# Acclimation issues...



## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

After posting on someone else's thread, this made me think about how we are used to things that make our lives convenient.

So here I am living just outside the "city limits" of a small town, the one I grew up in which has become populated with people who moved here, from south of us from their sprawling, well lit suburbs. The road we live right off of, is a main road, it follows the top of a ridge that overlooks a river (about 830 foot elevation, nice viewpoint for Mount Hood too). About half the way down this road just to our road has street lights, however constantly am having to avert my eyes driving in the dark because people feel the need to drive with their high beams on (and they forget to turn them off). It is a lit area, plenty of house lights too, however people are so accustomed to total light, they cannot seem to drive with low beams on in the dark (either that or my eyes are really good).

I have had people who came from the city on a Craiglist posting I did, at night, and eventually called and said they couldn't find it, it was just too dark out here (again, this is not up in the total wilderness, we have some lights out here).

We were out last spring and it was still cold out in the mountains and rainy lightly, and this one family kept going to their vehicle to warm up. We gathered some dry wood, grabbed my fire kit from the van (it includes newspaper, bits of old candles and matches), got a fire going with what was around us. They eventually drove off.

It all seems we have become too domesticated for our own good. I do have to wonder how people will fare once they no longer have electricity? How will they handle being cold? I grew up out here and almost everyone had a wood stove in their houses, even if it was a mobile home. Now no one wants them because they are "messy". I know in Portland, I knew some people who used their wood stove for heat and neighbors complained of the smell and smoke (people used to never complain about wood stove or fireplace smoke). 

I have encountered people who did not have the capability to chop vegetables with a knife (guess they always used a food processor to chop for them). I have actually known women who had never peeled a potato with a peeler (how do they get the skins off, is there a gadget I don't know about?). Related to one who claimed never to having cut up a whole chicken...the list is endless. How can people survive if things go sour?


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## cooksarah78 (Mar 23, 2013)

Sounds like when I was driving into scappoose from vernonia. However if I would of looked into the darkness I would crashed my car down a 400 ft ravene and died. I constantly find people in well lit areas that "forget" they have turned on their brights. Only way to stop someone like that is to keep urs on as well.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Most of our visitors complain (loudly) if the temperature is lower than 70 or higher than 80, they can't work out in the weather at all. One drop of rain and they run inside, you'd think the stuff was deadly! We don't heat their caravans in winter and it does drop below zero here (just), they know this when they come here, plenty of warm bedding but they really struggle with it. 
I have hundreds of stories about the amazing questions people ask and the things they just can't do or have never tried. I don't have a problem with anyone asking how to do something and trying to educate themselves but I do get a bit giggly when I get told (for example) that it's not healthy to eat food that has EVER been in contact with the ground or heaven forbid an ANIMAL.... 
The average age of visitors to the farm is 25, very few of these people can wash their own clothes, boil an egg, tie shoe laces (yep we have to show them), make a bed, wash themselves (no we didn't show them how!) etc etc. I had one lad here over christmas (hmmm ,19 years old I think) who stormed into the kitchen and demanded that I find him a hammer and chisel to split firewood as the axe and splitter were sooo heavy, he was a fit looking average 19 year old!
After all that, I still think quite a few will adapt, problem is finding people who can teach/show them how to change and learn. I think more will suffer or die from ignorance than lack of trying.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Im thinking after SHTF most of the worthless ppl will die off. Harsh? Yeah. True? Probably. Im fortunate to have raised my 4 kids in the real world. They will have a MUCH higher chance of survival. 
Seeing as how you are up in the Pacific North-West, WELL-Rounded, you are smack dab in the middle of Liberal territory. Maybe thats why you seem to be getting so many helpless ppl out at your place...


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## cooksarah78 (Mar 23, 2013)

I will freely admit in the pacific nw there are a lot of liberals, however most of them have moved here from other regions. I'm happy to say I was breed and born here. 3rd generation Oregonian and proud of it!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think there will be mass suicides after the collapse. Particularly among young people who will freak out when they can't text or go online or eat fast food or take hot showers anymore. So many of them are way too dependent on modern technology.


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## cooksarah78 (Mar 23, 2013)

Bill s I agree. Even some of the older ones (parents of my friends) have said they will commit suicide if the shtf.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

If there is any chance of the power going out, my mother in law FREAKS; not because she has to have her cpap or oxygen (she hardly ever uses them), she just can't stand dark. Think she has lots of lights and candles? Nope; a handful of candles and no lights. Sis in law and her hubby won't work if its daylight (too hot they say), and have no hand tools that require no electricity. the kids will be bored quickly and it will be hard on them. 

It will be an adjustment for us all, but we are slowly weaning ourselves from being 'grid dependent'; baby steps.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Go camping, especialy in undeveloped campsites. 

We had some "neighbors" recently who brought their prjector to watch movies againt the side of their camper. We could see (and hear!) them plainly from a half-mile away. They ran several gas lanterns at night (plus a generator) so that they could see. And all this for just two nights and three days along the lake shore.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Not to be harsh, just honest. Folks like that will learn quickly or die not long after that.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

A 500 watt light in the middle of your brush guard will quickly get them to turn off their highbeams.... Especially when it comes on... LOL

As for anyone telling me I can not have a wood stove, they can bite me.

I once met a surgeon that could not make a PB-n-J Sandwich but could replace your heart in a few hours. It is amazing that some people just cannot grasp daily life but they can grasp the most complicated of things or technologies.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Turning on your high beams at someone high beaming you just means neither of you can see. It's less safe than just toughing it out... just sayin...


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

I flash my high beams at people because people often just forget. Of course, I also spend half of my commuting time on the roads at 2 am, so there are a lot of drunks who just forget they have them on.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

There will certainly be a harsh learning curve for many people if SHTF.
But humans do have a will to survive and even the dumb ones should have enough brains to figure out many common things(if they stay alive long enough).


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is a short essay I posted a couple months ago on the subject.

http://www.theorganicprepper.ca/survival-of-the-most-adapatable-01202013

Forget survival of the strongest, the meanest, the fastest, the toughest, the fittest or the smartest.

All of those are fine qualities in a prepper but there is one key to survival in nearly any situation that trumps all of the above. That key is adaptability.

