# Evac from East Coast to high ground



## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

So I have been thinking about where I live, how many people are here, and the fact that in the event of a SHTF situation I will 100% be leaving this area and heading west. I am trending toward Black Hills area but am now torn between that area, Texas, and further north west than Black Hills area.

This isn't designed to discuss where I am going, what I want to do is figure out a way to be able to have routes preplanned and including (hopefully) fellow preppers to allow us safe haven for a night or two as we travel.

My questions to me fellow preppers are this
1. What would you all recommend best way to keep communication? HAM Radio is my thought.
2. How can we get a network of this type up and running without sacrificing OPSEC, and then protect against prying eyes that have malicious intent or want to label us as something other than who we really are?
3. What would we say is the best way to give locations while maintaining OPSEC? Generalized locations until the actual evac, then once the idividual is in the general area they can be met by the BOL owner to escort you back to the location at that time? Use HAM the whole time until in the general area then after that use another type of comms that is more secure???

My goal here is not only for me and my family to have a safer evacuation route, but also maybe figure out a way to setup a safe and worthwhile system to allow other preppers that aren't living in their BOL to get there safely if they are more than an easy drive away. You have to figure I am living in Virginia Beach and want to go to either TX, SD, WY, ID, MT all of those during an emergancy condition will probably take 2+ days. I would like to have a stopping off point that I KNOW is safe and secure and setting up camp enroute is a last resort for me.

I hope this heads in the right direction and we can get this rolling for those of us in need without causing issues for those that are near or living in their BOL.

Once we get this figured out and solid on it, then I want to work on my routes and getting safe havens setup on the way....


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Sounds like a 21st century underground railroad. Be interesting to see how this plays out.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I, too, am in Virginia, and I have been considering moving off the east coast. While there are isolated areas within the state, the proximity to Washington, D.C., NOVA, and Tidewater with their burgeoning populations just seems too close.

My opinion is that if you are still here when a significant event occurs that will affect us nation-wide to one degree or another, its too late and you will be forced to deal with it where you are.

I think the risks of open travel will increase exponentially as travel distance increases in a linear fashion. In all likelihood, travel will be extremely dangerous if not impossible due to the government shutting it down or localities doing so as some did after Katrina who were in close proximity to NOLA. 

No offense to anyone here, but your request for "safe harbors" along some escape route is an open invitation to some less than trustworthy individual or group to suck you in like the preverbal "spider to the fly".

If you simply have to travel, get a pilot's license, seriously, and reliable access to an aircraft. It will probably be the safest means of travel to get from point A to point B. (emphasis on "safest", not necessarily safe)


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

I'm worried about communication.

And I do wish we had safe people to handle an underground to somewhere if something were to happen, but too many enemies.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

A few things I have been thinking about here is fairly easy. Then one part that is pretty hard.

The easy part is simply having HAM radio in place and we can use that. Also traveling during an event yeah that is near zero. If possible you would want to travel with more than one vehicle and use a convoy setup. (You can do safe convoy ops with just two vehicles) 
I am having confidence in myself that we will bug out before the masses, but once we do that, I want to fall off the face of the earth to secure better OPSEC...

The hard part is vetting people to keep this safe and secure. There are ways it can be done but it will require several people located all over to make it happen. I think it would be really nice to have something in place, just not something to make people think we are doing something illegal, does that make sense? Kind of like a family evacuation route in case of a hurricane. We have a couple and we don't tell anyone else about those because I don't want everyone else using the same route, it would suddenly become jammed with people and now it's not an evac route anymore....

Ideas on how to vet someone to help ensure they are reliable, trustworthy, and have everyones best interests in mind.

There would for sure be requirements for not only the BOL, but for the visitors. Also certain protocols in place so that it's as universal as possible to keep it from getting to screwed up.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

Honestly, I plan to stay where I am here in Western PA. I have been thinking for a long time that I would like to set up a "weigh station" here for fellow Preppers to stop in, get rest, some provisions, etc. a form of "safe zone". I already know that I would be setting myself up for potential disaster, but I feel strongly enough to help my fellow Preppers to get to where they need to be, that I am willing to be a "silent resister" and help others along the way that will be actively resisting TPTB. 
That being said, I remember reading somewhere that an organization called A.N.T.S. used some type of environmental (rocks, sticks, etc set up in certain designs) sign posts to guide travelers through different areas. If this were to be the beginning of an "underground" support system, it would need to be taken off line and info provided only to specific "trusted" people.


