# Generator - Natural Gas or Propane when SHTF



## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm doing it. I'm going to buy a Generator. It is a standby generator with an automatic transfer switch. Its rated 6kw/7kw depending on fuel source. Either way it is enough to run what I need and continue running our daycare with cooking, laundry, water heating, heating, etc... I need to pick between my existing natural gas supply or throwing a 500 pound tank out in the back yard. It is pretty easy to convert back and forth (less than an hour of work). I'd love your input!

Natural Gas
+Available (I use it for my major appliances)
+Cheaper
+Doesn't take up any room
+Indefinite run time
+Only pay for fuel as needed
-Only get 6kw instead of 7kw
-Possible (though unlikely) of outage

Propane
+7kw instead of 6kw
+No outage possible
+Can run 2-3 weeks on 500lb tank
-Pay for fuel upfront
-Takes up yard space
-More expensive to run 
-More upfront work to trench line 25+ feet

More likely / less serious: I feel like NG would be great for the typical situation of power going out for a few hours to a few days, where natural gas supply remains intact.

Less likely / more serious: On the other hand, propane would be the fuel of choice if mass SHTF occured where there is a prolonged power outage or natural gas lines are destroyed.

What a pickle!


----------



## Navajo (Mar 4, 2013)

need power to keep natural gas supplied in the lines...after the residual pressure is gone , no more natural gas... 
Might be better off with a large propane tank.


----------



## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I would go with propane & put my stove on it. Also, I'd advise putting your propane on auto fill service where they keep it full. 

In the event of SHTF, you would use natural as until it was gone, then convert over to your propane. If you only use it to cook with & are conservative with it, a full tank will last you maybe 9 months. Perhaps you could heat the house, or a portion of the house, with wood instead? Then you'd have a renewable source for heat & cooking.


----------



## Cast-Iron (Nov 8, 2013)

Either fuel should allow you to bridge the gap if or when you experience a temporary electrical outage. In my opinion, it would take a major catastrophe for you to be without electricity and natural gas at the same time. If that seems likely to you, than opt for propane. 

Is 6 or 7 kW the surge or continual rating? You won't be able to simultaneously run big demand electrical appliances like electric water heaters, electric dryers, ranges, or ovens. with just 7 kW. But it should be ample power for a reasonable amount of lighting, refrigeration, entertainment centers, electric fan for a gas furnace, and a microwave oven. There may even be enough capacity for one or two small air conditioning units. 

You need to limit your total draw to whatever your continual rating is for the generator you're using. Remember watts = volts (either 115 or 230 in the US) times amps. So a refrigerator on a typical 115 outlet rated at 5 amps would need 575 watts to operate. It's start-up demand would be higher, but that is what the surge capacity of the generator is for. 

I would simply calculate the combined electrical requirements for my critical appliance needs and size my generator accordingly. Personally I also like to limit peak demand to no more than 90% of rated capacity. Don't forget you are required to install a power transfer switch to isolate your generator from the power grid.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hawkmiles said:


> More likely / less serious: I feel like NG would be great for the typical situation of power going out for a few hours to a few days, where natural gas supply remains intact. *This is a good plan*
> Less likely / more serious: On the other hand, propane would be the fuel of choice if mass SHTF occurred where there is a prolonged power outage or natural gas lines are destroyed.


In a true SHTF occurrence, having the fuel stored in a tank on site will be the better plan.

There is one other thing you forgot: The monthly service charge.

In this part of Texas, people are conserving more energy and trying to lower bills somewhat... so what does Atmos do to compensate? They raise the monthly service charge!! We got rid of out natural gas and converted to propane, because just 12 months worth of service charges (not counting ANY gas use at all) meant Atmos natural gas was costing us about $267 a year *JUST to have a meter!!!! *

I bought a 250 gallon propane tank for $100 and $300 worth of propane will last us 3-4 years *easily*, so only about $100 a year MAX.



tsrwivey said:


> In the event of SHTF, you would use natural as until it was gone, then convert over to your propane. Perhaps you could heat the house, or a portion of the house, with wood instead?


