# Daycare concerns



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Not about my kids, they don't go to daycare.

There is a smaller house in our neighborhood that sat empty for almost a year until a few months ago when it was finally purchased by a couple in their early 30's. They have at least 3 small kids of their own and run an at-home daycare Mon-Fri. I would guess that there are around 12 kids in that house on a daily basis. The husband works construction and is only around on the weekends. There is an older teenage girl that seems to be around most days to help with the kids but that is it.

We are not unfriendly with our neighbors but we don't run over with a fresh peach pie when someone moves in either. It's good for people to realize that we are to some degree _rationally_ xenophobic. So I was thinking this morning as I climbed into my truck and drove to the office, what if today was the day that things went to hell in a handbasket. What if today the solar flare hit, the zombies rose from their graves, the Korean military decided to invade or Coca Cola decided to stop producing the their delicious beverages and anarchy ensued.

While my first priority would be for the protection and well being of my family, I am not going to ignore a dozen 1-4 year old and leave them to their fate. You can presume that some of their parents will do whatever it takes to retrieve their children, but some will not make it. Depending on the situation I suppose my gut reaction would be to get my family home and into lock down mode. Then I would probably gear up with one of my older kids and perhaps another neighbor and provide protection for the daycare until the little ones have all be picked up (that are going to be). After that who knows.

What would you do?


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

I agree that I probably couldn't ignore a group of helpless children but I wouldn't be able to care for anyone extra on a long term basis either. I guess it would depend on the type of situation. Local, national, worldwide, weather, nuclear, etc. I would definitely give temporary aid and help in anyway possible regardless but the situation would probably dictate how much help and for how long.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Get to know them (daycare providers) now so that they'll trust you if TSHTF. Other than that your plan sounds great.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

There ya go - thinking about others again. That will get you into so much trouble! 


Ok - joking aside now.


That is a good idea. Watching out for the little ones. You might want to just introduce yourself to the daycare as a the local watchdog, you know, just in case something does happen and then they would know you and trust you.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

you have to do what you can to look after the little monsters, BUT what are the chances that you would be able to get home right away to do a lock down. There are all those citizens that will also need to be taken care of. Can you just drop what ever you are doing and go look after your family and neighbors right away??


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> you have to do what you can to look after the little monsters, ... There are all those citizens that will also need to be taken care of. ...


I'd figure the adults were adults and adults should have life lessons, experience and resources to deal with it.

Children are a totally different matter. They will need help from adults to survive.


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

Hmmm - Small house with a total of 12 small children (1 to 4 yrs you say) with only two attending caregivers (one a teen)? I would be concerned about their own SHTF situations cropping up in the course of managing that volume of children on a daily basis with the limited hands on to deal with emergencies in the home alone. Those numbers in private day care here would not wash for several reasons, safety being the utmost. 

Good idea to check in with them and assure them you are a helpful neighbor in any event.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

lovetogrow said:


> Hmmm - Small house with a total of 12 small children (1 to 4 yrs you say) with only two attending caregivers (one a teen)? I would be concerned about their own SHTF situations cropping up in the course of managing that volume of children on a daily basis with the limited hands on to deal with emergencies in the home alone. Those numbers in private day care here would not wash for several reasons, safety being the utmost. ....


Wife trying help the Husband make ends meet? As long as the children are cared for I don' see problem.

You get the government involved, cost and regulations go up and the Baby sitting money goes down. Another mother on the welfare and perhaps a few of the children's mothers too because there is no one to watch their children.

On the other hand if the reason the Mother's are working is to pay for that bass boat, camping trailer, boat cruise, wide screen TV with surround sound and new cars/motorcycles then why did they have children just to pay some one else to raise them...


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

I would of course introduce myself (As everyone said) But I would go grab those babies and be sure they were O.K( in a second),let all the parents know where they are.I'm sure they would all come and get them(if they could)If not I guess I have to take care of them the best I could.I would hope and pray if anything happened, someone would help mine get to me!!!!!!


