# Secret BOL Communications



## sailaway

Scenario: You have a secret BOL that absolutely no one knows about. You don't want anyone to know where it is either. Your Cell phone has a GPS that tells where you are everytime you make a call. How and what communications devices will you use to contact your family and friends. Will you leave the site and go miles away to use your phone? keep it turned off at the BOL? Do you have a plan to get your family to the BOL without phone use? My kids are scattered around and this is something I must considder for getting us together safely. Or am I just paranoid?:nuts::dunno:


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## kbamvakais

Easiest answer, MAKE sure your family knows where it is or have a meeting place on the way there, thats the plan we have for my parents, sisters, ect... not only for the fact that new phones have GPS but also i would imagine all line would be flooded anyway and you couldnt make or recieve calls.


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## pdx210

not sure thats a big concern ....whats the theory :dunno: someone or government  will track your location drive, walk, run whatever to see if you have supplies? if you have cell phone service i'm thinking things aren't that bad 

I'd be more concerned about some random person stumbling upon it.


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## pdx210

After thinking about this i have something to add maybe some of you don't know that should be more concerning than your cell phone

Go to Google and search your screen name watch what pops up these forums and info are cashed on Google and other servers more importantly your IP address is stored and easily traced back to you. All of what happens on the net like this forum is cashed on servers some of it forever you are not anonymous here. 

IF martial law was to happen authorities would have unlimited access to this data they could browse these forums, find members with large reserves, firearms, fuel and trace the IP to the source and show up at your door step. I'm not saying this would happen but this is a reality with the wed today and it's much more likely than tracing your cell phone IMO


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## TechAdmin

I would hope they are more concerned with the looters and criminals to be worried about a food stockpile.


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## sailaway

pdx210 said:


> After thinking about this i have something to add maybe some of you don't know that should be more concerning than your cell phone
> 
> Go to Google and search your screen name watch what pops up these forums and info are cashed on Google and other servers more importantly your IP address is stored and easily traced back to you. All of what happens on the net like this forum is cashed on servers some of it forever you are not anonymous here.
> 
> IF martial law was to happen authorities would have unlimited access to this data they could browse these forums, find members with large reserves, firearms, fuel and trace the IP to the source and show up at your door step. I'm not saying this would happen but this is a reality with the wed today and it's much more likely than tracing your cell phone IMO


Pdx210, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I also think if need be each call you have made can be traced to a particular lattitude and longitude. You can be followed across the country.


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## NaeKid

Even if you relied on radio communications, your signal could be triangulated to your location. There are HAM's who enjoy frequency-tracking / triangulating signals, especially "illegal" transmitters.

Its doesn't really matter what we do - we all can be tracked some way by someone. Even out in the furthest reaches, a person could be manually tracked ...


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## pdx210

whats unique here we talk about the reserves we are building and these posts can be traced back to individuals. I don't know if this something to be concerned about but since we're talking about cell phone trace to a bug out here we are. I know the first rule in government is self preservation and the first thing that 's going to happen in a SHTF is martial law, a suspension of constitutional rights no search warrants, no due process and asset confiscation. At some point government will figure out they need supplies you may become the store. they can pull records from stores, fuel suppliers If the servers at Google for example still work they can do the same with the web


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## sailaway

I think it is a very good idea to have stock piled supplies scattered, if some random person does find your BOL they wont find everything. My scenerio about communications at your BOL stems from the possibility you were being hunted the way the Nazi's hunted Jews. How could you hide out and communicate?


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## NaeKid

Hang on a second .. isn't your BOL a floating fortress?

If your BOL is landlocked and your name is on the title of the location where your BOL is - the government already knows where it is. If you can purchase / title your BOL as a corporation or LLC you might be able to slide under the radar for a while.

Now - as for the forums, yes, I have your IP addresses and yes I can reverse-trace you with the right tools. But, by your use of an alias, you are putting another level of hiding from the government. Don't give out too much specific information in the forums and whenever possible put in misleading information without actually lying.

