# BullDozer's Prepping update thread!



## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

:wave: Allright guys, This is a thread dedicated to my preps, BOBs, skill-sets, and different things I learn through the years. Kind of like a blog...

So, As you all know Christmas is around the bend and the Folks are asking me what I want. I know I want a 2nd gun, (my 1st being a H&R Pardner Pump in 12 ga.) But I do not know what I want, I have narrowed my choices down.

1. Mosin Nagant
2. .22lr Rifle (10/22 is out of my price range)
3. Chinese Mosin Nagant Carbine Copy (forget technical name)
4. Single shot .410

So, what do you guys think? :dunno: I am having trouble because my gun would definitely be too bulky (long barrel, Heavy stock) and too short-range (it is a shotgun) to take on a bug-out. I wanted something that I could use for defense, but I am trying to weigh out wether to go the Hunting gun route, or the Combat gun route. Because, when looters attack my camp, I don't want to be defending with Grandpa's Savage .22

Any help would be appreciated!!!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Mettc dependent. What 8s the terrain in your area? Is this for hunting or self defense? What will you be hunting? What is your proficiency level with a rifle? 

Im assuming by your choice selection you are looking for something you can take game with. My advice is to get a rifle capable of taking larger game and buy some connibear 110 traps for small game harvesting. A nagant would be a good choice. Any 308 or 30 06 would work well. Im a big fan of a garand if thats not out of your price range. If self defense is the goal you may wish to consider something that will take a larger capacity magazine. My 2 cents.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

BullDozer said:


> :wave: Allright guys, This is a thread dedicated to my preps, BOBs, skill-sets, and different things I learn through the years. Kind of like a blog...
> 
> So, As you all know Christmas is around the bend and the Folks are asking me what I want. I know I want a 2nd gun, (my 1st being a H&R Pardner Pump in 12 ga.) But I do not know what I want, I have narrowed my choices down.
> 
> ...


There are a variety of ways to look at firearms. I tend to categorize them into 4 categories that are not interchangeable: 1) Center Fire Rifle for larger game or combat, 2) shotgun, 3) Rimfire for small game, 4) handguns.

Of these you have covered #2 shotgun, so scratch the .410 for the moment. That leaves you with either a center fire or rimfire rifle, but these are not nterchangeable in their use. You say a 10/22 is out of your price range. Since this is the most common .22 around, you might want to look for a good used example.

That leaves a Mosin or a Chinese copy in the center fire rifle category. Mosins are interesting for their history, durability and low cost, but they use an odd caliber that may seem cheap now, but will likely be expensive when the surplus dries up. The Chinese versions tend to be in much worse shape than the Russian versions.

If you already had a good center fire rifle, a Mosin might be viable as a backup or trade goods item, but as a prepper I wouldn't recommend it as your only center fire rifle.

Bottom line, save your money and get that 10/22.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Marlin 795 or 60 series in .22LR. Lighter, thinner and more accurate than a 10/22 for less than half the price. The 795 uses magazines where the 60 has a magazine tube. Either model will serve you well. Then down the road I would start looking at centerfire rifles. By the way the Chinese Mosin is called the Type 53.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> Marlin 795 or 60 series in .22LR. Lighter, thinner and more accurate than a 10/22 for less than half the price. The 795 uses magazines where the 60 has a magazine tube. Either model will serve you well. Then down the road I would start looking at centerfire rifles. By the way the Chinese Mosin is called the Type 53.


Hey, Thanks Sentry! my 10/22 problem is not about me saving up, It is about a set price limit for a gift. I was looking at the Marlin 795 and It has a track record to Jam, So do you have any other options? I am really worried about SHTF really soon and my 12 being my only practical defense weapon.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

You have ta decide what yall really wan't it fer. Defence, the 22 will work, but really ain't the best choice. Ya got a shotgun, fer closer deffence it'll do just fine. Lookin ta put food on the table, the 22 be choice. Shop roun the pawn stores, they get 22's quite often. 

Bad thin bout 22 right now be ya can't find any ammo. It'll come back, but when be the question.

As fer mossin rounds runnin out, not anytime soon. Billions a them rounds was produced an it be priced so ya can keep it on hand. Just store it right.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> Marlin 795 or 60 series in .22LR. Lighter, thinner and more accurate than a 10/22 for less than half the price. The 795 uses magazines where the 60 has a magazine tube. Either model will serve you well. Then down the road I would start looking at centerfire rifles. By the way the Chinese Mosin is called the Type 53.


I'll take that as agreement.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Geek laid out the basic categories you should have so I won't belabor that.