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## mtexplorer (Dec 14, 2012)

I have to agree with Jezcruzen. If you wait until the crash your chances of making it out alive are slim and none. That's not pessimistic, it's the reality of logistics. GET OUT NOW. 

Unless you're traveling in a caravan with a group who is well prepared and armed, you won't have the resources to succeed. If you haven't read the novel "One Second After" you should. It's a great example of the reality of trying to get away from a heavily populated area especially the east coast where you are. 

There would be people along the way who would help. There would be people along the way that would take everything you have including your life. If you were lucky you would die first and not have to witness what they would do to your family. The is the harsh reality of an economic collapse or any other event that affected the day to day life of this country. 

Look for employment where you want to go. Get a job there, get established then bring your family to you. 

Communications-Ham radio is what I intend to use. I already have made links to those who have safe havens in case where I am gets overrun. The ham network will be one of the last functioning communications. Get one, get the license, use it daily/weekly. I would have at least 3 HT and a mobile unit in your BOV. 

Just friendly suggestions. I wish you the best of luck whatever plan you make for you and your family 

M


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

mtexplorer said:


> I have to agree with Jezcruzen. If you wait until the crash your chances of making it out alive are slim and none. That's not pessimistic, it's the reality of logistics. GET OUT NOW.
> 
> Unless you're traveling in a caravan with a group who is well prepared and armed, you won't have the resources to succeed. If you haven't read the novel "One Second After" you should. It's a great example of the reality of trying to get away from a heavily populated area especially the east coast where you are.
> 
> ...


That is the goal, but until it can become a reality everyone should plan for alternate situations. Just like once I get to my BOL I don't plan "JUST" for being there forever and it's all good. WHat if something happens there and I need to evac from there as well. It is why a good net of alternate plans all over is needed. I don't want to call it an underground but if that is what it is then that's what it is.... I don't like to have one set of plans and that's it. You know what I mean.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Startingout-Blair said:


> Honestly, I plan to stay where I am here in Western PA. I have been thinking for a long time that I would like to set up a "weigh station" here for fellow Preppers to stop in, get rest, some provisions, etc. a form of "safe zone". I already know that I would be setting myself up for potential disaster, but I feel strongly enough to help my fellow Preppers to get to where they need to be, that I am willing to be a "silent resister" and help others along the way that will be actively resisting TPTB.
> That being said, I remember reading somewhere that an organization called A.N.T.S. used some type of environmental (rocks, sticks, etc set up in certain designs) sign posts to guide travelers through different areas. If this were to be the beginning of an "underground" support system, it would need to be taken off line and info provided only to specific "trusted" people.


I agree but on the taking off line, and the A.N.T.S. approach for when getting near by. Mainly what I want to discuss here is different ideas on how to handle the trust issues.
You are someone who is willing to help those of us who aren't at the point of having our BOL but do have a temp BOL while we are working on getting our BOL together. I have very reliable and well trained friends out in different parts of the country but I have to be able to get there, and if we can have small safe havens for short stays (1-3 days) that makes the survivability rate go much higher. Most ambushes will be at night when people are the most vulnerable (sleeping) so if we can reduce that even by 50% then the casualty rate will drop trembiously(spelling?). Now getting to these safe haven's is each person/groups own problems and wont be addressed by this, what I am wanting to do is just figure out a safe way to have small safe havens in place that can accomodate us in the event we do make it to those areas during our travels.

Now one of the big questions is this: You are willing to help out those in need but what steps do we put in place to let those involved know that you can be trusted? What vetting process is used to instill confidence that you are who you say you are and can be trusted? Then the reverse applies too, how do we vett me and make it so that confidence is instilled that I am who I say I am and can be trusted? That is the biggest dilemma here. Once that is established everything else is a cake walk in comparison.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I honestly can not see how your plan can work. But maybe I'm just a pessimist. You do know almost ALL land in Texas is private land? Be careful planning a BOL there.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeah and if I went there I'm looking to squat somewhere. I'm not going to take what I want. I will either buy my own land or know someone who is wanting more people in their BOL to bolster it for safety reasons.

