# You Guys Want Proof?



## wallstwench (Jan 22, 2011)

Hey guys,

Sorry for not posting some hard facts sooner, but both of my computers were hacked into and my research was gone. I spent the entire day yesterday downloading spyware with tech people.

Let me start with a few definitions.

*Bullion: * Refined precious metal in NON coin form.

*Bullion Coin: *A precious metal coin trading AT current bullion price.

*Dollar: * Of the Republic of the United States of America as established originally by the Constitution of the Republic of the United States of America and first promulgated under the Coinage Act of 1792, as three hundred and seventy-one grains and four sixteenths parts of a grain of pure, or four hundred and sixteen grains of standard silver, shall be served as the basis on monetary transactions.

The last dollar coin was minted between 1792 and 1935. There have not been any dollar coins made since 1935. Everything else produced with the word Dollar, or dollar, is either a promissory note, scrip, unit of account, obligation, fiat, tender, or method of settlement.

*The Coinage Act of 1792*
*Sec. 14.* And be it further enacted, That it shall be lawful for any person or persons to bring to the said mint gold and silver bullion, in order to their being coined; and that the bullion so brought shall be there assayed and coined as speedily as may be after the receipt thereof, and that free of expense of the person or persons by whom the same shall have been brought. And as soon as the said bullion shall have been coined, the person or persons by whom the same shall have been delivered, shall upon demand receive in lieu thereof coins of the same species of bullion which shall have been so delivered, weight for weight, of the pure gold or pure silver therein contained: Provided nevertheless, That it shall be at the mutual option of the party or parties bringing such bullion, and of the director of the said mint, to make an immediate exchange of coins for standard bullion, with a deduction of one half per cent. from the weight of the pure gold, or pure silver contained in the said bullion, as an indemnification to the mint for the time which will necessarily be required for coining the said bullion, and for the advance which have been so made in coins. And it shall be the duty of the Secretary of the Treasury to furnish the said mint from time to time whenever the state of the treasury will admit thereof, with such sums as may be necessary for effecting the said exchanges, to be replaced as speedily as may be out of the coins which shall have been made of the bullion for which the monies so furnished shall have been exchanged; and the said deduction of one half per cent. shall constitute a fund towards defraying the expenses of the said mint.

*Sec. 15.* And be it further enacted, That the bullion which shall be brought as aforesaid to the mint to be coined, shall be coined, and the equivalent thereof in coins rendered, if demanded, in the order in which the said bullion shall have been brought or delivered, giving priority according to priority of delivery only, and without preference to any person or persons; and if any preference shall be given contrary to the direction aforesaid, the officer by whom such undue preference shall be given, shall in each case forfeit and pay one thousand dollars, to be recovered with costs of suit. And to the end that it may be known if such preference shall at any time be given, the assayer or officer to whom the said bullion shall be delivered to be coined, shall give to the person or persons bringing the same, a memorandum in writing under his hand, denoting the weight, fineness and value thereof, together with the day and order of its delivery into the mint.

Sec. 16. And be it further enacted, That all the gold and silver coins which shall have been struck at, and issued from the said mint, shall be a lawful tender in all payments whatsoever, those of full weight according to the respective values herein before declared, and those of less than full weight of values proportional to their respective weights.

*Sec. 19. *And be it further enacted, That if any of the gold or silver coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint shall be debased or made worse as to the proportion of fine gold or fine silver therein contained, or shall be of less weight or value than the same ought to be pursuant to the directions of this act, through the default or with the connivance of any of the officers or persons who shall be employed at the said mint, for the purpose of profit or gain, or otherwise with a fraudulent intent, and if any of the said officers or persons shall embezzle any of the metals which shall at any time be committed to their charge for the purpose of being coined, or any of the coins which shall be struck or coined at the said mint, every such officer or person who shall commit any or either of the said offences, shall be deemed guilty of felony, and shall suffer death.

*Sec. 20.* And be it further enacted, That the money of account of the United States shall be expressed in dollars or units, dimes or tenth, cents or hundredths, and miles or thousandths, a dime being the tenth part of a dollar, a cent the hundredth part of a dollar, a mile the thousandth part of a dollar, and that all accounts in the public offices and all proceedings in the courts of the United States shall be kept and had in conformity to this regulation.

A few months back I had hunch these things weren't what they seemed, and it started with a comment my Mom made. She just didn't like them. Call it women's intuition, or the fact that she's just wise, but I knew I needed to store that in my memory and revisit it when I had more time. The amount of advertising these things were getting were amazing. I also couldn't grasp how these were as sturdy as they were. Once I started digging I found it hard to believe there wasn't one other ingredient listed on it anywhere. I live by the site: Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth? I use it everyday. He only had this to say about them on his FAQ page:

*12. "Reading the USC laws of the United States it says that the 2010 American Eagle, 99.9% pure silver face value one dollar, is legal tender. Why do you not show it along with the other US Mint coins?"*

_This is a website to discover melt values. I didn't think the melt value of a 1 oz silver eagle was much of a mystery to most people, but considering the volume of email regarding the topic, I guess it is. So, in an effort of inclusion, here's the equation:

{current silver spot price} * 1.0 = n

I'm just here to help. _

Then I found this site giving different alloy compositions. This particular one is a Maganese Bronze and the composition used for the dollar is 88.5% Cu, 6% Zn, 3.5% Mn and 2% Ni overall, with a cladding of 77% Cu, 12% Zn, 7% Mn and 4% Ni. This combination was chosen in order to match the electrical properties of the earlier Susan B. Anthony dollar to avoid costly changes to vending machines.

