# So China / Great Britian currency swap starts next week



## invision

What do you think short term impact will be and how soon till the long term impact is felt? 

My understanding is also that any EU country can now go through GB to do currency swap with China... Anyone else hear this?


This space for rent.


----------



## BillS

I saw this from last year:

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-23020718

UK and China in £21bn currency swap deal

The Bank of England and its Chinese counterpart have signed a deal likely to boost trade between the UK and China in the yuan.

----------------------------------------------------------
I don't see any real immediate impact. In the long term it's another nail in the coffin of the dollar.


----------



## Dakine

can anyone blame them? the USD is cooked and everyone knows it. Germany wants their gold back and we're telling them "sure, but only a little bit at a time" and we continue to spend lavishly on programs we can't afford.

That reminds me, I need to reshuffle my 401k all into index or look into a fund that is all PM's.


----------



## hiwall

> So China / Great Britian currency swap starts next week


Same time FACTA (Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act) takes effect.


----------



## Dakine

hiwall said:


> Same time FACTA (Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act) takes effect.


That is a big one right there. That may very well be what pushes us over the edge, straight into the abyss.


----------



## BillS

Dakine said:


> can anyone blame them? the USD is cooked and everyone knows it. Germany wants their gold back and we're telling them "sure, but only a little bit at a time" and we continue to spend lavishly on programs we can't afford.
> 
> That reminds me, I need to reshuffle my 401k all into index or look into a fund that is all PM's.


If it was me, I'd take out what I could regardless of the penalty and put it into physical metal.

My wife has a 401k. We can't withdraw any of it. I consider it all to be lost money.


----------



## Dakine

BillS said:


> If it was me, I'd take out what I could regardless of the penalty and put it into physical metal.
> 
> My wife has a 401k. We can't withdraw any of it. I consider it all to be lost money.


Been there, done that! :2thumb:

There was no penalty for taking a "loan" out to myself, the only penalty is less dollars in my take home check from repaying the loan, and in "lost" return on the 401k investment at retirement age. Since like so many other people, I have a very difficult time swallowing the load of bull that there will be any 401k money for my retirement I didn't find it a difficult thing to do.

I like to buy tools and "toys" now that I think will be extremely expensive if not impossible to get later on. Sure there may be guys out there after SHTF that want to sell their game cam, or maybe they have quality binoculars, or a laser range finder, or whatever it is that you need.... yeah maybe you can barter, or if you have junk silver and other PM's stashed away, maybe you can buy it... but anything I can buy, or buy and start growing today, like rabbits, gardens, chickens, etc... that's all money I don't have to spend on that stuff later on.

Besides, going to and from the swap meets or whatever where these guys will be selling that stuff, when we're talking SHTF scenario, we're likely also talking WROL, and there will be a lot of people taking up a very old profession, NO not that one but yeah we'll see that too, I was referring to the "highway man". And it wont take very long to be marked as "the guy" who keeps bringing food to trade, or silver to buy with and then the guy might as well be wearing a blaze orange vest that says "Gank me" on it.


----------



## invision

hiwall said:


> Same time FACTA (Fair and Accurate Credit Transactions Act) takes effect.


Hiwall - got any good links so I can read up on facta? I have been out of touch for so long because of business and health (3 major dental surgeries - 2 more to go over next 6 months) that I have only kept up with PM markets...

This space for rent.


----------



## Dakine

invision said:


> Hiwall - got any good links so I can read up on facta? I have been out of touch for so long because of business and health (3 major dental surgeries - 2 more to go over next 6 months) that I have only kept up with PM markets...
> 
> This space for rent.


I beleive it was actually called FATCA, which is part of the HIRE act, HR 2847. Takes effect July 1, 2014 and is going to be a very expensive mess, and if the .gov takes the actions that Foreign Financial Institutions are concerned about, it would generate massive flight from the USD, Wall Street and all US financial institutions as a whole.

I started a thread on this sometime back and completely forgot about it, let me see if I can dig that up... be right back...

this thread started by Beaniemaster2 on Jun 8 http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f4/new-bill-hr-2847-a-24901/

this thread by me started Apr 21 http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f4/hr-2847-facta-24442/

one of the forces in this law that may (really, like there's any doubt?) drive foreign capital out of the USD and all US Institutions, I've highlighted below in bold larger type...

http://americansabroad.org/issues/fatca/

What is FATCA?



