# food rotation



## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I rotated my can goods the last two days and found some out of date...some go back to 010 ( this is when I first started prepping and didnt pay attention to dates)..my question is..how far out of date are these canned goods still good?..Ive heard tell of ppl eating canned goods a few yrs out of date..I also heard you can thump on the lid and the sound you get back will tell if its any good or not..anyone?


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

If they don't hiss when opened, look and smell good, than they should be good. When I was in the Guard we cooked some pretty old canned goods and all of it was still good. 

Does anybody know about flour? I cooked and eat flour 2 yrs past it's use by date. I didn't know it until my wife pointed out the date. It looked and felt normal. What does bad flour look like?


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

Don't know about flour because, being from the South, we keep our extra flour in the freezer. 
But last night on "America Eats" (History Channel) they had a can of food, (pardon my "Old Timers" I have forgotten what was in it) but it was 114 years old. They opened it and fed it to rats, the rats were fine after eating it. 
Now, I don't suggest keeping canned food that long....but you can usually tell if it has spoiled. Remember I said "USUALLY".


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

That stuff was some sorta beef.

Ya can look at the can to, some stuff what has spoiled will swell up the can.

As fer flour, I can't say I know what bad flour would look like. I got a bunch in vac bags, in mylar bags an then a bucket an I beleive LDS says it should keep nigh onta 20 years if I'm rememberin right.

A can that expired in 2010 sure wouldn't bother me none long as it been stored decent. Heck, I find some stuff on a country store shelf still fer sale from then!


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

Thank you Old Coot, I couldn't remember. 

I think flour just wouldn't perform as well as fresh, I've had cakes that the texture wasn't just right and I had used old refrigerated flour.


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## carolexan (Dec 28, 2010)

When I did inventory I found 20 cans of tuna 2 yrs past the sell by date. I opened a couple of cans and the tuna smelled like the metal can. I rinsed it and fed to my cats. They love it!


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## BobR1 (Jan 13, 2011)

*Flour:* We had some Y2K flour that we just opened. It was useable in a pinch, but had a off taste when we cooked with it. It had been Nitrogen packed. Flour is not that high, I dumped it, and restocked.

*White Rice:* We are using Y2K white rice and it tastes just fine. No issues at all. Working on using it up pretty quickly to restock with fresh though.

*Beans:* Still working on the last of the Y2K Red and Brown Beans. Again they are just fine.

*Noodles:* we are still finishing up some flat twised noodles from Y2K, and they are still good.

*Ramon Noodles:* went south at some point.

The shelf life on some of this stuff was way past what I would have expected. We have some friends who bought up a families Y2K stock stockpile a while back for almost nothing. I think they paid about what the containers it was stored in was worth. I do not think they have pitched anything so far. I know they are using rice that is ok, not sure what else. I will have to ask when I see them next week.

On caned foods we try and mark the top with the month and year we purchesed it with a majic marker, and rotate the new to the back.

We cooked a couple cakes in the last month due to the fact the expired date was coming up quick on the cake mix.

Store what you eat & eat what you store. Good Advice


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I know it's been mentioned many many times in this forum, but if you're going to store flour for an extended period, you're better off storing the grain/wheat berries & just mill your own flour. :beercheer:


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

as long as the can integrity is good (no swelling, hissing off odor) they should be good for years past the expiration date. I choose to eat them till 5 years past. I understand that after that they loose about 10% of their nutritional value.
Flour - by packing in a vacuum seal, you mihgt (MIGHT) get flour to go 5 years, max. . I have some to cycle through before I start on wheat (which lasts 30 yrs in "berry" form)


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks Herbal..thats the most definite answer I have got..since 98% of my out of date food is about 5 months out of date or less..I was thinking if the can wasnt "swollen" it should be ok..as far as opening the can and smelling of it..Ive opened some new cans and didnt particularly like the smell or sight of its contents..maybe my "smeller" was off or something..because they tasted ok


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## Mobster (Dec 27, 2010)

As an aside didn't someone once find some well sealed (in a waxed sealed jar) and still viable seeds in an Egyptian tomb? Most 'use by' type dates err, for the most part, on the safe side. I'm sure some here will also have useful how to cook etc foods that MIGHT be past their date for use in emergencies.


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## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

Rev. Saito-The Beans From Egypt

I found this on short article about the tomb seeds on line. Pretty amazing stuff. Personally I have two brown thumbs but I keep trying. I'm going to give peppers, beans and lettuce in containers a shot this year. 
Moose


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## Mobster (Dec 27, 2010)

Again, as per any optimally set up situation (issues of cash being one reason why not) not only does freeze drying etc come into play, but also the area the said items are stored. So canned goods, kept chilled in what ought to be an arid / dry enviroment would be close to the best. If, by some miricle, it was a partial vucumn to boot... well that would be about perfect. Different containers and foods would require different needs. 

