# Could Greece cause crashes of US banks?



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

Could Greek bankruptcy cause a crash of some US Banks?
Goldman Sachs is owed a great amount of money by the Greek Gov.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ece-loan-shows-two-sinners-as-client-unravels

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2015/06/goldman-sachs-doesnt-have-clean-hands-in-greece-crisis/

"On the day the 2001 deal was struck, the government owed the bank about 600 million euros ($793 million) more than the 2.8 billion euros it borrowed, said Spyros Papanicolaou, who took over the country's debt-management agency in 2005. By then, the price of the transaction, a derivative that disguised the loan and that Goldman Sachs persuaded Greece not to test with competitors, had almost doubled to 5.1 billion euros, he said&#8230;

WHO DOES GREECE OWE?
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/eu/debt_greek/debt_greek.html


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Greece only makes up 0.3% of the global economy, but it's causing a global stock market sell-off, stocks will play up and down as always but our economy is not that conectect to Greece as the European economy is and even them Germany which has basically pay for everything already has set aside money to cover the Greece fiasco, Greece is like the cousin you wish you never had to the Europeans, they have been nothing but trouble.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

readytogo said:


> Greece only makes up 0.3% of the global economy, but it's causing a global stock market sell-off, stocks will play up and down as always but our economy is not that conectect to Greece as the European economy is and even them Germany which has basically pay for everything already has set aside money to cover the Greece fiasco, Greece is like the cousin you wish you never had to the Europeans, they have been nothing but trouble.


Goldman Sachs is heavily tied to Greece. Other banks may possibly hold greek debt as well.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

I can't see it actually happening!

But, then again, I didn't actually see my back getting hairy !:scratch


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

readytogo said:


> Greece only makes up 0.3% of the global economy, but it's causing a global stock market sell-off, stocks will play up and down as always but our economy is not that conectect to Greece as the European economy is and even them Germany which has basically pay for everything already has set aside money to cover the Greece fiasco, Greece is like the cousin you wish you never had to the Europeans, they have been nothing but trouble.


The Dow is down 191 points since the close on Friday. (1%)
The S&P 500 is down 24.52 points since Friday's close. (1.1%)
The NASDAQ 100 is down 57 points from Friday's close. ((1.3%)
All opened lower on Monday and then went down.

All have been up today and yesterday after opening lower on Monday and then falling over Greece worries.

Since Monday's open, the NASDAQ is down 11 points, the Dow is down 52 points, and the S&P is down 7.76 points.

Monday was the big 350 point loss on the Dow. Notice that's almost been erased as have Monday's losses on the other two indices.

As I pointed out on another thread, markets tend to over-react when there is money to be made by panicking the more naive.

*Don't be surprised* if Monday's losses are completely erased by the close tomorrow.

Why would that happen? 

Perhaps the movers and shakers in the market want to rinse and repeat after the Greek vote. They make their money on price movement, not on picking good stocks.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

According to this site:

http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/greece

The total government debt of Greece is $380 billion or €342 billion. The debt should be considered completely worthless now.

I expect Greek debt, the derivatives, and the credit default swaps to take down the entire financial system of the western world.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Marcus said:


> The Dow is down 191 points since the close on Friday. (1%)
> The S&P 500 is down 24.52 points since Friday's close. (1.1%)
> The NASDAQ 100 is down 57 points from Friday's close. ((1.3%)
> All opened lower on Monday and then went down.
> ...


The stock market is completely rigged. High frequency trading by the big banks and the Federal Reserve keep stock prices high. The dumping of massive gold and silver futures contracts onto the market keeps those prices low.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

Greeks Reject Bailout Terms In Referendum

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...tm_medium=email&utm_campaign=nl&newsletterad=


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

This Greece deal will just drag on for a couple months or more. Greece itself is toast. They have no money and really not even the means to make much money. They will have to default on most/all of their debt. This will have little impact on the USA overall. But their neighboring countries own a bunch of Greek debt-Spain, Italy, others. Those countries are also in bad financial trouble already and this won't help them. Then when those other countries see how Greece can just default on their debt they might be temped to do the same. Same if Greece exits the EU, maybe others will follow. Who knows? This is uncharted waters. Naturally everyone is in the same leaky boat- big gov spending and very very weak economies (some of which are still contracting). As many have said the forth quarter of this year MIGHT mark the time when everything just unravels? Stay tuned.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

A City (Detroit as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system would collapse except the State steps in with money and a larger tax base. The freebies continue.

A State (California as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system would collapse except the Country steps in with money and a larger tax base. The freebies continue.

A Country (Greese as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system will collapse unless the Country convinces another Country to loan it money. The freebies continue.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

TheLazyL said:


> A City (Detroit as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system would collapse except the State steps in with money and a larger tax base. The freebies continue.
> 
> A State (California as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system would collapse except the Country steps in with money and a larger tax base. The freebies continue.
> 
> A Country (Greese as an example) take Taxpayer's money to pay for freebies to keep the politicians in power. More and more freebies result in more and more taxes. Eventuality the system will collapse unless the Country convinces another Country to loan it money. The freebies continue.


