# 20 Things You Will Need WHEN not IF the SHTF



## watchman220 (Dec 27, 2009)

I like this high overview survival list. It is specific enough to give you very important areas to prepare for and general enough to leave some room for innovation.

*20 Things You Will Need WHEN not IF the SHTF*


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

If you read it here,
20 Things You Will Need To Survive When The Economy Collapses And The Next Great Depression Begins

you can read the comments section. Look for the comments by butch. 
He's the type of person we all need to be on the lookout for in a SHTF situation


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## kyhoti (Nov 16, 2008)

Funny, that Butch guy. Part of being prepared is having a plan in place to deal with him and his ilk. He might not be so hungry after trying to get my food.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

UncleJoe said:


> you can read the comments section. Look for the comments by butch.
> He's the type of person we all need to be on the lookout for in a SHTF situation


I didn't care for 'butch' ... but I do have a way to deal with him.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah. Me too. I even made a comment directed at him to that effect. Something about; we preppers are the ones that will be waiting for him and will add his rifles, handguns and ammo to our arsenal.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

"butch" should remember one thing- however good he thinks he is, there's always someone better. He is truly an a$$ but unfortunately, will be one of many like him. 

Tim


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Butch was just a troll. BUT! There will be lots of Butches out there when the time comes. The single loners will not be a problem for long, they will get picked off. The problem will be when they band together, strength in numbers. I can only hope they pass by my dilapidated trailer and not know the front lawn is wheat, instead think it is just tall grass. They may raid the garden. They may break into the shed and seal some tools… Single vermin no problem, 10 or 20 of them could be a problem.

I really think I am in a pretty safe situation as far as being seen as a hoarder of goods and a target for looters. Up and down the rural road I live on are much fancier developments that would be primer targets. So, it would take them a while to work their way down to targeting places like mine. If I was in a looting band I would rather target a fancy house, manicured lawn and SUV in the driveway than an old trailer in a red neck neighborhood. Yeah, them boys are all armed there, the suburbanites most likely ain’t.


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## pioneergirl (May 11, 2010)

Agree....I read on another forum someone said "make your place look like it's already been looted"....not a bad idea. Of course, when it all happens, I'm not going to be out mowing the grass, or even worrying about it, thats for sure. (tall grass hides good traps, haha)


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

One word : Landmines. 

It's simple, effective, easy to build. You could just use shotgun shells as the explosive if you don't have anything else handy. Taking a shotgun blast to the foot and leg is usually enough to stop the average intruder.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

allen_idaho said:


> One word : Landmines.
> 
> It's simple, effective, easy to build. You could just use shotgun shells as the explosive if you don't have anything else handy. Taking a shotgun blast to the foot and leg is usually enough to stop the average intruder.


They also have a tremendous psychological impact on intruders.


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

A couple of tripwires attached to a couple of bee hives would be quite a deterrent.


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## Kaytastrophy (Mar 24, 2010)

*After reading some of the comments.*

I believe that the collapse is coming. There are many things we can do to
be prepared. There are some things that we have no control over. Those
who want to take what they want from those that have will be a real problem. Those who are trigger happy will also be a problem. There has
to be a medium to aim for. I don't know what it will be but one thing we
can count on is that the government won't be coming to our rescue with
any good intentions. The government will be happy to see a large portion
of our population starve, kill each other and give up to kill themselves.
That will reduce their responsibility to our citizenry. Please consider
preparing yourself and your family for what you will need, what you will
need to know, and what you will be willing to do to survive. The one thing I see a problem with - is - that this country is inherently lazy and have become dependent on someone else always taking care of them. Having to chop wood, dig outhouses, grow gardens, preserve foods and live without utilities or money or grocery stores may seem far fetched but it is
what this country will be facing in the coming total dollar collapse. Consider your preps, knowledge, and fortitude and see where you need to
improve. Those who think God will rapture them if there is a hard time coming needs to look back at the Bible and look at all the times believers thought that the end was here and expected rapture at any moment. I am
a believing Christian who believes God will rapture us when he is ready and not when we want him to. Did he rapture when other countries collapsed? Or during WWII? or when the Christians were fed to the Lions?
The Bible says to prepare yourself, and also says God favors those who take care of themselves and their neighbors, family and the needy.

We cannot prepare to take care of the world but we can prepare to take care of ourselves our immediate families and maybe set aside some rice,
beans, and some other food items for our immediate neighbors even if you give them their food anonymously. I have 2 widows and a retarded girl living next to us as well as a home for disabled vets. I would like to
have a 50 lb. bag of rice and 25 lb. bag of pintos to share with them.

