# Standard or Automatic?



## ajsmith

If you were to go out to buy a bug out vehicle and had a choice of stick or auto, what would you chose and why? The reason why I ask is the other day I injured my left leg (not very bad) at work. It was uncomfortable to put pressure on it but I still had to drive home in my Jeep that is a 5 speed stick. The discomfort of pushing the clutch in got me to thinking what if I was hurt/wounded and trying to bug out? Anyway, what are your thoughts, pros and cons of one over the other?:scratch


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## UncleJoe

I like a standard because it can be bump started. However most of are vehicles are automatic. Go figure.


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## Tirediron

Given the choice a standard, As uncle Joe said you can bump or pull start them, the can provide better engine braking. When I was in high school I cut my left knee with a chain saw and couldn't use my left leg for a couple of months, I learned how to release the clutch with my right leg and shifted by matching RPM
won quite a few bets during that time cause people thought there is no way to drive a standard with a leg in a cast. I really wouldn't want anything with advanced electronics in a BOV,


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## Woody

I woke up one morning and my right elbow locked up the joint and lower arm was numb (tendonitis). I drove a 1 ton chevy 4-speed at the time. It was difficult but I was able to drive with only the left arm. I have had leg injuries and was able to drive/shift also. No, maybe not the safest thing to do but it can be done with one leg or one arm.

Besides being able to pop start a manual, you can also hypermile better than an auto. With a flat towable transmission you can get double… or more… your average mileage in one. Getting 600 miles instead of 300 per tank is a winner in my book.

For security, I don’t think half the U.S. population even knows how to use a clutch so stealing your vehicle is less of a worry. That and if you take the knob off the shifter they will not know where first gear is!!! For BOL storage just unbolt the clutch linkage and it ain’t going anywhere. I don’t think any crook would think to look for that.

In a 4x4 a manual can’t be beat. You let off on the clutch and you know something is going to happen. With an automatic you have to keep pressing on the gas until something happens.


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## nj_m715

Pro's and con's to both. You can can push/pull start a stick, but they are hard to impossible to drive with a leg injury. I find the older non-syscro trans to be easier to "power shift". Shifting by timing the wheel speed with the motor speed and shifting w/o the clutch. I had a clutch cable snap in my sbc powered jeep when I was 1.5 hrs from home. It had a 4 speed with a granny first. If I had to stop at light I would turn off the motor, start the jeep in 2nd gear and power shift. I tried my best to keep it rolling and not stop if I could. It wasn't fun, but I didn't need a tow truck. 

My current truck has an auto, but I'm a fan of a stick. Keep in mind not everyone can drive a stick. If you are badly injured can your wife, teen neighbor or friend drive you to safety? If not they need to learn.


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## NaeKid

My two main Jeeps are pictured below. The white-one without the doors is now an automatic. For better hill-control (uphill) the automatic is best, for mud the automatic is best because it does not fill-up with muck. The silver-one with the doors is a 6-speed manual. It tows loads very well and have awesome hill-control (downhill).

Each of those Jeeps has its positives and its negatives, so, depending on the situation, I can choose either one. Oh ya, both of them are equipped with self-recovery-gear (winch, straps, chains, etc) and both are equipped with communication-equipment (CB-Radio), both are locked-up and both are almost equal in their capabilities. The white one can easily cross water upto 4' 6" and the silver one is limited to about 3' water-crossings (till I put the snorkle on it).


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## JayJay

While on this subject, I am amazed at the population today that can't drive a manual shift, stick shift, 4-speed or 5-speed!!

It would be wise for everyone to have this skill conquered before TSHTF!!

You never know!!!

Our next door neighbor asked to borrow our truck to haul gravel...I actually laughed when he said he couldn't drive the 5-speed!!! I apologized

I thought he was kidding.

I learned to drive with a '66 Chevy Super Sport and a '57 Chevy!!

Fathers, teach your daughters to drive a standard...it could save a life.


