# Anybody else have a parent in a nursing home?



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

My dad lives 150 miles away. He had a stroke last December. He has Alzheimer's. I'm afraid of what will happen to him after an economic collapse. I can imagine patients being abandoned. I don't know if I could safely get there to pick him up and take him back home. Or how I could take care of a combative Alzheimer's patient. Depending on what he does and how he acts he could get us all killed in a post-collapse world. Not only that, we didn't get along before he had Alzheimer's.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

You are not alone my friend many families are in the same situation but let me reassure you that in a economic collapse everybody will suffer in one way or another, look back at history and see just a few years ago, the financial crisis of 2007–08, many committed suicide others killed the entire family others haven`t recover yet, please don`t think so far ahead you will only hurt yourself and those near you, lived your life for the moment enjoy it to its fullest and just do the best you can under your circumstances.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

This is going to sound cold to some. My mother is also in a secure, dementia ward less than an hour away. In certain scenarios, EMP, nuclear meltdown, hurricane, etc. I will not be attempting to "rescue" her from the clutches of the State of Maryland. She is on so many meds that without them, she will not last long anyway. I also have a F-I-L that is a kidney transplant recipient, also less than an hour away, same goes for him. Without his anti-rejection meds he won't last long at all.

We have not packed away massive amounts of supplies to harbor our whole family. Those that can make it to our home need to bring as much food as possible with them and then we'll look at canning, smoking and salting all that we can.

We will have to put up with certain family members that I do not choose to spend much time with because of personality and priority clashes anyway. Tough choices will have to be made, I pray that if the time ever comes that exclusion/inclusion decisions need to be made that God will guide my decisions for the best of my immediate family and those that we can harbor longer term.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

Our last parent died a couple of years ago. She lived with us for twenty years but had to go to a Memory Unit (Nursing Home) for the last six months. i told my wife to just give me a gun before she sent me to one of those places. If a parent or loved one has dementia or Alzheimer Disease (they are two different diseases) you really have no choice but to put them in a care unit. In the latter stages of Alzheimers the patient becomes very combative and can injure a loved one they no longer recognize. 

The same thing applies to parents with special needs children with Autism. Autistic kids and adults will have an unreal time trying to survive in a post collapse world. The meds they require will not be available and in most cases they will have a myriad of health issues that require constant medication. Parents will also be at high risk because they feel so guilty about their children or adults. 

Can you do something for your dad? probably NO. It is very easy for those not affected to give you advice about what you should do it they have never been in your shoes. Once an Alzheimer's patient reaches the point they no longer know their family it is too late to help them. The disease has gone way too far. Don't carry a bunch of guilt with you. GB


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

If it ever becomes a true EOTWAWKI it will become survival of the fittest.
The week and sickly will die off and there is very little anyone can do to prevent it.
My brother is disabled and has kidney failure. Without dialysis he will die.
My wife takes several medications and without them she will be in bad shape fast.
Mt daughter used to work in assisted living places and I know she would not abandon her patients but eventually there won't be any way to keep them alive.
We have suspended the laws of nature by artificially keeping people living via things like dialysis, medications, inoculations and so on.
That is a very good thing, but it will end.
As for going to rescue people, would it really be a rescue? If you can't care for them they will be better off where they are. As hard as that will be for you.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Every lifeboat has a rated capacity. Once that capacity has been reached, no matter how many are still in the water, you do not allow any more aboard. There are limited provisions on each lifeboat and too much weight can swamp the lifeboat. The law allows you to use lethal force to prevent additional people from climbing aboard. These additional can mean the death of everyone.

In the medical field there is a process called triage. Triage means to sort. In a mass casualty situation you decide who gets your limited resources. If you only have one patient that individual gets all your resources. If you have multiple patients then you provide resources to serve the greatest number. Some patients will survive without your immediate attention. Some patients will require all or most of your resources. If the resources required for the one can save two or five then the one has drawn the short straw. Decisions must be made.

The scenario you put forward is a grim one. I don't care how prepared you are you can't save everyone, your lifeboat isn't that big. If one individual will use up all your resources or requires resources that you just do not have, as hard as it may be, you have to cast them adrift. The alternative is to drown everyone. This will be unpleasant with strangers. Turning away friends and family will break your heart. We have already decided who will be welcome. There are others that may get past the front door if they bring enough resources with them. It is good that you are thinking this through now rather than waiting for the stress and emotion to be major factors.


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## kemps (Jun 1, 2015)

I can tell you my disabled chic pov on this one. Is it bad to say that someone disabled won't live as long as a young healthy person? Know, it is fricken fact. Maybe it is mean but not because someone says it, because life is a cruel mistress. Not everyone can be saved for one and something you have to ask yourself, would my family member, if they were in their right mind, want me to risk my life and the life of your family? Would he ask to trade his son's life, his grandkids etc for his temporary survival? I have already tried to talk about this with my honey and its super hard for him. I don't doubt for a millisecond that he would rip off his own arm if he thought it would help me. He also knows I would jump on a spike if it would stop him. Do I want him to ditch me if his life depends on it? Absolutely. I am not delusional about my health and I know that I wouldn't make it forever. Hell, I am pretty bad off right now. I know this stuff is hard to think about. Try not to put the world on your shoulders, it is too heavy for anyone!


