# Group Survival



## bahaboyga (Nov 10, 2008)

We have a small group in our community that meets monthly to discuss preparedness. The meetings are informal but well organized. Our emergency retreat is a 40 acre parcel about 10 minutes from town owned my one of the members. Each primary member has specific responsibilities along with secondary duties. 

Although the group is open to anyone willing to help out. We had a problem
last week. A new volunteer is questionable. He has an anti-social personality, short temper, know it all type person and not very well liked by most of the people in our small town. He's unable to maintain any type of relationships with his friends or family.

I must have reiceived a dozen calls after the meeting to keep this guy out. On his behalf he does have some skills that are needed. But in the event of a long term situation he could cause alot of problems. 

Chime in with any ideas.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Make your group a club with membership duties and a prez, vice-prez, secretary and directors. Each prospect would be given 6 months to build a place in the club or be requested to leave and not attempt to join the club again for 18 months (think movie: BikerBoyz).

Create a mandate that recognizes team-work under the structure of the club administration. The person who owns the 40 acre parcel would hold the highest position of power (prez) with any other members having titles based on skills and a vote-in-procedure.

Finally - put the rules and guidelines in writing so that all prospects know what is expected of them, all full members know what is expected of them and executive know what is expected of them.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

bahaboyga said:


> Chime in with any ideas.


*YOU ASKED!*

Well, It's one of two things going on here...

1. This guy is a raving loon. 
Serious mental illness often comes with high IQ, so his 'Abilities' aren't really an issue.
If you can manage and extract is his 'Abilities', then he's an asset.
If you can't, then he's a liability.

2. You all are a 'Social Club', and don't want the 'Status Quo' of your social events disrupted...
You all are more devoted to pompous pretense than to the serious business of 'Survival' which will require some *Instant*, and *HARSH* decisions,
AND,
You don't realize a born leader when you see one.
---------------------------

Personally, an 'Extremist' personality is EXACTLY what is needed to 'Survive' in extreme conditions.
Barring outside intervention,
The guy that simply won't lie down and die is the one that will survive.

Our Government spends millions of dollars looking for 'Extreme' personalities to be Special Forces, Coast Guard Rescue Swimmers, Wild Fire 'Smoke Jumpers', ect.
-----------------------------

This is just my Opinion...
BUT,
Keep in mind that I was 'Operational' in the military, and I look for these traits when choosing employees now...

1. Worker.
If he shuts up and does the work asked or assigned to him, 
*THEN* Complains.... He's a keeper, just keep him occupied!

2. Hears Pertinent Information, then makes INSTANT decision.
INSTANT DECISIONS are the best thing you can hope for!
If he's mostly CORRECT, then he's worth the bother,
If he's mostly WRONG, make him someone else's problem.
(I HATE People that are supposed to be in charge, but can't make a decision on ANYTHING without a dozen meetings!
If you can't make a decision, then go put 'Widgets' together in a factory!)

3. Takes Responsibility For Mistakes.
Nothing pisses me off more than someone that was wrong about something and won't take ownership of it!
If they say, "I screwed up.", then we can get on to the process of FIXING THE PROBLEM,
Instead of wasting time with failure analysis just to prove what we all knew anyway!

4. Corrects His (and others) Problems!
FIXES THE PROBLEM, NOT THE BLAME!
If a guy says, "I Screwed Up."....
The next thing I want to hear out of his mouth is how he fixed, or is fixing the problem.

The guy that can get up in front of his peers and say...
This is what went wrong... This is what that mistake cost the 'company' or 'group'.
This is how I corrected it.
Just informing the rest of you in case this circumstance/event happens again.

Mistakes are INEVITABLE.
Mistakes cost money.
The longer you stand by a mistake, the more it costs.
BUT,
A $1,000 mistake can reveal a Million dollar employee,
Or uncover a useless SOB that will cost you a million in the long run!
--------------------------------

And Further More...
You need to talk to the 'Senior' members about it,
BUT,
You stand a good opportunity to help turn around someone that might not have had the socialization he needed growing up.
If three or four of you band together as an 'Oversight' and advisement group, you might be able to salvage a HUMAN BEING out of the deal!


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## bahaboyga (Nov 10, 2008)

Jeep Hammer

Stalin,Hitler,Hussein etc, were natural born leaders!

We have many members that have served or active military attending our "Social Group". We also have people that are 3rd and 4th generation off grid homesteaders.

I don't buy the para-military employer B.S., that style of management went out in the 60s. Successful companies run background checks,credit inquires and drug tests to eliminate social mis-fits,druggies,wife beaters etc

As a former member of the Military you should remember the importance of TEAM<WORKand story of the bad apple.

We have decided to limit his involvement, If a situation comes up and we need his assets we will take them.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

bahaboyga said:


> Jeep Hammer
> 
> Stalin,Hitler,Hussein etc, were natural born leaders!


HEY! Guy, You asked!!
Don't like the answers, then DON'T ASK!
------------------------

Correct!
And look at what your list of crazies accomplished!
Empire building! The most efficient workforces in the history of mankind to that point! (Excluding Hussein)

AND, LIKE I SAID...
You want something like that, *only without all the CRAZY* part attached to it!
(Or did you miss the 'Not Crazy' part?)

