# Vehicle setup



## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

So let's assume all licensing is taken care of. 
Let's assume that cost needs to stay under $2,000 for one vehicle setup.
It runs off the power of the car (2000 Saturn) 
Now to the questions:
1. Is there any kind of radio on any bands that would allow for up to 50 mile connection without use of a repeater. 
2. Will this same radio reach 20 miles in city setup, thus having high rise buildings, banks, and tons of other interference. 
3. What kind of antenna would be needed?
4. This needs to be as multifunction as possible. 
5. Overall setup would be duplicated in multiple vehicles and being able to have extended ranges, such as being able to hit 50 miles out without a repeater. What ever band is needed to hit that is fine. 

Thank you for the assistance on this matter. 
I will have a home base station, mobile units (vehicles), then each mobile with personal level comms as well. Currently my biggest concern is the vehicle setups and making sure I can hit the ranges I need.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

There are radios that cover from 70cm -160m such as the old icon 706 series. 2 m is probably most common in a car but that distance is affected by curvature of the earth, good for closer contacts around 10 or less, where I live on a mountain and to repeaters I can do 70 miles, saying that to make the point about obstacles like the earth not transmission capability. On the radio you are talking about it would have to have UHF, VHF, and HF. It would probably require two antennas, these radios normally have two jacks one for VHF and UHF and another for HF. The HF antenna is where it gets more difficult but people do it all the time but I haven't yet. Those antennas go from around $600 to over $2000. Sometimes the tricky part is not bouncing over 10 miles. I haven't messed with HF much in a car.
All that to say I have a Chinese radio in my truck I like that does 70CM 2m, 6m and 10m. I would think 6m and 10 m would be effective in the 10 mile range. Some people talk around the world on 10m. Keep in mind cb is 11m limited to 5 watts where a ham is around 50 watts.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Didn't mean to send it yet, this is my radio that I like a lot but haven't used 6m or 10m so I can't vouch for it there.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KG...s=tyt+9800&dpPl=1&dpID=41OMy5T4UyL&ref=plSrch


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Sorry you said 50 miles not 10 but the basics are the same


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

Here in New Hampshire, I've just about given up on any kind of "mobile" communications with that kind of range. We just have so many hills and so much woodland that anything remotely HF just gets clobbered within a couple miles.

I've got buddies with VERY high-powered mobiles and communications between them and their respective bases is still spotty at best from farther than 15 or 20 miles.

One of the things I experimented with years ago, back when I was with an emergency radio team in the Southern states, was (what was then called) a "Land Station". Essentially, it was a temporary base station. In one instance, we simply hoisted a quarter-wave up into a tree by throwing a rope as high over a branch as we could and pulled the antenna, bottom first, up into the tree.

We were up on a hill and using old Citizens Band on SSB powered by a motorcycle battery. We "accidentally" got a consistent conversation from just a tad over 100 miles, from a standard base station. We managed to hoist our antenna just a bit more than 30 feet (to the branch the rope went over) and neither of us was running any heat. We talked to a couple mobile units (also strictly stock) out to about 30 miles, but it was still a tad rough.

One thing that became rather quickly evident here in New Hampshire is that the higher the frequency, the more "line-of-sight" reliable communications becomes. From one end of Lake Winnipesaukee to the other (about 20 miles) you can communicate using a pair of stock FRS bubble-pack radios from Wally-World.... providing, of course, it's not tourist season and you don't have a bunch of friggin' brats using the same freqs. In the middle of the Pemigewasset Wilderness, you'll be lucky to talk to someone on the same trail 1/2 mile away. Vehicle to vehicle, if your on the Kancamagus Highway through the White Mountain National Forest, those same bubble-packs will lose each other when one of you goes around the corner (lot's of nice high-frequency signal-killing high-moisture-content trees, and granite).

The bugaboo is that word we all like to use (even if we don't actually say it); "reliable".... We can do 50-mile communications with CBs and GMRS hand-helds.... on a "daily need" non-emergency basis.... but "reliable" implies life-critical.... I've given up on that and have elected non-electronic measures to collect up my important folk.

If anybody has an honest-to-God for real and for true VIABLE, AFFORDABLE and REALISTIC method of RELIABLE communications during a critical event, then for real and for true, honest-to-God, please let me know.... I'm truly not being sarcastic, I genuinely would love to have such a method of communications. I've just never been able to find one.

Peace and health to all.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm no expert with HF by any means but it does seem that to be able to just "dial up" someone could be difficult since you are for the most part bouncing the signal off the atmosphere.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

sgtusmc98 said:


> I'm no expert with HF by any means but it does seem that to be able to just "dial up" someone could be difficult since you are for the most part bouncing the signal off the atmosphere.


Near Vertical Incidence Skywave........ Applicable only to HF though. http://www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Shammua said:


> So let's assume all licensing is taken care of.
> Let's assume that cost needs to stay under $2,000 for one vehicle setup.
> It runs off the power of the car (2000 Saturn)
> Now to the questions:
> ...


