# I can't do "grey man"



## a_decent_criminal (Jul 15, 2017)

Almost for the plain fact that being an adult male in America that isn't medically obese draws attention.

I'm not going to post selfies or anything, but no matter how I dress, females check me out and their boyfriends think I'm a threat. I'm not Brad Pitt, but I don't live in Hollywood either.

I try to go for a "hippie construction worker" look. I get a fair amount of head nods and other signs of respect from other males (well, not asians, but about everybody else). I generally try to avoid eye contact with any female under 40 unless I'm...uh, hunting.

Anyway it isn't really a disguise. I am something like that. Cops leave me alone generally, and these days I always pay a great deal of respect to them if they don't. I make small talk with the local sheriff when I'm in line at the gas station. He knows who I am. He doesn't trust me. But he's got bigger problems than me, and he knows that. I really don't have anything to hide from him, but I still try to look good.

That's one of the things I find that hardly anybody who hasn't been locked up appreciates: what your appearance says about you. I know how predators think. I've had to protect myself from them. Everytime I go into public, some stranger's appearance has me shaking my head in disbelief. They look like a target. A lot of them look very juicy.

And that's really why I'm here. Look, the predators are going to be coming. They're hungry. It's not even a moral issue. It's just how power works. It doesn't help to be mad about how power works or to hope they don't come. Emotions are not what you need here. And you should organize. They already are. They can turn into a quasi-military outfit pretty quickly. The chain of command is already in place. If he's got a dozen and you're protecting your family, you think it bothers him to lose two to get your preps?

Edit: I got all wound up writing this I forgot the reason I started it: I'm going to just do more to NOT be in public. That's easier for me than blending in.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I like to go for the unemotional well-armed hardened cop who is already part of a quasi-military outfit look. But if you're saying OPSEC and organized defensive capabilities are essential for the modern day prepper or post-SHFT mutual assistance group, then we're on the same page.


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## a_decent_criminal (Jul 15, 2017)

Sentry18 said:


> I like to go for the unemotional well-armed hardened cop who is already part of a quasi-military outfit look..


Quite frankly, I really don't know how to wear my hair except hippie long or high and tight. If I wear it high and tight, I look pretty military. Since I am certainly NOT a veteran, I don't do that because I don't think it's appropriate for me to give anybody that impression.

I am very polite and have a large vocabulary (to the point where I hide it). Humans get upset when they have to change their mind about somebody else. So I actually try to look pretty confusing, so people don't know what I'll be like. Then I show myself to be charming and put them at ease.

Situational Awareness is a way of life to me. Thinking about how other people see me affects EVERYTHING they can see. A lot of the time I'm in public it stresses me out to be around all these signals. God I love trees.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

There's a guy who works in one of the local stores who has a long pony tail, wears pink shirts, and carries a man purse. Looking gay can definitely make you a target. But it also depends where you live, where you go, and when. I'd stay out of bars if I looked like that.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

a_decent_criminal said:


> Almost for the plain fact that being an adult male in America that isn't medically obese draws attention.
> 
> I try to go for a "hippie construction worker" look. I get a fair amount of head nods and other signs of respect from other males (well, not asians, but about everybody else). I generally try to avoid eye contact with any female under 40 unless I'm...uh, hunting.
> 
> ...


Shortened for brevity:

First thank you for you honest post. Many if not most of us have had very little dealings with predators, so your view point is especially important. A few who are LEO's or involved in the criminal system have first hand knowledge but from a different viewpoint.

As I understand "Grey Man" is is not to disguise but simply to not stand out. Your appearance may attract the ladies and watchful males but as long as your attire is common place and you don't do a "Rooster Strut Walk" then you have a very good chance of blending in. Long hair is not a identifier unless you are on a military base. Many men, young and old, have long hair styles. Long hair can also be tucked into a shirt collar if the SHTF becomes an event. Well worn clothes but not raggedly is just another method to blend in. Too worn - homeless and you get attention. Too new or too stylish and you get attention. Watch what people in your age group (not the outlandish but average common person is wearing) and dress to match.

