# ONE YEAR! Can You Store This Much?



## ReadyMom (Feb 25, 2011)

Like a lot of you, I post on other forums. One of the forums has a good discussion going on trying to get a year's worth of food saved. I thought I'd start that discussion here. The reason is One of the things very clearly stated by one of our guest speakers (Cynthia Ayers)...at the Central PA prep event, this weekend, regarding an EMP event is how MUCH you should consider storing: ONE YEAR. At LEAST one year! The start of the conversation (at the other forum) went like this:



ReadyMom said:


> -snip- I did hear her very clearly say that as far as preparedness goes we should have _*'at least ONE YEAR in food & water'*_ ,if possible!  ONE YEAR! -snip-





ReadyMom said:


> So ... I have SO much to catch up on, here at home that got behind with my dad's hospitalization & then getting ready for the prep event. And ALL I keep hearing in the back of my mind is Cindy Ayers saying, on Saturday:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





3ADScout said:


> Hate to give you any more Consternation but from a planning perspective I would say 1 and 1/2 years. Let's assume that and EMP or CME happens right before spring planting. Without the 21st Century Mechanization a crop might not even get planted and if one does it will not be enough. A year supply of food would get you to the next spring and the remaining half year of food would get you to harvest. Plan for worst hope for the best. I oftenwonder what might happen to the crops if either scenario happened at harvest. I suspect most of the crops would go unharvested. But then I think about how many old tractors from the 40's and 50's are still out there. But then the question becomes can we get the food to where it needs to be? I suspect that towns/cities near water will once again become centers of commerce.





kr105 said:


> If you're not depressed enough........
> 
> When planning your food storage, don't forget to add the "powder factor" on your freeze dried foods -- add approximately 25 to 33% more to your fd food servings.
> 
> Powder factor is the amount of product, inside the can, that gets pulverized in transit, giving you a powder on the bottom of the can.


SO ... Are YOU prepared to be able to store that much? I don't think we have the space to do this. :dunno: Hubby is complaining NOW! :bored: -k


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

1 years worth of water is ust not practical. And in some areas of the country not needed either.
IN my location its pretty wet and rains a lot.
Now if I was in the southwest it might be worth my while....
A years worth of food is possible with high energy staples like beans and rice... the fresh roughage during that time could come from collected plants....

Dandelion Salad.. mmmm


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Yes it can be done. Get creative with yalls storage locations. Got a basement? Look up at them floor joists, that be storage space! Under yer bed. Under stairwells. Just remember, try ta keep yer stored stuff as cool as possible. 
Water, well guess that gonna depend on where yall be. Round my parts I got access ta lots a water. BUT, ya need ta be able ta treat it. Boil it, chemical treatment (pool shock) an filters. I keep a certain amount a water on hand cause ya never know when yer gonna need it an might take a day er two ta get ta a pond er such.

Remember, ifin yer gonna do lots a dryed foods, gonna take more water. Personally I'd do a mix a dryed foods an canned foods. Canned foods ya can keep rotatin out ta keep em fresh an they be good fer a short term whoops.


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

Water is the long haul for most folks I think, as it takes up a lot of space and is heavy. We try to keep 1-2 months at most, but have filters and replacement cartridges for them to make up the difference.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

There are a lot of "work a rounds" for the space issues, some very practical and some extreme.

The biggest factor would be what kind of food you are storing, dehydrated or freeze dried take considerably less space than canned goods and freezer meals, they can be made into "Prepper Furniture" or packed into buckets that replace bed frames(30-5 gallon buckets fit under a queen sized bed). Cases of cans or canning jars can be made into coffee or end tables and covered with a table cloth and no one would know if you didn't tell them. Most houses have "dead space" thats easy to access and can be used to store supplies, and dont forget about the space under your sofa or love seat. I know some that even have put made their sofa and love seat into storage containers.

Dont be afraid to use your imagination.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

We're working on Year 2. As for the water, we have a spring fed lake on our property and we have a Berkey. 

My concern is the focus on most of these kinds of threads is food and water with some shelter and guns/ammo thrown in. We spent a huge amount of time and money on sanitation. We're fortunate in that we live in a rural area and have our own water well and septic system. 

Along with the food and seeds, we have two years worth of toilet paper, hand and body soap, dish soap, shampoo, and clothes soap along with Clorox wipes. We have at least two years worth of various OTC meds and at least of one "buffer" year of prescription meds (including prescriptions for antibiotics). 

Food is important. Sanitation is just as important. It doesn't take much for serious diseases to take hold in unsanitary conditions. All the food in the world won't save you if you are in that kind of environment.

Just don't forget there is another side of the survival coin.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

A years worth? That is easy I may have twice that. At least till the freeloaders show up. 

Davarm has a good point about being creative on storage places. I turned a coat closet into a pantry that will store 5 or 6 months worth of food for the two of us. Some people raise the bed up. Some have raised the bed up enough to store five gallon buckets under it. Slide the couch out a few inches and stack goods behind. You can buy or build foot stools where the top hinges back to reveal storage. Bookcases or similar furniture with solid doors can be placed in any room.

I had a large bedroom in one house. I built the closet the whole length of the house and four feet into the room. This gave me a four foot room with shelves on one wall accessible through the closet. 

Attic space might be acceptable for stuff like TP that would not be bothered by heat or cold. If you own the property a root cellar can be dug. Both ends of a closet can have shelves added and the closet floor can be filled with boxes.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

I've got preps stored throughout the house; I also keep an equal store of preps in a shed a couple of hundred yards from the house. The shed looks like an old falling down small barn, but it is a new built structure with very good insulation and security. A neighbor down the road had an old barn that he wanted torn down so I just used the old wood and rusted tin to cover the new building. The grass, weeds and brush I planted around it have now very effectively added to the 'look'. I never keep all my preps in once place.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Right now, before prices get really crazy, I don't think that one year or even two years is unachievable. It just depends on how many you are feeding and what your expectations are for taste, variety and content.

