# Immunities



## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Our natural immunities have been destroyed by years of docs pushing drugs on ppl for various illnesses. How do you all think this will affect society in a total collapse? I'm talking about contagious diseases; those that us as a species used to have a natural immunity to that we no longer have. 

Children used to get chicken pox and it wasn't a big deal. Now it's a catastrophy


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

Seriously learn something. Drugs have almost zero effect on viruses, the causes of most colds. Including chicken pox. If it gets past the vaccine it is something noteworthy and hopefully we can contain and kill that strain for the sake of other children.

We lose a percentage of our population every year to diseases. Now we've made it a smaller percentage. If a total collapse happens this will go way up. Right back to disaster levels history shows without medical treatment and prevention. Look up plaques and think less since in modern times we know about of modern sanitation.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Living too cleanly, in an anti-septic environment is what you should be looking at. There is a dividing line between a dirty environment leading to illness and a dirty environment exercising your immune system thereby making you healthier. Expose your kids to pets, let them eat dirt occasionally, stay away from anti-bacterial soap.

As bahramtheread notes drugs are not having the effect you imagine they are having unless we're dealing with a few specific classes of drugs used in cancer treatments or organ replacement surgery.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

I like to have antibacterial soap around for when I or someone else is sick with a bacterial infection. Otherwise, I just wash my hands well with regular soap


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

" How do you all think this will affect society in a total collapse?"

I think all will most likely die.
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But some will live to be a hundred or so.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Ditto to wehayt Bobb said,, plus:

Stay away form anti bacterial soap.
reason is the kind of bacteria that develop resiatnce to it are those that easily exhcnage plasmids with one another.
And while antibiotic resitance is completly different it is more common in bacteria that also freely exchnage plasmids.

So even if you kill some bacteria w/ anti bacterial soap you are selecting your hosue bacteria ot contain a higher percentage of plasmid exchnaging bacteria which is bad.

This is on top of the "lack of exercise for the immune system"


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

*Thieves oil ...*

Sorry ... first thing that came to mind. 

What Can A Motley Band Of Robbers Teach You?
600 years ago, four dastardly thieves used a secret formula to protect themselves against the plague in order to rob and pillage the dying and dead.

And yet lived to tell their stories ...


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## hilljen (Nov 28, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> Our natural immunities have been destroyed by years of docs pushing drugs on ppl for various illnesses. How do you all think this will affect society in a total collapse? I'm talking about contagious diseases; those that us as a species used to have a natural immunity to that we no longer have.
> 
> Children used to get chicken pox and it wasn't a big deal. Now it's a catastrophy


I mean this gently, but I think you may be overreacting a bit. What specific evidence do you have that our natural immunities have been destroyed? I think most of my circle of friends and relatives have unusual personalities, but I think they are pretty normal from a medical standpoint, and none of them have had their natural immunities destroyed. They aren't getting an unusual number of contagious diseases now, nor are there any other indicators that their immune systems have been compromised.

If we had a natural immunity to something before, then why would anyone have sought medical treatment for it and why would doctors have medicated it? I don't know of any natural immunity that we no longer have.

I do agree that the use of medications or chemicals has in some cases resulted in certain viruses or bacteria becoming resistant, but that is due to them changing, not us. We still have the same amount of resistance that we had before.

I have never had a doctor hold a gun to my head and force me to take a medication. My 14yo daughter had never taken an antibiotic because she never needed one. I'd say her immune system seems to be functioning fine. Children still get chicken pox. My daughter did about 10 years ago. Not only was it not a big deal, it certainly wasn't a catastrophy. What evidence do you have for your statement that it is a catastrophy now?

If parents have chosen to give their children so many medications that their immune systems have been damaged or have "protected" them from dirt and germs so that their immune system doesn't work well, then the fault is not all on the doctors. Those parents have to share some responsibility for the problem - regardless of whether it was intentional or not. As I understand it, this forum is all about taking personal responsibility and not blaming all our problems on others.

