# Starting Rabbits



## Dakine

I got approval from my landlord to setup a rabbitry. It's something I've been wanting to do for awhile now but have been putting off with so many other projects going on.

I've been reading Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits by Rob Bennett and it seems a very informative book.

I've decided on New Zealand Whites and I'll house them in wire cages. I have a metal shelving rack that is 6 feet long and I'm planning to use that as a frame to suspend the cages from, and I'll make some kind of plywood frame that will sit inside of. The plywood housing will let me give them shelter from rain and wind and while we dont get a lot rainy wind and virtually no freezes, I can put a tarp in front of it and rig a simple light bulb for some extra heat if needed.

I was at the county feed supply a while back last summer looking at chickens (yet another project) and I noticed that they had gatorade bottles they'd frozen overnight into ice bottles for the rabbits to lay against. Since summer heat is going to be far more prevalent that seems like something I'll probably do for my rabbits too, although summer here is pretty tame compared to elsewhere, we have an annual avg temp of 72 degrees. Its rough... believe me! 

Anyway, now that I've got the go-ahead I'm going to set that up right away. I'm still shopping but so far one of the cage options that looks like a reasonable start is 24x24x16 $39 with free shipping. http://astore.amazon.com/rabbempi-20/detail/B000FK27X8

I have seen lots of them advertised locally in craigslist but none that were pedigreed so I'm thinking I'll find and buy from an ARBA approved breeder and have some documented purebreds sent in.

County feed has all the pellets and hay and anything else of that nature I need, and I've already got a couple extra ant proof storage bins for pet feed that I'm not using for the critters I've already got.

I've got a wire cage already, so really if I just use this one plus buy one for housing 2 does, and another to split the doe off into when she is kindling, seems like for now I could get by with just 3 or 4 cages.

It should come together pretty easily? Am I missing anything big?


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## Grimm

A tip about keeping them cool in the summer... Get a few bricks and lay them in the cage. The rabbits will lay on them as they are cooler than wood and will not get them wet like the bottles. When I had rabbits I found that using the bricks under their bowls forced the buns to walk on them and their nails would be filed down a bit every time. I have also done this when I had fancy rats as pets...

Another cheap cooling pad for buns is ceramic tiles. Just a dollar or so at the hardware store and you can hose them off when you clean the cages. Wood will absorb the water and urine. Yuck!

Good luck.


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## valannb22

Didn't see nestboxes on the list.


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## Grimm

valannb22 said:


> Didn't see nestboxes on the list.


They are easy to make with some scrap wood I know Dak has laying around.


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## Dakine

Grimm said:


> A tip about keeping them cool in the summer... Get a few bricks and lay them in the cage. The rabbits will lay on them as they are cooler than wood and will not get them wet like the bottles. When I had rabbits I found that using the bricks under their bowls forced the buns to walk on them and their nails would be filed down a bit every time. I have also done this when I had fancy rats as pets...
> 
> Another cheap cooling pad for buns is ceramic tiles. Just a dollar or so at the hardware store and you can hose them off when you clean the cages. Wood will absorb the water and urine. Yuck!
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks! I'll be using all wire cages, but I like the idea of giving them a ceramic tile too, so that's something to look at as well. When I first started thinking about this I was planning wooden cages but then everything I've read about it convinced me that is absolutely not the way to go.

I hadn't thought about the toenails being worn down by bricks, that's another tip for me to look into 

I also have to reconsider where I was going to put them. Now I think it's going to be under a tree I have, there's enough clearance to make a sizeable hutch shed so i think it will work out okay, and it's shady in the summer so that helps too. just need to figure out what I'm going to do about leveling that area, and it's also a run-off for draining water when it rains.

hmmm lots to ponder lol


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## Dakine

valannb22 said:


> Didn't see nestboxes on the list.





Grimm said:


> They are easy to make with some scrap wood I know Dak has laying around.


Thank you both! nice catch


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## Grimm

Dakine said:


> Thank you both! nice catch


The PDF is some basic plans for the nesting boxes.

FYI buns like to hang out on top of their boxes as much as in them.


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## Dakine

Grimm said:


> The PDF is some basic plans for the nesting boxes.
> 
> FYI buns like to hang out on top of their boxes as much as in them.


I don't see them getting to go all snoopy-style on their planned new home, but I'm trying to figure out a small play yard for them that will let them be safe from predators and give them more to do than just chillin in a cage.


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## Grimm

Dakine said:


> I don't see them getting to go all snoopy-style on their planned new home, but I'm trying to figure out a small play yard for them that will let them be safe from predators and give them more to do than just chillin in a cage.












This should work for buns.


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## Grimm

My does did this even when they didn't have babies. A few of my bucks enjoyed this too.


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## Dakine

very interesting! 

That's similar to the current vision for their play yard, however it will require some considerable work making the yard itself level. I'm not sure how far down that rabbit hole I want to go while living in a rental. please excuse me for being punny!  I crack myself up!


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## Grimm

Dakine said:


> very interesting!
> 
> That's similar to the current vision for their play yard, however it will require some considerable work making the yard itself level. I'm not sure how far down that rabbit hole I want to go while living in a rental. please excuse me for being punny!  I crack myself up!


The run I showed actually folds up for storage. A feature I like.


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## valannb22

Be careful about letting them out in the grass/dirt. They can pick up parasites, and if there are wild rabbits in your space they can spread disease to your herd.


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## Grimm

valannb22 said:


> Be careful about letting them out in the grass/dirt. They can pick up parasites, and if there are wild rabbits in your space they can spread disease to your herd.


When I had my buns I never used a run for them but allowed them to free range the yard. D.E. helped with fleas from the yard.

My buns were from wild stock so I wasn't worried about that as they went to the vet. They were cheaper at the time than buying domestic buns. I just had to catch them off the farm and bring them home.


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## valannb22

Have you ever done domestic rabbits? I am curious as to how they stack up against each other as far as meat production and feed conversion.


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## Grimm

valannb22 said:


> Have you ever done domestic rabbits? I am curious as to how they stack up against each other as far as meat production and feed conversion.


Yes. I had some domestic buns before the wild ones. As for the meat the domestics had more but they seemed more delicate than the wild buns. I had more than a few bucks break their backs while free ranging the yard. They were fine and it didn't seem to bother them as far as personality goes.

The wild buns stayed a bit more wild but did allow to be picked up and cared for. Most I caught as babies when they would come out during feeding time at the farm. The wild buns at the farm got use to the idea that the goats and sheep got feed by people so they wanted the free meals too. They even figured out how to get in the chicken tractor and tip over the feeders.


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## Dakine

Uber money sink! but when I'm up and running on rabbit prduction, should there be problems with the system as a whole, I'm good! 

Got Protein?


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## *Andi

On aside note ... Just from my farm ... Any time I gave the bunnies "Ground time", I had warble problem.

Just a thought and something to keep in mind. 

Best of luck with your rabbits.


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## Dakine

it will be Nov or Dec before this pair of rabbits has a litter that can actually be harvested for meat. 

that's ok tho, start small and work up!

