# Buying Gold/Silver



## TechAdmin

Where do you buy physical Gold and Silver? Coin dealers only? Can you buy straight from the US Mint?


----------



## bkt

Dean said:


> Where do you buy physical Gold and Silver? Coin dealers only? Can you buy straight from the US Mint?


The U.S. mint no longer uses precious metals in the production of our coins.

The Franklin Mint and I think the mint at West Point still use precious metals for commemorative and bullion gold and silver coins.

Coin stores are usually a pretty good way to go. Unless the ones near you are raping you on charging way over spot prices, I'd go that route.


----------



## TechAdmin

Any better options besides coins when trying to buy physical gold/silver in low amounts? Like 1000 at a time.


----------



## coinguy

Your local coin dealer is probably the best choice. Due to the most unusual market this month, unlike anything I have seen in my 35 years as a coin dealer, they may be out or in very short supply. Larger dealers are in the same boat right now. You cannot buy from the mint, other than proof editions of the bullion coins. The US mint is out of gold and silver right now, suspending production on several products and limiting shipment of others. That is with the largest, by far, mintages of ANY year of the American Eagle series. http://www.find-your-local-coin-shop.com/ is a website to help you find a shop. The larger dealers I have refered customers to when I could not handle the order are all out or just taking orders for delivery later. If you would lilke recommends for the type of coins to look for, LMK

Glen


----------



## opencurrency

*Lakota Currency...*

I have access to the Free Lakota Bank currency. I know that they're charging spot + $5.22 for most orders, but you can get 1000oz at spot + $4. This is less than the premiums found on ebay coins and bullion. Free shipping too. Let me know if you're interested.


----------



## TechAdmin

How do you know that the purity is good? Never heard of those coins. coinguy do you know about them?


----------



## fachento

*Why gold and silver?*

I'm very well aware that silver and gold are considered precious metals, and are often used as a store of wealth while markets take a down-turn.

However, if we're talking about more than just a down-turn in society... wouldn't other things have far greater inherent value? Like food, clothing, shelter, medicine, etc?

If things got really bad, you couldn't eat, wear, or shelter under your stock of gold -- and you couldn't trade your gold for any of those three to anyone who realized the same things?

So, is the buying of gold and silver intended as a short-term store of wealth while the economy flounders, or are you counting on using it as de-facto currency?

Fachento


----------



## TechAdmin

Both to me. Even though commodities will be useful in the very short term Gold/Silver would be value both short and long.


----------



## Narsil

fachento said:


> However, if we're talking about more than just a down-turn in society... wouldn't other things have far greater inherent value? Like food, clothing, shelter, medicine, etc?


The problem with that scenario is that the barter system rarely works well for long. The barter system only works when the two people involved have precisely the right quantity of specific items that the other wants. Suppose someone comes to you wanting to trade ammunition for aspirin. You, being the smart cookie that you are, stockpiled both aspirin and ammunition. Your root cellar has 15,000 rounds of ammunition. You probably aren't going to want more ammunition, especially since the ammo he's got isn't the right caliber for your guns. What you really need is some clothes for your three year-old. You have something he wants but he has nothing you want. The barter system doesn't work in that scenario.

This is why things that have intrinsic value (but little practical usefulness) like precious metals make such useful trade medium. In the above scenario, instead of bartering, you can sell him some aspirin for 0.05 Troy ounces of .999 sterling silver, take that silver to someone who makes children's clothes and use it to buy what you need.


----------



## TechAdmin

Also just because our economy is in the dumps means you could still maybe find people who buy gold/silver for other currencies worth money who then export it.


----------



## coinguy

fachento said:


> So, is the buying of gold and silver intended as a short-term store of wealth while the economy flounders, or are you counting on using it as de-facto currency?
> 
> Fachento


Both. I figure when 'it' happens, it won't be overnight. It may well be a short time however. If, for instance, the current situation keeps getting worse, a store of gold/silver would help you get through it. You currently probably can't barter for your mortgage, electric bill or gas at the quickymart. I don't have a box to check on my mortgage statement for the amount of gold I am sending them this month. Unca sugar's response has been to pump HUGH amounts of bogus cash into the economy. That WILL lead to massive inflation and gold/silver will grow in value against a paper 'dollar.' If, however, it keeps getting worse, at some point money won't be of much use, no one may be using 'dollars' and barter will take over. Then your stores will be of greater value to you.

Gold and silver do have at least a 6000 year history of holding value in all kinds of situations. Of course so does food.

I do have a number of barter items on the shelves, including lots of booze. Now, no one in my family is a drinker. So why have it? Can you think of something that may hold a greater value to someone that just has to have a drink? I have boxes of ammo in calibers I don't have a gun in. Since I load/shoot over 30 calibers, I still find others to stash. Good trade material for someone needing those calibers.

You just have to think 'outside the envelope' about those things that will be good 'currency' if and when TEOTWAWKI happens.

G


----------



## fachento

Narsil said:


> The problem with that scenario is that the barter system rarely works well for long. The barter system only works when the two people involved have precisely the right quantity of specific items that the other wants.


I (politely) disagree - I think the barter system is less bound to "exact" quantities of what either party wants than a system based on currency, even currency made from pure precious metals. Even the value of a gold coin in that same situation would vary, depending on who you asked. So, maybe the person who has ammunition and wants aspirin (this is starting to sound like my Economics Professor) doesn't have clothes for an infant, but has 1 dozen mason jars of canned peaches instead. Suppose you know a tailor who has been looking for canned peaches. I believe that such flexibility is more likely to be found in a bartering situation.

Try that when you go to the grocery store: "Well, I don't have US currency/gold/silver to pay, but I DO have a 50 pound bag of wheat in my truck - and you can take that down to Fred who lives the next town over - and he'll gladly pay you handsomely for it." 

In a situation where financial institutions have become unreliable places to store value... I'd gladly chose a 50 lb bag of seeds for a nourishing food crop, which I can plant, and multiply with a little sweat.

