# Extra fuel storage system



## readytogo

A good bov is nothing without a extra supply of fuel, in a pickup truck you have many options but in a van like mine I`m very limited unless I make very dangerous and expensive modifications ,at 6 pounds per gallon is one good extra load to carry around so a good option is to have a storage tank at home and rotated fuel as needed, requires some labor and time but it will give you at least some peace of mind knowing that you can get out of the area quick ,so how many out there have this system at home?.


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## helicopter5472

If your talking about a full size American van, I had a buddy who welded two Gerry can holders to the panel between the back of the wheel well hump and rear door. Without knowing any specs on your van or what room you need for hauling I can't really advise. They make over the wheel well fuel tanks which are long and narrow to fit inside truck beds so you could slide a camper in, thus keeping the opening clear between the wells, again if your not using the space for hauling or seating. If your talking a mini van, or one that your using for passengers you may have to resort to either putting a Gerry can(s) behind the last row of seats, or a roof rack so you can have extra luggage area, spare tires, fuel, water and aux. lights. One last thought, check with the manufacturer some may have offered an optional fuel tank that may be larger.


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## Geek999

Gasoline or diesel?


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## Caribou

I made a platform that plugs into my 2" receiver on the back of my vehicle. Mine is just big enough to hold two five gallon jerry cans. I use it when I go through Canada. I have seen commercially made platforms, at sporting goods stores, that are much larger.


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## GhostMedic

Caribou here are some platform options:
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/cargo.html


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## readytogo

That would work but lacks security and safety on the other hand in a pickup on the bed you have more options,for my astro van there are not many options,safe options, for a full size chevy/ford yes.


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## Geek999

It is extremely difficult to add fuel capacity to a modern vehicle. Anything you tie into the fuel system needs to work with the environmental controls, specifically the EVAP system. As a result, your best results will be achieved either with a pickup as you mentioned, or with a much older vehicle that pre-dates the modern environmental controls most vehicles have today, or figuring out how to carry a few jerry cans.

Facing those alternatives, I chose to acquire the Suburban project I have mentioned in other threads. At this point it is merely a pile of rust with a VIN number, but if the restoration goes as planned I hope to have a fuel capacity of 80+ gallons of diesel when the project is complete, not including any jerry cans. Since I haven't actually done anything beyond acquiring the project, I can't really recommend this, but it is what I am trying to do.

Check back in a couple years if you want to know whether it is working.


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## Tirediron

plumbing an aux. fuel tank, if it fits somewhere is relatively easy, if you just add a pump to transfer the fuel to the main tank or check into what chip you would need to run the aux tank bypassing the EPA crap in the event of an emergency (like the main tank having a hole in it.


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## Geek999

Tirediron said:


> plumbing an aux. fuel tank, if it fits somewhere is relatively easy, if you just add a pump to transfer the fuel to the main tank or check into what chip you would need to run the aux tank bypassing the EPA crap in the event of an emergency (like the main tank having a hole in it.


If you've got the fabrication skills, etc. You're correct, but if you are less skilled and looking for some sort of kit, it becomes much more challenging. You wind up needing to really isolate the aux. System.


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## LincTex

Geek, it won't be as hard to do as you think. The aux tank MUST have an un-vented cap or that will throw a CE light (or in our old Ford Windstar, a dedicated "gas cap" light comes on). 

Other than a sealed filler neck, the aux tank must have the vapor vented to the main fuel tank that has the tank pressure sensor; The two tanks will share pressure. I would employ a fuel solenoid (for positive fuel flow stop) and electric fuel pump to transfer from the aux tank to the main tank. The vent between the tanks will balance the vapor pressure between the two. 

In all, keeping the system "vapor sealed" will be more the critical parameter to maintain to keep the computer happy. Transferring fuel shouldn't be too big of an issue.


