# So it's now 2 - 3 weeks After the SHTF



## pops

Where do you go for additional supplies?

Tractor supply? Farm and Feed store? Warehouses?

I have a Pepsi warehouse and a snack goods warehouse near me.

Tractor supply & Farm and feed have grains bulk dog food propane etc.

What are your thoughts?


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## eddy_dvyvan

Best place is walking out into the back garden and down to the barn. Less likely to get shot for looting

....seriously if your out of supplies after 2 weeks then you need to go back to the fundamentals. Im sure there will be some kind of law in place with shoot on sight orders for looters just 2 weeks after an event.


p.s you cant live on pepsi and snack foods


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## seanallen

Well pops: im thinking most of us on here will make it past a coupla weeks w/o needing resupply. Coupla months maybe. Several of us would make it a coupla years. A few would be danged near indefinately. 
As for where to resupply? Hmmmm... Good question. You gotta figger that the up-prepared/mighty hongry ones out there will have pretty much wiped out all the obvious places. All the sporting goods, grocery stores, major warehouses....all emptied. You might get lucky and hit some grain or corn silos nearby, maybe have a support network already set up for bartering and whatnot. Hunting and fishing will be very difficult after only a few weeks. Best to have all this set up in advance.


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## FrankW

A lot of those places will be either already plundered or guarded.....


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## Bobbb

As BlueZ notes, each of those warehouses has owners, managers and employees and if the SHTF they're not suddenly going to forget that they worked in a warehouse full of food and beverages.

If the plan of anyone on this board is to go looting 2 weeks after the SHTF then I think that they run a very good chance of having a bullet transit through their skull as people who own or work at the looting targets will do whatever they have to to protect THEIR food and supplies.


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## FrankW

Sounds like a good post SHTF plan.. work at a food warehouse. and when SHTF take it over with some armed buddies and you have food for a couple years..
IF you can defend it


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## Magus

I started scavving and trading the minute things calmed down.


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## cowboyhermit

I agree with all the posts so far, there will be supplies that you may acquire one way or another but going after a large warehouse or similar after a couple weeks would be ridiculously dangerous. This is the point in time when many people start to really realize that rule of law has broken down long term. Even if you could defend it from looters what about when the military/police/militia swing by, they know that it's there.

After a major event though, like Magus, I will be out there acquiring resources. I would certainly not wait until I started to run out of anything. I would have the regular work crew out here in no time stocking up on wood and gearing up to plant extra. I have at least one cow butchered and drying if things look really bad.


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## seanallen

Look. I know some of yall hate a looter. I totally understand. But im a realist. I know its gonna be dog eat dog. If your kids are starving because you cant feed them, are you gonna let them starve? Are you gonna stand on your moral principles and actually let your family starve to death? I dont think so. Those who get up on their soapbox and preach about how they are gonna do this or they are gonna do that after a SHTF event, cooperating with so and so, not going to scavenge or steal food or supplies. Ha!!! Probly havent been very hungry, have you? Well, i HAVE! im here to tell you that just a few days with no food and you will be a totally different person. These idealistic moral high grounds are meaningless when your stomach is knawing your backbone in half and the household pets are looking incredibly delicious. A few more days w/o food and you will be quite willing to kill someone else for their food. A few more days w/o food and most people would be willing to practice cannibalism. Extreme, DIRE hunger will turn a human into a cunning vicious animal.


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## cowboyhermit

I have been without food before, for extended periods of time, on different occasions, I never was willing to compromise my morals because of it, certainly would never be willing to kill anyone for their food.

However I understand there are those who would and that is the main reason I would avoid looting. It is the easiest way to get killed in a shtf situation. Much better to invest one's time and effort in safer, more reliable, and ethical ways of supporting oneself and others.


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## tortminder

seanallen said:


> Look. I know some of yall hate a looter. I totally understand. But im a realist. I know its gonna be dog eat dog. If your kids are starving because you cant feed them, are you gonna let them starve? Are you gonna stand on your moral principles and actually let your family starve to death? I dont think so. Those who get up on their soapbox and preach about how they are gonna do this or they are gonna do that after a SHTF event, cooperating with so and so, not going to scavenge or steal food or supplies. Ha!!! Probly havent been very hungry, have you? Well, i HAVE! im here to tell you that just a few days with no food and you will be a totally different person. These idealistic moral high grounds are meaningless when your stomach is knawing your backbone in half and the household pets are looking incredibly delicious. A few more days w/o food and you will be quite willing to kill someone else for their food. A few more days w/o food and most people would be willing to practice cannibalism. Extreme, DIRE hunger will turn a human into a cunning vicious animal.


Just remember brother, as you are willing to kill someone for THEIR food, they are willing to kill YOU to prevent you from taking their food.


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## seanallen

tortminder said:


> Just remember brother, as you are willing to kill someone for THEIR food, they are willing to kill YOU to prevent you from taking their food.


