# Mental Health, Drugs, and Withdrawal



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

A few weeks ago a member wrote a post about his own experiences with mental illness in the wake of the Aurora shootings and that post along with this great article from survivalblog.com prompted me to write this post.

First of all let me HIGHLY encourage you to read the article. Its long and technical and looks like it took someone a hell of a lot of time, but if you know someone with mental health issues, or on antidepressants, or there is any chance that you may encounter such a person, and want to incorporate them into your prepping plans (all of us community preppers), then you need to at least be aware of this issue!

:nuts: The fact is that mental health issues are everywhere, and today in many cases we might not know that someone struggles from these issues because of the stigma associated with this issue (as evidenced by the emoticon), and because quite frankly they control it with pharmaceuticals. Even those who don't really have mental health issues are often prescribed these drugs to help them deal with the tough realities of life, and so what happens if the supply of these drugs runs out? Whether its of a debt crisis like Greece's where they can't get many drug companies to even sell them the drugs and the prices of the drugs themselves are experiencing sharp inflation, or a worse case scenario in which the rule of law breaks down completely and with it the infastructure comes to a halt, at that fragile moment in history what happens to the mentally fragile?

If the SHTF occurs, long controlled mental health issues, and the reality of withdrawal from the drugs that once controlled them, will begin to manifest at the same time that the medical system collapses, the police close up shop, the prisons are shuttered, and at the same time that nutrition levels (which the article above notes is a possible alternative to drugs) will plummet, and when people will need these drugs more than ever (high stress)!

One of the things that people often talk about re:TEOTWAWKI is the "die off" that will result from the unavailability of life saving drugs that today prolong lives that in nature would have long since ended. We have to be ready for the reality that those who are dependent on these drugs will die and those who are not will need to adjust their lives dramatically or find alternatives to the drugs. Mental health drugs, usually fall into the latter category, HOWEVER they are the MOST IMPORTANT type of the latter category to consider because of the anti-social, destructive, and even violent reactions that can occur with withdrawal.

And so my question is this, are you prepared, or even thinking about the mental health of your group. I mean a SHTF situation is going to put strain on anyone's mental status, as will the chemical witdrawal from a whole host of things that we take for granted (e.g. sugar). Assuming that you would know about the use of anti-depressants by your spouse and minor children, can you say for certain that no one else you plan to survive with uses these drugs? It seems to me that the following steps might make a good SOP for mental health issues, and should be a priority in the days immediately after any disaster, but particularly TEOTWAWKI.

1) Assign a group shrink (i.e. counselor/chaplain) to keep an eye on peoples emotional, spiritual, and mental health, someone who has some training would be great, but someone who is a good listener and observant could do the job if untrained. This should not be the group leader or tactical leader as in the days after the SHTF they will be distracted by other things.

2) Do an "assessment" of everyone "behind the lines," ASAP. In an armed camp you need to be able to trust that all the enemies are "out there." Have your group shrink interview (this doesn't have to be as formal as it sounds) everyone in your group. This could be done, perhaps, with one other person (perhaps a group doc or medic) offering another perspective but should not be confrontational or accusatory. Just have a conversation about how the individual is doing, eating, drinking, sleeping, strange dreams, crying, feelings. This assessment should include, at the end, a question about any drug use or addictions. Legal, illegal, mundane (caffine or tabacco) it doesn't matter WHAT a person is going through withdrawal FROM (and most will be withdrawing from something), someone should take that into consideration.

3) ***Confidentiality is really important for all of us who work in the very private and intimate world of the human mind and soul, BUT in a SHTF the group leader NEEDS to KNOW, at least somethings, that pre-TEOTWAWKI would have been considered privileged and confidential. Particularly if your group shrink used to be a health care or mental health worker, be clear about the ground rules with your group shrink (and doc for that matter). The SOP has changed, make sure they know it.

4) With the help of the group doc try to develope a plan for coping with addictions and withdrawal. E.g.: so you have only 10lbs of coffee stored, make sure you taper coffeeholics off of it. I used to drink 2 POTS a day and then one year decided to give it up for religious reasons (Lent). What a mistake, I couldn't function for three weeks. I survived three weeks of college in utter misery, but in a life and death SHTF situation I would not recommend going cold turkey on coffee. The same is true with anti-depressants, if you HAVE to come off them because they are unavailable, spread the suffering out. Use what you have to wean yourself off them.

5) Have frequent reassesments particularly after traumatic incidents, fights or harsh words, or in response to odd or uncharacteristic behavior.

6) Consider the worse case scenario: you may have to "bench" the person suffering from mental illness, or withdrawal. This might be as simple as restricted duties and observation. This means definitely restricting them from tactical duties, it may mean either limiting or eliminating their access to firearms (and weapons in general),and the headache of implementing a regime for everyone else so that weapons are not left unsecured (don't forget the kitchen knives). In hospitals someone who is a threat to themselves or others gets a babysitter 24/7. This might include the extreme of locking the person up or tying them down (this is how it was done in the bad old days before better living through modern pharmaceuticals).

