# Emergency stash of cash



## dnsnthegrdn

I saw a long time ago on SurvivalBlog.com that it suggested having 100-ones, so many fives, so many tens, so many twenty, and one hundreds. Now I can't find that post anymore. Does anyone know this info?


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## NaeKid

The rule-of-thumb is to have enough cash available that you would be able to use it to get to where you need to go. Figure out how much fuel your vehicle needs and how much food you would need to purchase to get from work-to-home-to-BOL and then double that and keep it hidden.

For me, a tank of gas is about $60, that gives me about 4hr of driving-time (400km or 240miles). If I am going to bug-out to my parents place, I would need to have about $240 in cash plus incidentals, so, $300 would be about right. The small bills is so that you can make change and not have to rely on someone else's math to make sure that you get the right deal.

You will need to re-evaluate your cash-stash each month to make sure that you always have sufficient cash available for emergencies.


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## TheAnt

I would say that if you wanted to have a good supply of money that could be used during the first few days of SHTF a person might want to have:

100 1's
20 5's
10 10's
5 20's
and
1 100's

That way making change shouldnt be a problem at all. Depending on what you expected to use the money for it might be an overkill... or maybe not enough. The idea is that you can make change (in my mind). Maybe this will spur you to remember what the numbers were.


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## Clarice

You must realize for the first few hours after the meltdown most people still will not have a clue as to what has happened. So the phoney paper money will still be accepted by some. Be sure your stash has some junk silver coins and low denomination gold coins. DH and I were discussing this last night. We will keep some cash on hand but the majority of our money goes into preps as they will have more value than cash when the balloon goes up.


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## Jimmy24

Clarice said:


> You must realize for the first few hours after the meltdown most people still will not have a clue as to what has happened. So the phoney paper money will still be accepted by some. Be sure your stash has some junk silver coins and low denomination gold coins. DH and I were discussing this last night. We will keep some cash on hand but the majority of our money goes into preps as they will have more value than cash when the balloon goes up.


I agree. But I'll hold my little bit of gold for when, hopefully, things settle down and start to move back to a more normal mode. I do have a bunch of silver coins, dimes, quarters, half dollars and silver dollars. Having worked close with customer payment offices for close to 30 years, I had the folks waiting on customers checking their change all the time. About 24 offices. I managed to accumulate a sizeable amount of silver during those years. Mind you I paid for them too. 5x for dimes and 4x for the rest. Never had anyone say no.

I see them now as my "money" if times get to that point.

Jimmy


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## ImNotCrazyRU

*all your eggs in the US currency basket*

I don't think I agree with having all your eggs in the US currency basket. We have kept around a thousand dollars in cash on hand but started using this money to buy silver earlier this year.

One ounce silver bars are around $30 each right now So called "junk silver" (pre 1964 dimes, quarters, halfs, and silver dollars) are 90% silver and a dollars worth of 90% silver coins are selling for around $25. A 90% silver dime is currently worth $2.47 US

We don't buy collector coins like "liberty half dollars" because they have a higher exchange rate or cost as you are paying for the minting value which means nothing after TSHTF. Also, we are not counting on the silver value increasing but if the US dollar crashes it surely will go up in value and will never be worth zero.


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## BlueShoe

I thought silver and gold would go down in value in the fan? Up at onset of the event, but down right after the spike in demand.


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## Padre

*SHTF Financial Planning*

Since you get so little interest on your bank savings account and the risk should the SHTF is so great, a simple cost benefit analysis would show that it makes a LOT more sense to keep your money at home in cash or physical assets.

A good rule of thumb for an emergency stash is have currency denominations in stacks of 10: 10x ones, 10x fives, 10x tens, 10x 20s, and 10x 100s.

Of course, you can/should have more stored at home, and a little in the bank so that you can interact with the electronic money system that so much of the automated world works on, but the bulk of your savings should be in TANGIBLES, things you can touch like gold, silver, food, fuel, bullets, etc.

