# A hypothetical home defense strategy that could save lots of ammunition.



## Hilltopper518 (Sep 20, 2016)

I enjoy good bourbon. I can't afford the really expensive stuff, but I try to enjoy the best I can afford. However I really do not care for makers mark at all. I would never buy it for myself. 
Stick with me, I'm going somewhere with this... 
I've often thought about how the unprepared would behave after the grocery stores are empty. It's very likely people will band into small groups and seek out homes where people who are surviving are living. I know it's best to keep your head down but some activities are going to inevitably give away a position. I have ammunition saved but who ever really says "yup I've got enough ammo"? But why get into a fight and at best use up some of my ammo and at worst be injured or killed (I am no so cocky as to think I can outshoot everyone). 
Why not take a bottle of makers mark and melt the wax seal, remove the cork, and then add to the recipe a little bit? Hypothetically I could have a small supply of Furadan. I would then drive the cork back into the bottle of Makers, and rewax the seal and place the bottle in a cabinet or somehwere where those wanting to steal my stuff would find. Obviously every person whom I trust who has any likelihood of being in my home would be totally informed. I could even lock the bottle in a suitcase or something if I felt the likelihood of attack was low. 
But if I was threatened by a group who wanted my stuff why not just bug out and appear like I'm fleeing in fear. Rally at my cache/caches and observe my place from a safe distance, let the would be thieves get a little comfortable in the house and let my new Makers Blend do its work...


What do y'all think ?


----------



## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I can think of hundreds of reasons not to do this. The biggest is, why do you think that a home invader would even drink alcohol at all, let alone Makers Mark. 

You are assuming (bad idea) that invaders are even into alcohol at all.

At best all you would do is kill one of them and the rest will make it a life's work to find you and make you pay.

Also, why would you think that these home invaders would even leave your house just because of one person getting sick or dying.

I'm assuming that this would happen WROL because if there was any you would be liable for murder.

I would never do this, too many lose ends.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I totally agree with Tweto. 

What this tells me is that there is this level of thinking out there. Be careful what you take or accept from someone in a SHTF situation.


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

An you would willingly give up your home for others to occupy? You say you have food saved- are you planning to take that with you when you leave your home in the hopes whoever occupies your home likes to drink booze? If you are leaving your home for good do you have a prepared and stocked bug out location?


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

i think that there's one way that it could work.but that idea is a what if situation.what if you have to bug out during a SHTF situation,for your own safety? might wanna get even with the intruders that forced you to bug out to begin with.so if a person has a bottle/case of wine or something else with a cork in it.then they can run a syringe needle through it.and add some liquid poison to it..then shake it to mix well..and maybe add some powdered poison to some powdered food.or something else.in which all of that is kept in a certain safe location.and only gotten out,in a forced bug out situation.


----------



## Hilltopper518 (Sep 20, 2016)

Obviously this is something that would only been done in a SHTF EOTWAWKI situation with a complete breakdown of law and order. 

And if any of you think for one second that the type of people who are going to be the ones leaching off of others wouldn't snatch up that bottle of liquor the moment they see it and guzzle it, you are fortunate enough to never have crossed paths with some of the types of people I have. A few weeks without steady access to their vices, a lot of people will do anything for their fix. 

And as far as being willing to "give up my home for others to occupy"... Yes I would be willing to under these planned and strategic conditions, especially if it means avoiding potentially deadly encounters. I'm sure you all imagine yourselves defending the castles and making a stand in a pile of brass, but how many times can you do that ? And which scenario is more likely to make you lose sleep at night ? The one where you put your cross hairs over someone and squeeze the trigger to end their life or the one where you leave quietly and non confrontationally and a person who was trying to steal from you makes a mistake that gets them what they have coming?


----------



## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I think it would be easier to "buy them off" with your canned goods that didn't seal properly on the front porch. Probably get a higher success rate with hungry folks and you don't have to bug out and hope while you even the odds at least a bit.


