# Harbor Freight Solar Panel Kit



## sailaway

Is anybody comfortable with Harbor Freight Equiptment? Their current sales paper has a 45watt sloar pannel kit for $169.99, $80.00 off. Would you feel comfortable buying something this technical from a company like this. I suppose it all comes from China anyways.


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## pills

What item number?


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## xj35s

I can tell you they have great service and backing. If you buy the extended warranty They will replace it no questions asked. I think up to 3 years.


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## sailaway

pills said:


> What item number?


I don't know but can probably find out. It was in an advertising circular that come in the mail last week.


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## sailaway

The advertising circular labeled it as Chicago Electric Power Systems Lot#90599. Under the UPC Bar is the # 39148291. I saw an 80 watt system at Menards this weekend for $500.00. It was by Sunpower or Sunsource. I'm not sure about its quality either.


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## pills

I dont know if it is a full endorsement but in the show the colony they got most of their stuff including the panels from harbor freight.


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## youpock

pills said:


> I don't know if it is a full endorsement but in the show the colony they got most of their stuff including the panels from harbor freight.


That show is sometimes too obvious, they "stumbled" onto a supply of harbor freight power tools...

Some of hf's stuff is total crap but some stuff works well, simple tools that I don't use often hf is a great option.

A friend of mine has a wake boarding boat that he wanted to run a large stereo system in. We upgraded the alternator to 200 amps and installed two deep cycle batteries. Initially we thought this was enough to run everything and when driving the boat its fine but we wanted to be able to turn the boat off and just anchor while listening to music. It would drain the batteries even at low volumes. Hf had a sale going on for 5 watt panels for $19.99, we installed three on the top of his tower. We welded them to O's that bolted on to the top of the tower with rubber inlays. They run great and have been holding up well; the boat sort of takes a beating and shakes a lot just due to its natural and the panels are still holding up fine.

I don't know if I would want to use hf's solar panels to power my home but something to tuck away and store for later I bought a few and stashed them.


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## KC8UXU

I don't have any knoweledge of how good the panels are....but in my latest NRA magazine there is a coupon to buy the set for $149.00........save $100.00.....might be worth it at that price.


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## sailaway

I wound up buyingt the 3 pannel set for $169.00. I will use them for the cabin I want to build or for the bug out trailer.


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## youpock

HF has the 45watt kit on sale for $159.99 on black friday!

this one

- Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


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## sailaway

youpock said:


> HF has the 45watt kit on sale for $159.99 on black friday!
> 
> this one
> 
> - Harbor Freight Tools - Quality Tools at the Lowest Prices


That's the one I got for 10 bucks more, oh well.


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## youpock

sailaway said:


> That's the one I got for 10 bucks more, oh well.


Have you installed it yet? There are some folk on youtube that seem to be having good luck with it. Costco has deep cycle golf cart bats for $65 so $130 for batteries and $160 for panels. I have a few inverters already $300 bux for a simple dc setup. I'm thinking have it just to have some backup power other than a car or my gas gen.


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## sailaway

youpock, I haven't installed mine yet, I will probably do that next spring when the camping season starts up again. I am accumulating stuff like this for a cabin I would like to build when I find some land. sail


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## TechAdmin

We want to see it when it's finished!


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## youpock

OHhh sweet cabin, I wish I had some land that I could stock pile solar panels for, lol. Someday..


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## GetPreparedStuff

I'd like to throw in some information concerning "the harbor freight 45 watt solar panel kit" and those like it sold under different brands. Some of the info is from personal experience with a smaller HF panel and the other is from what I've read and will share so you can draw your own conclusions.

I've had some misgivings about these 45 watt kits after I had purchased a small Harbor Freight 5 watt panel a number of years ago which is made of the same solar cell material as the larger 15 watt HF panels and when I bring it out to test, I've noticed that it just hasn't performed very well compared to other 5 watt panels I am evaluating. The output having actually decreased over the time I've owned it. I don't have anymore data other than that observation but it's left me with a knot in my gut every time someone has asked me about the 45 watt HF panel kits.

Every so often I'd look for experiences on the net from people that have actually bought and put in to use the HF panels but they have been very few and only initial reports, no long term data.

However, in my hunt to find meaningful data that would support my gut suspicions, I came across this review:Amazon.com: M. Anderson's review of Sunforce 50044 60-Watt Solar Charging Kit

That led me to the report it mentions: http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/aSiKenya_FinalReport_July2_05.pdf or http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/JacobsonKammen_aSi_Kenya_EP07.pdf

In the report it shows some pictures of the panels with problems. They look similar/identical to me to the Harbor Freight panels which also are manufactured as I understand in Shenzhen China by the Topray Solar Company. By that association I could conclude that the panel design after almost 5 years hasn't changed much and any current and similar panels could be subject to the same failure rate as the study reported which was that of two sets of panels under different brand names but manufactured by the same company, 3 of 4 panels for one brand failed completely during the first few months of testing and 1 of 4 failed with the other brand. In addition the test showed that all panels from both brands showed a large decrease in their power output of over 50% in the short time they were in service. Meaning that after only a few months in the sun the panels were only supplying 6 watts of power from panels that were rated at 14 watts. (Note: the HF panels say 15 watts but under load their actual initial output is 12 watts or less) This 50% decrease in output would support what I've seen with my own HF 5 watt panel which is made of the very same solar cell materials as the larger set of 45 watt panels.

The Topray Solar Company also makes similar panels for Sunforce in 60 watt configurations which are sold by a number of different stores and shop such as Amazon, CostCo and Northern Tool. Sunforce support and warranty service are a whole other topic for discussion.

The solar cell material in question is fairly easy to identify compared to other solar panels. The panels are made of an amorphous A-SI type solar cell material also known as thin-film. Please note that not all thin-film solar panels have the same problem as the Harbor Freight or similar panels but the panels made by the same manufacture maybe suspect. The solar cells in question have very long thin lines down the length of the panels about 3/8 inch apart like in Figure 2 or Fig 6 of the Humbolt test results docs linked above.


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## sailaway

Thanks GetPreparedStuff, I haven't tried mine yet, but was wondering about quality over time. I have also seen Sunsource at TSC and wondered about them. Same mfg.,same problem. I'm still working on land for cabin.


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## NaeKid

GetPreparedStuff said:


> The Topray Solar Company also makes similar panels for Sunforce in 60 watt configurations which are sold by a number of different stores and shop such as Amazon, CostCo and Northern Tool. Sunforce support and warranty service are a whole other topic for discussion.
> 
> The solar cell material in question is fairly easy to identify compared to other solar panels. The panels are made of an amorphous A-SI type solar cell material also known as thin-film. Please note that not all thin-film solar panels have the same problem as the Harbor Freight or similar panels but the panels made by the same manufacture maybe suspect. The solar cells in question have very long thin lines down the length of the panels about 3/8 inch apart like in Figure 2 or Fig 6 of the Humbolt test results docs linked above.