There are options for all kinds of budgets, what do you want to store and how much of it? That determines the preps you should look into.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Asatrur said:


> Water is the long haul for most folks I think, as it takes up a lot of space and is heavy. We try to keep 1-2 months at most, but have filters and replacement cartridges for them to make up the difference.


I have a still on order to purify all the water I will need. I also have a VIO Purifyer in the bug out bag. 30 galons of stored water in several locations.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

sailaway said:


> I have a still on order to purify all the water I will need......


Sure (wink, wink)... the still is JUST for water......


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

It looks like most people here would have a problem storing enough water foe a year, I guess I'm lucky there. We have a well that even in the worse drought has kept producing just fine, in addition we have a 12,000 gallon pool and 3 250 gallon water cubes set up to catch rain water.

Food is our storage issue. We have a small home and with aproching 6 months stores we're getting to about 70% used storage space. I may have to build another room on the house to make room.


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## ReadyMom (Feb 25, 2011)

What about the types of food you store to try and get to that goal? Having a one year goal ... would that change your choices in food items you are storing? -k


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## cengasser (Mar 12, 2012)

To accommodate our growing preps, we found a lot of wasted space. Cleaned house so to speak. We added some shelving and draws for storage and found tons of space in just getting organized better. Anything that can go in bins and to the shop goes there. 
We could fit a year just in the cabinet space we freed up and organized. 
Working on getting to a year now!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

ReadyMom said:


> What about the types of food you store to try and get to that goal? Having a one year goal ... would that change your choices in food items you are storing? -k


Store what you eat. Eat what you store. 

And yes, we have room for a years worth of food storage.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

ReadyMom said:


> What about the types of food you store to try and get to that goal? Having a one year goal ... would that change your choices in food items you are storing? -k


What UncleJoe said!

Very little of what I store is for long term storage only. When I put something into storage I mark the month and year it is added. First in first out (FTFO). If, when I take it out of storage and put it into the pantry the date is less than one year then I know I have that much less than a years worth. When I moved my goal to two years the same applied.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I went back and found some of the pictures Of "Prepper Furniture" and other storage ideas I have used, I think I have posted some of them before. I am just about at the end of the line in what I can store and these are some of the waysI have come up with to hide preps.

Between the sofa and the wall are cases of jars covered with a Mexican Blanket(the stack is a quite a bit higher now) and at the far end of the sofa is an end table(under construction) made of cases of preserves and canned fruit.

The coffee table is covered with a comforter, I just found a table cloth that fits but the picture was taken a while back. The buckets on the hearth at the end of the coffee table are now covered by a curtain so it looks like another window when the curtain is closed, havent taken a pic of that yet. The buckets under the bed are covered by one of those "curtain things" that hang to the floor so they are out of sight.

These ideas may or may not be acceptable for all but they work pretty well here and a whole lot of food is out of immediate sight and looks fairly presentable.



Davarm said:


> There are a lot of "work a rounds" for the space issues, some very practical and some extreme.
> 
> The biggest factor would be what kind of food you are storing, dehydrated or freeze dried take considerably less space than canned goods and freezer meals, they can be made into "Prepper Furniture" or packed into buckets that replace bed frames(30-5 gallon buckets fit under a queen sized bed). Cases of cans or canning jars can be made into coffee or end tables and covered with a table cloth and no one would know if you didn't tell them. Most houses have "dead space" thats easy to access and can be used to store supplies, and dont forget about the space under your sofa or love seat. I know some that even have put made their sofa and love seat into storage containers.
> 
> Dont be afraid to use your imagination.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Caribou said:


> when I take it out of storage and put it into the pantry the date is less than one year then I know I have that much less than a years worth.


Never thought about it that way. :congrat: Now I have to go downstairs and have a look.

I'm eating the last jar of my 2011 canned peaches right now. The next jar will be from the summer of '12. There are a couple jars of tomato sauce from '10 but '11 and '12 weren't very good years. Wax beans are all from '12 but there's about 40 pints left. Still have some applesauce from '11 and all of '12.

So in general it looks like we're good for at least a year as long as it gets replenished every season. Guess it's time to work on that 2 year target.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

What about aquaponics? Anyone trying that? Got the build plan but haven't tried it yet.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

I live in a 1-Bedroom Apartment. Storing an entire YEAR's worth of food is going to be a SERIOUS challenge. FORGET about a year's worth of water! Right now, I'm still trying to store 90 days worth of food! 

I can only do what I can do.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

{{{I oftenwonder what might happen to the crops if either scenario happened at harvest. I suspect most of the crops would go unharvested. But then I think about how many old tractors from the 40's and 50's are still out there}}}

When pondering this, how about diesel?? Those that didn't store any, will we donate from our cars??

Oh, yes--I have years because God blessed us with a VA disability check for agent orange exposure.
Okay--I am screwed if we have to move--started on second extra bedroom with new foods, and if I have to, a 5' X 15' foyer?? Stack em high, as they say!! Cases of canned goods stack beautifully--until New Madrid..


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

cengasser said:


> To accommodate our growing preps, we found a lot of wasted space. Cleaned house so to speak. We added some shelving and draws for storage and found tons of space in just getting organized better. Anything that can go in bins and to the shop goes there.
> We could fit a year just in the cabinet space we freed up and organized.
> Working on getting to a year now!


