# My first attempt at growing anything



## Obligated

This year I began educating myself about self sufficiency. In all honesty, I have never even planted flower seeds.

Today I decided to dig up a small area in the back yard for a garden. I will never look at food the same way again.

I would like to ask if I am doing this correctly. I have been digging up the dirt, removing the grass, weeds, etc. I will purchase a few bags of gardening soil and rake it all together. Then I will plant the my seeds and plants. 

I want to teach myself to do as much manually as possible...no roto tillers. 

Thank you for any advice and support.

Terri


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## TheAnt

The first thing I would recommend is one (at least) of many books on the subject. They can give you information as to depth of soil, space between plants, watering instructions, care, feeding, etc. Would be VERY helpful in SHTF to have a guide or two to refer to.


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## Davarm

Learning by doing is the best way IMO, you have made a good first step. To realize the work involved in growing your own food is a good thing, it gives you an appreciation for what is on your table at supper time.

Be careful though, gardening can be very addictive!:2thumb:


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## Obligated

The Ant and Davarn,

Thank you for taking the time to encourage me. I am a hands on learner. I am thinking of this tiny venture as an experiment. After one day I have already begun to think about my "Grand plan"....


I am heading out next week to visit an organic farm for ideas. If I get a few tomatoes and corn I will consider my experiment a success....however, next year is "full speed ahead".

Our original intent was to use hand plows and horse power to farm...now I will be a bit more understanding if my sons alter the plan a bit.


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## Kellog

Welcome to the forum Terri! 
Lots of gardeners on this forum so you are in a good spot. Please understand that some of your questions may be answered by referring you to websites or books...otherwise we'd be typing all night. 

Sounds like you are off to a good start - great idea to visit a farm or other gardeners.

You may want to get a bag or two of quality compost or composted manure to work in your soil. If you have a lot of clay (stiff hard to dig soil) you can add peat moss, or even some sand also to lighten it up. You will want to keep adding organic matter year after year to build and maintain good quality soil. Fall is a good time to dig in organic matter. While your veggies are growing, you can mulch them with organic matter to help maintain moisture and build your soil up.

This is a good article for beginning gardeners:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/vegetable-gardening-for-beginners-zmaz77zbon.aspx

and here's one about composting. Pay attention to the "yes" (acceptable to compost) and the "no" columns (not acceptable) . http://www.gardeningnaturally.org/images/stories/articles/backyard_composting.pdf

Organic mulches can be dried shredded leaves, dried grass clippings, straw, old hay, etc or a mixture of these things. Dried is the key...green matter can mat or heat up when you don't want it too. Green matter (grass clippings, etc) can be mixed in compost pile to break down. (Wood chips and saw dust are okay in small amounts but they can take a while to break down.) 
Here's an article about mulches:
http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/426/426-326/426-326.html

Some good places for free info about gardening in your area are locally owned garden centers and your local county extension office. Check your local library for garden books - it's good to compare info from various sources. I'm in a really different growing zone than you are so I can't recommend my Texas specific books to you in Ohio...but your library will likely have something helpful...ask the librarians for recommendations, that's what they are there for.
Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress! :flower:


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## lilmissy0740

Dont get discouraged if you dont get enoug tomatoes or you get weeds, thats what it is all about  Ok, now that I have given myself a pep talk!
Congrats on the new garden! You will do great.


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## Davarm

Obligated said:


> I am heading out next week to visit an organic farm for ideas. If I get a few tomatoes and corn I will consider my experiment a success....however, next year is "full speed ahead".


You may want to reconsider the corn, its nice to think of those roasting ears on the table but there are problems with growing it in small plots.

For corn to produce reliably you will need multiple rows, the more the better. Corn is also rough on the soil, it generally will take all the fertilizer(organic of course) you can put on it and laugh at you while it asks for more!

My soil is marginal so I cant grow good corn without a "LOT" of work. I broke down this year and planted blue corn just to get a supply of seeds for storage.

When you visit the farm, you may want to look for alternatives - they will surely be able to answer your questions and give you plenty of guidance for your endeavor.

Good luck, enjoy and have fun!


