# Cryptocurrencies



## BillS

https://coinmarketcap.com/

https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/bitcoin

I've been doing some reading about cryptocurrencies. Basically they're electronic currencies that don't physically exist but can be bought, sold, and redeemed for cash.

One of the big advantages of them as an investment is that there's no way for the government to control their price. The SEC has twice rejected applications for a Bitcoin ETF. In theory it means that the exchange would buy Bitcoins and investors could trade in them. In practice it means the exchange would sell a hundred paper Bitcoins for every one that actually exists.

The disadvantages are such that you can't use them without electricity and some big country could outlaw their use which could affect their price. From my understanding, China doesn't allow its citizens to redeem Bitcoins but it's a way for them to get their money safely out of the country.

Bitcoin is the biggest cryptocurrency with just under 50% of the total market. It has a market cap of $32 billion and recent activity of at least $1 billion a day. Rob Kirby said that it's going up because foreigners are dumping their dollars as a store of value. He also said that we'd see the gold and silver markets move like the cryptocurrencies if their prices weren't manipulated.

Their are 5 other crypto's with at least a billion dollar market cap. There are hundreds of others. Swaptoken is rated #667 and has a market cap of $27.

One of the things to look at in evaluating a cryptocurrency is how many currency units exist. Bitcoin has 16 million while Ripple has 38 billion which is why Bitcoin trades at $2000 and Ripple trades at $0.20.

Bitcoin was just under $1000 on January 1st and reaching $2800 or so before dropping back to about $2000. Ethereum was $8 on January 1st but it hit $200 recently before dropping back to $150. I think there's still some serious money to be made investing in cryptocurrencies but I wouldn't personally invest more than 10% in them.


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## Pessimistic2

BillS said:


> https://coinmarketcap.com/
> https://www.worldcoinindex.com/coin/bitcoin
> I've been doing some reading about cryptocurrencies. Basically they're electronic currencies that don't physically exist but can be bought, sold, and redeemed for cash. One of the big advantages of them as an investment is that there's no way for the government to control their price. The SEC has twice rejected applications for a Bitcoin ETF. In theory it means that the exchange would buy Bitcoins and investors could trade in them. In practice it means the exchange would sell a hundred paper Bitcoins for every one that actually exists. The disadvantages are such that you can't use them without electricity and some big country could outlaw their use which could affect their price. From my understanding, China doesn't allow its citizens to redeem Bitcoins but it's a way for them to get their money safely out of the country.
> Bitcoin is the biggest cryptocurrency with just under 50% of the total market. It has a market cap of $32 billion and recent activity of at least $1 billion a day. Rob Kirby said that it's going up because foreigners are dumping their dollars as a store of value. He also said that we'd see the gold and silver markets move like the cryptocurrencies if their prices weren't manipulated.
> Their are 5 other crypto's with at least a billion dollar market cap. There are hundreds of others. Swaptoken is rated #667 and has a market cap of $27.
> One of the things to look at in evaluating a cryptocurrency is how many currency units exist. Bitcoin has 16 million while Ripple has 38 billion which is why Bitcoin trades at $2000 and Ripple trades at $0.20. Bitcoin was just under $1000 on January 1st and reaching $2800 or so before dropping back to about $2000. Ethereum was $8 on January 1st but it hit $200 recently before dropping back to $150. I think there's still some serious money to be made investing in cryptocurrencies but I wouldn't personally invest more than 10% in them.


The good news is cryptocurrency is coming into its own. The bad news is if the Web goes down, it's worthless...period.


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## BillS

https://hedgeaccordingly.com/2017/0...ss-blockchain-technology-goes-mainstream.html

From #Bitcoin to Big Business, #Blockchain Technology Goes Mainstream

The technology behind bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is being looked at by more conventional companies and businesses.

Known as blockchain, it is a public digital ledger that keeps a running tally of all cryptocurrency transactions within a distributed network of computers. Once they are recorded, transactions cannot be edited or removed, thus adding to the "chain."

"It's kind of like if you share an Excel file with a group of your employees at the office, but you don't know exactly who updated it," explained Hudson Jameson, chief operating officer and blockchain lead at Oaken Innovations. "Every time that you update the file, it gets updated on every other computer."

