# I won a gun



## Sentry18

The other week I went to the local indoor range (which I rarely do) because it was below zero outside and I didn't want to freeze to death outdoors. I arrived and discovered that the range was _sort of_ closed for a competition that was part of an advertising campaign for a new gun shop opening up in a small nearby community. For $30 I would receive 100 rounds of ammo and I could shoot the 4 stages. I wanted to shoot so I said okay and signed up. I had to wait a bit but when my turn came up I let my FNS-9 do the talking for me. Afterwards they said "Thanks everyone, we will send out the scores and notify the winners next week". I then got in some actual range time.

Today I got an email that I won the "9/40" competition and could stop by and pick up my prize. I drove out to the range and picked up a gift certificate good for the handgun of my choice (value not to exceed $500 retail) at the new gun shop. I came back to my office and looked at their website, they seem to be deeply into Glock and Ruger but did have a number of other guns. I will go out there tomorrow and see for myself.

So now the question is what should I get? I could get a Gen4 G19, they are very popular and never lose value. I could get the new Ruger American Pistol in 9mm. I could get a Walther PPQ M2 if I add a few dollars. I considered an H&K VP9, but I hate paddle mag releases. I could wait (as the certificate is valid for a year) and see what comes out at the Shot Show next week. But then what if the gun shop goes under? I lose out completely. What to do, what to do...


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## AKPrepper

For me, I'd go with the Glock. It isn't the sexiest pistol on the market, but when you need it to go bang.....it does. I have a gen 2 Glock 19 and I've put literally thousands of rounds through it in the years I've owned it, and have yet to have one single malfunction.


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## ZoomZoom

Congratulations!!!

I'd like to check out one of those new Ruger American's.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...riker-fired-ruger-american-pistol-9mm-45-acp/

Waiting to hear the reviews after the Shot show.


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## Sentry18

I got a call from a dealer once that he had gotten on a pile of used PD trade in 2nd Gen G19's (from Boston) and was selling them for a song. I bought 5 of them. Wife has one, oldest son has one, Dad has one, father in law has one and one is sitting in the drawer to the left of me as I type. I did an armorer's rebuild them on right away, but every single one of them has been 100%. I also have a couple 3rd Gen Glock 19's, but no Gen4's. By the way the $15 Magpul G19 mags work very well in them. 

The RAP 9mm from Ruger looks like an interesting gun and is definitely a departure from their lawyer based designs. My concern is shooting comfort. The area where the web of you hand goes seems very block and oddly shaped. Some early reviewer have complained about their knuckles taking a pounding from it, but I have to believe Ruger T&E'd it before its release. 

I am starting to thinking about the FNH FNS-9C. I recently bought myself the full size version and the compact seems like a natural next step. But we'll see. It is as long as a G19 in the slide, but short like a G26 in the grip. More importantly it feels good in the hand, something no Glock has every done.


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## Tweto

I was just at the gun store today. I wanted to look at a few of the smaller carry guns. I wanted the Sig P224 9mm and they didn't have any and none of them in their stores within a few states.

I did find a Glock M26, my second choice, and it was the only one in several states. 

I don't know what's going on. Sentry, if you find what you want, buy it quick!


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## Sentry18

What's going on is the greatest gun salesman the world has ever known just had a town hall meeting and the cash registers starting humming.


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## TheLazyL

Sentry18 said:


> ...Today I got an email that I won the "9/40" competition and could stop by and pick up my prize. ...So now the question is what should I get? ...What to do, what to do...


Take your soon to be son-in-law shopping? :rofl:


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## bacpacker

I have 2 Glocks, G17 & G26. Never had any issues with either. If you should be looking for a small concealed pistol, I picked up a Sig RS290. I have been carrying it for a few months now and have been very satisfied. Down side, it comes with 2 mags, 1-6 rd, 1-8 rd. That is much less than the Glocks. But the size is smaller than even the G43, which I think has a 8 rd magazine also.

