# The U.S. Dollar Collapse Is Accelerating



## BillS




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## machinist

I agree that the dollar is headed down and going faster now (just check prices for what you buy), but I think the reason behind the Euro going up relative to the dollar is probably the Fed supporting the Euro. Europe has a more immediate problem than the US does in this global crisis, so the Fed and other central banks are probably trying to plug that hole in the dike at this time.

Our turn is coming, though, and not all that far behind Europe. Japan has a much higher govt. debt-to-GDP ratio than the US, and some think they will be next after europe, with the US being tail end Charlie in the race to the bottom. I would be afraid to bet on what order things fall apart, but I have no doubt that they will, and not too far off now.

The guy in the video is right that the Fed is willfully destroying the dollar. They are devaluing the dollar because the only other choice for them is to choke off govt. credit and allow the whole financial system to implode.

Alan Greenspan told us quite some time ago how they would handle this:





So, like Greenspan said, the US won't default, they will PRINT MONEY to pay their bonds and other obligations. I'll still get my Sociable Insecurity check, but it probably won't buy much of anything.
________________
China is not too happy about the flagrant printing, either: 
http://www.zerohedge.com/contribute...ened-currency-war-if-fed-doesnt-stop-printing

A quote from that article:
"A senior Chinese official said on Friday that the United States should cut back on printing money to stimulate its economy if the world is to have confidence in the dollar. Asked whether he was worried about the dollar, the chairman of China's sovereign wealth fund, the China Investment Corporation, Jin Liqun, told the World Economic Forum in Davos: "I am a little bit worried."

"There will be no winners in currency wars. But it is important for a central bank that the money goes to the right place," Li said.

Speaking at the same session, French Finance Minister Pierre Moscovici voiced concern that the euro was becoming overvalued as a result of quantitative easing and other stimulus actions taken by other nations' central banks."

End Quote
_____________________

That tells the tale as to why the Euro is going up--other central banks, including the Fed, are devaluing and making the Euro look like the least-ugly pig in the pen.


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## UncleJoe

I saw an interview with Greg Mannarino last August on http://usawatchdog.com/ I may have even posted it here but here it is again.


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## Dude111

machinist said:


> The guy in the video is right that the Fed is willfully destroying the dollar.


Yes its been Obamas plan ALL ALONG!!!!! (Its part of the NWO)


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## hiwall

It is impossible to find any optimist news.


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## faithmarie

strange little man... but I thought I would post it .... Hope thats okay


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## Gravlore

hiwall said:


> It is impossible to find any optimist news.


A 'collapse' may not be a bad thing as long as the FED is abolished. The current state of affairs is complete BS and central bankers rule the people and government. The sooner this rule comes to an end the better. I consider this a good thing.

20 years ago when teachers in school were saying 'save your money for retirement', I was saying 'why, most currencies die within 40 years and then we have some sort of reset'. I will fund my retirement 10 years before retirement during a downturn. Until then I am buying items with intrinsic value and not some man made value.

This 'collapse' should come as no surprise to those who understand debt and the money system. I will save ONLY if we have an Austrian economic form of money since it values savers and not spenders. Consumption is what Keynesian's rely on and we all know that resources are finite and will dwindle over time.

Fear is what makes this system stay on life support. It will end with a collapse or some severe devaluation. Let the currency wars commence.


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## machinist

I couldn't have said it better! :2thumb:


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## PreparedRifleman73

Gravlore said:


> I will save ONLY if we have an Austrian economic form of money since it values savers and not spenders.


Could you elaborate on that a little? I didn't realize Austria's economy valued savers? Is it through taxation policies?


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## Marcus

hawkmiles said:


> Could you elaborate on that a little? I didn't realize Austria's economy valued savers? Is it through taxation policies?


I believe he is referring to the Austrian school of economic policy as opposed to the Keynesian school of economic policy.


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## faithmarie

You I don't know anything about this stuff but I thought someone who knows finances might find him interesting.... ?


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## UncleJoe

hawkmiles said:


> Could you elaborate on that a little? I didn't realize Austria's economy valued savers? Is it through taxation policies?





Marcus said:


> I believe he is referring to the Austrian school of economic policy as opposed to the Keynesian school of economic policy.


http://mises.org/etexts/austrian.asp

The story of the Austrian School begins in the fifteenth century, when the followers of St. Thomas Aquinas, writing and teaching at the University of Salamanca in Spain, sought to explain the full range of human action and social organization.

These Late Scholastics observed the existence of economic law, inexorable forces of cause and effect that operate very much as other natural laws. Over the course of several generations, they discovered and explained the laws of supply and demand, the cause of inflation, the operation of foreign exchange rates, and the subjective nature of economic value--all reasons Joseph Schumpeter celebrated them as the first real economists.

The Late Scholastics were advocates of property rights and the freedom to contract and trade. They celebrated the contribution of business to society, while doggedly opposing taxes, price controls, and regulations that inhibited enterprise. As moral theologians, they urged governments to obey ethical strictures against theft and murder. And they lived up to Ludwig von Mises's rule: the first job of an economist is to tell governments what they cannot do.


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## Marcus

hiwall said:


> It is impossible to find any optimist news.


On January 21st, PamsPride had this book as one of her free daily Kindle downloads: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...mp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B00B2B6U2I

In it, the author talks a bit about the prophecies of Saint Malachy, an Irish monk born in 1094. According to St. Malachy, there will be 112 popes starting with Celestine III.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1911272/posts
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/malachy.htm

Pope Benedict XVI was number 111. Number 112 is described as Petrus Romanus or Peter (the) Roman. So it'll be interesting to see if an Italian is elected as the new pope (and supposedly last pope.)


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## lazydaisy67

So that's all neat and everything, but if I take my money out of the bank, what am I going to pay my bills with?  For us 'po folk who don't have huge investment portfollios, it's literally just a matter of closing a checking account. The only other thing we would have would be my husbands profit sharing account which, we have been told, we cannot touch. I have to assume we will never see that money. Yes, I can get silver coins, but again, that doesn't pay my electricity bill this month.


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## Tirediron

lazydaisy67 said:


> So that's all neat and everything, but if I take my money out of the bank, what am I going to pay my bills with? For us 'po folk who don't have huge investment portfollios, it's literally just a matter of closing a checking account. The only other thing we would have would be my husbands profit sharing account which, we have been told, we cannot touch. I have to assume we will never see that money. Yes, I can get silver coins, but again, that doesn't pay my electricity bill this month.


basicly all anyone can do is convert any discretionary cash into durable goods that would help you after said crash.


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## k0xxx

Gravlore said:


> A 'collapse' may not be a bad thing as long as the FED is abolished. The current state of affairs is complete BS and central bankers rule the people and government. The sooner this rule comes to an end the better. I consider this a good thing...(snip)


vract:

I am of a differing opinion. I believe that it will be a bad thing. A very bad thing. That's not saying that I believe it will, or even can, be avoided at this time, Just that I believe that we will be witnessing the end of America as we have known it. I believe that the coming chaos will result in a loss of the rest of the freedoms that we still have.

There are many who say "Let it collapse and we will rebuild it right". I'm just optimistic enough to believe that will happen. History has shown that once a generation loses freedom, they never see it again. I also believe that it will be the end of the western world as a dominant force, as all of the western countries have become debtors nations. This is going to be bad, and it will be bad for many generations to come.

_Now that the cryings over, I'm hungry. Anyone up for pizza?_


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## Gravlore

Thought I would put it as simple as possible. At least this is my take on it.


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## Gravlore

k0xxx said:


> vract:
> 
> I am of a differing opinion. I believe that it will be a bad thing. A very bad thing. That's not saying that I believe it will, or even can, be avoided at this time, Just that I believe that we will be witnessing the end of America as we have known it. I believe that the coming chaos will result in a loss of the rest of the freedoms that we still have.
> 
> There are many who say "Let it collapse and we will rebuild it right". I'm just optimistic enough to believe that will happen. History has shown that once a generation loses freedom, they never see it again. I also believe that it will be the end of the western world as a dominant force, as all of the western countries have become debtors nations. This is going to be bad, and it will be bad for many generations to come.
> 
> _Now that the cryings over, I'm hungry. Anyone up for pizza?_


It already is bad. Like 48 Million on food stamps is good? We are based on a system of servitude to those with the money. My dream is a 0% land tax and if you want to supply yourself with your needs without gaining outside wealth you should be able to do so without someone swiping your land.

Opting for government programs and not paying that portion of tax. This collectivist ******** we have been shoveled for decades has to end.

Wouldnt it be nice if we had counties running everything and not countries? You elect sheriffs in the States so why not keep that at the highest form of government? If simplicity of trade and military is the motive to have a nation rather than counties running the show, then perhaps nations should become one large global nation since larger is better and that would make trade even easier. At what point do we lose our individuality to 'something larger'? I have 0 in common with the east of my country but yet I am supposed to think like them and support them because I should feel 'patriotic' to some collectivist ideal of what a nation is.

Screw that. I love my neighbors and my town but outside of about 200 people I just dont care since they are faces without names to me. Tribalism vs Nationalism. This (tribalism) is what representation (congress) is supposed to be in a nation but alas Americans are in some perverse corporate, special interest run donkey and elephant show. I just wish more Americans gave a crap about their country as much as I, an outsider does.

In Canada our MLA's are the same way. They are all in Ottawa and it is all but impossible to sit down and talk to one of their constituents. Write a letter or call is complete crap. As a Canadian I care a great deal about how things play out in the States and that is why I care and have an opinion on the issue. The fallout could very well effect us here.

So yeah, I say let it collapse since there is so little space and so much shit.


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## Tacitus

Tirediron said:


> basicly all anyone can do is convert any discretionary cash into durable goods that would help you after said crash.


What do you mean by durable goods, exactly?

Cars? That truck I've been thinking about? But I don't want payments. I'm assuming debt is bad. Or, at least debt that has a variable rate that will go up with inflation. Now, a real estate loan on the other hand....

Maybe that new refrigerator and new air conditioning system my wife might want? Or, maybe that wood stove or the generator I've been thinking about?

