# looking for some help / opinions



## branham5 (Feb 6, 2013)

hello,

Ok so here is where were at. I'm going to go with the "security" portion is covered but I do need help as far as food, food storage goes. I have some rice and beans put up as well as a little bit of sugar. I also just bought one of the starter kits from LDS, came in the mail yesterday. As I was reading the forum I seen that some of you say the LDS stuff is priced too high ---I thought it was good pricing based on other stuff I had seen.. I don't want to waste money paying to much for my preps so where do I get my food at Sams and Costco? I also have some other questions about other stuff and I will list everything below. I have tried looking around here and other sites but it kinda seems like the more I read the more I get confused ....about some of the stuff. ALso keep in mind that I am prepping for 5 people.

Communication- what's everyone using to communicate with ? HAM? CB's?

Water purification- I have found the Big Burkey is this good to go or should I be looking at something else

Grain mill- Country living grain mill seems to be highly recommended but it's also pretty pricey. If that's what I need that's fine but like I said I don't like learning lessons by wasting money.

I am currently using some food saver bags and some Mylar bags. I am thinking that I am going to go all Mylar. Is this a good idea? 

Any help would be appreciated
thanks.
Branham5


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

Personally I think mylar bags and 02 packs are the best for long term storage. I started the post on the LDS starter kit and while some make think it is pricey it is well within my budget. I compared the prices to that of my local grocery store and LDS is cheaper. I live in a remote area and the closest SAMS club is 60 miles away. They do not sell wheat at my sams so I have to order it and by the time I buy the supplies to repackage it and pay shipping I come out cheaper ordering from LDS. 

This is how I got started prepping. Hubby lost his job and we could not make ends met. I made a menu for a month (I got paid monthly) of the cheapest meals that I could possibly feed 3 growing boys. I made out my grocery list and went to the store. I wrote down in a note book the price of staples like flour, sugar, salt, noodles. That way when I was in different stores I could price compare. Then I started bargain shopping. I shopped the dollar stores, scratch and dent stores and day old bread stores. I cooked everything from scratch. I mean every thing even flour tortilla and tortilla chips were homemade. By the end of the 3rd month I had a nice stock pile going. I only bought what was on sale and what we would eat.

Since we moved I am restocking but instead of canned beans I am stocking dry beans, I am canning them myself or cooking them and then dehydrating them. I am stocking wheat berries instead of flour and grinding the berries as I need flour. I will admit to buying noodles only because I have not attempted making my own. However, since noodles boxes are getting smaller and the prices are increasing I may attempt it soon than later.

Do not waste your money on convenience foods like bisquick and other prepackaged food. I suggest buying a good cookbook (pre 70's) and learn to cook from scratch. You can buy staples much cheaper than prepackaged food and get more meals for your buck. If nothing else google homemade bisquick and you will find several recipes on how to make your own. Same with cake mixes and cream of soups, salad dressings. Even homemade mayo.

RULE NUMBER ONE (and the most imporatant rule) Stock what you eat and eat what you stock. 
RULE NUMBER TWO (just as important) Rotate Rotate Rotate - first in first out. In other words when something comes into your house write the month and date it was purchased that way you can besure you are using the oldest first.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm not a hard core prepper and had some similar concerns. I looked at the LDS stuff and might get some in the future because I believe the shelf life is superior to what I did. I bought 25 lbs lard, 37 lbs sugar, 30 lbs enriched white rice, 30 lbs flour, 34 lbs pinto beans, and about 18 lbs quick oats. Totat price of the food was about $115. This food yields enough calories and protein for about 135 days for one person. I got five 5 gallon buckets and Gamma lids at a cost of about $87 and about $5 worth of dry ice. I used the dry ice to purge the oxygen from the buckets. I now have enough food for my wife and I for a couple of months stored in one square foot of floor space in the bucket stacked 6 high.

Some of the stuff like the lard and sugar will probably last much longer that I will. Other stuff like the beans, rice and oats will probaly go 10 years or so. The flour I'm not so sure about.


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

swjohnsey said:


> Some of the stuff like the lard and sugar will probably last much longer that I will. Other stuff like the beans, rice and oats will probaly go 10 years or so. The flour I'm not so sure about.


Milled flour only has a short shelf life that is why it is suggested to store wheat berries they have a 30 year shelf life is stored correctly. White flour last longer than whole wheat flour. Whole wheat flour will go rancid with in 6-12 months.

