# Don't talk to the Police!



## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

No matter what you say, whether you're innocent or not, you should NEVER talk to the police. Something will incriminate you and many people are afraid to envoke their 5th ammendment right. But I've listened to a very informative speech by 2 people, Law Professor James Duane and Law Enforcement Office George Bruch. They've done a great job of explaining from both perspectives, why it's never a good idea to talk when being interviewed or questioned. Listen to their presentations and you make your own decision, but I no know why I won't be talking. (Hope I'm never in that position though.) Even if you get a speeding ticket...shut up.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Agreed. It never turns out the way you want it to.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Ummm . . . as a former law enforcement officer, and with most of my friends and family being either local or federal law enforcement . . . I've gotta say that I take issue with this statement.

Cops are not the bad guys. We are there to look out for you. I have always said that the reason a lot of people don't like cops is that they rarely see them when something good is going on. It's a basic Pavlovian response: something bad is happening, you see a cop, you begin to associate cops with bad things happening. 

Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


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## Kriket (Dec 9, 2009)

Turtle said:


> Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


I will have to agree. While don't start spilling my guts when I get pulled over, if they ask me a question I answer it. I believe if you are getting in trouble for having done something and lie about it you are in even more trouble. Being an @$$ will just tick them off then they start looking for things to nail you with (license plate light out anyone?)

Generally I don't do things that will get me in trouble.


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## twolilfishies (Dec 6, 2009)

I like to break laws that impede on the rights of humans
and yah,,, talking to cops is a bad idea IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE:dunno:


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Please don't misunderstand, I'm not try to bash Cops. I agree that for the most part they are the good guys. I guess I should have more clearly defined my statement. When referring to Cop's I'm referring to the "interviewers" (a.k.a. interrogators) as Officer Bruch referred to in my most recent podcast. 

If you've done nothing wrong, sure you have nothing to hide, but your words can still be twisted later, even if unintentionally. It's the prosecutors, not the cops, that can twist them. The Cop's (interviewer) job is to record what you say, then let the jury decide. 

Even the laywer (James Duane) make's that case. The 5th ammendment is to protect the innocent, not let the guilty off the hook. 

Listen to the show, you'll know what I mean.


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## jebrown (Nov 7, 2008)

I am not sure if the police are the good guys or the bad guys. I have seen them act both ways.
I spent 22years with the Red Cross working disasters. I have worked with law enforcement from city, county, state FBI DEA, ATF you name it. I also drove an ambulance it Los Angeles county for three years. Some I would do my level best to help if it was needed. Others I wouldn’t lift a finger for, that may sound harsh but they bring it on to themselves. 
As far as looking out for me I have never had the need for any one look out for me. I have done this successfully since I turned 18.
Yes I have been around them when they do something good. When I see that I take it upon my self to let them know how much I appreciated their efforts.
The don’t do anything wrong and you will have nothing to worry about is a very huge lie. I have seen it first hand particularly with domestic violence incidents. I also dated a civil rights attorney for about four years. She made a lucrative living dealing with law enforcement wrongdoing.
The one thing she stressed more than anything was under whatever circumstance answer the question with as few words as possible. Do not volunteer anything regardless if you are a suspect or just being questioned about what happened.
I also do photography and more than one time I have been at odds with police over where I can and can’t shoot. 
Interfering with a photographer shooting in a lawful manner is a violation of that individual’s first amendment right of free speech. I have never been arrested for any thing. Never let them have my film when they told me to turn it over to them. I told them that without a warrant it wasn’t happening and it never did.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Turtle said:


> Ummm . . . as a former law enforcement officer, and with most of my friends and family being either local or federal law enforcement . . . I've gotta say that I take issue with this statement.
> 
> Cops are not the bad guys. We are there to look out for you. I have always said that the reason a lot of people don't like cops is that they rarely see them when something good is going on. It's a basic Pavlovian response: something bad is happening, you see a cop, you begin to associate cops with bad things happening.
> 
> Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


I grew up in law enforcment (dad and uncles, friend of dads, etc.) and the reason they throw in that anything you say can and will be used against you is for that exact purpose. It's the LEO's job to collect information and seize individuals and properties based on statements(also to defend the public I'm not limiting their jobs). Providing a statement to the police is all taken into consideration on whether they are going to use there judgment to arrest you or another party. I would rather plead a case to a judge on my own recognizance than after a night in jail.

I don't see you guys negatively at all and I know better than to provide gratuitous info. No offense. I love you guys and have seen the toll it takes on you. You should all be held in great esteem among all cultures and societies. I'm sorry that's not always the case.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Thanks for the kind words, Dean. I should point out, however, that I am no longer in law enforcement; I left because I saw very early on how much the job wears people down, and how it almost invariably turns decent guys into either A) complete a$$holes who are terribly jaded and hate humanity, or B) power-hungry a$$holes with huge egos. I think if I hadn't been so young when I went in, I would really have enjoyed it more and felt more fulfilled by it. I still debate going back into it, more every day. 

I think this is a big part of why I become so defensive when I feel like people are bashing cops: It's dealing with all of the negativity that drags those guys down.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Once again, this is not meant to bash cops. The more I think about it, it's about prosecutors. They will use anything against you, many times just to get a conviction. They could care less about innocence, they just want a conviction. The cops (investigators) gather the evidence. 

So again, please cease the cop bashing talk, that wasn't intended at all.

Thanks,


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Sorry, I thought that I had made clear that I was apologizing in my previous post for assuming that "cop bashing" was originally intended in the initial post, and I may have over-reacted.

No blood, no foul, eh?


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## mrghostwalker (Sep 17, 2009)

Dean said:


> I grew up in law enforcment (dad and uncles, friend of dads, etc.) and the reason they throw in that anything you say can and will be used against you is for that exact purpose. It's the LEO's job to collect information and seize individuals and properties based on statements(also to defend the public I'm not limiting their jobs). Providing a statement to the police is all taken into consideration on whether they are going to use there judgment to arrest you or another party. I would rather plead a case to a judge on my own recognizance than after a night in jail.


Actually we don't read people their rights until AFTER they have been arrested- not before. And only if we want to interview them about the incident once they are in custody.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

mrghostwalker said:


> Actually we don't read people their rights until AFTER they have been arrested- not before. And only if we want to interview them about the incident once they are in custody.


And that "interview" process is where you don't talk, unless you have your attorney present!


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## Bua nó Bás (Dec 22, 2009)

Dean said:


> Agreed. It never turns out the way you want it to.


I agree with that view. Almost every time I have interaction with cops it never works out, even in situations where you're helpful to them. Whatever it is about cops, whenever you come into contact with them you make them aware of your existence and they generally pay attention to you from then on, whether you're innocent or not.

If you have to talk to them (speeding or whatever), talk, but only say the minimum required and be conscious of everything you say, do, or how you appear.

I've no time for the cops in my country, their double standards and downright impropriety is well documented. I just try my best to keep off the radar and have nothing to do with them.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

Turtle said:


> Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


You ARE joking, right?

How many inocent people have seen their lives destroyed, how many people have died because of the police?

You've GOT to be joking!

How about Jose Guerena?

Every detail in that case has "nazi" written all over it.

And how many others?

"Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about"?

Really?!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> ..."Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about"? Really?!


Don't break the law and you will have a whole lot less to worry about! Really!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> You ARE joking, right?
> 
> How many inocent people have seen their lives destroyed, how many people have died because of the police?
> 
> ...


You're looking at it from only one side. How many innocent people have the police helped? How many bad guys have they put away? How many people would be dead today without the police? What would society be like without the police?

We live in country of about 310 million people. There are 794,000 police officers and you want to talk about ONE GUY as if he's representative of something???

I'm sure at least 99 times out of 100 if you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about. Possibly 999 times out of 1000 if you're not doing anything wrong you don't have anything to worry about.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> You ARE joking, right?
> 
> How many inocent people have seen their lives destroyed, how many people have died because of the police?
> 
> ...


How many? Not very many at all. Are mistakes sometimes made? Yes, as we are human. However, police SAVE lives and PROTECT people FAR more often than not.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Seriously... DON'T!!!

Why You Should Never Talk To Police (1) 





Why You Should Never Talk To Police (2)


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

twolilfishies said:


> I like to break laws that impede on the rights of humans
> and yah,,, talking to cops is a bad idea IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE:dunno:


As dissent and firearms and firearms training are slowly being criminalized step by step in this country, we ALL have soemthing "to hide" that could be twisted by an ambitious prosecutor.

When detained or under arrest for any reason say nothing, not even friendly banter when they engage you, not even jokingly talking about the coffee,.. nothing, nada, zilch until you have a lawyer there.

While you are sitting in the interogation room just stare at the ceiling and think of your favorite science fiction novel or cats or whatever you like...no matter how much they tryt o coax you.

Remember they are allowed to lie to get you to say somthing incriminating and the way gun laws are going and the way things can get twisted, dont even try to explain away your harmless happenstance.

Say nothing, dont consent to any searches of any kind, not even to "clear things up" with the friendly officer who just wants to help you and save your time so you can can go home...


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

This is how you train cops to be SS storm troopers. You dress them like SS storm troopers, you let them get away unscathed with behaving like SS storm troopers. It’s easy. It did happen in Germany. You think it happened on Mars? It happened right here, on Earth, as close to us as the 1930s. And it’s happening again. Only this time it’s in the United Socialist States of America. The nazis were socialists, too. Theirs was the National Socialist Workers Party. Kind like the Democrats, here.

Why do you think the TSA was created and they let them get away with their monstrous behavior? So they bark and we have to freeze? That’s American? The land of the free and the home of the brave? Really? So parents have to hold their children down so the TSA thugs can sexually abuse them? Is this America? Really? Or is it the land of the neo-nazis and the home of the cowering sheeple? Naw . . . this is not America, anymore. Don’t call it “America” anymore. It’s an insult to what America once was.

This is training, pure and simple. Like Pavlov. We are all being trained for the “change” so many “hoped” for. Well . . . it’s here, all right! 

