# Indoor generator?



## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

I asked this question on another thread yesterday but it wasn't the appropriate one so I'll ask here: is it ever ok or at least worth the risk to have one's generator indoors? When the SHTF, the wife and I might have to hunker down in our basement and if the generator is in the garage or outside it might get stolen or disabled, not to mention how far the cords would have to stretch...is carbon monoxide my only fear if it's indoors? Would CM detectors be enough? Would any particular fuel be safer than the others?
DB


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

An operating generator under the same roof that you are living in would be a very bad idea. I used to keep my generator inside, but it was in a divorced seperate building with the exhaust piped outside.

You might what to concider buying a small shed and then bolting the generator to the shed floor and then adding a exhust pipe out the top of the building. Becareful to insulate the pipe where it touches flamable material.

Carbon Monoxide is called the silent killer for a good reason. A family a 5 near me, died inside of there home because of carbon monoxide. IT's nothing to screw with.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I agree with Tweto CO is nothing to fool with. At least one or two families a year die because of this!! (in my area I mean) My daughter had the CO detector go off on her this winter and she bundled everyone up and took them to my mothers while she called our local fire department to come check. They found it was the CO detector it self was bad but at least it they are still alive. We replaced them all with a better model and no more problem but better alive and woke up in the middle of the night. But my daughters furnace fan broke a couple times and lucky for them they heard it or that could have caused CO back up too. You just never know. our upstairs is unheated so I often have one window cracked almost all winter for fresh air.. but then.. I have hot flashes and enjoy the cold!
And if you had a flat roof somewhere on your house maybe put it up on the top instead of inside may be better.. but if you are hunkered down and hiding you wouldn't want one running anyhoo. Just a thought there.

And for all the folks who live in hurricane alley.. think up for the gennys too. many hospitals had theirs on ground level and when the storm surge rolled through it drown them.. personally in a hospital they have huge flat roofs most times and putting their emergency generators up top makes more sense in flood prone areas..


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## Ration-AL (Apr 18, 2012)

you're best bet here it to switch to solar if at all feasible for you, google indoor generators, there are various methods, but solar is the best as it stands....

i also agree with others about the co2 issue, if you must i would built a outbuilding attached to the back of your house with vents top and bottom and a emission port, then just drill a mains line through an exterior wall and feed the lines through there, just make sure it's all sealed up tightly, you could also sound proof the little extension or outbuilding to be a little more incognito, whatever you do , do not run the genny indoors, that is not a viable option, even just running it for short periods of time is dangerous.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

A member here described his use of a generator inside. What they did was they placed the generator inside their laundry-room and moved their dryer out of the area. Then they used the ducting for the dryer-vent to vent-out the exhaust from the generator.

I don't remember how they sealed the exhaust-port of the generator to a secondary flex-pipe, but, they had it sealed enough that there was no problems inside their house from CO (Carbon Monoxide) which is a very dangerous gas.


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## TopTop (Nov 11, 2011)

I don't see a problem with the genny being inside but it must be vented. Both exhaust & fresh air intake & it needs cooling to prevent overheating. The noise would get unbearable after a while too. Cover those issues along with CO detection and you should be good. About venting any exhaust, be careful about it drafting back into the building. The exhaust stack should extend above roof level just like a chimney. 

Yes like the others said, gas fumes are heavier than air and that is a big concern. If they get to your sump pump you will hear a big kaboom. The room where you keep anything gas related should be built to force fumes outside, not allow them to accumulate in the basement or anywhere inside. For ideas check out the way propane tanks are handled on a boat and how the fuel tanks are vented over the side to prevent fumes from falling into the bilge.

I can not remember where I saw it, but the story/pics showed an old antique diesel about four or five hp running a backup genny. It was in the basement, the exhaust was routed through two underground barrels then a tall stack in the yard. They said it was nearly inaudible from ten feet away.


I wanted to add, a while back we had a big storm that knocked out power on a Sunday morning at church. We set up a portable genny right outside the basement door & blocked the door open a few inches to run power cords inside for lighting. In just a few minutes the exhaust would cause your eyes to water anywhere in the basement or main auditorium. The wind was pushing the exhaust back into the building & this was just a little 5,000 watt genny. The bldg is fairly large, three stories & the auditorium seats about 600 plus the choir loft.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

We used to have an indoor generator at work. It was natural gas, and vented to the outside. Worked most of the time, until the exhaust pipe broke while it was running. Not a good scenario. Better to leave the genset outside the building, especially if you're running gasoline!


