# Anybody ever used Kyocera Solar panels?



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

I was looking for solar panels and found these on a GoogleSearch. What do you think of them?






Kyocera KD135SX-UPU 135 Watt Solar Panel with Junction Box

http://www.solar-electric.com/kd225gx.html


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

4 Dozen of these and I could light the whole house off a 12 volt line in the ceiling. 4 pack for $49.99.
4 Pcs DC 12V - 120 White LED Flood Light bulb - eBay (item 220752973095 end time Mar-16-11 13:52:58 PDT)


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I assemble my own light arrays

Pricelist Superbright LEDs


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

YouTube - Solar And Wind Power In Virginia Updated I now have 4 Kyocera Solar Panels

AltE: Solar Panels & Solar Energy Gear | Call 877-878-4060


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

I have 14 of them. Since I live totally off grid, how can I help you out ?


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

Nadja said:


> I have 14 of them. Since I live totally off grid, how can I help you out ?


Do you run batteries?
Can you run a 3 HP table saw?


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Helixx,

Those light bulbs say they use an E27 socket.

As I recall, that's not a standard US size. A standard 110v light socket is an E26. I believe E27 may be used for higher voltage lighting (e.g. 220v lights). Basically, I don't know if you can buy regular fixtures from the store and insert these bulbs. If you've already addressed this, where are you getting your sockets?


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

I had know idea on the sockets. I'll look at some different bulbs.


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

I'm looking at 12v lighting myself. I honestly don't know if there's 12v bulbs that will fit in a 110v socket. I have some old 24v DC lighting and next time I'm near it, I'm going to check the bulbs and compare the sockets to a 110v. (Basically, see if a 24v DC bulb will fit in a 110v AC socket and vise-versa).


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

I would suspect that the sockets, among voltage differences, are not going to be compatible... this would prevent someone from accidentally putting a 12V or 24V bulb in a 110 socket and destroying it... or worse... starting a fire.


----------



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

We have some and they're fine solar panels. Those you have listed have the old style junction boxes which work okay. They aren't as weatherproof is the only difference plus you don't have to have the special connectors to use them. 

As to what they'll run will depend on a lot of factors.


----------



## MrSfstk8d (Jan 20, 2011)

Have to agree with MM. Running a 3HP table saw would be a stretch. If at ally, you'd have to be running it on a battery bank, and only periodically at that. Keep a close eye on the charge status. Personally, when SHTF, I'll be switching over to all manual woodwork, bow lathe, box frame saw, etc. Working on those skills now.


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

If there's no power around, the whine of power tools might also draw a lot of unwanted attention. They wouldn't necessarily want your tools but would want whatever else you have up to and including the panels and batteries.


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes, I have batteries as my storage system , especially at night when of course there is no solar. As far as running a 3hp table saw, let me tell you this, I tried a 3hp rock saw, and starting it beside itself was sorta kinda ok, but the second it hits the rock, or gets a load on, the motor will stall down. It sucks the cr.. out of a system. Much to big to be able to do much of anything with. Run a gennie to do the heavy load stuff.


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I have a 13-watt solar panel connected to a battery-pack with 400watt inverter. The solar panel sits inside my house in a south-facing window, connected to the battery-pack charging it up.

I have been playing with the pack for a while now - I can use my electric-comb to style my hair with it and it doesn't even pull 1-watt of power and doesn't drain the main battery at all by the time my hair is combed. 

I have used it with my blender to make blender-drinks, it pulls about 450-watt, but, doesn't shut-down the unit, so, I am still within its limits.

I have used it to make muffins / cookies / cakes by powering my MixMaster. Heavy dough makes it bogg-down a bit, but, it works very well for cakes-batter.



It does take the panel significant amount of time to recharge the battery-pack when I reach the bottom of the available-power, but, overall I am happy with it.

Expanding the power capability (more batteries, bigger inverter) would really go a long way with being able to power larger pieces of equipment, but, I would loose the portability ... a toss-up there.

Pictures below of similar solar panel and power-pack that I have (stolen off the 'net).


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> I have a 13-watt solar panel connected to a battery-pack with 400watt inverter. The solar panel sits inside my house in a south-facing window, connected to the battery-pack charging it up.
> 
> I have been playing with the pack for a while now - I can use my electric-comb to style my hair with it and it doesn't even pull 1-watt of power and doesn't drain the main battery at all by the time my hair is combed.
> 
> ...


Thats really cute. But in dire time of need, will it run anything of value ? Of course not.


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Nadja said:


> Thats really cute. But in dire time of need, will it run anything of value ? Of course not.


Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think that's entirely his point... I would guess this is more of a learning experience and proof of concept. Plus it's portable. A roof or pole mount system might attract unwanted attention in "dire times". While a portable one could be put away until things settle down.


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Nadja said:


> Thats really cute. But in dire time of need, will it run anything of value ? Of course not.


