# China



## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Alright I've read a number of threads talking about them taking away our guns. One of the stongest arguments I heard against it, was the amount of guns we have as US citizens, compared to foreign countries military armament. My question is this (also my fear), what if the Chinese government has a stockpile of enough guns to invade us with. Lets say they send 1 billion people over, and they are all armed.

Tin foil hat, yeah I know. Does anybody see this happening (Chinese invasion)? If not please support your reasons, so that I can hopefully gain some piece of mind on this.

Also found this site listing civilian gun ownership of over 100 countries.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list


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## Freyadog (Jan 27, 2010)

I have often wondered about China. However how many ships and planes would it take to get them here in order to invade and overtake? they have the guns but do they have the transportation?


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Invading America would be worse than attacking russia in winter. Besides, they dont have to. All they have to do is replace the dollar as the world currency. Not an expert, just my opinion.


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## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

This is something that keeps me awake at night because we are far out numbered. At some point I worry they need space and want our fertile ground and are going to air drop them in like crazy near small town where they can gain access to vehicles.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> Alright I've read a number of threads talking about them taking away our guns. One of the stongest arguments I heard against it, was the amount of guns we have as US citizens, compared to foreign countries military armament. My question is this (also my fear), what if the Chinese government has a stockpile of enough guns to invade us with. Lets say they send 1 billion people over, and they are all armed.
> 
> Tin foil hat, yeah I know. Does anybody see this happening (Chinese invasion)? If not please support your reasons, so that I can hopefully gain some piece of mind on this.
> 
> ...


Think about the logistics of moving that many people. Even if the troop ships were disguised cargo containers, that would still be a huge number of ships. First they would have to construct them, and even if they did that, then a huge fleet of such ships moving across the Pacific would draw the attention of the US military and intelligence agencies. If the ships are largely undefended, well a couple of torpedoes and down they go!

They could attempt an invasion after a SHTF situation if it didn't affect them as much as it did the USA.

China could attempt such an invasion, but in the long run it will cost them, and cost them big. Me? I'm not really worried about that scenario. They would probably nuke us first and then send the hordes, and even that strategy will cost them big as well.

Of course this is just my opinon...


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Zanazaz said:


> Think about the logistics of moving that many people. Even if the troop ships were disguised cargo containers, that would still be a huge number of ships. First they would have to construct them, and even if they did that, then a huge fleet of such ships moving across the Pacific would draw the attention of the US military and intelligence agencies. If the ships are largely undefended, well a couple of torpedoes and down they go!
> 
> They could attempt an invasion after a SHTF situation if it didn't affect them as much as it did the USA.
> 
> ...


Bzzzttt... wrong. What are you talking about? If North Korea can successfully invade Colorado (see Red Dawn thread) then China making beach landings in California should be a walk in the park.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

I hear ya'll. Logistics would be a nightmare, but it could be done. They are the largest manufacturers in the world. If they did send a million and half got through, that would still be 189 million over our population. Even if they lost 3/4 it would still be enough to cause us trouble, alot of trouble. Hell lets say they only land 500,000(my understanding is that we have about 2.5 million people in the military.), it would still be devastating. Not saying they could win, just worried that they would be stupid enough to try this.(no insult meant to any Chinese on the stupid statement.)


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Bobb 
AWESOME!!!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> Alright I've read a number of threads talking about them taking away our guns. One of the stongest arguments I heard against it, was the amount of guns we have as US citizens, compared to foreign countries military armament. My question is this (also my fear), what if the Chinese government has a stockpile of enough guns to invade us with. Lets say they send 1 billion people over, and they are all armed.
> 
> Tin foil hat, yeah I know. Does anybody see this happening (Chinese invasion)? If not please support your reasons, so that I can hopefully gain some piece of mind on this.
> 
> ...


They would be wiped out before they got to our shores. Now, if China isn't effected very much by the collapse they might be able to land equipment in Mexico and cross the border with it. Ten million Chinese troops could take over a good chunk of the western US in a post-collapse world.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Bills copy that sir. That was what I was wondering, do we have enough fire power to take them out if they ever decided to do this. Not guns but heavy artillery!

