# Combat Hunter



## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

A while back I wrote a series I titled combat hunter after the Marines Combat Hunter training program... kind of a how too think like one...
anyway I have 3 parts (Chapters) writen out so far... have a touch of writers block going on a part 4 but I'll get around to it...
anyway here the link to my story
https://sites.google.com/site/grandpassurvivalshack/home/combat-hunter-chapter-1


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Interesting read, I especially liked this part:


> My bud focused his binoculars on the spot I pointed out, but still could not see the
> Elk&#8230; They blended fairly well with the dark spruce, but to me, they might have wearing blaze orange vests&#8230; What gave them away were their backs &#8230; the only horizontal lines among a mass of vertical ones&#8230;*Almost everything that grows is along a vertical plane&#8230; up's and down's&#8230;four legged animals are always on a horizontal plane*&#8230; so the trick is to look for the things that are out of place&#8230; Not until one of the calves moved was my partner able to pick them out. Looking for horizontal lines in a forest is one of the first tricks I learned in the outdoors&#8230;. Sure I see a great many fallen logs and rocks, but I also see game which would otherwise escape my notice&#8230;
> 
> Another thing I learned early is *never to look for an entire animal*&#8230; You will seldom ever see one in a bush until you have waited it out and it steps into the open&#8230; If you want to see a squirrel on a high oak, don't look for a squirrel&#8230; Rather look for the tip of a tail, the odd comer of a head ticking out, or a bump on a branch that may be the bushy-tail's back, and so on&#8230;


I have noticed the same things when I learned to hunt. The first deer I ever saw while sitting on a deer stand I first thought was a man with a white ball cap on. I quickly learned that I would not see a whole deer until it was very close. I had to do just as you said and look for things that didnt appear to belong.

Another thing I have learned while hunting is that if you are quiet and still (like hunting from a stand or blind) you will almost always hear the animal before you see it. But kinda like you will never _see _a whole deer you will never _hear _a whole deer. I learned that if I wanted to hear a deer I needed to listen for squirrel. I have seen many deer that I heard long before I saw them even when the area is open enough that you would think you could see them before you could hear them. Sounds travel well if you are quiet and listening for them.

I enjoyed this very much, thanks! :congrat:


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Since I have hunted a fairly good amount (mostly stands and blinds, though I have stalked a bit (much less fruitful for me)) I am good a looking/listening for game. On the other hand I know little about how to avoid detection from a person looking for me... I know a bit about hiding from game and I am sure that plays into it but do you have anything I can read about going undetected by man? Perhaps its simpler than I think? Another interesting topic to me, kinda unrelated maybe, is about how to clear a building in an urban setting -- how to enter a house etc. Dunno if you know anything about this or would like to post anything. Thanks again!


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

TheAnt said:


> Since I have hunted a fairly good amount (mostly stands and blinds, though I have stalked a bit (much less fruitful for me)) I am good a looking/listening for game. On the other hand I know little about how to avoid detection from a person looking for me... I know a bit about hiding from game and I am sure that plays into it but do you have anything I can read about going undetected by man? Perhaps its simpler than I think? Another interesting topic to me, kinda unrelated maybe, is about how to clear a building in an urban setting -- how to enter a house etc. Dunno if you know anything about this or would like to post anything. Thanks again!


Your talking about MOUT Ops... MOUT
not fun... no sir... Takes a team to pull off and when I step threw the door you better be right on my heel.... Interesting side note... Once upon a time we could use silly string to find the trip lines... but they caught on to our trick and now use micro pressure switches....

here's the thing... clearing a building in not something you can tackle by yourself... even then... the risks are way high you'll lose someone....


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

grandpadave said:


> Your talking about MOUT Ops... MOUT
> not fun... no sir... Takes a team to pull off and when I step threw the door you better be right on my heel.... Interesting side note... Once upon a time we could use silly string to find the trip lines... but they caught on to our trick and now use micro pressure switches....
> 
> here's the thing... clearing a building in not something you can tackle by yourself... even then... the risks are way high you'll lose someone....


