# What to do with 50 pounds of Yellow Corn Flour



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

I was given 50 pounds of corn flour.
Do I mix it with wheat flour or use it only for flap jacks & corn bread?
I thought I would store it in 1 gallon zip lock bags in the freezer.
What do you think I should do?


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Corn dogs and more ...

http://www.yummly.com/recipes/yellow-corn-flour


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

You can make tortillas, tamales, cornchips, you can add some to chili ricipes.... possibilities are pretty much endless, it even makes decent cakes. 

If you use it to make cornbread you may need/want to use some regular cornmeal along with it to add some texture.

Like you said, it should be stored in the freezer or it till tend to go rancid fairly quickly.


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Found one that made my mouth water right away ... and I just finished eating!

http://www.yummly.com/recipe/Corned-beef-hash-with-chipotle-chiles-and-irish-bacon-345706

*Corned beef hash with chipotle chiles and Irish bacon*

*Ingredients*

1 russet potato (large, peeled and diced into 1/4" cubes) 
2 tbsps vegetable oil (or bacon grease, divided) 
1/2yellow onion (medium, diced) 
2 cloves garlic (minced) 
11/2chiles (canned chipotle, in adobo, finely minced) 
2 cups corned beef (cooked, finely diced) 
4 slices irish bacon (diced) 
salt
pepper
chopped cilantro (for garnishing) 
4 large eggs
flour tortillas (Warmed, for serving)

*Directions*

Place the potatoes in a pot and cover with water. On medium heat, bring the pot to a boil and then boil for 3 minutes. Drain and rinse the potatoes. 
In a large skillet, heat 1 tablespoon of the oil on medium-low heat. Add the onion and cook until translucent, about 5 minutes. Add the garlic and chipotle chile and cook for 30 more seconds. Stir in the potatoes and while stirring occasionally, cook until they are tender and just beginning to crisp, about 5-7 minutes. 
Add to the skillet the diced corned beef and diced Irish bacon. While occasionally stirring, cook until the corned beef and bacon are warm, fragrant, and well combined with the potatoes, about 3-5 minutes. Taste and add salt and pepper. Garnish with chopped cilantro and remove from the heat. 
Meanwhile, in another skillet, heat up the remaining 1 tablespoon of oil and working in batches, fry 4 eggs to your desired preference. (I tend to work both skillets at once, but if you want to make the eggs after the hash, you can reheat the hash before serving if it gets cold). To serve the hash, top with fried eggs and serve with warm tortillas.

Looks amazing in the pictures sitting in a cast-iron pan!!!


----------



## AKPrepper (Mar 18, 2011)

Some really top shelf moonshine!! :cheers: OK....maybe not corn flower...but definetly corn meal. Jus' sayin'.......


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*I wonder If it has been treated with lime, or not?*

This post will be about corn flour, but also about corn for our storage and what is important in using it for healthier food.

Latin Americans eat corn that has been treated with ash or lime. The process is called nixtamalization. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixtamalization



> Nixtamalization[pronunciation?] typically refers to a process for the preparation of maize (corn), or other grain, in which the grain is soaked and cooked in an alkaline solution, usually limewater, and hulled.
> 
> The term can also refer to the removal via an alkali process of the pericarp from other grains such as sorghum. Maize subjected to the nixtamalization process has several benefits over unprocessed grain for food preparation: it is more easily ground; its nutritional value is increased; flavor and aroma are improved; and mycotoxins are reduced. These benefits make nixtamalization a crucial preliminary step for further processing of maize into food products, and the process is employed using both traditional and industrial methods, in the production of tortillas and tortilla chips (but not corn chips), tamales, hominy and many other items.


For people who eat a mostly corn based diet that is not treated with lime, they develop a disease called pellagra. I doubt that 50 pounds of corn flour is enough to cause pellagra in you or your family, however, I personally have tried to buy some lime to fix that possibility for my whole corn.

While I have some whole blue corn in my food stores, I also have some pickling lime to treat it. Dried posole is available in stores around here, but not in the bulk I have looked for. 12 oz. packages of dehydrated posole is better than none. I have found it in a section with Mexican spices. You can buy cans of hominy for posole also. Making posole stew requires a long cook to get the dried posole to pop open, whereas the canned hominy is much closer to that. We also find frozen posole in the freezer at our stores.