Here we have a PrincessAuto (kind of like HarborFreight) and they carry the SunForce brand of solar panels. Are you telling me that if I purchased one of the 120watt panels for my RV that in very short order it would not be able to keep my batteries on it charged properly?

I have a different brand of panel on my camper right now (80watt) and I haven't noticed any problems with it yet - but - its only been on it for a year now.


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## GetPreparedStuff

NaeKid said:


> Here we have a PrincessAuto (kind of like HarborFreight) and they carry the SunForce brand of solar panels. Are you telling me that if I purchased one of the 120watt panels for my RV that in very short order it would not be able to keep my batteries on it charged properly?
> 
> I have a different brand of panel on my camper right now (80watt) and I haven't noticed any problems with it yet - but - its only been on it for a year now.


The larger wattage SunForce brand solar panels do not share the same solar cell chemistry and manufacturer as the Harbor Freight panels. The 120 watt panels are crystalline cells (a grid like checkerboard look) which shouldn't have the same degradation problems that are seen in the HF panels. I can't vouch for seals, leakage and other issue around the aluminum frame though.

I have a beef however, with Sunforce which has been going on for almost a year now. Let's just say that if you ever need warranty service on their products, you maybe in for a battle to get them to honor or replace products with problems. Even if they do replace a product you may get one that came from an open box and doesn't work either.


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## JeepHammer

I looked at them last week while I was down there,
And for the production, they just aren't stacking up for the price per watt produced.

Plus most of them looked like factory seconds,
I found blemishes in every box we opened, and that's a big deal when you are shelling out those kinds of bucks...

Think about warranty also,
Most 'First Run' panels will out perform their rated values, and have a 20 to 40 year warranty.
Mine are about 10 years old now, and the STILL put out more than they were rated for new,
But the older ones have discolored a little...
No big deal as long as the produce!


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## tikiman

*anyone working with the harbor frt solar kit?*

Was wondering, Has anyone been working with the H.F. solar pannel kit? I am thinking of setting one up as part of a winter hydroponics kit for my greenhouse. For the price, It could also cover low level lighting etc. I understand that the stand sucks, but that can be fixed easy.

Would like to hear back from others who have first hand on this.

Thx


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## Nadja

Look, I have told uncounted people about these panels. They are Chinamart at best. If you want longevity and dependability , go with a name brand panel that is NOT made in China.


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## LincTex

This is a form devoted entirely to the HF solar panel kit:

Harbor Freight 45 Watt Solar Panel Kit Community Forum - Join the conversation about the 45 Watt Solar Panel Kit from Harbor Freight


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## tikiman

Thanks for both post. I know that the kit is not up to par, but for a temp. setup untill i can get a better one it has some promise.


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## Nadja

but, if you were to save up and buy a GOOD solar panel , then you would not be wasting your money.


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## LincTex

Even though they advertise at 45 watts, expect about 18-21 watts (6-7 per panel) in reality. 

Maybe not at first, but they seem to degrade in output quickly.


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## Halfcrazy

Take it from a professional in the renewable energy industry do your self a favor and buy a decent panel something in the 200 watt range is usually the best deal per watt. I will also add if you are a glutton for punishment you can build your own wind turbine:2thumb:


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## goshengirl

Halfcrazy, could you start a new thread showing how you did that? I'd love to know, and I'm sure a lot of others would, too. :2thumb:


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## Halfcrazy

goshengirl said:


> Halfcrazy, could you start a new thread showing how you did that? I'd love to know, and I'm sure a lot of others would, too. :2thumb:


The Ice mother nature did. The turbine I built based on data gleened from Welcome to OTHERPOWER.COM


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## LincTex

Halfcrazy said:


> The turbine I built based on data gleened from Welcome to OTHERPOWER.COM


It is called an "Axial Flux" wind turbine, and is based on the designs from Scotsman Hugh Piggot. You can buy Mr. Piggots books from the OTHERPOWER website. Very informative.

If you want to build one, buy the magnets NOW!!!!!! They are rare earth magnets (Neodymium) and the prices of them have been SKYROCKETING lately. I wanted to build the 20 foot diameter version, but I think the magnets alone are now over $1000 .... for just the magnets!!

I have 24 of the 2x1x.5 magnets already for the 10' version.


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## tikiman

lots of great info ... sounds like it's better to pass and save the $$$


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## LincTex

I have a couple sets of these panels.... they are not being used for "serious" power generation. I needed power in various locations, so I separated the panels so I can get three physical locations per kit. I am not using any of the other components in the kit except the light bulbs.

After I sell off the components I do not need on ebay, the net price does come down a lot. I have not monitored actual output of the panels in full daylight. They are in remote locations, and as long as they charge the battery that they are stationed with, all is good.


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## Jimmy24

Oops...

Guess I'm the only person using the HF panels and have had them for about 3 yrs. Have 2 sets. 30 amp regulator. I have 4-12v deep cyccle marine batteries. (6v golf cart batt one day!!)

2 inverters. Both 410 watt Schumacher.

About 5.5 amps in full sun. Same as day I hooked them up.

This is in my retreat cabin. Use it for lights (mostly LED and a couple of CFLs), small tv, small radio and my laptop. Also use it to charge my 18v tool batteries.

Has not given me any issues. I would love to step up to better panels, but guess that will have to wait. Least I'm doing something and getting some good experince and practice I guess.

Jimmy


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## tikiman

Jimmy24 said:


> Oops...
> 
> Guess I'm the only person using the HF panels and have had them for about 3 yrs. Have 2 sets. 30 amp regulator. I have 4-12v deep cyccle marine batteries. (6v golf cart batt one day!!)
> 
> 2 inverters. Both 410 watt Schumacher.
> 
> About 5.5 amps in full sun. Same as day I hooked them up.
> 
> This is in my retreat cabin. Use it for lights (mostly LED and a couple of CFLs), small tv, small radio and my laptop. Also use it to charge my 18v tool batteries.
> 
> Has not given me any issues. I would love to step up to better panels, but guess that will have to wait. Least I'm doing something and getting some good experince and practice I guess.
> 
> Jimmy


Was kinda the same as what I was thinking. Lost most of my stuff in a big summer fire several years ago, and i'm slowly getting back into prepping. lots to do but with everything going on these days, need to spread the money around.


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## Meerkat

Halfcrazy said:


> Take it from a professional in the renewable energy industry do your self a favor and buy a decent panel something in the 200 watt range is usually the best deal per watt. I will also add if you are a glutton for punishment you can build your own wind turbine:2thumb:


LOL,that windmill thing was funny.


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## Meerkat

tikiman said:


> Was kinda the same as what I was thinking. Lost most of my stuff in a big summer fire several years ago, and i'm slowly getting back into prepping. lots to do but with everything going on these days, need to spread the money around.


