# 33's or 35's on tires?



## Dakine

If you were going to put new tires on your Suburban, which size would go with?

1 inch of ground clearance will cost me overall something like $40-45 total and new tires is not optional so I might as well pick one now and stick with it. I also can not stay with what I have as it was purchased which is 35's in back and 33's in front because that starts doing funky stuff to tire warranties and such.

I'd LOVE to swap the rears to the front and see if anything rubs riding on the 35's but I cant because it's got those squiggly wheel locking lugnuts and I have no key for them, so Discount is going to bust those little buggers off for me.

So which would you go with? why would you take one over the other?


----------



## Coastal

What ring and pinion gears are in the suburban? If its say, 4.10's or lower (numerically higher) I'd go 35's. Otherwise 33's might be better for overall drivability. 

Sometimes you can get those wheel nuts off with a sacrificial socket, find one that is too small to go on and hammer it on with a BFH, then carefully try to loosen it. Or you could weld a nut on to it if you can weld.


----------



## Dakine

Coastal said:


> What ring and pinion gears are in the suburban? If its say, 4.10's or lower (numerically higher) I'd go 35's. Otherwise 33's might be better for overall drivability.
> 
> Sometimes you can get those wheel nuts off with a sacrificial socket, find one that is too small to go on and hammer it on with a BFH, then carefully try to loosen it. Or you could weld a nut on to it if you can weld.


I just bought it and dont know about about the gear ratio unfortunately 

I also can not weld, it's pretty high on the to-do list, but dropping $900 this paycheck on the tires is higher, that at least makes this useable if SHTF next week, as-is, those tires wouldn't get me out of my county much less to BOL.


----------



## Tirediron

If it drives down the road OK with the 35s on the back , go with 35s, everybody is hell bent on gearing the crap out of things, I ran 39 inch tires with 3.73 gears in a K5 with a miled up 350, sometime they were a little tall, but at least the engine wasn't screaming going down the highway. You will most likely have to trim the bottom rear of the front fenders to keep them from rubbing a bit at full crank. 35 s are by no means a huge tire, 
I haven't talked to too many guys who say I wish I bought smaller tires.
What engine and transmission combination do you have.??? If the sub still has the stock aluminum transfer case it has lots of reduction in low range, lots of guys got away with 35s with 3.08 gears (in low range, hi range is a bit tall)


----------



## Dakine

Tirediron said:


> If it drives down the road OK with the 35s on the back , go with 35s, everybody is hell bent on gearing the crap out of things, I ran 39 inch tires with 3.73 gears in a K5 with a miled up 350, sometime they were a little tall, but at least the engine wasn't screaming going down the highway. You will most likely have to trim the bottom rear of the front fenders to keep them from rubbing a bit at full crank. 35 s are by no means a huge tire,
> I haven't talked to too many guys who say I wish I bought smaller tires.
> What engine and transmission combination do you have.??? If the sub still has the stock aluminum transfer case it has lots of reduction in low range, lots of guys got away with 35s with 3.08 gears (in low range, hi range is a bit tall)


it has a 350 engine and I was told by the seller it has 700R tranny, he acted like that meant something, I personally do not know. What he knows (told me) for fact I have no idea, and what is really in that rig, I have no idea... 

how would I find out things like what transmission, what front end, what rear end, what... whatever?????????? how do I go check that so I can tell people who are willing to help, give me the help i need? 

Are there instant tell tale clues and I know right away, or do I need to crawl under it and take a tape measure with me to compare things or ??

I'll bust knuckles all day long and try to digest what you guys tell me, I'm grateful for your knowledge and assistance, but I need to make sure I can talk coherently about the truck in the first place since there are so many variables


----------



## camo2460

Dakine said:


> it has a 350 engine and I was told by the seller it has 700R tranny, he acted like that meant something, I personally do not know. What he knows (told me) for fact I have no idea, and what is really in that rig, I have no idea...
> 
> how would I find out things like what transmission, what front end, what rear end, what... whatever?????????? how do I go check that so I can tell people who are willing to help, give me the help i need?
> 
> Are there instant tell tale clues and I know right away, or do I need to crawl under it and take a tape measure with me to compare things or ??
> 
> I'll bust knuckles all day long and try to digest what you guys tell me, I'm grateful for your knowledge and assistance, but I need to make sure I can talk coherently about the truck in the first place since there are so many variables


I don't know much about mechanics, but I'll bet that if you googled the specs on your make, model and year you could find out the info you need.