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## ajsmith

NaeKid, Nice Jeeps:thumbraise: When I was a kid all we had to do with our trucks was go muddin' or hill climbing, I think I liked the auto best for that. For the street racing in our two wheel drive rigs the old Muncie four speed can't be beat. 
JayJay, I to learned to drive with a stick, started with a '58 chevy pick up at the ripe old age of 12. At 15 my first car was a '57 chevy, we put a 327 cid in it with the three on the tree...lol As I got older, and lazier, I really got to liking the automatics. I think I'm still torn between the two, I've had good luck with both. :dunno:


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## UncleJoe

ajsmith said:


> I to learned to drive with a stick, started with a '58 chevy pick up


My first stick was a '68 fastback Mustang in '77. 289/4 speed. ZOOM-ZOOM. Got my first speeding ticket in that car too.


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## BadgeBunny

My first was a '64 VW Bug with a sunroof that didn't leak!! I loved that car! :2thumb:

I now own a couple of older Toyotas. I LOVE my pickup!!  Like the rest of you guys I am amazed at the number of people who cannot drive a stick shift.


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## MrSfstk8d

Don't know why my dad was against them, but I never learned to drive a manual until I joined the Army. Thinking about getting a beater with manual to let my kids tear it up learning too, lol.


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## Tirediron

Even "18 wheelers" can be equiped with automatics now, :gaah:


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## BasecampUSA

*Bugout combination !

I tow this (gas, standard):










Behind this (diesel, automatic):










A 10,000# winch fits interchangeably on both...

Instant mobile basecamp with 4 months of supplies 
and fuel and 4wd independent mobilization, is what 
I figured for... plus all the ham AM & FM communications 
frequencies, marine radio and CB...
On-board diesel generator, sleeps 4, Kitchenette, Potty.*

Might see some of you at the mid-Atlantic meet in a 
few months - We'll be coming to it like this.
Maine cops made me put duct tape over the lights, but
the siren and intersection stop-light changer still work


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## ajsmith

Basecamp, that's a sweet set up.:2thumb: Would like to see more, post up some pics if ya got'em.


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## BasecampUSA

:Hi AJ,

I took all the radios and freeze-sensitive stuff out of the Ambulance before Christmas for the winter (minus 20 here last week), but in Summer I'll be using it for the Search & Rescue team I'm working with here. I was an EMT in mountain rescue for years.

It used to be an EMT training ambulance for a college and is just like new in back - very little use, and has 125K on the odometer. Its got a 7.3 turbodiesel and pulls like a locomotive train! (I bought it at a government auction for $2500.00) 

Probably get some pics then and I'll bump the thread...

Right now it's under 18" of snow, and I'm digging it out today with the tractor bucket to charge the 6 batteries and start both diesels. Finally got up over freezing here daytimes for a couple of days.

If it came to a bug-out scenario I'd have it ready within an hour, there's propane heat on board as well.

The Jeep is a daily-driver in the winter up here, towbar attaches in 5 minutes.

- Basey


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## Lonewufcry

I prefer a standard but my 250 super duty is an auto and the wrangler is a standard both are in the process of upgrades for bov's.


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## sailaway

UncleJoe said:


> My first stick was a '68 fastback Mustang in '77. 289/4 speed. ZOOM-ZOOM. Got my first speeding ticket in that car too.


Mine was a 67 Chevy Camaro, 250 cid, 3 speed, purchased in 79. Lost DL in 78 bue to 3 speeding tickets before 18, in 71 Mavrick 200cid auto.:nuts:


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## Jason

My parents had a lima bean green Maverick when I was a kid. That's the first car I remember!

My first car was a 85 VW Golf diesel with a 5 speed. I loved that car but it was worn out when I got it, with 203K on the clock. I put about another 20K on it. When we replaced the tranny we just unbolted it from the engine and reached into the engine compartment, grabbed it, and set the new one in. Really lightweight and easy to do. I'm a real big fan of manuals because I feel you can control them better.