Bless your heart!I'm so sorry you lost all that stuff.if the storms or fires get what little we have,don't know if I could do all this over.:kiss:


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## LincTex

Jimmy24 said:


> Guess I'm the only person using the HF panels and have had them for about 3 yrs. Have 2 sets.
> 
> About 5.5 amps in full sun. Same as day I hooked them up.


14.5 volts x 5.5 amps = 80 watts. Not bad at all for the two sets combined!!


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## JustCliff

I have 4 sets that I have not managed to put up yet. I really need to work on that....


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## Jimmy24

LincTex said:


> 14.5 volts x 5.5 amps = 80 watts. Not bad at all for the two sets combined!!


Actually 13.9 volts. I have wondered why it has done as well as it has. Most folks are not very positive about them.

I have added 2 single 15 watt panels. It boosted on good days to nearly 7 amps!!! (6.75) Voltage has remained the same.

At some point I'm going to upgrade to better panels and battieres, but to learn and experiment now, they are affordable.

Jimmy


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## dcjosh

I just set mine up recently and I am very pleased with it so far. I learned a lot about the basics of electricity and what is needed to make this whole process complete. I have also posted this up on my blog, www.metro-survival.blogspot.com, so check it out. With out further delay...

My Solar Shed:































































Check out my blog for the captions. Enjoy.

-DC Josh


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## SoundWisdom

*Save yourself some headace and money*

Those Harbor Freight panels cost a lot of money per watt, and then you're still laying out money for an inverter and batteries and controllers...you'll pay for your education, and then you'll do it right, and pay for it all again, though you'll get more bang for your buck the second time around.

Sound Wisdom has a 5,000 watt solar power system that's turnkey, plug and play, and can be expanded with extra panels and batteries, even from other companies, to the point that it takes your whole house off the grid.

They're at Sound-Wisdom.com.

The people there are also willing to spend time educating you; they know their product is the best product at the best price, so they have no fear of telling you all there is to know about solar. They even offer 220v systems for running stoves, well pumps, dryers, that sort of thing, and they don't break your bank in the process.


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## The_Blob

SoundWisdom said:


> Those Harbor Freight panels cost a lot of money per watt, and then you're still laying out money for an inverter and batteries and controllers...you'll pay for your education, and then you'll do it right, and pay for it all again, though you'll get more bang for your buck the second time around.
> 
> Sound Wisdom has a 5,000 watt solar power system that's turnkey, plug and play, and can be expanded with extra panels and batteries, even from other companies, to the point that it takes your whole house off the grid.
> 
> They're at Sound-Wisdom.com.
> 
> The people there are also willing to spend time educating you; they know their product is the best product at the best price, so they have no fear of telling you all there is to know about solar. They even offer 220v systems for running stoves, well pumps, dryers, that sort of thing, and they don't break your bank in the process.


is that your site?


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## dantaddei

sailaway said:


> Is anybody comfortable with Harbor Freight Equiptment? Their current sales paper has a 45watt sloar pannel kit for $169.99, $80.00 off. Would you feel comfortable buying something this technical from a company like this. I suppose it all comes from China anyways.


The best service I've found also has the best prices on all things electric 
and off the grid. 
Try Sun Electronics
(305) 381-6166
NE 15th
Miami‎ FL
United States


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## 2jbass

My husband bought several of the solar panel kits last year to test them out so we could use them on our retreat. They worked superbly! I had my doubts initially and wasn't keen on him buying them, but after setting it up, charging the deep cell battery (purchased separately), and using it to power up to run the water pump, charged cell phones, and watched tv for a while....I was impressed! Look for coupons and you might be able to get the kit cheaper! HF usually sells the solar panel kit throughout the year at a greatly reduced cost and with a coupon, it's even better! go for it and I'm sure you'll enjoy having the extra power. We do!


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## froggymountain

try a quality grade panel from

Solar Panels, PV Systems and Inverters Distributor


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## GetPreparedStuff

If you do choose to go with this harbor freight kit understand that it's cheap for a reason. The panels do work, the big question is how long will they work under constant use. Most crystalline panels have a 15-20+ year warranty on the power output which should be no less than 20% of their initial output after 20 years. HF has a 90 day warranty.

The bigger issue in my mind isn't necessarily the panels but with the charge controller that comes with the HF kit that connects the solar panels to the battery.

The controller that comes in the kit will not do an adequate job of protecting your batteries from being over or under charged especially when temperature conditions are factored in.

The better solar charge controllers all have a temperature compensation function which will increase the battery charge voltage in cold temperatures so the battery isn't under charged in cold temps and will also reduce the charge voltage in hot temperatures to prevent the over charging of your battery bank.

Both of these conditions if not taken care of will quickly decrease the capacity or ruin your batteries. The HF charge controller does not have temperature compensation functionality and I would not trust it for long term use on my batteries.

Even an inexpensive charge controller like the Morningstar SunGuard charge controller will protect your battery better than the controller in the kit and can easily be used to replace it.

I understand how the price of the HF kit has enticed many people but with the cost of solar panels dropping it isn't the value it once was.

You can buy single 40 watt crystalline solar panels that are a third the size of the combined size of the three HF panels for under $60 each. Note: if you buy more than one of the 40 watt panels you will need a bigger charge controller than the SunGuard which only handles up to 75 watts of solar panels. The next size up is the Morningstar Sunsaver 6 which can handle up to 100 watts of solar panels.

You can also replace the CFL lights from the HF kit with 12v LED lights which will last much longer and use even less electricity.


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## AzDesertRatMarine

*Yup, what he said...*

+1 on everything that G.P.S. said above.

I currently live off the grid - have been for a couple years now. That said, I started out on my ranch living in my camper and bought 2 sets of the H/F solar kits. I set up one to charge the deep cycle battery (1) for the camper, and the other set charged an odd assortment of old car batteries, that was hooked to an inverter to charge my cordless tool batteries.

Now that we have gone down memory lane, lessons learned;

1. whatever you are expecting to work right - WONT! The first solar kit I bought had a bad charge control unit. I did get it exchanged with a small ammount of gruff from the manager.
2. cut in half whateverr electricity you are planing to use! Odds are ya' don't need it anyway!
3. because I don't think ya' need it don't mean that the young city-fied gal I started dating will be able to power her hair dryer or curling iron (True Story that one! Heard about it for months...)
4. true out-doors skills can be learned from reading, but expect to have to un-learn them and re-learn them as needs be. Things I swore I'd never do this way or that, now seems to be the best way!

All in all, the 2 H/F solar kits I bought some years back are still running, hooked up to power lights in two differnt out buildings. IF you can catch them on sale, and you have LOW power requirements, they will function fine. As a side note, I spent the first year listening to free downloaded audiobooks on my MP3 player every night for entertainment - love those clasics! (librivox.org)


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## gypsysue

We have two different sets of friends who ordered the HF solar panel package and used them for camping. For just the occasional use while camping they seemed to work out great. Having lived off-grid full-time for almost 9 years, I'd recommend "real" panels of better quality for something you intend to use as a way of life. It's pretty easy to assemble your own solar power set-up buying the pieces (panels, inverter, charge controler, etc.) and putting it together yourself.