So far so good! and I'm building a hardened enclosure.... if I was a rabbit, I'd be all "*** YEAH! hook a bunny up, this is my new house!" LOL! it's an outer enclosure to keep the possums, *****, and yotes out. it's coming along nicely too!


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## *Andi

Look forward to the next update ...


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## Grimm

I wanna see pictures of the buns!


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## Dakine

Grimm said:


> I wanna see pictures of the buns!


I don't do the underwear modeling anymore. the union restrictions were too oppresive!


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## Dakine

Rabbits! Copper Satins 

And they are very chill, totally awesome rabbits


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## Grimm

Dakine said:


> Rabbits! Copper Satins
> 
> And they are very chill, totally awesome rabbits


I had one as a kid. She was a sweet rabbit. Her name was Cinnamon.


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## Dakine

the photo there is a daytime only thing. This is rabbit friendly while I'm in the yard, or the mutt is on patrol keeping coyotes and possums and ***** out of the yard. Her and the rabbits were instant buddies which is really great for me LOL!

the bricks were going to be a feeble set of posts to set the rabbit bunker on, but I've scrapped that idea and come up with one that works a little better for me I think.

at night, the cages are inside the bunker and they are hardened against predators! I'm thinking about making up little jackets with pic rails attached so I can declare them tactical! 

anyway... that's my bunnies


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## Dakine

I was surprised by how fearless they are of the mutt! She's buddies with my cat and they curl up together all the time, so I wasn't really worried about her being aggressive to them.

Anyway, there was ZERO instinct from the buns to worry about the dog, they were totally chill even with her sniffing up their butts from the bottom of the cages LOL!

I see this as a bad thing tho, because if I somehow allow a predator into their area, they will not know to take shelter, if there even is a place they can retreat to 

Anyway...


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## LincTex

Grimm said:


> I had more than a few bucks break their backs while free ranging the yard.


That one stumped me. :scratch

I had to search it - - WEIRD. :nuts:


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## GunRackJack

I found that buying galvanized wire mesh (1" squared for sides and either 1/2" squared or 1/2"x1" for the bottom) to make my own was cheaper. I had to buy j-clips ($5 for 500 at feed store) and a special tool ($5) to clamp the clips closed. (Say that five times fast!  )


Dak, make sure their cages have a baby guard. That is, that the bottom 3" of the cage don't have openings larger than 3/4". I breed New Zealand rabbits. They're known for being relatively big, but I've had kits as old a 7 days fall out of a 1" square hole. Fortunately I've never lost one! Once I clamped the 1/2"x1" mesh up the first 3" of their cages I never had any escape. 

I clip my breeders' nails with cat claw clippers once a month, but love the idea of giving them a brick or tile so they can do it themselves!


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## GunRackJack

I made their nesting boxes out of scrap plywood I had lying around because I was afraid that the metal ones would get too hot in the Texas heat. I'd thought about putting wire mesh for the flooring of the nesting box, but worried that if mama moved the box then little feet would get pinched. So it has a wooden floor. NZ's tend to have a 31-32 day gestation period, so I just put it in on the 30th night. By then nesting instincts have kicked in and my does won't use it to potty in, so the boxes don't really get dirty. 

A word of friendly advice, if you have two does I've found that it's best to breed them both on the same day, as opposed to staggering them. That way if mama has more kits then she has teets, I can let the other mama foster one or two. I had one doe have 9 kits the same day another doe had 5. I just put some vanilla extract on the foster mama's nose and all the kits first so she couldn't smell that the kits weren't hers for a few days. By the time the extract wore off, her biological and foster kits all smelled the same. 


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## Cud579

We are getting back into rabbits and thouggt I would share some stuff I found that should make the "deed" easier/quicker. I found something called a rabbit wringer on pinterest. It is designed so that 1 person can take care of the butchering where it always took 2 of us before. 1 to hold the rabbit 1 to cut off the head. I had hubby make me one of these items. Then I also stumbled across a you tube video of some guy deboning an entire rabbit. That was pretty neat. I will def try this. I am most certain it will take me quite a while to get it done but I am up for a challenge.


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## Grimm

LincTex said:


> That one stumped me. :scratch
> 
> I had to search it - - WEIRD. :nuts:


How is it weird except they damaged their spines? Just like with people they can still survive being paralyzed. You have to watch them and make sure their rears are clean but they can do just fine but not as breeding stock.


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## Grimm

GunRackJack said:


> I made their nesting boxes out of scrap plywood I had lying around because I was afraid that the metal ones would get too hot in the Texas heat. I'd thought about putting wire mesh for the flooring of the nesting box, but worried that if mama moved the box then little feet would get pinched. So it has a wooden floor. NZ's tend to have a 31-32 day gestation period, so I just put it in on the 30th night. By then nesting instincts have kicked in and my does won't use it to potty in, so the boxes don't really get dirty.
> 
> A word of friendly advice, if you have two does I've found that it's best to breed them both on the same day, as opposed to staggering them. That way if mama has more kits then she has teets, I can let the other mama foster one or two. I had one doe have 9 kits the same day another doe had 5. I just put some vanilla extract on the foster mama's nose and all the kits first so she couldn't smell that the kits weren't hers for a few days. By the time the extract wore off, her biological and foster kits all smelled the same.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


I never had any of my does or bucks potty in their nesting boxes. I can see how that can be an issues but never had to deal with it. I did have to make open front boxes like dog houses but smaller for my bucks with the broken backs. They couldn't drag their rears over the lip on the boxes. Even my injured boys never pottied in their nesting boxes. May be it had to do with the fact I raised wild rabbits.


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## LincTex

Grimm said:


> How is it weird except they damaged their spines?


It is VERY weird that they broke their spine so easily!

I had not imagined they were so darn fragile.


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## Grimm

LincTex said:


> It is VERY weird that they broke their spine so easily!
> 
> I had not imagined they were so darn fragile.


They can break their back just by jumping hard. It is sad but part of life.


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## cowboyhermit

I also thought it was pretty strange but I had heard of it before (we have dabbled into rabbits over the years). I have never heard of it with wild rabbits though. I spook rabbits all the time and have never seen one injured, maybe a dietary or exercise issue (wild rabbits are in better shape from a young age)?

Rabbits definitely are not the most robust animal though, especially in captivity, so many stories of rabbits getting spooked, eating their babies, etc.


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## Grimm

cowboyhermit said:


> I also thought it was pretty strange but I had heard of it before (we have dabbled into rabbits over the years). I have never heard of it with wild rabbits though. I spook rabbits all the time and have never seen one injured, maybe a dietary or exercise issue (wild rabbits are in better shape from a young age)?
> 
> Rabbits definitely are not the most robust animal though, especially in captivity, so many stories of rabbits getting spooked, eating their babies, etc.


With all the rabbits I have raised I only had one wild buck break his back. He got stuck in a thicket in the yard while having run of the yard. The neighbor's dobbie scared him and he tried to run through the thicket to 'escape' the dog on the other side of the fence and got stuck. I have had 2 domestic bucks break their backs just by jumping hard across the yard. They were not from the same gene pool and were many years apart in my breeding.

On the farm where I caught the wild buns they had many domestic bucks break their backs in their breeding program. They also free ranged the buns for periods during the day. They would put the bucks down when they broke their backs rather than keep hem. They had no purpose if they couldn't breed.

