# Puzzling question



## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations. 

Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity. 

If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


----------



## Frugal_Farmers (Dec 13, 2010)

kejmack said:


> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


Been there--done that. We did our lunar black out experiments over the winter months. 24 hours without power except to keep the freezers up and running. Heat and cooking was on the wood burning stove.

We learned a lot from those experiments and have since cut back on our freezer Also encourage everyone to test your ability to do without power for 24 hours.


----------



## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


I do agree that unless you live where sound is not a problem, a genset running is a dead give-a-way. But...

Having solar to run freezers is not out of the question. And guess what? It's silent and the "gas" is free.

Solar should be more and more in preppers plans.

I didn't shut the power off, but Camille did 4 weeks, Fredrick did 3 days, Elana did 4 days and Katrina 14 days....been there done it and it ain't fun.

Jimmy


----------



## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

We will be tied to the grid for the forseeable future. If we lose power wnd fuel for the gennie we'll be in a bad way for a while. Prepping takes time and money, and it seems when I have plenty of one I don't have near enough of the other to accomplish big things like a transition to solar power, as much as I'd like to.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'm preparing for life without electricity or running water. I expect hyperinflation to get so bad that there won't be either one for a long time.


----------



## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


Good point. But.....

We have 3 gennys they are all the "whisper" quiet ones not a lot louder than a central a/c unit running. So noise isn't an issue there. As far as the gas running a genny for a few hours a day just enough to keep the freeze and fridge cold enough doesn't take a huge amount of fuel. Our large one will run that way for about 3 days on one 5 gallon tank of fuel, and I keep at least 75-100 gallons of fuel on hand at all times. Add a under construction solar generator set up. we are in decent shape. While a long term shtf or teotwawki scenerio would/ could lead to an eventual lead to running out of fuel. But in that time we would use up perishable foods. Then our dry and canned preps will kick in.

As far as shutting off the power.... We have vectren as our power company. Just about everytime it thinks about raining power goes out for a few hours. If it is a bad storm we have been without grid power for as much as 3 weeks in a strech before,


----------



## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We have different "levels" of preps, some things are for a complete SHTF situation, some are for a short term problem. We have a generator (3 to be exact ) & 1 freezer but we do not plan to use them long term or even in all situations. We know how much food we have in the freezer & approximately how much time, supplies & fuel it would take to get it canned or dried before we ran out of generator fuel. The generator & freezer at our house are conveniences & are no way figured into our SHTF preps.


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

When all manmade sounds (motors, etc.) are gone, even those "whisper quiet" genny's will be heard for quite a ways. Just as quiet as an air conditioner? Here in the quiet woods of NW Montana, in an area that is totally off-grid, I can hear a neighbor's generator 2 miles away in a sound-reducing shed. You'll be surprised how far sounds carry when that background hum of electricity is gone, and when the chaos of people running about or wind blowing or rain falling, is gone. 

I still love a comment Naekid made last year, something to the effect of that those who will survive are those who can let go of the world as we knew it and adapt to/embrace the world we will be living in after TEOTWAWKI.

In addition to wondering about all those people putting so much money and effort into trying to be set up to maintain electricity after TSHTF, I shrug at those who so desperately worry about keeping their vehicles EMP-proof! Where are they going to drive? And how long will they be able to drive when no one else can? Talk about being a target! If an EMP truly does happen AND it takes out the grid and cars/transportation, it will likely be far too dangerous to be out and about driving. There will be a lot of desperate and panicked people.


----------



## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


I've noticed the same thing. Anyone on city water is going to have a time with that. Even storing that much water is hard. We have a generator if we were in serious need to use one, we live in the country and have means of turning the well pump to manual. As a camper, we have duel-fuel lanterns and stoves and plenty of Coleman fuel stocked up. In the event of an EMP, gasoline will be siphoned for them. The food to keep cold is the hardest for anyone. Among racks of canned meats here, we have a small deepfreezer with just meat in it. I suggest that if u have no way of keeping food cold besides the fridge, buy a metal trashcan with lid and bury it in the shade with a few inches sticking up. These are great even in hot weather to keep things cool.


