# Gardening is a skill



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I am sure many of you are gardening professionals. I am not. Last year (2014) our garden was a couple dozen large pots and boxes on the patio. We had a pretty good yield considering, mostly tomatoes and peppers. Still our food coop supplied most of our fruits and vegetables (in exchange for money). This year our garden also included 2 raised bed garden boxes along with all the pots. Our yield was not so great. Not _horrible_, but not great. Considering we invested over twice the money and created perhaps 60-65% more "ground" to plant in, we did not get a good return on our investment. Fortunately the food coop continued to supplement our needs for consuming and canning. We did manage to produce a couple large pumpkins, a number of zucchinis, lots of tomatoes and lots of jalapenos. But many other plants didn't produce squat. Others never even made it to flowering. Bunnies were a major source of frustration, followed by bugs. I should add that this is not my garden but my enthusiastic wife's. She researched gardening, studied gardening, conferred with gardeners, conferred with horticulturists and toiled in that garden. Every step of the way she learned new skills, developed new strategies and came up with new solutions. But in the end this summer was more about learning how to garden than it was to produce lots of fruits and vegetables. Along the way she tried to educate me on gardening as well as her band of little helpers. We are all confident that next year we will do better. Next year we will have a large harvest.

All that is really the lesson here. People are not going to wake up on day to find the grocery stores closed and simply start planting sustainable food crops. You don't want to develop these types of skillets when your very survival depends on it. You want to develop them when the food coop is still making deliveries and the grocery store is still open. That's what I did. That's what I am doing. It is definitely a learning experience.


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## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

Amen on learning how to garden! I've been learning for four years now and will keep on learning even after the garden has to feed us. A gardener is a weatherman, a pest control specialist, a animal control specialist, apiarists, botanist, soil chemist, and psychic. That's after mastering the art of fixing equipment, inventing equipment and general maintenance. The comes the canning, drying and storing. Oh, and don't forget if there's no grocery stores then there's no place to buy plants or seeds so you've got to learn how to save seeds. Hopefully one of the first things learned is that hybrid plants don't produce viable seeds to replant.

When we think we just about got it figured out, Mother Nature throws us a curve ball and we scratch our head when (like this year) you did everything just right and can't get the plants to set fruit.

Yes, I'm glad that I didn't have to feed myself from the garden this year. I hope I've got another year or so to fine tune my learning before THSHTF.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

PS: I hate gardening. It's not in my nature. I would much rather be out killing something. But just like everything else in this world, it takes equal measure of balance and back up. The wife enjoys gardening. I could not begin to guess why. Maybe if there was such a thing as a Coke Zero plant.  I did however sit out on my patio a lot with a pellet rifle. That was fun.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Everything has a learning curve to it. We've been gardening for a couple years now and experiment every year with trying new ways of improving our yields.

This year we tried tomatoes grown around buckets, incredible yields with minimal watering. But some critter absolutely destroyed our corn crop (not deer). Our potatoes absolutely sucked this year. And this is the 3rd year in a row we've planted carrots and onions from seeds and got nothing. We can grow the heck out of some cucumbers, bell peppers and oakra. The wive is going crazy trying to figure out why her peas have yet to be fruitful....

If you don't start now or at least trying if and when things go south it'll be too late. It took us the better part of a year to break up our heavy clay soil and get it amended to where we like it. And this is using our tractor and other implements to prepare the ground. Try using a shovel, hoe and doing it by hand while trying to survive everything else going on around you! I'm still trying to figure out how to perform security while someone is working the fields or garden or tending the animals. There is no real way you can do this alone, unless you live on an island and won't have to worry about the zombie hordes...


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

My Grand parents got me into gardening in the 60's. I have had a garden almost every year since then. Gardening is a skill, and even after all these years I'm still learning new things.

I no longer half a pest problem in the garden. I dug a trough about 6 inches deep in the dirt around the entire garden and then buried the bottom foot (chicken wire is bent 6 inches down and extends away from the garden another 6 inches)of chicken wire in the trough. This keeps pests out of the garden by not allowing them to dig under the fence.

Insects have not been a big problem since I started planting Marigolds around the border of the garden (Insects don't like them).

I garden now in 11 4X8 razed beds. Each bed can have multiple different plants or all the same. On dry years I water twice a day and this year, because of all the rain I have only watered 3 times the whole year.

I have always produced more produce then we can eat. I have failed to preserve the excess so that we can eat garden produce all year.

Next year, the plan is to put a automatic watering system in and to start seeds earlier under grow lights ( I have done this years before, but got lazy).

Here's the advantage to maintaining a garden every year, I keep my skills up, and keep all the gardening tools and fencing available.

