# Deep well hand pumps



## islandraider

Hi all. I want to add a hand pump to my well setup. We live in a on an island in a pretty remote area. Power outages are not frequent, but can last a week or two. I also would like a long-term solution if the juice is shut off. Our well: 75' to static water and well is about 180' total. We have an electric submersible that works fine when the electricity is working. Based on my initial research, it seems that there are about 4 options:

Simple pump: http://www.simplepump.com/. Price would be around $1800.
Bison pump: http://www.bisonpumps.com/. Price would likely still be around $1800
Flojak pump: http://flojak.com/flojak-store/stain...-well-pump-kit. Price would be around $900
Solar Power Systems pump: http://www.protectmypower.com/hand-water-pump.html. Price would be around $800.

So far it has been very difficult to get unbiased reviews of these products. I was hoping some folks here might be able to provide some information to help me evaluate the quality of the different hand pump options for my relatively deep well. I would like something that is not going to need a lot of maintenance and is going to work for many years. Any comments, information or help is much appreciated.

Thank you!!
IR


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## Well_Driller

I would say go with the bison pump. The only thing i'm not so sure about with the simple pumps are the fiberglass pump rods they use. Bison uses stainless steel which I prefer to use for pump rods in hand pumps. Most of the pumps we install are the baker monitor pumps but I have installed an all stainless steel pump head that is very similar to the bison pump head. Basically the same thing but made locally. Be sure to get a few extra sets of pump leathers. They can also be made easy enough with basic tools if you have leather available. They are not cheap but they are built to last. You can't put a price on water. I have people that spend way more on electric pumping systems and they don't think twice about it, yet when it comes to a good hand pump they want to go cheap on it.


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## dahur

I just ran across this site:
http://www.protectmypower.com/hand-water-pump.html

I'm pretty interested as I've been wanting to do this for quite a while.
This simple hand pump is all stainless, including stainless connecting rods, not fiberglass like in the other one. The price is half what Simple hand Pump sells theirs for.
They advertise not having seals that wear out.

I don't think they have a solar option for the pump like "Simple Hand Pump" does. I sent a e-mail to ask them about this.

The example they have to charge your home pressure tank, is to hand fill a storage tank. Then use a 12v DC motor like used in a motor home to charge the system pressure tank. They say this part of it can easily be solarized.

I think this is the best deal for hand pumping from deep wells I've seen so far unless I'm missing something.


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## LincTex

dahur said:


> I just ran across this site:
> http://www.protectmypower.com/hand-water-pump.html


It would be really easy to adapt a right-angle worm gear "RV slide out motor" to run this pump if you get tired of pumping by hand.












dahur said:


> The example they have to charge your home pressure tank, is to hand fill a storage tank. Then use a 12v DC motor like used in a motor home.


I agree, keep the systems separate. Get the water to the surface first, pressurize it later.


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## dahur

LincTex said:


> It would be really easy to adapt a right-angle worm gear "RV slide out motor" to run this pump if you get tired of pumping by hand.
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> I agree, keep the systems separate. Get the water to the surface first, pressurize it later.


Yeah, I'll have to research that. Right now I'm checking out prices of poly water tanks. Found a doorway one that's 400 [email protected] Plastc-Mart.com


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## Kenny78

Hey lifted, I like the idea but are those motors rated for continuous use? If not, I doubt it would last. However, if you find a motor with that rating( or this one) I would be interested. That and a Properly designed scotch yoke and your set. The idea is similar to simple pumps Ada pump. Another idea is antique pump heads and rebuilt or new cylinders. It is the approach I am pursuing.


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## LincTex

It is just a concept idea, a person could come up with something on their own.

An old Monitor pump jack is also a really good starting point


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## Well_Driller

To me pressurized water is not that big a deal. Really we can pump what we need by hand. I am going to locate a pump jack or build one in case I do have the need to pump that much water. I really like to keep it basic and simple. Really, unless you have a wood fired hot water heater, you're not going to be taking a hot shower.... Really comes down to how much you want to spend. If you want to keep it simple a plain old good deep well pump is fine. If you have wind, then you can install a wind mill. If you want solar you can do that too. There are a lot of options to power a hand pump with. The simpler it is the less there is to go wrong.


