# what to invest in



## Vovin

What would the best thing be to do during a time when the dollar might be valued at less than toilet paper? It seems like people would go back to the barter system, whats the best thing to get to barter with people during a crisis?


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## TechAdmin

I think Gold is pretty good. Commodities of course; petrol, coffee, tobacco, OTC pain killers, canned foods, etc.


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## Narsil

Ammunition in common calibers (9mm, .45, 7.62X39, 5.56 Nato, etc)


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## Dani 187

I would say weapons.


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## bkt

Ammo and weapons are best kept to yourself, not traded away. You don't want them used on you later.

Personal hygiene items (soap, toothpaste, toothbrushes, deodorant, tampons, etc.), common OTC medicines, fish hooks, batteries, tobacco products, and alcohol all make good bartering items.

Look around your house at items in each room and ask yourself what you would miss most if it weren't there and you couldn't get more.


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## coinguy

Vovin said:


> What would the best thing be to do during a time when the dollar might be valued at less than toilet paper? It seems like people would go back to the barter system, whats the best thing to get to barter with people during a crisis?


Food, ammo, guns, medical supplies, gold & silver, food (did I say that already?) blue jeans, boots, food......you get the idea

G


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## Denny

It's pretty much been covered here... commodities, such as precious metals and consumables.


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## Jagtech

I believe that one's own skills are a definite asset that can be used for barter.. for instance, if you can repair something that someone else needs for survival, its worth money in the bank. I fix lots of stuff that people can no longer get fixed locally, and I'm always willing to trade my time for food, or other services (such as dental, eyeglasses, etc), or cash. But you need to put a real value on your time - it is worth a lot to the right person, perhaps someone who is also short of cash.


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## Jerry D Young

Some of what I'm acquiring for barter

Scales to get agreed upon weights of items	
commercial scale (±500#)
commercial scale (±100#)
commercial scale (±10#)
commercial scale (±16oz)

1.0 oz gold coins
0.1 oz gold coins
40 count rolls silver quarters
50 count rolls silver dimes
blank barter slips

200ml bottles 190 proof Everclear
smokeless tobacco
2 oz boxes tobacco
booklets cigarette papers
smoking pipes
small boxes matches
butane lighter fuel
Zippo lighter fuel
lighter flints
lighter wicks
disposable lighters
straight razors w/strop, soap, & cup
shaving soap
Q-tips

playing cards
dice

lengths candle/oil lamp wick
Coleman lantern mantles

multi-vitamins
2 oz jars instant coffee
16 count boxes teabags
2 oz jars bouillon cubes
tubs add-water-only drink mix

1 pound boxes sugar
2 oz boxes salt
2 oz cans pepper
5 oz cans milk
4 oz cans cocoa
2 oz bars chocolate candy
8 oz bags hard candy (individually wrapped)

4 oz cans Vienna sausage/potted meat
12 oz cans roast beef
7 oz cans Spam (or 12oz)(or Treet)
6 oz cans tuna
10 oz cans soup (heavy on the meat types)

16 oz bags rice
16 oz bags beans

aspirin pain killer
acetaminophen pain killer
multi-vitamin
OTC reading glasses
OTC UVA/UVB resistant sunglasses
Cheap wide-brimmed straw hats

small boxes	tampons/sanitary napkins
reusable sanitary napkins

reusable cotton diapers
diaper pins

clothes pins

wooden pencils/ink pens
small note books
legal pads

50 count bottles water purification tablets

6”-12” candles
boxes strike anywhere kitchen matches

rolls toilet paper
bars soap
hair combs/brushes
disposable razors
toothbrushes
boxes baking soda

packets safety pins
packets of sewing needles
spools of thread

mousetraps
rat traps
fly swatters

jersey gloves
cotton/leather work gloves
insulated gloves

tubes silicone sealant
tubes Shoe Goo/Goop
tubes JB Weld
duct tape
mechanic’s wire
electrical tape
friction tape
rubber tape
sheet plastic
divided buckets with a variety of nails, screws, bolts, nuts, and washers
sealed cans of welding rods (6011 and/or 7018 1/8”)
variety of brazing rods
cans of brazing flux

regular canning lids
wide mouth canning lids
P-38/P-51 can openers

1-b propane cylinders
10-lb bags charcoal briquettes

solar 12-volt battery chargers
solar AAA, AA, C, D, 9-volt battery charger
rechargeable batteries 20 each AAA, AA, C, D, 9-volt


