# Total melt down?



## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I have a two part question. The first part deals with our Nation's economy and before anyone answers this be advised that I am not looking for answers from kool aid drinkers, tin foil hat wearers, conspiricy theorists, or any one preaching end times. 

I am looking for an informed answer to the question of where do you see this Country heading in the next six months to a year? 

Do you forsee total bankruptcy and or complete financial melt down without the ability to meet any Fed. funded payroll as in the Military, social security, Military retiree's, VA compensation, Federal employee's and so on. 

Second part of the question is how well insulated do you think the State of Texas is against a national crump and a possible massive lay off?


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Old Vet*



oldvet said:


> I have a two part question. The first part deals with our Nation's economy and before anyone answers this be advised that I am not looking for answers from kool aid drinkers, tin foil hat wearers, conspiricy theorists, or any one preaching end times.
> 
> I am looking for an informed answer to the question of where do you see this Country heading in the next six months to a year?
> 
> ...


This is what I see.

You can't see where we are headed with out looking to see where we have been.

In 1929 we had a great depression, but there were only two billion people in the world and 83 precent of our population worked in agricluture.

Money was backed by silver and gold. If you had some it was worth somthing.

Compairing this situation to today, there are seven billion people in the world and only two precent of the population work in agriculture.

Our money is no longer backed by anything but credit and we owe 17 trillion to people who hate us.

47 precent of our population do not work and are either wholely or partualy dependant on the goverment to issue a check each month.

The Dollar is rapidly defalting in purchasing power.

The first week that the Federal Reserve offers a bond sale and no government buys , we instantly go broke.

I have a quarter million in mutual funds and anuitys but if they all pay off in dollars and the dollar no longer has purchaseing power , what good are they?

This is the main reason I prep. It is comming and very quickly. If we survive another year without going into hyperinflation, I will be surprised.

Do not expect a warning from the government. The day before the banks close, they will assure the public , every thing is under control.

By the way , I draw disability , (Soc Security) and i expect to lose that income.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I am thinking the crunch will happen in the next six years. The problem with the time question is that it SHOULD be happening right now! We are about as bad off as Greece is if you look at the big picture, debt in the US is not just a matter of Federal Debt but also State and local debt which is crushing. So, why isn't it? Its the rule in physics called momentum. A heavy (larger) body has more momentum and takes greater friction to stop, well Greece is coming to a stand still (small) and Europe is following close behind (larger), but we are probably safe until they hit the final speed bump, because we are just that much larger. The other reason why we haven't yet started to feel the crunch is because of normalcy bias and our reserve status. A true economic collapse means that people start jumping ship, but when you are in shark infested waters most people do jump out of even a sinking ship till the last second. Because the FED can create money, and the Government can borrow till their blue in the face, I don't think you will see any real diminishment of services like in Greece UNTIL inflation arrives, and then services will diminish not because they stop sending you checks but because those checks will purchase less and less. I have lived in a hyper inflation scenarios and there is plenty of money out there, we all get to be millionaires, the problem is it doesn't buy anything.

Texas is probably pretty well off as far as fuel and energy (I think Texas has its own grid) definitely you guys have the right type of Government, what you lack (I think) is enough water and food for your population, Texas will suffer too because of a crunch, but I think not as badly as in other states. The real danger areas are high population areas and areas where you can't grow your own food and raise your own livestock.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Those in agriculture will be fine. All others ???? That's what I see.

Everyday hard workers will be hit hardest, expect struggles more than now and welfare receiptants will be just fine. This is for two years. After two years, everyday folks will be fed up and done, that's when the revolution will occur and revolutions will come from all aspects of life and lifestyles.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BillM, thank you Sir for the reply. I am on social security also, plus I draw a VA disability pension and I am drawing Military retirement pay. So if/when it all goes to crap I will loose almost all of my retirement and this really concerns me as I am sure it also concerns you.

I finally got my wife to understand where I am comming from by doing my prepping. If/when the economy does collapse and I loose my retirement, I don't think we will loose our home because we will be in the same boat as millions of other folks that can no longer make their mortgage payments and I honestly don't forsee the mortgage holders trying to foreclose on literally millions of homes, nor do I forsee any local law enforcement taking any action against homeowners.

If/when the collapse happens I can only hope and pray that my wife still has her job and that I will still get my small retirement from the State, then we would at least be able to pay the utilitiy bills and at least buy some groceries and gas( if it will still be available).

I told my Wife this morning that I am ramping up our preps so that we will at least have a years worth ( hopefully more if time permits) of food for 7 people.


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## dwfox (Nov 10, 2012)

I can only answer your first question. With all the quantitive easing the federal reserve is doing. In essence we will be ok six months from now. (keep prepping though) the U.S. Federal reserve is backing 40 billion dollars a month in new loans and mortgages. In reality trying to jump start the economy. But all there doing is creating a very scary financial bubble that will make 2008 crash look like the good times. There are always variables to this. In example, if we get pulled into a Iran-Isreal conflict. Just my two cents. Hope this helps.


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## northfarmer (Oct 18, 2012)

The debt can't be paid,the purchasing power of the currency goes to zero,commerce stops,the guys at the power station don't show up for work,thee end.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

When ever I say welfare' I mean welfare true welfare, I do not call SS or federal retirement, military salaries, etc welfare at all.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

DJgang and Padre, thanks for your replys. You have given me even more to think about and prepare for. I will not stress over what will more than likely come, as I said in my last post I will just ramp up my prepping and get ready as best I can.

Folks keep your ideas, thoughts, and yes even worries comming. I am very curious about what the majority of folks on here feel will happen.

Oh and for any Obama supporters on here that want to name call, argue, or attempt to belittle us, please do me a foavor and keep that crap to yourselves. I for one will not get in any "pissing contests" on this thread and I hope no one else will either.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I won't try to answer everyone's posts, so I will thank everyone beforehand for your posts. :2thumb: I basically just wanted to know what most folks on here think about the comming crunch. Again keep it comming. :melikey:


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Very good thread Dan, I too look forward to replies, even from Obama supporters. 

I am very concerned with the government playing savior here. It's not folks on SS, MC, fed retirement or salaries, it's the increase of folks that will end up relying on government in other ways. That's should be everyone's concern.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

oldvet said:


> DJgang and Padre, thanks for your replys. You have given me even more to think about and prepare for. I will not stress over what will more than likely come, as I said in my last post I will just ramp up my prepping and get ready as best I can.
> 
> Folks keep your ideas, thoughts, and yes even worries comming. I am very curious about what the majority of folks on here feel will happen.
> 
> Oh and for any Obama supporters on here that want to name call, argue, or attempt to belittle us, please do me a foavor and keep that crap to yourselves. I for one will not get in any "pissing contests" on this thread and I hope no one else will either.


Hi Dan...we've chatted before...about the Obama supporters here, they are also here because they see the need to prep so you won't get arguements or ridicule from them I'm sure. Fwiw, I don't see a collapse anytime soon unless there is a MAJOR incident, a small war that leads to a larger one, a trade war with China who could hurt us by manipulating the bonds of ours they hold, etc.....if things stay relatively placid internationally and the fiscal cliff fiasco doesn't provoke a crisis, we should be ok for awhile, imo....


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

BillM said:


> This is what I see.
> 
> The first week that the Federal Reserve offers a bond sale and no government buys , we instantly go broke.


A slight correction to Bill's post.
The US Treasury holds the auctions.
Last year (2011), the Federal Reserve bought 61% of *all US Teasuries sold at auction.*
This buying by the Fed is indicative that we're producing more debt than the market wants to buy. In a free market, the interest rates would rise to compensate buyers for their risk (as has happened in Spain.) Since that isn't happening due to Fed action, when the Fed can no longer afford to buy the excess, we will have a failed Treasury auction. 
Mark to market provisions in the Sarbane-Oxley Act means that at that point, *all US Treasuries* held by businesses (in particular banks and investing houses) are now worthless. That will start the dominos falling since these institutions will become insolvent since banks, in particular, hold US Treasuries as a major part of their reserves. 
Economic activity will virtually cease since there will be no orderly markets to exchange value. Businesses will close and the world will shift to a new reserve currency in an attempt to reboot.
The capital risk inherent in the bond market today is one of the reasons an investor should follow China's lead and begin to reduce their bond holdings.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

BillM said:


> This is what I see.
> 
> You can't see where we are headed with out looking to see where we have been.
> 
> ...


 why not cash in your million mutual funds so you can live on your own money and not ours, kinda give the good old US a helping hand when she's down? SSI is one of the entitlements that is hurting us.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

Altho I minored in Economics in college, that was many moons ago & I am going now on my "gut" or intuition, not any studies, pundits, etc.

That being said, I agree with what someone posted earlier, that it's surprizing we haven't already crashed. I keep waiting, waiting, waiting...So I'm guessing somehow the govt will find a way to keep kicking the can down the road. I sure don't see a collapse within 6 months. :dunno:


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

oldvet said:


> I am on social security also, plus I draw a VA disability pension and I am drawing Military retirement pay. So if/when it all goes to crap I will loose almost all of my retirement and this really concerns me


Until complete collapse happens and the government can't afford to print the paper with the make believe money they send you will continue to recieve that check, you just might not be able to spend it because no one will want it...



> If/when the economy does collapse and I loose my retirement, I don't think we will loose our home because we will be in the same boat as millions of other folks that can no longer make their mortgage payments and I honestly don't forsee the mortgage holders trying to foreclose on literally millions of homes, nor do I forsee any local law enforcement taking any action against homeowners.


