# What water filter?



## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

*I've read about water filter's from Sawyer, Vortex, Katadyn, Berkey to everything in between and now I'm totally confused. Everyone claims theirs are the best but how do we know?

If the SHTF and we have to rely on rivers, lakes, streams, ponds, water puddles and everything else, what filter do you feel would filter out all the bad particles? The water resources will probably be contaminated with animal feces, carcasses of animals and run-off containing chemicals. Boiling will remove some but not all.( Katrina comes to mind with all the dead bodies floating and people using the waters for a bathroom).
Though I'm storing some water and my next door neighbor has a well, if we have to leave for the mountains, I'm going to need the best filter I can find for the stream I have up there.

I have three young grand children so pure water is extremely important to me. If the best filter happens to be a small one, no problem, I will just appoint someone to water duty.

I'm very skeptical about salesmen (everyone's crow's are the blackest), so need your input.
*


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

As they say, it all depends.

I have access to water that I don't need to worry over urban runoff - no antifreeze, oil, chemicals and so on.

I DO have to worry about glacial silt. So, Ill use flocculation, then a Sawyer Point zero two.

NO filter removes everything, many will reduce chemicals, using a carbon block filter.

The Sawyer filters have small pore size and can be back-washed, allowing for extended use. The Point Zero Two makes a good gravity filter, and removes all the way down to the virus level.

Good luck, it can be confusing without real-deal technical specs laid out.

Remember. quality does cost some real money - there are no good and cheap water filters.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Check out "first need xle". Backpackable filter and purifier. 180 gallons on one filter. Good product. If stationary at home you might want something bigger but I believe this product to be a must for all bobs. Gonna spend about $100-$130 on it.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Many like the Berkey. I chose the Katadyn as I was able to find it on sale. On my boat I have the Pur so that I can filter salt water. The Pur got me across the Atlantic twice so I am confident in it.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

If you are looking for bang-for-the-buck go with the Life-straw. 160 gallons for $20.00. They can be slightly modified into a gravity filter for large resevoirs.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

If your that scared of contamination why not just say screw it and build a still? The materials are cheaper than many filters.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Contaminants in water, big stuff like silt and floaties, bacteria, virus, chemicals and protozoans like giardia. The filter will remove the big stuff, bacteria and protozoans. Filters are a lot of work (pump filters). 

Most cities filter water some way and treat it with chlorine. You can treat about 10,000 gallons of water with a pound of calcium hypochlorite that costs five bucks.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

I was just discussing this with my mother-in-law last night. She just bought a Seychelle filter a free days ago. It is a personal water bottle with a micron filter inside. They are about $20 at Bishop's Storehouse right now and are rated for 10,000 gallons, plus they sell extra filters, too.


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## oif_ghost_tod (Sep 25, 2012)

Life straws are good to have as a redundancy in your plans, but for $40 or so, the Sawyer Squeeze is a much better "cheap" filter 160 vs. 1,000,000 Gallons filter life. 

*BUT*

If it freezes ONCE, its junk.

Now I just carry mine on my person (Inside fleece) to keep it from freezing while operating in sub-zero conditions. I do also have several life straws in my various kits because it may be situationally smarter to use one of those for a quick sip from a stream. Really though, if you keep the smallest bag (16oz.) attached to the Sawyer, and just tuck it in the front of your shirt, your body heat should keep it well above freezing. Handy to take sips from too!

IMHO the Sawyer is a great value, especially if you are in the warmer climates. If you want to use it during winter though, better have a plan to keep it from freezing.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

Sawyer SP-140 Zero Point One is already in my BOB, and I intend to get a Point Zero Two bucket kit for the BOV soon. With Saywer you get an absolute micron size, meaning, the filter's rated particle size is the absolute maximum that can pass through it. We're talking kidney dialysis technology here...I don't think it could get any better than that. Sure if they freeze, there is no known way to assure their effectiveness in the field (unless you pack a microscope and any necessary supportive gear for a micro-lab), and there is no proven method to dry out the filter once it's used to prevent possible freeze-up damage, however, what filter would be trust-worthy if it was exposed to sub-freezing temps? Just gotta be extra diligent to not let a freeze-up happen...period...stick the filter in your inside coat pocket and sleep with it if you have to...guard it with your life, 'cuz it may be your life on the line.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

Thanks for the responses so far.

