# Things To Be Learned From Egypt



## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

*10 Things That The Egypt Riots Can Teach Us About What Happens When Society Breaks Down*

The rioting in Egypt is perhaps the biggest single news story so far in 2011. The pace at which Egyptian society has been transformed over the past week has been absolutely breathtaking. A few months ago, nobody would have ever dreamed that there would be huge riots in the streets of major Egyptian cities calling for the resignation of Hosni Mubarak. But it has happened, and now Egypt will never be the same again. So what does the future hold for Egypt?
...So far more than 100 people have died during the rioting that has rocked Egypt over the past week. Other reports put the true number of dead much higher. Scores of shops and businesses have been looted. There have been dozens of rapes. Groups of citizens have formed vigilante groups to protect their own homes. These are the kinds of things that happen when society breaks down.

But could such a thing happen in the United States? Of course it could. Just remember what happened in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. Imagine what would happen in this country if a disaster on an even larger scale happened. Would any of us be truly safe?

Unfortunately many Americans will never start to prepare until it is far too late.
But for the rest of us that are willing to learn, there are some things that have happened during these Egypt riots that are important lessons for all of us&#8230;.

*#1* When society breaks down, people look for whatever weapons they can find. Over this past week, abandoned police stations throughout Egypt have been stripped of their arsenals by looters.

*#2* When society breaks down, nobody is safe. Average Egyptians "armed with sticks and razors" have formed vigilante groups to protect their homes from the crazed looters that have emerged during the rioting.

*#3* When society breaks down, you better protect your women and children. At least 60 rapes have been officially reported since the rioting began. The unofficial number is surely far higher than that.

*#4* When society breaks down, criminals do not fear the law. There are reports that at least 4 prisons have been attacked and that thousands of convicts have escaped into the streets.

*#5* When society breaks down, authoritarian governments begin hoarding food. The Telegraph is reporting that governments throughout the Middle East and North Africa have started stockpiling huge amounts of food in response to all the rioting that has been going on.

*#6* When society breaks down, food shortages can happen shockingly fast. As commerce has been brought to a standstill in Egypt, serious shortages of some of the most important basic food staples are starting to be reported. Many families in Egypt only have enough food to be able to survive for a couple more days.

*#7* When society breaks down, respect for personal property goes out the window. All over Egypt shops and businesses are being broken into and totally looted.

*#8 *When society breaks down, mobs will start doing some of the most stupid things imaginable. According to Egypt's top archaeologist, Zahi Hawass, looters broke into the Egyptian Museum during the rioting "and destroyed two pharaonic mummies".

*#9* When society breaks down, it always creates a "power void". The Obama administration is calling for an "orderly transition of power" in Egypt, but there is absolutely no guarantee that is going to happen - especially in a nation that has no history of legitimate democracy.

*#10* When society breaks down, often outside influences are involved. The individual being touted as the new "leader" of the protest movement in Egypt is Mohamed ElBaradei.

Read the rest of the article here.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Excellent post. Thanks Uncle Joe.


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

*Time To Revisit My Arsenal*

This article made me realize that I need to check my arsenal. It's a good time to re-clean and lubricate my weapons. It's a good time to look over my supply of ammunition and consider adding a little bit more. It's a good time to consider more passive methods of home defense and check out my fences, doors, door locks, etc. Time to repair any of the above that need it, and to get things done that I "haven't had the time for". :hmmm:

Thanks, UncleJoe. :beercheer:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*one thing left out*

The one thing left out was , They always empty out the prisons!
In every country in the world when there was a Revolution, the prisons are emptied out
This happened in Egypt yesterday.
That may sound good to people who think they are just freeing innocent people, kept there by despots, but they in reality, they allow the most violent people in there society, to run free with no law to stop them.
It would happen here too, and it wouldn't be the first time!
If they have had 60 reported rapes in a Muslim country,and only 1 in 10 are reported here, 
how many non-reported rapes, have there been in Egypt ?


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## Ron22 (Oct 30, 2009)

Interestingly the Egyptian military said they would not fire on protesters. Hope if it comes to that our own military will take the same position... I'm sure many of them would also refuse to fire on civilians... sadly I fear that a few of them won't.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

Ron22 said:


> Interestingly the Egyptian military said they would not fire on protesters. Hope if it comes to that our own military will take the same position... I'm sure many of them would also refuse to fire on civilians... sadly I fear that a few of them won't.


I have to agree with you.
Most military people will not fire on civilians and I don't believe most officers would order them to.
There have been and will be exceptions.
Kent State comes to mind.
I have limited my range time because I don't want to use up my ammo in case something like this happens here.
I'm NOT talking about trying to hold off the Army, that would be suicide, just the rioters.
Thank you for serving Ron22.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

#8 - Mummies.

Heard that most of the museum and mummy looting was for the gold.


I'd add in 

#11 Complete collapse of communications. Internet, cellular, etc. all taken out by the government. Either to prevent internal coordination or external broadcast of the happenings.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Ron22 said:


> Interestingly the Egyptian military said they would not fire on protesters. Hope if it comes to that our own military will take the same position... I'm sure many of them would also refuse to fire on civilians... sadly I fear that a few of them won't.


