# Survival firearms



## rider1k (Apr 13, 2012)

I spent the day today at the range. Shooting rounds from my Glock 21SF in .45 auto, my mini 14 in .223, and my 10/22 with archangel tactical furniture. Loads of fun shooting everything from zombie rats to zombie folks lol. The thought has often crossed my mind on what firearms would be ideal in say a bug in vs bug out. I also have other firearms in 7mm rem mag. 300 Weatherby . 250 Savage. Various 12 gauges and a 20 gauge. I'm thinking my choice for bug in would be the 12 gauge with 00 buck, 10/22 and .45 auto. As I'd think any encounters would be pretty close up. But to bug out I'm not sure. Always the .45 auto! But confused on the taking of either the 10/22 vs the mini14.... Do I grab a shot gun? If so a 12 or 20 ga? I'd think in a stay home situation it would be more of a defensive situation whereas in a leave home it might be both a hunting for food/defensive situation. Just curious as to what y'all might take.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I like to keep it simple.
One rifle, one reliable handgun.

I have a revolver ( super simple and tolreant of poor ammo and variations in loads) and an AR 15.
if I wasnt already so well trained on the AR I would have probably bought an AK due to their inherent robustness, ease of maintenance and reliablity.

Shotguns are very fashionable as of late but I think their limitations are severe enough and the ammo expensive enough that I dont want to buy one.
I also like ot limit myself on having to store only a limited very number of calibers, that way whenever i see a good deal I can buy a lot.


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## rider1k (Apr 13, 2012)

I hear what you're saying. I like my Glock because of capacity/ fast reload and I've shot everything from +P to really cheap bulk ammo and have yet to have a failure. Shot gun I'm thinking would stay at home. I like the 10/22 for a few reasons. It's very accurate, fast shooting, light, and can put the hurt on anything from quail to deer if your careful. I'd say that would include intruders at closer ranges as well . Been thinking about an AR. I have a mini14. But there is alot of strong opinions from owners of both on which is better. My experience with the AR is limited to a tower gun when I was a CO. (Only shot it to qualify for duty use ). Never shot or even held an AK for that matter. We here in Cali can now buy an AR but I don't know about an AK.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I like AK's I have owned one before and I have also owned a couple Glocks before ( loved 'em)
There is also a irrational attraction I guess i have to revolver having to do with this chunk of machined steel in my hand.. 

I am quite good with an AR which is why I got one..
and they <do> look better than an AK...

Some of the american assembled AK's are almost as accurate as an AR though.
Like i said if I wasnt so good with an AR already I would have gotten an AK , maybe in 5.45 mm.
Also AK's are more tolerant of Amma that uses cheaper materials.. with rising prices of Ammo that's a consideration also..

I think AK's can be bought in Cali now but limited in magazine capacity.. you can only buy a maximum number or rds magazines.. it may be 10 or so.. best to ask a cali guy


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

The ultimate long term survival firearm is a single or double barrel 12 gage shotgun. Twelve gage ammo comes in every configuration from bird shot to slugs capable of taking down a Kodack Bear. You can reload the shells by hand without any special tools and as long as you have primers available, you can even muzzle load it with black powder. Slug shots are accurate out to 100 yards. If I only had one weapon to hunt with and /or defend myself with, it would be a shotgun.


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## rider1k (Apr 13, 2012)

I tend to like a pump with say 18 1/2 " barrel . And for home defense I can't imagine a better platform than something like a 12 ga. But in a woods type survival situation I might grab the 10/22. Greater reach and ammo is cheap and very light weight. Could pack a thousand rounds or even three for that matter, without being weighed down


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

When you say "survival", it would help to know what it is you think you will be using the firearms for - defense, offense, or simply putting food in the pot. There's a BIG difference between those three and there is no firearm that meets the needs of all three equally well.


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## Phoenix1 (Mar 2, 2012)

Jezcruzen said:


> When you say "survival", it would help to know what it is you think you will be using the firearms for - defense, offense, or simply putting food in the pot. There's a BIG difference between those three and there is no firearm that meets the needs of all three equally well.


