# Retreat Options Without Buying Land



## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

No one has to tell a prepper that land is expensive, and purchasing suitable retreat property without financing it is difficult or impossible for most. Worse yet, as things continue unraveling a rural alternative seems to become more necessary by the day. Here are two seldom-considered options.

Two Retreat Options Without Buying Land, by Brad in Texas - SurvivalBlog.com


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

very nice, UJ!

anyone considered the 'Nomad' route, I mean SERIOUSLY considered it? (ie RV living)


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I have considered the nomad-life seriously for a while. They only problem is how the government considers a nomad "homeless" because you are not paying "land-taxes". 

I believe that living a "nomad" life-style has many positives, but, I think that the negatives may outweigh the positives because you will have so much trouble building up your nest-egg (money, garden, friends). People need to root themselves to an "area" where they can build a good reputation and can build-up their stocks.

If I was to go nomadic right now, I would need to have an 18-wheeler pullin' a 52' trailer just to haul my tools that I use for my "hobbies" .. and then B-train it for livin' space.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

There is VERY cheap land around, from 'Waste Lands' in the desert,
To very small tracts left over when large swaths are sold off in smaller tracts.

Also, most states have 'Habitat Exemptions',
Buy the land, promise to leave it 'Habitat' land instead of subdividing it for 'X' amount of years, and you don't pay taxes on it as long as it's listed as 'Habitat' land and kept together.

The trick of owning 'Land'...
(Land is a Misnomer in a lot of states, it's all 'Real Estate', don't kid yourself!)
Is to make the land PAY for it's self.

Recently, a local declared his 180 acres as 'Habitat' then started charging people for 'Nature Hikes' through his 'Nature Preserve'.
No taxes, $450 to $1,000 a week during the summer for folks to walk around in poison ivy and rag weeds...

We farm. Nothing like garden and chickens/rabbits!
Large gardens for decorative plants and garden produce,
Some land leased out for crops, the back side rented out for horse boarding.
More than pays the mortgage, insurance and upkeep...

Hunting leases are also a way to pay for 'Land',
If you can put up with them littering up the place, shooting at livestock and generally making a mess of things, city hunters will pay a tidy sum for the rights to hunt on your land one or two weeks a year.
Personally, I don't want them slinging lead around us and the horses, so we don't do it, but there are plenty of others that do, and it's PROFITABLE!
Some guys are getting enough from 'Turkey Season', Then 'Deer Season', and if you have water, the bird hunting leases are CRAZY EXPENSIVE...

So for about 4 weeks a year, you have to put up with 'Strangers' popping up everywhere, but they WILL pay your taxes and insurance for the year!

------------------------------

Personally, If I were on the move (Nomad) I would do like I did when young and decided to tour the US on a motorcycle...

Nothing more than a few tools and cooking stuff in saddle bags, bed rolls and cloths strapped to the bike...

I used to find a hill with a concrete drain along an interstate, and ride up the concrete rain gutter, camp on top.
Never had anyone stumble on me even one time in 4 months of doing that, and I've done it tons of times since then on trips with virtually NO ONE finding me up there...

I ran into a group of homeless (Run Aways) young folks that had taken up residence inside a bill board, one of those HUGE two sided, 'V' shaped things that had been abandoned after a tornado.
Up off the ground, partially secure, out of the elements for the most part, and they were pretty happy up there.
Not far (about a mile) from 'Civilization' and they said the local cops had NEVER hassled them since the maintenance road to the bill board had grown over.

If you want to get off the beaten path,
There are THOUSANDS of privately owned plots of land you can pick up for taxes, or 'Squat On' along the old travel routes before the interstates were built...
Old truck stops, tourist traps, ect. all over the west, both north and south.
Travel some of the old 'Route 66' and you will see HUNDREDS every day...

One way to travel is by water.
If you have ever taken a trip on a river very far, you will find THOUSANDS of old commercial businesses that couldn't compete with cheap oil after WW-II.
Those big old buildings are all over...

