# Any 300 winchester magnum gurus?/rifle question.



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm a bit dense on reloading,does anyone have any "pet"loads for this caliber that are safe?

I'm fireing a Savage Weather warrior in this caliber,I've read on this forum about Savage rifles being prone to breaking certain parts,anyone know which parts I should tuck away as spares?also,I'm looking to have a gunsmith put some iron sights on it because if the scope goes dead its useless.about how much would that cost?


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Magus said:


> I'm a bit dense on reloading,does anyone have any "pet"loads for this caliber that are safe?
> 
> I'm fireing a Savage Weather warrior in this caliber,I've read on this forum about Savage rifles being prone to breaking certain parts,anyone know which parts I should tuck away as spares?also,I'm looking to have a gunsmith put some iron sights on it because if the scope goes dead its useless.about how much would that cost?


The only problem I've ever seen with Savage is the extractor, the 'Claw' that pulls the empty casing from the chamber after it's fired.

Do you happen to know the twist rate of your barrel?
(usually about 1 turn in 12", or expressed as 1:12)

Anyway, I shoot most of the popular .300 Mag chamberings, from Weatherby, Winchester, Remington, H&H, ect. and they all work REALLY well for everything up to the most dangerous game.
(If I were hunting seriously dangerous game, I'd jump up to a .338 Mag.)

I'm a particular fan of the Winchester .300 Mag and even the Winchester .300 Short Mag.

If you want 'Pet' loads, you will have to tell me what you intend to hunt... Hogs to Elk, Bear to Moose, ect.?

For Factory Ammo, It's just really hard to beat Winchester Premium ammo.
Winchester is an ammunition company first and foremost, and licenses the Winchester name to firearms makers.
Poke around the Winchester website and see if you find anything that helps you understand what cartridge will do what...
http://www.winchester.com/products/...ww.hornady.com/ballistics/hits_calculator.php


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I intend to use it for deer,black bear and wild hogs,and if need be,long range defense.I have a small supply of hornady match king and some match grade brass,but I've never loaded them in hopes of getting more skill at reloading,I can make "by the book"loads but I don't variate from the manual,I'm not skilled enough yet.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Magus said:


> I intend to use it for deer,black bear and wild hogs,and if need be,long range defense.I have a small supply of hornady match king and some match grade brass,but I've never loaded them in hopes of getting more skill at reloading,I can make "by the book"loads but I don't variate from the manual,I'm not skilled enough yet.


That means you are already smarter than the average 'Gun Pro' that comes down the pike!
Most of those guys pack as much into a case as they can get, then get pissed off when it ruins the gun or they can't hit a bull in the butt with it! 

Smart money will stay with the listed loads in most of the reloading manuals.
Tinker with the powder charge a little, up & down, you might find that just a couple of grains one way or the other will make the rifle shoot like a laser, and a couple the other way makes it scatter the rounds like a shot gun!

Has anyone told you how to break in a barrel or clean your barrel yet?
More good barrels have been ruined by improper cleaning than anything else,
And right behind that is bad break in procedure...

Start with breaking in the barrel.
Some 'Target' rounds whipped up is the best way to do this, using heavy, full power rounds to break in and burnish the barrel is a waste of time, money, your ear drums and your shoulder!

Crank out about 40 or 50 lower power rounds, and take all your cleaning gear to the range.
Clean the CRAP out of the barrel, get every last speck of copper and powder fouling out, then you can start break in.

Fire one or two rounds, then clean the rifle.
Fire another one or two rounds, clean the rifle again,
I normally fire ONE round, then clean, fire another round, then clean for the first 10 rounds,

Then I fire TWO rounds, then clean for the next 10 rounds.

The barrel should be burnishing it's self, and the barrel should be cleaning MUCH faster by the time you get to 20 rounds fired.

You should also have your optics about zeroed in by the time you reach 20 rounds.
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If your barrel IS NOT cleaning much faster by the time you get the first 20 through it,
Then fire two, clean, fire two, clean again for 10 rounds...
You should be able to clean that barrel VERY easily by the time you reach 30 rounds!
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The idea is,
As the barrel is getting machined on the inside, the cutting tools leave chatter marks, scratches, burrs of metal sticking up and out of the rifling, and there will be pits in the metal.

All of that is natural, and can't be avoided,
SO!,
You fire a copper jacketed round, and it grabs some of the burrs and takes them out with it.
The metal burrs will SCRATCH the bore as they exit embedded in the copper of the bullet.

