# Calorie book and a balance scale



## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I just added a few things to my need to get list. 

I've come to use the Internet for many things which is good now, but I don't have a book with calorie counts for many items. I also have battery dependent scales for lighter items in redundancy, but what about when there's no more batteries?

For food bartering, portion control, and other essential post SHTF situations, food is going to be critical and these two items, easy to get now, might be worth having for then.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

The scales? ... maybe. Of course how are you going to persuade anyone the scales are accurate?

Counting calories? ... Don't think so. Between military chow halls and camp cooks I don't know of anyone who uses calories to determine portion sizes.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

SurviveNthrive - you and I are very different preppers.  (Which is not a bad thing) ... we just look at things with different eyes. (For each their own. )

I have more than a few older cookbooks that have calorie counts but I do not see myself putting them to use. 

A battery dependent scales - Yes, I have one along with a 'balance scale" I use them for canning an my herbs and such...but I do not see them for food bartering or portion control ...

but that is just me.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

In very lean times, counting calories is precisely what the sharper individuals will do, almost at a religious level.

Now take a second to reconsider things, in a historic and pragmatic matter. This is where comprehensively thinking things through matters in preparedness. I'm writing to those who are doing preparedness in depth and wish to preserve options by having assets, not only in long term storage food items but also in means of measuring their value.

The scales.

_The scales? ... maybe. Of course how are you going to persuade anyone the scales are accurate?_

How can a balance scale be inaccurate? It either balances or it does not, that's why they're used and trusted world wide. The weighs might be potentially off, but the scale is based on _balance_. There are known weight items such as coins which can be used to gauge the weights so that's not a problem.

_Counting calories? ... Don't think so. Between military chow halls and camp cooks I don't know of anyone who uses calories to determine portion sizes._

That's because you're dealing with spoons at too low a level. There's a difference between some private or specialist spooning out portions, the Sergeant supervising them and the Senior NCO who is a trained nutritionist. I'm sure that the senior Noncoms and the OIC are very aware of portion control and calorie counts. Having periodically served, in an additional duty capacity, as an OIC for a large mess hall, the senior NCO's I dealt with understood portion control and calories.

Post SHTF we aren't likely to have an abundance of food where it doesn't matter, we can get enough of what we need amid the excess. We'll have to be our own nutritionists making decisions on what is worth pursuing and not worth working toward and that takes knowledge.

Effective portion control is critical to rationing. Determining how large a portion of dry cereal, salt, TVP and other items should be is important.

_I have more than a few older cookbooks that have calorie counts but I do not see myself putting them to use.

A battery dependent scales - Yes, I have one along with a 'balance scale" I use them for canning an my herbs and such...but I do not see them for food bartering or portion control ...

but that is just me. _

Food value includes different aspects, including beyond taste and variety, calories, nutrition and lipids.

Now suppose you have someone wishing to trade a food item for another food item that you have in quantity. I want to make an informed decision before I do so.

*A fundamental of 'trade' is understanding the value of what you're willing to part with and the value of what you're seeking.*

Preparedness is about preserving options.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

But you see ... that is where we are very different ... I don't have anything to trade ... (like I said ... I see things with different eyes)

And to be honest ... anyone that makes it to my house 'to trade' ... well ... something is just not right.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

All us paper currency weighs exactly 1 gram, assuming it is not wet or damp.

In my youth I used this method to verify the accuracy of a persons scales. 

My understanding is that the method of weighing money was used by organized crime before counting machines as well. Of course I have not tried it with the new funny money. Even if money has no value it will still be useful as a calibration tool. Try it...


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Scales and calorie counts after TSHTF? I don't think so, not here anyway! That's thinking too hard, and we'll have much more to do and think about than that. In this area here, people would thknk we were snobs or crooks if we were that "precise"! 

I don't even worrry about things like calorie counts. We produce nearly all our own food, so I'm pretty confident in the healthfulness of it, and portion size is mostly what we pay attention to. That's primarily to use our resources wisely. 

