)

Please parden my very humble opinion. I own way too many guns. (I only have 30 or so family members.) I do happen to have examples of guns mentions thus far so I do have experience with each.

I would not want to rely on a 22cal as a defense gun. It lacks the killing power needed. You do not want to leave wounded people with the ability to shoot back when 1 shot should kill.

I would not want to rely on an AK47 as a hunting weapon. It is about as accurate as throwing the bullets at the same range. Mine is a Romanian and is very rugged but not good accuracy at all. Really intended for close quarters fighting.

Recommend and use personally... rifles: bolt 22, AR15, M1a 308 Handguns: 9mm Glock, Medusa Revolver Shotgun: Mossberg pump.

The Saiga is a good shotgun. 

Sage


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Please explain how anyone could own way too many guns!


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## Nina9mm (Feb 10, 2010)

As a newbie prepper, and a newbie gun nut, I can't decide which gun I should buy first, so I've decided to buy my two favorites right now - the model 17 Glock 9mm, and a Bushmaster AR-15 .223. My profile pic is me with my fellow-prepper friend's AR-15. I have tried a .380, a .357 but my accuracy isn't as good with a revolver (shorter barrel?), but I'm pretty decent with the Glock. The .40cal was a little too much for me. Any other suggestions for my third and fourth purchases, based on what I like now? I would like a shotgun that doesn't blow me off my butt. Please break me in slowly - five months ago my biggest decision choices were between colors of nail polish!


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

I'd definitely suggest a .22-caliber rifle. They are cheap to shoot and can put dinner on the table.


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## Concerned_ Citizen (Jan 20, 2010)

Ok, Ok, Ok, .22 is definitely being added........reminds me of my boyscout days......i was actually a pretty good shot with one.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

i wouldn't want to rely on a 22 for defense i don't that thats the reason for it that said someone comes at me with my 10/22 and 30 rounds of cci hollow points there're screwed ! 


There's one gun no one has talked about thats is an important addition for long-term self reliance....... a good pellet rifle accurate, quiet, excellent for pests and small game best of all ammo is really cheap 500 rounds 10 bucks


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

When it comes to choosing guns, my recommendation is that you find out what you are comfortable with. Go to a shooting range. Try out a selection. Don't take someone's word for it.


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

I only read the heading to this post........22 , hand gun, shoot gun, rifle...... anything else is only extra goodies.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Another vote for a .22, but a little differently. Consider a .22 semi auto handgun, like a Ruger Mark III or Browning Buckmark. They are easy to hunt with, much more portable than a scoped .22 rifle and with the 6 inch hunting barrel versions with hunting sights and maybe a red dot optic or something like that, they are very accurate!


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## booter (Jan 23, 2010)

You've heard it before and you hear it again, Ruger 10/22lr. sure its' great to accurize it and you can spend a small fortune doing just that. The point is it works, and its' reliable and relatively cheap, and everyone makes parts for it, and its' fun to shoot, and cheap to own. To those who say that its' useless as a defensive weapon, I seriously doubt that any one of them would want to be shot even once with a Hyper-Velocity HP, let alone multiple hits. Because that is exactly what any .22lr. firearm will allow an inexperienced shooter to do, with almost no recoil, no muzzle blast, and a quiet report, a .22lr. will be allow one to stay on target. What do think the outcome would be if 10-or
so rounds of Hyper-Velocity HP were to impact a small general area, in a short length of time? For most people a single bee sting is a nuisance, if you were attacked by a swarm, that would be another story.

Everyone is sounding off about: stopping power, and one-shot kills, the bigger the gun - the harder they fall! History is a great teacher, provided you are teachable, WW11/the French resistance, Revolutionary War/the underequipped citizens, Vietnam/the Vietcong.
Russia & Afghanistan/the Mujahideen, America & Iran-Afghanistan/the Taliban, wounded
combatants: use up and cost more in resources, are more demoralizing to the front line troops, it takes one coffin for a body, whereas it takes a whole hospital camp to treat a
single wounded troop. 