I hear what you are saying and I respect your opinion. Still, there have been a couple times I suspected someone in my own home (luckily I was wrong) and wondered how to clear it and expose myself the least. Surely there are some guidelines. I will look into your link. Thanks!

Also I dont mean to get off topic -- excellent post on your blog!


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

In your own home... that's different.... still read the MOUT book... it'll teach you about things like kill zones... meaning never stand in a door or window... that'll just get you shot...

there are other tips... dont use a flashlight... that just tells them right where you are... instead flip on the room lights... make your bedroom into a saferoom... do things like install a steel door beef up the door jam too so it cant be kicked in... just gather up the kids lock the door and call the cops...

remember too there is no such thing as a safe bullet inside the home... a few years back the FBI tested a bunch of different ammo and found all of then were still just as deadly after passing threw normal home use Sheetrock... why just look back at the wounded knee incident and their weeks long siege with the government... first people killed were hiding inside the church... the rifle bullets just came right through the walls...


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

grandpadave said:


> In your own home... that's different.... still read the MOUT book... it'll teach you about things like kill zones... meaning never stand in a door or window... that'll just get you shot...
> 
> there are other tips... dont use a flashlight... that just tells them right where you are... instead flip on the room lights... make your bedroom into a saferoom... do things like install a steel door beef up the door jam too so it cant be kicked in... just gather up the kids lock the door and call the cops...
> 
> remember too there is no such thing as a safe bullet inside the home... a few years back the FBI tested a bunch of different ammo and found all of then were still just as deadly after passing threw normal home use Sheetrock... why just look back at the wounded knee incident and their weeks long siege with the government... first people killed were hiding inside the church... the rifle bullets just came right through the walls...


Yep, excellent points and very good advice. :thumbraise:

I will add that if you are using a shotgun for home defense, I would suggest #8 or #9 bird shot. A lot less wall penetration and they are still just as dead as they would be using a .44mag. I would also suggest using a 410 guage or 28 guage to further lessen the chance of over penetration. Most shootings indoors happen from a range of three to seven feet, so no matter what guage you use it will still put them down.

Now having said that about shooting let me add this:
CQB/MOUT is not something that can be taught overnight and you need an experienced/qualified instructor (either Military or SWAT) if you want to learn the basics.

When I taught self/home defense, I also said make your bedroom or whatever room you designate a safe room. Have a plan to get everyone into the safe room where they can be protected.
Now comes one of the parts that I get arguements over. 
I have always taught my students that your place is in that safe room guarding your family. Have everyone take cover including yourself (maintain coverage of the door) and designate one person to call 911 and keep the dispatcher on the line.
Yell to the intruder that you are armed and if they come through the door they will be shot. This allows your shouted warning to be recorded and if you do have to shoot, it will back up what you had to do.

I know that male pride being what it is a lot of men will get the "John Wayne" syndrome and after beating their chests will say something like "nobody is going to come in my home and take what they want without getting shot".

Well its like grandpawdave said you are not properly trained on how to clear a room and you don't know exactly where the bad guys are and what cover he/they are using. When you walk out of that room he/they certainly know where you are and guess who has the advantage. 
You job is to protect your family not to try being a hero and run around "slaying dragons". If the bad guy shoots you and puts you out of comission, who then will protect your family?

The next point of arguement I get is when do you use deadly force.
My answer is : If you feel that you or your families lives are in immediate danger and you can take the bad guys out with little or no risk to yourself then you must make the decision wheather or not to shoot.

I also ask my students these questions: Is a CD player worth someone's life?
Are you going to shoot that 17yr. old punk in the back as he is walking out with your property?
Do you think that you would be able to convince a jury that shooting him was the only way to stop him from stealing your property?
Do you think that you would be able to live with yourself after doing it?
Property can be replaced and a human life can't.

Yes I know that you will be angry or even enraged, but just think about what I have said and above all keep your cool and really think about your actions before acting on impulse, if you ever find yourself in that type of situation.


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

just to add to OldVets insights...

If I'm engaged in the nasty business of clearing a room I like a short barreled weapon... it swings faster and doesn't give a combatant a handle to grab onto... in other words I prefer my daily carry... my Ruger P944... but keep in mind I spent well over 20 years in the military 8 of those years as a mountain warfare instructor... proper training makes all the diff...


