# Advice about situation needed



## mdmdmd (Apr 21, 2011)

Hey you all, I would love some advice about this and wasn't sure where else to place this. We live in suburbia fairly close to two major urban centers (within 30 miles) and are mainly prepping-in-place. However, my in-laws have a farm in a much more rural area and they are prepping for a longer SHTF scenario- their capability to be self- sustaining is much, much higher than ours. They live almost 4 1/2 hours from us by car, with no traffic. DH doesn't think that there is any urgent reason for us to move our whole family there yet for many reasons (I agree that it would be very difficult). So, I have been a little schizophrenic in my prepping- I'm mainly prepping where we are, so could deal with a shorter term SHTF issue; but am helping with the preps at the farm, also. Has anyone else had a similar situation? If we needed to get to the farm quickly, we don't have a way of getting all of our preps over there anyway (have 2 big SUVs with carriers, but no trailers, etc). I'm not sure if it is even realistic to think that we could even get there if something really started happening. Should we invest in a trailer for preps? Should we just give up the idea of even trying to get to the farm (which would put us in big trouble in a long-term SHTF scenario)? What ya think? It would be really hard to give up DHs incredible job (especially in this economy), our circle of friends, our kids' amazing school, etc., for just a possibility.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Sounds perfectly reasonable to store some long term preps at your parents & short term stuff at your house. You just need to be clear with your dh under what circumstances you would head for your parents house (early into a situations) & have various routes mapped out in advance (avoiding main roads). JMHO


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I'm guessing that you are between DC and Baltimore and they are in Western MD near Frederick or something. I think I'd do two things in your situation....1) I'd leave a good portion at the in-laws 2) I would figure out and try several ALTERNATE routes. If disaster strikes, 270 is going to be a nightmare. It will be gridlock. Remember 9/11? Remember the gridlock that engulfed MD and VA as people tried to flee? I would map out the routes ahead of time. I would also have physical paper maps in the car so you don't have to depend on GPS. AND I would have a plan in place in case you and your hubby can not bug out at the same time...in case you have to take the kids and leave without him.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

That is a tough situation. Our situation is similar, only in our case my husband and I are the BOL in a remote area, and our kids are 1/2 an hour to 2 hours' drive from us. 

Our kids have the same dilema of how much to store here and how much to store where they are. They have the same reasons: in a short term situation they'll bug-in, and a long-term one they'll come here. The hard thing will be knowing which it is and deciding when it's time to bug-out.

Lay plans with alternate options. If you're planning to bug out to the inlaws', have maps for different routes. Try to make some caches of supplies along the way, even just a couple watertight/airtight buckets of calorie-dense food and other supplies buried in a place where you can note landmarks to find them again. Put these along different routes.

Plan for other ways to get there. The idea of walking or riding a bicycle might seem overwhelming, but if your lives depend on it, at least it gets you out of the danger zone. It gives you options to follow roads but to stay off the road and out of site as you travel. Again, you can only plan for the possibilities, then when something happens you pick which solution fits the scenario.

Meanwhile, I'd keep storing preps in both places. It's just not possible to know for sure what, when, or if things will happen. If something major seems imminent, you might consider bugging out ahead of your husband, or have him take vacation time (or personal days) and 'visit' the inlaws. 

And like kejmack (whose advice is very similar to mine) said, use paper maps, not the GPS.


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## mdmdmd (Apr 21, 2011)

Thanks for the quick answers. I have mapped out several alternative routes, although we are in a geographically hemmed-in area so there aren't many options to getting out of here- pretty much all involve a bridge, tunnel, or getting too close to cities. However, I do have paper maps with several different routes, trying to stay off highways as much as possible. I'm not working outside the house, so I've already decided I'll pack up the kids and go at the slightest whiff of uncertainty, leaving dh to come at a later time. What do you all think about investing in some type of trailer? We do have some disposable income and have a friend close-by that would probably be willing to store it, but don't know if that is the best thing to put money into. I've even thought about getting a crossover motorycle for my dh, but that requires a special license and a good bit of $$ for something he probably would never use. Anyway, I appreciate the thoughts!


