# Charcoal questions..(boring)



## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

What are everyone's thoughts on stockpiling commercially available charcoal..ie Kingsford or equivalent? Does charcoal loose its effectiveness over time? If there is no lighter fluid available is there something else that could be used in its place? What say you:dunno:


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

It is expensive per BTU, it takes up a LOT of space, and you can't use it inside like propane. 

Either use plain ol' wood that you gather for cooking and heating in a stove (very cheap) or invest in a few 20lb tanks of propane and a propane camp stove. 

I can cook ten times the amount of food on one 20lb tank of propane than I can one bag of charcoal, and they take up the same amount of space.

Propane also lights up RIGHT NOW, vs. the long wait time with charcoal.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*People do store it*



rf197 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on stockpiling commercially available charcoal..ie Kingsford or equivalent? Does charcoal loose its effectiveness over time? If there is no lighter fluid available is there something else that could be used in its place? What say you:dunno:


I have read that people store charcoal, but I agree that there are cheaper and easier fuels to store. I have always kept an extra bag for my meat smoker, but do not keep more than that.

When I considered it as an option a number of years ago, I thought it would store best in junk 5 gallon buckets with tight lids or 55 gallon drums that could be sealed up.

You can make your own charcoal also. I believe there are youtube videos that show you how this is done.


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## JackDanielGarrett (Sep 27, 2010)

rf197~Charcoal will store in an airtight container for some time. I have used a fireplace grate on blocks and burnt wood on the top, hot coals feel through, and shoveled it in the grill. (A few cross pieces were removed, to allow coals to drop to the ground) I do enjoy cooking on charcoal, and I have a gas burner...for boiling water....

A good way to light the charcoal without starter fluid is to punch 1" holes in the bottom of a coffee can, put newspaper in the bottom and charcoal on top and ignite paper. 

Anything you can cook in an oven, you can cook on a grill. 
Jack


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

They have found charcoal over 10,000 years old that still burns once dried out.


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## Sparky_D (Jun 3, 2013)

I only use hardwood lump coal. It is much friendlier to long term storage than briquettes.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Royal-Oak-All-Natural-Hardwood-Lump-Charcoal/19546016

I light mine with a chimney starter and a few pieces of newspaper. I used a tinder fire under the chimney starter to light the coals last year when we were at a park and forgot to pack newspaper.

While I agree that wood is the better option for long term storage, lump coal would be my second choice.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I have had plain ol' Kingsford briquettes get rained on, and once dried out they operated as normal. Didn't even get crumbly. 

But I will not store ANY as a prep since there is too much wood around me (including good oak, mesquite and pecan for some yummy smoking) and I am exclusive on propane for indoor cooking.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I don’t use it, I grill with wood. It is much faster, cheaper and I love the slight burn on things like that.

I converted a broken propane grill into a wood burner and use that over gas. I keep a box of kindling, medium pieces and split pieces in the shed. I gather yard debris and use pruning shears or a saw to cut them into the right size pieces, for me that is about 6” to 8” long. Everything is useful, the branch ends are great kindling, then stack on some pencil size then the 1” ‘ers or split pieces and fire it off. I’m single so only need a small fire to cook whatever I need to.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Woody said:


> for me that is about 6" to 8" long. Everything is useful, the branch ends are great kindling, then stack on some pencil size then the 1" 'ers or split pieces and fire it off.


You need a BBQ pit with the firebox off to the side. The heat is not directly under the meat itself, and all those small wood scraps work just fine when the fire (which can get too hot) is off to the side.

This is like, a Texas necessity!! :


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

I guess I should retract the (boring) in my title cause this is actually turning out to be pretty interesting IMO. Thanks everyone


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

rf197 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on stockpiling commercially available charcoal..ie Kingsford or equivalent? Does charcoal loose its effectiveness over time? If there is no lighter fluid available is there something else that could be used in its place? What say you:dunno:


Charcoal is mostly carbon. It will last forever. I have no plans to store it but it's a lot safer to store than propane. A propane tank can leak and it will go off like a bomb if you store it indoors. On the other hand, you can cook with propane indoors. After the collapse there's no way I'm cooking outside with charcoal. I plan to cook indoors on a Coleman camp stove and after that, on a kerosene cooking stove.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BillS said:


> A propane tank can leak and it will go off like a bomb if you store it indoors.


HIGHLY unlikely.

If it gets hot enough in your house to build enough pressure to pop the relief valve (no bomb explosion, Bill) then your house is already on fire anyway.