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## Geek999

LincTex said:


> Geek, it won't be as hard to do as you think. The aux tank MUST have an un-vented cap or that will throw a CE light (or in our old Ford Windstar, a dedicated "gas cap" light comes on).
> 
> Other than a sealed filler neck, the aux tank must have the vapor vented to the main fuel tank that has the tank pressure sensor; The two tanks will share pressure. I would employ a fuel solenoid (for positive fuel flow stop) and electric fuel pump to transfer from the aux tank to the main tank. The vent between the tanks will balance the vapor pressure between the two.
> 
> In all, keeping the system "vapor sealed" will be more the critical parameter to maintain to keep the computer happy. Transferring fuel shouldn't be too big of an issue.


Actually, I've tried this with a 2004 Jeep. I am not satisfied with the result, hence the Suburban project.


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## Ozarker

Geek, I'll check out your project, but you have a Chevy. This next week I'm taking the F-150 to the shop on a recall gas tank issue, they will simply be adding a couple straps, no big deal, but I'm address the issue Tex mentioned. On the Ford, if the pressure drops it won't start, a lose gas cap can cause that. I'm pretty sure I'll be going the jerry can route as I need a 700 mile range (self imposed) for a planned trip.

I'm thinking of an aux tanks on each side under the bed and transfer with a hand pump into the main tank without tapping into that main tank. Not ideal, but it's extra fuel and it would be in a protected, safe area. 

Had a Safari AWD van and carried 10 gallons on jerry can racks off the back, didn't care for the idea in the event of being rear ended, but I survived. 

I don't like carrying gas inside a vehicle even for the lawn mower much less full cans.

If you have a well built roof rack, additional fuel can go on top, not ideal IMO as having weight up there can be a problem off road or on highways, just magnifies the side wind issues.


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## hashbrown

One of my trucks has 100 gallon L shaped fuel tank and a 12 volt dc pump and the other has a 50 gallon tank built in the toolbox with a 12 volt dc pump. When traveling I fill them up and top the truck tank off at bathroom breaks. I have 200 gallon auxillary tank that will fit in the back of a truck that I would give to any one that wants it.


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## Ozarker

Hashbrown, I'd really like to take it off your hands! I'll PM you.


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## Geek999

Ozarker said:


> Geek, I'll check out your project, but you have a Chevy. This next week I'm taking the F-150 to the shop on a recall gas tank issue, they will simply be adding a couple straps, no big deal, but I'm address the issue Tex mentioned. On the Ford, if the pressure drops it won't start, a lose gas cap can cause that. I'm pretty sure I'll be going the jerry can route as I need a 700 mile range (self imposed) for a planned trip.
> 
> I'm thinking of an aux tanks on each side under the bed and transfer with a hand pump into the main tank without tapping into that main tank. Not ideal, but it's extra fuel and it would be in a protected, safe area.
> 
> Had a Safari AWD van and carried 10 gallons on jerry can racks off the back, didn't care for the idea in the event of being rear ended, but I survived.
> 
> I don't like carrying gas inside a vehicle even for the lawn mower much less full cans.
> 
> If you have a well built roof rack, additional fuel can go on top, not ideal IMO as having weight up there can be a problem off road or on highways, just magnifies the side wind issues.


Pickup trucks are easy. The issue is any other type of vehicle if you want a large capacity and want it plumbed right into the fuel system. In my case, I really have no reason to own a pickup truck unless I just want to use one for hauling around fuel.  What I need is a people hauler with lots of range. In the existing Jeep I added a tank that brought total fuel capacity to about 40 gallons and it will get me about 800 miles of highway driving, tops. One could extend to about 1,000 miles with Jerry cans, but that's about it. Obviously it would be a lot less with anything other than highway driving. I never did get the thing to stop throwing EVAP codes.

Now with the Diesel Suburban project I expect to have 80+ gallons of capacity and still get about 20mpg on the highway. That would give me 1600 highway miles, possibly extended with Jerry cans again and since there is no computer, no codes to worry about. Furthermore, I feel safer storing diesel than gasoline. This will be a substantial improvement in a BOV or PAW vehicle. My issue is simply getting the project done. 

