# The Rush to Gold Continues



## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Why is Putin stockpiling gold? Good article, stupid question.

"According to the World Gold Council, Russia has more than doubled its gold reserves in the past five years...and is buying about half a billion dollars' worth every month."

China, India, Venezuela, and other big players are scrambling to increase their gold reserves. The handwriting is on the wall, and it appears that events are accelerating. I'm expanding my garden once again this Fall, so it will be ready for Spring planting.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

With all the talk of money printing by the Fed and the ECB we're seeing gold and silver take off. On Friday gold was up by 2% and silver by 3%. Gold was up by $100 in one week. I think we're entering a time when we're going to see gold go up by $100 a week for awhile. Most likely we'll see gold cross $2,000 and never look back.

What's surprising to me is that the euro has been getting stronger while the dollar is weakening. Since June 1st the euro is up 22%. The dollar had its one year high on July 24th. Since then it's down 4.5%. I wonder if the Fed is buying euros.

I read the article. It started out by saying it's stupid to own gold because it doesn't pay interest. It showed the same prejudice against gold that you often see in the mainstream media. They apparently don't want people to protect themselves by buying precious metals.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Unless somebody placates Germany to ensure it stays in the EU, the Euro is WORTHLESS.

I still say Silver is a better investment right now, Gold is having its day, but IMHO those of with silver can always switch to gold when the ratio stabilizes, which could potentially TRIPLE your wealth in a safe manner because they're both physical PMs.

example:
9/7/2012: gold = $1735.14, silver = $33.68, that's 51.5 to 1 (actual)

hypothetically

9/7/2017: gold = $5000.00, silver = $294.12, that's 17 to 1 (historical)

so:

If you bought 1 oz of gold and I bought 51 oz silver, in 5 yrs you could have $5000 (impressive), and I could have $15,000 (more impressive) with which I could buy THREE oz of gold, or 2 oz of gold and some more preps! :2thumb:


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

BillS said:


> ... I read the article. It started out by saying it's stupid to own gold because it doesn't pay interest. It showed the same prejudice against gold that you often see in the mainstream media. They apparently don't want people to protect themselves by buying precious metals.


It seemed to me that it was an "On the one hand..." type argument. On the one hand gold doesn't pay interest, but on the other hand the S may be HTF soon, so it may be a good idea... Either way, there certainly seems to be a rush to stockpile gold by some of the world's major players. Once the general populace gets involved in buying, it will be over, so I'm adding a little more to my pile as I can.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Has there been any media indication that the Fed or the US Treasury have been buying gold? If they haven't been, how can they ignore that those other superpowers are stockpiling it?


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

db, that's what I keep wondering, too.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Wouldnt it be hard for them to justify it, given its 'barbarous relic' status?

And Blob- I agree with your premise, but as highly unlikely as it is, theoretically the reversion of the ratio could be the other way round, with gold falling to meet it, no? Possible, but again, highly unlikely.

And to the OP- one can only assume that all the BRICS, Russia and China more specifically, would want to gather up as much as they can.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

db2469 said:


> Has there been any media indication that the Fed or the US Treasury have been buying gold? If they haven't been, how can they ignore that those other superpowers are stockpiling it?


I believe that if the US was seen stockpiling additional gold, it would create a panic over the dollars worth and hasten it's demise.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Soooo does that mean that the government, them, those, you know the ones, are blatantly running our currency into the ground?

Are they purposefully not buying gold so that the rest of the world can have more than us?


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> Soooo does that mean that the government, them, those, you know the ones, are blatantly running our currency into the ground?
> 
> Are they purposefully not buying gold so that the rest of the world can have more than us?


I don't believe so. My opinion is that they are not necessarily evil, just inept. I'm of the belief that our "leaders" have gotten us in so deep that they know there is no way out, and that it is mathematically impossible to escape the gravity of our black hole of depth. Soon we will be sucked into it and the country torn apart figuratively, if not actually.

We still own more gold than any other country on earth (_if you can believe what we are told_). It's just that since we discarded the gold standard they have told us that a gold standard isn't necessary and that the dollar, unlike all other fiat currencies of the past, is somehow different. If America were to suddenly to start buying gold, the perception would be that our leaders were admitting that the dollar is in trouble. When that happens, the death spiral of the dollar would become a death plunge. My opinion only.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> Soooo does that mean that the government, them, those, you know the ones, are blatantly running our currency into the ground?
> 
> Are they purposefully not buying gold so that the rest of the world can have more than us?