Cut out the middle man

Blockchains eliminate the need for intermediary parties, by relying on a decentralized network of computers, or nodes, to verify all transactions. Bitcoin uses blockchain technology to enable anonymous, peer-to-peer payments, which is why the digital currency is often associated with illicit activity.

But developers are realizing blockchain technology can be equally useful in traditional, commercial applications.

"There's this whole trend of enterprise blockchains, which is essentially using certain aspects of blockchain technology, like this global shared ledger, but without native cryptocurrency, so a way to represent their actual balance sheets and just kind of transact them more efficiently with their peers," said Alex Sunnarborg, research analyst at Coindesk.

"More people are using these networks and the space has really just boomed," Sunnarborg added.

Competition from startups

Bitcoin's blockchain protocol is also seeing competition from startups like Ethereum, which issues ether, a competing digital currency. Like bitcoin, the Ethereum protocol is open-source. Users can not only conduct transactions with ether, but interested developers can program and build applications that run on the same blockchain protocol and use ether as a form of payment.

Jameson's startup developed a hardware and software platform for cars based on the Ethereum blockchain.

"We put an Ethereum node on a Tesla, and whenever it would go through a toll bridge, the Ethereum node ... would interact with the toll bridge and autonomously pay the toll bridge," Jameson said. "If you think about what a toll bridge does today, you go through the toll bridge and you have to pay a credit card transaction fee. There [are] these systems in the toll bridge that work with multiple companies ... but with our system, it's literally machine-to-machine."

This machine-to-machine communication allows direct access to the digital currency stored in one's digital wallet. Transactions are processed on the spot without going outside of the network.

"Automakers are now starting to get interested in blockchain, they're seeing what it can do for ... the future for autonomous cars and some data-sharing applications ... and blockchain's going to be integral to that," Jameson said.

Corporations explore its uses

Companies like Toyota, UnitedHealth Group and Fidelity are exploring blockchain technologies as a way to streamline operations and cut costs. In doing so, they are also lending legitimacy to the space.

"It's no longer just bitcoin ... it really started as currency, but this whole, decentralized peer-to-peer technology thing really kicked off a whole trend of much more than just money," Sunnarborg said.

Only time will tell whether blockchain can set off a chain reaction.

"How it evolves into government frameworks is yet to be seen," added Sunnarborg. "But it's really hard to stop it at this point, it's like once the cat's out of the bag with this new technology it's out there, and people are going to continue to transact."


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## bkt

I've been mining litecoins with hardware at home for a few years and have a few ounces of gold to show for my effort. ProvidentMetals.com, JMBullion.com and probably other purveyors of PMs accept cryptocurrencies. For places that only accept bitcoin, there's always Bitcoin Exchange (btc-e.com) where you can trade other coins for BTC.

As for blockchain technology, it's a very interesting disruptive technology precisely because it removes middlemen from conventional transactions, it's secure and it isn't manipulable by governments.


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## BillS

I registered with coinbase.com about 2 weeks ago but their system wasn't working right so I wasn't able to register any credit card. Then a week ago last Sunday I was able to. I thought about buying Ripple but Ripple has 38 billion currency units so it's hard to imagine it rising much beyond the 33 cents where it was at. I thought of buying Bitcoin but decided that Bitcoin was like gold and Ethereum was like silver. So I bought $500 worth of Ethereum. Now it's worth $772 in just 10 days. I watch it carefully because I want to be able to get out with a profit if it starts to drop. 

Bitcoin is up 8% today. It was up to $2920 but since dropped to $2820. It's had $2 billion worth of activity in the last 24 hours. Lately Bitcoin and Ethereum have about a billion dollars worth of activity per day. Since January 1st the dollar index has dropped from 103.3 to 96.6. That's 6.5% in 5 months. It's dropping at an annualized rate of 15%. I think the more the dollar drops the more money will go into cryptocurrencies. If you're an upper middle class person in Argentina and you're holding dollars, what would you do if you see the dollar dropping and Bitcoin going up? At some point you'll have to dump your dollars for Bitcoin or maybe a number of different cryptocurrencies.


