# So, today, are you ready for this?



## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

I know there's some perverse joy that's gained by thinking about the end of the world as we know it, when what weapons you've cached will make all the difference, but what if something less dramatic happened? What if something like this happened at your home right now?

Here's the scenario: There's a severe winter storm that has shut down all the roads, brought down powerlines, and temperatures have plummeted to the single digits. You have no electricity, which, more than likely, means you have no furnace or boiler because they take electricity to run fans and pumps. So, how ready are you for this? What steps have you taken to ensure heat, light, and food for your family for 72 hours and beyond? How long could you hold out before you'd have to secure something beyond what you have at home (fuel, food, water, entertainment)? Just what are you going to do if there's no internet or TV to entertain you? What are the next steps you need to make to prepare if you aren't already prepared?

Personally, I see this as one of the most likely events for most Americans at any given time. If you really want to throw a wrench in it, what would you do if the storm came in while you were at work? In your car?


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

NOT A PROBLEM!
Down at the river house, we aren't on the 'Grid' anyway.

AND...
That's what I've been saying all along!

Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Snow/Ice Storms, Floods *SHOULD* be what this forum is all about!

The paranoids want to turn it into the 'End Of The World', and that's just not going to happen...
-------------------

Around here, it was a flood this spring that did in the local utilities.
I ran my generator, passed around extension cords to the neighbors to allow them to run refrigerators/freezers every couple or three hours,
and we kept medicine & baby formula for the neighbors we couldn't reach.

Housed and fed several of the 'refugees' that wanted to stay close to their homes and not stay in a 'Shelter'...

------------------------------

If you are on 'Natural Gas' or city supplied gas, then all you would really need is a medium sized power inverter to run the furnace from your car battery...
(and be smart enough to get it hooked up!)

If you are 'All Electric', you put all your eggs in one basket, then backed over it with a truck! You are simply screwed!

Also, free standing kerosene or propane heaters and stored fuel would keep you and the house from freezing up,
But I can guarantee you now that if you don't already have the heaters/fuel, you won't be able to buy any after the big freeze!
------------------------------

As for the news article you linked to...
Well, I have always lived in a 'Rural' or 'Secondary Market', so anything that happens, Snow, Ice, Flooding, ect. we have always been on our own!

In the last big ice storm, I chained up the Wagoneer tires, loaded up the chain saws, bolt cutters and tow straps, and started cutting our way out...
(and carting the cut wood home!  If I'm doing the work, I'm getting the wood!)

The last big snow storm, I chained up the Wagoneer tires,
Mounted the snow plow, tow straps and chain saws, and went out to plow snow and pull people out of their drive ways.

It's just what we do around here. The state will take somewhere between 5 days and two weeks to get to us, and I simply don't want to wait for that, so we do it our selves!


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## skip (Dec 13, 2008)

We're bracing for a storm to come thru' tonite. My home is all electric, but we have wood back-up. We have about 25 gallons of water in jugs, and if that runs out, there's a spring nearby. We have our kerosene lamps full, and a camping stove to cook on.We'll be fine


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

Jeep Hammer,
With all due respect, I think you are leaving a few things off the list of things to worry about. What about war, terrorist attacks, societal collapse? This forum is named "Prepared Society" that means prepared for whatever threat we face. I realize you live in the country and are well prepared, but those of us who live near the urban centers are definately concerned about more than tornados, floods, etc.

I am "looking to the future" and that is why I am concerned. You are somewhat oblivious to plight of those less well positioned than yourself. We see a society in steep and rapid decline and we see that the people, including ourselves, are not prepared for what is coming. I am getting more prepared, but the hour seems late and the resources are limited.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I am always ready for the ice and cold. Generator - check. UPS battery systems - check. Solar panels - check. Water (beer) - check. Fuel - check. Two-stroke oil - check. Chain-saw - check. Tire chains - check. Propane catalytic heater (and extra propane) - check. Propane cook stove and BBQ's - check. Propane 20# tanks - 7 - half full or better - mounted or covered and tested.

Here in Calgary we are in the middle of an arctic deepfreeze that dropped the temperatures 40 degrees in 24hrs. We went from high-teens (celsius) to -25. We also had a huge dump of snow to match the cold with water-mains snapping. I am still comfortable - heat is still on. But - that can always change.


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## dunappy (Nov 11, 2008)

Gee that is totally easy. Got more than 5 cords of wood (will last us in our area up to two full years even with bad storms) stacked and split and up in the barn. Got oil lamps sitting around the house waiting for use. Got food in the freezer, got food in the cupboard, got dehydrated food and stored water. We have a battery and hand crank powered radio and flashlights. As for entertainment, since I don't have kids, I can sit near the oil lamp and crochet my next project which currenly is a nice warm capelet to help keep me warm. 

And finally if a storm comes while I'm at work and I can't get home (cause my home is 30 miles from work), I go to my sisters house in town and she has all the same things available there. 


When you have a crappy electric provider in the first place, you learn early to prepare for those kinds of things.


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

JeepHammer said:


> Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Snow/Ice Storms, Floods *SHOULD* be what this forum is all about!


I tend to agree. I'm interested in preparing for the highest risks -- defined by likelihood and impact (of course all of it is high stakes). So I want to prepare for the stuff that is most likely to happen for my region / situation. For us in CO that'd be tornadoes, snow/ice storms, floods.

I'm sitting here inside, warm, while it's snowy and < 20° outside. I'm wondering what would happen if power went out. Do I have enough wood to burn in our fireplace?

(Would a natural gas fireplace work in a power outage? Sounds like it might from what you post)

I have some actual firewood, enough for one night. That's it. Scrap lumber wood is probably all treated... not sure that's safe to use. No kerosene / propane heaters. Really no other forms of heat. We have plenty of blankets/clothes. We don't have any other option, really. So... clearly I'm not prepared for that and I think that's a sufficiently likely scenario that I should be.

See, this is why I like this forum -- gets me thinking about risks I haven't really been paying enough attention to.