Also post collapse world would be collapsed nation as well, right. I know we will still think of ourselves as Americans, but if we won't be able to defend her, then will not all be lost. To be controlled by an outside entity would, I think, would be unbearable, to say the least.
And I'm not saying the most.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I am more concerned about a few million Mexicans coming across the border. Already more than a million a year come here. What if 20 million came across? Or 50 million? They would over run and over whelm all the southwestern states. I don't see how they could be stopped. If China tried it we would have warning with the build-up and the mass of ships. No warning if Mexico does it.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

China or Mexico could invade and they could easily do a lot of damage, because my concern would be who would stop them????

The invaders could be 500 miles into the country before our military could do anything (even if we had enough of our military inside the country with enough solders to do it). It might be left up to the US citizens and their weapons to slow them down or stop them.

Wait, I forgot to consider Canada invading?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Look at it from the perspective of D-Day. To transport 150,000 troops and all the gear needed to begin the invasion, the allies employed over 5000 vessels. Now granted, many ships are much larger today. The USS Ronald Reagan carries a crew of 3,200 plus the air force personnel. How many ships of that size does China have at their disposal? :dunno:

If the Chinese were to begin a deployment of troops large enough to mount a serious campaign against the US, it would never go unnoticed. Even if it was done in stealth mode by slipping a few ships worth of men and gear into Mexico, it would take years to accumulate that many resources in one place. Even then, the build up would be all too apparent.
Never going to happen. JMHO.


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## urbanprepper (May 15, 2012)

Just a thought, what if they "one second after" us, emp us, take out all of our infrastructure, wait a year or two, then just come over and take the whole continent.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

China don't need ta go ta the expense a invadin us. All they gotta do is stop shippin stuff here.

Then what we gonna do? We make far to little a our own stuff anymore ta keep goin without the imports. 

See, no need ta invade, costs to much.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Seriously? The Middle East is on fire you all are worried about China. China has their own problems. They own our debt and if we collapse there goes their economy.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Seriously? The Middle East is on fire you all are worried about China. China has their own problems. They own our debt and if we collapse there goes their economy.


No, not worried. Just answering and discussing the OP's question.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

China is all over the Middle East, all over Central America since Jimmy Carter gave them the canal. I used to live on that canal. They are all over Africa too. China and Russia together is how it is going to be.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I guess its theoretically possible, seems unlikely. The nuking strategy would make more sense if you were just trying to take our land.
I musta missed the part about DPRK invading Colorado?



CrackbottomLouis said:


> Invading America would be worse than attacking russia in winter. Besides, they dont have to. All they have to do is replace the dollar as the world currency. Not an expert, just my opinion.


Correct on both counts.



hiwall said:


> I am more concerned about a few million Mexicans coming across the border. Already more than a million a year come here. What if 20 million came across? Or 50 million? They would over run and over whelm all the southwestern states. I don't see how they could be stopped. If China tried it we would have warning with the build-up and the mass of ships. No warning if Mexico does it.


This could (will?) happen without a shot ever being fired.



deetheivy said:


> I know we will still think of ourselves as Americans, but if we won't be able to defend her, then will not all be lost.


I'll not bring my politics in by addressing the rest of your statement, but what exactly defines 'America'? Our physical borders? Our 'culture'? Our gubt? The people? 
This will sound wacky, but if you think about it, if we all stopped believing in it, it would cease to exist except as two lines drawn on a map.


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## radio477 (Feb 9, 2012)

Invade us, probably not, expand there borders thru Asia and other regions sucking up resources, most likely. There are much softer targets than the US. Mexico won't invade, we have already been handing it over, free health care, food stamps, housing, public aid. We are a house divided, with compromised morals and a soft will. The US is defeating itself and I pray we turn it around. God bless the USA


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Seriously? The Middle East is on fire you all are worried about China. China has their own problems. They own our debt and if we collapse there goes their economy.


Sorry have had this on my mind for a while now with no intelligent people to discuss it with. You are right about current situations. Also no all I'm worried about is not China. I'm late to the game and hoping to catch up, and apreciate all the help that's given. I do understand your outrage, sorry.