*Adaptability: The ability to change to fit changed circumstances.*

The ability to assess a situation and immediately change gears is a vital skill. It doesn't come naturally for everybody. Like any skill, it takes practice. You must be able to toss Plan A out the window without a regretful look back and plunge immediately and wholeheartedly into Plan B, C, or beyond. You must possess the ability to change your paradigm without hesitation. You can't cling to the way you want things to be, or the way they should be - you must instantly adapt to the way things are.

Everyone remembers the story about the soccer team whose plane went down in the Andes Mountains. The handful of survivors had no option but to consume the bodies of their teammates. Those who refused to adapt to that grim reality perished of starvation.

Here are some less horrific examples where adaptability might be key.

* You're out for a day hike with your family when an unexpected storm blows up. This isn't something you can control - you can only control your response to it. You must immediately accept that the storm is occurring and that you are under-supplied. You must look to your surroundings to create shelter from the elements, and possibly find drinking water and food.
* Your home is well-stocked for any event&#8230;except suddenly your home is in the path of a raging wildfire. You can't cling to the fact that your preps are in your home. Your survival reality has changed instantly and you must evacuate with your family and find a new way to be fed and sheltered.
* Your environment has suddenly changed. Maybe it's global warming, maybe it's global cooling or maybe somehow the earth was rocked on its axis. Suddenly your familiar climate is gone. You now have to learn to keep your body at the appropriate temperature and keep yourself fed in a totally different way.
* The power is gone. Permanently. Your heat no longer comes from a thermostat dial, your food can no longer be refrigerated in the convenient rectangle in your kitchen and even a light to read by now requires a different outlook. Some people will spend precious time mourning what is gone instead of planning their course of action with what is left.

So, back to the skill of adaptation - it can really be broken down into steps, no matter what the crisis may be. Some things require immediate action, so you have to get through the steps rapidly, while other situations allow you a little bit of thinking time.

"Adaptability is not imitation. It means power of resistance and assimilation."

Mahatma Gandhi

*Accept what is.*

You have to accept what is. In the event of a disaster, natural or otherwise, many people suffer some cognitive dissonance. Their psyches are simply unable to assess the reality of the situation and accept that it's actually happening. Sadly, this renders them pretty much useless in a crisis situation. Cognitive dissonance is defined as&#8230;

"the feeling of discomfort when simultaneously holding two or more conflicting cognitions: ideas, beliefs, values or emotional reactions&#8230;Dissonance is aroused when people are confronted with information that is inconsistent with their beliefs. If the dissonance is not reduced by changing one's belief, the dissonance can result in restoring consonance through misperception, rejection or refutation of the information, seeking support from others who share the beliefs, and attempting to persuade others."

Sadly, we are surrounded by cognitive dissonance, by people who stubbornly hang on to the way things were yesterday and refuse to adjust to the reality of today. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, as the saying goes. Some examples might be:

* The person who lost his job but continues to spend money frivolously, using a credit card to make up for the lost income.
* A person in the path of a horrible natural disaster who refuses to believe it's actually going to hit their home (think those who refused to evacuate when Hurricane Sandy was headed their way).
* A person who refuses to accept the fact that the debt-fueled lifestyle of the average North American is about to grind to a horrible halt.
* A person who stubbornly clings to the belief that groups like the national governments, NATO and the United Nations are actually there for the benefit of society rather than the benefit of the wealthy elite.

In a crisis situation, these people can be dangerous to be around. A lack of acceptance of the current reality can cause fatal mistakes, endangering not only the individual, but those included in their group.

When a bad thing happens, the absolute first step is accepting that it's happening. Believe that the thugs are really at your door, believe that the power is out and it's going to get cold fast, believe that the economy is making its last gasping breath. Accept what your senses are telling you and move on to the next step.

*Take action.*

The next step is to take action and do so immediately. In a chaotic situation, the first actions you take can set the course for the entire event. So, if there are gang-bangers kicking in your door, tell the kids to hide and grab your weapon. If a tornado is bearing down, go to the basement. If you've lost your job, stop all unnecessary expenditures and hunker down. If the power has gone out in the middle of a snowstorm, curtain off one room and concentrate your heating efforts there. If your instinct tells you it's time to bug out, grab your bag, the kids, the dog, and get the heck out of Dodge.

In cases like this, it helps, of course, if you have prepared for these events ahead of time. Clearly, no one knows exactly what the future holds, but your basic preparations will stand you in good stead in all of these scenarios.

*Adjust to the new reality.*

Finally, once the adrenaline wears off, you may be left with a new type of reality. Even the most adaptable person can find this part difficult. It's one thing to take action when the blood is pounding in your ears and fear is speeding you along. It's quite different to live a new life in the day to day. Depression and unhappiness can set in when you are removed from beloved and comfortable surroundings. This is the hardest step for many people. If you've planned ahead and prepped your family but then for some reason, like a fire or natural disaster, those preparations are gone, then you may feel like it was all for nothing.

It couldn't be further from the truth, though. As Hubert H. Humphrey Jr. famously said, "It is not what they take away from you that counts. It's what you do with what you have left." If you had to start over, right this instant, think of all the things you've learned during the time you've been awake and aware. You have learned to prioritize for the future instead of satisfying the whims of the here and now. You may have learned skills like gardening, personal defense, food preservation, or chopping firewood. Your MIND is the number one tool to help you adjust to the new reality, whatever that reality may be. Most of all, you've learned how to think. No fire can take away the knowledge you've acquired. No thieves can steal your learned skills. No natural disaster can undo the mental preparedness that you have built up.

*How can we become more adaptable?*

If you're reading this article you are probably more than halfway there! It's the nature of a prepper to think about the things that might go wrong. That is how we become better prepared for a variety of events, natural and otherwise.

*Run scenarios with your loved ones.* This is one case in which television can actually be valuable. Some programs and movies can serve as a teaching tool. For example, I watched an older episode of Criminal Minds with my daughter, in which a child her age was approached by a nice looking man and tricked into going into a secluded area, where she was then kidnapped. We watched the scene in its entirety, then we backed up and replayed it bit by bit, discussing the warning signs and what the girl could have done differently. We discussed ways that something similar could happen here in our hometown and ways to respond to similar threats. When terrible things happen in the world, discuss them and determine a few courses of action that could be taken to avoid becoming a victim.