That said; a walking wounded in that condition, from a well-placed shot from a smaller caliber, is more likely to occur than is a one-shot kill from an untrained/well equipped shooter who is relying upon the articles and opinions of the writers working for the gun
magazines, whose job is to sell their magazines. How many times over the years have articles run extolling the virtues of: 9mm vs .45cal., 5.56 vs .308, .45cal. vs .40/9mm/.357sig? It matters less what caliber, or magazine capacity, or how many guns you own
what really matters is: can you effectively hit whatever you are shooting at, whenever
you want, no matter the conditions. Many people died on both sides in the Civil War, using single-shot black-powder muskets, they didn't spray and pray like the hi-cap mag gun shooters do today. Whatever you decide to own, make sure you own it through: PRACTICE!, PRACTICE!, PRACTICE! 'Apologies for my rant, but sometimes things just need to be put right.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Here's to the .22lr :beercheer:


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## greaseman (Jun 13, 2009)

Nina9mm said:


> As a newbie prepper, and a newbie gun nut, I can't decide which gun I should buy first, so I've decided to buy my two favorites right now - the model 17 Glock 9mm, and a Bushmaster AR-15 .223. My profile pic is me with my fellow-prepper friend's AR-15. I have tried a .380, a .357 but my accuracy isn't as good with a revolver (shorter barrel?), but I'm pretty decent with the Glock. The .40cal was a little too much for me. Any other suggestions for my third and fourth purchases, based on what I like now? I would like a shotgun that doesn't blow me off my butt. Please break me in slowly - five months ago my biggest decision choices were between colors of nail polish!


 Suggestion for a revolver. I bought a Taurus Judge model 4410 , with magnum chamber, and stainless barrel. I love this gun. Shoots 410 gauge shotgun shell in the magnum size, and 45 colt ammo. As a home protection weapon, loaded with magnum shot shells, it will do the trick. I also don't have to worry about the neighbors geting shot with a stray shot. About 20 feet is the effective range with the shot shells.

In a car, this weapon, using the shot shells also makes a good close quarter personal protection weapon. Also for knockdown power, the 45 colt ammo is pretty good. The gun has very little kick, and my wife can hold here own at the target range, practicing with it.

Although, not a good personal carry gun, because of the weight, this weapon can fill several personal protection roles. it is so much fun to shoot.


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## ditzyjan56 (Oct 3, 2009)

like those above said 
22lr
12 ga 
And one semi auto 

since my husband passed away my son inherited all of his weapons and its 2 large gun cabinets full, bet the best thing he did was teach all the kids how to use them properly.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I had to come back to this thread because of the doubts expressed about the lowly 22 LR, I have worked shootings as a LEO that involved 22LR , the last one the guy was hit in the upper left chest, the bullet then bounced around ( xrays) and traveled down thru the body thru the groin area and into the left thigh almost to the knee, he lived maybe 20 minutes from the shot to the ambulance and half way to the hospital, he was incapacitated when I arrived, about 2 minutes of the 911 call..the xrays were very informative !! quite an eye opener..

The post below is from another site and is a very interesting test of the 22 rifle, I was very impressed with the effort the guy put into his tesat, read it and learn!! I did!!

Lethality of the 22LR- Results! - Sniper's Hide Forums


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

WOW!! Never would have imagined at that distance. Great info. 
Time to buy more .22.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

We have several .22's...one rifle and a couple handguns. I agree with all of the aforementioned positive feedback. I'm not real experienced with handguns and the.22's are easy and fun for me to shoot. They are excellent "practice" firearms, but they are enough to lift one's sense of security, too.


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## marlas1too (Feb 28, 2010)

hi im new here but a long time reloader --your list is good but no 9mm a small snub 357/38 is better -2 cal. to use also better than a 9 any day also get a 22 rifle too it will stop a deer with a well placed shot


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## marlas1too (Feb 28, 2010)

sorry i ment a 22 cal last post and to the greseman never use a glock its not safe theres no good safty on it if you must use a no good 9 mm get something in a 1911 style is far safer


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

marlas1too said:


> sorry i ment a 22 cal last post and to the greseman never use a glock its not safe theres no good safty on it if you must use a no good 9 mm get something in a 1911 style is far safer


Sorry, but I beg to differ. A Glock has 3 safeties- it just doesn't have a conventional-type safety. Until a couple of weeks ago, my carry weapon was a Glock 21 (full-size .45). It's really a matter of preference as to what handgun a person buys. As was suggested earlier, go to a range that rents and try several before making your choice. Buy what you are comfortable with, both in caliber and the way the weapon feels.
I recently bought a Taurus Millenium Pro in .45 as a carry weapon instead of a Glock compact because the Taurus felt much better than the Glock.