----------



## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> When all manmade sounds (motors, etc.) are gone, even those "whisper quiet" genny's will be heard for quite a ways. Just as quiet as an air conditioner? Here in the quiet woods of NW Montana, in an area that is totally off-grid, I can hear a neighbor's generator 2 miles away in a sound-reducing shed. You'll be surprised how far sounds carry when that background hum of electricity is gone, and when the chaos of people running about or wind blowing or rain falling, is gone.
> 
> I still love a comment Naekid made last year, something to the effect of that those who will survive are those who can let go of the world as we knew it and adapt to/embrace the world we will be living in after TEOTWAWKI.
> 
> In addition to wondering about all those people putting so much money and effort into trying to be set up to maintain electricity after TSHTF, I shrug at those who so desperately worry about keeping their vehicles EMP-proof! Where are they going to drive? And how long will they be able to drive when no one else can? Talk about being a target! If an EMP truly does happen AND it takes out the grid and cars/transportation, it will likely be far too dangerous to be out and about driving. There will be a lot of desperate and panicked people.


True..Hopefully we will have our solar genny built soon and won't have to worry about the noise. My main dependance in the gennys are now for small shtf situations. ( Bad storms etc that knock out power short term.) As I said before in a major SHTF or teotwawki We'll use up those supplies first and won't need the generators.


----------



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

gypsysue said:


> I still love a comment Naekid made last year, something to the effect of that those who will survive are those who can let go of the world as we knew it and adapt to/embrace the world we will be living in after TEOTWAWKI.
> 
> In addition to wondering about all those people putting so much money and effort into trying to be set up to maintain electricity after TSHTF, I shrug at those who so desperately worry about keeping their vehicles EMP-proof! Where are they going to drive? And how long will they be able to drive when no one else can? Talk about being a target! If an EMP truly does happen AND it takes out the grid and cars/transportation, it will likely be far too dangerous to be out and about driving. There will be a lot of desperate and panicked people.


I agree completely with Naekid's point; "Survive, Adapt, Overcome" is my basic outlook on most of these situations. I enjoy electricity, it certainly makes things easier... but I've spent two weeks in the woods without it, and could get by for quite some time without it.

As for the EMP-proofing of autos, I believe that the main reason most people are trying to maintain a functioning vehicle is for a "bug out" situation, where staying in place is not viable. I know that would be my case; if it happens while I am home, I've got either a 30 mile commute to my nearest option, or about 150 miles to my best (current) option. I certainly harbor no false hope that I will be driving around the wasteland in the last of the V8 police interceptors...


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Ah, bug out vehicles, yes Turtle, I hadn't thought about that as for why people are so worried about keeping a vehicle running after an EMP. There are, however, a lot of people talking about storing hundreds and even thousands of gallons of gas, even to the extent of buried tanks. I don't think those people plan on bugging out! But if things quiet down and stabilize, it might become safe to once more drive around. One might wonder "where to?", but things like trade/barter centers or to check on family and friends come to mind.

oldsoldier, I'm glad to hear you're working toward solar so you won't need your gennys during the most dangerous times. Solar panels have come down in price so much that almost everyone can afford at least one, along with something like a cheap 350-watt inverter from a box or hardware store, to at least power lights. It might even be more economical than buying a lot of oil lamps, oil, and extra wicks and globes. On the other hand, oil lamps are more portable and can be easily moved where light is needed.

It's good to know how to live without electricity, although I see nothing wrong with people using whatever electrical things they want to while the good times last. But you need to really look at what all you're doing that requires electricity and give thought to how you would accomplish those things without it. Especially the essential things like cooking, washing (dishes, people, clothes, houses/floors), lighting, etc. Look at what you need fuel for (heating, transportation) and think about what you would do without it. If you live in a cold climate and don't have a woodstove, what do you do when the power goes out? When natural gas, propane, or heating oil is gone? Even if you do have a woodstove, what hand tools (saws, axes, splitting mauls) do you have for cutting firewood?

This is kind of like preaching to the choir because I know just about everyone who reads this has already thought about these things!


----------



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Yeah, personally, I would just grab a horse and use that for transportation. I know of several in the area that I could use, if need be. (no, I don't mean stealing them; I mean friends with farms/multiple horses)

I don't really understand the folks who feel the need for hundreds or thousands of gallons of fuel, either. I figure that in the event of a complete societal collapse, we will probably go back to the 1800s-level of travelling less than 100 miles for what we need, or eventually, back to the medieval-level of travelling less than 30 miles for what we need.

I know this has gotten off of the original topic of electricity, but not by far; both gasoline and electricity are modern conveniences with which we could all do without. I believe that the relience on either speaks to a mindset.