I suspect out in this woods, barter would consist of a handful or two of this for a handful or two of that. 

However, I do respect that in other locales, people might wish to be more..."civilized" or exact.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> In very lean times, counting calories is precisely what the sharper individuals will do, almost at a religious level.
> 
> Now take a second to reconsider things, in a historic and pragmatic matter. This is where comprehensively thinking things through matters in preparedness. I'm writing to those who are doing preparedness in depth and wish to preserve options by having assets, not only in long term storage food items but also in means of measuring their value.
> 
> ...


Got news for you ... if you have lots of extra food stored and don't have to grow your own and if you have a large group maybe you'll spend lots of time precisely counting calories and measuring things out but if you have to grow your own you aren't going to have time or energy for such foolishness.

Regarding scales? Not all non-electric scales are balance scales. Lots of supermarkets have spring loaded scales in the produce departmets. Many old time grocery stores had spring loaded scales on their counters. Some old scales were balance beam scales. Occasionally you'd even see balance scales with the weight on one side and the merchandise on the other. The point being that there are lots of different types of non-elelctric scales.

Just a question here ... do you actually do anything survival related or are you just one of those who "thinks" about it?


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

_Got news for you ... if you have lots of extra food stored and don't have to grow your own and if you have a large group maybe you'll spend lots of time precisely counting calories and measuring things out but if you have to grow your own you aren't going to have time or energy for such foolishness._

There are some people with the capability of discussion. 
Some issues aren't worth discussing with some people. 
It's silly to waste anything arguing with someone who can't grasp somethings as simple like the value of measurement, portion control and trade.

_Regarding scales? Not all non-electric scales are balance scales. Lots of supermarkets have spring loaded scales in the produce departmets. Many old time grocery stores had spring loaded scales on their counters. Some old scales were balance beam scales. Occasionally you'd even see balance scales with the weight on one side and the merchandise on the other. The point being that there are lots of different types of non-elelctric scales. _

Reading comprehension.

I mentioned specifically balance scales. In normal reading, that excludes a need to bring in problems with other non-electric scales.

But I've already excluded you as being worthy of bringing up discussion.

_Just a question here ... do you actually do anything survival related or are you just one of those who "thinks" about it?_

If you disagree, why do you bother answering my posts? I certainly would prefer to believe that you continue on your way, with your views.

Is to 'think' a bad thing to you?

I think it's hilarious that someone who is 'off the grid' is on the Internet.:nuts:

Since you don't like my posts and don't agree with them, then LOGICALLY, this is the last time I'll see your response to one of them. Bye!:wave:


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Scales and calorie counts after TSHTF? I don't think so, not here anyway! That's thinking too hard, and we'll have much more to do and think about than that. In this area here, people would thknk we were snobs or crooks if we were that "precise"!
> 
> I don't even worrry about things like calorie counts. We produce nearly all our own food, so I'm pretty confident in the healthfulness of it, and portion size is mostly what we pay attention to. That's primarily to use our resources wisely.
> 
> ...


To me preparedness is about preserving options. A balance scale is a wonderful thing to have for many areas of preparedness, including chemistry and the mentioned barter and portion control. Right now I've some nice digital scales, but I'm seriously considering buying a precision balance scale.

One more issue supporting addding a scale to preps:

In many survival situations, one of the sources of dispute is fair food distribution. A scale is useful in eliminating that potential source of strife.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I bought 2 spring loaded scales at auction this past summer. They were cheap and I've considered the possiblity that weighing things like sugar and salt, or smaller portions of grian, may be beneficial.
It says right on the face of the scale; not legal for trade. I wouldn't trust them to be very accurate under 8oz. However, I've tested them and if they are inaccurate, it's to the same degree. If I would ever want to trade with someone based on the weight of a product, I would accept what the scale said since it would be the same inaccuracy for both parties.

Counting calories? Never gonna happen.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Thanks for all the extra info ... 

but once again ... we agree to disagree ...


