# Cats



## Freyadog

The last couple of months have rewarded us two throw away cats. One kitten and a big male. The kitten was old enough to be spayed so we have had that done and the male is probably around two. So he is off to the vet this morning to get shots and prep him for being neutered . Will find homes for these guys when they are well from the surgeries.

Here as rural as we are it is only 58$ for spay or neuter and the cost of the rabid is extra of course. It is so cheap to get these babies fixed instead of throwing them away.

We saw a third cat about three weeks ago but haven't seen it since. Will keep looking.


----------



## Grimm

Thank you for taking care of these furry babies. I have a soft spot for strays of all kinds but mostly cats.

Maybe the tomcat could be a barn cat for you if you have need. I have seen some people raise kittens in their chicken coops to act as in coop pest control and winter nest warmers.


----------



## Caribou

I love cats. They are wonderful with a slow moist heat. Just perfect size for a crock pot.:wave:


----------



## TheLazyL

My wife has taken soooo many stray cats to the local vet that the vet gives her the humane society discounted rate.

And that is all I'm going to say about that.


----------



## hiwall

> throw away cats.


? There is a different kind?

Once you skin 'em you can tell people it was a rabbit and they will eat them and never know the difference.


----------



## backlash

Our stray cat population has been greatly reduce due to the big coyote I saw in the back yard.
The only female left has been spayed and there are a couple toms that come and go. They are way too smart and wild to catch.
We feed them and everyone gets along.
My wife came home the other day and when she opened the door our black cat just walked in.
Then she saw it wasn't out cat but some other black tom cat.
She freaked out trying to get him back outside.
All of our indoor animals just sat and watched the rodeo, including me.
I'm just an easy touch when it comes to animals.
I have a stray that now lives inside and I have $800 in vet bills for her.


----------



## Grimm

We have 6 indoor only cats. All but one were gotten as kittens. The one, Dori, was almost a year old when I trapped her to get her fixed. She was dumped by her family because they moved to a place that did not allow pets. They didn't even bother fixing her when they had her and she had a litter of 2 kittens as the result. Before we trapped Dori we had adopted one of the kittens. The kitten had a weak heart and passed at 2 years old. But Dori is over 9 years old and still a sweet loving baby.

One of the other cats is semi-feral, Lilli. I found her as a kitten covered in motor oil in a parking lot. She was a cuisinart of claws and still is at 6 years old. She has mellowed a bit but still very wild and skittish. She'll let us pet her on her terms.

I could go on with the stories about each cat we have ever had or still have.


----------



## tsrwivey

I like cats. They're pretty & soft & they purr. More specifically, I like other people's cats. There's a cat that used to live inside my house until he did his business in my house. He lives outside the house now. He's alive because Cam likes him. He gets under foot & trips me when I'm outside, he lays on the hood of my freshly washed Tahoe with his muddy paws, he's rediculous to take to the vet. I despise that cat. There will never be another cat in my house, I just can't do that smell. I prefer the two legged strays


----------



## jnrdesertrats

We have a huge furry black tom cat. He has his own door no need for a box and pretty much does whatever he wants. I think we have an understanding, when he meows in my face in the middle of the night I slap the piss out of him. Or at least I hope he is catching on to the sequence of events. Other than that he's cool.


----------



## Grimm

jnrdesertrats said:


> We have a huge furry black tom cat. He has his own door no need for a box and pretty much does whatever he wants. I think we have an understanding, when he meows in my face in the middle of the night I slap the piss out of him. Or at least I hope he is catching on to the sequence of events. Other than that he's cool.


K's cat, Alice, likes to sleep on my pillow with her butt in my face. Both K and I toss her fat butt off the bed when she does this. Last night she slept between our pillows with her head next to mine purring. I think she is learning.


----------



## Balls004

Ok, disclaimer here... I pretty much detest cats, mostly because they aren't nearly as useful as dogs. That being said, I'm sort of in the same boat as LL and JNR, my wife loves them so I have to put up with a couple of them anyway.

One lives inside/outside, and the other is strictly outside, because he's a tom and since he can't fix stuff and do chores, I won out on that one. The other one my wife discovered while deer hunting. Seems that "Bunny" who was a kitten, got dumped and was hunting a rabbit and when she saw Tara, abandoned the hunt and ran over and jumped up on her shoulder and purred. I lost that fight about 3 seconds into it. I'da had a better chance with Mike Tyson.