Actually, because you will still get that check and no one will want that worthless money as long as your mortgage is FIXED RATE you actually will be able to spend more money on your mortgage and pay it off quicker. Imagine if you could put your whole income toward your mortgage, well if no one wants green backs you will be able to. This is the reason why I have often posted the (CONTROVERSIAL--no debate please) position that debt is a good thing in inflationary situations as you buy things when your money has value and pay it back when it doesn't. If you have a guaranteed income its the lien holders that will get slaughtered because of inflation. That's why BTW it is IMPOSSIBLY difficult to get long term loans (and even short term loans in places) in countries where inflation has been a problem, because loaning money is too much of a risk because of the fluctuation of the value of units of currency. (You loan 100, you get back 220, but by the time you get it back 220 it only buys 90units worth of value.)



> If/when the collapse happens I can only hope and pray that my wife still has her job and that I will still get my small retirement from the State, then we would at least be able to pay the utilitiy bills and at least buy some groceries and gas( if it will still be available).


The problem with inflation is that YOUR INCOME WILL GO UP, if you make 70k now you may make 150k during inflation, but your purchasing power will go down. Think of it this way. If you were locked in a room with 12 people and you were the only one with food and water, how much would you sell that food and water for? Answer: you wouldn't, that food and water would be priceless. If people decide that our currency has no value, how much will they give away for nothing?



> I told my Wife this morning that I am ramping up our preps so that we will at least have a years worth ( hopefully more if time permits) of food for 7 people.


Good idea


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lotsoflead said:


> why not cash in your million mutual funds so you can live on your own money and not ours, kinda give the good old US a helping hand when she's down? SSI is one of the entitlements that is hurting us.


Well if you consider folks like me that worked and paid into social security for 45+ years and am now drawing social security as recipients of an entitlement, or that folks like BillM that I would imagine has worked all of his adult life until he became physically unable to and had to start drawing SSI is receiving entitlements also, then I guess you are correct in that I feel after having been forced to pay into that system all of my adult working life I feel I am ENTITLED to the retirement promised.

The only reason that SS or SSI payments are "hurting us" is because TPTB in DC in all of their infinite wisdom chose to dip into the social security fund, *steal and spend all of the money set aside for SS and SSI recipients* :gaah:


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

BillM said:


> The first week that the Federal Reserve offers a bond sale and no government buys , we instantly go broke.





Marcus said:


> A slight correction to Bill's post.
> The US Treasury holds the auctions.
> Last year (2011), the Federal Reserve bought 61% of *all US Teasuries sold at auction.*


In other countries, that are not the World's reserve currency, a failure of a bond sale would result in the need to print money and thereby cause inflation. In the US the Treasury no longer prints money, a private bank does, i.e. the FED, and so theoretically they do what's in the best interest of their investors. However, as they are a private bank with a huge vested interest in the success of their main patron (who allows them to create money) the US Gov, they usually do what every other national bank does and print money, thus the Fed is really just a slight of hand that gives the illusion of monetary soundness.

What will precipitate a collapse is a bond sale where NO ONE except the FED buys bonds, which lets the cat out of the bag that the USD$ has no VALUE. What will break the camel's back though is when the Saudi's no longer want to accept USD$ for oil, or want 10x more of them for taking the risk. The straw that will break the camel's back is the day when the USD$ stops being the reserve currency and Oil starts being traded in Yen.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Well if you consider folks like me that worked and paid into social security for 45+ years and am now drawing social security as recipients of an entitlement, or that folks like BillM that I would imagine has worked all of his adult life until he became physically unable to and had to start drawing SSI is receiving entitlements also, then I guess you are correct in that I feel after having been forced to pay into that system all of my adult working life I feel I am ENTITLED to the retirement promised.


Social Security was set up so that you actually payed for your elders and now young people are meant to pay for you. No one likes to talk about it but 50 years of Abortion and Contraception has probably reduced our population of young people (i.e. the one's who you banked on paying for you) by 150 to 200 million. That's 150 to 200 million less productive workers, 150 to 200 million less consumers, 150 to 200 million less TAXPAYERS.

OOPS :nuts:

Let's not get into a debate about abortion and contraception but there are plenty of (IGNORED) reports about "population ageing" (go ahead google this keyword) that have the statistics to prove its true, and while better medical care is part of the reason for an aging population the obvious reason it has happened so quickly is how much smaller our families are....

My point is if a person makes a BAD investment, then they are not ENTITLED to anything other than a share in the suffering, and although you were forced, your generation voted over and over again for Social Security, so if it fails (as people have said for 30 years it must) its your own (those who voted for Social Security politicians) fault.

I understand your point, but your Generation needs to eventually admit that WE (the old folks) made a BAD INVESTMENT and we need to suck it up. Sure the Government stole your money, but that's the way the politicians you guys elected set it up. Personally I think Social Security is an unconstitutional 10 amendment violation, but you guys let it happen....

I don't mean to blame you personally but as a young guy I get frustrated with this I paid in so I'm entitled arguement. I payed into the markets before the crash, I am not entitled to anything other than the humility I learned when the market crashed, AND I am paying for Social Security today and I am 100% sure I will never see that money. Gotta pay for bad investments...


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## BrianAz (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm not an economist, but I believe I have a fair amount of good ol' common sense. QE1, QE2, QE3, print print print. 16 trillion in debt and counting. China has stopped purchasing our bonds. Our debt exceeds our GDP. 

Yeah, it's all gonna come crashing down.

I think it's necessary though. Coming off the gold standard in 1971 was only supposed to be temporary. Unfortunately it didn't work out that way. Now we have a mess of global proportions. It NEEDS to reset.

My HOPE is that the reset is harsh and painful, but relatively short-lived. I hope the misery is under 1 year. 

Man, I miss the 80's.


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## BrianAz (Oct 2, 2012)

Padre said:


> Social Security was set up so that you actually payed for your elders and now young people are meant to pay for you. No one likes to talk about it but 50 years of Abortion and Contraception has probably reduced our population of young people (i.e. the one's who you banked on paying for you) by 150 to 200 million. That's 150 to 200 million less productive workers, 150 to 200 million less consumers, 150 to 200 million less TAXPAYERS.
> 
> OOPS :nuts:
> 
> ...


Ahh, the good old opinion of the young. No offense, but it's not the older generation that's responsible. I think you need to broaden your horizons and think bigger picture. We have had a government that doesn't represent it's citizenry for much longer than you may be thinking.

FWIW- I'm in between. I'm in my mid-40's and it wasn't until a few years ago that I believe I started to see the "bigger" picture. I used to believe I could trust my government and that elections mattered.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

BrianAz said:


> Ahh, the good old opinion of the young. No offense, but it's not the older generation that's responsible. I think you need to broaden your horizons and think bigger picture. We have had a government that doesn't represent it's citizenry for much longer than you may be thinking....


Opinions are like a$$holes....

I prefer fact's, its an old habit of having worked on the Federal Budget...

"Only eight percent of likely voters stated that they were in favor of cuts in benefits to disabled workers who are eligible because they have paid Social Security payroll taxes."

Social security has ALWAYS been hugely popular...

"Support for this important disability program was broad based, including a 75 percent support rate from likely Republican voters."

Don't give me the elections don't matter crud, they matter, the old folks wanted government run pensions, they got it, it was a bad investment, PERIOD. Maybe you didn't... but you are in the minority. Its great moaning and groaning about what's happening to Social Security, BUT if you were one of the 92% who trusted in the government to provide your pension, then you make a bet, a wager, and you lost. z

Fact is IT CAN NOT WORK, so be smart now, cut your losses, and get prepared!


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Oldvet, here is my opinion, no tin hat theories.

If you look at the national debt at $16T, the unarguable fact that the budget has been left unchecked for past four plus years with a $1.1T deficit. It is easy to make assumptions that the budget will remain with a deficit over the next 4 years, will it continue to be $1.1T a year? I have no clue. Add in the fact that we have two ruling political parties that can't see past their own agendas for the good of the country - a fiscal cliff coming and QE3 running full force,,, I solidly believe we will see a total economic collapse. How soon, I am a "betting" man, but I can't bet on when... If we are allowed to go over the cliff, then 1 year is my best guess. If not, and strong taxes are put on those small business owners such as myself with incomes over $250,000 a year - then we will start to see small businesses closing, greater unemployment. Although current political powers believe the government can create enough "shovel ready jobs" it didn't happen over the last 4 years, so why would it happen over the next 4 years. What I thought was ironic, was during the debates Obama actually admitted that manufacturing jobs lost overseas would not come back, well what happens when the white collar small businesses close up too, those who are dependent on the $50,000, $75,000 or even $100,000+ jobs? So I think this would be a slow starting or continuance of collapse that we have been seeing for another 2 years, with a faster paced decline in year 3 and total by year 4... 

As for your second question, I have some HS friends in Texas and we were talking on FB about how would each of our states compare for economic meltdown. I think Texas is in good shape as they do, except one major issue. Texas has major water issues. They need to spend billions on upgrading their water reservoirs to have enough water for population growth over next 50 years, and have yet to spend it or start working on the situation... So that would be scary to me.


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## BrianAz (Oct 2, 2012)

Padre said:


> Opinions are like a$$holes....
> 
> I prefer fact's, its an old habit of having worked on the Federal Budget...
> 
> ...


Ok. Think what you want...

A very wise man (my good friend) once said to me "Look, we can sit around in a circle all day long and complain about how it all went wrong and why, or we can shut up and prepare".

So, I'm going to back out of this thread and get back to canning.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Padre said:


> What will precipitate a collapse is a bond sale where NO ONE except the FED buys bonds, which lets the cat out of the bag that the USD$ has no VALUE.


TY for elaborating on my point and eplaining the concept better than I did.

