# Nonconsumptive groups



## *Andi

That is groups that say wildlife mammals (large & small) should be viewed, drawn or photographed ... never hunted or an kind of harvest. (Not for sport, population control or human use.) No leather, wool or fur ...

This just came up in conversation and I must I can't rap my head around this ... What would happen to wildlife populations if we were to just stop hunting? I see the deer (and other animals) that are killed on the road now ... (and)

I'm a bad person because I shear sheep (well that and hunt. ) But come on ... I can't shear my sheep because it is mean ... How do they think the sheep would fair with all the wool, year after year. 



Now I don't want to get into a big peta rant but I mean come on ???


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## The_Blob

WHY would you bother to battle an 'unarmed' opponent?  :nuts:

I KNOW that you have better things to do...


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## goshengirl

Well, I _do _love to photograph creatures.

But I also love my steak.
And chicken.
Oh! And bacon - love me some bacon!

Geez, getting hungry now! :gaah:


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## kejmack

Funny you should post about this, Andi. I just met someone a few days ago who was of this mindset. She also informed me that if I am walking in the woods and a bear attacks me I should not shoot the bear. It is my fault for being in the woods. I asked her where exactly should people live. She said, the city. I said, how do people in the city get food if all the country people are eaten by bears? It was a bizarre conversation, but I tell you she believed this crap 100%. I asked her if she likes cupcakes with her latte. She got excited and said yes. Then, I pointed out to her that cupcakes are made with milk and eggs. She got pissed and left.


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## *Andi

kejmack said:


> Funny you should post about this, Andi. I just met someone a few days ago who was of this mindset. She also informed me that if I am walking in the woods and a bear attacks me I should not shoot the bear. It is my fault for being in the woods. I asked her where exactly should people live. She said, the city. I said, how do people in the city get food if all the country people are eaten by bears? It was a bizarre conversation, but I tell you she believed this crap 100%. I asked her if she likes cupcakes with her latte. She got excited and said yes. Then, I pointed out to her that cupcakes are made with milk and eggs. She got pissed and left.


Bizarre ... That is the word ...

I mean you hear about them but to come face to face ... WOW!!!

You ask the question and it is just rant after rant. 

I'm mean to shear the sheep makes me bad ... alright ... If I do not shear them for a few years ... and they get maggots in the wool (and they die from that) ... would that also be my bad ???

I saw no middle ground only rants ...


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## Tank_Girl

*Andi said:


> Bizarre ... That is the word ...
> 
> I mean you hear about them but to come face to face ... WOW!!!
> 
> You ask the question and it is just rant after rant.
> 
> I'm mean to shear the sheep makes me bad ... alright ... If I do not shear them for a few years ... and they get maggots in the wool (and they die from that) ... would that also be my bad ???
> 
> I saw no middle ground only rants ...


Show 'em some pictures of a sheep with fly strike where the maggots are eating into the animal's flesh.
People go up in arms with mulsing sheep and tail docking but it's an acceptable husbandry practice that is done for the health of the animal and not because the farmer has some sadist wish to inflict harm on the animal just for the sake of it.


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## goshengirl

kejmack said:


> I asked her if she likes cupcakes with her latte. She got excited and said yes. Then, I pointed out to her that cupcakes are made with milk and eggs. She got pissed and left.


:lolsmash: <snort>

Sometimes you've just got to laugh....


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## mosquitomountainman

You're using logic against emotion. Emotion is a primitive response and logic is a learned response. You're talking above their IQ level so there's little chance of making a connection. Maybe someday if they actually develope some cognitive brain function you'll stand a chance with them but until then it's like oil and water. It just doesn't mix. :gaah:

The scary thing is that these people vote in elections.


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## Bobbb

The idiocy of liberals is legendary.

Let's see, there's the voluntary human extinction movement.

