# Harsh or realistic perspectives II.



## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Here's a few of my survivalism related views, these are opinions and perspectives that work for me. I'm sharing them with others to consider as possible views which might help if TEOTWAWKI occurs.

You don't have to adopt them or even accept them, but for some, this will save them some serious problems.

These are likely controversial to the kumbaya crowd and the sheeple. If you're like that, please stop reading! I'm not seeking disagreement, I'm seeking to communicate with folks who can contribute. (Arguing how nice you are, and easy to get along with and how angry it gets a person when someone is so direct is really silly, so please, move on.)

This for those who want to view preps in direct manners, and take things seriously and I'm hoping others can contribute suitable examples so I can fine tune the phrasing.

Some of my harsh perpsective mindset will require transitional thinking to better suit TEOTWAWKI and some of it is contrary to my personal views in daily life.

*1. Not everyone has a valuable opinion, nor can everyone contribute.*

Contrary to what our educational and training systems express, not everyone can contribute. Some folks aren't bright enough or imaginative enough to contribute to discussion. Some don't have the capacity for abstract thought, some can't transistion concepts from known areas to new needs. In some survival situations, I doubt I'd be sitting around discussing things, I'd set to work with my sons and others getting things done and I don't want to be held back.

CONTEXT matters: I could give a rat's a** about what a welfare single mother with five children from five different fathers has to say about most issues, except perhaps on how to stretch food. That's a person who makes poor decisions, has no self discipline, and creates burdens for others. She might have a vote in our Democracy, she's got no vote when it comes to my efforts and resources in survivalism. One might figure a homeless person might be a bad source of information, however, anyone who can survive 15 degree temps and other nights with heavy rains with just a blue tarp, some cardboard boxes and blankets might have great information. I'd listen to some things from folks who grew up and stayed poor and reached a ripe old age, but I'd be wary about their decisions on resources and work ethic. This goes both ways: You'd not want me organizing the group hugs, camp fire songs, and senstivity awareness training but I'd be Hell on wheels when it comes to horse trading, establishing work priorities and making observations.

*2. Rapid categorization of people is essential.*

Using what I understand about interview, interrogation and survivalism, I plan on rapidly learning what I can about a person's capabilities and experiences to see what utility they have toward survivalism, and expect them to be doing the same. If they're as ready and decisive as I am, we'll do well. I'l categorize folks as 'essential', 'useful', 'marginal', and 'worthless' and the most dangerous category 'unknown'. Then there are characterizations that are of other use, 'friendly', 'predatory', 'resource', and, again, the dangerous 'unknown'.

Are the categories 100%? NO!~ however, it's a quick way to start watching folks and no one but blood relations are trustworthy right off the bat.

*3. What can you do for me?*

[In my personal, day to day life, I wonder, how can I help? For hardcore survivalism, I'll have to transition and this will be difficult for me, but I see it as necessary.]

I'm in this to save my friends, family, and myself, those I care about. The reason for the categorization is the harsh reality of utility-what can you do for me? Of what benefit is an association between us? I've enough folks to take care of that I already care for, I don't need more drags. I'll help when I can, but can I count on you? Will you cover my back or stab it?

Does this mean one should kick someone to the curb if they falter, get sick, or get injured? Heck no!

*4. There's no need to get along with everyone.*

If you're getting along with everyone, you're giving in on everything.

This isn't about political correctness, it's about harsh reality and being right or wrong can make the difference between life and death. Disagreements regarding politics now are one thing, disagreements regarding resource use, security, and work matter in preparedness. Even these harsh views won't be accepted by others but that's OK, if a person into prepping fully agreed with everyone regarding everything, he or she is likely doing it wrong. Sheeple accept anything to agree.


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## PopPop (Sep 14, 2010)

I am with you on this one, You could add : "There is such a thing as a stupid question".
I would also state that most Americans are victims of their bankrupt social and moral philosophy. There are too many of us who are so detatched from what is important and real. Most are concerned with sports, music, and other mass means of entertainment. We as a people have become so entertained that we do not understand nature, buisness/money, energy, agriculture, politics and the mechanics of our Constitutional Republic. This has led to a unsustainable society and thus the SHTF.