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> Wife trying help the Husband make ends meet? As long as the children are cared for I don' see problem.
> 
> You get the government involved, cost and regulations go up and the Baby sitting money goes down. Another mother on the welfare and perhaps a few of the children's mothers too because there is no one to watch their children.
> 
> On the other hand if the reason the Mother's are working is to pay for that bass boat, camping trailer, boat cruise, wide screen TV with surround sound and new cars/motorcycles then why did they have children just to pay some one else to raise them...


I'm all for helping out working moms with doable day care costs - no problem there. The concerns I would have in this situation are only safety centred.

I was an eldest in a family of fourteen children, and my primary role was child caregiver in the family on a daily basis. Just pulling off a fire drill with small children is no small task (and I did do that with the sibs in my care). 
It's ten fold more hands on and intense work with twelve 1-4 year olds.

Hey if this day care home is all safe and set - good on them!! Somehow I wonder though if they have all that together.

Sorry OP - not wanting to derail thread - Good neighbours are just what these kids need


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

*ACK! You had to put selflessness into my head! * :brickwall:

Being the bleeding heart that I am I'd take in any little ones that were not claim. Yes, it would make my stores go faster but I couldn't let the child die because something happened and mom and dad couldn't get to them in time. What if it were my Roo...!?


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I agree with you lovetogrow. Small house as in 4 bedrooms and maybe only 2,400 square feet. Toys strewn about, woman sitting in a lawn chair smoking and texting for hours while semi-unattended children run free. My son came home once this summer to find a 2-3 year old girl standing in the street. He assisted her to the sidewalk and knocked on the neighbor's door. Apparently it was the woman actual child and she had "gotten out" somehow. Sometimes you see her standing on the front step smoking and no one is in the house but the kids. She may be a pleasant and wonderful person, but I can already tell we have very different ideals on what quality child care is. My wife does know someone who takes their kids there and says that they are okay with the smoking and "stuff" because her rates are so cheap. That gave me shivers. 

I make a habit of not speaking with women outside of the presence of my wife (unless I am at work). I might ask Mrs. Sentry18 to introduce herself to her but I can already hear her say "I am not looking for any new friends". For some reason ladies are always trying to befriend my wife, but with a 24/7 day care of our own (figuratively speaking) she doesn't have enough time for her best friend (which is me!) or her other good friends. Still needs more thought and consideration but so far I am still thinking that providing perimeter security only is the way to go. After that I will have to improvise, adapt and overcome.


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> I agree with you lovetogrow. Small house as in 4 bedrooms and maybe only 2,400 square feet. Toys strewn about, woman sitting in a lawn chair smoking and texting for hours while semi-unattended children run free. My son came home once this summer to find a 2-3 year old girl standing in the street. He assisted her to the sidewalk and knocked on the neighbor's door. Apparently it was the woman actual child and she had "gotten out" somehow. Sometimes you see her standing on the front step smoking and no one is in the house but the kids. She may be a pleasant and wonderful person, but I can already tell we have very different ideals on what quality child care is. My wife does know someone who takes their kids there and says that they are okay with the smoking and "stuff" because her rates are so cheap. That gave me shivers.
> 
> I make a habit of not speaking with women outside of the presence of my wife (unless I am at work). I might ask Mrs. Sentry18 to introduce herself to her but I can already hear her say "I am not looking for any new friends". For some reason ladies are always trying to befriend my wife, but with a 24/7 day care of our own (figuratively speaking) she doesn't have enough time for her best friend (which is me!) or her other good friends. Still needs more thought and consideration but so far I am still thinking that providing perimeter security only is the way to go. After that I will have to improvise, adapt and overcome.


Tough spot to be in as a neighbour. I would call that day care provider on her sh**t, do what I could to help keep those kids safe, and hope the dimwit starts to fly right - but that's just me :nuts:


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## JackDanielGarrett (Sep 27, 2010)

I never had kids and my wife has 4. A little over 3 years ago my nephew went to prison and his wife says...I don't want my 8 month old son. He is almost 4 now and he goes to daycare a couple of days a week so he can be around other kids. Few weeks ago he wandered off and was found a quarter mile away, and brought back safe. I have known the owner for 45 years and it was a mistake and a very bad one too. As most of you know kids are quicker, sneakier and think more than we think.

