# Stealth Garden



## SewingMachine

Well, my wife started 50 tomato plants. We garden at a community garden, in a 20 x 20 plot. Obviously, those tomato plants aren't going to fit.

I have a rain day off work today, I am going to head into the conservancy next door 
https://parks-lwrd.countyofdane.com/park/PheasantBranchCreekConservancy

and start a stealth garden. I am in there all the time, and no one goes where I will be. If you look at the picture on the front page of the link, what looks like grass/fields along the spring creek, is actually cat tails and a lot of sawgrass. There are a ton of crab apples on the left side, where there is about a football field worth of usable ground.

So Im going to go out and use the machete and a short shovel to make a small bed. I don't see any harm in it, no one will see it. I can take some chicken wire and make a little fence and cover for it, maybe 10 plants.

There are deer out there. Anyone had deer destroy anything to get to plants? Do deer even like tomato?


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## weedygarden

SewingMachine said:


> Well, my wife started 50 tomato plants. We garden at a community garden, in a 20 x 20 plot. Obviously, those tomato plants aren't going to fit.
> 
> I have a rain day off work today, I am going to head into the conservancy next door
> https://parks-lwrd.countyofdane.com/park/PheasantBranchCreekConservancy
> 
> and start a stealth garden. I am in there all the time, and no one goes where I will be. If you look at the picture on the front page of the link, what looks like grass/fields along the spring creek, is actually cat tails and a lot of sawgrass. There are a ton of crab apples on the left side, where there is about a football field worth of usable ground.
> 
> So Im going to go out and use the machete and a short shovel to make a small bed. I don't see any harm in it, no one will see it. I can take some chicken wire and make a little fence and cover for it, maybe 10 plants.
> 
> There are deer out there. Anyone had deer destroy anything to get to plants? Do deer even like tomato?


I can't answer any of your questions, but I think that planting stealth gardens is a great idea. We never know when we might be refugees, be displaced, or more. I think of that partial bag of potatoes that I have and have been saving for planting, because they are sprouting. There are so many places to plant. I think if there is a weed patch somewhere, it could often be a stealth garden. Of course, there could be toxins and other problems when you are planting in odd places.


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## phideaux

Rabbits will eat the tomatoes fruit.

I've never had deer eat my tomatoes.



Jim


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## Flight1630

I like eating tomatoes


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## bugoutbob

My Deer pick my tomatoes and spit them out. I usually lose a few to them then they seem to remember that they don't like them. My roses on the other hand are constantly being ravaged by the deer


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## terri9630

Mice will eat tomatoes.


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## terri9630

You might want to check local laws and such to make sure your not going to be arrested for destroying public property. If that was my land I'd have a huge problem with someone cutting up my grass land.


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## SewingMachine

terri

There are probably some ethics issues.

The goose hunters regularly tear up/cut down spots to make blinds. Not much of a defense, but there is a precedent.

And, not even the goose hunters go back as far as I am. It's pretty much a little hillock in a swamp.

I will make sure I don't disturb the geese and cranes, and I won't dig up a 30 x 30 bed.

Just enough space to plant one plant, and space them out about 10 feet from each other. I view it much like fishing or hunting there, or hunting mushrooms. I'm just putting something there to take back out later.

Honestly, if I checked the local laws before I did anything, I wouldn't be able to do much. My entire upcoming lifestyle (travel trailer living year round) is illegal almost everywhere according to local zoning laws.

I did check, and technically there are no regulations (the land is in a trust, it is not a state or city park, and it is maintained by volunteers who cull invasives and do seasonal burns) regarding what I propose. 

But you are right. What I am doing is a bit shady.


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## terri9630

You might be better off with a trowel instead of a machete and only remove enough grass to plant the plant. Leave the grass to camouflage the growing tomato plant.


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## backlash

Where I live the police and DEA fly around in ultralights and small planes looking for stealth gardens.
They are not looking for tomatoes however.

What are you going to do with all the tomatoes you harvest?


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## ZoomZoom

backlash said:


> What are you going to do with all the tomatoes you harvest?


Yea, you're going to have a lot of tomatoes. 

To give you an idea, the year we planted about 30 plants (Roma's), once they are ready to harvest, we were canning every 3 days. We cooked them down to sauce and got about 200 quarts. Unless you want to do it daily, you'll probably want to have a lot of canning gear and it helps to have 3-4 people.

