# SHTF Shopping Trip for the Suburban/Urban Prepper



## Padre

There are lots of different scenarios that you think about when attempting to prepare yourself for TEOTWAWKI. One of them, that I think may be overlooked is planning for a SHTF shopping trip.

There is a temptation for preppers to think that because you've prepped you are all set when it happens: BRING IT ON! :2thumb: This might be true for minor incidents of natural disaster like hurricanes or snow storms :beercheer:, but in a major long term situations where WROL conditions might exist for months or even years  no matter how well prepped you are you can still used more! Unless you are one of these people who are sitting on enough food to feed the fifth army for a year, you probably don't have enough in the way of supplies and almost everyone's supplies will have some holes in them. Especially given that you never know when you will be able to resupply, given the option, SHTF shopping is a must!

Personally, I am set for about six months for both me and my extended family of 12, but then what? Eventually farming and living off the land, if it comes to that, but in the near term SHTF shopping can help give your preps added longevity or help you fill in holes in your preps. Just remember the closer to zero hour you are, when people realize that the stuff is hitting the fan, the more your fiat (paper) money will be worth and the less panic and violence you should expect. Of course eventually violence will peak and decrease at the food stores but only in proportion to the lack of resources to fight over and/or the restoration of law and order-and by then your greenbacks may be useless!

[My big hole is toilet paper,  which I am woefully under stocked on. What would you do without TP?]

Anyway, as we all know every emergency situation is different, but given enough time one of my first responses will be SHTF shopping. As with any "self-defense" technique SHTF shopping should be thought through, tried, and practiced, so as to be effective and not get you killed.

So here is part of my plan, please feel free to comment on it and make recommendations:

In case of an emergency, which does not require an immediate bug out, all family members know to come to one of our family houses where they would be armed (if they weren't already). Once the determination is made to shelter in place and prep for an evac, we would decide if the conditions allowed for shopping runs.

If so my father and me (in shotgun, literally) would ride in the pickup, with my two brothers and their wives coming in two other cars. My mother, sisters, and the children would stay at home, perhaps with one of my brothers if security required, their job would be to get the supplies ready for transport.

I have pre-printed shopping lists divided into store types with key items to try to purchase. On each list the following SOP is written in bold: "get in, get out, get what you can, and don't get into conflict." With preps at home I figure it would be pretty silly to get injured or dead over a can of food so safety first. Of course each would be armed if it came to that, but we hope it won't, as much as we don't need that can of soup to warrant injury we also don't need/want the attention of what's left of the law. SOP is to appear to be one of the unprepared masses, the idea is to be the grey man

At all times we keep cash on hand. Personally I have a 10-3 rule. I like to keep all denominations of money on hand, ten of each bill at home and three of each bill on my person or in my car. That is to say I have ten hundreds, ten fifties, ten twenties, etc. adding up to about $1860 and then three hundreds, etc. on my person adding up to $558. I expect the US dollar to become useless (whether for a short or long term really doesn't matter) in any long term SHTF situation, as either the dollar collapses or supply scarcity simply causes price gouging and inflation. So this cash needs to be used to buy physical assets, as soon as possible after zero hour. The ten-three rule, is designed so that you have small bills to use while they are still valuable, and larger bills if hyper-inflation or price gouging occurs. The rule of thumb however is max out your credit cards first as this will be the first form of payment to become obsolete, then cash, then physical assets if needed.

Anyway, I would send each person into different stores in the same plaza with a list, credit cards and cash, a two-way, and a concealed sidearm. My father and I would stay in the truck (cocked and locked) ready to pick up the shoppers, or rather to pick up their goods. Each shopper would be given thirty minutes, before the calvary rides in to find them. I figure people will be looking to steal supplies not get into fights so once the supplies are in the back of the truck the plan is to let the shoppers proceed to their own car empty handed, and hopefully un-molested, or perhaps to go back in for more.

When a shopper is at check out they will radio "pick up" and their first initial, to which the pick-up truck will response 10-4. FRS radios are too common to assume no one will be listening so OpSec requires radio discipline. When the pick-up truck arrives he will scan the pick-up area, and the shopper will come out of the store only once the truck reports it's "in place." While the driver remains behind the wheel with the car in gear I will pull security as the shopper loads their supplies. Then the pick up driver and shotgun will GOOD while the first shopper makes their way back to the transport car. We will repeat this as many times as possible, perhaps tasking a shopper to pull extra security, until the pickup is overloaded or the condition on the street becomes too dangerous. Each trip would end with a top-up at the gas station for the vehicles and the filling of any gas cans purchase.

It's important to remember that violence will only increase after the SHTF until the stores are picked clean, so the earlier we start to shop the better.

The first priorities for shopping would be ammo, food, fuel, and drugs. Once we stock up on these items, we would re-task to focus on supplies like lumber, tools, and chemicals.

Once we get all these things home it would be up to my sisters and mothers to repackage the supplies for transport as we go on another run.

Once we finally finish SHTF shopping it will be time to begin packing food into the vehicles for bug out. Although bugging in is my preference I believe any long term situation will require a bug out for various reasons due to the location of my primary residence.

What do you think? Is SHTF shopping a bad idea? Any kinks you see in my plan?

Do you plan to do some SHTF shopping?


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## Padre

This scene from "Red Dawn" just came to mind:


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## TheAnt

Interesting and well thought out. Im not sure I would want to risk shopping in almost any circumstance unless you could see something coming that most folks didnt. Once the actual event happened and other folks start rushing the stores I would want to already be done doing any shopping.