Cornmeal is another short shelf life item but you can store plain popcorn and grind it and you will have fresh cornmeal.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Beans and rice are cheap in bulk from Sams club. I don't have a local costco, but if I did I would probably buy there instead of Sams. I think costco has better quality products, and probably better selection than our local Sams. It depends on what you eat though. I'm working on going to a Paleo diet, and things like beans or rice don't really fit that diet. http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/ has a lot of stuff, including bulk grains and grain mills. Regular bagged white flour has decent shelf life, but pretty much nothing in the way of nutritional value. All the stuff that provides nutritional value is removed to make it more shelf stable. In other words, the stuff that gives it nutritional value is also what makes it go rancid. For this reason, if you want bread, it's best to store wheat berries versus flour. On this note, wheat berries found in 2,000 year old egyptian tombs grew when planted, so properly stored they will last a really long time.

Communications: I'm a General class ham. I'll use whatever is available though, be it FRS, CB, etc.. Everything has it's limits though, and you have to understand the limitations to know what's most likely to work for you. You aren't likely to get more than a few miles of range from FRS radios, for instance, while a HF ham radio can send and receive from all over the world. You won't be dropping a HF ham radio in your pocket though. Getting a ham license is really pretty easy. The Technician and General class tests are 35 questions each, while the Extra is 50 questions. It costs, normally, under $20 to take a test, and most places will let you take more than one test for the same fee. For example, it cost me something like $17 to take the tech and general tests in the same session. I could have also taken the Extra test at the same time(I hadn't studied for it, so I didn't  ). There are quite a few Ham threads in the communications forum. I'd recommend a General class license if you go this route, as you'll have access to both short and long range frequencies.

Water purification: Again, no one size fits all solution. It would be inconvienient to carry a Berkey on a long hike, and a pump filter like my MSR miniworks doesn't make sense for home use. You can buy the berkey filter elements and make your own unit from a couple of five gallon buckets.

Grain mill: No experience with any of them, other than some ancient ones. Hand cranking is slow and tiring. I would want easily available replacement parts so I could keep a few spares on hand. Conversion to electric is a nice thing.

The plastic foodsaver bags are actually air permeable over time, and they don't block light. Mylar is superior in pretty much every way.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I don't use mylar or O2 absorbers in my storage. I use 5 gallon buckets. I put the rice or whatever it is I plan to store in the freezer to kill bugs then put it directly in the 5 gallon buckets then seal them up. I've done it this way for years and it works fine. Amish and Mennonites don't use mylar or O2 and since that is how I grew up, I don't use them. 

A good cookbook on cooking from scratch is the Mennonite Community Cookbook by Mary Emma Showalter. It was first published in 1950. You need to practice cooking with the ingredients you are storing so it won't be a challenge when you need them. 

As for radios, our group has a HAM operator. Others in our group are also getting their HAM license. We also have walkie talkies and batteries stored in a Faraday cage. We are trying to keep our preps non-electric in case the grid goes down. 

I am actually prepping for 15 people so I do everything on a large scale.


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

your FoodSaver bags are only going to hold good for around 6 months ..... short term only .... not really worth your time when you are talking storage foods .... most of the storage foods have a 3-5 year shelf life as they come from the factory .....

mylar bags are just a part of the long term storage (LTS) packaging SYSTEM .... the FOOD GRADE bucket and gasketed lock lid is the heavy lifter .... the 02 absorbers create your near zero oxygen level around your food .... all three work together to give the storage longevity you want ..... you eliminate one and your longevity is cut or sacrificed entirely ....


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## Prepper69 (Jan 25, 2013)

