# Scary if true!



## Magus

http://w3.newsmax.com/a/currency-wars/video_uwr.cfm?s=al&promo_code=1231C-1


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## k0xxx

If you do a Yahoo News search for Currency War, and there is a lot of articles discussing the fact that we are either in the opening salvos or that we will be soon. There's also quite a bit of denial stories from the IMF (not that I give any stock to their opinions). Whether it is a full blown currency war or not, we can't print and continue to print so much money without consequences. Personally, I'm headed for the bunker... ;?)


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## Dude111

I do think its a good idea!


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## Magus

I never thought being broke could be a plus, all those guys who saved all their lives just to see it devalued to less than a third will probably drop dead on the spot!

Never could figure out those guys who'd trade me a perfectly good rifle or food for a stack of green paper with pics of dead masons on them.


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## mojo4

When you print money at insane rates you gotta realize at some time you will pay the piper. And the piper is just about done playing and is ready for cashout time.


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## Attila

The treasury prints money like Scott Paper prints toilet paper. Simply put you cannot print money like we've been doing and not have a day of reckoning. An complete economic collapse is as certain as the sun rising in the east.


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## machinist

*The Book*

Titled "Currency Wars" by James Rickards is what I'm reading at the moment. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1591845564

Rickards has serious credibility, having been recruited as the financial consultant for military wargaming of a financial attack on the US. He lays out the previous 2 currency wars, and goes into depth about how this is being played out. Yes, it is true, and it is scary stuff.

The idea is to devalue your currency so that you can pay your debts with "printed money", and make your exports cheaper for other countries to buy, keeping jobs at home. Then, the other countries retaliate in kind, and soon everyone's currency is cheapened, and all goods cost a lot more. The GOODS are not more "expensive"--their value stayed the same--the CURRENCY is worth less. Right up until it is worthless, as in Germany in the 1920's, and Zimbabwe in the recent past.

The motive to KEEP ON devaluing is there, because if you don't, you can't sell much to others. It is a race to the bottom, and NOBODY WINS.

The level of nations' debt if frightening, and the implication of where we are now is even more so. The US is deeply in debt, we import a large % of our energy, and much of our manufactured goods. Not good to need imports when your currency is becoming worth less each day. Expect much higher prices for oil, coffee, China Crap, etc..


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## invision

It's actually what Obama has done to Iran, crash their economy by devaluing their currency...


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## Magus

I think we're screwed.


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## invision

Magus said:


> I think we're screwed.


Your just NOW thinking that?? Lol welcome to the club...


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## k0xxx

FED DEBATES INDEFINITE PUMP

"The Fed will keep buying bonds to hold down borrowing costs." They have to keep borrowing to keep interest rates near zero. Once interest rates start going up, servicing the debt will get very expensive real quick and it will either require massive cuts in spending and/or even more bond buying, thus accelerating the cycle even more until it is unsustainable.


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## machinist

*James Rickards Ideas*

He's the author of that book I posted about, Currency Wars, and he is pretty much an insider, as a consultant to govt. functionaries.

In an interview questioning him about gold, Rickards said that the central banks want the price of gold to go up, since that is what devaluation MEANS. However, they want it to be in an orderly fashion, with no panics that would threaten the acceptance of the dollar.

Then he quantifies what that would mean, by saying the price of gold would rise to $5,000 to $7,000 an ounce. The interview was done in 2008 when the price of gold was bouncing around between $750 and $1,000 an ounce, or an average of maybe $825.

Now, do some simple math. A target price for gold of say, $6,000, divided by the 2008 average price of $825, gives us a factor of 7.27 to one, devaluation goal. That is pretty severe. Assume that prices on everything will go up by a factor of 7X, and see where that puts you. 











Note that he makes a remark in the interview somewhere to the effect that the govt. would do something to tax away gold "profits", or do a 1933 style grab of it. He doesn't reccomend to hold more than 10% of your assets in gold. I don't reccomend owning gold at all, unless you are filthy rich, and then not in the US, per Marc Faber.

