# found a EMP proof generator 120 v



## aklavik (Nov 20, 2010)

so visiting a old friend today and he shows me a 1943 continental generator 600 amp 120 volt gen set on a trailer, completely rebuilt WW2 surplus , even new paint, great score, traded a old Harley for it. every thing is mechanical, even the fuse bank is old style screw in glass fuses , all analog gauges big fuses between every thing, brushes, gauges, breakers etc etc can completely isolate every component , down side weighs 1200 lbs, if there is intrest I will post pics


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Sure it would be neat to see it. Only problem I see is it wouldn't really be very compliant for todays electronics.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Sweet! Of course we want pics!


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## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

Would love to see it.



helicopter5472 said:


> Sure it would be neat to see it. Only problem I see is it wouldn't really be very compliant for todays electronics.


That's not something that would bother me any. When it comes time that I need a generator, I'm not going to need any modern electronics! Just an old fridge to keep the beer cold. :cheers:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> Sure it would be neat to see it. Only problem I see is it wouldn't really be very compliant for todays electronics.


I can't see that being a problem at all, imo. Most "electronics" run on dc anyways, and the conversion smooths things out a lot. Wave form can be an issue but this will have a better sine than any "True" sine wave inverter.

I would be sure to check the voltages of course and the hz but other than that I wouldn't hesitate to plug in most anything.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Well yea, perfect for shop equipment, ect. Since I'm not up on all this as I should be here is a question. I have 4 small ups battery backups. 3 are APC and one is a Geek Squad. When I switch over to the generator, all continue to beep as there is still a loss of power and will not charge themselves back up. I have one new refrigerator that has electronic controls which also will not operate but will still light the front temp readings up. all other refrigerators, well pump, and other electronics ect work. I have tried two other late model gen-sets with the same results. Any ideas why this is. I haven't found anyone with an inverter genset to try to see if that cures it.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

There is no reason that those old generators would not give a good sine wave, they have slip rings on the armature, the only thing that would be needed is to make sure the governor is working properly to keep the frequency within limits. I have a friend that is an expert in generators and he likes the old generators the best as they really have high quality copper windings, heavy armature and field iron plates and most often on large generators they have a DC generator on the same shaft for exciting the AC generators field windings. The older generators ran at much lower RPM's, commonly 1,800 RPM, bearings and engines are less likely to break down than some screaming away at 3,600 RPM. He just set up a farmer in California with a 1950 four cylinder Detroit diesel powered generator for running an irrigation pump. I had considered getting a very old generator from him that sounds about the same age as the one you mention, he had two, one was crank start and the other could be started by motorizing the generator and I'm pretty sure he said the engine were Continental, I know they had a magneto for ignition and they were 120 VAC only. And yeah, they were heavy. I certainly wouldn't be afraid to run a house or shop on that generator, the only downside is it being just 120, I don't know how available step up transformers are if you needed 240 for water heaters, welders or clothes dryer. That might be a factor for you, otherwise that generator has enough power that you could take care of a few close neighbors if needed.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> When I switch over to the generator, all continue to beep as there is still a loss of power and will not charge themselves back up. I have one new refrigerator that has electronic controls which also will not operate but will still light the front temp readings up. all other refrigerators, well pump, and other electronics ect work. I have tried two other late model gen-sets with the same results. Any ideas why this is. I haven't found anyone with an inverter genset to try to see if that cures it.


2 things to try/check

-check the frequency and voltage using something other than the meter on the generator itself. These meters are the cheapest the manufacturer can purchase.

-Place another load on the generator. Generator regulation is geared toward fast response time and with zero or very little load they tend to be unstable. Something like a space heater would provide enough of a load to test this.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

labotomi said:


> 2 things to try/check
> 
> -check the frequency and voltage using something other than the meter on the generator itself. These meters are the cheapest the manufacturer can purchase.
> 
> -Place another load on the generator. Generator regulation is geared toward fast response time and with zero or very little load they tend to be unstable. Something like a space heater would provide enough of a load to test this.


