# Global Dust Veils, Harvest Failure Preparedness



## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

I am not survivalist or a prepper but I have been studying something that has huge consequences for your community and their economic and political plans. The implications of a global dust veil and the resulting harvest failure due to nuclear war, comets and asteroids, or super volcanoes can not be prepared for by bunkers or storing food, as many of your constituents hope to do. Please come to my website and read my page on the subject.



I do not intend to engage further with your community (no offense) but please post this to others. As you will read lone survival is not an option

Thank you


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Gee. Not going to engage with the community but already knows we're doomed to fail. 

Another know it all that's going to save us. 

Personally, I'm glad you'll not be engaging with us. Go play on your own site with your own flock of sheep..


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Another fine participant of the put your head between your knees and kiss your butt goodbye movement. Due to his thought provoking post I hereby cast aside all further desire to prepare in any way and denounce all who do. He wrote a paper that is on the internet about this. He possibly could not be wrong!!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Survival Forum mobile app


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

Someone is just a bit on the "clueless side" about a good many things. I went to the page and read their blog. I did not realize that humans could not exist without electricity. Farm animals cannot live without electricity. The world could not go on without electricity. 

This is IMO, just a rambling eco-rant by a individual that was born and raised in a concrete utopia.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> I am not survivalist or a prepper but I have been studying something that has huge consequences for your community and their economic and political plans. The implications of a global dust veil and the resulting harvest failure due to nuclear war, comets and asteroids, or super volcanoes can not be prepared for by bunkers or storing food, as many of your constituents hope to do. Please come to my website and read my page on the subject.
> 
> I do not intend to engage further with your community (no offense) but please post this to others. As you will read lone survival is not an option
> 
> Thank you


Hmm ...

I have read books about some of the first settlers of north-america - they came with what we now consider primitive tools which they then used to cross the entire continent. I have read books about some of our classic "mountain men" - but - I have gone one step further than that by meeting and hanging out with some classic "mountain men" before they passed away. I learned to x-country ski when I was 5 years old from an "ancient" mountain-man who was born in the late 1800's ... he lived in the wilds of BritishColumbia till his passing. He did very well without the safety-net of society, but, he was still a social-person.

Ya know what - humans have survived for millions of years ... we have done well so far and we will continue to do well - as long as we are prepared to live that way.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

So did the all knowing ones web link get removed??? 
:scratch:scratch


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> I am not survivalist or a prepper but I have been studying something that has huge consequences for your community and their economic and political plans. The implications of a global dust veil and the resulting harvest failure due to nuclear war, comets and asteroids, or super volcanoes can not be prepared for by bunkers or storing food, as many of your constituents hope to do. Please come to my website and read my page on the subject.
> 
> I do not intend to engage further with your community (no offense) but please post this to others. As you will read lone survival is not an option
> 
> Thank you


Sounds like we are all doomed!!! This "dust veil" might just be the worst thing we will see, so, get out your credit card and send money.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Mods, Delete the troll's post. 

This sounds like he is just trying to get us all worked up and so far it seems to be working.


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

I was curious to see what the response to my post would be. I think you all missed the point that I was trying to make that the collapse of the nuclear industries would poison the surface. In other words a prepper might survive 30 or 40 years but future generations would suffer from mutation and disease. The cascade could cause the extinction of humanity. BUT by using the electricity and water grids and grow light technology it is possible for the majority of population to make it through, in fact necessary. I was trying to point out that we either all make it together (in the advanced nations) or we will all die. It is my position that if you are concerned about the events that cause 5 year or more global dust veils then direct your energies toward politicians and others in your movement. Let me be clear, I am not selling anything, I have no agenda. 

