# Into the abyss



## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

So we're about a month away from hurtling off the fiscal cliff ... but is that really such a bad thing?

The way I see it, the politicians will never have the [email protected] to cut spending otherwise. There will be a lot of innocent bystanders affected, but better we find out _now_ how bad things could be _before_ we become Greece x 100.

Watcha think?


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

This is another in a long list of manufactured crisis.
The politicians will NOT do what needs to be done.
They will not reduce spending enough to actually help and they will raise taxes.
Both sides are playing the same game. Make it look like an emergency and tell the people that they had no choice when all the time they are getting exactly what they wanted in the first place.
More of our money.
They are just kicking the debt down the road.
The crash will be huge and it can not be stopped, just postponed until the current crop of crooks are retired on our dime.


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## LowJoe73 (Nov 12, 2012)

I think they are doing it in purpose. They want the economy to crash so they can start a new world currency.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I wish they would just let it crash now. Its going to sometime anyway. Congress is 90% dirt bags(I said only 90% just in case some of you had relatives in there).


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## Szumi (Mar 10, 2012)

Decades ago when I had a paper route, I could make more in interest on the 50 dollars in my savings account than I can make on 20K now. 

We have been in the abyss for a while now.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

PrepN4Good said:


> So we're about a month away from hurtling off the fiscal cliff ... but is that really such a bad thing?
> 
> The way I see it, the politicians will never have the [email protected] to cut spending otherwise. There will be a lot of innocent bystanders affected, but better we find out _now_ how bad things could be _before_ we become Greece x 100.
> 
> Watcha think?


It's going to be a disaster because there's not going to be any real spending cuts. It's all going to be tax increases and they'll slow the economy down even further.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Not only that but the economic growth projections will be idiotically optimistic. They'll assume that raising taxes on the highest income people will have no effect on their economic activity. Most economic growth comes from small businesses. They won't expand if the taxes are too high.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

You should all go buy US savings bonds now. I believe the interest rate is up to .2%.


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## Attila (Jan 30, 2011)

LowJoe73 said:


> I think they are doing it in purpose. They want the economy to crash so they can start a new world currency.


That is a possibility, however, I think that the economic collapse of the US will start a domino effect throughout the world, and it will be too much of a mess for anyone to sort out. I think of it as stepping into a new dark age. Age old hatreds will be acted on; the Bosnian conflict was under the surface for decades, but once the commie heel was lifted ethnic hatred and resentments lead to turmoil.

The Middle East will explode; hatred of Israel coupled with the Sunni and Shiite religious animosities will also add to violent mix. Several billion starving Chinese will be more than the Red Chinese will be able to contend with. Large muhammadan populations in Western Europe will become violent when the government teat is shut off. There will be violent counter the European muhammadans, (especially with in Germany, but the French have about reached the end of their rope with the mussies as well).

Here at home, the same will be played out. Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, and other metro areas will also burn when the free money flowing from the government pipeline slows then stops. Think about how high racial tensions are now; that too will be thrown into the mix.

World wide, the same situation will be played out. There will of course be variations, but in the end violence will mark the demise. We are about to enter a new dark age. Even if governments do arise out of the ashes of civilization, I think most will be military dictatorships, or theocracies like in Iran (assuming Iran isn't turned into a giant sheet of glass).

Pretty bleak future.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

BillS said:


> It's going to be a disaster because there's not going to be any real spending cuts. It's all going to be tax increases and they'll slow the economy down even further.


Well, that's my fear, if the past is any indication. Spending cuts are always _promised_ but never actually occur. Since I thought these cuts would be "automatic", I guess I was being overly optimistic. :brickwall:


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

PrepN4Good said:


> Well, that's my fear, if the past is any indication. Spending cuts are always _promised_ but never actually occur. Since I thought these cuts would be "automatic", I guess I was being overly optimistic. :brickwall:


Not only do cuts never happen, the rate of spending goes up about the same amount each and every year.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

partdeux said:


> Not only do cuts never happen, the rate of spending goes up about the same amount each and every year.