I will add this again...how many members of our LEO, military, reserves, sheriffs dept., deputies don't have sisters, mothers, brothers, fathers, children??

Unless they are really into zombieism, or are robots...or are brain-dead, they WILL think of these things when ordered to jail or fire on their own.

Of this I pray.:crossfinger:


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

JayJay said:


> I will add this again...how many members of our LEO, military, reserves, sheriffs dept., deputies don't have sisters, mothers, brothers, fathers, children??
> 
> Unless they are really into zombieism, or are robots...or are brain-dead, they WILL think of these things when ordered to jail or fire on their own.
> 
> Of this I pray.:crossfinger:


Thats what the brownshirts are for


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

lexsurivor said:


> Thats what the brownshirts are for


Maybe so--by the way--Hi Lexington!!


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I think there will be a certain % of troops who wouldnt fire upon american citizens but I remember reading somewhere a couple yrs ago..that the government of the US and Canada have planned for this..something like Canada sends troops here and vice versa..if social breakdown on a large scale occurs..wish I could remember it but I cant


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I think our government has about every base covered when it comes to dealing with the great "unwashed"..when they feel the time is right for them.


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

JayJay said:


> Maybe so--by the way--Hi Lexington!!


Hi! Is Russelville by any chance near Rockcastle county?


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

the most important thing is don't let anyone take your guns or when the SHsTF, you'll be out in the streets like them--empty handed and at the militaries mercey.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

_lotsoflead_, that is so true, we need to keep fighting to keep all our freedoms, not just the guns, but the guns may be the last thing we have to fight with. :dunno: If the people don't wake up and start using the power we have in voting.

Ron22 that is true, the Egyptian and Tunisian troops vowed not to fire on the people. Much to their credit. :wave:

However, there have been instances in US history where troops fired on US citizens during riots. One such instance was after WWI when veterans camped in Washinton DC and US troops routed them. Good ol' McArthur and Patton were part of the contingent that routed the veterans. And that is just one occassion.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

as much as I hate to say it, it might come to using the 2nd ammendment to protect the other nine


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> as much as I hate to say it, it might come to using the 2nd ammendment to protect the other nine


It always has Blob, it always has. :beercheer:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

If you guys caught the news last night or this morning, you must have seen the story about 76yr old Mary Thornberry an American trapped in Egypt. She didn't want to leave her things or her home. Now by herself she is trying to defend herself with a knife, hot water and I think she said a walking stick against thugs who have tried to break in to her apartment. The US Embssy & the police said there is nothing they can do as her apartment is in the square where most of the violence is taking place. This could be one of us in the near future here in the States. Remember the things you love are not really things. Plan to be safe.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

Clarice said:


> If you guys caught the news last night or this morning, you must have seen the story about 76yr old Mary Thornberry an American trapped in Egypt. She didn't want to leave her things or her home. Now by herself she is trying to defend herself . . .. Remember the things you love are not really things. Plan to be safe.


So true, what material things do any of us have that is worth sacrificing our lives for. :dunno:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I forgot to mention, last night as we were watching the news from Cario, half of the screen went black with muslim writing in white, it stayed that way until they broke for commercial and when they came back there was a black ticker tape with white muslim writing going across the bottom of the screen. Did anyone else see this? Was this way for someone to get their message to their friends here in the US?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Wow, that's scary, about the ticker-tape. Hopefully our intelligence people can translate it and get some idea if there's a hidden message in it. Sounds like it could have been a signal to someone, somewhere, possible in the US.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Clarice...that can only happen here AFTER they remove the 2nd amendment.

That's what 12 guage, HMR 17, .32, and .22 Magnum told me after they took a vote!!:ignore:


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

...I need to re-check my arsenal...


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

If I were one to hoard ammo, I would probably be checking stockpiles as well.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

My Middle Eastern view to Egypt's situation is that riot and violence is caused by Mobarak (security police) who opened jsails and let loose thugs and violent criminals for several purposes. One to mix things up, defame the civilized, PEACEFUL protestors, and convince the military to act a bit harder. 

From what I have seen so far, the protestors are prepared with their own security groups, trying to protect the museuum and keep the square as peaceful as possible. 

Yesterday ( Middle Eastern time ) was a strange view when pro-Mobarak groups came in the Tahreer ( Liberation) Square riding camels and horses!! Seems they wanted to spread panic and chaos among the crowd, but that failed and the crowd remianed relatively calm. 

The crowd in the square organized themselves in committees for food, medical ..etc. There is a field hospital with volunteer doctors ..etc. and one doctor was interviewed and siad they didn't want omore volunteers but needed more medical supplies. From types of injuries among the victims, it is apparent there are snipers with night vision equipment all around the square. 

Very ineteresting piece of news that 2 people (Israelis) were captured bringing a truckload of food to the crowd in the square, and that food was posioned. Aside from the accuracy and details of the story, it raises many questions about the odds and possibilities that a group (oragnized and prepared as they are ) can face in times like this. 