Then there are the environmentalists in Africa who are so concerned about wildlife there that they are bribing African governments to set up wildlife reserves and forcible remove tribes that have lived in harmony with the wildlife in their territory for many thousands of years, thus making these tribes people into poverty stricken slum dwellers as they are forcibly relocated to cities. Hey, at least environmentalists can feel good about saving the African Honey Badger and giving it some territory to romp around in.


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## Davarm

Here Here.... Animals should be appreciated!

Up close and personal - Baked, Bar-B-Q'd, Fried and just about any other way you want to fix em. I'd bet they would change their minds if their children were crying and hungry with no Tofu in the fridge. If they didnt, they'd deserve exactly what was waiting for them.


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## Zanazaz

*Andi said:


> That is groups that say wildlife mammals (large & small) should be viewed, drawn or photographed ... never hunted or an kind of harvest. (Not for sport, population control or human use.) No leather, wool or fur ...
> 
> This just came up in conversation and I must I can't rap my head around this ... What would happen to wildlife populations if we were to just stop hunting? I see the deer (and other animals) that are killed on the road now ... (and)
> 
> I'm a bad person because I shear sheep (well that and hunt. ) But come on ... I can't shear my sheep because it is mean ... How do they think the sheep would fair with all the wool, year after year.
> 
> 
> 
> Now I don't want to get into a big peta rant but I mean come on ???


Don't get me started. There's a group called Friends of Animals, and they're protesting Texas ranchers who have herds of African game animals. ( Actually there are more of these animals in Texas than Africa now... ) To offset their expenses, the ranchers will occasionally let hunters come in and "hunt".

Heck, these nitwits don't even think the animals should be in Texas. They would rather let them become extinct...

You can't win with these types. It's best to walk away.


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## Davarm

Zanazaz said:


> Don't get me started. There's a group called Friends of Animals, and they're protesting Texas ranchers who have herds of African game animals. ( Actually there are more of these animals in Texas than Africa now... ) To offset their expenses, the ranchers will occasionally let hunters come in and "hunt".
> 
> Heck, these nitwits don't even think the animals should be in Texas. They would rather let them become extinct...
> 
> You can't win with these types. It's best to walk away.


I'd like to see them protest at Ted Nugents Ranch, the Motor City Mad Man would likely mount them and put em above the fire place with the rest of his trophies.

After all these years, he still has that crazy look in his eyes.


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## Woody

I have this on my computer, it is a classified ad:

"To all you hunters who kill animals for food, shame on you; you ought to go to the store and buy the meat that was made there, where no animals were harmed"


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## UncleJoe

*Andi said:


> I'm mean to shear the sheep makes me bad ... alright ... If I do not shear them for a few years ... and they get maggots in the wool (and they die from that) ... would that also be my bad ???


Does this woman ever cut her hair to keep it manageable? :nuts:



Woody said:


> I have this on my computer, it is a classified ad:
> 
> "To all you hunters who kill animals for food, shame on you; you ought to go to the store and buy the meat that was made there, where no animals were harmed"


 Sounds like something you would see on craigslist. :nuts:


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## catsraven

Woody said:


> I have this on my computer, it is a classified ad:
> 
> "To all you hunters who kill animals for food, shame on you; you ought to go to the store and buy the meat that was made there, where no animals were harmed"


:lolsmash: :lolsmash: :lolsmash:


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## kejmack

Zanazaz said:


> Don't get me started. There's a group called Friends of Animals, and they're protesting Texas ranchers who have herds of African game animals. ( Actually there are more of these animals in Texas than Africa now... ) To offset their expenses, the ranchers will occasionally let hunters come in and "hunt".


I am in Mason, TX. Our main industries are hunting and ranching. We know all about FofA here. Occasionally hunt, nothing. It is an industry here. There are huge ranches here just for hunting.

You are absolutely right about more African animals here than in Africa. The problem we have here is the Federal Government. They are constantly harassing the ranchers. They have to get a permit to put some animals out of their misery if they are sick or injured because they are "endangered". They might be endangered in Africa, but there are loads of them in Texas.


