# Levels of Preparedness



## weedygarden

Yesterday I posted the link to the new LDS Preparedness Manual (June 1, 2012). I think it has such excellent information and there are several pieces that I want to go into deeper on here. http://www.ldsavow.com/PrepManualGeneral.html?error=Please%20provide%20a% 20valid%20email%20address%20in%20order%20to%20down load%20the%20LDS%20Prep%20Manual.

I typed a copy of the Levels of Preparedness and want to post them. This information is so good for me, because it helps me to understand what is important in preparedness and how I am sorely lacking.

These are the levels and the guidelines for each:

*5 Levels of Preparedness*

*Level 0 Every Emergency is a Disaster*
Less than 2 weeks of food in the home
No water purification system
No bug out bag
No defensive weapons
No way to produce their own food
No physical gold or silver
No tangible assets to barter

*Level 1 Can survive two weeks of Minor Emergency (such as ice storm)*
Have sufficient water and food for two weeks of emergency
Able to heat house for two weeks without relying on the power grid by use of the power grid
Able to cook their meals for two weeks without relying on the power grid
Has a first aid kit
Likely has no defensive weapons
Must leave their home after two weeks due to lack of preparation

*Level 2: Can Survive One Month of an Emergency (such as major hurricane)*
Likely has a portable power generator and sufficient fuel for one month of operation
Has handguns or shotgun to defend their home
Has a month's work of canned goods to eat from
Has sufficient prescription medicines for 30 days
Has enough batteries for power a portable radio for 30 days

*Level 3: Can Survive Three Months of an Emergency (such as martial law or impacting earthquake)*
Has a deep-short term pantry
Likely has a water purification system
Likely has defensive weapon for each family member
Likely has some type of neighborhood safety watch or 24 hour security watch rotation at the home
Has stocked wood to burn in fireplace and/or iron stove
Has communication gear to keep track of local and world events
Has means to recharge batteries without relying on power grid
Has three months of prescription medications

*Level 4: Can Survive One Year of an Emergency (such as currency devaluation, economic depression)*
Has a deep short- and long-term food pantry
Likely has their own garden to produce food
Likely has small-sized farm animals to produce protein (chickens, goats, rabbits)
Has a deep supply of ammo (2000+ rounds per weapon)
Has a spare weapon in event of damage
Has mean to produce herbal medicines to replace prescriptions
Has a long-term store of antibiotics
Likely has dog for security watch
Has full 24 hour rotation of security watch on the home (requires 6 adults)
Show have secondary off-site storage of food, weapons, and ammo
Is ready to bug-out with full hiking and camping gear, if security situation degrades
Is able to educate their children at home

*Level 5: Can Survive Indefinitely from Home during an multi-year SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation*
Has a fully functioning large garden or small farm for food production
Is able to can and store the results of food harvest for the coming year
Is able to harvest seeds for next year's planting
Is able to raise multiple generations of farm animals (cattle, sheep, horses)
Has horses for local and distance travel
Has enough ammo to last a generation (10,000+ rounds per weapon)
Has spares of each weapon and lots of extra magazines
Able to generate their own fuel (bio-diesel, alcohol)
Likely has fully functional solar power bank with deep storage batteries
Has natural on-site water sources for farm and home
Has home-based business to generate income
Is able to build new building and make any necessary repairs to existing buildings
Is able to provide excess food for charity
Has a secondary residency (such as mountain cabin) for full bug-out
Is prepared for minor surgery and child birth at home
Has stores of gold and silver for barter
Is able to produce their clothing (from raw wool or raw cotton with spinning wheel and small loom)


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## lucaspm98

I'm in level three xcept I don't have a defensive weapon for everybody in the family. I guess I should consider it.


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## mojo4

Well I guess I'm mostly level 4 except for the critters....but I do have plans to get some as soon as TSHF and the HOA won't care about em! I also need a new wood stove, the one I have isn't the best but overall I'm not too bad considering this time last year I had nothing ready. Guess you can get a lot done when you get motivated!


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## *Andi

weedygarden said:


> *Level 5: Can Survive Indefinitely from Home during an multi-year SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation*
> Has a fully functioning large garden or small farm for food production
> Is able to can and store the results of food harvest for the coming year
> Is able to harvest seeds for next year's planting
> Is able to raise multiple generations of farm animals (cattle, sheep, horses)
> Has horses for local and distance travel
> Has enough ammo to last a generation (10,000+ rounds per weapon)
> Has spares of each weapon and lots of extra magazines
> Able to generate their own fuel (bio-diesel, alcohol)
> Likely has fully functional solar power bank with deep storage batteries
> Has natural on-site water sources for farm and home
> Has home-based business to generate income
> Is able to build new building and make any necessary repairs to existing buildings
> Is able to provide excess food for charity
> Has a secondary residency (such as mountain cabin) for full bug-out
> Is prepared for minor surgery and child birth at home
> Has stores of gold and silver for barter
> Is able to produce their clothing (from raw wool or raw cotton with spinning wheel and small loom)


Cool, I'm almost up~town ... 

All I need is:

1) Able to generate their own fuel (bio-diesel, alcohol)
2)functional solar power bank with deep storage batteries
3)Has stores of gold and silver for barter

As for lacking the 3 points :dunno: they are not very high on my "must have list" ... but that is just me.


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## md1911

This thread is good I guess to give a comparison. Before my devorice 3 years ago I was a level 4 well on the way to level 5. Now I'm stuck trying to get level 3 accomplished. When your renting a place and its in town it makes it very diffucult to have animals and to do much to your house. But I'm a solid level 3.


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## db2469

Great post, thanks! I'm only at level 2 and will slowly progress but have many questions I need answers to but that is one reason I joined this site yesterday...maybe this is the wrong thread to ask this but I will anyway...if things get really bad in the US and in my small town with folks looting, killing, to get what they don't have, my wife and I will have to hunker down in our cellar...I've read one should never have a generator indoors...or could I, with say, carbon monoxide detectors? I might get solar panels for power but they could get destroyed on the roof....any advice?
DB


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## Tnfarmgirl

We are a level 4 almost 5 minus the things Andi mentioned....I see now the biggest thing we are missing is weapons....our neighbor is HEAVILY armed and a good friend...I dont know...We talked tonight about buying another rifle or maybe two and enough ammo.....

Glad we found this board


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## CrackbottomLouis

md1911 said:


> This thread is good I guess to give a comparison. Beforedo my devorice 3 years ago I was a level 4 well on the way to level 5. Now I'm stuck trying to get level 3 accomplished. When your renting a place and its in town it makes it very diffucult to have animals and to do much to your house. But I'm a solid level 3.


Wow. Not alone. Just about level three again. I love how the original post pointed out SKILLS that would be necessary not just stocked goods. Too many folks I talk to are more worried about stocking stuff rather than learning stuff!


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## CrackbottomLouis

db2469 said:


> Great post, thanks! I'm only at level 2 and will slowly progress but have many questions I need answers to but that is one reason I joined this site yesterday...maybe this is the wrong thread to ask this but I will anyway...if things get really bad in the US and in my small town with folks looting, killing, to get what they don't have, my wife and I will have to hunker down in our cellar...I've read one should never have a generator indoors...or could I, with say, carbon monoxide detectors? I might get solar panels for power but they could get destroyed on the roof....any advice?
> DB


I have asked this question many times and never gotten an answer that makes the problem easy to solve. Best answer I got was dig a small well ventilated yet secure room adjacent to cellar wall. Every answer I have received stressed how dangerous carbon monoxide is. If you are going to try something out use a detector and run the generator while outside and away from the area. Dont sit in it and wait to hear beep! I know you wouldnt just being funny.