Even if it isn't as good as I hope, it should have much more range and more hauling capacity than what I have now, so my issue is not whether it will be better, but how much better.

Now if I find myself unsatisfied with that for some reason, I'll give up and buy a pickup truck.


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## Caribou

Here are a couple lessons I learned the hard way.

I carried a couple spare fives inside a plastic tote. The tote was inside my Jeep GC. I had to keep the windows down until I could get rid of the gas and cans. No more gas stored inside the vehicle for this kid.

My parents had an 18 gallon tank of spare gasoline inside the shell covered pickup bed. On the same trip they brought me a fifty pound bag of oats. When I finally opened the bag of oats the gasoline odor almost knocked me over. The oats drew the odor right through the paper bag.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> I never did get the thing to stop throwing EVAP codes.


I would have liked to have looked it over to find where the leak was.



Geek999 said:


> Now if I find myself unsatisfied with that for some reason, I'll give up and buy a pickup truck.


There a LOT of extra room under the frame of a 'Burb to put aux tanks.


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## Geek999

LincTex said:


> I would have liked to have looked it over to find where the leak was.
> 
> There a LOT of extra room under the frame of a 'Burb to put aux tanks.


I think the issue is not only leaks, but also the capacity of the system. When you drain the one tank and have more air in the system than the single tank would ever have, you're going to get a code unless you can do something with the computer to get it to stop throwing codes. I never did figure that out though I am sure someone else who knows more could.

The main tank in a Suburban is 40+ gallons depending on the year, etc. For the older models you can add about 40 gallons in the form of side saddle tanks, all with GM parts. This was a dealer option when these vehicles were new. You can plumb it to switch between tanks without getting out of the truck. I'm not sure what you can do with a new one, but I'm working with an old one and that seems to have minimal issues as it pre-dates all the computer headaches.

I'd love to hear from someone who has had success with a new vehicle that isn't a pickup truck, e.g. a new Suburban or new Jeep about how they got around the computer issues. After all, finding an old diesel Suburban isn't going to get any easier as most of these are now pretty beat, and not everyone wants to get into restoring old trucks.


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## Ozarker

My range requirement has to do with a planned trip up to the Artic Circle in a couple years. It's twice the distance of the longest stretch where fuel is hard to get, that allows enough for side trips and a safety margin.

A BIG THANK YOU to Hashbrown! I believe I scored a fuel tank from him that will give me almost twice the range I was looking for, about 1,350 miles with fumes left over! Man, that's going to be a shock to my credit card at the pump! LOL

Geek, sounds like you have it covered. My '99 is very low mileage and as slick as the day I bought it pretty much, it's an old truck but has never failed me, I trust it. Some minor issues, need to charge the AC (hope that's all) and fix a power window switch, nothing mechanical needed. If I need to go to some ritzy place I have a proper car but I wouldn't hesitate driving that truck either, at my age I'm not caught up with the Jones', clean and reliable is good enough for me. (No more "client games", LOL) 
In the 60s I only wanted crank up windows and said all that power stuff will just break and cost you. Then I got a car with power windows. Now, I need power windows, mirrors, seats, locks, steering and brakes. I don't need DVDs, GPS, cameras, radar or seat warmers, but they are nice. A lot can be said for old vehicles, like I said, clean and reliable.


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## Geek999

Ozarker said:


