# Suggestions on radio (CB, FRS, HAM)?



## PreparedRifleman73

Hi everyone,

I am pretty new to this forum but have been stalking around it for a while. You guys are great sources of information! I am sort of at the stage where I want to prepare for a few months of a power outage. I'm not at the point where I want to prepare for nuclear attacks and more extreme (and expensive) scenarios.

I am looking for an alternative method of communication, one that could be used post-SHTF. The issue is that when/if SHTF, I will either be at work or be going to work (ambulance service). While we have multiple redundancies for communication at work, I'm worried about my family.

I want to be able to get a hold of them if cell networks are down! I work anywhere from 1/2 mile to 10 miles from home. I'd like a radio system that is reliable 0-30 miles ideally, I don't have needs beyond that right now. Generally flat terrain, though our home is essentially on the top of a hill. Having a mobile radio in my personal vehicle is great, a portable would be even more ideal, though I understand that could lead to some range issues.

What's the best way to do this? CBs with some (illegal?) amplification in the cars and home? Or getting into HAM? Maybe a different system I am missing entirely? 

Thanks for you help in advance!


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## mosquitomountainman

CB's would need some modifications to be dependable up to 30 miles. HAM, even handheld units, would probably work very well.


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## jsriley5

Think even walkie talkie ham radioes are gonna be stretching the reliability really thin at 30 miles I"ve been doing a ton of research (asking questions here and the Prepared Ham website) If repeater towers are still up in your area you could stretch walkie commo 60 miles and more depending on what you have locally but in the aftermaths you are describing I am doubtfull you could rely on those. With mobiles in your vehicle I would think 30 miles should be very reasonable but then SSB CB radioes would do that as well and much cheaper. YOu could still mesh those with CB walkies and just accept you are gonna get less range. That is what I"m getting so far I am a LOOONG way from an expert on this and am sure one of those experts will be along shortly to tell you hwo wrong I AM before they get here you might kinda give them a general budget you have set aside for commo. Will help them giv e you more ideas that will actually work for you.Might also check around some of the other threads here as I was asking alot of commo questions recently and got alot of really good info that is still there for the reading and alot of it may intrest you.


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## zombieresponder

Ok...one thing at a time.

FCC regulations state that CB power output is limited to 5 watts output power(IIRC, though it may be 4 watts) and 12 watts on SSB. It's illegal, and IMO, not worth the trouble or expense to boost the power output. Second, CB radios are cheap and that means cheap components that likely won't stand up to the additional heat and power created by tweaking the internal amplifier. Finally, CB is AM and operates on frequencies which are entirely incorrect for the intended purpose(short range communications). AM audio quality sucks compared to FM...just listen to AM radio in your car compared to FM. 

FRS radios are limited to half a watt(IIRC) and it's illegal(and difficult) to put a better antenna on one or boost the power. They do operate in the UHF range, which yields good audio quality, but the range is very limited in my experience. In a typical urban environment, I wouldn't expect to get more than a few blocks out of them unless you have line of sight to the other radio user.

The GMRS radio service requires a license, but does allow you to change the antenna, though you have to live with the power limit of 50 watts. You can set up and use repeater stations. It's also FM and in the UHF frequency range, so audio quality is good. There are a number of regulations, which can be found on the FCC "eCFR" website under title 47(as can the regulations for the other radio services, including Amature radio)

The Amature radio service(HAM) requires a license, and with a few exceptions, you can pretty much do everything you can't do on the other services, and run up to 1500 watts on most frequencies. A typical handheld walkie talkie type radio outputs about five watts on the 2 meter band. With the standard "rubber duck" antenna, range sucks. You'll get a couple of miles out of it, but not much more. You'll always be able to receive a lot better than you can transmit though. Swap out the rubber duck for an upgraded antenna and you'll get better range. I've hit the local repeater with my held held, using an upgraded antenna, from my house and it's roughly ten miles away. From talking to others though, the signal is pretty weak, and if I were operating on simplex I'd be wasting my breath. Typically, I'll use a roll up antenna, some 550 cord, and a length of coax. The 550 cord is tossed over a tree branch and the antenna is pulled up to several feet above ground. This increases the range and I've actually turned the power down to 50%(conserving battery power) and gotten the same results with this method. Under the absolute best conceivable conditions, I would not depend on a walkie talkie to communicate 30 miles. The power output is just too low and it would be unreliable.

