# Battle belt question.



## PipLogan (Apr 25, 2011)

I think the question has already been asked but I can't find it. Do you guys use a battle belt? If you do what brand do you all like?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Fer CERT (an other times) I wear army issue web gear consistin ofa pistol belt an the suspenders ta go with it. I have the butt pack, drop leg rig, administrative pouch an a first aid pouch mounted on it.

It works real well. I can hall a fair amounta gear on that rig an it be mid point a my body so balance be better. Plus, easy ta add er subtract pouchs as needed. The suspenders help support the wieght so the belt don't pull on yer hips so much. It also leaves open the option a carryin a pack ifin ya wanna.


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## PipLogan (Apr 25, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Fer CERT (an other times) I wear army issue web gear consistin ofa pistol belt an the suspenders ta go with it. I have the butt pack, drop leg rig, administrative pouch an a first aid pouch mounted on it.
> 
> It works real well. I can hall a fair amounta gear on that rig an it be mid point a my body so balance be better. Plus, easy ta add er subtract pouchs as needed. The suspenders help support the wieght so the belt don't pull on yer hips so much. It also leaves open the option a carryin a pack ifin ya wanna.


Thanks for the idea coot!


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Im working on the same thing myself, PoU is light n agile basic survival kit, knife, holster, 6 AR mags, n 2 glock mags.. gotta get more pouches...


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## PipLogan (Apr 25, 2011)

FatTire said:


> Im working on the same thing myself, PoU is light n agile basic survival kit, knife, holster, 6 AR mags, n 2 glock mags.. gotta get more pouches...


Nice!

_________


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

I have a battle belt with H-Harness, the H-Harness helps carry the load that i put on the belt, I also carry a drop leg holster as well. The Harness has MOLLE attachments on it and i have small pouches mounted on each of them, one of the small pouches is a double pistol mag pouch the other is a small gadget pouch. The ones I have are here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035L00JC/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZU06IO/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0034YPDFQ/ref=oh_details_o09_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I will also add this, some people complain about these being uncomfortable, no different than large packs but if you get right down to it they just don't know how to properly adjust them for comfort, these work fine for me and i am 6' tall and weigh 190.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Nice stuff.. any experience how those drop leg rigs hold up moving thru heavy bush? Crawling thru the mud, snow?


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I am also toying with the idea of a battle belt...

but I have a nice and complete Molle chest rig right now that is finally fully sorted.
Transitioning would be spendy and a hassle even though the BB set up may be better.


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## PipLogan (Apr 25, 2011)

cqp33 said:


> I have a battle belt with H-Harness, the H-Harness helps carry the load that i put on the belt, I also carry a drop leg holster as well. The Harness has MOLLE attachments on it and i have small pouches mounted on each of them, one of the small pouches is a double pistol mag pouch the other is a small gadget pouch. The ones I have are here:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035L00JC/ref=oh_details_o06_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZU06IO/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...


Thanks for the input Cqp.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

FatTire said:


> Nice stuff.. any experience how those drop leg rigs hold up moving thru heavy bush? Crawling thru the mud, snow?


Been through a couple a search an rescue operations in wooded areas an several exercises, held up just fine in all sortsa weather.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

Just retired from the Navy after 20 years, have had a drop leg boarding ships and running through the desert and never had a problem with it. As far as mud/snow/rain well I would try to keep it out of the mud (as I would any firearm) but as for snow/rain a little bit of water never hurt anything, just clean and lube it good afterwards!


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Here is a nice battle belt article:
http://maxvelocitytactical.com/2013/11/mvt-battlebelt-evolution/


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

cqp33 said:


> Just retired from the Navy after 20 years, have had a drop leg boarding ships and running through the desert and never had a problem with it. As far as mud/snow/rain well I would try to keep it out of the mud (as I would any firearm) but as for snow/rain a little bit of water never hurt anything, just clean and lube it good afterwards!