I said all that to say this: Sentry, your by a daycare and anything can wrong, heck we don't even need zombies.... True it isn't your job, your not getting paid and after all, they do belong to someone else. But I do agree that as a human being you have concerns about safety. When the time comes, you will do whats right. And it is good that you are aware.

Jack


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> ...Small house as in 4 bedrooms and maybe only 2,400 square feet. Toys strewn about, woman sitting in a lawn chair smoking and texting for hours while semi-unattended children run free.... 2-3 year old girl standing in the street. ...they are okay with the smoking and "stuff" because her rates are so cheap. ...


That's a whole different ball of wax! I'd now agree with lovetogrow too


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> I agree with you lovetogrow. Small house as in 4 bedrooms and maybe only 2,400 square feet. Toys strewn about, woman sitting in a lawn chair smoking and texting for hours while semi-unattended children run free. My son came home once this summer to find a 2-3 year old girl standing in the street. He assisted her to the sidewalk and knocked on the neighbor's door. Apparently it was the woman actual child and she had "gotten out" somehow. Sometimes you see her standing on the front step smoking and no one is in the house but the kids. She may be a pleasant and wonderful person, but I can already tell we have very different ideals on what quality child care is. My wife does know someone who takes their kids there and says that they are okay with the smoking and "stuff" because her rates are so cheap. That gave me shivers.
> 
> I make a habit of not speaking with women outside of the presence of my wife (unless I am at work). I might ask Mrs. Sentry18 to introduce herself to her but I can already hear her say "I am not looking for any new friends". For some reason ladies are always trying to befriend my wife, but with a 24/7 day care of our own (figuratively speaking) she doesn't have enough time for her best friend (which is me!) or her other good friends. Still needs more thought and consideration but so far I am still thinking that providing perimeter security only is the way to go. After that I will have to improvise, adapt and overcome.


If there are THAT many kids and she is the only adult then you need to think about calling the state/county/city board about the license. There are regulations and certificates that are needed to run an in-home daycare. It would be different if she were "babysitting" a group of less than 3 kids in-home. Think of the movie "Daddy Daycare" and the crap they had to go through to get approved once a single call was made. If all else fails call CPS.

Source: As a child I was cared for at an in-home daycare and K's mom ran an in-home daycare all his life.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Check the state guidelines for adult-child ratios. In KY its 5 infants (under 1 year) for 1 adult. Toddlers (2-5years) its 10 kids/1 adult.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Child care laws and regulations vary greatly from state to state. The last time I looked into it there is licensing requirements for a certified "daycare" but if you just call it a babysitting service, then there are no regulations. But there are also no taxes, fees, requirements or inspections either. There are a lot of off-the-books daycares here because the certified daycares (which are usually not in homes) are large, loud and expensive. Plus you have to sit on a list waiting to get in. I work with Social Service and Child Protection a lot, so believe me when I tell you that unlicensed daycares are the least of their concerns. I can barely get them to do something when I am dealing with documented child neglect / abuse.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Child care laws and regulations vary greatly from state to state. The last time I looked into it there is licensing requirements for a certified "daycare" but if you just call it a babysitting service, then there are no regulations. But there are also no taxes, fees, requirements or inspections either. There are a lot of off-the-books daycares here because the certified daycares (which are usually not in homes) are large, loud and expensive. Plus you have to sit on a list waiting to get in. I work with Social Service and Child Protection a lot, so believe me when I tell you that unlicensed daycares are the least of their concerns. I can barely get them to do something when I am dealing with documented child neglect / abuse.


Next time one of the kids gets into the street or "escapes" its time to call CPS that the kids are being neglected by the "babysitter".


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> I work with Social Service and Child Protection a lot, so believe me when I tell you that unlicensed daycares are the least of their concerns. I can barely get them to do something when I am dealing with documented child neglect / abuse.


No kidding, that hits too close to home. 
A 12 year old girl in the neighborhood told my 9 y.o. daughter that her older sister's occasional live-in boyfriend was trying to mess around with her. We found out several weeks later and called CPS. They "investigated" (if you want to call it that) and nothing happened.