----------



## Tirediron

Trans is probably a 700R4 , (Turbohydramatic 700series rear drive 4speed)
if the shifter indicator on the column has 4 forward positions that is a good indicator. it will also have a cable going from the throttle valve at the carb to the right (passenger) side of the transmission pan flange.

The gear ratio is pretty easy jack up one rear wheel, mark a spot on the tire that you can see while also looking at the rear axle driveshaft input yoke, make a mark on the yolk at a reference point on the housing, anywhere you can see it well. now slowly turn the jacked up tire forward, for 2 full revolutions while keeping track of how many times the mark on the driveshaft goes past it's reference. you will probably find that it goes either 3 and just under 1/2 (3.42 to 1 ratio) or 3 and 3/4 (3.73 to 1) 

Do this for the front axle too, to make sure that the front axle is the same ratio as the rear, (miss match happens more than you would guess)


----------



## OldCootHillbilly

Personally, I'd go with the 33's. Gives ya more clearance in them fenders. Ya get inta some serious stuff an them tires gotta fit in them wheel wells er there gonna get cut up er bust up them fenders. Ifin ya wanna go with the bigger tires ya can cut out the fenders some an get flares ta put on it.


----------



## mojo4

I say go with 33s. They are cheaper, easier to find and can go anywhere a truck with 35s can go. Plus they give you better mileage and that always counts extra. And technically you only are 1 inch shorter than you would be with 35s and I highly doubt your ability to bug out will be hindered by lack of 1 inch. For my Yukon xl I bought nitto terra grapplers. I give that tire 4 thumbs up!!! Smooth great ride on the highway without the highway noise you get on mudders and it still has lots of grip off road. Never been stuck and I have been in serious mush elk hunting in the Rockies. Plus it has little lightning looking designs on the sidewalls. When I shine them up it looks awesome!! And that why we buy trucks. Cause chicks dig em!!!

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Survival Forum mobile app


----------



## goshengirl

mojo4 said:


> And that why we buy trucks. Cause chicks dig em!!!


Damn straight! :2thumb:


----------



## Tirediron

mojo4 said:


> I say go with 33s. They are cheaper, easier to find and can go anywhere a truck with 35s can go. Plus they give you better mileage and that always counts extra. And technically you only are 1 inch shorter than you would be with 35s and I highly doubt your ability to bug out will be hindered by lack of 1 inch. For my Yukon xl I bought nitto terra grapplers. I give that tire 4 thumbs up!!! Smooth great ride on the highway without the highway noise you get on mudders and it still has lots of grip off road. Never been stuck and I have been in serious mush elk hunting in the Rockies. Plus it has little lightning looking designs on the sidewalls. When I shine them up it looks awesome!! And that why we buy trucks. Cause chicks dig em!!!
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Survival Forum mobile app


BULL$HIT : diff clearance and rolling radius are huge when it comes to off road, I have won the bet more times when some guy with smaller tires told me he could go where my big tired truck would, plus the hour wait for me to pull them out usually stopped the "I can go anywhere you can BS"


----------



## Coastal

Tirediron said:


> If it drives down the road OK with the 35s on the back , go with 35s, everybody is hell bent on gearing the crap out of things, I ran 39 inch tires with 3.73 gears in a K5 with a miled up 350, sometime they were a little tall,


Of course the Albertan doesn't need gearing, that might work out in your wheat fields, but we have mountains and stuff, so gearing is important.


----------



## Tirediron

Said the sea level dweller to the rancher who lives on a 4200 ft ridge, use the damn transmission Lad artydance:


----------



## Coastal

Hahaha :canflag:


----------



## cowboyhermit

Without getting into the whole size debate (don't want to make you guys feel bad) I would just say that there is no guarantee of getting better mileage with the smaller tires. Depending on the vehicle and the particular tires, bigger wheels can sometimes improve highway mileage by giving you a higher top gear. They can also give you a bigger footprint on the ground and are better able to handle ruts and obstacles. Granted, the difference here is not that great but it's worthwhile to remember that while the radius doesn't change much, the circumference will change much more.