Slightly OT: JeepHammer, sounds like you are an FSJ guy too? Mine has gotten me through the last couple blizzards including giving rides to healthcare workers and patients through F.E.A.T. here in Denver. Very empowering and rewarding to be prepared enough to be able to help others in hard times.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

I think there's a balance to be struck between your worst fears and what's almost inevitable over the course of a typical lifetime. Statistically, most of us should die of heart attacks, cancer, or respiratory disease, not bullet wounds. I started the post because I'm pretty sure there's more folks out there on this forum who've ignored the very likely to prepare for the improbable. Personally, I think we are looking at a period in history where life as the typical urban dweller could change forever. Those who are less dependent on infrastructure will fare far better and we should all aspire to move in that direction.

That said, Katrina should serve as a worst case scenario for us all. Ten thousand rounds of ammunition didn't do any of them any good, other than send a few idiots to jail when they started shooting at the Coast Guard helicoptors. I think there's a great value in starting with the rule of three's and building your preps around that. You can live three minutes without oxygen and circulation, three hours without protection from the elements in an extreme environment, three days without water, and three weeks without food. While there is some risk that 30 caliber holes in your circulatory system will interfere with number one, when the SHTF, number two better be covered. If you can't protect yourself from the elements and maintain adequate body heat, you won't live very long to use your WMDs.

I live in a small suburban town that has twice in the last five years received 3' snowstorms that essentially closed the roads and shutdown the city for 2-3 days. While we haven't lost power for meaningful periods of time yet, I think it's just a matter of time before the wrong tree branch breaks and my circulator pump on my boiler ceases to work. Jeep, thanks for the idea about using my inverter to keep it running. I'll have to look into where it's wired in and how easy that would be to do without modifications. I already have a deep cycle battery, 2,200 watt Honda generator (not mine, but I've been storing it for a friend for two years, so it's available), 45w solar panel, and 1,200 watt inverter, so running something like that wouldn't be hard at all if I could get the right wires isolated.

Before this suggestion, I was focused on the easier solution of using my 23k BTU kerosene heater, for which I have 30 gallons stored (about 12-18 days at 10-12 hours a day). When I moved into my smaller place, this seemed like overkill for heat production since it couldn't be turned down low enough, so I picked up a 6,000-18,000 BTU propane heater. This will heat my master bath and bedroom to 65F on two 20# propane cylinders for about two weeks, running them 24/7. I already had two cylinders and was thinking about getting another couple to always keep topped off.

If the electric stove is down, I have two multifuel camping stoves and several gallons of white gas. I also have a small butane stove and of course a gas grill (an emergency cooking device that few even remember they have). If I'm trying to conserve fuel, I have enough MREs with heaters to get me and the GF through for 2-3 weeks. The rest of my food stores will take some degree of cooking. If I can power up the bread machine I'll have bread coming out my ears for years.

For water, I'm stocked for about a week. After that I'll have to melt snow, filter downspout water, bike to the stream about a mile from my house or the river about three miles from my house.



Tim said:


> What about war, terrorist attacks, societal collapse?


I'm not worried about an invading army, terrorism only works if you let the fear of it direct your decisions (Bush fell for that one), and societies have always risen and collapsed. Obviously the societal collapse is the one to be concerned about, but the stronger your community, the less the society at-large is critical to your survival. The best insulation and preparation for then end of society is knowing your neighbors, being a friend in the hard times, and working cooperatively to do the best you can with what you have available. Too many survivalists are focused on being a lone wolf, but even the wolves know the better odds of survival lies in the pack.


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

Endurance,
Its clear that we all come from different circumstances. Where I am presently located, not far enough from D.C., I do definately feel the threat of terrorism is far more than the 'fear factor' it induces, there is a definate physical danger as well. Same thing for war. I should move but its easier said than done right now.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Tim said:


> Jeep Hammer,
> With all due respect, I think you are leaving a few things off the list of things to worry about. What about war, terrorist attacks, societal collapse?


You didn't read the orignal post, he was asking about what you would do in an ice/snow storm...
And in that case, I'd light the wood burner out at the river,
Or start the generator in town,
Chain up the old Wagoneer, dig out, and saw up the limbs/trees/poles in the streets & driveways, and help out my neighbors!.

Problem solved.

I know it's not complicated enough for city people, but it's effective and it works without discussion committees, board meetings, feasibility studies, million dollar social/environmental impact studies, and 10 years of analysis...
But it's been working for us 'Country Folk' for the last 100,000 years!
-----------------------------
-----------------------------

As for all the other paranoid crap, you don't sweat what you can't fix...

No war on US shores since 1812,

There is no way for an individual to prepare for a concentrated Nuclear, Chemical or Biological strike.
It takes BILLIONS OF DOLLARS and Years of specialized preparation to even consider surviving a deliberate and concentrated strike,
And it's not much BUT survival since the effort to purify food/water is massive and grossly cost INEFFECTIVE...

*THERE IS N-O-T-H-I-N-G *You as an individual can do about it!
*SO WHY BOTHER WORRYING ABOUT IT? *
(and if you think plastic and duct tape on the windows is going to work like the '*Department of Homeland Scare Tactics*' said you should do is going to do anything, you are a bigger idiot than even I can comprehend!)

I just live where there is very little likely hood of NBC (Nuclear, Chemical, Biological) Strike so I'm pretty well covered...
Not by design, it just happened that way, happy coincidence!

*AND,*
All this ranks right up there with Asteroids hitting the planet,
Gamma Bursts from decaying stars,
Volcanics, 
Tsunamis, 
And all the other crap you simply can't do anything about!

---------------------------

"Societal Collapse" is a figment of uneducated/undereducated and paranoid minds, 
AND, the hucksters trying to get you to CONSUME!!!.

(Y2K, Bird Flu, Terrorists hiding under your bed, Economic 'Collapse', 12-Dec-2012, Jesus is coming.... 
It's all designed to keep you CONSUMING for the next big 'Threat'...)