Or a 3% spending cut is declared because the increase in spending was cut from 13% to 10%.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

So does anyone know - can this "fiscal cliff" law allow the tax increases to go into effect without the spending cuts? Being the Born Pessimist that I am, I can certainly envision my taxes going up in January, but then some fancy footwork being done to allow the spending to continue on & on & on... :gaah:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

The way I see it, the only way to get out of this mess is to raise taxes and put a FREEZE on spending. It will still take years.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Clarice said:


> The way I see it, the only way to get out of this mess is to raise taxes and put a FREEZE on spending. It will still take years.


Good luck with that


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

PrepN4Good said:


> So does anyone know - can this "fiscal cliff" law allow the tax increases to go into effect without the spending cuts? Being the Born Pessimist that I am, I can certainly envision my taxes going up in January, but then some fancy footwork being done to allow the spending to continue on & on & on... :gaah:


Spending will go on, already talking about having to raise the debt ceiling again too.... making debt to pay debt... the new American way of life


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## VAP55 (Jul 8, 2012)

So wouldn't raising the debt ceiling defeat the purpose of raising taxes?


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

Maybe I'm just overly tired today, but I find this all so bloody discouraging that I'm on the verge of simply no longer caring one way or the other. We're going off the cliff sooner or later anyway; what's the difference with another month or another year...? (I know, I know, people need more time to prep, but it'll never be enough anyway, so...) :dunno:


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

PrepN4Good said:


> Maybe I'm just overly tired today, but I find this all so bloody discouraging that I'm on the verge of simply no longer caring one way or the other.


You're not alone.


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## squshnut (Sep 5, 2011)

Truth is it happened in 2008. Politicians are just foolin us, saying it hasn't happened yet. that way when things don't get any worse they can say they fixed it.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Did you see that last year the Federal Reserve bought 61% of the US debt. And I have no doubts that they will buy even more this year. When no one will lend you money, you just have to print more. = :shtf2:

http://www.moneynews.com/Headline/fed-debt-Treasury/2012/03/28/id/434106


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

BillS said:


> Or a 3% spending cut is declared because the increase in spending was cut from 13% to 10%.


Its almost funny how they report it this way, aint it?



PrepN4Good said:


> So does anyone know - can this "fiscal cliff" law allow the tax increases to go into effect without the spending cuts? Being the Born Pessimist that I am, I can certainly envision my taxes going up in January, but then some fancy footwork being done to allow the spending to continue on & on & on... :gaah:


Seems possible. I think 'revenue enhancements' are much more likely than spending cuts.
This whole discussion is a farce anyway. They created this whole controversy in the first place. I cant really think of a reason for it, because they knew it would come up now, and what could it accomplish? Did they really think that this would fly? They'll end up passing some half baked scheme to keep the charade going, raise the debt limit, keep printing etc. I cant imagine they would do either one, raise taxes or cut spending, they could easily just put the whole thing off and act like it never happened while putting some positive spin on it or blame the other side to keep us divided.



PrepN4Good said:


> Maybe I'm just overly tired today, but I find this all so bloody discouraging that I'm on the verge of simply no longer caring one way or the other.


Thats probably best for your well being also.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

hiwall said: "Did you see that last year the Federal Reserve bought 61% of the US debt."

AAACK!!  The last I saw it was about 40%. OMG. It's getting deep now, huh? 

Thanks for telling us. I guess.... 

Won't be long until they are "monetizing" it all, looks like. I don't see anybody clamoring to buy 30 year bonds just now. When NOBODY else will buy US Treasuries, we have a BIG problem, IMHO. All the "sterilizing" shenanigans will melt away and we have NADA backing the buck. Short trip to worthless from there, or am I wrong? 

I have been amazed at how long they have been able to keep kicking the can so far. But, myself and a buddy thought that back when we worked for General Motors in the mid-1970's that they would be bankrupt in a year or two. They drug it out for 30 years!! Better to leave the sinking ship early, though. 

I REALLY wish I wasn't so old and broken down with this facing us all. I dunno, maybe being old will shorten the time of suffering?


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