# Gold In Over Bought Condition - Possible Correction To Come



## Canadian

Gold analysts indicate that gold is currently over sold and may be due for a correction. The historical top for gold is about $1,000.00 U.S. per ounce. For the past few weeks market action has been bouncing off the resistance at the $1,000 barrier. 

Many analysts believe that in order for gold to proceed to the next level there must be a correction (that follows the patter that took place in 2006) downwards in price. 

However, in our crazy economic times there is still wild uncertainty about what will happen next. Historically, gold should correct downwards. If this happens it will likely be the "last good time to buy" before gold takes a permanent residence in the $1,000 plus per once price category. 

Next peak of market resistance is predicted at $1,300.00 per ounce U.S.

If the price dips it would be a great time to jump in and buy any gold that is available.


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## The_Blob

I think the key words are 'that is available' ^_^

personally, I still would rather invest my money in assets that actually DO something, such as property, vehicles, equipment, etc etc...

the purpose of getting the gold is to eventually use it to BUY something, so why not just buy 'something'...


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## Canadian

You can buy something later after you've sold your gold. Those that bought at $750 an once have made $250.00 just by sitting around. All the other somethings you can buy right now are going down in value. 

Vehicles always drop as soon as you drive them off the lot. They'll be a lot cheaper when the big three file for bankruptcy. Property is dropping. In my area values have dropped by 30% and continue to fall. Equipment is depreciating too. It's a big sell off because factories and local businesses are shutting down. All the while gold is rising. 

Buy gold. Wait. Get more "something" for your money. The more gold does up the more everything else goes down. Besides I don't need anything right now. I'm perfectly happy to wait. All the things that currently "do something" are a money losing proposition. If you've already got property and a vehicle you might as well stay invested. 

It's buy low sell high not buy, buy, buy, buy.... That's what causes the problem.


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## The_Blob

I guess my thought is that buy actually putting money into the community (granted EVERYBODY would have to do it) instead of sitting & hoping for things to actually get WORSE (which is EXACTLY what you're doing by buying gold, don't sugar-coat it) perhaps the downward spipral could be stopped... but then again, that whole capitalism thing only 'appeared' to work for 30 years (since before I was even born!)...


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## Canadian

The out of pocket spending by individuals can't and never will be able to offset the trillions of dollars of debt being generated by the U.S. government. Currently the individual share of debt per American is $75,000.00 for every citizen. This includes children and retired folks. Most people don't have a pre tax income that comes anywhere close to that. This is before any bailouts. 

It is mathematically impossible to spend our way out of the current economic situation. 

It would be like if everyone in New Orleans grabbed a bucket and tried to hold back the flood one armful at a time. Impossible. 

Do you honestly want to buy a house, car, et. knowing that in six months it will be worth far less than you paid for it? That goes against every natural instinct a person had. Besides I don't need to buy anything right now. The economic collapse was caused by people buying all kinds of stuff they don't need. 

You can't cure an alcoholic by giving him more booze.


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## Canadian

Gold has dropped from $1,000 to $967 an ounce U.S. in the past few days. If it drops below $850 it may be a good opportunity to buy. I doubt we'll see a decline to the $700's.


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## The_Blob

Canadian said:


> Do you honestly want to buy a house, car, et. knowing that in six months it will be worth far less than you paid for it?


to WHO?... to you? to me? to some economic 'guru' that says so?

the value of MY possessions to me is FAR more than the price tag attached to them... 

Do you know where the bank gets the $160,000 for your mortgage? It's very simple. Someone walks over to a computer and types 160,000 beside your name. With only $27.93 of cash reserves for every $10,000 of assets (as of June 2007) the bank has just created the remaining $159,553 of that interest-earning money out of thin air. When, after 30 years of hard work, you pay off your mortgage, the $159,553 vanishes back into thin air. Not so the interest however. It vanishes into the banker's pocket. Chartered (i.e. privately owned) banks have created about 93 percent of our total money supply ($11.3 trillion as of Sept 2005) in exactly this way. But the cash reserves in their vaults amount to only a paltry $791 billion. (less than $32 billion of cash circulates in public hands). This is called fractional reserve banking, and it's the greatest scam of all time because it creates debt for no reason other than to enrich the banking class. Its long term effect - as becomes clearer every day - is to steadily suck wealth out of the community and into the hands of a few people, a fact that bankers and most politicians stubbornly refuse to admit. Charging interest on money created out of nothing is, in the main, unjust and immoral, and Plato, Aristotle, Cicero, the Bible (Deuteronomy 23:19), the Koran (2:275-278), the Catholic Church, many codes of law and most writers on morals have condemned it for more than two thousand years. The historical name for this evil is usury. Nevertheless bankers enjoy peace of mind because they know that the public thinks they merely lend out the savings of their depositors. In fact, banks create more than 95 percent of all deposits, for when a bank creates a loan it simultaneously creates a deposit. What banks do to justify the accusation of being economic parasites is to lend out interest-bearing money of their own creation using a very thin sliver of legal tender (cash) to back it up.
Unfortunately, there's never been a reform of the banking system while the banks were in the driver's seat. They must first be rendered helpless by an economic collapse. Now that it just might be here two facts should be etched in our minds:

1) a government can lend interest-free money into existence by borrowing from its own bank, The Fed, - unfortunately The Fed has become a puppet of the financial elite, despite its mandate to serve the interests of all Americans ,or... it can borrow interest-bearing money into existence by borrowing from privately owned banks.

2) a government that borrows with interest from private banks, when it can create its own interest-free money, is a government of idiots or thieves.

Unfortunately, people find it easier to believe a lie they've heard a hundred times before than to believe a truth it's hearing for the first time. Maybe the words of Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs" 
will stop any scepticism you may feel when I say that the chartered banks, in collusion with The Fed and with the complicity of the government, are riding on the backs of the citizens of this country.

The following youtube video(s) are much more eloquent than I could ever be on the subject.






P.S. There are 5 videos


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## TechAdmin

I've been really leery of buying Gold. I feel it's probably at the high end right now and once the fear subsides gold will go down and I can buy it cheaper.


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## The_Blob

Dean said:


> I've been really leery of buying Gold. I feel it's probably at the high end right now and once the fear subsides gold will go down and I can buy it cheaper.


I think that was Canadian's original thoughts on the matter ...


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## Canadian

Gold is currently at $948 and dropping today. Looks like the correction is on. Just have to figure out when to jump back in and buy. If it drops to the mid $800's I'd watch the action closely. It'll start to spike back up very quickly once the profit taking by holders has been completed.


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## The_Blob

according to the charts it looks like it drops down to about 70%-75% of the 'false ceiling' then starts going up again


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## Magus

Both it and the current"recovery"of the markets are being artificially produced,I calculate it will drop to 800-750 an ounce then without warning,the market will bottom out and gold will go through the roof!I give it three weeks to a month.


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## TechAdmin

I had a dream last night that Gold was 8000 an ounce. Hope it was just a dream and not a vision


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## Canadian

I'd say a drop below $800 is highly unlikely. In the event that this did happen I'd start buying as soon as it got below $800 and continue to buy until the price started to rebound. It hit a low in the $930 dollar range the other day for a few minutes.

Anyone doing profit taking at this point is time has to be pretty ballsy. The majority of people with gold will hold no matter what. The sell off will be limited in nature with only a moderate percentage of the total gold in play being traded. 

Anyway, if it goes into the $700's I'm recommending a buy.


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## Canadian

I got an investor email today predicting $3,500 an ounce gold by this time next year. Sounds overly optimistic to me. However, all voices seem to be indicating prices will travel in the same direction.


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## The_Blob

Canadian said:


> I got an investor email today predicting $3,500 an ounce gold by this time next year. Sounds overly optimistic to me. However, all voices seem to be indicating prices will travel in the same direction.


well... it was supposed to be that NOW according to the 'buy gold' e-mails I have dated 08/03/2007


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## Canadian

Blob - It appears that you and I subscribe to different investor services.


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## Canadian

Gold is at $934.00 an ounce today and dropping. If it goes into the $800's it could be a good opportunity to buy.


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## Expeditioner

All the precious metals are dropping........I suspect this drop will be short-lived.


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## TechAdmin

Won't Gold just continue to decline in a Worldwide recession?


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## Expeditioner

Dean said:


> Won't Gold just continue to decline in a Worldwide recession?[/QUOTE
> 
> I do not remember who said the following, but gold has (throughout history) been something that had trade value. Unlike silver, palladium and platinum; gold is not utilized very heavily in manufacturing.
> 
> "The value of gold is that it is an instrument of value where no other one is. It is not a 'promise' to pay the bearer', which currencies are, but an asset that can be treated with value in the darkest days of war, even in enemy territory."


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## Canadian

Gold will not decline. It will go up in value. I read a few more investor letters today that indicate that a broad market failure could lead to a crash in the precious metals market. The market would then of course rebound. Gold is flat at $925 today. Looks like it'll go down at least a little bit more. I hope it drops into the $800's so I can jump in before it upswings to $1,100.


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## set2survive

"Gold is money and nothing else." - J.P. Morgan


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## dukman

Dean said:


> Won't Gold just continue to decline in a Worldwide recession?


Nope... it will only fully decline once the recession/depression is waning.


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## endurance

I think most people don't get gold and where it belongs in your preparations. As Set says, Gold is money. It's universal. It doesn't matter what denomination it was issued in, it has a set value based on weight and purity, not of what a government says it is worth.

With that said, where does it belong in your prepping priorities? Pretty damn low. Gold is a tool to preserve wealth. Over time, it holds its buying power, where government issued money can be inflated by issuing more. However, you can't eat it, it's a large denomination currency, and you can't spend it at the local 7-11. If we go into a global depression or peak oil dramatically drives up the price of food it won't be a common or covetted barter item. For barter items, stick to things that are consumable and valued in sparse times. That would include alcohol, spices, fishing tackle, seeds, etc (there's an entire thread on barter somewhere recently). 

Silver may have some barter and trade value and is more likely to have a more useful place in common transactions because of its lower denomination. Gold is likely to be reserved for large purchases like land or expensive equipment. 

If you have already taken care of your food, water, land, shelter, power, seeds, and fuel needs with a good supply of barter materials and you still have $20k in your savings, then you might want to spend $5k and acquire a mix of gold and silver. Otherwise, you should focus on more important priorities.


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## Canadian

We have a large chunk of our money in gold and silver right now. We're converting the rest into gear. Since we don't have enough space to store lots of gear we need to hold the wealth somehow. 

Also holders of gold are optimists. We do believe that at some point there will be a recovery. When the times comes we can use our gold to scoop up things like real estate before the recovery happens. Then when things get better we become wealthier. 

I think it would be depressing to survive the disaster and then find yourself no better off than when the whole mess began. At least you'd be alive. I like the idea of coming out of it far ahead of where I used to be. The coming economic implosion is the greatest opportunity average people have had to advance their place in life.


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## Canadian

Gold dipped to $910 today then started a weak rally to $914. The rally looks like moderate resistance. Probably people trying to stave off the drop into the $800 dollar range. It'll be interesting to see how low it goes.


