# Fall and then....... Winter



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Ok so fall is on top of us and winter is next, are you ready? Don’t forget the antifreeze or heating oil or gas or wood and just in case you lived far out plenty of instant coffee and tea and water, how about checking your equipment,coleman lanters,white fuel ,generator setup for tri-fuel ?.Trim the tree branches away from the power lines coming to your home box, they get heavy with snow, if you are up in years start early on your readiness ,make sure the misery and pain stays outside the home and not in and if you have to get some help make sure is not of the criminal type. Let’s be safe folks.


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

We are expecting a unusually wet and cold winter. I always enjoy trying to see how things run around the ol homestead when severe storms cripple normal infrastructure in our neck of the woods. I saw your post last week and commenced to check the generator. Found out some nimrod (me) had left the fuel turned on and the carb loaded with fuel all summer with no test loads or runs. Now I have the pleasure of pulling the carb and overhauling or at least cleaning out the varnish. At least I found it before I needed it.....


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

smaj100 said:


> ... Found out some nimrod (me) had left the fuel turned on and the carb loaded with fuel all summer with no test loads or runs. Now I have the pleasure of pulling the carb and overhauling or at least cleaning out the varnish. At least I found it before I needed it.....


How about before rebuilding the carb, seeing if she'll run first?


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Lazy,

She'll start with a stream of starter fluid into the carb, but wont stay running. So either I the gas went bad in the tank itself, or the carb/float is gummed up with varnish. I'll drain the tank and try some fresh gas to make sure it isn't bad gas, fairly certain that its gummed up. I always add stabilizers to my fuel when it arrives on the farm.


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

if all goes well.i'll not only have the needed burners and lamp oil for my oil lamps.and a back up generator for outages.but a fan for a propane heater we have as well...hopefully all this will be done by the time it gets cold out..


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Triple post


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

smaj100 said:


> Lazy,
> 
> She'll start with a stream of starter fluid into the carb, but wont stay running. So either I the gas went bad in the tank itself, or the carb/float is gummed up with varnish. I'll drain the tank and try some fresh gas to make sure it isn't bad gas, fairly certain that its gummed up. I always add stabilizers to my fuel when it arrives on the farm.


Yep. I'd lean towards a carb rebuild too, now knowing it will only run on starter fluid.

I jumped to the conclusion that my mower would started because of old gas and carb varnish and/or float sticking. Rebuilt the carb and mower still wouldn't start. Turned out to be the fuel filter and the gasohol I didn't realize I had been using.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Double post


----------



## kilagal (Nov 8, 2011)

I think mental health in fall and winter are also super important. So I have been sure this summer to get things for that as well.
I do not drive in the winter. I just prefer to stay home when the roads are nasty.
So I have picked up some new to us games. More cards for cribbage. Stuff for dh to make more fishing tackle. Fabric and patterns for sewing and quilting.


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

i agree with having things to do,to stay occupied during the winter is a good idea,for 2 reasons..i dont like getting out when it's cold out.and chances are.there'll be days i won't be able to go anywhere.due to the weather.


----------



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

My family loves winter. We are all very pro-cold and rarely turn on our furnace until guests refuse to come to our house anymore. I have been known to shovel or snow blow in shorts and a light jacket. So I say bring on winter! 

This month I re-caulked a couple windows and put new weather stripping around two doors. The Mrs. took out all of the milsurp wool blankets and aired them out for 1/2 a day before refolding them and putting them away. We also had our furnace inspected and a new 6 month HEPA filter put in. At the end of October I will make sure all of the propane tanks are filled, do the pre-winter test of the generators, check my gasoline supply and test all of the back up heaters. The wifey will drag out all of the hats, gloves, long underwear and other winter gear and get them ready. Last spring I bought 7 "Heat Factory Warmer Packs" on clearance for $8 a case and 3 cases of "Hot Hands" for $6 a case, so I will need to dig those out of the man cave just to have them available too.