An easy analogy of this:

Suppose you're in a crowded room and you notice someone over in the corner, slightly hidden, who is loading a rifle.
Do you wait until he finishes loading before you take action? No.
Do you wait until he's actually pointing the rifle at the crowd before you take action? No.
Once you notice the man loading the rifle; you stop him. If you can't stop him, you leave so you're not hurt by his future actions.
The Fed buying more than half of all US Treasuries at auction is the man loading the rifle over in the corner.
You can't stop him so you have to leave the bond market to protect yourself. That means you can't hold *any type of bond* until the man with the rifle drops the rifle.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

oldvet said:


> Well if you consider folks like me that worked and paid into social security for 45+ years and am now drawing social security as recipients of an entitlement, or that folks like BillM that I would imagine has worked all of his adult life until he became physically unable to and had to start drawing SSI is receiving entitlements also, then I guess you are correct in that I feel after having been forced to pay into that system all of my adult working life I feel I am ENTITLED to the retirement promised.
> 
> The only reason that SS or SSI payments are "hurting us" is because TPTB in DC in all of their infinite wisdom chose to dip into the social security fund, *steal and spend all of the money set aside for SS and SSI recipients* :gaah:


 I said nothing about SS, it's the millions getting SSI who did not pay a dime into the system and the thousands who were going to retire in a month yet they faked an injury and got SSI because it pays more. I know at least 50 people right now drawing SSI and they are under 50 yrs of age, some are under 15 and their parents are getting an SSI ck to take care of them.

I think we should do away with SSI and just stick with SS for ther people who paid into it.( even illegals can get it ). I got working papers thru the school in 1951 to work on my parents farm because the law said I had to, I paid SS from then til 2007, 56 yrs and get half what I should because the system is being robbed by people who never put in a dime.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Padre said:


> Social Security was set up so that you actually payed for your elders and now young people are meant to pay for you. No one likes to talk about it but 50 years of Abortion and Contraception has probably reduced our population of young people (i.e. the one's who you banked on paying for you) by 150 to 200 million. That's 150 to 200 million less productive workers, 150 to 200 million less consumers, 150 to 200 million less TAXPAYERS.
> 
> OOPS :nuts:
> 
> ...


You are not going to change my mind or point of view on this subject and I doubt seriously that I would ever be able to change yours, so before any "pissing contests" start, (which is the main thing I wanted to avoid on this thread) for my part I will drop the social security conversation and hopefully get this thread back on it's original track.


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## dahur (Dec 18, 2009)

One of the possibilities that could happen in the next six months, that could affect us all, is if Israel launches on Iran, IMO.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Short and sweet;

I subscribe to a few financial news letters that I pay for. Today (Saturday) I received on special report (the last time this happened was the fall of 2007).

IN the letter it said to watch to see if the government can fix the financial cliff. If it does then we may have some time, if not then based on "the science of math" expect irreparable damage to our financial system. He went on to say that all investors should be planning drastic measures to protect your personal wealth. He will send more info on how to protect yourself later.

BTW no times were given for events to happen.

Sorry, can't say anything about Texas.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Folks I appreciate everyone's inputs in this thread and I believe (for the most part) I have the answers I was looking for. I also believe we have from (hopefully) 6 mos. to a year before a total collapse. 

I also agree that Texas (except for the water issue) has a better chance than most other States in being able to "weather the storm" and keep some semblance of normalcy going, at least I hope so.

This post dosen't mean that I want the thread to end and don't want anyone else's inputs, because I do. So if you have any input keep it comming.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Tweto said:


> Short and sweet;
> 
> I subscribe to a few financial news letters that I pay for. Today (Saturday) I received on special report (the last time this happened was the fall of 2007).
> 
> ...


I heard one also to take advantage now of current tax rates for cap gains... Get our profits out now, then once the market comes down significantly buy buy buy... As duck dynasty would say... Happy happy happy - NOT


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## Londoner (Aug 24, 2012)

I can tell you exactly what will happen and how it will happen and over what time scale. The answer is NOTHING over the short term NOT MUCH overthe medium term and over the long term a slow decline.

The US and Europe are in a very similar position. They let their "engine room" economic generators decline because in the short term cheap TVs clothes and consumer goods from abroad seemed too good to miss out on. People blame the banking crisis but that was just a side show. But all the time it was the family businesses that were going down the tubes. Cheap has a price and it is often more expensive than what you save.

In the UK town shops are going bust because people are buying cheaper on the internet. Near where I live a long established fishing tackle shop close down last year because it was driven out of business by the internet. One small loss but part of a bigger picture that we should take heed. I may buy five fishing reels in the whole of my life. Should the $20 I save on each one be worth destroying a family's 3rd generation business?

The decine will be slow, but progressive, like a creeping disease. This rot started 20-30 years ago. Its like the old saying "you don't know you have a termite problem till you fall through the floor"


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

I tend to see things developing before most others... But, I tend to also be a bit early in my predictions.

IMO, we are at our limits right now. Govt always surprises me, and I don't think it's going to be any different this time. Applying my experience of time, I'd bet it will still be a couple of years with a slow boiling on the pot before SHTF.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

It is all a house of cards at this point. The only thing holding the economy together is the normalcy bias. Once people figure it out, it is over. 

Texas WILL be much better off than the rest of the country for several reasons. One is gold. Texas owns a lot of it. Secondly, we are Texans and we know how to make do without government help. We have energy, agriculture, natural resources and lots of things that other states do not have. People constantly comment on Texas weather. Look at the drought in the middle of the country this year. Drought can happen anywhere. People in Texas are used to drought and live accordingly. I do not see the weather as a huge problem here.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I think 6 months to two years. If/ when we have a total collapse, I can not imagine why Texas would be better off than any other mostly rural state.


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## cgsurvivalman (Sep 20, 2012)

*I am with you oldvet*



oldvet said:


> BillM, thank you Sir for the reply. I am on social security also, plus I draw a VA disability pension and I am drawing Military retirement pay. So if/when it all goes to crap I will loose almost all of my retirement and this really concerns me as I am sure it also concerns you.
> 
> I finally got my wife to understand where I am comming from by doing my prepping. If/when the economy does collapse and I loose my retirement, I don't think we will loose our home because we will be in the same boat as millions of other folks that can no longer make their mortgage payments and I honestly don't forsee the mortgage holders trying to foreclose on literally millions of homes, nor do I forsee any local law enforcement taking any action against homeowners.
> 
> ...


I am in the same boat as you oldvet. I get my va comp and my military retirement. So, when the government goes belly up I will not have any income coming in. I am doing my best to prep has much as I can while I can. I am an old country farm boy so I will survive it will just be hard.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

cgsurvivalman said:


> I am in the same boat as you oldvet. I get my va comp and my military retirement. So, when the government goes belly up I will not have any income coming in. I am doing my best to prep has much as I can while I can. I am an old country farm boy so I will survive it will just be hard.


The thing is, if it goes belly up, we all will be in the same boat financially... My customers will stop paying, I will stop paying vendors... It's a vicious cycle...


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Right now I'm getting a lot of "Backdoor news" and it is not pretty. I'm watching the layoffs. A number of them have hit but I told by mid Dec. more will come. If that holds true ... Then I don't see it taking long. (More people taken out of the cookie jar than putting in. )

As for Texas ... One thing did surprise me ... the amount of blue within. (sorry)


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*Andi said:


> As for Texas ... One thing did surprise me ... the amount of blue within. (sorry)


Its all the cities, and I think they are going to be pretty bad when it hits the fan.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Padre said:


> Its all the cities, and I think they are going to be pretty bad when it hits the fan.


True ... and I agree ...


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

invision said:


> The thing is, if it goes belly up, we all will be in the same boat financially... My customers will stop paying, I will stop paying vendors... It's a vicious cycle...


Exactly. Society works, day in and day out, until it doesn't work anymore and when that happens matters will spin out of control very quickly.

Look at how society ceased functioning in the aftermath of Sandy. Sure, that was a physical disaster but the result was still a disruption of the interdependencies which keep society functioning. You provide a service to your clients and it's quite likely a mission critical service so when you are forced to withdraw your service their mission critical feature becomes unstable and ceases to function. Ripples work outwards very quickly at that point.

Slow decline becomes normalized and then something happens and we're off the cliff. When the issue becomes food and water and sanitation and health care, then we're really in trouble.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Go to www.usdebtclock.org and crunch a bit of the numbers and see what they add up to, things such as the liabilities added to Currency and Credit Derivatives and pertinent Debts and you will see that the total debt exceeds $1 quadrillion. If dollars were soup I doubt you would be able to tell what kind of soup it used to be. In the research my wife and I have done for the past 12 years I see most of the blame can be focused on the birth of the Federal Reserve which was conceived by the global bankers starting in 1910 on Jekyll Island , Georgia and birthed in 1913. G. Edward Griffin wrote a book on the FED called "The Creature from Jekyll Island". It's an important read if you really want to understand the fractional banking system. Sadly we so soon have forgotten the warning of Thomas Jefferson of the dangers of a central banking system. If we were on a Constitutional monetary system as we should be there would never be more than about 2% to 4% more paper dollars than gold to back it. The fox is truly in charge of the hen house. The big mistake we seem to make is blaming rising prices when the reality is the dollar is being debased. Gold, by weight, on the other hand purchases much the equivalent items it did in early Roman times.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Londoner said:


> I can tell you exactly what will happen and how it will happen and over what time scale. The answer is NOTHING over the short term NOT MUCH overthe medium term and over the long term a slow decline.


I think you underestimate the danger of debt, particularly US debt. Lots of countries have defaulted and experienced more or less painful debt crises, but none of them are the world reserve currency. So many assets are tied up in dollars that a dollar collapse would result in a global financial collapse as people try to figure out where to go from having most of their wealth destroyed in an instant. What we are talking about is not simple economic decline.