The cops are being trained for their new SS mission and quite a number of them, the majority I would propose, are taking to it like a cat to tuna. They just loooooove it! The new Gestapo is here. And they are getting military kit and armored vehicles, too. And very soon they will all be SWAT and “special” this and “special” that. Cops love to play soldiers. And feel like an invading army. An army of occupation. 

How can so many people be so blind? This -I-S- nazi germany all over again!!

Drop the blindfold!

THIS IS NAZI GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN.

And the citizens are being trained to fear, to cower, to freeze on command, to obey blindly lest they get shot like Jews in a concentration camp, like dogs, lest they get squashed like bugs. They want us to cringe at the sight of a badge or at the barking of an order. 

And the cops have the gall to go “Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.” Really?! Would you tell a Jew in 1940 germany “Talk to the Gestapo. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about” 

I mean, c’mon, people, doesn’t stupidity have a limit? 

Because it sure ought to!

They are nazifying our country right under our own feet and they go “sshhh . . . don’t worry, everything is fine, it won’t hurt, talk to the police, be honest, there’s nothing to worry about”

It makes me sick!

What comes next? They give us a stone, call it “soap” and tell us we are going to take a bath?!

How far are we from that?

Just - h.o.w - f.a.r?


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Don't talk to the police other than being cordial and answering that you are not engaged in any criminal activity. Don't explain your position because they are trained to twist wording to make you continue to explain what you're up to, wherein they will look for an opening to find out everything they want in know instead of what they "need" to know. And that goal of theirs will not help you.

This is not nazi Germany. This is becoming Soviet style Russia and occupied East Germany. Germans did not live in fear of their government unless they were communists or aligned with communists. Nazis hated communism. We're becoming communists as a result of them taking over Russia and east Germany.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Mods: can we move this from general preparedness to the conspiracy section? Nazi Germany? Seriously? We are bordering on a tin foil hat requirement now.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Apparently quite a few members of this forum seem to have given up on prepping/survival and sharing that type of info. It seems to me that quite a few posts even start out confrontational and then become pissing contests, bashing's, and personal attacks. It seems that this thread was dredged up just to be used to attack LEO's and that is very sad and in my view childish as Hell. 

As of now I (mainly to lower my BP and keep from going off on someone) am going to do my best to ignore as much as I can and try not to get into a pissing contest, but if the name calling and insults keep up against folks on here that absolutely don't deserve it, I can and will reply to the offender and in doing so make Magus proud, and more than likely get my hand slapped by a Mod or two. 

So how about we get back to the business of of sharing useful information and knock off all of the other BS.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I think the OP was honestly trying to make a helpful post.
and its good to remind people how to be in certain situations.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree 100%, do not talk to any police although it's been over 50 yrs since I have even spoke with one, at one time I played poker with a few every weekend, old school cops that could go into a house or bar without calling a swat team. I do watch the cop shows occasionally, read a few news papers everyday and my conclusion is that they are not the old time peace officer that was sworn to serve and protect, today they are nothing more than tax collecting thugs with a badge who love to stop, harass and humiliate people.JMO


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

lotsoflead said:


> I agree 100%, do not talk to any police although it's been over 50 yrs since I have even spoke with one, at one time I played poker with a few every weekend, old school cops that could go into a house or bar without calling a swat team. I do watch the cop shows occasionally, read a few news papers everyday and my conclusion is that they are not the old time peace officer that was sworn to serve and protect, today they are nothing more than tax collecting thugs with a badge who love to stop, harass and humiliate people.JMO


I wouldn't take it quite that far.. Many many good Police do still exist. They are likely even the majority.

But when they are used as tools of the state to oppress we need ot make sure we have our ducks in a row and not talk..

Nobody talks -> Everybody walks..

All together now:

*Nobody talks--> Everybody walks.*


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Don't feed the TROLL.


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

Dredging up another attack the police thread... yep, the police are hell bent on taking over and changing society as we know it. The sky is falling!


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

Yeah! We don't have a problem, here.

TSA Agents Interrogate Jewish Author For Reading Conservative Newspaper
http://www.infowars.com/tsa-agents-interrogate-jewish-author-for-reading-conservative-newspaper/

Go ahead. Talk to them. You got nothing to hide, right? Don't listen to people who sensationalize things. Fear mongers, the lot of them! Nawww! . . . Can't happen here.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I have a detective friend and am acquainted with his friends. Nice people. Christian people. Patriotic people. They don't seem judgmental, but some can be difficult to bring out of their "observing everyone's behavior" role.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

"Last Thursday (January 30), Police in Ankeny, Iowa deployed a 12-member SWAT team in full battle array to execute a warrant in an investigation of alleged credit card fraud. The invasion pf Sally Prince's home was captured on camera, despite the efforts of at least two of the jackbooted marauders to destroy the home security cameras used to record their crime."
"If the overconfident and inept SWAT operator had succeeded in kicking in the bathroom door on the first attempt, Ross would have been murdered."
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/02/william-norman-grigg/armed-mundanes/

Sure. Talk to them. They are there "To serve and protect" Right. They are on your side. "Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about."

for those who don't think "internment camps" run by americans could be places of horror .... i've one word for your consideration ....
http://wintersoldier2008.typepad.co...ould-be-places-of-horror-ive-one-word-fo.html

It will never happen here.

It didn't even happen over there!

N.E.V.E.R H.A.P.P.E.N.E.D!

Nothing to see, here, folks, c'mon, move along, now, that's right, just keeeeeep mooooving, nothing to see.

Fantasies!!

Sensationalism!!

Trolls!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BlueZ said:


> I think the OP was honestly trying to make a helpful post.
> and its good to remind people how to be in certain situations.


I don't have any problem at all with someone posting their thoughts about not talking to the Police or anyone else for that matter, if you want to stay mute while being questioned by an Officer that is your choice.

Where I do get annoyed is when those initial thoughts go flying out the window and the total BS starts. Like accusing all LEO's of being Nazi Storm Troopers and assuming that all LEO's are a bunch of hard core head busters that will cover up anything their fellow LEO's do no matter what.

It's just like the point Sentry18 was trying to make when he said you can't say all dentists are incompetent just because you had a bad experience with one.

Did the responder just agree to disagree and move on? Nope, apparently not only did he/she seem to totally miss the point that Sentry tried to make, he/she decided that Sentry also needed to be insulted. That is the kind of crap that gets my blood to boiling.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

He is not accusing all LEO's of anything, but given human nature the slow slide of at least some teams intentionally being used for evil is pretty much inevitable.

For example:
How big a stretch is it for some extremist Governor (like we have in NY) that has some pesky constitutionalist mayor of some town as a thorn in his side to be told by one of his staffers "you know Sir, Mayor Smith I looked into it.. he has state background checks for assault rifles but never registered any.."

One phone call to the state police SWAT team later , a team is on its way after being briefed the man is a "extremely dangerous man who didnt register and is in violation of the SAFE Act and a likely violent extremist"..

Even if he survives the encounter (which is by no means assured as anyone who gets broken into his house in the middle of the night will grab his firearms, which may subject him to a rain of bullets ) the Gov can still point and say "See how crazy those evil republicans are! They even get raided by SWAT Teams!"

And then of course there is the chance he might not survive.... which would probably serve our very special Governor just fine..

What I outlined above is a very very realistic scenario that given human nature is almost inevitable.

That's why the proliferation of SWAT teams (sorry Sentry I know most are good guys) is such a danger to our republic.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

BlueZ said:


> He is not accusing all LEO's of anything, but given human nature the slow slide of at least some teams intentionally being used for evil is pretty much inevitable.
> 
> For example:
> How big a stretch is it for some extremist Governor (like we have in NY) that has some pesky constitutionalist mayor of some town as a thorn in his side to be told by one of his staffers "you know Sir, Mayor Smith I looked into it.. he has state background checks for assault rifles but never registered any.."
> ...


You don't need to limit the party choices. I suspect Christie would not be above such behavior.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

I agree with OldVet, I have no problem with some one expressing their opinion, and discussing said opinion in a fair, calm, and rational manner. What bothers me is the unreasonable,and unfair hate mongering that goes on with some people, whose only agenda is to point out how right they are,and how wrong everyone else is. I try to learn from everyone, even if I don't agree with their opinion, but treating some one in an unfair, unreasonable, and hateful way is not something I want to do, and try to avoid. If TSHTF those attitudes and others are not something that will help us but,will make the situation worse and does nothing to contribute to a calm spirit and a level head. Life is way to short.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> This is how you train cops to be SS storm troopers. You dress them like SS storm troopers, you let them get away unscathed with behaving like SS storm troopers. It's easy. It did happen in Germany. You think it happened on Mars? It happened right here, on Earth, as close to us as the 1930s. And it's happening again. Only this time it's in the United Socialist States of America. The nazis were socialists, too. Theirs was the National Socialist Workers Party. Kind like the Democrats, here.
> 
> Why do you think the TSA was created and they let them get away with their monstrous behavior? So they bark and we have to freeze? That's American? The land of the free and the home of the brave? Really? So parents have to hold their children down so the TSA thugs can sexually abuse them? Is this America? Really? Or is it the land of the neo-nazis and the home of the cowering sheeple? Naw . . . this is not America, anymore. Don't call it "America" anymore. It's an insult to what America once was.
> 
> ...


Oh My God!!!! You are so right and I never noticed. Quickly now while nobody is looking, there is a boat to Casablanca. Go to a place called Rick's. He can hide you from the Germans.... I mean the Americans!!! If that is your true opinion then I highly advise you its time to bug out and now!! Try central America. The beaches are nice and so are the rebels I've heard.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

It's snowing here again wow it's purdy


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

I just wanted to make an observation about police brutality from my somewhat limited perspective on the issue. I've seen videos about people getting seriously hurt by the police and in about 90% of the cases, the people were highly intoxicated and out of control. I can't help but wonder what the outcome of those incidents would have been if the person had been sober and followed instructions during the arrest/booking process. I'm not saying that they would never have problems even if they did cooperate. If they did I think it would reduce the incidents of police brutality because the type that would victimize people would most likely go for the easiest prey and that would be the intoxicated people. 