NO filter removes everything, many will reduce chemicals, using a carbon block filter.

The Sawyer filters have small pore size and can be back-washed, allowing for extended use. The Point Zero Two makes a good gravity filter, and removes all the way down to the virus level.

So DKRinAK you're saying Sawyer Point Zero should filter out everything except trace amounts of chemicals? 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out "first need xle". Backpackable filter and purifier. 180 gallons on one filter. Good product. If stationary at home you might want something bigger but I believe this product to be a must for all bobs. Gonna spend about $100-$130 on it. 
__________________
Thanks CBLouis, I'll check those out too. Size is not a problem as I'm hoping it will be for a backup but if it turns out to be our main source, we will deal with it.

Many like the Berkey. I chose the Katadyn as I was able to find it on sale. On my boat I have the Pur so that I can filter salt water. The Pur got me across the Atlantic twice so I am confident in it.
__________________
You know, this made me think....I've got a Brita around here somewhere! I was planning on using coffee filters, sand and charcoal before I ran the water through the bought water filter. I'll have to see if I can find that. Thanks Caribou.

Seanallen, since you and "Ghost" brought up the straws, those will probably go in our BOB. They were mentioned on a talk show once along with the light purifier.

bahramthered said:

If your that scared of contamination why not just say screw it and build a still? The materials are cheaper than many filters

Well, that would probably kill all the impurities! Problem there would be the 3, 5, 11 year old and me do not drink...I bet it would give the beans and rice a unique taste!


Most cities filter water some way and treat it with chlorine. You can treat about 10,000 gallons of water with a pound of calcium hypochlorite that costs five bucks.

Thanks Johnsey,
I had forgotten that at one time DH delivered chlorine to the water dept.(he said you wouldn't drink the water if you knew what went into it) but I'm not sure I would feel safe being the one responsible for chlorinating our water supply. But I will certainly remember this and hope we never have to use it. 


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I was just discussing this with my mother-in-law last night. She just bought a Seychelle filter a free days ago. It is a personal water bottle with a micron filter inside. They are about $20 at Bishop's Storehouse right now and are rated for 10,000 gallons, plus they sell extra filters, too
Toffee. why did she pick this one? For 10,000 gallons it sounds awfully inexpensive. I was leaning towards the Berkey but then they have the Royal, the British, the Imperial.....totally confused! Then Emergency Essentials put the Katadyn on sale, it looked good and that's when I started having questions about all of them, they all looked the same, what's the difference, which is the best? 
The stream and pond on my property in the mountains should be pure but I need insurance for the "what if". Who knows, we may be bugging in and need it here!


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

Dixie said:


> Toffee. why did she pick this one? For 10,000 gallons it sounds awfully inexpensive. I was leaning towards the Berkey but then they have the Royal, the British, the Imperial.....totally confused! Then Emergency Essentials put the Katadyn on sale, it looked good and that's when I started having questions about all of them, they all looked the same, what's the difference, which is the best?
> The stream and pond on my property in the mountains should be pure but I need insurance for the "what if". Who knows, we may be bugging in and need it here!


She picked it because she was already at the Storehouse picking up a bunch of stuff (beans, freeze-dried corn, etc) and one of the workers there recommended it. Apparently, they buy so many that they get an awesome deal on them. It is a water bottle that has 2 filters with it that fit onto a straw. I'm not sure if each filter does 5,000 or if they do 20,000 together, but we are getting one for each of us. If I get the chance though, I'm going to make one of those homemade berkey filters and probably stock up on "Mormon Punch". That way if I have to use iodine or chlorine, it won't taste like it.


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

Dixie said:


> Thanks for the responses so far.
> 
> NO filter removes everything, many will reduce chemicals, using a carbon block filter.
> 
> ...