Free pistol...can't beat that. Congrats


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## Dakine

hmm too bad it's not $500 towards the value of any pistol, a FN 5.7 would be really nice at a 500 discount price!

here a Glock runs just over $500, I got my last two for $520 and $525, but we pay premium prices for being gun enthusiasts dumb enough to still be living in kommiefornia lol!

another Sig? you like the one you just got so much, may as well get another.. you know, for spare parts!


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## Caribou

Dakine said:


> hmm too bad it's not $500 towards the value of any pistol, a FN 5.7 would be really nice at a 500 discount price!
> 
> here a Glock runs just over $500, I got my last two for $520 and $525, but we pay premium prices for being gun enthusiasts dumb enough to still be living in kommiefornia lol!
> 
> another Sig? you like the one you just got so much, may as well get another.. you know, for spare parts!


The 9MM Glocks are $425 with the M&P pricing.

So Sentry, do you go for a different toy for the novelty or do you buy something that matches the magazines you already have?


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## Sentry18

I can pick up a Glock or M&P for $398 but I doubt this new place is a blue label dealer. 

If I buy something to match the magazines I already have, the list does not get much shorter but does exclude pretty much anything released at Shot Show. 

I thought about an FN57 (or the nearly identically powered & higher capacity Kel-Tec PMR-30) but I could see them quickly just becoming safe queens.

I have a CZ P-07 Gen 1 and have been thinking about getting a CZ P-07 Gen 2, or maybe even a CZ P-09. I have also been perusing the local gun trade boards. Maybe I can find something that I want and trade the gift certificate for it. Of course that FNS 9C keeps calling me too, and they have them in stock. I really like my FNS 9 full size. It is a lot like the M&P but has a slightly better build quality and better stock trigger. Even fits in many of my M&P holsters. Downside to the compact version is magazine availability and price. $44 each when you can find them. My oldest son wants me to get an XD Mod.2 SC 9mm because "it looks cool".


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## mojo4

I really like the glock 43. Small and easy to conceal. Also shoots great for a micro. Only problem is that the magazine isn't interchangeable with the rest of the 9mm mags since it's a single stack. But I'm a huge fan of glocks so I might be a tad biased!


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## Cabowabo

Have you checked out the CZ Scorpion? You'll need to add a couple hundred on it; but I've had one for a year and I love it. I'd prefer to have a MP5, but the Scorpion was half the cost.


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## Sentry18

I considered a Glock 43, but the ergos aren't great (for me) and the capacity is lacking. With the short mag both my S&W Shield's, my Ruger LC9S and my SA XD-S are all 7 rounds and they are all about the same size. I will probably get one at some point through Glock's blue label program. Last time I asked they were $360 but you had to sit on a list and wait for a phone call. 

The Scorpion is pretty cool, but I would have to add on a KAC stabilizer as I would not want register one as an SBR. I already have an MP5 clone (AA89K SBR) that fill the roll of 9mm subgun. Plus I have an AR-15 9mm rifle and AR-15 9mm pistol. This is another gun with LEO pricing, and while I cannot say what it is (I signed a form) I can say it is much less than normal gun shop pricing. 

I went to the gun shop on Saturday and handled several guns. The FNS-9C was pretty nice, but the mag release is really stiff (intentionally) and mags are almost impossible to find. The Walther PPQ M2 really caught my attention with it's custom-level trigger and nice ergos. But it's priced about $100 over what I think it should be. They were sold out of Glock 19's of any generation and said that Obama speech wiped out their supply of G19's and entry level AR-15's. Even my LEO supplier is out of G19's. I handled the Ruger American Pistol and decided to pass. I think it needed one more pass through T&E before it was ready for production. The grip is just weird and the gun is 4-5oz heavier than it should be. They should have just come out with a Gen2 SR9 without the lawyer enhancements, manual safety and with better sights. I think I am just gonna sit her for a few weeks and see what comes out of the Shot Show. I really want a Beretta APX but no one is even sure they are going to bring it to market. SIG is also coming out with a new hush-hush 9mm, which could be an enhance P320 or maybe a slim P320. I will just have to wait and see...


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## TimB

Congratulations on the win. :2thumb: At least you are open to different models. SIL's department changed from Berettas several years ago to S&Ws. They are about to change to Glocks and he hates the thought of it. 
I started out with a G21 (let my son talk me out of it :brickwall: ) and now carry a G22. Out of all the pistols I've owned the only one I liked better than a Glock was a Colt Double Eagle 10mm that I let go in a moment of weakness.