----------



## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Way easier to just shoot them


----------



## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

Just because you add carbofuran to the makers mark doesn't mean it will be in a great enough concentration to kill. Also, it may not kill immediately, and so now you have a dying bad guy who can do some damage before he dies. No guarantee everyone in the group will drink it, either. I would be more inclined to booby trap the bottle so there is a lovely explosion when it is picked up. This might take out more than just the one who picked up the bottle, especially if your booby trap was set up to spray, not just explode..........


----------



## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Another option is to just have enough alcohol that they, if they drink, get drunk enough where you could slip in and take care of business more easily. If it wasn't tainted you could still barter it or use it yourself.


----------



## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Put the bourbon away, go to bed, and come up with another plan in the morning.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I like this better. Lay on the floor 10 feet from the door. Shoot the first intruder in the crotch with a shot gun. The rest will probably leave you alone.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

<<--to O.P 

Bad, bad BAD idea bro. just fortify better.


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

I'm not so concerned with saving ammo that I would risk an accidental poisoning.


----------



## Hilltopper518 (Sep 20, 2016)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> I think it would be easier to "buy them off" with your canned goods that didn't seal properly on the front porch. Probably get a higher success rate with hungry folks and you don't have to bug out and hope while you even the odds at least a bit.


HAHAHAHA! Yeah that's it. I bet the father of 3 who is watching his kids starve to death who only has 1 days worth of food and a couple of boxes of shells to his name will be happy to accept your charity and carry on down the desolate road.

A few weeks hard on the road by those inevitably displaced from the crowded cities and suburbs will greatly affect individuals psychologically. You take a happy guy in the suburbs with 2.5 kids who works in some office, then all of a sudden major unrest makes the mobs from the cities fan out and this guy is forced to flee his happy suburban home. Now he and his hungry 2.5 have had to fight and struggle just to stay alive. He will say "it's not fair" over and over to himself... one day he steps over a ridge and looks out across a holler and sees a quant little house with a big garden in the back, chickens and a goat running around, a well with a hand pump...... 
If you think this entitled "victim" won't internally justify doing terrible things to total strangers in exchange for full bellies for his kids and a "new start" then you are terribly naive.

Necessity is the mother of invention, people will do all kinds of outright terrible violence and subtle treachery to their fellow man in order to provide for their own needs.

As to my potential plan to booby trap a liquor bottle.... I still believe I would follow through with it IF our society reached this level of total breakdown simply because in a world like that the risks will be severe enough to warrant it.


----------



## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Hilltopper518 said:


> HAHAHAHA! Yeah that's it. I bet the father of 3 who is watching his kids starve to death who only has 1 days worth of food and a couple of boxes of shells to his name will be happy to accept your charity and carry on down the desolate road.
> 
> A few weeks hard on the road by those inevitably displaced from the crowded cities and suburbs will greatly affect individuals psychologically. You take a happy guy in the suburbs with 2.5 kids who works in some office, then all of a sudden major unrest makes the mobs from the cities fan out and this guy is forced to flee his happy suburban home. Now he and his hungry 2.5 have had to fight and struggle just to stay alive. He will say "it's not fair" over and over to himself... one day he steps over a ridge and looks out across a holler and sees a quant little house with a big garden in the back, chickens and a goat running around, a well with a hand pump......
> If you think this entitled "victim" won't internally justify doing terrible things to total strangers in exchange for full bellies for his kids and a "new start" then you are terribly naive.
> ...


The point of giving improperly sealed canned foods is that there is botulism growing in it. Botulism has the added benefit of paralyzing it's victims before certain death. I wasn't suggesting a buy off that would end happily for all concerned. With a group of hungry armed deviants at your door it might be a more effective way to accomplish your goal in a post rule of law scenario.