Tim


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

We can argue the best gun until the cows come home, all of our circumstances are different, so there are many different tools to get the job done. None of them are anygood if you can't hit the broad side of a barn with it. Start shooting, go to an Appleseed Event and put several thousand rounds through it in a weekend get proficient and your gun will be the best gun for yoy.


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

My thoughts about an "EOTWAWKI" arsenal is based on the thought of what kinds of ammunition, parts, magazines, cleaning supplies etc... will be available, either for purchase, barter, scavenging, etc... with those thoughts in mind, I believe some redundancy actually ends up being in order. Of course, these are all just my opinion.

The 22LR is obvious. Available in rifles, pistols and revolvers of all types, it is versatile and ubiquitous. Find the ones that work for you.

A .357 revolver. It also allows the use of .38 ammunition, either for practice, or for availability.

A .45ACP, preferably of the 1911 variety, for ease of finding ammunition, magazines, etc...

A 9mm, whatever make you prefer, but I would humbly suggest a Beretta M9 due to military and LEO usage, they have become more common. Some don't like them, I've never had a problem with them.

A shotgun. As someone else mentioned, the Mossberg 500 allows quick and easy change of barrels to go from rifled barrels to short self-defense barrels, etc... However, just about any 12 or 20 ga. shotgun with a barrel of reasonable length will help. A double barrel shotgun will give you 2 fast shots, faster than a pump, and with practice a quick re-load is easy. They are very simple and hard to break. I also personally love the feel of a good O/U if I am going to try to take down birds.

A common caliber long gun, I don't know that 30.06 is as common as it once was, but it will knock darn near anything on U.S. soil down. .308, .30-30, 7.62x39 are all common and will all knock down most anything you want, either two legged, or four legged if you need dinner.

I love the .223 for things smaller than deer, but everything I have read suggests it is questionable on deer or larger. If you are looking to feed yourself, the one shot, one kill concept becomes more and more important.

Clearly, trying to carry all of these things, along with ammunition simply isn't workable. This sort of a collection assumes the ability to make use of transportation, or some sort of a home location.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

DocWard said:


> 22LR
> 357 & 38
> 45ACP
> 9mm
> ...


For a bug out i agree, at home this is possible except the cost it's expensive to outfit yourself with guns& ammo in all of these calibers if you're are like me you want several in each caliber in case something breaks.

in the end it's pick what you have confidence in


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

pdx210 said:


> For a bug out i agree, at home this is possible except the cost it's expensive to outfit yourself with guns& ammo in all of these calibers if you're are like me you want several in each caliber in case something breaks.


I did mention "parts" availability as a consideration. While ideally I would like to have several of each example in case something breaks, I would far prefer to have one of each that I want to have before becoming redundant in my collection. When it comes to cost, it is up to each of us to decide our priorities, based on our anticipated needs. I hope it was clear that I was suggesting "either/or" in many cases. If someone could have all of the calibers, great, but at least one is, if not a necessity, at least a very good thing.

I personally don't think someone could go wrong by starting with the .22LR in both a rifle and pistol, and building from there. Cost of ownership and ammunition, ease of use for practicing and learning, and versatility all favor it, in my opinion. That isn't to say that any other way would be necessarily wrong.



> in the end it's pick what you have confidence in


You are absolutely right. You have to have confidence in what you are shooting, period. Even if you are capable with another weapon, so much of shooting is psychological. Just having the positive mindset that comes with confidence in your weapon is a big boost.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Just a note on something Doc Ward said up above, about the 223 for deer, Doc I've killed somewhere around 10 deer with my AR 15 and 2 with my Savage 223 bolt gun, none went more then a few feet , all but 2 were heart shots , the 2 were head shots ( I never shoot at running deer ) a deer shot thru the heart gives a jump and will start to run like hell, for at most a few feet in my experience, But I use bullets made to do the job, now anything can fail, I shot a white tail with my 338 mag and lost it, I hate that , funny thing I never had an Elk go more then maybe 2 steps after using the 338 on it.. the best deer killing machine I ever had was a 243, loaded with Nosler 90 gr , they just flat dropped, not a twitch... mostly now days I just stick with the Savage 308 heavy BBL.. most of the deer I shoot in MT are at least 250 yds and out..