I sell, via an online business based here in the UK, protein powders. They can be retested and re ceertified as good every two years and providing bacterial counts in the sample are low, moisture very low and the protein content is as scheduled they are good to go again and again. In reality the longer dated stuff is usually found not with suppliers but at a retail customers end. Then you'll see posts on forums 'is this still ok?'. Hell, I wanna shift and sell, shift and sell. Not sit on it for months (still have a few months worth in my warehouse. If the SHTF I'd be good to go ha ha


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

The_Blob said:


> I know it's been mentioned many many times in this forum, but if you're going to store flour for an extended period, you're better off storing the grain/wheat berries & just mill your own flour. :beercheer:


I have plenty of wheat berries, but I has asking what does old or bad flour look, smell or taste like. It's easy to spot bad milk. I just wanted to know if it's dangerous and how you can tell if it's too old. The bag in question was in the back of the closet and it's been forgot about since I started learning to make flour and cook from scratch. We'll probably never buy another bag, but I hate to toss perfectly good stuff.


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Well from what I have read on the net over the last 90 minutes on food storage boils down not so much to best buy dates but to acidity in the foods..tomato being high in acidity shouldnt be kept for more than 12 months..kinda of the same with fruits..peas and corn etc..which is alot less in acidity can be stored up to 3-5 yrs..as Herbal pointed out the food loses nutritional value as times goes by...one article I read was about a elderly woman who has eaten canned foods up to 15 yrs old with no ill effects
..on the best buy dates one has to give time from the food being canned and delivered to the store which could be from days to even months..this we dont know but has to be figured in..but apparently if the can of food isnt dented, rusted or swollen it may be safe to eat yrs down the road..just less to no nutrition in it..I dont really know why a dent in the can would hurt it as several cans of food at the dollar store I go to has them..worse case scenario if you eat bad food is you get a case of food poisening


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Dry Food Study One
A scientific study conducted at Brigham Young University on the shelf life of a variety of different dry foods can be read at both of the following links:
http://ce.byu.edu/cw/womensconference/archive/2005/sharing_stations/pdf/52a.pdf
New Findings for Longer-Term Food Storage
A brief summary of the above web site information shows the following estimated shelf life per dry food item:
*Over 30 years for wheat and white rice.
30 years for pinto beans, macaroni, rolled oats, and potato flakes.
20 years for powdered milk.*

All dry food items should be stored in airtight moisture proof containers at a temperature between 40ºF to 70°F.
Salt, baking soda, and granulated sugar still in their original containers have no known shelf life limit if properly stored.
In the study, researchers taste-tested rolled oats that had been stored in sealed containers for 28 years. Three-fourths of tasters considered the oats acceptable to eat in an emergency.


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks JJ..great articles..guess I will get more freeze dried foods..buy them,store them ..and forget about them, And if I never have to use them I can leave them in my Will


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

don't underestimate the power of botulism to *kill* you... it can be _very_ bad news! 

metal canned food guidelines regarding acidity seem to be the opposite when it comes to home canning in glass jars :scratch :dunno:


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Blob..as with any internet info..its hard to find any two articles on a subject that agrees with each other 100%..which results in confusion at least to me ..according to what I read..anything canned in glass has a 6 month advantage...also anything in a can will eventually become one with the can more or less..but I imagine that would take along time..after reading all that info on canned goods..Im still not sure on anything...Im thinking on getting some freeze dried food as it has an apparent advantage over dehydrated ,,dehydrated..the moisture is removed by heat, all but 1-2%..that small amount can ruin food after awhile...freeze dried..moisture is removed by injecting a liquid nitrogen solution that 'forces" all the moisture out..but either one seems would take alot of water..but freeze dried you can eat as is,,I bought some banana chips at my dollar store and they tasted ok..off brand stuff but several freeze dried fruits for 1.50 a package..normally I would have cleaned the shelves of it but something doesnt seem right to me it being that cheap


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I bought some canned goods 2 nights ago but cked the dates before buying..I see some had 2013-2014..not saying in some of these couldnt be bad..more for peace of mind than anything else..I will ck the date on every article of food I buy from now on


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## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

nj_m715 said:


> I have plenty of wheat berries, but I has asking what does old or bad flour look, smell or taste like. It's easy to spot bad milk. I just wanted to know if it's dangerous and how you can tell if it's too old. The bag in question was in the back of the closet and it's been forgot about since I started learning to make flour and cook from scratch. We'll probably never buy another bag, but I hate to toss perfectly good stuff.


Good morning,
I have limited experience with old flour. Once I was able to tell I shouldn't use it because the flour was moving when I opened the bag. It had little mealy bugs in it, went straight out of the house to the trash. 

In December 2010 I tried making a small loaf of bread with some flour that was sort of close to the package expiration, September 2011. While it worked and tasted fine it didn't rise as much I expected. Everything else in the loaf was fresh except the flour. I prefer to blame the flour instead of the cook. 

Take it easy,
Moose


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Types of dates
• Sell by Used primarily so the retailer will know when to pull the product from the shelf. Although you should buy the product before the "sell by" date, it will still be edible beyond this date as long as it was stored properly. For example, milk might lose quality after the "sell by" date, but it should still be good 7 days past the date.