*There will always be a 'Society' here as long as there is 'Life'*, 
It just won't be the one you are used to,...

And it may be ants or microbes instead of humans, 
But there will always be 'Societies' & 'Relationships' as long as there is life of any kind.

It's like saying 'Save The Planet'...
The planet will always be here, it's not going anywhere for the next 4 or 5 billion years until our yellow dwarf sun supernovas and consumes it...

It might just have returned to the primordial rock in space, or it might have reverted to primordial ooze, but it will still be here after humans!
Pretty arrogant to think you can 'Plan For' or 'Prepare For' events that could extinct a planet!
----------------------------------

Now, *IF* there are any people here that aren't completely paranoid,
And can look forward,
*Make preparations for 'After Oil' now, before the rush...*
It's not going to be the 'Emergency' everyone thinks it is, it's just going to get more expensive to retro fit as oil gets more expensive...
The 'Rush' on solar panels and wind generators is going to drive prices up, and make for a shortage of experienced installers...
(If you were 'Smart', you would start now, educate yourself, and BOOM when the 'Rush' happens!)

At the turn of the 20th Century, most of America (and the rest of the world) was Water, Wind, Sun powered.

Windmills pumped water, sawed lumber, turned tools,
And now they can EASILY make electricity every day, all day long!

Water powered mills made everything from Paper to cook Pans, Cloths to Clocks, Medicine to Machinery.
If we weren't all IDIOTS, we would all have WINDMILLS in our yards!

Personally, I have one small wind generator that is just about perfect for topping off batteries after the solar panels have 'Quick Charged' them.
I have plans for a larger model, and have acquired the tower, but haven't got it up yet...

I'm looking for a mechanical wind mill to pump from my well at the river house. I'm using electrical pump right now, but I'm afraid when we move there full time I'll need that extra current for the household, so I'm looking to go completely mechanical.
---------------------

Vertical axis wind generators and solar panels are viable for even the most sardine boxed suburb shack, so don't tell me it can't be done...
I live in a Suburb with lots of trees, and my solar panels here have already paid for themselves!

SO! As you forecast 'Gloom and DOOM' while you are sitting on your comfy chair, picking away at a computer key borad, with medicine at your fingertips and a national infrastructure there to support you in a day or two if anything happens...

I think of what my grandpa that lived through...
Two world wars, 
The Cold War,
Korea, Viet-Nam, the first Gulf war, 
The great depression,
The 1918 'Spanish' flu epidemic, 
3 Polio Epidemics, 
Two Encephalitis Epidemics,
No Antibiotics for the first 40+ years of his life, when measles and mumps, croup or flu could KILL YOU, 
Having his farm ground & lively hood taken by the state not once, but twice for 'Imminent Domain' projects,

And I think I have it pretty good! Things are DEFINITELY looking up!
---------------------------------------------

*There will ALWAYS BE PEOPLE THAT WHINE & CRY ABOUT WHAT THEY DON'T HAVE...

And there will ALWAYS BE PEOPLE THAT WHINE & CRY ABOUT WHAT 'MIGHT' or 'COULD' GO WRONG...

I do wish they would quit standing in the way of, and distracting the people that are actually getting something done and moving forward!*
--------------------------------------------

*Want to help?*

*STOP BUYING 'CHINA MART' STUFF!
Buy American from your friends and neighbors, even if it costs a little more!*

*WEAN YOURSELF OFF OF PETROLEUM!
Buy Metal instead of plastic when you can, 
Drive fuel efficient vehicles, lean towards electric, CNG, hybrids,
Insulate & Seal Up Your Homes,
Compost & Recycle instead of buying petroleum based fertilizers in petroleum based plastic containers using petroleum powered vehicles to deliver it...*

*POWER YOURSELF FROM RENEWABLES!
If you live in town, Grid Tied (batteryless) Solar.
USE THAT EMPTY, OPEN ROOF SPACE FOR SOME GOOD!
No reason that empty house shouldn't be helping with it's own upkeep all day long! You work, why shouldn't your house!?

If you live in RURAL areas, Wind (mechanical/electric), Solar Electric, Solar Thermal, Micro Hydro (water), ect.
Those big old barn and shed roofs are BEGGING for solar panels!
You have PLENTY of room for windmills! *

It's just a matter if getting your big, fat, bloated, pimple covered white ass off the couch and/or computer and DOING IT!

Grandpa used to say about people that complain and don't do anything,

*"Don't just DO SOMETHING, Stand There and Complain!"*


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## wd4nyl (Nov 26, 2008)

*No war on US shores since 1812,*

Not entirely true. Not counting the Alamo. There was a little skirmish in the 1860's called the Civil War. Indian raids. The Japanese shelling San Diego. Gemans sinking ships in the Gulf. Al Quaida attacking New York & DC.

That said us getting "nuked" doesn't overly disturb me.

*"Societal Collapse" is a figment of uneducated/undereducated and paranoid minds, AND, the hucksters trying to get you to CONSUME!!!."
*

Civil disturbances such as the riots in Watts & Chicago & the breakdown in law and order Post Katrina wasn't "figments of uneducated/undereducated and paranoid minds." It did happen and given the same circumstances, it will happen again.

Living in the country one wouldn't be exposed to this. Living in the city, it's a very real, very near threat.

I live it every day.

And, if today, while law and order is in effect, people are being blown away daily for no reason, as is happening, why should one think things wouldn't quickly turn into a chaotic hell when the next "Katrina scenario" occurs?


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

JeepHammer,

You said: "I do wish they would quit standing in the way of, and distracting the people that are actually getting something done and moving forward!"

So, who's standing your way?

But I did go off topic a little bit, sorry about that.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

Tim said:


> But I did go off topic a little bit, sorry about that.


So rather than rant off topic, answer the question, please.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

wd4nyl said:


> Not entirely true. Not counting the Alamo.
> 
> 
> > Try again, the Alamo was in Texas (Tejas) Province, MEXICO when the Alamo battle was fought.
> ...