Not arguing the point just speaking from personal experience.. I've also killed a bunch of deer with the 22 LR but that was a long time ago and I needed the meat ...as a rule I wouldn't do that but I know it will do the job...quietly!!...

When I had my first can built it was by Elite Iron High Quality Suppressors I got it in .30 cal, but it is set up to go on my 308, my 223 bolt gun and one of my AR 15's , Dale at Elite Iron also did my 10-22 with a smaller 22 lr type can...I got this done expressly for hunting in a SHTF environment where noise might bring dodo down on you ... this is a prep that may well be one you might want, not cheap but well worth the price!!

Did I drift off again? sorry...old age ya know...


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Expeditioner said:


> The SAIGA is nice but you can get a good pump for less and use the money you save to buy ammo!


I meant to answer this and forgot, I do have a Saiga 12, it's a very good weapon , mine has functioned like a swiss watch, I changed the stock on mine but it's fine as it comes..10 round US made mags are pricey, around 39.00 and up, they work too.

In my opinion it's a better defense gun then an assault gun simply because messing with the mags on the run ain't easy.. and it takes time to reload them, with an 870 you can load on the run, or even while shooting, but from cover the Saiga is a deadly tool!! and they are once again available for under 400.00...

I used mine in the MGM Iron 3 gun match in Idaho where the powder dust kills weapons...I shot an AK and the Saiga and a Para P-14, with no problems at all.. I saw all the high dollar shotguns and AR's dying like flies in mid match.. 
nuff said, anything that can survive the Iron Man for 3 days without cleaning after every stage has to be good!!


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

HozayBuck said:


> Just a note on something Doc Ward said up above, about the 223 for deer, Doc I've killed somewhere around 10 deer with my AR 15 and 2 with my Savage 223 bolt gun, none went more then a few feet , all but 2 were heart shots , the 2 were head shots ( I never shoot at running deer ) a deer shot thru the heart gives a jump and will start to run like hell, for at most a few feet in my experience, But I use bullets made to do the job, now anything can fail, I shot a white tail with my 338 mag and lost it, I hate that , funny thing I never had an Elk go more then maybe 2 steps after using the 338 on it.. the best deer killing machine I ever had was a 243, loaded with Nosler 90 gr , they just flat dropped, not a twitch... mostly now days I just stick with the Savage 308 heavy BBL.. most of the deer I shoot in MT are at least 250 yds and out..
> 
> Not arguing the point just speaking from personal experience.. I've also killed a bunch of deer with the 22 LR but that was a long time ago and I needed the meat ...as a rule I wouldn't do that but I know it will do the job...quietly!!...


I've not done a lot of hunting, primarily upland birds. so I have never used the .223 for deer, and don't know anyone personally who has, since the only options in Ohio are muzzleloader, shotgun, pistol and archery. No high powered rifles need apply. Thus, I can ONLY tell you what I have read and the bit of feedback I have gotten from some friends over the years, including one of my fraternity brothers who is well known in the shooting / hunting industry.



> When I had my first can built it was by Elite Iron High Quality Suppressors I got it in .30 cal, but it is set up to go on my 308, my 223 bolt gun and one of my AR 15's , Dale at Elite Iron also did my 10-22 with a smaller 22 lr type can...I got this done expressly for hunting in a SHTF environment where noise might bring dodo down on you ... this is a prep that may well be one you might want, not cheap but well worth the price!!


I can see your point, although I think it would cause the wife, among others, to worry about me and my sanity more than they already do.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

DocWard said:


> I've not done a lot of hunting, primarily upland birds. so I have never used the .223 for deer, and don't know anyone personally who has, since the only options in Ohio are muzzleloader, shotgun, pistol and archery. No high powered rifles need apply. Thus, I can ONLY tell you what I have read and the bit of feedback I have gotten from some friends over the years, including one of my fraternity brothers who is well known in the shooting / hunting industry.
> 
> I can see your point, although I think it would cause the wife, among others, to worry about me and my sanity more than they already do.