I believe the government is deliberately destroying the dollar. I don't believe they're inept. I believe they're evil. The Fed has been printing money since 2009. There's been big increases in government regulations, spending, and taxes. The debt has gone up by $10 trillion since George W Bush became president. We now have monthly deficits the size of what our annual deficits used to be.

I think the deficits are too high for the government to buy gold. If they buy gold they take gold off the market and flood it with dollars. I think the Fed buying gold would quicken the dollar's demise.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

While I am not hip to using the term 'evil', Bill is right. 'They' are bad.
And there is no way this could be blamed on ineptitude. These are smart people and they know what they are doing. The only caveat is that they have a different reality, as do we all, in where maybe, just maybe, this could turn out ok. I doubt it.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Immolatus,
That is the part that kills me. They know what they are doing. It's simple misdirection, sleight of hand. But we see it. Well ladies and gentlemen I am going to go pop a bag of popcorn, pull up a chair and watch it all unfold.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

The_Blob said:


> I still say Silver is a better investment right now, Gold is having its day, ...


I own AGQ, a double silver ETN so obviously I agree that silver is the better investment. In percentage terms, the return on silver has significantly done better than gold in the last few weeks. In fact, it has been enough of a difference that I sold my paper gold on Friday.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

The best investment in metals I see right now is in 
Copper coated lead.
It's pretty 
I can trade it for a months worth of meat.
I'm almost certain that in my lifetime it's value will skyrocket !


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> Immolatus,
> That is the part that kills me. They know what they are doing. It's simple misdirection, sleight of hand. But we see it. Well ladies and gentlemen I am going to go pop a bag of popcorn, pull up a chair and watch it all unfold.


So do we not have an obligation to do something about it?



Marcus said:


> I own AGQ, a double silver ETN so obviously I agree that silver is the better investment. In percentage terms, the return on silver has significantly done better than gold in the last few weeks. In fact, it has been enough of a difference that I sold my paper gold on Friday.


You are a bolder man than I. Those overweight 3x ETF's kinda scare me, but such is the nature of the game. Congrats, and good luck! Maybe we should all have a thread about actual investments, other than the obvious pm's and land.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> Maybe we should all have a thread about actual investments, other than the obvious pm's and land.


Sounds like a good idea.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Russia has just purchased an additional 570 metric tons of gold. That's almost equal to the weight of three Statue of Liberty's.

Putin Turns Black Gold to Bullion as Russia Outbuys World

_"The more gold a country has, the more sovereignty it will have if there's a cataclysm with the dollar, the euro, the pound or any other reserve currency,_"

Countries continue a rush to protect themselves with gold.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Several countries are devaluing their own currency. Several countries are buying gold. The end is nigh.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I agree. Now it is just a matter of what the PTB are going to make it like for us. Slow and painful or fast and painful.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

I am looking at the news every day, and what I find a little alarming is - I see talk about Gun Control Laws, Immigration Legislation, Who will leads the Catholics now the Pope is stepping down, Hero who shot Bin Laden looking for work, Ron Paul sueing for the domain name .com and .org.... but I am not seeing squat on the Fiscal Cliff... we have less than 45 days until the Fiscal Cliff appears again... I did hear one thing of Obama asking them to push another 90 days... I am starting to wonder if that 90 days isn't time for other countries to prepare for our announced bankruptcy or something... as if the can hasn't hit the wall, and they actually "know it" but won't announce it...


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I see gold and silver both dropped a fair amount today. I would think it would be rising???

invision, let it happen. I'm about ready anyway. And early spring would be a good time for :shtf2:


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

hiwall said:


> I see gold and silver both dropped a fair amount today. I would think it would be rising???
> 
> invision, let it happen. I'm about ready anyway. And early spring would be a good time for :shtf2:


Yeah, I am starting to agree with you... Time for the big red reset button to be pushed... Would like to get another couple 1000 rounds of .223 and 1000 .22-250 rounds first, six more months of food, and a couple more $100 face value of junk silver first, but I can do with what I have....


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

These are just my personal opinions:

I don't believe that we'll see any great rise in the metals until one of several several things occur. For one, a physical shortage could force the COMEX into a default position. I believe that we are getting closer to a physical shortage with every month that goes by. Look at the number of Silver Eagles that are being sold right now as a small percentage of the population is trying to protect itself. If and when the general public starts doing the same, supplies will dry up very fast.

