# True 30 mile range



## Shammua

OK I know this has been beaten to death over and over, but here goes again anyway. Maybe a new spin this time?

Is there anything out there that could be used for commo gear that DOESN'T require a license that can get a true 30 mile range (not on the open desert, but around urban, and outdoors) , be mobile (vehicle mounted if needed, handheld slave to vehicle if needed), and not cost 10minutes of our deficit interest.

Basically what I am looking for is something that has great range so I can talk to and practice our commo opsec now, and when TSHTF we can still have our set comms for when those of our group are geographically removed can contact us when in vicinity.

We have several locations setup and none of us have the EXACT location for all of them. So we have to be able to establish comms when in range to get carried into home.

For those that have had a few to many or are just slow on the up take, here is what I mean.

TSHTF and it's time to bug out. My family and I pack up and get buggin, however when we get to the location that we know about we find out it has been compromised (how doesn't matter here, just play along). So it's time to move on to another area. Well even with our compromised location the bad guys don't have anything to use because all we have is a region. So I live in Virignia Beach and we head west. One of our BOL's is in TN lets say. Well the only thing I know is an area on a map, and a memorized radio freq.

We get to the designated area and following op sec we broadcast as preset and wait for response. Once we get a response, we have someone come get us and we follow into safety.


So what I am asking for is a radio that we can get that will allow us to do this reasonably well without costing thousands of dollars to get. Or tons of silver, ounces of gold, or to much bartering to make happen.


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## DKRinAK

*Star trek*

The fast answer is - No.

The last set of Communicators I had to dump because the unobtainum batteries couldn't be recharged.

You have very little choice for non-license radio coms

CB - With a large antenna up high on both ends, and using SSB maybe.

MURS, two watts, by law. Not going to happen.

GMRS, which _may_ soon be license free is five watts with antenna/ ERP restrictions. If you want to buy into a repeater, 30 miles no problem, no repeater, no comms.

I see this question about every other month. Short of finding a working set of Star Trek communicators, it just isn't going to happen, and in urban terrain, even less of a chance.

If you had a ham license, you could set up a low cost Digital voice QRP system, but each part would required a transceiver, large antenna and on and on. Several hundred for each node.


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## cnsper

Smoke signals but they are worthless on stormy or windy days.


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## rf197

Without having 2 cans and a 30 mile long string I'd say no.


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## k0xxx

As the others before me have said, the short answer is no. Even in licensed services, 30 miles in real world conditions can be iffy for mobile or portable, depending on terrain. There's always Satellite phones, but in a true SHTF situation they may be restricted or disabled.


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## zombieresponder

DKRinAK said:


> The fast answer is - No.
> 
> The last set of Communicators I had to dump because the unobtainum batteries couldn't be recharged.
> 
> You have very little choice for non-license radio coms
> 
> CB - With a large antenna up high on both ends, and using SSB maybe.
> 
> MURS, two watts, by law. Not going to happen.
> 
> GMRS, which _may_ soon be license free is five watts with antenna/ ERP restrictions. If you want to buy into a repeater, 30 miles no problem, no repeater, no comms.
> 
> I see this question about every other month. Short of finding a working set of Star Trek communicators, it just isn't going to happen, and in urban terrain, even less of a chance.
> 
> If you had a ham license, you could set up a low cost Digital voice QRP system, but each part would required a transceiver, large antenna and on and on. Several hundred for each node.


I'm pretty sure that GMRS can run up to 50 watts. I'd have to go read part 97 again.


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## Bobbb

cnsper said:


> Smoke signals but they are worthless on stormy or windy days.


You just think that they're worthless. What you're actually seeing with smoke signals on a windy day are ENCRYPTED smoke signals. The smoke looks noisy but if you have the decryption algorithm then you're golden.


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## DKRinAK

zombieresponder said:


> I'm pretty sure that GMRS can run up to 50 watts. I'd have to go read part 97 again.