Absolutely! The best and only way to keep oneself out of that kind of situ is to prepare prepare prepare. Diligently! I totally would hate to find myself in that predicament. Thats why i do what i do. My friends and yes even some of my family think ive gone crazy prepping. I cant seem to get them to understand just how awful it can really get or how fast it can happen. Im not gonna be a liar and say im not gonna turn into a looter or a thief if me and my family are starving. If, God forbid, we ever get to that low point im gonna be out there doing what i have to do. I will probly hate myself for it, but hey! My kids will survive!


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## cowboyhermit

While most people hopefully would not be willing to kill someone for their food, leaving aside whether they would be capable, Many more would be willing to defend themselves and what they need to survive. They will be well nourished, have many friend and or workers, be able to trade for whatever they need to supplement their defenses, AND they will have the moral high ground. Which side would you rather be on?
The only way a prepared person would be without food or the means to obtain it would be if an oppressive force took their supplies and land. In that case it is not looting to take back what is yours or to "acquire" supplies from an occupying force.


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## Wellrounded

I don't have a problem with scavenging abandoned resources but you won't know they are abandoned for quite a while. No I wouldn't risk my life to steal or loot. Sure it'll feed you for a while but then you have to go out and take those risks over and over again. What would my family do if I didn't make it home. I'll use the energy and resources I have to do everything but loot. This is not a moral decision just a practical one.
I'm more than capable of using all the resources of the countryside here, I've made very sure I have the knowledge and experience to be able to do that. 

By the time I was that hungry everyone else would be just as hungry or dead.


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## Bobbb

seanallen said:


> Are you gonna stand on your moral principles and actually let your family starve to death? I dont think so. Those who get up on their soapbox and preach about how they are gonna do this or they are gonna do that after a SHTF event, cooperating with so and so, not going to scavenge or steal food or supplies. Ha!!! Probly havent been very hungry, have you?


Think of the audience here that is reading your comment. I'd say that north of 95% of us are not going to have food scarcity issues 2 weeks after an event, heck maybe 100% of us are safe. So if as preppers we're secure for the short haul that likely means that we'll be the targets of the people who depend on the 3 day supply of food that a city has located in all of its supermarkets, meaning that in the short term we'll be the defenders shooting down the looters. So yeah, most of us can get on that soapbox because we've taken precautions to prevent us from being the looters.

As for letting our families starve, of course not, but the situation now gets more complicated. In the immediate aftermath of an event most of us are stocked so that we can ride out a number of weeks/months/years before we run into a food scarcity issue. Other people clearly are not prepared and they'll be the one's out there doing what you defend, looting in order to feed their families. They'll also be the ones who get shot, who die or get injured from fighting other looters, and in the end those food supplies that do exist will have been picked clean by the the massive mob of looters, so when your time comes, after your supplies have been run down a few months later, and now it comes time for you to face the moral question of whether you will engage in looting to feed your family, the likelihood is quite high that this will be a theoretical question for you because there will be no food left in warehouses that is available to you to loot.


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## mojo4

After 2 to 3 weeks there is the most danger. Not enough time has passed yet to allow for the scum to deal with each other and the panic has fully set in. No resupply for the sheeple and just maybe american idol and the latest kardashian rumor crap isn't dominating peoples thought process. It goes from the mindless humming to the primal survival instinct kicking in so this is the time frame to lock and load and hunker down cause the next 3 to 4 months will be the most dangerous for all of us.


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## runningYank

seanallen said:


> Look. I know some of yall hate a looter. I totally understand. But im a realist. I know its gonna be dog eat dog. If your kids are starving because you cant feed them, are you gonna let them starve? Are you gonna stand on your moral principles and actually let your family starve to death? I dont think so. Those who get up on their soapbox and preach about how they are gonna do this or they are gonna do that after a SHTF event, cooperating with so and so, not going to scavenge or steal food or supplies. Ha!!! Probly havent been very hungry, have you? Well, i HAVE! im here to tell you that just a few days with no food and you will be a totally different person. These idealistic moral high grounds are meaningless when your stomach is knawing your backbone in half and the household pets are looking incredibly delicious. A few more days w/o food and you will be quite willing to kill someone else for their food. A few more days w/o food and most people would be willing to practice cannibalism. Extreme, DIRE hunger will turn a human into a cunning vicious animal.


I don't think most of the respondents are against "looting" in a long term :shtf: scenario; what they've been saying is that after only 2-3 weeks, it is inadvisable. I'll be more blunt and say that it is just plain stupid.

In the initial stages of an event, people will go crazy and buy up everything in sight; stores will clear of anything useful within the first day or 2. As things start to look desperate, Police/National Guard/Reservists will be moved in with SoS orders for looters. Police/military guards may be moved in to guard these vital (yes, vital) locations in very short order; remember state and national government will have a much better idea of how widespread the disaster is then you do. Depending on how chaotic things get, if there is no government protection, the owners and/or workers at the factory/warehouse will arm themselves to protect what is "theirs." Smart owners/top managers will encourage their friends and/or trusted workers to bring in their families and (literally) turn these places into fortresses - those living there will not only be defending their food supplies, but their families, so taking them will be like :brickwall:. In a widespread SHTF scenario, this will happen much faster, especially in a densely populated urban center

If no bailout happens, a few days into the Event, after the stores have been completely looted, for the unprepared (95+% of the population), those warehouses will become priority targets and battlefields. Even if poorly trained, with enough ammo, those in the buildings will be tough to root out. Depending on how dire the situation is, the government 'helpers' may force the owners/workers out and claim the bounty for themselves.

