# Modern Warefare



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I was thinking the other day about how I would like a few class three weapons. Granted its a re-occuring thought, yes my name is Padre and I am a gun nut, no recovery in sight.

The NFA stamp is not an issue for me, what is is the cost of full registered full autos since the traitors (I mean congress) passed the Gun act in the 80s that banned the new production of full autos (an illegal law that I hope someone challenges again soon). Imagine if every wahoo and there uncle could manufacture a M16, like they do the AR15s these days, at the cost of $1500... Anyway...

Thinking about weapons and ammo, and where I might get some in a WROL situation, I came to realize that the biggest advantage any OpFor (lets call them the "zombie hoard") will have is not auto weapons or even artillery, both of which I think the creative prepper could acquire if the rule of law broke down (its not stealing if you have paid for it every April 18th for most of your life). The biggest advantage that anyone COULD have is technology, namely radio communications, satellites with IR, etc... I read a cool article the other day at SHTFplan about low tech solutions to high tech tyranny and it got me thinking are there any ways to take away the advantage that a (let's say) "biker gang" might have if they show up to your house with military radios (including sat based), nightvision, ir, etc...

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/low-tech-solutions-to-high-tech-tyranny_05242012


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

LOL. Okay. That was hillarious. 

I love that link. Try all that.


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## urbanprepper (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the link!

one way i plan to take away the advantage of a group trying to take what i have, is the location. I have the better part of 1-3 miles of open land on either side of me (or rather, open water, and of my bug out location) so the water alone is a strong safety precaution.

I also plan on having some rather large flood lights set up, pointing away from my house, which would make night vision useless.

Now, that being said, it does require constant watch.


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## echo1432 (May 16, 2012)

So I have heard a lot of people go on and on about how much they want a full auto gun, heck I just want an authentic mp5 without breaking the bank, but back to the point. How many people really know why M16A2/A4 and M4s have burst fire instead of full? Well back in this jungle conflict they found the ratio of shots fired to enemies killed was very high and after research determined that most guys where just shooting full auto simply because they could. How to fix this? Get rid of full auto and place emphasis on well aimed shots (controlled pairs if you will).

What I'm trying to say is this, even with my M4 I have only used burst fire a few times, and simply on the range for shits and giggles. Do you need full auto? No. The old saying goes it will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. A well aimed shot with good fundamentals will outweigh all that lead you think you can throw down range.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

echo1432 said:


> So I have heard a lot of people go on and on about how much they want a full auto gun, heck I just want an authentic mp5 without breaking the bank, but back to the point. How many people really know why M16A2/A4 and M4s have burst fire instead of full? Well back in this jungle conflict they found the ratio of shots fired to enemies killed was very high and after research determined that most guys where just shooting full auto simply because they could. How to fix this? Get rid of full auto and place emphasis on well aimed shots (controlled pairs if you will).
> 
> What I'm trying to say is this, even with my M4 I have only used burst fire a few times, and simply on the range for shits and giggles. Do you need full auto? No. The old saying goes it will shoot as fast as you can pull the trigger. A well aimed shot with good fundamentals will outweigh all that lead you think you can throw down range.


I was watching one of those gun shows on channel 9806 or something like that and former Ranger and a former SEAL were comparing the AK47 with the M-14. They setup 2 identical arays of targets at about 100 yards away. Each contestant had about 10 targets to hit. The Ranger had the AK47 that was setup for full auto with 30 round magazines and 3 spare magazines and the SEAL had the M-14 with 4 full magazines and would fire single shot. The firing started and the SEAL shot all 10 target in about 14 shots and the AK47 was still firing and had emptied the first magazine and half way through the second magazine and had only hit about 6 of the targets.

It seamed obvious to me that firing full auto may get your rocks off but is not a smart use of the weapon.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Yep they are fun to shoot and they are very expensive and require a lot of ammo to be able to have any fun with them, but unless you have more money than you know what to do with and don't care that you will be one of the first they come after since they know who has the "legal" full autos, I honestly can't see the point in getting one.

In MHO and from my experience unless you are in on an ambush, attempting to take out a large force of troops comming at you, laying down supressive fire, defending a static position (and have a butt load of belted ammo), or clearing a room with a sub gun they are a total waste of ammo in a combat situation.

A well placed round from an accurate semi-auto, bolt gun, single shot or any other non fully auto firearm can get you that full auto weapon your enemy was toting and of course by then all bets are off and it is no longer a "legal issue" if you have full auto capability..

I do like the three round burst fire capability, as it still allows you to put three aimed rounds down range most Riki Tik.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

http://www.classicfirearms.com/accessories?cat=28

They work and are legal! NOT AOW!/class III


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

And the price dropped!!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Every year when I have to re-qualify with my M6, the full-auto portion seems the least fun to me. I much prefer firing it in semi-auto mode, as it is much more accurate and easier to control. Perhaps it is a simple lack of trigger time with it on full-auto, but I actually prefer semi. As has been said before, "spray and pray" is not terribly effective.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

bahramthered said:


> LOL. Okay. That was hillarious.
> 
> I love that link. Try all that.