Honestly my food storage is not enough to last my family over probably 1-2mo but its primary purpose at this point is to avoid the mad rush to the stores or the soup lines waiting for gov't handouts. In my thinking the first few weeks/months will be the most dangerous. I want to avoid any conflict and hole up until its safer to travel/shop. 

Ideally I will be able to move before SHTF and have a more extensive storage of goods as well as mutual support from family and friends. That is unlikely where I am currently.

All in all it was an interesting read and would be neat to be a fly on the wall watching this operation going down if/when you ever put your plans into action.


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## gypsysue

It would depend on what TSHTF situatin is. If it's something where we'd have time to take lists and we have the means to pay (cash) and we wouldn't have to fight mobs, then yes, we'd take all the cash we had and go spend it all. It would be nice to have that kind of warning, but I don't expect it.

If it's a somewhat-mobbed situation I'd be buying up the things people weren't grabbing but that could be traded later (baby bottles and baby supplies, matches, etc.).

If it's a mob-type situation I'm not venturing out.


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## tac803

One of the most memorable scenes I can recall seeing of the aftermath of hurricaine Katrina on the TV was looters carrying large screen TV sets through the flood waters. Anyone going shopping in the initial phases of whatever rears it's head may be dealing with people who have a warped sense of priorities and may not be thinking straight. Caution should be strongly advised.


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## AlabamaGal

If I can swoop in and top off the gas tank I will. If I see a major event about to happen and no one is paying attention, I will grab what I can. But if there's a shopping frenzy, I will do without. The risks are simply too high. It doesn't take much to set off a shopping frenzy here. I recall one set of storms coming in and without thinking I stopped in Wally World because I wanted to make tamales and it was the only place I could get the corn husks. Not only were the shelves cleared of bread and milk, but I cracked up when I saw the shelves were clear of tortillas and masa flour.


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## TheAnt

AlabamaGal said:


> If I can swoop in and top off the gas tank I will. If I see a major event about to happen and no one is paying attention, I will grab what I can. But if there's a shopping frenzy, I will do without. The risks are simply too high. It doesn't take much to set off a shopping frenzy here. I recall one set of storms coming in and without thinking I stopped in Wally World because I wanted to make tamales and it was the only place I could get the corn husks. Not only were the shelves cleared of bread and milk, but I cracked up when I saw the shelves were clear of tortillas and masa flour.


Whites arent the only ones that panic... hispanics do too!


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## backlash

If you wait until TSHTF to go shopping you are going to be in real trouble fast.
Unless you somehow know before every other person in the area you will be just another disappointed victim. 
There was a post on here yesterday with a link to a blog about surviving after TSHTF.
Well written by a guy that has actually lived through it in Yugoslavia. 
I could not stop reading his posts.
Here is a link. Worth the time to read.
My thanks to the OP.

http://shtfschool.com/


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## Jezcruzen

I've been watching GBTV in the evening. (Well, I listen to it mostly since I'm usually cooking in the next room)

This week has been especially informative. Beck's guests were experts in their particular fields, and the prediction of an EMP was discussed. The general thought was that the missile tests Iran has been conducting, and reported as "failures" by the media since the missiles all detonated at high altitudes in flight, were not really failures at all. Iran only wants the capability to launch a sea-born missile into the upper atmosphere over the US and explode a nuke. We all know what the results of that could be.

I contend that what we are most likely to encounter is a totalitarian police state. But, if God has truly removed His protective hand and allows Iran to succeed in initiating an EMP, then we must consider the reality of life without motorized transport and electricity. Not a pleasant thought anyhow you look at it!

Padre, you plan has merit. It reminds me of a book I recently finished regarding a community in Texas and how they organized to cope after an EMP.


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## geoffreys7

I have three such lists, one I carry with me at all times, as I'm a sales rep that travels into New York city by train, I have one for a SHTF there since 9-11. I have one I keep in my car as a traveling list, and another in the car and at home similar to yours. If something goes down I can always try to be the first at the local supermarket and top off my supplies. 

The Boy Scout motto "Be Prepared!"


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## horseman1946

:congrat:  Good idea to have a plan, but remember what George Patton said about a plan lasting until the first shot is fired.

Also, I would recommend reading "One Second After" by Robert Forstchen, a book about an EMP strike. It is a brutal book, has some holes in it about what would be available after a strike, but will give you a good idea of how people/sheeple/zombies will react in a disaster where life is changed forever. Of the thousands of books I have read in my life, this one had a lasting effect (wake-up call) on me and on my family members. I know the book is fiction, but so is most of what we hear from the media, government, etc. 

Best plan is to prep, if you can make a final run WTSHTF, great, but be ready to go with what you have on hand.

I am so happy to live in the mountains of southwest Virginia, and not somewhere like the Richmond suburbs, I, and my family, feel blessed in that respect.

BTW, I accepted delivery today of my brand new Highpoint 9mm carbine, I feel blessed by that too.


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## Padre

horseman1946 said:


> :congrat: Good idea to have a plan, but remember what George Patton said about a plan lasting until the first shot is fired...
> 
> BTW, I accepted delivery today of my brand new Highpoint 9mm carbine, I feel blessed by that too.


I like to think through situations. I agree that a frenzy is a dangerous time, but it may also be the last opportunity to pad the ladder. While it definitely will be less violent at the stores weeks latter I fear there may not be anything left to buy and that my money would be no go to buy it.