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## oconnor1981

You are off to a great start! How big of an area are you doing? I've only been gardening for like 5 years but every year I learn something different. Organic is direction I lean towards each year I get my garden planned but common sense makes me utilize non-organic methods to correct a situation that otherwise might ruin a garden or a harvest of a particular item. For example I've been hit with hail a few times which damages just about everything and allows disease to enter through the plant injuries. I lost my whole garden one year. The next year the same thing happened. I ended up spraying my crop with a fungicide (copper) . It saved about 50% of my garden This wasn't my first choice but my alternative was to lose my garden again...in a SHTF situation it would be demoralizing and more costly. All I'm saying is a one year( or two) supply of various non-organic treatments for your garden isn't a bad idea. Basically although they can have side effects non- organic measures in my opinion are in place to prevent things like the great potato famine from occurring...just my two cents.


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## PlantLady

At least you had a shovel to dig with....My first garden was dug with a big kitchen spoon, table fork and a butcher knife. But I was able to grow tomatoes, so I was a happy person. I am sure your efforts will be worth while.


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## pixieduster

Plantlady: I am sooo laughing my butt off! I had a set of wooden spoons when I started. Boy was it exhausting. Where there is a will, there is a way. This forum is a perfect example of people who have tought outside the box to get things done............Don't give up on that garden! : )


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## Von Helman

yes the best part is getting started. Congratulations

have you seen these? I think for first time growers that look fun and easy.

http://thegardenstick.com/


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## tsrwivey

Have you thought about saving your own seed? You may want to consider planting some things that are easy to harvest your own seed from. This website will get you started: http://howtosaveseeds.com/index.php . Keeping a record of where we planted what, any problems we had & how we solved them really helped us.


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## partdeux

rototiller's are your friend. Most rental places have them. We have been purchasing local compost for the garden and tilling it in. Using natural methods for weed control, like shreaded newspaper is great to till into the soil in the fall too


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## Ncognito

partdeux said:


> rototiller's are your friend.


That's the truth. I've been borrowing one for the last couple of seasons and they've been great. I'd like to have my own, but the prices around here are unbelievably high even for used ones. One piece of equipment that I stumbled upon a couple of years ago was an old Sears Suburban and a truck load of attachments. It came with the plow, disc, mowing deck, and a sickle bar mower. It's been invaluable for a small back yard garden.


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## siletz

If you learn more by doing than by reading, I'd suggest driving around your neighborhood until you find a neighbor working out in their great looking garden in their yard. Stop and ask for a tour and pick their brain a bit for what grows well for them and little lessons they've learned. They could probably give you a wealth of info to get you started.

Oh, and congrats on getting started. To me, making new beds from sod is the hardest part of gardening. It gets better from here, so don't give up! :flower:


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## neldarez

Proud of you on your new adventure.......it is a lot of work but there is no where I would rather be than working in my garden. I know my food is fresh, the taste is awesome and I don't have to run to town to make a salad! You know you won't stop here! Next, you';ll be reading all of the dehydrating and canning threads...:congrat: Good luck and good for you..


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## ONEOLDCHIEF

First off, AWESOME, I like it when people grow their own... I know you want to get out there with your shovel and dig up your Garden spot, Don't do it, please...  Your back will thank you later...:thankyou:

If you can find someone who is willing to help break your Garden plot it makes it so much more enjoyable. :2thumb: It will also chop up the grass so it can break down and add nutrients to your soil. 

If your county extension office has a web site and you are computor savvy, go onlline to their web site and find what veggies grow in your area, this can be the difference between having a great harvest and very little. Or just call them, they should be willing to help; that is why they have a job, to help large and small scale farmers...:2thumb:

When in doubt, ASK, no such thing as a dumb question when you do not know. :gaah:

Mulch, mulch, mulch, it will hold water better and stop the weeds, :crossfinger: somewhat.
Be careful with the type of material that you mulch with, I live in NW FL, so I have a great supply of oak leaves twice a year. Grass clippings and hay may sprout or deposit weed seeds in your garden spot. Now you have another problem.
I will end with this, you have to have plenty of water,(some plants require more than others). Plenty of sunshine, and fertilizer of some sort...:flower:

Good luck:2thumb:


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## ContinualHarvest

Find out what planting zone you're in. You can use the USDA's website. Think about what you like to eat. See if those things will grow in your zone. Grow what you'll eat or use.
You're going to want your soil to be as damp as a well wrung out sponge and crumbles easily in your hand. Get a soil test. You local University Extension Office may be able to do it for you. They will test for N- Nitrogen, P-Phosphorous and K-Potassium. The three main nutrients plants need. Be sure to cover that soil with a cover crop or mulch so it doesn't wash away in the rain.
Compost. Make your own using vegetable scraps. No oils, fats meats or dairy in the compost pile! It'll draw rodents and stink.
A good compost pile will save you trips to the landfill, reduce the fuel needed to transport the scraps to the landfill and will feed your plants in 6 months to a year.
I could go on forever so I won't. Contact your Extension office for a start. Get some books. 
Some easy things to grow are bush beans and peas. They are nitrogen fixers and if you do it right, you can use succession planting and get crops all spring summer and fall.
Good luck!


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## PlantLady

ONEOLDCHIEF said:


> When in doubt, ASK, no such thing as a dumb question when you do not know. :gaah:
> 
> Mulch, mulch, mulch, it will hold water better and stop the weeds, :crossfinger: somewhat.
> Good luck:2thumb:


I totally agree!!!!!! ASK and Mulch, Mulch, Mulch.

I use mulch materials as much as possible, 2 years ago I started a new garden at a new place, the dirt was sandy and someplaces heavy clay...Now in this 3rd year I have very fluffy, dark earthy soil that has earth worms in it :2thumb: In those 2 years I used straw, cardboard, paper, wood ashes & cow manure.


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## neldarez

PlantLady said:


> I totally agree!!!!!! ASK and Mulch, Mulch, Mulch.
> 
> I use mulch materials as much as possible, 2 years ago I started a new garden at a new place, the dirt was sandy and someplaces heavy clay...Now in this 3rd year I have very fluffy, dark earthy soil that has earth worms in it :2thumb: In those 2 years I used straw, cardboard, paper, wood ashes & cow manure.


Hi plantlady, when you say you used straw, cardboard and paper....serious? Do you chop it up fine first, how would I go about chopping up straw really fine? I put straw in my garden spot before and they never did break up at all, actually constantly got poked with sharp straw ends....I would be really interested in knowing how you do this. thanks


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## Ncognito

I've got a question about compost. I keep seeing that newsprint is good, but what about shredded bills? I keep my banking/bill statements in a folder for twelve months. I put the current statement in the front and pull the last one out and shred it. I've been putting the shredded stuff in the composter as brown stuff. Turns to compost great, but is it safe?


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## Immolatus

On the one hand I wouldnt see why not, but any white paper has been bleached which might be a bad thing.


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## Ncognito

Immolatus said:


> On the one hand I wouldnt see why not, but any white paper has been bleached which might be a bad thing.


My thought is the heat will kill anything that might be bad, but I'm not totally sure.


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## Riverdale

Obligated said:


> The Ant and Davarn,
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to encourage me. I am a hands on learner. I am thinking of this tiny venture as an experiment. After one day I have already begun to think about my "Grand plan"....
> 
> I am heading out next week to visit an organic farm for ideas. If I get a few tomatoes and corn I will consider my experiment a success....however, next year is "full speed ahead".
> 
> Our original intent was to use hand plows and horse power to farm...now I will be a bit more understanding if my sons alter the plan a bit.


Corn (in a small space) is a "less than adiquate" crop (even doing the 'three sisters') {corn squash and beans}.

Remember, you can do double harvest of peas, kale, radishes and other veggies. Spring and fall.

I am a bit further north of you, but close to the same zone. If you have a question, drop me a pm and I will shoot you my phone number


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## Davarm

Ncognito said:


> I've got a question about compost. I keep seeing that newsprint is good, but what about shredded bills? I keep my banking/bill statements in a folder for twelve months. I put the current statement in the front and pull the last one out and shred it. I've been putting the shredded stuff in the composter as brown stuff. Turns to compost great, but is it safe?


I would not use shreaded bills for compost on food plants, reason being, is because of the chemicals used in the ink. While the composting process will break some of the chemicals down, it may not and probably will not take care of them all.

