# Bob/Ghb getting robbed



## dustinglodney (Apr 3, 2013)

I was driving today and saw a guy walking with a nice backpack on his back and started thinking that if my family was starving to death there is nothing that I wouldn't do to feed them. Taking this poor guys pack crossed my mind and its a very scary thought. What are your thoughts about protecting your pack?


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

In a bad situation being well armed, not alone, travel at night, and stay off roads all come to mind.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Yup, armed an outa sight. When it all heads south, it don't matter what ya got on yer back er carryin (so the color er kinda pack ain't gonna matter) somebody gonna try an take it away from ya. Ya either gotta protect it, leave it er die.

Not gonna be pleasant times. Gonna be times fer hard folks.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Post SHTF crime will be like modern day crime; thieves will seek out the easiest and weakest victims who seem woefully under equipped and unprepared to defend themselves. So a large part of the battle will simply to be too either stay out of sight or present yourself as someone not to be messed with.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> In a bad situation being well armed, not alone, travel at night, and stay off roads all come to mind.


I do not see well in the dark. I would have to have a flash light out and would be tripping over all kinds of stuff. Marauders would see me coming. Staying off roads, can do.


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## dustinglodney (Apr 3, 2013)

In Los angels city it's going to be hard to travel out of sight. I'm never more then 30-40 miles from home. I'm more concerned about either getting tony kids school or home. It is great to talk about things and I'm glad I can do it here because at home my wife doesn't want to hear anything about it. She says I'll scare the kids. Thanks everyone.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

To the prepper's that are concerned about traveling at night. Spend the money a get some night vision goggles. You can have the upper hand.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Tweto said:


> To the prepper's that are concerned about traveling at night. Spend the money a get some night vision goggles. You can have the upper hand.


Thanks for this, Tweto. It never occurred to me. I will look for some. Any suggestions on what and where?

Adding more. I looked, and yikes, they seem pricey, so again, any suggestions for what and where?


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> Thanks for this, Tweto. It never occurred to me. I will look for some. Any suggestions on what and where?
> 
> Adding more. I looked, and yikes, they seem pricey, so again, any suggestions for what and where?


They are pricey, I purchased some Gen 1 night vision for about $200 20 years ago and I think you can still get them for less then that now, They aren't the best but allow you see fairly well for maybe 50 feet. If you can afford them Gen 3 is what to get, but the last time I checked the prices, they were getting close to $3000.

All I can say is if you find yourself at night and your life is at risk and you pull out the night vision and night turns into day and you can see the bad guys all around and none of them know you are there, that money will seem well spent.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I would agree with Sentry18, think about who you would rob (realistically, don't kid yourself that you would be taking on the Crips, the Hell's Angels, and Rambo without breaking a sweat) maybe they look like a hipster, a well dressed executive or a soccer mom, or just a "typical, well off middle aged white person". Either way you probably don't want to look like that person.
Think about who you would least like to rob; maybe a veteran, maybe a slightly unstable person down on their luck, someone who may have dangerous connections and backup, etc. Basically someone who seems confident, competent and aware of their surroundings, who may be armed, and doesn't have anything overtly valuable that you can see. I think that is who you want to look like (if you have to be seen).


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

This is fine, as far as it goes.. you can project strength and not get robbed by people like you, and also low level criminals, who will look for easier targets. However, once the truely violent in our society are unleashed, you either have to be unseen, or have large numbers of heavily armed people on your side. 

Honestly, the op is a braver man than I. There is no way I would live in the greater Los Angeles area right now. At most theres three days of food on the shelves. Its mostly a desert, kept hydrated by the current structure. Failure of that structure meams just surviving thw environment is a serious challenge. And then theres the massive population density. Odds are not good that a prson could get out alive even if they had the means, tools, and training... just sayin


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

If I was going to have to travel through Los Angeles in a bad situation I would most likely want to look like a bum. Old pants with cargo pockets and an oversized flannel can hold a good bit of gear. Have a wine cork you burn the end of with a Bic and rub on exposed skin to appear dirty and a raggity old beanie and you are set as long as you can carry a whole lot of ammo. Night Vision would be a huge asset to scout a block before traveling down it. Good luck.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