:hmmm: 12 volt electric blanket can save your life & draws only 50.4W (4.2 amps) :congrat:


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> :hmmm: 12 volt electric blanket can save your life & draws only 50.4W (4.2 amps) :congrat:


Yes, it would probably run it ,,,,, for about 15 minutes. I have lived off the grid entirely for 16 years on solar and wind and started with just one 80 watt kyrocera panel and two batteries. I have learned what you can do and what you can't do , and an elec blanket is way beyound my means and always will be. My refer only draws one amp more then the blanket, and is far more important.


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Nadja said:


> Thats really cute. But in dire time of need, will it run anything of value ? Of course not.


Actually, it does very well for what it is. This one can run small electric motors (Dremel, blender, drill, etc), runs 12-volt and 120-volt lights, has a built-in air-compressor for filling tires, has a booster-cable to restart dead vehicles, can charge / run small electronic devices (laptop, cell-phones, MP3-players, I-Pad, I-Pod, etc).

I have other solar systems that are significantly more advanced, but, none as portable as this one is. The beauty of this one is that I can use the solar panel to charge this battery-pack and "cascade" power to my other battery-packs if required (I currently have 4 battery packs, two for boosting motorbikes, one for boosting V8 motors and the last one for boosting 4-bangers).



Nadja said:


> Yes, it would probably run it ,,,,, for about 15 minutes. I have lived off the grid entirely for 16 years on solar and wind and started with just one 80 watt kyrocera panel and two batteries. I have learned what you can do and what you can't do , and an elec blanket is way beyound my means and always will be. My refer only draws one amp more then the blanket, and is far more important.


I also have an 80-watt panel to two batteries (like your original setup) to run my camping trailer with plans to expand that system with a 5,000 watt inverter and two more batteries and an additional 120-watt panel (for 200-watt of solar generating).

My house-system is going to be a little more advanced - details to follow once I get my butt out of this damn city for good.


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Nadja said:


> Yes, it would probably run it ,,,,, for about 15 minutes. I have lived off the grid entirely for 16 years on solar and wind and started with just one 80 watt kyrocera panel and two batteries. I have learned what you can do and what you can't do , and an elec blanket is way beyound my means and always will be. My refer only draws one amp more then the blanket, and is far more important.


what's the amp-hours of the battery in the pack Naekid is using? :dunno:

I'm assuming it's something small like a U1 (35-40 AH?)... which is how I figured that blanket would last for 4-5 hours or so (as long as it was kept warm as well) which would hopefully buy time to get help or build/find shelter &/or make a fire if possible... or write out your Last Will & Testament 

Nadja, is your system 12v, 24v, or 110v? cuz 1 amp draw more is quite different in terms of wattage in each of those systems

typical deep cycle battery is 120 AH or so? I know golf carts batteries are easily twice that, but good luck finding affordable ones...

Suppose you were to run a microwave oven for 10 minutes a day, which draw about 1000 Watts, despite their size. To keep it simple, think of the inverter as electrically transparent (in reality it is NOT). In other words, the 1000 Watts required to run the oven come directly from the batteries as if it were a 12 VDC microwave. Taking 1000 Watts from a 12-Volt battery requires the battery to deliver
approximately 84 Amps. (1000 Watts ÷ 12 Volts = 84 Amps)

A full-sized refrigerator draws about 2 Amps at 120 Volts AC. By multiplying 2 Amps x 120 Volts, you find out the refrigerator uses 240 Watts. The batteries will need to deliver 20 Amps to run the refrigerator (240 Watts/12 Volts = 20 Amps). Typically, refrigerators operate about 1/3 of the time (1/3 "duty cycle"), or 8 hours a day. Therefore, the A.H. drain will be 160 A.H. (8 hours x 20 Amps = 160 A.H.).

After the load and running time is established, the battery bank size can be calculated. The first calculation is to divide the load (in Watts) by 10 for a 12-Volt system or by 20 for a 24-Volt system resulting in the number of Amps required from the battery bank.

Most batteries' A.H. capacity is stated for the 20-hour rate of discharge which can be very misleading to those of us without a lot of experience. This means that a battery has a 100 A.H. capacity if it is discharged over 20 hours, or at about 5 Amps-per-hour (100 A.H. / 20 hours = 5 Amps DC). However, this same battery would last only one hour if the discharge rate was 50 Amps-per-hour (50 Amps DC x 1 hour = 50 A.H.) because of the high rate of discharge.

Also, two more items must be considered. The more deeply the battery is discharged on each cycle, the shorter the battery life will remain. Therefore, using more batteries than the minimum will result in longer life for the battery bank. Keep in mind that batteries lose capacity as the ambient temperature lowers. If the air temperature near the battery bank is lower than 77°F (25°C), more batteries will be needed to maintain the required capacity.

