# How Much Will A Shelter Cost?



## VUnder

I need all the great minds to come together and offer advice on this. Suppose I was to build shelters out of buried containers. I need to figure an estimate of the costs of the project. I will list what I have and can do.

I can haul a container, so nobody will know where it is going.

I have a trackhoe, bobcat, two tractors, backhoe, dump trucks, concrete pump, and three cranes. One crane is large enough to set a 40' container. It is a 30k with 60' reach, rough terrain, 4wd, 4wheel steer.

The ground is high with plenty of slope to allow for natural drainage. The ground has nice top soil, but just a few feet down, is solid clay gravel. 

The most important part, I have a crew.

I have enough tires to fill and bury beside the containers to keep dirt from caving.

I also have ICF experience, and a lot of it. Insulated concrete forms have been thought of as well. The forms are the size of six cinder blocks. Cost 16.00 each, a yard of concrete fills 11 ICF blocks. Plus, you have to buy rebar, every 2' vertical, every 32" horizontal. I have a couple hundred of the blocks already, left from previous jobs. A hundred blocks will build a 12' x16' room at 8' tall.


I am not trying to do this as a money maker. Basically, I need the foresight to not overlook any costs. I have a few hundred gallons of diesel. I am seeking a minimum I should expect to pay, and that is why I am requesting a "think tank" on my behalf. I am sure many others will appreciate the information that we will discover as we proceed with this.

I know that if it is several containers, that it will be cheaper on a per container basis. So, for discussion, we are burying five 20' x 40' containers, basically side by side, maybe 10' apart, give or take.

If I get a time estimate, then I can do a labor estimate. I have plenty of room for the excess dirt to be put out of the way. The steps to approach this are the most important. Method.


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## kejmack

You need to reinforce those shipping containers if you plan to bury them. Only the corners are reinforced. They will collapse under the weight of dirt.


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## Woody

I would also think they would rust, even if coated eventually rust would take hold. In another thread I remember something about moisture inside as well, condensation on the inside. I would go with concrete for the structure with lots of drainage around it.


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## BillS

You might want to consider spraying rustoleum on the outside and inside. Maybe you'd want to put the containers in a hole about three feet deep for insulation purposes. Maybe you could attach some insulation on the inside too. You could also put two containers side by side and take out part of the walls so it becomes like a double wide.

Since you have the equipment you could build a root house too.


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## TheAnt

I have considered this as well and actually thats how I found this site. I think it was BunkerBob (I could be wrong) that did something similar and posted about it on this site and did a YouTube video of it. He did it the right way... any other way would be prone to all kinda failures I think.

Personally I lost interest in burying containers and I think its best to just pour concrete or use preformed concrete box culverts. I understand you know a lot about underground construction and I am curious why then you would be intersted in something so prone to failure when you know how to do it correctly?


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## VUnder

TheAnt said:


> I have considered this as well and actually thats how I found this site. I think it was BunkerBob (I could be wrong) that did something similar and posted about it on this site and did a YouTube video of it. He did it the right way... any other way would be prone to all kinda failures I think.
> 
> Personally I lost interest in burying containers and I think its best to just pour concrete or use preformed concrete box culverts. I understand you know a lot about underground construction and I am curious why then you would be intersted in something so prone to failure when you know how to do it correctly?
> 
> Well, I am trying to get the most for the least. Let me run this by you. What if I dug a large hole on the side of a hill. Poured a large slab with drainage, so let's say everything is good up to the top of slab. Next, build a perimeter wall around the slab out of the ICF blocks and make it the height of the shipping containers. Then, put the containers in and leave a few feet in between them and a few feet on the ends, and enough to open the doors. Then, cover the whole thing with tin, from ICF to ICF. Let the tin just span the spaces between the containers. I can pour the bottom slab myself, without calling the concrete company. Then, with the perimeter walls laid up and not having any concrete in them, and the tin across the tops of the containers, and plastic over the tin, I can call the concrete trucks out and pour it just like a regular slab. The only exception being that my footings are going to eat up a lot of concrete, in their minds anyway. I plan on having temporary posts inside the containers to support the weight until the concrete sets. Pour a 12" slab. Having the perimeter ICF wall will handle all the caving issues. Now, will the containers support the weight? I think they will, as long as it is braced for the initial weight of the wet mud. But, maybe there is an engineer on here that can tell me one way or the other. I don't want to ask anybody here, and get the coffee shop talk started. Critique me.


