# The Prepper's Metal Shop



## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I hope everyone adds their ideas about prepping for a post-apocalyptic shop. Here's some of what I have come up with to deal with a grid-down situation.

There are a limited number of ways to get mechanical power without electricity, but there ARE several. For use in a grid-down situation, the choices get narrower. Gasoline and diesel fuel are pumped with electric motors, and refineries use a lot of electricity, so you would need yourown fuel supply to run an IC engine. Then, you get to deal with the long term problems of service parts.

Any mechanical engine depends on a long supply and service chain, starting with iron mines and progressing through the manufacturing and delivery pipelines. So, it all depends on HOW LONG a power outage you are preparing for.

For up to several weeks, you could reasonably store enough fuel to use a generator for limited periods. That is a LOT easier than retrofitting to use a lineshaft, and most likely, is more efficient because mechanical drivetrains gobble a lot of power, with V belts and roller chains being the most efficient.

For a year or two of no electricity, a diesel engine and mechanical drives starts to make some sense to me. Diesel fuel stores pretty well, and is calorie-dense, meaning you get more fuel value for the space it takes, compared to gasoline and LP gas. Diesels can be started without a battery, as can some gasoline engines with magnetos. A hidden underground diesel tank is hard to steal.

Stationary engines are typically installed outdoors or in an open shed, to keep the noise and exhaust out of the work building. Lineshafts used to be run through walls because the hole is smaller than if you try to run a belt through a wall. Lineshaft clutches are still available, per my Amish friends. They have a lot of shops run entirely on diesel engines and lineshafts--furniture and cabinet shops, machine shops, buggy mfg., pallet mills, and more that I have seen and repaired as needed.

Mechanical drives need a fair amount of maintenance, but not terrible. Parts wear out and need to have stocked spares, especially belts, clutches, and bearings.

Welding is a special case. Generator type arc welders run on gasoline (mostly unless it is huge), or diesel engines. I have a Miller 200 amp stick machine with a 16 HP Onan gas engine that will run all day on 5 gallons of gas, and that is a LOT of welding. My 100 amp Lincoln MIG machine wants a 20 amp, 120 volt outlet. Most small gasoline generators will do that easily, and have power left for other things.

Acetylene is almost never mentioned as a welding process now, but it works admirably, although slower than stick welding. Acetylene and oxygen tanks are expensive to buy, and don't last very long, compared to storing gasoline for a generator. I plan to save the torch for cutting, and use the coal forge for heating.

Forge welding can be done, but not easily with today's materials, compared to the original wrought iron. Most any apprentice could forge weld wrought iron, but it takes a skilled person to weld hot rolled steel. I use the forge for heating and forging, and do the welding with the other processes.

Take a look at the wide variety of hand and crank powered tools out there. Lever shears are faster than a bandsaw, but limited to the size of work. Lever punches are available, but costly. I have a couple crank powered drill presses, restored antiques that work very nicely. They were originally post mounted in a blacksmith shop, but I made plate bases and 2" pipe columns to mount them so they can be moved like any drill press. (Every Amishman that comes in my shop wants to buy them.) Here's an original one: http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=492

I have 2 old 22" diameter natural grindstones that I need to mount on bearings and be powered with foot pedals. By using ball bearing pillow blocks, they work quite easily, and they grind COOL with a water drip on the stone. Turn the stone AWAY from you, lest you get a lap full of water spray! Use an old bicycle fender to limit the water spray in the shop. Like this: http://www.americanartifacts.com/smma/advert/ay332.htm

There are still a few small crank grinders that use a 4" to 6" diameter modern grinding wheel, but they are getting scarce and usually need to be bored and bushed to get the shafts to run right. This kind has a clamp that allows mounting on the edge of a workbench, for sharpening drill bits, chisels, plane irons and the like. Here's one: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/article/using-a-hand-cranked-grinder

The idea is to solve this problem one item at a time, because there are answers out there.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

lathes were once treadle powered and smaller ones could still be. I've thought about how to treadle power several of my machines.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

The guys that live near running water are going to have it a lot easier with regard to powering equipment. Older machines and machine tools that were originally powered by lineshafts will be lots easier to deal with than some of the modern ones I've run. Biggest problem I see: how many people know how to properly splice a leather belt? 