This goes without saying and I am sure you have figured this out but for others, don't look like prey. Get off those darn cell phones and look around you. When it starts to go south, those not paying attentions to their surrounding are going to be the first attacked. Wolves attack sheep, not watch dogs. Simple as that. Decent (you name is too darn long, I just shortened you - hope it is okay with you, let me know if is not) please post some more information about how predators think and how they view the general population.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Decent, I'll use that to, or maybe just ADC. I like hearing your point of view on this. I work in an area that has a wide range of folks, many foreingers, Ex-nuc navy, ********. and millineals. There is most any look you can imagine. Mine look is kinda of mid range Older and grey with a little dark hair left. But I grow it longer and cut it back at times. But mostly I like mine longer and that's the way it looks best in my mind (and my wifes). This areas folks range from white ******** to SJW, BLM, to flat illegals from south of us and plenty enough of the mussy types too. I'm pretty much mid pack, longerish hair, beard, Partial grey, button up shirts, not tucked in. jeans. Do y job, but not beg attention. it's working out good so far. If I head out in a Get Home situation, I'll more or less blend in on my route home, Whether town or farm land. I don't think it's good to focus in one distinct area. I know some cops and have discussed things in this area and what we may deal with in bad times. I'm about as grey as I can get.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Wow, my experiences when I was 20's and 30's. I was (and still am) the "hottest" guy in the room. Being more innocent than naïve, I allowed the older women to take advantage of me, ()

Gray man does not mean invisible, it means not being so visibly distinguishable to the causal observer. 

Try this: sit in a corner of a coffee shop or fast food and do not make eye contact with the other customers. See if you really stand out or are noticed by certain people. 

Next, make no eye contact on the street and keep walking, see how many eyes follow you as you walk by. Also, who is observing from across the street. 

Now, when you walk into a place, see who actually notices you enter as to those whose eyes follow you. 

Is it still the ladies and the insecure boyfriend. Then it's your pheromones and hormones! You hot stud.
You're still the "gray man."


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If you are not 100% comfortable the with the way you are dressed etal you will stand out, if you are trying to be anything you will stand out. I can be pretty invisible, it has little to do with the look, it is more to do with being focused on doing what I am doing and just cause a girl looks at your build doesn't mean she could recognize your face in 2 hours.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

I usually notice those who are trying not to be noticed first, but then again i go with everyone is trying to get me. Anyone trying to not be noticed is worth noticing because it goes against human nature. Sicks out like a sore thumb.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Dont change color to match the walls make the walls change color to match you. 

Translation...

Just be mild mannered, slightly confidant, and seem to have a purpose and most eyes will gloss over you. First thing I bought in the military after training was a clipboard. A clipboard and a sense of purpose kept me "out of sight" of most higher ups. Just be comfortable in your skin.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I just watch my 6 o'clock and stay out of public as much as possible. A large Spanish man with a small Norwegian wife and 7 kids do not blend in very well anywhere. The good news is I don't care if I blend in or not. I already exist professionally in the public eye and enjoy better than average OSPEC.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I guess I spend too much time watching everything and everybody around me,

when I'm out and about in my jeans and green tee shirt, to worry much about people watching or checking out an old grey beard fart like me.

Now that wierd looking dude sitting over in the corner,by himself, not eating, not eyeballin, that never looks around,

He holds my attention.:dunno:

Call me paranoid....I call it being aware.



Jim


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

This is an interesting thread. For me, I've found being a "grey man" is the only thing that works. 61, bald, a bit overweight. So I tend to go with the "nice grandpa" approach and maintain a high level of situational awareness. And I make it a point to be comfortable in my own skin. Started this approach over 20 years ago...when I still had plenty of hair and a smaller waistline. It's worked well for me. Of course, I still have a few tricks up my sleeve for that rare person who takes me for a potential victim...surprise is my friend in that event.


