# Armoring your bugout car



## justsayno

Would anyone here consider armoring their bug-out car in case you ran into a pack of thieves in a situation of anarchy and they shot at your car?


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## Denny

How would you go about doing so? We threw a bunch of ballistic plates all over our vehicles before we got uparmored ones here, in Iraq.

I know there are companies that can uparmor your vehicle, but they're expensive. Several down-falls too... you gain a lot of weight (there goes your gas mileage), it's hard on the drivetrain (bye-bye tranny if it isn't beefed up), most don't allow for windows to roll down, door hinges and suspension need to be beefed as well. Don't forget to also switch to non-pneumatic tires like the President's vehicle... talk about a rough riding vehicle!


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## pantser

What about using a type of sticky foam insulation to hold a thick piece of metal there I have no problem carrying an extra 200 pounds just for doors only (2)


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## ldmaster

*old kevlar*

I found a source for old kevlar, police agencies, who would be destroying the stuff anyway. The rep for the company that swapped the armor out sold it to me with the proviso that I not resell it (they're supposed to certify that they destroy it)

I trimmed the 'wings' off and made several rectangles, then sewed the panels together and overlapped them. It weighs about 40 pounds per door. I waterproofed them with a rubber coating and inserted them into heavy mil plastic, then sealed them again. The heavy mill plastic is fastened to the outre door panel and it's about 1 inch thick.

It wont stop rifle rounds, probably slow them down a bit though - and weighs nothing. A similar plate of steel would have been around 75 lbs and fastening it in would be diffucult, and the plate wouldn't have given me the coverage that I was able to get by cutting and sewing the old armor.


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## Redtail

One thing to consider though is that Kevlar, in order to form an antiballistic barrier, needs to have a trauma plate _behind_ it. THe Kevlar acts as a shear-resistant puncture barrier, and a hard steel plate or a titanium/Aramid plate sits behind that in order to prevent the Kevlar fibers from moving and causing loss of structural stability.

Why not just have a faster, smaller car that can help you avoid such situations? Or a solid enough car to power through any barriers or obstacles?

Or better yet, personal body armor?


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## TheBlackRabbit

Barbed wire can be used to keep people off of your vehicle. Stopping bullets is not going to be easy.


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## Big B

Ahhhhh, shoot first....

Any questions?
Big B


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## TheBlackRabbit

Just saying that armoring a vehicle is difficult. Of course is you are bristling with pew-pew then they make think twice...


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## stompk

justsayno said:


> Would anyone here consider armoring their bug-out car in case you ran into a pack of thieves in a situation of anarchy and they shot at your car?


you know the conveyor belts they use at quarries? get and old one and play around with that. 2-3 layers worth or so.


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## BobS

Practical vehicle armoring for use TODAY - When SHTF - A Modern Day Survival Forum

A couple of thoughts on cost effective armoring...

Best regards,

Bob


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## TechAdmin

I think your time and energy would be better spent on other things then bulletproofing a vehicle personally. Maybe have some thick sheet metal to cover the windows laying around the garage just in case but welding armor or such right now would be pretty extreme.


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## JeepHammer

Dean said:


> I think your time and energy would be better spent on other things then bulletproofing a vehicle personally. Maybe have some thick sheet metal to cover the windows laying around the garage just in case but welding armor or such right now would be pretty extreme.


I'm with Dean on this...
I think making an improvised APC (Armored Personnel Carrier) is a pretty silly waste of time, energy and resources!
---------------------------

If you DO decide to do something this silly,
Keep in mind that STEEL does NOT make a very good bullet defeat!

Steel works OK for shrapnel, but the directed energy of a bullet will defeat a LOT of steel in short order.
I can blow right through a 3/4" steel backing plate with nothing more than a .30-06,
And I can blow through 1.5" of steel with a .30-06 Armor Piercing round...
---------------------------

Bullets are VERY hard to defeat head on, 
AND,
If you attempt to defeat them head on, you will have to absorb all the energy they carry with them, which is a BUNCH!

The best way to defeat a bullet is to 'Yaw' it.
If you Yaw a bullet in flight, it will break it's own self apart,
and you will only need something strong enough to take a glancing blow...

OR, to have the bullet hit something MUCH more prone to break the bullet up than steel...

CERAMICS are the best way to break up a bullet.
Ceramics will fracture when impacted, so a large plate isn't the best idea, smaller plates that overlap are a better way to do things...

If you don't have a bazillion dollars to make custom ceramic panels, then use ceramics little, cheaper brother,
Bricks.
You would be surprised what a common red brick will stop!
Tatictals in Somolia had bricks in the doors and bed sides, and that stopped 90% of what was thrown at them.

Many APC's from poorer countries add concrete slabs, looks kind of like bricks, to the armor to defeat AP rounds.
------------------

If you were going to 'Up Armor' or 'Hillbilly Armor' a common vehicle, I'd take a que from some of the poorer countries...