Most preppers will have several months of food stocked up, and lets face it, if you're scavenging that early either a) you aren't at home, b) you're one of the unprepared sheeple, c) had your home stash wiped out/destroyed, or d) you weren't able to defend your home stash - and by extension, probably don't have the resources to take (or hold) a factory/warehouse.

Realistically, after 2-3 weeks of a SHTF episode, your warehouses will either be either heavily guarded or completely looted (because defenses failed or supplies were appropriated by government).

So, once again, those on the site are saying this is a very bad idea that will most likely get you killed... and then you don't have to worry about eating again!


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## goshengirl

People make stupid decisions when they're hungry. That's one of the main reasons why my goal is to keep my family from being hungry for much, much longer than two to three weeks. It's hard to say exactly what SHTF will look like - we can make educated guesses, but they're still guesses. However, I think that after two to three weeks, looting will already have occurred, and it wouldn't be worth the risk of encountering the drowning sheeple to check out any place. Better to hunker down for the long haul and avoid places where we'd run the risk of getting killed.


ETA: I say 'drowning' sheeple, because in my mind, I see many people becoming desperate and grabbing at anything, much like a drowning person does.


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## zracer7

Given my current employment skills id walk to the nearest food warehouse and offer my services to provide security in exchange for goods. Thats how things will go anyways for a very long time post SHTF anyways; barter goods for services. And given the fact that there is a great possibility that the majority of the employees at a given warehouse have either no means of guarding or no experience in guarding a facility I believe that I would be an asset. Course this IS Texas and many people may have the means just not the experience. :wink:


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## seanallen

runningYank said:


> I don't think most of the respondents are against "looting" in a long term :shtf: scenario; what they've been saying is that after only 2-3 weeks, it is inadvisable. I'll be more blunt and say that it is just plain stupid.
> 
> In the initial stages of an event, people will go crazy and buy up everything in sight; stores will clear of anything useful within the first day or 2. As things start to look desperate, Police/National Guard/Reservists will be moved in with SoS orders for looters. Police/military guards may be moved in to guard these vital (yes, vital) locations in very short order; remember state and national government will have a much better idea of how widespread the disaster is then you do. Depending on how chaotic things get, if there is no government protection, the owners and/or workers at the factory/warehouse will arm themselves to protect what is "theirs." Smart owners/top managers will encourage their friends and/or trusted workers to bring in their families and (literally) turn these places into fortresses - those living there will not only be defending their food supplies, but their families, so taking them will be like :brickwall:. In a widespread SHTF scenario, this will happen much faster, especially in a densely populated urban center
> 
> If no bailout happens, a few days into the Event, after the stores have been completely looted, for the unprepared (95+% of the population), those warehouses will become priority targets and battlefields. Even if poorly trained, with enough ammo, those in the buildings will be tough to root out. Depending on how dire the situation is, the government 'helpers' may force the owners/workers out and claim the bounty for themselves.
> 
> Most preppers will have several months of food stocked up, and lets face it, if you're scavenging that early either a) you aren't at home, b) you're one of the unprepared sheeple, c) had your home stash wiped out/destroyed, or d) you weren't able to defend your home stash - and by extension, probably don't have the resources to take (or hold) a factory/warehouse.
> 
> Realistically, after 2-3 weeks of a SHTF episode, your warehouses will either be either heavily guarded or completely looted (because defenses failed or supplies were appropriated by government).
> 
> So, once again, those on the site are saying this is a very bad idea that will most likely get you killed... and then you don't have to worry about eating again!


Your timeline seems spot on. I know most of yall seem to think im considering, or advocating, looting or theft. No im not. The difference is im saying i most definately will do it if we are starving. As it stands we are good for half a year. If we are able to keep our stores. After that, only God lnows.


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## pops

So I am set at the momnet for about 4 months of food. I can fileter water and have a source in my backyard in the form of a wetland/pond.

My point is or was that if one does not act soon on additional oppertunities, that option will be lost in short order.

I am not out to injur anyone to gain access to these wharehouses of food goods. They are not clearly marked as to thier contents. And since they are owned by conglomerants I doubt that they would be patrolled by anyone.

To go a step further there is a camping world center a few miles away as well. Would I go and "borrow" a fully equiped RV and supplies from them? Perhaps.

If the world has sunk to a one on one scernario, I am looking out for my family and friends.

RV camp grounds would have large propane tanks. Harborfrieght tools just up the road has soalr panels.

Just looking into <out of the box> places that the hoards will not hit up first.

I am sure that ALL grocery stores, gas stations, pawn shops, gun shops and the like will be plundered first.

So I am looking at the lesser target places to patron.

Just food for thought. Not that I am unprepared, but I can always add to the preps.

THANKS to ALL for the replies thus far.

