# Generator on my Well Pump



## BillT

I have plans on getting a WaterBoy Well Bucket soon, for if and when I might need it someday. I really would like a Hand Pump system with a Foot Valve, but I don't want to disturb my existing well with the electrical pump. I would really like to have an alternative well for a hand pump, but those plans are on temporary hold right now.

But this damaging Wind Storm we recently had has me thinking again about having a Gasoline Powered Generator to use when the power goes out. But with my limited electrical skills, I am not sure how to hook it up properly to switch from household current to generator current. I probably will go with a professional electrician when I'm ready to go with it, but in the meantime, I'm trying learn all I can about it. Anyone out there have one on their well?

Any info would be appreciated.

Bill


----------



## LincTex

First, do you know what size / make / model of well pump you are trying to power? How deep is the pump?

Second - and this is really easy - once you get a generator big enough to run your pump, and you know what size plug is on the generator (for example, NEMA L20-16)... all you have to do is make sure you have the same plug on your well pump. If the power goes out, unplug your pump, power up the generator, and plug the well pump into it.


----------



## goatlady

My well pump is on a separate breaker box from the house, so I had an electrician wire a plug in box to that breaker box to receive the plug that runs from my generator. Works just fine. I have to be sure the main house is switched off, but that's okay cause the freezers are also on the well pump breaker box, so I can run the well and keep the freezers frozen at the same time.


----------



## BillT

LincTex said:


> First, do you know what size / make / model of well pump you are trying to power? How deep is the pump?
> 
> Second - and this is really easy - once you get a generator big enough to run your pump, and you know what size plug is on the generator (for example, NEMA L20-16)... all you have to do is make sure you have the same plug on your well pump. If the power goes out, unplug your pump, power up the generator, and plug the well pump into it.


Appreciate the replies.

Since I first posted, I did some research on my pump:

-Jacuzzi Pump
-Volts 230
-Amps 5.0
-HP 1/2

My Well is 165 Ft Deep.

The well is out in the field a ways from the house. My pump is directly wired in from the house. I will go ahead and put in a plug and receptacle in the present set up.

I searched around a little for a new generator. I'll post one that I found. Let me know if you all think if this one would be big enough.

Thanks

Bill


----------



## BillT

This is the Generator I found online. Let me know if you all think if this is big enough to power my 1/2 HP Motor:

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/e...table-Generators-shop&infoParam.campaignId=WP

Thanks

Bill


----------



## BillT

BTW, I got faked out. I thought the one I posted above was a Coleman, but after some quick researching, I'm not even sure they make Coleman's anymore.

What would be a good American brand to consider?

Bill


----------



## LincTex

BillT said:


> This is the Generator I found online. Let me know if you all think if this is big enough to power my 1/2 HP Motor


It is too small, honestly. 240 x 5 amps = 1200 watts but only IF "already running" and under no heavy load! I honestly don't think that 3500 watt gen will handle the starting loads, which will most likely be in the 7000-8000 watt range (for a moment) as the pump is coming up to operating speed. A really good "start capacitor" will alleviate this demand to a degree.... otherwise you would need a 15,000 watt generator to get the pump started (for a split second, at least). There should be one mounted near the well head, that is replaceable without pulling the pump, and will look similar to the ones used on large central A/C units.

I would write to the company and ask what is the minimum size generator they would recommend, and I am willing to bet they something close to 8000 watts peak/6500 running will be close.



BillT said:


> What would be a good American brand to consider?


I don't know... I was in Tractor Supply the other day and even the GENERAC gens are now Chinese, with Generac paint and decals!!! The larger XG series generators are still made in the USA, but the smaller GP "portable series" are apparently now Chinese. No matter what, they are no longer the company they once were and I would avoid their newer stuff, but would INSTANTLY buy and older 70's or 80's era Generac.

I also noticed they had a water pump with a 550 series Briggs and Stratton engine... made in China. Kohler Command started making their engines in China two years ago, and now B&S, too?!?!?!?   :dunno:

Onan-Cummins portable gensets are also now Chinese    i think John Deere are also.

I do know that the higher priced gensets made in China are built to a much higher specification... the rubber hoses in the Harbor Freight ones (and all the o-rings, even the gas cap) won't last even one year.... but, the same Chinese genset from Onan-Cummins and John Deere have much higher quality rubber items in the fuel system, and will last far longer.

I did see that several Home Depot/Lowe's generators have either Yamaha or Subaru/Robin engines on them, and they would be the best bet. Even though made in China, the spec on these engines is very high and they are made to last. I don't know if I could trust any of the newer "American" brand generators.