There were some small treadle powered lathes...might be worth finding one. I'd guess running a treadle powered Singer sewing machine would be a cakewalk compared to a metal cutting lathe.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

A couple of other things that I think that are nessicary are a lathe and somekind of a self hoisting cart to move heavyer things around without using a powered machine. 
Lacking internal combustion power for the line shaft, a person could power it with horses, either through a horse gin or a treadmill, but a horse gin would be easier to build.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

70% of all the welding I do is with TIG. TIG can weld aluminum, stainless steel, steel, and even weld Stainless to steel if needed. When it comes to repair work, no other process is as good.

In an emergency, my welder of choice is TIG and then when I run out of Argon I will go to Oxy-Acetylene and SMAW-DC 

My shop has a remote generator hook-up at the door so I can run the whole shop off of my generator during power outages.


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## Moby76065 (Jul 31, 2012)

I see fabrication skills as a real asset in a long term emergency situation.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Since I am not as young as I used to be, lifting is a problem and it hurts more than it should. So, I built a small version of this: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/m...mpaignId=T9F&gclid=CPfno5yOsLICFYVFMgodDgkAzg

to lift heavy work into the lathe and mill. Used a boat winch for lifting, over a pulley at the top.

Outside the shop is a jib crane, 6" pipe column set in 5 yards of concrete, then guyed to the slab on the back side. I hinged a 10 foot X 6" I-beam to it that carries a trolley and a 1-ton chain hoist. The I-beam has a truss rod from the outer end to the top of the column, and has easily lifted a ton. Needed that to deal with repairing farm equipment.

Inside the shop is an engine hoist similiar to this one: http://www.toolking.com/performance...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CK-WjsSQsLICFahAMgodZz4AAQ

I built mine of 3" schedule 80 pipe with an 8 ton hydraulic jack from Horrible Freight. I trussed the lift arm with 1/2" rebar and used 6" cast iron caster wheels. It has moved my ancient 16" lathe with relative ease.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I built a 1 ton engine lift that I can quickly break down into 6 pieces. Even though I built it for lifting engines in and out of cars and trucks (I'll be pulling an engine, transmission, transfer-case, out today) I have found it invaluable for lifting stuff all over the property.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Oxyacetylene torches can be run on MAP, natural, propane, and methane gas with the proper regulators.

So can many 2 and 4 cylinder motors.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Magus said:


> Oxyacetylene torches can be run on MAP, natural, propane, and methane gas with the proper regulators.
> 
> So can many 2 and 4 cylinder motors.


Technically its not Oxy-Acetylene if you use a gas other then Acetylene. Also, any gas other then Acetylene burns much cooler and is only good for cutting not welding. The exception is brazing, soldering, silver soldering, etc..


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Whatever,its what the spell check spit out.LOL


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## Jerry D Young (Jan 28, 2009)

Some tools I'd want in the PAW: (doesn't include mechanics, household, carpentry or other types of tools. Strictly metal shop stuff. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Metal working tools & equipment
files
hacksaw
sheet metal brake
snips
nibbler
hole punches
riveter & rivets
welding vice grips
wire brushes

Bench and shop tools
Bench vise
Pipe vise 
Small hydraulic press
Large hydraulic press


Power tools
1 set of general battery hand tools (circle saw, jig saw, sawzall, small drill, large drill, screwdriver, grinder etc.)
Stand Grinder/buffer
Smithy Supershop 220 woodworking multi tool w/set of accessories & tools
Smithy GN-1340-IMX metal working multi tool w/set of accessories & tools

Windmill/waterwheel jackshaft-power tool, device & appliance shed
Firewood/Lumber working tools
buzz saw
band saw
bark scraper
Metal working tools

band saw
lathes
drill press
hacksaw
grinder
trip hammer

Coppersmith & tinsmith tools & equipment

Attached open-air blacksmith area w/
Winter enclosure walls
Personal equipment
heavy gloves
face protector
leather apron
leather leggings/chaps
leather boot spats/gaiters
Horseshoeing tools
hoof pick
hoof rasps
horseshoe nail hammer
nail nippers
horseshoe nail trim file