A GMRS system consists of station operators, a mobile station (often comprised of several mobile units) and sometimes one or more land stations. A small base station is one that has an antenna no more than 20 feet above the ground or above the tree on which it is mounted and transmits with *no more than 5 watts ERP.*

Source -
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

The MURS has a two watt limit, but _no _antenna restrictions or ERP limits - it is a no license class service - but you must use type accepted radios.


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## invision

Take the technicians exam... A little less than a week of studying and then your good to go... You can get 2 YAESU FT-8800R units and can definitely hit 30 miles... And if terrain is an obstacle, then you can bounce off a repeater...


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## Shammua

invision said:


> Take the technicians exam... A little less than a week of studying and then your good to go... You can get 2 YAESU FT-8800R units and can definitely hit 30 miles... And if terrain is an obstacle, then you can bounce off a repeater...


I am currently studying for my technicians exam.  Woohoo!!!
How hard is it to get your general afterwards? I'm pretty interested in being able to talk to Japan since that is where my son is going to be stationed at real soon.


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## k0xxx

The General license entails more actual knowledge of electronics and theory, but isn't too bad. It just takes a bit more time to study for. As for Japan, it relies on your location and propagation. Where I am located, propagation to Japan isn't everyday, but it's not at all rare.


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## zimmy

*communication*

The old 23 channel cb radios and some of the walkietalkies (sp?) with plug in crystals, if you swap out the transmit with the receive crystals it would put you above or below cb band. Of course this would be illegal unless you had the proper radio operator license.


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## stanb999

Shammua said:


> I am currently studying for my technicians exam.  Woohoo!!!
> How hard is it to get your general afterwards? I'm pretty interested in being able to talk to Japan since that is where my son is going to be stationed at real soon.


Skype phone. Crystal clear.


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## stanb999

zimmy said:


> The old 23 channel cb radios and some of the walkietalkies (sp?) with plug in crystals, if you swap out the transmit with the receive crystals it would put you above or below cb band. Of course this would be illegal unless you had the proper radio operator license.


You do realize that during your bug out you will likely be in violation of many laws. Curfews, travel bans, exclusion zones, etc.

What one more violation?


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## zombieresponder

Shammua said:


> I am currently studying for my technicians exam.  Woohoo!!!
> How hard is it to get your general afterwards? I'm pretty interested in being able to talk to Japan since that is where my son is going to be stationed at real soon.


Just remember that there will be about a 18 or so hour time difference. Japan is going to be one of the first places I try to contact when I get my HF rig up. Gotta start studying japanese again.

Nihongo wa hanimasu ka?


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## TexasPatriot

Our group is in the process of setting up our comms for the very same reason you have described. We all have, or are working on getting ham licenses. Practice and comfort in use before the SHTF need is very important. The Tech licenses is simple enough to obtain and will get you on the road to learning. 
We have already been through the, "Is there any other way thing". Nope, not to get the distance you want.


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## DKRinAK

Shammua said:


> OK I know this has been beaten to death over and over, but here goes again anyway. Maybe a new spin this time?
> 
> Is there anything out there that could be used for commo gear that DOESN'T require a license that can get a true 30 mile range (not on the open desert, but around urban, and outdoors) , be mobile (vehicle mounted if needed, handheld slave to vehicle if needed), and not cost 10minutes of our deficit interest.
> 
> Basically what I am looking for is something that has great range so I can talk to and practice our commo opsec now, and when TSHTF we can still have our set comms for when those of our group are geographically removed can contact us when in vicinity.
> 
> We have several locations setup and none of us have the EXACT location for all of them. So we have to be able to establish comms when in range to get carried into home.
> 
> For those that have had a few to many or are just slow on the up take, here is what I mean.
> 
> TSHTF and it's time to bug out. My family and I pack up and get buggin, however when we get to the location that we know about we find out it has been compromised (how doesn't matter here, just play along). So it's time to move on to another area. Well even with our compromised location the bad guys don't have anything to use because all we have is a region. So I live in Virignia Beach and we head west. One of our BOL's is in TN lets say. Well the only thing I know is an area on a map, and a memorized radio freq.
> 
> We get to the designated area and following op sec we broadcast as preset and wait for response. Once we get a response, we have someone come get us and we follow into safety.
> 
> So what I am asking for is a radio that we can get that will allow us to do this reasonably well without costing thousands of dollars to get. Or tons of silver, ounces of gold, or to much bartering to make happen.