The ink used on news papers is soy based and is not laced with the chemicals that can be passed through to your food crops.


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## Davarm

partdeux said:


> rototiller's are your friend. Most rental places have them. We have been purchasing local compost for the garden and tilling it in. Using natural methods for weed control, like shreaded newspaper is great to till into the soil in the fall too


My Roto Tiller is my "BEST" friend. I sprang for a rear tined tiller almst 10 years ago and I consider it the best money I have ever spent. Yes, it was (very)expensive but the return was priceless.

If your garden is large, the time saved figured in with the value of your time will show you that one may not really be that outrageous after all.


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## Ncognito

Davarm said:


> I would not use shreaded bills for compost on food plants, reason being, is because of the chemicals used in the ink. While the composting process will break some of the chemicals down, it may not and probably will not take care of them all.
> 
> The ink used on news papers is soy based and is not laced with the chemicals that can be passed through to your food crops.


Thanks for the reply Dave. I couldn't find a definitive yes on the question, but the consensus seems to be that it's ok. I did read that the little cellophane windows in the envelopes will not compost and just turn into a gummy mess. Here's what I did find.

From the Sierra Club...



> Except for colored and glossy paper, which might contain some toxic heavy metals, newsprint and other paper is safe to use as mulch or in compost. In fact, one study revealed that paper had less toxic material than straw or grass!
> 
> The only problem with paper is that if you put too much of it in your heap, you could get an unfavorable carbon-to-nitrogen ratio, since paper is high in carbon (one reason it burns). But unless your finances are of a Bernie Madoffian level of complexity, your financial documents will probably not disturb the ratio! The ideal ratio is 25 carbon to 1 nitrogen.


From Yahoo Answers UK

This was a much longer answer and included links to the statements, except for the following. I would have liked to have had a link for this. Still, I feel better about using the shredded financial statements in the compost.



> This article asserts that all north american paper products are safe to use in composting, as a mulch and in the garden.
> "Ever since lead printing plates were banned in north Americal over twenty years ago, the amount of heavy metals in newsprint, magazines, and colored inserts are at background levels and are not a concern in compost or the garden based on EPA regulations. No organic gardening or farming association anywhere prohibits the use of colored paper in compost.
> Regarding using soy based inks rather than oil based inks is another common bit of folklore. First, the concentration of hydrocarbons is nearly undetectable in oil based inks and composting is the recommended TREATMENT for many hydrocarbons including oil, gasoline, hydralulic fluid, and diesel in concentrations thousands of times higher than found in paper.
> The move toward soy inks is to reduce the use of fossil fuel based ink with a renewable ink, and is a good environmental step. But it has nothing to do with any real biohazard in the paper from the hydrocarbons."


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## moose2find

I am making a garden this spring from a piece of land that was previously part of our pasture. I am looking for a good way of keeping the grass/weeds down. I have been reading about using layers of newspaper between rows, but do not have nearly enough paper saved up. I do, however, have a mountain of cardboard boxes. I am wondering if I can cut them and lay them between the rows instead of newspaper? Any thoughts?


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## Ncognito

moose2find said:


> I am looking for a good way of keeping the grass/weeds down.


Aren't we all? :lolsmash:

Cardboard should work well, and it will eventually compost into the soil.


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## Davarm

moose2find said:


> I am making a garden this spring from a piece of land that was previously part of our pasture. I am looking for a good way of keeping the grass/weeds down. I have been reading about using layers of newspaper between rows, but do not have nearly enough paper saved up. I do, however, have a mountain of cardboard boxes. I am wondering if I can cut them and lay them between the rows instead of newspaper? Any thoughts?


Cardboard should keep the weeds down and help hold moisture but it will also prevent any air from getting into the soil. The soil is full of microbes that work to add fertility and many of them need the air to live.

As for the weeds, I keep the area between rows tilled. When the weeds start to grow, out comes the Roto-Tiller. I dont have near enough material to mulch between the rows of my garden to hold the moisture in and the weeds out so the tiller gets its workout.

We have a local "Organic Gardening Personality" who has a radio show on the weekends and he is really radical about some things(The Dirt Doctor - Howard Garrett). The soil being "alive" is probably his signature theme and what I stated above is his point of view. In a perfect world his preachings/teachings would be ideal, unfortunately I dont live in that world of his so I have to compromise/improvise quite a bit.