Cat's would be cool if they ever learned to mind even a little bit, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen.


----------



## zimmy

Freyadog: Good luck in finding homes for them, we never could.


----------



## Grimm

Balls004 said:


> Ok, disclaimer here... I pretty much detest cats, mostly because they aren't nearly as useful as dogs. That being said, I'm sort of in the same boat as LL and JNR, my wife loves them so I have to put up with a couple of them anyway.
> 
> One lives inside/outside, and the other is strictly outside, because he's a tom and since he can't fix stuff and do chores, I won out on that one. The other one my wife discovered while deer hunting. Seems that "Bunny" who was a kitten, got dumped and was hunting a rabbit and when she saw Tara, abandoned the hunt and ran over and jumped up on her shoulder and purred. I lost that fight about 3 seconds into it. I'da had a better chance with Mike Tyson.
> 
> Cat's would be cool if they ever learned to mind even a little bit, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen.


Having worked in the film industry I picked up a few tricks in training animals. All our cats except the baby, Basil, can 'sit', 'lay' and 'get'. 2 can 'roll' for belly rubs.

A spray bottle does wonders on teaching a cat the boundries.


----------



## Grimm

zimmy said:


> Freyadog: Good luck in finding homes for them, we never could.


Do I see 7 in that picture? Glad we only have 6 right now.


----------



## Balls004

I'm not adding "cat trainer" to my resume'.


----------



## Grimm

Balls004 said:


> I'm not adding "cat trainer" to my resume'.


Actually cats learn pretty fast. They can be more food motivated than dogs. That would be the reason K's cat Alice is so overweight. He gives her people food treats when he is making his lunch in the morning.


----------



## Balls004

Still ain't doing it, cat's are like Al-Queda, they're sneaky! eep:


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> K's cat, Alice, likes to sleep on my pillow with her butt in my face. Both K and I toss her fat butt off the bed when she does this. Last night she slept between our pillows with her head next to mine purring. I think she is learning.


snoopy sleeps next to my head, but I think that's more about self defense, she wont get stepped on by the dog and she doesn't have to worry about me tossing and turning at night. Ninja prefers to cuddle with the dog but also bolts instantly when I move, I probably smooshed her one night lol 

it's a complicated ordeal we call "trying to sleep through the night" LOL!


----------



## Dakine

Grimm said:


> Having worked in the film industry I picked up a few tricks in training animals. All our cats except the baby, Basil, can 'sit', 'lay' and 'get'. 2 can 'roll' for belly rubs.
> 
> A spray bottle does wonders on teaching a cat the boundries.


long ago when I was very young, I studied under Grand Master Robert Trias, his cat would shake, roll over, play dead and fetch. It would also hold newbies like me in contempt.  The cat definitely knew the pecking order ROFL!!!


----------



## Caribou

Grimm said:


> Having worked in the film industry I picked up a few tricks in training animals. All our cats except the baby, Basil, can 'sit', 'lay' and 'get'. 2 can 'roll' for belly rubs.
> 
> A spray bottle does wonders on teaching a cat the boundries.


I haven't had much luck training my wife. Just how big do they make those spray bottles?


----------



## offgridcooker

Grimm said:


> A spray bottle does wonders on teaching a cat the boundries.


This is a 5 star tip, I use a spray bottle with an adjustable spray tip, it so I can adjust it to spray across the room!


----------



## offgridcooker

This is my covered cat ramp.
My cats would not enter the ramp with without the peep holes.
It connects to a platform/cat walk, that extends to a window.


----------



## TheLazyL

Caribou said:


> I haven't had much luck training my wife. Just how big do they make those spray bottles?


Early into our marriage I trained my wife to get down on her hands and knees when she talks to me. It was easier then what I thought.

"GET OUT FROM UNDER THAT BED YOU COWARD!" is what she usually says.


----------



## jnrdesertrats

+1 on the spray bottle. All we need to do is give it a shake and he straightens up. Usually he is meowing for no reason, as far as this human can tell. Of course the spray bottle is always on the other side of the room.


----------



## backlash

We have to lock our bedroom door to keep the cats out.
One figured out how to open the lever style door knob.
If he does get in the other cat,the $800 one,comes in with him and they both will walk on me.
Then the dogs get into the act and try to run the cats off the bed and then nobody sleeps until I get up and put the cats out.
I'm still not sure who is in charge but it doesn't seem to be me.