If the dung begins to hit the fan USE YOUR CREDIT CARD FIRST, until you max out or the system goes down. USE IT early and often, because electronic money will be the first type that stops working (i.e. why you shouldn't keep your money in the banks).

Next go to your cash, because "it has no real value!!!" Remember this mantra and put it to good use if you truly believe the S is Hing TF. The break down by tens makes a lot of sense because at first things will be more or less average price, gas will be $3-5 initially, and at first you will need to be able to break 10s and 20s ergo the 5s and 1s. BUT quickly, as people realize what is happening price inflation will begin to make your 5s and 1s about as useful as pennies. As gas goes to $10, 20, or 30 dollars a gallon a few ones will not break the bank, either tell them to keep the change or use change as an excuse to buy a few extras. The trick is to get RID of the paper because once there is no functional US government, people will eventually realize that the full faith of the US government means NOTHING.

Silver is the next thing you can start to use. Silver and gold have intrinsic value and no matter what the market says they are worth in edollar$, silver is worth silver in reality, and when people have no currency to trade in that has value and that they trust the presumption is that silver will resume its historic role as street change money. Gold may not be that useful at this point because of its high value. Instead I would hold on to gold for long term savings or necessary large purchases. Along with these metals after paper money stops being accepted essential supplies will be worth their weight in gold and things like bullets may be more widely accepted than even silver initially.

IF THE SHTF and you have an opportunity, BUY STUFF. Even if it isn't the stuff you want or think you will need: water, food, weapons, ammo, etc... If you can't find the stuff that you need, buy STUFF that people will always need, because what does it matter to you if you max out your credit card.... if the SHTF the money you owe the bank will be WORTHLESS and the stuff that you have may become essentially PRICELESS.


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## Immolatus

When the dollar loses value, the price of silver/gold/oil can only go up, all other things being equal. When fiat currencies go belly up, precious metals will be the only money worth anything at all, regardless of the relative value to the dollar.
Silver and gold are highly margined (derivated?), so as soon as the paper metals disappear, the actual demand for the physical metal will outstrip the supply immediately and cause a crazy, meteoric rise in the prices of both.
One of the Bill's is the silver guy around here, but read through some of the pm threads and read some goldbug reports to get a better explanation.


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## helmut

What are your thoughts on pulling money out of 401's or deferred comp accounts to purchase tangibles/silver/gold etc? 

I can't help but think all the $ devoted to these accounts each month would better serve me with my preps now instead of losing it in the inevitable collapse.


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## oldvet

helmut said:


> What are your thoughts on pulling money out of 401's or deferred comp accounts to purchase tangibles/silver/gold etc?
> 
> I can't help but think all the $ devoted to these accounts each month would better serve me with my preps now instead of losing it in the inevitable collapse.


IMO turning you 401's, IRA's, or whatever you have for retirement into Gold or silver is not a bad idea at all. The only thing I might have a problem with is wheather or not you would have to pay taxes on it after you drew it out, of course if the bottom falls out before tax time then it's a moot point.

Personally I would put a portion of it in 90% silver coins (junk coins) dated 1964 or earlier. The junk coins can be used for barter if need be. An ounce of gold or silver while good for the future, would be hard to barter with because of it's value as in $1,600.00 an ounce for gold and $33,00 an ounce for silver.


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## Tweto

*Well thought out Padre*

Of course, you can/should have more stored at home, and a little in the bank so that you can interact with the electronic money system that so much of the automated world works on, but the bulk of your savings should be in TANGIBLES, things you can touch like gold, silver, food, fuel, bullets, etc.

If the dung begins to hit the fan USE YOUR CREDIT CARD FIRST, until you max out or the system goes down. USE IT early and often, because electronic money will be the first type that stops working (i.e. why you shouldn't keep your money in the banks).