Pops


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## gabbyj310

I truthfully think by that time there will be "plenty" 0f people in deep deep trouble as far as food and all supplies go.The ones that are left will be us (as in "Preppers. Survivalist) and those who will kill ,rob and worse,I hope to be enough out of the "flow" to go un-noticed.I WILL have enough supplies to last much longer than that for sure..I would also say if you don't have it now I would start ASAP and stock well and quitely.Then if WE ever get back to being "not too crazy",then I would do the trade,barter thing but away from my "home"/BOL for reasons everyone knows.


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## tc556guy

I guess that would depend on the scenario and where you find yourself after 2-3 weeks, OP


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## BillM

In two or three weeks , we all are going to need something , even those of us who have prepaired. 

You will not anticipate everything.

The question will be , can I get by without this?.

The second question will be , is this worth risking my life for?

If the answer is no to the first question and yes to the second, go for it but I would have something to barter or trade for the item I would not just steal it.

If the answer is yes to the first question, I would not even ask the second, I'd just carry on without that item.


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## BillS

Most likely, two or three weeks after it hits the fan, there will be plenty of useful items in what's left of Wal-Mart, Lowe's, and Home Depot. It just depends on what you need. You might still find diapers at Wal-Mart. All kinds of hardware and lumber items at the other stores. I think looting will be concentrated in groceries, electronics, drugs, and jewelry.

Still, I'd consider it far too dangerous to go into a looted store that soon after it hits the fan. It would be much better to wait a few more months.


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## swjohnsey

Learn how to live off what normally would be considered cattle feed like sorghum and corn. Maybe get together with like minded folks in a cooperative to share meat. Looters are high in protein.


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## Woody

If you are missing something that cannot be done without for survival after only 2 or 3 weeks, you need to reevaluate your stores and what survival really is. If it is something like batteries or a way to charge a cell phone so be it, do without. If it is a lifesaving medicine than you need to get that sorted out now, not after a few weeks.

True most of us cannot anticipate every situation or need that will arise. But, we can plan to at least survive by stocking the basics for sustaining life. Food, water, shelter and protection. Dinner might be PB&J with no J, but we will have dinner! Water might be pond scum filtered through a tee shirt then a sand filter but we will have water. Shelter might be a cardboard box covered with plastic but we will have shelter. Protection might be a pointy stick but we will have… hopefully a lot of pointy sticks.

Can I anticipate that I will break a limb and need plaster for a cast? No, but I can have several ace bandages and a way to make a wooden splint. We will need to be creative and work around obstacles with items we do have, not cry over things we forgot or do not have.


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## biobacon

Cant live off soda and snack cakes? Did none of you go to college? LOL


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## MDsapper

i'll be heading to the gunsmithing school in february so hopefully nothing happens before then


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## BillS

Woody said:


> Water might be pond scum filtered through a tee shirt then a sand filter but we will have water.


Pond water can be very unhealthy. You could end up getting sick. And if you get diarrhea from bad water you could be in big trouble in a hurry if you don't have safe water to drink by then. If all you have to drink is pond water then you absolutely positively need to boil it first.

Water from a lake or a stream would be much safer.


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## swjohnsey

Nothin' in pond water that a filter and bleach won't take care of.


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## FrankW

Another consideration to the original post:

- In 2-3 weeks almost everyone will still be alive and not starved to death given how slowly a well fed person starves especially if he/she gets<anything> just a couple times a week.

- A good strategy might be to have enough food that you dont need to come out until the vast majority of people are either dead from starvation or so severely weakend they no longer pose a signifcant threat.

- How long will that take? 3 months or so I think.

- Functioning sustainable communities such as some farm towns will likely take in NO ONE at that point......Unless perhaps..... you have specials skills such as EMT, gunsmithing, blacksmithing or bring in a treasure in seeds or silver or guns/ammo.. ...or are a very attractive young woman who will always be able to find shelter


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## Bobbb

BlueZ said:


> - Functioning sustainable communities such as some farm towns will likely take in NO ONE at that point......Unless perhaps..... you have specials skills such as EMT, gunsmithing, blacksmithing or bring in a treasure in seeds or silver or guns/ammo.. ...*or are a very attractive young woman who will always be able to find shelter*


That likely won't make the farm wives in that farming town too happy.


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## FrankW

Bobbb said:


> That likely won't make the farm wives in that farming town too happy.


probably not. But someone will take her in regardless.
In any event that's probaly not a viable strategy for any of us here : )


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## swjohnsey

......................................WWJD?


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## ras1219como

biobacon said:


> Cant live off soda and snack cakes? Did none of you go to college? LOL


I lived on Ramen in college!


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## alwaysready

BlueZ said:


> probably not. But someone will take her in regardless.
> In any event that's probaly not a viable strategy for any of us here : )


Agreed it would likely make the SHTF seem like a pre-game warm up!


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## cowboyhermit

Aww, come on, like no guy on here is planning a harem to repopulate the world after TSHTF? Do you really think your S.O would not understand?

"Thump!" 
Cowboyhermit lays face down on his keyboard never to be heard from again.


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## TheLazyL

So it's now 2 - 3 weeks After the SHTF


Most of the country neighbors have moved out. Some headed North, some South, some to be with their children and the others?

A few stopped to say goodbye and asked us to keep an eye on their place. The ones that remained, we got together to get organized. 

Trees were accidently dropped across the access roads.