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## Pessimistic2

BillS said:


> I registered with coinbase.com about 2 weeks ago but their system wasn't working right so I wasn't able to register any credit card. Then a week ago last Sunday I was able to. I thought about buying Ripple but Ripple has 38 billion currency units so it's hard to imagine it rising much beyond the 33 cents where it was at. I thought of buying Bitcoin but decided that Bitcoin was like gold and Ethereum was like silver. So I bought $500 worth of Ethereum. Now it's worth $772 in just 10 days. I watch it carefully because I want to be able to get out with a profit if it starts to drop. Bitcoin is up 8% today. It was up to $2920 but since dropped to $2820. It's had $2 billion worth of activity in the last 24 hours. Lately Bitcoin and Ethereum have about a billion dollars worth of activity per day. Since January 1st the dollar index has dropped from 103.3 to 96.6. That's 6.5% in 5 months. It's dropping at an annualized rate of 15%. I think the more the dollar drops the more money will go into cryptocurrencies. If you're an upper middle class person in Argentina and you're holding dollars, what would you do if you see the dollar dropping and Bitcoin going up? At some point you'll have to dump your dollars for Bitcoin or maybe a number of different cryptocurrencies.


If you're into "speculation," you might want to check out "binary options," on the NADEX. Just beware of scammer brokers....lot of that going on!!

https://www.nadex.com/binary-option...FcHyw&ef_id=WTbezAAAAODjDj6L:20170606165644:s

Like all market ventures....don't invest more than you can afford to lose!! Personally, I like speculating in the IPO market. Still a crap shoot, though!


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## Jim1590

bkt said:


> I've been mining litecoins with hardware at home for a few years and have a few ounces of gold to show for my effort. ProvidentMetals.com, JMBullion.com and probably other purveyors of PMs accept cryptocurrencies. For places that only accept bitcoin, there's always Bitcoin Exchange (btc-e.com) where you can trade other coins for BTC.
> 
> As for blockchain technology, it's a very interesting disruptive technology precisely because it removes middlemen from conventional transactions, it's secure and it isn't manipulable by governments.


I have wanted to get into mining but I do not have a whole lot to put into it. Essentially looking for something that will put some cash aside without breaking the bank on electricty use.

Whats a good way to get started without paying out hundreds in specialized equipment for the mining?


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## Magus

You can keep your "BEAST BUCKS" If its not in my hand, it's not money.
I'll take an ounce of gold over a million bitcoins any day! it's just another con to get you in love with a cashless society.:brickwall:


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## readytogo

About the only of value in a moneyless society(Great Depression);would be carrots , corn ,apples, peas ,potatoes, beans ,eggs and chickens depending on which one came first and bullets.


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## BillS

readytogo said:


> About the only of value in a moneyless society(Great Depression);would be carrots , corn ,apples, peas ,potatoes, beans ,eggs and chickens depending on which one came first and bullets.


It's best to have assets that will go up in value and to be fully prepared. I don't want to be forced to eat my stored food because we're in hyperinflation before the collapse.


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## bkt

Jim1590 said:


> I have wanted to get into mining but I do not have a whole lot to put into it. Essentially looking for something that will put some cash aside without breaking the bank on electricty use.
> 
> Whats a good way to get started without paying out hundreds in specialized equipment for the mining?


Cloud mining (as in this example) is probably the way to go. You pay a recurring monthly fee to buy time on someone else's hardware to accrue bitcoins. I don't do this so I have no first-hand experience what the rate of payout would be.


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## Jim1590

bkt said:


> Cloud mining (as in this example) is probably the way to go. You pay a recurring monthly fee to buy time on someone else's hardware to accrue bitcoins. I don't do this so I have no first-hand experience what the rate of payout would be.


Looks interesting, but the cheapest option on the lifetime plan will cost $110 a year and gross $420 a year at current payout. So scalling up from there, you get 300 out from every 100 you put in. Maybe they will allow adding on with the proceeds to higher levels.

Might be worthwhile to give it a shot... :dunno:


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## bkt

mike_dippert said:


> As a general rule, people of the internet say to avoid cloud mining of any cryptocurreny. Companies who "rent" server time are doing so b/c the actual mining of coins is losing its profitability. By renting out that same hardware, they guarantee themselves a profit while the "tenant" assumes the risk/reward of getting their money out of it.
> 
> Bitcoin is just one "brand", the same basic rules apply to all of them. I briefly considered getting into mining, but quickly changed my mind.
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/5pq884/avoid_cloud_mining/%5B
> so you can be sure you're not dumping more money into the electricity required to power the miner than you're earning from it.
> 
> I've got no regrets getting into it.


