# Evacuating Los Angeles. Is it possable?



## ROBIE (Jul 10, 2012)

My 3 year old son (Robie Jr.) and I were watching the old War of the Worlds (1953) and they show Los Angeles being evacuated as the Martians drew closer. 

That got me to thinking, would it be possalbe to evacuate the greater Los Angeles metroplex today if something super bad were to happen? 
Los Angeles is approximately 18 million people. Let that sink in between your ears for a second. 18 MILLION people that now have to pick up and leave for whatever reason. 

What would be so bad to make the people of LA pick up and leave in a hurry? 
Where would they/ could they go? What would you do if you lived down there? 

I say down there because I live in the high desert north of Los Angeles, still in LA county. 

What are your thoughts? (other than good ridden!)


Robie


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## drgnhntr37 (Apr 13, 2012)

When I drove a truck over the road, we would be in LA every week when you would leave on a Friday at 4 the mass exodus would be occurring it could take as long as 10 hours to go 30 miles and that would finally get you out of the greater LA area that was provided no wrecks happened. This is an every week thing.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

about the most "practical" reason to want to evacuate the entire LA region would have to be something slow moving, but predictable. 

An EarthQuake off Japan, and they know for a fact 18 hours later the Tsunami will be... I dunno, insert number here, 1000 feet tall when it hits the port? Even that probably wouldnt be enough to want to drain the entire city though, much less the whole county.

So how about, a tanker ship fire, loaded full of some kind of really nasty chemicals. maybe... 

Is it possible? I suppose so, if you had 18 hours advance notice. Look at the evacuation plans of New Orleans compared to Houston during Katrina. NO parked their evacuation bus fleet below sea level, oops! Is LA smarter or dumber than that?

I have doubts if it were anything fast moving that it would be difficult (read as: impossible) to evacuate the entire county. If it was a new volcano being born like in that movie... oh I forget the name right now but had Tommy Lee Jones and Don Cheadle in it. Was it simply called "Volcano"? doesnt matter. if it's something that is gonna happen all at once in a big hurry, a lot of people aren't gonna make it. Moving through traffic in and around LA is already a nightmare during a GOOD DAY!!! hahaha imagine the entire city trying to bug out at the same time. YIKES!


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

This is an interesting mental exercise.

A certain number would not leave no mater what. They will die in their own homes (maybe 30%-50%)

The ones that evacuate will clog the highways and will be stranded in the largest traffic jamb in history. I don't think it maters which way they go. 

The smartest would have seen it coming and be gone before SHTF. If you wait till it happens the only way out would be by small aircraft or boat.

There are probably 100's of reason to evacuate LA.

The most important thing to do is to have a plan so that there is no hesitation when it does happen.


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

The best evacuation plan is to not live there to begin with.

I was stationed at Nellis, outside of Las Vegas. We had a plan if the "Big One" hit LA. .We figured a tidal wave of folks, all empty handed, would hit town about 4 hours later. And we didn't want to be around...


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I imagine a significant percentage of the population doesn't even have a vehicle so they would have to be transported out via trains, planes, & buses. It would be a logistic nightmare. 

Where would they send them? Please, anywhere but Texas. 

What would I do if I lived there? That just wouldn't happen. I'm sure I would be thrown out within a week, they don't like my kind.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

They could not get out of the way if you gave them a week. There is no way you can evacuate a city of that size.


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## airdrop (Jan 6, 2012)

Well Robie if it got that bad Please step out of your house face LA and give them a hand salute good by for us


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I think there is no possible way to evacuate the population in 18, 24, 48 or even 96 hours. Look at the daily congestion of just commuters, as pointed out. Now add to that panicked folks, running out of gas, getting into accidents... Heck, ONE stalled car or an accident here on the 8 lane and traffic is backed up for miles, in BOTH directions! A few years ago we had a snow here, 1/4" turned to ice on all roads. Within a few hours it was melted but it took over 12 hours for traffic to move along. Folks ran out of gas, abandon their cars..... After the first hour folks got word and either stayed where they were or drove around it. Imagine if EVERYONE panicked and kept trying to escape???? Public transportation brings its own complications. You will always have the morons who will not just leave. "I'm bringing my grandmothers piano or I'm not going!"