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> Child care laws and regulations vary greatly from state to state. The last time I looked into it there is licensing requirements for a certified "daycare" but if you just call it a babysitting service, then there are no regulations. But there are also no taxes, fees, requirements or inspections either. There are a lot of off-the-books daycares here because the certified daycares (which are usually not in homes) are large, loud and expensive. Plus you have to sit on a list waiting to get in. I work with Social Service and Child Protection a lot, so believe me when I tell you that unlicensed daycares are the least of their concerns. I can barely get them to do something when I am dealing with documented child neglect / abuse.


Boy what do you do with that conundrum? I guess you can only do what you can do, and hope for the best for those kids if your hands are tied eh?

Back to your original question "what would you do"...if things suddenly went to hell in a hand basket?

In that scenario I would do whatever was within my power to secure the safety of the children (food, clothing, shelter, medical attention) and I would certainly be mindful of whomever else in the neighborhood could assist until those children were reunited with their parents long or short term.

Perhaps it is a good thing to think about having a dialogue about all of this within your circle of neighbors whom you have good trust relationships with (if you feel led to). Better to be prepared for this type of hell in a hand basket scenario then not given it's right on your doorstep.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Don't call CPS. The parents of these children have made an informed decision of where to place their children for care. It seems apparent that low-cost is one of their primary concerns and it's quite likely that if this place is closed down and they need to find another place that the new daycare with a lower child:caregiver ratio is going to cost more and thus cause serious hardship for some of these parents.

Ultimately what these parents are facing is a CERTAINTY of higher costs versus a RISK of some accident occurring due to a lower level of adult supervision of the children. A CERTAINTY has to be dealt with but a risk need not ever materialize.

The simply point here is that the parents know better what is best for their families than do government bureaucrats.

As for Sentry18's plan, I'd say that if worse comes to worse, that he should do what he can from his base of operations and perhaps extend the security net over the daycare. As a wise retired CIA operative once told Greg Focker, there is a "Circle of Trust" and you have to be careful about who is in the circle, so the last thing I'd be considering is letting this woman into your circle of trust by relocating her and her charges into your secure location.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

I can remember running around outside with my bb gun. I still have boh eyes. There's a limit to the protection we can provide. Part of the reason for this country going down the crapper is people intruding into the lives of others.

I do think we need to protect children, but there is only so much money to go around(unless you want to pay more taxes).

In the end, people die, children get hurt and Darwin's theory is proven correct again and again. It is a fact of life and in a SHTF situation it will only get worse.

We, as consumers, are to blame for moms having to leave the home in the first place with over indulgences.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Not my problem


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Grimm said:


> What if it were my Roo...!?


Check and Mate. Question answered.

Just by asking the question, you already know the answer. Assuming the situation allows, you already know what you will do. You will at the very least check on them and make sure they are safe, and if you have to you will take care of them.
Right?


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

A long time ago there was a forum member who was on the show "Doomsday Preppers". She was a homesteader and reported that after the show aired there was a lot of manipulation of what was said and they even goaded people into saying things that were out of character. But the one thing that really caught my attention was when she said something like "I am not going to turn away a crying child so I can eat one day longer". That one sentence changed my perspective a little when it comes to helping others post-event. I will certainly not be a social program and the welcome mat will be riddled with bullet holes, but if a 4 year old day care child from next door is thrown out and comes to my house crying I am certainly not going to close the blinds and lock the door. The day care provider on the other hand, she may be on her own.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Sentry18 said:


> Not about my kids, they don't go to daycare.
> 
> There is a smaller house in our neighborhood that sat empty for almost a year until a few months ago when it was finally purchased by a couple in their early 30's. They have at least 3 small kids of their own and run an at-home daycare Mon-Fri. I would guess that there are around 12 kids in that house on a daily basis. The husband works construction and is only around on the weekends. There is an older teenage girl that seems to be around most days to help with the kids but that is it.
> 
> ...


I think you are dead on in what you would do. I don't see how anyone with an ounce of moral conviction could just turn their backs on the kiddos in a shtf situation. Good on ya Sentry.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> A long time ago there was a forum member who was on the show "Doomsday Preppers". She was a homesteader and reported that after the show aired there was a lot of manipulation of what was said and they even goaded people into saying things that were out of character. But the one thing that really caught my attention was when she said something like "I am not going to turn away a crying child so I can eat one day longer". That one sentence changed my perspective a little when it comes to helping others post-event. I will certainly not be a social program and the welcome mat will be riddled with bullet holes, but if a 4 year old day care child from next door is thrown out and comes to my house crying I am certainly not going to close the blinds and lock the door. The day care provider on the other hand, she may be on her own.