Patton's words are well spoken. You always need to be able to adapt to changing realities. My preps allow me to abort any SHTF shopping trip with little fear of my family starving in the near term, but I still think taking a chance for some last minute shopping, particularly with a plan in place, is worth the risks.

Two non food items high on my priority lists are propane and gas. I keep some of both on hand but not nearly enough. I know there will be a run on Gas, but I am hoping that most folks will forget the propane as it's "only for picnics and BBQs." [And my generator, heater, and perhaps one day my car]. Also most people will forget about drugs, so I could probably get as many fresh drugs as I need with little difficulty at this time. I also think in the initial panic most people will forget ammo (at least in my neck of the woods). I have a lot in storage but can you ever have too much? My biggest dilemma with the plan is food, firstly because I have plenty of food at home, and secondly because this will be the most dangerous type of item to be acquiring.

BTW--I was given a Hi-Point a couple of months ago, its a nice little gun, definitely a blessing in a pinch.:beercheer:


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## Domeguy

Jezcruzen said:


> Padre, you plan has merit. It reminds me of a book I recently finished regarding a community in Texas and how they organized to cope after an EMP.


What's the name of this book?


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## Magus

Padre said:


> There are lots of different scenarios that you think about when attempting to prepare yourself for TEOTWAWKI. One of them, that I think may be overlooked is planning for a SHTF shopping trip.
> 
> There is a temptation for preppers to think that because you've prepped you are all set when it happens: BRING IT ON! :2thumb: This might be true for minor incidents of natural disaster like hurricanes or snow storms :beercheer:, but in a major long term situations where WROL conditions might exist for months or even years  no matter how well prepped you are you can still used more! Unless you are one of these people who are sitting on enough food to feed the fifth army for a year, you probably don't have enough in the way of supplies and almost everyone's supplies will have some holes in them. Especially given that you never know when you will be able to resupply, given the option, SHTF shopping is a must!
> 
> Personally, I am set for about six months for both me and my extended family of 12, but then what? Eventually farming and living off the land, if it comes to that, but in the near term SHTF shopping can help give your preps added longevity or help you fill in holes in your preps. Just remember the closer to zero hour you are, when people realize that the stuff is hitting the fan, the more your fiat (paper) money will be worth and the less panic and violence you should expect. Of course eventually violence will peak and decrease at the food stores but only in proportion to the lack of resources to fight over and/or the restoration of law and order-and by then your greenbacks may be useless!
> 
> [My big hole is toilet paper,  which I am woefully under stocked on. What would you do without TP?]
> 
> Anyway, as we all know every emergency situation is different, but given enough time one of my first responses will be SHTF shopping. As with any "self-defense" technique SHTF shopping should be thought through, tried, and practiced, so as to be effective and not get you killed.
> 
> So here is part of my plan, please feel free to comment on it and make recommendations:
> 
> In case of an emergency, which does not require an immediate bug out, all family members know to come to one of our family houses where they would be armed (if they weren't already). Once the determination is made to shelter in place and prep for an evac, we would decide if the conditions allowed for shopping runs.
> 
> If so my father and me (in shotgun, literally) would ride in the pickup, with my two brothers and their wives coming in two other cars. My mother, sisters, and the children would stay at home, perhaps with one of my brothers if security required, their job would be to get the supplies ready for transport.
> 
> I have pre-printed shopping lists divided into store types with key items to try to purchase. On each list the following SOP is written in bold: "get in, get out, get what you can, and don't get into conflict." With preps at home I figure it would be pretty silly to get injured or dead over a can of food so safety first. Of course each would be armed if it came to that, but we hope it won't, as much as we don't need that can of soup to warrant injury we also don't need/want the attention of what's left of the law. SOP is to appear to be one of the unprepared masses, the idea is to be the grey man
> 
> At all times we keep cash on hand. Personally I have a 10-3 rule. I like to keep all denominations of money on hand, ten of each bill at home and three of each bill on my person or in my car. That is to say I have ten hundreds, ten fifties, ten twenties, etc. adding up to about $1860 and then three hundreds, etc. on my person adding up to $558. I expect the US dollar to become useless (whether for a short or long term really doesn't matter) in any long term SHTF situation, as either the dollar collapses or supply scarcity simply causes price gouging and inflation. So this cash needs to be used to buy physical assets, as soon as possible after zero hour. The ten-three rule, is designed so that you have small bills to use while they are still valuable, and larger bills if hyper-inflation or price gouging occurs. The rule of thumb however is max out your credit cards first as this will be the first form of payment to become obsolete, then cash, then physical assets if needed.
> 
> Anyway, I would send each person into different stores in the same plaza with a list, credit cards and cash, a two-way, and a concealed sidearm. My father and I would stay in the truck (cocked and locked) ready to pick up the shoppers, or rather to pick up their goods. Each shopper would be given thirty minutes, before the calvary rides in to find them. I figure people will be looking to steal supplies not get into fights so once the supplies are in the back of the truck the plan is to let the shoppers proceed to their own car empty handed, and hopefully un-molested, or perhaps to go back in for more.
> 
> When a shopper is at check out they will radio "pick up" and their first initial, to which the pick-up truck will response 10-4. FRS radios are too common to assume no one will be listening so OpSec requires radio discipline. When the pick-up truck arrives he will scan the pick-up area, and the shopper will come out of the store only once the truck reports it's "in place." While the driver remains behind the wheel with the car in gear I will pull security as the shopper loads their supplies. Then the pick up driver and shotgun will GOOD while the first shopper makes their way back to the transport car. We will repeat this as many times as possible, perhaps tasking a shopper to pull extra security, until the pickup is overloaded or the condition on the street becomes too dangerous. Each trip would end with a top-up at the gas station for the vehicles and the filling of any gas cans purchase.
> 
> It's important to remember that violence will only increase after the SHTF until the stores are picked clean, so the earlier we start to shop the better.
> 
> The first priorities for shopping would be ammo, food, fuel, and drugs. Once we stock up on these items, we would re-task to focus on supplies like lumber, tools, and chemicals.
> 
> Once we get all these things home it would be up to my sisters and mothers to repackage the supplies for transport as we go on another run.
> 
> Once we finally finish SHTF shopping it will be time to begin packing food into the vehicles for bug out. Although bugging in is my preference I believe any long term situation will require a bug out for various reasons due to the location of my primary residence.
> 
> What do you think? Is SHTF shopping a bad idea? Any kinks you see in my plan?
> 
> Do you plan to do some SHTF shopping?