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## *Andi

db2469 said:


> ...I've read one should never have a generator indoors...or could I,


You read right ... a generator indoors is a No, No. 

A generator is great for when the power goes out for a short time ... but not for the long run. (Imo) Have you ever read a little house book.


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## tac803

Generators indoors = FMJ..."Fixin' to Meet Jesus".


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## LongRider

We have a propane generator in our pump house and one in the garage. Both are in boxes/closets with the exhaust vented outside. No problem as of yet.


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## sgtlito

Thanks for the information and link.. Really good read, just reading this I would say that I defiantly have some holes in my prepping..


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## LongRider

mojo4 said:


> Well I guess I'm mostly level 4 except for the critters....but I do have plans to get some as soon as TSHF and the HOA won't care about em!


Is there a work around the HOA? Learning animal husbandry after SHTF is going to be a very hard way to go. Expect failures, now it is a learning experience after SHTF it could mean starvation. After SHTF livestock of any kind is going to be at a premium. Depending on location and your connections it is possible no one will sell you any at any price. Just a thought that you want to consider


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## BillS

mojo4 said:


> Well I guess I'm mostly level 4 except for the critters....but I do have plans to get some as soon as TSHF and the HOA won't care about em! I also need a new wood stove, the one I have isn't the best but overall I'm not too bad considering this time last year I had nothing ready. Guess you can get a lot done when you get motivated!


The other problem is that after TSHF your animals will be killed for food by people who are hungry. There will be people who will kill a cow and only take a relatively small piece of meat for themselves. It would best to wait at least a few months after it hits the fan.


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## BillS

LongRider said:


> Is there a work around the HOA? Learning animal husbandry after SHTF is going to be a very hard way to go. Expect failures, now it is a learning experience after SHTF it could mean starvation. After SHTF livestock of any kind is going to be at a premium. Depending on location and your connections it is possible no one will sell you any at any price. Just a thought that you want to consider


Let's say it's the time of year when the calves and goats have been born and they're weaned. I'm sure there will be people with extra animals who will sell them for gold or silver or barter items or a combination of those things. Especially a year after the collapse when the roving hoards of hungry people are gone.


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## *Andi

BillS said:


> The other problem is that after TSHF your animals will be killed for food by people who are hungry. There will be people who will kill a cow and only take a relatively small piece of meat for themselves. It would best to wait at least a few months after it hits the fan.


Do tell ...

Do you think that maybe the folks with cows have a plan to take care of them?

Do you think that many folks have the skills to use a gun, clean an cow (even for a relatively small piece), then take that meat home and cook it?

Do you think that once it hits the fan, a person would have what it would take to barter for a cow and then get it home and have the skill to take care of it.

Just a few thoughts ...


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## LongRider

BillS said:


> Let's say it's the time of year when the calves and goats have been born and they're weaned. I'm sure there will be people with extra animals who will sell them for gold or silver or barter items or a combination of those things. Especially a year after the collapse when the roving hoards of hungry people are gone.


Excellent, we can assure that SHTF will hit this time of year? If it hits mid summer, fall, winter or early spring it is a long hungry wait. Add to that the time it takes for your livestock to be mature enough to breed and their offspring mature enough to butcher. I do sincerely wish you good luck with that.

We had a flock of turkeys die on us. One of the many experiences that has taught me that it is prudent to expect that things do not always go the way I plan. We can learn from our mistake and replace them, after SHTF that may not be the case. Once it hits the fan they can charge a starving man anything they want for an egg. Why would they sell him a chicken so that he would no longer needs to buy eggs?

To me survival is all about hoping for the best but being ready for the worst. Hope is not a plan. I am not willing to risk the lives of my loved ones nor myself on the hope that I can acquire the resources, skills, knowledge and experience necessary to survive after it has already hit the fan. I much prefer having the resources, skills, knowledge and experience I will need before it hits the fan. Which is why I am a member of this board and working on becoming self sustaining.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

i see that the list has one shortfall, that cannot be forgotten by the 5th level......and being from generations of preppers it is obvious and probably the most important.........preparing the next generation of preppers to continue what you and your previous generations have always done and continue to do, SURVIVE


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## mojo4

Well rider and bill I agree. Unfortunately I'm stuck between a foghorn and a leghorn! I have a friend who is holding chickens I can buy whenever so the key is to buy em before it gets too crappy and the price skyrockets. As far as animal security my parents are thinking of moving out of the city to a small farm. I highly encourage this as then we can start on goats and chicken learning curve while they are still cheap and plentiful. I would like cattle too but my uncle says they are a massive pain. I was at a stock show and saw minature cattle. The breeder says they eat a third of a full size cow but give half the meat. Does anybody have minis? A mini jersey would be great! I wish my granny would have kept the family ranch in new mexico, would've made things easier!!


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## *Andi

mojo4 said:


> Well rider and bill I agree. Unfortunately I'm stuck between a foghorn and a leghorn! I have a friend who is holding chickens I can buy whenever so the key is to buy em before it gets too crappy and the price skyrockets. As far as animal security my parents are thinking of moving out of the city to a small farm. I highly encourage this as then we can start on goats and chicken learning curve while they are still cheap and plentiful. I would like cattle too but my uncle says they are a massive pain. I was at a stock show and saw minature cattle. The breeder says they eat a third of a full size cow but give half the meat. Does anybody have minis? A mini jersey would be great! I wish my granny would have kept the family ranch in new mexico, would've made things easier!!


Here is an older thread on Mini cows ...

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f15/mini-cows-2452/


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## lilmama

This is good stuff. Shows where I am severally lacking. I'm going to print this out for my husband and others to read.


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## lilmama

Have any of you thought about goats? You get more out of them. You can keep more than cattle and they would be easier to move in a 'on the run' situation. Just a thought.


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## LincTex

lilmama said:


> Have any of you thought about goats? You get more out of them.


They are far easier to keep.

Ever notice what livestock they raise in the middle of nowhere in third-world countries? Goats! And for a darn good reason. Cattle won't live out in those desolate and barren lands. But even goats will just barely survive out there.


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## LongRider

lilmama said:


> Have any of you thought about goats? You get more out of them. You can keep more than cattle and they would be easier to move in a 'on the run' situation. Just a thought.


Absolutely, milk and meat. This year we will be building pens for goats and coops for chickens. Livestock is one of our shortfalls. But contrary to the "list" I do not think cattle and horses are necessary. If push comes to shove we will use goats for transportation as well as food. As long as no one calls me a hadji


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## bacpacker

We are at a solid level 4, and moving well into Level 5. However some of the stuff on level 4 & 5 doesn't fit into our plans. We do have others that aren't listed and IMO that is OK. Most everyone in this forum have different senario's they are planning for and most likely different secnario's they will face. Everybody has to work out what fits them best.

Like others mentioned, I believe skills are the top line things needed. It doesn't matter how much you have stored. It will run out at some point and you will have to do other things to take their place. Skills will last a life time and will never run out. You may not be able physically to do everything, certainly not after you get older, but you will still be able to teach others. In a long term situation that may even be more valuable.


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## mojo4

Well longrider you gotta post a pic of you riding lonesome dove style on a goat!! Do you wear spurs too??? Goats would be great but the taste isn't great. But it probly beats a weed sandwich. Thanks for the mini info andi, I guess those little fells have as many issues as the big kids!


