# My first attempt at knife making.



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I made this a couple of years ago. Just a piece of junk mild steel, no idea what the make-up is. I used my wood working belt sander clamped upright in a bench vice for most of the stock removal. A piece of Locust that a friend gave me a loooong time ago for the handles.

I would like to start making as a hobby that will pay for itself. We'll see how time allows this winter and next spring.

Here it is, pretty much start to finish. Hope ya like.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Continued...


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Couple more...


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I know the bevel is nowhere near high enough on the blade, it is way too thick at the edge to take a good edge. I was a bit limited by my equipment and by my anxiousness to get it done!! 

When I do buy steel, it'll be 1095, the blades will be flat ground (for ease of sharpening in the field), and I will be sending them out to be heat treated, prolly to the guy who does a lot of HTing for Buck Knives. Micarta handles. I am looking fwd to getting some blades done. Oh, I now have a better grinder so I will be able to do a better bevel on the blade.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

That CAN'T be your first blade! one minor critique, the angle is fine on the edge, I like the Finish style grind myself,but I'd smooth it more.otherwise damn fine first shot! damn fine! and I've been making 30+ years, you have skills man, hats off!


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Magus said:


> That CAN'T be your first blade! one minor critique, the angle is fine on the edge, I like the Finish style grind myself,but I'd smooth it more.otherwise damn fine first shot! damn fine! and I've been making 30+ years, you have skills man, hats off!


Thank you very much!! Yes it is my first, hopefully not my last!!


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

This is my normal style of blade, crappy pic but you get the idea.made it from an old file.the new files are useless as knife material, they are only case hardened.
I don't make anything near as nice as yours but mine are designed to be used up and tossed. 

If you decide to do this here's a fast rules of thumb to keep you in business:

Steel cost +15% UNLESS like me, you specialize in recycled.then it's 10% if you scavenged it, it's 5%

Your time at the grinder is worth 10$ an hour and 10$ is a minimum.

The customer is always right UNLESS he's a picky moron.some things go only so far and you have paying customers who like your stuff as is.

Always figure shipping in,I seldom do and I've ended up breaking even.

P.S
I'd call that blade you made a Seax Skinner. from the Viking fighting knives.


----------



## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

That looks pretty good. Nice work. Love the handle.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Thanks Magus and CapnJack. Thanks for the advice, my plan is to make maybe 2 or 3 different models. The large one like the one above would go for about 100 bucks. The smaller ones will be priced lesser accordinly. This would cover cost of materials and give me enough profit to keep it going. Hopefully I can make something of the whole thing! 

Thanks guys for your kind words and support! 

Oh, the handles on this one are from a piece of Locust that sat around for many years, I was very happy with the grain pattern in it. I hand sanded those scales to 400 grit wet/dry using a mix of mineral oil and beeswax. Stuff came in a bottle, can't remember the name of it. It may be in one of the pics.

Thanks again!!


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I use corn oil and alcohol, I'll have to try that, all my stuff is old school 19th century LOL
those grips are awesome!


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Really cool! I am working on a knife as well following much the same procedure. Nice work! I am curious, how did you heat treat this knife? I am still grinding mine. I have done most of it with a file but will be ready to heat treat soon.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Well, as this was basically an experiment, I didn't really heat treat it. I kinda tried but I wasn't too concerned with if worked or not. I will tell you how I went about it though. I wish I could find the pics of the set-up I made to do it. It would help to see, it worked well enough but I was only doing the one blade. More practice and I am sure I could do better. I will be in the future sending blades out for HTing, the pros have better equipment and more control of the finished product. 

I first procured a metal oil drain pan, any metal pan at least 4" deep would work. I then drilled a hole in the side, even with the bottom of the pan. I picked up some 1/4" iron pipe and fittings. 1 "T" and 2 90s (elbows), and 2 caps. I made a "U" shaped set-up and drilled small holes in the straight parts. Off the bottom of the "U" is the "T", a 12" piece of pipe comes off of that. At the end of that I put an air fitting I could connect to my air compressor. I inserted the pipe set-up through the hole in the pan with the "U" inside the pan, laying on the bottom. Then I piled BBQ briquettes on top. Fired it up and let them turn almost all white. I then put the blade into the coals and turned on the air. that was my furnace. Once it was what I thought was the right color, I pulled it out and quenched it in used motor oil. THAT put a nice thick black scale on the blade that took me a couple hours to sand off. Once done sanding that off I put it in the oven, I can't remember the temp, to temper it. 

The blade was almost white hot in some places and just red in others. Not the way it should have been. Thats why I said with more practice I could do it better. BUT, if I am going to offer my blades for sale then I want to know they are treated to the hardness I want and done right.

