# This can happen to you.



## readytogo

Motorcycle drivers take many chances on the road ,some are very rude and in groups they think they own the road , I have seen many instances of this bikers knocking down side view mirrors of vehicles and speeding away cutting traffic here is normal routing ,can`t chase them either , oh well a typical day on the hwy.
But this encounter could have been much worse. 
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...nother-critical-in-nyc-range-rover-chase?lite


----------



## Sparky_D

Yet another reason why New Yorks 7 round magazine limit is garbage.

This would have ended a lot sooner if the victim had been legally armed.


----------



## Sentry18

That ordeal was a cluster on both sides of the cage.


----------



## PipLogan

readytogo said:


> Motorcycle drivers take many chances on the road ,some are very rude and in groups they think they own the road , I have seen many instances of this bikers knocking down side view mirrors of vehicles and speeding away cutting traffic here is normal routing ,can`t chase them either , oh well a typical day on the hwy.
> But this encounter could have been much worse.
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/01/20772232-1-biker-charged-another-critical-in-nyc-range-rover-chase?lite


I saw this yesterday, who started it? Looked like a biker cut off the rover?


----------



## talob

Sparky_D said:


> Yet another reason why New Yorks 7 round magazine limit is garbage.
> 
> This would have ended a lot sooner if the victim had been legally armed.


I agree, told the wife about the time his helmet got through the window he'd have taken one between the eyes if that had been me, from what I'd heard that bunch of bikers had been harassing people all day, I ride and from my experience the guys on the crotch rockets are the worse they have a different mindset no respect for anyone.


----------



## 21601mom

I had my 17 yo daughter watch this yesterday. She always tells me she understands not everyone is nice, but I've never believed she understood it. She, of course, thinks we're paranoid when we have her carry pepper spray and tell her to pay attention to her surroundings. 

She was shocked during the chase and appalled when the biker smashed his window, pulled the driver out and beat him. She looked at me in her 17 yo innocence and said "why isn't anyone helping him?" It was sad to see a bit of her innocence lost, but gave me a chance to explain personal responsibility for safety. I did tell her the policies of NY would not allow the driver to carry a gun to protect himself. I asked what she thought would happen if the driver was able just to brandish a weapon...did she think the bikers would stop? She said probably so. Great teaching moment.


----------



## LincTex

talob said:


> .... from my experience the guys on the crotch rockets are the worse they have a different mindset no respect for anyone.


No kidding! Bunch of BRATS!


----------



## OldCootHillbilly

And like in anythin else, they be the exception, not the rule. I don't like bein dumped in a bucket with everbody what does stupid sh!t. There be bad apples in everthin that happens an we all get the bull when they do stupid stuff. 

Yup, lots a mistakes made in that whole thin. Never liked them 2 wheel missles, but I know folks what ride em that be just fine to. Wonder ifin all them involved learned anythin outa this?


----------



## readytogo

*Is getting more interesting now.*

Five officers possibly involved in SUV attack
http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/video?videoid=681fd79e-e3a4-4b0b-ba62-8b724c26148b&ap=False


----------



## lotsoflead

readytogo said:


> Five officers possibly involved in SUV attack
> http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/video?videoid=681fd79e-e3a4-4b0b-ba62-8b724c26148b&ap=False


if this report is true, then not all cops are on duty 24/7 and do not serve and protect 24/7.


----------



## Grimm

PipLogan said:


> I saw this yesterday, who started it? Looked like a biker cut off the rover?


Just because the biker cut the rover off doesn't give the asshat in the rover the right to clip him. If the rover had just let it go and not clipped the biker it might not have gotten as bad as it did.

Stupid + Stupid does not equal smart.


----------



## majmill

Grimm said:


> Just because the biker cut the rover off doesn't give the asshat in the rover the right to clip him. If the rover had just let it go and not clipped the biker it might not have gotten as bad as it did.
> 
> Stupid + Stupid does not equal smart.