Yeah, when I saw that show (before becoming a member here) what Kathy said really did stick with me. I even bought her book.(the main reason she went on the show was to promote her book- which they never did!)


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> you have to do what you can to look after the little monsters, BUT what are the chances that you would be able to get home right away to do a lock down. There are all those citizens that will also need to be taken care of. Can you just drop what ever you are doing and go look after your family and neighbors right away??


The reason I hit the I like on this post is that you are correct in the sense that everyone has to do what they feel is their moral duty or obligation to do. If they feel their moral obligation or priority is helping the public in a SHTF situation, then that is what they should do.

I can only speak for myself when I say that if I were still in the L.E. buisness and the S--- seriously hit the fan and there was total anarchy everywhere, my #1 priority would be to my family and their safety.

So I guess my answer to your question of "can you just drop whatever you are doing and go look after your family and neighbors right away?", would be yes I could and would do just that because the welfare of my family is my number one concern and priority.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> Can you just drop what ever you are doing and go look after your family and neighbors right away??


This really depends on the nature of the event and how badly my family needed me. We have contingency plans in place and my home is far from unprotected when I am not there. Plus my home IS the immediate bug out location for two other men and their wives who are part of my survival group (and are both former military - and I am not talking standard issue foot soldiers).

Like Oldvet said, if things are bad and my family needed me now, they would come first and foremost. When the government falls I am pretty sure my employment contract is null and void. If the government doesn't fall, I will just keep on working.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Sentry, this is an interesting point that I've been meaning to bring up myself. We just started an in-home daycare. We have a baby due in November. So we will have 3 of our own kids and 6 others (due to state statute and insurance limits). It really adds a LOT of mouths to feed. 

I work in EMS. Largely similar to your career in some regards. Let's say a tornado goes through town and wipes out all the power (among other things). I'm gonna go to work (or be at work), same for you probably. Well, my wife is home with 9 kids! Uffda!

That's why we're looking into a standby generator next, like a generac. That way the wife can feed hungry kids for the day while parents venture to pick them up. I'm very interested to hear everyone's thoughts!


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

hawkmiles,I hope you have a shelter or basement to start with.Extra supplies,some extra kind of lights as it will take a few minutes to get everything started( even with a generator) and your wife will have her hands full,also maybe extra communication ,because everyone will panic at first and need to know their children are safe.I hope your wife has some extra help as you will be busy too and a extra cool head will help a ton.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Hawkmiles, I think that having a generator for back up power is the way to go, even if you are off the grid with wind and or solar power. 

Just imagine those children being hot and cranky, then imagine what your wife would be going through trying to take care of those hot and cranky kiddos.

My guess would be that it would probably not be a real good scene to come home to. :droolie::gaah::surrender:


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I would have an emergency plan in place and let the parents know what you will be doing if X happens. That way it eases their stress about their kids.

Bubby went to daycare (that also has a headstart program) that had one. They are out of the way enough that a flood wouldn't affect them, but mud slides and road shut downs would. The owners aunt and uncle lived across the highway from the daycare and own a large farm. If X happened, all the kids will be carpooled to the farm (lots of animals to distract them from whatever is going on),; its secluded, protected, and they are capable of taking care of the kids until all parents can pick them up. Don't know if they still have this, but it was a big relief when they told me.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> Sentry, this is an interesting point that I've been meaning to bring up myself. We just started an in-home daycare. We have a baby due in November. So we will have 3 of our own kids and 6 others (due to state statute and insurance limits). It really adds a LOT of mouths to feed.
> 
> I work in EMS. Largely similar to your career in some regards. Let's say a tornado goes through town and wipes out all the power (among other things). I'm gonna go to work (or be at work), same for you probably. Well, my wife is home with 9 kids! Uffda!
> 
> That's why we're looking into a standby generator next, like a generac. That way the wife can feed hungry kids for the day while parents venture to pick them up. I'm very interested to hear everyone's thoughts!


