# Why are bankers committing suicide?



## ronald_stufflebeam

> The banker suicide wave that started in late January has now become an epidemic, and it seems to be focusing on one bank: JP Morgan.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-18/third-jpmorgan-banker-jumps-his-death-hong-kong-said-be-33-year-old-fx-trader


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## lazydaisy67

hmmm...what do they know that we don't?


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## hiwall

Some reports put the number of newly dead bankers at as many as twenty. ??????????????????


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## Tweto

Suicide? The news articles I've been reading is more in line with murder. When on banker is discovered on the side of the road with a bullet in his head and no firearm around or a man with 6-8 nails in his body from a pneumatic nail gun of the banker that jumped from the building but had just talked to his wife/girl friend about meeting for dinner 1 hour after he was thrown from the roof.

The count is now up to 8 or 9 dead (that we know of).

The speculation is that since all of these bankers are just support to the administration of the banks that their bosses are getting rid of the only employees that know whats going to happen.


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## goshengirl

Tweto, do you have some links for that info?


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## BillS

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/does-the-trail-of-dead-bankers-lead-somewhere


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## VoorTrekker

There will be no economic collapse until I get to Texas!


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## Grimm

VoorTrekker said:


> There will be no economic collapse until I get to Texas!


Can Roo and I come too?


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## UncleJoe

Tweto said:


> Suicide? The news articles I've been reading is more in line with murder...
> 
> ...The speculation is that since all of these bankers are just support to the administration of the banks that their bosses are getting rid of the only employees that know whats going to happen.


I've read a couple of those articles as well. One suggested that the deceased were planning on exposing what is going on behind the scenes. It's all speculation but it makes you wonder. :hmmm:


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## Caribou

One article I read a few days ago said a reporter that was working on this is also missing. Sorry, no link.


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## PamsPride

I agree! No economic collapse until I get onto my farm! I am working on it now...they need to give me a few more months! Like 6 at least!


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## Tweto

goshengirl said:


> Tweto, do you have some links for that info?


I have read several articles in the last few days about this. Sorry for not posting the articles. If I can find them again i will post.


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## Tweto

*Here is one of the recent articles.
*

Does The Trail Of Dead Bankers Lead Somewhere?
By Michael Snyder, on February 18th, 2014

Trail - Photo by Ws47What are we to make of this sudden rash of banker suicides? Does this trail of dead bankers lead somewhere? Or could it be just a coincidence that so many bankers have died in such close proximity? I will be perfectly honest and admit that I do not know what is going on. But there are some common themes that seem to link at least some of these deaths together. First of all, most of these men were in good health and in their prime working years. Secondly, most of these "suicides" seem to have come out of nowhere and were a total surprise to their families. Thirdly, three of the dead bankers worked for JP Morgan. Fourthly, several of these individuals were either involved in foreign exchange trading or the trading of derivatives in some way. So when "a foreign exchange trader" jumped to his death from the top of JP Morgan's Hong Kong headquarters this morning, that definitely raised my eyebrows. These dead bankers are starting to pile up, and something definitely stinks about this whole thing.

What would cause a young man that is making really good money to jump off of a 30 story building? The following is how the South China Morning Post described the dramatic suicide of 33-year-old Li Jie...

An investment banker at JP Morgan jumped to his death from the roof of the bank's headquarters in Central yesterday.

Witnesses said the man went to the roof of the 30-storey Chater House in the heart of Hong Kong's central business district and, despite attempts to talk him down, jumped to his death.

If this was just an isolated incident, nobody would really take notice.

But this is now the 7th suspicious banker death that we have witnessed in just the past few weeks...

- On January 26, former Deutsche Bank executive Broeksmit was found dead at his South Kensington home after police responded to reports of a man found hanging at a house. According to reports, Broeksmit had "close ties to co-chief executive Anshu Jain."

- Gabriel Magee, a 39-year-old senior manager at JP Morgan's European headquarters, jumped 500ft from the top of the bank's headquarters in central London on January 27, landing on an adjacent 9 story roof.

