# Scratch-built vehicle



## NaeKid

I was wondering if anyone has scratch-built or purpose-built a vehicle that was deemed street-legal in every aspect of it? I collect MatchBox and HotWheels cars to play with (with my grandson) and one that I purchased is called "RollCage" pictured here.










I was thinking that I might be able to build a real version of this car (rear-engine, two wheel drive dune-buggy) and use a transverse mounted engine / transmission to power it (thinking of pulling the drive-train out of a front-wheel-drive car), build up the tube-work, fasten body panels, put a licence plate on it and drive it around.

Any thoughts from people who have looked into this, or, completed something like this before?


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## Canadian

Not me. But I know it can be done.


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## NaeKid

I have met quite a few people who have re-bodied existing titled vehicles (think of the Volkswagon -> Porcshe conversions or the Fiero -> Farrari conversions) or even built "made-for-movie" cars / trucks.

I am basically wondering that if I took a vehicle (Chevy Cavalier for instance) and licenced / insured it as a Chevy Cavalier - how much of it would I need to keep in existance before it becomes a kit-car and needs to recieve a new VIN?


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## Canadian

It varies. I don't know how it works in Alberta but in the U.S. each state has a rule on what parts of the car are used as the basis for registration and title. It is usually a part that has the VIN number on it. Sometimes it's the motor. Other places it's the cross member that holds up the motor. There have been people who have pulled rusted Superbirds out of lake beds and used a single piece of the original car to build a so called "restored" car by just using the piece needed for registration and building the rest from NOS and fabricated parts. 

A shop that does frame off restorations might now. For the most part movie cars start off as some kind of regular car and are heavily modified. Though I'm sure you can make a car completely from scratch (tubing, bender, welder etc.) I have no clue how you'd register it or how to make it street legal. I'm sure it has been done but it is very unusual.

Alberta has a bigger car culture than Toronto so I bet there's someone local at a hot rod shop who would know. Perhaps a rat rodder? They chop their rides down to almost nothing and put parts on from a million other cars. They might know?


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## youpock

I know in the US lots of people make sand rails and they start with just simple tubular chassis. I'm pretty sure to make them legal its like a $100 dmv feel plus a brakes/lights check. I'll my buddy, he's made like 5, he'll know the details. But I don't think they are highway legal, only the street.

They make enough parts for the vw based sand rails and buggies that you can buy every part for the car brand new shipped to your door. Some of the stuff is actually pretty cool; the instance the brakes have a petal/reservoir/master cylinder all in one that just bolts to where ever you need it.


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## northernontario

youpock said:


> .... Some of the stuff is actually pretty cool; the instance the brakes have a petal/reservoir/master cylinder all in one that just bolts to where ever you need it.


Not that special... very common in racing applications. Whole pedal assembly that mounts to the floor (or wherever you want)... clutch pedal + m/c, brake pedal + m/c (and dual master-cylinders with balance-bar for adjustable front/back proportioning), and gas pedal.

I have no idea what the rules are regarding custom-built vehicles on the road. Depends a lot on your location, and just how crazy it looks.


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## xj35s

*Well I built this...*

This chassis was bent and welded by a friend. The engine/trans/t-case are from my doner '87 XJ(Cherokee).

The front axle is custom built by me. A 1990 Dana 30 center section with 2001 Dana 30 outer knuckles, and cross over steering. It is full welded diff.

The rear is from a ford explorer. It's an 8.8" with limited slip diff. mounted by a four link suspension and nitrogen gas shocks.

Picture of buggy is as before I bought it. I lost my recent pics in hard drive crash. Previous owner/builder used it for competition with a V8 and Dana 60's.

Legal in NYS with lights. Clean title from 1972 Jeep CJ-7 of which only 3 feet of frame rails remain in the very front of the tube chassis.


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## Canadian

There you go. 3 feet of frame rail. You only need certain pieces for the title and registration. Though I know it is different in some states. Not sure about Canadian provinces.


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## NaeKid

xj35s - sweet unit there!