In the military we call these 'soft targets' and 'hard targets'! You want to make yourself a 'hard target', meaning unpredictable, changing routes or routines often, etc...basically making it harder to predict what you are doing and what you are capable of. I like the idea of looking like a bumb but at the same time it makes it easy for someone who is trying to establish themselves as someone in control by picking on a weak appearing target of opportunity! Remember at the earliest stages of SHTF there will be some unruly people trying to establish themselves as 'the one'!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Ghetto lowlife will generally steer clear of bum white dudes downtown. Just mutter to yourself and rant incoherently in a random fashion so they think you're schizo


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> Think about who you would least like to rob; maybe a veteran, maybe a slightly unstable person down on their luck...


I would be least likely to rob a homeless dude pushing a shopping cart full of useless crap


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

cqp33 and CrackbottomLouis have said what I was trying to, trying to look like someone who doesn't necessarily have much worth taking, while also is a bit scary to mess with, and yet not overtly looking like a trouble maker or someone there is a lot of animosity against is not an easy proposition. In different places that will mean different things, for instance in a nearby city to me I would want to look either like a ******* or the type of native who might be a gang member. When I used to have to be in major cities more often I could leave my old pickup truck unlocked with thousands of dollars in tools in it and the fancy car next to it would get broken into for a piddly little stereo (mine had a pretty decent system in it for awhile.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

OldCoot had it exactly... out of sight and armed. Make it hard to find you either through staying away from the roads or like LincTex said, appear to not have anything worth getting. Then, if they push the issue being armed will allow you to further look like "not worth the effort." I wouldn't be pushing a homeless shopping cart full of crap (hiding my good stuff) with an AR over my shoulder... but a hand gun tucked under a ripped up dirty shirt while pushing that cart would probably be pretty ideal... at least in an urban environment. Rural, just stay way off the roads.

As to night vision... Gen3+ $2700. https://www.readymaderesources.com/...ee-shipping-free-weapons-mount/prod_2675.html


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> Ghetto lowlife will generally steer clear of bum white dudes downtown.
> 
> Just mutter to yourself and rant incoherently in a random fashion so they think you're schizo
> 
> Easy now, my wife says I resemble that remark....


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

I think the at home break-ins would be an indication. Majority are homes of the elderly. Soft targets.

On one side of the city block is Rambo pushing a cart full of food. On the other side of the block is a elderly lady pushing a cart full of food. Which is the soft target?

The bank across the street from Police Headquarters or the bank in the Podunk Town?

The successful hunting party returning to camp or the 10 year boy with a string of fish?

How will I protect my pack? By one of two ways. If #1 failed then #2.

1. By being as invisible as I could possible be.
2. By appearing to be a young Rambo living close to a power base and visibly armed to the teeth.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

If it's a real SHTF situation, market has collapsed, trucks aren't running, gas stations are closed and autos are shut down, just have a place where you can lay low and undetected for at least 3-4 weeks, food-water, keep your strength, have patience for a few weeks, after that, just the people who have prepared and kept out of sight will be around and they should be trust worthy, the dead beats,junkies and thieves, bottom feeders ect. should be 3/4 starved by the end of 3 weeks.. I live in the woods so for me it's no problem, but if I lived in a town or the city, that's what I would do.


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## dustinglodney (Apr 3, 2013)

lotsoflead said:


> If it's a real SHTF situation, market has collapsed, trucks aren't running, gas stations are closed and autos are shut down, just have a place where you can lay low and undetected for at least 3-4 weeks, food-water, keep your strength, have patience for a few weeks, after that, just the people who have prepared and kept out of sight will be around and they should be trust worthy, the dead beats,junkies and thieves, bottom feeders ect. should be 3/4 starved by the end of 3 weeks.. I live in the woods so for me it's no problem, but if I lived in a town or the city, that's what I would do.


I like this answer. Problem is I'm right in the middle of Los Angeles.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

dustinglodney said:


> I like this answer. Problem is I'm right in the middle of Los Angeles.


