# Move or Stay... ... ...



## solak (Feb 3, 2009)

Just a point of interest, I see lot of good info on stocking up, but if you needed to move over distance, what's your plan?

What's your wild survival strategy?

Do you have a plane "Z" or if it goes relay pear shaped plan "Z.99" 




Just food for thought.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

For me, it would have to be a catastrophic NBC attack to warrant a bug-out. 

I have "fall-back plans #xxx, #xxx+x, and #xxx+xx" which involve different vehicles (or horses  ), which are less than ideal due to the prioritizing of supplies & weight limitations involved.


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

Once a person/family/group has to move from where they currently are, they are then considered a "refugee" even if they have somewhere they are going. 

Refugee - Someone seeking refuge from somewhere/someone/something. 

A caravan of refugees with weaponry hanging off the tops of trucks becomes a "force" because they cannot be easily dealt with without using force.

If it's a zombie free-for-all, then so be it. Hit the local Nat'l Guard Armory, stock up and bust some caps, however unlikely that may be....

Realistically, if one must depart their current location due to natural disaster or escape from what can be considered an unsafe or unsecured living condition, the chances are good that you and/or your group won't be the only ones taking that path. 

What does this mean for you? It means that those folks that are already "in place" and not "outsider refugee types" are going to be watching out for the "travelers". 

Some may be willing to help with food and water, possibly medical supplies or assistance, but, if things have really gotten to the point where there are mass "evacuations" or people decide on their own to egress that situation, it'll be slim pickins and probably less of a chance of any type of real "help" along your route.

The only feasible way I see movement across distance to another area is with a well armed, self sufficient group who have everything they need already and are just traveling. Anything less than that just becomes prey in the big scheme of things.

It's a lot easier to either find a place to secure and stay for a day or two, or to request permission to stay, when the hosts don't have to give anything in return.

For the "prepared", a plan should already be in place or have already TAKEN place by the time the sheeple take to the streets. If, for some reason, that is not the case, then I hope for their sakes they take a route "less traveled".

My extended family has some land deep "up a holler" that we would go to if things got to the point that we had to leave our current homes. It's an hour and 20 mins during "normal" times on the fast route. 2 or so on the 2 lanes, and 2.5-3 hrs through the sticks and mountains. Days if we really have to do some ridge running.
That's in a vehicle. 

If we had to go "rucked up" with the families, by way of leather personnel carrier, it would be 43 miles over the river and through the woods to grandmother's house if we go....so to speak. With a 2yr old, 10yr old, 11yr old, 15yr old, two former grunts, two emt's, one hairdresser and one homemaker. LOL. What a band THAT would be, meandering around out in the woods and trying to be somewhat tactical. hahaha.

Needless to say, we have a Bug Out Location to go to if things get wild around here, but without vehicles it will be a logistical challenge to get the whole posse there on foot. It's definitely a last ditch thing. 

Our plan, since we rent a small house smack in the center of a neighborhood which is both houses and apartmentsheepleville is to try to hang tight as long as we can, then cruise over to the matriarch's place 5 miles away....then, if we gotta go, we gotta go en masse to our BOL.


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## solak (Feb 3, 2009)

@ Claymore5150

That is one of the best answers I've ever read. Thanks

The unexpected is just that... unexpected and despite are best efforts we can all get blind sided from time to time.


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

Thanks solak!

I loved the question that you posed, as well. It really helps me to assess and re-think exactly what I'd be up against in that type of situation from multiple points of view.

One of the things that kinda freaks me out a little, is that even in the rural areas around here...which is east of Knoxville by about 45 minutes, the population density is so much higher than I originally thought. Every where I look I see houses and farmland...which is SOMEBODY'S property. Lots of fences, lots of houses and neighborhoods.

It really made me think over the weekend, "How in the heck do I move a group of people that sized, with kids, etc, from point A to point B safely, considering we have to go on foot and try to remain somewhat defensively effective but also as non-threatening as possible..." It really IS a situation that I'd rather NOT be tasked with leading or planning (and my chosen post-military career is LOGISTICS, haha).


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## Dove150 (Jun 5, 2011)

Claymore, living outside of Knoxville as you do, are you planning to run to the mountains like everybody else in Ga. Ala. Tenn and Fla. if they can get there?

I would imagine anything bad enough to make everybody run (nuke?) would cause a traffic jam from Fla to Tenn and everywhere in between in the first twenty minutes.

I think anything that bad and your chances are much better staying put. You might have to make a quick shelter, but I'd rather try that than join in a mass exodus and dying on the road out in the open. Even if you think you can take enough supplies with you, there are going to be a lot of desperate people around you.

Also, if you are on the road it might be easier to get rounded up and sent somewhere, for your own protection of course.

I guess the best solution is if you don't already live at your BOL then you might think about what it would take to make your bug in location work.


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

Dove, we do have family land on the mountain that we can go to as a last resort, but we plan on bugging-in, either at our current place or at the in-laws 5 miles away.

Sis in-law, her hubby and two sons live about 175yds away from us, the parents at 5 miles down the road. My parents and the whole clan of both sets of families live 43mi away ON/IN/AROUND the mountain. Throw a baseball and it's in the Cherokee Forest. Shoot in the air, it comes down in Pisgah on the NC side of the hill.

I live in a neighborhood loaded with houses and apartment complexes currently. 

Can you imagine living smack in the middle of a sheeplehood? Man, it sucks. I'd be afraid to run a generator if the power went out...it's THAT bad. We would be a neighborhood refugee camp and I don't want that.