The COMEX has a lot riding on prices not going up any further, so you can bet that they are actively working against prices spiking. There is so much paper silver and gold out there, that should supplies tighten up significantly and investors start asking for delivery of their futures contracts, there wouldn't be enough physical metal. In that case, investors would have to be paid in dollars instead of physical metal, and trading for that metal would probably be halted. After the dust settled we would find the metal at a much higher, and more accurate, price.

Another factor that could cause a great increase in metals is inflation. As the money supply continues to balloon at an incredible rate thanks to continuous Quantitative Easing (QE), all prices are rising. (Our government tries to hide the true rate of inflation from us, in an effort to look better politically, by not including food and energy into the figures.) As inflation get worse, the price of metals go up. Inflation also drives even more people to protect themselves by purchasing metals, which again lowers supplies and forces prices higher.

There are other factors that may cause dramatic price increases, but these are the big two. They are all pretty much intertwined, with each one affecting the others, until you have a cascade effect.

Over the last four years, we have been seeing more and more governments buying large amounts of gold while, at the same time, telling their citizens that there is no reason for them to worry and buy gold themselves. Uh... right.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

I think that "they" want the stock market to go up. they are doing this by buying up bonds which will make the market go up. when the market gets around 1550-1600, then something will happen to get it down fast. gold will drop so that the small people will look at the market as a place to make money on an investment that they may have. watch for gold to go down to 1,550.000 and the market to go up to 1500 or higher probably.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

"I think that "they" want the stock market to go up." Yes, they do, and its QE thats doing it. The money is going straight to the big banks, who in turn pump it into the market. Theres your inflation.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

invision said:


> I am looking at the news every day, and what I find a little alarming is - I see talk about Gun Control Laws, Immigration Legislation, Who will leads the Catholics now the Pope is stepping down, Hero who shot Bin Laden looking for work, Ron Paul sueing for the domain name .com and .org.... but I am not seeing squat on the Fiscal Cliff... we have less than 45 days until the Fiscal Cliff appears again... I did hear one thing of Obama asking them to push another 90 days... I am starting to wonder if that 90 days isn't time for other countries to prepare for our announced bankruptcy or something... as if the can hasn't hit the wall, and they actually "know it" but won't announce it...


John Williams at shadowstats.com expects the lack of drastic deficit reduction to lead to dumping of the dollar by both individual investors and whole countries.

He still doesn't expect hyperinflation until 2014 but he defines hyperinflation as a time when the largest bill in circulation is worthless enough to use as toilet paper. To me, that part doesn't matter much. Once a loaf of bread costs $100 almost everyone who didn't prepare will starve. After that it doesn't matter if it costs $1,000 or $10,000. We'll have massive civil unrest and all the stores will close.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

BillS said:


> John Williams at shadowstats.com expects the lack of drastic deficit reduction to lead to dumping of the dollar by both individual investors and whole countries.
> 
> He still doesn't expect hyperinflation until 2014 but he defines hyperinflation as a time when the largest bill in circulation is worthless enough to use as toilet paper. To me, that part doesn't matter much. Once a loaf of bread costs $100 almost everyone who didn't prepare will starve. After that it doesn't matter if it costs $1,000 or $10,000. We'll have massive civil unrest and all the stores will close.


I think (hope) he is off some, but it actually hit me yesterday shopping- i got 3 bags of Layes (normal size) $4.29 each, 3- 1.2 lbs of packs of ground beef- $4.99 each... 2 liters of coke/pepsi have gone from $1 each to $1.75 each in 6 months...

Funny i asked my wife what she thought price of chips was... she said $2.99. I showed her the bag... shocker


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Food boxes are getting smaller too. I noticed that recently with granola bars and the family size box of Kellogg's Raisin Bran. Cans of corn are smaller too. Some of them are like 11.5 oz instead of 16.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Y'all aint gonna like this, but Bill's post rammed this back into my head. (Its a song)
All I had for dinner was a can o corn...



> If and when the general public starts doing the same, supplies will dry up very fast.


This implies some general knowledge by the public. Given our discussion in the other thread, this seems highly unlikely, no? And by the time the public wises up to whats going on (hah!) it'll be waaay too late.



> investors start asking for delivery of their futures contracts,


Does anyone actually ask for physical delivery? Isnt the minimum contract for $10k? That would be an awful lot of metal to actually move. I assume that if they do "take delivery" that means a different nametag is put on some stack in some vault.
In a perfect world, yes the price would go through the roof, but (see above) assumedly by that time the ptb (Comex and JPM and everyone else) have exhausted all efforts to stop it, and its all over. If you didnt have it by then, uh, sorry...(Germany, you will have to wait seven years to get your gold. No problem, right?)

