# Bouncy Bus,Air Shocks Help?



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

We already put Monroe Heavy Duty shocks on the bus and it did'nt help,guess the leaf springs over ride it.:dunno:

Now thinking of air shocks,but they are expensive so don't want to waste money like we did on the heavy duty shocks.

Some interstates it bounces on certain types of pavemenmt,espeically the ones with the divided slabs.Also soem overpasses and bridges will really give you a bucking ride.

Other wise it runs great,except still need to fix the calipers on the back,oil on both tires.And last time trip they smoked and burning smell,so we had to wait till they cooled off,they no problem going home.

Its fixed up really nice now,finally like we like it,good interior,sterio system,cabinets and toilet holding tank,good paint job inside and out.New tires'$1800'worth.King poins,bushing redone 15,000 milies ago when we first got it.

It has those spoke rims,so one guy said we'll never get the bounce out of because of tires,do you agree with this?
1991 international thomas body 7.3 deisel 24ft.short bus.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

If it's bouncing around, the tires may be out of balance. The other thing to check is the alignment. You might also want to check the tires for uneven wear (which indicates alignment issues), a bubble on a tire (which must then be replaced), and make sure you have the same size tires on each axle. The thread type (like for instance mud grips) on each axle should also match. Mud grip type tires tend to be louder and rougher than regular tires.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Marcus said:


> If it's bouncing around, the tires may be out of balance. The other thing to check is the alignment. You might also want to check the tires for uneven wear (which indicates alignment issues), a bubble on a tire (which must then be replaced), and make sure you have the same size tires on each axle. The thread type (like for instance mud grips) on each axle should also match. Mud grip type tires tend to be louder and rougher than regular tires.


Thanks Marcus but its none of this.Its the leaf springs or just the bus is bouncy.Maybe a little bit of all of it.Spoke rims,leaf springs,who knows what else.:dunno:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Are the leaf springs worn out and where are you at for weight compared to your gvwr? What pressure are your tires running at?
I would probably recommend adjustable air bags (mount on top of springs) but they will not be cheap


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## k10macosta (Nov 6, 2012)

Get heavier duty auxiliary Leaf springs. And less heavy duty main leaf springs or remove leaves. The main springs could flex more for daily driving but if a load was put on it the auxiliary springs would take some of the weight to keep it safe and able to carry heavy weights.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I have noticed with busses and straight trucks especially the Millitary 5 ton drop sides that when it is lightly or not loaded it tends to make for a bumpier/bouncier ride. Could it be that you are just too frugal with your loadout? Maybe getting non standard shocks to match your new lighter interior like I"m sure you removed most of the seats and stuff so maybe you are just too light for the regular rated shocks? Just a suggestion based on a little personal experience I'm a do it myselfer but not what anyone would call a real mechanic. Thinkoing the air shocks may be the solution sin ce those can be aired up to match the load you have on it. Have you looked around jun yards and stuff maybe find some air ride gear you could adapt over? Just shootin in the dark hope it helps.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Yeah, it could be either way from what is described, springs too weak or not enough weight to smooth out the ride. 
If it is an abrupt kind of bump then it might help to add some weight or let some air out of the tires, tire shops often set them to max because they don't know how much weight you will carry.
If it is a slower kind of fluid bounce then your springs may be worn out or overloaded, if that is the case what k10macosta or jsriley5 said should work. Instead of the auxiliary springs(overloads) or the air shocks though, I would personally recommend looking into the air bags that go on top of your springs, these are easy to adjust for the amount of load you have, can even be adjusted to level the vehicle.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Thanks everyone,my puter was not working good so I could'nt post back.Hope its better now.

Theres one place on I-75 that is like riding a fake bull on a 4 for about 60 miles or more.Otherwise the trips are ok except for bridges.

I can't see new leaf springs,its a 1991 and much as I like to pay a hard workign man to fix them,thats way past our budget.We did put some nice captain chairs in it,seemd to bump more with those,but they are comfey when not on bad roads.Plus they turn all the way around and make good beds.

When we take it to fix the calipers and make sure all good with it after we pay for that then ask about it.

At a RV used parts store they had some air shocks for $110 each.I can't see puttign $500 into shocks,so guess I ;ll just bounce.Or put in a waterbed,haha.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

First thing to do is check to make sure that the dayton (spoke) rims are on straight, and run true to each other, they can produce a thumping bounce if they are misaligned, and the clown who told you daytons always bounce is about as knowledge able as the lugs that hold the wheels on. 