These protestors are not going to be loved by US administration, nor israel , US-friendly Arab countries like Jordan, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, and others. Sometimes in chaotic times like this some of those outsiders commit stupid mistakes... One of them the U.S. ambassador met witrh Mohammad El-Baradie. That alone will kill much of his luck in getting anywhere. Egyptians do NOT like many of the U.S. foreign policies, and many times have protested AGAINST receiving aid from the U.S. ( that aid is only welcomed by dictator and their narrow circle of ultra corrupt politicians) .. now Baradie is receiving negative comments in TV stations around here. He is seen as another 'U.S. toy' not to be truetd for leadership in Egypt. 

This is a country that is very proud of herself and mobarak made them into a nation of beggars. They are really pissed off. In my view, the U.S. has to deal with the situation very sensibly. They can still have a good relation with new leadership, but they can still screw things if they handle it wrongly .. which I expect it to be the case. 

Many Egyptains see Americans as trying to run Egypt from the White House; telling Egypt what to do and what not to do. If someone in Washington DC is interested to change that impression, they should watch other countries and learn a bit. Japan , India, and China for example will do same business with Egypt whether Mobark ruling Egypt or outside Egypt. That way you always win.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

The question of food and water presents itself in the Egyptian situation in some unconventional ways. 

I mentioned above that 2 guys have been captured and said to be providing food for the protestors ( like several nearby restaurants and cafe's have done ) and that food was found to be poisoned. 

Also, a few years back you all remember the Rwanda / Burundi massacres that led to throwing countless corpses in the Nile, and health questions were raised in Egypt. 

Many times I read about Bullets , Bandaids, and Beans for the prepared. But honestly I think none of that can help you if you have a problem like that in the available food and water. 

You get your water from a stream, chlorine tablet will kill germs but cannot kill bad (toxic) chemicals. If your food is delibrately contaminated with toxic stuff, you will have a tough time cleaning it. Survival will take a different meaning then.

Distillation will purify water from many chemicals , but still not guranteed, and it needs lot and lots of energy. Maybe a solar-based distiller is necessary in such case.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I was hoping you would stop in and give us a perspective from a neighboring country. Thank you. Is any of this spilling over into your lives in Saudi Arabia. We never know if we are getting the whole story on this side of the world since our media is somewhat controlled.


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## 41south (Dec 4, 2010)

Check out Al Jazeera, yes it is slanted, but what news isn't? Look at whats happening in Egypt, Jordan, Algeria, Yemen, Tunisia, and other countries in the Mid East and North Africa. Political discontent and revolutions seem to me, to spread to other countries and then across continents, maybe even oceans in todays information age. 

What will happen here if gas goes above $5 or is not even available.

As I told my Lady friend earlier this week, you see whats happening in Egypt on TV? That show is coming soon to a neighborhood near you.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

Sinbad, Looks to me like there is a lot of misinformation you are receiving, or spreading. It is apparent you have a strong bias.

I find it all very unbelievable.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

Yes vn6869 , I am biased against Mobarak
I understand that the U.S. and Israel wanted to keep these dictators to (a) keep cusring him ( while winking towards him and paying him $$$) and show that they are the godfathers of democracy and that NO denmocracy exists oustside the U.S. and Israel borders and (b) these dictators and their thugs are the tools that the U.S. and Israel implement their policies in teh Middle East

I have said and will repeat that such dictators have DESTTROYED the economy of their countries for the sake of Israel, and for payment from teh U.S. that fills their accounts. Take for example , Egyptain agricultutre where Egypt went from wheat and cotton self sufficiency ( if not export) to importing such comodities, 

Gas is such a blatant example. 
Mobarak sells Egyptain gas to Israel UNDER the international price, and his own people are not finding enough gas for their own cooking and heating. 

You know. In every story there is always two sides and you are right. Al-Jazeera has its own agenda. But Mobarak is no angel by any means ... I have given it a lot of thought a few days ago: who could be telling the truth and who is lying ?? Mobarak closed the Al-Jazeera office .. OK , maybe Al-Jazeera was ( flaring things up ) as Mobarak's police said.. How about closing the Egyptian internet system and cell phone system ?? Are they controlled by Al-Jazeera too ??? 

Plus WE know Mobarak ourselves for 30 years now, and we do not need Al-Jazeera or anyone else to educate us about him and his police. I can go forever giving examples of someone selling his nation in exchange for money. In those years we have been seeing these examples, People outsdie the region were only concerned with terrorism and such .. and only boasting that Israel is the only 'democracy' in this region. 

It still amazes me that someone is a filthy dictator , but when someone wants to remove him, that someone is questionable.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

> I was hoping you would stop in and give us a perspective from a neighboring country. Thank you. Is any of this spilling over into your lives in Saudi Arabia. We never know if we are getting the whole story on this side of the world since our media is somewhat controlled.