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## LongRider

mojo4 said:


> Well longrider you gotta post a pic of you riding lonesome dove style on a goat!! Do you wear spurs too??? Goats would be great but the taste isn't great. But it probly beats a weed sandwich. Thanks for the mini info andi, I guess those little fells have as many issues as the big kids!


Don't think I ever said anything about riding a goat. Here are a couple of pics if you are unfamiliar with goat carts
























You can get directions with schematics on how to build a cart at How To Build A Goat Cart

Obviously you have not eaten very much goat. Goat meat is excellent, rich, tender and juicy. Can be used in most any recipe beef or pork is used. More people world wide eat goats than any other animal. They are hardy animals that are capable of thriving in most any environment with minimal care. You may want to learn and know a little something about a topic you seem to have such strong opinions about. As your comment appears to be a perfect example of contempt prior to investigation.


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## mojo4

Well you said you would use goats for transportation. Figgured you would ride em but what you do with consenting goats is your business. And I have eaten goat and I'm not a huge fan of the taste of the meat. But that's my opinion but its probably widely shared. Goats are popular because they can survive and thrive under conditions that cattle would quickly die under, not because they are so delicious.


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## lilmama

mojo4 said:


> Well you said you would use goats for transportation. Figgured you would ride em but what you do with consenting goats is your business. And I have eaten goat and I'm not a huge fan of the taste of the meat. But that's my opinion but its probably widely shared. Goats are popular because they can survive and thrive under conditions that cattle would quickly die under, not because they are so delicious.


I don't know bout that. Taste pretty good bbq.


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## lilmama

LongRider said:


> Absolutely, milk and meat. This year we will be building pens for goats and coops for chickens. Livestock is one of our shortfalls. But contrary to the "list" I do not think cattle and horses are necessary. If push comes to shove we will use goats for transportation as well as food. As long as no one calls me a hadji


We have a cow we are getting rid of because she is just too big and too costly for me and we have no way to breed her (and yes I know we could inseminate her). We do have a horse that we are keeping for transportation. We have children that I don't think I could carry very far if we had to walk. But besides that goats will give us all that and be easier to handle.


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## lilmama

LincTex said:


> They are far easier to keep.
> 
> Ever notice what livestock they raise in the middle of nowhere in third-world countries? Goats! And for a darn good reason. Cattle won't live out in those desolate and barren lands. But even goats will just barely survive out there.


Exactly what I was thinking.


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## LongRider

mojo4 said:


> And I have eaten goat and I'm not a huge fan of the taste of the meat.


I am curious a couple of questions if you don't mind. Do you have food bias? Nothing wrong with that. Some folks are just like that. I know some folks who can not eat anything that "grosses" them out for whatever reason, or anything they are not accustomed to. Also have to wonder if you have tried it more than once or twice I know folks who can make an Angus prime rib taste like dog do do. Also possible that if whoever cooked it was unfamiliar with it may have messed it up. Last are you sure it was goat and not mutton? Huge difference. Not a big deal really if you don't like you don't like it. I don't like freeze dried processed foods but have a ton of it stored


mojo4 said:


> I'm not a huge fan of the taste of the meat. But that's my opinion but its probably widely shared.


Correct, unless you count the vast majority of the worlds population. I know many Asians, Mid Easterners and Mediterranean people who prefer goat over beef any day. Stands to reason folks are going to have a preference to what they are accustomed to and more people on the planet are accustomed to eating goat, than beef or pork.


mojo4 said:


> Goats are popular because they can survive and thrive under conditions that cattle would quickly die under.


Exactly, that and it is one of the most if not the most productive meat animals. As this is a survival forum, it stands to reason many here would want to raise goats as their primary livestock after all if your livestock thrives you survive. Even if I did not like goat I'd still opt to raise goat as my primary meat animals due to its ability to thrive and produce good quality meat under most any condition. Since I like the taste it is a win win for us. Now keeping the wife from falling in love with them a whole different obstacle.


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## Emerald

OMGOODNESS!! I love goat.. you cook it whole like a hog on a spit and the meat is to die for.. with garlic and a few herbs and a bit of white wine and butter basting mop. 
and Cabrito is one of my favorites. in a fresh tortilla with beans and a bit of cheese or veggies nice spicy sauce (mole) and rice.. yum... When are we gonna get a drooly smily


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## LongRider

Emerald said:


> OMGOODNESS!! I love goat.. you cook it whole like a hog on a spit and the meat is to die for.. with garlic and a few herbs and a bit of white wine and butter basting mop.


Agreed it is one of the most succulent tender flavor filled meats there is. Don't get me wrong I love my game venison, elk, moose, bison, prong horn, bear, fowl, fish and shell fish but of domestic animals goat is one of the tastiest IMO. Better than chicken or pork (except bacon:2thumb: of course), tastier than a lot of cuts of beef too. But it is as a survival food that goat really shines. From kid to kibble in six months I don't think any other animal gives you more return for your efforts and investment.


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## HoppeEL4

Good posting. I can see holes like a lace curtain in our own situation. It's hard since I am the main one concerned about things...hubby is a tunnel vision guy and work gets his vision usually.

I feel we are fortunate that we rent but live in the country, have a deep well (we live in rain country so it is good water, plentiful). The off side to that is, well, it is a well and it takes electricity to run. I have been looking for a hand pump to put outdoors, but since we are renters, I am unsure of attaching something like this, will have to seek an ok (thats the part that sucks a bit).

We have chickens for eggs, plus we are getting broilers to raise in the other portion of the barn due to increasing prices from the midwest drought. We have raised rabbits, and they are pretty easy to raise, though, unless we must I will stick to chickens they take less time to raise to butcher (8 weeks).

I could agree goats can be a viable option, and love what we have in abundance here, blackberries. I also have to consider livestock like that take feed in winter when nothing is growing, so that could be an issue.

Worst yet for oh so many people, like ourselves, is limited resources and cash. This leaves us to chip away at things little by little. The only other thing people like ourselves can do is to make best use of our local natural resources, and beef up our skills.


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## Emerald

LongRider said:


> Agreed it is one of the most succulent tender flavor filled meats there is. Don't get me wrong I love my game venison, elk, moose, bison, prong horn, bear, fowl, fish and shell fish but of domestic animals goat is one of the tastiest IMO. Better than chicken or pork (except bacon:2thumb: of course), tastier than a lot of cuts of beef too. But it is as a survival food that goat really shines, From kid to kibble in six months I don't think any other animal gives you more return for your efforts and investment.


I too am a huge Carnivore! Venison is a favorite here. I love fishing too. The only shellfish I can catch locally that is good eating are Rusty Crayfish. invasive and tasty.
I have only had bear and elk once. bison and beefalo I've had off and on as they are raised near us and we have friends who bring it to covered dish dinners. yum... But if you even mention goat most people around here their nose go up and the yuck slips out. 
(don't make bacon from scratch... you will end up selling your car for more porkbelly to brine and smoke.. haha)


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## mojo4

Ok rider, I've thought about it some. I've had goat about 6 or 7 times and I've never like it but maybe it was crappy chefs!! I do cook lamb and my lamb gets rave reviews every time. I also love deer and elk and buffalo. In fact goat is the only red meat I didn't enjoy. I guess I gotta buy some and cook it myself. If it still sucks I'm outta options!! Guess I will trade my goats for chickens!! But I'm sure goat beats the nasty critters some people are planning to cook on the other thread. The thread where people are trading possum and **** and prarie dog recipes. Got nanny??


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> Worst yet for oh so many people, like ourselves, is limited resources and cash. This leaves us to chip away at things little by little. The only other thing people like ourselves can do is to make best use of our local natural resources, and beef up our skills.