----------



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I bought a 4KW generator years ago after two ice storms two weeks apart left us without electricity for several days each time in the middle of winter. I've never had to use it! I start it up monthly. I did use it for powering my leaf blower a time or two. It will maintain my freezer and frig and also power the well pump, but only so long as I have fuel for it. Thats the weakness... fuel.

I've looked many times at solar. I just can't afford it. Besides, the storage batteries won't last but for a few years. Then what?

For me, water would be the most important should I be forced to live without electricity. I've been considering installing a deep well hand pump onto my existing well. I have the ability to heat with wood, and have an abundant supply in the woods out back. Still, its an existence I don't look forward to.


----------



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Jezcruzen said:


> I bought a 4KW generator years ago after two ice storms two weeks apart left us without electricity for several days each time in the middle of winter. I've never had to use it! I start it up monthly. I did use it for powering my leaf blower a time or two. It will maintain my freezer and frig and also power the well pump, but only so long as I have fuel for it. Thats the weakness... fuel.
> 
> I've looked many times at solar. I just can't afford it. Besides, the storage batteries won't last but for a few years. Then what?
> 
> For me, water would be the most important should I be forced to live without electricity. I've been considering installing a deep well hand pump onto my existing well. I have the ability to heat with wood, and have an abundant supply in the woods out back. Still, its an existence I don't look forward to.


I agree: Water would be my most immediate concern, as well. I live on the East Coast, so there is a lot of water, but most of it is very polluted. My ideal fall-back location has a well that is capped, but could be opened and used very easily, and is not far away from Deer Park (yep, the one where the spring water comes from).

I also agree very much that it would be an existence to which I do not look forward. Anyone who _hopes_ for these situation is off their rocker.

I think that for most, the question shouldn't be, "How can I continue to have electricity?", but instead, "How can replace the things on which I depend upon electricity?" . Dependence is never a good thing.


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Dependence and addictions. Two things preppers need to consider alternatives for or find a way to live without when the time comes.

If you can't pump water from anywhere, consider ways to filter and purify (boiling?) the water you have access to, whether it's surface water of lakes, streams, etc., or rainwater.

Filter and purify don't mean the same thing. Filter the water though sand, crushed charcoal, layers of fabric, whatever, to remove debris. Boil to kill pathogens. These things, however, might not remove chemical contaminants. 

A hand-pump on your well is a possibility, to fall back on. Safer water to be had that way, for sure.


----------



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I have great tasting well water. I just need a dependable/alternative means of obtaining it.

I bought a Royal Berky water filter just in case. I also have two screened rain barrels on two corners of the house that together will hold 110 gal. I would drink it in a pinch using the Berky. Currently, I use them for irrigating my garden, which is downhill from the barrels.

I maintain a supply of water stored in the basement, but that is intended more for emergencies of a short duration. I discovered to my chagrin that just flushing my toilets takes 5 gal. ! 

Turtle, I'm in the middle of Virginia, so we aren't that far apart.


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> I discovered to my chagrin that just flushing my toilets takes 5 gal.


And no doubt you've heard the saying "if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down" for saving water for this function?  Kind of an icky thought in good times, but there it is.

Sounds like you've planned well for your water situation.


----------



## goodoleboy8205 (Mar 25, 2011)

Im sure most of us that plan to use generators intend it to be only for short term use. perhaps at the most a year. There are other ways to get around the convience of electricity. 
As far as freezers go you need to look back a hundred years ago. How did they do this? An Ice house. An ice house is much like a root cellar but you harvest ice in the coldest part of the winter and pack it into the ice house with lots of saw dust. 
Storing meat is done by salt curing. I know a lot of you dont like the idea of using salt in that way but if you know how to cook salt cured meat it isnt that salty and it accually has a great flavor that cant be reproduced with modern processes. 
A lot of what is your normal diet will be unheard of if a true TEOTWAWKI. food will be seasonal and some of what is your regular diet now will be unheard of. 
A lot of the preps that most of you are doing is for short term. I consider short term as less than 5 years. What I mean is are you prepared to change your lifestyle to prior to the industrial age? A lot of skills and technology has been lost over the years. The way our ancestors lived years ago is unknown today.


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

kejmack said:


> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


I intend to preserve a 2011 lifestyle, NOT a 1811 one...