----------



## Grimm

jnrdesertrats said:


> +1 on the spray bottle. All we need to do is give it a shake and he straightens up. Usually he is meowing for no reason, as far as this human can tell. Of course the spray bottle is always on the other side of the room.


I just have to show the cats (and the dogs) the spray bottle. K's cat, Alice, will talk back if I point it at her. I swear she is like having a teenage in the house!


----------



## TheLazyL

backlash said:


> ...I'm still not sure who is in charge but it doesn't seem to be me.


You are the one that works to pay the bills. The others are socialist freeloaders!


----------



## backlash

TheLazyL said:


> You are the one that works to pay the bills. The others are socialist freeloaders!


I figured out that all my animals are Democrats.
I supply their food, housing, and medical care.
They none work and they all just lay around the house waiting on me to take care of them. 
I want to get them all social security numbers so I can claim them as dependents on my taxes.


----------



## offgridcooker

backlash said:


> I figured out that all my animals are Democrats.
> I supply their food, housing, and medical care.
> They none work and they all just lay around the house waiting on me to take care of them.
> I want to get them all social security numbers so I can claim them as dependents on my taxes.


Witty, made me smile.
I am so yesterday, got to start using those emoticon things.


----------



## Grimm

backlash said:


> I figured out that all my animals are Democrats.
> I supply their food, housing, and medical care.
> They none work and they all just lay around the house waiting on me to take care of them.
> I want to get them all social security numbers so I can claim them as dependents on my taxes.


You mean your cats don't eat flies that get in the house or catch mice? Or act as therapists when you need one?

I take it you didn't make them sign housing/barter contracts before they moved in.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Our cats are Libertarian, they work for a living, and we pay them for their services, they also come and go as they please and are barely "ours". 


























Not sure if I can say they are any less useful than a dog, for us. When we didn't have any around the mice were a real problem out here. Don't get me wrong, dogs are incredibly useful and make keeping cats and other small animals around easier, but they can't get into the nooks and crannies that cats can.


----------



## backlash

Grimm said:


> You mean your cats don't eat flies that get in the house or catch mice? Or act as therapists when you need one?
> 
> I take it you didn't make them sign housing/barter contracts before they moved in.


They don't do much of anything except sleep and eat.
We had a mouse get in and they all just chased it around playing with it.
I had to drive home and catch it and take it outside to the feral cats.
They knew what to do with it.
If one of the cats wants petted they will let you know but when they have had enough they just move on.
Dogs just want attention and they are jealous of each other.


----------



## tsrwivey

Balls004 said:


> Seems that "Bunny" who was a kitten, got dumped and was hunting a rabbit and when she saw Tara, abandoned the hunt and ran over and jumped up on her shoulder and purred. I lost that fight about 3 seconds into it. I'da had a better chance with Mike Tyson.


Gonna have to learn to shoot faster!


----------



## Freyadog

zimmy said:


> Freyadog: Good luck in finding homes for them, we never could.


These two new ones now make five. If we find them a home we do, if we don't we don't. We are not gonna stress it. Both are sooooo lovable. Want lots of attention.

The girls at the vets office fell in love with the big male Fluffy. Say he is a Persian. He just rolled over on his back and purred. After exam he walked all over the exam table sticking his nose in jars and stuff. He is just so laid back.

Little girl is apiece of cake. She has got to be touching me.

So with their personalities we will probably just welcome these two to the fold.


----------



## Sentry18

I have no love for cats, however we do keep a few "libertarian" cats at our family farm / vacation home / BOL (which is unoccupied most of the year other than regular visits from our caretaker). They do a great job of keeping the rodent population under control and in return get access to a heated garage with a water source and cat food (which they eat very little of in the warmer months). Plus as a side benefit they disappear completely when people come around, which could be because we always have Rotties in tow. But I am very quick to euthanize strays, as are most people around here. Cats, especially feral cats, can decimate the populations of migratory waterfowl and other game birds. Since hunting is very important here groups will even organize "cat hunts" to make sure the number of cats roaming the countryside stay under control. In town Animal Control is constantly trapping cats which either get adopted or put down.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

There are no stray cats around here. They are too high on the menu for the resident predators (wolves, coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions and bears). The only cat we ever had around long enough to get old was too lazy to shake when it was cold. The dog is a better mouser than that cat ever was.

We now just use rat poison all over. When thrown under outbuildings it does a much better job than the cats ever did and causes us no problems.


