# Stereotyping and profiling...



## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

We aren't supposed to do it, but it's a survival skill. It doesn't necessarily have to do with race, and it's often used incorrectly, but how many times have we not been surprised by the actions of someone we've already categorized?

Sometimes it's silly. This morning I saw a scraggly European-American wearing an Andes type hat, when it wasn't that cold and I thought to myself, steer clear of that person, he's going to be an idiot and I was proven right as he demonstrated his driving. "Looks like an idiot, acts like an idiot."

Other times it's based on race and appearance. Sometimes it's demographic. 

But what I believe is:

"Politically Correct is statistically incorrect."


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

when driving I stay clear of minivans... the drivers are all *MORONS*!


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, swims, like a duck and flies like a duck ...it must be a chicken?!!! Call things as they are. Anything else is just wishful thinking.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I categorize people who wear their hats back wards as people who don't know if they're coming or going which includes probably 70% of the population.


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

The_Blob said:


> when driving I stay clear of minivans... the drivers are all *MORONS*!


Brudder, I can take offense at that, driving a minivan as I do. Biggest trouble I have is with pick'em up trucks and SUVs, then small cars. Bubbas in the first, Soccermoms in the second and the braindead college kids in the latter. ALL have tried to kill me at various times. Especially when I ride the bike. 

ANY driver can be a problem.

I learned, when working security, that 'profiling' can be a very valuable tool for identifying potential problems. It can be abused, like any technique. Still, if being approached by a young 'urban youth', a young woman and an older white guy, that 'youth' gets the most attention - simple statistics mark him as the more likely problem. But I don't ignore the other two...... The jails are full of ALL kinds of people.....


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## philjam (Dec 17, 2008)

lotsoflead said:


> I categorize people who wear their hats back wards as people who don't know if they're coming or going which includes probably 70% of the population.


Good for you. :congrat:
Think just a bit - maybe there are times when the hat *needs* to be turned around.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I caught something on one of the Little League games. One of the kids looked squared away, had his hat on right, the other had his hat askew. The interviewer asked the squared away kid why he didn't wear his hat like the others. He said: "Because my father doesn't raise morons or dorks."

I was proud of that kid and I'm not even related!:congrat:


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## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

I guess I profile or prejudge if you will.
It has served me well.

The filter or trigger is simple.

TRUST NO ONE 
Be polite and have a plan to quickly and quetly :kiss: them first.:nuts:


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

+100 unclebob!

Could not have said it better if I tried!


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

unclebob said:


> I guess I profile or prejudge if you will.
> It has served me well.
> 
> The filter or trigger is simple.
> ...


I definitely do not trust anyone. My ex-roommate screwed me out of thousands of dollars, lied, and stole my personal belongings from me all while inviting four or five people (hippies ) to live in my house without my permission. I moved out two months ago from that hellhole and now life is great and I learned my lesson! She taught me not to trust ANYONE. Ladies and gentleman, even the pretty innocent LOOKING girl is not what she appears to be. She will have YOUR cake and eat it too with a big sh**eating grin!


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I don't like profiling, but there are times it is a good thing. Watch the way they conduct themselves, listen to their response as they talk to others. You can get a pretty good idea right away. If anything makes the hair on the back of you neck stand up, walk away quickly. I use to take people at face value, believing everyone has some good in them, but not anymore. Sad very sad.


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

If you watch COPS and you've seen "Deliverance" and you remember 9/11 then you know what to avoid.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Salekdarling said:


> I definitely do not trust anyone. My ex-roommate screwed me out of thousands of dollars, lied, and stole my personal belongings from me all while inviting four or five people (hippies ) to live in my house without my permission. I moved out two months ago from that hellhole and now life is great and I learned my lesson! She taught me not to trust ANYONE. Ladies and gentleman, even the pretty innocent LOOKING girl is not what she appears to be. She will have YOUR cake and eat it too with a big sh**eating grin!


I am guessing you're a young male.

Remember, if she's easy to bed for you, she's been easy for others and when folks live together in a sexual relationship without commitment, usually one, the other or both parties are going to wind up getting screwed over. Old fashioned morality existed for a reason.