There is an upside. Those that do not have a lot know how to live without a lot. You have a way of life, developing skills and a mindset that many are clueless about. I am among those who had to learn to conserve and preserve. It is one thing to know what berries are edible and picking a pie or two worth each year and going out and picking enough to preserve for a year. Or hunting knowing how to can meat but having the butcher cut it up and throwing it in the freezer. Things like that and much more are becoming instinctive a natural normal way of doing things. Compare that to the prepper who has everything a library of books and survival video's $70,000 BOV filled with top of the line gear. Accustomed to coming home after a day in his cubical to eat a processed meal sitting on the couch playing video games or a movie. On the week end he will go "camping" to practice his survival skill or spend some time on the range.

Now put him in a homestead identical to yours. The lights are off. Who do you think will adapt better? Have a better chance of surviving long term? As an example Squirrel stew is no ones definition of a gourmet meal but I can throw in some wild garlic, couple of carrots, taters, an onion maybe a turnip and make a tasty enough meal that I can enjoy and be grateful for. Compare that to the urban preppy prepper who has to eat squirrel to live gagging it down. For one it is a way of life for the other it is a struggle to live. I think that goes a long way in determining who can survive long term. So give yourself some credit you are way ahead of the game, you are already doing what many hope they can manage.


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## LongRider

mojo4 said:


> Ok rider, I've thought about it some. I've had goat about 6 or 7 times and I've never like it but maybe it was crappy chefs!! I do cook lamb and my lamb gets rave reviews every time. I also love deer and elk and buffalo. In fact goat is the only red meat I didn't enjoy. I guess I gotta buy some and cook it myself. If it still sucks I'm outta options!! Guess I will trade my goats for chickens!! But I'm sure goat beats the nasty critters some people are planning to cook on the other thread. The thread where people are trading possum and **** and prarie dog recipes. Got nanny??


OMG possum has to be the nastiest animals to eat there is nothing but a big gross ball of grease. Just remembering makes me nauseous. How anyone can manage to make something tasty out of something that starts out smelling like wino urine is beyond me. I know for a fact I can't. If I'm eating possum things have gotten really REALLY bad.

Actually if you raise goats even if they are not your on your top ten favorites says good things about your mind set. Glad you did not take my post as offensive, I do get not liking some things. I love lamb but mutton makes me gag. I can not even be in the same house it is cooked in.

I dunno what you like but there are some awesome Indian, Mediterranean (Greek) and as Emerald said Mexican recipes for goat. Maybe take one of your lamb dishes especially a sauce based dish like curry and substitute goat.


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## HoppeEL4

Appreciate the boost of morale Longrider, thanks.

I realize skills count for a lot. I know knowledge is also important. As for eating squirrel, I'd prefer to find something else if I could..I imagine it being chewy. Besides I have chickens, so an egg layer would be better fare than sqiurrel .


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> Appreciate the boost of morale Longrider, thanks.
> 
> I realize skills count for a lot. I know knowledge is also important. As for eating squirrel, I'd prefer to find something else if I could..I imagine it being chewy. Besides I have chickens, so an egg layer would be better fare than sqiurrel .


You're welcome and yes skill & knowledge will always beat out gear. Never let cash define who you are.

Apparently I used a bad analogy, and did not make my point. Which was about an attitude of gratitude and ability to thrive with little. Tried to think of something preppy prepper would consider gross and fail to appreciate. I think they eat eggs well enough.

Not my first choice either but that was not the point. That said, squirrel is stringy, is why stew is the way to go, cook it till it gets tender. Add some biscuits and it can make a pretty tasty and satisfying meal.


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## HoppeEL4

I am sure a lot of things would be satisfying when you are hungry....something some people have yet to experience.

What I was referring to was my egg laying hens would ceretainly not be as tender as a fryer or broiler (we raise them in close quarters to keep them lazy and tender). Hens move around a lot, they also take flight to some degree when they see me coming (pretty sure I have some goody for them, they get excited and do a flapping run to me!!), so they would be stringy, because of the worked muscle, if we had to eat them. Hope we do not have to, they are much better for their eggs.

I was up at the mountain (Hood) and saw all the Subaru types with their outdoor gear (sorry to those of you who own one, we just use it as a description for those types as they almost always have Subaru Outbacks). They had gear on top of those Subarus, inside, attached to their bodies, and in their backpacks.....

People have lost skills because they depend too much on either modern tools or conveniences, or simply favorable conditions. In a true SHTF survival scenario, none of those will be possible or to be counted on.


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## hillobeans

At least those "Subaru types" are getting outdoors. You could do a lot worse. As a Portlander, I definitely know what you're saying, but as a friend to a lot of those "Subaru types" (and yes, quite a few of them actually own Outbacks) I can't help but take exception. Sure, they've got feet in two worlds, but I'm not seeing anything wrong with that, really.


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## HoppeEL4

Hillobeans I get outdoors too, it is just the joke of many here about the amount of gear people tend have, and how too many these days seem to depend on gear too much. 

There is a lot of places that have historical photos and clips about people in the area of Mount Hood, for example, and when you see these photos, people are doing these outdoor activities without all this expensive gear, sometimes with improvised gear and they always look like they are having a lot of fun too. Good shoes count for a lot. Proper weight clothing is a must. However I think overspending on things is sometimes just overspending.

Now in the context of prepping, I have noticed as I went from site to site selling supposed special prepping gear, and noticed a lot of it can be had from much cheaper sources or could have been replaced with an item more readily available locally. A lot of the grain food items in bulk were very spendy (Honeyville for example, they are good, love looking, but prices are prohibitive), and I know I can get these amounts of grain based foods in bulk ordered through a local grocery chain.

Sure many of us tease about the set that has the gear, I admire their love of the outdoors and desire to be more in nature, it's just the generation I grew up in and the way we were raised also (practical, country from farmers and loggers), we learned to live simply and without needing a lot of gadgets, so I admit, it is hard to understand the need people seem to have for it.


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## LongRider

HoppeEL4 said:


> saw all the Subaru types with their outdoor gear


If you mean those yuppie preppy preppers who look down their nose at you because you do not have the latest techno gadget or titanium cook wear. In a survivalist context we call them waste of resources or waste of skin. If you know one you want to have some fun with, convince them to go survival camping. No pack only what they are wearing and what is their pockets. A knife and an Altoids tin of survival gear. Than drop them off deep in the sticks and come back to pick them up in three days. For a really good laugh arrive a day late.

Be sure that they have a cell phone in case they get in serious trouble but they will be fine four days without food or water. Don't answer their calls check the messages to see if they are in real trouble and not have to talk to them whining about being hungry or cold


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## d_saum

LongRider said:


> If you mean those yuppie preppy preppers who look down their nose at you because you do not have the latest techno gadget or titanium cook wear. In a survivalist context we call them waste of resources or waste of skin. If you know one you want to have some fun with, convince them to go survival camping. No pack only what they are wearing and what is their pockets. A knife and an Altoids tin of survival gear. Than drop them off deep in the sticks and come back to pick them up in three days.* For a really good laugh arrive a day late.*
> 
> Be sure that they have a cell phone in case they get in serious trouble but they will be fine four days without food or water. Don't answer their calls check the messages to see if they are in real trouble and not have to talk to them whining about being hungry or cold


LMAO... man, that's just mean... but DANG funny!!!!


