# Does anyone know?



## SuspectZero (Feb 3, 2011)

We have been gardening for 2 years now and continue to expand our area we use for it but have been using store bought seeds. I once came across a site that let you pick seeds out of each veggie catagory to make a seed bank for your needs but have lost the site. We want to build a bank and stop using store bought. If anyone has seen a site like this a link would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

If you really want to stop buying seeds, you need to start saving seeds from your own crops, learn what cross pollinates with your local weeds (bad news) and how long the various seeds are viable, which can range from a year to decades. The how-to methods also vary from crop to crop. Susan Ashworth's "Seed to Seed" is really the only comprehensive seed-saving instruction manual available, and it's a great place to start.


----------



## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep that's the only way to go if you want to be seed self-sufficient. However, until you get to that point, here is a list of seed suppliers to get you started.

http://www.howdogardener.com/439-2/seed-source-guide


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Make sure you're saving seeds that will come back as the 'true' plant. Hybrids don't always come back and produce the same plant you started with, and sometimes it takes a 'generation or two' before the strain changes. Look for heirloom seed as much as possible. Don't pay attention to "Organic" on seed packages. It just means they haven't been grown with artificial fertilizers and herbicides/pesticides. It doesn't necessarily mean they're heirloom.


----------



## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

Just a comment on hybrids...Last spring, I planted a hybrid seedless watermelon that turned out to be absolutely tasteless, but as advertised, it contained only a few white seeds. It was so bad, I tilled the entire plant back into the garden. In late summer, a few volunteer plants came up, so I decided to let them grow. In November, a couple of the fruits looked to be ripe, but I almost didn't pick them as I expected them to be equally as bad as the first crop. 

The outside looked identical to the hybrid, while the inside was full of black seeds, but it was delicious! Moral of the story?...the new, improved product is not always better than the original.


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

GaryS said:


> Just a comment on hybrids...Last spring, I planted a hybrid seedless watermelon that turned out to be absolutely tasteless, but as advertised, it contained only a few white seeds. It was so bad, I tilled the entire plant back into the garden. In late summer, a few volunteer plants came up, so I decided to let them grow. In November, a couple of the fruits looked to be ripe, but I almost didn't pick them as I expected them to be equally as bad as the first crop.
> 
> The outside looked identical to the hybrid, while the inside was full of black seeds, but it was delicious! Moral of the story?...the new, improved product is not always better than the original.


That is incredibly interesting! Thanks for sharing! I knew plants would grow from saved hybrid seeds, but assumed they would decline in quality, not restore themself to a better product! Cool!


----------



## SuspectZero (Feb 3, 2011)

We absolutely want to save seeds but the ones we buy are gmos and are one shots. Thanks for those links of sites i will check them out. Does anyone know the amount of land one it takes to produce enough for one person on average? Considering canning and dehydrating.


----------



## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I started buying my heirlooms from Baker Creek seeds and Seed saver exchange.. but got my stash from saving seeds correctly(Seed to Seed by Susan Ashworth is one of the best books for beginners to old hands) and then doing trades in the fall with others who wanted the few types that I started with. I ended up paying out just about $30 in postage, which was how much I had put away to buy more seeds via Baker Creek that year. I ended up with over 60 different seeds to try! If I had tried to buy all those seed packets it would have been bank breaking!
I have so many different seeds that I have been growing many out in rounds for the past 3 years. Stored properly many will not need to be grown out every year but maybe every 5 years to some a bit longer, some do need to be grown out almost every year.(Seed to Seed covers average seed "life")
As for how much land per person to grow all the veg needed for a year(fresh eating and preserving) that is really hard- it really depends on your system of growing/what you like/how "lively" your soil is and what kind of soil you really have. Are you going to have boxes and maybe do French Intensive growing or Ruth Stout growing or lasagna beds or Zuni waffle beds in desert areas?

As a gardener and when I worked in the greenhouse I often got asked which method is the best and there is really no answer.. I mix two to three of the types together and make my "own" best way.. 
lasagna beds that are mulched heavy like Ruth stout method and then planted like French Intensive.. only do organic as much as possible and grow "up" as much as possible.. as in stuff that crawls goes up fencing and is trellised.. Pole beans/tomatoes/smaller squashes/cucumbers/melons/small sugar pumpkins all go up.. And in the middle of summer I grew lettuces behind the tall trellises where it was cooler and they do not get as bitter.
As for bug control.. on my cole crops they mostly do not need to have pollinators so they get covered by remay cloth or sheer curtains that I buy at yard sales and it is just draped over the plants or over pvc hoops pushed into the ground.. keeps the cabbage loopers off.
And for goodness sakes.. only grow stuff at first that you know that you like.. I have tried a few things over the years and found that just because I grew them myself they did not taste any better.. I was lucky that my mother loved Swiss chard because I surely did not.
I would like to say do as much reading as possible and if you see a really nice garden in your area.. and people out there working in it just go ahead and stop and ask a few questions on the area etc.. wouldn't hurt and you may end up with a new friend who can help more..