> My range requirement has to do with a planned trip up to the Artic Circle in a couple years. It's twice the distance of the longest stretch where fuel is hard to get, that allows enough for side trips and a safety margin.
> 
> A BIG THANK YOU to Hashbrown! I believe I scored a fuel tank from him that will give me almost twice the range I was looking for, about 1,350 miles with fumes left over! Man, that's going to be a shock to my credit card at the pump! LOL
> 
> Geek, sounds like you have it covered. My '99 is very low mileage and as slick as the day I bought it pretty much, it's an old truck but has never failed me, I trust it. Some minor issues, need to charge the AC (hope that's all) and fix a power window switch, nothing mechanical needed. If I need to go to some ritzy place I have a proper car but I wouldn't hesitate driving that truck either, at my age I'm not caught up with the Jones', clean and reliable is good enough for me. (No more "client games", LOL)
> In the 60s I only wanted crank up windows and said all that power stuff will just break and cost you. Then I got a car with power windows. Now, I need power windows, mirrors, seats, locks, steering and brakes. I don't need DVDs, GPS, cameras, radar or seat warmers, but they are nice. A lot can be said for old vehicles, like I said, clean and reliable.


Sounds like you have the right vehicle for your needs and the tank from Hashbrown sounds perfect.

Interestingly most of the power stuff can be found or retrofitted into an older vehicle, without the complexity of everything being computer controlled. For instance, the older Suburbans came with either power windows or crank style. My project happens to have the power windows. I prefer a separate GPS that can be moved from vehicle to vehicle rather than one that is built into the dash, will go obsolete, and then can't be upgraded. Cameras are still somewhat new but can be added as aftermarket items. I can imagine wanting a rear camera for the Suburban, but I'm not going to worry about that until the project is much further along. Seat warmers came in some of the Jeeps I've owned, but I might have used them once per winter. I'm not even going to research those but I suspect that by pulling seats out of a newer wreck that could be covered. I also plan to equip the Suburban with a nice mix of radios. If you are headed as far into the boonies as it sounds like you are going, I suggest a HAM radio for your vehicle.

What I hope to have is a long range people hauler. I'll use it on driving vacations and as an EMP resistant BOV. I don't have any plans to visit the artic circle, but it sounds like fun.


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## Ozarker

Well, I've never been there and you can get there from here. I use an Icom 706 and HIs for HAM, have other radios as well. About the only thing I'll be adding is an oil cooler and a dual battery set up with inverter and an onboard air compressor. This thread began about trading for something better for the trip, but after more consideration, what I have is better in many respects for my needs and about 35K cheaper than alternatives!

A Suburban has a ton of room and interior modifications are almost endless as to what could be done. Hot rods have been updated to extremes for years now, from rather stock looking screen popups and hidden mods to total refabricated interiors. I've thought about it many times. I enjoy doing interior mods, I did a new van from a bare shell (no 2x4s) and fabricated pieces, covered them and tricked it out to 80s technology. I went to a dealership that customized vans to get a table, they came out to look and the owner asked me if I wanted a job....LOL. A Suburban would be a great project. Don't forget a good roof rack. If I were to use cameras I'd use pinhole and cannon style tied into my Sony, you can get monitors even with split screens, I'd bet it would be cheaper than a backup system and you could cover any direction you wanted to. I have several of both types of cameras and they were inexpensive on line.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> The main tank in a Suburban is 40+ gallons depending on the year, etc. For the older models you can add about 40 gallons in the form of side saddle tanks, all with GM parts. This was a dealer option when these vehicles were new.


Are you sure?
I know the full size longbed trucks held 20 gallons per side, but I also know they don't fit a 'Burb because of the rear seat footwells being so low.

If you knew someone with a TIG welder that can lower the "pop-up" section that normally goes under the bed in a truck, they would fit but you would lose a couple gallons per side.

If you tuck your exhaust all the way to the middle (single 3", and still avoid the drive shaft) you can add a lot of fuel to the inside of each frame rail.


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## Geek999

LincTex said:


> Are you sure?
> I know the full size longbed trucks held 20 gallons per side, but I also know they don't fit a 'Burb because of the rear seat footwells being so low.
> 
> If you knew someone with a TIG welder that can lower the "pop-up" section that normally goes under the bed in a truck, they would fit but you would lose a couple gallons per side.
> 
> If you tuck your exhaust all the way to the middle (single 3", and still avoid the drive shaft) you can add a lot of fuel to the inside of each frame rail.