You can order a bowl of posole at some Mexican restaurants. I have made it for years with pork. I like it to be spicy and when green chiles come available at roadside stands, posole is one of the dishes I make.

Why corn in food storage? It is inexpensive and brings variety to the diet.


----------



## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> ...I personally have tried to buy some lime to fix that possibility for my whole corn.
> 
> While I have some whole blue corn in my food stores, I also have some pickling lime to treat it.


Where can you buy lime? I see a bunch of stuff, but I can't tell if it is for food processing or not. I'm assuming not, but...does anyone know?

Are we talking about this stuff at Home Depot?










Or this stuff?


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Calcium Hydroxide*

Tacitus, I do not know the real contents of those packages, but they might work. What you need is calcium hydroxide. This thread is good for me. I will personally go searching for some, more than the 2 ounces I have.

http://www.cookingissues.com/2011/03/09/mesoamerican-miracle-megapost-tortillas-and-nixtamalization/



> Calcium Hydroxide, or Cal, the magic mineral:
> 
> Calcium Hydroxide, Ca(OH)2 or slaked lime, is a weakly soluble, alkaline chemical commonly made by burning limestone or seashells at very high temperatures to produce lime (CaO) and then "slaking" the result with water. It is one badass ingredient. In Mexico it is known Cal, Americans often call it "pickling lime," and Thais call it lime paste. It is one of the primary alkaline cooking ingredients in the world (for Harold McGee's interesting article on alkaline cooking in general see here. See the end of this post for some international and awesome non-nixtamal reasons to use Cal). Since cal is only weakly soluble in water, you'll be working with slurries and not solutions. Add Cal to water and break it up to form a cloudy liquid. Most of it won't dissolve. When you cook the corn, add Cal based on the weight of the corn, not the weight of the water. The weight of the water isn't as critical; the Cal is in excess of what can dissolve. As the process uses Cal, more will be dissolved into the water. Recipes vary widely, but a good value seems to be 1 percent Cal by weight of corn (1kg corn gets 10 grams Cal). You'll add water at about two to three times the weight of the corn (I do three, since some evaporates off and I'm making small batches).


----------



## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> Tacitus, I do not know the real contents of those packages, but they might work. What you need is calcium hydroxide.


Thanks. I did some research.

There are at least two kinds of lime:

calcium hydroxide (slaked lime, hydrated lime)
calcium oxide (quick lime, burnt lime)

Turns out that the Home Depot bag is calcium hydroxide, the kind we want. It is much cheaper than the smaller bags. But I guess a question remains: Is there such thing as "food grade calcium hydroxide" and "non-food grade calcium hydroxide?" I don't know.

Edit: The other bag appears to be a third kind of lime: agricultural lime. That is just pulverized limestone or chalk. Not what we are looking for.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, Tacitus. I will go tomorrow, check it out and buy some. Isn't that also the lime that you can use in out houses and the like to help stuff decompose? I have never purchased any for my garden, but have read about it being used.

My daughter is allergic to wheat, has celiac. She is a fan of polenta.

http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2009/03/soft-polenta-soaked-nixtamalized-and-delicious.html

She loves to cook gourmet and to try new things. I like the idea of using corn that has been treated for that purpose, although traditionally it has not been made with the nixtamalized corn.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

You can buy pickling lime (slaked lime) in the grocery store by the pound or bulk if you want a guaranteed food grade product, of course larger quantities are often cheaper.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> You can buy pickling lime (slaked lime) in the grocery store by the pound or bulk if you want a guaranteed food grade product, of course larger quantities are often cheaper.


I have seen it in the past, but this year, I have not seen any.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> I have seen it in the past, but this year, I have not seen any.


All of the Walmarts in this area have it but if you cant find it there -

http://store.mrswagesstore.com/mrswagpiclim.html

Whatever you do, dont fall for the "stuff" on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/PRECISION-FOODS-INC-Pickling-Lime/dp/B00553EGJI
http://www.amazon.com/Mrs-Wages-Pickling-1-Pound-Resealable/dp/B0084LZU1Q

Notice the prices!


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Davarm said:


> All of the Walmarts in this area have it but if you cant find it there -
> 
> http://store.mrswagesstore.com/mrswagpiclim.html
> 
> ...