That comes down to stereotyping again, which exist for a reason.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I am guessing you're a young male.
> 
> Remember, if she's easy to bed for you, she's been easy for others and when folks live together in a sexual relationship without commitment, usually one, the other or both parties are going to wind up getting screwed over. Old fashioned morality existed for a reason.
> 
> That comes down to stereotyping again, which exist for a reason.


Actually I'm a female. She was my best friend of ten years...who turned out to be a whole different person than she led me to believe.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Salekdarling said:


> Actually I'm a female. She was my best friend of ten years...who turned out to be a whole different person than she led me to believe.


Oh, then that's so much more horrible! For a dude, not fully thinking, then he can expect something bad to happen, and his judgement is expected to be crowded and he can shrug it off, but for a friend known for years! That's so terrible, so unexpected. I'm sorry.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Oh, then that's so much more horrible! For a dude, not fully thinking, then he can expect something bad to happen, and his judgement is expected to be crowded and he can shrug it off, but for a friend known for years! That's so terrible, so unexpected. I'm sorry.


Thank you for the sentiment. It definitely was a big steel toe to the gut. Learned my lesson most definitely: Most people suck and trust no one. lol. I'm learning to put trust in people again to a point but it's not the same anymore...not like before.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Yeah, that sounds like a situation you can't be prepped for, that hits you out of the blue so hard you can't do anything.

Predators possess different levels of cunning and different looks.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I am guessing you're a young male. ...
> That comes down to stereotyping again, which exist for a reason.


So much for profiling!


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## PopPop (Sep 14, 2010)

Sterotyping and profiling may not be PC but are completely natural. This is how we choose our friends, our mates, where we live and almost all social interactions. The denial of this especially when it comes to security is the height of stupidity.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I remember a cop making a remark that "after midnight it's either 'us' or 'them,'" meaning that no one except cops or bad guys had any legitimate reason to be out on the streets after midnight. My shift ended at 2:00 AM. Did that make me a "bad guy" just 'cause I was driving on the streets after midnight?

It's not about PC. I believe we all do some "profiling" or "stereotyping" whenever we see a person, property, or vehicle. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. The problem is that we are making assumptions, often based on our on experiences, or, worse yet, on media misrepresentations. Think about why we now call ourselves "preppers" instead of "survivalists?" Isn't that because of assumptions others make based on media depictions about those who prepare? How about people who own an "assault rifle?" And let's not forget about Muslims! After all, every Muslim is a terrorist or terrorist wanna' be, right? 

To ignore obvious warning signals is fool hardy. But making snap judgements based on assumptions is also foolish.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Uh, yeah. whatever.

For normal folks, remember that politically correct is statistically incorrect. There's reasons for stereotyping and profile. So every once in a while you self label someone a threat who isn't. So what, if you're right 90% of the time it's better than being that PC individual who is proven wrong time after time. What do you get if you're wrong? Nothing, you've raised your level of caution when it wasn't needed. What if you're right? You just might save your life, or prevent harm to your children.

Some stereotypes and profiles:

When something is solid, it's solid:

100% of Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists are Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists. This isn't a criteria of being Islamic, it's a specific, self identified view. 100% of them were adult males. 100% of them have ties to groups on the watch lists. That's a strong profile.

Now here's one with a short percentage that shows a profile or stereotype doesn't have to be accurate to be worthwhile:

If a responsible person becomes a parent, he or she should seek learn about threats to children. An unknown number of male homosexual pedophiles specifically seek out positions of authority to young preadolescent males. Those positions include Scout Master, Coach, Teacher, Priest, and Youth Pastor. These men might be attached or unattached to a woman, but along with the vast majority of innocent men who for some odd reason like the company of boys, these predators exist. An extreme view might be to distrust anyone who seeks out those positions. These stereotypes exist, but are unfair to the majority of people who wish, for some odd reason, to be with other people's children but have other reasons for being there. [This can parallel adult males and females and children of either sex in any combination, but this is a frequent example.]

So operating off this low probability stereotype and profile, concerned parents either don't allow their children to be placed in isolated, vulnerable positions with adults who for some reason want to be authority figures to children or they else watch like a hawk. Some might jump in an volunteer specifically to protect children and they themselves might be be subject to the same profile. However, if people watch such people, and don't simply hand their children over as those who don't profile do, then children can be better protected. Predators seek out children with inclinations toward that sexual connection and neglectful parents, and neglectful parents don't watch their children like a hawk.

