# The Plague or BlackDeath mysteries



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ies-unlocked-by-mcmaster-scientists-1.2512930

*Black Death mysteries unlocked by McMaster scientists*



> Two devastating plagues that decimated much of Europe hundreds of years ago were actually caused by distinct strains of the same pathogen, new research suggests - and scientists say it's not impossible for a new strain of the plague to emerge in humans in the future.
> 
> These findings mark the apex of McMaster University scientist Hendrik Poinar's quest to do something no other scientist has ever done - crack the code of an ancient killer and change the way we fight disease in the 21st century.
> 
> ...


An interesting story to ponder ...


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

The more you know the better you can deal with any Pandemic.


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## tc556guy (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks. I'd never heard of Justinian's Plague before.
What a louse the guy was though; continuing to levy taxes against the deceased population for which they were previously assessed?
That's a pretty cold hearted ruler right there


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

Great post. Pandemic is something I don't usually prep for beyond basic first aid and upgrading post shtf sanitation procedures. I've started studying up on essential oils and medicinal silver. This post will help keep me moving in that direction


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

musketjim said:


> Great post. Pandemic is something I don't usually prep for beyond basic first aid and upgrading post shtf sanitation procedures. I've started studying up on essential oils and medicinal silver. This post will help keep me moving in that direction


If you are looking at essential oils, you may want to research (if you haven't) four thieves oils and the story that goes with it.

http://www.secretofthieves.com/four-thieves-vinegar.cfm


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Does anyone know if the vaccines that have been used in the U.S. in the past 30 or so years are predicted to be effective against future outbreaks of Plague? 

Dont plan on getting re-vaccinated or having anyone in the house get vaccinations, just curious.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Dave:

I just spent a fair mounta time with our county health dept. talkin bout pandemics. They tell me that the problem be that the viruses be a changing. What they havea vaccine fer now may not be effective fer what be comin down the pike. Nother words, it be a crap shoot whether er not the vaccines what they got on hand er be developin er gonna work. I learned a fair mount from our health ladies. Truth be, ifin a plague era pandemic breaks out, we ain't gonna stop it, just try an keep away from it. Best thin be wash yer hands lots with good anti bacterial soap, stay away from sick folk (least 3 feet) an wear a N95 mask.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Dave:
> 
> I just spent a fair mounta time with our county health dept. talkin bout pandemics. They tell me that the problem be that the viruses be a changing. What they havea vaccine fer now may not be effective fer what be comin down the pike. Nother words, it be a crap shoot whether er not the vaccines what they got on hand er be developin er gonna work. I learned a fair mount from our health ladies. Truth be, ifin a plague era pandemic breaks out, we ain't gonna stop it, just try an keep away from it. Best thin be wash yer hands lots with good anti bacterial soap, stay away from sick folk (least 3 feet) an wear a N95 mask.


The only exception to this is if the virus is aerosol communicable then all bets are off. These virus's can get distributed through the entire country in days. Aerosol communicable virus's require a person to stay locked in their house for several weeks or months until the virus burns itself out. Washing your hands will not stop this kind of virus.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I guess I can restate my question, Does anyone know if the Yersinia Pestis bacteria has mutated enough that the vaccines of the mid to late 70's would no longer be effective.

I understand that some vaccines require boosters over the life of the people receiving them but I dont know if the Plague Vaccine is one of them. 

I received more vaccinations than I could count while in the military and Plague was one of them, that is why I'm wondering if the bacteria has mutated enough that it would no longer be effective. I have little faith in vaccines and "I" think many of them do more harm than good, 

I've had a number of "illnesses" that I was vaccinated against but have a lingering hope that they may have some residual effects(benificial) hidden somewhere back in my immune system.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

You'd be super lucky not to get measles at this point despite all the vaccinations you've had, let alone plague of some sort. Vaccination doesn't mean immunity, it just means you MAY have SOME antibodies. The flu vax is notoriously ineffective for over half of the people who get it, so my personal opinion is that it's unlikely there will be an effective vax for the black death any time soon, or that the nitwits will be able to make enough of it in time to save the lives of a significant number of people. Just my opinion.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

lazydaisy67 said:


> You'd be super lucky not to get measles at this point despite all the vaccinations you've had, let alone plague of some sort. Vaccination doesn't mean immunity, it just means you MAY have SOME antibodies. The flu vax is notoriously ineffective for over half of the people who get it, so my personal opinion is that it's unlikely there will be an effective vax for the black death any time soon, or that the nitwits will be able to make enough of it in time to save the lives of a significant number of people. Just my opinion.