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## VUnder

kejmack said:


> You need to reinforce those shipping containers if you plan to bury them. Only the corners are reinforced. They will collapse under the weight of dirt.


If I did bury them straight in the dirt, I would keep the dirt away from them. Either I would stand plastic barrels full of sand and keep them off of the container, or I would have tires filled with sand and stacked a foot or so away from the container. But, whatever you use, make sure you bolt the barrels together, and bolt the tires together. Then you backfill against them and that holds your backfill instead of the container. There won't be any ground pressure against the container. Eventually it will be, but it will be years away before it happens.

I had a thought before of pouring a reinforced slab and then using the crane to let it down beside the container, standing up edgeways. Then it would be like having a poured wall, but with a lot less difficulty.

Then, go inside the container and brace it up for some shelves, with posts, and those will be the support when concrete is poured on the top, but the beauty is, that it is support you can leave and not have to tear out. I am all about working smarter and not harder.


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## VUnder

BillS said:


> You might want to consider spraying rustoleum on the outside and inside. Maybe you'd want to put the containers in a hole about three feet deep for insulation purposes. Maybe you could attach some insulation on the inside too. You could also put two containers side by side and take out part of the walls so it becomes like a double wide.
> 
> Since you have the equipment you could build a root house too.


BillS, what about "cold tar"? They use that a lot in the oilfield to protect things. Probably about like bedliner spray, just messy. But, it does stay on really good.


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## VUnder

Woody said:


> I would also think they would rust, even if coated eventually rust would take hold. In another thread I remember something about moisture inside as well, condensation on the inside. I would go with concrete for the structure with lots of drainage around it.


Woody, I have dug up some metal septic tanks that were 50+ years old. One, my dad remembers someone driving over it when he was a kid and caving it in. They put an old plymouth car hood on it for a top. The tank was still good, and the hood was too. Maybe if you were heating and bringing fresh outside air into it, may be a different story. I will check into it more, thanks.


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## Domeguy

Somewhere back in the posts someone suggested burying the containers with the floor on top. The floor is reinforced to carry alot of weight. Make sure that the floor (roof) is braced for the lateral loads. Also, how deep are you going to bury it? You also should look into a coat of spray foam applied over a good primer. Seals it and provides a thermal break to reduce or eliminate condensation.

Gotta put in a plug for the dome structures i can build, much less material and cost then alot less then some of the ideas of the ideas here. And, they can be bermed or buried, or make a pretty good shelter above ground. ICF's are expensive.


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## VUnder

I would think that burying them upside down would still present the same problem because the floor can cave up unless it is on a slab. I have seen where some bury and pour on top without having a slab underneath, but you can get away with a lot of things in good ground.

Are you doing geometric domes? I have built with the domes where you use the triangle pieces, and keep them all shored up until you put the last one in the top.

I had to drive a lot yesterday. Had time to think. I have never seen a well that has caved in. Septic tanks are different because they have water pressure inside to offset the ground pressure. What if you dug a deep hole and poured your slab in a circle? Then lay blocks or ICF's around the outside of your circle, with rebar and came inside a few feet, and laid another circle, up to grade. Another circle inside of that. Post in the middle. That would take care of the side caving. I was thinking you could even still pour a square slab on top of the whole thing, so it wouldn't be so obvious. The only time I will have a concrete truck on the property will be to pour the top. Then it will be just like pouring any other slab, and won't arouse any suspicion.

Explain your process, and how your domes go up, as this is a place of ideas and solutions.


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## Fn/Form

I've seen ConEx'es stacked pretty high... I don't think it's so much the weight but how the weight is distributed across the top. Simple "X" reinforcement across the room might be enough, depending on how much soil (calculate wet weight) is placed on top.