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

what you need to remember is that scum thugs will consider nursing care type retirement homes like the med centers, hospitals, pharmacies ect - drug heaven .... you combine possible valuables like jewelry .... and opportunity to rape or kidnap a young nurse .... 

the retirement homes won't last long .... if the druggies don't get them, the regular starving horde will be coming for the kitchen later ....


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

IlliniWarrior said:


> what you need to remember is that scum thugs will consider nursing care type retirement homes like the med centers, hospitals, pharmacies ect - drug heaven .... you combine possible valuables like jewelry .... and opportunity to rape or kidnap a young nurse ....
> 
> the retirement homes won't last long .... if the druggies don't get them, the regular starving horde will be coming for the kitchen later ....


I don't have family in a nursing home but I hope what happens to some extent is like the Walking Dead "Vatos" episode in the first season.

Nurses and relatives went to check on family/patients and ended up staying to help protect/care for them. They understood that at some point medications and food would run out but they kept hope alive for the residents just by being there for them.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

*my dad passed away in 1998.but my mom is still liveing.she does have health issues,and still living at home.in which i do for her every day..including driving her to doctor appt's to beauty appt's,to where ever.it's getting to the point where she stays home while i go do the primary shopping for the month..and because of her health and the meds she takes.i dont see her living 3 to 6 months after a power grid failure.to having no AC.in which i have come to terms with that,at least some what.on account i've acknowledge this with my self.plus i know,that if i ever have to put her in a nurseing home,or where ever.then chances are,i wont go get her.on account she might be more of a burden on me.and everyone else..even if my self and or someone else went and got her.how long will she live,when it comes to the bad shape and bad health she'll be in by then?all these things we have to plan on and accept when we have a family member in bad health and all..*


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It has been decades since we have had any immediate family (parents, grandparents, great grandparents) in a long-term care facility (other than working at them). We certainly have less-able people in the family, for instance, one that has no use of their legs whatsoever. In that instance, there is almost no-one I would rather have in a TEOTWAWKI than them, I mean that literally. Knowledge, wisdom, intuition, experience, and skills seem to often accumulate in individuals with the most "interesting" life stories. I would rather have that particular individual, who could _only_ DO things like be on watch, make 500yard shots with ease, monitor cameras, drive better with hand controls than many people without, handle pretty much any craft or skill like leather working, gunsmithing, etc, etc. That I can trust ABSOLUTELY to make good decisions. Than the vast majority of people I have ever met. Sure, strong backs would be vital in that situation, but they are pretty much a dime a dozen compared to all of the rest.

Mental issues are quite different in many ways however, it is very important to mention that EVERYTHING is on a spectrum. Saying someone has Alzheimer's or Parkinson's means almost nothing without addressing the degree and symptoms. Many people with these conditions have decades of productive life after being diagnosed.

What I think is important to remember though, is that for many people, institutions greatly exacerbate these conditions. Familiar people and surroundings, a sense of purpose, a sense of control, have all been demonstrated to make things much less problematic.

Anyways, my circumstance is certainly not typical, we have hundreds of tons of food onsite and the plan to keep producing it, security systems, and a remote location. We have the skills (medical and interpersonal) to, so far, avoid needing to use institutionalized care on a long term basis. Obviously that is not the case for everyone so that is a decision that has to be made on a case by case basis by the family or group.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

My grandmother fell in her garden and broke C-2 vertebrae in 2004 and we took care of her in her home until she demanded to be put in a nursing home because of the toll it was taking on the family, she passed away in 2011.

If the world had collapsed while she was in there we(myself especially) would have gotten her and if for no other reason, so she could pass at home with family close by.

I understand this isn't your situation and for some, leaving a facility could be fatal in itself, but it's an option to consider.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

My comment was rather long winded, I hope it didn't come across as anything other than opinion and individual circumstance.

I have relatives that work in long term care and I know that many people prefer them or assisted living to living at home or with family. Particularly those that are big on non-family social interactions often find it nice, especially in rural areas where it is easy to become isolated.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> My comment was rather long winded, I hope it didn't come across as anything other than opinion and individual circumstance.
> 
> I have relatives that work in long term care and I know that many people prefer them or assisted living to living at home or with family. Particularly those that are big on non-family social interactions often find it nice, especially in rural areas where it is easy to become isolated.


You bring up a good point. There are many reasons that people go into long term care and many levels of need in those patients. My grandparents kept their mental acuity till the end and could have provided advice, lookout, and other duties. A friend that I went to school with doesn't even know who I am when I visit, he requires 24hr care.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We have a 17 year old that functions at a 2-3 year old level. He's autistic, has heart problems, asthma, severe eczema, GI issues, seizures, blind, & incontinent. He's on 12 different prescription medications, he's high maintenance to say the least. We prep the best we can for him but there's no way he'll live through a long term SHTF. When the medication runs out, it's over for him. That's okay, he'll die at home, comfortable, & surrounded by his loved ones. 

