# Kidney stone



## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

I had my first experience with these little blessings the other night. I woke up and tried to pull the knife out of my back. I fully expected to find a Kbar back there. 

So how do you guys prevent them?
How do you deal with them?

Any tips?

My dad used to chew Rolaids so I know to avoid calcium but I like my 2% milk every couple of days or so. 

btw I am only 31...


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## dukman (Mar 1, 2009)

I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with them, yet, (knock on wood). I heard that soda pop is a leading cause of them. Good thing I can't have caffeine, I tend to avoid drinking a lot of soda


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

I havent drank pop in almost two years but i do drink sweet tea like its going out of style.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

not drinking enough water is the #1 culprit I'm pretty sure

the stones form when the balance of minerals/salts(electrolytes) etc gets out of balance

WARNING: gatorade/powerade etc are NOT water substitutes! while good for electrolyte deficiencies periodically, too much, depending on activity levels, can actually cause renal failure

what constitutes "too much"?... I don't really know, but coach potatoes probably shouldn't drink gallon jugs of it a day


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

As Blob mentioned drink a lot of water, Below are some general tips for reducing the chances of developing kidney stones:


Drink more fluids. Try to drink enough water to keep your urine clear, about 8 to 10 glasses of water per day. Slowly increase how much you drink, perhaps adding one more glass of water a day until you are drinking 8 to 10 glasses a day. This slow increase will give your body time to adjust to the extra fluids. You are drinking enough water when your urine is clear or light yellow. If it is dark yellow, you are not drinking enough fluids. If you have kidney, heart, or liver disease and have fluid restrictions, talk with your doctor before increasing how much you drink.
Change your diet. This may be helpful, but it depends on what is causing your kidney stones. Your doctor may do more tests before deciding whether changing your diet will help reduce your risk of developing another stone. The results of these tests may suggest that it could be helpful to do one or more of the following:
Increasing how much fiber you eat. Fiber includes oat bran, beans, whole wheat breads, wheat cereals, cabbage, and carrots.
Eating less beef, pork, and poultry.
Eating a moderate or high amount of calcium-rich foods, such as dairy products. Getting your recommended amounts of calcium, combined with a diet low in sodium and protein, may decrease your risk of kidney stones.7 In older people and younger women, one study indicates that eating more calcium-rich foods reduces the risk of kidney stones.8
Avoiding foods that are high in oxalate, such as dark green vegetables, nuts, and chocolate.
Not adding salt when you cook or eat. Try removing the salt shaker from your table.


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## OldFashionedMama (Jun 18, 2009)

All good tips here....except for this one-Are you taking any prescription meds? If you are, check all the labels and make sure kidney issues are not listed as a side effect. Some prescription and even OTC meds can cause imbalances that lead to stones.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

Meat and salt noted. 

The only meds I take are claritan and Generic Tagament.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Over the years I have had a great number of kidney stones, some very large and painful including one I called a rotorooter. Because of talking to a friend that had a bad bout with a stone I learned that vitamin tablet binders can be a culprit, in his case it was calcium stearate that bound vitamin C tabs. I don't see that listed any more, what I see being used as a binder and often a filler is magnesium stearate and it is possible for that to cause stones. I have read about soda pop possibly being a stone maker, my wife and I quit drinking soda pop many years ago. Drinking lots of water is good for flushing the kidneys and I probably don't drink enough at times, however due to changing to a blood type diet around 2000 I have no further stones. Another wonderful thing that happened using the blood type diet is that I got rid of a 20 year low blood sugar problem and lost over 22 pounds. I've heard that because of the purity of German beer it is good for flushing the kidneys, good as excuse as any to have a good brew.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I also have had / have kidney stones. I found that keeping away from calcium rich foods / drinks limits the stones that I have had forming. I highly limit my milk, cheese, ice-cream and "good source of calcium" foods. I try to drink water and herbal teas as my primary water-sources.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

In the middle of mine, I wished to die. A year ago, I felt another starting. I gorged myself on cranberry juice and tea for a few days and the intermittent stab went away. Would definitely try that remedy again.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

i have heard several people talking about feeling them forming. I dont remember feeling anything. 