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## set2survive

Gold can be a barter item if you have the 1/10 & 1/20 Oz coins. If the dollar could be knocked off its throne and the dollar suddenly buys much less in real goods, then a seller might prefer a small coin instead of a wad of devalued dollars, especially if the dollar is losing strength.


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## endurance

Agreed with both of you (Canadian on the wealth preservation & Set on the small denominations). However, with regard to the 1/10 & 1/20th coins, the mark up over spot is substantially more than on full and half ounce. In general, you pay about $50 over spot with full ounce gold coins, but 1/10 ounce coins can be as much as $200 over spot per ounce. This may still be less than silver, however. The last silver I purchased was "only" $4 over spot for cull morgans. Given that the price of silver spot at the time was $10 and I paid $11.60 each (morgans are .77 oz.), that's roughly a 40% mark up. The gold on the otherhand works out to be only a 5-6% mark up per ounce or 20% for 1/10th oz. coins.

There really is no good way to get away from the premium in precious metals, especially in this market, but it's something worth considering in your purchases. The last seeds I bought were probably less than a dollar an ounce and will be worth their weight in gold (or silver, at least) in a few years, so pick your investments carefully.


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## dukman

I am surprised no gold jewelry maker has made chains like they did in the pirate days... 1 link is x grams of gold. I don't know how you would keep people from making fakes


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## Canadian

I guess pirate gold is out of fashion? I think conspicuous gold would be trouble unless you're a real badass. Like a pirate. Or a ninja.


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## Canadian

Gold dipped to $901 today before bouncing back. Next dip should be into the $800's. We'll see what the action is like. Everyone will be wondering when to jump in and buy.


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## Canadian

Boing! Gold rebounds to $930. The lowest dip was to $901. Looks like it's on it's way back up in a very enthusiastic way. The majority of the publications have declared the correction "over" and the sharpness of the rally has sent the message that prices are on the way back up again. I hoped for a drop into the $800's but hey, a $100 drop from peak still makes for a good profit.


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## Canadian

Gold dips to $893.00 U.S. I guess the investment gurus that predicted the correction was over were wrong. When the drop hits a low it'll be time to buy low.


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## endurance

Wall Street was silly today. Citigroup said they think they'll show a profit and it was off to the races. This is a full on bear market rally that spilled over into the gold market. 

If you're serious about acquiring gold, buy 1/5 to 1/10 what you want today. Wait a week and buy another 1/5 to 1/10th. Over the next two or three months, you'll get what you want without paying either an excessively high price or miss the bottom. There's no way to predict any of this, so just spread out your purchases a little and you should lower your average. Market timing isn't a science or an art; it's guess work.


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## set2survive

There is something obviously phoney about Citi claiming to have made a profit after receiving billions in bailout funds. It is not real profit and I doubt personally if the profits can continue without more billions in bailout funds. Still its enough to get the market going up, but can it last?


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## Canadian

Nope. It's all based on false confidence.


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## Kiwi Will

*Blob has got it VERY right.*

Good on you for spending the time to inform folks Blob.

My own view is that gold is great if you think that you need to keep the investment, development, making more and more money and such things way of life going. I feel sorry for such crazy folks. 
Ask the question where the value of gold is set? 
Who sets the value? 
Why is it only gold that is PROMOTED as an alternative INVESTMENT?

Come on you guys and ladies, it's controlled from "The City" (London) & my understanding is that it's only 3 banks that set it. The Bank of England being one. Do your own research. You'll find a lot of info when you ask the questions and some that will "knock the socks off you". You will learn about Common Law and Statute law and where that comes from but that's a whole different subject. 
Gold is just a another commodity and if it ain't controlled by thee, then you are being sucked in me ol' mate. And then you'll be spat out.
If you want to protect you your self, my view is to get out of their systems and control, live simply and form relationships in a community who have the skills you don't. It ain't easy to back out of what we know as normal and its sometimes initially really uncomfortable. Western man is brought up on "ownership" of things and greed is a dis-ease that we are incouraged to take up to be able to get that "thing" we are then recognised as being "successful". What a load of ol' cobbers! Gold is just another "thing". 
Im rambling on so...
be safe from the thieves and their agents and have a cracker day.


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## Canadian

Kiwi Will - The reality of the situation is that some of us do have a large amount of assets that need to be managed and protected. Even people who live in a "communal" fashion don't want to see the value of their communal possessions drop. Even the most isolated person has to connect to the outside world in an economic sense every now and then. 

If you want to get out of "their" system that's cool. I was raised in their system and I don't know how to do anything else. The money keeps flowing in and I have to do something with it. If I can hold the gold until "their" system collapses I can scoop up the pieces using the gold and buy a piece of the new system. A system built by people who know the value of saving vs spending. 

Instead of opting out - if we all bought some gold - we could all buy the system up piece by piece - and do whatever we want with it.

I'm waiting for that day.


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## set2survive

"Gold is just a another commodity and if it ain't controlled by thee..."

Well it is just another commodity and like all commodities it ain't controlled by me or thee. It has value, it will always have value and always has had value.
Of course nobody should put all their eggs in the golden basket, but if you can afford it, gold is a little insurance against currency devaluation and run away inflation, both of which are possible unless things improve soon.


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## Canadian

Gold is still erratic at $923 U.S. per ounce. I struck up a conversation with a person in line at the grocery store. Turns out he was in finance. He seemed oddly happy given the current market conditions. He said that due to being directly involved in the market through his job he managed to come out of the crash just even with where he was a few years ago.

I told him that three months before the crash I put everything into gold. He said he wished he'd done just that. Currently I'm enjoying my gold. In time I'll turn it into something else but for now it's just fine.


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## Viking

In all the centuries of use as an exhange for labor or goods gold never looses it's value. If it takes $1000 now to buy what used to cost $20 fifty years ago, one ounce of gold buys the same thing. The way that I came to understand it's worth is the story of early Roman times when a man would go into a clothing store of his time to buy a tunic, toga, sandles and belt and it took a one ounce gold coin. Today if you went into a fine mens store you could buy a fine suit, shirt, shoes and belt for one ounce of gold. Gold can be a great hedge against inflation and the present deflation will not last long when all the TARP II money hits the streets and more than likely there will be TARP III and IV and so on. Gold will also stand up to any new types of currency that may have to be instituted because of such a highly debased US dollar that won't pay off foreign debt.


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## Canadian

Gold plunges to $888 U.S. an ounce. Hey everyone - I'm hearing predictions that the gold drop will bottom out soon in the low $800's. At that point it should rally to a resistance point at about $950 an ounce. This is a very good time to get in on gold. They are saying this is a very "healthy" correction and is needed. If it drops below $850 I'm jumping in hard as I've been holding off for a while. If I can sell some at $950 that's $100 an ounce profit. 

Also there are warnings of a broad market "Smackdown" on the way. Markets have risen about 4% - 14% in the past week leading to a sense of false optimism and a drop in gold prices. Remember this is a depressions folks. Things are going to get worse. Stay on with gold and try to keep from dipping your toes back into the stock market. It's set to fall again real soon. The 14% gain will be gone in no time. 

The Dow adjusted for inflation has not nearly reached the lows it needs to before we can say we've hit a true bottom.


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## Viking

The article I've attached is one of my favorite sources of economic understanding, Darryl Robert Schoon. If you go to his website you can sign up for his free email newsletters.


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## endurance

Why wait? You can pick up 10 peso gold pieces on Apmex for $7.95 over melt on Apmex. Buy when the market is going down as you can afford it. There's no bell that rings at the bottom and it may never reach $800. If it bottoms at $815 then goes up $65 in a day, you may have missed the buying opportunity of a lifetime.

As for gold never losing value, I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. You could have bought it for $600 an ounce in 1979 and then have it be worth $250 an ounce in 2000. that's a pretty major loss if you needed to spend it in 2000. This may be a historic high and we're all a bunch of idiots as it collapse back to $400 an ounce next year. Never put all your eggs in one basket. If you keep enough cash reserves, you don't need to worry about having to sell at a bad time and if you put a little away at a time, you average out your risk.


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## Viking

Most all things go by cycles and the economy to a great extent shows ahead of time when to buy and when to sell to be profitable, In 1980 when gold peaked at just over $800 per oz. definately made a hugh profit for people that bought a few years before. The next great buy would be when it then bounced off the bottom, when it broke through the $300 level Feb.8,2002 it made a long but steady pull until it broke the $1000 level March 17, 2008. Since then the spot market has pretty much gone sideways which is good for those who do the day trading. As to those who are gold bugs, they hang onto what they have in physical gold as protection against the possibilities of a monitary breakdown and considering the rate at which the US dollar is being debased by physical and electronic printing a breakdown has a much greater possibility. The charted debt curve is a reverse "L" shape in less than one year. Just look at the $1+ trillion figures being put out and if you think about it it would be just like continually adding water to a bowl of soup, it still might smell like soup but it doesn't have any flavor or nourishment left. The thing that I found out in taking the step to invest in gold is the old bugabo of FEAR and fear often keeps people from advancing to higher and better positions in life.


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## Canadian

I've been keeping track of the government printing press which is being run 24/7 here in Canada as well. As long a deficit spending and the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq continue the gold basket will be the safest place in the world for my money.

Take a look at the diversification most people had before the crash. Most people had a mix of stocks, bonds, t-bills, and mutual funds thinking that their investments were diverse and therefore safe. The stock and bond markets themselves are one big basket that has a gaping hole it in right now. 

The thing people miss out on is that you can always change baskets at any time. Shouldn't you keep all your eggs in the best baskets?


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## Canadian

Boing! Gold spikes up again but why? Here's why. Taken from one of my investor newsletters:

After the dreary limbo of recent weeks we at last have something we can really get our teeth into. The Fed "came out of the closet" today by openly stating that it is going to be buying Treasuries by the bucketload, as distinct from buying them clandestinely. Since buying your own debt is akin to the occupant of a car whose wheel falls off leaning out and trying to hold it up by the axle, this statement is an admission of defeat. So - they are going to buy their own Treasuries - with what exactly? - with money they create explicitly for the purpose. Welcome to the era of hyperinflation and a collapsing dollar. At the time of writing the dollar is plunging like a lead balloon, its index dropping by a whopping 2.5% and gold and silver have spiked dramatically, more than reversing heavy losses early in the session. This is really dramatic action that is going to leave behind an enormous Reversal Day bull hammer on the charts, although, thus far, gold has not broken above the key $950 level.

The open announcement of buying treasuries with money fresh of the printing press confirmed fears of inflation and currency debasement. Thus the big spike in prices that counteract the "natural" correction that should have come. 

Gold currently at $947 U.S. an ounce.


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## endurance

Now that was my best market timing ever. Picked up some 10 pesos gold coins on Wednesday at $886.50 an ounce and before they even ship, they're worth $958 an ounce. Pure luck.

All it took was the infusion of $1 trillion in new money to further dilute the value of the dollar. 

It started a conversation with a coworker who's father is looking to sell some 10 and 20 peso gold pieces, too, which means buying at true spot rather than spot-plus and without the shipping and insurance. His dad actually picked up one of the 20 peso pieces about ten years ago at a flea market for $1 because the guy didn't have a clue it was real gold. What a score!