*Keep up with current events.* Notice trends in the economy, crime and government. Pay attention to things happening in other countries too - what happened in Greece a few years ago is happening in the United States now. Learn from their collapse to predict what might happen during ours, and then prepare accordingly.

*Think about your preps critically.* Have you ever realized that a preparation you've made isn't all it was cracked up to be? I recently discovered that some food I'd stored away was loaded with bugs (gross!!!!!!!) Luckily, I didn't lose a great deal of food and I learned a valuable lesson about the way I had been storing that particular item. If you live in an earthquake prone area, are your jars of home-canned food secured against breakage? Do you have "enough" ammo and the means to make more? Do you have back-ups for your primary garden tools? Extra handles and blades? Sometimes adaptability takes a little advance preparation.

*******

Even if you don't agree with all the conclusions of Charles Darwin, there is much to be learned from his studies of nature. Although he was talking about reproductive evolution in his writings, his premise rings true for those of us who intend to survive challenges, both mundane and extraordinary. You don't have to be the strongest, smartest, fastest or toughest. You have to be the most flexible. Whatever comes your way, take it and roll with it.

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives.

It is the one that is most adaptable to change."

Charles Darwin


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

seanallen said:


> Im thinking after SHTF most of the worthless ppl will die off. Harsh? Yeah. True? Probably. Im fortunate to have raised my 4 kids in the real world. They will have a MUCH higher chance of survival.
> Seeing as how you are up in the Pacific North-West, WELL-Rounded, you are smack dab in the middle of Liberal territory. Maybe thats why you seem to be getting so many helpless ppl out at your place...


Ummm, Pacific North-West.... Not by half a world. Our visitors are from ALL over the globe, from all sorts of backgrounds. Makes no difference where they are from or what they believe most have no clue about anything practical or any life skills.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

These people are driving from a lit area through a lit area, with their high beams on...cooksarah78, glad to have someone from my region who understands. We have lots of domesticated Californians (I understand there are plenty of rough and ready ones from down there, we just happen to be getting all your domestic lemmings) over here (Sandy), and they are the ones who drive around town with lit streets with their brights on.

Wellrounded, as a Pacific Northwesterner, I would probably not do well in your warmer climate, I am so acclimated to colder temps. Summers here are mild, and rarely do we see above 85, when we do it is short lived. I am at a higher elevation, and so our nights always cool down in summer. I find I can work better in the cold than in the heat.

cooksarah78, I was born an raised here too, parents born and raised up near Seattle (Issaquah, Bellevue, back when they were separate small towns), they left to get away from the rat race it was becoming. Spent part of my childhood in eastern Oregon, the rest where I am now.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I was very spoiled; lived in city my whole life with wknd visits to what is now our BOL, always had power, and if I didn't want to play outside, it was ok. I see now how stunted my growth as an independent person is and do not want that for my children. If I don't have matches or a lighter, I have no way of making fire. I'm just now learning how to cook over an open fire (besides s'mores) and wishing I had paid more attention to my grandmother when she canned. 

My husband grew up working outside with his hands, butchering animals, canning, etc. so it's not new to him, his parents just got lazy the last 15 years. The land we live on, he was born and raised here and can sleep through anything. I'm just now getting to where I don't need a flashlight to walk up to my car at night cuz I think every little sound is a wild animal coming to attack me.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

It's called COMFORT ZONE and it has to do with all the modern conveniences of the age of electricity. You walk into your home and flip a switch and lights come on, because you expect it. You turn on the hot water faucet and get hot water, because you expect it. You turn on a TV and get entertained, because you expect it. You climb into your car, start it up and go anywhere you want to go, because you expect it. It would not at all surprise me to see people commit suicide when these expectations disappear, when their expectations are turned upside down and the reality of their boxed in world comes to a screeching halt with their COMFORT ZONE totally gone. Now what I have said doesn't mean I don't appreciate the availability of the many uses of electrical power, what it means is that it's not a god I bow down to, if it goes away I'll survive and more than likely thrive because my wife and I have prepared to do so. I have come to see over the years a percentage that always seems to stand out and it's 95%-5%. 95% of the general population are clueless, blinded by reliance to their comfort zone in all issues of their lives and then there is the 5% of which we here on this forum are a part of. It is not out of conceit when I say that we are special, I often wonder why only certain people "Get it" as we here do, I think it may have to do with the difference of linear thinking, confined as in a box. As apposed to non-linear thinking as in breaking through any barrier that has been put before us, for the most part we live outside of their box. We won't allow ourselves to be contained by what other want us to be. That is true freedom but it does come with costs and that's the difference between us and the 95%.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

I never had a potato peeler till I got married and my wife brought one with here, my grandma always used a knife and therefore so did I. My grandpa was a Master Sargent cook in the army so you would have thought he would have gotten her one but alas some people do things they way they are brought up to do.I have to admit that after two weeks in the amazon I was sure wanting a hot shower so maybe Im too soft LOL.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Viking said:


> It's called COMFORT ZONE and it has to do with all the modern conveniences of the age of electricity.


I agree, so easy to dismiss the rest of the world and stay in your comfortable little box. 
I think being able to leave your comfort zone is a skill of sorts. Some seem to be able to take big changes without much drama, others struggle with it. I've lived in some pretty primitive places over the years and it seems to take me about two weeks to get used to major changes. Seems about the same with most that can adapt. You spend the first few days just trying to get things organised and working, then a few days where you curse at the change, then a few days wishing you were back where you were before the change, then you start to settle in and accept it as part of life and stop thinking about it as different. 
Milking a cow after a break is a great little example of this. A few days to organise everything to efficiency, then you curse getting up in the morning and how your hands ache, then you get annoyed at how you have to shape life around milking time, then you accept it and life flows again. It becomes part of the daily routine and you start enjoying being with the warm cows on cold mornings and your kitchen is set up for butter and cheese making. It becomes easy and 'normal' to do these extra jobs.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

It could seriously take me a month; I don't like change and it messes with my OCD


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> It could seriously take me a month; I don't like change and it messes with my OCD


I hate changes in my schedule. If I can switch to another schedule then it isn't as bad, but no schedule? No way.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> It could seriously take me a month; I don't like change and it messes with my OCD


If you don't mind me asking, how much do you think about this when you're prepping. Do you give a lot of thought to the changes you'll have to make and ways for you to cope with it. I'm a bit the opposite I love change and hate it when things are the same for too long, I start having trouble working if I have to do the same thing at the same time for too long. I'll do a bit of reorganising and that gets me motivated again.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

As far as weather, I hate cold (2 kinds of arthritis) s I've stocked up on sweats, blankets. As for changes to my routine, I haven't had the time/funds to work on that. My husband has come up with an idea {fingers crossed} that will allow us to bug in since the only property we have to bug out to is 2 hours away and have to travel major roads. Hopefully if that idea works, it will ease my fears and anxieties about our survival. 

