# Danger of addicts.



## jeager106 (Mar 24, 2017)

I don't want to be morbid but there are many dangers in a post
SHTF situation and evil people come in all flavors.
Drug addicts don't care one bit about anyone else.
Meth users could be far more dangerous than any other kind of addict.

Meth destroys the brain and they become very much like killer
zombies.

Here are some chemicals used to make meth.

Nail polish remover
Lithium
Nitroglycerine
Drain cleaner
Brake fluid
and chemicals used to make fertilizer.

http://www.methproject.org/answers/whats-meth-made-of.html#Ingredients

Pictures of meth heads before and after.
nasty

Link:
http://www.methproject.org/answers/will-using-meth-change-how-i-look.html#Mug-Shot-Match-Up


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

jeager106 said:


> I don't want to be morbid but there are many dangers in a post
> SHTF situation and evil people come in all flavors.
> Drug addicts don't care one bit about anyone else.
> Meth users could be far more dangerous than any other kind of addict.
> ...


Places that used to be quiet and peaceful, such as the Heartland, are being ravaged by meth. Iowa, Nebraska, the Dakotas, Kansas, Oklahoma and many more states have so many grandparents raising grandchildren. There are a few grandparents on here raising grandchildren, and some are probably because of drugged out children.

I had a student who had been removed and given back to her parents several times. She was a second grader. The parents were so entrenched, as is the nature of meth, that they finally gave up trying to clean up and get their 4 children back. The children were then being raised by various relatives. A widowed grandmother had the two older children. A cousin had the two younger children and she and her husband were adopting the girls. One day, past mid-year, the girl came to school and wanted to tell her classmates that she did not live with her parents. Imagine her shame. She told me that when she was with her parents, the parents would share a house with others (probably addicts as well). Each family had a bedroom and they shared food and other necessities.

I think I read a number of years ago, that only 6% of meth addicts are ever clean from it. I have a classmate who is clean from it, because he gave his life to Jesus.

If you want to know about meth and cooking it, watch the series "Breaking Bad". It certainly does not help you to know how to cook it, but you can see that it is a process that takes certain materials, etc. I have a cousin who owns a hardware store. He told me he just has to look at a shopping cart to know if the contents are for cooking meth or not. He has seen it plenty of times.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

There are going to be millions of unmedicated people after it hits the fan. They will be dangerous and unpredictable. Add the millions of unprepared hungry and thirsty people and everyone will be a threat. Even other preppers that you know may be running out of food or they might want what you have. I won't trust anybody after the collapse except those who live with me or I'm prepared to take in.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm not sure where the thread is but I know weedy brought the topic up dealing with family members that are addicts and keeping our stashes of pain meds safe from them.

If you want to see how far an addict will go for a fix watch the first season of Fear the Walking Dead. The son pretends to be clean when he is in fact taking morphine from a dying cancer patient. All during the zombie apocalypse.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Lots of pain pill abuse now too and it is epidemic. Especially in rural areas. We watched Dr. Feelgood on Netflix about it.
My granddaughters mug shot didn't even look like her she has 2 boys one born addicted my daughter went through hell taking care of. Both are fine 7 and 4 yr olds now. She is in prison for life. Has Hep C with no care. What can you do, NOTHING!

The nation is drug ridden NWO plan to destroy us without firing shot. Big pharma and open borders. Illegals have not slowed down tunnels have increased over 500% since Trump got in.

Apathy and fake or misdirected patriotism has destroyed this nation we committed suicide like the other western nations.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

Caribou said:


> We also have millions on prescription mood altering meds. The crazies will literally come out when those bottles run dry.


Yes they will, but i think that they wont last to long.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Drug addicts and alcoholics only have loyalty to their habit. Family, friends or anybody else are just a source to feed the habit. 

During a real SHFT, these people need to be put down fast, as they will only get more desperate and dangerous as time passes. 

Non-christian attitude but very realistic. I have personal experience with just how low these people can sink. My step brother (alcoholic) robbed his own father as his father lay dying on the floor. 

If a drug addict or alcoholic knows you prep, then the world will know. They will trade this info, to feed the habit. Family has no value or respect from the addict.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> Drug addicts and alcoholics only have loyalty to their habit. Family, friends or anybody else are just a source to feed the habit.
> During a real SHFT, these people need to be put down fast, as they will only get more desperate and dangerous as time passes. Non-christian attitude but very realistic. I have personal experience with just how low these people can sink. My step brother (alcoholic) robbed his own father as his father lay dying on the floor. If a drug addict or alcoholic knows you prep, then the world will know. They will trade this info, to feed the habit. Family has no value or respect from the addict.


Don't have any personal experience with meth or cocaine addicts, but I've heard this from several LE relatives/friends....apparently they will trade off ANYTHING to get their next "fix." Mom's diamond ring, friends possessions, information about OTHER druggies, yada, yada. I would NOT want one of them to know ANYTHING about "shtf plans/locations!" Have had experience with a couple alcoholics, won't say they are THAT bad, but I wouldn't exactly trust them with the family silver once they got on a bender!


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## jeager106 (Mar 24, 2017)

Family of cancer patients in our local hospital came to me when I was
a detective complaining that the patients were in horrible pain and suspected
they weren't getting the morphine they should have been getting.
All the patients were suffering during the 8 hour day shift.
Well THAT narrowed things down.
We waited outside the hospital for the day shift nurse in charge of giving the
morphine to the patients.
I searched her and found TEN preloaded morphine viles in her pocket.
Get this!
The hospital refused to follow through with prosecution.
Two reasons.
Bad publicity for the hospital.
Nurses and doctors hooked on drugs go to a special rehab in Florida.
No record available.
Patients will never know the doc or med tech was in rehab.