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## dahur

Well_Driller said:


> To me pressurized water is not that big a deal. Really we can pump what we need by hand. I am going to locate a pump jack or build one in case I do have the need to pump that much water. I really like to keep it basic and simple. Really, unless you have a wood fired hot water heater, you're not going to be taking a hot shower.... Really comes down to how much you want to spend. If you want to keep it simple a plain old good deep well pump is fine. If you have wind, then you can install a wind mill. If you want solar you can do that too. There are a lot of options to power a hand pump with. The simpler it is the less there is to go wrong.


What do you think of the simple hand pump I linked that uses all stainless sucker rods, and no seals in the pump head. There is a seal up in the top, that may have to be replaced, and they supply spares, and said it is a common washer you can get anywhere. I like you don't have to remove the entire pump to do this, and they said it only takes a couple minutes. 
Total price delivered for 100' well is around $800.


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## Tirediron

Did you notice that while the lever head is a better design, they did not show how they could pump water up 100' with a pump with no seals, maybe they have something new, but it give me the some thing for nothing feeling.:dunno:


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## LincTex

Kenny78 said:


> However, if you find a motor with that rating (continuous) I would be interested. That and a Properly designed scotch yoke and your set.


For small pumps, a windshield wiper motor is indeed continuous use (just ask those folks in Seattle!!) but I don't know how large a piston they could lift. I am sure there are other alternatives as well.


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## dahur

I just talked to guy that sells the simple hand pump I've been looking at. Couple things I found out is I'm looking at about 1 GPM at my static water depth (70 ft), and the pump head is 20 ft below that. It doesn't use stainless steel rods like I thought but stainless steel line. He said this dramatically reduces the weight. When I questioned him about the piston time to return to the bottom, he said it you count "one" on the down stroke, and "fifty" on the up stroke. So I guess twice as long. He said his can't compete with the GPM of the "Simple hand Pump" companies pump. The trade off is not having to replace the seals, and easier pumping. He said the others will pump higher GPM out of the box, but as the seals wear that will reduce. 
Maybe I'll investigate strictly solar pumps, but I don't know if they would fit side by side with my existing pump.


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## LincTex

dahur said:


> The trade off is not having to replace the seals, and easier pumping. He said the others will pump higher GPM out of the box, but as the seals wear that will reduce.


It would be nice to see what the actual differences are. 
A picture is worth 1000 words, ya know


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## Well_Driller

dahur said:


> What do you think of the simple hand pump I linked that uses all stainless sucker rods, and no seals in the pump head. There is a seal up in the top, that may have to be replaced, and they supply spares, and said it is a common washer you can get anywhere. I like you don't have to remove the entire pump to do this, and they said it only takes a couple minutes.
> Total price delivered for 100' well is around $800.


I took a look at it, they don't explain why their cylinder is better, but the pump cylinder still has to go down into the well. I really could not comment on how well their pump cylinder will work since i've never seen one. I'd have to have one to look at to say whether or not it would be good, but to answer your question my best guess is the cylinder is built similar to an oil well pump cylinder. These don't have seals but the plunger is machined to very close tolerances and polished. This means it can wear and grit and sand will be very hard on it. In fact leather cups in a brass cylinder can deal with grit better than that type of pump.
The seal on top of the pump around the pump rod prevents contaminants from getting into your water. We use stainless steel pump rods and PVC drop pipe on all hand pump installations. My experience has been that leather pump cups by far is still the best for hand pumps. They've been used for over 100 years and you almost always find leather used in pumps that have heavy use such as windmills that pump water for livestock. Pump leathers in deep well pumps can last up to 20 years. With everything being stainless and PVC it's not that difficult to change them. For heavy usage and public areas we install the Baker Monitor pumps. We use PVC drop pipe, stainless steel rods, and a brass cylinder with real leather cups, usually has two cups. In residential installations, it's a combination between bison, another pump similar to that, made here locally, and the Baker Monitor pump but we almost always use baker pumps. I've only put in one bison pump. This might be because the area I live in is rural, and I think the reason people in my area want the Baker pump is because it's common to see old hand pumps in peoples yards as decoration. Baker Monitor has been around for 125 years and their pumps are heavy duty, good quality, and is still the traditional hand pump style. It has changed very little. They look nice, and it is a functional hand pump hidden in plain sight. So the majority of pumps you see in yards here don't work. People see them but they think it is decoration. In fact it's so common, it's one of those things you see driving by, but you don't notice it if you know what I mean. So, what i'm saying is in the most demanding pumping systems real leather is still used.