In way of rebuttal I offer this:

If you want to find out if you are really prepared, figure out how to produce your OWN power... for a LIFETIME.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

this goes for engineering refrigeration units, furnaces, methane digesters, crafting pharmaceuticals and anything ELSE you can!

the "good ol' days", were NOT that 'good'

------------------------------------------------------------------

this is meant as a positive post, NOT an attack


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

I run my house totally on solar and have for a little over 16 years now. I also have three back up gennies and use them as needed for "extra" power as needed. I would advise all to get into solar as quickly as possible. It takes time to learn and if you wait untill the last moments, you could find yourself in just as bad circumstances as before you started with it. It takes time to learn, and lots of it.


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> I intend to preserve a 2011 lifestyle, NOT a 1811 one...


Well, preserving my simple, off-grid 2011 lifestyle won't be so hard, since we produce most of what we eat, clean with, heat with, etc.

I'm still working on figuring out how to make Pepsi, Ho-Ho's, good corn chips, etc.! 

There's no way to actually preserve today's lifestyle if the S seriously HTF, since we won't be able to travel, shop, go to movies and restaurants, drive to and from work, call family and friends on the phone, buy new video games, etc.

I concede that you are probably referring to certain "civilized" aspects of 2011's lifestyle! However, unless you're quite aged when TSHTF, that's an awful lot of conveniences to buy and store to get you through all those years. It can be done, though.


----------



## goodoleboy8205 (Mar 25, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> I intend to preserve a 2011 lifestyle, NOT a 1811 one...
> 
> In way of rebuttal I offer this:
> 
> ...


I agree it would be nice to call in a pizza but I feel like I need to start at a period that I know can make work and be able to sustain at that level. Will it be easy? no It will be hard. Trust me I will have modern conviences.


----------



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Yeah, you're probably right. I think I would be okay with losing most modern trappings and ....

Wait, what?



gypsysue said:


> ....buy new video games, etc.
> 
> .


_What the crap?!?!?!? That is NOT okay!!!!_



I'm just kidding... I go for months at a time without turning my Xbox on.


----------



## JackDanielGarrett (Sep 27, 2010)

I recently heard a very good way of attaining water from your well, with the electricity off. He bought a fuel pump, connected it to wires and a clear hose, lowered it into his well, hooked the electric cord to his small solar panel and retrieved water for this well. Now we all know you wont get enough pressure to wash your car.......but it will give you SOME water.
I thought it was a handy idea, just wanted to share.
Jack


----------



## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree about the noise. We have a generator but should the worst happen we will start canning all we have in the freezers. I have 2 pressure canners and 2 waterbath canners. We have free standing burners outdoors where we can use all of the above at one time if necessary. I don't look forward to this type of life especially here in the hot and humid south, but we are as ready as we can afford to be at this time. We have already canned about 1200 jars of food so far this year and I still have aprox. 1000 canning jars that are empty at this time and enough lids and rings to do the job.


----------



## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

While we have 2 gens for loss of power due to storms or whatever, our preps really have no dependency on whether we have power or not. In a worst-case scenario, I would have no intention of running a generator anyway. :dunno:

Tim


----------



## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

Nadja said:


> I run my house totally on solar and have for a little over 16 years now. I also have three back up gennies and use them as needed for "extra" power as needed. I would advise all to get into solar as quickly as possible. It takes time to learn and if you wait untill the last moments, you could find yourself in just as bad circumstances as before you started with it. It takes time to learn, and lots of it.


Nadja..... I would love to go solar, unfortunatlly here I face a double problem. In addition to the initial cost for the panels and such, the local scumbag power company bought a law and slipped it through on us. Reads something like.......

" A power sources are the sole property of vectren energy corporation and use thereof is at the disgression of vectren energy. Use of said energies must be purchased from said provider. Un authorized use of said services is constituted as theft and punishable by law. These sourses include but are not limited to. Electrical power generated by said company, Natural gas, as well as *SOLAR AND OR WIND * generated power.:gaah: So according to the law vectren also owns the sun and wind!!! Which means if I want solar power I have to purchase the expensive collection equipment then pay the power company to use their sun/ wind.


----------



## Nutcase (Nov 28, 2009)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


First off, any prepper worth his salt is not going to run the generator 24/7. You only run it for a few hours to keep the fridge cool and for cooking/power to see what's going on.

Second, any prepper worth his salt is going to have a store of gas. I have around 100 gallons and a few 5 gallon containers for easy access.