Very similar indeed. I think the generator is a very good idea, we have two (one gas and one propane). We stock and rotate fuel accordingly. I am very ignorant when it comes to electrical systems, but we have the generator system wired to power up the furnace/AC, hot water heater, man cave (i.e. safe room, which has a blacked out and caged window), one refrigerator, one freezer, one outlet in the kitchen and a couple other outlets. Your next concern need to be communications. Charged cell phone with extra power source is a good start.

My first thought beyond back up power, shelter and communication is to find a trusted friend who could come over and assist. It's hard to work on generators, secure your home or other things with 9 kids screaming and crying. Another adult would be as valuable as a generator. Even a teenager would be better than no one to assist. Perhaps one of the parents of the daycare kids could be enticed to stay and assist.

Second I would think shelter provisions and entertainment. If you have a basement or a shelter I would stock it with things that make kids happy as well as the basic needs. Crayons, fruit snacks, trail mix, a small TV/ DVD players with some Disney movies, Toys, diapers, potty chair, etc. Plan on singing a lot of songs, dancing around and having the cell phone ring from parents freaking out about their children.

Of course the time to plan and prepare is before anything happens. Then it's all about education and practice. It never hurts to run the little one's through a disaster drill from time to time. For them it could be fun, sitting in the basement and eating fruit snacks. Yum!


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Grimm said:


> *... I'd take in any little ones that were not claim. Yes, it would make my stores go faster but I couldn't let the child die because something happened and mom and dad couldn't get to them in time. What if it were my Roo...!?*


*

I've always figured that in a real EOTWAWKI situation, our family would grow.  Your comment makes me realize that I've never prepped for that, and I should. Because I fully expect that we will be taking in orphans...

But to protect the little ones until their parents get there... seems like a sticky situation (given the woman and environment). I would think you've a good plan, Sentry. I don't know that you would have to have the missus go meet the lady. Does the lady know you're in law enforcement? (Most people know when someone in law enforcement lives on their street.) That alone would probably be enough for her to trust you when the world goes to hell in a handbasket. I'm thinking if she's got 12 kids there and she's the only one in charge, she's probably going to be glad for help.*


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hawkmiles said:


> we're looking into a standby generator next, like a generac. I'm very interested to hear everyone's thoughts!


Generator = Yes!

Generac brand? Pass
20+ years ago they were GREAT, ever since Briggs bought them they are total garbage. When they break (not "if"), the minimum bill will be $2000 if you are lucky.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Sentry, I hope I'm not hijacking your thread here but staying on topic.



oldvet said:


> My guess would be that it would probably not be a real good scene to come home to. :droolie::gaah::surrender:


Haha you must know my wife?



gabbyj310 said:


> hawkmiles,I hope you have a shelter or basement to start with.Extra supplies,some extra kind of lights as it will take a few minutes to get everything started( even with a generator) and your wife will have her hands full,also maybe extra communication ,because everyone will panic at first and need to know their children are safe.I hope your wife has some extra help as you will be busy too and a extra cool head will help a ton.


She's gotten more on the "prepper" bandwagon with me gradually. After making fun of my flashlights, I made sure I got her a bigger better one! Good point on extra help too. Her sister has a daycare one block to the east. Our plan is for her to come with her children to our place to assist to pool resources.



Sentry18 said:


> Very similar indeed. I think the generator is a very good idea, we have two (one gas and one propane). We stock and rotate fuel accordingly. I am very ignorant when it comes to electrical systems, but we have the generator system wired to power up the furnace/AC, hot water heater, man cave (i.e. safe room, which has a blacked out and caged window), one refrigerator, one freezer, one outlet in the kitchen and a couple other outlets. Your next concern need to be communications. Charged cell phone with extra power source is a good start.
> 
> My first thought beyond back up power, shelter and communication is to find a trusted friend who could come over and assist. It's hard to work on generators, secure your home or other things with 9 kids screaming and crying. Another adult would be as valuable as a generator. Even a teenager would be better than no one to assist. Perhaps one of the parents of the daycare kids could be enticed to stay and assist.
> 
> ...


