# Is Martial Law close



## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

I found this article

'Occupy Wall Street' Protesters Chant 'Follow Those Kids!' As Small Children Try To Go To School On Wall Street « CBS New York

This is just my thought but i truely believe that they are trying to provoke a confrontation and have it go violent. that would give the group at the Occupy the White house protest the reason they want/need to declare Martial law. This would allow them the stay for the "duration". IMO this is why they are backing the protest, and the unions are picking up the tab for the protest


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I don't see it leading to martial law at all. The protestors are paid and supplied by unions and people friendly to the Obama administration. As long as they were viewed favorably by the public there were going to be used by Obama to gain public support. Now that the public has seen what kind of people they are there's pressure by those same groups to force them out.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I agree with lefty, even though the OWS groups are loosing favor with the public, they are expressing more willingness to get violent. President BOB(Berac OBama) has stated in the past, "never let a good crisis go to waste". I believe that that bunch, OWS, will play a significant role in some engineered crisis in the near future, be it martial law or something else.

Keep on prepping and keep your eyes open.


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## Skeeter (Nov 7, 2009)

Davarm said:


> I agree with lefty, even though the OWS groups are loosing favor with the public, they are expressing more willingness to get violent. President BOB(Berac OBama) has stated in the past, "never let a good crisis go to waste". I believe that that bunch, OWS, will play a significant role in some engineered crisis in the near future, be it martial law or something else.
> 
> Keep on prepping and keep your eyes open.


Oh come on, It is the start of shifting any real thought of the election of 12 to something as stupid as this so called occupation. If you can redirect the attention of the masses then you can get them to vote for the more popular topic at the time.


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## texas_red (Sep 9, 2011)

Seriously?

No


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

We'll have martial law when the US defaults on its debt and all welfare payments stop.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Martial*



BillS said:


> We'll have martial law when the US defaults on its debt and all welfare payments stop.


BINGO ! :congrat:


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BillS said:


> We'll have martial law when the US defaults on its debt and all welfare payments stop.


Yep, that's when the rioting will start.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

BillS said:


> We'll have martial law when the US defaults on its debt and all welfare payments stop.


that is when I initiate ZAP-1 (Zombie Apocalypse Protocol)

too bad we don't have a zombie smilie...


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> that is when I initiate ZAP-1 (Zombie Apocalypse Protocol)
> 
> too bad we don't have a zombie smilie...


:melikey::2thumb::club::club::club::club:


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> that is when I initiate ZAP-1 (Zombie Apocalypse Protocol)
> 
> too bad we don't have a zombie smilie...


I bet that someone on here could come up with one...

I'd love to get a copy of your ZAP-1...I have a SonIL that the only way my daughter could get him excited about prepping was to include preps for zombie annihilation...he's all into that! (just kidding, sorta...)


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

BillS said:


> We'll have martial law when the US defaults on its debt and all welfare payments stop.


Yep, they say as of 2010 there are over 40.8 MILLION americans on food stamps...

But, on the brighter side, here in ARKANSAS, with deer season opening, over a million gun hunters are in the woods this week. Its been said before, that's a bigger army than most countries have...God Bless America and 2nd Amendment rights!


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

The fix for the mess we are in, is as bad or worst than what’s happening now. You put in severe austerity rules, there will be riotous events that will make the riots we've had in the past, look like kindergarten playground fights.

Then you better be prepped.

Martial law may be the least of our worries...

Jimmy


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Jimmy24 said:


> The fix for the mess we are in, is as bad or worst than what's happening now. You put in severe austerity rules, there will be riotous events that will make the riots we've had in the past, look like kindergarten playground fights.
> 
> Then you better be prepped.
> 
> ...


But, at least that's a step in the right direction; painful, certainly; but so is the extraction of that abscessed tooth to get rid of the awful puss and damaged tissue!!
An abscess can lead to death...hhhmmmmm.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

What BillS said. Bill hit it right on the money. Once a default has occurred and the welfare transfers stop....

Still, I really have to wonder how the feds would carry it out. There is no where near the resources to enforce it nation-wide. I suspect selected locations would be locked down - the usual metro cities if it happens at all.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

JayJay said:


> But, at least that's a step in the right direction; painful, certainly; but so is the extraction of that abscessed tooth to get rid of the awful puss and damaged tissue!!
> An abscess can lead to death...hhhmmmmm.


Painful is a little short on definition. I agree there has to be hard decisions, but are we truely ready for them and what will happen if they happen? Are you ready to see the violence done to not only adults but children as well. The starving that will go on?