Looking at this again, you may have an out, but this still requires a Ham license.

You can purchase a 75 watt mobile rig and feed it into a 5/8 wave gain antenna. A quality antenna gives you ~about 3 db gain, so now your ERP is nearly 125 - 150 watts. That will carry the signal right to the radio horizon, so if you can even find a small hill or rise, you might get your 30 miles.
This also assumes the fixed base station at your BOL has as much power and a good, tall antenna.


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## Shammua

zombieresponder said:


> Just remember that there will be about a 18 or so hour time difference. Japan is going to be one of the first places I try to contact when I get my HF rig up. Gotta start studying japanese again.
> 
> Nihongo wa hanimasu ka?


I'm not to terribly worried about learning Japanese since it will be for talking to my son. He is getting stationed over there. Mostly we will talk the normal routes, phone, Skype, email, but we will also use HAM just in case something like the earthquake, typhoon, tidal wave, or other occurrences happen and normal line of communication are out.


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## radiomaster

*30+ Mile Comms? No Problem with ALE HF Radios*

*Yes, true 30+ mile communications range is no problem using HF radios with ALE (Automatic Link Establishment). *

See the article about ALE on this forum. 
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f5/ale-radios-dependable-shtf-comms-19596/


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## Shammua

So I have pretty much settled on HAM license and have been pushing forward on that option. Now my question is for those that have the HAM license and experience, what is a decent radio for starting out but will also work well for when I get my operators license? Or should I go with something simple like Yaesu or BaoFeng UV-5R 136-174/400-480 MHz Dual-Band small handheld for under $100 and then once I get my Operators license I get something like the Yaesu Ft-8900R Quad Band???


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## Geek999

Shammua said:


> So I have pretty much settled on HAM license and have been pushing forward on that option. Now my question is for those that have the HAM license and experience, what is a decent radio for starting out but will also work well for when I get my operators license? Or should I go with something simple like Yaesu or BaoFeng UV-5R 136-174/400-480 MHz Dual-Band small handheld for under $100 and then once I get my Operators license I get something like the Yaesu Ft-8900R Quad Band???


In this area (may not be true in yours) most HAMs seem to start with a 2m radio, either mobile or handheld. They are inexpensive and are a good way to start. Eventually you will need multiple radios to cover the various bands, base, mobile and HT operation, etc. As a result almost anything you buy will have some utility. You might also consider used if budget is an issue.


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## machinist

I have been very frustrated by this situation like many other people. The first page of the thread answered my questions, and nope, what I want just ain't out there.

I probably won't get into radio until it gets as simple as buying and using a $20 Tracphone. It seems to me that radio is for those who enjoy it as a hobby, rather than for use as a simple utility item.


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## k0xxx

machinist said:


> I have been very frustrated by this situation like many other people. The first page of the thread answered my questions, and nope, what I want just ain't out there.
> 
> I probably won't get into radio until it gets as simple as buying and using a $20 Tracphone. It seems to me that radio is for those who enjoy it as a hobby, rather than for use as a simple utility item.


Tracphones are great as long as the phone system is up and not overloaded. Yes, Ham radio isn't for everyone, because it does have a learning curve and it certainly can be expensive_ if you want it to be_, but it works when nothing else does. It doesn't rely on any infrastructure, but rather on the operators knowledge and ingenuity. If you're ever in a major disaster and need to communicate, good luck with the tracphone.