Silver probably ok.

Sell my stocks to buy these things?


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## k0xxx

Gravlore said:


> (snip)...So yeah, I say let it collapse since there is so little space and so much shit.


Ok, after reading what I have written and before you (whoever "you" are) read the following, I feel that I must add this preface: I am not singling out Gravlore, but responding to all of those that feel a collapse will be a good thing. Be aware that it's late, I'm ill, and feeling a bit grumpy at the moment. So please don't take it as anything but the feverish rantings of a pessimistic and crotchety old man. I hope that it makes sense, but my eyes are to blurry to know for sure.

:ranton:

Be careful, you may get what you wish for, at least as far as collapse. I believe that a collapse in the US will be followed by great social upheaval similar to what we are seeing in Greece, but on a scale many times greater. We (at least here in the US) have raised two generations that feel entitled to instant gratification and government handouts. Said generations have been taught in public schools that succeeding is bad, that capitalism is bad, and the socialism/Marxism is the way to prosperity for all.

As our currency collapses and those that are government dependent find themselves unable to buy food, and without their free cell phones/internet/etc., the looting will make the LA riots pale in comparison. One's first thought may be that this is a good thing, as many parasites will kill each other off, but a great many good people will suffer and die along with the bad.

Like Argentina, we would see crimes like roadblock robberies and home invasions increase dramatically. At the same time that crime is increasing and people are in need of defending themselves, in an effort to "stop the violence," the government would begin with draconian gun laws and followed by wholesale gun confiscation. Those that refuse to turn in their guns risk that when caught, they would be looked upon as an enemy to the government and be felons looking at a long prison term.

Unfortunately, most of the western world is in the same boat. The western world was made prosperous through capitalism, but over the last 40 years it has over promised public benefits in an effort to achieve a form of socialist utopia, to the point where we have gone from the largest lender nations, to the largest debtor nations. When the truth finally arrives, I'm afraid the deaths and the loss of freedoms will leave many wondering what happened.

So yes, let it fail. There is a slim chance that you could see a new and more free society rise out of the ashes, but don't count on it. In the history of man, the "Grand Experiment" of freedom has been around only briefly. After the first generation is raised in whatever follows, be it socialism or a dictatorship, freedom will probably be lost for many generations, if not forever.

:rantoff:


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## Bobbb

Gravlore said:


> My dream is a 0% land tax and if you want to supply yourself with your needs without gaining outside wealth you should be able to do so without someone swiping your land.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if such a proposal was implemented then you would benefit from it.

When proposing tax policy the goal should be to propose what is best for society, not what is best for ourselves. Who listens to a rich man arguing for a reduction in taxes or a hunter arguing for no hunting licensing to be in place or for a long distance trucker who wants to eliminate taxes on 18-wheelers?


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## PackerBacker

k0xxx said:


> Ok, after reading what I have written and before you (whoever "you" are) read the following, I feel that I must add this preface: I am not singling out Gravlore, but responding to all of those that feel a collapse will be a good thing. Be aware that it's late, I'm ill, and feeling a bit grumpy at the moment. So please don't take it as anything but the feverish rantings of a pessimistic and crotchety old man. I hope that it makes sense, but my eyes are to blurry to know for sure.
> 
> :ranton:
> 
> Be careful, you may get what you wish for, at least as far as collapse. I believe that a collapse in the US will be followed by great social upheaval similar to what we are seeing in Greece, but on a scale many times greater. We (at least here in the US) have raised two generations that feel entitled to instant gratification and government handouts. Said generations have been taught in public schools that succeeding is bad, that capitalism is bad, and the socialism/Marxism is the way to prosperity for all.
> 
> As our currency collapses and those that are government dependent find themselves unable to buy food, and without their free cell phones/internet/etc., the looting will make the LA riots pale in comparison. One's first thought may be that this is a good thing, as many parasites will kill each other off, but a great many good people will suffer and die along with the bad.
> 
> Like Argentina, we would see crimes like roadblock robberies and home invasions increase dramatically. At the same time that crime is increasing and people are in need of defending themselves, in an effort to "stop the violence," the government would begin with draconian gun laws and followed by wholesale gun confiscation. Those that refuse to turn in their guns risk that when caught, they would be looked upon as an enemy to the government and be felons looking at a long prison term.
> 
> Unfortunately, most of the western world is in the same boat. The western world was made prosperous through capitalism, but over the last 40 years it has over promised public benefits in an effort to achieve a form of socialist utopia, to the point where we have gone from the largest lender nations, to the largest debtor nations. When the truth finally arrives, I'm afraid the deaths and the loss of freedoms will leave many wondering what happened.
> 
> So yes, let it fail. There is a slim chance that you could see a new and more free society rise out of the ashes, but don't count on it. In the history of man, the "Grand Experiment" of freedom has been around only briefly. After the first generation is raised in whatever follows, be it socialism or a dictatorship, freedom will probably be lost for many generations, if not forever.
> 
> :rantoff:


Let the revolution begin.

It's inevitable. The sooner it starts the better for everyone. Even those sucking gov't teat.


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## BillS

Gravlore said:


> A 'collapse' may not be a bad thing as long as the FED is abolished. The current state of affairs is complete BS and central bankers rule the people and government. The sooner this rule comes to an end the better. I consider this a good thing.


So what do you think will happen during a collapse? I expect no one to have a job. Stores will be closed. There will be no goods transported across the country. There will be no police or fire protection or electricity or public water. There will be massive rioting and looting. Rape, robbery, murder, and starvation on a massive scale. When it's all over I expect at least 250 million Americans to die. Probably closer to 300 million.


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## PackerBacker

BillS said:


> There will be no police protection


When seconds count the cops are only minutes away.


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## Woody

Tacitus said:


> What do you mean by durable goods, exactly?


Things you will need and might not be able to get.

The banks go on holiday or your electronic cash does not work. Do you have some fiat money at home to make purchases with? Stores close or the supply chain is disrupted. You will have to rely on what you have in your possession to make do. Maybe for a day, week, month or longer? When the fiat money boondoggle goes south, those dollars will be worth zilch. Did you spend them while they were still 'worth' something?

How many rolls of toilet paper do you have on hand? Could you go a day, week, month, year or more if it was not available? Food supply is interrupted, how long could you hold out with what you have at hand? You need to put in a garden, do you have seeds? Do you have manual tools to work the earth? If one breaks can you fix it? Do you have tools to fix things? Do you have a way to get clean drinking water? Do you have a way to store it after it is made safe to drink?

Besides that look at what inflation has been doing lately. That 12 pack of TP I paid $3.99 for a year or two ago is now $5.99 ON SALE. There are no more brand new $10 shovels, they are $20 or more. Did you buy one at $10 or $20? Did you buy several at a yard sale just to have, just in case? I look at it this way, by stocking up at today's prices you are saving money in the future.

I cannot advise you on your investments, that is a personal thing. I will say that I am no longer in the stock market with any of my investments. I am investing in real estate, MY real estate, my home. If I have a few extra fiat dollars I send it to the bank to get out from under this mortgage. I invest in PM's to store what wealth I might need in the future. I invest in ways to keep me alive when the fiat money system goes down. I invest in things I know I will need in the future, will you ever not need TP?


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## goshengirl

k0xxx, I don't think you're off. I understand folks who want it to start, because d*mn it, we need the reset. We can't keep on as is, our liberties dwindling away faster and faster like water in a toilet boil. And I pray that ultimately we will come out the other side better off. But history has shown us that it won't happen in our lifetime. I remain hopeful, but not optimistic.


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## act5860

Bobbb said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if such a proposal was implemented then you would benefit from it.
> 
> When proposing tax policy the goal should be to propose what is best for society, not what is best for ourselves. Who listens to a rich man arguing for a reduction in taxes or a hunter arguing for no hunting licensing to be in place or for a long distance trucker who wants to eliminate taxes on 18-wheelers?


And just WHO is to decide what is best for society? I'm tired of supporting a SOCIETY of moochers. We've lost our values as a society. Unemployment benefits that last a year? There are plenty of jobs out there, but most Americans won't take them but the illegals will. Food stamps for millons? Obamacare? The courts have already declared that it's a tax. It's no different then the govt telling you that you have to buy a Chrysler product so they can pay back the bailout.  I think it's time to start over with currency backed by precious metals and a society based on personal responsibility.


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## Tacitus

k0xxx said:


> Be careful, you may get what you wish for, at least as far as collapse. I believe that a collapse in the US will be followed by great social upheaval similar to what we are seeing in Greece, but on a scale many times greater. We (at least here in the US) have raised two generations that feel entitled to instant gratification and government handouts.


I agree. It ain't gonna be pretty. And most of all I feel bad for my children.

I don't wish for anything other than for the government to figure things out, and pay off the debt by cutting spending drastically on *every* program. But I've turned from being politically active (trying to fix things at the government level), to being active at the family level (trying to survive the coming financial storm). I don't hope for the storm. I'm no patriot looking for a fight. I act (e.g., buy food) in anticipation of the possibility of financial collapse in spite of my continued wish for it not to occur. My most base motivation is as a father, and therefore as a provider and protector.


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## faithmarie

Just thought I would post this... :dunno:

This story brought to Beforeitsnews by Sherrie Questioning All

I am going ahead and writing about some conversations I have had this week with two different individuals. 

Both are former government officials. One was a top ranking Military official and another was an Intelligence Officer. I confirmed both were who they said they were after they had contacted me originally. I have not written about them on this blog or our conversations, as we will discuss current events etc on the phone. They have never given me any "top secret" type information (FYI - for any govt. officials reading this). But they do give me what is real or not real when events happen. 

Both had contacted me awhile back and I was very leery in the beginning. I did not know if they were trying to get information about me etc. But after a short amount of time I found they were both genuine and sincere of their contacting me. 

This week both of them have contacted me and have been giving me "warnings." 

Two things from past conversations with them about current events:

First they have both told me "Sandy Hook was a false flag." It is to get into the mind set of people that their children are at risk it is the psychology of fear for the masses. Also the intelligence person said that the Dorner thing, something was really not right about it and he believed the manifesto was written by a few different people due to the way it read and how it was written. We were not able to get into a long conversation about it so I really can't say much about that here.