----------



## tsrwivey

Sorry all you cat lovers but I couldn't resist!


----------



## backlash

Yes but can dogs predict death?

http://today.brown.edu/articles/2009/08/oscar

One of the first times Brown geriatrician David Dosa met Oscar the cat at the Steere House Nursing and Rehabilitation Center in Providence, the animal bit him. It seems Oscar wasn't inclined to socialize; he was saving his energy for more important things, such as discerning imminent patient deaths - an apparent talent that brought him worldwide renown.

"When I first met him, Oscar didn't want anything to do with anybody," says Dosa. "He spent most of his time hiding or finding a quiet place to sit in the sun."

But when a patient neared death, the physician relates, Oscar would quietly enter the room and remain until the patient passed away. Dosa described the cat's unusual habit in a 2007 article in the New England Journal of Medicine:


----------



## Grimm

Gentle cat is there for veterans at Salem VA
http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/article_d5abc5e6-df4a-583b-ab8f-5f70a45df8de.html



> The Salem VA staff thought a cat would help ease the suffering and stress for patients and their families. They adopted a male tabby from the Animal Care Center of Salem as an experiment, not knowing whether patients - or even the nurses and doctors on duty - would approve of a cat prowling the halls.
> 
> Now, it's hard for some of those same workers to imagine life in the ward without Tom. Families have thanked the staff for Tom's calming presence.


----------



## offgridcooker

My cats keep the rodents in check, I can tell when they have made a kill, they leave the gall bladder on the kitchen floor. I think it is the bitter part of a mouse.


----------



## ras1219como

I'm not much of a cat person, I prefer dogs to any other pet. But I do have a cat, a three year old calico. She is quite friendly and is more dog like than anything. She loves attention and has a habit of sleeping on my chest. She plays well with my German Shepherd and even likes to rough house with him. In addition to being a nice companion she is a good mouser and keeps the rodent population under control.


----------



## cowboyhermit

mosquitomountainman said:


> There are no stray cats around here. They are too high on the menu for the resident predators (wolves, coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions and bears). The only cat we ever had around long enough to get old was too lazy to shake when it was cold. The dog is a better mouser than that cat ever was.
> 
> We now just use rat poison all over. When thrown under outbuildings it does a much better job than the cats ever did and causes us no problems.


We never had much luck with poison around the yard, the wrong animals would manage to find it and the others were still always around. We are in a fairly animal dense area though. We did have better luck with strychnine than these modern chemicals, but still didn't cut it. No rats up here, thankfully, but many kinds of rodents. One of the absolute worst were the squirrels :gaah: Used to drive me crazy, there were hundreds around the yard, and without constantly keeping things in check they would take over the place. Caused damage to many things around the farm with nests and crap, let alone my sanity with the chattering. Not since I was a kid have I felt like spending a significant amount of time going after squirrels, and the dogs can't catch them 90% of the time, they just go up a tree and cause more noise.

Ok, maybe I am a little bit scarred by the infestation.

Nowadays, they leave a nice few acre buffer around the yard, and the few around have learned to keep quiet 

Before anyone is concerned about their impact on the wildlife, this yard is essentially in the middle of several thousand acres with no other people in it. We have more biodiversity on this land than in a nearby park, especially in regards to songbirds.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

Packrats, ground quirrels, pine squirrels, and chipmonks are like a plague around here. The dog keeps the chipmonks and gophers under control. Traps and poison work on the pack rats and my 22 air rifle takes care of the pine squirrels.

We were gone about 6 weeks one summer. When we returned I trapped and shot 24 ground squirrels out of the garden and yard the first three days we were home. I killed atleast that many more in the same area over the next week. That's about one acre in size. The dog got a bunch too. (She's a pretty good hunter.)


----------



## Dakine

I don't use poison because of the chance a hawk or owl might eat the critter and then get whacked.

there's plenty of non-chemical alternatives available to me that I'm able use those instead risking killing a bird (that is actually doing exactly what i WANT it to be doing) or one of my neighborhood outdoor cats who are also doing what I WANT them to be doing.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

Dakine said:


> I don't use poison because of the chance a hawk or owl might eat the critter and then get whacked.
> 
> there's plenty of non-chemical alternatives available to me that I'm able use those instead risking killing a bird (that is actually doing exactly what i WANT it to be doing) or one of my neighborhood outdoor cats who are also doing what I WANT them to be doing.