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## ajsmith (Feb 1, 2010)

I like what your saying, suits me just fine save one thing, this is my own personal situation but I don't trust about half of my "blood relations". Other than that you hit the nail on the head!!!!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

AJ, I'm sorry about that, I'm fortunate, or maybe it's a matter of distance from some relatives that makes things better! (Some of my Texas and I assume my Missouri, relatives we don't talk about.) That's good, that's a factor I need to remove from otherwise solid views.


PopPop-I always love that one...You're in training and some instructor says the infamous 'There's no such thing as a stupid question' and he's inevitably proven wrong very quickly.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

Hey SurviveNthrive

I tried to PM you but your Inbox is full


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

It's all them love letters I keep getting from the 'fan club'.:2thumb::wave:

I cleared out some space.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I have to agree, times will be hard enough without someone, who want carry their weight, hanging onto your coat tail. We have one family member who is slowly coming on board. She calls with all sorts of questions, don't mind glad to help. We have another who told us if there is anything she needs to know her husband will tell her and so far he just laughs at us.


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

in a true shtf long term situation, I am working to survive, help my family survive. While I can't do it alone for a great length of time, that doens't mean that I need bad attitude. While I don't plan to be a dictator or even unreasonable, in a survival situation, when push comes to shove it's "my house, my rules". I may be crying when I say it, but whoever isn't prepared to work according to ability (and beyond) can hit the highway...kids, grandkids, friend or any one else. You don't work, you don't eat.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Herbalpagan said:


> in a true shtf long term situation, I am working to survive, help my family survive. While I can't do it alone for a great length of time, that doens't mean that I need bad attitude. While I don't plan to be a dictator or even unreasonable, in a survival situation, when push comes to shove it's "my house, my rules". I may be crying when I say it, but whoever isn't prepared to work according to ability (and beyond) can hit the highway...kids, grandkids, friend or any one else. You don't work, you don't eat.


Totally! Well put! :congrat:


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I do wonder how hard it'd be to kick out someone if it came down to it...or more likely, turning away others.

I guess the hard thing to remember is RIGHT now we're prepping. We got interested in survivalism just as anyone else could. They've the same opportunities and instead of doing other things we dedicated time to it. If this never happens, fine, but it's a wise investment of time, resources, and energy.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Herbalpagan said:


> in a true shtf long term situation, I am working to survive, help my family survive. While I can't do it alone for a great length of time, that doens't mean that I need bad attitude. While I don't plan to be a dictator or even unreasonable, in a survival situation, when push comes to shove it's "my house, my rules". I may be crying when I say it, but whoever isn't prepared to work according to ability (and beyond) can hit the highway...kids, grandkids, friend or any one else. You don't work, you don't eat.


Don't feel bad...it's written...

King James Bible
For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

2 Thessalonians 3:10


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Your outlook by some is or could be considered harsh..but I agree with you...ppl come in two varieties...assests and liabilities..you have to decide which is which and act accordingly using cold hard logic as your guide to your goal..whats that saying..the sacrifice of the few for the benefit of the many?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

azurevirus said:


> Your outlook by some is or could be considered harsh..but I agree with you...ppl come in two varieties...assests and liabilities..you have to decide which is which and act accordingly using cold hard logic as your guide to your goal..whats that saying..the sacrifice of the few for the benefit of the many?


Sure, but when it's your child, parent, sibling, or even significant other (spouse or whatever), that's a hard choice some people won't be able to make.

If the SHTF, motivations and outlooks can change. The things people don't want to do or learn NOW can become something they want very much to learn.

Other than immediate family, the decisions will be easier.


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> PopPop-I always love that one...You're in training and some instructor says the infamous 'There's no such thing as a stupid question' and he's inevitably proven wrong very quickly.


If someone doesn't ask a stupid question then they will most definately say a dumb answer.



Herbalpagan said:


> in a survival situation, when push comes to shove it's "my house, my rules". I may be crying when I say it, but whoever isn't prepared to work according to ability (and beyond) can hit the highway...kids, grandkids, friend or any one else. You don't work, you don't eat.


I figure anyone can split wood with a maul, and limb a tree. Unless they are physically inept. Then they can learn to knit.



SurviveNthrive said:


> I do wonder how hard it'd be to kick out someone if it came down to it...or more likely, turning away others.


I just think of it as I wouldn't help person A because they will want to come back, I want help person B because he/she can help theirself. But lacks the intiative.


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## gds (Oct 10, 2008)

I am a bit frustrated with this site, I was going to reply to the original post but it can't be viewed while replying.