We have a TON of dead space in our home. It's turning out to be a blessing. We have knocked down part of a wall to access a 8x8 room's worth of dead space. 
Was wondering about what specifically we should store in home vs. in the garage? We have 8' of shelves that go 16" deep and all the way from floor to ceiling. Threw some canned goods on em and now we see some rust. :/ is it only dry buckets that are sealed? And paper products? Thanks.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> Never thought about it that way. :congrat: Now I have to go downstairs and have a look.
> 
> I'm eating the last jar of my 2011 canned peaches right now. The next jar will be from the summer of '12. There are a couple jars of tomato sauce from '10 but '11 and '12 weren't very good years. Wax beans are all from '12 but there's about 40 pints left. Still have some applesauce from '11 and all of '12.
> 
> So in general it looks like we're good for at least a year as long as it gets replenished every season. Guess it's time to work on that 2 year target.


I know--I know.. you've heard it before from me...I ate 20 year old canned green beans.
1993...and they were hot water bath canned, and they were abslutely awesome.
Still have 2 quarts left.
I also carried around for 15 years, from one house to another house, canned tomato juice and canned tomatoes!! It was a very good year for tomatoes in 1980 or 81!!!I would go to school Monday, wed, and fri, can on tues and thursday.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Foreverautumn said:


> I live in a 1-Bedroom Apartment. Storing an entire YEAR's worth of food is going to be a SERIOUS challenge. FORGET about a year's worth of water! Right now, I'm still trying to store 90 days worth of food!
> 
> I can only do what I can do.


You have options you may not have looked at yet.

For example!

You can get protein
http://www.costco.com/326-Total-Ser...Shelf-Reliance®-THRIVE™.product.11748472.html

and add carbs/calories/filler with 
http://www.costco.com/380-Total-Ser...Shelf-Reliance®-THRIVE™.product.11748485.html

and you havent spent more than $120 and you have 326 meals.

Do you want to eat chicken flavored TVP and rice every meal for 326 meals in a row? HELL NO!!!! but I'm just saying there are affordable, easily stored options! And 326 meals of chicken flavored TVP and rice is better than NOTHING!!!!

you can get all of that out of TWO 5 gallon buckets. boom! 

Oh yeah, and when SHTF starts looking like... uhhhhhh is it today? clean your bath tub, and then fill it full of water. it will hold about 100 gallons.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

semperscott said:


> I've got preps stored throughout the house; I also keep an equal store of preps in a shed a couple of hundred yards from the house. The shed looks like an old falling down small barn, but it is a new built structure with very good insulation and security. A neighbor down the road had an old barn that he wanted torn down so I just used the old wood and rusted tin to cover the new building. The grass, weeds and brush I planted around it have now very effectively added to the 'look'. I never keep all my preps in once place.


Great way to camouflage the goods!


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

You can store enough food for one person for one year in about one square foot of floor space in you home. It takes about four square feet of floor space to store enough water.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Personally I am in a wet location like BlueZ (maybe we're in the same reigon of the U.S.?). Water is not a concern at all, in fact we live quite close to many clean water sources. I have drank the water from numerous mountain waterfalls (for anyone knowing this area, Ramona Falls for one), and only used my husbands clean handkerchief to filter larger stuff and none of us got sick. I have drank boiled water from early spring run rivers around here, not gotten sick either. I think I might have a talk with some local knowledgable people to see good sources of clean water could come from, that did not require filters, only boiling (in the event we used up any filters we might have had). I plan to store 6 months of water though, just to keep us set in the beginning of any long term event. Food, well we have about 6 months worth right now. Some of that is in the freezer, and while thats good, I know there is the what if of losing electricity, our outdoors in winter is not cold enough to help with that. I want to focus on making some beef jerky, get some oxygen absorbers, and then Foodsaver-ing it in batches. I know chicken and turkey can be done this way too, I am more hesitant with those, but even more hesitant to home canning, something I have yet to learn. I plan on more canned meats too.

Far from enough dry products stores up. Lacking in rice, beans (another source of protein), pasta's I have but need to also Foodsaver those and buy more. Little by little I'm trying to get us there....


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

We have all kinds of space in which to store food. The problem is it's hot and humid in Texas and food not stored in a cool place degrades quickly so we're limited to storing food in the air conditioned areas. All of the non-food items are stored elsewhere.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

http://www.provident-living-today.com/Bulk-Food-Storage.html

Here is something for anyone who might be feeling anxiety from this thread.

I have about six months if we are lucky. Family of five.

I try to refrain from speaking in terms of months or years because I don't want to discourage anyone from just starting something. I know how I felt just starting out. So maybe the website will help.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Foreverautumn said:


> I live in a 1-Bedroom Apartment. Storing an entire YEAR's worth of food is going to be a SERIOUS challenge. FORGET about a year's worth of water! Right now, I'm still trying to store 90 days worth of food!
> 
> I can only do what I can do.


Yes you can only do what you can do. Please don't get discouraged. Look at my link that I just posted. And if you have the funds, look toward dehydrated buckets.


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## sheepdog325 (Feb 28, 2013)

invision said:


> What about aquaponics? Anyone trying that? Got the build plan but haven't tried it yet.


That's my next project after I finish building my chicken coop and get my garden going.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I've always heard a year supply as an end goal, that's what the Mormon's teach. I would figure your ability to garden into the equation. If you live on several acres in an area of the country where you can garden year round, your resources might be better used elsewhere.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

All of my LTS food is FD in #10 cans. It will be good for as long as I am alive and still be good for the person I will it to, if I don’t have to use it first that is! I also have store bought canned goods, mostly baked beans, tuna in oil (which is harder and harder to get, it is all in healthy water now), rice and stuff like that.

For storage lets think about the cases of #10’s. I always order in multiples of 6 and they come in a real nice case. A can is… I forget so let’s say 7” diameter and 8” tall. That makes a case of 6, 14” x 21” x 8”. In a 7’ 6” ceiling room you can stack 11 cases high.

Each can has on average 10 one cup servings. With veggies and snacks figure 8 cups a day per person. That is 8 cups dry not reconstituted. Each case is good for 60 servings so 7.5 days worth. Round to one case per week per person. For one person for a year it will take 52 cases, 4.7 stacks round to 5 stacks, that is 55 cases. Footprint size is about 10 sq ft per person per year.