Every dried up little town that fell victim to improved highways after WW-II will have abandoned buildings... All of them available for a night or two...

Every city has a 'Old Warehouse' district, usually along river or canal, where you can 'Squat' for short periods of time.

The COOLEST place I ever saw was some guys had taken up residence in an old water tower at an abandoned military installation!
Two stories built inside the tank, all wood panel lined from the buildings the military left behind, great place to crash and SECURE since no one is stupid enough to try and climb a narrow, open 50' ladder to assault them!

Windows cut into it (amazing what you can do with a hack saw and some time!), wood floors, wood paneling, good ventilation, cool in the daytime, warm at night, GREAT VIEW of the surrounding hills, just plain COOL!

Finding those dispersed Cell Phone towers that are everywhere now is a place to 'Camp' if you don't mind a good dose of microwaves...
They always mow around the fenced compound, have a good driveway, and as long as you don't enter the fenced area, you are not going to get arrested, just told to move on...

Old oil fields, mining sights, ect. that have long since closed will be a source of raw materials and shelter. I found a few of those on my trips out and about...
You wouldn't believe what some mining and oil companies have left behind in the way of equipment and buildings...

Another tact is 'On Site Security'...
Lots of places will let you stay if you patrol the place, and not even the local 'Law' can run you out.
'Caretaker' is better than 'Homeless'!

One thing I learned when traveling quite a bit was...
I purchased a 'Ryder' rental truck.
Didn't have the 'Ryder' name down the side anymore, but it was still that yellow color...
I used it for a 'Toy Box', transporting motorcycle, tool box, scuba equipment, ect.
Installed an air conditioner and built a bunk, microwave and took off down the road...

I could park in ANY truck stop, convenience store parking lot, and when I was in a larger town, I parked on the RYDER LOT!
I was looking like a needle in a stack of needles!
Since Ryder trucks are usually 'House Hold Goods', and LOW BUDGET household goods (Since you are doing the work yourself, most people think there isn't anything of worth in there) no one paid me one minute of attention!

I actually camped in the beach side parking lot of a Daytona motel for over a week with NO ONE asking the first question...
I don't know if they though I was a workman (Security saw the tool box in the back and just nodded at me) or if they thought I was a guest on my way somewhere, but not the first person asked about what I was doing there!

Swam in the ocean, used the outdoor showers to clean up, had the built in ramp to get the tools/bike in and out easily, was a GREAT vacation during bike week with no hotel bills!
The hotel and local restaurants provided bathrooms, the sea wall showers provided hygiene showers,
And the bottled water and microwave provided small cooking and 'Wash Up' water.

Went all through the Fla. keys that year, came up the gulf side, went over to New Orleans, and NOT ONCE did anyone give me 2 seconds of interest...

Wish I'd kept that Ryder truck, great buy, great 'Toy Box', and pretty good for makeshift camping unit.


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## whisperingwinds (Oct 16, 2010)

You are soooo right. I really like you ideas.  Nomad hmmmmm

There is a lot of land in the west....its just you have to have a road nearby.

It helps


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Refugee, tenant and squatter ain't on my list of things to aspire to, but we need to learn about every option, every possibility!

Thanks for posting that!


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## Derek (Jan 24, 2011)

Lots of good ideas, Nomad isn't exactly MY cup of tea, but the constructive nomad is always welcomed at my Homestead for a night or two while passing through! Great ideas around getting property!


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## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

Good ideas.
Hope to never need them but I will file them away for future use.
Never know what is to come. May need them as points of suspicion for security.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

In a true end of the world situation is it really going to matter who was paying taxes on the land before you got there?
Land ownership will be who ever can defend the place at that time.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I just bought a Yamaha Motorcycle for cheap travel adventures. I like the idea of riding up the paved water run off areas. Jeep, Your Ryder truck is a very good idea, you should have kept it. 