In my rural area, not only are people not sicker from contagious diseases than their parents and grandparents, they are healthier and living longer. I read a public health report for our area a while back and while I don't remember the specific percentages, there were very few things that were worse now, and not one of them was a contagious disease.

I think the real elephant in the room here is the issue of vaccines. Whether or not you agree with them, the statistics show a decrease in the incidence of contagious diseases in cases where vaccines are given (whether or not there are significant health side effects is a topic for another thread). That immunity is not inherited. I think the first few generations after the cessation of vaccinations would probably still get a few "herd" benefits since most of the population would have been vaccinated and would not be spreading those diseases. However, within a few generations, I do think that the prevalence of those illnesses would start heading back to what it was pre-vaccination age.

I definitely think improved knowledge of hygiene and how diseases are transfered from person to person could keep problems from getting quite as bad, but not if that knowledge is lost. I can imagine a time when people would say, "Only sissies wash their hands so much," or "I don't believe sickness is caused by little bugs so tiny we can't see them, that's crazy talk!" This is one of the reasons I have really drilled my daughter on health maintenance and disease prevention. While health education is often a throw-away class in many public schools, we made it an area of emphasis in our homeschool.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I also had chicken pox as a child, along with measles and it wasn't that big of a deal. Parents at my sons school view any rash (just this summer it was poison ivy) as CP and I seriously thought the woman was going to have a melt down. I wasn't meaning for it to sound as if I was blaming the doctors; absolutely parents who accept medical 'myths' are responsible for their child's well being. 

It might seem as I we are living longer, but research your genealogy, bet that you will fin ancestors who lived a lot longer than your recent family has without all the medical intervention. 

My point was that people are too worried about going to the doctor for every little sniffle and some refuse to leave without a prescription because they were taught that if they feel sick, they need an antibiotic. It's a mind over matter kind of thing; if I think I'm sick, I'll feel sick.


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## hilljen (Nov 28, 2012)

One woman who got all bent out of shape about a rash doesn't equal everyone considering rashes a catastrophy.

I have done fairly extensive genealogical research for my family. A few lived nice, long lives, but most didn't. However, they didn't die of disease as we know it. Many died young from accidents - lots of falling off barn roofs. A couple died due to being murdered (we came up from some rough stock). One died from a relatively minor scratch that turned septic. And several died either during military service or from health complications from injuries received during the wars. I believe the average age for them at the time of death would be in the low to mid 60's - not as long as the average today.

I think it is wrong to assume that everyone runs to the doctor all the time or has a lot of medical intervention. In my area that is not unheard of, but is not common. Our local doctor is a great guy - told my husband once that if he had it to do all over again, he'd rather be a veterinarian! He also is a fill-in preacher occasionally and plays mandolin in one of the local bluegrass/gospel bands.

I think it is important to seek the true facts and not overgeneralize to the point of sensationalism. Doctors pushing drugs have not destroyed everyone's immune system. The majority of us have not lost our natural immunities. Not everyone considers a rash to be a catastrophy.

As I mentioned, I do think the whole vaccination thing will become a prominant health issue after the SHTF. It is a big issue now in many countries. I have some friends who travel a lot and they decided to get a whole lot of vaccinations against tropical diseases that are rarely seen these days in America but are common in several 3rd world countries. I believe we could see things like that in the future. But not a loss of our natural immunities. Not over such a short time span.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

*Andi said:


> Sorry ... first thing that came to mind.
> 
> What Can A Motley Band Of Robbers Teach You?
> 600 years ago, four dastardly thieves used a secret formula to protect themselves against the plague in order to rob and pillage the dying and dead.
> ...


My youngest daughter defuses that blend of stuff through the house continuously.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

dixiemama said:


> It might seem as I we are living longer, but research your genealogy, bet that you will fin ancestors who lived a lot longer than your recent family has without all the medical intervention.