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I look like a Menno school principal. And I still can give that "look" for unruliness. Most people don't pick on me. I have been known to yell at people approaching me when I'm loading groceries in my trunk, for instance, to back off now! It's worked for me so far.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm like Sentry, I maintain good OPSEC and since those who want to do me harm already know me it does no good to try to "blend in". When I am out and about I maintain an air of Confidence and Command Presence so most People respect my space. For those who wish to try me I have 27 .40 Golden Sabers to make my point.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

My "Grey Man" approach is simple. Medium length semi-grey hair, medium build, blue jeans, tennis shoes, dark tee shirt, light button down over shirt (summer wear and all buttons undone, except bottom button) winter wear is the same except heavier button down over shirt. I walk with purpose and watch everything and every body around me. I do not stop to chat with folks and I never have my cell phone out in public. I am always armed and I stay aware. I do have great peripheral vision and nobody has every walked up unaware. Being a bit Paranoid is a great asset at times. My outward appearance does not invite people to approach me. Strangers do not stop me to ask directions or any other interaction. I don't scowl but I don't smile a lot in public. I do make eye contact with anybody approaching for two reasons: 1) I am almost deaf and I need to see their lips move. 2) Eye contact is disconcerting to many folks, including potential predators. My concept in public is "Wolves attack sheep, not watch dogs", so I want to appear watchful. Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Danil54 (May 8, 2017)

I am always aware of my surroundings. Always! In my younger days while grocery shopping I had a man that followed me. . . everywhere I wen he was there too, even at check out. When walked to my car I noticed a van Parked very close to my door, as in his sliding door was a just a couple inches next to my drivers door. I promptly walked back into the store and asked for a carryout. I was dating my hunny at the time and was before cell phones, but did get to call him since he was still at the station to give him a license plate and told him if something happens to me this is the who done it. There was no male carryouts that night but did enter threw on t he passengers side. Dont know who the hell he was or what he wanted but he sure wasn't going to mess with me that night. Always be aware, especially if you are alone. You just never know. I saw his van in the parking lot when I drove in & didn't park anywhere nearr so he was watching. . .


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

OP. Dye your hair blonde and everyone will automatically deduct 100 points from your IQ. 

Like others have already said, it's not so much as blending in as it is not standing out like a sore thumb. Do what you can so "they" will underestimate you.

I saw a Stranger (to me) walk into church just as the service had started to sit down. He was in front of me and off to my left. He left his outdoor jacket on and didn't stand when the congregation did nor did he participate in the singing, kept staring at the Preacher. To me he was standing out like a sore thumb. 

After the service was over he made a bee line over to a regular attender. From what I overheard from their conversation they were friends and the visitor was having the normal "Stranger in an unfamiliar environment" syndrome.


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## bbqjoe (Feb 10, 2017)

Interesting conversation.
I don't try to look like anything.
I dress comfortable where ever I am. Usually just a T-shirt and blue sweat pants.
I don't carry as much as I used to.

I hardly if ever carry cash, don't wear a watch, nor any other trinkets or jewelry. Nor do I carry a bulging wallet in my back pocket.

I don't believe I look like a good mark to anyone for any reason.

Normally if/when I go to town, I at least wear clean clothes.

If I'm dirty and need to go to town, and don't feel like cleaning up any, I'll throw on some greasy looking blue coveralls.
No one questions a guy looking somewhat unkempt in what looks like mechanics clothing. I might just be on a lunch break, or shopping for something while at work.

I'm not paranoid, nor am I real observant. I have nothing for anyone to take, and am pretty sure my appearance tends to say that.
I tend to go about my business, get it done and get out. I'm certain though that when I'm out, I do look like a man on a mission with a purpose.

People also don't approach me for change nor a cigarette anymore. I used to look long hair/ rock and roll, but don't do that now that I'm older.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

I've kind of got the fresh out of prison Neo-Nazi Blue Eyed Devil thing going on, which is far from the truth but I guess it serves a purpose. :dunno:


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## a_decent_criminal (Jul 15, 2017)

*I'm surprised*

I was really afraid that nobody was going to take this seriously, but it sounds like for at least some of you I'm preaching to the choir.

I do want to say, and probably not many of you are going to believe this, but I can usually spot a concealed carry. I can remember three ex-military steroid using prison guards. I got along well with all of them, but I think only one of them was satisfied with what he did over there. He was quieter and less angry.

There is a huge difference between the "I want to be a hero" swagger and the "I know I'm not a coward" swagger. "I'm young and black" is a different swagger and I made mistakes learning not all of them earned a swagger. I have the loose, confident swagger, and I know other cons pick up on it.