I also had a wild doe that ate her first litter of kits. She was so new to the breeding program and one of my bucks got to her in the yard. I had sexed her wrong and that is why she was free ranging with the bucks. I didn't handle my bucks as much as I should have so she was a bit more wild than my other does. I had cleaned her cage (not her nesting box but her bowls and her lounging board) and she got pissed I had done that so she ate the kits at a few days old.


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## cowboyhermit

That makes sense, we have had calves break their legs, given a crazy enough situation so it doesn't surprise me that an accident could happen with the wild ones, especially if they are high-strung.

As for the domesticated, can't say it really surprises me, hatcheries made turkeys that are unable to breed, and if you want to see health problems just offer a "modern" broiler chicken free choice food and let them live to maturity There are a lot of solid breeds and lines around though, and I'm sure the same is true with rabbits.

Sorry if I sounded disparaging to anyone with rabbits by saying they were not that hardy. I think they are great, especially that they can utilize grass and forages otherwise difficult to use on a small scale. All of the problems with rabbits have solutions, they have been around for awhile


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## GunRackJack

I've bred meat rabbits for a few years now and I've never had any of them break their backs. Is that a fairly common problem or could it simply be genetic? 

I did a lot of research on dispatching rabbits before I ever had to. I found a YouTube video that showed a woman placing a rabbit between her feet, gently laying a stick on it's neck while it was eating grass, them stepping on either side of the stick while grabbing the back legs and pulling up, thus breaking it's neck. Then she just used a knife to slice through the neck. Looked easy enough! I used that method for awhile, but then found that if I pulled a bit harder their heads would just separate from the bodies. I've found this to be the most effective. They go from happily eating grass to completely decapitated in one motion that takes maybe two or three seconds. I like this because I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they're dead immediately. No momentary doubt. Hope that makes sense...

Could one of you please tell me how to properly quote someone in a post? I've not been able to figure that out. Maybe because I only use the iPhone app?


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## Grimm

GunRackJack said:


> I've bred meat rabbits for a few years now and I've never had any of them break their backs. Is that a fairly common problem or could it simply be genetic?


Since my bucks that broke their backs were in no way genetically linked it is not genetic. Some breeds are more delicate then others. If you have rabbits that spook easy or can get rambunctious you will see broken backs more often. Since I free ranged my buns it was a common occurrence. Caged buns are less likely to have spine issues.

FYI
I use the "quote" button on the post I want to quote.


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## GunRackJack

I gotcha. Mine have been primarily raised in a cage. They get free time periodically in a rabbit tractor so they can mow my yard.  I'd let them free-range but we have a lot of big birds of prey in my area. They'd probably be fine as they're a hefty 8 lbs, but my kids are really attached to our breeders. 

Hmm, the iPhone app doesn't have a quote button. Or if it does, I haven't found it yet. 


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## Grimm

GunRackJack said:


> I gotcha. Mine have been primarily raised in a cage. They get free time periodically in a rabbit tractor so they can mow my yard.  I'd let them free-range but we have a lot of big birds of prey in my area. They'd probably be fine as they're a hefty 8 lbs, but my kids are really attached to our breeders.
> 
> Hmm, the iPhone app doesn't have a quote button. Or if it does, I haven't found it yet.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


I'd love to see pictures of your set up.

I didn't see the need for a rabbit tractor because our yard was 100% fenced and the dog kept the hawks away. Where we are now I can see the need for a rabbit tractor but I'm going to focus on chickens first.


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## Dakine

one of the most surprising things I've found so far in my rabbitry adventures is the amazing amount of water that rabbits consume!

it's not "optional"! Rabbits teeth grow 12cm per year... HOLY CRAP!!! so now they need things like massive amounts of hay to keep them gnawing and grinding those teeth to a healthy level... 

okay cool! 

but consuming and digesting that much hay or grass if you're tractor/free ranging feeding in a yard means you need to give them ample water to move that roughage through their system!!!

You get a bonus on the back end! (pardon my pun lol!) the rabbit poop is incredible fertilizer, but the water demands for these animals is significant. Having never raised cattle, I can't compare it, I did see a website that said that if you compared 1 buck and 2 does vs 1 beef steer, after a year the rabbits produce 600 lbs of meat, and the steer is 400 lbs, and to make it even worse, the rabbits cost $4 per lb annually and the cow is $7+

So rabbits = 150% the meat and 50'ish% the cost, and they produce their meat all year long, not all in one huge lump that you must deal with or lose.


but seriously, be ready for the water consumption if you are planning them to be part of your preps and there's no grid = therefore no flowing water from city lines...


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## camo2460

Dakine said:


> one of the most surprising things I've found so far in my rabbitry adventures is the amazing amount of water that rabbits consume!
> 
> it's not "optional"! Rabbits teeth grow 12cm per year... HOLY CRAP!!! so now they need things like massive amounts of hay to keep them gnawing and grinding those teeth to a healthy level...
> 
> okay cool!
> 
> but consuming and digesting that much hay or grass if you're tractor/free ranging feeding in a yard means you need to give them ample water to move that roughage through their system!!!
> 
> You get a bonus on the back end! (pardon my pun lol!) the rabbit poop is incredible fertilizer, but the water demands for these animals is significant. Having never raised cattle, I can't compare it, I did see a website that said that if you compared 1 buck and 2 does vs 1 beef steer, after a year the rabbits produce 600 lbs of meat, and the steer is 400 lbs, and to make it even worse, the rabbits cost $4 per lb annually and the cow is $7+
> 
> So rabbits = 150% the meat and 50'ish% the cost, and they produce their meat all year long, not all in one huge lump that you must deal with or lose.
> 
> but seriously, be ready for the water consumption if you are planning them to be part of your preps and there's no grid = therefore no flowing water from city lines...


Dak, I just threw in a chunk of seasoned Oak for my Rabbits to chew on, but another solution is to get a leg bone of a cow from your butcher, cook it in your oven, and cut it into pieces. Your Rabbits will wear down their teeth, and get Calcium at the same time.


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## Grimm

camo2460 said:


> Dak, I just threw in a chunk of seasoned Oak for my Rabbits to chew on, but another solution is to get a leg bone of a cow from your butcher, cook it in your oven, and cut it into pieces. Your Rabbits will wear down their teeth, and get Calcium at the same time.


My buns chewed their nesting boxes and the chain link of their cages to wear down their teeth.

I found that the timothy hay that is recommended for rabbits is a major rip off and in the wild they chew tree roots and twigs when they make their nests.

I like the bone idea and might use it this time around.


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## cowboyhermit

Dakine said:


> Having never raised cattle, I can't compare it, I did see a website that said that if you compared 1 buck and 2 does vs 1 beef steer, after a year the rabbits produce 600 lbs of meat, and the steer is 400 lbs, and to make it even worse, the rabbits cost $4 per lb annually and the cow is $7+
> 
> So rabbits = 150% the meat and 50'ish% the cost, and they produce their meat all year long, not all in one huge lump that you must deal with or lose.