What I see is a "CJ-looking vehicle" titled as a "CJ-vehicle" and when the police pull you over for whatever they can think of to tag you with, they will see "Jeep" on your registration-papers (or title I believe it is called in the US) and the vehicle you are driving looks kind of like one - so they would let it pass.

I guess that the answer that I am looking for is: having a vehicle titled as a "1997 Chevy Cavalier" that doesn't look anything like a Cavalier in any aspect of it, would I need to keep major parts (like the engine cross-member, firewall, steering-wheel, badges, tail-lights) to hold onto the status of that car?


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## szabotage

that CJ looks awful familiar. I'm sure I've seen him wheelin paragon before it closed down


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## youpock

well technically anything you do is only illegal if you get caught...


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## szabotage

in ontario,canada, there's a vehicle classification called 'fairweather vehicle' which allows vehicles to lack mudflaps, doors, windshields and some other stuff. expect insurance rates to go up tho.


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## xj35s

*yup*

Szabotage. You are right. That's Brian Whaley in competition at neuroc and that pic is at Paragon. I sure miss that place. Rousch Creek is allot further for me.

In NY it is perfectly Legal to register any vehicle as "Homebuilt". It has to pass NYS Inspection at a NY authorized Facility. It has to be trailered or towed to the location and if it passes, you get papers for DMV for title. Then you register it. takes 2 months at best.

My loophole is having a clean title old enough to not need to pass all the emissions requirements. It's exempt. It's okay to put a new engine in an old car. you can't put an old engine (carb) in a new car. Laws go by date of manufacture not date of modification.

I've seen allot of racers with Honda's and Toyota's that look nothing like a production car. LED taillights and ground effects. Rattle can mufflers. Over size rims/tires.

I know the Cavalier is a strong car and reliable. Mine ('03) goes almost anywhere in the winter with good tires. Trust me....


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## NaeKid

The reason why I got into 4x4's was because of my 1995 Cavalier. We had a dump of 17" overnight here (other areas were 24" and 30" that same night), buried the car and it took me 7hrs to dig it out (started to dig out at 5am) - and - I finally got enough snow moved that I was able to drive to work - only to be told to go home, the city was shut-down.

At that point I started to hunt up a 4x4 - and since then, have always had one.

I would like to try something different for a vehicle - hence the tube-car or sand-rail idea. When I saw the Ariel Atom, I knew that I wanted something like that.


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## sinbad

> I collect MatchBox and HotWheels cars to play with (with my grandson)


And I was afraid to admit playing with toy cars with my son !! LOL


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## NaeKid

sinbad said:


> And I was afraid to admit playing with toy cars with my son !! LOL


Never be afraid to admit to playing with toys with the little ones.

I have no TV to "entertain" or "baby-sit" my grandson - I play with him on his level. We read books, play with cars, trains, puzzles, and I am slowly introducing him to some board games and crokinole (he loves crokinole).

I am also teaching him how to cook and bake. He helps me put the ingredients into the bowl for pancakes, stir up the mix (all by hand) and I take care of the cooking because it is too hot for him (he is almost 5). Grandma helps him put the butter and syrup on the pancakes and we have our Saturday-morning breakfast that way.


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## Canadian

My car is a 2002 Cavalier. It has jumped curbs, burned plenty of rubber, and even help me evade capture on several occasions. Still going strong. Apart from fluids and a new set of tires it has not cost me a penny. I'm hoping it makes it to at least ten years old. If it gets past ten years I might restore it instead of getting a new car. 

I never use snows. In Toronto they plow and salt like crazy. I also enjoy getting the car sideways on a nice snowy night. I've never gotten stuck or in an accident for lack of snows.


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## NaeKid

Canadian said:


> I never use snows. In Toronto they plow and salt like crazy. I also enjoy getting the car sideways on a nice snowy night. I've never gotten stuck or in an accident for lack of snows.


Try waking up to snow half-way up the doors and the moment you try to move the car, it is high-centered on the snow in the middle of the road. Being high-centered sucks! I am not knocking the Cavalier - I loved it to pieces, but, I found limitations in it that I was not willing to deal with.