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## jeager106 (Mar 24, 2017)

People in recovery who attend regular meetings become really fine people.
Why?
They work daily, every day, on self improvement.
They PRAY together at meetings.
Only GOD can keep an addict sober/drug free.
Alcoholism killed both my parents and most of my uncles.
Almost killed me!
Once I quit drinking and tried to get into a hospital.
No beds available.
So I quit cold turkey.
24 hours later a place called offering a bed in a MENTAL ward.
Well why not?
They took blood and my blood alcohol level was STILL .40.
That is a coma.
Anything more is death.
Doc said my b.a.c must have been over .50 and I should have died!
Good genes?????
Dunno.
I don't drink at all.
I can't.
Besides now I'm diabetic. Liquor will surly kill me.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

jeager106 said:


> Family of cancer patients in our local hospital came to me when I was
> a detective complaining that the patients were in horrible pain and suspected
> they weren't getting the morphine they should have been getting.
> All the patients were suffering during the 8 hour day shift.
> ...


You really wanna get po'd, do a little research on how many people die from totally unnecessary operations each year because the "medical industry" makes a fortune off the operations, and the patients haven't a clue what the doctor's are up to.....most never seek a second/third opinion, just go with the first doctor's recommendation. Hospitalization, lab costs, anesthesia, surgery, recovery, meds, x-rays, MRI/CAT scans, yada, yada, yada...BIG business, and it ain't gettin' better! :brickwall:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

jeager106 said:


> People in recovery who attend regular meetings become really fine people.
> Why?
> They work daily, every day, on self improvement.
> They PRAY together at meetings.
> ...


I'd say good genes....only have a couple alcoholics in the family (that I know of, anyway), and when they get on a bender, it ain't pretty! Neither of them will admit they have a "problem," so not much can be done. I laugh and joke about my beer drinking, but the reality is I may have a 12 pack on the weekend, and end up with 4-5 of 'em left Monday. Don't touch the "hard stuff," but do drink a bit of wine, if the occasion warrants. Doctor tells me all liver/kidney functions are normal, so I guess a few beers now and then isn't gonna nail me with liver/kidney disease anytime soon...not after 70+ years, and my tests are still "normal." (On the other hand, let my doc tell me, "Hey, you need to put the alcohol down," and it's over....they'll call me the "Root Beer Man!") Some people just can't drink, and if that's you, and you put it down, MORE POWER TO YOU...you're doing what is necessary! Congratulations..:2thumb:


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Caribou said:


> We also have millions on prescription mood altering meds. The crazies will literally come out when those bottles run dry.


That's probably less an issue for you and more a burden for those living with them. Antidepressants are by far the most common medication which will likely mean an increase in suicide, not homicide.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

drfacefixer said:


> That's probably less an issue for you and more a burden for those living with them. Antidepressants are by far the most common medication which will likely mean an increase in suicide, not homicide.


I agree with drfacefixer and here comes the magic "BUT". Once the med's run out depression sets in and the the entire family becomes involved. Suicide, yes or murder suicide --- whole family. They won't be as dangerous to the general public but anyone close could be in harms way.

I cannot see any happy endings for anybody needing drugs / prescription or otherwise. Being a type 2 diabetic, I may have a fighting chance, since most of the the fun foods will be gone and my diet will have altered dramatically. I will also have to exert more energy to maintaining a food source. There goes my Microwave cooking..


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> I have family on these drugs and others addicted prescription drugs where it spills over to alcohol and whatever she can get. Whether it is a societal or family problem I'm going to have to deal with it.


I hear you and feel for you. As difficult or as mean, heartless as this is going to sound. DO NOT ENABLE them, ever. My adopted dad tried many times to "Help" his son rehab from alcohol. As he lay dying on the floor, his son was emptying his wallet and opening the safe.

I made sure his son paid the price but after the fact. i could not protect him, too much parental guilt feeling --- he figured he had failed his son. You take care of those that can be trusted, everybody else must fend for themselves. From reading your posts, I am sure you have tried to get them to "Smell the Coffee". After SHTF it is too late to be reforming.

JMHO -- You do what is best for your situation.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

The VA has been monitoring my pain medication now for some time even my insomnia pills ,I`ve seen many fights at the pharmacy line by GI`s that have had their drugs cut off demanding them ,police have even been call .Before renewal you have to be re evaluated ,and I work many years in the education system and many cases children have been taken care by grandparents because of parents death from drugs addiction or just living on the streets now is no wonder we have so many cases of youth crime in our streets today ,no parents, between gun violence and drugs is a very dangerous society we live in.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

One of the many types of people that will be a threat post shtf. Add lack of access to their drug of choice to a stressful situation and lack of repercussions in the form of law enforcement and you have a serious issue. I dont think any of them will last long but in the initial phases drug addicts are certainly something to keep in mind while preparing.


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## SewingMachine (Mar 26, 2017)

Meth isn't that addictive. Once people are off for a little while, they calm down fast. Coke is basically aspirin as far as addiction. Heroin and cigarettes are the 2 big ones, IMO.

A meth addict can probably make meth. He or she is going to want things to make it.

Anhydrous ammonia from a farm service plant.

Lithium AA batteries from a camera/convenience store.

Coleman lantern fluid from possibly your garage, but likely stolen from the hardware store, less likely-hood of home defense.

Drain cleaner: specifically fireball.

Salt. Available anywhere, for a while. Some might try using driveway salt out of desperation, so there's a threat of garage break in.

Coffee filters. In your house, but a lot of people have Kuerigs now, I would expect kitchen-window-peeping before a break in on the off chance. Businesses have coffee filters.

2 foot of polyurethane tubeing.