> The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, better known as FATCA, was passed in 2010 as part of the HIRE act. Starting July 1, 2014 foreign financial institutions (FFI) will be required by the US government, under FATCA, to report information regarding accounts of all US citizens (living in the US and abroad), US "persons," green card holders and individuals holding certain US investments to the IRS. This law requires foreign financial institutions such as local banks, stock brokers, hedge funds, insurance companies, trusts, etc. - to report directly to the IRS all their clients who are "US persons." *FFIs that do not become compliant will be subject to a 30% withholding on their US investments when they are cashed in, which will directly impact FFI clients with US holdings.*


SNOPES, if you read through what they say is legitimate possible outcomes is enough to scare the daylights out of someone. That's discounting what they say is not possible. YIKES!!! below is a portion of the snopes commentary:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/hr2847.asp



> Writing in the New American, Alex Newman argued the more dire side of FATCA, speculating that it could potentially result in a large-scale movement by foreign investors to pull out of U.S. assets and markets:
> One of the underreported but major risks to the U.S. economy stemming from FATCA is the potential for wide-scale disinvestment from the United States by foreign institutions seeking to avoid the IRS, penalties, and huge compliance costs. In fact, countless analysts and financial giants have said the 30-percent FATCA "withholding tax' represents a powerful incentive to get out of U.S. markets entirely. The implications for the stock market, bonds, the dollar, and more could be monumental.
> 
> Estimates suggest there is currently more than $21 trillion of foreign capital invested in American assets and markets, with about $10 trillion of that in the stock market. However, that could change as FATCA enforcement begins later this year - possibly quickly. The Japanese Bankers Association, the European Banking Federation, the Institute of International Bankers, and others, for example, have all openly warned in recent years that some of their members could decide to ditch U.S. assets and markets in response to FATCA.
> 
> Luxembourg Bankers' Association CEO Jean-Jacques Rommes, speaking to Democrats Abroad, warned that the best way for banks to lower compliance risks was simply to reduce the amount of American assets they hold. "In other words, divest from the US market, in general," he explained, as summarized by the Luxembourg Bankers' Association.
> 
> Multiple reports have suggested that small and medium-sized firms, unable to bear the compliance costs or the crippling withholding taxes, would be especially likely to ditch American markets. "On the institutional side, the cost of becoming FATCA compliant may be prohibitive for some foreign institutions, and therefore they will divest from their American holdings," explained Douglas Goldstein, author of The Expatriate's Guide to Handling Money and Taxes and director of Profile Investment Services Ltd. Indeed, compliance costs borne by the private sector are expected to dwarf the amount of additional U.S. tax revenue - perhaps by hundreds of times.
> 
> Goldstein explained: "Faced with the choice between paying to implement the new rules or divesting from U.S.-based assets, smaller foreign banks that can't afford to shoulder these costs may choose the latter," Goldstein added. "After all, there are plenty of promising new markets in which to invest."
> 
> Needless to say, if foreign institutions started fleeing U.S. markets, the economic damage would be massive - potentially apocalyptic, especially considering U.S. trade deficits and America's outsized reliance on foreign investment and outside credit just to function.
> 
> Read more at http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/hr2847.asp#CReJboPyecWjRtTe.99


----------



## BlueShoe

> can anyone blame them? the USD is cooked and everyone knows it. Germany wants their gold back and we're telling them "sure, but only a little bit at a time" and we continue to spend lavishly on programs we can't afford.


Germany is not asking for their gold back anymore. They have probably been convinced that there is no gold left, not even American gold.


----------



## Geek999

Foreign financial institutions have a variety of reasons to reduce exposure to the US. FATCA is on the list. Unfortunately, getting out of a major market is neither easy nor quick. Frankly, major US banks share many of the same problems. I believe what you'll see is not some abrupt exit from the US where a clear crisis occurs. Instead you'll see a slow diminishing of our economy due to a variety of factors includng withdrawal of credit by both US and foreign institutions.

