# 4 wheel steering 4x4 vehicles



## iForgeDesigns

Does anyone know of any vehicles that have 4 wheel steering, meaning the rear wheels turn when you turn the steering wheel; that are also 4x4 or able to go off road? not necessarily cars or trucks but also go-carts or the large versions of go-carts that almost look like cars without doors or anything dont know if they are still called go-carts or not.


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## helicopter5472

GM built trucks maybe 8-10 years or so ago that had 4 wheel steering


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## helicopter5472

GMC 2002  Honda Accord 1991

Also Check out Polaris someone told me end of July they are coming out with a vehicle called slingshot ???

I tried to look it up, no real pics but an image looks like one of the three wheel motorcycles with two in the front design...So this is probably nothing, sorry


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## Tirediron

Any live axle 4x4 that you put 2 steering axles into, yeah it is that simple, just not hiway legal (and you have to rig up the steering too, most would want 4 wheel steer, crab steer and either front or rear steer.


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## VUnder

I have a couple of Pettibone crane axles that are strong enough for this. When you put a steering axle in the rear, it needs to be stout. A regular rear axle is all simple and straight items with no u-joints in them, and are strong. Like a log skidder, the axles are like two regular rear differentials, the machine steers by hinging in the middle, or articulation. The Pettibone steers by using two steering wheels. One regular wheel for the front steering and a bar like steering wheel directly under the other wheel that operates the rear steer. So, if you drive any distance, just put the rear wheels in straight and use the top steering wheel to drive like normal. A lot of setups like you are wanting use hydraulic ram assist. Just got through working on a 64 Impala SS that had that type steering on the front. My old hi boy fords have that type of power steering. If the fluid gets low, you can't hardly drive it. Thinking about welding me a solid tie rod and doing away with the power steering.


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## helicopter5472

Sounds like you want something small like a 4 wheeler or side by side. By the time you rig up something you will spent a lot of time and money. Something as small as a 4 wheeler does not benefit from such alteration. GM built full size trucks for a few years for ease of parking ect. Few people bought them and basically they worked but were a flop. The bigger and longer wheel base vehicle's are the ones which benefit from this.


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## cnsper

the most common right now is a telehandler forklift. not much speed to those though.


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## NaeKid

iForgeDesigns said:


> Does anyone know of any vehicles that have 4 wheel steering, meaning the rear wheels turn when you turn the steering wheel; that are also 4x4 or able to go off road? not necessarily cars or trucks but also go-carts or the large versions of go-carts that almost look like cars without doors or anything dont know if they are still called go-carts or not.


Sure .. been done. A guy I know builds them out of Kelowna, BC


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## iForgeDesigns

mike_dippert said:


> Factory four wheel steering? That GM truck is all I can think of.
> Homemade? Relatively easy to do, but doing it safe and proper requires some know-how.


Please enlighten me


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## iForgeDesigns

mike_dippert said:


> Well the GM thing was called quadrasteer and available on 2002-2005 2500 series trucks and suburbans. It had a rack/pinion bolted to the rear axle. It only has 10 degrees of steering, compared to 30+ of a normal steering axle. I have no idea what kind of fail-safes it used.
> 
> A quick-and-dirty homemade job just needs a front axle. Make a simple tie rod, and mount a single ended ram between it and the axle housing. Get a self-contained electric pump/reservoir. There are button and joystick controls. You'll need to make suspension brackets.
> 
> Properly designed.
> You want about 6-8* of caster so if you have a loss of pressure, the wheels will inherently try to return to center. All cars have a physical connection between the steering wheel and the tires, so a pressure loss only made steering more difficult, but not impossible (The infinity Q50's steer by wire is an exception, but there's still a physical backup in case of system failure).
> 
> You have two options of making the rear a steering axle. You can retube a front axle, or put C's on an existing rear. If you use a front, you need to cut the long tube and replace the short tube so the pinion is centered behind the transmission or transfer case. If you use a rear, you need to cut them down equally to compensate for the length added by the C's, knuckles, and hubs. Either way, before you weld the C's to the tubes, adjust them to the proper caster and pinion angles.
> 
> I prefer double ended rams because their force and speed is equal in both directions. They are typically welded to an axle truss/bridge and linked to each steering arm with an adjustable tie rod. I know steering controls offer an electronic return-to-center feature, but I'm not sure if any rams offer it too (via springs or other mechanical means).
> 
> Controls come in push button and joystick options. You can probably make a fully mechanical control, but I would go for electronic. A return-to-center control is very convenient.
> 
> You'll need a self-contained pump/reservoir.
> 
> Some kind of lock-out device would be nice. If you lose pressure (and can't repair the hydraulics) and manage to come to a stop without destroying your vehicle, you can physically lock the wheels in a centered position.
> 
> Suspension bracketry will depend entirely on your vehicle and axle width combination. You'll almost certainly have to fabricate something.


Thanks for the info i have some automotive experience and welding skill, but have never put the two together. Maybe ill try this on the weekend and see how it turns out, itll be quite a project.


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## Tirediron

building a rear steer diff is a fairly complicated process, to get all of the angles right, putting an existing front diff in the rear is a lot easier, other than the off set carrier. the gears are the same as a similar model rear axle. you really want to make sure that you need rear steer, just the steering system can be quite a project. check out some rock crawler sites, they build all kind of interesting toys.


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## readytogo

*All wheel steering*

http://olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_6000m_rtf.php

Back in my army days I drove a smaller version
View attachment 9128


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## Tirediron

the mil spec Jeep would be especially easy to rear steer because of the offset rear drive shaft, maybe that was the idea all along and the solid axle only got their to speed up the process (cause there was a bit of a war going on at the time of development.


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## HamiltonFelix

Obviously there's a big difference between building a DIY four wheel steer loader (which I've seen many years ago, built on axles from surplus 6x6 trucks) or pure offroad vehicle, and building a safe roadworthy four wheel steer vehicle. 

Does anyone recall the reasons GM dropped those four wheel steer pickups and Suburbans? I recall they were not available in anything more beefy than a heavy half ton. I looked under one, saw the little tie rods, and wondered what might happen if you backed into a short stump out in the woods. 

I recall a commercial where the GM quad steer rig backed a good sized horse trailer in tight quarters. At the time, I had been driving a K2500 Suburban for years, and that rear steer looked a bit vulnerable to me. 

I've seen farm equipment and mobile cranes that can front steer, rear steer, both steer for sharp turns, or crab steer for sidehills. But these are low speed machines.


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## HamiltonFelix

Forgot to mention: Red Green has it all down to a science.


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## Woody

K.I.S.S.

More moving parts, more to break. How many times would you actually NEED to have rear wheel steering also?? Need to turn tighter get a shorter wheelbase! I never had an issue maneuvering a full sized 4 wheel drive pickup in any situation. Only once can I remember (and my memory is not all that great anymore!) having to disengage the transfer case to slide the ass end around to make a really tight maneuver. Most times one or two more forward/back maneuvers did the trick.


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## Woody

HamiltonFelix said:


> Forgot to mention: Red Green has it all down to a science.


LOL!!! Never heard of him before, THANK YOU!!!


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