You know the rover clipped the asshat biker on perpose???


----------



## majmill

Grimm said:


> Just because the biker cut the rover off doesn't give the asshat in the rover the right to clip him. If the rover had just let it go and not clipped the biker it might not have gotten as bad as it did.
> 
> Stupid + Stupid does not equal smart.


You know the rover clipped the asshat biker on purpose???


----------



## DJgang

Cops said they were 'undercover' and didn't want to blow their cover.

I call BS.


----------



## lotsoflead

DJgang said:


> Cops said they were 'undercover' and didn't want to blow their cover.
> 
> I call BS.


 exactly, how far can that under cover story hold up, 
hypothetical, but just suppose the bikers had been at a party and decided to have sex with a 13 yro. would they have stood quietly by
and kept their cover to arrest someone with a joint?


----------



## OldCootHillbilly

lotsoflead said:


> if this report is true, then not all cops are on duty 24/7 and do not serve and protect 24/7.


More en more I hear cops no longer "serve an protect", they investigate. So what do that mean fer joe average? We be on our own folks.

As fer this here whole deal, way to much stupid on both sides. Stupid an stupid equals disaster.


----------



## Grimm

majmill said:


> You know the rover clipped the asshat biker on perpose???


Does it matter? The rover was in a moving violation by not exchanging info with the biker he clipped. The rover in a sense made things worse. Not saying he deserved what happened to him just saying he helped make it worse by letting his pride and his "manhood" get in the way. If you really care about your family in the car with you then you drive *defensively* not *offensively*.

I have gotten cut of by bikers and nearly clipped a few because of how close they get to the car. Just like with any other possible accident I try and avoid hitting the other vehicle even if it has 2 wheels. Human nature behind the wheel- avoid a crash/fender bender.

This was a clear case of road rage on all sides. The rover asshat driver also had a case of shrunken manhood when he got cut off by the biker.


----------



## BillS

Grimm said:


> Does it matter? The rover was in a moving violation by not exchanging info with the biker he clipped. The rover in a sense made things worse. Not saying he deserved what happened to him just saying he helped make it worse by letting his pride and his "manhood" get in the way. If you really care about your family in the car with you then you drive *defensively* not *offensively*.
> 
> I have gotten cut of by bikers and nearly clipped a few because of how close they get to the car. Just like with any other possible accident I try and avoid hitting the other vehicle even if it has 2 wheels. Human nature behind the wheel- avoid a crash/fender bender.
> 
> *This was a clear case of road rage on all sides. The rover asshat driver also had a case of shrunken manhood when he got cut off by the biker*.


We don't know that there was any misbehavior on the part of the SUV driver.

There's no way I'm stopping my vehicle to exchange info with a bunch of bikers. That would be crazy.


----------



## Grimm

BillS said:


> We don't know that there was any misbehavior on the part of the SUV driver.
> 
> There's no way I'm stopping my vehicle to exchange info with a bunch of bikers. That would be crazy.


Did you see the video? A bunch of people in normal cycling clothing with no cuts or club patches on crotch rockets would not scare me enough not to pull over.

Call me naive but I don't see the harm in pulling over to do the *RIGHT* thing. The rover driver should at least be charged with hit and run for not stopping. There is too many gray areas in the enforcement of the laws. If the bikers are charged for their crimes so should the rover driver for his. Don't charge one side and not charge the other side if both committed crimes under the law *AS IT IS WRITTEN*.


----------



## DJgang

It looked like some harassment was going on at first. That bike braked intently, I guess thinking that they could make the rover stop or something, I don't know. Then you really can't see what happened at the first stop. Were they about to drag him out and beat him for hitting the braking bike? 

I just watched the video. I haven't read anymore.


----------



## Grimm

DJgang said:


> It looked like some harassment was going on at first. That bike braked intently, I guess thinking that they could make the rover stop or something, I don't know. Then you really can't see what happened at the first stop. Were they about to drag him out and beat him for hitting the braking bike?
> 
> I just watched the video. I haven't read anymore.


