# More than 270K without power. Will they ever learn?



## Moby76065 (Jul 31, 2012)

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/20131214-ice-storm-power-outages-leave-questions.ece

Oncor estimates at least 500,000 customers in the Dallas-Fort Worth area lost power at some point in last weekend's ice storm, one of the largest outages in the company's long history running North Texas' power line network. Some might have waited just a single minute for power to be restored. But for those left without electricity for days on end, the question of why areas like the Park Cities were restored so quickly fermented throughout the storm and its aftermath.
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Not the first time, not the last!*


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I have to laugh as I was in a similar situation. We had an ice storm back in the early 2000's, don't exactly remember the dates. The place I was renting was on a 150' x 300' lot. They had just put in a 2,000 acre development to the North of where I rented, actually mostly surrounding it. Jose, Lisa and Gerald and his mother across the road were the only places on the road before the development went in.

We had a nasty ice storm, predicted and warned about for days before it happened. Jose, Gerald and I got together and made sure we had supplies, mostly firewood. Lisa was a southern gal so we included her because she was in the group. It ice stormed that night, power went out. We had a fire going and were just chatting and having a few adult beverages, enjoying the show. Knowing there is not much you can do we kept the puppies happy and partied a bit. Within 45 minutes the development had lights coming back on. The houses were no more than 300' from my place. We cheered as they came back on figuring we would be next, as we are right next door. We saw the utility trucks working right down the road, a few hundred yards. They left. We made calls the next morning and were informed we were 'on the list' but since there were only 4 homes on that particular line, we were a low priority. It took 7 days before we had power back on. They stated they worked by how many folks they could restore with a fix and with only 4 of us, we were low on the list. I don't know how many trees or breaks they had to fix for us but we were some of the last ones in the area to get electricity back. Was I pissed, yes. Was there anything I could do about it, no. We dealt with it as best we could. Screaming, hollering, bitching... about the situation did not affect the outcome. Being a bit prepared and just dealing with it did.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

To answer the question in the title line. No, they won't learn. Even ignoring disasters, the reliability of the grid in many locales, especially mine, is deteriorating. Toss in shutting down coal fired plants, the lack of spare transformers, inadequate emergency crews and anybody should be able to figure out that power outages are going to be more frequent and longer lasting. However, very few people are recognizing the problem or doing anything to prepare.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

normalcy bias


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Woody said:


> They stated they worked by how many folks they could restore with a fix and with only 4 of us, we were low on the list. I don't know how many trees or breaks they had to fix for us but we were some of the last ones in the area to get electricity back.


Wow, what a raw deal!

And they were in the area to boot!


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

My daughter and her family live on the same 'line' as the local hospital. She's not too worried when their power goes out briefly; cause they know the hospital lines will get fixed right away. Lucky her.

We live out a ways in ID; everything is underground...but still.... we are always prepared because the power can go out in the summer months as well as the winter months....

Its just a matter of time before there are small/medium 'grid down' situations across the nation; I feel that one is coming....


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We are low priority as well--only 5 houses on our line. The county won't even take care of the road bc there are so few on it. Its been in the county road system for 20 years and they've only winterized it once or twice. I'm going to petition after the first of the year to get it taken out of the system it doesn't cost much in taxes but I'm not paying for a service I don't get.

And no, no one will learn. Sis in law across the road is going total electric even though the main gas line runs thru her front yard. Power doesn't go off often but it happens and is off for days. No power=no heat for her. Also, their power bill will more than double, likely triple, having everything electric.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Most people have never dealt with a significant power outage. The longest one I've seen in my whole life is 12 hours. I'm prepared more for a long term power grid collapse due to hyperinflation although I am well prepared for any ice storm that gives us a 7 day power outage.

You have to be prepared ahead of time. If we knew a huge ice storm was coming most people couldn't prepare in time. Firewood is in limited supply. If you checked every hardware store in the Fox Valley maybe there's 100 kerosene heaters for an area with a population of 200,000.


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## LAROKE (Nov 20, 2013)

When Hurricane Wilma passed over us, my place was out for about ten days is I recall correctly. It was nice that first night since you don't see stars in South Florida very often. Neighborhoods within eyesight got power back in a couple of days but we were fed by a significant line that took longer for the out-of-state crews to jerry-rig. I have no complaints. I blogged about the initial storm.

Live from Hurricane Alley


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

I have nearly 40 years in the electrical industry, working for a large municipal utility, all but 3 of those years operating hydroelectric generation (2 years in substations, on the distribution side). 