We had a 1974 Ward LaFrance fire engine at my fire hall for a while and I was the only one who liked to drive it-it was a 5 speed wth something like a 14 inch throw on the clutch pedal. You couldn't lift you leg high enough to use the clutch in bunker pants so the driver always had to get dressed on scene. It would start out on a very significant hill from a dead stop in third gear. It groaned, but it did it. We got rid of it when we got the new truck in 06. The new one's no fun-you push a button and you're in drive. The gear selector pannel looks like a calculator.

My pickup is an automatic only because I got it off the lot at the end of the year when they were trying to move the old stock and I couldn't beat the price. There were 3 left and they were all the same-all autos. Knock on wood it's been a damn good truck for 7 years now.


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## ajsmith

I'm still torn between the two. If there's enough time left in our world as we know it I would like to build my "preper mobil". It will consist of a Jeep FSJ four door put on a mid-seventies Chevy Blazer frame and running gear. Most Blazers came with autos so I might just swap from a TH-350 to a TH-400, that way I could just shorten the stock rear drive line and get a stock front drive line from a 3/4 ton with a TH400. That keeps it pretty simple


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## nj_m715

ajsmith said:


> I might just swap from a TH-350 to a TH-400,


Don't be too fast to dismiss the 350. It's more common and much cheaper to replace. It has a lower first gear ratio than the turbo 400. I ran a 350 for years behind a mild sbc in a jeep on 44" tires. I broke a lot of stuff, but never broke a trans. A good rebuilder can put in stronger clutches and advise you which torque convertor to run. My guy suggested a diesel convertor because of the lock up speed. I like running cheap readily available junkyard parts. Unless you are running a 10 second car you might not really need a th400.


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## ajsmith

nj_m715 said:


> Don't be too fast to dismiss the 350. It's more common and much cheaper to replace. It has a lower first gear ratio than the turbo 400. I ran a 350 for years behind a mild sbc in a jeep on 44" tires. I broke a lot of stuff, but never broke a trans. A good rebuilder can put in stronger clutches and advise you which torque convertor to run. My guy suggested a diesel convertor because of the lock up speed. I like running cheap readily available junkyard parts. Unless you are running a 10 second car you might not really need a th400.


I've had two Blazers in years past, the '77 with a 350/350 (38.5 Gateways for tires) went through two transmissions, the 350 trans in my '78 that I stuffed a 454 in with 33X12.50 tires worked great. The '78 3/4 ton with a 350/400 (33X12.50) worked perfect. But your probable right, a 350 with a lower first gear and an updated sprag should do just fine.....wow been a long time since I talked shop (I used to be the service adviser for our local Chevy dealer)


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## carolexan

I know I maybe dating myself here but I learned to drive a standard on the column...I was just 12! Daddy taught all of us to drive anything. Both our truck and car are automatic.


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## ajsmith

carolexan said:


> I know I maybe dating myself here but I learned to drive a standard on the column...I was just 12! Daddy taught all of us to drive anything. Both our truck and car are automatic.


Lol....yeah, my first car of my own was a three on the tree to, a '57 Chevy two door. I learned to drive at 12 also, in a '58 Chevy pick up with granny low...them were the good old days  I kinda miss that old pick up, I gave it to my niece about four years ago, it's still in her garage.


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## nj_m715

I forgot to add that keeping an auto cool is the key to a long life. Those things can get hot under load. Get a good aftermarket cooler or use the a/c condenser if your air is broken. I had a homemade cooler built from an old freezer condenser in my jeep. Flush 'em out with some atf before you use it. I did loose one trans to a mud hole, but you can't really blame the trans for giving up the ghost after it was swamped.


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## ajsmith

nj_m715 said:


> I forgot to add that keeping an auto cool is the key to a long life. Those things can get hot under load. Get a good aftermarket cooler or use the a/c condenser if your air is broken. I had a homemade cooler built from an old freezer condenser in my jeep. Flush 'em out with some atf before you use it. I did loose one trans to a mud hole, but you can't really blame the trans for giving up the ghost after it was swamped.