I've never been arrested and only pulled over a few times. I've never even had a cop put his hands on me because I don't give them a reason to. Although most police are probably good natured people that sincerely want to make a positive difference in the world they live in, the same can't be said about all of them. Since I don't know the nature of what lies beneath the badge and uniform when they're around I never take the situation for granted and so far it has kept me alive and out of jail.


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## Dave0 (May 14, 2012)

there was a murder in my area when i was young, all the witnesses that spoke to police were murdered, the murderer was the police sargt.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

Wife is a fool - cop is a nazi

http://seanlinnane.blogspot.com.ar/2014/02/gun-owners-be-careful-if-you-pass.html

That's why you don't talk to them.
They are your enemies.

And that's why you should endeavour to educate your wife not to be a fool. She should be on YOUR side not on the side of the nazis. Train your family.

Knowing how to act in front of the enemy is paramount.

Notice the absolute absence of the merest trace of respect on the attitude of the nazi.

And notice his absolute confidence in the impunity with which he knows he can act, entitled by a tyrannical state and backed up by the nazi organization of local SS storm troopers.

THAT . . . is a nazi.

When he confronts a citizen, he's the hammer, the citizen is the nail.

This is how it starts.

We know how it ends.

Have you wondered why cops react so adamantly against people filming them? Have you wondered why they try to destroy any camera they find on every one of their raids? It's very simple they don't want any evidence to come up later of their crimes. Does it sound normal to you? Does it sound like that's how a cop should act?

They are TERRIFIED of being filmed or recorded in any way shape or form.

Why?

We all know why.

While they extend and abuse to ridiculousness the use of technology AGAINST the citizen, they cringe at that same technology being applied TO THEM.

And they have the humongous gall of going "if you have nothing to hide" and "if you don't break the law"

OK.

If THEY "have nothing to hide" and if THEY "are not breaking the law" then why are they so permanently deathly afraid of evidence being presented later of their nazi antics?

WHY?

The german nazis went to great efforts to try and hide their crimes.

Think about it.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Dont't feed the troll


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

In my opinion it's 50/50. In my opinion many police officers abuse their power while some are really good people. I believe if the government turns against us half would be with the citizens and the other half would be with the government. I feel the same way about the military. In my opinion you should never answer a question without a lawyer present. That is your right as a citizen and the police will do their best to get you to waive it so they can get you to make a mistake. My issue with the current police situation is the fact that they have more power than the citizens they protect. They have almost limitless impunity as long as they have "probable cause". They can break into your house and if you pull out a weapon they have the right to shoot you dead in your own home. It doesn't matter if it's a baseless search as long as they have some crackhead trying to get out of jail willing to point the finger at u so they can get a warrant. They can throw you down on a concrete sidewalk doing you harm in order to arrest you. They can lie to you but you are not allowed to lie to them. In my opinion the fact that they have substantially more power than the citizens they are sworn to protect will always bother me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Not talking to the police makes you look guilty.

I have always found that answering just the questions being asked in a direct straight forward way is the correct method. Do not add you own narrative (no blabbing). Here's an example; LEO "did you see anything" then answer "yes" or "no" and do not add anything.

I have had maybe 100 interactions with LEO's asking me questions and have never been treated poorly. 

Also, don't be argumentative or confrontational, if you think you will be treated like a criminal then they will think you are guilty.

Do not attract attention to yourself. Be the grey man and fade into the back ground.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

camo2460 said:


> Dont't feed the troll


 I Agree and thank you because I was about to "gear up" until your post. I will not waste the time and effort it would take to engage in something that would ultimately just piss me off even more than it already has.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

People are afraid. They are not only afraid of LE, they are afraid of the TSA, the FBI, Homeland Security, the IRS, the ATF, the NSA, and the list goes on and on and on.

Is this still America?

Everybody knows that every governmental organization is being used for political spying and persecution.

People are afraid of their own government and its jackbooted thugs.

"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty." -- Thomas Jefferson

Do you really think what we have now is liberty? C'mon, who's afraid of the other?

EVERY governmental organization is buying tons and tons of ammo. For training? Really? That's why they are buying hollow points?

They are preparing for war. War against the American people.

We are so far down the path to nazification that people don't want to notice that police departments are getting what for them is the equivalent of a tank. And many more other military equipment. And even the smaller departments. Suuure . . . the excuse is that there's an enormous surplus and what are we going to do with all that military hardware, uh? What? Let it rot? Isn't it better to give it to those who can use it?

Do we really want our already nazified cops to be riding on these:

The spoils of war: Sheriffs, police nationwide getting armored vehicles left over from Iraq
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/11/2...wide-getting-armored-vehicles-left-over-from/

Not your typical police car: Military vehicles put to new use back in U.S.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/not-you...itary-vehicles-put-to-new-use-back-in-the-us/

Military hand-me-downs: US police getting leftover armored trucks from Iraq
http://rt.com/usa/us-police-mraps-iraq-251/

Californians outraged after police acquire military armored vehicle to patrol city
http://rt.com/usa/californians-outraged-police-armored-vehicle-689/

Local police fight crime with 18-ton armored military vehicles
http://www.theverge.com/2013/11/26/...t-crime-with-18-ton-armored-military-vehicles

California police department gets $650,000 37,000lb armored military truck
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-650-000-37-000lb-armored-military-truck.html

Look at what they are giving our already nazified LE community. Are they nuts? No. This is a well thought out plan to further nazify them.

How long will it take until a SWAT team instead of a battering ram to take down a residential door, uses the Ma Deuce on top of their "police vehicle" and kills half the block inhabitants? A fifty cal round will go through most houses AND their inhabitants as is they weren't there.

When a cop is dressed like a soldier and talks to you from inside a tank . . . you are toast. Because by then he sees himself as a soldier, not a cop, and what do you think YOU are in the equation? Only a fool doesn't comprehend that by then YOU have been turned into the enemy of the guy inside the tank. There are no two ways about it.

LE used to be just that. Now they are SS storm troopers of occupation.

And they are behaving like that.

And loving every minute of it.

Open your eyes, all those of you that haven't yet done it. We are so far down the slippery slope to nazism that many are closing themselves to the reality we are living. This is the reality. And people are afraid of it.

Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America
http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america

Now, it is true that one or a few sites and / or articles can be lies and sensationalism. But what's going on are not just a few sites. It's the whole country, the whole LE community. This is what is happening to us, NOW.

The absurdly dangerous militarization of America's police
http://www.salon.com/2014/01/09/the_absurdly_dangerous_militarization_of_americas_police_partner/

How Cops Became Soldiers: An Interview with Police Militarization Expert Radley Balko
http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/police-militarization-an-interview-with-radley-balko

America's police are looking more and more like the military
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/07/militarization-local-police-america

Rise of the Warrior Cop
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323848804578608040780519904

Beck: Militarization of the Police Force Is Coming, And No One 'Seems to Care'
http://www.mediaite.com/online/beck...ice-force-is-coming-and-no-one-seems-to-care/

Look at those guys. Take a really good, hard, look. Are they cops? Really? Do they look like cops? Do they behave like cops? Or do they behave like SS storm troopers?

Do you think those guys are going to give two cents for your well being or your rights? Really? I've got news for you: to them . . . you are a bug. Like one of them once said: you are a "sh!t bird"

We are living in a police state and the police is immune from prosecution. The tyrannical state knows they are the only defense they have left having grossly violated the Constitution and having trampled most of the rights of the people. All they have left is the force of the arms of the LE community to stop the natural reaction of a free people on the road to enslavement. The "long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism" condition has been met a long time ago. The masters know it better than the subjects. Thus the tanks and the soldiering and the nazification and the immunity.

Giving military hardware and immunity to the LE community, as is being done today by our corrupt politicians, is like giving shoes to girls. Does anybody think they are going to say "no"? It's like giving drugs to a junkie. It's like giving bananas to a monkey.

So, go ahead, talk to the cops.

They are on your side.

Oh, and did I tell you about the tooth fairy?

She's real, you know?

"Since knowledge, thinking, and rational action are properties of the individual, since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not depends on the individual, man's survival requires that those who think be free of the interference of those who don't. Since men are neither omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to cooperate or to pursue their own independent course, each according to his own rational judgment. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man's mind." - Ayn Rand

Don't know how many cops have read Ayn Rand. I would expect a few of them. But I'm certain of one thing in this respect: they sure as hell don't like her!

In the United Socialist States of America the powers that be and their minions, the jackbooted thugs of the LE community don't want free thinking people. They want sheeple who cringe and freeze and obey and cower. They want slaves sheeple and the SS storm trooper cops are their guard dogs to keep the flock in its place.

They don't have a leg to stand on and they know it and that's why they have nothing to say. They have no arguments. They only have force, the same kind of force the nazis had.

Open your eyes before it's too late.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Zeev they are watching you. They are coming. 

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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

Wow.

Jimmy


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

Oh brother. Someone needs to get his tin foil hat back on his head immediately.


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## prepare_survive_thrive (May 7, 2012)

I think the problem is there are so many obscure law that everyone of us are in violation of some law in one form or another at any given time. Present laws have been written to be general and as vague as possible, and as we all know ignorance of the law is no excuse. I have 6 different friends that are Leo and all of them are great guys, but they have a job to do that is set down by the higher ups in government. Many times their hands are tied. You can't unsay something. As mandated by the U S government it is no longer protect and serve it is law enforcement. Many Leo are helpful courteous individuals, but that is because of their own code of ethics and often in violation of the rules and regulations of their occupation.


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## tenntrucker (Jan 8, 2014)

What cops use to look like







And now

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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

I'll risk a couple of opinions here. I know quite a few cops and have family members that are part of local law enforcement and several "alphabet" agencies. I have yet to meet an officer that I believed was inclined to do anything nefarious. To the contrary, I have always had good interactions with police that were in the performance of their duties, even during my "biker" days.

That being said, I do worry about the militarization of law enforcement (especially at the local level). Also regardless of their "motto", law enforcement may be there to Serve, but not to Protect. They are there to take the report after the fact. The courts have ruled several times that law enforcement has no duty to protect you, and they don't have the resources to do so even if our society was so inclined. Protection is up to you, and that is why I will not live in a state that denies me the ability to do so (ie., "gun control" state).

