# Anyone Think its Possible to Survive TEOTWAWKI in a City & If So How Would You Do It?



## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

I accept the fact that many of you think the chances of surviving TEOTWAWKI in a City is low if not impossible but if you think its possible how would you do it? Lets define City as any area within a Cities boundaries including suburbs.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Anything is possible. Just be very well armed with a very well stocked and well armed survival party. You will literally have to take over your area and protect it whether it's a block of houses in a suburb or an apartment building. You will need protection first and an enormous amount of food and supplies while you establish gardens and other food sources scattered along your general area which will also need protecting. When I say protection I don't mean fending off one or two intruders I mean having the means to protect yourself from possibly hundreds and hundreds of armed desperate people at one time. Imagine 200-300 armed gang members coming after your food and supplies. Protection and safety is your number one priority. Food and water are very important so I hope you have enough to get you by until safety is established first. Other than that your best bet is to hide out and be completely unseen and hidden for the rest of your days with enough supplies hidden away for the rest of your life.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

I agree with Protection but do you think it is possible to hide away and be unseen for the rest of your life in a City? In regards to protection, do you think you'll need to have the people to fend off hundreds of intruders at the beginning of TEOTWAWKI or is that something you can gradually build yourself up to? If so what roughly are the amounts of people and the stages in regards to preventing intruders?


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

PeachesBackwards said:


> . . . possible to hide away and be unseen for the rest of your life in a City?


Yes, but I would pray for a very short life!

Not my personal idea of a good time or worth the effort to even contemplate. Good luck with that!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

PeachesBackwards said:


> I accept the fact that many of you think the chances of surviving TEOTWAWKI in a City is low if not impossible but if you think its possible how would you do it? Lets define City as any area within a Cities boundaries including suburbs.


Top left corner of this web site I noticed a search function. I type in "City" and found this for you: http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f74/i-live-metropolitan-area-4-000-000-people-26963/


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

Thanks will check this out


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

1 person that preplaced supplies in the sub basement of a building in a secluded industrial area might be Ok, you would have to stay hidden and leave no tracks, bangers are going to develop skills, they belong to survive so they will adapt and learn, or die, but they will also use up resources and move on, so if you are bound and determined to stay in a city you could maybe make it.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If there ever is TEOTWAWKI and that is a very big if then yes people will survive in the cities. It would be much easier in the southern cities but I would expect some in the northern cities also.
For the first month or three I would think you would have to remain hidden and survive on your stored food and water. After three or so months then the population of the city would be much reduced and you could likely leave your hide out to do some light foraging. 
In an apartment building you could barricade your door at first then after a bit you could throw your furniture and the furniture of those who had already left into the stairwells to block them. That would discourage intruders and give you an early warning system. When you deemed it safe or when you were near out of supplies then you could remove the furniture and go explore.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Have fun being tortured by the dregs when they find you and your supplies.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

A few months of survival in the city is about as much as could be expected. You will need to survive the first few weeks or month be hiding and never going out. Even then you will be hoping that the bad guys have not decided to search your home.

As soon as you go out, some one you see you and wonder "how are they surviving, they most have a stash of food and water". They will be watching as you go home and as you come and go, they will be watching from a distance and eventually decide to take what ever you have. Even with extreme barricades it's only time now before you will be taken. You will probably be killed on the street if they suspect you are living alone, then they will go take what they want.

If the Germans and the French during WWII could not build an impenetrable bunker then you can't.

Also, the warmer it is where you are the more dangerous it will be. Bad guys hate the cold. When it's above freezing they will be wondering around at night making staying concealed very difficult. Plus the warmer it is the more irritable people get and even during normal times crime rates double on warm nights. Most people can't sleep when the temperatures are above 80 degrees and when it gets to 90 or 100 at night no one will be sleeping and a few days without sleep and stupid mistakes will be made or bad decisions will be made, Ether way it will not be good for you.

