# Price vs Value



## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I was recently at a friend's house at a gated community and the furnishings were... umm... expensive. But the funny thing was a table couldn't get wet. A dinner table, not a desk. Now since drinking goes along with eating you would think a super expensive table would be prepared to have drinks and gravy and whatnot spilled on it but not this one. Lord only knows how many thousands it cost but don't spill a drop!! It got me to thinking, how are your purchases made?? The most expensive? The cheapest? I have recently found myself at a crossroads. I really like the best value now, not the cheapest. Do I need the $2500 AR or the 800 one with money for ammo?? The brand new $40K truck or the $14K one with 75000 miles?? I constantly try to keep in mind that I need the best value, not the lowest price or the best item.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

We aim for quality and reliability but do not get excited about looks, prestige, or bells and whistles. If an 800 dollar rifle will do everything I want it to do under every conceivable condition in which I would use it then I wouldn't spend more for a different rifle. If, however, the cheaper rifle was going to fail when I needed it most it would be a bad investment even if it was only $50.00.

I'd rather have one reliable firearm than a closet full of guns I couldn't rely upon. (That's why I own a MAK-90 instead of an AR! ... Or I used to before that boating accident!) The same is true of vehicles, tools and most everything else we own.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Most times the best value is neither the most expensive nor the cheapest.

The only reason to buy a new machine is to have something that no one else used, otherwise a new truck or machine depreciates several thousand dollars the moment it rolls off the lot.


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

I agree , let someone else eat the depreciation .


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

I never buy the top of the line I alwasy go for the one just under it 9/10 they are the same except for one small minor detail and I usually save 20-25% off the price.


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## Prepper69 (Jan 25, 2013)

Most bang/reliable for my buck....I am always looking for a deal. 

Never buy a new truck....it is always used.

It is not about the money it is about how long will it last or how much work will I get out of it


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Prepper69 said:


> Most bang/reliable for my buck....I am always looking for a deal.
> 
> Never buy a new truck....it is always used.
> 
> It is not about the money it is about how long will it last or how much work will I get out of it


I don't disagree, but when I bought my truck, I was able to get it for less than people were offering used ones . I'll probably never see a deal like that again though.

This was in late 2008 when the dealers had over a years worth of inventory sitting on the lot because nobody was buying. They dropped 13k off the sticker price and currently 5 years and 60k miles later it's valued only 3k less than what I paid because selling prices have risen so much.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I never buy "state of the art" technology. I wait for the new electronics to come out then I buy the old stuff (I still don't have a smart phone).

When it comes to tools, I try to buy the best quality for the primary tools and for secondary tools I buy any brand. Secondary tools are the tools that I use for emergency kits (one kit in each vehicle).

I always buy new cars and trucks. Depreciation only matters if you plan on selling it. I buy new then take good care of it and then drive it till it goes to the scrap yard. I have only had 4 new vehicles and 3 of them I still drive now. Two of my vehicles are almost 20 years old. I plan on buying one more new truck and that should be the last I need for the rest of my life.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Tweto said:


> I never buy "state of the art" technology. I wait for the new electronics to come out then I buy the old stuff (I still don't have a smart phone).


Ditto. My flip phone is 8 years old and dumb as a rock. The only thing it knows how to do is make and receive calls and text. At one time it could take pictures but the camera gave up a couple years ago. People look at me like I'm from another planet when I use it
I have a friend that will only buy Snap-On tools. I use Craftsman. They're both guaranteed for life so why would I want to spend 30% more? I've had to replace 1 ratchet and it was the one I got in '76 when I bought my first set of tools

I've never purchased a new car. Always hated the idea of losing $5,000- $10,000 the minute it left the lot. I have a '94 Dodge diesel with 270,000 miles, a '94 Ford with 45,000 and an '81 GMC 1-ton with 160,000. AuntJoe has a '01 Focus with 170,000.

Take care of your stuff and it will take care of you.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

I consistantly meet people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing !


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

This is a lesson I've tried to get my kids to learn. Somehow when they were younger they just couldn't grasp the idea of taking care of their things. Could by why I would sell their toys instead of fighting with them to take care of them. The youngest learned the hardest lesson, when he came home from school one day to see his dirtbike and all it's accessories out at the curb with a for sale sign on it. 

All our veh's are paid for my 02 truck has 200k on it and I want a new diesel but don't know if I wanna pay for the depreciation..


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

smaj100 said:


> All our veh's are paid for my 02 truck has 200k on it and I want a new diesel but don't know if I wanna pay for the depreciation..


