# Pot smoking found to permanently lower IQ



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9426205/Cannabis-smoking-permanently-lowers-IQ.html

Cannabis smoking 'permanently lowers IQ'
Teenagers who regularly smoke cannabis are putting themselves at risk of permanently damaging their intelligence, according to a landmark study.

Researchers found persistent users of the drug, who started smoking it at school, had lower IQ scores as adults.

They were also significantly more likely to have attention and memory problems in later life, than their peers who abstained.

Furthermore, those who started as teenagers and used it heavily, but quit as adults, did not regain their full mental powers, found academics at King's College London and Duke University in the US.

They looked at data from over 1,000 people from Dunedin in New Zealand, who have been followed through their lives since being born in 1972 or 1973.
Participants were asked about cannabis usage when they were 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38. Their IQ was tested at 13 and 38. In addition, each nominated a close friend or family member, who was asked about attention and memory problems.

About one in 20 admitted to starting cannabis use before the age of 18, while a further one in 10 took up the habit in the early or mid 20s.
Professor Terrie Moffitt, of KCL's Institute of Psychiatry, who contributed to the study, published in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, said "persistent users" who started as teenagers suffered a drop of eight IQ points at the age of 38, compared to when they were 13.
Persistent users meant those who used it during at least three of the ages from 18 to 38, and who said at each occasion they were smoking it on at least four days a week.

She said: "Adolescent-onset cannabis users, but not adult-onset cannabis users, showed marked IQ decline from childhood to adulthood.

"For example, individuals who started using cannabis in adolescence and used it for years thereafter showed an average eight-point IQ decline.
"Quitting or reducing cannabis use did not appear to fully restore intellectual functioning among adolescent-onset former persistent cannabis users," she said.

Although eight points did not sound much, it was not trivial, she warned.
It meant that an average person dropped far down the intelligence rankings, so that instead of 50 per cent of the population being more intelligent than them, 71 per cent were.

"Research has shown that IQ is a strong determinant of a person's access to a college education, their lifelong total income, their access to a good job, their performance on the job, their tendency to develop heart disease, Alzheimer's disease, and even early death," she said.
"Individuals who lose eight IQ points in their teens and 20s may be disadvantaged, relative to their same-age peers, in most of the important aspects of life and for years to come."

The cognitive abilities of the 10 per cent of people who started in their 20s - who could loosely be classed as college smokers - also suffered while they were still smoking.

However, if they gave up at least a year before their IQ test at 38, their intelligence recovered, suggesting their brains were more resilient and bounced back.

Prof Moffitt said adolescent brains appeared "more vulnerable to damage and disruption" from cannabis than those of fully mature adults.
Reliable figures on cannabis usage among today's British teens and twentysomethings are hard to come by.

But Prof Moffitt said there was growing concern in the US that cannabis was increasingly being seen as a safe alternative to tobacco.

"This is the first year that more secondary school students in the US are using cannabis than tobacco, according to the Monitoring the Future project at the University of Michigan," she noted.

"Fewer now think cannabis is [less] damaging than tobacco. But cannabis is harmful for the very young."


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

That has been my experience. When I was on patrol I used to deal with pot-heads all the time and it was rare to find one who wasn't more-than-a-little slower than the average person. Often times the chronic marijuana smokers were little more than giggling idiots or living zombies.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

ummm a few names come to mind( actually google is what happened)
Sir Richard Branson
Rick Steves
Aaron Sorkin
Michael Phelps
Barack Obama
Michael Bloomberg
Ted Turner
Montel Williams
Stephen King
and i left out Arnold Schwarzenegger on purpose


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

My wife's ex-husband has been a pothead for years. At one time he passed the IQ test for Mensa, meaning he was in the top 2% for IQ. The guy should be a CPA making $125,000 a year. Instead, he literally has the maturity level of a 14 year old and typically works in restaurants doing menial work.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Alcohol damages the liver.
Tobacco damages the lungs.
Salt damages the heart.
Sugar damages the pancreas.

Pot? We're supposed to believe that it has no effect on nuthin? Why are we supposed to believe this? Because people want others to share in their sense of wishful thinking. Wanting something to be true doesn't bring it any closer to actually being true.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Bobbb, you forgot one.

Liberalism damages the soul.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Bobbb, you forgot one.
> 
> Liberalism damages the soul.


How does it do that?