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

In a un attached garage would be ok, I'd never have one in a garage what be connected ta the house er anywhere in the house. CO detectors fail, an ya might not wake up. Also ifin it be a gas unit, remember there can be fumes an all it take be one spark.

Feller I knew dug down along his basement an put in a a small room with a extremly well sealed door an vented everthin out. Worked out perty well, but he had ta put in a fan ta help keep the heat level down.

Just my coppers worth.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Maybe it was Yankee Prepper on Youtube has a separate shed, but his exhaust goes underground through some type muffling devices and the stack comes up above head level and you can't hear it from about 10 yards away.


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## PFCHAWK (Jun 16, 2012)

I have been doing research on generators and fuel sources. So far it looks like propane doesn't have a shelf life. So my question is why not have a 500 gallon tank hooked up to a generator. If used conserving it, it should last a while. Any body have any input on propane generators????


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Pretty much any generator that runs on gasoline can be made to run on Nat Gas and Propane. Those whole house gen sets you see at HD and Lowes are set up already set up to run on LPG or NG. You can switch between LPG and NG but there is a need for a solenoid (I believe) that changes the amount of one of the gases allowed in. IOWs, you can't have a NG setup and swap to LPG without a little deal that changes the orifice opening or something like that. Not a big deal to get that item, either. One of them has less BTUs than the other. I've got a Briggs engine that could run on either one (if I actually got around to hooking it up to something one day). I'm lazy.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

There are people doing that where i'm at. There are a few around here that have a good sized unit that is hooked up to the 500 gal tank. Propane doesn't go bad, so they can set for a year and start right up. I have two that are on propane, one is in the shop which is a separate building from the house and exhaust is piped outside. It is not that noisy but being in the shop with it running for a while the valve and bearing noise gets to ya after a while. In fact I can't hear the engine running. It's all mechanical noise. The other generator is a smaller unit that i'm going to mount on my truck. It runs on propane also so the two will use the same fuel tank. I have a lot of equipment that runs on propane and I think it's a great fuel. Propane burns cleaner so the oil stays clean for a long time. The engine will last longer.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

tenOC said:


> Pretty much any generator that runs on gasoline can be made to run on Nat Gas and Propane. Those whole house gen sets you see at HD and Lowes are set up already set up to run on LPG or NG. You can switch between LPG and NG but there is a need for a solenoid (I believe) that changes the amount of one of the gases allowed in. IOWs, you can't have a NG setup and swap to LPG without a little deal that changes the orifice opening or something like that. Not a big deal to get that item, either. One of them has less BTUs than the other. I've got a Briggs engine that could run on either one (if I actually got around to hooking it up to something one day). I'm lazy.


Natural gas has less BTU output when burned compared to propane and gasoline. When operating on natural gas you won't quite get the full output of the generator. So if your looking at getting one to convert to natural gas go a size bigger. Small engines are easy to convert. I make the adapters for mine that goes in between the air cleaner and carb. This allows you to be able to run either gasoline, propane or natural gas.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

We have a propane generator but it's our understanding that they can't be used indoors either...

Our underground shelter had a bicycle generator, worked for lights and getting water from the well to the shelter by charging the batteries, don't know what you want to power up but might want to look into one of those...

PS: Came across this link about Bicycle Power after I posted, thought you might get some good into from it:''
http://www.mastersconnection.com/index.php/classifieds/10-health/2625-bicycle-generator-power


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

db2469 said:


> ... is it ever ok or at least worth the risk to have one's generator indoors? ...Would CM detectors be enough?...
> DB


You are will to betting your life on a CM battery...


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## AlaskaSrChief (Oct 27, 2010)

db2469 said:


> I asked this question on another thread yesterday but it wasn't the appropriate one so I'll ask here: is it ever ok or at least worth the risk to have one's generator indoors? When the SHTF, the wife and I might have to hunker down in our basement and if the generator is in the garage or outside it might get stolen or disabled, not to mention how far the cords would have to stretch...is carbon monoxide my only fear if it's indoors? Would CM detectors be enough? Would any particular fuel be safer than the others?
> DB


I have an old 2KW generator that I thought about hooking up to an old stationary recumbent bike to see how well it would work. A little Gilligan's Island like, but I would think it should be at least sufficient to charge batteries on a 12 volt system.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

The problem with a generator after it hits the fan is just the noise. It will be so quiet at that time that having a generator will give you away that you have food and other supplies too.