Like , Andrew Jackson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt,

Since you like the WW II references, Winston Churchill, Audie Murphy, Ike, John Kennedy, General Patton, ect....

Natural leaders doesn't necessarily mean 'CRAZY'!



> We have many members that have served or active military attending our "Social Group". We also have people that are 3rd and 4th generation off grid homesteaders.


So, you have a bunch of guys sitting on the laurels and accomplishments of their Dads, Grandpas, Great Grandpas, Great-Great Grandpas....? (3rd & 4th Generation?)

The military guys, Potato peelers or survival trained special forces?

And what EXACTLY does that have to do with anything I wrote?



> I don't buy the para-military employer B.S., that style of management went out in the 60s. Successful companies run background checks,credit inquires and drug tests to eliminate social mis-fits,druggies,wife beaters etc


Yup, if you want livestock that can't make a decision for themselves, that is EXACTLY what you want!

Small start up companies, like the one I work for, turned a idea for race car parts into a $15 million dollar a year buissness in less than 10 years...
WITH NO, that's ZERO, start up dollars, all of it is paid for as we went...

AND JUST FYI,
While the rest of Bloated, Livestock corporate America is getting raped by the 1% at the top that aren't live stock...
We just built a Million dollar building and filled it with $12 million in new CNC milling and drill centers...
AND, 
Gave $50,000 bonus checks to every single hourly wage worker in the place!
From the girls in Accounting to the guys that sweep chips up off the machine room floor!
Some of them were only making $25,000 a year and got a $50,000 bonus check!



> As a former member of the Military you should remember the importance of TEAM<WORKand story of the bad apple.


I sure do! 
The stronger the individuals, the more forceful the team!
That's why we are kicking ass in a depressed economy where people can't find financing, we are expanding, looking for new employees, and building new buildings as fast as we can get the ground and get the contracts signed!

We don't have 'Sheep', all our guys are going 24/7 for the company!
We actually started making money when we took our parts manufacturing away from 'Corprate' America and the 'China' producers....
Proving once again, WE CAN DO IT FASTER, CHEAPER, AND WITH TWICE THE QUALITY OF ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD RIGHT HERE IN AMERICA!

As far as 'One Bad Apple'...
Our guys try and focus the new 'Recruits'...
IF they can't, they are cut from the team.
Our employees decide who stays and who goes, not me.
I just hire them in when they are coming to fab shop or production shop...



> We have decided to limit his involvement, If a situation comes up and we need his assets we will take them.


That's taking advantage of him without rewarding him...
That's a pretty good way to make sure hes not going to turn out to be any good to you!
(Just like corporate sheep!)

AND, if you decide to toss him out, remember that when he turns to the wrong crowd (some people would say he is now) and decides to rob your house or steal your car, or sell drugs to your kids...
Remember you turned your back on him!

Anyway, Wish you luck!


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## Lowdown3 (Oct 28, 2008)

No one should be able to "join" your "group" so easily. 

At the very least the "social group" as you used the words should be used as a cover for recruiting for the REAL group. I.e, the "social group" is used for informal stuff, encouraging people to prep ON THEIR OWN, etc. 

It gives you a chance to observe people. Who's helping out? Who's just a "taker?" 

Obviously the "social group" people are NOT given much info. They need to think that it's just a group of folks sitting around chatting about preparedness over coffee. 

Six months or so after they join the "social group" and IF they have shown good character, attitude, willingness to help, and IF they have made some serious preps on there own, then they are slowly invited into the REAL group. 

I can't help but read into the initial post that everyone knows about the retreat. Bad juju. That should be a "real group" info only. 

Usually within the first year the bad apples will sink to the bottom. They will miss a lot, be interested only in what they can TAKE from the 'group', show bad character traits, etc. Most people that wash out of a REAL group wash out within the first year. 

You can trust them with little bits of info, but not everything and nothing of serious importance. 

They need to prep on there own and not think the group is Uncle Sugar Part II that's going to "take care of them." 

You'll find a lot of people interested in TALKING but a significantly smaller portion interested in DOING things. It's all fun and games until it's time to plunk down some bucks for food storage. Guns? Oh sure, they'll buy them, cause they are FUN. Don't judge them by how much guns and gear they have, judge them by:

*Character and attitude
*Family situation- is it really a working unit or is it the normal dysfunctional mish mash of crap that most American't families are now a days?
*Food storage- any REAL survivalist should have food storage. "Oh but money is tight for Jimmy and...." Bravo Sierra.... For less than a dollar a day they can put back a basic year of food. IF they are serious about this and care for their family, they WILL have food storage. Everyone else is PLAYING GAMES. No nice way to say it, but if you don't have food storage, your playing games....

Lowdown3


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## Largecar (Jan 30, 2009)

Great topic and posts. I now have food for thought in allowing our community to grow. I respect all the opinions. The idea of having a social club of preppers is something my family and I have talked about. That would give me the time to see if the person is legit or just off on some new kick. We don't live on our refuge full time as of yet but plan to by 2010. No one knows whats on our place but me and mama or even where it is. Our children and grands have their BOB bags packed at all times and ready to meet up at a moments notice.