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## hillobeans

HoppeEL4 said:


> Hillobeans I get outdoors too, it is just the joke of many here about the amount of gear people tend have, and how too many these days seem to depend on gear too much.
> 
> There is a lot of places that have historical photos and clips about people in the area of Mount Hood, for example, and when you see these photos, people are doing these outdoor activities without all this expensive gear, sometimes with improvised gear and they always look like they are having a lot of fun too. Good shoes count for a lot. Proper weight clothing is a must. However I think overspending on things is sometimes just overspending.
> 
> Now in the context of prepping, I have noticed as I went from site to site selling supposed special prepping gear, and noticed a lot of it can be had from much cheaper sources or could have been replaced with an item more readily available locally. A lot of the grain food items in bulk were very spendy (Honeyville for example, they are good, love looking, but prices are prohibitive), and I know I can get these amounts of grain based foods in bulk ordered through a local grocery chain.
> 
> Sure many of us tease about the set that has the gear, I admire their love of the outdoors and desire to be more in nature, it's just the generation I grew up in and the way we were raised also (practical, country from farmers and loggers), we learned to live simply and without needing a lot of gadgets, so I admit, it is hard to understand the need people seem to have for it.


Oh, I know you get outdoors- I've been admiring your posts since I started lurking at this site a while back. And I'm a little jealous of your location and skills. You've definitely got a leg up on this city slicker should the S hit the fan. It's just that I've seen a lot of hate being dished out to folks with fancy gear, weekend warrior-types, what have you. It seems that working your ass off in the city so you can get gear and commune with nature on the weekends should deserve less derision than those who spend their off hours with the Kardashians and a bag of Cheetos. That's all I'm saying.


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## Moby76065

I'm at level 2, need to get to level 3, eventually level 4.
Level 5 is not attainalbe for me.


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## hillobeans

I'm also at level 2 (without the generator) and working on level 3. Baby steps.


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## lefty

LongRider said:


> . A knife and an Altoids tin of survival gear. Than drop them off deep in the sticks and come back to pick them up in three days. For a really good laugh arrive a day late.


Hey wait I did that when i was a scout had a pocktet knife 3 matches, 20 ft of rope a poncho liner and a pound of ground beef and was taken into the woods and told to "don't die"  man things change


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## HoppeEL4

> It seems that working your ass off in the city so you can get gear and commune with nature on the weekends should deserve less derision than those who spend their off hours with the Kardashians and a bag of Cheetos.


Don't watch the Kardashians, had to have my daughter explain who they were and asked her why they were famous, she shrugged her shoulders and said it was probably because they had money, like Paris Hilton.

People who don't live in the city also come in to work hard in the city, my husband does it every day, we just chose to get outside of the rat race for our own current sanity, not so much the issue of prepping. We got tired of the gangs, the noise, the crime, and feeling like we were elbow to elbow with people. That was just in the east end of Gresham, Hillobeans since you know the region, I can't imagine how hard it has to be to live further in town and so close.

Many people I know don't so much laugh at people with the gear, but honestly do feel that if they felt concerned about being prepared to take nature on in SHTF scenario, what would happen if the gear breaks or gets ruined...then it is just you and nature without the expensive gear, then what?

I am not a movie buff, but one movie I did sit through and liked was City Slickers, the scene where Billy Crystal brings out the battery operated coffee grinder...and scares the cattle into a stampede. Funny only because if you know cattle thats all it would take. However in referance to how the "gear" fits into that, its all about whats really not necessary (or could pose a hazard to yourself as in the movie, sometimes those two worlds don't work well together). Like I said, sure these people are really enthusiastic and active and enjoy Gods creation, which is good. You just don't need thousands of dollars worth of stuff to do that.


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## hillobeans

HoppelEl4, I think you might have missed my point, but it really doesn't matter. I definitely see yours, and now that I think about it, it's probably just those people who have a decent acquaintance with nature (yet aren't really prepped for a disaster) who will probably head your direction when they run out of food.

The first City Slickers was a great movie- unfortunately I identify more with Billy Crystal's character than with Curley. I'm working on changing that, but it's a tough slog. Thank you for your post.


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## Jimmy24

Well short of a large solar setup and a lot of livestock, I fall into a strong 4 and weak 5....tried out what I do have a couple of weekends ago and did ok, other than just about melting down. AC will be missed down here in the deep south... The creek will be a busy place when it's hot...:sssh:

Jimmy


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## tsrwivey

We're almost a level 4 with only 4 adults instead of 6 & no hiking gear. We do live out in the country which decreases our need to leave for security reasons but do have a fully stocked BOV. We have had our own business for at least 15 years & hubby grew up a country boy hunting & cleaning game, fishing, chopping wood, bailing hay, tending livestock, etc.

Having said all that, when we go camping we pull up in our 5th wheel with nearly all the comforts of home. We couldn't care less what gear anyone else has or doesn't have & find it just a little bizarre that some think they can determine someone's ability to survive a SHTF situation based on their excess of gear. :scratch We garden nearly year round & practice our medical, electrical, building, mechanical, plumbing, supervising, & managing skills daily as part of our professions. We shoot regularly. We can & dry food. We cook from scratch. We did well on one income when we got two new kids for Christmas (they stayed 4 years) & when we got a family of four for Easter (they stayed 6 months). When we go camping, we go to relax & have fun not see how little we can do without. Maybe we're just weird. :dunno:


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## weedygarden

*Re-evaluating to see if I have jumped up a level*

I wanted to check this list again and to re-evaluate my level of preparedness.

I have made some progress, but definitely have a way to go. I don't have a generator or solar panels with battery backup, so that leaves me at a level one fully done, but have part of level two partially finished. I have been reading and researching power options lately which is what I do before I get ready to do my design and purchasing of any new items of value and investment. I have been working on water storage and cooking options. I need to work on communication devices (ham and walkie talkie).

Gee I wish I was at a level 5!


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## LincTex

weedygarden said:


> I don't have a generator or solar panels with battery backup... I have been reading and researching power options lately


Here you go - its a start! (prices are still dropping, too)

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-500-a-15496/


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## GrinnanBarrett

Nice post. I started to download the manual but stopped when I had to give them my email address. I prefer to stay a little bit below the radar if I can. When you are on any of these forums you are already too exposed anyway. GB


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## machinist

Well, I guess we are somewhere between a 2 and a 5, but it is hard to classify. No doubt we could live a year without leaving the place, but it would not be any fun. Some things I don't talk about, let alone post online for the world to see. Let's just say I'm not worried how we are going to make it.

I have NO intention of running off into the woods if TSHTF. I plan to be right here. If that gets compromised, there are alternatives, but I wouldn't like it. Yes, I know HOW to live in the woods, but that ain't my idea of a good time. I like my comforts. My experience has been that camping out is for younger folks. It was lots of fun when wife and I were 25 and the kids were small. But at retirement age, not so much.


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## weedygarden

GrinnanBarrett said:


> Nice post. I started to download the manual but stopped when I had to give them my email address. I prefer to stay a little bit below the radar if I can. When you are on any of these forums you are already too exposed anyway. GB


Ditto!

(The message you have left is too short!) Imagine that.


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## TheLazyL

GrinnanBarrett said:


> Nice post. I started to download the manual but stopped when I had to give them my email address. I prefer to stay a little bit below the radar if I can. When you are on any of these forums you are already too exposed anyway. GB


Make up an email address ...