Hi and thanks

It is no secret that there is no single source of info that can be assumed 'neutral'. We have tons of TV stations including Arabic broadcasts from Iran, France, Russia, China .. and the U.S. Congress TV station ( Al-Horrah ) that translates to : Free TV.

There are also additional TV stations that have been established by the Saudis , Egyptains, and others . I do not mean their national TVs but additional regional TVs that serve someone's agenda.

So, the TVs we see are international , including off course the Arabic and English BBC, CNN .. you name it.

Each and everyone of these has a different angle to look at things , and we have to seive through most of the garbage to get thru and find something worth anything.

In the U.S. Al-Jazeera is a celbrity LOL ... But maybe you don't know that another TV called ( Arabyya ) funded by the Saudi's and is the exact opposite of Al-Jazeera. In the Tunisia and Egypt events, Al-Jazeera was accused of fanning the flames, but I also can accuse the Al-Arabyya of pouring cold water on the news and almost claiming that demonstartions did not exist in the first few days !!!

Arabyya tried to mask the demonstartions for as long as possible, and then had to admit them but after twisting as many facts as they could. How do we know they would twist things in favor of Mobarak ( or anyone who is pro-USA) ?? Because we know it for YEARS, not only since the last few weeks.

We, average folks in the region, look at both opposing TV stations and use each one as a checking meter against the other. If one becomes too much biased, it will show.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

The question of spilling to other countries is not a simple question to answer 

If someone twisted my arm and forced me to give a one-word answer , I would choose : No. It won't spill to coutries like Saudi Arabia. 

From so many 1000 miles away, you may look at us (Arabs/Muslims) as the same or very similar, but it is not really so. There are cultural differences just like Americans and Europeans are all Christians but they are different in their own ways. 

Egypt once was seen as a beacon in the Arab world. Egypt has seen a printing and publishing era and Egyptain books has sent waves of renaissance through many Arab youths in part of the last century. Many intellectuals from Lebanon, Iraq, and most other Arab countries saw Egypt as the craddle of modern knowledge for them. Even when actrors and actresses from Syria and Lebanon tried to climb the ladder of fame they went to Egypt where they showed in movies and became well known all over the Arab world. 

This same Egypt was received by self-worshipping leadership and purposely converted the country to a miserable place to live. Scientists fled to the West , Engineers migrated to oil rich countries to make some living. And only dancers and other entertainment people had any form of comfortable living there. One joke that showed the miserable situations says a professor was in line waiting for hius turn to cxash a check he received after participating in a scientific forum. In front of him was a female belly dancer, and he accidently saw the check she was cashing. He couldn't but express his shock at the difference between their checks. She told him ( instead of envying me why don't YOU work as a belly dancer) !!!

A few years back I subscribed to an Egyptain magzine called Al-Ilm ( Science) 
I was reading one of its issues when Halley meteor was near Earth. Those times most everyone was talking about it ( it may have been on the covers of Time & Newsweek). Science journalist from Al-Ilm magainze travelled to teh Egyptain Observatory to interview sceintists and have a chat and hopefully some picture from their obsevatory to proudly post on the cover ... 

They were first shocked by the bad condition of the road which needed a military vehicle to negotiate. When they reached there it was a big shock to see helpless sceintist with broken equipment. Those scisntists said that most of government funds went towards Alexandria Opera House , and almost nothing came to such establishments as the observatory. 

Mobarak made sure to destroy Egyptian agriculture , industry, trade and sell most things to Israel .. when some youth asked for tax break to help their starting tiny companies of information technology ( computer and programming and such ) to be competitive around the world, his trade ministry refused to lower the taxes and refused to lower their elctrical power tarrifs. You know what that means to college graduates who cannot find work, and cannot establish their own businesses. 

You can be sure most of those angry scientists and entrepreneurs are now in the Tahreer (Liberation ) Square. 

Just for a reminder , it was a Tunisian college graduate who started all this. He found no job as a graduate. He swallowed his frustration and worked as a vegetable salesman. A policeman tried to confiscate his stuff for lack of permit or whatever 'regulatory' excuse. After a few angry words the policeman spit at the college graduate . He couldn't take it anymore .. He burnt himself in front of a government building ( parliment or municipality ?? I don't remember now ). 

While thing flares up and goes on from there .


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

Sorry for going on that long on the Egyptian part , but I meant that Mobarak has stabbed the pride of the Egyptains who could not take it any longer. 

About spilling, I am not even sure protestors are capable of removing Mobarak because ( despite Obama's words) I am not totally sure they are not trying to save him behind all curtains. At least they may try to save him until they find a substitute who could continmue same services. 

Revolutioanries have been cheated many times through history. The Iranians for example have removed the Shah in 1953 and got a NATIONAL government with no religious role. But the CIA removed that national gov and returned the Shah. The Iranians were pissed off and never forgot what the CIA did to them. Now as we know, their next revolutiuon in 1979 was an Islamic one. 

So, Obama may be buying time for mobarak and others to go around the revolution or protests till they find a way or till it runs out of steam. 