You can get the gist of the Currency Wars book in 5 videos on Rickards blog site here: 
http://jimrickards.blogspot.com/


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## Friknnewguy

Attila said:


> The treasury prints money like Scott Paper prints toilet paper. Simply put you cannot print money like we've been doing and not have a day of reckoning. An complete economic collapse is as certain as the sun rising in the east.


Could be soon that the toilet paper is of more value than the printed dollars .


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## invision

Friknnewguy said:


> Could be soon that the toilet paper is of more value than the printed dollars .


It already is, but no one is ready to admit it yet! :ignore:


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## DamnYankee

What should I do with my IRA? I would hate to take the hit on penalties but I would hate to lose it all even worse.


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## Magus

invision said:


> Your just NOW thinking that?? Lol welcome to the club...


Actually I was waiting on a solar flare or a PRNK EMP attack or worse.:brickwall:


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## invision

Sorry bro, i really think an economic collapse will happen before EMP...


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## Brennen53

So this might be dumb question, cause surely no one actually knows... But what would be a rough time frame for something like this? I mean 50 years? 5? less?? 
This scares the shit out of me as me or my family is no where near prepared for this!


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## invision

Brennen53 said:


> So this might be dumb question, cause surely no one actually knows... But what would be a rough time frame for something like this? I mean 50 years? 5? less??
> This scares the shit out of me as me or my family is no where near prepared for this!


What financial collapse? 3-5 years... cant go much further with the debt we have now...


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## k0xxx

invision said:


> What financial collapse? 3-5 years... cant go much further with the debt we have now...


I felt the same way back in the 80's when US debt first hit the trillion dollar mark. I told myself that this can't go on for long. Every time we hit a new debt ceiling I say the same thing. The only difference now is that the percentage of debt to GDP is getting high, and that is what is going to do us in (I believe).

Debt as a percentage of GDP was actually worse during the mid 1940's, with WWII. The big difference was that we didn't have the huge unfunded liability problem that we have now. If you take into account the money that we have promised to pay out for medicare, SS, SSI, etc., over the next twenty years, instead of 16 trillion in debt, the number is closer to 120 trillion. Downright scary, and anyone that thinks that it will be possible to pay those obligations, without hyper-inflationary money printing, is fooling themselves.


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## machinist

k0xxx,

You were pretty close to being right in 1980. Without the 22% prime rate for a while to cool down the inflation, we were headed for dollar collapse then. 

But we didn't learn anything from that experience. Instead, it seems like as a nation we became unbearably arrogant with regard to our ability to spend what we had to borrow. What cannot last forever--won't.

We don't have the solid economy and manufacturing base of 1980 to pull our butts out of the fire now. We are simply broke and in debt. Not good. I've been in that position personally, but without the govt's ability to print money. Took me years to get out of the hole, and that's what it looks like for our nation's future.


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## invision

k0xxx said:


> I felt the same way back in the 80's when US debt first hit the trillion dollar mark. I told myself that this can't go on for long. Every time we hit a new debt ceiling I say the same thing. The only difference now is that the percentage of debt to GDP is getting high, and that is what is going to do us in (I believe).
> 
> Debt as a percentage of GDP was actually worse during the mid 1940's, with WWII. The big difference was that we didn't have the huge unfunded liability problem that we have now. If you take into account the money that we have promised to pay out for medicare, SS, SSI, etc., over the next twenty years, instead of 16 trillion in debt, the number is closer to 120 trillion. Downright scary, and anyone that thinks that it will be possible to pay those obligations, without hyper-inflationary money printing, is fooling themselves.


So in your opinion - you think I am close k0xxx? I short cutted the answer somewhat by not going into unfunded liabilities... About the only way I see a way out is a controlled bankruptcy, but that is going to not only wipe out two generations of wealth, but without proper guidance - it could turn world wide... We aren't the only country in this shape...


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## goshengirl

DamnYankee said:


> What should I do with my IRA? I would hate to take the hit on penalties but I would hate to lose it all even worse.


I'm in the same boat, wondering. My husband was all for cashing it out and putting into land, until he found out the percentage of penalties. The way I figure it, though, is that if we don't do anything, it's 100% gone...