Somalia in '94 our forces were frustrated by what the locals called 'Tacticals'
That would be a light pickup with bricks stacked in the doors and bed walls, and a heavy machine gun or recoilless rifle mounted in the back.

Baltic Republics were shooting the crap out of each other when Yugoslavia broke up, and they molded fiber/ceramic reinforced concrete to defeat AP rounds and some RPG's were even defeated.
-------------------------------

Our troops are using 'Gun Trucks' with ammo boxes of rocks or concrete out against the outside of the truck bed, and sand bags or ammo cans with packed earth behind them to absorb the shrapnel from the rounds breaking up in the rocks or bricks...

Works very well!
Military gun truck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## omega

*SHFT Vehicle*

I have thought about that for a long time. It depends on the vehicle, some are easier that others. If one has a pickup and I do, this is the set up I would do. {Note, I have not done this yet} You have all seen the trucks with the lumber rack on trucks. Now most of the lumber racks protrude over the cab section of the truck. Now the material I would use is polycarbonate panels that can fold down and protect your side windows. They lay flat on the lumber rack when not needed and since they are clear, it would make them almost invisible. You also have them in the bed of the truck-protecting the rear window. For the door protection, two ideas, place kevlar curtain in the dool panel, and or have a section of polycarbonate custom fitted to slide into place to protect the driver and the passenger. It is not 100% but in a truck, and I would use a 4x4 with a good steel grill guard, I doubt a few shots could get though.


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## Magi

I saw an episode of Burn Notice a week or so ago. They placed phone books into the voids of the doors. Not sure if it would work in real life. Seems like it would be one way to keep the weight down.


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## Canadian

I'm buying body armor. Since I'm in the middle of the city I'm not counting on the car being very mobile. It also gives me the ability to change cars if I need to. I get a feeling in a real bad situation you'd be changing cars quite often.


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## jebrown

You can armor your vehicle to stop anything from a BB gun to any hand held RPG or something with more destructive power. 
Still yiou are wasting time and money while you provide yourself with a false sense of security.
You will also need to armor the roof of your vehicle as well as the undercarrage.
After shooting out your tires or putting something in your path that will flatten your tires they can come in or shoot through your roof.
Flip your vehicle on its side and shoot through the floor. 
Ever think about armor for your radiator? How about your gas tank? One hole which can come from others things besides a gun and BOOM now your vehicle is on fire. 
I can think of much better ways to spend money other than on vehicle armor that is iffy at best.
What are the real odds of you needing an armored vehicle?


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## dukman

The whole idea of a bug-out vehicle, IMO, is to get out of dodge BEFORE it gets really bad. If you are needing bullet-proofing on your vehicle, then you are trying to get out DAYS OR WEEKS later than you should have...

Instead of trying to armor the vehicle, I say put it into the rig other ways: beef up the suspension, over-sized alternator, steel braided hoses, extra capacity radiator, stout bumper, good tires, good winch, tow hooks, off-road lights, snorkle, roof rack, etc etc.


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## Canadian

I've always like police model cars. I used to sell Chevrolet police cars. The police models aren't that much more expensive than the normal ones. You get all kinds of high performance and high durability extras. You can also snap up used police cars at auction for next to nothing.

If buying a police model car is illegal in your area most car makers do a "taxi package" which is almost identical to the police model and it's civilian legal.


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## Expeditioner

I agree with most of the people that have responded to this thread. Armoring your car is not an efficient use of resources. The extra weigh will reduce gas mileage which is counter productive to the whole objective of a BOV. 

Personal body armor as suggested by Canadian would be more practical in most situations. The money you save could be spent making the improvements by suggested by dukman.

Successfully!

Expeditioner


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## Chemechie

*Hmm... A couple thoughts*

Check out this guy The Box O' Truth - The Buick O' Truth for good info on what various weapons will do to a vehicle. 
It depends on what you are up against and what your vehicle is; an older vehicle with heavier sheet metal may stop pistols pretty good; anything civilian against heavy weapons (M-16 or worse) will be in trouble. 
In my opinion, defensive driving and good recon will be more help than armor. I've worked with the military before and seen how much damage even light military equipment can do to civilian vehicles.
Of course if you want a serious armored vehicle, look up the Ferret - an old British armored car available in the US for as little as $15,000 depending on condition. Street legal even!


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## allen_idaho

If I were going to armor a car for whatever reason, I probably wouldn't use much steel. Instead, I would go for reinforced polycarbonate of at least 1" thick. 

Extra steel plates would be good for the underside of the car just in case. Especially in a v-shape. But I wouldn't really count on running into too many landmines or IEDs.