I tryed to find a good video on u tube, but there isnt much that shows the proceedure for truing up dayton wheels. 

basicly you jack the wheel set up so that it can rotate freely and put a spray can or something beside the outside tire, then rotate it, watch the clearance between the can and tire as you turn it, you want the wobble to be under 1/4 inch. if it is more than that the lug nuts need to be loostened and the wheel moved straighter, first mark the spot where the tire gets closest to the spray can, leave the nut closest to the can tight , and loosten the nut furthest from the mark first, back it off a full turn , then hit the lug with a hammer to free it up, now do the same with the 2 nuts and lugs on either side of the one you just loostened. some time you get lucky and it goes straight the first adjustment, some times it take multiple attemps to get the wheels straight. worst case sometimes the wheel get bent from being mounted crooked and need to be replaced. 


I seriously doubt that the addition of more suspension components will stop the bounce, school buss suspension is designed for a wide range of loadsand shouldn't need a bunch of extra $$$$ spent on accessories to control the ride.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

We had it for about 7 yr.s.Took 6 to get it to where it is today.We did it one piece at a time[reminds me of a song].


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Guys read the post as to the initiation of the bouncing. It is a certain stretch of road and where roads meet bridges. That starts the bouncing otherwise it seems to be fine. I would not put any more money into that issue. When you hit bumps it will bounce. All the shocks are designed to do is to stop the bouncing so that it does not bounce like a low rider in LA. Shocks don't stop the bounce they smooth it out.

I would say that the back of the bus is what is bouncing and the load is too light.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> First thing to do is check to make sure that the dayton (spoke) rims are on straight, and run true to each other, they can produce a thumping bounce if they are misaligned, and the clown who told you daytons always bounce is about as knowledge able as the lugs that hold the wheels on.
> 
> I tryed to find a good video on u tube, but there isnt much that shows the proceedure for truing up dayton wheels.
> 
> ...


The man that did the tires trued em for quite awhile[hubby watched] he got them close as you can get.

I guess I'll just learn to enjoy the ride :2thumb:.

Its a bus,its an old bus at that,but I really like shorty and hope to get a couple more trips out it.

Did I tell yall I got a standing ovation at the beach for gettign in and out?A bunch of people were sittign at outside bar,saw me headign to the sand,and all looked and said NOOOOO.Shorty made it down the beach and back no problem.I did wash the sand off the tires and underbody.:wave:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

If the wheels aren't aligned it will normally ride rough all the time, not just when you hit a bump or on certain stretches of road. Hard to say exactly without seeing it but I hope you have good luck and at least it is drivable, sounds like a nice unit.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

cnsper said:


> Guys read the post as to the initiation of the bouncing. It is a certain stretch of road and where roads meet bridges. That starts the bouncing otherwise it seems to be fine. I would not put any more money into that issue. When you hit bumps it will bounce. All the shocks are designed to do is to stop the bouncing so that it does not bounce like a low rider in LA. Shocks don't stop the bounce they smooth it out.
> 
> I would say that the back of the bus is what is bouncing and the load is too light.


Yep the back really does bounce.I was laying down when hubby went over a bridge and it knocked me to the ceiling and almost broke my shoulder on the ceiling.That was one hell of a bounce all right.:gaah: No more 'resting in motion'.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It should not bounce that much. 
Won't cost anything to let some air out of the tires if you are way under gvwr and it can make a world of difference.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> If the wheels aren't aligned it will normally ride rough all the time, not just when you hit a bump or on certain stretches of road. Hard to say exactly without seeing it but I hope you have good luck and at least it is drivable, sounds like a nice unit.


It is nice,we'r just old now and get bouncing sickness easier than before.Everytime I take that stretch on 1 75 I think of exiting till we pass those blocks some idiot engineer designed.I feel soory for truckers who have that route.

Its saves on motels,plus we sleep in our own bed and use our own toilet.Cook our own food and we can stand up while we ride.

I do slow down over bridges now if nobody is behind us and kinda steer right or left of them to lighten it when possible.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> It should not bounce that much.
> Won't cost anything to let some air out of the tires if you are way under gvwr and it can make a world of difference.


Thanks we do run tires low as possible.And while standing we use caution like on a boat in bad weather,sort of walk with knees bent to keep balance and lesson shock'or lACK OF'HAHA.caps .