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## C.Winslow (Oct 27, 2008)

This is a very interesting topic. It's so hard, you don't want to hurt anyone's feelings but you guys can't have a liability to the group!

That's very cool that one member owns your retreat where the group can stay but what happens if you have a falling out/disagreement with the owner and it ruins your relationship, lets say right before the SHTF or during....will he kick you out of his retreat? Gotta be careful on that one.....


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## ke4sky (Oct 21, 2008)

*Require Background Checks*

Unless all the persons in your group are family members or persons you have known for years and you really would trust your life to, require background checks. No exceptions!

We require anyone outside the family invited to our group to possess either state issued disaster worker, concealed carry handgun permit, first responder credentials or Dept of Defense civilian employee or active duty ID which by its very nature requires a current background check. Lacking one of those, there are private security firms which conduct background checks for a fee. Cost of the backbround check is borne by the applicant. If anyone objects it is real simple. They are not welcome. No convicted felons, child molesters, or insane wierdos need apply. Believe me this is a good filter!

You also need to trust your gut. If somebody gives you, your wife or daughter bad "vibes," this my friends, is known as "a clue." You might ask, "Would you do a background check on a young man who wanted to marry your daughter." The answer is emphatically yes! The alternative is: Would you bet her life not to?

I highly recommend Gavin de Becker's book, *The Gift of Fear*.
https://www.gavindebecker.com/books-gof.cfm


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

"Trust you gut" is the best advice ever. My "gut" has saved my life several times over.


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## ke4sky (Oct 21, 2008)

Canadian said:


> "Trust your gut" is the best advice ever. My "gut" has saved my life several times over.


Roger That!

Been there, done that, got the T shirt!


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Ok, here's a question: How would one find out if there are any groups in their area? I guess you could start one but people could miss out on some good stuff that you could give and recieve to others if you knew each other existed. In other words, maybe I start a group while the guy up the road (trusted friend) has a group already that you know nothing about.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Jason said:


> Ok, here's a question: How would one find out if there are any groups in their area? I guess you could start one but people could miss out on some good stuff that you could give and recieve to others if you knew each other existed. In other words, maybe I start a group while the guy up the road (trusted friend) has a group already that you know nothing about.


post messages on grocery store bulletin boards looking for like-minded individuals maybe?

look online (www.meetup.com)?

multiple groups in a close area isn't necessarily a bad thing, you could have a healthy mix of both cooperation and rivalry, like sports fans

on the other hand how 'trusted' of a friend is s/he if you know nothing about their group's existence


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

linked this from another thread... just click on your state

Find Out About Emergency Preparedness in Your State - Emergency Essentials


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

+1 to your comments Jeephammer! I fully agree


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

+1 on the points made by JeepHammer.


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## sgt.doug (Jun 1, 2009)

our group decided not to advertise for members..in fact our newest couple we met while camping, we decided what we were looking for (at that time we were looking for a doctor to coincide with the rn we had in the group......and thats how we found them.his wife owns and runs a small green house outside of denver and has the greenest thumb of anyone ive ever met. but we were a little nervous to advertise....


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

+1 to what JeepHammer said, as well. As an employer, those are a lot of the sorts of things I look for in prospective employees, and for good reasons: it works!


The one thing that hasn't really been addressed is leadership. Hammer touched upon it, but I disagree that the owner of the land should automatically be the "President" of the club. Just because he owns the land doesn't mean that he is most qualified to lead the group. Now, how to proceed with that could get touchy . . . he would definitely need to have a major share in the opinions, but I would say that in times of crisis, people need a leader to provide direction, not a commitee. Perhaps vote now on who would be the "operational leader" and make the owner the "facilities manager"; define who has jurisdiction over what, and who's say is final.


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## bountyhunter26 (Feb 2, 2010)

*Meriwether County*

Any body near Meriwether County. If you are give a shout and lets meet.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I think you already have the answer to your question*

I believe your looking for validation ... you have a group all get along most don't care for or want this guy... nuff said...

You owe him nothing, just tell him simply that the members don't feel he fits in and aren't interested in going further.

I would like to say I'm sorry for the rude attitude your post got...

[..deleted..]

JH is MIA


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

Trust your gut. Beware of quick tempered instant decision makers with guns. :nuts: A moment of spectacularly bad judgement can change a life forever and could affect everyone in your group.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

A group is identified by it's extreme members, whether it be through good works or crimes. That one individual can get you on a hot list, get you labeled, and get you in trouble. 

This is why groups must be limited and not really be considered 'groups'.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Loose survival cells, for some reason i don't think that would sound good to the commie left though. Might work though if some one acts like an idiot, cut off that foolish person or group, well then you have a whole nother thang there. Not good to have a group that knows all or most of your tactics on the outs, i reckon. Tough one?


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## ccole51 (Oct 20, 2010)

bahaboyga...grab a copy of Patriots by James Wesley Rawles..great book...lots of good info in it as what may come and is in line with the group theme.


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