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

grandpadave said:


> just to add to OldVets insights...
> 
> If I'm engaged in the nasty business of clearing a room I like a short barreled weapon... it swings faster and doesn't give a combatant a handle to grab onto... in other words I prefer my daily carry... my Ruger P944... but keep in mind I spent well over 20 years in the military 8 of those years as a mountain warfare instructor... proper training makes all the diff...


Absolutely agree. Mine is a Taurus PT1911. 
To add just a little to your post. Folks if you are trying to clear a room, don't stick your weapon around the corner first before your body. This ain't hollywood, it's real life or death your are dealing with. If you poke your weapon out or around before you do a quick peek or enter the room, it can easily be taken from you if there is someone waiting around that corner.

grandpawdave and I have laid out some good advice so I hope it at least makes you stop and think.


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

Winks to OldVet...

Ya got a nice gun, one of my favs... I swore I would never swap my .40 S&W... very hard to beat those 165gr golden sabers for one shot stops.... but I recently found a new love... it's no secret to those who know me...know I'm a huge Ruger fan... and when I saw their new Sr1911... it was lust at first sight... I already have my name on a list for one... and for a tricked out 1911... they sell for under $650 
go peek
Ruger SR1911 45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

grandpadave said:


> Winks to OldVet...
> 
> Ya got a nice gun, one of my favs... I swore I would never swap my .40 S&W... very hard to beat those 165gr golden sabers for one shot stops.... but I recently found a new love... it's no secret to those who know me...know I'm a huge Ruger fan... and when I saw their new Sr1911... it was lust at first sight... I already have my name on a list for one... and for a tricked out 1911... they sell for under $650
> go peek
> Ruger SR1911 45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol


Thanks. I do like it.
I am also a Ruger fan and I carried a P90 for years, I have two 10-22's, a Mark I (my Wife's) and just got my daughter a Mark III.
My first love has always been a 1911 so when I got the chance to swap my P90 for the 1911 I jumped on it. I am still trying to figure out how I am going to convince MaMa that I need that Ruger SR1911.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

oldvet said:


> When I taught self/home defense, I also said make your bedroom or whatever room you designate a safe room. Have a plan to get everyone into the safe room where they can be protected.
> Now comes one of the parts that I get arguements over.
> I have always taught my students that your place is in that safe room guarding your family. Have everyone take cover including yourself (maintain coverage of the door) and designate one person to call 911 and keep the dispatcher on the line.
> Yell to the intruder that you are armed and if they come through the door they will be shot. This allows your shouted warning to be recorded and if you do have to shoot, it will back up what you had to do.
> ...


I hear what you are saying but have you ever been in the situation? I havnt but I doubt I am going to be stopping to question the motives of the intruder. I am going to assume that his intentions are not good and maybe even the worst of intentions and I am going to shoot first and ask questions later. This doesnt mean I am excited about shooting someone when/if the time comes it just means that I dont think you would have the luxury of time to assume that if you advertise that you have a gun that he will just want to leave. Id rather be in jail than dead. Id rather be in jail than have my family hurt because I was afraid to shoot someone.

Just as is the rule in hunting you have to know what your target is before you pull the trigger but after that point the intruders intentions may as well be to kill, rape and pillage and I will be damned if I hesitate. Obviously if some guys is running down the street with my stereo Im not going to take chase and shoot him... though I may take chase ;O).


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

grandpadave said:


> Winks to OldVet...
> 
> Ya got a nice gun, one of my favs... I swore I would never swap my .40 S&W... very hard to beat those 165gr golden sabers for one shot stops.... but I recently found a new love... it's no secret to those who know me...know I'm a huge Ruger fan... and when I saw their new Sr1911... it was lust at first sight... I already have my name on a list for one... and for a tricked out 1911... they sell for under $650
> go peek
> Ruger SR1911 45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol


I thought only Buffy Tyler could make me drool like that!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> I hear what you are saying but have you ever been in the situation? I havnt but I doubt I am going to be stopping to question the motives of the intruder. I am going to assume that his intentions are not good and maybe even the worst of intentions and I am going to shoot first and ask questions later. This doesnt mean I am excited about shooting someone when/if the time comes it just means that I dont think you would have the luxury of time to assume that if you advertise that you have a gun that he will just want to leave. Id rather be in jail than dead. Id rather be in jail than have my family hurt because I was afraid to shoot someone.
> 
> Just as is the rule in hunting you have to know what your target is before you pull the trigger but after that point the intruders intentions may as well be to kill, rape and pillage and I will be damned if I hesitate. Obviously if some guys is running down the street with my stereo Im not going to take chase and shoot him... though I may take chase ;O).


Ant,

Don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying that you should never shoot an intruder, what I am saying IMO, is that your first priority should be the safety of your family. You can't protect them if you run out of your bedroom with your gun and get yourself shot. 
What I am saying is give yourself every advantage that you can.

To answer your question no I haven't shot anyone since Vietnam.
I have had several encounters with would be burglars and because of my training, I was able to subdue them and turn them over to the police. Again please forget all of the BS bravado that a lot of men talk (not aimed at you) and really stop and think before you decide to confront a bad guy in your home.

Both of the times I confronted the individuals I was home alone (thank the Lord) and I didn't have anyone but myself to worry about.
As I said I have had extensive training and experience in "room clearing" and have trained others. 
So yes I went hunting them and was able to subdue them with no problem. When the light flips on and you are staring at the wrong end of a 1911 .45ACP that is being held by someone that is standing at least six feet from you, well those fellows did about the only smart thing they could do and surrendered.

There was absolutely no reason for me to shoot either one of those scum bags and I explained my reasoning in that earlier post.

I realize that everyone thinks and acts differently and everyone has a different "boiling point" so if you or anyone else gets angry enough and decides to confront the bad guy/guys and don't have the proper training to do so I wish you all of the luck in the world because you will need it.

I can only speak for myself when I say that if it ever happens again and I am not alone, my place will be in our bedroom covering the door while my wife is on the phone with 911. If after being warned the individual is stupid enough to come through our bedroom door, he will be toe tag dead most rikitik. Is this cowardice on my part? Nope, as I said I am going to protect my family.

I refuse to shoot anyone that is not a direct threat to me or my family.

Everything that I have said is totally my opinion and I am not getting down on anyone in any way shape or form, I am just giving alternatives to getting in a gun fight.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Ant,
> 
> Don't misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying that you should never shoot an intruder, what I am saying IMO, is that your first priority should be the safety of your family. You can't protect them if you run out of your bedroom with your gun and get yourself shot.
> What I am saying is give yourself every advantage that you can.
> ...


I appreciate the information you have and there is no doubt you have more training and experience than me (that doesnt take much either btw). All I am saying is that I dont want to put myself or my family at any disadvantage because I *didnt *shoot first and ask questions later. Obviously I dont want to get shot up either.

Im afraid Ive taken this way off topic though and I just want to say thanks again to GPD for the original post.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> I appreciate the information you have and there is no doubt you have more training and experience than me (that doesnt take much either btw). All I am saying is that I dont want to put myself or my family at any disadvantage because I *didnt *shoot first and ask questions later. Obviously I dont want to get shot up either.
> 
> Im afraid Ive taken this way off topic though and I just want to say thanks again to GPD for the original post.


I understand what you are saying and you and I may disagree on how to handle the situation, but rest assured that if you ever feel that you have to confront someone (and I pray that you never do), I hope and pray that no harm comes to you or your family.

Dan


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

grandpadave said:


> Winks to OldVet...
> 
> Ya got a nice gun, one of my favs... I swore I would never swap my .40 S&W... very hard to beat those 165gr golden sabers for one shot stops.... but I recently found a new love... it's no secret to those who know me...know I'm a huge Ruger fan... and when I saw their new Sr1911... it was lust at first sight... I already have my name on a list for one... and for a tricked out 1911... they sell for under $650
> go peek
> Ruger SR1911 45 ACP Semi-Auto Pistol


*I need to get out more ! I'm a long time 1911 man, since the Corps gave me one that rattled like a bb in a tea cup but boy it could shoot!!.. BUT I did not know Ruger had gotten into the 1911 business..