We have just started prepping...we are putting our "bulk" foods in mylar with oxygen absorbors in 5 gallon buckets with gamma lids -- so far -- wheat, potato flakes, quick oats. We also have some in 1 gallon bags with oxygen absorbors. All have a 30 year shelf life. We also have beans (pinto, black and white), rice, salmon, chicken, hamburger, chili beans, and butter stored. We have purchased a wheat grinder (wonder junior deluxe) and a sun oven. We already have ALOT of camping gear which can be used in the "need" of it. Working on getting chickens...we got some but the neighbors dog killed them yesterday  so we are "building" up the coop and going to get some more. Got a big deep freeze and about to buy a cow...some to freeze and some to can. We have 2 generators to be able to run the freezer if needed. I have done alot of research on the food...the rice, potato flakes, oats all came from the morman pantry. Rice and beans were cheaper coming from Sams. The supplies to bag it all came from Amazon except the buckets and gamma lids. I have just done alot of price checking on things and this is the best buys for me. Everyone is going to be different because of location, amount of money to spend at one time, amount of people they are prepping for, etc...so make sure you take that into consideration when making decisions. I am prepping for 2 basically...now we live in the country and I have 3 kids who live in cities...so yes we are putting some up for them basically....trying to teach them why and what we are doing while we are doing it.
As for the "big" stuff, "outside stuff" or communications...that is my husband's area to take care of....so he would have to chime in on those.
But my "rule" of thumb is to do a bit of everything so I have the variety....and always...store what I eat and eat what I store


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I was able to save a couple dollars a bag on beans at the LDS Cannery over Costco. The cost of gas probably would not cover the savings. The LDS did have dehydrated onions and I have not found them elsewhere, the trip was worth it for this item alone. If entertainment has a value then I also had a lot of fun on this "adventure". The LDS prices and quality are excellent. You may do marginally better on certain items elsewhere but not if you have to drive very far. 

Expect to pay more for it if you buy it already canned. Let me see, they provide the can the labor, the O2 absorber, and the freight to your front door. Search out and purchase the product, the mylar, the buckets, the Gama Lids, O2 absorber or dry ice, and factor in your time. While the LDS Starter Kit is not for me I feel it is a good way to get started (ergo starter kit) and a fair price. When you add everything up you probably paid less than I did. 

You are going to find better and cheaper ways to do things, that is just part of the learning process. Your coming here will help minimize that, at least it has with me. Just because you found a better way to do something does not mean the first way was wrong, just not the best. 

I have had poor luck with food saver bags. I do like using the foodsaver on canning jars for some products.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I bought regular food from the store. Stuff I already eat. Some things had to be changed. Like using canned chicken from Wal-Mart in place of hamburger in chili and hamburger helper.

I bought water in 1 gallon jugs then bought cinder blocks and 3/4 inch plywood to hold it. It's in the basement. It's 5 rows high. The plywood hasn't sagged. Each water tower holds 512 gallon jugs. We have 3 in the basement. Each one is 4' x 8'.

We have 5 gallon buckets with snap on toilet seats to use as toilets. Garbage bags to line them. Plus kitty litter to cover the smell.

We have kerosene heaters and kerosene. I prefer the Dura Heat DH2304 23,000 BTU heater. There's a smaller heater in stores but the output is a lot less and it doesn't burn for long before you have to refill it.

We have iPads, iPods, and a Kindle. I have AA battery to USB chargers and 200 AA batteries.

For home defense we have two youth sized Mossberg 500 bantam 20 gauge shotguns. They fire both slugs and shot. I thought youth sized would make it easier to use in the home for home defense. I also have a Cold Steel Gladius Machete with a 19" blade.

I bought a box of 288 8-hour candles on Amazon. We also bought as many cheap candles we could find from thrift shops and rummage sales.

For washing clothes we'll use a mop and mop bucket. It has something to squeeze the water out of the mop that we can use to squeeze the water out of our clothes.


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## branham5 (Feb 6, 2013)

BillS,

I really like the idea of the mop bucket for washing clothes. That is using your head.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

I may be the odd-man-out here, but I've spent most of my life in that condition, so I'm used to it....

Here goes....

For food:
Yup. That advice someone gave you about "Stock what you eat, eat what you stock" is probably the best advice I've ever heard. Appetite monotony will get you as close to starvation as anyone in a third-world country, but it will be self-imposed. If you have a choice between eating nothing but beans for a year, or eating a bullet..... after a month, that bullet will start looking damned good!

Pasta seems to keep almost forever.... Same with rice and it's versatile. Canned / Jarred sauces.... Look at what you normally eat and figure out how long it will keep. Then rotate accordingly.

I use 2 gallon mylar liquid-storage bags, but not for anything long-term. More for convenience of storage. I find they work well for keeping drinking water in the cars.

