# Wood powered generators



## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

We are currently reliant on the grid for our electricity and although power cuts are common in the winter they usually don't last more than a day or two. We usually manage to cope the old fashioned way with with plenty of lanterns and candles ready to hand, a gas heater and a couple of gas stoves for cooking/heating water on. I was thinking of buying a generator more for running a freezer than anything else, just in case we do have a longer power cut. My first thought was a basic diesel or petrol generator since they are relatively inexpensive and with only occasional use will probably outlive me. Then the idea of a wood fueled system crossed my mind. I have no experience of these but like the idea as I have ready access to firewood. I was also thinking of getting a wood burning stove fitted if my landlord will agree to it. Now I'm wondering if I could combine the wood burning stove/wood fuel generator into one system? Is this type of system commercially available, what are the costs and the pros and cons? Sorry if it seems a bit of a naive question.... I know lots of people who have wood burning stoves but no one I know also generates electricity with their system.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

In for an answer to this. I know they have gasifiers you can run a car on slowly but a generator, especially one that would work in the home, is something I've never seen.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Uriel said:


> We are currently reliant on the grid for our electricity and although power cuts are common in the winter they usually don't last more than a day or two. We usually manage to cope the old fashioned way with with plenty of lanterns and candles ready to hand, a gas heater and a couple of gas stoves for cooking/heating water on. I was thinking of buying a generator more for running a freezer than anything else, just in case we do have a longer power cut. My first thought was a basic diesel or petrol generator since they are relatively inexpensive and with only occasional use will probably outlive me. Then the idea of a wood fueled system crossed my mind. I have no experience of these but like the idea as I have ready access to firewood. I was also thinking of getting a wood burning stove fitted if my landlord will agree to it. Now I'm wondering if I could combine the wood burning stove/wood fuel generator into one system? Is this type of system commercially available, what are the costs and the pros and cons? Sorry if it seems a bit of a naive question.... I know lots of people who have wood burning stoves but no one I know also generates electricity with their system.


A sterling engine might meet your needs, at least for some lighting or a small fan.

Pelter junctions are another option.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

You can use a Wood Gasifier to produce the Fuel to run a Generator, but it is a separate unit whereby Wood is "processed" under Heat and Pressure to produce Fuel. The Gasifier is sometimes seen in the back of Trucks with a Fuel Line run directly into the Carburetor of the Vehicle. I don't know of any place that sells a Wood Gasifier, however the Plans to build one on a DIY basis are readily available on the Internet, and some very good Books on the subject are available at Amazon. One Word of Caution if you decide to try this: you are producing Fuel under high Heat and Pressure, which could be extremely explosive if a Mistake occurs. I suggest that you thoroughly research and understand the Concept before you begin.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

I researched wood gasifiers years ago and they have been in use for many decades, especially in Australia. Getting an internal combustion engine to run relatively well off one is a tedious, time consuming job...think weeks or months of getting the right system and fine-tuning it to the engine and vice-versa. Valve and ignition timing may need to be adjusted just to get the engine to run. Getting the fuel/air ratio correct from idle (no load) through wide open throttle, or even partial throttle (light load) is tricky. I think some guys have tried propane conversions with mixed results, but it sounded to me like a homemade system could be possible. The second problem is the fuel stream can become VERY dirty and result in engine problems...gummed/stuck intake valves being the first issue, if I recall.

I don't think it would be worth all the trouble for an engine that would only be operated occasionally. If it were a daily use machine or vehicle, yeah, I'd give it a whirl. A smaller gasoline powered generator is inexpensive to buy and operate, and far less trouble to keep in working order, especially for occasional use.

If you do a web search of wood gasifier there should be 1/2 dozen or so hits on blog sites...if you want to go that far into powering a generator. Thing is, you have to have a functioning engine and generator head before you can even begin on the conversion, so lots of time, parts and materials to save just a few gallons of gas every year or so. Now, if you're thinking ahead for long-term SHTF, oh yeah, a wood powered genset would be the cat's meow.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

At least in theory I've seen engines run off coal smoke which if it's true and if you had coal would be easier and probably safer than wood because you are re burning the actual smoke so it doesn't seem to have a need for pressure, supposedly it was done in the U.K. during WW2 fuel rationing. But in my limited knowledge I'd go with what forluvofsmoke said and buy gas. Other option could be solar, I know you said you rented but when needed panels could be put in the yard and the battery bank could be kept charged by the grid with panels put out only when the grid is down, extension cords could be run through the house from a converter like you would have to do with a generator anyway. All of that would be fairly portable if you moved too.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Brilliant! This stuff is really fascinating. It has given me some thoughts and ideas whichever route I finally settle on. Am I just easier amused than most or are those stirling engines like watching magic??? There is something beautiful as well as functional about them.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Uriel said:


> Brilliant! This stuff is really fascinating. It has given me some thoughts and ideas whichever route I finally settle on. Am I just easier amused than most or are those stirling engines like watching magic??? There is something beautiful as well as functional about them.