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Mount a hammock to the ceiling with bungee cords  Or Load a bunch of your preps in there indulge in a larger water reservoir and don't worry about mounting it too far forward. I"m betting a thousand pounds of preps will make a big difference in the ride. But I could be wrong I haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Bubble wrap and foam


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

jsriley5 said:


> Mount a hammock to the ceiling with bungee cords  Or Load a bunch of your preps in there indulge in a larger water reservoir and don't worry about mounting it too far forward. I"m betting a thousand pounds of preps will make a big difference in the ride. But I could be wrong I haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately.


LOL,yep I can just see hubby swinging in that thing,until the monster of all bridges come up!

Those bridges can't be good for any vehicle,I don't remember them being so rough even in our van they are bad ,it rides very smooth.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> Bubble wrap and foam


LOL,adds a new meaning to 'bouncing off the walls' .

Our preppy middle aged daughter went to beach with us,she rode in the bus with me and a few teen aged grandkids.

She kept rolling her eyes.I ask her if she wanted to drive,reluctently she agreed,she was all smiles after awhile of driving ol shorty.:2thumb: She kept giggling.


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

My one ton trucks all do the same thing, until I am pulling a loaded trailer or have 1000# in the box. I'm trying to say add some weight ( water tank, or armor plating) or lighten suspension. My vote is add 200 gal water tank and 3/8" steel to strategic locations.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Some of the old school bus drivers used to either spray oil on the spring packs or wrap them in sacks soaked in oil. now if you use oil it will be a environmental nightmare, but you could try used cooking oil to see if the springs calm down. but bouncing is usually caused by too light of springs allowing too easy of travel that the shocks cant overcome. The other thing you might want to check is shock temperature after a bouncing episode, once the shock oil gets to a certain temperature the shock becomes prety much useless. , it should also help locate the point of bounce. 
Have the u joints been greased lately , to the point that fresh grease comes out each cup.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Ireight said:


> My one ton trucks all do the same thing, until I am pulling a loaded trailer or have 1000# in the box. I'm trying to say add some weight ( water tank, or armor plating) or lighten suspension. My vote is add 200 gal water tank and 3/8" steel to strategic locations.


We have a 60 gal. grey water holding tank in back,plus some tools and try to pack as much back there as possible.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> Some of the old school bus drivers used to either spray oil on the spring packs or wrap them in sacks soaked in oil. now if you use oil it will be a environmental nightmare, but you could try used cooking oil to see if the springs calm down. but bouncing is usually caused by too light of springs allowing too easy of travel that the shocks cant overcome. The other thing you might want to check is shock temperature after a bouncing episode, once the shock oil gets to a certain temperature the shock becomes prety much useless. , it should also help locate the point of bounce.
> Have the u joints been greased lately , to the point that fresh grease comes out each cup.


U joints changed and good,kept up and greased.But hubby said he may try this oil thing.

We were also told once that we could take a few leafs out of the leaf springs to calm them down, but after checking it out they are a bit trickie to disassemble and are locked together with pegs every so often that would have to be grinded off to put back together.They are quite stout and are whats causing the bounce.The heavy duty shocks dont have a chance bring it out the bounce.I think the air cushion absorbers that they use on campers and tractor trailors that goes between the shakle and leaf spring may do the trick. But they are expensive.

Hubby wrote above paragraph.He seldom writes or uses my laptop but he got tired of relaying,


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I hate to modify to a permanent reduced load if you are intending to use the vehicle as a bug out vehicle and may load it down at some point. I like the air ride or air shocks idea best as they are somewhat adjustable. Just have some spare bags for the air ride as they can blow out. I really like the armor plate. nice flat interior walls would make it easy to mount some 1/4 inch Ar 500 plate and would add a reasonable amount of weight and significant safety in a world turned upside down. Can never have too much water so increased water storage is a good way to add a little wieght. Of course adding weight will at some point start reducing mileage will be a tradeoff for comfort and supplies for fuel economy. If there is space underneath and Id think there would be some aux tanks for fuel would also add "good weight" increase your range and if you rotate which tank you feed the beaast from would be easy to rotate out. Probably get tanks from a junyard for practically nothing along with the mountng straps just have to weld in some hangers in the accessible spots and plumb them in with switching valves or if you want to make it more simple you could just plumb them all together so they gravity feed the tank you draw from just makes the rotation more inefficient. I'[m a pack rat so adding weight would be easy for me.