Next go to your cash, because "it has no real value!!!" Remember this mantra and put it to good use if you truly believe the S is Hing TF. The break down by tens makes a lot of sense because at first things will be more or less average price, gas will be $3-5 initially, and at first you will need to be able to break 10s and 20s ergo the 5s and 1s. BUT quickly, as people realize what is happening price inflation will begin to make your 5s and 1s about as useful as pennies. As gas goes to $10, 20, or 30 dollars a gallon a few ones will not break the bank, either tell them to keep the change or use change as an excuse to buy a few extras. The trick is to get RID of the paper because once there is no functional US government, people will eventually realize that the full faith of the US government means NOTHING.

Silver is the next thing you can start to use. Silver and gold have intrinsic value and no matter what the market says they are worth in edollar$, silver is worth silver in reality, and when people have no currency to trade in that has value and that they trust the presumption is that silver will resume its historic role as street change money. Gold may not be that useful at this point because of its high value. Instead I would hold on to gold for long term savings or necessary large purchases. Along with these metals after paper money stops being accepted essential supplies will be worth their weight in gold and things like bullets may be more widely accepted than even silver initially.

IF THE SHTF and you have an opportunity, BUY STUFF. Even if it isn't the stuff you want or think you will need: water, food, weapons, ammo, etc... If you can't find the stuff that you need, buy STUFF that people will always need, because what does it matter to you if you max out your credit card.... if the SHTF the money you owe the bank will be WORTHLESS and the stuff that you have may become essentially PRICELESS.[/QUOTE]

When I know the SHTF is now,I spend to the limit my charge cards. I have a list of all the items I would buy and from what stores and in what order I purchase these items. I have enough cash stored at home to handle any situation that I can think of.

I disagree with the comments that silver and gold will be useful in the first few months. If the worst happens and a third world conditions are happening, the most valuable items will be canned goods. Canned meats will be come the currency for the first few months to a year.

The average person will have no clue to the value of old silver and would not know a double eagle from a hole in the ground. If you are trying to barter with gold you will have to first find those people of similar mind sets as us.

Gold and silver is a requirement and needs to be stored at home. Both of these will be the currency of choice, just not in the beginning.


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## BillS

I think it would be a good idea to have a lot more than $100 in cash at home. If you could have $1000 it would be a lot better. When the EU collapses it could take down the US banking system with it. A lot of people might not have access to their money for an extended period of time.


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## Padre

*10-10-10 Plan*



BillS said:


> I think it would be a good idea to have a lot more than $100 in cash at home. If you could have $1000 it would be a lot better. When the EU collapses it could take down the US banking system with it. A lot of people might not have access to their money for an extended period of time.


Not to sound like Herman Cain, but my 10-10-10 plan, is having 10x100s, 10x20s, 10x10s, 10x5s, 10x1s, and $10 in (40) regular quarters. That is $1370 in cash as an emergency stash, plus whatever you walk around with (a few hundred).

While having more might seem like a good idea, having about $1500, rather than more serves an added function. $1500 is enough to deal with any minor disaster and enough to bug out with, BUT not enough to get too comfortable. I figure if I exhaust $1500 and can't get more out of the bank this is a good cue (ALARM) to GOOD (get out of Dodge). One of the most dangerous tendencies in a SHTF situation is normalcy bias, if I fly through my $1500 stash and can't replenish it then things are not NORMAL, and its about time to get to my cabin and start living off grid.

I also keep $100 in junk silver quarters and $100 in junk silver dimes and some gold and silver bullion, but as I noted I view these as long term investments.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl

Padre said:


> Not to sound like Herman Cain, but my 10-10-10 plan, is having 10x100s, 10x20s, 10x10s, 10x5s, 10x1s, and $10 in (40) regular quarters. That is $1370 in cash as an emergency stash, plus whatever you walk around with (a few hundred).
> 
> While having more might seem like a good idea, having about $1500, rather than more serves an added function. $1500 is enough to deal with any minor disaster and enough to bug out with, BUT not enough to get too comfortable. I figure if I exhaust $1500 and can't get more out of the bank this is a good cue (ALARM) to GOOD (get out of Dodge). One of the most dangerous tendencies in a SHTF situation is normalcy bias, if I fly through my $1500 stash and can't replenish it then things are not NORMAL, and its about time to get to my cabin and start living off grid.
> 
> I also keep $100 in junk silver quarters and $100 in junk silver dimes and some gold and silver bullion, but as I noted I view these as long term investments.