----------



## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

Sentry,Sorry I'm just the oppsite.Being raised in the "islands" and living in Fla for many years I dread the very cold weather in KY...but since it's my home now I had better get use to itI see lot's of hot chocolate,blankets,and coats,scarfs and gloves in my future.


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

smaj100 said:


> We are expecting a unusually wet and cold winter. I always enjoy trying to see how things run around the ol homestead when severe storms cripple normal infrastructure in our neck of the woods. I saw your post last week and commenced to check the generator. Found out some nimrod (me) had left the fuel turned on and the carb loaded with fuel all summer with no test loads or runs. Now I have the pleasure of pulling the carb and overhauling or at least cleaning out the varnish. At least I found it before I needed it.....


I always keep fuel preservative on my gas cans just to keep everything running clean but an extra carburetor is not a bad idea right alone a gasket set, I take the dirty carb out and put it in a can full of kerosene or mineral spirits, it cleans the carb well then spray it with carburetor cleaner, never had any issues, I also clean the gas tank and try putting a fuel filter on the line, it helps a lot. Running the equipment dry is also a good idea before storage like draining the carb.Good Luck.


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

We all know of the many out there that fail to prepared properly and end up in a bad situation ,been locked up in winter without the real needed supplies is and can be dangerous. Propane and white fuel lanterns need mantles , a box of matches ,lighter fluid for the old Zippo and don`t forget to put a load on the old generator, it may start but it may not put out any power ,everybody in the household should have a flashlight handy ,plenty of hot chocolate and comfort foods to go around ,as little alcohol as possible for a clear head and a new fire extinguisher. Call friends and relatives and remind them also of the coming winter and safety issues, the bottom line is to be safe folks.


----------



## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Yep.... time to turn off the sprinklers and prep the house. Although my family and I like it so cold we need to change our names to the Starks! We have had alot of spiders sneaking around so I need to spray again but everything else is pretty much ready.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Diatomaceous Earth*



mojo4 said:


> Yep.... time to turn off the sprinklers and prep the house. Although my family and I like it so cold we need to change our names to the Starks! We have had alot of spiders sneaking around so I need to spray again but everything else is pretty much ready.


It is good to sprinkle some diatomaceous earth around in places that are hidden, such as behind furniture, book shelves, basement nooks and crannies. It takes care of the insects that come around and saves you using toxic sprays.


----------



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

gabbyj310 said:


> Sentry,Sorry I'm just the oppsite.Being raised in the "islands" and living in Fla for many years I dread the very cold weather in KY...but since it's my home now I had better get use to itI see lot's of hot chocolate,blankets,and coats,scarfs and gloves in my future.


Funny, I never thought of Kentucky being cold or wintery at all. I don't even consider Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, etc to be really cold or wintery. My definition involves sustained weeks of below zero temps and snow so high driving down the street feels like a roofess tunnel. Up here we have two snow blowers, one for the front of the house and one for the back. So much snow builds up on our roof we have to rake it off. Last year the kids were held out of school four times because the temperature was below -60 (with windchill). Love it. I wouldn't have it any other way!


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Last year the kids were held out of school four times because the temperature was below -60 (with windchill). Love it. I wouldn't have it any other way!


Where do you live the North Pole?

I'm with Gabby. We live in NW Tn and we get just enough of the white stuff to be nice. I don't need to sweep the roof, or use a snow blower, but it still gets cold for this Tx boy.


----------



## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

It'sa good thing we have people in this world like you and your family that loves the white stuff,Oh I do it's called sand!!!!!Or everybody would be living on the coastal areas...oh yes, many all ready do.I just hope one day my blood thickens up and I don't freeze all the timeThey say if everybody liked vanilla ice cream it would be a boring world.Me, give me lots and lots ofsunshine and a nice ocean view and a double dip of chocolate ice cream.Now that Iammoving I guess it's one dip of vanilla and one dip chocolate


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I spend ALL SUMMER preparing for winter! Doesn't everybody?