It seem might be easier to abandon or exile (or kill) the person, not a moral option for me no matter who it is, but what happens when its your wife, best friend, or your adult child, who has been using anti-depressants, is in withdrawal, and exibiting:

paraesthesias ("electric shocks" in the head), sweating, nausea, insomnia, tremor, confusion, nightmares, and vertigo agitation, anxiety, akathesia, *panic attacks,* irritability, *hostility, aggressiveness,* worsening of mood, dysphoria (unhappiness), crying spells, mood instability, hyperactivity, depersonalization, decreased concentration, slowed thinking, confusion, and memory/concentration difficulties... *VIOLENT OUTBURSTS, SUICIDAL or HOMICIDAL THOUGHTS*, etc.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Padre, great info and a +1000

As for the coffee, I don't drink it myself, but we are storing it! Come on by and we can haggle over it. I am thinking 90 days post SHTF it would be around a silver dollar per cup


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Some derugs can people go into siezures too.My MIL takes one that is not supposed to be stopped quickly.She is 83.
Too many people take drugs now.In the 60s they wrote a song about 'Mothers Little Helpers'[valuim]think it was The Stones?
Poor kids are calmed dowm now with all kinds of crap.We laways had kids with some learnign disabilities,but they managed.Also what normal young kid sits still in class?
All those baby boys needs to come off that soymilk too,too much female hormones can give them small private parts.
Prozac Nation or vally of the dolls is what we are,maybe thats why we no longer have a nation.Not many have real emotions anymore.

The word pharmacy means sorcery in the hebrew lango.


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Meerkat said:


> The word pharmacy means sorcery in the hebrew lango.


:scratch uuuhhmm, I'm Jewish, I speak and read Hebrew - the word you're looking for is: Pharmakeus, and it is GREEK. :gaah:

I know all of us Mediterranean brown-people look alike, but c'mon!  

And to add a little extra; 'sorcerers' in the bible were NOT physicians, the translation is closer to 'poisoner', because they brewed hallucinogenic potions NOT for medicinal needs. Yeah, they cram a LOT into your head at Yeshiva.


----------



## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> : because they brewed hallucinogenic potions NOT for medicinal needs.


Where can I get some of those?


----------



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

The_Blob said:


> :scratch uuuhhmm, I'm Jewish, I speak and read Hebrew - the word you're looking for is: Pharmakeus, and it is GREEK. :gaah:
> 
> I know all of us Mediterranean brown-people look alike, but c'mon!


all rook same!


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> :scratch uuuhhmm, I'm Jewish, I speak and read Hebrew - the word you're looking for is: Pharmakeus, and it is GREEK. :gaah:
> 
> I know all of us Mediterranean brown-people look alike, but c'mon!
> 
> And to add a little extra; 'sorcerers' in the bible were NOT physicians, the translation is closer to 'poisoner', because they brewed hallucinogenic potions NOT for medicinal needs. Yeah, they cram a LOT into your head at Yeshiva.


 Thanks for correction,but it still means the same thing.Drugs produce an idle mind, and an idle mind is the devils workshop.
'Yeshiva just like most of the hebrew religian has been highjacked ,but the message is still there.
I see what mind altering drugs do to people.Its also as trillion $ biz.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

If you or someone else in your group is on mental health meds then you need to take a decreased dose and make them last longer. If you have a 30 day supply then you should probably take half a dose for the first month and then a quarter dose the rest of the way. Or some variation of that.

There are a number of conditions where the meds are vital. I'm convinced though that in the majority of cases, antidepressants are prescribed to treat _symptoms_ and not causes. A lot of people are depressed because of what happened to them during their lives or because of things that they did. In a lot of cases people need to learn to deal with the things that are making them depressed.


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

BillS said:


> If you or someone else in your group is on mental health meds then you need to take a decreased dose and make them last longer. If you have a 30 day supply then you should probably take half a dose for the first month and then a quarter dose the rest of the way. Or some variation of that.
> 
> There are a number of conditions where the meds are vital. I'm convinced though that in the majority of cases, antidepressants are prescribed to treat _symptoms_ and not causes. A lot of people are depressed because of what happened to them during their lives or because of things that they did. In a lot of cases people need to learn to deal with the things that are making them depressed.


 I do agree some people need them and can't function without help.But thats only about 00.1% ,imo.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

The bigger concern are people who have legitimate mental health needs for medications. My wife's sister's husband has a lot of problems with brain chemistry. The medications he's on keep him somewhat stable and somewhat functional although he hasn't been close to normal mentally in years. You could probably have him take smaller doses but he would get a lot worse no matter what you do.