- Mike Dueker, the chief economist at Russell Investments, fell down a 50 foot embankment in what police are describing as a suicide. He was reported missing on January 29 by friends, who said he had been "having problems at work."

- Richard Talley, 57, founder of American Title Services in Centennial, Colorado, was also found dead earlier this month after apparently shooting himself with a nail gun.

- 37-year-old JP Morgan executive director Ryan Henry Crane died last week.

- Tim Dickenson, a U.K.-based communications director at Swiss Re AG, also died last month, although the circumstances surrounding his death are still unknown.

So did all of those men actually kill themselves?

Well, there is reason to believe that at least some of those deaths may not have been suicides after all.

For example, before throwing himself off of JP Morgan's headquarters in London, Gabriel Magee had actually made plans for later that evening...

There was no indication Magee was going to kill himself at all. In fact, Magee's girlfriend had received an email from him the night before saying he was finishing up work and would be home soon.

And 57-year-old Richard Talley was found "with eight nail gun wounds to his torso and head" in his own garage.

How in the world was he able to accomplish that?

Like I said, something really stinks about all of this.

Meanwhile, things continue to deteriorate financially around the globe. Just consider some of the things that have happened in the last 48 hours...

-According to the Bangkok Post, people are "stampeding to yank their deposits out of banks" in Thailand right now.

-Venezuela is coming apart at the seams. Just check out the photos in this article.

-The unemployment rate in South Africa is above 24 percent.

-Ukraine is on the verge of total collapse...

Three weeks of uneasy truce between the Ukrainian government and Western-oriented protesters ended Tuesday with an outburst of violence in which at least three people were killed, prompting a warning from authorities of a crackdown to restore order. Protesters outside the Ukrainian parliament hurled broken bricks and Molotov cocktails at police, who responded with stun grenades and rubber bullets.

-This week we learned that the level of bad loans in Spain has risen to a new all-time high of 13.6 percent.

-China is starting to quietly sell off U.S. debt. Already, Chinese U.S. Treasury holdings are down to their lowest level in almost a year.

-During the 4th quarter of 2013, U.S. consumer debt rose at the fastest pace since 2007.

-U.S. homebuilder confidence just experienced the largest one month decline ever recorded.

-George Soros has doubled his bet that the S&P 500 is going to crash. His total bet is now up to about $1,300,000,000.

For many more signs of financial trouble all over the planet, please see my previous article entitled "20 Signs That The Global Economic Crisis Is Starting To Catch Fire".

Could some of these deaths have something to do with this emerging financial crisis?

That is a very good question.

Once again, I will be the first one to admit that I simply do not know why so many bankers are dying.

But one thing is for certain - dead bankers don't talk.

Everyone knows that there is a massive amount of corruption in our banking system. If the truth about all of this corruption was to ever actually come out and justice was actually served, we would see a huge wave of very important people go to prison.

In addition, it is an open secret that Wall Street has been transformed into the largest casino in the history of the world over the past several decades. Our big banks have become more reckless than ever, and trillions of dollars are riding on the decisions that are being made every day. In such an environment, it is expected that you will be loyal to the firm that you work for and that you will keep your mouth shut about the secrets that you know.

In the final analysis, there is really not that much difference between how mobsters operate and how Wall Street operates.

If you cross the line, you may end up paying a very great price.


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## VoorTrekker

Well, Uncle Joe, if that is the case, it must be the new electronic RFID chip money system planned for the "NWO." Fortunately, Russian Federation and Big China will not comply, so there should be an alternative.


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## NATIVEBONES

What do they know that we don't ?????????????


Survive and Thrive


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## goshengirl

Thanks Tweto. I don't want to be a pain, I'm just really interested in reading these articles. I appreciate what you posted, and I need to do more digging.


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## Geek999

NATIVEBONES said:


> What do they know that we don't ?????????????
> 
> Survive and Thrive


If they're dead, not much.