If you're just going to can them without cooking them down, you may be closer to 350-400 quarts.


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## Tweto

I'm only planting 6 tomato plants this year and those will produce enough for the wife and I can eat for 1/2 of the year. To do this I have the plants in a fenced in area with the bottom 6" buried in the dirt to keep the rabbits out. I plant marigolds next to them to keep the bugs out. And then I monitor them every day for any signs of varmint or insect damage.

71 plants in the wild will be destroyed by varmints so fast it will make your head spin. 71 plants in the wild will produce very limited quantity of good tomatoes, at least in my experience.

Anyway, good luck with the effort and let us know how it turns out.


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## CrackbottomLouis

Deer ate my tomato plants to the stem last year. They didnt like the fruit but they certainly liked all the green parts.


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## SewingMachine

We will be donating a portion to a local food program, the community garden is also part of that. The organization donates a certain dollar amount for every pound of vegetables you grow. To be honest, it's more my wifes thing, she knows more about it. I just do the labor.

But yeah, so some of the tomatoes will be donated, and we will be canning a certain amount. I have shelf space for 600 jars, but I only have a hundred or so right now. I need to buy more jars.

Last year we canned 50 or 60, so yes it will be a big step up in time and materials.

The goal is to have whole canned tomatos, base sauces, and pasta sauces, as well as home made salsa. Enough to last until next harvest season 2018 if at all possible. I got another storage space upstairs in the condo building, it gets hot, but I can clear up a lot of shelf space for jars in the condo if need be.

The community garden plot is just too small, if that's all I use, I can't reach my goals for self-sufficiency. 

Also installing a chest freezer in the closet in the boys old room (college) so I can freeze vegetables as well.

We really want to stop buying vegetables, except certain things in season that are difficult to grow here. 

With the hydro tower inside, we should get greens year round, and I would like to grow strawberries indoors as well, but I have never tried.

I will be the first to admit, we may be biting off more than we can chew, but if so, the vegetables will be donated, as well as given to two single moms in the building, so they wont go to waste.

Stealth Gardening - ethically questionable

Community Building - always a good thing

it's about balance, I guess.


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## SewingMachine

CrackbottomLouis said:


> Deer ate my tomato plants to the stem last year. They didnt like the fruit but they certainly liked all the green parts.


Good to know. I have always had fenced in gardens. I will have to come up with something.


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## Pessimistic2

SewingMachine said:


> Honestly, if I checked the local laws before I did anything, I wouldn't be able to do much. My entire upcoming lifestyle (travel trailer living year round) is illegal almost everywhere according to local zoning laws.


Travel trailer living..... Whatever state you happen to be in, check the lakes, water management areas, state parks....many offer free sites, or very low cost sites, WITH full facilities/hookups! Some have partial hookups, too, water, electric, but you have to use the dump station. MUCH less expensive than most major "campgrounds" like KOA, Campgrounds of America, etc.

Lake Talquin, outside of Tallahasse, FL (many free campgrounds, paid campgrounds, full/partial hookups) was one of my favorite spots to go (23' Lynx Prowler) for fishing! SOME places have a two week stay limit, but you can leave for one day and come back for another two weeks! :wave:


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## Meerkat

Pessimistic2 said:


> Travel trailer living..... Whatever state you happen to be in, check the lakes, water management areas, state parks....many offer free sites, or very low cost sites, WITH full facilities/hookups! Some have partial hookups, too, water, electric, but you have to use the dump station. MUCH less expensive than most major "campgrounds" like KOA, Campgrounds of America, etc.
> 
> Lake Talquin, outside of Tallahasse, FL (many free campgrounds, paid campgrounds, full/partial hookups) was one of my favorite spots to go (23' Lynx Prowler) for fishing! SOME places have a two week stay limit, but you can leave for one day and come back for another two weeks! :wave:


 We went to my old home town of Stone Mountain Ga. several weeks ago then to St Augustine. Fl. last month. Only took a couple trips in our TT so far. We sold the bus'skoolie' and I cry everytime I see a school bus now.

Want to go fishing again sometime this month.

Tall ever hear of Boon Dockers ? It is private owners who travel and let people camp at their place free.