I will be growing my garden and will offer them some seed to grow some vegetables for themselves with a little physical help getting them started.
I will be willing to share my canning equipment to help them can their surplus but I will not be able to help them with jars and lids. I am hoping they will have some of this already. My husband can build solar dehydrators if we can find the materials to do it. Maybe from abandoned houses. Screens, wood, etc. will make that possible.

We all need to think of the possibilities and opportunities and then the ability to defend ourselves from the Butch's of this world. Community if you have to survive in place is a good idea. Help your neighbor if possible and protect each other if possible. But the name of the game is to survive in a way that you will be able to look yourself in the mirror.

My 2 cents worth.

Kaytastrophy


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

was 'Butch' one of _these_?:


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## Kabtsu (Nov 10, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> was 'Butch' one of _these_?:


Momy, thers a man in black holding a gun banging on the door. Should we let him in?


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## wildone_uk (Aug 9, 2010)

what an A-HOLE from what i have read on this site and outhers the first prepper butch
meets will be his last


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I think Butch is just a 10 YO setting in class with no crayons to play with.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

wildone uk, That would be a fair assumption.


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## armchair (Dec 2, 2009)

Butch sounds exactly like my brother in-law.He's a Desert Storm Vet(Marines)and now a LEO.

He showed me some of his guns and ammo,then looked me in the eye and said the same thing.


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## greaseman (Jun 13, 2009)

being able to trick folks as part of a basic plan is probably somethingwe all should think about. I want to appear to be just as poor and hungrey as everybody else. 
Stay at home and be incogneto, while everyone else stands in a line begging for rations. There are no real pat answers for anything. Reality will be a fast changing dynamic. Everyone will have to make quick , hard decisions that might be distastefull. I know that I will have to learn to turn away from hungry people, and not give it a second thought. We will all have to get used to a "new normal". Most people think that things will just continue the way they've always been. Soon, nothing will ever be the same as it has, and will never be the same again in our lifetimes. The die has been cast, and the new paln is being run, but most don't get it. This change gets easier to see every day.
Good luck all, we'll need it.


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## Ron22 (Oct 30, 2009)

armchair said:


> Butch sounds exactly like my brother in-law.He's a Desert Storm Vet(Marines)and now a LEO.
> 
> He showed me some of his guns and ammo,then looked me in the eye and said the same thing.


The fact that he's a LEO is what makes that really scary. Having cops running around shaking people down will just accelerate the descent into chaos


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

Butch is the kind of guy large back yards are made for.

I feel sick people can consciously plan to take from others because they are too lazy to provide for themselves. That desperate (and oblivious) people will do desperate things, I fully understand. But to actually be smart enough to see the issue, yet still plan to abuse others is just one step too far in my book.

V.


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## dosadi (Oct 10, 2010)

I would like to weigh in on the list.

(Yes "butches" will exist, so to will starving people who have nothing left, often with children, Telling them "no" is going to be much harder than dealing with butch.)

I am going to just ramble on a bit below to attempt to illustrate the difficulty in simple lists.

IMHO the most important thing is what you know, and how many ways you can adapt and improvise. Sooner or later if things get grubby, the ideal solution is not going to be available. Looking at how things were handled in the past is often a way to prepare for hard times that may come in the future.

This list triggered a lot of thinking, and as Gun info seems to be a major focus for many who prepare for grubby times, I want to consider a few other things.

That said, I feel that a Homestead, with all the modern luxuries, but also with the ability to drop back to pre-electric times such as was common it the early 1900's (say 1920 - 1940 ish in rural America) offers the best hope for the coming futures I fear.

Add in a healthy sprinkling of security to include but not limited to weapons and training; Dogs / ferrets / cats (vermin control); and neighborhood mutual assistance pacts.

Lehman's catalog (also online) is you homestead pre-electric friend.

Also old time cook books and books on butchering and preserving your animals and crops.

If your circumstances permit, developing edible plant foraging / hunting / fishing / indigenous food and herb knowledge should be studied. Get books for your region also.

With that in mind here are some of my rambles. Hope they spark your drive to learn and help you get more prepared.

Oh, and yes, *lists *are a great starting point for thinking, but just having the things on a list is only the starting point. You need to be able to use those things and improvise / adapt things to your situations.

I do not claim to be any expert, and this information is exactly worth what you pay for it.

Of all the things / tools of value, the first is:

A KNIFE.