Now, your average 2 meter mobile unit(one you'd mount in a vehicle) outputs 50 watts. With a good antenna, you shouldn't have any problem at all reaching 10 miles. Actually, you shouldn't have any problem reaching well beyond that. If you combine a walkie talkie and a mobile unit that are capable, you can do something known as cross band repeating. It boils down to transmitting from the walkie talkie on one frequency, with the mobile unit set to receive on that frequency. The mobile unit then automatically retransmits on an entirely different frequency(typically the local repeater input frequency). This increases your range from say, 5 miles, to 50+ miles.

In my opinion, amature radio/HAM is the best option out there right now.


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## MRGUMBY

Zombie is right about turning up a CB being against the law.
But...with a SSB radio on the flats, you can easily...again, very easily hit 30 miles.
Throw a simple antron up 35 feet out in the plains and you can make more than 20 on AM.
If that won't do, a couple of linear amps, available all over the place, will make up the difference.
I used to have a legal powered SSB in the car and at home. Stock wattage, I could talk more than 30 miles away in CT.
There are so many great 10 meter radios out there that could do this job well.
Thousands of people use these every day, including me, on the CB freq's. 
There are not even any people enforcing 11meter rules. They ran out of money way back for that.
AM does not sound as good as FM for sure, but CB goes a lot further watt for watt of output than 2 meter FM or any other FM. It sounds plenty fine for talking on.


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## radiotech

The absolute best radio comminication is a Licnesed Itinerant Frequency. License costs $280 for 10 years ( a little over 2 bucks a month) You can run High power 50 watt, use it anywhere in the nation and best of all ENCRYPTION is permitted unlike GMRS, FRS, MURS and HAM. A license includes a frequency pair so you can run a Portable repeater, any UHF portable or mobile radio can be programmed to frequency. A properly located (read on a hill) repeater will easliy provided a 20 to 30 mile raidus coverage. I have been a ham for 15 years and ham works but in a jam the lack of encryption makes it useless in a tacitcal situation. You can get radios new or used on EBAY. Add a repeater and you have a real radio network. Look at www.tacticalrepeater.com.


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## mosquitomountainman

We regularly talk 15 to 20 miles on our handheld HAM units. I dont know if thats unusual but it works for us6


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## k0xxx

In regards to the op, here is my thoughts.

There are many factors that can affect how well an option will work for you. Living on a higher elevation in a relatively flat area, I would opt for Amateur Radio on the 2m band for a couple of reasons. The main ones are that transmit power can be adjusted to fit the situation, and stealth. Another reason is that even though there are a lot of Ham's, there are many more people that own CB's. As such the likely hood of other listening to your comms is greatly increased. Also, with Amateur Radio, there is the option of the 1.25m band. The coverage is pretty much on par with 2m and it is much less likely that even Ham's will be monitoring the band.

Depending on where the home is situated, in the middle of the area that you need to cover or on the perimeter of where you need to cover, you can use a small yagi or other type beam beam. This would allow you to lower the power even more, to possibly hand held levels, and thus conserve precious power during the situation. Of course using a beam type antenna from a moving vehicle is not exactly going to work for most people, but a handheld beam, when stationary, will work quite well. I've used small handheld beams to work satellites on 2m and 70cm.

CB would cover the area also, and can be cheaper, but the handheld CB's suck big time. They are big, power hogs, and the antennas are extremely inefficient and as a result have less range. Also, home CB antennas are a lot larger and are more likely to draw attention.

A small, mobile 12v brick amp isn't bad used in a vehicle, but forget about the larger 110v or 220v amps for the home, unless you have a lot of extra energy to burn.



hawkmiles said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I am pretty new to this forum but have been stalking around it for a while. You guys are great sources of information! I am sort of at the stage where I want to prepare for a few months of a power outage. I'm not at the point where I want to prepare for nuclear attacks and more extreme (and expensive) scenarios.
> 
> I am looking for an alternative method of communication, one that could be used post-SHTF. The issue is that when/if SHTF, I will either be at work or be going to work (ambulance service). While we have multiple redundancies for communication at work, I'm worried about my family.
> 
> I want to be able to get a hold of them if cell networks are down! I work anywhere from 1/2 mile to 10 miles from home. I'd like a radio system that is reliable 0-30 miles ideally, I don't have needs beyond that right now. Generally flat terrain, though our home is essentially on the top of a hill. Having a mobile radio in my personal vehicle is great, a portable would be even more ideal, though I understand that could lead to some range issues.
> 
> What's the best way to do this? CBs with some (illegal?) amplification in the cars and home? Or getting into HAM? Maybe a different system I am missing entirely?
> 
> Thanks for you help in advance!