The comparisons of amount of meat raised is always a strained one, 400lbs for cattle would not be completely out of the question though. Trouble is 1 year old calves are not really ready to be butchered, you can of course but better results will be achieved by raising for another year or so, of course that makes calculations more tricky, plus you have the cow to butcher at some point as well. If you add in the factor that a dual purpose cow can raise that beef and also provide you with a gallon or more of milk/day as well it looks completely different.

They are really entirely different animals though, for a truly small scale (less than 5-10 acres) even miniature cattle are not the easiest thing while rabbits are perfect. Cattle on the other hand require a lot less labour (predator protection, fencing, butchering etc).

Those price numbers are completely insane though Even with only the $400lb figure that would be $2800 
Depending on how they are raised we raise a calf for a few hundred bucks and a couple hours of labour/year/animal.


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## Dakine

Grimm said:


> My buns chewed their nesting boxes and the chain link of their cages to wear down their teeth.
> 
> I found that the timothy hay that is recommended for rabbits is a major rip off and in the wild they chew tree roots and twigs when they make their nests.
> 
> I like the bone idea and might use it this time around.


Yeah, it makes perfect sense there are other alternatives, timothy hay is not something rabbits in the wild are gonna go searching for when perfectly suitable alternatives are at hand...

the price really isn't something that puts me off, but if I were going to try to store some for a long term interruption of supply, then I'd have to figure out how to store it and prevent rot.

Substituting more plentiful (and free) alternatives like roots and branches that would work just as good, I'm assuming would drastically reduce the amount of poopz that the rabbits are putting out, which in my case is becoming garden fertilizer.

I've also read that rabbits *could* not necessarily *should* eat their own droppings three times, because there's that much undigested hay in the poop. It just runs through them so fast as long as they have the water to keep their system processing everything. Apparently this is also known to cause volunteers when the poop is used as garden fertilizer, but the random hay seed popping up out of the ground is easily yanked and that's the end of that.

I'm really just getting started so I haven't prepped the rabbits much, they have a couple 50 lbs bags of food to start with, this month I'll get another bag and another bale of hay, the empty bags are going to be used as potato buckets anyway, so why not (wish I'd thought of that before I threw away the first bag). I need to buy a couple more vittles vaults though, hmmm time to start making a list lol...

a flake of hay lasted the bunnies about...ehh almost 2 - 2.5 weeks? and I put in a large handful every morning and evening. The bale should see the same kind of return on the larger scale. I may try to figure out something as an alternative though, like for example I've seen hay bales in fields as I drive out to the rez for one of the shooting sports I compete in, maybe next time I see that I'll pull into the driveway and see what the farmer has and what he's willing to sell for with me paying cash and driving away as is instead of him paying labor to pick it up and transport to someone. Timothy hay is $30 a bale here, not sure how that compares elsewhere for everyone else.

anyway... rabbits are cool. Really glad I finally took the plunge and got them started. Chickens will be next. but I will need to build the tractor first. and my yard sucks for flat surfaces and secure chicken habitat from coyotes, feral / stray dogs / owls / possums & ***** / whatever else may come looking for dinner 

I also need to start working on the 2nd BunnyBunker, because the season for baby bunnies is really just a few months away for my doe, it would be a lot easier if I actually build it now while there's plenty of time instead of in a hurry to get it done lol...


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## Dakine

camo2460 said:


> Dak, I just threw in a chunk of seasoned Oak for my Rabbits to chew on, but another solution is to get a leg bone of a cow from your butcher, cook it in your oven, and cut it into pieces. Your Rabbits will wear down their teeth, and get Calcium at the same time.


Thanks, that's a good alternative and maybe I'll get one and use that as yet another thing they have available.

I probably really spoil my rabbits. I give them carrots, apples, banana slices etc as treats. that cow bone idea is a really good thing if they like it compared to the little wooden ball things that they use as toys and chews which are $4 a pop!


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## Dakine

cowboyhermit said:


> The comparisons of amount of meat raised is always a strained one, 400lbs for cattle would not be completely out of the question though. Trouble is 1 year old calves are not really ready to be butchered, you can of course but better results will be achieved by raising for another year or so, of course that makes calculations more tricky, plus you have the cow to butcher at some point as well. If you add in the factor that a dual purpose cow can raise that beef and also provide you with a gallon or more of milk/day as well it looks completely different.
> 
> They are really entirely different animals though, for a truly small scale (less than 5-10 acres) even miniature cattle are not the easiest thing while rabbits are perfect. Cattle on the other hand require a lot less labour (predator protection, fencing, butchering etc).
> 
> Those price numbers are completely insane though Even with only the $400lb figure that would be $2800
> Depending on how they are raised we raise a calf for a few hundred bucks and a couple hours of labour/year/animal.


yeah... I dont know how they derived those numbers. for example maybe they meant Dak raises the calf after weaning in his yard... Dak's yard is notoriously short of cow sustaining grazing land... so at that point, the cost to feed for one year would basically mean purchasing and supplying ALL feed and whatever supplements the calf needs for the entire year. on the other hand, if someone has acres of land, and grass grows freely from reliable rain fall... sure why bother buying it?

now all that aside, today, the code enforcement bureau is probably not going to get really freaked out by my rabbits, or chickens when I add them (although I still might go with ducks... ) but I guarantee I put a cow in the yard and there's gonna be problems lol

after a collapse or other SHTF situation I'm then no better off with the calf, while code enforcement city employees are either going to be scarce or otherwise occupied, obtaining the cow, and the feed and water and fending off 2 legged predators is untenable.


----------



## Grimm

When you are ready for chickens let me know. There is a 'breeder' here in town that has chicks year round and has MANY breeds. She also has larger birds like geese, ducks and wait for it... turkeys! She sells them all as chicks/babies and her prices are comparable to feed stores and ordering online. You just have to pick up the birds so no shipping costs. I am planning to get some Buckeyes from her soon.


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> When you are ready for chickens let me know. There is a 'breeder' here in town that has chicks year round and has MANY breeds. She also has larger birds like geese, ducks and wait for it... turkeys! She sells them all as chicks/babies and her prices are comparable to feed stores and ordering online. You just have to pick up the birds so no shipping costs. I am planning to get some Buckeyes from her soon.


Thanks! but the county feed supply store is only about 4 miles away and they have all of that as well 

Although driving out there isn't a bad idea at all


----------



## valannb22

I give all of mine pine cones to chew on. They're free and the rabbits like them


----------



## LincTex

Dakine said:


> but seriously, be ready for the water consumption if you are planning them to be part of your preps and there's no grid = therefore no flowing water from city lines...


They should be able to handle straight rain water.

If you are using pond/creek water, strain it through some denim pants legs and run it through a BioSand water filter.


----------



## Dakine

valannb22 said:


> I give all of mine pine cones to chew on. They're free and the rabbits like them


I have no pine cones  please bring some here!


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> I have no pine cones  please bring some here!


Maybe take a day trip up to the mountains. You can find "widow makers" on the ground. They should last a long time with the buns.


----------



## *Andi

Grimm said:


> Maybe take a day trip up to the mountains. You can find "widow makers" on the ground. They should last a long time with the buns.