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## hiwall

> If they're dead, not much.


:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash:


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## Sentry18

Quick! Have Miley Cyrus or Justin Bieber do something to distract the sheeple! Better yet have a pro athlete come out of the closet!


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## JayJay

goshengirl said:


> Tweto, do you have some links for that info?


http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cfp-radio

The first two hours are critical; must listen and I don't listen to a lot of airings, but this is crucial that we listen.


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## HardCider

Bankers are like lawyers. The only bank I really trust is my seed bank


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## Viking

Besides the $17 trillion debt to GDP ratio H.R.2847 FATCA will be kicking in full July 1, 2014, also I've other rumblings of the US$ cratering in March. I hate to say it but prep times may be very short. For the past year we've had the feeling of "Waiting for the other shoe to drop." Just a gut feeling added to the fact that the debt levels generated in this country add up to some sort of catastrophe which could be triggered by some seemingly simple act. I'd be really surprised if many here didn't admit that there is some point in time that it will be too late to prep for the grand SHTF. If we've done what we should have done, the family, friends and neighbors you've talked to, that think you're nuts, will at least have to say they were warned by you when life as they have known it shatters around them.


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## Gians

Some could be murder but it's a sad fact that suicides happen quite often and these could just be troubled people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide
"Approximately 0.5% to 1.4% of people die by suicide. Globally, as of 2008/2009, suicide is the tenth leading cause of death with about 800,000 to one million people dying annually, giving a mortality rate of 11.6 per 100,000 persons per year. Rates of suicide have increased by 60% from the 1960s to 2012,[87] with these increases seen primarily in the developing world. For every suicide that results in death there are between 10 and 40 attempted suicides."


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## oldasrocks

All I can say that its too bad they didn't take a few attorneys with them.


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## Dakine

Invest in precious metals... Gold, Silver and Copper Jacketed Lead!!! (food is good too!)


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## cnsper

It's all O and his minions. They are having the CIA or his Chicago connections do all the wet work. This is a cover up that goes to the very roots of banking in this country. These people are a secret society that will do anything to keep themselves out of jail and O in office. This is not the end, you will see more shortly in the coming weeks.













Gotcha....


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## Dakine

VoorTrekker said:


> There will be no economic collapse until I get to Texas!


I concur... all this "the dollar will crater" stuff is hereby on hold! you just cancel all of that stuff for now.

I still have a few things I want to get sorted out first!


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## jeff47041

oldasrocks said:


> All I can say that its too bad they didn't take a few attorneys with them.


I thought that, but politicians:wave:


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## Magus

BillS said:


> http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/does-the-trail-of-dead-bankers-lead-somewhere


Guess who else is dying off in droves?
molecular biologists and scientists who deal with viruses.:eyebulge:

Stuff is SERIOUSLY getting WTF out here!


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## Tweto

Magus said:


> Guess who else is dying off in droves?
> molecular biologists and scientists who deal with viruses.:eyebulge:
> 
> Stuff is SERIOUSLY getting WTF out here!


I have been following the deaths of molecular biologists also. Another one of their craft was killed at the Nairobi shopping center in Sept 2013. The terrorist carefully went through every customer at the shopping center and separated the Americans from the locals. When they found this woman that was a world renown biologist. They emptied a whole magazine into her. the other people their that witnessed it said that as soon as they found her and assassinated her they left.

Her specialty was working on finding a vaccine for the Ebola virus.

It's amazing that this was never pointed out in the US news major media.


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## Hooch

seems lots of top military and special forces folks been having lots of "accidents" or "suicides" the last few years too...


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## Tweto

Add to this the top 3 or 4 STRATCOM officers in charge of the nuclear weapons that have been fired in the last 6 months. They were replaced with officers unknown to the ones that were re leaved.


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## LincTex

Magus said:


> Guess who else is dying off in droves?... molecular biologists and scientists who deal with viruses.


Do you have any links you can share?