Regardless of how it started or who is at fault they all committed crimes and should be arrested for said crimes as the law states. I don't care if there was some harassment by the bikers before the rover clipped him. The rover did not stop as required by law in an accident. The fact the rover didn't pull over and stay at the scene in his locked car til the police he should have called arrived shows he is at fault as well for this whole f***ed up mess!

I don't care who is the one who started it. Everyone involved committed a crime or two and should be arrested as the law is written. You commit a crime, you go to jail.

End of story.


----------



## Grimm

Last thing I have to point out is...

This guy driving the rover is NOT Reginald Denny. He was not in the wrong place at the wrong time and got his ass beat for it. Lein (rover driver) aggravated the situation with his actions. He poked the bear and got the crap beat out of him for it. 

Now, I am not saying anyone deserves this. I am saying that EVERYONE is wrong here. EVERYONE needs to be held responsible for the laws they broke and the crimes they committed. I can't rob a store because my family is starving and the policemen will let me go. Lein hit 2 bikers and one is in the hospital possibly paralyzed and he did not stop at the scene. That by the law is a hit and run. Why is Lein not in jail?!


----------



## Enchant18

They busted the wife's window and someone took a picture of her on top of her baby trying to protect. A witness said on Fox News they were trying to pull her out as well. Animals!


----------



## tsrwivey

There is no way in he!! I would've stopped. The law does not require you to stop &/or remain if your safety is in jeopardy. His wife & 2 yo daughter were in the car! If my husband had stopped the car with me & my baby in it the hood rats on the motorcycles would've been the least of his worries.


----------



## drfacefixer

tsrwivey said:


> There is no way in he!! I would've stopped. The law does not require you to stop &/or remain if your safety is in jeopardy. His wife & 2 yo daughter were in the car! If my husband had stopped the car with me & my baby in it the hood rats on the motorcycles would've been the least of his worries.


I've been in that same situation. I pulled out in front of a Harley cruising at 65 in a 35. He obviously had to slow down since I was in front of him. Angered by my lack of understanding that he ruled the road, he passed me on the left and slammed on his breaks getting me to slow. Luckily, I was able to turn and get to a crowded street. But at a stop light he dismounted and tried to open my car door, telling me to get out of the car. Mind you it was one biker and I was a 17 year old in a family minivan on a residential road picking my my sister up from a school rally early Saturday morning. Had it not been for other patrons shaming the biker, it could have ended much different. The thought of bumping the guy didn't cross my mind as an accident at the age of 17 means no more driving in my family. The dents in the door from his punching was enough to remind me that I never will let that happen again.

That brings up the question from the video - What do you do if you're boxed in on all sided and the vehicle in front of you is trying to slow you to stop? This guy either bumped him out of the way to say , hells no or was distracted been his 3 ,6, and 9 o'clock and clipped the guy. If the bikers wanted to do the right thing, they could have just let it all go and enjoyed the ride. Or they could have taken the plate and gotten a claim. Running the guy down, destroying property and assaulting the man In front of family has now negated any chance of compensation for the damage to the bike.


----------



## tsrwivey

drfacefixer said:


> That brings up the question from the video. What do you do if you're boxed in on all sided and the vehicle in front of you is trying to slow you to stop?


Gas it, petal to the metal.


----------



## LincTex

tsrwivey said:


> Gas it, petal to the metal.


Those bikes are wider than you think!! Get one jammed up under you sideways so one of your drive wheels is now off the ground and see how well that idea works!!


----------



## DJgang

Grimm said:


> Regardless of how it started or who is at fault they all committed crimes and should be arrested for said crimes as the law states. I don't care if there was some harassment by the bikers before the rover clipped him. The rover did not stop as required by law in an accident. The fact the rover didn't pull over and stay at the scene in his locked car til the police he should have called arrived shows he is at fault as well for this whole f***ed up mess!
> 
> I don't care who is the one who started it. Everyone involved committed a crime or two and should be arrested as the law is written. You commit a crime, you go to jail.
> 
> End of story.