When it comes to things that only keep on the shelf for a month or so, that tends to be stuff that we normally eat anyway, so we stock it. Around here, it's not uncommon for friends and family to stop by, and it's almost impolite not to offer a meal or something. Don't be afraid to stock up on stuff that only keeps a few weeks. *MOST* of the high-probability emergencies we *are* going to face will be nicely covered by just such supplies. Our little snow-storm is just such a case-in-point. If you're only stuck in your house for 4 or 5 days, do you really want to start baking beans in your newly built rocket-oven? Screw that..... the wife and I will be having a good ol' New England boiled dinner (for those who are wondering...: corned beef, turnip, carrots, onions, etc....) by candlelight with a nice table-wine.

I'm not making a pun here, but food is, indeed, largely a matter of taste. We do about 30 days of frozen meats and veggies; a crap-load of canned veggies stews and soups; I'm a nut for the canned beef ravioli, so that stock rotates *real * quick; rice, pasta, sauces (commercially canned and jarred, as well as home-made), canned meats (like chunked tuna, chicken, turkey, beef), kippered snacks (the wife can't stand those, but i love 'em), even the ubiquitous SPAM (Foxworthy jokes aside, the stuff really is good grilled and fixed-up on a bun like a hamburger! Hell... I ain't proud...)

Of course we do the flour and ground corn (I'm not even all that good at it, but my kids *go absolutely nuts* over my "braided bread"... It's nothing more than logs of white, wheat, and light rye dough woven together and painted with a little egg and brown sugar, but even now that they're all grown up with kids of their own, they still ask for it when they come over!)

Once made, home-made bread doesn't keep long though!

As for communications, we use GMRS on a day-to-day basis and FRS in close proximity. We're sort of "re-discovering" CB, but only because it's so common that it may be useful. MURS (VHF) works well for playing around in the woods (UHF seems to really get nailed by the trees and other obstructions... really cuts down on range).

HAM is an outstanding way to go, even though I'm not a HAM. I don't have HAM equipment (unless you count my cheap little programmable HTs, which I only use for MURS/GMRS), but the value of such a license is, in my opinion, unarguable. Time and money have kept me from it, nothing else... and I *DO* respect the regulations and conventions, and *refuse* to operate illegally or "out-of-band" (licensed for GMRS) if, for no other reason, out of respect for those who have done it right!

When it comes to water purification, I'm lucky. I live where I'll probably die, and we have a 15-20 foot deep "driven point" well. Gods' Good Earth does a pretty decent job of purifying what comes up from that, and so far, it's been plentiful.

As for grain mills, I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. I figure I can stock up on more pre-ground grains than I'll ever be able to acquire and process on my own. Maybe I'm missing something.... Someone please feel free to educate me. I need all the help I can get!

I suppose what I'm trying to get across in this post is simply "don't panic", and don't over-think it. I see a lot of folks going over the edge because they don't have 2 years on-hand, and can't figure out how to keep it all fresh. Just start canning! Just start vacuum-packing! You'll begin to see what will keep and what wont. You'll be surprised at what *normal* everyday food items are store-able and for how long! If all you have on-hand is a couple weeks worth of "isolated" capability, you're not only going to *get by* during most realistic emergencies, you'll be envied.

(I can't stand "competitive-prepping")



Just think of what you use today, and multiply it by 7, then that by 4, then that by 6, then ....!


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

> As for grain mills, I'm still trying to wrap my head around that. I figure I can stock up on more pre-ground grains than I'll ever be able to acquire and process on my own. Maybe I'm missing something.... Someone please feel free to educate me. I need all the help I can get!


White flour has been stripped almost entirely of nutritional value to increase the shelf life. I would guess that most other flour products are the same. In contrast, 2000+ year old wheat berries found in tombs still germinated when planted, and were still edible. I'm not sure on nutrient degradation, but they probably still had more nutritional value than today's shelf stable flour. Basically, buying whole grains and grinding them as needed provides longer storage and more nutritional value than buying flour.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> White flour has been stripped almost entirely of nutritional value to increase the shelf life. I would guess that most other flour products are the same. In contrast, 2000+ year old wheat berries found in tombs still germinated when planted, and were still edible. I'm not sure on nutrient degradation, but they probably still had more nutritional value than today's shelf stable flour. Basically, buying whole grains and grinding them as needed provides longer storage and more nutritional value than buying flour.


This is where I get confused...

I absolutely understand the nutritional component and the lack of such value in modern processed flours, but longer storage? That's the part where I find conflicting information.

I don't think anyone in their right mind could argue about the benefits of actually grinding fresh meal / flour, and for those reasons, as a normal daily use, a grain mill would be advantageous. I just don't see the natural grains storing as long. It's unfortunate but it seems that the same processing that reduces the nutritional value also seems to be what allows longer-term storage. Certainly, the ground grains store more compactly than loose whole grains.

