# German gold repatriation?



## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Now ZH has a tendency to exaggerate a bit, and the translation on the German site is unclear to say the least, but if this is true this could actually be a big story.
*It Begins: Bundesbank To Commence Repatriating Gold From New York Fed*

*"German Handelsblatt reports in an exclusive that the long suffering German gold, all official 3,396 tons of it, is about to be moved. Specifically, it is about to be partially moved out of the New York Fed, where the majority, or 45% of it is currently stored, as well as the entirety of the 11% of German gold held with the Banque de France, and repatriated back home to Buba in Frankfurt, where just 31% of it is held as of this moment."*

This, along with Chinas surge in gold imports (again, if true) could easily start a gold run that certainly gives off some scary signals. Why would Germany want their gold back? Why now?
Maybe the gold bugs are reading too much into this?
Since ZH's article is the only one I can find (other than the German one) who knows. I did find this interesting article on CNBS from October.

*" In reality, it does not matter one bit whether the Federal Reserve Bank of New York actually has the German central bank's gold or whether the gold is pure. As long as the Fed says it is there, it is as good as there for all practical purposes to which it might be put. It can be sold, leased out, used as collateral, employed to extinguish liabilities and counted as bank capital just the same whether it exists or not."*

While I get his overall point, this seems to be a ridiculous statement to make. Of course it matters.
At least he goes on to say:
*"But if the gold isn't there, well, calamity could follow as trust in the central bank gold depositories evaporated instantly."*
While we can only speculate, this would be game over.

*"But I like to imagine that the Fed officials would bring the Germans to the door of the a compartment labeled, say, No. 322, and then pose the question: "Are you absolutely sure you want to see what's in here?"*

Hah!


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> Now ZH has a tendency to exaggerate a bit, and the translation on the German site is unclear to say the least, but if this is true this could actually be a big story.
> It Begins: Bundesbank To Commence Repatriating Gold From New York Fed
> 
> "German Handelsblatt reports in an exclusive that the long suffering German gold, all official 3,396 tons of it, is about to be moved. Specifically, it is about to be partially moved out of the New York Fed, where the majority, or 45% of it is currently stored, as well as the entirety of the 11% of German gold held with the Banque de France, and repatriated back home to Buba in Frankfurt, where just 31% of it is held as of this moment."
> ...


They want an audit... Have been asking since Oct 2012, and fed reserve is saying no...

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world/some-germans-want-see-gold-stored-us

http://rt.com/business/news/germany-gold-reserves-check-472/


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Won't they be suprised when they learn it is all gone already sold to china. I hope they do I wanna see if it is actually still there. be willing to bet that it isn't. There might be somthing there resembling gold but I bet their real gold is missing. So I wanna seeeeeee!!


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## Paltik (Nov 20, 2012)

I can't imagine why this would be an issue for Germany at this point in time, but it's also true that the USA has a history of "freezing" the assets it holds belonging to nations with whom it has differences.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Good for them. I say they have every right to demand whatever they have stored and take it wherever they want.

I would worry that the fed has not done a full audit or let them see their gold holdings there. It is theirs they should be able to do with it as they please. With all the rumors and secrecy going on at the fed if I had a few tons of gold there *I* would be there right quick to pick it up. AND I would drill into each bar and demand that any filled bars be replaced with actual gold.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

If I got a response like this, I'd sure be looking for a truck to backup to the vault!

http://www.silverdoctors.com/cnbc-mope-actual-existence-of-gold-reserves-is-irrelevant-its-the-bookkeeping-that-matters/

In an amazingly weak and futile attempt to stem the inevitable onslaught of delivery and repatriation requests, CNBC's senior editor John Carney has released an editorial claiming that it matters not whether the gold held at the NY Fed and the BOE is filled with tungsten, has been leased or swapped, or that it even exists- all that matters is the Fed's bookkeeping ledger that states the gold is there. 
CNBC begins by attempting to claim that it doesn't matter whether Germany's gold reserves held at the NY Fed are actually there and tungsten free, as long as the Fed says it's there:

"In reality, it does not matter one bit whether the Federal Reserve Bank of New York actually has the German central bank's gold or whether the gold is pure. As long as the Fed says it is there, it is as good as there for all practical purposes to which it might be put. It can be sold, leased out, used as collateral, employed to extinguish liabilities and counted as bank capital just the same whether it exists or not."


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Paltik said:


> I can't imagine why this would be an issue for Germany at this point in time, but it's also true that the USA has a history of "freezing" the assets it holds belonging to nations with whom it has differences.