Uh Doc, I know you got some school housin an such so could ya spalin them words? Uh..wife an sanity?? I need to get out more..... seems like them 2 words makes up one of them Ox-ie Morons I hear tell of... :2thumb:


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

HozayBuck said:


> Uh Doc, I know you got some school housin an such so could ya spalin them words? Uh..wife an sanity?? I need to get out more..... seems like them 2 words makes up one of them Ox-ie Morons I hear tell of... :2thumb:


Well, believe it or not, Mrs. Doc is the one that keeps me most sane. Don't get me started there. I am constantly amazed that some 20 years ago she said "I will" and didn't run screaming before saying "I do."


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## mikemarlow (Feb 16, 2010)

*First gun(s)*

The first gun I'd recommend is a good pump shotgun. !2 guage. Either a Mossberg 500, or Remington 870. They're a fantastic home defense weapon. You can use them hunt - small game up to deer. They're priced right, and ammo is cheap. 
After that, it depends on what you want to use the gun for. The choices are almost limitless!


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## testhop (Dec 20, 2009)

Turtle said:


> I actually wasn't too impressed with the Ruger 10/22 . . . I fired a few at my dad's house the other day, and they jammed more than I expected, and he said that that has been his experience with them over the years. I much preferred the bolt-action 22lr that he had.


 the jam could be the ammo . or the clip. i have a 1022 and never a jam (knock on wood)
i bought 10000 rounds of winchester wildcat (2 cases ).on sale a few years back. at .77 cents for a box of 50 . and was lucky it shot so good .


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## testhop (Dec 20, 2009)

Concerned_ Citizen said:


> So im planning on purchasing some guns.....I currently do not own one nor have ever owned one......i have been around guns but the only "real" training i have ever received was the basic M16 training and 9 mil training i received in the AirForce.....not much.
> 
> So this is the idea i have....
> 
> ...


 i would get a 45 for the handgun (as a 9mm MAY expand but a 45 NEVER 
strinks.)
a good cal for the hunting rifle is the 308 ,7mm-08 o6 and my pick is the best cal of all time the 270
also you should learn to reload .
and practice practice then practice some more


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## dewey (Dec 24, 2009)

Turtle said:


> I actually wasn't too impressed with the Ruger 10/22 . . . I fired a few at my dad's house the other day, and they jammed more than I expected, and he said that that has been his experience with them over the years. I much preferred the bolt-action 22lr that he had.


Damn, Turtle

Why would you fire at your Dads house? I bet he's not too impressed with you either. Just kidding.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

dewey said:


> Damn, Turtle
> 
> Why would you fire at your Dads house? I bet he's not too impressed with you either. Just kidding.


LMAO . . . Perhaps I should have said, "While I was _at_ my Dad's house . . ." lol


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

testhop said:


> the jam could be the ammo . or the clip. i have a 1022 and never a jam (knock on wood)
> i bought 10000 rounds of winchester wildcat (2 cases ).on sale a few years back. at .77 cents for a box of 50 . and was lucky it shot so good .


Certain types of ammo cause my 10/22 to jam.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I had a Mossberg (I think) or maybe it was made by Savage ...anyway, with some ammo it would chain fire. Usually just two shots. It happened so fast you just kind of scratched your head wondering what happened. I finaly figured it out. I think the action wasn't being blown back far enough to fully seat the sear and when the bolt slammed home it jarred the sear lose and fired a second shell.

I sold it.


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I had a Mossberg (I think) or maybe it was made by Savage ...anyway, with some ammo it would chain fire. Usually just two shots. It happened so fast you just kind of scratched your head wondering what happened. I finaly figured it out. I think the action wasn't being blown back far enough to fully seat the sear and when the bolt slammed home it jarred the sear lose and fired a second shell.
> 
> I sold it.


That will cause a fella to wet himself. I've had breach loading shotguns slam fire while shooting trap before.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I know some of yawl believe there is no difference in the bulk 22 ammo as opposed to the 100 pack such as CCI, there is!! I can't explain it but it starts with the priming compound, a lot of the rounds won't go off when hit, that's a fact, yet if you turn them around a bit and hit a new place they do...WHY? I say it's because to sell cheaper bulk ammo thay had to lower quality, as well as little things like how much powder, and yes I know a tiny granule of powder isn't much, but multiply that by millions of granules and it's now adding up to some big bucks.