Metal forging tools
forge
anvil
hammers
tongs
cutting chisels
bellows
quench tank
tempering tank/bed
annealing bed/oven
fluxes
surface hardening material
brazing rod
welding rod

Metal casting tools
melting furnace
melting pot
dipping ladle
casting sand bins
casting sand recovery screens
fluxes
mold boxes
item molds
fill tube & air release tube molds
mold cooling & disassembly area
sprue nippers, cutters, & files
finishing files
finishing sanding/rubbing stones

Ore smelting tools & equipment
ore & scrap storage bins
treatment mineral & alloy component storage bins
coke/coal fuel storage bins
smelting furnace
smelting pot
molten metal dipper
smelting furnace & pot handling tools
pig molds
mold cooling area
pig storage area

Acetylene production shed w/
Acetylene generator
2 temporary storage tanks
Portable tank/bottle filling pump
Attached calcium carbonate storage bunker

Oxygen/hydrogen production shed w/
Electrolysis water breakdown system w/
multiple electrical source inputs
water storage tank w/multiple source inputs
electrolysis tank w/gas collection tanks w/transfer pumps
2 temporary oxygen storage tanks
4 temporary hydrogen storage tanks
2 portable tank/bottle filling pumps


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Jerry D Young said:


> Smithy GN-1340-IMX metal working multi tool w/set of accessories & tools


Might want to rethink that. I've never run one, but from talking to people that have, the multipurpose machines are lacking in a number of areas. Rigidity is one that always comes up, but a bigger problem is that allowable part size is very limited. In my opinion, your money will be far better spent on a decent knee mill and a lathe with something around a 12" swing and a 48" bed.


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## MouldyJoe (Jul 5, 2011)

What types of things are you planning on building/repairing? When the power goes off and the gasoline is all gone and we are down to solar/wind/hydro power. it seems like the need for heavy metal work will also be reduced as well. I have a forge, anvil, hand crank grinder and plan on mostly working hand gardening tools, horse pulled items like plows, wagons and buggies. Mostly I just want the capability of making a hinge, door latch or some nails when all the other options are completely gone. Although a foot operated lathe definately has some appeal.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Well, then there is the problem of cutting, threshing and grinding grain. Grain mills were one of the first things to be water powered in history, because it is a real drudgery to do it by man power. Water pumping, moving freight, soil tillage, and cloth making are a few of the basic industries that we seldom think about, but are what will be in demand if the US doesn't have the systems that we do today.

The equipment for such things will need to be built and maintained. Much can be done with wood by knowledgeable people, but some metalwork is involved. If we fall that far, and I think it is very possible, at least in certain areas of the country, then blacksmiths and machinists will be needed desperately.


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## Well_Driller (Jun 3, 2012)

None of my machines are lineshaft driven, but If I had to I could run them off my steam engine. I have a tendency to keep alot of metal left over from jobs that I probably shouldn't, but I think there's enough iron out there you can find something if you had too. Although the steam engine is not the most handy thing for power, requires an operator to tend the engine, it can be a viable power source when nothing else is available. I hate to imagine having to really have to use it.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Tweto said:


> Technically its not Oxy-Acetylene if you use a gas other then Acetylene. Also, any gas other then Acetylene burns much cooler and is only good for cutting not welding. The exception is brazing, soldering, silver soldering, etc..


 My metal, wood and electronic shop are all battery powered. Oh, and the house, grain mill, water pump too!
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f35/how-many-have-off-grid-electric-systems-9863/


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

THAT is some serious investment in alternative energy!


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

machinist said:


> THAT is some serious investment in alternative energy!


 Not to brag, I'm that prepared, well about 95%, I guess you can't be prepared for everything. Even the shelter is ready.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I have enough 1" round stock, 1" pillow blocks, u-joints and pulleys with belts I am certain I could make a functional line shaft... I could run it off of the PTO of several of my tractors (my old grey-market Yanmar YM2000 has 3 PTO shaft speeds) without too much problem.