So in a city if you only survive 3 months you have done very well.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Everyone please consider the alternatives. If everyone 'bugged out' where would they all go? Hundreds of thousands bugging out at roughly the same time. Many of these people might have been very nice people once but it will literally be dog-eat-dog during the exodus. Will that be any better? And even if you somehow survive this exodus where will you go? If you have not been mugged or killed you very likely will have very limited supplies (if any). So if you have no relative's place that you can reach (if they would take you in and had not been over run already) then what? Apply for a job at a ranch or farm when you know nothing about it? Live off the land? You might just as well stay in the city where at least you know your way around. 
Will you die in the city? Maybe. Will you die trying to leave the city? Maybe. Will you die if you successfully exit the city and make it to a rural area? Maybe. Or you could change those maybes for probablys.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

You could greatly improve your odds. The gutters run into a swimming pool could provide water. A lot of food could be stored in a basement. A fenced in backyard could provide privacy for a garden. I know homes inside large cities that have septic tanks but if not an outhouse can be dug for sanitation.

Security is a primary concern. Yes, most fortifications can be taken with enough resources and time. The trick is to make it too costly to bother with. History is replete with failed sieges. Germany did not defeat France's bunkers, they went around them as France did not protect their entire border. Remember the LA riots where store owners with guns convinced the rioters that they had other options. 

What threats might you expect? Fire for one. Noncombustible roof and walls will greatly mitigate that. Stone, brick, or concrete walls will help with ballistic protection. Yes, yes, yes, if someone rolls up with a tank you are SOL. If MGM or the government attacks you it will be very difficult to hold a fixed position. 

While I would prefer to be in a remote site where the bad guys are likely to be fewer and have less recourse to backup, at some point you will either need to stand your ground or just decide to wander aimlessly.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

There is a guy named Selco who has a web site called *SHTF School. * He went through the Balkan War in Kosovo, I think, and he's got a lot of good, practical information about surviving chaos in a city.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Starcreek said:


> There is a guy named Selco who has a web site called *SHTF School. * He went through the Balkan War in Kosovo, I think, and he's got a lot of good, practical information about surviving chaos in a city.


If this is the one I remember, it is the most definitive story I have ever read about urban living during TEOTHWAWKI. :2thumb:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It's POSSIBLE to survive a complete economic collapse / grid down environment in a city. I'm not sure how likely it is. The good news is that your survival chances keep getting better as each day passes by. I think that most people will die from thirst or drinking unsafe drinking water. Also, more people will have guns than have food. I think I lot of people will take each other out.

I expect that within a day or two or three of no electricity, no police, and no help, you'll have people kicking in the door of every house looking for food and water. If they miss your house or if you live in a big enough building when you can hide with your supplies you'll probably be OK. I think every city will be a ghost town in 30 days or less.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I hear some say things will go south after a day or two but I've seen ice storms, nor'easters and hurricanes where everyone was out of electricity, heat and closed stores for a week or two without a meltdown. Granted, I live in podunk and there was always an end in sight and tension between factions seem way stronger these days.. But in a big city, I think you would have to turn into a shrewd, ruthless bastard real fast, and unbelievably lucky,to survive long term. And you are spot on about it getting far worse, far faster in warm or hot weather. The more society becomes an entitled slave to big government, the farther things will slide when the easy life is gone.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Lots of fore thought !*

I think it would take lots of planning and strategizing to prepare your home, or wherever you think you would live.

I think lots of skills would make it more possible to survive.

I also think this would be one situation where luck or the Grace of God would be the final piece.

People could survive in the worst places, while others in the best might not.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

*Apartment Fort*

I live in a 2nd. floor apartment. Front door has security screen door in steel frame. Closet door directly behind front door is a perfect fit to act as a blocking wedge. Quick window barricades for every window, prefabricated and ready for a fast installation. Enough food and water for 3 months. Fire arms -12 ga. shotgun, 2 pistols, and scorpion Evo 3 -SBR.