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## Magus

I'm finding that the old copper pennies are worth more as copper than they ever were as a penny. Might wanna save pennies as well as old silver.


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## Pessimistic2

*Hmmmmm, interesting!!*



Magus said:


> I'm finding that the old copper pennies are worth more as copper than they ever were as a penny. Might wanna save pennies as well as old silver.


Copper spot price per lb., $2.53 currently. Pre-1982 pennies were 95% copper, and weighed .110 oz.....95% copper = .1045 oz. 16 oz = 153.11 pennies, call it 154.....which is $1.54. That's $0.99 under the current spot price!! Without considering miscellaneous costs (storage, labor, transportation), a $0.99 profit on $1.54 worth of copper coins is 64.28%. Hmmmmm! Looks like you have a winner!! :2thumb::beercheer:


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## BillS

Back to cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is up 15% this week. Ethereum is up 30% this week. Ripple is down 20% over the last two or three weeks. Everyday there's some that are up a lot. I was thinking about buying some Steem but I don't like their exchanges. They're not user friendly at all.


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## Magus

Try here Bill, some of my buds say they're OK.
https://www.coinbase.com/join


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## BillS

Coinbase is where I bought my Ethereum. I should have known that it would take time to sell it since it took time to buy it. Coinbase was partially down when Etereum was going up. It took a week before I could get a credit card approved. Now it's swamped with activity now that it's going down. Ethereum hit a high of about $411 a couple of days ago then dropped today to $262 before bouncing back to $316. 

I thought I could just sell my Ethereum and keep the cash in my Coinbase account. Then buy in again once it settled to a new low. But I can't. I can't transfer it back to my credit card. And it takes time to get a new withdrawal account approved now that they're extremely busy. 

I'm now in a situation where I couldn't get out of Ethereum right now even if I want to. I'm not panicking but I am hoping that I'm not wiped out before I can transfer my money out. It's possible that it will still bounce back by the time I'm approved to sell. So a good lesson for anyone buying cryptocurrencies is to make sure you're approved to sell as well as buy. Different exchanges have different rules so assume nothing.


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## bkt

That's interesting and good to know, Bill. I've used btc-e.com to exchange one kind of cryptocurrency for another and that exchange takes place within a couple minutes. I think btc-e.com allows you to buy crypto with sovereign currencies but I don't know how long the transaction takes.

If ethereum is lower now than when you bought it, just hold onto it and be ready to sell when it goes back up again.


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## bkt

Murphy kicks me in the nethers again!

We took a couple very brief power outages due to extremely high electricity usage from the heat and those outages fried the power supply to my main miner. That'll be out of commission for at least a few days.

And this had to happen at a time when Litecoin, which I mine, is up over 39% and skyrockets to $48.

It's not a big deal, but it is noteworthy. If you own your own mining hardware, it'd be wise to get it and the computer it's attached to on a really good UPS so stupid stuff like this won't set you back.


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## Pessimistic2

bkt said:


> Murphy kicks me in the nethers again! We took a couple very brief power outages due to extremely high electricity usage from the heat and those outages fried the power supply to my main miner. That'll be out of commission for at least a few days. And this had to happen at a time when Litecoin, which I mine, is up over 39% and skyrockets to $48. It's not a big deal, but it is noteworthy. If you own your own mining hardware, it'd be wise to get it and the computer it's attached to on a really good UPS so stupid stuff like this won't set you back.


And when the SHTF happens, and the Internet goes down for possibly YEARS, you're going to cash in your "electronic money" how? A simple, short-term, power outage screws you up....what do you figure a long-term Internet outage is going to do? :scratch


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## Pessimistic2

AdmiralD7S said:


> We've discussed this already. In your proposed case, he can't get his money. In many other Doomsday scenarios, he gets a good payout if/when he chooses to get his money out. He has diversified his assets to minimize the chance of losing everything all at once.