The bartering system may not have fared well for long in the past -- but I think that is not so much because bartering itself is flawed - more often the goods we barter are flawed (coin and paper currency have a longer shelf-life than, say, a crate of apples, or a gallon of milk... and therefore are more likely to hold their value longer). I might keep around a few gold coins, but I wouldn't come close to hedging my bets on it. When push comes to shove, gold is worthless to me if I'm just looking for the basics.

-Fachento


----------



## coinguy

Dean said:


> How do you know that the purity is good? Never heard of those coins. coinguy do you know about them?


I've seen these, and similar 'coins' of this type. All have been the right weight/purity. I think if you want to have and use them, great, but I would not pay a higher premium for them than another recognized 'round' from someone else, unless you are either supporting the cause or want to collect them. Bullion is one thing, numismatics and collectables are another.

There have been numerous 'free currencies' introduced by people all over the world. The earliest were the Silver Eagles Nest and the coins from the Republic of Minerva. In the 90's there was another Indian nation that marked coins with a face value, promising to 'redeem' them for a certain period of time. Liberty Lobby has made tokens for a number of years in a similar vein. Today we have the Liberty Dollar. I have some just because I like variety and they interest me. However unless you want to collect them, I would not put a greater value on them than other bullion type items. Sorry if you are a supporter of the Liberty Dollar, but I went round and round with Bernard face to face for the better part of a week, when we both had booths at a convention across from each other. That one sounds like nothing more than a multi-level marketing scheme to me. Personal opinion, not meaning to step on anyone's toes. Not that I don't agree with a sound currency, I just think it should be an equal exchange rather that a way to make a percentage or mark-up on every transaction. I don't take paper currency in for less that I spend it for - why should we encourage people to do that in the name of a sound currency?

G


----------



## Jezcruzen

Narsil said:


> The problem with that scenario is that the barter system rarely works well for long. The barter system only works when the two people involved have precisely the right quantity of specific items that the other wants. Suppose someone comes to you wanting to trade ammunition for aspirin. You, being the smart cookie that you are, stockpiled both aspirin and ammunition. Your root cellar has 15,000 rounds of ammunition. You probably aren't going to want more ammunition, especially since the ammo he's got isn't the right caliber for your guns. What you really need is some clothes for your three year-old. You have something he wants but he has nothing you want. The barter system doesn't work in that scenario.
> 
> This is why things that have intrinsic value (but little practical usefulness) like precious metals make such useful trade medium. In the above scenario, instead of bartering, you can sell him some aspirin for 0.05 Troy ounces of .999 sterling silver, take that silver to someone who makes children's clothes and use it to buy what you need.


Gold will only retain it's allure and value as long as someone sees value in having it. In some circumstances, I could imagine a gold "round" not being worth a good pair of work boots or a mule. If someone is starving it might not be worth a loaf of bread. It all depends on circumstances.

I would think that gold is a great hedge during a temporary period of economic termoil as long as a common financial system remains once the termoil is over. If there is no system remaining and goods and services are the new currency, interest in gold will flounder. After all, if my kids were starving, I may rather have a sack of potatoes than a Krugarrand.

There's another issue with attempting to use presious metals as currency. How does one know it's genuine unless a method of testing is available? Some might have access to this resource. Most would not.

Just the opinion of a non-expert.


----------



## TechAdmin

As a non-expert as well I think Gold has historically shown to keep value even in horrible times. Seems like a safe bet to put a little as investment into just encase.


----------



## Narsil

Jezcruzen said:


> Gold will only retain it's allure and value as long as someone sees value in having it.


Actually, precious metals will always retain value. It is commodities that have no value other than what people place on them. You may not find someone with whom to buy or sell, but the value of the metal is in its rarity. How much value depends on a number of factors but no society that I have ever heard of considered gold or silver to be worthless.

Precious metals, most commonly gold, silver, and copper have been used as currency for millenia. To the best of my knowledge it has only been in the last century that any major civilization has abandoned currency based on precious metals. Most of the financial problems we are having right now can be traced back to overextended credit and, indirectly, the fact that the US dollar (along with most, if not all, first-world countries) are no longer based on anything other than our collective trust in our governments.

I am no great history buff, but I am not aware of any civilization that lasted long using a barter system. Every one that I have read about ended up very quickly going to currency made of some sort of precious metal. The odd exceptions were some small islands and such with wooden coins (no idea how they prevented counterfeit fraud) and/or shells and beads. Even they didn't keep it that way for too long once Europeans introduced the concept of coinage.

While I agree that you will always be able to trade with people, I think it is foolhardy to ignore the benefits of precious metals.


----------



## Frank

Well said narsil

I would ask you to expand upon that thought and educate further but I fear you will be shut down for sharing your knowledge.


----------



## Natalie

Is gold/silver a good investment or capital gains taxes reduce its value too much to be one?


----------



## Woody

Howdy folks.

I don’t think anyone is saying to put all your assets into buying gold or silver. It is just good to have a variety of things on hand, you never know what will have value.

Barter is great, IF you can find a group honest enough to work with. I was in a barter group of friends for many years and things did work out pretty good. But, someone always seemed to give more than others and some really didn’t have much to bring to the table but were benefiting anyway. You really need to find a diverse group to have an efficient barter community.

I’m putting stock in various “assets.” Gold, silver yes but tools also. I have construction/destruction hand powered tools. Gardening tools along with many different seeds and such saved from my own garden. And I also have skills to trade.

Keep your options as varied as possible to cover all the bases. Remember, folks will need food, water, safety and shelter before they will need the things they thought they needed today.


----------



## dunappy

I buy silver regularly in the form of Jewelry. Our area is full of Jewlers and there is tons of sterling silver available locally. Gold on the other hand Isn't used much here and is harder to get. I don't make it a major part of my investments, but I have certain pieces of jewelry that I can barter away if I need to. My biggest investment however has been in Ammo.


