# US Minted Bullion is A Scam



## wallstwench

Guys,

They've already hacked into one of my computers and deleted my research on this just before I was about to send it out. So please forward this on as fast as you can before it's erased and they come knocking at my door.

I tested a US Silver Eagle Bullion coin with nitric acid myself. It's not pure silver like they say. I will work on getting the hard facts out again, but for now please try and tell everyone you know to STOP BUYING US MINT post 1964. They DO NOT contain pure silver or gold like they say they do.

A bullion coin is a coin struck from precious metal and kept as a store of value or an investment, rather than used in day-to-day commerce. Investment coins are generally coins that have been minted after 1800, have a purity of not less than 900 thousandths and is or has been a legal tender in its country of origin.[1] Bullion coins are usually available in gold and silver, with the exception of the Krugerrand and the Swiss Vreneli which are only available in gold. The American Eagle series is available in gold, silver and platinum, and the Canadian Maple Leaf series is available in gold, silver, platinum and also palladium.
Bullion coins are also typically available in various weights. These are usually multiples or fractions of 1 troy ounce, but some bullion coins are produced in very limited quantities in kilograms and even heavier.
Bullion coins sell for a premium over the market price of the metal on the commodities exchanges. This is due to their comparative small size and the costs associated with manufacture, storage and distribution. The margin that is paid varies depending on what type of coin it is, the weight of the coin, and the precious metal. The premium also is affected by prevailing demand. The ISO currency code of gold bullion is XAU. ISO 4217 includes codes not only for currencies, but also for precious metals (gold, silver, palladium and platinum; by definition expressed per one troy ounce, as compared to "1 USD") and certain other entities used in international finance, e.g. Special Drawing Rights.

American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin
American Eagle Silver Bullion Coin Specifications

Mint: United States Mint
Mintmark: 
Finish/Condition: 
Metal Content: 99.9% silver
Gross Weight: 1.0001 Troy oz. - 31.103 g 
Fine Weight: 31.072 g 
Diameter: 40.60 mm
Thickness:2.98 mm
Edge: Reeded
Mintage Limit: Depends on demand
Face Value: $1
Obverse Designer: Adolph A. Weinman
Reverse Engraver: John Mercanti

Bullion coin: a coin with a symbolic face value but trades at a price relative to its intrinsic value.

Buying a US Minted Bullion Coin is like buying a US Treasury. I would rather buy a California Muni Bond after a massive earthquake caused it to break off and sink into the ocean, than I would to finance any more of our Federal Government's Global Ponzi Scheme.

I was taught by a financial mentor to "Look under the hood at an investment." Well I have looked under the hood and this is atrocious. It's shameful, despicable, and a total disgrace and I'm not taking any more. NOT ANOTHER EFING SCAM YOU DIRTBAGS!!! You'll have to kill me to shut me up now. Enough is enough.


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## goshengirl

Holy sh**.


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## ZoomZoom

I'm not very familiar with coins and "proofs" so please tell me the difference.

On the .GOV website, they have both the bullion coin and a "proof". Is it that the "proof" coin isn't pure? There's a mint mark of "W" on the back of the coin at the 7-oclock position which denotes it's a proof.


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## tortminder

*Hard data or it's B.S.*

The U.S. mint says the coin is 999 parts silver and 1 part copper, then they say the copper is added to "increase the coin's durability to help resist scratching and marring." Now, this comes from a U.S. mint brochure. My guess is this brochure was written by people who really don't know what they're talking about.

Bullion has been sold both as gross weight and net weight. As an example, scrap gold is often referred to as '18.2 grams of 14k gold' (where the total weight is 18.2 ounces, with 10.6oz of pure gold in there). But Krugerrands are sold as "1 ounce", which is really a piece of 22k gold weighing 1.09 ounces.

With .999 fine material, there is really no distinction between the two. That's because it is not possible to make coins or bars with such a fine weight tolerance. And, .999 fine isn't .999 fine; it could be .9992 or .9995. If they aim to make a coin weigh 1.001 ounce, some will weigh a bit more and some a bit less. The ones weighing a bit less would weigh less than an ounce, which is a Big Problem. If people buy bullion, and don't get 100% of what they paid for, they are going to complain.

So the governments make the coins slightly overweight, enough so that virtually all of the coins they make will be at least 1 ounce (or whatever the stated weight is). So it is not unusual (or a problem) for them to weight slightly more than the stated amount.

And, the U.S. eagle does have copper added, per http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/mint_programs/am_eagles/AMERSILVREAGLE.pdf . It says that copper is added for durability, and it is unclear if that means that it is at least .999 fine with up to .001 copper (e.g. .9999 silver combined with copper to make it .9990 silver, .00009 copper, and .00001 trace elements or so), or whether they take 1 ounce of .999 fine silver and add .001 copper to it (making the resulting stuff .998 or so fine). I would say 1 part in a thousand is an impurity, not an alloy. And how do they know it's copper anyhow, unless they're refining to .9999 and then adding copper?

