# WARNING your compost could kill your entire garden for years.



## LastOutlaw

I recently bought a couple small 10 acre pastures next to our place to graze our horses and maybe one day a few cows. These pastures are overgrown and have not been maintained. Blackberries, weeds and thistle trees are everywhere. I have begun a spray campaign in the hopes of regaining control of these pastures which all have a nice bed of Bermuda growing under the weeds.

Most of the ranchers around here are using a DOW product called "Grazon" . It is a broad leaf poison. Kills the weeds and leaves the grass. 
There are no grazing restrictions on this stuff other than for lactating animals.

So I keep studying this product and found a couple of articles on people poisoning their gardens by using compost from dairies or ranches that have sprayed their pastures with Grazon. Seems this chemical will pass through an animal's system and still be viable as a broad leaf poison. 

Supposedly plants like corn and such will not show any effects as they are a thin leafed plant but egg plant, tomatoes all grow twisted leaves and beans will not grow secondary leaves. 
According to these gardeners the chemical will stay in the soil for a few years and cause problems. They say that addi9ng lots of new soil and charcoal will help speed the chemical breakdown.

If you have had problems with curling leaves on broad leafed plants in your garden the issue may not be your gardening skills but the natural compost you used in the last few years or even the hay you mixed manure with for compost.


----------



## VoorTrekker

Thank you. One must be very careful about where they acquire their green matter for composting. 

Those chemicals do poison the compost and humus.


----------



## RedBeard

Good post! We are very careful where we get hay because of this.


----------



## backlash

Thanks for the heads up.
My neighbor worked at a feed lot and he offered to bring me some 3 year old manure.
I expected a pickup load and he brought out a 10 yard dump truck full.
My wife told him to just dump it out by the garden.
10 yards is a lot of manure and 4 years later I still have a pile left.
No problems so I guess it was OK.


----------



## Davarm

Seven or eight years ago, dad got a load of manure from a local farmer, put it on his garden and everything he put it on died. The culprit - herbicide on the grass and hay fed to the cows.

Moral of that story - use manure/compost from other sources at your own risk.


------------------------------------


Some years ago a neighbor sprayed a field adjoining my property with "RangeStar(Dicamba/2 4-D)" and it wound up killing most of my garden, 2 pear trees and almost killed the rest of my fruit trees. The back part of my garden still hasn't recovered.

While checking out the herbicide, found that it(dicamba/2 4-D) has a "half life" of 3+ years and it can survive the digestive system of animals and persist in the manure. AND anything(broadleaf) that manure is used on can be poisoned and killed off.

I called the local representative for the herbicide and was informed that biological activity is the best way to break it down so the better it is composted the faster the components will degrade.

If you suspect a "Herbicide Drift", call your local state agricultural representative and report it, it is a violation of Federal Law to allow it to "drift" onto other properties.


----------



## Starcreek

LastOutlaw said:


> I recently bought a couple small 10 acre pastures next to our place to graze our horses and maybe one day a few cows. These pastures are overgrown and have not been maintained. Blackberries, weeds and thistle trees are everywhere. I have begun a spray campaign in the hopes of regaining control of these pastures which all have a nice bed of Bermuda growing under the weeds.


Get goats. They eat everything BUT the grass and will leave you with a nice, green, grassy pasture, and the added benefit of a manure fertilizer that starts improving the soil as soon as it hits the ground. It doesn't "burn" plants like chicken or horse manure.

And when you're through with the goats, just take them to the auction and get your money back. Or not.... they make good companion grazers with your cattle or horses, keeping the thistles, poison oak, blackberry briers and other "weeds" from coming back. They won't compete with other livestock for the grass.

If you have a good, bushy pasture, you can raise 2 goats per acre with no additional feed needed. Kikos don't even require shelter, although other breeds need a minimal type of shelter from the weather.

And it's all completely natural and good for the soil.


----------



## RedBeard

I hate chemicals in farming. No need for it!


----------



## VoorTrekker

I never understood why people take manure and other compostables and put those directly into their gardens, instead of composting it in a bin or "facility" and waiting for a year to use the compost.


----------



## Pessimistic2

VoorTrekker said:


> I never understood why people take manure and other compostables and put those directly into their gardens, instead of composting it in a bin or "facility" and waiting for a year to use the compost.


Could be they are dumbazzes like me, and just don't/didn't know the benefits of "aging." :brickwall:


----------



## RedBeard

VoorTrekker said:


> I never understood why people take manure and other compostables and put those directly into their gardens, instead of composting it in a bin or "facility" and waiting for a year to use the compost.


Your right but it also depends on the poop. Goat and rabbit, deer for that matter are better to put directly on. Where all i have ever heard is never put horse crap on cow is better. I find that to be false, a 5 year old pile of horse crap is way way better than cow. That has been my fathers garden secret for years. Not one drop of fertilizer spread all composted horse poop. But against some of these chemicals composting doesn't always kill them so a risk is that you could loose your crops.


----------



## weedygarden

Starcreek said:


> Get goats. They eat everything BUT the grass and will leave you with a nice, green, grassy pasture, and the added benefit of a manure fertilizer that starts improving the soil as soon as it hits the ground. It doesn't "burn" plants like chicken or horse manure.
> 
> And when you're through with the goats, just take them to the auction and get your money back. Or not.... they make good companion grazers with your cattle or horses, keeping the thistles, poison oak, blackberry briers and other "weeds" from coming back. They won't compete with other livestock for the grass.
> 
> If you have a good, bushy pasture, you can raise 2 goats per acre with no additional feed needed. Kikos don't even require shelter, although other breeds need a minimal type of shelter from the weather.
> 
> And it's all completely natural and good for the soil.


This is it absolutely.