Second is the ability to make:

FIRE.

Third is the ability to make:

Cordage.

With these three and sufficient knowledge man can provide all the essentials to sustain himself while improving his situation. YMMV, and this is JMHO.

If you can find people who lived in the depression of the 30's; people who recall the events of the Wiermier Republic creating Fiat currency during the 20's and the subsequent economic collapse, or the way non combatants adapt to military zones such as in Koskovo in the former Yugoslavia, do so.

On a more current note, read up on, and if possible talk / email / chat / etc with people who were in New Orleans after Katrina. Pay attention to what they wished they had and did not have. Look at the responses from 'Big Brother" and draw your own conclusions. Pay attention to the fact that in a limited disaster such as this, "rule of law" will still exist, and your supplies may be taken, you may be forcibly "evacuated"; weapons confiscated at gun point, or shot by being mistaken as a "looter". Plan accordingly.

The best way to survive a limited area disaster is to NOT BE THERE when it happens. Bugging out / in is a less good choice.

Any preparation is better than none. Be prepared to loose all your supplies and have to adapt from "naked baby status".

Survival is a mind set, not a item.

I had the opportunity to be in Yugoslavia during the 90's and saw the way people adapted to what was essentially a post apocalyptic world (PAW).

Rule one was the basic needs:

*Water (Obtaining, transporting, storing, purifying.)
*Security (being invisible, lines of retreat, bomb shelters, etc.)
*Clothing / shelter (Durability, repair, minimum warmth, cleanliness, comfort)
*Medical (Obtaining / providing; materials improvisitation / substitution; Knowledge of basic and advanced medecine treatments.)
*Intelligence (Radio, word of mouth, observation)
*Movement/travel (Transportation alternatives / options. Shoes, Physical endurance, Dealing with TPTB)

Forming word of mouth relationships to keep informed of places to get water, and perhaps other supplies developed.

Trust was limited, and depended upon individual honor (A man's word is his bond kind of thing.)

Violence was endemic, sanitation had to include diseases and dead bodies (Human and animal)

Water was King.

Electricity was iffy, and batteries were in high demand (valuable trade item)

I saw several car alternators being spun by lawn mower motors fitted to the deck used to charge car batteries to power some 12 volt stuff. (Inverters were unavailable, but can now be bought at wally world for fairly cheap if that is important to you, but has limited value.)

Gold / silver / rings and jewlery were the primary Cash. Getting the trade script / currency of TPTB if one could buy from them was valued.

Thievery was rampant, and often settled by individuals. The local police and military just could not handle the level of breakdown.

Gardens were attempted, but often trashed by others / robbed. 
This included members of TPTB using their 'authority / guns" to take from others. (Plan for this if you will / can.)
Small containers on top of buildings gave some valuable vitamins / diversity in food, but a lot of people depended upon hand outs. 
(In Conus if the breakdown was nation / world wide, who would provide the hand outs. This is logical reason to store several years worth of food in case crops are stolen, along with seeds for several attempts at planting.)

Salt (salt is money it is so important to preserving / sustaining life in grubby times.)

Spices to cover tainted / semi spoiled food will be useful both for oneself and as a trade item. Just look at the early spice trade in the dark ages between 
Europe and Asia.

Keeping a good store of Vitamins can be important. Also knowing of alternatives such as pine needle tea to supply vitamin C can prevent lots of diseases.

Get books on medicine and any training you can.

Soap (and how to home make it) is important. In breakdowns prevention of infection is important. In Nam, (Vietnam) soap was a much a medicine as a simple luxury. Just by practicing sanitation and keeping oneself clean a lot of sickness and infections can be prevented. Also soap will be almost a good a trade item as spices.

Paramedic training would be invaluable. (learn alternatives to commercial items however.)
a copy of:
Greys Anatomy (I have seen paper back copies for a dollar in used book stores / on dollar tables at the local grocery store in times past.)

You can download a lot of medical books in PDF from and get a place like kinko;s to print and bind you a hard copy.

I value "limited war surgery"

"where there is no doctor (dentist)

a copy of the physicians desk reference and other books to identify uses for "found medicines should times get grubby.

Herbal medicinal books.

At the university libraries there are often old pharmacopoeias that were published many years ago, that contain the making of medicines from herbs, and the uses for them.
One can obtain sutures still in the sterile packs off of places like ebay, even if they have expired.