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## Canadian

Endurance - Now we're talking! Well done. Gold is erratic again at $950 and fluctuating wildly. Great move on the gold peso's. I've never seen a gold peso or any kind of peso for that matter.


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## Canadian

Wow what a swing from a low of $890 to $950 at the end of the business day today. Talk about volatile action on gold. The upswing from $890 was just a straight line all the way up with no breaks. It'll be interesting to see if the "natural" correction that was supposed to take place will still happen. 

Perhaps there will be another dip to the high $800's?


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## endurance

Canadian said:


> Endurance - Now we're talking! Well done. Gold is erratic again at $950 and fluctuating wildly. Great move on the gold peso's. I've never seen a gold peso or any kind of peso for that matter.


The market isn't being rational at all right now. The run up in the dow today was rediculous, but it might give me the opportunity to get out of a few stocks I've had to hold onto. I think there's a chance the dow will run over 8,000, maybe even 8,500 before the next bit of bad news and crashes right back down under 6,500. I think the drop won't be like the last few. The market is now comfortable taking the trip down below 7,000 and I could see a 700-1,000 point drop if the right bit of bad news came out at the wrong time.

What's surprising is that gold isn't holding on to its gains. The federal reserve just announced they're essentially printing another trillion dollars mostly to buy US Treasuries last week. Since then the Treasury department has announced TARP II, buying up over $1 trillion in bad debt, which means more federal debt, which means printing more dollars, which means more devaluation to the dollar, but gold fell today. Go figure.

To compound the insanity in the markets, GE just lost its Aaa rating today, but went up almost 10%. Bizarre.

In any case, regarding the Mexican Pesos, it looks like Apmex is out of the 10 and 20 peso gold coins, but they do still have 2, 2.5 & 5 peso coins for $7.95 over melt/spot. Apmex Pesos The nice thing about the Pesos is that it makes small denomination gold coins available for under $60.


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## Canadian

Gold is down to $919.00 U.S. today. I think part of the reason why gold pricing is wild - besides the total economic mess - is the amount of gold being held that isn't being circulated. This leaves only a few sources with large amounts of gold to shift around. These are strange days. I think the market is confused.


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## Paronoid1

I read an article a few days ago that talked about the decline of the dollar and the relation to gold. Keep in mind that during the Depression, the dollar was devalued by changing the peg of $20 an ounce for gold to $35 and ounce.

Today, with the monetary base as it is, if we pegged to gold, it would set the price of gold to $6,948 

Obviously, we won't be pegging to gold right now. The point of the article is that with the rapidly increasing monetary base, we are in big danger of hyperinflation (which IMO will happen). Imagine if China and other countries dump their holding of US Treasuries now as well, as they have been hinting...

Here is the link:
http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1375484


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## Canadian

The statement that the U.S. will be buying their own treasuries with freshly printed money is what spiked gold about a week ago. The Chinese are holding all the cards and pulling all the strings. Dance puppets dance!


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## endurance

I just figured out why the price of gold has been so low. The world banks have been selling their gold to keep their capitalization within industry regulations. This article talks about how several banks have agreed to reduce sales, so the price may be allowed to climb. 
Central banks sell less gold, providing potential price support - MarketWatch


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## Canadian

Gold up to $929 and somewhat stable today. Watching the U.S. price can be deceptive. I always check a chart of value vs. the Euro to get some perspective. Often on days where gold looks like a loser in the U.S. it actually comes out ahead on the Euro.


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## Canadian

"The Bernanke Fed announced a "stunning" plan to save the world from depression on Wednesday.

The numbers were hard to follow, but they were big:

$300 billion, was the number Bloomberg reported

$1 trillion, said the New York Times..

$1.2 trillion, countered the Washington Post.

It turned out that all these numbers were correct. The Fed was going to buy $300 billion of U.S. Treasury bonds...and more of other securities - notably bonds from Fannie and Freddie.

"Quantitative easing," the papers called it."

Well the U.S. government is now committed and cannot change directions. There were more predictions of $2,000 an ounce gold. The threat of adding too much inflation is very real. No world government has ever pulled it off. The only two cases that come close in the 20th century are post WW1 Germany and Argentina in the 1980's both driven to do so by a lack of other measures. 

Many traders agree that the feds are getting ready to "burn the house down."


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## TechAdmin

Anyone buying physical gold? Seems like the at-store price for coins is much more than spot right now.


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## Canadian

I've been buying a little. I get my bullion from the Royal Bank branch a few blocks from here. No sales tax on Bullion and no numistic value either. Least expensive way to go in Canada other than a private sale - and nobody I know is selling.


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## Canadian

Taken from an investor news letter

"If someone told you that the the broad stockmarket will double over the next 2 years you might reply "Great - I can recoup my huge losses!" Trouble is, if you sell for your stocks for twice their current price in 2 year's time and go into town to spend the proceeds you are likely to find that your dollars will only buy a quarter as much as they would today, or less. 

Doesn't sound so great now, does it? Forget the Austrian School of Economics - welcome instead to the new era of the "Zimbabwean School of Economics" which has been field tested and proven in the country which inspired its name. 

Proper application of the schools' precepts will ensure that there is always enough money for everything - problem with a budget deficit? - no problem, just create the money and pay it off, problem with insufficient demand for Treasuries? - no problem, just create the money and buy them, problem with interbank liquidity? - no problem, just pump money into the banks until they have so much they are throwing it out of their tall buildings by the binload, problem with restive workers pay demands? - no problem, just create the money and pay them more, problem with not being able to pay the CEOs of bankrupt companies their accustomed huge bonuses? - no problem, just create the money and pay them their bonuses, and why not double them? 

So we see that there really is no excuse for a liquidity shortfall at all - the problem until now is clearly that those responsible for creating the money have been too conservative, too timid, they have not been bold and imaginative enough - perhaps this is because they have not fully realized the power at their disposal, not fully appreciated that without the restraint of a gold standard, the sky is indeed the limit - why should anyone who wants anything go without? - especially if they are big and powerful and have intimate connections with influencial figures in the government."

How did the U.S. ever end up using the same economic tactics as an uneducated third world dictator? Is this the best the U.S. government can come up with for a rescue plan?


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## Canadian

Gold currently bouncing between $920 and $940.


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## Canadian

Taken from another investor letter:

"Last week's plunge in the dollar was "a shot across the bows" that gave dire warning to those who understand its implications of what is to come. The dollar is up this morning, possibly due to media hype surrounding what Geithner has been saying etc. Use these late rallies as your last chance to get out of dollar denominated assets and buy gold and silver. The collapse of the dollar and the Treasury market is getting closer by the day now. Geithner and others can make all the hollow and vacuous statements they like about how they are determined to maintain dollar dominance, but the truth is that like all debtors they are impotent - it will be America's creditors and investors who decide the fate of the dollar and the Treasury market and thus the country, not the front men in Washington."

Well folks what do you think? Will the world market soon select a new "reserve currency" to replace the U.S. dollar? My bet would be on the Euro. 

Gold closes down at $922 today.


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## Lucy

I have heard rumors of us having an Amero. For US, Canada, and Mexico. 
Me, I am keeping any gold I have.


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## Canadian

At this point there's no way the government of Canada would buy into such a bad currency situation with the United States.


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## set2survive

I don't think the Euro will be the reserve currency, it hasn't been very strong lately either. I think the Chinese, Russians and Arabs will establish a new currency which will compete with the dollar for a awhile, and then probably become dominate. If the US government chose a different course, cutting spending to only essential things and laid off the borrowing, the the dollar might be saved. But they are going pedal to the metal in the opposite direction. The G20 will be interesting and I bet the fur will fly.


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## Canadian

Gold takes a dive. Currently at $898.00 U.S. and ounce. If this follows the past few dips there will be a sharp jump back up to previous values. It'll be interesting to see how much resistane the drop takes at sub $900 numbers. I'm guessing it'll bounce around in the high $890's and them bolt back up to $920.


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## set2survive

The G20 was all smiles for the cameras but I don't think anything of substance was accomplished. Alot of hot air and pledges and promises. I wouldn't fret about gold dipping a little bit, it's probably the only thing that can be counted on to have any lasting value thru what promises to be more economic turmoil to come. The Russians and Chinese are still talking about a new currency, the French and Germans are not fully on board with more stimulus spending, nothing has really changed for the better.


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## Paronoid1

I have read that as part of the G20, it was discussed that countries would release (sell) some 400 tonnes of gold to help finance aid to developing countries. I found the link below on a quick search, but I have also seen other statements which I can't find now 

This will make for a nice buying opportunity if they do 

Mineweb - GOLD NEWS - IMF gold sales expected to be on G20 agenda

A link from MarketWatch:
Market Watch

There are conflicting reports on this IMF gold sale, though it does appear in the summary report from the G20


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## Canadian

If they do it'll also drop the price of gold as the supply has instantly increased. It would be an excellent time to buy.


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## Canadian

Gold is down to $879.00 U.S. an ounce and is down vs. the Euro as well. This is the lowest price since late January 2009.


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## Paronoid1

Silver has been dropping along with gold. Great buying opportunities for both.

IMO, massive/hyper inflation is coming on the dollar, these drops in gold & silver could be the last chance to protect wealth.


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## Canadian

Gold today at $870 American having hit the high $860's just a little while ago. A great time to buy. I'd say silver is a great bet right now. It'll be neat to see how sharp the rally is after the buying cycle is complete.


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## Canadian

Gold climbing to $884.00 U.S and ounce. Perhaps the buying action is near complete.


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## Canadian

Today it looks like gold is trying to break out to over $900.00 U.S. an ounce.


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## sailaway

I am 49, and when ever I have seen any thing advertised on TV the way gold is today, it is time to sell, a correction is on it's way. I will never buy at the absolute bottom or sell at the absolute high, but will make mine inbetween.


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## Canadian

Most people are lucky to make it in between. Nobody really knows where the top or bottom is until after it happens. Today $867.00 U.S. an ounce. Low for the last year or so. With a low of about $750 and a top of $1,000 this would be the middle.


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## dukman

Dean said:


> Anyone buying physical gold? Seems like the at-store price for coins is much more than spot right now.


I am not buying gold... true that I don't have the money to, but even if I did I am not sold on it as an investment. While it may just sit there, it, like stocks, is and always has been, a gamble.


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## endurance

dukman, whilte it's true that it's like any investment and has its risks, unlike stocks, gold can't go bankrupt like companies you invest in can. Banks can collapse and while right now the FDIC is there to bail them out, the FDIC only has $50 billion in reserve capital. Sure, the federal government would come rushing in with taxpayer dollars to cover any shortfall if it were only one or two banks, but if a bank like Citi fails, that's $2 trillion worth of debts to cover. Same goes for Bank of America, JP Morgan Chase and the other heavy hitters. They can't bail out everyone, well, actually, they can and they may try, but it's only with printing more money or increasing the total US public debt. Both are contributers to high inflation.

Gold isn't an investment to go all in on. The price fluxuates. It's not like a savings account. You should have savings. You should have cash on hand. You should have food stored. You should have a way to purify water. And in my opinion, you should always have some silver and gold just in case the dollar collapses. It's just a fundimental safety net that means you will never go hungry.