Yeah, I have to admit the second trans I lost in the '77 was just one of those things, the front pump let go and shredded everything else. I guess I have had a lot of good luck with the 350's. The only reason I mentioned the 400 is I know there stronger to a point and with all the farms and ranches around here there is a ton of them everywhere.


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## nj_m715

That changes things. Use what's common. Around here guys treat th400's like gold while 350 are stacked like cord wood.


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## Tirediron

It sucks that the th 350 & 400 don't have a rear pump like a powerglide, a pull startable powershift would be nice.


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## ajsmith

Tirediron said:


> It sucks that the th 350 & 400 don't have a rear pump like a powerglide, a pull startable powershift would be nice.


Yeah, power glides are strong, a lot of the budget built race cars around here use them. Had one in my '67 Chevelle, dang thing would do 90 in first gear. I know this because I tried to blow the motor in it so I could have a good excuse to build the 350 four bolt I had collecting dust in the corner...


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## ajsmith

nj_m715 said:


> That changes things. Use what's common. Around here guys treat th400's like gold while 350 are stacked like cord wood.


I could go either way, there's still more 350's than 400's. So if I was to get out of the area and have some problems it might pay to have the less expensive of the two.


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## mosquitomountainman

ajsmith said:


> I've had two Blazers in years past, the '77 with a 350/350 (38.5 Gateways for tires) went through two transmissions, the 350 trans in my '78 that I stuffed a 454 in with 33X12.50 tires worked great. The '78 3/4 ton with a 350/400 (33X12.50) worked perfect. But your probable right, a 350 with a lower first gear and an updated sprag should do just fine.....wow been a long time since I talked shop (I used to be the service adviser for our local Chevy dealer)


What "sprag" (updated or otherwise) on a THM 350 are you talking about? I thought all they had were roller clutches.

The THM 350 is a nice smooth shifting transmission and can be beefed up somewhat but the THM 400 is a beast. It's internals are just bigger and beefier. If you plan on putting a 400 where a 350 was in a 4X4 you'll need a transfer case set-up for a THM 400 as well. The output shaft on a 400 is larger than the one on a THM 350.


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## ajsmith

mosquitomountainman said:


> What "sprag" (updated or otherwise) on a THM 350 are you talking about? I thought all they had were roller clutches.
> 
> The THM 350 is a nice smooth shifting transmission and can be beefed up somewhat but the THM 400 is a beast. It's internals are just bigger and beefier. If you plan on putting a 400 where a 350 was in a 4X4 you'll need a transfer case set-up for a THM 400 as well. The output shaft on a 400 is larger than the one on a THM 350.


Got to remember it's been almost 30 years since I worked at the Chevy garage, never as a mechanic, only as a service adviser (this means I did most of the scheduling). I only know enough to make me dangerous  The "sprag" is a term used by the old mechanic in the shop, I would assume it had something to do with the "planetary gears"? The up date was a beefier set that he would get from our parts department. May have been after market??

I do remember a little about the out put shaft being different, something about different splines in the "adapter" between the trans and the T-case. Or maybe that was between a standard and an auto :scratch Like I said it's been a long time since I even talked shop :dunno: Anyways, what ever I put in my Preper Mobil (wish mobil) would be as a unit, trans and T-case already put together. What I do know is the 400 is longer and puts the T-case back farther so it takes a different (longer) front drive line. But it sounds like the 350 with a shift kit would be the way to go. Anyway, Peace Man :surrender:


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## Tirediron

mosquitomountainman said:


> What "sprag" (updated or otherwise) on a THM 350 are you talking about? I thought all they had were roller clutches.
> 
> The THM 350 is a nice smooth shifting transmission and can be beefed up somewhat but the THM 400 is a beast. It's internals are just bigger and beefier. If you plan on putting a 400 where a 350 was in a 4X4 you'll need a transfer case set-up for a THM 400 as well. The output shaft on a 400 is larger than the one on a THM 350.