Hawks and owls like chicken ... I like eggs from my chickens. The two "likes" are not compatible on our homestead. The hawks, owls and other predators have millions of acres of forests and fields to hunt in. They can stay away from my 20 acres.

I don't care for stray cats either. I like to eat grouse ... so do they. Again, our "likes" are not compatible. I don't hunt, trap or kill them but I don't mind the other predators doing so either.

This brings up something to think about in a SHTF situation. If you're trying to eek out a living supplementing your diet with wild game animals or even domestic livestock, all those cute, fuzzy Walt Disney critters are competition for the resources around you. I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to surrender to critters with feathers or fur.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

ras1219como said:


> I'm not much of a cat person, I prefer dogs to any other pet. But I do have a cat, a three year old calico. She is quite friendly and is more dog like than anything. She loves attention and has a habit of sleeping on my chest. ...


My cat used to do that then one day something startled her and she peeled out across my face. Nearly shredded my nose with her claws. Blood everywhere. It could just as easily have blinded me. I did not blame the cat. It reacted naturally. I consider myself lucky and took the lesson to heart. Cats don't sleep on my chest anymore nor in my bed if I'm in it too.


----------



## BillS

We used to have 2 cats but then I got involved with fostering cats through the shelter. Now we have 5. We adopted 3 out of the 17 that we fostered. We fostered cats anywhere from a few days to 3 months. We also had 3 that had to be put down. Liver failure appears to be the most common fatal illness that cats get when they stop eating at the shelter.

A couple weeks ago we fostered a little 3 year old female calico cat that stopped eating at the shelter. She was so sweet and cuddly. I watched extra TV while she was curled up on my chest in hopes that once she got more human contact she would eat. It got to where she didn't eat much to her throwing up whatever she ate. She had a bowel obstruction and a failing liver. We only had her for a week but I got more attached to her than any of our other foster cats. I took her back to the shelter thinking I wouldn't be seeing her again. Then there seemed to be a little bit of hope but then I found out she had to be put to sleep. That was really hard.

We lost both fosters during the same week. We fostered a big 8 year old male white cat who was very friendly. We had him for 3 weeks when I noticed a big hairless red spot on his back. It turned out to be ringworm, which is a very contagious fungal disease. It's treated by oral medications and by shampooing them twice a week for 3 months, during which time they remain contagious and are easily reinfected. I was afraid to keep him because of our 5 other cats. I couldn't take him back to the shelter. They didn't have the space to keep a single cat like him for 3 months. He was put down. I felt so bad for him. He was such a good cat.

I still work for one of the local shelters as a cat cage cleaner and a cat adoption specialist. I get a lot of joy from working with the cats. Especially the kittens. 

One of the fosters that we adopted almost starved to death before she started eating. For awhile we fed her canned food whenever she wanted it just so she'd recover. We adopted her but we created a monster. Now we split a can among our 5 cats in the morning as well as the evening. Our prepping of canned cat food went from 360 5.5 oz cans to 720. We still have 25 bags of 22 lbs-25 lbs each of Purina Cat Chow Indoor Formula for our cats. I estimate we have enough food for 8 cats for a year.

A couple of our original cats learned some things from the fosters. One now tries to open cupboard doors like one of them does. Another cat now lays on my wife's mouse hand when he wants attention and she's using the computer.


----------



## offgridcooker

I am not sure if the people that own the "prepared society" forum appreciate all this cat stuff,
But as cat people we can't help ourselves.
I do have something big coming soon, that is about being prepared, a cheep small scale water treatment system.
In the mean time suffer my cat photos!


----------



## Grimm

I did it again! I took in a stray this morning! A dog. She looked like she was loved and had been groomed recently (fur trimmed). She was friendly and took to our dogs like a duck to water. I was hoping if we didn't find her family K would let me keep her.

I did find her family this afternoon. Through a face book group no less. I had to set up an account just to contact the owner.


----------



## readytogo

*Mr.Henry*

Well I loved animals, and after loosing our beloved dog we even have a stray that comes everyday for his meals and now finally he is a little domesticated, Mr.Henry here was found inside the engine compartment of my neighbor's Honda, he was just a baby then ,full of grease and oil , the girls gave him many bath and now he just loves them, he has even father 3 other beautiful males that practically own the house.
View attachment 13005


----------



## readytogo

*Mr.Henry*

Well I loved animals, and after loosing our beloved dog we even have a stray that comes everyday for his meals and now finally he is a little domesticated, Mr.Henry here was found inside the engine compartment of my neighbor's Honda, he was just a baby then ,full of grease and oil , the girls gave him many bath and now he just loves them, he has even father 3 other beautiful males that practically own the house.