We are totally looking to move somewhere else with less population around us this summer. I finally got my better half involved in the prep lifestyle after years of her laughing at me and calling me a spam hoarder. hahaha

I'm pretty sure that if there's a slow breakdown of things, we'd be long gone and at the BOL by the time the government stepped in, but if the bomb drops or something happens to the power plants in the TVA region and the rads/dosimeters start ticking all of a sudden, it could get very interesting, for sure.

You're right. The interstates would be a flipping parking lot in every direction. We have multiple routes "off the beaten path" that we can take and the right vehicle to do it if we have to. Luckily, the interstates are the "fast" route and we have so many other options to get there without using them or any highly traveled roads for that matter.

We'd be up the creek if an EMP or something knocked out the vehicle electronics. It's a long, long, long walk with kids and gear. We'd have to have preps staged at the BOL because we'd never be able to physically carry any of it. An egress like that would have to be only the necessities on our backs.

We have the land, family members, and basics at the BOL....and as for defenses...it's as ******* hillbilly as it can get and armed to the teeth. (tooth?)
We're talking WAY farther up the holler than Popcorn Sutton.  We're talking pretty snake, shake a snake, please don't bite me country. haha.

And as for all of those "others" that plan on running to the mountains, they have another thing coming. 
Unless they are immediate family, chances are slim they'll even be "allowed" in the area. Mountain folk are a different breed. 
They'll pull a gun on you NOW if they don't know you or your family by sight... 
Imagine a bunch of "outsiders" trying to camp out on the family lands they've had for 5 to 10 generations? 

Luckily, we have those bases firmly covered and family deeply rooted (family tree is one root but it's deep, haha) in those hills. 

I can only imagine the chaos in the National Parks, though. We wouldn't be anywhere near that mess though.

Internment camps....yeah, good ole martial law and camps "for your safety". It won't fly with the guardsmen around here, so that'll buy us a few days before someone figures out that they're not gonna be doing that type of thing. They'd have to fly in the 101st which is an hour and a half of rotor time from Ft. Campbell and by the time they got around to doing that, we'd be right where we need to be.

We are just fortunate enough to live in a right-wing part of the country who is VERY well armed, pretty doggone self sufficient, and doesn't really give a crap about what "the man" says, hahaha.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Stay. In the past, I have compared bugging out to jumping out of a multi-story building thats on fire. Its a risky move and getting hurt is a real possibility.

Other than some hazard like radiation that could render an area uninhabitable for years, I can't imagine ever bugging out. 

My family is here. My "community" is here. So is all my "stuff". My location is probably a lot better than most others. I'll stick.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> Stay. In the past, I have compared bugging out to jumping out of a multi-story building thats on fire. Its a risky move and getting hurt is a real possibility.
> 
> Other than some hazard like radiation that could render an area uninhabitable for years, I can't imagine ever bugging out.
> 
> My family is here. My "community" is here. So is all my "stuff". My location is probably a lot better than most others. I'll stick.


Ditto. I live at my BOL. I'm not so attached I won't ditch it in a crisis, but the reality is that the only crisis that would force me to move would probably involve mushroom clouds, at which point it's probably too late anyway.


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah, it would take a really nasty societal breakdown for us to leave where we are, that's for sure.


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## Dove150 (Jun 5, 2011)

"We have the land, family members, and basics at the BOL....and as for defenses...it's as ******* hillbilly as it can get and armed to the teeth. (tooth?)
We're talking WAY farther up the holler than Popcorn Sutton. We're talking pretty snake, shake a snake, please don't bite me country. haha."

My sister married a guy with mountain roots and her first visit to the mountains with her husband and his parents was a trip. They were way back in the "snakey shakey" area. She said until the relatives recognized her father-in-law as family and friend one guy wouldn't come down out of a tree. She said they all knew they were being watched on the drive up, but after it was all sorted out they were welcomed with open arms and had a wonderful visit.

And yes, any city folk who think they are going to run to the mountains for safety, if they make it, are going to be in for a shock when they get there. 

I also live in sheeplehood, but I'm hopeful that a lot of them are going to be the ones leaving, but then, I also feel the Lord has all of us just exactly where we are supposed to be and after all we were chosen to live in these times. My BOL is pretty much Psalms 91.


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## UrbanMan (Feb 23, 2011)

I am preparing to Bug In, consolidating four family groups at one location. Even though we are preparing to Bug In, we have a Bug Out plan, two actually,.....an emergency Bug Out procedure and a controlled Bug Out procedure. We only have two Bug Out locations, generally about 110 degrees difference from our Bug In Location, at distances between 45 and 65 miles. We would choose the Bug Out location (and route) based on what we know at that time.

Primary transportation is vehicles; alternate transportation is bicycles and carts (I know, I know but it's what we have); contingency transportation is boot leather (on foot). We have two routes (primary and alternate to the north bug out location, and three routes to the east Bug Out location.

At any location, be it a Safe Bug In location, primary Bug Out location, temporary halt or patrol base, we would always select a Rally Point (temporary Bug Out location) in case we either became separated or were forceably separated.

Once we get to either Bug Out location, we will determine (and prepare) another one or two Bug Out locations. We have a general plan on where these will be but will reconnoiter them once we arrive at the plannd Bug Out site.

So my point is, no matter how sure you are of staying in a Bug In location, or whatever you call a semi-permanent or permanent location, you should always have a Bug Out location with Rally Points enroute there.

be safe all, 
UrbanMan 
www.urbansurvivalskills.com


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