Plan A) Remain hidden , never leave apartment until end of 3 months.
Plan B) Defend against small group of bad guys.
plan C) Defend and retreat to other apartment through walls and bug out to hidden stash close by. 
Plan D) return to apartment and remove dead bodies who have tripped booby traps and / or eaten poisoned food left behind.
Plan E) After things have calmed down, relocated to better surrounding - real estate should be very cheap.

Let me know what I could do better.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

hiwall said:


> If there ever is TEOTWAWKI and that is a very big if then yes people will survive in the cities. It would be much easier in the southern cities but I would expect some in the northern cities also.
> For the first month or three I would think you would have to remain hidden and survive on your stored food and water. After three or so months then the population of the city would be much reduced and you could likely leave your hide out to do some light foraging.
> In an apartment building you could barricade your door at first then after a bit you could throw your furniture and the furniture of those who had already left into the stairwells to block them. That would discourage intruders and give you an early warning system. When you deemed it safe or when you were near out of supplies then you could remove the furniture and go explore.


The firestorms in CA cities "if" SHTF will make normal fires look like a picnic BBQ!

the last one here had 50' walls of flames and was moving across rich people houses so they had to put it out LOL! it was started by a teenage girl. she thought it would be cool to see what happens.

if SHTF and you're in a city... good luck. I'm in a city of 100k, and I'm on the outskirts, sort of, and that helps maybe... maybe. I need more maps and GPS gear.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> I live in a 2nd. floor apartment. Front door has security screen door in steel frame. Closet door directly behind front door is a perfect fit to act as a blocking wedge. Quick window barricades for every window, prefabricated and ready for a fast installation. Enough food and water for 3 months. Fire arms -12 ga. shotgun, 2 pistols, and scorpion Evo 3 -SBR.
> 
> Plan A) Remain hidden , never leave apartment until end of 3 months.
> Plan B) Defend against small group of bad guys.
> ...


I'm not a moderator, and I'm not going to alert this thread to them, but you should realize a couple things, because if they see this, you're going to get to get to talk to at least one of them, and they will not be happy.

we don't discuss booby traps. setting booby traps is a violation of standing laws, you can't do it, and therefore it's not done, it's not even remotely permissible.

poisoning food... see above.

I have no problem with bad guys getting bad things happening to them, the problems with booby traps and poisoned food is they are indiscriminate, it could be a thief or an 8 year old that found it...

that's not how I want to end... answering for dead babies. is that something you want on your soul?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> The firestorms in CA cities "if" SHTF will make normal fires look like a picnic BBQ!


I agree 100% but in most downtown areas there is little to burn on the outsides of the cement buildings. Fires could (and likely will) be set inside some buildings but not likely to spread to another cement building. In the suburbs it would be the opposite, a fire started would jump from home to home and likely even jump across streets. Huge areas would maybe burn to the ground. Even if your building was untouched by fire the whole city/suburbs area would likely be covered with smoke for an extended time period. Just breathing would be an issue.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You might catch a break if people are doing home invasions at night in your area. You could put a bunch of stuff out in your yard. Make it look like your home was already looted. Put out a laptop, TV, a small jewelry box with some cheap jewelry, etc. It should look like stuff that people might take.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

tmttactical said:


> I live in a 2nd. floor apartment. Front door has security screen door in steel frame. Closet door directly behind front door is a perfect fit to act as a blocking wedge. Quick window barricades for every window, prefabricated and ready for a fast installation. Enough food and water for 3 months. Fire arms -12 ga. shotgun, 2 pistols, and scorpion Evo 3 -SBR.
> 
> Plan A) Remain hidden , never leave apartment until end of 3 months.
> Plan B) Defend against small group of bad guys.
> ...


I don't know how you stay in a second floor apartment that long when you need to get rid of garbage and sewage. I don't know how you have the floor strength to store 3 months worth of water in a second floor apartment. Water weighs about 8.34 lbs per gallon. A 90 day supply for one person at a gallon a day would weigh over 800 lbs.