NO MATTER WHAT... I will have a way to turn either a 60Hz AC generator or make enough 12 volt power to run the stuff from an inverter. I have absolutely no worries of making SOME electricity, whether it is solar and inverter, or a generator from a tractor, whatever.

I do loathe the idea of being so destitute of liquid fuels that I would have to run engines on woodgas. Man, that would be a pain in the rear.

I would not bother with a steam engine unless I am using a huge satellite dish covered with mirrors.... even if it is just used to preheat the cold water before entering the boiler. Making steam from just burning wood only is way too labor intensive unless you have a lot of cheap slave labor getting the wood prepared for you.

The amount of labor goes down TREMENDOUSLY with even a few power tools.... a 4-1/2" disc grinder (with a LOT of extra wheels and a decent chop saw really make short work of cutting ops.

A Sawzall with a lot of blades should be used sparingly. Lots of hacksaw blades on hand (done) is good to have, but I hope we don't come to that.

I have several 12 volt cordless drills converted to run directly off of a 12 volt car battery. These are huge labor savers!!

*Collect as many drill bits as you can*. You can only sharpen them so many times.



machinist said:


> Well, then there is the problem of cutting, threshing and grinding grain. Grain mills were one of the first things to be water powered in history,


For threshing, convert an old chipper shredder: 
http://members.efn.org/~itech/pdf files/Grain thresher plans.pdf

http://sustainableseedsystems.wsu.edu/nicheMarket/smallScaleThreshing.html

http://www.carolinafarmstewards.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/farm_scale_winnower.pdf

http://ltras.ucdavis.edu/files/Small electric winnower.pdf/view

http://www.fastonline.org/CD3WD_40/JF/JF_OTHER/SMALL/Rodale grain thresher - 1977.pdf

I wonder how grain milling stones made from concrete would hold up???



machinist said:


> If we fall that far, then blacksmiths and machinists will be needed desperately.


I hope we don't get that far. I have seen some third world countries do amazing things with what limited machine tools they have. Nobody has old 1800's looking blacksmith shops (exclusively - save for hobbyists) anymore anywhere in the world... if they have some metal, then they have some modern tools, period.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

LincTex,

I too hope we don't have a grid-down scenario, but if so, modern tools won't be worth a lot for very long. I am looking a several degrees of possibilities.

A) Economic crash/high inflation, with money and supplies harder to find, and more expensive power/fuels. This is can get tough, but most people can work with it. 

B) Hard crash or a war that begets shortages and rationing of the WWII sort. A black market arises along with a lot of work-arounds to keep stuff going.

C) Complete grid-down-and-it-ain't-coming-back horrible situation. As in devastating crash, major world war, EMP/CME event, etc.. This means big trouble, and a plummetting standard of iving very quickly. TEOTWAAKI. Few people would be able to keep being productive beyond bare subsistence, IMHO. 

A and B are bad enough, but for purposes of this thread I was thinking about C. That is a serious challenge. With enough resources and preparation, some modern things could be kept going for a while, but not for very many people. Long term, say 10 years down the road, if the grid is not back up by then, it may be a generation or two before it comes back, if ever. I believe that would put us back to sometime before circa 1850, maybe 1700 or worse. 

The electric grid in North America has too many nuke plants that depend heavily on the status quo. If we have something like a Fukushima event, then I would expect the nuke plants to fail, with predictable results. We would be lucky to have habitable land remaining that wasn't polluted with radiation, like Chernobyl. 

If you expect a C-type scenario, prepping for that would be the most challenging of all, I think. That puts us into blacksmiths and hand woodcrafters, pit saws, draft animals, and hand looms. I doubt it gets that bad, but it could in certain places.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> Complete grid-down-and-it-ain't-coming-back horrible situation, as in devastating crash, major world war, EMP/CME event, etc. This means big trouble, and a plummeting standard of living very quickly.... would be the most challenging of all, I think. That puts us into blacksmiths and hand woodcrafters, pit saws, draft animals, and hand looms. I doubt it gets that bad, but it could in certain places.