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## The_Blob

How do you know if someone is a Vegan?

They'll *TELL* you!

:lolsmash:


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## valannb22

Woody said:


> I have this on my computer, it is a classified ad:
> 
> "To all you hunters who kill animals for food, shame on you; you ought to go to the store and buy the meat that was made there, where no animals were harmed"


Duh! The magic Steak Fairy brings all the meat to the grocery store. I personally have no problem with hunting or farming animals for food. Did you know that PETA actually euthanizes most of the animals they claim to "rescue"


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## goshengirl

valannb22 said:


> Duh! The magic Steak Fairy brings all the meat to the grocery store.


Yeah, and I wish she'd use that wand and pump out some more steaks that don't cost so much!

If we aren't supposed to eat meat, why are animals so dang tasty? :dunno:


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## cnsper

Never argue with an idiot, they will beat you with experience.

Now I like to photograph animals too....

As they are being field dressed.


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## kejmack

Another thing that I noticed when I was talking to this woman was that she thought she was so "enlightened" for having this position and she felt so superior to me as if she had evolved to a higher level. She could never see that she was nothing more than an useful idiot.


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## The_Blob

kejmack said:


> Another thing that I noticed when I was talking to this woman was that she thought she was so "enlightened" for having this position and she felt so superior to me as if she had evolved to a higher level. She could never see that she was nothing more than an useful idiot.


'useful' might be stretching it a bit... :nuts: :lolsmash:


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## Lake Windsong

My young daughter has chosen to be vegetarian. We've discussed the vegetarian/vegan choices in depth, and she knows that she chooses where she 'draws the line' as to what is acceptable to her and what is not.
I think she's showing a maturity level higher than some adults who eat overly processed foods without a care in the world as to what's in it or how it's made. And she is responsible for a lot of the garden growing and herbal tinctures, balms, teas, so forth that we make.
I think there's a difference between choosing what's acceptable for one's own consumption and preaching to everyone else high-and-mighty style about their own choices. I'm really proud of her for knowing the difference at such a young age and for researching her food options better than many others I know.


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## kejmack

valannb22 said:


> Duh! The magic Steak Fairy brings all the meat to the grocery store. I personally have no problem with hunting or farming animals for food. Did you know that PETA actually euthanizes most of the animals they claim to "rescue"


Yes! I knew that, but for some reason it is not widely reported, is it??? PETA execs also live in mansions and drive cars with leather seats while their underlings do without. What a bunch of hypocrites!


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## kejmack

Lake Windsong said:


> I think she's showing a maturity level higher than some adults who eat overly processed foods without a care in the world as to what's in it or how it's made.


Whoa! You are ASSUMING that the rest of us eat processed foods and don't care. Not true! Just because we eat meat doesn't make us ignorant barbarians. This is exactly the arrogance we are discussing on this thread.

I'd worry more about the brainwashing that your young daughter has been exposed to. Young children should not be thinking about vegetarian issues. They should be having a childhood.

You don't know me or anyone else here. But I will tell you that I personally make almost everything from scratch and I happen to grow 80% of it myself. And when we butcher a cow, or a pig, or a chicken I do NOT feel the least bit of guilt because I know that animal has been well cared for it's entire life. And, wow, does homegrown meat ever taste good!


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## Lake Windsong

kejmack said:


> Whoa! You are ASSUMING that the rest of us eat processed foods and don't care. Not true! Just because we eat meat doesn't make us ignorant barbarians. This is exactly the arrogance we are discussing on this thread.
> 
> I'd worry more about the brainwashing that your young daughter has been exposed to. Young children should not be thinking about vegetarian issues. They should be having a childhood.
> 
> You don't know me or anyone else here. But I will tell you that I personally make almost everything from scratch and I happen to grow 80% of it myself. And when we butcher a cow, or a pig, or a chicken I do NOT feel the least bit of guilt because I know that animal has been well cared for it's entire life. And, wow, does homegrown meat ever taste good!