The CDC, here in the US says - 
Filter pore size is the primary determinant of a filter's effectiveness, but microorganisms also adhere to filter media by electrochemical reactions. Microfilters with "absolute" pore sizes of 0.1-0.4 µm are usually effective to remove cysts and bacteria but may not adequately remove viruses, which are a major concern in water with high levels of fecal contamination (Table 2-10). The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) designation of water "purifier" indicates that company-sponsored testing has substantiated claims for removing 106 bacteria, 104 (9,999 of 10,000) viruses, and 103 Cryptosporidium oocysts or Giardia cysts, although EPA does not independently test the validity of these claims. NSF International is a nonprofit, nongovernmental organization that develops standards and product certification for public health and safety.

I don't have to say - Sawyer's own material says -
"Each filter is certified for ABSOLUTE microns; that means there is no pore size larger than 0.1 or 0.02 micron in size. This makes it *impossible* for harmful bacteria, protozoa, or cysts like E. coli, Giradia, Vibrio cholerae and Salmonella typhi (which cause Cholera and Typhoid) to pass through the Sawyer PointONE™ biological filter. At 7 log (99.99999%) the filter attains the highest level of filtration available today.

I_f viruses are an issue, we offer the Point ZeroTWO Purifier (0.02 micron absolute pores), the first and thus far only portable purification device to physically remove viruses, which it does at a >5.5 log (99.9997%) rate, e*xceeding EPA and NSF recommendations.*_

All Sawyer filters have been tested by independent and qualified research laboratories according to U.S. EPA standards for water filters, and meet or exceed EPA standards. Sawyer's revolutionary technology has also been tested and verified by the United Nations, and is currently being used in more than 70 countries around the world. "

Add that's why I have a Sawyer Squeeze for hiking in areas I know have no virus issues, and the Point Zero Two for everything else.
Sawyer filters WILL NOT remove bad taste, or other contaminants - like antifreeze, so are not the best choice for surface water near urban areas.

And _nothing_ I know of is any good for surface water in urban areas.

Hope this helps.


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## webeable (Aug 29, 2012)

will stick to my strain, boil, drink method. I have seen what micro organisms will do to a man not ever a good outcome.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Doesn't sound like a very practical appoach in the field.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

When considering water purification it really is true that one is none and two is one. Its great youre educating yourself on several peices of equipment. This is one area where I take great pains to have many layers of redundancy. I would also suggest practicing other ways of filtering water in the field that doesnt require equipment. As webeable suggested, being proficient at straining and boiling as unobtrusively as possible is good. Also you can use UV light to purify water that sits in clear plastic in direct sunlight for a couple hours. A capful of bleach will purify a gallon after you let it sit for a hour. Purtabs are readily available. There are even some great diagrams online to build your own large filters for a rain collection barrel that are not complicated or expensive. Someone already mentioned a still for distilled water. Some folks here probably have some other tricksy method I havent mentioned. In earlier days a very low alcohol percentage beer was the daily beverage of choice (along with milk and buttermilk) because the fermentation process killed what ailed ya. For an on the move filter and purifier in one I still like my first need xle though. Ive used every filter made and so far its really impressed me.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

If you will be traveling, I can see the need for a "straw" type filter or something similar. Make *sure* you filter your water the best you can, first - - either through denim jeans legs, coffee filters, sand... whatever. The cleaner you can get it on "step one", the longer your water filter will last!

Never use water from the surface, where oils will float. Place your container under the surface before opening it.

Wherever ever you get settled, make sure you build a slow sand filter to process all of your water. Even better after that would be a BioSand filter. Run the water through until it comes out clear. A Brita or Pur pitcher will clean up the sandy taste. A Berkey would be ideal.

You can use a little bit of bleach (made form Calcium Hypochlorite)after the sand and before the Brita pitcher (or Berkey) if you want a little more safety.

A water distiller uses a lot of energy, and any aromatic hydrocarbons (and many other chemicals or solvents) in the water will travel along with the water vapors and contaminate the final product. Not always the best solution.

