# Starting a solar electric system in Canada



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I am looking for some reputable solar component suppliers in Alberta, the only one that I know of wants to sell a complete system. I would rather "build my own, so that I know how to fix it.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

calling "cowboyhermit"...


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> I am looking for some reputable solar component suppliers in Alberta, the only one that I know of wants to sell a complete system. I would rather "build my own, so that I know how to fix it.


Call me at home tonight if you have a moment .... I have some info on some solar companies that I gathered at the HomeShow in Calgary last weekend - business cards, info-pamphlets and such.

If you don't call - no worries - try some of these links.

http://www.calgaryhgs.com/CHS/ExhibitorList.aspx
http://www.calgaryhgs.com/CHS/ExhibitorList.aspx?taxonomy=UtilityCompanies

http://www.skyfireenergy.com/

http://www.vivint.ca/en/


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I have personally bought from these guys in your neck of the woods, very no frills back of a warehouse style location but very reasonable prices. Solar panels have been extremely overpriced at the retail level in Canada in the past so most of our large purchases were direct from distributor (pallets). For inverters/controllers and other stuff online is often a better bet.

http://solarwholesaler.ca/product-category/solar-panels/

They have sales from time to time but as you can see they have some down to that $1/watt range. Usually that is without bracket and hardware and some don't have much of a junction box (pre-wired) but that isn't much of a disadvantage imo.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

they are a lot cheaper than retail, I guess I expect it to be cheaper than it is :brickwall: other than lighting the price is hard to get around even at wholesale.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

What kind of system are you looking at setting up, if you don't mind saying?


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Ok now I know if we went totally solar we would have to really gentle down even more, but our electricity bill says our peak monthly use is 800 kwhrs(under $200.00/mo) so How far off are my calculations A 4 KW system should make 32 kwhrs on a sunny day with a tracker, x 30days = 960, (but every day isn't sunny) and the kit is $22 000.00 on sale $22K /$200.00= 9.1 years

I guess not such a bad investment if you aren't already hooked to the grid (assuming the grid still works)


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It is a LOT easier to justify if you are facing having to install grid power.

There are lots of ways to reduce the load on a solar system. Especially in our part of the world sizing a system for max load is tough because it is often at the time of year when there is the least amount of sun. If you are willing to incorporate a generator to top off the batts and run some heavy loads at that time it can really cut the size of system. Switching some things over to propane/nat. gas/wood can also take off some big demands. And of course all the typical energy efficiency stuff.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

It would pay back pretty quick on a new install situation. I do need to build a small system, just in case. I would like to be able to power at least one of the wells for sure.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> I would like to be able to power at least one of the wells for sure.


How deep is your shallowest one?

Have you read this:
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_waterpumping.html ?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

What am I talking about... you need one of these!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> What kind of system are you looking at setting up, if you don't mind saying?


Sorry I misses this post earlier, we must have posted about the same time, I just want to build a small battery charging system for now, We have a lot of old machinery, and it would be handy to just put a solar charger on one at a time to keep the batteries up in the off season.

Another handy use would be to run a drill for building barb wire fence braces, 
A generator works, but starting it for drilling 2 holes at a time is kind of annoying, and I could do without the noise.

And I would like to be able to run a 1/2 hp 220v submersible, That of course would require a bigger system.

Basicly I just want to get stared, I love our solar fence energizer, it just works, no changing batteries, charging batteries etc. just hook it up.

@ LincTex the wind mill is an excellent set up but we either get very brisk chinook winds that would over speed the fan or dead calm for 80% of the time, it is pretty rare to get a good waterpumping breeze in this part of the country, Lots of functional wind mills have been take down around here because of the erratic wind behavior


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I really got to love solar on the farm with those little 1W ish panels that are a dime a dozen now but used to be $40 a pop. Slap one on a 12V fencer and the battery never goes dead. I agree the actual solar fencers are fantastic though a bit overpriced for the tiny battery and solar panel. I still throw them on machinery that will be sitting for a long time (combines, 4wd tractor) if I don't feel like hauling the batteries out. They don't need a controller which is a plus but they will take months to charge a battery that is already depleted.

I bought a few of the 100W panels from the link provided for similar purposes to what you mention, they are somewhat portable while still having a decent $/W. You can even mount the controller to the back of the panel if not too hot. IMO it is worth getting a quality charge controller that is larger than you need but the thing I have found with solar on the farm is that parts rarely go to waste. I had some cheap small controllers that ended up being replaced with larger ones it seemed like a waste but within a month I found uses for the cheapo units and they are still in use.