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## PreparedRifleman73

So, *WOW!* and thanks for the responses everybody! I really appreciate all the help.



zombieresponder said:


> The GMRS radio service requires a license, but does allow you to change the antenna, though you have to live with the power limit of 50 watts. You can set up and use repeater stations. It's also FM and in the UHF frequency range, so audio quality is good. There are a number of regulations, which can be found on the FCC "eCFR" website under title 47(as can the regulations for the other radio services, including Amature radio)


So I don't imagine the range is very good with a limit of 50 watts then?



zombieresponder said:


> Under the absolute best conceivable conditions, I would not depend on a walkie talkie to communicate 30 miles. The power output is just too low and it would be unreliable.
> 
> Now, your average 2 meter mobile unit(one you'd mount in a vehicle) outputs 50 watts. With a good antenna, you shouldn't have any problem at all reaching 10 miles. Actually, you shouldn't have any problem reaching well beyond that. If you combine a walkie talkie and a mobile unit that are capable, you can do something known as cross band repeating. It boils down to transmitting from the walkie talkie on one frequency, with the mobile unit set to receive on that frequency. The mobile unit then automatically retransmits on an entirely different frequency(typically the local repeater input frequency). This increases your range from say, 5 miles, to 50+ miles.
> 
> In my opinion, amature radio/HAM is the best option out there right now.


Thank you VERY much. I think cross band repeating might be the way to go. While I would almost always have access to base-station or mobile radios, I think my wife would prefer to use a portable.



MRGUMBY said:


> Zombie is right about turning up a CB being against the law.
> But...with a SSB radio on the flats, you can easily...again, very easily hit 30 miles.


I might have to experiment with this before HAM to save some money. I live in west central Minnesota, relatively flat and wooded. I do live in a town around a large lake and my home is near the top of the hill.



mosquitomountainman said:


> We regularly talk 15 to 20 miles on our handheld HAM units. I dont know if thats unusual but it works for us6


What's the terrain like and what kind of units?


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## mosquitomountainman

hawkmiles said:


> ...What's the terrain like and what kind of units?


Mountainous! We have a cell phone but there are more places it doesn't work than places it does. We went to HAM to be able to communicate with each other when I was out in the woods. Our cabin sits on a mountain side which helps and hinders our comms. (Depends on which side of the mountain we're calling from/to.) I sometimes use repeaters to get through but we often communicate directly 20 miles away with the handheld units. We can easily hit 65 to 70 miles with our mobile unit. Our handhelds are 5 watt, Icom IC-V8.


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## zombieresponder

radiotech said:


> The absolute best radio comminication is a Licnesed Itinerant Frequency. License costs $280 for 10 years ( a little over 2 bucks a month) You can run High power 50 watt, use it anywhere in the nation and best of all ENCRYPTION is permitted unlike GMRS, FRS, MURS and HAM. A license includes a frequency pair so you can run a Portable repeater, any UHF portable or mobile radio can be programmed to frequency. A properly located (read on a hill) repeater will easliy provided a 20 to 30 mile raidus coverage. I have been a ham for 15 years and ham works but in a jam the lack of encryption makes it useless in a tacitcal situation. You can get radios new or used on EBAY. Add a repeater and you have a real radio network. Look at www.tacticalrepeater.com.


I'm going to have to check into this!


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## MRGUMBY

Every time people talk about this stuff, there is always the mention of others hearing your chatter...
The masses, who are poorly prepared and likely to be a drain on you, are the ones you want to avoid. If someone has enough forethought to be radio-savvy and is listening to it, they are a lot closer to someone you might be able to use.

Having been in it once and nearly in it another time, I found people being very helpful with each other. Even to the point of sharing the last of the drinkable water. 