Truefully, I don't think so.

I'm trying to prep as best I can and hope that it doesn''t happen cause I don't know what the answer is.

Jimmy


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Jimmy24 said:


> Painful is a little short on definition. I agree there has to be hard decisions, but are we truely ready for them and what will happen if they happen? Are you ready to see the violence done to not only adults but children as well. The starving that will go on?
> 
> Truefully, I don't think so.
> 
> ...


None will be ready--the preppers or the 'head in the sand' lemmins.
But, that's what this forum is about---helping us not only MAKE those hard dicisions, but LIVE with those hard decisions.
I can't sleep at times worrying about what you just stated. (sigh)..but I'm not the 'saviour' of this community..I can't do it all; my family must come first.
I'm sorry if that's cruel, but I just remember that Noah tried for years to alert and warn others how unhappy God was with them and we know how that ended..and God closed the ark door, not Noah...
Food for thought.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

JayJay said:


> None will be ready--the preppers or the 'head in the sand' lemmins.
> But, that's what this forum is about---helping us not only MAKE those hard dicisions, but LIVE with those hard decisions.
> I can't sleep at times worrying about what you just stated. (sigh)..but I'm not the 'saviour' of this community..I can't do it all; my family must come first.
> I'm sorry if that's cruel, but I just remember that Noah tried for years to alert and warn others how unhappy God was with them and we know how that ended..and God closed the ark door, not Noah...
> Food for thought.


I agree about this forum and others. Also make no mistake, when it comes to me and mine, I will do what I gotta do. I just hope it don't come to that. I have a bad feeling it will though.

Don't mean I gotta like it.

Jimmy


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## Domeguy (Sep 9, 2011)

Nothing to add . . .just lurking. . .


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

WHEN the SHTF and Welfare stops, yep, the natives will get real restless!
They will have made their own bed - six feet under. I will protect Me & Mine - the Zombies, Golden Horde, et al...... can go to the 'Nether Regions' - I'll even help them on their way.

I just hope the failed FedGov stays out of it - target ID gets quirky when the bullets are flying........


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> What BillS said. Bill hit it right on the money. Once a default has occurred and the welfare transfers stop....
> 
> Still, I really have to wonder how the feds would carry it out. There is no where near the resources to enforce it nation-wide. I suspect selected locations would be locked down - the usual metro cities if it happens at all.


The government could call the National Guard into service during a collapse. Guard the important areas. Once most Americans have died they won't need as many people to control the rest of the population. Once the government regains control of the country it will look like Germany after World War II. The best jobs available would be working for the government. They just screen out the people with ethics and morals. Hire the ones willing to be obey any and all orders against anybody. I'm sure the government could learn from how the Nazis took control of Germany in the 1930s.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

There is a human nature aspect to also consider, Bill. The police, the NG, even the fed's alphabet agencies and the military (but maybe to a lesser degree) will be worried about their own. 

Emergency service nationally completed a study just several years ago and found that during a disaster that impacted a significant area, as few as 10% of emergency responders that were off-duty at the time would report back to duty if contacted. The key word is "contacted". Aside from communications possibly being compromised, many emergency workers would simply refuse to answer the phone or an on-air broadcast asking that they report. I mean, would you? 

I think from my experiences and observations that the system would only hobble along at best.


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## idragrace (Feb 7, 2010)

This is a link to add to the discussion. The article is too long to copy.

Paul McGuire -- Ex-Radical: Wall Street Demonstrations Will Lead to Violent Revolution, Part 2

*PRAY FOR PEACE BUT PREPARE FOR WAR*

I sure hope our speculation is nothing more than overly concerned and all we have to worry about is weather.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

When the Zombies show up, time to break out the *Zombie Ammo*


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> There is a human nature aspect to also consider, Bill. The police, the NG, even the fed's alphabet agencies and the military (but maybe to a lesser degree) will be worried about their own.
> 
> Emergency service nationally completed a study just several years ago and found that during a disaster that impacted a significant area, as few as 10% of emergency responders that were off-duty at the time would report back to duty if contacted. The key word is "contacted". Aside from communications possibly being compromised, many emergency workers would simply refuse to answer the phone or an on-air broadcast asking that they report. I mean, would you?
> 
> I think from my experiences and observations that the system would only hobble along at best.


