# They are coming for your fishies



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

It seems the powers at be are hugely concerned for our health...

Isn't interesting how they throw accusation after accusation out there to create the appearance of a problem:

Using fido's medicine
Hording 
(with the suggestion of absurdity or even psychiatric disorder)
Pain pill seeking
Formulated for animals 
Potentially deadly
Failure of health care (the system costs too much)
Antibiotic resistance.

In reality only the last is a real concern, and if all you are doing is stashing drugs even this is a non-issue... however the solution... to this non-problem... more government. More control over animal drugs... perhaps criminal penalties for "hording" these drugs... more psychiatric interventions... "better" meaning more state run health care...etc, etc, etc....

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/08/29/why-some-are-stealing-medications-from-their-pets/


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

The bigger they get, the more they need, the more they need, the bigger they need to be . . . . . . . . .


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

One of my dogs was sick 2 weeks ago and the vet gave us "Carafate" to give him. The next week my wife had a endoscopy and her doctor gave her "Carafate" to take. Same medicine. What would be interesting to know is if the same manufacturer made both human and dog meds.

At the same time as one of my dogs was sick we found out that our other dog had cancer and the vet gave us a drug named "Tramadol" to take away his pain.

4 days ago I had surgery and my doctor gave me "Oxycodone" for post surgery pain. 

Tramadol and Oxycodone have another name "Ultram" an Opioid analgesic (the same thing).

I can see why some are taking their dogs meds, it appears to be the same thing.

BTW we had to put our 10 year old Golden Retriever down a few days before I went into surgery. Both our dogs were sick at the same time with different problems. I think both dogs knew what we were going through and the stress killed one and made the other sick.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Dag gone Tweto, I'm so sorry for your loss. Goldens(and all pets) have a way about wrapping themselves around your heart.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

Tweto said:


> One of my dogs was sick 2 weeks ago and the vet gave us "Carafate" to give him. The next week my wife had a endoscopy and her doctor gave her "Carafate" to take. Same medicine. What would be interesting to know is if the same manufacturer made both human and dog meds.
> 
> At the same time as one of my dogs was sick we found out that our other dog had cancer and the vet gave us a drug named "Tramadol" to take away his pain.
> 
> ...


 Tweto,
I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your dog. 

For the record, Tramadol and oxycodone are not the same. Tramadol (Ultram) is a synthetic opioid narcotic-like pain medication. Oxycodone (most commonly given with acetaminophen as Percocet) is a semi-synthetic pure opioid. Although both medications are given for pain, the way they work in the body is quite different, and they break down into different compounds. Oxycodone is listed as a Schedule 2 drug (along with morphine, dilaudid, Demerol and other strong narcotics). Ultram is only a Schedule 4 drug (along with Xanax, Soma, and Valium). It was not even a scheduled drug until 2014, when the gov't realized Ultram does have an abuse potential.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

DrDianaAnderson said:


> Tweto,
> I'm so sorry to hear of the loss of your dog.
> 
> For the record, Tramadol and oxycodone are not the same. Tramadol (Ultram) is a synthetic opioid narcotic-like pain medication. Oxycodone (most commonly given with acetaminophen as Percocet) is a semi-synthetic pure opioid. Although both medications are given for pain, the way they work in the body is quite different, and they break down into different compounds. Oxycodone is listed as a Schedule 2 drug (along with morphine, dilaudid, Demerol and other strong narcotics). Ultram is only a Schedule 4 drug (along with Xanax, Soma, and Valium). It was not even a scheduled drug until 2014, when the gov't realized Ultram does have an abuse potential.


Thanks for correcting me. I found a reference of Ultram on a webb site that was associated to oxycodone, but I know that the internet is not always the best source for dependable information.

If I understand your post, Ultram is weaker then Oxycodone, is that correct?