His diversified assets are likely OK....gold, silver, etc. But why even invest in something that you KNOW is gonna go south if the Internet comes to a screeching halt? Maybe I'm too pessimistic, I don't know...just seems to me like that's not a real good idea. :dunno:


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## tmttactical

AdmiralD7S said:


> 1. Again, there are many scenarios where the internet keeps chugging right along. An easy case is inflation of most any degree.
> 
> 2. I believe he's mentioned that it's money he can afford to lose. He's not trying to pay bills with his cryptocurrency.
> 
> 3. We all prep for what we each believe to be the most important scenario(s) for our individual situation. No one's questioned Sentry's tanker truck of Dr. Pepper
> 
> When I had planned to hike the Apalachian Trail (was hoping to take 6 months off from my doctoral studies...didn't happen), I found an interesting phrase - "hike your own high" (HYOH). It is the general community conceding that there are many ways to succeed, even if some ways are considered "wrong." The phrase is used all the time as there are always keyboard ninjas trying to tell someone else what they should and shouldn't do with their time, money, gear, etc. May I be so bold as to suggest that "prep your own prep (PYOP)" could find a home here in our community?


I kinda like that phrase. PYOP. I am probably guilty of suggesting to others to prep my path. I do admit I have very little tolerance for what I may consider poor judgement. This a good reminder phrase. Thanks for the concept.


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## bkt

Pessimistic2 said:


> And when the SHTF happens, and the Internet goes down for possibly YEARS, you're going to cash in your "electronic money" how? A simple, short-term, power outage screws you up....what do you figure a long-term Internet outage is going to do? :scratch


LOL! Your point is taken.

For the record, I mine litecoins because I came to acquire the mining hardware cheap. Once I get enough, I buy a half-ounce or full ounce of gold from any of a number of places that accept cryptocurrencies. That gold is then held by me physically.

Also, I didn't lose anything - my wallets still contain what I had before the power outage and I'm free to use what's in them. The miner is just off-line 'til the ps gets replaced.


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## Pessimistic2

AdmiralD7S said:


> 1. Again, there are many scenarios where the internet keeps chugging right along.
> 3. We all prep for what we each believe to be the most important scenario(s) for our individual situation. No one's questioned Sentry's tanker truck of Dr. Pepper


It ain't gonna chug very far if the SHTF!! Sentry's tanker truck of Sgt. Pepper is an example of....um, an example of.....well, hell, I don't know!!

Mining electronic currency might be a good way to "get in and get out," at the present, as we are not under any type of SHTF situation.....if the currency takes a decent jump I can see where a healthy profit can be had. It's basically no different than speculating on IPOs, and I have a fair amount tied up in that....sometimes ya make a bundle, sometimes ya lose a little, but in general, if you're not worried about hanging on to it long enough to take advantage of capital gains rates, you're going to come out way ahead. I imagine cryptocurrency presents the same type of opportunity, if you're not interested in hanging on to it long enough to qualify for capital gains tax rates. Hell, commodities are the same way....jumping in and out can be very profitable....hanging on to them long-term, not so much!!

When the SHTF and the Internet comes to a halt, all forms of electronic whatever are going down the tubes. It's what you have "physically," that's going to matter, and I think we all know that. Gold, silver, maybe even platinum, diamonds, emeralds (not so much on the stones, though), are all gonna come in very handy! Primarily, it'll be gold and silver. Right now my portfolio is around 70% stocks, 20% PMs, and 10% "speculation" (IPOs & commodities). And I limit the stocks to what I consider "vital necessities" like food, medical, some high-tech stuff, and "hygienic products." Seems to work pretty well....nothing spectacular, but a steady flow of dividends, with an upward trend in the value of the stocks themselves. The tax bracket I'm in, I don't worry very much about taking advantage of capital gains....wouldn't make a pizz ants worth of difference. A couple LEO friends have been jumping in and out of the "binary options" market, but I don't care much for that at all.....LOT of fraud/scams going on there, and REAL EASY to get snakebit!!

You have a good one! :2thumb::beercheer:


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## tmttactical

Investing is like playing card for a living. Some people are very good players and some people have loan sharks out hunting for them. Even the best poker player get a "Bad BEAT" hand. It happens to all. 

I never criticize another persons choice on how to invest. I also do not suggest to others how or where to invest. AdmiralD7S coined a phrase PYOP, this also applies to investing. To each their own poison.


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## terri9630

There's nothing wrong with Sentry's tanker truck of Dr Pepper. Just as long as he isn't trying to confiscate MY tanker of Dr Pepper. Then it's on like Donkey Kong! LEO against LEO, cause hubby will be fighting right next to me. He doesn't want me going without, it's not good for him.


