# Philadelphia Curfew to Prevent Flash Mobs?



## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Philadelphia Institutes Curfew To Stave Off "Flash Mobs"

Thoughts?


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I listened to Mayor Nutter's speech regarding the senseless violence and I liked what he had to say. I don't think it had any impact among the hordes of kids and young adults who participate in flash mob, however.

Implementing a curfew may help sustain a department's resources that are probably already strained. I imagine its easier to pick up curfew violators in dribs and drabs rather than employ greater resources chasing down flash mobs.

Regardless, it is a sad commentary on the state of our society, especially in the larger metro areas, to be compelled to implement a curfew.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I agree completely... it is a terrible commentary on our society that this is in any way necessary. 

There are also numerous responses that equate this to the beginnings of a police state. I don't see that, but I must admit that this would make it a shorter step thereto.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

It's just passing more laws to try to stop people who don't follow the laws to begin with.

Pretty much pointless.


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## mickbear (Apr 9, 2009)

i hate to say it this way but things are going to get a lot worse before they get any better.this type thing is happening all across the country and has been for a while,the media just would'nt address it because they are affraid to be called racist.if it was white people doing this you could not watch TV or listen to the radio for them screaming how terrible it is.this issue has been swept under the rug for far to long.soon or later its going to move for robbing at beating to murder.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

They reported on the radio today that we had one in Maryland, too. A bunch of teens swarmed a 7-11 and stripped it pretty bare.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I lived in a small city inside a ver large city in the early '80s. Think Murder Capital. There was a curfew for anyone under 18. You had to be home or with someone 'of age' past 10 PM.

ETA: It worked at preventing some crime. Young males with no supervision are the worst thing for a neighborhood.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

tenOC said:


> I lived in a small city inside a ver large city in the early '80s. Think Murder Capital. There was a curfew for anyone under 18. You had to be home or with someone 'of age' past 10 PM.
> 
> ETA: It worked at preventing some crime. Young males with no supervision are the worst thing for a neighborhood.


Murder Capital? Baltimore? DC?

Yeah, I agree. There is a group of punk kids that wander my neighborhood at night, two of them being my neighbor's kids.... They haven't done anything violent or larcenous yet, but while I am out running, I periodically find piles of trash and beer bottles which I am sure is them. Teens acting like that will eventually lead to trouble, as they are already showing that they have no regard for the property of others.


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## Bigdog57 (Oct 9, 2008)

One major problem is, these criminals are still being seen as and treated as 'kids'. They aren't anymore.
We in our 'civilized society' think of our young as 'children' while under 18 years of age. Primitive societies are hunting, killing, making war and making babies at as early as twelve.
With the lack of cohesive families, lack of true education, and insistence on the 'entitlement state', these people are now getting back to their primitive roots. They aren't just a mob, they are a loose-knit 'warrior culture' out to brutally loot and pillage from a weakened society they feel no connection to.
It may be too late to put this evil genie back into it's bottle, short of cracking heads and sending the offenders to prison. And that just fosters more troubles..... :dunno:


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

look for it to get worse (feral juvenile gangs, like in Eastern Europe? :dunno

the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 against juvenile offenders getting life sentences for any offense less than 1st degree murder, this will be used to try to release those who have been incarcerated for more than 1/2 their lives & pretty much know nothing except 'prison life' 

these sentences were NOT just handed out 'willy-nilly', the judge looked at the circumstances before handing out such a verdict & now (years, even decades later) that America has become a different culture (of *irresponsibility*), people that might not have even been alive at the time of the original crime think they know best in how to dispense 'justice'. 

crimes & sentences have to be taken in the *cultural context* they occur in, retconning social mores is irresponsible AND dangerous...


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## TrackerRat (Mar 24, 2011)

Where the f*k is Jesse Jackson, oh yeah he only argues one way racism


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

I find the curtailment of anyone's civil rights troubling. I can understand them policing the target group a little more closely. I would prefer that they allow store owners more latitude in using force to defend their property.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Criminal enterprise*

Flash Mobs are a criminal enterprise. They are being used to target businesses and the mob appears instantly and overwhelms the business, shoplifting enmass.

Now I was just a lowly Deputy in Podunk but if I was the Mayor of Philly, I would assemble a swat team and hack into the phone service they are useing to set these things up.

When they showed up at the next one officers would be waiting inside and outside of the business.

This wouldn't have to happen more than a few times . :scratch


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

BillM said:


> Now I was just a lowly Deputy in Podunk but if I was the Mayor of Philly, I would assemble a swat team and hack into the phone service they are useing to set these things up.


Wouldn't hacking into one of those systems itself be illegal also?

Don't get me wrong, they need to do something, but the speed and overwhelming numbers is the problem. You simply can't have a timely response when it's over in 60 seconds. Now if they could legally "predict" one of these then a massive response would indeed help curtail future ones... at least in that area.