In our area a widow maker is a dead/falling snag ... Thank for the info! (and cool picture)


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> Maybe take a day trip up to the mountains. You can find "widow makers" on the ground. They should last a long time with the buns.


that measuring tape must be in centimeters!

I went pig hunting in Descanso about two months ago, and there were a TON of those huge pine cones laying around after we stopped by the ranger station to ask "hey... WTF,.. where's all the pigs???" on our way out for the day. 

there were also a few signs posted about not taking anything... fine... >.<

now that I have the rabbits, I'll be sure to keep an eye open for pine cones


----------



## valannb22

Wow! That looks kinda like a pineapple, not a pine cone lol


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


----------



## Dakine

I've added a new pair, this one a different breed and they can start breeding as soon as I put them to the task!

I still have work to do getting the predator defenses under control so I'm focusing on that first.

My plans are 1 buck and 2 does, per breed... and those should extrapolate out to massive amounts of harvested meat and potential sales of rabbits for people looking to get into meat rabbits too.

like any "prep" you cant figure to go "buy" a pair of rabbits when SHTF, you need them up and running, NOW... TODAY otherwise all you have is a hope and a dream for a few months down the road. Good luck!!!


----------



## *Andi

Dakine said:


> I've added a new pair, this one a different breed and they can start breeding as soon as I put them to the task!
> 
> I still have work to do getting the predator defenses under control so I'm focusing on that first.
> 
> My plans are 1 buck and 2 does, per breed... and those should extrapolate out to massive amounts of harvested meat and potential sales of rabbits for people looking to get into meat rabbits too.
> 
> like any "prep" you cant figure to go "buy" a pair of rabbits when SHTF, you need them up and running, NOW... TODAY otherwise all you have is a hope and a dream for a few months down the road. Good luck!!!


And that "different" breed would be ???


----------



## Dakine

the new breed is Californians

I was worried at first, it's taken them some time to start eating and drinking. 


but she is finally hitting the water bottle hard and I watched her eat hay, and he is just finally starting to hit the water bottle and he went NOM crazy on the carrot chunk and he nibbled hay... 

I'm thinking it was the long commute from where they lived before to get to me that kinda threw them outta whack, and it seems like they are both gonna start eating and drinking now... drinking being more important!!!

I have been busy building the BunnyBunker 4000

I have to decide... IDPA on Saturday, or Rabbit show tomorrow at the county fair. I need to get the BunnyBunker completed!


----------



## Grimm

Just a reminder because of the heat...

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pet/4491529767.html


----------



## ArizonaJake

Anyone know a good site for info on rabbits raising in the desert.


----------



## Grimm

ArizonaJake said:


> Anyone know a good site for info on rabbits raising in the desert.


The link in my post above your is a post from CL that has some great info about helping buns cool down in the heat. Take a look.



> PLEASE IF U OWN A RABBIT AND IT IS OUTSIDE, CHECK ON IT EVER FEW HOURS OR AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN THIS HEAT.
> 
> PLACE THEM IN A SHADY AREA OR HAVE THEM COVERED FROM THE SUN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.
> 
> HAVE THEM IN A CAGE THAT IS WELL VENTILATED SO THEY GET LOTS OF AIR FLOW THRU THE CAGE.
> 
> FREEZE 2 LT FILLED WITH WATER AND PLACE IN THERE CAGE SO THEY HAVE SOMETHING COOL TO LEAN AGAINST,(PLEASE REMOVE ANY LABELS TO PREVENT THEM FROM EATING IT).
> 
> YOU CAN ALSO PLACE A SLAB OF GRANITE OR OTHER KNOWN TILE THAT STAY COOL, IN THE RABBITS CAGE TO KEEP THEM COOL.
> 
> IF IT JUST GET TO HOT OUT THERE, PLEASE DONT HESITATE TO BRING THEM IN TO THE HOUSE FOR THE DAY. CAN KEEP THEM IN A SPARE ROOM OR BATHROOM AWAY FROM A WINDOW.
> 
> MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A LARGER WATER BOWL IN THERE AND CHANGE THE WATER AS MUCH AS U CAN DURING THE DAY TO KEEP IT COOL AND FRESH(RABBITS WILL NOT DRINK WARM OR HOT WATER).
> 
> ALSO U CAN ADD ICE CUBES TO THE WATER EVERY FEW HOURS OR AS NEEDED.
> 
> YOU CAN ALSO MIST THERE EARS WITH A SPRAY BOTTLE OF COLD WATER(THEY RELEASE HEAT FROM THERE EARS)
> 
> DO NOT SOAK UR BUNNIES COAT, IT WILL JUST MAKE THEM HOTTER..
> 
> BUNNIES ARE MORE LIKELY TO DIE THEN THE ADULTS.
> 
> WET VEGGIES BEFORE GIVING THEM TO UR RABBIT(OVER SIX MONTHS) SO THAT THEY CAN BE MORE HYDRATED.
> 
> CLEAN THERE LITTER PANS MORE OFTEN TO PREVENT FLIES.
> 
> CLEAN THERE CAGE OF STOOL DAILY AND DEEP CLEAN WEEKLY
> 
> CHECK THERE BEHINDS FOR CLEANLINESS. LOTS OF BUNNIES WHEN THEY ARE TO HOT WILL GET WATERY STOOL AND IT CAN STICK TO THERE BEHINDS AND ATTRACT FLIES.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Once again, not an expert in rabbits but one thing in that post makes me wonder. I don't think it is physically possible that an animal soaked with water can be hotter. Perhaps in direct sunlight :dunno: it can certainly not be healthy though.

Something that might be worth considering is underground.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/004/ac151e/AC151E13.htm


> All the performance parameters were significantly improved in rabbits housed in the underground shelters compared with the cages. The does in underground shelters were 8% heavier after 2 months in the experiments, they gave birth to 9% more offspring and weaned 36% more than those in cages. Survival rate to weaning of the offspring in underground shelters was improved from 69 to 86%. Parturition interval was reduced from 77 to 49 days.
> 
> During the growing-fattening phase, the rabbits in underground shelters were 17% heavier after 1 month and 20% heavier after 3 months with average growth rates that were 23% greater.
> 
> It is concluded that the underground shelter system of housing is especially suitable for rabbit production for small scale farmers in tropical regions.


----------



## Grimm

cowboyhermit said:


> Once again, not an expert in rabbits but one thing in that post makes me wonder. I don't think it is physically possible that an animal soaked with water can be hotter. Perhaps in direct sunlight :dunno: it can certainly not be healthy though.


http://animals.pawnation.com/cant-bunnies-wet-9034.html


----------



## Grimm

More about raising rabbits in the heat...

http://riseandshinerabbitry.com/2012/04/22/tips-for-raising-rabbits-in-the-heat/


----------



## ArizonaJake

How do you make a underground shelter whats it look like?


----------



## Grimm

ArizonaJake said:


> How do you make a underground shelter whats it look like?


http://www.raising-rabbits.com/cooling-rabbits.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=und...AS55AI&ved=0CB4QsAQ&biw=1099&bih=599#imgdii=_


----------



## cowboyhermit

Grimm said:


> http://animals.pawnation.com/cant-bunnies-wet-9034.html


That link confirms what logic would lead me to think. Wet rabbits will get colder, not hotter, but that doesn't make it healthy.