Read my post. I never accused anyone on this forum. Wow.

And for the record, I do know people on this forum, who I am glad to count as personal, face to face actual friends.


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## *Andi

Lake Windsong said:


> My young daughter has chosen to be vegetarian. We've discussed the vegetarian/vegan choices in depth, and she knows that she chooses where she 'draws the line' as to what is acceptable to her and what is not.
> I think she's showing a maturity level higher than some adults who eat overly processed foods without a care in the world as to what's in it or how it's made. And she is responsible for a lot of the garden growing and herbal tinctures, balms, teas, so forth that we make.
> I think there's a difference between choosing what's acceptable for one's own consumption and preaching to everyone else high-and-mighty style about their own choices. I'm really proud of her for knowing the difference at such a young age and for researching her food options better than many others I know.


To each their own ... I'm cool with that. 

The point I was making was I'm bad because I work wool. (To be honest I had no clue that spinning wool from my own sheep ... was in their thoughts as "BAD".

To me not to shear the sheep for years would be bad. But that is just the way I see it.


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## Lake Windsong

I agree, Andi. 
I am certainly not a vegetarian.
My daughter chooses to be, and is responsible enough to make healthy choices to make sure she gets the nutrients she needs, so I support her.


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## kejmack

LOL The point I was making is that eating meat is not bad either. Like you said, Andi, to each his own. For people who preach that they are enlightened, they aren't very tolerant. LOL


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## zombieresponder

If you want to know what happens when animals aren't hunted, it's simple. They overpopulate, then starve to death because there isn't enough for them to forage on.


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## siletz

In Oregon, we have a lot of people that believe that all the logging roads in the forests should be dismantled so that the only access to the "wilderness" is by backpacking in. It's a matter of restricting it's use to the select few . 

I have found, though, that it's usually the city dwellers that have the most extreme views because they are less connected with where all their stuff comes from to begin with.


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## Immolatus

Sentry18 said:


>


Hear hear!

I have no problem with anyone being a vegetarian/vegan. I got lots of friends and family that are vegetarians ("some of my best friends are vegetarians!" lol), more power to em. My dad cant eat meat (technically fat) because of a heart condition.
One of my best friends (college roommate) became a vegan for a long time and I developed a litany of insults to hurl his way over the many years. Still loads of fun!

As to the OP- according to my buddy in WV, theres no such thing as a 'non consumptive group'. I ask him all the time "Do people eat those?" and the answer is always "Yes".


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## *Andi

zombieresponder said:


> If you want to know what happens when animals aren't hunted, it's simple. They overpopulate, then starve to death because there isn't enough for them to forage on.


This I know ... but I guess "the groups" see that as better than a hunter...

Immolatus ~ Sorry ... My friend, West Virginia is a very different place than what I grew up in. Where the first day of hunting a was a school holiday. It has changed sooo much. (breaks my heart)


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## Immolatus

In his circle, its still like that, and still understood. Deer season opens, and everyones calling in sick to find themselves afield. Last year I took off work on the first day of the season in WV.


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## *Andi

Glad to hear some parts of the state are still Wild and Wonderful ....


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## UncleJoe

*Andi said:


> Where the first day of hunting a was a school holiday.


Where I grew up in N.C. Pa, the first day of buck season was considered an acceptable "absentee" excuse. Don't know if that's still the case or not.