I bought my '94 Dodge in '98 for $17,000. It had 63,000 miles. Today, to get a 3/4T with heavy duty everything, a tow package and plow package, I'd be looking at between $40,000 and $50,000.  Never gonna happen!


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

It is sometimes hard to find heavy duty stuff used. The folks who buy it use it up. I buy new trucks and keep 'em forever. I figure the '07 GMC 2500 I have now will be my last truck. I only payed about $20K for it new but no one has had a hand on it but me.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

except for my dh's Harley, we own everything we have. DH has the tools to make most of our furniture and repair most of our things. our cars are at least 6 years old and we don't get rid of them until they are just about to die. then we sell them for a few bucks. I can make most of our clothes, I have done drapes, quilts, sheets, even my own wedding dress. our motto is it ain't broke til we can't fix it.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I guess it depends on what you consider heavy duty, semi's are a dime a dozen these days as a lot of the big companies are just using the depreciation and at x miles or x years they are sold. Same goes for other company vehicles.

Another great place is lease returns, or people who just can't pay their leases, have seen vehicles picked up for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of new with less than 100 000km and a couple years on them.

If you really want to talk value we have to keep track of the buying and selling prices of all machinery and vehicles on the farm for taxes. The accountant always figures in depreciation but if we ever sell anything we end up having to reverse it.
Every tractor we have bought has brought us more money when we sold it than what we paid, after decades of use! When you factor in inflation most of the time they are just holding their value but while they are being used. This is absolutely not true for new machinery, we buy some new because it is easier not because it is cost effective.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't know too many people who really need a $40,000 truck. The thing to remember about a purchase is whether or not the product is reliable and will last for years. I looked at some used cars today and found that they were a really good price but they all came out of rental car fleets. I never want to buy a rental car again. Too many of them are put through heck by both the renters and the maintenance people (or lack of maintenance). 

As for guns like the AR platform, most are okay. Shop around the internet for reviews of specific brands to see which ones are best. Stay away from the ones with added fins and flashers. Go for reliable over flash. 

The one caveat to all this is always look for American/US made products. The import stuff rarely measures up to the good stuff. Example is steel toe boots. You can go to Walmart and get some Chinese ones that may or may not fit and will wear out in no time or you can go with Red Wings (US Made) that fit your feet from minute one and wear like crazy. I had my last pair of Red Wings for seven years. I bought a Chinese made pair and they lasted for less than a year before the soles wore out. 

Quality is the key word in any purchase. Buy Quality and you do not have to do it again in six months. GB


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I try to buy American made even if I have to pay a bit more. You need to watch labels closely. Companies like Danner, Red Wing and New Balance that once were exclusively U.S. made now have a mix, some U.S. made and some foreign made.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Some redwings are made in China now 
I buy made in Canada (where I live), then made in USA, then even Mexico before china. Canada West Boots is an example of Value, not flashy but WELL MADE.
Some people will say, if the quality is the same who cares, well it isn't. Gloves used to last me 10 times as longs as they do now, I can't find any not made in China anymore, it has come to the point where I am restitching them myself before wearing them. Can get some fabric/synthetic gloves made in North America still and they are OK but not the best for me most of the time.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

GrinnanBarrett said:


> I don't know too many people who really need a $40,000 truck.


Many people who have trucks don't need them at all. And of those that actually need them, most don't need the horsepower and towing capacity they offer. How many people need that 350HP family sedan... or an SUV because they have 2 kids?

1/2 acre lawns with a 54in zero turn mower?
65 inch 3d TVs? 
500 channels with only a dozen useful ones
A new phone every as soon as the contract allows?

But then again, it's their money to spend. I have a few things that I definitely don't "need" but wanted enough to buy anyway.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Well, lets see again I am the odd ball out, maybe... The only vehicle we have that is brand new (at this time) is the Armada - yes it is loaded with every option, we bought it this year after trading a 2 year old Armada in (also fully loaded)... Yet, my wife's company gets a special incentive, and her status at the company gets her into an even higher incentive for Nissan and GM products... So our Armada cost was true invoice, $15,000 off MSRP or more.. That allows use to trade every two years cause her trade value was $3,000 over what we owed...

My CTSV - is a 2012, bought used with 1,000 miles, I saved $12,000 by buying used, plus it was pre-certified so I have a full 6 year 100k mile warranty on it.

The Grand Sport Vette was bought used 1 year old, had 5000 miles on it, and has extended warranty - got it for $42,000 - list is like $65,000 new for the 4LT option package. However, we are selling it this spring because we will be getting a c7 before winter... Why waste the money? It's more of a reward to ourselves - for making it through the last 3 years, paying off all debt but the car and house notes ($36,000 or so in a year), getting prepared for if SHTF. One thing I have learned opposite of my father, you can't take it all with you. Yes, he is still living and I am an only child with a living trust, but even without that, we have enough that my daughter will have a comfortable life off insurance and savings - plus if I die before my parents the trust goes to her and my wife... So why not splurge? 