Nice post,and hell yeah!:beercheer:


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## horseman1946

I keep gasoline in a 55 gal drum for use in my farm tractor, I use propane in my home so I have a 100 gallon tank and a 500 gallon tank. I also keep all of them topped off.

Something that has been on my mind lately, and I don't know if this is the thread to ask the question, but here goes.

Within a 50 mile radius of my home there are at least 5 prisons, 3 regional jails, and I don't have any idea how many local jails. That is on the Virginia side, Tennessee is less than 20 miles away and I know nothing about what is there in the way of jails and prisons.

My question is this, does anyone have any idea where the convicts are going to go WTSHTF? 

I know what I would do, I would turn then loose, unarmed, to return to their families, or to return to the rock they were living under, and let nature take its course.

I am sure that somewhere in the bowels of government there is a plan for this situation, but does anyone know what the plan consists of?

I sure hope I get some feedback on this.


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## Tweto

horseman1946 said:


> I keep gasoline in a 55 gal drum for use in my farm tractor, I use propane in my home so I have a 100 gallon tank and a 500 gallon tank. I also keep all of them topped off.
> 
> Something that has been on my mind lately, and I don't know if this is the thread to ask the question, but here goes.
> 
> Within a 50 mile radius of my home there are at least 5 prisons, 3 regional jails, and I don't have any idea how many local jails. That is on the Virginia side, Tennessee is less than 20 miles away and I know nothing about what is there in the way of jails and prisons.
> 
> My question is this, does anyone have any idea where the convicts are going to go WTSHTF?
> I know what I would do, I would turn then loose, unarmed, to return to their families, or to return to the rock they were living under, and let nature take its course.
> 
> I am sure that somewhere in the bowels of government there is a plan for this situation, but does anyone know what the plan consists of?
> 
> I sure hope I get some feedback on this.


I don't know of any plans to deal with convicts, but common sense would suggest that they would all be released onto the street,. Even now convicts are released early do to over crowding.


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## Padre

horseman1946 said:


> I keep gasoline in a 55 gal drum for use in my farm tractor, I use propane in my home so I have a 100 gallon tank and a 500 gallon tank. I also keep all of them topped off.


Gas is so unstable, I just can't see storing much of it. I want enough to get a small fleet of gas vehicles to my retreat but after that I am consigned to most of those vehicles being out of commission until gas is available again. Everyone talks about diesel as a survival fuel but personally I think LP is the way to go. I have a couple of hundred gallons of LP and would like to increase that 5 fold. I would also like to look at installing a LP conversion in my Jeep's Engine so I could run LP or LNG in my truck, which stores for.... decades.

As far a prisons, if you live near one, while it might be ok to let the minor felons go, I would either lock the serious criminals away and throw away the key or facilitate the expedition of their life sentences.


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## Clarice

DH and I have our last minute list and carry enough cash on our person to purchase everything on the list. The plan is to drop what we are doing, even if we are at work, top off the gas tanks, hit the stores. DH is to go to the building supply first, then the drug store, I'm to go to the grocery then the dollar stores. But you know what is said about the best laid plans.


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## gypsysue

Do you really think they would just turn all the prisoners out?  That's a scary thought, since there's some truly scary people in those places. I realize a lot of people locked up aren't really violent, but what about the hard cases? Yikes! :gaah:

I'm not trying to derail this thread from it's exellent beginning. Maybe we need a separate thread for the question about prisons? :scratch:


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## BillM

*No matter*

No matter how well you think you have planned, if there is a sudden rioting in the streets , there will be somthing you forgot or will suddenly think you have to have.

Just make do with what you already have on hand.

The risk of getting hurt or killed in the ensueing madness is not worth the risk !


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## UncleJoe

Agreed, unless you see something you feel is the last straw and the sheeple are just mesmerized with that "deer in the headlights look. 
Last year? during the Wall Street "flash crash" I happened to be at home watching it. The DOW dropped something like 800 points in 20 minutes. I'm thinking;"is this it?" I went to the safe and grabbed a few hundred in cash and was getting ready to go to the store. I checked the TV one last time before I left and it was on it's way back up so I waited a couple more minutes. When it was back up to -500 I decided this wasn't "it." 