Second, I was told all the listening into people's conversations and reading of the emails, people don't really need to worry about that. The intelligence officer said "Yes, they are, BUT they don't give a Sh** about all of our opinions. They care about money. They are paying attention to the big corporation phone calls and emails and to know who is making a big money deal with who, so they can make money off that information." He said "The rest of it is boring to them and they couldn't care less what people think. It is all about money." He said all that is going on from the top down is not about money, it is simply about Control of the people. They have more money than they can ever spend it is the control and power and making downtrodden slaves of the people.

He told me.... Officers that are in government agencies (FBI etc) right now, know the truth about 9/11 and the Oklahoma bombing but they don't say anything and evidence proves the truth that has never been released (especially with Oklahoma). 

The warnings both called me about this week has been about the break down of the U.S. They both said it is coming this year, with an estimated time of 6 to 12 months at the longest. They both told me the most important things people need to do right now is to have food, water and something to protect that and your family with. 


They have both stressed that to me this week, individually. I had mentioned to both that we had expected this in 2008 and 2009 and it didn't happen so people were weary of those type warnings. They both said "It will happen this year." 

I am not writing this to "freak" people out or to cause "fear or panic." In fact the intelligence officer said one time to me "Giving predictions just gets people upset and if it doesn't happen they look at you as a fool, if it does happen they won't ever remember that you gave that warning out in the first place."

The Former military officer sent this article from SHTF to me this morning with the subject line: "Warning Report"


Report: Realistic Urban Training is DHS and DOD “Conducting Desensitizing Exercises”


Small Portion:



Preferring to remain unnamed for obvious reasons, he told me, “DHS and DOD are conducting desensitizing exercises all across the U.S.,” he paused, then added, “we’re being prepared for mass civil unrest in major U.S. cities. DOD will be expected to help – when we’re requested.”I asked if there was a timeline for expecting civil unrest in our cities and why should we expect it to begin with.
I was told that there were many reasons, but that the continued devaluation of our currency, the predicted history-setting prices for gasoline this summer and the continued gun control debate are forming a perfect storm of civil discontent. When this storm hits, it will most assuredly produce mass casualties. When does DHS expect this to happen? This summer.


I am going ahead and writing about this and I will simply say: Do what feels right to you. Watch what is going on and see if the current events hint to a break down this year where getting food won't be as easy as it is right now. 

They have said the food part will be because there will not be fuel to get the food to the stores and the shelves will be empty. 

So again... I am simply passing along information about "Warnings" I have been given and both were very somber and serious about the warnings when they called me. 

It will be up to all of us individually to decide if the warnings have any meaning to each of us and take actions of various sorts if they do. 

OH... something else...the Military officer said "A new government Will be born from this and that it is going to be a difficult time... but it will be a Good government and a government that is suppose to be for this country." at the end of our last conversation. 

May we always be guided by Truth and Higher Intelligence as we go forward.


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## Tacitus

BillS said:


> So what do you think will happen during a collapse? ... When it's all over I expect at least 250 million Americans to die. Probably closer to 300 million.


Now _that_ would be bad!  There are only 310 million people in the United States right now!

250 million would die only if there were an EMP...and a really good one, or multiple ones on the two coasts.

For a mere financial collapse, it would be more like Argentina and Greece. Our version of that would include riots and food shortages and crime waves (including kidnapping businesses like in Brazil). It would include 20-25% unemployment (40-45% unemployment for minorities). It would be ugly. People would die, but not by the millions, I don't think...unless we put the LAPD in charge.


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## Gravlore

Bobbb said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if such a proposal was implemented then you would benefit from it.
> 
> When proposing tax policy the goal should be to propose what is best for society, not what is best for ourselves. Who listens to a rich man arguing for a reduction in taxes or a hunter arguing for no hunting licensing to be in place or for a long distance trucker who wants to eliminate taxes on 18-wheelers?


Absolutely I would benefit since the municipality that I live in benefits from me not taking my kids to a public school (homeschool and no rebate) and I clear my roads before they get out there. Other than that there is nothing that they do for me in a rural area. I am far from rich but I do, do things myself. I will be having my parents live next to us and I will take care of them since we believe that family has their best interest in mind so that nixes the care home expense from government. And yet I dont get a break from taxes because I do this. I dont want any social benefits (police, fire, health, road maint(should be in gas tax), school) so I dont want to pay for these so called benefits. If is save money for the state then I should pay less since that is 'fair'.

I think this discussion is good and by no means do I take anything negatively. You are good people here but many share different ideals and opinion. I am not angry unless there is name calling. If that happens I win anyhow.


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## BillM

The U S dollar is "All hat and no cattle".


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## Gravlore

BillS said:


> So what do you think will happen during a collapse? I expect no one to have a job. Stores will be closed. There will be no goods transported across the country. There will be no police or fire protection or electricity or public water. There will be massive rioting and looting. Rape, robbery, murder, and starvation on a massive scale. When it's all over I expect at least 250 million Americans to die. Probably closer to 300 million.


Pretty much.

Consider it Chemotherapy for society. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt but at least the cancer is dealt with one way or the other.


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## Bobbb

Gravlore said:


> road maint(should be in gas tax), . .


I'm highlighting this part of your post but my response applies pretty much to all of your examples.

I have a grandmother who is still able to drive. She puts a total of about 500 miles on her car every year. If her only contribution to funding the road network was her proportional tax via gas taxes she'd have paid peanuts. However, the benefit she derives from having access to a road network is immense, far more than what she pays in taxes or what she pays in gas taxes.

Your basic argument is that you want to free ride on civilization and want to pay some user fee on the occasion when you find need to use a benefit of civilization. You don't want to pay for roads when you don't drive them and you're happy to pay a piddly little amount for the 10 mile ambulance trip to the hospital but you don't want to pay to have a road network in place ready to use.

The best way to reconcile your desires with reality is to remove yourself from civilization. I'm not writing this with ill-intent or insult. Find a place where you are 100 miles removed from the nearest road - like Dick Proenneke (of PBS' "Alone in the Wilderness" fame) did - he didn't pay school taxes, road taxes, nothing because there was no civilization around him.

The taxes you pay for civilization are not user fees, they pay to keep civilization functioning. When you need a road network connecting your house to the nearest hospital that road network has to be paid for and the value to you of using the road network is far, far greater than the actual maintenance cost of repairing the minute amount of damage you do to the road for the minutes that you travel on it.

Same principle applies to policing. The police are useful to society, and to you, not merely for responding to a crime which happens to you but for keeping order in society. This means that you benefit from something that you don't see or actively use.

Same with fire departments. Same with public health and vaccinations. Same with public education.

There are things that we must do to keep civilization running and that's what taxes pay for. Redistribution of wealth is not one of the jobs that government should be doing and I have no beef with the criticism of that misguided and oppressive effort but your effort to free ride on civilization doesn't sit well with me.

Now, all that said, I do think that you actually have a point. Society should have a way for people who don't want to pay to be a part of society to continue living but not participating. I do think it's a great idea for sections of land that are completely disconnected from roads, water systems, electric systems, internet and phone systems, etc to be tax-free zones. You live there and you draw no benefits from civilization, you don't earn any income, you get no government pension, you get no benefits, you simply live off the land, you don't travel to the city to buy sugar and salt and ketchup, no nothing, you're on your own. I think this is a needed safety valve for society. People should have a way to withdraw and live their own lives without having government and civilization forcing themselves into people's lives.

But just like you can't be a little bit pregnant, if someone wants some benefits of civilization then they need to recognize that they're not paying just a marginal cost for the tiny bit that they use, they're paying to have the whole kit and caboodle ready to be used in its complete form whenever they desire to use it - just like you have to pay an electric company a connection fee every month whether you use zero electricity or use a lot.


----------



## Ireight

Bobbb said:


> I'm highlighting this part of your post but my response applies pretty much to all of your examples.
> 
> I have a grandmother who is still able to drive. She puts a total of about 500 miles on her car every year. If her only contribution to funding the road network was her proportional tax via gas taxes she'd have paid peanuts. However, the benefit she derives from having access to a road network is immense, far more than what she pays in taxes or what she pays in gas taxes.
> 
> Your basic argument is that you want to free ride on civilization and want to pay some user fee on the occasion when you find need to use a benefit of civilization. You don't want to pay for roads when you don't drive them and you're happy to pay a piddly little amount for the 10 mile ambulance trip to the hospital but you don't want to pay to have a road network in place ready to use.
> 
> There are things that we must do to keep civilization running and that's what taxes pay for. Redistribution of wealth is not one of the jobs that government should be doing and I have no beef with the criticism of that misguided and oppressive effort but your effort to free ride on civilization doesn't sit well with me.
> 
> But just like you can't be a little bit pregnant, if someone wants some benefits of civilization then they need to recognize that they're not paying just a marginal cost for the tiny bit that they use, they're paying to have the whole kit and caboodle ready to be used in its complete form whenever they desire to use it - just like you have to pay an electric company a connection fee every month whether you use zero electricity or use a lot.


Your argument is flawed. The way I look at it yes I like having roads street lights, and so on, but I pay 1000 times more in taxes than I should. 
I would be fine if I only had to pay for common society uses whether I use a little or a lot. But I am also forced to through tax extortion pay for food stamps, unemployment, abortions, social security ponzie scam, wind towers, solar panels, bailing out banks, Gm, Chrysler, people who bought a house they couldn't afford, giving $$$ and weapons to Muslim brotherhood, and 2 wars that have no reason and no end, I could keep going but I think you get the point. I'm fine paying for anything that is scripted in the constitution plus public services that are common use, anything else is extortion. 
For year 2010 I netted about $215000 and paid $75000+ in taxes That's over 30%


----------



## invision

Tacitus said:


> I agree. It ain't gonna be pretty. And most of all I feel bad for my children.
> 
> I don't wish for anything other than for the government to figure things out, and pay off the debt by cutting spending drastically on every program. But I've turned from being politically active (trying to fix things at the government level), to being active at the family level (trying to survive the coming financial storm). I don't hope for the storm. I'm no patriot looking for a fight. I act (e.g., buy food) in anticipation of the possibility of financial collapse in spite of my continued wish for it not to occur. My most base motivation is as a father, and therefore as a provider and protector.