I really hope other prep folks are not going to be out there cutting people in half in the event of a major event.
Often times, during Katrina, the sheeple needed a little focus and direction...but all in all they actually jumped UP a notch on the evolutionary ladder...being good to the elderly, disabled and taking an active role in keeping the tribe safe.

50 has a better chance than 12.


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## PreparedRifleman73

MRGUMBY said:


> Every time people talk about this stuff, there is always the mention of others hearing your chatter...
> The masses, who are poorly prepared and likely to be a drain on you, are the ones you want to avoid. If someone has enough forethought to be radio-savvy and is listening to it, they are a lot closer to someone you might be able to use.
> 
> Having been in it once and nearly in it another time, I found people being very helpful with each other. Even to the point of sharing the last of the drinkable water.
> 
> I really hope other prep folks are not going to be out there cutting people in half in the event of a major event.
> Often times, during Katrina, the sheeple needed a little focus and direction...but all in all they actually jumped UP a notch on the evolutionary ladder...being good to the elderly, disabled and taking an active role in keeping the tribe safe.
> 
> 50 has a better chance than 12.


I see that every day at work. Amen!


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## Paltik

hawkmiles said:


> So I don't imagine the range is very good with a limit of 50 watts then?


There are several factors that combine to affect range; those factors include such things as frequency (band), power, antenna, technology (e.g. modulation, mode), and the environment (e.g. buildings, hills, sunspots, time of day, ionization).

Low-frequency radio can communicate to the other side of the world on less than 50 watts, but typically relies on "propagation," i.e. bouncing signals around the atmosphere. Low-frequency isn't always great for shorter distances, as the carrier wave is outward bound and the target area may be in a "shadow" zone. Higher-frequency radio is less "bouncy" and better at penetrating buildings and stuff, and so is more popular for shorter ranges.

A typical 2m FM handheld ham radio with a rubber-ducky antenna might get you a couple of miles in simplex mode (without a repeater) to another similar unit. But hook that same radio up to a multiple-element directional antenna, and it can hit out 30 miles on 5W. Some dual-band VHF handhelds (like the Wouxons, for about $100) can also listen (legally) and transmit (not legally on full power) on FRS and GMRS as well as some Marine and Government frequencies (there is software which unlocks these frequencies, handy for TEOTWAWKI).

Or consider a tri-band mobile rig like the ICOM 706; in addition to the 2M band and 70 cm bands, it hits the 6M band (can be tweaked to include CB frequencies) and HF bands at 100W. This $700 unit operates in all modes, and with the proper antennas (we could be talking 10's of thousands of dollars here) can reach anywhere the the world. That would include several ways to communicate in a 100-mile radius on a simplex ground wave (basically line-of-sight).

In a situation where you are communicating from a mobile or handheld radio with your family at home, in normal situations repeaters should make this no problem at all. However, if the repeaters go out--and we should assume they will--you'll want the home radio to have the power and an antenna to compensate for your mobile unit's lower power and inferior antenna. Elevation is a minimum concern here, but the more gain the better. If you have a multi-element antenna elevated 30 feet above your home pointed in your direction, you should have significantly extended range; but probably not real practical.

However, if your wife can set up a simple dipole up a tree or pole, and you go to the roof of a tall building and drop your own J-Pole or something, you'd have a decent chance of communicating, even with a pair of handheld radios operating at 5W, but especially if you're going 50W-to 50W with mobile units. Mobile radios are made to run off 12V batteries, and that's also a plus. Not only would two mobile units have higher power, but the ability to operate in SSB mode would "pack it in" better so it's like getting a further power boost.

In the end, radios are a lot like guns--different ones are better for different purposes, and cost is a factor, and you'll probably end up with several.


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## Caribou

I have used VHF radios at the distances you are talking about. These are licensed for marine use but in an emergency nobody is likely to bug you. The villages around here use them for house to house communication and some have them on their snowmobile. These units don't interfere with marine traffic, due to the remoteness, so the Feds leave them alone. As long as you stay off channel 16 (the emergency channel) I can't imagine that anyone will know unless you live near the ocean or great lakes. Even in a marine area occasional use with the use of your boat name should go unnoticed. 

If you want to communicate to the general radio community then you will need to figure out what radio types are common in your area. I'm too far away for you to call me on the VHF and if you get me on the SSB all I can do is give you encouragement. Picking frequencies not used locally has both advantages and disadvantages.