Different tools in the toolbox, so to speak. Unless you have a fallback location (not talking running into the woods, either) why leave?


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

IMHO I would go with the .45 for close defense and the .223 for your rifle. It has much better range and power the the .22 and you can carry hundreds of rounds vs. the dozens of 12 gauge for the same weight. Also, for small game hunting throw a slingshot in your bag. They are only 10 bucks or so and as long as you have small rocks you have endless ammo supply for practice and hunting. When I was little I killed quite a few birds and small critters with my slingshot and its also very quiet. I'm not sure if you could take out people or not cause I wasn't allowed to hunt my brother. Although he definitely deserved it!! :}


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

Honestly this is going to sound stupid to some people but if you are going to have a gun that you just use to put food on the table I'd choose a high powered BB gun/pellet gun. Why you ask? One word...Silence. If all you are doing is putting birds and squirrels on the table then the last thing you need is to let everyone know where you are and that you have food. Of course, if I had the option, I would have an AR in 338 lupua or .308 if I had to "reach out and touch someone" also. But for small game I'd go with something that would leave me undetected.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

I don't think there is a perfect single gun for every purpose. Scenarios for feeding you and yours, vs defending oneself or ones family against a group of looters or marauders vs defending oneself against a dedicated zombie hoarde attack can require different tools to accomplish the goal. A single shot .22 will do well to put food in the pot, but not do much against something resembling the tet offensive. An ar15 tricked out with a beta mag, laser, and 58 power night vision scope with a bipod can be a little hard to tote around, especially when foraging for berries. 

Personal protection in a scenario where law and order have completely broken down would require being armed at all times. The 1911 fills that bill nicely. As far as long gun goes, shotguns and rifles are 2 different animals. I'd go with a single shot shotgun and think long and hard about an sks carbine. They are both generally simple, robust, able to take game up to a bear, and have enough versatility to accomplish multiple missions. Also, the single shot shotgun is easy to make safe, and it's easy to train the uninitiated how to use it safely and effectively. If I had room for only one, I'd probably opt for the sks.


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## Luke1 (Mar 26, 2012)

Has anyone considered a decent airsoft rifle? Should be powerfull enough for small game and the "bullets" are so light you could pack tens of thousands of them and not have that much extra weight.

For personal defense id go with .45 for sure and id bring my 1300 defender as well for the chancd at bigger game.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Luke1 said:


> Has anyone considered a decent airsoft rifle? Should be powerfull enough for small game and the "bullets" are so light you could pack tens of thousands of them and not have that much extra weight.
> 
> For personal defense id go with .45 for sure and id bring my 1300 defender as well for the chancd at bigger game.


A good quality pellet gun works fine for rabbits and quail and such, airsoft stuff won't work tho. Force equals mass time acceleration, so I've shot small birds, the airsoft pellets just bounce off.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

If it's a bug in scenario, you'd have them all at your disposal right? So you'd only need to choose as a particular situation presents itself.. ie: 2 zombies banging on your door trying to gain entry.. or a loud noise in the middle of the night. Just don't take too long to decide... those zombies can get through a door quicker than you might think! lol..

If it's a bug out scenario and you're going to be hoofin it through the woods, and weight matters, I'd take your glock, and your 10/22. The 10/22 is so versatile, you can use it for just about anything including self defense as long as the zombies aren't wearing body armor. Also, as others have mentioned, you can carry a thousand rounds without worrying about weight. No offense to those who suggested a BB/airsoft gun. I get what they are saying and a good BB gun might be an option for a bug in scenario, or at your final bug out location for some quiet hunting... but if you're hoofin it, why would you carry the extra weight because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want a BB/airsoft as your only long gun right? I know I wouldn't. I do like the idea of picking up a slingshot! Lightweight, cheap, rocks for ammo.. win/win!

Oh and in regard to the 10/22.. If I were going to bug out with it, I'd look into some of the specialty ammo they make in .22 and might have a "special" clip loaded with said ammo in case I needed it.


