# Adventures In Knife Making



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

For the past several weeks (or has it actually been months) I have jumped headlong into the art of knife making. I will detail what I learned and what I did in word and pictures below. I hope this reaches other folks interested in doing just what I did -- hopefully pulling everything together into one very basic tutorial.

I scoured the internet and got information from folks who no doubt know much more than I do but I had a hard time finding it all in one place. Lets start at the beginning:

I had one heck of a time locating steel at a decent price. Of course you can make knives out of all kinds of steel but I wanted something that would be fairly easy to work with and fairly easy to heat treat but also end up with a good knife. I also didnt want to spend much but I didnt have much in the way of scrap metal laying around the house. I started out buying a piece of cheap steel at the local Home Depot. I realized this was not going to make a good knife but I learned a lot about shaping metal so it was worth the effort.

Later I finally settled on buying some O-1 tool steel from OnlineMetals.com. I got a 3' x 3" x 3/16" piece of precision ground tool steel.

I traced onto the steel the shape of the knife from a pattern which I had drawn onto a piece of cereal box beforehand as a mock-up to decide what shape I wanted:

















Then I cut it out with a jigsaw. I went through several blades but I took it slow and tried to let the jigsaw do the work. A 1/8" thick piece of steel would have been easier to cut but the next knife I do will probably get cut with a borrowed plasma cutter which should be MUCH easier. As you can see it was a rough cut but thats OK because I shaped it later. Be patient on this step:









This next photo shows the knife (on the bottom) after I shaped it using an 8" bench grinder. I then took a file and did a flat grind for the edge. I figured that would be easier to do than a hollow grind on my first knife since I could do it slow and steady with the file. I wore blisters in my hand but it turned out really nice. Also in this picture is the knife I started with the Home Depot steel (on the top) as practice -- as you can see I refined the shape a little:









Here is another shot of the knife I cut from the good steel. It is shaped (by bench grinder) flat ground (by file):









Next I tried to sand off most of the burrs and stuff with an 5" orbital sander. This worked pretty well but left lots of deeper scratches. Since the highest grit sandpaper I could find was 220 I tried buffing it out with a buffing wheel. It didnt ever get all the scratches out. Next time I would like to try a belt sander with much higher grits. That should make buffing easier and give me a much nicer finish ultimately.

This photo shows both knives I cut from the same steel stock. One with a flat grind, the other with a hollow grind (done on the bench grinder). This was taken after I buffed out as many scratches on the exposed parts of the metal as I could:









The next step was to heat treat the knife. The idea is to heat the steel to a critical temperature where it forms a crystalline structure with carbon in the middle of this structure. This is the reason you need high carbon steel instead of the cheap stuff I bought at Home Depot. The critical temperature for this O-1 tool steel is 1450°F and 1500°F at this point the metal also becomes non-magnetic. Once you reach that temperature you quench O-1 steel in oil (thats apparently what the "O" is for on "O-1"). I used two gallons of vegetable oil in a steel bucket. Quenching the metal shrinks the size of this crystalline structure trapping the carbon molecule making for a really hard structure.

I didnt have a forge to heat metal in so I had to build one. Luckily I had an old cast iron wood stove that was in the back yard. I just needed a way to get it super heated. I bought some 1/2" iron pipe and some fittings to attach it to my air compressor (150gal IIRC) cut some holes in the appropriate parts and this is what I ended up with:

























I heaped some hardwood charcoal on top of that. Got it lit. Opened the valve a very little bit and I had the thing roaring in no time! I was able to heat up the knives in probably 10-15 minutes. My air compressor was just barely able to keep up but it did alright -- in hindsight I could have done with less (or smaller) holes in my pipes.

Here are the knives after I quenched them in oil:









Soon after quenching in oil you need to temper the steel. After quenching the steel is very hard but brittle. Tempering takes some of the hardness away but gives some "give" back to the metal too. This makes it less likely to chip or break with use while still being hard. I put mine in the oven for an hour or so. I am still learning but I think next time I will go with about 325°F-350°F.