Oh wait! That's already been going on for thhe past 6 years!


----------



## Dakine

BlueShoe said:


> Germany is not asking for their gold back anymore. They have probably been convinced that there is no gold left, not even American gold.


Interesting, do you have a source for that? I've seen numbers on what they have received, but nothing on them not asking for it back anymore.


----------



## Dakine

Geek999 said:


> Foreign financial institutions have a variety of reasons to reduce exposure to the US. FATCA is on the list. Unfortunately, getting out of a major market is neither easy nor quick. Frankly, major US banks share many of the same problems. I believe what you'll see is not some abrupt exit from the US where a clear crisis occurs. Instead you'll see a slow diminishing of our economy due to a variety of factors includng withdrawal of credit by both US and foreign institutions.
> 
> Oh wait! That's already been going on for thhe past 6 years!


I agree, I just wish we didnt have a FED and a .gov that were so anxious to see it happen that they want to seize as much foreign cash as possible before we eventually do crater our economy.


----------



## invision

Geek999 said:


> Foreign financial institutions have a variety of reasons to reduce exposure to the US. FATCA is on the list. Unfortunately, getting out of a major market is neither easy nor quick. Frankly, major US banks share many of the same problems. I believe what you'll see is not some abrupt exit from the US where a clear crisis occurs. Instead you'll see a slow diminishing of our economy due to a variety of factors includng withdrawal of credit by both US and foreign institutions.
> 
> Oh wait! That's already been going on for thhe past 6 years!


Yep, your right... I would, however, love to see the compliance requirements for foreign banks and asset management firms. One of my clients in 2006, spent $450,000 for email compliance for the SEC - 50 man asset management firm - Top 100 in nation... I stopped consulting for them when I had my 3rd HA and a quad bypass on a daily basis - but 7 years later, I know they are still running on the same MS Exchange 2003 email environment... Then in 2009, they were forced to become sas70 compliant, luckily I had already put most of the required standards in place - but still it was a fairly large under taking... So, I can imagine what has been thought up by the creators of this law... For the smaller firms - I can definitely see migrating away from our market - cost factor only...

This space for rent.


----------



## Jimbo777

*Global Collapse Coming on July 1st 2014*

O'Bama has passed a bill that will begin to create massive inflation in the U.S.A.
starting on Tuesday July 1st.

Once the dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency then you will see massive inflation inside the U.S.A. (I'm worried about the food prices!)

China - Russia - Iran and other countries have just about "finished off the dollar" where it is no longer used much in transactions worldwide.

Thus O'Bama has passed a new bill recently, and it goes into effect July 1st

*H.R. 2847*

Go to your favorite search engine and type it in so you can learn more about the upcoming collapse in this country!

J


----------



## BlueShoe

HR indicates House of Representatives, and since Republicans hold the majority in the House, that means Republicans passed the bill.

No offense to you, but Obama didn't do crap and he doesn't control our economic and currency policy. Obama doesn't write laws either. He's a mouthpiece for a group of people with more power than he has. He's just the empty suit.

The global Western economy collapsed in 2007 and has never recovered. The central banks (privately owned) have been selling stockpiled gold into the system to keep this scam going as long as they can and we're reaching the end game of this phony currency scheme that the world banks created. It has NOTHING to do with any President.

Expect a devastating attack in the world (like a nuke or epidemic) that governments will use to distract us from the economic collapse that's coming. "Never let a crisis go to waste." That's the statement by the Republican Neocons in the PNAC document and the quote by a Democrat Rahm Emanuel (who's father was a proven terrorist). The TV/radio talkers have been beating the drums of war for a decade now. It's coming. When technology reaches the point where they can manifest an alien invasion, governments will do that too. When they can project Jesus descending from the heavens, governments will do that too. Keeping the people acting as sheeple is the goal.

I wish we would stop this game of blaming the other party and start acknowledging that these people are our government. Our government passed the NDAA amendment saying they can disappear us like the Soviet communists did.


----------



## Coastal

You almost had me worried for a second.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/hr2847.asp


----------



## Tirediron

@ Blueshoe That is a nice summary of the political state, the financial system, at least the one based on the US federal reserve dollar as a trade standard has been on life support for at least a decade, the longer the life support the harder the crash.....................