Damn, took the words out of my mouth... Nicely said... Agree.


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## invision

Ireight said:


> Your argument is flawed. The way I look at it yes I like having roads street lights, and so on, but I pay 1000 times more in taxes than I should.
> I would be fine if I only had to pay for common society uses whether I use a little or a lot. But I am also forced to through tax extortion pay for food stamps, unemployment, abortions, social security ponzie scam, wind towers, solar panels, bailing out banks, Gm, Chrysler, people who bought a house they couldn't afford, giving $$$ and weapons to Muslim brotherhood, and 2 wars that have no reason and no end, I could keep going but I think you get the point. I'm fine paying for anything that is scripted in the constitution plus public services that are common use, anything else is extortion.
> For year 2010 I netted about $215000 and paid $75000+ in taxes That's over 30%


I am higher than you in both Net and what I pay in taxes... What I think would be "fair" is exactly what Dr, Carson stated a few days ago... Make it a flat tax system... So the guy making $10,000,000,000 pays $1,000,000,000 and they guy who makes $10 pays $1... It is fair...


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## faithmarie

I thought this was interesting ...


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## BillS

Gravlore said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> Consider it Chemotherapy for society. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesnt but at least the cancer is dealt with one way or the other.


So the only way to save the patient is to kill it? That doesn't make any sense.


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## Ireight

invision said:


> I am higher than you in both Net and what I pay in taxes... What I think would be "fair" is exactly what Dr, Carson stated a few days ago... Make it a flat tax system... So the guy making $10,000,000,000 pays $1,000,000,000 and they guy who makes $10 pays $1... It is fair...


Exactly that's the only way


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## Gravlore

Bobbb

Then up the gas tax to reflect its users. If tractor trailers are the issue then up the diesel tax or tolls (we do not have) and then they can up their service and pass the costs to the people who buy the stuff that comes off their trucks. If an ambulance comes to someones home then charge a road fee just like a mechanic charges a tool fee by each visit. I drive on finished roads and I should pay for that but if I dont use it then I should not.


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## Gravlore

BillS said:


> So the only way to save the patient is to kill it? That doesn't make any sense.


Nope, did not say to Death machine it.


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## k0xxx

I came across this article from Thursday, and it pretty much captures the reality of the situation, but they may be a little optimistic on the timing IMHO.

Is the Dollar Dying? Why US Currency Is in Danger


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## invision

k0xxx said:


> I came across this article from Thursday, and it pretty much captures the reality of the situation, but they may be a little optimistic on the timing IMHO.
> 
> Is the Dollar Dying? Why US Currency Is in Danger


Great share... Thanks... I just shared it out to FB... Scary, but true... Why most of the financial guys I know are talking bugging out to Costa Rica in 4-6 years....


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## BillS

Gravlore said:


> Nope, did not say to Death machine it.


You said a collapse is a good thing. What percentage of Americans will die at that time?


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## invision

BillS said:


> You said a collapse is a good thing. What percentage of Americans will die at that time?


My guess - 75-90%...


----------



## kappydell

Tacitus said:


> What do you mean by durable goods, exactly?
> 
> Cars? That truck I've been thinking about? But I don't want payments. I'm assuming debt is bad. Or, at least debt that has a variable rate that will go up with inflation. Now, a real estate loan on the other hand....
> 
> Maybe that new refrigerator and new air conditioning system my wife might want? Or, maybe that wood stove or the generator I've been thinking about?
> 
> Silver probably ok.
> 
> Sell my stocks to buy these things?


No, durable goods that can be used to make money, or at least don't cost money (to run or use). Tools. Raw materials. Spare parts. Buildings to hold same. Durable goods that are used to live with: food, clothing, shelter. Not something that will cost money to run, or be useless without power or specialized parts (unless you stock spare parts, too...) I don't think he meant going into debt to buy things, either. Put savings into silver for stability.


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## BlueShoe

Driving the dollar down is intentional. I have a hard time looking at major media outlets like CNBC without knowing they're just another corporate news outlet by the MSM. 
Economists want the Dollar cheap. That's part of the currency war. It doesn't mean it's not in danger because we know all the major western currencies are just smoke & mirrors. 
And don't forget Obama said 3 yrs ago in his State of the Union that he wanted to double exports. How do you do that when you're outsourcing your production? With your currency by making it cheaper for foreigners to buy our stuff since it's on sale compared to their currency. That invites foreign travel and money for what we do still produce. A cheap dollar does that. You see it when prices increase.

That dark haired guy in the other videos in this forum showing a graph of the dollar diving isn't considering that it's a benefit to the Dollar and the fed in this climate. It's not a good thing for domestic consumers who take the brunt in higher prices, but it preserves the system.

I don't like the fed nor the dollar as a unit of debt. Just commenting that some are speaking as though the Dollar is a unit of value and strength would indicate health. It's not a value based instrument. It's a debt instrument. And a strong unit of debt makes your debt weigh heavier than if it's weak. And the fed said they're adding 1 trillion more in debt this year, further driving the weakened state. They added 2.5 trillion to the national debt in 2008 and 2009, not to mention how ever much they added under QE3 after 2009.


----------



## Tacitus

tenOC said:


> Driving the dollar down is intentional....
> Economists want the Dollar cheap. That's part of the currency war. It doesn't mean it's not in danger because we know all the major western currencies are just smoke & mirrors.
> And don't forget Obama said 3 yrs ago in his State of the Union that he wanted to double exports. How do you do that when you're outsourcing your production? With your currency by making it cheaper for foreigners to buy our stuff since it's on sale compared to their currency. That invites foreign travel and money for what we do still produce. A cheap dollar does that. You see it when prices increase.


OK. I see your point that driving the dollar down improves the domestic manufacturing situation. But shouldn't we have done that 20 years ago?

Also, I'm not sure the author was focusing on the currency war to the exclusion of our debt problem and the lack of fiscal responsibility of our leadership. People will move away from the dollar because of our debt, not necessarily because of the currency war.

I freely admit I'm a novice economist, so I welcome any correction or criticism regarding what I type.

I guess when I see CNBC telling us that the sky may fall, I start to listen, since I think the mainstream media is usually pretty careful to tell us that things are fine.


----------



## oldasrocks

Tacitus said:


> OK. I see your point that driving the dollar down improves the domestic manufacturing situation. But shouldn't we have done that 20 years ago?
> 
> If the dollar is worth less everything imported costs more. (read Wallyworld) So to keep the natives happy a strong dollar is better because their minimum wage buys more stuff.


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## faithmarie

I am just posting this... is this real or a wanna be court?


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## BillS

I don't believe it.


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## faithmarie

I don't either .... but it would be lovely .... I can dream can't I ...LOL


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## invision

faithmarie said:


> Video Link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am just posting this... is this real or a wanna be court?




I think what they are talking about is where the USSC declared Obama's three recess appointments last year to the National Labor Relations Board, when the Senate was not at recess. However, I unfortunately don't believe that in and of itself are grounds for anyone to impeach him...

Now researching the author of the video, I find it funny he is bashing Obama, when he himself started the US Labor Party, which had socialistic view points.


----------



## BlueShoe

Tacitus said:


> OK. I see your point that driving the dollar down improves the domestic manufacturing situation. But shouldn't we have done that 20 years ago?


They were more interested in inflating bubbles. The economy hasn't really ever soundly recovered since the Tech bubble. The fed just started promoting the public to borrow cheap money to spend, spend, spend. When they laxed regulations on the finance/mortgage sectors, those corporations took the bait and loaned money to part time workers so they could buy tract mansions. The banks and ratings houses magnified that risk by defrauding the public thru their hedge funds by rebundling them as "healthy", and loaning multiples of their stated value. And they were setting up the American taxpayer to take the fall. The purpose was to create a lot of money in areas where the ability didn't exist until they laxed the rules in order to do what we're doing now. It's the same can we're still kicking down the road. There is no stated end game to recognize as worthy, because there are no sound principles being practiced.



> Also, I'm not sure the author was focusing on the currency war to the exclusion of our debt problem and the lack of fiscal responsibility of our leadership. People will move away from the dollar because of our debt, not necessarily because of the currency war.


People moving away from our dollar helps fuel the currency war they're pushing. And it's a good opportunity to buy back debt at a cheaper price. It doesn't mean it will work. Growing debt and deficit just means they're going to hit the American taxpayer like a game of tetherball. They're high-balling us so we never get a chance to defend, and it'll be over without us getting a hand on it.



> I freely admit I'm a novice economist, so I welcome any correction or criticism regarding what I type.
> 
> I guess when I see CNBC telling us that the sky may fall, I start to listen, since I think the mainstream media is usually pretty careful to tell us that things are fine.


I'm a novice too, but I sometimes listen to King World News podcasts and it gives the break down of who's doing what and what the result is/will be. CNBC is in it to make money off viewers for as long as they can. Kramer is on that station isn't he? He reminds me of a carnival side show game.


----------



## Gravlore

BillS said:


> You said a collapse is a good thing. What percentage of Americans will die at that time?


I am not God nor a psychic so I cant say. Anywhere from 0-100%.

Many die every year in our current system but it is largely ignored unless one is personally effected. No matter what some lose and some gain but there are but a few winners now. The rest of society is either broke or has the illusion they are winners through cheap credit.


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## faithmarie

Just posting .. I hope it is worth posting ..


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## faithmarie

Just posting ...


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## machinist

The Fed is in a classic liquidity trap:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity_trap

Bernanke cannot stop what he's doing, without crashing the economy. And doing more of the same has no positive effect on the economy.

The Fed is out of bullets. All Ben can do is print money to keep the govt. going. That works until nobody wants dollars because they are printing too many of them.

Got popcorn for watching the show?

More importantly, got preps?


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## BlueShoe

It's what Jim Sinclair coined in term as "QE to infinity" 2-3 years ago. They have to keep printing until 'the end'.