> The US and Europe are in a very similar position. They let their "engine room" economic generators decline because in the short term cheap TVs clothes and consumer goods from abroad seemed too good to miss out on. People blame the banking crisis but that was just a side show.


The banking crisis has not yet even begun in earnest because the ultimate banking Crisis is the FED crisis that is coming. The only think cheaper products has managed to do is fool people about the diminishing value of their dollars. I don't want businesses to stay in business because they are local, what good is it to me if they make the same product for more money. If there is a quality benefit or some sort of psychic benefit that matters to me then I would buy local, but an economy doesn't grow by protecting itself from competition, it grows by people using their brain to win the battle of competition or, if they can not, to think of new types of goods or services to bring to market.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

hiwall said:


> I think 6 months to two years. If/ when we have a total collapse, I can not imagine why Texas would be better off than any other mostly rural state.


Texas will be better off because it has succession in its constitution and its blood. Just like for us, the survival of an individual or a state depends on quickly wheeling to respond to changing situations. The more adaptable you are the better prepared you are and by definition local government is more adaptable. Thus if the currency fails, and then the government, you want some government, some where to quickly act to pick up the pieces. That means not depending on the Federal Government, that means ignoring federal laws that have become obsolete, it means coining currency, providing for a common defense, making diplomatic deals with foreign powers, etc.

More than any other state Texas has the spirit, the attitude, to survive.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Padre said:


> More than any other state Texas has the spirit, the attitude, to survive.


Don't forget the oil. I seem to recall something around 30-40% of total US refining capacity is in Texas & Louisiana. I wonder how much is in all those blue states?

Then there's the treaty between the US and the ROT. Texas can split itself into 5 parts so we'll have a total of 10 senators. I look for something like that to happen before we eventually sucede.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I sell tooling, forgings, bronze and gears to the companies involved in the mining industry in West Virginia, While calling around down there Friday people I talked too told me their economy hit the wall on Tuesday after the election results were given. Nobody down there is buying anything.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Marcus said:


> Don't forget the oil. I seem to recall something around 30-40% of total US refining capacity is in Texas & Louisiana. I wonder how much is in all those blue states?
> 
> Then there's the treaty between the US and the ROT. Texas can split itself into 5 parts so we'll have a total of 10 senators. I look for something like that to happen before we eventually sucede.


That treaty beceame null and void when Texas withdrew from the Union. What matters are the conditions imposed upon readmission and there were, to the best of my recollection, no such conditions attached to the readmission.

However, if Texas and Congress agree to partition, there is no limit to how Texas could be split up.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Not as well educated in economics as some I have only my "gut" feelings based on what I see and hear. My observations lead me to "feel" that a collapse is imminent and has been for a while. I think at the rate of decline that it should have actually already happened but with the momentum we have it is probably closer to two years. but since we are like wil-e-coyote and have ran well out past the edge of the cliff it could happen at any moment we will look down and see we have ran out of ground to run on and will quickly and helplessly fall straight down. But like coyote I think we will run a bit farther as the bulk are still happily oblivious to exactly how serious the situation is and those that do know aren't going to let them know cuz they are still slicing the pie trying to get the bigger peice for themselves. 

I personally feel Texas would be the place to be I think they or them and a few of their neighbors are very likely to form their own country and will do quite well for themselves. I think they will fall the least and will maintain more normalcy. But even within there will have to be some serious upheavals Alot of the blue will need to be "Mopped Up" and they are gonna have to be very unfriendly to illegal immigration and that will be at both borders south and the new northern boarders. I wish I had a prayer of convincing my SO to spend our money on a place in Texas I would much rather move there than move again within this sstate. I don't want to end up being one of the hopeful imigrants wanting ingress to texas after the fact. *SIGH* sucks to be me  I just hope we can agree on somthing suitably rural and maybe even off grid if it can be found.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*My mistake*



Marcus said:


> A slight correction to Bill's post.
> The US Treasury holds the auctions.
> Last year (2011), the Federal Reserve bought 61% of *all US Teasuries sold at auction.*
> This buying by the Fed is indicative that we're producing more debt than the market wants to buy. In a free market, the interest rates would rise to compensate buyers for their risk (as has happened in Spain.) Since that isn't happening due to Fed action, when the Fed can no longer afford to buy the excess, we will have a failed Treasury auction.
> ...


I got in a little hurry . you are correct the Treasury holds the bond auctions and for about a year or better the Fed has been buying most of them.

Kind of like loaning yourself money !


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*It means more*



Marcus said:


> TY for elaborating on my point and eplaining the concept better than I did.
> 
> An easy analogy of this:
> 
> ...


It means you can't put your investments in anything that pays off in dollars!


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I firmly believe we have about 2 years left before the collapse. We can keep delaying the obvious but it will hit and when it does we are in for nasty times. In the next 18 months the war on coal will be wrapped up with sky high electric rates along with gas (both auto and home types) and that will be the death blow to our decimated economy.


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## HillbillyPrep (Mar 24, 2012)

oldvet said:


> The only reason that SS or SSI payments are "hurting us" is because TPTB in DC in all of their infinite wisdom chose to dip into the social security fund, *steal and spend all of the money set aside for SS and SSI recipients* :gaah:


Add to that the rampant abuse of the welfare and SSI programs. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a dozen perfectly healthy people on the draw. They have not even held a job. I had to fight like a mad dog to get disability from Social Security with all of the documented proof of my injuries. Folks go down to apply for SSI and tell them they are alcoholic or sit at the hearing and piss their pants, acting crazy and they get approved right away.
As for the economy, QE, bonds and all of that other stuff is way over this hicks head. I just keep prepping.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> why not cash in your million mutual funds so you can live on your own money and not ours, kinda give the good old US a helping hand when she's down? SSI is one of the entitlements that is hurting us.


Hum.... 250,000 not a million, big difference .... It would be gone in no time. You know that, I know that, so why make such a comment?


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## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

To the op.

Do the simple math. It will yield your answer.
Current "debt" 16 trillion / 300 million people.
or 
You can go here and see the debt clock.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

You will note that SS/SSI and Medicare won't be paid with valuable dollars. Because it can't. Math doesn't lie, have feelings, or care if your affected. The rubber has already met the road and the economic situation deteriorates as we discuss this thread. Do you expect tanks in the streets? Do you expect rioting? Bank runs? Who knows when or if that will happen. But I know the economic prospects for next year and less favorable than this year.

Here is a nice break down from Carl Denninger from the market ticker.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=213787

P.S. Before it starts.. What math shows can't be paid won't.

P.P.S 401K's are a ponzi scheme as well get your cash out. It operates on the same principle as S.S. AKA, A new sucker putting money in the till.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

I agree with the others regarding hyperinflation, but from a security perspective the resulting gradual decline might be worse than a sudden "boom!".

Most of us rural folk live in relatively low crime areas. Many of us don't bother locking our doors or our cars. We can leave tools out in view of the road and find them there in the morning. In other words, we are spoiled and not very "savvy". That makes us vulnerable. If someone comes to our door, we open it with a smile, not with a gun. We'll all have to keep our nose to the wind and change our friendly ways at some point. 

As more and more people become angry, hungry and desperate because of the dollar's reduced purchasing power, the bad guys will become even more predatory and the normally passive, unprepared sheeple will be more willing to participate in protests-turned-riots. The gubermint will respond with increasing force, ultimately resulting in martial law. Martial law will eventually be rescinded, but many of our cherished liberties will never be restored.

Watch England. We will follow their collapse, probably within a year of their of their demise.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

stanb999 said:


> To the op.
> 
> Do the simple math. It will yield your answer.
> Current "debt" 16 trillion / 300 million people.
> ...


A far far far more important number on the debt clock is the unfunded liabilities. These are the long term debt, like we think of a mortgage. Based on some other things I've read, that number is understated by over 100 Trillion. It's more like 220T in unfunded liabilities.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

First forgive my formatting, im not on my pc.
a few thoughts.
i have to address one thing first, padre, thats an incredibly huge assumption that the abortions eoimnated productive workers. think of the bulk of people that get abortions and ill think that maybe 25% of them may have been 'productive'. id prefer not to go off on that tangent but you see my point.
kej is right About normalcy bias, people will not accept anything is wrong until its too late.

as for a prediction, noone can know. i dont think anything will happen within 6 mnths, but iysbpossible. i think it will take some kind of black swan event. we can kick the can for a long long time, just look at japan. it will start out slow, then snowball out of control. there will be a lot of trigger events that could happen, but on our level we would expeience things like a bank holiday, a zero added to the currency, things like that. the gubt and fed will do all intheir power to keep the system going, it will be the people who decide ultimately that the money is worthless..
as for the thought about gubt payments, those payments wil be the last to stop because when they do, thatbis truly game over. thats when the crap starts as in riots inthe streets. the baks would have Lready shut down, so none will be any worse off than the rest of us.
i cant speak to texas, but im pretty sure that in a time of massive calamity, they wouldnt be allowed to secede because of the oil and refineries.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I see a total meltdown coming that Texas won't be immune from. You have the Fed monetizing some or all of the new debt being created. Plus an additional $50 billion in new dollars created out of thin air. I believe that panic selling of the dollar could start at any time. It could start today, tomorrow, next week, or next month. I don't see how we go another year this way.

I'm also a believer in a sudden collapse. In other words, something could trigger a run on the dollar and the dollar could lose most of its value in a single week. Possible a single day or even a single hour. China could dump all their dollars when the Asian markets open on a Sunday night. We could wake up Monday morning to $53 a gallon gas prices and $20 loafs of bread.