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## szabotage

gotta love driving in ontario winters. I especially hate that salty slush on warm days that make the roads like driving on grease.

well, I thought I'd show some pics of my recent build. it's kind of a scratch built vehicle, moreso a purpose built vehicle specific to my needs.

some before pics:


















and after I pulled the motor for another project and sold the front axle










ready to go under the knife:










interior gutted










new motor










making room for the new powertrain (toyota W56 5speed, top shift 23 spl. transfer case modified to reduction box, with a D300 adapter)



















this truck will also be part jeep (modified D300 for true twinstick)










and for now, I'll be running a set of toy axles (building some 609's but realizing how expensive they are to build)


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## szabotage

the plans are to turn the body into a pickup cab, extend the frame and put a 7-8 ft flatdeck with storage space underneath. a removable roof rack to store more goods or my canoes, and a place to set up my tent, I'll be running a york AC compressor off the motor for on board air into a 16 gallon air tank, and compartments to store basic hand/air tools, recovery gear, and certain bug out survival gear (minus firearms).will eventually want an on board welder, and possibly a hot water shower.

this thing was my daily driver for 5 years with no more than a SPOA, hi steer, panhard bar, 29" BFG's,traction bar and a cammed n headered 1.6 8V EFI. worked well on and offroad and gas was pretty cheap but after a while the short wheelbase ride got to me. also there wasn't enough power to pull a trailer or when fully loaded. I'm hoping the new motor, wheelbase and wider axles will help make this a more desirable daily driver yet won't lack on it's offroad capabilities.


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## NaeKid

I take it that you are in Ontario as well then?

I love those old sami's .. they are just great off-road and decent on-road. If I wasn't so immersed in the Jeep-world, I would probably have one of those. As of right now, I have 4 Jeeps in my house-hold, a truck and a mini-van. I am hoping to get rid of the truck and mini-van - release one of the 4 Jeeps and get myself a tow-truck (1-ton 4x4 truck, flat-deck hauler) to haul anything that I need to haul - vehicles, water, trailer, etc.


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## szabotage

yup, just outside of the nation's capital. I'm more of a toyota guy, but I really like the size of these sammis, they seem to fit anywhere a quad or UTV goes with the added bonus of being street legal and a roof with heat. they make good platforms for a buildup. not a big fan of the their power/drivetrain tho. that's why it has some jeep and toy stuff (and some honda)

when I first started out in 4x4 trucks (I used to be into dirtbikes ever since I was 4), I was into jeeps (3 CJ's, 2 J10's and an XJ), then fords (2 78 bronco's) than finally toys and sammis. from my experiences with jeep, all I can say is they don't make them like they used to. the only exception I'd have to that is the rubi's. you can't beat a package like that. not a big fan of D30/35's or the NP 231.

also, having such a small offroad vehicle, I can finally afford a tow vehicle that's descent on gas. my GMC safari seems suffice for towing on a 5x10 flatdeck.


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## sinbad

Forgive me for the naiive question , but if you make so many changes like this , isn't it better to restart from another car that is closer to what you need and modify it just a little ? 

Like if you want to be able to pull a trailer or have more power, you start with something bigger to begin with ( bigger engine, bigger interior, bigger tires ..etc. ) and then change a few things. 

If I had a Suzuki like this one, I will keep it almost as is for better every day mileage, while at the same time it can drive on any ROAD ( not necessarily any TERRAIN ).


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## szabotage

I don't want to get into the details of what the purpose of this vehicle will be for but it involves getting lots of gear in and out of a secluded, hard to reach area. I won't be towing more than my 4x6 trailer and a fullsize is just too damn big where I'll need to be going.


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## NaeKid

sinbad said:


> Forgive me for the naiive question , but if you make so many changes like this , isn't it better to restart from another car that is closer to what you need and modify it just a little ?
> 
> Like if you want to be able to pull a trailer or have more power, you start with something bigger to begin with ( bigger engine, bigger interior, bigger tires ..etc. ) and then change a few things.
> 
> If I had a Suzuki like this one, I will keep it almost as is for better every day mileage, while at the same time it can drive on any ROAD ( not necessarily any TERRAIN ).