Anything can be done with the right amount of faith, prayer, determination, planning, and effort.
I was also told I would never accomplish anything in my life because of who I am and the kind of life I came from. I now own 2 business', traveled to 23 countries, had the jobs that most people dream of, and have been on adventures that others only dream of or wonder how people can actually do it...
I am an eternal optimist and I know without a doubt that it can and will be done. I'm just asking for input from those older and wiser than me. I want to learn my lessons from those who have made mistakes, not by making mistakes and having to reinvent the wheel. There are so many aspects to this idea that it would be hard to talk about it as a whole. So if anyone has an idea about a certain aspect I am open to any and all suggestions.

With proper comms, indicators, and preplanning this is very feasible not just for me and my family, but for everyone involved.

Lets just say for the sake of argument that I had to travel through PA in my evac., while traveling I found that I needed to spend a night or two at Startingout-Blair's location. We follow procdure and everything goes as planned. A few months pass and things on the east coast are getting worse and it's not really safe for Startingout-Blair to stay put anymore. Well Blair packs up and utilizes the same method and plan as others have used and can now make a safer evac from the area and wont have to be dependant on the same resources as the masses. Instead Blair travels to a secondary location and has a safer travel enroute.

This not only gives safe travel for long distance, but it also gives safer alternates for those involved in case they have to evac on a moments notice. Even if it doesn't ever get used, it's better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

No part of this involves taking advatage of others, using something that isn't ours without proper permission, or anything that could be taken as imorale, illegal, or even questionable of ethics.


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## razorback (Jul 17, 2012)

I have family on the east coast so I'd love for something like this to be in place to make their trip to me safer. DH already knows he's going to have to tie me to the nearest tree to keep me here if anything happens out there. I'm the little sister but I'm way meaner =)

I'm not sure how to verify who folks are and rule them "safe" though. Short of meeting I guess there's really no sure fire way even then some events will change a person. I'm a tender hearted person (most days) so helping others won't be an issue here. Like DH said anyone that asked for something and we can help we will. If they come in and try to take by force that's a whole new ball game. 

Maybe we could have a secret handshake =) or a cool phrase. I'd never remember a knock so we can't do that.


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## razorback (Jul 17, 2012)

Or I guess you can have a secret knock if I'm not invited to join the group =) DH is questionable LOL!!!


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Keep in mind that ham radio isn't a silver bullet when it comes to communications. Long-range radio comms require a transceiver on the HF band(s). Successful comms are also dependent on atmospheric conditions, which can change hourly. Even a multi-band mobile transceiver must have several different antennas to switch between depending upon operating band. Also, there is no security in your comms.

One possibility on establishing a network might be family, friends of distant family members that family members can vouch for, or those you served with in the military if you are a vet. I still communicate daily with many of my shipmates, many of which are located around the country. 

But, still... I believe you must have re-located before something happens.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I'm sort of in a similar situation, being in Maryland. I have often considered the same, and am now forced to give it further consideration since the most prepared half of my family is moving to Idaho. 

Obviously it would be best to already be living in or near your BOL, but for some of us, that simply isn't an option. Perhaps something akin to the old "Hobo signs"?


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

OK, I have seriously been thinking about this somewhat for about a year.

Forming a network will need to be more than just "we are preppers". You personally are going to have to go to like minded peers to get this started. 

I don't know how to explain.

Preppers are a broad spectrum of different kinds of people, you need to be more specific. Example: Christians (breaks down to Catholics, Protestants,etc) non Christian (pagans, wiccians, etc) your family and people they know, it may be people of just your race, it may be just people who are traveling sales....you got to find a more specific group to you liking and start there. A wide open, preppers welcome, let's network and get this going will not work and be hard to feel safe doing.

I hope this makes sense.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Yeahhhh, I don't think throwing split fingers and uttering "Live long and prosper" will work very well, that or "shave and a haircut on the front door...
I'm thinking on it though. 

As for comms, one of the aspects of anyone using any type of comms, is it should be understood that there can and will be issues involved, so we have redundant options in place. If no redundancy is available then you just have to wait.

I'm really liking how this is bringing here and I think we can see some real growth with this idea.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

hiwall said:


> I honestly can not see how your plan can work. But maybe I'm just a pessimist. You do know almost ALL land in Texas is private land? Be careful planning a BOL there.


Yep. Unless you actually have somewhere or someone specific to go to, this isn't the place to come wander around as a refugee.