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## wd4nyl (Nov 26, 2008)

SheepHammer Speaketh "No war on US shores since 1812"

And further pontificates

*Internal fighting, not foreign attack.
Again, crack a history book before posting
*
Showing that he doesn't hit check his emails before posting

But, I guess he just proves the saying - "*EMPTY BARRELS MAKE THE MOST NOISE*"


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

endurance said:


> So rather than rant off topic, answer the question, please.


I haven't ranted about anything. My browser took me to mid-page and I didn't notice your first post, if I had I probably would not have joined in the discussion.

I can't imagine what kind jerk would take a perverse joy in societal collapse or war, but it ain't me. I'm just trying to prepare for bad things that go beyond ice storms, although that's part of the equation also.

In answer to your question, I have kerosene stoves, gas lanterns, crank and battery powered radios, ample food and water, books and conversation for entertainment and a generator.


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

Way to wildly generalize there JeepHammer. I'd write more but I have to go take ...what was it you said... Ecstasy and go be fat and watch my TV and riot... or something.


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## jebrown (Nov 7, 2008)

No attacks by foreigners on U. S. soil since 1812?
Alaska wasn't a state then but is was U.S. soil when the Japanese invaded Dutch Haarbor in Alaska during World War II. It was a ploy to draw attention from the attack at Midway Island in the Pacific


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## littlechickenranchHen (Dec 30, 2008)

Heat/cooking-pot belly stove and lots of wood already cut.

Lights-flashlights w/ extra batteries. Wind-up/solar dynamo light. Go to bed earlier.

Food-have months worth on hand and chickens laying eggs. Pond-on site for fishing.

Entertainment-board games and cards.

Water- well with hand pump and a bucket. Pond on site. Bleach on hand. Boiling pot for wood burning stove. Hope to buy a solar-shower and Brita water filter pitcher soon.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

endurance said:


> I know there's some perverse joy that's gained by thinking about the end of the world as we know it, when what weapons you've cached will make all the difference, but what if something less dramatic happened? What if something like this happened at your home right now?
> 
> Here's the scenario: There's a severe winter storm that has shut down all the roads, brought down powerlines, and temperatures have plummeted to the single digits. You have no electricity, which, more than likely, means you have no furnace or boiler because they take electricity to run fans and pumps. So, how ready are you for this? What steps have you taken to ensure heat, light, and food for your family for 72 hours and beyond? How long could you hold out before you'd have to secure something beyond what you have at home (fuel, food, water, entertainment)? Just what are you going to do if there's no internet or TV to entertain you? What are the next steps you need to make to prepare if you aren't already prepared?
> 
> Personally, I see this as one of the most likely events for most Americans at any given time. If you really want to throw a wrench in it, what would you do if the storm came in while you were at work? In your car?


In the blizzard of 93,I threw another log in the stove,cracked a bottle of scotch,propped my feet up on a case of MREs,and went to sleep,except for missing three weeks of work,my life barely skipped a beat.

The blizzard DID come while I was at work,the greedy Btards wouldn't turn us out until there was six inches of snow standing on the road.[this is Georgia,nobody born here knows how to drive in snow!]I put my little Buick in granny and putted on home,it took me an hour to drive five miles,but home I went!after that,it was pretty smooth sailing.


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## BigBertha (Dec 30, 2008)

Don't most people have natural gas going to their fireplace and trees / chairs to burn?


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

If you burn the chair where will you sit? I better get a metal chair. Then nobody can burn my seat!


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

Magus said:


> In the blizzard of 93,I threw another log in the stove,cracked a bottle of scotch,propped my feet up on a case of MREs,and went to sleep,except for missing three weeks of work,my life barely skipped a beat.
> 
> The blizzard DID come while I was at work,the greedy Btards wouldn't turn us out until there was six inches of snow standing on the road.[this is Georgia,nobody born here knows how to drive in snow!]I put my little Buick in granny and putted on home,it took me an hour to drive five miles,but home I went!after that,it was pretty smooth sailing.


I remember '93 pretty well, too. I was living in Summit County, Colorado and we had one series of storms that shut down every road in and out of the county for several hours. Department of Transportation was powerless to clear the roads with the equipment they had when a 15' avalanche crossed I-70. However, when we had an ambulance that had to get to Denver one of the local gravel quarries loaned three large front end loaders and in under an hour, they made a single lane through to save the day. I drove through about an hour later and it was crazy. The snow was twice as tall as my car. It felt like I was driving through a tunnel.

@BB:

The gas fireplaces might work if yours has a pilot light rather than electronic ignition. If you turn a valve to turn it on, it'll probably work. If you flip a switch, it probably won't.

As for burning furnature, how many days worth of furnature do you have in your house? What percentage of newer homes have a fireplace that will burn wood? Things to think about.


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## jebrown (Nov 7, 2008)

I agree that the end of the world is not coming JeepHammer. Society collapse, more end of the world paranoia. There is no rapid decline in society.
A terrorist attack is a strong possibility.
Severe weather is a given at all times of the year. Year in and year out no matter what state you live in. I live in the heart of tornado alley yet all lower 48 states have been hit by a tornado. California is well know for earthquakes yet the largest earthquake in the lower 48 states happened in New Madrid Missouri there were a total of three just weeks apart back in the 1800’s.
People need to look at the frequency of severe weather as compared to riots, societal collapse or terrorist attacks.
One year ago this month Oklahoma got hit with the worst ice storm ever for Oklahoma. A limb from a pecan tree iced up and broke loose. It took out my circuit breaker box. It was about two months before I could afford to have it repaired. We had gas for heat, not dependant on electricity for heat. We used candles and kerosene lamps to see by. A generator provide for a couple of lights. At night it also powered our TV and satellite box. My 15 year old stepdaughter had never seen a mechanical can opener. She never did get the hang of using it. 
Somebody thought that was not enough so the drain line for my toilet broke. Didn’t want that flowing under my house so I had a plumber come out for a look see. There was a missing floor joist that was to be holding up the tub and toilet. Had to have that replaced along with a lot of the floor too. So we did the trash bag and five gallon bucket routine for awhile.
If another weather event comes along I feel that we will survive. Plenty of quilts and sleeping bags. Enough food and water and other essentials too.
I have a van with two gas tanks. If weather threatens I fill both of them without waiting to see what may hit. It has a heater that will roast your ass as well as room for survival gear and room to sleep. Not what some of you would consider but it will work for us if the house is not habitable. I also have a large charcoal grill a small hibachi sized one. A two burner camp stove. I have cooked on these stoves for over 40 years. 
As a hobby I love to storm chase so I have spent many a night sleeping in my van. I am prepared for everything gleaned from years of disaster experience. Although I am self-sufficient now I still continue to add to my stash. You will have enough only when there is not a need for more.
Yes some areas are closer to possible targets for terrorists. There is an Air Force Base at the edge of town that could be targeted. They have already caught people of questionable activity snooping around out side the perimeter fence.
Can this base be attacked by terrorists, of course? The likely hood is low the chances of severe weather guaranteed. 
After 22 years of disaster work and still providing disaster preparedness training, it stretches the imagination when it comes to understanding what peoples priorities are and why.