----------



## mojo4

Tirediron said:


> BULL$HIT : diff clearance and rolling radius are huge when it comes to off road, I have won the bet more times when some guy with smaller tires told me he could go where my big tired truck would, plus the hour wait for me to pull them out usually stopped the "I can go anywhere you can BS"


Challenge accepted!! If I keep up steaks n beer at the mountain top are on you. If I don't I will buy you a whiskey and a greasy burger at the diner next to the repair shop!!


----------



## Boomy

My '98 Tahoe has 32's on it and I've still got plenty of room
Each tire size increase will affect you more on the get up and go than anything else. On my lst XJ Iwent from 215x15's to 31's. Not as zippy but rolled over nasty stuff better. My current JK cam with 32's and I upgraded to 33's. Once again it made it a tad more sluggish on acceleration but smoother on the rough stuff. The difference between the 31's and 32's really suprised me. Haven't been out to the old hunting grounds in a while so I can't make the call on the 33's


----------



## NaeKid

Dakine said:


> If you were going to put new tires on your Suburban, which size would go with?
> 
> 1 inch of ground clearance will cost me overall something like $40-45 total and new tires is not optional so I might as well pick one now and stick with it. I also can not stay with what I have as it was purchased which is 35's in back and 33's in front because that starts doing funky stuff to tire warranties and such.
> 
> I'd LOVE to swap the rears to the front and see if anything rubs riding on the 35's but I cant because it's got those squiggly wheel locking lugnuts and I have no key for them, so Discount is going to bust those little buggers off for me.
> 
> So which would you go with? why would you take one over the other?


No-one has asked - but - where are the pictures of the current setup?

Sometimes a little bit of body-work will give you the clearance you need, especially if there is already a lift-kit installed in the beastie. If it is already lifted to fit 35" tires, then I would say it is a non-issue - go with the 35's and call it good.

Many Chevy trucks come with 3.73 gears in the axles - I have found that those gears in my Jeep with 38" tires does quite well. Right now I have a set of 35" tires on it, did some trails and got temporairly immobilized in places that my 38's took me though with no issues.

So - as TiredIron says - go bigger if there is a choice ... you probably will never regret it, that is - till you try to drive into an underground parking lot .. :gaah:


----------



## Geek999

You can get the lugnut unlocking tool if you are interested. Just do an internet search and you'll find them. All the thieves already own them so I'd lose the locking lugnuts as they are a PITA.


----------



## Coastal

I put 40's on my f450, it helped out a lot with high RPM on the highways. 4.88 gears will do that.


----------



## Dakine

NaeKid said:


> No-one has asked - but - where are the pictures of the current setup?
> 
> Sometimes a little bit of body-work will give you the clearance you need, especially if there is already a lift-kit installed in the beastie. If it is already lifted to fit 35" tires, then I would say it is a non-issue - go with the 35's and call it good.
> 
> Many Chevy trucks come with 3.73 gears in the axles - I have found that those gears in my Jeep with 38" tires does quite well. Right now I have a set of 35" tires on it, did some trails and got temporairly immobilized in places that my 38's took me though with no issues.
> 
> So - as TiredIron says - go bigger if there is a choice ... you probably will never regret it, that is - till you try to drive into an underground parking lot .. :gaah:


You had me scratching my head, I was thinking... but I posted a pic! it was on my thread when I first bought it and put up a pic. If I can stop buying silver, Glocks and ammo for a day or two, maybe I'll have some money to invest in the new tires 

This pic shows 35's in back and 33's in front. I don't know if I'm convinced it was "because 35's in front would rub" due to the fact that there's 3 different brands for the 4 tires lol. I think he was just keeping it rolling at that point.

With very little tread remaining on any of the tires, there's 4+ inches from tire to nearest fender contact both front and back, so call it 9 inches total clearance... So I'm going to lose 2 inches to 33 -> 35, does 35 inch tire count from the top of the tread which will wear away or is that the baseline and the tread is over&above that? I could lose as much as 3-3.5 inches of clearance depending on how aggressive and deep the tread patterns are.

That measurement was as it sits in the photo, so basically full forward.


----------



## Tirediron

the clearance problem happens when the front wheels are turned, the tire usually hits where the fender lip wraps into the inside of the fender, it is very common for this area to be trimmed with a thin grinder disc to give the necessary clearance. the 35" tire will only be about 34.5" in diameter, but only half of that (radius) becomes the clearance problem, a new 35" tire should only have 1" less clearance than a new 33" tire of the same brand.