If this is to be used for radiation escape I would consider the cost of the basic fiberglass (sealed, vapor proof) capsules.

Re: round septic tanks... I would think the round design would hold very well if the surrounding terrain was stable and properly tamped.

The monolithic domes are pretty interesting, too. The few I've seen are rebar frames, a pressurized dome (blower) forming the outer wall, and shotcrete from the inside.

I guess you've seen this?
Concrete Canvas - Rapidly Deployable Infrastructure


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## Domeguy

The monolithic domes are started with a ring beam foundation, then an airform is inflated, then foam, rebar, and concrete from the inside. Very strong structures using half the concrete of ICF's. Can build without the foam for just sheds. FEMA classifies these domes as 'near absolute protection' and has funded them for tornado shelters. 

See my post in vendors. 

Cheers!


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## VUnder

I looked at your post. Good deal, looks good and it has to be strong. With the dome shape, wind resistant. I would have to have a crew here bo build it, though. I don't like that part. But, if I was building a new structure I would seriously consider it. Kind of an above ground missile silo. Good product.


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## VUnder

I checked it out, and I like it. I like the ideas. There are a lot of people as guests on here all the time. We need to be providing links and information. I feel more informed than I was, plus I feel like I am learning. Both are good things.


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## Domeguy

Thanks, 
Been involved with building domes since the late 70's and started doing it as a business in 2007. It's a proven technology, solid engineering, cost effective, and very adaptable. Hoping someday we can get the lending industry to get their head ou. . . . . . . accept them. Anyway, they are what i build.


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## The_Blob

Domeguy said:


> Thanks,
> Been involved with building domes since the late 70's and started doing it as a business in 2007. It's a proven technology, solid engineering, cost effective, and very adaptable. Hoping someday we can get the lending industry to get their head ou. . . . . . . accept them. Anyway, they are what i build.


WHY would they want to put $$$ in something that will last hundreds of years with very little maintenance?... They couldn't make more $$$ on 'home improvement' loans that way, like they can with the crappy 2x4 exterior wall constructed houses that up until this year were cropping up everywhere like fungus. 

yes, bankers (and car salesmen) are bastards


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## TheAnt

Vunder, 
This is the best example I have found for the ideal way to bury a container. You could do something similar and I think it would work fine (but what do i know).

This is the YouTube video I mistakenly thought was BunkerBobs... dont know why I thought that?? :dunno:





I just think that actually building a REAL underground living area would be much more useful and permanent. The above sort of thing would work fine as a storage room and emergency bunker but Im interested in living space for long term use (especially if SHTF).


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## oldvet

Ant:

I agree, it would seem to me to be a whole lot easier and cheaper to just go ahead and dig the size hole you want pour a pad and build a reinforced cinderblock building with stairs and vents and then cover the darn thing up.


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## NaeKid

Ant - that video was created by anothe member here on the board ... great work done for a "wine cellar", eh?


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## VUnder

Domeguy said:


> Thanks,
> Been involved with building domes since the late 70's and started doing it as a business in 2007. It's a proven technology, solid engineering, cost effective, and very adaptable. Hoping someday we can get the lending industry to get their head ou. . . . . . . accept them. Anyway, they are what i build.


As a builder I don't like to be asked "how much a square foot?" because there are so many different kinds of structures. But, if I ask you some specifics, maybe you can answer. Let's say a dome structure, 30' diameter with 8' walls, and the ground is level and ready to go when you get there, and water and electricity are available. About how much would one of these structures cost a person? Just a rough guesstimate will be fine so we can use as a cost comparison to other means.


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## TheAnt

NaeKid said:


> Ant - that video was created by anothe member here on the board ... great work done for a "wine cellar", eh?


I wondered.... I thought I got that originally from this forum. That little video is what got me to log on here with you fellas!


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## TheAnt

I hope I am not off topic on this but I have wondered what it would cost and how well it would work to build underground with preformed concrete box culverts:










As you can see those are tall enough to build a room inside with 8' plus ceilings. Has anyone got any experience with these?