I do my best to stay away from Wallyworld, but sometimes they have what I need that I can't find anywhere else. I will look there, as well as Home Depot.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> I do my best to stay away from Wallyworld, but sometimes they have what I need that I can't find anywhere else. I will look there, as well as Home Depot.


Walmart isn't my first choice of places to shop but I do go there occasionally.

I do however, make quite a few trips to Home Depot and have never seen any "Pickling Lime" there, I have seen "hydrated lime" there though.

I'm going to find out about the safety of using agricultural hydrated lime for food preparation, my line of thought on that is if you're going to use it to grow food it could/should be safe to lime corn with - But you never know............


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Calcium Hydroxide*



Davarm said:


> Walmart isn't my first choice of places to shop but I do go there occasionally.
> 
> I do however, make quite a few trips to Home Depot and have never seen any "Pickling Lime" there, I have seen "hydrated lime" there though.
> 
> I'm going to find out about the safety of using agricultural hydrated lime for food preparation, my line of thought on that is if you're going to use it to grow food it could/should be safe to lime corn with - But you never know............


I think the real deal is to make sure it is Calcium Hydroxide. I have known that pickling lime would work, but was really unsure of the chemical name. I know there is a process involving ash, but buying Calcium Hydroxide will be a little easier.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Walmart had some Mrs. Wages!*



Davarm said:


> All of the Walmarts in this area have it but if you cant find it there -
> 
> http://store.mrswagesstore.com/mrswagpiclim.html
> 
> ...


So I bought 3 packages from Walmart. I tried Home Depot, but what they had seemed to be a mix of things. I bought one bag to check it out further. It was about $5.00 and some change.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

The Walmart price was around 2.75. So much better than the Amazon price!


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Glad you found some at Wally's.

I have quite a few buckets of corn stored and in about half of them I put a sealed bag of pickling lime so I wont have a bunch of the bags of it around to get popped or torn open.



weedygarden said:


> I think the real deal is to make sure it is Calcium Hydroxide. I have known that pickling lime would work, but was really unsure of the chemical name. I know there is a process involving ash, but buying Calcium Hydroxide will be a little easier.


The "process" using wood ash is for the most part identical to using commercial lye(potassium hydroxide), it tastes about the same.

I'm partial to the hominy or masa made from lime and its not as hazardous to use.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*I thought of that*



Davarm said:


> Glad you found some at Wally's.
> 
> I have quite a few buckets of corn stored and in about half of them I put a sealed bag of pickling lime so I wont have a bunch of the bags of it around to get popped or torn open.
> 
> ...


But I canned my blue corn in #10 cans last fall when I borrowed the canner from the LDS cannery. But I do think it would behoove me to find a way to keep them together. If I get more corn in the future and put it in buckets, I will put a bag of the lime in on the top.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

I ask one simple question about storage & get all kinds of ideals.
I learn thing I did not know I needed to know.
That is one of the thing I like about this site.
You throw out everything you know about a subject & let each person gather what they need.
Weedygarden, I may never use that bit about the lime, but now I have it.
So if I need it, I will know what to do with it.
I wonder if the 3 sister was a way to avoid this very problem of to much corn in the diet.
Most of these tribe eat land & river meats too.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Corn beer!


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

crabapple said:


> I ask one simple question about storage & get all kinds of ideals.
> I learn thing I did not know I needed to know.
> That is one of the thing I like about this site.
> You throw out everything you know about a subject & let each person gather what they need.
> ...


I know we have touched on this subject a while ago. I know that I posted about the need to nixtamalize corn for your health before.

I like that we can share what we know, or need to know, or wonder about, and the best wisdom can be shared. I have worked with people who gather information for themselves. They have felt no need or desire to share what they know so that others can benefit from it. There are many self serving people. When SHTF, having others to help each other, share, give, will preserve any of us longer.

Even though we have touched on it before, I'll bet there are people who never saw that post, weren't in a position to "get" that post, or didn't think about it. It is a good thing to review topics periodically.

While growing and eating the 3 sisters is good, I still think it is not all. Besides preventing pellagra, using the lime releases a nutritional component in the corn that is not available before that. For me, I would rather have what I need for my corn now than not.


----------



## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Just for convenience, I'm reproducing links and some additional information here, all of which verifies weedygarden's posts.