People all over the world keep propane tanks in their house. It is how they cook their meals, 365 days a year.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Sparky_D said:


> I only use hardwood lump coal. It is much friendlier to long term storage than briquettes.
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Royal-Oak-All-Natural-Hardwood-Lump-Charcoal/19546016
> 
> ...


This is my favorite coal to use.


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

I was just in Wal-Mart earlier and forgot to look.


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## rawhide2971 (Apr 19, 2013)

I stock pile charcoal both lump and the Kingsford charcoal. Space is not an issue for me. I have a XL Big Green Egg and can cook anything in it that you can cook in a kitchen oven. I bake bread, pizza and do the best Boston butt in the area. I use a VERY small amount of charcoal per cook. LUMP is very cost efficient when used with an EGG or BGE as we EggHeads call them. I have a Webber for everyday quick burgers and such. I have a charcoal chimney that a piece of newspaper or other paper stuffed up the back end will get the coals going faster than a cat can lick its butt. I also use an electric starter I never use the hated charcoal liquid starter. In a pinch I can use wood and I can make my own charcoal if necessary...it’s not that hard, just time consuming and in a real pinch I can use hard wood, just have to watch it closely. Thing is that charcoal is smoky so if you’re cooking in a SHTF situation the smell and smoke is going to give your situation and position away. Other than that I would rather have the charcoal in the basement than the propane....which I do have for the fish cookers. I feel that you should have a nice mix of fuels. I have propane, I have a butane single burner and of course alcohol. I also have a old Coleman camp stove that uses the camp stove fuel and have several gallons of it on hand. Once of the nice things about the propane I have on hand is I have an adapter that I can use to fill the small bottles for one of my camp stoves that use the small bottle propane cans. Any way I don’t believe in putting all my eggs so to speak in one basket. Diversify.


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

You might check with your insurance agent before storing anything more than a bag of charcoal - esp if it might get damp.

The actual risk associated with wet charcoal is hard to quantify. Many home safety guides and public service brochures warn of the danger of storing charcoal while wet, as do some professional guides, such as the National Fire Protection Association handbook. Even the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations warns that:

Special care shall also be taken in the loading of any motor vehicle with Class 4 (flammable solid) or Class 5 (oxidizing) materials, which are likely to become more hazardous to transport by wetting, to keep them from being wetted during the loading process and to keep them dry during transit. Examples of such dangerous materials are charcoal screenings, ground, crushed, or pulverized charcoal, and lump charcoal. 


Your insurance agent should know this - according to one technical paper from the 7th International Symposium on Fire Safety Science:

"The data show that the largest commercially-available bag of charcoal briquets, 9 kg (20 lb.), cannot self ignite at an ambient temperature below 394 K (121 C or 250 F). All tested variations: size, different formulations, addition of water or dry wood, aging, and different bag configurations, raised this critical temperature even higher. At ambient temperatures (approximately 25 C ) these data show a bag of charcoal briquets would have to exceed the volume of a typical house to self ignite."

So while the fire 'professionals' don't care much for charcoal, it is likely less a danger than many have been told.

I keep a bag or two for use with a Hibachi, but normally cook with propane. Over the years we've picked up a few 20lb cylinders and so can cook, indoors, for at least 90 days at our normal activity levels.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Any way I don’t believe in putting all my eggs so to speak in one basket. Diversify. 

Rawhide, I'm like you, I have propane, wood, charcoal, Coleman gas, for lights, heat, cooking. I have matches, flint, lighters, flairs, even a stun gun will get a fire started. Lights, have lots of LED types, hand crank types, candles, fuel lanterns, glo sticks, and I keep LOTS of batteries in stock, and a solar batt charger. If you get good deals especially yard sales you can't go wrong.


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## rawhide2971 (Apr 19, 2013)

Ditto And I dont think I want any Insurence agent getting any ideas about what I have in my basement...to many snoops already lol


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

I have a variety of propane (1000 gal, 100 lb, 20lb, and the small camping ones), wood, coleman fuel, kerosene, and charcoal.
I like charcoal grilling taste, but I also use it with my dutch oven. The directions with the dutch oven is pretty accurate on the internal temp if it says "put 13 coals on top and 15 coals under to reach 350 degrees" It's pretty close to that. That is the main reason I decided to save charcoal with my preps. It's the only oven I will have until I get off my butt and make a solar oven.