Assuming you dump sewage at 3 AM every day you're going to have some clear nights lit by the moon. The full moon is the worst because it's the brightest and rises at sunset. Then you have to figure out where to dump it. Farther away is better but it means you have to be outside longer.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

PeachesBackwards said:


> I accept the fact that many of you think the chances of surviving TEOTWAWKI in a City is low if not impossible but if you think its possible how would you do it? Lets define City as any area within a Cities boundaries including suburbs.


I read thru the entire thread but we can't help you Peaches if you don't give us more details... Like where do YOU live? In an apt or a house in the suburbs??? We need more information before we can possibly give you logical advice on how you could prepare...


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## aaronliford07 (Jul 14, 2015)

I would recommend buying Strategic Relocation by Joel Skousen. He breaks down different states and identifies the potential threats for each. So it would really be dependent on which city that you are living in. However, history has shown that those that live in the country have a better chance of survival.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

BillS said:


> I don't know how you stay in a second floor apartment that long when you need to get rid of garbage and sewage. I don't know how you have the floor strength to store 3 months worth of water in a second floor apartment. Water weighs about 8.34 lbs per gallon. A 90 day supply for one person at a gallon a day would weigh over 800 lbs.
> 
> Assuming you dump sewage at 3 AM every day you're going to have some clear nights lit by the moon. The full moon is the worst because it's the brightest and rises at sunset. Then you have to figure out where to dump it. Farther away is better but it means you have to be outside longer.


Bills, Good questions!

I plan to continue using toilet. Store urine and other waste water to flush toilet. Worse case, cut access hole into other (empty) joining apartments and then into roof. Dump waste off roof at far end of building. Water storage will be spread out in apartment, one reason is weight and second reason, don't want all my supplies in just one room. Non-bio waste will be bagged and stationed in front of all external access points, to act as additional trip hazards to slow any bad guys down. The apartment complex is a high point in the area, no overlooking structures. Please feel free to ask additional questions, so that I can cover as many bases as possible.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Beaniemaster2 said:


> I read thru the entire thread but we can't help you Peaches if you don't give us more details... Like where do YOU live? In an apt or a house in the suburbs??? We need more information before we can possibly give you logical advice on how you could prepare...


PB is a troll claiming to live in Los Angeles in an apartment.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*Not optimistic but...*



PeachesBackwards said:


> I accept the fact that many of you think the chances of surviving TEOTWAWKI in a City is low if not impossible but if you think its possible how would you do it? Lets define City as any area within a Cities boundaries including suburbs.


I think all things are possible...

A big consideration is how prepared you are to survive before hand.

Air quality may be a big issue if things start burning that aren't supposed to be burning. You might need air filtration and if you can find a building in a more open part of the city it might help this out!

Shelter is the biggest concern. This is largely an issue of location location location... If you can find a residential building in a re-purposed factory or warehouse away from the main residential and commercial areas, with a little space between buildings to help prevent fire from catching to you building you will do well. Fire is a big concern I have in the city post SHTF. Of course along with fire resistance you need bullet resistance and strategic design. You need a building that is defensible with few controllable enterances, bottlenecks that you can turn into kill zones, and thick walls. While on the topic of shelter, although people are not often considered part and parcel with shelter in an apartment building they really are. You want to find a building filled with working class people, people with real skills, and some honor--any concentrations of rich yups and welfare vagabonds are to be avoided!!! People are needed to provide security, and you are most likely to find those willing to provide for the common defense amoung the working class. Its also amoung this demographic that you are most likely to find guns. People who are hard working and willing to pull to gether will be essential to fortifying your apartment building, combatting fire, providing for the common defense, and doing things like farming that make long term survival possible.

Water, next to security and fire, tops out my top three concerns. All those people are so useful to survival, I really do believe everyone willing to work and pull a trigger is an asset, but they all need to drink and eat. Having water storage, but more important water catchment in place before the SHTF, or getting it together ASAP after, so that you have 1 gallon of water per day per person, is essential to survival in the city!