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## Magus

Browning Hi-power, 1911, or a big rock!
TimB, are you the same TimB from Postal?


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## TimB

Magus said:


> Browning Hi-power, 1911, or a big rock!
> TimB, are you the same TimB from Postal?


Postal what? 
Probably not. I'm a retired Toyota tech from Gwinnett Co. that now lives in Cleveland.


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## bogey

Sentry the G19 is my all time favorite. It's never failed to fire when I pull the trigger, no matter what I put through it. But - I did get a smaller 9 mm in the Sig p938. I don't like the lower capacity, but it has a good size on it for concealed carry. I also like that I can carry cocked and locked but with the safety on - like the 1911 model. It would take a couple more dollars, but that $500 would put a dent in it. Depends on which trim you get on it. Has multiple options. I find the grooves on the trigger can get bothersome with repeated pulls when practicing. But other than that I've liked it and not had problems with failure to eject or feeds. 

And with the extended grip mag in it, my husband has no problems getting all fingers to fit.


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## Caribou

Here is my choice. You will have to add quite a bit but a $500 discount would help.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...-integrally-suppressed-9mm-prototype-handgun/

New from SilencerCo: 3D Printed Integrally Suppressed 9mm Prototype Handgun
By Dean Weingarten on January 20, 2016
Courtesy Dean Weingarten SilencerCoIntegrallySuppressed9mm2016

One of the first items attracting a significant amount of attention at the Shot Show Industry Day at the Range: SilencerCo's integrally suppressed 9mm handgun. They'd brought out a similar prototype in September of 2015; this was the new, improved version. SilencerCo hopes to have them on the market some time in 2016. Of course, you'll need a tax stamp from the ATF and it's not going to be cheap. Rumors place the price at around $2k. Some excellent design features have been incorporated in the prototype . . .

The prototype uses Glock magazines, which are cheap, easily available, reliable and effective. Then can be shortened by an inch or two if subsonic loads are used, easily done by the owner in a few minutes. It reduces the loudest 9mm (124 grain +P+) to 139 db, below the level recommended for hearing protection. With subsonic 147 grain loads, it will be much quieter.

As I examined the grip, it occurred to me that the frame had been created using additive technology, commonly known as 3D printing. Confirmed; the frame had been prototyped with additive engineering.

SilencerCo3DFrame

In this image, you can clearly see the layering effect produced by 3D printers, where extremely tight tolerances are not necessary. 3D printing is becoming an industry standard. It's much cheaper to produce a prototype this way to see if everything fits, to find tweaks the product may need to work better.

Chet Alvord, Vice President of TacSol, believes that 3D printing is the way forward. "High tech machining (such as they do at Tactical Solutions) will be 'buggy whips' in 10 to 15 years," Avlord pronounced.

I handled the Silencerco pistol, but didn't shoot it. It was acceptable. It had been designed to be easily holsterable. The designer said he expected to build in capacity for a light and optical sights which wouldn't interfere with a holster. If you're willing to haul around a steel 1911, the SilencerCo integrally-suppressed pistol wouldn't be a burden.

The concept seems sound, an obvious integration that would have been perfected decades ago, if not for suppression of the gun muffler market by the obsolete National Firearms Act of 1934. The Chinese had a .32 integrally suppressed pistol based on the Browning 1900 design. A 9mm moves the concept into the very useful category.

With minimal muzzle flash and hearing protection (which maintains situational awareness), an integrally suppressed pistol would make a suitable home defense gun. It would also make a great firearm for open carry, and it's not out of the realm for concealed carry.

©2016 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice and link are included.


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## Sentry18

SilencerCo. actually made M&P version of that last year using an actual S&W (not 3D printed). Worked pretty well and would be perfect for home defense or range use. Almost too big to use for anything else. But I like the evolution of the design as long as they are now working on shrinking it down to a more manageable size.

This is a Gemtech Aurora on a G19. Much more size efficient, just not integral.