Finally I *DARE* you to try to take my generator. First off it's bolted to a 300 lb concrete block inside a steel, grounded enclosure which is also bolted to the slab. Also, I have a *LOT* of guns and ammo and will be damned if some unprepared moron is going to take my stuff. :club:


----------



## ra5451 (Mar 11, 2011)

He's a true Nutcase. I LIKE you :congrat:



Nutcase said:


> First off, any prepper worth his salt is not going to run the generator 24/7. You only run it for a few hours to keep the fridge cool and for cooking/power to see what's going on.
> 
> Second, any prepper worth his salt is going to have a store of gas. I have around 100 gallons and a few 5 gallon containers for easy access.
> 
> Finally I *DARE* you to try to take my generator. First off it's bolted to a 300 lb concrete block inside a steel, grounded enclosure which is also bolted to the slab. Also, I have a *LOT* of guns and ammo and will be damned if some unprepared moron is going to take my stuff. :club:


----------



## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


We are addicted to electricity. I will not seek "recovery" until the intervention. I have my cooking oils (two 35# jugs) in my freezer. Because oils deteriorate faster at room temperature we freeze ours and "stop the clock" on them. We keep frozen foods (meat, fish and poultry) in the freezers along with water that takes up space as food is removed. Our freezers are a component of our preps. In a total SHTF situation I realize maintaining the freezers will be problematic, however, until that time comes we are able to store most foods at TIME Zero. The clock will start when the freezers quit.

Most of the situations we have had to deal with have been for periods of less than 1 week. I know in the future the times will get longer and longer but as long as I keep enough gasoline on hand for several weeks I will be able to extend the life of some of our stores. Just using the genny two hours a day (enough to maintain the freezers) in the spring and fall and twice a day in the summer I have enough fuel to go for about a month. In the Winter I also run the genny for heat. We have wood stoves but unless I am home to fire them up we will go with GFA. Due to my unique circumstances, which I will not go into, this is the safest and surest way to go.

I totally agree we are far too reliant on the grid. We are working on alternate methodologies for elctricity, natural gas and propane. However, as long as I have access I will feed my "addiction". We will do well even without the grid but I will enjoy the soft life as long as I can. Our solar panels are just not enough as the are. We do intend to increase capacity (both storage and generation) when the bucks become available.


----------



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

It would cost upwards of $30K to retro-fit my house for solar. Thats quite a chunk of change for an aging retired guy! 

The cheaper solar setups often advertised as "solar generators" are hardly useful in running a household. It might run several light bulbs in the evening, but little else. It takes lots of panels and storage batteries to even approach the electricity demands of most households.

I have a genny, as I mentioned earlier. So do most of my neighbors. I wouldn't hesitate to use it at anytime. We live in a secluded "subdivision" of sorts on a private road with one way in and one way out. 

As someone mentioned, should a long-term absence of electricity occur, we would simply dehydrate or can whats in the freezer so we wouldn't loose it. I have the means to accomplish that task without electricity.

I don't foresee a total absence of fuels or electricity. Both, however, could one day be rationed or cost so much due to inflation that most can only afford a small amount of either. Keeping that big 4X4 on the road will be difficult if not impossible. Alternate means of transportation will be used, and I see it everyday.

Small scooters have become abundant in my area. Mostly used by teenagers and those who simply have no other means of transport, they cost several hundred dollars and if the engine is less that 1hp, no license or insurance is legally required. They get upwards of 70 to 90 MPG. Its cheap transportation.

Have a bicycle? A good one? You should if you are in an area where riding a bike for serious transportation is realistic. I have four or five. Buy quality and learn to maintain it. 

Turtle mentioned horses. Not a bad idea. They could become a transportation mainstay once again for some. I have a two-stall horse barn I could house then in and some area for graze, but all I know about horses is that they eat at one end and poop at the other!


----------



## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I have an electric scooter that looks like a small motorcycle. It's top speed is about 25 mph on the flat, and it has a headlight, turn-signals, mirrors, and tail light/ brake light. I can charge it on our solar power system for "free" and ride it 30 to 50 miles on a charge. Free transportation.

However, it doesn't do so well on our 3 miles of gravel road. When I get to the pavement it does good. It's quiet, too. If anyone else is off-grid and looking for an effortless and free form of transportation, it's something to look into. We paid $300 for this 4 years ago. (We charge the battery for our boat's trolling motor with our solar panels too. Free fishing on our small wake-free lake!)

Horses are a great idea IF you know you'll be able to feed them after TSHTF. They take a lot of hay in the winter, if you live where it snows. They need water, too, and their feet need trimmingn even if you don't have a farrier shoe them. 