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Whenever common sense and morality conflicts with political opinion, in this case liberalism, it surely results in a tortured soul. For example, I do not believe you can be a Christian and a Democrat, because they are odds with one another. So on each topic you have to choose one or the other resulting in turmoil and torture. As it says in the Good Book; Ecclesiastes 10:2 The heart of the wise leans to the right, but the heart of the fool leans to the left. But since none of this has to do with pot making people dumb, I digress.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

So you think that scripture mentioning leaning to the right and left refers to politics? I think it's absurd to say one can't be a Democrat and a Christian. I'm not a Christian but every Dem that I know is one..


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

db2469 said:


> So you think that scripture mentioning leaning to the right and left refers to politics? I think it's absurd to say one can't be a Democrat and a Christian. I'm not a Christian but every Dem that I know is one..


No that's not what the scripture refers to, it is just a humorous truth. And it's not that I don't think you can be a liberal and a Christian, I know for an absolute fact that you can't. You cannot just pick or choose which parts of the Bible you believe in and which parts of the Bible you can disregard, since most of the liberal philosophy is in direct opposition to what the Bible says you either have to choose one or the other. And there are many many people who label themselves Christians who do not live their life as Christians. Perhaps I should've said you cannot be a Democrat and a true practicing Christian.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Again, I think that is patently absurd and I'll let it go at that...no offense Sentry, you seem like a fine man and that's what counts!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Take 4000mg of lecithin spread out through your day. Solved it for me. I lived in spots where smoke was generally accepted in my teenage years. Without lecithin I would not be a straight A student. I tried it with and without. The lecithin makes a marked difference.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Wait, what was the OP about?

Lots of things are bad for you. You'll not get me to agree that Big Brother has the right to tell me (or you) what you can and cannot put in your own body.
There is the line. Period, end of story.
'They' say trans fats, alcohol, large soft drinks, HFCS, Saccharin, tobacco, and on and on are all bad for you. People who use or possess them should be thrown in prison.
Prison for possessing a plant?

Yes, pot makes you stupid and lazy. Doesnt matter.

_Theyre trying to build a prison system,
Theyre trying to build a prison system,
For you and me to live in_
-SOAD


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> Lots of things are bad for you. You'll not get me to agree that Big Brother has the right to tell me (or you) what you can and cannot put in your own body.
> There is the line. Period, end of story.


As a stand-alone principle, I'm with you on this. 100% support.

Now, when you do things that are bad for you or lower your ability to function in society, or cause other side-effects which create problems for you, don't expect me to pay for your healthcare, to give you income support to make up for your reduced attention span at work, and so on.

I'm not directing this at you, Immolatus, just the general YOU out there. If someone wants to claim that their body is a sovereign island then they can't turn around and claim community and dependency when the consequences of their decisions, be it pot or transfat, kick in.

As Hilary Clinton has said "It takes a village." And Liberals, man, they care about people. They care so damn much that they want to force everyone to eat properly and as part of the bargain *they*'ll pay for their healthcare. And by they, I mean you and me, certainly not liberals putting up their own money, but that's beside the point.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Obesity makes people lazy too. Lower IQ? well , I do think your diet affects your brain functionality.

Alcohol makes people lazy too. Lower IQ? possibly.

Now, I would probably agree that smoking pot during the growing years might effect the IQ. No doubt about that. Smoking it makes you feel lazy too. 


Why pick on pot? I won't. We got lots of things in this world that's affecting folks.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Let's be honest...most of us have tried it..


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Does this surprise anyone?



db2469 said:


> Let's be honest...most of us have tried it..


I know I haven't I need what little IQ I have.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Pass that damn blunt


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Pot smoking does not mess with your mind or memory, why I remember the time when I drank fifteen shots of...wait what were we talking about, oh yeah it was about smoking a cigar and getting your teeth stained. Why I remember the time that I drank fifteen shots, oh Hell I forgot to tuck in the Cat and put the Grandbaby out for the night. Ok back to the main topic it is a proven fact that beer drinking puts more weight on you than drinking water, so there end of arguement. So maybe now I can finally scratch my watch and wind my butt.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

db2469 said:


> So you think that scripture mentioning leaning to the right and left refers to politics? I think it's absurd to say one can't be a Democrat and a Christian. I'm not a Christian but every Dem that I know is one..