I am VERY glad to be rural. I would NEVER have an all electric house (this one was purchased surplus from the utility, moved to its present site, and modified to not be all electric). I grew up with a propane refrigerator and kerosene lamps; my folks didn't get electricity until the early 1970's. 

The grid, such as it is, is becoming less reliable. The plants we had in the 60's and probably early 70's when I started, would likely be recoverable after a pretty good EMP. The plants we have today (same plants, but "improved" for years by our Engineers - the kind that can't get hired anywhere else, so go into civil service), would not be recoverable. They are unreliable and much of their black start capability has been destroyed. We are not unique.

Utilities are not the only things run today by increasingly sociopathic "managers" who don't understand what they are managing (I heard our Generation Director open his mouth and make it clear he doesn't know the difference between voltage and frequency). This is happening all over. Institutional knowledge is being devalued and driven out. Competence is not emphasized. The people who know how to keep our infrastructure working are getting old and retiring. 

Do not bet your life on your energy supplier, your water department or the people who pump your sewage to the treatment plant. Your highway dept. suffers from the same problem. 

See what you can do to make your home need less power to get by. Then arrange alternatives to assure you will have that minimum for some time. 

I collect kerosene lamps. Oneday I will need them.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> We are low priority as well--only 5 houses on our line. The county won't even take care of the road bc there are so few on it. Its been in the county road system for 20 years and they've only winterized it once or twice. I'm going to petition after the first of the year to get it taken out of the system it doesn't cost much in taxes but I'm not paying for a service I don't get.
> 
> And no, no one will learn. Sis in law across the road is going total electric even though the main gas line runs thru her front yard. Power doesn't go off often but it happens and is off for days. No power=no heat for her. Also, their power bill will more than double, likely triple, having everything electric.


Perhaps she should get a wood stove in there.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

ContinualHarvest said:


> Perhaps she should get a wood stove in there.


Gas is relatively cheap reliable compared to electricity. Not taking advantage of that choice is foolish, even if you aren't a prepper.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We lived in an all electric house in town, an ice storm blew through & knocked our power out for 7-8 days. We stayed at my mom's house, along with 3 of my siblings & their families.  I was traumatized & started prepping so my family never had to live through that again.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

tsrwivey said:


> We lived in an all electric house in town, an ice storm blew through & knocked our power out for 7-8 days. We stayed at my mom's house, along with 3 of my siblings & their families.  I was traumatized & started prepping so my family never had to live through that again.


I stand corrected, someone learned.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Too lazy. They don't want to do gas bc they have to dig the line and pay $400 for meter, hookup and lines. We only pay $8 per thousand. An all electric house runs about $130 per month in the winter here. Power with gas heat is $45 per month. We usually burn 2-3 thousand per month so even then its cheaper than total electric and you don't have to worry about freezing is the power goes out. 

Sent from my MB886 using Survival Forum mobile app


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Funny thing I learned in my landlord days: All three rentals had propane heaters. All three had emergency generators adequate to carry the well pump, microwave, fridge, freezer, some lights and the little blower on the gas heater.

Two of the rentals still had electric water heaters. Those renters were likely to stiff the propane company, run their tanks empty, use the electric baseboard heaters in winter, then cry the blues when the power went out and the little standby generator couldn't heat the house.

One of the rentals had a propane water heater. Those renters tended to pay the propane bill. People don't like cold showers.

Another factor contributing to unreliability of the grid is "deregulation." Whenever you've heard "tax reform," the rule book got thicker and the print finer, right? Same with "deregulation." It is really REregulation that hit us in 2000, _literally_ 800 pages of fine print. Now we have people who own no generators or transformers or power lines. They have computers and fax machines, and they are "power brokers," marketers bent on commodity trading. These days, the system is operated not so much according to the rules of physics and electricity as it is according to cutthroat economics and politics. Companies will deliberately load a line to maximum to prevent a competitor from "wheeling" power over it. Voltage and frequency excursions are increasing. The end result to customers is that power becomes more expensive and less reliable. To a worker in the industry, it means the job becomes less secure and less well paid.

I see that as rooftop solar arrays become better and more popular, utilities are fighting the PURPA law of 1978, requiring them to pay small power producers a per kWh amount equal to their avoided cost of generation. Hawaii's biggest utility has effectively prevented any more customers with rooftop solar from connecting to the grid. So: By the time you develop your alternate source(s) you may be blocked from connecting to the grid and selling a few kWh back to your utility. Best plan to separate your loads.


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