Barb wire got repurposed from some of the farms and restrung at likely walk-in access points.

Alternators and batteries from the left behind equipment were salvaged for powers sources for communications. Suggestion was in the near future, a party makes the day walk to the nearest State Highway, see if any solar cells can be “borrowed” from traffic signals. 

Each household was given their own temporary radio call name. Some type of rotating codes will need to be established and strongly adhered to. One of the teenage boys was assigned this task.

Some off the remaining neighbor’s ethics are not known. Because of this a low level inquiry about weapons and food inventory was conducted. A shotgun with a box of shells was “loaned” to a family that said they didn’t have any protection.

A discussion about shrinking our perimeter by consolidating the remaining families in to 2 or 3 of the centrally located homes was discussed. At this time no one was willing to abandon their homes. It was decided that a roaming guard team of 2 at night and 1 man guard posts at the access roads during the day was all our resources could handle. The only warning system that could be implemented quickly was cans of compressed air with attached air horns. Hopefully the nearest house would hear the alarm and could relay it on to the next house and so on. Unfortunately this warning system would give our position away but with blasts coming throughout the country might make us seem larger than what we are?

Ladies were tasked with visiting each abandon home and perform an inventory of food stuffs, weapons, clothing etc. At this time items will be left where found. One of the outlying neighbors was opposed to storing it in a centrally located home. My wife is on this team, I don’t like the idea of leaving weapons laying around, so if the ladies find any, I and a like minded neighbor will go back tonight and store them in a safer location.

We had several competing for “Leader” of our group. Majority decided let’s meet again in a week, review the past week’s experience and revisit the “Leadership” position along with positions for Security Officer, Food management, Mechanical Officer and Medical Officer and who/how they report to. 

Consensus was that things will return to normal in another week. I think this was based on hopefully thinking not on reality.

My impression is that we will lose 1 or 2 more families before the next meeting...if we manage to survive that long…


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## invision

Since I am of the mindset of an economic collapse - I have the following ideas in place...

Let me also state First off, since I am constantly following macroeconomic data - I hope to see the signs early enough.. the only debt we have right now is 3 car payments, the house payment, and revolving credit card debt of $1-3,000 a month which is paid off every month... with that said, I have 4 credit cards each having a max limit over $50,000 sitting in a the gun safe downstairs. When I start to hear just the basic blurb of food or gas shortages or even talk about another "bail-out" or the stock market hits automatic stop triggers - I will start really organizing - first is to take the SUV over to the local Publix/Krogers/WalMart with those 4 cards and I will "add to" my existing food storage which is in my estimate 1-1.5 years. Secondly I have a "wish list of things" like a hand held gas pump and they have wood cook stoves at the store... that are in stock year round at the local Tractor Supply store - which is right next to the Krogers... So I would be making a stop there too... I have a good friend who runs the pharmacy at the one Kroger's store... I would try my damnedest also to get as many prescription antibiotics, blood pressure, and diabetic pills as possible from him... BTW - he isn't a sheeple either... so there is a good chance of a score there... Also, on the way to this same area, there is a farm house that has had a sign in front of it that sales - chickens, rabbits and veggies for sale - they have a little road side stand - so I would buy every chicken and rabbit they had in stock that was for sale... One other thought is we do have a survival store about 10 miles from the house... I would definitely make one trip there and buy every bit of the mountain house/wise product they had in stock that would fill my SUV... My basic mindset is IF I KNOW that this is the moment I have been planning for, and I can SEE it coming with just enough warning - I can use those Cards to grab everything I haven't gotten yet as quickly as possible and far enough out possible too... as for "paying them off" - if I am right - it won't matter, if I am wrong - I have paid off $35,000 in one year before, I can pay it off again...

Now, let me repeat the above action plan is PRE -"TRUE" shtf hopefully a month before it gets "bad"... 

In regards to now it has been 2-3 weeks after all hell has broken loose - I live in a 20-30 home subdivision in a area considered "fringe rural"... I sure more than half would pack up and head elsewhere... yes, I would know who is leaving and who isn't. So abandoned houses would be searched and inventoried and consolidated. Sheeple who are in a panic and leaving out for family/friends are going to leave behind some good stuff, everything from non-essential gold and silver jewerly to extra food stores "since they are sheeple" and believe that either their friends/family will have it better or the government will step in... they aren't going to be packing every can good or box of noodles - every one of these houses for example also has at LEAST 2 50 gallon water heaters - So if 50% leave (which I think is low) means we have an additional 1,500 gallons of water to collect and store... Yes, I would start to organize the remaining neighbors - security being number 1 priority and I would also be calling in my core group of friends here either by phone or using the HAM radios that we all have (and tested) as primary spot with 2 backup locations up near the mountains of N Georgia. Each of my friends has at least a 6 month supply of food for each mouth, all have at least one AR15 and minimum of 2,000 rounds, all have either a truck or large SUV, and all have extra gas stored for emergency. There are two reasons why I would want that many here - 1 everyone in the group shoots and understands basic security and security would be our biggest concern from day zero to 3 months out I figure... #2 everyone is of the same mindset and would realize just how dangerous this is going to get.