EDIT: I hear the video interviewer used the term. I don't listen to Denninger, but the one time I did pay attention to him was about 3-4 yrs ago when someone posted a link to him sounding the panic alarm telling everyone to get out of the Dollar immediately because the Fed is monetizing debt when Bernanke said he wouldn't months earlier, and we were about to see a major bond failure. We're still here. Most people don't just how far the Fed can push this string.


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## Immolatus

machinist said:


> Bernanke cannot stop what he's doing, without crashing the economy.


When referring to loaning money to the gubt (buying up all the debt) yes, but that could easily be remedied.
When referring to QE4EVA, this is only keeping the banks solvent and the uber wealthy, well, uber wealthy, and does nothing to help the economy.


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## oldasrocks

It will be almost funny when the "uber rich" find they need $100,000 cash for a loaf of bread.


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## faithmarie

Just posting ... incase someone is interested ..


----------



## PackerBacker

faithmarie said:


> Just posting ... incase someone is interested ..


I'd like to listen but it's to painful.


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## faithmarie

In what way is it painful... the women talking? LOL His chain smoking... LOL He is annoying? LOL


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## faithmarie

How about these? These are my speed.... :flower::teehee:


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## faithmarie

RECENTLY, ROLL CALL ANALYZED THE FINANCIAL ASSETS OF U.S. LAWMAKERS, CONTAINED IN MANDATORY ANNUAL DISCLOSURES, TO DETERMINE THE MEMBERS OF THE U.S. CONGRESS THAT HAVE THE HIGHEST APPROXIMATE NET WORTH.
Although these Congressional disclosures are not exact-they are displayed in a range of estimated value over broad categories-Roll Call, a Capitol Hill news and information provider, analyzed the assets and liabilities of every U.S. representative and senator to come up with the 50 richest members of Congress. The 15 richest members are presented here.

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R-CALIF.) $448.1 MILLION
Issa secured $815,000 in earmarks between 2007 and 2009 to widen a road less than a mile from a medical building in Vista, Calif., that Issa purchased for $16.6 million in 2008. Issa sold the property on Jan. 19 for $15 million. These earmarks were first reported in March by the Center for American Progress and in August by The New York Times. "Rep. Issa's request for the widening project was made on behalf of local leaders and predated his purchase of the medical center building," a spokesman said. -Washington Post

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TEXAS) $380.4 MILLION
Since 2004, Michael McCaul's net worth has increased by 1013 percent - from $34.2 million to $380.4 million. He has served Texas's 10th congressional district since 2005, and is a member of the House Committee on Ethics. Some of the increase comes from his marriage to his wife, Linda, a daughter of the Clear Channel Communications CEO who inherited a fortune.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MASS.) $231.7 MILLION
Kerry, a presidential nominee in 2004, has increased his wealth like many other politicians - he married money. As a result, his net worth spiked to $336.2 million at the height of the bubble, but lost 16 percent by 2010 to $231.7 million. Most recently, as debate coach to President Obama, he's been blamed for derailing Obama's performance.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA.) $192.7 MILLION
Mark Warner, who in recent days has refused to rule out a 2013 gubernatorial bid, Saturday night convened a reunion in Richmond of several hundred of his former advisers and supporters. "Everyone in that room was hoping he'd run for Governor again," said a senior Virginia Democrat. But Warner, who left Richmond in 2006 with stratospheric approval numbers and remains widely popular in the commonwealth, is now suggesting publicly that he may consider trying to reclaim his old job. His 2007 $237.8 net worth lost 19 percent by 2010, down to $192.7 million.

SEN. HERB KOHL (D-WISC.) $173.5 MILLION
Herbert H. "Herb" Kohl (born February 7, 1935) is an American businessman and politician. He is the senior United States Senator from Wisconsin and a member of the Democratic Party. He is also a philanthropist and the owner of the Milwaukee Bucks National Basketball Association (NBA) team. He is not seeking reelection in 2012. His net worth dropped nearly by half since 2006, when his estate was valued at $337 million.

REP. JARED POLIS (D-COLO.) $143.2 MILLION
Rep. Jared Polis, D-Boulder, spent $6 million on his initial 2008 congressional campaign. He made his fortune by selling his online businesses, according to The Daily Camera. He was also instrumental in urging Congress to pass the Internet Radio Fairness Act.

REP. VERN BUCHANAN (R-FLA.) $136.2 MILLION
Buchanan owns two reinsurance companies in Turks and Caicos, and part of the Bermuda reinsurance company Greater Atlantic Insurance Co. The three companies offer extended warranty policies to car buyers. Buchanan invests some of the proceeds from his reinsurance companies in real estate developments in the Bahamas.

Buchanan has defended his record, saying, "I have always paid my taxes and it is a substantial amount, but I don't think anyone should pay more taxes than they owe." His campaign spokeswoman added that his use of offshore reinsurance companies is normal. She noted, "This is a widely accepted practice offered by hundreds of businesses and enjoyed by thousands of consumers."

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CALIF.) $101.1 MILLION
Earmark near personal property: $50.0 million

Over the past decade, the House minority leader helped secure $50 million in earmarks toward a light-rail project that will provide direct access to San Francisco's Union Square and Chinatown for neighborhoods south of Market Street. Pelosi's husband owns a four-story commercial building blocks from Union Square. These earmarks were reported in the book "Throw Them All Out." A Pelosi spokesman said the project was requested by community leaders and that the new stations on the line will be farther away from the building than those on the existing line.

SEN JAY ROCKEFELLER (D-W.VA.) $99.1 MILLION
Jay Rockefeller wasn't about to lose his family fortune during the Great Recession. His net worth dropped a mere 3 percent from 2004, from $101.7 million in 2004 to $99.1 million in 2010. Paul Rosenzweig of the Heritage Foundation wrote in a blog last month, "In a remarkable letter to all Fortune 500 CEOs, Senator Jay Rockefeller bemoans the business community's opposition to his cyber security legislation, the Cyber security Act of 2012. He is shocked - simply shocked, as was Captain Renaut in Casablanca - that any business institution could possibly oppose more government red tape when 'security' is on the line."

SEN. FRANK LAUTENBERG (D-NJ) $85.6 MILLION
Lautenberg did OK during the recession. Since 2004, his net worth is up 63 percent - from $52.4 million to $85.6 million. One of the most vocal advocates of gun control legislation, he introduced legislation after Gabrielle Giffords was shot. The bill went nowhere.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CONN.) $73.2 MILLION
As a real estate investor, Blumenthal didn't do well between 2009 and 2010. His net worth fell 23 percent from $94.9 million to $73.2 million. He is fighting the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the overseer of Fannie and Freddie, and new fees they are imposing on his state. "I will fight to stop Fannie and Freddie from punishing Connecticut for protecting its citizens from unfair and abusive foreclosure practices. I am seeking immediate action to reverse this misguided, unacceptable decision."

SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D-CALIF.) $69.0 MILLION
She represents a state with one of the worst deficits in the U.S. and one of the least favorable business conditions. Now she's asking for the Federal Trade Commission to investigate what she calls "malicious trading schemes" on the part of gasoline producers and oil refineries. The average price of gas in the state hit $4.668, according to AAA.

SEN. BOB CORKER (R-TENN.) $59.6 MILLION
Bob Corker wants to take the Tennessee Valley Authority back from the federal government, which he says can destroy the energy source. He's also been attacking the administration on what he calls Benghazi-gate and whether the State Department ignored requests for more security at the embassy where U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and three others were killed. Not exactly a low profile for a guy with nearly $60 million.

SEN. JAMES RISCH (R-IDAHO) $54.1 MILLION
The only odd thing we could find about the former governor of Idaho was that he's among 60 lawmakers who don't use Twitter. Holdouts are divided almost equally between the two parties. Sen. Jim Risch (R-Idaho) - part of the over-60 crowd - might be technically challenged. Risch's office said the senator has not ruled it out. "He certainly sees the benefit of Twitter as a social medium, as demonstrated by the Usain Bolt tweets during the Olympics, but less useful as a policy discussion tool," said spokesman Brad Hoaglun.

REP. KENNY MARCHANT (R-TEX.) $49.3 MILLION
Marchant nearly doubled his money from 2004 to 2010 - from $26.8 million to $49.3 million. He worked closely with Bush when he was governor of Texas, and bills himself as a staunch conservative. However, he has occasionally broken ranks with the GOP, as he did to increase the minimum wage. He has said that his top priority on Capitol Hill will be cutting the federal deficit with fiscal conservative policies. The Sunlight Foundation pointed out that among the 435 members of the U.S. House of Representatives in 2008, Marchant has the fifth-highest amount of investment in oil stocks.

REP. GARY MILLER (D-CALIF.) $46 MILLION
Earmark near personal property: $1.3 million

Miller secured $1.28 million in earmarks in 2005 to help repave, re-landscape and install new drains along Grand Avenue in Diamond Bar, Calif. The project, previously reported by The Inland Valley Daily Bulletin of Ontario, upgraded an access road for a residential and retail development that he co-owned with a campaign donor. Miller sold the property months after securing the earmark. "At no time did Congressman Miller use his position to promote or enhance his personal business partnerships," Miller's spokeswoman said.

REP. RODNEY FRELINGHUYSEN (R-NJ) $42.9 MILLION
Frelinghuysen has more than a little national politics in his blood: His father, great-great grandfather and great-great-great uncle all represented New Jersey in Congress. Frelinghuysen sat on a congressional Appropriations committee, spending much of his Washington career serving as a go-to for his state when federal funding was needed. A relatively moderate Republican and a supporter of earmarking, Frelinghuysen calls the practice a "constitutional responsibility." Frelinghuysen is also a member of two moderate Republican groups: the Republican Main Street Partnership and Republicans for Environmental Protection.

REP. JIM RENACCI (R-OHIO) $42.1 MILLION
Wow. We wonder who his broker is. Renacci's net worth climbed 28 percent between 2009 and 2010, from $28.1 million to $42.1 million. As a freshman Republican, Renacci is up for reelection this year. He owns a nursing home management firm and co-owns an Arena Football League team.