Yeah, my thinking is that in a WROL situation, being shot at may mean that weapons systems get put thru things like crawling thru stuff I wouldnt ordinairily crawl thru. If that becomes necesary I want proven systems so im trying to look at all the pros and cons I can. Drop leg rigs are sounding pretty good for freeing up real estate on the belt, with the con being a marginal lessening of mobility (speed) over relatively long distances. Now I just gotta narrow it down to a particular product.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I decided if I am already carrying a rifle I am not likely to carry a handgun:

Why?

A handgun's abilities are almost nil compared to a rifle yes it adds non trivial bulk/weight.

And as long as I am not being followed around by a van full of water and ammo, I will use the extra weight/bulk taken by up by handgun for either more ammo for my rifle, or for a canteen of water, or for more ease of movement (being able to move fast and low can save your life)

Now if I am in a situation where i don't have a rifle at all, or its out of ammo or near out of ammo, and/or water is free/plentiful around me, I _might _ consider to carry a handgun. 
But thats really one of very few situations I can imagine where this passes the common sense test.

is it possible your rifle could have a stoppage thats not immediately fixable as so many people use for the handgun argument?
yes, but its *much* more likely that you may run out of water or Ammo instead.

And carrying a handgun will make that more likely as it uses up weight on your body that extra ammo or water could take.

Every ounce carried has to earn its place.

Remember we are not just sitting at a desk at our computers or spending all day at the motorpool fixing trucks in a risky area (where you dont carry a rifle but youmay still need to be armed and such holsterscan be useful )

its an imperfect world and we cannot be ready for all eventualities, and struggling to be ready for all eventiualities is laudable but may be counterproductive if we sacrifice capability ( extra ammo/water) that would help us in more likely eventualities... just attempt to be ready for the most likely ones..

A spare parts kits of little cost and almost no weight will go a long way to make your rifle fire way longer than you will likely have ammo to feed it:
http://www.keepshooting.com/ar15-bolt-group-parts-kit.html

And as for thigh holsters I consider them an especially limited application.
think abut it from a bioengineering standpoint.

yes its easy to reach but being and a place where it is moved by your locomotion means you are using an extraordinary amount of energy to carry it even beyond the added weight.

Moving dead weight with your legs is so bad for locomotion, think about sports cars wheels, they say every pound of weight added at the wheels is like 4 lbs added elsewhere.

Thigh holsters make sense only in a situation where you are vehicle borne and/or are not really limited by movement.
Such as Police, guards at fixed facilites , security contractors riding around in vehicles in a high resource environment.

In a SHTF prepper environment almost certainly a sub optimal choice.
if the handgun is the only firearm I have and the thigh rig the only holster, then by all means I would use it, especially if the PoU you are thinking about is walking around your BOL w/o a rifle.

But if you envisage a PoU trekking thru the post apocalyptic wasteland then no.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Not thinking "military," but as one who grew up in Western Washington, where there is a LOT of underbrush and it's very often wet: I avoid not only drop holsters, but pretty much anything below my waist and pretty much anything that can easily snag. 

If I was a soldier in the desert, wearing armor and other modern gear, that drop leg holster would look good to me. But I'm not. 

I have come to like cargo pants, because I EDC more gear in my pockets than most people and I do NOT like sitting on anything in back pockets. That seems a bit of a contradiction, but I try to keep the cargo pockets modest in size and not stuffed or of a design that snags easily. 

One could make a fascinating hobby of studying Load Bearing Equipment and its evolutionary history. Cave men, Vikings and Roman Legions all had to carry a certain amount of gear with them. What we have available now is amazing. But each of us still has to tailor his kit to his particular needs and environment. For me, bulk is bad, weight is bad. But I'm getting old and lazy, and I live where the underbrush is often very dense.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Yeah, ive read lots of arguments for just carrying a battle rifle. For me, ill do extra PT and carry my Glock. Call it a security blanket  Ultimately for me it boils down to the fact that if I keep a pistol integrated in my systems, I will always have a weapon on my person.