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## Sentry18

Made another trip to that gun shop this morning. Pretty sure I am going to buy a Walther P99 AS (anti-stress). They have one LNIB for $475 with 3 full capacity mags. It is almost identical in size to a G19, has a unique but very nice trigger for a striker fired gun, the ergos are excellent and the build quality is, well, German. I was leaning toward the Walther PPQ but they are $588 new with 2 mags (same price as a new P99AS) so I would have to add money. He has it on hold for me until next Monday as I think it over. I initially offered to trade my certificate for $250 worth of ammo, but the owner grinned and say "Sorry, but no". Different profit margins and available.


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## Sentry18

Well I picked up my FREE gun today. I got a notice that a dealer was seriously overstocked with M&P 9mm magazines and was offering them at clearance pricing for LEO's ($14.99/mag). So I ordered a pile of mags, went to the gun shop and picked up a new M&P 9mm full size. I already have many mags, holsters, spare parts and even a couple S&W performance center sears. So it just made sense (Caribou for the win!). Of course I already have several M&P's, so this one may become my wife's as she has been looking to move away from the Glock 19 (she has smallish hands). Or it might replace the S&W SD9 that is my bug out bag. Will post pics later when photobucket is finished with maintenance.


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## Caribou

Never a wrong choice on something like this. For taking the win I guess you'll be sending me that nasty old Glock 19 now that it is surplus.


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## fteter

Sentry18, congrats on the win!


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## Fn/Form

Sentry18, I suppose you're already aware of the barrel issues of the past with the M&P?


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## Sentry18

I know that the keyboard commandos of the interwebz took a minor fitment issue and turned it into the M&Pocalypse. 

We tested & evaluated the M&P and found that some guns did produce larger groups at longer distances than comparable guns by Glock, Sig & Beretta (3 of the big 4 LE gun makers). Where 3-4" is what one should expect, some M&P's would produce 2-3" and others would spread into the 5-7" range. A few local members of the 101st laptop brigade claimed larger groups, but no one could produce the results in front of our T&E group at the range. Then we discovered that the grouping deviation was based heavily on what weight of ammo we used. S&W addressed the issue and produced a somewhat tighter fitting barrel and changed the barrel twist rate from 1:18.75″ twist to the industry norm (and less exciting) 1:10 twist (just like Glock, Sig & Beretta). Instantly 2-4" became the consistent norm, of course fan boys (mostly Gaston's buddies) could not parrot and regurgitate enough that the M&P would essentially kick your Mom in the face and steal her pension. But like most of what is produced on the internet a kernel of truth becomes an ear of sensationalist BS. Since the barrle update further updates have been done to the M&P to improve trigger pull / feel and improve overall fit even more. In our testing the M&P actually produced better overall ratings (accuracy, reliability, durability, functionality & feel) than the Gen4 Glock. Of course since then Glock has made several updates and improvements to the Gen4 as well. Only Glock's marketing machine and brand protection legal team is one of the best in the business, so these things are kept much more quiet. Why do you think there are now 4 generations of "perfection"? Actually it's more like 7-8 but they keep that a secret too. I have both M&P's and Glocks (and FN's, and Sig's, and Beretta's, and....). They are all good serviceable guns. I personally shoot some better than others and like the way some feel better than others. To get a perfect handgun for me, I would need one made from scratch.

By the way, here is a partially picture of my M&P collection. About half of them. It's hard to get them all together for a group photo.


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## Fn/Form

Mmm... it's been more than rumor mill. Bill Riehl and others have had some interesting reads on it. Had some local metro/state guys with first-hand experience. 

Bottom line, prove the individual gear before use.


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## Sentry18

Like I said, there was a small kernel of truth to it for a short period of time but it was quickly corrected. Then the rumor took on a life of it's own and reality quickly went into the rear view. The same way that MAC said the new Ruger American Pistol would chew up your hand, so everyone came out saying it would chew up your hand. Until it turned out that it didn't. Now slowly but surely some people are reporting it doesn't while others claim their brother's uncle had a friend who said it chewed up his hand. I have read numerous reports that sling shot slide racking is bad, a high bore axis creates more muzzle flip, using a reload for self defense will land you in prison and slide lock levers were never meant to release the slide. All of which is of course BS but so many people believe it and repeat it that they all MUST be true (even though they're not). 