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## rflood (Aug 19, 2010)

I also expect to see more of this kind of thing happening and I think come black Friday or around the holidays you will really see an uptick on these kinds of acts. Now that it has happened a few times successfully here in the US with no real repurcussions, more people will take advantage of the opportunity to rob, steal, loot knowing full well they will be able to get away with it.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*All you need*



CulexPipiens said:


> Wouldn't hacking into one of those systems itself be illegal also?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, they need to do something, but the speed and overwhelming numbers is the problem. You simply can't have a timely response when it's over in 60 seconds. Now if they could legally "predict" one of these then a massive response would indeed help curtail future ones... at least in that area.


All you need is the phone of one arrested gang member.

They are texting the time and place for the flash mob to apear. If the Swat team can't beat them to the targeted business and get set up before the mob arrives , shame on them.


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## Radstev (Oct 6, 2011)

Its not just stealing its also beatings with the flash mobs. The philly police chief said not to go shooting the "children" when more citizens started getting CCW permits. If you beat a bystander with brass knuckles you are not a child. For the most part the curfew is just anouther rule for them "children" to break. When did it change from wilding to flash mob? Altho the curfew might protect you if you shoot someones feral "children" attacking after curfew.


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

I lived in a town with a 9pm curfew for those under 16 years of age when I was growing up. The police tended to use their discretion when collecting the kids and taking them home to their parents or to child protection depending on the age, circumstances and number of occurrences.

For some adolescents this was a useful parenting assistance. 

I raised my children in an urban center with no curfew and would dearly have loved the assistance of the police in keeping track of adolescent kids before they were either the perpetrators or the victims of some ill-advised behavior. Up to about age 16 young people do not seem to have sufficient maturity to make good judgement calls consistently even when the parenting has been reasonably positive and involved.


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## ZonaJeep (Mar 24, 2009)

I think an unintended consequence of this law will be the limiting of first amendment rights. Flashmobs happen during the day as well.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

BillM said:


> ...Now I was just a lowly Deputy in Podunk but if I was the Mayor of Philly, I would assemble a swat team and hack into the phone service they are useing to set these things up.
> 
> When they showed up at the next one officers would be waiting inside and outside of the business. ...


I'm taking "classes" at our police department. Basically a multi week program where they tell us all about what they do. It really is quite interesting and I'm learning a lot. I had asked the instructor the other day about if our city, unlikely as it might be, had a flash mob situation and if they had any plans for it. He responded that coincidentally he was reading info on this very topic earlier in the day. The studies show that from the first text messages go out about the planned "event" to when it is over is an average of about 8 minutes. This would mean that even if they had a phone in their possession and got notice, on average they'd get there as it was pretty much over already.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Eight miniuts*

Eight miniuts is a long time.

If Phylly's swat team can't respond in under that time, I may have to give some thought to robbing banks there !

:2thumb:


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I misspoke--er typed. I ran around in a small city inside the Motor City. I actually lived _in_ the Motor City. DC took the crown of Murder Capital during that time. After a couple of school stabbings, security personnel were hired.



SnakeDoc said:


> I would prefer that they allow store owners more latitude in using force to defend their property.


Some schools had an open campus for leaving during lunch--so students could walk to the store or go home to eat. The local stores would only allow 2 students in the store at a time so they could watch them. You had to wait in a long line to get in. I know this isn't what you were speaking of, but that's one thing they did. That, and they installed safety glass to work from inside of. Not all stores had that but the all/late night stores did.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I've been looking for *the mosquito* labelled *kidsbegone* in the U.S. but so far all I've found is this app...

App Store - Kids Be Gone

$1 or free is better than $1500 I suppose

I can hear 20k here Rhintek Incorporated - Loudspeaker Frequency Response Test

but not here Mosquito Ringtones - Download the Mosquito Ring Tone Free

:dunno:


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Ironic, the phones are supplied to them by the sheeple in this nation who actually have to work,they are free phones for the poor. 
So we furnish a free weapon of war against us through these wild little racest barbareans .
I think ,soon they will attack the wrong one who will fight back and then the civil war the gov has been creating for will happen.
Most of these kids are products of welfare moms and dads whos only contribution to society is more criminals .Welfare is not helping them or society as a whole.I have been to these hoods and most have better phones,tv,s and appliances than most people who work do.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

BillM said:


> Eight miniuts is a long time.
> 
> If Phylly's swat team can't respond in under that time, I may have to give some thought to robbing banks there !
> 
> :2thumb:


:goodluck:

Where I live, any "corner" of the city is only about 5 minutes response time for the police... this means an officer already in their car ready to go will be there in, at most, 5 minutes. If the swat team was fully suited up, armed and just waiting at the station in their truck then definitely 8 minutes is more than enough... then again we're too small to have a swat team. We "rent" our swat team from a neighboring city.

In my city, if a situation like this happened you've have 1 officer there probably right as everyone was swarming in and a second arrive as the rest were fleeing the scene a few minutes later finally the rest of the force a few minutes after that.

Obviously we're much smaller than Philly and a large flash mob here would probably be 8-15 individuals, not 100+ like in the major cities.


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