 Hi Uriel, imo unless your a modern day Paul Bunyan all that wood don't come easy. Also if its get really bad, those smoke stacks can be seen for miles, ask the American indians they used them for communication.

And the illegals here use them for a cop taxi out of the woods when lost. Want a free ride in America, just cause a wildfire that kills wildlife,burns down homes, and sometime kills people. Just don't try it if American arsonist or its jail time.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Meerkat said:


> Hi Uriel, imo unless your a modern day Paul Bunyan all that wood don't come easy. Also if its get really bad, those smoke stacks can be seen for miles, ask the American indians they used them for communication.
> 
> And the illegals here use them for a cop taxi out of the woods when lost. Want a free ride in America, just cause a wildfire that kills wildlife,burns down homes, and sometime kills people. Just don't try it if American arsonist or its jail time.


Haha I'd never heard of Paul Bunyan so I had to look him up. Wish I was him  I'm not too concerned about the giveaway smoke Meerkat. I'm just thinking in terms of being better prepared for the usual interruptions at the moment but I appreciate your point.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Uriel said:


> Haha I'd never heard of Paul Bunyan so I had to look him up. Wish I was him  I'm not too concerned about the giveaway smoke Meerkat. I'm just thinking in terms of being better prepared for the usual interruptions at the moment but I appreciate your point.


 Your welcome and I think if I remember correctly Paul B. was an old American folk lore, or he may have been real.:dunno: I just know as a child we heard all about th man.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

as others have stated woodgas is possible, but it is finicky and dirty, a stirling engine is elegant and lends it's self to co generation, but you would have to use the electricity it produced sparingly unless you built a monster.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

And yes it is necessary to use LIBTARD a lot in print, so that it becomes a dictionary entry:
Libtard : a term used to describe a left wing zealot who values Political correctness over everything else, often self centered short sighted socialist theorist who thinks corporations make gazillions of dollars no matter what and should therefore fund all of the stupid ideas that activist come up with no matter how insane or inane Copyright 2013 Tirediron


How can I use the "L" word and get it into print if it is copyrighted?:wave:


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Most likely going to get myself a genny. I'm still going to ask permission to fit a wood burning stove and a stirling engine will also be on my shopping/DIY list as another back up just for charging small appliances.... and because I like the thought of sitting in an armchair watching one all day :2thumb:


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Meerkat said:


> Your welcome and I think if I remember correctly Paul B. was an old American folk lore, or he may have been real.:dunno: I just know as a child we heard all about th man.


In many ways he was real, early loggers here on the West coast used springboards jammed into the trees often over 10 feet off the ground, probably to get away from the pitchy lower portion, they would stand on the springboard, chop and saw the trees down. I've seen springboard notches in old stumps up to 15 feet high. Those guys had to be pretty tough and have very good balance. I've seen logged places that the land was nearly vertical and all I can say is that those guys had to have Paul Bunyan' blood in their system. I still remember the Mugwhump out of the book, he had his feet on one side of the fence and his whump on the other. There is a tourist park in Northern California that has very large figures of Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox at the entrance. Do a search on logging in the late 1800's and early 1900's, the diameter of some of those logs will blow your mind, I've seen pictures of eight loggers standing in the fall notch of a huge spruce and pictures of old cars on top of logs. One log, in those days, could provide enough lumber to build a fairly large home. If any of you get the chance to go on the coastal highway in Northern California, stop at our favorite place, Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park, the size of those trees is awesome, gives you an idea what early loggers were up against with just axes and handsaws. Other than this area, we stay out of Kalifornia.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

Why isn't anyone suggesting a steam engine to run a genny.? That would be a lot easier than a gasifier.

Or build a wood fired still and make alcohol to burn.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Meerkat said:


> Hi Uriel, imo unless your a modern day Paul Bunyan all that wood don't come easy. Also if its get really bad, those smoke stacks can be seen for miles, ask the American indians they used them for communication.
> 
> And the illegals here use them for a cop taxi out of the woods when lost. Want a free ride in America, just cause a wildfire that kills wildlife,burns down homes, and sometime kills people. Just don't try it if American arsonist or its jail time.