A common Pur filter will not remove salt. Must have been a special unit, Like R.O..


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## siletz (Aug 23, 2011)

We've had a Berkey for years and it works fine. After they had issues with their filters, I don't trust them as much as I did. But, my husband took a trip to Haiti recently and stayed with some people that have been using the Sawyer ever since the earthquake there. Clean water was a major problem after the earthquake and they've been buying these to pass out to as many as possible. They've been using it as their only water source ever since, and it's still going strong because of the ability to backwash it to clean it. So, it's now on my wish list to buy soon.

http://www.amazon.com/Sawyer-SP181-...UTF8&colid=O0N6V2N6HN8R&coliid=I1GNVY6G8YCJSZ


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

Dixie said:


> bahramthered said:
> 
> If your that scared of contamination why not just say screw it and build a still? The materials are cheaper than many filters
> 
> Well, that would probably kill all the impurities! Problem there would be the 3, 5, 11 year old and me do not drink...I bet it would give the beans and rice a unique taste!




Wrong kind of still.

In this context a still is a device that applies heat to suspect water and forces it to evaporate leaving impurities in a collection pan. Since it's enclosed the water vapor is forced into tubing where it cools. The reliquifieid water is allowed to drip into your collection pan. This technique removes both biological and chemical contamination at a level beyond filters.

Problems are serious, either the use of fuel to heat the water or time in the case you go solar. Having one in a static camp is a great way to salvage waste heat say, the hot coals after cooking when you don't need heat, or if you don't have issues with fuel.

All it requires is three things, a enclosed container that can take the heat, some tubing, and your collection vessel it can be quite portable. Best I ever saw was a homemade job. Metal pan with a glass lid with buckles. It had a value on which the plastic tubing was attached.

The tubing had little fliers of aluminum to help vent heat, a classic solution for vapor lock in cars. Tube since it was plastic to be light had to be protected from the fire so it did require a little care. The pot used for this could be scrubbed out and reused so it was a cook pot too. The camping trip I met it we used it all day to make water and then made soup in it for dinner.


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## Highwater (Mar 22, 2011)

bahramthered said:


> Wrong kind of still.
> 
> In this context a still is a device that applies heat to suspect water and forces it to evaporate leaving impurities in a collection pan. Since it's enclosed the water vapor is forced into tubing where it cools. The reliquifieid water is allowed to drip into your collection pan. This technique removes both biological and chemical contamination at a level beyond filters.
> 
> ...


Good description of water distillation. There are many DIY systems out there. You can make them from scavenged materials or try to buy new materials. We made one that is used with a conventional pressure cooker. It's made with all USA manufactured parts and we kept the price affordable. The DIY kit costs $100, without the pressure cooker or bucket. Check out the Vortex Non-electric Water Distiller Kit by Highwater Filters.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Water distillation still does NOT remove solvents that have similar boiling/condensation temperatures as water, so make sure your source water is free of them.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

Can you name any? I googled that a bunch of different ways and can't find anything helpful. I know you to be safe let chemically suspect water boil for a minute before you attach the tubing, but I've never heard of the solvent threat. 

I've only seriously seen it done twice, once for saltwater and once for an algae infested lake (supposedly it produced a toxin in the water).


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

bahramthered said:


> I've only seriously seen it done twice, once for saltwater and once for an algae infested lake (supposedly it produced a toxin in the water).


Saltwater works well with distillation, especially with solar stills.

Solvents can usually be smelled: Smells like gas, fuel, paint thinner, kerosene, whatever. This a BIG threat with floodwaters due to flooded cars, buildings, etc. The gas from one flooded lawnmower will contaminate 10,000 gallons of water.

Lake water with lots of algae should not be distilled. You need to get the water as algae free as possible before distillation.

As long as salt isn't an issue, some sort of cloth filtering (jeans, sheets, etc) followed by a decent slow sand filter will get you 99% there. A BioSand filter will kill pathogens like cysts and protozoans like giardia and much other nastiness. I would always use chlorine to finish it off... the chlorine will go away if you agitate the water.