I will admit right here that while I love Rugers 6 guns , to me their autos have all the balance of a brick..( in my NSHO ) don't make em bad just don't work for me. I bough an LCP..bad juju , my hands are BIG, gun was SMALL !! but I could hit steel plates at 10 yards all day, but damn it was hard to do.. I just tried the new LC9 I think it is, still a bit small...I had a real nice Colt Custom Shop 1911 Defender, way to small but I ccw'd it for several years .

I also carried my Colt GC ser 70 for many years but she's a safe queen at the moment..

So..I will check out this new Ruger , but I really want a Commander , I have this unholy sinful desire to pimp one out...nothing drastic, but maybe some highly polished black chrome and a real nice set of Mastodon ivory !! I have had that idea for so long yet never did it...it's time now..

Thanks for the nice post! *


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

HozayBuck said:


> *I need to get out more ! I'm a long time 1911 man, since the Corps gave me one that rattled like a bb in a tea cup but boy it could shoot!!.. *


I know I have already hijacked my own thread but... what the heck...

I've been reading this new book on the history of the 1911... and there is this one passage I thought very cool... it's a story from WWII


> As impressive as Walsh's shot was, it may
> have been matched 011 Man::b. 31, 1943, by
> 2Lt Owen Baggett of the US 7th Bomber
> Group over .Burma. Baggett was cpilot of a
> ...


sorry but the formatting doesnt copy paste well but you get the idea

so how cool is that?


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

That is way cool.
Can you imagine trying to get someone to believe you shot down an enemy plane with a .45? :scratch

Dan


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Any of yawl remember hearing the story of a Marine company who shot down a Jet fighter with an 81 MM mortar ?? seems they were in a night gun fight with a Bat. of VC when a USAF jock decided to drift down and see what all the pretty lights were, his fighter sucked up a Shute flare and blew his eng, he crash landed in the contested rice paddy and it became a foot race between the Grunts and Chucky to see who could get to the Pilot first, the Marines won and saved the fool and became the first Marine unit to shoot down a jet fighter with a 81 mortar......The USAF was pissed!*

It has to be true, Marines would never lie


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> *Any of yawl remember hearing the story of a Marine company who shot down a Jet fighter with an 81 MM mortar ?? seems they were in a night gun fight with a Bat. of VC when a USAF jock decided to drift down and see what all the pretty lights were, his fighter sucked up a Shute flare and blew his eng, he crash landed in the contested rice paddy and it became a foot race between the Grunts and Chucky to see who could get to the Pilot first, the Marines won and saved the fool and became the first Marine unit to shoot down a jet fighter with a 81 mortar......The USAF was pissed!*
> 
> It has to be true, Marines would never lie


That is funny I LMAO. Ya think the AF was really pissed? Naw, not them.

Hozay, Brother now how many of these folks that ain't Nam Vets like us know who Chucky is? 

Dan


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## grandpadave (Sep 29, 2011)

I dont doubt the story...
My father-in-law was a navy pilot... he has lots of stories about flare outs from sucking up seagulls and trash laying on the decks... our "USA" jets have always been a lot more fragle than the Migs... or so I hear... maybe I get my father-in-law to join up... now he's got some great old stories


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Please allow me to contribute to the gun porn. Oh, first, I have always thought that whoever is actually moving around the house, whether it be the home owner or the intruder, is the one most likely to be "capped" by the other.

Anyhow, here is my Colt Govt series 70. VZ grips. Trijacon night sights. No other mods necessary.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> Please allow me to contribute to the gun porn. Oh, first, I have always thought that whoever is actually moving around the house, whether it be the home owner or the intruder, is the one most likely to be "capped" by the other.
> 
> Anyhow, here is my Colt Govt series 70. VZ grips. Trijacon night sights. No other mods necessary.