I don't know how anyone could be a Christian and vote for anyone who supports abortion, infanticide, and homosexual marriage.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

DJgang said:


> Obesity makes people lazy too. Lower IQ? well , I do think your diet affects your brain functionality.
> 
> Alcohol makes people lazy too. Lower IQ? possibly.
> 
> ...


I knew somebody wouldn't like to hear the truth.

Pot is bad for adults and even worse for the young. The study shows that. There's no proof that moderate alcohol use has any bad health effects, mental or physical.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I made it a point to smoke before ever major test.I was top 5% in my class and passed each test.used correctly its like any other herb you think your god made.a medicine.but godz know you can abuse hell out of medicine, even laxatives!

Haven't had any good weed in 20 years,I could use some for my stomach/nerves.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

BillS said:


> I don't know how anyone could be a Christian and vote for anyone who supports abortion, infanticide, and homosexual marriage.


Of course you don't...


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

bills have you lost your mind 

theres no proof that alchohol is bad for you, im calling BS, even with you saying moderate use im still calling BS. how about this for that one study youve read there are ten out there that dissprove it, then there are a hundred that dissprove those ten so forth and so on. what i do kno is that i have somoked since i was 12 and graduated in the top 10 percent, this was not due to me smoking this was due because i had been instilled with the drive to succeed, i smoke daily and my intelligence has not gotten shorter. the problem with that report is theyve taken kids that were interactive in the world when they were youn, sports reading something active physically or mentally, and then when they test them as adults they ve amounted to nothing because theyve sat there and watched tv for 15 years and of course they lost alot of their IQ wat else would you expect, i bet if you took a 12 year old who was a genuis and just sat him in front of a tv and then when he was 27 give him the same IQ test hes not going to score anywhere near his original because youve been feeding him full of useless sh*t

saying that bud makes you dumb is like saying guns kill people not people
oh god tell me your not one of those, PLEASE


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

oh yeah in canada they came up with a topical ointment that had like a 90% effective rate for the deadly disease MRSA


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

one question real quick what is the difference between a loritab and pot


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

BillS said:


> I knew somebody wouldn't like to hear the truth.
> 
> Pot is bad for adults and even worse for the young. The study shows that. There's no proof that moderate alcohol use has any bad health effects, mental or physical.


Huh? Said I agree dear sir. Reread please.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> one question real quick what is the difference between a loritab and pot


None. :surrender:


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

deetheivy said:


> i smoke daily and my intelligence has not gotten shorter


You're in no position to judge yourself.

Imagine that your house had no clocks. You claim that you sleep 8 hours per day. Now changes start to happen but you're unaware of them. You go to sleep and when you wake up refreshed, you think that you've slept a full 8 hours because that's all that you know - you feel refreshed after 8 hours of sleep. However, you've lately only been getting 7 hours and 40 minutes of sleep and you still feel refreshed.

Without an outside measurement, your own internal self-assessment is misleading.

It's kind of like women in their 30s who still believe that they look hot to men based on how hot and desirable they were when they were 20 years old. They maintain this fiction without any reference to outside metrics and instead tell themselves that men like maturity in their women or some other self-deluding hogwash. Meanwhile, when they go to nightclubs, most men pass them by and beeline to the hotter and younger women. She just tells herself that men have changed.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

> Originally Posted by BillS View Post
> I don't know how anyone could be a Christian and vote for anyone who supports abortion, infanticide, and homosexual marriage.


o0o0o0o0o0oh!pick me Mr. Kotter!

Be a LIBERAL Catholic!
What do I win? can I has bong hit? 

Abortion I'm good with as long as it's not "cosmetic" surgery and I ain't willing to pay for it anyway.

Some things were not meant to be, if I were a club footed *********,I'd scream prayers of thanksgiving every day if my mother had killed me in the womb.

If its not in your bedroom, why do you care BillS? after all, it's not YOUR ass is it? 

NOW THEN:
Having said that, meet my Satanic conservative side:

You can afford a baby, the kid is normal, get ready for motherhood!you shared it, you bear it.
Rape, mutant kid, starvation already...ditch time.

Really, don't worry where anybody's D**K goes but your own, good rule of thumb for everybody lest you be found committing bestiality with a bee hive!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

BillS said:


> I don't know how anyone could be a Christian and vote for anyone who supports abortion, infanticide, and homosexual marriage.