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Hum...a lot to think about because you know that you would want to be with your parents should something happen, no doubt about that!

Yes, slightest whiff of anything happening, you get out with the kids. I would prepare bug out bags for a week should it possible take you that long to get there via vehicle. Just saying... Almost I think that I would store most of my preps at parents home. 

You have SUVs, what about one of those basket things that goes on top? You can load that thing down with lots of stuff. 

Since you know more than likely you would be leaving first and with kids, of course, get hubby together a bag to keep with him at work, etc to get him to your parents as well..I do think a dirt bike would be a good idea for him!

Keep your vehicle filled with gas at all times. I, personally, do not want a trailer if I am bugging out alone, I'd not want the attention that might draw.

Also, you might want to get a location that you might could meet hubby should something happen that way you wouldn't be alone the whole trip.

Just some thoughts.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

mdmdmd said:


> Hey you all, I would love some advice about this and wasn't sure where else to place this. We live in suburbia fairly close to two major urban centers (within 30 miles) and are mainly prepping-in-place. However, my in-laws have a farm in a much more rural area and they are prepping for a longer SHTF scenario- their capability to be self- sustaining is much, much higher than ours. They live almost 4 1/2 hours from us by car, with no traffic. DH doesn't think that there is any urgent reason for us to move our whole family there yet for many reasons (I agree that it would be very difficult). So, I have been a little schizophrenic in my prepping- I'm mainly prepping where we are, so could deal with a shorter term SHTF issue; but am helping with the preps at the farm, also. Has anyone else had a similar situation? If we needed to get to the farm quickly, we don't have a way of getting all of our preps over there anyway (have 2 big SUVs with carriers, but no trailers, etc). I'm not sure if it is even realistic to think that we could even get there if something really started happening. Should we invest in a trailer for preps? Should we just give up the idea of even trying to get to the farm (which would put us in big trouble in a long-term SHTF scenario)? What ya think? It would be really hard to give up DHs incredible job (especially in this economy), our circle of friends, our kids' amazing school, etc., for just a possibility.


 And while you're on the way to the farm with a couple gas guzzeling SUVs loaded to the hilt, there is going to be thousands of other loaded SUVs on the same Rd.everyone has alternate rts, You have 3 choices, leave 2 days before anyone because even the 2 lane rd will be parking lots with accident, people out of gas cars broke down ect.

or better think about traveling light in an Ultralight plane,

the other option is stay put til the dust settles til people find out that they're on their own and have to steal food to survive, you could make a run for it with guns blazzing..


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## UrbanMan (Feb 23, 2011)

mdmdmd, you are getting good advice on the previous replies. Not sure about the Ultralight........

Pre-position supplies at the farm; caches emplaced enroute; multiple routes - we call it PACE planning for Primary, Alternate, Contingency and Emergency - a good acronym to use in all elements and phases of planning;

The shortest route in distance is not always the shortest route for time. Not to mention security/safety and ease of travel.

I too have an alike scenario. I plan on staying at my suburban home as a Bug In location, but realize I don't have a lot of control over the threat streams that would affect us. My BOL is about 110 miles away. I have eight families planning on an RV at my home, not counting straphangers. We are planning for two types of Bug Out scenarios: One - Hasty, where we rapidly evacuate, and Two, Deliberate where we can better plan load lists based on available transportation and fuel, and the material we are talking with us.

All of us keep empty containers for fuel and upon the first hint of collapse indicators, we would fill them up giving us better options for range, and to fuel up vehicle who made it to the RV low on fuel. Keeping the fuel cans filled requires safe handling, a fuel stabilizer, and the discipline to fuel up and use that fuel before it goes bad. To this day I require all the motor vehicle operators in my family to never go below half a tank - also makes it more palatable on the debit card with today's fuel prices! 