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

For me, there is only one way that I will be "counting" calories, that is with a teaspoon or a tablespoon or a measuring cup. When mixing ingredients together to make a meal, I will either use the "looks-good-enough" method or the "precise-measurement" method. I know that when I have a pound-of-ground-meat (deer, beef, pork, chicken, etc) I can mix that up with bread-crumbs, an egg and some of my favorite spices to make burgers on the BBQ. I know that pound of meat when combined with a bun, some fresh veggies (lettuce, tomato) and maybe some condiments will leave several people full by the time they finish the simple meal.

To me, that is the only way that the calories will count. Simply, will the person be able to eat the meal set before them and will they be able to work for 4hrs easily from the energy provided by that meal. If the answer is "YES" to both, then it means that the calories counted


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> There are some people with the capability of discussion.
> Some issues aren't worth discussing with some people.
> It's silly to waste anything arguing with someone who can't grasp somethings as simple like the value of measurement, portion control and trade.
> 
> ...


Sorry bud. I thought this was an open forum for discussion of ideas. I was under the impression that discussion was a good thing. It might even shed some light on ideas a person has that aren't as good as they originally thought ... that is if they're teachable.

Now, being an open forum with people reading it who may be misled by bad advice wouldn't it seem logical that discussion (especially divergent views of the OP position) could possibly give them more options to pursue or a better way to evaluate opposite views?

If your posts are not open to discussion you should state it up front. If you are so superior perhaps we ignorant peons should just recognize that and bow to your greater knowledge.

Regarding being off-grid and on the internet? What's the problem there?

And again, in my experience (which could be wrong!) people who think too hard often don't acomplish a lot. Are you actually preparing or just thinking about it? There are people on this forum who live what they post. Because of my background I've always been more impressed by people who "do" than those who just have a bunch of ideas for other people to do.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Dang, ya came back!

_And again, in my experience (which could be wrong!) people who think too hard often don't acomplish a lot_

How does one 'think too hard'? Does that hurt?

I had to play with that one as the concept is amusing.

_Are you actually preparing or just thinking about it? There are people on this forum who live what they post_

Why in Heavens name are you living like the collapse has already happen or we've experienced a natural disaster??? 

That's a MAJOR FAIL in life... who wants to be without electricity and plumbing, living on long-term storage foods, fearing security concerns, and wondering if their source of drinking water is assured and safe???

I shower daily, eat salads and fresh fruit daily. I keep warm or cool in a solid dwelling. Preparedness is about preserving some quality of life. Survivalism is a practice. I don't want to live like TSHTF.

Why in the world would anyone 'live what they post' when discussing post SHTF situations. That's horrific.

I don't believe you really understand PREPAREDNESS. It's call PREPARED Society, not living a truly miserable existence.

_Because of my background I've always been more impressed by people who "do" than those who just have a bunch of ideas for other people to do. _

I've no doubt. That's why you can be 'off the grid' and on the Internet.

But please, you posted you disagree but keep coming back. Some other people might be able to understand preparedness beyond what you think it to be.

Being able to understand food values, nutrition, and calories, and having a scale to measure portions are pretty important things when one is dealing with more than one or two people.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Dang, ya came back!
> 
> _And again, in my experience (which could be wrong!) people who think too hard often don't acomplish a lot_
> 
> ...


Now, this is all just my opinion so please dn't get your drawers in a knot over it!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> _
> I think it's hilarious that someone who is 'off the grid' is on the Internet.:nuts:
> _


_

Interestingly enough, there are quite a few people on this forum who are 'off the grid' and have internet. In our case, 'off the grid' is solar and wind power, which is progressive, not primitive. Going 'off grid' doesn't mean we turned out back on civilization! Now who's being hilarious! 

I also still think there are large rural areas, with which you are assumably not familiar with, that won't function on a level that will require scales and exact measures. Life in rural areas flows to a different current. Not better, not less than urban life.