That would be very very difficult. I have food enough for two years, and solar/batteries and diesel to last about 3-5 years. I had better have a really GOOD "Plan B" in the works if something happens past two years, MAX.

There is no way I can financially (and storage space-wise) have enough "stuff" on hand to last past 3 years (easily). Gonna have to adapt and overcome as the situation arises.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

No, can't store enough to last forever. Have to start producing what you need, or be able to trade with somebody who produces. We plan to do some of both, and that's why we have the shop. 

Have an old Miller gas powered stick welder, so the deal will have to be, if you want welding, bring some gas. Hope I don't have to learn how to make welding rods....

At some point of decline, present day methods just won't be sustainable. We all hope it doesn't get that bad, but if it does, I want other means, thus the antique collection. I spent a lot of time learning how things were made by blacksmiths and other artisans. Even now, it works pretty well for many things.


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## weld62 (Dec 6, 2012)

Machinist making things the old way is not hard with black smithing it's all about how hot you get your work peice


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Tweto said:


> 70% of all the welding I do is with TIG. TIG can weld aluminum, stainless steel, steel, and even weld Stainless to steel if needed. When it comes to repair work, no other process is as good.
> 
> In an emergency, my welder of choice is TIG and then when I run out of Argon I will go to Oxy-Acetylene and SMAW-DC
> 
> My shop has a remote generator hook-up at the door so I can run the whole shop off of my generator during power outages.


Gas welding stainless is a b1tch! can be done, but geez!:brickwall:


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Heat build-up welding stainless is a problem. I've had good success welding stainless and thin carbon steels using a Cobra acetylene torch. It ain't cheap to buy, but it does work very well for delicate stuff. No, I don't have any affiliation with the company. See it here: http://www.cobratorches.com/

Those things REALLY work. The flame is very thin, so it doesn't have nearly the heat affected zone of a normal torch. I can weld like a Tig with it, and I have big problems Tig welding because of a poor coordination handicap. The Cobra/Henrob torch is far more forgiving, since you don't have to worry about the arc gap. You can pull the torch away from the work to prevent overheating (ike you would brazing), especially using a flux to prevent oxidation when you move the flame away. A flux isn't needed for carbon steels.

I have welded cast iron using castiron filler rod and a suitable flux (No. 1 cast iron red flux made by Antiborax). http://www.superiorflux.com/anti_borax_fluxes.html The cast iron flux gives a bright yellow sodium flare, so you need a blue lens in your goggles. The resulting weld is almost indistinguishable from the parent metal, and post-heat isn't necessary unless you have something extremely thin or complex. I just cool a cast iron part in kitty litter.

It has a much better mixer than conventional torches, so it can produce the very hot thin flame. That means concentrated heat, so you use a lot less gas. The concentrated flame puts more heat where you want it, so Tig-type welds go pretty fast. I love it!

Yes, the Cobra torch makes a larger heat affected zone than a proper Tig weld. But it is a great answer for me being unable to work with Tig. And it is SOOO much better than any other torch weld setup I have ever seen.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

weld62,

Yes, heat is THE critical thing. Controlling heat and WHERE the heat is, makes the difference between fair and excellent work. I don't claim to be an expert at doing that, but I've done some forging. Simple forge welding I have done, but not mastered. Again, my coordination problem is where it's at. 

Dad taught me some of the finer points of shooting pool, and I understand it perfectly. I just cannot DO it. I hate this problem, but I have learned to live with it. It affects a lot of how I have to approach things, and is probably why I much prefer machining (the machines have cranks that FORCE the tool to go where you want it) to doing any kind of hand work, such as wood carving that depends on my muscles alone.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Years ago, a friend gave me a large cast iron vise with a 4 inch crack in it. I fixed it with Oxy-Acetylene buy drilling 3/16 holes along both sides of the crack. Then I brazed the entire crack and the drilled holes as one large repair. The repair worker very well.