In a major SHTF scenario, it's likely a nursing home won't have the staff or supplies necessary to care for the patients. They're a lot like grocery stores now, they don't keep much stocked up. The meds will be gone in a couple weeks at most & the psychotropics & pain meds will likely be looted or stolen by the employees in a few days. They barely have enough staff on a good day with one nurse & one aide per 30+ patients, many of them will stay home to tend to their own family. Without water or electricity, patients will start dying off quickly from dehydration & infections being spread from the lack of sanitation. It will not be a pretty sight.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

My 3 year old son, my 20 month old granddaughter, & my 7 month old grandson won't be of much use in a SHTF scenario, they will consume limited resources, they'll be a security risk, someone will have to care for them constantly, but we'll risk life & limb to get them home. I don't care how long I live, I care *how* I live. I will live & make choices according to my values & morals, regardless of my circumstances. I prep to have what I will need to help deal with the consequences of those choices. There will be challenges, i know what they are & I work on each problem individually. To me, there are worse things than death. Had I been blessed with a mother, I would take care of her the best I could till the day she died. I've had the privilege of taking care of two terminally ill loved ones & being there as they died, I wouldn't undo the choice to care for them for nothing in this world.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I too have had the honor of caring for a loved one on their death bed. This was not in a SHTF situation. I also would defend the young of my family at all cost. I too would protect my mother at the cost of my own life but not at the cost of the young. I'm not saying to abandon the elderly or infirm. Neither am I saying to support the elderly or infirm at all cost. I'm saying that hard decisions may have to be made. 

I can tell you this for sure, if I saved Mom at the cost of one of her grandkids there are no words strong enough for the curse she would bring down on me. The kids are the future, Mom and I are the past. Honor and learn from the past but protect the future.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Caribou said:


> I too have had the honor of caring for a loved one on their death bed. This was not in a SHTF situation. I also would defend the young of my family at all cost. I too would protect my mother at the cost of my own life but not at the cost of the young. I'm not saying to abandon the elderly or infirm. Neither am I saying to support the elderly or infirm at all cost. I'm saying that hard decisions may have to be made.


Our family takes care of each other, period. We prep for the needs of each family member, not just those that can help me survive. I prep so I don't have to choose who gets limited resources. We prep so *no one* goes without necessities. We prep the items necessary to care for each & every family member. Each & every member of my family is a precious gift from God. By my actions in hard times, I teach my children values & morals. We leave no one behind. We may not all make it through, but we were together & taking care of each other. In our family, that's what matters.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

Another issue to understand when going to collect loved ones, is the time factor if vehicular transport in not feasible. A 20 mile/30 minute drive to p/u a loved one in a wheelchair and return without the convenience of a motor vehicle or horse-drawn wagon will become an all day endurance test. Even an elderly person who is ambulatory can make a 20 mile trip into a multi-day event because of their lack of endurance.

Possible, yes. Advisable, your call, especially if that person's long-term viability is very questionable and you risk losing your life or being lost to those that are dependent upon you.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

BillS said:


> My dad lives 150 miles away. He had a stroke last December. He has Alzheimer's. I'm afraid of what will happen to him after an economic collapse. I can imagine patients being abandoned. I don't know if I could safely get there to pick him up and take him back home. Or how I could take care of a combative Alzheimer's patient. Depending on what he does and how he acts he could get us all killed in a post-collapse world. Not only that, we didn't get along before he had Alzheimer's.


That's would be a 3 hour drive for you in normal times? Minimum 6 hour round trip plus load time?

*Best Case Scenario*

You will need a second (perhaps two) person(s) to exclusive care for your Dad on the return trip.

You will need 2 more people to provide security.

Could your MAG do without 5 people and the support resources for that period of time?

Once back at your BOL your Dad will have to be "watched" 24 x 7 so that he can't violate OPSEC. Does your MAG have have the manpower and resources to do so?

*Worse Case Scenario*

Roads are impassable, hordes roaming looking for victims. Does your MAG have the man power and resources for a 20 day forced march?

3 miles an hour x 10 hours = 30 miles a day / 300 miles = 10 days for healthy conditioned youngsters. I would double the time to allow for rest, detours and unexpected events, 20 days.

Could your MAG do without 5 people and the support resources for that period of time?


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

My family just made the decision 2 weeks ago to put my mother in a nursing home. I did not agree with the decision, but was out voted. There's not a way I could get to her in a SHTF situation. She's on high blood pressure medicine, so I assume if that ran out she'd have a stroke. At this point in time I have to choose not to think about any of it because it makes me absolutely sick to my stomach to think about the thousands of elderly as well as disabled people who would suffer and die in that kind of scenario. I can't even begin to come up with anything to prevent it.


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