The 220V pumps definitely up the system requirements, especially the inverter. With a 110V pump things are a lot easier, with a dc submersible diaphragm pump requirements are extremely low but it isn't always easy to adjust things that much.

I have an 3000W inverter and a generator on the "service truck" for running power tools and such, I loathe to start the generator these days, inverter always "starts", is silent, no exaust or heat to worry about, etc.

ETA while the solar fencers are a bit overpriced for the components provided, most other solar farm stuff is insanely overpriced; pumps, electric gate openers etc are marked up beyond belief.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> Another handy use would be to run a drill for building barb wire fence braces,
> A generator works, but starting it for drilling 2 holes at a time is kind of annoying, and I could do without the noise.


All you need for that is a good quality 12V to 14.4 volt cordless drill, some wires and a car battery. Even a motorcycle battery works really well when you need to haul it on foot to remote locations. Use an AGM sealed battery and make a hip holster for it 

Around here, used small solar panels are cheap enough that building a portable battery charger is really inexpensive. I see used Harbor Freight systems for sale pretty regularly. Just one panel does pretty well for that application.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I should have been more specific, the holes a 2'' x 2'' with a forstner bit, it makes my 5/8 electric drill sweat.

but cording a 12 -14 volt drill to a battery is a good plan.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

So here is my plan to star with, I buy a 250 W RV kit :http://solarwholesaler.ca/shop/250-...th-mppt-charge-controller-starting-at-546-89/ 
Keep in mind this is in Alberta and I can just go pick this up at the ware house (thanks CowboyHermit) 
I fab up a skid that fits in our ATV tilt trailer that will hold a bunch of Group 31 batteries (not the best batteries for solar, but I have a bunch in machines & trucks so ..) and an inverter, Here come the money spending.... I need to do more research, it may be cheaper to change a well pump to 110V than to buy a 220V inverter.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> I should have been more specific, the holes a 2'' x 2'' with a forstner bit, it makes my 5/8 electric drill sweat.


Ouch, yes you need a big inverter. What RPM is the drill you use?



Tirediron said:


> but cording a 12 -14 volt drill to a battery is a good plan.


They ARE Handy!!



Tirediron said:


> I fab up a skid that fits in our ATV tilt trailer that will hold a bunch of Group 31 batteries


Get some 20 foot jumper cables to attach your big battery pack to tour "seldom used equipment" and you can charge you batteries in just an hour easily.



Tirediron said:


> and an inverter, ... it may be cheaper to change a well pump to 110V than to buy a 220V inverter.


220 inverters are extremely common... in 50Hz!!! 
I don't see 60Hz ones very often.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Is there a way to phase 2 110 v inverters to power the legs or would that be more hassle than it is worth??(upon a bit more research, I see that some of the outback units are designed for this)


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Brand-New-15...er-with-USB-Car-charger-caravan-/181158140026

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/24volt-GSL-T...-to-240VAC-600w-RMS-1250W-surge-/161073200489

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/AIMS-7000-WA...IAL-MODIFIED-SINE-WAVE-INVERTER-/220872597156


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Looks to me like that is a good setup, price not bad considering it includes the MC4's, I often don't use them but they make for a clean setup. Charge controller is a MPPT so that's sweet, is going to be about maxed out with that panel but should work great.

The well pump is often a sticky problem which is ironic because solar works great for pumping water, it is just one of those design vs. retrofit issues. For the most part I have found swapping the pump to be the easiest solution but obviously it can feel like throwing money down the drain. After sanitizing you can always repurpose the 220V pump to another well but for most people that will not be especially useful.

I have also seen transformers used for the purpose but I don't have a ton of experience with them, something like this;

http://www.amazon.ca/LiteFuze-2000-Voltage-Converter-Transformer/dp/B002IU36J2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394469739&sr=8-1&keywords=120+240+transformer

maybe someone has more knowledge of these types of units.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I just remembered that I have a well that needs a pump anyway, so I can use the 220 pump there and put a 110 pump in the one I was thinking of backing with solar, Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Does anybody have any experience with invert it 
http://solarwholesaler.ca/product-category/inverters/pure-sine-inverters/ 
inverters?? the price is pretty nice.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> I just remembered that I have a well that needs a pump anyway, so I can use the 220 pump there and put a 110 pump in the one I was thinking of backing with solar, Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner. Does anybody have any experience with invert it
> http://solarwholesaler.ca/product-category/inverters/pure-sine-inverters/
> inverters?? the price is pretty nice.


Those really do look interesting for the price and features, no experience though.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I can't help but think they all come from " People's Democratic Inverter Works #24 " or some other aptly named factory.


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