Oh and I clearly did cause offense by saying I don't want to engage with your community. I just was trying to introduce your community to my conclusions without pretending to be one of you. I can't see how that makes me a troll.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Oh, I think the point of your post was pretty clear, you want to drive traffic to your site to generate ad revenue.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Bah Bah Bah


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

No, I have no advertising, nor do I ever intend to. As my link was removed I am happy to re-post here in full:

Global Sunlight Reduction, Crop Failure: Lights are the Way Out

Martin on Jan 30th 2014



> Scientists, politicians and the general public have grown aware of the threat to the global human population caused by several different natural phenomena which interrupt the normal amount of sunshine reaching the surface of earth. Many have drawn the conclusion that one day our civilisation will face such a crisis that we will descend into a cannibalistic, freezing apocalypse out of which only the strong, well-prepared or extremely lucky will survive. However, it is the panicking and abandoning of our technology and running for the hills that would indeed condemn most of humanity to a horrible death.
> 
> The list of threats that could cause an interruption to sunlight reaching the surface is long. Super volcanoes such as the one under Yellow Stone or Whakamaru in the North Island of New Zealand will one day erupt creating universal harvest failure. Nuclear winter can be caused by even a limited exchange such as between India and Pakistan. A very similar effect is created by an impact from a large asteroid or comet. With the former we may get some warning. Our awareness of the threat asteroids pose and the availability of optics means that we are getting better at mapping our solar system and have even developed some convincing ways of dealing with a collision, given enough time. However, with the latter, the comets, we may not be so lucky. They come randomly and many have never been charted. They often cross our orbital path and so at some point in the future, without much more than a few months warning, we will face a catastrophe which obliterates most of the life on a continent and throws up fine aerosols into the upper atmosphere causing harvests to fail globally. What is certain, is that these threats will eventually materialise. It may take a thousand years or ten but the range and frequency of these catastrophes is well documented (all that except a nuclear war). Even in the mayfly-like existence of recorded human history, it has already happened.
> 
> ...


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Ok, so it looks like your 'plan' hinges on a few assumptions to be successful. First, that governments are actually interested in helping the majority of the people. This seems to me to be completely lacking any evidence, and in fact there is a lot of evidence to the contrary. Next, your 'plan' assumes that the vast majority of people will pull together, and everyone will put in the work to implement the plan. Again, this assumption seems to completely lack any evidence. The evidence we have is that those at the very top want to squeeze as much profit as possible out of those below them, and those at the bottom are perfectly content so suck up any excess the middle somehow still manages to scrape together, with the middle inexorably shrinking... a great many people are just giving up. 

So that pretty well sums up the human element, IMHO. There are far too few people who have a desire to help others, the willingness to do the work, and the wisdom to put aside differences to work together for a common goal. 

And one last thing, theres then the question of Liberty. Supposing your 'plan' is physically and technologically workable, when in the history of the human species has anyone built an advantage and not used it to enslave others? While I really dig utopian ideals, history teaches us that we should be very wary of anyone making grand promises... those grand promises most often involve mass graves and ovens designed to more efficiently incinerate human bodies...


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Again, I ask the mods to delete the thread.


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

I think there is a good deal of evidence for societies pulling together. The world wars saw great societal unity in the light of huge hardship and deprivation, especially outside the USA. 

But my point is that this is not a question wanting to do this. We as a civilization insure the masses against a 5 year or more global dust veil or we will someday go extinct due to one. 

Arguments about liberty and whether or not a nation wants to enact a plan like this is of little value if we or our children are all dead. Ignore me if you want. I stand by the science. 

Grimm, why are you trying to silence me over this issue? I am proposing a solution.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I don't plan on sharing any thing I have worked hard for with people like you.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

Well, if the disasters that he/she mentions actually happened, he/she is correct, growing food with artificial light would be and could be the only solution for life to continue. With no, or not enough natural sunlight penetrating the clouds, our plant food dies, followed by our meat food that relies on plant food. 

The presentation and writing style of the OP sucks, but the theory is decent. 