An older (more than 10 years) Coleman with a Honda engine would be an excellent choice.

If you want old school and American made, there are some older 1800 RPM Onan gensets that are 5KW and would handle that well pump easily. i don't know if the 4KW ones would for sure, but I doubt they would have a problem, since the older Onan gensets were way underrated. The 4KW generators will put out more than 4KW when pushed hard, and not complain about it at all. These older generators are all cast iron and copper and are HEAVY HEAVY HEAVY, but will last a lifetime (seriously) and do use quite a bit of fuel. The older Generac, Hobart and Kohler units also fall into this category. All are over 20 years old by now, but seriously worth refurbishing.

If money is no object, buy an older Terex/Ameda/Ingersoll light tower with a Kubota D905 engine in it. These are rated at 6000 or 6500 watts but will exceed that for quite a while, like the old Onans will. They are also VERY fuel miserly... and we have some at work that are nearly 20 years old and have close to 20,000 hours on them. I see these used in the $2500 range.

Do not accidentally buy an older military unit if it is three-phase, unless it is 60Hz, crazy cheap and big enough to run what you want off of one phase only. If it is 400Hz, it is for aircraft it can't be made to work at all.


----------



## LincTex

One other thing... pretty much any "home use" generator will be 3600 RPM. The Tecumseh powered ones were the worst... most failed at right around 200 hours of use. They are probably worse than even the new Chinese units. The older single cylinder Briggs ones lasted a little longer, maybe 400-500 hours. The older 16 HP opposed twin Generacs will last 1000 hours easily.

Any 1800 RPM generator will run 10 times longer - 2000 hours isn't uncommon on older cast-iron Onan and Kohler if maintained right. A diesel Kubota 1800 RPM engine will run 20,000 hours.


----------



## TopTop

"I would write to the company and ask what is the minimum size generator they would recommend,..."

Spot on. And remember, this is for just the pump. Your fridge/freezer, air conditioning, air compressor etc also have high amperage starting requirements. I can run my place on a 7,000 watt gennie I bought back in the 90's by manually load shedding. I control when things can start to avoid conflict. For instance when the well pump is energized I cut power to all refrigeration. On engines, I have really liked the Vanguard series. My genny has a 14hp V-twin Vanguard with overhead valves & pressure lube. Very quiet (for it's size) and reliable. Much better than the B&S I/C engines for noise, fuel burn & longevity. 

I don't really trust any of the new stuff, it is all imported. My friend bought a $250 genny from Horrible Fright for tuna fishing. It quit on the first overnight trip. They replaced it & the second one did the same. He through it away & bought a Honda. Not just a Honda engine, but a real Honda gennie. Very expensive, but quiet & dependable.

I was looking real hard at a 50 year old industrial gennie to permanently install here. 12 cylinder diesel, 400kw 3 ph, and it had less than 1,000 hours. The reason I didn't jump on it was it would be a fuel hog & running it long term with light loads would be detrimental. If I could find the the same deal on one a quarter that size I wouldn't hesitate.


----------



## BillT

Appreciate the replies. Was that 12 Cylinder Diesel Engine a Detroit by chance?

BTW, I see some 3 and 4 Cylinder old Detroit Gen Sets out there now and then.

Bill


----------



## TopTop

Yea, the old two stroke double breasted variety. I have had a few of them & could repair/rebuild it myself as long as parts are available, so that doesn't intimidate me. Just put a giant drain pan underneath to catch the oil & pour it back in the top. lol


----------



## LincTex

BillT said:


> BTW, I see some 3 and 4 Cylinder old Detroit Gen Sets out there now and then.


The Detroit 2-53 Generators are a great deal at around ~$2000 and seem to be pretty easy to find. Here's one in Idaho for $1250. They are only 1200 RPM, will just about run on pure used motor oil, and will last 30 years or more.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-M-PACKAGED-A-C-GENERATOR-2-CYL-DETROIT-DIESEL-REBUILT-/200733872155

http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-20-KW-2-71-DETROIT-DIESEL-GENERATOR-/250591593664


----------



## LincTex

An interesting read about generators, from an off-gridder by Loveland, Colorado:

http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_gas.html


----------



## BillT

I would love to have a 2-53 Gen Set. The main problem though is the distance (shipping cost). I have yet seen one for sale around here within reasonable driving distance. Although I haven't really tried lately.

Co-incidental that you have mentioned 2-53. I have one in my '59 John Deere farm tractor. Also had a 6V-53 years ago in a GMC. I got bitten by the Detroit bug back in the early 70's. 