As for the gummy carb - - -try this first. Just pull the bolt out of the bottom of the float bowl and remove it. (pulling the entire carb can often be a huge pain). Armed with your trusty spray can of Berryman's B-12, clean what you can with the little red straw... focus on the area around the inlet needle and the bottom center (main jet). Add a "pour can" of B-12 or "sea foam" to the gas tank. See if it will now run on partial choke. If it get's tot hat point, after a little while running it should run fine with the choke all the way off as it clears up.


----------



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

smaj100 said:


> Where do you live the North Pole?
> 
> I'm with Gabby. We live in NW Tn and we get just enough of the white stuff to be nice. I don't need to sweep the roof, or use a snow blower, but it still gets cold for this Tx boy.


The entire spread of Northern states are wonderfully winter-tastic. Even then we can't compare to the awesome winteriness of Canada. If you have never experienced your tears freezing to your eyelashes the second you walk outside or having to plug in your car even if you're just stopping home for a couple hours so it will restart when you leave, you are missing out. Of course there are other awesome tangibles that come with the ice-age like winter: reduced population, reduce crime rates, very low homeless rates, lower cost of living, lower property costs, more undeveloped land, etc., etc. Oh and did I mention that Rottweilers love snow? Cause they do. It's like Disney Land for them all winter long.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

It takes most of the month of August to thaw me out from the proceeding winter.


I spent a long weekend in Tombstone, AZ. 

A Local mentioned snow.

Me: Snow?! You have snow? How much? (I'm thinking feet and months).

Local: We have quite a bit.

Me: (well lets ask again in a different way). How long does it last?

Local: For quite awhile. Sometimes all the way into the afternoon.


----------



## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

RTG, I'm so glad you started this thread. I'm realizing that I don't have everything in place that I need to, but I'm well on the way considering the temperate PNW climate.

Tonight I'm stitching a scrungy old blanket onto the back of a really beautiful but thin antique bedspread I plan to mount on the LR wall for insulation. The only other one I need to worry about is my BR wall, and that needs a lot less work (just a sleeve and a curtain rod - I've hung it before.) I have an electric blanket, and in the worst case scenario most of a roll of bubble wrap left over from my move to tape over the smaller windows.

My car is in excellent shape for a '93. I did notice that a couple of my flashlights are missing after the burglary (yes, things are still coming up missing. It's a process.)

I have plenty of food stores but I still haven't organized them after my move. It's not urgent by any means - I know I have way more than "enough" to see me through a storm, which was my whole goal when I started prepping a couple years ago. I already put some winter greens in the garden. I have water, but I could beef up those stores.

I could put brackets on my bookshelves to stabilize them for an earthquake, I guess ... we just don't have much in the way of winter weather here. It's all rain, and with the drought that's not really happening either. I'm open to suggestions.


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

notyermomma said:


> Tonight I'm stitching a scrungy old blanket onto the back of a really beautiful but thin antique bedspread I plan to mount on the LR wall for insulation. The only other one I need to worry about is my BR wall, and that needs a lot less work (just a sleeve and a curtain rod - I've hung it before.) I have an electric blanket, and in the worst case scenario most of a roll of bubble wrap left over from my move to tape over the smaller windows.


Moving blankets work great for window insulation (so long as you don't mind missing the light). I just thumb tack them to the window trim. At $5-10 each, they're cheap, multi-purpose blankets. Everything from insulation to beach to ball games to vehicle emergency blanket...


----------



## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> Funny, I never thought of Kentucky being cold or wintery at all. I don't even consider Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, etc to be really cold or wintery. My definition involves sustained weeks of below zero temps and snow so high driving down the street feels like a roofess tunnel. Up here we have two snow blowers, one for the front of the house and one for the back. So much snow builds up on our roof we have to rake it off. Last year the kids were held out of school four times because the temperature was below -60 (with windchill). Love it. I wouldn't have it any other way!