But at that point...I imagine life would end up like "the Road", and I might just join the cannibals. LOL


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Globaldustveil almost every member on this board has looked at these types of scenarios, and they have been discussed at length, volcanos are a long way down the danger list, economic failure is currently fairly high on the immediate action list. as to any form of government doing the right thing for the population I have little hope.

new "experts" get to pass a hazing process to see if you have any real knowledge and if you are emotionally stable enough to carry on a discussion.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Coastal said:


> Well, if the disasters that he/she mentions actually happened, he/she is correct, growing food with artificial light would be and could be the only solution for life to continue. With no, or not enough natural sunlight penetrating the clouds, our plant food dies, followed by our meat food that relies on plant food.
> 
> The presentation and writing style of the OP sucks, but the theory is decent.
> 
> But at that point...I imagine life would end up like "the Road", and I might just join the cannibals. LOL


Could always gain a taste for roaches as well - it has been said that the roach can survive just about anything, even nuclear fallout without any ill-effects. :eyebulge:


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

In 1816, "the year without a summer" Mount Tambora in the Pacific blew up sending up dust clouds that ruined harvests all over the world, particularly New England where my ancestors lived.

They made it or we wouldn't be here.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Grimm said:


> I don't plan on sharing any thing I have worked hard for with people like you.


You go, grrl!


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

VoorTrekker said:


> You go, grrl!


I will not let Roo go hungry so this Commie can eat because he will not prepare.


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

Geek999, that was a single year without a summer. Not from a super volcano or a comet. Such events cause harvests to fail for 5 years or more.

Luckily, Grimm no one is asking you for anything, certainly not me. 

Tirediron, granted many of your members have examined the phenomena I am detailing but I submit they have missed important points, especially about the effects of a sudden collapse on nuclear power plants. 

Prepping for other disasters is fine but that does not reduce the danger of an extinction level event or the insanity of ignoring a warning because it is rare.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> Geek999, that was a single year without a summer. Not from a super volcano or a comet. Such events cause harvests to fail for 5 years or more.
> 
> Luckily, Grimm no one is asking you for anything, certainly not me.
> 
> ...


Gee, if it is an extinction level event then *WHY* prep?! We'll all be dead or dying anyway...

Go back to watching _Life after Humans_ and leave us the hell alone!


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Dustbowl, er GlobalDustVeil, why not make this a science fiction story and make it into a book or movie?


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Sounds like a former member whose warnings concerned peak oil.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Sounds like a former member whose warnings concerned peak oil.


Yup. It sure does. Except THAT member has a new SN that is active.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Lets quit the bickering and lets play along for a moment. Maybe there is such a thing as a dust veil. Some newspapers think so - and - some scientists think so. One such veil possibly wiped out the dinosaurs (or, as I like to call them, the dragons).

http://metronews.ca/scene/622345/has-perfect-storms-solved-the-dust-veil-mystery/

*Has 'Perfect Storms' solved the Dust Veil mystery?*



> TORONTO - American paleoecologist *Dr. Robert Dull* believes he's pretty much solved the mystery behind a catastrophic global climate change event from the sixth century.
> 
> As the new History series "Perfect Storms" shows, Dull has found solid circumstantial evidence that an eruption at El Salvador's Lake Ilopango volcano was the cause of the so-called Dust Veil of AD 536, when a thick dust and ash cloud over the Northern Hemisphere cooled parts of the Earth and led to millions of deaths.
> 
> ...


So - if this Dull-guy (Dr. Robert Dull) thinks so - could it be possible, or, is the person who started this thread the very same guy?


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

Grimm, as I said in my post, it is worth preparing for these potential extinction level events but only as a complete society. Piecemeal, individual survivalist work, in the face of a five year or more global dust veil, will ultimately fail. 

Mosquito, I have never been on your site before. Indeed, there is a lot of hype around peak oil and the social chaos that will ensue as petroleum becomes more difficult to obtain. However, climate change is real and that will create a lot of upheaval.

As to my post: I am a rationalist. If someone can find fault with my conclusions then I would be grateful for your input. However, so far none of the replies in this thread have done this. 

I posted on this site because I believed that you all have a collective interest in survival. I am beginning to get the sense that many of you are only interested in preparing for a societal breakdown as an individualist.

I will say this to be clear. We as a farming species have not encountered these kind of harvest failing events. When we do, not if, when, then we will either have made preparations for the whole society or we will all eventually die due to radiation sickness.