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## trkarl

You might want to consider a kit to start with like this one for $429.00

http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Pane...olar-Panels-&-Sunsaver-MPPT/product_info.html

Consists of 2 80 watt panels and a Morningstar Sunsaver mppt charge controller. I feel it is much better quality equipment to start with.
YMMV


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## Nadja

Oh how easy it is to read the adds and look at all the garbage they spout off about. Gypsy Sue is very correct on this matter. IF you only want a tiny little system to play with then go for it. But that is all you will get. You will not run most of the things they say you can run for more then a couple of minutes.

Look at solar this way, your batteries are your checking account, what you put in you can use for the most part. Your solar panels are your job/paycheck.

If you consider these systems at about 45 watts (all things being perfect) then take a look at the average light bulb at about 50 watts, that should tell you something. Now, you will build up some amps not watts in your battery to use for awhile, but one or two batteries are not going to do much and certainly not for very long. Now your inverter depending on the model also requires some of your stored amps to just work. Factor that in and you maybe get a couple or three hours on a conventional light bulb. Charge controllers are also a biggee here. Go with the xantrax or outback if you want long lasting quality and stay away from the el cheapos as they will not allow you to grow your system. Plan what you want or where you want to end up with on your solar system. Much better choice

Look this site over and it may help you decide on where you want to be

http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/solar_panels.htm


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## LincTex

The 12 volt CFL's that come with the HF kits only draw .6 amps each. They are actually pretty decent. The charge controllers that come with - I always just sold them on ebay.


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## Viking

I have been using mono crystalline solar panels on our motorhome from AM Solar out of Eugene, Oregon. They have changed some of their panels since I bought mine but they are still using the mono crystalline panels. AM Solars website has educational info on their site. The panels I have are tempered glass with aluminum frames and have a great mounting system. The mono crystalline panels are more efficient than other types and due to design are more compact than other types, they also put out more voltage which is a big factor on overcast days were they still can put out enough power to charge batteries. I am going to us their panels for a stand by system on our home but will go to a 24 or 36 volt system and use a pure sine wave stacked inverter system by Magnum, 4000 watt for 24 volt and 4400 watt for 36 volt. Two stacked inverters will product 8000 or 8800 watts. These inverters also put out 120/240 VAC without stacking. I'm designing my solar system to replace grid power but the same solar panels, solar controllers and a smaller pure sine wave inverter could be used on cabins or homes that don't require 240 VAC and heavier wattage needs. Our motorhome system has four 100 watt solar panels, a 30 amp solar controller connected to four series/parallel 6 volt 225 AH golf cart batteries, these batteries supply power to a Xantrex RS 2000 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter. We have spent six weeks out on the desert in Northern Nevada and only had to start the engine once to charge the batteries on a cloudy day. This system could supply power to our home in a pinch, running refrigerators, TV and some lights on a limited basis, it would be a great system for a small cabin. The price has gone down on AM's panel since we bought ours and it's considerably more expensive than Harbor Freight but then it is of the best quality for the money.


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## AzDesertRatMarine

A thought just occured to me (so take note since it won't happen again for who knows how long), just how many amps are all of you solar nuts using? 

When I was using my HF solar I was only using one or two RV lights after dark (1.5 amp each), and occasionally (every other day or so) charging my cell phone, mp3 player, and or notebook confuser. 

Granted, I live in the high-desert of Arizona and have a surplus of sunshine - however, I had one HF kit attached to three batteries and never had them run low. 

Maybe what NADJA said is the best description, your solar and/or wind input is your incoming power, your batteries are your bank account, and you just need to ballance your budget! (Think we can we teach Obama this? The "ballance your budget" part - we all know his score on SOALR!)


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## Nadja

ArizonaDesertRatMarine. I don't think so. They (dumbacraps) seem to live in a fantasy land !


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## Viking

Don't you just love it when politicians who are dumber than a barn door come up with a grand idea of just installing solar systems on everything and while you're watching them preach just how great it would be the weather in the background is foggy or cloudy and it's frequently that way where they want solar. On the other hand where we live we have a great deal of sunny days and it's great for solar power. That's the thing about about S.W. Oregon, just south of where we live it can get socked in with fog for many days but when you break over the mountain pass into our valley it's sunny. Were we go out on the desert in N. Nevada a lot of the ranches and farms have solar panels and wind generators. The wind is always blowing out there, sometimes more than is comfortable. A lot of those places are way away from power grids. Where we live there's not enough wind to make a wind generator practical.


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## Viking

AzDesertRatMarine said:


> A thought just occured to me (so take note since it won't happen again for who knows how long), just how many amps are all of you solar nuts using?


 I don't know if I'd consider myself a solar nut (so far), but I never wanted to "accidentally" short out the 12 VDC 450 amp hours that the four golf cart batteries were capable of, but with the system we use on the motorhome on a daily basis out on the desert we could make two pots of coffee, watch TV news out of Reno plus a DVD movie (up to four hours of TV time) and use incandescent and fluorescent lighting. If I had to I could pull the system off the motorhome and use it on our home but it wouldn't be enough for the freezer and refrigerators. The refrigerator in the motorhome is a three way and on propane it was very efficient, 120 VAC or 12 VDC would have shortened the run time off the batteries by a great deal.


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## dragon5126

GetPreparedStuff said:


> I'd like to throw in some information concerning "the harbor freight 45 watt solar panel kit" and those like it sold under different brands. Some of the info is from personal experience with a smaller HF panel and the other is from what I've read and will share so you can draw your own conclusions.
> 
> I've had some misgivings about these 45 watt kits after I had purchased a small Harbor Freight 5 watt panel a number of years ago which is made of the same solar cell material as the larger 15 watt HF panels and when I bring it out to test, I've noticed that it just hasn't performed very well compared to other 5 watt panels I am evaluating. The output having actually decreased over the time I've owned it. I don't have anymore data other than that observation but it's left me with a knot in my gut every time someone has asked me about the 45 watt HF panel kits.
> 
> Every so often I'd look for experiences on the net from people that have actually bought and put in to use the HF panels but they have been very few and only initial reports, no long term data.
> 
> However, in my hunt to find meaningful data that would support my gut suspicions, I came across this review:Amazon.com: M. Anderson's review of Sunforce 50044 60-Watt Solar Charging Kit
> 
> That led me to the report it mentions: http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/aSiKenya_FinalReport_July2_05.pdf or http://www.humboldt.edu/~aej1/JacobsonKammen_aSi_Kenya_EP07.pdf
> 
> In the report it shows some pictures of the panels with problems. They look similar/identical to me to the Harbor Freight panels which also are manufactured as I understand in Shenzhen China by the Topray Solar Company. By that association I could conclude that the panel design after almost 5 years hasn't changed much and any current and similar panels could be subject to the same failure rate as the study reported which was that of two sets of panels under different brand names but manufactured by the same company, 3 of 4 panels for one brand failed completely during the first few months of testing and 1 of 4 failed with the other brand. In addition the test showed that all panels from both brands showed a large decrease in their power output of over 50% in the short time they were in service. Meaning that after only a few months in the sun the panels were only supplying 6 watts of power from panels that were rated at 14 watts. (Note: the HF panels say 15 watts but under load their actual initial output is 12 watts or less) This 50% decrease in output would support what I've seen with my own HF 5 watt panel which is made of the very same solar cell materials as the larger set of 45 watt panels.
> 
> The Topray Solar Company also makes similar panels for Sunforce in 60 watt configurations which are sold by a number of different stores and shop such as Amazon, CostCo and Northern Tool. Sunforce support and warranty service are a whole other topic for discussion.
> 
> The solar cell material in question is fairly easy to identify compared to other solar panels. The panels are made of an amorphous A-SI type solar cell material also known as thin-film. Please note that not all thin-film solar panels have the same problem as the Harbor Freight or similar panels but the panels made by the same manufacture maybe suspect. The solar cells in question have very long thin lines down the length of the panels about 3/8 inch apart like in Figure 2 or Fig 6 of the Humbolt test results docs linked above.


