# A Veteran Policeman's Observations on The Golden Horde



## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Letter Re: A Veteran Policeman's Observations on The Golden Horde - SurvivalBlog.com
Letter Re: A Veteran Policeman's Observations on The Golden Horde

By James Wesley, Rawles on November 30, 2010 6:41 PM

James, 
A lot has been written warning us of what will happen when the City Dwellers find their homes are untenable and vacate [en masse as The Golden Horde] for "the country", but I haven't seen anything on what the make-up of these hordes will be. The generic term "city dwellers" encompasses a lot of territory. Who will they be,what kind of shape will they be in, how will they be armed...all of these need to be examined.

One category needs to be examined, I feel, more closely than others. Since I have seen posts on your site lately dealing with the nitty-gritty, unpleasant aspects of prepping, I think this is a needed look into what's out there. I've been a cop over 20 years, my last uniform assignment before moving to Investigator being a two year stretch of Anti-Crime patrols in the Section 8 Housing projects of my city. This put me into contact with some of the "Worst of the Worst" that will be fleeing the cities in time of trouble. Gang-bangers, common street thugs, dope dealers and users, all have a place in the hierarchy of the streets. And they will certainly be part of what preppers will be facing in times of troubles. Here's some of what I have learned:

The bottom rung is occupied by the drug addicts and users. They exist, not live as we understand the word. They have no assets, no goals, no drive. But they do have an almost animal instinct to continue living. They will be armed with anything they can steal or lay hands on. Most will have a knife of razor box cutter, and some sort of cheap pistol, or they will not live to get out of the city. Since they have no resources or assets, they will be on the edge of starvation and desperation almost within a day of an event. With no fixed residence or place to defend, they will be hitting the road and coming towards us. They will become violent without any provocation and there will be no negotiating or bargaining with them. They don't want to hear your story or excuses. All they want is what you have. And have no doubts: They will do anything to get what they want. And this does include catering to their most base instincts of rape, murder and mutilation. Letting someone like this even close to you and what you have is flirting with death.

The next and most numerous will be the drones who make up the majority of the project dwellers. They live on Government Entitlement checks, have no assets and, on any given day will have no more than 3 or 4 days supply of food in their apartments,most of this being refrigerated. There will be a high percentage of females without male companions,will have a large number of children and will be absolutely vicious and violently inclined. Their day to day existence within the defined society they live in demands they be aggressive and violent.They fight more, and are arrested more,than the males they live around. The males will have more serious charges, but the females will have more of them. They too cannot be trusted. If they are drug users, they will, and have, traded their children for drugs, and, based on this proven behavior, will most certainly abandon them or trade them if the situation calls for it. Seeing that you are supplied, they will leave their children in your yard and walk away, counting on your liberal Good Samaritan instinct that has always bailed them out in the past to care for their offspring and justify that to themselves as "doing what they have to do". Knowing that they will do something as low as this,be assured they will do much worse. They habitually carry razor knives and small pistols such as .25 ACPs and .380 ACPs. They are very dangerous and unstable folks to be around. These females may or may not be accompanied by men. The males may be linked biologically to one or more of the children but will abandon them as easily as the females. These males come from the lower order of males (see next classification) and will be armed as described next.

The next order of classification will be unattached or drone males. These males tend to be convicted of felonies before they are 21 and who hang around the other, more productive males who deal drugs and have money. They will also be the so-called "foot soldiers" of the drug and street gangs. They exhibit sociopathic behavior and have no allegiance to anyone except maybe a family member, usually referred to as a "cousin" or a gang. They live off the female drones by paying cash rent, gained by low level drug dealing and petty crimes, to a female who has Section 8 housing, for a room that they sleep in and usually have no other attachment such as taking meals there.They live off fast food,carry guns of dubious origin and consume massive amounts of drugs and alcohol, mostly beer and cheap brandy and marijuana. They will not have any assets to defend, may accompany the female who rents them a room and will hang around the cities and projects only as long as their cohorts do. They will leave in junky vehicles,steal what they need along the way and kill,rob,rape and pillage their way across the countryside. Their weapons tend to be of the pistol variety although they may have access to shortened, easily concealable shotguns or rifles. Their lifestyle doesn't give them a secure place to hide or keep long guns,but they will steal and use them if given a chance. They will also have some type of blade weapon and be proficient with the use of them. They are very dangerous to anyone who comes into contact with them. The last and highest order will be the moneyed drug dealer.He will have a flashy vehicle such as an Escalade or Lexus variety. He will have quality firearms, preferring Glock handguns and SKS or AK type rifles and will have ammunition for them in quanity.He will be arrogant and a definite killer. He will have assets to defend and may not leave his comfort zone until forced by authorities or circumstances. He will have "foot soldiers" and a woman traveling with him, but probably not children. He will travel well and be charming when trying to gain confidence or talk himself out of a jam. He will also be vicious and hateful, full of spite at those he sees as having taken away his lifestyle and means of making a living. He most probably will not have a lot in the way of supplies such as food and medical equipment, tending to live in the moment and not for the future. He will be one of the opportunistic "I'll just take what I need" types. He will be very cunning, having risen to the top of the street hierarchy,and all the more dangerous because of this.

When dealing with all of the above types, caution is the word. Never let them get even a glimpse of what you have. Never let them get past your outer barrier, be that a fence, abatis or boundary line. Its best to keep verbal contact to the barest minimum. A terse: "We have nothing, go away or we will shoot" is a good example. I have seen them be charming and seemingly harmless while edging into a fence gate or otherwise getting closer until they are in range to strike. You must always remember the 20 foot rule (Never let anyone get closer than 20 feet from you at any time). It is important to remember also that the longer they have been roaming and stealing,the better armed they may be, having stolen others firearms and equipment. Seeing an obvious street thug carrying an expensive scoped rifle or an engraved shotgun should be a tip off as to what they are. These type people would never spend money on a gun that may be taken by the law at anytime in their day to day existence. They do worship Glocks and the glamour they see in them. A dealer told me once, when confessing to an assault "I just outs with my Glock .40 and let it holla" as if he had done something great.

I know that most people who read your blogs are aware enough to keep strangers away from their refuge.But if someone has never lived around these types of people,they may not be aware of just how dangerous they really are. As I mentioned,they can be charming,cunning and decietful.They have lived their entire lives off the goodwill of others and The Government and are past masters at pretending to be needy,harmless and "safe". Guile is engrained in them. I leave you with one short story. In the days after Hurricane Katrina, we were reinforced with officers from other agencies, many states away, who had volunteered to help. (I was not in New Orleans, but on the edge of the hurricane strike) I was partnered with a state SWAT officer from up North. This man was experienced and a "steady hand". As we walked through some of the power blacked-out , sweltering-in-the-heat projects, he turned to me and said: "This is worse than Mogadishu". He was scared and had good reason to be. And this was after only three days of no electricity and relief was just starting to arrive. Think about those same areas after a real failure of services and food deliveries. Good Luck. Beware the Stobor. - Ed S.


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

That was an excellent article and brings up some very good points. Most of us focus on our preps, while others focus on protecting themselves and their families. We have to focus on it all. The easiest way to do this is to make a list of realistic possible scenarios and create a plan for each. Along the way you must discuss what could happen. We all want to feel that with our trusty gun we can scare away all comers, but when the gangs start venturing out, they will approach their own survival like a war. Kill, steal, and whatever else. They could take your daughter or wife as a slave to preform chores (of various types), they may be on a search and destroy mission with no reason for wanted and sensless distruction. Who knows what these people will do or be like, but chances are, they will win if you don't plan for them realistically.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

Good article. Yet another excellent reason to have a combat vet in your 'group', he may not want to shoot, yet he will not hesitate a second to shoot should the need arise.


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

*policemans observation*

Just out of curiosity..if the economy tanked..which would presumably result in mass rioting, killling..Martial Law declared..etc..and law enforcement and military were called in to control the situation(s)..how many do you think would either not show up or leave soon after..I mean most all have families to worry about and such things..looking for a % here..from what I saw on the news several buses were hired by LEO to get them and their families out ..altho they were never used apparently


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

I have sent the article out to severl friends and family members. It may be time to take a look at these possible situations; get this imbedded in our brains so when the time come, we will not be surprised and will be alert to strangers driving into our places. When the cities go down, get ready.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Excellent read and I appreciate the knowledge


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## rflood (Aug 19, 2010)

Sobering article.


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## ZombieHitman (Dec 6, 2010)

*What about the pets?*

Along the same lines of "street urchins" moving out from the cities, it also merits mention that there will be countless abandoned pets that turn feral once they lost their "humans". 
These feral animals will be much more dangerous than wild animals, since they already know that humans are a source of food. 
They will pack together, and use our habit of treating them as pets against us, drawing us in with a false sense of them being tame, then striking once we've gotten within striking distance. 
As a pet owner myself, I can't bear to lose my pup. Not all pet owners feel the same. 
Imagine if you will, German Shepards, trained by the military or law enforcement, turned loose on the streets to fend for themselves. 
Ferocity is an understatement. 
And, they're stealthy too. 
When TSHTF, and everything goes to pot, everyone for themselves, pets will be turned loose to fend for themselves. 
Ponder it.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

ZombieHitman said:


> Along the same lines of "street urchins" moving out from the cities, it also merits mention that there will be countless abandoned pets that turn feral once they lost their "humans".
> These feral animals will be much more dangerous than wild animals, since they already know that humans are a source of food.
> They will pack together, and use our habit of treating them as pets against us, drawing us in with a false sense of them being tame, then striking once we've gotten within striking distance.
> As a pet owner myself, I can't bear to lose my pup. Not all pet owners feel the same.
> ...