I don't know..... I'm having a difficult time believing that the natural whole grains will store as long, as easily and as efficiently as the (admittedly nutritionally inferior) processed flours.

I really *am* willing to be converted... but I can't _*quite*_ get there yet...


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

As for compact of flour vs grain: grain is more compact. I'll grind a couple of cups of wheat and get almost four cups of flour. 

I'm storing both.

No mention here much if how you all plan on cooking. I've got sun oven and live where there is plenty of wood. How about heating your home? We have a wood stove. 

Always plan on worse case, no electricity. 

I realize everyone can't post everything they have in preps, but to me, water, heat, source of cooking, then food....


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

DJgang said:


> As for compact of flour vs grain: grain is more compact. I'll grind a couple of cups of wheat and get almost four cups of flour.
> 
> I'm storing both.
> 
> ...


Hmmm.... interesting.... I'll have to play a tad.....

Short term emergency cooking is via propane and camp-stoves. Long term, there's only one choice - WOOD!  Same for heat. I could "make do" with what we have, but I'm researching small wood-stoves to be put in place long term, if needed. We have a few acres out back that are wooded.

Short-term stuff is the generator.


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## branham5 (Feb 6, 2013)

As far as heating my house, we have a fireplace. Although not as efficient as my wood stove in my old house it will do the job for the main areas. I live off the beaten path and wood is plentiful so no worries....on a side note, my oldest son was 10yrs old before he knew what a furnace was. That's because we always heated with wood at my old house. He came home from school one day and was all excited. He said dad did you know that there is a thing called a furnace? It will heat your house and you don't have to split and stack wood all year. I had to laugh, I then showed him the furnace in the house and boy was he mad. He could not believe that I would rather burn wood then pay for propane. Now that we bought another house we have the fireplace and we use it as more of a novelty type thing. 2 days ago my 2 boys told me that they missed going and cutting wood, the splitting, the stacking...etc. etc. They said that they missed the one on one time that we had together getting wood. Guess we will be getting some wood next weekend. Fyi.. they are 9 and 12.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't think there is actually any conflicting evidence on the topic of the storage life of unground grains versus ground, this is very old provable science. I know that my great, great grandpa and other farmers at the time were very aware that grains started losing nutrition as soon as they were ground. The seed coat of grains (hard shelled ones like wheat in particular) work very well to protect the different components inside, when that coating is broken the parts that can oxidize and break down do so rapidly. To get around this you can take out the components that cause off flavours and deteriorate first, giving you white flour for instance, this does not prevent any loss in nutrition, just completely removes the parts that taste bad when spoiled.

Wheat will store indefinitely in a cool place, 20 years is not difficult but I don't recommend storing anything for longer than you need to, rotation is much better if possible. 
Wheat does not need an oxygen free environment to store properly for decades, however by removing the oxygen you prevent any damage caused by insects which can be a real concern. Plastic pails are gas permeable so using mylar liners prevents grains from picking up off flavours from the surrounding air. Glass, stainless, or ceramic containers work better imo but are not so practical for many.

branham5, I love using wood and hopefully your kids will continue to come around, I said some pretty crazy things when I was a kid too, stuff seemed so obvious to me


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Outpost said:


> This is where I get confused...
> 
> I absolutely understand the nutritional component and the lack of such value in modern processed flours, but longer storage? That's the part where I find conflicting information.
> 
> ...


I guess I don't understand. You can get around 50 pounds of wheat in a 5 gallon bucket. I have no idea how much flour you could put in the same bucket, but I'd guess there isn't much difference. Both need to be stored dry, but wheat should be protected from light and oxygen as well.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/03/26/The-Little-Known-Secrets-about-Bleached-Flour.aspx

bleh!

Edit: I'm under the impression that even whole wheat should be protected from oxygen.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It is not harmful to store it without oxygen just not necessary, like I mentioned it is a way of preventing insects without chemicals.

Here is a document from Utah state university, it says "It is not necessary to store wheat in the absence of oxygen unless insects are present." Has some other good info as well.
http://extension.usu.edu/foodstorage/htm/wheat

Light is really not going to be an issue with grains unless you spread them out somehow.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I only got about 30 lbs of white flour in a 5 gallon bucket.


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