Food, strangely enough is not that important, at least not at first! But people gotta eat eventually, so food storage but more importantly starting roof top or court yard gardens before a collapse is really key. If you can get your neighbors to work on a community garden before a collapse this would be a good sign that they might be the type of people you will need afterwards.

I suggested the need for defensive weapons in the shelter section above and usually I would suggest defensive weapons as a more urgent priority, but in the city I think the priority early on is not going out...because for most people in the cities there really aren't all that many resources and the risk reward is far to high in the city. If you are able to have weapons already in place, particularly weapons to share with your neighbors, then great, otherwise I would not go out looking for weapons in the city too quickly. When you do go out looking for weapons if you are in a city with restrictive gun laws you might have to think outside the box to find guns...


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*In a Major distast*

In a major disaster


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

Grimm said:


> PB is a troll claiming to live in Los Angeles in an apartment.


Hmmmmmmmmmm Thanks


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*In an EOTWAWKI situation*

In an EOTWAWKI situation, city's will be death traps.

If I realize that I am in a death trap, the key to my survival is to get out of the trap before the trap is sprung.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Many people living in the cities have very little choice of what they can do. Some do not own a car. Many are living paycheck to paycheck. Many have very few options as to where they live due to their financial situation. 
Yes some preps cost little or nothing. Water can be saved in clean used bottles or jars. Some food could be stockpiled very cheaply (cheap canned goods, ramen, pasta, etc).
Escape/evacuating from the city could be very difficult even if done before the bulk of the people know what is going on. With no car and no or very little money leaving would be a big problem.
Many people living in small towns face the same problems.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

The first thing you will have to do is either make allies or enemies of those in your apt building and nearby locations. If you can come together as one survival group and store enough food and water for the community you will be much better off from a defensive standpoint. If you try to hide away you will be fighting them off from day one. As a group you could protect each other and your resources much more effectively but that means you will need more resources. If you have a group the best thing to do is immediately gather as many resources as possible under constant guard. While using those resources(food and water) immediately work to replace them by establishing gardens and ways to store as much water as possible.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

*Thanks for Info.*



Dakine said:


> I'm not a moderator, and I'm not going to alert this thread to them, but you should realize a couple things, because if they see this, you're going to get to get to talk to at least one of them, and they will not be happy.
> 
> we don't discuss booby traps. setting booby traps is a violation of standing laws, you can't do it, and therefore it's not done, it's not even remotely permissible.
> 
> ...


Dakine:

Thanks for the heads up. I did not know these are a forbidden subjects. I was posting with the understanding that the S had already hit the fan. I would never, ever install traps prior to this actually happening.

I would not want to injure an innocent child but I don't know of any children capable of breaking down my steel security screen door and then knocking my front door off it's hinges. Prior to the SHTF, there is nothing in my apartment worth killing for, except my wife. A home invasion vs. property theft. Once the SHTF has started, theft of my supplies does become a matter of survival for me and my wife, that changes the entire outlook and level of response.

Please let me know if there are other taboo subjects I should avoid. I do not want to violate the rules of this forum. I took no offense from your post and I do sincerely thank you for the heads up. I will avoid posting on these topic.

Thank you. :kiss:


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

BillS said:


> I think that most people will die from thirst or drinking unsafe drinking water.


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## Iafrate (Oct 9, 2013)

The possibility means nothing. The probability means everything.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Iafrate said:


> The possibility means nothing. The probability means everything.


A large storage room with reinforced locks in an office building might work. The office building is for sale. You have access to the keys. When things get bad you bring in enough food, water, and other supplies for you and your family. You do that while the elevator still works. The higher up in the building the safer it is. After the power goes out not too many people are going to walk up to the 12th floor of an empty office building and spend time forcing reinforced doors open.