One reason to use this area as a location - we are sort of secluded here "off the beaten path" - second every home has more than an arce of flat land - one home sits on a 4 acre lot, ours is just shy of 2 acres. 2 homes have inground pools that are salt not chemical - depending on time of year, planting would start ASAP, also to get a good start with first time planting with as many as 30 horse farms around here, manure should be plentiful in regards to planting... I have close to 1M seeds in storage right now... So bartering would be established with the nearest farm (less than a mile) as quickly as possible. Also every house on my side of the 1 road subdivision backs up to 46 acres of woods which has a stream which feeds a 6 acre lake 2 miles away... So water source is ok... firewood source is there... as well as deer, rabbits, and squirrels are plentiful in this area... 

Now... on to scavaging... I hope to get the rest of my stuff right before SHTF economically... if something else were to happen - say EMC or solar flare - well I do have 1.5 years of food on hand... I do have arms and ammo... I do have ways to secure the basement from intrusion... I would make the house look as abandoned from the outside as possible... and I would try to hunker down and keep my family safe... I have a coleman cook stove down there, and I do have 3 full bottles of propane with the attachment for the coleman - so hot food wouldn't be an issue - the other thing I would do immediately is build a smoker and start smoking everything meat-wise in the freezer as possilbe... I wouldn't be out scavaging 2-3 three weeks post... I would probably start after 2-3 months... trying to find out who is still around, what the situation is, looking for barter looking for abandoned items...

As for looting - if it is inhabitted, hell no.. bartering is the way to go... if it is "left empty" then if it can help my family, finders keepers... my thought is - 1 why let it go to waste - 2 it is only going to help me and my family, and perhaps others in my group.. and final note - I wouldn't look down on anyone scavaging to stay alive, I think everyone will have to do that eventually no matter what...


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## FrankW

Sounds like you are well set.

One food for though:
If you make your house look abandoned and "left empty" what about the people who might come in looking for "legitimate" scavenging" just like you did with others,.. what would you do?


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## kappydell

I wont let kids starve, but I don't have to steal to do it. For pity's sake, haven't y'all learned YET about wild plants, game (even alternate types), working for food, or barter. Good grief. Looting will get one shot. So will squatting on someone else's property. As for firing on intruders at long range, that is not 'self defense' that is murder. Wake up and smell the roses - then pick the hips.


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## GrinnanBarrett

If two to three weeks have passed several things will have taken place. For one stores will be empty, stripped clean first by buyers in a panic and then by looters. What is left will be under martial law locked down and allocated by the ruling parties. 

People will be standing in lines waiting for help. A major way of controlling a population is to have people stand in line expecting help. They will turn on each other when someone breaks into the line or jumps numbers. Handing out numbers is just another line gimmick used to placate the masses. You can move people from one line to another until they begin to question what is going on. those who question too much are removed to a special line for special treatment. 

In two to three weeks the black market will be very active and booming. Here you stand a chance of real harm coming to you. When you deal with scum it tends to rub off and you also can be rubbed out. 

In two to three weeks the big die off starts. The elderly and sick are running out of medicine and generators at nursing homes and hospitals are running out of fuel. There will be facilities that have power longer but those will be reserved for special cases determined by triage teams. Don't expect that you will get any special attention. Also those with long term medical needs like meds for cancer, heart, seizures, etc. will start to run out since none of them are kept in supply by the individuals or the pharmacies around them. Most people do not have more than a thirty day supply of meds at best. Those dependent on insulin will be really hard hit. 

If food does get through by truck it will be allocated by the authorities. I still have ration coupons from WW2 my parents had. If you have a garden it may be taken over by the same folks. If they can see it consider it gone. 

If you can last out two months a lot of people will have left the gene pool. Trading will be a big deal. Looters that are left will face tough times as the survivors are armed and very dangerous.


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## TheLazyL

kappydell said:


> I wont let kids starve, but I don't have to steal to do it. For pity's sake, haven't y'all learned YET about wild plants, game (even alternate types), working for food, or barter. Good grief. Looting will get one shot. So will squatting on someone else's property. As for firing on intruders at long range, that is not 'self defense' that is murder. Wake up and smell the roses - then pick the hips.


Your post reminds me of a story.

Scavenger was hungry, house looked abandoned and two graves in the backyard. He had to force the door, Owner must have left in hurry, family pictures still on the fire place mantel. A man, wife and their son?

As the Scavenger searched the house he had this gut feeling he was being watched. So he sat down away from the living widow so he could watch the front. Wasn't that some movement over there by the tree line? Scavenger carefully moved upstairs to see if he could get a better view. YES! He could see part of a body and a rifle pointing at the house. Someone was waiting to ambush him when he left the house! Window was already opened, he would just shoot thru the screen. Aim carefully, hold breath, and squeeze slowly... BANG! The body goes slump.

Scavenger waits an hour before going out the back door, into the woods to sweep up from behind. Ambusher may be just playing possum.

Scavenger can't believe his eyes. Ambusher is about 12 years old, a 22 rifle and with 3 dead squirrels in a pouch. Ambusher's face&#8230;where&#8230;the family picture, in the house on the mantel, the graves the boy's parents!