I tried a voltmeter it shows 120v per side I used the well pump as a load it only varies only a couple volts for just a second. I will see about a freq. meter. Remember I have tried several gensets. One is a Yamaha 6500D that's on it now. I have tried several gas gens which have more of a quick drop in voltage under a load than this diesel one.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> I tried a voltmeter it shows 120v per side I used the well pump as a load it only varies only a couple volts for just a second. I will see about a freq. meter. Remember I have tried several gensets. One is a Yamaha 6500D that's on it now. I have tried several gas gens which have more of a quick drop in voltage under a load than this diesel one.


My intent when recommending putting a load on the generator was to see if the UPS would operate. Place a steady constant load on the generator so that it's doing some work and then see if the UPS will function with the generator loaded.

When these generators are unloaded the voltage and frequency regulation is unstable. I don't want to go into PiD loops but the generator will overshoot it's setpoint more when unloaded. It will oscillate around 60Hz and around 120V. How much it varies depends on a lot of things. Putting a load on it will dampen the overshooting of the setpoint and the voltage and frequency will be more stable. Whether it's enough to help or not I don't know.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

And a static load like light bulbs or a heating coil is more of a stabilizer than a dynamic load like a motor which can actually cause frequency and voltage fluctuations. maybe not on paper but it does in the real empirical data world


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

labotomi said:


> My intent when recommending putting a load on the generator was to see if the UPS would operate. Place a steady constant load on the generator so that it's doing some work and then see if the UPS will function with the generator loaded.
> 
> When these generators are unloaded the voltage and frequency regulation is unstable. I don't want to go into PiD loops but the generator will overshoot it's setpoint more when unloaded. It will oscillate around 60Hz and around 120V. How much it varies depends on a lot of things. Putting a load on it will dampen the overshooting of the setpoint and the voltage and frequency will be more stable. Whether it's enough to help or not I don't know.


I understand what you are saying. We had an outage today due to high winds probably from that hurricane. It lasted almost three hours. We ran two different gens both over an hour each. They ran the entire household to include the well 240V one refrig and one freezer, fans, lights ect. Both gensets were under load and sometimes more than others. None of the ups would stop beeping or recharge back, and one newer refrig with the electronic front info center would not work either. This is why I guessed that the more sensitive electronics need the inverter type gen-set? I have several smaller gens a 1000 Yamaha and another 2k one and have connected the ups to them with a floodlight for load and they still don't charge. No problem with grid juice though. so far I'm at a loss???


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

helicopter5472, I have heard this complaint before, however I have charged UPS including APC ones from generators many times:dunno:. Depending on the model are you able to hook one up to the computer through USB or Ethernet to access it's firmware? Sometimes you are able to adjust the sensitivity settings. 

I have also heard of people having trouble with "sine wave inverter" generators and a UPS (it isn't a true sine wave).

As to the "sensitive" electronics, it is really just "poorly designed" imho, I have seen many server rooms, routers, computers, camera and film equipment, etc, running on generators without the slightest glitch. Sure, it is better to run it through a UPS (preferably a high quality rack mount with a separate battery compartment) or just a battery bank and inverter but the most high tech equipment should not have a problem.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> I understand what you are saying. We had an outage today due to high winds probably from that hurricane. It lasted almost three hours. We ran two different gens both over an hour each. They ran the entire household to include the well 240V one refrig and one freezer, fans, lights ect. Both gensets were under load and sometimes more than others. None of the ups would stop beeping or recharge back, and one newer refrig with the electronic front info center would not work either. This is why I guessed that the more sensitive electronics need the inverter type gen-set? I have several smaller gens a 1000 Yamaha and another 2k one and have connected the ups to them with a floodlight for load and they still don't charge. No problem with grid juice though. so far I'm at a loss???


I would still check the frequency with a handheld meter. If it's right at 60Hz then without an O-scope it becomes a guessing game.

Lower end UPS units dont usually have sensitivity settings on them but you might take a look and lower the sensitivity as far as it can go.

The only other trial option is to add a line reactor. It's basically a 1:1 ratio transformer in a special configuration that reduces dips and spikes on the sinewave. The downside is that it'll cost money.

Either one on the output of the generator sized for all the generator loads or a smaller one sized for the sensitive components that will have to be used on that circuit.

about $120 for a 5.5KVA unit capable of the generator output (if you don't max load it). 
about $60 for a 1KVA unit which would most likely carry the refrigerator and UPS units.

Both priced at automationdirect.com You could probably find one on Ebay for less.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

Does it look anything like mine?


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