# Humvee vs Oshkosh JLTV



## Sentry18

Lots of pictures if you follow the link.

I did not realize that the JLTV had a Chevy engine in it.












> After over three decades of faithful service, the United States Army and Marine Corps are replacing the AM General Humvee in frontline service with the Oshkosh JLTV. Although Humvees will continue to serve behind-the-scenes with the Army and Marines until 2050, the new JLTV (short for Joint Light Tactical Vehicle) is as much as a technology leap over the Humvee as the Humvee was to the Jeep-like Ford M151 MUTT before it. With that in mind, here's how the Humvee and JLTV stack up on paper.
> 
> Under the Hood
> 
> When AM General developed the Humvee back in the late '70s and early '80s, its naturally aspirated 150-hp 6.2-liter diesel V-8 paired with a three-speed automatic was a game-changer compared to the M151 MUTT's gas-swilling 71-hp 2.3-liter I-4 and four-speed manual. Since the Humvee first went into service, its engine has been upgraded to a 6.5-liter turbodiesel V-8 that produces a scant 190 hp, paired with a four-speed automatic. That's hardly enough power to motivate the base Humvee's roughly 6,000-pound curb weight, let alone the 13,000-plus-pound curb weight of an armored Humvee.
> 
> The Oshkosh JLTV's powertrain represents decades of automotive advancement. In an effort to keep costs in check and hit performance targets, Oshkosh chose GM's new L5P Duramax 6.6-liter turbodiesel V-8 engine to power the new JLTV. A familiar sight under the hoods of 2017 Chevrolet Silverado HD and 2017 GMC Sierra HD models, the JTLV's Duramax engine is modified for severe duty and actually detuned to around 400 hp by Gale Banks Engineering for the JLTV. The JLTV's transmission is also a durable, commercially available component; it's the Allison six-speed automatic transmission also used by GM heavy-duty pickups.
> 
> Where the Rubber Hits the Road
> 
> More than anything, both the Humvee and JLTV are designed around their four-wheel-drive systems. Some of the military's requirements for what would become the Humvee include the ability to climb a 60 percent incline, traverse a 40 percent slope, and ford 2.5 feet of water without a snorkel, or 5 feet with a snorkel. Those requirements dictated a lot of the engineering and design choices AM General made in the Humvee. It was fitted with an independent suspension, its wheels were mounted on portal axles providing gear reduction and boosting ground clearance to 16 inches. The Humvee's entire drivetrain and even its brakes were sucked up into the body of the vehicle, making the cabin a tight squeeze but ensuring that the Humvee's off-road ability would meet military requirements. The whole package was rounded out with a full-time four-wheel-drive system with a two-speed transfer case, locking differentials, and a Central Tire Inflation System (CTIS).
> 
> Although much of the military's requirements for the JLTV are still classified, it did want the 14,000-pound JLTV to go everywhere the Humvee could go but be faster and with more capability. To that end, Oshkosh fits each JLTV with its TAK-4i suspension system. A fully independent double-wishbone design with electronically adjustable high-pressure gas shocks, Oshkosh tuned the JLTV's TAK-4i suspension in the Baja 1000, giving this military off-roader some serious Ford F-150 Raptor-rivaling chops. The JLTV's suspension has 20 inches of wheel travel and the ability to raise and lower the suspension as needed, negating the need for portal axles. Without the optional snorkel kit, and with its suspension in its highest setting, the JLTV can ford 5 feet of water without breaking a sweat. Like the Humvee, the JLTV also has a full-time four-wheel-drive system with low-range, locking differentials, and a CTIS.
> 
> Reliability
> 
> Although Humvees were initially pretty reliable in the field, as they aged and as the military upgraded them with heavy armor that increased wear and tear, they became garage queens to many servicemen and women. During the testing phase of the JLTV program, the U.S. Army and Marine Corps brought along 22 up-armored Humvees to test alongside Oshkosh, Lockheed Martin, and AM General's JLTV entrants, with each manufacturer providing 22 test vehicles. During nearly three years of testing, platoons equipped with Oshkosh JLTVs had the highest levels of mission success.
> 
> Oshkosh's JLTVs were also far and away the most reliable of the bunch, averaging 7,051 miles between operational mission failure, defined as a system failure that prevents the vehicle from accomplishing its mission. Up-armored Humvees were surprisingly the second-most reliable of the group, averaging 2,968 miles between failures, followed by the Lockheed Martin JLTV at 1,271 miles between failures, and the AM General BRV-O JLTV, which averaged 526 miles between failures.
> 
> Armor
> 
> Humvees offered up far better protection to its occupants compared to the open air jeeps they replaced. In the same way that AM General improved the light tactical vehicle by adding a roof and doors, Oshkosh does the same by baking a base-level of armor into each JLTV. Utilizing lessons learned on its M-ATV MRAP (Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected vehicle) program, the JLTV features a V-shaped hull to deflect blasts from below, bulletproof windows, and an armored crew capsule. Compared to an up-armored Humvee, a basic JLTV offers multiple orders of magnitude more protection from bullets and bombs to its occupants. Each JLTV is also capable of being fitted with a "B-Kit" of armor, boosting protection to MRAP-levels of protection.
> 
> The Oshkosh JLTV is currently in low-rate initial production. Although the U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Coast Guard haven't revealed any intention of buying the JLTV, the U.S. Army and Marine Corps will begin to field JTLVs to front-line troops by fall of 2018.





















http://www.motortrend.com/news/humvee-compares-to-new-oshkosh-jltv/


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## ZoomZoom

Sweet! Seems very capable.