I would never try to do any last minute shopping if everyone was aware of a serious problem.


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## Clarice

Uncle Joe, I do believe it will take a while for the sheeple to believe what is happening. They will deny it to the end thinking the ones in charge will come fix everything. Giving some of us time to get last minute items.


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## Fiona

I agree with Clarice. People just don't want to believe their world as they know it will end, so they will try to the best of their ability to "Keep Calm and Carry On" in spite of whatever reality is shoving down their throats. There will still be honest folk who want to go to the shops, pay for their purchases and run home to their bungalows. Just be in front of them in line!


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## UncleJoe

Clarice said:


> Uncle Joe, *I do believe it will take a while for the sheeple to believe what is happening.* They will deny it to the end thinking the ones in charge will come fix everything. Giving some of us time to get last minute items.


For the most part I think that's true. But in the last few months it seems everyone I talk to is paying closer attention to what's going on around them. They may not quite understand why, but it appears people are a little more aware that something is wrong. If I were to try a last minute shopping trip and found the store already overflowing, I would drive on by.


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## DJgang

When the tornado hit here this past April, we were told that it could be five to seven days before power came back on.

I had a full tank of gas, husband got his mother, brought her to our store location and I drove to pick her up there, as our place had been hit by the tornado and my husband was playing security guard all night long.

You should have seen people!!!!

I will make no plans to even grace the doors of a store when the SHTF. No way, no how.

I will have to survive with what I got.


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## FrankW

Good write-up.
Obviously you been thinking about things.

A couple of caveats:

a) in truly the SHTF there risk inherent to go shopping at all beofre bugging out may exceed the benefit unless you know you have some significant deficiency that would could only adress via maxing out CC's when SHTF.
Otehrwise the risk would be hard to justify.. Especially isnce you seem to have a BOL and when even araction of the general public realizes SHTF you can expect just about all roads to have traffic jams lasting days...

If you have a BOL and have IDed SHTF then even 20 minutes spent in town can be a absolutely lethal delay.
Only recommended for the most critical supplies that cant be gotten any other way.

b) this might be workable if you have a head start when recognizing a SHTF situation but very few PPL do.
by the time the mainstream realizes something is going on you will be competing with a lot of folks. 
Especially since you are already spending time to bring your family together.
Consider meeting at your BOL instead. 

time rally is of the essence.


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## Padre

UncleJoe said:


> I would never try to do any last minute shopping if everyone was aware of a serious problem.


I was working near the White House on 9-11 and in a terrorist situation like that the reaction was instant, I could not wait to get out of DC and home, and ready to bug out. Having worked as event staff for a number of large events, including one that had 5mil plus, I realize how dangerous a crowd can be and I don't want to get stuck away from home when the herd comes through in full force. Like terrorism winter storms or hurricanes in New England tend to bring out crowds, although usually without the panic. Last summer, however, we had a water main break and we were near riot conditions, but here is the thing, I don't think people panic these days until the TV tells them to panic.

This is why in case of economic collapse, where there is not a violent event and the media will at first down play the event, it's my feeling that you may have 48 up to 76 hours before panic sets in. The same would be true for an EMP type event, I think. People have experienced black outs, most will not realize that this is not your usual black out, even when their cars fail to start, and without the talking heads to tell them what to think, I feel the masses would sit on their thumbs for a few days before things start to get bad.

That is my shopping window as well as my bug out window. After 24 hours I wouldn't go near a shopping center and after 72 I don't think I would venture out if I didn't have to. In either of these worst case scenarios hopefully I would be stocked up and moved out with 72 hours.

As I have said, I have preps and am continuing to work to add to them, BUT there is always stuff that we would love to have if we knew that the S was hitting the fan. I just took delivery on another 3 months of food, but stored food will only last so long and so why not get a little extra, IF you can. I mean personally I think dollars are too rough to use as TP so why not trade your greenbacks for TP?

The only thing I really NEED, in case of EMP, would be a working vehicle, as I believe I would need to bug out in this situation and have 4 hours by car to travel to my retreat.


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## PamsPride

If you already have the money on hand and a list why not just get that stuff NOW so you do not have to go get when TSHTF? 

As far as TP why not family cloth? Would you consider stocking some flannel sheets from Goodwill or something that could be cut into squares and used when they are needed? Even if you do not use them now you would have them for emergencies.


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## Padre

PamsPride said:


> If you already have the money on hand and a list why not just get that stuff NOW so you do not have to go get when TSHTF?


Easy, there are some things, like TP, that I can't store more of without it adversely effecting my life. If I filled the guest room with TP I risk being classified a hoarder, and sent to a funny farm.... :2thumb:

Also, I prep about $500 a month, that is not including my investments into metals and other things. I keep about $1000 in my bank accounts at all times to cover electronic transactions and about $2500 in cash for emergencies. That is all I keep liquid (i.e. in cash), because I have a $20k credit line and because I really do believe that greenbacks are a loosing investment. My money on hand is emergency money, for if and when I have an emergency. If I spend it and a different kind of emergency comes up, and my credit is no good for some reason, then I am SOL.

Like I said I don't need to go shopping, which I think puts me at a strategic advantage, but if the SHTF and it's TEOTWAWKI, I can't imagine WHY I would keep hold of my emergency stash if it was going to be useless tomorrow or a week from now.

I worked hard for my money and although green backs are a loosing investment, for the moment they still have SOME purchasing power, why flush that down the drain?