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## Startingout-Blair

goshengirl said:


> I'm in the same boat, wondering. My husband was all for cashing it out and putting into land, until he found out the percentage of penalties. The way I figure it, though, is that if we don't do anything, it's 100% gone...


But if nothing happens, then you've lost that (30%???) for nothing. Always a hard choice!


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## Viking

Some of the commentators on Kitco that I have read are saying that by the end of Obama's second term the debt level could be $20 to $25 trillion. Last time I looked at the U.S. Debt Clock the debt to GDP ratio was 105% and growing. Overall debt when all unfunded liabilities, credit and derivatives are added up some who know what's really going on are saying the economy is 1.5 quadrillion in debt. These levels of debt couldn't be cleared if everything on the USA soil was sold to pay it down. Yes we are up the poopy creek without a paddle. Or like I wrote to a friend yesterday, our so called leaders have unscrewed the rudder from the ship of state and we're headed for the rocks. It's not known when but it's definitely going to happen, some of the economists that I've heard are saying that we might start seeing some bad stuff beginning in March. If you think you're not prepped enough just keep doing something because that something may just save your butt.


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## invision

Viking said:


> Some of the commentators on Kitco that I have read are saying that by the end of Obama's second term the debt level could be $20 to $25 trillion. Last time I looked at the U.S. Debt Clock the debt to GDP ratio was 105% and growing. Overall debt when all unfunded liabilities, credit and derivatives are added up some who know what's really going on are saying the economy is 1.5 quadrillion in debt. These levels of debt couldn't be cleared if everything on the USA soil was sold to pay it down. Yes we are up the poopy creek without a paddle. Or like I wrote to a friend yesterday, our so called leaders have unscrewed the rudder from the ship of state and we're headed for the rocks. It's not known when but it's definitely going to happen, some of the economists that I've heard are saying that we might start seeing some bad stuff beginning in March. If you think you're not prepped enough just keep doing something because that something may just save your butt.


I haven't seen as bad as your saying or the time lines either.. However, I think your right on about inflation.. If we start to see that ticking up steadily over a 6-12 month period, I don't think the fed will have anything in their bags of tricks to stop it, and Obama will start pointing fingers at everyone.. Gonna get interesting that is for sure...


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## BillS

Brennen53 said:


> So this might be dumb question, cause surely no one actually knows... But what would be a rough time frame for something like this? I mean 50 years? 5? less??
> This scares the shit out of me as me or my family is no where near prepared for this!


It could happen in the next few months, according to John Williams at shadowstats.com:


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## BillS

Startingout-Blair said:


> But if nothing happens, then you've lost that (30%???) for nothing. Always a hard choice!


But the dollar will be worthless eventually. You can't create $50 billion out of thin air every month without eventually destroying the dollar. Hyperinflation is a 100% certainty. There's no debate. Just a question of when.


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## BillS

DamnYankee said:


> What should I do with my IRA? I would hate to take the hit on penalties but I would hate to lose it all even worse.


Take it out. Pay the penalty. Buy junk silver dimes. I bought mine here:

http://www.providentmetals.com/coins/us-silver-coins/coin-90-silver-us-junk.html


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## BillS

machinist said:


> k0xxx,
> 
> You were pretty close to being right in 1980. Without the 22% prime rate for a while to cool down the inflation, we were headed for dollar collapse then.
> 
> But we didn't learn anything from that experience. Instead, it seems like as a nation we became unbearably arrogant with regard to our ability to spend what we had to borrow. What cannot last forever--won't.
> 
> We don't have the solid economy and manufacturing base of 1980 to pull our butts out of the fire now. We are simply broke and in debt. Not good. I've been in that position personally, but without the govt's ability to print money. Took me years to get out of the hole, and that's what it looks like for our nation's future.


It's not arrogance. Obama and the Federal Reserve are determined to destroy America and destroy the dollar. That's why Obama has greatly expanded spending and greatly expanded the number of Americans receiving help from the federal government. He wants nothing to do with spending cuts.


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## Magus

Watch the 401K too, Bombo has mentioned confiscating them in the past!