*Zeev_Zwaard* made one good point in regards to officers having an apoplectic reaction to being filmed or videoed. I can understand why they might react this way, because I don't like the idea of everything that I do and say being recorded either. However, that doesn't seem to deter them from doing so.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

C'mon now. I've encountered some that were the lowest life forms, and anybody who's alive will have had bad experiences from bad cops at some point. So that is the norm. It's common for police officers to lie in court to make a charge sound worse than what it is.

Bill Carnes, former police officer, used to do a radio show wherein he would read recently compiled criminal convictions, charges, etc. for currently employed officers. The list for just one week of these events in the nation would last through several commercial and entail every sort of criminal and violent criminal corruption. Everything in the Bible would be on that list. 

My old room mate worked for the police dept and was an avid gambler. His bookie was his captain. I knew police officers that used a range of drugs too. Personally, what a person does in their time isn't so much of a concern to me if it doesn't impact their ability to function properly with other people or job. But it's still very much against the law.

When societies collapse, it won't be the military acting against the populace. It will be local "authorities" and corruption is rampant in those situations. My grandmother in law had two firearms stolen by police when they came to pick up her son back in the 40s or 50s. Her son was born with some mental defect and had to be institutionalized. The police confiscated the guns (they weren't his). She had no car and walked miles to the police station to get them back and was told they didn't exist and no guns were confiscated. That's common. These was just a financially poor, uneducated widow this was done to.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I would never wish for us to be lawless without a government however I would rather live free in a lawless country than oppressed in a country where our rights are gone. There are good police and bad ones. Once the shtf and the government is handing out free meals to police officers and their families as long as they "assist" the government I believe we will see a huge increase in the number of bad ones. In my opinion the more liberal minded police would be the ones most likely to help the government against the citizens while the rest would be on our side. 


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

BlueShoe said:


> C'mon now. I've encountered some that were the lowest life forms, and anybody who's alive will have had bad experiences from bad cops at some point. [snip]


Really? Maybe I'm not as old as you (a young 56 here), but that hasn't been my experience. I've met a couple of cops that weren't the most pleasant and lacked some professionalism, but it didn't seem that they were bad people.

I know that there are some out there that are just bad. They're all human, and that fact alone means that a certain percentage will be... defective. It just hasn't been in my experience to meet those.

As to the original post, when answering questions I try to give direct, concise answers. I have never volunteered information, unless it was in the role of a witness to an accident or a crime. Over the years, my only "receiving" end of encounters has been in the way of traffic violations. Two tickets and several warnings. All of which ended up pleasant, even if a couple didn't start that way (some officers see a big, hairy biker and tend to present a gruff front).


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

As far as actually speaking to LEAVE it depends on the situation. Witnessed a robbery or assault?? Give a statement and help out. Stopped for speeding? Stay quiet and take your ticket. Witnessed an accident? Tell em who ran the light. Shot someone breaking in your house? Stay quiet and give no statement until you talk to your attorney. So as long as you aren't the suspect its ok but be careful and cautious. 

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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*affermative self defence*



mojo4 said:


> As far as actually speaking to LEAVE it depends on the situation. Witnessed a robbery or assault?? Give a statement and help out. Stopped for speeding? Stay quiet and take your ticket. Witnessed an accident? Tell em who ran the light. Shot someone breaking in your house? Stay quiet and give no statement until you talk to your attorney. So as long as you aren't the suspect its ok but be careful and cautious.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Survival Forum mobile app


If you have used deadly force in self defense, you should give a brief narrative of the event to the responding officer, pointing out any evidence that may be otherwise overlooked and any witnesses that can backup your version of the events .

Then you ask to speak with an attorney if and when you are taken in to custody.

In an affirmative self defense , you must get your side of the events out front.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

For 30 years I lived in a small town that had a full time Marshal and a few part-time Deputies.

One Marshal was a former Military MP. He thought every thing within the Town's boundaries was his camp to dictate to. He had no understand of the difference between private and public property. He lasted just over 1 year.

Another passed a stop school bus (bus had flashing red lights on and stop arm out. He was pursuing a speeder. He caught the Speeder and gave the Driver a verbal warning. While the Town Board was building up courage to deal with the Marshal, same Marshal tried to cash checks made out to the Town. He's gone.

And the Winner. Marshal talked a local business in donating a trained K9 dog to the town. But he had the registration papers name him as the Owner. Told the Town that the Town owned the dog so the taxpayer would pay for medical and food expenses. He lasted until the public found out and force the Board to take action.

So out of the 30 years I lived there, 25 years we had Marshals that where decent and tried to live by their oath of office.

One of the Board meetings I attended the Board was discussing why they could not keep Marshals. I told them it's simple. You do no background checks. The first applicant that is able to walk in and willing to work for your low wages gets hired. After awhile the Marshal realizes they now have the training and experience to get a lot better pay at a larger Department and they leave. Or they get fired. Raise you pay scale and screen your applicants!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

BillM said:


> If you have used deadly force in self defense, you should give a brief narrative of the event to the responding officer...


Pretend you are a LEO responding to a shooting. Who would you assume is the "bad guy". The one on the ground bleeding or the one standing with a gun in their hand? So have your weapon holstered BEFORE the police arrive!

When police arrive:

1. Point out the bad guy(s). "That's the one(s) that tried to kill me"
2. Point out the bad guy's weapon(s) and any spent shell casing(s) from his gun. (Wind or feet kicking might make the shell casings disappear.
3. Point out any witnesses.
4. Let the police know where your gun is and follow their instructions on how they want to gain procession of it.
5. Tell the police that you are willing to cooperate with them BUT are too upset to do so at this time. Once you have talked to your Attorney (GET ONE!) you will be glad to meet with them.

The "I have nothing to hide" syndrome. You allow the police to interview/interrogate you without your Attorney being present.

Police ask, "How many shots did you fire?"

You give what you believe is an honestly answer, "3".

During your trial you are asked how many rounds did the gun's magazine hold? "12", you answer.

Was there a round in the chamber too? "Yes", you answer.

So you were carrying a gun that had 13 rounds in it? "Yes", you answer.

Then will you please explain to the court why you told police that you fired only 3 rounds when the gun that you gave the police was empty. Was you lying when you said you fired only 3 times or are you lying now?

You told Police that he was 20 feet away before you shot him. Police measurements show he was 30 feet away. Why did you lie to the police again? (see where this is quickly going?).

They are not purposely trying to frame you (usually). All they have to go on is your statements giving during a emotionally/adrenalin high and evidence that they took as long as they wanted to gather. And when your statements don't match the evidence, that cause doubts on your credibility.


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## tenntrucker (Jan 8, 2014)

The statement "I don't recall" is your best friend. 

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## Iafrate (Oct 9, 2013)

Turtle said:


> Ummm . . . as a former law enforcement officer, and with most of my friends and family being either local or federal law enforcement . . . I've gotta say that I take issue with this statement.
> 
> Cops are not the bad guys. We are there to look out for you. I have always said that the reason a lot of people don't like cops is that they rarely see them when something good is going on. It's a basic Pavlovian response: something bad is happening, you see a cop, you begin to associate cops with bad things happening.
> 
> Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


I spent 28 years in the fire service and ems. I worked on a daily basis with cops and all I saw was police abuse and brutality. They dreamt up BS probable cause, looked for any reason to use force, twisted things people said to allow them to make arrests and openly despised the public. They are taught that they are in a war, that they are warriors instead of public servants. I do not feel safe around the police, I am a law abiding citizen. I drive the speed limit, I signal every turn and lane change. I abhor drinking and driving yet I keep my head on a swivel when ever I see the po-po around. I do not trust them at all. As to a Pavoloian response, I only saw bad things happen when the cops were there


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Iafrate said:


> I spent 28 years in the fire service and ems. I worked on a daily basis with cops and all I saw was police abuse and brutality. They dreamt up BS probable cause, looked for any reason to use force, twisted things people said to allow them to make arrests and openly despised the public. They are taught that they are in a war, that they are warriors instead of public servants. I do not feel safe around the police, I am a law abiding citizen. I drive the speed limit, I signal every turn and lane change. I abhor drinking and driving yet I keep my head on a swivel when ever I see the po-po around. I do not trust them at all. As to a Pavoloian response, I only saw bad things happen when the cops were there


I know I am going to regret responding to this, but I just couldn't let it go.

I am supposed to believe that in the 28 years every Officer you came in contact with (on a daily basis) was a "jack boot"? Apparently you also expect me to believe that all LEO's despise the public and are taught that they are in a war and consider themselves warriors instead of public servants?

I guess I must have missed that part of the training that told us that we were free to break any law in order to make an arrest or abuse any citizen that ever questioned us.

No I didn't miss that class because it was never given and only exists in the minds of those that must truly hate LEO's.

Oh and while I am thinking about it, the next time you are pulled over By the "po-po" be sure and call the Officer that, I can just imagine how impressed he/she will be with your intimate knowledge of what we just love to be called.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Iafrate said:


> I spent 28 years in the fire service and ems. I worked on a daily basis with cops and all I saw was police abuse and brutality. They dreamt up BS probable cause, looked for any reason to use force, twisted things people said to allow them to make arrests and openly despised the public. They are taught that they are in a war, that they are warriors instead of public servants. I do not feel safe around the police, I am a law abiding citizen. I drive the speed limit, I signal every turn and lane change. I abhor drinking and driving yet I keep my head on a swivel when ever I see the po-po around. I do not trust them at all. As to a Pavoloian response, I only saw bad things happen when the cops were there


Perhaps I should update my original statement.

I am once again a police officer, federal this time, as opposed to state, as last time.

I have never observed any such abuse of power as you describe. One of us must be lying, right? Or perhaps not. Perhaps we have had different experiences. Personally, I have met a lot of utter scumbag fire fighters; far more than the number of fire fighters I have found to be decent human beings. However, I do not write off the entire profession as lazy scofflaws, only the ones with whom I have personal experience.