Care to describe the feeling of the formation?


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

per se I didn't feel a second one starting, but I did feel that unmistakable tuck and stab under the ribs. It would come and go a little, today ,again next week. The feeling you will never forget. That's when I pushed fluids like crazy to help flush it. Might have been lucky or wrong, but it never became a crisis. Just went away. Would do it again as a prayer play to make it go away (hopefully) without the terrible pain.


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## OldFashionedMama (Jun 18, 2009)

pills said:


> i have heard several people talking about feeling them forming. I dont remember feeling anything.
> 
> Care to describe the feeling of the formation?


Persistent but not necessarily immobilizing lower back pain, like feeling you have a pulled muscle. Women might experience sharp, sudden pains, similar to those that accompany ovarian cysts.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

went to the urologist today. Found out some interesting things. 

He said he hardly ever sees KS during the winter. It is when people are out working and not drinking enough water. He also agreed with the Lemon aid breaking down the KS. He said to use real lemons or the concentrate. The powder doesn't seem to work.


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

I have had many (waaay too many) kidney stones. I have gotten them winter,spring,summer and fall. Almost always, they can be traced to a time when I didn't hydrate myself well enough with good old fashioned water. When I think one may be coming on (pain in back -if you've had than one stone and you'll know it), I hit the water, supplimented with slices of lemon, lemonaid (not the junk stuff) and cranberry juice. Apparently, the acids in lemon cuts through the calcium in the stone, the cranberry also helps strengthen your system against any infection a possible urinary infection caused by the stone passing, both have mild dietic (not sure if that's the right word; I mean a product that makes you pee more) affects. 
The water is flushing impurities from your system, including stones that are just starting.
I haven't had near as many since we cut back on caffiene, other find relief by cutting down on dairy foods.
Good luck!


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Buddy of mine wondered allowed why a lot of his troops got kidney stones when they went over. He said they were very hydrated--mandated. I asked him what they drank. He said bottled water only. Aha. Probably a combination of dehydration + concentration of the minerals found in most bottled water, added for 'taste'? I believe only distilled water has little/no minerals? 

Be careful of gorging on fluids. You can throw other things out of balance. Just make sure you're well hydrated. I was told by an older friend that he has a few beers for his kidney stones when he gets home from work. Supposedly a natural diuretic and recommended by his doc.


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

Cut back on tea. The tannins in tea can help form the stones. My M-i-L was also advised to drink more lemonade once she had one. But, water is best to prevent them. Good luck!


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## the_examined_life (Aug 1, 2009)

I've passed 5 over the past 7 years... but nothing in the last 2 or so. Water has been the largest help. I may still be passing them but they aren't noticed or felt. I tryto drink about 100oz a day...or more.

A few yrs back I passed a rather large one. I fished it out of the toilet and took it in to my ND to have it tested. there are 2 main types of stones from what I understand. Most common is from excesse protein or calcium in the diet. 

I went on the net looking for foods to avoid and got basically the same list that my ND gave me. She also mentioned that the information from studies keeps coming and that everyone's body is different and there is no one easy answer as to why we get them.. but water is the best answer. Also... if you look at the foods on the list you will see foods like sweet potatoes and spinich.... Moderation in all things I guess is the answer. Don't cut foods out of your diet that are good for you, just balance out your intake.

Also.. alcohol and coffee, or caffine for that matter helps to promote them. Not sure exactly how and why I just know that they do from personal exp and advice fom my doc. 

Best of luck...


