# Sharing,Trading Seeds Now Against T Law



## Meerkat

I just read that Dept Of Ag. said no swapping,sharing or trading.

Rep says ' Everybody thinks we are the big, evil,bad government,but we are here to help' paraphrase.

It seems to interfere with their plan to force gmo and hybrids on everyone so their corporations control all food.

You can search it or ignore it because I can't paste site.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I dont see how they could hope to enforce such a policy.


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## Woody

CrackbottomLouis said:


> I dont see how they could hope to enforce such a policy.


Little by little, inch by inch, one degree at a time until the water is boiling.

I believe in England they have a seed registry now. They made a list of approved varieties of vegetable seeds that are approved to grow in private gardens, for our own safety of course. It is only a matter of time before folks accept this and the few hold out seed savers are turned in by neighbors for growing state unapproved varieties. Then they can narrow the list, little by little, one at a time, for our own safety of course.

Ridiculous you say? Could never happen?? Well.. Take a look at our First Amendment to the Constitution of the United Sates. Are there places now called "free speech zones"? Have folks been prosecuted for "hate speech"? Have people been penalized for expressing their opinions in the United States of America? Still don't believe me? Go down to your local Courthouse and stand on the front steps in the middle of the day. Grab a soap box and start expressing YOUR opinion about what is wrong with your community. Speak out against some of the regulations the legislators have passed, that you disagree with. See how long before you are 'escorted' off the property and charged with something like 'disturbing the peace'.


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## gam46

My brief research shows that some states disallow the free trading and sharing, even of heirloom vegetable seeds through what are called seed libraries. Sometimes the libraries are allowed to continue by using commercially packaged seed. Sounds like another way to support big ag and discourage those whose interest is self sufficiency.


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## Genevieve

looks like we need to go to using code words now for seeds.

dopers have been using code words for decades when speaking over the phone. I've heard everything from calling dope: make-up,chex mix, and red velvet cake

"the chair is against the wall" 

* if you don't know what that pertains to it's from the original Red Dawn*


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## squerly

Making seed trade a crime, storing rain water, cutting certain trees from your land, etc. These are all things that tend to piss off those people who are paying attention but are overlooked by people who are busy with their lives.

But every now-and-then, someone gets really pissed and a Brady revolt gears up. Just to let the government know that the people have had enough.


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## tc556guy

I just read the article on yahoo earlier this morning
It sounds like they are also thinking about modifying these existing laws, which predate formalized seed banks, by allowing small informal sharing such as what preppers have normally done


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## Woody

Of course they will make exception at first! But then... it will be "unfair" to allow some to bypass the "law." For your own good, for the good of the children, everyone needs to be on the same page.

Think back to what happened to innocent until proven guilty, or needing an actual reason to arrest someone. The IRS can now just take all your stuff, and leave it to you to prove you do not owe what they say you do. "Civil forfeiture", Whatever you have MIGHT have been gotten through an illegal act or used for an illegal act. YOU have to prove it wasn't to get it back. You can be arrested, with no charge only suspicion, and held for 48 hours. Or in the case of "the war on terror" held for years with no formal charge or trial.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I would love to hear the rationale behind the law. Typically government only steps in when they can explain away their obvious unjust intrusion into our lives by aiming to protect us from hidden dangers that we are just too stupid to recognize as dangers because we are the thumb suckling populace. Where is the supposed danger in a non government approved seed? Oddly shaped and less nutritious produce? Non patriotic radishes?


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## Momturtle

I guess we could all engage in a recipe exchange. Apparently the law is to prevent the passing off of seeds that do not meet germination guidelines. Maybe if you write "You are lucky if any of these come up" on the envelope they will be legit. It does seem like just one more interference in the lives of people that are trying to get by without building up the corporate/GMO/hybrid commercial agriculture situation. It also ties in with the European law which has been instituted which forbids seed saving of any kind -- how about that for a law that is begging to be broken.


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## Viking

Meerkat said:


> I just read that Dept Of Ag. said no swapping,sharing or trading.
> 
> Rep says ' Everybody thinks we are the big, evil,bad government,but we are here to help' paraphrase.
> 
> It seems to interfere with their plan to force gmo and hybrids on everyone so their corporations control all food.
> 
> You can search it or ignore it because I can't paste site.


