# Electricity Needs



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

This may sound pretty amatureish to more experienced folks but when I purchased my generator; well actually my second one, I borrowed an amp meter from a friend and went around the house to find out how much things drew. Really simple and if you don't have someone to borrow from they are not expensive...certainly a lot cheaper than hiring an electrician(apps. for taking work away from the wire pullers). Sorry if this little story is a repeat of some one else's post.

Webster


----------



## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I'm not sure what your question, or comment, or are you just making a statement?

I have never used amps. I have always used watts (amps X voltage equals watts).


----------



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

Tweto said:


> I'm not sure what your question, or comment, or are you just making a statement?
> 
> I have never used amps. *I have always used watts (amps X voltage equals watts)*.


Just a comment...on how I came up with my needs in terms of the size of generator.

You are right of course but in order to come up with the watts anything uses you would need to know the amps it draws. Also it lets you know what can be combined to run off a 15 Amp circuit(without tripping the breaker on the genny). For example I found that our refrigerator drew about 18+ Amps to start but about 5.5 to run(Watts would be roughly 2160 and 660 respectively) The electric toaster draws nearly 10 Amps or almost 1200 watts while it is toasting. Our small deep freeze draws about 4 Amps to start but just under 1 Amp to run and so on.

Hope that is clearer.

Webster


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Webster said:


> For example I found that our refrigerator drew about 18+ Amps to start but about 5.5 to run(Watts would be roughly 2160 and 660 respectively)


Damn! How big is your fridge?


----------



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

ZoomZoom said:


> Damn! How big is your fridge?


Not overly big but it was inexpensive...think I know why.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Webster said:


> Not overly big but it was inexpensive...think I know why.


Ice maker went out on ours. I pulled the frig out away from the wall to trouble shoot. Great Scotts! Lint, dirt, cat hair balls. Removed the front bottom cover, more lint, dirt, cat hair balls, couldn't see thru to the back wall!

"Honey. Do sweep under the frig when you spring clean?"

_"Yes."_

"Looks like you may have missed it last spring."

_"Oh? Under the refrigerator? I never clean under there."_

I cleaned all the coils and everywhere I could reach with the shop vac. Seems like the frig doesn't run as often or as long. Electric bill dropped too!

I've added the frig to my routine house preventive maintenance list.

Said all of that to say this. Keeping the refrigerator coils clean and the rest will allow for better efficiency and lower utility bills.


----------



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

TheLazyL said:


> Ice maker went out on ours. I pulled the frig out away from the wall to trouble shoot. Great Scotts! Lint, dirt, cat hair balls. Removed the front bottom cover, more lint, dirt, cat hair balls, couldn't see thru to the back wall!
> 
> "Honey. Do sweep under the frig when you spring clean?"
> 
> ...


Good point "L" I find anything with a radiator in and around the home(especially the kitchen) not only needs to be cleaned but wiped down it seems to to be a magnet for grease and in turn a light coating of grime. Don't really care for the idea of putting the coils of the new fridges on the bottom for that reason and because...well heat rises. Not to mention you have to be so careful with moving them for example with a dolly.


----------



## airdrop (Jan 6, 2012)

New refers are very efficient until the become lint magnets . Same with furnace filters lol .


----------



## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

TheLazyL said:


> Ice maker went out on ours. I pulled the frig out away from the wall to trouble shoot. Great Scotts! Lint, dirt, cat hair balls. Removed the front bottom cover, more lint, dirt, cat hair balls, couldn't see thru to the back wall!
> 
> "Honey. Do sweep under the frig when you spring clean?"
> 
> ...


Refrigerators are the best dust and fuzz magnets in the house. I've seen some with incredible amounts of dust and fuzz on the coils, I'm surprised they even ran. Yeah, I noticed that after cleaning the coils on our refrigerators they don't run as often either. As to figuring electrical needs for a solar standby system, I bought an amprobe from Harbor Freight for just that purpose.