----------



## Grimm

cowboyhermit said:


> That link confirms what logic would lead me to think. Wet rabbits will get colder, not hotter, but that doesn't make it healthy.


I agree. That is why I posted the link.


----------



## Dakine

ahhhh the best part of a day off! cleaning cages and sorting the hay out of the poop! 

at least all the holes are dug for putting in the new hutch, digging through a couple feet of clay is not fun, I will be buying the post hole augur from Harbor Freight before I build another big hutch.


----------



## LincTex

Dakine said:


> digging through a couple feet of clay is not fun, I will be buying the post hole augur from Harbor Freight before I build another big hutch.


If it is like Texas clay, don't bother - I tried it and it doesn't work.

*THIS does: * 
http://www.harborfreight.com/18-lb-pinch-point-bar-95971.html










I like this one, too:
http://www.harborfreight.com/17-lb-digging-bar-with-tamper-93612.html

*
One of these is the Bee's Knees - I LOVE having one!!*


----------



## Dakine

HA! I'm jealous of your augur! 


Yep, that's almost exactly what I used, Harbor Freight has the digging bars on clearance and I got the one with a blade edge on one side and a pointed edge on the other. It says 17 lbs but after using that to dig a 2' hole in the clay I'd swear they were off by a few... hundred. 

I'm working out the design of the next BunnyBunker in my head right now and I'm going to be buying the HF augur and the accessory 6" bit for it. No more of this clay digging crap!!!

The model BunnyBunker 5000 is going to be single story, as opposed to the 4000 which is like a condo lol I get another doe for my Satin buck in a couple weeks and I want to get another doe for the Cali buck in a month or so... probably start building the BB5k in a few weeks.

I mated the Cali's today too while I was out there, so hopefully I'll be having rabbit for dinner in 3 months!


----------



## Dakine

well I was going to try again after about 3.5 hours, I've read and seen youtubes that recommend having them try several times but she was grunting at me, and started biting him right away several times so I put them back in their cages. 

I'll prob try again at around 8pm but if she's still grumpy I guess that might be it and I'll find out if it worked in a month


----------



## Dakine

added bunny #5 to the herd today! She's a tiny thing! only a couple months old and will become the other doe for my Satin buck. which reminds me, I need to inquire to the Cali's breeder about getting another doe from them.


----------



## Dakine

the new hutch, I had to modify it after it was already partly assembled, originally it was going to hold 4 cages, two levels of 2 cages each but that became obvious that it was going to be really difficult to work with. Anyway now it's a single level duplex! The side and bottom wire needs to go on still, and the roof, but I had to rehab a shoulder injury before I could do anymore work, and then I took advantage of a chance to get some help moving it from the front to the back yard.

I think it's going to work out really well, I'm going to make a few more just like it and extend the cages out along the rest of the retaining wall. I'm also going to plant some jasmine or something, I dont have any neighbors that are concerned about any rabbit smells currently but it's possible in the future. I keep the rabbits cages squared away as it is, the poop trays are rotated almost daily, etc... it's extremely rare that I smell anything from them at all, but I want to avoid trouble, and I plan on getting at least one more for my breeding herd, another doe for the californians would probably be just about right.

I need to pick up another bag of gravel rock to level out the front holes, then I can fill them back in with that nasty crap clay that took so much work to dig out LOL!


----------



## Dakine

the frame above is completely planted now. I used more than half a foot of gravel at the base of the 2 foot holes for drainage so I decided to skip the cement and just refilled with the clay dirt.

The newest bunny is moved in! I still need to wire up the sides. I have a temporary roof rigged to keep it shady, it's working out very well... I'm not sure which rabbit cage will get hung on the other side. 

The nesting box is now in the Cali does cage.

Lets see what happens the next couple days, hopefully the breeding was successfull a month ago and soon there will be kits saying :wave:


----------



## nightwing

Rabbit poop is the only guano I know of that you can put fresh on plants 
without killing them or burning the roots.

I usually put a scoop in the bottom of the hole when planting new plants 
and the spring I spread it on top of the ground and water it in.

I also put a half cup of Epsom salts in a 3 foot circle around may 
blackberries, fig trees, and grapes my pomagranits are growing but I have no 
experience with them so I do not know how long before they bear fruit.

I also use 10-10-10 fertilizer a small amount like a 1/4 cup every month 
in a 6 foot circle as I am hoping to have the roots spread but I try to be careful so not to burn the roots with too much fertilizer.
and too much water is as bad as too little, so research how much and wehn is best.


----------



## ArizonaJake

Im looking to build or buy a hutch but im unsure of the size i should have. To raise for a possible food supply what size ahould the habbitat be for 4 people


----------



## Cud579

Our cages are 2 1/2 x 2 1/2 feet. That is for the does and our bucks are on cages that are 2 x 21/2 feet.

This cage is a double and houses 2 does.


----------



## nightwing

I just buy hardware cloth (ridged type) and have the clips 
pliers and feeders waterer's that I intend to use.
This also gives me scrap to repair bad spots that happen form them
using one area as their bathroom 
Some of these premade cages are better weight but they can come unwelded 
and you may need to solder the wire back together.
Just count on making some repairs and if you have the hardware no problem.

I built a gravity watering system with a bucket a toilet tank filler
lick waterer stems from Bass and PVC pipe.
I placed a plug at the end of the run to wash out any sediment 
and covered the bucket with muslin to keep out any particulates
hair or insects.
I also have bottles and a line heater for winter in case of water 
outage or freezing weather I can in emergencies leave the rabbits for 
up to 3 days (I do not like the idea) but life throws curves so I try to be prepared.


----------



## Dakine

ArizonaJake said:


> Im looking to build or buy a hutch but im unsure of the size i should have. To raise for a possible food supply what size ahould the habbitat be for 4 people


I have 5 rabbits currently. I started with 2 and bought pre-fab unassembled cages. They are 2'x2'x16" I chose that size because it fit inside of a steel computer server rack that I had and turned into a protective housing for the cages.

wow these are $43 now! I think they were only $33 when I bought mine in March.
http://www.amazon.com/Little-Giant2...d=1406775575&sr=8-2&keywords=wire+rabbit+cage

I then started looking at the cost and materials, buying vs. building my own cages. I bought a few different rolls of wire mesh hardware cloth, a few pounds of extra J-clips and I went to work.

I then bought 2 more rabbits, one of them went into a new Dak-made cage and the other (the doe) went into yet another cage I bought off of craigslist some years back and had been sitting unused for ages. This cage is a real professional grade model, and sports a slide in/out metal tray for the poop urine and whatever else they kick loose out of the cage (food, hay, etc)

The last rabbit I got 2 weeks ago and is in a Dak cage and she loves it! but those Dak cages are big, they are 30"x30"x24"

I think I could put 2 or 3 does in one of those cages (small ones that are not going be breeders) that are going to be consumed as food when they are 8-12 weeks old.