That is how I estimated it. Cans with milk, powdered drinks, butter, grains and all will provide more than 10 servings but I rounded everything off. With canning produce from the garden and eating fresh from the garden that 55 cases should last more like 2 years or more. Water is not an issue for me but if you live in a very dry area FD might not be the way to go.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

The one year goal is frustrating for me. I STILL have those moments when I look at my stuff and think :gaah: I don't have enough!!!

I just try to stay steady and keep going. That's really all I can do. The good thing about it is that since I've started, I've probably gotten at least 3 other people to see the wisdom of storing stuff too.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I used a storage room in my basement for all our food. I don't have a canner (yet!) but I do use the plastic storage tubs from walmart to hold the rice and beans in. I just finished a 25 lb bag of pinto beans from 5 years ago. I never sealed it or kept it in a dark cool place. It sat in my pantry (exposed to sunlight too!) And although the beans got darker the flavor never changed. The biggest challenge will be a big change in our diet. Right now its a lot of grilled frozen meats and lots of fresh steamed or grilled veggies. Here in CO we would probably start eating more sprouts for veggies and use our dining room as a greenhouse!! Priorities will change for sure!!


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

I'm starting year two of preps right now. We took a coat closet and turned it into a pantry and the area in the entry way between the door and closet the hubby enclosed and added shelves for more storage. We took an unused back hallway and added 2ft shelves for more storage and they're up off the floor enough for 5 gallon buckets to sit underneath.
Our years worth of tp is in a workroom above one of the garages where there are deep shelves the whole length of two of the walls. Hubby added hanging shelves in another garage to hold containers with firstaid supplies and extra socks, underwear and boots.

To find or make storage don't just look down. Look up also. A shelf above doors in bedrooms and on the inside of closets works well.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

mike_dippert, 365.25 U.S gallons of water should weight about 3050lbs,
a bit much to move around and definitely getting into the maximum static load of many floors, gotta be careful of that, if you spread it out like a water bed it is easier on the joists but I still saw damage from those.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

lazydaisy67 said:


> The one year goal is frustrating for me. I STILL have those moments when I look at my stuff and think :gaah: I don't have enough!!!
> 
> I just try to stay steady and keep going. That's really all I can do. The good thing about it is that since I've started, I've probably gotten at least 3 other people to see the wisdom of storing stuff too.


You're doing the right thing. It's more baby steps than big wins because consistency is the key. My first big and happiest moment was when I finally had two years worth of toilet paper. If you've ever gone without.... you'll NEVER go without again.

Look at it this way... you're doing more than probably 90% of the population. That should either cause you complete elation or sheer fear.


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

Country Living said:


> You're doing the right thing. It's more baby steps than big wins because consistency is the key. My first big and happiest moment was when I finally had two years worth of toilet paper. If you've ever gone without.... you'll NEVER go without again.
> 
> Look at it this way... you're doing more than probably 90% of the population. That should either cause you complete elation or sheer fear.


See, it's that kind of extras..two years of TP that throw me.. We are a single income family with 6 kids(ages 11-22) and two parents in the home. I have a separate account for groceries/otc med/household supplies..and my budget is reasonable, or was before all the price hikes in the last two years..but I have a hard time keeping us in stuff like toilet paper and shampoo/conditioner for two weeks, let alone two years ahead. I have started a small stockpile of toiletries and OTC meds under the sink in our bathroom..and there's some $.69 Shampoo/Cond. tucked in the cabinet above the dryer.. so I'm working on it. TP in mass quantities allude me yet. I REALLY need to get some help clearing out some room in the basement. We have a storage room that dh could put a door with a lock on. My pantry in the kitchen is getting too full..stuff jumps on me if I'm not careful. Now, just to find a place to relocate my 15 tubs and boxes of yarn...those are preps too, right?

PS: It's fair to notify the grown kids to come get their junk still stored here after two years, isn't it?


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

mike_dippert said:


> Every time I visit my parents (600 miles away), they give me more of my stuff. My wife's parents (15 miles away) have space to keep her stuff, but will gladly drop it off at our house if/when we ask.


It would help if it was only one kid's stuff..but I do wonder how fast they'd come running if I made a facebook 'event' saying I was clearing out/selling books from the family room, storage room and Boxes of Unknown stuff under the stairs...


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

sell things you don't need and use that money to buy extras. the dollar tree stores have lots of things cheap.
We live on one income ( always have) and when the kids were alive I used coupons and hit the loss leaders at the stores to save big and get extras and bogo's and freebies online, but even then I took five or ten dollars and used them only for extra preps. You just have to decide which is more important, name brand cereal or store brand with an extra box ( thats only an example people). For years my daughter thought she was eating name brand cereals and it wasn't until she was nineteen that she found out that I would buy the name brand with a coupon when I got a good sale and then just kept the box and stuffed the store brand bag in it. It shocked the shit out of her lmao.
Now it's still one income but just the two of us and I've since found discount grocery stores where coffee is $2.50 a bag and the soup cans are lightly dented and where expensive shampoos ( 7-8$$) are only $1.50 for both shampoo and conditioner, cereals are .99 a box and you can get 8 packs of tortillas for $1.
I still save up to hit the Amish discount store I go to and make a run about every other month. 
We also recycle metal and I use my cut of the money to buy preps whether they're extra firstaid or socks and underwear for us it comes out of that money.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

ksmama10 said:


> See, it's that kind of extras..two years of TP that throw me.. We are a single income family with 6 kids(ages 11-22) and two parents in the home. I have a separate account for groceries/otc med/household supplies..and my budget is reasonable, or was before all the price hikes in the last two years..but I have a hard time keeping us in stuff like toilet paper and shampoo/conditioner for two weeks, let alone two years ahead. I have started a small stockpile of toiletries and OTC meds under the sink in our bathroom..and there's some $.69 Shampoo/Cond. tucked in the cabinet above the dryer.. so I'm working on it. TP in mass quantities allude me yet. I REALLY need to get some help clearing out some room in the basement. We have a storage room that dh could put a door with a lock on. My pantry in the kitchen is getting too full..stuff jumps on me if I'm not careful. Now, just to find a place to relocate my 15 tubs and boxes of yarn...those are preps too, right?
> 
> PS: It's fair to notify the grown kids to come get their junk still stored here after two years, isn't it?