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## WakingUp (Dec 30, 2008)

Jeep Hammer <<No war on US shores since 1812>>

I beg to differ. What about the Civil War? A MASSIVE disruptive, incredibly violent conflict - societal and economic breakdown.

Not to mention the labor "events" of the 1920's and 1930's.

We do not need a cataclysmic event (meteors, biological, terrorist attacks, etc.) to set the whole thing in motion.

At the moment I am working on transcribing my g-g-g-grandfather's civil war diary and based upon the entries, I can tell you, that just 150 years ago (just the lifetimes of two really old people) - this country experienced something so pole shifting that our little attempts at "preparedness" seen absolutely laughable.

I lived through Hurricane Fran in Raleigh - when we had no power, no water, and no services for weeks here in the metro area of Raleigh, that they had to call in the National Guard to ensure order. That lasted just two weeks. I cannot imagine what would happen if these people didn't have their American Idol fix for a month or more... another Civil War might result.

Don't underestimate the power of "loss of routine". I see people daily at work who are so internet and TV addicted (myself) that they may just go bonkers if their broadband went out for any length of time.

Follow Sun Tsu - never underestimate what you may encounter.

(Of course I am totally unprepared, so I am speaking from a completely academic position.) My goal is to stay one step ahead of the sheep curve.

--C.


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## Washkeeton (Oct 18, 2008)

endurance said:


> I know there's some perverse joy that's gained by thinking about the end of the world as we know it, when what weapons you've cached will make all the difference, but what if something less dramatic happened? What if something like this happened at your home right now?
> 
> Here's the scenario: There's a severe winter storm that has shut down all the roads, brought down powerlines, and temperatures have plummeted to the single digits. You have no electricity, which, more than likely, means you have no furnace or boiler because they take electricity to run fans and pumps. So, how ready are you for this? What steps have you taken to ensure heat, light, and food for your family for 72 hours and beyond? How long could you hold out before you'd have to secure something beyond what you have at home (fuel, food, water, entertainment)? Just what are you going to do if there's no internet or TV to entertain you? What are the next steps you need to make to prepare if you aren't already prepared?
> 
> Personally, I see this as one of the most likely events for most Americans at any given time. If you really want to throw a wrench in it, what would you do if the storm came in while you were at work? In your car?


Ok if I were in my car... Im about 6 miles to either work or town one in one direction and the other in the other direction. I have a 4x4 and have traveled in sever incliment weather, not really worried about getting places or even out of my drive unless the snow gets above 1.5 feet. I am now presently driving through deep drifts till I can plow out. We do the no electricity thing quite often... Ok so with that said I need to get the generator out of the shed and warm it up in one of the back rooms of the house... single digits is a heat wave here considering Fairbanks is at 40 below right now and we are at almost -20 with wind gusts to 50 mph bringing the wind chill to 60 below or there abouts... brrr chill brr chill... With the exception of water I am covered in wood heat, for at least a week or possibly more... I am good for games for months on end... good for food(boring as it may be for the time) for at least a month. Actually this week we just started organizing and writing down pantry needs.... I did a large buy this past week while I was off restocking my pantry with things that were low or missing... With my water I will do what we did in the bush... I will disconect the sink and run the gray water into a bucket while washing dishes... then I will use that to flush the toilet. Not pretty but it works... Showers will be limited to short 5 gal shots with a camp shower..or spit baths--heated on my non elec propane stove.. So considering I will have the ability to drive here for give or take possibly 2 hours... I will fill one empty propane bottle to make sure I have enough... I will get probably 20 to 25--5 gal jugs filled with water for drinking and cooking(showers, dishes).. I can melt that wonderful snow drift that I have here to both wash dishes with and if necessary water animals with or even shower with.. I have about 2 full acres of snow that is just aching to be used up. The drifts wont be the soft pack where you figure one inch of snow= one inch of water.. the hard pack works out better... little sandy and gritty... but that is why I haul drinking and cooking water. We would be fine for about a week if not maybe longer.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Endurance, your scenario would be an easy transition for us. Actually, we've been through it in reality.
I would lit off the wood stove, which is located in the basement. Either we would close off half of the basement, therefore forcing more warmth from the stove upstairs, or we might decide to relocate to the basement and stay.

For light, we have a choice. There are kerosene lantern and lamps as well as Coleman lanterns. We also have an ample supply of flashlights and spare batteries.

Food preparation could be done on the woodstove, Coleman camp stoves, or on the gas grill outside. (I always maintain two extra 20lb propane cylinders for the grill.)

I have a genny that will allow me to run both frig's and the freezer enough so that the contents stay cold/frozen. The genny will also allow me to run the well pump for water. 

Once we're set up, I'll begin checking on our neighbors to see if they are getting by and/or if there is anything I can do to help out.