----------



## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

HT there is a major flaw in your plan. A Booby Trap is a device used to deter access to your position, in this case your Home. With your plan, you have just invited trouble right to your Door Step, and possibly into your Home. A better plan would be to completely deny access to your property, especially your Home, by placing Booby Traps in the areas that would provide access to your property. Other ways to deny access is to use "Tangle Foot" or Razor Wire and then use Booby Traps if they were to get past those obstacles. There are also literally Hundreds of Traps that are simply made, such as Punji Pits, Log Falls, Bow Traps, Spring Traps, and Snares that would make anyone, even Professionals, think twice about approaching your place, let alone into your Home.


----------



## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

If you are attacked.. playing shell games may at worst derail your opportunity to actually mount an effective defense and at best allows badguys full control of your dwelling in hopes that they simply get some alcohol and leave. Your whole plan is centered on the badguys being inside your home.. I would construct a plan that is focused on keeping them out and maintaining control of my home. There is nothing wrong with a secondary plan if things should fail but my backup plan is speedily putting feet to pavement and getting the heck out of dodge.


----------



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Hilltopper518 said:


> HAHAHAHA! Yeah that's it. I bet the father of 3 who is watching his kids starve to death who only has 1 days worth of food and a couple of boxes of shells to his name will be happy to accept your charity and carry on down the desolate road.
> 
> A few weeks hard on the road by those inevitably displaced from the crowded cities and suburbs will greatly affect individuals psychologically. You take a happy guy in the suburbs with 2.5 kids who works in some office, then all of a sudden major unrest makes the mobs from the cities fan out and this guy is forced to flee his happy suburban home. Now he and his hungry 2.5 have had to fight and struggle just to stay alive. He will say "it's not fair" over and over to himself... one day he steps over a ridge and looks out across a holler and sees a quant little house with a big garden in the back, chickens and a goat running around, a well with a hand pump......
> If you think this entitled "victim" won't internally justify doing terrible things to total strangers in exchange for full bellies for his kids and a "new start" then you are terribly naive.
> ...


Here is the flaw with your original post and this one... In your original post you are talking about booby trapping a bottle of liquor which no parent in their right mind would give to a child even after SHTF. In this post you talk about the dad with starving kids. How is a bottle of liquor going to appease that dad with the starving kids?! You really think he is going to get drunk while his kids starve?! He would take the bottle and use it to trade for food only to be chased down by the group he traded it to when someone dies or gets very ill from the booby trapped liquor. Now those kids will not have a dad when the group catch up and kill him. Smart.

You also have no idea about home food storage and preservation. Improperly sealed home canned food will have bacteria growth that can kill and/or make a person very ill. Offering this tainted food as a 'pay off' works better than the liquor because they may leave thinking they can come back for more later but will either die or be too ill to move. Plus you don't run the risk of getting caught with poisoned alcohol before SHTF. If improperly sealed canned goods are found in your home no one is going to think you were planning to kill someone but that you suck at food preservation.


----------



## tc556guy (Apr 28, 2011)

Hilltopper518 said:


> But if I was threatened by a group who wanted my stuff why not just bug out and appear like I'm fleeing in fear. Rally at my cache/caches and observe my place from a safe distance, let the would be thieves get a little comfortable in the house and let my new Makers Blend do its work...
> 
> What do y'all think ?


I think you're just as likely to sit there watching them loot your place and then they burn it as they leave to deny you anything they left behind.


----------



## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Buy a lot of the cheap stuff then a smaller amount of the good stuff. Start by drinking the good stuff, once you get to the point it does not matter then switch to the bad stuff.

In high school we would get a half rack of Strohs and a case of Rhinelander, by the time we were done with the Strohs it no longer mattered that we were drinking Rhinelander.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Hilltopper518 said:


> ...Why not take a bottle of makers mark...and then add to the recipe a little bit? Hypothetically I could have a small supply of Furadan...What do y'all think ?


You been severely injured and in a lot of pain . As they hold you down to administer first aid, one of them remembers watching a western TV show, they gave whiskey to a patient to deaden the pain! They reach for the bottle of Makers Mark on your shelf.

Your eyes bug out as your scream! The more you fight the hard they hold you down. Your poisoned bottle of whiskey is being brought closer and closer to your lips as your friends try to comfort you...