----------



## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

BillS said:


> The bigger concern are people who have legitimate mental health needs for medications. My wife's sister's husband has a lot of problems with brain chemistry. The medications he's on keep him somewhat stable and somewhat functional although he hasn't been close to normal mentally in years. You could probably have him take smaller doses but he would get a lot worse no matter what you do.


IF TSHTF, then nature will take it's natural course and correct the mistake.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

partdeux said:


> IF TSHTF, then nature will take it's natural course and correct the mistake.


Mentally ill people aren't mistakes. They matter just the same as anybody else.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Find out how to wean off whatever med. Going from a full does to a half does may be very dangerous. You may have to step down by milligrams, not large jumps. 

Again, this is on a med by med case by case basis. Also find out what you can about what meds someone is taking prior any SHTF situation. An OD of some types of anti-depressants may in fact be fatal, and in surprisingly low amounts as well.


----------



## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

partdeux said:


> IF TSHTF, then nature will take it's natural course and correct the mistake.


Been to hell and back with my son, but he's not a mistake. Not now. Not ever.

Look, I *think* I understand what you're trying to say and take no offense. But mental illness isn't as Hollywood portrays it to be, and those who can only (and, perhaps, should only) exist in an assylum are rare even among the mentally ill.

People whose mental paradigms aren't rigidly 'normal' are often amazingly perceptive and can provide interesting (and out-of-the-box) perceptions that would benefit us so-called 'normal' folks. We should all be blessed to have someone like that in our lives.


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

goshengirl said:


> Been to hell and back with my son, but he's not a mistake. Not now. Not ever.
> 
> Look, I *think* I understand what you're trying to say and take no offense. But mental illness isn't as Hollywood portrays it to be, and those who can only (and, perhaps, should only) exist in an assylum are rare even among the mentally ill.
> 
> People whose mental paradigms aren't rigidly 'normal' are often amazingly perceptive and can provide interesting (and out-of-the-box) perceptions that would benefit us so-called 'normal' folks. We should all be blessed to have someone like that in our lives.


Aha! Finally! Normal is a mythical approximation anyway. What we need to prep, is a willingness to work with folks who are different, and the tolerance to do so. Yes, it may be necessary for them to wean off drugs of whatever kind. Hopefully, they too will be brave enough to learn to cope with their differences without becoming unduly fearful or panicked. Understanding and encouragement go a long way in helping them cope. Discern whether the person is TRULY dangerous, versus just 'scary-different'. Monitor for mounting danger signs, and take APPROPRIATE action to protect yourself and them as well. Yes, restraint may be required, but monitor whatever is done so you can discontinue when it is no longer needed. Some psych problems are cyclical. Many are exacerbated by fear. Most I dealt with got worse with loneliness and isolation, and improved when around understanding people. 
BTW, I have dealt with hundreds of so-called psych cases in my several careers and they all were delightful people, if you took the time to accept them as they were, not as society said they should be. Even an out and out 'crazy' can learn to get along with others, and yes, they often have amazing survival and analytical skills that are very useful. But you have to have the patience to find it sometimes. With all people, 'normal' or not, you have to take them as you find them, without fear or favor.


----------



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> I do agree some people need them and can't function without help.But thats only about 00.1% ,imo.


That's the point of my OP. Its not that people can't function without them, but that dealing with both the reality of detox and the reality of mental illness is, or at least should be, a key concern for preppers.

Also we should THINK about detox now, because you can't always split pills and expect two equal halves, and even if you could, some drugs are very sensitive and would have to be reduced by fractions much smaller than half or even a quarter.


----------



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

kappydell said:


> Aha! Finally! Normal is a mythical approximation anyway. What we need to prep, is a willingness to work with folks who are different, and the tolerance to do so. Yes, it may be necessary for them to wean off drugs of whatever kind. Hopefully, they too will be brave enough to learn to cope with their differences without becoming unduly fearful or panicked. Understanding and encouragement go a long way in helping them cope. Discern whether the person is TRULY dangerous, versus just 'scary-different'. Monitor for mounting danger signs, and take APPROPRIATE action to protect yourself and them as well. Yes, restraint may be required, but monitor whatever is done so you can discontinue when it is no longer needed. Some psych problems are cyclical. Many are exacerbated by fear. Most I dealt with got worse with loneliness and isolation, and improved when around understanding people.
> BTW, I have dealt with hundreds of so-called psych cases in my several careers and they all were delightful people, if you took the time to accept them as they were, not as society said they should be. Even an out and out 'crazy' can learn to get along with others, and yes, they often have amazing survival and analytical skills that are very useful. But you have to have the patience to find it sometimes. With all people, 'normal' or not, you have to take them as you find them, without fear or favor.