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## biobacon

Well if some one dosent want to eat meet Im ok with that, My wifes cousian and her husband are that way, but I've never heared them try to get any one else to live that way. I think its pretty foolish to lump killing and eating animals for food into the same catagory as taking care of your sheep, its not the same thing at all. For that matter going out and hunting/fishing for you own meet is a lot more natural then going to Walmart and buying it. (Im not a hunter and thats where I get my meet LOL). In Ohio where I live they say there are 5x more white tail then in 1890. Why should that be? Dont hunters kill them all every year? LOL I dont understand why we dont start havesting more of them and turkeys to boot. Why not have a McVenision or a Turkywhooper? If we did that maybe it would be cheep enough that we could stop cutting down the amazon to make way for more cheep beef famrs. We and the peta people would all be a lot better off then. And I suppose the women in the OP never drives or even gets rides or uses electriciy because fuel and coal plants use old dinosaurs right? lol


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## brightstar

My moms boyfriend is a super liberal vegan (ugh). My mom is vegan too but doesn't ever force it on anyone like him. The first thing he said when he met me was, "people have outlived their usefulness and should die off to give mother earth back to mother earth." I am a 27 yr old woman who hunts with her husband and is conservative. I looked at him and said, "Ok, you first." He hasn't really liked me since then lol.


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## kyredneck

The fewer there are that hunts, the more game there is for those that do.

When I was growing up there were no deer or turkey in these parts, now they're pests, literally, and a road hazard too. I've actually hit four deer myself, totaled two automobiles. Know two people that had their windsheilds busted out from hitting turkeys this year.

Racoons. Growing up I rarely seen any road kills, now they're a common sight on the road. Fewer **** hunters now, lots more *****. Last couple corn crops I grew ***** were very destructive (deer too, and I've got outside dogs!).

P.S. Some advice from experience. If you've never cleaned a road kill deer, DON'T open them up! It's like a blender went off inside them. Take what hams, shoulders, back strap you can get off the carcass without 'field dressing' them, trim away the bruised meat, and be done with it.


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## cjn79

The_Blob said:


> How do you know if someone is a Vegan?
> 
> They'll TELL you!
> 
> :lolsmash:


Because they will be skin and bones and look sickly as well. You ever notice this. IMO they are former anorexic or bulimics. I think Vegan and vegetarian is a sickness not a life style. They die younger as well according to online statistics which again IMO isn't a bad thing. Sorry if I offend anyone, but politically correctness is against my religion. Im too fed up with these types of judgmental people to give a crap.


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## valannb22

Just gonna leave this here....


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## HozayBuck

*I didn't read all the reply's to the OP but here is the bottom line. These people will not survive long in a SHTF world. Oh some might simply because they may know enough to be able to graze thru the country side and make it. But IMHO most won't make it because they are for the most part Non-violent types which is fine as far as it goes but how can somebody who can't / won't harm a fish or deer going to handle having to kill or would some Mutant Zombie Biker form Hell?

They are very low in survival potential as a whole. Granted a lot are very good in the outdoors and should do well...Most won't. By the same token I'm not well versed on wild eatable wild plants so... maybe I need to team up with some tree huggers.. I'll trade security for good wild weeds to eat with my roasted tree rat...

Adapt or die..Mother nature don't give a crap which you do.*


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## cjn79

valannb22 said:


> Just gonna leave this here....


Lmao. How nice of you valann


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## Jimthewagontraveler

I met a vegarian once.
And it was great.
The meat was well marbled.


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## Boomy

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> I met a vegarian once.
> And it was great.
> The meat was well marbled.


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## pixieduster

My DH is 6'6" 290lbs. His hobby is burning meat on the pit. I can't see him surviving without the extra protein, calories, fats, etc. And he break down and cry.....


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## Viking

UncleJoe said:


> Does this woman ever cut her hair to keep it manageable? :nuts:


 Did she have dreadlocks? If so maybe the maggots infested that and it was just a simple route to the brain, then it all makes sense. She's a maggot brained idiot and there is nothing there to argue about.:gaah:


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## Viking

zombieresponder said:


> If you want to know what happens when animals aren't hunted, it's simple. They overpopulate, then starve to death because there isn't enough for them to forage on.


On top of this is the wasting diseases, hair loss and all kinds of things the animals suffer through. I might add here that vegetables are living organisms, we really don't know if they suffer when they are jerked from the earth, cut from the vine or roughly pulled from the plant. So when I make a clean instant kill, usually head or neck, I know the animals suffering is very short lived. Vegetables on the other hand die a slow shriveling death, so vegans are no better than us meat eaters.