Well said. :congrat:


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

hiwall said:


> This Greece deal will just drag on for a couple months or more. Greece itself is toast. They have no money and really not even the means to make much money. They will have to default on most/all of their debt. This will have little impact on the USA overall. But their neighboring countries own a bunch of Greek debt-Spain, Italy, others. Those countries are also in bad financial trouble already and this won't help them. Then when those other countries see how Greece can just default on their debt they might be temped to do the same. Same if Greece exits the EU, maybe others will follow. Who knows? This is uncharted waters. Naturally everyone is in the same leaky boat- big gov spending and very very weak economies (some of which are still contracting). As many have said the forth quarter of this year MIGHT mark the time when everything just unravels? Stay tuned.


It won't drag on for very long now.
Greece has about a week and a half's worth of cash left for their banks. When that cash is gone, the civil unrest will begin as people begin to get hungry. If a deal isn't reached before that point, the government will fall.

The EU _will probably_ send famine relief, but there will be no financial aid until a deal is reached. Greece really doesn't have any leverage left that they can use to threaten anyone with. All the government can do now is begin printing their own sovereign currency. Whether it will even be accepted is almost a moot point. The descent into the financial abyss for Greece will already have begun. The Greek economy will come to a screeching halt as *all transactions will require cash.* Outside suppliers will only accept Euros so their imports will crash. Exports will be subject to seizure to pay for defaulted loans (actually just the cash will be seized) so exports will crash.

At a certain point, EU politicians will decide to use the example of Greece as a means to dissuade other countries from contemplating similar actions. The choice for Greece will be to lose 100 years of progress *or* change their government to a more reasonable one. It won't be a hard choice nor will it take very long to occur.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Marcus said:


> I...The choice for Greece will be to lose 100 years of progress *or* change their government to a more reasonable one. It won't be a hard choice nor will it take very long to occur.


I used Al Bore's Internet to try and learn a bit about Greece.

Population: 10.8 million. Ohio has a population of 11.6 million

Economy of Greece is the 45th largest in the world.

GDP $238 billion.

GDP per Capita purchasing power parity: $25,859.

2011 unemployment rate was a touch under 15%. 2014 at 27.7%

Greece has very strong Unions:

For decades, both conservative and socialist governments in Greece have rewarded the demands of public sector unions with higher pay and more jobs.

In 2009, striking farmers were paid 400 million euros by the government - and this year they are back again, having briefly closed Greece's border with Bulgaria. Protesting dockworkers extracted big payouts from the government in November. And the country's tax collectors went on strike on Thursday even though their services are needed more than ever.

Striking is a bit of a national sport in Greece. Last month, the country's unionized prostitutes took to the streets, protesting unlicensed competition from Russian and Eastern European immigrants.

With concessions and accessions, the country's budget has become bloated. In Parliament, for example, the administrative staff has increased to 1,500 from 700 in the last few years, even though the number of members of Parliament has remained the same. Last year alone, 29,000 public-sector workers were hired to replace 14,000 who retired, according to the finance ministry.

"There is no end," said Stefanos Manos, a former minister for the economy in the 1990s and a persistent critic of what he considers spending abuses in Greece. "The hiring and the spending is uncontrollable."

"Calling for higher prices, Greek farmers blocked a highway last month. The government, running in the red, has long used cash to appease such constituencies."

I've come to the conclusion ending the Unions power and ending the handouts is the only way to restore Greece's economy. And the population is going to be very unhappy when they have to start earning their own way thru life.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

No comment.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> ... governments in Greece have rewarded the demands of public sector unions with higher pay and more jobs.
> 
> ...Protesting dockworkers
> 
> ...


Same can be said for the good ol' USA!


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

At this point for Greeks it comes down to:

A. Accept the troika's (Germany and the EU) austerity for many many years and somewhat be their slaves.
or
B. Create your own austerity and suffer together as a free society.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

LastOutlaw said:


> At this point for Greeks it comes down to:
> 
> A. Accept the troika's (Germany and the EU) austerity for many many years and somewhat be their slaves.
> or
> B. Create your own austerity and suffer together as a free society.


I'd like to see Greece exit the eurozone, reissue the drachma, take the economic hit and rebuild. The trouble is, the Greeks don't seem keen on busting their collective (if you'll excuse the pun) butts and working to actually create wealth.

There are already movements afoot in Austria, Ireland and Portugal to exit the eurozone. Greece leaving would set a precedent. Should too many countries leave, what becomes of the euro itself and, should it lose value quickly, how would that affect the global economy?

We live in interesting times.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

bkt said:


> There are already movements afoot in Austria, Ireland and Portugal to exit the eurozone. Greece leaving would set a precedent. Should too many countries leave, what becomes of the euro itself and, should it lose value quickly, how would that affect the global economy?


If Ireland and Austria left, I think the future of the Euro would definitely be in doubt. Austria leaving by itself is probably enough to cause Germany to re-evaluate its' commitment to the Euro due to the traditional ties between the two countries.

Germany, for instance, would be better off economically without the drag of the weak sisters. The question is what happens to Eastern & Southern Europe, and the Balkans.


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