#10 cans heirloom seeds

500-round bricks .22 LR RF cartridges
5-round boxes .410/20 GA shells
single units M6 Scout/Savage 24/Remington SPR-94 O/U .22 RF/.410 or 20 gauge combos




Here are a few skills I think would have barter/trade potential


Alternative energy specialist
Ammunition re-loader
Appliance repairman
Artist
Assayer
Baker
Banker
Barber
Basket maker
Bathhouse/shower room operator
Beekeeper
Bicycle Repairman
Biodiesel maker
Blackpowder maker
Blacksmith
Bookbinder
Botanist
Brew master
Brick maker
Bullet caster
Butcher/meat processor
Candle maker
Candy maker
Carpenter
Cartridge maker
Cartwright
Chandler
Charcoal burner
Cheese maker
Chemist
Chimney sweep
Cobbler/shoe maker
Comedian
Cook
Cooper (barrel maker)
Coppersmith
Dentist
Distiller, drinking alcohol
Distiller, fuel alcohol
Doctor
Dog trainer
Dye maker
Electrician
Electronics tech
Entertainer
Farmer
Farm hand
Farrier
Firewood purveyor
Fisherman
Food canner/processor
Furniture maker
Gardener
Gatherer (wild plants, useful rocks and minerals)
Glass maker
Goatherd
Goldsmith/silversmith
Gravedigger
Gunpowder maker
Gunsmith/gun maker
Handyman
Harvester/picker
Heavy equipment operator
Herbalist/mineralist
Historian
Horse trainer/wrangler
Hunter/trapper
Ice purveyor/harvester/maker
Ink maker
Judge/arbitrator 
Karaoke operator
Knife maker
Knife sharpener
Knitter/crocheter 
Laundress/laundry room operator
Leather worker
Librarian
Logger/forester/sawyer
Lumber maker
Machinist
Maid
Massage therapist
Mechanic
Metal worker
Metallurgist
Midwife
Milk maid
Milk processor
Miller
Millwright
Miner
Mulcher/composter/manure collector
Musician
Net maker
Nurse
Optician (eyeglass maker)
Orchardman/arborist
Paper maker
Peace Officer
Pedi-cab driver
Pest control specialist
Pharmacist
Physicist
Plumber
Postman
Pottery maker
Primitive building specialist
Printer/newspaperman
Radio Operator
Rancher
Ranch hand
Repairman
Roofer
Rope/cordage maker
Sail maker
Sailor (Boatswain)
Salt maker
Salvage specialist
Scribe
Secretary
Security guard
Shake/shingle maker
Sheep sheerer
Shepherd
Shipwright/boat builder
Shoemaker
Skill At Arms instructor
Small engine mechanic
Smelter/foundryman
Soap maker
Soldier
Spice purveyor
Spinner/Weaver
Stonemason/brick layer
Storyteller
Sugar maker
Surveyor
Tailor/seamstress
Tanner
Teacher
Thatcher
Tinker
Tire repairman
Tool & die maker
Toy & game maker
Trader/Wagoner
Trapper
Truck driver
Undertaker
Veterinarian
Watch/clock repairman/maker
Weaver
Welder
Well driller
Wheelwright
Winemaker
Wood gas equipment maker
Woodworker



Here are some examples of Tradesman’s Tools that could be stockpiled and either used and the product/service bartered, or their USE bartered out. One wouldn’t barter away the tools that bring in the food.

±500# scale
±100# scale
±10# scale
±16oz scale


Tailor/Seamstress tools
Sewing machine
Serger
Sewing basket (needles, thimbles, thread, measuring tape,
seam ripper, scissors, shears, marking chalk, straight edge, pins,
neck magnifying glass, etc.)
bolts of cloth, patterns, spare needles, pins, chalk, thread, buttons,
zippers, snaps, etc)
Treadle type sewing machine (Janome 712T)
weaving looms
>1,000 watt generator