the sprag is a roller type oneway clutch (not the overrunning clutch) the outer race splines to the outer cage , thm 350 properly built will handle a healthy 454,and is a good mechanical replacement for thm 700R4 and 4L60E due to common output splines. the thm 400 and 4L80E ussually share the same output spline, although you can get a output gear for a thm400 that splines to a thm 350 t-case. along with a housing adapter. If you are buying a THM for a bugout or other severe service vechicle make sure to get a heavy case in either model


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## ajsmith

Thanks Tirediron, that clears up some things at least for me. I can shade tree a few things but never been into the guts of a automatic before. All I know about the "sprag" is that old mechanic would always grumble about how a person "would back up and not wait for their car to stop rolling before they dropped in to drive and tear up the sprag".


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## nj_m715

I am pretty handy, but I never took an auto apart any further than changing a filter. My buddy talked about using beefier clutches and a shift kit to tweek the shift points. He explained that an auto might not be "stronger" Than a stick but they are more forgiving because the torque convertor can may up for driver error or inexperience. It can act like a cushion if you get a little too heavy on the go pedal. It takes some abuse off of the rest of the drivetrain. As long as you don't over heat one or try to spin the wheels with a "neutral drop" it should hold up well. In highschool I had a knuckle head buddy who like to show off in his camaro. He was replacing a flexplate every other month.


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## MrSfstk8d

No, not in a Camaro. I am shocked


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## kyfarmer

Stick hands down and everyone here can drive one. I made sure of that, both the jeeps are autos but not my rides, i just work on them lol.


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## LincTex

If you lose the fluid in an automatic, you lose its "blood" and it will quit. Most of us are careful to avoid such a thing from happening, but if you are under stress/in a panic/driving over a lot of obstacles, you may damage: the pan, lines, or cooler - - letting the red stuff out. 

My diesel truck is manual trans with a mechanical injection pump. 
As long as I can coast it down a hill and pop the clutch, I will never need any electrical system whatsoever. A small pull cable (choke cable) is used to pull the fuel cut-off for engine shutdown.


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## piglett

*manual trans for me*



LincTex said:


> If you lose the fluid in an automatic, you lose its "blood" and it will quit. Most of us are careful to avoid such a thing from happening, but if you are under stress/in a panic/driving over a lot of obstacles, you may damage: the pan, lines, or cooler - - letting the red stuff out.
> 
> My diesel truck is manual trans with a mechanical injection pump.
> As long as I can coast it down a hill and pop the clutch, I will never need any electrical system whatsoever. A small pull cable (choke cable) is used to pull the fuel cut-off for engine shutdown.


well boys i'm showing up a little late to the party but here in my 2 cents worth. 
I can remove a manual trans crack it open on the kitchen table (my wife would love that):2thumb: & repair it , no i didn't say REBUILD just repair. so unless you have worked in an auto trans shop before you will want a stick.

take care all
piglett


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## TrackerRat

For the outdoor adventure a stick is the bse choice. In my situation my wife cant drive it and chooses not to learn either. So if she needed to drive I would have to get an auto.

I know the old 80's early 90's trucks had sticks in fullsize and midsize. Cant find em today unless you go big so go look for a beater and throw some money in to get it up to par. Still will cost much less than a newer vehicle.


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## piglett

I bet she would learn if her only other option was walk :ignore:

piglett


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## ajsmith

LincTex said:


> If you lose the fluid in an automatic, you lose its "blood" and it will quit. Most of us are careful to avoid such a thing from happening, but if you are under stress/in a panic/driving over a lot of obstacles, you may damage: the pan, lines, or cooler - - letting the red stuff out.
> 
> My diesel truck is manual trans with a mechanical injection pump.
> As long as I can coast it down a hill and pop the clutch, I will never need any electrical system whatsoever. A small pull cable (choke cable) is used to pull the fuel cut-off for engine shutdown.


