# Concerning fats



## jdege (Dec 7, 2012)

There are, as everyone knows, three macronutrients - protein, fat, and carbohydrates. The usual choices for long-term storable survival foods are high in carbs, moderate in protein, and very low in fat.

One cup of whole wheat, for example, contains 120 grams of net carbs, 22 grams of protein, and 3 grams of fat. A cup of pinto beans contains 30 grams of net carbs, 15 grams of protein, and 1 gram of fat.

But a diet on such staples is dangerously deficient in fat.

I've seen suggestions that one should stockpile a couple of gallons of cooking oil, as well as grains and beans. And a year back that seemed reasonable to me.

But over the last year I've found out that I am severely insulin resistant, that I don't tolerate excessive carbs well, and that most of what I'd learned about the dangers of dietary fat from the popular press was wrong, and without scientific foundation.

Most of which is irrelevant to the discussion. But what is relevant is the chemical stability of fats. Particularly, the tendency of fats to become oxidized, and thus rancid.

What I didn't know, a year ago, was that saturated fats are chemically stable, monounsaturated fats are less so, and polyunsaturated fats are much less so. To the point that most processed vegetable oils have already rancid before they go into the bottle, and the only reason people don't notice is because of the chemical deodorizing process they go through.

So I was wondering if anyone had advice about stockpiling saturated fats.

Any advice on stockpiling saturated fats? Could we expect this sort of life, by vacuum packing the store-bought stuff?

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120201-40487.html#.UMjNr3dAbRI


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

You can can cheese though waxing may be a better option. Most hard cheeses will keep for years and possibly decades if properly prepared. In both cases the cheese will continue to age so you might want to start with a mild rather than a sharp. Your canned meat and fish will provide the fats you body require and will help balance out your carb consumption if eaten at the same meal. Last summer I opened a can of smoked salmon that I had put up twenty years before. It had been lost on the back of a lower shelf. It went down real easy. Yes, it stayed down. Your canned goods will basically stay edible as long as the seal remains intact. Collect a variety of proteins. Beef has health benefits that fish does not and vice versa. A small canned ham would really help out that pot of beans. Canned chicken or turkey will be a nice change. The corned moose made a great ruben. You will want a variety to choose from for both your physical and mental health.

You will also want to find carbs with a lower glycemic index. Dreamfields Pasta is an excellent start.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Potatoes are a healthy carb along with rice. The problem is that today our foods are over processed, thus killing off the benefits of the carb to begin with.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I haved asked that same question here. Here are the things I have figured and am stocking and planning to stock. 

Ghee basically canned butter cook and use it as butter on breads and in cooking baking stuff. 
Peanuts besides storing some pre mixed as GORP I am going to try my hand at growing some folks on here have said your plain uncooked peanuts from the store will sprout and grow/produce gonna try a big tub of em myself. (I can't work at ground level so do all my plants at waist height on tubs and pots. 
Peanut butter keep it sealed it stores practically for ever.
Gonna try canning lard no reason it shouldn't can if you can can the pork meats and make em stable.
Gonna can all kinds of meat in stews, chilli, soups, meatloaf, and some just as the meat such as bacon, beef roast, pork steak, and Chicken breasts. (boneless no sense wasting the space)
I have Olive oil in storeage I think it will be fine and even if it does go rancid if you get it hot and keep it hot for a while it may taste funny but will not hurt you and will still give you your fat. 
I have canned processed meats such as tamales, treet, vienna sausages on storage and am always adding a little more. Dehydrated eggs for cooking recipes I will be adding some to just scramble as well but haven't yet. Folks on here are dehydrating their own and I really wanna give that a try am waiting for a super sale deal to give it a try. 

I reccomend looking at the canning threads and see all the meats that are being canned and try canning some of your own. It's amazing just about everything can be canned and if it can't say so here and someone will show how it CAN! amazing folks here. 

And yeah storing fats costs money same with low carb diets I am diabetic and the docs always wanna know why I"M not dong better at cutting carbs. Same answer all the time Carbs are cheap everything else is expensive. And I"m poor. 

Anyway welcome look around you will find plenty of fats to store and how to store em.


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## jdege (Dec 7, 2012)

Caribou said:


> You can can cheese though waxing may be a better option. Most hard cheeses will keep for years and possibly decades if properly prepared.


I'd been thinking about cheeses and hard sausages, but I didn't bring it up in my post because I didn't want to introduce too many topics.

I'm a computer geek, and on occasion I attend user group meetings. These always involve pizza, which I can no longer eat. And they usually start too early in the evening to grab a bite on the way from work, and last too long for me to be confident of my ability to sit around all that pizza, for that long, without joining in.

So, for situations like that, where I need some solid calories that I can carry around, without refrigeration, and without being able to rely on plates or tableware, I've been using hard cheese and sausage.