Measles is one of the things I was vaccinated for but wound up getting anyway, had it when I was about 8 years old. I've had 2 flu shots in my life, in in 78 and one in 79, both made me so sick I thought I was going to die - I'd rather of had the flu both times.

I'm only hoping that I carry some residual antibodies from the shots I recieved while in the Army and the vaccinations I recieved early in life.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

There are some cases of measles in New York right now. The media is calling it an outbreak, although I believe there's about 37 cases. There's also a mumps 'outbreak' at Ohio state and whooping cough is almost always making it's cycle in various places. In most of these "outbreaks" the media will point their fingers at the irresponsible 'hippies' who aren't vaccinating their children, but surprisingly enough, and much to the CDC's chagrin, almost all of the cases are in vaccinated people..... 
It may be a good time to review your med preps and brush up on nursing care for some of these illnesses if for no other reason than it does appear as if either the vaccinations aren't providing life-long immunity as we've been told, OR the viruses are morphing. Either way, I strongly believe that we will see more and more outbreaks and the best defense it to maintain the strongest immune system you possibly can.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

In the mid 90's, during a Pertussis "outbreak" in South Texas I came down with whooping cough, I'm 100% sure I'd had a recent vaccination for it - had a Tetnus Shot(DPT) a year so before.

Had Mumps in 4th grade and had vaccination for it several years before according to my mother.

I've heard that it is possible for someone who gets the Polio vaccine(live virus vaccine) to actually give the disease to people that have never been vaccinated against it. Most of those cases involved new borns getting the shots and giving it to grandparents who slipped through the cracks and didn't get vaccinated in the 50's and 60's.

Those shots "MAY" have some bennifit for some people but I'd rather take my chances with the "Diseases".


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Best thin be wash yer hands lots with good anti bacterial soap, stay away from sick folk (least 3 feet) an wear a N95 mask.


When someone coughs or sneezes, droplets shoot 6ft, with droplets of infected secretions landing everywhere so I'm not sure where they got 3ft from? :scratch

When my daughter was suspected of having H1N1, our pediatrician stated he had to wear the N95 mask when H1N1 was suspected but that it would be useless because the virus was smaller than the holes in that mask. I don't know what (aside from a hazmat suit) would be effective though. The mask does nothing to protect from contact with all the surfaces contaminated.

Our plan is to stay away, completely away, from others in the event of plague outbreak. I have a nice stash antibiotics & other meds but I know others arent too keen on modern medicine.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Let me see if I can explain how a mask might help.

Three people eat pizza that has been left out too long. The first eats only one slice and does not get sick because there are not enough pathogens on one slice. The second eats two slices and does not get sick because they have a strong immune system. The third eats two slices and gets sick because of a weakened immune system.

The mask will reduce the amount of pathogens reaching you. With any luck you will not receive enough to make you sick. Your health, hand washing, and other factors will affect the success of this effort. There are no guarantees.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Caribou said:


> Let me see if I can explain how a mask might help.
> 
> The mask will reduce the amount of pathogens reaching you. With any luck you will not receive enough to make you sick.


It doesn't work like that. A mask is like a fish net, if you try to catch minnows with a net meant for big fish, you're not likely to have much success, if any, & the amount of minnows you do manage to catch will pale in comparison to the ones that got through. Then plague/pandemic viruses spread so quickly because they are able to resist your body's first line defenses, reproduce quickly & change so your immune system can't identify them as an invader. It really doesn't matter much how many you start off with, the rate of replication & the immune system's failure to identify them as an invader will lead to illness.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I believe that it was about 5-6 years ago the CDC commissioned a study to find out how many people had been exposed to the virus's from a recent flu that had just hit the general populace. After drawing blood from a large cross section, they discovered that a high 90% of the people tested had the anti-bodies for that flu. This means that they were infected. The reported number of sick (reported by doctors) was only about 25%. Now this was from a disease that was similar to previous flu that had come through the area over the previous 10 years. This meant that some of the people already had an immunity to it from exposer to similar diseases..