Food processing tools
Grain grinders, solar dehydrators, butchering tools, manual meat slicer, manual meat grinder, sausage stuffer, stuffing tubes, jerky shooter, water purifier


barbers tools
scissors, combs, hair brushes, dusting brush, broom, dust pan, chair,
neck apron, razor, shaving cup, shaving soap, towels

ammunition reloader’s tools
Dillion progressive tool w/primary caliber dies
RCBS press with common caliber dies
Bullet casting equipment
lead
black powder making tools & screens

laundry tools
Staber washing machine
laundry soap
bleach
clothes lines w/poles, stakes & clothes pins
water heater (kettle w/tripod)
water tank
12v pump & battery
drain line
James washer w/wringer
2+ washtubs
>1,000 watt generator

entertainment tools
band instruments
projection TV
TV projector
Lap-top computer
DVD disk player
VHS tape player
Chairs
Karaoke machine w/cd-g’s
Lighting system
Sound system
>1,500 watt generator
Battery bank, solar panels, and inverter
protective bullet resistant face for TV’s if used
Classic books for storyteller to read

home canning equipment & supplies
firewood cutting tools
knife/edged tool sharpening tools
printer’s/newspaper publisher’s tools
butcher/meat cutter’s tools
meat processors tools (sausage, etc.)
tanner’s tools
milk processors tools (cheese, etc.)
baker’s tools & supplies
bath house/shower room tools
candle maker’s tools & supplies
gardener’s tools
mechanic’s tools
machinist’s tools - Smithy Granite 1340 Industrial Max metalworking all-in-one machine
woodworker’s tools - Shopsmith Mark V woodworking all-in-one machine
blacksmith’s tools - Oxygen accumulator, acetylene generator
plumber’s tools
lumber making tools - portable sawmill
electrician’s tools
carpenter’s tools
roofer’s tools
stonemason’s tools
primitive building tools
cobbler/shoe maker’s tools
soap maker’s tools
brewer/wine maker’s tools
distillery tools
miller’s tools
spinner & weaver’s tools (looms)
teaching tools and supplies K-12
smelter/foundry/metal worker’s tools
sheep sheering tools
papermaking tools
rope, cordage, and net making tools
millwright’s tools
farm tools (prepare, sow, cultivate, harvest)
biodiesel equipment & supplies
wood gas generator equipment & supplies
charcoal making tools
black powder making tools
paper making tools
reference/do-it-yourself library (books/magazines/CD-ROMs/DVDs)(never let the media out of your control)


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## Kiwi Will

*Where does one start ! ! ! ? ? ? ?*

I reckon that if (or most likely in my opinion that should be WHEN) tings all turn to custard, man can do nothing if he's is hungry for more than a week. What we should be planning is to have knowledge of how do do things that can ensure survival. The other fella who is not being very nice to me can take every thing away from me except what skills or knowledge is in my brain. Thats only taken if there is a bullet parked within it.
Learn how to feed on minimal resources of limited natural materials. Anything else is going to need craftyness, skill in catching, gathering, preserving it, storing it, cooking it and catching up with a replacement for next time.
Putting at stash of tucker(food) somewhere sound good but you'll need more than one in just one location. The food stash should include some other items likely to have more easierly lost of if its Chinese made, broken. eg knife, trace & hooks, plastic sheet, nylon cord.
Remember satellites are pretty nosy things and cell phones are giving your location as well. It may seem to be over the top but evry call on cell ph or land line is monitored as is this computer written message. Computers are doing it all and interpreters are employed to read what the computer pulls up if it is not in English. I kid you not! This is knowledge, NOT belief. 
If your able to make a fair sized stash of tucker, if it's dried, it will less likely ruin (unless it gets wet of course).
It will weigh less to carry, it will be less in size for storage space. Unless your in desert of course, cause then it's best to get out of there cause of the lack of the obvious.
Practice storing sumit in a hole somewhere. Go back in a few months and see what could have been done better. Like lighting a fire, practice brings knowledge and especailly confidence. A super important factor!

Have fun FUN FUN. Learn and store that knowledge in the grey matter so you can pass it on to da kids and their wee brats when they get to think that maybe the ol' man & his gal might have an inkling of sumit that might just be worth knowing about.


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## Canadian

Gold, Silver, Food, Water, and Fuel. All protected by a large supply of firearms and ammunition.


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## survivalboy12895

Vovin said:


> What would the best thing be to do during a time when the dollar might be valued at less than toilet paper? It seems like people would go back to the barter system, whats the best thing to get to barter with people during a crisis?