The thing is, I was never any kind of a gangbanging knucklehead. I probably hate those guys more than you do. That camraderie was never my style. Numbers were never my style. The crew I got brought into in prison (I'm unaffiliated on the outside), we didn't have numbers. We had a reputation for extreme violence. That's why they brought me in. And we didn't do stupid things like have "gang conferences" or work out together in the yard. That would be obvious. If you couldn't have 2 half-hour conversations with us and know the score, we didn't want you. It turned out that my mouth became my job, and I did things like arrange meetings and pick up/plant rumors. Thank God.

But anyway, suppose something came up and I needed a handgun in a few hours and didn't have a good way of getting one. That is really unlikely anyway. And I'm not trying to insult any of you, but literally the way I look at it is: if I put a roll of quarters in my fist, I'll just go take one from some fat junior cop. I'm faster than he is. How much space do you think I'm going to give him to draw?

But don't worry, most bad people go after something easier, like a country club idiot's wallet or his wife's jewelry. That said, a lot of mexicans think like I do. That's why I get along so well with them. We can tell.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Any cop that let's you inside his reactionary gap without you finding yourself looking down the barrel of his gun or riding the lightning is not much of a cop. I have broken a few arms and cracked a few eye sockets of people who decided they wanted my sidearm.


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## a_decent_criminal (Jul 15, 2017)

Sentry18 said:


> Any cop that let's you inside his reactionary gap without you finding yourself looking down the barrel of his gun or riding the lightning is not much of a cop. I have broken a few arms and cracked a few eye sockets of people who decided they wanted my sidearm.


I'm not talking about real cops or people who have an imposing physique. I'm talking about obese people who walk around like they have a gun on their hips. Like what, they fool me?


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

a_decent_criminal said:


> I was really afraid that nobody was going to take this seriously, but it sounds like for at least some of you I'm preaching to the choir.
> 
> I do want to say, and probably not many of you are going to believe this, but I can usually spot a concealed carry.
> 
> But anyway, suppose something came up and I needed a handgun in a few hours and didn't have a good way of getting one. That is really unlikely anyway. And I'm not trying to insult any of you, but literally the way I look at it is: if I put a roll of quarters in my fist, I'll just go take one from some fat junior cop. I'm faster than he is. How much space do you think I'm going to give him to draw?


Shortened for Brevity:

ADC, Thank you for your post. I spend time looking for others carrying (legal in my state) but I had not thought about others watching me. Now that is an eye opener. Nobody claimed I was a great out of the box thinker.

I think I am going to have to put some deep thought into this aspect of carrying. You are absolutely correct, you or anybody else who gets to land the first blow, is probably going to be able to disarm me. I guess I am going to have to put some extra thought on how to maintain a proper distance from unknown folks.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> Shortened for Brevity:
> 
> . I guess I am going to have to put some extra thought on how to maintain a proper distance from unknown folks.


Shortened 
My disabled daughter calls it the purple circle. Basically if you are within arms reach you are to close.
Does that help?


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

TM great point and one I hadn't paid close attention to. I will from this point forward.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Flight1630 said:


> Shortened
> My disabled daughter calls it the purple circle. Basically if you are within arms reach you are to close.
> Does that help?


I like the name. I understand the issue of striking distance but I will have to develop a method to keep folks outside this purple circle. Anybody have any suggestions on how to keep folks outside the purple circle? I don't open carry and I also don't think is is a good idea to brandish (open shirt - display) my weapon to get somebody to back off. So what are your suggestions?


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> I like the name. I understand the issue of striking distance but I will have to develop a method to keep folks outside this purple circle. Anybody have any suggestions on how to keep folks outside the purple circle? I don't open carry and I also don't think is is a good idea to brandish (open shirt - display) my weapon to get somebody to back off. So what are your suggestions?