You should definitely look into a chimney starter. They are awesome, 15 minutes and 4 lbs of coals are hot and ready. I never use lighter fluid.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

If you lived in the semi-sticks like us, you could make your own charcoal.
Uncle Fred's apple coal was particularly good this spring.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

jeff47041 said:


> That is the main reason I decided to save charcoal with my preps.


You don't *need* "briquettes"... people used hot coals from wood to cook in dutch ovens long before bagged consumer charcoal existed!! It's the same concept. My cast iron dutch oven hasn't seen a "briquette" its whole life.


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

LincTex said:


> You don't *need* "briquettes"... people used hot coals from wood to cook in dutch ovens long before bagged consumer charcoal existed!! It's the same concept. My cast iron dutch oven hasn't seen a "briquette" its whole life.


A few years ago, when we were building a house for someone, he told us not to bring lunch tomorrow. He made lunch for us in his dutch oven using hot coals from a fire he built earlier.
I know it will work great, I just think I want charcoal stored, dry, and ready to use when needed. Just handy like any other preps.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I have both propane and charcoal, along with my regulay kitchen stove to cook with. I keep a lot of charcoal because I grill almost daily and I like the flavor better than propane cooking. I'm not sure if propane is cheaper either. I can get 5 20 lb bags of charcoal for the price of a 20 lb propane fillup and the charcoal seems to last a bit longer. I also saw the ceramic egg! Awesome and I'm crazy jealous but 600 bucks for a grill is too rich for my blood. Maybe I can find one at a yard sale when some angry ex wife is dumping stuff cheap! But I do buy lots and lots of charcoal when its on sale, usually 5 to 6 bucks per 20 lb bag and I store vit in my garage so now its nice to know it won't blow up till 250 degrees!!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mojo4 said:


> I can get 5 20 lb bags of charcoal for the price of a 20 lb propane fill-up ...usually 5 to 6 bucks per 20 lb bag


I fill my own 20lb bottles from a larger tank for about $12 each, and that's 20 lbs... not 15 or 17 like the re-fillers are doing now-a-days. I really haven't measured, but It seems like I can cook a lot more food with 20lbs of propane ($12) than I can with $12 worth of charcoal. My time can often be precious, so propane can save a lot of time.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Pure lump wood charcoal can have about 13000 btu/pound that is pretty good considering propane is 15000btu/pound and coal maxes out in the same range(though often less).
The price/lb is going to vary a lot from place to place. Also the efficiency of the cooking appliance would have to be figured in as well, my guess is that they would be pretty similar, more enclosed would use less heat. Obviously gas is easier to use.

Of course you could build a gasifier to make charcoal and wood gas as well, then you could use the charcoal for filtering your ethanol oh, and I suppose you could use it for water too


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

LincTex said:


> I fill my own 20lb bottles from a larger tank for about $12 each, and that's 20 lbs... not 15 or 17 like the re-fillers are doing now-a-days. I really haven't measured, but It seems like I can cook a lot more food with 20lbs of propane ($12) than I can with $12 worth of charcoal. My time can often be precious, so propane can save a lot of time.


That's a great deal! Apparently you save a bunch buying bulk prpane too. Unless you are related to Hank Hill. He sells propane and propane accessories! I actually pay double for my propane but that's the going rate for the 20 lb refills.


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## RUN1251 (Mar 15, 2012)

Be very careful filling 20 gallon tanks. The reason a 20 gal tank is only filled with 16 gallons is to allow the liquid propane to expand or contract with environmental temperature changes. We have a 500 gallon tank for our outdoor kitchen, fire pit and spa. I asked two different suppliers if I could fill a 20 gallon tank from it and both told me "no, it doesn't have the proper pressure gauge". We are about to change out my kitchen range and house heater to propane. When we do that, we are adding another 1000 gallon tank. The supplier said he would rig the new tank to safely fill a 20 gallon I'm looking forward to that. 
Also, be careful digging in the yard with propane lines. I forgot about a side line and cut it planting a fruit tree. All the propane bled out of the tank. It became a very expensive tree!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

RUN1251 said:


> Be very careful filling 20 gallon tanks. The reason a 20 gal tank is only filled with 16 gallons is to allow the liquid propane to expand or contract with environmental temperature changes.


That is entirely NOT true, and is a popular misconception. A 20lb bottle filled right to the top actually holds about 25-26 pounds of propane. A 20lb bottle filled to the 20lb limit is the actual safe rated capacity for a 20lb bottle. Same for all other bottle sizes... The "pound rating" (20, 40, 100 etc) is the net amount of propane that container will SAFELY HOLD.



