# Been Thinking About



## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

As I read some of the threads here (and on some of the other forums I visit) I am always amazed at the number of cavalier Rambo-esque types I encounter - the kill em all and let God sort them out types. Now understand I am not a peacenic. I am former military, albeit not a combat vet. I made the decision long ago that I would not hesitate to take a life to protect mine and those I care about.

I am an evangelical Christian pastor and I have worked with the dying and been on scene for more than enough tragic and violent deaths to last a lifetime. I have counseled military and Leo's who have had to take someone else's life. I have worked with those who have had family member's lives taken by violence. Anyone's death, especially those who die by violence adversely affects all involved.

Does it strike anyone else as odd that so many of these Rambo-wanna be's seem to have little or no regard for life and even seem to be looking forward to taking it?

I don't doubt we have some vets on here who have take to kill someone. I don't see the same excitement to kill in them although they have proven themselves capable.

I wonder how many of those wannabes have ever even seen a dead person or had to deal with death. The same applies to all those I see running around with skulls and other death symbols on their clothing and vehicles.

Just saying is all....


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Sometimes takin a life has ta be done. It will be somethin ya live with the rest a yer life, you'll have nightmares about it, you'll relive it time an again. That be the cost a wars.

Yes, we have folk out there that thin it's gonna be great. Just what they been waitin fer. We'll be carefull what ya wish fer, ya just might get it. It seems lately that life be cheap ta folks. Death is seen so much on tv, in movies an games that people have gotten used ta it. That ain't the same as real death, but some folk don't know the difference. When I was a nipper, death came as a scary thin. Yer grandparents died an ya had ta go ta the funeral, ya lost a brother in a war that ya never got ta see much of. Death has been made easy, cheap an see it all the time. 

Sometimes I thin we need ta go back 60 er so years ago an start over.

Yup, those what have taken a life know it's value, an it's cost.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I have absolutely NO desire to take ANY PERSONS life. With that said, I still would not hesitate to do what is needed to protect myself, my loved ones and any person that needed help. If my actions prove wrong I will answer to the Boss when the time comes. I know full well that taking the life of another human is traumatic to say the least, BUT IF IT IS DO OR DIE, i CHOOSE TO DO!!!!

Obviously, we, as preppers are not the giving up type of people, most have come to the conclusion that we WILL survive, whatever situations or conditions come along. I have had some discussions with folks about what they would do if the SHTF, quite a few said they would eat a bullet or jump off a bridge instead of living in, what could be barbaric times, one of these people is a State Trooper!!! WTF? Most people want to live, whether it is to be there for their families or they are just plain afraid to die, in some the instinct to survive and thrive is stronger than in others. And they/we/I/you, will do what it takes.


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## taylort5 (Nov 6, 2008)

Personally , I would never want to have to take a life. I can't say how it would effect me after either. I am definitely not a Rambo type by any means, but I would use deadly force to protect myself or my family. It does seem to me tho that there are some hard core guys out there that seem to be looking forward to it. :/
I was just at the grocery store with my youngest son. I am in Va. So we have an open carry law, also I have a CCW permit. I always carry when I go out. I was open carrying today , and did get a few "looks" , but that does not bother me. My son made a remark about some crazy dude coming in a pulling a gun like the guy in Sandy Hook. He was implying that I could take care of it. I told him very seriously that if that ever happened -God forbid- that my first thought would be to get the hell out of the store and not try to be a hero. I also told him that if there was a chance that I could stop him I would certainly try to keep innocents from getting shot, but always the best thing is to get away safely. 
He's only 10 so still innocent in his own right. I try very hard to keep my kids - kids 
It is very hard to in this day and age. 
Just my.02
Peace


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## taylort5 (Nov 6, 2008)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Sometimes takin a life has ta be done. It will be somethin ya live with the rest a yer life, you'll have nightmares about it, you'll relive it time an again. That be the cost a wars.
> 
> Yes, we have folk out there that thin it's gonna be great. Just what they been waitin fer. We'll be carefull what ya wish fer, ya just might get it. It seems lately that life be cheap ta folks. Death is seen so much on tv, in movies an games that people have gotten used ta it. That ain't the same as real death, but some folk don't know the difference. When I was a nipper, death came as a scary thin. Yer grandparents died an ya had ta go ta the funeral, ya lost a brother in a war that ya never got ta see much of. Death has been made easy, cheap an see it all the time.
> 
> ...