After this was done I buffed the metal again to a shine and cut out some handles out of some mesquite wood and epoxied it to the knife. I ran some brass rods through where I had drilled some holes previously. I let this dry overnight:









Once dried I used the 5" orbital sander to shape the handle like I wanted it. I did some brush up on it by hand and applied tung oil to the handle.

Here is the finished product, ready to have a sharpened edge put on it by whetstone:


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

I am fairly happy with how this turned out and plan to give it to my father this next week when I go to visit him.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Congrats! Looks good. Now make a machete!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Wow! I don't know how you guys stuff like that. I can build an AR-15 out of a parts kit in no time flat, but making a knife by scratch? No way.


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## Theriot (Aug 17, 2012)

Yea same here. When I see pic like that I think man I can do that then real life sets in and I'm back to just trying to keep my sharp. I can't even get a good edge on the ones I buy. Great job.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Good looking blades!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Very nicely done ... your father would be proud to carry that knife! 


:factor10:


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Very nice!! Good lookin blade! Roughly how many hours do you have into it? 
You can find high grit wet dry sandpaper at automotive stores, not for an orbital sander but you can get the scratches out. I found 4000 and 6000 grit wet dry paper for sharpening my handplane and chisel blades, they were scarey sharp!!! 
That forge blower was a brilliant idea!!! 

Good work!!


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Oh and thanks!! You got me wanting to start grinding again! Now I just gotta get steel, sanding belts and space!!!


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## LilRedHen (Aug 28, 2011)

Wednesday night on PBS I watched Nova production of 'The Viking Ulfberht sword is reverse engineered'. The blacksmith made crucible or Damascus steel from iron ore, sand and a piece of glass and built the oven to fire it in and then a ulfberht sword from the block. I thought it was fascinating. PBS does regular reruns; yall should watch it if you get a chance.

It's coming on tonight at 8:00 p.m. in my area.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks all! My father loved it. I am going to make at least two more different knives out of the steel I have and may well purchase more. It was a lot of work but it was even more fun -- sure makes you appreciate the cheap blades you can buy at the store for only a couple bucks.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Immolatus said:


> Congrats! Looks good. Now make a machete!


I have about 2' of steel left and I am going to make that machete that Eli uses in "Book of Eli". It should be sweet but will require more skill to heat treat such a large piece.



pandamonium said:


> Oh and thanks!! You got me wanting to start grinding again! Now I just gotta get steel, sanding belts and space!!!


I am convinced I need to purchase a belt sander to up the quality of the work I am doing. Do you have any more pics of the stuff you are working on? I'd love to see it!


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

No, I wish!! I'm broke, gotta get some belts for my grinder and some steel. Hopefully soon though. 

I have a knife grinder from Grizzly industrial, bought it years ago but never really used it for knife grinding. When I get home I can post a link for it. IIRC, it was only a little over 300 bucks. Should do the trick with a little tweaking!


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## cengasser (Mar 12, 2012)

Very nice!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I use a bench grinder and an automotive angle grinder.LOL
I'd have to completely re train myself to do it any other way!


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Magus said:


> I use a bench grinder and an automotive angle grinder.LOL
> I'd have to completely re train myself to do it any other way!


Magus, you have been doing this quite a while. Have you ever used stainless steel? I may be getting some that is quite possibly of unknown alloy and am wondering what the heat treating process might be or is it impossible to tell without knowing the alloy?


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

pandamonium said:


> No, I wish!! I'm broke, gotta get some belts for my grinder and some steel. Hopefully soon though.
> 
> I have a knife grinder from Grizzly industrial, bought it years ago but never really used it for knife grinding. When I get home I can post a link for it. IIRC, it was only a little over 300 bucks. Should do the trick with a little tweaking!


I looked at the knife grinder you've got (I think). It seems a bit pricey but is probably perfect for the job! http://www.grizzly.com/products/Knife-Belt-Sander-Buffer/G1015

What do you think of this el-cheapo made in China? I would rather have a nice one but can't justify the cost for a hobby right now. Anyone out there have any experience with one of these?

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-x-30-inch-belt-sander-2485.html


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Wow, the price on that thing went way up from when I bought mine! I think I paid a little over 300 for it. 