I like your plan, Padre! I'm gonna copy you!


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## labouton

*If the dollar is no longer the dollar*

Another senario may well be that the government will suddenly decide that the dollar is now a matso. You be required to trade in all of your dollars for matsos. Of course these matsos will only be worth 1/3 of your dollars or less. It avoids the run on banks and the dollars will be then turned over to the financial institutions to be put away for safe keeping until at some time when they decide to reissue them - for a price of course. IMHO.


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## BillS

SageAdvicefarmgirl said:


> I like your plan, Padre! I'm gonna copy you!


For what it's worth, I'm not a big believer in gold and silver bullion. The average person won't know if it's authentic or not. If it was me, I'd stick with actual coins. I have junk silver dimes. It wouldn't be a bad idea to get junk silver dollars as well. A junk silver dollar has about 7/10 of an ounce of silver. Silver traded at about $32 today so a junk silver dollar is worth about $22. Gold was $1722. That means you'd need about 77 silver dollars to equal one ounce of gold. That's not bad. You could make a fairly large purchase without having so many coins you couldn't easily count them all. It's not like saving nickels or pennies.


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## kaylaB

If you are concerned about whether or not it is a great idea to borrow a cash advance, I have news for you. A payday loan is a completely valid source of borrowing. In fact, you will be glad you did when that emergency comes up and you also need cash right away. You can get cash within just an hour or two if you fill out the quick application online.


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## BillM

*Why not ?*



kaylaB said:


> If you are concerned about whether or not it is a great idea to borrow a cash advance, I have news for you. A payday loan is a completely valid source of borrowing. In fact, you will be glad you did when that emergency comes up and you also need cash right away. You can get cash within just an hour or two if you fill out the quick application online.


Why not just go to a lone shark ? They got about the same rate of intrest ?


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## tac803

kaylaB said:


> If you are concerned about whether or not it is a great idea to borrow a cash advance, I have news for you. A payday loan is a completely valid source of borrowing. In fact, you will be glad you did when that emergency comes up and you also need cash right away. You can get cash within just an hour or two if you fill out the quick application online.


:ranton:*ARE YOU SERIOUS? 
These places offer a loan that you have to repay the next week. If you can't. they automatically deduct the "finance charge" from your bank account and keep doing it until you can pay it back. The borrower (victim) often winds up paying back the initial amount of the loan many times over. May I ask what loan company  you work for? *:rantoff:

*link- how's a 780% apr strike you?*
Link deleted apologies
*"Only 38 sites disclosed the annual interest rates for loans prior to customers completing the application process, while 57 sites quoted the finance charge. The most frequently posted APR was 652%, followed by 780%."*

I'm guessing the vast majority of the people here are hardworking, honest, and really don't need to be destroyed financially.


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## hiwall

Cash at home is a good plan(alot). In many cases one of the first steps to SHTF will be a bank "holiday" that could last forever. During the holiday cash would be king (though max out those credit cards if possible first but they will shut them down fast).


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## lazydaisy67

Yeah, I wouldn't do any business with anybody who could potentially look you up and send out leg-breakers to collect the payment. Not to mention the outlandish interest rates. Better off plunking it away in silver coins, in my opinion. I don't have much, but I have been getting rolls from my bank and sifting through them. Takes a while and you don't get many of them for your time, but I figure it's the easiest way to know for sure that I have the coins I want. I haven't even attempted to get gold coins. The way I look at it, 97% of the population won't have them and probably nobody will know how to make change for them and if somebody gets to thinkin you may have more of them you may be in a security mess so why bother with them.