After reading the post, it made me realize there's another threat after shtf that I never thought of before. I don't think all of the roaming animals will be abandoned by their owners. A lot of them will be left to wander and hunt for food when their owners are no longer able to feed them, but might still linger around the area where they live.

Although the threat of rabies, lyme disease, etc., has always been there, it's somewhat contained. Most domesticated animals don't roam around in the wild on a regular basis and there are treatments for zoonotic diseases available if needed. It would be a different story in a long term emergency situation. If people can't afford to feed their animals, they're certainly not going to be able to take them to the vet. So not only would there be no or very limited treatments, there would be a huge influx of animals roaming around because their owners didn't prepare in advance.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

I'm honestly not too worried about animals.
a) They don't shoot back.
b) If you get them soon enough, you may be able to make them part of your group and you now have another set of eyes-and-ears as a watch dog.
c) I have a crock-pot and some dutch ovens. I'd expect most animals to be taken as food by the hoards relatively quickly. Dogs, cats, cows, horses... are easier pickings compared to more traditional game animals who know to stay away from people.

Back on subject. Great article. I know it's discussing those that may be coming from urban areas, but it doesn't address the entire chain. From the cities, they'll hit suburbia. In suburbia, there will be the suburbanites that stay and hold their ground and others that bug-out to more rural areas. I wouldn't expect many inner-city dwellers to actually make it to the rural areas. They're way out of their environment and I'd expect most would not venture out that far, at least in the short term. I'd expect the first couple waves of those hitting the rural areas to be displaced suburbanites.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> Letter Re: A Veteran Policeman's Observations on The Golden Horde - SurvivalBlog.com
> Letter Re: A Veteran Policeman's Observations on The Golden Horde
> 
> By James Wesley, Rawles on November 30, 2010 6:41 PM
> ...


your dead nuts on the money HBuck !!!
i used to have a job that forced me to interact with some of these types & man O man they are nothing like any of the people that i know out here in the country. some were black & others were white , i didn't really matter they all thought the world owed them a living & that it should just be handed to them:scratch

to be very honest i would think that the best way to keep these kinds away from you is to offer to shoot them & if they take 1 more step in your direction then let em eat lead! don't worry about the dead body, infact leave it where it fell as a (sign post) the next group of them will see it & search out other prey instead of you & your group. I hate to say it but that is about all many understand, if they know you will kill them they will go away fast

piglett


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## spacestuff4me (Jan 7, 2010)

*Great Article*

Buck,

Awesome post that hits the nail on the head better than any others I've read.

Having spent a lot of time in south central LA and in the riot area from the time it started for 3 days straight, you couldn't be more right. A friend of mine who had a store by Vermont & 51st was executed at a red light by a group of gang members standing on the corner, then he was pulled out of his car, his wallet taken and left in the street like a dog.

While the inner city welfare types and gang scumbags will have to migrate from their hoods if food deliveries stop or power & water are off for longer than a few days, I feel there are enough normal people in the suburbs who will stand up and protect their neighborhoods, like what the Koreans did in LA. Don't forget about the police chief across the river from New Orleans who blocked all black males from 18-50 from crossing the bridge into his city. At first he was villified in the press as a racist, then when it was discovered the allowed injured, sick, women & kids to cross, they never bothered to report the story again. I guess it's just a coincidence that violent crime, drug dealing and property crimes went skyrocketing in the surrounding cities where the Katrina refugees were sent. I'm also guessing in a major emergency, the Federal gov't will be sending aid to the inner cities to keep them from rioting & looting, instead of to the people in the burbs.

Discussing feral dogs, there are indeed quite a few packs of wild dogs roaming the industrial areas of LA and they are a threat to anyone who encounters them. That being said, I don't have any problems adding a feral dog to my menu if the SHTF and these feral dogs will be an endangered species by others who feel the same.

One thing I'd like to add to your brilliant and accurate posting is about drug users. In So Calif areas like the Inland Empire, North San Diego, Riverside, San Bernadino, Victorville, Lancaster/Palmdale and other desert communities, meth-speed-ice and similar named drugs have exploded in use so much as to be considered an epidemic. In these areas it's the white & mexican kids who are cooking & using this garbage and it's THE most destructive drug I've ever seen. Hardcore users are so unpredictable in their behavior, they're so out of their minds, that they will act/react without warning and it's important to keep these insane MF'ers at a distance.

These meth users will literally do anything to get their next hit and they are generally without remorse, compassion, empathy or caring for the pain & devastation they inflict. They are opportunistic parasites who's existence revolves around this horrendous drug and will literally do ANYTHING to buy more. The good part about facing off with a meth user is that they're usually unarmed except with maybe a knife, they're usually not looking for a confrontation unless they're high and they're not in the best physical shape. That said, never trust, never turn your back and never allow anyone who you suspect of using meth near you or your family because you'll be the one who suffers for trusting them.

While the black or mexican gangster / street urchin is a real threat to anyone who encounters them, they usually stay in their own hood to prey on the local population. Now if things get bad and they decide to leave for greener pastures, all bets are off and I don't have any problem in protecting my family & home. With the drug violence along the mexican border incredibly out of control, it's a matter of time till it migrates to the US in a big way. I can easily see parts of the southwest US becoming a lawless 3rd world nation just like mexico and if we don't stop the illegal immigration soon, it may be too late to do anything about it.


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

Spacestuff4me, it sounds like So. Cal isn't a very good place to be already; not when things turn bad. I hope you aren't living to close to some of those places you mentioned. I'm not sure what I'll do when a woman and her children walk up to my gate; or possibly get beyond the gate; looking for food and shelter. They won't be armed, nor will they be threatening. Then what will I do? 

I certainly will not shoot them. Its the druggies and gang members that won't be a problem disposing of; but little kids and young women? Hmmm And that will be a challenge for all of us; when a neighbor we know or someone from church we recognize, or that person who was the cashier at the store or bank, comes to the gate in need of food and shelter.....what then?


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Idaholady said:


> Spacestuff4me, it sounds like So. Cal isn't a very good place to be already; not when things turn bad. I hope you aren't living to close to some of those places you mentioned. I'm not sure what I'll do when a woman and her children walk up to my gate; or possibly get beyond the gate; looking for food and shelter. They won't be armed, nor will they be threatening. Then what will I do?
> 
> I certainly will not shoot them. Its the druggies and gang members that won't be a problem disposing of; but little kids and young women? Hmmm And that will be a challenge for all of us; when a neighbor we know or someone from church we recognize, or that person who was the cashier at the store or bank, comes to the gate in need of food and shelter.....what then?


That's when those extra buckets of rice come in handy..if the Lord can provide for me to have rice...I can provide for the children..we know it's coming.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

JayJay said:


> That's when those extra buckets of rice come in handy..if the Lord can provide for me to have rice...I can provide for the children..we know it's coming.


 are you really going to try to feed 1000 kids??? you will be out of food in a day or 2. then you get to starve to death along with them. you may want to rethink that plan you have there.

sorry to be harsh but if the SHTF the world we live in will be much more harsh

piglett


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

piglett said:


> are you really going to try to feed 1000 kids??? you will be out of food in a day or 2. then you get to starve to death along with them. you may want to rethink that plan you have there.
> 
> sorry to be harsh but if the SHTF the world we live in will be much more harsh
> 
> piglett


Nahh..Piglet, but I'm sure I will feed those on this street---I do know that I will hand the containers through the door/they will not get in my house....we have 4 weapons so are ready to defend what we have.

Depending on the disaster--if we don't have long to live,...I will give meat and goods away...

Piglet, my husband and I have no family...there are worse things than dying..we have talked a lot about this and know what we're doing.

"the will of God will never take you where the grace of God will not protect you"


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

Very good, sobering article.
I have wondered about the druggies, once they cannot get their fix, will they kill theirselves in withdrawl. Even if they steal things, their supply will be suddenly cut off - at any price.

Yes, Francon, let's not forget that - and that is a short fuse that is totally unpredictable. 

JayJay, wish you luck with that. Once the hordes find out where you are and you have what they need may the Lord watch over you. Good intentions, but as for me, I'll try to lay as low as possible. :dunno:

bczoom - shame on you, planning on eating someone's pet. shame shame, (ps do you have any good receipes for cat?) :sssh:

My concern is what if anything will trigger a social collapse. If it is a very gradual thing, such as an economic collapse as happened in Germany after WWI these things may not play out this way.
If it is a disaster such as Katrina, earthquake, etc. we had better look out this could very well be how it plays out.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Hubby and I have discussed this and have a plan to put together small ration packs to distribute for children. My heart breaks for those without the awareness to be prepared for themselves and their children, I know we can't feed them all and that is something we pray about daily. I finially got my brother-in-law on board by reminding him his grandchildren would be looking to him for shelter and food when the balloon goes up. May God give us the strength to do what must be done.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Clarice said:


> Hubby and I have discussed this and have a plan to put together small ration packs to distribute for children. My heart breaks for those without the awareness to be prepared for themselves and their children, I know we can't feed them all and that is something we pray about daily. I finially got my brother-in-law on board by reminding him his grandchildren would be looking to him for shelter and food when the balloon goes up. May God give us the strength to do what must be done.