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## Luke1 (Mar 26, 2012)

FatTire said:


> A good quality pellet gun works fine for rabbits and quail and such, airsoft stuff won't work tho. Force equals mass time acceleration, so I've shot small birds, the airsoft pellets just bounce off.


Thanks for clarifying that, much appreciated.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

FatTire said:


> A good quality pellet gun works fine for rabbits and quail and such, airsoft stuff won't work tho. Force equals mass time acceleration, so I've shot small birds, the airsoft pellets just bounce off.


Mass x velocity squared equals impact.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

RevWC said:


> Mass x velocity squared equals impact.


its not squared..

bullet energy = mass x velocity
:beercheer:

PS: You are thinking of when you deal w/ accelaration like with a rocket, or a piece of lead weight falling against earths gravity.
earths gravity being at 9.81 m/second squared (before any sharpshooters point it out, yes inside the atmosphere this will be modified by the resistance by air)
Squaring the second is ONLY applied to accelerating objects


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Physics 101
F=ma
V=a^2t


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

RevWC said:


> Mass x velocity squared equals impact.


"impact", actualy 'moment of impact' is the product of mass, velocity, and time. This is why boxing gloves do more long term damage given the same initial velocity than bare fists, the increase the moment of impact, same logic applies to hollow points...


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## OHprepper (Feb 21, 2012)

I like my 1911 for a sidearm. it has stopping power, and a lot of people have .45 ACP. If i was you i would use the .223 setup for a long gun. like a lot of guys on here i had a whole lotta training and experience on the AR, so thats what i would personally use. And as many have said, they ability to carry several hundred rounds comfortable just can't be beat. As for hunting game, i have a screw on TAC16 suppressor for the AR. It's well worth the money, and when fired with subsonics it's about as noisy as a loud pellet gun. I do realize not everyone can get them based on their state of residence. however, maybe in time. coyote hunters have made the popularity of them skyrocket, which helps out the rest of us who want them for a SHTF scenario. that being said, those are what i would use for bug out. for bug in i have several things. shotguns and 7.62 would be primaries, i just wouldnt want to carry the ammo anywhere. and the bottom line is the firearm you are trained the most on should be the one you choose. the ability to disassemble, clean, reassemble, fire, and perform malfunctions corrections while sleep deprived or fatigued cannot be stressed enough. anyway, i am rambling. best of luck.


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## gaspump86 (May 5, 2012)

OHprepper said:


> I like my 1911 for a sidearm. it has stopping power, and a lot of people have .45 ACP. If i was you i would use the .223 setup for a long gun. like a lot of guys on here i had a whole lotta training and experience on the AR, so thats what i would personally use. And as many have said, they ability to carry several hundred rounds comfortable just can't be beat. As for hunting game, i have a screw on TAC16 suppressor for the AR. It's well worth the money, and when fired with subsonics it's about as noisy as a loud pellet gun. I do realize not everyone can get them based on their state of residence. however, maybe in time. coyote hunters have made the popularity of them skyrocket, which helps out the rest of us who want them for a SHTF scenario. that being said, those are what i would use for bug out. for bug in i have several things. shotguns and 7.62 would be primaries, i just wouldnt want to carry the ammo anywhere. and the bottom line is the firearm you are trained the most on should be the one you choose. the ability to disassemble, clean, reassemble, fire, and perform malfunctions corrections while sleep deprived or fatigued cannot be stressed enough. anyway, i am rambling. best of luck.


This is my first time commenting on a post on this forum. IM not even sure if this is the right way to do it.(IM using my Droid) on with my comment.
I like the idea of only carrying one kind of ammo. I don't plan on engaging anything/one past 100yds. .22 is a little light, i know it can do the job and there are pros and cons just like everything else. That being said, these are the two weapons that i own for edc/bug out situation.
Pistol: S&W sigma 9mm. It is just as reliable as a Glock, you could teach your 6 year old to field strip it,it holds 16 rds., and it is under $300. 
Rifle/carbine: HI-POINT 995TSFLFG
It is very reliable, relatively light, accepts accessories, i payed $329 with the flashlight&VFG(Vertical foregrip), accurate to 100 yds., it is a pain in the butt to field strip though, that being said you only need to do it every 1000 rds. Or so, 10 rd. Factory magazine is the worst factor in my opinion, it works well just not enough. 
9mm is pretty cheap and about half the weight of. 45
What do you guys and girls think of my rig?