Tsrwivey is 100% correct. It is s simple adjustment on most generators to switch from natural gas to propane. I can change mine in about 15 minutes, most of that is moving the supply lines.

Yes, You also need to take a serious look at wood heat if you plan for a long-term SHTF scenario. Do not waste your propane on "frivolous" things like running a water heater, that would be a complete waste.


----------



## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Navajo--- not all lines need power-mine don't.

The only downside to propane is you run out in a sustained grid down situation whereas as long as the NG lines are intact, you're kosher.

Sent from my MB886 using Survival Forum mobile app


----------



## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

For us it was propane. We have two large tanks (one is a backup). When we put in the second tank we put in a propane kitchen stove, a tankless propane water heater, and last year we bought a 19cf propane refrigerator. The 16kw Generac runs off propane. We fill the primary tank when it gets to 50%. 

We're seriously considering putting in a 1,000 gallon tank as a backup to the backup. Remember you can only fill a tank to about 75% depending on your location. 

We heat the house with a wood stove.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

During Hurricane Sandy my NG generator performed flawlessly for 8 days until power was restored. With either NG or propane you will eventually run out of fuel in a TEOTWAWKI situation.

I'd say the best deal would be a multi-fuel set up using NG until it runs out, then switch to a propane tank, but even that is going to run out eventually.


----------



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

there have been a lot of good points so far in this thread.

If NG is already there and you are using it already, I would say it is the choice, especially if you are close to the source, around here the compressor stations are NG powered. 

If you are already hooked up to NG, I would hook the generator up too, and then get a back up supply of propane, it keeps forever as long as the tank holds up. The down side off propane is the delivery process and the chance of being just ready to top up when Stuff fails and that delivery also fails.
MY 2cents


----------



## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Wow thanks for all the help!

Yeah I did the wattage calculation and am able to run quite a bit of what I need, trying to stay under 80%. I can run the essentials (heat, hot water, food preservation) while doing either laundry or meal preparation.

I think I will go with Natural Gas and setup a propane backup down the line.

I have really been jonesing for wood heat too! Outdoor wood gasification boiler is the ideal option for my setup and I hope to be able to afford that within 2-3 winters.

Thanks All!


----------



## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I had natural gas heater for 15 years. When power out, no heater.
I now have for 5 years had propane.
500 gallon tank lasts us almost the winter and I close all doors to rooms not used. When we had 0° nights, I used sheets on the openings to rooms we didn't use, like the parlor, dining room, and huge foyer; wow, it helped. I started using propane October 26th after heater cleaned and still have 40%. So, this winter, we have used 45% or $337.50 for propane for about 11 weeks(bought in the summer @ $1.50 a gallon). The installation was cheap here and no problem..the little ditch healed itself in one summer. 
(You need to know the tank will only be filled 85%, so figure that into your equation--something about safety.)

Both my neighbors on the left and right had their tanks removed in the last 2 years. What were they thinking??? It is dusty, I have to sweep the laminate floors every day, I don't even bother dusting.
BUT, I can sleep knowing I will NOT have to bring out the 0° sleeping bags. I will be warm with propane and if they have a supply problem, I CAN live, eat, and sleep in one room. I thank God I will be warm and have warm food.

I even have a heater--the tank propane type for once when we had no electricity before installing propant heat. I even have two tanks filled for that if something happened to the power AND my propane heater.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

One more thing... stay away from Generac. The circuit boards have a very short life, and run about $500 a pop! ) also avoid Briggs and Stratton - they bought Generac and share similar parts). Older Kato Light plants are also excellent.

Kohler is by far the better unit, 
with Onan/Cummins also making quality units - but $$$$

Age will buy a better built unit. 

Newer equals "chintzy", older means better quality.