----------



## BlackPaladin

Run on gold coins:

GOVERNMENTS CAN'T HANDLE GLOBAL RUN ON GOLD COINS - New York Post


----------



## charleybundrum

*Why gold/silver*

I could go on all day. Here is a few thoughts.

Regional problems, I have to leave my house in New Orleans because the river is overflowing. I grab 8 oz of gold ( current value approx 6400 and 8 oz of silver approx value 88.00) That's a lot of jack that fits into a small space. That much cash in anything other than hundreds is a lot of paper. This can be redeemed at most coin shops with little to no Questions asked.

The same goes if you have to leave the country. your 200 k in gold will be gladly accepted in Europe. I once read about a family who fled Vietnam during the war.
They showed up here with the clothes on there back and a small bag of gold bullion. The bullion was worth 30 k at the time. They started a small business in LA.

When atms fail, Your banked closed, you have been sued into oblivion you have options.

Charley

P.S This is my first post, howdy all


----------



## Publius

bkt said:


> The U.S. mint no longer uses precious metals in the production of our coins.
> 
> The Franklin Mint and I think the mint at West Point still use precious metals for commemorative and bullion gold and silver coins.
> 
> Coin stores are usually a pretty good way to go. Unless the ones near you are raping you on charging way over spot prices, I'd go that route.


Here's the funny thing. The U.S. Mint does sell Platinum, Gold and Silver coins. The Eagle, but if you go to the U.S. Mint site and click on Coins and Medals, it has a link to authorized dealers, but if you click online shopping and then American Eagles they have those. The Silver proofs are out of stock as of now.


----------



## ZandarKoad

*Last time I checked...*

I think everyone is underestimating the utility of Gold and Silver coins minted by the U.S. Treasury. Article I, Section 10 of the National Constitution clearly sets the form and specie of money in This Land, to wit: "No State shall... make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts;" Furthermore, USC Title 5 Section 5112 governs what is considered Legal Tender by what is commonly referred to as the U.S. Government.


----------



## ssholl

Hi coinguy!
Thanks for all your great posts. You've suggested buying eagles, buffs, and k. My local coin shop says that he sells pesos at spot, and that they have the same amount of gold. Is there any reason not to buy them if I'm just buying them for the gold?
Thanks!


----------



## endurance

I just found a good, cheap source of junk silver. I just placed my first order with them, so I can't say how good a company they are to do business with, but you certainly can't find a cheaper silver round than this.

Not to be compared directly to eagles because they're not a full ounce, but probably less of a premium over spot and most folks wouldn't know the difference in a barter situation between a morgan and eagle.


----------



## The_Blob

my question still is "just _*what*_ do you want the gold/silver _*for*_ ?" is it to buy things you know you need, or is it to just be generally prepared in case of catastrophic economic collapse?

IMO in either case, investing in _*yourself*_ is a wiser choice, which just happens to have the side effect of diversifying your assets.


----------



## Canadian

Blob - Investing in yourself is cool but everyone still needs to buy something on occasion. That means having a form of currency people want. In an economic collapse that's gold and silver.


----------



## spacestuff4me

*Finding Free Silver Kennedy 1/2 dollars*

I've been getting quite a bit of silver Kennedy 1/2 dollars by ordering $2000-3000 from multiple banks. I just went through $9000 in 1/2 dollars, that took me about 2 days to go through and I found $183 in face value of 90% & 40% silver coins. I also found about 75 proof coins, about 30 mint errors and some MS-65 coins. I'm going to sell the proofs, MS and error coins on Ebay and make some profit there, to offset the silver coins I've kept.

The great thing is after going through these rolls, you just take it back to the bank and get cash for the ones that aren't worth more than face. In the last 2 months of ordering about $20k of Kennedy 1/2 dollars, I've been able to add about $500 in face value silver for 1/10th the cost of silver and I don't have to pay a premium.

One great bonus is after ordering $3500 in 1/2 dollars from a bank in a nearby city, the bank manager asked why I wanted them. I told her I was collecting some and she told me that a local gentleman brings in about $500-700 in Kennedy 1/2 dollars every month. She told me all of the coins were "older" and that she would call me everytime he brings in his bags because it would save her a lot of hassle in having to deal with them. Hopefully there will be some gems in that load.

BTW, I also have a nice collection of gold & silver coins and I bought most of it when silver was $5-6 an ounce and gold was $300-350. I've sold off some silver to buy ammo, guns, some freeze dried food and other sensible preparedness stuff that I'll use regardless. Like others have said, you can't eat gold or silver and while it's a great commodity to protect you as a hedge, it's worthless if you can't feed or house your family.

Times are going to get real bad, real soon and you'd better make some serious preps to protect yourself, your family and your neighbors because you'll need a cohesive group of like minded people to help protect your neighborhood if the SHTF. For most of us with homes and kids, it's impossible to pick up and leave, unless there's a catastrophic event, so the best place to prepare is in your own neighborhood with friends.


----------



## pdx210

bkt said:


> The U.S. mint no longer uses precious metals in the production of our coins.


looks like they are not producing them in 2009 as for 2010?

U.S. Mint Online Product Catalog


----------



## pdx210

coinguy said:


> Gold and silver do have at least a 6000 year history of holding value in all kinds of situations.


there are also decades where metals like gold/ silver stagnate if you purchased gold in 1978 @ 600.00 Oz and held it it would have taken 30 years 2006-07 for gold to hit the 600.00 Oz again and break even on your principal investment.

Gold Price History

However, you would have lost money (buying power) because the rate of inflation over that time (about 216%) has dwarfed the value of gold that 600.00 now cost you over 1,900 and gold closed today at 1121.6 that means you would still be in the hole 778.00 on lost buying power

Inflation Calculator: Money's Real Worth Over Time - Coin News


----------



## sailaway

I'll say it again, The Bible says the best investment you can make is in your own business!


----------



## Expeditioner

sailaway said:


> I'll say it again, The Bible says the best investment you can make is in your own business!


Amen Sailaway!!!!:2thumb:


----------



## Woody

And I take care of business by minding my own business.