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

gaspump86 said:


> This is my first time commenting on a post on this forum. IM not even sure if this is the right way to do it.(IM using my Droid) on with my comment.
> I like the idea of only carrying one kind of ammo. I don't plan on engaging anything/one past 100yds. .22 is a little light, i know it can do the job and there are pros and cons just like everything else. That being said, these are the two weapons that i own for edc/bug out situation.
> Pistol: S&W sigma 9mm. It is just as reliable as a Glock, you could teach your 6 year old to field strip it,it holds 16 rds., and it is under $300.
> Rifle/carbine: HI-POINT 995TSFLFG
> ...


There's alot of people on this forum that will disagree me on this, but I concentrate on 9mm and .223. I have more .22lr then any other round and I don't need any more. If I thought things were going south in the next few weeks or a month (if I was smart enough to see it) I would pick up a semiauto rifle in the .308 range. The reason for the .308 is the penetration. Shoot thur cars, walls, brick walls, etc. I watching a history channel show about Bonnie and Clyde and there weapon of choice was the B.A.R. When the feds tracked them down Bonnie and Clyde leveled there B.A.R.'s on them and killed a few and put others in the hospital. They shot right through the cars and one of the feds was put in the hospital from wood splinters from the tree he was standing behind. Bonnie was just walking up to the tree while unloading the the rifle at the tree. The fed later said that the only thing that saved him was that Bonnie had run out of ammo.

Let the arguments begin.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

308 has great penetration, no doubt about that one! Here is what I have and of course I am just getting to my land in east tennessee from wherever I am and bugging in there! 22LR for times when you want to be quieter than a high power rifle, bolt action 30-06 with a Leupold Mark 4 scope, Stag arms 4HL 5.56 AR with a BDC scope, Beretta CX4 with red dot scope chambered in 45acp and a ruger .45 semi auto pistol, went with the CX4 in 45acp so the ammo would be the same for both pistol and carbine. Since hunting and defense would my primary goal the 30-06 is for "reach out and touch"! inside say a few hundreds yards the AR is a constant star performer. Once inside 100 yards the CX4 is great, depending on the situation I have a a few choices, it is a lot of different ammo flavors but a well stocked closet covers problem well! I also have a couple of shotguns, pump and single shot with several loads to choose from there as well along with my wifes little pistols too. If I only had to go with a couple I would say a 22LR and an AR and always a pistol too! Just my opinion and my tool box!

For the record, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer here! It is how you feel with your firearm, someone could be just a deadly to that "deer" with a 22LR as they could with a 308! If one is comfortable with it the firearm will better perform for them!


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## on_the_rox (Jul 17, 2011)

I have a Browning Buckmark camper for a pistol and a Marlin model 60 for a rifle in 22lr. i think these and a nice lite 1000 rounds of ammo would get me far. This is the lite way to go. If needing to add extra firepower I would probably choose a pump 12 guage and a 308 rifle. Just my thoughts.


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## hayseed (Apr 22, 2012)

this might be the one thread where we are all right.lol.
you look young fit and sturdy so you may have the luxury of bringing more stuff than me and my dear old bugout buddies who are over the hill and under the weather. bugging in you might go with what you have most confidense in. i'll die before i'm ever trapped again so i'm a bugout guy. i have to base everything on what i can carry and what will be available to take.make a passable suppressor for your .22 and carry a brick to trade and hunt. i love the .45 and .223 only because i know that they will knock your ---k in the dirt. zombie or no zombi and they will be available. i have a 223 single shot with scope for 2 or 3 hundred yards if it come to it but we have heavy cover here so thats the max. you may be in the open. just in case, one of us has a 338 for cutting firewood and zombies behind rocks.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm seriously eying the new glock carbine conversion and forgetting the arsenal until I get to camp.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

ive seen this mention in other threas and on other boards, and it always sticks in my craw. personaly, i would be very leary of trading anyone for anything, whan what i give them can be used to take my dna out the game. if you have the ammo, that gives you the advantage, either because you have the capacity to kill food, or simply just denying others that particular method of killing you. my personal tule is that i wont barter stuff you can use to do me harm.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