I do hope for a new gov in Egypt that is democratic and nationalistic . It should put EGYPT first. Not Israel , and not the USA. Its bsuinesses and trade and development should focus towards improving living standards of the average Egyptians and spare no effort in doing so. 

I hope the USA can become a bit reasonbale and sensible and focus on BUSINESS as a partnership tool, and definitely stop its hypocracy in the field of human rights. The USA should focus on promoting great trade ties with Egypt and everyone else , and leave Egypt for the Egyptains to run in tehir own way.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

By the way

Today there were news about the gas pipeline ( exporting gas from Egypt to Israel ) was blown up. Egyptain gov shamelessly announced they 'stopped' gas flowing to Israel. Did I mention their whoile story ?? They sold gas to Israel UNDER international price and average Egyptian citizen were suffering high price of gas within Egypt !!! Mobarak refused to stop the export to Israel no matter what !! 

A few months ago , Israel had a surplus of gas and the Egyptain gov BOUGHT their own gas back from Isarel at the int'l price giving Israel a direct profit .. That pissed off the Egyptians big time. That money could have been paid to subsidize gas prices within Egypt itself !!

Now that the pipeline is blown up , Egyptain government has no choice but sell all gas within Egypt , except maybe if they want to punish its own populatiuon, that is another thing. 

So, what would you guys think if Obama sold your Texas oil at $ 50 a barrel to Russia , and bought it back at $ 100 a barrel. I don't think anyone of you would love that .. huh ?? 

ummm . Maybe if he gave it FREE to Israel , and got it back at $ 200 , some of you would applaud him.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

yep, some would


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

vn6869, LOL 


in continuation of the above ... 
The tremors of Tunisia and Egypt are not without some comic effects , at least in our view. Yemeni president announced that it was 'absured' to talk about any extension of his presidency or his son as next president. That was hilarious , becuase it HE himself who announced that a few weeks earlier. 

We joke about him not enjoying his honeymoon of eternal presidency for long enough. Seeing what has happend in Tunisia & Egypt has scared him too much LOL 

Jordan and other countries issued a few cosmetic changes in their cabinet memberships. And most leaders nowadays are talking about 'citizens'. We 'citizens' have been remembered at last !! LOL 

BTW, It is very interesting how JOKES play a big role in relaxing people in tense times. Egyptians are champions in this regards , facing harsh life with a quick joke and a smile. We are picking up the habbit too. I wouldn't role it out as a helpful skill for mental survival.

I have watched Lebanese protests maybe two years back when pro-Hezbollah opposition took to the street and camped out for a bout a year or so. They had similar slogans and raised banners. But i find the Egyptain protestors still maintaining their sense of 'humor' . You just can't stop yourself from laughing or smiling when you read their banners. 

In our newly found comedy on Facebook and other websites, one of our Anti-Mobark guys says : I got it !!! Send Dr. Rabiea ( Saudi surgeon well known for separating Siamese twins) to separate Mobarak from his throne. LOL


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

sinbad said:


> In our newly found comedy on Facebook and other websites, one of our Anti-Mobark guys says : I got it !!! Send Dr. Rabiea ( Saudi surgeon well known for separating Siamese twins) to separate Mobarak from his throne. LOL


Does Dr. Rabiea do (white) house calls?

We could benefit from some of your advanced science-we just sit around here having Tea parties all day long.....


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

sinbad said:


> I hope the USA can... leave Egypt for the Egyptians to run in their own way.


There was a news clip on CNN a few hours ago with Hillary Clinton (the US Secretary of State) proclaiming how Egypt should handle things. :gaah:

If someone from China tried to tell her how to handle the affairs of the US, she would tell them to take a long walk off a short pier. Why does the US government feel the need to control the rest of the world?  :dunno:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Deteriation*

The protesters have deteriorated into an unruley mob.

They are out of food and water is in short supply.

It will be instructional to see how long it takes for them to completely abandon the politics and just go on the hunt for food.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Why does the US government feel the need to control the rest of the world? 


Could it be because they failed so miserably with theirs??


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

Have you noticed when we don't stick our noses in other people's business, the U.S. is criticized for not being involved? You're damned if you do, damned if you don't...


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

> The protesters have deteriorated into an unruley mob.
> 
> They are out of food and water is in short supply.
> 
> It will be instructional to see how long it takes for them to completely abandon the politics and just go on the hunt for food.


From my angle, I am seeing the Mobarak police is using thugs to mess things up and defame the uprising while the protestors in the square are trying to keep things calm.

Today ( Sunday) A christian service took place in the square. On Friday there was an Islamic prayer , with CDhristians present. Today it was a Christian service followed by Muslim prayer.

Interesting for westerners : Ahmad Izz from the Al-Wafd party stated that the coming governmnent will be democratic, not Islamic. 
End of statement

Off course, Muslim Brotherhood and other Islamic groups can make their own parties and run for seats in the parliment like everyone else.

That is what we expected a few years earlier in Algeria, but someone somewhere didn't like Islamists doing democratic politics and they were thrown out of the political game. The result is ( as we have seen ) when you throw out the moderates who play by the rules, you open the gates for fanatics who have no rules.