A 1 liter pop bottle, clear.

A gallon mason jar, or really big pickle jar.

Mini PsuedoEphedrine from the truck stop, except they mostly stopped selling that to kill the midwest meth epidemic. Most meth is meth EPHEDRINE, not methamphetamine. I wouldn't even know where to find amphetamines. Walgreen's? What would it be called? I don't know, and neither does a meth head. But both me and that meth head know we aren't going to find ingredients in your medicine cabinet. No worries. Who should be worried about meth heads? Meth dealers. They will become instant targets.

Alcoholics could probably be bartered with. I can make a still with a pressure cooker and some copper tubing. Maybe a way to get a supply of potatoes?

I agree with crackbottom. Yeah some people are going to freak out, and be a threat for a few weeks, but then they will thin themselves out, or come off it and wise up.

Yes, there are some really bad addicts, but most of them are me (formerly) , or the mailman, or the city road commissioner, or a kid's party clown.

Honest.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

SewingMachine...you said, "Alcoholics could probably be bartered with. I can make a still with a pressure cooker and some copper tubing. Maybe a way to get a supply of potatoes?"

Ummmm, you married???....I can plant the potatoes!!!! Oh, jeeeez, forget I said that, I already have three exes!! What am I thinking?? Bo, Bo, refrigerator run....:ignore::beercheer:


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> SewingMachine...you said, "Alcoholics could probably be bartered with. I can make a still with a pressure cooker and some copper tubing. Maybe a way to get a supply of potatoes?"
> 
> Ummmm, you married???....I can plant the potatoes!!!! Oh, jeeeez, forget I said that, I already have three exes!! What am I thinking?? Bo, Bo, refrigerator run....:ignore::beercheer:


Lol.........


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Pessimistic2 said:


> SewingMachine...you said, "Alcoholics could probably be bartered with. I can make a still with a pressure cooker and some copper tubing. Maybe a way to get a supply of potatoes?"
> 
> Ummmm, you married???....I can plant the potatoes!!!! Oh, jeeeez, forget I said that, I already have three exes!! What am I thinking?? Bo, Bo, refrigerator run....:ignore::beercheer:


I think he is a HE.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

*SewingMachine....*



Grimm said:


> I think he is a HE.


SewingMachine is a HE? Ooooops.... :surrender::scratch:dunno:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Grimm said:


> I think he is a HE.


I see that inserting foot into mouth is contagious. First me and now pessimistic2. We really do need to pay closer attention to this gender thing. I guess when you get this old, it kinda looses it's importance. Pessimistic2 -- has 3 ex's, maybe staying clear of the dating thing. Me, married with children and old to boot. With all this egg on my face, I will try to notice. :dunno:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> I see that inserting foot into mouth is contagious. First me and now pessimistic2. We really do need to pay closer attention to this gender thing. I guess when you get this old, it kinda looses it's importance. Pessimistic2 -- has 3 ex's, maybe staying clear of the dating thing. Me, married with children and old to boot. With all this egg on my face, I will try to notice. :dunno:


Foot? Foot hell, try the whole leg up to the knee! All I can do is drink the Fifth...I mean plead the Fifth......anything I say is gonna be embarrassing!!
Bo.....Bo......where are ya when I need ya????

Yeah, but with some of these "usernames," HOW DO YA TELL??? :scratch:dunno:artydance::wave:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Foot? Foot hell, try the whole leg up to the knee! All I can do is drink the Fifth...I mean plead the Fifth......anything I say is gonna be embarrassing!!
> Bo.....Bo......where are ya when I need ya????
> 
> Yeah, but with some of these "usernames," HOW DO YA TELL??? :scratch:dunno:artydance::wave:


Sorry Pess, we can't blame the user names. We are just not paying enough attention. I really wish I could but I did review some past posts and the information is there, darn it. :surrender:

For us old farts (at least me) it wold be nice if they all used names like Texas Lady or Cowboy Bob. But then we would have to have logged in as TMTGUY or PessMan. Oh well on to my next oop's. :rofl:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> I see that inserting foot into mouth is contagious. First me and now pessimistic2. We really do need to pay closer attention to this gender thing. I guess when you get this old, it kinda looses it's importance. Pessimistic2 -- has 3 ex's, maybe staying clear of the dating thing. Me, married with children and old to boot. With all this egg on my face, I will try to notice. :dunno:


Tried to get Bo to help me out here.......His reaction says it all.., AND he refused to make a beer run! Sheeesh! :dunno:


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

And AMMOSGT is a she


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

AmishHeart said:


> And AMMOSGT is a she


AmmoSgt is gone.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Grimm said:


> AmmoSgt is gone.


I wanted to give this post a like, but as "out there" as AmmoSgt got at times, I'm gonna miss her/him (whatever)......hope she/he reconsiders. Came up with some good/valid points at times. Just had kind of an odd interpretation of "Constitutional Rights," and who those rights should benefit......but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Hell, RTG is annoying at times, stuck in that Socialist groove, but that doesn't mean we don't like/respect his "prepper" attitude.....it just means his social education has been slightly warped by the system he was raised in, and we gotta figure out some way to get him to break out of that mold.

There are others that can be annoying at times, and I'm likely one of them, hardheaded as I am, but so what, NO ONE is "perfect." "Politics/Social Science" is a sideline that, while it may affect our "attitudes," has very little to do with the practical application of "being prepared" should the unthinkable happen and the SHTF. Hell, there are die-hard Liberals who are "preparing for the worst"....not ALL of them are as dumb as a box of rocks....:hmmm:


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Pessimistic2 said:


> ...There are others that can be annoying at times... dumb as a box of rocks....:hmmm:


I was feeling left-out because you didn't mention me but then you did at the end of your post.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

TheLazyL said:


> I was feeling left-out because you didn't mention me but then you did at the end of your post.