I have multiple PoU's, which may mean I need multiple battle belt systems. One is, working around a homestead in a WROL world, where critters with 4 and 2 legs could be a threat. Another is, theres a good chance Ill be working a long way from home and I want at least the chance of getting back in the event of a collapse degrading into WROL. Most likeky I would be in a vehicle, but I want to also be prepared for not having that option. Another is, there may arise an EROL situation, with a resistance being formed. If that happens, I want to be prepared to join. For most of the situations I want to be prepared for, and considering that I am unwilling to give up my Glock, a drop leg holster is, based on my research, a good fit.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

HamiltonFelix said:


> ...If I was a soldier in the desert, wearing armor and other modern gear, that drop leg holster would look good to me. But I'm not...


I agree.

My opinion: The only time I would consider a drop holster is to clear a plate carrier or ruck's waistbelt during a pistol draw. And then it should be only as low as needed to clear the PC/belt during a draw. 99% of the time this necessitates only one stabilizing thigh strap that fits close to the crotch. An elastic with silicone "beads" on the inside is really nice (a la Safariland).

Any lower and most of our anatomies mean you can't draw quickly on the run or at least dipping your shoulder (time and stance costs) to retrieve the pistol.

In real world activity, your legs sometimes end up fighting the restriction of thigh rigs. I've yet to find one that when worn tight enough to keep from elliptical orbit doesn't pull my trousers to the top of my boots. And there's usually the issue of smacking them on door casings, building corners, etc. Sometimes a PITA in vehicles. Definitely not quick reaction gear.

I could maybe see running a slimline subload for med and other gear. But I keep away from them if I can.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

BlueZ said:


> I decided if I am already carrying a rifle I am not likely to carry a handgun:
> 
> Why?
> 
> A handgun's abilities are almost nil compared to a rifle yes it adds non trivial bulk/weight.


I have a hard time thinking of when I wouldn't carry a sidearm. But we don't exactly agree on the need to practice transitions and such. ;-)

Four things I reasoned in support of a cop's backup gun: Bad ammo (catastrophic overpressure or perceived squib), primary firearm malfunction, primary firearm damage, holster trapping when using Level II and higher holsters. The first three are directly applicable to rifles as well.

I've seen firearms put out of service due to drops, struck by bullet, bent in a vehicle accident, obstructed barrel and more. If it's one of the primary mission tools--such as a compass--it needs a backup somewhere in my group.



> A spare parts kits of little cost and almost no weight will go a long way to make your rifle fire way longer than you will likely have ammo to feed it:
> http://www.keepshooting.com/ar15-bolt-group-parts-kit.html


I carry a complete spare bolt, firing pin, broken shell extractor and tiny lube tube on the rifle. I don't like screwing around with gas rings, small springs, pins etc. in the field. The bolts were used in the same rifle for a bit before stowing. Simply swap bolts and go.

I need to find a sub-.22 aluminum rod long enough to just clear the barrel/chamber.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

I think it was Clint Smith who said "your pistol is for fighting your way to the rifle you shouldn't have laid down." Well, the reality is, some chores will mean the rifle gets laid down. I'm not talking about foot travel, but living life in general. So the pistol should simply always be a part of you.

FnForm, what about one of those "rods" that looks like a speedometer cable? It's not rigid, but it can push pretty good, much better than a simple pull-through. I recall a .308 leaving the saddle scabbard and ending up with muzzle hitting the ground when my horse bulled through heavy brush. One of those "speedometer cable" jobs would have taken care of the problem in a moment, but all we had was a bootlace pull-through. We were up at tree line, took a while to find something we could whittle into enough of a rod to clean a couple inches of dirt out of the rifle barrel.

Aha, found it. For some reason I was thinking Outers, but it's not. It's Otis:

http://www.otistec.com/company/rifle.asp

If I couldn't afford one of their kits, I might just roll up a piece of old speedo cable or control cable to go with my pull-through kit. The Otis kit advertised could probably be downsized a bit more, some of that foam removed. It should fit into a belt pouch just fine. You carry a first aid pouch for taking care of yourself, might as well have one for taking care of your guns.