I am also planning on a 2 week canoe trip just squatting in isolated areas as I go down river. There are lots of secluded areas along the water.:sssh:


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Thats why I bought this old camper and fixed it up..built it as a mobile bug out location on wheels..if we are still able to be allowed to drive, this should take me most anyplace I want to go..the camper and my 3/4 t 8' box with topper and camper should give e space for alot of necessities..if I can get gas..and not be a police magnet ...I can go from parking lots to dead end roads and rest..all depends on the catastrophe that happens as to what we can or cant do law wise..only bummer I know of right now about this set up is bringing my guns..I talked to a guy with an RV and he said a 12 ga pistol grip shotgun was the only weapon he was allowed to carry..I dont think that would stop me from carrying more than law says I can..I figure if things get bad enough that I have to live in my camper I will be in a authentic survival situation..then all bets are off..dont think I would allow a cop or anyone to take what I have without an all out fight..be throw down time then, winner take all


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Your rights*



azurevirus said:


> Thats why I bought this old camper and fixed it up..built it as a mobile bug out location on wheels..if we are still able to be allowed to drive, this should take me most anyplace I want to go..the camper and my 3/4 t 8' box with topper and camper should give e space for alot of necessities..if I can get gas..and not be a police magnet ...I can go from parking lots to dead end roads and rest..all depends on the catastrophe that happens as to what we can or cant do law wise..only bummer I know of right now about this set up is bringing my guns..I talked to a guy with an RV and he said a 12 ga pistol grip shotgun was the only weapon he was allowed to carry..I dont think that would stop me from carrying more than law says I can..I figure if things get bad enough that I have to live in my camper I will be in a authentic survival situation..then all bets are off..dont think I would allow a cop or anyone to take what I have without an all out fight..be throw down time then, winner take all


You can have any weapon you choose in your camper as long as you refuse to allow the police to search. Just say NO! Do not lie and do not answer probing questions. Ask for a search warrent. It is your fourth admendment right. Refuseing to answer questions beyond your name , date of birth and if driving, Your OL ,and Registration with proof of insurance.

If the officer has propable cause to believe you have commited a crime,( beyond a traffic violation or he has arrested you, then he can search your vehicle. This would not extend to your trailer without a warrent.


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## Derek (Jan 24, 2011)

I do agree with part of your argument, about at the end of the world it will not matter who paid taxes but, the people who paid taxes, live there and get to work there will defiantly have a jump on those who show up and use what they can find. If you own the property you can have your castle started with you in courtyard garden, weapons and possible water source figured out and stock piled!!!! 

Best Wishes

Derek


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

Derek said:


> I do agree with part of your argument, about at the end of the world it will not matter who paid taxes but, the people who paid taxes, live there and get to work there will defiantly have a jump on those who show up and use what they can find. If you own the property you can have your castle started with you in courtyard garden, weapons and possible water source figured out and stock piled!!!!
> 
> Best Wishes
> 
> Derek


That is all very true.
If they can keep what they have.
If a band of desperate animals show up and are willing to kill to get what they want the tax payer had better be able to defend what is his.
If they can't then all of their hard work will be to support someone that didn't prepare.
Kind of like we do now with government handouts.
One of my biggest concerns is roving bands of people taking everything they can.
Realistically what could 1 or 2 people do to defend themselves from 20 or 30 or more people.
Kind of like the old cowboy movies.
The band of Indians raid the homestead and kill everyone and take what they want.
It will be the same thing I fear.