Tugboats, that's pretty good planning...freezing your cooking oil (and whatever else) to 'stop the clock' for your storage. True, after TSHTF you probably won't be able to maintain the freezers forever, but you'll be way ahead in the game with what's basically "fresh" goods.


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Solar is of course very expensive, however, if you look into the govt "rebate" programs, and in my area as well as others the state tax rebates, you can sometimes get a full system for about 1/3 of the cost. Look into it. May save your butt sometime soon.


----------



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

We used the rebates when we increased the insulation in the attic and installed replacement windows. What few realize is that the rebate is one pot of money. You don't get a "fresh" rebate each time. It is drawn down from a set amount, so after one, two, or three improvements, depending on how much each one costs, your rebate "well" runs dry.


----------



## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

About four months ago I bught three sets of solar solar power from "Harbor Freight" it contains everything (including 2 12 W light bulbs) but for the 12 V batteries......two sets (of three pannels 15 W each) has been on 24/7 for those four months with no problem.....I use it for my 4 tv cameras, recorder and monitor.....plus for my lap top.......one set for back up.

Also have a 120W pannel for my security system, that one is on stand by.

Six generators from 225 W up to 5,000 W........the 5,000 would be use once a day for one hour for the freezer and frig.......my favorite one is the TWO STROKES (gas mixed with oil) that will run for 8 hours with one gallon.


----------



## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I have to agree with gypsysue, letting go and just doing without would be prudent.

A while back, we lived in the suburbs, an a duplex surrounded by people not just here illegally, but they seemed to be either submissive (meaning so fearful of they kept silent) to gang members, or were outright gang members. This was not planned, it happened around us very quickly. During this time we did what we could to lay low and work hard to get the &*#@$** out of that place. We were so concerned about it, we took great caution to not spend any amount of money, coming back and forth from any shopping trips, as this would inidcate we were in any means anything but the poorest of the poor. Otherwise, it is a guarantee we would have attracted attention and been the subject of curiousity or break ins.

Same now for our preps. We have good neighbors now, but if things go haywire, I want the outside to be visually unassuming as well as ANYTHING that someone could see or hear that would attract them to us thinking we had something they would want (and willing to be potentially violent about it). I plan to live as we did in that awful place we escaped, to live simply, and not attract anyone. 

Our little rental looks unassuming, simple, a bit less than perfect. Our one problem we need to tackle is a well with an electric pump. We could have a generator, but there you go with our current thinking, or we simply will have to set up some rainwater system for all but our drinking water. Were we live (NW Oregon) rain is plentiful.


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

We have been without electric before,plus we are campers or were for over 40 years,sometime primitive.
Generators will be good to keep food safe until we can can or dehydrate it.We don't freeze much anyway,sold freezer a few years agnly fridge freezer now.
Busy building raised beds and getting soil ready for new garden and small lean to greenhouse,old garden still in fair shape.Also have chickens for eggs.
I worry about chicken and dog food,but maybe the eggs will help feed dogs and plant crop for chics and they free range so they get bugs now.
Not stockpiling ,can't afford to.


----------



## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Hurricanes knock out power, and momma and a young family really appreciates having the AC and babysitter (DVD player) on while parents work. Likewise older folk who may need it.

Medical machines for the young (CPAP) and older are sometimes more than just quality of life.


----------



## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Jezcruzen said:


> ...
> I've looked many times at solar. I just can't afford it. Besides, the storage batteries won't last but for a few years. Then what?...


The right batteries can last 20+ years. Even the smaller sealed lead acid you are probably referring to can last several years if properly cared for. It mostly depends on the temperature they're operated in. At around 90 degrees on many models the battery life is cut in HALF.

I spent several years fixing uninterruptible power supplies. There are several quality manufacturers out there with maintenance and "maintenance-free" batteries that will do what you want. None of them are really maintenance-free, but some are truly minimal maintenance and safe for indoor use.


----------



## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I find it very puzzling that so many "preppers" on this site and others are dependent on electricity for their preparations.
> 
> Nothing draws attention to your preparations more than a noisy generator running. People have freezers full of food and think they are going to have a generator to run. Where is the gasoline going to come from? When there is a major disaster, gas stations can not pump gas. If a SHTF event or TEOTWAWKI occurs, there isn't going to be any gasoline or electricity.
> 
> If you want to find out if you are really prepared, turn off the electricity for a weekend.