----------



## MasterSergeantUSAF

I like your philosophy, Woody. Tools....how many city folk could even utilize a lawn rake let alone a post-holer? The person with tools and the knowledge of their use is a valuable person, indeed. Then again, I'm just some dumb farm boy from Kansas, I could be wrong.


----------



## UncleJoe

That's why I have a small collection of old, hand-powered farm tools.


----------



## greaseman

*silver/ gold*

I've had pretty good luck buying junk silver and gold at a local coin shop. I've bought so much junk silver from them, they give me the best exchange rates they can. Also, as I pay cash, there is virtually no record of my purchase. i like that. At the present time, there is still a roughly 50/50 ratio of buyers and sellers of junk silver at this particular shop. I just have to continually check in.

I like buying local, as it supports the local businessman, and he in turn spends that money locally. I'm a strong believer in keeping the money local.

I also buy some gold at this store. Most of the time, I can only buy a little, as gold is so much more expensive. as long as this dealer is competitive, I'll buy from him.

I like the idea of getting coins from the banks, and checking them for valuable ones. Inginuity at work, I love it. good luck, and good hunting.


----------



## Ponce

For those of you that are thinking of trading wisky, ammo or guns for something else.........DON'T DO IT.......they will drink the wisky and then use the guns to return back at you all those bullets and take what you have.

If you trade to much of something valuable they will come after it....I for one go three times a week to the "Senior Thrieft Store" and buy a bag full of clothing for $3.00 (used to be $2.00) at this time I have about 175 bags of almost like new clothing to trade with.

About PM.......at first cash will be more valuable because the sheeps is all that they know, at a later date THEN PM will become more tradable.

Because of the above I would hold A LOT OF CASH for there will be many bargains to be found........don't buy at the first wave of bargains but for the second or third when the real bargains will come out.......you will know, or should know, when the time is right.


----------



## greaseman

I have a feeling that depending on the circumstances, there will be many strange things turn out to be a valuable means of exchange. Barter will be taken to a whole new level.
I think the government will have trouble collecting taxes in the traditional way, as so many people will be dead broke, and have no income whatsoever. I could certainly see clothing being a great barter item, especially in the colder climates. For many though, storage would be a problem. But even in city areas, in small places, chickens can be raised for meat and eggs, and survive on very little feed. I live on a 1/2 acre building lot, and have raised chickens before. The popularity of home grown food has become a very hot commodity. people like to know where their food comes from. I think that people will become very ingenious in coming up with ways to barter for items.

But, on the other side of the spectrum, there will be masses of people from the cities, roaming the byways, begging for a handout. Not meaning to sound cruel, but to feed these people willl be like feeding a stray dog. You won't be able to get rid of them. I appologize for the wording, but the truth is the truth. I personally will have to feed family members who don't believe anything like chaos could ever happen. My warnings have been met by eye rolls, and snickers. I will feed them, but you can bet your ass they will hear about it. Besides, I will need their help to protect what I do have.

I agree with the minding your own business thing. The less peopleknow about what I have, the better. On the banking front, I intend to slowly make my bank account dissapear. I believe that any cash left in the bank, other than what's nedded for daily expenses, will be subject to be taken by the government sooner or later. This idea has already been demonstrated to me. In 2009, we got that ridiculous $250 check from the government for something, and one day, it just showed up in my checking account, right from the US Treasury. Folks, if they can put it in there, they can take it out. with the passage of the new health Care bill, how do you think they plan to make you pay for it?? Do you see the rest of the story guys?? Make you money dissapear. if it isn't in the bank, it doesn't exist.

Sorry about more than one theme in my post, but it's all connected. Good luck.


----------



## greaseman

MasterSergeantUSAF said:


> I like your philosophy, Woody. Tools....how many city folk could even utilize a lawn rake let alone a post-holer? The person with tools and the knowledge of their use is a valuable person, indeed. Then again, I'm just some dumb farm boy from Kansas, I could be wrong.


 you make a great point. The knowledge to use the tools is just as important as owning them. I feel fortunate to have friends that are knowledgeable about many different trades, from electrical to computers, and everything in between. Among all the other things that need to be done, I'm thinking I need to learn more about stuff that I might need to know more about should the SHTF. I think I better update a better checklist of things to do.

One thing for sure, I keep buying precious metals, food, ammo, and anything else I can think of that might come in usefull when hard times come. A lot of family thinks I'm a little strange, but we'll see what they think in a few more months. I don't really think things can stay as they are much longer.


----------



## UncleJoe

Greaseman, Here is someone that agrees with you.

It's Official - America Now Enforces Capital Controls
This is not something I say lightly after reviewing this information and reinforcing the commentary from the Rangel rule which restricted and penalized voluntary emigration and/or renunciation of one's citizenship from the United States.

If you can, even if it means a 75% loss of your fortunes, get out now.

If you have a universal skill set (Programmer, trader, medical skills, security skills, etc.) and can relocate with little resources, get out now.

If you have real estate holdings in certain nations (not Canada or Mexico) get out now.

The precursor to most major shifts within western civilization have always been the restrictions placed on the flow of capital. Without going off into woo-woo land on you, all I can say is that this is a warning shot that something major is about to occur which further restricts the freedoms of the citizens of this once great nation. When I did my radio show, I warned that this one event, a key moment or marker in any nation's history was something to be taken deadly seriously. In my opinion it means that a currency realignment or change or outright revocation of rights taken for granted was certain with a 90 day, maybe if we're lucky, 180 day window.

One more time:

If you can escape, do it now.

Good luck to all and God Bless.

If you can leave the United States, I would suggest you GET OUT NOW | Shenandoah


----------



## pdx210

LOL..

here's the thing, where are you going to go ?


----------



## UncleJoe

:dunno: Stock up on everything you can before inflation kicks in, or our fiat money is revalued.


----------



## BasecampUSA

*Monetary collapse...*

Good advice that will soon prove to be correct...