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## Bobbb

Viking said:


> Vegetables on the other hand die a slow shriveling death, so vegans are no better than us meat eaters.


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## jsriley5

I agree with the vhmet folks they definitely ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT BREED. As for vegies I don't care as long as they stay out of my way on the way to my burger. Lots of hypocrisy among the veggie crowd some arent all that careful to make sure they avoid the milk and egg products, and some are just veggie when they are out to be "in" and will eat meat at home. I promise you no hypocrisy here I eat everything that do n't move faster than me  And that included wild critters that I have shot, yes they moved faster than me before I shot them, but not after


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## dixiemama

How do these people think their ancestors lived? They wld not be here without all the wild game.


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## labotomi

cjn79 said:


> Because they will be skin and bones and look sickly as well. You ever notice this. IMO they are former anorexic or bulimics. I think Vegan and vegetarian is a sickness not a life style. They die younger as well according to online statistics which again IMO isn't a bad thing. Sorry if I offend anyone, but politically correctness is against my religion. Im too fed up with these types of judgmental people to give a crap.


This is BS.

My mother eats what she grows. The only time meat is in the table is for visitors. She used to eat just as much meat as anyone but slowly ate less and less for whatever reason (I haven't asked) She's in good shape. No heath problems. 79yo and runs a farm with around 60 cattle so the meat is available.

Oh, she took out a coyote recently at 150yds and has killed many deer in her life.

Your opinion is from ignorance and bias. Stupid people will be the first to die off. Which IMO isn't a bad thing. Sorry if I offend you, but political correctness while not against my religion, isn't something I care about.


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## Bobbb

A vegetarian diet is more easily sustained in a modern world but in a PAW the availability of supplements will be reduced, the caloric intake required to live (far more manual labor will be required) will be increased, the seasons will determine what the garden produces rather than having the bounty from around the world be at your fingertips at the supermarket, so I'd expect that those who cling to vegetarianism with strong ethical reasoning are going to suffer for their position.


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## seanallen

Ha ha ha... Yup. My daughter also decided to become a vegan. She made it about two whole weeks before she DESTROYED a triple Whopper. During that time she complained of headaches, weakness, and feeling like crap. I didnt say a whole lot about it. I KNEW how it was gonna end! #my little carnivore!


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## labotomi

Bobbb said:


> A vegetarian diet is more easily sustained in a modern world but in a PAW the availability of supplements will be reduced, the caloric intake required to live (far more manual labor will be required) will be increased, the seasons will determine what the garden produces rather than having the bounty from around the world be at your fingertips at the supermarket, so I'd expect that those who cling to vegetarianism with strong ethical reasoning are going to suffer for their position.


If you're referring to my post... she doesn't take any supplements and is still active due to the farm (more so than I am). The seasons haven't changed so I don't think what the garden produces will be affected. I also stated that what she eats is what is grown in the garden. Only a few things are bought from somewhere else such as coffee, salt and sugar.

Those saying that you can't keep up with the nutritional requirements needed without eating meat are very mistaken. I know that I've gained weight while spending time there even though I was doing much more manual labor than I do in my regular life (I took a 4 month "sabbatical" a few years ago). I had enough beans to fully meet the protein requirements. I didn't feel any different than normal. Many cultures have a large vegetarian base (about 25% of Hindus) and have been for centuries. They have done much manual labor on vegetarian diets.

I love meat. I have no problems eating it, but I can also survive without it and be healthy and happy.

This is my mothers place:
The circled parts are gardens that support her and a couple of her sisters and their husbands. The rest is hayfields or pasture.


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## Bobbb

Vegetarians are always battling the Vitamin B12 deficiency issue in that there are no naturally occurring plant-based sources of B12. This can be overcome by relying on fortification by this presupposes a industrial food chain with chemically fortified foods.


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