# Widespread protests in America?



## Frugal_Farmers (Dec 13, 2010)

Would love to hear what you folks feel will be the trigger point for widespread protests in America.

As we progress down the road into this financial abyss, we will see radical shifts in public opinion. Until now, we have seen where the American public has practiced "passive acceptence" when it comes to the degragation of liberties.

We predict that when state and federal government implement radical program cuts, people in the inner cities will begin to uprise. Stay tuned, but we feel this will begin very, very soon.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Internet. Same as everywhere else. Take away the freedoms we use, we will get angry.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Frugal_Farmers said:


> Would love to hear what you folks feel will be the trigger point for widespread protests in America.
> 
> As we progress down the road into this financial abyss, we will see radical shifts in public opinion. Until now, we have seen where the American public has practiced "passive acceptence" when it comes to the degragation of liberties.
> 
> We predict that when state and federal government implement radical program cuts, people in the inner cities will begin to uprise. Stay tuned, but we feel this will begin very, very soon.


 Wisc is just going after the teachers and other state workers union, not the cops or fireman which will come at a later date,right now it's devide and conquer. Just wait a couple yrs when a state like NY goes after the unions, all highway workers,troopers cops,teachers. It'll be chaos all over when it happends as they'll have a choice soon,(1)either raise taxes almost double on the people,(2) bust the unions and get their pensions and benifits in ck or (3)cut the people on social programs,welfare,food stamps,HEAP., anyone of the 3 will cause roits. I would say cutting the social programs will be the most dangerous as they have nothing to lose.


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I see on the news the big labor protests..I worked as a union welder for yrs..but if this countrys economy is as bad as I think it is..and the debt obama and the democrats are/have created is going to be laid on the next generation of children..I cant side with the unions at this time..wait til the country gets back on its feet somewhat..everyone I know has had to sacrifice something during these bad times..and if you have to pay a few bucks more for your healthcare..do it!..I do!.as far as the govt goes I see them backing us into a corner..to keep this or get that..its going to cost you something somewhere else..this administration to me is unbelieveable..Im suprised someone hasnt started a movement or something already..maybe its because they are like me..thinking in less than 2 yrs..he will hopefully be voted out of office and better days will be coming


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

azurevirus said:


> I see on the news the big labor protests..I worked as a union welder for yrs..but if this countrys economy is as bad as I think it is..and the debt obama and the democrats are/have created is going to be laid on the next generation of children..I cant side with the unions at this time..wait til the country gets back on its feet somewhat..everyone I know has had to sacrifice something during these bad times..and if you have to pay a few bucks more for your healthcare..do it!..I do!.as far as the govt goes I see them backing us into a corner..to keep this or get that..its going to cost you something somewhere else..this administration to me is unbelieveable..Im suprised someone hasnt started a movement or something already..maybe its because they are like me..thinking in less than 2 yrs..he will hopefully be voted out of office and better days will be coming


I totally agree with you ... Several years ago my husband's pension plan saw a need and increased the required employee's contributions to the plan. Only state agency here to do it on their own BEFORE lack of funds became a problem. Now the teachers' union wants to "tap" the law enforcement pension to help "stabilize" the teachers pensions ... HELL NO!! 

Last year when the Legislature was talking about furloughs my husband's department trimmed more off their budget than the Legislature asked them to (and avoided furloughs) ... all the while other state agencies were whining and pissing and moaning about how they couldn't do it ... especially the "for the children" agencies. Those agencies furloughed employees. 

At some point EVERYONE needs to take a turn in the barrel ... the private sector has been suffering for some time now. Not all public employees have that "entitlement" mentality ... problem is most of the public employee unions seem to be oblivious to what is coming down the pike.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, the way I see it, widespread protests, riots/looting, could really only come from one thing. I am talking protests and such on a national scale, not just in NYC or LA, but everywhere. And that is economic collapse. When the banks are closed and your money is no good, it wouldn't be a localized event. This would cause people to freak out in major ways, anger, fear, desperation,etc. I don't see a foriegn invasion happening, or EMP, or nukes. And if you think about it, it wouldn't only be the US that would collapse financially, many countries depend on import and export with the US, and many would go down with us! It could all start with a country in europe, remember when Greece had their problems? If they fell, it very well could have had a global dominoes effect.
The US and world economies are too fragile. The US is printing money like it is going out of style, what happens when it does...:scratch


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## philjam (Dec 17, 2008)

Already happening. Obama will piss on the fire - pull the internet plug.