Get a pressure cooker that can be used to sterilize / reuse items. (If one had a old time autoclave from a physicians office that would be nice also. These would be "antique collectibles")

There are sources that list Veterinarian / farmers Co-op animal medications and how to adapt them to humans in emergencies, but My info is collected into a notebook from interviews with old vets / farmers / etc. Do your own research on this item while you have time.

Get a suture from your doctor, make cuts into oranges and later a piece of chicken meat and sew it up. Re-thread with dental floss. (If you tell your friendly nurse / doctor you just want to learn how it is done, they may give you a short lesson. (Whenever possible observe Doctors / nurses sew up others. I did this when my kids were cut, or when I took someone from work in for stitches. Nothing like seeing it done to see how to do something.)

Make friends with doctors / medical people. If you can provide medical items / herbal meds / etc, many Doctors will trade their skills for your equipment, and that is wonderful. I have several good friends in the medical field, and I plan on feeding / providing them with a place to practice emergency medicine if times get grubby in exchange for having a trained medical person on hand. One was a member of Dr's without borders and saw a lot of improvised medicine in places where things were really TEOTWAWKI compared to what we are used to now.

Transportation

Walking , bicycling, carts, motorcycles, horses (cows can be ridden - see oxen) Vehicles, boats, sail & motor & row. You get the idea.

Walking is the primary means and shoes will be important.

Learn how to make tire tread sandals.

learn how to knit socks.

even in cold climates, Thick wool socks and tire tread sandals will be similar to what the early Norse / vikings wore.

Wool retains about 90% of its insulating ability even when wet. For hard times in cool / cold, wool is your friend.

Sorry I have to cut this short, as my son has to go to Dr.

Hope ya'll enjoy this novel of rambles.

Dosadi.


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## frankd4 (Oct 22, 2010)

*pest control*

We have a honey pot that is food that is easily seen that can be hulled off it's a great way to get rid of looters for it will surely be their last meal, cyanide has it's uses.


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## MrTinkerTrain (May 9, 2009)

*Butch thinks he's got the world by the ..lls*

Its probably a lot of talk, but if SHTF, no one is gonna trust a stranger. 

Bartering will be done with guards near by to keep everyone attending in check.

it will be bad... if SHTF... :dunno:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

MrTinkerTrain said:


> Its probably a lot of talk, but if SHTF, no one is gonna trust a stranger.
> 
> Bartering will be done with guards near by to keep everyone attending in check.
> 
> it will be bad... if SHTF... :dunno:


My greatest misunderstanding is how preppers think they can maintain a garden....a fence isn't realistic, they can climb over---most of us have--and guarding all night isn't realistic either.

Would I shoot someone over an ear of corn>>

It's easier just to store canned corn and pray the country is put back on track soon after collapse.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

JayJay said:


> My greatest misunderstanding is how preppers think they can maintain a garden....a fence isn't realistic, they can climb over---most of us have--and guarding all night isn't realistic either.
> 
> Would I shoot someone over an ear of corn>>
> 
> It's easier just to store canned corn and pray the country is put back on track soon after collapse.


Depending on where you are a garden would be safe. Some of the folks on here are out in the middle of "nowhere" and would/should not have a problem. Others that are in more urban areas may have a problem.

If SHTF and folks are trying to steal from your garden, yes I would have someone on guard duty. If they can get in to the garden, they would eventually be able to get in to the house. Depending on how many people you have at your place, having a rotating guard is something that can be done.

Do I want to shot some one over an ear of corn? No. To protect my family and keep my kids fed? Yes.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

mdprepper said:


> Do I want to shot some one over an ear of corn? No. To protect my family and keep my kids fed? Yes.


couldn't have said THAT better myself :congrat:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I hear ya!!


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## trishja (Nov 28, 2010)

*Butches of the world*

The butches of the world were my convincing factor
I am an immigrant
my mom was an immigrant as well up until 2 yrs ago
we live in a largely immigrant town in ma
this is as my mom is close to retirement and i am limited with a work visa
we are both low income wage earners in the health feild
while arguing re the need for prepping and taking over our apartment with her 'garbage' my mom pointed out the likelyhood of us 2 women surviving in our town if the economy collapsed any further- which we agreed it prob would
this is a very scary thought as i live in a town of Butches, Crips, Bloods, Hells Angels etc
Trust me when i say in social work i interact daily with clients who prefer to hustle and steal than go through the bother of working

If you are able to arm yourself and keep free of the butches do so
I will do it myself as soon as im legally allowed.lol.
till then ill stock up and save for a plot of land in a area with less crime


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