Immolatus

I'll not bring my politics in by addressing the rest of your statement, but what exactly defines 'America'? Our physical borders? Our 'culture'? Our gubt? The people? 
This will sound wacky, but if you think about it, if we all stopped believing in it, it would cease to exist except as two lines drawn on a map.

That's my point we are so seperated that if one state was called on to defend another I fear what would happen, remember I am a Tennessean and we are the volunteer state.

Oldcoot
That was part of the reason I posted this. Would it be more probable for them to destroy us economically or with an act of war? What I see is economically, but I don't know how their resources are.

Loved the post on the Canadians invading, any thoughts Naekid?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> All they gotta do is stop shippin stuff here. We make far too little of our own stuff anymore ta keep goin without the imports.


Sad but true... Do we even have any steel mills anymore?

I know lead-acid (car, boat, truck) batteries are *ALL* made in Mexico, thanks to our own EPA.


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## Domeguy (Sep 9, 2011)

I know lead-acid (car, boat, truck) batteries are *ALL* made in Mexico, thanks to our own EPA. [/QUOTE]

Not true, there's a factory down the road from here. Makes all sorts of lead-acid batteries


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Domeguy said:


> Not true, there's a factory down the road from here. Makes all sorts of lead-acid batteries


I had at first guessed that they just assembled pre-made battery "components" into a finished product at Exide in Salina.

According to a google satellite image, it looks like they do it *all* there.

I am surprised.... Last I checked there weren't any more "lead melters" left in the USA - - - any of that activity was moved out of country due to lead emissions in the air.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Sad but true... Do we even have any steel mills anymore?
> 
> I know lead-acid (car, boat, truck) batteries are *ALL* made in Mexico, thanks to our own EPA.


We still have a few, nothin like we used ta.

Remember WWII? Know why we was able ta win that war? Cause we could make anythin needed ta do so. Food, equipment, clothes, ammunition ya name it, it was made right here in this country by Americans.

We could never do it again. We've given up that security.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Domeguy said:


> I know lead-acid (car, boat, truck) batteries are *ALL* made in Mexico, thanks to our own EPA.


Not true, there's a factory down the road from here. Makes all sorts of lead-acid batteries[/QUOTE]

There's one in Eastern Pa. also.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Remember WWII? Know why we was able ta win that war? Cause we could make anythin needed ta do so. Food, equipment, clothes, ammunition ya name it, it was made right here in this country by Americans. We could never do it again. We've given up that security.


I have been worried about this for several years. I read an article in the paper a while back that ship welders were desperately needed... a lot of this country's ship welders are workers from other countries!


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> Sorry have had this on my mind for a while now with no intelligent people to discuss it with. You are right about current situations. Also no all I'm worried about is not China. I'm late to the game and hoping to catch up, and apreciate all the help that's given. I do understand your outrage, sorry.


LOL I wasn't outraged. LOL

China is picking a fight with Japan. They are flexing their muscles because they see our foreign policy disasters being played out in the Middle East and Africa. China has so much of our debt that in the likely event that our economy collapses, theirs will too and they know it. Their economy is built on false expansion. They have been building ghost cities to keep things going along. It is about to come to halt. That is why they need a war with Japan.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

That's my point we are so seperated that if one state was called on to defend another I fear what would happen, remember I am a Tennessean and we are the volunteer state.


And what part of that state would you be from??:scratch

Robertson County for 57 years before moving to Ky 5 years ago.:wave:

If all the stories circulating of Hillary pacifying the Chinese by giving them our state and national parks, we won't have to worry about an invasion...heck, they already are building a city for them in Idaho.
Ixquick it.

Oh, and the plausibility of China invading without being identified...uhhh, 19 Arabs with boxcutters did a lot of damage considering we have a multi-billion dollar defense system on the most guarded building on earth...

Just kidding!!! I know the truth, but our govt says.....


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Well I hear they are right off our shore now. USA Divers have cracked their heads on the subs just a few miles out.Just when you thought it was safe to g ointo the water.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

*Beijing hints at bond attack on Japan*

They could easily pull something like this on us.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

*Let's make this a little easier for folks to read.*

Jin Baisong from the Chinese Academy of International Trade - a branch of the commerce ministry - said China should use its power as Japan's biggest creditor with $230bn (£141bn) of bonds to "impose sanctions on Japan in the most effective manner" and bring Tokyo's festering fiscal crisis to a head.

