# Water Question



## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Thinking of putting one or more storage containers in line between my water line and hot water heater so there is a constant supply of fresh water available, simply have to turn off the tap in the event of disruption. I'm thinking something like a hot water heater (minus the element of course) and looking to store 250 gallons or more.

They would be gravity fed with bottom drains for access.

Anyone with any experience with this idea?


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We have a header tank that feeds the house, about 200 gallons or so. If we have an interruption it will supply the house for a few days if we are conservative. It's high enough to supply the shower upstairs. This tank is filled from either our rainwater storage tank (Electric/solar pump) or well storage tank (gravity) so if one fails we can switch over to the other. If it's purely a pumping problem from the rainwater store we have a small hand pump. I've had this system in nearly every house I've owned as it acts both as an emergency storage as well as providing some gravity pressure to the system if the power fails to our pressure pumps. In this house it sits in the roof space, in other houses they have sat on top of a tower or in one case on a hill behind the house.
The one in this house is similar to what you are describing, an old hot water service. We put it up high enough in the system to provide gravity feed if the power fails.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

bugoutbob said:


> Thinking of putting one or more storage containers in line between my water line and hot water heater so there is a constant supply of fresh water available, simply have to turn off the tap in the event of disruption. I'm thinking something like a hot water heater (minus the element of course) and looking to store 250 gallons or more.
> 
> They would be gravity fed with bottom drains for access.
> 
> Anyone with any experience with this idea?


I think this is a great idea, but do you have a specific tank in mind? If you use water heaters without using the element, you are talking some money.

I know there are water storage tanks in a variety of sizes, made of some sort of heavy duty plastic. Is this what you have in mind?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

The thing is, if you want to have the tank in-line it has to be a pressure vessel, so it is hard to find a cheap alternative. 

On well water "pressure tanks" are used as a short term storage (buffer) and there is a huge range of sizes available, they can also be "stacked" (multiple units) for more storage. The old galvanized ones are still around for reasonable prices but they are not without issues, the new ones with diaphragms are pricy.

It is likely going to end up considerably more expensive than a unpressurized tank but other than that they might be an option. The water heaters will work too and might appear slightly less out of the ordinary if that is a concern.


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## talob (Sep 16, 2009)

bugoutbob said:


> Thinking of putting one or more storage containers in line between my water line and hot water heater so there is a constant supply of fresh water available, simply have to turn off the tap in the event of disruption. I'm thinking something like a hot water heater (minus the element of course) and looking to store 250 gallons or more.
> 
> They would be gravity fed with bottom drains for access.
> 
> Anyone with any experience with this idea?


Another small advantage to doing this is the water heater will only have to heat the water from room tempreture instead of ground tempreture.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

I haven't taken this beyond the initial thought/brain storming stage. I have the space near my hot water heater and thought to would be a way to utilize it. Had not thought about the need to be a pressurized tank or what sort of material to use.

It just hit me the other day and I realized I had not seen anyone with something similar but figured the good folks on here would have some valuable feedback and suggestions.

Having to conceal it is not an issue, as it will be tucked away in the furnace room. The less expensive the better.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*water system set-up*

I have been thinking of doing the same with 55 gallon seal top drums, and connect them in series to my home water supply that way the water is fresh all the time, the connection will be the same as the water heater through the bung caps with a pipe union for easy disconnect and attachment for a 12 volt RV pump set-up or bung removal and manual pump.There are many systems out there but very few are connected to the home water system like the water heater and finding a seal top tank is not easy,


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

readytogo said:


> I have been thinking of doing the same with 55 gallon seal top drums, and connect them in series to my home water supply that way the water is fresh all the time,,


Those drums will not be able to handle that much pressure.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LincTex said:


> Those drums will not be able to handle that much pressure.


Any pressure is going to turn the ends round. If you want to store water other than using a water heater tank it's best to have a float valve system and have a pump to pull out of the drums or tanks. As always the bigger the tank the better in case of long term non availability of a water supply. Gravity feed is the best but not everyone is able to work this out. We happen to live on the side of a mountain about 30 feet above the valley floor and the 1,100 gallon concrete cistern we built is roughly 50 feet elevation above our home and we get 25 psi. It would be great if one could at least have a stand just outside to put any water storage tanks on, it's what I suggest to people that live on flat ground but then it sticks out like a sore thumb. Water storage in house attics is not a bad idea but boy do you every have to have strong rafters and inner support walls.