Nahhhh, not "dumb as a box of rocks," just a bit slooooow, being stuck in 1868 as you are....ya need one a them "back to the future" machines.....'course then ya'd have ta figger out how to drive it.........


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Pessimistic2 said:


> I wanted to give this post a like, but as "out there" as AmmoSgt got at times, I'm gonna miss her/him (whatever)......hope she/he reconsiders. Came up with some good/valid points at times. Just had kind of an odd interpretation of "Constitutional Rights," and who those rights should benefit......but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
> 
> Hell, RTG is annoying at times, stuck in that Socialist groove, but that doesn't mean we don't like/respect his "prepper" attitude.....it just means his social education has been slightly warped by the system he was raised in, and we gotta figure out some way to get him to break out of that mold.
> 
> There are others that can be annoying at times, and I'm likely one of them, hardheaded as I am, but so what, NO ONE is "perfect." "Politics/Social Science" is a sideline that, while it may affect our "attitudes," has very little to do with the practical application of "being prepared" should the unthinkable happen and the SHTF. Hell, there are die-hard Liberals who are "preparing for the worst"....not ALL of them are as dumb as a box of rocks....:hmmm:


I think AmmoSgt was booted.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Grimm said:


> I think AmmoSgt was booted.


Oh.....wish her/him well......:ghost::admin"


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

AmishHeart said:


> And AMMOSGT is a she


Yea, I figured that out AFTER Grimm pointed it out.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

tmttactical said:


> Yea, I figured that out AFTER Grimm pointed it out.


Booting her was a stupid thing to do. She had some tried and true information and added a hell of a lot. Her military service passed the test. She knew what she was talking about plenty of times when others were merely guessing or regurgitating each other.

There were plenty of times when forum members said they support the military, but really they were only supporting an idealistic vision of what they think military service is.

Was her response a little over the top? Maybe but maybe not. The rainbow comment was double edged. Were you just jabbing at democrats or was it also a jab at being homosexual? Homosexuals that served prior to the repeal of don't ask don't tell gave up more rights that any other group supporting their country and that should be recognized and commended. You could have 25 years of perfect NCOERs/ OERs, have a myriad of decorations, have years of overseas tours and be dishonorably discharged the next day for being seen holding the hand of your loved one. Someone who loved you, supported you just as much as any other military spouse - but did so in the shadows and without the support from others in the unit. They also did it without utilizing any benefits of healthcare, mwr, commissary, to px. Pretty unpatriotic when you take from being a broad cultural topic and take it down to an actual personal relationship level. The military has always lead the way on social change and takes tremendous pride in this fact. The past 15 years has been a tremendous change in rape culture. It's still not completely there, but it's improving and not being dismissed or swept under the rug.

If you haven't walked 20 years in these shoes, then you probably won't understand why the comment would fire someone up. I've seen good people let go because of outrageous and unfair policy. I've seen people happily hurting these fair and just people in the name of "religious morality".

I'm glad to see that some people at least care more about getting content out of these conservations than merely making a community of people that all see through the same rose tinted glasses.

Tmt this is not directed at you. You've been fair in your responses and I don't think the intent was directed the way it was taken. But lumping democrats as being anti military didn't help. And I don't agree with the theme of that original thread. The military budgets and benefits have ALWAYS grown. Republicans just allow me to freely waste more money and not be nearly as accountable with my spending.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

drfacefixer said:


> Booting her was a stupid thing to do. She had some tried and true information and added a hell of a lot. Her military service passed the test. She knew what she was talking about plenty of times when others were merely guessing or regurgitating each other.
> 
> There were plenty of times when forum members said they support the military, but really they were only supporting an idealistic vision of what they think military service is.
> 
> ...


I was pointing at the hypocrisy of the Democratic party and for claiming to support Gay rights and also accepting money from Muslim countries that condemn gays to death. As for the military budget, I can only relate what I read and hear from people currently serving in the Military.

I don't think the general tone of AmmoSgt's reply was really directed at me. I did not appreciate the comment regarding my "Cheap Shot at the Military" but I also think the "Rainbow" comment set off something. I also don't like hypocrites like Bill Clinton .. The don't ask -- don't tell was a bunch of bull pucky. Either accept gays or don't but don't act like you are supporting them, when all you are doing is ducking the issue. I have never pretended to support Gays but then I don't advocate against them either. I don't think it is a great idea for women to be in combat either but I don't write my congressman about it. Not Female -- not for me to judge. Not gay-- not for me to judge.

As for lumping all democrats together, I have enough trouble conveying idea's without attempting to differentiate between moderate, progressive, conservative or what ever possible stereo type available. As the democrats call us "the deplorable's", I combine them as the far left liberal democrats. So yes, I combine Democrats as anti-military snow flakes. I am sure some are not but many are, so I generalize. Now everybody should know my position on liberals and not be surprised when I lump them together.

i am unhappy that AmmoSgt is gone. I did have some very good debates with her and she did bring a great deal of knowledge to this forum. I did not post a complaint and I would welcome her back.

Drfacefixer, I do not take your comments as personal. You have stated some very pertinent facts.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

drfacefixer said:


> Booting her was a stupid thing to do.


She was booted because she repeatedly called other member names. The mods had warned her time and time again not to do it and finally they had enough of her not listening.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Grimm said:


> She was booted because she repeatedly called other member names. The mods had warned her time and time again not to do it and finally they had enough of her not listening.