I'll see if I can find the "forge" out back and snap a couple pics for ya. It worked fine, I just only used it the one time.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Awesome! Your forge setup is similar to what I had thought about doing. Some folks have used a blowdryer but I think an air compressor would work great. I will probably try to do a similar setup but I need to find a good pan of sorts to use. As for the temper process I understand you put it in the oven at about 350 (somewhere around there, cant remember off the top of my head) until the metal starts to turn a "straw" color then let it air cool. 

I am in the same boat as you... learning as I go and watching tons of YouTube videos. This could be an addictive hobby for me -- its been fun so far.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Wow, found the "forge", a little rusty. Here are the pics. When I hooked up the air I dialed down the pressure to around 20 psi I think. Experiment, see what works. The oil drain pan worked great. I think I put like 20 bucks or so into it. I'll search for the pics from when I actually used it, if I find them I'll post them.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Holy crap! I found them!! here it is.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

The rest....


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Found another pic of the finished blade. I thought I would try my hand a some file work while I was at it. A little rough but acceptable for a first.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Magus, if you are going to try to quench in used motor oil, make sure you clean off that black scale that forms BEFORE you try to temper it!!!!! If you don't (and you use your household oven) you will stink the house to high heaven!!! Just thought I would mention that.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

pandamonium said:


> Magus, if you are going to try to quench in used motor oil, make sure you clean off that black scale that forms BEFORE you try to temper it!!!!! If you don't (and you use your household oven) you will stink the house to high heaven!!! Just thought I would mention that.


Thanks. I believe you were referring this to me. Magus is a versed knifemaker... he wouldnt make a mistake like that. I was hoping to find a better oil to quench my knife in but I dont know what yet. I dont want to spend a lot but we will see.

Oh, another question, have you had any problems with rusting yet or did you just oil up the knife and that will keep it from rusting. The metal I am using is already rusting after a couple days of not working it. Just curious.

I will have to post some pics when I have them. I've not taken any as of yet in this process... I am afraid it will prove me to be an idiot.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

TheAnt, I haven't had too much rust, just a couple tiny spots. I oiled it once. Then again it just sits on my dresser.

Future knives will have a coating like dura-coat or something similar.

I do not want to use stainless because of the low carbon content, make it very difficult or impossible to make sparks for fire-making. 

Go ahead and post some pics!! If you are happy with the progress it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks!! Lets see what ya got! :2thumb:


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> Magus, if you are going to try to quench in used motor oil, make sure you clean off that black scale that forms BEFORE you try to temper it!!!!! If you don't (and you use your household oven) you will stink the house to high heaven!!! Just thought I would mention that.


Found that out the hard way too.I have a cheap toaster style oven in the shop for that now.lol


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Panda - very nice work on the knife - especially for a first try. Did you have any professional instruction or just do seat-o-the-pants work?

When I heat-treated my knife I used liquid salt - purchase a large bag of "kosher" salt or sea-salt, place into a large heavy bucket. Heat the bucket till the salt-crystals turn to liquid - place knife in liquid salt and go away for about 24hrs.

If you look on GoogleImages for a *sgian dubh* - you will see the primary style of knife that I make. I can take a picture for you, but, so far all the digital pictures I have taken really suck.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Anybody ever use two red bricks to draw one back?never could master that.
done right its supposed to make the edge hard and the rest of the blade springy.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> Panda - very nice work on the knife - especially for a first try. Did you have any professional instruction or just do seat-o-the-pants work?
> 
> When I heat-treated my knife I used liquid salt - purchase a large bag of "kosher" salt or sea-salt, place into a large heavy bucket. Heat the bucket till the salt-crystals turn to liquid - place knife in liquid salt and go away for about 24hrs.
> 
> If you look on GoogleImages for a *sgian dubh* - you will see the primary style of knife that I make. I can take a picture for you, but, so far all the digital pictures I have taken really suck.


 No instruction, just did some reading and went at it. For a time I was making handmade furniture, very meticulous stuff that. The attention to detail that I put into woodworking gets instilled to every thing I try to do. Plus I am quite anal about these things. I probably over analyze things. I will lay awake and visualize the processes that I will be doing, trying to discover problems in my mind before I encounter them during the process. Perhaps (I am hoping) this winter/spring I will have my ducks in a row enough to start producing. When I do I will be sure to post up some pics!

Thanks for the encouraging words!! :beercheer:


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Magus said:


> Anybody ever use two red bricks to draw one back?never could master that.
> done right its supposed to make the edge hard and the rest of the blade springy.