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## Dixie

TheAnt said:


> I hope I am not off topic on this but I have wondered what it would cost and how well it would work to build underground with preformed concrete box culverts:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see those are tall enough to build a room inside with 8' plus ceilings. Has anyone got any experience with these?


*I do hope someone can answer your question as I have thought the same thing. Our county was using them to connect a river to the water treatment plant up the streeet from us. *


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## VUnder

I can ask a guy down the road. He is the county road foreman. He is a couple years younger than me, maybe 40. I grew up with him, but he is recuperating from his first heart attack. I looks like they tongue and groove together. Then they are caulked with some flexible caulking, which is a good thing. You have to set with a crane, or trackhoe, and come a long them together. Could be made at home, if you know what I mean. I have heard him and his brother talking about them.

They were buying used tanker train cars for 65.00 a linear foot. Those are good and thick too. Use them to replace all the small bridges when they go bad, just put two train car culverts.


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## Country Living

I guess we're the only ones on this forum with a prefab shelter. It cost about $3,100 installed several years ago. It's FEMA 320 certified and the door is Texas Tech wind tunnel tested and approved. It has electricity and a phone line and it takes us about 10 seconds to get to it from our front door.

Having (and paying attention to) weather alert radios is the only way this whole process really works. We have one weather alert radio in the house and the other is in the workshop. The one in the workshop is hooked to outside speakers so we can hear the alert from just about any place on the ranch. We stage the shelter when the radio goes off with a tornado warning for this area. We go in the shelter when the watch alert goes off. There are no deviations from this plan. We usually watch a DVD if we think we're going to be in the shelter for any period of time.

One of the lessons learned from the Joplin tornadoes is people did not take the alerts seriously because - in their minds - they're usually false alarms. NOAA said their messages should have been stronger so more people would have taken shelter faster.

On another note - there seems to be a false sense of security for those people who think their police scanners act as an alert radio. _They are not the same thing_. An alert radio sits quiety until the National Weather Service either sends out their weekly test or a weather event if happening in that area. The fingernails-on-chalkboard tone is enough to wake the deepest sleeper.


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## TheAnt

VUnder said:


> I can ask a guy down the road. He is the county road foreman. He is a couple years younger than me, maybe 40. I grew up with him, but he is recuperating from his first heart attack. I looks like they tongue and groove together. Then they are caulked with some flexible caulking, which is a good thing. You have to set with a crane, or trackhoe, and come a long them together. Could be made at home, if you know what I mean. I have heard him and his brother talking about them.
> 
> They were buying used tanker train cars for 65.00 a linear foot. Those are good and thick too. Use them to replace all the small bridges when they go bad, just put two train car culverts.


They are tongue and groove (well sorta) with some type of built in caulk or gasket. I would definitely want to take extra measures to seal the joints if I were planning to make a living space out of them but I dont see that being a major proble (correct me if Im wrong though).

If significantly cheaper this is the method I would like to use (box culverts).


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## Domeguy

Hi Ant,

Having worked on a several underground structures, i'll make a couple of sugestions. 

Along with waterproofing you'll have to have a thermal break to keep down condensation, best on the outside. Concrete is not waterproof. if you put your waterproofing on the inside, moisture will always be working to break the bond between it & the concrete. Thermal break, then waterproofing on the outside (against the dirt) the bond is stable. Use spray foam on the outside, then waterproof that and backfill. This also seals up the joints better then any caulk.

Drill all your holes and do all that coating before you set them in the ground, don't forget the floor. 

Don't plan on using a woodstove, or any other, flame type heating. You're structure will be so airtight, there's a real danger of CO poisioning. Conventional housing changes the air volumn inside several times a day. One of the reasons you will save so much energy is because your air exchange will be a fraction of that. Ditto with CO2. Plan enough passive circulation to bring fresh air in. I use energy recovery ventilators (ERV) but they are reliant on elec. There are standards for air exchange (active and passive) in the building codes. 