BTW I had surgery 4 days ago and am still without pain, so what do I do with 40 Oxycodone pills. Because I'm a prepper, I hesitate throwing them out, just in case I may really need them during SHTF.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

HardCider said:


> Dag gone Tweto, I'm so sorry for your loss. Goldens(and all pets) have a way about wrapping themselves around your heart.


Thanks for the understanding the impact of putting a dog down. It happened quickly, one week he was fine then he started to have trouble walking. We took him to the vet and an x-ray showed cancer spread through his body. The vet said that he could have another 3-6 months left. Well, she was wrong, he completely collapsed over the next few days.

I remember every dog I have ever put down and it has been more emotional for me and my wife then even when close relatives have died.

All dog lovers will understand this.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Tweto said:


> One of my dogs was sick 2 weeks ago and the vet gave us "Carafate" to give him. The next week my wife had a endoscopy and her doctor gave her "Carafate" to take. Same medicine. What would be interesting to know is if the same manufacturer made both human and dog meds.
> 
> At the same time as one of my dogs was sick we found out that our other dog had cancer and the vet gave us a drug named "Tramadol" to take away his pain.
> 
> ...


I am sorry for your loss. Pets are part of our family.

I recently took care of my daughter's 10 month old ridgeback for two weeks while daughter was on vacation. Before the dog was spayed at 6 months, she had begun to have liver problems. Of course the dog got sick when daughter was gone. We dealt with the first part of the problem, but then she got gimpy. We are not sure what happened, but there were several concerns with the animal hospital we took her to. Three days on Tramadol and a muscle relaxant and she was feeling much better. That was all she needed and she was her spunky self. There is always concern about pain meds and the liver. We know she is going to have a short life, but we love her and will do our best to care for her while she is here. We do not want to see her suffer so we will do what is possible to keep her well, and then when she is no longer eating or pulling on her leash as she walks, or is in pain, daughter will have to decide to put her down.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> I am sorry for your loss. Pets are part of our family.
> 
> I recently took care of my daughter's 10 month old ridgeback for two weeks while daughter was on vacation. Before the dog was spayed at 6 months, she had begun to have liver problems. Of course the dog got sick when daughter was gone. We dealt with the first part of the problem, but then she got gimpy. We are not sure what happened, but there were several concerns with the animal hospital we took her to. Three days on Tramadol and a muscle relaxant and she was feeling much better. That was all she needed and she was her spunky self. There is always concern about pain meds and the liver. We know she is going to have a short life, but we love her and will do our best to care for her while she is here. We do not want to see her suffer so we will do what is possible to keep her well, and then when she is no longer eating or pulling on her leash as she walks, or is in pain, daughter will have to decide to put her down.


I suspect that your daughter will have a tough decision to make when it's time. I feel your pain.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Even if the dog medications and the human medications are the same how do you know what the proper dosages should be? What if you're 200 lbs and the dog is 20 lbs? Do you really think the dog dose is the same as the human dose?

Most people seldom need an antibiotic. Doctors proscribe them because their patients want them. As far as I know I've never had to take an antibiotic to fight an infection. You have to know the kind of infection, what antibiotic to take, and what dosage. Buying fish antibiotics for your home aquarium seems really stupid for human use when the vast majority of people have no idea what they're doing with antibiotics.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm no doctor but my wife is a vet. I don't know enough about drugs to say much except I agree with BillS on possible problems with fish antibiotics, some of those things just aren't as (clean) as what's used for people, if a fish died lawsuits are unlikely, and some probably just don't help.

With drugs in general I really don't think there is any rule of thumb to scale up or down for weights and doses across breeds, sometimes it does and some times it doesn't. Some horse medications will kill people fast.

Buyer beware, take this at your own risk because it may not be across the board and if someone else knows better feel free to chime in, she did say that expiration dates aren't as big of a deal as it's made to be (me paraphrasing), they don't turn toxic but they could and probably will loose effectiveness over time. For major drugs or with Dr.s use the doses have to be specific but if you are stock piling Tylenol or a general pain take as you need med I wouldn't think it would be bad to have out of date bottles if stored properly.