When I talk about my preps, it is usually in fairly general terms and I am expecting that the majority of the members here also talk in general terms. Whenever I talk in specifics, it is due to the nature of the preps (ie: my office-stash) and the fact that they are rotated quickly.

OffGrid living is becoming a little more common-place with our local power company helping people become grid independent (WildMist is going on a seminar next week hosted by the company she works for - the local power company).


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## WildMist

NaeKid said:


> (WildMist is going on a seminar next week hosted by the company she works for - the local power company).


I did go to that seminar and you gotta love working for a company that wants to help you use alternative and sustainable energy. Not only that but I received explicit information on how to build a Net-Zero home.
The things I learn at my work will help NaeKid and I not only prepare for when the SHTF but build an off-grid home. 
I say this to my boss all the time but she has no idea how much I mean it. I LOVE MY JOB!!! :2thumb:


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## 101airborne

You can also get a "burn phone" a simple pre-paid cellular phone from a vending machine or convinence store. These phones work just like a normal cell phone but the do not have the gps chip in them and do not show who they belong to on "records" the best "big brother" can do is show what tower you are "hitting"


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## sailaway

oldsoldier said:


> You can also get a "burn phone" a simple pre-paid cellular phone from a vending machine or convinence store. These phones work just like a normal cell phone but the do not have the gps chip in them and do not show who they belong to on "records" the best "big brother" can do is show what tower you are "hitting"


Oldsoldier, I wondered about these, I wasn't sure about the GPS Chip.:scratch


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## sailaway

oldsoldier said:


> You can also get a "burn phone" a simple pre-paid cellular phone from a vending machine or convinence store. These phones work just like a normal cell phone but the do not have the gps chip in them and do not show who they belong to on "records" the best "big brother" can do is show what tower you are "hitting"


I wondered about these, I wasn't sure about the GPS Chip.:scratch


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## 101airborne

sailaway said:


> I wondered about these, I wasn't sure about the GPS Chip.:scratch


 Most of your cheap phones ( prepaid) in the $20-$40 range don't come with a GPS chip like the "normal" cell phone does. As I posted before the most that can be tracked is the tower you are operating off of and if you limit the length of the call and turn off the phone/remove the battery when not in use many times they can't even get that much.


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## TechAdmin

I only use track phones. But that based more out of the desire to not be in debt for using a phone.


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## 101airborne

Dean said:


> I only use track phones. But that based more out of the desire to not be in debt for using a phone.


Pretty much the same principle. less likely to be trackable.


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## Expeditioner

If push comes to shove you could use the old cans and string method....but you would have to cut the string and wind up it up before someone trys to follow the string :ignore:


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## 101airborne

Expeditioner said:


> If push comes to shove you could use the old cans and string method....but you would have to cut the string and wind up it up before someone trys to follow the string :ignore:


Thanks a lot!!! now I've gotta clean pepsi off you computer screen.LOL


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## NaeKid

Breaking news via the AP



Associated Press said:


> *Justice Dept. wants phone locales without warrant*
> By MARYCLAIRE DALE (AP)
> 
> *PHILADELPHIA* - Should the government be allowed to track a person's movements based on cell phone records, without evidence of criminal wrongdoing?
> 
> A showdown on the issue unfolded Friday in a federal appeals court in Philadelphia, as the Justice Department battled electronic-privacy groups.
> 
> The privacy groups say the information could reveal when someone goes to a religious service, medical clinic or political rally, or is having an extramarital affair. Third U.S. Circuit Judge Dolores Sloviter seemed to share that concern.
> 
> "You know there are governments in the world that would like to know where some of their people are or have been," Sloviter challenged Justice Department lawyer Mark Eckenwiler, an associate director of criminal enforcement operations.
> 
> "Can the government assure us that it will never try to find out these things?" she asked. "Don't we have to be concerned about this? Not this government right now, but a government?"
> 
> Law enforcement agencies hope to obtain cell phone location data from cellular providers without first showing probable cause of a crime - and without the customer's knowledge. The data comes from cell phone towers, and in densely populated cities can pinpoint a person's location to within a few hundred yards.
> 
> The issue is not whether the government can obtain the information, but whether a probable-cause warrant should be required first.
> 
> "An individual has no Fourth Amendment-protected privacy interest in business records, such as cell-site usage information, that are kept, maintained and used by a cell phone company," Eckenwiler wrote in his brief.
> 
> Sloviter countered by asking Eckenwiler why there was a need to skip a probable-cause showing, saying that she knew no magistrates reluctant to grant search warrant applications.
> 
> He replied that the relevant law does not require them. Eckenwiler said probable-cause warrants are only needed to obtain the contents of electronic communications, such as a text or e-mail, or to wiretap a phone. He believes the 1986 Electronics Communications Privacy Act allows police to obtain "non-content" data without a warrant.
> 
> After Friday's hearing, Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., chief author of the 1986 law, said his committee would revisit the legislation this year.
> 
> "The question of how best to protect these digital communications, while providing law enforcement with the tools that it needs to keep us safe, has no simple answer. But, what is clear is that our federal electronic privacy laws are woefully outdated," Leahy said in a statement.
> 
> The appeal heard Friday stems from a Pittsburgh drug-trafficking case, in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives sought the data as an investigative tool because the suspects frequently changed vehicles and residences.
> 
> Magistrate Lisa Pupo Lenihan denied the 2008 request, calling the information "extraordinarily personal and potentially sensitive."
> 
> The Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union asked that Lenihan's ruling stand.
> 
> Eckenwiler challenged the notion that government access to location data would turn a person's phone into a "tracking device." He said the ATF was only seeking past cell phone use in the drug case.
> 
> However, a professor of cyberspace law called the distinction negligible. Police could ask a cell phone provider for historical data and then ask again a month later - thereby achieving the same end, argued Susan Freiwald, a University of San Francisco law professor.
> 
> "Most cell phone users would be unpleasantly surprised, if not outraged, to learn that a law enforcement agent could gain access to their location information without first obtaining a warrant based on a showing of probable cause," she wrote in a "friend of the court" brief.
> 
> Sloviter is joined on the three-judge panel by Judge R. Jane Roth, who was absent from the bench Friday, and visiting 9th Circuit Judge A. Wallace Tashima. The judges suspended the usual 30-minute time limit for oral arguments, extending the session to 80 minutes.
> 
> Tashima questioned Freiwald's contention that the phone-location data lets police invade the privacy of the home. Freiwald believes the information can suggest when people are home, when they are awake and who might be with them.
> 
> "We should be able to use our cell phones without them creating a virtual map of our movements and associations," Freiwald argued.
> 
> Copyright © 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


I found this article on my WII-news channel and did a Google-search to find it. It was a fairly difficult article to find, so, copy / paste it for you all to see and read. What are your thoughts on this?


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## sailaway

NaeKid, those questions in that article are always rolling around in my mind. Interesting how hard you have to look to find something that has a direct effect on our rights.


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## bunkerbob

I'm sure they will get the info one way or another, with or without a warrant, if they are determined, and believe they are in the right. They have unlimited resources at their disposal just as we do, we just have to pay for it.



> NaeKid, those questions in that article are always rolling around in my mind. Interesting how hard you have to look to find something that has a direct effect on our rights.


I don't think it is that hard to find anymore.


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## 101airborne

bunkerbob said:


> I'm sure they will get the info one way or another, with or without a warrant, if they are determined, and believe they are in the right. They have unlimited resources at their disposal just as we do, we just have to pay for it.


Cellular calls UNLIKE landline calls are transmitted just like radio channels. If you know the proper frequencies. ( I have a list somewhere I found a year or so ago) You can also moniter cellular as well as cordless home phone conversations by simply programming them into a scanner ( Older one as many of the newer ones have a block built in to prevent doing so).