I agree with everything you say, BUT, we must also admit that the SHTF may not afford us the room for as much tolerance as today we can (but often fail) to give. A person who is "different" who can't be trusted to safely handles guns can be afforded a lot less tolerance in an armed camp... The same would be true of someone who calls attention to a covert camp...


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Bless their heart alot of our troops returning from war are on all kinds of meds they ptb put them on so they could stand to be in a war where you can only shoot back certain ones trying to kill you.Bush started this crap,roe got many killed.This new warmonger is keeping it going while he sets up muslims in power all over the middle east and here.
We'r up the creek!.No party,they are all party poopers on the laws of this nation.
I hope our vets keep a supply of their meds to come down when tshtf.


----------



## bastisolen (Mar 15, 2013)

Brain medication is also important not only for those who have this sort of mental problems. As much as possible, we should keep (take) these supplements for brain health more often. This really could help improve our brain.


----------



## nopolitics12 (Mar 20, 2013)

As someone who deals with jacked up brain chemistry 24/7/365 I feel the need to weigh in.

I've been diagnosed bipolar, but to be honest I have more of a rage control issue. But either way, I have a six month stockpile of one of the two drugs that I take to keep from beating the shite out of people. Before medication I used meditation to keep calm, and after my meds run out I'll have to go back to that, but I plan on rationing my meds as well as I can and still remain "sane". To be honest, I'm scared of what will happen once the meds run out. I'm unpredictable at best, and flat out dangerous at my worst when unmedicated. This problem cuts my family's chance of long term survival after SHTF in half.

On the bright side? I feel real damn sorry for the moron who tries to take what my family needs to survive.


----------



## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

I believe the current notion of normal is far too narrow, and far to many people have been convinced there is something wrong with them when the real problem is the social isolation generated by current norms. Withdrawal is not pleasant and can be managed for most non-critical drugs. Maturity and spirituality (meditation and prayer) can often achieve what even the strongest drugs cannot.

Individuals currently under medication may do well to consider increasing thier individual levels of maturity, partiularly delayed gratification and listening/attending skills. There is absolutely no need for the current demand that everyone pretend they are happy and well all the time.


----------



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

nopolitics12 said:


> As someone who deals with jacked up brain chemistry 24/7/365 I feel the need to weigh in.
> 
> I've been diagnosed bipolar, but to be honest I have more of a rage control issue. But either way, I have a six month stockpile of one of the two drugs that I take to keep from beating the shite out of people. Before medication I used meditation to keep calm, and after my meds run out I'll have to go back to that, but I plan on rationing my meds as well as I can and still remain "sane". To be honest, I'm scared of what will happen once the meds run out. I'm unpredictable at best, and flat out dangerous at my worst when unmedicated. This problem cuts my family's chance of long term survival after SHTF in half.
> 
> On the bright side? I feel real damn sorry for the moron who tries to take what my family needs to survive.


Thanks for your candor in sharing a sketch of your mental health history with us. Couple of questions, have you talked with a doctor or experimented to see what effect a half dose rationing will have? Some meds can be halved and be half as effective, others can not. Also other meds can become ineffective if not enough meds are getting to the brain, I understand.

Also, realizing WISELY the danger your condition poses to your family, do you have a survival group to help you keep them safe in the WROMeds world? If so do you have procedures in place to monitor your condition.



boomer said:


> I believe the current notion of normal is far too narrow, and far to many people have been convinced there is something wrong with them when the real problem is the social isolation generated by current norms. Withdrawal is not pleasant and can be managed for most non-critical drugs. Maturity and spirituality (meditation and prayer) can often achieve what even the strongest drugs cannot.


Indeed, my prayer for nopolitics and other preppers who suffer from mental health issues is that with a much quieter slower pace world, after the SHTF, they will be able to exorcise their demons and keep their families safe--that of course is a potential windfall from TEOTWAWKI.


----------



## nopolitics12 (Mar 20, 2013)

Padre said:


> Thanks for your candor in sharing a sketch of your mental health history with us. Couple of questions, have you talked with a doctor or experimented to see what effect a half dose rationing will have? Some meds can be halved and be half as effective, others can not. Also other meds can become ineffective if not enough meds are getting to the brain, I understand.
> 
> Also, realizing WISELY the danger your condition poses to your family, do you have a survival group to help you keep them safe in the WROMeds world? If so do you have procedures in place to monitor your condition.


My med can be taken at a half dose, and that is according to my doctor. Unfortunately, we do not have a group yet that could help my family should I become too unstable. My wife is a former EMTB, and has years of helping my doctor evaluate my meds. She knows how to "control" me for the most part when I lose control.

I did think we had another family we could group up with, but the woman of that family ended up having more problems than I do, and my wife and kids wouldn't have been safe with them should something happen to me. We're still looking.


----------