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## breacher2111 (Dec 15, 2013)

I use a condor enhanced molle belt with multiple pouches and a drop pistol holster. I have used drop rigs on various levels for medical, dump, ammo, and weapons while in the military. I like having the extra storage with a lower center of gravity, I use a "battle belt" for woods scouting and hunting along with "mock bug outs". While I do agree with the "rifle once, rifle always" mantra there are situations where a rifle is not as effective as a pistol IMHO. I like options especially when personal safety is the subject matter.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

HamiltonFelix said:


> Aha, found it. For some reason I was thinking Outers, but it's not. It's Otis:
> 
> http://www.otistec.com/company/rifle.asp
> 
> If I couldn't afford one of their kits, I might just roll up a piece of old speedo cable or control cable to go with my pull-through kit. The Otis kit advertised could probably be downsized a bit more, some of that foam removed. It should fit into a belt pouch just fine. You carry a first aid pouch for taking care of yourself, might as well have one for taking care of your guns.


Thanks for the ideas and suggestions! The cable would work well for a dirt-plugged bore.

The rod is for stuck cases and squib'd projectiles.

Not very often do you see troops overseas with a few GI cleaning rod segments connected and bound to the side of their long gun. All my GI segments are steel. I'd like to find a sturdy, lightweight alternative.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

The issue of carrying a leg holster, concealed or just a rifle also depends on the timing. Just after a collapse people will still be somewhat stunned. LE will most likely still be operational and walking around with an AR will attract unwanted attention. On your own land or in the backseat will be great but to see some guy you don't know walking down your street with an AR or AK will attraft unwanted attention. I also would avoid looking like a target with valuables. Drop leg holster and nice rifle might make someone with low morals decide it might be time for a sniper shot and free gear!! I would much rather look like a regular schmuck with nothing valuable and I would rather someone think I'm a waste of ammo instead of a gear rich target. Once I'm home its a different story. Break out the pistol belt gear and rifle cause I would hate to need something and not have it on me. But out and about I would stick with a concealed pistol cause on the road its better to be seen as a worthless non threat than a walking army surplus store.


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## Grape Ape (Oct 28, 2008)

HamiltonFelix said:


> I think it was Clint Smith who said "your pistol is for fighting your way to the rifle you shouldn't have laid down." Well, the reality is, some chores will mean the rifle gets laid down. I'm not talking about foot travel, but living life in general. So the pistol should simply always be a part of you.
> 
> FnForm, what about one of those "rods" that looks like a speedometer cable? It's not rigid, but it can push pretty good, much better than a simple pull-through. I recall a .308 leaving the saddle scabbard and ending up with muzzle hitting the ground when my horse bulled through heavy brush. One of those "speedometer cable" jobs would have taken care of the problem in a moment, but all we had was a bootlace pull-through. We were up at tree line, took a while to find something we could whittle into enough of a rod to clean a couple inches of dirt out of the rifle barrel.
> 
> ...





Fn/Form said:


> Thanks for the ideas and suggestions! The cable would work well for a dirt-plugged bore.
> 
> The rod is for stuck cases and squib'd projectiles.
> 
> Not very often do you see troops overseas with a few GI cleaning rod segments connected and bound to the side of their long gun. All my GI segments are steel. I'd like to find a sturdy, lightweight alternative.


While the Otis is a nice cleaning kit and will remove a small plug it won't remove a stuck case. Why carry the Otis and a rod when all you need is a rod. It will do the job of the Otis and any other job needed. The Otis is just extra weight. Plus when you have your shelter built, your water gathered and your food procured, cooked and eaten. You will have some free time, and there is no way you can roast a marshmallow with the otis kit. But yep you can use the old cleaning rod to burn it crusty for use between 2 graham crackers with a piece of hersheys bar.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Gotta admit, marshmallows are important. 

I'll be first to admit that a real cleaning rod is best. But for the times you can't take along a rod, I'll put the Otis kit ahead of an ordinary pull-through. 

You reminded me, though: Can I put hands on my stuck case remover quickly? My reloading room really needs to be organized....


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