----------



## BlueShoe

A person can go to a pawn shop and buy affordable , used gold jewelry if they want to secure some sort of wealth in the coming inflationary period.


----------



## hiwall

> gold jewelry if they want to secure some sort of wealth in the coming inflationary period


To each their own but gold jewelry is about the last thing I would buy.


----------



## Dakine

There are 3 other threads about this law in the Money, Investing and Precious Metals forum. This should probably be moved and consolidated with one of them.


----------



## Dakine

BlueShoe said:


> HR indicates House of Representatives, and since Republicans hold the majority in the House, that means Republicans passed the bill.


Actually, not so much... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress

the law was passed as part of the HIRE Act, it only takes a few seconds to get a little bit of facts, such as the year it was passed, which congress passed it, and who was in control. House = Dems Senate = Dems and WH = Obozo



BlueShoe said:


> No offense to you, but Obama didn't do crap and he doesn't control our economic and currency policy. Obama doesn't write laws either. He's a mouthpiece for a group of people with more power than he has. He's just the empty suit.


agreed. He can influence things, and while he may refuse to obey laws, and he may order his cabinet to ignore laws, and he may do things that are unconstitutional, he is not in control of economic and currency policy. At least not yet, if martial law is declared, then we'll see...



BlueShoe said:


> The global Western economy collapsed in 2007 and has never recovered. The central banks (privately owned) have been selling stockpiled gold into the system to keep this scam going as long as they can and we're reaching the end game of this phony currency scheme that the world banks created. It has NOTHING to do with any President.


2007 may be when some people woke up but that's not when the damage was done. The CRA passed by the Carter Administration created the 2007 bubble, and it's just one of many bubbles that incompetent policy has allowed to happen at the expense of the citizens who apparently are not deemed "too big to fail" unlike the banksters, unions, and the corporations and the politicians they own.



BlueShoe said:


> Expect a devastating attack in the world (like a nuke or epidemic) that governments will use to distract us from the economic collapse that's coming. "Never let a crisis go to waste." That's the statement by the Republican Neocons in the PNAC document and the quote by a Democrat Rahm Emanuel (who's father was a proven terrorist). The TV/radio talkers have been beating the drums of war for a decade now. It's coming. When technology reaches the point where they can manifest an alien invasion, governments will do that too. When they can project Jesus descending from the heavens, governments will do that too. Keeping the people acting as sheeple is the goal.


Scary but very possible. Misdirection has been a tool by those in power for centuries, nothing new under the sun, certainly not in D.C. perhaps to larger scales but not "new" Theft is still theft, graft is still graft and corruption is the law of the land.



BlueShoe said:


> I wish we would stop this game of blaming the other party and start acknowledging that these people are our government. Our government passed the NDAA amendment saying they can disappear us like the Soviet communists did.


They've done that and worse, and it's going to get worse before it gets any better.


----------



## BlueShoe

Yes it will get worse. All well and interesting, but it proves the point that OUR GOVERNMENT passed this (not one man as the talkers want to distract you with), and the President didn't pass this legislation on his own. Plus the other point I'm making is that the dollar collapsed (and never recovered) back in 2007. When it started won't change that it has collapsed now. Presidents don't control dollar policy and thinking they do is making oneself part of the problem and reason we can't focus the attention where the problem is, and that is in the federal reserve system. Remove the President and nothing changes. OUR GOVERNMENT will continue the downward spiral.

Posting threads of an impending/future/coming crash shows that people are not aware that we're operating under a veneer of a currency that's only given the illusion of validity by the running of the printing presses (metaphorically stated, since it's just digits on a ledger). That and the multitude of agreements we have in the world to hold it at a certain level, which is in an ongoing downward pressure as the rest of the world seeks to bypass the USD.

Hiwall, gold jewelry sold at some pawn shops can be had for spot price (or a little above) just as gold coins. The value is determined on the karat weight just as some coins. Many people can't afford to buy coins and many don't trust coins anymore. Junk jewelry or non-junk gold jewelry can be bought at your level of comfort. I can't see why anyone would recommend someone not buy it for it's scrap value. It will be worth what the karat weight is always worth.