I normally dont quote a big posts entire contents but this is relative.

MOST panels do drop in efficency after Xnumber of hours in the sun, but the MFGs wont admit to it, Always look at them as being 1/3 to 1/2 lower in output than rated... ALWAYS. that means add an additional panel to this particular HF kit to consider it a true 45 watt panel... additional panels are available. Also buy their upgraded controller and set it on the side, the one that comes with the kit has been known to have issues, if you do a web seach you will learn about the controller problem, ANd will also find that the panel kit is favorably reviewed. NOW they also recently added a BETTER kit that you can check out... I'd give you the numbers for it , but domestic tranquility in the household here is still disrupted, as the frau threw out the flier that had the info on the better panels (a full lineof them) in it...


----------



## dragon5126

Not here to bad mouth H F or thread Hijack... so Please check this out...

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/harbor-freight-political-problems-9584/


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## dragon5126

SoundWisdom said:


> Those Harbor Freight panels cost a lot of money per watt, and then you're still laying out money for an inverter and batteries and controllers...you'll pay for your education, and then you'll do it right, and pay for it all again, though you'll get more bang for your buck the second time around.
> 
> Sound Wisdom has a 5,000 watt solar power system that's turnkey, plug and play, and can be expanded with extra panels and batteries, even from other companies, to the point that it takes your whole house off the grid.
> 
> They're at Sound-Wisdom.com.
> 
> The people there are also willing to spend time educating you; they know their product is the best product at the best price, so they have no fear of telling you all there is to know about solar. They even offer 220v systems for running stoves, well pumps, dryers, that sort of thing, and they don't break your bank in the process.


Dont know how you figure they are expensive per watt, they are the cheapest on the market...


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## dragon5126

AS not to thread hijack, please check this out...

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/harbor-freight-political-problems-9584/


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## LincTex

dragon5126 said:


> Dont know how you figure they are expensive per watt, they are the cheapest on the market...


Not really, when you realize a "45 watt" kit from HF in reality is closer to 28-30 watts on a good day. The cool CFL bulbs inside sort-of make up for it.

HF takes a LOT of liberty with their claims on their products "ratings". For instance, Their 2 HP plunge router is nowhere near 2 HP. Same with their 14" cut-off (chop) saw. That thing has no where near the power of even a $99 Ryobi (the next step up).


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## dragon5126

Virtually any 45 watt panel kit is lucky to put out 30 watts under less than perfect conditions. the sun has to be hitting it at a perfect 9o degree agle on all axises, no cloud cover, the panel has to be spotless and cool, and the load has to be less than 10%. This is par for the course and is why Solar has never taken a solid hold anywhere in the world, not even in the arid regions. You just have to know how ratings work, and how to read and apply them. The problem is that there is no set standard on how to rate them, Companies that claim greater out put do so with lower loads or if you will, with the panels in free running mode... Just as all power systems they can not be put into a state of true regulation with out a load of at least 10% of their true output capability in place. In this instance that is simply 4 1/2 watts. The problem on this is the quality of the charge controller and the batteries being used. The controller is always the weakest link as it has to supply a varying load to the panels, and a controlled current and voltage output to the battery(s). As the lighting changes so does the panel output, as the batteries carge varies, so does the load on the controller and thus on the on the panels. More often than not the panels are blamed for the wrong controller being used. The one supplied with the kit is for low level use, not the heavier use the panels can handle, or the battery bank it's connected to. In reality the panels may be 45 watts but it should have been called a 20 watt continious duty kit .


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## Viking

dragon5126 said:


> Virtually any 45 watt panel kit is lucky to put out 30 watts under less than perfect conditions. the sun has to be hitting it at a perfect 9o degree agle on all axises, no cloud cover, the panel has to be spotless and cool, and the load has to be less than 10%. This is par for the course and is why Solar has never taken a solid hold anywhere in the world, not even in the arid regions. You just have to know how ratings work, and how to read and apply them. The problem is that there is no set standard on how to rate them, Companies that claim greater out put do so with lower loads or if you will, with the panels in free running mode... Just as all power systems they can not be put into a state of true regulation with out a load of at least 10% of their true output capability in place. In this instance that is simply 4 1/2 watts. The problem on this is the quality of the charge controller and the batteries being used. The controller is always the weakest link as it has to supply a varying load to the panels, and a controlled current and voltage output to the battery(s). As the lighting changes so does the panel output, as the batteries carge varies, so does the load on the controller and thus on the on the panels. More often than not the panels are blamed for the wrong controller being used. The one supplied with the kit is for low level use, not the heavier use the panels can handle, or the battery bank it's connected to. In reality the panels may be 45 watts but it should have been called a 20 watt continious duty kit .


What Dragon has said here is right on the mark. You had better know something about solar systems if you're going to put reliance on them for your power needs. Often systems are sold with minimum cell counts, for example, you can have a 36 cell panel that will give you 12 DC from a controller when all solar conditions are perfect. But I can tell you from experience that a 44 cell panel with a quality controller will give a solid 12 DC supply on far less than perfect conditions. You may do okay for what your needs are but don't rely on a bunch of Harbor Freight panels for anything that needs faster recovery of a large battery system. Good solar systems are not cheap, in fact if you had a continuous water source with the proper fall you could use a Pelton Wheel to run an alternator to charge batteries or if you lived in an area that had constant wind blowing there are a number of very good wind generators that can take care of battery charging. As to using solar panels you need to live in areas that have enough sun days throughout the year to make the system pay for itself. Where I live I don't have wind nor do I have a higher altitude water supply, but I do have the sun days that would supply our needs. When one starts to consider solar power you better start figuring how to live with less usage. I've run the numbers for our home and to run it at a minimum, totally off grid, I'm looking at a starting point of $15,000 and even then I have to consider cloudy days where we would need a backup generator.