I'd get food myself, just in case it gets worse than the great depression!


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## BillS

What they don't tell you about devaluing currencies is that the costs of raw materials and food will go through the roof. It doesn't help us with our exports if oil costs $1,000 a barrel.


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## Viking

Some of our friends and family probably think we're crazy but I tell them numbers don't lie, debt levels such as we have cannot be supported for long. There will be a collapse and I'm thinking that it will probably even take our breathes away even though we understand what's going on. It will probably pain us deeply to see friends and family suffer, but in most cases we've warned them and we can't be pulled down so those who come to us better have something to offer as not to deplete what we've set aside for that "Rainy Day".


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## machinist

BillS said:


> What they don't tell you about devaluing currencies is that the costs of raw materials and food will go through the roof. It doesn't help us with our exports if oil costs $1,000 a barrel.


+1,000!

EVERYONE LOSES in a currency war. It will take a long time to get through the mess, longer if bad decisions are made at high levels. Assume that your income, if you can maintain an income, will be cut by whatever factor the dollar is devalued, that is, prices would go UP by that factor. Experts that I have read say anywhere from 3, 4, or 5 to one, and some say more than that. That easily makes the US into a 3rd world country, where most of a person's income is needed for food.

Hard goods and consumables are the best hedge I know about. The first consideration is your own daily needs, so arrange to store enough for a while. Then, plan on growing food and providing for long term sources of water and heat for cooking and for the house.

Next, is to invest in things that PRODUCE. It could be livestock, productive land and the equipment to work it, or some craft you can do, but it will be a matter of inventing your own job. For me, that = repair work, primarily with metals, but also wood, leather, and some plastics. If you can make clothing, shoes, do plumbing, dig wells, cut firewood, or make hay, those will be needed, too. Office bound paper pushers, not so much.


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## invision

BillS said:


> It's not arrogance. Obama and the Federal Reserve are determined to destroy America and destroy the dollar. That's why Obama has greatly expanded spending and greatly expanded the number of Americans receiving help from the federal government. He wants nothing to do with spending cuts.


Nice prices, $1.50 over spot..


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## invision

machinist said:


> +1,000!
> 
> EVERYONE LOSES in a currency war. It will take a long time to get through the mess, longer if bad decisions are made at high levels. Assume that your income, if you can maintain an income, will be cut by whatever factor the dollar is devalued, that is, prices would go UP by that factor. Experts that I have read say anywhere from 3, 4, or 5 to one, and some say more than that. That easily makes the US into a 3rd world country, where most of a person's income is needed for food.
> 
> Hard goods and consumables are the best hedge I know about. The first consideration is your own daily needs, so arrange to store enough for a while. Then, plan on growing food and providing for long term sources of water and heat for cooking and for the house.
> 
> Next, is to invest in things that PRODUCE. It could be livestock, productive land and the equipment to work it, or some craft you can do, but it will be a matter of inventing your own job. For me, that = repair work, primarily with metals, but also wood, leather, and some plastics. If you can make clothing, shoes, do plumbing, dig wells, cut firewood, or make hay, those will be needed, too. Office bound paper pushers, not so much.


I agree - however, I see myself being the one that offers the "trade fair" - location, security, and taking a small percentage off the top... Yes, I can do other things, but in reality, I will probably look to be the one that tries to organize the rebuild commerce in my area... If your making clothes all day, when do you have time to show your wares, and do you want everybody just coming to your house to buy it? So, in reality trade fair means general store/watering hole...

Also plan to grow tobacoo, produce whiskey, provide communications - HAM, smelt Gold & Silver, etc,,,


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## machinist

Trade Fair is a good idea. There is always a need for a marketplace, particularly if we devolve to a barter economy, or mostly so. Getting a lot of folks to the same place makes trading a lot easier. 

Some crafts people get by just fine taking orders at home. I've done a lot of that, as did my Grandad, a furniture maker, and his sister, a seamstress. Farmers do this a lot today, making face-to-face deals on commodities like hay, grain , and livestock. But a marketplace gives everyone a bigger clientele, and more options. 