Whatever the case is, you have made a rather serious claim that needs to be backed up with assay data.:scratch


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## wallstwench

**Retraction*

Let me retract what I said about the US Bullion being a scam. It's not a scam. It's just another instance of clever thieves taking advantage of our naivety. They are in fact exactly what they say they are. Less than one tenth of one percent silver. What's a few decimal points to the US Mint/Treasury/Government/Fed?


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## tortminder

wallstwench said:


> Let me retract what I said about the US Bullion being a scam. It's not a scam. It's just another instance of clever thieves taking advantage of our naivety. They are in fact exactly what they say they are. Less than one tenth of one percent silver. What's a few decimal points to the US Mint/Treasury/Government/Fed?


still waiting for your verification/proof of your allegation. For example, what was the result of your specific gravity test? What was the methodology of your assay? It is very easy to make a naked accusation and stampede the sheep, and I have no doubt that there are many ways that we are being scammed by the USG, but a naked assertion without backup proof or documentation is BS.:nuts:


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## wallstwench

*Attached Photo Proves It!!*

http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/mint_programs/am_eagles/AMERSILVREAGLE.pdf


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## wallstwench

http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/mint_programs/am_eagles/AMERSILVREAGLE.pdf


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## nj_m715

I'm not following you. On the top right side of the page it, under the pic of the coin it says:
total weight 31.103g, silver weight 31.072g, so the .03 grams remainder is copper. That would be 99% silver not .99% silver. Where did the decimal point get moved? Where are you reading 1/10 of 1% slv? thanks


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## DJgang

I am not following either. 

If you are dealing with 1.0 oz of a coin and it states that .999 is silver, that is 99% of the 1.0 oz. 

I have passed your info on to my hubby, he is looking at what you are saying.

Thanks.


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## wallstwench

It says “Silver content= .999 Troy ounce” Note the ****** by where it says 31.072 grams of silver content, the note on the bottom says balance of silver bullion consists of copper” 

I tested these myself and they are NOT 100% silver. Why won’t anyone believe me?


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## MrSfstk8d

OK, think of it like this. It says .999 silver. That particular sentance doesn't say .999 of .999 fine silver, just silver. The silver added to the pot was .999 fine when they dropped it in. The rest was "other".

It's like getting a mixed drink. I can have a Whiskey tonic. It's only 1 oz. (liquid, not Troy) whiskey, but the balance of the tumbler is full of ice and water. But it's still a whiskey drink. Make sense?


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## CulexPipiens

wallstwench said:


> I tested these myself and they are NOT 100% silver. Why won't anyone believe me?


No one doubts they aren't 100%... the sheet even says they are not. What it does say is that there are 1000 "units" in the troy ounce and that 999 of those units are silver. That makes it 99.9% silver. That's pretty darn close to 100%.

You would have to provide your test methodology and have it independently verified to show otherwise.


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## Concretin

31.103 grams is a troy ounce. .999 fine or 0.999 purity is a standard in the industry. Sterling silver, by contrast, is .925 fine or 0.925 purity if you prefer.
The same is true for gold. By any standard method, you just can't make it any more pure; there will always be traces of something. That's just the chemistry of it.


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## wallstwench

It actually doesn't matter what they post it says, what they claim or what they want us to believe. They are completely covered to make these coins of whatever they please thanks to the "Liberty Coin Act"
Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Commemorative Coin Act - Wikisource

SEC. 201. SHORT TITLE.
This title may be cited as the "Liberty Coin Act".
[edit]SEC. 202. MINTING OF SILVER COINS.
Section 5112 of title 31, United States Code, is amended by striking out subsections (e) and (f) and inserting in lieu thereof the following new subsections:
``(e) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary shall mint and issue, *in quantities sufficient to meet public demand,* coins which-
``(1) are 40.6 millimeters in diameter and weigh 31.103 grams;
``(2) contain .999 fine silver;
``(3) have a design-
``(A) symbolic of Liberty on the obverse side; and
``(B) of an eagle on the reverse side;
``(4) have inscriptions of the year of minting or issuance, and the words 'Liberty', 'In God We Trust', 'United States of America', '1 Oz. Fine Silver', 'E Pluribus Unum', and 'One Dollar'; and
``(5) have reeded edges.
``(f) The Secretary shall sell the coins minted under subsection (e) to the public at a price equal to the market value of the bullion at the time of sale, plus the cost of minting, marketing, and distributing such coins (including labor, materials, dyes [sic], use of machinery, and overhead expenses).
``(g) For purposes of section 5132(a)(1) of this title, all coins minted under subsection (e) of this section shall be considered to be numismatic items.
``(h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender as provided in section 5103 of title 31, United States Code.´´

Did you know these are the only coins IN THE WORLD backed the government? What does that even mean?

