# Body Armor concealable or tactical?



## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

So I have read most of the discussions on here lately and I naturally got to looking at stuff. Even as I type this I know it is like asking what is your favorite color. Anyway here goes. Would you perfer concealabe or tactical body armor and why? BTW if this has been asked already please point it out I did a search before posting and came up empty.

If I had the extra money I am thinking I would get a level II concealable vest if things were just moderately bad. Something like this http://bulletproofme.com/ProMAX-Concealable-PHOTOS.htm

I remember the guy from Argentina saying it was less obvious when going to work and such, during thier economic collapse.

If things were totally SHTF then I would add a ballistic plate carrier, like this with AR500 plates. http://bulletproofme.com/Photos/Rifle_Plates_Carriers_PHOTOS.shtml

The links are photos from Bulletproofme.com for those of you who don't like to click on unknown links.

Having the versatility would be more expensive, but I think for me this would be the answer. I could get the minimum protection and upgrade from there. I have never served or been a LEO so I am asking what do you all think?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Thanks, I lost this link when my last computer crashed.

Anything is better than nothing. Your plan to start out with a concealable vest and then add to the system as finances allow sounds like a good plan. This will give you a flexible system that would work in multiple situations.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Concealable means the first few shots could be at your torso instead of your head. Obviously visible means a smart shooter would go for a non armored area like your head or face instead.

So, I would think concealable could buy you a bit of time to try and extricate yourself from the situation.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Keep in mind that anything less than full level III (to include IIIA) will ONLY stop handgun bullets.
And level III is only good against some rifle rounds not most...

in a peaceful society like now with rule of law and social sanction to not running around openly armed, handguns will be the primary threat and Level II , IIA and IIIA vests may have a lot of utility..

But in a WROL/SHTF situation when the social sanction to being openly armed is no longer dominant and there is conflict. one must deduce that the majority of threats will be from longguns and so any armor below level III will be essentially useless.

For this reason the philosophy of use in a SHTF/WROL/TETOWAWKI situation that makes sense should be to with either go with no armor at all to preserve your agility, OR to wear Level IV plates.
Anything in between will still lessen agility while giving me no benefit against the primary threat.

level IV plates is something I might then wear, but primarily when I am a) vehicle borne or b) in a static defense situation or c) when contact is expected to be imminent. In those cases the loss of agility would either not matter much as in a) and b) or the protection would offset the burden as in c)


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

First I would recommend going with a concealed vest for when things get bad but haven't really gotten extremely bad. For instance in that time leading up to the collapse it will be very bad but it won't be bad enough to wear a plate carrier.

Now Plate Carriers, I personally chose not to go with a AR500, because I was worried about Spaulding. Look for a good plate carrier, the one I picked up was in the $2-400 range. Then look at good Level 4 SAPI plates, get used to not breathing as much as your used to and a lot of weight added to you very fast. yes you can Hump that much weight, no it is not enjoyable. As far as color for it I went with Coyote Brown. Once you start down the path of having Body Armor be prepared to spend a lot of money. But Body Armor if you choose to get it isn't something to skimp on.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks for the replies. It is just on my wish list for now. The AR500 plates I was looking at have some sort of rubber coating to address the spaulding issue.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

jnrdesertrats said:


> Thanks for the replies. It is just on my wish list for now. The AR500 plates I was looking at have some sort of rubber coating to address the spaulding issue.


Do not coat your plates! Chemicals will cause them to fail and/or break down much faster.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Cabowabo said:


> get used to not breathing as much as your used to and a lot of weight added to you very fast. .


This is a great point. To illustrate that:

My department is in the process of revamping the fitness requirements to qualify for our mountain bike unit. Using six officers as a baseline, we have run the new test in various combinations of athletic gear, duty gear, and duty uniform without belt and vest. We have all passed the old test, so we are all in decent shape. It involves a four hundred meter sprint in foot, a 3.1-mile sprint on the bike, and a 100-meter run while carrying the bike, ending with loading it on a rack on the back of a police vehicle. This has to be completed in under 14.5 minutes.

The times for each officer completing it in either athletic gear or duty gear are fairly close. However, with the added weight and constricted breathing of the vest and belt, we are seeing an increase of about 1.5 minutes per officer.

The limited ability to fully expand your lungs is definitely something which takes a little time to get used to, and never fully levels out.

Now, with all of that said...

The exterior "tactical" vest carrier is FAR more comfortable to wear for long periods of time. It can also be adjusted a bit so that it is not strapped down tightly to your torso.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Anyone know anything about these? http://dkxarmor.com/#page-about-dkx-solutions

their level 3 plates come in at 2.9 lbs, and they float. This is the only data point Ive found on them so far, video of shooting various DKX plates with various calibers. 