I might have grown up going to that property 2-3 times a month growing up, but I have been back only occasionally since 2000. If we can stay put, I can store more food here, don't have to spread my time between 2 states, worry about any shelters or animal left there let alone preps. It will GREATLY decrease my anxiety if my husbands plan works.


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## cooksarah78 (Mar 23, 2013)

Hoppe, we were in ur area yesterday just for a drive. Yes I completely understand the situation in the area with the brights. What ppl don't get is that that song all of the lights is just a song and not something to do ... Lol but anyways we meaning me and the other half were looking for a campsite that I stayed at 9 years ago I believe I found it past the dq. We enjoyed the scenery u know the usual the snow the trees the out of staters getting pulled over for speeding by the staters. A good time. I was also looking for things I can convert into jelly but still an awesome time a lot more spread out then here in Beaverton area.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

People are helpless. I just went camping this weekend with about 40 other people (church group kinda thing). Car camping by water. Watching some of these folks was sad and funny at the same time. Driving half hour to gas station for dinner, purchasing fire wood when sitting next to a downed tree and a chainsaw, pitching tents in a wash right before it rained, etc. The learning curve is gonna be steep.


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## cooksarah78 (Mar 23, 2013)

Wow def gonna need to learn lol I would of paid to see that


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

cooksarah78, I get a little giddy when I see local, county or state pulling over the snowboarders hot rodding through the area...I think the cops enjoy it too. One thing I learned from childhood on, Sandy is 25 mph and Sandy cops will make sure you do it.

Speaking of those hot rod snowboarders...we were stopped in Safeway, hubby decided he had to have a Starbucks coffee before we took off somewhere. It was height of ski season, these kids (late teens early 20's) were in their gear walking around the store buying junk thinking they were hot stuff, and I hear one kid say "sh**T this town is lame-a**, they don't have a freaking thing and are just a bunch of ********"......That's when I was hoping they'd pull out, feel cool, burn some rubber and get nailed! LOL

I have to believe these overtly spoiled and domesticated kids will never do anything worthwhile for society. I also think these are the people who, along with their doting parents, will be freaking out when SHTF and they are suddenly unable to afford or access their luxuries. Sure I might be a "*******" as well as many in this town, but this ******* woman is not afraid to get her hands dirty, raise animals for egg, meat ,etc..grow food and able to make sure you stayed warm, as well as many other things. Something these kids cannot or will not appreciate of the people they attempt to downplay until they suddenly realize those same people are not cold and hungry.

The other thing we are not, cooksarah, is lost in the forests of Oregon, something that happens all too often out here (as I am sure you know).... First thing I was taught by my parents and even my outdoorsy hippy teachers was never go out in the winter, if you did, do not go alone, do not go off trail (for skiers and such) in winter, and take a pack with emergency supplies, just in case. Lately we have has so many move here, think it is all so beautiful, go traipsing around in the woods, know nothing about where they are at, do not have anything with them, and get lost. Sadly some are found too late. The Gorge is a bad place for that too.

There is another acclimation issue. I would not move to a swampy place like Louisiana and up and decide to just go running around without knowing more about my new environment, its plain foolish. Getting familiar with where you live is important in a survival situation, I have seen many people live here all their lives and even be clueless about the environment around them.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

The fire dept's rescue hikers almost daily in the Phoenix area. And that is with easily followed/marked trails! I hike summer and winter alone and very, very seldom on any kind of a trail. After SHTF when city dwellers "head-for-the-hills" they will be stepping over many bodies of the ones that went there first.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Red River Gorge has hikers go missing in every season; some are not found in time. It amazes me the stupidity of ppl who go hiking.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

not all of Louisiana is swampy. I have hills where I am. the bayous near here make for good hunting and fishing. and most area don't have water worries. now further south of me is low coastal and can flood at times. they just build their houses higher off the ground. as with other states, Louisiana has many different areas to consider. right now we have some of the better gun laws such as that the second amendment is a right the same as the right of speech and church, not to be taken away. some are saying that that law will even allow a felon to have a gun as long as he doesn't break a law with it.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

stayingthegame said:


> not all of Louisiana is swampy. I have hills where I am. the bayous near here make for good hunting and fishing. and most area don't have water worries. now further south of me is low coastal and can flood at times. they just build their houses higher off the ground. as with other states, Louisiana has many different areas to consider. right now we have some of the better gun laws such as that the second amendment is a right the same as the right of speech and church, not to be taken away. some are saying that that law will even allow a felon to have a gun as long as he doesn't break a law with it.


That kind of sounds like Idaho. There was a Constitutional amendment last election that made hunting, trapping and fishing all rights that are only overridden by fish and game if someone breaks the law. Otherwise, it is considered a God-given right.


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## siletz (Aug 23, 2011)

I have a lot of "city" friends and family that live in the Willamette Valley and one thing I have noticed is how addicted they are to their electronic things. They are constantly on their phones texting and such. They seem completely incapable of going even a couple of hours without them. While it seems silly, I think this will be a major adjustment if they have to suddenly go without them.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Siletz- I am addicted to my iPhone but only because I'm hardly ever home. I use it for everything and will have a hard time. I'm trying to wean myself but its HARD. I use it for personal and work and with my work, it would be next to impossible to do sometimes without Internet.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I could see real value in a smart phone(even if there is no service). There are so many apps that seem to be very useful. I have no smart phone and I detest cell phones but many things have uses.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

The electronic age has killed a few of people here in S.W. Oregon, a most notable case is the Lee family that believed what their GPS told them and got stuck in the snow a few years ago on Bear Camp road, a so called shortcut to the coastal highway, the husband lost his life walking for help. Now the county closes the road in winter, much to the sorrow of locals who hunt or at least know what they are doing. I don't trust electronic maps, however I will use a GPS in conjunction with state Atlas & Gazetteer maps that have GPS references. It's sad that the electronic reliance has brought about an ignorance that is life threatening.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I don't trust the map app at all-always take us WAY out of our way. It's mainly Internet for genealogy research and texting