There are a number of possible triggers. Greece is running out of money. I don't know if the Europeans will give them more. Now that Obama has won reelection he's free to start World War 3 with Iran, Syria, Russia, and China. We already have a couple of air craft carriers in the area around Iran.

Eventually the eurozone will implode. After the euro dies all the world's focus will be on the dollar. And then the dollar will die too.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Who would benefit most from financial and civil chaos in, say, the next four years? Hmmmm. Let me think. Thinking...thinking.....thinking.



OBAMAO! Yes. ObaMao and his revolutionary Marxist thug advisors would be in the drivers seat, wouldn't they? The country would be scared $hitless (and stupid), the sheeple would be screaming, "DO SOMETHING! DO SOMETHING!" so Congress would fall in line and yield to ObaMao's leadership. Martial law would be imposed to a (mostly) grateful nation and draconian executive orders would be squirted out like poop from a main sewerage line break.

When the dust finally settles, we'll be looking at one another with stupified looks wondering how we allowed The Constitution and The Bill of Rights to be burned right under our nose.

History is a wonderful teacher if only we'd learn from it.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

my opinion is that 6 months to a year is not going to see the financial collapse UNLESS we see some kind of outside influence that is too catastrophic for us to absorb along with all of the damage we continue to do to ourselves.

Many others have commented on the Fed printing money, buying it's own debt, etc... I think Argentina is a very good example. There are youtubes that show how the money of the country was stolen from the citizens and given to the banks. The difference in Argentina's recovery and ours is that Argentina collapsed in a vacuum, they didnt bring anyone else down with them and others profited from their demise and their rebuilding... if we go down, I think it's pretty much assured that we're sinking with Europe and China all at the same time, or so close together that it will virtually be the same. There wont be a lot of power structure in place to do any kind of global trade, and there will be a lot of immediate in your face problems like starving people willing to do anything for their next meal regardless of who they have to take it from or what happens during those actions.

Lots of people "think" they "own" their houses, but if that mortgage is really held by Freddie/Fannie then your house is in fact owned by the government. Think you "own" your house because the mortgage is paid? What happens if you don't pay the property tax? If they can take it from you with a written order from a judge you dont own it. If they can manufacture a written order because they pass the laws, and they control the judges, you dont own it.

A lot of things seem to really be starting to boil, not just abroad with Spain, Greece, France, etc, but right here at home too as pointed out repeatedly in this thread. Instead of one big axe swinging down on our necks its like we're being pushed off a plank into a blender. 


Beans Bullets and Bandaids


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

DJgang said:


> Hum.... 250,000 not a million, big difference .... It would be gone in no time. You know that, I know that, so why make such a comment?


how did you get in the conservation?? or it it just your nature to stick your nose in everything?


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

horseman09 said:


> Who would benefit most from financial and civil chaos in, say, the next four years? Hmmmm. Let me think. Thinking...thinking.....thinking.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More conspiracy theory nonsense imo...Obama didn't start this financial crisis and he surely doesn't want the country to collapse...oh and you forgot as most do here the blame for our condition not only goes back decades but Congress, the Federal Reserve and plenty of others have contributed to it and are not doing enough about fixing it!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Marcus said:


> Don't forget the oil. I seem to recall something around 30-40% of total US refining capacity is in Texas & Louisiana. I wonder how much is in all those blue states?
> 
> Then there's the treaty between the US and the ROT. Texas can split itself into 5 parts so we'll have a total of 10 senators. I look for something like that to happen before we eventually sucede.


The government won't let Texas secede. I don't care what treaties were signed in the past. I don't care that the federal government is a creation of the states. The federal government has become the supreme power and authority. The powers that be aren't letting anybody get away once we have martial law and a collapse.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> how did you get in the conservation?? or it it just your nature to stick your nose in everything?


Yeah I'm a woman ain't I? :congrat::sssh::ignore:

Some think we should be seen not heard.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

db2469 said:


> More conspiracy theory nonsense imo...Obama didn't start this financial crisis and he surely doesn't want the country to collapse...oh and you forgot as most do here the blame for our condition not only goes back decades but Congress, the Federal Reserve and plenty of others have contributed to it and are not doing enough about fixing it!


No Obama didn't start this crisis but his Marxist ideals fired by Saul Alinsky and Bill Ayers brought the crisis to a point worse than all previous presidents and if you research on the things Alinsky supported they are not conspiracy theory nonsense, he was all for the destruction of economic systems such as we have for the express purpose of collapse. The people that run the Treasury and FED in the Bush term except for Paulson are still in the Obama team and if you look at their connection to this currency mess they, Paulson and a number of others should be in prison. The root cause is the formation of the FED as I already mentioned. The FED is not a function of the government it is a private banking system and therefore not Constitutional. If we had the Constitutional monetary system still in place we would not be in such debt as we are now and that was the desire of the banksters in forming the FED and the centralized banking systems around the world.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

db2469 said:


> More conspiracy theory nonsense imo...Obama didn't start this financial crisis and he surely doesn't want the country to collapse...oh and you forgot as most do here the blame for our condition not only goes back decades but Congress, the Federal Reserve and plenty of others have contributed to it and are not doing enough about fixing it!


What concerns most is....does Obama have the knowledge to help? To make the right decisions?


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

BillS said:


> The government won't let Texas secede. I don't care what treaties were signed in the past. I don't care that the federal government is a creation of the states. The federal government has become the supreme power and authority. The powers that be aren't letting anybody get away once we have martial law and a collapse.


Texas may not be alone. There have been talks here in Nebraska about seceding. I seam to remember last summer that other states here the middle of the country have talked about it. The map of possible states that would pull out cut the country in half. To be honest, I don't hold much hope in it going all the way, at least not now.

BTW I'm very interested in if Ben Bernanke resigns. If he does then it tells me that he has lost confidence in his plans and the governments willingness to fix the problem.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

db2469 said:


> More conspiracy theory nonsense imo...Obama didn't start this financial crisis and he surely doesn't want the country to collapse...oh and you forgot as most do here the blame for our condition not only goes back decades but Congress, the Federal Reserve and plenty of others have contributed to it and are not doing enough about fixing it!


db, respectfully, your response reflects a lack of objectivity. In your many posts, when you are unable to deal with the realities of ObaMao's actions and the admitted political leanings of virtually all of his advisors and appointees, your argument apparently defaults to what shrinks call "projection". That is, you deflect attention from the issue that you cannot rationally defend and point to a different issue; it is a diversion from the topic. Hey. This is a friendly, open forum, so if that's what makes you happy, it's OK with me, but it doesn't do much for an intelligent exchange of ideas or opinions.

Having said that, at no point in my previous post did I indicate who was at fault. My post dealt entirely with who would benefit the most from a national collapse.

I must say, I enjoy a good, hearty, intelligent, *civil* debate, but I almost never experience one when discussing issues with liberals. Typically, when liberals and children cannot defend their actions or opinions, they tend to become hostile, emotional and sometimes even hysterical.

Let's hope our discussion is an exception.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

No personal offense intended HM....I just say what I say and let it go at that as I'm not here to pick fights or have time for debates....others give their opinions and I give mine and move on...you're a fellow PA'er so you're not all bad! I've probably been in your area before as I lived in Scranton for many years before moving here..


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## nomadjanet (Mar 28, 2011)

After the first quarter of 2013 there are some things that will come out in the quarterly reports of some large players that will speed up the collapse. It will not be instant and overnnight but it will be fast tracked at that point.
As far as Texas, the last 4 years we have been left out to dry by the feds. When the cartel can travel with immunity and our boarder control is punished for going after them and 500 homes can burn down in Bastrop and the feds say ho-hum. We are not full of movie stars like california or full of east coast intellectuals so we are not important to O. We are going it alone down here and still paying our federal taxes. We are a net positive state to the feds we pay in more than we get back. But that will change, now that we know for sure that the Dem's intead to use the hispanic population to destroy the rest of us we may all stop being independant. I am all for crashing the system; O wants us all dependant on the feds, lets go with it.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

No way Obama or any one else can stop the fall of the USA. I do know that our Congressman have a super-human ability to kick-the-can-down-the-road. So instead of a few months they might keep us going for a year or even two. But some things they can not control and the collapse could happen at any time. People in DC on both sides never really talk about the huge debt we have. What's the point? They can do nothing about the debt. They can't even slow down the deficit. If America goes down there is likely to be a horde of common Mexican people come across our border. Is Texas going to stop that? Prep now and hope for the best.


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## mercygirl87 (Feb 21, 2011)

BrianAz said:


> Ahh, the good old opinion of the young. No offense, but it's not the older generation that's responsible. I think you need to broaden your horizons and think bigger picture. We have had a government that doesn't represent it's citizenry for much longer than you may be thinking.
> 
> FWIW- I'm in between. I'm in my mid-40's and it wasn't until a few years ago that I believe I started to see the "bigger" picture. I used to believe I could trust my government and that elections mattered.


Same here, 45 years old. Nothing matters now. The takers outnumber the makers, and we are screwed. There will never be another conservative in the white house. soon, the house will be taken over by the liberals too. 
Our lives are FOREVER ruined by the results of this election. Just watch and see. The muslim terrorist reigns.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

It's hard to believe how far the clowns in Washington can kick the can down the road, but there are so many things going on in the world that they can not control (An EMP attack, war in Iran and the closing of the gulf a bear raid on the stock market, another terrorist attack etc.etc.) a collapse could come at any time.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Jarhead0311 said:


> It's hard to believe how far the clowns in Washington can kick the can down the road, but there are so many things going on in the world that they can not control (An EMP attack, war in Iran and the closing of the gulf a bear raid on the stock market, another terrorist attack etc.etc.) a collapse could come at any time.