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## k0xxx

Shammua said:


> So I have pretty much settled on HAM license and have been pushing forward on that option. Now my question is for those that have the HAM license and experience, what is a decent radio for starting out but will also work well for when I get my operators license? Or should I go with something simple like Yaesu or BaoFeng UV-5R 136-174/400-480 MHz Dual-Band small handheld for under $100 and then once I get my Operators license I get something like the Yaesu Ft-8900R Quad Band???


The best radio for you will depend on how you plan to use it. If you plan on communicating with others close by or you have access to a nearby repeater, then a handheld my be all you need. If you want to connect out further without relying on a repeater, then a VHF mobile would be better.

While the FT-8900R is a great radio, depending on your intended uses and situation, it may be not be ideal. While having FM capability on 10m and 6m is nice, unless your area has repeaters on those bands, a radio capable of SSB on those bands will give you better range and more flexibility. Also, with a street level price of around $500, picking up a used FT100D, FT-857D, or Icom 706MKIIG for not too much more may make a lot more sense (at least to me). One of these would give you the same bands plus HF bands, and you have the options of FM, SSB, and AM modes. Now if you need the added features of the FT-8900, like cross band repeat, packet plug in, etc., then go with it, other wise you may get a lot more "bang for your bucks" (and use out of it) with other choices.

Personally I'd find other Hams in the area and talk with them about available repeaters and the type of coverage that they get with the terrain in your area.


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## machinist

k0xxx,

Right about the Tracphone. When it craps out will be a good sign I should check my 6 for other signs that TS has HTF. At that point, I don't want to communicate with anybody.


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## 101airborne

You could use CB with a good antenna and amp and get the range, BUT the FCC frowns on the amps. But in a shtf scenario...?? I have a galaxy CB with a 102" steel whip antenna matched up to a texas star 750 and I have no trouble talking 50+ miles. Most of the time 200+ miles.


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## Geek999

Radio for short range communications, like 30 miles, is generally line of sight. The result is anything in the way can block your signal and require you to go to a long range alternative, like shortwave, where you are bouncing signals off the ionosphere, at which point 30 miles may still not be a favorable distance, though you may get picked up hundreds of miles away.

Radio is simply not as easy as picking up a phone. However, it does not require that the phone infrastructure be operating.


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## radiomaster

*Ground Wave*

For local communications, CB radio frequencies and HF frequencies use "Ground Wave". Not line-of-sight.

Ground wave travels over hills. This is because the wavelength of HF is long enough to extend over terrain roughness and obstacles.

That is why CB goes a lot further in hilly terrain than line-of-sight radios such as UHF FRS GMRS or VHF MURS or HAM, etc.

With VHF and UHF, you need a gain antenna on a high tower to get 30 miles.

The lower the frequency, the better the ground wave.
Generally, ground wave is best below 30MHz.

There is also NVIS (Near Vertical Incidence Skywave) that HF radios can use to get over mountains and achieve good local area regional survivalist communications.


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## k0xxx

FWIW, while it is true that attenuation of VHF signals on ground path is higher than that of those in the 30MHz region (CB/10m), true Ground Wave propagation is generally not practicable above the bottom end of the HF portion of the spectrum (3 MHz). A 10m meter signal is roughly 33ft. in phase, not nearly enough to extend over terrain. 160m or 80m, maybe. Also the effectiveness of Ground Wave propagation can be greatly reduced or enhance depending on the type of ground (sandy, rocky, conductivity, etc.) in the path. With 29MHz (CB) being at the very top end of the HF spectrum, any benefits from actual ground wave propagation are somewhat limited.

For those interested, a good explanation of ground wave propagation can be found at radio-electronics.com.


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## Navajo

I was talking to a guy in Phx, AZ from near Billings, MT

using a basic Cobra 29 with a long whip antenna.

happened just for one evening when clouds covered the area..

conditions, conditions, conditions


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## Navajo

SHTF, I have a couple marine radios and handhelds...figure not too many people going to using that freq in the mountains...