I usually throw my lot in with the libertarians. I am not voting for people who support those things. I am voting for people who oppose the government legislating their opinions on such things. Being Christian does not mean you impose Christian values on the rest of the world. It means you do your best to live by your chosen values in your life. God gave free will to man so that we could be free to make our own mistakes. Live by the example set by God and leave choices like that to the people making them.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

> Originally Posted by deetheivy View Post
> i smoke daily and my intelligence has not gotten shorter


Cut back to weekend or when you need it.it's medicine after all.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> It's kind of like women in their 30s who still believe that they look hot to men based on how hot and desirable they were when they were 20 years old. They maintain this fiction without any reference to outside metrics and instead tell themselves that men like maturity in their women or some other self-deluding hogwash. Meanwhile, when they go to nightclubs, most men pass them by and beeline to the hotter and younger women. She just tells herself that men have changed.


While I shouldnt say this because my girl is 48...
That is freaking hilarious! "Reference to outside metrics"! Classic!

Dee- congratulations on your smartitude, but please work on the grammar!

I wont stick up for Bill, because he and I see things very differently, and thats great, it makes the world go round. I shudder to think what it'd be like if everyone thought like me, but Bill, you believe what you believe and are passionate about it, and ya gotta respect that.
I will have to say that I cant believe someone would call themselves 'conservative' or 'freedom loving' and want to make decisions for someone elses health, welfare and/or lifestyle.

Big up to Magus' post also!


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Like anythin else, abuse has it's consequences. Just cause this place says it be dangerous don't mean a thin ta me. Most a these universities got there own agenda.

Now I ain't never tried this stuff. Never felt the need ta. But, on some a the other forums I'm on, I have a couple friends what have had cancer. Part a there treatment included marijuana oil. It helped with there appetite from chemo an some other benefits durin there fight. Both one there fight against cancer an said a big part a winnin that battle was the marijuana oil. 

So it ain't a complete demon niether. I beleive it has some medical benefits an ifin it was studied properly an all the politics removed from it, it would prove ta be a usefull product. I know ifin I needed it, I'd sure like the possibility a tryin it to help with a disease.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> While I shouldnt say this because my girl is 48...
> That is freaking hilarious! "Reference to outside metrics"! Classic!


Classic video (some strong language)


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Bobbb, that made my night. Hilarious!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> Being Christian does not mean you impose Christian values on the rest of the world. It means you do your best to live by your chosen values in your life. God gave free will to man so that we could be free to make our own mistakes. Live by the example set by God and leave choices like that to the people making them.


Being a Christian means you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior. It means the choices you make are based on the word of God and not the world of man. Which would include voting, political affiliation, how you live your life, the choices you make, etc., etc. God gave us mental freedom for only one reason, so if we choose Him we would do so of our own free will. And if we choose to follow the world of the wicked and turn our back on God, we can do so freely as well. Jesus never said "Go forth and believe in what you want to believe in, 20% Christian is good enough. And hey, if someone is being murdered you should just stay out of it because it's their choice." Christianity is not a buffet where you get to pick and choose what you want to put on your plate. But there's a whole lot of "buffet Christians" out there who think it is.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Being a Christian means you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior. It means the choices you make are based on the word of God and not the world of man. Which would include voting, political affiliation, how you live your life, the choices you make, etc., etc. God gave us mental freedom for only one reason, so if we choose Him we would do so of our own free will. And if we choose to follow the world of the wicked and turn our back on God, we can do so freely as well. Jesus never said "Go forth and believe in what you want to believe in, 20% Christian is good enough. And hey, if someone is being murdered you should just stay out of it because it's their choice." Christianity is not a buffet where you get to pick and choose what you want to put on your plate.* But there's a whole lot of "buffet Christians" out there who think it is.*


I'm not a Christian any longer but I do agree with this. My view is that if the Bible and the Gospels are the words of the Lord recorded for the benefit of mankind, then how on Earth does one justify violating that received wisdom and still claim to be a Christian - you're setting yourself as knowing better than God.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

immolatus sorry for the grammatical errors. your right i should work on that. just backs up my theory though; not doing stuff makes you dumb. i have hardly written a single thing since being out of school, and with that comes a whole lot of text messages via cell phone. now we come to the text message language. c u l8er wwid all that good ol happy stuff. not reinforcing knowledge you already have, or obtaining new knowledge, will do nothing but C U DED

IT IS MY BELIEF THAT ANYONE CAN SIT AROUND ON THEIR A** WATCHING TV


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Immolatus said:


> Dee- congratulations on your smartitude, but please work on the grammar


Crap ... the grammer police!