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## dahur

Well_Driller said:


> I took a look at it, they don't explain why their cylinder is better, but the pump cylinder still has to go down into the well. I really could not comment on how well their pump cylinder will work since i've never seen one. I'd have to have one to look at to say whether or not it would be good, but to answer your question my best guess is the cylinder is built similar to an oil well pump cylinder. These don't have seals but the plunger is machined to very close tolerances and polished. This means it can wear and grit and sand will be very hard on it. In fact leather cups in a brass cylinder can deal with grit better than that type of pump.
> The seal on top of the pump around the pump rod prevents contaminants from getting into your water. We use stainless steel pump rods and PVC drop pipe on all hand pump installations. My experience has been that leather pump cups by far is still the best for hand pumps. They've been used for over 100 years and you almost always find leather used in pumps that have heavy use such as windmills that pump water for livestock. Pump leathers in deep well pumps can last up to 20 years. With everything being stainless and PVC it's not that difficult to change them. For heavy usage and public areas we install the Baker Monitor pumps. We use PVC drop pipe, stainless steel rods, and a brass cylinder with real leather cups, usually has two cups. In residential installations, it's a combination between bison, another pump similar to that, made here locally, and the Baker Monitor pump but we almost always use baker pumps. I've only put in one bison pump. This might be because the area I live in is rural, and I think the reason people in my area want the Baker pump is because it's common to see old hand pumps in peoples yards as decoration. Baker Monitor has been around for 125 years and their pumps are heavy duty, good quality, and is still the traditional hand pump style. It has changed very little. They look nice, and it is a functional hand pump hidden in plain sight. So the majority of pumps you see in yards here don't work. People see them but they think it is decoration. In fact it's so common, it's one of those things you see driving by, but you don't notice it if you know what I mean. So, what i'm saying is in the most demanding pumping systems real leather is still used.


OK, I just did some reading on the Baker pumps. It seems the cost will be about the same as the Simple hand Pump (around $1600-1700).
It looks quite a bit stouter than the "Simple Pumps".


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## Well_Driller

dahur said:


> OK, I just did some reading on the Baker pumps. It seems the cost will be about the same as the Simple hand Pump (around $1600-1700).
> It looks quite a bit stouter than the "Simple Pumps".


They are, and they will take some abuse. That's why they like to use them in public places. Baker Monitor also has a shroud that covers the packing nut that is on top and they can be used with windmills too. What I like about them is the handle also has some weight to it which helps to counter balance the weight of the water and pump rods and makes it easier to pump when the water is deep. There are 3 settings on the handle. On wells where the weight of the pump rods pulls the handle up by itself we usually set it so when you let go of the handle it doesn't slam it back up, and that usually is a good balance for pumping. They are not cheap, but they are still made in the US, the castings are very high quality. I'm not saying you should get one over the other, Bisons pump head is a good quality pump head made in the US, and is the modern version hand pump. In my opinion for occasional backup use it's great, but for heavy everyday use probably a Baker Monitor pump is best. I can tell you that we set a Bison with 2" cylinder at 60' with another 20ft on bottom of the cylinder with the foot valve, and my pump is Baker Monitor with 2" cylinder set at 60' with 20ft pipe and foot valve below cylinder and comparing the two the Baker Monitor is easier to pump. Here's another thing to consider. To this date we have only installed Baker Monitor pumps on wells that have no other pump in them as the pump base is centered on the casing. Bisons pumps and some of the others have an offset base which allows the drop pipe to go past the pitless adapter which is needed when the pump is installed in a well that already has an electric pump installed. I don't know whether Baker Monitor offers an offset base or not. I'd stick with leather cups and brass or stainless cylinders. Some of these rubber seals don't hold up well with a lot of use because water has no lubrication properties and rubber really has too much friction. Leather is something that you can make yourself, and you can form the cups also.