I forget what that is called. If I remember right the same thing can be done with clay on the edge of the blade during tempering. Clay would probably be easier to do than bricks. I think the Japanese sword makers used to do the clay thing.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I use two strips of angle iron.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Well, here is what I have so far. I think I am ready to heat treat. I am going to make an "air diffuser" similarly to what you did but I am going to do it in an old cast iron wood stove in my back yard. I can't find 1/4 inch iron pipe anywhere so will probably settle for 1/2 inch. I'll try to take some photos of that too when it's ready. I am stoked to have you posting photos a few steps ahead of me actually doing it. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Can't wait to see how it turns out!what kind of steel?looks like medium carbon.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Its just a piece of 3/16 steel from home depot. If all goes well and I have fun ( so far so good) then I will invest in a couple feet of knife making steel and start a couple more knives. If those turn out well I may see if there is a market for them else I will make them for friends and family.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I like that! Cool shape. From what I understand heat treating mild steel is pretty much a waste of time. I was told by some dudes on a knife makers forum that mild steel will only get so hard. It is good to go through the process though so you have the experience. But I wouldn't (and didn't) expect to have a blade that was truely usably hardened. 

Very good work there, keep the pics coming!!


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

pandamonium said:


> I like that! Cool shape. From what I understand heat treating mild steel is pretty much a waste of time. I was told by some dudes on a knife makers forum that mild steel will only get so hard. It is good to go through the process though so you have the experience. But I wouldn't (and didn't) expect to have a blade that was truely usably hardened.
> 
> Very good work there, keep the pics coming!!


Thanks. I dont expect much from this knife to begin with. As you said, its a learning experiment right now. I have had fun with it and going through the process has helped me identify tools that I need to buy and methods I need to work on. When I am done I hope to have something that LOOKS like a knife and then I may buy some decent steel and make something useful. This is just a trial balloon.

Next step: Figure out what oil (or?) I want to use for quenching.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Pandamonium, if you consider my posts to be highjacking just let me know and I will start a new thread. I was curious what you and Magus thought about this quenching oil: http://www.mcmaster.com/#0694600-quenchall-oil-101408/=ixljd6

I doubt there is anything wrong with it. Its expensive.. I mean like 75$ for 5 gallons. If I had a source of a decent used oil I would use it instead but I dont know a lot of folks around here and the ones I do know wouldnt have used oil sitting around. I would just have to get a good metal container to use to quench the knife unless it came in a good metal container which wouldnt surprise me.

Anyway, just wonder what you guys thought.


----------



## aardvark (Aug 17, 2012)

*Cool*

Cool some blade smithing buddies. I've been doing it for about 10 years. Have some nice damascus and cable blades under my belt. Managed to sell one antlered hunting knife. Sadly the rest have been gifts. LOL Made the family members happy though.

The one thing about getting started in blade smithing is that your gift list quickly gets longer than your sell list.

And there are a lot of people out there doing it for money so it makes it hard to break into the market.

Thankfully you can find a blade smith just about anywhere and they are usually very friendly and more than happy to give you tips and help you out.

What I really want to get into is smoke poles! Tried it once. Made a terrible grenade.

AARDVARK


----------



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Wow fellas, I am impressed. I couldn't make a nice knife from a kit. I know because I have a kit and was never able to actually produce a knife from it.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

TheAnt said:


> Pandamonium, if you consider my posts to be highjacking just let me know and I will start a new thread. I was curious what you and Magus thought about this quenching oil: http://www.mcmaster.com/#0694600-quenchall-oil-101408/=ixljd6
> 
> I doubt there is anything wrong with it. Its expensive.. I mean like 75$ for 5 gallons. If I had a source of a decent used oil I would use it instead but I dont know a lot of folks around here and the ones I do know wouldnt have used oil sitting around. I would just have to get a good metal container to use to quench the knife unless it came in a good metal container which wouldnt surprise me.
> 
> Anyway, just wonder what you guys thought.


You hijacker!!!! 
No worries man, we're all here to share, learn and have some fun!

I doubt you have to use used motor oil, any oil would work. If you wanted you could go to wally world and get 2 gallons of the cheapest oil they have. Prolly be half of what you were looking at.
Nae-kid post about using salt, I know nothing about it though. 
I more than likely wont be HTing the blades I will be making, I will let someone who knows what they're doing handle that part. I had researched who to have do the treating for me a while back. I cannot remember his name but he heat treats for Buck Knives. I think it was $85 for up to a dozen blades. Not a bad per-blade cost!


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

pandamonium said:


> You hijacker!!!!
> No worries man, we're all here to share, learn and have some fun!
> 
> I doubt you have to use used motor oil, any oil would work. If you wanted you could go to wally world and get 2 gallons of the cheapest oil they have. Prolly be half of what you were looking at.
> ...


Thanks. Yeah. Naekid and Magus are long time metal masters. I dont think salt would be for me, though. Thought about getting some air quenchable steel but I will probably just get some 0-1 or something. I would prefer not to send anything off, just me.


----------



## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

OK, so I ditched the cheap metal and got some real stuff. Just finished the knife last night and created a new thread detailing my experience. Check it out:
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f81/adventures-knife-making-14027/


----------



## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

Veggie oil works great for quench. That is what I use.


----------