You are limiting yourself to only the Minneapolis area or Canada or central and Northern Alaska. The winters in Southern Alaska, Colorado are mild compared to Eastern Nebraska, Iowa, Chicago areas. I see multiple weeks of below zero temps and constant wind with negative 40-50 below wind chills almost daily during the worst few weeks of winter. We do not normally have more then 1 foot snow fall at one time but I have had 25 inches in one snow event. It's not uncommon here to have the same snow on the ground in March that fell in October.

The only areas in the country with worse winters then we have are Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota, Eastern South Dakota, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. The Northeast areas get a lot of snow but it's never the severe below zero temps that the far north central areas of the country get.

I like the winters, it clarifies everything, kills all the bugs, freshens the air, and makes it easy to spot the guys on Meth (they're the ones wearing shorts).


----------



## Kodeman (Jul 25, 2013)

Don't forget to either drain or remove any hoses that are on exterior house water faucets. I also shut the water feed to these faucets and run them dry.


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Garden hoses are already drained and stored. 

Changed the oil in the Mule, tire pressure checked and a general look over. End of October I'll put the snow plow on.

Leaves are starting to fall. Once the trees are bare I'll drag out the extension ladder and clean out the gutters.

Then cut the water Lilly in the fountain pond down to the planter. Pull the pump and filter for storage.

Special bank account for LP tank refill has enough accumulated to last thru the winter. Especially if prices remain reasonable.

Snow shovel has been moved from the shop to the house garage.

Arizona relocation dreams have been dusted off again...


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Kodeman said:


> Don't forget to either drain or remove any hoses that are on exterior house water faucets. I also shut the water feed to these faucets and run them dry.


Yep. I forgot to take off a hose, faucet froze and split open. Only leaked come Spring when I turn the faucet on, water spraying all over the basement. Wife was very extremely not pleased.


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Finally got around to draining the gas from the generator, pulled the carb. Main jets were plugged with some gum/varnish in the bowl. Soaked, cleaned and reassembled, started on the 2nd pull.


----------



## iknownothing (Nov 4, 2011)

Getting things ready here too. I guess my better half and I are the crazy ones. We wanna move TO Ohio from Tn. Tired of this place, been here 15yrs in this house. Would love to find someone to buy this place.


----------



## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

Hard to think about winter when it is 95 during the day. It is dropping to 60 or so at night. Should get a break soon. All the winter cover crop is drying fast. Wonder if I need to disk around fence lines and house as fire break? Hopefully I can be home next week and get propane tank filled. Only use gas stove, all else is electric. Only filled 1 time in 8 years and twice put 100 gallons.


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

yeah.it starts out in the upper 40's or lower 50's in the morning here..then it's up between 90 and 100 degree's here by noon..


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*This is what I mean folks.......*

Mother Nature is really unpredictable and that is why we should all be prepare.
https://gma.yahoo.com/video/freezing-temperatures-sweep-across-several-125648889.html
:beercheer:


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

yeah.i watched that on tv last night..and im wondering if we're gonna have a hard hard winter this time round...


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

Farmers almanac is calling for a cold and wet winter for TN this year.....


----------



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

winter is a blessing, it kill the bugs and keeps the weak indoors, of course there will be storms and roads will be closed, people will be caught miles from anywhere with just house clothes ......... it happens every winter...


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

Thats one thing that always gets me.folks know to prepare to be stuck at home dureing winter.but yet they dont prepare for that,when it comes to meds,food,drink,propane(if needed)..among everything else


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

jimLE said:


> Thats one thing that always gets me.folks know to prepare to be stuck at home dureing winter.but yet they dont prepare for that,when it comes to meds,food,drink,propane(if needed)..among everything else


Agreed.

I have in-laws (and a wife) that are not capable of thinking 5 seconds in to the future, ADHD. Plus they weren't raise to think for themselves, everything was done for them. And we have a Federal government that reinforces that mentality.