Our plan is to have her sister, who has a daycare come over from one block away. This can take time in the winter but otherwise it's pretty quick. Good idea with a daycare parent. Several of them are law enforcement officers of which I can contact on my work radio! I'm sure they'd be willing to help with things if their kids were involved. Your comments about a shelter make sense and I think I will move some of the extra supplies downstairs, so she wouldn't have to run upstairs to get things if SHTF.



LincTex said:


> Generator = Yes!
> 
> Generac brand? Pass
> 20+ years ago they were GREAT, ever since Briggs bought them they are total garbage. When they break (not "if"), the minimum bill will be $2000 if you are lucky.


Any good brands you recommend? I have seen bad reviews on Generac but I can't find much good information.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> Don't call CPS. The parents of these children have made an informed decision of where to place their children for care. It seems apparent that low-cost is one of their primary concerns and it's quite likely that if this place is closed down and they need to find another place that the new daycare with a lower child:caregiver ratio is going to cost more and thus cause serious hardship for some of these parents.
> 
> Ultimately what these parents are facing is a CERTAINTY of higher costs versus a RISK of some accident occurring due to a lower level of adult supervision of the children. A CERTAINTY has to be dealt with but a risk need not ever materialize.
> 
> ...


Never have I agreed with you so wholeheartedly Bobbb. The parents are the ones to make the decision. My children weren't out of my sight for a second until they were 5, that was my way to parent. No one has any idea why the parents choose this placement their reasons might surprise some.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

My daughter has our Addison in daycare.She is a single Mom,and has to work.Her daycare center is super professional and they have extra food and do fire drills.They have a "scanner" for you hands before you enter to get the children as well as codes and permission cards signed,and this is all fine and great...but.....no basement.They have any and everything that is right and good.They have extra teachers,extra food but the ONE thing she forgot when she bought the building was the need for a basement or other shelter.It concerns us after all the tornados we've seen.But Addison is already "settled" in this daycare and we don't want to disrupt her and move to another(it's rating is as high as you can get in TN)but still grandma worry's a lot!!!!!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hawkmiles said:


> Any good brands you recommend? I have seen bad reviews on Generac but I can't find much good information.


First, let me state this: If you want the best standby set with no compromises, you will need to look for a diesel powered set, and they start somewhere around $8000 and go up from there. Or, you could build one like I did for less than $1500, but I don't know your knowledge level. I also have an older Onan 4KW genset that came out of a 70's RV (a whole $200!), and that is what my wife is familiar with. If the power goes out and I am not there, she can use it. It's plumbed for natural gas right now.

If you want a new unit,

Choice #1
http://www.kohlergenerators.com/home-generators/generators-101/index.html
8.5RES MSRP $3,499.00*

Choice #2
http://www.cumminsonan.com/residential/products/homestandby/compare?gensetId=104&detail=true
Cummins-Onan 13kW Generator
RS13A Price: $4,499.00

Here is why I made these choices.
The Kohler unit uses a Kohler Command PRO engine, which is a GOOD made in the USA engine. The Cummins/Onan specs and literature REFUSE to state where their engine is sourced from, and that is bad news to me. My best guess is it might be a Subaru engine, and if it is - they should be proud to state that because Subaru makes a good small engine.

Engines to AVOID at all costs:
Briggs and Stratton
Generac
Kohler Courage (The Courage is Chinese)


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Both of my generators are Yamaha. A local fleet and farm store sells them (and 3 or so other brands). I asked the salesman if he owned a generator and he said "You bet I do". I asked what he had and he said the Yamaha 6600. I asked if he liked it and he said "I like it a lot. Think of the Yamaha as a slightly improved Honda generator for less money". So that's what I bought. Never had any issues with them, they start easy and are reasonably quiet. But note that my advice on things like this is comparable to my advice when it comes to feminine hygiene products. I have to rely on the experience and knowledge of others.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hawkmiles.... what are wanting to do with the generator? Do you want a standby like the ones I posted, or a portable like the ones Sentry is talking about?