Then there's cost to benefits. Years ago, in one of the malls they had some rest areas. Some just included a ring of comfortable seats. Some had big foam play thing like a boat and a locomotive to climb on. Inevitably, the rings with the play areas had several exhausted fathers with young children while the mothers shopped. I'd stop there with the kids while my wife continued shopping. Each time I matched up children to fathers and noted others doing the same. One time I figured out one of the guys didn't have a kid with him. He was watching children play with a grin on his face, enjoying the scene. One of the fathers, possibly an off duty cop, spoke up matching kids to parent, "That's your girl and boy there, right?" A guy grunted, "Those are your three" he confirmed" to another, and so on. The man I assumed a perv got nervous. Then he turned to the man watching the kids. "You don't have any children here, so why are you watching our kids?" The man had a caught look on his face. "Get out of here." Several of us said, rising. There was another ring of seats just down the way. Did any of us care about his 'right' to watch other people's children? No. I couldn't care less. He took off.

If the man was innocent, a weird guy got pressured to leave. What sort of normal male enjoys watching other people's children for an extended period? What did we lose? Nothing.

Being wary has value.

Sidebar:

http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/swedes-shocked-by-1st-terror-attack-in-3-decades/19757279


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## booter (Jan 23, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I remember a cop making a remark that "after midnight it's either 'us' or 'them,'" meaning that no one except cops or bad guys had any legitimate reason to be out on the streets after midnight. My shift ended at 2:00 AM. Did that make me a "bad guy" just 'cause I was driving on the streets after midnight?
> 
> It's not about PC. I believe we all do some "profiling" or "stereotyping" whenever we see a person, property, or vehicle. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. The problem is that we are making assumptions, often based on our on experiences, or, worse yet, on media misrepresentations. Think about why we now call ourselves "preppers" instead of "survivalists?" Isn't that because of assumptions others make based on media depictions about those who prepare? How about people who own an "assault rifle?" And let's not forget about Muslims! After all, every Muslim is a terrorist or terrorist wanna' be, right?
> 
> To ignore obvious warning signals is fool hardy. But making snap judgements based on assumptions is also foolish.


The short answer is 'No' you're not perceived to be the 'Bad Guy' until you act out or give cause to draw attention to someone's radar. I 
used to be a Sheriff, combat troop 'patrolling outside the wire' in VietNam, and training in Martial Arts since age-6, so after a while you 
develop a heightened 'Situational Awareness' this goes beyond/but also has it's basis grounded in what you all are calling 'Stereotyping 
Profiling'. LEO's - will take note of you travelling at that time of night, whereas individuals/persons seen as loitering or out-of-place in an 
area at that time, will become an item of interest. ''Street sense has saved many-a-life don't discount your intuitions'' I've lived on both 
sides of this fence [almost forgot to mention-I worked for years as a Baptist-Christian Missionary to the Indian Himalayas] so I have got 
multiple filters to process through.

I live in a small rural area 200-plus miles from any really large urban centers, so the vehicular stereotyping/profiling I engage in involves; 
Mercedes B's, BMW's, Cadillacs, especially SUV models for any/all of these. As far as Muslims are concerned, I don't see; Norwegians, or 
Eskimoes, or Easter Island natives, declaring 'a Jihad' or blowing up their [perceived infidels] enemies as a definite way to achieve their paradise/Heaven [that's a pretty tough initiation- rite of passage for any non-believer of Islam]. If you have doubts, just read passages 
from their Holy Books-yourself, don't trust the media to feed you their edited version of the truth.

I'm not saying that every Middle Eastern person is a terrorist, but you have to wonder about this 'Religion of Peace' which; tolerates,
condones, and exports their restrictive & intolerant & invasive beliefs into America, and expects U.S.citizens to roll over for them.

''Who 'Order'ed the 'New World' it sure wasn't me! Was it one of you.''


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## mmszbi (Nov 14, 2009)

> when driving I stay clear of minivans... the drivers are all MORONS


I'm gonna take offense to this as well...for my other half. She has been driving a minivan where there is ice and snow on the roads for 7 months out of the year...for years! And without ever having been in an accident or incident that was her fault.
I would venture that your profiling attempt in this venue has been unsuccessful?