I don't expect that some parts of rural America will change all that much from how they do business today. It will be the cities that have the most changing to do with regard to trade, IMHO. Local stuff will be the order of the day, and getting it to those who need it will be the problem to solve.


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## invision

machinist said:


> Trade Fair is a good idea. There is always a need for a marketplace, particularly if we devolve to a barter economy, or mostly so. Getting a lot of folks to the same place makes trading a lot easier.
> 
> Some crafts people get by just fine taking orders at home. I've done a lot of that, as did my Grandad, a furniture maker, and his sister, a seamstress. Farmers do this a lot today, making face-to-face deals on commodities like hay, grain , and livestock. But a marketplace gives everyone a bigger clientele, and more options.
> 
> I don't expect that some parts of rural America will change all that much from how they do business today. It will be the cities that have the most changing to do with regard to trade, IMHO. Local stuff will be the order of the day, and getting it to those who need it will be the problem to solve.


But in a SHTF scenario, you really want to do F2F without it looking like a Mexican drug cartel deal going down?


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## Brennen53

So if someone has NO previous preparations, basically starting at zero except for what little knowledge is in my head, what is one to do if a collapse was to happen in <6 months? Where do you even start? (this is of course assuming someone knew it would be within 6 mo, which of course no one actually does)


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## goshengirl

Viking said:


> ...what we've set aside for that "Rainy Day".


If only it were going to be a rainy day. Me thinks it'll be a monsoon!


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## goshengirl

Startingout-Blair said:


> But if nothing happens, then you've lost that (30%???) for nothing. Always a hard choice!


It's actually not a hard choice for me - I'd much rather gamble 30% than 100%, you know? And the bottom line is, I don't think it's possible at this point for nothing to happen.


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## DJgang

Brennen53 said:


> So if someone has NO previous preparations, basically starting at zero except for what little knowledge is in my head, what is one to do if a collapse was to happen in <6 months? Where do you even start? (this is of course assuming someone knew it would be within 6 mo, which of course no one actually does)


Money or food?

Get to grocery store and buy rice and beans. All kinds and any kind of beans. Then cases of veggies. Go to seed and feed store and get lots of open pollinated or heirloom seeds, may have to ask for 'heirloom' one gallons of water per day per person. Get ahold of some five gallon buckets if you don't have any. A bottle of colorox as well. You can get all of this in one trip, one day, for not too much $ you'll be ahead.

Then if you have any firearms, pick up a few boxes of ammo.


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## invision

Brennen53 said:


> So if someone has NO previous preparations, basically starting at zero except for what little knowledge is in my head, what is one to do if a collapse was to happen in <6 months? Where do you even start? (this is of course assuming someone knew it would be within 6 mo, which of course no one actually does)


Wow, ok I will take a stab at this... Do you live in a city or suburbs or rural area.. And what is population of area? Also, how far are you from a natural water source?

First concentrate on a 72 hr bug out bag. 3 day supply of food & water, and equipment to support you on road - knife or two, para cord, tarp, tent, sleeping bag, mess kit, multiple ways to start a fire, including dryer lint, matches, first aid kit, water purification, etc

That isn't really expensive.. Do some searches on here, you will find a lot of opinions what you should have in a bob.

Then firearm and ammo.. That can be expensive... Handgun or shotgun minimum...

Once you have that, then we can talk next phase - bug in or bug out.

Now if your already a prepper, and you were talking money - what are your resources like? Can you go out and buy 10 ounces of silver - approximately $313.40 plus add on from vendor? Best either 1 oz coins, or go for 90% pre-65 US coins - stay away from nickels and there is a good site to help you before you buy http://cointrackers.com/is-my-coin-silver.php. Now if you can afford more than $350 a month... Do a gold silver split, start at 1/10th ounce of gold with some silver every month. Or if you can afford it buy an ounce of gold, and some silver per month. I prefer coins to bars or ingots...


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## machinist

invision,

Yes, I've done face to face deals for years at my home repair shop. That's how it works out here in the boonies. They brought stuff that was broken, we talked, I fixed it, and they paid me. No problem, just normal business. I don't see any difference if I have to re-open the shop. Lots different than in the cities. 