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## kbamvakais

the only thing i can add here is just how i armored my car, i but steel grates over all the windows, so u can sitll roll them up and down, and it protects from thrown opjects, and things like bats, rocks, sticks, and if i do have to go through a barrier or road block or something like that it will keep my windshield for shattering, i also added a custom made grill guard with the same steel grates in the center to protect the radiator and engine and headlights, i filled all the empty body cavaties with thick expanding fire proof foam, which has a few benefits, 1 sealed the body incase of deep water, also added some boyancy in case of real deep water, and its light, all and all its not going to stop automatic rifle rounds but.. it make me feel better and it only added about 250lbs of weight.


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## NaeKid

kbamvakais, Do you have a picture of this beast of yours?


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## bunkerbob

Are you new to the forum, if so WELCOME:welcome:, from a long time preparer. Look forward to more posts, and I agree, send us some photos.


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## TechAdmin

Welcome, I would love to see some pics.


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## sailaway

Personally, i don't want to be any where that you would need an armored car and plan on b eing long gone before it is neccessary. I prefer being stealth and blending in.


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## kbamvakais

pics coming soon as soon as the weather breaks here in st.louis SOOO COLD!!!! its more its wicked cool though, snorkel, winch front and rear, 2in lift 29x9.5 Uniroyal liberator A/T, and all the smog and crap has been removed, engine is hoped up just a little for better milage just intake and exhaust, kc lights on the roof rack, i striped out the interior to gain more room for storage except the front seats and the one back seat for my daughter. two 10 gallon auxillary fuel tanks, bringing the total to 38 gallon which equals a loaded fuel range of close to 700miles, so im ready for FIT TO HIT THE SHAN.


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## Turtle

Kbamvakais, what sort of vehicle is it?

gotta say, your idea of protecting the sensitive parts of the vehicle makes the most sense. It has to be able to keep running if it's gonna be of any value to you. Armoring up to that degree makes a lot of sense: skid plates, tranny skids, gas tank skids, grill guards, etcetera. Armoring up to the point of being bullet-proof . . . seems counter-productive for all of the reasons already put forth.


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## kbamvakais

Its an 84 AMC EAGLE Wagon and As Promised Pics coming soon


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## kbamvakais

*heres some picks to hold u over for now*

pics from when we first got it and a pic of the engine before the snorkel, new pics with armor, and grill guard coming soon


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## Turtle

OH MAN!!! I love those things! What a great idea! They were basically rally cars before rally cars were cool.

My understanding of those cars is that the transfer case was something of a weak point; have you done anything to beef it up? Looks like it is in great shape!


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## kbamvakais

o yeah read the replys to this post and as far as the transfer case, yeay they were vaccume operated, so i swaped it out for an older Jeep mechanical setup., the engine is a 4.2L I6 i have removed all the smog and unneeded crap, cleaned it up, added an intake and 4brl carb, dual exhaust and header, 4.0 jeed head for higher compression and more reliablity, lifted 2in w/ 29x9.5 uniroyal Liberators, snorkel, 2 10 gallon auxilary fuel tanks so it has close to a 700 mile range, tons of auxilary lights, brush guard, so many skidplates it almost looks like a boat from underneath,lol its a deticated BOV/Zombie killing machine


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## WinTheMindWinTheDay

To resurrect this thread, I will ask: where are "after" pictures of that car?

And to add my two cents: I have heard that layering thick telephone books as one would bricks, and taping them or sealing them together would have similar qualities as layered Kevlar. Maybe not stop the penetration of a rifle round, but definitely slow it down.

Has anyone tried this theory?


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## Turtle

WinTheMindWinTheDay said:


> To resurrect this thread, I will ask: where are "after" pictures of that car?
> 
> And to add my two cents: I have heard that layering thick telephone books as one would bricks, and taping them or sealing them together would have similar qualities as layered Kevlar. Maybe not stop the penetration of a rifle round, but definitely slow it down.
> 
> Has anyone tried this theory?


It would seem that it takes REEEAAAALLLY long for the weather in Saint Louis to cleaer up.... seven months, at least! Lol. I'm guessing that it doesn't really exist and it was just his fantasy as to what he would like it to be when finished.

As for the phone books... yeah, they did it on "Burn Notice". Lol


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## Magus

justsayno said:


> Would anyone here consider armoring their bug-out car in case you ran into a pack of thieves in a situation of anarchy and they shot at your car?


No.I'd go to the bank and drive off in an armored car or hit the local quarry for a D-9.


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## WinTheMindWinTheDay

Turtle said:


> As for the phone books... yeah, they did it on "Burn Notice". Lol


Oh... 

Really?! haha 

I don't watch TV, and especially not while deployed at the moment, so I had no idea.


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## VUnder

I want to armor plate a school bus and fill the tires solid so no flats. I am thinking of making it 4x4 too, I have an old army truck here, with the parts I need, to make an armored personnel carrier, one time use only.


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