The Scavenger has become the Looter&#8230;


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## MDsapper

well thats a good lesson to not expose yourself when setting up an ambush


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## TheLazyL

MDsapper said:


> well thats a good lesson to not expose yourself when setting up an ambush


Well you see the 12 year old boy wasn't a Ambusher! He was just returning from squirrel hunting when he saw a stranger in his house!


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## MDsapper

TheLazyL said:


> YES! He could see part of a body and a rifle pointing at the house. Someone was waiting to ambush him when he left the house! Window was already opened, he would just shoot thru the screen. Aim carefully, hold breath, and squeeze slowly... BANG! The body goes slump.


if the kid was just walking he would'nt have his rifle pointing at the house. so what i take from this story is that the kid noticed movement in the house and he set up an observation point but he left part of himself exposed and he got shot. so moral of the story when you set up an op make sure you are completly hidden


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## BillM

*Well*



MDsapper said:


> if the kid was just walking he would'nt have his rifle pointing at the house. so what i take from this story is that the kid noticed movement in the house and he set up an observation point but he left part of himself exposed and he got shot. so moral of the story when you set up an op make sure you are completly hidden


Well, I don't realy think it was the moral of the story but there you go ! There may be another lesson there?


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## ZangLussuria

Read that story. A good one.


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## invision

BlueZ said:


> Sounds like you are well set.
> 
> One food for though:
> If you make your house look abandoned and "left empty" what about the people who might come in looking for "legitimate" scavenging" just like you did with others,.. what would you do?


That is a good question... For me it would be a verbal warning, the a warning shot.. Î know making the house look abandon may invite scavengers, but a house left alone may be a bigger concern for raiders... Which would be worse?


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## BillM

The thing to do is to make your house look occupied but not some place anyone would want to enter.

I would start with a sign on the front door that said,

Caution !
Bloodborn Pathigen 
Protection Required
Active Aids Paitent

I would place a couple of red hazardous material bags on the front porch , overflowing with smelly bloody bandages and dipers, right by the front door.

If people knocked on the door I would ask them for food if they had any.

That would make strangers pass my house by.

You want yourself and your property to appear as devistated or worse than the norm.


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## ras1219como

BillM said:


> The thing to do is to make your house look occupied but not some place anyone would want to enter.
> 
> I would start with a sign on the front door that said,
> 
> Caution !
> Bloodborn Pathigen
> Protection Required
> Active Aids Paitent
> 
> I would place a couple of red hazardous material bags on the front porch , overflowing with smelly bloody bandages and dipers, right by the front door.
> 
> If people knocked on the door I would ask them for food if they had any.
> 
> That would make strangers pass my house by.
> 
> You want yourself and your property to appear as devistated or worse than the norm.


This is actually a really good idea. It's similar to having a beware of dog sign or ADT sign now. It won't stop everyone but it definitely decreases your chances of being targeted because people will always take the path of least resistance.


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## LincTex

How about a sign that says: "If you can read this, I am watching you through my crosshairs" ?


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## Woody

LincTex said:


> How about a sign that says: "If you can read this, I am watching you through my crosshairs" ?


Or:

This is the distance I am sighted in for.

Hold still for just a second.

Right about now you should hear a big bang.

Or perhaps a piece of plywood with a used target on it, attached to your door.


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## ras1219como

Woody said:


> Or:
> 
> This is the distance I am sighted in for.
> 
> Hold still for just a second.
> 
> Right about now you should hear a big bang.
> 
> Or perhaps a piece of plywood with a used target on it, attached to your door.


It's the shot you don't hear that gets ya....


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## BillS

BillM said:


> The thing to do is to make your house look occupied but not some place anyone would want to enter.
> 
> I would start with a sign on the front door that said,
> 
> Caution !
> Bloodborn Pathigen
> Protection Required
> Active Aids Paitent
> 
> I would place a couple of red hazardous material bags on the front porch , overflowing with smelly bloody bandages and dipers, right by the front door.
> 
> If people knocked on the door I would ask them for food if they had any.
> 
> That would make strangers pass my house by.
> 
> You want yourself and your property to appear as devistated or worse than the norm.


It sounds like a good idea but I don't think anyone would fall for that.


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## Griff

pops said:


> Where do you go for additional supplies?
> 
> Tractor supply? Farm and Feed store? Warehouses?
> 
> I have a Pepsi warehouse and a snack goods warehouse near me.
> 
> Tractor supply & Farm and feed have grains bulk dog food propane etc.
> 
> What are your thoughts?


We have a couple of local country stores, guess you could call them Mom and Pop shops, that would probably still be selling gas, hardware, animal feed and such to those who are good customers. Given local small-town rules and conditions, they probably wouldn't have much the local "authorities" would have a reason (or opportunity) to confiscate, if you know what I mean.

If things went down hard, I imagine it wouldn't be too long until barter and trade arrangements would come out in the open, with cash becoming secondary. Lots of people doing whatever it takes to make ends meet already. Stores could become more like trading posts, with a cut for the house. If so, they'd probably be even bigger community centers than they are now.