:gaah:

I'm screwed ... :surrender:


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

*Andi said:


> Crap ... the grammer police!
> 
> :gaah:
> 
> I'm screwed ... :surrender:


Lulz. Hey, Im fine with some grammatical errors, but to post as if this was a text message... Unh unh.

And Bobbb- very funny!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Immolatus said:


> While I shouldnt say this because my girl is 48...
> That is freaking hilarious! "Reference to outside metrics"! Classic!
> 
> Dee- congratulations on your smartitude, but please work on the grammar!
> ...


I dunno.MY G.F is 20,I'm over half her age.anybody says I'm lying I WILL post pics and they are NOT work friendly!
Might offend Christians, Moslems and Libbers too.she looks good in that dog collar!


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Are you over half her age, as you stated, which would make you 11 years old or more or are you over twice her age? I guess either would be technically correct, but... BTW, is that you behind the gas mask?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Magus said:


> I dunno.MY G.F is 20,I'm over half her age.anybody says I'm lying I WILL post pics and they are NOT work friendly!
> Might offend Christians, Moslems and Libbers too.she looks good in that dog collar!


Sorry ... :tmi:

Just so you know...


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

*Andi said:


> Crap ... the grammer police!
> 
> :gaah:
> 
> I'm screwed ... :surrender:


So, some police force comin after my smores now?

Bein a hillbilly do sometimes have a advantage!


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Magus said:


> I dunno.MY G.F is 20,I'm over half her age.anybody says I'm lying I WILL post pics and they are NOT work friendly!
> Might offend Christians, Moslems and Libbers too.she looks good in that dog collar!


Hey, ifin it works fer yall, so be it. I ain't rockin nobody's boat!


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

I get the message across,so guess its ok.Far as the pot is concerned,I can't even ride in a car with a pot smoker without getign stoned.I finally figured out what the problem was and why i was so hungry and made them roll down the windows.of course this was 40 years ago.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

This thread just made me remember my plans to take over the middle east. Drop copious amounts of marijuana laced brownies all over the desert in care packages with video games and ipods full of top 40 music. Then start opening McDonald's restaurants and Mt Dew/Doritos factories everywhere possible. Within 10 years the average terrorist will be 100lbs over weight and (_now possibly proven to be true_) too dumb to care about killing infidels. Check and mate!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

db2469 said:


> Are you over half her age, as you stated, which would make you 11 years old or more or are you over twice her age? I guess either would be technically correct, but... BTW, is that you behind the gas mask?


Wait.did you just insult me?you want some of this? let's go P.M!I'll put stuff in your head Sigmund Freud can't get rid of!
Yes,I'm the man behind the mask,the gimp from hell!I'm 46.

I'm daddy.make no mistake!
She looks good in my Nazi boots too! 
K, been warned.NO pix.sorry fellow perverts.


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

they had to do research to find this out? as a person who knew many 60s pot smokers, i could have told anyone that it makes you stupid. it also puts you in a kind of a time warp, frozen mentally at the age/era when you started smoking. kinda like gets your brains 'stuck'. that for me was enough to convince me NEVER to even try it. I need all my marbles, thank you!


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Magus said:


> Wait.did you just insult me?you want some of this? let's go P.M!I'll put stuff in your head Sigmund Freud can't get rid of!
> Yes,I'm the man behind the mask,the gimp from hell!I'm 46.
> 
> I'm daddy.make no mistake!
> ...


Of course I didn't insult you...you're one of my favorite posters!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> Being a Christian means you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior. It means the choices you make are based on the word of God and not the world of man. Which would include voting, political affiliation, how you live your life, the choices you make, etc., etc. God gave us mental freedom for only one reason, so if we choose Him we would do so of our own free will. And if we choose to follow the world of the wicked and turn our back on God, we can do so freely as well. Jesus never said "Go forth and believe in what you want to believe in, 20% Christian is good enough. And hey, if someone is being murdered you should just stay out of it because it's their choice." Christianity is not a buffet where you get to pick and choose what you want to put on your plate. But there's a whole lot of "buffet Christians" out there who think it is.