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Viking, I remember that, it was really awful. I think what happens in situations like that is people don't stop to think when they get onto a road that seems like it is more than what they bargained for, they keep going thinking it might get better, it happened up here with a local family out Christmas tree hunting, got onto unmaintained forest service road (in winter) and even their SUV could not handle it, they got lucky and were found fairly quick. Here again I was always taught never to go off main trails or roads in winter, never. Do not go onto the back highways unless you knew the road conditions ahead of time, and if it was questionable, you were better off turning around and taking a known route.

stayingthegame, my point was how people come into locales they are not at all familiar with and thinking they can hike in and handle it, not knowing the type of terrain and critters that could cause them trouble they have never dealt with. Someone like myself, the swamps are the opposite of what I am used to and it would be a problem for me, I don't know my way around that kind of landscape. 

People do it here a lot, they move here, think it is beautiful and assume since we have no poisonous snakes this side of the Cascade Mountains, and no poisonous spiders, it's safe to wander off and just meander, suddenly realizing they got onto a high cliff trail that has been loosened up by winter rains, and sometimes they go over, sometimes their downfall is the heavy snows up high, and they underestimate the difficulty. As well up here, the snow storms can come up in the Mount Hood area sometimes through June. Even our best experienced people have been caught off guard and had to be rescued from freak off season snow storms, how much so with someone new to the area?

Dixie, me too, a genealogy person, it is where I have spent the majority of my time on the internet since it's public availability.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I have 15 years experience, then inherited 40 more. My family (and my husbands) were some of the first white people in this country and its hard to get to NC, coastal VA and MA for research! I will have a hard time adjusting to no Internet


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> How can people survive if things go sour?


If there is any upside to TEOTWAWKI it is that most of the worthless wastes of skin won't. Maybe that is heartless even cruel but seeing what a selfish self centered self serving dependent perpetual consumption society we have become it is hard for me to see losing them as a loss.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Well Longrider, they will become dead weight if they are unable to cope and expect to be taken care of after some kind of fall, and it seems predictable that this could be so with a lot of people who cannot even adjust to tightening their belts in a "recession" (lets not fool ourselves we're basically in a depression).

I read an article in a waiting room one time, wish I could remember the magazine, but it was all about an American family learning to budget after a financial crisis....so this all American family had a two income household, woman was a professional something, her husband had a business that had taken a hit financially, so she realized how deeply they were in debt, and had to scale back her daily spending (just her "fun" money ,not the food or anything else) to $95 daily, and how she chose not to drop buying all organic foods (milk at over $5 a gallon)....ok...how about they write an article about people living on less than $35,000.00 a year with kids? There's more reality in a family on a tight budget, living in a rental, with one car (not new, no payments), using coupons for everything, and not having any daily spending money, and also not buying the most expensive foods because anything else was "unimaginable" (quote directly from the articles main character).

These are the people that have no clue how it is to live in drastic circumstances and have never had to make due or go without. They will be dead weight, and sadly, yes, they might lose their lives because they could not adjust, they would not know how to find alternative ways to make it (because they could not buy it?...).

I believe those of us who have seen really rough times will adjust better, we have had to before and know we can again. We have ate leftovers before (had to add that!LOL).

Dixie, my mothers family too, Nova Scotia/New Brunswick, early 1600's, got run out by the English, hers stayed behind with the local native people (some were married in they were family and hid out with them till the heat was off basically). Have not been able to get further back than the Civil War on my dads side, dead-end.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

My husband is Cherokee and I am Powhatan. Between the 2 of us, we're related to just about everyone in the surrounding 6 counties! 

But I digress....


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

PM me the names and dates--will check what I have and see if I can help ya


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

BillS said:


> I think there will be mass suicides after the collapse.


Aww how sad



dixiemama said:


> It could seriously take me a month; I don't like change and it messes with my OCD


This is one of the reason I encourage people to become self sustaining now. To live off of the foods they stock pile. To harvest gather the wild foods they intend in eating if SHTF. Simple things like changes in diet can be traumatic for many even if they know how to properly prepare store and preserve those foods. Food depression can be a seriously debilitating even if they are receiving 100% of the calories they are accustomed to. Being self sustaining has its own rhythm and pace. Requires a whole different way of looking at things. That is very different from our modern world. So it is better to make those adjustments now so that if the need arises the change will not be so traumatic.



HoppeEL4 said:


> cooksarah78, I get a little giddy when I see local, county or state pulling over the snowboarders hot rodding through the area...I think the cops enjoy it too.


Reminds me of one of my favorite bumper stickers
*IF IT'S TOURIST SEASON WHY CAN'T WE SHOOT THEM​*


HoppeEL4 said:


> I hear one kid say "sh**T this town is lame-a**, they don't have a freaking thing and are just a bunch of ********"......


This is one of the times I loudly quote said bumper sticker.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

The foods not an issue; it's the no-electricity, hard to research genealogy-that's gonna get me. A lot of my family migrated out of KY so finding records without Internet will be my hardest. I can camp/rough it with no problems. My OCD isn't having certain foods, germs or stuff like that. My cash has to be a certain way, my blankets have to be a certain way, or I panic.


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## farmers (Jul 28, 2012)

HoppeEL that's a good one, may change it alittle for Texas. I needed a good laugh.


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## farmers (Jul 28, 2012)

Dixiemama You will find on your genology search it is hard. We found port of entry was Florida. We found then in St. Louis we have about 100 years between dates. We have traveled to all the southern states, to no avail. Several archives told us the civil war, that I many records where destroyed. Good luck hope you do better then we did.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I live by census records-- have them downloaded an printed so they are 'in hand'. It can be difficult, especially with a Florida point of entry.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> Well Longrider, they will become dead weight if they are unable to cope and expect to be taken care of after some kind of fall, and it seems predictable that this could be so with a lot of people who cannot even adjust to tightening their belts in a "recession" (lets not fool ourselves we're basically in a depression).