>>>>

Just now, I am hearing this :

Hibah Kayyat , a female Egyptain law activist, is speaking on TV and said that EVERY EGYPTAIN is welcome to come and pray in the Square including Egyptain Jews and Christians. She said this revolution is for all Egyptians.

In my book, this is a very good sign.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

> You're damned if you do, damned if you don't...


You are a superpower .. Remember ??

You just tell everyone ( we have enough problems .. so we fix our problems and you fix yours !!)

And please, tell others ( incluing Arab countries and Israel ) WE DO NOT HAVE EXCESS MONEY ANYOMRE. WE HAVE SCATTERED ENOUGH DOLLARS AND WHATEVER WE HAVE NOW IS FOR AMERICANS ONLY !!!

Edited to add:

Our king Abdulla was courageous enough to say the same to Pakistan filthiest politician , and president, Asif Zardari. The financial crisis hit Pakistan like others and he came to Saudi Arabia asking for 'aid' . I was so happy that the king knew what kind of person he was and diplomatically refused.

So, someone tell Mr. Obama : 
Take a deep breath and tell others : we ain't got anyomre money . 
You can do it !


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

> Why does the US government feel the need to control the rest of the world?
> Could it be because they failed so miserably with theirs??


You got it !

But it is not only the U.S. This is what many politicians around the world do when they fail with their own people. Many Arab dictators misused Palestine problem to justify the failure of education, health, agriculture, and industrial systems in their countries. They didn't help Palestininas , but pretended to be doing so to gain some fake glory and to justify their lack of attention towards their own countries.

Even turning attention away from Palestine was misued. Former Egypt president who signed 'peace' treaty with Israel, told Egyptains that Egypt will save massive money to be directed to education, health, and general prosperity. But after so many years of (no war) with Israel, Egypt still kept going downhill. Military spending was reduced, and money was saved alright, but it was siphoned into private accounts.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

sinbad = . . . . .:spam:

JMHO


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

*Christian Families Murdered in Egypt*

Christian Families Murdered in Egypt - Latest Update
Posted by Kathleen Gose on February 4, 2011 at 9:04pm in Tea Party Nation Forum

Tea Party Nation source in Egypt commented on this horrible event. 
"The present word on the streets in the Islamic world and Middle East is that no Islamic country will trust the US while Obama is in power and many are considering releasing intelligence concerning Obama to damage his regime. A family of Coptic Christian I knew, Joseph, his wife Shama, his 15 year old daughter and 8 year old son, as well as 8 others were dragged from their homes and murdered by Obama's "peaceful protesters". Their "peaceful Muslim neighbors" are guilty of their blood. 

*The call by the left to "cleanse" the land of Egypt means to kill all Christians and Jews in the land*. It's going to get very much worse in Egypt. We on the other hand are ready for anything they want to bring. I can assure you, they will lose this battle against Israel, they will lose horribly and pay a price they cannot afford.

source for news report above: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/muslims-attack-christian-families...


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

There are radical groups in every culture and religion.

From the christian bible, KJV:

Deuteronomy 17
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

"Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants". (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)

"You must kill those who worship another god". Exodus 22:20

"Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own". Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Then there is this upstanding organization. 
Army of God

And this one. Westboro Baptist Church Home Page

And don't forget to look back to the crusades where compliance to Christian teachings was enforced at the point of a sword.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

*Uncle Joe*, right now the immediate threat is to non-Islamics for this country and the world. You point is not without merit, but not to the point as how the egyptian riots are being portraid by some as "peaceful" and non-religious.


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## Ron22 (Oct 30, 2009)

backlash said:


> I have to agree with you.
> Most military people will not fire on civilians and I don't believe most officers would order them to.
> There have been and will be exceptions.
> Kent State comes to mind.
> ...


Thanks  I'm really looking forward to retirement this year 

Kent State was poorly trained troops who were not equipped to deal with the situation. All National Guard troops receive riot control training now. Active duty troops do also depending on their job. If push comes to shove I can see active duty troops being used to maintain order, Posse Comitaus or not. Congress can change that law in an emergency and I believe its possible that they would, allowing military to be used in a law enforcement capacity.

Things like rules of engagement and use of force or things the military are trained on and have constantly re-enforced. I believe that almost without exception that troops will not fire in a riot situation unless they feel their lives are in danger even if they were ordered to do so (unlikely).


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

vn

Maybe if i was in your place ( the US) I would have said the same because of availble TV. But from my view and angle Tahrir Square crowd is trying very hard to keep things PEACEFUL . They are accusing Egyptain gov of opening jails and paying thugs to do mischief. 

Actually Mobarak used the western fears of the Islamists to justify his dictatorship saying that if he leaves then Muslim Brotherhood (MB) will takeover !!! He needs to explain then why he has asked MB for talks these days. 

Another point
I have read in twitter, seen in TV that chirstians are praying in the square and Muslims praying too, plus heard calls on TV that the uprising is for all egyptains of all faiths. 

