# We've never had flooding but are now in a "flood plain"



## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

We have a _very_ small wet weather creek that run through our property, and thanks to FEMA's new flood plain maps, our entire property (including our home) is now classified as being in a flood plain. All homes designated as being in a flood plain and carrying a mortgage are required to have flood insurance. We are lucky in that our home is paid off, but should we ever want to sell, we can look forward to a greatly reduced home value.

I am still looking into this, but I have been told that because of the flood plain designation, we can not build another structure on our property and that even building a garden shed could earn us a $500 a day fine until it is removed. So much for the new coop and the root cellar we have plans for.

The home was built in the mid 70's, and has never flooded. The creek is so small. that our neighbors who have lived on their property for over 50 years, didn't even know that there is a wet weather creek on this property.

Another fine example of our Federal Government at work. :gaah:


----------



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

It would be worth the time and expense to meet with an attorney and go over exactly what this new circumstance really means for you. 

Basically, you have been denied use of your own property without due process.

Are others nearby affected same as you? Find out. Maybe a class action can be brought against FEMA and have them explain to a judge how they made this determination, as it sounds as if it was in error.

Its interesting in that only the feds sell flood insurance. Select areas that never flood, claim its a flood plain - requiring flood insurance, collect premiums but never have risk. Nice!


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

k0xxx, there is something you can do. You MAY be able to geta LOMA or LOMR, that is letter of map amendment or letter of map revision. Both are issued by FEMA and effectively take all or part of your property out of a flood zone. The first step is to get an elevation certificate. These are prepared by a licensed surveyor, presented to FEMA along with a LOMA/LOMR application. The elevation certificate may cost a bit but I don't believe the application and determination with FEMA costs anything. There is a place on line where you can look up whether or not any LOMAs or LOMRs have been issued in your area. This will give you some idea of what's going on in your neck of the woods. I'll try to find you a link if you care. 

I spend significantly more time than I like dealing with flood insurance issues. It is NOT fun. FEMA is remapping flood plains all over the place. The new maps are raising havock for a LOT of people. Flood insurance is not cheap and unlike title insurance is not a one time premium payment. I've seen people pay tens of thousands of dollars every year for the mandatory purchase of flood insurance. Its downright ugly. That said, a flooded house isn't pretty.
Take care,
Moose


----------



## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Thanks for the information Jezcruzen and Moose. I will be exploring all options.

Moose, if you come across the link please post it, as I have been unable to locate it yet. Thanks!


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

Well, it looks like a map amendment for one lot and one structure is free as I thought. There are charges for other types of FEMA reviews. I'm going to have to wait until I get to work to get the FEMA LOMAs issued address link. It's impossible (for me) to find on the FEMA website. I've never found it on my own and have always had to have my expert send it to me.  
Here's the fee schedule link.
http://www.fema.gov/plan/prevent/fhm/frm_fees.shtm#2
More to come,
Moose


----------



## fedorthedog (Apr 14, 2011)

We are going thru this is our area. We had a 10000 year flood in 2007 20 inches of rain in 24 hours. A lot of the area has been placed into the flood plain, and people are contesting this. There is a way to protest and a seasonal creek is way off base for a flood threat unless is drains a very large are that cant be retained at lower elevation without flooding your property. 

In out case building over 100 years old that had never flooded had 8 feet of water in them. FEMA had responded to a 1996 flood here with such great foresight in mapping that they missed what was coming by miles. Now they dont want to pay for the damage that they never should have started paying for in the first place so they are trying to get everyone insured.


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

http://gis1.msc.fema.gov/Website/newstore/viewer.htm

k0xxx, above is a link to the FEMA site where you can enter a property address. If for some reason the address doesn't work you can zoom in on the map and get the panel number for your address/area and search by panel number.

I did a short on line chat with FEMA and got the following: LOMCs may be found on the Map Service Center website, http://msc.fema.gov. If you have a property address, you may enter the address and use the "Product Search by" feature on the MSC home page to locate the map panel that shows the area in which the property is located. Associated with that map panel are all valid LOMCs for the area. A valid LOMC may be found under the SHOW LOMC column with a + (plus) sign.

A LOMC is a Letter Of Map Change. Hope this helps you out a bit.
Take care,
Moose


----------



## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Moose, Thank you very much for your assistance, it has helped us a lot. 

Today we scheduled an appointment with an attorney that has some experience in this area. I don't know what the outcome will be, but at least we have the ball rolling. Thanks again! Your help is greatly appreciated.


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

k0xxx, you are most welcome. Because I spend so much time dealing with flood regs. I'm very interested to find out what steps you have to take and how it turns out. If you can share that information later I'd really appreicate it.
Take care,
Moose


----------



## Kenny78 (Jul 12, 2011)

I have a friend that went through the process that Moose is talking about. It worked well, tough I dont remember too many specifics. Those FEMA mappers are some sharp cookies now. His house is 20' higher than the creek at the back of the property, that wasnt included in the map:nuts:

Good Luck


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

Kenny78, as I understand it flood maps make no allowance for elevation. The companies that make the "in or out" determinations lay a, usually, tax map over the FEMA maps and if your property is in a flood zone that's how they call it. While your property may look like it's in a flood plain on a flat surface you could, in reality, be twenty feet above the actual flood plain. That's why the first step in the LOMA/LOMR process is usually a elevation certificate. I'm not a cartographer or surveyor but it seems to me that if the FEMA maps allowed for elevation it'd save folks a LOT of money. But, that's just me...
Take care,
Moose


----------



## Kenny78 (Jul 12, 2011)

The bureaucracy is astonishing isn't it. I appreciate your detailed responses cause I have talked to several people recently in the same spot and most didn't realize they could appeal

OTOH Moose, I think you mentioned your cat was a devil in another thread, looks like a Maine ****. My 1 yr old Maine mix is going to drive me crazy. She and the German shepherd have bonded so tight that the gsd gets upset when the cat is in our lap.


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi Kenny78, leave it to the government to come to help you but not tell you how to appeal their help.  

Yeah, my beautiful but evil cat. She's a piece of work. Friendly when it suits her, food treats and so on. She does sometimes sit on my lap for as much as a minute or two. She's not a Maine ****, I don't think. Her actual heritage is in question. A couple of days after loosing my 14 year old 3 pound yorkie, still sad about that, the local vet called me and asked if I'd foster four, four week old kittens someone had found. She's the only one nobody wanted, so I figured what the heck. She needed a home, I sure wasn't going to put her down or out. I've always figured she was a generic domestic short hair suitable for every day petting, when she approves. She is really beautiful and we've come to an understanding, of sorts and on her terms. 

I hope this thread keeps running. I'm really interessted in other people's experiences. My entire day today was tied up in flood issues. 

Take care,
Moose
Opps, Just realized, sorry for the hijack.


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

http://www.fema.gov/library/viewRecord.do?id=2954

It dawned on me today how easy this would've been. If you go to the FEMA Mandatory Purchase of Flood Insurance Guide pages 14 through 18 it outlines quite a bit about the LOMA/LOMR process. This 2007 guide is the most recent. IIRC 2007 was the last time any of the rules changed. Now you all get to see what I have my head buried in every day.

It seemed like some folks were interested so I thought I'd offer one more bit of information.
Take care,
Moose


----------



## fondini (Mar 18, 2012)

I have seen a house that got 4foot of water in it,and it was around 8 miles from the river. It just so happened that was the way the land channeled it. It was sad because they had no flood insurance so had to bear the cost themselves. That was the so called 100 year flood, it was nasty. So check your topographical maps closely!


----------