But technology - I buy new immediate - to test so I can consult clients... For example, I would have bought windows 8 pro, but because we are a MS Gold partner I get for free for testing.. Had it on a laptop the day after it was released to manufacturing... I removed it after a week and went back to windows 7 - just how impressed I was.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

invision said:


> Well, lets see again I am the odd ball out, maybe... The only vehicle we have that is brand new is the Armada - yes it is loaded with every option, we bought it this year after trading a 2 year old Armada in (also fully loaded)... Yet, my wife's company gets a special incentive, and her status at the company gets her into an even higher incentive for Nissan and GM products... So our Armada cost was true invoice, $15,000 off MSRP or more.. That allows use to trade every two years cause her trade value was $3,000 over what we owed...
> 
> My CTSV - is a 2012, bought used with 1,000 miles, I saved $12,000 by buying used


I get a discount from them through my company as well as the family discount for my sister being the HR supervisor. It definitely helps. We supply GM as well, but I've never looked into exactly what the discount actually is.

The perk I want to take advantage of is that one of our divisions designs, fabricates and constructs light gage steel framed homes and buildings. We built one for Habitat for Humanity a few years ago and I've said if I ever build, it will be a steel framed home, but only if I still get the discount.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

It looks like the base C7 will be faster than the Z06 C6.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We have a very small income and a lot we want to do with it. We spend a lot of time chasing the best price on something. We need stuff that lasts and will do the job well, function comes first here. We try to make as much on farm as we can, we know it'll last and if not it's an easy fix. If we need 500 yards of fencing we'll buy seconds to save a few dollars or if we're broke we'll use second hand we've found at the rubbish tip. Vehicles are old, that's all we can afford and we spend a lot of time on repairs. 
If I had a larger income I'd still use a lot of old machinery and still shop around for quality and value. 
Technology we tend to buy last years at a much cheaper price, bought my DH a tablet for his birthday as his laptop died and it was the cheapest way to get the functions he uses. We don't buy a lot though, enough to have some internet access and make a phone call and that's about it. We do have a TV but rarely turn it on and it's certainly not the latest, lol. 
Sometimes we can't afford to buy the quality we'd like so we go for the best we can afford to get the job done. An example of this is our pressure canner, we'd like All American but can't afford one at the moment so I have Presto and a pantry full of canned everything. The All American may come one day but I can still get the job done with the Presto. Another is our lathe, a cheaper asian made but it does the job and we use it to make parts when needed, not all day everyday. 
We also worry about redundancy so like to have two or more of everything and that can sometimes influence how much we are willing to spend.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Funny thing about people and how they spend their money. Humans are not rational actors, and we all see 'value' in a different way. To your friends, they see value in an assumedly nice looking table thats not particularly functional. While that wouldnt make sense to most people, they are the ones paying for it, so its their decision to make and obviously they assign value to it. A piece of furniture that is non functional is not furniture; its art, a showpiece as it were.
This got me interested because I work in the furniture industry, our shop refinishes and reupholsters furniture, so I've pretty much seen it all. I read some of the "Millionaire next door" books, and his furniture bit stuck out for me. The author studies the spending habits of millionaires and his base conclusion was that the average millionaire (in actual wealth, so a mortgage/car loan counts against you) doesnt live in a huge house or drive the most expensive cars.
He also stated that they tend to buy more 'expensive' furniture because its made to last and over the long run its cheaper to spend more rather than buy something cheaper. At the time, we had been contracted to repair damaged goods from an extremely upscale furniture company, $5000 sofas and such. In this case he was completely wrong, their furniture was absolute junk. It was made the same way cheap stuff is made, but with a fancy name on it. The customers were hoodwinked by the fancy name, and the fact that the store was in a very rich area and based in NYC.
I will say that the long standing companies furniture (like Ethan Allan) is made well, but in my experience (I dont have rowdy kids breakin stuff) the cheap sofas are a better value. Yes, they are cheap, and cheaply made, but for the dollars spent its a much better purchase.
Funny, I grew up pretty well off, but our family was pretty frugal. A lot of my friends grew up the same way. For my friends that didnt, they are much more concerned with status symbols, and a lot more frivolous with their money.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Concerning buying a new truck and several postings saying that they are in the $40,000 dollar range. I have been pricing new trucks (Ford and GM) and the prices I'm getting are $27,000 to $33,000 the way I want it. The Ford Raptur is over 40, but it is top of the line. The 3/4 ton trucks also get that high also.