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## frankd4 (Oct 22, 2010)

*cheap land*

I have bought land very cheap by buying tax liens, I bought the tax liens a an eighty acre track paid for three years taxes no lean holder on the property ask the court for title and got it, eighty acres for less than five grand.
All it takes is hours and hours of research on the internet looking for land with unpaid taxes and no lean holders best to look for three years of unpaid taxes.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

BillM said:


> You can have any weapon you choose in your camper as long as you refuse to allow the police to search. Just say NO! Do not lie and do not answer probing questions. Ask for a search warrent. It is your fourth admendment right. Refuseing to answer questions beyond your name , date of birth and if driving, Your OL ,and Registration with proof of insurance.
> 
> If the officer has propable cause to believe you have commited a crime,( beyond a traffic violation or he has arrested you, then he can search your vehicle. This would not extend to your trailer without a warrent.


 LOL,Bubba can come up with all the 'probabe cause 'he needs once hes peeved off. 
My favorite comedian,Lewis Grizzard told a joke about this.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

wished you hadn't said "Bubba"...."Bubba, he will bite youuuu". ROFL


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Dixie said:


> wished you hadn't said "Bubba"...."Bubba, he will bite youuuu". ROFL


 Well then,'get her done'!


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Domicile*



Meerkat said:


> LOL,Bubba can come up with all the 'probabe cause 'he needs once hes peeved off.
> My favorite comedian,Lewis Grizzard told a joke about this.


Your domicile is not subject to a search without a search warrent or sufficent probable cause.

Your camper is your domicile !

An officer is only allowed to search the area immediatlly around you and your person for weapons if you give him probablecause to feel threatened while he is conducting an investigation of a violation of the law.

Unless you give him permission to enter your domicile and conduct a search for items that might be contained in closed containers where small items , not visable to the naked eye may be contained therein, he can not search and no judge will give him a warrent to do so based on his gut feeling or your excersize of your forth and fifth admendment rights.

Just say 'no" to a search request and make sure your weapon is out of plain sight and your immediate reach.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We have an RV just in case we need to leave our home for whatever reason. Within the next 10 years, we plan to spend half our time on the road in the RV. We have no intentions of giving up our house & land though.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

I have land and a house that I rent out. If the right person were to ask I would allow them to grow crops and raise cattle on the land and pay their rent in barter. I have done it before and would do it again. trade is great when you can't do it easily yourself. 
maybe I should ask if there would be any takers.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

back when I was much younger, my Bug out plan was a sailboat. That has since changed but for a single person it seemed like a good idea at the time.


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*cops dont NEED warrants to search vehicles on public roads*

The Supremes have held that, due to the "exigsent (spelling?) circumstances of bad guys being able to just drive away, the cops are allowed to search for dope, weapons, etc, in "good faith". without a warrent. they can also just do a phone or radio callin and a warrant WILL be granted in mere minutes, too. Don't kid yourself, people, we are just as bad off as germany was in the early days of Hitler


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*Rawles is a fool.*

you can rent a mining claim of 20 acres on BLM property for $100 per year, and have a camping permit for $15 per year, I believe it is. If it's public land, as in parks, you can squat there forever, if you move around every few days. No you do NOT need to stay in one place. I've lived in a van for months at a time, several times in my life. Doing so saves you rent, utiliities and commuting time and expenses, potentially 10-15k per year?! if the land is owned by utility, mining, lumber, paper companies, often nobody will give you any trouble for months on end, even if you DON'T hide/move there. It's not CRIMINAL trespassing until somebody TELLS you to leave, and you refuse to do so, you know. A non cop has no right to demand your ID, did you know that? So leave for a few days, return when you feel like it.


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## frankd4 (Oct 22, 2010)

*Tax Leans cheap land*

Tax leans = chep land.


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*I beg to differ*

u have to KEEP paying those taxes, and now Big Brother KNOWS where to find you, as he knew where to find Randy Weaver.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*My plan*

My plan is to stay put at home in my rural setting.

As for land, who knows where a good place to start farming and living off the grid will be.

What looks good now may be hostle after TSHTF.

I have enough gold and silver, to purchase land sutable to the needs of my famiely after things fall apart.

There will be plenty of cheap land after 60 to 75 % of the population dies off in the first nine months.

You may be able to just squat and homested !