But yes, everything must be tested & evaluated.


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## Caribou

If we eliminated every firearm that ever had problems corrected after release barry would claim that as his highest achievement. Also, there is a difference between a problem that was corrected and an improvement.


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## Fn/Form

Sentry18 said:


> Like I said, there was a small kernel of truth to it for a short period of time but it was quickly corrected. Then the rumor took on a life of it's own and reality quickly went into the rear view. The same way that MAC said the new Ruger American Pistol would chew up your hand, so everyone came out saying it would chew up your hand. Until it turned out that it didn't. Now slowly but surely some people are reporting it doesn't while others claim their brother's uncle had a friend who said it chewed up his hand. I have read numerous reports that sling shot slide racking is bad, a high bore axis creates more muzzle flip, using a reload for self defense will land you in prison and slide lock levers were never meant to release the slide. All of which is of course BS but so many people believe it and repeat it that they all MUST be true (even though they're not).
> 
> But yes, everything must be tested & evaluated.


I'm not talking about limited barrel fit issues, unrelated opinions on bore height or hyperbole about other pistols. Their QC is an ongoing saga.


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## Sentry18

It is obvious that in your _opinion_ there are problems with that line. You are of course entitled to believe whatever you want. Since the M&P is consistently one of the most popular and best selling guns in America (for 10 years now), has a constantly growing aftermarket of support which now rivals Glock, has a very loyal and expanding fan base, numerous professional shooters have chosen the platform (and are winning with it) and it is unmatched in it's growth in law enforcement market share I would submit most others do not share that opinion. I personally served on the T&E board for the M&P and oversaw it's adoption by two different LE agencies. I interviewed the heads of other LE agencies (state and local) who adopted the M&P and received rave reviews. I have overseen the armorers who maintain hundreds of M&P's with bi-annual inspections. Every single one of them are still in service. Every single one of them have been problem free. I personally have over a dozen M&P's, and each of them have been ultra-reliable and trouble free. It's not my favorite gun, but it is every bit in the same class as Glock, Sig, Beretta, H&K and FN and maintains pretty much the same level of QC as those makers as well.


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## Fn/Form

Yeah, and other agencies have dropped them. TX DPS local, here. Unless you have a budget/protocol like DHS testing it is indeed a crap shoot of "opinions".

On opinions... I have a front row seat with an agency issuing 1500+. 90% of which do not see heavy use. Not confidence inspiring history, there. I wish I could publicize the info. But there's enough info already out there.

I think the same about Glock and all other current, mass produced pistols in the $500-600 price range. It's a machine built to a price point. Wring them out before trusting them, people. If you get the feeling you're going to need one, carry two.


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## Caribou

Me too! I won an 870 in a drawing at a gun show. First time I ever won anything. I think some of your luck rubbed off on me. Too bad the canoe tipped over on the drive home.


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## Sentry18

My Pastor won a Mossberg 500 the other week at a Friends of the NRA banquet. Maybe I am lucky!


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## biobacon

Are these people rubbing your head or something?


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## Sentry18

Let's remember that my gun was won through my skillset and not by random drawing. However I think my skillset was so amazing that a cloud of awesome began to hover around me. Some were fortunate enough to have inhaled it, others just found some as it leaked through the internet from my keyboard. Or perhaps my Pastor and Caribou are just living right and receiving blessing from God. Maybe the universe decided to place the odds in their favor. I suppose it is possible that the fix was in. Take your pick.


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## jeff47041

Caribou said:


> Me too! I won an 870 in a drawing at a gun show. First time I ever won anything. I think some of your luck rubbed off on me. Too bad the canoe tipped over on the drive home.


I did too! The day after Thanksgiving, we have our annual meeting at our Fish & Game club. I won a Ruger 10/22. Mine was just luck from knowing Sentry too.


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## Mase92

Gratz on the great shooting and win. As you can see there are as MANY opinions as guns. Hope you get what you want, but with any listed you can't go wrong.


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