----------



## Turtle

Nice looking rig! 

Personally, I would go with 33s for all the reasons already mentioned. My last LJ had 31s on it when I bought it, I immediately went to 32s, and I was completely happy with that setup. The JK before that one came with 32s and I replaced them with 33s. 

Also, keep in mind that a "33" from one manufacturer can be the same height as a "31" from another. I've seen it happen. 

Check out a company called "TreadWright". They do retreads, but using the same manufacturing process as brand new tires; they basically just recycle the sidewalls. I had them on my LJ for about 30k miles and they never had a single problem, for half the price of new BFG mud terrains. All four on my LJ was under 500 bucks. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


----------



## Boomy

Also look on eBay. My 33's on my JK are factory blemished Coopers. Best price that I could find by far.


----------



## zombieresponder

Tirediron said:


> If it drives down the road OK with the 35s on the back , go with 35s, everybody is hell bent on gearing the crap out of things, I ran 39 inch tires with 3.73 gears in a K5 with a miled up 350, sometime they were a little tall, but at least the engine wasn't screaming going down the highway. You will most likely have to trim the bottom rear of the front fenders to keep them from rubbing a bit at full crank. 35 s are by no means a huge tire,
> I haven't talked to too many guys who say I wish I bought smaller tires.
> What engine and transmission combination do you have.??? If the sub still has the stock aluminum transfer case it has lots of reduction in low range, lots of guys got away with 35s with 3.08 gears (in low range, hi range is a bit tall)


My K5 has 31's on it and had the NP208/700R4 combo. It was woefully underpowered with the 3.08 gears. 3.73's wouldn't have been a huge improvement. If you had 39's and 3.73's, you had a gutless wonder, no matter what engine was in it.



Dakine said:


> it has a 350 engine and I was told by the seller it has 700R tranny, he acted like that meant something, I personally do not know. What he knows (told me) for fact I have no idea, and what is really in that rig, I have no idea...
> 
> how would I find out things like what transmission, what front end, what rear end, what... whatever?????????? how do I go check that so I can tell people who are willing to help, give me the help i need?
> 
> Are there instant tell tale clues and I know right away, or do I need to crawl under it and take a tape measure with me to compare things or ??
> 
> I'll bust knuckles all day long and try to digest what you guys tell me, I'm grateful for your knowledge and assistance, but I need to make sure I can talk coherently about the truck in the first place since there are so many variables


The 700R4 is a four speed auto trans, with fourth gear as an overdrive. It has a lower first gear ratio than other GM automatics of the time. The NP208 transfer case which was used in most of the 80's GM 4x4's also has slightly lower gearing in low range. Most likely you have a GM corporate 10 bolt front axle and the same in the rear. It's possible that you have a Dana 44 up front, but unlikely. Google something like "GM axle pictures" or "Dana axle pictures" and you'll figure it out pretty quick.

To get a rough idea of axle gearing, jack up one end of the vehicle and support it on jackstands. Make a chalk mark on one of the tires, and another mark on the driveshaft. Spin the tire and note how many times the driveshaft turns for one revolution of the tire. If the driveshaft makes three revolutions for each revolution of the tire, you have 3.08 gears.

Just now caught that it was a 3/4 ton 'Burb. You _might_ have a Dana 44 up front with a GM 14 bolt out back. If you do have a 14 bolt, you should check to see if it is the full float or semi float version. These are really easy to convert to disc brakes if you want, and the last time I checked, a Detroit locker for a 14 bolt was under $400.

I'd put a winch on it before spending a ton of money on tires. The tires might get you places you couldn't get to otherwise, but they'll also mean you're further in when you do get stuck.