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## TacticalHawk7

When it comes to storing/accumulating money, i use the old mini-safe (fire proof, water proof, burgler proof). Is that bad? I mean i have bank accounts, but i was always worried that if something happened, i wouldnt be able to get to the money.


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## TopTop

TacticalHawk7 said:


> When it comes to storing/accumulating money, i use the old mini-safe (fire proof, water proof, burgler proof). Is that bad? I mean i have bank accounts, but i was always worried that if something happened, i wouldnt be able to get to the money.


There is no such thing as fire proof, water proof, burglar proof. They are fire, water, burglar resistant. I wouldn't put much faith in anything not UL listed, and then you need to understand the ratings. If it's labeled "tested to UL standards" that means nothing except it failed the test. The last safe I owned weighed nearly four tons, the walls were six inches thick consisting of 3 inches of explosion proof concrete sandwiched between two slabs of 1 1/2 inch boiler plate. Inside was another "secure" safe for your valuables. Everything was high quality, equipped with re-lockers, etc. Even then the UL listing for burglary was only 20 minutes.

I would not have a safe in my home. It makes people think you have something worth stealing. I keep thinking of that couple from a couple years ago. They had 17 foster kids, all special needs. They used an older floor safe to store the meds so there was no chance of the kids accessing them. Someone that was in the house to repair something or clean the carpets or whatever, saw the safe came back & murdered them then stole the safe. They were murdered for a safe containing nothing of value.

But if you feel you must, get a high quality small safe well hidden in a secure location and most important don't tell anyone, not even your own kids. Don't put anything in it that you will need regular access to. A decent locking file cabinet takes care of most things, like insurance policies, car titles, birth certificates, passports, etc.


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## Woody

I keep enough cash on the home property to pay known expenses for 3 months. I keep cash in the vehicle, $40 in mixed bills and $60 in mixed bills at work. Enough to allow me to purchase what I can on the 30 mile ride home. I take out my weekly ‘allowance’ in cash so always have some cash on me. Every now and again I’ll run into a place where the card scanner is down and everyone is wondering how they will get whatever it was they needed. It is also fun to catch cashiers of guard by asking them if they take bills printed by a private bank not the US government.

If any situation runs longer than 3 months without access to a bank account EVERYONE is going to be in deep do-do. There will have to be some kind of country wide solution. I am preparing for the inevitable short bank holiday when they prepare to institute whatever the next system is. You will need to trade in the old currency for whatever the new ‘money’ is and why have $100,000 to turn in and have questions asked. Well, if I had that much it would be in PM’s anyway so never mind.

What PM’s I have are stashed away for when things settle down. I do not have a ton as I never seem to get far enough ahead to buy many these days. Most I bought years ago when silver was $4 or $7 and gold was in the $350 range.


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## tac803

TacticalHawk7 said:


> When it comes to storing/accumulating money, i use the old mini-safe (fire proof, water proof, burgler proof). Is that bad? I mean i have bank accounts, but i was always worried that if something happened, i wouldnt be able to get to the money.


It's only bad if you tell somebody about it.


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## BillS

TacticalHawk7 said:


> When it comes to storing/accumulating money, i use the old mini-safe (fire proof, water proof, burgler proof). Is that bad? I mean i have bank accounts, but i was always worried that if something happened, i wouldnt be able to get to the money.


It isn't bad to use a safe. There are other things you can do too. If you have an album collection you can hide dollar bills in some of the record sleeves. You can put old coins in a sock and bury that sock on the floor of your closet under a bunch of old clothes that you don't wear anymore. If you have piles of bankers boxes filled with old books or other stuff you can put valuables in the bottom boxes and then pile other boxes on top of them. When it comes to hiding stuff it's helpful to have all kinds of stuff that you never throw out.

One other thought: if you have an old computer in your basement that you don't use you could always open the case and stash money (not coins) in there. It wouldn't rattle around or do anything noticeable to the weight. You just need to keep detailed notes on your computer so you remember where you hid stuff.