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

I would be squeamish about my well-being being dependent on the death of so many others. Plan A and Plan B need to be more directed at a larger number of people being able to do well.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I would be willing to rent out part of my homestead to a prepper, but I am leary of how to find someone that I can trust. If things do degenerate to a life or death situation, you gotta have someone you can trust.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I'm not*



boomer said:


> I would be squeamish about my well-being being dependent on the death of so many others. Plan A and Plan B need to be more directed at a larger number of people being able to do well.


I am not wishing harm on anyone.

I hope we are all wrong and our predictions of TEOTWAWKI are found to be false.

But if they are right, we will see a dramatic decrease in the population.

The amount of land and equipment will not change.

The law of supply and demand will outlast any form of goverment.

If TSHTF, there will be few people left and a lot of land for sale or the taking.


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## Wallrat (Oct 28, 2011)

As Lickit mentioned, a mining claim is a great option. I have a claim in Idaho that is my refuge. Plus it has a mine shaft nearby...a great storage place. They cost either $165 per year, or you can file a form stating you did 'assay" or improvement work on it. Then it's free for that year. One benefit is that you don't have to move after 14 days camping. Legally, as long as you are working your claim, you can stay (no matter what the Forest Circus tells you). Plus, it a SHTF situation you can dig up gold to extend your finances. There are a lot of things to know about buying and owning a claim, so don't jump onto eBay and buy one. Due diligence pays off.


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## stand (Nov 15, 2011)

*Nomadic life is the cheapest, actually.*

No rent or utilities, no long commute (use a bicycle) no propery taxes, no fire insurance, no mortgage payment! Also, no need of a nice car or the expenses of such with travel, no need of high $ insurance or interest on the loan to buy such a vehicle. I pay less than 2k for mini-vans, always,and can always find a small pull trailer (if I want/need one) for less than 3k. I don't move a lot, just twice a year, mostly, to avoid the heat and cold, and go where the work is. How are the cops going to know you are without a home, actually? I'm on vacation, bud.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Hello I ended up with a married daughter (nearby)
Married son (far away)
2 draft horses
Variable amounts of chickens
1 big Pyrenees dog
And 1 big trailer ( WWII BOMB WAGON)
Unfortunately I don't own a tractor.(YET)
So I took my last dollar to the Amish wood cutter.(all ceder)
Built my house on wheels,and set off on a whirl wind world wide tour.
I went 11 miles.( heavy sigh mixed with laughter)
I now live on 700 acres.I put the cows back in the fence daily!
I saddle my Percheron quietly about at odd hours.
I call him when lightning burns out the well.
I use a rider mower (for someone else) 6 hours 1 day a week for $50 cash
I have copd ( lung damage) and he pays for water and electric (breathing treatments).
The mowing job is short term and I have discovered I like being able to buy pants and boots faster than they wear out.
So I guess my point is when life puts a cliff in front of you "gird up thy loins about thee" and jump HARD.
Anybody need a caretaker?
I like it here but he won't pay gas to mow the field or fence material to keep the cows in,or $35.00 for a tractor carburetor kit.
$10 for an air compresser belt
5 tractors here and none of them run $100 would fix any one
I have all my wagon building tools.
I would like to see a grocery store every other week or so and will not drive a car.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

One option if you have to bug out and you don't own land is to scout out *foreclosed* properties that fit what you're looking for. Now would be a good time to check realtor.com for properties you could bug out to. You could look up five properties that have what you're looking for. If you have the time you could check them out in person. Check them out every month. Cross off the ones that are sold and find new ones. *Foreclosed* is the key because it's currently owned by a bank and not an individual. You wouldn't be squatting on a piece of property that the legal owner can return to.

Obviously, squatting on a piece of property isn't the ideal bug-out situation but there will be a lot of people bugging out of dangerous places with no better place to go. It would be better to go to some cottage on a lake in the middle of nowhere than live in your car in the middle of nowhere.


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