Seriously, next year will be the "year of money" -- many economies will collapse, the US Dollar and the Euro are on the verge of collapsing right now.

I was in the Soviet Union on business in 1990 when the Rubel was devalued overnight without advance notice! Suddenly a 100 Rubel note was worth only 10 Rubels !! There were riots and runs on food and supplies everywhere, all supermarkets I saw were empty.

What if... yes the unthinkable... a $100 bill suddenly was worth $10 within one week... it could happen and probably will.

An alternative would be Gold and Silver...

Im an industrail engineer, and silver is an industrial commodity among other metals. 
So I personally lean toward what I understand as more stable in the long run.

*Silver bullion...










1, 5, 10, and 100 ounce


















1 ounce, breakable into 1/4 ounces*

Soon after the "slide" in 2008, I took my life savings of $80K and put it into these when silver was $10.75 / oz. -- right now it is at $30.25 / oz., almost tripling my investment.

Knowledgeable people in the industry say silver will more than likely go over $50 / oz. next year.

Not only is this a hedge against inflation, it is a huge pay-back in a relatively risk-free investment.

-- Basey

PS... keep it secure, I keep mine in a safe deposit box in my bank - even if there is a run on the bank, they can't prevent you from accessing your box.


----------



## greaseman

BasecampUSA said:


> Good advice that will soon prove to be correct...
> 
> Seriously, next year will be the "year of money" -- many economies will collapse, the US Dollar and the Euro are on the verge of collapsing right now.
> 
> I was in the Soviet Union on business in 1990 when the Rubel was devalued overnight without advance notice! Suddenly a 100 Rubel note was worth only 10 Rubels !! There were riots and runs on food and supplies everywhere, all supermarkets I saw were empty.
> 
> What if... yes the unthinkable... a $100 bill suddenly was worth $10 within one week... it could happen and probably will.
> 
> An alternative would be Gold and Silver...
> 
> Im an industrail engineer, and silver is an industrial commodity among other metals.
> So I personally lean toward what I understand as more stable in the long run.
> 
> *Silver bullion...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1, 5, 10, and 100 ounce
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 ounce, breakable into 1/4 ounces*
> 
> Soon after the "slide" in 2008, I took my life savings of $80K and put it into these when silver was $10.75 / oz. -- right now it is at $30.25 / oz., almost tripling my investment.
> 
> Knowledgeable people in the industry say silver will more than likely go over $50 / oz. next year.
> 
> Not only is this a hedge against inflation, it is a huge pay-back in a relatively risk-free investment.
> 
> -- Basey
> 
> PS... keep it secure, I keep mine in a safe deposit box in my bank - even if there is a run on the bank, they can't prevent you from accessing your box.


 One thing I disagree with. Do not under any circumstance put your valuables in a safe deposit box. The historical safety of your stuff isn't on your side. Read history, it will tell you the truth. In the depression, when banks failed, they closed, and didn't re-open for months. When they did, everyones safety deposit box had beeen cleaned out by order of the government. Everything---gone. Do you trust these sob's to look out for your valuables? Take physical possession of your metals, and bury them in the ground, or something of that nature. The government is not looking out for you, and they want everything you have.
The only way to beat these guys is to seperate yourself from them as much as possible. to each his own. I don't trust any of these scumbags. Why would you want to trust your financial future to a bunch of thieving sob's?


----------



## greaseman

In the coming days, when the problems start, many items will hold vale very well. precious metals are just leg of the chair. All the items that have been talked about before are great for keeping as preps. I try to have some of all of them. Just try to be as well rounded as possible.


----------



## vn6869

OK Base, you told us you got in low - don't need to rub it in . . . LOL

Unfortunately, the genius I am, I bought silver at $4.35 and traded for gold at $12.**, had I known . . . 

Still kept some, but not enough !! :scratch 

Now my source - a local coin store - has closed (retirement don't ya know) and I'm scrambling to find a supplier. :sssh:


----------



## BasecampUSA

vn6869 said:


> OK Base, you told us you got in low - don't need to rub it in . . . LOL
> 
> Unfortunately, the genius I am, I bought silver at $4.35 and traded for gold at $12.**, had I known . . .
> 
> Still kept some, but not enough !! :scratch
> 
> Now my source - a local coin store - has closed (retirement don't ya know) and I'm scrambling to find a supplier. :sssh:


Hey that won't prevent me from buying more...
My old man just passed away last month and left me 88k plus his house...
The cash is all going right into silver now before TSHTF !
According to most insiders, silver could go to $50/oz by summer.
There's still time to profit by it, BUT anyway you look at it, paper
money is a loser, and Bank CD's are paying only a max of 3.8% for a
5 year tie-up of your money. Inflation will eat it up before it matures!

@ greaseman... I've been thinking about this for a while, and I agree.
It would probably be safer in my own safe. I believe I'll do that, thanks!
I've got a real old safe that I put through the big side door of the railcar 
I turned into a bunker before I buried it. It's too big to go through the 
end door I cut for an entrance, so no one could drag it off (it weighs 
1200# anyway). It's just hard as hell to open even with the complicated 
combination... if I need to get at the dough, I may have to crack my 
own safe  :scratch

- Basey


----------



## lhalfcent

BasecampUSA said:


> Hey that won't prevent me from buying more...
> My old man just passed away last month and left me 88k plus his house...
> The cash is all going right into silver now before TSHTF !
> According to most insiders, silver could go to $50/oz by summer.
> There's still time to profit by it, BUT anyway you look at it, paper
> money is a loser, and Bank CD's are paying only a max of 3.8% for a
> 5 year tie-up of your money. Inflation will eat it up before it matures!
> 
> @ greaseman... I've been thinking about this for a while, and I agree.
> It would probably be safer in my own safe. I believe I'll do that, thanks!
> I've got a real old safe that I put through the big side door of the railcar
> I turned into a bunker before I buried it. It's too big to go through the
> end door I cut for an entrance, so no one could drag it off (it weighs
> 1200# anyway). It's just hard as hell to open even with the complicated
> combination... if I need to get at the dough, I may have to crack my
> own safe  :scratch
> 
> - Basey


the last few days i been really motivated to buy silver. I am going to take 300 bucks or so from fridays paycheck and buy coins. I am thinking junk silver? because that is what people will recognize better at first. then each payday (as long as things continue ) i am going to continue this by buying no less than 100$ worth of silver each time, somehow.
I was just reading some silver sites and dang, $500 minimum purchases?
so junk silver seems the most reasonable to me and easiest to get my hands on. am I thinking right?