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## Tweto

The problem with hiding money and valuables in things is you forget that its there. Never hide money in a lap top, the first thing headed out the door during a robbery is the lap top, TV, stereo, etc. 

At the very least, store money in a fireproof box.

After my grand mother died my father went into her house to clean it out to sell it. He kept finding money behind walls, in air vents, in the freezer, etc. When he finally stopped looking he had found over $40,000. The guy that bought the house has probably found more.

I still like the safe. a safe that's at least 400 pounds and fire proof. If you have one of these never tell anybody about and then custom make a box to go over it that makes it look like a cabinet or some other type of furniture.so that service guys won't see it if there in your house hooking up the cable.

Even if a bad guy knows it's there, it's too heavy to move and he is not going to get it open. Now you have to deal with the part about him killing you. I'll worry about that when I have to.

BTW if you have a safe write your name and address on it in plain sight. If for some reason your house is destroyed in a tornado, hurricane, flood, your safe will be fine, but with your name on it at least the authorities can get it back to you. Another good idea is to metal stamp your SSN in a hidden corner.


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## machinist

Here's what I think is a likely scenario in an economic collapse. 

European banks fail, and many EU govt bonds become worthless. This impacts US banks and triggers some derivatives. About the same time, we have Congress in session trying to once again jack up the debt ceiling. Us Treasury bonds don't have any appeal to investors, after seeing EU govts renege on their bonds. The Federal Reserve monetizes more US debt, calling it by whatever name, which causes many investors to flee to gold and silver. 

J P Morgan and others heavily SHORT on silver, lose a bundle filling contracts, and the paper gold and silver markets implode. JPM is in a real squeeze, having lost on EU bond derivatives, also. Other major banks are ready to fail and the Fed props them up with "liquidity"--not the real problem, they are insolvent, but the Fed does it anyway. That hot money runs to commodities, which are going up as the dollar is falling. 

China decides the dollar is toast, and quietly sells all the US Treasuries it can without blowing out the market. The Fed has to buy 'em back, or watch the bond prices tumble. China then buys commodities and natural resources of any sort. 

Oh. Yeah. That already happened! Most of it anyway. The next step is probably more of the same until the dollar and the UST's aren't worth much and foreign exchange rates go to the moon. NOTE: Hyperinflation is what happens when other countries (and the resident population) lose confidence in the currency. 

Next, the US quickly implements capital controls to prevent the flight of foreign capital from our markets--but they will be too late, and the money will be gone in a flash with today's instant money transfers. 

With the economy in the sewer, the US is strapped for tax money and WILL monetize vast amounts of govt debt, trashing the value of a dollar. (Already started.) At some point in this process, foreign govts may demand gold for oil, or other goods. When they do, the US can, A) declare war on them, B) confiscate all the gold they can get their hands on, or C) both of these. 

At the very least, I would expect the govt to either tax the sales of gold and silver to make it impossible to trade, or outlaw private ownership of PM's and use the confiscated PM's to try to back a "New Dollar". 

If something like this transpires, it may be 50 years before any hidden stash of PM's could be legally sold. 

I have no interest in PM's for the long haul. Too risky. Marc Faber advises everyone to own gold, but NOT IN THE US, because he expects it to be confiscated. Again. 

I would much rather own real goods. The point of having dollars is to be able to buy the things you need. If you own gold or silver, it must be sold to get dollars to buy anything at Wal Mart and most other stores I use. Why not just spend it on useful, needful things?
_____________

Whatever happens, I am sure I won't like it.


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## db2469

Machinist...no one knows exactly how the currency issue will play out after the crash so I have chosen to buy some PMs just in case they will be THE currency at least for awhile...land and shelter upon it might be best but we can't all do that...if I could afford it, I'd buy that complex in Arizona that is for sale on this site (I forgot the thread title)..but would REALLY like an underground home as it would be the safest against looters and nuclear war..
DB


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## machinist

db2469,

The outcome is a crap shoot at this point, for sure. Yes, we do keep a stash of cash. Not a lot, but enough to live for a while. And no, I'm not giving up how much or where at.