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## jones34 (Jul 24, 2009)

To Avoid Kidney Stones Take Care Of Following Things:

1)Take Care With Calcium
2)Keep An Eye On Oxalate
3)Be Fluent In Fluids
4)Beware the “Stone Belt”
5)Eat Less Meat
6)Ferret Out Fat
7)Shake The Salt Habit


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

jones34 said:


> To Avoid Kidney Stones Take Care Of Following Things:
> 
> 1)Take Care With Calcium
> 2)Keep An Eye On Oxalate
> ...


What is an oxalate?

Stone-belt? More info please.

I don't know if I would be able to eat less meat - I am a meatatarian .. I can't seem to process vegitables and if I eat a meal of straight vegies I am sittin' on the throne in a very short amount of time.


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## the_examined_life (Aug 1, 2009)

"Oxalates are naturally-occurring substances found in plants, animals, and in humans. In chemical terms, oxalates belong to a group of molecules called organic acids, and are routinely made by plants, animals, and humans. Our bodies always contain oxalates, and our cells routinely convert other substances into oxalates. For example, vitamin C is one of the substances that our cells routinely convert into oxalates. In addition to the oxalates that are made inside of our body, oxalates can arrive at our body from the outside, from certain foods that contain them. "

Detox and do a flush... your body will adjust to the increase in veggies. Stones are the least of your worries with a high meat diet that's lacking fiber, and essential vit/min and "superfoods" or dense "greens" rich in antioxidents.

As for stones... they are typically calcium oxcelate.. an acid that binds with the calcium deposits that build up. If you've every examined one...they look really cool.. but they have all these razor sharp edges. As they tumble down the kidney, ureter, and out the urethra.. those sharp edges pierce the lining and release that acid into the body. That's what casues the intese pain you feel. 

High protein diets and calcium rich foods, if you're prone to stones, should be consumed in moderation.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

mine looked like a mean "goathead"


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## the_examined_life (Aug 1, 2009)

hahahah that's gnarly.. mine reminded me of a mix between crystalized golden brown honey with thorns and the colors in that tiger's eye stone. but those crystal shards sticking out... pretty intense..I'm just amazing that it can actually come out without killing you.


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## gamom (Dec 21, 2009)

I haven't read all three pages of answers but Nettles (an herb) is great for breaking up kidney stones and overall kidney health. People who were on dialysis (for life) have started drinking nettle infusion and actually gotten off of dialysis because of renewed kidney function. Pretty awesome stuff.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

gamom said:


> I haven't read all three pages of answers but Nettles (an herb) is great for breaking up kidney stones and overall kidney health. People who were on dialysis (for life) have started drinking nettle infusion and actually gotten off of dialysis because of renewed kidney function. Pretty awesome stuff.


Thank you for letting me know about nettles. I have never heard of it before, so, of course, Google led me to a page about nettles:

http://www.liveandfeel.com/medicinalplants/nettle.html

Now - I am going to try to make use of the information found (and anything else that you can share with me about it from a personal point of view) and see if I can get rid of the stone that has been bothering me for the last 3 months (or so).


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## gamom (Dec 21, 2009)

Gosh I love nettles! I drink it in infusion form and about 2 cups a day. The oldfashioned way is to take a handful of dried nettle leaf and put in a quart jar, fill the quart jar with boiling water, cap it, let it sit for at least 4 hours or overnight (I usually prepped at night and let it sit til morning), strain out plant material and then drink (I drink it straight as the taste has grown on me, but many sweeten it). It has a very woody taste. Glad I could help  Enjoy!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Now - where do I locate nettles? Is it something that I grow, pick or find in some health-food store ready to use? Like I say ... I had no clue such a thing existed.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> Now - where do I locate nettles? Is it something that I grow, pick or find in some health-food store ready to use? Like I say ... I had no clue such a thing existed.


They are everywhere, you probably have run in to them at one time or another. Here are some photos...nettles - Google Images


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## gamom (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes otherwise known as Stinging Nettles ... but I buy mine from a supplier in Atlanta ~ there are a few good ones online as well. I'm hoping to acquire some plants for a section of my yard to grow and dry my own, as I live just outside of where they abundantly grow. My wonderful husband helps me search the plants on the side of the road every time we go into a region known for nettles to grow.