If you want to use a flame type heat, install it seperate and pipe it in thru a radiant floor. Doesn't have to be an expensive system, you won't need much.

Remember to figure in your excavation AND installation. Won't be able to set those big boxes with a bobcat.

Let us know how much they cost. If they're really cost effective, i'll build one in conjuction with my dome!

Pretty excited about this, who'da thought, box culverts!


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## TheAnt

Domeguy said:


> Hi Ant,
> 
> Having worked on a several underground structures, i'll make a couple of sugestions.
> 
> Along with waterproofing you'll have to have a thermal break to keep down condensation, best on the outside. Concrete is not waterproof. if you put your waterproofing on the inside, moisture will always be working to break the bond between it & the concrete. Thermal break, then waterproofing on the outside (against the dirt) the bond is stable. Use spray foam on the outside, then waterproof that and backfill. This also seals up the joints better then any caulk.
> 
> Drill all your holes and do all that coating before you set them in the ground, don't forget the floor.
> 
> Don't plan on using a woodstove, or any other, flame type heating. You're structure will be so airtight, there's a real danger of CO poisioning. Conventional housing changes the air volumn inside several times a day. One of the reasons you will save so much energy is because your air exchange will be a fraction of that. Ditto with CO2. Plan enough passive circulation to bring fresh air in. I use energy recovery ventilators (ERV) but they are reliant on elec. There are standards for air exchange (active and passive) in the building codes.
> 
> If you want to use a flame type heat, install it seperate and pipe it in thru a radiant floor. Doesn't have to be an expensive system, you won't need much.
> 
> Remember to figure in your excavation AND installation. Won't be able to set those big boxes with a bobcat.
> 
> Let us know how much they cost. If they're really cost effective, i'll build one in conjuction with my dome!
> 
> Pretty excited about this, who'da thought, box culverts!


Thank you for the information and suggestions. I am yet several years away from even owning the land to put this on but I too am excited about the possibilities and will be looking for more information on this.

I am curious about how you say to waterproof it. You say to do the under side too before it is set in place in the ground. If I do this I will still have to deal with the joints between sections. This is obviously the weak point in the water barrier. Any suggestions for how this would be done?

Has anyone else dealt with these so that they might give us an idea of the cost for various sizes? I know these things come in width of 20' and height of 12' which would be perfect. Could even have a raised floor through which to run plumbing and electric as well as for storage. Any information is welcome!


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## Domeguy

Not so sure these would be cost effective. Been doing some research and found 2009 prices for an 8x12' (outside) from 2 different suppliers at about $650 a linear foot. Thats $6500 for a 10' section 2009 price. Concrete and steel have gone up since then. Pretty expensive.


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## TheAnt

Domeguy said:


> Not so sure these would be cost effective. Been doing some research and found 2009 prices for an 8x12' (outside) from 2 different suppliers at about $650 a linear foot. Thats $6500 for a 10' section 2009 price. Concrete and steel have gone up since then. Pretty expensive.


I dont like the sound of that! I would think it would have to be cheaper than forming and pooring myself or why else would box culverts be the preferred method for drainage?


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## Dixie

*Nor I, Ant. That sure burst my bubble. Well, back to the poured concrete!! 
This is what I'm thinking, see if it sounds correct to all the builders on here. Remember, I'm a woman so don't look for all the details just assurance that I'm heading in the correct way:
First, I want to dig a hole, put gravel down then pour a slab. Then, either pour the walls or use cement blocks (which ever is the cheapest) using rebar to strengthen the walls.
I want to coat the outside of the walls with a rubber coating and then cover that with a rubberized sheath. After that, dig a trench around the base of the shelter, and install a french drain. Then back fill. 
I want a drain in a certain area of the shelter and it has to be three feet under ground. I have it designed in my mind, with a drain, air vents and doors to be used, 
I want it to be a storm, root and fallout shelter, so when I hit hubby up for it, I know what I'm asking for is correct. He was a builder before the military so if his health will hold out, I'm sure he can do it. 
Please critique this and let me know if there is a better way of making a shelter that will be almost problem free when the SHTF.*


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## Domeguy

The challenge for all of these methods is the roof. The engineering alone for a buried concrete structure wtih a flat roof would cost thousands of $. When you build a concrete structure above ground (think ICF's or concrete blocks) you're looking at 6-8" of concrete wall just to support a traditional roof. Underground building is expensive! If you just want a root cellar or temp shelter then go back to the buried container for DIY, or a pre-engineered storm type shelter like Country Living has.