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## River (Feb 24, 2009)

We just went through an ice storm here, last month. I was without power for a week. It was quiet, except for the trees snapping and crashing down all the time, but otherwise? Apart from being bored, I was plenty warm (gas heat) and I just stored my food in a box outside of the apartment door. Nobody stole it! lol 

I know that I'm incredibly lucky, though, that I had the heat. It would have been tough without it, but I would have managed - lucky for me also, this isn't my first ice storm so I had some experience to draw on in how to help cold-proof the apartment. I had a roof, and heat, and food, plenty of books to read, batteries and radios, candles, a sketchbook begging for attention, and I was pretty fine. I was ready.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

We could really be in store here for some problems with our drought. Esp. because our temperatures are breaking records everyday. It's supposed to be low 70's and it's been 90 everyday this week. Our aquifer is drying up fast.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

Dean said:


> We could really be in store here for some problems with our drought. Esp. because our temperatures are breaking records everyday. It's supposed to be low 70's and it's been 90 everyday this week. Our aquifer is drying up fast.


What got to me this winter was the wind along the front range of Colorado. Wind sucks the moisture out of the ground and trees. We're at 50% of normal precip along the front range right now and with the wind drying things out, it's likely to be a very nasty wildfire season.

California is another story. That's a food crisis in the making. Too bad you can't stock up on fresh veggies... oh, wait, you can. it's called gardening.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Already have pea,s carrot,s lettuce, onion,s cabbage in the ground. As soon as the ground drie,s enough 150 lbs a tater,s a going in. Can,t wait for two leaf, morel,s and polk to come up.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

We have a motorhome that's fully fueled with diesel for the engine and propane for cooking (and the generator which is seldom used), I installed four 100 watt solar panels on it's roof, installed a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter/charger that uses four 225 amp hour six volt golf cart batteries. If for any reason I loose power all I have to do is pull the motorhome out of it's shed and isolate the power from the power company line and feed the solar system power to our home. If we had to we could live with just the stored food in the motorhome for at least two months. Other than that all we heat our home with is a wood stove which has surfaces that could be used for cooking. Our cook stove is running on propane, I keep enough propane on hand that we could last a year without refills. Our spring feeds a 1100 gallon cistern that gravity feeds our home and I have two Baygen radios that have solar power, clockworks spring powered generator,one has rechargable batteries that can charge when it's not being used. Best thing is that we have neighbors we love and we watch out for each other. Better to be prepared than not in consideration of storms, floods, fires or earthquakes, or God forbid, war by terrorists.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Viking said:


> We have a motorhome that's fully fueled with diesel for the engine and propane for cooking (and the generator which is seldom used), I installed four 100 watt solar panels on it's roof, installed a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter/charger that uses four 225 amp hour six volt golf cart batteries.
> 
> [.. deleted ..]
> 
> Better to be prepared than not in consideration of storms, floods, fires or earthquakes, or God forbid, war by terrorists.


Sounds like you have a good system setup. I am about 1/2 way there with my setup so far. What can you tell us about your solar-systems? I have some questions about the Carmanah systems (there is a thread here about it) and completing solar-for-the-house.

Currently I have 12-volt deep-cycle batteries hooked to portable solar-panels wired to 12-volt goodies (lights, stereo, small inverter, etc) that I use regularly. The small inverter has enough capability to keep my laptops and portable DVD player charged / running easily.

I am planning to expand my solar / battery system when I move out of my current house to power my new place fully on 12v LED lighting.


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## Johncarter (Mar 29, 2009)

at my house I have a good sleeping bag propane camp stove a few weeks worth of dry/canned goods a small rocket stove(lets you cook a lot with just twigs) and a couple of 5 gallon containers of distilled water at the inlaws every thing listed above but about 6X plus 2 cords of wood(we had 3 but burned one over the winter) 2 generators and some(not enough )fuel for them

I kinda like the Idea of being prepared for a Zombie attack not that I really believe that there is going to be an outbreak of the living dead but if you try and get ready for one you have your bases covered for whatever does come right now I'm no where near as prepared as I should be but am working on the skills and supplies as I can


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

all I can do to prepare is put in food and some water, since i live in town and in a one bedroom apt. I dont have a lot of room, but its surprising how much food I am getting in here. I was storing food in mason jars but I am moving the food out of those jars and into mylar bags or foodsaver bags from my vacuum sealer cause the jars are heavy and take up a lot of room. I will sell my jars this spring at a lawn sale. well, most of them anyway. my mylar bags full of food are easy to store. 
other than food and water, I am not worrying about anything else cept I have flashlights and batteries.
sometimes I wish i lived in a place in the country, but you know, for me it seems a bit scary to live alone without neighbours. If I lived alone in a place in the woods I would be easily victimized by any criminal and no one would hear my screams, lol.
those of you who do live out in the boonies, make sure you have safety precautions, watchdogs, guns, i dont know...


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## Lucy (Mar 27, 2009)

Mary, you are selling your jars ? I keep canning, and canning, and canning away. More variety of foods this way. Meats, chicken, and fruits and vegetables. I just canned potatoes and then beef yesterday. I find it so handy to have foods ready cooked. I use the beef or chicken for casseroles, burritos, all sorts of things.


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

I dont can, I only use my excalibur dehydrator to dry veggies and fruits, and then I store them.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

endurance said:


> I know there's some perverse joy that's gained by thinking about the end of the world as we know it, when what weapons you've cached will make all the difference, but what if something less dramatic happened? What if something like this happened at your home right now?
> 
> Here's the scenario: There's a severe winter storm that has shut down all the roads, brought down powerlines, and temperatures have plummeted to the single digits. You have no electricity, which, more than likely, means you have no furnace or boiler because they take electricity to run fans and pumps. So, how ready are you for this? What steps have you taken to ensure heat, light, and food for your family for 72 hours and beyond? How long could you hold out before you'd have to secure something beyond what you have at home (fuel, food, water, entertainment)? Just what are you going to do if there's no internet or TV to entertain you? What are the next steps you need to make to prepare if you aren't already prepared?
> 
> Personally, I see this as one of the most likely events for most Americans at any given time. If you really want to throw a wrench in it, what would you do if the storm came in while you were at work? In your car?