For the year I have it should fit. It may not work on a newer model. In addition I intend to lift the body, so there will be room. There are both 20 gal and 16 gallon side tanks available as well. It is going to work one way or another.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> In addition I intend to lift the body, so there will be room.


That will help a lot


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## Ozarker

Which certainly helps in off road capabilities, but raising a vehicle, body only or with the suspension changes the geometry of handling characteristics. 

Since most of your driving on the highway (or streets), IMO, that's where you need the best performance. I admit, I drive over the limit sometimes, I have some pretty curvy roads to cover and raising a vehicle would certainly slow me down. 

I have been in emergency situations and was forced drive off road once due to road obstructions. This was not just going around something but having to crash through a fence and drive through a wooded area cross a drainage ditch and up hill through a clearing, but the old Volvo wagon did it just fine. Most cars have sufficient clearance for mild off road conditions, all SUVs, trucks and vans can do a lot without jacking them up. 

Raising a vehicle some is one thing, but everyone has seen the mile high rock crawlers, that's for a different sport IMO and not for the road.


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## Geek999

Ozarker said:


> Which certainly helps in off road capabilities, but raising a vehicle, body only or with the suspension changes the geometry of handling characteristics.
> 
> Since most of your driving on the highway (or streets), IMO, that's where you need the best performance. I admit, I drive over the limit sometimes, I have some pretty curvy roads to cover and raising a vehicle would certainly slow me down.
> 
> I have been in emergency situations and was forced drive off road once due to road obstructions. This was not just going around something but having to crash through a fence and drive through a wooded area cross a drainage ditch and up hill through a clearing, but the old Volvo wagon did it just fine. Most cars have sufficient clearance for mild off road conditions, all SUVs, trucks and vans can do a lot without jacking them up.
> 
> Raising a vehicle some is one thing, but everyone has seen the mile high rock crawlers, that's for a different sport IMO and not for the road.


Agreed. With the Suburban I want to switch over to all disk brakes, larger wheels and tires to a more up to date size, not rock crawler size. Because of the squarish wheel wells and needing clearance for the tanks, some lift is expected. I'm probably going 2" plus another inch or so from the tires. That should also open up clearance for the tanks.

My use will be interstate travel and long range BOV, which could include mild off-road.


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## Ozarker

Sounds like a great build Geek! When the wheels, tires, suspension are matched to raising a truck 2 or 4 inches, that's fine so long as they don't try running a high speed road course. Can't haul too many folks in a 911T. 

A Suburban makes a great cross-county vehicle.

As Readytogo pointed out originally, about 6#s a gallon, decreases the load capacity for people and gear. May have to take off and add more fuel along the way as other items are consumed or unloaded but that may not be possible. Everything is a tradeoff


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## Geek999

Ozarker said:


> Sounds like a great build Geek! When the wheels, tires, suspension are matched to raising a truck 2 or 4 inches, that's fine so long as they don't try running a high speed road course. Can't haul too many folks in a 911T.
> 
> A Suburban makes a great cross-county vehicle.
> 
> As Readytogo pointed out originally, about 6#s a gallon, decreases the load capacity for people and gear. May have to take off and add more fuel along the way as other items are consumed or unloaded but that may not be possible. Everything is a tradeoff


With the diesel I expect to be able to haul plenty of weight. I won't be racing. 

We've got a few other Suburban fans here.


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## helicopter5472

Adding a full roof rack, add an extra leaf spring all around, and get your new tires rated for more weight will set you up nicely for the big run when SHTF. Don't forget to get two extra wheels and tires and a better jack as the additional weight and height may be more than your stock jack will safely do...