Here's an example of Big Business minds, I worked for WM for a while and the first thing I saw that had to do with saving a penny here and a penny there was the time clock...

I had never heard of "clicks"... maybe it's been around forever but I was self employed for 20 odd years before this time period...

For those like me... On the WM time clock they don't use seconds, they use "Clicks" there are 100 clicks in one minute, so instead of just rounding to the nearest minute or to the nearest second, they round to the click... the savings between 15 seconds or 25 clicks in the same time span seem like nothing, but add them by oh say... 1,000,000 people clocking in and out 4 times a day.... the savings of the company in a few clicks adds up to several million bucks in a year..

I've seen WM stop selling some things that their customers really liked for a lessor product because of a savings of a couple of cents in purchase price from the Mfgr to WM... regardless of what the customers want...

It's a small thing but to me it's not small at all, big business will cut quality in a heart beat to save those "clicks" on a world wide scale and damn the public who buys their products..

As to the lowly ol 10-22, I never had a misfire in mine until I started buying bulk pack ammo at WM, and in fact the first place I ever saw bulk pack was at WM, then the rest of the world caught on and the rest is ...a history of misfires...

If your storing SHTF ammo to be used as defense ammo for some family members, please spend the money and stock pile at least a few thousand CCI minimags...you will not regret it...

:soapboxzipper:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I've had pretty good luck with Remington ammo in bulk. I don't buy it for defensive purposes so I don't mind an occassional misfire. The problem I have with CCI is that their ammo does not have the same point of impact as the Remington, Winchester, and other ammo I had on hand to shoot. I took them all out to compare one day and the regular CCI 22's had good groups but were about an inch off at 50 yards. My rifle didn't like CCI Stingers at all. Very poor groups (3-4 inch spread) and they shot about six inches low and left compared to all of the other ammo. 

I don't have the money to spend on premium ammo for my 22's. I would rather shoot more of the cheaper stuff and put up with the occassional misfire. For defensive loads I use the big guns!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I have mostly _Federal_ in bulk packs and have had only 1 misfire after 1000's of rounds.


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## MasterSergeantUSAF (Mar 16, 2010)

Keep in mind that ammo is very HEAVY. The larger the caliber, the more it weighs. Consider that fact for storage and bug out bags. I have an assortment of .22, .223, .30-30, .308, .45, 9mm, and 12 guage....I keep matched caches of them in 9 different locations so that if any one supply is lost, looted or seized I still have 8 others.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

MasterSergeantUSAF said:


> Keep in mind that ammo is very HEAVY.


That's part of the reason I like .22. 1000 rounds is easy to go mobile with.



MasterSergeantUSAF said:


> I keep matched caches of them in 9 different locations so that if any one supply is lost, looted or seized I still have 8 others.


WOW! And I thought I was being sneaky with 2 different locations. :surrender:


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## DocWard (Nov 10, 2008)

Wow. I need to up my game!


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I've had pretty good luck with Remington ammo in bulk. I don't buy it for defensive purposes so I don't mind an occassional misfire. The problem I have with CCI is that their ammo does not have the same point of impact as the Remington, Winchester, and other ammo I had on hand to shoot. I took them all out to compare one day and the regular CCI 22's had good groups but were about an inch off at 50 yards. My rifle didn't like CCI Stingers at all. Very poor groups (3-4 inch spread) and they shot about six inches low and left compared to all of the other ammo.
> 
> I don't have the money to spend on premium ammo for my 22's. I would rather shoot more of the cheaper stuff and put up with the occassional misfire. For defensive loads I use the big guns!


Yor right about the Stingers, great for blowing up gophers at close range but after about 30+ yds they just wouldn't shoot for me in my 10-22, never tried them in anything else..the CCI minimags are hotter and you can expect the POI to be off...and I agree, the misfires don't matter with cheap ammo..and as a rule I just eject them and keep on shooting, the place I see the most FTF is with my heavy BBL Ruger pistol... sometimes it just click, click... frustrating to say the least,

one thing I have noticed, I gave my nephew a bolt action 22 for Christmas and it has yet to miss fire, maybe it has something to do with shooting auto loaders?????

But I'll keep buying them as long as they are cheap... great practice ammo


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