----------



## Tirediron

zombieresponder said:


> My K5 has 31's on it and had the NP208/700R4 combo. It was woefully underpowered with the 3.08 gears. 3.73's wouldn't have been a huge improvement. If you had 39's and 3.73's, you had a gutless wonder, no matter what engine was in it.
> 
> The 700R4 is a four speed auto trans, with fourth gear as an overdrive. It has a lower first gear ratio than other GM automatics of the time. The NP208 transfer case which was used in most of the 80's GM 4x4's also has slightly lower gearing in low range. Most likely you have a GM corporate 10 bolt front axle and the same in the rear. It's possible that you have a Dana 44 up front, but unlikely. Google something like "GM axle pictures" or "Dana axle pictures" and you'll figure it out pretty quick.
> 
> To get a rough idea of axle gearing, jack up one end of the vehicle and support it on jackstands. Make a chalk mark on one of the tires, and another mark on the driveshaft. Spin the tire and note how many times the driveshaft turns for one revolution of the tire. If the driveshaft makes three revolutions for each revolution of the tire, you have 3.08 gears.
> 
> Just now caught that it was a 3/4 ton 'Burb. You _might_ have a Dana 44 up front with a GM 14 bolt out back. If you do have a 14 bolt, you should check to see if it is the full float or semi float version. These are really easy to convert to disc brakes if you want, and the last time I checked, a Detroit locker for a 14 bolt was under $400.
> 
> I'd put a winch on it before spending a ton of money on tires. The tires might get you places you couldn't get to otherwise, but they'll also mean you're further in when you do get stuck.


Just cause you can't use your transmission it isn't my fault,
208 s are lots deeper than 205s, Dakine is building a BOV not a daily driver as far as I know, so not being able to use OD doing down the highway probably won't be a big concern. And if you jack up a vehicle with an open diff, it is almost impossible to get a ratio count with both tires in the air, one tire and 2 rotations gives a pretty accurate count. I also thing that Dakines truck has 6 bolt axles under it, Could be wrong, but the pic seems to look like that, which if year correct would be 10 bolt corporate front and back,


----------



## cowboyhermit

Lol, figured trucks and tires would be a contentious issue
Tirediron is right about the transmission, tires will only affect starting from a dead start (bottom of first gear) and your gear ratio in top gear. Gear ratio in the rest is the completely compensatable, just upshift a little later. Only other factor is possibly increased weight of tire, shouldn't be that significant in most cases.


----------



## NaeKid

Dakine said:


> You had me scratching my head, I was thinking... but I posted a pic! it was on my thread when I first bought it and put up a pic. If I can stop buying silver, Glocks and ammo for a day or two, maybe I'll have some money to invest in the new tires
> 
> This pic shows 35's in back and 33's in front. I don't know if I'm convinced it was "because 35's in front would rub" due to the fact that there's 3 different brands for the 4 tires lol. I think he was just keeping it rolling at that point.
> 
> With very little tread remaining on any of the tires, there's 4+ inches from tire to nearest fender contact both front and back, so call it 9 inches total clearance... So I'm going to lose 2 inches to 33 -> 35, does 35 inch tire count from the top of the tread which will wear away or is that the baseline and the tread is over&above that? I could lose as much as 3-3.5 inches of clearance depending on how aggressive and deep the tread patterns are.
> 
> That measurement was as it sits in the photo, so basically full forward.


Nice picture.

It is known that 33s fit on the front - but - with a little trimming you know that 35s would be just fine and with room to spare. Cover the trimming with some Bushwacker flares (Front: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUSHWACKER-...res-for-1981-1991-Chevy-GMC-C-K-/140909722269 and then rear: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BUSHWACKER-...nder-Flares-1973-1987-Chevy-C-K-/400398611989 ) and you can have lots of fun with that beastie!


----------



## Dakine

Thank you all for the replies!

I'd like to clarify what this rig is for me. 

It's not a daily driver, but since I only commute about 10 miles to work, and I get a price break discount on my insurance with odometer check ins, I will be splitting the commutes between the current F150 and this rig. If i get 10% less mpg because I opt for bigger tires, I'm good with that. I'm using that to hedge my bets on insurance, and it forces me to keep both vehicles operational instead of so many "It will be my BOV... one day"

Also, I forget who brought it up, but tires are *NOT* optional. When you're doing the Lincoln head penny test on wear... you're supposed to put that in the tread, *NOT* the dry-rot cracks on the SIDEWALL!!! I have no choice, I will, with a forced smile on my face, enjoy the dropping of 9 large on a tire shop... I knew this buying it, it's just how it is...


----------



## Shammua

I would wholly recommend the Mickey Thompson Baja Claw TTC in the 35". For your Suburban if your still stock you will need a lift to give proper CLEARENCE and avoid rubbing issue. Plus it will give you better articulation and being high means deep water crossing. 
My Super Duty with 4" lift and 35" tires can clear 4' of water before it reaches my intake.


----------