IMHO, if I had to walk in a bugout situation, I would pack a slingshot, 9mm pistol and .223 rifle. The slingshot is very quiet and has unlimited ammo as long as you can find rocks. Great for small critter hunting. The 9mm because a glock 17 is far lighter than a .45 glock 21 when fully loaded and the magazines hold more rounds. The ammo you can use in 9mm has similar ballistic hurt potential as a .45 and you can carry lots more. The .223 for large game hunting and self defense. When loaded they weigh far less than an ak or .308 assault rifle and after humping around for a few days you will feel every ounce of weight. In a bug in the weight won't matter as much so break out the .50 cal barrett!!


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## TraumaHawk2011 (Apr 23, 2012)

Mossberg 500 persuader 12 g Shotgun, Beretta PX4 40 s&w. Smith & Wesson Bodyguard 380, large knife and battle axe


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## scoot (Feb 19, 2012)

glock 22 , kel tec sub 2000 40cal takes glock 22mags and 10/22


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## gaspump86 (May 5, 2012)

scoot said:


> glock 22 , kel tec sub 2000 40cal takes glock 22mags and 10/22


The Glock and Kel tec sub2k is a nice rig...problem ..... sub2k is picky about what ammo it likes and doesn't like! But having a carbine and pistol that take the same magazines is awesome ..... and the .40 hi caps hold what ...25rds?


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## chris88idaho (Apr 30, 2012)

I'd say 5.56 AR-15 is hands down best light all around fire arm. Light weight ammo, you can carry lots of it. Bullet tumbles on impact due to high velocity and small mass. Bullets also follow bones, ie shot in knee and it pops out neck. Side arm I like Springfield 1911 .45 jams less than colt. for close quarters .45 takes people down 9 mm just zips through. Camping in bear country I pack a marlin guide .45-70 gov. 515 grains of fun (use ear plugs)- that monster will kill anything upto and including an buffalo.


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## SuspectZero (Feb 3, 2011)

I think what you carry is up to personal preferances. The OP asked about a shotgun. I think a 12 gauge is great for overall uses. I cant hunt with a rifle in this great state so am forced to train with my shotguns more. The 12 has a load of different shot you can use and slugs do the job when hunting larger game. For home defense I use a smaller shot to avoid over penetration. I dont care how tough you are, even bird shot will get your attention and not risk going into other rooms. Ammo is cheap so you can train alot.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Three gun kit:
AR-15 and 22LR conversion kit
92-F
Remington 870+ extra choke.
Cold steel bushmaster and para knife.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Survival gun depends on likely targets.

Backwoods: Shotgun + .22 rifle works 95% of the time. A bolt gun + scope is cheap enough to be stupid to do without. A handgun is nice as a backup (bedside or milling around other people) and as a discrete option.

Suburban and urban: Semi-auto is the way to go. Cops and thugs agree. I remember FerFAL's story about 14-17rd 9mm easily reloaded vs. revolver. Louis Awerbuck advises against revolvers due to their failure modes being catastrophic vs. a quality semi-auto failure drills.

Make sure your choice can work a vehicle--inside one or against one. Ammo choice is paramount for the smaller calibers. Larger calibers are more forgiving. Shotguns take a back seat, but they can be useful.

None of the above works well with sub-standard ammo.

I choose 5.56 + 9mm in semi, and a .308 bolt for all the above. I have a nice shotgun, FN SLP 18", but it would be a backup or alternate firearm.


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