And I've been thinking about bulking up on it, if I can find a cheap source, and a sure way of storing it.

I'd not considered canning. I don't can, generally. Mostly, I vacuum seal, either in mylar or in jars or buckets. Hard cheese, waxed, and hard sausages generally keep well, just sitting on a shelf or hanging from a joist in the basement. I was wondering whether they'd keep better, or longer, vacuum sealed, or sealed with an oxygen absorber. Certainly they'd be less likely to pick up contaminants from the environment.

I've not experimented with this, yet, mainly because of cost. Cheeses and sausages are far more expensive than bulk grains, and I've been looking for deals. (And have yet to find any.)


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## PennyPincher (Dec 5, 2011)

cnsper said:


> *Potatoes are a healthy carb along with rice*. The problem is that today our foods are over processed, thus killing off the benefits of the carb to begin with.


No they are not.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

JDege, what about getting fats from nuts? I don't know where you are located, but here in Texas we have lots of pecans and peanuts. Easy to grow and easy to store.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

jdege said:


> I'd not considered canning. I don't can, generally.


When your preferred way of doing things leads you to a dead-end and you still have a problem that needs to be resolved, then it's time to look for a new way of addressing that problem.

I'd say that it's time to give canning a fresh look.



> Hard cheese, waxed, and hard sausages generally keep well, just sitting on a shelf or hanging from a joist in the basement. I was wondering whether they'd keep better, or longer, vacuum sealed, or sealed with an oxygen absorber. Certainly they'd be less likely to pick up contaminants from the environment.


The whole point of dry curing a hanging salami is for it to pick up "contaminants" from the environment. The molds that grow on the meat cure it, dry it, and protect it.












> I've not experimented with this, yet, mainly because of cost. Cheeses and sausages are far more expensive than bulk grains, and I've been looking for deals. (And have yet to find any.)


You can reduce the cost by making instead of buying. There are sausage and salami hobbyist boards. Same with people who make cheese.

If you really get into it you can buy a pig or two and really go to town with your sausage making. Look at what this woman and her family accomplished in a day-long sausage making party which started with two pigs and ended up with lots of good eats: (lots of pictures at her blog)

Saturday was Pig Processing Day at the Perizzolo compound. Chad got up at 6am and headed over to help out. They started off with 2 pigs: one 215 lbs, the other 385 lbs, and 125 kg in pork shoulders. Out of that they were able to make 29 sopresse, 950 sausages, 45 musetti, 55 salami, 12 capicolli and 1 pancetta! Talk about a heavy work load.​


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## kyredneck (Aug 12, 2012)

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f36/lard-home-rendered-preserved-12623/

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f36/wax-can-12840/

You're making this out to be a whole lot harder than it actually is. Properly canned fat will keep for many years and not go rancid.


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## AnonyManx (Oct 2, 2012)

Coconut oil is AMAZING stuff. Tasty and very shelf-stable. Also great for skin and hair. I buy gallon pails from Tropical Traditions.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

PennyPincher said:


> No they are not.


Yes they are, and they are much better than pasta. But, like all our other foods, they have to be taken in moderation. It is not just what you eat but how you eat it.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

jdege said:


> There are, as everyone knows, three macronutrients - protein, fat, and carbohydrates. The usual choices for long-term storable survival foods are high in carbs, moderate in protein, and very low in fat.
> 
> One cup of whole wheat, for example, contains 120 grams of net carbs, 22 grams of protein, and 3 grams of fat. A cup of pinto beans contains 30 grams of net carbs, 15 grams of protein, and 1 gram of fat.
> 
> ...


The rate that fats "go rancid" is related to temperature. I buy my oils in bulk in 35# jugs at Gordon Food Service. I always have two of them in the deep freeze. Chemistry tells you that a chemical reaction occurs at 1/2 the rate for every 10 degrees centigrade drop in temperature. For talking purposes let's assume oil will go rancid in 6 months. That is assuming the temperature is 20 degrees C.

At 10 degrees the oil will go rancid at 12 months.
At 0 degrees C (another 10 degree drop) the oil will go bad in 24 months.
At negative 10 degrees C ( another 10 degree drop) it will last 48 months.

I only keep oils in the freezer for a maximum of a year and a half. I rotate them out at least that frequently. I like to deep fry turkeys often and use the oil up. I replace the oil I remove from the freezer with a fresh oil. I just keep rotating my stock. I also filter and try to save the turkey oil for a few weeks in the freezer as well. This works out well for all of our fish fries and family gatherings.

I admit that reliance on a freezer post SHTF is not a great idea. However, when the SHTF I will start out with oil that is still at time "ZERO". I will always have 70 pounds of oil in my freezer until that time comes. This has worked for me for 15 years and I see no reason to change what has worked well.