This is a catch 22 situation. I respect the Mod's have a very difficult job and without them this forum would turn into a complete disaster. I had not known of previous warnings. Ammosgt is very knowledgeable and provided information not readily available from most members but and here is the "CATCH 22" the warnings cannot go unheeded or they are worthless.

As I stated in another post, I would welcome her back but since I am involved in this situation, I am not going to post any more comments on this topic.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Grimm said:


> She was booted because she repeatedly called other member names. The mods had warned her time and time again not to do it and finally they had enough of her not listening.


That is the truth.

I , and I'm sure the other Moderators, *NEVER EVER* take this kind of action based on anyone's opinions , sex, color, religion, or politics.

We are only to enforce the rules.
I didn't write the rules.

Drfacefixer , please don't call me stupid for doing my job.

Jim


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

phideaux said:


> That is the truth.
> 
> I , and I'm sure the other Moderators, *NEVER EVER* take this kind of action based on anyone's opinions , sex, color, religion, or politics.
> 
> ...


I was able to figure out what happened based on AmmoSgt's interactions with the mods in the open forum. Not hard to do when you read more than just the threads you post in.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Doctors over prescribing ,over testing are making a bundle with the drug problems even drug manufactures like this one here; https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/dea-mallinckrodt/?utm_term=.c956de03994e ;is a shame and we all pay for it even urban America is seen a crisis, is not just big cities anymore, petty crime is up all over just so addicts can get some easy cash ,at the VA some veterans sell their meds for drug money, is a very sad situation.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

phideaux said:


> That is the truth.
> 
> I , and I'm sure the other Moderators, *NEVER EVER* take this kind of action based on anyone's opinions , sex, color, religion, or politics.
> 
> ...


I don't think Drfacefixer was trying to call you personally stupid. I think she (I am guessing gender --- darn I really have to pay more attention) was indicating that she felt removing a valued member was not in the best interest of the forum. I am also willing to bet DRfacefixer (see how I avoided gender identification) did not know about the previous warning either. I read every post but had not registered about previous warning, maybe before my time or I am too dense to notice.

I would not have your responsibility as a MOD for all the tea in China -- watch out if they offer all the coffee, we all have our weak (bribery) points.

Keep up the good work.

P.S. 45/70 kicks too darn hard. Shot one ---once, never again.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

phideaux said:


> That is the truth.
> 
> I , and I'm sure the other Moderators, *NEVER EVER* take this kind of action based on anyone's opinions , sex, color, religion, or politics.
> 
> ...


Jim, Boot me then if you believe I just called you stupid. There is an imperfection inherent in written language. I called the action stupid and here we criticize action ALOT without it being considered name calling. Jim, you seem to be fair and I actually was surprised to see name calling in the rules - mainly because people get away with using derogatory language as long as it's directed to a minority. As long as a members name is not the direct subject then I guess it's considered ok?

I just see this forum going through another lull and I am concerned. Bobb used to post well researched and factual arguments. Cowboy was a wealth of knowledge and did a lot to steer conversation back towards truth when misinformation got out of hand. Lobotomy still chimes in every know and again and his knowledge in certain areas is top notch. I've learned a lot and respect tsrwivey. Caribou and mase92 too. I still reread some of the discussions we had from years prior.

Posts where everyone is just pat each other of the butt do nothing to show substance. Ammo had revitalized that substance in her posts and that's what this forum needed more of.

Caribou, I am not alluding to Ammo being gay. She was just a fervent defender of all those that spent time defending this country no matter sex, color, orientation, religion, or politics. Her actions and somewhat unpolished, pointed, trailing sentences reminded me of a great SGM I served with.

She went off at times, but the majority of her action were not taken as inflammatory. In fact, they were the threads that usually were the most productive. They only deteriorated when the retort looked this. 
Ammo
1. Supporting fact 
2. Supporting fact
3. Presentation of my logical interpretation

Retort: 
Oh yeah... well if you think that way your one of them.

There is a double standard of what some of the more active members get away with. Aka "grimmslap" - isnt that where Grimm makes snide and snarky comments aimed to belittle the character of the poster rather than refute the argument? Last I checked in the forum rules, that was the job of the mods not members. And yes, I did see where you warned her a couple days ago.... believe it or not, I do see a few more threads that those I post in. I have just tried to frequent those that are either interesting to me or those where I may have more specialized knowledge.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

readytogo said:


> Doctors over prescribing ,over testing are making a bundle with the drug problems even drug manufactures like this one here; https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/dea-mallinckrodt/?utm_term=.c956de03994e ;is a shame and we all pay for it even urban America is seen a crisis, is not just big cities anymore, petty crime is up all over just so addicts can get some easy cash ,at the VA some veterans sell their meds for drug money, is a very sad situation.


 To get back on track.... Doctors make no money from prescribing. I could write you a prescription for the most expensive heart medication in the world and see $ 0.00 from that.I could write 1000 prescriptions for that medication, show it to the company and I would get nothing. You only make money when the company hires you to be their vocal piece and go to other doctors and present the companies information as a salesman. Then you are legally obligated to disclose conflict of interest. you Still arent making any money from prescribing. you are actually being paid as a consultant. Most people in these positions are not actively practicing, they are either well known on the lecture circuit for Continuing education or considered sell outs putting corporate pay over oath of service.