And if it is SHTF and we need security, who is going to do anything about it???


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## 101airborne

Navajo said:


> SHTF, And if it is SHTF and we need security, who is going to do anything about it???


depending on what kind od shtf. In a minor/ regional situation someone will still be listening. In a wide spread TEOTWAWKI situation I agree with you.


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## k0xxx

We also have marine band radios in our back-up locker. They are holdovers from my days fishing in south Louisiana. It would have to be some real S that HTF for us to need them, but they are there just in case. On a side note, not long after we moved up here, some farmers were busted using marine radios to communicate on their farm and between neighbors.


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## Geek999

A Technician license takes about 10 hours of study and $14. Get a Technician license. Then get a couple cheap 2m handhelds, e.g. Baofeng or Wouxon. Problem solved. There is nothing with the range you are seeking that can be legally used without a license.


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## cllowe

I am confused. I have a 2 meter repeater about 22 miles from my house. I hit it with a Yaesu FT60 with a 1/4 wave antenna. My Mobile is a kenwood something with a 5/8 wave and I can easily hit repeaters 60 miles away.


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## Geek999

cllowe said:


> I am confused. I have a 2 meter repeater about 22 miles from my house. I hit it with a Yaesu FT60 with a 1/4 wave antenna. My Mobile is a kenwood something with a 5/8 wave and I can easily hit repeaters 60 miles away.


You are communicating 22 miles on the Yaesu, 60 miles with the Kenwood. What has you confused? You need a license if you are transmitting, not just listening.


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## cllowe

No I was confused because someone stated earlier that you needed a 75 watt rig with a 5/8 wave to get 30 miles. Just wondering why you would need all that wattage. I do have my ticket.

Kh4aud


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## cllowe

cllowe said:


> No I was confused because someone stated earlier that you needed a 75 watt rig with a 5/8 wave to get 30 miles. Just wondering why you would need all that wattage. I do have my ticket.
> 
> Kh4aud


Sorry stupid fat fingers and apple crap don't mix.

Kj4aud that looks better.


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## k0xxx

cllowe said:


> No I was confused because someone stated earlier that you needed a 75 watt rig with a 5/8 wave to get 30 miles. Just wondering why you would need all that wattage. I do have my ticket.
> 
> Kh4aud


It's true that you can work those distances with less than 75w and a 5/8 wave, but it depends on the terrain. I've worked satellite with a 6w handheld and a reflector behind the rubber duck, but I can't work 30 miles (using a 50w FM mobile and a 5/8 wave vehicle mounted antenna) with any regularity from my home due to hills. Best bet is to work with another Ham who can try out the distance you want to work, before making an equipment purchase.


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## Geek999

Radio is line of sight. With a couple of handhelds you might be able to communicate 30 miles, or you might not be able to communicate 1 mile depending on what is in between the 2 locations. Additional power might help. Getting some height for the antenna will definitely help.

For instance, I live on the side of a hill. I have excellent reception through about 270 degrees and virtually no reception through about 90 degrees.


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## crabapple

HAM sounds like the way to go, I know to person in a local club.
But that is all I know about HAM.
What is the cost to buy into a repeater for GMRS?


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## Geek999

crabapple said:


> HAM sounds like the way to go, I know to person in a local club.
> But that is all I know about HAM.
> What is the cost to buy into a repeater for GMRS?


HAM is definitely the way to go if you want to transmit for more than a couple miles.

I am not sure if there are any repeaters for GMRS. Repeaters are normally set up by HAM clubs on VHF/UHF frequencies. They're already set up and free to use. If you want to contribute the way to do it is get a HAM license, join a club that sponsors a repeater and your club dues will help defray the cost of the repeater.

If you want to find out about repeaters in your area Google "Repeater Directory". If you want to locate clubs, check ARRL.org or Google "Amateur Radio Clubs".