Wikipedia on Pellagra:

Pellagra is a vitamin deficiency disease most commonly caused by a chronic lack of niacin (vitamin B3) in the diet. It can be caused by decreased intake of niacin or tryptophan, and possibly by excessive intake of leucine.
...
Pellagra can be common in people who obtain most of their food energy from maize ("corn" in North American English), notably rural South America, where maize is a staple food. If maize is not nixtamalized, it is a poor source of tryptophan, as well as niacin. Nixtamalization corrects the niacin deficiency, and is a common practice in Native American cultures that grow corn. Following the corn cycle, the symptoms usually appear during spring, increase in the summer due to greater sun exposure, and return the following spring. Indeed, pellagra was once endemic in the poorer states of the U.S. South, such as Mississippi and Alabama....

Wikipedia on Nixtamalization:

Nixtamalization typically refers to a process for the preparation of maize (corn), or other grain, in which the grain is soaked and cooked in an alkaline solution, usually limewater, and hulled. ... The ancient Aztec and Mayan civilizations developed nixtamalization using lime (calcium hydroxide, not the citrus fruit of the same name) and ash (potassium hydroxide) to create alkaline solutions. 
...
During cooking and soaking [in an alkaline solution...see image below], a number of chemical changes take place in the grains of maize. Because plant cell wall components, including hemicellulose and pectin, are highly soluble in alkaline solutions, the kernels soften and their pericarps (hulls) loosen. The grain hydrates and absorbs calcium or potassium (depending on the alkali used) from the cooking solution. Starches swell and gelatinize, and some starches disperse into the liquid. Certain chemicals from the germ are released that allow the cooked grains to be ground more easily, yet make dough made from the grains less likely to tear and break down. Cooking changes the grain's protein matrix, which makes proteins and nutrients from the endosperm of the kernel more available to the human body.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

So from post 24#, it is the lack of B3, not corn that harms a person on a high corn diet.
So here are so of the B3/niacin rich foods that we should eat once a day if you are on a high corn diet after TSHTF.
Peanuts roasted/ peanut butter
Mushrooms/some are better then others.
Green peas/ winter english
seeds, Sunflower,sesame,pumpkin & squash
Lima beans & lentils
Chicken
tuna fish-if you live near the coast or maybe some other fish ??
Lamb
Beef
turkey
I agree we need to treat the corn with lime & am thankful for all post & ideals on this subject.
I also fill that an back up for these ideals are in order.


----------



## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

crabapple said:


> So from post 24#, it is the lack of B3, not corn that harms a person on a high corn diet.
> So here are so of the B3/niacin rich foods that we should eat once a day if you are on a high corn diet after TSHTF....
> I agree we need to teat the corn with lime & am thankful for all post & ideals on this subject.
> I also fill that an back up for these ideals are in order.


Excellent points, Crabapple. Every consideration should be prioritized in view of other considerations. Corn is just one part of my preps. I've been thinking about increasing it, so I will buy some lime (it has other good uses)...but I don't see B3 deficiency being a big problem for me (at least not more so than other deficiencies). In addition to food variety, I have multivitamins.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Thank You!*



crabapple said:


> So from post 24#, it is the lack of B3, not corn that harms a person on a high corn diet.
> So here are so of the B3/niacin rich foods that we should eat once a day if you are on a high corn diet after TSHTF.
> Peanuts roasted/ peanut butter
> Mushrooms/some are better then others.
> ...


Thank you crabapple and Tacitus for the information.

I like that two of the items, squash and beans (lima) are potentially part of the 3 sisters. I am personally unsure of the varieties of beans that are part of the 3 sisters. Lima beans are a variety of bean that I don't buy, cook or eat, just because I don't think they are the best. Maybe I need to change that.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

IMHO, after growing vegetables for 40 years.
I think you should grow what you like to eat.
Three sister can be most any vegetable you like.
It is just that we know that for hundreds of years, humans have grown corn,squash & beans together.
Was it winter squash or summer squash, it was what ever you like it to be.
Try it for 3 years & see what you get & let us know what you learned.
Was it lima or pinto bean or a southern pea, all we know for sure is it was a runner.
I am trying a greasy bean myself.
I like the dent corn, old henry if I can find the seeds.
Summer squash will last longer in the shade of the corn covered with bean vines.
Winter squash (in S.C.) does not need shade.