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## spacestuff4me (Jan 7, 2010)

*Lovely Kidney Stones*

I've passed about 20-25 and some were the size of your pinkie fingernail, that took about 3 months to pass, so I've had a lot of experience with them. I haven't had one in a few years and I still each cheese, dairy, leafy greens and other high oxy foods.

Like others have said, the vast majority of stones are Calcium Oxy and are pretty cool looking crystals. I just read a new theory from a kidney stone specialist who says that the Oxy stones maybe related to not enough calcium in your diet. We've all read about staying away from Calcium, but his research led him to discover that if you don't eat enough calcium, the Oxylate has nothing to bind to and because it has nowhere to go, it becomes crystalized in your kidneys. Whereas if you have some calcium everyday, the Oxy will bind to it and coupled with drinking enough water, will be used by your body or flushed out.

I've changed my diet, I'll have a soda once a week, but water is the most important thing you can do for yourself to prevent stones.

The real trick is how to deal with the stones when you get them and I've got my own methods. When you feel a stone coming, jump into a hot shower, drink a gallon jug of room temp water (your body absorbs it much quicker than cold) and eat some celery (helps relax smooth muscles like kidneys. If the pain doesn't subdue to managable levels, then I'll pop a couple of Vicodan or bang my head against the wall till I pass out. Either one usually works.

Another thing that hasn't been mentioned is excercise. It's vital that you get at least 30-60min of excercise a day and that helps prevent the crystals from settling in one place, plus it forces you to drink more water.

Good luck.


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## mitchshrader (Jan 3, 2009)

Take a quarter cup of apple cider vinegar and put it in a quart of distilled water, with enough honey to kill the tart. Your call on how much, it'll work best if you'll dissolve the honey in hot water and then chill it... drink that quart of water besides 3 others OF DISTILLED water, every day. mineral free water is easy to find. get that. the vinegar will change the Ph of your system and calcium will dissolve instead of precipitating. it's that simple. It won't stop you from needing strong narcotics for a couple of days, but it'll relieve symptoms generally pretty fast. Days..


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Hubby turned grey passing stones,then had lypotripsy to bust em up.Told to stay away from tea,spinish,chocolate and somethign else he can't remember.

His mother sent him an article on stones and coffee.Said coffee desolves stones,so he drinks lots of coffee now for past 12 years ,not a single stone since.Dr. said he would see him back in 5 years or less,but he has had no problems since.

According to what kind of stones maybe,don't know.They said he had the hardest to break up,forgot name of them.Most common doc said.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Ive passed two in the last three years. So much pain. The first time I was at work and I drove myself home. But my wife drive home in labor ( 10 min contractions) so I suppose Im not that tough. Mine were caused by lack of water and too much soda. I have cut down my pop to a quarter of what it once was and started working out. Im not interested in getting them again. Good luck.


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## mtexplorer (Dec 14, 2012)

The following information is based on my personal studies of Holistic medicine and only intended to provide you with alternative information. Always follow what your doctor instructs you to do. 

Need to increase your Vit C intake. The body cannot keep calcium in solution without ascorbic acid. This is why Cranberry juice alleviates the condition. If you have digestive issues the acidic fruits an or drinks will exacerbate this condition so you might have to use buffered Vit C supplements. Broccoli and Brussels sprouts contain one of the highest concentrations of natural Vit C. As mentioned, lots of water. But it needs to be good water if you're already suffering from this condition, try to avoid highly chlorinated water. Get a filter. 

If you have kidney stones it's also a sign of developing hardening of the arteries. Your Tagament can be contributing to your kidney stone problems. This drug reduces acid in the stomach. Your body needs acid to break down calcium. Your stomach acid condition is caused by improper diet and the prescription your taking is treating your symptoms and not the cause. My recommendation is for you to seek out an ND (Natureapathic Doctor) and see if they can offer you some alternative solutions. 