The other thing about gold is it gives you portable compact currency accepted anywhere in the world. If something catastrophic occurs that makes you an international refugee, there is no other commodity that you could toss in your pocket and assure that no matter where you ended up in the world, you could establish yourself again. Say the Yellowstone supervolcano began to erupt and it was clear that life in the northern hemishere was not going to be sustainable for the next 20-30 years. I'm grabbing my travel bag, my gold, my cash, and heading for the airport. Whatever flights are available that lie south of the equator are good enough for the immediate future and I'm outta here. Now it may be that my dollars will be accepted anywhere in the world, but if the foreign banks figure out that the US GDP is going to be zero next year and the government is going to default on their loans, are you sure? Gold is a unique insurance that should become a part of your preps after you have 3-6 months food cached, 3 months savings in the bank, and have your energy needs covered for the next 3-6 months. It shouldn't replace any of those things, it's just the next thing to work towards.

As for the price, the suggestion that the IMF was going to sell gold was what brought down prices, but to date, I don't believe they've started selling. If they do, it will be interesting to see how slowly they feed it into the market. If they dump it on the market over a period of weeks or months, you're going to see a very sudden drop with a very rapid recovery. If they sell 1,000 pounds a week for a year or two, that will hardly impact prices at all.


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## Canadian

It looks like the broad market is headed for a small peak and then another big fall. Too many people have bought into the idea that the bailouts will work and it has pumped up the market a little. 

This is a dangerous time to hold any stocks including gold stocks. My investor news letters have recommended getting out of all gold stocks now. The last broad market fall sent gold stocks down in value. 

People are still buying and holding "mutual finds" that are composed of many stocks including gold stocks. When they panic and sell the funds ALL of the stocks in the fund are dumped including the gold stocks which drives the value of all golds stocks down.

As long as people do the "zombie investing" thing of following the old "long term" methods of investing we're looking at wide fluctuations in gold stocks tied to broad market activity.

As for the actual value of physical gold. Who knows what this will do. I'm hoping for an uptick in response to a broad market fall.


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## Canadian

Gold heading back up to $900 U.S. an ounce.


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## Canadian

Today gold is over $900 on ounce again.


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## sailaway

*Television Gold Ads*

In the past when ever I have seen gold or any other comodity or investment vehicle advertised on tv the way gold is today, it is time to think about selling, the money has already been made. The investment cycle has matured.


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## Canadian

Most of those ad's are not to buy gold. They are to have you send them your gold so they can melt it down and re sell it. They give you a little bit of money and then they hold and sell based upon market conditions. We're nowhere near the top for gold. The bailouts keep on coming and the wars are still going strong. 

The Iraq war alone costs over $400 million dollars a day. That money is all being printed by the U.S. government and that leads to inflation. Inflation leads to an increase in the value of gold. This is actually all leading to hyperinflation and currency collapse. 

As long as the U.S. keeps the wars and bailouts going gold will continue to increase in value.


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## dukman

sailaway said:


> In the past when ever I have seen gold or any other comodity or investment vehicle advertised on tv the way gold is today, it is time to think about selling, the money has already been made. The investment cycle has matured.


Those ads for gold are SCAMS. Most of the suckers that send in their gold have no idea how much it is worth, and take the check. The check is usually for less than 15% of the gold's melt value. If the items are still good, they resell it for over the melt value. If you deny their first offer, they will offer you about 3x more than the first offer, still way less than melt value.


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## Canadian

Dukman - Well said. Once they get the check they can buy some crap on QVC.


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## endurance

I got a nice deal today with a coworker. His dad picked up this gawdy gold chain (you know the kind, as thick as 550 cord of braided gold chain) with a 20 peso gold piece on it at a garage sale for $20 about five years ago. Turns out it was a real 20 peso piece which is .48 oz of pure gold. I offered him face value for the coin and he threw in the chain for free. He thought he was making out like a bandit, getting $431 for it and I was happy to pay actual spot value rather than the typical $20-50/oz. mark up over spot. Definitely a win-win deal for both of us.

I think there's going to continue to be some downward pressure on gold prices keeping it under $950 for a while (how long of a while is anybody's guess). It's a matter of numerous large banks and the IMF selling gold reserves in order to keep their books in the black and/or to raise capital. I'm continuing to take advantage of good buying opportunities when I find them. 

That said, I should emphesize to any newbies that paying off debts and basic preps come first, then building savings, then long term preps, and only then should you look into precious metals. You can't eat gold, but after 20 years of prepping, I'm very comfortable with my preps and now just rotate what I have, work on my garden, reduce my long-term grid dependency, and occasionally pick up some precious metals when my cards are all paid off and I've put away something in my savings already each month. Don't lose your focus by becoming enthralled by the shiny things in life. There's plenty of people with an AK-47 under the bed but no food in the pantry. Just look at Africa or Afghanistan.


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## Canadian

Score! Nice one on the Peso. Since I'm nowhere near Mexico I've never even seen a gold Peso. However, it sounds like quite a few are floating around where you're at. It seems like there is a lot of pressure keeping the price of gold down. 

I agree that getting rid of debt is the first step. After that comes food, water shelter etc. Then a big pile of ammo and some guns. Gold really is the last step. Gold is what will allow you to attain new wealth when the recovery starts. I think you only need to invest in gold if you're an optimist.


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## sailaway

Seven years ago I bought Glamis at $1.87/share, I sold out five years ago at just under $17.00/ share. I made a killing, and all the old timers at the coffee shop I went to every morning ranted and raved about how well their IRA's were doing, and why did I waste my money on gold. They were also invested in Enron at the time. I got the last laugh. I took my winnings and layed out cash for a Mazak Machining Center which I still have. (I use a credit card to buy the raw materials for the machine which gives me gift certificates for free guns or free building materials at Home Depot. I always pay the balance at the ed of the month.) Lately times have been slow, but I am not in debt with it. I can run circles around the big guys. My point is that when people advertise buying and selling gold on tv, the cycle has peaked. It is time to go and do something completely different with your winnings. Lately I have taken a beating with the machine, but it doesn't cost me anything it is paid for. The steel industry is way down with the global economy. I also was told I should learn a foreign language as we are a global economy, I decided on G Code so I could run the machine. I have also networked and met alot of interesting people with it. 
People point out how much more I could have made if I didn't sell the Glamis, but you have to remember, the bulls make money, the bears make money and the pigs get slaughtered. Everything goes through a cycle, Antiques, realestate, farm land, guns and other commodities. I feel that gold has hit the top of its cycle due to the fact that I see more and more ads for it on TV. Over the past decades when I have seen gold advertised the way it is now, it has gone down. Take your winnings and use them to do something that will enhance your ability to survive more comfortably and possiblely enable you to interact with others.


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## Canadian

My latest investment news letters tell me that gold will probably be subject to some profit taking in May of this year so we could be looking at a good opportunity to buy again. I don't know if we'll se a dip back down to $750 but if it happens I'll jump in for sure before it rides back up to the 900's. 

To say things go in a cycle is cool but we're in a time period that defies cyclical activity. The U.S. dollar which is the default reserve currency for the entire planet is constantly being devalued by the U.S. government. We're looking at the possibility of a complete failure of world currencies. Gold and silver are pretty good bets lately. 

If you're looking for something to invest in other than gold check out uranium. I've talked a little bit about it in other posts. I probably won't invest in it as it involves buying "paper" and I don't believe in owning anything I can't physically touch. For those of you who want to invest uranium has incredible potential.


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## endurance

I can attest that uranium mines have taken a killing. The one I own is down something on the order of 75% since I bought last summer (and it was already down over 75% at the time). To me, the next commodity to pop, if and when the economy heats up is coal. We're running out of cheap oil in the world and the Germans were making diesel from coal over 60 years ago, so the technology exists, the US has a lot of it, and the alternatives at this point are a joke (i.e. corn ethanol & electric cars (which use coal for electricity)).

I think we're in the eye of the storm. When the other eye wall passes is anybody's guess, but as you mentions, Canadian, the US debt and devaluation of the dollar will ultimately screw the global economy far worse than we've seen thus far. It might be later this year, but I think we're in for more of a rebound and rally first, followed by a spike in oil and food prices as demand picks up again, which will ultimately crash things even harder in 2-3 years. I hate to say it, but the 2012ers might just be right that something big will happen then, but I don't buy it that it's going to be the end of the world, just TEOTWAWKI.


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## Canadian

I'm not so sure about coal. With all the environmental pressure against nuclear there will be even more against coal. Nuclear can supply more energy than coal. I can see the U.S. maintaining coal as a reserve energy source. 

The only way coal will spike is if the U.S. keeps dragging their feet on their own reactor programs. So far the rest of the world is building lots of reactors and the U.S. only has a few on the go. If this situation does not change coal could see an uptick.

I'm also not sure how much coal is left but I'm lead to believe that it's a lot. I think we'd have to use a lot of it up before we see a serious jump in the price of coal.


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## Canadian

Serious broad market crash on the way lead by a dollar and bond market collapse. Many financial experts believe that the crash will come in two waves based upon de leveraging of the U.S. toxic assets that are still being allowed to sat in the financial system. 

During this time gold will take a beating along with everything else. As usual there is no prediction of when this next crash will take place. It can be said with certainty that the U.S. dollar and the bond markets will be the worst places to have your money invested.


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## Canadian

American trade reaches a new low. For the past 80 years Brazil has relied upon the U.S. to buy the vast majority of their exports. Now China is buying Brazil's exports shutting the U.S. out as the primer importer. 

What is the key export? Iron ore which China has been buying at an incredible rate since 2006. Just another sign of the continuing collapse of the U.S. economy. What are the Chinese building with all that iron ore?

This has led to what is now called the "Brazil Bounce." Their markets have recovered to the point that they are almost at a break even point with their levels before the first broad market crash. One of the only world economies to accomplish this feat. Impressive.


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## Canadian

Gold trending up at $920 U.S. an ounce.


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## endurance

Canadian said:


> I'm not so sure about coal. With all the environmental pressure against nuclear there will be even more against coal. Nuclear can supply more energy than coal. I can see the U.S. maintaining coal as a reserve energy source.
> 
> The only way coal will spike is if the U.S. keeps dragging their feet on their own reactor programs. So far the rest of the world is building lots of reactors and the U.S. only has a few on the go. If this situation does not change coal could see an uptick.
> 
> I'm also not sure how much coal is left but I'm lead to believe that it's a lot. I think we'd have to use a lot of it up before we see a serious jump in the price of coal.


The price of coal is down dramatically right now because demand is down due to the lagging economy, that's why it's a value. Any nuclear plant would take 5-6 years to build at the very minimum, more realistically 7-10 years. Getting enough nukes in place to actually surpass new demand for power enough to start turning off coal plants would be 15-20 years minimum. Wind can do a lot of things, but it can't run the existing grid. On days without wind you have to get power from somewhere, so it's either coal or natural gas.

We're at or near global peak oil production. The oil that is being produced now averages more than $40/barrel to extract. Demand in the most populous nations on earth is growing exponentially, specifically India and China. China's demand for oil is likely to surpass US demand in the next five years. Their current demand for coal is voracious.