Amen brother!! You just summed it up perfectly!! Thanks


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

I am not former military....but I have been around some rough biker gangs when I was younger, and was standing next to a guy who laughed at one of them in a bar....he was shot in the head....it took five years for that scene to stop playing in my head every freekin minute of the day. I know it affects everyone differently, but violent death is NOT COOL. Would I shoot someone, yes, would I relish it, no. I think it is like Hillbilly said, people have been desensitized to violence through TV, Video, etc....and violence has been romanticized by the same. The reality is very different and I increasingly hate the "government" that has put us in a position of feeling we need to protect ourselves from each other due to their inability to govern properly .


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

bugoutbob said:


> As I read some of the threads here (and on some of the other forums I visit) I am always amazed at the number of cavalier Rambo-esque types I encounter - the kill em all and let God sort them out types. Now understand I am not a peacenic. I am former military, albeit not a combat vet. I made the decision long ago that I would not hesitate to take a life to protect mine and those I care about.
> 
> I am an evangelical Christian pastor and I have worked with the dying and been on scene for more than enough tragic and violent deaths to last a lifetime. I have counseled military and Leo's who have had to take someone else's life. I have worked with those who have had family member's lives taken by violence. Anyone's death, especially those who die by violence adversely affects all involved.
> 
> ...


Some people say that all the video-games and movies have de-sensitized us in NorthAmerica to death. That maybe true. Some people say that hunters who go out into the woods are de-sensitized to death. That may also be true. Some people say that others who have seen lots of death (police, fire, EMS, etc) are de-sensitized to death. That also may be true.

I have personally met people who talk-big about shooting and killing and such, but, the moment of truth comes when they pull the trigger on a deer or coyote or gopher. Most of the big-talkers I met never pick up a firearm again. In the case of hunting for deer, the next big test is if they can take a knife and gut the animal. I have watched more than enough big-talkers end up puking beside the gut-pile.

The rambos and mall-ninjas out there are just doin' the big-talk. The ones that you really need to watch are the ones who are silent and don't talk about it - they are the ones who really would consider pulling the trigger if the trigger was available..


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Another caution is don't mistake Resolved and prepared, with looking forward to it. When you know a fight is coming and there is no real was to avoid it somtimes you just want to get it done. Some of my worst moments in time have been the hours leading up to an action and somtimes it's easier to get in and get it done than try to stay balanced on the razor edge of readiness waiting and waiting and waiting. If it's gotta be done lets git to the nut cuttin and get it over with. I'ts not looking forward to the nasty task at hand it's a desire to get it behind you and move on. There are some of both around and it can be hard to tell the difference alot of the sortin will have to be done once the nut cuttin begins.


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## oif_ghost_tod (Sep 25, 2012)

I agree Naekid. It's almost always the quiet ones, but sometimes its the stupid or reckless ones too.

I still prefer not to be in the woods during the hunting seasons here (besides avoiding all the out-of-state hunters, aka "Flatlanders"), just hearing gunfire makes me anxious even almost a decade after deployment. Some guys don't even flinch when shot at, I'm definitely not one of those guys, lol.
I do, however, still reach for a gun when I hear a noise in the dark, and would pull the trigger again if I had to. Period.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Unfortunately, I think this mindset (in the OP) is what a lot of people (I think we call them sociopaths) are actually hoping for because then they get to act out their deepest darkest fantasies. Society puts a lot of pressure on people, and I believe that people must repress a lot of feelings just to keep it together. Imagine the conflicting emotions conjured up by the fact that *right this very second, you *(anyone that pays federal taxes)* are paying for, and are therefore directly complicit in the murder of innocents, and the torture of your fellow human beings.*
How does one deal with this? What does it take to rationalize these actions? I believe that in general, people are good. So how do we accept that bullets and bombs that we paid for are murdering innocent people around the world? We can rationalize it away, we can try to ignore it, or say (and at least somewhat rightfully so) that it is beyond our control. That is all well and good, but the facts remain.
This, obviously much more so than video games and the media, desensitize us to violence and may drive some to madness, or at least create the kind of mindset you speak of.
All of us are supporting the biggest war machine the world has ever seen. All the talk of video games, hollywood, and to some extent the guns themselves are offered up to us as distractions to keep us from thinking about the big picture.