Your idea of having a staged Bug Out where you and the kids go first, followed by DH is another possible solution. I myself would bounce that off the risks of spreading my "combat power". Would be great if you had comms between you and DH if it comes to this.

Absolutely paper maps as opposed to a GPS. Maps are more important to me than a GPS and Compass combined. Until you are very proficient in land navigation (terrain orientation) a GPS and compass would come in handy for dead reckoning. I have some map reading and land navigation information on my site you can access. Urban Survival Skills, Survival Equipment, Survival Planning and Preparation
I would consider some sort of Bug Out rehearsal, maybe even just hiking as a family outing, at least on most confusing part of your route, if you have to hoof it on foot to get to the farm. Identifying hide sites/holeup sites enroute to the farm is a good idea also. Vehicle camouflage netting or maybe just some Canvas or tarps would make it easier to conceal your vehicle during any holeups if you could not make the trip in one period of driving.

Lastly, consider coordinating with your In-Laws some visual signals from your end on approaching the farm, and on their end showing that it is safe to approach. This may help minimize risks to becoming a friendly fire casualty and walking in on the farm occupied by bad people with evil plans.

be good and stay safe,

cheers
UrbanMan


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

lotsoflead said:


> And while you're on the way to the farm with a couple gas guzzeling SUVs loaded to the hilt, there is going to be thousands of other loaded SUVs on the same Rd.


All this assumes your BOV is not off road capable. In a real situation I'd consider the road to be optional. Not to say head off cross country through a forest... but staying on the road in your lane should not necessarily be a concern either. Medians, sidewalks, yards, fences... drive carefully but you should be able to get over/through all of those with any reasonably capable vehicle. Sure bridges might be a bottleneck but if you have enough clearance you could possibly use railroad bridges as I doubt they'll have traffic on them.

Think creatively when coming up with your alternate routes and consider the capabilities of your vehicle.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Any chance of going by boat?


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

mdmdmd said:


> Hey you all, I would love some advice about this and wasn't sure where else to place this. We live in suburbia fairly close to two major urban centers (within 30 miles) and are mainly prepping-in-place. However, my in-laws have a farm in a much more rural area and they are prepping for a longer SHTF scenario- their capability to be self- sustaining is much, much higher than ours. They live almost 4 1/2 hours from us by car, with no traffic. DH doesn't think that there is any urgent reason for us to move our whole family there yet for many reasons (I agree that it would be very difficult). So, I have been a little schizophrenic in my prepping- I'm mainly prepping where we are, so could deal with a shorter term SHTF issue; but am helping with the preps at the farm, also. Has anyone else had a similar situation? If we needed to get to the farm quickly, we don't have a way of getting all of our preps over there anyway (have 2 big SUVs with carriers, but no trailers, etc). I'm not sure if it is even realistic to think that we could even get there if something really started happening. Should we invest in a trailer for preps? Should we just give up the idea of even trying to get to the farm (which would put us in big trouble in a long-term SHTF scenario)? What ya think? It would be really hard to give up DHs incredible job (especially in this economy), our circle of friends, our kids' amazing school, etc., for just a possibility.


wow mdmdmd i have lived close to where your are (about an hour north)
and i have to say that if the sh*t ever hits the fan that would be the last place i would wish to be. when the people who are used to getting their check from the nanny state don't ,they mite burn Baltimore to the ground.

I think it comes down to what is important to you
if a nice new house & 2 big suv's are your thing then hey rock on with that.

however if you sold out & OWNED a small place yes i said "owned" a place free & clear in western MD,if you didn't have payments on 2 new suv"s because you paid cash for a couple of used cheep on gas rigs
how much money would you really have to make ?