With that as the background, in ten years, when oil is over $150/barrel, how are we going to power our cars? Maybe 10% of the population will have made the move to electric by then, assuming the technology makes a great deal of progress by then. Maybe natural gas? Possible, but current production in the US is barely enough to keep up with demand without increasing the demand with transportation. Coal is the only real solution. The Germans were converting it into aviation fuel and diesel during WWII and it's the only alternative transportation fuel source technology that we have today in enough quantity to actually make a difference. There will be tremendous resistance because it will dump many times the CO2 into the atmosphere than burning oil does, but when your alternative is having the wheels of the global economy come off and go back to a world made by hand, it'll happen.

There just aren't any alternatives if you like transportation. Something's gotta make the wheels go 'round.


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## Canadian

If you got some good coal stock picks post em up.


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## Canadian

Gold still creeping up to over $930 U.S. an ounce.


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## Canadian

Uranium stocks continue to rise. My investor news letters have all dumped oil in anticipation of the broad market making more downward progress. All the talk these days is about de-leveraging. This is basically the movement of all those still existing toxic assets that are being shuffled around.

We're looking at hyperinflation or super stagflation both of which are really bad news. It looks like gold is being viewed as the only safe haven.

With overall prices on oil set to fall mining stocks are doing well. Mining companies rely heavily on oil for their operations. This is good news for those holding uranium and gold mining stocks. 

By the way China had monetized their gold reserves. While this is not by any means a return to the gold standard it is a sensible first step. The only nation on earth with a currency supply in decent relation to their gold reserves is Switzerland. 

If the Swiss were to revert to the gold standard they would instantly become the world's default safe currency and dollar standard for world trade. This would also wildly overvalue the Swiss frank in relation to all other world currencies making Swiss exports wildly unpopular. However, this is a surprise tactic that only the Swiss can pull off.

If the time comes could they use it?


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## endurance

Canadian said:


> If you got some good coal stock picks post em up.


I like Arch Coal (ACI) for a number of reasons. First off, they have large reserves of coal that they own. You have to be careful when looking at coal mining stocks. Some companies don't even own land with coal on it, they're essentially contractors extracting coal for the land owners, and as such, they could get fired. Second, they're one of only three companies that are working with another company to develop coal to oil technology. Third, the price is right. Earnings are down because there's less steel production and manufacturing, but I look at this as a long term investment, not a short term hold.

Another one I just started watching is WLT (Walter Energy). I'm just starting my research, but the insider purchases in the last year are very promising, along with the current price relative to a year ago. I'm still trying to figure out how they operate and what their reserves are like, but it might be worth a sniff.

ANR (alpha Natural Resources) looks pretty good on the surface, but they just acquired another company last week. That's good news/bad news. Odds are they did it at the price of taking on a fair bit of debt, which is never good in this economy, but they may have just put themselves in a much stronger position long term. Projected profits look strong and they have a habit of blowing forecasts out of the water on the positive side. No insider buying recently, but no big sales either. Revenues look strong, but the P/E ratio is higher than most peers (who's share price has dropped more in recent times because of forward looking earnings). Because of that, it's not as good of a value, but it also appears to have better projected earnings despite the economy.

Avoid LPs or Limited Partnerships. While they yield very high dividends, they're a tax preparation nightmare. They also operate in a manner that's very confusing, often as the dividend yielding portion of a business that you have no say, like a traditional shareholder, on how it's run. The partner company can elect to do things that maximize their profit and leave you hanging.

Just my $.02. Do your own research before buying. I'm not a financial expert.


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## Canadian

Thanks for the coal info.


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## Canadian

Gold up to $937.00 U.S. and ounce today.


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## The_Blob

Canadian said:


> Gold up to $937.00 U.S. and ounce today.


it sure would be nice if the Chinese would go back to buying aluminum, copper & steel... prices for those are still in the toilet


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## Canadian

More lead painted toys for the kids.


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## Viking

Here's an appropriate pic for what's going on. It was from an article on Kitco.com.


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## sailaway

The_Blob said:


> it sure would be nice if the Chinese would go back to buying aluminum, copper & steel... prices for those are still in the toilet


The Chineese seem to be putting sulfer in the dry wall.


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## sailaway

Viking said:


> Here's an appropriate pic for what's going on. It was from an article on Kitco.com.


I agree that pic does sum it up to a degree. I have seen where stores in New York will take Euros instead of Dollars.


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## Canadian

The euro is shaping up to be the new common world currency replacing the American dollar.


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## Canadian

Gold to $940 U.S. an ounce.


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## Viking

Canadian said:


> Gold to $940 U.S. an ounce.


 Fridays close is over $950. I have no doubt that the gold value manipulators will strive to undercut the surge in gold by dumping more tonnes on the market but there is no way they can continue to do this, as it is there are already some nations demanding to have gold returned to them that is stored for them in custodial accounts in other countrys and many are no longer selling any of their stored gold bullion or mined gold.


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## Canadian

Gold at $957 trading closed. The U.S. treasure will dump a lot of gold which their closest friends will buy at under market value. This will drive the transaction price of gold down. They will then re sell it at a sane price and make huge profits. 

If it drops below $850 I'd recommend a buy.


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## Canadian

Gold keeps creeping up to $961 U.S. and ounce today. I guess we'll have to wait for more bad news before we se a spike over $1,000.


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## Canadian

Gold creeps to $980. Correction soon? Could be some profit taking.


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## The_Blob

when you say 'correction', don't you really mean 'manipulation'?...  

...whatever, if it puts it back down to $600 I'll TAKE it!


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## Viking

The_Blob said:


> when you say 'correction', don't you really mean 'manipulation'?...
> 
> ...whatever, if it puts it back down to $600 I'll TAKE it!


I'd jump on that too but as corrections go it would more likely be in the $800+ for a correction for a low range. With the US$ Index in the 78 area I believe we will probably see the $1000 sooner than most of the pundits have said it would get to, a lot of the standard cycle predictions aren't working. The GM and Chrysler bankruptcy, crude oil up to $68 and GM and Citigroup being just removed from the Dow Jones Industrial Index along with many other things going on make it pretty hard for the "manipulators" to have the control they would like to have over gold.


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## Canadian

You won't see $600 again. The lowest it will go back down is $750 max. To get anywhere near $600 you have to go back several years. The economy isn't getting any better. Gold will go back over $1,000 soon. Just a matter of when.


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## Canadian

Gold drops $30 to $955 U.S. an ounce. A big up and down swing over the last week. The action is still all on silver.


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## set2survive

We're not going to see $600 or even $750 gold until (and if) the USA economy gains a whole lot of ground and he dollar gets a lot stronger. It could be a long time I think.


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## Canadian

I think $750 would be the lowest we would see in the nest while. It would take another broad market whack to make that happen.


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## Canadian

Gold to $948 U.S. an ounce. Silver is still strong at around $15.


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## endurance

Silver is back up because China is back in the market for manufacturing electronics. If it weren't for the fear factor causing investment buying, the bottom would have fallen completely out (like Palladium & Platinum did in November-December... well Palladium is still down and will stay down until the auto industry returns). 

If this is a dead cat bounce rather than a recovery, expect silver to drop once China loses interest. If the economy really does rally, then expect oil prices to continue to rise to about $125/barrel, at which point, get your money out of stocks again. That will be like a bucket of cold water on the recovery and drive us right back to the bottom. Russia, Iran, and most other oil exporters want to keep oil around $70-75/barrel. That's what they've invested in. If it goes higher, it stiffles demand. If it goes lower, many countries can't pay the debt it took to install the infrastructure for extraction. Russia was losing money at $35/barrel (relative to debt), but needed the cash flow. Expect production and exploration to start to pick up as oil crosses over $70 (which it did today). If there's a supply chain issue, expect the price to rise fast. A hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico will really start an oil rally, but otherwise I think we're looking at $65-80/barrel all summer (probably $2.50-3.25/gallon gasoline along with it). If the economy heats up that will change slowly and stay up.


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## Canadian

I see the jump in silver due to the $980 invisible cap on gold trading. If people are too scared to let gold go up silver has to go up instead. I think gold is undervalued right now and it is reflected in the increase in the silver price. That's my theory.


----------



## endurance

I tend to agree that it's undervalued and I have little doubt that in the next decade we'll be amazed at how cheap it was in 2009. I think it's down to the world's banks trying to keep their balance sheets in the black and selling their reserves. Once the glut is off the market and/or the banks run out of gold, that's when the pressure on the price will return and we'll set all sorts of records. If you look at the volumes that the IMF was talking about selling off (something like 30 tons!), it's shocking the price is still in the $900s.

Gold just isn't consumed like silver is. Therefore, there's always competition in the nmesmatic markets, the industrial markets, and the silver investment markets. While prices can drop severely when industrial demand drops, when it resumes in uncertain economic times, it can also climb remarkably quickly. 

I'm currently very light on silver relative to gold and I'd like to get some more, but I just can't pay $18 for a silver coin and not lose sleep over it. That seems like way too much to me. Maybe I'm missing the boat, but I'm going to hope it drops back under $12/oz. again this year. 

What's the general ratio for US silver coins? 5:1 price to face value?


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## Canadian

My wife bought a load of silver coins for $10 and I was upset becuase we couldn't get any bullion at the time and I was pissed at having to pay for the numistic value of the coins. At $15 it seems like it was a smooth move at the time. I still can't get silver bullion anywhere.


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## Canadian

Gold way down to $939.


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## Canadian

Gold keeps dropping to $933. I'd predict a bounce at $920 but we'll see. Nobody can predict the market.


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## endurance

Not sure I agree with everything, but there's some good information:
MarketWatch.com Story


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## Canadian

Gold down to $920 U.S. and ounce.


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## Canadian

Wow. Gold down to $916 and dropping. Dropping hard vs. the Euro. Probably just a reaction to a broad market drop. Still, if it goes below $900 I'm buying.


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## sailaway

What's a current ball park price to sell U.S. Morgan and Peace Dollars for. I found a 1947 cj2a that looks like a good buy. I'm thinking of liquidating the silver to help pay for it.


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## Canadian

I'm not the best person to ask. I hate dealing in coins and try to stick strictly to bullion when supplies allow. 

It contains 0.77344 troy ounces of silver so I'd only be willing to pay the price for that weight of silver. I personally don't believe in neumistic values holding up in a time of crisis. 

I'd ask a local dealer.


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## endurance

Check with Apmex. They have both buy and sell prices on most coins. I've done a lot of business with them and they've always treated me well. If you're local to Colorado, I'd buy them off you for 10% over spot on the day of the transaction, but I'm not willing to do a mail transaction.


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## Expeditioner

Northwestern Territorial Mint is a pretty good source......www.nwtmint.com


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## Canadian

Gold down to $917.00 U.S. and ounce today.


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## endurance

It's so strange to see the dollar this strong right now with Obama having to play the salesman role with China, Japan, and the UK for our T-bills. We're not spending enough in Chinese goods to give them the surplus income they need to buy our debt. Now we have something like 5.6 trillion of debt that needs to revolve in the next 18-24 months and nobody interested in buying it. 