I think the best answer to your original question is: Dont put yourself into that position! if at all possible, don't be that guy on the road walking with no place to go, just looking for Something.. Anything...

get prepped, keep enough preps in your car to get home and then some..., keep your GHB very low key, plain earth tones bags, definitely not anything that looks like "hey I shop where Rambo shops, come gank me to see what I have in the ruck!"

Nobody can predict everything, but everything you do that minimizes your risk in the event that really bad things happen is a very good step in the right direction!


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

weedygarden said:


> Thanks for this, Tweto. It never occurred to me. I will look for some. Any suggestions on what and where?
> 
> Adding more. I looked, and yikes, they seem pricey, so again, any suggestions for what and where?


This is still the best online comparison of generational capabilities and shortcomings. Training is important--for example, sometimes there is a point at dawn where NODs are overwhelmed by approaching light yet you can't see with the naked eye yet.
forum.snipershide.com/tactical-night-vision-company/178348-night-vision-generation-comparison-guide.html

The company that produced that demo is also an excellent price and product reference. Price because they are fairly priced. Products because they don't ever stock junk.
http://tnvc.com/


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

There will be 3 types that after TEOTWAWKI.
1. Those that stay out of site at all times.
2. Those that run in a pack.
3. Those that will eventually become victims. 
A person alone or in a small group will eventually be targeted.
Even if they have nothing of value they will be targeted just to eliminate any competition for scarce resources if nothing else.
It is going to be brutal and ugly.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

lotsoflead said:


> If it's a real SHTF situation, market has collapsed, trucks aren't running, gas stations are closed and autos are shut down, just have a place where you can lay low and undetected for at least 3-4 weeks, food-water, keep your strength, have patience for a few weeks, after that, just the people who have prepared and kept out of sight will be around and they should be trust worthy, the dead beats,junkies and thieves, bottom feeders ect. should be 3/4 starved by the end of 3 weeks.. I live in the woods so for me it's no problem, but if I lived in a town or the city, that's what I would do.


I live in an urban area and the egress routes are clogged even on a normal day.

in a SHTF they will turn into completely impassable parking lots that will NEVER clear because after a few days of standing many vehicles will be abandoned (w/o keys in them) so they cannot be moved.

So when people turn major roads into traffic jams in SHTF, then parking lots, no matter how big your fuel tank your vehicle may be stuck in it *forever*

There are only 2 ways around this.

1) notice the SHTF before anyone else does, lowering the bar on when you egress means this means a few false alarms over the years were you needlessly bug out but thats ok IMO>

2) Hunker down in the urban area. 
Have enough food water for 2 months , this way most everyone else will be starved dead.
It takes a well fed person a full month to starve to death.

I experimented and dindnt eat at all for 11 days earlier this year.
I lost weight and felt a bit "spacy" but I definitely wasnt halfway down the road to having starved to death not even anywhere close. ...so its definelty not the often quoted "3 weeks".
Besides ....if someone gets just <some> food it will really stretch their ability to survive.

So be ready to lay low for 2 full months to ensure most everyone else is dead and the survivors are too weak to resist you.

(Of course this is not perfect either, for now what? even though you cn likely leave town unopposed but once you leave town you may meet ambushes by those making a;living of folks just like you who waited it out and now want to leave town..

And any survival groups you meet will have full houses and likely not want any more members.
Have a skill that will make people want you)


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

BlueZ said:


> I live in an urban area and the egress routes are clogged even on a normal day.
> 
> *It takes a well fed person a full month to starve to death.*
> 
> ...


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## dustinglodney (Apr 3, 2013)

I just went to recon1 and looked at maxpedition gear and I think I found all the bag I want but after reading all the posts about getting something that doesn't stand out is the way to go. The black or olive GHB is what I was looking at and I was leaning towards the black I guess I'll be liking like I've got the Goods in my bag. I really don't know what to do. I know any bag is better then no bag. This is a really scary time and the more I read the more confused I get. Also the fact that I live in Los Angeles and everyday is a scary day doesn't help.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

My opinion would be get the bag that will comfortably carry what you need to carry, when the time comes you may want to make it less pretty 

Nobody knows how things will go down, whether they think they do or not. Just like the waiting things out in a city vs immediate bugout, this might turn out to be the best strategy by far, on the other hand buildings might start burning, some organized group or gang might start sweeping neighborhoods with a fine tooth comb for stragglers and resources, no one can actually say what will happen with certainty. Not having a good pack is just eliminating an option imo.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Tweto said:


> To the prepper's that are concerned about traveling at night. Spend the money a get some night vision goggles. You can have the upper hand.