The local LEO's all know what I do, some of them patronized my shop, including the county sheriff's office, the city water treatment plant, the county highway garage, etc.. Nothing clandestine about this. I know about half the people in this end of the county, and many more know me and what I do, which is good for business. Any suspicious activity out here sticks out like the proverbial lady-of-the-night in Church. Everybody knows everybody else, and probably half their family. Nobody could get away with anything shady if they ever wanted to. I do LOVE a small town! It is sort of a "block watch" on steroids. The criminal element has to hide REAL well. 

I'm retired for the moment, but all it takes is to hang the sign out again, and the driveway will be full before noon the next day. There is NO competition. I'd still be doing it, but need to get my own projects finished first.


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## Marcus

goshengirl said:


> It's actually not a hard choice for me - I'd much rather gamble 30% than 100%, you know? And the bottom line is, I don't think it's possible at this point for nothing to happen.


If you have a 401K, you can take a loan out against it for up to half of its value or 50K (at least I can.) You're borrowing from yourself, and when I did it last year, the interest rate was 3.5%.

If you just have an IRA, you can open a PM IRA and roll the $$$ over and then buy PMs.


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## k0xxx

China warns the US on continuing to devalue it's Dollar.

China tells U.S. to slow money printing presses

The US responds "Meh".

Fed keeps stimulus in place as economy "paused"


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## machinist

Heh, heh. The economy "paused", huh? That's what they call this ongoing depression? Nice how if TPTB don't like the truth, they can just re-label it!


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## Brennen53

invision said:


> Wow, ok I will take a stab at this... Do you live in a city or suburbs or rural area.. And what is population of area? Also, how far are you from a natural water source?
> 
> First concentrate on a 72 hr bug out bag. 3 day supply of food & water, and equipment to support you on road - knife or two, para cord, tarp, tent, sleeping bag, mess kit, multiple ways to start a fire, including dryer lint, matches, first aid kit, water purification, etc
> 
> That isn't really expensive.. Do some searches on here, you will find a lot of opinions what you should have in a bob.
> 
> Then firearm and ammo.. That can be expensive... Handgun or shotgun minimum...
> 
> Once you have that, then we can talk next phase - bug in or bug out.
> 
> Now if your already a prepper, and you were talking money - what are your resources like? Can you go out and buy 10 ounces of silver - approximately $313.40 plus add on from vendor? Best either 1 oz coins, or go for 90% pre-65 US coins - stay away from nickels and there is a good site to help you before you buy http://cointrackers.com/is-my-coin-silver.php. Now if you can afford more than $350 a month... Do a gold silver split, start at 1/10th ounce of gold with some silver every month. Or if you can afford it buy an ounce of gold, and some silver per month. I prefer coins to bars or ingots...


I am a beginning prepper... Like as in I have nearly zero items for preparedness. 
I live in a "city" ish type setting. I live in north Texas, the city has 200,000 people and we're by far the biggest city for 2 hours, but relatively speaking we're a small city. The nearest natural water sources are a nearly dried up lake thats 20-25 miles away, one somewhat dried up river thats around 15 miles. Theres a few playa lakes (however you spell that) or manmade lakes in parks and such here and there but they are rain fed and drain from the streets of the city. However, we are also right on top of the Ogallala Aquifer which is what has provided our area with water after the lake had gone really low. (this is the problem with living in north texas).

I have started on my bob, which by started means that I have purchased a large alice pack. that is all... My intention for it is to make it more of an extended time frame pack, rather than an after 72 hrs your going to starve pack, because I have no where else to go currently other than where I am living.

I have a 9mm handgun and a .22lr semi auto, around 150 rounds for the 9mm and a small box of like 500 for the .22.

Resources are scarce as I am a 20 year old college kid paying for school out of pocket. I am however putting money aside each week (not very much though) for advances in my b.o.b. I only make around $350- 400 per week and alot of that goes to current expenses. I will be short on cash like this for about four more years until I graduate chiropractic school and start my practice... (at least thats the plan). Honestly I just hope schools are still running by that day, which would be 2016 ish.