From one 1911 lover, that is a nice piece. You can't beat a series 70 if you go colt. IMHO.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> Please allow me to contribute to the gun porn. Oh, first, I have always thought that whoever is actually moving around the house, whether it be the home owner or the intruder, is the one most likely to be "capped" by the other.
> 
> Anyhow, here is my Colt Govt series 70. VZ grips. Trijacon night sights. No other mods necessary.


*Damn JC, that's a nice 1911, but man you need to use it!! has no wear on her.. shows no miles , I cry "SAFE QUEEN" !!! ..but a nice one!...

my old girl shows the wear and tear of being my carry gun, plus many years of shooting matches...she even shot the SOF match in Vegas one year , but after one stage of fire that left 8 empty mags in the dust behind me I finely realized I need to get a hi cap... so I got a P-14 Para , never regretted it.

Maybe I'll get some pics and post..I like you're grips too..

I called Colt 5 years ago and talked to the lady who checks ser numbers for date of Mfgr and I asked about getting mine a make over and she almost choked!! said "DON'T"!! OK !! I won't !! lol...

I'm giving mine to a young man this summer for his BD, because I know he will care for it all his life and pass it on to his Son some day... he has no idea !! lolol*


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

You're right. It hasn't been fired much. In fact, it remained unfired in the box from the time it was purchased until I got it last year. The original buyer paid $375 for it new from a local dealer.

It will see more carry now that the weather is getting cooler and I wear enough clothing to conceal it.

Oh, I forgot to say... thats a very nice BD gift. I bet there is a lot of love behind it.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> You're right. It hasn't been fired much. In fact, it remained unfired in the box from the time it was purchased until I got it last year. The original buyer paid $375 for it new from a local dealer.
> 
> It will see more carry now that the weather is getting cooler and I wear enough clothing to conceal it.
> 
> Oh, I forgot to say... thats a very nice BD gift. I bet there is a lot of love behind it.


Yes there is a lot of love there, I've given him a 22 pump, an AR 15 and soon the Colt... he's the son of good friends and a super trap shooter as is his sister, she got an AR 15 too , I have given away a lot of guns in the last 5 years or so... all to the kids of friends ... it's given me more pleasure then shooting them which I love!!  ..Kids, they are the hope for the future .. they need to be armed!!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> Yes there is a lot of love there, I've given him a 22 pump, an AR 15 and soon the Colt... he's the son of good friends and a super trap shooter as is his sister, she got an AR 15 too , I have given away a lot of guns in the last 5 years or so... all to the kids of friends ... it's given me more pleasure then shooting them which I love!!  ..Kids, they are the hope for the future .. they need to be armed!!


You are a good man HozayBuck. :thumbraise::thumbraise::thumbraise:


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Thanks OV but I'm not really, just have a tender spot for the kids.. these kids used to crawl all over me , then the little girls turned into ...??? big girls? got all bumpy looking and I had to kinda ease them back a bit.. but damn I miss them sitting in my lap telling me all about their latest whatever.... why can't they stay little longer ? kinda like a kitten sweet as honey then they turn into ..Cats...:dunno::dunno:

*


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## BuggingIn (May 31, 2010)

Since we are already far into thread drift, do you mind if I ask a question about shoot/don't shoot situations? 

My bff's ex has been in prison for the last 8-9 years for molesting their daughter and will be getting out any day now, unless her appeal for a change in where he is allowed to live goes through. He was originally scheduled to get out on 9/11/10, but there has been difficulty finding a place he can live...and now they want to put him in the town where she works, in the county where she lives (and more importantly, where her dd lives)! Grr. 

Anyway, I digress. I spoke at his sentencing hearing, and basically called him the scum of the earth. He's had a long time to think about it, and since his mother and sister don't seem to think he did anything wrong, I'm sure it's festered. When I originally heard he was going to get out, I got my CPL and a 5 shot .38 revolver for my carry gun. 

I live in the boonies, and my house isn't "hardened" - in fact, it barely locks! I worry that he is going to track me down and be waiting in my house some time when I come home. I'm working on getting security beefed up, but in my opinion, he has no reason to ever be on my property, other than to do me harm. I worry though, that if he shows up and I feel threatened and shoot, I'LL BE THE ONE TO GO TO JAIL! 