My sister-in-law used to work as a janitor in a 4 story building. Her office was behind a locked door in the furnace room. Assuming it's not going to have a problem with flooding, it would be the perfect place to hide out for the first month.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

*Impossible to Make Serious Allies in Apartment Building & Here's Why*



millertimedoneright said:


> The first thing you will have to do is either make allies or enemies of those in your apt building and nearby locations. If you can come together as one survival group and store enough food and water for the community you will be much better off from a defensive standpoint. If you try to hide away you will be fighting them off from day one. As a group you could protect each other and your resources much more effectively but that means you will need more resources. If you have a group the best thing to do is immediately gather as many resources as possible under constant guard. While using those resources(food and water) immediately work to replace them by establishing gardens and ways to store as much water as possible.


I'm storing up plenty of food & water reserves that I'd normally eat/drink normally during the year (i.e. Spaghetti, black beans, bottled water. etc.) so its not like I'm spending money on stuff I won't be eating regularly during the year just buying it in advance. If I mentioned this to people I was friendly with who would be "Allies" none of these people would do the same. So the bottom line is if it was TEOTWAKI they'd all kill me for my resources if push came to shove. Yes alternatively, I could share my resources with them for their security but that would deplete my resources within a month or so and wouldn't do me any good.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

BillS said:


> A large storage room with reinforced locks in an office building might work. The office building is for sale. You have access to the keys. When things get bad you bring in enough food, water, and other supplies for you and your family. You do that while the elevator still works. The higher up in the building the safer it is. After the power goes out not too many people are going to walk up to the 12th floor of an empty office building and spend time forcing reinforced doors open.
> 
> My sister-in-law used to work as a janitor in a 4 story building. Her office was behind a locked door in the furnace room. Assuming it's not going to have a problem with flooding, it would be the perfect place to hide out for the first month.


Yeah that is what I thought too but the problem for me is that costs MONEY much more than I have.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> Dakine:
> 
> Thanks for the heads up. I did not know these are a forbidden subjects. I was posting with the understanding that the S had already hit the fan. I would never, ever install traps prior to this actually happening.
> 
> ...


hi, it's all about time and place. You need to ask yourself those kind of very serious questions in advance, and recognize the problems with unintended casualties. The forum mods can be very harsh if they see things leaning towards what is a no-go situation WROL still applies.

That kind of leaves you in a gray area, you want to be ready, but you don't want to kill kids... the underlying mechanism is still indiscriminate and my argument still stands, just because the only thing there NOW is you and your wife doesn't mean you won't voluntarily leave or be forced out at no notice whatsoever (a good reason to have a BOB friends) fire can make you leave places and things you used to be really attached to, so can flooding. natural disasters are my public enemy #1, not boogey men. bad guys I can handle more easily than some super earth quake or volcano explosion or some other crazy thing, severe weather... I'll do my best.

Get game cams they are cheap, especially right now in Christmas season. Its never a bad idea to know what is moving about around your area
There are more defensible positions and places that make you an easy target. If at all possible, spend more time on commute and less money on rent/mortgage so that you can distance yourself from the people who have NO PREPS AT ALL.
Signs in both english and spanish here could be a possible double edged blade, especially depending how things fall apart. There's an argument to be made for presenting a sign in spanish means you targeted "or victimized" a certain class of offenders. i have NFI. I really don't have a problem with anyone that isn't actively trying to do me or my livelihood harm. and I live in a not so great neighborhood with the jail visible from my hilltop locale. so... :club:


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm going to flip the subject 180 degrees to different perspective.

If I was the head of a band thieves looking for resources in a city.