Those are very good points. Stress/panic driving over things that eat pans, lines and coolers is a big down fall of the automatic. If your doing that I hope your engine oil pan is protected, even a stick won't do much good if you got a fist sized hole in the bottom of you oil pan (just ask my nephew, hehe :ignore.


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## ajsmith

TrackerRat said:


> For the outdoor adventure a stick is the bse choice. In my situation my wife cant drive it and chooses not to learn either. So if she needed to drive I would have to get an auto.
> 
> I know the old 80's early 90's trucks had sticks in fullsize and midsize. Cant find em today unless you go big so go look for a beater and throw some money in to get it up to par. Still will cost much less than a newer vehicle.


I have both, my Jeep is a 5spd. manual, my F-350 is a 4spd. auto, I like each for what they bring to the table. As far as finding an old rig and fixing it up, sounds like a good plan for some. I am seriously thinking about getting a FSJ Wagoneer and putting it on a shortened 3/4 ton Chevy frame and keep the Chevy running gear. I work in the wood industry so it will be a back burner idea till things pick up at work ("if" they pick up). :dunno:


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## Jimmy24

I'll take an auto. Have owned around 12-14 vehicles, cars and trucks, with sticks. Most mileage I ever got before needing a clutch/flywheel service was about 110,000 miles. 

Have owned 8 cars and trucks with automatics. One went bad at 154,000 miles. Had a TH400 behind a '70 500 Caddy in a '73 GMC that made 199,000 before it needed overhaul again. Wish I still had it....

Guess I've just been able to get better service out of my autos. So I'll stay with 'em...

Jimmy


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## ajsmith

Jimmy24 said:


> I'll take an auto. Have owned around 12-14 vehicles, cars and trucks, with sticks. Most mileage I ever got before needing a clutch/flywheel service was about 110,000 miles.
> 
> Have owned 8 cars and trucks with automatics. One went bad at 154,000 miles. Had a TH400 behind a '70 500 Caddy in a '73 GMC that made 199,000 before it needed overhaul again. Wish I still had it....
> 
> Guess I've just been able to get better service out of my autos. So I'll stay with 'em...
> 
> Jimmy


Jimmy, I am leaning towards an automatic as I have had good luck with them to, with the only exception being my '77 Chevy Blazer. I burnt up a clutch and exploded a Muncie 4 speed in my '63 Chevy pick up to, so I guess it's two for two if your keeping score.

The original intent of this thread was to get peoples opinions as to what they prefer and more importantly why? I figured it may help others with less experience and I may learn something to. 
Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. :beercheer:


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## piglett

Jimmy24 said:


> I'll take an auto. Have owned around 12-14 vehicles, cars and trucks, with sticks. Most mileage I ever got before needing a clutch/flywheel service was about 110,000 miles.
> 
> Have owned 8 cars and trucks with automatics. One went bad at 154,000 miles. Had a TH400 behind a '70 500 Caddy in a '73 GMC that made 199,000 before it needed overhaul again. Wish I still had it....
> 
> Guess I've just been able to get better service out of my autos. So I'll stay with 'em...
> 
> Jimmy


 i have had quite a few small toyotas both front & rear wheel drive & i normaly get between 150k & 200k out of them before i have to pull the tranny & replace the cluch. ever try to do that on an auto? you have to tare down the thing to get to the clutches, i think i'll pass on that boys

piglett


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## piglett

ajsmith said:


> Jimmy, I am leaning towards an automatic as I have had good luck with them to, with the only exception being my '77 Chevy Blazer. I burnt up a clutch and exploded a Muncie 4 speed in my '63 Chevy pick up to, so I guess it's two for two if your keeping score.
> 
> The original intent of this thread was to get peoples opinions as to what they prefer and more importantly why? I figured it may help others with less experience and I may learn something to.
> Thanks for your input, greatly appreciated. :beercheer:


i once has to drag a full size ford van home for a friend of mine
it was well loaded with tools which didn't help either. all i had to hook on with was a 2wd 88 toyota pickup (4 on the floor) the truck weighed 2700lbs with me in it.
the van had to weigh twice that much. if my old toyota was an auto i would have never even given it a try. i got the guy home with his van & although my tranny felt very warm my little truck was able to take the abuse.