Wear a shirt thats says your in my purple circle. That might help lol


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I've yelled at people to back off. It's worked. I always carry, but have never had to hold a gun to someone.
Spotting people who carry: we did a whole section on that in our extended concealed carry class. It was pretty interesting. Clothing choices, right hip drag, people protecting the side they are carrying...I carry in two different places, and am aware not to "show"/


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

AmishHeart said:


> I've yelled at people to back off. It's worked. I always carry, but have never had to hold a gun to someone.
> Spotting people who carry: we did a whole section on that in our extended concealed carry class. It was pretty interesting. Clothing choices, right hip drag, people protecting the side they are carrying...I carry in two different places, and am aware not to "show"/


Any one can check my past postings but I have always said that carrying open is a fools game. No mater how tough you are or how sharp you are, someone can approach from the rear and hit you over the head with a bat and take your weapon. Unless you are over 6 foot 6 and huge and strong AND have specialty training to prevent weapon theft, if not then you should carry concealed only.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Tweto said:


> Any one can check my past postings but I have always said that carrying open is a fools game. No mater how tough you are or how sharp you are, someone can approach from the rear and hit you over the head with a bat and take your weapon. Unless you are over 6 foot 6 and huge and strong AND have specialty training to prevent weapon theft, if not then you should carry concealed only.


Generally speaking I don't believe open carry is smart either, I say generally because if I'm out in the woods riding a horse, 4wheeling, or hunting I open carry but otherwise it's concealed for several reasons.
1. Don't want to stand out
2. If something bad is going to go down like a robbery I don't want to be shot first and eliminated as a threat.
3. My primary carry pistol is about $1000 new, by far worth more than anything else I have on me. I know a thug wouldn't know what it is but it is a piece they may want and I don't want the theft of it being considered.


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## a_decent_criminal (Jul 15, 2017)

So I am super happy that anybody is taking me seriously.

It's so hard to go straight. Anybody who can do things like I've done knows 1)crime is very, very easy and 2)most Americans are utterly clueless and don't respect anything or anybody.

I'm less lonely now.

BTW, usually yelling is all it takes to stop idiots. Just not showing fear is usually enough. But there's a difference between not being afraid and looking like youre asking for it. I think about God. I'm less scared of violent death than I am of having excuses before Him.


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

I've posted earlier in this thread about my gray man approach, so I'll won't bore y'all with a redundant rehash here other than to say that open carry does not fit into my approach.

To be honest, I've always felt like open carry screams "if you're a bad guy about to commit a bad act, please shoot me first". It just seems to make the carrier an obvious threat and thus a high priority target.

All the best to those who open carry, but I just can't get on that bandwagon.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

a_decent_criminal said:


> So I am super happy that anybody is taking me seriously.
> 
> It's so hard to go straight. Anybody who can do things like I've done knows 1)crime is very, very easy and 2)most Americans are utterly clueless and don't respect anything or anybody.
> 
> ...


All walks of life here. From city folk to hillbillies like me. Most here will not be a victim without a fight. No different than you. All our paths are different and who you were yesterday makes no difference it is who you choose to be today that matters. Of course we take you seriously you have valuable information to share and it is appreciated.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Spot on RedBeard. And well put to.

This has been a great thread and a lot of well thought out responses. Some lines of thought to chew on for sure.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

fteter said:


> ...To be honest, I've always felt like open carry screams "if you're a bad guy about to commit a bad act, please shoot me first". It just seems to make the carrier an obvious threat and thus a high priority target.


If they are smart enough to take out the open carry person then why aren't they smart enough NOT to try and rob a gun store?








> Two armed men chose the wrong place to attempt a robbery Monday morning, when an employee at the Cobb County gun shop confronted them and shot one dead at the scene, Cobb County police said.
> 
> The two men entered Dixie Gun and Pawn at 11 a.m. and attempted to rob the business.
> 
> A store employee happened to be armed and exchanged gunfire with the men, striking one of them. The robbery suspect died at the scene, police said.


I believe open carry or concealed depends on the circumstances.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

TheLazyL said:


> If they are smart enough to take out the open carry person then why aren't they smart enough NOT to try and rob a gun store?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That takes a special kind of stupid.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

terri9630 said:


> That takes a special kind of stupid.


I remembered another one but couldn't find a link. Two Robbers walked into a bar, display guns and demanded money from the Bartender. The bar was around the corner from the Police Department Headquarters. The bar also was the local hangout for Officers coming off duty and was full of UNIFORMED and plainclothes LEOs when the two tried to rob the bar. The both Robbers were taken into custody without a whimper.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

A buddy of mine was using an ATM across the street from a city police department. A guy came up to him and tried a strongarm robbery first, when that didn't work the guy pulled a knife. 

Than crapped his pants looking down a barrel. My buddy had him toss the knife and than walked away.


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