It took me 3 years of planning to get out of Newark De.
it mite take you that long too but i got out & even though i make less money now my quality of life is 10 times better.......

good luck
piglett
wolfeboro, new hampshire 
pop. 5500+/-:2thumb:


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## phliesweb (May 20, 2011)

Good stuff! I love the the ideas everybody. 
A meeting point where you can plan to get together if all all possible is key!
I don't know your children's ages but if they are old enough to understand have them rehearse your bug out plan or least teach them that you have a plan to get them in the case of trouble. If they are in school, say...Tell them to stay put or tell them to go to the nearest trusted safe place for immediate pick up. You got all possible routes figured out. so, your good there. As others here have mentioned the roads can become parking lots quickly. 
If the kids are very young God bless you! Get to them with all haste. 
Because theres the both of you depending on one or the other to retrieve the children you should try to communicate as much as possible, if possible to be sure if one or the other still has the capability to get to them. otherwise meet up as near to them as possible reducing you chances of missing one another.
Consider two choices if it makes it easier. (Choice one.) Stay, deal, and adapt. Plan for a senerio at home where you are now. prep with everything you'll need for the here and now deal. Try to ride it out. First chance you think it safe to travel pack what you got and get to your In-Laws. Plan for gas shortages. The space required to hold the amount of gas you'll need to reach your folks. The dirt bike idea is great. Quads are my personal choice if you want to carry more. Get yourself a couple of quads with utility racks front and back. Good on gas. carry a small stockpile of food and supplies very easily. They are fast in times of need, many of them float enough to traverse mild water conditions, (install a snorkle kit) and they're all terrain capabile. They now even have power inverter kits you can fashion to these things for some mobile power basically turning your machine into a rolling gennie. that said..
Think of things in this order:
1.Kids & Family
2.Security
3.Food & water
4.Portable Shelter & Communications/LongTerm Shelter & Communications
5.Viable Transportation
To some the order is debatable thats ok. Lets get you to your family.
(Choice two) Start shipping things to the In-Laws now get all of everything there ready for your arrival. Keep a small store of a few weeks provisions to get you where you need to be. Plan for immediate evac as soon as you and the possy are together. Realistically this would be tough in most Bovs even if the roads are opperable and not completely overrun with panicking people. Plan for the off road trip. It may be what you'll have to do. In any case expect a overly extended time to arive at your destonation. Good luck in your prep. and thanx everybody I'm taking all your advice too.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

piglett said:


> how much money would you really have to make ?
> 
> It took me 3 years of planning to get out of Newark De.
> it mite take you that long too but i got out & even though i make less money now my quality of life is 10 times better...


pretty much what we've done here also...

for paranoia purposes we have multiple notarized copies of all ownership papers (one set laminated)


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## phliesweb (May 20, 2011)

I was pretty good at selling test answers in school too. Then found the U.S. FM 21-76 Surval, Evasion and Escape Manual. When I was 15 That was a cool book.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

mdmdmd said:


> Hey you all, I would love some advice about this and wasn't sure where else to place this. We live in suburbia fairly close to two major urban centers (within 30 miles) and are mainly prepping-in-place. However, my in-laws have a farm in a much more rural area and they are prepping for a longer SHTF scenario- their capability to be self- sustaining is much, much higher than ours. They live almost 4 1/2 hours from us by car, with no traffic. DH doesn't think that there is any urgent reason for us to move our whole family there yet for many reasons (I agree that it would be very difficult). So, I have been a little schizophrenic in my prepping- I'm mainly prepping where we are, so could deal with a shorter term SHTF issue; but am helping with the preps at the farm, also. Has anyone else had a similar situation? If we needed to get to the farm quickly, we don't have a way of getting all of our preps over there anyway (have 2 big SUVs with carriers, but no trailers, etc). I'm not sure if it is even realistic to think that we could even get there if something really started happening. Should we invest in a trailer for preps? Should we just give up the idea of even trying to get to the farm (which would put us in big trouble in a long-term SHTF scenario)? What ya think? It would be really hard to give up DHs incredible job (especially in this economy), our circle of friends, our kids' amazing school, etc., for just a possibility.


