# How bad is it?



## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

A retired accountant explains the failure of our elected representatives.

http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/EW5IdwltaAc?rel=0


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It's actually a lot worse than that. He doesn't get into the fact that unfunded liabilities are an additional $5.3 trillion a year. We have an official debt of $16 trillion. Total unfunded liabilities are anywhere from $60 trillion to $200 trillion. Total spending might have to be cut by as much as 90% to meet future funding requirements unless future funding requirements are drastically cut.

In a way, the government is already doing this through the back door. Social security is adjusted only for the official rate of inflation and not the real rate. But worse, a number of states are now limiting the number of medicare prescriptions that someone can get. It might be 2 or it might be 4. I'm a diabetic. I'm in my early 50s and I'm on 6 medications already plus 3 supplements. And lastly, obamacare cuts over $700 billion from medicare. So if the elderly get substandard medical care they'll die quicker and cost the government less money.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

One idea I had about Social Security cuts was to do the adjustments every 2 years instead of every year. It'd save billions relatively painlessly.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It wouldn't be painless for the people who aren't get their cost of living increases. And remember: real inflation is about 10%, not the 2% the government says it is. Social security recipients are already being robbed.


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## Moby76065 (Jul 31, 2012)

BillS said:


> It wouldn't be painless for the people who aren't get their cost of living increases. And remember: real inflation is about 10%, not the 2% the government says it is. Social security recipients are already being robbed.


REAL inflation is not at 10%! We need to move in the direction of Chilli's model for Socail Security. Herman Cane had that right.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

BillS said:


> It wouldn't be painless for the people who aren't get their cost of living increases. And remember: real inflation is about 10%, not the 2% the government says it is. Social security recipients are already being robbed.





Moby76065 said:


> REAL inflation is not at 10%! We need to move in the direction of Chilli's model for Socail Security. Herman Cane had that right.


BillS & Moby, could both of you please support your arguments?

Merely from anecdotal observations: considering that many people who live ONLY on S.S. have an ever increasing portion of their budget dedicated to FOOD, I would say that the 'inflation rate' for them seems even higher than 10%...

CPI is 3.4% & EPI is 8.9%, averaged that's 6.2%, added to 'official' unemployment of 8.3%(?) gives a 'misery index' of 14.5... that's almost Carteresque.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

According to shadowstats.com, real inflation is about 10%:

http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

Or to be more precise, it was above 10% recently and now it's below 10%.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

In real life everybody's inflation rate is different, kinda like what The_Blob said. If you are someone who drives alot your rate would be different than someone who does not own a car. Some people on SS (most?) spend their money on health costs and food mostly (I think). They are going to be hit the worst if food prices spike. Health costs will continue to rise at way above the "normal rate of inflation", which will hit them hard also. The increasing un-employment, rising food costs, rising fuel prices, and smaller numbers of savings accounts lead to increasing numbers of people on food stamps and other aid programs. This leads to increasing burdens on federal, state, and local governments(which all have problems now). Also leads to civil unrest. Which then leads to SHTF??


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

hiwall said:


> Some people on SS (most?) spend their money on health costs and food mostly (I think).


Their healthcare is usually Medicare/Medicaid. Most spend their SS on housing (I include maintenance & taxes in this) and food while depleting their savings on unexpected health issues.

Other than that, I think you're spot on.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

10% inflation rate means that things double every 7 years. I think the SHTF around 2035, (due to oil, global warming, overpopulation and inflation) At that time a two dollar loaf of bread will be almost $8. $4 hamburger will be $16 a Lb. $4 spuds will also be $16. So your looking at $40 to serve your family burgers and fries, at home. Maybe $60 or $70 to go out. Kinda makes me scared. At least this is what Im banking on, all my preps should be ready by 2028-2030. If the SHTF before then I wont be ready but like all of you my family wont be taken completly off guard. O yeah $16-$20 a gallon for gas. 12 gallon tank would cost around $200. I use two and ahalf a week, that would cost me $2000 for 4 weeks. Yep SHTF. By the way if you think im crazy ( that might be kinda something to be proud of in this group) According to inthe70s.com, it was 65 cents a gallon in 1977. At that rate it would be more like $24 a gallon or $288 a tank. Yep as i said the SHTF around 2035.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

biobacon said:


> 10% inflation rate means that things double every 7 years. I think the SHTF around 2035, (due to oil, global warming, overpopulation and inflation) At that time a two dollar loaf of bread will be almost $8. $4 hamburger will be $16 a Lb. $4 spuds will also be $16. So your looking at $40 to serve your family burgers and fries, at home. Maybe $60 or $70 to go out. Kinda makes me scared. At least this is what Im banking on, all my preps should be ready by 2028-2030. If the SHTF before then I wont be ready but like all of you my family wont be taken completly off guard. O yeah $16-$20 a gallon for gas. 12 gallon tank would cost around $200. I use two and ahalf a week, that would cost me $2000 for 4 weeks. Yep SHTF. By the way if you think im crazy ( that might be kinda something to be proud of in this group) According to inthe70s.com, it was 65 cents a gallon in 1977. At that rate it would be more like $24 a gallon or $288 a tank. Yep as i said the SHTF around 2035.


If it waits until 2035 for SHTF, then I'll be very happily surprised(and dead from old age).


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

biobacon said:


> 10% inflation rate means that things double every 7 years. I think the SHTF around 2035, (due to oil, global warming, overpopulation and inflation)


We're not going to have steady, consistent 10% inflation. We're going to see hyperinflation very soon. Hyperinflation is when you have extremely high rates of inflation and large increases in the velocity of money.

This is a must-read on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

BillS said:


> We're not going to have steady, consistent 10% inflation. We're going to see hyperinflation very soon. Hyperinflation is when you have extremely high rates of inflation and large increases in the velocity of money.
> 
> This is a must-read on the subject:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation


As heard on Fox Business Channel Thursday, Velocity of money is the slowest it's been in our history. Just for were info.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Tweto said:


> As heard on Fox Business Channel Thursday, Velocity of money is the slowest it's been in our history. Just for were info.


It's the slow velocity of money that's keeping the dollar as high as it is. Somewhere along the line there will be a loss in confidence in the dollar. It could be triggered by another round of QE or a ratings downgrade of our debt or war with China over Iran or Syria. The result will be panic selling of the dollar.
When it starts the dollar could lose an enormous amount of its value in a relatively short time.

This is one scenario from youtube:


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Video was very good. The collapse could easily happen that way.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Another video on the subject, but with added footage of Rep. Paul Jankorshi telling about what ACTUALLY happened in 2008:





We came VERY close to collapse in 2008, and they have NOT fxed anything since then, but only papered over the problems. This thing could fly apart at the drop of a hat.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

YES this could happen.

FYI the movie is "Rollover" 1981


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I truly hope it holds together until 2036, or whatever somebody said. I would be age 90 and not give 2 hoots about it. As it is, I'm in the worst possible age group and I don't think they can hold it together nearly that long.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

"I truly hope it holds together until 2036, or whatever somebody said. I would be age 90 and not give 2 hoots about it. As it is, I'm in the worst possible age group and I don't think they can hold it together nearly that long. "

I think many here are in that same boat. We are old enough to realize just how bad our lives will be. I know some of the younger ones are thinking it might be "cool". That thought will change fast!


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

the trouble is not inflation itself, but what is being hit. with "normal" inflation interest goes up. those with a little money saved will earn a few dollars more. jobs generally pay a little more. when inflation hits just one area such as food or medicine, and only certain things go up in price, with saved money not getting interest and salaries not goes up, we lose. when only the cost of living goes up, people don't have anything left to spend, they become despondent. I get SS disability, and guess what, the insurance prices go up so I have less and less to spend. I was "good". I saved money while working, paid my house off early, kept good credit, provided for my future, lived well within my means, now even with insurance, just MY meds run over a 1000.00 a month, my dh's run around 800.00. he has no insurance. to get it he would have to pay 900.00 or more plus the deductable of about 2500.00 and still pay 20% or more for treatment and meds. just medicial would run us at least 2000.00 a month. who can afford that? now add rent, food, utilities, taxes, car and gas.......... not that long ago I would go to a doc and it would cost me 50.00 to see him. now that same visit costs about 150.00 depending on the doc. it seems to be the food and medical prices that hurt us the most. those areas need to fixed some how. the big question is just how to fix them?