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

Naekid, the 536 event was from a regular volcano not a super volcano like Yellowstone. Caldera explosions like Yellowstone are 1000 to 10,000 times bigger than a regular explosion. 
My last name is Sherman. There was a link on my original post which described who I am but that was deleted, I presume by admin.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

so far GDV you are handling yourself well, trying to build a community is very hard, try starting and maintaining a club or society of any kind, most members feel that they either do more or are more important than the rest. 

And science is not the holy grail it pretends to be science is very compartmentalized and arrogant very similar to the far left's view of how things work. 

People need motivation to organize into groups and prepare for anything trying to get a group together for a volcanic cloud event would be very difficult. people can't for the most part get their $hit together for annual weather events.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> Naekid, the 536 event was from a regular volcano not a super volcano like Yellowstone. Caldera explosions like Yellowstone are 1000 to 10,000 times bigger than a regular explosion.
> My last name is Sherman. There was a link on my original post which described who I am but that was deleted, I presume by admin.


NaeKid *IS* the admin.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> Geek999, that was a single year without a summer. Not from a super volcano or a comet. Such events cause harvests to fail for 5 years or more.
> 
> Luckily, Grimm no one is asking you for anything, certainly not me.
> 
> ...


Actually, it was two growing seasons, 1816 being the worst. A society lacking anything in the way of modern technology managed to survive.

I am preparing for myself and my family. I am not at the point of being prepared for a 5 year event, but I am always trying to prepare for longer term events than what I was prepared for earlier. Ultimately, I will be prepared for a truly long term event. It sounds like you want me to stop and throw my lot in with Mr. "If you like your health plan you can keep it."

I'll pass.

If you actually want to be prepared for such an event, then I suggest you start by preparing for yourself and your family. It will go a long way toward getting others, and I don't mean just this forum, to take you seriously. It would be "putting your money where your mouth is".


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

The fact is that a global dust veil is a possibility, as they have happened before and will happen again, the same way that Volcano's erupt, meters fall, and climates change. If something were to happen that would cause a thick enough veil to wipe out plant life, animal life, and cause a world wide collapse of civilization, I dare say that stringing a few grow lights would be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. An extinction level event is just that... extinction, and grow lights are not going to help.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

camo2460 said:


> The fact is that a global dust veil is a possibility, as they have happened before and will happen again, the same way that Volcano's erupt, meters fall, and climates change. If something were to happen that would cause a thick enough veil to wipe out plant life, animal life, and cause a world wide collapse of civilization, I dare say that stringing a few grow lights would be like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. An extinction level event is just that... extinction, and grow lights are not going to help.


You are correct that Dust veils from volcanoes have occurred in the past and will occur again, but the prospect of some sort of societal wide preparation, which the OP is suggesting, when people won't even prepare for hurricanes is downright absurd.


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## GlobalDustVeil (Feb 5, 2014)

CAMO: It is my understanding that it is bad form to put a link up if it was deleted by admin. However it has my research and can show how we could survive what has been thought of as an extinction level event.

ADMIN: I apologies in advance and understand if you delete it again.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> CAMO: It is my understanding that it is bad form to put a link up if it was deleted by admin. However it has my research and can show how we could survive what has been thought of as an extinction level event.
> 
> ADMIN: I apologies in advance and understand if you delete it again.
> 
> Deleted to not spread the commie bs


*The way to avoid looking like a bigger asshat is to not repost a link that was deleted by the mods/admin!* If someone has shown an interest in seeing it then PM them with the link.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

After thoroughly reviewing the link I decided to add a case of these to my preps. Problem solved! I got a couple cans for you too Grimm.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> After thoroughly reviewing the link I decided to add a case of these to my preps. Problem solved! I got a couple cans for you too Grimm.


Can I barrow a case of troll spray too?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

OK, everbody send me all yer stuff. Yer doomed. I'll think a each an ever onea yall when I use yer stuff. 

Oh by the way, danged ifin it ain't might cold an windy here. An tammarraw gonna be even worse. Sure be lookin forwad ta spring.

PS: I gotta big shop vac, seems ta do real well on dust.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

GlobalDustVeil said:


> As to my post: I am a rationalist. If someone can find fault with my conclusions then I would be grateful for your input. However, so far none of the replies in this thread have done this.
> 
> Perhaps I can be of some help here, I see many inconsistencies in what you have put forward, I will try to address a few.