Sober thoughts Clarice... I truly can't say what I will do...my husband says I will shell out small packages too for those needing it...I'm just lucky to be sort of in a rural area, we can a lot and I know of someone who has ordered a HUGE propane gas tank(swapped the smaller one), had it filled and is using only electricity...so I'm NOT the only one on this street that sees what's coming!!
I buy my preps mostly 30 miles away, pull into the garage to unload, have an 8 X 8 foot pantry and several unused closets.

I just do not know...like I said, if the disaster is terminal, I will give what I have to those who will live through it if I don't/.....

There are worse things than dying.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Good artical*

This is an accurate discription of the people you will have to worry about. As a former Deputy Sheriff I can tell you that everything HBuck says is so.

Better be asking yourself now, Am I ready touse violence and leathal force?

In a situation like HBuck decribes, you will not be able to go out and talk to these people. You may want a Bull horn to warn them on their way and you had better be ready to back it up with some buckshot.

Here is a couple of defencive things that may help.

Make some signs that say :

"Bloodborn Pathigen Protection Required."
Active AID'S Paitents inside

Go ahead and dig a couple of graves in your yard. About six inches deep and mound up the dirt so they look real. Put up a crude sign over each grave that says "Looter".

You will need a 24 hour guard. A dog is good but don't depend on him. You need a man on the gun. He needs to be awake, alert and out out veiw.

If you are alone , you need an alarm system . Monofiliment line can be used to set tripwires to trigger an audauble alarm. If you need a silent alarm to wake you use the trip wire to trigger a small can of water to spill on your face.

If you are alone you will have to sleep in a hidden location.

Put a dummy in the bed 1


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

BillM said:


> This is an accurate discription of the people you will have to worry about. As a former Deputy Sheriff I can tell you that everything HBuck says is so.
> 
> Better be asking yourself now, Am I ready touse violence and leathal force?
> 
> ...


I was thinking of ordering those loud sound makers that alert you when the doors are jarred??

Any ideas what to do with them to let us know someone is near??

Because if used like intended, and they're at the door, it's too late!!

Well, low and behold---hey Bill, we are verwy verwy close in distance...


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I wish I had answers for a lot of the questions yawl are asking.. like alarms etc... I do have some ideas but just won't get into them here.. I would say go to Amazon and search for military field manuals.. things like Improvised booby traps and other such things.. there are a lot of things you can make.. things that shoot flares.. or go bang... or go boom with results... 

I once conceived of the idea of a place on a hill with the top dozed flat and the over burdon used to make earthen walls that would make seeing inside impossible.. can't see in , can't sniper you.. guard bunkers on the corners with fighting holes in the berm... work inside with no problems.. attackers running up hill have problems.. as an old Marine said to me.. "ALWAYS" take and hold the high ground! if you don't your gonna be the poor SOB having to fight your way up there...... very true... if you never saw the movie Hamburger Hill I think your should... based on a true battle in the VN war... er ..uh ..police action...

But none of this is easy.. or cheap.. so best just plan using what you have.. but a last stand bunker is for sure a good plan.. something to hard to crack for a bunch of MZB's... 

Read them field manuals!!.. 

OH.. and ya might wanna buy some black powder... for blowing stumps yanno... it does come in handy...


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## humanoddity (Jan 31, 2011)

This made me think of a few things I thought I'd ramble about. I live out of the city limits in a nice neighborhood, small town. Most places in town I feel comfortable going. But, there is a big part of town you know that you just DON'T go because it's a place described in the OP. (When I first moved here and had no idea, I drove alone down there looking for yard sales! ) I scared myself silly.

Here are some things I have personally encountered which I took as a possible security threat (and others have thought was a crazy assumption.) It might be something to think about though.

On more than one occasion, I have had a man knock at my door, and I hate to stereotype, but he's usually a scruffy looking black man, and he tells me he has meat in his truck for sale.

#1 I can't see his truck from my door. 
#2 I'm not buying meat from a truck. 
#3 I'm not giving out money for an item to a person I don't know in my home.

I get the "well, how about I get a box from my truck and I can bring it in and show you the quality?" NOPE. Now, this could be a legitimate man trying to make a legitimate living. BUT, he could also be wanting access to my home to scope it out...where's the TV...where's the bedroom...and so on. For that matter, he could rob me on the spot.

I also dislike the same type of persons asking if they could do some landscaping for me and ask if they can go in my backyard so they can quote me a price. NOPE. Believe it or not, they have actually asked to speak to the man of the home if I say no and I'm always home alone...that sets me on red alert and I say "yeah, but he's watching TV."

I'm an equal opportunity door closer. I have religious people or politicians come to my door and they don't get an invite in come rain nor shine. I keep it cracked with my dog growling through the crack and tell them no thanks. I've reached the point where I usually don't even bother opening the door anymore.

In this day and time, people can and do have ulterior motives. I'm not a paranoid person, just cautious. Some of my family consider me as being "rude" because I didn't at least invite them into the doorway...after all, this is the South and we have all of that good hospitality here.

I've had 3 cars broken into in my driveway while I was asleep within the past year. I have plenty of reason to be cautious.


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Thats the way to do it..trust no one you dont know..I expanded my dog pen to come around the front of the house and front door..because I was getting folks from the "projects" and a "halfway" house waking me up at 1am wanting to perform sexual favors for money..that fixed that problem..I just use my back door anyway as my truck is parked there in the back...and if someone knocks late on the backdoor..I have a 9mm in my hand behind my back..because to knock on my backdoor they have to transgress my enclosed back porch..I dont know if I would be justified in shooting them according to the Castle Law..being in my enclosed porch..and I sure dont want to shoot someone over that...but they wont take me by surprise anyway..thats all I can do I guess


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

azurevirus said:


> Thats the way to do it..trust no one you dont know..I expanded my dog pen to come around the front of the house and front door..because I was getting folks from the "projects" and a "halfway" house waking me up at 1am wanting to perform sexual favors for money..that fixed that problem..I just use my back door anyway as my truck is parked there in the back...and if someone knocks late on the backdoor..I have a 9mm in my hand behind my back..because to knock on my backdoor they have to transgress my enclosed back porch..I dont know if I would be justified in shooting them according to the Castle Law..being in my enclosed porch..and I sure dont want to shoot someone over that...but they wont take me by surprise anyway..thats all I can do I guess


An eight year old disappeared yesterday in a community of about 1000? only 20 miles from my area and they found her in the woods soon after ...blunt force trauma killed her.

Keep your loved ones close to you and keep all doors locked.

Evil is everywhere.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

We have made it a policy not to open our door to anyone we don't know. We speak thru the door with gun in hand. We do have a large dog (boxer) that is always with us when we are outside and a gun close by. You can never be too careful. We don't live in fear just aware of the dangers that could be lurking.


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## BizzyB (Dec 10, 2010)

Bear with me here as I intend to be a little provocative on this topic and I'm going to use this map to do it. The numbers are a little dated, but for this discussion let's assume that the situation is as bad or worse than it was in '09.

The first time I read the OP re the Golden Horde, it was an upsetting thing to contemplate. Then I thought on it and made a list of assumptions that were bothering me.

Assumptions:

1. The segment of the population that depends on welfare and food assistance will be the the first wave of desperates when the spigot runs dry.
2. The early desperates will resort to violence to secure their survival.
3. The early desparates live in the cities.
4. They will leave the cities in search of resources.
5. Beyond the ring of suburbs is a safe place called Rural Areas. 
6. If you live in the Rural Areas, you will have a period of time between the SHTF and the arrival of the golden horde to either bug-out or fortify your location.
7. If you don't live in the Rural Areas, you should bug out there just as quickly as possible.

Assumptions 1 and 2 I think are pretty solid. Now click the link to the map and rethink assumption 3. Even in my rural-ish county almost 10% are on food assistance. When you look at the really rural areas -- the Appalachians, the Ozarks, even the hinterland of Survivaltopia (ID and MT) has pockets of high dependence on assistance -- you'll see dependance rates that rival the reviled cities. So what. The population densities are much lower in these supposedly rural areas but the numbers add up fast when you start calculating if 10%, 20%, or 30+% of your neighbors live on hand-outs. Yes, desperates live in the cities, but odds are good that fair number of desperates not only live near you, but you live on their turf.

Now, assumption 4. If, as the States go bankrupt, gut pensions and lay more gov't workers off, the public assistance rolls will swell at the same time they'll be least able to assist. If relief operations (Fed or private) get set up, where will they go? To the cities because that's where most of the hungry people will be. I believe people will stick around the cities because of the normalcy bias. They will stick to what is familiar - their own turf - and murder and rob on their own. As long as there is hope of a bread line, there won't be a big motivation to go to the unfamiliar Rural Areas and maraud on someone else's turf. At least not until the charity runs out.

So who will show up at your doorstep first? The Golden Horde from the nearest city or the guy three properties over who, like the average Urban Thug, is the product of generations of learned helplessness, entitlement, and dependancy who is probably equally hungry, equally armed, a better shot than the Urban Thug, and knows exactly where you live. Plus he doesn't have to walk as far to get to you. Assumption 5 is false. Assumption 6 is false. In many ways, it will be no safer than the city and you won't have as much time as you think to either bug out or gear up. My threat assessment is more focused on the den of meth-heads 5 miles over where 22% of the so-called population lives below the poverty line and the effect the no-so-slow economic crush will have on it. Scary place, and it's as rural as can be. Pay attention to your neighbors. Don't overlook the trees for the forest because the tree nearest you can poke your eye out.