I will send more information once I gather it all up again, but for now, it is my humble opinion that the calculation the site above provided, is absolutely correct. The Silver Eagles are *.99%* fine silver like they say, however that .99 really is less than 1% and not* 99.9%* fine silver like people think. Like I said, I did the chemical test myself a few nights ago. I compared it to a 90% silver coin, and they are absolutely made of completely different compositions. You should see my fingers. They are still stained from the color the Eagle turned while testing it.

Based on what I've read, it seems that the bullion coins are representative of stored bullion. This is why when an "authorized dealer" of the US Mint sells them, they are required to do a money transfer from the customer to their "depository" bank. Good news is, when they agree to become an authorized dealer, they are required to make a 2 way price in them at all times. Anyway, I hope nobody is long these and needs any more convincing because I plan on making some noise about this here shortly.

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Wall St. Wench


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

You might be right or you might be wrong but without specific assay information including methodology, at least for me, an unsupported, "some guy said this on his web site" just doesn't constitute proof. A "heads up"? Certainly. A "you might want to be cautious"? Absolutely! But to call it a scam without supporting proof? To quote the goat in the AFLAC commercial; "Nah-nah-nah"!


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## wallstwench (Jan 22, 2011)

Wow. Thing is, if you really read what I wrote, I offer all the facts you need, and I dug them up myself. There’s not ONE single site out there that I could find even suggesting what I’m saying. So, I will say this one more time:

“I tested a 2010 Silver Eagle Bullion Coin” myself with nitric acid and an onyx stone, just like jewelers do. I’m not posting these threads to steer anyone in the wrong direction, or even to offer my unfounded opinion. I’ve always offered facts about finance because those with less experience asked me to share my knowledge when I first signed up here. I have no motive, am not on an ego trip, and I would love to be wrong, but I know I’m not. 

What sort of facts are you looking for or willing to accept? I found many of my facts in Coin Collector books, but can reference some of the sites I sourced as well, although if you want to remain in denial, more power to you. I sure wish I could go back to having faith in our government. Life sure was easier that way.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

wallstwench said:


> I sure wish I could go back to having faith in our government. Life sure was easier that way.


Amen to that.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

*I am confused.*

What am I missing?
Is the main point of this post that US mint silver is .99, and not .999?
I'm just trying to understand.
Oh wait. I had to reread it. You are saying that a silver eagle is only .99% silver, and not 99% silver? My understanding is that .99 pure (or .999) means 99%, not .99%, which is obviously a huge difference.

What I found interesting is that I can show up at the mint, and have them mint my silver (Oh crap, it just fell down the drain! Oh well...) into coins.
I would show up at the local mint (which happens to be in DC), and say "Ahem. It says right here that you will make this into coins. Now chop chop."
Somehow I doubt this is still in effect.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

US Mint Silver Proof Sets Suspended as Silver Prices Break $40 | Silver Coins Today


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## wallstwench (Jan 22, 2011)

*100% Proof!! See Attached Photo OMG!!!!*

Immolatus: :surrender:I apologize if I wasn't clear and if I was a bit short with you. I feel like I have been SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS for about a year now, and nobody will listen. I was trying to be as politically correct as I could about this one, since NOBODY is talking, blogging, or writing about this one at all. Trust me, MANY dealers have been aware of this. Many collectors have been aware of this. Those in charge of minting it for sure know this, and our government positively knows this.

So I will just come out and say it.......*US Minted Eagle Bullion Coins* are a complete scam. I can say without a doubt now, they contain .999 Troy Ounce in CONTENT and it's weight is 1.00 Troy Ounce. A special "*Balance of silver bullion consists of copper."

Thing is, now what? If I make enough noise, will it really make a difference? The government has every angle covered. They will either admit to having less than 1% of an ounce of silver, saying it says so right on the coin, or that's why they only have a face value of $1USD. I'm guessing they will blame the dealers for not disclosing the truth. I hope they WON'T say that "Bullion Coins" REPRESENT a full ounce of silver. Because if that is the case, it means that owners of these coins are then attached to the bank in which the bullion was deposited. I will save that for another thread though.

I've been screaming for so long now that I'm tired. From the Housing Market, to Mutual Funds, 401ks, Pension Funds, the Stock Market, our Government and The Federal Reserve all being a scam, I'm exhausted. Maybe I should stop trying to save anyone who will listen and just worry about becoming a better prepare.

The attached photo is straight from the US Mint's Website:
http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/mint_programs/am_eagles/AMERSILVREAGLE.pdf


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Thats ok, you were being short with the other guy, not me. 

I still dont get it. 
It is .999 oz of silver, and the total weight is 1 troy oz.
So there is .001 oz of copper.


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## wallstwench (Jan 22, 2011)

After fighting finding out what I have, and then fighting to disclose it to the public, I am probably going to take a break from posting for a bit. Every piece of technology I own is swarming with bugs and I am pretty exhausted from making it this far. If I keep pushing, I may invite massive trouble my way. I hope I’ve at least made a few of you question these as a safe investment.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Sometimes you just have to step back and take a deep breath. Things will usually come into focus. I have found that after you have stated a fact you believe to be true and no one listens, to just keep quiet because the more you say the more you turn them off. I know you believe in what you are putting out there and I admire you for it. Don't stop trying to inform us of things you uncover, just allow us to digest as we can.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Yes, please do. We appreciate your contributions.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Silver is up*

Silver is up again today. I bought 6000 troy oz since yesterday .

I am up about 3 K if I sell now.

Silver bullion commoditys are very active .

Gold is on the way up also.

:2thumb:


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