There's not much smoke if you use well seasoned wood. The smoke signals wer made with green wood.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Viking said:


> In many ways he was real, early loggers here on the West coast used springboards jammed into the trees often over 10 feet off the ground, probably to get away from the pitchy lower portion, they would stand on the springboard, chop and saw the trees down. I've seen springboard notches in old stumps up to 15 feet high. Those guys had to be pretty tough and have very good balance. I've seen logged places that the land was nearly vertical and all I can say is that those guys had to have Paul Bunyan' blood in their system. I still remember the Mugwhump out of the book, he had his feet on one side of the fence and his whump on the other. There is a tourist park in Northern California that has very large figures of Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox at the entrance. Do a search on logging in the late 1800's and early 1900's, the diameter of some of those logs will blow your mind, I've seen pictures of eight loggers standing in the fall notch of a huge spruce and pictures of old cars on top of logs. One log, in those days, could provide enough lumber to build a fairly large home. If any of you get the chance to go on the coastal highway in Northern California, stop at our favorite place, Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park, the size of those trees is awesome, gives you an idea what early loggers were up against with just axes and handsaws. Other than this area, we stay out of Kalifornia.


Those early loggers were something else. As though felling trees with manual tools is not difficult enough they were also extracting and stacking all that timber. I have seen photographs of timber bridges that were built on site to extract logs over. Those were impressive constructions in their own right. I've done a fair bit of felling having worked in the forestry industry so I know how much hard work it is to fell and sned out tree after tree after tree. With the bigger ones we could usually leave the cut logs where they lay and the loader would extract so we didn't have to manually move big logs. The majority of the felling was also done by machine but we would often be called upon to do bigger edge trees or trees on the steeper ground where the harvester couldn't operate. Not to mention the fact that the risks are lesser in modern day felling thanks to PPE and safer practices in comparison to what was the norm of the past. We had it easy. Those guys really were real life Paul Bunyan's.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Caribou said:


> And yes it is necessary to use LIBTARD a lot in print, so that it becomes a dictionary entry:
> Libtard : a term used to describe a left wing zealot who values Political correctness over everything else, often self centered short sighted socialist theorist who thinks corporations make gazillions of dollars no matter what and should therefore fund all of the stupid ideas that activist come up with no matter how insane or inane Copyright 2013 Tirediron
> 
> How can I use the "L" word and get it into print if it is copyrighted?:wave:


The definition is copyright, not the word, the word could be argued to have been in common use before the definition. :cheers:


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

oldasrocks said:


> Why isn't anyone suggesting a steam engine to run a genny.? That would be a lot easier than a gasifier.
> 
> Or build a wood fired still and make alcohol to burn.


I have never found much info on a DIY wood fired boiler that is reasonably safe. but you are correct steam engine power would be far more efficient


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> but you are correct steam engine power would be far more efficient


No - it isn't . Not even close.

These guys tried it, and although they had plenty of wood to use, it takes a LOT of wood to make 1 kw/H.

http://www.otherpower.com/steamengine.html

Woodgas is a possibility - look at what Wayne Keith in Alabama has accomplished!

Nothing about woodgas is easy.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

LincTex said:


> No - it isn't . Not even close.
> 
> These guys tried it, and although they had plenty of wood to use, it takes a LOT of wood to make 1 kw/H.
> 
> ...


That boiler is pretty ancient technology, a more efficient boiler would help a lot. the big bonus about steam is the cogen potential in a colder climate. ie heat. and the power unit should last for a very long time, compared to a producer gas fired unit.


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

I'm old so prefer my propane fired genny. Two 500 gallon tanks would give me 8 months of use at 4 hrs a day.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

oldasrocks said:


> I'm old so prefer my propane fired genny. Two 500 gallon tanks would give me 8 months of use at 4 hrs a day.


Does propane have a shelf life?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Uriel said:


> Does propane have a shelf life?


No. As long as the container doesn't rust through you are good to go.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Caribou said:


> No. As long as the container doesn't rust through you are good to go.


This is something else to consider then. I'd never thought about it before as we tend to rotate and use all of our oldest fuel first. I've never even used additives in our petrol that we store as we don't actually keep that much, just enough to keep us going for a month or two depending on how sparingly we use it.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Uriel said:


> This is something else to consider then. I'd never thought about it before as we tend to rotate and use all of our oldest fuel first. I've never even used additives in our petrol that we store as we don't actually keep that much, just enough to keep us going for a month or two depending on how sparingly we use it.