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## intrepidcamper

I have the 45 watt solar kit from HF. Its decent for a small amount of backup power when there's an outage in our area. There's an interesting review of it here.


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## surviving

*Harbor Freight solar panels*

The Harbor Freight solar panels are not a good deal for the money, first reason is they are low efficiency, you can find better deals on solar on ebay and sunelec.com. Sunelec sells high efficiency panels for a little more than a buck a watt.

I have a 205 watt high efficiency panel that cost $300 that we got from sunelec.com ..... very happy with it!

Also the harbor freight panels come with a terrible solar controller, if you do buy the harbor freight panels you will need to add some blocking diodes to them. With out the blocking diodes the power from the batteries will power the panels after dark, causing a loss of power from the batteries. 
You can get the diodes on ebay for a couple of bucks.

This is not trash talking about harbor freight stuff, I own lots of harbor freight stuff including a set of 45 wattt panels. I got them from a guy who was throwing them away because the batteries did not hold a charge over night. I told him about the diode thing and he said he was done with them and gave them to me . MY son Jesse added the blocking diodes and they work well enough, but they are not a good value compared to what is available on ebay and sunelec.com.

Peace 
Dan
survivingsurvivalism.com


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## lucaspm98

I am planning to buy the HF panels:
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-68751.html
this battery:
http://www.amazon.com/26-SEALED-VOL...42674&sr=8-1&keywords=26ah+deep+cycle+battery
and this inverter:
http://www.harborfreight.com/750-wa...eak-power-inverter-66817.html#pr-header-66817
Will this work? Do I need anything else? I am new to solar power and will just use these relatively inexpensive things to try solar power.


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## LincTex

lucaspm98 said:


> this battery:
> http://www.amazon.com/26-SEALED-VOL...42674&sr=8-1&keywords=26ah+deep+cycle+battery
> .


You'll need about a dozen of those batteries.... and WHY sealed? The ones you add water to last waaaaay longer. Use golf cart batteries.


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## lucaspm98

LincTex said:


> You'll need about a dozen of those batteries.... and WHY sealed? The ones you add water to last waaaaay longer. Use golf cart batteries.


thanks, i'll do some more research.


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## MrDean

Another very important lession, "You get what you pay for" and only someone with a lot of money can afford to buy cheap stuff, ie no big deal to frequently replace it or no big deal to completely replace it for something that works.

You can buy hi quality solar panels for between $2.00 and $3.00 per watt.

When we built our place out here, every step was built as good as could be. Took a lot longer because of a shortage of funds. We have never had the slightest problem with any of our infrastructure be it Power, Water, Sewer or heat. Doing something right the first time is a lot less expensive in the long run.


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## machinist

Amen to what MrDean said! :beercheer:

I've had it proved to me too many times.


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## MrDean

machinist said:


> Amen to what MrDean said! :beercheer:
> 
> I've had it proved to me too many times.


Thanks.

Here is what I just wrote in another thread re 45 watt panels.

Originally Posted by purity

Hey smart people, so i know nothing about solar stuff, so i do want to run my 52" panasonic lcd tv or my 20 cf fridge, i went to harbor tools but the kind of answer i was getting from this guy made me nervous and i did not buy solar panels from them. If i bought 2 45 watts panels, is that enough? What else do I need to get the ball rolling and screw my public elec company, feel free to email me reply if you don't mind ([email protected]) thanks, tom

Guys, be careful. There are several types of inverters. You need to find out if it is a true sine wave inverter or square wave inverter when converting from DC battery voltage to AC 120 voltage. DC= Direct current, AC= Alternating current. Any device with a transformer as in all wireless tool battery chargers, TV's, refrigerators etc require a true sine wave inverter. Overheating and a serious loss of efficency which results in a greatly shortened device life result with the wrong inverter.

As you can imagine, a true sine wave inverter is more expensive, going on the cheap is a LOT more expensive in the long run.

That Harbor Freight jun......er...ah....stuff won't run your LCD TV or 20 CF fridge and if so, only for a very short while.


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## MrDean

Here is a picture of our current set up.




























What you see is a battery bank consisting of 24 2VDC L16 size batteries in series that gives 48 VDC, that goes into a 5548 Xantrax 5500 watt continous Sine wave inverter that has a surge capability of 9,000-10,000 Watts at 120 Volts AC. Our entire place runs off of a normal 120 Volts just like your house.


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## LincTex

The Harbor Freight panel design has changed.... they now appear to be a plastic frame instead of aluminum?


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## machinist

The old metal frame design was useles in my experience. It simply would not hold the panels up without falling apart. I made my own frame for 4 sets of these panels. 

Now I wish I had put the money into some worthwhile panels. These have already degraded from almost 3 amps to just about 2 amps at ~15 volts. BAD BUY.


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## Johnnyfive

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20A-PWM-Sol...579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc1fb48a3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-Watt-sol...691?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab39ef3e3

IMHO MUCH BETTER OPTIONS
Monocrystalline is the way to go.


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## LincTex

Johnnyfive said:


> MUCH BETTER OPTIONS - Monocrystalline is the way to go.


GOOD panels are down to around a dollar a watt if you look around. That makes the harbor freight kit worth no more than $45 now, IMHO.

But they still sell those kits, because people that don't know any better will still buy them.


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## Dakine

LincTex said:


> The Harbor Freight panel design has changed.... they now appear to be a plastic frame instead of aluminum?


Yes, they are a plastic frame now, pvc pipe with a couple adjustable angle support legs. I got one just to goof around with, it doesnt seem to generate much power, but I dont have huge aspirations for this setup anyway. I think I'll get a trickle charger for 12V batteries and that will be it's job! That will keep my radio's going, and I'll start looking into some options for sustainable power that are much more durable and professional after I get a couple other projects off the board...


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## LincTex

Dakine said:


> a trickle charger ... will be it's job! That will keep my radio's going...


Yep, I use a HF panel to keep a 12v deep cycle charged for both a repeater about 10 miles away, and for the radio shack


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## northernraider

Sorry to interject but I thought you chaps may be interested in something related to these imported panels from China over here in the UK.

The EU is actually trying to levi a 45% inport tarriff in Chinese made PV panels because " The European Manufacturers are objecting to China dumping HIGH quality panels onto the EU at prices that cannot be competed against" I have have 3 of these 80 watt panels that put out 18 volts each and I and my associates love them. These are the ones that come in an aluminium frame , monocrystaline panels.

I suspect China is dumping high quality panels onto the worlds market in order to try and dominate it, so its may be worth while grabbing em whilst they are cheap and before they get banned.


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## LincTex

northernraider said:


> 80 watt....These are the ones that come in an aluminium frame , monocrystalline panels.