I'm sure there are people of all different opinions on the need for such things as scales and calorie counteres. I merely wanted to express what I see happening in NW Montana, our home. If you only wanted replies on your posts that agree with you, this wouldn't be a very interesting forum.

_


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I just added a few things to my need to get list.
> 
> I've come to use the Internet for many things which is good now, but I don't have a book with calorie counts for many items.


Google: "The Complete Book of Food Counts" by Corrine Netzer.

Available in various editions and prices on Amazon, etc. I got my copy for 25 cents at a library book sale (in new condition). Awesome book!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

efbjr, good book...thank you, the sort of info I'm looking for.

Mosquito, how about this tact, accepting the fact that you've got the ultimate and enviable survivalist retreat and you're already living the mad max existence where you claim you're writing wolf tickets to the bad guys and they're scared, maybe, just maybe others aren't at the same level as you and they can benefit about thinking about things and like the rest of the ancient, contemporary and future world, they can use a scale at times because they don't have calibrated hands and like most of humanity, they might not possess an innate understanding of nutrition.

I especially liked the critical VCR survivailst tool issue being covered.

One serious prep security issue...if you're living in an area where you personally know the bad guys well enough to personally threaten them and they're not being locked up, maybe, just maybe that's an indicator that there might be more problems once things actually go bad.

One serious prep logistic issue...you say you're already living the life. Are you drilling your own crude oil and refining your own gasoline in your personal distillery? I'm taking you at your word that you're living a post SHTF life, so you're a very unique individual. I don't think Ted Turner has that!

If you're buying any gas, then you know and I know that erodes your credibility because you're living the post SHTF life and gasoline is one of the first things to go.

[I like a good scrap now and then, I hope you feel the same.]


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Everyone has there own way of prepping. Different ideas are always worth hearing until they turn into personal attacks. This thread is turning into a shouting match and nothing good can come from that. Let's put the head butting to rest, act like reasonable adults and agree to disagree if that's what it takes to keep the board civil.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> ...Mosquito, how about this tact, accepting the fact that you've got the ultimate and enviable survivalist retreat and you're already living the mad max existence where you claim you're writing wolf tickets to the bad guys and they're scared, maybe, just maybe others aren't at the same level as you and they can benefit about thinking about things and like the rest of the ancient, contemporary and future world, they can use a scale at times because they don't have calibrated hands and like most of humanity, they might not possess an innate understanding of nutrition.
> 
> Whao dude!!! Maybe you need to do a little work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say I have anyone scared. I just said that there are people who've been advised to stay out of certain places for their own health. Didn't say I did it! I'm a lover not a fighter!
> 
> ...


I don't mind a scrap now and then but tire quickly of people or dogs who make a show of chasing parked cars.

Early on I stated that there may be a use for scales PSHTF but I sure wouldn't advise anyone to spend money on a scale until they've got enough to meet their basic needs. Getting right down to it you can make a crude but accurate balance beam scale with a stick and strings. Why all the hand wringing about scales? Understanding basic facts about nutrition is a good idea. I laughed at the idea of counting calories and still do. I was ROTFL about using a scale to measure portions of food to large numbers of people standing in a chow line and giggle just a bit at the thought of it even now.

The problem is that there are people on this board who don't think all of your ideas are great and you can't seem to handle that. I can't help you there. It's a personal growth issue you'll just have to deal with.

Its a discussion format. People exchange ideas. Some of yours are good ... Some are not so good. Grow up and get over it.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Mosquito, you've stated your opinion. Please, let me find out things from others.

*Back on topic...*

I'm thinking it's a good idea to get a balance scale and I'd like to know more about nutrition and have some hard copies on hard to make sure I know the food values of whatever comes my way.

Seems like simple, common sense steps, but it's amazing how quickly I've converted to using the Internet for things. If the Internet is no longer accessible, I might not have the info I need when I need it the most. By the same token, my scales are all digital, electronic. Correcting these problems won't cost a lot of money. (I'm beginning to wonder what else I naturally use tech for without thinking. Because of GPS, I've nearly stopped using maps, and when I do, I get them online!)