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## drgnhntr37

We have two gmrs repeaters that I know of in ga but they are privately sponsored.


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## Geek999

drgnhntr37 said:


> We have two gmrs repeaters that I know of in ga but they are privately sponsored.


I stand corrected, but two in an entire state implies that GMRS repeaters are few and far between. As comparison how many VHF/UHF repeaters are there in the same area?


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## Paltik

The key to getting that 30-mile range with low power is going to be a good antenna. Consider a directional antenna (focusing most of your power in one direction at the expense of others) with an array of elements; if you can get that antenna up above any obstructions (up in a tree, for example, or from a rooftop) so much the better. In fact, the antenna is probably more important than the radio itself (other than transmission power).


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## musketjim

I love comm questions because that has been a gap in my preps that I'm always trying to fill. HAM sounds good but like anything else I suppose it can get spendy, and right now I have other preps that are a priority. Keep up the good discussions.


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## LincTex

musketjim said:


> HAM sounds good but like anything else I suppose it can get spendy, and right now I have other preps that are a priority...


A inexpensive handheld radio, some coaxial cable, your license, and a homemade "ladder line J-pole" antenna and you are all set for well under $100!!


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## Geek999

musketjim said:


> I love comm questions because that has been a gap in my preps that I'm always trying to fill. HAM sounds good but like anything else I suppose it can get spendy, and right now I have other preps that are a priority. Keep up the good discussions.


You definitely need to set your own priorities. For comms the first thing yoyu need is a portable AM/FM to get news. Cost? $15. When you want to go further is up to you.


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> For comms the first thing you need is a portable AM/FM to get news. Cost? $15.


Shoot..... a Grundig G3 or G8 is only about $10 more, and then you have shortwave receive capabilities! And they will run forever on a set of three AA batteries.


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## Shammua

Now gotta remember a key point to my question was, when I get in a general area I can establish comms. Meaning directional wont work, so far I have to say that HAM seems to not only be the best but ONLY answer for this. 

Right now my core group all has set standard comms, and for our stopping points through out the country, well we have made good progress with my idea. This allows others to join our nation wide helping hand without giving out actual location. Instead we pass on frequencies to monitor in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation. If we come across each other, we share security passwords and then they will come get us and guide us into where they deem it safe for us to stay. 
This all hinges on solid comms on both parties, and both parties being able to establish comfort and trust levels. The nice thing is, if I met up with a partnering group, they don't have to take me to their actual BOL and sacrifice their security, but instead can guide me to a secure location to bed down for a few days if needed. 
THAT my friends is why this whole thread got started. 
I have loved all the input and have learned a lot. Now to finish up for my HAM license and make sure the rest of the group does the same.


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## Fn/Form

Interesting tidbit from the latest NIFOG edition.


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## Tradecraft

Geek999 said:


> A Technician license takes about 10 hours of study and $14. Get a Technician license. Then get a couple cheap 2m handhelds, e.g. Baofeng or Wouxon. Problem solved. There is nothing with the range you are seeking that can be legally used without a license.


I agree that you should get a Technician's level license. I do not agree with the radio recommendations. A handy talky is limited to 5 watts. Low quality radios may advertise 5 watts but oftentimes deliver less. Additionally, they tend to have quality control problems. When you are only dealing with a 5 watt radio to begin with losing 1-2 watts is a big deal. Spend the money and get an entry level Yaesu FT-60 which runs about $144.00. It is a quality radio that will put out 5 watts. Don't rely on a crappy radio when you are in a bad situation.


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## Tradecraft

LincTex said:


> A inexpensive handheld radio, some coaxial cable, your license, and a homemade "ladder line J-pole" antenna and you are all set for well under $100!!


No, you are not set for under $100.00. For under $100.00 you are going to more than likely have a cheap Chinese radio that under performs and has quality control issues. Spending $200-300 is a much more reasonable figure for much better quality gear that will perform to its specifications.