I can imagine how tough it would be to put the first garden in after SHTF. In fact I think it would almost impossible without the skill.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We've had a small garden with tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, & yellow crookneck most years for 10+ years. They've usually done fairly well & we're those people who put zucchini in unlocked cars in parking lots. This year we had a tiny garden at the property & things were totally different. We had beautiful squash plants with lots of pretty flowers but not one squash. The only things that did well were the peppers (bell & jalapeño) & the volunteer cantaloupe.  If we had to depend on that garden, we'd have starved. We'll be stocking some extra belts & suspenders!  And more food!


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

My wife is a much better gardener than I am and it is as much an art as a science sometimes. What I've learned over the years, is that it is definitely a numbers game in regard to being able to survive off a garden. Seems like you have to plant 3 times the amount to get half of what you need.

One year, we had a really nice corn crop coming in. Really nice... Looked at it, and we decided, it will be ready to pick tomorrow. Went out the next afternoon, and the raccoon's disagreed. It was ready the night before as far as they were concerned.

Raising your own food supply is a gamble and always has been, on so many levels. Today, when we have pesticides and herbicides, which might or might not be effective due to resistance, you still have all the old variables like weather or predation. So not much has really changed over a few thousand years.

But hey, we keep trying, right?


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> ...This year we had a tiny garden at the property & things were totally different. We had beautiful squash plants with lots of pretty flowers but not one squash... If we had to depend on that garden, we'd have starved...


Many people in East Texas have had a bad year. Even commercial farmers have had a bum crop and the chickens haven't been laying well, either.

It's been the heat and humidity.

"Potato Boxes" are 1x4 with 4 vertical stands and 1x4 slats one to two inches apart for a height of 2, 3, or 4 feet high. The square width can be anywhere from 12" to 24" to 36" so the box can be 24" x 24"x 24". Packed with composted soil, the seedlings/sprouts are placed between the horizontal slats. A cover crop can be placed on the top (marigolds, strawberries, etc.)

The whole thing can be placed on a plywood base extending 6" to 12" past the vertical stands. Chicken wire can be fixed for climbing and viny plants.

Remember to use all of your kitchen scraps for composting, egg shells dried and crushed, coffee grounds, tea bags, lawn clippings and any herbivore manure.

I put mine in a 30 gallon trash can with two rows of 1" holes drilled around the top of the can. Keep it moist (not wet) and shake it around, tumble or roll the barrel everyday for faster composting. Then add a few earthworms.

Good times, hoo'ah.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper (Aug 15, 2014)

tsrwivey said:


> We've had a small garden with tomatoes, peppers, zucchini, & yellow crookneck most years for 10+ years. They've usually done fairly well & we're those people who put zucchini in unlocked cars in parking lots. This year we had a tiny garden at the property & things were totally different. We had beautiful squash plants with lots of pretty flowers but not one squash. The only things that did well were the peppers (bell & jalapeño) & the volunteer cantaloupe.  If we had to depend on that garden, we'd have starved. We'll be stocking some extra belts & suspenders!  And more food!


This pretty much sums it up.

Any time you move a garden the micro climate and pest profiles change. Soil testing is really helpful, even if its just P,K,N,PH. In a new garden a complete mineral profile is helpful out of the starting gate. It can save years of guess work as to why something isn't growing or setting fruit and lets you know what to do about it.

A common problem is when people have to buy manure/compost; if it isn't from a known organic source, it is best to stay away from it. There is too much herbicide and dewormer residue in store bought compost. Again, stay away from farm compost if the farm isn't organic or the animals are fed feed from treated fields. Another contamination comes from all the composted lawn clippings added to the pile. Lawn clippings from all those weed free lawns are nothing but toxic waste.

Horse manure is full of dewormers and many backyard chicken farmers are worming their hens to death. Dewormers aren't as bad as the herbicides are, though. Once you mix some of these contaminated composts into your garden its a complete do over in a new spot.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

My wife designed the 4x8 raised beds and I made them out of cedar. She then had a Horticulturist (who lives down the street) come over and they made a mixture of stuff to fill them. I believe it was a combination of top soil, something called vermiculite, peat moss and compost. All of it came from the woman's organic nursery. Then we put down landscaping fabric around the boxes and covered that with cedar and cypress mulch. I even pounded posts and put a bunny fence around the whole area. After that all I did, other than listen to my wife talk about the garden in detail, I just watched over it with that pellet rifle. The Rotties helped with that too.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Agreed that some years just suck, no matter what you do. Last year was one of those years. 

Since we're tossing out "tips and tricks", a couple of my own.