----------



## hiwall

I guess cats have some dubious advantages. They are usually free and some make a fine looking rug.


----------



## Balls004

hiwall said:


> I guess cats have some dubious advantages. They are usually free and some make a fine looking rug.


Man, how I'd love to show that to my wife, but I have a triple digit IQ and know how to use all 3 of them at the same time!


----------



## Dakine

hiwall said:


> I guess cats have some dubious advantages. They are usually free and some make a fine looking rug.


That's pretty funny.

I was about 12 years old when I found my dog dead on the side of the road and carried her home and had to bury her and tell my younger sister.

I raise animals for my consumption, and I hunt animals only for consumption, not trophies. I put them down humanely, I don't glorify it and I don't celebrate it and I don't take it in jest.

A person's attitude towards (respect vs. disregard) animals says a lot more about them as a person than it does about us as people on animals.

It's long known medical/psychiatric facts that children who are cruel and mistreat animals have serious social issues.

Your stock just dropped about 50 points.


----------



## hiwall

I know this a happy cat thread. I have my own views in cats. Though I was a very dedicated hunter in the past I quit hunting when I realized that I would just watch the game and not shoot it. At that point I switched over to a camera.
Cats I feel are just another creature- not good or bad but just another creature. Some are cute and some are not. Some are friendly and some are mean. I don't really care. If someone likes cats I say good for them. If someone owns 47 cats I say good for them and I wish them well. 
But Every cat I see loose in the 'wild' I view as I would any other exotic invasive species. To me these loose cats are are a severe detriment to our natural environment. These cats I see as the same as zebra mussels or cheat grass or Asian Carp or any other exotic invasive organism that has great potential to ruin the natural environment.
So cats lovers are fine and like many people most of my friends and relatives have cats.

Take the picture of the dead cat above. That was no ones pet. A pet is something you cherish and would not let it roam free to do harm or come to harm. So it was a feral cat, an exotic invasive species.
The cat rug was likely made by someone who loved the cat and wanted to keep its memory alive after the animal passed on.


----------



## Dakine

hiwall said:


> I know this a happy cat thread. I have my own views in cats. Though I was a very dedicated hunter in the past I quit hunting when I realized that I would just watch the game and not shoot it. At that point I switched over to a camera.
> Cats I feel are just another creature- not good or bad but just another creature. Some are cute and some are not. Some are friendly and some are mean. I don't really care. If someone likes cats I say good for them. If someone owns 47 cats I say good for them and I wish them well.
> But Every cat I see loose in the 'wild' I view as I would any other exotic invasive species. To me these loose cats are are a severe detriment to our natural environment. These cats I see as the same as zebra mussels or cheat grass or Asian Carp or any other exotic invasive organism that has great potential to ruin the natural environment.
> So cats lovers are fine and like many people most of my friends and relatives have cats.
> 
> Take the picture of the dead cat above. That was no ones pet. A pet is something you cherish and would not let it roam free to do harm or come to harm. So it was a feral cat, an exotic invasive species.
> The cat rug was likely made by someone who loved the cat and wanted to keep its memory alive after the animal passed on.


okay, fine. so lets remove your last paragraph entirely, because I would agree to some(most) extent, people shouldn't consider "outdoor" cats as pets but is there anyone who has not had a pet get outside of where you want them? If you haven't YET, I'm just going to say continued good luck!. I'm baffled by the rug response but lets move past that...

how are the outdoor cats a detriment? do you currently have a shortage of any of the following?

mice
rats
lizards
birds
crickets
squirrels
uhm... what other populations do they keep in check?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...ions-mice-birds-annually-study_n_2575833.html

this may be the first time I have willingly cited Huffpo.. I need a shower now 

Are free roaming cats a natural/indigenous part of the north american landscape? probably not, to be perfectly honest I've never even thought about it from that perspective. At the same time, without them, I think we'd be hip deep in mouse turds because they slaughter a few billion mice for us every year.

and yes some people do raise mice as pets too, but just as AND EVEN MORE SO, cat owners must understand that indoor cats are pets; outdoor cats are paid assassins, inside the (cage) mice are pets, outside the cage mice are disease ridden vermin. And a big difference here being that wild stray cats do NOT want into your house, they'll be really unhappy about it actually. Mice... they're cool with that. whats in the pantry? got any boxes of noodles? do you keep any house cats? no? sweet!!!!

lol... just sayin


----------



## Grimm

Dakine said:


> Cat owners must understand that indoor cats are pets; outdoor cats are paid assassins, inside the (cage) mice are pets, outside the cage mice are disease ridden vermin. And a big difference here being that wild stray cats do NOT want into your house, they'll be really unhappy about it actually. Mice... they're cool with that. whats in the pantry? got any boxes of noodles? do you keep any house cats? no? sweet!!!!