There is a reason for the saying, _*"You get what you pay for."*_


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## Dakine

Tradecraft said:


> No, you are not set for under $100.00. For under $100.00 you are going to more than likely have a cheap Chinese radio that under performs and has quality control issues. Spending $200-300 is a much more reasonable figure for much better quality gear that will perform to its specifications.
> 
> There is a reason for the saying, _*"You get what you pay for."*_


 baofeng uv-5r costs about $30 bucks and it works pretty good!

Which radios were you thinking about?

Yaesu is a great radio, I've had a couple (issued by my cities CERT team). the 170 and the 60, in my opinion they come with a better instruction manual, and the programming is easier, but Baofeng is perfectly manageable and the full color manual for expanded programming is available as a download, even here on our forums!


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## Geek999

Tradecraft said:


> I agree that you should get a Technician's level license. I do not agree with the radio recommendations. A handy talky is limited to 5 watts. Low quality radios may advertise 5 watts but oftentimes deliver less. Additionally, they tend to have quality control problems. When you are only dealing with a 5 watt radio to begin with losing 1-2 watts is a big deal. Spend the money and get an entry level Yaesu FT-60 which runs about $144.00. It is a quality radio that will put out 5 watts. Don't rely on a crappy radio when you are in a bad situation.


The point is mot to rely on a crappy radio in a bad situation. The point is to get someone who is just starting out with a Technician license to have something in his hands to experiment with. If you have two people and a couple handhelds you can figure out that you can communicate over a rise, or through a building, or not.

As you become more familiar with what does and does not work in your area, you can work out solutions, e.g. Antennas, change of locations, frequencies, radios, etc.

The only way to have reliable communications in SHTF is to have tested all of that in advance.

The OP was looking for 30 range, presumably it must be reliable. In my area that is quite easy off of repeaters and the repeaters worked well through Hurricane Sandy. If that were a satisfactory answer to the OP then a couple cheap handhelds would do the trick. More likely, the OP would consider it a good starting point and want to experiment and could figure out what was needed in their location.

In addition, anything bought cheaply during the learning phase is likely to be useful in some role. For instance, you find that to establish the 30 mile link you need a fixed antenna 50' in the air at both ends and set up a base station at each end. SHTF and that works, but then you also need a mobile solution for patrols ranging out to 2 miles. Those HTs will come in pretty handy even though they didn't solve the original problem.

I'll stick with my original recommendation not because I think a couple Baofengs are the solution to SHTF. I am sticking with the recommendation as a cheap way to get started with testing what works and what doesn't, knowing that the money spent won't be wasted no matter how the experiments turn out.


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## Tradecraft

Dakine said:


> baofeng uv-5r costs about $30 bucks and it works pretty good!
> 
> Which radios were you thinking about?
> 
> Yaesu is a great radio, I've had a couple (issued by my cities CERT team). the 170 and the 60, in my opinion they come with a better instruction manual, and the programming is easier, but Baofeng is perfectly manageable and the full color manual for expanded programming is available as a download, even here on our forums!


A good start for new amateur radio operators is the Yaesu FT-60. Yes, it is about $144.00 compared to Baofeng models which can typically be purchased for under $50.00. But, Baofengs are no where in the same ballpark as a Yaesu in every respect. Too many people get sucked into the low price of the Baofeng and overlook all of the radios flaws. For example, I own a Yaesu FT-60 and three Baofengs to include the UV-5R+. In testing this models the Yaesu outperformed the Baofeng in distance, transmission quality, receiving quality, and audio. During a crisis I "NEED" a radio to perform. End of story. At that point the price of the radio will be irrelevant.

I also read a story where someone did tests on the Baofengs and they rarely put out 5 watts. In some cases they would only put out 3 watts. When dealing with a handy talky the difference of 2 watts is significant.


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## musketjim

After cabin upgrades this summer, comm. will move to the top of my priority list. Thanks for all the excellent opinions and updates on this thread:beercheer:


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