If I buy a truck with a sticker of $33,000 and then subtract the dealer and manufactures discounts it gets the price down to about $27,000 to $28,000. When I see that even 10 year old trucks with 80,000 miles on it have sticker prices of $15,000 and no warranty or discounts the new trucks start looking pretty good. My guess is that a new truck that sales for $27,000 now will be worth about that much in 10 years because of inflation.

BTW the most valuable vehicle I own is the oldest. My 71 Ford Bronco (purchase for $2500 in 1975) now has a blue book average condition price of $12,500 now. It blows my mind!


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> It looks like the base C7 will be faster than the Z06 C6.


Yes and the C6 coup was faster than the C5 z06. My (former) 2009 C6 3LT coup had 550hp under the hood... 165mph in all 4 corners at the Atlanta Motor Speedway and 185 down the straight aways.... With my wife driving her 2008 3LT coup, was stock except for a dyno and a mass air intake from K&N - she was at 125 in the corners and 145 in the straights... I blew the doors off a z06 and the ZR1 that was out there with us... Drive them hard, drive them fast...


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> Funny thing about people and how they spend their money. Humans are not rational actors, and we all see 'value' in a different way. To your friends, they see value in an assumedly nice looking table thats not particularly functional. While that wouldnt make sense to most people, they are the ones paying for it, so its their decision to make and obviously they assign value to it. A piece of furniture that is non functional is not furniture; its art, a showpiece as it were.
> This got me interested because I work in the furniture industry, our shop refinishes and reupholsters furniture, so I've pretty much seen it all. I read some of the "Millionaire next door" books, and his furniture bit stuck out for me. The author studies the spending habits of millionaires and his base conclusion was that the average millionaire (in actual wealth, so a mortgage/car loan counts against you) doesnt live in a huge house or drive the most expensive cars.
> He also stated that they tend to buy more 'expensive' furniture because its made to last and over the long run its cheaper to spend more rather than buy something cheaper. At the time, we had been contracted to repair damaged goods from an extremely upscale furniture company, $5000 sofas and such. In this case he was completely wrong, their furniture was absolute junk. It was made the same way cheap stuff is made, but with a fancy name on it. The customers were hoodwinked by the fancy name, and the fact that the store was in a very rich area and based in NYC.
> I will say that the long standing companies furniture (like Ethan Allan) is made well, but in my experience (I dont have rowdy kids breakin stuff) the cheap sofas are a better value. Yes, they are cheap, and cheaply made, but for the dollars spent its a much better purchase.
> Funny, I grew up pretty well off, but our family was pretty frugal. A lot of my friends grew up the same way. For my friends that didnt, they are much more concerned with status symbols, and a lot more frivolous with their money.


I agree with you - if I look at my parents versus my lifestyle it is completely opposite. I think it also has to do with the era of the person you are talking about. When I grew up, we were well off, my dad owned over 50 apartment units - single houses, duplexes, quads and 8 unit dwellings, he owned a sign company that had multiple employees, plus both parents we teachers. I remember seeing an IRS form when I was around 16, the interest on his investments was over $50,000 and that was late 80s.. At this time frame he would get upset when mom bought steak, when hamburger was cheaper... I remember all of the times where my mom went behind my dad to buy something special... Growing up with a miser, I was like I see how hard he worked, I knew the money was there, my dad did have multiple Vettes at one time (that was his one concession, he loves corvettes)... However, in my mind all that work and very little "rewards" for all that work is a waste in a way... When I pushed myself as hard as I have, I consider certain purchases as "justification" for the efforts... I know this may not make sense, the debt we have is house and cars, we got rid of all other debt in 2008-2009, but even today if we want something we get it... Typically it is an no interest loan for 12 months if it is a large item, or we just pay it off as quick as possible if interest...It is just a mindset, I guess...


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

I agree it's a mindset.... I currently work overseas for a private contractor, this is after spending 20years in the army. I do this not because I want to but because it is a means to an end. We are finally building our dream/retirement home and farm. It's allowed us to begin prepping in earnest and get ready to live our lives the way we want.

While it's not without hardship being away from my family having a huge honey do list when I come home for my quick trips (usually a week or so) but it is something my wife and I decided that the pro's out weight the cons. I don't complain, belly ache, or whine about it we just do it.

We are debt free, except the new house and 110 acres. :2thumb:

We can honestly say that we are more comfortable and happy even with the separation than we ever were while I was still in the army.


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