I like the things they can't control and to me the sun is a rather large one, if it pooped out a CME like the one in 1859 well who knows what all the effects could be. Someone mentioned the earth needing a reset, that might just be enough to hit the button.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

*The Fly in The Ointment....*

I hate to throw this in, but now that the election's over, Israel has no further reason to wait. The current administration seems bent on keeping with it's current policies on Iran, so Israel sees an increased sense of urgency in carrying out a preemptive strike.
May God help us.....


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Not really too worried about Isreal, I'm pretty sure we have never lulled them into a false sense of security and I would be willing to bet they DO have a PLAN to deal with every single jew hatin muslim on their sector of the world. I hate this administration has treated them so shitty but to be honest if we had left em alone all these years not just this asministration I think the middle east would already be a much quieter neighborhood. So I"ll worry about us I think israel has their issues undercontrol I think our president is going to be suprised as well that he has let them out of the bag and siced em on his brethren.


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## AuroraHawk (Sep 12, 2012)

lotsoflead said:


> I said nothing about SS, it's the millions getting SSI who did not pay a dime into the system and the thousands who were going to retire in a month yet they faked an injury and got SSI because it pays more. I know at least 50 people right now drawing SSI and they are under 50 yrs of age, some are under 15 and their parents are getting an SSI ck to take care of them.
> 
> I think we should do away with SSI and just stick with SS for ther people who paid into it.( even illegals can get it ). I got working papers thru the school in 1951 to work on my parents farm because the law said I had to, I paid SS from then til 2007, 56 yrs and get half what I should because the system is being robbed by people who never put in a dime.


I am one of those who are collecting SSI and I'm fighting for SSD. The maximum SSI for a single adult, with no dependents, is$698,00. IF I win the battle for SSD I will receive between $1300.00 and $1400.00 per month (based on what I paid in.). After paying into SS for over 30 years, living with family members for 2 years with only food stamps to pay for my food, living in a shelter for another 6 months, living in subsidized housing on $300.00 and food stamps for 2 years, I finally started receiving that $698.00 of SSI.

I would rather get two new hips, two new knees and return to driving OTR. Does anyone think that Ill be able to get those anytime soon, from Medicaid?


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## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

AuroraHawk said:


> I am one of those who are collecting SSI and I'm fighting for SSD. The maximum SSI for a single adult, with no dependents, is$698,00. IF I win the battle for SSD I will receive between $1300.00 and $1400.00 per month (based on what I paid in.). After paying into SS for over 30 years, living with family members for 2 years with only food stamps to pay for my food, living in a shelter for another 6 months, living in subsidized housing on $300.00 and food stamps for 2 years, I finally started receiving that $698.00 of SSI.
> 
> I would rather get two new hips, two new knees and return to driving OTR. Does anyone think that Ill be able to get those anytime soon, from Medicaid?


I doubt many feel your the issue or would wish you to suffer. Really only heartless bastards.
However mathematically the situation is untenable.


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## thoughtsofTHAtmom (Apr 21, 2011)

BillM said:


> Do not expect a warning from the government. The day before the banks close, they will assure the public , every thing is under control.


This is huge and people need to realize this. The day before excrement goes flying towards cooling devices, everyone in power will say that things are just peachy. They won't want anyone to panic...until they have no other choice.

Do I think things will fall apart in 6 months? No. I think things will continue to get worse, but I don't think a collapse is right around the corner.

In my opinion, we'll know the end is alarmingly near when the payments for welfare programs start getting cut &/or stop altogether. That will be our first sign to "get what you need now because we don't have much more time".


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> This is huge and people need to realize this. The day before excrement goes flying towards cooling devices, everyone in power will say that things are just peachy. They won't want anyone to panic...until they have no other choice.
> 
> Do I think things will fall apart in 6 months? No. I think things will continue to get worse, but I don't think a collapse is right around the corner.
> 
> In my opinion, we'll know the end is alarmingly near when the payments for welfare programs start getting cut &/or stop altogether. That will be our first sign to "get what you need now because we don't have much more time".


Waiting that long as a warning sign would be extremely dangerous... I think the smart money is to watch not only the markets, both equity and commodities, unemployment numbers, but also constantly keeping informed both through US news and foreign news sources...

The thing is there are so many potential triggers right now... You do have Israel/Iran, then there is EU/Greece, not to mention the fiscal cliff as well.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

DJgang said:


> Yeah I'm a woman ain't I? :congrat::sssh::ignore:
> 
> Some think we should be seen not heard.


That's not true!

.... I AM wondering, however, why you would have a computer in the kitchen. Better be barefoot, too! And making a sammich! ; )


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> The day before excrement goes flying towards cooling devices, everyone in power will say that things are just peachy. They won't want anyone to panic...until they have no other choice.


It's interesting that you mentioned this because if you listen to the Nightly Business News that is exactly what they have been preaching for most of this year and Obama has been saying the economy is on the upswing, car and home sales are up and there has been more hiring. However there are things not factored into this and the first one is pent up buying, I imagine that a lot of people have put off buying a lot of the more expensive things in their budgets during the first years of Obama's term and in fact my wife and I have done this but one can only hold out so long on worn out items before they break down. Then there is the other factor, buying things before inflation gets so bad we can no longer afford them. And then there is this little twist, some building products are becoming unavailable so it's not just pent up buying it now becomes panic buying. The employment factor is all the wonderful jobs numbers just before the election and nothing was mentioned that a great deal of that hiring is for the Christmas buying period, which after Christmas and gift return days those jobs will be gone. Then there is this issue, long term waiting for things go South fatigue. The "I've been waiting for years and nothing has happen and it doesn't look like it will anytime soon." attitude. My answer to this is with the size and velocity of the debt here and around the world one seemingly small happening could trigger the house of cards to fall so don't get complacent. Think like it could be any second but live life to the fullest because other factors could put the whole thing generations to come. If what we have set aside for the SHTF situation is of the highest quality we can afford it can then be passed to family or friends when we are no longer able to us it. Hopefully those to who it has been passed realize the SHTF could easily happen in their generation. I really think it will be in ours and I don't see it being very far off as there are just too many things converging toward a breakdown. The pistols' hammer is cocked and the hair trigger has pressure on it.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Anyone care to comment on the 86 new business regulations PER DAY that Obama has put into place since election??? Really 86 per day... When do I have time to run my business when i need to constantly see if something important has been put in place regarding my area of business?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

invision said:


> Anyone care to comment on the 86 new business regulations PER DAY that Obama has put into place since election??? Really 86 per day... When do I have time to run my business when i need to constantly see if something important has been put in place regarding my area of business?


I thought it was 46. I could be wrong. Are you sure that it's 86? Either way, ignorance of the law is not an excuse when you are caught for non-compliance.

The thing is, the perfectly illustrates the liberal conceit of believing that a liberal bureaucrat in Washington knows what's best for everyone all over the country.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Turtle said:


> That's not true!
> 
> .... I AM wondering, however, why you would have a computer in the kitchen. Better be barefoot, too! And making a sammich! ; )


Haha... I can do it! It's a proven fact that women can multitask better than men. And I never wear shoes in the house! Now what kind of sammich ya want there sweetie????


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## thoughtsofTHAtmom (Apr 21, 2011)

Viking said:


> It's interesting that you mentioned this because if you listen to the Nightly Business News that is exactly what they have been preaching for most of this year and Obama has been saying the economy is on the upswing, car and home sales are up


My husband & I have been in absolute awe that they are building again here in Vegas. We were surprised when ONE neighborhood went up. Now, there are 6 neighborhoods going up on our side of town alone. We're in one small area in Henderson and there are SIX neighborhoods going up in our area alone!!! We still have houses upon houses upon houses sitting empty because of foreclosure. And they're BUILDING?!? And our area is not unique.

Then, we find out that our landlord is letting our house be foreclosed on so we go out to look at houses. Should we buy? Rent? Realtors tell us that bidding wars are happening again. Houses that were foreclosed on with outstanding mortgages of $400K weren't selling at $150K. Now, people are bidding them up to $175K or $200K. Um. What? Understand that many of these houses are completely stripped some with a good bit of damage. They need new kitchens & bathrooms. They need new flooring. They need new paint...and in some cases need repair to the walls. They need new doors. Pools & hot tubs are extensively damaged from sitting empty or without care for 2+ years...if not from actual damage by the owners who were foreclosed on.

I'm sorry, but it just makes no sense. The economy is not THAT much better here. People are still losing jobs. They're still being foreclosed on. How is this happening? And again? Were they not here the first time we crashed?

Okay. Rant over. Long story short: What's happening again here...the ignorance that people are exhibiting...is exactly WHY our economy will crash. It has to.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> I'm sorry, but it just makes no sense. The economy is not THAT much better here. People are still losing jobs. They're still being foreclosed on. How is this happening? And again? Were they not here the first time we crashed?
> 
> Okay. Rant over. Long story short: What's happening again here..*.the ignorance that people are exhibiting*...is exactly WHY are economy will crash. It has to.


It's only ignorant if they turn out to be wrong. There is no timetable which tells us when the market hits a high or low or when a turn will happen for the economy. This means that different people are going to have different criteria for their own investment decisions. If prices fall no lower and begin rising, then they bought near the bottom. Of course, they could lose their shirts.

I'd rather have a million people making decisions for themselves rather than have the same million people following a trend.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> I thought it was 46. I could be wrong. Are you sure that it's 86? Either way, ignorance of the law is not an excuse when you are caught for non-compliance.
> 
> The thing is, the perfectly illustrates the liberal conceit of believing that a liberal bureaucrat in Washington knows what's best for everyone all over the country.