We ALL profile whether we realize it or not. The ability to be accurate in our view of others determines our security level and awareness.
A particular individual came into our families lifes several months ago, I immediately did not like him or trust him, however, my daughter was already pregnant. He is now in jail and if I get my way, it will be a life sentence. Trust your instincts, that little bell that goes off in your mind, that gut feeling, whatever it is for you....its most likely telling you something you need to know!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The main thing in this threads twists and turns has been to watch your instincts.
Today we wife son & I were in a crowded mall , There we have to tone down our fight or flight mechanisms to avoid overload, that is tiring work, don't think any of us wiil be near a mall till Stressmas is over. 
The only politically correct thing to do is to hold those in positions of politics to a MUCH higher standard, and to let the bleeding heart liberials be the first to deal with the problem they have "nutrured"
:beercheer:


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> The main thing in this threads twists and turns has been to watch your instincts.
> Today we wife son & I were in a crowded mall , There we have to tone down our fight or flight mechanisms to avoid overload, that is tiring work, don't think any of us wiil be near a mall till Stressmas is over.


I wish I could quit my job and never look at a mall ever EVER again. I'm a manager in a food court shop and dealing with these crazy sheeple and their nasty attitudes is pretty overwhelming in itself.

I lost the enjoyment of Christmas because is there absolutely no meaning behind it anymore.

P.S: I'm sorry that sent the thread off it's course but I had to expel some of my frustration.

I've learn to trust my instincts most definitely by observing the residents of Johnstown. Johnstown is one huge welfare section of PA...I won't deny that. I know where the gangs are located, where the drugs are, the prostitutes, where the high crime rates are, etc. I've seen more arrests than I thought I would before becoming a police officer.

If I have to be in downtown Johnstown for any reason, I keep on high alert. The "city" breeds crime and severe mental illness and I'm not even joking about it. 

I'm sure though that everyone else has that part of their towns as well.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

Our place has always had a huge number of vehicles around it. The main ones are a 2001 Crown Victoria, a 72' Ford 4-wheel drive, and my very dear 96' Dodge Grand Caravan. Those are kept in running order, gassed, and insured at all times. 

The old Ford v-8 will go through the Grand Canyon and part a flood coming over the doors. The Crown Vic is a police interceptor, not any better on gas than my old Suburban used too be, but can eat all of its 140 mph headed to the hospital 20 miles away. The Caravan gets 30 mpg, can haul 6 kids to football with all their gear and 4 of my dogs in crates to a vet AND hold groceries on the way back. 

I can drive, have raced dirt track, and know how to get where I need to in deep snow and "handleable" ice. I prefer to judge by actions, rather than words. A good driver is patient, attentive, defensive, and prepared. 

I taught my kids to drive on a single explanation, 
"ALL drivers on the road should be considered mutant morons trying to kill you. Make sure YOU aren't one of the mutants." 
What I drive is a preference rather than a statement of my driving skills.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

We all do profiling and stereotyping and I think we should not feel bad about it in itself. 
We should only be careful to limit it to self-preservation not harming others. 

If my intention and profiling strategy is focused on protection of myself and family, it is OK in my opinion. If it means to degrade others and harm them , or it comes from hate and the wish to inflict harm, I think we should re-examine ourselves.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

strongtower6114 said:


> Judge based on what someone chooses to do. If they choose to look like a gangbanger, they get treated by a gangbanger. They look like a scuzzball they get treated like a scuzzball. They dress nice and look respectable, they can have the benefit of the doubt.


This has not worked for me at all ... In my experience how someone looks is absolutely no indication of their moral character. Nobody gets the benefit of the doubt from me ... nobody.

I worked at a gun range for a while and had some problems with a Brazillian national who thought that just because he had money that meant he didn't have to follow the rules ... never mind that the person enforcing the rules was a woman ... He went on and on about how I was discriminating blah, blah, blah ... one of my co-workers finally laughed and told him "Dude ... she's not racist, she doesn't like anybody."

And it's true ... everybody has to prove themselves to me ... everybody.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*As a Former Officer*

As a Former L E Officer, I recommend this book for everyone , especially women, (" The Gift of Fear" , by Gavin de Becker )


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

BillM said:


> I recommend this book for everyone , especially women, (" The Gift of Fear" , by Gavin de Becker )


As a woman with her own experiences, I second that recommendation!


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