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## WSSps (Sep 30, 2016)

You really don't need to know how to use the drugs. Find someone who does or have a comprehensive book on hand. You also may not be the one who needs them. Maybe a sick child or neighbor?? Post SHTF, bacteria may be a problem. While someone may have never needed it up to now, it may be different if you drink bacteria filled water or cannot get a wound cleaned properly. If needs must, it's a trading tool too.

I say have them on hand and stored properly. If you dis agree, then don't store or have them. I'll share though when the chips are down.

WSS


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## DFrost (Jan 12, 2014)

Heard a good lecture a while back by Dr. Bones and Nurse Amy (I accidently deleted the notes from my phone, so I can't give you their full names) and they were talking on this exact subject. Most pharmas don't bother making separate medications, they simply remarket to the vet suppliers. They also spoke at length on a DoD study about effective expiration dates. They are usually years past what the manufacturer says. They keep the expirations short to boost sales and to prevent lawsuits.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Tweto said:


> BTW I had surgery 4 days ago and am still without pain, so what do I do with 40 Oxycodone pills. Because I'm a prepper, I hesitate throwing them out, just in case I may really need them during SHTF.


Store in a cool, dry, dark place.

Many critter meds are the same as human meds. Check the PDR. If a med is the same color shape and has the same markings it is the same med. Certain meds may have different markings from different manufacturers but if you find it in the PDR then it is a human med whether it is in a bottle labeled for critters or humans. Different dosages will also look different.

I am not doctor but I did watch someone on TV last night pretend to be one.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Tweto said:


> One of my dogs was sick 2 weeks ago and the vet gave us "Carafate" to give him. The next week my wife had a endoscopy and her doctor gave her "Carafate" to take. Same medicine. What would be interesting to know is if the same manufacturer made both human and dog meds.
> 
> At the same time as one of my dogs was sick we found out that our other dog had cancer and the vet gave us a drug named "Tramadol" to take away his pain.
> 
> ...


 Sorry Tweto, hope things get better for yall. Sometimss it seems like hell is on earth.:wave:


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

BillS said:


> Even if the dog medications and the human medications are the same how do you know what the proper dosages should be? What if you're 200 lbs and the dog is 20 lbs? Do you really think the dog dose is the same as the human dose?
> 
> You can learn everything you need to know about a drug & then some in a nurse's drug book like this. They are cheap & plentiful. Check the thrift stores at the end of the year when the new books come out. The Pill Book, often available at Walmart for $5 isn't bad either. https://www.amazon.com/Nursing2016-...UTF8&qid=1477050988&sr=8-5&keywords=Drug+book
> 
> Most people seldom need an antibiotic. Doctors proscribe them because their patients want them. As far as I know I've never had to take an antibiotic to fight an infection. You have to know the kind of infection, what antibiotic to take, and what dosage. Buying fish antibiotics for your home aquarium seems really stupid for human use when the vast majority of people have no idea what they're doing with antibiotics.


I agree. However, in a SHTF situation, the situation will be different. People will be working with equipment they're not used to working with & doing a lot more manual work. They'll likely be getting wounded more than they do now, increasing the likelihood of infection. Also, supplies could be lacking to properly clean & keep clean a wound (running water, soap, larger bandages, stitches, etc). The lack of nutritious food (especially protein) & the stress of the situation create a situation where people may succumb to bacteria that would've been no problem in today's world. It's better to have something & not need it than need it & not have it.


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## IceFire (Feb 24, 2016)

While many animal meds are the same as human meds, there are some that you absolutely DO NOT want to give to another species. (Tylenol, for example, will completely destroy the liver of a dog or cat. It's not the best thing for YOUR liver, either). 

Medication dosages are figured in x milligrams of medication per y kilograms of body weight. A good PDR (Physician's Desk Reference) will have the formulae for the different meds, as well as possible side effects, etc.


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