Exactly, politically incorrect or not I have a hard time thinking that their removal from the gene pool would be a bad thing. IMHO much of the difficulties we have now are a direct result of hard working people paying worthless parasites incapable of taking care of themselves to breed more worthless parasites who vote to have increasingly lavish lifestyles provided for themselves and their parasitic spawn. It would be nice to see all of them finally contribute something. Fertilizer, is an acceptable contribution IMHO.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

LongRider, when we lived in town, and our son was about 13, he and a friend had walked to the store. He had about $50 he had earned with him (yard work for other people), and these two older teens jumped them and threatened them to hand over any money they had, our son said he didn't and pulled out the shared cell phone my hubby and I had sent him with. The two older teens took off. Well we found out they had their mother with them, she was in a wheel chair, but apparently had been waiting in the shadows for them to get some money. 

Cops were called, and the one cop called us down to the local bus transit center where the teens had been found, our son identified them, but our son also explained he saw their mother with them in the wheelchair. Cop said they think she took off on the teens allowing them to get caught. His statement to us as parents was "dysfunctional breeding dysfunctional".

It is all too often these days. This is the kind of thing that is dragging our society down.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

HoppeEL4 said:


> How can people survive if things go sour?


I've encountered plenty of these whiners, and I'm in such a foul mood right now, I say "hopefully they won't". I'm sick of carrying others' loads, disabling myself to provide a nice standard of living for unappreciative pieces of crap. I'm not talking about teenagers, they're SUPPOSED to be idiots... :Rockwall: vract:


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> The foods not an issue; it's the no-electricity, hard to research genealogy-that's gonna get me. A lot of my family migrated out of KY so finding records without Internet will be my hardest. I can camp/rough it with no problems. My OCD isn't having certain foods, germs or stuff like that. My cash has to be a certain way, my blankets have to be a certain way, or I panic.


You are right food is but one example, again at the risk of sounding like a broken record, is why I keep saying we need to be self sustaining now, accustomed to living of what we can provide ourselves. So that it does not become such a huge shock. Granted we will need to adapt to losing things we have no control over but we can minimize the degree of change required to adapt. Have no worries though once the grid goes down there will be plenty for feed your OCD and obsess about.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

I've met people that won't eat eggs that weren't purchased at a store, because ones from chickens are "just not sanitary". We give away excess produce, and have had it refused because it was grown in a garden where there is bugs and "things" that might have crawled on it. I've had people ask me how you could kill an animal and then eat it, as if the meat from the store is just produced by some machine (well ok, some of it may have been...). I know people that have never cooked a full meal, except by heating up prepackaged frozen food. 

I can't count the number of times that I have heard people say that they'd want to be the first ones to die in some life changing disaster. It's usually in reference to a nuclear exchange, but I've heard it in regards to other events also. I think that most of this attitude comes from being lied to and told that the results of a nuclear war would be unsurvivable, so they just wish for a quick death so as not to have to "suffer" through the aftermath before they eventually die.

And it's not just city folks. A lot of rural people have fallen into the whole "convenience" trap. These types will not only be freaked out after a SHTF event, but will also be dangerous.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LongRider said:


> You are right food is but one example, again at the risk of sounding like a broken record, is why I keep saying we need to be self sustaining now, accustomed to living of what we can provide ourselves. So that it does not become such a huge shock. Granted we will need to adapt to losing things we have no control over but we can minimize the degree of change required to adapt. Have no worries though once the grid goes down there will be plenty for feed your OCD and obsess about.


I keep saying this to my wife and others, even though we on this site know a great deal of what's coming I have a feeling that when it does it will probably take our breath away, due to it's magnitude. The uninformed and purposefully ignorant will probably soil their britches and we here will have to harden ourselves or what we have prepared for could end up as if we had nothing. Most of us here have probably warned our relatives and friends so the responsibilities are no longer yours. Stand strong or you will fail at taking care of those who are with you in this.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

k0xxx, I have a brother that has a bit of an issue, he would not eat the eggs we produced out here, although they were far superior and cleaner. I would gather eggs from an already clean nest box, but would give them a slight dip in warm water that had a couple of squirts of hand sanitizer in it, because I did sell to some older people at the local VFW (some might have lowered immunities, so I did this with them in mind). 

Craziness was, the yolks were ten times as dense and rich, were a deep orange color (versus the stores light yellow yolks) and not one person had ever been sick from our eggs as the hens were free range and their diet was all natural (feed was all natural feed) plus they "grazed" on clover and young grass and greens shoots all day, bugs and worms. I have issues with store bought eggs due to the coccicidiat they used in the feeds for those caged/farmed layers (they use small amounts to keep Coccidiosis at bay in the crowded conditions). with homegrown eggs I have no issues, could eat as many as I want. Have one other brother who has also complained of the problems with the mega farm raised eggs.

As for produce, the silt your plants take up and that might be on the outer layer (such as with greens) is actually something your body needs, it carries with it minerals. Silliness of people to think their meat, produce and eggs are better from the mega farms they come from. Those conditions are where people are always getting sick out of.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> LongRider, when we lived in town, and our son was about 13, he and a friend had walked to the store. He had about $50 he had earned with him (yard work for other people), and these two older teens jumped them and threatened them to hand over any money they had, our son said he didn't and pulled out the shared cell phone my hubby and I had sent him with. The two older teens took off. Well we found out they had their mother with them, she was in a wheel chair, but apparently had been waiting in the shadows for them to get some money.
> 
> Cops were called, and the one cop called us down to the local bus transit center where the teens had been found, our son identified them, but our son also explained he saw their mother with them in the wheelchair. Cop said they think she took off on the teens allowing them to get caught. His statement to us as parents was "dysfunctional breeding dysfunctional".
> 
> It is all too often these days. This is the kind of thing that is dragging our society down.


I don't see what could possibly be wrong with that crippled bitch and her bastards all dropping dead. An aside you may want to consider having your son take some martial arts and at least basic handgun courses (for when he is legally able to carry a gun). A cell phone is little protection against a truly violent predator. They were extremely lucky, had their attackers been armed the outcome may have been very different. I would not want to bet their lives on them being lucky a second time.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Walking sticks are always innocent looking and they hurt!