REP. JIM RENACCI (R-OHIO) $42.1 MILLION
Wow. We wonder who his broker is. Renacci's net worth climbed 28 percent between 2009 and 2010, from $28.1 million to $42.1 million. As a freshman Republican, Renacci is up for reelection this year. He owns a nursing home management firm and co-owns an Arena Football League team.

REP. NITA LOWEY (D-NY) $41.2 MILLION
Nita Lowey has a rich husband - and an investment strategy that pays off. The couple's net worth has risen 36 percent since 2004, from $30.3 million to $41.2 million in 2010. As the chairwoman of the House Appropriations State and Foreign Operations subcommittee, Lowey has wielded power far beyond New York's 18th district. The veteran New York pol achieved her highest degree of national exposure when she declined to run for the 2000 Senate race for then-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan's (D-N.Y.) seat when it became clear that then-First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton intended to compete. In 2001, in what was often interpreted as rewarding party loyalty for bowing of that Senate race gracefully, Lowey assumed control of House Democrats' campaign arm. In 2008, Lowey made headlines in connection to Clinton's Senate seat yet again when she withdrew from the running to replace Clinton when the former first lady became President Obama's secretary of state.

Source: www.thefiscaltimes.com


----------



## BlueShoe

faithmarie said:


> How about these? These are my speed.... :flower::teehee:


I notice lots of people mention TP in their preps as being essential needs, as the Prepper Nurse did. 
I wonder if middle eastern preppers (in the "middle" east) store TP?


----------



## faithmarie

Not many they jus use a hose and a hand in Syria it was a lot of hole in the floor like the French and a hose and your hand. It may be healthier but I prefer the English crapper. Lol


----------



## BillS

We have 400 rolls of TP for use by 4 adults. Should be more than enough to last a year.

The information on the richest congressmen doesn't include how much money they made while in Congress. Insider trading is legal for congressmen. They often benefit by being given stock as part of IPO's or they sell short on stocks from industries that are about to be damaged by government regulations. For example, James River Coal Company's stock went from about $6.60 to $1.60 in about 3 months.


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## BlueShoe

If Gold goes to $8000, doesn't that about bring the Dollar in line with a gold standard?


----------



## faithmarie

I don't know anything about this stuff .. but we don't have TV so we just watch the internet in the morning with coffee and if something has my husbands eye brows raise ... I post it ....LOL


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## BillS

tenOC said:


> If Gold goes to $8000, doesn't that about bring the Dollar in line with a gold standard?


I don't think we can go to a gold standard because the Fed is destroying the dollar. Sometime after that we'll probably see a global currency backed by gold.


----------



## machinist

I could believe something might happen with currency unions, sort of like the Euro. But I don't see China, Russia, nor the Middle East signing on to join anything that Europe or the US has their fingers in. Might end up with 3 or 4 "reserve currencies". That is something James Rickards suggested as a possible outcome to the "currency wars" he wrote about in his book by that name.

Here's his blog site:
http://jimrickards.blogspot.com/


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## BlueShoe

Well gold is staying static and the currencies are fluctuating, but backing it with straight gold probably removes a central banks ability to manipulate it like they want, because backing currencies with nothing instead of having the limits of an asset holding them down is just too burdensome.


----------



## machinist

*A Black Swan?*

That's what they call unforeseeable events with a big impact.

Could be a BIG problem here for European banks. Cyprus banks are belly up. Europe is trying to paper it over, but Cyprus has already scared the stuffing out of depositors with a grab of 10% of depositors' money to help the banks. Could cause a loss of confidence, so statements have been issued TODAY, on Sunday, that Europe will back the Cyprus banks, very obviously tryin gto prevent a run on Cyprus banks. If the scare spreads to European banks, all bets are off.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-17/jpmorgan-asks-has-europe-bazookaed-itself-foot-answers-yes

Karl Denninger doesn't like this a bit:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=218812
He thinks it could cause no end of trouble in Europe and that could spread all over.

It remains to be seen if the European central bank can keep a lid on this. There is a LOT of US bank money tied up in Europe, so it has direct impact in the US. There are probably still currency swap lines in effect from US to back the Euro, which would mean a big hit to the Federal Reserve, IIRC. I'm not a currency trader, but I read what they have to say, and at the moment they are puckered up pretty tightly.

Gold price is being manipulated down as best the Fed can manage it. If the above gets really stinky, gold price could break out of their control, so watch it closely for a while.

All world currencies are now fiat--just paper with nothing behind them. So the RELATIVE value of any paper currency to another one of them doesn't tell us much about it real value. You would only be comparing the price of one brand of toilet paper to another brand. You have to check what any given currency will buy in the way of real GOODS.

To know what a given currency is worth, you also have to look beyond manipulated gold/silver prices to commodities. If oil, grains, and other basics get affected by this, we have a real problem.


----------



## invision

machinist said:


> That's what they call unforeseeable events with a big impact.
> 
> Could be a BIG problem here for European banks. Cyprus banks are belly up. Europe is trying to paper it over, but Cyprus has already scared the stuffing out of depositors with a grab of 10% of depositors' money to help the banks. Could cause a loss of confidence, so statements have been issued TODAY, on Sunday, that Europe will back the Cyprus banks, very obviously tryin gto prevent a run on Cyprus banks. If the scare spreads to European banks, all bets are off.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-03-17/jpmorgan-asks-has-europe-bazookaed-itself-foot-answers-yes
> 
> Karl Denninger doesn't like this a bit:
> http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=218812
> He thinks it could cause no end of trouble in Europe and that could spread all over.
> 
> It remains to be seen if the European central bank can keep a lid on this. There is a LOT of US bank money tied up in Europe, so it has direct impact in the US. There are probably still currency swap lines in effect from US to back the Euro, which would mean a big hit to the Federal Reserve, IIRC. I'm not a currency trader, but I read what they have to say, and at the moment they are puckered up pretty tightly.
> 
> Gold price is being manipulated down as best the Fed can manage it. If the above gets really stinky, gold price could break out of their control, so watch it closely for a while.
> 
> All world currencies are now fiat--just paper with nothing behind them. So the RELATIVE value of any paper currency to another one of them doesn't tell us much about it real value. You would only be comparing the price of one brand of toilet paper to another brand. You have to check what any given currency will buy in the way of real GOODS.
> 
> To know what a given currency is worth, you also have to look beyond manipulated gold/silver prices to commodities. If oil, grains, and other basics get affected by this, we have a real problem.


Well Gold just shot back over $1600 an hour ago.... gonna be a bumpy day tomorrow in all markets!


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## BlueShoe

He mentions Brooksley Born. Check her out. She was appointed by Bush and reconfirmed under Obama. She knew what was happening and was doing everything she could to expose the fraud.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/warning/interviews/born.html


> As head of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission [CFTC], Brooksley Born became alarmed by the lack of oversight of the secretive, multitrillion-dollar over-the-counter derivatives market. Her attempts to regulate derivatives ran into fierce resistance from then-Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, then-Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin and then-Deputy Treasury Secretary Larry Summers, who prevailed upon Congress to stop Born and limit future regulation. This is the edited transcript of an interview conducted on Aug. 28, 2009.


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## faithmarie




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## lazydaisy67

I wish I could understand this better. I just don't get where it's heading. Sure, I understand the word "collapse", but what does that look like for simple, poor folk like me? I don't have an investment portfolio. I just have a mortgage. When the banks fail will they put a padlock on my front door? It's a pretty practical and important question in my mind.


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## db2469

It's just more of what we've heard from John Williams and others and it's these dangers that many of us here fear and why we're prepping....we have very few natural disasters where I live. The very real possibility of economic collapse is what motivates me to prep!


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## LincTex

lazydaisy67 said:


> I just have a mortgage. When the banks fail will they put a padlock on my front door? It's a pretty practical and important question in my mind.


Yes. 
I have my grandfather's old county plats from the 1930's and 40's that show a HUGE amount of land owned by the local bank. Very Scary Stuff. Many farmers had copies of these to show property lines with their neighbor's properties.

The foreclosures were real then and will probably be real again.


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## db2469

LincTex said:


> Yes.
> I have my grandfather's old county plats from the 1930's and 40's that show a HUGE amount of land owned by the local bank. Very Scary Stuff. Many farmers had copies of these to show property lines with their neighbor's properties.
> 
> The foreclosures were real then and will probably be real again.


Nobody knows how this will play out but if the banks collapse leading to a collapse of commerce, food transportation, no mail service, etc...I don't think bank employees will visit every home that has a mortgage and kick them out..


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## LincTex

db2469 said:


> Nobody knows how this will play out but if the banks collapse leading to a collapse of commerce, food transportation, no mail service, etc...I don't think bank employees will visit every home.


We are all assuming that would occur only if "worst case"... what if it gets really, really bad, but not that bad? You would have to assume 100% unemployment for your statement to be correct. If the bank is hiring, people *will* work those jobs.


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## BillS

lazydaisy67 said:


> I wish I could understand this better. I just don't get where it's heading. Sure, I understand the word "collapse", but what does that look like for simple, poor folk like me? I don't have an investment portfolio. I just have a mortgage. When the banks fail will they put a padlock on my front door? It's a pretty practical and important question in my mind.


A banking collapse will mean that when banks close their depositors lose all their money. That would mean your money, your employer's money, and the money from every person, store, business, school, church, and any other nonprofit entity. Nobody will have money to buy stuff or pay their bills or pay their employees.

A banking collapse won't mean that they'll come and padlock your door. You'll still have to pay your mortgage to somebody. Who that is may take some time to determine. But I expect massive civil unrest will come with a banking collapse and that will be a bigger problem for the government.

I expect a banking collapse to lead to a total economic collapse and the end of the world as we know it.


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## 8thDayStranger

BillS said:


> A banking collapse will mean that when banks close their depositors lose all their money. That would mean your money, your employer's money, and the money from every person, store, business, school, church, and any other nonprofit entity. Nobody will have money to buy stuff or pay their bills or pay their employees.
> 
> A banking collapse won't mean that they'll come and padlock your door. You'll still have to pay your mortgage to somebody. Who that is may take some time to determine. But I expect massive civil unrest will come with a banking collapse and that will be a bigger problem for the government.
> 
> I expect a banking collapse to lead to a total economic collapse and the end of the world as we know it.