I happened to be helping my Son with a family tree for a school project after I read this post. I was very surprised to find that my relatives were living in to their 80's and 90's back in the 1700 and 1800's.

We never saw chicken pox as a big deal either for children. We did what my Mother and Grandmother told us to do. When one child in the family had them we sent the kids that had not had them over to "catch" it. They told us it was better to have it as children than to get them as an adult. :dunno:


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

In my area, this is my reality, these are the people I'm going to have to deal with post SHTF. They wld rather have a chemically produced 'medication' to treat the symptoms of a condition, not treat the condition itself. 

Remember when chicken pox parties were all the rage a few years ago? I mentioned to another mom at my sons school that I wished my son wld have had it so he had a natural immunity to it and she looked at me like I had 3 heads. 'Do you want him to be scarred for life or possibly die?' Was her response. Now remember I said CHICKEN pox, not small pox but they equate as the same thing. When I had CP, I was hospitalized overnight due to dehydration and have a few scars where I refused to not heed my mothers warning about scratching. 

It's not just about chicken pox or other childhood illnesses. I had a ruptured cyst in March; knew what it was, had them in the past, knew what to do, but was repeatedly pressed to go to the hospital bc my husbands family are fatalists. Everything is going to kill or maim you. My mother in law takes 46 pills over the course of a day for conditions that cld very easily be controlled with diet and exercise but bc her doc has told her 'drugs are better' she believed him without even trying to help herself naturally. Even after showing her how easily it cld be done and how much better he wld feel without the pills, it hasn't worked. She went my way for a month then back to pills 'cuz they're just easier'. 

In my family, the vast majority lived until their late 70's early 80's and a few even so far as 103. A few did die early deaths from accidents but very few from disease. The children who passed were involved in accidents, either drowning or snake bites. 

The point of this thread wasn't to debate my beliefs on immunities but to have everyone look around them at the ppl who believe whole heartedly in man made medicine rather than natural healing and how that will affect your preps. It was to help you be better prepared but if I have failed in that I request that this thread be removed.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Overuse of antibiotics is a problem but it's not because doctor's are pushing them on patients, it's quiete the opposite. Patients demand them even when unnecessary & useless.


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## ekkis (Dec 28, 2008)

apparently there's no way to delete messages. consider this a deletion


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## ekkis (Dec 28, 2008)

hilljen said:


> What evidence do you have for your statement that it is a catastrophy now?


is catastroph dialectical? your English seems otherwise well formed but I've found no dictionary that lists that word with a "y" in place of the regular "e" - catastrophe.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

We now live in a world of Television commercials for prescription drugs ... but hey ... they tell you on that same commercial what the side effects will be/do to you. 

Few will hear that part, different voice tone and all. (which if a person would do some research other than the tv and "their doctor " it would scary the crap out of "most" of them.)

Notice I did say most not all ...


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Davarm said:


> My youngest daughter defuses that blend of stuff through the house continuously.


:idea:

While I do use it ... I never thought to defuse it through the house ... Tell her I said :thankyou:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> Our natural immunities have been destroyed by years of docs pushing drugs on ppl for various illnesses. How do you all think this will affect society in a total collapse? I'm talking about contagious diseases; those that us as a species used to have a natural immunity to that we no longer have.
> 
> Children used to get chicken pox and it wasn't a big deal. Now it's a catastrophy


To be precise, antibiotics have no effect on your immune system. Years of overprescribing antibiotics have led to a number of drug resistant germs. You can find information on that here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistance

According to WebMD, chicken pox isn't a problem for healthy children.

http://www.webmd.com/vaccines/tc/chickenpox-varicella-topic-overview?page=2

The real problem in my view is that a lot of today's young people were raised in environments that were so sterile that it inhibited the development of a healthy immune system.

After a collapse there won't be children being immunized anymore. The childhood killer diseases of 100 years ago will run rampant again. Young children will be killed by polio or be paralyzed for life.

Here's a link to those diseases:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf


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