Also, what are some other good level 3 plates and plate carries?

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread, this stuff seems to fit here though..


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

Turtle said:


> Do not coat your plates! Chemicals will cause them to fail and/or break down much faster.


I had no intention of coating them myself this company sells them coated. I hope the know what they are doing. http://www.ar500armor.com/line-x-protective-base-coating.html

Fat Tire to answer your question I was looking at this site mentioned in another thread. http://www.ar500armor.com/ The quality seems comparable and the prices a little better than some other sites I have seen. I think Sentry18 origionally posted this site, maybe he has experience with them. :dunno:


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Here is the thing. 
Lets add weight the main difference between level 4 SAPI ceramic plates and the AR-500 is roughly 2 pounds based off the medium plate choice. Now add the weight of your AR-15, plus 7 mags for a combat load. Add a side arm plus a few more mags. Add water weight because you'll need 2-3 forms of water carrying. Add in a knife, radio, first aid kit, cleaning kit, plus anything else the mission requires. And if your facing the possibility of shrapnel your going to want a Kevlar helmet which is very uncomfortable, and will add weight. 
Body Armor is expensive, I spent over $200 for my plate carrier at my gfs house. I'll probably spend another $4-600 for plates, and I haven't even thought about a kevlar brain bucket. That being said I'm using level 4 SAPI plates, and a quality plate carrier. 
Body Armor is an equation, the more protection you have the less mobility you have, the more it cost. Body Armor even the soft hide under the shirt body armor when its hot outside will suck in the sweat and you'll hate wearing it. The hard body armor will cause you to sweat more, be tough to breath in, and will add a lot of weight. 

OUNCES EQUAL POUNDS, POUNDS EQUAL PAIN.

I was working a gate a while ago, when I went to a restroom. I dropped my plate carrier with my ammo, radio, and first aid kit on the ground when I came back I asked the Koreans I was working with if they wanted to see how heavy it was. They said ohhh its heavy, it didn't even have plates in it. I wasn't carrying any water on my plate carrier at that time either. 

If you want my advice if your worried about things getting dangerous and don't want to wear a plate carrier with plates then go with a Kevlar vest like the police wear and yes you can find them as a civilian. Now when things get Patriot/Mad Max crazy then you want to step it up to the hard body armor.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Here is the thing*

Wearing ballistic armor in a disaster or post collapse situation is just going to advertise that you have something someone else wants.

Looking like everyone else is less likely to make you a target.

It is better not to be a target at all, than to be a bullet proof target !


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## Plainsman (Nov 29, 2013)

BillM said:


> Wearing ballistic armor in a disaster or post collapse situation is just going to advertise that you have something someone else wants.
> 
> Looking like everyone else is less likely to make you a target.
> 
> It is better not to be a target at all, than to be a bullet proof target !


I agree, being a forgettable 'gray man' is the way to go, post-collapse. However, I'm going to be a 'gray man' with ballistic armor under my shabby clothes. I have a U.S. Palm 'Slick'...level III-A ballistic vest. Marketed for civilians, about $300 for a 2 panel rig, it doesn't have side protection and leaves one's abdomen and lower back exposed, but any armor is better than none.

Got a question: Sportsman's Guide had used BATF, level III-A vests on sale for about $100, a year or so ago....I couldn't resist and got one. It was manufactured by U.S. Armor Corporation in 1996, doesn't seem to have absorbed any bullet impacts than I can tell and the only signs of obvious wear are slightly stretched elastic. S.G. sold it with a disclaimer that it was intended for collector status. Anybody know how effective 17 yr. old kevlar is?


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I have*



Plainsman said:


> I agree, being a forgettable 'gray man' is the way to go, post-collapse. However, I'm going to be a 'gray man' with ballistic armor under my shabby clothes. I have a U.S. Palm 'Slick'...level III-A ballistic vest. Marketed for civilians, about $300 for a 2 panel rig, it doesn't have side protection and leaves one's abdomen and lower back exposed, but any armor is better than none.
> 
> Got a question: Sportsman's Guide had used BATF, level III-A vests on sale for about $100, a year or so ago....I couldn't resist and got one. It was manufactured by U.S. Armor Corporation in 1996, doesn't seem to have absorbed any bullet impacts than I can tell and the only signs of obvious wear are slightly stretched elastic. S.G. sold it with a disclaimer that it was intended for collector status. Anybody know how effective 17 yr. old kevlar is?


I have 20 year old Kelvar ballistic armor. I haven't thrown it away.


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