If you want something bigger look into monolithic dome structures like i build, they can be engineered to bury with much less materials.


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## lickit

*dugout shelters cost nothing, if you get the shoring*

timbers free, from constuction site dumpsters. If you want to treat them agains rot, the chemicals cost a bit and they then give off vapors that aint good to have in an enclosed area with you. Best to shore up with fiberglass/plastic, actually. Keep the shelter small and you won't need much shoring. I disvalue metal for this job, since metal detectors might give away your shelter. Still, if you leave nothing of value in it, having it found by somebody, pre-shtf, need not be a total disaster.


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## TopTop

Hi folks! I see this thread has been dormant for a while, I hope it is ok to chime in. Several years ago I picked up several storage trailers, AKA old freight box trailers, for free. It cost about $75 each to have them towed to my place. I used my backhoe to dig holes for the landing gear & axles to set in, put the trailer in place & backfilled. Now the floor is only a foot or so above ground so no steps are needed & I think they would survive any wind we might get here. They make great storage for feed & hay or whatever, with nice hardwood floors. Anyway, one of them is an old stainless steel Fruehauf, about 35 ft long. The others are 40 ft aluminum. I wonder if these might be a better choice for under ground than a steel container. Especially the stainless one. If this is a DIY project & you are not getting permits (I assume you do not want the world to know about it) I wondered about just prepping the excavation with gravel or a slab, set the trailers (torch off the running gear first) then encase them in concrete. The trailers walls could serve as one side of the forms, the other could be built from scrap & sealed with felt paper. It would not need much strength because you could backfill as the concrete goes in & just leave the forms in the ground. Of course the roof would be the most expensive. I guess you could do the same as the floors in commercial buildings. Steel beams or trusses & corrugated decking welded in with temporary jacks underneath while pouring the 'crete. Or even permanent lolly columns placed between the trailers. Then hide it with a few inches of dirt & grass & make sure no one ever drives over it with a heavy vehicle. I'm not a builder so I know there are lots of missing details, like setting columns to support the roof, sealing against water intrusion, a network of corrugated drainage pipes, etc. One advantage is the trailers could be set a few inches above the slab, & with a sump pump or natural drainage if you are on a hill the inside should stay dry. Anyway, this is an interesting site & I look forward to reading more.


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## BillT

Getting good Storage Trailers for free is pretty amazing. Around here, to buy one that is worthy for storage, is usually a minimum of $1000. I went to see one for about $600 or $700 once and it was pretty much junk. It's also amazing that you got Aluminum ones, seeing that Aluminum scrap right now is pretty high. You sure got a great deal. 

If you ever proceed with your project, it would be interesting to see some pictures of it.

Bill


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## stand

*Wow. Lots more hassle and expense than I will tolerate*

You will be letting lots of people know, because of all the noise and "sign" you create. I suggest you get over your demands for "luxury" after shtf, and think in terms of pick and shovel, at night, not far from your current location.


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## VUnder

May be smart to excavate under an existing structure, nobody will know. Does anybody have good, creative ideas for a concealed entry? I would want to use it as a cellar until it is time to really use it. Beware of the eye in the sky.


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## VUnder

lickit said:


> timbers free, from constuction site dumpsters. If you want to treat them agains rot, the chemicals cost a bit and they then give off vapors that aint good to have in an enclosed area with you. Best to shore up with fiberglass/plastic, actually. Keep the shelter small and you won't need much shoring. I disvalue metal for this job, since metal detectors might give away your shelter. Still, if you leave nothing of value in it, having it found by somebody, pre-shtf, need not be a total disaster.