Cognitive dissonance.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I was on another forum where the majority seemed to be Rambo-types. First of all, most of them were neither military or LEOs. The majority of them were very overweight. For them, the whole prepping thing was a big macho fantasy where they got to pretend to be manly. I guarantee you that the first firefight they are in they will pee themselves and probably have a heart attack. They were all talk. As time went on, it became apparent that most of them were all talk and very little skill or prepping.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Well unfortunately I am completely desentisized to it due to career choices. But that is only with strangers not close friends and family. That will most likely shake anyone up including myself. I know what haunts a lot of vets is not the stranger they handled but the close friends they lost. And I have zero desire to get involved in gunplay for 2 reasons. 1 - I have no desire to add any more memories to a full bank. 2 - most importantly, every time you need to draw and use its because you also are under the threat of death. Every time you get involved in that situation is like rolling the dice...... eventually it will come up snake-eyes and you lose. Nope, avoid avoid avoid. I always tell people I'm into peace love and harmony and its true. People who pray for hell have zero idea how really crappy it is.


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## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

First of all, this is a great topic for discussion.



kejmack said:


> I was on another forum where the majority seemed to be Rambo-types. First of all, most of them were neither military or LEOs. The majority of them were very overweight. For them, the whole prepping thing was a big macho fantasy where they got to pretend to be manly. I guarantee you that the first firefight they are in they will pee themselves and probably have a heart attack. They were all talk. As time went on, it became apparent that most of them were all talk and very little skill or prepping.


On to your post. What you say is everything I see. All these guys are all talk, no walk. Thing of it is, if you really are one of the people who would not second-guess yourself when it comes time to do someone in, then you would NOT be advertising it. Me? To be honest, I have no idea if I could pull the trigger, I really don't. I believe if it was my wife or kids then of course I will do what must be done. But how can I really be sure? Never went into the service, they said I was too fat. Never was an LEO, I've seen what they do and go through, and though I have worlds of respect for them, I don't want to do it. Who am I? I sit on a stool, behind a desk, and sell oil changes and air filters and tires. I have no knowledge on what it feels like to take a life, and I hope to Hell I never do. But when the time comes, for _any_ of us, who really knows? Rambo was an ok movie. But it was a movie. These people who talk big on the internet, or on some rediculous TV program, are full of crap, and likely have no training on firearms. When the time comes, they'll go first.


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## professor (Nov 19, 2012)

I agree - I hear people say that if a murderer got the death sentence they would be happy to 'throw the switch" - they have no idea what they are talking about. I have been present many times when we took a brain dead child off of life support, and I KNOW they are brain dead - I've seen the tests and participated in the brain death exams, and I still have difficulty with turning off the machines. Some of you will say that there is a difference in the two - but it is still a human life and the consequences are profound. None of us can give life - and taking a life leaves a mark on you, one that others cannot see. I can't even stand to see an animal killed! I do believe that I would defend my family and friends, but I know I would always carry the burden. I find the people on this blog to be mostly positive in their wish to be prepared - we may complain and whine on occasion, but most of the posts I read are about how folks are preparing for an uncertain future. Even though I hope to never have to use it, I have my carry permit and I practice frequently and encourage others to do so - but I don't ever want to have to pull that weapon! If my feet can get me away, I'll be running, not fighting!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think there's some macho Rambo fantasizing going on among some people. I also think that a lot of people see killing as when you shoot someone and they just fall down. They have no idea how scary combat is. They don't know what it looks like to see somebody take a round in the head. Or how long it takes someone to die. Or the incredible pain someone experiences from having a bone shatter from a gunshot. And they don't fully understand how taking a gunshot wound will be a death sentence after it hits the fan.