Nadja, as a 16-year off-grid veteran, you're better equipped to explain this...

I guess all I can add is, do an *accurate* assessment, do the math, and then add 50% more capacity, because "life" happens...

... and larger (AH) batteries last longer for two reasons, more overall AH available *AND* loads are less % of draw so it's efficiency is greater (I will refrain from going into the science of lessening voltage potential decreasing source efficiency  )


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

The_Blob said:


> what's the amp-hours of the battery in the pack Naekid is using? :dunno:


From the website on my battery-pack:

*Motomaster Eliminator 600A PowerBox*
•Provides 120V AC household power, 12V DC power
•Built-in 400W inverter
•Sealed, non-spillable 20 amp-hour AGM battery
•250-psi air compressor for inflating tires and small sports equipment
•Jumper cables designed for safe and efficient jump-starting
•Built-in light provides illumination in emergency situations at home and on the road
•3-digit display allows for easy battery status monitoring
•Overload and over-temperature protection to ensure longer inverter life
•Recharge at home or from a vehicle
•Powers camcorders, video games, stereos, 13" TV/VCR combos, as well as runs hand-held blenders, fans, computers, laptops, clock radios, and small power tools

I don't know if the Duracell one is exactly the same with the CanadianTire logo put onto mine, I just know that it does exactly what I want it to do ... power my crap when I need it to power my crap. :2thumb:


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

assuming that like in most industry standard tests they did a 20 hr discharge (@ 1A) to get that 20 AH figure then Nadja was pretty close in her initial assessment, it's about 1/2 the battery I was assuming was in it  the calculations work out to <40 minutes of continuous use for an electric blanket 

I like AGM's, they have a very low self-discharge (1%-2% per month is usual). This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. They can be almost fully recharged (96% or better) even after 60 days of being 100% discharged (100 DoD).

PS. something else I neglected to mention before is that add batteries whenever you can to your system, it will extend the life of the batteries you have (by discharging them all just a little bit less) and of course give you 'more juice'.


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> assuming that like in most industry standard tests they did a 20 hr discharge (@ 1A) to get that 20 AH figure then Nadja was pretty close in her initial assessment, it's about 1/2 the battery I was assuming was in it  the calculations work out to <40 minutes of continuous use for an electric blanket
> 
> I like AGM's, they have a very low self-discharge (1%-2% per month is usual). This means that they can sit in storage for much longer periods without charging than standard batteries. They can be almost fully recharged (96% or better) even after 60 days of being 100% discharged (100 DoD).
> 
> PS. something else I neglected to mention before is that add batteries whenever you can to your system, it will extend the life of the batteries you have (by discharging them all just a little bit less) and of course give you 'more juice'.


Hi Blob. My solar and wind system is 12 volt. When I first started 16 years ago, I could not afford to go 24 volt, as you had to buy 2 solar panels and 4 batteries just to hook up to your inverter . Back then, solar was really just starting to gain in popularity for the remote guy like me. Up till then, pretty much everyone just used rv batteries and a gennie to charge them up, allowing you to watch a small amount of tv at night and / or run a light. My first cpf bulb cost me almost $15.00. When you are adding batteries to your system, don't make the mistake that I made for several years before learning the error of my ways. But them all at once, or all within 6 months time, or your new ones will only be pulled down to your old ones standards. Batteries are really the toughest thing to figure out, and also one of the most expensive to overcum. Also, the best to buy actually are the Trojen T-105 golf cart batteries, but almost all the golf cart batteries are fairly close. About 220 amp hours each and they do last around 7 years or more, depending on the way you use and keep them. I have a couple of blogs written about solar, and will soon take the time to create more, on a how it really works kind of system. I really don't believe a lot of what the proffesionals will tell you, as most of them do not live on solar, and their main goal is to sell you all they can.


----------



## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Nadja said:


> Hi Blob. My solar and wind system is 12 volt. When I first started 16 years ago, I could not afford to go 24 volt, as you had to buy 2 solar panels and 4 batteries just to hook up to your inverter . Back then, solar was really just starting to gain in popularity for the remote guy like me. Up till then, pretty much everyone just used rv batteries and a gennie to charge them up, allowing you to watch a small amount of tv at night and / or run a light. My first cpf bulb cost me almost $15.00. When you are adding batteries to your system, don't make the mistake that I made for several years before learning the error of my ways. But them all at once, or all within 6 months time, or your new ones will only be pulled down to your old ones standards. Batteries are really the toughest thing to figure out, and also one of the most expensive to overcum. Also, the best to buy actually are the Trojen T-105 golf cart batteries, but almost all the golf cart batteries are fairly close. About 220 amp hours each and they do last around 7 years or more, depending on the way you use and keep them. I have a couple of blogs written about solar, and will soon take the time to create more, on a how it really works kind of system. I really don't believe a lot of what the proffesionals will tell you, as most of them do not live on solar, and their main goal is to sell you all they can.