RUN1251 said:


> I asked two different suppliers if I could fill a 20 gallon tank from it and both told me "no, it doesn't have the proper pressure gauge". !


Those guys are dolts. 
If you know what Reid Vapor Pressure is ("RVP") then you will understand that at the same temperature and chemical make-up (% butane in the mix vs. % propane) then bottle pressure will be EQUAL over all sizes of tanks, (with any liquid present) which is somewhere around 160 psi on a "standard day" (std. temp and pressure). That is why a pressure gauge on a propane tank is 100% worthless to determine how much propane is in a tank, since it will read the same exact pressure at *all times* until the liquid is all depleted and the vapor starts to run out as well.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OK, update - I haven't bought charcoal in a few years (the only time I use it is when grilling at the lake, so it lasts awhile) so I looked at prices at my friendly neighborhood H-E-B grocery in Corsicana,TX. They don't do 10 and 20 lb bags, they are like 8.33lbs and 15.78lbs or something weird like that. 

Anyways, the "8lb" bags are $5.88 (about 6 bucks) and the "15.9lb" bags are a hair under $12, like $11 and change. Pretty shocking. 

In comparison, I bought two huge foamtrays of chicken legs at $1.19/lb, almost 14 pounds worth of plump juicy legs (about 24 or so, 12/pk) and grilled 'em all up after marinading them for almost 24 hours (salivating yet?). It took a couple hours to grill all of them slowly (one burner side only, on "low") on the propane grill and I didn't even use a pound of propane. I weighed it on a bathroom scale; it was 27.4 when I started and 26.8 when I was done. That was some pretty cheap cookin'.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

RUN1251 said:


> I asked two different suppliers if I could fill a 20 gallon tank from it and both told me "no, it doesn't have the proper pressure gauge". .... The supplier said he would rig the new tank to safely fill a 20 gallon.


Actually, your large residential tank most likely does not have a liquid dip tube, it is not added unless it is requested (since 99.9% of residential users are using vapor only), and and can only be added once the tank is empty. LongRider had a nice write-up on here about a year ago about the details of adding a diptube, valve and filler hose to his large tanks.

The OPD valve on all newer 20lb tanks should (if it is working like it should) stop the filling process once the float in the tank rises to where it shuts off.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mojo4 said:


> That's a great deal! Apparently you save a bunch buying bulk propane too.


I wish it was more... I only have a 200 gallon tank. The local propane dealers don't offer a decent discount until you get over 300 gallons on one stop. That sure is convenient for them... almost NO ONE around here has 500 gallon tanks. They are all in the 150-250 range. Maybe, If I get some more 100lb tanks I might make the minimum, but they are only 22.5 gallons each so I would need several more. It would be cheaper to find another 150-200 gallon tank!

I guess there is always a "catch"...


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I understand what you mean, when we bought this house as a repo the old oil burning furnace had been stripped as the plumbing and a lot of the electrical. We replaced the oil burner with a propane one and also the kitchen stove and corner living gas fireplace. They seem to have a formula of square footage, BTU's ect. to figure tank size. They told us we could get by with two 100 gal tanks. That allows them in the winter to make a monthly fill up and with the prices of fuel going by supply and demand always goes up during winter uses, this way when they buy in bulk they make out like big time. I told them that they provide me a 1000 gal. tank or I would not buy their furnace and installation and future gas purchase. I have a 1000 gal. tank. When I lived in the Colorado mountains, I bought a used 500 gal. tank and had the pick of the two propane companies.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> When I lived in the Colorado mountains, I bought a used 500 gal. tank and had the pick of the two propane companies.


We have a couple, But I won't deal with FerrellGas, they only fill tanks leased out by them.

I am in "cahoots" with an RV park about 10 minutes away that buys a lot of propane (since they also fill RV tanks), and I always schedule fill-ups so the truck drives out to both our places on the same day to save delivery charges (only a small amount of savings, but it's better than nothing).


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

LincTex said:


> We have a couple, But I won't deal with FerrellGas, they only fill tanks leased out by them.
> 
> I am in "cahoots" with an RV park about 10 minutes away that buys a lot of propane (since they also fill RV tanks), and I always schedule fill-ups so the truck drives out to both our places on the same day to save delivery charges (only a small amount of savings, but it's better than nothing).


That's good...You gotta do what you gotta do to beat the man..  A few bucks saved is better than a few bucks wasted


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

We are considering building a charcoal burner thingy. The husband wants to learn how to make charcoal and I want the wood vinegar. We do have a 250 gallon propane tank for the house. It only runs our stove, but we have additional hookups for other appliances. We pay a yearly fee of about $50 and haven't had to refill it yet.