The Mosin has a lot of benefits and would be a good choice. There is a future problem with this gun in that ammo may become hard to find or expensive. If you buy a large quantity of ammo now you avoid that problem in the future. Although bolt action it is quite powerful and could be use for defense and hunting both. Of course, history is full of examples of soldiers coming home and using guns for hunting that were similar to what they carried.

Another option you might look at is an SKS. It is similar to a .30-.30 in power so would do well for most game and has the benefit in a firefight of being semi-auto.

Another option might be to buy the gun you want and ask for ammo. If you know where you want to buy your firearm you might also suggest a gift certificate. 

If you go for a used gun I usually pay around 60% of retail.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Geek laid out the basic categories you should have so I won't belabor that.
> 
> The Mosin has a lot of benefits and would be a good choice. There is a future problem with this gun in that ammo may become hard to find or expensive. If you buy a large quantity of ammo now you avoid that problem in the future. Although bolt action it is quite powerful and could be use for defense and hunting both. Of course, history is full of examples of soldiers coming home and using guns for hunting that were similar to what they carried.
> 
> ...


Thanks man, btw, I know a guy with ties to Springfield, Hi Point, Kel-Tec, Arsenal, and Taurus, he also is class 3 FFL. So if i need something cheap he can get it to me real cheap.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

BullDozer said:


> Thanks man, btw, I know a guy with ties to Springfield, Hi Point, Kel-Tec, Arsenal, and Taurus, he also is class 3 FFL. So if i need something cheap he can get it to me real cheap.


You have a lot of good choices in that lineup.


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## ONEOLDCHIEF (Jan 5, 2012)

If you will be buying your gun say from a pawn shop or some dealer like that, see if they have gift certificates and tell everyone to give you gift certificates to that store... 
Good luck with your next purchase... 
ps: I do like the SKS (have killed several 175 lb whitetails, dropped them like a bad habit) a little more than a Mosin, but I do like rapid fire... and ammo is available again...


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I gotta agree with oldchief. You said you already have a 12 gauge pump so if I were you my next move would be a semi auto rifle in a defense / hunting caliber. With your stated price range look for an SKS rifle. There are plenty of them and not too expensive. Plus ammo is still readily available and also not crazy expensive. With an SKS you can defend and also hunt larger game (deer n hog sizes). You can't do that with a .22. And before everyone hops on board with their "I killed a charging grizzly with my old .22 bolt action!" story I would never attempt to kill a deer with a .22. Just not enough power to kill unless you have already hit the deer with a chevy. I know a lot of people can't afford better quality firearms but before plopping money down on anything please remember one thing. Why are you buying it? To kill cans or to save your life? If its cans buy whatever. If it's to save yourself then ask how much is my hide and my family worth??? There are a lot of areas to save a few bucks on but to spend money on unreliable firearms is beyond worthless. I'm not saying to buy the most expensive gun you can but there is a vast difference in quality and accuracy between a cheapie and quality firearms.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

mojo4 said:


> I gotta agree with oldchief. You said you already have a 12 gauge pump so if I were you my next move would be a semi auto rifle in a defense / hunting caliber. With your stated price range look for an SKS rifle. There are plenty of them and not too expensive. Plus ammo is still readily available and also not crazy expensive. With an SKS you can defend and also hunt larger game (deer n hog sizes). You can't do that with a .22. And before everyone hops on board with their "I killed a charging grizzly with my old .22 bolt action!" story I would never attempt to kill a deer with a .22. Just not enough power to kill unless you have already hit the deer with a chevy. I know a lot of people can't afford better quality firearms but before plopping money down on anything please remember one thing. Why are you buying it? To kill cans or to save your life? If its cans buy whatever. If it's to save yourself then ask how much is my hide and my family worth??? There are a lot of areas to save a few bucks on but to spend money on unreliable firearms is beyond worthless. I'm not saying to buy the most expensive gun you can but there is a vast difference in quality and accuracy between a cheapie and quality firearms.


I agree, but my price range isnt that high. Like
I said before its not a matter of me saving, it is a set limit. I do plan to get an SKS or Saiga


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Why not go ahead and get my .22lr? I have seen numerous videos about how it CAN kill. I think the stealth of the caliber is big for me, as I plan to travel light. And i wont be starting firefights, so why not a .22 then wait for my battle rifle? I have confidence that if i unload a bunch of bullets of any size into you, you wont want to stick
Around, but, desperate people do desperate things.


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## Cidney00 (Jul 9, 2013)

May I suggest you look into the Savage model 93 in 17Hmr. They can be picked up for very little new and ammo is still readily available with minimum cost. Seeing as people regularly bag hogs around here with them I don't see an effectiveness issue. 300 yard range all day.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Cidney00 said:


> May I suggest you look into the Savage model 93 in 17Hmr. They can be picked up for very little new and ammo is still readily available with minimum cost. Seeing as people regularly bag hogs around here with them I don't see an effectiveness issue. 300 yard range all day.