Grimm honey, if this ever happens to you, don't get out if your vehicle. I know you want to do what's 'right' but girl, those people looked like feral beasts coming after him. Now that's the end of the story. No it all shouldn't have happened to begin with, but it did.


----------



## dixiemama

Grimm, if this happens to you, with Roo in the car, are you gonna sit on the side of the road, surrounded by men (boys who think they're men) in a hazardous situation or are going to get to a public parking lot with cameras and witnesses? If you stay on the roadside, yea there are lits of people going by, but would you trust someone with just a fleeting glimpse to be your witness?

They can bust all your windows, gain access to you and your child and put you both at risk. They pull Roo out, then you. You are trying to keep an eye on her, calm the situation and she wonders into traffic. 

My fat ass is locking doors, speeding up while weaving in and out of traffic (medians and shoulders) cuz someone is going to see a reckless driver and call the cops while I'm on the phone describing the situation and all bikes involved.


----------



## Geek999

Unfortunately, this is NYC where you can't carry a firearm. In a free state this whole incident would be less likely to occur and easier to resolve if it did occur.


----------



## drfacefixer

LincTex said:


> Those bikes are wider than you think!! Get one jammed up under you sideways so one of your drive wheels is now off the ground and see how well that idea works!!


I was thinking that if It came to dammaging my car, I would be swinging side to side with only the use of acceleration as a bluff. Ofcourse slowing or halting would be the last thing I would do.


----------



## Grimm

If Roo were with me my mom instinct would be to call the police and get off the freeway till they could arrive. In all honesty I drive like a little old lady with Roo in the car so I don't see me clipping a biker because he cut me off.


----------



## gabbyj310

I'm in NY city right now and this is ALL over the news.My sister and her husband ride Harleys as well as both of my nephews(they are very responsible people and respect everyone on the roads),so I watched this with close intent!! I can truthfully say if you see what we are seeing in NY the guy in the SUV did the right thing. He was surrounded by these guys and not just one or two but a whole ton of them. They were harassing the guy in the SUV and with his wife and child in there; he did what he should have done !! Get them out of danger and there was danger.People do very DUMB things it the heat of temper and peer pressure.The guy was scared and I say he did the right thing. I would never ever ever pull over and wait for police..ha fat chance anywhere much less NYC.The wife and baby could have been easily hurt or even killed in this incident.


----------



## Ravensoracle

I have a cut, have a Harley, and ride as much as I can.... I go to bike rallies for fun when I can get someone to watch the kids overnight. I am not a 1%'r and not trying to claim to be, but many would se my rough appearance and say biker. 

These A-holes aren't bikers. If you see the videos that the cameraman posted this group was harassing people long before the range rover. If I was caught in the middle of this group and my kids and wife were in the car... You may not like it... but those sport bikes would be decorating my grill the minute they tried to stop me. 

People were in the wrong and the range rover may have done something provoking before the video that we haven't seen but I think he had every right to plow away like he did when a mob was cornering him. I have only met one fellow biker that didn't side with the range rover after seeing all the videos this group has put out. 

He is a natural jerk though and is a POS in his own right that can't be trusted with anything you don't want to disappear. He'd most likely ride with that group if given the chance.


----------



## Gians

Some pricks like to show off when out with their buddies when they know they have you out numbered, it only takes a few then things get outta hand. No frigging way I would have stopped. I'd try like hell not to hurt anyone but I'd make tracks no matter what. Sorry thing is, they were calling for help from the police and there were at least two off duty police riding with the group :dunno:
Goes back to not relying on others for help, SUV driver is lucky he wasn't killed.