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## NaeKid

The old analog cell-phones could be listened into using a radio-scanner just as the original cordless house-phones could be listened in.

If you get one of the new dect-phones, they use a digital encryption so that there is no "bleed-over" for the signals. New cell-phones have been using the digital format for years now. Only the cell companies will be able to "listen-in" on the conversations and, because of the nature of text messages, they will be able to keep copies of all messages if they wish.

Now, if someone can get a hold of your phone, they can install an "invisible app" on it that will allow them to track your position and record every conversation and text-message that is used on your phone. They can also turn your cell-phone into a microphone and use it to listen-in on private conversations (business meetings).


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## 11D20

*BOL and communications*

First....The only way to be secure with a cell phone is to have the battery out of it, period; nothing less....you can be tracked and listen too with the phone OFF~!

The best form of secure communications is by mouth, period....Not by phone, not by radio....A good book to read and keep for your own is a book called: "Patriots and the coming Collapse" Learn it, memorize it, share it with your family, or group....;

Like in the army, have a rally point, a second rally point and several bol, in case one is compromised!....You'll also need perimeter sensors, like the old TRC3A sensors, or the PSR-1A hard wired sensors....Making a Shotgun perimeter sensor is also a good idea....I will not tell you how to make them, just think about it and of course, pull the shot out of the shells....You just want the loud boom to warn you and scare the heck out of the intruder.....

I have been living in an RV that I call my billygoat and have been traveling the state of 
Arizona for the last 10 years...I am always looking for areas that have fresh water, temperate climate and the necessary food or ground to grow food....I'm not easy to find...

Moreover, staying in one spot is senseless, if chaos becomes in this country....I agree with several cashes mapped out, not with GPS, because GPS can be shut off...Map it, rock cairn it , in several locations so that you'll be able to find it......Most of all, you'll have to keep moving....
Being a ham radio operator, you must learn to listen, instead of talk.... Intell gathering of news....Remember Katrina, when they forced you out of your home and took away everyone's guns?

Make plans with your group and recite those plans over and over, do not write them down, because that is information that can be gathered on you and your group....Know each BOL, by heart and what to do in the case one is compromised and where to move next....

when gathering intell remember the word "SALUTE".....Size, armor/armorment, location, unit, time and equipment.....Mental notes of places and equipment and again, do not write anything down....

11D20 is Armor recon scout


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## EmergencyComms

Bottom line here is that if you do not want to be tracked or traced - do not use the following:

Cell fones - of all type - if they have GPS or not - you can be tracked and traced via satellites

Pay Phones - All fixed telephone systems hit at some point a digital exchange - the exchange will give the originating call details so you can be traced - by simply calling a family member to say your safe!

Radio systems - These can be tracked DF's and again via satellite

Pay for Gas with credit card - pay cash and avoid large gas stations with CCTV cameras

Large towns and City's - have large CCTV systems, transport systems also

If you have to communicate with family - let them know of pre-arranged drop points so that you can leave a letter/message. Have several drop points and use a different one each month etc.

You can use a simple code of using an Alfa or Alfa and number to represent a phrase - for example: A1 = I'm ok, A8= will contact you D4 = Monday
So message would read A1,A8,D4 = ( I'm ok will contact you Monday) you can write this (A1,A8,D4) on a drop letter.

You can make numerous phrases and only your family will know what they are.

Again you can change the code/Phrases each week/month

For the soldiers here - it's similar to BATCO - short immediate code for radio transmission that has a 72 hour use after that change the code.....

Safest transport is public train or bus - pay cash.

Finally for now if you know morse code own a shortwave transmitter - you could use the simple alfa code and send it in morse code.

A short alfa/numeric coded message can be sent in approx 6 seconds that could contain a long phrased message (shortned by the Alfa/numeric code) This short coded message is almost impossible to direction find.