You need to already be in your BOL or have enough to survive until time comes when you can get out. IF it is something like a tsunami there, or a volcano, or nuke plant disaster... well.. so be it. There WILL be major casualties. *I* can only plan for so many things where I am. I am prepared for the inevitable of NOT being able to escape also.

Funny story. We have lots of accidents here at commuting time. I travel a little of 4 and 6 lane but mostly 2 lane roads. I noticed blue lights and tail lights stopping ahead of me on Rt 50, north of I540 one day. I stopped in the line of traffic, that was slooooowly crawling along. Got to an intersection where I could make a right, skirt the accident and come out on RT 98 above it. I noticed a line of vehicles following me. I made the left, rights, to get to 98 and continued on as they did. It made me chuckle. So, a few months later a similar circumstance happened. I took a side road that winded around and came back out on RT 50, back the way we had come. I had about 10 cars following me. I pulled over into a strangers driveway, before I got to the intersection that would have locked me into going on 50. The folks all slowed down but kept on going. I backed out, backtracked and went about my way home. Evil? Perhaps. Funny? I sure thought so!


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Woody, you are evil! :rofl: 

To evacuate a city would require an orderly evacuation. Good luck with that!
The most affected areas would need to be evacuated first. Good luck with that.
The rich and elitists would disregard or ignore the rules, or bribe their way out.

Most people don't speak English, so the 75 foreign languages would need to simultaneously broadcast the message. 

Third worlders ignore basic instructions anyway, afterall, traffic laws are a mere suggestion to them. Good luck with that.

Politicians, PC bureaucrats and the incompetent administrators would screw up the orderly procedure anyway, good luck with that. 

Every automobile which is overladen and hasn't been properly maintained would block the freeways, third worlders would interfere with the relief/recovery/rescue efforts to clear the freeway and they ignore public safety anyway. Good luck with that.

Oh yeah, and the people who didn't fuel up and the traffic jam to get emergency groceries and gas and beer and the kids are acting up and someone looked at me and...(ad nauseum...) and then the shoot outs and the gang rivalries and the ethnic rivalries and inter-ethnic violence and the idiots and Good Luck with that.

And where do these people go to evacuate. Their "Evacuation/Relocation" site/center?

Otherwise, it's quite doable with a little LUCK!


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

VoorTrekker said:


> traffic laws are a mere suggestion to {no}them{/no} {yes}Dakine{/yes}. Good luck with that.


Fixed!! :2thumb:

but all joking aside, I agree completely with your post. I just found it funny that's how I react to ridiculous traffic (and other) stupid rules.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I managed to evacuate from Manhattan during emergencies, twice. So yes it can be done.

How long will it take, will everyone need to evacuate, what methods will the evacuation take, (planes, boats, surface transport) etc. are all open questions.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Pretty much, nope. Traffic jams, wrecks, break downs an runnin outa fuel gonna make one giant parkin lot. Most of em ain't gonna walk. They'll stand round waitin fer somebody ta come get em. Bunch of em gonna sit in there house waitin fer a fancy bus ta pick em up an move em. The rest will just sit there an do nothin.

There gonna be a few what got some marbles an already got different routes planned out fer leavin, but they be few an far between. I'd like ta see it from the air, on second thought, naw, I'll stay away from that whole zoo!


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Its simply not possible other than by boat. I suggest buying an affordable rubber dingie and some Oars


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> Its simply not possible other than by boat. I suggest buying an affordable rubber dingie and some Oars


something just occurred to me. That is NOT true!!!

you can buy an ultra light or if you have more expendable cash than that, an X experimental frame aircraft which is very small foot print half a garage, for example, and maybe 1 street worth of runway space to take off or land, and you can G.O.O.D. and be way out of reach of the mayhem and chaos in the freeway parking lots.

You need to invest several thousand dollars, but if it's a trip to Fiji or your eventual evac out of the city, which one do you think matters more? shop accordingly


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> ...I managed to evacuate from Manhattan during emergencies, twice. So yes it can be done...