I AM TALKING PARADIGM SHIFT HERE FOLKS, not just a bad winter storm or tornado. Although I don't want to risk my life, small risks to gain even a month of extra food, water, or gas, and to get some value out of my dollars before they are worthless seems to make sense to me--thats if I can do it safely. That's where a group comes in handy.


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## Padre

Hindsights 20-20 imagine the things you would kill for after going without for 3, 5, 10 years. I bet if things haven't "gotten better" after 10 years (which is what I think most people assume will happen) you would feel pretty silly with $20k in credit, $1k in electronic dollars, and $2k in cash and no bullets, bandages, or canned cheese (YUM). Not to mention TP!

We need liquidity in this world, but if the world changes into a less organize world we will need supplies, my point is if you see the paradigm shift from a currency culture to a real goods economy use the currency while you can...

Its not even just food, think about supplies that would have inherent value in a more primitive world, no one will be going to the hard ware store for farming supplies on day 1, why not take the small risk, get rid of cash and get into real usable, tradeable, wealth?


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## OHprepper

it seems every year i turn on the tv and see another person beating another person senseless for a toy at christmas. and that isnt a survival situation, at most that is a disappointment situation. i don't think i would leave during a SHTF scenario. i would just sit on my preps and wait. maybe a month or two, before venturing out.


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## FrankW

I agree. 
That's the whole point of having a plan, giving yourself the ability to stay put for an extended time.

Sit tight, if the situation stabilizes , great.. if it doesn't there will be some dangerous months ahead until some months in the future so many PPL are dead that it is safe to come out...as the survivors have established a sustainable existence


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## mojo4

I agree on a last shopping trip. The masses will be trying to play catch-up and I will be getting the odds and ends I need. Besides, its time to use the last of the cash!! If you wait for weeks or even months then don't bother going at all because by that time with no restocking all that will be left is worthless crap. Nope, one last shopping run is in order!


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## sailaway

AlabamaGal said:


> If I can swoop in and top off the gas tank I will. If I see a major event about to happen and no one is paying attention, I will grab what I can. But if there's a shopping frenzy, I will do without. The risks are simply too high. It doesn't take much to set off a shopping frenzy here. I recall one set of storms coming in and without thinking I stopped in Wally World because I wanted to make tamales and it was the only place I could get the corn husks. Not only were the shelves cleared of bread and milk, but I cracked up when I saw the shelves were clear of tortillas and masa flour.


I'm with Alabama Gal on this one, I would stay away. Right now though I have 10-5gal. gas cans filled and rotate them on the car so I don't need to deal with Gas.

I was living in Miami when Hurricane Andrew hit and have been prepping ever since, it's a way of life now. One thing that I noticed back then was people on food stamps were getting ketsup and stuff like that.:scratch


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## fedorthedog

I have a good deal of preps but I know that there will be a need for more. I have a written op order and shopping list for the last minute as it hits the fan shopping. It includes large trucks and men with guns. (Horses and wagons if emp) The world will not be a nice place and I dont intend to play nice.


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## Davarm

I guess that I must be the exception to the rule. If "the balloon went up" tonight and in the morning when I woke up all hell was breaking loose.....I have what we need to make a go of it for a year at least before I started even thinking of resupply. If I knew it was going to be longer term, we could streach it out for years possibly without much suffering.

I dont have one of those $450,000 bunkers or a duplex with one side of it packed with MRE's. I have not been at this for decades either, just sepnding a little extra each trip to the grocery store, tending a large(now about 3/4 acre) garden and learning to do things the "Old Fashioned Way". 

I may call my buddy "Apu"(Refere to the Simpsons) down at the local store to see if he had any gas left and fill up the cars but thats really about it.

I thought hard about making this post, didn't want to appear to have a "Mightier than Thou" attitude or appear to be putting anyone down for their efforts. That is absolutely the last thing I want to do. Who knows, I may find that MY plans and preparations are extremely lacking, I hope not but I like to think that my planning and preparations have not been wasted.


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## MsSage

The situation I am in right now I will have to make a last run. I pray in 2 years....yeah I know LOL, I will where I will just go and collect my eggs and milk the cow and fix breakfast and talk about well it really happened. I think everyone has to decide what is best for them and their situation. There is no right or wrong answer.
Darvarm I think you said it well and did not come across "better than" We all are striving to be where your at.


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## SouthernComfort

I will not leave unless its stealth movement after dark and that would only be considered under extreme emergency. Make do with what you have stocked and be proud. That last minute bread and milk thing should already be stored in powder form. Last thing you want is to leave your years of prepping behind for 2 or 3 things. There's a better than not chance you might not make it back home. If you think there are a few last minute things, go get them now. For the first week, no fires, no lights, no movement at your location. Get by with basics from your kits and keep watch 24/7.


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## Padre

One thing I would encourage people think about is the stuff that will not be in high demand. Fine, its reasonable not to want to go to a grocery store or gas station, but if there is a panic there are all sorts of stores with all sorts of useful things, or even just barter items, that most likely won't have ANYONE at them? 

A few ideas: an Army Navy store, liquor store, hard ware store, green house, pharmacy, auto parts store, radio shack, etc.

My philosophy is never say never, each SHTF in history has occurred with its own circumstances and being prepared means being ready for everything.