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

There has been 3 protests, one turned violent this week in Seattle against police because they have killed so many unarmed people this year. There have been 2 protests in 2 days. One about the police and one about the police's dispatch system in which a citizen witnessed a person being robbed on a city bus and the dispatcher told her she couldn't report the crime because SHE wasn't the person being robbed. So no police showed up. _Using that logic, if I see a bank robbery or a house fire, I shouldn't call the police?_

Then there is Wisconsin protesting.

In Portland, OR there were protests TODAY because Odumba, I mean Obama, was in town speaking with Intel and made a 'speech' on education. Portland is always protesting something but this past 2 years it's outrageous. There has been numerous protests in which police arrived on horses in full gear and pepper spray people for protesting against corrupt police.

There was also a protest a week ago about a Redmond, OR police officer Larry Prince was stealing police guns and re-selling the parts to the police force. He was put under investigation back in December 2010 with paid leave. He was arrested last week and charged with ONLY misconduct, theft, and forgery. And since he is union, under union law he STILL is intended to be paid while in jail until he is let off the force. And people are protesting about this.

Seems like the Washington and Oregon police system is poorly run the past few years and the amount of protesting involving the police is increasing very rapidly and the protesters grow more violent.

Oh and let's see in Vancouver, Washington (5 minutes from Portland, OR) the Mayor is requiring that comments in town hall meetings by citizens "don't pertain to the meeting at all" and "should be suppressed" until the end of the meeting and WITHOUT the CCTV cameras or microphones recording.
So they've had public protests over this due to censorship.


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## Necred (Sep 26, 2010)

I dont support the union thugs, there past their usefullness and full of coruption. Much like the liberal politicians.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

There is corruption everywhere, but I've work a job or two where I was happy to have a union behind me. Heck, look what walmart was doing to people, asking them to work through lunch, clock out and continue work until they finished their task etc. I don't have an magic solution, but I think they still have a place.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

pandamonium said:


> Well, the way I see it, widespread protests, riots/looting, could really only come from one thing. I am talking protests and such on a national scale, not just in NYC or LA, but everywhere. And that is economic collapse. When the banks are closed and your money is no good, it wouldn't be a localized event. This would cause people to freak out in major ways, anger, fear, desperation,etc. I don't see a foriegn invasion happening, or EMP, or nukes. And if you think about it, it wouldn't only be the US that would collapse financially, many countries depend on import and export with the US, and many would go down with us! It could all start with a country in europe, remember when Greece had their problems? If they fell, it very well could have had a global dominoes effect.
> The US and world economies are too fragile. The US is printing money like it is going out of style, what happens when it does...:scratch


I believe you are right. We may have riots in different places for different reason, but for a nation wide riot, it will take an economic crisis and that I fear is coming.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I agree with you*



pandamonium said:


> Well, the way I see it, widespread protests, riots/looting, could really only come from one thing. I am talking protests and such on a national scale, not just in NYC or LA, but everywhere. And that is economic collapse. When the banks are closed and your money is no good, it wouldn't be a localized event. This would cause people to freak out in major ways, anger, fear, desperation,etc. I don't see a foriegn invasion happening, or EMP, or nukes. And if you think about it, it wouldn't only be the US that would collapse financially, many countries depend on import and export with the US, and many would go down with us! It could all start with a country in europe, remember when Greece had their problems? If they fell, it very well could have had a global dominoes effect.
> The US and world economies are too fragile. The US is printing money like it is going out of style, what happens when it does...:scratch


Hyperinflation is going to be the trigger!


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## TwoHoot (Feb 17, 2011)

Government programs won't be funded because the money is gone.
Pensions agreements won't be honored because the money is gone.
Medicaid promises won't be kept because the money is gone.
Medicare won't cover health expenses because the money is gone.
Social Security won't provide enough to survive because the money is gone.
ObamaCare is a silly pipe dream because the money is gone.
Government services right down to the local neighborhood will be cut because the money is gone.

So things will get ugly when reality intrudes on fantasy and people realize the money is gone. No amount of protest, no amount of political activism, no vote, no riot, no nothing will bring it back. It is gone, gone, gone. When that sinks in, things turn ugly.

Where did the money go? It went to corrupt politicians and international bankers. They looted the nation and they are gone - with the money. That is the way socialism always ends.

The sad thing is that when reality hits, people will not be able to touch those who are guilty. In frustration, they will sh it in their own nest and attack their neighbors. That is the way socialism always ends. It is already happening.