*Onions* - _assuming you're using starter plants_. After ground is tended, lay black 6mil plastic (Lowes, HD, hardware store...) over the ground then poke small holes in the plastic and put your plants in through those holes. Your onions will come out twice as large compared to no plastic.

* Garlic* - Really likes rock phosphate.

* Weed control* - For vertical plants (e.g. tomatoes and peppers, not for viney/ground plants), I use road fabric (the 12' wide rolls of cloth that are put under new road surface to keep the stone separated from the dirt below it) to keep the weeds choked out. Cut a 3" X into the plastic and put my plants through the holes. For tomatoes, make sure you stake them instead of leaving on the ground as the plastic gets too hot and burns the tomatoes. _If 12' is too big for you (e.g. raised beds), you can get soil retention fabric like you see as a 2-3' tall wall on an excavation project instead._

* Manure* - Use cow instead of horse when available. The cow's digestive system does a better job of digesting seeds so they don't start growing out of the manure.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper (Aug 15, 2014)

Sentry

You are welcome to park your butt on my porch with the pellet gun. It needs to be a good one though, if you want to pick some pigeons off the barn roof for dinner. Every two years or so I have to do a pigeon cull. Once they get fattened up on my chicken feed, they go in the freezer. BBQ pigeon is yum. This year is a cull year.

Your wife should do some soil testing if she hasn't already. There is a lot of peat and vermiculite in your mix and the PH will be off for some veggies. Also, it will hold a lot moisture on a wet year. I am no expert, but that sounds more like a potting mix then a one size fits most of it, garden soil. Vermiculite is for water retention and soil texture but good compost is better. Since it will be added every year, the plots will get better. 

Sounds like you build a mean garden bed frame. Nice thing about raised beds, is that they are easier to maintain and very versatile. Back in the dark ages, in a previous garden, I made my beds four feet wide and twenty long. I could run the big rototiller down them until I got the clay balanced enough that tilling wasn't needed any more.

Some rebar pegs along the edges and pvc pipe and you can make miny green houses in an instant. If you have been particularly good at building flat edged frames, you can make sliding rails along them for the hoops and simply slide the canopy to one end accordion style when it isn't needed or things are getting too hot.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

We've been trying to raise gardens for years, mostly without a lot of success.. I have raised Siberian Kale that did really great in our climate, planted our whole field with Blue Lake bush beans one year, they were so close to each other that once they grew some leaves they didn't need watering, my wife canned 187 quarts of bean that year on the stove of our camping trailer, which we lived in for 17 years while building our home, that was interesting. We gave up trying to raise tomatoes due to cold nights causing bottom end rot and then last year we got about four yards of composted top soil, fenced the garden off and just through seeds in randomly, and planted a really good looking Giant Belgian Heirloom tomato plant and the garden produced abundantly, I call these gardens my accidental gardens, the only thing I do is to either move the spring overflow hose around or use bucket sprinkler to water the plants. This year is roughly the same, other than the tomatoes didn't want to ripen all that good, however they do when picked and brought into the house. So here we are into November and we are still getting squash and tomatoes out of the garden even after a mild frost one night a few weeks back. I don't claim to have a "Green Thumb", I just feel that God has blessed us with an accidental garden.


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

"Gardening is a skill" - truer words were never spoken.

I'm working the issue myself, living in an area with lousy soil and a short, harsh growing season. Last year it was potatoes in trash cans and an Elberta peach tree. Lost the peach tree to borers; have planted a new one that's struggling. Added two apples and a plum that are all doing well. Smarter with the potatoes this year...larger specimens and a larger crop. Also tried some tomatoes and tomatillos; learned a ton and look forward to trying again with those two next year.

Each year, we're trying new experiments in addition to growing those fruits and veggies that have proven to work in prior years. It's a never-ending learning process. I can't imagine starting this the day the grocery stores run out of stock.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

This year sucked for me, I changed how I garden & failed.
Good news is My blue berry, black berry, raspberry, garlic,asparagus, pear trees, persimmons,grapes, herbs & nut trees did well.
See a pattern:
1) I changed the way I annual garden(seeds planted in Spring).
I made very little.

2) My Perennial plants did very well, because I did not plant them THIS Spring.
So the change did not affect them.

3) I learned a lessen Again that wild changes should be backed up by old stand by's.

4) Perennials need so little that they are almost free, some water when it is really dry, compost & mulch twice a year.
A little pruning in the Fail. 