So basically if it ALL crumbled, what you can protect is what you get to keep?


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## mojo4

8thDayStranger said:


> So basically if it ALL crumbled, what you can protect is what you get to keep?


Don't worry, I'm sure the banks will land on their feet! Own everything you can, from cars to homes and keep any and all titles with YOU! If you can buy a large safe to hold your cash, PM's, titles and firearms. If you can hold it its yours. If you can't do you truly own it?


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## faithmarie

lazydaisy67 said:


> I wish I could understand this better. I just don't get where it's heading. Sure, I understand the word "collapse", but what does that look like for simple, poor folk like me? I don't have an investment portfolio. I just have a mortgage. When the banks fail will they put a padlock on my front door? It's a pretty practical and important question in my mind.


 I don't know anything about this money stuff either. But I think prepping and getting out of debt is the way to go if possible.
Thats what I love about it here .. people sharing their ideas. Preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. 
My husband has a small plane he and my daughter fly around to nowhere ... I want him to sell it ... It only seats 4 and I have 6 grandchildren and I am never going to fly away from my babies .. so I said in a lovely way SELL the thing. I AM going to win this... LOL They are closing the tower at our little airport and who wants to fly with drones flying around. I Think everyone should be downsizing ... Food and supplies have gone up in leaps and bounds in just 2 years.... Just keep prepping and don't worry about anything else... we can't change anything .. but I still think it is good to have at least a little knowledge about what is going on... most people haven't got a clue... JMHO:flower:


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## 8thDayStranger

All my stuff belongs to me except my house. I paid cash for it in '04 but had to finance it to get my head above water on some stupid debt. I too wonder if they will try to take my house if it all falls. I can fit a lot of bank repo folks on 16 acres but I hate diggin holes.


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## BillS

8thDayStranger said:


> So basically if it ALL crumbled, what you can protect is what you get to keep?


That's what it looks like to me. I don't know what else could happen instead.


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## hiwall

> When the banks fail will they put a padlock on my front door?


There are way too many "ifs" to answer that question. If we have a collapse. If the collapse is bad. If your particular mortgage holder goes bankrupt. If your particular mortgage gets sold to a different bank that stays solvent. If the USA dollar deflates or hyper inflates. If the US dollar is even around after a collapse. No one knows the answer to any of these questions - - we can only give an opinion.


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## cqp33

Prepare for the worst by becoming as self sufficient as possible that way if the worst happens the impact you feel is smaller than if you weren't self sufficient. 

Pay your debts off! I have heard people say, "Why pay off my debts, when inflation starts I will pay them back with dollars worth less!" while this thinking is sound in one sense, freeing yourself from the chains of debt is the best feeling in the world! Owning your deed is important! I myself am less than a year from having the deed to our 34 acres of land and over the last 20 months my wife and I have paid off about $35,000 debt from credit cards/loans and paid another $30,000 towards our land! It has been a great feeling to pay them off, tear them up and close the accounts as "Paid"!

Keep working at being ready, if nothing happens you will be healthier, eat better and spend less at the grocery store for fruits/veggies that have no substance!


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## Country Living

We don't owe anyone anything. Not having the evil debt troll hanging over our heads gives us an immense financial cushion. We're using today's dollars to buy things today, not pay for something we bought a long time ago. For us, there is no such thing as "good" debt (versus "bad" debt). Debt is debt. 

If we cut to the bone, the only things we would continue paying would be property taxes, the electric bill, and an occassional run to the grocery store and gas station (at the same time). TV and Internet are conveniences. We have our own water well and septic which makes things easier. Chickens and a garden make life easier. An added bonus is a farmer about two miles away grows veggies to sell on the side of the road. 

Which reminds me - I need to see how many of the "Forever" stamps and envelopes we have on hand. May have to get more in case we go back to the old way of paying bills. That would be through the mail for those of you younger than 30. :beercheer:


----------



## Country Living

We always keep checks and cash on hand because the local feed store and other small businesses prefer to be paid that way. When an event occurs and there is a group of us needing something from the small business, who do you think will move to the front of the line... cash, card, or store credit?

OTOH, if we are prepared enough for most situations, we shouldn't even be at the feed store, grocery store, gas station, etc. except to "top off" our storage. If we're in urgent need of something, we simply didn't plan right. Those kinds of lessons are painful.

Somewhere I read there was a significant percentage of people who had debit/credit cards and not only never used checks, never had any printed. Probably no cash, either. 

Yep, those kinds of lessons can be painful.


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## db2469

I doubt anyone will accept checks in a bank collapse scenario, it'll be cash only until the dollar collapses as well imo...


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## 8thDayStranger

db2469 said:


> I doubt anyone will accept checks in a bank collapse scenario, it'll be cash only until the dollar collapses as well imo...


Agreed. I personally won't take a check now unless I know you.


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## partdeux

Nobody knows how this will play out...

It can go from status quo to what was portrayed in After Armageddon.


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## db2469

Gee Gerald, why don't you tell us what you really think?!! lol...


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## machinist

*Japan is Imploding-Example for the Dollar*

Japan is coming unwrapped, and may serve to show how this will happen in the US. The prices of their government bonds fell so fast last night that it tripped market "circuit breakers" and caused a halt in trading. The Japanese Central Bank has recently announced they will print money to achieve at least 2% inflation. 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...e-over-10-years-triggers-tse-circuit-breakers

George Soros says it could cause an avalanche selloff of the Yen: 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...lus-may-trigger-yen-avalanche-soros-says.html

Kyle Bass, a respected hedge fund leader, has said for months that Japan will crash next. Looks like he was right on target. 
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-04-04/kyle-bass-japan-will-implode-under-weight-their-debt

Quote from that article:
*"What they are trying to do is devalue the currency to attempt to become more competitive while holding their rates market flat - the economic zealots running the world's central banks believe they can live in that Nirvana - and Bass believes that is not the case, as they will lose control of rates, since leaving the zone of insolvency is impossible now. His advice, "if you're Japanese, spend! or take it out of your country. If you're not, borrow in JPY and invest in productive assets." "*

Good advice if you see this coming, IMHO. 
Bass has a very successful track record.


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## faithmarie

Old but I thought it was worth posting..


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie

GREG HUNTER
Fed Desperately Concerned About the Dollar-Paul Craig Roberts


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## faithmarie

Law Requires Any Consumer Selling Gold To Submit To Fingerprints And Mugshots

Last week the Houston City Council passed an ordinance requiring people who sell precious metals to be fingerprinted and photographed. According to KTRK-TV, the ordinance is "meant to help track down criminals who try to resell stolen valuables."

"Gold-buying businesses will now be required to photograph and fingerprint sellers as well as photograph the items that are being sold to the dealer."

In other words, citizens who sell gold will be considered criminals until they demonstrate otherwise.


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## machinist

LISTEN UP FOLKS! 

The two earlier posts by faithmarie with videos by Jim Willie and Dr. Paul Craig Roberts are the best I have seen yet explaining the effects of the dollar collapse. They give us some real good info on HOW it will work, so we have a chance to GET OUT OF THE WAY! 

As Roberts makes clear, we are headed for being a 3rd world country, and the change will not be easy. Having some knowledge of what to expect is absolutely crucial to surviving this. 

faithmarie's last post, regarding the ill treatment for gold sellers in Houston, is a harbinger of things to come, and also shows how desperate the Fed is to keep the gold price down. I would think that there will come a time when the US again makes gold ownership either untenable (taxed too much), or outright illegal to own. A dying creature will lash out at anything in its' reach, so GET OUT OF THE WAY!

Watching the dollar collapse is NOT a spectator sport! You WILL be more than just involved, you will be a committed part of it. Let's define those words. Consider a bacon and egg breakfast. The chicken was "involved", but the pig was COMMITTED! 

Likewise, when the dollar loses a dramatic amount of its' value, everyone is affected. I have heard percentage guesstimates recently of losing anywhere from 50% to 80% of its' purchasing power. That will put a serious crimp in anyone's budget.


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## invision

machinist said:


> LISTEN UP FOLKS!
> 
> The two earlier posts by faithmarie with videos by Jim Willie and Dr. Paul Craig Roberts are the best I have seen yet explaining the effects of the dollar collapse. They give us some real good info on HOW it will work, so we have a chance to GET OUT OF THE WAY!
> 
> As Roberts makes clear, we are headed for being a 3rd world country, and the change will not be easy. Having some knowledge of what to expect is absolutely crucial to surviving this.
> 
> faithmarie's last post, regarding the ill treatment for gold sellers in Houston, is a harbinger of things to come, and also shows how desperate the Fed is to keep the gold price down. I would think that there will come a time when the US again makes gold ownership either untenable (taxed too much), or outright illegal to own. A dying creature will lash out at anything in its' reach, so GET OUT OF THE WAY!
> 
> Watching the dollar collapse is NOT a spectator sport! You WILL be more than just involved, you will be a committed part of it. Let's define those words. Consider a bacon and egg breakfast. The chicken was "involved", but the pig was COMMITTED!
> 
> Likewise, when the dollar loses a dramatic amount of its' value, everyone is affected. I have heard percentage guesstimates recently of losing anywhere from 50% to 80% of its' purchasing power. That will put a serious crimp in anyone's budget.


Oh, I agree with the fact that it will put a crimp on anyone's budget... Today I stopped in my local small Publix grocery store for a few items:
- a six pack of Dt Mt Dew bottles for the wife
- 2 bags of Lays Potato Chips Family Size
- 1 hillshire farms large container of honey ham
- 1 hillshire farms large container of turkey
- 1 hillshire farms container of hard salami
- 2 rolls of French Bread
- 1 package of provolone cheese
- 1 jar of pickle spears

Total out the door : $48

Tonight's diner was toasted subs with some chips and a couple of pickle spears... Now granted we didn't use all the food, and I have enough for lunches for Thursday and Friday... But seriously $48?!?