Yeah, I ran across the article on Yahoo, it was about selling seeds out of libraries but mentioned the, so called concern of having weed seeds in saved seeds. Seeds have been saved for decades and there have been people that had a service of seed cleaning with equipment they used in traveling to different farms to do that service. I read a few month back about a seed cleaning service that got ordered to stop doing it and I seem to remember it had something to do with patented seeds and the big agra companies threatening law suites. GMO and hybrids as Meerkat has mentioned. There was a time that it was common practice for farmers to save seeds, now days the PTB wants everyone to be beholden to them, sadly a great deal of family farming ends up with the owners dieing in debt. My wife's grandfather died even owing the food market.


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## RevWC

Genevieve said:


> looks like we need to go to using code words now for seeds.
> 
> dopers have been using code words for decades when speaking over the phone. I've heard everything from calling dope: make-up,chex mix, and red velvet cake
> 
> "the chair is against the wall"
> 
> * if you don't know what that pertains to it's from the original Red Dawn*


Red Velvet Cake! mmmmmmmmm! :droolie:


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## RevWC

I sent my Congress Representative $10 bucks to stop GMO seeds from Monsanto  and this is the rest of the story..


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## SouthCentralUS

There will be a seed swap in the large city closest to where I live in Feb. I plan on attending. It is in a public building and has been publicized.


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## Alfred_E_Neuman

Could it be they see this as a underground economy or method of dodging taxes?


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## Woody

As an admitted Tin Foil hat wearer... I do believe that is a major influence behind a lot of "laws" and regulations.

From as far back as Prohibition, where they realized they were losing a lot of tax revenue, to today. They passed laws to make cars more energy efficient so we would buy less gas. It worked... too well! Now, they miss their fair share and are coming up with other ways "to make up for that loss of revenue." I posted an article not too long ago where city ELECTED officials were suing the voters because the voters VOTED to get rid of red light cameras. The ELECTED officials are suing the people who voted them into office for loss of revenue.

It is now not a matter of what WE want, it is what THEY think is good for us... and for revenue generation also of course.


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## Moby76065

I've given up on laws.
I just try to do what I think is right and to hell with the ink.


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## TrinEire

Genevieve said:


> looks like we need to go to using code words now for seeds.
> 
> dopers have been using code words for decades when speaking over the phone. I've heard everything from calling dope: make-up,chex mix, and red velvet cake
> 
> "the chair is against the wall"
> 
> * if you don't know what that pertains to it's from the original Red Dawn*


So, I'm picturing a tractor pulling up to the burbs, slickly handing a wad of cash with a hand shake, and a non descript packet being shuffled between both parties, then the tractor pulling off. Lol.


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## crabapple

I am not sure GMO's are a big deal.
I however can not see how anyone can know I am shipping seeds.
I have a invasive wild garlic, Allium Vineale.
I found it on a web site, email to say what you sell this stuff???
They had me gather this invasive plant & paid me to mail it to them.
They can not grow it fast enough for the people in the area.
If the Post Master does not ask about home grown seeds, I will never tell.


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## ContinualHarvest

I understand the importance of making sure the seeds are not those of invasive species and are of a baseline quality but these laws were written in a way that protects Big Ag by Big Ag lobbyists. Honestly, these kind of laws make people just swap seeds on the down-low and drives it underground thus undermining the legitimacy of seed libraries and local swap events.


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## Gians

*ABC news*

From: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/seed-libraries-struggle-state-laws-limiting-exchanges-27861926

Seed Libraries Struggle With State Laws Limiting Exchanges
DES MOINES, Iowa - Dec 28, 2014, 10:18 AM ET
By SCOTT McFETRIDGE Associated Press

" For thousands of years, people have exchanged seeds to grow terrific tomatoes or produce the perfect potato, but a new effort to loan and borrow seeds has created a conflict between well-meaning gardeners and state agriculture officials who feel obligated to enforce laws restricting the practice.

Seed exchanges have sprouted up in about 300 locations around the country, most often in libraries, where gardeners can exchange self-pollinating seeds rather than buy standard, hybrid seeds. In spots like Duluth, Minnesota, the conflict with agriculture departments has surprised gardeners and library officials, who established exchanges to meet a growing interest in locally grown food and preserving certain varieties, never thinking to examine the intricacies of state seed laws.