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Get a meter, plug it in and connect your load (device/appliance/etc.) to it. Let it run for a while and you'll have a number you can use in your calculations. While a refrigerator may draw a large amount, it may only run once every 3 hours. So, a 24 hour window on a load is a good starting point for a more accurate usage.

http://amzn.com/B00009MDBU is an inexpensive good meter that I use.


----------



## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Does the Kill A Watt meter record the starting amperage of appliances or equipment that have electric motors? For sizing generators or solar systems you really need to know that, otherwise a generator or solar system that may be rated for running amperage may not have enough power for starting amps.


----------



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

I see folks talking about the Kill a Watt meter which is new to me but it seems to be basically an amp meter for a home owner nice idea. Just a bit of trivia as I said in the Op I borrowed a amp meter from a friend(retired Ind. Electrician) and he had made a little item so that he could check the draw of household appliances which is nothing more than a male and female plug with some nice heavy wire between the plugs. Maybe #10 with the outer covering and wrapping removed(maybe 8-10 inches of wire) so the probe could be put around the white or black wire to take a reading. Probably something every electrician has made but it works well especially for hard to reach areas.


----------



## Webster (Nov 17, 2014)

Viking said:


> Does the Kill A Watt meter record *the starting amperage of appliances or equipment that have electric motors*? For sizing generators or solar systems you really need to know that, otherwise a generator or solar system that may be rated for running amperage may not have enough power for starting amps.


Just wondering if there is not a rule of thumb for running amps vs starting amps? Say starting 3-4 times running. But then maybe there is simply too much variation in motors. Maybe if an electrician sees this they could offer an opinion.

Webster


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Depends on how long that starting current is drawn for. If it's just a second or so you may not see it on the meter, while a 5 second draw that then scales down to running current would show up. Keep in mind, this is an inexpensive meter. A better model would give you multiple samples per second, graphing (or at least transfer of data to a PC), etc.

Something like the "Watts up?" (or the Pro or Pro ES or...) https://www.wattsupmeters.com/secure/products.php?pn=0 records thousands of times a second.


> The Standard model measures voltage and current thousands of times a second so it has an incredibly fast response time which enables you to "see the surge" of power when appliances are first turned on. The peak value display captures this surge so it is displayed even if it happens too fast to see live. The minimum RMS voltage display shows the line quality and voltage dips. Minimum RMS current and minimum watts can be used to monitor variances in appliances that run continuously.


If course this unit starts at 5 times the price of the kill-a-watt meter. So if initial surge is critical to your calcs, then get a better meter, otherwise for sustained usage over time the kill-a-watt at about $20 is a good choice.

I've actually used both, i have the kill-a-watt at home and the watts up at work. I didn't get it for the extra features... at the time of purchase I just didn't know there were other choices out there.


----------



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Webster said:


> I see folks talking about the Kill a Watt meter which is new to me but it seems to be basically an amp meter for a home owner nice idea. Just a bit of trivia as I said in the Op I borrowed a amp meter from a friend(retired Ind. Electrician) and he had made a little item so that he could check the draw of household appliances which is nothing more than a male and female plug with some nice heavy wire between the plugs. Maybe #10 with the outer covering and wrapping removed(maybe 8-10 inches of wire) so the probe could be put around the white or black wire to take a reading. Probably something every electrician has made but it works well especially for hard to reach areas.


Start watts will vary (like running watts) depending upon conditions. I generally allow three times the run watt's as an estimate to starting watts. If an appliance takes more than a second or two to get going there's probably something wrong with it or line voltage.


----------



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Viking said:


> Does the Kill A Watt meter record the starting amperage of appliances or equipment that have electric motors? For sizing generators or solar systems you really need to know that, otherwise a generator or solar system that may be rated for running amperage may not have enough power for starting amps.


Start watts on a solar power system will impact only your inverter and/or wire size. It won't affect anything else unless you have a tremendously undersized system and just spend a lot of time turning things on and off (increasing your overall electrical usage).


----------