The more rounds you fire, then clean, then fire again, then clean again,
The more you 'Burnish' the pits, holes, scratches, ect down.
Kind of like polishing the bore, but you are doing it with bullets.
*IF* you do it correctly, pretty soon the barrel will clean much easier becuse you have made the barrel very slick by burnishing the bad spots!

All those little pits, scratches, holes, chatter marks, ect. can no longer hold great quantities of copper and powder residue... and the barrel shoots better and cleans faster!
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Once you have the barrel broken in correctly, 
You will find as the process goes on, the groups you are shooting will get tighter and tighter as the barrel 'Breaks In'!

Then you will find an odd thing that happens with rifles, and I can't exactly explain it, 
BUT,
You will need 'Fouling Shots' to get your rifle to shoot right on target each time.

My favorite .300 Weatherby mag takes about 9 or 10 fouling shots before the barrel just starts driving tacks, and once it's fouled, I can shoot 12" to 18" groups at 1,000 Yards all day long with nothing more than a oiled swab run down the barrel every 10 rounds or so...

I've heard a lot of 'Theories' why this is, but I can't say any of them are, or are not, accurate.

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With a properly Burnished & Broken In barrel, you can clean it with just a few (4 or 5) patches and it will give you MUCH longer service life over a barrel with copper and powder residue scratching and distorting the bullet before it even leaves the muzzle!


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

You should ALWAYS clean the barrel from the CHAMBER SIDE!

NEVER STICK A HUNK OF METAL DOWN THE MUZZLE!

Most guys, especally cops and the 'Militia' types like to use a military cleaning rod that is screwed together STEEL sections,
So when they set up on the competition tables and stick that steel rod down the muzzle and you can hear every section taking a chunk out of the muzzle crown edge... (Click-Click-Click-Click) on the way in...

...All I can think of is, "Thanks for donating your money to the prize bucket!"

Clean from the breech.
Take the bolt out, buy or make a chamber guide, and clean from the back side...

If you just MUST go down the muzzle, make sure you have a ONE PIECE rod, preferably coated with something like Teflon so it doesn't bite pieces out of the muzzle crown!

You see,
As the bullet exits the barrel, ANY scratch, knick, cut or whatever, will allow a gas jet to kick the back of the bullet to one side or another.
Boat tail bullets will help keep this exit gas blast from doing maximum damage, but not everyone uses boat tail bullets!

Clean from the breech and you won't have nearly the problem with gas jetting the back of the bullet around!
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Now, you can make a bore guide with nothing more than a fired case and a piece of steel tubing.
Drill the case primer hole out large enough for your bore brush to easily go through,
Then silver solder the brass to a steel tube that will clear the back of the receiver.
OR,
You can buy a version that will do several different calibers.

The hand built version with a brass that was fired from the rifle you want to use it on will be the best sealing/seating you can have...
But it's time consuming to build.

The store bought ones look better and are easier to use, but they don't seal as well.

If you don't understand what I'm talking about, let me know and I'll take some pictures and show you...
This can be a little daunting when you first start out with it, but I'll be glad to help you figure it out if you want to do it correctly!
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I know this is the bench shooter and Marine coming out in me, but there is no such thing as 'Too Clean' of a rifle, 
(Discounting fouling shots) so don't be afraid to clean your rifle and then clean it again in a couple of days...
You would be surprised what you missed the first time and the bore solvent soaked loose in the past 48 hours!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Ah!now this is useful info!
I knew about breaking a bore in but never heard of fouling shots before.

I only use aluminum or brass rods in my guns,coated if I can find them or a "bore snake"made of nylon.

I learned to polish a dark bore some years ago using pearl drops toothpaste,an oversize bore brush and a electric drill,they always shot well afterward,would that break in a bore?


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Magus said:


> Ah!now this is useful info!
> I knew about breaking a bore in but never heard of fouling shots before.


I didn't have any idea about fouling shots before I joined the Marines and would up getting trained for 'Long Range Marksman'.

Every rifle will have it's own 'Fouling' amount.
For my heavy .308 it's close to 10 rounds before it pulls in for good groups,
With my .300 Weatherby bench rifle, it's 4 or 5 fouling shots before it's ready to go, and that's about average for most 'Hot Bore' shooting.

I have a little bolt .223 Rem. that it only takes 2 rounds before it's ready to go.

If you are hunting, you want zero your rifle for a 'Cold Bore' shot.
It's time consuming, becuase you have to sit and wait for the rifle to cool down before you can fire the next round in your group!