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## Diego2112

Me and mine use word of mouth almost EXCLUSIVE... if we DO use radio (we'll all be within 5 miles of each other VERY soon), it's in bursts, and coded speak.

We're also learning Gaelic, Japanese, German, Russian, and Mandarin, in addition to me and my parents already knowing Arabic. Other languages are AMAZING for coded speak.

Best way is, as stated SEVERAL times, have a drop point/rendezvou, and have SEVERAL in case one is FUBAR.


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## ZoomZoom

Regarding coded approach, be sure you have a code that can generate a new message (basically, the letters of the alphabet).

I caught a show on the Military channel about a month ago that some really important message needed to be sent to field commanders. The communications office didn't send it because they didn't have a phrase for it. Unfortunately, not receiving that comm, people paid for it with their lives.


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## SolarDeco

What is BOL?


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## bunkerbob

SolarDeco said:


> What is BOL?


 *B* Bug *O* out *L* location

More acronyms can be found in the Website Comments and Suggestions section in a thread called: FAQ: Standard Acronyms


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## The_Blob

MagicJack hooked up to a laptop (running XP or older OS or Ubuntu Linux (Better)) & others' wireless networks

there is almost NO verification process for identification (just validation e-mail)

I've used mine at spare USB ports @ restaurants/pubs, the library (there are individual computer cubicles that are almost soundproofed at a couple libraries around here)

I also buy almost everything with CASH the few things that require a credit card I use pre-paid credit cards (that I bought with cash  )


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## Diego2112

The_Blob said:


> I also buy almost everything with CASH the few things that require a credit card I use pre-paid credit cards (that I bought with cash  )


That's a damn fine idea, friend. Thanks kindly! I know how I'll be doing my future webernets purchases!


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## rflood

Wow. Lots of things I never gave any thought to but now I'm like oh crud, time to get my act together.


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## HarleyRider

Damn.... I never thought of that.  Thanks for a great idea that I will definitely start using. :congrat::congrat::congrat:


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## ed12371

*Ze phone issue.*

I'm not sure it's going to be important?

So the SHTF, more than likely telecommunications would be flooded or down and may not come back online for a while?

As stated previously, nothing you talk about here should be pinpoint able.
General terms on what are good ideas or person attitudes with certain products or experiences are fine.

When it comes to BOL's this is something very few should know and probably not located to close to where you live.

When it does come to the SHTF time, then very hard decisions have to be made. You're not going to try and save and take your whole family to a BOL.

I advise other members of my family and close friends that a preparedness plan is a great idea and help any of them who inquire more about it. But come crunch time only those who prepare will survive. Other's who scoff or can't be bothered to prepare have made their bed.

If we are talking about a "real" world wide/home disaster then the last thing you will be doing is making phone calls. If you do want to communicate with "friendlies" at other BOL locations I suppose this would be an exception.

As stated in previous comments if and when you "might" need to use telecommunications and there are structures in place to make it possible a basic hand set will be adequate.

I have decided to use Morse code as a form communication between the people who will join me in my BOL. An oldie but a goodie. It can be use over many mediums cb, radio, phone, light etc....

Should we find ourselves separated over a long distance?


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## SolarDeco

Thank You, Bunkerbob


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## kyfarmer

For $20 WTF i,ll get one, can't hurt to have it handy. Thanks Bunkerbob


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## CulexPipiens

Diego2112 said:


> That's a damn fine idea, friend. Thanks kindly! I know how I'll be doing my future webernets purchases!


Um... but you'll have to provide a shipping address. Kind of defeats the point of a mostly untraceable credit card. Now if you could get an anonymous PO box or something... maybe one of those UPS stores. Or have it shipped to your office if they allow that. Just nothing big or too often or people will notice.


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## sailaway

CulexPipiens said:


> Um... but you'll have to provide a shipping address. Kind of defeats the point of a mostly untraceable credit card. Now if you could get an anonymous PO box or something... maybe one of those UPS stores. Or have it shipped to your office if they allow that. Just nothing big or too often or people will notice.