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## Ration-AL (Apr 18, 2012)

BillS said:


> The problem with a generator after it hits the fan is just the noise. It will be so quiet at that time that having a generator will give you away that you have food and other supplies too.


right and do you really need a generator? i mean do you plan on sitting on your couch watching a taped Yankees game after the balloon goes up? personally i have nothing which requires more electricity than what a small solar charger can provide and if you need more then that a bicycle setup would be awesome, but i see generators as basically useless and inherently dangerous for the reasons mentioned here, CO2,noise, ect....

also a waste of fuel imo, i would be saving the petrol for the truck and if your using lpg or the like, just cut out the middle man and run the tank straight to a heater and cooking unit, these are much quieter and can be used indoors without the fear of dying if you purchase the right units....

in a true SHTF scenario i personally give a big thumbs down to genny's , that said, in the much more common case of foul weather and short term natural disasters a genny is a great thing to have and yes, i do have one, but i only use it in the winter to keep the fridge cool and to run my tv, the rest of the house is ran on propane, heating and cooking at least, a few candles make things nice as well, but when SHTF goes down i maybe trading my genny away for either fuel,food,guns or what have you, i really just don't see myself needing a genny when the apocalypse is happening outside...


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I converted and older Onan motohome generator to run on Natural Gas/Propane (milled heads, advanced timing) and built a dedicated shed for it outside of the laundry room. The slab is 6" thick concrete and the walls are cinder blocks. Baffles are used to dampen noise and still give good airflow (but MAN... those Vacu-Flo Onans can move some air!!). I buried an old semi-truck muffler underground and run the exhaust through it (hey, it was free!). The nearest house to me is several hundred yards away and you can't hear it running.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

LincTex said:


> I converted and older Onan motohome generator to run on Natural Gas/Propane (milled heads, advanced timing) and built a dedicated shed for it outside of the laundry room. The slab is 6" thick concrete and the walls are cinder blocks. Baffles are used to dampen noise and still give good airflow (but MAN... those Vacu-Flo Onans can move some air!!). I buried an old semi-truck muffler underground and run the exhaust through it (hey, it was free!). The nearest house to me is several hundred yards away and you can't hear it running.


I'm impressed...good job!
DB


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

The only thing about powering an AC generator with a bicycle is it requires a steady 3600 RPM to get 60 cycles or 60 Hz. For lights this is not as important but for running anything electronic if you're not in that 50 to 60Hz window it can damage electronic devices. Anyway you will eventually run out of fuel, and in the case of an EMP most of these newer generators have electronic voltage regulators that could be damaged. I've noticed that most of the big diesels have electronic fuel injection too. Those would be useless in an EMP. BTW, you really don't have to go to milling heads on small engines to run propane. Most all of my equipment is powered by propane including the vehicles. We've done some extensive testing with small engines and you really don't gain much in reality.


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## TopTop (Nov 11, 2011)

Well_Driller said:


> Small engines are easy to convert. I make the adapters for mine that goes in between the air cleaner and carb. This allows you to be able to run either gasoline, propane or natural gas.


Could you post some details or a link. It would be nice to have dual fuel capability for my backup genny.

BTW, the longest we have had power down was for a week after a summer storm. I ran the genny about 4-5 hours each morning then again about 2-3 hours in the evening. That was sufficient to make ice, charge batteries, handle meals, laundry, showers, etc. We filled a couple 5 gallon water jugs with drinking water. The job site type with the spigot on the bottom. Set it by the sink & you have running water for making tea, brushing teeth, washing hands, etc. The bath tub was filled with water for flushing. We worked out of a big cooler during the day for milk, lunch, etc, to avoid opening the fridge or freezer. And of course we could start the genny anytime if needed. Worked well for us & we didn't burn a lot of fuel or listen to the noise all of the time.

I guess I'm in the minority about an indoor genny. I am used to inboard sport fishing boats, where everything is located in the "basement" (bilge actually) so I guess I instinctively know the problems & solutions. Do not put a gas engine in the basement or where fumes can leak into the basement of your house. The fumes are heavier than air & will sink to the lowest level. Once they get under your house they can not get out. Well at least not until you introduce a spark from a flashlight or candle. Then they will leave, taking your house with them. Anything running on gasoline or propane should be above ground, well ventilated & the fumes should drain away from the house. I think a diesel genny could be properly installed in a basement but, as always, the devil is in the details. Read up on installing a genny in a boat & you will learn about proper venting, fuel handling, explosion proof switches, etc.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Well_Driller said:


> BTW, you really don't have to go to milling heads on small engines to run propane. Most all of my equipment is powered by propane including the vehicles. We've done some extensive testing with small engines and you really don't gain much in reality.