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## Diego2112

I will be hitting up the local liquor store, taking as much as ol' 9 Finger Nate'll let me carry for what I've got. It's walking distance to my house, what's more. Literally a block away East, and TWO blocks away south, are two separate pharmacies. One's a big chain store, one's a mom-and-pop deal. They both have some grocery goods in 'em. There's a hardware store on the same block as the mom-and-pop, so that's the direction I'm headed. A block NORTH of the Hardware store is the Police Station. Right next to the liquor store is the Fire Department. Across the street from my house are two nursing homes, side by side. A block North of my house is an elementary school. There are plans in place to get what I can day-of, IF AND ONLY IF I am able. 

The main thing I'm interested in is having AT LEAST 20 gallons of liquor.  Good for barter.

And NOTHING ELSE.


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## Padre

mojo4 said:


> I agree on a last shopping trip. The masses will be trying to play catch-up and I will be getting the odds and ends I need. Besides, its time to use the last of the cash!! If you wait for weeks or even months then don't bother going at all because by that time with no restocking all that will be left is worthless crap. Nope, one last shopping run is in order!


My point exactly! Not to mention that even if they can restock your money might very well be worthless.


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## The_Blob

Padre said:


> My point exactly! Not to mention that even if they can restock your money might very well be worthless.


if they can restock it's not really much of a 'shtf/collapse' is it?


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## Ration-AL

haha, funny, I read this thread as in your already at the store shopping 
when all of the sudden the clerk comes over the intercom and says *DING* "attention shoppers THE S*** has Hit The Fan, all things in the store are now on sale for the low-low price of free provided you can carry it, thank you and thank you for shopping with S-mart "*DING* then mayhem ensues...


if that's not the case, no way in hell i'm going anywhere near any goods stores for the first few weeks, you might have a 8-12, maybe 24 hour period before things get really crazy, but we have seen in the past it doesn't take long for people to decide to start the riots when people don't think help is coming. i really think that depends on the type of event to judge people reaction/riot times lol, you probably have more time in say a natural distaste as opposed to a nuke strike, i see in the highly unlikely event of a nuke people going from 0-riot in the first 8 minutes before the nuke even touches down, lol

but again, not risking it, that's why we are here as "preppers" is so we don't need to go into the cut throat crowds and duke it out for supplies, my main concern is protecting what i already got, risking my life for another backpack of food or goods just isn't worth it, sure maybe a few months down the line i would risk venturing out for some supplies and maybe much sooner if required, but from reading about people who lived through real SHTF cases, it's best to not go out for anything for the first few weeks or months if can be helped as that's when things are at their worst and still trying to find an equilibrium.



that said, if i was shopping and i got the guy on the intercoms telling me SHTF , i'd grab a shopping cart dive over the meds counter and just start sweeping the antibiotic and opiate shelves into the cart and clear out the hygine and first aid section on my way out, all and all spend about 3 mins in the store, quick arm out stretched just sweeping it all into the cart/bag/whatever could hold more then my arms and GTFO of there and back to my house asap. 

In my mind that stuff is not replenish-able and once it's gone it's gone, people will have food for trade as there are lots of ways to acquire food and lots of things you can eat, meds and hygiene supplies though once gone stay gone, i see this stuff being high value in trade and in need/demand.

that's my super market sweep plan, lol... i like this game


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## Ezmerelda

Well, here's my story. Within one hour of the first plane striking the first tower, I withdrew all the unallocated cash from the bank, and went to the grocery store closest to my house and spent it all on canned and dry goods and bottled water. 

I was amazed that there wasn't another soul in the store and the cashiers did not seem to know what had happened. I didn't have the heart to tell them.

(Since I had no idea, I didn't even buy a bottle of aspirin, but I've learned better since then.)

Then, I picked up my kids from school, raised the flag in front of my house and hunkered down, praying that they'd let my husband come home soon (base was on lockdown).

When my husband did return, he told me that the grocery store parking lot was still mostly empty. :dunno:

So, I wonder, if folks didn't react to the towers' destruction, even knowing that it was deliberate, what will it take to send them to the store? I'm guessing that the earlier poster is right - they won't panic until the TV tells them to.


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## lazydaisy67

Its a good thread. Don't know if anybody ever feels as if they have enough. I go through my list in my head all the time..."oh I forgot to get those", or "shoot, I need another box of that". It never ends. I think going to the store early on would be risky at best and waiting just that 5 minutes too long could be deadly. Not sure if we'd risk it or not. 
I wish I could remember the exact conversation but in a nutshell, my BROTHER said "I don't need to put anything away, I've got guns...I'll just take want I need from everybody else." I got a sick feeling in my stomach and after thinking about it for a while I knew he probably isn't in the minority. I guess it's a good thing I live 3 hrs away from my family


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## pixieduster

Ezmerelda: agree that most won't panic till the tv says so.
History is in my parts is that even when the tv told them to panic/do something, a lot didn't. They sat and planned parties(hurricane parties). Then a big one hit. More left than normal but it was a follow the leader mentallity. Now I have no idea how many people learned from it and became preppers, but sure its a few. In general people like routine and familiarity. Well me too, so I prep, I keep my ears open, mouth shut, and learn learn learn. Being an optomist doesn't mean I'm dumb. I just laugh out loud more. : ) ...so I'm staying away from the stores, if I'm there then I leave quickly and put plan A into action, adjust as I go. My kids are everything and I will DO.