BTW, I took y'all's advice and called Jacuzzi, which is now Franklin Electric, and talked to one of the engineers on the tech line. I was told to my/our surprise that my pump would do fine with a 3000. I was figuring on at least a 3500 myself. But this is if I run it for the pump only and nothing else, as he asked, and I told him that is how I plan to run it. 

Appreciate the help.

Bill


----------



## goatlady

Just a suggestion from personal experience. It REALLY helps ladies start gennies IF there is a battery/key start! Many of us just cannot generate enough arm strength to pull that cord hard enough and fast enough to create that necessary spark!


----------



## BillT

Good tip, as I can just picture my wife trying to start it if I wasn't around. She not real good with stuff like that.

Bill


----------



## LincTex

goatlady said:


> It REALLY helps ladies start gennies IF there is a battery/key start! Many of us just cannot generate enough arm strength to pull that cord hard enough and fast enough to create that necessary spark!


I only have one that my wife can pull start - and it has a 13 HP Honda engine on it. She's 5'4", 106 lbs (size 0).


----------



## LincTex

REALLY good, practical info in here on running a well pump on a generator:

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89622


----------



## LastOutlaw

*Honda*

I have one word for you
HONDA


----------



## Viking

LincTex said:


> The Detroit 2-53 Generators are a great deal at around ~$2000 and seem to be pretty easy to find. Here's one in Idaho for $1250. They are only 1200 RPM, will just about run on pure used motor oil, and will last 30 years or more.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/E-M-PACKAGED-A-C-GENERATOR-2-CYL-DETROIT-DIESEL-REBUILT-/200733872155
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-20-KW-2-71-DETROIT-DIESEL-GENERATOR-/250591593664


I have a friend that lives in Grants Pass, Oregon that is a generator expert and he's really good at working on Detroit engines of all sizes, I think he still has a V-16 in his shop. He also works on a number of other older slow turning diesel powered generators. He is so busy lately that he is hardly ever here in Oregon, farmers in California are having to go back to their irrigation wells due to the drought and no water in the irrigation canals and so he is in great demand for putting well systems back into operation.


----------



## LincTex

LastOutlaw said:


> I have one word for you
> HONDA


I bought one of these as a "refurb" for $375 from "SuperGen Products" in NY

Champion 73536i 1700W / 2000W Inverter Generator

http://www.amazon.com/Champion-Equipment-73536i-Generator-Compliant/dp/B0041K09D8

I have nothing but praise for it. 
5 stars easy. 
It'll run a 5,000 BTU window unit all night long (cycling on and off) on 1/2 gallon of gas. I have over 100 hours on mine and I couldn't be happier with it!


----------



## TheLazyL

Do NOT use a suicide cable. A cable that has a male plug on both ends.

Do NOT start your generator, plug the suicide cable into the generator and touch the other end.

Do NOT plug the hot end of a suicide cable into a house 220v recipient without throwing the main circuit breaker first.

DO use a disconnect switch. Switches well electrical service from electric company *OR* generator. Never both.

For a short term event I find a generator works the best for me. Generator can also provide power for heat and rechargeable batteries.

For a long term event or TEOTWAWKI I'll replace the submersible pump with either the 12 DC pump or a hand pump.


----------



## KittyCat

About once or twice a yr the power goes out due to high wind. Sometime the outage is a few hours, others a few days. This is tough, especially when water is needed for animals, potential fire suppression, baths, etc. When I recently replaced the concrete pad for the domestic well, I considered installing a breaker box that would work somewhat as follows. Pull the lever and the power is completely disconnected from the house. When pulled another lever or contact comes into play that allows you to connect power from your generator to the pump. I asked my local well company if they could install such a system and was told such a setup was beyond their capabilities and that I needed an electrician. Got the quote: @$975 (ouch!). Electrical is currently jury rigged and will remain so until I decide it it is worth installing such a backup that a generator could plug into or direct wire it to the house and live with the annual water outage. The cost of living,.. and NO i do not do electrical.


----------



## LincTex

KittyCat said:


> Pull the lever and the power is completely disconnected from the house. When pulled another lever or contact comes into play that allows you to connect power from your generator to the pump. .


That's a pretty common double pole, single throw switch.



KittyCat said:


> The cost of living,.. and NO i do not do electrical.


In the meantime, do this:

1) have an electrical disconnect that shuts of power to your well (located near where you want your generator to sit
2) under that disconnect, install an outlet that matches the one on your generator
3) buy a matching plug, and wire it to your well pump.

Now all you have to do when the power goes out is just unplug your well from the mains power, fire up the generator, and plug the well plug into the generator. No, it isn't perfect - - but it is SAFE and does work properly.


----------