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Well with Obamacare you will now have to have insurance, which will be charged to you before tax exemptions of 2.5% of the gross income or $650 which ever is higher. That is if this Tax remains a law.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

The medical field is the hardest hit when it comes to inflation because it's the area with the most government involvement.

One of the big culprits is declining government payments to doctors and hospitals for medicare and medicaid patients. Doctors and hospitals raise the costs of everyone else to cover the patients that they lose money on. Besides the fact that they have to treat everyone. Even those who can't pay. A lot of emergency room hospitals have had to close because of all the drug dealers who come in all shot up, are uninsured, and require $100,000 to treat.

One of the other big problems is malpractice insurance. Doctors can be sued for all kinds of things. In most countries lawyers are paid a flat fee for lawsuits. It's actually illegal for them to be paid a portion of the settlement. In America they get a percentage of the award. That encourages unscrupulous lawyers to for the most money by any means necessary.

But don't worry. Obamacame is going to fix all that! You'll be able to keep your doctor! Despite covering the uninsured, the cost you pay will go down! You'll even get treatment that you couldn't get before! Actually, none of that is true. Medical care will be rationed. We're already seeing in some states that medicare and medicaid patients have limits in how many medications they can be on at one time. And of course you can forget ever getting a hip or knee replacement if you're overweight like I am. It's going to be a nightmare.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

BillS said:


> One of the big culprits is declining government payments to doctors and hospitals for medicare and medicaid patients.


Yep. I've heard several doctors say that if Obamacare goes into effect, they will quit taking Medicare or Medicaid patients at all. Some have even said they would not take any insurance at all & instead become a cash only business which would allow them to decrease their staff & headaches significantly. We'll end up with care that's as free as air but it'll take 9 months to get an appointment with the doctor. :gaah:

Free ER visits for everyone? Sounds wonderful but has anyone noticed the kinds of hospitals being built as of late? Yep. Cancer hospitals, spine hospitals, etc. These hospitals that aren't general hospitals don't have to have an ER & so have none of the costs associated with having to provide free care. Think the wait in the ER is bad now, wait a few years.



BillS said:


> One of the other big problems is malpractice insurance. Doctors can be sued for all kinds of things. In most countries lawyers are paid a flat fee for lawsuits. It's actually illegal for them to be paid a portion of the settlement. In America they get a percentage of the award. That encourages unscrupulous lawyers to for the most money by any means necessary.


Yep. If the loser had to pay the legal fees a lot of BS lawsuits would stop as well.



BillS said:


> But don't worry. Obamacame is going to fix all that! You'll be able to keep your doctor! Despite covering the uninsured, the cost you pay will go down! You'll even get treatment that you couldn't get before! Actually, none of that is true. Medical care will be rationed. We're already seeing in some states that medicare and medicaid patients have limits in how many medications they can be on at one time. And of course you can forget ever getting a hip or knee replacement if you're overweight like I am. It's going to be a nightmare.


Yep. The govt will cut what is covered with Medicare/Medicaid. Insurance companies largely take their cues from those programs as well so we'll all get less healthcare. The inability to find a doctor that takes Medicare/Medicaid or insurance at all will limit care significantly. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the end result of all this is we end up paying for our useless insurance policy that we can't get in to see a doctor with & having to pay out of pocket for the care we need or do without. We'll end up with some folks not being able to afford the care they need. Wait a minute, wasn't that what Obamacare was supposed to fix? :scratch

Anybody got anything else they want government to FUBAR, oops! I mean "fix".


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