You will need less time for many fruiting perennials, grapes & raspberries are the most needy, with the pruning & staking.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

One day someone offered me a chance on a football board, I declined. He said “You don’t gamble?” Me… “Sure I do, the oldest form, farming!” It went something like that… lol

My grandpa came here to the farm in 1914. I didn’t start learning from him until the late 60’s. For 50 years he’d fed, clothed and raised children with what he grew. Now he was teaching his grandchildren.

I wrote the above to say three things to folks just starting out.
1. Some years it doesn’t matter what you do, your effort will fail due to weather, insects or the plague! Lol

2. Send a sample of your soil for testing, know exactly what state your soil is in! Without knowing this… you can buy the latest greatest product in the world… this or that… what the man at the garden center said would work…

If you don’t know exactly what condition/state your soil is in, you are just wasting money and time… a crapshoot! What you buy may be the worst thing in the world for what you are trying to grow in your soil.

3. Once you know the state of your soil you can easily add what is necessary to grow a specific plant species. Individual species of plants have different needs. What works for corn doesn’t necessarily work for water melons or peas! 

It starts with a fundamental knowledge and understanding of your soil. Once you completely understand that… you can grow anything, ruling out weather, insects or the plague! 

Peaches, dad had a 200 tree orchard when I moved back here to the farm. To put a peach in a basket at a farmers market takes lots of chemicals!! lots and lots of chemicals... just sayin!


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

We would add sawdust every 2-3 years to the garden and just till it in. Composts as it rots and kept the soil from compacting too much.


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

I am definitely not a professional. I started "gardening" by using large window boxes and flower pots and the basics of tomatoes radishes spinach and some herbs. 
the next year I added more containers and grew greenbeans and carrots. I was never out to have huge harvests but learning how to grow what I wanted to grow and how to improve the growth.
from there we made raised beds ( we have really crappy soil here) and I moved onto larger plants. again learning how to grow them.
I've learned how to grow a number of plants and have a better understanding of how much we would need for enough to not only feed us but also for preserving.
this has taken me years. figuring out what grows here well and when is a major point. this is why I won't buy those "survival" seeds containers. why buy something that I can't possibly grow here because we only have a certain amount of growing season? its silly and a waste of money


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Genevieve said:


> I am definitely not a professional. I started "gardening" by using large window boxes and flower pots and the basics of tomatoes radishes spinach and some herbs.
> the next year I added more containers and grew greenbeans and carrots. I was never out to have huge harvests but learning how to grow what I wanted to grow and how to improve the growth.
> from there we made raised beds ( we have really crappy soil here) and I moved onto larger plants. again learning how to grow them.
> I've learned how to grow a number of plants and have a better understanding of how much we would need for enough to not only feed us but also for preserving.
> this has taken me years. figuring out what grows here well and when is a major point. this is why I won't buy those "survival" seeds containers. why buy something that I can't possibly grow here because we only have a certain amount of growing season? its silly and a waste of money


Genevieve, can you grow watermelons Or do you even want too.
In OG Magazine they talk about putting down Black plastic to warm the beds so longer season annuals can have a head start. You would have to start the seeds indoors also.

I do not buy multi seed containers, but I do try new seeds to see what will grow in the heat of late Summer & Autumn.
Something are better in Late Autumn & early Spring.
Kale & beets do very well here.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

I grew three different kinds of watermelon here @ 1,400+ feet elevation with cool nights, Sugar Babies, Jubilee and some seeds from a seeded watermelon we bought at the grocery store. I got a few small Sugar Babies and a couple of fairly large Jubilee's, when I cut them open they were not all that red inside but they were sweet and tasted good, which is more than I can say for any watermelon we bought at the stores this summer. If I can grow them here in the inner coastal mountains of Oregon, anyone should be able to grow them in lower elevations with warmer night temps.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I stopped growing water melons or for that mater any kind of melon, squash or cucumbers. One thing that I know is that I can grow them only too well. All of them or any one of them will take over my garden in quick time smothering all the other plants.

In a SHTF situation I would have to plant them in another area of the yard at least 100 feet away from the other plants and grow them by themselves.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

We put out a single watermelon plant this year and harvested 8 big melons. It spread out over 40ft in each direction. Partially because we didn't prune it we had never grown melons before. We now know to trim the vines after each vine has a melon established.

We went to close out the garden this weekend pulling wire cages, buckets, t posts, and we ended pulling all these peppers from the garden before I hit it with the tiller. Need to add some compost from the pile and till it again and i'll leave it be for the winter...