I would prefer a .22, is .17 hmr more powerful? I was thinking 22 for practice sake


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

BullDozer said:


> Why not go ahead and get my .22lr? I have seen numerous videos about how it CAN kill. I think the stealth of the caliber is big for me, as I plan to travel light. And i wont be starting firefights, so why not a .22 then wait for my battle rifle? I have confidence that if i unload a bunch of bullets of any size into you, you wont want to stick
> Around, but, desperate people do desperate things.


I had a friend that regularly used a .22LR to take down caribou. Yes, it is illegal but it is effective and inexpensive and he was putting food on the table. He made this work by getting very close and shot placement.

As far as personal defense goes, people don't like to leak. When it comes to a psychological stop calibre has little to do with it. If a physical stop is required a .22 will take longer to be effective than a larger calibre.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

.22 is inexpensive to shoot. You may want that to practice with as well. Ultimately, you will want to cover all four categories as they do not substitute well. Can you bring down big game with a .22? Yeah, if you are skilled and lucky, but it would be easier with a center fire rifle. Can you bag a squirrel with a shot gun? Sure, but there might not be a lot left.

You get the idea. I'd suggest the .22 next, but it's your call and no matter how you choose, you already know what the next gun will be.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Geek999 said:


> .22 is inexpensive to shoot. You may want that to practice with as well. Ultimately, you will want to cover all four categories as they do not substitute well. Can you bring down big game with a .22? Yeah, if you are skilled and lucky, but it would be easier with a center fire rifle. Can you bag a squirrel with a shot gun? Sure, but there might not be a lot left.
> 
> You get the idea. I'd suggest the .22 next, but it's your call and no matter how you choose, you already know what the next gun will be.


So, in your opinion, would a Mosin or a .22 be better?


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

BullDozer said:


> So, in your opinion, would a Mosin or a .22 be better?


I wouldn't say one is "better" than the other because they have different uses. I wouldn't say a hammer is better than a screwdriver. They're both tools, but neither is a good substitute for the other.

My recommendation would be a .22 next. It will be useful for practice as well as small game. The ammo is as inexpensive as you can get and you've made it clear that cost is a big motivator. I am a fan of the Ruger 10/22, but others have recommended other .22s in this thread. There are lots of good choices.

The Mosin would fill the center fire rifle category and would be good for large game, but while they were originally military weapons, they are antiques and I would not want to face ARs or AKs with Mosins.

Note I own a couple Mosins, but I value them more as historical artifacts than as weapons. If you decide to get a Mosin, the Russians did an excellent job of refurbishing and storing them for decades before they finally started selling them off. The Chinese, not so much.

While the Mosin surplus ammo is relatively cheap compared to other center fire rifle cartridges, it is still very expensive compared to .22LR.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

I bought 20 bucks worth of canned goods, got blueberry and blackberry plant seeds. Want to plant an apple tree.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

When I was a tad younger and things made more sense, I recall a first person story wherein the author parachuted into Cuba to attempt the overthrow of the evil dictator , Batista. He did so carrying a Remington Model 66 in .22 LR. He felt somewhat outmatched but soon "found" a more suitable weapon.
Growing up in a forested rural area I was amazed by the number of classmates who helped the family out by harvesting 'government beef' with their .22 LRs throughout the year. Although I didn't participate in that hunt, I grew up ground swatting grouse, our partridge, with .22 or shotgun. If they flew, it was a waste of ammunition and you better move a little quieter next time. The grandson just harvested grouse #3 & 4. In a survival situation to develop a mindset as to what will work and not work is dangerous.
The advice on traps is super, they are "force multipliers" allowing you to be more than one place at one time.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Just passed my trappers education course with a 92. I loved it!


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## AfleetAlex (Nov 8, 2013)

BullDozer said:


> Just passed my trappers education course with a 92. I loved it!


Well done!


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

AfleetAlex said:


> Well done!


Thanks! Back to thread i finished bug out bags for my family and my dog.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

BullDozer said:


> Just passed my trappers education course with a 92. I loved it!


Pretty kewl bud!


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

FatTire said:


> Pretty kewl bud!


Thanks. It was real fun,


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

BullDozer said:


> Thanks! Back to thread i finished bug out bags for my family and my dog.


What did you put in your dog's bob?


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Grimm said:


> What did you put in your dog's bob?