----------



## nj_m715

If you have to search carefully you can find great deals for small purchases on ebay. You should be able to get it for spot or a little under, including shipping, if you're picky. Put in your max bid and stand on it. Don't chase it higher. Win or lose, just move on to the next one. I managed to invest about 2k last summer. Everything I got was $2-3 under spot including shipping. For a big purchase 5k or more, I think I would use gainsville or another reputable company. I'm thinking of using a little of my equity line to do it right now. I thought real hard about it last year, but I couldn't justify the risk of "buying high". Well, now I'm kicking myself in the butt for not doing it. With the increased food prices, Monitzing of the debt, QE, rising oil prices I think the writing is on the wall. Last yr at this time silver was $14 or so and I never thought it would hit $30, even though NIA and others all predicted it. The more I read up on them, the more I believe they are on the right track. So as I sit here in disbelief that we'll see $50oz (just like I did about $30 last yr) I think I need to jump in and buy more. If I did it last summer, I could sell 1/2 of it to pay off the equity line and still have my initial investment in silver for free. 

My accountant put my IRA into municipal bonds and I want to move it to Canadian companies and precious metal mining as soon as I can. I'll make the move when I get my taxes done in a couple weeks. 

Any investor types here have any other suggestions to look into?


----------



## PamsPride

nj_m715 said:


> If you have to search carefully you can find great deals for small purchases on ebay. You should be able to get it for spot or a little under, including shipping, if you're picky. Put in your max bid and stand on it. Don't chase it higher. Win or lose, just move on to the next one. I managed to invest about 2k last summer. Everything I got was $2-3 under spot including shipping. For a big purchase 5k or more, I think I would use gainsville or another reputable company. I'm thinking of using a little of my equity line to do it right now. I thought real hard about it last year, but I couldn't justify the risk of "buying high". Well, now I'm kicking myself in the butt for not doing it. With the increased food prices, Monitzing of the debt, QE, rising oil prices I think the writing is on the wall. Last yr at this time silver was $14 or so and I never thought it would hit $30, even though NIA and others all predicted it. The more I read up on them, the more I believe they are on the right track. So as I sit here in disbelief that we'll see $50oz (just like I did about $30 last yr) I think I need to jump in and buy more. If I did it last summer, I could sell 1/2 of it to pay off the equity line and still have my initial investment in silver for free.
> 
> My accountant put my IRA into municipal bonds and I want to move it to Canadian companies and precious metal mining as soon as I can. I'll make the move when I get my taxes done in a couple weeks.
> 
> Any investor types here have any other suggestions to look into?


For a Canadian metal mining company I like AZK.


----------



## rflood

Folks, would buying a bag of 90% coins be better than solid one ounce eagles or silver maple coins? Anyone have any thoughts as to which is preferable, solid pure silver coins or the 90% ones?


----------



## vn6869

rflood said:


> Folks, would buying a bag of 90% coins be better than solid one ounce eagles or silver maple coins? Anyone have any thoughts as to which is preferable, solid pure silver coins or the 90% ones?


I'm rather mixed with that also.

One one hand the rounds and eagles have "pure" silver value.
Yet, do the vast majority know that, i.e. will they accept them as value?

On the other hand, my concern with the "junk" 90% silver, which I also have, is will most people undersand they are really 90% silver versus just another quarter or dime? I have seen many people that don't know the difference.

:dunno: :scratch :dunno:


----------



## Frugal_Farmers

Tradng and bartering woeks fore us all of the time. Sure, you may not trade for the exact value of someting, but most values have been artificially created by those greedy folks who continue to fill their banks accounts and accumulate mass amounts of worthless (feel-good) material goods.

We trade and barter every chance we get and have been sucessful in "converting" a few folks who previously were only concerned with monetary exchanges. 

Handyman skills are a great bartering tool. 

Practice your own trading and bartering skills today.


----------



## The_Blob

vn6869 said:


> will most people undersand they are really 90% silver versus just another quarter or dime? I have seen many people that don't know the difference.
> 
> :dunno: :scratch :dunno:


I concur with that, every so often I get a few silver quarters in my vending machines


----------



## nj_m715

I think people will learn real quick if the bottom falls out of the dollar. Since I have layed up with my back my son and I have taken up a little bit of coin collecting. I have a couple of those blue collector folders. We hand search a few rolls of coins to find the ones we need to fill the folder. Every now and then I find a batch thats a lot of silver coins, wheat pennies or buffalo nickels. I figure some kid or some crack head ripped of someone's coin jar and cashed them in, not knowing the value. Over all I've been finding less and less silver out there. People know the difference, we just don't always take the time to look.


----------



## nj_m715

Pam, I'll look into that stock. I'm not sure that I can request individual stocks, but I know I can request mutual funds based in general areas. I can get municipal bonds, metals, corporate funds etc. 
Off topic, but a nice little "bonus", the snow melt just started dripping into my front room  DANM IT


----------



## BillM

*Silver*



rflood said:


> Folks, would buying a bag of 90% coins be better than solid one ounce eagles or silver maple coins? Anyone have any thoughts as to which is preferable, solid pure silver coins or the 90% ones?


I would buy the American Eagle Silver bullion coins.

They are .999 fine silver bullion. They will always be exchangeable for currency anywhere in the world at the bullion price of silver.
They will not require an assay.

Bullion bars might!