Cordially,
TwoHoot


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

BillM said:


> Hyperinflation is going to be the trigger!


Exactly, let 'em keep on printing and devaluing the dollar! Can they really be so :nuts:? Or is it all part of the plan...? Now where the heck did I put my tin-foil hat??:dunno:


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wiss has had mass protests for the last week. Union vs. Tea party folks are showing up in force. Try finding out about it on the 6 o'clock news.


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## SaskDame (Aug 27, 2010)

Ideologies clash in Wisconsin 
Ideologies clash in Wisconsin - Americas - Al Jazeera English

Seems to be about who gets and who pays. This is the most detailed article I have seen so far.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

TwoHoot said:


> Government programs won't be funded because the money is gone.
> Pensions agreements won't be honored because the money is gone.
> Medicaid promises won't be kept because the money is gone.
> Medicare won't cover health expenses because the money is gone.
> ...


The government will not default on its debt, it will print money to pay them causing inflation (happening already), then hype-inflation (coming soon).


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Maybe the feds can, but not the local gov. Didn't a retired fireman die in his own home in Al because they stopped paying (defaulted) on the pension? Here in NJ the State has been reducing it's contributions to the pension, while the worker continue to make their payments. They have even "borrowed" from the fund, but now they want to restructure the system and default on what they borrowed/failed to contribute for the last dozen or so years. I think it's F-ed up that they do not keep up their end while reaching further into our pockets and now all of a sudden there is a problem? The problem started when they couldn't balance a budget, it was made worse when they began stealing from the pensions with no way to pay it back. Our fat a$$, I mean fat cat gov. wants us to "share the pain" (his exact words) in a situation that they created. He has a guy making 6 figures and his primary job is to update the fat cat's facebook page. What kind of crap is that? I'll be happy to share the pain when all those over paid, over health cared, free state car driving slobs share the pain too. Let them get min wage, give back the cars and live in a row home. Until then F- them all. Share the pain, my ass!. One look at his 300+ pound body tells anyone with 1/2 a brain that he has no idea what pain is. The town wants more taxes to pay the bills, but when I go in to pay my taxes in Jan, the girls have the windows cracked because it's 78f inside the twp building. It's closer to 62 in my own home. No wonder they can't pay the bills. Take your head out of your butt, turn down the heat and for Christ sake SHUT THE WINDOW! and maybe you could pay the bills. Somewhere common sense has been lost. (deep breath) Ok, I'm better now. rant off.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

Well, well, well ...

The hubby tells me last night that he is oh so grateful that he does not work at the Capitol Building anymore. Although we had talked about this when he received his promotion a while back I am curious as to why he is bringing it up again now.

Apparently there are going to be protests at our state Capitol Building today to change the pension plans here in Oklahoma. There is a push (by whom I do not know yet) to do away with the pension system entirely and have new hires and future employees contribute to a 401(k) like private sector employees with a greatly reduced contribution from the state. (Like some employers do with a percentage of matching funds, but the majority of the contributions come from the employee.)

No one has said a WORD about making this retroactive or changing what is in place for existing employees but the word on the street is the State Employees representative organization is having a melt down.

Oklahoma has taken steps to address these issues in the past. And the public employees' rep association has had a hissyfit every single time. About 10-15 years ago they went from the Rule of 80 (your years of service plus your age had to equal 80 before you were eligible to retire, but you vested at 5 years) to the Rule of 90 for new hires. My husband's pension system raised the mandatory employee contribution by almost 50% at just about the same time because they were anticipating shortfalls but they were the only state agency to do that.

On the surface the 401(k) idea looks good to me. Pretty much the same type of employee retirement that the private sector has and it is good enough for them. :dunno: There is already a state retirement option that you voluntarily donate to (and the state provides some matching funds but it is a nominal amount -- roughly equal to the administrative fees you pay) and the returns we have seen from it have consistently be a little better than market.

While I am all for power in numbers and negotiating the best deal you can for your employees but at some point in time these reps need to realize, like the rest of us have, that robbing Peter to pay Paul is simply not going to work anymore.

I have a really hard time with the fact that my husband's rep. association can quietly handle whatever has been thrown at them and all the other representative associations continue to push for more and more and more ... the rest of the state be damned.

I honestly feel like these associations (and the unions) are NOT looking out for the best interests of their employees anymore. And it breaks my heart because in the end it is going to be all of us (both public and private sector employees who pay the price). After all ... these reps already HAVE their salaries and benefits (which, I might add are higher and more lucrative that what the vast majority of the rest of us have.)