First of all you go back and forth on the basic premise that a "5 year harvest failure" would be an extinction event. Obviously it would not be, and to your credit you seem to indicate that at times in your posts however perhaps it could be stated more clearly. A 5 year harvest failure would NOT in all likelihood be an extinction event, humans are far too numerous and adaptable for that to be the case. There are people who are prepared for such an occurrence and there are also those who would, through various means, do what is necessary to become prepared once the situation presented itself. Now, would it be terrible YES, that is why we are advocates of a preparedness mindset! It is entirely possible to prepare for an event such as this for those who feel the need but we all agree that one must first become prepared for much more probable (within a given time period) occurrences.

So if it can be agreed that a five year harvest failure will not be an extinction event then we are left with your other argument that seems much harder to pin down but seems to be more or less one that has been debated countless times, "What happens when the nuclear power plants are left to meltdown?" This scenario is much better discussed on it's own and that has been done, many of the things you mentioned have been addressed by those with expertise on the subject. With respect, your understanding of nuclear power and radiation appears to be less than complete.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I have a simple question for the OP. Do you have a Bug Out Bag (BOB), or a Get Home Bag (GHB) in your car? Are you prepared for something as simple as a Hurricane (east coast) or earthquake (west coast), or whatever other sort of event is common in your area?

If not, I would suggest you should be prepared for events like those and this might be a good place to learn how to get started. If you aren't personally prepared for high probability events like those, you really don't need to worry about low probability events.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> I have a simple question for the OP. Do you have a Bug Out Bag (BOB), or a Get Home Bag (GHB) in your car? Are you prepared for something as simple as a Hurricane (east coast) or earthquake (west coast), or whatever other sort of event is common in your area?
> 
> If not, I would suggest you should be prepared for events like those and this might be a good place to learn how to get started. If you aren't personally prepared for high probability events like those, you really don't need to worry about low probability events.


I don't think we will be seeing this guy again as he has been branded a troll like 15yrsoffgrid.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Geek999 said:


> I have a simple question for the OP. Do you have a Bug Out Bag (BOB), or a Get Home Bag (GHB) in your car? Are you prepared for something as simple as a Hurricane (east coast) or earthquake (west coast), or whatever other sort of event is common in your area?
> 
> If not, I would suggest you should be prepared for events like those and this might be a good place to learn how to get started. If you aren't personally prepared for high probability events like those, you really don't need to worry about low probability events.


I would ask another question on top of yours there ... is the BOB (getting away bag) and is the GHB (going home bag) designed around current weather trends. Meaning - if you live in an area with a rainy-season and a dry season (desert) do you change your bag to match that? Or what about a cold winter vs hot summer?

Is the BOB placed in a quick-n-easy place to access it in your home - ready to go in case of problems. Do you have a BOV - a vehicle that is capable of transporting you quickly? BOV could be bicycle, motorcycle, snowmobile, truck, car, airplane ... hell - a rocket-ship to take you away from the planet could still be a nice little BOV to have.

Being able to surive a planet-killer might need a place on the ISS, or a vacation-pad on the moon or on Mars ...


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

NaeKid said:


> I would ask another question on top of yours there ... is the BOB (getting away bag) and is the GHB (going home bag) designed around current weather trends. Meaning - if you live in an area with a rainy-season and a dry season (desert) do you change your bag to match that? Or what about a cold winter vs hot summer?
> 
> Is the BOB placed in a quick-n-easy place to access it in your home - ready to go in case of problems. Do you have a BOV - a vehicle that is capable of transporting you quickly? BOV could be bicycle, motorcycle, snowmobile, truck, car, airplane ... hell - a rocket-ship to take you away from the planet could still be a nice little BOV to have.
> 
> Being able to surive a planet-killer might need a place on the ISS, or a vacation-pad on the moon or on Mars ...


Useful questions, but my real question is whether he has done any prepping whatsoever or is he just expecting the rest of us to take care of him?

My sense is his priorities are completely upside down.


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