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Something I have also been researching is this water storage deal. I want to try and stay gravity fed if at all possible; NAY. I am staying gravity fed. Hell there are still buildings in New York City that have the old wood tanks on the top to supply the upper floors that can not be fed by regular street level pressure.

On to my point for wanting to post in the thread - Are you comfortable with having just the 250 gallons? That 250 gal will go a lot quicker than you think. Are there any options for waiting and rethinking the plan? What I mean is why bother for only the 250 gallons, think about expanding now and over-estimate. Here in central Texas when they do road work they only widen the road by a single lane. 5 years later they are doing the same thing - Why not add 3 lanes the first time instead of doing construction every 5 years???
Yes I am sure use it or lose it annual budgets may have something to do with the constant construction but you get the point; over-improve the first time.

Just throwing that out there. 250 gallons seems like a lot but it really isn't. Of course we do not fully understand your plans or your situation and maybe 250 gallons is all you can manage.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

doubleTHICK does have a point and it's one I hammer on because I realize just how fast water can be used, I'm concerned that our 1,100 gallon cistern is not enough and I've been wanting to add another 1,000 to 1,500 gallon storage tank to our system simply because in late summer our spring overflow often gets down to dripping rather than a steady flow. Thankfully with much of the logged areas growing back above use our spring overflow has improved in the last few years and is doing very good so far even with the forest fire we had above us, luckily the fire burned mostly underbrush.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Having spent a lot of time in situations where the only water available was what I carried, 250 gallons can be quite a lot. Often we used as little as 1 gallon/person/day so in an emergency :dunno:. 

Laundry takes a quite a bit and with small children you are going to need more but for just cooking, drinking, and careful hygiene it is surprising how far water will go. What an "average" family typically uses in a day COULD last for a week or more.

Personally I think something like the 1250 gallon (1500 U.S) poly tanks for around $600 are a great deal but obviously they aren't going to work for everyone.


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

There is no doubt that with water more is better. I only used the 250 gallon number because its about what I have space for in the configuration I am thinking of. It is to be an add-on to supplement what I can do now.


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## aknodak (Feb 25, 2014)

*Water Storage/Access*

We have 2 1200 gallon cisterns, in our basement, so NOT gravity fed. They have a pump at the bottom, but if the pump is without electricity, I am not sure how I would get water out of them. Any ideas?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> I am not sure how I would get water out of them. Any ideas?


A 12 volt RV pump would be an easy solution.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

aknodak said:


> We have 2 1200 gallon cisterns, in our basement, so NOT gravity fed. They have a pump at the bottom, but if the pump is without electricity, I am not sure how I would get water out of them. Any ideas?


Easiest would be to just find another way to power the pump; inverter, generator etc.

Another option is to get a small pump, preferably 12V, anything from an rv pump for pressure or a cheap little fountain pump if you just need to get the water out, not under pressure. A fully charged battery will easily pump hundreds of gallons of water with an efficient pump. Cheap drill pumps are an option too but usually of poor quality ime. An rv type pump can be connected right to your water system either permanently or through a "garden hose" to an existing faucet.

Most expensive but very reliable is a manual pump like a pitcher pump, they work great with low head like a basement but of course you aren't going to have any pressure


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

For the basement water storage, just make sure they are off the ground enough to get a bucket underneath them. It is MUCH easier to conserve when you hand haul each gallon than when it is like it used to be, readily flowing. Remember that is survival water storage, NOT maintaining current usage water storage. If you can and want the convenience, go with the suggested 12 volt pump.

For BOB's questions. If they are plumbed in line with your regular water lines, pressure should not be an issue. Look at your regular, in use, hot water tank. Is water pressure an issue? Nope! You can have one or a hundred tanks along your main line and it will not affect anything. Your incoming water will simply flow through each one before you use it. If the heating elements are electric, they should be stainless steel, no need to remove them, just don't hook them up. If they are gas, just don't hook gas to them, why remove them? They do not take up that much storage space and will cause more leak issues if you fiddle with them.