A basic understanding of nutrition and food value will allow for solid decision making regarding what sized portions are appropriate, and how many portions are needed, and how many remain. This is a part of rationing, a practice in the distribution of limited resources. One common problem in determining food value is a listing might be based in volume or weight. Volume or weight needs to be measured by an appropriate means.

In horrific situations, understanding calorie counts helps determine how much longer a person is going to be able to operate on what level of rationing.

That's hardly controversial in most survivalism related realms.

*Has anyone seen a good book that shows how well people (on average) can operated for however long, on different levels of calorie consumption? I'm not familiar with diet books or sports medicine, but I'm searching different relief agency sites to try to find out. The more info I get, the better.*

*Remember, if preparedness and survivalism isn't theoretical, that means you're either in a crisis right now, or you're doing regular life wrong.*


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Mosquito, you've stated your opinion. Please, let me find out things from others. ...*Remember, if preparedness and survivalism isn't theoretical, that means you're either in a crisis right now, or you're doing regular life wrong.*


Lots of room left on the board for opinions other than yours or mine. There have been other opinions offered. Did you read them? Anyone who is a member can post opinions here ... even you! If you've been promoted to administrator status please let me know. Otherwise the decision of who posts on which threads is not yours to make. Are you capable of finding things out from others or are you merely an echo chamber who revels in the sound of his own voice ... and ignores those whose opinion might differ?

Quite frankly, you are way out of line to ask anyone to not post on this forum.

Now, for the important issue here:

Being prepared is more than a list and a bunch of ideas. I can assemble a pile of camping gear and believe I'm prepared to hit the woods and survive in style ... until I try it in a rainstorm and find out the tent leaks or the door is designed in such a way that everything inside gets soaked whenever someone enters or exits. I can buy the most expensive boots LL Bean has to offer and think I'm all set until I take a five mile hike in them and get laid up for three days while the blisters heal. I can believe I'm a homeopathic healer until I get dried and cracked feet and find out the "remedy" I relied on doesn't work. I can have tons of wheat stored then find out I don't know how to cook with it or how to grind it into flour. I can believe I'm Rambo then play a game of paintball and get taken out in the first 100 yards by a twelve-year-old kid. I can believe I'm a great wilderness survival expert until I go out in the wilderness and try to start a fire and can't do it!!! I can think I'm prepared with everything I need to start a fire in the wilderness. I commonly carry matches in waterproof case, a butane lighter and a magnesium fire starter. It was raining heavily so I thought I'd try my fire starting just to see if I could. My matches disintegrated (the "waterproof" case wasn't ... waterproof that is!) The striker wheel on the lighter went flying off into the woods when I tried it. The flints were launched at the same time the wheel came off. I ended up starting the fire with a magnesium fire starter but it took about an hour due to the wind and rain. What if I had waited until I was cold and wet and my life was in danger to try this out? I've done a lot of practicing since then under adverse conditions and I carry things to make starting a fire in a storm under emergency conditions much faster and more sure. And I've learned what things I can find in the woods to help in starting fires plus I can start fires with a bow-drill and flint and steel. Practice!!! Own the skills!!! having a great library on how to start a fire is just a prerequisite ... the first step!!! Just talk! Have you actually shut off the electricity and water in the winter to simulate a power outage from a storm or earthquake to test your preps? If not you don't have a clue whether you've prepared adequately. Have you ever done any bartering? If not then you don't have a clue if what you think will work will actually work! AT LEAST twice a year my wife and I walk to town and back home. That's 15 miles round trip. We've learned a lot of things doing that. We learned that our ice cleats (yes, we've done it when the temperature was around zero farenheit) wear blisters on the balls of our feet so we've made changes to the way we use them. This is not a game. When TSHTF is not the time to get out the books or run to the store to shore up the things you thought you had covered but didn't. Smart preppers test everything before they need it. It isn't theory! It's no place for armchair warriors and REMF's.