People I knew from a previous life style would have governmentally controlled mood altering substance shipped to correct addresses in the USA, but put a ficticious name on them. They would wait 2 weeks before opening, if the authorities showed up in the mean time, they would give them the package and tell them that nobody by that name lives there.


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## unclebob

rule one, Opsec
rule two, refer to rule one
:sssh:


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## frankd4

*HAM two Meter*

I can hit a repeater from thirty miles away with my 2 meter rig that's a big area to cover as long as your on the move dam hard to pin you down.


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## Fn/Form

NaeKid said:


> ...If you get one of the new dect-phones, they use a digital encryption so that there is no "bleed-over" for the signals...


DECT relates to home cordless phones, not cell phones.

Current cell phones work on multiplexing techniques (look up TDMA, CDMA, etc.) to share the same frequencies among many callers. This is a much more efficient use of bandwidth. It is not encrypted, per se, but it might as well be for 99% of us. You can't listen in to them without specialized equipment.

But that equipment IS affordable and available to organizations such as governmental agencies and drug cartels.

Also, some private companies are working to put enough processing horsepower in a scanner to decode those encoding techniques. This is due to public safety wanting to take the natural next step in the information ladder... and the scanner companies want to keep up. There are a few working models out there but nothing has been put in production.


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## arawak-prime

*Private Telephone Systems*

Has anyone considered the use of a private, non-networked, telephone system?

There are several types which can be used at BOL sites, hunting camps, favorite camping/fishing/hunting locations.

1- Sound powered. 
2- Magneto telephones (aka: Crank telephones)
3- Hot Ring-Down circuits

*Sound Powered. * Just what it says, short range, powered by piezo electric microphones in the handsets. Simple. Two handsets, two wires.

*Magneto Telephones.* Been around forever. Equipment is still available NEW from several manufacturers, especially on the internet. Mostly used in 3rd world countries. Major manufacturer is in India. I have wired-up several Scout Camps, and clusters of hunting cabins over the years.

If you are like me, and want to purchase 'Made in the USA' equipment, consider purchasing military surplus field phones from eBay. Look for TA-312/PT or TA-1/PT MILITARY FIELD PHONES.

Steer clear of the old (WW2 vintage) EE-8 series phones, unless they are functional and in extremely good condition. These are mostly collectors items.

Several handsets, a few hundred to a few thousand feet of 2-conductor twisted-pair wire, and you are in business.

*Hot Ring-Down telephone circuits.* These are sometimes called DIRECT LINE telephones. You pick up one phone, the other rings. Simple. Uses modern touch-tone or older dial telephones. The heart of the system is the ring-down control device. Ramsey Electronics makes a good one which can be purchased on-line or on eBay. (Search for: Ramsey QLRD1 Automatic Telephone Ringdown.) They can be found for under $100.

My 2-cents worth.


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## BlueShoe

Why does government want to find me out of a million people? :dunno:


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## BillM

*Communication with famiely*

The US goverment is going to shut down all radio , cell TV and internet communications for three miniuts on November 9th at 1:00 pm CST.

What emergency would the goverment envision where it would be benificial to prevent the public and private citizens from communicating with each other or obtaining news ?

Back to communicating with your famiely, some well tested but rudimentery spy craft would be reliable.

Start with a famiely plan such as , if sudden disaster occurs, everyone is to immediatly proceed to _______ location.

If you are traveling to a BOL, decide on a symbol unique to your famiely unit that will have meaning only to them , such as a circle with three horizontal dots.

This would indicate that you have traveled this way and that a drop would be located at the next telephone pole past the symbol.

You would then leave a note with your communication, in a plastic bag buryed beside the pole.

Useing this type of communications will allow seperated famiely members to travel and communicate with each other while not having to rely on technological com's that may or may not be working.

Spys use this type of com's effectivly.

Signals and drops have worked sucessfully for hundreds of years.


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