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## Tweto

LincTex said:


> Do you have any links you can share?


Go to StevenQuayle.com

top right of the page says "dead scientists"

Sorry tried to drag it here with out success.


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## NATIVEBONES

Wow


Survive and Thrive


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## camo2460

NATIVEBONES said:


> Wow
> 
> Survive and Thrive


NativBones/moondancer, you may be able to fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Not only did you show your true colors in another thread, but you also deliberately misled people with your phony snake photo. You have no credibility here, or with me, so go away.


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## GrinnanBarrett

I shared this post with a couple of friends (both of whom were high up in the banking world, Sr VPs of two of the MEGA banks). both are now "retired" and both are Survivalists. this is not a joke. I have known these guys for over forty years and thirty years respectively. One owns a survival store and is doing quite well the other lives on forty acres far from the city. Both are living off the grid as far as power, water and food are concerned. 

They were both not surprised by the deaths. The Markets are way over valued, banks are overextended in bad loans and poor investments, one mega bank failure would be like a domino toppling over all the rest. We no longer live in a US economy. We are a world economy and the whole thing is like a house made of cards. 

I just liquidated about 85 percent of our investment holdings. Retirement funds are another matter. None of us can control our retirement from companies we worked at other than to diversify them. Many bankers are just plain scared to death. They live on the edge. If the economy collapses they have no where to run. 

Suicides will not be just in the banking area. Consider the folks at Enron when it went under. I know one guy working as a stocker at Walmart. Before the Enron collapse he was a multimillionaire. Today he lives on less than $12 an hour and his holdings are wiped out. He told me that even now he still thinks about ending it all. This is a guy who lived in a two million dollar home and went from that to living in a shelter. GB


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## LincTex

GrinnanBarrett said:


> Many bankers are just plain scared to death. They live on the edge. If the economy collapses they have no where to run.


If they are that "aware" ..... they need to get out NOW before its too late.


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## Viking

GrinnanBarrett thanks for passing this on to us. I frequently say that I have a feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop, I think it's a feeling of waiting for whatever trigger event happens that will set in motion the house of cards to fall. I think it will be something so simple as to surprise even we that know things are going to happen. I believe what is to come will take our breath away at the enormity of it all. I do sorrow for those who are unwilling to believe or listen to the things we say, so we will have to harden ourselves to not falling apart because it will be heart breaking.


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## Dixie

The 28 year old CEO of Bitcoin died today of "un natural" causes.


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## Dakine

Dixie said:


> The 28 year old CEO of Bitcoin died today of "un natural" causes.


I read that she died several days ago and they are holding off ruling it suicide until toxicology reports come back.


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## Dixie

The post said she died today but knowing the media, she was probably found today.


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## readytogo

*Living with a mortal sin is not easy*

These different kinds of people are going to have different ways of dealing with the stress of capital vices and for them the only way out is the selfish way, suicide , to many the coward's way.


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## BillS

readytogo said:


> These different kinds of people are going to have different ways of dealing with the stress of capital vices and for them the only way out is the selfish way, suicide , to many the coward's way.


That's totally wrong. Those people are being murdered because they know too much. The banksters are tying up loose ends.


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## Geek999

Excuse me while I get my tin foil hat. You can't work in a bank if you have any sort of criminal record. So now we make the jump to "banksters" are bumping each other off? That is absurd.


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## bkt

Geek999 said:


> Excuse me while I get my tin foil hat. You can't work in a bank if you have any sort of criminal record. So now we make the jump to "banksters" are bumping each other off? That is absurd.


Granted, this stuff usually occurs at a pretty high level, but HFTs, flash-crashes via naked short sales and other commodity manipulations stand to make the manipulator very rich very quickly by employing an immoral, unethical and often outright illegal process - and we're talking hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars per event. Given we _know_ there are people doing this, is it a stretch to suggest maybe some bankers are being murdered for what they know? No, not at all. People have been murdered for knowing a lot less.