----------



## tsrwivey

People in groups are dangerous, they'll do things in a group they would never even consider doing on their own. I wouldn't care how many I had to injure or kill to get my baby away from there. If their grown enough to be riding a motorcycle they're old enough to know better than messing with a momma with her baby. Honestly, calling the cops would be the last thing on my mind. I'd probably call my husband before I'd call the cops. I have way more faith in him.


----------



## LincTex

tsrwivey said:


> People in groups are dangerous, they'll do things in a group they would never even consider doing on their own..


Quoted for truth.
Even if the other guys don't "back him up" there's a perception in his mind they will.... so out comes the "extra arrogance"


----------



## FatTire

Just a follow up on this.. Turns out more than one of the 'bikers' was a cop..

http://news.yahoo.com/video/internal-affairs-cop-comes-forward-115113839.html



> Another member of the NYPD has come forward, admitting he was part of the group of bikers who would brutally beat NYC dad Alexian Lien following a road rage incident on the West Side Highway. In this case however, the biker is not an undercover cop but a member of the Internal Affairs Bureau, DNAinfo reported Thursday.


http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ng-SUV-Video-West-Side-Highway-227231151.html



> The off-duty undercover NYPD officer who was allegedly involved in a violent fight between a group of motorcyclists and a man driving a Range Rover has been identified in one of the videos taken that day.


I think theres two valuable lessons here. First, dont be a doosh on the road, its not worth it. Play nice, share, n drive carefully. Next, dont live somewhere that its frowned upon or even illegal to defend yourself, because it seems pretty clear that you cant count on the cops...


----------



## BillM

When I was a Deputy Sheriff, we were taught that if we were being assaulted in our vehicle, to drive out of the "kill zone". It was reported that the bikers were harassing the SUV driver and attempting to stop him prior to his clipping the biker. this is why he was not charged.


----------



## wtxprepper

If yall saw the original video that came out a week ago, the biker provoked him yes did that give the driver the right to hit him, no!! Yes he did have his wife and baby in the car but does that give him the right to run over 6 bikers in front of him sending them to the hospital and putting one in critical condition. Did the driver get charged with anything no and why cause he is the "victim," did the biker provoke him yes but he didn't get in front of him and slam on the brakes he got in front and let off the throttle not once did you see his brake light come on until the rover hit him so the driver had time to slow down before clipping the bike. It all comes back to an old saying you mess with the bull you get the horns, just my shiny two coppers thank you and have a nice day


----------



## Grimm

wtxprepper said:


> If yall saw the original video that came out a week ago, the biker provoked him yes *did that give the driver the right to hit him, no!!* Yes he did have his wife and baby in the car but does that give him the right to run over 6 bikers in front of him sending them to the hospital and putting one in critical condition. Did the driver get charged with anything no and why cause he is the "victim," did the biker provoke him yes but he didn't get in front of him and slam on the brakes he got in front and let off the throttle not once did you see his brake light come on until the rover hit him so the driver had time to slow down before clipping the bike. It all comes back to an old saying you mess with the bull you get the horns, just my shiny two coppers thank you and have a nice day


THANK YOU!
I agree it doesn't matter if he was provoked he had NO right to hit/injure anyone else. He could have slowed waaaaaaay down and gotten away from them then called the police.


----------



## wtxprepper

I think what it is is everybody is suing the 6 minute video where it starts with the biker beside the rover and right after that the rover bumps him, but who actually saw the nearly 13 minute video of the rover swerving at the bikers long before that biker got up beside his window


----------



## Turtle

I'm just disgusted by the fact that there apparently THREE off-duty cops in the group of bikers. Two did nothing to stop it and one actually participated! It is crap like this that causes the populace to lose faith in cops.


----------



## LincTex

Turtle said:


> I'm just disgusted by the fact that there apparently THREE off-duty cops in the group of bikers. Two did nothing to stop it and one actually participated! It is crap like this that causes the populace to lose faith in cops.