I wish you the best in your healing process

M


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

mtexplorer said:


> The following information is based on my personal studies of Holistic medicine and only intended to provide you with alternative information. Always follow what your doctor instructs you to do.
> 
> Need to increase your Vit C intake. The body cannot keep calcium in solution without ascorbic acid. This is why Cranberry juice alleviates the condition. If you have digestive issues the acidic fruits an or drinks will exacerbate this condition so you might have to use buffered Vit C supplements. Broccoli and Brussels sprouts contain one of the highest concentrations of natural Vit C. As mentioned, lots of water. But it needs to be good water if you're already suffering from this condition, try to avoid highly chlorinated water. Get a filter.
> 
> M


Depending on what the cause of the kidney stone, what you suggest could make it worse. Vitamin C is ascorbate and can form oxylate in the body. Cranberry juice is also an oxylate meaning if your stones are oxylate based (which most are) extra vitamin C and/or cranberry juice will make it worse.

There's a lot of information in this thread, some good and some not so much. I would suggest anyone that has kidney stones talk to a urologist and have the stones tested if possible to determine the cause. Then you can discuss the diet modifications needed to minimize stone formation.


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

Talk about timing with this thread. I am just getting over passing couple stones. I thought tearing my acl was painful. Then I thought the surgery to repair my acl was painful. 

It hit me a few days ago while relieving myself. I just about fell to the floor. After getting myself together, I took a seat on the throne. 45 minutes later there was barely anything to show for my effort. I take that back. There was a lot of sweat and a tears. 

A few more times trying and a lot more sweat and tears. Oh yeah some blood (sorry about being graphic)! I thought it was just the one. Nope. It brought a few of its friends along for the ride.

I'm finally starting to heal. I came to realize a high calcium diet, lots of soda, and the lack of water can cripple you. I'm only 40. I thought this only happened to old people. DW reminded me that I am old. Well, to a 25 year old, I would be considered old. Lol 

I thought people were exaggerating when they described the pain. I will take this as my body telling me its time to take better care of myself.


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## razorback (Jul 17, 2012)

Stones are ruff and now I know serious business. I have stones all the time (I have an extremely high pain tolerence). My MD and I have an understanding, I have a mild pain killer if I take one of these I don't have to call in but if I take the other one I have to make a trip in to see him.

So know the serious part. The week before Thanksgiving I call to get a refill on the mild pain meds. I go ahead and make an appt to go in and say HI =)

I didn't get to make that appt =( 3am I'm woke up with some pretty intense pain, I wake DH up tell him I NEED the strong stuff. I can't even wait the 30 minutes to take another 2mg of the strong stuff. 

Off to the hospital we go, at 100 miles an hour. I asked DH why so fast his response "If the pain meds do kick in I know you'll make me turn around." No chance in that happening. 

I did walk into the ER on my own while he parked the car. But I must have looked like hell cause I went staright back, the Dr didn't even ask my pain level he just put 10. LOL of course the sweat pouring down my face was probably what gave that away. I did tell him it was a stone and something was very wrong.

Off for a CT I went...

Long story short I got to have emergency surgery that night to have a stint put in the kidney, and got to experience having the litho done. Let me tell you that litho is a breeze and I highly recommend it. When I finally got to get the stint out 5 weeks later not one of the tiny stones hurt when they passed. Now a stint hurts like heck all the time, but not near as bad as a kidney being blocked =)

My new urologist told me to increase my calcium naturally, he was not a believer in pill form and drink tons of water. To add lemon to my water when I wanted something different.

Now the stone that blocked the kidney was..... 12mm =0 then there was a 9mm floating round they zapped too. I'm left with a 3mm that I might have already passed but won't know until my follow up on the 29th. If I had waited and not went to the ER I would have lost my kidney =(

On a good note I now have two Drs that know if I call them it's major. 