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## Skeeter (Nov 7, 2009)

LongRider said:


> Exactly, politically incorrect or not I have a hard time thinking that their removal from the gene pool would be a bad thing. IMHO much of the difficulties we have now are a direct result of hard working people paying worthless parasites incapable of taking care of themselves to breed more worthless parasites who vote to have increasingly lavish lifestyles provided for themselves and their parasitic spawn. It would be nice to see all of them finally contribute something. Fertilizer, is an acceptable contribution IMHO.


I'm not going to just"like this post", I am going to applaude you for telling it like it is. :groupwave:


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

k0xxx said:


> I've met people that won't eat eggs that weren't purchased at a store, because ones from chickens are "just not sanitary".


That's my mom. Only "Egglands Best" for her. :gaah:


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> I have actually known women who had never peeled a potato with a peeler (how do they get the skins off, is there a gadget I don't know about?)QUOTE]
> 
> You can boil the potatos and then pull the skin right off. Still a not ever having used a peeler is rediculous.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Walking sticks are always innocent looking and they hurt!


True fact I always carry one, for those places where it is illegal to carry my gun or knives. A very grey man weapon that often gives one the advantage of having your attacker underestimating you.


Skeeter said:


> I'm not going to just"like this post", I am going to applaude you for telling it like it is. :groupwave:


Thanks but isn't it sad that we live in a world where that is the exception rather than the rule because the truth might offend someone?


deetheivy said:


> You can boil the potatos and then pull the skin right off. Still a not ever having used a peeler is rediculous.


I actually prefer that method because most of a potatoes nutrients and much of the flavor is right under the outer peel that a potato peeler peels off.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

LongRider, he is almost 20 now and quite big, plenty big enough (6 ft 2 in, still teen skinny to some degree, but his dad is broad shouldered and solid) to hold his own. He works full time at a feed store bucking hay and has some serious muscles, because that feed store is in Portland proper, he can hold his own as manager too he has to deal with meth heads and belligerent homeless frequently. He has thought about going into one of the county sheriffs deputy programs. 

I have a hard time thinking of him being a county deputy...am worried about any potential future of martial law that would require him to work against citizens, and in that case, his own family. His character is "Boy Scout-ish" and he was brought up believing in a limited government and limited governmental powers.


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## usingmyrights (Mar 26, 2013)

I'd hate a long term outage due to losing the stuff in my deep freezer. I live in a warmer part of the country and have a woodburning insert that will warm the room some. About 10-15 degrees according to my galileo thermometer. I have some decent cold weather gear for myelf, but would like more for the family. I've also been hunting for wool blankets at yards and such, but a lot are too "grandmay" and get vetoed by the ole lady. Other than that, I think I'll be ok. I just picked up a Coleman 425stove and a vintage Coleman 228f lantern for $20. They'll probably need about $15 to rebuild the pumps, it that'll add more fuel diversity to my preps.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Our winters can be hard here in KY, some with snow all season, others sporadic, and still other seasons with no snow or cold at all. Winter of 2011-2012 I wore sandals all season. This year was cold but not as bad as 2009-2010. 

Got some scrap fabric for free and making quilts for everyone (will have enough for Bub's twin bed, our queen plus big baby quilt) and getting jackets and thick thermals.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Dixie, of course you quilt!LOL....The irony for me is I do not...and my husband works for the countries largest quilt fabric supplier (the maker of Shadowplay, Maywood fabrics). I even get hassled by all the women who work there (who do quilt). I stink at it. no matter how good I cut and line up squares, I always wind up with the pieces eventually not lining up and have this odd shaped quilt front....lol...lol Oh well, I do other projects with the fabrics. Thinking about doing a little fabric, batting, needles and thread stock pile to trade with later (people will need this kind of thing eventually).


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## MsSage (Mar 3, 2012)

As I sit here typing this I have snow lightly falling outside LOL wow for a Carolina girl ...Easter is the start of summer. I moved to the panhandle of Texas over 6 years ago. I lived in Dalhart for 2 and it was a bit hard getting use to the altitude, took me almost 3 months to where I wouldnt get tired just fast walking any distance. Yes we are at 5000 ft. I am just now getting my biscuits to rise and cakes not to sink in the middle. I have to keep an eye on pasta cuz I am still over cooking it...cant get internal timer reset LOL
Yes I know the op was referring to temperature BUT how many say they will head to the Mountains and set up camp........you had better keep in mind ALTITUDE. Things are different up here and some places you would never think are high altitude BUT are .....
Now where I live is an old house very drafty. I get the chafe from the grain elevators all over when the wind blows hard.I started get use to snow and driving in it while in Dalhart BUT always kept my house very warm....Now, that is not an option. When I bought it I just thought ok no heat I will just get a couple space heaters and go from there HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah I am still looking for a woodstove , but people up here will NOT let them go. Now I can walk outside to the dumpster in upper 30's with the wind blowing, like it always does and only have on a long sleeve shirt. 
It takes determination and time but everyone can adjust and thrive in any conditions. 

As for peeling potatoes with a peeler nope not me never have been able to get them to work right or not cut myself ..I use a knife same results. My horses love the peelings too. 

Hoppe have you ever tried a crazy quilt top? no matching or having to make sure everything is the same size. I know you can do one of them. 
My first couple of quilts were off ( ok quite a bit) and I started to get discouraged until a sweet older lady told me that only God makes perfect things and to think we can is an insult to God. So now I embrace the mistakes and focus on the fabric hug and love I am giving to friends and family.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

That me! I can't see on a machine that's not tredle run-the electric one scare me, too many fancy stitches. 

All my quilts are either crazy quilts or tack quilts. I can't make a fancy one to save my life. All my fancy one were done by my grandmothers; I did not inherit that gene.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> LongRider, he is almost 20 now and quite big, plenty big enough (6 ft 2 in, still teen skinny to some degree, but his dad is broad shouldered and solid) to hold his own. He works full time at a feed store bucking hay and has some serious muscles, because that feed store is in Portland proper, he can hold his own as manager too he has to deal with meth heads and belligerent homeless frequently. He has thought about going into one of the county sheriffs deputy programs.
> 
> I have a hard time thinking of him being a county deputy...am worried about any potential future of martial law that would require him to work against citizens, and in that case, his own family. His character is "Boy Scout-ish" and he was brought up believing in a limited government and limited governmental powers.