All of the amature radios I've looked at, other than handi talkies, require a 12v DC input.

1. Yes, though terrain and atmospheric conditions are large factors.
2. Highly unlikely.
3. It depends. An antenna suitable for the 2m band won't work well for much else. Further, you may need a directional antenna in some situations and not in others.
4. I'm not sure what your meaning of "multifunction" is, so I'll assume you mean multiple frequencies. There are transceivers which RX/TX on multiple bands, from UHF/VHF to HF. You'll need antennas for each band, although you can typically use one antenna for multiple HF bands(with some limitations).


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Folks, radio waves are very similar to light in that range is largely determined by elevation: whether or not you can "see" your target. If I had an EXTREMELY bright laser that could shine a spot on the moon, I still wouldn't be able to hit a target on the ground more than 6 or 7 miles away if we're both at sea level because the curvature of the planet itself blocks the light. Radio waves work pretty much the same way.

High frequency (HF) amateur radio frequencies are an exception in that they can bounce off the ionosphere more easily than VHF or UHF and greater range can often be obtained. But if you're looking for 50 miles, that can actually be a problem. HF is great for reaching people 200+ miles away but not often so good for reaching people closer than that. (It can be done, but your antenna placement and orientation as well as atmospheric conditions play a big role.)

VHF (2 meter) and UHF (70 centimeter) bands can reach pretty far. The higher the wattage, the longer they can go IF AND ONLY IF the target is not blocked by obstructions like a planet. Earth's curvature prevents you from reaching out more than a few miles unless you and/or the person you're trying to talk to is elevated significantly. You can get a mobile unit that will put out 100-200W in both VHF and UHF for a few hundred dollars and with an amateur Technician license (pretty easy to get), you can legally use it.

What you could do is set up a private repeater or a series of repeaters (perfectly legal) between your two locations to extend your range. There are mobile radios that can act as repeaters, too.


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## dademoss (Aug 6, 2011)

zombieresponder said:


> Near Vertical Incidence Skywave........ Applicable only to HF though. http://www.qsl.net/wb5ude/nvis/


+1

The right antenna is crucial, as is the right frequency choice.

Ohio ARES just completed an exercise, and it was the only way to talk to from Cincinnati to Columbus without a repeatervract:


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

*Vehicle radio*



sgtusmc98 said:


> Didn't mean to send it yet, this is my radio that I like a lot but haven't used 6m or 10m so I can't vouch for it there.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00KG...s=tyt+9800&dpPl=1&dpID=41OMy5T4UyL&ref=plSrch


Yes the TYT is a very nice radio for the money, I bought the same radio but only the single band 2 meter vhf version.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

*Vehicle radio*



Shammua said:


> So let's assume all licensing is taken care of.
> Let's assume that cost needs to stay under $2,000 for one vehicle setup.
> It runs off the power of the car (2000 Saturn)
> Now to the questions:
> ...


You might want to consider a CB radio modified for "Freeband" operation with a 100 watt linear amplifier and a stainless steel 105" whip antenna. This equipment would be illegal but in a SHTF situation the communications would be reliable because "Freeband" is quiet above and below CB channels 1 & 40. You could also get your General ham ticket and operate legally on 10 meter with power. 50 miles would be difficult at best but this might be the best you could do without a repeater. https://radiofreeq.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/survivalist-ssb-cb-freeband-channel-frequency-list/


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## jeffreyclay (Jun 17, 2011)

dademoss said:


> +1
> 
> The right antenna is crucial, as is the right frequency choice.
> 
> Ohio ARES just completed an exercise, and it was the only way to talk to from Cincinnati to Columbus without a repeatervract:


I saw the announcement for that test. I even had my rig tuned to the 20 meter frequency listed for the entire test. Never heard a peep. In my part of Virginia we have rolling hills and small mountains. 10 meter would be what I'd try first. As some of the other posters have said, at 50 miles it's pretty much a crap shoot for anything mobile.:ditto:


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

I have been learning a lot about HAM and have since made these conclusions for my original post.

my multifunction I was wanting is best expressed in the Yaesu Ft-8900R, it is a quad band, repeater, and can do up to 50 watts on the higher bands.
As was stated and I now understand better that if I needed to really reach out a distance like 50 miles without hitting a repeater, then I need to have packed and be ready to stop and setup an antenna that would be likely to get high enough to help with line of sight type issues. (hope that makes sense) Same goes for 20 miles or across a densely populated area.

I'm actually down to making the purchases and getting off my rear end and taking my tests for HAM so I can use these legally and have the actual experience before the SHTF.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Check out the Yeast FT857. IMO it is a more capable radio. Covers all out 70cM, 2 &6 meters, plus the full HF spectrum. Size wise it is perfectly suited for mobile use.


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