Severe snow storm. Couple stuck in a snow drift trying to get to Wal-Mart. They are wearing thin shirts, shorts and flip flops, no coats. Car is heated and Wal-Mart is heated so no need to dress warm mentality. No shovel and have no idea where to hook my tow strap to their car. :nuts:

ADHD. Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) is a mental disorder that causes above-normal levels of hyperactive and disruptive behaviors. People with ADHD tend to have difficulty concentrating, sitting still, paying attention, staying organized, following instructions, remembering details, and/or controlling impulses.


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

We had the propane tank filled for its annual fill, last week. 226gallons @2.59 (ouch). But that was 1yrs worth of normal usage, and I would rather have it filled late summer when prices are down and head in to winter with a full tank. Firewood for this winter is up and i'll be splitting next winters wood once the temps come down a little more. Moved a 250gallon water tank inside the chicken coop and wrapped it in insulation to prevent freezing this winter. More work to finish winterizing the farm but we are getting there slowly.


----------



## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

Snowing lightly here. Yep, winter has arrived. Have been cutting firewood like crazy the last while, almost have another years worth stacked and drying for use in a couple years.

Our lambs are cut and wrapped and in the freezer. Need to do our hogs next week, followed by a steer. All our canning is done except for meat sauce........... have to wait until deer season is over in late November.

I love winter. Getting ready for it is something we do well in advance and we have a routine/schedule. We pretty much keep a two year supply of most everything that we can except for items that do not store well for that length of time............ like the crap gasoline they serve up these days. Even with stabilizer it doesn't work well in small engines after a year, if that long.

Just had our fuel tanks topped up a few weeks ago so we are good for the whole winter and spring now.

Yes, let the snow fly. The less people we see over the next 6 months the better we like it.


----------



## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

we have 1 outdoor faucet,with a 4x4 behind it.i took some 1/2 inch plywood and boxed it,when it comes to the plumbing,that comes up from the ground,to the faucet.then i used 1 aerosol can of foam to insulate it.i did that 4 years ago.other than the non-treated plywood.it's still good as new.


----------



## fteter (May 23, 2014)

Here in northern Utah, fall and winter have been a bit late in coming. In fact, we had the warmest October on record for these parts. But it's been coming on strong over the past week...we'll likely see our first hard frost the first week in November.

I have a checklist I run through when the weather turns. It roughly runs something like this:
1. Put my primary and backup heating systems through a dry run.
2. Rotate the gas fuel storage for the cars
3. Give the garden beds one last, deep drink - thus draining the water collection barrels in anticipation of new snow.
4. Turn off the irrigation system and drain the backflow valves
5. Harvest the last of the tomatoes, potatoes, and apples
6. Freshen up the mulch in all the gardening beds
7. Drain gas from the lawnmower
8. Vehicle maintenance - oil, filter, lube, check & rotate tires, throw some tube sand in the pickup truck, check the antifreeze, mix a little vinegar with the windshield fluid (so it won' freeze), new wiper blades.
9. Inspect the seals around the windows and doors; fix anything that looks off.
10. Replenish the wood pile
11. Can up stuff for eating in cold weather (it's a fall tradition)
12. We have a small lawn...so fertilize with Winterblock
13. Spray down the garage, shed and outbuildings with Peppermint Oil to repel the rodents.

That's the checklist for the suburban homesteader that I am...

That'll pretty much do it.


----------



## Reblazed (Nov 11, 2010)

Checklist are always good to have as reminders ... but talk to me about this one, please ...



fteter said:


> 13. Spray down the garage, shed and outbuildings with Peppermint Oil to repel the rodents.


Do you mix it with something? Do you spray the ground or foundation or building ???? Help, please.

.