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## moose2find

Thanks...maybe I will look for straw or something. I would sure hate to kill my soil! Tilling that often is just not that practical for me, as I have a 17 month old attached to one hip! I am feeling pretty pleased with myself having gotten some raspberry plants and a couple rows of peas in the ground while keeping rocks out of her mouth!


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## Davarm

moose2find said:


> Thanks...maybe I will look for straw or something. I would sure hate to kill my soil! Tilling that often is just not that practical for me, as I have a 17 month old attached to one hip! I am feeling pretty pleased with myself having gotten some raspberry plants and a couple rows of peas in the ground while keeping rocks out of her mouth!


Straw or hay IMO, would be the ideal material, BUT, you will need to ensure that no herbicide residue is on/in the bales.

Many people that grow, bale and sale hay, use herbicide on the fields to cut down on the weeds that get baled up with it. Wheat or oat straw, again IMO, would not be as much of a concern. The grain field may have initially been sprayed with herbicide but I cant see the field being sprayed while the crop is growing unless it is done by crop duster.

In my experience, any product or amendment that you put on your garden that has not been produced by you, is suspect. Even the commercial composts and garden mixes are not always poison free.

If you do get straw or hay, try to get it from the same source that other gardeners buy from, if they dont have trouble, you probably will not either.


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## oconnor1981

I use a couple methods to minimize weeds. First, I have a hoe like tool that actually has like a U shape or hoop on the end. They sell them at most home improvement stores and there not too expensive. Basically with this tool I can cut it through the soil right around plants and in the open areas between rows and keep my garden weed free. I have a garden that is 16' X24', so not too big, and if I get in there once twice a week I can stay on top of the weeds pretty well and it only takes about 15 minutes or so each time. Secondly, Preen makes a organic weed preventer that is comprised of soley corn gluten. You work it into your soil *after your seeds have sprouted. Not having a horticulture or biology background I can't tell you exactly what it does but it essentially prevents anything from germinating (sprouting). The Preen product isn't too cheap but being it is just corn gluten you may be able to find a source for a cheaper method than the commercialized and inflated price of Preen.

Mulching works somewhat for weed prevention but in my opinion it does a far better job of retaining necessary moisture and preventing erosion in the case of a heavy rain. Mulch also seems to do a fantastic job of creating a moist/warm environment for weeds to grow too, and it is harder to get them then. I've found they hide weeds well but mulch by itself you can't make it deep enough to prevent weeds. Just my experience. Straw is similar, and I don't know how much moisture it can retain. I think the best mulch would be compost, wood chips, and actual shredded wood mulch. I can then use the woods chips or wood mulch to overwinter some of my more delicate perennials.

In addition I will post a set of plans for a compost tumbler that I have, and might be useful to my fellow gardeners. It's made of a 55 gallon barrel and 2X6 material.*


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## Davarm

oconnor1981 said:


> Secondly, Preen makes a organic weed preventer that is comprised of soley corn gluten. You work it into your soil *after your seeds have sprouted. Not having a horticulture or biology background I can't tell you exactly what it does but it essentially prevents anything from germinating (sprouting). The Preen product isn't too cheap but being it is just corn gluten you may be able to find a source for a cheaper method than the commercialized and inflated price of Preen.
> 
> *


*

Corn Gluten Meal is basically "Grits - But Not Regular Corn Meal", the normal kitchen type, it acts as a pre-emergent by "Burning" the germinating seeds, this can also be accomplished by adding a fertilizer to the garden that has a relatively high nitrogen content. Its kinda walking a tight rope though, to little and it doesnt work, too much and it kills everything.

Sprouting seeds generally cant tolerate the CGM or higher than normal nitrogen levels.*


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## oconnor1981

Davarm said:


> Corn Gluten Meal is basically "Grits - But Not Regular Corn Meal", the normal kitchen type, it acts as a pre-emergent by "Burning" the germinating seeds, this can also be accomplished by adding a fertilizer to the garden that has a relatively high nitrogen content. Its kinda walking a tight rope though, to little and it doesnt work, too much and it kills everything.
> 
> Sprouting seeds generally cant tolerate the CGM or higher than normal nitrogen levels.