piglett


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## ajsmith

piglett said:


> i have had quite a few small toyotas both front & rear wheel drive & i normaly get between 150k & 200k out of them before i have to pull the tranny & replace the cluch. ever try to do that on an auto? you have to tare down the thing to get to the clutches, i think i'll pass on that boys
> 
> piglett


Piglett, I understand and agree with that point of view completely. For some one who has to use there daily driver as there (god I hate this term) "Bug Out" vehicle it may make sense for them too. Even I could change the clutch in a pinch and I wouldn't even attempt to rebuild a automatic. Very good point, this is the type of feed back I was hoping for from this thread!!

For me though, as I stated in my original post, it would be if I was to go buy a vehicle for the purpose of "bugging out", it may get 2k to 5k miles a year (probably more like 1k or 2k). So for me personally, I'm still leaning towards an automatic. There's more autos out there than sticks (at least in my area). Having owned a pulled both from my rigs, if the SHTF I know I can steal and replace my whole auto "almost" as easy as changing a clutch.

Anyway I was just looking for everyone's input, please feel free to elaborate more ideas and thoughts, they are all valuable. :beercheer:


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## ajsmith

piglett said:


> i once has to drag a full size ford van home for a friend of mine
> it was well loaded with tools which didn't help either. all i had to hook on with was a 2wd 88 toyota pickup (4 on the floor) the truck weighed 2700lbs with me in it.
> the van had to weigh twice that much. if my old toyota was an auto i would have never even given it a try. i got the guy home with his van & although my tranny felt very warm my little truck was able to take the abuse.
> 
> piglett


I've never had the pleasure of pulling something that big with something that small so I might have tried but probably payed the price for it. The auto in my Ford has handled anything I've thrown at it for the last six years, including our camp trailer, at almost 10,000lbs. wet. Oh, and the truck has 147,000 miles on it too!


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## Tirediron

I think the most important difference as stated earlier is that the manual transmission can be patched or repaired a lot more easily without special tools, I have seen manuals with welded countershafts (that repair took special tools) but it wasn't what failed when I tore the trans down.

Another point that this thread made me think of is that anyone wanting to salvage materials after a population decimating SHTF should make themselves familiar with Class 8 truck/ tractors (Big rigs) these have no syncros in the transmission and require the driver to match the input shaft speed with the rest of the transmission for gear selection, either by double clutching or rpm manipulation.


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## Meerkat

JayJay said:


> While on this subject, I am amazed at the population today that can't drive a manual shift, stick shift, 4-speed or 5-speed!!
> 
> It would be wise for everyone to have this skill conquered before TSHTF!!
> 
> You never know!!!
> 
> Our next door neighbor asked to borrow our truck to haul gravel...I actually laughed when he said he couldn't drive the 5-speed!!! I apologized
> 
> I thought he was kidding.
> 
> I learned to drive with a '66 Chevy Super Sport and a '57 Chevy!!
> 
> Fathers, teach your daughters to drive a standard...it could save a life.


 I learned to drive in a 55 Ford,burnt that clutch up!That boy must have really liked me.

Had a 55 chevy with a 326, 456? possitive traction rear end and 4 ITFloor.

From what I remember standards are easier to work,cost less and get better traction.Plus if the gears stick you can manually pull the linkage when it hung up or got stuck.We tore out alot of rear ends at the drag stripes though with automatics and standards.

In Daytona I was at a light with a station wagon next to us racing his engine ,I laughed,told my friend he wanted to race.He came up off the road and left us in his dust. It was a souped up Nomad.