Right now the only thing propping up the dollar is the fact that every other first and second world nation in the world is in worse shape than we are.


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## Canadian

They keep on talking about stimulus and every time they do the market drops. News shows keep on talking optimistically about the "end of the recession." When will they wake up?


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## UncleJoe

What about the "green shoots" Oh wait, that must be the weeds in my garden that those guys are seeing.


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## endurance

*The end of the world AS WE KNOW IT*

They'll stop talking about the recovery when 'they' don't depend upon it anymore. Denial is a very powerful thing. What would you estimate is the number of jobs that really matter in society? 20% maybe? In the 18th and 19th century, before the discovery of the utility of fossil fuels, it took over 80% of the population to produce the food for a society. When you cut to the quick, if you're not producing food or providing healthcare your job isn't essential if it all comes crashing down. Scary as it is, nearly everyone here is still hooked into a system where what they do now is worthless when the SHTF.

Even an ICU or Oncology nurse in a modern hospital is going to be pretty damn limited in what she can offer if we have an EMP strike that destroys our ability to manufacture, refrigerate and transport drugs, operate motors that run respirators, heart-lung machines, dialisis machines and heck, even the lights. While the training may eventually become useful again, it will be a different world and they will have to work in a different way. Even a modern farmer will have to change absolutely everything if fuel prices reach $10/gallon or more. Small family farms that use work animals may see a return in the long run.

They'll keep talking recovery until we're truly on the bottom, then they'll talk like it's never going to end while the worst will probably be behind us. I don't see this as a flash in the pan. I see this as a long, slow decline lasting decades, with intervals of rallies and intervals of freefall. How you survive will depend on your ability to adapt and find new ways to secure food, energy, and the resources you need in daily life. We could have an enormous bubble in the economy in 2010 or we could continue to decline. If the economy improves, the price of oil will rise, which will put a cap on economic growth, and cause a retraction in the economy. The days of cheap oil are over, which means the party of the 20th century is drawing to a close. Enter the adjustment period for the post-peak oil phase of human history.

At best, we'll manage to retain some degree of public infrastructure, but it's unlikely to be anything like what we have today. Ideally we'll still have the ability to get drugs manufactured in a plant in LA to Denver and we'll be able to ship corn to New York city, but that's not a guaranteed thing. At the very least, we need to retain things like the germ theory, an understanding of basic chemistry, physics, biology, and electricity, but nothing is guaranteed. Look at the peak of Greek and Roman societies versus the dark ages. How much was lost on the basic understanding of architecture, sanitation, and social structure during that time and how long did it take to get back to that point? Centuries.

Throughout human history cities have been limited in scope between 300 and 50,000 people. Beyond 50,000 people, without the intensive infrastructure of the Romans, dealing with food, water, and transportation needs of a city fall apart. What's going to happen when cheap oil is gone? What's going to happen when there are global food shortages because it costs too much to plant, harvest and transport food with the existing infrastructure? How long will our interstate highway system last from the day we stop putting $300+ billion a year into it? If we stopped today, in three to five years you wouldn't be able to get from Denver to Kansas City in under two days because of the cracks, potholes, and degrading bridge joints would prohibit travel at much over 30mph. Do we continue to throw money at that infrastructure, which isn't even keeping up with the backlog of deferred maintainance right now, or do we take another look at the efficiency of rail transportation? Those are choices that nobody wants to make today, but they will have to be made in the next decade or two. Anyone under the age of 40 is certain to see the end of the everyday use of the personal car come to an end in their lifetimes. How will you adapt? Is where you live sustainable without a car? Can you access food, water, fuel (for heat) and medical care within walking distance? How does that remote bugout location sound from that perspective?

Maybe this is a post that belongs in its own thread, but your question, Canadian, inspired me to get to the core of the problem--it's not temporary, it's permanent and demands a complete change in paradigm that most of us are not prepared for. Even those of us who've been prepping for over 20 years.


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## UncleJoe

endurance said:


> Scary as it is, nearly everyone here is still hooked into a system where what they do now is worthless when the SHTF.


I began to experience this last summer. I prune and remove trees for a living. This type of service is discretionary spending unless a storm knocks a tree onto someones house. Right now - people are not spending. I've been in business 27 yrs and have never seen things as slow as they are now. I'm only working on average 3 days a week. When the SHTF in full force, I'm pretty certain that I will have little or no income. That's why in late "07", DW and I decided to devote more time and energy into producing as much of our own food as possible. We're reasonably confident that we got started in time and we can weather the coming storm.


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## northernontario

UncleJoe said:


> I began to experience this last summer. I prune and remove trees for a living. ...


See, you need to diversify your business. Get into the firewood supply business... with the cost of home-heating, many people are switching to wood as a way to heat, because its seen as a less expensive heating solution.


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## endurance

You were wise to gain the leadtime you did by starting when you first perceived the problem. While I've been prepping since the 1980s, I never thought about the long emergency that we're now facing until 2008. Thankfully, I got turned onto a survival podcast that was very gardening oriented over the winter and I've managed to get started. While my current property will never be 100% self-sufficient, it has been an excellent laboratory to learn things that would otherwise have to be learned too late. Just simple things like the scale of different plants is essential information to plan a garden. I ended up having broccoli shading out my carrots, but in other cases, it helped my lettuce stay fresh in the ground by keeping the soil cool. These are things to learn now, not later.

What do you think, should I repost the above post somewhere besides where it is so it'll get a proper discussion? Canadian, you're the supermod, what are your thoughts on moving this one.


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## UncleJoe

dtompsett said:


> See, you need to diversify your business. Get into the firewood supply business... with the cost of home-heating, many people are switching to wood as a way to heat, because its seen as a less expensive heating solution.


I did consider that last summer when oil went through the roof but then prices began to fall as heating season approached. I watched the price of wood drop as well. When oil was high, wood was going for around $180 - $200 a cord with some people asking $225 to as much as $250. It settled in around $150. With wood being our only heat source, I opted to hang on to what I had. It might come in handy when the price goes back up.
Since I saw business drop off so dramatically last year, I decided to expand the garden this year. I am going to take a lot of produce to a friends greenhouse/nursery and have her sell it there. She gets to take what she can use as a trade-off for using her space. I'm thinking that having a good barter system already in place before the SHTF will be of great benefit to all involved

*Endurance*. I started reading survival blog in the winter of 06-07. The more I read the more I thought " This man knows what he's talking about". In Feb. of 07 we noticed the packaging of food was shrinking while the price stayed the same. That was the moment we decided something was going wrong and we better take steps to be more dependent on ourselves. We bought goats and chickens that spring and went from a 500sq ft garden to about 2500. In 08 it expanded to 5000 and we added about 1/4 acre of winter wheat. That's not much but it was something new so we started small. That will get cut and stored any day now. 100% SS is a tough thing to attain. There are a lot of things that would be missing from our lives if we had to rely 100% on what we can do here, but we would survive, unless the zombie hoards have more firepower than us.  
Some type of sweetener is an area that we are truly lacking in. Yes, we have sugar stashed away, but it will only last for so long. Honey is the way to go for the long term but I just can't convince the DW to get hives. She swells up like a beach ball if she gets stung. 
Power is another trouble spot. I will soon have a diesel generator but here again, the fuel will only last so long then it's back to the old ways.
Plant more stuff in Aug. for a fall crop. Peas, beets, broccoli, carrots, and cabbage all prefer cool weather. You can even leave the carrots in the ground all winter and dig them out as you need them. Just mulch well before any long term freeze. You could also start some potatoes right now and with 5-6 plants you could have 40-50 lbs of taters for winter.


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## Canadian

Gold down to $913.


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## Canadian

Gold down to $908.00 American. What's going on?


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## endurance

Probably somebody with a lot of gold needs to raise cash (ie: the IMF, Bank of England, etc.). Supply and demand works both ways. Too much supply being forced on the market has the same effect as decreased demand. Also, there's a relationship between gold and oil and oil is down $10/bbl from it's peak since the demand is down with the sagging economy.

That's my guess/input.


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## dukman

endurance said:


> Probably somebody with a lot of gold needs to raise cash (ie: the IMF, Bank of England, etc.). Supply and demand works both ways. Too much supply being forced on the market has the same effect as decreased demand. Also, there's a relationship between gold and oil and oil is down $10/bbl from it's peak since the demand is down with the sagging economy.
> 
> That's my guess/input.


It could be the "little" buyers are just running out of dough.. and China realized they don't have to pay the overinflated prices to buy it. They are probably offering less than the going rate, helping to drive down the value.


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## Canadian

Boing! Gold up to $939.00 U.S. an ounce.


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## cattlefarmer

I have a large mix of gold and silver coins. 

When gold hit $915 I ran found a large amount of foreign gold coins and bought every one up I could. I ended up paying 2 cents a coin over the USD melt worth. I do own a 400 ounce gold bar. 

Right now gold is $939.60 and silver is $13.19 an once US.


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## Viking

endurance said:


> Probably somebody with a lot of gold needs to raise cash (ie: the IMF, Bank of England, etc.). Supply and demand works both ways. Too much supply being forced on the market has the same effect as decreased demand. Also, there's a relationship between gold and oil and oil is down $10/bbl from it's peak since the demand is down with the sagging economy.
> 
> That's my guess/input.


 I think it was the IMF that just sold 400 plus tonnes of gold, central banks also sell tonnes of gold when they get antsy seeing the value of gold going up. They can only do this so many times and they don't have enough left or they realize that too many people are just not believing them anymore, that may be one reason for the $939 gold. I think the PTB's are getting increasingly nervous seeing their plans and schemes falling apart and are making very risky desperate moves that are going to blow up in their faces. Sad thing is it's going to hurt a lot of innocent people in the process.


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## Canadian

I'd love to have the giant 400 oz bar just for fun. I keep mine in singles just for practicality.


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## cattlefarmer

The 400 oz bar dose not have much of a use in practicality. I do have a good mix of gold and silver coins for practicality. I want to go get a few more bars but I can’t find a local dealer to will get them. I would rather have my money in 400 oz bars then in the stock market and don’t forget to look at the long term savings in taxes.

I don’t like to pay more then 3 cent per a coin over there worth in the metal. It’s getting hard to find coins with out paying for them being rare any more.


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## Canadian

Gold up to $951.00 U.S. today.


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## endurance

Errrm, what's the point of this thread anymore? Daily gold report?

Just seems to have run its course.


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## Viking

endurance said:


> Errrm, what's the point of this thread anymore? Daily gold report?
> 
> Just seems to have run its course.


 I guess one could say that this whole emergency preparedness site has run it's course if this is true, but this thread like many threads on this site could be a point of reference for someone other than you or me. It just could be that it will help someone who doesn't know what's going on in this area. We seem to be in a lull in the move toward the financial downfall of this nation, it is what some call the summer doldrums. Don't become complacent, this whole dollar downfall can't be delayed for long because there is just too much negative energy behind it. This is still a good time to buy gold and silver, maybe the only time to get it at what could be considered an affordable price.


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## Canadian

I like to check in on this thread on occasion. Plus it's an easy way to check the bigger moves in the gold price which I check daily anyways. It might be nice to see what people were saying back when gold was $900 an ounce.