I'm not very active as an amature radio operator, but everyone I have met has been incredibly helpful as well as friendly, and as a whole, the amature radio community is fairly involved with disaster relief. If nothing else, a radio operator in area X should be able to provide you with information on which hotels you may want to look at and which ones to avoid. I'm not hopped up on the idea of letting folks I don't really know into my home, so that's unlikely to happen. OTOH, I can't really see a problem with letting them set up a tent or a small camper for a couple of days in the pasture. Admittedly though, some may not be offered much more than advice to keep on moving.

Callsigns are a personal identifier, and that generally keeps people honest. Anyone with doubts need only examine the ULS database to tie a name and a callsign together. I'm not sure about anyone else, but when I received my license in the mail from the FCC, there were actually two, with one being wallet size and intended to be carried by the license holder.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

Shammua said:


> Yeah and if I went there I'm looking to squat somewhere. I'm not going to take what I want. I will either buy my own land or know someone who is wanting more people in their BOL to bolster it for safety reasons.
> 
> Anything can be done with the right amount of faith, prayer, determination, planning, and effort.
> I was also told I would never accomplish anything in my life because of who I am and the kind of life I came from. I now own 2 business', traveled to 23 countries, had the jobs that most people dream of, and have been on adventures that others only dream of or wonder how people can actually do it...
> ...


I have to agree. Not everyone can fight the front line. I am partially paralyzed and not going anywhere fast. If I do have to go, it's going to be rough. Rather have trusted rest stops on the way


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

After Katrina I read a first person experience written by a man that had an open invitation to a handful of his friends. In the process of evacuating they invited other friends. This man and his property were overrun with people he did not know. These people showed up without supplies and no way to acquire them. They might have a checkbook from a bank that is underwater, (this is not a pun) and had no way to verify funds. It cost him tens of thousands to support these people. Don't show up unannounced, without food, without cash, without a firearm and the skill to use it and expect someone to provide for you. If you do have an invite only bring those on the invitation. Be careful about who you invite and make sure that they know that if they show up with too many passengers they will find the door closed. Your safe harbor could be hit by a tsunami that would sink your preps.

Communications could be accomplished with CB or VHF for close range and ham for further distances. Time and frequency schedules will help simplify communication. A simple code should provide adequate security. Don't forget your cell phone, who knows, it might work.

As for finding help along the way, what groups do you belong to? Is there a chapter to a club you belong to on your route? Might it be a good idea to attend a meeting every year so you are not a stranger? There is no need to mention why you are seeking their friendship. You might also preposition supplies including, but not limited to, fuel, food, and water. This can be stored at storage units along your expected path, in geo caches, or at a friends place.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

There is a certain group that offers a certain type of coin for identification.
Maybe using a "Classic" Disney character as a password, classic because there are too many new ones. I told my kids that unless someone said "Snow White", I didn't send them to pick them up. 
It maybe that one person would have to have everyone's address that wanted to be part of the URR (underground rail road) so whatever was decided on could be mailed the information. 
I would start with a map. Pinpoint the area's that had someone willing to help and notates exactly what each location could help supply, i.e.: space for tent, camper, food, room, information, etc. Some may only have a small place for someone to pitch a tent, but if it was secured, it would be worth it for a good night's sleep before going on. 

I'm on the Northeast side of Atlanta.


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## farright (Mar 25, 2010)

to not have a bol in mind your talking 1200 + miles when i was trucken i could do that in 20 to 24 hrs in a shtf you could b talking days if at all road blocks would u have a trailer with supplies what if you need fuel do u expect safe haven to supply your not sure where you are going texas black hills etc lot of logistics involvd to not have a bol and cahes along the way think there probably be 0 services what about flat tires breakdowns to far to go i personaly wouldnt want a bol that i couldnt walk to in a 3 to 5 days if i had to just my cent n a half sorry about run on sentance on dumb phone dont like the smart ones


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I think this idea has a lot of merit, even with its multitude of obvious problems.
Short of an actual face to face meeting, there is no way to actually vet anyone. Our society is based on trust, everyone would just have to live with it, and deal with potential consequences.
You would have to have a list of addresses along with a map. These would have to be secure. Encrypted? Too much?



Caribou said:


> As for finding help along the way, what groups do you belong to? Is there a chapter to a club you belong to on your route?


Now thats a great idea. Church, IWLA, your local range?

Turtle, and all yall on the ES-can stop up here off 270...


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Great input so far and I think it's helping to formulate a great starting point that doesn't need anything to be confidential so far. Address's and names of course would be along with what they are willing to provide.... At least in the beginning phase.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

First face to face could be in a neutral place- a park or coffee shop.


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