Oils and fats appear to be a requirement for a healthy life. On the very plus side everything tastes good but fried stuff tastes GRRRRREAT.

Tugs


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## jdege (Dec 7, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Yes they are, and they are much better than pasta. But, like all our other foods, they have to be taken in moderation. It is not just what you eat but how you eat it.


The body processes glucose the same way, regardless of whether it entered the body as starch or as sugar, or whether that starch was in pasta or in potatoes.

That doesn't mean that either pasta or potatoes are "bad" foods, only that you need to know what your own tolerance is.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

jdege said:


> The body processes glucose the same way, regardless of whether it entered the body as starch or as sugar, or whether that starch was in pasta or in potatoes.
> 
> That doesn't mean that either pasta or potatoes are "bad" foods, only that you need to know what your own tolerance is.


Yeah, that is what the high fructose corn syrup people are trying to tell us too.

Your body may process glucose the same way and I expect it to do that but in raw form it has to break it down and more passes through you. If you have a food that has been ground, chopped, mixed with other stuff and other wise processed/cooked the product has changed.

Think of it like fertilizer. Amonium Nitrate is not bad, it is when you mix it with other ingredients that bad things happen.

It is for this reason that I would buy frozen veggies over canned. Ever read the label on a can of peaches or pears? Next time take a look and you will be surprised.

The point is that your body has to break it down from the raw state and that in itself is a benefit because it requires energy to break down the food and this enables you to maintain your body temperature.


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## jdege (Dec 7, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Yeah, that is what the high fructose corn syrup people are trying to tell us too.


When the HFCS people tell us that HFCS is just as safe as table sugar, they are right. HFCS is a combination of glucose and fructose and table sugar is a combination of glucose and fructose, and they are both equally toxic.

As for "processing", aside from fructose, carbs aren't processed, to speak of, during digestion, Starches get split down into individual glucose modules as soon as they mix with saliva in your mouth. They pass stright through the stomach and are absorbed quickly.

If eaten alone, that is. Mix your carbs with protein and fat, and the chemical process is the same, but the physiology slows it down, because the fats and proteins sit in the stomach, and are released into the intestines slowly.

So a baked potato, eaten with butter or sour cream will result in a longer and lower glucose spike than a baked potato eaten plain.

Carbs are carbs are carbs, but the stuff that surrounds the carbs can make a difference. This is why a lot of people who can't tolerate white potatoes can tolerate yams. Yams digest slower, so the glucose enters the body at a lower rate.

So don't pretend to yourself that potatoes or rice are healthy, while bread or pasta is not. Either might be, or might not be, depending upon an individual's insulin sensitivity and on what else is eaten with it.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

jdege said:


> Carbs are carbs are carbs, but the stuff that surrounds the carbs can make a difference. This is why a lot of people who can't tolerate white potatoes can tolerate yams. Yams digest slower, so the glucose enters the body at a lower rate.


Yams are not potatoes. Do you mean Sweet Potatoes? There is a difference. Yams are not related to potatoes at all. Sweet poatoes are a type of potatoes.

Sweet potatoes are better for you. They have much more vitamin A than yams.


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## AnonyManx (Oct 2, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Sweet potatoes are better for you. They have much more vitamin A than yams.


Actually, they contain beta carotene, which _can_ be converted to vitamin A in the body if everything is working properly. True vitamin A is only found in animal sources - things like grass-fed butter, lard, egg yolk, liver, or cod liver oil. Beta carotene is a plant-form precursor to animal-form vitamin A; animal-form vitamin A is what our bodies actually need.

Some current studies estimate that less than 10% of beta carotene ends up successfully converted to vitamin A, and there are many ways the process can break down...


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## preponomics (Nov 18, 2012)

for ME - coconut oil, cheese, cured meats, jerky, and canned meats.

Pretty new to curing meat/wax/cheese, but have jerky, coconut oil, and long term canned meat with good success. I test my stuff periodically. 

Good at 6 and 7 on canned meat, jerky 

coconut oil is practically indefinite if you keep the temp right.

eat long term products at your own risk as you might implode with pestilence, food born killers inside and death.


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## preponomics (Nov 18, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Yes they are, and they are much better than pasta. But, like all our other foods, they have to be taken in moderation. It is not just what you eat but how you eat it.


Potatoes are a starch and I feel its important to get some starch from potatoes or some kind of bean, however, I think its like complex carbohydrates in that when you get too many, the body can be inundated with too many triglycerides that lead to glycation and the hardening of the arteries CAD.

However its debated that glycation typically comes from refined sugars only. Depends on which molecular biologist your trust 

I believe in moderation, even moderation itself, unless its a proven poison like processed high fructose corn syrup


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