Heck, it might be 46... I just read it 10 minutes before I posted... And to be honest, I haven't been keeping up cause of lack of time, and to tired to care what he dictates.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> My husband & I have been in absolute awe that they are building again here in Vegas. We were surprised when ONE neighborhood went up. Now, there are 6 neighborhoods going up on our side of town alone. We're in one small area in Henderson and there are SIX neighborhoods going up in our area alone!!! We still have houses upon houses upon houses sitting empty because of foreclosure. And they're BUILDING?!? And our area is not unique.
> 
> Then, we find out that our landlord is letting our house be foreclosed on so we go out to look at houses. Should we buy? Rent? Realtors tell us that bidding wars are happening again. Houses that were foreclosed on with outstanding mortgages of $400K weren't selling at $150K. Now, people are bidding them up to $175K or $200K. Um. What? Understand that many of these houses are completely stripped some with a good bit of damage. They need new kitchens & bathrooms. They need new flooring. They need new paint...and in some cases need repair to the walls. They need new doors. Pools & hot tubs are extensively damaged from sitting empty or without care for 2+ years...if not from actual damage by the owners who were foreclosed on.
> 
> ...


Serious question, how are the casinos doing? I have a few friends who are former dealers that are now in MS and dying to go back, but had to leave due to economy... Would love to give them some good news...


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Hmmm another can of worms. I'd think from what I've seen that it should be getting good again since the entitlement folks were a large percentage of the gamblers being the ones with free money to blow. But then I don't go to the casinos myself get most of my info second hand from my parents who take my grandma there for dinner and bingo she (Grandma) really has the bug for Bingo and penny slots and suprisingly seems to win more than she loses.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

DJgang said:


> Haha... I can do it! It's a proven fact that women can multitask better than men. And I never wear shoes in the house! Now what kind of sammich ya want there sweetie????


Uh oh. 
May I be so nosey as to inquire how many (if any) 29th birthdays you've celebrated?


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

I am a Texan of 49 years; both parents are Texans and the line continues further. While most Texans are very independant minded and believe in conservative values, in all of our major cities we have multitudes of liberals. Texas voted Red, the blue you see are the larger cities full of the 47%. For years we have had liberals move to Texas for the good jobs and great economy. However once here they immediatly began pushing for the same laws, regulations, etc. that they had in their previous state; the state they left due to high taxes, high crime, poor economy, no jobs, etc.

Texas will make it on its own, but in order to correct the wrongs that have piled up for years will mean the rural Texans will have to take on the inner city liberals as well as the suburb 'progressives' (they think that sounds better than liberals). After that we will have to take on the hordes of illegals that are here and the ones that continue to come. They run from Mexico to here and then want us to change to the culture and laws of Mexico. Gee, it sure seems like liberals and illegals think the same.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Marcus said:


> Uh oh.
> May I be so nosey as to inquire how many (if any) 29th birthdays you've celebrated?


actually just one and I might celebrate another one in a few months! 

seem like MSM is starting to report on these seceding petitions, I'm seeing them on FB now too....noticed Rand Paul signed the Kentucky one (or might have been a liberal posing as him)


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

jsriley5 said:


> Hmmm another can of worms. I'd think from what I've seen that it should be getting good again since the entitlement folks were a large percentage of the gamblers being the ones with free money to blow. But then I don't go to the casinos myself get most of my info second hand from my parents who take my grandma there for dinner and bingo she (Grandma) really has the bug for Bingo and penny slots and suprisingly seems to win more than she loses.


Will the casinos not send someone a 1099 of their earnings? I am allergic to 1099s.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

DJgang said:


> Will the casinos not send someone a 1099 of their earnings? I am allergic to 1099s.


Actually you'd get a W2-G for gambling winnings of $600 or more. Most people lose more than they win anyway.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw2g.pdf


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

semperscott said:


> I am a Texan of 49 years; both parents are Texans and the line continues further. While most Texans are very independant minded and believe in conservative values, in all of our major cities we have multitudes of liberals. Texas voted Red, the blue you see are the larger cities full of the 47%. For years we have had liberals move to Texas for the good jobs and great economy. However once here they immediatly began pushing for the same laws, regulations, etc. that they had in their previous state; the state they left due to high taxes, high crime, poor economy, no jobs, etc.


 This is a problem with many states, I saw this many years ago in Washington state when I realized where the liberal voting block of certain corridors were fed entitlement moneys the vote totals overcame the rural conservative majority of land mass, i.e. farms, ranches, oil fields and etc. Here in Oregon we have the "Progressive" voting block that runs from Eugene to Portland and the rest of the state over the last 30+ years has been infected with a largely Californian influx of people that escaped their state only to desire to instill the same horrible laws they left because of, I tell people from California they are welcome here but please, please leave that foul politics and laws where they came from.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

DJgang said:


> Will the casinos not send someone a 1099 of their earnings? I am allergic to 1099s.


Ya know I really don't even know about that stuff, She seems to win more than she loses but Grandma isn't exactly a high roller at the bingo and penny slots.

Yeah Viking another case of they Think everyone else should be subject to these laws but not them so they move to escape it but can' t help thinking how much better off THEY would be if everybody else had to .................................and on and on they will eventually run out of states to spoil unless we get things fixed and put a bounty on em. Not sure there ought not be a bounty on Californian and Illinoians anyway. (Ducks before anyone can get a clear shot)


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## thoughtsofTHAtmom (Apr 21, 2011)

invision said:


> Serious question, how are the casinos doing? I have a few friends who are former dealers that are now in MS and dying to go back, but had to leave due to economy... Would love to give them some good news...


I don't really keep on top of that as it's not relevant to what we do. But a quick search shows that the answer is yes and no. Revenue at the casinos is up...but the bulk of their revenue isn't coming from gaming.

This article talks about the revenues being up in September (by 6% over the same period last year): http://www.8newsnow.com/story/20041319/nevada-gambling-revenues-up-3-percent-in-september

This one, talks about how the revenue IS up...but it's not coming from gaming: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov/10/gaming-trend-continues/


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Viking said:


> This is a problem with many states, I saw this many years ago in Washington state when I realized where the liberal voting block of certain corridors were fed entitlement moneys the vote totals overcame the rural conservative majority of land mass, i.e. farms, ranches, oil fields and etc. Here in Oregon we have the "Progressive" voting block that runs from Eugene to Portland and the rest of the state over the last 30+ years has been infected with a largely Californian influx of people that escaped their state only to desire to instill the same horrible laws they left because of, I tell people from California they are welcome here but please, please leave that foul politics and laws where they came from.


Same here in PA. Most of the state is very rural with conservative values but the mostly liberal Philly/Pittsburgh corridor rules us.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

We need two fences here in Arizona. One on our border with Mexico and one on our border with California.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> I don't really keep on top of that as it's not relevant to what we do. But a quick search shows that the answer is yes and no. Revenue at the casinos is up...but the bulk of their revenue isn't coming from gaming.
> 
> This article talks about the revenues being up in September (by 6% over the same period last year): http://www.8newsnow.com/story/20041319/nevada-gambling-revenues-up-3-percent-in-september
> 
> This one, talks about how the revenue IS up...but it's not coming from gaming: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov/10/gaming-trend-continues/


It's not _gaming_. The way they take all your money and destroy their best customers is no game. It's _gambling_.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

BillS said:


> Actually you'd get a W2-G for gambling winnings of $600 or more. Most people lose more than they win anyway.
> 
> http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw2g.pdf


Actually it depends upon the state... LA for example - if you hit a jackpot on a slot machine, it must be a 1 spin total of $1,200 or more for the W2-G, same for MS, but in NC, they issue one for $600. Now poker tourneys they pay a part in chips, so they lower the actual W2-G... And if your playing a table game, you can cash out any amount without the W2-G....


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

BillS said:


> It's not gaming. The way they take all your money and destroy their best customers is no game. It's gambling.


Sorry poker is a sport... It's takes skill to beat your opponent not just gambling on luck... Now slut machines, absolutely 100% gambling...


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> I don't really keep on top of that as it's not relevant to what we do. But a quick search shows that the answer is yes and no. Revenue at the casinos is up...but the bulk of their revenue isn't coming from gaming.
> 
> This article talks about the revenues being up in September (by 6% over the same period last year): http://www.8newsnow.com/story/20041319/nevada-gambling-revenues-up-3-percent-in-september
> 
> This one, talks about how the revenue IS up...but it's not coming from gaming: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2012/nov/10/gaming-trend-continues/


Thanks for the links... Don't see how they are up, without the slot side being up... We never ever pay for anything in regards to our trips to casinos... Food, spa, suites, travel, shows, etc is all comp'd

Oh and before people spout off but look what you lose, not true, we have had to file state taxes for our winnings in NC, LA, MS, and NV every year we have been married and playing - 6 years straight winnings


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

IMHO it will come like a thief in the night. The leaders of the country will be on TV smiling and saying good things while they are locking the bank doors. Or one morning you will wake up and find out the "important" government and financial leaders can't be found because they took the money and ran to their safe place. Keep your doors locked, your guns loaded and your pantry stocked.


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## thoughtsofTHAtmom (Apr 21, 2011)

invision said:


> Thanks for the links... Don't see how they are up, without the slot side being up... We never ever pay for anything in regards to our trips to casinos... Food, spa, suites, travel, shows, etc is all comp'd


If you don't gamble, then you're not going to get comped things. That's the bottom line. You've got more and more people coming to Vegas...but not spending the bulk of their money on the slots like they used to. They come to see shows or go to restaurants. But as long as their money is not being used on gambling, they're not going to get free stuff like those who gamble do.