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## Padre

zombieresponder said:


> In my opinion, amature radio/HAM is the best option out there right now.


I agree with everything Zombieresponder said EXCEPT I think he accidentally added a extra zero, as I believe GMRS is limited to 5watts not 50.

One thing you might think about is the fact that you need not have a HAM license to own a HAM. If it really hits the fan and you decide to transmit without one the FCC (and the IRS) will be the least of your concerns. Although, it is so easy these days to get a Tech class license that you really ought to at some point. Recently their have been a number of low quality (granted) UHF/VHF handheld transceivers on the market that are international meaning that they will transmit on certain frequencies that are currently restricted in use, but which provide a VAST range of interoperability with other radio services. Now that is strictly speaking illegal but as before we are talking about WROL. So... you could transmit on FRS, GMRS, NOAA WR, HAM, MARINE, and Emergency service frequencies within the radios UHF/VHF range. I like this fact, because it means if your neighbors have almost any other type of radio (other than CB) they will be able to communicate with you, and you with them (with 5watts). And even if they don't you could transmit messages which they could receive with a NOAA WR receiver (which are abundant in my neck of the woods). Lots of possibilities. *If you do get one of these handhelds I recommend you make a list of the various frequencies that might be useful to know.

_Again FCC regs currently make communication with other radio services (except in case of emergency I believe) a violation of the law._

Also to repeat (pun intended) what zombieresponder noted about repeaters; one of the nice things about HAMs is that there are a lot more repeaters available for this service than for the other services. If you live in an area where there are repeaters even basic gear could get you connected with folks across the country.


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## Paltik

Padre said:


> One thing you might think about is the fact that you need not have a HAM license to own a HAM. If it really hits the fan and you decide to transmit without one the FCC (and the IRS) will be the least of your concerns. Although, it is so easy these days to get a Tech class license that you really ought to at some point.


Quite true. I would encourage people to go ahead and get the license so they can set up a rig and gain proficiency in its operation before it is really needed. Hams are all about running on backup power and setting up in odd locations; you have nothing to lose and everything to gain in experimenting now with batteries, solar chargers, antennas, transceivers, etc. You'll also naturally then end up with power connectors, antenna adapters, computer software, and other accessories you might not otherwise have thought of.

Also, find a local "emcomms" (emergency communications) net and join it. Under normal conditions, such a network is really just checking in once a week at a predetermined time, and maybe practicing a little "traffic." The idea is that when an emergency happens, the net participants know where different operators are, and people know how well/poorly their rigs communicate in simplex mode. You'll not only develop useful relationships, but you'll also become familiar with the frequencies people will be listening on and how to make contact.


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## jdmcgee

I'm new here... My first post.

I know I'm a little late on this thread but I thought I'd pass the info anyway. 

I'm in Orange County, CA. Regarding HAM radios, I have a dual-band (2 meter & 70 cm) Baofeng UV-5R+ handheld that is only about 50 bucks on eBay & Amazon. Output power is 4-5 watts. It's got the little rubber duckie antenna but I can hit the WIN network repeater that's a little over 18 miles away (by the way the crow flies). Granted, it's on top of Santiago peak so sea level radio to radio communications is only about half the range. I can hit those repeaters all day & night, any day of the week... No propagation needed. A lot of the preppers in my group have bought or are buying this model. We've all been told it's got strong, clear output on the receiving end. I've got a $10 magnetic antenna that's got a stated 3db gain ordered through eBay to use on my car with it & I expect to get a little more reach out of it. There's a great Yahoo user group for this radio too. Lots of info & help for the UV-5R there. 

Just a heads up, JD

PS - I don't sell these or make any compensation from the sale of these radios.


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## LincTex

jdmcgee said:


> I have a dual-band (2 meter & 70 cm) Baofeng UV-5R+ handheld that is only about 50 bucks on eBay & Amazon.


Those little puppies are really popular!