I could be way off base but from my 20+ yrs. in the military, I forsee more of a post/base lockdown in a "zombie horde" situation after the dependents that live off post/base are brought on post/base for their protection. This has happened in the past and I forsee it happening again.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

oldvet said:


> I could be way off base but from my 20+ yrs. in the military, I forsee more of a post/base lockdown in a "zombie horde" situation after the dependents that live off post/base are brought on post/base for their protection. This has happened in the past and I forsee it happening again.


Sorta like a NEO overseas.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

ComputerGuy said:


> Sorta like a NEO overseas.


Yep something like that.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

oldvet said:


> Yep something like that.


That tactic has been used in the fire service as well. Prior to landfall of Hurricane Hugo years ago, the fire chief of N. Charleston, S.C. allowed his firefighters to bring their families into the fire houses, knowing he would have a difficult if not impossible task of recalling members once the hurricane hit. Worked out fine. Wives cooked and attended the kids, leaving the firefighters to attend to their business - emergency response.

The military will have that advantage. Few other agencies will.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> That tactic has been used in the fire service as well. Prior to landfall of Hurricane Hugo years ago, the fire chief of N. Charleston, S.C. allowed his firefighters to bring their families into the fire houses, knowing he would have a difficult if not impossible task of recalling members once the hurricane hit. Worked out fine. Wives cooked and attended the kids, leaving the firefighters to attend to their business - emergency response.
> 
> The military will have that advantage. Few other agencies will.


Yep, and I betcha you will start to see other agencies doing it as well. It makes total sense that if you know you family is safe and being taken care of it will allow you to respond and do your job.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Vilification of the enemy*

I read a lot of posts here that some of you constantly talk about shooting Zombies like it is going to be a video game or a sport.

In war vilification of the enemy is always nesicary to ensure that troops will pull the trigger on the opposing force. To remain human, we villify the enemy so we don't feel so bad about killing him.

In the situation you are visualizing, you have converted the people who knock on your door as being "Zombies". They won't be Zombies . They will be real living, breathing, begging, mothers , fathers and children. They will be hungry and cold. Some will be angry and dangerous but most will just be beaten, hurt and cold.

You won't be in a possition to help them and you won't want to hurt them either.

You will likely have to use deadly force at some point against someone.

I hope you or I are never in that possition but if I am, I don't want to ever have to remember ,that I laughed or joked about them being "Zombies".


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The very act of refusing to prepare for any kind of emergency is a zombie sort of thing. I don't understand how people think that they can just take what ever someone with some fore thought has. Do these people go and demand money from Bill gates or Donald Trump when ever they run out of cash??


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> The very act of refusing to prepare for any kind of emergency is a zombie sort of thing. I don't understand how people think that they can just take what ever someone with some fore thought has. Do these people go and demand money from Bill gates or Donald Trump when ever they run out of cash??


BillM and Tirediron both have good points. However, to address Tirediron... Put yourself in the place of those people who come for your food. Suppose you DID prepare as best you could, as money allowed along the way, but a year after TSHTF you're out of food. What do you/spouse/kids do? Just sit down and say "oh well, I guess we die now"? No, you do whatever it takes to try to get food. You might head out well-intentioned, hoping to be able to work for someone to earn some food.

But most of what you'll run into is those people who meet you at the door with a gun. They won't trust you. They won't have food to spare. They tell you to leave or they'll shoot you, or they might even just shoot you without even letting you speak.

It's going to be a bad situation all around. Those wandering will be somewhat Zombie like; in shock, hungry, cold, scared. They'll begin to shut down so they won't have to deal with it. Soon they'll barely be human. Very sad. I hope nothing that bad ever happens. But in case it does, I keep on prepping. And hoping I can keep producing food. I don't want to be one of those out wandering.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> BillM and Tirediron both have good points. However, to address Tirediron... Put yourself in the place of those people who come for your food. Suppose you DID prepare as best you could, as money allowed along the way, but a year after TSHTF you're out of food. What do you/spouse/kids do? Just sit down and say "oh well, I guess we die now"? No, you do whatever it takes to try to get food. You might head out well-intentioned, hoping to be able to work for someone to earn some food.
> 
> But most of what you'll run into is those people who meet you at the door with a gun. They won't trust you. They won't have food to spare. They tell you to leave or they'll shoot you, or they might even just shoot you without even letting you speak.
> 
> It's going to be a bad situation all around. Those wandering will be somewhat Zombie like; in shock, hungry, cold, scared. They'll begin to shut down so they won't have to deal with it. Soon they'll barely be human. Very sad. I hope nothing that bad ever happens. But in case it does, I keep on prepping. And hoping I can keep producing food. I don't want to be one of those out wandering.