I think you maybe misunderstood my post or I wasnt clear. Not the forum for it so Ill keep it as a rights thing. Its wrong for me to impose my values on another. I can stand up for my valuesby living them in my life. I will not cast votes that impose my lifestyle and/or beliefs on another because that is wrong. I would consider that ego and vanity run rampant. Its important to me to provide an atmosphere where others can reach their own conclusions on these subjects. Of course if asked I would happily provide advice and guidance as needed. I would not offer the same advice and guidance through force of law. Thats contradicts the example that has been set for me. Just my opinion. If you think I am mistaken in this we could continue the discussion in a different forum. Just shoot me a message if you start a thread. You've always had some good points and Ill listen.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

deetheivy said:


> bills have you lost your mind
> 
> theres no proof that alchohol is bad for you, im calling BS, even with you saying moderate use im still calling BS. how about this for that one study youve read there are ten out there that dissprove it, then there are a hundred that dissprove those ten so forth and so on. what i do kno is that i have somoked since i was 12 and graduated in the top 10 percent, this was not due to me smoking this was due because i had been instilled with the drive to succeed, i smoke daily and my intelligence has not gotten shorter. the problem with that report is theyve taken kids that were interactive in the world when they were youn, sports reading something active physically or mentally, and then when they test them as adults they ve amounted to nothing because theyve sat there and watched tv for 15 years and of course they lost alot of their IQ wat else would you expect, i bet if you took a 12 year old who was a genuis and just sat him in front of a tv and then when he was 27 give him the same IQ test hes not going to score anywhere near his original because youve been feeding him full of useless sh*t
> 
> ...


Excuse me but didn't you say last week that your current living situation was "couch surfing"? I'm no genius (although I did have enough sense to marry one) but you're not exactly the poster child for refuting this study... I'm just saying... Couch surfer is not exactly what comes to mind when one thinks of someone smart & motivated.

I personally couldn't care less what anyone else smokes or how much as long as My tax dollars aren't going to support them or their offspring & it's not my couch their surfing.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

*andi said:


> crap ... The *grammer* police!
> 
> :gaah:
> 
> I'm screwed ... :surrender:


lol !


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

db2469 said:


> Of course I didn't insult you...you're one of my favorite posters!


O.K.. kind of took it you were accusing me of being a 14 year old or a pedo, or something.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

all right yall thats enought for me 
this thread that is not pot
see yall on another one this is like talking 
politics and religion


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Magus said:


> O.K.. kind of took it you were accusing me of being a 14 year old or a pedo, or something.


You know that 25 year age difference is just a little creepy, right?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> You know that 25 year age difference is just a little creepy, right?


It's not creepy at all. It's no different in kind than women seeking a man who is more capable than them, smarter than them, taller than them, more respected by his peers than she is by hers, etc.

Men like youth. Generally. Women like tall men. Generally.

If a 25 year age difference is "creepy" then a 4'11 women with a 6'2" man is creepy. If the ideal is an age difference less than a few years, then similarly we should expect women to seek out men who are their same height or their same education level, or what have you. Clearly women have different mate selection standards than do men, yet simply because men don't adopt those same mate selection standards with respect to women doesn't make women's mate selection standards creepy.

Calling this creepy is a way that women use to negate the disadvantage that age gives them in the sexual market place. This tactic only works if men willingly cede that power to women.

What matters here is that two people want to be together, not that other women are casting judgment on the age difference issue. Most men, given their choice, would love to be with a younger woman but the problem is that a.) it's painful to be with them once they start talking (the maturity difference) and b.) most young women don't want some guy's saggy, wrinkly skin touching them when there are younger, hotter, firmer, men who also want them.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I dont think its creepy either. Go Magus! More power to ya!


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## imamanrawr (Jul 26, 2012)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> I usually throw my lot in with the libertarians. I am not voting for people who support those things. I am voting for people who oppose the government legislating their opinions on such things. Being Christian does not mean you impose Christian values on the rest of the world. It means you do your best to live by your chosen values in your life. God gave free will to man so that we could be free to make our own mistakes. Live by the example set by God and leave choices like that to the people making them.


I agree. If christains want christianity to prosper set good examples and follow the words of Jesus. As a child christianity was forced upon me by some very evil people. I now am borderline atheist, but to this day I try to live by words and behavior of a man I am not sure ever existed and am almost positive was and is not a god. The KKK is a christain organization. So is the Aryan Brotherhood.

If the religion is true in its entirety then I suppose many "christains" will find they were never truley christain when they die since revelations says only 100,000 will make it to heaven. Only 100,000, or was it 144,000 I can't remember, will deserve eternal happiness...can't help but think what kind of souls would Jesus Christ want to spend eternity with? Hmm...if only the bible would have given us some type of clue?