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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

millertimedoneright said:


> I would never wish for us to be lawless without a government however I would rather live free in a lawless country than oppressed in a country where our rights are gone. There are good police and bad ones. Once the shtf and the government is handing out free meals to police officers and their families as long as they "assist" the government I believe we will see a huge increase in the number of bad ones. In my opinion the more liberal minded police would be the ones most likely to help the government against the citizens while the rest would be on our side.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


 Romance with the Andy Griffith style police force. When Hitler was in power Germany was one of if not the most ' educated and civilized ' nations on earth.

Never under estimate the loyalty one has for their paycheck.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Turtle said:


> Perhaps I should update my original statement.
> 
> I am once again a police officer, federal this time, as opposed to state, as last time.
> 
> ...


 Could it be elective observation? :2thumb:. I think you are open minded for a LEO. But I have worked with legalized entrapment settings aka night clubs. I have tended bar in some nice establishment's and some not so nice ones when I was younger. I have seen some very bias acts between mafia type owners and cops.

Atlanta Ga. to Miami Fl. all are basically the same. Not saying all cops are bad, but many were then and I can't see how that has changed that much for the positive.

Also cops are like family. They seldom make each other look bad.

Saying this I also understand their frustrations and the continuous stress they have to live under. The leaders are almost all lying crooks and they control the LEO's. So its hard to deal with politicians and law at the same time since politicians are against all laws that interfere with their agendas. Just my opinion the dictators have given me of themselves. :beercheer:


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## valannb22 (Jan 6, 2012)

Chad had to call the cops out superbowl Sunday. Drunk family member showed up on my doorstep and was over causing trouble. 4 county sheriff's showed up pretty quickly. I was next door with my kids watching part of the game, but walked back to our house before the cops showed up. When they got there, they talked to Chad for a few minutes and then started asking me and my son about the incident. Even after being told repeatedly that we were not home and didn't see any of it, the deputy insists that both of us fill out a statement. Fast forward a couple days, and now the Child protective services gets involved because the family member has a conviction involving children. Chad had to take all three kids out of school, drive down to the DHS office, and have them all interviewed about the incident they weren't present for. DHS worker also insists that a VPO be filled on behalf of the kids. What a PITA! Seems like talking to or calling them out opens up a much bigger can of worms than is really necessary sometimes.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Meerkat said:


> Could it be elective observation? :2thumb:. I think you are open minded for a LEO. But I have worked with legalized entrapment settings aka night clubs. I have tended bar in some nice establishment's and some not so nice ones when I was younger. I have seen some very bias acts between mafia type owners and cops.
> 
> Atlanta Ga. to Miami Fl. all are basically the same. Not saying all cops are bad, but many were then and I can't see how that has changed that much for the positive.
> 
> ...


Meerkat, I think I have been pretty fair in my criticism of cops when they deserve it. I have even given examples in the past of cops who were either fired for doing stupid things, or were in the process of being investigated for doing stupid things. I have never, however, ever witnessed a cop doing anything deliberately shady or dishonest in the course of doing their job.

You made the comment that cops are like family; this is rather true in a lot of ways. Think about it: if you have family members of whom you are ashamed or with whom you do not want to be associated, what do you do? You distance yourself from them. Cops do not like to be associated with bad cops. We do not protect our own when they do bad things. We hold them accountable for their actions; if not legally then at least pressured to leave the department. I can think of about five cops that were fired for fighting and/or drinking off the clock.

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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Like my uncle says " If someone is committing a crime against you it will take the police an hour to get there. If I wanna sit on my front porch and enjoy a cold beer I will have police there asking me questions before I can open the second can". Everyone always says everyone hates a cop till you need one. From my experience I will call my family before a cop. Leo's have never done anything for me or anyone I know in the sense of helping them. I have had guns and checks stolen before. I personally talked to the bank and had them send the video of the man cashing my check to the police. I told the police who did it and basically lined up all the evidence they needed. That was 4 years ago and it has still not been investigated or the man arrested. My aunt called me in a panic one night. She had 3 assailants at gun point she caught stealing her guns and atv. I grabbed my gun, went and picked up my cousin, and drove out to assist her. I live on the far side of the county(actually on the border of the county). I made it there 30 minutes before the police(and no they weren't on another call). They took statements and arrested the offenders. No official reports or charges ever filed. I can go on and on with stories like these. Cops show up after something happens and write statements only to end up doing nothing. This is how the cops in my town conduct business. Their is great Leo's out there who truly serve the people but as far as where I live I will stick with family. 


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

valannb22 said:


> Chad had to call the cops out superbowl Sunday. Drunk family member showed up on my doorstep and was over causing trouble. 4 county sheriff's showed up pretty quickly. I was next door with my kids watching part of the game, but walked back to our house before the cops showed up. When they got there, they talked to Chad for a few minutes and then started asking me and my son about the incident. Even after being told repeatedly that we were not home and didn't see any of it, the deputy insists that both of us fill out a statement. Fast forward a couple days, and now the Child protective services gets involved because the family member has a conviction involving children. Chad had to take all three kids out of school, drive down to the DHS office, and have them all interviewed about the incident they weren't present for. DHS worker also insists that a VPO be filled on behalf of the kids. What a PITA! Seems like talking to or calling them out opens up a much bigger can of worms than is really necessary sometimes.


While I can agree that this seems like an excessive response to what is a very cut-and-dried situation to to you, it largely amounts to one big case of CYA. Consider this: if there were a real danger to someone's children and it was not investigated thoroughly, think the crap-storm which would result from an "insufficient" investigation!

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## valannb22 (Jan 6, 2012)

Yeah, I get that part. My issue is that nothing about the whole thing necessitated a visit to DHS or a VPO even if the kids had been at home. The guy was drunk and banging on the door and wouldn't leave when asked. The cops came and were just going to tell him to stay down at his own house. They ended up hauling him off to the drunk tank for trying to run off when they were talking to him. It wasn't even at all a serious issue. At the end, both Chad and I told the officer that none of the kids had been home at the time or had seen anything, and neither of my girls were even home when the cops were there at all.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

valannb22 said:


> ... Drunk family member showed up on my doorstep ... I was next door with my kids watching part of the game, but walked back to our house before the cops showed up. When they got there, they talked to Chad for a few minutes and then started asking me and my son about the incident.....


Hind site. If you and the children would have stayed at the neighbors, you would have eliminate the hassle.

Police obligated to interviewed all that were at the scene when they arrived.


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## valannb22 (Jan 6, 2012)

They did interview us. They were told we didn't witness it and weren't home. Apparently it wasn't good enough.

It kind if goes to what some other posters are talking about. This was a really minor incident, but we're being treated like we've done something wrong or like we're liars over nothing. My kids are all worried about having to talk to the DHS worker and about having to go to court for a VPO that isn't needed and wasn't wanted.
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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

valannb22 said:


> but we were being treated like we've done something wrong or like we're liars over nothing.


You are not alone, there are quite a few others that I know who have had similar experiences.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

valannb22 said:


> They did interview us. They were told we didn't witness it and weren't home. Apparently it wasn't good enough.
> 
> It kind if goes to what some other posters are talking about. This was a really minor incident, but we're being treated like we've done something wrong or like we're liars over nothing. My kids are all worried about having to talk to the DHS worker and about having to go to court for a VPO that isn't needed and wasn't wanted.
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


it sounds like there are too many depts. trying to justify their jobs and existence


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

valannb22 said:


> They did interview us. They were told we didn't witness it and weren't home. Apparently it wasn't good enough.
> 
> It kind if goes to what some other posters are talking about. This was a really minor incident, but we're being treated like we've done something wrong or like we're liars over nothing. My kids are all worried about having to talk to the DHS worker and about having to go to court for a VPO that isn't needed and wasn't wanted.
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


The problem is that domestics are such a sensitive issue. I certainly do not mean to suggest that this was the case in your situation, but it is very common for family members to lie to protect their loved ones during domestic issues. As such, it does not shock me that they wanted to revisit the issue with you at a different time and location. Was it necessary in your situation? No, it seems not. However, it is very difficult for people to determine at the scene when that will be necessary and when not.

I have never been in a situation where I had to call child services, so I can't really give you much of a perspective on how that could've been handled differently. It seems to me, however that your situation was largely a case of bureaucratic CYA, combined with due diligence which has probably served well in the past.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Turtle said:


> Meerkat, I think I have been pretty fair in my criticism of cops when they deserve it. I have even given examples in the past of cops who were either fired for doing stupid things, or were in the process of being investigated for doing stupid things. I have never, however, ever witnessed a cop doing anything deliberately shady or dishonest in the course of doing their job.
> 
> You made the comment that cops are like family; this is rather true in a lot of ways. Think about it: if you have family members of whom you are ashamed or with whom you do not want to be associated, what do you do? You distance yourself from them. Cops do not like to be associated with bad cops. We do not protect our own when they do bad things. We hold them accountable for their actions; if not legally then at least pressured to leave the department. I can think of about five cops that were fired for fighting and/or drinking off the clock.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


 Your still my favorite fed. And I do like most cops. I just think they should be the ones globe trotting in AF One, not the dictators. If I were in control' imagine that one' I'd make sure they had 3 paid vacations a year and double the salary they make today. I like my cops like my doctors and pilots, very happy.

I'd like my politicians like my fellow countrymen ,very afraid and every move they make would be watched .

And they would be on the front lines leading us into every battle the warmogering bloodthirsty occupiers made.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I won't be 56 for a while and have witnessed several criminal acts by officers. They're people, and being people trying to investigate an incident are prone to twist the situation for their purpose. That makes them your adversary in many cases. Those are not the norm for my experiences because I'm polite and respectful.

But I've been pulled over and witnessed the officer lie about why he pulled me over. I used to drive for work at night, traveling over long distances in our state so it was common for me to attract the attention of police looking for late night drunk drivers. They would invent reasons to pull us over. _"You were swerving." _ No, we weren't. The officer was gambling and lost. Once I was pulled over for running a red light that was green and had a co-worker/witness with me to affirm that. The back water cop had a real lip on him too. All we were doing was trying to earn income and pay taxes. I've witnessed an officer lie in court to make a worse charge in order to try to get a conviction when that offense did not even occur. Also had a friend get a DUI because he was found in his car intoxicated. He was sitting in a parking lot up where he'd been with a friend on campus partying and knew he shouldn't be driving. An officer finally saw him in a parking lot early in the morning and investigated, charging him with DUI because the keys were in the ignition and he had been drinking. The car wasn't running. That's a jerk for you. So the message appears to be that you might as well drive drunk?