If you think you're a prepper or survivalist because you "research" issues and stock up supplies but have never tested these things for functionality and practicality ... ESPECIALLY UNDER ADVERSE CONDITIONS ... then you are no asset in a survival situation. You're just another oversize mouth run by an undersize brain.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

The Ultimate Calorie Counter by Sheila Buff.

It not only has calorie counts, it has information about nutritional needs.

For anyone who thinks that's an important thing for prepping, you should probably get a copy of the book now so that you can stock food according to what foods you see yourself needing to eat.

The rest of us will stick to our gardens and the meat we raise/hunt, etc.

Not all of us thrive on the same lifestyle. My life has been one of joy and spontaneity, and a contented, laid-back frame of mind can go a long way in promoting health of body, too.

So, whatever you thrive on, do so. Don't stress over people who have different needs and choices.

This isn't a competition or a campaign.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Thank you gypsySue, I'm amassing hard copies of things now. 

It's ironic that in some realms I'm beginning to think of pulp and ink books as obsolete and I am working toward finding ways of keeping ebooks going, but I definitely want several relevant books.


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## Aemilia (May 27, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I'm thinking it's a good idea to get a balance scale and I'd like to know more about nutrition and have some hard copies on hard to make sure I know the food values of whatever comes my way.


I think learning about nutrition is a great idea, but I wouldn't start with calories. And from what I read, don't worry to much about them. Hunger and excess fat are still the best ways to tell. You could have two people, same stature, and their calorie needs are probably different. How much lean mass/ muscle do they have? Muscle uses more calories than fat. How much work do they do? Hard work needs more calories. What are their genetic tendancies or deficiencies? For example I had a scrawny dog I pumped food into (yes he was wormed). He ate more than my both other dogs combined, and one of those was twice his weight!

Anyway, here my favorite health blog: Mark's Daily Apple. Not to applicable to storing up food though. If you want to keep something, print it or buy a book. But the best thing is to internalize the information, then you'll always have it with you. I read a lot, I've talked to different people (one was a celiac - she knows a lot about nutrition), I'm pretty confident in my knowledge. People have been eating for centuries after all. :beercheer:

For fun, here are my food "rules":

If you're fat, eat less (that's me atm). If you're hungry eat more.
Eat real food when possible - avoid excess processing, long labels, and words you can't pronounce.
Eat a variety. (In a survival situation that might not be possible, especially here in winter. In that case have carbs (rice/wheat), proteins (beans) and fats (oils or peanut butter?) and take a vitamin for insurance.)

@MMM - I'm going to take the kids out to make a fire today. But I think we'll use something easier than magnesium today (no, not gasoline or the torch!). It's already wet outside.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

that's sound, for now, but what I'm thinking about is when we don't have that many resources and they become precious and more carefully used.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

SNT, can you print up some of the better information and useful things from the internet and put them in a 3-ring binder? Forgive me if you've already thought of that.

Aemilia, one of the things you said is one of the most sensible things I've seen on this thread yet: "You could have two people, same stature, and their calorie needs are probably different."

This is very true. I'm assuming in a group situation, whoever is measuring out calories/portions would be taking this into account? Age, stature, work load. I'm not sure how you'd take into account individual metabolism.

My Dad could eat a dozen donuts and not gain a pound, and my sister and I would each gain 5 lbs. just watching him...


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

gypsySue, Amelia

You two are hitting on one of the many things in this area that includes nutrition, calorie counts, portioning, and metablism I want to know about. What is the most truly efficient way for most people?

for example, I've seen some people who eat and operate in a different, almost old fashioned way. I sponsored an Army Officer from Yeman. His intake of food and water was very different from us. Despite us being in the Desert (Ft. Bliss), he took in levels of water that would have left us dehydrated. He ate very seldom and no, not small amounts. This contrasted with some Saudis and Kuwaitis I knew. He did live a rough life in a rural part of his country and he told me that others ate like him in his region.