The article then went on to say that if a virus was to come through that no one had any immunity to, the number of sick would be closer to the 90%. The death toll would be fairly high.

The experts said that the only way to protect yourself from a new virus (unseen in the human race) that we had no immunity to was to lock yourself in our houses for a extended period which could be as much as 2 months.


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## dirtgrrl (Jun 5, 2011)

Re: Caribou's post- A mask can be effective as long as it keeps out what the virus is attached to. Most viruses are not floating around by themselves, but are attached to moisture droplets, dust, etc. that are many times bigger than the virus itself. So while a mask may not protect 100%, it is definitely better than nothing. 

Also remember that an effective mask must protect all your vulnerable places like your eyes, and that your own sanitation practices are just as important. A face mask is no good if you touch a contaminated surface, like a doorknob or chair, then rub your eyes. Also beware of touching yourself while using the toilet and cleansing yourself after. Same principle, contaminated hands contacting mucous membranes, introducing viruses into the body.

A surprising amount of pesticide poisonings happen that way. A field worker takes a leak without removing his gloves and exposes (heh- no pun intended) his genital area to the pesticides he's working with. The skin is thin and tender around there and absorbs them quickly.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

dirtgrrl said:


> Re: Caribou's post- A mask can be effective as long as it keeps out what the virus is attached to. Most viruses are not floating around by themselves, but are attached to moisture droplets, dust, etc. that are many times bigger than the virus itself. So while a mask may not protect 100%, it is definitely better than nothing.
> 
> Also remember that an effective mask must protect all your vulnerable places like your eyes, and that your own sanitation practices are just as important. A face mask is no good if you touch a contaminated surface, like a doorknob or chair, then rub your eyes. Also beware of touching yourself while using the toilet and cleansing yourself after. Same principle, contaminated hands contacting mucous membranes, introducing viruses into the body.
> 
> A surprising amount of pesticide poisonings happen that way. A field worker takes a leak without removing his gloves and exposes (heh- no pun intended) his genital area to the pesticides he's working with. The skin is thin and tender around there and absorbs them quickly.


What you say is true!

The only problem is that we are human and we will touch or face, nose, eyes at some time while wearing the mask. If there is deadly virus going around even the most disciplined medical workers will get contaminated.

When I took my EMT training they said the same thing about masks.

When I worked in the nuclear industry we had considerably more training with SCUBA and full face masks with 100% X3 full body protection. What this meant was 3 layers of protection which included 3 paper coveralls, 3 head covers, 3 booties, 3 rubber gloves and working gloves over them. Every seam was sealed with duct tape. After you are done you have to be inspected by a trained person before entering a nuclear area.

Coming out of the contaminated area we went through 3 decontamination ports where you enter the first port the first layer is removed, then you go through the second exit port and remove the second layer. After removing all layers and you are down to just underwear you go through a walk through that measures radiation contamination. Almost everyday with all the protection we had some one was getting contaminated.

Now we had the equipment that could detect the contaminated to keep people from getting into the clean areas. If I was dealing with a virus and some one entered my home and was contaminated it would be too late.

Just from life experience I have discovered that the government training will tell you just enough to make you think that you are safe. And then when you find out the hard way that it wasn't true it's your hard luck.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

One thing we all can do is stop using anti-bacterial soap. It sounds good but in reality it creates a playground on your skin for bacteria to become MRSA. Good old plain soap cleans your skin. I spent over a decade in the chemical business and folks on that side will tell you straight up that just plain soap is what you need to be using. GB


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

tsrwivey said:


> When someone coughs or sneezes, droplets shoot 6ft, ... not sure where they got 3ft from? :scratch


"Mythbusters" showed that sneeze spray goes WAY farther than 6 feet!

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/slow-motion-sneezes.htm


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Davarm said:


> I guess I can restate my question, Does anyone know if the Yersinia Pestis bacteria has mutated enough that the vaccines of the mid to late 70's would no longer be effective.
> 
> I understand that some vaccines require boosters over the life of the people receiving them but I dont know if the Plague Vaccine is one of them.
> 
> ...


I was in the Air Force 1961-1965 and one of the shots we got was for Black Plague, one guy ended up getting a low level plague sickness from the shot. The trouble with many diseases is that with the overuse of antibiotics bacterias do mutate leaving antibiotics with little or no effect.


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