That HF grinder will struggle with heavy stock removal, 1/3hp isn't much. I would shop around for availability of belts for it too. 60grit for heavy work all the way up to at least 320grit. 

You really want to know the make-up of any steel to be able to heat treat it properly. I personally don't like stainless because most of it has such a low carbon content that it cannot be use to make sparks for fire starting. Which to me, for the knives I will be making is a big factor.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

TheAnt said:


> Magus, you have been doing this quite a while. Have you ever used stainless steel? I may be getting some that is quite possibly of unknown alloy and am wondering what the heat treating process might be or is it impossible to tell without knowing the alloy?


Hmm.I've heard ammonia for about any stainless.
I've also heard chucking one in the deep freezer for a month will do it.

If a Magnet won't stick to it, it won't make a knife anyway.


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

If you are just starting out try not to use stainless. It is hard to forge and requires a subzero quench to get the full hardness out of it. You can do it at home with dry ice and acetone if you want to. Files and grinders for stainless. Not knowing the metal means you are gonna have to use a basic heat treat. Heat it to non magnetic and quench in oil, veggie oil works great.


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## CA357 (Jan 14, 2013)

I just found this thread. Nice work!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

LilRedHen said:


> Wednesday night on PBS I watched Nova production of 'The Viking Ulfberht sword is reverse engineered'. The blacksmith made crucible or Damascus steel from iron ore, sand and a piece of glass and built the oven to fire it in and then a ulfberht sword from the block. I thought it was fascinating. PBS does regular reruns; yall should watch it if you get a chance.
> 
> It's coming on tonight at 8:00 p.m. in my area.


I missed this when you first posted it ... it peaked my interest so I had to do some YouTubing to see if I could find something about it from PBS ...

Testing it:





The reverse engineering of it:


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

Took another look at the forge pics. You could get away with using one pipe down the center.


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## jimijam624 (Nov 26, 2012)

Just finished my first knife ! Made a skinner from tool steel scrap from work.

























A few minor scratches from the dremel I still need to polish out but I like it!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Nice blade.that a carpet cutting blade?


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## jimijam624 (Nov 26, 2012)

This blade won't touch anything but expired animals. I researched skinning knives a lot and came up with that design. It feels great in my hands and is very maneuverable


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

I like the forge set up. But you should redrill the holes out to 1/4 inch. I also drilled all the way through so I had four equally spaced holes. You can also get away with using one pipe down the center. You eill use less fuel. This will help prevent 'hot and cold spots' when heating your metal up. Forges work best with a high volume of slower moving air and that will give you better heat control. I didn't notice but do you have a valve in there to control the flow? I had a similar set up for my frist forge and used a ball valve to adjust the air flow. Looking good so far and keep up the good work.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

jimijam624 said:


> This blade won't touch anything but expired animals. I researched skinning knives a lot and came up with that design. It feels great in my hands and is very maneuverable


No man,was it a carpet cutting blade before it was a knife?they're A1 tool steel, next only to HSS ot Moly.


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## jimijam624 (Nov 26, 2012)

"Magus" sorry I mis understood. No it wasn't a carpet blade. I cut that blade shape out from a plate of tool steel that my employer purchased from Starrett. We buy these precision ground plates often and when we have scraps I bring them home for making tools.









Here's the label from the package


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Nice!bet it holds a keen edge!


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## jimijam624 (Nov 26, 2012)

Yes it's very nice to work with and edges up real nice! I'm honored to have someone with your experience and skill comment on my work! Thanks


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

You should invest in what they call a deburing wheel, it makes a lovely matt finish and can easily be taken to a mirror sheen with 400 grit jeweler's paper.Pity lead wheels are long gone, they made the most exquisite BLACK polish, done right it was like looking at obsidian.
What are the grips made of?


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## jimijam624 (Nov 26, 2012)

The grips are just some ply wood I had laying around. I liked the layered look of it so I put em on. But I am thinking about putting some cherry wood on because I think the darker color will look real nice and it's better quality wood. I have cherry planks left over from doing my kitchen floor.


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