That said, do we have any proof? Well, probably not. But the guy who recently allegedly committed suicide with a nail gun...that seems a mite unlikely.

I choose to believe what I know to be true but only strongly suspect certain other things I cannot prove.


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## Viking

Geek999 said:


> Excuse me while I get my tin foil hat. You can't work in a bank if you have any sort of criminal record. So now we make the jump to "banksters" are bumping each other off? That is absurd.


It's not the banksters bumping each other off, it's like the Vincent Foster kind of thing, so called committing suicide when actually he was killed somewhere else and dumped in a convenient place to look like it was suicide. False flag operations and no one really checks to see if it was a murder because all the "evidence" seems to point to a suicide.


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> Granted, this stuff usually occurs at a pretty high level, but HFTs, flash-crashes via naked short sales and other commodity manipulations stand to make the manipulator very rich very quickly by employing an immoral, unethical and often outright illegal process - and we're talking hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars per event. Given we _know_ there are people doing this, is it a stretch to suggest maybe some bankers are being murdered for what they know? No, not at all. People have been murdered for knowing a lot less.
> 
> That said, do we have any proof? Well, probably not. But the guy who recently allegedly committed suicide with a nail gun...that seems a mite unlikely.
> 
> I choose to believe what I know to be true but only strongly suspect certain other things I cannot prove.


You are mixing legal and illegal processes. It is not useful to mix the two for two reasons: 1) You are discussing an industry where the vast bulk of what goes on is legal. There is some illegal activity, e.g. Madoff, but the vast bulk of what goes wrong is quite legal. 2) what is legal is constantly being changed, resulting in massive unintended consequences. Much of what goes on in financial services has inherent risk. If you make a loan there is a risk the borrower will not pay it back. If you now layer an ever changing set of rules on top of that inherent risk, sooner or later you will get bad results.

What we have done is subjected our financial services sector to that perpetually changing regulatory environment and then acted like all the bankers are criminals when the result wasn't what we hoped. Unfortunately, we are still doing that and I see little prospect for a better economy until we stabilize the regulatory environment and recognize that banking is a service, just like any other service and quit acting like making a loan is a criminal activity.


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## bkt

I'm proposing that immoral and unethical activities which may be legal, combined with some activities that are very likely illegal could be a motive for some people who might be concerned in the extreme if other people brought these activities to light to silence those other people permanently.

Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, good or just.


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> I'm proposing that immoral and unethical activities which may be legal, combined with some activities that are very likely illegal could be a motive for some people who might be concerned in the extreme if other people brought these activities to light to silence those other people permanently.
> 
> Just because something is legal doesn't make it right, good or just.


You'll need to describe what you think is an immoral or unethical, but legal, banking activity for that to make any sense.


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## bkt

I thought I mentioned a few. If others are also perplexed, I'll be happy to elaborate.


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> I thought I mentioned a few. If others are also perplexed, I'll be happy to elaborate.


You mentioned a mixed bag of legal and illegal activities. Are you saying the legal activities are immoral or unethical? If that is what you are claiming, I'd like you to pick one or more legal activities and explain why you think it is immoral or unethical. In other words, yes please elaborate.


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## bkt

I mentioned high-frequency trading and naked short sales for the purpose of commodity (and market) manipulation. In some contexts, both can be legal. In others, they can be used to outright manipulate. In no context is it right or good, but that's a subjective call I suppose.

If you are looking for a detailed analysis of misdeeds of financial institutions and proof of market and commodity manipulation over the last few years, I'll gladly refer you to zerohedge.com and gata.org to start; there's no shortage of detailed information on those sites to keep you busy a while.

The purpose of my post was not to obfuscate or befuddle; merely to suggest that given there very certainly are shenanigans going on in banks and other financial institutions, the potential that some of these poor souls who have met with an untimely demise may have been killed by people who do not want their secrets shared.

As I said before, there's no proof that has come to light as yet that I know of. It's mere speculation, but arguably plausible.