"It's about the philosophy, the legacy of shared seeds," Duluth Library Manager Carla Powers said. Its seed exchange is operated by library employees and volunteers out of a converted wardrobe. "It's about sharing with our friends and neighbors in the community."

Agriculture officials say they weren't looking for a fight but felt obligated as they became aware of the increasingly popular seed libraries to enforce laws, which are largely uniform across the country.

Intended to protect farmers, the laws ensure seeds are viable, will grow the intended plant and aren't mixed with unwanted seeds for weeds or plants. Even though most of the laws refer to "sales" of seeds, that term is defined to include exchanges ? where no money changes hands.

"Everybody thinks we're the big, evil, bad government, but it's much more complicated than people are aware," said Geir Friisoe, director of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture's Plant Protection Division.

The issue first arose last summer in Pennsylvania, when a state inspector became aware of a seed exchange at a public library in Mechanicsburg that appeared to violate the law.

State Agriculture Department Deputy Secretary Jay Howes said his office "sent them a nice letter" that outlined the problem, noting seed distributed by the library needed to be tested and the library would have to be licensed. State officials and the library quickly resolved the situation by agreeing to hold one-day seed swaps, Howes said.

Despite the agreement, some were puzzled about why the state had demanded changes. The department felt it was wrongly portrayed as cracking down on well-intentioned gardeners, when officials had little choice.

"When state law was written, probably 10 years ago, there was no such thing as a seed library, so the law didn't anticipate this," Howes said.

Advocates of seed-sharing programs said they don't necessarily blame agriculture departments, but some express frustration that laws focus on the needs of modern hybrid seed producers while limiting age-old, person-to-person seed exchanges.

It's hard to justify restricting the small-scale exchanges, according to John Torgrimson, the executive director of the Seed Savers Exchange, which maintains a seed bank of more than 20,000 varieties. His Decorah, Iowa-based group meets the standards of all U.S. seed laws.

"There's almost no danger," he said. "This is not a risk to agriculture in any state. This is not a risk to our food supply."

Betsy Goodman established a seed library at an Omaha, Nebraska, library branch in 2012. This year, patrons checked out nearly 5,000 packets, and the program will expand to two more branches on Jan. 1.

"As a farmer, I understand why these laws are in place," said Goodman, who works at an organic farm. But, she added, "Regenerating your own seed is a human right."

Despite the existence of several seed libraries in Nebraska, they're probably not legal. David Svik, who heads Nebraska's seed control office, said if the organizers of such libraries persist, he'll likely seek guidance from a state attorney about how to proceed. The issue also might arise in the Nebraska Legislature, Svik said.

Friisoe said his office will propose changing Minnesota law to allow occasional exchanges and those operated by charitable groups.

Meanwhile, Oakland, California-based Sustainable Economies Law Center is providing information to seed libraries about state laws, including an online "Seed Law Tool Shed" that compiles relevant sections. Neil Thapar, a lawyer for the center, said his group planned to help state legislatures draft measures that would allow the libraries.

"We think it's a right people have," Thapar said. "It's part of our culture." "


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## Woody

"_State Agriculture Department Deputy Secretary Jay Howes said his office "sent them a nice letter" that outlined the problem, noting seed distributed by the library needed to be tested and the library would have to be licensed._"

There ya go. Looking out for our best interests and to protect the children. Licenses aren't free. And the inspections that come with them are not usually either. Testing isn't free. Yet... The seeds are! I wonder who is going to suck up this expense?

I know I look at things different from most folks. But... If someone is offering something for free, you can either take it or not. Let's say I go to one of these exchanges and like a packet of green beans. Guy says they are the best!! I take them and trade him some seeds I brought. We are both happy. I plant them and they turn out to be wax beans!!!! If my whole winter food stock was planning on these seeds, who is the fool? I can't for the life of me think of anyone who wouldn't plant their usual crop and just make a test plot of the new seeds, to see how they do. Now, if I BUY them from a regular seed company and this happens, it is a different matter.