Yeah? Manhattan? Twice? :scratch Well that just goes to show that if someone who doesn't know anything about surfing ("Apocalypse Now") can evacuate from an island 1/10 the size of Los Angeles because he is from ******* New Jersey!


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

If something 'super bad' were to happen in the Greater LA area, many would be dead or injured already and the freeways probably couldn't be used. Getting help in would be a massive effort. Just think what the last SF earthquake did...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/san-francisco-earthquake-remembered-24-years-gallery-1.1488727

Of course if there were several days of warning ahead of time before an 'event', then yeah I think it's possible.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

For real, getting out of the greater LA area is a completely different proposition than getting off manhatten, just in terms of shear size. Then theres the issue of being in the desert. Suppose you do get out.. you gotta get way out.. watef is pretty critical.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> Its simply not possible other than by boat. I suggest buying an affordable rubber dingie and some Oars


Small aircraft is still without hesitation the best evac method for the LA basin area. You could be completely out of the area in 1 hour. As soon as you reach 3000AGL you would be out of small arms fire. Be protected from viral and biological attack. No gang violence, no traffic jambs, and in just 2 hours you could be out of California.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

FatTire said:


> For real, getting out of the greater LA area is a completely different proposition than getting off manhatten, just in terms of shear size. Then theres the issue of being in the desert. Suppose you do get out.. you gotta get way out.. watef is pretty critical.


The point is if you want to overcome the challenge of evacuating from a bad situation, you can do it. It may be difficult. It may take you awhile. You can do it.

As a pilot, the idea of flying seems okay, but you need an undamaged runway for a typical small plane. First challenge is just getting to the airport. If you go the ultra-light route you are limited on passengers and luggage. If you are dealing with an earthquake scenario this may, or may not, work.

For something that doesn't take massive amounts of money and skill development I'd suggest bicycles.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Dakine said:


> something just occurred to me. That is NOT true!!!
> 
> you can buy an ultra light or if you have more expendable cash than that, an X experimental frame aircraft which is very small foot print half a garage, for example, and maybe 1 street worth of runway space to take off or land, and you can G.O.O.D. and be way out of reach of the mayhem and chaos in the freeway parking lots.
> 
> You need to invest several thousand dollars, but if it's a trip to Fiji or your eventual evac out of the city, which one do you think matters more? shop accordingly


The general Statement that it is simply not possible still holds.
Because the OP was asking for the totality of the area not just an individual.
And us res ponders have been mostly coming up with ways that might work for an individual.

Another reason why its not possible there is simple no place for these 18 million to go in the region.
It a low/nowater area.

Since LA is the center of the cancer of the reconquista we can only hope...


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

The answer for 18 million people is how quickly do they need to move? Let's take a bad earthquake scenario as an example. We had a similar situation in Japan with the tsunami/Fukashima recently. For those who were not killed in the initial destruction, the evacuation took time, but most eventually got out.

If you have food, water, etc. for a week, then you have a week to get out. Over the span of a week, you could get a lot of people out of the LA basin.


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## ROBIE (Jul 10, 2012)

Voortreker is right, there is and will be ALOT of thirdworlders who will make things worse than they are. But it will not be just them, the Hollywood liberals and entitlement crowds, politicians, and anyone who believes themselves to be better than you. :brickwall:

I can see the gooberment sending in the air force and the California national guard to help with an airlift, but even that will be a cluster f***!!

Anyone else ever try to fly out of LAX? The Burbank and Ontario airports will not be any better and any smaller air fields will be overtaken by the mass of idiots. The freeways? Good God! EVERYONE knows how bad our traffic is on a good day, a day when SHTF...:gaah:vract:
Even if they stop all incoming traffic and used all lanes for outbound, Satan himself will sit back and laugh knowing even he couldn't think of a worse hell to put us through!