Sorry to be so pessimistic and long-winded. This has been much on my mind lately. Feedback appreciated.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

BizzyB said:


> Bear with me here as I intend to be a little provocative on this topic and I'm going to use this map to do it. The numbers are a little dated, but for this discussion let's assume that the situation is as bad or worse than it was in '09.
> 
> The first time I read the OP re the Golden Horde, it was an upsetting thing to contemplate. Then I thought on it and made a list of assumptions that were bothering me.
> 
> ...


I was shocked when I looked at that map... The road just got rougher simply because knowing something more then you did changes things a great deal.. We live in a rural area and while it's not as rural as I'd like it is still well off the beaten path..

*All good points...BUT*

My plan is to not hunker down and wait.. I plan to be out and about.. out of sight but watching..I'd rather have a fire fight away from the home place then at the gate.. also too a pack of zombies a shot from the woods that drops one of them just might make them back off and head on down the road.. even more so if they don't hear the shot..

I've always believed in taking the fight to the enemy , defending ones place can be done from a ways out .. if they insist on coming ahead the drop another one... in the mean time communicate with your people and they should be trained to move out part way and get into pre located fighting positions.. these things are not hard to do and if need be fight a slow withdrawal fight.. once your in your main location then they are really going to pay... but there should be some stay behinds to hit and run from behind.. nothing ruins the will to fight then seeing the one next to you lose his head from a shot nobody heard and from behind..

I won't get into the party treats that should be awaiting these invaders ...buy the military training manuals.. study them, buy the stuff that's called for.. do it now...

Hint.. a bread pan , a food saver vac sealer , black powder and some nice rocks and old chopped up rusty nails can do a lot... but the time to learn is now not when the lions at the gate.. ..

Hint.. ever see those big rubber bands used to throw a water balloon two streets over?? not much difference in a water balloon and a pint jar filled with home made Napalm is there... ?... how far can it go?.. glass jar... fuze taped to it.. light fuze ...shoot.....

These are just things that pop into my head.. I'm not telling you to do this because it would be against some law.. just saying ..yanno?

Always be responsible and law abiding and report your nasty neighbors to the proper Gov agency... be nice..play well with others and never run with the scissors..:flower::2thumb::ignore:eep:

All the information in the world is right at your finger tips.... PLUS... use your head... think... it will amaze you what you can come up with.. study the results of the guerrilla fighting in the Philippines during ww2... I mention this because the Americans who didn't allow themselves to be surrendered joined native fighters and made do with a lot of home made stuff...

The VC did not invent punji stakes , in the fight for PI they planted them in the deep grass by the trails pointing at the trail.. somebody opened fire and the Japs would dive off the trail and meet a nasty end.. thus arming a lot of people with all their gear...

look up toe poppers..

all this stuff is on line and it's not against the law to read...YET!!... find it print it off a , store it but prep for the need...


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

This is the new me....they had the same opportunity and maybe MORE resouces than I...they should have been acting responsibly and storing for their loved ones; cut off the boob tube..it's not free..run errands once a week with a list of needs; buy only needs, not wants...yep, they didn't act responsibly, did they??
Their grocery items had the same price tags each week as mine did.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

*the best bunker*



HozayBuck said:


> I wish I had answers for a lot of the questions yawl are asking.. like alarms etc... I do have some ideas but just won't get into them here.. I would say go to Amazon and search for military field manuals.. things like Improvised booby traps and other such things.. there are a lot of things you can make.. things that shoot flares.. or go bang... or go boom with results...
> 
> I once conceived of the idea of a place on a hill with the top dozed flat and the over burdon used to make earthen walls that would make seeing inside impossible.. can't see in , can't sniper you.. guard bunkers on the corners with fighting holes in the berm... work inside with no problems.. attackers running up hill have problems.. as an old Marine said to me.. "ALWAYS" take and hold the high ground! if you don't your gonna be the poor SOB having to fight your way up there...... very true... if you never saw the movie Hamburger Hill I think your should... based on a true battle in the VN war... er ..uh ..police action...
> 
> ...


the best bunker is the one that can't be found!!!!!

piglett


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## Halfpint (Jan 23, 2011)

I would suggest that you should consider a few options other than defending your home to the end. One might consider at least two Hid Sites. It’s define as a small hidden location with about 2 days’ food, water, clothing and emergency medical and weapon with ammo (22cal type). The equipment can be hidden in PVC. You must pick out some type of shelter location ahead of time. There is a need to check from time to time to insure it is still there. I would suggest at least one Mission Support Site (MSS). This is a bigger site with about 30 days of emergency supplies. More is better. This would be hidden but it would give you a fresh start just in case you have to do a restart. You can NOT defend a soft target with limited people. You are best to have a fall back location and your supplies not centrally located. I believed in being stocked with fire power BUT if you have to go get it your wrong and you can’t carry everything with you. Have a backup plan for the backup plan and never let your ego cost you your life. Think outside the box. In another life I found that a fake wall in a storage building with emergency supplies (Hide Site) and the rest full of crap got me thru 6 days till I could get things situated to leave. Trust no one and always do a good background on yourself. It’s real hard to walk away from what you spent your life building but you must have a plan to leave then reoccupy. I might be run off my place but I won’t be without.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

ZombieHitman said:


> Along the same lines of "street urchins" moving out from the cities, it also merits mention that there will be countless abandoned pets that turn feral once they lost their "humans".


We're already seeing this happen here. So many people are losing their jobs, and the local animal shelters have no space...so, they drive to the outskirts, dump off their animals and leave 'em there.

The ones that survive will turn out to be the most dangerous.

These days, I don't go anywhere (even church!) unarmed.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It was an informative article. I don't expect a mass of people leaving for the sticks. I think most of them will stay in the city. They'll prey on each other. Some will head for the suburbs because people there are likely to have what they need. Maybe 1% or less head for the sticks. I live about 100 from Milwaukee. I don't expect those people to be a problem here. After the collapse I won't be opening the door for anyone. Anyone trying to break in will be shot.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Ill have to agree. I think that the lowest of the low wont be the ones necessarily heading out to the sticks. Theyll see an opportunity to rule the cities. they wont want to go out to the sticks to live in the country, because they will be scared of it. Whats a rural environment to a city bred thug? Scary backwoods Deliverance type stuff.
While yes, they will be the most desparate, they will also be the the ones least able to deal with the situation. almost all of the people described in the article will not be willing or able to make it out of the city. they may make it out to my burbs, but to have the wherewithal to make it to the country? I doubt it.

that map is prety scary. just picking some random blue site, there are counties where 30% of the people are on food stamps/ how is that even possible? its clear I am also woefully ignorant on exactly how 'rural' some of these places are. counties with populations in the couple of thousands,with 40% on food stamps?
no offense intended to all the rural folks out there, hell, our plan is to be one of those when the girl retires, but i can barely imagine tha scenario. i live in the dc burbs, and you have to go pretty far out to get to e county with less than 100k people.
i would hpe that most of those 'rural' people on food stamps know more about prepping than the average city dwelling thug mentioned in the article.

i just dont think those lowlifes the guy is presenting will make it out of the city into the country. certainly some will, but the drug addicts and most of the others just wouldnt make it.

sorry for the grammar, im out at my proposed bol in wv on my laptop. i prefer to spend most weekends out here. in the country.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I have to agree completely with the original poster. However, something else to consider is that the original poster was generalizing the city dwelling criminal element; i would put forward the idea that a good chunk of "law abiding citizens" are on the fence and would easily fall to the marauding side in a very short period of time. So, (just throwing out some round numbers here) if half of the slum dwellers fit into the criminal category, another third would easily fall to that side, that leaves less than twenty percent of the people left who are decent human beings. 

With that in mind, if I were unsure of the person approaching me, asking for aid, and I had a bad feeling about them... I figure i've got a better than 80% chance of being right if I blow them away to protect my family. I can accept those odds, how about you guys?


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Turtle said:


> So, (just throwing out some round numbers here) if half of the slum dwellers fit into the criminal category, another third would easily fall to that side, that leaves less than twenty percent of the people left who are decent human beings.
> 
> With that in mind, if I were unsure of the person approaching me, asking for aid, and I had a bad feeling about them... I figure i've got a better than 80% chance of being right if I blow them away to protect my family. I can accept those odds, how about you guys?


I think that's about right. :gaah:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Turtle said:


> I have to agree completely with the original poster. However, something else to consider is that the original poster was generalizing the city dwelling criminal element; i would put forward the idea that a good chunk of "law abiding citizens" are on the fence and would easily fall to the marauding side in a very short period of time. So, (just throwing out some round numbers here) if half of the slum dwellers fit into the criminal category, another third would easily fall to that side, that leaves less than twenty percent of the people left who are decent human beings.
> 
> With that in mind, if I were unsure of the person approaching me, asking for aid, and I had a bad feeling about them... I figure i've got a better than 80% chance of being right if I blow them away to protect my family. I can accept those odds, how about you guys?


And you'll still have people who are normally law-abiding but their kids are crying because they're hungry and they don't have any food. Desperate people will do desperate things.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

BillS said:


> It was an informative article. I don't expect a mass of people leaving for the sticks. I think most of them will stay in the city. They'll prey on each other. Some will head for the suburbs because people there are likely to have what they need. Maybe 1% or less head for the sticks. I live about 100 from Milwaukee. I don't expect those people to be a problem here. After the collapse I won't be opening the door for anyone. Anyone trying to break in will be shot.