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## piglett

ajsmith said:


> Piglett, I understand and agree with that point of view completely. For some one who has to use there daily driver as there (god I hate this term) "Bug Out" vehicle it may make sense for them too. Even I could change the clutch in a pinch and I wouldn't even attempt to rebuild a automatic. Very good point, this is the type of feed back I was hoping for from this thread!!
> 
> For me though, as I stated in my original post, it would be if I was to go buy a vehicle for the purpose of "bugging out", it may get 2k to 5k miles a year (probably more like 1k or 2k). So for me personally, I'm still leaning towards an automatic. There's more autos out there than sticks (at least in my area). Having owned a pulled both from my rigs, if the SHTF I know I can steal and replace my whole auto "almost" as easy as changing a clutch.
> 
> Anyway I was just looking for everyone's input, please feel free to elaborate more ideas and thoughts, they are all valuable. :beercheer:


well here is the really big plus about a standard trans....
they almost always give you many weeks if not months warning that they will soon need to be looked at 
& the auto , well clunk it was working a second ago
many times i have myself seen them give Z E R O warning that they were about to fail which in a bug out could be a very bad thing !!!!
if i have to trust my life & the life of my wife to something it will dam sure not have an auto trans in it. there about 10 or 12 cheep little parts that can & will at some point fail in an auto do you really care to roll the dice when the sh*t is about to hit the fan??? :scratch:scratch:scratch

piglett


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## ajsmith

piglett said:


> well here is the really big plus about a standard trans....
> the almost always give you many weeks if not months that they will soon need to be looked at & the auto , well clunk it was working a secon ago
> many times i have myself seen them give Z E R O warning that they were about to fail which in a big out could be a very bad thing !!!!
> if i have to trust my life & the life of my wife to something it will dam sure not have an auto trans in it. there about 10 or 12 cheep little parts that can & will at some point fail in an auto do you really care to roll the dice when the sh*t is about to hit the fan??? :scratch:scratch:scratch
> 
> piglett


lol...I personally know how that "was working a second ago" deal goes.  At least I was able to coast to the side of the road with the auto in my Blazer. The 4 speed that let go in my old '63 Chevy, gave no warning, 'bout put me and my friend through the windshield and left me blocking one lane of traffic on a busy US highway for almost 30 minutes while I hoofed it back to the garage and got the wrecker.  That puppy blew parts on the ground and locked up big time, I'm just glad I had just pulled out on the road and was only doing about 40. Normal speed would have been about 65.

That's just my luck tho...if it's workin, it's workin, if it's broke, it's broke...and it usually breaks at the worst time 

As far as what trans to trust your life with if the SHTF, I just hope everyone's contribution here can help some others out there figure out what will work for them, in the end it's a personal choice.


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## piglett

ajsmith said:


> lol...I personally know how that "was working a second ago" deal goes.  At least I was able to coast to the side of the road with the auto in my Blazer. The 4 speed that let go in my old '63 Chevy, gave no warning, 'bout put me and my friend through the windshield and left me blocking one lane of traffic on a busy US highway for almost 30 minutes while I hoofed it back to the garage and got the wrecker.  That puppy blew parts on the ground and locked up big time, I'm just glad I had just pulled out on the road and was only doing about 40. Normal speed would have been about 65.
> 
> That's just my luck tho...if it's workin, it's workin, if it's broke, it's broke...and it usually breaks at the worst time
> 
> As far as what trans to trust your life with if the SHTF, I just hope everyone's contribution here can help some others out there figure out what will work for them, in the end it's a personal choice.


 I myself did have a 4 speed trans lock up on me 1 time but it told me for many weeks that it was one sick puppy. I wanted to see how long it would last so i just kept driving it till it let go. part of a bearing fell in between 2 gears & after rocking it a couple of times the piece must have fell to the bottom of the case so i was then able to grab a chain & have a friend drag er' back home so i could score a junkyard trans.

piglett


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