:congrat: you could probably write that up for Grit or Mother Earth News & make a bit o' spare change, I'm sure many people would be interested in your successes and failures in your solar adventure. :2thumb:


----------



## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> :congrat: you could probably write that up for Grit or Mother Earth News & make a bit o' spare change, I'm sure many people would be interested in your successes and failures in your solar adventure. :2thumb:


Thanks Blob. The thing is, I do it for free. I am older then dirt, and would just like to spare people all the problems and expenses that I incured along the way. I really get tired of the salesmen who only sell for profit without benifit of real knowledge. I also hate to see people make large expensive mistakes, including fires because nobody has explained it to them in a "user friendly" way.


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

Nadja said:


> Hi Blob. My solar and wind system is 12 volt. When I first started 16 years ago, I could not afford to go 24 volt, as you had to buy 2 solar panels and 4 batteries just to hook up to your inverter . Back then, solar was really just starting to gain in popularity for the remote guy like me. Up till then, pretty much everyone just used rv batteries and a gennie to charge them up, allowing you to watch a small amount of tv at night and / or run a light. My first cpf bulb cost me almost $15.00. When you are adding batteries to your system, don't make the mistake that I made for several years before learning the error of my ways. But them all at once, or all within 6 months time, or your new ones will only be pulled down to your old ones standards. Batteries are really the toughest thing to figure out, and also one of the most expensive to overcum. Also, the best to buy actually are the Trojen T-105 golf cart batteries, but almost all the golf cart batteries are fairly close. About 220 amp hours each and they do last around 7 years or more, depending on the way you use and keep them. I have a couple of blogs written about solar, and will soon take the time to create more, on a how it really works kind of system. I really don't believe a lot of what the proffesionals will tell you, as most of them do not live on solar, and their main goal is to sell you all they can.


Are these the ones Nadja?
http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/de...gc2-deep-cycle-battery?source=google_products


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

OK so I'm back entertaining this idea again without so many watt expectations ......


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

HELIXX said:


> OK so I'm back entertaining this idea again without so many watt expectations ......


Build a small system just to run some 12v LED lights and maybe an inverter to run an occasional kitchen appliance. To do this is only a few hundred dollars. It is a great learning tool!


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

LincTex said:


> Build a small system just to run some 12v LED lights and maybe an inverter to run an occasional kitchen appliance. To do this is only a few hundred dollars. It is a great learning tool!


EXACTLY! :congrat:


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Build a small system just to run some 12v LED lights and maybe an inverter to run an occasional kitchen appliance. To do this is only a few hundred dollars. It is a great learning tool!


I just built a solar panel as a learning experience for me. 60 watt panel, more than enough to power some small lights or a little fan, or to charge a battery that can then be used off hours with an inverter. If there is interest I can post a work log with pics of how I did it. Spent (not including my time) about half what they sell for. Granted it's not UL approved and wouldn't be something I'd put in a grid use situation but for emergency use or post SHTF needs it's giving me many ideas that I'm starting to explore now.


----------



## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

CulexPipiens said:


> I just built a solar panel as a learning experience for me. 60 watt panel, more than enough to power some small lights or a little fan, or to charge a battery that can then be used off hours with an inverter. If there is interest I can post a work log with pics of how I did it. Spent (not including my time) about half what they sell for. Granted it's not UL approved and wouldn't be something I'd put in a grid use situation but for emergency use or post SHTF needs it's giving me many ideas that I'm starting to explore now.


The couple who run GreenPower Science have a video about how to purchase solar-cells and build your own panel for super-cheap as well


----------



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> The couple who run GreenPower Science have a video about how to purchase solar-cells and build your own panel for super-cheap as well
> 
> SOLAR PANEL DIY MAKE YOUR OWN SOLAR PANEL BUILD SOLAR PANELS - YouTube


It wasn't them but a similar site that I stumbled upon and after watching their videos decided to give it a shot. It doesn't look too professional but isn't that bad either... and considering it was my first try I'm quite pleased with it. Cost about $50 for the cells, $50 for glass, $40 for encapsulating liquid and another $25 or so for frame and misc bits and parts. About $165 (plus my time) for a 60 watt panel. If I had found instead of bought glass and picked up off cuts to make the frame from I could have probably built it for right about $100 or so.


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> The couple who run GreenPower Science have a video about how to purchase solar-cells and build your own panel for super-cheap as well
> 
> SOLAR PANEL DIY MAKE YOUR OWN SOLAR PANEL BUILD SOLAR PANELS - YouTube


Thanks for the link but I do not have that much patience for soldering.


----------



## HELIXX (Jan 2, 2011)

Outback FX2012MT Sine Wave Mobile Inverter 2000W, 12VDC W/Turbo


----------