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## Canadian

Gold is over $1,000.00 U.S. today people. Let's see if it sticks.


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## UncleJoe

I had a feeling I'd see this thread come back up today when I saw it topped $1000 today. You're right on top of things Canadian.


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## Canadian

$1,017.00 U.S. an ounce. A new world record! Is the low 1,000's the new 900's? Will it stick? If it does how soon before we see the rapid trend line up to $3,000 gold?

Gold has never been this big and it is destined to get bigger. Hooray! Time to do a Scrooge McDuck and "Make it rain!"


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## Canadian

Gold through the roof. $1,036.00 U.S. today and climbing. Looks like $1,000 is the new $900. Hold on to your gold folks. How many months before we see $2,000?


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## Canadian

My financial news letters are reporting that gold will gain $300 to $600 in the next six months. An excellent time to buy. They are also reporting that silver is set to "go crazy" in the same time period. The prediction is that silver will realize greater gains than gold. 

If you can buy in at around $1,000 you could be at $1,300 at the very least in six months. The money situation makes a small gain of only $100 to $200 almost impossible. 

Cha Ching!


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## bunkerbob

Just bought US golden eagles today at a coin shop, $1083 each (spot gold was at $1040), and some silver half dollars, actually a better deal than buying silver dollars. My IRA only gets about .90% interest now


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## Canadian

Good stuff Bob. Hang in there. As long as the printing presses are running 24/7 to support the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and all those bail outs gold is a can't lose situation.

Price today $1,051 U.S. an ounce. The only question is how quickly will we get to $1,300 an ounce?


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## bunkerbob

When you buy gold as a hedge it will be good enough if it just holds its original value. Buy small amounts of silver coin as barter, easier than large coin or igots. Anyone can do this little at a time, instead of that extra 6 pac of beer, well maybe the extra pac of cigarettes, well maybe the extra.... you know what I mean.

"What are you an Ant or a Grasshopper"...Remember the fable...


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## greaseman

*gold*

You can buy it now, or later. it doesn't make any difference. Unlike the paper dollar, it will "hold" a value despite financial conditions. That's the thing--it will "hold" a value. paper money continues to drop, and won't stop. The death spiral has started, and it's a global problem.

I figure my money in my 401k is toast, unless I convert it to gold and silver assets that I physically hold. So, as fast as practical, I'm switching, slowly but surely. if the price does a temporary correction because of being over bought, whopee, gold or silver on sale.

Convert now while you're able, you'll sleep better at night, because at a higher or lower price, you'll have a real asset that will allow you to weather a storm of inflation. It's just like saving money, slowly and surely it adds up. Dicipline and time, although we don't have much time left. Good luck.


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## Canadian

Gold at $1,041 U.S. an ounce today. I hear you Greaseman. Even if people are getting in now folks still say were looking at $3,300 an ounce gold in the future. It just depends on how long it takes to get to that point.


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## kyfarmer

Ok fool i is. When tshtf it will eclipse $5000 an once, sounds crazy don,t it. Only about 10-15% of gold to cover the world debt, what ya gona use for money, barter will only go so far. Gold silver and other metal's will be around, a little here and there. Well just my crazy opine.


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## Canadian

INFLATION WARNING

Hey everyone I just had dinner with the father in law and discussed investing. He's been buying gold and oil. He putting almost all of his cash assets into commodities. When gold broke $1,000 and stayed up I interpreted it as simply having broken through artificial resistance towards the proper value it should have.

Instead we can see this rise as the first sparks of hyperinflation. The first round of bailout money was mostly American and went to finance companies and banks. These companies simply parked the money. It never went out in the form of mew loans and the money to this day continues to sit. If the money does not circulate it's almost as if it does not exist. It technically does not cause inflation because although there is a gross increase to the money supply - that increase is not in circulation.

However, the G20 countries have been in collusion and bailouts have been going on world wide. These international sources of freshly printed money are putting the money into circulation - unlike the U.S. banks. What does this mean? It means...

Hyperinflation is on!

Those of you still interested in gold should buy now. Personally I'm looking to make a big buy in silver instead as I see better growth potential there. Oil is now seen as a "can't loose" commodity. Uranium and rare earths as well. Real Estate is also an excellent option.

Most investor news letters are indicating minimum $1,200 gold in the next few months. Worldwide hyperinflation started unofficially on October 1st. 

We're one step closer to the collapse. The only question is how rapidly it will happen. I'm going to be speeding up my preps. 

Good Luck Folks!!!


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## UncleJoe

Canadian said:


> INFLATION WARNING
> 
> Those of you still interested in gold should buy now. Personally I'm looking to make a big buy in silver instead as I see better growth potential there. Oil is now seen as a "can't loose" commodity. Uranium and rare earths as well. Real Estate is also an excellent option.
> We're one step closer to the collapse. The only question is how rapidly it will happen. I'm going to be speeding up my preps.
> 
> Good Luck Folks!!!


Canadian, You and most of the people here have earned my respect in the 10 months I've been here, so please don't take my comments as criticism or an attack on your intelligence. 

In my thread "Home from Above" you commented on several of us having so much land. In this post you mention real estate as "an excellent option". If you have the capital to "make a big buy in silver" might it not be prudent to invest that money in a few acres of land on which to have a garden and grow your own food, have a few chickens for meat and eggs, and maybe a few goats for meat and milk? Just those three items insure that you will have a sustained food source. I understand that you have food storage to get you by for a while and that metals are a great hedge against inflation, however, food stores will run out and gold and silver are very hard on the digestive system.  
We have worked hard becoming debt free and turning this place into a productive farm. That left absolutely nothing extra to buy into the commodities market. Actually, we have NO investments at all except what I showed in that pic which is about 10 acres and a big jar of silver coins that have accumulated over the years. Yet we feel reasonably confident that we can weather the coming storm with only minor inconveniences because we have the ability to produce food for eating and storing and in a normal growing season we could barter or sell any excess for other things we might need. That is unless there is a complete societal breakdown in which case all bets are off. 
Remember your words from an older thread; Survival = Food, Shelter, Water

I am the LAST person in the world that should try to give investment advice to anyone, but you appear to have the resources to get yourself set up for what you seem to envy about some of us. Go out there and get it. :kiss:


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## Canadian

Hey Joe, there are many reasons why I don't just up and move out of town. The biggest one right now is that my dad's cancer has come back and he's no longer in remission. That's one huge reason to stay close to home. That's just one of the many reasons. 

There's lots of family that need taking care of, my job requires me to be in the city, I have not completed my basic preps, and when gold and silver go up in value I'll be able to buy the land more easily.

The economy will get worse and the value of my metals will go up. People with land will lose their jobs and become desperate to sell. That's when I'll buy the land. When other people have lost almost everything. Timing is everything. There's also the whole buy low sell high idea. I'd rather do things at the right time than right now. Gold and Silver will grow in value at a higher rate than real estate. 

Also I'm very urban. I'm working on some new plans for the "bug in" strategy. My wife and I are accelerating our preps. One of the major Canadian gun dealers has SKS rifles from Africa new in the original crates on the way to their warehouse. I'll be buying at least one case of rifles and several cases of milsurp ammo. I'll also be approaching family and friends about a group bug in and survival strategy. 

Should be interesting. I've got near term food, water, and shelter nailed down. Different strokes for different folks. 

Peace!


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## UncleJoe

OK. I was just curious. Sorry to hear about your dad. Family illness can be a trying time. I've been there. Just one other note I'd like to make. eep: Gardening and animal husbandry can have a steep learning curve. Been there too. Actually, I still am.  Good luck in all your endeavors.


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## bunkerbob

I have to agree with both of you, each of us has their own agendas and priorities. For Canadian gold or precious metals may be his only choice right now. While as UncleJoe had his choice. I myself have done some of both, because the situation was right at the time. I'am also sorry to hear about Canadians father, good health sometimes is out of our hands despite good preparations.


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## Canadian

Yeah, survival is important but we all need a reason to keep going. I'd like to live a long healthy life but I'd sacrifice myself in a second if it would save a loved one. I think a lot of us are like that. There are a few ex military who post here and I'm sure most of them are the kind of people who wouldn't "leave a man behind." Life is complicated and the whole economic mess makes it even harder. My wife and I are talking more and more about how we're going to survive. But neither of us wants to survive without the people we love. The more "real" the situation gets the harder it is to face up to making those "tough calls" on who gets help and how we do it. 

God Bless us all.

Gold is $1,044 U.S. an ounce today.


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## Canadian

Holy gold at $1,091 U.S. today and rising!?! Will we see $1,100 gold so soon!?! Go gold go! 

This is probably up on the news that India's central bank bough 200 tones of it on the open market. World governments are now wising up tot he value of gold. This means less gold in private hands. It also means that gold will rise in value rapidly. It also shows the lack of faith that is growing in many nations when it comes to the paper money system. 

Let's see if this rise sticks.


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## Canadian

Gold at $1,097 today. Soooooo close. Please just three more dollars!


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## Canadian

Canadian said:


> Gold at $1,097 today. Soooooo close. Please just three more dollars!


The same number again today. Come on gold get up there!


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## Canadian

Gold at $1,108.00 U.S. an ounce today. It just keeps getting better.


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## bunkerbob

As you know I just bought gold for a hedge against inflation. But, as it goes up the dollar falls, I'm kinda caught in a quandary as well as the rest of us that have done likewise.


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## Canadian

Not everything inflates at the same rate. So even if your dollars are worth less in relation to gold some items will be worth more than the currency or less than the currency. You also have to remember that the American dollar is not the only currency in the world. You can easily move your money into the Euro for example. However, I would not recommend it.

By the way. Last week the central bank of India bought 200 tons of gold. They are following moves by lots of Asian banks. The trend shows no signs of stopping. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are still on to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars per minute. The banks are still printing money like crazy.

Gold and silver will continue to rise. The question is how fast?


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## usafa93

*Bullish Gold - But Aware of History*

Hi, Thanks for making this site available (1st post). I'm grateful to the folks that put it together and maintain it.

I've been bullish gold for a year now, but I've been investing in a different manner. I buy mining companies. They have more leverage (i.e. more volatile) than the underlying commodity. As an investment, I like gold a lot right now (short/medium term).

Here's something to keep in mind about gold as an investment. If you bought gold in 1981, and sat on it for the past 28 years, you have lost value. If you invested in the DJ Industrial Average, you would have made about 1000% return. (BTW: back in '81, people were all excited about gold, and speculating on the price hitting $800 USD. Very similar sentiment to today). In other words, you could buy over 10 ounces for every 1 that the guy in '81 bought.

Many would argue that gold is a terrible long-term investment, and they have a mountain of imperical evidence on their side.

As far as emergency prepardeness goes, that is a different argument. Really, though, if I have a store of food and supplies, am I really going to trade that gold? I can't eat gold. I can't farm with it. I can't shoot game or an intruder with it. Gold is currency. Currency fascilitates barter. Trade is a characteristic of an advanced civilization. In a SHTF scenario, you are not talking about an advanced civilization, you are describing survival (i.e. communisim at best).

I put my survival worth into supplies and skills. I can always trade those for gold if I'm wrong, and I do end up needing some. The converse doesn't work so well.