Writing in the Communist Party newspaper China Daily, Mr Jin called on China to invoke the "security exception" rule under the World Trade Organisation to punish Japan, rejecting arguments that a trade war between the two Pacific giants would be mutually destructive.

Separately, the Hong Kong Economic Journal reported that China is drawing up plans to cut off Japan's supplies of rare earth metals needed for hi-tech industry.

The warnings came as anti-Japanese protests spread to 85 cities across China, forcing Japanese companies to shutter factories and suspend operations.

Fitch Ratings threatened to downgrade a clutch of Japanese exporters if the clash drags on. It warned that Nissan is heavily at risk with 26p of its global car sales in China, followed by Honda with 20pc. Sharp and Panasonic both have major exposure. Japan's exports to China were $74bn in the first half of this year. Bilateral trade reached $345bn last year.

Mr Jin said China can afford to sacrifice its "low-value-added" exports to Japan at a small cost. By contrast, Japan relies on Chinese demand to keep its economy afloat and stave off "irreversible" decline.

"It's clear that China can deal a heavy blow to the Japanese economy without hurting itself too much," he said. It is unclear whether he was speaking with the full backing of the Politburo or whether sales of Japanese debt would do much damage. The Bank of Japan could counter the move with bond purchases. Any weakening of the yen would be welcome.

A recent study by the US Defence Department concluded that a Chinese firesale of US debt was not a serious threat.

The US defence secretary, Leon Panetta, was in Beijing on Tuesday to try to stem the political crisis, calling for restraint on both sides.

He warned earlier that "provocations" over the islands could spiral out of control and lead to conflict.

Mr Panetta said the US is neutral but this is a hard balancing act, given the US nuclear umbrella for Japan and its use of military bases on Japanese soil as an "unsinkable aircraft carrier". The ambiguity of the US role was glaring after a deal with Tokyo on Monday to build a new anti-missile radar shield - ostensibly against North Korea.

Diplomats say China is calibrating the crisis to probe the strength of US ties with Japan, knowing that alliance fatigue in Washington and the clumsy handling of the dispute by Tokyo has created a rare opportunity.

The Obama administration must navigate a delicate course. A tough line against China risks putting the world's two superpowers on a collision course: a soft line risks setting off alarm bells in Japan and pushing the country towards rearmament.

Christian Le Miere from the International Institute for Strategic Studies said the crisis had become dangerous, citing Mao Zedong's aphorism from 1930 that "a single spark can start a prairie fire".

He said the region is "rife with historical enmity and chauvinism", encouraged by Tokyo's "seeming lack of contrition for wartime atrocities" and China's own well-nurtured narrative of humiliation by foreigners.

China's post-Maoist regime derives its legitimacy from nationalism, especially now that the boom is fading and China is losing some of its competititve edge.

The anti-Japanese fervour was systematically stoked by the "Patriotic Education Campaign" of Jiang Zemin in the 1990s to divert attention from party corruption and the growing gap between rich and poor.

But it is a double-edged sword for China's leaders. "Given its potency, it is difficult to control. Nationalism can turn against the government, if it is perceived as doing too little," he said.

Markets are already starting to price in an arms race in Asia. Shares of China's North Navigation Control Technology, which makes missile systems, have jumped 30pc in recent days.

China is becoming self-sufficient in defence. It was the world's biggest net importer of weapons six years ago. It fell to fourth place last year.

Japan is at the other extreme. An official report this year - "A Strategy for Survival" - said Japan's spending on its "Self-Defence Force" had shrunk by 4pc in 10 years. It called for "urgent" action to rebuild the country's military.

If there is any silver lining in an Asian arms race, it may at least soak up the region's excess savings and pull the world out of semi-slump. But be careful what you wish for.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Dont need China. DPRK could do it tomorrow. They dont need thousands and thousands of freighters full of people, and hundreds of airplanes full of shock troops.