Been there in the blizzard of 93 dude.
My 1973 Buick[gods I miss that car!!] plowed through the nightmare at 3 MPH,I got home,stoked the wood stove,oiled the looter repellant and got drunk,stayed that way two weeks.and every time I sobered up I laughed at the dummies who had electric only,tossed another burgur on the grill,and lived like the king I was.flushing the trap was a bitch after the water went off,but god made trash bags and 5 gallon cans for a reason.melting a can full of snow is retarded y'know?Stay stocked and stoked and disaster is somebody else's problem.LOL

The TP and smokes just had run low when the roads opened,I celebrated with a carton of USA gold,a case of Budweiser and asswipe.LOL


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## kettleMan (Dec 4, 2008)

Magus said:


> Been there in the blizzard of 93 dude.
> My 1973 Buick[gods I miss that car!!] plowed through the nightmare at 3 MPH,I got home,stoked the wood stove,oiled the looter repellant and got drunk,stayed that way two weeks.and every time I sobered up I laughed at the dummies who had electric only,tossed another burgur on the grill,and lived like the king I was.flushing the trap was a bitch after the water went off,but god made trash bags and 5 gallon cans for a reason.melting a can full of snow is retarded y'know?Stay stocked and stoked and disaster is somebody else's problem.LOL
> 
> The TP and smokes just had run low when the roads opened,I celebrated with a carton of USA gold,a case of Budweiser and asswipe.LOL


HAHA great story, Magus!


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

The 1973 Buick would be the ultimate survival machine. Isn't that the car that Ash used in Army Of Darkness?


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

yes indeedy!But I had mine before the movie came out.you know,if I hadn't sold the motor,I bet the damn thing would STILL be running somewhere!

The motor was re-bored to go in a race car!


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Where I live, our Government turned on its citizens, Kent State! As for surviving for 72 hrs. We were snowed in for 3 days, our kitchen and family room are one room. The fire place kept us warm and we cooked on it. I have also purchased my wife and kids nice Western Mountaineering bags, hers and mine zip together. We weren't able to shower but were able to wash up a little and had enough drinking water, but the supply was running low. There was enough canned food in the pantry, and the food in the frig and freezer was put outside in coolers. I could have used about 20 more gallons of gas for the generator though. We had to use it sparingly. We also did some cooking outside on the gas grill. The neighborhood we live in is quite congenial and we got together and helped each other out. We also took care of our elderly neighbors while their family members couldn't make it to see them.


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## Albertan (Apr 8, 2009)

I'd have no trouble at all at home in the severe winter storm scenario - I've got firewood, water, and food to last me several weeks. I'd probably run out of water first, but I could always bring in snow and let it melt for drinking water. If it hit while I was at work, it's only a 3km walk to get home, a little less if I cut across a farmer's field. So I'd be okay there too. There's also a snowmobile and large fuel tank at the shop, so I could navigate around on it to go check on my wife's parents.

If in my car when it hit, I'd be screwed unless I could manage to walk home or find help from others. I wouldn't be able to stay warm enough for three days. I've driven through some pretty severe snowstorms before though, where other cars were at a standstill, so I'd try to power my way through it if at all possible and get home or someplace safer.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Being stuck in a car is very scary. I'm in a big city so I'm always close to some kind of shelter. Out in the boonies you could freeze to death quickly.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I keep a styrofoam cooler with 8 (3600 calorie) Datrex Bars, honey & butter condiment packets from KFC, 2 100hr 'candles' (good for melting snow) & a metal cup, iodine water treatment tabs, rock candy, slim jims and various other food items (including 5 gallons of water). There's an electric blanket & 4 of the metalized 'space blankets' to keep warm with, I figure that if I'm completely stranded in the car with 3 friends we should be OK for 5 days, more if less people are along to eat the food. I've purposely slept in the car in the winter but hhave never been stranded... & the mental aspect of that definitely makes a difference.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

sailaway said:


> Where I live, our Government turned on its citizens, Kent State! .


Sailaway, I agree with you on everything except this comment. As a retired Army Officer, I 've never run around killing civilians. The National Guard (which is made up of members of your community-your neighbors) were on the grounds that day, requested by your Mayor and Chief of Police. It was not some grand government conspiracy. The Police a day earlier and the Guard later lost control of lawful order and were provoked and used excessive force which resulted in death or murder depending on your point of view. To happen again, the soldiers should not have been called in to do a Police task. They should not have been provoked by students in head to head standoffs, and they should not have fired, at all. Students thought they had blanks. So they thought they could poke a dog and not get bit? I would hope that had I been there, on either side, I would have just walked away and called it a day before stupidity set in. Blame anyone you want, it is your right, but to say the Government set out to purposley kill students that day is outright false. It was and always will be a needless trajedy. It should be remembered and lessons learned from it. The Government, aside from your local leaders, did not turn on your neighbors. May the lost have eternal peace. Lessons have been learned.


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## usafa93 (Nov 21, 2009)

JeepHammer said:


> "Societal Collapse" is a figment of uneducated/undereducated and paranoid minds,
> AND, the hucksters trying to get you to CONSUME!!!.


Disagree. Three days before Lehman collapsed, a client and I had lunch in Mid Town Manhattan, and weighed the probability of it happening (we both owned Lehman bonds). This client is extremely smart, and extremely successful (if I put his name here, you could Google him and make your own assessment), and we were in agreement. If the Feds let Lehman collapse (which we did not think they would do), it had the very real possibility of triggering a global economic collapse. His words: "people wont be able to buy bread."

The rest is history. I've never seen the government move so quickly. We were on the brink of total disaster. Yes, they were able to stop it, that time. To think that they will be able to everytime "is a figment of uneducated/undereducated."


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## usafa93 (Nov 21, 2009)

endurance said:


> What steps have you taken to ensure heat, light, and food for your family for 72 hours and beyond?


