# What the Heck! **** on Both Tires



## Meerkat

Something is running down on the tires on Shorty.I think its cler oil or gear fluid,maybe brakes or even rear end ,says hubby.
These are big double axel tires on this International bus .Also the van decided to fall apart after we sold the car.  .But I'm glad we did'nt sell it to some poor person ,but mad they both went out together leaving us stranded in the woods for awhile.
Son came down and jelped fix the van,it was u-joints and brake shoes that needed adjusting.Who'd think that a brake shoe can make you think the whole thing is about to shimmy apart ?.
Anyone have an idea whats causing the leaking onto both inside tires on this bus ? It a Thomas built body 24' bus with a Freightliner or International frame I think .


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## Nadja

Rear axel seals ? Or possible the brake cylinders


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## Meerkat

Nadja said:


> Rear axel seals ? Or possible the brake cylinders


 Thanks Nadja,maybe we can take tires off when son or SNl comes for visit.We filled it up witrh deisel to make one more trip then noticed the leak.
:flower:


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## Immolatus

Im no expert, but the brakes would be my first guess.


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## partdeux

wipe it with a white tissue and report the fluid color


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## Meerkat

Immolatus said:


> Im no expert, but the brakes would be my first guess.


 I hope what ever it is its the easiest one to fix.:wave:


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## Meerkat

partdeux said:


> wipe it with a white tissue and report the fluid color


 Bass guy from Deep Purple band is on radio,hes 66,Hush Hush .:congrat:

Back to subject, I'll do this and let you know the color.We think its clear,but not sure.I've already been under the bus taking out all those seats,but still affraid to get under it .:wave:


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## BillT

I agree, either the Axel Seals are leaking or the Wheel Cylinders on the Brakes. Let us know the color, as mentioned, but also check the Master Cylinder. If there is a good size leak, the Rear Pot of the Dual Master Cylinder will be down. Not only will this be another tell-tale sign, but you'll want to refill it before you drive it anywhere. Hopefully it isn't down too much. If it went dry, you will have to bleed the brakes.

If you have a serious leak, it would be best not to drive it at all till you get it fixed. 

Bill


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## Tirediron

Before you tear anything apart, check the brake fluid level (under the hood) and the gear oil level in the rear axle. If both are ok there is a slim chance that during rainy/ moist weather, moisture gathered in the rear drums and is washing brake dust out. not likely, but most times both sides don't leak at once, and it is even rarer for brake wheel cylinders to start passing fluid at the same time. Another thing to check is the rear axle vent , if it is plugged pressure from heat could force oul out of the housing thru the seals.


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## Meerkat

BillT said:


> I agree, either the Axel Seals are leaking or the Wheel Cylinders on the Brakes. Let us know the color, as mentioned, but also check the Master Cylinder. If there is a good size leak, the Rear Pot of the Dual Master Cylinder will be down. Not only will this be another tell-tale sign, but you'll want to refill it before you drive it anywhere. Hopefully it isn't down too much. If it went dry, you will have to bleed the brakes.
> 
> If you have a serious leak, it would be best not to drive it at all till you get it fixed.
> 
> Bill


 Thanks,we only moved it around the yard to keep the tires in good condition and the engne going.it starts right up first try.its been a good ride for past 6 years .When we first bought it we took it to truck stop had shocks,bushings,bearings,king pins,ball joints and 6 new tires about $ 4,000 on it.
Not to speak of all the inside work to convert it into motorhome.
I just went out there and got the color,its a dingy loking yellow .after getting under it I noticed it looks like the stuff has been slung on the rear end axel housing and tires.
it has ben roaring louder on last couple trips .


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## Meerkat

Hubby wants to know if we have to take the housing cover off and remove the shaft out of the spider gears to release axels ? he has worked on autos but not bus.he will supervise the hard work when one of the men show up to help .


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## Tirediron

Meerkat said:


> Hubby wants to know if we have to take the housing cover off and remove the shaft out of the spider gears to release axels ? he has worked on autos but not bus.he will supervise the hard work when one of the men show up to help .


no don't have to remove the spider pin, the axles are full floating, EI there are 2 tapered roller bearings in the hubs, kind of like a front wheel bearing set up.
the drive axles bolt to the hub and can be removed with the tires still on the bus. the hubs, drums ,wheels and tires can be removed as a unit, after the stub axle nut is removed,usually the best way to do this is to slide them on greased plywood.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> no don't have to remove the spider pin, the axles are full floating, EI there are 2 tapered roller bearings in the hubs, kind of like a front wheel bearing set up.
> the drive axles bolt to the hub and can be removed with the tires still on the bus. the hubs, drums ,wheels and tires can be removed as a unit, after the stub axle nut is removed,usually the best way to do this is to slide them on greased plywood.


 Sorry I did'nt know , but hubby said it does'nt have hubs,it has rotors,disc brakes all around.he said to thank you for your help too . :flower:


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## Meerkat

Master cylinders full,rear ends full.[Having trouble posting so will be short] Discs brakes .Oil and water in inside tire on both sides.
Can yall help us again ?