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## Padre

*Perhaps a larger question thsn you realize!*

I


pops said:


> Where do you go for additional supplies?
> 
> What are your thoughts?


So what are you asking? Where do you go to buy/trade stuff? Where do you go to scavenge?

I am of the opinion that you MAY be able to stock up during the early HOURS (perhaps days) of a SHTF depending on your locale, but 2 weeks in would be the worst time to stock up. Two weeks in, in most places, the world will become a war zone, as the upreppare get desperate and criminals realize there is no rule of law.
So the first thing to do is to use all your credit, checks, cash to buy as much as you can if the situation allows EARLY on in a SHTF!

Now, if you live in a VERY small community there may be a farmers market an local security enough to make ttading a possibility two weeks in, but personally IF POSSIBLE I would wait till everyone in on the same page and a new normal has been established.

That said... stuff happens and if you became separated from your supplies I would avoid any of the normal--Easy--sources of food/supplies. Instead I would check out schools and nursing homes, both which will likely be abandoned two weeks in. Also, if you live near water I would consider boats and marinas. These could be easily overlooked, often owners live far from where their boats are moored, and many boats, particularly larger ones, have food storage and water tanks aboard. Finally... what about pet stores? Sure you could eat the dog/cat food but I was thinking more about the dogs, cats, and guinea pigs themselves... although this too may be a better week one source. Likewise what about a zoo, both for the game as well as the food stored there, or perhaps a theme park, or theater? Just so.e thoughts.


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## crabapple

biobacon said:


> Cant live off soda and snack cakes? Did none of you go to college? LOL


Or High School, I know one family that does not like vegetables & eats a lot of junk food daily.

But I agree that one should have enough food for a year, at least, 5 years is more on scale with prepping.
And to hide from the people outside of your home, you should eat only one small meal a day so you will always be hungry. Everyone will be hungry around you, you should be too. If you are not hungry, then you have food & they are going to come & get it.
At the 3 week mark a lot of people will be dead or moved out in search of food.
But some will still be around or moving in in search of food.


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## HardCider

2-3 weeks after the shtf in the country nothing has changed. 2-3 weeks in the city, they are freaking out and half killing each other. And starting to leave the cities. Loot in the cities and you may get away with it. Come to loot the countryside, good luck to you. Most city folks these days would walk right past available food and water sources and wouldn't even know it


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## readytogo

Florida Power and Light, the largest electricity utility in the state, reported more than 3,241,000 customers had lost power; equivalent to approximately 6,000,000 people. 2005 Wilma was blamed for at least 61 deaths, 35 of those direct and the remaining 26 indirect. Damage in Florida totaled $20.6 billion, making Wilma the costliest hurricane in the state since Hurricane Andrew in 1992.And some 3 weeks later no power to many but no major riots or shootings, no roaming gangs of arm individuals breaking into homes or businesses, and the same thing happen after Andrew in 92, the only thing roaming around loaded for war was the National Guard and riot police units to keep order during curfew hours. After my family was secured and set I hit the road in convoys full of water, food and donated items with many other volunteers under full military escort nothing happen like it has been portray here or in many other forums and I lived in a major city folks .We`ll never see a Mad-Max scenario in this country, to many private guns out there but I have witness human kindness at its best during times of need and pain and yes we have evil around all of us but togetherness is the key in surviving and having some form of emergency supplies will increase your chances even more.


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## terri9630

Since then there's been Katrina, Ferguson, Baltimore, and many other places that are having riots. I have no faith that people now a days will "follow law and order".


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## oldasrocks

readytogo said:


> Florida Power and Light, the largest electricity utility in the state, reported more than 3,241,000 customers had lost power; equivalent to approximately 6,000,000 people. 2005 Wilma was blamed for at least 61 deaths, 35 of those direct and the remaining 26 indirect. Damage in Florida totaled $20.6 billion, making Wilma the costliest hurricane in the state since Hurricane Andrew in 1992.And some 3 weeks later no power to many but no major riots or shootings, no roaming gangs of arm individuals breaking into homes or businesses, and the same thing happen after Andrew in 92, the only thing roaming around loaded for war was the National Guard and riot police units to keep order during curfew hours. After my family was secured and set I hit the road in convoys full of water, food and donated items with many other volunteers under full military escort nothing happen like it has been portray here or in many other forums and I lived in a major city folks .We`ll never see a Mad-Max scenario in this country, to many private guns out there but I have witness human kindness at its best during times of need and pain and yes we have evil around all of us but togetherness is the key in surviving and having some form of emergency supplies will increase your chances even more.


So envision a scene where an EMP hit. No donations of food coming in. No roaming Guards men.

If people can see the problem is to be short lived they relax and wait. That may change a lot if the time and outcome is not known.


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## HardCider

If the grid was completely down, there would be a total vacuum of information. no news, no idea of what was going on, if help was on the way, nothing. People would freak out. We are all so conditioned to information and ready food and water, but if you had plenty of fresh water, 2 weeks without food is not fatal for most if one was mentally prepared for it.


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## AmishHeart

Get your ham radio license and make friends to talk to. (smiley face).


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## HardCider

Good point and I'm working on that sooner or later. Right now working mostly on the farm/food development and personal development.


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