Opiods have mainly become an issue because 15 years ago we made pain the 5th vital sign. I ask you if you are having pain. You say yes. I say how much. You say lot. and if I haven't done anything to address the pain, then I haven't met the criteria for coding the visit. There are alot of reasons that people are over prescribed opiods. I will find a great article on it and send it your way.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

drfacefixer said:


> To get back on track.... Doctors make no money from prescribing. I could write you a prescription for the most expensive heart medication in the world and see $ 0.00 from that.I could write 1000 prescriptions for that medication, show it to the company and I would get nothing. You only make money when the company hires you to be their vocal piece and go to other doctors and present the companies information as a salesman. Then you are legally obligated to disclose conflict of interest. you Still arent making any money from prescribing. you are actually being paid as a consultant. Most people in these positions are not actively practicing, they are either well known on the lecture circuit for Continuing education or considered sell outs putting corporate pay over oath of service. Opiods have mainly become an issue because 15 years ago we made pain the 5th vital sign. I ask you if you are having pain. You say yes. I say how much. You say lot. and if I haven't done anything to address the pain, then I haven't met the criteria for coding the visit. There are alot of reasons that people are over prescribed opiods. I will find a great article on it and send it your way.


My primary care physician asked that, and since I have chronic pain from RA, I told her yes, and I have been taking Mobic for years......she took me off the Mobic and put me on Tramadol....seems to work pretty good, but but as I understand it from looking it up on the Web, it is a synthetic opiod and can be addictive. On the other hand the Mobic wasn't doing squat anymore, sooo....:dunno:


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Pessimistic2 said:


> My primary care physician asked that, and since I have chronic pain from RA, I told her yes, and I have been taking Mobic for years......she took me off the Mobic and put me on Tramadol....seems to work pretty good, but but as I understand it from looking it up on the Web, it is a synthetic opiod and can be addictive. On the other hand the Mobic wasn't doing squat anymore, sooo....:dunno:


Tramadol has less of an addictive issue and more of an abuse issue. When it first came to the market, it was touted as the non habit forming pain killer. It activates the same mu and kappa receptors as regular opioids, but was thought to lack the same euphoria that addicts seek. Leave it to an addict to push the limits. Some people will get euphoria from tramadol, but they usually are taking 5-6 tabs (50mg tabs) at a time. Thats a huge dose well above the MRD. It also has risks of seratonin sydrome...which means there are certain drug combinations to avoid - primarily SSRI antidepressants and drugs like cocaine and MDMA. The latter issues usually take care of themselves via overdose. But alot of people are on antidepressants for conditions usually associated with chronic disease and pain.

If it works for you and keeps you functional, all is well. I personally haven't seen any people develop tolerance to it. Usually, the issue we see is, those seeking opiods, tell us that tramadol didn't work for them. Those being switched from a different family of pain medication, seem to think it works fine.

RTG - here is that article of why the Medical community is rethinking asking about pain levels and feeling forced to making life "pain free". Obviosuly there is a difference between making life livable for someone with a chronic dehabilitating disease, but it was getting to a point where patient under going major surgery are asking..." but I'm not going to feel anything after right?"

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2016/10/making-pain-vital-sign-caused-opioid-crisis-heres.html


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

drfacefixer said:


> Tramadol has less of an addictive issue and more of an abuse issue. When it first came to the market, it was touted as the non habit forming pain killer. It activates the same mu and kappa receptors as regular opioids, but was thought to lack the same euphoria that addicts seek. Leave it to an addict to push the limits. Some people will get euphoria from tramadol, but they usually are taking 5-6 tabs (50mg tabs) at a time. Thats a huge dose well above the MRD. It also has risks of seratonin sydrome...which means there are certain drug combinations to avoid - primarily SSRI antidepressants and drugs like cocaine and MDMA. The latter issues usually take care of themselves via overdose. But alot of people are on antidepressants for conditions usually associated with chronic disease and pain.
> 
> If it works for you and keeps you functional, all is well. I personally haven't seen any people develop tolerance to it. Usually, the issue we see is, those seeking opiods, tell us that tramadol didn't work for them. Those being switched from a different family of pain medication, seem to think it works fine.
> 
> ...


Thanks....Doctor has me on 50mg, twice a day. Seems to work well.:wave:


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## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

Caribou said:


> We also have millions on prescription mood altering meds. The crazies will literally come out when those bottles run dry.


So glad we're not on the municipal water supply. Think a Berkey would help?


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Griff said:


> So glad we're not on the municipal water supply. Think a Berkey would help?


The BEST around in my humble, modest opinion....99.99% bacteria AND virus filtration. You got well water, gotta have one!!:wave:
http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> Excellent choice. If you are asking whether a Berkley will filter out the prescription drugs found in some municipal water systems, I don't have that answer. The best resource on that would be Berkey. The link is in the post above this one.


Instant links at your command....YES, the Berkey) DOES filter out prescription drugs, which are a MAJOR problem in some areas.
Excellent article below http://www.bigberkeywaterfilters.com/blog/category/pharmaceutical-drugs/
Excerpt: "
The Black Berkey Filters
You may have noticed that there are some very popular water filter companies that are starting to advertise that their filters remove pharmaceuticals from the drinking water. These filters are made with much lower quality filter ingredients, so a logical train of thought would be that if their filters remove them, and if the filtration media used is similar, then the black berkeys would be effective also. However, many of these larger companies are not providing test results to back up these claims, in addition to the fact that slight variations in filter media types can produce varying filtration results. Thus, at this point we reserve our positive endorsement for both these companies making the claims without testing results and our own black berkeys (until we have tests in hand), and rather provide this information so that the consumer can make the most informed decision possible. The reality is that this is a relatively new public concern and the water filtration industry as a whole needs to catch up quickly. 10/25/14 Update: The black berkeys have now undergone testing for pharmaceuticals and they removed these contaminants at above 99.9% Lots of Prescription Drugs Found in Drinking Water.
A study in 2008 found detectible levels of at least one of more than 100 different prescription drugs in the water supply serving 41 million Americans. Prescription drugs find their way into surface and drinking water supplies in a variety of ways:
Drugs and vitamins are often not completely metabolized by people and are excreted out into the sewer system. Because many sewage treatment plants are not equipped to filter out drugs, they simply wash into rivers and head downstream.
Improper disposal of unused prescriptions pollute our water ways. Advice circulated for years that unused drugs should be flushed down toilets might prevent misuse of unused drugs by people, but it's not the best solution to pharmaceutical disposal. AP found that an estimated 250 million pounds of pharmaceuticals are thrown out each year by hospitals and other healthcare facilities. Drugs of all kinds are routinely administered to livestock, either directly or in drug-laced feed. Rainwater runoff from animal feedlots has been found to contain antibiotics, synthetic hormones, and all sorts of other drugs."