Thanks for the kick in the gut


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> BillM and Tirediron both have good points. However, to address Tirediron... Put yourself in the place of those people who come for your food. Suppose you DID prepare as best you could, as money allowed along the way, but a year after TSHTF you're out of food. What do you/spouse/kids do? Just sit down and say "oh well, I guess we die now"? No, you do whatever it takes to try to get food. You might head out well-intentioned, hoping to be able to work for someone to earn some food.
> 
> But most of what you'll run into is those people who meet you at the door with a gun. They won't trust you. They won't have food to spare. They tell you to leave or they'll shoot you, or they might even just shoot you without even letting you speak.
> 
> It's going to be a bad situation all around. Those wandering will be somewhat Zombie like; in shock, hungry, cold, scared. They'll begin to shut down so they won't have to deal with it. Soon they'll barely be human. Very sad. I hope nothing that bad ever happens. But in case it does, I keep on prepping. And hoping I can keep producing food. I don't want to be one of those out wandering.


Before running out of supplies one would have to try to forge aliances or find another source, I would try a lot harder to do what I could for a prepper than one of the "I'll just wait for the gov't types, SHTF , Bill is right there will be some hard decisions, but if someone trys to force me or mine to provide supplies things will get ROUGH quick. If the grid dropped out for very long here between mid november and march millions will die,


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

my brother in law is in the Army and when we visited his base (in U.S. at the time) he said the base had enough supplies to go on complete lockdown for up to six months. That included every person living on base, and those military families who lived off base.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Good to know our military bases are prepared that well.

Tirediron, that's a good point. A prepper has an idea of how long their supplies will last, and they'd certainly know when they're running low. It would be foolish to think they'd be going merrily along using those supplies, then one day "oops, we're out", and then what? Duh... they prepped in the first place, I guess they'd know to be forming alliances and thinking about that before the Sh ever HTF, and for sure before they actually eat that last bite of food. 

And if they tried to force me (or any of us!) to give them supplies, you're right, it would get rough quickly. I was thinking of the ones who come to the door just to ask, and how quick some preppers seem to be willing to just shoot. Not all, just some seem to think that way. I have to admit my heart would be in my throat every time someone I didn't know stepped on our property in a real SHTF situation.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> I have to admit my heart would be in my throat every time someone I didn't know stepped on our property in a real SHTF situation.


Yep, you are so right....

Jimmy


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

BillM said:


> I read a lot of posts here that some of you constantly talk about shooting Zombies like it is going to be a video game or a sport.
> 
> In war vilification of the enemy is always nesicary to ensure that troops will pull the trigger on the opposing force. To remain human, we villify the enemy so we don't feel so bad about killing him.
> 
> ...


My vilification will not be vombies, but whomever is out there that is trying to get to my supplies or will hurt me and mine. You are correct about lots of beaten, hurt and cold. That will also be used against you if you are not careful. You give food to the poor beaten down woman and she goes back to tell the bad guys yep, they got stuff.

Identification, will be a big deal in a SHTF situtation. One will have to be very careful.

JMO

Jimmy


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

THis went down a rabbit tral a bit but still a good discussion. How we act/ react to others when it hits will be a challange and require some hard decissions for all of us.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Operational Security*

In a sociatial collapse where food , ammo , medicens , ect. become currency, you should never hand anything out or trade anything from your home.

You need to do this from a Church or hospital.

You should always do and trading from a location set up where black market trading is done. Those areas will become well known.

You never want to go to one of those places with anything you can not conceal of defend.

You want to make sure you are not followed when you leave.

If you give away anything free, you will be marked as someone to go to.

Always require somthing in return for the food , ect. even if it is worthless.

I wouldn't ask for somthing they needed like their shoes but would require they gather some wood or do some out side work, anything to keep them from thinking it was free.

To do otherwise is to invite trouble you don't want.

I am making preps with another Deacon to store some long term food at an alternate location to take to the Church to provide some soup kitchen meals in this event.

If anyone comes to my door I will tell them that the church is giving meals to the hungery at such and such time.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

There are some excellent points raised in these posts, some that I am sure most agree with and some that a few don't agree with. That is as it should be when you are a free thinking individual.
Now about the Zombie issue, my meaning on the use of the word Zombie is describing the criminal element that has and will continue to prey on honest citizens.
No, the folks that are "peacefully" trying to get what they need to feed themselves and or their family are not considered as Zombies by me. If however those peacefull folks decide that taking what they want by force is their only option, then they become my enemy or a Zombie if you want to use that term. If it is easier for someone to pull the trigger on another human being that is intent on doing you or yours harm by thinking of them as a Zombie, then I say go for it. 