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm looking definately for a standby generator and I am leaning towards Natural Gas actually. I don't know much about generators except what I've read but I am rather handy, and am proficient enough to do the wiring myself.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

What is the benefit of a standby generator versus a portable? I see that they cost a LOT more than I paid and are stationary. The one I looked at produced 20,000 watts versus my combined 18,6000. But I can take mine with if I need to bug out (under certain conditions). My first Yamaha is a 6600 and my second one is a 12000, but I have never actually needed the 6600 since I bought the larger one for the limited things I have connected to it. I just keep it around as an emergency backup. Am I missing something that the modern day uber prepper should have?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> Am I missing something that the modern day uber prepper should have?


Not really.
"Less-Tech-Savvy" will enjoy the simple convenience of a mounted unit hard wired to a transfer switch (usually automatic)

For the rest of us, are portables that are moved where we want them (as long as the gas line still reaches, LOL!) and we can get pretty creative with home-made power distribution boxes, sub panels, etc.


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## MsSage (Mar 3, 2012)

I already know what I will do. In 2002 there was a major ice storm in Charlotte. The power was out and going to be out for a few days LOL I knew my daughters friend her parent had no way to keep warm or feed her so I went over and asked if she could come stay with us offered mom the opportunity to come by (walking distance) get a hot meal and if need a warm spot on the floor. She said Thanks but no thanks BUT yes please take daughter with me. On the way home I stopped at 3 other houses and picked up 6 kids total. These were my kids friends and neighbors. All was good for the first night and next day BUT then the second night we got 4 inches of snow on top of the ice....we were NOT gong anywhere for a good while. I had all the kids for the 15 days we were stuck, a couple of the parents came by twice a day for hot meals, see the kids, and get coffee for the night.
Yes my kids are grown BUT I am still the same person I was.....yes I do prep for extra not a bunch but the children are our future. They can be taught and mindsets can be changed.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I much prefer the 2 smaller generator system, And I would try to make sure that they each ran on a different fuel, natural gas is great, but it is grid tied, unless the compressor stations use gas fired engines to pump the gas, the line pressure may fade fairly quickly, or be shut off in case of an earth quake or fire type situation. Hyundia seems to make a decent low buck generator, it may not be a Honda, but it isn't Red lion or champion.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

In the event of a sudden SHTF event I'd watch the house from a distance and help out if they had a problem with outsiders. I would expect that even if there was an EMP that somebody would show up for their kids. Even if they had to carry them home.

I would expect a major economic event on the way to the collapse that would end daycare. Like $10, $15, or $20 a gallon gas.

If necessary I would take in a child that needed help. Sometime ago I got the feeling that God was telling me that we'll be taking in a little girl after the collapse.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Yeah I just prepfer a standby generator because an automatic transfer switch can turn on. Because in the event of a power outage I will be gone or leaving ASAP for work and the wife will be home alone with 10 kids. She's not gonna go outside in any type of weather to start a generator.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hawkmiles said:


> the wife will be home alone with 10 kids. She's not gonna go outside in any type of weather to start a generator.


Good point. I never put a remote start in the house for our Onan because the "primer" button is on the side of the demand regulator. Even if she could start it from in the house, the breaker panel is outside by the driveway, and she would still need to go out to transfer power. We have never been able to afford a dedicated "automatic - standby" set.

I guess if it is that bad, she's just going to have to light a candle and wait for me to get home!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Just to play devil's advocate here. Wouldn't an automatic dedicated standby unit turn on if you want it to or not and then make your house the lone beacon of light in your neighborhood (if night time)? I had an electrician wire mine so that only certain places in certain rooms have power; but I have to go outside, flip a switch and start the generator on my own. My generators are also surprisingly quiet, unlike the large (I presume) diesel generators at work.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Good point about the opsec issue Sentry. The model I've been looking at would actually do 8 breakers; I certainly couldn't justify the whole house. But I imagine I could be smart about it and only power lights not visible from the street. The noise issue is a big concern too. Especially beings we have some ghetto slums 2 blocks away (in our small town).


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

My Onan sits on a 5" thick slab poured over a bed of sand and surrounded by cinderblocks. The airflow in and out is baffled. The exhaust goes into a huge muffler buried underground. You can't hear hardly anything from 50 feet away. My closest neighbors are a lot farther away than that. 

I would not use it at all during the night. We have 12volt LED bulbs (on a separate solar-charged 12VDC circuit) in almost every room.


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