The flip side of that is if you are seen with those you've just made yourself a high value target, simple flashlight with a red lens is likely to be more useful in a high density population. The reality is that it is the abundance of artificial light that makes cities so dark. The very best night vision gear is the moon and stars far away from artificial lights. Out here the moon is so bright it casts shadows. Of course the likely hood of being a target diminishes in direct proportion to how bright the moon is.



cqp33 said:


> In the military we call these 'soft targets' and 'hard targets'! You want to make yourself a 'hard target', meaning unpredictable, changing routes or routines often, etc...


Good point though in my opinion the hardest target is the one that is unseen or not perceived as a target in the first place.The only battles we ever really win are those we avoid being a part of.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

LongRider said:


> The flip side of that is if you are seen with those you've just made yourself a high value target, simple flashlight with a red lens is likely to be more useful in a high density population. The reality is that it is the abundance of artificial light that makes cities so dark. The very best night vision gear is the moon and stars far away from artificial lights. Out here the moon is so bright it casts shadows. Of course the likely hood of being a target diminishes in direct proportion to how bright the moon is.
> 
> Good point though in my opinion the hardest target is the one that is unseen or not perceived as a target in the first place.The only battles we ever really win are those we avoid being a part of.


Gen 3 night vision can be purchased as normal looking binoculars. Not the ones that snap onto a head band and are used continually (the military version). I found some at a marine show in Miami that were designed to look like a standard $100 pair of binoculars.

You could have these hanging around your neck in a crowd and no one would know. The most common use for these is on small 30-60 foot boats that are some times called trawlers (live on boats).

On another point, in the country when there is a bright moon and it's clear, as soon as my eyes get accustom to the dark (usually about 10 mins) I can see fine. But, on a moonless night when it's cloudy you can't see your hand in front of your face. City people have ambient light from hundreds of sources and for some reason think they can see at night. In the country there is no ambient light. If all power was out, the cities would be darker then any city person could imagine.

Using a flash light with red lenses actually a tracks attention. I use them all the time to protect MY night vision, not to be used to detect animals and other humans without them knowing. Have a friend stand 100 yards away and have them shine a red lensed flashlight at you in the middle of the night and it will look like a search beacon. It will get you're attention right away. NOT GOOD!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I'd like to know where to find those binoculars.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> I'd like to know where to find those binoculars.


Optics Planet has Bushnell night vision binoculars. I'm not having any luck at down loading the page. The pair that I saw at the marine show were yellow (marine version only). They were an import from Israel because they told me that I could only buy up to 3 pairs because of import regulations.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Tweto said:


> Optics Planet has Bushnell night vision binoculars. I'm not having any luck at down loading the page. The pair that I saw at the marine show were yellow (marine version only). They were an import from Israel because they told me that I could only buy up to 3 pairs because of import regulations.


Thanks. I'll check out their site.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Tweto said:


> Optics Planet has Bushnell night vision binoculars. I'm not having any luck at down loading the page. The pair that I saw at the marine show were yellow (marine version only). They were an import from Israel because they told me that I could only buy up to 3 pairs because of import regulations.


http://www.opticsplanet.com/bushnell-25x42-nvb.html

Unfortunately it uses a IR illuminator...

...how to see IR:


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

dustinglodney said:


> I just went to recon1 and looked at maxpedition gear and I think I found all the bag I want but after reading all the posts about getting something that doesn't stand out is the way to go. The black or olive GHB is what I was looking at...


A lot of sport packs are made in natural cllors such as gray and green. If you later need to "hide" it better, Krylon works well in a lot of those fabrics.


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