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> I mentioned high-frequency trading and naked short sales for the purpose of commodity (and market) manipulation. In some contexts, both can be legal. In others, they can be used to outright manipulate. In no context is it right or good, but that's a subjective call I suppose.
> 
> If you are looking for a detailed analysis of misdeeds of financial institutions and proof of market and commodity manipulation over the last few years, I'll gladly refer you to zerohedge.com and gata.org to start; there's no shortage of detailed information on those sites to keep you busy a while.
> 
> The purpose of my post was not to obfuscate or befuddle; merely to suggest that given there very certainly are shenanigans going on in banks and other financial institutions, the potential that some of these poor souls who have met with an untimely demise may have been killed by people who do not want their secrets shared.
> 
> As I said before, there's no proof that has come to light as yet that I know of. It's mere speculation, but arguably plausible.


Manipulation is always illegal under US law (with one very specific exception), so any manipulation would not be an example of something legal.

Naked short sales are a rather arcane concept but have been contrary to market rules since prior to the crisis. Note that the rules regarding short sales changed in 2007. Prior to that short sales would have been limited by the uptick rule and naked short selling was not a factor until that rule change. Despite the press at the time, it is unclear whether there were any naked short sales that were more than clerical errors and the clerical errors have since been eliminated as firms have developed systems to prevent naked short sales. This is an example of the changing rules that I mentioned. If you know someone is engaging in naked short selling today then you should report them to the SEC immediately. Personally, I think the uptick rule was more effective than the naked short sale rule.

High frequency trading is a recent phenomenon, but it is simply very fast trading with the aid of a computer. It does provide liquidity to the market that helps facilitate getting a trade done that might otherwise prove difficult. It is legal at this time and I fail to see how it is immoral or unethical, though we may ultimately get some rules affecting it regardless.


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## bkt

Using HFT to manipulate stocks and commodities has been going on for at least a few years. Consider LIBOR, ForEx and major banks caught manipulating markets and in particular gold (and silver). And of course this is not limited to U.S. banks or citizens; Germany's Bafin is a good example of a foreign entity getting caught.

Foreign exchanges, mortgages, energy, Libor and precious metals are and have been manipulated. We know this; this isn't the unfounded notion of some tinfoil hat-wearing freak. The amounts of currency involved are enormous. It would be wonderful, indeed, if governments and the various regulatory commissions that oversee trades actually put a stop to all this.

We know illegal activity is and has been taking place.

We know the sums of currency are large.

We know people may lose everything and may very well end up in prison if they are caught.

Ergo, it is plausible - but not proven fact - that some or all of these bankers were killed for what they knew.


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> Using HFT to manipulate stocks and commodities has been going on for at least a few years. Consider LIBOR, ForEx and major banks caught manipulating markets and in particular gold (and silver). And of course this is not limited to U.S. banks or citizens; Germany's Bafin is a good example of a foreign entity getting caught.
> 
> Foreign exchanges, mortgages, energy, Libor and precious metals are and have been manipulated. We know this; this isn't the unfounded notion of some tinfoil hat-wearing freak. The amounts of currency involved are enormous. It would be wonderful, indeed, if governments and the various regulatory commissions that oversee trades actually put a stop to all this.
> 
> We know illegal activity is and has been taking place.
> 
> We know the sums of currency are large.
> 
> We know people may lose everything and may very well end up in prison if they are caught.
> 
> Ergo, it is plausible - but not proven fact - that some or all of these bankers were killed for what they knew.


As I stated, any manipulation would be illegal under US law. If you have any knowledge of manipulation and have not reported it to the proper regulatory agency then you are guillty of obstruction of justice.

High frequency trading is being scrutinized heavily, but there have been no serious allegations of illegal activities in this area. If you have any reason to believe that any manipulation is occurring you should be discussing it with the S.E.C.