Nothing wrong with using modern conveniences while they are still here. I would be jerking my meats instead of freezing. Canning instead of freezing. Storing dry goods. The old folks made it on flour, corn meal, sugar, salt pork, and coffee. That is all they bought when they went to the store once a year. They killed animals for meats, but they had to eat it fresh, no way to keep it, other than jerk.


----------



## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

oldsoldier said:


> " A power sources are the sole property of vectren energy corporation and use thereof is at the disgression of vectren energy. Use of said energies must be purchased from said provider. . . Which means if I want solar power I have to purchase the expensive collection equipment then pay the power company to use their sun/ wind.


That is SERIOUSLY messed up!


----------



## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

power is my one exposure.

1st I really want a back up generator, yest there is noise but for short term power outage around here it would be ok longer term I am looking at a solar unit would not runn entir house but still enough to operate the well and (running water and a freezer and frig.


----------



## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> When all manmade sounds (motors, etc.) are gone, even those "whisper quiet" genny's will be heard for quite a ways. Just as quiet as an air conditioner? Here in the quiet woods of NW Montana, in an area that is totally off-grid, I can hear a neighbor's generator 2 miles away in a sound-reducing shed. You'll be surprised how far sounds carry when that background hum of electricity is gone, and when the chaos of people running about or wind blowing or rain falling, is gone.
> 
> I still love a comment Naekid made last year, something to the effect of that those who will survive are those who can let go of the world as we knew it and adapt to/embrace the world we will be living in after TEOTWAWKI.
> 
> In addition to wondering about all those people putting so much money and effort into trying to be set up to maintain electricity after TSHTF, I shrug at those who so desperately worry about keeping their vehicles EMP-proof! Where are they going to drive? And how long will they be able to drive when no one else can? Talk about being a target! If an EMP truly does happen AND it takes out the grid and cars/transportation, it will likely be far too dangerous to be out and about driving. There will be a lot of desperate and panicked people.


Very well put GS ! I never looked at it quite that way.. If there is gonna be trouble, let it come to me instead of the reverse... a working vehicle would be a bullet magnet for sure!...

My mom is living here now and we were sitting on the porch and I guess my head was cocked over a bit, she asked what I was listening to?? I had to smile when I said.. " the quiet"... she looked at me funny so I said can you hear the sirens ? she said ..no? I said..."Exactly" !... nothing is louder then quiet...in a nice way... she also said whats that I keep hearing.. ? I pointed at the tops of these towering East TX pine trees swaying... she said...well I'll be ! hahaah ...92 years old and still amazed by the simple sound of a breeze in the tree tops ... lived in the big city way too long

I love it here!..


----------



## rextex (Sep 14, 2011)

I agree a generator would be dangerous after SHTF. I have one to use when theres a power outage but not sure if I'd use it or not in really bad times. Probably not.


----------



## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

rextex said:


> I agree a generator would be dangerous after SHTF.


Agreed!

This past spring our road was shut down about a mile away for 2 days, from 6AM till 6PM while a crew poured the deck on a new bridge. The quiet was deafening. I stayed home those 2 days and worked around here. I couldn't hardly believe how loud the log splitter was when there wasn't any noise from traffic. And we only have 400 or so cars a day go by.


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

oldsoldier said:


> Nadja..... I would love to go solar, unfortunatlly here I face a double problem. In addition to the initial cost for the panels and such, the local scumbag power company bought a law and slipped it through on us. Reads something like.......
> 
> " A power sources are the sole property of vectren energy corporation and use thereof is at the disgression of vectren energy. Use of said energies must be purchased from said provider. Un authorized use of said services is constituted as theft and punishable by law. These sourses include but are not limited to. Electrical power generated by said company, Natural gas, as well as *SOLAR AND OR WIND * generated power.:gaah: So according to the law vectren also owns the sun and wind!!! Which means if I want solar power I have to purchase the expensive collection equipment then pay the power company to use their sun/ wind.


I have heard this a couple of times lately. However, it is only the place where you live. You should find a way to move out of there. Here in Az. not only can you get a tax rebate on your solar, but also a state rebate, and on top of that, if you hook it up for grid pay/play, aps, the local power mongers actually write you out a check for about 30% as soon as your grid hooked !If you live in a state that pulls that shi? on you, you should really find a way to get out of there, as it will only get worse as time goes on. Next, they will charge you for publicly displaying a mail box, or having the audacity to park your car/truck in front of your house. May as well move to land of the lunnies, (calif) and be done with it.