Machinist, blue lenses are required as you said or you can't see whats going on. I'm not sure if blue lenses are available anymore. I know I could not find them for a while.

As a side note, I weld every few days. I have to keep multiple welding (4) helmets, all with different magnifications for what ever distance I need to be from the actual weld. Getting old is a bitch!


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

They are around. Here's one source:
http://www.blastlineind.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=18S85560B

It ain't like the old American Optical Cobalt lenses intended for arc welding (shades 10 and 12). I think those are plastic and shade 6 IIRC, but they work for gas welding.

And yes, getting old sucks! I can't see worth beans without glasses. I did find that having the bifocal line set HIGH helps me with close work. The optical place thought I was nuts, but whatever. I can't hear without hearing aids and can't wear them in the shop because of the noise level. Teeth were gone long ago, so I do something like chewing with the plastic ones. Joints all hurt because of all the stupid stuff I did 30+ years ago. But, I guess it beats the alternative....

Still, it takes me an hour or so to put myself together in the mornings.


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## weld62 (Dec 6, 2012)

Magus said:


> Oxyacetylene torches can be run on MAP, natural, propane, and methane gas with the proper regulators.
> 
> So can many 2 and 4 cylinder motors.


The only diferance is the burning or welding tip that you use for the diferant gases


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

I guess a steam engine would be useful if the fuel ran out. Problem would be finding one and setting it up to power lathes, power hammers etc...


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Somewhere I read that there are new steam engines (small ones) available. I;ll try to find more info on that.

I wouldn't want an antique steam engine, or even be close to one! Too many ways they can self-destruct and cause injury and death. But a small NEW one could be very useful. 

My grandad had a furniture shop all his life, and began with a one-lung hit-'n-miss gasoline engine powering a lineshaft. That works. It does require more floor space in some cases, and the shop has to be designed for it from the ground up. More practical today would be to steam power a generator and run your shop from that, as-is. Then all the conventional modern day stuff works. It would not be as efficient as direct mechanical power, but probably not too bad.

You'd probably get real tired of firing that thing, though.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> You'd probably get real tired of firing that thing, though.


No fooling!

If I HAD TO do steam power today, all of my water preheat would be done with parabolic solar. I would also use old truck radiators to recover the steam/condensate, since it is distilled water - and reuse it. "Minerals build-up" kills any steam power system.

Honestly, the engine itself is not the biggest hurdle.... the BOILER is. 
1) No one makes them any more
2) Building one properly is hard to do and can be dangerous.
3) Old boilers are often in pretty bad shape.
4) Old ones that ARE in decent shape are often VERY inefficient. The amount of fuel "in" compared to the amount of work/HP you get "out" will seem like a losing battle.
5) Getting one the right size is REALLY hard. Any of the ones I have seen for sale were just huge. Great for running a big threshing machine or an entire sawmill operation, but not a small flour mill or 8x36 lathe.

A person would be a million miles ahead of the game with 1000 gallons of stored diesel, 10 gallons of Rotella oil and a $1200 used Kubota engine. I have a 6-1 Metro Listeroid and ZS1110 Chang Chai diesel for my main "labor savers". Any small item (power drill, food mixer, flour mill, etc.) will have to run on either solar power or by hand.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

LincTex,

Yes, I'm on the same page with you. The tasks that bother me are grinding grain, pumping water, heating the house (cuttng firewood), and plowing/cultivating the garden. Those take power in some form. Blacksmithing I can cover with stored coal or homemade charcoal, and the blower is crank powered, as is the drill press and the grinder. 

But I don't have any water power to run my burr mill, nor do I have room for a horse to plow the garden. I'm banking on gasoline powered engines for those things, and have some plans for a wood-gas system if absolutely necessary. 

Most things can be done by manpower, but it is a real drag.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> The tasks that bother me are grinding grain,
> pumping water,
> heating the house (cuttng firewood),
> and plowing/cultivating the garden.
> ...


There more than one way to skin that cat....

Milling can be done with wind power. Man it sure would be work building a wind powered mill, but day of old used community built/owned/operated mills. There are alos bicycle or pedal powered flour mill plans and designs available.