----------



## FireBird (Sep 28, 2011)

*Seeds*

PATRIOTSEEDSTORE.COM they are great and have a starter pack that will store fore a LONG time. AND the seeds are all heirloom varieties means no gov. genetic alterations lol. :2thumb:



SuspectZero said:


> We have been gardening for 2 years now and continue to expand our area we use for it but have been using store bought seeds. I once came across a site that let you pick seeds out of each veggie catagory to make a seed bank for your needs but have lost the site. We want to build a bank and stop using store bought. If anyone has seen a site like this a link would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Your comment regarding discovering how much space you need makes me think of an amazing family in California. The Dervaes family (I hope I spelled that correctly) grows enough food on a small plot to feed themselves, sell organic products to local restaurants, and have a porch produce stand. I admire them for their self-reliant skills. They travel for workshops & have been featured on a few tv shows. They are off-grid, have goats, chickens, bees, etc and beautiful raised garden plots...always a good inspiration for me to see their progress as I plan our next steps. Shows you really don't need that much space, just need to utilize what you have wisely. Especially love the resourcefulness, from their outdoor oven to their bicycle-powered blender.


----------



## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

There are only 7 GMO seed varieties available and they are not available to the home gardner, only commercially. 2 corn varieties, papayas, cotton, soy, canola, and alfalfa. There is a GM rice but that is sold in Asia, and they are working on a GM tomato and strawberry. Hybrid is NOT GMO seed, it is a naturally modified variety seed, not modified artifically via foreign gene insertion into the seed matrix. Hybrid may or may not reproduce an eatable produce when u sing saved seed, it a gamble and gambling with food supply in hard times can be deadly, i.e. no food available.


----------



## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

If you are looking into seed saving you should read the book Gardening when it counts by Steve Solomon. The book is not about seed saving but since he used to sell seed commercially and ran seed trials he has some rather solid insight into the science of saving seeds vs some of the bad science that is floating around. He also has some very strong beliefs around gardening which you should filter through your own experience but his seed discussion is well based in science and worth a read. 

As for your question I have not seen such a site but it sounds like a really good idea. So I gave Google a spin for "select your seed bank" and interestingly most of the results were for people growing Mary Jane...


----------



## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

SuspectZero said:


> Does anyone know the amount of land one it takes to produce enough for one person on average? Considering canning and dehydrating.


I've read anywhere from 2 1/2 acres for a family of 4, to 1/4 acre (if you believe the book "Mini-Farming, Self-sufficiency on 1/4 acre." So, take your pick.


----------



## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

Garden size depends on where you live, what you grow, and how much work you want to do. 

My grandfather gardened about one acre in North Dakota, and it fed his family plus lots of give-away. He loved corn and potatoes, so they took up most of his garden. He also weeded with a horse-drawn cultivator, so row spacing was wide. Quite a bit of his sweet corn went to his beloved horses as treats.

I had a plot about 50'X100' in Western Washington. It had three 4X8 raised beds, 10' of trellis, and a 4X8 covered enclosure for tomatoes. I also had a dozen fruit trees, a raspberry patch, a three-tiered strawberry bed, and eight net-covered blueberry bushes. It nearly fed a family of four, except for the fresh veggies we wanted out of season. We usually traveled to Eastern Washington to pick the fruit we didn't grow, and to gather tomato leftovers in the fields after they were harvested...the farmers let us have all we wanted for free. I also had a small greenhouse to start seedlings, grow flower cuttings, and extend the growing season for some potted plants.

My rows of corn and other large row crops were spaced so I could weed between them with a rear-tine tiller. I hated hoeing, so I needed more space than necessary.


----------



## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

A few more comments:

Steve Solomon used to own a seed company (Territorial Seeds) so it's one of his strong points.

Heirloom <> perfect seed. All the heirlooms, by definition, were bred to thrive in a specific microclimate and conditions and pest & disease pressure. That doesn't mean it will do well for you. The short cut is to ask local gardeners what they grow and find out was does well in your region, and start experimenting from there. Farily that, look for varieties that originated nearby or in similar climates.

There are MANY non-heirloom seeds which are not hybrids, but are traditionally bred. New ones come out every year. They are open pollinated, so will breed true to type, and if one comes from an Ag college or breeder near you, try it in your garden. It was bred for your area, not a pocket of soil in eastern Europe somewhere.


----------



## SuspectZero (Feb 3, 2011)

All of your comments have been very helpful. I obviously have a lot of reading up to do in this area as this is one that we are just beginning. I lack a green thumb spending most my time in thetimber and finding food with four legs. Thank you all. Also can you freeze the seed vaults that are on these site or will that damage them? garden noob i know


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

if it hasn't been mentioned, invest in some seed starter trays (I use cardboard egg cartons) and stagger the planting so that you maximize your time of 'fresh fruit' (veggies). IMHO it gives you greater control and insight into what grows and how fast; especially if you are on the low-end of the learning curve with horticulture (like me).


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

seed savers exchange has non-hybrid seeds in a huge collection. they grow and sell some each year, and members who join up get a sewed swapping catalog each january listing seeds others are willing to swap or sell at very nominal fees so you can grow them out and build up a supply. Many are heirlooms no longer sold. they also put out a book listing all non-hybrid seeds available commercially, and who has them so if there are any that are only carried by one source members can buy and save some for the future. very good folks, lots of info there, both on procuring and saving your own seeds (for example, did you know that if seeds are dry enough they can be frozen without losing viability for many years. Thats how the seed banks do it...


----------