I've been walking down the street near where I used to work and a officer shouted out the window, "Get the fkcu out of here!" as he rode by. I'd just witnessed him and his partner stop a Jeep and harass some college kids for enjoying their life too much. He found out they weren't drunk or on drugs and still shouted at and insulted them just to be a pirck who got embarrassed. I guess he didn't like me witnessing it? I've seen him two other times openly snarling at the public. The last time, he pulled out in front of me to cross traffic to join oncoming traffic. It was a 30 mph zone, so I had no trouble recognized his white hair sitting at the stop sign realizing it was him...and I never let off the gas just because I knew it would ruin his day and hopefully he would have a canniption and get bounced off the force. :teehee:

But like I said, I had a friend/roommate who was a uniformed officer and still have a friend who's a detective. My roommate never got a ticket but I can tell you he was pulled over many times. 

Heck, when I was about 8 a neighbor called the police on me and my brother because we were pushing each other on a rolling bench inside a new construction outbuilding at the church behind our house. The officer loaded us in the back of the car as criminals and drove us to our house (which was across the back yard) because he wanted to scare us and scare my parents I guess. My mom told him exactly what he was for that one...lacking credibility and class.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

The 12th,13th and 14th Amendments was the end of this nation and law and order. It didn't protect anyone all it did was be used against everyone. Even the ones it was suppose to be for have been turned into wild dereiics. Knockout Game anyone? How about giving amnesty to a hundred million invaders? 

I bet its frustrating as hell for the dictators that we haven't gotten into civil war yet. Of course it will be hard to tell who the enemy is in this salad bowl of mixed nuts and fruits.

I guess we will just shoot and hope fro the best. or get zapped by a drone .


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

Do you want to know more?

http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/the-rule-of-law/

And if you want to be entertained AND terrorized check these out:
Coptards selfies:

http://copselfies.tumblr.com/archive

Yeah . . . go ahead . . . talk to them.

One begins to understand the terrible concept of the boredom of the sadist.

Just imagine a coptard feeling bored, deciding that it's time to be entertained and the only venue his job affords is to choose a member of the public and make him his next victim. What's he gonna do to him? So many possibilities! So much fun!! He only has to make sure of one thing: that the victim is NOT a pisslim. Those are a protected species. But your common garden variety white American? Those are free for the taking. No bag limit. Nothing is off the table. The season lasts the whole year. They ARE considered vermin, so . . .

And the great thing is that there's no organization that will come after you, no matter what you do to him. If you torture an animal you get PETA. If you torture a black guy you get the NAACP and all the usual troublemakers. If you torture a guy who likes to wear panties you get the ACLU and the Hollywood lot.

If you torture your common garden variety white American you just accuse him of any silly thing you just concocted in your imagination, you agitate yourself, you draw your gun no matter there's no reason in the world for it, you call for back up, your friendly SS storm trooper buddies show up, sirens screaming, to join in the fun, you make a whole scene of it, you get to threaten and maybe beat up a little anyone with a phone camera, you trust that the friendly local DA will get the Grand Jury to clap like trained seals at the sound of his voice and you can send the clown to jail for something he didn't do and even better, maybe for something that is not even a crime. Just put your sad SS storm trooper face on and acuse him of resisting or interfering or looking at you sideways or maybe of felonious caucasianality, that's always a crowd pleaser.

Man! Soooo muuuuch fun, uh?!! Hey! Don't hurt yourself laughing there!! I mean . . . wait . . . wait . . . wait for this one . . . this is the best part . . . listen . . . . . . the clowns? . . . they think they have riiiiiiights!!! Can you believe it?!! Aaaaaaahhh . . .

Your affirmative action commander, probably black, female and lesbian will put you up for a decoration for bravery.

Everybody knows you ought to go to jail for fifty years but the show must go on, right?

Yes, there are a few in the precinct, maybe a handfull, who share uniform, badge and oath with you and retain a distant memory of the concept of decency, that are ashamed of being seen in your company but you know they'll just keep mum and play along. They have a career to protect, they have to work with the likes of you, everyday, and they'll tell themselves, trying not to look in a mirror, that it would be worse without you all. (No, it wouldn't.)

Yeah, I would talk to you, guys. The gooood, ooold guys in blue.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*A lot of times*



valannb22 said:


> They did interview us. They were told we didn't witness it and weren't home. Apparently it wasn't good enough.
> 
> It kind if goes to what some other posters are talking about. This was a really minor incident, but we're being treated like we've done something wrong or like we're liars over nothing. My kids are all worried about having to talk to the DHS worker and about having to go to court for a VPO that isn't needed and wasn't wanted.
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


A lot of times in a domestic a neighbor or a relative witnesses an assault , weapon being brandished or a threat and when we would ask what happened they would say I didn't see anything.

I would follow them home or even just outside and they would tell me a different story.

They didn't want to say anything in front of the perpetrator . They have to live there after we are gone.

This is likely the reason the police followed you home and asked again.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> Do you want to know more?
> 
> http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/the-rule-of-law/
> 
> ...


And this, friends and neighbors, is why it is so very important to hug your children and love them. Otherwise, they will turn into attention-starved drama queens with authority issues.

It's sad, really. Zeev, I am sorry that your parents didn't love you and you feel that society has rejected you. I hope you find help for your pain.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Turtle said:


> And this, friends and neighbors, is why it is so very important to hug your children and love them. Otherwise, they will turn into attention-starved drama queens with authority issues.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

The man gave a long and informative post on his beliefs. If he would have posted about how great cops were or kissed your rear ends you would be applauding him. Even though I don't tend to have quite as strong of beliefs as him and disagree with much of what he said I applaud any man willing to openly give such a thought out statement. I just don't see the need for personal attacks especially pointed towards someone's family. That's just beyond low. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> Do you want to know more?
> 
> http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/the-rule-of-law/
> 
> ...


Good lord Zeev, what is wrong with you? are you on drugs? do you have mental problems? I understand a person having an opinion, even a strong opinion, but this issue you have with LEO enters into the realm unreasoning hate and insanity. Maybe you should find yourself another group to "hang" with, perhaps a hate group would be better suited for you, like the KKK or radical islam.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

Hmmmm I was told by tsrwivey that I was quote I seem to think I'm the only one with an opinion and if anyone has a diff opinion I would jump on them and that I wouldn't last long on the forum unquote 
So camo you better be carefully with you opinion of his opinion or tsrwivey will dress you down 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle, Sentry, Camo, and others on here that have taken the LEO side. I believe that these posts pertaining to LE have run their course and I for one am truly and finally done answering ANTI-COP posts.

I do believe it is past time to get back to what this site was initially intended for, and that is sharing info, skills, knowledge, humor, current applicable news, and not intended for what has turned into hate filled posts.

I will no longer even bother to read any "Cop bashing" Bull Crap or anything else that will ultimately end up in a "pissing contest".

I have said my piece for what it's worth and now I intend to get on with trying to learn a whole bunch more and hopefully I will be able to share some of what I have learned over the years.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

millertimedoneright said:


> The man gave a long and informative post on his beliefs. If he would have posted about how great cops were or kissed your rear ends you would be applauding him. Even though I don't tend to have quite as strong of beliefs as him and disagree with much of what he said I applaud any man willing to openly give such a thought out statement. I just don't see the need for personal attacks especially pointed towards someone's family. That's just beyond low.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Perhaps you should re-read his post which I quoted and upon which I commented. His post was long, but it was far from "informative". It was a rambling, speculative, and accusatory rant. The man obviously has anger issues and a tenuous grasp on reality... I merely speculated on the cause.

I have never asked to be thanked or expected to be appreciated for the job that I do; I only ask not to be hated for wrongs (real or imaginary) suffered at the hands of others.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I hate to tell you this but in every job you will be grouped with the dumbest and most ignorant of the bunch. As far as Leo's bad reputation it comes from your crappy co workers, the lengths cops go to to protect even the worst among themselves, the "self" policing that is done, and the fact that politicians have made it damn near impossible to be 100 percent legal now days. Ordinary citizens are either scared or hate police cause in most situations your fate is up to them. If the Leo wants to find something they can and in some cases simply have to say they did something illegal. Even if you are found not guilty you could still have been put in jail and lost time and in some cases your job. I still believe most Leo's are good people but even they can ruin someone's lives over something insignificant. Of course you are gonna be feared and disliked when a citizen knows their fate is in the hands of you especially if it is a gamble of whether or not you are one of the good honest ones. I have personally seen the effects of both sides of this. One decision by the police officer can have a life long effect on someone.


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

This is good information being shared on what to be aware of regarding SOME of the humans in law police enforcement in a "fan" event.

This isn't Pleasantville, people. Some cops are always dirty and always have been. Cops are charged every single day with the worst of offenses while being sworn to uphold the laws they violate.

Remember the bikers beating the SUV driver? 
It's very hard to figure out if there were only officers 3 involved or 5 or 6. But one of them is in the video breaking the rear window of the SUV.

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2013/1...icers-involved-biker-attack-alexian-lien.html



> *NYPD Investigating 6 Officers Involved in Biker Attack Against Alexian Lien*
> 
> The Alexian Lien biker beatdown lives for another day and it has spread to the New York Police Department. *The NYPD Internal Affairs Bureau is investigating what role six off-duty officers played in the vicious attack* on Alexian Lien, who was pulled from his SUV after a high-speed chase on the Henry Hudson Parkway.
> 
> ...


The bad ones are out there and they have a badge.


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Isn't this all subjective?
What one would call doing their job an other may call LEOs being overbearing. Who's right?

The main point seems to be what has come of the law enforcement system. What was once a peace officer is now an enforcer of the law. What was once someone who was possibly more scrutinized than the average civilian is now someone that is self-perceived as being above the law; or having an entirely different set of laws that do not pertain to non-LEO and vice versa.