Pumping water.... wind again? Go find you an old windmill now  Also, you can use pedal power to run a piston pump if the wind doesn't blow.

Cutting firewood will be a job left to the youngins. Make friends and mentor some youngsters now. I will bet you can find quite a few who are wanting to learn!

Plowing the garden... get a little Japanese diesel tractor. They don't burn hardly any fuel at all. Keep spare filters on hand and other supplies. You can still find little Yanmars and Kubotas (as well as Iseki, Shibauru, Mitsubishi, etc.) for very reasonable prices. I have a little single cylinder Chinese diesel tractor that starts with a hand crank! No battery needed.

Many of the tasks you mentioned above I can do with a small diesel tractor. Yes, diesel will run out someday, but I don't even use 10 gallons a year right now! If I store several hundred gallons of diesel I will be pretty far ahead of the game.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

LincTex,

Since I know squat about diesels, and I found a deal on this, I opted for a gasoline tractor. 18 HP Onan, Cat. 0 3 pt., hydraulic DRIVE. Engine runs pump, which runs everything else--differential has hydr. motor, and hydr. spuds on the back to run a 42" tiller.










I have blacksmithed a potato plow for it, bought a disk hiller, cultivator, 10" moldboard plow (it will pull that at 3 MPH), a mounted disk harrow, and much more.

In the process of doing a full restoration, although at 32 years old, it is going strong! Could easily do a heart transplant of about any small engine. A friend of mine has a 3 cyl. diesel from a semi truck reefer (Mitsubishi, IIRC) on his Case. Ran all summer on one tank of fuel (4 gallons).

I have 2 of these machines, and a 3rd for parts, plus a couple spare engines. They plow snow 54" wide in high range at 7.8 MPH. Winter project is to restore both machines. Here's video of one with a tiller going: 




I like the windmill idea, but wind is limited here. There is a water powered grist mill (I made some parts for the restoration a couple years ago) not far from us. 



That was a $1.4 Million Restoration, IIRC, and there was some challenging blacksmith work involved. My daughter made the tin work around the grinding burrs and the grain feed mechanism. I did a lot of the smaller mechanical drive parts, a cam to run the "shaker" on the grain feeder, the big bearings on the mill wheel jackshaft, and some handrails.

Hopefully, I could get some grinding done there, if needed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> 18 HP Onan, Cat. 0 3 pt., hydraulic DRIVE. Engine runs pump, which runs everything else--differential has hydr. motor, and hydr. spuds on the back to run a 42" tiller.


I love those! VERY well built...I have worked on many, as well as the huge 20-24HP Onan powered Simplicity/Allis-Chalmers ones as well...



machinist said:


> Could easily do a heart transplant of about any small engine.... a 3 cyl. diesel ...Ran all summer on one tank of fuel (4 gallons).


Now THAT's what I am talking about!!



machinist said:


> There is a water powered grist mill not far from us. Hopefully, I could get some grinding done there, if needed.


Oh yes, A+ on that idea.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> There is a water powered grist mill (I made some parts for the restoration a couple years ago) not far from us.
> 
> 
> 
> .


I love that! 
Is that you in the bib overalls?


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

No, that guy is a local retired farmer. I'm skinny and have more gray hair! 

That wiggling thing just above the grindstone, under the hopper, is the cam I made, and Daughter did all those little tin funnels and chutes in that thing. We know a bunch of people there--the local Historical Society operates the mill. If needed, we have an "in" there.


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## BlacksmithKevin (Jan 15, 2013)

weld62 said:


> Machinist making things the old way is not hard with black smithing it's all about how hot you get your work peice


Little bit more to it. Controlling your heat is just part of it.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Bringing this back tot he top. 

Good info here... and in memory of Machinist


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

LincTex said:


> There more than one way to skin that cat....
> 
> Milling can be done with wind power. Man it sure would be work building a wind powered mill, but day of old used community built/owned/operated mills. There are alos bicycle or pedal powered flour mill plans and designs available.
> 
> ...


Water pumping with a windmill is possible, but then there is this:


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