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## twiggie (Jan 3, 2009)

I've gotta say that I don't believe anything in that article without reading the studies and finding out who paid for the results to be skewed that way. Doesn't the Christian holy book say something about god putting everything on this planet for man to use? Cannabis is a powerful medicine, people use it to self medicate as they see fit. If it can help a depressed person feel a little less glum then why not let them have it? It gives cancer patients an appetite and sufferers of chronic pain a bit of much needed relief, without the nasty side effects of pharmaceuticals. How can that be a bad thing? Do the opponents of pot want people to be in pain, too sick to eat, or too depressed to go outside or any of the other wonderful things that a simple flower can help with?


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh way to funny I just went and had a conference call with 
3 herb takers and all 3 say it makes you less intelligent because they just don't care.
The good point I see is they are all 3 non violence converts.
All 3 have been in jail for long periods and now self medicate.
Interesting thread thank you


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> I agree. If christains want christianity to prosper set good examples and follow the words of Jesus. As a child christianity was forced upon me by some very evil people. I now am borderline atheist, but to this day I try to live by words and behavior of a man I am not sure ever existed and am almost positive was and is not a god. The KKK is a christain organization. So is the Aryan Brotherhood.
> 
> If the religion is true in its entirety then I suppose many "christains" will find they were never truley christain when they die since revelations says only 100,000 will make it to heaven. Only 100,000, or was it 144,000 I can't remember, will deserve eternal happiness...can't help but think what kind of souls would Jesus Christ want to spend eternity with? Hmm...if only the bible would have given us some type of clue?


Your post, in it's entirety, is an example of buffet christians picking and choosing which parts of the bible to read, know, understand and abide by. The 144,000 destined for heaven were from Isrealite tribes and were recognizable by the mark on their forehead. After the 144,000 the apostle also saw a "great multitude, which no man can number". Which of course means that heaven is not limited by any number, regardless of what pseudo christian cults and money driven faux christian organizations would lead you to believe. And the KKK is as Christian of a group as Al 'Qaida. Christ does not have groups, organizations, denominations or clubs; He has followers. The rest of the list belongs to man.

God did put the marijuana on our planet for our use in the form of hemp. It works great for clothing, paper, rope, animal feed, oil, bio fuels, etc., etc. It was man who decided to smoke it and turn stupid. It was also man who decided to genetically engineer the THC concentration from the very low natural levels to the point of it being reclassified as a hallucinogen.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> If christains want christianity to prosper set good examples and follow the words of Jesus.


But on this part Sir, we could not agree more.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

tsrwivey said:


> You know that 25 year age difference is just a little creepy, right?


Look at my avatar.I AM creepy.even my EX-GF said I could move right into silent hill or next to house of 1000 corpses and none of the monsters or serial killers would care, we'd be beer bonging in a week.:beercheer:


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> But on this part Sir, we could not agree more.


I also concur. Easier said than done but I do try. Attraction not promotion. Read that somewhere. Seems to be the most honest way  this would be a good discussion. Should I start a thread elsewhere?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Magus said:


> Look at my avatar.I AM creepy.even my EX-GF said I could move right into silent hill or next to house of 1000 corpses and none of the monsters or serial killers would care, we'd be beer bonging in a week.:beercheer:


Move in next ta me, we'll get long just fine. Gotta bring yalls tools though!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Move in next ta me, we'll get long just fine. Gotta bring yalls tools though!


Wouldn't leave home without them!


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## redneckwildman (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't really believe Pot lowers the IQ. If so, the government would be trying to pass it to keep us all stupid about what they are doing....OH, Wait!!...They are. Our VP is head of one of the coalitions to legelize Marijuana. That should tell us something.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Magus said:


> Wait.did you just insult me?you want some of this? let's go P.M!I'll put stuff in your head Sigmund Freud can't get rid of!
> Yes,I'm the man behind the mask,the gimp from hell!I'm 46.
> 
> I'm daddy.make no mistake!
> ...


naw, she didn't insult you, but maybe she SHOULD have told you to STOP POSTING WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK! :lolsmash:

Magus?

MAGUS?!!?!?

Oh crap, he took my advice, we're NEVER going to hear from him again... :lolsmash:


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## jumper13 (Aug 13, 2011)

Interesting conversation, and more than a little humorous. I just gotta throw my $0.02 in...

