# Survival Garden



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I am a little embarrassed to admit but I DVR Doomsday Castle. I know in many way its dumb, primarily because its an op-sec nightmare, but I love architecture and have always wanted to build a castle, and I also think its sociologically interesting.

Plus I have gotten a few ideas for my BOL. That being said...a few weeks back they talked about a system of gardening that is organized not by crop but by ecosystem. The idea is that you plant a garden organized in concentric circles of plant types that are mutually beneficial to each other.

My question: anyone hear of this before or know of any literature about this type of gardening. The reason I am particularly interested is because they claim that this type of garden is largely self-sufficient. Helpful to those of us who can't live at our BOL. It produces year after year. And it is camouflaged in contrast with neat rows and patches.


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

Depending where your BOL is the native plants are likely to continuously take over the permaculture you introduce. Where we live most perenials that are not native need to be moved about every three years because the grasses and native trees tend to choke out the food plants. 

Straight rows are easier to maintain, cultivate, and harvest, particularly where native plants are in competition.

The concentric circles of planted species would likely do much better in an urban setting than in a rural one where native species self propogate.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

I am currently reading a book by Martin Coleman titled Creating a Forest Garden. There is a lot of information on the net about this subject and will vary by location greatly, but it is based on companion type planting from perenials, shrubs, & trees. Plants are used that fix nitrogen in the soil for other plants to use. It is a pretty involved process over all, but can be done on scale from 1/2 acre (or less) to tens or hundreds of acres.

It would be a great deal of work to establish such a garden, early on in particular, but as years go by, much less work other than harvesting. I just heard of this in the spring and began to research as time permits. But I have always been one to try new things and have over the years planted lots of trees on our place, including a fair size orchard for the two of us (apples, pears, nectarines, papaws, pecans, & cherries. We have also got various herbs going along with a good size garden (1/2 acre). I am going to attempt to put at least some of this method into play. I figure if it produces even some in the future it will provide food with very little work, leaving some time for other things besides gardening all the time to survive.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Padre said:


> The idea is that you plant a garden organized in concentric circles of plant types that are mutually beneficial to each other.


This sounds a bit like companion gardening. Using plants to draw away the bugs and pests that would otherwise destroy your garden.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Grimm said:


> This sounds a bit like companion gardening. Using plants to draw away the bugs and pests that would otherwise destroy your garden.


 you're right, it is companion planting, 
I've never done this myself but have watched the guy over the yrs and always thought square foot gardening was the way to go if cramped for space and had the time to putter around. get the right amount of top soil, sand, compost mixed together in a raised bed with water from a sprinkled system, even rain water from the roof.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Vegetable garden maybe, but large fruit trees like apples,pear & plums should not have shrubs any closer then 8-10 feet dia.
The Blue berries I have need to be planted 10-15 apart if you have the space, because they will fill this space in 8-15 years. Plant them 2-4 feet apart & you will have the plant running together, with much more pruning.
Raspberries,blackberries, Dewberries will be a jungle in 2-3 year, if you do not put them up on wire.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Padre said:


> I am a little embarrassed to admit but I DVR Doomsday Castle. I know in many way its dumb, primarily because its an op-sec nightmare, but I love architecture and have always wanted to build a castle, and I also think its sociologically interesting.
> 
> Plus I have gotten a few ideas for my BOL. That being said...a few weeks back they talked about a system of gardening that is organized not by crop but by ecosystem. The idea is that you plant a garden organized in concentric circles of plant types that are mutually beneficial to each other.
> 
> My question: anyone hear of this before or know of any literature about this type of gardening. The reason I am particularly interested is because they claim that this type of garden is largely self-sufficient. Helpful to those of us who can't live at our BOL. It produces year after year. And it is camouflaged in contrast with neat rows and patches.


If I had cable, I would watch it. I watch anything preparedness because there might be an idea or more to glean from watching, or an idea of what not to do!

I do not have much land, and I have removed many weed trees since I have purchased my place. Some of the roots were invasive and I have done a lot of work to dig them out. I had a huge ailanthus. I finally had a guy dig out the roots because they kept popping up all over. When he was digging, his head was below ground level. After that was over, I have planted a dwarf peach and pear in that area. The peach tree is miraculous in its production.

I don't know about planting in concentric circles. In my narrower (3 feet wide or less) garden beds, I plant randomly to fill in. I have an onion patch like this that I planted several years ago. It comes back each year and I continue to use onions as needed.

Mountain man and Gypsy Sue have started a carrot garden that has carrots planted two years in a row and therefore always has carrots. I thought their idea was ingenious. I plan on having a carrot garden.

I have considered planting more garden patches like this in areas that I might or will bug out to. There is so much unused or untended land all over. I don't think a survival garden has to be on my land. If I plant such a garden, it may be raided by others, but that is the risk.


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## JackDanielGarrett (Sep 27, 2010)

Padre, YOU are the last person I ever thought would like Dooms Day Castle......having said that..."Kinda cool huh?"...

I too have been thinking of a "survival garden". The American Beauty Berry has many good points, fruit, replying insects, and the leaves make a good tea. The Wax Myrtle bush, insect control and the berries can be boiled to extract the wax for candles. The myrtle leaves can be burnt or laid around to deter some insects. I have blueberries which I think are top shelf for a very useful plant, the leaves make a great tea. Some holly trees are good for a tea drink. But as we all know, it is the plants that grow in your area is what you can use.

Love the topic, Padre. Cant wait to hear all the responses.
Jack


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## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

Padre, 

Modern agriculture is done the way it is because it produces abundance.
Be careful spending time studying vapors or specters. An abundant diet isn't about new ideas... 