...he was a good partner...we got the bleeding stopped in time and infection didn't have time to set in...the strain must have been too hard for his heart...I GET HIS BOOTS!!!!


----------



## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

TheLazyL said:


> You been severely injured and in a lot of pain . As they hold you down to administer first aid, one of them remembers watching a western TV show, they gave whiskey to a patient to deaden the pain! They reach for the bottle of Makers Mark on your shelf.
> 
> Your eyes bug out as your scream! The more you fight the hard they hold you down. Your poisoned bottle of whiskey is being brought closer and closer to your lips as your friends try to comfort you...
> 
> ...he was a good partner...we got the bleeding stopped in time and infection didn't have time to set in...the strain must have been too hard for his heart...I GET HIS BOOTS!!!!


TheLazyL, If god loves a person with a good sense of humor, you are truly blessed. :rofl:


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> TheLazyL, If god loves a person with a good sense of humor, you are truly blessed. :rofl:


I know God has a sense of humor because He created me!


----------



## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

Hilltopper518, 

Your idea makes me thing of project Eldest Son from the Vietnam war. Worth a wiki if you haven't heard of it. And I can see where it would work, if you had to un-ass the AO for a fallback position, waiting patiently to return. (Maybe install listening or recording devices to gather intel? Too much?) Sometimes we have to fade away to fight another day. And if things are so bad that we're killing each other over cat food, I'm pretty sure that a little liquid comfort would be welcome. 

But the caution is worth paying attention to. Probably why I haven't completed my circumvallation of Castle Griff yet - our preps still have to be useful during non-SHTF circumstances to be justifiable, and we sure don't want any innocents to stumble into the beaten zone while delivering the Sunday paper, do we?


----------



## Crusader1949 (Oct 31, 2016)

In combat, there are no rules... Survival? It must be asymmetric in nature, for you must always act if you are outgunned, outnumbered, but not helpless... You must know *everything* about your enemy, to get inside their OODA Loop, mess with their minds, and whenever possible, be proactive. The post by the OP does show cautious initiative, of an almost passive nature. True, it will not kill or incapacitate all of your adversaries. It may remove some of your enemies. You're not the Welcome Wagon. You want to survive, and therefore, those that would enslave or kill you, deserve whatever response you can make... Ambuscade, IEDs, punji pits, Malayan gates, foo-gas, whatever it takes... During the beginnings of WW II in Ethiopia, starving, wild animals were let loose into Italian military camps. Women deliberately carrying STDs, went into the Italians, infecting many. War is not a hobby, nor is it the intended end of all things. "Whatever it takes," is up to you... Never surrender, never concede, and never quit... If you do, your enemy wins, and most likely, you'll be in chains, or dead... Don't give them the satisfaction...


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Crusader1949 said:


> In combat, there are no rules... Survival? It must be asymmetric in nature, for you must always act if you are outgunned, outnumbered, but not helpless... You must know *everything* about your enemy, to get inside their OODA Loop, mess with their minds, and whenever possible, be proactive. The post by the OP does show cautious initiative, of an almost passive nature. True, it will not kill or incapacitate all of your adversaries. It may remove some of your enemies. You're not the Welcome Wagon. You want to survive, and therefore, those that would enslave or kill you, deserve whatever response you can make... Ambuscade, IEDs, punji pits, Malayan gates, foo-gas, whatever it takes... During the beginnings of WW II in Ethiopia, starving, wild animals were let loose into Italian military camps. Women deliberately carrying STDs, went into the Italians, infecting many. War is not a hobby, nor is it the intended end of all things. "Whatever it takes," is up to you... Never surrender, never concede, and never quit... If you do, your enemy wins, and most likely, you'll be in chains, or dead... Don't give them the satisfaction...


 Welcome Crusader :wave: I'm the sites illiterate genius.

I figure a few covered holes would be nice but nobody:wave: here is able to dig them.

We bought bow and arrors a few years ago, never took them out of package.


----------