With some items your much better off buying a huge quantity once rather than trying to pick up a little extra each week. I found TP a perfect example. I made 20 calls to different distributers pretending (lying) to be a aquistion manager for a health care organisation. I ended up getting 2 years worth of TP for an amazing price all because i put on abit of a show and they somehow :sssh: got the idea i would be buying the same amount of TP every 2-3 months. I started off buying things that last forever in huge amounts and splitting it in with family at a slight profit for me but still a great discount for them. Salt, Sugar ect. Think of it this way your saving 30 years worth of inflation 

Also if you havnt given it a shot yet try making your own soaps/shampoo ect. But keep your budget the same and the savings just hide away till you can make the big purchases. Every little $ helps.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

ksmama10 said:


> See, it's that kind of extras..two years of TP that throw me.. We are a single income family with 6 kids(ages 11-22) and two parents in the home. I have a separate account for groceries/otc med/household supplies..and my budget is reasonable, or was before all the price hikes in the last two years..but I have a hard time keeping us in stuff like toilet paper and shampoo/conditioner for two weeks, let alone two years ahead. I have started a small stockpile of toiletries and OTC meds under the sink in our bathroom..and there's some $.69 Shampoo/Cond. tucked in the cabinet above the dryer.. so I'm working on it. TP in mass quantities allude me yet. I REALLY need to get some help clearing out some room in the basement. We have a storage room that dh could put a door with a lock on. My pantry in the kitchen is getting too full..stuff jumps on me if I'm not careful. Now, just to find a place to relocate my 15 tubs and boxes of yarn...those are preps too, right?
> 
> PS: It's fair to notify the grown kids to come get their junk still stored here after two years, isn't it?


A door would be great but it is not probably a priority. Clean out the area and then paint if it needs it. If you don't care about color your hardware or paint stores will have paint at reduced prices that were mixed with the wrong color. Shelving is your next priority.

I just reached the two year mark on my TP last year. For the longest time I figured six months was plenty. When I decided to increase quantities it took a while. Do what you can when you can. Some things cost little but your time other things require cash outlay.


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## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

ksmama10 said:


> Now, just to find a place to relocate my 15 tubs and boxes of yarn...those are preps too, right?
> 
> Absolutley, socks, hats, sweaters, blankets would all be necessary. Yarn is a very important item.
> Moose


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

We have several packages of underwear and socks in our preps along with extra pairs of hiking/work boots. Our sewing kit is an integral part of our clothing supplies along with a bag of buttons and lots of thread and a few zippers. I keep a couple of dental floss (fine) in the kit for sewing things that have a lot of pull and wear and tear. And you just can't have too many needles and needle threaders.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep. Socks, underwear, tee shirts, boots; pretty much anything we could think of that might be hard to get at a reasonable cost in the event of runaway inflation, currency revaluation or total economic collapse.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> Yep. Socks, underwear, tee shirts, boots; pretty much anything we could think of that might be hard to get at a reasonable cost in the event of runaway inflation, currency revaluation or total economic collapse.


meh. Clothes are something I really need to start focusing on.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

One warning on boots/shoes. I had a recent bout with the old bunions and now have two pairs of boots that are pretty tight and will only fit with really thin socks. Next purchase I bought two sizes too large. I figure extra socks are better than boots that do not fit. I have not been able to find wide enough boots so go a size or two larger so my feet fit in them.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Very good point about the boots, also make sure they don't dry out too much. I always get them big enough to add a thick insole and wear a couple pairs of socks.
Good quality leather with proper stitching SHOULD be able to stretch a size or two without any damage. 
Or if someone has the inclination they can be let them out a bit by redoing some stitches, but that takes some time and patience.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It doesn't take up as much space as you'd think. 

We have a basement. I put together storage towers for gallon water jugs. They're made with 12" cinder blocks and 4'x8' sheets of plywood. We have 3 that hold 512 gallons each.

We also have a year's supply of food in the basement. We have everything from oatmeal and rice to dry cereal to canned stew, canned soup, canned chicken, and canned fruit. I think we have over 1,000 cans of food. I bought heavy duty banker's boxes to store the canned goods. I can stack the boxes 4 high. They don't take up a lot of room.


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

I can take a space and make it a storage place, we have "stupid space"....but as I get preps and prepare preps, I say "build me shelves here".....and he does.....the pictures above are creative, but people visiting you can see all the preps....there goes yer security. I am shooting for a year and have begun to prep a secondary storage area away from the house with a cach and I have a third accessable "by sea" in mind....it just costs alot to keep buying and buying....even when you buy in bulk etc....


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

One of my problems is space, and shelving, so last night I started field stripping boxes of mix food, like Hamburger Helper and Mac&Cheese. I was able to put 48 prepacked mac&cheese, plus 20 various hamburger helper packages into a 5 gallon bucket. I kept them separated by flavor group using plastic grocery store bags and kept one box of each type flattened with a quick note written how many are in the bucket. The box is to see ingredients and cooking materials, although hamburger helper/chicken helper is always pretty much the same, meat + water + milk + box product = dinner and lunch for tomorrow.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Just a random bit of info, I've been going over some of my "Buckets" and did some math. If you dice potatoes, boil and dehydrate them, about 100 pounds(fresh weight) will fit into a 5 gallon bucket and will weigh under 25 pounds. 