One of the components of this uprising is KEFAYA ( Enough! ) movement whose chairman is called ( George Isaac ) I assume is christian. ALL opposition is represented in this uprising and MB is NOT capable of taking power alone. 

Please vn6869 think about this rationally 
If MB wants to win seats is it for their advatage or disadvatage to kill christians these days ??? Even if they were evil as you think, they are not dumb as to give Mobarak justification and "proof" that if he goes, chirstians will be in danger. It is more logical that Mobarak, or Israel are paying someone to blow up churches to show the world that Mobarak is needed to keep "Islamists" at bay and keep christians in peace.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

Pictures from Tahrir (Liberation ) Square

A couple got married in the square










Here's something to read about it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/wor...e-10-day-demonstration.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

About the camels and horses that entered the square some days before ... it is very obvious that Mobarak wanted to stir things and show the uprising was making chaos in country. Those camels and horses did not belong to protestors, rather they were meant to scare them and distrurb the orderly scence.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

Some of the comedy that is circulated about the events

Obama : I think you should write a goodbye letter to the Egyptain people

Mobarak : Why ??? Where are THEY going ??


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

This banner summarizes the people's view why Mobarak has to leave
It is a 'student' certificate showing Mobarak is a total failure

Student Name : Hosni Mobarak

Economy : zero
Education : zero
Health : zero
Industry : zero
Agriculture : zero

Etc ...

Total : FAILURE


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

All uncle joe said is true....good post!..makes me wonder if we would stand up to our government the way these ppl do when & if the time comes..all they have gone through so far and the rising death toll and they still are at it..risking life and limb for their beliefs...I think if our govt called for our guns..a suprisingly number would just do as they are told and hand them in...in order to keep their huge plasma tv and other comforts..so ask yourself....have I all got what it takes to "walk like an Egyptian"


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

> From my angle, I am seeing the Mobarak police is using thugs to mess things up and defame the uprising while the protestors in the square are trying to keep things calm.


Sounds like the liberals and the Tea Party protests in the USA.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

sinbad said:


> Please vn6869 think about this rationally
> If MB wants to win seats is it for their advatage or disadvatage to kill christians these days ??? Even if they were evil as you think, they are not dumb as to give Mobarak justification and "proof" that if he goes, chirstians will be in danger. It is more logical that Mobarak, or Israel are paying someone to blow up churches to show the world that Mobarak is needed to keep "Islamists" at bay and keep christians in peace.


looks like the US doesn't have a monopoly on conspiracy theorists 

don't they teach the theory of Occam's Razor anymore?
"Frustra fit per plura quod potest fieri per pauciora"
("Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.")

"We are to admit no more causes of things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances." Isaac newton

One must use the simplest means of arriving at their results and exclude everything not perceived by the senses.

Mubarak appears to be a vicious, greedy fartknocker... yet none of the alternatives appear any better.


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

Here's a random fact I learned today about America and Egypt:

Time magazine reports in this weeks issue titled "REVOLUTION!" on page 35 that America gives 3.5 million dollars EVERYDAY to Egypt's military and also gives them F-16 fighter jets as well as M-1 tanks. 

That is $1.27 billion a year!!


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## IrritatedWithUS (Jan 9, 2011)

Just announced on the news at 12:01 pacific time, Mobarak's swiss bank accounts has been frozen as well as his families accounts according to KGW news.

Edit: 12:09 Obama is on television for a special report. Within minutes he said he'd continue to give the military money and to increase the funding to ensure democratic voting and to ensure their safety...

Great. Funneling more money we don't have


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Thats been going on for 30 yrs....it is funny how we have to buy our friends


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

I just hope this Egyptian thing has opened the eyes of our politicians..at least put a bit of fear in their hearts..maybe they will change their ways...I know...thats a big maybe


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

You know, We were wondering why so many of our politicians have decided not to run for re-election. Do they know something we don't???????


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

..if we knew what all what was going on in our govt...we would probably not believe it or go on a prepping spree like not seen even in our collective imaginations while being totally appalled and filled with disgust at our leaders at what they have done and are doing behind our backs..how do we expect people to look upon them with respect while their morals are as corrupt as any..their a shame to this country and our heritage ..they go unpunished when they do get caught..makes me sick and sad to say the least..ummm, what was the post about again? :gaah:


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

> That is $1.27 billion a year!!


I told you !!!!
And that is Egypt only. Check Jordan too !!

All this money, and more, is supposedly dedicated to "protect the flanks of Israel".


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

*Follow the money...*



sinbad said:


> So, what would you guys think if Obama sold your Texas oil at $ 50 a barrel to Russia , and bought it back at $ 100 a barrel. I don't think anyone of you would love that .. huh ??


What makes you think that someone isn't doing that already? All that oil in the Gulf and off the east and west coasts and we can't drill for it! :nuts:Someone (China?) will get it and sell it to us!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

That is happening here in Alberta. We dig up the oil, we turn it into fuel, we ship it to "holding tanks" in the USA and then it comes back to Alberta at twice the price.