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## Tirediron

If the rear axle housing has a drain plug, loosten it until water or oil comes out between the threads, if it is water let it run out until oil starts to follow it, leave it for a couple of days, then try it again. if you get just oil , top up the axle oil level , clean the crapp off of the tires and wheels with brakeclean and check to see if the axle breather vent is plugged. IF the **** is not getting on to the brake surfaces and the wheel bearings seem tight try driving it a bit to see if it still leaks, otherwise the hubs (not drums) have to come off and the seals replaced.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> If the rear axle housing has a drain plug, loosten it until water or oil comes out between the threads, if it is water let it run out until oil starts to follow it, leave it for a couple of days, then try it again. if you get just oil , top up the axle oil level , clean the crapp off of the tires and wheels with brakeclean and check to see if the axle breather vent is plugged. IF the **** is not getting on to the brake surfaces and the wheel bearings seem tight try driving it a bit to see if it still leaks, otherwise the hubs (not drums) have to come off and the seals replaced.


 Thanks for the help. the **** is on the brake shoes and all around the area. We had to hurry and put the tires back on because the 5 jacks we had under it were starting to slip !.One was a 2,1x2 ton but the van jack is the only one that would life it. I'm having trouble posting on reply so it takes a few tried to reply.


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## Meerkat

BTW,its a 1991 International with a Thomas body or frame .
We will check the vent , do you know where its at on the axel? We did'nt see one when checkign for leaks,dose'nt mean we did'nt miss it though.
We will get the brakeclean at parts store next trip too.


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## Tirediron

The vent should be on the top of the axle housing where it starts to taper from the third member to the axle tube , If you can get a make tag number off of the axle, I can prolly find a link to a service manual.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> The vent should be on the top of the axle housing where it starts to taper from the third member to the axle tube , If you can get a make tag number off of the axle, I can prolly find a link to a service manual.


 Spicer SN 09290b,Model -F155
029AF 104-2
1651187C91
He did'nt see a vent yet.
It was a school bus last used in 2005,we have had it since then.Put 10,000 miles on it.But from what i know they took good care of the buses .It now has 220,119 miles on it now.


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## Tirediron

Meerkat said:


> Spicer SN 09290b,Model -F155
> 029AF 104-2
> 1651187C91
> He did'nt see a vent yet.
> It was a school bus last used in 2005,we have had it since then.Put 10,000 miles on it.But from what i know they took good care of the buses .It now has 220,119 miles on it now.


Hereis a link to a spicer parts manual that should work, it is PDF
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXIP-8663.pdf
hope this helps


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## VUnder

Does it have the electric/hydraulic parking brakes? Those could be leaking. I assume it has hydraulic brakes. If it has the fluid parking brakes, that could be the problem. Also, if you had new bearings put in the rear, maybe they didn't get them tight enough, which would leave them loose, and it will eat the seal up on the inside of the hub, and you will be getting gear oil on the inside of the rear tires. Jack it up and try to wiggle the wheel setup. If it moves more that just a wee little bit, the the bearings are too loose. Maybe they didn't put the locking tabs in properly on the spindle nuts. I have seen those things put in wrong many times. This is serious business, if the nuts are loose, you can run a wheel off, or it can ruin your housing because the seal surface on the axle tube will be ruined and it will always leak from now on. Calipers hardly ever leak. But, you can get kits for them. Just did an F700 that had a rear end problem. With it being a bus, it may just have a transmission parking brake.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> Hereis a link to a spicer parts manual that should work, it is PDF
> http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXIP-8663.pdf
> hope this helps


 Thank you so much for all your help but I can't load up the site,don't worry about it though,we are taking a break off the bus for awhile.
We dried off the tires and took it for a ride to the vets 'about 30 Mi.round trip.It did ok until right before we got home,something was smoking.
Brakes worked fine but hubby thinks it was the maufold may be leaking now,I said to heck with that!:surrender: Bury the damn thing and use it for a storm shelter.Of course I know we can't do that with all the parts on it anyway.
We will get back to it later .:flower:


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> Hereis a link to a spicer parts manual that should work, it is PDF
> http://www2.dana.com/pdf/AXIP-8663.pdf
> hope this helps





VUnder said:


> Does it have the electric/hydraulic parking brakes? Those could be leaking. I assume it has hydraulic brakes. If it has the fluid parking brakes, that could be the problem. Also, if you had new bearings put in the rear, maybe they didn't get them tight enough, which would leave them loose, and it will eat the seal up on the inside of the hub, and you will be getting gear oil on the inside of the rear tires. Jack it up and try to wiggle the wheel setup. If it moves more that just a wee little bit, the the bearings are too loose. Maybe they didn't put the locking tabs in properly on the spindle nuts. I have seen those things put in wrong many times. This is serious business, if the nuts are loose, you can run a wheel off, or it can ruin your housing because the seal surface on the axle tube will be ruined and it will always leak from now on. Calipers hardly ever leak. But, you can get kits for them. Just did an F700 that had a rear end problem. With it being a bus, it may just have a transmission parking brake.