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## Rain23 (Jul 18, 2011)

We live in the PNW where it rains 6 months of the year. Opened charcoal bags, thrown bag end rolled up into a $6 Rubbermaid with snap lid on an uncovered patio soak up some damp. We need to use a chimney with crumpled paper to light the bricks (plain, not the kind with starter) then they work fine. Oldest I can vouch for has been stored like this for about 3 years. Lighters evaporate, make sure you have matches. I can't for the life of me start a real charcoal fire with the sparker unless I do a real pain in the rumpus tinder-shredding session in the charcoal chimney.

Boring is _not_ the word that will be thrown around if you end up eating cold, congealed canned soup because you researched ultimate perfect alternative cooking methods but due to time/money/availability never got one set up. My husband laughed when I threw the charcoal in the Rubbermaid, but that is what I can afford, is easily available and we have storage space for. IMHO, the prep you actually have trumps any other potential method


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Toffee said:


> We do have a 250 gallon propane tank for the house. We pay a yearly fee of about $50 and haven't had to refill it yet.


It sounds like you should look around for a good used propane powered generator!


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

LincTex said:


> It sounds like you should look around for a good used propane powered generator!


We have discussed it, but just haven't come to a real consensus on size. None of my husband's family, except his parents have one, so we would be hosting a couple of family's if we did get a big one, but the cost is really what is keeping us from pulling the trigger, so to speak.


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## spregan (Aug 6, 2011)

We live in coal country, but it makes the steaks taste like crap


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Toffee said:


> We have discussed it, but just haven't come to a real consensus on size. ... the cost is really what is keeping us from pulling the trigger, so to speak.


You have to be actively looking. 
A guy on the smokestak website found a propane-powered Kohler 5KW generator (with a K-series engine!!!) for a measly $100, it was like new! That is at the extreme end of "good deals", though.

However - you will not FIND a good deal until you start LOOKING for a good deal!!

As far as size goes, you can get them large enough to power the entire house with everything turned on, but I would never suggest one that large to anyone. 5KW and smaller will do over 90% of what you want to do.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

spregan said:


> We live in coal country, but it makes the steaks taste like crap


BLEECCCHHHH! Over lignite coal? 
May as well cook the steaks over burning car tires, LOL!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Toffee said:


> except his parents have one, so we would be hosting a couple of family's if we did get a big one,


Big = comfort (A/C, clothes dryer, etc.)
Smaller = necessities (fridge, freezer, fans for air circulation)

The only exception is well pump. A house that does just fine with a 2000 watt generator will not have enough power to run the well pump. The caveat is, a generator that is large enough to run the well pump also burns a ton of fuel. It's better to buy another one (a larger used one) that gets run only when the well is needed.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

rf197 said:


> What are everyone's thoughts on stockpiling commercially available charcoal..ie Kingsford or equivalent? Does charcoal loose its effectiveness over time? If there is no lighter fluid available is there something else that could be used in its place? What say you:dunno:


 it's too late now, but every spring, April, first part of May. Lowes have two 20 pound bags of charcoal for $9.95 then it goes back to the regular price of 2 for 19.95.. 
I fill the lighter fluid bottles with kero or just use a small can with kero in it. I use about 10 briquette and when they turn gray and the kero is smell gone, I toss on a piece of oak, maple or any hard wood as I like most things smoked.


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

lotsoflead said:


> it's too late now, but every spring, April, first part of May. Lowes have two 20 pound bags of charcoal for $9.95 then it goes back to the regular price of 2 for 19.95..
> I fill the lighter fluid bottles with kero or just use a small can with kero in it. I use about 10 briquette and when they turn gray and the kero is smell gone, I toss on a piece of oak, maple or any hard wood as I like most things smoked.


Wow thanks for the tip about Lowe's


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Natural charcol*

A few months ago I trim my mango trees, which I still have a large pile of trimmings in my back yard, anyway I tested the wood with a bbq to see of any after taste, none, I extinguish the fire with water and after many rainy days the charcoal left in the bbq still lights up. I will be testing the charcoal with magnesium shavings and see what I get, but this natural charcoal is very light and easy to store .I was born making wood charcoal in my family farm we used it, sold it ,the food cooks slow in a clay pot, best ever but like stated here, propane is the way to go in an emergency, it will not spoil is safe and in a camping stove will served its purpose well, my 100 lbs. tank will last about 6 months with my stove.


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