Often it is the big guys that end up being a target. When I was coming up it was the big guys that got called out and tested most often. Now a days if he gets attacked it won't be a "fair" fight. Big is not cut or bullet proof. Better to have a gun and never need it than to need one and not have it. That said
If he does become an officer have him take a look at Oath Keepers. When he takes up his duty he will swear an Oath before God to uphold the Constitution. Many forget that as we saw in Katrina but there were those who refused to obey unlawful orders against their fellow citizens. We desperately need more honorable men who will stand up and do the right thing if that line is ever drawn in the sand. It sounds like your son may be one of them. Being a member of Oath Keepers will help him. Knowing he is not alone.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

LongRider, he does already have guns, but said he keeps trying to get more ammo can't find it. All of it is being scooped up as fast as it's coming in to any of the local gun stores. When those other teens jumped him and his friend, they were both 13 going on 14, he had not hit that growth spurt quite yet. I would not think they would try now. He does a lot of heavy lifting of bales and big bags of feed during work, although he looks late teen skinny to some degree (has not gotten his full man build like his dad), he is tall sinewy and you can see the muscles.

As for his character, he is me...he could not go around enforcing any kind of marshal law, and doing anything to his fellow citizens that he knew was Constitutionally wrong. I know this about him and this is what worries me. If he were working as a deputy, and was expected to do those things, I am afraid he would not and be in deep himself for it, maybe that's why I am concerned. The other reason is the girlfriend he has....ugh..she was raised in the public schools, in Portland (Oregon) and shows signs of being "left-coast" liberal (no guns, ok to everything but being a Christian). I am just hoping she is in a late teen anti thing and will come out of it and mellow out.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

HoppeEL4 said:


> As for his character, he is me...he could not go around enforcing any kind of marshal law, and doing anything to his fellow citizens that he knew was Constitutionally wrong. I know this about him and this is what worries me. If he were working as a deputy, and was expected to do those things, I am afraid he would not and be in deep himself for it, maybe that's why I am concerned.


To start you can be proud you raised him right and proud of him for the man he has become. These days honorable men with integrity and fortitude are a rarity these day. Though I must say that the generation currently serving our nation has made a very favorable impression and given me personally cause to have hope for this nation. You are correct and I agree integrity and honor have inherent risks and a variety of dangers, sheeple will never encounter. That said it seems that this nation is in desperate need of men like your son that are willing to be of service. Not the lone voice of righteousness, and sacrificial lamb at the alter of justice and liberty but as a voice among many. To guide others with his knowledge and strength of character, being a man his peers seek to emulate. Sharing his knowledge to help good honorable men do the right thing. Good decent honorable men can not do the right thing if they do not know what that is.

As an example the unconstitutional and criminal gun confiscation during Katrina. I do not think that all those involved were goose stepping fascist pigs. I think that there were many LEO who honestly believed that they were doing a genuine service. Protecting the public from armed predators. Based on their personal experience and knowledge. Consider that many were from anti Constitution, anti civil rights states, places like Washington DC, San Francisco, The Peoples Republic of Kalifornia, Illinois, and Chicago especially were lawful gun ownership is virtually unheard of. Where gun possession and carry is illegal for law abiding citizens. Actually carrying a fire arm is the exclusive conduct of criminals. The only people they have ever encountered with guns were criminals, to the point that by their understanding of the law anyone in possession of a gun was a criminal by definition and from their personal experience most often a violent predatory criminal. Rather than stand up alone and refused to obey an order. Had one person explained to them what the law was what the Constitution said and reminded them of their Oath. Things may have been different. As happened in the case below. Gun confiscation by the military and LEO was not universal.

Not all police participated at the criminal theft of citizen's guns. The story is here *There WERE Troops Who Refused to Confiscate Guns During Katrina*. Even before there was an *Oath Keepers*. It took the voice of one honorable man to stand up. As result his unit understood what their duty was. Because of that one voice his unit refuse to obey an unlawful order in such a way that those giving the order knew they were out of line and shut their pie holes. So not all police or military participated in the theft of guns from law abiding citizens. As I said we do not need sacrificial lambs we need honorable men and women to lead their peers. So the day that we have to turn our weapons upon our fellow Americans does not ever happen again. Isn't that what we all really want. The gun fight we avoid is the only one anyone ever really wins. Fortunately organizations like *Oath Keepers* do exist. To help him educate his peers so that they are all on the same page.

No one ever said doing the right thing is the easy way as I am sure you taught your son. Not for us individually and especially not for us as parents. As I said it sounds like you did an excellent job raising your son, now it's time to let him be the man you raised him to be.

As far as the girl friend, We both know that loving someone for their potential is a losing proposition. We either love them for exactly who they are, as they are or let them go. It sounds like that is a lesson your son is about to learn. Hopefully it is not to prolonged and painful for him.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I can understand how having him in a police force would be good. He was inspired by someone, a Portland officer, in that way, who came often to his work, on his regular "beat", a good cop. I have one brother who did some reserve work for a while too, he is a decent guy, and had to often talk sense into a hot head deputy he worked with (went after a bunch of pranking teens like they were hardened criminals, for example).

I have a question while we're on the subject of cops and what's right. I recently saw a video produced by "Rule of Law" the man who was in the Air Force, is in Texas and teaches people how to defend themselves against unlawful stops while in your own personal vehicle. He states that all "traffic" laws are pretty much illegal and nothing more than a revenue generator and that the only time "traffic" or "transportation" laws apply is to someone using the road in a vehicle that is for business/profitable use. He states this because most laws, federal and state have been generated under Blacks Law Dictionary and that dictionary defines either to be only under someone gaining profit by using the roads.

I am dying to know more, and truthfully, I have gotten my husband interested in knowing more (this is a huge deal to me). I am in Oregon and know laws can differ everywhere. I am hoping to find someone here who knows more about this, I am a sit down face to face student. I assume this is under being a "Sovereign Citizen"? What I am looking for are resources on how this applies here, and does it truly apply to carrying insurance or does this simply mean cops cannot stop you, detain you for no reason and ask to search your documentation?


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

biobacon said:


> I never had a potato peeler till I got married...


I never had a potato peeler until I started selling Tupperware. After nearly cutting my finger off with it, I went back to using my trusty paring knife.

Unfortunately, that paring knife was lost somewhere during one of my moves, and I can't find another one just like it.

So now, I use a potato peeler. Just until I find that one, perfect paring knife.


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