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> When considering water purification it really is true that one is none and two is one. Its great youre educating yourself on several peices of equipment. This is one area where I take great pains to have many layers of redundancy. I would also suggest practicing other ways of filtering water in the field that doesnt require equipment. As webeable suggested, being proficient at straining and boiling as unobtrusively as possible is good*. Also you can use UV light to purify water that sits in clear plastic in direct sunlight for a couple hours.* A capful of bleach will purify a gallon after you let it sit for a hour. Purtabs are readily available. There are even some great diagrams online to build your own large filters for a rain collection barrel that are not complicated or expensive. Someone already mentioned a still for distilled water. Some folks here probably have some other tricksy method I havent mentioned. In earlier days a very low alcohol percentage beer was the daily beverage of choice (along with milk and buttermilk) because the fermentation process killed what ailed ya. For an on the move filter and purifier in one I still like my first need xle though. Ive used every filter made and so far its really impressed me.


Might want to look further at this
http://www.sodis.ch/methode/anwendung/index_EN

*says 6 hours* - and that is in tropical areas with bright sunlight.

The source site also has other good information.


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## Highwater (Mar 22, 2011)

LincTex said:


> Water distillation still does NOT remove solvents that have similar boiling/condensation temperatures as water, so make sure your source water is free of them.


Good point. We added a coconut shell activated carbon filter at the end of the Vortex system to remove any organic VOC's.


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## pmkrv12 (Mar 15, 2012)

A related question, I have read many times that a few drops of chlorine can clean water but it has to be chlorine without any fragrance and I can't seem to find those I the regular supermarkets. All them have some smell added to them. Can anyone tell me brand or a place where to get no smelly chlorine in bottle?


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

pmkrv12 said:


> A related question, I have read many times that a few drops of chlorine can clean water but it has to be chlorine without any fragrance and I can't seem to find those I the regular supermarkets. All them have some smell added to them. Can anyone tell me brand or a place where to get no smelly chlorine in bottle?


Staples has Pure Bright Liquid Bleach, Fragrance-Free, 1 gal., 4/Case - $11.19.
Check the date on ANY bleach as it has a shelf life.

Clorox sells it as well.

Good luck.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

pmkrv12 said:


> Can anyone tell me brand or a place where to get no smelly chlorine in bottle?


Get some Calcium Hypochlorite ("Pool Shock") powder to make your own bleach. Store-bought liquid bleach degrades quickly and after a year has little potency left.


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## pmkrv12 (Mar 15, 2012)

LincTex said:


> Get some Calcium Hypochlorite ("Pool Shock") powder to make your own bleach. Store-bought liquid bleach degrades quickly and after a year has little potency left.


Thanks I have pool shock, how do I make it into bleach

Thx

Peter


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

It comes in various strengths. You probably need a chlorine test kit to get it right, something less than 4 parts per million of residual chlorine.

As a start put 1/2 tsp of calcium hypochlorite in 8 ounces of water. Add 1/2 tsp of this solution to 1 gallon of untreated water. That 8 ounces of solution will treat about 50 gallons of water. Only mix it as you need it as it has a shelf life.

The easiest way to adjust your solution is to vary the amount of water (8 oz) in the initial solution, less water to increase chlorine, more water to decrease chlorine. A little too much chlorine won't hurt you within reason.

Clear water takes less chlorine, dirty water more. 

If you are using store bleach a little perfume won't hurt you. It is so diluted you will never notice it.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

DKRinAK said:


> Might want to look further at this
> http://www.sodis.ch/methode/anwendung/index_EN
> 
> *says 6 hours* - and that is in tropical areas with bright sunlight.
> ...


Glad you corrected me before I had to try it out. Thx.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Seriously, buy pool shock but make sute you get the sodium hypochlorite cause i bought some but it was a different chemical and i had to take it back. But for 1 pound at 5 bucks that treats 10K gallons its the cheapest anti diahhreah med you can get!!


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