----------



## VoorTrekker

Jimbo777 said:


> ...Thus O'Bama has passed a new bill recently, and it goes into effect July 1st
> 
> *H.R. 2847*...


I went onto a couple of search engines and get multiple b*llsh*t links which lead me to a link to lead me to a link...ad nauseum.

Give us a clue as to what is HR2847 and why you think it is important, if you would please.


----------



## Dakine

VoorTrekker said:


> I went onto a couple of search engines and get multiple b*llsh*t links which lead me to a link to lead me to a link...ad nauseum.
> 
> Give us a clue as to what is HR2847 and why you think it is important, if you would please.


VoorTrekker, please check this thread, starting at Post #9 I put in links to the other two threads on this law as well.

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f4/so-china-great-britian-currency-swap-starts-next-week-25079/

in a nutshell 2847 (one of the very bad things) imposes 30% penalty on all foreign transactions that pass through US controlled banks and financial institutions, if those foreign financial institutions do not comply with all of the regulatory burden of this law. We're simply going to take the money. yeahhhhhh.

one thing that is undisputed is that this law will push foreign capital out of the USA, and further isolate the USD currently the reserve dollar for much of the world and when other countries distance themselves from our dollar and all those dollars come flooding back home... it's going to be very ugly.


----------



## *Andi

Merged

....................


----------



## BillM

*Who's Next*

If the government is going after foreign capital that passes through US Banks, who is next when they still need money?

How about all that capital the "Baby Boomers " are hording in those 401 K's?

They don't really need it now that they have Obama Care and Social Security.

It's share the wealth time ! !


----------



## Dakine

BillM said:


> If the government is going after foreign capital that passes through US Banks, who is next when they still need money?
> 
> How about all that capital the "Baby Boomers " are hording in those 401 K's?
> 
> They don't really need it now that they have Obama Care and Social Security.
> 
> It's share the wealth time ! !


They are already doing it. http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2012/12/29/watch-out-your-401k-is-being-targeted/

I've heard discussions on it, that 401k is the last liquid pool of wealth in the country. Take a look at this article...

http://www.ici.org/policy/retirement/plan/401k/faqs_401k

How large are 401(k)s?

As of September 30, 2012, 401(k) plans held an estimated $3.5 trillion in assets and represented approximately 18 percent of the $19.4 trillion U.S. retirement market, which includes employer-sponsored retirement plans, individual retirement accounts (IRAs), and annuities. In comparison, 401(k) assets were $1.6 trillion and represented nearly 15 percent of the U.S. retirement market in 2002.

---------------
why would they do it? Just like you said, time to share the wealth!!

Liberals hate it when people take care of themselves, and they feel that every dollar that is in a "tax break" should be in their tax coffers to be doled out as they see fit while they gather political clout and power. They really do wake up believing that our money is by all rights... THEIRS.

This .gov is off the chain and out of the f'n yard... completely out of control. It's only a matter of time until something snaps.


----------



## VoorTrekker

Dakine, thank you. So any foreign investor who does business in the U.S. even only once has surrendered all of their domestic (in their foreign country) assets to the U.S. government regardless. Also, if any U.S. national does business anywhere else in the world, those assets belong to the U.S. government whenever they decide to confiscate the assets and investments. Got it!


----------



## Dakine

well, not all, just 30%.....


----------



## invision

The thing about taking from 401k's is how?

What is a 401k? It is nothing more than a fund made up of 2-100+ stocks or a series of bonds... Let me stick with the equities side, instead of the fixed income for this statement... Your contribution goes into the fund, the fund manager (called a consultant) outsources the daily management to an asset management (AM) firm. The AM does all the daily monitoring of the fund - buying and selling 1,000s of shares daily... Their primary goal is to increase the wealth of the fund for the consultant, because they get a fraction of a basis point for any increase to the fund - plus any management fees. There are certain amounts held in cash by the consultants for if their clients (you) decide you want to swap out of equities and move to fixed income... That doesn't go down to the AM, it just happens... But that gets technical and outside the point of my statement.... So back to point... 