Oh and another reason not to let it get to the point you need a stint...

Your awake when they take it out =0


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## razorback (Jul 17, 2012)

I'm glad this thread was brought back current I'm going to check into the nettle =)


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

razorback said:


> Stones are ruff and now I know serious business. I have stones all the time (I have an extremely high pain tolerence). My MD and I have an understanding, I have a mild pain killer if I take one of these I don't have to call in but if I take the other one I have to make a trip in to see him.
> 
> So know the serious part. The week before Thanksgiving I call to get a refill on the mild pain meds. I go ahead and make an appt to go in and say HI =)
> 
> ...


Wow, I feel for you. Mine was bad, but I can't begin to imagine the pain you deal with. I am definitely going to take better care of myself. Hope you don't have to go through that again.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Wow, just read this whole thread, very interesting. It is easy to jump to the conclusion that calcium causes these stones but the evidence suggests the opposite is true. 
High intakes of DIETARY calcium (and specifically dairy) have been shown in multiple studies to reduce the risk of kidney stones substantially. There is some evidence that calcium supplements may cause kidney stones but that is rather inconclusive.
I don't know what sources people on here would consider reputable but the NIH says this

"Calcium from food does not increase the risk of calcium oxalate stones. Calcium in the digestive tract binds to oxalate from food and keeps it from entering the blood, and then the urinary tract, where it can form stones. People who form calcium oxalate stones should include 800 mg of calcium in their diet every day, not only for kidney stone prevention but also to maintain bone density. A cup of low-fat milk contains 300 mg of calcium. Other dairy products such as yogurt are also high in calcium. For people who have lactose intolerance and must avoid dairy products, orange juice fortified with calcium or dairy with reduced lactose content may be alternatives. Some studies indicate that calcium supplements increase the risk of calcium oxalate stone formation. Researchers theorize that calcium must be taken at the same time as dietary oxalate to protect against stone formation. Calcium supplements taken with meals may have the same protective effect as dietary calcium"

Be careful with grapefruit juice, it is more likely to cause it than anything else I have seen.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I had a period in my life when I produced Calcium oxalate kidney stones. My doctor said to give up drinking colas (I was drinking considerable amounts of diet Coke at the time) and to stop any calcium supplements (I was using Tums antacid tablets to fix heart burn, maybe 10 a day). I switched to Mountain Dew and stopped chewing Tums and the kidney stones stopped. It has been 35 years now and no kidney stones and just last year I had a sonogram of my kidneys and there are no signs of kidney stones.


The doctor must have given me the right advice! 

BTW the heart burn stopped when I stopped drinking Coke.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Drinking cola has been definitively shown to cause kidney stones in some people. Just eliminating that may solve many people's problems and there is no benefit to drinking that stuff anyways.
Studies of calcium supplements have been less conclusive, showing either higher, lower, or unchanged rates. This indicates that it is something other than the calcium itself, other dietary factors or binders within the pills.
High levels of dietary calcium has been shown to reduce their formation.


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## rjdpj (Dec 14, 2012)

What a coincedence , i was just about to post the same thing ! I went to the doctor today and i have them  . Btw THEY HURT but guess drinking that 2 liter of soda wasnt a good idea .


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

rjdpj said:


> What a coincedence , i was just about to post the same thing ! I went to the doctor today and i have them  . Btw THEY HURT but guess drinking that 2 liter of soda wasnt a good idea .


It typically takes kidney stones about 6 month to grow to the size where problems begin. The 2 liters of soda didn't help, but your problems began long before that.

Over the last month, I had one blasted with a laser and a stent inserted (not pleasant) and another blasted using shock wave lithotripsy. My kidneys are free from stones right now. I'm going to keep track of how long it takes before more form.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Hopefully you are keeping track for a long time


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