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## invision

As the preppy prepper  couldn't resist I would say I am between 4-5, minus the animals, I have the acreage and nearly a million seeds properly stored for the farm/garden but haven't planted ... I am one of those that will have to wait for the neighborhood to not give a damn about some chickens, rabbits, And do the jumbo garden... Also we have the canning equipment ready to go and have practiced enough to know how to do meat, veggies, and fruits when the time is needed... We have enough farms around that we should be able to barter for horse, cow, even pigs.. And yes, I have both the gold, Silver and ammo to make that kind of trades... And, I should state I was raised in farm country - I have sheared sheep, helped with birthing of cows and sheep, assisted in slaughtering pigs and sheep, as well as deer, rabbits and squirrels. Even though I am the preppy prepper and I haven't done that stuff in 2x years, I have recently opened up such books like Firefox and went 'oh yeah, I remember that' and as for the alcohol still - got the parts but not partaking until it isn't so illegal -also I can make a killer rabbit gumbo from scratch and a decent squirrel stew - agree squirrel is stringy meat and can be tough if not cooked right.. Goats are on the to trade for list - more than a cow...


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## Wellrounded

I know your switched on invision but honestly having a million seeds and PM's to buy stock means diddly squat.


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## tsrwivey

I'm not sure how someone who is barely able to make it now, when things are relatively easy, is going to be able to make it post SHTF. I just don't understand that logic. Being poor doesn't mean you've learned anything, there are plenty of poor people who are poor as a direct result of their stupid choices, their inability to learn from said choices, & laziness. In a true SHTF situation, the poor will die in mass. I think we will all be surprised by how many rich folk make it just fine. 

I don't know about everyone else but the older I get the less "roughing it" I'm interested in doing & that reflects in my preps. Plus, I happen to enjoy gear shopping. Yep, a salvaged grate from a junk grill held up by two bricks can be used to cook on just like my volcano stove can, but I LIKE my volcano stove & could afford it so why not? Just because I have gear doesn't mean I can't do without it. I get paid because I can think outside the box, work with what's on hand, & get done what needs to be done. Gear doesn't suddenly make me too stupid to do without it.


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## readytogo

*My opinion on level 5.*

Level 5 is somewhat worrisome on a shtf or no rule of law how are you going to take care the farm, animals, horses for transportation, bio-diesel needs raw materials under a shtf event how will this materials be collected, you will need a tank to safeguard your water alone, excess food for charity minus well tell the outside world of your store goods and open the doors. In a collapse society no one is going to be safe from danger, and the best way to survived is to blend in, this little house on the prairie will be gone, The LDS church has been doing this for years, they are a society a group, they will protect each other, If you don`t have a large group to protect your endeavor, will not work. This is my opinion based after I have seen citizens rioting after natural events, without rule of law. I`m sorry.


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## tsrwivey

It would depend on where you live as to how dangerous a SHTF senerio is, readytogo. I agree, anywhere close to Miami or any large city for that matter, would be a very dangerous place to be. The more rural places far away from the cities, where livestock & farming are common, will be relatively safer. No one will enjoy the safety we do now.


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## pandamonium

tsrwivey said:


> No one will enjoy the safety we do now.


Quoted for truth!!!

I would say I am a solid 3 1/2. 
Security will always be a problem is wrol times. I have the equipment and skills to use them, but location will make things more challenging to defend. Not impossible just more challenging. Improvise, adapt, overcome!!


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## Toffee

I'm thinking we are a 2 or 2 1/2. We are slowly working on getting animals and becoming self-sufficient though. And our neighbors are almost all family, so that helps. Hopefully, everything works out and we can follow our 3 year plan: dog this year, chickens and tobacco next year, and sheep the year after.


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## weedygarden

I found this document. I have hesitated about posting it because the beginning of it has LDS church preaching on it. I tried to edit it out, but realized it is not so easy. So, in advance know that is not the purpose of this.

This document is about levels of preparedness, but it is different that the first one. The guidelines give specific items to have at each level.


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## Toffee

Toffee said:


> I'm thinking we are a 2 or 2 1/2. We are slowly working on getting animals and becoming self-sufficient though. And our neighbors are almost all family, so that helps. Hopefully, everything works out and we can follow our 3 year plan: dog this year, chickens and tobacco next year, and sheep the year after.


Well, things have changed in only 16 months. I would estimate us at a solid 4+ now. We would miss a few things and we would have to work very hard, but we could definitely make it quite some time now. I'm slowly filling our holes and making friends so that we have connections to people with things we can't produce, like beef and honey.


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## weedygarden

Toffee said:


> Well, things have changed in only 16 months. I would estimate us at a solid 4+ now. We would miss a few things and we would have to work very hard, but we could definitely make it quite some time now. I'm slowly filling our holes and making friends so that we have connections to people with things we can't produce, like beef and honey.


I haven't looked tonight, but what I know is that looking at these levels and finding my holes in my preps has always helped me to advance. I like to bring back threads like this for myself as well. I know I am in much better shape than I was 2 or 3 years ago. I keep making my personal goal list and checking off items as I acquire them.


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## Asatrur

weedygarden said:


> I found this document. I have hesitated about posting it because the beginning of it has LDS church preaching on it. I tried to edit it out, but realized it is not so easy. So, in advance know that is not the purpose of this.
> 
> This document is about levels of preparedness, but it is different that the first one. The guidelines give specific items to have at each level.


As you know WG, I am far from being part of a "standard" faith, but the LDS are a great resource for prepping and I have found them to be a good source of friends.


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## weedygarden

Asatrur said:


> As you know WG, I am far from being part of a "standard" faith, but the LDS are a great resource for prepping and I have found them to be a good source of friends.


Asatrur, yes. Even amongst those of us who call ourselves Christians there is a great variation in what we believe and don't believe.

I too have found the LDS are a great resource for prepping knowledge. I took a food storage class from them in 1980 or 81. I buy food storage items at the Family Resource Center. I keep copies of their preparedness guidelines and refer to them from time to time for guidance. I am into genealogy and have been to several of their Family History Centers including the big library in Salt Lake City.

All of that, and I do not believe in their spiritual teachings. When they hear about my interests in preparedness and genealogy, they really think I should be one of them. I have two very good friends who are LDS whom I saw this summer. If and when SHTF, I would find no better people to be in a MAG with. But I do not choose my friends by their spiritual beliefs.

FWIW, some of the worst people I have known claim to be Christians, claiming they are serving God while looking down their noses at me. I do not spend time with people who are all about finding fault with others. I do not like to spend time around people who are busy judging and talking about others. I choose my friends by their values. I am interested in people who are trying to be self sufficient, not in people who want to be dependents. I am interested in people who are honest, not people who will lie to me every first chance they get. I am interested in people who know how to respect others and their individuality, not expecting us all to be clones. I guess the bottom line of that is that I do not like to be used. That ends friendships for me faster than anything else.

Asatrur, I hope all is well with you and your family. I hope you had a great summer!


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## HardCider

I'm at the small town, dumb @$$ country boy stage. I think that's about a -2 to 0 level. I'm right plum out of gold cept for this here band on my hand and I ain't givin that up no matter how hard it gets. No land, no water, no food, no shelter, no guns, no ammo, nothing to see here folks, move along


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## tleeh1

HardCider said:


> I'm at the small town, dumb @$$ country boy stage. I think that's about a -2 to 0 level. I'm right plum out of gold cept for this here band on my hand and I ain't givin that up no matter how hard it gets. No land, no water, no food, no shelter, no guns, no ammo, nothing to see here folks, move along


Well...that makes it easy. Only one way to go -- up!:teehee:


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## notyermomma

I'd put myself at about a .75. I have two weeks of food, maybe a week of water, three months of prescription meds. No defense other than my Fists of Fury ... but then, anyone who lives in this neighborhood knows that we don't have much worth defending anyway.