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## BillS

Pessimistic2 said:


> And when the SHTF happens, and the Internet goes down for possibly YEARS, you're going to cash in your "electronic money" how? A simple, short-term, power outage screws you up....what do you figure a long-term Internet outage is going to do? :scratch


If we don't have electricity then your bank account will be worthless too. The business world is highly dependent on the internet. I don't see the government shutting it down long term.


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## Pessimistic2

BillS said:


> If we don't have electricity then your bank account will be worthless too. The business world is highly dependent on the internet. I don't see the government shutting it down long term.


Got that right...would be worthless as teats on a boar hog!! SHTF, the "Government" might not have a whole lot to say about it....could be down for months! The only difference is, I have "money" physically sitting IN the bank, at least in theory. In reality, the damn bank couldn't pay off 20% of it's account holders, and the FDIC/FSLIC would be worthless, as well!! SHTF time, it's gonna be "gold/silver," or barter!


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## LastOutlaw

Magus said:


> You can keep your "BEAST BUCKS" If its not in my hand, it's not money.
> I'll take an ounce of gold over a million bitcoins any day! it's just another con to get you in love with a cashless society.:brickwall:


I'm with you on this one. BTW.... Who owns bitcoin? Anyone?


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## tmttactical

terri9630 said:


> There's nothing wrong with Sentry's tanker truck of Dr Pepper. Just as long as he isn't trying to confiscate MY tanker of Dr Pepper. Then it's on like Donkey Kong! LEO against LEO, cause hubby will be fighting right next to me. He doesn't want me going without, it's not good for him.


Have you or Sentry checked your Dr Pepper tankers lately. They might contain Pepsi now. I heard there was this very sneaky Wizard who loves Dr. Pepper. There is this rumor going around that this very evil Wizard is trying to get critters to rob and raid folks supplies of Dr. pepper, and switch it for Pepsi but it is just a rumor. No more truth in it, than there is about the Clinton Email server. Still you all might just want to take a taste sample. :lolsmash:


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## Pessimistic2

tmttactical said:


> Have you or Sentry checked your Dr Pepper tankers lately. They might contain Pepsi now. I heard there was this very sneaky Wizard who loves Dr. Pepper. There is this rumor going around that this very evil Wizard is trying to get critters to rob and raid folks supplies of Dr. pepper, and switch it for Pepsi but it is just a rumor. No more truth in it, than there is about the Clinton Email server. Still you all might just want to take a taste sample. :lolsmash:


Pay no attention to this demented Lizard....he's hallucinating, musta got into those "Peyote buttons" I been hearing about.......

The Wizard doesn't even LIKE Dr. Pepper....Now Vernon's Ginger Ale, well that's another story! Your Dr.Pepper is safe from the Wizard....not too sure about the *LIZARD,* though! I think he's smoking that stuff....and he got his little Beagle buddy messed up, too!! Gotta watch them Lizards!!


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## Flight1630

LastOutlaw said:


> I'm with you on this one. BTW.... Who owns bitcoin? Anyone?


Something on bitcoin
https://bitcoin.org/en/about-us


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## BillS

Ethereum has been dropping like a rock. It hit about $400 two weeks ago and has been dropping ever since. I sold all of mine yesterday when it was about $300. I still had a profit of $300. I'm waiting for it to stabilize at a lower price. Then I'll buy more. At this exact second it's down to $216.


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## HardCider

I am such a dumb @$$ farm boy. I had to google etherum cause I have never even heard of it before. But we did barter for 6 new turkey chicks with a coup[le skeins of hand dyed yarn and a couple of felted soaps


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## BillS

HardCider said:


> I am such a dumb @$$ farm boy. I had to google etherum cause I have never even heard of it before. But we did barter for 6 new turkey chicks with a coup[le skeins of hand dyed yarn and a couple of felted soaps


It's only been around for about 2 years. I never heard about it until about 6 weeks ago. So I was pretty late to the party too.


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## Flight1630

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@cardboard/mining-cryptocurrency-with-nvidia-card-jan-2017


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## BillS

I bought my first cryptocurrency on May 28th. I made multiple purchases to get my total investment up to $2100. If I would have spent all of that $2100 at once on May 20th I could have bought 1 Bitcoin for $2028. It's tripled in price since then.


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