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## PennyPincher (Dec 5, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Well if you consider folks like me that worked and paid into social security for 45+ years and am now drawing social security as recipients of an entitlement, or that folks like BillM that I would imagine has worked all of his adult life until he became physically unable to and had to start drawing SSI is receiving entitlements also, then I guess you are correct in that I feel after having been forced to pay into that system all of my adult working life I feel I am ENTITLED to the retirement promised.
> 
> The only reason that SS or SSI payments are "hurting us" is because TPTB in DC in all of their infinite wisdom chose to dip into the social security fund, *steal and spend all of the money set aside for SS and SSI recipients* :gaah:


OldVet - I am assuming you are a military vet, not an animal vet. So let me start by saying, from one vet to another, thank you for your service.

As for all the people on SS currently or soon to be - the money is not yours. Your money was spent MANY MOONS AGO. You are literally living on the backs of the workers of today. I know that is a harsh thing to say.

You are right - you paid in to the system. You should be getting paid back. However, the facts are that your money is gone and you will likely get 3x what you paid in. Yes, you were promised it. But it's NOT there.

It's kind of like every parent that tells their kid there is a Santa Claus. We all know it is a lie but we perpetuate the lie. SS is no different. It's a ponzi scheme and we all want everyone to keep paying in, even though we know it's about to go bust, because we have paid in for so many years. No one wants to wake up and find out that Santa does not exist.

As for a 'fund', there never was one. The money goes into the general fund and the taxpayer gets a promise for the future. we need to end the cycle. I for one would be more than happy to continue the system for SS for those who paid into it and are at or near retirement and reduce the payments for people my age and younger at a reduced rate for a number of years to continue this system for those who really have no other option for building their retirement. Government has NO place in paying people for NOT WORKING. People did fine for generations before government got involved. We need to become less dependent.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Ah yes the good old "general fund", the black hole of unknown funds, the place from where when votes for sales taxes fail the government always say "Oh we found some money, we won't have to close down a government agency like we say we would if taxes weren't raised." What a sorry bunch of SOB's.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Penny I am Currently disabled and fighting for both my VA disability and SS Disability. That said I recognize and have said many times when I have gotten on my soap box that it was and is a unconstitutional tax and never ever sholuld have been alowed to happen. If they hadn't been sucking us dry all these years more people would have homes paid off, and nest eggs built for thier retirment and the ones that don't wouldnb't deserve it anyway. And I would be the first to vote for it to be abolished. Yeah it will pretty well destroy me if I dont eventually get it but I can live with that for the betterment of the country. I may or may not still have VA to fall back on and not sure that really should be done either, Retirments yeah but other than the medical care which millitary service does often make for unique medical issues, I think the Government needs to quit runing around looking for entitlements to give out at the taxpayers expense and stick to their mandates. Perhaps if they weren't allways in our pockets we could manage to take care of our own affairs and those to lazy to work will just have to lump it. I haven't any clue how I will make it if it is all taken away hopefully my Fiancee can keep the property paid and I can manage enough to at least help provide for our food.
No perfect answers but welfare and charity are not constitutional programs.


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## ChicoDaMan (Nov 6, 2012)

This is my $20.00 (inflation adjusted 2 cents):

The recipient class is outnumbering the provider class. The government is hitting the provider class harder to ensure the recipient class keeps voting their way. This includes small-medium businesses, who will close their doors d/t increased costs (taxes). The push for "Clean Energy" is increasing costs of conventional fuel (oil, coal) to a point where groceries will continue to climb and everyday Americans will have to choose between food and gas. Eventually the provider class will not be able to sustain to recipient class and we crash. Major cities blow up first with food riots and will quickly spill over to the surrounding suburbs. I can see this happening in the next 2-3 years. I pray I am wrong. 

To ask a question of you all: I don't have the funds to buy silver and gold. What is good for barter? I'm thinking bullets and alcohol. Anything else? Maybe gasoline?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

well at less than $35 and ounce if you can afford to put up much gasoline and keep it treated, or much alcohol you probably can invest in silver. If not Silver Eagles (one ounce coin) then junk silver (pre 1965 quarters dimes halfs and dollars) That said if you don't have much to spare you are probably better stocking more food first and always food will be a trade item. At in the imediate aftermath it will be the Biggest. But if it needs to be more portable I"d go with the silver. there is a barter thread somwhere where lots of folks chime in with what they feel will be best carter items lemme see if I can find it.

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/barter-items-2262/ there it is. Try that for barter suggestions and if you are interested in Silver try the finacial section below on the main page. Lots of smarter people have posted there with all kinds of info on silver and gold and other PM's


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

thoughtsofTHAtmom said:


> If you don't gamble, then you're not going to get comped things. That's the bottom line. You've got more and more people coming to Vegas...but not spending the bulk of their money on the slots like they used to. They come to see shows or go to restaurants. But as long as their money is not being used on gambling, they're not going to get free stuff like those who gamble do.


Let's put it this way, my wife missed 7 star status last year by under 10,000 points... One trip more and she would have it. Both she and I have diamond there, plus equal status at MGM, and a few other places...


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Well Dan ol buddy you sure opened this can of worms. As you know I'm in the same boat as you. DAV and SS and if the bottom falls out we make the titanic look like a kyack over turned.

But here's how I look at it. I can't do a damn thing about it. And I don't worry about it because I'm where I wanna be with who I wanna be with. 

If my checks don't come in I guess the credit union can come get my truck and trailer lol... I don't care because my perfect credit will be worthless and nobody will care.

But this I know!! I can hunt the woods around me for meat. we have chickens laying more eggs then we can eat. as does my prepper buddy next door.
Miz Sheri is growing a winter garden as we speak, damnedest thing ya ever seen. Ain't no such thang in Montana lol..

So if it all goes to hell who's gonna move us out of here? who's gonna repo my ride? 

I just refuse to worry about it. don't do a bit of good. I plan to hit Sams tomorrow for more LTS goods..Paper products and such.. long over due shoulda done it months ago.

I think we here in TX are gonna be pretty ok. There's work if you must lol and good weather and long growing seasons..

Just keep doing what yer doing buddy and don't sweat the small shit.. And I got yer six... 
HB


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Hozaybuck*



HozayBuck said:


> Well Dan ol buddy you sure opened this can of worms. As you know I'm in the same boat as you. DAV and SS and if the bottom falls out we make the titanic look like a kyack over turned.
> 
> But here's how I look at it. I can't do a damn thing about it. And I don't worry about it because I'm where I wanna be with who I wanna be with.
> 
> ...


Hozaybuck will be OK in TX as long as the Comanchie's don't make a come back !


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> Well Dan ol buddy you sure opened this can of worms. As you know I'm in the same boat as you. DAV and SS and if the bottom falls out we make the titanic look like a kyack over turned.
> 
> But here's how I look at it. I can't do a damn thing about it. And I don't worry about it because I'm where I wanna be with who I wanna be with.
> 
> ...


You are absolutely correct and what's really cool about your post is not only what you said but also the timing of it, because I got a call last night from an old friend of mine that I hadn't heard from in a few years.

He basically said the same thing as you did and reminded me that I am still very much welcome at his BOL if things get that bad. However (just like you said) he will just keep on keeping on and he also told me "I give up, I will deal with whatever comes my way, but I will no longer stress over it, I will just keep prepairing".

So I do believe I got the message from both of you and I do believe you both are quite right.

So as the song says "don't worry be happy", but prep your ass off.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I appreciate all of the answers and opinions I received. Some I agree with and naturally some I don't. However I will add that as I said in answer to HB's post and after giving it even more thought, I will "take a chill pill" and stop letting this crap consume me.

I will deal with whatever comes at me when it comes at me and I will no longer look for the "boogie man" under the bed or live in a Damn near constant state of stress worrying about this corrupt state of affairs we are now in. 

I will continue to prep and be prepaired to act on whatever the Governor of this "Great State" decides us Texans should do, if I believe it is the right thing according to the Constitution and my moral values. 

For those of you that feel that I and many others shouldn't be allowed to draw VA compensation, SS, or SSI and feel that we are a burden upon the current working class, well I won't repeat what I have said before, I will just say "get over it or live with it" because I don't really care if you don't like it and I ain't gonna ask TPTB to stop the payments and I ain't giving any back.


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## PennyPincher (Dec 5, 2011)

> For those of you that feel that I and many others shouldn't be allowed to draw VA compensation, SS, or SSI and feel that we are a burden upon the current working class, well I won't repeat what I have said before, I will just say "get over it or live with it" because I don't really care if you don't like it and I ain't gonna ask TPTB to stop the payments and I ain't giving any back.


Just to be clear, I do think you should get it. Everyone who has paid in should get it. You paid in in more ways than one. Keep taking it as long as it lasts because I am pretty darn sure it won't last. You will hopefully continue to receive yours. I am under no delusion that I will get mine or that my husband will get his, we are too young to expect it will still be around. It's a flawed system. If it were up to me every DAV would have 100% free medical care and adequate money to meet all their needs in a manner worthy of their service and sacrifice. My husband and I are both vets but never injured.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

oldvet said:


> For those of you that feel that I and many others shouldn't be allowed to draw VA compensation, SS, or SSI and feel that we are a burden upon the current working class, well I won't repeat what I have said before, I will just say "get over it or live with it" because I don't really care if you don't like it and I ain't gonna ask TPTB to stop the payments and I ain't giving any back.


I'm in the same boat as you are, VA comp and SS. I don't think most people believe we shouldn't draw it. I think they believe, rightfully so, that the money just won't be there. They wont cut off the checks, they just wont be worth anything.


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