The actions around LIBOR mid-crisis were in some cases at the request of regulators. Unfortunately the industry has a history of regulators declaring previously normal activities as improper after the fact. Standards overseas are also different from the US. Activities can be legal in one country and not in another country. Manipulation outside the US may be legal depending on what activity occurred and where it occurred.

The fact that the amounts are large is irrelevant to the legality or morality of the activity.

You still have not named a single financial product or service that is legal, but in some fashion immoral. You keep coming back to "manipulation" which is illegal in the US. You claim that manipulation has occurred in a variety of markets, but manipulation is illegal in every market you mention. I think you will also find that the number of cases that you can come up with post-crisis is miniscule and cases from the crisis we already know have been difficult to prosecute because most of what occurred was either bad judgment or government mandate, not illegal or immoral.


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## bkt

Being cognizant of reports and findings of illegal activities posted on myriad news sites does not make one complicit.

There have been plenty of allegations of illegal manipulations via HFT by people who observe the before-and-after results. Whether or not regulators are on top of these issues or choose to prosecute is another matter.

The events of Libor are indefensible. Period.

HFT is legal when done in a way that does not manipulate stocks, commodities or markets, but it is immoral and unethical. As I said before, that's subjective. Using HFT to suppress gold and silver prices in paper derivative markets may technically be legal but it artificially deflates the value of both paper and physical. Done too much, it can cause decoupling which would torpedo the paper market and cause a spike in physical.

Here is a pretty good explanation of the problems with HFT by Mark Cuban in which it is explained how HFT gives traders a significant edge over other traders. Legal? Yes, for now. Ethical/moral? Not in my opinion.

My contribution to this thread has gone on as far as I care to take it. Initially, I sought merely to suggest murder rather than suicide might be plausible. Subsequently I explained my position. If, in your opinion, it falls short or is not to your liking, well....


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## Geek999

bkt said:


> Being cognizant of reports and findings of illegal activities posted on myriad news sites does not make one complicit.
> 
> There have been plenty of allegations of illegal manipulations via HFT by people who observe the before-and-after results. Whether or not regulators are on top of these issues or choose to prosecute is another matter.
> 
> The events of Libor are indefensible. Period.
> 
> HFT is legal when done in a way that does not manipulate stocks, commodities or markets, but it is immoral and unethical. As I said before, that's subjective. Using HFT to suppress gold and silver prices in paper derivative markets may technically be legal but it artificially deflates the value of both paper and physical. Done too much, it can cause decoupling which would torpedo the paper market and cause a spike in physical.
> 
> Here is a pretty good explanation of the problems with HFT by Mark Cuban in which it is explained how HFT gives traders a significant edge over other traders. Legal? Yes, for now. Ethical/moral? Not in my opinion.
> 
> My contribution to this thread has gone on as far as I care to take it. Initially, I sought merely to suggest murder rather than suicide might be plausible. Subsequently I explained my position. If, in your opinion, it falls short or is not to your liking, well....


Manipulation, a term you are using a lot, has a very specific legal meaning. The term is frequently misused in the press. If you are using the term properly you should be discussing it with regulators. I suspect you are throwing the term around without knowing it's proper meaning. For instance, it is very common to confuse market making with manipulation. Manipulation is illegal. Market making is necessary to a functioning market.

You still haven't described what about these products and services can be simultaneously legal, but immoral. If HFT is being used to manipulate prices, it is illegal. If it isn't being used in that fashion how is it immoral?

What I don't like is people making wild accusations about an entire industry that probably has a higher standard of legality, regulation and ethics than most others based on nothing more than some biased news reporting and a distaste for large sums of money.

I have worked in the industry and I know how hard firms struggle to complly with all the rules that keep changing and the constant press assaults. The crisis we experienced was due to a set of boneheaded rules with incredible unintended consequences. The recovery is being hampered by a prevailing attitude of "blame the banks" rather than recognition of the true causesof the crisis, resulting in tight credit conditions that need to be improved for the economy to grow.

Until the public starts to recognize the service that banks provide, expect lousy economic conditions to continue.


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