Even for a big family, a years worth of spuds can be fit into a very small space, it works out to be right at or just under 20 buckets per ton(fresh weight) of potatoes.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

We have a cistern for water supply that holds 6,700 gallons. That will last us about 3-4 months, if we are careful, using the normal flush toilet. 

We got pretty low on water one year during a drought, but never had to buy any, thus my time estimate. But it DOES rain here, normally over 40" a year which would fill the cistern several times over. You just need enough to get through the dry times in late summer. 

Food is pretty easy to store a couple year's worth, if you grow a garden and do your canning. No problem. We have done that all our lives. It takes less room than you think for just a couple people. This is in a 3 BR home with a full basement, not an apartment. But if you live in an apartment, you have more important issues. And, we grow all we need on our one acre lot including eggs, veggies, fruits, herbs and some grains, but no meat. We buy meat from a farmer on the hoof and get it processed. 

We use a freezer for meat and some veggies and sundry items, but we also can a lot of meat. In case of a power outage, we don't lose everything. 

A year's worth of food is the minimum, I would say, having seen crop failures and not suffered at all. Easily doable, but it takes commitment to the lifestyle. 

We are not into drying foods very much, but are dehydrating eggs. Eggs can be preserved with coatings, but drying reduces the space required.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

I have no idea for how many months my stored food will provide but one of my next projects is to make a list of it all then try to figure how much of it we'll use per day..


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

101airborne said:


> It looks like most people here would have a problem storing enough water foe a year, I guess I'm lucky there. We have a well that even in the worse drought has kept producing just fine, in addition we have a 12,000 gallon pool and 3 250 gallon water cubes set up to catch rain water.
> 
> Food is our storage issue. We have a small home and with aproching 6 months stores we're getting to about 70% used storage space. I may have to build another room on the house to make room.


For about $350 you can buy a new plastic water or septic tank to bury in the ground anywhere on your property. Typically a 400 gallon, you can store a LOT of food and other preps in it in a cache style system. We have 4 of them scattered at various points in our general area. Its a real pain to sneak them into the tjickest underbrush and dig a big hole then bury them and leave no trace. It can be done, but its do-able.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

seanallen said:


> For about $350 you can buy a new plastic water or septic tank to bury in the ground anywhere on your property. Typically a 400 gallon, you can store a LOT of food and other preps in it in a cache style system. We have 4 of them scattered at various points in our general area. Its a real pain to sneak them into the tjickest underbrush and dig a big hole then bury them and leave no trace. It can be done, but its do-able.


I hadn't thought of using a new septic tank as a cistern, if one would hold sewage, I see no reason it wouldn't hold fresh water also. The only question I would have is if any hazardous chemicals were mixed with the concrete during manufacture.

I am going to call my septic tank guy and see what he thinks of the idea. When he put my system in he used 2 - 500 gallon concrete tanks, 1000 gallons of rain water would just about fit my needs.

If that doesn't pan out I guess I could get him to bury a couple 550 gallon water tanks instead. If it cant be seen it likely wouldn't be tampered with(or taxed).


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Davarm said:


> I hadn't thought of using a new septic tank as a cistern, if one would hold sewage, I see no reason it wouldn't hold fresh water also. The only question I would have is if any hazardous chemicals were mixed with the concrete during manufacture.
> 
> I am going to call my septic tank guy and see what he thinks of the idea. When he put my system in he used 2 - 500 gallon concrete tanks, 1000 gallons of rain water would just about fit my needs.
> 
> If that doesn't pan out I guess I could get him to bury a couple 550 gallon water tanks instead. If it cant be seen it likely wouldn't be tampered with(or taxed).


I meant that as dry food storage cache style, but i dont see why it wouldnt work for fresh water either. Would suggest using plastic containers though. That way you could install it yourself stealth mode and maintain opsec.


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## hdb90 (May 1, 2012)

seanallen said:


> For about $350 you can buy a new plastic water or septic tank to bury in the ground anywhere on your property. Typically a 400 gallon, you can store a LOT of food and other preps in it in a cache style system. We have 4 of them scattered at various points in our general area. Its a real pain to sneak them into the tjickest underbrush and dig a big hole then bury them and leave no trace. It can be done, but its do-able.


 We intended to build a cellar this year. mostly for our potatoes, sweet potatoes, cabbage and etc. This would probably work fine for us and save us a ton of money. Plus we could bury it ourselves and no one would know. Thanks Seanallen


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Under our home (it's just a crawl space) I dug out a potato hole to store our taters, turnips, carrots and such in. Most years we have so many that some rot before we can eat them all so a years worth of veggies is no problem for us.


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## cengasser (Mar 12, 2012)

We converted a small shower stall in the master bedroom to storage. No one goes in there. We built custom shelves from wood we had and some wire shelving salvaged from a dumpster of a store that closed. We wondered where we would use them at the time, we weren't prepping back then; or maybe we were & didn't know it. 
We're thinking of taking out the tub in the master bath making that a nice walk in space. And we'd have the shower back in our room. Just plans for now. That would take some funding...
Things in the shop paper goods, dry goods, like rice, non potable water. Emergency essentials like backup lights. Cooking equipment, lamp oil. Things you don't want to hunt in a power outage situation.
First Aid: band aids, gauze, ace bandages, etc.


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## cengasser (Mar 12, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> Under our home (it's just a crawl space) I dug out a potato hole to store our taters, turnips, carrots and such in. Most years we have so many that some rot before we can eat them all so a years worth of veggies is no problem for us.


How far down did you dig?