OH and I"d also be careful about letting too much air out of tires to get a smoother ride. Making them softer will one reduce fuel economy but more importantly can cause the tires to run significantly hotter and lead to side wall failures. so take care with reducing more than 5 or ten lbs. Adding extra spares though is another way to add some extra wieght  what call good weight


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

JS,good infor from all of you.

Hubby wanted to put a larger fuel tank,but I was afraid to let him.He has his guitars and instruments,the bus is mine,haha,ours of course.Our fuel tank is small maybe 38 to 30 gal tops.He found a fuel tank for $100 in junk yard.

I can load more water for sure.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Adding water weight from your preps is a cheap way to at least test the add weight solution. only cost you labor carrying them out and maybe back in. let us know how it goes I'm dying to know the solution that works.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Air shocks are not a good idea, glad you've discarded it. They put load-bearing stress on parts not meant for it. Ever seen a shock bracket sheared and dragging behind? ;-). Although I would think Shorty has some beefy shock mounts.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Yep, a few basics here: 

Although I usually don't like the British names for parts, like Bonnet and Boot instead of Hood and Trunk, or Gudgeon pin instead of Wrist pin, they are correct about what we call shock absorbers. They call them Dampers. That is literally true. If there is a "shock absorber" in the system, it's the spring. 

Whenever you increase spring rate (like adding a leaf or installing booster springs) you will need to increase damping. Yep, stiffer springs need stiffer shocks. I have a P71 Crown Victoria, that's the police version; it has stiffer springs than other versions and it definitely requires different shocks. 

The ratio of damping on extension versus compression of your shocks will affect ride, too. Have you ever held an ordinary shock and noticed it's easier to compress than to extend? For a car to have a nice ride, the shocks might be valved 70/30 Extension/Compression. However a racing shock might be valved 50/50 and a front shock on a dragster might be valved 10/90 so it can extend very easily. The racing shock will not give you a good ride, but it will help the car handle on the track. 

When you wish to increase load capacity, think about this: The mounts for your "Dampers" are not designed to carry weight. Some cars tolerate air shocks, but I have also seen the broken mounts from air shocks and the trunk floor torn out of nice 1955 Chevy by the old Monroe Load Leveler spring booster shocks. 

If you have a vehicle with coil springs, Air Lift and similar products can safely increase effective spring rates. They are just air bags that go inside the coil. On leaf spring vehicles, you can use a version that includes a coil spring wrapped around the air bag and fits between axle and frame. That bag of compressed air becomes a helper spring for the system. Your spring attachment points are designed to carry load. 

It's true that some well designed vehicles, back in the days when cars and trucks requred regular maintenance but were designed to be maintained, did wrap leaf springs in fabric to hold grease in the springs. Not a bad idea. But while lubricating the springs to move more freely and to protect them is a good idea, it will not reduce "bouncing." Take heart, coils are worse. Have you ever seen a coil spring car that had completely lost the shocks? I recall when the rear shocks on Dad's 1953 Buick tore off in very cold weather. That car could come to a stop sign and sit there bouncing for a minute. 

I suspect the bouncing described is a product of the vehicle wheelbase and the distance between the bumps or pavement undulations. A change in speed might help, better damping would help. Even a change in tire pressure, if you have some leeway, might help a bit. Regularly spaced bumps can be a problem, though. Have you even seen a bucket loader moving down the road and "pitching" fore and aft over undulations in the pavement? Its suspension is mostly the air in its big tires. The combination of short wheelbase, huge tires and odd weight distribution makes it vulnerable to pitching on pavement when moving much faster than its normal "working" speed. 

I've always believed in running the very best tires, brakes and shocks that you can afford. I recommend that approach to everyone. There may be no magic answer to the "bouncing" problem, only a few things that can partially alleviate it. Too bad you can't take those bumps at an angle. 

Best of Luck.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If the bounce is spring rate related, shock absorbers from a highway tractor with air ride would probably be able to dampen it, if there is a heavy truck wrecker near you you might be able to get the shocks from the rear of a wrecked tractor for a reasonable price, there should be someting with similar mounting ends , but with a lot more dampening capacity, as mentioned by the above poster.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> If the bounce is spring rate related, shock absorbers from a highway tractor with air ride would probably be able to dampen it, if there is a heavy truck wrecker near you you might be able to get the shocks from the rear of a wrecked tractor for a reasonable price, there should be someting with similar mounting ends , but with a lot more dampening capacity, as mentioned by the above poster.


Thanks Tirediron. I may just live with it,and take short trips only,haha. :kiss:


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Yall are all so helpful,thanks alot.


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