We have a couple threads on how to plan for bugging out (aka: evacuation). The rules on bugging-out are simple, from your primary location figure out a 2hr drive in all directions and that is BOL #1. The reason for the 2hr drive is that works out to be a half-tank of fuel for most vehicles - it is the PONR (Point Of No Return).

From BOL #1 you will want to map-out a second BOL that is again a half-tank of fuel.

From what you are telling us of your location vs your parent's location, you will want to own a BOL at the half-way point - call it a hunting camp for lack of better term. At that location, have fuel (propane, gas, etc), cooking appliances, spare clothing and a hidden cache of supplies. You can decide to leave that location for BOL #2 if / when the supplies are all used up.


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## mdmdmd (Apr 21, 2011)

OK, lots to think about. Mosquitomountainman, I have thought about a boat- it would be the quickest way out of here for sure, but the in-laws are about 120 miles inland, so unless I kept a vehicle close to the water somewhere I don't know how much it would help (in-laws are actually in southern Virginia). I'm going to do a more detailed analysis with paper maps-- good advice everyone! I appreciate the responses and the help. BTW, we have 4 small kids (ages 5-11) so that complicates things a touch.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

phliesweb said:


> I was pretty good at selling test answers in school too. Then found the U.S. FM 21-76 Surval, Evasion and Escape Manual. When I was 15 That was a cool book.


what is your point ???????:dunno:


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> And while you're on the way to the farm with a couple gas guzzeling SUVs loaded to the hilt, there is going to be thousands of other loaded SUVs on the same Rd.everyone has alternate rts, You have 3 choices, leave 2 days before anyone because even the 2 lane rd will be parking lots with accident, people out of gas cars broke down ect.
> 
> or better think about traveling light in an Ultralight plane,
> 
> the other option is stay put til the dust settles til people find out that they're on their own and have to steal food to survive, you could make a run for it with guns blazzing..


maybe a gas guzzling SUV is all they have ya know? Have to work with what you got....

PLANE? Come on really? Are you serious? :dunno:


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

An ultralight is a viable option but better for a person alone. I've heard at least two other people discussing it as an option for a bug-out vehicle. Plus, one of Jerry's fiction stories here on this forum uses ultralights for not only moving to a better location after a major disaster, they also subsequently transported medical supplies into an area no one else could have gotten to as quickly.

If you have time for a little fiction, it's a good story:
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f55/jdy-fiction-ultra-light-vignette-2703/


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## woodsman23 (Aug 6, 2009)

Pardon My ignorance but what does DH mean :dunno:


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

mdmdmd said:


> Thanks for the quick answers. I have mapped out several alternative routes, although we are in a geographically hemmed-in area so there aren't many options to getting out of here- pretty much all involve a bridge, tunnel, or getting too close to cities. However, I do have paper maps with several different routes, trying to stay off highways as much as possible. I'm not working outside the house, so I've already decided I'll pack up the kids and go at the slightest whiff of uncertainty, leaving dh to come at a later time. What do you all think about investing in some type of trailer? We do have some disposable income and have a friend close-by that would probably be willing to store it, but don't know if that is the best thing to put money into. I've even thought about getting a crossover motorycle for my dh, but that requires a special license and a good bit of $$ for something he probably would never use. Anyway, I appreciate the thoughts!


If your considering buying a BO trailer. Think about finding one made from a truck. You may have seen where someone has used the bed and frame to make a trailer. Advantages are you can get a shell for the top to keep your stuff dry. You can keep the existing fuel tank from the truck and use it for extended fuel capacity even better if duel tanks were an option. 
Does your husband know how to ride a bike already?
i have a duel sport bike. Its a Honda 650R. With a factory tank my range was only about 95 miles. Most are comperable. You can get larger aftermarket tanks that would give him enough range. If he will only use it as a bug out bike, you options are increased. You wont need a license in a time like that, Way too many other things going on to worry about if someone has a license or not. No need to tag and insure it for the same reasons. If your going to buy now is a great time. Lots of bikes on Craigs list and Ebay. There are folks hurting for money and a offroad bike is usually one of the first things to go. 
my 3.7 cents.
BTW I am pretty familier with the area from Richmond south and east to the coast. Can you give a bit more idea as to where your inlaws live?