I am six hours from New Orleans, and our town was so full you couldn't get through it. All food parking lots full, store parking lots full, gas parking lots full, people sleeping in or on thier vehicles. Motels topped out long before that. Kicking in doors and robbing people here. Next time that kind of thing happens, the help just won't be here for them.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

Turtle said:


> I have to agree completely with the original poster. However, something else to consider is that the original poster was generalizing the city dwelling criminal element; i would put forward the idea that a good chunk of "law abiding citizens" are on the fence and would easily fall to the marauding side in a very short period of time. So, (just throwing out some round numbers here) if half of the slum dwellers fit into the criminal category, another third would easily fall to that side, that leaves less than twenty percent of the people left who are decent human beings.
> 
> With that in mind, if I were unsure of the person approaching me, asking for aid, and I had a bad feeling about them... I figure i've got a better than 80% chance of being right if I blow them away to protect my family. I can accept those odds, how about you guys?


There was a couple around here that I would shoot on site if I happened to run up on them in the woods and they had a gun too. One had been in twice for murder. That was a few years ago. In the near future, you will probably be better off to "ground check" them. Check their ID so you will at least know who you shot. I promise I ain't takin no chances. I feel like I am going to be dangerous. I feel a dangerous episode coming on.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I heard on the news last night about the looting going on in Texas where whole subdivisions were burned by the wildfires. The homeowners have set up their own road blocks into their neighborhoods and no one comes in without their vehicle being photographed and tag # taken down. These people doing the looting are not desperate, just mean. God help us when times do get desperate.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

Clarice said:


> I heard on the news last night about the looting going on in Texas where whole subdivisions were burned by the wildfires. The homeowners have set up their own road blocks into their neighborhoods and no one comes in without their vehicle being photographed and tag # taken down. These people doing the looting are not desperate, just mean. God help us when times do get desperate.


Yeah, we had a little "Toranada" around here that destroyed a lot. It was unbellievable how many people showed up to loot. Old folks too. You couldn't hardly run them off except with a club or a gun. It didn't hurt my things but I was just up the road where a friend was. Anyways, I belonged there and he did too, but a lot of people showed up that didn't belong there. Were going all through the woods on somebody elses property to see what they could pick up. It was crazy.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

Clarice said:


> I heard on the news last night about the looting going on in Texas where whole subdivisions were burned by the wildfires. The homeowners have set up their own road blocks into their neighborhoods and no one comes in without their vehicle being photographed and tag # taken down. These people doing the looting are not desperate, just mean. God help us when times do get desperate.


i guess there will be a bunch of dead bodies in the ditch, well it's really up to them & if that's how they want it then i guess they mite just get it.:gaah:
make sure you have lots of ammo & everyone in your household knows how to shoot

take care all
piglett


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Never allow*



Turtle said:


> I have to agree completely with the original poster. However, something else to consider is that the original poster was generalizing the city dwelling criminal element; i would put forward the idea that a good chunk of "law abiding citizens" are on the fence and would easily fall to the marauding side in a very short period of time. So, (just throwing out some round numbers here) if half of the slum dwellers fit into the criminal category, another third would easily fall to that side, that leaves less than twenty percent of the people left who are decent human beings.
> 
> With that in mind, if I were unsure of the person approaching me, asking for aid, and I had a bad feeling about them... I figure i've got a better than 80% chance of being right if I blow them away to protect my family. I can accept those odds, how about you guys?


Never allow anyone you have a bad feeling about , to approach you 
unchallenged.

That is a rule I apply right now.

It is especially applicable to women and children.

No abductor or mugger wants to start trouble from a distance.

They want to get close first so they can control you.

Never give them this oppertunity unchallenged.

The down side is you risk being rude to someone you don't know.

The up side is you prevent the altercation from starting to begin with.

I'll take those odds any time!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BillM: 

Excellent rules to follow. :melikey::2thumb::2thumb: Anything you can do to keep the odds in your favor may as you say seem rude to some, but the bottom line is your survival. 

As far as offending someone or hurting their feelings in challenging them, oh well :dunno: "You have to break eggs to make an omelette".


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

With the powers that be stirring up their dependants against the rest of us ;the indoctrnated self loathing kids ; the hundred million anti-American immigrants ;a military now run by homosexuals and other libs we are in serious trouble.
They are just about ready to start the civil war that bring them to absolute rule over the whole earth. 
Enjoy all your days and prep for the coming chaos.Gt close to yur maker because they own your body ,preserve your soul.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

I think when all this does start, it will be advisable to disappear for at least two months, and let all the unprepared and ignorants sort themselves out. Maybe even three months. I am meaning to hole up and stay off the radar during this time. Under the radar will not be good enough. It will be easier to just be gone and not hear the sad stories or listen to somebody trying to talk me into something I don't want to do. No use doing all the fighting. Most fights, both parties get injured, and this won't be any time to get injured. Amatuers think about tactics. Experienced think about logistics. I can't walk good with a shot leg, no matter how crafty I fought in that fight I won.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

One thing the original post doesn't take into account is the time of year of the collapse and how that affects where you are. I would think that if the collapse happens in July and you live in Arizona there are going to be a lot of people dying without air conditioning. If the collapse happens on New Year's Day and you live in Chicago most of the people will freeze to death before they can get out of the city. Can you imagine living in Buffalo, New York and having a big snow storm at the same time the power goes out?


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

BillM said:


> The down side is you risk being rude to someone you don't know.
> 
> The up side is you prevent the altercation from starting to begin with.
> 
> I'll take those odds any time!


risk assessment... approved :2thumb:

I need the audio clips from ED-209 (robocop)

"*You are illegally parked on private property. You must move your vehicle. You have 20 seconds to comply*." 

:lolsmash:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree that it would be foolish to let someone you don't know or have a bad feeling about get too close before challenging them. DH and I have both been blessed with being able to read people. If they won't look you in the eye, watch out. Most people who are lying to you will look down and to the left as they speak.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

My life brings me in contact with the "horde" several times a week.My walking stick would crush a bull's skull,I'm not bothered.

But

Being crippled and on the poor side,I can't run away.I'll be thinning the ranks for you guys south of Chattanooga until they get me.if you're out scavving and find a dead body under a big pile of brass,that's me.drop a flower.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

Magus said:


> My life brings me in contact with the "horde" several times a week.My walking stick would crush a bull's skull,I'm not bothered.
> 
> But
> 
> Being crippled and on the poor side,I can't run away.I'll be thinning the ranks for you guys south of Chattanooga until they get me.if you're out scavving and find a dead body under a big pile of brass,that's me.drop a flower.


we will be able to tell what kind of person you were by the size of the brass pile. 

piglett


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Never underestimate the country peoples city slicker relatives .
Many will be heading for the hills 'so to speak'at first sign of hunger. Most on't be able to turn their kin folks away,even if they are thugs or thuggetts.
Once they eat them out of house and home,they will be eyeballing their neighbors places.
People are not stupid and they will know where the food is.
I thought about a boat,but wtshtf it will be pirates dreamland on the waters.Already many boats docked in the bay are robbed ,dingys stolen.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

piglett said:


> we will be able to tell what kind of person you were by the size of the brass pile.
> 
> piglett


Big enough to bury me. duh? LOL


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

Magus said:


> Big enough to bury me. duh? LOL


:2thumb::2thumb::2thumb:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Coffin big enough*

About 35 years ago I worked for a hospital engineering department.

One day I and a co-worker were enjoying a coffee break when the local county coroner walked in and asked ,"Bill can I get you and Garland to help me for a few miniuts?"

I said sure and Garland and I followed him to the hospital morgue.

He had a woman on the slab that weighed in at about 480 lbs. He explained that he was afraid he would drop the body transferring it from the slab to his gurney.

The coroner and I each got at one end and Garland , (Who was about 63 at 240 lbs got in the center), and we transferred her to the gurney.

Garland then asks where the coroner is going to get a coffin that she will fit in .

The coroner replied that he probably already had one in his warehouse, stating that he could get a coffin to fit anyone.

Garland , ( feeling his oats a little ), puffs up his chest and says "I bet you can't get me to fit in a coffin?

The coroner with out hesitation says, "Garland, I'd just give you an enema and bury you in a shoe box !"


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## rextex (Sep 14, 2011)

Thanks for the post! It certainly reminds you of the need for security,


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Something I'd like to point out*

*We all talk about how the BG's are so bad now and how bad it will be after the SHTF... but what most of you aren't taking into consideration is that the reason there are so many creeps ( term used in place of A$$holes) is simply that we the good folks ( well some of us are  ) are not getting involved due to all the legal crap the courts pile on...

I can assure you that when the old Balloon goes up the punks, creeps "AH's" will be dropping like flies in a cold snap the only reason they are able to flourish now is because we decent folks ain't started shooting the bastards yet..

Evil can only exist where decent peoples either will not act or are not "allowed" to act.. I can assure you all that when the time comes I will deal with the ones who come to do wrong..big or small wrongs..all the same...

Notice how when it came up to arm airline pilots there was a loud out cry from the unions? what's wrong with a pilot being armed? when is the last time an Israeli plane was hi-jacked... ? America has become a nation of whining milksops ..fortunately when the SHTF those wimps will die off as fast as the punks..

This great Nation was not settled by the wimps and milk toast types..they came later to feed off the rest... it's just been against the law to shoot them...but soon that will change!! and that is a good thing!!..