Anyway SN, I think you may have a bit of CA in you. ( for you non military, CA is Candy A--.) I don't think your spiel was harsh, IMO it was quite tame and bordering PC, especially after reading the follow up posts. 

You Said:
"I do wonder how hard it'd be to kick out someone if it came down to it...or more likely, turning away others."

You don't kick anyone out, if they have been In then they know to much,you terminate.

If your wondering, you haven't been there. Pray to whatever entity you believe in that you never find yourself in that situation. 

IMO the termination of liabilities does not require a second thought. Once something/someone chooses to become a liability then it's time for it /them to quite wasting my oxygen.

gotta do something while your here!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

gds said:


> I am a bit frustrated with this site, I was going to reply to the original post but it can't be viewed while replying.
> 
> Anyway SN, I think you may have a bit of CA in you. ( for you non military, CA is Candy A--.) I don't think your spiel was harsh, IMO it was quite tame and bordering PC, especially after reading the follow up posts.
> 
> ...


*[I'd caution others to read that post, it's about murdering people who become disabled, liabilities in other ways. That's disturbing. If that person was/is an actual service member, that's a serious concern.]*

I'm hoping instead this is what is called a "Wolf ticket" in the military or in law enforcement.

A wolf ticket is when one talks, or in this case, writes 'bad ass' about actually doing something that isn't likely. In this case the person is casually claiming *murder*.

_You don't kick anyone out, if they have been In then they know to much,you terminate._

Yeah, that individual has written that he's been there, as in been there, done that. That means he's committed murder rather than let someone go and he's providing that evidence here online. If that isn't an admission, it's advocating murder. I also don't think that any of us have faced TEOTWAWKI because we'd all be aware of that occurring, wouldn't we, by definition. None of us have been there because it hasn't happened since the Fall of the Roman Empire and even then, it wasn't for everyone in the world.

_IMO the termination of liabilities does not require a second thought. Once something/someone chooses to become a liability then it's time for it /them to quite wasting my oxygen._

No worthwhile soldier, sailor, airman, Marine or human would agree. When a brother is severely injured they become liabilities, but we safe guard, tend, and evacuate to them. They become the mission. An injured servicemember, friend or family member isn't a waste of oxygen, nor would any sane individual end their lives for being injured.

A post like the one above, about killing people who become liabilities would ensure that person couldn't pass psychological screening for many occupations...it might be good to consider that when dealing with someone with that opinion.

*This brings up an odd question...what if you have someone in a group who wants to kill people who become 'liabilities' in their view, as this person does?*


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## gds (Oct 10, 2008)

Interesting how quick you were to attack. I do agree with your original post, I just think it does not go far enough.

Don't know what a wolf ticket is or TEOTWAWKI. I guess I could google it, I am always interested in moving forward with my knowledge and awareness level.

But all that aside, you appear to be very presumptuous about many things. 

"writes 'bad ass' but isn't backing it." 
Exactly how does someone back up what I shared on some piss ant forum??

"Yeah, you've written that you've been there. That means you've committed murder and you're providing that evidence here online."

I am positive that a "murder" or "multiple murders" that are sanctioned by our government, do not fall into the jurisdiction of piss ant yokels.

If you would like to address the points you made in your original post I would be more then happy to guide you along your path.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

If you advocate killing people close to you when they become liabilities, it's certainly not worth developing a rapport with you, however, what you wrote generated concern and it might be authentic, and therefore, requiring response.

Remember, you are volunteering this information.

If you wish to back up your statements, it's simple, provide dates, unit, operation and what took place so it can be verified with the right people on JB Ft. Lewis/McCord. By all means, share what branch of the service you were in, what your MOS was, as you're specifically referring to that record and you served with the view that you eliminated those around you who became 'liabilities'. Much Better Alternative: If you genuinely feel as you've stated, and if you've actually plan on doing what you're advocating, please speak to someone in your chain of command. This is too serious to be bantered around about on the Internet with strangers and perhaps you've gone off on a tangent and need to check that behavior and attitude. No one taught you murder in the military. If anything, the ROE and Status of Forces agreement are both so stringent that they endanger rather than enable soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines.