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Where I live the average low for the month drops from 40 in October to 28 in November. It might hit 60 one last time early in the month but we'll probably have snow on the ground by Thanksgiving. I hate the summer heat and I hate the winter cold. There's probably 6 to 8 weeks somewhere in the middle when I'm happy. Same thing between winter and summer.


----------



## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

We were driving in snow and ice Tuesday. Of course, it was at 10,000 feet in the Rockies.


----------



## fteter (May 23, 2014)

Reblazed said:


> Checklist are always good to have as reminders ... but talk to me about this one, please ...
> 
> Do you mix it with something? Do you spray the ground or foundation or building ???? Help, please.
> 
> .


Foundation and building...and anything that will hold still. Pure Peppermint Oil. It's the smell that drives them away and keeps them away.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Spiders!*



mojo4 said:


> Yep.... time to turn off the sprinklers and prep the house. Although my family and I like it so cold we need to change our names to the Starks! We have had alot of spiders sneaking around so I need to spray again but everything else is pretty much ready.


I just got this in an email from Mother Earth News. I have never tried it. I do not use this type of soap and don't think I have ever bought any. I am going to get some on my next shopping trip.



> How to Eliminate Spiders
> Discover how to eliminate spiders in your house by using soap shavings.
> 
> By Mary Ann Reese
> ...


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

The weather can turn on you in a minute folks, take a look.
https://gma.yahoo.com/video/tornadoes-thunderstorms-move-across-south-111359673.html
You know folks I just hope that many read this post because every year many will suffer from acute stupidity especially the new people that happen to moved from the city to rural areas or country to admired the beauty of the land only to realize later how deadly mother nature can be.


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Strong El Niño sets the stage for 2015-2016 winter weather ,http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/storie...s-the-stage-for-2015-2016-winter-weather.html .Again the weather news is somehow alarming , bad weather is expected in some areas more than others meaning that everybody should be prepared no matter what part of the country you lived in .Is your heating oil or gas going up? , Can you store ex-fuel at home, safe? , let`s not forget to check the fire extinguishers .I don`t have to worried about winter but I do keep a list around that really helps me remember with my other helpful information; I can`t remember everything.
http://takewinterbystorm.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/TWBS_EmergencyChecklist_2012_v2.pdf
I just hope everybody pays attention and don`t get to over confidence.


----------



## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

Well winter is here now. The El Nino has certainly kept things milder than normal for the last few weeks, no snow and ponds still ice free most nights. 

But this evening it is 22F right now, snowing, and the wind is gusting to 55mph. Windchill is down to 0F and will get down to about -5 tonight. 

Tried to take the dogs out for a pee a short while ago. I opened the door and they put on the brakes and looked up to me with that "You can't be serious?" look on their faces. Nice night to sit by the fire.


----------



## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

In West Ky,

Normally I been burning firewood for 2-3 weeks,

So far , here it is Nov 19th and have not had to build a fire . Saving firewood.

Maybe this weekend,
they are predicting some temps in the 20s at night.



Jim


----------



## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

phideaux said:


> In West Ky,
> 
> Normally I been burning firewood for 2-3 weeks,
> So far , here it is Nov 19th and have not had to build a fire . Saing firewood.
> ...


We went through about 5 cords of wood last year, put up 7 for this winter. We'll see how it goes since we've lit the fire once a few weeks ago to burn out the cob webs.


----------



## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

smaj100 said:


> We went through about 5 cords of wood last year, put up 7 for this winter. We'll see how it goes since we've lit the fire once a few weeks ago to burn out the cob webs.


Jezzzz&#8230; 5 cords? are you heating half of TN?  Dad, for 1300 sqft only uses a cord, maybe a cord and a half on a bad winter. It's his only source of heat besides a small 3 brick wall mount gas heater, he rarely lights more than one brick. He has a home welded fireplace insert with blowers. It's the second story of a 2 story house. Still, in the days before the insert he rarely used more than 2 cords. N. Alabama isn't that much colder than TN. :dunno:


----------