Maybe our best and brightest miss the whole point of "seed exchanges" in the first place. Maybe a lot of sheeple do also? They are not a place to get and get your future winter food from free seeds, they are a place to TRADE varieties to see if you like them or not. Hey, maybe *I* am missing the point of them! Why bother with the time and effort to save seeds from my crop when I can just go get them all for free?


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## Utopian

Whatever happened to democracy?


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## Starcreek

*Update...*

*Sign Now!*​ 10,164 signatures
​ *Additional Background:*

After Pennsylvania's Department of Agriculture adopted a policy restricting the Simpson Seed Library in Mechanicsburg, PA from sharing locally saved seed, several states have followed suit, threatening the continued existence of seed libraries. Seed laws exist to regulate entities that sell or commercially exchange seeds. A seed library is a noncommercial nonprofit, cooperative, or governmental organization that donates seed and receives donations of seed, especially by encouraging members to learn about seed saving and donate seeds to the library. Donation of seed is not required in a seed library, so the sharing of seeds does not even rise to the level of barter or exchange, let alone sell. Seed libraries are far different in nature and scale than commercial seed companies and need to be appropriately recognized under the law to protect their ability to continue freely sharing seeds in communities across the country.










*Sponsored By:*


































​


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## tc556guy

Utopian said:


> Whatever happened to democracy?


I don't know; we aren't a democracy, so the condition OF democracy is irrelevant


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## Tirediron

Yes your a republic, but sadly going from a respectable constitutional republic to a Monkey run banana republic vract: vract:


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## StevieQ

WOw just wow They are winning, with all the fre.... Problems in this world today, we still have time and taxpayer money to inforce such things?


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## ras1219como

Seem kind of like a lot of asinine laws. A few well intentioned yet woefully ignorant law makers came up with what they thought was a good idea. They put it down on paper and it was passed into law. Now we have a law that was intended to do a particular thing but is being applied in such a way that it restricts something else entirely. Typical.


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## sewserious

Actually I think they knew exactly what they were doing. Now that the laws are on the books it will be much harder to get them changed. Would be interested in seeing the bills that contained these laws. Betcha these little tidbits were buried deep inside something that wasn't even related.


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## TheLazyL

Another slow day and the County Seed Inspector (CSI) is leaning back in his well worn leather chair surveying his office.

Office could use a coat of new paint. Carpet is looking dated too. Desk was a hand me down from the Welfare Dept, that got it from the Sheriff's Office when the Commissioners got new desks and gave their old ones to the Sheriff.

Last time CSI asked the Commissioners for a budget increase they cut his budget instead.

After paying his salary there isn't any money left in the budget for paint, let alone carpet.

Hmmm. His wife been telling him about a seed fair the Library is sponsoring. Took him the rest of the afternoon (even missed his regular afternoon nap)to find a law on the books he could use, all seeds must be inspected for the protection of the environment and the County.

Next stop was upstairs to the Commissioners office to warn them of the potential danger of the seed fair. Commissioners were up for reelection and had some "improvements" they felt were necessary too. This would give them the excuse they were looking for to raise taxes. Never let a good crisis go unused. A press conference was arranged.

At the next council meeting an emergency approbations was quickly passed to hire a Secretary for CSI, typewriter, another desk, copying machine and miscellaneous unnamed emergency supplies (paint, carpet and a new high-back leather chair).

While his new double C blonde secretary was typing up a draft letter to send out to all potential violators, CSI rode shotgun with the county Deputy.

As the Deputy drove up and down every county road the CSI wrote down every location and address where he could start enforcement actions. Enforcement was fair (to the county) and the revenue and fines made a fine addition to the counties coffers.

5 years later the CSI had a brand new office. An Chief Assistant CSI and 3 Secretaries (the double C was his personal Secretary that he took on the out of town business fact finding trips), 5 gofers and a 3 take home vehicles.

The CSI started to get the unpleasant feeling that more then a few of the County Citizens would love to meet him in a dark alley plus the newly elected radical conservative County Commissioner started to ask unpleasant questions about the CSI's duties. So he wrangled a position with the State for himself and his Executive Secretary as the States Chief Seed Inspector. And the process of a government lackey sucking on the Taxpayer teat started all over again.


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## crabapple

What if I wanted to send you okra, but I sent you dried okra pods for dried arrangements. What you did with the spare pods is nun of my or the Gov. business.


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