If we get our country back I hope we will make sure our children don't let it happen again *


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*nearly everyone will be a looter.*

not one person in 1000 is or will be adequately prepared, so what choices will they have? this emphatically includes your neighbors, people. There will be no horde, because they wont find enough gasoline, women food or other loot to maintain a group of any size, so they will fight amongst themselves in short order, and break into smaller groups. It's not the 1000+ mass that you need to worry about, it's the hundreds of gangs of 6-10 men and a few women that you must fear, because each of such groups is likely to make you consume 50 rds or more, and the junk guns they are likely to have lying beside them in death will be of little or no help to you, later, either.


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## Calista (Oct 6, 2011)

Living in a rural area that has its share of druggies, feral children and pets, and broken families on the long-term dole, hubby and I have been careful to blend into the neighborhood as a pair of childless, cranky old geezers in retirement who just want to be left alone. This approach, along with the layers of fences, gates, OPSEC, "NO SOLICITORS" signs, and non-interaction has worked well for us. (Guess there's something to be said for having no other family or close friends to worry about, too. We're pretty much loners. We don't have visitors over to our house EVER, which I know won't work for most people.)

True Story: A good-guy neighbor we've come to know said he found a young, prosperous-looking family of four -- Mom, Dad, and two pre-teen boys -- sitting at the picnic bench in his side pasture one weekend day when he got home from the feed store, just eating their sandwiches and watching the horses like they were in a public park. Our neighbor accosted them incredulously, asking if they'd seen the "No Trespassing" signs at the open gate, and the husband said (with no apologies), "What's the big deal? You weren't using it and we'll be gone in a little bit." 

THIS is the kind of entitlement thinking that scares me the most, no matter where the "Golden Horde" is coming from -- the city OR down the lane.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

lickit said:


> not one person in 1000 is or will be adequately prepared, so what choices will they have? this emphatically includes your neighbors, people. There will be no horde, because they wont find enough gasoline, women food or other loot to maintain a group of any size, so they will fight amongst themselves in short order, and break into smaller groups. It's not the 1000+ mass that you need to worry about, it's the hundreds of gangs of 6-10 men and a few women that you must fear, because each of such groups is likely to make you consume 50 rds or more, and the junk guns they are likely to have lying beside them in death will be of little or no help to you, later, either.


I sure don't know any more about this than anyone else, but I envision a different scenario.

IMHO, a "trigger" event of some sort will spark massive riots in the cities. Thousands of "entitlers" will burn many US cities and slaughter thousands -- maybe tens of thousands of innocent people. Only the toughest of the toughest (and best prepared) on both sides will survive.

Then the really bad thing happens.......An iron-fisted authoritarian US government will gradually gain control of the country utilizing overwhelming military firepower via emergency powers, and we'll likely end up ruled by a dictator or an oligarchy that will effectively void the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights (for our own safety, of course).

The circle of life. History repeats itself because we humans never learn the lessons of our ancestors.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

horseman09 said:


> History repeats itself because we humans never learn the lessons of our ancestors.


Amen to that.


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## pdxr13 (Oct 6, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Nahh..Piglet, but I'm sure I will feed those on this street---I do know that I will hand the containers through the door/they will not get in my house....we have 4 weapons so are ready to defend what we have.
> 
> Depending on the disaster--if we don't have long to live,...I will give meat and goods away...
> 
> ...


I appreciate the sentiment of not wanting the truly needy starve and die in the cold. The way to help with this problem is by using local churches with food bank/shelters. Donate your surplus to the shelter (after knowing ahead of time that they can prepare the food and have fuel) and direct refugees to the church. Tell refugees that approach that you have nothing except this cold house (that shows no electric light and makes no engine noises or smoke) but there is a church shelter over there with hot food and clean water. "Little George ate over there on Saturday and said there was enough, and it was hot". Having printed instructions and a quarter-sheet map (just one at a time per group, crumpled and used, not a stack freshly printed) to hand out should get them moving on. No need to threaten overtly beyond packing a holstered pistol or a shouldered rifle (unless they do), just nothing here to keep honest folks fed or housed.

Ask about anyone advertising gasoline, or hens, for sale or trade. "We sure could use 5 gallons of gasoline or Diesel, an' I got my own can". "My boys are real strong and hard workers with their own shovels/boots/gloves". Strictly poverty disinformation for the traveling gossip mill.

This strategy has been extensively discussed at Jim Rawles' survivalblog site. Search "Christian Charity".

Cheers.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

pdxr13 said:


> I appreciate the sentiment of not wanting the truly needy starve and die in the cold. The way to help with this problem is by using local churches with food bank/shelters. Donate your surplus to the shelter (after knowing ahead of time that they can prepare the food and have fuel) and direct refugees to the church. Tell refugees that approach that you have nothing except this cold house (that shows no electric light and makes no engine noises or smoke) but there is a church shelter over there with hot food and clean water. "Little George ate over there on Saturday and said there was enough, and it was hot". Having printed instructions and a quarter-sheet map (just one at a time per group, crumpled and used, not a stack freshly printed) to hand out should get them moving on. No need to threaten overtly beyond packing a holstered pistol or a shouldered rifle (unless they do), just nothing here to keep honest folks fed or housed.
> 
> Ask about anyone advertising gasoline, or hens, for sale or trade. "We sure could use 5 gallons of gasoline or Diesel, an' I got my own can". "My boys are real strong and hard workers with their own shovels/boots/gloves". Strictly poverty disinformation for the traveling gossip mill.
> 
> ...


Whoa---what surplus?? who knows or can even imagine how long this collapse, as is stated from the IMF today is surely coming, will last??
So, how can anyone feel they have a surplus?? If the SHTF as I see it---churches will NOT be prepared to feed multitudes without electricity.
These churches within 3-12 miles of my home are not prepping..don't know the term...and will not be taking my food to prepare for those suffering.
I see a collapse differently--you're assuming you will have gas to go to these egg producers' homes--my gas saved will be precious--not used in verbal games with idiots. Sorry, if this comes as rude--my outlook is more dismal than yours?? I do have bags of rice ready for emergencies, but noone is getting into my home.

"""""Strictly poverty disinformation for the traveling gossip mill.""""" assuming your neighbors don't know you well---not the case here----we watch each other cut their hedges.

I like Jim Rawles' Survival blog..but he doesn't have all the answers.

Did Noah send his preps to the community?? *No, because he had no way of knowing how long the need to feed his family would be and prepared accordingly. * And God closed the door to the ark, not Noah.
And those that entered, male and female of all flesh, went in as God had commanded him [Noah]. And the LORD shut him in. (Genesis 7:16)


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

One post says: True Story: A good-guy neighbor we've come to know said he found a young, prosperous-looking family of four -- Mom, Dad, and two pre-teen boys -- sitting at the picnic bench in his side pasture one weekend day when he got home from the feed store, just eating their sandwiches and watching the horses like they were in a public park. Our neighbor accosted them incredulously, asking if they'd seen the "No Trespassing" signs at the open gate, and the husband said (with no apologies), "What's the big deal? You weren't using it and we'll be gone in a little bit." 

See, that's gonna be the problem...in most parts of the country, and to that land owner, it was trespassing; in my part of the country, we sit down with that family, share a sandwich, and treat them like they may be Jesus...cause you don't know that that family may have been living out of their car, and that was their last meal...had no way of knowing where the next one was coming from.
Christ-like has become a thing of the past--Lord help me to remember those less fortunate than me on this day, for I have been there many times.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> *We all talk about how the BG's are so bad now and how bad it will be after the SHTF... but what most of you aren't taking into consideration is that the reason there are so many creeps ( term used in place of A$$holes) is simply that we the good folks ( well some of us are  ) are not getting involved due to all the legal crap the courts pile on...
> 
> I can assure you that when the old Balloon goes up the punks, creeps "AH's" will be dropping like flies in a cold snap the only reason they are able to flourish now is because we decent folks ain't started shooting the bastards yet..
> 
> ...


+ 1 and an Amen...


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I have shared the family/household rule of BillS (I think) on my email and many blogs..
If you choose to feed any friend, bf/gf, relative of a friend, in-laws, neighbors, church members, etc...it's your share of food you're donating, not the family's.

Priceless!!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

horseman09 said:


> I sure don't know any more about this than anyone else, but I envision a different scenario.
> 
> IMHO, a "trigger" event of some sort will spark massive riots in the cities. Thousands of "entitlers" will burn many US cities and slaughter thousands -- maybe tens of thousands of innocent people. Only the toughest of the toughest (and best prepared) on both sides will survive.
> 
> ...


I will have to agree with you on your post. It will not be a very good time to be alive when after having to deal with the "zombies" trying to take what you have, you then have to try and live under a Dictator with no rights left.

I also agree with Jay Jay that if I am in a position to be able to offer help to those that honestly need it and ask for it instead of trying to just take what they want, then I would give what I could.

Don't get me wrong, I am no push over and will defend my family with whatever I have on hand (which is considerable) and I will deal a whole lot of misery to those that deserve it.

I have no intention of living a life stripped of all rights, freedoms and liberties that we as Americans have had and held dear all of our lives.
So take that statement however you want to, because I have no doubt as to what I would do in that situation.

DM


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## whome (Oct 6, 2011)

I saw on some blog a quote I kinda like. It said: Be polite to everyone, but know how you're going to kill them if you have to. Or something like that, basically what y'all have been saying, trust no one.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

whome said:


> I saw on some blog a quote I kinda like. It said: Be polite to everyone, but know how you're going to kill them if you have to. Or something like that, basically what y'all have been saying, trust no one.