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## suzysurvivor

Ezmerelda said:


> Well, here's my story. Within one hour of the first plane striking the first tower, I withdrew all the unallocated cash from the bank, and went to the grocery store closest to my house and spent it all on canned and dry goods and bottled water.
> 
> When my husband did return, he told me that the grocery store parking lot was still mostly empty. :dunno:
> 
> So, I wonder, if folks didn't react to the towers' destruction, even knowing that it was deliberate, what will it take to send them to the store? I'm guessing that the earlier poster is right - they won't panic until the TV tells them to.


i think we were all so stunned that we had no real thoughts atm. However, if the SHTF, it will involve more than a 3 day no fly.

I guess I'm slow but I don't understand that if you have a shopping list NOW, why don't you procure those items now? I mean you can go buy fresh milk and eggs but those will run out soon no matter how much you buy. That's why i have powdered milk and eggs in my storage.

The only thing I plan to 'worry about' in SHTF is getting my car full of gas. DH refuses to store gasoline so I try to always keep my tank half full--that's enough to get us to a BOL. THe rest of the 'Christmas shopping' you talk about is NOT on my agenda.


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## 101airborne

I agree with Ant and gypsie here. After the SHTF will be IMO the worse time to go shopping. Everybody will be doing the same thing. Unless you have a huge amount of emergency cash on hand you'll likly be out of luck. Even then there may not be much to buy. IMHO you need to stock now and rotate it on a regular basis. We are not equipped to feed an army nor do we plan to, but we do have a couple years worth if rationed stores, several veggie plants, fruit trees and bushes/ plants to add to our supplies, as well as several wooded areas nearby to forage edible/ medicinal plants from and as Hank jr. saye " I've got a shotgun, a rifle, and a 4 wheel drive"


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## chris88idaho

I was in college in 1998-99 when a hurricane was projected to hit the city (it didnt) by the time the governer issued an evacuation order, people had pretty much went bonkers. Gas stations were charging $12 for a gallon of gas w/huge line ups, most water was wiped out, people charging for rides out of town. Interstate was a parking lot, everyone ran out of gas. I was lucky to have a full tank of gas and the brains to hit the back roads. And all that without the storm even hitting. Only people left behind were the homeless, poor, and stupid. Keep in mind, if something stops interstate trucking, everything will be gone in 2 days. Look at how people have fist fights over cabbage patch dolls at christmass. How hard will they fight for the last bottle of water? Prep now.


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## chris88idaho

On the subject of prisons, I work for one years ago (hated every second of it). There was a bad storm/ tornado knocked all the trees down. I rode my 4 wheeler to work. I was the only one who bothered to show up. Guards for the most part are under paid and under appreciated. I imagine most wouldn't show up for their shift, ones on duty would wander off home eventually. The bars and razor wire just slows inmates down, without an armed guard they'd be on the street in no time


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## Padre

The_Blob said:


> if they can restock it's not really much of a 'shtf/collapse' is it?


Ah, here is a key element of disagreement... granted some SHTF are acute and immediate, others however can be slow and gradual, as the feces travel in the direction of the fan in slow motion.

There is a supply chain, so logically if the government doesn't COMPLETELY loose it, i.e. what is frequently referred to as WROL, items in the pipeline could allow a few, at least partial, restocks as the government tries to keep people calm and maintain at least the appearance of being in control of the situation.

This scenario more than any other is the BEST CASE for a SHTF shopping trip.


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## Padre

suzysurvivor said:


> i think we were all so stunned that we had no real thoughts atm. However, if the SHTF, it will involve more than a 3 day no fly.
> 
> I guess I'm slow but I don't understand that if you have a shopping list NOW, why don't you procure those items now? I mean you can go buy fresh milk and eggs but those will run out soon no matter how much you buy. That's why i have powdered milk and eggs in my storage.
> 
> The only thing I plan to 'worry about' in SHTF is getting my car full of gas. DH refuses to store gasoline so I try to always keep my tank half full--that's enough to get us to a BOL. THe rest of the 'Christmas shopping' you talk about is NOT on my agenda.


This stunned time, which I have observed having lived in WDC during 9-11, when we were a target, is what I am counting on, an why I believe it MIGHT, and I stress MIGHT, depending on the situation be a good idea.

I have shelves and shelves of prep in multiple locations, I am guessing you do too. Does that mean I don't add to my preps regularly? NO. At least the $1000 missing from my bank account last month doesn't think so. BUT STILL, I do keep a few $k set aside for an emergency that $ might be useful to fix.

All I am suggesting is that if the SHTF then you spend down those reserves
to be just a little bit more prepared for a worst case senario and a lot poorer in greenbacks, which might be worthless tomorrow.

Worst case senario: if your smart and prepared is that either you are wrong and you are stuck a couple $K poorer and much richer in supplies, OR you get to the store, see a riot, and bug out empty handed. Its unlikely you will be killed if you try to leave empty handed, and if you have some precautions and preparations like the ones I have suggested I think that most of us in the first 12 hours could get away with lots of useful stuff that most people wouldn't even be thinking of in a SHTF.

I mean, just as an example, how many pictures have you seen pictures of "runs" on liquor stores even though booze has great medicinal, tactical, and barter value? My local Army/Navy store has buckets of long term storage food, along with lots of other useful stuff, but I doubt anyone thinks of it before going out in a panic to by bread, milk, and eggs before a major snow storm. One more example, while hardware stores might have a run before a tornado or hurricane, how many people are going to have the foresight on day one to stop by home depot or lowes for so many useful supplies?


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