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## zombieresponder

Padre said:


> I agree with everything Zombieresponder said EXCEPT I think he accidentally added a extra zero, as I believe GMRS is limited to 5watts not 50.
> 
> One thing you might think about is the fact that you need not have a HAM license to own a HAM. If it really hits the fan and you decide to transmit without one the FCC (and the IRS) will be the least of your concerns. Although, it is so easy these days to get a Tech class license that you really ought to at some point. Recently their have been a number of low quality (granted) UHF/VHF handheld transceivers on the market that are international meaning that they will transmit on certain frequencies that are currently restricted in use, but which provide a VAST range of interoperability with other radio services. Now that is strictly speaking illegal but as before we are talking about WROL. So... you could transmit on FRS, GMRS, NOAA WR, HAM, MARINE, and Emergency service frequencies within the radios UHF/VHF range. I like this fact, because it means if your neighbors have almost any other type of radio (other than CB) they will be able to communicate with you, and you with them (with 5watts). And even if they don't you could transmit messages which they could receive with a NOAA WR receiver (which are abundant in my neck of the woods). Lots of possibilities. *If you do get one of these handhelds I recommend you make a list of the various frequencies that might be useful to know.
> 
> _Again FCC regs currently make communication with other radio services (except in case of emergency I believe) a violation of the law._
> 
> Also to repeat (pun intended) what zombieresponder noted about repeaters; one of the nice things about HAMs is that there are a lot more repeaters available for this service than for the other services. If you live in an area where there are repeaters even basic gear could get you connected with folks across the country.


I actually couldn't remember what the GMRS limit was when I posted, so I checked it on the FCC site. It is 50 watts.

The problem with owning a ham radio and not being licensed it is that you will have absolutely no clue on how to set it up or use it, much less what frequencies/bands are used for a given purpose. Transmitting with an improper antenna or no antenna will damage the radio, and an antenna might need to be improvised. How is someone with no experience going to know how long, or what type, of antenna to make for NVIS communications with an HF radio, much less how to set it up? How are they to know how to make a directional antenna to maximize the range of a HT, or reduce the possibility of unwanted people hearing a transmission? After TSHTF is NOT the time to be trying to figure these things out.

There is ample time to learn now by going through the legal route and obtaining a license, as well as actually using a transceiver. This is no different than practicing to make fire with a bow drill or some similar skill.


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## stanb999

First... I believe the OP was suggesting use After SHTF.. So FCC regs.? The OP's house was on a rise outside of town. Best case for longer distances.

Most car/truck CB's will work especially side band for the projected distance of 10 miles. If the base has a good antenna and a good radio. A 20ft stick at the house will pull in all kinds of signal. FRS and GMRS will work if you have a decent antenna on the base station as well. GMRS a bigger antenna is legal.

Regardless handhelds will have an issues. The antennas aren't big enough. Maybe you could rig up a bigger one. IMHO a good antenna at your base it will have the best possibility of connecting. Not much else you can do. Handhelds aren't designed to work past limited distances.


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## tommixx

can the mobil cb's be used as a base station


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## zombieresponder

tommixx said:


> can the mobil cb's be used as a base station


Yes. You'll need to either run it from a SLA 12v battery on a charger or a 12 volt power supply capable of producing enough amperage for the radio in question. The power supply can be had from any number of ham radio suppliers.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> run it from a 12v battery on a charger or a 12 volt power supply capable of producing enough amperage for the radio in question.


I use a 12 volt deep cycle battery (boat trolling battery) and a 15 watts solar panel (with a Green Energies LLC charge controller) at my "remote base".


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## zombieresponder

I should have mentioned it before, but "SLA" is sealed lead acid. The main reason for this is to prevent the off gassing that standard batteries produce. I doubt it would be a serious issue, but there is a potential for fire if those gasses build up.


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## Szumi

I have a three radios. A FT-50R that can be software tweaked to transmit out of the ham band. It can do public service and FRS. How well is unknown, I haven't tried it.

A FT-8900R that can act as a repeater for the hand held. Yes there are legal requirements on doing that but if the scat hits the fan, well, do what you need to do.

I also have a Icom 760 MKIIG that can do HF in addition to the short range FM stuff.

All of these radios will operate off of DC.

I've kept my license up but don't go on the air much. I power them up periodically to keep the capacitors healthy.

Szumi


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## Outpost

Not really sure if this belongs in this thread or not, but we (my wife and I) have sort of "re-thunk" our "communications"... What to do if, for any number of reasons, communications is not available?