If the saying "Size matters" means anything ... sometimes the best size is tiny and sometimes best size is huge. You wouldn't drive an 18-wheeler down a fire-road - the size is way to tall / wide to fit. You wouldn't drive a quad down the highway - the size is way to small to be safe.

If I understand correctly what szabotage is really needing, it is an oversized quad - about the size of a side-by-side but with a little more get-up-n-go and requiring the street-legal qualities.


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## bunkerbob

I saw this on another site, too big or too small, or maybe too cool.

Amphibious LARC LX 60-ton Rescue Salvage Supply Cargo:eBay Motors (item 250526971912 end time Nov-14-09 15:55:50 PST)


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## xj35s

I agree entirely on the 231. That D300 is bullet proof. Some times you have to take the best of all and put them into one that is great.

I wanted to go Toyota for my rear. I went to a local pick and pull yard to find all the toy axles where missing parts. I like the ford rears, very heavy and durable.

The D30 has an equally strong diff as the D44. The newer axles are stronger with D44 u-joints (295X). With the 2001 grand cherokee outer knuckles and custom machined steering links, I have $1000 into the front axle.


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## GREASEMONKEY

NaeKid said:


> I was wondering if anyone has scratch-built or purpose-built a vehicle that was deemed street-legal in every aspect of it? Any thoughts from people who have looked into this, or, completed something like this before?


My first job in the auto industry was a VW restoration & custom shop. We built stocker's, drag, dune buggy, sand rails, kit car's, and any other thing you can imagine.
I wonce built a modified blueprint sand rail for a customer. It was street legal, and ran all terrain tires. It was very capable, and powerful.
It was built to resemble this:










It was powered by a subaru 4cyl turbo motor, and mated to a VW tranny that was built to handle the beating of offroad. It was street legal, and pushed 285hp on the dyno. It would take a corvette light to light, and still had the rugged design to handle being bounced around in the trails.

If you are capable of a bit of fabrication, and have the needed tools, it can be done for a realistic price. I would say in todays market, 6-7K out of pocket.


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## NaeKid

GreaseMonkey - that buggy looks awesome and you say that you built it to be street-legal too! Perfect!!!

Do you think that the frontwheel drivetrain (lets say from a transverse-mounted V8-powered Caddy) would be a good engine / drivetrain choice or should I go with something a little lighter in the 4 or 6-cyl variety if / when I build this idea?


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## TechAdmin

That's awesome.


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## bunkerbob

Chenoweth racing was in the same town, El Cajon, CA that I lived in about 15 years ago, you could drive by and see prototypes being built in their yard.ShadowSpear Special Operations - Desert Patrol Vehicle (DPV)
They are awesome.


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## GREASEMONKEY

NaeKid said:


> GreaseMonkey - that buggy looks awesome and you say that you built it to be street-legal too! Perfect!!!
> 
> Do you think that the frontwheel drivetrain (lets say from a transverse-mounted V8-powered Caddy) would be a good engine / drivetrain choice or should I go with something a little lighter in the 4 or 6-cyl variety if / when I build this idea?


That's what it was based off, but there were no pics of the one i built. I wish i had some pics of all my prodjects from that job. They were all great.

We went with 14" travel coil over air shocks, and custom suspension. Street legal was merely a set of belts, and working lights.

I have seen all sorts of engine tans combo's. The most durable ones are usually 4 or 6 cyl engines from sports cars. Somthing that's made to beat on from the get go...just my theory. Trans can be done in all sorts of ways. 
My favorite combo fro a buggy is a racing VW engine. 1.9/2.1 with a porsche cooling system, and a VW micro buss built tranny. 
My last baja bug was running a 2332 Berg.
Bergmann VW
I cant find the site, but KEVIN SHULL RACE CARS built all my trannies. He is one of the best for VW tranny work.