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## jeremiyah

*Andi said:


> You read right ... a generator indoors is a No, No.
> 
> A generator is great for when the power goes out for a short time ... but not for the long run. (Imo) Have you ever read a little house book.


If nobody mentioned it -bury or earth berm / cover a 55 gallon drum and run the exhaust through that as a muffler. Add baffles / another 20 or 5 gallon pail if need be to silence it further.


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## Jewel

Except for PMs and amount of rounds I'm beyond #5 but this has been a way of life for me for many years now.

However, if anyone asks I'm a #1 and will be knocking on their door when the day comes


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## Jewel

notyermomma said:


> I'd put myself at about a .75. I have two weeks of food, maybe a week of water, three months of prescription meds. No defense other than my Fists of Fury ... but then, anyone who lives in this neighborhood knows that we don't have much worth defending anyway.


Just that puts you way ahead of many people. 1 can if food is better than no cans  Just keep at it, You're doing good.


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## notyermomma

Thanks for the encouragement Jewel!

One thing I've discovered since I got started this spring is that because of my psychological makeup, I _have_ to do this extremely slowly. Otherwise I've found that I get really anxious and lose my sense of planning. I've made my peace with that for a few reasons:

It's far better for me financially anyway.

Moving slowly allows me to focus on the big picture so I can be thorough.

Being thorough and not bankrupting myself allows me to reframe it as a hobby, which makes it fun.

"Know Thyself" is the best preparation there is. When you know your strengths you can build on them. Weaknesses are nothing to apologize for, and when you know yours you can work around them.


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## *Andi

jeremiyah said:


> If nobody mentioned it -bury or earth berm / cover a 55 gallon drum and run the exhaust through that as a muffler. Add baffles / another 20 or 5 gallon pail if need be to silence it further.


Sorry but we are talking about a different style of folks ...


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## Cotton

The more you know, the less you need! Its one of my favorite quotes… because it’s so true regardless of any situation you may find yourself in.

I grew up on a farm in the 60’s, the child of generations of farmers… and all that entails as far as knowledge goes. Livestock, crops, we grew and ate what we needed and sold the rest.

Like so many I couldn’t wait to escape and did so for decades. Well, not exactly, I always kept things around that I didn’t even think of, prepared in a way. Tools in the truck, supplies for weather conditions and climate no matter where I lived, it was my nature.

Now, once again I live on the farm where I was born. Although I’ve added gear and equipment I’ve really spent the last 20 years relearning old things and learning new things.

These 5 levels are a good measuring stick for assets but that’s where it ends. It implies knowledge but I’ve met many “preppers” the last few years that have every gadget imaginable but have little knowledge. They couldn’t treat their child for pneumonia or heal a gun shot wound with common plants, couldn’t find water with a map or travel 20 miles without one, couldn’t hide in plain sight if their life depended on it.

I said the above not to discourage folks but to encourage them, especially those who place themselves with a low score. So what if you only have 5 gadgets and no water, DO you know how to use them in a blizzard or a heat wave? Can you find water and purify it with items scavenged from a vacant lot?

Real knowledge is born of experience. During the next blizzard or heat wave take your family on a 10 mile forced march! Use all your gadgets whether they will fit in you pocket or you need a cart! Someone who can use a pocket full of items in any situation is far more prepared than someone with barn full of gear they read a book about. Test yourself in extreme situations now!

If I changed my favorite quote it would be “The more you actually know and can do, the less you need! imho


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## weedygarden

HardCider said:


> I'm at the small town, dumb @$$ country boy stage. I think that's about a -2 to 0 level. I'm right plum out of gold cept for this here band on my hand and I ain't givin that up no matter how hard it gets. No land, no water, no food, no shelter, no guns, no ammo, nothing to see here folks, move along


I don't know if you are being sarcastic or if this is the truth. I tend to take people at their word, because I tend to be a person of my word. Making stuff up to get what a person wants has just never been in my make up. I tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.

I know there are many people who struggle to have enough. I know there are people who plead poverty and never have a pot to pi** in, due to bad decision making. I don't have cable, subscriptions to useless media stuff, the latest and greatest car, the newest furniture and appliances, a closet full of designer clothes. In a SHTF situation, NONE of that will matter, but it can sure eat up any resources someone might have. I have acquired some things in my life used and free, by shopping garage sales, thrift shops, alley shopping and Craigslist.

I believe that a creative and determined person, no matter the poverty level, can build up preps, if they have the mindset and will to do so. And I believe many will have all the excuses in the world not to, because they are not really interested, don't want to bother, or think someone else will take care of them, because it has always worked for them before.


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## mosquitomountainman

Cotton said:


> ... Real knowledge is born of experience. During the next blizzard or heat wave take your family on a 10 mile forced march! Use all your gadgets whether they will fit in you pocket or you need a cart! Someone who can use a pocket full of items in any situation is far more prepared than someone with barn full of gear they read a book about. Test yourself in extreme situations now!
> 
> If I changed my favorite quote it would be "The more you actually know and can do, the less you need! imho


I like most of what you said except for this part here. Be careful with tests when conditions are already life-threatening. Test your knowledge, gear and skills in the back yard and/or under good conditions first. That allows you to learn skills without putting your life in danger. You have a safety net in place. People with no experience in harsh, life-threatening situations are called victims ... and they are often packed out dead or seriously injured.

Knowledge can replace gear and at least help us make wiser choices in the gear we purchase and carry. Experience helps us sort out the essentials vs. the "fluff." For example, one person I know never carries cordage in his BOB. He is highly skilled and can make his own and intends to do so. Personally, I can make my own cordage too but in a life-threatening situation I'll save the time by reaching in my BOB for a roll of paracord I keep there. It weighs only a few ounces and I just saved myself a bunch of time making cordage that's inferior to begin with. Now, I can get to work on my shelter, water, or food supply instead of wasting time making something I should have had with me. If you can't afford paracord then make the cordage out of natural materials in advance and put the roll of it in your BOB. You'll be glad you did!

Most people who die in the wilderness die from exposure. For this reason I keep shelter building and fire-starting materials at the top of the pack. Just works best for me to prioritize things/packing according to the most likely need you'll have. Some cordage, a plastic tube tent or a couple of "space" blankets or even a sheet of plastic and a quick fire might make the difference between life or death in a survival situation.


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## Jewel

Cotton said:


> The more you know, the less you need! Its one of my favorite quotes&#8230; because it's so true regardless of any situation you may find yourself in.


Indeed! I've seen it first hand.


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## Alfred_E_Neuman

I like lists. If it were not for my To Do daily list, I very well likely would forget to eat or use the washroom.
But lists like this, well, they seem to try to apply a one size fits all.
Reading level 5, well, heck, we would all have to be millionaires to afford all that. 
Gold and silver? Secondary residence? That much livestock? 
I do what I can to get myself as self-sustainable as I can, but some or a lot of this is just unattainable for most.
I think knowing how to do things correctly is a better way then amassing a bunch of stuff.
Besides, knowledge is a lot more portable.


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## LincTex

Alfred_E_Neuman said:


> Gold and silver? Secondary residence? That much livestock?
> I do what I can to get myself as self-sustainable as I can, but some or a lot of this is just unattainable for most.


Everyone has to choose their own level they will be comfortable at.

I'm not going to build a fortress, but then again 99.999% of people never would, and never would need to either.

I think the biggest issue that faces many "new" preppers is what to spend their money on. Starting out with buying ONLY what is needed to get through a 3-day event is a good start. You can always build up from there!