Really? There has been a crunch going on in Europe - Greece, Spain, etc... Since the Germain D Mark is non-exist ant since the creation of the euro, their economy is now as dependent upon the euro as Greece, Spain, and France... So when one of the 3 has to file bankruptcy and/or defaults on their loans then inflation or devaluation of their euro happens they may want to switch back to the d mark and back it with gold... Also, they also maybe coming for it to get it out so when our federal bubble finally bursts they know exactly how much is here and can get it out... About the only thing keeping us from the bubble exploding right now is the fact the USD is used as the world currency for gold and oil...


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

*More...*

More about this, and this is...confusing?
*It Will Take The Fed Seven Years To Deliver 300 Tons Of German Gold*

*What is news is that courtesy of the supplied calendar of events in the Buba statement, it will take the Fed some seven years to procure Germany's 300 tons of gold. This is the same Fed that, in its own words, holds some "216 million troy ounces of gold" or some 6720 tons, in its vault 80 feet below ground level. 
*

And some witty comments from the peanut gallery:
"

*Germany wants their gold holdings repatriated to home soil. They have asked the French to return all of their gold, at a rate of 50 tonnes per year until all 374 metric tonnes are received. *
*The French have just commenced military operations in Mali. Mali is Africa's third largest gold producer. Mali, this past year, increased its gold production by just over 50 metric tonnes. *
*Is anyone else seeing the connection here? *
*I'm willing to bet that France does not have Germany's gold and the Bundesbank has given them a few years to mine it from Mali. Yet the Mali source must be secure, hence the military must make sure the gold flows."*

And this:

*I'm confused. We can move over 100,000 soldiers, thousands of airplanes and dozens of ships to an area (like Iraq) in a few weeks yet we can't make good on Germany's request for 7 years?*

*Smells fishy.*

With the reply:
*That was their choice; they chose the 7 years for their gold over the 100k soldiers, thousands of airplanes and dozens of ships in a few weeks.*


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> *That was their choice; they chose the 7 years for their gold over the 100k soldiers, thousands of airplanes and dozens of ships in a few weeks.*


:laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> *I'm confused. We can move over 100,000 soldiers, thousands of airplanes and dozens of ships to an area (like Iraq) in a few weeks yet we can't make good on Germany's request for 7 years?*
> 
> .[/B]


Yeah we were able to deliver 360 tons of cash money to the middle east in short order so it sure isn't the weight issue. Just learned of that yesterday.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> Yeah we were able to deliver 360 tons of cash money to the middle east in short order so it sure isn't the weight issue. Just learned of that yesterday.


Yeah but we can work overtime printing our cash, can't quite do that with the nice butter!! Its like in harry potter "what's in the vault?" "Mind your own business if you know what's good for you!" Betcha the vaults are full of the same crap Geraldo found in Capone's vault. Nuthin!


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I agree. I bet Germany said they wanted it yesterday and the Fed told them they do not have the physical gold but can give them paper instead. For the next 7 years look for gold to increase in price as it gets harder to buy physical gold. The Fed will be buying all it can find.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> More about this, and this is...confusing?...I'm confused. We can move over 100,000 soldiers, thousands of airplanes and dozens of ships to an area (like Iraq) in a few weeks yet we can't make good on Germany's request for 7 years? Smells fishy.


We're sending it back by USPS?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Naw, the Post office's 'if it fits it ships' boxes.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

If I needed 3400 tons of gravel the local quarry have it here by the end of the next day.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

C'mon, y'all... Does anyone remember when we opened Fort Knox to a couple of officials & a handful of reporters back in '72? It was all there. Sheeesh.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

jsriley5 said:


> Yeah we were able to deliver 360 tons of cash money to the middle east in short order so it sure isn't the weight issue. Just learned of that yesterday.


Yeah, but 360 tons of paper money weighs less than 360 tons of gold. ;?)

Now, the Netherlands is discussing repatriating it's foreign held gold.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

I keep thinking of the "Seinfeld" episode, when George couldn't get his car out of the Jiffy Park lot because there were too many other cars parked in front of it...


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Funny when we get kicked out of NATO and UN for stealing gold from all those countries that want it back  NObody will lend us anything anymore (blessing) and everyone will start calling their debt due and that is shte sickening part because I don't know what they used for collateral for those loans we can't pay at the drop of a hat.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

With the global situation, I can not imagine why all countries would not want all their gold within their own borders. I want my money at home instead of in the bank that is only 35 miles away.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

What if all the gold in the New York fed has been collateralized to protect troubled banks and to release the gold so it can be shipped back to Germany all the gold has to have all the liens removed and that could take 7 years. Those liens could be held by a foreign government.