A friend of mine and his wife ate in a different manner back when they were really active. They might go a long period between eating. Then they'd eat a surprising amount, but sometimes just one item like a big butter and garlic friend ribeye each. The next day they might have salad. Once they stopped doing this they got less active, and ate normal meals they put on weight. 


I'd like to know this regarding how our bodies process the most efficiently: Is is better to eat small amounts of one thing periodically, or larger quantities of several different things with longer gaps between. We've so much research on dieting, but probably much less on making the most efficient use of limited resources. With our abundance, I bet we waste a lot and some of eating practices probably are about fuel, labor and food trade offs.





I'm going to find out about the 'eating for your blood type' thing, but there's so much to learn about.

I'd like to have a solid knowledge base.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Very good discussion points. There are so many eating styles and habits. I prefer to nibble all day long, my husband prefers 3 specific meals at pretty much the same times each day. I don't know if those are requirments of our individual bodies or habits we've formed over our lives? Could they, and should they, be changed? If so, what is healthy?

I hope other people will jump in here with their thoughts.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

SurviveNthrive said:


> gypsySue, Amelia
> 
> You two are hitting on one of the many things in this area that includes nutrition, calorie counts, portioning, and metablism I want to know about. What is the most truly efficient way for most people?


Sounds to me like you will need to go back to school and become a Registerd Dietitian in order to figure out the details that you are very interested in working with.

Personally, like I said before, stuff a person full and make them work - keep the left-overs for another meal .. :beercheer:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> ...Personally, like I said before, stuff a person full and make them work - keep the left-overs for another meal .. :beercheer:


Keep the leftovers for another meal!?!?!?  If there's nothing left on the plate how're you gonna get the dog to lick it clean? :gaah:


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## Aemilia (May 27, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> My Dad could eat a dozen donuts and not gain a pound, and my sister and I would each gain 5 lbs. just watching him...


I know - me too! The gaining part, not the eating part! :gaah: This _proves_ that life isn't fair, LOL!

I don't know about finding out on how much per person. I think it sounds like a nightmare and that you don't trust these people. I mean, I never got that dog figured out. With seven years to do it! And he wasn't mouthy like people would be. If it was me, I'd have a serving spoon like in "At War With the Army" (guess what movie I watched last night) and plop one scoop on each tray. Or two, whatever. Do you trust these people you'll be with?

And don't stuff people to full - don't want them to waddle... :threadbump:

Personally if the food was running out, I'd guess we'd divide it up (that will depend on the group - hope you will be having people who don't mutiny) and get our backsides out to get more.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> The scales? ... maybe. Of course how are you going to persuade anyone the scales are accurate?
> 
> Counting calories? ... Don't think so. Between military chow halls and camp cooks I don't know of anyone who uses calories to determine portion sizes.


MMM in 1962 I was with a small unit of Marines who went to FT Ord for some extra training... the Army was doing a Calorie count based on the training day of the recruits going thru boot camp... it was a complete flop.. and I believe they dropped it pretty fast.. they tried that chit with us and almost had a war.. the Corp was paying for our chow and it got changed for us.. I felt so sorry for those kids going thru boot... remember chow in our boot camp??? we stuffed ourselves and the fat guys lost and the skinnys gained... never knew how that worked..

SNT your working too hard at making something outta nothing.. working hard requires eating well , not fancy but well... in a SHTF your either fed or dead... low cals can lead to weak body functions leading to dead...

But if it makes you happy then hop right to it!..


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> MMM ... remember chow in our boot camp??? we stuffed ourselves and the fat guys lost and the skinnys gained... never knew how that worked...