:soapbox2:

Sorry ... didn't realize I was so upset by this whole thing til I started typing ... eep:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I don't have a rant---only been here 3 and 1/2 years...but the 12 million used to build the unnecessary court house could have been used elsewhere(use it or lose it my a$$..) --I guess the old one can house the street people or the state employees when they don't get their pensions..because an article I read said Ky was tenth of the top 11 states to have pension problems soon.


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## TwoHoot (Feb 17, 2011)

Jarhead0311 said:


> The government will not default on its debt, it will print money to pay them causing inflation (happening already), then hype-inflation (coming soon).


I agree. The FED will create money not backed by real goods and services (GDP) and the debts will technically be paid in full with money that has little purchasing power.

For the average citizen, there is little difference between not having any money and having money that won't buy anything.

Either way, money that will buy the real goods and services isn't there. Things will turn ugly when that reality takes hold.

Cordially,
TwoHoot


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

TwoHoot said:


> Where did the money go? It went to corrupt politicians and international bankers. They looted the nation and they are gone - with the money.


actually, it was the WORLD that was looted and MOST of it (the money) NEVER really existed in the first place... as it was conjured out of thin air through the "magic" of fractional reserve lending.

here's a cartoon to help illustrate:


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## Radmaximus (Oct 6, 2010)

Right on the mark, well said!


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## Radmaximus (Oct 6, 2010)

This book really explains in a layman's way how the governments and bankers have robbed us blind. Interesting to see how our money is diluted by the banking system and the Government......... 

Rad


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

It looks like unions here are gearing up to hold a show of support for the Wiss unions on Friday. I'm sure other States are planning the same thing.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> Maybe *the feds can, but not the local gov. *Didn't a retired fireman die in his own home in Al because they stopped paying (defaulted) on the pension?* Here in NJ the State has been reducing it's contributions to the pension, while the worker continue to make their payments. They have even "borrowed" from the fund*, but now they want to restructure the system and default on what they borrowed/failed to contribute for the last dozen or so years. I think it's F-ed up that they do not keep up their end while reaching further into our pockets and now all of a sudden there is a problem? The problem started when they couldn't balance a budget, it was made worse when they began stealing from the pensions with no way to pay it back. Our fat a$$, I mean fat cat gov. wants us to "share the pain" (his exact words) in a situation that they created. He has a guy making 6 figures and his primary job is to update the fat cat's facebook page. What kind of crap is that? I'll be happy to share the pain when all those over paid, over health cared, free state car driving slobs share the pain too. Let them get min wage, give back the cars and live in a row home. Until then F- them all. Share the pain, my ass!. One look at his 300+ pound body tells anyone with 1/2 a brain that he has no idea what pain is. The town wants more taxes to pay the bills, but when I go in to pay my taxes in Jan, the girls have the windows cracked because it's 78f inside the twp building. It's closer to 62 in my own home. No wonder they can't pay the bills. Take your head out of your butt, turn down the heat and for Christ sake SHUT THE WINDOW! and maybe you could pay the bills. Somewhere common sense has been lost. (deep breath) Ok, I'm better now. rant off.





> the feds can, but not the local gov.


 right


> Here in NJ the State has been reducing it's contributions to the pension, while the worker continue to make their payments. They have even "borrowed" from the fund


You have been robbed, pure and simple both by politicians and by corrupt union leaders.

We are all screwed, the money has been stolen, spent, and there is no way of getting it back, but there is also no way for us to continue. Oh they will try....printing money, raising taxes, but that only kicks the can down the road making the day of reckoning even worse.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

The majority of the American public will agree we need to balance all the budgets, home, local government, county and state as well as national government. The problem with this is most will say do what ever it takes just don't mess with my lifestyle. Wake up folks we will all have to sacrifice something to get our country back on it's financial feet. First we need the government to stop creating more new debt. The unions for instance can instead of giving up their bargining power just put a moratorium on it for a few years. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Most of us have had our lifestyles messed up already, but the fat cats have not. Now my state wants us to "share their pain". The problem is they have it backwards. They have great pensions, health care, gov cars, million dollar homes, trips to europe etc. I have a 25 yo car and a rowhome. How about if they try sharing our pain. Everyone has a right to make a good living, but lets compare apples to apples. How do they think they can attack our way of living w/o making concessions themselves. That's what burns me up. Our state spends tons of money to restore our old battleship and make it landmark. Now get me wrong, I understand the history and feeling to want to preserve it, but my wife just sold her dead grandmother's nativity set to get extra money. There's plenty of history there and now it's gone forever. Stop spending money on the boat and scrap it. Share our pain! There are hundreds of other wasteful projects the state continues to dump money into. Let them raid their own pension and lead by example or shut the hell up.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

The more I think about it, the pissed I get. I just might go to Trenton on Friday even though I'm not union.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> The more I think about it, the pissed I get. I just might go to Trenton on Friday even though I'm not union.