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## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

Well, Thanks very much, Pessimistic2 and Caribou, too. 
That's real good to know. Just in case...


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

drfacefixer said:


> Booting her was a stupid thing to do. She had some tried and true information and added a hell of a lot. Her military service passed the test. She knew what she was talking about plenty of times when others were merely guessing or regurgitating each other.
> 
> There were plenty of times when forum members said they support the military, but really they were only supporting an idealistic vision of what they think military service is.
> 
> ...


 Ammo had a lot to give to the site and I don't know what happened as I wasn't here. Rainbow is the freakiest bunch of misfits I've ever seen. Not because they are homosexuals either but because of how they look and act.

If I like what you say I put a like on it which is most of the time. But keep your personal sex life to yourself. We all talk about family but not something as private as sex.

I don't care if you take an enema or a douce before sex but don't push your agenda on me or innocent children. And your VERY wrong about military rape going down, it has actually went up and most of it is male on male rape now. Most don't talk about it or report it is too embarassing plus they are attacked by the radical agenda pushers.

It is not fair to put a person attracted to men in with men or women in with women. Let the male homosexual go to the women side and the women homosexuals go to the men side. At least then the one being harassed is only one not the whole bunch.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

drfacefixer said:


> To get back on track.... Doctors make no money from prescribing. I could write you a prescription for the most expensive heart medication in the world and see $ 0.00 from that.I could write 1000 prescriptions for that medication, show it to the company and I would get nothing. You only make money when the company hires you to be their vocal piece and go to other doctors and present the companies information as a salesman. Then you are legally obligated to disclose conflict of interest. you Still arent making any money from prescribing. you are actually being paid as a consultant. Most people in these positions are not actively practicing, they are either well known on the lecture circuit for Continuing education or considered sell outs putting corporate pay over oath of service.
> 
> Opiods have mainly become an issue because 15 years ago we made pain the 5th vital sign. I ask you if you are having pain. You say yes. I say how much. You say lot. and if I haven't done anything to address the pain, then I haven't met the criteria for coding the visit. There are alot of reasons that people are over prescribed opiods. I will find a great article on it and send it your way.


Money to Doctors.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellne...s-doctors-revealed-database/story?id=11929217


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

5 VA facilities report missing, stolen drugs in Florida ,at the hospital yesterday the talk was that they have 2 employees in custody.
http://www.mysuncoast.com/news/loca...cle_7d7985d2-29d5-11e7-914b-9bec222b7a04.html


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

All this drug stuff resurfaced in the late 50s. There was problems in the early 1900s but I think the dust bowl and Depression halted most of it.

Then here come a mixture of deviants and communist that put it back in full gear. My mothers friend was first one I ever saw on valium. She had a nervous breakdown because of it. So much for nerve meds. Mama said the drug made her nuts. Now most of the nation is on something to get over the conditions of the condition society is in.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Meerkat said:


> All this drug stuff resurfaced in the late 50s. There was problems in the early 1900s but I think the dust bowl and Depression halted most of it. Then here come a mixture of deviants and communist that put it back in full gear. My mothers friend was first one I ever saw on valium. She had a nervous breakdown because of it. So much for nerve meds. Mama said the drug made her nuts. Now most of the nation is on something to get over the conditions of the condition society is in.


Valium was likely the worst thing that ever happened to the stressed out housewives of America.......Prozac might be the second worst (kids, teens, adults)....


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Grimm said:


> AmmoSgt is gone.


What happened, I didn't think she was all that bad or did she get too much heat from others?


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Viking said:


> What happened, I didn't think she was all that bad or did she get too much heat from others?


 Ammo was ok and she gave as much as she got but that was ok far as I'm concerned. I didn't know she was gone either till last couple days.

I know she didn't like me ' imagine that'? But I had no problem with her.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Viking said:


> What happened, I didn't think she was all that bad or did she get too much heat from others?


She got booted by Admin after many warnings from what I understand.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Viking said:


> What happened, I didn't think she was all that bad or did she get too much heat from others?


From what I have gathered she continued to bully, call names and was all round rude after repeated warnings and posts being deleted by the mods. They had enough and gave her a time out.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

This was on the web.
(One solution to reducing the number of people swept into the criminal justice system for drug law violations is to enact various forms of decriminalization of drug use and possession. Decriminalization is the removal of criminal penalties for drug law violations (usually possession for personal use). Roughly two dozen countries, and dozens of U.S. cities and states, have taken steps toward decriminalization. By decriminalizing possession and investing in treatment and harm reduction services, we can reduce the harms of drug misuse while improving public safety and health.)
https://mic.com/articles/110344/14-...-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening#.VAYVnJKpd
Criminals dealing on drugs should be deported or send to a work farm somewhere in Iraq but I know our legal system and equal rights for all will protect them from harm and all that but is just a thought .