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## LincTex

NaeKid said:


> Do you think that the front wheel drivetrain (lets say from a transverse-mounted V8-powered Caddy) would be a good engine / drivetrain choice or should I go with something a little lighter


I ran into a guy at a gas station with a 4 place rail that had a hemi v8 in the back end. Turns out it was a Cadillac Northstar v8. Very badass.... the transaxle was a custom unit at $7000. The whole rig cost him $59,000 turn-key.


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## Tirediron

Here is an example of a serious scratch build machine, I have known the builder since he was a teen ager,(Naekid knows him too) he does some serious nice work http://www.fourwheeler.com/project-vehicles/131-0701-mini-monster-tube-buggy/

that article is pretty old, the warthog has evolved quite a bit since then.


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## pacificredwood

LincTex said:


> I ran into a guy at a gas station with a 4 place rail that had a hemi v8 in the back end. Turns out it was a Cadillac Northstar v8. Very badass.... the transaxle was a custom unit at $7000. The whole rig cost him $59,000 turn-key.


Seems like a lot of money.


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## Meerkat

Heres a less honest way to build it,lol.


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## kcatto

Well to revive an old thread here, I have re-powered several new trucks with old engines it totally depends on the state in which you live in and the laws of the state in which that vehicle is titled in. The last swap I did was a 2004 Dodge 2500 4x4 with a 1974 dodge 360CID with holley truck avenger carburetor. 46RE trans. perfectly legal to do here where I live. No emissions testing or inspections where I live. funny thing is, kinda for fun we put it on my buddies emissions sniffer and it passed without cats just headers and flowmasters. As for a buggy I built a 2 seater chenoweth chassis into mid engine with a corvair motor, seems like a million years ago and got it tagged and street legal, just had to add lights, horn, turn signals, and windshield and wipers... I had zero problems in tagging it... I drove it for years, man I would like to have back half of the vehicles I have sold or traded over the years. but there is always another project.


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## helicopter5472

The key words for me..... Like you said

I would like to have back half of the vehicles I have sold or traded over the years. but there is always another project.


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## readytogo

*Building your own vehicle information,by state.*


http://www.dmv.org/custom-built-cars.php


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## Fn/Form

Every single SOF guy who actually deployed with the Chenoweths has said they were ill suited to their tasks. Loaded for patrol it became a slow, poor handling transport that kept getting stuck off road. Talk about being hopping mad, super frustrated and ready to kill...

The newer style Supacat HMATs are an interesting concept. Although an affordable one for me would be a home brew Mad Max vehicle...


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## kcatto

readytogo said:


> http://www.dmv.org/custom-built-cars.php


This is a cool site for reference, but it sure makes it seem more difficult than it really is in my state.

I just did a custom vehicle registration three months ago. It was easy, sent the paperwork in to tax commission and 4wks later got paperwork back went to tag agency and paid for new tag.


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## Wellrounded

I'd hate to think what it would involve to put a vehicle on the road here. Would cost a small fortune. 

Hubby build a Terrapin (google terrapin racing) from scratch many moons ago and won the Australian Hill Climb championship in it


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## LincTex

Wellrounded said:


> Hubby build a Terrapin (google terrapin racing) from scratch many moons ago and won the Australian Hill Climb championship in it


Small, light weight,... and lots of power.

Sounds like a toy most any man would want to play with!


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## kcatto

I was talking to my father in law, and he was talking about building a bush rangie. very cool vehicle...


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## Wellrounded

LincTex said:


> Small, light weight,... and lots of power.
> 
> Sounds like a toy most any man would want to play with!


I'm pretty sure he wishes he still had it 
Not long after he won the championship he was doing a drive around the Bathurst Circuit, NSW prior to race day and an illegal street racer ran into the back of him. Destroyed the Terrapin, the trailer and his daily drive. Was a pretty low time for him. We found out not that long ago that someone had found the car (in a scrap yard?? no idea ) and restored it and is racing it again. Hubby is not sure if he wants to go see it  too sad for him, the accident was the end of a big part of his life.


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