Why do you think the fed dropped the core CPI from inflation calculations... In the past six months, I have seen price for 2 liters of Dt Dr Pepper jump - from $10/10 to 2/$3 and now they are $1.68 per.... In the mean time they are putting out 1.5L bottles that are $1.25/ and running specials of 10/$10.... Yep signs of real inflation are starting to show... IMO.


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## Woody

They have been showing for a long time but only in the past year or so have they really started to soar. At least in my neck of the woods.


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## faithmarie

Peter Schiff ... about the economy ....


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## LincTex

invision said:


> In the past six months, I have seen price for 2 liters of Dt Dr Pepper jump - from $10/10 to 2/$3 ...


Local convenience store has 1 liter bottles of FUZE tea for $1.00... everything else is just nuts. 
$1.59 for 16oz soft drinks! 
1 liter Coke/Pepsi/Pepper are $1.99

I used to buy 24 cans of Coke for $2.99 on sale, just 15 years ago. Up to $6 now. 1lb 80/20 ground chuck is over $3 now, too!


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## invision

LincTex said:


> Local convenience store has 1 liter bottles of FUZE tea for $1.00... everything else is just nuts.
> $1.59 for 16oz soft drinks!
> 1 liter Coke/Pepsi/Pepper are $1.99
> 
> I used to buy 24 cans of Coke for $2.99 on sale, just 15 years ago. Up to $6 now. 1lb 80/20 ground chuck is over $3 now, too!


Got you beat there bud...

1lb of 80/20 ground chuck is $4.08/lb here in Atlanta... Krogers and Publix both same price...


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## faithmarie

Greg Hunter

Cyprus Fighting $500 Milliion+ Gold Sale, North Korea Threats, US Navy L

- Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel said North Korea was "skating very close to a dangerous line." Incendiary things have been said in the past by North Korea, but nothing coming close to what's been going on in recent weeks. In the Middle East, the U.S. Navy has moved a laser attack weapon to the Persian Gulf. It is reportedly a prototype, but I'll bet it works just fine. Cyprus is fighting a $500 million sale of its gold as part of a bailout deal. The EU wants to take 10 tons of gold, but it is not a done deal. Join Greg Hunter of USAWatchdog.com as he gives his analysis of these stories and more on the Weekly News Wrap-Up.


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## faithmarie

"Bank-Run" Clarifications

Published on Apr 11, 2013
This video will show why direct deposit into your bank account is much better than a paper check. I also get into a discussion of global economic events and the "hidden" problem just behind the curtain.






I just thought I would post this ...


----------



## BillS

machinist said:


> LISTEN UP FOLKS!
> 
> Likewise, when the dollar loses a dramatic amount of its' value, everyone is affected. I have heard percentage guesstimates recently of losing anywhere from 50% to 80% of its' purchasing power. That will put a serious crimp in anyone's budget.


The dollar will eventually lose 100% of its value. It's estimated that 90% of the dollars in existence are held by foreign countries for use in trade. OPEC sells oil in dollars. Every country that buys oil from them has to stockpile dollars for that purpose. Eventually OPEC will stop accepting dollars in payment for oil. The dollar could lose 90% of its value virtually overnight. Then panic selling of the dollar will begin around the world. We could see a loaf of bread go from $2 to $20 to $200 to $2,000 in a very short time. If a loaf of bread hits $20 most people will starve. It's that simple.

Germany had hyperinflation in the 1920's. It used to take 4 German marks to buy 1 dollar. After a few years it took a billion marks to buy 1 dollar. That's where we're headed.

John Williams said that America is headed for hyperinflation. He defined it this way: hyperinflation is when the largest bill in circulation is so worthless that people use them for toilet paper.

Check out the pictures. One is a sign in a country that borders on Zimbabwe. The sign by the toilet says, "No Zim Dollars". The other is for a buffet in a hotel in Zimbabwe.


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## BillS

Here's another picture from Weimar Germany.


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## machinist

An old joke:
"Only the govt. can take 2 useful commodities like paper and ink, and use them to make something totally worthless like dollars." I heard that many times in the late 1970's through 1980 when inflation was running 15% to 20% or more a year.


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## UncleJoe

invision said:


> Why do you think the fed dropped the core CPI from inflation calculations... In the past six months, I have seen price for 2 liters of Dt Dr Pepper jump - from $10/10 to 2/$3 and now they are $1.68 per.... In the mean time they are putting out 1.5L bottles that are $1.25/ and running specials of 10/$10.... Yep signs of real inflation are starting to show... IMO.





LincTex said:


> Local convenience store has 1 liter bottles of FUZE tea for $1.00... everything else is just nuts.
> $1.59 for 16oz soft drinks!
> 1 liter Coke/Pepsi/Pepper are $1.99
> 
> I used to buy 24 cans of Coke for $2.99 on sale, just 15 years ago. Up to $6 now. 1lb 80/20 ground chuck is over $3 now, too!


I've seen this with pasta as well. The "bonus buy" price was 1lb box, 10/$10. About 3 months ago the new "special" changed to 3/$5. Thankfully we bought several totes full at the old price.


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## invision

So then, what do we all think the real line of inflation is... We all know the fed wants to keep inflation low because interest rates are low to force spending vs savings... 

Can we find a way to justify numbers as well?


----------



## LincTex

invision said:


> So then, what do we all think the real line of inflation is... ?


Well, the way I see it is this... stuff that used to cost $2 now costs $4, and stuff that once was $10 is now $20, and gas is around $3.50 a gallon when it was $1.35.... all in the last ten years. It sounds to me pretty much like 100% (twice as much money needed to buy the same goods) and it SUCKS!!!


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## BillS

invision said:


> So then, what do we all think the real line of inflation is... We all know the fed wants to keep inflation low because interest rates are low to force spending vs savings...
> 
> Can we find a way to justify numbers as well?


According to shadowstats.com, the real inflation rate is about 10%.

The Fed doesn't really care what interest rates are because they'll keep interest rates low no matter what and print whatever money the government can't borrow.


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## MDsapper

so basicly i need to buy as much silver and lead as i can before shtf?


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## UncleJoe

MDsapper said:


> so basicly i need to buy as much silver and lead as i can before shtf?


If you don't already have it, good luck with the lead.


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## MDsapper

i have a good amount already, but i'm always on the lookout for more when i have cash to spare


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## JayJay

I've seen this with pasta as well. The "bonus buy" price was 1lb box, 10/$10. About 3 months ago the new "special" changed to 3/$5. Thankfully we bought several totes full at the old price. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I have a few totes also.
But still when I see it for .88 cents or $1, I buy 10.


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## UncleJoe

The local Dollar Store will occasionally have a 2lb bag of pasta for $1. If they have when I have a chance to stop in, I'll pick up 4-5 bags.


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie

Gold and Silver Sell-Off a Nonevent-Rick Rule






Apr 14, 2013
Rick Rule, Chairman and founder of Sprott USA, says Cyprus is a stunning example of why people should store some wealth in precious metals. Rule contends, "If you were a Cypriot citizen and you had stored your wealth in gold and silver as opposed to having your money on deposit in a Cypriot bank, the Cypriot banking crisis, for you, would be interesting but not relevant." If there is war in Korea, Rule predicts, "If a nuke goes off on the Korean Peninsula, the first move in precious metals would be down. . . . The second move would be higher. I also believe precious metals would hold their value over time UNLIKE most other asset classes." Join Greg Hunter as he goes One-on-One with precious metals expert Rick Rule.


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie




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## BillS

Good video.


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## Mortblanc

I started prepping because financial collapse was imminent,,,

Back in 1974!!!

Since then we have been through two major and one minor recession and at least 4 stock market bubble bursts,

And financial collapse is still imminent,

and still has not happened.

But if it does I am prepared!!

I have been practicing being broke all my life, so I am well trained and will never notice!


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## machinist

Mortblanc,

Welcome to the forum and the chaos here!

Your experience sounds *very* familiar. I think the idea is that we accept responsibility for our own future, instead of depending on someone or something to take care of us. That makes sense to me, whether the economy holds together, or not. Personally, I don't have much doubt that it will fall apart due to too much excess for too long.


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie

I don't know if this is posted anywhere else here... I looked but didn't find it.


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## BillS

I agree with some of what Denninger says but disagree on other parts. Obamacare isn't a form of government stupidity. It's a way to decide who lives and who dies. It gives government control over people's lives and that's what they want. Guess what? Do you think being a vocal opponent of Obama won't affect your ability to get healthcare for you and your family? Do you think there won't be favoritism among who gets cancer treatments and who doesn't?

The Fed's money printing hasn't stopped working. It's just lost it's effectiveness at the level they're doing it at. Expect to see money printing increase.

He doesn't understand drug pricing either. Drugs cost what they cost based on all the research necessary into coming up with new drugs and getting them approved. Drugs are more expensive in America because the government doesn't restrict the price of those drugs like other countries do. So, in effect, Americans are paying for 100% of drug company's R & D.


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## BillS

Fake gold and silver is one of the reasons I only buy junk silver.


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## BillS




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## Foreverautumn

cqp33 said:


> Prepare for the worst by becoming as self sufficient as possible that way if the worst happens the impact you feel is smaller than if you weren't self sufficient.
> 
> Pay your debts off! I have heard people say, "Why pay off my debts, when inflation starts I will pay them back with dollars worth less!" while this thinking is sound in one sense, freeing yourself from the chains of debt is the best feeling in the world! Owning your deed is important! I myself am less than a year from having the deed to our 34 acres of land and over the last 20 months my wife and I have paid off about $35,000 debt from credit cards/loans and paid another $30,000 towards our land! It has been a great feeling to pay them off, tear them up and close the accounts as "Paid"!
> 
> Keep working at being ready, if nothing happens you will be healthier, eat better and spend less at the grocery store for fruits/veggies that have no substance!


AMEN to that! I'm less than year away from getting out of debt, myself! While I'll still have some economic worries about unexpected expenses, economic crashes, or job loss, I'll be THAT MUCH BETTER ABLE TO DEAL WITH THEM!


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