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## bunkerbob

*Gold-gold-gold*



Canadian said:


> Gold at $1,108.00 U.S. an ounce today. It just keeps getting better.


Well Canadian its not stopping yet $1164 at close, silver $18.58.:beercheer:


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## Viking

Gold broke through $1120 this morning. Euro is going through pains with Greece---part of the PIIGS nations problems.


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## HozayBuck

Gold is worth whatever a person is willing to pay for it that's all, you can't eat it, or wear it in SHTF times, yes after the smoke clears away there may be people who will trade food or goods for it but in the mean time I'd rather be sitting on what $5000.00 will buy in LTS goods then 5 oz's of gold.

Now if your looking to buy it and later sell it and by a Beemer with your profits then more power to you, but for me and mine, having our farmstead and animals for meat and milk and eggs is worth way more then gold..what would a dozen eggs be worth if your starving with a pocket full of gold coins?

Being debt free and having your preps in place and a roof over your head is to me worth way more then gold..

As old LL Bean said..." Man walks into the farmers yard and says see this $500.00 gold coin? Farmer says yep, see that $500.00 chicken?" 

Back in the 80's when gold shot up and people were going crazy buying it, a friends dad bought Kruggrands for $600.00 each, not long after gold went to $305.00... and yes if the family still has them they are now worth $400.00 more then he paid.. So, sell? or sit?

All of us in here have our own thoughts and plans and hopes, I wish the best for all of us... today I just happened to check on line on a CC that I had paid off several months ago.... the CC company ( Capital one) had jumped my APR from 10% to 23 % and never notified me...I canceled the card and then said to hell with it and chopped up both card I had...no cash...no buy... I do own a debit card and use it in place of cash... as so many places won't take checks these days....

Buy ammo and guns boys before the Demnazis decide to do what they always do.... they will be worth more then gold for a long time after gold is worthless and still will be worth their weight in gold after gold comes back....

Of course this is only my opinion and means squat to only me....


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## greaseman

HozayBuck said:


> Gold is worth whatever a person is willing to pay for it that's all, you can't eat it, or wear it in SHTF times, yes after the smoke clears away there may be people who will trade food or goods for it but in the mean time I'd rather be sitting on what $5000.00 will buy in LTS goods then 5 oz's of gold.
> 
> Now if your looking to buy it and later sell it and by a Beemer with your profits then more power to you, but for me and mine, having our farmstead and animals for meat and milk and eggs is worth way more then gold..what would a dozen eggs be worth if your starving with a pocket full of gold coins?
> 
> Being debt free and having your preps in place and a roof over your head is to me worth way more then gold..
> 
> As old LL Bean said..." Man walks into the farmers yard and says see this $500.00 gold coin? Farmer says yep, see that $500.00 chicken?"
> 
> Back in the 80's when gold shot up and people were going crazy buying it, a friends dad bought Kruggrands for $600.00 each, not long after gold went to $305.00... and yes if the family still has them they are now worth $400.00 more then he paid.. So, sell? or sit?
> 
> All of us in here have our own thoughts and plans and hopes, I wish the best for all of us... today I just happened to check on line on a CC that I had paid off several months ago.... the CC company ( Capital one) had jumped my APR from 10% to 23 % and never notified me...I canceled the card and then said to hell with it and chopped up both card I had...no cash...no buy... I do own a debit card and use it in place of cash... as so many places won't take checks these days....
> 
> Buy ammo and guns boys before the Demnazis decide to do what they always do.... they will be worth more then gold for a long time after gold is worthless and still will be worth their weight in gold after gold comes back....
> 
> Of course this is only my opinion and means squat to only me....


 Your opinion of gold, or other precious metals, is fast becoming more common. People are realizing exactly what you say, and the common sense it makes. if things are as truly bad as they can get, the average person would rather keep his food than sell it.

As our economic outlook gets dimmer and dimmer, i think more and more people, including my self, will opt for the food as being as important, if not the most important thing to have plenty of. I go through daily episodes of trying to figure what I need to purchase next. I buy more long term food stores every month, and also keep buying precious metals as I'm able.

As spring nears, I think I'll try to buy some heirloom seeds, and store them in the freezer. That will give me a sustainable source of food. So many things to think about, but time is surely getting shorter.


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## UncleJoe

greaseman said:


> As spring nears, I think I'll try to buy some heirloom seeds, and store them in the freezer. That will give me a sustainable source of food. So many things to think about, but time is surely getting shorter.


I wouldn't wait too long to get those seeds. We have a friend that works for Burpee. Last year they had record sales for veggie seeds and they are already on track to surpass that record this year. I have my order made up now and will be sending it in this week. Last year I ordered from a couple different places in late March and couldn't get everything I wanted. 
I concur about the gold. When food becomes short, I'll get my gold and silver.


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## greaseman

I live in an area that is both urban, and agricultural. There are enough seed and feed stores around to pick up a good supply of seeds locally./ The only problem can be getting enough heirloom varieties. I will probably get them thru online sources. 

seeds store in the freezer well. I have had seeds that I stored, and planted them years later, and they did well. Still, the biggest task is finding and storing heirloom varieties.

I guess the problems with online sellers is a clear indication that many people are taking the warnings of preppers. Get your stuff now, and don't wait till it becomes an "oops" situation. That's coming soon I believe.


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## sailaway

The Russians control about 90% of the worlds gold, all they have to do is decide to sell off and then watch the price drop. The last time the gold bubble burst, Monex and everybody was advertising to buy and sell on tv just like they are today. Look at all of the we buy gold signs along the highway, looks like a mature bubble near bursting to me.:scratch


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## pdx210

never invested in gold... major world currencies aren't backed by it and thats not going to change and as others have stated if we need gold to make purchases all of us will be more concerned with food, shelter so you'd be better off spending your money wisely on basics. 

that said, I own some silver i think it was under valued when i purchased it back in 2000-2003 at 4-8.00 oz. it certainly has many industrial uses


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## bunkerbob

sailaway said:


> The Russians control about 90% of the worlds gold, all they have to do is decide to sell off and then watch the price drop. The last time the gold bubble burst, Monex and everybody was advertising to buy and sell on tv just like they are today. Look at all of the we buy gold signs along the highway, looks like a mature bubble near bursting to me.:scratch


I'm not sure if your info is correct... Who Owns Most of the World's Gold? you might check ths article.
They might have the largest gold deposits not yet developed.
The top countries that produce gold are... 
WikiAnswers - What country produces the most gold


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## Canadian

Wow... I have not checked this forum in a long time. When I first posted this thread gold was under $1,000 an ounce. Today it's creeping ever closer to $2,000. In the near future $3,300 gold is just around the corner.


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## BlueShoe

I don't know how much the Russians hold, but the USA holds 8,000 tons of gold alone. The EU holds about 11,000 tons between all the member countries. 

How much gold does Russia hold? I wouldn't think it would be more than either of those.


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## Hooch

I wonder how much we and the european countries hold now that hugo chavez took all his back??


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## Elinor0987

Hooch said:


> I wonder how much we and the european countries hold now that hugo chavez took all his back??


If you believe those crooks over there at JPMorgan, we're holding plenty!


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## BillS

Canadian said:


> Wow... I have not checked this forum in a long time. When I first posted this thread gold was under $1,000 an ounce. Today it's creeping ever closer to $2,000. In the near future $3,300 gold is just around the corner.


I always find it interesting when people say that gold has no value and they'd rather have preps. That's nice but when you have all the preps you need and you have money to invest what else do you buy? I'm not putting money in the stock market. Gold is the safest investment because it'll keep going up in value as currencies lose value. And any type of financial panic sends the gold price higher. We bought gold at $1544 in June. It closed at $1825 on Friday. If there's significant damage to New York City you can bet that gold will go through the roof when the Asian markets open on Sunday afternoon Eastern time.


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## Elinor0987

BillS said:


> I always find it interesting when people say that gold has no value and they'd rather have preps. That's nice but when you have all the preps you need and you have money to invest what else do you buy? I'm not putting money in the stock market. Gold is the safest investment because it'll keep going up in value as currencies lose value.


After the post I made a while back about bartering with gold, I've had to reconsider my opinion about it. I still think it has bartering value. I still think it can be dangerous to have in a disaster situation where others might know that you have it (and people need to be very careful about bartering with it). Since I've already stocked up on all of the food and first aid supplies that I can keep here and have more in storage, there isn't much else that I can do until I get a house where I can stock up on more supplies. I decided to take a risk and invest in a few Canadian mining companies. I have no idea of the outcome and can only hope that it will increase in value. I feel better holding money in these companies than I do leaving it sit at the bank. Altogether I have 2,755 shares between the two companies. It's all a gamble and I'm not usually the gambling type. But in the last few months the value of stock has almost tripled and it makes me sick because I could have bought the stock then and now would have enough money to buy a house.


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## UncleJoe

Canadian said:


> Wow... I have not checked this forum in a long time.


Long time - No See. Welcome back!!


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## BillM

*Mineing stock and PM futures*



Elinor0987 said:


> After the post I made a while back about bartering with gold, I've had to reconsider my opinion about it. I still think it has bartering value. I still think it can be dangerous to have in a disaster situation where others might know that you have it (and people need to be very careful about bartering with it). Since I've already stocked up on all of the food and first aid supplies that I can keep here and have more in storage, there isn't much else that I can do until I get a house where I can stock up on more supplies. I decided to take a risk and invest in a few Canadian mining companies. I have no idea of the outcome and can only hope that it will increase in value. I feel better holding money in these companies than I do leaving it sit at the bank. Altogether I have 2,755 shares between the two companies. It's all a gamble and I'm not usually the gambling type. But in the last few months the value of stock has almost tripled and it makes me sick because I could have bought the stock then and now would have enough money to buy a house.


I only deal in PM Bullion. It is safe anything else is pure speculation !


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## BillS

Elinor0987 said:


> After the post I made a while back about bartering with gold, I've had to reconsider my opinion about it. I still think it has bartering value. I still think it can be dangerous to have in a disaster situation where others might know that you have it (and people need to be very careful about bartering with it). Since I've already stocked up on all of the food and first aid supplies that I can keep here and have more in storage, there isn't much else that I can do until I get a house where I can stock up on more supplies. I decided to take a risk and invest in a few Canadian mining companies. I have no idea of the outcome and can only hope that it will increase in value. I feel better holding money in these companies than I do leaving it sit at the bank. Altogether I have 2,755 shares between the two companies. It's all a gamble and I'm not usually the gambling type. But in the last few months the value of stock has almost tripled and it makes me sick because I could have bought the stock then and now would have enough money to buy a house.


Good luck with your investment. I'm concerned about the stock market as a whole though. I think it's headed for a crash and it will take the good stocks with it. I own my gold through BullionVault.com. They store the gold for you for a tiny monthly charge. It's easy to resell it and have them send you the money. I've done that before.

I like old silver coins as a way to barter. A 1950 silver dime is worth about $3. You might want to check out this wikipedia article on junk silver:

Junk silver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I bought my junk silver for about 6% over the spot price. That included the credit card surcharge and shipping.

90% SILVER Coins | Buy Mercury Dimes Online | $1 Face


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