----------



## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I am very lucky then... our gas has so much pressure we don't need the grid for our heater and stove to work. We got down to -38 with the Polar Vortex and never had a problem. 

Sent from my MB886 using Survival Forum mobile app


----------



## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

LincTex said:


> One more thing... stay away from Generac. The circuit boards have a very short life, and run about $500 a pop! ) also avoid Briggs and Stratton - they bought Generac and share similar parts). Older Kato Light plants are also excellent.
> 
> Kohler is by far the better unit,
> with Onan/Cummins also making quality units - but $$$$
> ...


We have an older Generac - before they started making the one where you had to replace the entire 'mother board' if anything went out. The only trouble we've had with our generator was with the trickle charger. Had it replaced...it went out again. Got one from Northern tool and ran it to the circuit breaker. Works like a charm.

We ditched the regular car battery for a deep cycle boat battery.

I've said it many times in various threads that one of the unspoken benefits of having a generator on an automatic transfer switch is it won't switch back to utility power until that power is fully restored. That means you have a minimal chance of having a power surge take out your appliances. Replacing appliances after a power surge will be more than the price of a generator.

We had another power outage five days ago. Lights went out. Waited about 15 seconds. Heard the generator crank. Lights came back on. It's magic..... well, it's magic if you have your computer as well as the DVR on a UPS.


----------



## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

I would put in nothing other than diesel. Many fuels will make it run, no pressurized highly flammable gasses to worry about. Longer lasting, cooler running, better in pretty much every way, other than the exhaust soot.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Coastal said:


> I would put in nothing other than diesel. Many fuels will make it run, no pressurized highly flammable gasses to worry about. Longer lasting, cooler running, better in pretty much every way, other than the exhaust soot.


There is major truth in this. Diesel is by far the best choice over propane or natural gas.
If going "new", then Onan/Cummins for sure - with a Kubota engine in it. The older units with Onan diesel also worked well (and run pretty cheap used)


----------



## Navajo (Mar 4, 2013)

Hate to break it to some of you, but all natural gas supplies use electricity to keep lines pressurized coming from a source, you are not getting free pressurized lines from a hole in the ground all the way to your house. If you are on a utility gas line.

So at some point in the supply line you will run out of gas.

Unless you have a well in your yard feed gas to your house. But that might be one in a million people. Haven't heard of that yet, but even that needs regulation and some type of control system. And that runs on ....electricity....


----------



## Navajo (Mar 4, 2013)

SHTF...doesn't matter what you run on, TEOTWAWKI means just that...no resupply, so if you don't have oil bubbling up ...you will need to make other plans...


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Navajo said:


> Hate to break it to some of you, but all natural gas supplies use electricity to keep lines pressurized coming from a source,


Some wells have more than enough pressure to keep the supply line pressure up without pumping.



Navajo said:


> Unless you have a well in your yard feed gas to your house. But that might be one in a million people. Haven't heard of that yet, ..


They do exist, often it is because the well output decreased to a level where it wasn't worth it to keep it maintained. The property owner can often get ownership of the gas well and use the gas. Some property owners also have "tapping rights" and can use a portion of the gas from an active well for their own needs.


----------



## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Navajo-- we have a gas well 50 yards from my front door. There is no electricity to the well. When our power is out, we still have gas. 

Sent from my MB886 using Survival Forum mobile app


----------



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Navajo said:


> Hate to break it to some of you, but all natural gas supplies use electricity to keep lines pressurized coming from a source, you are not getting free pressurized lines from a hole in the ground all the way to your house. If you are on a utility gas line.
> So at some point in the supply line you will run out of gas.
> 
> Unless you have a well in your yard feed gas to your house. But that might be one in a million people. Haven't heard of that yet, but even that needs regulation and some type of control system. And that runs on ....electricity....


Maybe the one you know about or have seen, lots and lots of compressor stations use natural gas powered engines to run the compressors, since it often costs about 1/2 the cost of electric pumping units and the supply is right there in the line.


----------