By the way, in around 16 months I will be moving to dallas for school. I will either stay there in a suburb (don't have any idea which one) or will move back home to start my practice. Both have very good projections as to a successful career, however dallas has much more resources and water sources... But everything, including the amount of land I would like to own, would be much, much more expensive.


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## Sweeper

For all the new preppers, remember the rule of 3's-

3 minutes without air
3 days without water
3 weeks without food

Water, a means of carrying it, filtering it and sanitizing it. You can accomplish this by means as simple as a double-bucket sand filter and boiling the water after it is filtered, regular bleach, iodine tabs, any number of different ways to filter and sanitize, from prices ranging from free-ninety free to build a sand filter, to top notch Berkey systems, the trade off is either your time spent building, or time spent working to pay for the product.

Food- can you grow your own? Stuck in an urban environment? Guerilla gardens can be planted in places such as parks or wildlands. Root crops are high bang for the buck crops, a potatoe plant can produce five or more pounds of spuds, and only those who actually know what they are looking at will know it's a food source.

Research the wild edibles in your area, know what you can and can't eat. If you have a small yard, you can grow a surprising amount of food, stock mainly that which you can't produce, like salt, sugar, wheat and rice, even in small suburban lots, you can raise rabbits for meat, and in many places, chickens for butchering and eggs.

Do for yourself now, and practice the techniques that can keep you and yours fed, the collapse is immenent, and we will be the survivors as long as we know what we're doing!

Good luck and keep prepping!


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## invision

BillS said:


> But the dollar will be worthless eventually. You can't create $50 billion out of thin air every month without eventually destroying the dollar. Hyperinflation is a 100% certainty. There's no debate. Just a question of when.


Actually that number is $85B a month... Or better stated - $1.020T. QE3 is $40B and operation twist is $45B. Neither work, but yet we keep trying, qe1 qe2. Broken record.


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## invision

machinist said:


> invision,
> 
> Yes, I've done face to face deals for years at my home repair shop. That's how it works out here in the boonies. They brought stuff that was broken, we talked, I fixed it, and they paid me. No problem, just normal business. I don't see any difference if I have to re-open the shop. Lots different than in the cities.
> 
> The local LEO's all know what I do, some of them patronized my shop, including the county sheriff's office, the city water treatment plant, the county highway garage, etc.. Nothing clandestine about this. I know about half the people in this end of the county, and many more know me and what I do, which is good for business. Any suspicious activity out here sticks out like the proverbial lady-of-the-night in Church. Everybody knows everybody else, and probably half their family. Nobody could get away with anything shady if they ever wanted to. I do LOVE a small town! It is sort of a "block watch" on steroids. The criminal element has to hide REAL well.
> 
> I'm retired for the moment, but all it takes is to hang the sign out again, and the driveway will be full before noon the next day. There is NO competition. I'd still be doing it, but need to get my own projects finished first.


Think you misunderstood me friend,,, right now, no problem... My parents run two business out of their home full time and they are in their 70's in a small city of 14,000. Not saying that, what I meant was even though you know all of these people, would you trust them all in a SHTF environment? Would you wanting them coming to your home, knowing you have supplies, continue to be well fed whi


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## invision

machinist said:


> invision,
> 
> Yes, I've done face to face deals for years at my home repair shop. That's how it works out here in the boonies. They brought stuff that was broken, we talked, I fixed it, and they paid me. No problem, just normal business. I don't see any difference if I have to re-open the shop. Lots different than in the cities.
> 
> The local LEO's all know what I do, some of them patronized my shop, including the county sheriff's office, the city water treatment plant, the county highway garage, etc.. Nothing clandestine about this. I know about half the people in this end of the county, and many more know me and what I do, which is good for business. Any suspicious activity out here sticks out like the proverbial lady-of-the-night in Church. Everybody knows everybody else, and probably half their family. Nobody could get away with anything shady if they ever wanted to. I do LOVE a small town! It is sort of a "block watch" on steroids. The criminal element has to hide REAL well.
> 
> I'm retired for the moment, but all it takes is to hang the sign out again, and the driveway will be full before noon the next day. There is NO competition. I'd still be doing it, but need to get my own projects finished first.