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## Pessimistic2

Meerkat said:


> We went to my old home town of Stone Mountain Ga. several weeks ago then to St Augustine. Fl. last month. Only took a couple trips in our TT so far. We sold the bus'skoolie' and I cry everytime I see a school bus now. Want to go fishing again sometime this month.
> Tall ever hear of Boon Dockers ? It is private owners who travel and let people camp at their place free.


My grandfather (father's side) bought a retired "city bus (diesel)" and fixed it up like an RV before anybody even knew what an "RV" was, back in the late 40s. Used it for his "prospecting trips." I have no idea what he got for it, but he sold it in the early 60's, ran like a top! I only vaguely remember it, but it was a heck of a lot better than my 23' Prowler, I can tell ya that!

I'll bet ya do miss that "school bus!!!"


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## txcatlady

Irish spring soap helps keep deer and rabbits off plants also. Grate it or hang chunks in a sock on stakes around garden. Grating soap lasts short period of time. But my cats apparently love the soap in sock. Something chewed toe out and soap gone. Maybe a rat?


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## bugoutbob

I have heard of the Irish Spring hack. Tried it on my cedars and the deer ate the cedars and ignored the soap


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## SewingMachine

Yeah the owner of the farm I worked at as a kid had a bunch of old cars in a barn, he would get boxes and boxes of soap, and in exchange for dinner (and beer, my parents were ok with it, even at 10) we would sit and shave soap around the cars. 8 cars. A lot of soap, lol.

Anyone want to spitball some ideas on workable barricades to deer?

Anything I take will have to fit in a canoe, that's how I have to get to the location. Too swampy to walk carrying anything.

I can make small cages with wire hardware cloth

https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...547090183-c-5768.htm?tid=-6218929135708461914

But that would be a tad expensive. Doable...

Rabbits, I'm not so worried about. The area is loaded with coyote, so much so that they regularly range right through the surrounding neighborhoods to get prey. We have rabbits in the lawn here all the time. I have never seen a rabbit there, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.

I can do chicken wire, I already have about 20 chicken wire cages made.

I don't want to do any wire. I worked at a horse ranch in 6th - 10th grade, 2 actually, and saw a horse get a loop of electric fence around its leg. It was horrifying. Never again.

I would do pepper spray? Maybe?

I'm open to ideas.

Even if this doesn't work, I'm ok with it. I take the canoe out there, set up bank poles (I make custom ones, they are neat IMO, lol) and read books. I might as well do something constructive.

As far as the trailer.. I will post my ideas for that under another topic.


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## bugoutbob

Excuse the ignorance but are bank poles those rigs they anchor in the ground and use for fishing cats? I have heard of them but never seen one, we have no catfish up this way. Most of our fishing is trout and kokanee. Not complaining as I love trout, simply making an observation. Heck, I had never caught a bass or a sunfish until I was in Ontario a few years ago and I have been fishing most of my 59 years.


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## SewingMachine

When I get the next set made up, I will post some pics.

Most folks here run a bamboo cane pole as a "bank pole", with no reel attached. Just jam it in the dirt and come back in the morning.

Mine are 2 foot long, with a 2 foot long detachable aluminum rod that goes in the ground. Here hang on a minute.


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## SewingMachine

Pretty much like this, except this one has an ice reel on it. I spool out as much as I want, and hand throw the line. Works great for overnight sets, but you can't use it like a regular pole. It's just a fancy bank pole.

I have parts to make 3 more, but I am deciding on reels to buy to put on them. I dont want junk, but I don't need Van Staals either, lol.

wow, blurry. But anyway...


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## tmttactical

SewingMachine said:


> Yeah the owner of the farm I worked at as a kid had a bunch of old cars in a barn, he would get boxes and boxes of soap, and in exchange for dinner (and beer, my parents were ok with it, even at 10) we would sit and shave soap around the cars. 8 cars. A lot of soap, lol.
> 
> Anyone want to spitball some ideas on workable barricades to deer?
> 
> Anything I take will have to fit in a canoe, that's how I have to get to the location. Too swampy to walk carrying anything.
> 
> I can make small cages with wire hardware cloth
> 
> https://www.menards.com/main/buildi...547090183-c-5768.htm?tid=-6218929135708461914
> 
> But that would be a tad expensive. Doable...
> 
> Rabbits, I'm not so worried about. The area is loaded with coyote, so much so that they regularly range right through the surrounding neighborhoods to get prey. We have rabbits in the lawn here all the time. I have never seen a rabbit there, but that doesn't mean they aren't there.
> 
> I can do chicken wire, I already have about 20 chicken wire cages made.
> 
> I don't want to do any wire. I worked at a horse ranch in 6th - 10th grade, 2 actually, and saw a horse get a loop of electric fence around its leg. It was horrifying. Never again.
> 
> I would do pepper spray? Maybe?
> 
> I'm open to ideas.
> 
> Even if this doesn't work, I'm ok with it. I take the canoe out there, set up bank poles (I make custom ones, they are neat IMO, lol) and read books. I might as well do something constructive.
> 
> As far as the trailer.. I will post my ideas for that under another topic.