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

woodsman23 said:


> Pardon My ignorance but what does DH mean :dunno:


Dear/Dang Husband
""" Wife

Depending on how the day is going...


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Take to your parents what you really don't need now......later on all that you have to take is your guns and dogs.....upsssss almost forgot, don't forget the wife and kids :beercheer:


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I like the boat idea for this part of the country. Just head for florida or into the caribbean. Plenty of seafood to catch and eat. The boat would be its own enclosed living space with renewable power and maybe a desalienator for water. There wouldn't be many zombies after you and most people you would meet are quite resourceful. sail


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## mdmdmd (Apr 21, 2011)

JustCliff said:


> BTW I am pretty familier with the area from Richmond south and east to the coast. Can you give a bit more idea as to where your inlaws live?


My inlaws live in the Lynchburg area.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

sailaway said:


> I like the boat idea for this part of the country. Just head for florida or into the caribbean. Plenty of seafood to catch and eat. The boat would be its own enclosed living space with renewable power and maybe a desalienator for water. There wouldn't be many zombies after you and most people you would meet are quite resourceful. sail


Makes me wistful to think of. I love being out on the water.

You could trade seafish for land-based foods.

A boat on the river here would be an exellent idea for our kids to use to bug-out to our place except that the current goes the wrong direction and it's quite a strong current! It would have to be a small boat with a shallow draft.

No matter what the bug-out plan is: road, water, air, or other, and no matter what kind of transportation is planned (vehicle, bicycle, dirt bike, feet, boat, ultralight or other aircraft, it's a good idea to travel the route and test the means of travel. Testing it out reduces the unexpected, and it's nice to do that before your life depends on it.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

mdmdmd said:


> My inlaws live in the Lynchburg area.


I undersatand your dilema a bit more now. I would definitly have most of my supplies at the in-laws. i dont envy you a hot bug out. Thats a lot of urban sprawl to have to get through.

A northwest to South route will take you into the mountains. Pretty familiar with that. I have a house in Strausburg near Winchester. Get too involved in those roads you will be slowed down a good deal and if you have to detour, it's gonna be a long one. A south and west route has a lot of bridges. I don't like bridges for a BO route. They are a security risk and are a bottle neck for traffic if someone else breaks down or wrecks.
I would look at a short South, west, southwest route. Once you get past Fredricksburg you should be fine. 
The kids are an issue all to themselves. You're going to need to keep their minds occupied while you are in a stressed state while driving. Have plenty to eat and drink and things for them to do. If you pack a bunch of stuff in your car, your kids will be very close together. And kids will be kids when cramped up. Not what you need at a time like that. I wish you luck if you ever have to bug out.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think it would make sense to monitor current economic conditions. If things get bad enough you could rent trailers and move to the farm. I expect hyperinflation. It'll start slow and go faster and faster. The price of gas has stabilized but if gas rapidly goes from $4 a gallon to $5 and keeps going up I'd start moving. This year's harvests around the world look like they're going to be worse than normal. If you can afford to stock up on food now I'd do that.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

Store the majority of your food at the farm.. just keep enough for 3 or so weeks. Move some clothes there as well.. just a few boxes of really well made stuff.. like LLbean or some good brand. They may have to do you for a long time. Dont forget a box with boots and shoes too. Socks and extra winter clothes


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Have each of your kids pack a "transition bucket", with food treats, books or toys they like, a little flashlight in their favorite color, any little trinket you or they can think of. Mark their name on the outside of the bucket with a permanant marker, snap the lid on, and store at the grandparents' place with your supplies. It'll ease some of the trauma when they see the familiar things they packed, and munch on candy or snacks they like. Maybe even put in a favorite t-shirt (change these things out as they age, if nothing happens) or fuzzy slippers, or anything that makes them feel like they didn't leave everything behind. Comforting things.


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