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## Tirediron

Geek, I don't know how far you are going on this project, but the next series of trucks had a 9 3/4 inch rear axle with 6 bolt wheels available for the lighter 2500 series. the later 10 bolt differential common in the last of the "square body" series had smaller axle bearings than the earlier ones. something to keep in mind if you plan to put many miles on your Sub. You don't need lift for tire clearance, just trim the back of the fenders if you want to keep it low, it takes a fair bit of lift to accomplish the same tire room as a little trim at the rear of the fender. A stock diesel sprung truck will handle 12.50-33'' tires with just a tiny bit of rub at full turn (my son has a 90 K5 with 33s, )


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## Geek999

helicopter5472 said:


> Adding a full roof rack, add an extra leaf spring all around, and get your new tires rated for more weight will set you up nicely for the big run when SHTF. Don't forget to get two extra wheels and tires and a better jack as the additional weight and height may be more than your stock jack will safely do...


The rack is already planned and needs to work with antennas. The Suburbans of the period had dual front shocks as an option and I am considering that with the suspension. Tires are TBD but run flats are a consideration. Two spares are planned and I already have a hi lift jack.


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## Ozarker

If I had a daughter who had to travel some to school for example, I'd consider run flats, otherwise for a guy who can change a flat I can't justify the price considering the probability of having a flat. Knock on wood, I can't remember my last flat tire and I take my vehicles off road occasionally......not rally driving like a bat out of h3ll, just off road a bit. Imagine most flats are on the road. I'd rather have plugs and an air compressor on board. An air tank can be mounted on the frame and take a hose you can have a variety of air tools as well.

Having two spare tires for a road vehicle is probably overkill, but depends on what you expect, wouldn't hurt to have an extra, but two spare wheels is weight hauled with little return as you could be hauling something much more useful. Again, the air tank would help mounting another tire. 

Get good tires, say a 50,000 tread life, go just over 20-25,000 and replace them selling the old tires getting about half price of the new ones. The real costs if you have it done is mounting and balancing, not much in the long run and cheaper than run flats I've found. I'm on my second set on my truck, BFG A/Ts have been pretty good for me and easy to sell on CL. 

So, Geek, you building an expedition Sub?


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> Because of the squarish wheel wells and needing clearance for the tanks, some lift is expected.


Don't be afraid to cut those wheel well corners off!



Geek999 said:


> With the diesel I expect to be able to haul plenty of weight. I won't be racing.


Is yours 1/2 or 3/4 ton? 
You will probably want to look into getting some Hellwig helper springs.

Make SURE all of your wheel bearings - yes, all 4 corners - are up to snuff before planning on a big bug out trip. A wheel bearing failure would be a MAJOR repair, and often not possible as a "roadside" repair because of all the damage that happens to related parts. Seldom is it just the bearing only that gets chewed up.

Edit: DOH! I missed the other posts already covering this stuff!


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## Geek999

Ozarker said:


> If I had a daughter who had to travel some to school for example, I'd consider run flats, otherwise for a guy who can change a flat I can't justify the price considering the probability of having a flat. Knock on wood, I can't remember my last flat tire and I take my vehicles off road occasionally......not rally driving like a bat out of h3ll, just off road a bit. Imagine most flats are on the road. I'd rather have plugs and an air compressor on board. An air tank can be mounted on the frame and take a hose you can have a variety of air tools as well.
> 
> Having two spare tires for a road vehicle is probably overkill, but depends on what you expect, wouldn't hurt to have an extra, but two spare wheels is weight hauled with little return as you could be hauling something much more useful. Again, the air tank would help mounting another tire.
> 
> Get good tires, say a 50,000 tread life, go just over 20-25,000 and replace them selling the old tires getting about half price of the new ones. The real costs if you have it done is mounting and balancing, not much in the long run and cheaper than run flats I've found. I'm on my second set on my truck, BFG A/Ts have been pretty good for me and easy to sell on CL.
> 
> So, Geek, you building an expedition Sub?


I agree run flats are overkill, but this is a BOV. I want more than normal reliabiity. I can solve the air problem with a scuba tank as already own a bunch. The truck will need new wheels and tires anyhow.

Surgery on the wheel wells is a consideration, but the first step will be the tanks. Everything else depends on the fit for those.

Re: 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton the vehicle was 1/2 ton but will be upgraded.


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