I usually take two or three for 'Cold Bore' sight in shots, so I can fire one, clear it off the table and set up another rifle, and then another rifles...
That helps pass the time waiting for the barrel to cool for the next round...

If you sight in all in one afternoon, then you expect your rifle to hit something with a 'Cold Bore' the next day, you WILL miss!
Cold, clean bores NEVER shoot where you think they are going to unless you actually take the time to let the barrel cool down between shots!



> I only use aluminum or brass rods in my guns,coated if I can find them or a "bore snake"made of nylon.


Aluminum can rub off in the bore, 
I stick with a highly polished stainless steel once piece rod,
Or a coated one piece rod.
'Micro' polished one piece rod doesn't have anyplace to 'Bite' the muzzle...
You have to keep up with the coated rods, solids that can be abrasive can embed in the coating and scratch things.
I've usually got a rag wrapped around mine to clean it off every stroke.

*The easy way to save your muzzle crown is to clean from the breech.*



> I learned to polish a dark bore some years ago using pearl drops toothpaste,an oversize bore brush and a electric drill,they always shot well afterward,would that break in a bore?


No. All polishing does is buff out the HIGH or TIGHT spots.
What fire lapping or break in does is polish the nicks, scratches, ect. out of the LOW, or spots that are over sized.

A scratch, pit, tool mark, ARE BY DEFINITION, "OVER SIZE".
Although Over Size, they still have sharp edges, still get copper and powder forced into them.
Clean & Sharp, they carve up the bullet, gouging it or removing weight from its outer jacket, making it fly stupid or making it impossible for it to cut the air properly.

If you clean like crazy between shots, making sure there is no copper or powder residue there to hide the sharp edges or fill in the pits, scratches, ect.,
Then firing, cleaning, firing, cleaning, firing, cleaning will smooth all those sharp edges down and remove the burrs left by machining.

The process of smoothing out the scratches, pits, tool marks, ect. is called Burnishing... And it should be part of the break in process for center fire rifles.
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As for pearl drops and drill,
You can polish a rusty chamber that way, but the bore where the rifling is, you need to polish that with an 'In & Out' stroking motion so your polishing pad moves with the rifling.

Rotary tool in the rifling will wear the rifling ridges (Lands) down more than the rest of the bore,
And it will take the sharp edges off the rifling.
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How we used to hone out a tight spot in the rifling,

And early hammer forged barrels had tight spots fairly frequently, 
Where the barrel would under size the bullet, then the bullet would 'Rattle' down the barrel from the tight spot to the muzzle and that barrel would never be accurate the way it was...

SO,
We would take a bore brush, put that in the barrel,
Pour some molten lead in around/through that brush,
And as the lead hardened, it would set up around that brush and make a barrel size plug connected to the brush/rod.

You could add an abrasive (I've used toothpaste, car paint rubbing compound, valve grinding paste, ect.) and stroke the tight spots out of the bore with that lead covered brush.
*It's called HAND LAPPING a barrel.*

I almost forgot, your rod should have a ball bearing handle on it, so the brush can follow rifling...
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With modern pull through button rifling, there aren't any tight spots, you would have to find an older hammer forged barrel to find tight spots.
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There are a couple of products you can use to 'Fire Lap' your barrel.
One is bullets impregnated with an abrasive,
You fire progressively finer abrasive bullets down the barrel, and as you do, it's supposed to polish the barrel.

I don't much care for that idea.
I'm sure the pressure behind the bullet is distorting that bullet, and I'm also equally sure that distortion is grinding away at parts of my barrel that don't need it...
*Like the edges of my rifling!*

There are pastes you can apply to your own copper jacketed bullets.
I think this is a bad idea for the same reason.
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Usually, if you don't have an old military firearm,
You won't have problems with 'Tight' spots in the barrel.
The days of the singular hammer forging creating the rifling alone are long gone.

Some barrels are hammer forged into general shape,
Then button rifled for an EXACT fit, but most are just CNC drilled blanks that are pull through rifled, and that particular process doesn't allow for 'Tight' spots.
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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Wow!this is some great stuff!were you an armorer?

I don't suppose you could give an estimate on how many rounds a stainless barell could handle before its time to retire it?its only had 3-4 boxes through it so far,300 magnum ammo blasts $$$ signs every time you pull the trigger.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Please visit our sister site at http://www.FireArmsTalk.com to continue this discussion.

Thank you,

Moderator


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