I happen to think that outside of the run of the mill inflation in actual goods (bread/corn, etc) that QE is only causing inflation in the markets right now, which would include metals futures. I think that very little of this money is filtering down to the masses, which is stifling the otherwise massive inflation this would be causing.



> until you have a cascade effect


Oh, it'll be a cascade effect alright. *poof* Everyones wealth disappears in a cloud of dust! I kinda have this feeling that phyzz would crash mightily as prices of consumer goods skyrocket as the economy takes a nosedive. Then after a brief settlement period, it takes off like nothing we've seen in this country. Is that scenario remotely possible?



> Over the last four years, we have been seeing more and more governments buying large amounts of gold while, at the same time, telling their citizens that there is no reason for them to worry and buy gold themselves. Uh... right.


Wait a sec, are you implying that they would deliberately mislead us? I am shocked! They have our best interests at heart, dont they?
/sarc


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

"Does anyone actually ask for physical delivery? Isnt the minimum contract for $10k? That would be an awful lot of metal to actually move."

$10,000 gold is just over 1/2 lb. Even I can move that much weight.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

hiwall said:


> "Does anyone actually ask for physical delivery? Isnt the minimum contract for $10k? That would be an awful lot of metal to actually move."
> 
> $10,000 gold is just over 1/2 lb. Even I can move that much weight.


You are very correct. Also, $10,000 in silver is currently about 312 ounces. I can tell you for a fact that it doesn't take up that much room and would fit into a USPS flat rate box.










For a relative size comparison, sixteen of these tubes of Silver Eagles (like those above) would be 320 ounces, and the tubes of twenty that Silver Eagles that come in take up even less room. In 10 ounce of 100 ounce bars, even less space is taken up, and those amounts are shipped around the country all the time.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Sorry for not elaborating. I would think (I dont know) that people who trade in metals futures (and I am only talking about silver, not gold because thats my thing) buy these things in large lots, not just one at a time. Hmmm. On cmegroup.com 35k March silver futures (and they are 5k oz each, not $10k) were settled today, but the daily transactions show lots of 1 each. Not sure how to interpret this. I wouldve thought these things are traded in huge lots, and only for the paper investments, not for one to actually get their hands on phyzz. If you really wanted to buy the metal, why mess around with futures? These things are paper deals (for hedgers?), not for metals, right? I could go to the store tomorrow and buy 300 oz in 3 one hundred ounce bars, why get involved with the CME? So, my post was assuming large lot buying not one at a time, that these are mostly speculators/manipulators/hedgers not phyzz buyers, and that none of these traders actually take delivery, as in deliver it to my house. http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/metals/precious/silver_quotes_timeSales_globex_futures.html Those are some odd tables, no?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Immolatus, I see what you mean. The ones buying futures don't want the metal, it is just another investment. Like I've traded stocks for years but I have never had a stock certificate in my hands.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

U.S. dollar's share of central bank reserves falls to 54% in 2012

*"As the world's central banks look to diversify their reserve portfolios, they're cutting back on U.S. dollars and the euro and buying more gold, Japanese yen and Chinese yuan..."*

Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> Official (gold) reserves of global central banks grew to more than $12 trillion in 2012


I think that is way more than all the gold there is in the world(including my one gold coin).


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

There was an article a little while ago about Germany wanting the return of their gold from the US. They also wanted to take a physical audit of it, the US declined to let them audit. So, dude in a position of power said that it did not matter if there was actual gold in the vaults, it only mattered how much gold the books said was in there.

I personally think there is very little actual gold in the vaults. It has all been traded out and used to back all the paper gold trading out there. Once the US went off the gold standard it was a wild west free for all. If you do not hold it you do not own it.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Woody said:


> There was an article a little while ago about Germany wanting the return of their gold from the US. They also wanted to take a physical audit of it, the US declined to let them audit. So, dude in a position of power said that it did not matter if there was actual gold in the vaults, it only mattered how much gold the books said was in there.
> 
> I personally think there is very little actual gold in the vaults. It has all been traded out and used to back all the paper gold trading out there. Once the US went off the gold standard it was a wild west free for all. If you do not hold it you do not own it.


Couldn't agree more... Germany also (I believe) found that other locations such as Great Britain also wouldn't allow them access, that they didn't physically have possession anymore, but it was "on the books"

In hand only way to go....


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