Simply put, the days of Mayberry are long gone. The day of enforcement and intimidation is now here. Times change. Cultures and societies change. Having to carry a clear backpack/purse is for security or safety reasons. Sounds plausible, right? I'm sorry but I can't help to see this as; assumed guilty until proven innocent. "chances are you're carrying something in there that is bad...so to eliminate any issues just show us everything"

Can anybody be in the field of law enforcement? NO. You have to test into it - as well as military service. What they are looking/testing for is an entirely different post and maybe even forum. But rest assured they are looking for certain things before becoming 'one of them'.

Damn, I really didn't want to go off on a rant. Point is; we want Mayberry peace officers but those days are long gone. Welcome to; if you do as we say then there will be no problems.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

doubleTHICK said:


> Isn't this all subjective?
> What one would call doing their job an other may call LEOs being overbearing. Who's right?
> 
> The main point seems to be what has come of the law enforcement system. What was once a peace officer is now an enforcer of the law. What was once someone who was possibly more scrutinized than the average civilian is now someone that is self-perceived as being above the law; or having an entirely different set of laws that do not pertain to non-LEO and vice versa.
> ...


The problem with everyone referencing "Mayberry police" is that such a thing never existed, any more than one can say that Donna Reed once represented every housewife in America or that Fred MacMurray represented every father in America. Those were fictional characters who represented the ideal of what people WISHED they could be, even in their own time.

That hasn't changed. I think that the vast majority of cops wish that we could be Andy Griffith, wise and fair, popular and just, well known in a town that cares about him just as much as he cares about them. I know that I do.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Turtle said:


> The problem with everyone referencing "Mayberry police" is that such a thing never existed,


Maybe not exactly, but close.

If you had grown up in a rural "middle-of-nowhere" place you would think differently.

The thing is, in those small towns they all know who the local LEO's are... Which of their kids are in band or on the football team, what church they go to - - and that is what makes them accountable, and fair.

The cops that can remain anonymous (effectively) because the area they work in is too large for anyone to know them well, is where the accountability to the public is more difficult to achieve.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Maybe not exactly, but close.
> 
> If you had grown up in a rural "middle-of-nowhere" place you would think differently.
> 
> ...


There's a downside as well. In most small towns you have your "untouchables." These are the kids of the "city fathers" and others who sign the checks for the cops. While I was a preacher in a small town we (the church) paid for a divorce lawyer and paid for transportation so that an abused wife could get far enough away to relatives that they could protect her from retaliation. It was a small town but was certainly no Mayberry. Her abusive husband was drinking buddies with the cops (three) on the local police force and they turned a blind eye toward everything he did and helped him keep tabs on his wife. She was terrified for herself and their child.

In front of my house (another small town) I saw a pickup with three high school boys slam on the brakes in front of another boy on a bicycle. The bicycler hit the back of the truck and while crumpled on the ground another boy got out of the truck and hit him in the face several times. (It was a school dispute that brought it on.) I called the sheriff's department and reported it. I normally worked on the resident deputy's patrol car and he came by the next day to say he turned it over to the city cop. The deputy was in about a week alter and asked if the city cop had taken care of it. I said I didn't know, I hadn't heard from him. The deputy questioned me a bit then told me that Larry (the city cop) had told him that he'd been out to talk to me. The deputy said he'd take care of it and he turned the complaint over to the county attorney and had a talk with Larry.

The kids in the pickup belonged to several of the "important" town families and the kid on the bike belonged to a single mother. The cop was covering for them. One of the kid's dad apologized to me later saying he didn't know about the altercation until the sheriff's deputy contacted him to question his kid. I believed him. The parents of the other two boys gave me the cold shoulder for years. No problem on my part! I didn't like the ostentatious SOB's anyway. (One of them was under suspicion for arson. His car dealership mysteriously burned down one night. That's anther story. No charges were ever pressed but he also burned down the lumber yard next door and put an old man out of business. Hell is going to be a perfect place for some people.)

Larry retired the next year. The KBI (Kansas Bur. of Investigation) asked him for back-up on a local drug bust. He froze up and if the KBI guy had not been quick on the trigger Larry would have been shot. Larry retired the next week looking for another line of work.

The last place I'd ever want to be a cop is in small town and the last person I'd trust without knowing them personally is a cop in a small town.


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## Hector827 (Jan 27, 2014)

While I do agree with a lot of posts, I do think you should answer if you aren't hiding anything, but they are just everyday people doing their job, except some cops have abused the power of the law they hold and have given cops a bad rep. If you have broken a law and given them a reason to stop you or come and address something to you, then they are doing their duties as a police officer and keeping the community safe, but once you start dealing with a "bad cop" and the dynamic of the situation starts to change and the he is now using accusing words, or showing disrespect, then I agree on taking a vowel of silence because it is your right to do so if you choose. Sometimes cops will "get" you for something and see if they can "fish" for something bigger or get you to talking to see if there is a bigger crime or something going on. I think it all depends on the cop you are dealing with. Regardless you should trust your gut about how to approach and situation once you've already engaged in talking to the cop and you see who you are dealing with.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

On a personal note, I just arrived home from a trip and my daughter and she told me that a cop had shown up at the door and starting asking questions without explaining why he was there. I then explained, forcefully, to my wife and both daughters, that they were never to answer questions to one of our local cops. If a cop has some reason to be there he should explain it. Once he has explained why he is there, in full, they can just say thank you and send him off. I also explained they are NEVER to let a cop in the door.

Turned out it was nothing important, but it provided an opportunity to educate my children.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Mighty *******



Zeev_Zwaard said:


> Do you want to know more?
> 
> http://battlefieldusa.wordpress.com/the-rule-of-law/
> 
> ...


That's mighty ****** of you Zeev.

Every body knows to avoid the Jew courts and their ****** police !

Good Grief!


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

Geek999 said:


> On a personal note, I just arrived home from a trip and my daughter and she told me that a cop had shown up at the door and starting asking questions without explaining why he was there. I then explained, forcefully, to my wife and both daughters, that they were never to answer questions to one of our local cops. If a cop has some reason to be there he should explain it. Once he has explained why he is there, in full, they can just say thank you and send him off. I also explained they are NEVER to let a cop in the door.
> 
> Turned out it was nothing important, but it provided an opportunity to educate my children.


Don't call them if you need them either.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Turtle said:


> The problem with everyone referencing "Mayberry police" is that such a thing never existed, any more than one can say that Donna Reed once represented every housewife in America or that Fred MacMurray represented every father in America. Those were fictional characters who represented the ideal of what people WISHED they could be, even in their own time.
> 
> That hasn't changed. I think that the vast majority of cops wish that we could be Andy Griffith, wise and fair, popular and just, well known in a town that cares about him just as much as he cares about them. I know that I do.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


I think what those of us who refer to Mayberry is simply a time when we felt we could automatically trust the police. Maybe we never should have had that sort of trust in the first place, but we sure don't have it now.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Mayberry*

I grew up in Mayberry.

It was a small, (17,000 population), college town in central KY .
25,000 when college was in secession.

In 1960 it led the nation in Homicides per capita .

We had 27 gangland style murders in one year.

We had the third largest Whore House in the nation.

I knew every policeman in town and they knew everyone else.

This was the result of bootleg wars over territories .

The Whorehouse closed down in the early 1970's.

The owner just retired and urban renewal took the house and lot.

We had racial segregation and every other ill that existed back in the good ol days.

We have a proclivity to look back and pick and choose what we want to remember.

The professional trained police force in Bowling Green, KY today is far less likely to violate your civil rights or the constitution than at any time in history.

I saw it then, when there were only two patrolmen who could read and write and I have seen it now.

I prefer now!


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Interesting thread with lots of rhetoric. Going to wade in with several thoughts:

1) There will always be tension because while LEO are attempting to do their jobs there is always potential for the situation to be or become adversarial so caution is wise. Belligerence on either side is always dangerous.

2) I'm Canadian, but both Canadians and Americans typically operate with a foundationally flawed perspective, they believe we have a "justice" system. Neither country does. We both have "legal" systems which are concerned with the law and not justice. Any justice done is purely coincidental. That increases the risk of adversarial LEO vs Joe citizen relationships.

3) Good competent LEO and bad LEO's are both out there as are good and bad Joe Citizens. I have encountered both.

4) The good old days were seldom as good as we remember and the situation today is almost always worse than we think.

5) Innocent until proven guilty is a myth. Refuse to "cooperate" and you are assumed guilty. How many people are convicted by the media or innuendo? If you don't believe me ask yourself if the first thought the last time you say someone being pulled over or questioned by the police was "I'll bet that person is innocent"?

5) I will do my utmost to respect the office of the LEO and be courteous but I will always keep in mind the weaknesses inherent in the system and the potential for an adversarial situation. When in doubt I shut up and get legal advice. I am 50+ WASP male with no criminal record and nothing to hide but I always try to err on the side of caution. I keep my head down and my mouth shut.

Thanks to the good LEO's who are out there. You have a tough job and I'm glad you are there, please understand it is not personal if I am cautious in my dealings with you.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BillM said:


> I grew up in Mayberry. It was a [LARGE] (17,000 population) 25,000 when college was in secession.
> 
> I knew every policeman in town and they knew everyone else.


Bill, I like you for all the other things you have posted on P.S.... However, that is by far the dumbest post you have ever thrown up on here. You can't seriously expect anyone here to believe what you just typed.

I lived in Aberdeen, SD in the late 80's when it was 25,000 people... and there isn't a snowballs chance in hell *anyone* "knew every policeman in town and they knew everyone else." No way.

A city that size sure as hell ain't "Mayberry" anymore either.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*There were 15*



LincTex said:


> Bill, I like you for all the other things you have posted on P.S.... However, that is by far the dumbest post you have ever thrown up on here. You can't seriously expect anyone here to believe what you just typed.
> 
> I lived in Aberdeen, SD in the late 80's when it was 25,000 people... and there isn't a snowballs chance in hell *anyone* "knew every policeman in town and they knew everyone else." No way.
> 
> A city that size sure as hell ain't "Mayberry" anymore either.