Thankfully I have a small buffer separating me from the Los Angeles metroplex, the San Gabriel mountains. There are only 2 freeways into this little sand box: the interstate 15, which will get you to Barstow/ lost wages... I meant Las Vegas, and the interstate 14, just a 5 miniute drive from my house that will get you deeper into the desert. 
And as pointed out already, water will be an issue! It will be worth more than gold! I honestly would not be supprised if "someone" blocked both freeways with dead cars and road blocks just to keep the mass of idiots out of here. Not saying that "someone" is me... in fact it wont be me, I plan to be way on my way somewhere else by then. :2thumb:

So lets keep this up and put out some more ideas about what "could" happen and maybe what could or did happen where you might live. 


Robie


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> The point is if you want to overcome the challenge of evacuating from a bad situation, you can do it. It may be difficult. It may take you awhile. You can do it.
> 
> As a pilot, the idea of flying seems okay, but you need an undamaged runway for a typical small plane. First challenge is just getting to the airport. If you go the ultra-light route you are limited on passengers and luggage. If you are dealing with an earthquake scenario this may, or may not, work.
> 
> For something that doesn't take massive amounts of money and skill development I'd suggest bicycles.


Most small aircraft only need 1200-1500 feet to get airborne with max weight. I have taken off and landed on runways tore up for construction, taxiways, and the grass infields. You can find a way.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

As most of you have discussed, there are a lot of logistical problems with moving such a large population.

The first set of problems involves traffic control, people running out of gas or vehicles overheating and clogging the roads, little to no food and water for the trip, little regard as to where they pee and poop, not having a checklist of things they should have brought such as medications, and not having a place to go - or if they had a place could they get there with the amount of gas they already have in the tank because there won't be any place to get gas on the road.

The second set of problems revolves around where would you put that many people? Do they think they can wind up at the door of the nearest farm or ranch and say "Here I am..." which begs the question of "who are you?" Then the LA people will get all fussy britches when they're told to move along. Or the worst case scenario, IMHO, would be the gubment telling folks who were wise enough to live away from the city to take in a certain number of the city people and just deal with it.

As my fellow Texan stated earlier.... don't care where they go, just make sure it's not Texas.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Tweto said:


> Most small aircraft only need 1200-1500 feet to get airborne with max weight. I have taken off and landed on runways tore up for construction, taxiways, and the grass infields. You can find a way.


There aren't a lot of runways of any type in LA. If some of those are further damaged then you are in a world od hurt. I think I would use this approach opportunistically, not as a primary evacuation plan.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> There aren't a lot of runways of any type in LA. If some of those are further damaged then you are in a world od hurt. I think I would use this approach opportunistically, not as a primary evacuation plan.


I checked my sectional for LA and there are 28 airports in LA proper. Keep in mind that if I lived there I would have the plane at the closest airport to my house. From my sectional, it looks like there would never be an airport more then 7 miles from any area of the city.

For me, it would be my primary plan to escape the area.

For 99% of the population, they only think of commercial airports. It's not surprising to me that your perspective is a lack of runways in LA.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

I thin ifin I lived there (that ain't gonna happen!) my primary BOV would be a enduro motorcycle with a small trailer. Saddle bags, trunk pack, tank pack, maybe a back pack an the trailer ta carry extra fuel an such. With this set up ya should be able ta work yer way through the traffic snarls an such. If need be the trailer could be dumped. 

Thin bein, ya gotta have a few places ta go. I ain't overly familiar with the area, but ifin ya lived there, I'd spend some time checkin places out.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I thought L A was already a disaster area and people haven't left yet. I got out in '59. 

There are enough schools, parking lots, and other large flat areas for ultralights to take off from. The trick will be having a place to go to within your fuel capacity. That just gets you out, you might even have enough of these to get your family out but not the entire population.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Obviously some would get out no matter what. And some would stay no matter what the threat was that they heard about. 

If it needs to be evacuated then I would strongly suggest sending them all south into Mexico.


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## ROBIE (Jul 10, 2012)

I have a bad feeling that if you tried to use a small aircraft to leave when something that bad happens, you will be a target for everyone else! 

First, you have to get to the aircraft, then be able to use it without drawing way too much attention to it. 