Well even tho most people think of gold as the number one thing,I would say silver.If it gets so bad(which I think it will)that we will have to barter for goods,silver will be alot better then gold,and this is why.silver is more easily divided then gold.I'd say get $1000 face value in silver dimes.Because its better to barter 10 dimes instead of one silver doller.Because just think if you have to buy something that costs $1.50 face value of silver.They seller might have change,but they might not.Its better to be safe,then sorry.

The other thing to invest in,is common caliber ammo.Mostly .223,.308,30/06,.270,9mm,.40 s&w,.45,12 gauge and .22lr. If you could afford it,I'd say 5000 rounds of each.I know this sounds expensive,but everyday the dollar is getting weaker.


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## Littlebit

I have a .22 riffal and .22 9 shot revolver. Right now I have 1525 Lr rounds. I have been thinking about getting a shot gun, but with my arthris I don,t want something that will leave me in aggany for days after I shot it. What would you suggest. 410 maybe?


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## UncleJoe

FOOD! EVERYONE MUST EAT.

If you can produce it or have huge stores of it, you will quickly become rich. However you will also become the target of those who will just take what they want so a way to protect your stores comes in a very close second.


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## HozayBuck

This subject comes up pretty often and mostly the same folks say the same thing every time, I'm no exception. Having said that...

While I will say I wish I had bought some PM's back 5 to 10 years ago I didn't, and to do so today is kinda like pissing on a forest fire, a one oz gold coine is what?? 1200.00 ? for that amount of money you can look around and get an AR 15 and a thousand rounds of ammo...or 2 AK's and close to 2000 rnds of ammo... or..a lot of LTS food , you can do a great deal with $1200.00 .. to me $1200.00 is a pretty good bit of mad money, to some it's a weekend of fun.

PM's are a great hedge against bad times, but PM's can drop in value by 50% almost over night, you will never ever see an AR or AK drop 50 %... a case of 22 LR ammo is 5500 rounds about $130.00 to $140.00 Ruger 10-22 rifles are around $200.00 so how many can you buy after you buy 10 K of ammo for them...

They will never be worth less then you paid..ever.

Now if some of you have several thousands of dollars in the bank, hell yes buy some PM's, but for the everyday working stiff there are much better things to spend your $$$ on...

for the cost of 10 OZ's of gold you can buy some rural property for a retreat.. 

Just not for me... I have other plans and needs


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## jungatheart

My microwave just quit working and I can attest that, as long as electricity is still running, people will be wanting them. I bought a replacement and a spare.


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## allen_idaho

The value of an AK all depends on where you live. You can pick up a fully automatic AK-47 built in the 1950's for $150 in Somalia right now. An RPG and grenades will run you $200. All because the country is flooded with them. If the US were flooded with them, they'd probably be dirt cheap too.


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## NaeKid

jungatheart said:


> My microwave just quit working and I can attest that, as long as electricity is still running, people will be wanting them. I bought a replacement and a spare.


I haven't had a microwave for over 20 years now and got rid of my TV 10 years ago. I have not missed having the microwave or watching TV.

I feel (and some will disagree) that prepping is slowly changing your lifestyle from one that you rely on technology and the "grid" of supplies and you start to rely on yourself and your skills.

I do understand that some technology is required to survive in today's world, but, the more that we personally limit that requirement, the better off we all are.


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## HozayBuck

I can agree with NaeKid on that in a small way , yet I have this Computer needle in my vein and I don't wanna go cold turkey.. I could live without TV but I see no reason to avoid the microwave , there I have to ask why???? 

To Allen_Idaho , yes your right, but by the same token a human life in those places has even less value... lets keep focused on the good ol US of A... 

I'm not saying those of you who own PM's are mistaken, I was answering the OP's question in my way... to me there are things much more valuable then PM's.. of course in a fire fight your PM's will be made of Brass, lead, steel...so in a sense I have a lot of PM's !!!


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## kyfarmer

Same as i always say, Beans And Bullets, without the latter ya won't hang on to the first.


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## GreyWolf

There are a lot of good ideas in this thread that make sense. Investing a lot in PM's or items to be bartered is not really an option for me though. The funds I have available are better spent building up supplies and equipment.