The fuel burn rate goes down DRAMATICALLY if you raise the compression when using natural gas, and advance the timing.

A 5KW gen pulling a full, hard load with 18 degrees BTDC of timing and 6:1 compression will burn close to 90 (or so) CFH of natural gas. If you raise the compression two points higher and advance the timing, it'll pull the same 5KW load at only 60 CFH. That is a huge fuel savings.

I don't know the numbers for propane.... but anytime you can make an engine do the same work on LESS fuel, why wouldn't you? Especially if fuel is scarce.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

TopTop said:


> Could you post some details or a link. It would be nice to have dual fuel capability for my backup genny.


I currently don't have any info or drawings on my website. I normally custom make the adapters to fit the engine it goes on, and I do the machining from experience. Most of that work comes from the locals. The adapters are simple, it's basically another venturi that bolts in between the carb and air cleaner, I make the venturi size base on the carbs. I normally use a two regulator setup with propane. There is the primary regulator that goes on the tank to reduce tank pressure down to 13 inches water column, and then there's the engine demand regulator that controls the flow of gas to the engine based on the vacuum it senses from the engine.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

LincTex said:


> The fuel burn rate goes down DRAMATICALLY if you raise the compression when using natural gas, and advance the timing.
> 
> A 5KW gen pulling a full, hard load with 18 degrees BTDC of timing and 6:1 compression will burn close to 90 (or so) CFH of natural gas. If you raise the compression two points higher and advance the timing, it'll pull the same 5KW load at only 60 CFH. That is a huge fuel savings.
> 
> I don't know the numbers for propane.... but anytime you can make an engine do the same work on LESS fuel, why wouldn't you? Especially if fuel is scarce.


Propane burns a little slower than gasoline, it's a high octane fuel. Timing advance definitely improves the performance. Natural gas burns slower yet and a higher compression ratio would be beneficial with natural gas. If you really want to make a huge improvement then you can build the engine for the fuel you want to run. Higher compression ratios, a custom camshaft, and timing advance will make a noticeable difference. I know with larger engines a 9:1 compression ratio for propane makes a difference and of course they have a timing curve setup, where small engines just have a set timing that doesn't change with speed.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

If they run fork trucks and floor buffers on propane inside buildings because it burns cleaner, why wouldn't it safely work for a gen set?


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

tenOC said:


> If they run fork trucks and floor buffers on propane inside buildings because it burns cleaner, why wouldn't it safely work for a gen set?


Yes it does burn much cleaner, and in a perfect world the by-product is mostly carbon dioxide, but it can't be exactly perfect so you can still get carbon monoxide production though with a properly tuned engine on propane, it's usually way less than gasoline. Those are usually large buildings and there's enough ventilation that it's not a problem. If you you absolutely had to have it inside then it would be best to build a sealed room, with a negative ventilation system. That means the fans would be pulling air out of the room creating a negative pressure that would pull air into the room through the fresh air vents. For the short term, generators are good, but for the long term, you should be thinking about how to do without.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

For the demand regulator, most use a Garretson KN style.


Well_Driller said:


> There is the primary regulator that goes on the tank to reduce tank pressure down to 13 inches water column, and then there's the engine demand regulator that controls the flow of gas to the engine based on the vacuum it senses from the engine.


Correct - - and propane can't be hauled in any 5-gallon jerry can. Once it is empty, you need specialized equipment to do a refill.


Well_Driller said:


> For the short term, generators are good, but for the long term, you should be thinking about how to do without.


Mine is set up for Natural Gas because we lose power once every 6 months or so. The gas never goes off.... but I am not saying it will always be that way!! Perhaps at some point I can make it work with woodgas.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

tenOC said:


> If they run fork trucks and floor buffers on propane inside buildings because it burns cleaner, why wouldn't it safely work for a gen set?


If the propane leaks into an enclosed structure, you have the potential to blow it and everything into it into little pieces. I'm not willing to take that chance, but that's just me.

Interesting link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_explosion_12/27/83


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## MrDean (Jun 29, 2012)

Even if it burns cleaner, the products of combustion are Carbon Dioxide, CO2 and Carbon Monoxide, CO, a poision BTW, in addition to other bad things. The Gen Set uses the Oxygen in the room for its combustion just like you do in addition to the heat generated. 