I have read there are plants that deer hate and will avoid. I don't remember which ones and do not know if they would grow in your planed grown area. I like the concept but foresee tremendous obstacles. Big 4 legged plant eaters, small 4 legged plant eaters and very tiny multiple leg sets (bugs) plant eaters. Add the fact your are not going to be tending the garden daily and I think you are just going to be providing additional nourishment for the wildlife. Keep us posted and wish you luck.


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## Woody

SewingMachine said:


> ...
> Anyone want to spitball some ideas on workable barricades to deer?
> 
> Anything I take will have to fit in a canoe, that's how I have to get to the location. Too swampy to walk carrying anything.
> 
> I would do pepper spray? Maybe?
> 
> I'm open to ideas.
> ...


Braided fishing line, as a perimeter. I believe mine was #80 and dark green. I put it between trees that the deer went between, deer path, into the yard. About waist high worked fine. I don't know if they can't see it or just bump into it and it freaked them out, but they stopped using the path.

Human and canine urine also helps, they can smell the carnivore in it. Take the puppy with you (why wouldn't you on a trip as fun as going ANYWHERE) and have them pee around the area also. Brush them a bit there and spread the fur around the plants. Human hair is supposed to work, but never did for me. Maybe I got vegetarian hair from the barber? Pee is great fertilizer for the tomatoes also!!!

Bugs were my biggest issue with stealth gardening. If I didn't regularly visit them, the problem would be out of hand before I could even start a solution! Not like in the regular garden, as you visit every day, you can address problems before they become an issue. None of my attempts yielded great results. Yes, occasionally one would be good, but most had minimal returns for lack of attention. Perhaps 10% of the plants would actually survive to produce anything. Maybe it was just the area I was in, but if planning on sustaining by stealth, plant a LOT of them!!

Pepper spray works. Not so much for deer, as it washes off. Small animals it worked better for as it concentrated lower for them.


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## DrPrepper

Since my yard is mostly rocks, and I have limited garden space, I put my tomatoes in large pots, and cover the pots with bird netting. A little sevin dust keeps the bugs away, too. This has worked out really great for us, and we usually have fresh tomatoes all summer and part of the fall. I can some, and all of the trimmings from canning and cooking go into a large freezer bag with other veggie trimming for making stock, which also gets canned. A little veggie stock adds great flavor to stews, pasta sauces, and braised roasts.


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## Pessimistic2

Caribou said:


> There are plants that deer love. I have seen seed mixes that are sold because deer love them so much.
> You might consider growing red meat in your garden.


Ya grow red meat in that garden and yer gonna have more to worry about than DEER!!


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## SewingMachine

I found some 1$ metal mesh trash baskets that will work for a while. Just to keep the small critters away and unable to nip the tops off. They are about two foot tall, I am cutting the bottoms out and stapling them down.


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## terri9630

SewingMachine said:


> I found some 1$ metal mesh trash baskets that will work for a while. Just to keep the small critters away and unable to nip the tops off. They are about two foot tall, I am cutting the bottoms out and stapling them down.


Why not just turn them upside down so the critters can't jump in?


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## SewingMachine

I plan on leaving them in place and allowing the tomato's to grow up through them. Then I can stake them. They should be tall enough to keep rabbits away at least. There isn't much I can do about deer. I don't want to put up any lines or string, even though no one goes out there, i would hate for that ONE person to go and trip over my stuff.


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## international_girl

Hey I'm not sure if you're still looking for info but there is a concept called "guerrilla gardening" which is basically what you came up with on your own! If you google guerrilla gardening, lots of ideas will come up about how to make the most of it and not get in trouble (whether with deer or tomato hunters!  )


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