The US military doesn't sanction 'murders'. This isn't a Hollywood driven discussion, this is based on what is actually occurring. Several court martials in Ft. Lewis of Stryker Brigade soldiers who committed murders in Afghanistan took place with successful prosecutions. There is the Law of Land Warfare and the Rules of Engagement and they are followed and obviously, violations are taken seriously. This is one of a series of such cases: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/431037_lewis.html

Now if you really are an operative who committed 'sanctioned killings' I doubt that you'd be sharing this on the Internet and from those few folks with interesting fields I've met at Quantico, Belguim and Panama, they generally wrote in a manner indicative of people possessing excellent education and they certainly didn't share anything of interest to anyone without a need to know.

Dude, if you're unravelling, talk to the right folks, you know who they are.


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## gds (Oct 10, 2008)

NK said:

"Contrary to what our educational and training systems express, not everyone can contribute. Some folks aren't bright enough or imaginative enough to contribute to discussion. Some don't have the capacity for abstract thought, some can't transistion concepts from known areas to new needs. In some survival situations, I doubt I'd be sitting around discussing things, I'd set to work with my sons and others getting things done and I don't want to be held back."


So which part of "not everyone can contribute" is not clear?

" getting things done and I don't want to be held back." 

I think you made it clear, you have no time for oxygen thieves, non doers, sick ,lame,and lazy.


If your going to spout the spiel, be able to back it up. 
Being some piss ant, that is WONDERING weather or not he can kick out someone from something,WHAT? 

Accept all that are willing to accept.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Shifting back to the OP, for discussion...

_I think you made it clear, you have no time for oxygen thieves, non doers, sick ,lame,and lazy._

Back in the Marines we viewed it as 'the sick lame and lazy, deaf, blind and crazy' as folks we didn't have time for, and called someone a 'sick bay Commando' if he got even a day in the squad bay for being injured. In a high stress, performance driven, no pity for the weak environment that occurs. Not my view now...

HOWEVER, that's not 1. a reason to kill a person.

What the OP is about is there's a push where 'everyone can contribute' and 'everyone has a valid opinion'.

Well, no. As I stated, an unwed, uneducated, unemployed mother of X number of child with different daddies has very, very few things of interest to say to me when it comes to financial planning. Now she might have great ideas on stretching dollars and feeding a lot of folks on very little, but she's crap for sound decision making in many areas, especially those involving emotion.

But she doesn't need to be eliminated for being a 'waste of oxygen'...she just isn't the one to get advice from on a whole lot of topics.


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## lanahi (Jun 22, 2009)

SurviveNthrive said:


> *[I'd caution others to read that post, it's about murdering people who become disabled, liabilities in other ways. That's disturbing. If that person was/is an actual service member, that's a serious concern.]*
> 
> I also don't think that any of us have faced TEOTWAWKI because we'd all be aware of that occurring, wouldn't we, by definition. None of us have been there because it hasn't happened since the Fall of the Roman Empire and even then, it wasn't for everyone in the world.
> 
> ...


The operative phrase here was "CHOOSING" to become a liability. If you arn't WILLING to help others in the group with survival, you become a liability who can no longer remain in the group. Even children can contribute in some way to the group. Someone who is injured can still contribute to the group, and if not, you don't kick him out for that. It's the person with the poisonous or uncooperative attitude who has to go or it will destroy the group. I think this kind of attitude will be rare when they realize they can't survive alone, but it can happen.

"It hasn't happened since the Fall of the Roman Empire and even then, it wasn't for everyone in the world." Disagree, it has happened often, although not for everyone in the world. But, your world will be much smaller during such an event: It won't matter what is happening in Europe right then...only the here and now will matter.

I'm not advocating TERMINATING someone for being a liability. I'd think that usually you would tell someone to keep going on their way, just because you can't feed everyone. At first, this would bother most people a great deal, but after the 1000th person has come for a handout, you will learn to emotionally protect yourself. It's what you have to do. If, on the other hand, the person who has become a liability might be a danger in leading others to your group, that might be a different situation that you would have to face when you came to it.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Yes, but we don't want to kill them even for choosing to be worthless, in a subjective opinion or even in a universal view, do we?


Given the theoretical compound with the wolves and the raiders, etc., threatening outside, where you've got the mix of folks, many being told that all of us together are better than a few of us and other such nonsense, how do you get rid of a remorseless, worthless parasitical slacker?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Looks like we've got another spittin' match going on here with this thread.

Time to say goodnight.


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