Weed killers are poison, but they have no affect on anything else? If cattle eat weed killer, and then humans eat the beef, we are not affected? At all?

I think it is best to use an alternative method to poison to get rid of weeds, and goats are being used more and more. So much healthier all the way around.


----------



## VoorTrekker

Anyone ever heard of "permaculture?" They would use goats for weed abatement and age their compost before using it in their gardens. 

Also, try raised beds, bin beds and the newer "tower" bins. A tower bin is a plywood base, 3'x3' and a 24" 1x4 pine slats. Four vertical 1x4's at each corner with 1x4 slats making a box, a 1" or 2" gap between slats and 24" to 36" high. There is a 3" space between the 1x4 slats and the edge of the plywood (for stability).

Similar to the Canadian Potato Box.


----------



## tmttactical

weedygarden said:


> This is it absolutely.
> 
> Weed killers are poison, but they have no affect on anything else? If cattle eat weed killer, and then humans eat the beef, we are not affected? At all?
> 
> I think it is best to use an alternative method to poison to get rid of weeds, and goats are being used more and more. So much healthier all the way around.


But wait, won't the goats fart and cause more methane to heat up the planet and kill us all? After all the weed killers will only harm those despicable meat eaters and that leave us vegans alone with our safe spaces and the chance to save the planet. Go weed killers. :sarcasm2:


----------



## Pessimistic2

tmttactical said:


> But wait, won't the goats fart and cause more methane to heat up the planet and kill us all? After all the weed killers will only harm those despicable meat eaters and that leave us vegans alone with out safe spaces and the chance to save the planet. Go weed killers. :sarcasm2:


Species Population Biomass(million tons)
Bacteria total	4 quadrillion quadrillion	1,000,000
Ants 10 billion billion 3,000
Marine fish 800 2,000
Cattle 1.4 billion 520
Termites Many species 445
Humans 7 billion 350

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...with-humans-who-else-is-in-the-7-billion-club

I say the animals are responsible for "global warming"...we're only #6 on the list, and the top five *outweigh us by over 1,600,000,000,000 TONS*....


----------



## marlas1too

all my manure comes from a private very small farm with cows(beef),sheep,chickens and goats so i know my compost pile is safe and with one dog and 8 cats the only things that go on the compost pile is veggie scraps.been using the same people for all my manure for over 15 years--good stuff,no problems what so ever---always go for manure from people you know for sure what they use on their farm


----------



## RedBeard

Pessimistic2 said:


> Species Population Biomass(million tons)
> Bacteria total	4 quadrillion quadrillion	1,000,000
> Ants 10 billion billion 3,000
> Marine fish 800 2,000
> Cattle 1.4 billion 520
> Termites Many species 445
> Humans 7 billion 350
> 
> http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...with-humans-who-else-is-in-the-7-billion-club
> 
> I say the animals are responsible for "global warming"...we're only #6 on the list, and the top five *outweigh us by over 1,600,000,000,000 TONS*....


You forgot 19 billion chickens and over a billion pig.


----------



## Pessimistic2

RedBeard said:


> You forgot 19 billion chickens and over a billion pig.


They got the chickens and pigs listed below us....weight total maybe? But that's still a lotta chicken and pig poop, and methane!!


----------



## terri9630

tmttactical said:


> But wait, won't the goats fart and cause more methane to heat up the planet and kill us all? After all the weed killers will only harm those despicable meat eaters and that leave us vegans alone with our safe spaces and the chance to save the planet. Go weed killers. :sarcasm2:


I could never go vegan. This is my new favorite shirt.


----------



## RedBeard

I m just busting stones of course but,


----------



## terri9630

RedBeard said:


> I m just busting stones of course but,


I'm gonna have to remember that next time I talk to my uncle.


----------



## Meerkat

LastOutlaw said:


> I recently bought a couple small 10 acre pastures next to our place to graze our horses and maybe one day a few cows. These pastures are overgrown and have not been maintained. Blackberries, weeds and thistle trees are everywhere. I have begun a spray campaign in the hopes of regaining control of these pastures which all have a nice bed of Bermuda growing under the weeds.
> 
> Most of the ranchers around here are using a DOW product called "Grazon" . It is a broad leaf poison. Kills the weeds and leaves the grass.
> There are no grazing restrictions on this stuff other than for lactating animals.
> 
> So I keep studying this product and found a couple of articles on people poisoning their gardens by using compost from dairies or ranches that have sprayed their pastures with Grazon. Seems this chemical will pass through an animal's system and still be viable as a broad leaf poison.
> 
> Supposedly plants like corn and such will not show any effects as they are a thin leafed plant but egg plant, tomatoes all grow twisted leaves and beans will not grow secondary leaves.
> According to these gardeners the chemical will stay in the soil for a few years and cause problems. They say that addi9ng lots of new soil and charcoal will help speed the chemical breakdown.
> 
> If you have had problems with curling leaves on broad leafed plants in your garden the issue may not be your gardening skills but the natural compost you used in the last few years or even the hay you mixed manure with for compost.


 Not to speak of flesh eating bacteria in most animal byproducts. We never buy or pick up any manures. We do use compost all the time we make ourselves. Leaves,kitchen scraps and grass mostly leaves. We get it all right here. 
I have raking up leaves to a science now. I put down a huge tarp and just rake them onto it, then drag the tarp to the area needed. I use to pick them up with pitch fork and add to wheel barrow. What a waste of energy that was. Now it is leaf rake and tarp.


----------



## crabapple

Most organic gardeners preach this from their compost pulpits.
There are a hand full of chem's that will do this or kill everything you plant.
ALWAYS ask what kind of fly/insect & weed killer the farmer uses on his/her fields.
Some of it can be inert, some harmful.
Check out garden web organic site for more stories like this.


----------