Food, water, glowstick, a few matches for redundancy, treats, and scent-bloc for her crap.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Just added another week of water and canned goods!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

BullDozer said:


> Thanks! Back to thread i finished bug out bags for my family and my dog.


What kind of bag do you use for the dog?


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## sasha12 (Dec 5, 2013)

I am from Ukraine and I know english


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

sasha12 said:


> I am from Ukraine and I know english


Welcome! Can you post an introductory post? I'd enjoy hearing how you arrived here.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Geek999 said:


> What kind of bag do you use for the dog?


Just a standard dollar tree fanny pack.


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## NavaBoer (Dec 5, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> Marlin 795 or 60 series in .22LR. Lighter, thinner and more accurate than a 10/22 for less than half the price. The 795 uses magazines where the 60 has a magazine tube. Either model will serve you well. Then down the road I would start looking at centerfire rifles. By the way the Chinese Mosin is called the Type 53.


My brother owns a 795 and he loves it. Ill admit I've witnessed it jam a time or two but its rare and for what it is its a great choice. Also I think it has the best barrel out of any other stock 22. I myself have a henry and a 10/22. I like them both I use my henry a lot more than my ruger mostly cause it just seems funner. I also like that I can shoot shorts with it.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

I purchased a mosin nagant. 91/30 all matching Tula from 1938. I got a bayonet and some other stuff to.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Tried mountin that bayonet yet? The ones my boys got an ones I've bought we can't get em ta mount up. Haven't spent much time seein why just yet, but gonna look inta it this winter.

Love them old rifles.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Tried mountin that bayonet yet? The ones my boys got an ones I've bought we can't get em ta mount up. Haven't spent much time seein why just yet, but gonna look inta it this winter.
> 
> Love them old rifles.


Yes i have. Its a file problem. Just take a file to it.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Bought the grand daughter a folding knife- her first. I couldn't find a pink one to match her Cricket rifle. The grandson received two Army surplus wool blankets. Must be about the first time he hasn't gotten something to cut with.
Acquired a Ruger 101 with the fully adjustable sights and a 4.2 inch barrel. It's used but like new condition. No one had pulled it apart (no longer the case). After numerous dry firings you could see where parts were making contact so the wire wheel on the Demi drill was put to use. Shortened the hammer spring by a coil and a half. So we have a smoother lighter action. (Managed to launch the spring that controls the hand. I set the grand daughter a lookin' with the large magnet on a handle, darned if she wasn't successful in finding it.) It was a good deal $499, a short distance down the gun case the was a new one on sale for $620.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Re: Mosin bayonet. If you bought it with all the grease still in it you may find it fits after removing the grease. The grease gets inside the bayonet mechanism among other places. It's easy to think you have it clean when the grease is still in there.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

headhunter said:


> Bought the grand daughter a folding knife- her first. I couldn't find a pink one to match her Cricket rifle. The grandson received two Army surplus wool blankets. Must be about the first time he hasn't gotten something to cut with.
> Acquired a Ruger 101 with the fully adjustable sights and a 4.2 inch barrel. It's used but like new condition. No one had pulled it apart (no longer the case). After numerous dry firings you could see where parts were making contact so the wire wheel on the Demi drill was put to use. Shortened the hammer spring by a coil and a half. So we have a smoother lighter action. (Managed to launch the spring that controls the hand. I set the grand daughter a lookin' with the large magnet on a handle, darned if she wasn't successful in finding it.) It was a good deal $499, a short distance down the gun case the was a new one on sale for $620.


Umm. I think this post was supposed to be in the update thread. This is my personal thread, but, its good presents you gave! Hope she has fun with that rifle!


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Geek999 said:


> Re: Mosin bayonet. If you bought it with all the grease still in it you may find it fits after removing the grease. The grease gets inside the bayonet mechanism among other places. It's easy to think you have it clean when the grease is still in there.


Yeah thats what i had to do with mine.


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## cheburgie (Dec 8, 2013)

My two cents! 12 gauge perfect for close in self defense. 22 perfect for hunting small game and long range self defense. Sks perfect for hunting, self defense close and far. No one is going to continue advancing with hot lead heading their way. I personally have all above mentioned weapons and a 7 mm magnum just in case a elephant wanders into camp. I believe marksmanship is the best defense not caliber. Practice practice.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

cheburgie said:


> My two cents! 12 gauge perfect for close in self defense. 22 perfect for hunting small game and long range self defense. Sks perfect for hunting, self defense close and far. No one is going to continue advancing with hot lead heading their way. I personally have all above mentioned weapons and a 7 mm magnum just in case a elephant wanders into camp. I believe marksmanship is the best defense not caliber. Practice practice.


Agreed. Well said my friend,


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