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## dahur

Well_Driller said:


> They are, and they will take some abuse. That's why they like to use them in public places. Baker Monitor also has a shroud that covers the packing nut that is on top and they can be used with windmills too. What I like about them is the handle also has some weight to it which helps to counter balance the weight of the water and pump rods and makes it easier to pump when the water is deep. There are 3 settings on the handle. On wells where the weight of the pump rods pulls the handle up by itself we usually set it so when you let go of the handle it doesn't slam it back up, and that usually is a good balance for pumping. They are not cheap, but they are still made in the US, the castings are very high quality. I'm not saying you should get one over the other, Bisons pump head is a good quality pump head made in the US, and is the modern version hand pump. In my opinion for occasional backup use it's great, but for heavy everyday use probably a Baker Monitor pump is best. I can tell you that we set a Bison with 2" cylinder at 60' with another 20ft on bottom of the cylinder with the foot valve, and my pump is Baker Monitor with 2" cylinder set at 60' with 20ft pipe and foot valve below cylinder and comparing the two the Baker Monitor is easier to pump. Here's another thing to consider. To this date we have only installed Baker Monitor pumps on wells that have no other pump in them as the pump base is centered on the casing. Bisons pumps and some of the others have an offset base which allows the drop pipe to go past the pitless adapter which is needed when the pump is installed in a well that already has an electric pump installed. I don't know whether Baker Monitor offers an offset base or not. I'd stick with leather cups and brass or stainless cylinders. Some of these rubber seals don't hold up well with a lot of use because water has no lubrication properties and rubber really has too much friction. Leather is something that you can make yourself, and you can form the cups also.


I was going to ask if the Baker could be installed beside my Submersible, but you answered that. I was looking at the 2 1/2 dia. one for my water depth (70 ft). 
Would you know if the Bison has leather cups..?


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## Well_Driller

I don't know for sure. We don't use their cylinder.....


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## BadgerPeak

We had a similar static water and total well depth as the OP. We Chose the Simple Pump.

Here is a blog post about our install (alongside our submersible).

We have been very happy with the pump and we have even used it to pressurize our home's plumbing when the power goes out (much nicer than bucketing water).


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## dahur

Well_Driller said:


> I don't know for sure. We don't use their cylinder.....


My casing measures about 6 3/4" O.D. My paperwork says "case 5". Is this well-speak for the size changing below ground..or just wrong..?
When you install an AC submersible pump, how far below static level do you put it? I called Bison today, and she seemed to think with my well depth of 200 ft, my submersible should be around 150 ft. I needed to find out because if I get a hand pump, I don't think it would fit in the well, unless it was above the AC submersible.


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## Well_Driller

dahur said:


> My casing measures about 6 3/4" O.D. My paperwork says "case 5". Is this well-speak for the size changing below ground..or just wrong..?
> When you install an AC submersible pump, how far below static level do you put it? I called Bison today, and she seemed to think with my well depth of 200 ft, my submersible should be around 150 ft. I needed to find out because if I get a hand pump, I don't think it would fit in the well, unless it was above the AC submersible.


Well casing is measured on the inside diameter. What does the inside measure? The 6" casing we use measures 6" on the inside and 6-5/8" on the outside which is heavy pipe. It is possible that they've reduced to smaller casing further down for whatever reason or had installed a liner. If you take a mirror on a bright sunny day and reflect the sunlight down the well you might be able to see where it get's smaller if it's above the water line.
When we install a submersible pump we always set it 10ft off the bottom of the well unless there is a good reason not too. You can't get the hand pump cylinder past the other pump. It will have to be above it. You typically only need to get the cylinder down about 20ft below the water line. You won't be able to pump near the volume with a hand pump that the electric pump does so you won't drop the water level in the well much if any unless it makes very little water. Another thing, if they used the plastic wire guards on the pump drop pipe to keep the wires from rubbing against the well bore those would have to be removed. We put those in here to protect the wires but you can't get anything past them as they center the drop pipe in the well. Some people use them and some don't. They are common here and I put them in because we have a lot of trouble with the wires getting rubbed to the point they break if we don't.


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## Harry

Another option is the EZ Water Well Hand Pump. They just sell the cylinder ($179). It can be purchased from their website or from ebay. The other components can be purchased locally. You can have a good, but not fancy deep-well pump for $250 or less. It is designed to be used alongside an electric submersible pump.


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## LincTex

Harry said:


> Another option is the EZ Water Well Hand Pump. They just sell the cylinder ($179).


Only good to 150 feet, though.


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## bizkit

are the ez well pumps any good my static water level is a 100 down


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