You asked about propane. Propane will keep indefinitely without treatment. In America the propane tanks must be tested every twelve years by law. The cost of testing is high and people typically just buy new tanks. It is not against the law to possess out of date tanks you just can't refill them. Many here make sure their propane tanks are full when they reach their expiration date and just set these aside for an emergency.

Petrol is a different story. What we refer to as gasoline is good for about a year without additives. One of our members has had success by storing gasoline with additives in an old propane tank for as long as five years. With a totally enclosed and unvented tank the volatiles can't evaporate away. Plastic is porous and the volatiles will eventually find their way through.

Diesel holds up better than gasoline but still benefits from an additive.


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## Uriel (Nov 15, 2016)

Caribou said:


> You asked about propane. Propane will keep indefinitely without treatment. In America the propane tanks must be tested every twelve years by law. The cost of testing is high and people typically just buy new tanks. It is not against the law to possess out of date tanks you just can't refill them. Many here make sure their propane tanks are full when they reach their expiration date and just set these aside for an emergency.
> 
> Petrol is a different story. What we refer to as gasoline is good for about a year without additives. One of our members has had success by storing gasoline with additives in an old propane tank for as long as five years. With a totally enclosed and unvented tank the volatiles can't evaporate away. Plastic is porous and the volatiles will eventually find their way through.
> 
> Diesel holds up better than gasoline but still benefits from an additive.


Great info! Thanks!


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm not sure why solar isn't being considered but no matter

The propane or any generator can get pretty expensive fuel wise ... somebody mentioned they were only going to use it 4 hours a day ..

Coincidentally most lead acid batteries can be charged full to near full with a smart charger in about 4 hours and provide electricity as long as the batteries last.

Properly sized to the load no reason your couldn't have electricity 24/7 running a genny for 4 hours .. but at that point you already have half the cost of adding solar 

I'm on solar and have underground propane tanks (stove, water heater) and I'm thinking of adding a generator as back up ..

I have two concerns about generators first is cost of fuel I can dry clothes on a clothes line and cook with wood or direct solar and heat water with direct solar so I'm still up and still enjoying the conveniences even if there is a little more work if I can't get fuel, and the cost of fuel... I'm just used to fuel being free and quiet and something I don't have to mess with.

Another cool fact that most folks miss is you can get by with a smaller generator if you have batteries .. running directly off a generator you need to size it for the start surge draw of any electric motors that can be 3 to 4 times the normal load of the motor and if you don't size your generator to allow for that you will get overload trips , especially if something else lights and a TV or computer is running when the freezer or refrigerator kicks in that surge is real quick but it is real... batteries don't care they got buckets of amps in reserve .. the inverter cares and a generator cares but batteries don't care... it's like a microwave say 1200 watts you need a generator that can make 1200 watts with batteries you need an inverter that can do 1200 watts .. but all the batteries see if you run the microwave 3 minutes for a frozen burrito is 60 watts 

Same with the freezer you got a 5amp motor that need 20 amps to start for a second or so the batteries see the 5 amps as 600 watts assuming 120 volt system for an hours run time but that 1 second 20 amp draw at start up is like 0.66 watt 2/3rd of a watt 20 amps at 120 volts for a second = 2/3rds of a watt you would need a 2400 watt generator or inverter to run that motor because for just that second you need 2400 watts per hour for a second .. but with batteries and the 2400 inverter you could be charging the batteries with a 1000 watt generator or a 1000 watts of solar panel the batteries could have 8,000 watts in reserve or whatever ( you don't want discharge solar type batteries much below 40-50% , they can last 10 years if you follow that rule, or 2 years if you ignore that rule) You would have to run the smaller generator longer to charge the batteries ( all 4 hours ) and batteries can only take 1/4th to 1/8th of their capacity per hour anyway depending on chemistry and battery design.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Caribou said:


> You asked about propane. Propane will keep indefinitely without treatment. In America the propane tanks must be tested every twelve years by law. The cost of testing is high and people typically just buy new tanks. It is not against the law to possess out of date tanks you just can't refill them. Many here make sure their propane tanks are full when they reach their expiration date and just set these aside for an emergency.


The same tank has been in use at my home for at least thirty years. Never had them want to test it for any reason.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> The same tank has been in use at my home for at least thirty years. Never had them want to test it for any reason.


Only 100#er's and smaller are required to be tested. Thanks for noticing my incomplete post.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Here at least LPG tanks without an expiry date are filled unless the ID tag has rusted off of the surface. newer tanks have the tag mounted on stand off feet to prevent rust between the tank and tag.


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