Sorta like I tell dh a lot...I'm a christian, but that don't mean I'm a floormat!!

And DM..I'm with you on all your assessments...when all's said and done, I gotta answer to the Man, so I try to keep my heart and mind open.....case closed.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Calista said:


> True Story: A good-guy neighbor we've come to know said he found a young, prosperous-looking family of four -- Mom, Dad, and two pre-teen boys -- sitting at the picnic bench in his side pasture one weekend day when he got home from the feed store, just eating their sandwiches and watching the horses like they were in a public park. Our neighbor accosted them incredulously, asking if they'd seen the "No Trespassing" signs at the open gate, and the husband said (with no apologies), "What's the big deal? You weren't using it and we'll be gone in a little bit."


I'd have had to have some fun with them. I'd say "I'm glad you feel that way! I need a car to go somewhere in & since you're not using yours I'll just take it!".


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## Calista (Oct 6, 2011)

tsrwivey said:


> I'd have had to have some fun with them. I'd say "I'm glad you feel that way! I need a car to go somewhere in & since you're not using yours I'll just take it!".


Yes, for JayJay, our neighbor said this was a PROSPEROUS-looking family with a late-model car who were obviously trespassing, having driven past the sign through the open gate. In my area of the country, that's a big NO-NO and residents in this rural area strictly enforce private property rights. We sit down to eat lunch with INVITED guests. 

I think our neighbor should have also added, "Fantastic! The wife and our seven kids didn't get to grocery-shopping today, so we'll just stop by and help ourselves to what's in your fridge tonight for dinner before you get back -- since you're NOT USING IT!" :nuts:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Calista said:


> Yes, for JayJay, our neighbor said this was a PROSPEROUS-looking family with a late-model car who were obviously trespassing, having driven past the sign through the open gate. In my area of the country, that's a big NO-NO and residents in this rural area strictly enforce private property rights. We sit down to eat lunch with INVITED guests.
> 
> I think our neighbor should have also added, "Fantastic! The wife and our seven kids didn't get to grocery-shopping today, so we'll just stop by and help ourselves to what's in your fridge tonight for dinner before you get back -- since you're NOT USING IT!" :nuts:


As I said, different country, different attitudes.

Good example...California neighbor (not really, it's a lost art, neighboring) came to my house and I asked why she used the road and drive instead of just walking up the yard to the porch??
I thought she didn't want her shoes dirty.
Nope--in Caly, they don't walk on people's yards.
I said, well in Ky, we drive on our yards---and she gasped!!
Different country, different attitudes.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

JayJay said:


> Sorta like I tell dh a lot...I'm a christian, but that don't mean I'm a floormat!!
> 
> And DM..I'm with you on all your assessments...when all's said and done, I gotta answer to the Man, so I try to keep my heart and mind open.....case closed.


Amen, my brother Amen.

DM


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*once the power goes off, so does the WATER, people*

so the townies will HAVE to leave the urban areas, and the cities will BURN without a fire dept and water. The dog packs will be horrendous, in town and in country. all livestock will be dead within a month of shtf. Starving people and the dogs will see to that much. The wild animals won't last a month more. .then the fish and edible wild plants will be gone in another month and the cannabilism will begin.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

*here doggy doggy*



lickit said:


> so the townies will HAVE to leave the urban areas, and the cities will BURN without a fire dept and water. The dog packs will be horrendous, in town and in country. all livestock will be dead within a month of shtf. Starving people and the dogs will see to that much. The wild animals won't last a month more. .then the fish and edible wild plants will be gone in another month and the cannabilism will begin.


here doggy doggy, here doggy doggy....bang, looks like we will have dog adobo tonight.
don't worry if i see one being walked on a leash i'll hold me fire:2thumb:

piglett


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*other people won't, count on it.*

I have to laugh at people who "think' that they will ride horses after shtf.  the horses will all be EATEN, people, you will be shot off of any horse you are so silly as to be riding.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

One saving grace in a true TEOTWAWKI situation is the die off. I believe that before they leave the cities a good 10-30 percent will be dead with 20-50 dead within 100 miles of the city. This leaves another 10-30 percent who I believe will behave like helpless refugees because they have been so brainwashed by dependence on the Government and the last portion that will be the highly motivated scum and their panicked followers who will be the real problem. Most, I think, except the truly disciplined or cruel bad guys will be dissuade by a show of force, what you have to worry about is the disciplined organizing the panicked, and cruel. Along with the organized bad guys one should remember the threat from the organized good-guys, governmental do-ers who think that it is there good given duty to "fix things" aka take power.


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## lickit (Oct 6, 2011)

*it will only take 5% to make life hell for everyone else*

Once they figure out to LISTEN to guys with some smarts, use motorcycles to travel, they will make it 1000's of miles from where they started, preying on everyone as they go, in small bandit groups. u can easily haul a lot of jerry cans of gas on a motorcycle, and use gas from tractors, combines, stalled/shot up cars, etc.

Bikes get 30 mpg off road, on road, given a smaller rear sprocket and a full length fairing, 60 mpg or more. Given a pair of 5 gallon jerry cans in the saddlebag position, and a couple more behind a tall "buddyrest", that leaves room to wear a backpack, as wheel as have another bag on the gas tank. 23 gallons of gas,x say, 45 miles per gallon. during the passage of 1000 miles, you really THINK that they won't find more gas?  So, yes, they can keep moving for months, most likely.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Padre said:


> One saving grace in a true TEOTWAWKI situation is the die off. I believe that before they leave the cities a good 10-30 percent will be dead with 20-50 dead within 100 miles of the city. This leaves another 10-30 percent who I believe will behave like helpless refugees because they have been so brainwashed by dependence on the Government and the last portion that will be the highly motivated scum and their panicked followers who will be the real problem. Most, I think, except the truly disciplined or cruel bad guys will be dissuade by a show of force, what you have to worry about is the disciplined organizing the panicked, and cruel. Along with the organized bad guys one should remember the threat from the organized good-guys, governmental do-ers who think that it is there good given duty to "fix things" aka take power.


Nope padra...what you have to worry about---and I continue to bring this up, as unpleasant as it is--is what do 'we' do with all those bodies to ensure 'we' don't get sick from them???
A topic for another thread...because nobody's talking about it.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*John Wyane*



JayJay said:


> Nope padra...what you have to worry about---and I continue to bring this up, as unpleasant as it is--is what do 'we' do with all those bodies to ensure 'we' don't get sick from them???
> A topic for another thread...because nobody's talking about it.


John Wyane always just "buryed them"


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

lickit said:


> Once they figure out to LISTEN to guys with some smarts, use motorcycles to travel, they will make it 1000's of miles from where they started, preying on everyone as they go, in small bandit groups. u can easily haul a lot of jerry cans of gas on a motorcycle, and use gas from tractors, combines, stalled/shot up cars, etc.
> 
> Bikes get 30 mpg off road, on road, given a smaller rear sprocket and a full length fairing, 60 mpg or more. Given a pair of 5 gallon jerry cans in the saddlebag position, and a couple more behind a tall "buddyrest", that leaves room to wear a backpack, as wheel as have another bag on the gas tank. 23 gallons of gas,x say, 45 miles per gallon. during the passage of 1000 miles, you really THINK that they won't find more gas?  So, yes, they can keep moving for months, most likely.


i'll be looking for extra food not stupid gas. no power = no work for me 
so i don't need to leave home unless it's on foot to go see if i can get a deer or other 4 legged critter. i would rather have 3 or 4 new pairs of boots stashed in different places than a bunch of gas. my old 62' farmall runs on diesel & i have plenty. just need to till the garden & then i'm good to go.

piglett


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BillM said:


> John Wyane always just "buryed them"


Gotta love "The Duke". :2thumb:

DM


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Nope padra [sic]...what you have to worry about--is what do 'we' do with all those bodies to ensure 'we' don't get sick from them???
> A topic for another thread...because nobody's talking about it.


I absolutely agree that for those who live in the city bodies will be a huge issue, but this thread is about the golden hoard escaping the city and the fact is the more of them that die in the city the less of them I have to bury in the compost pile.

My BO retreat is 1.5 hours from the nearest (smallish) city we have a pop density of < 1 soul per square mile in the valley. We have our own water and a range of mountains surrounding us on all sides--once I get there I do not have to worry about the dead (unless the zombie movies are right), I have to worry about the living.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Nope padra...what you have to worry about---and I continue to bring this up, as unpleasant as it is--is what do 'we' do with all those bodies to ensure 'we' don't get sick from them???
> A topic for another thread...because nobody's talking about it.


That's something that concerns me too. I live in an area with a lot of multi-family units. There must be hundreds of people within a mile of where I live. If the collapse happens in winter it'll be fine until spring. Then it will become unbearable. You couldn't dig graves fast enough. I imagine that if the collapse happens in winter that every tree will be cut down and burned for heat. Whether it's on your property or not. Somebody will cut it down. So you couldn't gather up a bunch of bodies and build a bonfire out of wood to burn them up. Maybe if people die in their homes with the windows shut the smell wouldn't be bad. I don't know.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

Padre said:


> I absolutely agree that for those who live in the city bodies will be a huge issue, but this thread is about the golden hoard escaping the city and the fact is the more of them that die in the city the less of them I have to bury in the compost pile.
> 
> My BO retreat is 1.5 hours from the nearest (smallish) city we have a pop density of < 1 soul per square mile in the valley. We have our own water and a range of mountains surrounding us on all sides--once I get there I do not have to worry about the dead (unless the zombie movies are right), I have to worry about the living.


hey Padre i'm up in the lakes region of NH you planning on heading on up to see us here when the SHTF?