----------



## labouton

Narsil said:


> The problem with that scenario is that the barter system rarely works well for long. The barter system only works when the two people involved have precisely the right quantity of specific items that the other wants. Suppose someone comes to you wanting to trade ammunition for aspirin. You, being the smart cookie that you are, stockpiled both aspirin and ammunition. Your root cellar has 15,000 rounds of ammunition. You probably aren't going to want more ammunition, especially since the ammo he's got isn't the right caliber for your guns. What you really need is some clothes for your three year-old. You have something he wants but he has nothing you want. The barter system doesn't work in that scenario.
> 
> This is why things that have intrinsic value (but little practical usefulness) like precious metals make such useful trade medium. In the above scenario, instead of bartering, you can sell him some aspirin for 0.05 Troy ounces of .999 sterling silver, take that silver to someone who makes children's clothes and use it to buy what you need.


The trouble I see with that scenario is that the silver you purchased for $50 just bought $.02 worth of asprin. The purchase of silver or gold is speculation, not an investment. Whereas 100# of flour or rice or 2 acres of land would be an investment. IMHO


----------



## nj_m715

Well, if you invested 50k in land 3 or 4 yrs ago it's probably worth less today and 50k in silver or gold is now worth a lot more. Sounds like a good investment to me. 

My math might be wrong but if .05 oz of silver is worth $50 wouldn't that make silver $1,000 per oz? I think his asprin cost closer to $1 than $50 at todays prices.


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

nj_m715 said:


> Well, if you invested 50k in land 3 or 4 yrs ago it's probably worth less today and 50k in silver or gold is now worth a lot more. Sounds like a good investment to me.
> 
> My math might be wrong but if .05 oz of silver is worth $50 wouldn't that make silver $1,000 per oz? I think his asprin cost closer to $1 than $50 at todays prices.


Yeah and silver is $26.59 right now...


----------



## BillM

*Bartering with silver*



nj_m715 said:


> Well, if you invested 50k in land 3 or 4 yrs ago it's probably worth less today and 50k in silver or gold is now worth a lot more. Sounds like a good investment to me.
> 
> My math might be wrong but if .05 oz of silver is worth $50 wouldn't that make silver $1,000 per oz? I think his asprin cost closer to $1 than $50 at todays prices.


You would only barter with silver for large ticket items, a horse, a tractor, ect

The idea behind owning silver or gold is to be able to exchange it for currency, when currency is acceptable again . If the dollar becomes worthless due to hyperinflation, silver and gold will transfer your wealth to a new medium of currency , be it U S Curency or the curency of another country at the exchange rate. In the interm, you will be bartering for goods with goods or services. Silver is currently worth $27.00 per troy oz.

If they economy goes belly up, it could wind up being worth $2700. per troy oz.

Intrestingly the U S Constution requires all currency printed by the U S Goverment to be exchangable for Gold and silver. The law makes it illeagle for the government to print notes of credit.


----------



## labouton

BillM said:


> You would only barter with silver for large ticket items, a horse, a tractor, ect
> 
> The idea behind owning silver or gold is to be able to exchange it for currency, when currency is acceptable again . If the dollar becomes worthless due to hyperinflation, silver and gold will transfer your wealth to a new medium of currency , be it U S Curency or the curency of another country at the exchange rate. In the interm, you will be bartering for goods with goods or services. Silver is currently worth $27.00 per troy oz.
> 
> If they economy goes belly up, it could wind up being worth $2700. per troy oz.
> 
> Intrestingly the U S Constution requires all currency printed by the U S Goverment to be exchangable for Gold and silver. The law makes it illeagle for the government to print notes of credit.


My thought was that if your 1 oz. of silver valued at $2700 but that you had bought for $1000 may well only be able to purchase you 5 gallons of water so it still will be a barter situation - assuming that the economy does go belly up. Just my thoughts.


----------



## BillM

*Intrinsic Value*

There are many monitary systems in the world.

Some are very stable and most are not.

We have a monitary system that is only backed by "the full faith and credit" of the U S Government.

The monitary systems that are stable and acceptable any where in the world are all backed by silver and gold.

Silver and Gold have intrinsic value.

Commodys have intrinsic value

Land and your home has intrinsic value.

Gold and silver are easiely transportable.

If U S Currency collapses, after goods and services begain to be restored , gold and silver will become an acceptable currency and are a means of transfering wealth from a failed economy to a new economy.

In the last 6000 years of recorded history, the only time Gold and silver have been worthless is when someone was trying to swim with it.


----------



## vaportrail_25

Dean said:


> Where do you buy physical Gold and Silver? Coin dealers only? Can you buy straight from the US Mint?


A co-worker of mine has been buying and filling up his secret safe with Silver bullion bars from a producing Silver mining company. "First Majestic Silver Corp."
They have an online store to buy from : First Majestic Silver Corp. - Order Form - Thu Oct 15, 2009


----------



## vn6869

BillM said:


> There are many monitary systems in the world.
> 
> Some are very stable and most are not.
> 
> *We have a monitary system that is only backed by "the full faith and credit" of the U S Government.*The monitary systems that are stable and acceptable any where in the world are all backed by silver and gold.
> 
> Silver and Gold . .Commodys . . .Land and your home has intrinsic value.
> 
> Gold and silver are easiely transportable.
> 
> If U S Currency collapses, after goods and services begain to be restored , gold and silver will become an acceptable currency and are a means of transfering wealth from a failed economy to a new economy.
> 
> In the last 6000 years of recorded history, the only time Gold and silver have been worthless is when someone was trying to swim with it.


:2thumb:

Very good analysis, but the image of someone swimming with it ?


----------



## rflood

BillM said:


> I would buy the American Eagle Silver bullion coins.
> 
> They are .999 fine silver bullion. They will always be exchangeable for currency anywhere in the world at the bullion price of silver.
> They will not require an assay.
> 
> Bullion bars might!


OK Folks, I got BillM in with buying American Eagle Silver coins how about others out there? 90% old silver coins, American Eagle coins or silver rounds?