If you throw enough trash metal on the surface all around your shelter area, the metal detectors won't find you.


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## VUnder

Domeguy said:


> The challenge for all of these methods is the roof. The engineering alone for a buried concrete structure wtih a flat roof would cost thousands of $. When you build a concrete structure above ground (think ICF's or concrete blocks) you're looking at 6-8" of concrete wall just to support a traditional roof. Underground building is expensive! If you just want a root cellar or temp shelter then go back to the buried container for DIY, or a pre-engineered storm type shelter like Country Living has.
> 
> If you want something bigger look into monolithic dome structures like i build, they can be engineered to bury with much less materials.


Just for information, I have used the ICF's for underground. Basements, mainly, and I am just stating for informational purposes only. In the ones we use, there is only 3-4" of concrete, depending on which block you use. A yard will pour 13 foam blocks, which are 16" x 48". The concrete top would work if you left your bar sticking out of the tops of the blocks to tie your roof and walls together. If the top is made dome shaped with reinforcement, all should be fine. You can even build round with the blocks if you want to.

The domes are better, if you are going to have this hired out, but I can do it myself in the darkness of night with the ICF, just give me some spray foam, some rebar, some twistie ties, and some quickrete.


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## Fn/Form

VUnder said:


> May be smart to excavate under an existing structure, nobody will know. Does anybody have good, creative ideas for a concealed entry? I would want to use it as a cellar until it is time to really use it. Beware of the eye in the sky.


Texas has no income tax... but they make up for it in property tax.

The tax man cruises the road or uses the state aircraft pool to conduct fly by checks on property improvements.


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## VUnder

so if you do it inside and under an existing structure.....


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## stanb999

My day job is in precast / prestressed concrete... I've worked from grunt to management. IMHO skip the culvert. They aren't ideal and are expensive. 
Want a structure? Figure it like this. 500 a yard, delivered and installed. A little more for prestressed a little less for precast. The issue you will have isn't so much the above cost of the structure. It's the fact that using standard items is much cheaper. Your not asking for a standard item. Unless you know what to ask for... So ask.


For a "shelter" ... A prefab tank would cost less than building it. A few thousand at most. A 8x10x8' engineered structure would cost about 3000 +/- 15%. Just don't tell them what it is for, they don't care or wish to know. Precasters are like used car sales men. Cash and carry is the process. They don't ask or tell. Especially if you use cash. Dig a hole. They deliver it into the hole. Done. Slip the driver a 100 bucks if the company claims they can't or wont do it or better don't even mention it.

1000's of septics are done on sat morning... without a permit. 

P.S. you don't want a septic tank or fluid tank. These are engineered to be full of water. The water is needed to hold back the earth. You want a pump out or electrical tank... These are designed to be empty.



House on next post.


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## stanb999

Underground house...

My suggestion is prestressed concrete. The company will have engineers to do the simple load calcs. They likely won't charge you.. IF you can talk to them directly. They design bridges and utility buildings all day... They will welcome the change. Believe me. It will be a much stronger structure... It could be build to amazing pressure ratings. Cheaply. They can add insulation, electrical, plumbing. They can waterproof it. All for the cost of around 25-30 dollars a square foot +/- 20% (a small structure will me more/ larger less. You can and will be able to get it approved by your local building code officials.... A stamp of a PE goes a long way!

As with the geo dome. I'd suggest you waterproof the outside. Place good drains, etc.

Here is the plan for ours. When we finally pay off the land and put cash aside for it. This will be built with cash. All that will be seen from the road is a barn... It will be the garage that is on the surface.


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## VUnder

Thank you for the information. This is for discussion and information so others can read about many options and ways to do things. Around here, if the septic people deliver, they call the health inspector, so I have learned how to get around it too, but some get busted because they didn't call me first, to tell them how to go about it. When we really stop and think about how much government agencies hover over us, it is hard to believe we put up with it in the first place. Licenses, inspections, permits, environmental impact surveys, approvals, etc... just skip it all and be silencia about it.


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