So if the government swoops in to take a %, it means that the consultant will have to come up with the cash. They will then in turn tell the AM to sell stocks in the fund to create the cash needed by the government... So what happens when the government goes after all the 401k plans? They can't cause the markets would crash immediately due to all the sell orders... 

One of the big 10 did an internal study back around 2000 on the effects of the baby boomers cashing their 401k as well as the retirement accounts being forced to sell their funds to make payments to their retiress.... The date projected for the real start of this was 2010... Basically, this big 10 firm, wanted to shift all accounts to have individuals with a wealth over $3m or something like that because the market won't be able to handle long term sell orders due to not enough buyers.... This statement holds true for the government taking from the 401ks. Someone has to buy the sell order... And if there are hundreds of thousand sell orders - the prices drops and drops... 


This space for rent.


----------



## VoorTrekker

invision, they're plan is to confiscate all of the funds by seizing it from the brokers and fund managers. 
That's how communists do things. That was the plan back in 2008 and they even admitted to it on various radio shows. 

They are also going to liquidate and eliminate all of the Indian Reservations and do a final solution to our Indigenous Americans. That was stated back in 2008 as well. 

The communists running our government don't care about your "hokus pokus" economic theories, they have the economic truth!


----------



## Woody

VoorTrekker said:


> invision, they're plan is to confiscate all of the funds by seizing it from the brokers and fund managers.


Come on now. Who actually believes our beloved government would steal anything from us! Look at Social Security, they never actually stole anything. All the 'value' is still there! Even better now because it is backed by the full faith in our government, not some fly by night investments.

Looking out for our best interests, they will simply take allll the risk out of retirement plans and replace them with government issued IOU's worth all that much more! I mean, when a country like Belgium takes 25% of their GDP and buys govt. bonds, what do they know that we don't?

It is for your own good, for the good of the children, if they do not do this, the terrorists win!


----------



## TheLazyL

IF someone steals my 401K then I'll will give them my investments in my 5.56 plan too!


----------



## LincTex

invision said:


> Someone has to buy the sell order... And if there are hundreds of thousand sell orders - the prices drops and drops....


I saw it happen in 2008, It'll happen again


----------



## Geek999

LincTex said:


> I saw it happen in 2008, It'll happen again


I've said a couple times that the economic collapse happened in 2008, but you're the first one to notice.


----------



## invision

LincTex said:


> I saw it happen in 2008, It'll happen again


In 2008, it wasn't the government taking the 401ks...it was the combination of different bubbles popping - but I disagree with the start date too.. Go back to the dot com bust - that was the start, it recovered way to quickly because of the housing push....

I think you are missing my point folks. A 401k has no "cash" in it to take. If the government were to seize them, then they would seize the stocks and bonds that make up the investments in the plan. Immediately the valuation of the stocks - MSFT, CSCO, WAL, XOM, etc across all the major boards would go to zero... They would be holding paper... However they would be holding most of the major corporations or a large percentage... Now the earnings of the companies would provide some cash to the government, but not for long.... A couple months max... If that.

Now forcing the purchase of government debt err. Bonds - yep I see that - MyRA is a prime example...

This space for rent.


----------



## TheLazyL

Dakine said:


> That is a big one right there. That may very well be what pushes us over the edge, straight into the abyss.


RATS!

So busy at work I forgot the financial market was forecast to collapse 2 days ago and I missed it! What happened?


----------



## Dakine

TheLazyL said:


> RATS!
> 
> So busy at work I forgot the financial market was forecast to collapse 2 days ago and I missed it! What happened?


The DowJones hit 17,000 :rofl: and the July 1 thing wasnt the collapse, it was just the day that HIRE/FATCA/HR2847 took effect.

market collapse... eh, no not yet.... but a healthy thing for us to do to our economy? Hell NO!!!


----------



## BlueShoe

Geek999 said:


> I've said a couple times that the economic collapse happened in 2008, but you're the first one to notice.


Several of us have been reminding people of that. I don't think people truly accept it because they can still buy things with federal reserve currency, so it doens't look collapsed. They get it, but then they don't. _SQUIRREL!_


----------