----------



## shortlegs (Nov 4, 2013)

New here. Ran into this post when looking up cornmeal. Had already seen the info about problems with eating too much corn.
"The reliance on maize, which lacks readily accessible niacin unless cooked with alkali to release it, as a staple caused outbreaks of pellagra throughout the American ". Using baking soda when cooking will release it.

*Alkali, an inorganic chemical compound that functions as a base (the opposite of an acid). . In chemistry, the term is applied to the hydroxides and carbonates of the alkali metals (lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, and cesium) and of ammonia. It is also applied to the hydroxides and oxides of the alkaline-earth metals (beryllium, magnesium, calcium, strontium, and barium).

In industry, the term alkali usually refers to soda ash (sodium carbonate), caustic soda (sodium hydroxide), or baking soda (sodium bicarbonate), but it may also refer to lime, potassium hydroxide, or other bases.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

WELCOME, shortlegs!
I think you are right, never thought of baking soda.
I love this site , their are a lot of friendly, knowledgable people here.
Hope to see more of your post.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Welcome, Shortlegs, and Thank you!*

I appreciate this information.

And crabapple, I think you are right about the fact that it is not about the varieties, but that you are growing something in that group.

I can't eat much squash. I can eat one or two a year and I am good! However, what about cucumbers, or cantaloupes, or other melons? I could do that!

Also, it may be after SHTF that variety in our diets might be relative to variety in the kinds of beans, kinds of corn, kinds of rice that we eat.

In my ongoing experiments of growing varieties of vegetables, etc., I want to work on varieties of beans (100') and corn, and more.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

weedygarden, melons on the ground is fine, but you can run the cucumber up the stakes of corn with the beans or instead of.
You can plant 2-4 corn stalks per square foot(12" X 12"), that is 300 to 600 per 150 feet of garden space. Thats a lot of beans, so you can plant some cucumber on a few stalks.
Have you tried greasy beans?
http://www.heirlooms.org/-seed-catalog.html


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

crabapple said:


> weedygarden, melons on the ground is fine, but you can run the cucumber up the stakes of corn with the beans or instead of.
> You can plant 2-4 corn stalks per square foot(12" X 12"), that is 300 to 600 per 150 feet of garden space. Thats a lot of beans, so you can plant some cucumber on a few stalks.
> Have you tried greasy beans?
> http://www.heirlooms.org/-seed-catalog.html


I have been growing cukes and melons on fences for a number of years. A couple stalks of corn could work the same way.

I have not even heard of greasy beans, but I will check them out. Thank you.


----------



## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Growing cucumbers with corn is EXCELLENT **** protection. We didn't have a garden this past summer, but the summer before that we grew a number of sections of corn (sort of a modified square foot gardening method), and we grew the cukes in two rows all the way around the corn. It trailed on the ground, but we didn't have a problem with funny looking cukes. In any case, we didn't lose a single ear of corn to racoons, whereas previously we had a lot of **** trouble. They just hate cucumbers.


----------



## blindside (Sep 22, 2012)

Tacitus said:


> Thanks. I did some research.
> 
> There are at least two kinds of lime:
> 
> ...


I worked for several summers in Latin America, much of that involved construction using concrete. We would have bags of concrete and lime around the work sites. In Mexico, I was a little weirded out to watch the women making the tortillas and see them have small bags of the same brand of lime by their table and adding pinches of it directly to the tortilla dough. It wasn't until years later that I heard about the benefits of lime in high corn diet areas.

So if that helps for anyone, the treatment of the corn may be as simple as adding lime some to the meal. How much? No clue.


----------



## blindside (Sep 22, 2012)

Magus said:


> Corn beer!


In Ecuador they called that "chicha" and it was.... not good.

I later found out that in the traditional preparation the corn was made into meal by chewing it, the enzymes of the saliva would start the breakdown process of the corn into sugar, and that was used to drive the fermentation of the beer. I am sure the fermentation would kill any other bacteria that resulted from that method, but I am glad I didn't know about it then.


----------



## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

blindside, that is a new one on me.
After starting this thread & hearing about the problem, I thought that this had started in Latin America. This was a guess because they have used a lot of corn for hundreds of years, but someone said this happen in the South after the Civil war.
Guess it could happen anywhere there is too little supply of grains other than corn.


----------