Those are far higher quality than the Harbor Freight panels. HF panels are "amorphous silicon", which is a coating of one color (no patterns or grain) with a dark red, almost black look to it. They used to be an OK deal but are not anymore; HF needs to adjust their price down to about $89 USD to compare anymore.

The really nice monocrystalline panels I bought came from Solar Blvd http://www.solarblvd.com/ and their "Solar Cynergy" brand. $116 USD for 80 watt monocrystalline, you can NOT beat that! http://www.solarblvd.com/p1331/Solar-Cynergy-80-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panel/product_info.html
It amazes me how far prices have fallen.



northernraider said:


> I suspect China is dumping high quality panels onto the worlds market in order to try and dominate it,


This could be said of nearly any product exported by China!


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## Woody

What about two 100 watt panels for $256? That brings the price per watt from $1.45 to $1.28.

Or is it the size you like about the 80 watt panels?

100 watt: 25#, 45" x 25"
80 watt: 20#, 34" x 26.5"

http://www.solarblvd.com/Solar-Panels-&-Systems-Individual-Solar-Panels-100---170-Watt-(8)/c1_25_42/p2716/Two-Solar-Cynergy-100-Watt-12-Volt-Solar-Panels-with-Y-Connector/product_info.html


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## cowboyhermit

That pair of 100 watt panels looks good to me
IMO, under $1.50/watt for a smaller than "full size" panel is a great deal, as long as it is decent quality like those posted. $/Watt should be the first priority, size is not all that important in most applications. Personally I much prefer junction boxes to the standard connectors so if a panel has one that is a big plus to me.


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## LincTex

Woody said:


> What about two 100 watt panels for $256? That brings the price per watt from $1.45 to $1.28.


That is awesome, I overlooked that special. Maybe next paycheck! 
Hmmm...I could also sell some stock after the first of July.


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## BlueShoe

Am I looking at it wrong or did panels come down from $400 and $500 to a couple hundred dollars now?! If those are the going rates on good panels, it's time to buy some. I could make myself buy about 10 this year.

What are better voltages and wattages to buy? 12V or 24V? 100Wish or 200W+? What are good quality names? Sharp? Kyocera?


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## cowboyhermit

tenOC said:


> Am I looking at it wrong or did panels come down from $400 and $500 to a couple hundred dollars now?! If those are the going rates on good panels, it's time to buy some. I could make myself buy about 10 this year.
> 
> What are better voltages and wattages to buy? 12V or 24V? 100Wish or 200W+? What are good quality names? Sharp? Kyocera?


That's right, $1.50/watt and under for a smallish panel
Personally I much prefer to stick with everything 12V for ubiquity of parts alone. If you plan on large draw systems and/or very long cables higher voltage may pay but I would avoid if practical.
Size doesn't really matter, generally the bigger panels are cheaper/watt, just get one with a solid frame and you will be fine. Most brands are pretty much a wash in the standard size panels, they have almost become a commodity imo.
I am not a fan of the connectors so a junction box is a plus for me but many are fine with the standard ends (I cut them off)


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## Viking

If your weather is anything like where we live it's best to have high cell count panels as they give higher voltage on cloudy days. The panels I have on our motorhome are 44 cell with a total load voltage of over 21 volts DC so even on cloudy or hazy days they put out over the minumum charge voltage needed to bring the house batteries up to full charge for next days useage. Thing is with higher output panels a Multi Point Power Tracking solar controller is needed to bring the higher voltages down to whatever battery voltage you want. The MPPT controller we bought for our back up system for our home can take up to 150 volts DC and with DIP switches I can select 12, 24, 36 or 48 volts DC for whatever battery system voltage I want. I have a MPPT controller in our motorhome that has provided great recharge rates even on not so good of a solar day. I installed a 15 watt panel on the motorhome shed to keep the batteries topped but since it has a total output of only 15 volts in full sun it's not as reliable it keeping the batteries topped in the lesser solar days of winter and I end up having to use the charger from the inverter to keep them at safe charge levels to keep the batteries from freezing.


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## zimmy

*solar modules*

Don't think you will get any cheaper than this.

http://www.solarsystems-usa.net/solar-panels/perlight-solar/plm-280p-72/#.UcbTTpzrSQ4


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## helicopter5472

Viking said:


> If your weather is anything like where we live it's best to have high cell count panels as they give higher voltage on cloudy days. The panels I have on our motorhome are 44 cell with a total load voltage of over 21 volts DC so even on cloudy or hazy days they put out over the minumum charge voltage needed to bring the house batteries up to full charge for next days useage. Thing is with higher output panels a Multi Point Power Tracking solar controller is needed to bring the higher voltages down to whatever battery voltage you want. The MPPT controller we bought for our back up system for our home can take up to 150 volts DC and with DIP switches I can select 12, 24, 36 or 48 volts DC for whatever battery system voltage I want. I have a MPPT controller in our motorhome that has provided great recharge rates even on not so good of a solar day. I installed a 15 watt panel on the motorhome shed to keep the batteries topped but since it has a total output of only 15 volts in full sun it's not as reliable it keeping the batteries topped in the lesser solar days of winter and I end up having to use the charger from the inverter to keep them at safe charge levels to keep the batteries from freezing.


Sounds like a good set up in the motorhome, I have an older one, (96) and planning on upgrading the one that's on it, also planning on upgrading the inverter. It sometimes gets -20 to-30 here in Maine plus add wind chill, I have 12 batteries that stay out all winter in various vehicles, some are not used, ie; riding lawn mower. several have been run down enough not to be able to start, but not dead completely, none have ever frozen, It must be pretty damn cold where you live. If there is a draw on the system and kills the battery flat dead, I can see a freeze situation, but even a half charged battery shouldn't freeze.


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## LincTex

zimmy said:


> Don't think you will get any cheaper than this.
> 
> http://www.solarsystems-usa.net/solar-panels/perlight-solar/plm-280p-72/#.UcbTTpzrSQ4


That is WAY cheap. 
The 230 watt panels are the same price per watt.



helicopter5472 said:


> several have been run down enough not to be able to start, but not dead completely, none have ever frozen


40% is a pretty low state of charge.... right about 11.9v - 12volts.

http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/faq/maintenance.aspx

*Can a battery freeze?*
The only way that a battery can freeze is if it is left in a state of partial or complete discharged. As the state of charge in a battery decreases, the electrolyte becomes more like water and the freezing temperature increases. The freezing temperature of the electrolyte in a fully charged battery is -92.0*F. *At a 40% state of charge, electrolyte will freeze if the temperature reaches approximately 16.0*F*.

*What is the specific gravity of a fully charged battery?*
A hydrometer reading of 1.277 or greater indicates full charge for Trojan batteries. This value is based upon a specified temperature of 77 to 80oF. For temperature correction values, see the "Temperature" section of this FAQ.