It means that they can mint coins as a promissory note in order to keep up with demand, in whatever composition they so desire, as long as they will make it good as some point.

These coins are also not sold to the public directly. Why? Because "Bullion Coins" REPRESENT a portion of said bullion, and is to be stored in an IRS approved Depository.

I did mention a few times, but I will say this again, I tested these myself. My fingers are still stained purple and it's been 4 days.

Did I also mention that I am putting myself and family at risk by trying to get this information out to the public? When I woke up this morning, all my software and all of my files on TWO DIFFERENT COMPUTERS, were magically GONE.

I should probably stop trying to convince everyone. Especially if I'm going to have to fight to make people listen, when my own safety is probably in jeopardy.


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## drhwest

I see no proof to the fact that those coins are anything less than what is stated in your attached PDF. You claimed that the attachment was proof, but it does not substantiate your claim in any way. I can only assume that your at home testing method is as faulty as your logic.


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## BasecampUSA

I've been reading all this stuff about silver coins, Silver Eagles etc. etc. here in this forum without end.

_Ask me if I care..._

I bought $31,070 worth of Silver Eagles on February 1, 2011, and RIGHT NOW what I purchased is worth $44,760 !!!

_I just earned $13,690 in 10 weeks sitting on my butt doing nothing!_

That is _NOT_ to mention the $80,000 in silver bullion I bought in January of 2009 at $10.75/oz -- right now it's up to $40.67/oz -- go figger! (yes it _IS_ worth a quarter million more than I originally paid)

What's all the fuss about? I've seen more dialog in this forum over an ounce of silver here and a pre-65 junk dime there and nit pickin' till the cows come home. And those that seem to make the most noise about it all probably haven't bought more than $100 worth!


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## tortminder

*Is the horse dead yet?*

Giving the O.P. the benefit of the doubt, I think she is sincere in what she says and sincere in wanting to give a "heads up". but I believe that she is on an unproductive tangent. It's a bit like debating what the definition of the word "is" is.

I cannot disagree with the notion that the "gummint" is less than trustworthy, nor can I argue that "Uncle Sugar" has lied; does lie and will lie to us in many instances, (all for our own good, of course).

I think that perhaps it is time to lay this thread to rest. The horse is dead and there is nothing to be gained by further flogging it.


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## The_Blob

sounds maybe like the brown from the .001 copper & the bright red from the .999 silver content appeared purple.

Is it possible you might've have contaminated the sample being tested

Also, what was the mol (GMW) of the acid you used?

Making and using gold & silver test solutions (note the *caution* below)

How to Make & Use Test Solutions

Potassium dichromate salts and nitric and hydrochloric acids are needed to mix test solutions. Use a graduate measure for mixing required proportions. In larger cities the potassium dichromate salts and acids are available from chemical supply houses and in smaller cities from local drug stores.

SOLUTIONS: Mark bottles 1, 2, 3 - *DO NOT INTERCHANGE TOPS*

(Bottle 1) BELOW 14K AND BASE METAL

Mix 10 grams potassium dichromate salts with the ¾ oz. nitric acid plus ¼ oz. distilled water.

(Bottle 2) 14K-18K

Mix one part hydrochloric acid to 50 parts nitric acid and 12 parts distilled water.

(Bottle 3) ABOVE 18K

Aqua regia - Mix one part nitric acid to 3 parts hydrochloric acid.

TO TEST

File a notch in test piece, apply a drop of solution #1 - watch for color reaction.

BRASS--Dark brown

COPPER--Brown

GOLD--None

NICKEL--Blue

LEAD--Yellow

TIN--Yellow

SILVER (PURE)--Bright red SILVER (.925)--Dark red

SILVER (.800)--Brown SILVER (.500)--Green

PALLADIUM--None

TO DETERMINE KARAT

File a spot on a test piece and rub it on a test stone to leave a definite mark. Choose a test needle nearest to the test mark color and rub the needle on the stone next to the mark. If the needle mark reacts sooner than that of the test piece mark, the piece is of higher karat than the needle used. Trial and error will bring you close to the correct karat. Use bottle 3 for most testing.

TESTING FOR PRECIOUS METALS

SILVER: Pure silver is almost perfectly white, very ductile and malleable. Pure silver is too soft for general use. It is combined with copper to harden it. Sterling silver is 92½% silver and 7½% copper. Mexican silver is generally less than 90% pure silver. To test for silver: file a notch in the piece to be tested and apply a drop of #I solution. Sterling silver turns cloudy cream. In plated ware, the base metal will turn green.

*CAUTION: - AVOID BREATHING FUMES AND DIRECT CONTACT WITH SKIN.*


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