# Keeping a watch



## lucaspm98 (Apr 23, 2012)

Quick question - how many people do you need in your group to comfortably maintain a 24 hour watch, and what is the minimum amount amount of people you need to maintain a watch in a survival scenario without anybody being too exhausted to function?


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Depends a lot on environmental security, the threat you are potentially facing and other factors, but I would want at least a 3 person team for a 24 hour watch. You will need more if the other members of your group are engaged in activities other than opsec, cooking, sleeping, etc.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Too many variables and not enough info. How large a perimeter? Urban or rural? Wooded area or structure? Roving patrol or OP/LP? Type of terrain?

To keep people fresh, I would do 4 hr shifts, preferably 4 on 12 off.


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## lucaspm98 (Apr 23, 2012)

pandamonium said:


> Too many variables and not enough info. How large a perimeter? Urban or rural? Wooded area or structure? Roving patrol or OP/LP? Type of terrain?
> 
> To keep people fresh, I would do 4 hr shifts, preferably 4 on 12 off.


Approx. 1/2 an acre, suburban, house surrounded by trees, terrain flat or gentle downwards slope


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

This is a question I have often used as a yardstick of what the minimum size for a survivable group is.

6 Males (subsitute butch females in there in a pinch) give you the ability to maintan a work force and have at night a minimum of one person on guard duty.

This way you have enough guys in the day time to do heavy work and still maintaan a credible watch at night.

In a true anarchic SHTF situation you MUST have a 24 hr watch or you *will* be killed and someene else will enjoy your food and women.
During times of tension a group with 6 guys could surge to 2 guards at night w/o sacrificing a crippling amount of day time combat power or working ability.

Once you have that absoluteminimum of 6 you can add as many women and children as your supplies make prudent to allow.

So IMHO the short answer is, 6 armed men who know how to use guns and posses a quaility high volume firearm such a an AK or AR are the minimum component a group in a anarchic+lawless SHTF situation must have to be considred survivable.

...

PS: I am not including the ability to patrola large terrain at night just the minimum ot secure one main sleep dwelling for a group such as a large house.

In the stillness of th enight if you ahve a sharp guard noise of approaching enemy will be noticed and he can wake up others ( silently)
stringing windchimes on doorknobs or windows.
securing window sills with broken glass shards fixed w/ tar or glue will minimize avenues of approach.

If someone attacksin such a situation they will NOT come to just burn you all out because they will want your supplies and women so they MUST inavde/occupr your facility in order to properly plunder you. Thats a tactical; constraint they have that you can leverage


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Ok, 1/2 an acre isn't that big. If your property is fenced and your roof is manageable, you could get away with one person on the roof. Allowing there is a line of sight to at least your fence. If your roof is too steep or high, you would need at least two people on duty during darkness. Patroling opposite from one another. Daytime there is more chance of others in your party being outside and active, you could should be ok with one sentry during that time. Tripwires connected to something noisy could help to tip you off to activity. These would not be depended on but just an added layer. 

I would want one person on duty inside the house at all times with comm to the outside sentry at all times. Like I mentioned earlier, I personaly would keep shifts to 4 hours, stagger your outside and inside shifts, they dont both change at the same time. 

You will have to evaluate your perimiter and make adjustments as needed. Those are the major points I would consider first though. 

Hope that helps you some.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

You said house is surrounded by trees? Do the trees come up close to the house?,or is there a clear area around the house, then the trees start? Trees coming right to the house makes for a bigger challenge to defend/guard your property.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

You're going to need at least two people on watch at all times. A lone watchman can fall asleep and not even notice. 
If SHTF We will have at least a group of ten if travel is possible. 
Using force multipliers can help if not enough people are available. Having barriers, gates, locked hardened doors, surveillance systems, guard dogs, etc.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

If your house is surrounded by trees I would also suggest creating a larger cleared area... After SHTF I would cut at least another 50 yards in each direction. That wood will come in handy for heating... But a clear line of sight will be a must need. Also if the SHTF is not EMP related, i would also get some solar powered passive wireless infrared camera units for the OP. That way you can get a constant view for less and cover more distance...


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## lucaspm98 (Apr 23, 2012)

pandamonium said:


> You said house is surrounded by trees? Do the trees come up close to the house?,or is there a clear area around the house, then the trees start? Trees coming right to the house makes for a bigger challenge to defend/guard your property.


Trees 10 feet from the back of the house, but we do have a small lawn in the front.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

A couple good dogs is all it'll take, they'll hear and smell a lot fastrer than humans


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

lucaspm98 said:


> Trees 10 feet from the back of the house, but we do have a small lawn in the front.


Yeah, about that that....

Like invision said, to make the place better defensible, you may consider removing some trees. Even with ten people on guard duty at night, with trees that close you could have invaders get too close without being seen.

I like trees, but in the situation discussed, they are a nightmare. You see where this is going, right??


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

lucaspm98 said:


> Quick question - how many people do you need in your group to comfortably maintain a 24 hour watch, and what is the minimum amount amount of people you need to maintain a watch in a survival scenario without anybody being too exhausted to function?


Assuming an Observation Post (OP) that can overlook your area 360 degrees.

There is 168 hours in a week.

3 Lookouts working 8 hour daily shifts 4 days a week = 96 hours per week.

3 more Lookouts working 8 hour shifts 3 days a week = 72 hours per week.

You need 6 people, with no allowance for anyone getting hurt or sick.

In my humble opinion trying to stay motionless (and awake) for an 8 hour shift isn't too practical.

2 hour lookout shift, 8 hours for sleeping, 10 hours working and 4 hours for eating and free time. This plan would require 12 people with no allowance for anyone getting hurt or sick.

Three OPs with each covering 120 degrees would require 36 people again with no allowance for anyone getting hurt or sick.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

I'd say 4 at night. One on the two extreme corners. Other two do patrols. They can get away with doing some side work, just make sure it's easy and they drop it frequently to patrol. Durring the day f your people are reasonably alert you could get it down to two, hopefully sharp shooters. Just be smart about it and don't let them nest in one spot every day, keep them moving unless you want to make it easy for someone who scouts you for a day or two.

Don't assume dogs are an automatic alarm system. Few things are funnier than a snoring dog begin awakened by a sudden knock at the door. They can be good and useful, but they're not perfect.


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