That's quite a ridiculous statement you have in your signature. Democracy in Wisconsin got rid of collective bargaining for the public employee unions who still suffer from an extreme sense of entitlement. By doing so they turned a $3.6 billion deficit into a surplus. The schools were no longer forced to buy health insurance at astronomical prices from the unions. I voted for Scott Walker. Most people in Wisconsin did.

It's hard to understand the mentality of people who think average people should be taxed into bankruptcy so rich public employees can have wages and benefits that those of us in the private sector can never have.

What happened in 2010 wasn't the end of democracy. It was the triumph of democracy over slavery.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

BillS said:


> That's quite a ridiculous statement you have in your signature. Democracy in Wisconsin got rid of collective bargaining for the public employee unions who still suffer from an extreme sense of entitlement. By doing so they turned a $3.6 billion deficit into a surplus. The schools were no longer forced to buy health insurance at astronomical prices from the unions. I voted for Scott Walker. Most people in Wisconsin did.
> 
> It's hard to understand the mentality of people who think average people should be taxed into bankruptcy so rich public employees can have wages and benefits that those of us in the private sector can never have.
> 
> What happened in 2010 wasn't the end of democracy. It was the triumph of democracy over slavery.


You notice that now? I've had it for weeks.

I'm not going to debate Wisconsin politics with you, despite how I feel on the issue and your characterization of the issue.

I have a simple statistic. 94% of all elections go down to whoever has spent the most money. Citizens united opened the flood gates for money (the first date)

You know on the same day I quote that in California a test study in this issue happened. Californians where over 70 percent in favor of increasing cigarette taxes to directly support cancer research 3 months before the election. Cigarette companies drop a few billion in a state with one of the lowest smoking rates in the country. They win on election day defeating the referendum.

A democracy for sale will soon be an aristocracy. This one isn't by blood but by money. All hail the Koch brothers.


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## Jack Aubrey (May 24, 2009)

All these weapons shared the battlefield with full auto weapons, and did quite well. JA


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## liamsdeely (Apr 16, 2012)

I can tell you right now that the No.1 Mk.III still is one of the best rifles available.


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## Onebigelf (Sep 17, 2011)

Yeah, but that .303 British is getting haaard to come by.

John


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Right now, before SHTF, everyone can have fun with dreaming about the best rifle,shotgun or hand gun is but after TSHTF, the best firearm will be the one you can find ammo for.


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## Jack Aubrey (May 24, 2009)

Onebigelf said:


> Yeah, but that .303 British is getting haaard to come by.
> 
> John


I bought 5000 rounds of Sellier & Bellot ball ammo 10 years ago , and 3000 rounds of Remington .303 British hunting ammo. I still have all of it sealed up airtight. I buy new .303 British cases from Midway USA , powder ,and primers. I cast my own bullets. I actually like my homemade ammo more than factory stuff.JA


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## chris88idaho (Apr 30, 2012)

I shot more than a few full auto weapons, it is over rated. Find a local range where you can rent one for the day. After the inertial rush of burning a clip, you can see the waste of ammo and in effectiveness of it. The only round that counts is the one that hit the target


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

chris88idaho said:


> I shot more than a few full auto weapons, it is over rated. ...


Spray and pray. Then stick you head up to see if it worked and get shot by a bolt action single shot rifle. Diffidently ruins your day.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Scary is some guy unloading a full auto weapon. Terrifying is when every shot you hear someone drops dead. Make every round count. Unless you stumble across a .50 cal machine gun with lotsa ammo and then its just a plain good time!!


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## Jack Aubrey (May 24, 2009)

mojo4 said:


> Scary is some guy unloading a full auto weapon. Terrifying is when every shot you hear someone drops dead. Make every round count....


Even if it's not a "kill shot", it takes one guy out of the fight , and probably 2 or 3 more to medivac him. Look at what the North Vietnamese did. JA


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*Autos are autos*



chris88idaho said:


> I shot more than a few full auto weapons, it is over rated. Find a local range where you can rent one for the day. After the inertial rush of burning a clip, you can see the waste of ammo and in effectiveness of it. The only round that counts is the one that hit the target


I have shot my fair share as well, not really interested in a M4, but a M240 SAW, now that's an automatic weapon!!! And while versus 1, 2, or 10 zombies a well place semi-auto shot might work best, an auto is an auto and has its purpose. Namely: INTIMIDATION, taking out multiple charging opponents, and keeping heads down.

The main reason I want one thou, if I am honest about it, is because the Guberment illegally says I can't have one, at least not a new one....

But that is not point of the original tread post. I was premising the question on the idea that auto-weapons and artillery are not the decisive factor in Modern warefare. The decisive factor is technology.

So...wondering if anyone has any other ideas about countermeasures for modern military technology, particularly coms?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Auto vs single shot.

Which is best? 

Son and I (when we were both younger) would have Nerf gun wars. He would choose the 10 shot rifle with the hand crank. As fast as he could crank he could fire the darts.
That left me with the single shot Nerf pistol.

I would raw his fire and then duck behind cover. Whizz, thump as his darts flew over the sofa or hit it. As soon as I heard click click I would jump up and shot in right between the eyes. Son was amazed that I beat him! Never did tell him it was a lucky shoot on my part.

Point is it’s not so much the weapon as it is the experience and training of the one using it.


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