1. From maps, recon or questioning locals, locate the possible water sources.
2. Under the cover of darkness, send it scouts to observe the water sources and to remain hidden. I'd give them 2 weeks to accomplish their task before reporting back to me
3. Scouts notice 4 people during the 2 weeks and 3 of them always came from north and left headed back north. The 4th person always came from and left from different directions.
4. I put a few scouts north tasked with determining what building the 3 are returning to. 
5. If I don't have a pressing need to resupply, I put a ring of scouts further out from the water source to nail down the 4th person's base. I'm figuring this person is smart, perhaps dangerous and has a lot to hide. This is the one I'd prefer to attack first.
6. 4 teams of 3 scouts each. A team posted in a hidden position at each corner of the building. Teams are to kill anyone leaving the building. A fifth team is posted back at the water source, in case the building dwellers have hidden escape route. Same orders as the other 4 teams.
7. 2 weeks later we would move in, secure the ground floor, basements, elevator shafts, stairwells and any external fire escapes.
8. Time is in our favor, against the building dwellers. At our leisure we would gradually move up searching every floor.
9. We can search area buildings for resupply, building dwellers can not.

If a person (or group) decides to stay in a city, what steps could they take to prevent the above from happening to them?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> If a person (or group) decides to stay in a city, what steps could they take to prevent the above from happening to them?


If you move around you are always visible but if you sit tight you can be very difficult to locate. 
When your supplies almost run out then you move and then there is no reason to return to your 'base', you just keep moving. But constantly moving can be a double edged sword also. And it don't matter if you are talking in the city or in the wilderness.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Except*



BillS said:


> A large storage room with reinforced locks in an office building might work. The office building is for sale. You have access to the keys. When things get bad you bring in enough food, water, and other supplies for you and your family. You do that while the elevator still works. The higher up in the building the safer it is. After the power goes out not too many people are going to walk up to the 12th floor of an empty office building and spend time forcing reinforced doors open.
> 
> My sister-in-law used to work as a janitor in a 4 story building. Her office was behind a locked door in the furnace room. Assuming it's not going to have a problem with flooding, it would be the perfect place to hide out for the first month.


Except that someone in that high rise is gonna set it on fire cooking with some improvised indoor camp fire.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Seeing some flaws in the process 
A city contains about a weeks food for the population, probably less, in a slow crash, 2 days are going to go by before many people start to see that there is a real problem. (let's go with a country wide power grid failure for example)
with little or no news, and much of that being rumours or calming measures. foods supplies dwindle, hospital generators run out of fuel, weather takes its toll. people start to die, carcasses start to rot en mass, disease starts to run rampant, do you really think you can hole up in these feted conditions??vract:


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> Seeing some flaws in the process
> A city contains about a weeks food for the population, probably less,


I like this one week premise. Let's say that most can feed themselves for a week. Now they are left with a bit of flour and that can of spam. Most that can, and have somewhere to go, will have left by now. There will be many people that choose to stay in the city just because they don't know what else to do. People are not going to eat their last bite and fall over dead. You are going to see a good week of starving people before they lose much strength. You will probably have another couple weeks where people are still dangerous.

You will have at least a month before people start dying from starvation. Most will ration what they have and extend that time further. Many will scrounge, steal, or somehow acquire food if only a little at a time. Some will turn to cannibalism. This will not be a speedy process, or a pretty one. Think about the jews in the concentration camps and how long they lasted while working and with little food.

When bodies start laying around there will be a plague of rats. Rats are good protein. People will get creative with food.

In many places the problem will be water. After about three days without water you are toast. If you are the person with water you will likely prevail against the person with food. Israel won the Six Day War, (I think that's the one), because they kept their troops hydrated.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Some long time friends have decided to shelter in place in their suburb. If things don't get too bad, they have a chance. The food and water parts they understand. They have acquired excellenr personal protection gear(firearms) and he spends time at local ranges. He understands that there will be a need to prevent back flow through the sewer system (water seeking its own level). He is a gifted mechanic and will be sought out to keep things running. Unfortunately only two of their neighbors are shooters. As a bird flies, they are about a 1/2 mile from less than desirable neighbors.
If things really get bad they have little defense against those who would steal a truck and run it into their home (their reason for staying). Their two sons haven't a clue. They are not ready should a catastrophe occur during winter with an alternative heat source. In spite of excellent vehicles, they are too far inside a major metro area to have the odds in their favor should they decide on a "plan B"- get outta Dodge.
There are many things to consider.


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