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

I was listening to NPR news last week and i heard of one country ( cant remember which of hand) that did that. they thought it was a crisis when 1% of population was an addict. it took about 10 years or so to make the switch (in mentality of the people) but now less then 50% of the 1% are addicted.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Our president with all the disputes and controversies around the nation ,me included ,is right on the money ,we need to control our borders and eliminated all criminals ,drugs are killing our citizens ,yes the weak minded and yes nobody is forcing them to buy and take this drugs but they are our citizens anyway and need protection, honest hard working Americans are paying the prize also, not only as victims of crimes but our tax money is going to pay for police medical care emergency room treatments ,etc. My friend at the fire dept. said`s that everyday rescue is involved with someone on drugs so it hurts all of us ,but our legal system has to change also and it has nothing to do with our Constitution or the elimination of our rights at all ,is a national security issue an epidemic ,a shtf moment that is spreading and criminals have to pay the prize ,whether is my brother or sister or daughter ,if they sell or distribute drugs they most go to hell period ,it should be the law of the land .Criminals now are getting smarter most of the deadly drugs come from modern labs that also make legal drugs and they come from some of our trading partners ,even our own laws have contributed to this problem in more ways than none.
The War on Drugs: Creating crime, enriching criminals
http://www.countthecosts.org/sites/default/files/Crime-briefing.pdf


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

readytogo said:


> Our president with all the disputes and controversies around the nation ,me included ,is right on the money ,we need to control our borders and eliminated all criminals ,drugs are killing our citizens ,yes the weak minded and yes nobody is forcing them to buy and take this drugs but they are our citizens anyway and need protection, honest hard working Americans are paying the prize also, not only as victims of crimes but our tax money is going to pay for police medical care emergency room treatments ,etc. My friend at the fire dept. said`s that everyday rescue is involved with someone on drugs so it hurts all of us ,but our legal system has to change also and it has nothing to do with our Constitution or the elimination of our rights at all ,is a national security issue an epidemic ,a shtf moment that is spreading and criminals have to pay the prize ,whether is my brother or sister or daughter ,if they sell or distribute drugs they most go to hell period ,it should be the law of the land .Criminals now are getting smarter most of the deadly drugs come from modern labs that also make legal drugs and they come from some of our trading partners ,even our own laws have contributed to this problem in more ways than none.
> The War on Drugs: Creating crime, enriching criminals
> http://www.countthecosts.org/sites/default/files/Crime-briefing.pdf


 Most of the small time pushers are already in hell as they are addicts too. Who needs to go to hell are the ones allowing it to keep coming in. And they do allow it. I do agree addicts deserve to go to jail and kept away from society plus if you love one at least you know they are alive in prison.

Look at the gangs on every corner in major cities yet the ones they go after are ranchers, farmers, non criminal biker clubs who most are vets. Or they go after the small time addicts. The big mafias are left alone except a token one caught now and then. Radical muslim camps all over the nation and growing while others are gone after with tanks.

Now that the farmers are all out of business and most Americans are out of work and can't afford land it is going back to the states. Feds should not own land but most states work for feds so look for a drilling and mining boom and more foreign company's buying up the spoils. I bet Reid is licking his chops at the land deals coming.

We need to be very careful who we vote for this next election.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

readytogo said:


> Money to Doctors.
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Wellne...s-doctors-revealed-database/story?id=11929217


Exactly what I said....

From you article
"showed that nearly 400 of those doctors received payments of $100,000 or more to promote drugs, serve as medical consultants and speak at conferences"

They are paid to be salesmen, not getting paid to write prescriptions.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Truth is a small part of society really needs drugs to live but many abuse drugs or just take the dr. prescribed easy way out. 

Dr.s are no better or worse than the rest of us humans, some good some not so good. But they do get the bad end of the deal far as pay is concerned. Except for those mentioned above. 
I j


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

LOL Pess you caught me being intolerant.


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## Siskiyoumom (Apr 29, 2017)

I teach in a rural public school. I see the ravages of drug addiction and alcohol abuse on a daily basis in the behaviors and issues my students each and every day. It is so very painful for student to have totally screwed up birth parents. As a teacher a lot of my teaching day is consumed by the often bizarre behaviors of children who were born addicted to meth or have alcohol fetal syndrome. Factor in poverty, sexual deviancy in families such as hyper sexuality of the adults and exposure to porn and adults satisfying their libido in front of their kids, you have primary students acting out sexually in the primary grades in school. Parents will steal from the classroom and their children do as well. Lack of respect for adults at school is a daily grind and the few kids willing ready to learn suffer from the chaos brought into the class by the truly damaged little ones. Read the "Fourth Turning" to get glimpse into what the twenty years will be like.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Siskiyoumom said:


> I teach in a rural public school. I see the ravages of drug addiction and alcohol abuse on a daily basis in the behaviors and issues my students each and every day. It is so very painful for student to have totally screwed up birth parents. As a teacher a lot of my teaching day is consumed by the often bizarre behaviors of children who were born addicted to meth or have alcohol fetal syndrome. Factor in poverty, sexual deviancy in families such as hyper sexuality of the adults and exposure to porn and adults satisfying their libido in front of their kids, you have primary students acting out sexually in the primary grades in school. Parents will steal from the classroom and their children do as well. Lack of respect for adults at school is a daily grind and the few kids willing ready to learn suffer from the chaos brought into the class by the truly damaged little ones. Read the "Fourth Turning" to get glimpse into what the twenty years will be like.


Thank you for your post. I knew it was bad in the urban schools (been there) but I did not know it had gotten so bad in the rural school districts. I guess I was a bit naive to think it was isolated to the urban areas.

Growing up, the problems was mostly confined to the urban schools I attended. The rural school were a bit more focused on education and not child development and baby sitting for disinterested parents. I will keep my finger crossed that your experience improves.


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

The Fourth Turning!
Learned alot about that on Beck's show.


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