Our fuel (gasoline) is sold in the USA for about $0.84 / litre at the gas-stations and it is being sold in Vancouver (as of yesterday) at $1.27 / litre ... here in Calgary it is a little better at a $1.06 / litre but no-where near what it should really be!


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

*Waiting...*

I waiting for some homegrown genius working in their garage, or basement, to come up with a way to end our dependency on foreign oil, or the electric company, for that matter.

Robert Heinlein, in a short story, and Ben Bova, in "The Green Trap" both did science fiction stories about people who did this, and in both cases, they literally gave the process away due to threats on their lives by the vested interests in the energy industries. 

For a little light reading, get "The Prize" (only 1,200+ pages ) about the evolution of big oil from Drake's first well in Pennsylvania to the start of Gulf war I. There is so much money tied up in just big oil, that any method that would supplant it quickly, would cause an economic collapse that would dwarf what we are going through now. However, as people quickly incorporated the new technology into their vehicles, homes, business, etc., there would be an economic boom as the benefits of cheap energy took hold reducing the economic burden that high energy costs now impose upon us.

So, if there is any genius out there with a solution, use the internet, and forums like this one, to spread the plans! People will sing your praises and build statues to you! :2thumb:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Ending dependance*



efbjr said:


> I waiting for some homegrown genius working in their garage, or basement, to come up with a way to end our dependency on foreign oil, or the electric company, for that matter.
> 
> Robert Heinlein, in a short story, and Ben Bova, in "The Green Trap" both did science fiction stories about people who did this, and in both cases, they literally gave the process away due to threats on their lives by the vested interests in the energy industries.
> 
> ...


Ending dependance on forign oil is very simple.

Two things need to happen.

1. Ease al the restrictive enviormental regulations , so that U S Drillers can drill here rather than outside the U S.

2. The goverment needs to subsidize domestic oil at $90.00 per barrel.

We would quickly become energy independant. The president could control the price of oil on the world market by simply selling or buying our oil. This would do more to control the middle east than any single action we could take.

While we are at it , we need to be mineing coal and drilling for natural gas.

We already have the infrastructure to handle these three vast sorces of energy.

This country runs on energy. When fuel is cheap we prosper. When it is expencive, it affects the price and availability of every thing else.

:soapbox2:


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

backlash said:


> I have to agree with you.
> Most military people will not fire on civilians and I don't believe most officers would order them to.
> There have been and will be exceptions.
> Kent State comes to mind.


As usual, what we "know is true" from history is generally either not true or incomplete.

SOURCE: New light shed on Kent State killings - Washington Times

_"Before the fatal volley, the ROTC cadet told the FBI, he "heard one round, a pause, two rounds, and then the M-1s opened up."

The report continued that the cadet "stated that the first three rounds were definitely not M-1s. He said they could possibly have been a .45 caliber. &#8230; [He] further stated that he heard confirmed reports of sniper fire coming in over both the National Guard radio and the state police radio."

The cadet also told the FBI he observed demonstrators carrying baseball bats, golf clubs and improvised weapons, including pieces of steel wire cut into footlong sections, along with radios and other electronic devices "used to monitor the police and Guard wavelengths."

Separately, a female student told the FBI she "recalled hearing what she thought was [the sound of] firecrackers and then a few seconds later [she] heard noise that to her sounded like a machine gun going off, but then later thought it may have been a volley of shots from the Guard." _

Also, for the record, the "Troops" at Kent State were National Guard, not regular Army.

As can be seen from the events in Egypt, (or for that matter in Madison Wisconsin), the sheep get slaughtered while the wolves that provoke the action are smart enough not to be even sheared.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

tortminder said:


> As usual, what we "know is true" from history is generally either not true or incomplete.
> 
> SOURCE: New light shed on Kent State killings - Washington Times
> 
> ...


*GREAT POST* thanks:beercheer:


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## Cahri (Feb 18, 2011)

UncleJoe said:


> *10 Things That The Egypt Riots Can Teach Us About What Happens When Society Breaks Down*
> 
> The rioting in Egypt is perhaps the biggest single news story so far in 2011. The pace at which Egyptian society has been transformed over the past week has been absolutely breathtaking. A few months ago, nobody would have ever dreamed that there would be huge riots in the streets of major Egyptian cities calling for the resignation of Hosni Mubarak. But it has happened, and now Egypt will never be the same again. So what does the future hold for Egypt?
> ...So far more than 100 people have died during the rioting that has rocked Egypt over the past week. Other reports put the true number of dead much higher. Scores of shops and businesses have been looted. There have been dozens of rapes. Groups of citizens have formed vigilante groups to protect their own homes. These are the kinds of things that happen when society breaks down.
> ...


Great post! Anyone up on what's up in Athens? Cripes we are so in trouble as a whole society.And might I add that just because it is not on the news right now, we need to be afraid of the conflict between N and S Korea


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## astig (Mar 17, 2011)

*I like what you said and mention here*

I believe we should all learn from what had happened in Egypt because it might happened in our own countries although not of the same magnitude but of the like manner

We should be prepared always

If we are prepared we shall not fear. =)


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