 Yall are so helpful and I appreciate all the help but we are taking a break from the bus because its turning into too much to keep on it at the time,and I don't want to take advantage or yall or run you off,hehe.:flower:
Excuse me,I was trying to multi quote.


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## VUnder

I do that stuff everyday. Left out at five this morning and headed to Shreveport and picked up a well screen, drilling mud, well casing, thread coat, and hauled it all back up here. Have a few water wells to drill over the next few weeks. Dropping two fuel tanks in the morning, welding up a drill bit, repacking a cylinder on a loader. If it is something that I can help anyone with, I am glad to be able to help, as I get plenty of help with the things I need help with.


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## Meerkat

VUnder said:


> I do that stuff everyday. Left out at five this morning and headed to Shreveport and picked up a well screen, drilling mud, well casing, thread coat, and hauled it all back up here. Have a few water wells to drill over the next few weeks. Dropping two fuel tanks in the morning, welding up a drill bit, repacking a cylinder on a loader. If it is something that I can help anyone with, I am glad to be able to help, as I get plenty of help with the things I need help with.


 Thanks again V.:flower:

Well we are back to the bus now.A man saw us in the parking lot of MCDonalds and asked what we would take for the bus.We were sitting there letting the smoking left rear wheel cool off.
Hubby thinks its the caliper leaking,but not sure.There is also some fluid on the other side that looks and smells the same.But it has'nt started smoking yet.
Its a 1991 international,thomas body,7.5 diesel,disk brakes front and rear.It was a'shorty'school bus we converted into a camper.


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## VUnder

If it has those German brakes, you aren't supposed to rebuild the wheel cylinders on the rear. they sell you a new backing plate with the new cylinder already on it. Expensive too. They do that so that no school kids are riding around on worked over brakes. I don't see anything wrong with taking down, cleaning, and putting back together. Does your bus have the hydraulic parking brakes on it?


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## Meerkat

VUnder said:


> If it has those German brakes, you aren't supposed to rebuild the wheel cylinders on the rear. they sell you a new backing plate with the new cylinder already on it. Expensive too. They do that so that no school kids are riding around on worked over brakes. I don't see anything wrong with taking down, cleaning, and putting back together. Does your bus have the hydraulic parking brakes on it?


 Not sure about the parking brakes.:dunno:.They have a handle on them you pull down to park and lift up to go.
Are the calipers in cylinder?Hubby is outside now so I'll ask him later.Thanks V.Soon as our son comes down we will take them off and see what is going on.He took them off once before to chack bearings I think.Did'nt see anything wrong.


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## Tirediron

I think that we have determined that this bus has disc brakes on the rear, so the calipers could be hanging up and causing brake drag, the **** is either diff oil or brake fluid, but enough brake fluid to coat the tires would mean a large volume fluid loss from the master cylinder. If the calipers are hanging up they could possibly be taken apart and cleaned IF the price for new or reman calipers is too high.


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## Meerkat

Hi,this is Kats husband.My son and I will be doing the work.You guys have been helpful and we appreciate it.

My son took the rear wheels completely off an could 'nt find a leak or get any play shaking them before taking them off.Looking at the calipers then they looked fine and we could'nt find where the fluid or grease was coming from.Its puzzeling the way the grease and fluid appears on the rim and tire, yet the master cylender and the rear end fluid are staying full.I was only able to add one pint of gear oil to rear end each time I've tried.Is it possible that the rear end has an over flow I did'nt see?We were taking a little beach trip the first time the left rear wheel rodar heated up and smoked like crazy.Then coming home it did'nt do it.The next time a few days ago it did it again then coming home it did'nt.


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## Tirediron

As to the oil escaping the seals , the housing vent (it should be on the top of the axlehousing tube near the third member) maybe plugged and when the axle heats up it creates pressure , the seals are not designed to hold much pressure so they may let a bit of oily vapor by. IF the seals on the caliper pucks are sticking the pads may be pressing lightly against the rotors generating heat, or the slides may be sticking ad holding on pad against the rotor again creating heat.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> As to the oil escaping the seals , the housing vent (it should be on the top of the axlehousing tube near the third member) maybe plugged and when the axle heats up it creates pressure , the seals are not designed to hold much pressure so they may let a bit of oily vapor by. IF the seals on the caliper pucks are sticking the pads may be pressing lightly against the rotors generating heat, or the slides may be sticking ad holding on pad against the rotor again creating heat.


 We will surely check this out when son comes to visit.He was going to be here this weekend but job kept him away.:beercheer:


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## Meerkat

I'm thinking of selling the bus,since fuel is so expensive again.But don't want to put this off on anyone else.So maybe either fix it or take it off the price.:dunno:
It would make a good tailgater for the Bull Dogs or The Gators,hehe.The way the front is we could make a gator mouth or bulldog snout..Plus the top lights would make a good set of gator eyes.
We don't get into sports now too busy so it would'nt matter to us.
I will miss my bus if we do sell it,hubby did'nt want it but now he likes it too.Never say never,he said he'd never ride in a school bus,but he did and liked it.:wave:


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