True, their actions are not helping the general perception of LEO's at all.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

wtxprepper said:


> If yall saw the original video that came out a week ago, the biker provoked him yes did that give the driver the right to hit him, no!! Yes he did have his wife and baby in the car but does that give him the right to run over 6 bikers in front of him sending them to the hospital and putting one in critical condition. Did the driver get charged with anything no and why cause he is the "victim," did the biker provoke him yes but he didn't get in front of him and slam on the brakes he got in front and let off the throttle not once did you see his brake light come on until the rover hit him so the driver had time to slow down before clipping the bike. It all comes back to an old saying you mess with the bull you get the horns, just my shiny two coppers thank you and have a nice day


I completely disagree. The driver considered the bikers a threat to his well-being. He had every right to defend himself. If it had been me they'd have been peeling biker body parts off the car for weeks because I'd have hit every one I could. Then when the vehicle couldn't move because it was stuck on top of all those bikes and bikers I'd have finished the job with my 9mm and/or shotgun.

If I'm surrounded by a "gang" of anything that has apparently hostile intent I will do everything in my power to defend myself and family and that includes mounting an "aggressive/offensive" defense.

The dumba$$ bikers harassing him have no room to whine. I knew a (little) guy in the USMC who would get drunk every Friday night after payday then go find the biggest, black guy he could locate and begin harassing him. Every Monday afterward he would be in formation with his eye(s) blacked and swollen, a fat lip, etc. and I never felt a bit sorry for him. Sometimes you can't fix stupid and you should just let Darwin do his thing. That biker was a stupid bully and thug. He got almost everything he deserved.


----------



## Smoked

Its pretty simple, He had the RIGHT to protect his family and run ANYONE over that was blocking him on the freeway AND blocking his ability to flee from a dangerous situation... If the police and DA thought that the SUV driver was in the wrong, charges would have been brought against him... As to this date, none have... 

Its easy to sit back and play armchair quarterback. For those who say that the SUV driver has some responsibility here, put yourself in his shoes. Drive to a police station or a place with cameras? are you kidding me? He could not even get through traffic to find any of those! did you not see how he fled for miles after he ran over the thug trying to get his family away from the danger? Only thing the suv driver screwed up on was getting off the freeway... should have stayed on there playing cycle pinball until PD got to him... 

Surround me on the freeway and FORCE me to stop my car with my family in there and its ON... period... This was thug mob mentality and it was not going to end with the SUV driver rolling down his window and trying to reason with ANY OF THEM... To think that I dont have the right to protect myself or my family by potentially harming someone else is ludicrous..


----------



## Smoked

Turtle said:


> I'm just disgusted by the fact that there apparently THREE off-duty cops in the group of bikers. Two did nothing to stop it and one actually participated! It is crap like this that causes the populace to lose faith in cops.


I would have to find the article, from what I read and remember though, they where in a different part of this gathering and did not know of the situation with the SUV driver.


----------



## TheLazyL

You do not have the legal right to take a life to defend your property (aka the vehicle your are sitting in).

You do have the legal right to take a life to defend your life or others life's.

I walk up to the vehicle you are driving and use a tire iron to bust out your vehicle's headlights. Legal you can NOT run me over. You life is not in danger!

But when I drop the tire iron and pull a handgun and start pointing towards you, then your life is in danger and legally you can run me over.


----------



## Smoked

TheLazyL said:


> You do not have the legal right to take a life to defend your property (aka the vehicle your are sitting in).
> 
> You do have the legal right to take a life to defend your life or others life's.
> 
> I walk up to the vehicle you are driving and use a tire iron to bust out your vehicle's headlights. Legal you can NOT run me over. You life is not in danger!
> 
> But when I drop the tire iron and pull a handgun and start pointing towards you, then your life is in danger and legally you can run me over.


Actually, in some states, you do have the right to defend your property with lethal force...

taking out a tire iron and smashing my headlights for the most part, does not justify me running you over... surrounding my vehicle and start trying to break your way in on the other hand does...