 LOL, let me see if I have this right. The government is screwing us to our knees. So in response, you are going down and join the government workers union in helping them to screw us out of more money. :dunno:


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Wow, you got it backwards. The working slob didn't "borrow" the pension money, doesn't drive a free car, didn't vote themselves pay raises or have free health care for life and on and on. 
I am used to that sort of response because that's the spin our local media has been feeding people. Just like all the people in our state who blame the teachers for property tax rates when the school only get bout 1/3 of that tax and the real problem imo is the way the administration is set up. Just like most police departments, It's too top heavy. Our PD has 7-8 Sgts for 4 squads. The military would laugh at how it's set up. Up here we have dozens of little towns. Each one has a mayor, council, etc, school board, super etc numerous fire departments high ranking police officers and chiefs (with cars, like the chief is really going to get out of bed at night, take his car and do something productive with it like give it to a k9 officer who will use it at night) If things were regionalized around here, we could cut out a lot of pencil pushers without cutting a lot of services. Non of them will bring it up or support it, because it means they would be attacking their own jobs or their best friend's job. It's easier to go after someone else and misrepresent the truth to the media. We need a law to make them take the same pay and benefits that they propose for worker. 
The workers making fair pay for a fair day's work are not the problem. The problem starts at the top and that's where it need to be addressed. 
I blame state worker and teachers just as much as I blame the army privates because the defense budget is screwing me out of money.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

No , I don't have it backward. The government unions ask for more perks, the politicians give it to them....the unions support the politicians who gave them the perks, the unions give them their support, the circle never ends. These government unions make more money than the rest of us but we pay them. We are the only ones without a say in this process. It cost the politicians nothing out of their pockets indeed they are using our money to buy support. Government employees shouldn't be allowed to form unions against the public.

To your point about the perks politicians enjoy, I agree, vote their a$$ out go after them, how does it help to leave them in their jobs and vote government unions more money and power?

This argument is all academic anyway....you are broke....the US is broke and they will reduce their expenses one way or another. The US can't keep bailing out states, the states can't print money like the feds so something has to give. Readjust pensions and wages or lay people off.

My wife works for a factory who has fallen on hard time. Everyone was asked to give up a weeks vacation and 10% of their wages. The company was then bought by another company and many of the factories of my wife's company were closed. The local factory where she works has their labor contract coming up. The union is saying they want their concessions back or they will strike.
My wife works in the office and the PTB are making plans to close down if there is a strike. They have warned the workers but the members (mainly the older workers) have said they can draw their unemployment and lay back for a couple of years. The younger ones and the ones who don't have a nest egg to fall back on are worried to death. Who is the union helping out here? The little guy? I don't think so. There are no jobs for these short sighted fools to go to and losing a few hundred jobs for our community will hurt us all.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

Jarhead0311 said:


> No , I don't have it backward. The government unions ask for more perks, the politicians give it to them....the unions support the politicians who gave them the perks, the unions give them their support, the circle never ends. These government unions make more money than the rest of us but we pay them. We are the only ones without a say in this process. It cost the politicians nothing out of their pockets indeed they are using our money to buy support. Government employees shouldn't be allowed to form unions against the public.
> 
> To your point about the perks politicians enjoy, I agree, vote their a$$ out go after them, how does it help to leave them in their jobs and vote government unions more money and power?
> 
> ...


Without a doubt.

My husband is eligible to retire and take his pension but has chosen to stay on for a while longer. We are lucky that he is still young and able to do so. I'll be honest ... part of that is because we are worried to death about the economy and part of it is because we are worried about cuts to his pension. He has gone so far as to start classes at a local vo-tech so he will have a couple of options for income (he is already a dang fine mechanic and gunsmith) should he decide he wants or needs to do that. Never mind Social Security ... that is a lost cause as far as we are concerned.

Oddly enough we "make" more money with me staying at home gardening and taking care of the house and our portfolio than we did when I was working. After we did the math we figured out we were actually losing money every month that I worked. But we are so much better off than most, especially the young men and women with families just starting out their careers. My heart goes out to those folks.


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