Two, maybe 3 conventional freighters with atomic warheads on the most basic of missiles, then detonated in our atmosphere would wipe out the grid. Instantly and irreversibly. let the majority of people here fight it out for a year or two, which would deplete the number of people who are capable and willing to oppose a ground invasion. Then whatever is left over will be easier to take down. human wave and scorched earth are hallmarks of their combat style. Does anyone really believe they'd be merciful on us???





 a simple video explanation of how bad it can go in a very short amount of time, once someone decides "lets do it"

Is it in their best interests? No, but that's from my point of view, not the point of view of the leadership over there who are no doubt concerned about the westernization of their culture, and their own ability to control the peasants they have now, much less ones they'd acquire in a successful campaign against the US and presumably Canada, and in the meanwhile Europe would no doubt have its hands full with an aggressive Russian army, but I dont think Europe has the stomach for another one right now. Especially if London reaches a temperature of 10,000 degrees in about a microsecond.

Honestly, I was surprised Kim Jong Il didnt do it, he was such a pathological narcissist, I didn't think he could imagine a world without him in it, or having taken that last step to shape it's future.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I think that if the US goes down so will the rest of the major players in the world economy. If China EMPed us, their economy would crash too, so would the rest. I don't think anybody really wants fork with us that much, well maybe the Islam crazies. IF our soldiers didn't have to fight a politically correct war, that shit would have been wrapped up by now!!

Remember, it isn't just our active military, there are the Reserves, the Guard, LEOs, and all us knuckle draggin-gun-totin-conservitives!! They would just plain and simple have too much to lose and not enough to gain.


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## Londoner (Aug 24, 2012)

You don't need to worry about a military invasion. China is systematically buying up large amounts of the US debt with cash from its large trade surplus.
At the rate it is going it will end up owning you. For some _strange _reason this is not being widely reported in the US, I can only wonder why. Its like a game of monopoly

They are also buying up vast tracts of land in Africa, whats their plan there? Recolonisation?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Let's put some numbers into play, shall we?


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

China seems to be in the process of setting up mini cities in the US. the one in ND(?) is apparently going to be a free trade zone. If in fact they are allowed to continue, watch out for this. They will populate the city with their own sovereign citizens, and they will NOT follow US laws. BUT, now the product produced in the free trade zone will be considered MADE IN THE USA!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

partdeux said:


> China seems to be in the process of setting up mini cities in the US. the one in ND(?)


^ South of Boise, Idaho, actually....

But just for fun, the area of the entire state of North Dakota is 70,700 sq mi = 45,248,000 acres.

For fun, let's say the Chinese started negotiations on a "contract to buy" a few years ago (before the big oil drilling boom) and negotiated for $1000 an acre (many farmer's would sell at that price point)

That would be $45,248,000,000

A measly 45 billion to buy an *entire state?*

Yeah, they could swing that and still have lots of spending cash left over. 
Shoot, even Bill Gates could have pulled that off! (legalities notwithstanding)

Scary, huh?

So yes... if they set up corporations here in the USA, they could buy enough pieces at a time to have controlling interest of an entire area (after a while).
They are snatching up assets left and right already.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Hell, all they would have to do is close all the Chinese restaurants all at the same time, without warning. Half of the US population would starve in a couple weeks!!!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Tweto said:


> China or Mexico could invade and they could easily do a lot of damage, because my concern would be who would stop them????
> 
> The invaders could be 500 miles into the country before our military could do anything (even if we had enough of our military inside the country with enough solders to do it). It might be left up to the US citizens and their weapons to slow them down or stop them.
> 
> Wait, I forgot to consider Canada invading?


What do we have Canada would want Eh? 
Our factories are gone, our beer sucks, their women are prettier and their dope is stronger.let's invade THEM!

with a cooler and some steaks...:kiss:


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## urbanprepper (May 15, 2012)

Magus said:


> What do we have Canada would want Eh?
> Our factories are gone, our beer sucks, their women are prettier and their dope is stronger.let's invade THEM!
> 
> with a cooler and some steaks...:kiss:


As a Canadian, feel free to invade with a cooler and steaks! always welcome!!


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

JayJay said:


> That's my point we are so seperated that if one state was called on to defend another I fear what would happen, remember I am a Tennessean and we are the volunteer state.
> 
> And what part of that state would you be from??:scratch
> 
> ...


shelby county memphis my friend


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