Cell-phones and CB on SSB is the normal "priority" if we're in vehicles and need to meet up.

If we're traveling in separate vehicles, and we're a mile or so apart, we use the AM mode.

If we're traveling and we're close, we use el-cheapo bubble-pack FRS/GMRS radios (yes, I'm licensed....). The low power is actually an advantage here. Somebody has to be close to listen in, and stay close to interfere with our communications. We have clear conversations using them when CB is unbearably full of chatter.

If one of us is wandering around the neighborhood, it's the handheld 4-watt GMRS units.

During the day, we make sure we both know where each other is and where we're heading via text-messages (so call us control-freaks.... we like each other, what can I say). Knowing this information, and having already planned to meet at the closest established meeting area (we've got about 50 around the state) should TSHTF, we actually won't need communications to collect ourselves up. Other family members (no longer living with us) have similar plans and ultimately, we'll all get together, even without real-time communications. (Yup.... I ply my better half with the promise of dinner at the closest decent eatery to our "convergence area".... She's now getting anxious for our "training sessions".... I fear I've created a monster... but I digress....)

Having radios in the cars, FRS/GMRS bubble-packs in our car-kits, CB base and mobiles, and GMRS handhelds give me a LOT of peace of mind that I can find my important people, but what REALLY gives me peace of mind, is knowing we'll find each other even without them. Once we're together, long range communications is simply no longer a concern. 

Again... and as always... your mileage may vary...
God Bless.

oh.... 

and "HAPPY NEW LONG-COUNT"!


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## PreparedRifleman73

Outpost said:


> what REALLY gives me peace of mind, is knowing we'll find each other even without them. Once we're together, long range communications is simply no longer a concern.


Lots of great info but ultimately, that is probably the lesson here. Thanks.


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## zombieresponder

Szumi said:


> I have a three radios. A FT-50R that can be software tweaked to transmit out of the ham band. It can do public service and FRS. How well is unknown, I haven't tried it.
> 
> A FT-8900R that can act as a repeater for the hand held. Yes there are legal requirements on doing that but if the scat hits the fan, well, do what you need to do.
> 
> I also have a Icom 760 MKIIG that can do HF in addition to the short range FM stuff.
> 
> All of these radios will operate off of DC.
> 
> I've kept my license up but don't go on the air much. I power them up periodically to keep the capacitors healthy.
> 
> Szumi


From what I understand, the FT-8900 can be set to transmit on an invalid frequency when using it as a cross band repeater, so that would eliminate any potential legal issues with unidentified transmissions.


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## stanb999

zombieresponder said:


> From what I understand, the FT-8900 can be set to transmit on an invalid frequency when using it as a cross band repeater, so that would eliminate any potential legal issues with unidentified transmissions.


The SHTF is what I would figure.


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## zombieresponder

stanb999 said:


> The SHTF is what I would figure.


You lost me. Right now is not SHTF, and right now to be legal certain things have to be done. Practicing now eliminates fumbling through potentially poorly written manuals with potentially incomplete instructions when one cannot afford to waste time.


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## stanb999

zombieresponder said:


> You lost me. Right now is not SHTF, and right now to be legal certain things have to be done. Practicing now eliminates fumbling through potentially poorly written manuals with potentially incomplete instructions when one cannot afford to waste time.


I agree that practice makes more perfect. I'd do it this way. Tho YMMV.

Set it up. See that it works as billed. Pack it away. A dry run. I would not do it many times many ways. I'd treat it like getting a new car... You take her up to speed. On a far off road with zero traffic on a Sunday morning. Just to see what she will do. Do it. See it. Then drive nice. Was it illegal yes. Is it likely you'd get caught. No.


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## NaeKid

jsriley5 said:


> Think even walkie talkie ham radioes are gonna be stretching the reliability really thin at 30 miles I"ve been doing a ton of research (asking questions here and the Prepared Ham website)
> 
> If repeater towers are still up in your area you could stretch walkie commo 60 miles and more depending on what you have locally but in the aftermaths you are describing I am doubtfull you could rely on those. With mobiles in your vehicle I would think 30 miles should be very reasonable but then SSB CB radioes would do that as well and much cheaper.
> 
> YOu could still mesh those with CB walkies and just accept you are gonna get less range. That is what I"m getting so far I am a LOOONG way from an expert on this and am sure one of those experts will be along shortly to tell you hwo wrong I AM before they get here you might kinda give them a general budget you have set aside for commo. Will help them give you more ideas that will actually work for you.
> 
> Might also check around some of the other threads here as I was asking alot of commo questions recently and got alot of really good info that is still there for the reading and alot of it may intrest you.