If anyone else knows about your small aircraft, don't you think they would be hitting you up for a lift? If not flat out taking it from you? 

Then where would you go hoping to beat the refugees there? What about refueling? 

I think a small personal aircraft would be the best and fastest way out, you would need to do so before the SHTF, and without blowing OPSEC. 

And how many of us actually have some kind of small aircraft? 


Robie


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## Navajo (Mar 4, 2013)

I lived near it for three years...Apple Valley

And one year in the city... Pasadena

Seen plenty of time there on the roads. One accident and the place grinds to a crawl.

SHTF and mass exodus ??? forget about it, unless your the first one out.

And I got 26 years ago and haven't been back...


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## Cast-Iron (Nov 8, 2013)

Tweto said:


> Small aircraft is still without hesitation the best evac method for the LA basin area. You could be completely out of the area in 1 hour. As soon as you reach 3000AGL you would be out of small arms fire. Be protected from viral and biological attack. No gang violence, no traffic jambs, and in just 2 hours you could be out of California.


IMHO General Aviation is by far the best means to cover ground during a mass evacuation. Unless you were at the front of the pack, you might find yourself stranded hundreds of miles from anything. I figure gas supplies would quickly be depleted by the overwhelming surge in demand. There are just too many variables that I would have little to no control over. However a single engine aircraft would get a few folks up to a several hundred nautical miles of range without refueling. You could "radio ahead" to check for fuel availability before selecting an airport as a refueling stop. You would have some weight restrictions, but I think your increased odds for success more than offset what you would have to leave behind.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

ROBIE said:


> And how many of us actually have some kind of small aircraft?


We have a plane & Tweto has one, so that makes at least two of us just on this thread .

General aviation is actually quiet popular, there are tiny little airports covered with hangers everywhere where 40-70 year old men fly, talk about flying, work on planes & stand around staring at planes. They don't even have to actually go anywhere, they just fly to be flying :dunno:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Pandamonium*

It would be pandemonium to attempt to evacuate LA or any other large city in the wake of even a small disaster.

It is hard enough to leave any large city to go home at the end of a normal day during rush hour.

The people who say they intend to use the back roads are fooling themselves. Do you think you are the only one who thought about using the back roads ?

Some think they will just wait about three days and leave then. 
After a mass failed exodus , don't you think the roads may be blocked with abandoned vehicles.

Are you planning to hike? 
What about all the people who abandoned those vehicles? 
They have been on foot for three days and are now desperate and you have a high tech backpack loaded with goodies and camping gear .

If you aren't where you need to be right now , get there before all this happens.

The last place you want to be in on the road !


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

It would take a strongman (dictator-like power), willing security force, and the suspension of the rule of law, but if someone had the presence of mind you could evacuate the WILLING if you barred all private passenger vehicles (or vehicles with less than 7 passengers) from the roads and were able to coordinate ever form of mass transit in town along with empty tractor trailers, flat beds, etc..

I bet with enough forethought you could do it in 5-10 hours. LA has 2500 public buses and another 2500 school buses. If you shoot for 100 persons per bus that is 5 million people (if school were in session and you had no regard for reuniting students with families FIRST, then you could probably pack buses with even more than 100 kids?), add maybe another 1-2 million on private buses. If you told everyone at the airport, employees included to get onto planes theoretically you could get another .25 million out by air. So say you get a solid 7 milllion out depending where you need to take them I would bet that 2 trips in and out at full capacity along with those who get out via other means would empty the vast majority of the willing population of the city. 

Key to evacuation is forcing those on the street into buses, willingness to get traffic off the street by any means necessary (think parking in parks or on the sidewalk and the use of bulldozers) and a quick closure of inbound lanes and a reversal of all traffic outbount (6 maybe 8 lanes).


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> We have a plane & Tweto has one, so that makes at least two of us just on this thread .
> 
> General aviation is actually quiet popular, there are tiny little airports covered with hangers everywhere where 40-70 year old men fly, talk about flying, work on planes & stand around staring at planes. They don't even have to actually go anywhere, they just fly to be flying :dunno:


I'd love to get into aviation but I'm into soooo many hobbies already. and now looking for the land to buy. although... maybe that would be a nice way to get there in a pinch!