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I was raised into gardening every year. We grew usually 6-8 vegetables and of course had our regular fruit tree staples. I always thought I had a good grip on raising a garden until I tried it on my own. Years ago after moving out of my parents place I decided to build my own garden. It was a huge failure. Barely anything grew. I read and studied everything I could and still only got marginal success. Everything from pests, animals, to just poor soil plagued me. Then one day an old hippie friend of the family stopped by for a visit. This man in his younger days was a guerrilla marijuana grower. I just want to say the tips and tricks I learned from him blew my mind. He taught me everything from how to keep deer away naturally to how to amend the soil as I planted. Taught me about soil acidicity. Proper soil aeration for certain plants. Taught me safe natural pest sprays. The wealth of knowledge this man gave me was quite incredible. I always thought these old hippies just went in the woods and threw seeds in the ground. Thanks to him I have started looking into "guerilla" patches if the shtf. Lots of things could be planted amongst wild plants to blend in in nature to prevent gardens from being completely wiped out. He told me years ago his motto was to never "put all your eggs into one basket". That got me to thinking that in a bad situation one big garden would be a huge red flag to hungry people passing by. 20 gardens blended into native vegetation though would almost insure a successful harvest. Even if I do have one main garden when times get bad I will always make sure to have at least a handful of these "guerrilla" gardens scattered about.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Gardening is a skill & so is hunting, if you live near a wood lot of 3-100 acres then your garden may bring you things to hunt to eat & protect your peas & beans.


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## IceFire (Feb 24, 2016)

Gardening is a skill with a definite learning curve. Add into that, each area has it's own "microclimate", as well as soil structure, pH, etc. I've gardened for decades (grew up gardening with my Mom and Grandma, and I'm STILL learning new things every year!) as well as all over the country. Not only does each area have it's own unique characteristics, but each PLANT has it's own requirements, as well. That's why some crops will do very well in a given area, while others fail. The solution is to amend the soil in a particular bed to suit the crop(s) you are trying to grow there.

As an example: our soil here tends to be rather alkaline. Blueberries, cranberries, roses, and "bramble" fruits prefer a more acidic soil. The solution? The beds where I plant these (as permaculture plantings) are amended with sulphur to lower the pH. I also mulch those beds with used coffee grounds.

When we were in a different area, the soil tended to be quite acidic. to get corn to grow decently, I had to add lime (LOTS of it) to the bed where the corn was planted, while leaving other areas without.

Also, our soil here is very deficient in organic matter, so when I work up the soil, I have to add LOTS of organic matter (I currently use rabbit manure and composted horse and chicken manure, since that is what I have "on hand". As I acquire other livestock, their manure will be added, as well.)

Learn the needs of the various things you are trying to grow, and plant things with similar needs together. Google "companion planting" and learn which plants go well together, and which plants are "enemies". (For example, members of the onion family exude a substance which, while repelling many pests and being good companions for most crops, actually inhibit the growth of beans and peas.) Also, some plants do better when it is cool out (peas, lettuce, spinach, root vegetables, and members of the cabbage family), while others like things much warmer (tomatoes, peppers, squash, melons, corn, cukes, etc.)

Gardening is part art, part science (soil and water chemistry), part "instinct", and a LOT of hard work, with a steep learning curve. Add in the "curve balls" that Mother Nature likes to throw in (Drought, floods, hail, massive insect invasion, etc.) Better to start learning NOW, when your survival does NOT depend on a successful garden, then struggling to grow enough to feed yourself and your family when TSHTF.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Copy and paste from IceFire's reply
Gardening is part art, part science (soil and water chemistry), part "instinct", and a LOT of hard work, with a steep learning curve. Add in the "curve balls" that Mother Nature likes to throw in (Drought, floods, hail, massive insect invasion, etc.) Better to start learning NOW, when your survival does NOT depend on a successful garden, then struggling to grow enough to feed yourself and your family when TSHTF. 

This is one of the best descriptions of how gardening actually is.

"I'll just grow a garden if things get bad" from someone who has no actual experience almost makes me ROTF laugh


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> Copy and paste from IceFire's reply
> Gardening is part art, part science (soil and water chemistry), part "instinct", and a LOT of hard work, with a steep learning curve. Add in the "curve balls" that Mother Nature likes to throw in (Drought, floods, hail, massive insect invasion, etc.) Better to start learning NOW, when your survival does NOT depend on a successful garden, then struggling to grow enough to feed yourself and your family when TSHTF.
> 
> This is one of the best descriptions of how gardening actually is.
> ...


I agree.
We grow more in two gardens then four families at the BOL can use.
People do not understand why I grow so much & give it away.
One I love gardening, even when it breaks my heart to hope & sweat for so little return.

Two I do not need this much now, but if & when I do it will be like Wednesday
300 year ago.
It will be an every day thing.
As soon as I cut the timber, I am planting more fruit trees & some hardwood seedling.


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