A little curious as to why there's no gun ports in the doors. The occupants inside cannot return fire without opening the door or getting out. The turret looks pretty well protected.

Not mentioned is its firepower options. Would like to see a TOW missile launcher on it so it can handle tanks and other heavy armor.


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## phideaux

Love it, 
That thing is a bigger Beast than my toy...

Of course I'm a Diesel fan, and that Duramax is a great engine choice.

Of course the Cummins would have been a better choice...

I want one.

Jim


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## Sentry18

ZoomZoom said:


> Sweet! Seems very capable.
> 
> A little curious as to why there's no gun ports in the doors. The occupants inside cannot return fire without opening the door or getting out. The turret looks pretty well protected.
> 
> Not mentioned is its firepower options. Would like to see a TOW missile launcher on it so it can handle tanks and other heavy armor.


There are numerous weapons platforms that can mount to it. Including remote controlled belt fed machine guns. I guess they decided that they don't need gun ports if they can just use the joystick to shoot volumes of .50 cal rounds while sitting inside an armored box.


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## ZoomZoom

Sentry18 said:


> There are numerous weapons platforms that can mount to it. Including remote controlled belt fed machine guns. I guess they decided that they don't need gun ports if they can just use the joystick to shoot volumes of .50 cal rounds while sitting inside an armored box.


High-tech is cool but really prone to failure. Some 2x2" holes in the doors puts all the soldiers back in the fight without having to exit the vehicle.


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## ZoomZoom

I wouldn't see an issue. Armored vehicles have had them for years. The armored Humvee's have windows that partially open.


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## Sentry18

ZoomZoom said:


> High-tech is cool but really prone to failure. Some 2x2" holes in the doors puts all the soldiers back in the fight without having to exit the vehicle.


You also only need 1 bullet or 1 piece of shrapnel to get inside and start rattling around to do a LOT of damage. Lessons learned in the middle east. Plus there is not a lot of fighting going on when you are inside of a metal box, gun port or no gun port. You can kind of point a barrel in the direction they bad guys might be coming from and fire a few rounds, but that's about it. Protecting our soldiers and letting air support do its job is a far better option.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I want one! Probably a little out of my price range though. I guess I'll have to stick with my dream of a well refurbished cucv instead.


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## Pessimistic2

Sentry18 said:


> You also only need 1 bullet or 1 piece of shrapnel to get inside and start rattling around to do a LOT of damage. Lessons learned in the middle east. Plus there is not a lot of fighting going on when you are inside of a metal box, gun port or no gun port. You can kind of point a barrel in the direction they bad guys might be coming from and fire a few rounds, but that's about it. Protecting our soldiers and letting air support do its job is a far better option.


Gotta love them Wart Hogs and Apaches!!


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## Greif

Does it have air conditioning


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## tmttactical

Greif said:


> Does it have air conditioning ��


You all related to DR. D.? :rofl:


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## Sentry18

Greif said:


> Does it have air conditioning ��


You can bet your butt if the Air Force adopts it theirs will.


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## CrackbottomLouis

Sentry18 said:


> You can bet your butt if the Air Force adopts it theirs will.


And a keurig as well!


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## drfacefixer

ZoomZoom said:


> High-tech is cool but really prone to failure. Some 2x2" holes in the doors puts all the soldiers back in the fight without having to exit the vehicle.


It also adds significant structural weakness and allows occupants to be subject to pressure forces/changes from explosions. Doctrine and training will do more than built in gun ports.


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## forluvofsmoke

I'm hopeful that there is sufficient under-body blast/frag protection, not only under the occupant compartment, but for the entire power-train, cooling system, drive-train, and lastly, suspension/steering. That can't be a good feeling when a vehicle becomes disabled from a low hitting RPG, mortar, or a land mine, and then immediately being over-run by enemy forces before you can evacuate and regroup. Having the ability to take a hard hit, brush it off and continue fighting betters the chances for our troops to come home alive.

The Humvee seemed to be lacking in those vehicle critical systems protection, which resulted in many disabled combat units. It's difficult to assess from the photos, but the would-be grill/radiator area of the Oshkosh seems to have armor...specifics of the cooling system, as well as much else, are classified, I'm sure. 

Anyone ever notice the hood-grill on the Humvee? Looks like a major catcher for projectiles, IMHO, and may even deflect objects into the engine compartment...opposite of what you would want to happen. The Oshkosh B-Kit (MRAP-level) does sound very promising...one MEAN and purpose-built combat machine.

The Oshkosh JLTV tested as far more reliable than it's competitors, so, yeah, EVERYBODY is gonna want one (or several hundred)...including our enemies. Hopefully the designers and manufacturers of the vehicle and all of it's amenities will be patriotic and loyal to the US.

YOU GO, OSHKOSH!!!


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## Tirediron

Oshkosh has a long history of response machinery, as opposed to mail trucks.

The Detroit 6.5 isn't as lame as the numbers show, but they must have special Hummer tuning, Cause they worked fairly well in GM 1 tons.

And lots of Egos bought the civilian model


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