I have a challenge at present, being retired and pretty well prepped, I get to decide what to do with some retirement funds. I worked for General Motors for 14 years, and now they want to give me a lump sum pension buyout. The proceeds amount to about the price of a decent new car. I don't need a car. Basically, this is savings for us. What the heck do I do with it?

I have zero confidence in any paper investment, be it stocks, bonds, MM, CD, paper gold, paper silver, paper oil, or what have you. I think it is all risky beyond anything we have seen in my lifetime. I don't see ANY way for a retired person to safely save money. Dollars will go down in value as soon as the Euro crisis morphs into the bankruptcy that it always was. I don't want dollars that will depreciate as fast as a new car. 

I don't want PM's because I see them as vulnerable to govt actions. Heck, our entire LIFE is vulnerable to the govt. 

In my 66 years I had 2 promises made to me. One, that as a GM salaried employee, they would take care of me from the cradle to the grave (quote from my boss back then). Number two was that I pay in to Social Security and I would have a retirement income. Well, GM went bankrupt a while back and is a ward of the govt now, and the govt is well on the way to bankruptcy, too. Oh, I am pretty sure I will get a SS check, but I doubt that it will buy much in a few years.

At this point, I don't have confidence in anything unless it is a tangible good and I have possession of it. What I really need is the store of value that gold and silver promise. Refer to what I said about promises... 

I do think there is one more moon-shot left in gold and particularly in silver (artificially depressed price ATM). That will be right before the dollar implodes. Depending on how long it takes the dollar to hit bottom, you may have 2 years to dump your PM's before they take it from you, or you may have 2 days or less. Risky business, IMHO.

But, I own a half bag of junk silver anyway. No guts, no glory, right?


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## db2469

Machinist...where to put/spend dollars right now IS a dilemma...you say you're prepped but are you really? Prepped for a possible state of anarchy? Prepped for looters and desperate starving people capable of anything? No more security from them needed?
I have a dilemma as well...I'm self-employed so only my wife has a 401k and its substantial but she can't touch it without penalty until she retires (a couple years from now) problem is, if that money is still in the fund when the SHTF, that money is history because so will be the dollar, etc...she is by no means convinced about the impending crisis and doesn't want to touch that or her annuity...like I've said in another thread, I'm not even sure she will bug in with me in our own house if things get really bad outside..
DB


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## Marcus

db,
You and your wife might wish to consider taking out a loan against her 401k. It's better to have cash now than nothing in the future.


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## tac803

db2469 said:


> Machinist...where to put/spend dollars right now IS a dilemma...you say you're prepped but are you really? Prepped for a possible state of anarchy? Prepped for looters and desperate starving people capable of anything? No more security from them needed?
> I have a dilemma as well...I'm self-employed so only my wife has a 401k and its substantial but she can't touch it without penalty until she retires (a couple years from now) problem is, if that money is still in the fund when the SHTF, that money is history because so will be the dollar, etc...she is by no means convinced about the impending crisis and doesn't want to touch that or her annuity...like I've said in another thread, I'm not even sure she will bug in with me in our own house if things get really bad outside..
> DB


DB,
it's a difficult call being in that situation. I'd think long and hard about taking out a loan against a 401K unless I was able to invest it in something that I knew wouldn't lose value in the long term. Problem is, I don't have any clue what that would be other than food, fuel, and other goods. If it crashes to the point that the dollar is worthless then that was a good call...if the crash is averted and nothing happens in the next 10 or 15 years, not having the 401K to help pay for retirement expenses could be a huge problem. I know that a lot of us expect problems in the short term, but if I could predict the timing of a collapse, I'd be rich and wouldn't need a 401K.