I have a feral that lives in our house. No joke. I have had my arms and chest ripped to shreds every time we moved and we took her with us. She is sleeping on the loveseat right now on the other side of the room. She keeps to herself and even runs from us knowing we feed her and provide for her. Do I have to keep her as an indoor cat? No but I love the slicing dicing ball of claws. That sweet kitten meow gets me every time! It also helps she has a true killer instinct when it comes to mice. 

Feral cats wouldn't be such an issue in the 'wild' if people did the responsible thing and fixed their pets. Then females wouldn't break out and roam when in heat and toms wouldn't spray.

If the ferals are such an issue to Hiwall, then you need to join a TNR program in your area and do your part to reduce the feral population.


----------



## Dakine

hiwall said:


> I know this a happy cat thread. I have my own views in cats. Though I was a very dedicated hunter in the past I quit hunting when I realized that I would just watch the game and not shoot it. At that point I switched over to a camera.


you should consider photo safari in Africa. A guy I worked with gave up his job, did that for 2 months, and our manager (his former manager lol) arranged for him to come in and do a presentation. it was 2 hours of some of the most amazing pictures I've ever seen.

I could never do this, photography was his life's ambition in the first place, IT was just how he made money, actually, that's kind of like me lol, we just have different hobbies.


----------



## hiwall

A study done by the Ohio Fish & Game dept years ago of the stomach contents of cats found that pheasant was the favorite food of 'feral' cats.
Cats are like humans and kill for sport.
Cats often torture their prey, sometimes for hours.
Many state wildlife departments used to encourage hunters to kill all 'feral' cats they encountered but have long since stopped that practice due to it not being PC.
Here in AZ cats used to be listed in the hunting regulations with no bag limits and no license required.
My neighbor's cat has often brought live and dead full grown rabbits into their home even though they feed the cat very well. A well fed cat will still kill just as often as a hungry cat.



> Cats are one of the top threats to US wildlife, killing billions of animals each year, a study suggests.
> 
> The authors estimate they are responsible for the deaths of between 1.4 and 3.7 billion birds and 6.9-20.7 billion mammals annually.
> 
> Writing in Nature Communications, the scientists said stray and feral cats were the worst offenders.
> 
> However, they added that pet cats also played a role and that owners should do more to reduce their impact.
> 
> The authors concluded that more animals are dying at the claws of cats in the United States than in road accidents, collisions with buildings or poisonings.
> 
> The domestic cat's killer instinct has been well documented on many islands around the world.
> 
> Felines accompanying their human companions have gone on to prey on the local wildlife, and they have been blamed for the global extinction of 33 species.
> 
> But their impact on mainland areas has been harder to chart.
> 
> To find out more, researchers from the Smithsonian Conservation Biology Institute (SCBI) and the US Fish and Wildlife Service carried out a review of studies that had previously looked at the predatory prowess of cats.
> 
> Our study suggests that they are the top threat to US wildlife
> 
> Their analysis revealed that the cat killings were much higher than previous studies had suggested: they found that they had killed more than four times as many birds as has been previously estimated.
> 
> Birds native to the US, such as the American Robin, were most at risk, and mice, shrews, voles, squirrels and rabbits were the mammals most likely to be killed.
> 
> Dr Pete Marra from the SCBI said: "Our study suggests that they are the top threat to US wildlife."
> 
> The team said that "un-owned" cats, which they classified as strays, feral cats and farm cats, were killing about three times as many animals as pet cats. However, they said pet cats were still killing significant numbers of animals, and that their owners should do more to limit the impact.
> 
> Dr Marra said: "We hope that the large amount of wildlife mortality indicated by our research convinces some cat owners to keep their cats indoors and that it alerts policymakers, wildlife managers and scientists to the large magnitude of wildlife mortality caused by cat predation.


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21236690


----------