Having a yearly drain the bottom of the tank regime would be good, as with a regular hot water tank. But other than that it is a great idea for water storage. To facilitate more tanks, just make sure you have a 'loop' or union in your water line where you can shut off the water, add another tank or more, then turn it back on. Better yet! Have a "bypass" where your regular water can run while you add more storage, when you are finished turn the valve on and all tanks will fill.

As a side note... When I learned to plumb from an old timer, he was big on "stop and waste" shutoffs. Any valve for that matter. First thing he did, on any project, was to put in a cutoff valve. Do the project, and put in cutoff's anytime something went upstairs. Nothing handier! Have a leak somewhere? Go downstairs, shut off the affected appliance and everything else in the house works. Nothing more frustrating than [email protected]@king around for a way to turn off the water to something in an emergency! Yeah, there is always the main, but then nothing has water until you fix the problem!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

A simple siphon should give you access to most of it. You'll have to pack it up the stairs….


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Forgot to mention price!!! Go to any used appliance place or scrap yard and you can get burned out glass lined water heaters for next to nothing. I don't know about recently, but not that long ago folks were downgrading from 50/60 gallon tanks to 30 gallon or on demand tanks. If you know a local plumber even better! Let him know and he will call you when he has one so he does not have to haul it himself.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I assumed the basement tanks were below the floor, if not then a siphon would work but so would just loosening a line near the bottom of the tank, or ideally installing a valve now.

Woody, the pressure issue was only in regards to the type of tank used. A hot water heater IS a pressure vessel, a poly tank or even a barrel; not so much


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Yes, agreed. I was commenting on the OP hot water tank idea. The poly barrels would have to be off line. Sorry if I caused any confusion.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Woody said:


> Sorry if I caused any confusion.


I am sure you didn't. I hope I didn't

I looked for "cheap" pressure tanks online and didn't find any great deals, last galvanized one I saw locally was cheaper :dunno:

This is what I was referring to for anyone wondering.
http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Pressure-Tanks/N-5yc1vZbudt

















The 120gallon ones in all the different styles seem to be around the $550 mark.

If used for water storage you really don't need the diaphragm they put in to keep them from getting water logged because that is what you would want. Maybe you could find them with faulty diaphragms or find someone who needs a new one and buy the same model to save a few bucks. Of course, like everyone has mentioned hot water tanks can work.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I guess I feel fortunate having been given (for free) so many blue poly food grade barrels. Too bad that commercial bakery got shut down and moved to Mexico....

I still like IBC totes (275 gallon) for most water storage uses. They store a lot more water in a smaller area than blue drums will (and are stackable)


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

They sell between $50 to $175 here, for the same thing. I do not have any, blue barrels have me covered. If I was still working I would be saving for a few of the totes though, they look like a great investment.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

The only benefit I see to barrels (over the totes) is that they are movable without any machines or even a pallet jack. Not, "Oh I'll just move that over here" movable, but doable in a pinch. Other than that the totes have the advantage in terms of space, ease of plumbing, etc, imo. Price is often the deciding factor though.

I can definitely see the potential benefits of having the water stored inline. It would always be fresh, the tanks full, already plumbed into the existing system. Whether or not it is worth the cost/time to set it up :dunno:

None of this applies in my situation but it is an interesting topic.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

The inline storage is definitely a good point. It keeps itself refreshed as you use your regular water.

Good point!


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

Woody said:


> The inline storage is definitely a good point. It keeps itself refreshed as you use your regular water.


That's my goal as I think this whole thing through


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## oldasrocks (Jun 30, 2012)

If you are installing them inline for a pressure system make sure you have a one way valve installed. If the waterline is cut or shut down outside the whole storage area may backflow and leave you with empty tanks.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

oldasrocks said:


> If you are installing them inline for a pressure system make sure you have a one way valve installed. If the waterline is cut or shut down outside the whole storage area may backflow and leave you with empty tanks.


Good point, imagine thinking you had full tanks of water only to find out someone a bit down the hill got it all:gaah: A check valve is only a few bucks.

Do most water grids not have check valves at the meter?


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