I'm not looking forward to using deadly force after it hits the fan. I don't want to have to deal with someone trying to break into my house or someone who got in. I have my family protect. It isn't just me. I have a wife, stepson, daughter-in-law, and grandson to 
protect. I would have to be aggressive in fighting any intruder. It would be bad if I killed someone and thought after the fact that I made a mistake. Or if I hesitated and it cost a family member their
life. I hope I never have to kill someone after the collapse.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

It is always easy to talk about taking a life if you have never been in a real life do or die. Once you have been shot at and had to shoot back life is a bit different. I do not wish to ever have to be in a shoot out again but I know it is a possibility and if things truly get bad a reality. 

One if the reasons we want to get away from urban America is you reduce the chances of random violence in a true SHTF experience. 

One of the things you are seeing is Rambo types are totally unprepared and for that reason need to convince themselves that Guns, Guts and maybe God will get them through. People who take preparedness seriously are rarely into Rambo. They tend to be blend in, get out, survive and let their family live another day. GB


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

I really do not know anyone in my real life that is like this. They will protect, but do they wait for the day? Can't wait, etc? No. 

I CWC to protect my children. I'll only shoot if I feel the person is trying to take us to another location or about to kill us. If he robs us or something and runs like a coward, so what.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

As I told my neice & nephew when they were younger, their Uncle Sailaway is not a fighter, he's a lover. I don't mind hunting & killing animals as they are going to feed me and I don't puke next to a gut pile. My whole idea of survival in certain scenarios is avoiding detection as I don't want to hurt someone or behurt by them. I would to protect me or mine, but I would also be talking to a theripist about it afterwaeds. just my .02. sail


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

DJgang said:


> If he robs us or something and runs like a coward, so what.


This is where I disagree (and if that makes me a Rambo (type), so be it) If someone were to try a rob us (while I was home) I would take it as a threat and shoot to kill.

Today you never know what is in a persons mind ... and I've never be good at playing games with other folks. (just the way it is).... I would to protect me or mine.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

*Andi said:


> This is where I disagree (and if that makes me a Rambo (type), so be it) If someone were to try a rob us (while I was home) I would take it as a threat and shoot to kill.


You are not a Rambo type for protecting your family. We re talking about these military wannabes who live a rich fantasy life on the prepper forums.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

I spent almost 7 years in the US Army. I definitely know what I am capable of as well as what it is to be shot at or have to shoot at someone. I also know what it is like to see your buddy/friend go down beside you and know there is nothing you can do to save them. Sometimes they are dead before they hit the ground...not a nice sight either. I do have a weak stomach anymore, so I do pile a bit when gutting a dear or when doing first aid on a badly wounded person. Do I hope for any type of situation where I have to pull a trigger? Hell, no! Am I prepared to do it when the time comes? Hell, yes! Without hesitation. Does that make me a "Rambo"? No. It makes me a realist.


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## AuroraHawk (Sep 12, 2012)

All of my military time has been in the National Guard and I was fortunate enough not to be called to active duty for Desert Storm before I was discharged. I've never had to shoot at a human, nor have I been shot at, so I don't know what will happen if someone threatens me or mine. All I know is that I have the training and the tools to do what needs to be done to protect me and mine. I hope I never have to find out, BUT I will continue to prepare for whatever the future may bring and that includes getting into the a mindset that won't allow others to harm me/mine. 

Andi, being prepared to protect yourself and who/what is yours, isn't being a Rambo. It is being ready.


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## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

DJgang said:


> I really do not know anyone in my real life that is like this. They will protect, but do they wait for the day? Can't wait, etc? No.


I do. I know more than one person like that. It's parts of living where I do. I am in a smaller township out in the "country", but only a few miles down the road is a "city" (quotes because the country ain't really the country, and the city ain't really the city, but to those of us where I live, the city is like a city and vice-versa. Kind of a result of living in the PA area I do.) Anyway, listening to these people talk is kind of like listening to white noise after a while. I know they are full of crap, and I know they don't even own a gun.

BUT! Just a few miles, in this "city", gang activity and violence is on the rise. And every day I have to deal with the knowledge that those sumbitches will shoot for no reason, and with no remorse. I see it daily on the news.

Which is why...