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## ReadyMom (Feb 25, 2011)

Dakine said:


> One of my problems is space, and shelving, so last night I started field stripping boxes of mix food, like Hamburger Helper and Mac&Cheese. I was able to put 48 prepacked mac&cheese, plus 20 various hamburger helper packages into a 5 gallon bucket. I kept them separated by flavor group using plastic grocery store bags and kept one box of each type flattened with a quick note written how many are in the bucket. The box is to see ingredients and cooking materials, although hamburger helper/chicken helper is always pretty much the same, meat + water + milk + box product = dinner and lunch for tomorrow.


This is a good idea! I've thought of doing the exact same thing. Another consideration: you are getting rid of TRASH right NOW, if there is no trash pick up.

I do this with individual bottles of liquid dish detergent, shampoo & conditioner. Pour them into the large jug-handle vinegar bottles, when they are emptied. Pull the labels off the single bottles (warm the bottles by putting hot water inside & let stand) and tape to the larger jug for easy identification.

It's easier to count a gallon than lots of single bottles ... plus you are getting rid of lots of single bottles that need to be tossed ... PLUS when that jug is empty you now have a WATER jug you can keep or share with others who do not have a water jug. -k


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Ready Mom..you gave me a project.
I have oodles of vinegar jugs filled with water.
Saving space is a great idea using those for the little dish washing soap, shampoos, etc. and marking with a sharpie. :scratch
Thanks.

On my way to empty water now and leave on porch to dry.


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## ReadyMom (Feb 25, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Ready Mom..you gave me a project.
> I have oodles of vinegar jugs filled with water.
> Saving space is a great idea using those for the little dish washing soap, shampoos, etc. and marking with a sharpie. :scratch
> Thanks.
> ...


Glad to help. Don't forget to label that it's 64 oz in that jug (=1 gal) and I also duct tape around the snap-top lid to make sure it's well sealed for tip-over accidents. -k


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

ReadyMom said:


> Glad to help. Don't forget to label that it's 64 oz in that jug (=1 gal) and I also duct tape around the snap-top lid to make sure it's well sealed for tip-over accidents. -k


Oh, I just left the vinegar label on..64 oz...doesn't matter.
For those items I use a regular sized shampoo and dish liquid and fill it when needed.
I can not stand those huge shampoo bottles when I'm showering!

They are on a shelf with other jugs, No problem. These lids/caps are the kind very hard to just tip off--have to try hard to get off, which is why I love your idea.
The shampoo even looks like a rainbow--colors didn't separate!!!
Shampoo and dish liquid art!!:beercheer:

Next?? Peroxide and alcohol. Yes, I have that much stored!!!


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Hydrogen peroxide is better off in the dark plastic bottles than clear glass. It is photosensitive, plus glass may have ions in it that chemically alter hydrogen peroxide. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I would leave it in original packaging.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Lake Windsong said:


> Hydrogen peroxide is better off in the dark plastic bottles than clear glass. It is photosensitive, plus glass may have ions in it that chemically alter hydrogen peroxide. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I would leave it in original packaging.


To my knowledge you are right, hydrogen peroxide can break down over time regardless of how it is stored so large quantities of 2 or 4% may not be practical. For long term, it may be more beneficial to go with 30% if you can safely store it.

Food grade 30% H2O2 is available at some Health Food Stores.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Lake Windsong said:


> Hydrogen peroxide is better off in the dark plastic bottles than clear glass. It is photosensitive, plus glass may have ions in it that chemically alter hydrogen peroxide. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I would leave it in original packaging.


You are definitely correct. Light breaks down the chemical and essentially turns hydrogen peroxide into water.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

Dakine said:


> Oh yeah, and when SHTF starts looking like... uhhhhhh is it today? clean your bath tub, and then fill it full of water. it will hold about 100 gallons.


Better yet, I can get one of those thingies that line the bathtub (I forgot what they're called) and just fill THAT w/water. That's a thought, but right now I'm focusing mostly on:
1) staying mobile (though admittedly, I've got nowhere, really, to go)
2) getting out of debt
3) getting a 90-day canned-good food supply

THEN I'll be focusing on water and a year's food supply, dehydrated or not.

Hmmm....Maybe I can store dehydrated WATER...now THERE'S a thought! :rofl::lolsmash:


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Foreverautumn said:


> Better yet, I can get one of those thingies that line the bathtub (I forgot what they're called) and just fill THAT w/water. That's a thought, but right now I'm focusing mostly on:
> 1) staying mobile (though admittedly, I've got nowhere, really, to go)
> 2) getting out of debt
> 3) getting a 90-day canned-good food supply
> ...


I know there are purpose built products for lining the tub so you can fill it with water, but I'm wondering why using 2mm or 3mm visqueen wouldn't work just as well and be a whole lot cheaper? You can get those from home improvement stores in huge sheets for little money by the roll.

going mobile without somewhere to go to, in my opinion, is not an option unless something is so freaking horrible you're absolutely convinced you're gonna die if you stay.

A years worth of water and food are easy to do, even on a budget. it really depends on your space available, the money you're willing to spend, and the expectations you're setting.

A person living in a studio apt has a fraction of the room (and presumably income) of someone who rents a house, and that person is at a deficit from someone who OWNS a house and can make modifications at will (within the boundaries of their HOA & whatever local regs)

But you can put a 55gal (or a few 33 gal water buckets in a closet) as well as some costco TVP buckets... there are ways to get food & water preps locked down in a big hurry! You just have to go into it eyes open knowing it's an immediate solution to a huge problem, and then start working on the bigger solution.

having something tangible tomorrow is better than having nothing but a plan today... (and it's way better if tomorrow requires you actually need the stored food/water/meds/kit)


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

At this point I think getting a years worth of food and water is more important than getting out of debt.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

About the size of 2 wheelbarrows. Our foundation sits on sandstone bedrock and the hole is against that. The potatoes are loosely bagged, stacked then rotated every week or so to keep them fresh. My husband taught me; my grandpa never grew too many potatoes. It works for us.