----------



## SuspectZero

Ive been buying 90% and the eagles and it seems that I pay a smaller premium on the 90% if your looking to buy a large face value. With the 2011 eagle being the 25 anniversary im sure there will b a large premium especially later in the year as supply runs out like last year. Our banks here are selling them at $56 and they were $34 last year. A friend of mine buys bars and he said when silver dips he has a hard time getting intrest in them compared to the pre-64 coins. Collector demmand is always there so you can tap both markets if u decide to part with any later.


----------



## Immolatus

Hey guys,
I'm new to these forums, but saw this and had to stick my 2 cents in. My friends and I are big silver collectors/investors, and by far the best deal is at your local coin dealer. Fortunately I live very near a very large dealer, and have cheap and easy access to coins and bullion. 
Ebay is about your worst place to buy. So bad, in fact that some of us are looking into selling silver thru it. I can buy 5/10/20/50/100oz bars at spot +$.50, that are selling on Ebay for almost twice that. I assume that those purchasing on Ebay have absolutely no choice, or are completely ignorant.
Generally if you are consistent buy at your local store, they will charge you a smaller upcharge on your purchases.
Most large brokerage firms will warn against physical holdings. Do not listen to them. In theory, the govt can come and take your gold/silver, its been done before. Good luck with that!
There is a lot of commodity manipulation going on, apparently more in silver than anything else.
As with any investments, do your homework, and make your own decisions.


----------



## nj_m715

Welcome to the group. I'm sure that's your experience with ebay, but you can find deals if you look. It's all about how you search. If were to sell a 90% dime, my listing would look like this: 90% pre 64 silver us coin, not gold bar bullion junk estate platinum war nickel nickle 

I would get tons of hits with the search engine. But if I were shopping I would enter very few key words like "us coin" or estate coin and take the time to sort through the 100's of hits. There are seller who don't add the silver to their listing and get very few hits, some people misspell words like nickle or deisel and get very few hits. That's where the deals are. I have picked up plenty of junk coins well under spot. Sort of like walking around the flea market looking for antiques for $3. The seller might not know what they have and you can cash in. Wait until the last 3-5 seconds and enter the max price you are willing to pay. Win or loose, you offered your "top dollar" and by sniping at the last second you don't allow other bidders to counter your offer. If you win send an email to the guy and if he was anymore. Buy as much as you can right from him because ebay and PP take about 1/4 of the price. This violates ebay rules, so be careful how you word your request. Just ask if he has more, don't offer to buy right from him, because ebay can take action against you. just drop a hint and see if he takes the bait. If he does move to private email or phone calls. I turned a purchase of 5 war nickels into a lot more. He doesn't have to keep taking pic and answering stupid questions, so it's a win-win. 

I have also made several attempt to do business with my local deal, but his prices are insane or maybe he thinks I'm insane. He offered he about 1/2 of what coins were selling for on ebay and stood his ground when I showed him some completed listing prices. I also brought in a print out when I was looking to buy. I flat out said I understand you need to make money, but I AM going to buy coins today. I'd like to do local business if you can come close to these prices. He held his ground again and I took me business somewhere else again. I'd love to have a relationship with local guys, I'm old fashion like that, but I'm not going to get taken to the cleaners in the process. The $80 I spent in shipping was a fraction of the sales tax I would have had to pay to buy local. So, his loss and no sweat off my back. 

Now you all know my ebay secrete and I'll never find bargains again.


----------



## nj_m715

On second though I'm going to delete my last post and get rich by writing a how to use ebay e-book


----------



## IrritatedWithUS

also, try searching for 'silvver bars' or 'sliver bars'
People misspell everything on eBay. So people aren't purposely searching for misspelled words. So less people are looking at a misspelled auction because it doesn't show up if you type in the keyword correctly in the search engine.


----------



## nj_m715

Exactly. That's how I get my "nickles" and my "deisel" parts at great prices. You can always count on the laziness or stupidity of the American people. Same thing goes for c-list and other sites too. Right now I am selling a biodiesel, bio diesel, bio-diesel, biodeisel, bio deisel and a bio-deisel reactor. I often type faster than I think, but I misspell my listings to get those extra hits.


----------



## rockpilefarmer

As far as buying gold or silver, but especially gold, seems like everyone has missed the boat. Should a bought 10 years ago when the Christian community began preaching to get out of debt and invest in gold. I can't afford it anyway. My security is in my wits....my food storage, my water purifying ability, and my hunting savvy.


----------



## Immolatus

Good points all. Certainly search for bargains and misspellings.
In general, Ebay (auctions) tends to drive up prices.
Funny, because in Economics in college, they teach that an auction price is the true determinant of a goods worth, which in some cases, may be true. In the case of most of these items, it determines the highest price someone is willing to pay.
For standard silver bars on Ebay, the price is higher. Check into them before you buy. 
The point about a pieces numismatic value dropping to zero in a worst case scenario makes sense.


----------



## BillM

*Silver*

Silver jumped to $33.91 an ounce on the Asian spot market today. On the 14th of this month it was 30.58 per troy OZ.

When the New York market opens in the morning it is going to explode.

J P Morgan has shorted silver in order to keep the dollar from inflating and they are caught with their pants down and unable to deliver the phyisical metal.

:2thumb:

I'm holding 10,000 oz's that I picked up at $31.00 per oz !

:lolsmash:


----------



## BasecampUSA

BillM said:


> Silver jumped to $33.91 an ounce on the Asian spot market today. On the 14th of this month it was 30.58 per troy OZ.
> When the New York market opens in the morning it is going to explode.
> J P Morgan has shorted silver in order to keep the dollar from inflating and they are caught with their pants down and unable to deliver the phyisical metal.
> :2thumb:
> I'm holding 10,000 oz's that I picked up at $31.00 per oz !
> :lolsmash:


I should have hocked everything I owned and put it in silver and gold!

*sigh... do you know that tune? "Shoulda Woulda Coulda"


----------