GrinnanBarrett said:


> One if the reasons we want to get away from urban America is you reduce the chances of random violence in a true SHTF experience. GB


...this post describes me to a T. We are in the market for a new place, and I will accept nothing less than at least a farmette, with open land. I can run barb wire, I can run electric fencing, and I can even hide all of it pretty well. Your first line of defense, folks, is a *view*. Nothing worse than not seeing it coming, especially when these pricks have consumed or destroyed all resources (I figure it will take no more than two weeks) in their "city" and come looking for more. Eventually, whoever hasn't died off, will make it to my home, your home, anybody's home. Hence the view approach. Some of y'all may disagree with me on that, but hiding in plain sight has worked for centuries. I'll stop now, because I believe I am about to slingshot completely off topic.

In short, they are out there, and they are gonna look for you. But out in the REAL country, not as many will find you, and I believe that will help keep the necessary from being done, I.E. just 'killing them all'.

Edited to add: Besides, I figure most of these Rambo types who DO have guns, will probably kill most of eachother off anyway.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

I never intended to suggest that anyone who was prepared to do what was required was a Rambo-wanna be. Throughout the history of mankind those who have survived have been those who were prepared to do what had to be done, not always what they wanted to do.

I was merely commenting on the large number of those types these forums seem to attract.

Some of the most dangerous men I have ever known have been very quiet well manner combat vets who could and have killed in a heartbeat but preferred to avoid trouble if they could, often going out of their way to do so.

I have a pastor friend in Africa who was a sniper in Rhodesia in the days before Mugabe. Quietest, gentlest man that I know and also the nastiest SOB in the valley when push came to shove.

I'd rather have one of him at my back than 1,000 of these kill em all let God sort em out types.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Those what know death, will not brag bout it. Those what have never dealt with the devil will brag. The day comes that ya make peace with your actions an life goes on.

Yes there be people what have zero brains that think it'll be great. They should listen ta the folks what have been there. I have a feller at work what falls inta the movie rambo type. He flat out told me he would simply use his guns an take what he wan'ts ifin it came ta that. I just gave him a blank stare. What a idiot. Will be the fastest way ta die. I feel sorry fer folk like that. There is nothin wrong with protectin ones family, that be human nature. That ain't a movie rambo type. Those that have watched to much tv er movies er played video games an thin there warriors are the ones what will have the rudest awakenin.

Ok, done with the surmon.


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## CapnJack (Jul 20, 2012)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Those that have watched to much tv er movies er played video games an thin there warriors are the ones what will have the rudest awakenin.
> .


Yup. Bingo.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Im not ex-military. No weapons or spec-ops training. I DID, however, grow up in some of the harshest hoods in America. Bakersfield Southside, where you could die for wearing the wrong shoes. Seattle Central District, where scared little white boys were targeted dailly, south Alabama, where Bubba the hickass ******* will beat you down for talking to a black girl. I learned how to fight like a crazy man, just to survive.
Yes, i used to be one of those retarded morons that probly wouldnt hesitate to kill someone else. I figured it out over time: NO CONSCIENCE. wanna know what put a stop to that stupid crap? Falling in love, getting married, having kids, learning tenderness and empathy, learning self sacrifice and forgiveness, GROWING A CONSCIENCE. Now 25 years later i know for a fact i would pull the trigger if i HAD to, but i would do everything in my power to get myself and my family out of danger if i could. I hope i never ever have to kill someone. From the things already on my conscience, i pray to Father God in Heaven that i never have to live with that on my heart.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

*Andi said:


> This is where I disagree (and if that makes me a Rambo (type), so be it) If someone were to try a rob us (while I was home) I would take it as a threat and shoot to kill.
> 
> Today you never know what is in a persons mind ... and I've never be good at playing games with other folks. (just the way it is).... I would to protect me or mine.


I was talking CWC, not home protection.


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## fishparts2003 (Jan 21, 2013)

Interesting thread, never seen this topic before, but know the type you are referring to. I have lived in some shady neighborhoods, in someways still do. I think a lot of these guys are the ones who know they don't have what it takes at the end of the day, and the big talk etc. is a hopeful scare tactic to try and keep others distance. Either that or they hope with enough talk they can convince themselves they really do have what it takes. The way this world is going many people are having to consider some worst case scenarios they wouldn't have dreamed of a while back, and that leads them to question what they are made of. May be a lot of what has the prepper movement gathering the momentum that it is.


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