IMHO your best bet is to learn what grows naturally in your area that can give you vitamins... Wild greens, berries and fruits, few actual garden veggies have these in abundance. Most garden veggies are high in sugar so they taste good. Learn what crops give calories. Grow them in abundance. In your area, root crops will be the most productive, year in year out. True grains will be difficult all years, but 8 out of 10 they can work, Barley, oats, and buckwheat can be grown with abundance. Finally protein, Don't forget fish... Small fish, some would say tiny... provide all you need and are over looked by most. Minnows are a great additive to your diet and grow quickly.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Padre, I am going to check out the concentric circles.
This link may help you in Mass.
http://localfoods.about.com/od/searchbyregion/a/masssesasons.htm


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## Tank_Girl (Dec 26, 2011)

Padre said:


> I am a little embarrassed to admit but I DVR Doomsday Castle. I know in many way its dumb, primarily because its an op-sec nightmare, but I love architecture and have always wanted to build a castle, and I also think its sociologically interesting.
> 
> Plus I have gotten a few ideas for my BOL. That being said...a few weeks back they talked about a system of gardening that is organized not by crop but by ecosystem. The idea is that you plant a garden organized in concentric circles of plant types that are mutually beneficial to each other.
> 
> My question: anyone hear of this before or know of any literature about this type of gardening. The reason I am particularly interested is because they claim that this type of garden is largely self-sufficient. Helpful to those of us who can't live at our BOL. It produces year after year. And it is camouflaged in contrast with neat rows and patches.


What you are describing is a Permaculture system of food forest.
A mature, 3 to 4 years +, permaculture food forest is self sustaining and self perpetuating with little to no imputs from the gardener.

There are heaps of permaculture forums where you can learn the techniques to design and integrate it into the landscape.

Some are better than others.
Good folks who have a lot of common sense, not given to bunny hugging or hysterics.

In a SHTF situation the masses would descend upon recognizable crops, eat animals but would walk right through or past useful eatable plants in a forest.

Something worth, at least, thinking about.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

In my area blackberries are abundant and it seems as if apple trees do well in the wild also. I have been harvesting both wild and it got me thinking that perhaps I could plant a few things that might take off on their own. At current I am trying blueberries and current along with mint, next spring I am going to plant some apple, plum, and pear trees. I have a gardener in my group who is helping me actually do the planting but her knowledge is not primarily about growing food crops in this non-traditional way, i.e. self-sustaining. So I am just trying to observe what is growing in nature. My main problem is that I am not a farmer and don't have the time to become one. My land is fertile, but not ideal for farming, or gardening. A few of you mentioned root crops, I really know very little about them but potatoes, white and sweet, are two of the things I would like to know more about. I understand they grow in cellars(?). I need to read up on them but if they can grow with little attention then they might be great for me.

I have several local farms/gardens run by locals in my area and it is my hope that I can barter goods and services to supplement food stores and what I can hunt/gather (my group includes lots of folks with some time behind a black gun, including ex-military and professional security types, several medical types, a couple engineers/fix it men); that being said it doesn't hurt to have at least some of your own resources. 

I spend about a month to a month and a half at my BOL a year and love being able to do simple preps during this time but aside from planting or clearing an area occasionally the plants are one their own. At this point I don't even care if animals get to the plants so long as they don't harm the plants, as that will help me during hunting season and if the SHTF I would hopefully be present 24/7 to prevent this.

Thanks for your input folks.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

JackDanielGarrett said:


> Padre, YOU are the last person I ever thought would like Dooms Day Castle......having said that..."Kinda cool huh?"...
> 
> I too have been thinking of a "survival garden". The American Beauty Berry has many good points, fruit, replying insects, and the leaves make a good tea. The Wax Myrtle bush, insect control and the berries can be boiled to extract the wax for candles. The myrtle leaves can be burnt or laid around to deter some insects. I have blueberries which I think are top shelf for a very useful plant, the leaves make a great tea. Some holly trees are good for a tea drink. But as we all know, it is the plants that grow in your area is what you can use.
> 
> ...


You are right... I thought I would hate it, but I am interested in group social dynamics, and psycho-socially it is interesting. I am a big group sort of prepper, I believe that in general people are an asset, although also a mouth to feed, because without people you can't have a division of labor such that you can both grow food, can food, fix things, care for children, and rest--ALL WHILE SOMEONE ELSE is DILIGENTLY pulling security. The fuedalism of the Castle age really was a SHTF coping mechanism and so a castle metality and feudal social order is IMHO one of the best options for a real TEOTWAWKI scenario. At current my BOL has beds for 13 and we plan on doubling that in the next year, but the 30 folks who I would like to have if the SHTF are going to be living in tight quarters and hot racking it if things go down before I have the money to build a chalet with private rooms for 30, and so seeing the sometime tense family dynamics helps me think about the personalities I am dealing with. Also as some of my group don't even formally know about the groups existence for some their will be a learning curve for post SHTF life, much like there is for some of the neophyte children.

I am also a big fan of improvised fortifications and I am getting also sort of ideas from the way they are fortifying their castle. My only gripe with the show is that it looks like he is basing his idea of what a Castle looks like on the English manner house which was in style after the English crown essentially made Castles illegal to prevent insurrection. Personally I would have gone with a windowless exterior wall with an inner courtyard onto which windowed buildings could face. This would allow for secure workshops, utilities, well water, separate housing for different parts of the family, and perhaps even a place for livestock withing the walls.

To the OP: The gardening thing surprised me though because it a) made sense from the point of view of out of sight is much better for opsec than neat rows, and b) because it seems like this form of gardening required the amount of time that I have to give. That an I am much more excited about berries and fruits than about grains...


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