I talked to the sheriff's deputy when I applied for my carry permit and asked about protection orders, but was told that I couldn't get one unless I had heard that he was actually making threats against me. He was of the opinion that if he showed up at my home, I should defend myself, but he's not the one who would potentially be filing charges. 

So, if he's in my home, I think it's pretty clear that he would mean me harm, and I would be a fool NOT to shoot him, damn the potential consequences....but what if he comes in my driveway or knocks on my door someday? Where is the line drawn between allowing him to have whatever say he might want to have, and being in enough fear of my life that I have to defend myself by shooting and potentially killing him? Do I tell him to back up, to leave, or do I just draw and shoot before he gets close enough to disarm me (he's much larger than I)? What would you do? What would you recommend? 

I'm not worried about the psychological aftermath, although I'm sure there will be one, but the legal ramifications, needing a lawyer, being sued, jailed, etc. Better all that than dead or raped/beaten/stabbed/whatever, but it still worries me. I think the man (and I use the word loosely) is scum, but I don't know if that makes it better or worse! I even worry that posting something like this could be considered premeditation, when I only consider it critical thinking and working through all the what-ifs that make me a prepper at heart.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

BuggingIn said:


> Since we are already far into thread drift, do you mind if I ask a question about shoot/don't shoot situations?
> 
> My bff's ex has been in prison for the last 8-9 years for molesting their daughter and will be getting out any day now, unless her appeal for a change in where he is allowed to live goes through. He was originally scheduled to get out on 9/11/10, but there has been difficulty finding a place he can live...and now they want to put him in the town where she works, in the county where she lives (and more importantly, where her dd lives)! Grr.
> 
> ...


Personally I would not shoot him if He is knocking on the door... however if he is beating the door down (kicking it in or otherwise forcing his way in) then all bets are off and you put a few holes in the guy (try to kill him... would probably be best if he couldnt testify). If he is just on your land you have no choice but to call the cops... unfortunately thats probably the extent of what you could get away with. I am not a lawyer... you saw my questions previously... I hope neither of us are put in that situation but moreso I hope neither of us or our families are victimized because we were afraid of the system.

You are damned right that the prosecutor would consider this premeditation and you would likely be attacked a second time by our so-called justice system. Its ugly and its not right. For me it goes back to my faith in God and I know hes not lost track of me and he knows and designed the circumstances of my life... if I go to prison then I join/start a prison ministry. But I'll be damned if I let someone hurt my family.

Hope that helps.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> Personally I would not shoot him if He is knocking on the door... however if he is beating the door down (kicking it in or otherwise forcing his way in) then all bets are off and you put a few holes in the guy (try to kill him... would probably be best if he couldnt testify). If he is just on your land you have no choice but to call the cops... unfortunately thats probably the extent of what you could get away with. I am not a lawyer... you saw my questions previously... I hope neither of us are put in that situation but moreso I hope neither of us or our families are victimized because we were afraid of the system.
> 
> You are damned right that the prosecutor would consider this premeditation and you would likely be attacked a second time by our so-called justice system. Its ugly and its not right. For me it goes back to my faith in God and I know hes not lost track of me and he knows and designed the circumstances of my life... if I go to prison then I join/start a prison ministry. But I'll be damned if I let someone hurt my family.
> 
> Hope that helps.


I will have to agree with Ant, especially about the part of not shooting unless he is attempting to break into your home.
If he does try that and you do shoot him, shoot center mass with at least a double tap. I also would say to do your level best to kill him if you do have to shoot.
Keep one thing in mind tho in a totally stressful situation like you would be in if he did break in, you will be breathing hard or even panting and more than likely shaking like a leaf, so don't think that you will be able to calmly stand there and shoot. 
So as silly as this may sound to you, try to practice your double tap center mass shots while one or more people are doing whatever they can to try and distract you and really get your heart racing.

like Ant said if he is dead he can't testify against you.

If the worst case actually happens and you do have to shoot him, then the first words out of your mouth when L.E. gets there should be "I was in fear of my life". All of this is JMHO and I don't know what the Castle Laws are in your State so you might want to check on that also.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Being tried by 12 beats the shit outta being carried by 6....*


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