72 hours is a joke. Okay, infants, life-support humans, and certain types of pets (e.g. a reef tank) - a different story, but for the majority of human beings in a house, 72 hours is nothing. Even a few weeks is extremely managable, albeit less than comfortable.

Wrap yourself in a blanket, go to sleep, and wake up 3 days later. If you have a flashlight, a few cans of vegetables, and a can opener, you'll be in pure luxury. Plenty of water in those toilets to keep you alive and feeling fine.

The occasional, prolonged power outage is not about survival, it is about the level of comfort one wants to experience.


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## Icbones (Dec 24, 2009)

JeepHammer said:


> NOT A PROBLEM!
> Down at the river house, we aren't on the 'Grid' anyway.
> 
> AND...
> ...


Not to mention labour unrest. How long do you think it would take before stores and supermarkets were emptied in the case of say, a strike by truckers?


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Icbones said:


> Not to mention labour unrest. How long do you think it would take before stores and supermarkets were emptied in the case of say, a strike by truckers?


The only truckers that need to strike are the tanker yankers, they will stop everything including those who would go looting. Jimmy Hoffa was done away with because of this, he could have been more powerful than our President.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

no problem here hardly worth talking about 

-plenty of food..several months worth then we would switch over to the freeze dried mountain house food 
-natural gas cook top we can use without power.
-propane camp stove 25# propane 
-MSR multi-fuel stove runs on just about any fuel... white gas, gasoline, diesel, 
-plenty of wood for the fireplace
-tons of winter clothing, down blankets, sleeping bags if needed 
-2 -4x4 vehicles extra fuel, chains & studded tires 
-plenty of tools chainsaw, shovels, 
-plenty of spare batteries & rechargeable batteries w/ solar recharger 
-advanced first aid kit & meds for about a year or so. asprin, cold ,flue, some -antibiotics,pain killers 
-vitamins 
-Lots of guns and ammo 

the only thing we don't have i would like is off the grid power and water and those are the two things that keep me awake at night


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

That's happened to us twice already this winter. We have a wood burner and plenty of food/water. Not really a huge problem. We were snowed in for 4 days in December and three of those days we had no power. Candles, blankets, flashlights, a little rum, good books and good company make it quite pleasurable actually.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

yep, it's a nice break for the routine we didn't get a good dose of show this winter  last winter we ran the wood stove and cook some chili, chicken soup, bake home made bread good family time.


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## MasterSergeantUSAF (Mar 16, 2010)

*All great opinions*

My Lady and I have, for the most part given up on owning dirt for the time being. A 40 foot diesel powered boat is our home now. 3000 amp/hrs in batteries, solar recharging, wind generator, 5k Northern Lights diesel genset, 250 gal/day watermaker, 1800 days of foodstores (not all of it aboard, of course), vitamins/minerals/medicines/first aid/surgical kit, months of dogfood for the puppy, extensive fishing equipment, electric heat, propane heat, propane stove/oven with 1 year supply of propane aboard, diesel filtration/polishing to keep the engine and genset running clean, 1600 miles range, hurricane anchors, VHF/HF/SSB radios, 1250 DVDs in our movie collection, board games, chess, dominos, Tasers, pepper spray, baseball bats, 9mm, 12 guage, .45, .380, .223, .308....possibly may seem excessive....and the whole shebang is dependent upon fossil fuel and french fry oil....probably should have bought a sailboat....still, we are very self-sufficient and can take on California fires, floods, droughts, earthquake, government....just turn the key and leave for a while. We also have a 30' travel trailer, fully stocked as well. A 4x4 diesel truck to pull it (there's that fossil fuel issue again) and half a dozen steel shipping containers each containing a minimum 365 day supply of foodstores and water. All located in different locations, easily accessible and completey camoflagued from prying eyes.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

My sailboat is set up like your power boat only 10' shorter Mastersargeant. Do you have bicycles? We need to acquire more freeze dried food.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I see the op's reason for asking, but in truth I doubt there are many in this forum that would really be lost if this happened...

BUT..I have 2 2000 watt Honda gens...the old drafty house has two fire places and a wood burnng cook stove in the kitchen.. City water but a nice clean water creek just a few yards away and a nice Burky water cleaner...and a years supply of food and enough books to build a house..

AND!! some "Who Shot John" in case of a Snow Snake bite or even worse!!! Ice Worms!!!!...


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## TheUrbanSurvivalist (Mar 23, 2010)

Seriously? It would be like a mini vacation to me.


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## Rourke (Jul 23, 2010)

JeepHammer said:


> NOT A PROBLEM!
> Down at the river house, we aren't on the 'Grid' anyway.
> 
> AND...
> ...


I think it is a bit presumpuous of yourself to call people that consider and plan for events of a higher magnitude than "Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Snow/Ice Storms, Floods " paranoids.

Many of us than plan for "end of world" events do so as that is somethingg that might/could happen. In the midst of our preps - we are at the samee time preparing for lesser events. If you are prepared for an EMP attack - I suspect that a large and significant wintter storm will be handled.

We should as survivalists join together and move in the samee direction - not reduce ourselves to namecalling.

Rourke


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Right, Rourke. We're on the same side here, regardless of where we are on the preparedness spectrum, and why or what we believe. 

If I prepare for an EMP and instead we get an earthquake, I'll be in pretty good shape and can extend a hand to my neighbors. If my neighbor prepared for a power outtage (such as from a winter snowstorm) and we get an earthquake, he still has means to help himself, at least to a point. 

Even short-term prep supplies can help during the transition to a longer situation, so I don't negate the worth of those who prepare only for temporary events. 

If nothing else, they have their foot in the door. Maybe when they get their BOBs done in case of a hurricane evacuation or flood, they'll look for something else to do, and next thing you know, they have 2 weeks of food and water put back. And so it could go.

So, to all my fellow forum friends: Great job!, whereve you are in your preps! Keep it up! :congrat: :beercheer: :2thumb:


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