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

There are solutions, just not pretty ones. 

Mass graves -- easier if you have a bulldozer, backhoe or some sort of excavating machine that will run. 

In the novel "One Second After," they turned the golf course into a cemetery. But that is still work.

If you live in a place with a river flowing through, toss 'em in and let the people downstream worry about it. The crabs at sea will appreciate it.

Burning them is likely to take too much precious fuel. 

The biggest problem might be making people in this chaotic desperate mob scenario believe the disposing of bodies and maintaining good hygiene is critical to their survival. They'll be too busy scratching for food and water to bother with the dead.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

piglett said:


> hey Padre i'm up in the lakes region of NH you planning on heading on up to see us here when the SHTF?


Piglett, no I am close but not in the live free or die state. But I would love to come visit one of these days for a cold one.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Without the gird up cities and most suburbs will be uninhabitable so I am not sure why we should be that concerned. Give it a few years an nature will take care of it. In the interim if you really need to go into the city for supplies, and you are brave enough to undertake the trip, then just suit up in a bio-suit bring your own water and a gas mask and you will be good for a short visit.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

Padre said:


> Piglett, no I am close but not in the live free or die state. But I would love to come visit one of these days for a cold one.


sounds like a good plan. :beercheer:


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## snowbound (Oct 6, 2011)

tsrwivey said:


> I'd have had to have some fun with them. I'd say "I'm glad you feel that way! I need a car to go somewhere in & since you're not using yours I'll just take it!".


Great response! "Community Property" is well and good as long as it's someone elses property. HA! Maybe if they ASKED first it would different...


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## stand (Nov 15, 2011)

*It is not a case of what you want to do (motorcycles)*

it's what the enemy will have, how far they can travel, etc. There will be no big crowd of cars going much of anywhere, but the motorcycles offer tremendous potential. The guy is thinking.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

stand said:


> it's what the enemy will have, how far they can travel, etc. There will be no big crowd of cars going much of anywhere, but the motorcycles offer tremendous potential. The guy is thinking.


Tactical wheelbarrows, anyone?


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## stand (Nov 15, 2011)

*what do wheelbarrows have to do with anything?*

Pray tell?


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

Clarice said:


> Hubby and I have discussed this and have a plan to put together small ration packs to distribute for children. My heart breaks for those without the awareness to be prepared for themselves and their children, I know we can't feed them all and that is something we pray about daily. I finially got my brother-in-law on board by reminding him his grandchildren would be looking to him for shelter and food when the balloon goes up. May God give us the strength to do what must be done.


I appreciate your humanitarian spirit but have to say that people who have been in these situations will tell you handing out food even to children is a good way to get killed. Lowlife adults will take the food away from the children and demand more and they will take it if you don't give it. Even children from the areas we are talking about can be as dangerous as feral animals in these circumstances. Hate to be harsh but the reality is that you and yours will be at risk if you try to do it this way.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Wanderer0101 said:


> I appreciate your humanitarian spirit but have to say that people who have been in these situations will tell you handing out food even to children is a good way to get killed. Lowlife adults will take the food away from the children and demand more and they will take it if you don't give it. Even children from the areas we are talking about can be as dangerous as feral animals in these circumstances. Hate to be harsh but the reality is that you and yours will be at risk if you try to do it this way.


No! Where has that ever happened? Oh, right. Every day in Africa.

He does bring up a decent point. It doesnt matter. Clarice, you are doing a wonderful thing. Keep it up, and stay safe.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Humanitarian Aid*

In a sociatial collapse where food , ammo , medicens , ect. become currency, you should never hand anything out or trade anything from your home.

You need to do this from a Church or hospital.

You should always do and trading from a location set up where black market trading is done. Those areas will become well known.

You never want to go to one of those places with anything you can not conceal of defend.

You want to make sure you are not followed when you leave.

If you give away anything free, you will be marked as someone to go to.

Always require somthing in return for the food , ect. even if it is worthless.

I wouldn't ask for somthing they needed like their shoes but would require they gather some wood or do some out side work, anything to keep them from thinking it was free.

To do otherwise is to invite trouble you don't want.

I am making preps with another Deacon to store some long term food at an alternate location to take to the Church to provide some soup kitchen meals in this event.

If anyone comes to my door I will tell them that the church is giving meals to the hungery at such and such time.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

BillM said:


> In a sociatial collapse where food , ammo , medicens , ect. become currency, you should never hand anything out or trade anything from your home.
> 
> You need to do this from a Church or hospital.
> 
> ...


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## RazorCityDen (Dec 6, 2011)

I don't disagree about the OP's run down of bad folks in general, but if history is any indicater, it's the middle class folks that try to bug-out and the folks in the 'projects' that tough it in place.

Personaly I think they are going to be just as dangerous.

Take care,


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*The Map shows lots of people on reservation on food stamps*

When I looked at the map, I recognized that many of the darkest regions are Indian Reservations. I know that not everyone on food stamps and assistance is a Native American, but I do know that in several states the zones are definitely reservations--the Rez.

Life on the Rez has been rough for decades. The one thing about many of the reservations is that they are not very densely populated.

On some post somewhere, I read that many urban thugs will not go far from the city. Many inner city folks are terrified of anything that is alive and moves--dogs, rats, raccoons, etc. They can relate to how to terrorize, break into, rob, etc, anyone they think has a nickel they want or can get.

I believe that most of the Golden Horde who leaves the city will be going to some rural area that they already have tie or familiarity with. Let's say you grew up in rural Missouri, but now live in St. Louis or Kansas City. You will probably head for the hills that you are familiar with.

I agree that there will be looting, pillaging, and burning down of homes, with a crowd gone wild as we often see after sporting events, or riots due to some perceived political injustice.

I live in an area that has been gentrified in the last couple decades. There are homes in my area that have gone for $500K, but certainly not all.

One of the things that I read often for defense is to know your neighbors. This is something that is an unknown.

One of what I consider to be the worst neighbor I have ever had is a "devout Christian". She speaks in tongues, serves the Lord, quotes scriptures. Just ask her, she will tell you how good she is. She knows everyone's business. She wants to know who is doing what work and how much you are paying. She burns up the telephone with her gossip and nosiness. She is also one of the most judgemental people I have ever met. When she was convinced that it was okay for another neighbor to continually harrass me, I cut her off. 
I do not need a loose cannon telling my business when she thinks it is her right.

I saw something like this: "Be a DJ for the devil. Gossip."

When I say all of this, I do not mean to put down Christians. I have always considered myself one, but one of the worst weapons against anyone is gossip.

I have decided to become a recluse. Most of my neighbors have gotten it. They can go for months without even seeing me. I have 2 lights I leave on 24/7, so I can move around and no one really knows if I am home, or not, or where I might be. My car is in the garage, so it is hard to know if I am here, or not.

There are a few people who have knocked on my front door regularly for years. They are the male types as described in the story who have nothing, do not think past today's drink, or food, or place to sleep. But since I have a home, I am rich, or some of them have told me. I used to let this type mow the yard, or shovel the snow, or other such chores. I have unfortunately opened the door to this element and for a number of years I have cut it off. I have quit answering my door. If someone comes to see me, they better let me know in advance, and if not, better know my number so they can call me when they are at the front door.


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## pdxr13 (Oct 6, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Whoa---what surplus?? who knows or can even imagine how long this collapse, as is stated from the IMF today is surely coming, will last??
> So, how can anyone feel they have a surplus?? If the SHTF as I see it---churches will NOT be prepared to feed multitudes without electricity.
> These churches within 3-12 miles of my home are not prepping..don't know the term...and will not be taking my food to prepare for those suffering.
> I see a collapse differently--you're assuming you will have gas to go to these egg producers' homes--my gas saved will be precious--not used in verbal games with idiots. Sorry, if this comes as rude--my outlook is more dismal than yours?? I do have bags of rice ready for emergencies, but noone is getting into my home.
> ...


I'm not Noah, and God hasn't spoken to me.

No one gets invited into my house now, so that's not going to change. 
There will be food that will "age out" if I'm doing everything right, and a little luck comes my way. Lots of churches have kitchens that will work with some modification to run on propane, parking lot gensets, and water jugs on counters. It will happen, and they will need bulk food from wherever they can get it. My buckets of 8 year old hard beans will be accepted, since they have stock pots and pressure cookers for the older ladies to run.

JWR is not a prophet, but he doesn't plan on killing folks off instead of feeding them, which even Stalin did not do (waste of labor resource- work them while semi-starving!). Storing extra is cheap and won't make me miss a meal.

Pretty sure that there won't be any gas burning to get some eggs. Got boots? Everywhere is walking distance, if you have the time.

The novel by Stirling "Dies the Fire" had an interesting premise: that by about the 3rd year after a die-off, labor will be in short supply. Skilled labor will be worth paying for. Europe after the Black Death had this situation.

Chatting people up with disinfo that indicates strength beyond what they can see is not bad. They may tell you what is happening where they have come from. Offering some clean water to travelers is good manners for civilized people, which will need encouraging. Arms encourage polite society.

Cheers.


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