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## AuroraHawk (Sep 12, 2012)

*Yarn for preps.*



ksmama10 said:


> Now, just to find a place to relocate my 15 tubs and boxes of yarn...those are preps too, right?


If I take out the loveseat there will be room enough for your 15 tubs and boxes of yarn, in my Area 51 (home of all my knitting, crochet, bead and jewelry UnFinished Objects). I'll be happy to store all that yarn for you and promise not to touch it until I am out of yarn (what I have on my shelves and in tubs is only about 6 tubs).


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

AuroraHawk said:


> If I take out the loveseat there will be room enough for your 15 tubs and boxes of yarn, in my Area 51 (home of all my knitting, crochet, bead and jewelry UnFinished Objects). I'll be happy to store all that yarn for you and promise not to touch it until I am out of yarn (what I have on my shelves and in tubs is only about 6 tubs).


If I could just convince my dear loving husband to build this in our backyard, I could just stash my yarn there. Smart people don't hold their breath:teehee:


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

AuroraHawk said:


> If I take out the loveseat there will be room enough for your 15 tubs and boxes of yarn,


You can remove the catch cloth from underneath your couch and/or loveseat and that would allow you to store quite a bit of "stuff" under them, no one would ever know or think to check there.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

One year of preps is not a bad start but that can not be the full extent of your preps. By only storing one years worth of food water and supplies you have simply prolonged the inevitable. After a year you will still starve to death, unless you can keep those stores replenished. If you are not able to do that now it is highly unlikely you will be able to begin doing it after SHTF.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I agree with the people that say one year is not enough but the thing is, you will have the entire year of using that stuff to acquire more. It is not like people will just sit there and at the end of one year all of a sudden run out and look for more. The supplies just act as a buffer while you work on growing more food yourself or track down different sources for instance. In most situations that can be imagined there will be some resources available to people willing to put in the work and who have the supplies to make up any deficits.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> I agree with the people that say one year is not enough but the thing is, you will have the entire year of using that stuff to acquire more. It is not like people will just sit there and at the end of one year all of a sudden run out and look for more. The supplies just act as a buffer while you work on growing more food yourself or track down different sources for instance. In most situations that can be imagined there will be some resources available to people willing to put in the work and who have the supplies to make up any deficits.


Of course one can scavenge and scrounge to eek out an existence to supplement their stores and continue to exist after their stores have run out. It has been done by many throughout the ages but it will be a meager hand to mouth existence at best. Any day potentially being your last.

Those who intend on becoming self sustaining after SHTF will discover it to be a far more daunting task than they imagine. I posted where we are at on the *And The SHTF* thread. After over a decade we still do not produce grow, hunt, harvest, gather, fish all of our own food. Despite what many imagine becoming self sustaining after SHTF will be exponentially harder.

Right now is the ideal time to beginning to prep to plant. What if SHTF two months from now? Early to late summer than what? You now need at least eighteen months of supplies before your first harvest. But lets say it is now. What are you going to plant? Do you know what grows well in your area? How much do you need to plant to last a year? Is there enough variety to provide proper nutrition? How are you going to preserve it? Do you have enough jars? Enough canning lids? Enough fuel? What about meat? Is someone going to give you livestock? If not than what? What are you going to do with it? Eat it? Than what? If you are going to breed it to produce meat you have six months to a year before there is meat on the table. Can you breed enough to provide all the meat you need? Do you have enough feed? Pasture land? Able to protect it? Do you hunt or fish? What is in your area? Where are you going to hunt? Are you sure? Positive someone is not going to be defending that as their turf? I know the million pristine acres of wilderness I live by will be being defended by those that live out here. If you can hunt. Do you bag your limit every time? How much do you need to survive? How many deer for a year? How many fish? What grows wild in your area? When do you harvest it? How do you prepare it? What nutritional value does it have? How to you preserve it? The list goes on it is not nearly as simple as some imagine. Even the best prepared unless they are already self sustaining will discover that there are tools and equipment that they need but do not have or never imagined needing until they do.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Foreverautumn said:


> Better yet, I can get one of those thingies that line the bathtub (I forgot what they're called) and just fill THAT w/water


Is this what you were talking about *Emergency Water Bob* If so they are not that spendy get a couple. Though being self sustaining having your own well is a far better option


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

LongRider said:


> What if SHTF two months from now?


2 months from now is the ideal time to plant the garden.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

LongRider, I agree with you completly that the sooner people start doing this stuff the better, yesterday would have been better!
I don't suggest anyone wait until TSHTF to try and raise there own food, we have been doing it for over 100years on this particular piece of land and still learning. I hope those questions were not directed to me because they are good questions but I don't have time to answer them all.
We are much more than self sufficient in food, we sell literally tons of beef, grains and vegetables every year aside from what we use ourselves. Things would have to be cut back without regular fuel deliveries but other than that there is no time limit on our operation.

What I was trying to say is that stored food should act as a buffer, not the complete diet for most people in a long term scenario.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> 2 months from now is the ideal time to plant the garden.


We are planting seeds now in the green house, and prepping our beds. So we will have good starts in two months. If we planted seeds in two months most of our garden would not be producing by the end of the growing season. So I suppose I stand corrected depending on your area, determines when to plant



cowboyhermit said:


> LongRider, I agree with you completly that the sooner people start doing this stuff the better, yesterday would have been better!
> I don't suggest anyone wait until TSHTF to try and raise there own food, we have been doing it for over 100years on this particular piece of land and still learning. I hope those questions were not directed to me because they are good questions but I don't have time to answer them all.


Ok we are on the same page than it sounded as if you were saying that a years worth of stores would provide the buffer needed to allow someone to begin growing their own food and become self sustaining. 
No the questions were more food for thought for those that think that they can become self sustaining after SHTF.


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