Good information. I usually just try to stay on top of my weeding but I have used the corn gluten a few times in the Spring (following application specs) and have had pretty decent luck. Only problem is that it is spendy ($12/jug) and you only get just over an application out of the jug. So applying it a few times in a season like would be ideal to keep the weeds down just isn't cost effective. I'm going to look into the grits and do a littler further research but thought I would throw the corn gluten idea out there.


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## UncleJoe

oconnor1981 said:


> *a hoe like tool that actually has like a U shape or hoop on the end. *They sell them at most home improvement stores and there not too expensive. Basically with this tool I can cut it through the soil right around plants and in the open areas between rows...


So that's what that thing is for!

Last year at an estate sale there was a farm wagon filled with long handled garden tools. Nobody would bid on it so I ended up getting it for a buck. A lot of the stuff was in bad shape but there was enough to make it worth my time to load it on my truck, bring it home and sort through it. In the lot was one of those "U" shaped tools and it never occurred to me that it would be used to get close to the plants when weeding. :thankyou: :beercheer:


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## LilRedHen

Davarm said:


> Corn Gluten Meal is basically "Grits - But Not Regular Corn Meal", the normal kitchen type, it acts as a pre-emergent by "Burning" the germinating seeds, this can also be accomplished by adding a fertilizer to the garden that has a relatively high nitrogen content. Its kinda walking a tight rope though, to little and it doesnt work, too much and it kills everything.
> 
> Sprouting seeds generally cant tolerate the CGM or higher than normal nitrogen levels.


My local feed store sells corn gluten pellets for $6.50 per 50 lbs as cattle feed.


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## oconnor1981

Ill have to check the local feed store..I'd have to grind it down as the stuff I've used before is kind of flaky/granular and breaks down quickly


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## oconnor1981

UncleJoe said:


> So that's what that thing is for!
> 
> Last year at an estate sale there was a farm wagon filled with long handled garden tools. Nobody would bid on it so I ended up getting it for a buck. A lot of the stuff was in bad shape but there was enough to make it worth my time to load it on my truck, bring it home and sort through it. In the lot was one of those "U" shaped tools and it never occurred to me that it would be used to get close to the plants when weeding. :thankyou: :beercheer:


Not only does it let you get close to plants but you can turn the top couple of inches of soil over real easy and then walk through and collect the uprooted grass,weeds, etc....helps to kinda sharpen the edge a couple times a year ...it helps reduce the drag of pulling it thru the soil


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## pixieduster

After just spending the last few hours pulling grass/weeds, I'm off to get a tool and CGM. All that work and I might lose my fluffy layer...


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## pixieduster

oconnor1981 said:


> Not only does it let you get close to plants but you can turn the top couple of inches of soil over real easy and then walk through and collect the uprooted grass,weeds, etc....helps to kinda sharpen the edge a couple times a year ...it helps reduce the drag of pulling it thru the soil


Just got the tool yesterday. Used this morning and Its my new best friend! Thanks!


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## oconnor1981

pixieduster said:


> Just got the tool yesterday. Used this morning and Its my new best friend! Thanks!


Awesome!! Yeah since I posted about it I learned one of the original names it was, a "scuttle hoe." It to is my favorite gardening tool. It certainly beats constantly getting down on my hands and knees to weed. Was it hard to find one at all, and any luck with the CGM?


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## pixieduster

Too all of 5 min to find the tool. Was to late to go to the feed store and they are closed on sundays. Will look tomrw for the CMG. = )


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## Davarm

LilRedHen said:


> My local feed store sells corn gluten pellets for $6.50 per 50 lbs as cattle feed.


If it is he same stuff, that would be the way to go, the products sold as a weed controler and soil amendment is kinda pricey. I dont remember how much it was but when I checked into it, it was high enough that I didn't buy and use it.

For $6.50/50 pounds, I may go pick up a bag tomorrow and start experimenting with it. If I do I will post the results.


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## RevWC

Getting ready to prep for growing my own garden and appreciate this thread. I need to stock up on manure, u-shaped hoe, and mulch.


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