I'm not sure how territorial the bucks are. I don't know if that's a problem at that juvenile age or not.

getting back to the question of how many rabbits and how big are the cages, you may want to watch this series of videos:

he recommends and I concur as a relative rabbit newbie, that Storey's Guide to Raising Rabbits by Bob Bennett is a great resource, I highly recommend it. Do you "need" to do everything he says? nope, you don't have to have pedigrees at all, if all you want is meat rabbits what do you care? but I paid extra anyways and got the pedigrees, and I can sell the babies with that kind of premium attached. I don't know that I will, but it's an option now.

Sorry, I still haven't directly answered your question, but I think the question itself is largely undefined. how much food you need depends on how many calories you're going to burn during the day. If I was considering a family of 4 the options are crazy... is it husband and wife and both have day jobs? is it 2 small kids and they basically eat 1 adult portion at meal time for both of them, is it 4 working adults tending to gardens, farms, and raising animals and stuff like that all day long every day?

All of those factors influence how much food you need to provide, and therefore how many rabbits and how big a garden you need.

http://www.amazon.com/Storeys-Guide...words=storeys+guide+to+raising+rabbits&dpPl=1

anyway, hope these references help! 

Part 1: cages, setup and construction





Part 2: Birthing babies and preparing the nesting box





Part 3: kits explosive growth, from fingerlings to small bunnies in 2 weeks


----------



## talob

I'm also seriously thinking about getting into raiseing rabbits (and hogs) for meat, a very informative set of videos. Thanks


----------



## Dakine

talob said:


> I'm also seriously thinking about getting into raiseing rabbits (and hogs) for meat, a very informative set of videos. Thanks


my doe is pulling her fur and lining the nesting box with that today, I think there will be baby bunnies in a night or two! I bred her on June 30th so today is the 31st day, we'll see how it goes!

Here's another video, I really like this guys rabbitry! The cages with the below decks nesting box is really cool, but if you read the comments he ended up discontinuing using those because of the space they consume.


----------



## Dakine

Success!!!

Last night the doe kindled and it looks like there's about half a dozen in there. I briefly took the nesting box out and pulled the fur covering back, they were all pink and looked like they were all wiggling so I didnt want to disturb them anymore than necessary and put the nest box back into the cage.

Rabbit for dinner Nov 1st


----------



## nightwing

I have found to start a rabbit take a stick and poke him in the rear 
man does he take off ---- errr that wasn't the Idea of the thread was it?
oh well I tried :scratch


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> Success!!!
> 
> Last night the doe kindled and it looks like there's about half a dozen in there. I briefly took the nesting box out and pulled the fur covering back, they were all pink and looked like they were all wiggling so I didnt want to disturb them anymore than necessary and put the nest box back into the cage.
> 
> Rabbit for dinner Nov 1st


Once your freezer is full of bunny would you consider selling a few of them? Alive.


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> Once your freezer is full of bunny would you consider selling a few of them? Alive.


sure! while I don't think the freezer will ever get full, because I'll probably can Rabbit Stew and Rabbit Chili instead of freezing. :yummy:

but there will be lots more where these came from, pick a flavor... chocolate or vanilla LOL! I have copper satins and californians.


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> sure! while I don't think the freezer will ever get full, because I'll probably can Rabbit Stew and Rabbit Chili instead of freezing. :yummy:
> 
> but there will be lots more where these came from, pick a flavor... chocolate or vanilla LOL! I have copper satins and californians.


Once You have had your fill of rabbit and I have my cages set up I'd want 4-6 California does and 2-3 satin bucks.


----------



## Dakine

nightwing said:


> I have found to start a rabbit take a stick and poke him in the rear
> man does he take off ---- errr that wasn't the Idea of the thread was it?
> oh well I tried :scratch


nice try, but no


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> Once You have had your fill of rabbit and I have my cages set up I'd want 4-6 California does and 2-3 satin bucks.


Nice! interesting mix! I honestly hadn't thought of mixing of them because I've been buying them as pure breds on the chance a whim will have me really try to enter one into a show or sell as a purebred.

Well, the Californian's are kindling now of course, so that's when-ev's but the older satin doe isn't going to be bred until Sept 1, and the younger one is Dec 1, so add 2 months to each of them for weaning and those are the earliest options.

I'm looking to get another Cali but that will likely be a juvenile and be even a couple more months behind than the Satins but the breeder I bought from doesn't have any that would be purely unrelated. Thinking now tho... why not buy from a local guy that is in Esco? I could get a doe and I dont care about pedigree, he doesn't give them just says they are and charges the non ped fee. It's meat rabbits, not show rabbits, so why not. hmmm... :hmmm:

This hobby is really taking off for me, and I'm liking it a LOT!!! I've already started preparing for the hides, I think my first project will be a blanket.

just keep me posted on your plans for cages and we can sort it out!


----------



## nightwing

I have raised rabbits on a small scale no more than a couple dozen 
I like rabbits over any other animal that can be raised for a lot of reason

1 they don't smell if you keep the area clean 
2.not noisy if you were keeping a few in your garage no one would know 
3 a tuna fish can full of feed can sustain a full size rabit.
4 every 31 days you have bunnies and the lest I have seen was 3
in 6 weeks to 2 months you have a large enough animal to take for meat
5 water consumption is low 
6 diseases that can be transmitted to humans is low 
7 the meat is excellent and the mild flavor can be altered with bullion 
or spice
8 they are fairly easy to care for but make no mistake they have teeth 
and claws and can and will use them.
9 Rabbits can and love to eat vegetable scraps know what they can eat
10 Their poop is the best fertilizer and is not hot so it is safe to use fresh
11 earth worms love it and this is a second crop you can sell or allows 
you use as free fish bait or sell 
12 you can grind the bones into chicken food additive or dog food 
if this bothers you read the label on what goes into cat and dog food 
all animals need calcium and bone meal is a good source.
13 the hide has been tanned I do not but we have all seen lined gloves 
and jackets.
14 there are another hundred reasons if you dug deep but I cared about
breeders and and gave them extras like wood chew toys special 
treats and lot of hay and a salt block or wheel all of this reduces 
chances of them cannibalizing the newborns.

some eucalyptus mixed with mineral oil kills mites that grow in their 
ears the eucalyptus just makes it last longer and more effective 
not too much about an ounce in a large bottle of mineral oil.
dab on do not allow to go into the ear canal you can use Vaseline also.

wood or plywood seems to allow for more incidents of mites 
in hot weather a clay tile wet down cools them also a old bottle 
of frozen water is also a comfort in the hot summer.
small fans pointed in such a way they can get out from air flow 

there are a lot of things we tried to keep them comfortable 
We also tried not to stress the breeders by having litters back to back 
skip a cycle and try again but do not wait too long it does seem to 
make for smaller litters 

I have seldom seen it posted but you do have to cull / kill deformed or 
crippled bunnies it is what it is you can try as hard as you might 
but animals do what they do and sometimes that cause them to injure each other. 
breeding cages need a 2 inch barrier around the bottom to cut down on 
mortality.


----------



## Dakine

well there were 8 bunnies, but I went to check on them this morning and 6 were dead. Maybe from the heat?? hopefully these last two do okay, we'll see I guess.