----------



## Ravensoracle

TheLazyL said:


> You do not have the legal right to take a life to defend your property (aka the vehicle your are sitting in).
> 
> You do have the legal right to take a life to defend your life or others life's.
> 
> I walk up to the vehicle you are driving and use a tire iron to bust out your vehicle's headlights. Legal you can NOT run me over. You life is not in danger!
> 
> But when I drop the tire iron and pull a handgun and start pointing towards you, then your life is in danger and legally you can run me over.


I'd want clarification as a juror about your tire iron incident. If you blocked someone in with a vehicle and were bashing my vehicle with a tire iron, a reasonable person may assume that you are going to come after them next. If they have to run over you to get away. Sorry but they may get away with making you street pizza.

But if they could drive away and instead swerved to hit you then they are in the wrong. The devil is in the details and all what a reasonable person would think in that situation.


----------



## readytogo

lotsoflead said:


> if this report is true, then not all cops are on duty 24/7 and do not serve and protect 24/7.


that`s very true lotsoflead,that is why we as a prepared society most take care ourselves and prepare for the moment when law and order is not around we get hints all the time about situations like this and got to pay attention to them, especially in a major situation were law is going to be busy and parts of town are left open to predators and zombies:gaah:


----------



## wtxprepper

Again who saw the original nearly 13 minute video??? I'm assuming nobody everybody just saw the 6 minute video that was cropped to make the rover driver look like the victim, the rover driver was serving at the bikes hence why the one biker went up to his window and that is where the cropped video started. From the 6 minute video yeah I would side with the driver but with seeing the original, I say you get what you deserve


----------



## majmill

wtxprepper said:


> Again who saw the original nearly 13 minute video??? I'm assuming nobody everybody just saw the 6 minute video that was cropped to make the rover driver look like the victim, the rover driver was serving at the bikes hence why the one biker went up to his window and that is where the cropped video started. From the 6 minute video yeah I would side with the driver but with seeing the original, I say you get what you deserve


OK where can one see this supposed 13 minute video?

Surround me with a bevel of bikers, family or no family, I would make a beeline away. I prefer to be an alive coward!


----------



## HamiltonFelix

I ride bikes and a drive cages. Real life ain't Mad Max. If that driver had been willing to use in Rover as a weapon, those bikers would have been toast. If my family is in danger, I WILL do whatever is necessary to preserve their lives. 

When I am on two wheels, I am polite. The sticker on my bike's trunk says "I share the road with logging trucks." When you are sitting on less that 500 lbs. on a dark foggy morning in a logging town, and you look around are realize you are the only vehicle under 70 feet and 80,000 lbs. you certainly do not ride offensively. 

When I'm driving a cage, I give bikes adequate room. But the A**hole biker who started that whole cluster cut off and brake checked the cage. He got what he deserved and certainly asked for.

So Jerk #1 does something really stupid and suffers an instant consequence. Then Jerk Mob attacks the Rover and freaks out the driver so he's fleeing with his family in panic and more bad things happen. Yep, they are incredibly lucky that guy was only scared and had never trained for protective or anti-terrorist driving. Otherwise, there might be a lot of dead bikers.


----------



## TheLazyL

Smoked said:


> Actually, in some states, you do have the right to defend your property with lethal force... taking out a tire iron and smashing my headlights for the most part, does not justify me running you over... surrounding my vehicle and start trying to break your way in on the other hand does...


What state(s) permit lethal force to defend your property?


----------



## Dakine

TheLazyL said:


> What state(s) permit lethal force to defend your property?


The GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!!! for one at least....

source: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...-castle-doctrine-stand-your-ground-101-a.html

a relevant clip



> What if a TrespasserStarts Committing Other Property Crimes?
> What about defense of property?The use of deadly force to protect property is contained in Texas Penal Code§9.42. This section of the law lays out a couple of scenarios where you arejustified in reasonably using deadly force to protect your property. The firstis if someone is committing trespass or interference with your property and youmust reasonably use deadly force to prevent arson, burglary, robbery,aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime or criminal mischief during thenighttime. If someone is unlawfully on your property and attempting to commitany of these crimes, you will gain the legal justification for using deadlyforce.
> The second scenario isthe law of recovering your property by using deadly force. Texas has a 3-prongtest that, if met, gives a justification in using deadly force to recoverstolen property. This test is as follows: (1) force is necessary to prevent orterminate another's trespass on land or unlawful interference with theproperty, (2) deadly force is reasonably necessary to prevent another who isimmediately fleeing after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, ortheft during the nighttime from escaping with the property, and (3) the personreasonably believes that the property cannot be recovered by any other method orthat the use of non-deadly force to recover the property would expose them to asubstantial risk of death or serious bodily injury. We as lawyers cannot stressenough that under this scenario, while the law may allow you to use deadlyforce - It Is Most Likely A Very Bad Idea!
> As you see, criminaltrespass alone is not one of the crimes listed in Texas Penal Code §9.42 oreven as part of the "Castle Doctrine" under §9.31 or §9.32. A merecriminal trespass may, however, evolve into one of the above crimes where youmay be justified in using deadly force to protect your property. Let's takeanother example, if someone decides to sit on your lawn, you holler at themfrom your bedroom window to "get off my property." If the trespasserrefuses to leave, you are almost certainly not justified in using deadly forceto remove him. But if that person sitting on your lawn gets up and chargestowards your bedroom window with a firearm and a crow bar, you will very likelybe legally justified in using deadly force to protect yourself and your home.His actions of charging you with a weapon make him more than just a trespasserunder Texas law.


long story short... the world is a far worse place because it's overrun with douchebags who are allowed to continue doing dirt because it's expedient to some pencil pushers career to get a conviction even if that means tossing a burglary or menacing charge to get a confession on trespass. that and worse happens all the time.


----------



## LincTex

Dakine said:


> The GREAT STATE OF TEXAS!!!! for one at least....
> 
> source: http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...-castle-doctrine-stand-your-ground-101-a.html


As long as you don't have do deal with an a-hole prosecutor. The larger metro areas will still indict you..... guilty until proven innocent.

"Proving yourself out of it" will still cost a large chunk of change.


----------



## cowboyhermit

You don't have to do anything wrong to "incite" road rage, sometimes following the rules of the road or driving a particular type of vehicle is enough for some idiot to take offense. At the same time no one has driven for any length of time without making a mistake or two that usually get shrugged off (no harm no foul) and these mistakes can lead to serious altercations with unstable, possibly under the influence idiots.

Most times the situation will diffuse naturally, especially if the supposed "offending" party is apologetic, however on occasion the escalation is inevitable.

Given that you can't make absolutely certain that you will never be in a situation like this it begs the question "what would you do?"

If I were to be in a situation like that in a big city and with bikes in particular I would avoid traffic like the plague, people in the city likely will not get out to help you. I would NOT to try to out run bikes in a city, that just aint happening, instead I would make certain I had enough room in front of me to do a 180 (theoretically). IMO moving at slow speeds is the best bet at reducing the advantage the bikes have, making them more vulnerable to "defensive maneuvers" I would definitely call for backup, police of course but potentially also others and move towards a safer place to end the altercation, hoping for help to arrive before being forced to stop. In my neck of the woods, there are definite places I can go where people following me will be very sorry but it is tougher in the city, best I can think of in closest city is weigh scales:dunno: or hospital maybe?

Example of idiots looking for a fight;


----------



## TheLazyL

Ravensoracle said:


> I'd want clarification as a juror about your tire iron incident.....


By busting out the headlights with a tire iron I have not shown any intent of using deadly force against the Occupants of the vehicle.

http://youtube.com./watch?v=m7sbHfBg92w


----------



## lotsoflead

it'll be interesting to see how biker gangs get around when the SHsTF and there's no gas, I'm sure none of them have prepped for anything except for maybe their next beer or joint.


----------