*What are common mistakes made by lead acid battery owners?*
Undercharging: Generally caused by not allowing the charger to restore the battery to full state of charge after use. Continually operating the battery in a partial state of charge, or storing the battery in a discharged state results in the formation of lead sulfate compounds on the plates. This condition is known as sulfation. Both of these conditions reduce the battery's performance and may cause premature battery failure. Undercharging will also cause stratification.

*Overcharging*: Continuous charging causes accelerated corrosion of the positive plates, excessive water consumption, and in some cases, damaging temperatures within a lead acid battery. deep-cycle batteries should be charged after each discharge of more than 50% of the batteries rated capacity, and/or after prolonged storage of 30 days or more.

*Under-watering*: In deep-cycle, lead acid batteries water is lost during the charging process. If the electrolyte level drops below the tops of the plates, irreparable damage may occur. Water levels should be checked and maintained routinely.

*Can I reduce my maintenance by not gassing my batteries?*
You will reduce the frequency of watering, but will cause a condition known as stratification where the specific gravity of the electrolyte is light at the top of the battery and heavy at the bottom. This condition results in poor performance and reduced battery life.


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## helicopter5472

LINCTEX, Oh, I have seen several frozen batteries, they were older ones that had a lot of distilled water replacement and left discharged outside. I was just saying in your motorhome, if you left your batteries charged before winter/ non use, that unless your batteries either have a draw on them, or are going bad, there should be no reason for them to freeze. If your small solar panel works, they should be in top condition through out the winter/non use time and shouldn't require an additional trickle charger. Most motorhomes in the last 15 or so years have a DC cutout switch for the house use, so there should be no draw on the batts. Maybe it's just me, and I'm not understanding what your saying!!!


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## cowboyhermit

I have seen my share of frozen dead batteries up here, we have a long cold winter, at least 90% of these were connected to something that shouldn't of had any draw but did. All it takes is milliamps of draw over a few months and it's had it. Simply disconnecting the batteries will prevent the vast majority of these problems, adding a little 1 watt panel should solve the rest.

That being said, while self discharge rates are really good compared to other rechargeables they can be highly variable, especially with batteries that have been in use for awhile. Good batteries should be around 5%/month but they can be a lot worse too.


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## Startingout-Blair

I really know nothing about solar, but I am inclined to out some money towards this. I have a small college fridge and a couple lights I want to run in my out building where the chicken coop is. Would two 12v marine batteries be enough to keep the fridge running and the lights as I need them? How many panels would I need to keep the 2 12v marine batteries charged enough to keep the fridge running?


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## cowboyhermit

The fridge should have the wattage on the back somewhere, refrigerators tend to have a huge range in efficiency. Two deepcycles in the 100Ah range would most likely be enough in most areas, the amount of solar will vary depending on the efficiency but I would expect you would want somewhere in the neighborhood of 250W, more is always better.


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## Startingout-Blair

cowboyhermit said:


> The fridge should have the wattage on the back somewhere, refrigerators tend to have a huge range in efficiency. Two deepcycles in the 100Ah range would most likely be enough in most areas, the amount of solar will vary depending on the efficiency but I would expect you would want somewhere in the neighborhood of 250W, more is always better.


Thanks CowboyHermit, I appreciate the input. I will check the back of the fridge next time I go out. Not getting around well the past 5 days. My back had been giving me a lot of problems and pain.


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## cowboyhermit

Part of the problem with something like a fridge is that even if you know how much power it consumes while running, that doesn't tell you how much it is running in a 24hr period I think that Kill-a-watt meters are great tools for this sort of thing, they will measure the energy use of anything you plug into them. Unfortunately that means one more thing to buy and most people won't use them that often, I would borrow you one but the shipping would be more than the meter
I think in most climates a 250W setup would power an efficient fridge but others may have experience with comparable systems in more similar climates.


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## LincTex

A small chest freezer converted to a refrigerator would use far, FAR less electricity. Dorm- or college-size fridges were never designed to be efficient, just convenient.


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## vickers

GetPreparedStuff said:


> You can also replace the CFL lights from the HF kit with 12v LED lights which will last much longer and use even less electricity.


Thanks for the links. The Goal ZERO lights... Do they plug directly into the ports on the HFT controller?

Thank you.


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## Viking

Just remember that every electric motor will have a locked rotor amperage rating and most often it's not on the appliance label. That label usually has the peak running amps of the appliance. Some motors, usually larger horsepower like 1/3 or more, have a label or a stamping of the amp ratings. The locked rotor rating is what the total amperage will be when the motor starts up, the heavier the load the motor has to start turning the greater the start amps will be. So with this in mind one has to design that into what your inverter will supply and most quality inverters will supply about twice the wattage rating. For instance my 2000 watt inverter will put out a solid 16+ amp continuous but it will supply 4000 watts roughly 33 amps for 5 seconds. For an example it could start and run one of the motor home roof air conditioners which has three motors, one on the condenser coil fan, one inside the compressor and the fan that blows the cooled air inside. I'm saying it could but I wouldn't do it because the four golf cart batteries would be drained in no time at all and we have never really needed AC even out on the desert. As to refrigerators they are somewhat the same, it's just that they don't need as powerful of a fan for the condenser and the fan that blows air around inside the refrigerator/freezer compartments are very small and very low in amps drawn. I have two refrigerators, one is rated 6.5 amps and the bigger is rated at 7.1 amps and one freezer that's rated 5 amps. For these and a little lighting for emergency solar backup power I will have 1025 amp hours from 20 golf cart batteries. This is assuming that there will be enough sun hours for recharge during power outages. Lots of things to consider concerning what you may want to run on solar but sizing the batteries, solar panels,solar panel charge controller and the inverter needed to run things properly could save you a lot of money and grief along the way.


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## vickers

*DC Accessories*

Im having trouble finding accessories that will plug into the 3V DC, 6V DC, and 9V DC ports on this Charge Controller. I know the 12V DC are the lights, but is there also anyting else that will plug into that 12V port?

Thank you.


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## LincTex

vickersja said:


> Im having trouble finding accessories that will plug into the 3V DC, 6V DC, and 9V DC ports on this Charge Controller. I know the 12V DC are the lights, but is there also anyting else that will plug into that 12V port?


Basically... Anything that goes into a lighter socket in your car will work in that 12 volt port.

3 volt, 6 volt ports... pretty obsolete now, as the almighty 5v USB port seems to dominate pretty much everything now (as far as charging cords goes). The 3 and 6 volt ports work for LED lighting that uses either 2 or 4 dry cell batteries (AAA, AA, C and D) which are 1.5 volts each.


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## vickers

LincTex said:


> 3 volt, 6 volt ports... pretty obsolete now, as the almighty 5v USB port seems to dominate pretty much everything now (as far as charging cords goes).


I guess that explains why I cant find the accessories.  Thanks.


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## LincTex

I wonder how much juice that single USB port can handle... 

If you add a "USB port hub", you can charge multiple devices from one port.


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