Yeah, I remember those days. You learn to eat fast ... VERY fast! If you needed to lose weight they'd sometimes make you do without desert. If you were skinny you sometimes got extra food (if you could eat fast enough to get it all down in time!). I lost about 20 pounds and had friends gain that much. One thing they told us on entering boot camp was that our clothes we wore coming in would not fit us when we left. They were right in most cases.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> MMM in 1962 I was with a small unit of Marines who went to FT Ord for some extra training... the Army was doing a Calorie count based on the training day of the recruits going thru boot camp... it was a complete flop.. and I believe they dropped it pretty fast.. they tried that chit with us and almost had a war.. the Corp was paying for our chow and it got changed for us.. I felt so sorry for those kids going thru boot... remember chow in our boot camp??? we stuffed ourselves and the fat guys lost and the skinnys gained... never knew how that worked..
> 
> SNT your working too hard at making something outta nothing.. working hard requires eating well , not fancy but well... in a SHTF your either fed or dead... low cals can lead to weak body functions leading to dead...
> 
> But if it makes you happy then hop right to it!..


Yeah...that hardly sounds credible. The Quartermaster Corps has been working on figuring appropriate rations since George Washington and they do have a pretty good idea on what nutrition is about. Their primary problem is a matter of reshuffling, and developing rations that provide adequate nutrition that are going to be eaten by troops.

*What utterly amazes me isn't the fact that we have people who don't believe that having an ability to measure weights post SHTF, especially in food, and having some knowledge of the nutrition value of food in hard copy would be useful, they want to express that, and say it's unnecessary! We have people who actually believe that scales and nutrition information aren't of any value in preparedness and they disagree that it's useful to have. They also appear to be against the idea of portion control and developing rationing plans.*

I'll tell ya what. It's good you guys have the 'stuff yourself until you're full' version of survivalism. Well thought out, great long-planning...I'm sure there's some great fiscal advice coming from that same mindset.

Some seriously have a long-term food storage plan based on eating until full, with no understanding regarding nutrition, how long available food will last?

You do consider storing some food, right? Do you have any idea how much is needed, based on the duration of your anticipated scenarios? Do such people simply assume that food will be there?

This would be a great conversation:

How long a scenario do you plan for?

_Six months._

How much food did you put away for that?

_I don't know._

How do you know that your preps will last six months? How many calories per day, per person are set for that?

_I don't know. We just eat until we're not hungry._

What if your consumption rates vary dramatically with exposure to the elements and harder work?

_I don't know. We just eat until we're not hungry, for six months._

Without knowing consumption rates and available calories or portions, how do you know you have six months?

_I don't know. We just eat until we're not hungry, for six months._

Post TEOTWAWKI, as you don't know when your food will run out, and odds are, without some solid estimates, it's going to run out sooner than expected, what will you do when it runs out?

_I don't know. We just eat until we're not hungry, for six months. Then we'll just go to Winco and buy more._

I wonder if such a person even has a clue as to how scarce food can become during a crisis.

If ya can't understand why humanity has had scales and why we learned about nutrition, please, go ahead doing your 'preps' as you see fit, but do move on to other posts. It's irrelevant if you can't understand scales and nutrition, *I'm trying to connect with those who do their preps in an orderly, well thought out way.*

How about those who are at a different level be able to connect with folks who do things differently, maybe _intelligently_?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

SurviveNthrive said:


> It's irrelevant if you can't understand scales and nutrition, I'm trying to connect with those who do their preps in an orderly way.
> 
> How about those who are at a different level be able to connect with folks who do things differently, maybe _intelligently_?


We're slipping back into a shouting match and personal attacks again. If you can't make your point without slapping individuals, this thread will come to an end.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Uncle Joe...

Might as well...if the notion of having a balance scale and a means of determining food values is controversial, and we can't move onto a discussion on how to best decide on managing and selecting long-term storage food, how to conduct potential trade, etc. with out someone having to post 'eat until full' then there's no use in continuing this thread.


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## brucehylton (Nov 6, 2010)

Is a gram balance scale going to be of any use?


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Why a gram balance scale?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Why a gram balance scale?


:scratch Because it's the international unit of measurement and almost everything we buy has a metric unit on the label.

I agree. This thread has run it's course.


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