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## mosquitomountainman

weedygarden said:


> ...*Level 5: Can Survive Indefinitely from Home during an multi-year SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation*
> Has a fully functioning large garden or small farm for food production
> Is able to can and store the results of food harvest for the coming year
> Is able to harvest seeds for next year's planting
> Is able to raise multiple generations of farm animals (cattle, sheep, horses)
> Has horses for local and distance travel
> Has enough ammo to last a generation (10,000+ rounds per weapon)
> Has spares of each weapon and lots of extra magazines
> Able to generate their own fuel (bio-diesel, alcohol)
> Likely has fully functional solar power bank with deep storage batteries
> Has natural on-site water sources for farm and home
> Has home-based business to generate income
> Is able to build new building and make any necessary repairs to existing buildings
> Is able to provide excess food for charity
> Has a secondary residency (such as mountain cabin) for full bug-out
> Is prepared for minor surgery and child birth at home
> Has stores of gold and silver for barter
> Is able to produce their clothing (from raw wool or raw cotton with spinning wheel and small loom)





Alfred_E_Neuman said:


> I like lists. If it were not for my To Do daily list, I very well likely would forget to eat or use the washroom.
> But lists like this, well, they seem to try to apply a one size fits all.
> Reading level 5, well, heck, we would all have to be millionaires to afford all that.
> Gold and silver? Secondary residence? That much livestock?
> I do what I can to get myself as self-sustainable as I can, but some or a lot of this is just unattainable for most.
> I think knowing how to do things correctly is a better way then amassing a bunch of stuff.
> Besides, knowledge is a lot more portable.


I'd dispute the necessity of some of the items on this list but I do believe that level five is attainable without being a millionaire. The key is to be able to survive indefinitely. Many items and/or the amounts of them are not necessary to long-term self-sufficiency. They'd be nice ... but not essential! Mankind has survived for thousands of years without electricity or modern transportation.


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## Alfred_E_Neuman

LincTex said:


> Everyone has to choose their own level they will be comfortable at.
> 
> I'm not going to build a fortress, but then again 99.999% of people never would, and never would need to either.
> 
> I think the biggest issue that faces many "new" preppers is what to spend their money on. Starting out with buying ONLY what is needed to get through a 3-day event is a good start. You can always build up from there!


LincTex, if you dont mind my saying it is mighty funny you mention fortress! My house is a old farm house built in the mid 1800s. It is field stone! Walls about 3 feet thick!

Good point about what to spend money on for those new to the idea of prepping. I can see some things, water filtration system of some sort, a good sleeping bag, quality hand tools and the like.
I also think some formal training might be money better spent like first aid classes, and especially firearms training. Seen too many people out there spend a lot of money on one of those black rifles and no idea how to use one.


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## Alfred_E_Neuman

mosquitomountainman said:


> I'd dispute the necessity of some of the items on this list but I do believe that level five is attainable without being a millionaire. The key is to be able to survive indefinitely. Many items and/or the amounts of them are not necessary to long-term self-sufficiency. They'd be nice ... but not essential! Mankind has survived for thousands of years without electricity or modern transportation.


Thank you sir for mentioning electricity! I noticed the number of times power generation makes the lists. 
My Amish neighbors dont have any electricity and they seem to be doing just fine! I might even say better then some of us English!


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## LincTex

Alfred_E_Neuman said:


> Thank you sir for mentioning electricity! I noticed the number of times power generation makes the lists. My Amish neighbors dont have any electricity and they seem to be doing just fine!!


Actually, the Amish, by per capita %, use more solar power electricity than any other specific group in the United States.

One good deep cycle 12 volt battery, 60-80 watts of solar panel, several small 12volt DC LED floodlights, and a small inverter will get you out of "the dark ages" for about $100 or so. I don't see any reason to not at least have electric LED lighting and a little bit of A/C power when it can be had so inexpensively. 
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-208-a-23287/


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## weedygarden

I am revisiting this post to do an update.


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## DrPrepper

Weedygarden,
I'm glad you did revisit, because it brought the thread to my attention. I read through all of the entries, and found it SO reassuring that everyone here is not at level 5- or even a 3 or 4! 

I agree with many that it is not so much the STUFF as the SKILLS that are important. I am one of those OCD type people that likes to be hyper organized, and so I have a bunch of lists of supplies I have, things I need, stuff I can do, stuff I need to refresh on, and new skills I need to learn (thank goodness for Excel spreadsheets!) I know very little about raising animals, for example, and so I've been learning from my neighbors who raise chickens. Medical procedures, on the other hand, are easy, and so I just need to focus on making sure I have the supplies I need to provide the anticipated types of care. 

I'm not sure that everything on the Level 5 list is really necessary - guess it just depends on how you want to live after the SHTF! I find myself trying to do things the "old-fashioned" way without power just for practice and to see how I can build my skills. When you think about all of the things we will need to be able to do, it can be pretty mind boggling. Practice now will make it easier later when we are playing for real!


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## Caribou

Thanks for bringing this back.

I love lists. I use lists as a guideline. I use list to compare others ideas to my own and weigh my level of accomplishment. ultimately the only list that really is important is my own as nobody has needs and preferences exactly like mine.

I'm a good solid one with a smattering of every other level. If I ever get to a full level five I'll be trying to figure out what level six is. Prepping, for me, is not a destination but a journey.


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## weedygarden

I have this in one of my 3 - ring binders, but I wanted to visit it here to see what my next goals will be and where I am lacking. I know exactly what deficits I have now and I need to get them done to move up a level and improve my preparedness.

The price of gasoline is up a little from the low we had recently, so I know that is something to consider stocking more of, except, someone recently said the new gas is not as stable.


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## weedygarden

DrDianaAnderson said:


> Weedygarden,
> I'm glad you did revisit, because it brought the thread to my attention. I read through all of the entries, and found it SO reassuring that everyone here is not at level 5- or even a 3 or 4!
> 
> I agree with many that it is not so much the STUFF as the SKILLS that are important. I am one of those OCD type people that likes to be hyper organized, and so I have a bunch of lists of supplies I have, things I need, stuff I can do, stuff I need to refresh on, and new skills I need to learn (thank goodness for Excel spreadsheets!) I know very little about raising animals, for example, and so I've been learning from my neighbors who raise chickens. Medical procedures, on the other hand, are easy, and so I just need to focus on making sure I have the supplies I need to provide the anticipated types of care.
> 
> I'm not sure that everything on the Level 5 list is really necessary - guess it just depends on how you want to live after the SHTF! I find myself trying to do things the "old-fashioned" way without power just for practice and to see how I can build my skills. When you think about all of the things we will need to be able to do, it can be pretty mind boggling. Practice now will make it easier later when we are playing for real!


I have thought that if we were able to be a part of a group, each of us could have a few specialties or areas that we focus on. It would not mean that there would be only one gardener or chicken care taker, but that each of us could do as we do in life now, have the things we are better at, while others would focus more on the things they are better at, and many things which require more general work, many could participate in. In that type of situation, you could give health care to those in need, while also participating in other necessitites. The other possibilities in a true SHTF situation may be cooking, grinding grains, farming and gardening, animal care and maintenance, out building care and maintenance, cleaning, building repair and maintenance, gathering and chopping wood, clothing maintenance and repair, laundry, lamp maintenance, mechanical repair and maintenance, inventories, canning and food storage chores, childcare, education, yard and land maintenance. Many factors would come into play, depending upon the size of a group and the skills that are present. I know there are more.


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