We can go back and forth on this issue for days on end and really accomplish nothing other than possibly getting pissed with each other. So I say that it is truly up to each individual as to how they will deal with a "Zombie" situation if it ever actually occurs, and we can go with what if's until the cows come home, so I will end my part of this by saying prep and plan the best you can and let your conscience, common sense, and (hopefully) training be your guide in dealing with others during a SHTF situation.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Oldvet I agree with you. My concern is the lack of moral, values, and lack of personal responsibility in society today. There were many times when people were starving and they did not go out and kill and steal. The moral factor has separated us from the animals through history. I fear that modern society is in some ways more animalistic than ever before


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> Good to know our military bases are prepared that well.
> 
> I have to admit my heart would be in my throat every time someone I didn't know stepped on our property in a real SHTF situation.


If you think about it, you're probably in just as much danger from people you know. I'm sure we all have friends, neighbors, relatives, and co-workers that would think you owe them something after it hits the fan. I've tried warning a number of people. Doesn't do any good. They either think I'm crazy or they think hyperinflation is coming but aren't doing anything about it. We'll probably have a number of people knocking on our door but I'm not opening it for anyone. We have a year's supply of food and water for ourselves. Any additional person we feed lowers our chance of survival. Sure, I could give someone a box of dry cereal and a gallon of water. But that only delays the inevitable. There are hundreds of people who live within a mile of us. I can't afford to have anybody see us giving someone food. The more people who know you have food the more dangerous it becomes.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lefty said:


> Oldvet I agree with you. My concern is the lack of moral, values, and lack of personal responsibility in society today. There were many times when people were starving and they did not go out and kill and steal. The moral factor has separated us from the animals through history. I fear that modern society is in some ways more animalistic than ever before


Lefty, I can completely agree with you on the morals issue and that is to me a major problem in this Country.

The current lack of morals by all types and classes (if those are the proper terms) of people in this Country is truly alarming.
IMO the down hill slide started shortly after God and prayer was taken out of our schools and it has even gotten so bad that it seems like more and more people are afraid to offend someone if they simply say Merry Christmas.

Those of you that were brought up in the fifties and sixties will remember how censorship was on TV back then, even married couples slept in twin beds. Now you will see everything on TV from explicit sex scenes to dopers doing their thing, and even ads for everything from condoms to male enhancers, and that just scratches the surface.

I could go on and on, but I won't irritate anyone and do that, I will just say that IMHO the loss of this Country's moral fiber and core beliefs are quickly leading to the down fall of this "Once Great Nation".


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Lefty, I can completely agree with you on the morals issue and that is to me a major problem in this Country.
> 
> The current lack of morals by all types and classes (if those are the proper terms) of people in this Country is truly alarming.
> IMO the down hill slide started shortly after God and prayer was taken out of our schools and it has even gotten so bad that it seems like more and more people are afraid to offend someone if they simply say Merry Christmas.
> ...


Amen we are on the same page my friend. I remember an old saying "if need was a justifaction for stealing it would be the occupation of the masses" I fear it is coming to that


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Good to know our military bases are prepared that well.
> 
> Tirediron, that's a good point. A prepper has an idea of how long their supplies will last, and they'd certainly know when they're running low. It would be foolish to think they'd be going merrily along using those supplies, then one day "oops, we're out", and then what? Duh... they prepped in the first place, I guess they'd know to be forming alliances and thinking about that before the Sh ever HTF, and for sure before they actually eat that last bite of food.
> 
> And if they tried to force me (or any of us!) to give them supplies, you're right, it would get rough quickly. I was thinking of the ones who come to the door just to ask, and how quick some preppers seem to be willing to just shoot. Not all, just some seem to think that way. I have to admit my heart would be in my throat every time someone I didn't know stepped on our property in a real SHTF situation.


One post said don't answer the door---that's great for a while--and when they begin to break in??/ 
How to let them know you're armed??
I say don't OPEN the door and tell them you don't trust ANYONE>


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

BillM said:


> In a sociatial collapse where food , ammo , medicens , ect. become currency, you should never hand anything out or trade anything from your home.
> 
> You need to do this from a Church or hospital.
> 
> ...


I don't think I think like most--every time you leave your home, you're leaving your family unsecure.


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