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

drgnhntr37 said:


> When I drove a truck over the road, we would be in LA every week when you would leave on a Friday at 4 the mass exodus would be occurring it could take as long as 10 hours to go 30 miles and that would finally get you out of the greater LA area that was provided no wrecks happened. This is an every week thing.


 been there done that, I would leave set at the truck stop in Ontario for a few hrs waiting for the traffic to get out of town, it was hard enough escaping from there 35 yrs ago when there was nothing going on, today it would be impossible.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Why would you want to?


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## Navajo (Mar 4, 2013)

partdeux said:


> Why would you want to?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That is so true...

yeah I have relatives that live there too....so don't whine...


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

Uh-Oh! My inner Libtard is coming out!!

[LIBTARD MODE=ON]
Oh, don't worry! Obama will save us! He CARES about EVERYTHING! He'll send food and water (Perrier, of course!) and medicine, and enough FEMA trailers for ALL OF US!! He won't be like Evil Bush who bombed the levees! He won't let us die, 'cuz, darn it, HE LOOKS LIKE US!!!! So we don't have to do NUTHIN' but lay back, crack open a beer, and watch Oprah until they come get us!
[LIBTARD MODE=OFF]


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I was part of the evacuation out of Houston(which is much smaller than LA) for a hurricane and it was beyond ridiculous...a 3 hour trip took me 20 hours and took many 30+ hours....road blockage wasn't a problem since when people broke down or ran out of gas other drivers "helped" them out of the way...2 lane roads became 4-5 lanes of outbound traffic...people were driving in ditches and through people's yards...gas was nowhere to be found for well over 200 miles...police were taking any extra fuel people had...people were selling gallons of water for 20-30 dollars a gallon...my suggestion for any evacuation is plenty of weapons, water, food, and enough extra fuel as you can possibly carry...in somewhere like LA prepare for the possibility of being on the road for a week...get a moped, small atv or small motorcycle and store it in the back of your vehicle in case abandoning your vehicle becomes necessary...bring ample camping supplies cuz you will be spending a few nights...be prepared for looters cuz if looters pop up after one day in Houston imagine a few days or a week in LA...look for a route the least amount of people would look to take even if it takes you way around where you plan to head...when you stop for the night get off the main road and find somewhere "off the beaten trail"...post sentries...bring along way more supplies than you could ever imagine needing including misc. repair items for your vehicle...after the hurricane my friend(owns 200 acres) woke up to find 3 people with campers attached to his electric pole at the front of his property...they tried to get physical with him when they were asked to leave(until he pulled his pistol)...my point is be prepared for anything and everything cuz more things than you could imagine will happen


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

The best bet is to go either ahead of or behind the crowd. On both occasions when I left Manhattan, a slight delay would have put me there overnight. With a hurricane warning, don't wait for an evacuation order.

As preppers we should all have BOBs ready, so we ought to be able to get moving 20-30 minutes ahead of anyone else. If you miss that window, then ride it out and go when possible.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

ROBIE said:


> I have a bad feeling that if you tried to use a small aircraft to leave when something that bad happens, you will be a target for everyone else!
> 
> First, you have to get to the aircraft, then be able to use it without drawing way too much attention to it. Driving the few miles to the airport or driving the 100 miles out of the area with few million other people, easy decision.
> 
> ...


The risks of driving out in a vehicle would be far more dangerous then your concerns of flying a small plane. When I started flying, one thing that became obvious is that very few people think of general aviation as any more then a hobby and is not a serious way to go some where. Even within the community there are 3 types of pilots. The ones that learn to fly and then stop flying so they can impress their friends and say they can fly, the second type are the ones that don't care about impressing anyone and make the decision to be a full member and buy an aircraft. The third are the ones that never talk about flying, don't have any desire to impress, but they consider the utility of there aircraft as necessity (a tool). This third type is the only ones that do allot of traveling. With a little experience with traveling by small aircraft all the concerns about your post would be nothing to worry about.


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