Under no circumstances do you want to run a Gen Set in an enclosed space, unless you want to commit suiside that is.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Just as an FYI for those wanting to run a larger 120 volt load (air compressor, well pump, etc.) from a generator.... Most generators rated at "5000 watts" only put out 2500 at 120 volts.

Read this to see how to rewire it to get the 5000 watts at 120 volts instead of only on 240 volts:
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/your-6000-watt-gen-only-puts-out-3000-watts-11918/


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

Anyone try something similar? I might bite the bullet just so I wouldn't deal with the hassle of setting up my own. Plus I live in a really really small townhouse. 
http://www.rei.com/product/842690/goal-zero-yeti-1250-solar-generator-kit?stop_mobi=yes


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

tac803 said:


> If the propane leaks into an enclosed structure, you have the potential to blow it and everything into it into little pieces. I'm not willing to take that chance, but that's just me.
> 
> Interesting link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane_explosion_12/27/83


Good point. Propane and Nat Gas water heaters, fireplaces, wall heaters, stoves/ovens, dryers always have the stored supply source outside and a usually a dedicated exhaust system.

When I was in Fla, a muffler shop exploded when the manager turned on the air compressors first thing in the morning. The shop was filled with gas overnight. One guy who was always late to work was the only one who wasn't killed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

ZangLussuria said:


> Anyone try something similar? I might bite the bullet just so I wouldn't deal with the hassle of setting up my own. Plus I live in a really really small townhouse.
> http://www.rei.com/product/842690/goal-zero-yeti-1250-solar-generator-kit?stop_mobi=yes


Bad idea... very little useable power for an extremely high price.

This has been hashed many times before... you can build your own better system for about 1/4 - 1/2 that price


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Never mind. got it.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

tenOC said:


> Good point. Propane and Nat Gas water heaters, fireplaces, wall heaters, stoves/ovens, dryers always have the stored supply source outside and a usually a dedicated exhaust system.


That may be true but any gas appliance in the house and/or piping coming into the house has the potential to develop a leak. Having the proper safety devices in places helps to minimize this. I think I seen a study once that claimed something like 90% of residential fires are caused by electrical problems.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Well_Driller said:


> I think I seen a study once that claimed something like 90% of residential fires are caused by electrical problems.


I don't doubt that. I have seen LOT of bad wiring jobs in my life, many times where the wire meets the outlet (heat damage). A bad connection here just makes a lot of heat and will not trip the breaker or blow the fuse.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

I replaced a jet pump with a new submersible pump for a guy which required installing a new 240v breaker. When I took the cover off the breaker box I seen someone had wired in the hot water heater with 12-2 wire and if that wasn't bad enough it was connected to a 60 amp circuit breaker. The hot water heater should've had a 10-2 supply wire with a 30amp breaker.


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## hdb90 (May 1, 2012)

There's no way I'd take the chance of placing a generator anywhere near the inside of my home. During the winter outages we've set it outside our sunroom. When the power was off this summer for a week we didn't want it set up where we had the fumes or the noise coming through the open windows. We decided to build a small building to house it at the opposite end of the house. When we discussed it we realized the money we spent in fuel wasn't worth what we save in food. We could have canned the meat in the freezer and that would have left the items in the fridge.
We have talked for a couple of years now of building a summer kitchen to do our canning in. We're kicking the idea around of buying an lp/ng fridge to have for emergencies. Then if need be we could use a small generator if we felt the need to run our tv or lights.(which we both can do without). This isn't set in stone and would love to hear any suggestions.


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

LincTex said:


> Bad idea... very little useable power for an extremely high price.
> 
> This has been hashed many times before... you can build your own better system for about 1/4 - 1/2 that price


Problem is, where I live, people aren't too familiar with solar setups and the equipment isn't readily available. It's easier to ship a whole setup rather than every little bit needed especially if something comes up down the road.

Will still do more research. Especially when I move into the townhouse.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

ZangLussuria said:


> people aren't too familiar with solar setups ... It's easier to ship a whole setup.


"ignorance is no excuse"

"a fool and his money are soon parting"


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

That's why I said in my previous post that I'll be doing more research especially since this will be my first venture into a large scale solar setup.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

For those worried about long term fuel supply, perhaps they should consider a more expensive diesel generator. Grow some sunflowers and you'll be in diesel heaven (lots of sunflowers though).


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> Grow some sunflowers and you'll be in diesel heaven (lots of sunflowers though).


Lots of other oil crops, too.


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