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## recoilless_57mm (Oct 15, 2012)

Woody said:


> I agree. I bet Germany said they wanted it yesterday and the Fed told them they do not have the physical gold but can give them paper instead. For the next 7 years look for gold to increase in price as it gets harder to buy physical gold. The Fed will be buying all it can find.


Woody: I would agree that the government will buy back gold for a time. The problem is what are they going to give you for it, paper money? If that does not work then they will make it illegal to hold gold and silver. When you turn it in they will give you what? Paper money that is not even worth using for whip. As I see it having gold and silver is worth it only if you don't need it to live on. It may be a long term way to shelter some of your assets. Beyond that I feel that putting ones extra income into food, clothing & shelter is more practical. Learning to take care of ones self during very hard times is probably the single most important skill you can invest in. Just my opinion, Charlie


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> Funny when we get kicked out of NATO and UN for stealing gold from all those countries that want it back  NObody will lend us anything anymore (blessing) and everyone will start calling their debt due and that is shte sickening part because I don't know what they used for collateral for those loans we can't pay at the drop of a hat.


Land... Mount Rushmore, Yellowstone... 
Oil - Shale oil rights in the gulf... 
PMs - Gold mining rights in the Bering Sea...

Actually, nothing is used for collateral, except our word,,, it only takes politicians from an other country to trust our politicians and visa versa....no seriously, it is all based on trust. Our word as a nation.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Thats a hoot!!!! LOL hahahahahahaha! Politicians trusting politicians now THAT is the height of stupidity.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

recoilless_57mm said:


> Woody: I would agree that the government will buy back gold for a time. The problem is what are they going to give you for it, paper money? If that does not work then they will make it illegal to hold gold and silver. When you turn it in they will give you what? Paper money that is not even worth using for whip. As I see it having gold and silver is worth it only if you don't need it to live on. It may be a long term way to shelter some of your assets. Beyond that I feel that putting ones extra income into food, clothing & shelter is more practical. Learning to take care of ones self during very hard times is probably the single most important skill you can invest in. Just my opinion, Charlie


But, at some point, you are going to want to retire... If you don't invest your money somewhere, how will you live at the dear old age of 102?

Seriously, I collect both G&S in hand, because I can't play in the market with ease due to client restrictions... So for me it is easy once a month to place an order for 10 eagles and 1 kug.... Prices will fluctuate sure, but history shows both have always had value... I don't buy bars or blanks... Coins only... There is no way they are going to come after everyone's coin collection.... And you do need to ask yourself, what IF TSHTF doesn't happen?? Yeah, but miracles have been known to happen once in a while.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Why Kugerands if I may ask. I kinda figured the american eagles were the way to go. when I buy (only once so far) I was getting the 1/10 th ounce eagles. (like the smaller ones easier to deal that way and if I need to liquidate localy the smaller ones will be easier to sell around here)


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> Why Kugerands if I may ask. I kinda figured the american eagles were the way to go. when I buy (only once so far) I was getting the 1/10 th ounce eagles. (like the smaller ones easier to deal that way and if I need to liquidate localy the smaller ones will be easier to sell around here)


Personal choice...

The kug has a person closeness to me... My mom has always had a kug she wore and still does.. She gave me my first rand when I moved to Atlanta and started traveling. Her opinion was, if I get jacked, most people won't know what a kug is compared to an American Eagle, all I needed to do was walk into a bank and I would have access to cash since it is a currency... Since that gift was on a necklace, I have worn it everyday, in and out of shirt... When I got married the first go around, my wife got one from my mom at the reception... Then when I got remarried, my new wife got one the next time my mom saw her... When my step daughter turns 16, she will get one from my mom... Most people have no clue what it is from a distance, and under a buttoned dress shirt it can't be seen...

This same reasoning is why I wear a Jäger Le Coutre watch instead of a Rolex or a Tag... Unless you know premium Swiss watches, you would think it is a regular watch, a silver looking thick Timex even,,, not 5 digits wrapped around my wrist... Only when I am in a room with a watch collector or someone who has something similar (Patek, IWC, etc) does it ever get mentioned... And that only seems to happen once every 3-4 months...

So that is why I have always bought rands versus the American Eagle... Personal choice...


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks I was just being nosey. so I appreciate you indulging me and it is a neat story too.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Tweto said:


> What if all the gold in the New York fed has been collateralized


What if? Thats funny. We can only assume that it has, what possible reason would they have for delaying this for 7 years?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Because there is no gold there?


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

That would only be a tad worse than if its been re-re-rehypothecated...
But good point!


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