When I did my HAM course I was very interested in the *how* of the repeater towers more than the *where* of them which may have confused some of my instructors (two day course).

My understanding is that the repeater-towers are primarily grid-tied but sometimes with battery-backup. That power is required to run the electronics of the repeater-radio (the one that takes the incomming signal and re-broadcasts it to the outgoing signal).

I asked about fail-safe systems and it seems to boil down to each club doing what they want with their repeater towers, some will install a generator, some will put in a UPS and some just let the normal AC-power do it, and, if the power goes down, so does the tower. Some of the towers are attached to buildings like the fire-department (SAR-headquarters) and others are piggy-backed with the local commercial-radio towers (AM and FM towers).

There doesn't seem to be any real standards when it comes to repeaters ... so ... from there, you will only be able to rely on the signal distance of your own radio's antenna.

Is my understanding correct?


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## Paltik

Our Palomar Amateur Radio Club (PARC) repeaters on Mt. Palomar are on-grid with battery backup. The batteries can meet the considerable demands of the repeaters for more than a day.

During some wildfires in the area a few years back, and again during a recent widespread blackout, club members were standing by to tow a generator to the site. I imagine the club would keep the repeater going if possible during any short-term emergency/disaster. (Amateur radio is all about emcomms and backup power sources.) However, in case of TEOTWAWKI the repeaters would be down.


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## LincTex

Typically, repeaters are 12 volt DC - or no?

I have an older ALINCO set up as a repeater on 2 meters. A small-to-medum size deep-cycle 12V battery and a 15 watt solar panel are all it needs.


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## zombieresponder

NaeKid said:


> When I did my HAM course I was very interested in the *how* of the repeater towers more than the *where* of them which may have confused some of my instructors (two day course).
> 
> My understanding is that the repeater-towers are primarily grid-tied but sometimes with battery-backup. That power is required to run the electronics of the repeater-radio (the one that takes the incomming signal and re-broadcasts it to the outgoing signal).
> 
> I asked about fail-safe systems and it seems to boil down to each club doing what they want with their repeater towers, some will install a generator, some will put in a UPS and some just let the normal AC-power do it, and, if the power goes down, so does the tower. Some of the towers are attached to buildings like the fire-department (SAR-headquarters) and others are piggy-backed with the local commercial-radio towers (AM and FM towers).
> 
> There doesn't seem to be any real standards when it comes to repeaters ... so ... from there, you will only be able to rely on the signal distance of your own radio's antenna.
> 
> Is my understanding correct?


As far as I know, repeaters are 12v DC devices. If they're tied to grid power it's going to be with a power supply or a battery charger and a 12v battery. There aren't any standards/guidelines/requirements as to how they're powered, at least none that I've found anyway. It's up to whoever owns the repeater and has the license to operate it. It may be different in other countries, so digging through the FCC equivalent regulations for the country in question may yield more info.


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## PositivePrepper

radiotech said:


> The absolute best radio comminication is a Licnesed Itinerant Frequency. License costs $280 for 10 years ( a little over 2 bucks a month) You can run High power 50 watt, use it anywhere in the nation and best of all ENCRYPTION is permitted unlike GMRS, FRS, MURS and HAM. A license includes a frequency pair so you can run a Portable repeater, any UHF portable or mobile radio can be programmed to frequency. A properly located (read on a hill) repeater will easliy provided a 20 to 30 mile raidus coverage. I have been a ham for 15 years and ham works but in a jam the lack of encryption makes it useless in a tacitcal situation. You can get radios new or used on EBAY. Add a repeater and you have a real radio network. Look at www.tacticalrepeater.com.


Hi

Thanks for the information on licensed itinerant frequencies. Where can I find out more about this, such as the FCC form to fill out, and the frequencies which are allowed, power strengths, and other rules/regulations?

I spent some time on the FCC site and got totally confused.


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## zombieresponder

I'm interested in the itinerant frequencies too and had about the same luck as you in locating information.


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