• Best before Self explanatory. The product will be at its peak quality and taste until this date. "Best before" has nothing to do with the safety of the product and you do not need to purchase the product by this date.

• Use by According to the manufacturer of the product, this is the last date that the product will be at peak quality. Once again, it has nothing to do with safety.

• Expiration The last date the product should be consumed. It's the manufacturer's way of saying, "use past this date and you're on your own."

Nothing Simple about Food Dating, Expiration Dates or 'Use-By' Dates


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

While everyone else has covered everything pretty well I can tell you that flour that is old will have a different taste and if used "straight" will produce a heavier crumb than you can expect from "fresh" flour.

I recently opened some flour I had had stored (nothing special done, just in the pantry ... dark, cool and low humidity) for 3 years and made some bread. Tasted okay but different than what we were used to. Did not rise as well.

I hate throwing stuff out so the next bread I made I mixed the old flour with some new flour 50/50. Hubby (who is particular) didn't notice and I thought it was fine so I went ahead and just mixed the old with new until it was used up.

This year I want to get a grain mill and some wheat berries and grind my own. For two reasons ... ease of long-term storage is one of those reasons.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks all. I guess that about covers it. I just don't want to put the family in the sick bay from food poisoning. I can live with off-taste or low rise, but not tossing cookies


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## MrsSellaneous (Apr 13, 2011)

azurevirus said:


> I rotated my can goods the last two days and found some out of date...some go back to 010 ( this is when I first started prepping and didnt pay attention to dates)..my question is..how far out of date are these canned goods still good?..Ive heard tell of ppl eating canned goods a few yrs out of date..I also heard you can thump on the lid and the sound you get back will tell if its any good or not..anyone?


I wasted a lot of the storage I had previously. I love the Food Rotation Systems from shelf Reliance and their Cansolidators. They save a lot of hassle and they automatically rotate the food for you. Order them at a discount here: Shop Shelf Reliance

Marie Adams
[email protected]


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

azurevirus said:


> Well from what I have read on the net over the last 90 minutes on food storage boils down not so much to best buy dates but to acidity in the foods..tomato being high in acidity shouldnt be kept for more than 12 months..kinda of the same with fruits..peas and corn etc..which is alot less in acidity can be stored up to 3-5 yrs..as Herbal pointed out the food loses nutritional value as times goes by...one article I read was about a elderly woman who has eaten canned foods up to 15 yrs old with no ill effects
> ..on the best buy dates one has to give time from the food being canned and delivered to the store which could be from days to even months..this we dont know but has to be figured in..but apparently if the can of food isnt dented, rusted or swollen it may be safe to eat yrs down the road..just less to no nutrition in it..I dont really know why a dent in the can would hurt it as several cans of food at the dollar store I go to has them..worse case scenario if you eat bad food is you get a case of food poisening


FYI, when I worked for Carnation in the 80s we used to keep canned tomato products for 3 years at 72º and 1 year at 100º. There was a lab where different kinds of food products were stored. Every so often we opened cans to see how much deterioration there was with the coating on the can.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

~~~tomato being high in acidity shouldnt be kept for more than 12 months..~~~

I hope the data doesn't include home canned tomatoes and tomato juice....while going to school, dh made a garden, with a huge row of tomatoes...so, every 'other' day (not class day), I'd can tomatoes or juice.
That was in 1982.....I used the last jar about 2000.
I even packed them from the rental property where the garden was to three more houses before using them!!!

Same for green beans...had some home canned for about 15 years...oops, have 3 jars in the pantry that must be over 15 years old.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

As a baker I have found that really fresh flour is good for pies and pastries and cakes but really crappy for breads-give it too much spring and too tight a gluten strands-poor rising and loft. If you must use an older flour up on biscuits for cakes-just add another 1/2 teaspoon of baking powder to your recipe per cup-that helps with the poor rising.
6 months to 2 years old flour and I get great bread, light, rises properly no off flavors.. I usually date all my stuff(always did) and try to get enuf flour "aging" for my breads and pizza and pita.. etc...

But-Whole wheat flour is a whole different critter-it will go rancid and quickly- I store mine in the freezer only taking the amount out that is needed that week.. I prefer to grind it from berries now... Sure I do keep about 5lbs pre-ground good WW on hand from the store but have berries on back up.

All flours will take up flavors if stored by strong smelling stuff... found that out when an onion ended up in the drawer with the flour containers(still no clue how that onion ended up in there-must have just got in by itself) Lucky for me the flour container needed to be filled and we only made one loaf that tasted like onions, not a bad thing and we liked it but just think if I had made brownies or cookies! lol


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## ReadyMom (Feb 25, 2011)

*RE Flour:* From everything that I have read, flour WILL look the same, but the nutritional value decreases over time. My plan is to keep the flour I have stored in my buckets, but also have wheat berries on hand. I'm thinking I can grind fresh flour and mix some of the 'old' flour to stretch it.

*Re Ramen Noodles:* We're eating packages that have to be several years old, and they still seem to be fine. They are stored in a cool dark place. That may have something to do with the extended shelf life.


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