Seems as though there are a lot of items, skills and knowledge those of us who have been preparing with that will be of value as barter service in such a situation as an economic collapse leading to the SHTF described. For example with a little planning it will be relatively easy to increase number of chickens for egg production or fryers to barter. People who manage to grow corn, wheat and other grains will probably not have any means of milling them so a those of use with grain mills and spare parts should be positioned well for bartering that service in exchange for other goods and services. Some people will want to feed their families and will have game or livestock they have want to butcher but have no idea of how to preserve or process that much meat without freezing, so extra space in a smokerhouse of multiple smokers could easily become a bartering tool. The knowledge of how to make soap, candles, charcoal or the ability to charge batteries and many more things will be in high demand I think.

When bartering become a way of life I think anyone who has planned, studies and prepared will be positioned well even if they have been unable due to finances to invest a lot in barter items or precious metals. IMO if/when the SHTF there are going to be a lot of things we never realized that will suddenly have barter power and value. Hopefully if any of us do find we have a shortage of an item or need some specialized skill or service we will quickly be able to barter for it.


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## sailaway

My latest hair brained investment thought has been in buying pallets of dog food and blowing them out for less than Petco or Petsmart. Our local pet food store went out about a year ago, missmanagement by two inexperienced young business men. I now pay $50.00 for 35#s of dog food instead of $35.00 for 50#s. We need moore competition around my neck of the woods. I was thinking of selling it at the local farmers market which starts next month, and also at the local flea market. Any thoughts on this?:scratch


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## UncleJoe

If there is a market for it, it will sell. As word gets around that you have pet food for less than the big chains, folks will come looking for you. Put an ad on CL in the pet section and direct people to the flea market where you plan to set up. It shouldn't take long for the word to spread.


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## sailaway

UncleJoe said:


> If there is a market for it, it will sell. As word gets around that you have pet food for less than the big chains, folks will come looking for you. Put an ad on CL in the pet section and direct people to the flea market where you plan to set up. It shouldn't take long for the word to spread.


CL, what a great idea Uncle Joe.:2thumb: I just have to get some cash up to buy a few pallets of food. I will probably sell a couple of Jeeps, just have to figure out which ones to get rid of.


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## sailaway

UncleJoe said:


> If there is a market for it, it will sell. As word gets around that you have pet food for less than the big chains, folks will come looking for you. Put an ad on CL in the pet section and direct people to the flea market where you plan to set up. It shouldn't take long for the word to spread.


CL, what a great idea Uncle Joe.:2thumb: I just have to get some cash up to buy a few pallets of food. I will probably sell a couple of Jeeps, just have to figure out which ones to get rid of.


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## TechAdmin

sailaway said:


> CL, what a great idea Uncle Joe.:2thumb: I just have to get some cash up to buy a few pallets of food. I will probably sell a couple of Jeeps, just have to figure out which ones to get rid of.


I would say blasphemy, but if you have more than two your probably could afford to sell one.


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## ZoomZoom

sailaway said:


> My latest hair brained investment thought has been in buying pallets of dog food and blowing them out for less than Petco or Petsmart.


But can you beat Costco, WalMart, Sams Club, Tractor Supply...?

What kind (mfgr) of dog food are you considering? I don't need name brands but is it the high-end stuff or the cheap stuff? If the former, is there a decent demand for it in today's economy? Whenever I go to the dog food section, the high-end stuff is still stacked high (not selling) but the cheap stuff seems to move fast.


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## sailaway

bczoom said:


> But can you beat Costco, WalMart, Sams Club, Tractor Supply...?
> 
> What kind (mfgr) of dog food are you considering? I don't need name brands but is it the high-end stuff or the cheap stuff? If the former, is there a decent demand for it in today's economy? Whenever I go to the dog food section, the high-end stuff is still stacked high (not selling) but the cheap stuff seems to move fast.


I'm just beginning to investigate this, the local store that supplied us went out of business. They didn't know how to run the business that they were buying from their old boss. They were good workers, but not good business men. I am looking at paying $50.00 for 35#s of food for my labs at all of the stores, where they were $35.00 for 50#s. To get to Wally world and the other places that sell it is 1/2 hr. each way, plus dealing with the crowded cash registers. I am not sure about the product mix or where to get it, I am just beginning to investigate this. My plan would be to bring it to the farmers market and the local flea market. Collect data on what people use and refine my product mix from there. Collect emails and send blasts out when new stock comes in. I have no overhead including the warehouse building I will store it in, and will be able to pay cash for the product when I sell some Jeeps and other toys. I enjoy fellow members playing devils advocate or making suggestions for being successful so I look forward to your comments.:congrat:


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