There were 15 city policemen on the Bowling Green , KY force in 1960. That included the Chief and the detective.

They had seven vehicles.

The city fathers just didn't think we needed all that much enforcement.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

BillM said:


> I grew up in Mayberry.
> 
> It was a small, (17,000 population), college town in central KY .
> 25,000 when college was in secession....


That was Mayberry?

I lived 25 years in a Town with the population of under 900.

Police Department ranged from 1 to 2 full time Officers.

Town required that the Officers lived within the town's boundaries.

And yes everyone knew where the Officers lived. And the Officers also knew who the troublemakers were and what cars they drove.

The most serious crime was the Town Drunk screaming at the Town Board because the Marshal took him to the county jail instead of home (like in the pass).


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Little Chicago*



TheLazyL said:


> That was Mayberry?
> 
> I lived 25 years in a Town with the population of under 900.
> 
> ...


Well actually, after the FBI listed it as the city with the highest murder rate in the nation during the height of the bootleg war, it may not have qualified as Mayberry but I was attempting to make a point.

The point is that when I and my friends look back on our nostalgic days of youth and remember a simpler , gentler America in rural KY, it really wasn't all that gentle !

Memory has a way of softening the rough spots.


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## rugster (Mar 2, 2014)

Turtle said:


> Ummm . . . as a former law enforcement officer, and with most of my friends and family being either local or federal law enforcement . . . I've gotta say that I take issue with this statement.
> 
> Cops are not the bad guys. We are there to look out for you. I have always said that the reason a lot of people don't like cops is that they rarely see them when something good is going on. It's a basic Pavlovian response: something bad is happening, you see a cop, you begin to associate cops with bad things happening.
> 
> Talk to the police. Be honest. Don't break the law, and you won't have anything to worry about.


Nope, never answer questions from a cops! I have extended family and their friends in law enforcement and have had BBq & beers at social gatherings and they say never talk to cops.

Cops are just people like everyone else they make mistakes, some are good some are bad all information obtained through casual interaction/ discussions with law enforcement
is used as a basis for reasonable suspicion, search, arrest, trial, conviction, prison...that's how law enforcement works.
Just watch an episode of cops most often people incriminate themselves.

If a police officer thinks you have done something wrong He/She will cite you or arrest you. 
Your willingness to talk and answer questions of who, what, where and when only helps them to build a stronger case.

There are plenty of innocent people charged, convicted and serving time for things they didn't do.

http://listverse.com/2013/03/27/10-people-who-were-wrongfully-accused-of-heinous-crimes/


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

rugster said:


> Nope, never answer questions from a cops! I have extended family and their friends in law enforcement and have had BBq & beers at social gatherings and they say never talk to cops.
> 
> Cops are just people like everyone else they make mistakes, some are good some are bad all information obtained through casual interaction/ discussions with law enforcement
> is used as a basis for reasonable suspicion, search, arrest, trial, conviction, prison...that's how law enforcement works.
> ...


*sigh*

Yes, that is every cop's purpose in life: to infiltrate your family shindig and entrap you into making a confession. We often plot this while cackling in a darkened room and alternately rubbing our hands or twirling the ends of our outrageously pointed mustaches. Of course, all of this is secondary to our favorite activity, which is tying innocent women to railroad tracks.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Turtle said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Yes, that is every cop's purpose in life: to infiltrate your family shindig and entrap you into making a confession. We often plot this while cackling in a darkened room and alternately rubbing our hands or twirling the ends of our outrageously pointed mustaches. Of course, all of this is secondary to our favorite activity, which is tying innocent women to railroad tracks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


The point is you have one more expression of distrust for cops from a law abiding citizen.

The nearest thing we have to this situation is a Corrections Officer who is a cousin. He lives in a state with onerous gun laws. Even though he is very pro-2A and a competitive shooter, most of my cousins will not discuss guns with him because of his choice of career. The post you were responding to is not far fetched.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Geek999 said:


> The point is you have one more expression of distrust for cops from a law abiding citizen.
> 
> The nearest thing we have to this situation is a Corrections Officer who is a cousin. He lives in a state with onerous gun laws. Even though he is very pro-2A and a competitive shooter, most of my cousins will not discuss guns with him because of his choice of career. The post you were responding to is not far fetched.


Actually, I think you may have just inadvertently isolated the key issue at play here: assumptions.

Geek, you assume that he is a "law abiding citizen", which is fair enough, as he has given no reason to suspect anything to the contrary. I remain open to the POSSIBILITY that he may not be, but will treat him as a "law abiding citizen" until I had reason to think otherwise.

And therein lies the rub.

Conversely, those who say that they do not trust the police, by making that generalization, are choosing to operate under the assumption that what a few cops may be capable of and willing to do (i.e.:break the law, infringe upon rights, etcetera), must apply to ALL police officers, thereby making them all evil and out to get you for something. You choose to operate under the assumption that ALL cops are evil, as a result of the actions of a few.

The vast majority of police officers, however, through training and experience, treat all people as CAPABLE of doing bad things, but CANNOT operate under the assumption that anyone (or everyone, as some seem to believe) is guilty.

Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

You are getting to the main issue here. Assumptions mean everything. The problem is that many many Leo's make bad assumptions about law abiding citizens just the same as they make about Leo's. The fact is neither trust each other. Criminals make Leo's cautious about every citizen they approach while bad Leo's make citizens cautious about every leo. I try to be civil and show respect to every Leo as long as they do the same for me. The problem is when you meet the ones that treat you like you are below them. It doesn't take many bad experiences with law enforcement before you are cautious with all of them. The same way Leo's are with citizens.


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Turtle said:


> Actually, I think you may have just inadvertently isolated the key issue at play here: assumptions.
> 
> Geek, you assume that he is a "law abiding citizen", which is fair enough, as he has given no reason to suspect anything to the contrary. I remain open to the POSSIBILITY that he may not be, but will treat him as a "law abiding citizen" until I had reason to think otherwise.
> 
> ...


There are two points I would like to make in response: All of us are presumed innocent unless proven otherwise, so my assumption that a forum member is a law abiding citizen is the proper one. That is fundamental to a free society.

I don't assume all cops are evil. However, 1) there are some bad cops and an even larger number of incompetent cops. 2) my direct experience as well as everything I am exposed to says that LEO organizations do not adequately address issue 1, so the bad and incompetent cops continue in their roles, 3) I have no way of knowing whether a cop I meet is a good cop, bad cop, or incompetent cop. I must therefore be careful in all dealings with cops, even my own cousin.

If LEO organizations addressed the issue of weeding out bad or incompetent cops, the basis for trust would begin. Until then I expect the trust in LEOs will continue to decline.


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## rugster (Mar 2, 2014)

Turtle said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Yes, that is every cop's purpose in life: to infiltrate your family shindig and entrap you into making a confession. We often plot this while cackling in a darkened room and alternately rubbing our hands or twirling the ends of our outrageously pointed mustaches. Of course, all of this is secondary to our favorite activity, which is tying innocent women to railroad tracks.


Huh? :dunno:


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## rugster (Mar 2, 2014)

Geek999 said:


> If LEO organizations addressed the issue of weeding out bad or incompetent cops, the basis for trust would begin. Until then I expect the trust in LEOs will continue to decline.


Then there wouldn't be any cops! :teehee: Just joking.

Any attorney will tell you the same if a LEO starts asking you questions where are you going , coming from, where do you like, can I search you, your bag, your car, the answer should be no and you don't answer questions. This is willful interrogation and a way for the officer to investigate you to make a case anything you say can be viewed differently or in multiply ways to make that assumption.

beyond that Most LEO's are honest people but some are not.

Why not let a LEO searcher your car if you have nothing to hide? Here's a cop planting drugs in a car.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-allegedly-plants-small-bag-suspects-car.html

and in a business...
http://ushypocrisy.com/2013/08/21/p...frican-american-shop-owner-in-new-york-video/


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Way way back when I was in High School. Buddy had his car in the shop. So I picked him up on the way to school. Buddy wanted my spare car key so he wouldn't have to wait outside the car after school. OK.

After school my car was parked in a different parking space!? He confesses that he took my car along with friends into town for lunch. When they came back the original parking space was already filled. 

Now suppose that one of his friends forgets and left illegal drugs in my car. And later I get stopped for (whatever) and I consent to a search of my car? After all, I don't have anything to hide. I'm going to jail and car will be impounded.

And yes I continued to pickup my Buddy before school and no I didn't entrust him with a spare key again.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Planting of Evidence*



rugster said:


> Then there wouldn't be any cops! :teehee: Just joking.
> 
> Any attorney will tell you the same if a LEO starts asking you questions where are you going , coming from, where do you like, can I search you, your bag, your car, the answer should be no and you don't answer questions. This is willful interrogation and a way for the officer to investigate you to make a case anything you say can be viewed differently or in multiply ways to make that assumption.
> 
> ...


I was able to view the second tape of a "CI" planting evidence in the smoke shop.

This is the problem with CI's, they are only CI's because the police have jammed them up on valid charges and they offer to buy their way out of their own charges by giving up a bigger fish.

If they don't have a bigger fish, they may to create one.

That is apparently what took place here.

When the police view the security tape, they dropped all charges against the store owner and went after the CI, who had gone on the lam.

Cops get owned too. There are some cops who still pull stuff like this but they are the exception and not the rule.

I would have arrested anyone who I saw planting evidence.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

rf197 said:


> Don't call them if you need them either.


(1) Be polite.
(2) Call them if you need them. That's their job.
(3) Do not talk to them if they're investigating you, your actions or those in your family for a possible crime. Nothing good will come of it and yes, they will insinuate, lie and twist what you say to try to further their investigation.
(1) Again, be polite.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

BlueShoe said:


> (1) Be polite.
> (2) Call them if you need them. That's their job.
> (3) Do not talk to them if they're investigating you, your actions or those in your family for a possible crime. Nothing good will come of it and yes, they will insinuate, lie and twist what you say to try to further their investigation.
> (1) Again, be polite.


I gotta go with RF on this. If I need them for something I will go to the station. I don't want them around and won't call them.


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