I'm glad I checked on them. She is using the bathroom in the other end of the nesting box, towards the opening. I'm not sure if that means anything other than she happened to be there when it was time to poop? So I cleaned that out too.


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> well there were 8 bunnies, but I went to check on them this morning and 6 were dead. Maybe from the heat?? hopefully these last two do okay, we'll see I guess.


If this is the doe's first litter she may not be ready for the babies and accidentally killed the 6. I had a doe do this with her first litter. She didn't understand. Also watch how much you mess with the nesting box. Too much of your scent around the babies and the doe may kill the whole batch.

If you really think it is the heat maybe bring your 'pregnant' does inside during the heat to keep them cooler. I never bred mine in the summer because I hated being outside in the heat and didn't think it was fair to the babies and doe.


----------



## Dakine

I think this is her 2nd litter, with this buck even if i remember right from the girl I bought them from. I really don't know if it was the heat or not, it was mid-high 80's

And just now we had a freak lightning and thunderstorm.


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> I think this is her 2nd litter, with this buck even if i remember right from the girl I bought them from. I really don't know if it was the heat or not, it was mid-high 80's
> 
> And just now we had a freak lightning and thunderstorm.


I am waiting for that storm to reach us.


----------



## nightwing

Dakine said:


> well there were 8 bunnies, but I went to check on them this morning and 6 were dead. Maybe from the heat?? hopefully these last two do okay, we'll see I guess.
> 
> I'm glad I checked on them. She is using the bathroom in the other end of the nesting box, towards the opening. I'm not sure if that means anything other than she happened to be there when it was time to poop? So I cleaned that out too.


It happens sorry to hear If you have other mothers (does) that are nursing 
you can do a switch wipe them off well so none of the original mothers hair 
is on the bunny clean your hands get some fur from the mother you want to 
transfer the bunny to and wipe it all over and stick it in the nesting box
and the new mom will not reject it and raise it as her own 
This works well if one of your mothers / does has to many to care for 
and another either has lost some or had only a small litter.


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> I am waiting for that storm to reach us.


It seemed like we got a lot of rain, but what we really got was hot muggy nasty day all day long yesterday. The rain also revealed a failure in my rabbitry, the bunnybunker 3000 and 4000 models actually did quite well, but the Cali's living in the penthouse on top had some problems with exposure. Everything I've been doing so far has been about shading them from the sun.

I think I like how the BB4k worked out so much that I'm going to expedite my plans to build 3 or 4 more of them. Now that I have the one in place I know what do for the next builds to keep it easier and cheaper too which is nice.


----------



## Dakine

nightwing said:


> It happens sorry to hear If you have other mothers (does) that are nursing
> you can do a switch wipe them off well so none of the original mothers hair
> is on the bunny clean your hands get some fur from the mother you want to
> transfer the bunny to and wipe it all over and stick it in the nesting box
> and the new mom will not reject it and raise it as her own
> This works well if one of your mothers / does has to many to care for
> and another either has lost some or had only a small litter.


thanks but the other does I have are too young to be bred yet. it happens, and it's unfortunate but that's just part of life. I didn't pull the nesting box out today because I was able to see fur and hay wiggling around in there this morning so I know at least 1 of the 2 is still doing well. I'm going to check on them again tomorrow.

If you watched the video I posted earlier in this thread with the guy from AZ with the hutches that had a drop down nesting box, I just might consider doing something like that. I need to figure out how it will work. With a little modification I think my bunny bunker 3000 could be adapted to that style and it won't cost me any extra space at all because of the way that one is already mounted. Then I'd have my own birthing center with 2 cages that way. Hmmm, I'm liking that idea more and more...


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## Dakine

2 weeks old today!


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## Grimm

That is a cute little bun!


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## Dakine

Grimm said:


> That is a cute little bun!


I have cute buns... what can I say... 

and they appear to be both does, so they will not be dinners, they will get names and personal habitats (a nice way to say cage) and they'll live happily ever after!


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## Toffee

This is looking like a great set up. I can't wait to get started next spring, myself. We are thinking about getting silvers as they have nice furs and good meat gain. It's been quite some time since I raised any rabbits, but I still remember quite a bit.


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## Dakine

Now that the bunnies are out of the nesting box I realized I need to get something for them to have an easier time to walk on... but I put the tile normal side up. I happened to be out there doing feed/water/hay and I saw one of them come running across the wire mesh and hit the tile and it was like a ice skating wipe out on on a frozen lake! it was pretty funny but I flipped the tile over to the bottom side up so they can get some traction LOL!

They're eating hay now too!


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## Dakine

The cali bunnies are now a month old! one of them may still end up as stuffed rabbit! 





I bred the Satins today too!

I need to start organizing the does and breeding schedules better, and come up with better nesting box solutions. I don't want to lose 6 of 8 again, and I've got some ideas on resolving that, now I just need to get them implemented in the next few weeks before momma is ready to have her first litter.

It's all good in the hutch!


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## BillS

I wouldn't raise rabbits. I'd trap them using a live trap with bait and a trip wire. If you live in the right area you could probably trap three a week and never run out. But not everyone lives in an area like that.


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## Toffee

BillS said:


> I wouldn't raise rabbits. I'd trap them using a live trap with bait and a trip wire. If you live in the right area you could probably trap three a week and never run out. But not everyone lives in an area like that.


We have no wild rabbits where I live, but I wouldn't count on them being there either way.


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## Dakine

BillS said:


> I wouldn't raise rabbits. I'd trap them using a live trap with bait and a trip wire. If you live in the right area you could probably trap three a week and never run out. But not everyone lives in an area like that.


statistically speaking, I'd bet that very few people live in an area like that  maybe a bunch on this board, but given the population in general on earth... yeah... not so much! lolz


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## Dakine

I've got two does bred and hopefully are successfully kindling one week apart, I think the problem with dead kits was my fault  I think the nesting box was all wrong. It got super hot that week way early, and I only had 1 type of nesting box, and that is solid wood walls, which I now think was also too small, so add even more heat from momma rabbit when she's in there.

Now I'm making new nesting boxes, wire cages, and I'll look at whether I want to go buy wood chips or use timothy hay for the lining.. I'm tempted to say hay and let it be, but part of me thinks maybe I should do both. We'll see... but I bet my survival rate is way up with the wire box instead of solid wood walls.


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## Grimm

Dakine said:


> I've got two does bred and hopefully are successfully kindling one week apart, I think the problem with dead kits was my fault  I think the nesting box was all wrong. It got super hot that week way early, and I only had 1 type of nesting box, and that is solid wood walls, which I now think was also too small, so add even more heat from momma rabbit when she's in there.
> 
> Now I'm making new nesting boxes, wire cages, and I'll look at whether I want to go buy wood chips or use timothy hay for the lining.. I'm tempted to say hay and let it be, but part of me thinks maybe I should do both. We'll see... but I bet my survival rate is way up with the wire box instead of solid wood walls.


Well worn and clean fabric scraps are nice in the cooler months. Place some of your experimental nesting materials in the cages when the does start plucking their fur and see which extra materials they prefer. Some will pull what they like into the box to make it cozy. It is fun watching them test out different things before they give birth.


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