Sorry, think you misunderstood... Not talking about here and now... Talking about during SHTF timeframe. Knowing you have surplus, how many of those people you know also are as prepared as you? I think it could be risky to barter in my own home during the SHTF timeframe... Post as we rebuild, maybe easier, but not during the meltdown...


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## invision

Brennen53 said:


> I am a beginning prepper... Like as in I have nearly zero items for preparedness.
> I live in a "city" ish type setting. I live in north Texas, the city has 200,000 people and we're by far the biggest city for 2 hours, but relatively speaking we're a small city. The nearest natural water sources are a nearly dried up lake thats 20-25 miles away, one somewhat dried up river thats around 15 miles. Theres a few playa lakes (however you spell that) or manmade lakes in parks and such here and there but they are rain fed and drain from the streets of the city. However, we are also right on top of the Ogallala Aquifer which is what has provided our area with water after the lake had gone really low. (this is the problem with living in north texas).
> 
> I have started on my bob, which by started means that I have purchased a large alice pack. that is all... My intention for it is to make it more of an extended time frame pack, rather than an after 72 hrs your going to starve pack, because I have no where else to go currently other than where I am living.
> 
> I have a 9mm handgun and a .22lr semi auto, around 150 rounds for the 9mm and a small box of like 500 for the .22.
> 
> Resources are scarce as I am a 20 year old college kid paying for school out of pocket. I am however putting money aside each week (not very much though) for advances in my b.o.b. I only make around $350- 400 per week and alot of that goes to current expenses. I will be short on cash like this for about four more years until I graduate chiropractic school and start my practice... (at least thats the plan). Honestly I just hope schools are still running by that day, which would be 2016 ish.
> 
> By the way, in around 16 months I will be moving to dallas for school. I will either stay there in a suburb (don't have any idea which one) or will move back home to start my practice. Both have very good projections as to a successful career, however dallas has much more resources and water sources... But everything, including the amount of land I would like to own, would be much, much more expensive.


I agree with the rule of 3... For you I would say water is main concern, food 2nd. Do you drink coke or Pepsi? Do you buy in 2 liters? If so clean them out and refill with water... They stack quite nicely... Food, rice and beans in bulk are cheap... Noodles too... Seasonings like beef bullion cubes for the noodle packs... And will help for rice and beans... If you have a car/truck, make sure it is full and have a few spare 5 gallon jugs of fuel with stabilizer in it... Enough to get to where there is a safe place with water... The water filtration stuff is important and should be looked at seriously...


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## Immolatus

*Spreading to Venezuela*

Venezuela is devaluing their currency on Wednesday, right after a bank holiday this week for Carnivale.
The official rate is going from 4.3 to 6.3 to the dollar. I've heard that the real black market rate is anywhere from 10 to 1,000 (from a guy on ZH who was supposedly there last week).


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## machinist

Immolatus,
Looks like devaluation is the coming thing. Japan wants the Yen down in the worst way, and China is making noises about US money printing. These things spread fast. 

invision,
No, I did understand, and yes, I definitely want these people around me. Most of them are more self sufficient than we are, and have been so for generations. That's why we chose this area. The culture is really different. The locals are friends first, neighbors second, and third, sometimes customers. 

My garden didn't do so hot last year, and without asking a couple folks gave us some tomatoes and sweet corn. But then, we have given away surplus produce in the past, too. 

We have lived and worked in a few much less desirable places, but were able to retire where we know about everyone and are related to many of them. That idea is foremost in our prep planning. We think it is very important. 

Yes, we have our share of stinkers, like everywhere, but the difference is, we know who they all are. It's hard to get away with being a knucklehead when everyone knows your mother, all your family, and where they live! I grew up nearby and have missed it since I left at age 18. Nice to be back home again.

I won't need a sign to reopen our shop business. I can call about 20 people and the word will be across the county before the week is over. There is quite a lot of that here, because not having a sign keeps out the riff-raff pretty well.


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