----------



## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

oldsoldier said:


> Nadja..... I would love to go solar, unfortunatlly here I face a double problem. In addition to the initial cost for the panels and such, the local scumbag power company bought a law and slipped it through on us. Reads something like.......
> 
> " A power sources are the sole property of vectren energy corporation and use thereof is at the disgression of vectren energy. Use of said energies must be purchased from said provider. Un authorized use of said services is constituted as theft and punishable by law. These sourses include but are not limited to. Electrical power generated by said company, Natural gas, as well as *SOLAR AND OR WIND * generated power.:gaah: So according to the law vectren also owns the sun and wind!!! Which means if I want solar power I have to purchase the expensive collection equipment then pay the power company to use their sun/ wind.


oldsoldier, can you provide a gov't link to that law? I'd like to read it in context/entirety.

Having worked with statutes in some capacity I know how misleading the wording can be. From your recollection above I see "generated by said company" and their specified generation methods. I don't see a problem with you having your own solar/wind setup.


----------



## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I ain't the sharpest tack*

*in the box but I do know that "nobody owns the wind or the sun"... that's a fact.. they may be able to cut you off from their grid but that would have to be all... hell that's like saying if you look at the stars at night you gotta pay somebody...

But what do I know.. just MHO...*


----------



## caveman (Sep 27, 2011)

I agree. Dependency on any current non- self-sustaining technology is a handicap, and possibly an Achilles heel in a true EOTW scenario.


----------



## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

*" A power sources are the sole property of vectren energy corporation and use thereof is at the disgression of vectren energy. Use of said energies must be purchased from said provider. Un authorized use of said services is constituted as theft and punishable by law. These sourses include but are not limited to. Electrical power generated by said company, Natural gas, as well as SOLAR AND OR WIND generated power.*

***************

I'm wondering if that law means that once the power (from any and all sources) is introduced into the commercial grid, it then belongs to the power company regardless of the source of the power? I can just imagine some lefty claiming that they shouldn't have to pay for electricity produced via solar because that power came from the sun. :nuts: On the other hand, maybe I'm completely wrong. :dunno:


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Well...... my solar is just that, mine ! I cannot imagine buying all the expensive stuff, installing it all myself, just to pay the power co. for it. Something is very very wrong with this picture. Of course I am off grid, with no power lines within 6 miles of me. Even so, I would not hook up to the grid should it come. 

I remember years ago, I lived in the very north of Phoenix, just 100 yards north of the city limits. Well, my well and property were just fine, then came the "city' and all hel# broke out. They demanded that I cap my well, and hook up to the chemically treated city junk they called water and pay them for it, not to mention having to pay to put their pip in about 50 yards. I sold out and moved first. I will not be ran like a slot machine only to put out my work for their profit. If in fact you look at just about anything the cities, counties, states and gobernut do, it is only for gain. Do you think all those gobernut workers do all this for a paycheck ? Not me. I see all the graft in their directions and certainly taken advantage of . Heck, a lot of them were caught by whatever means they used these days watching porn on their taxpayer owned computers. I refuse to buy them computers, pay them much more then they are worth just so they can play games and watch porn all day. My .02 worth.


----------



## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

To my way of thinking, they are referring to power already on the grid. Theft of it would be akin to you tapping into a power line in front of your house. :dunno:
I do know a friend of mine had a HS Science teacher whose back yard was adjacent to one of the big power line right-of-ways (the ones with the giant steel towers). He invented a dish (very much like one of the old satellite tv dishes- heck, it may have been one) to pick up power from the air. He was sued by the power co. but came out on top when the judge ruled if it was in the air and he was smart enough to recover it, it was his. Power co. eventually wound up buying the excess power recovered and all rights to his invention. I only wish i was half that smart. :gaah:

Tim


----------



## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*A diesel generator can be run on peanut oil,*

or soybean oil. However, so many will be dead, 1 year after shtf, that such generators (and lots of diesel fuel, too) will be lying around for the taking. So why buy any, when there are much more important things to spend money upon, like Microfiched (or Kindle, solar charger) survival libraries, powdered Veternarian antibiotics, .22 ammo for bartering later, 1/10th oz gold coins for the years after barter no longer suffices, etc.

SOME gas generators are pretty quiet, and you COULD use a loud one to lure in the looters, then either detonate the homemade claymore mines or just shoot the bastards. Or maybe have some good looking food there, full of poison, etc?


----------