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## k0xxx

I tend to agree with *machinist*'s view of how things will play out, although nobody knows for sure. In contrast though, I do have a sizable investment in PM's. I do not believe that there will be another order to turn in PM's, as there was in 1933. My reasoning being that gold coins were still common and it was coined by the Feds. They recalled all of "their" coins, as well as bullion, but exempted gold in the form of jewelry and numismatically important coins. I have a large percent of my gold in such forms. The one exception (flaw) to my theory may be the Gold Eagle bullion coins.

My thinking is that even if the Government confiscates gold again, only idiots would actually comply. The jewelry portion of my gold would be quite easy to sell off in small quantities without drawing attention to me. Selling a wedding ring or a gold chain as needed would be easy. At the very least, should all gold ownership be banned, there would certainly be a black market where PM's are accepted.

Besides, by far the largest portions of my "wealth" is in my land that I own and farm, and my stores of food and other necessities. The PM's are just a small part of my back up plans. I do keep enough cash to keep me going for a while, should the banks close.

I have my cash and PM's stored in a variety of ways, both on site and off, so that the loss of one location would not wipe me out. I am also an advocate of having a decent size and weight, fireproof safe. I also advocate having a smaller fireproof safe, with the bulk of the items at a location, well hidden. Once thieves find, and gain entrance to a large safe, they rarely go looking for another hidden one. YMMV


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## machinist

db2469,

Security can always be improved, I suppose, so yes, I could put more effort and resources into that, but one reaches a point of diminishing returns. And, I'm 66 years old. How long am I going to live, even in the best of situations?  I'm not ready to check out yet, though, so I work on out-thinking the situation. I seem to remember a quote from the Karate Kid movie, where the old guy told the kid the way to deal with a bigger, stronger opponent's blows was, "No be there". And, "Use head for something besides target". 

I am reminded of a teacher, back in 1960 when corporal punishment was allowed and accepted. The hotheaded teacher lost his cool and was going to paddle a belligerent student with a book, of all things. Had the kid stand against the chalkboard for his 3 licks. At the last instant, the kid moved sideways and the teacher smacked his knuckles HARD on the oak chalk tray. OUCH! That pretty well ended the confrontation. Good strategy, in my thinking. 

If there is going to be a fight, I'd be foolish to plan on attending it. 

I'm a pretty good metal worker, so things like security doors don't cost me much, but spending some on materials makes sense. 

I expect my big problem to be how to provide us a living when I'm 75 years old and not too energetic. With the obvious problems in our nanny state's budget, I doubt that Uncle will be supporting us so I'll have to do it. Since saving for that does not seem to be an option, I'll have to be more creative. Something resembling a retail business makes more sense to me, and should be a good investment now.


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## LincTex

haleycoll said:


> I have news for you. A payday loan is a completely valid source of borrowing.


This sounds like completely invalid and useless advice/information. Maybe If I knew I would never have to pay it back... ever. Otherwise... Never.


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## BillS

haleycoll said:


> If you are concerned about whether or not it is a great idea to borrow a cash advance, I have news for you. A payday loan is a completely valid source of borrowing. In fact, you will be glad you did when that emergency comes up and you also need cash right away. You can get cash within just an hour or two if you fill out the quick application online.


I guess if you consider 1000% interest to be a completely valid source of borrowing. If you get payday loans consistently you'll never have money. You'd be much better off to sell stuff on Craigslist in advance to build a $1,000 emergency fund.


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## BillS

tac803 said:


> If it crashes to the point that the dollar is worthless then that was a good call...if the crash is averted and nothing happens in the next 10 or 15 years, not having the 401K to help pay for retirement expenses could be a huge problem. I know that a lot of us expect problems in the short term, but if I could predict the timing of a collapse, I'd be rich and wouldn't need a 401K.


There's no way we go 10 or 15 years before the collapse.


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## BillS

And even if we did, you can expect a 1929-style stock market crash long before that. The economy continues to implode. At some point that implosion is going to speed up rapidly.


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