First, God created marijuana, and He created the effect it has. A true Christian should be very careful before condemning what God Himself created (and called "Good" in Genesis 1!).

I have never smoked weed or done any other drugs of any sort. However, being a paramedic, I have to say that I've never encountered a pot-smoking wife-beater. And when I've retired from my drug-free career, a little Mary Jane every now and again might be just what the "doctor" orders...

A Christian can't be a democrat? Interesting...while I agree that a Christian cannot hold some liberal beliefs that the "left" embraces, I can definitely say the same about Republicans and the "Christian Right." Having come from the Bible Belt, I can honestly say that there are more hypocrites on the "far right" side of things.

The Bible does not espouse any political view whatsoever, but instead focuses on the Gospel, a personal way of life, and an individual world view.

And if you can show me the verse where the Bible calls marijuana "evil," then I'll vote for Romney! Meanwhile, I'll be enjoying a nice Scotch tonight...


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

jumper13 said:


> Having come from the Bible Belt, I can honestly say that there are more hypocrites on the "far right" side of things.


This observation of yours doesn't mean much when it is divorced from context. It would be like me saying that I've never seen women with penises. The point here is that for someone to be a hypocrite they must first espouse a standard that must be upheld and then fail to uphold the standard. One of the principal features of leftism is relativism and the utter rejection of most standards. The upshot here is that if one doesn't embrace standards in one's life it becomes very difficult to be judged a hypocrite for failing to live up to non-existent standards. You know, kind of like judging women for not having a penis. How can you judge them on this factor when they don't have one?


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## jumper13 (Aug 13, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> This observation of yours doesn't mean much when it is divorced from context. It would be like me saying that I've never seen women with penises. The point here is that for someone to be a hypocrite they must first espouse a standard that must be upheld and then fail to uphold the standard. One of the principal features of leftism is relativism and the utter rejection of most standards. The upshot here is that if one doesn't embrace standards in one's life it becomes very difficult to be judged a hypocrite for failing to live up to non-existent standards. You know, kind of like judging women for not having a penis. How can you judge them on this factor when they don't have one?


Bobbb, sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water. You say that "the point here is that for someone to be a hypocrite, they must first espouse a standard that must be upheld and then fail to uphold the standard." That is not the case. Hypocrites are individuals who establish their own "laws", behaviors, and standards, and are full of pride due to their "holy" lives (i.e. the Pharisees), but their hearts are actually evil and self-righteous, and they reject the Truth.

If you are trying to argue from a Christian, Biblical approach, try this on for size: Throughout the Gospels, Jesus chose the people that were the castaways and sinners of society (those "rejected" by the "Religious Right" of that day), and He held the pompous, self-righteous people in contempt. 
This is NOT the approach of the Religious Right movement. So, they do not adhere to the "standard" that they preach...wasn't that your definition of a hypocrite?

My take is that the politics of the fanatical "Religious Right" personifies this very thing. They simply fit into the same mold as the rest of the politicians in this country---corrupt and worthless---while pretending to be the saviours of the country.

I can find no sense in your statement about women with penises in relation to the definition of hypocrites. Maybe we should both light up a joint, eat a bag of doritos, and maybe then it will make sense :2thumb:

Can we continue this conversation in another forum, perhaps? This is fun, but it is not medicine...


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

jumper13 said:


> Bobbb, sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water. You say that "the point here is that for someone to be a hypocrite, they must first espouse a standard that must be upheld and then fail to uphold the standard." *That is not the case. Hypocrites are individuals who establish their own "laws", behaviors, and standards, and are full of pride due to their "holy" lives (i.e. the Pharisees), but their hearts are actually evil and self-righteous, and they reject the Truth. *


So let me get this straight. You tell me something is not the case and then you bolster your point by making up a definition for the concept of hypocrisy so that it suits your case?

Definition:
_a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives_​
I don't see any condition for "being full of pride" nor of having "hearts of evil and self-righteousness" nor of having to reject "the truth."

What I see in the definition is exactly what I stated, a public statement not followed through on by private belief or act.



> This is NOT the approach of the Religious Right movement. So, they do not adhere to the "standard" that they preach...wasn't that your definition of a hypocrite?


If you want to target religious people, here is an example that the liberals love to tout - religious people are opposed to divorce yet they have as high as divorce rate as liberals. To tie this into my point above, a necessary condition for divorce is that a couple first be married. We know from demographic studies that religious people have a higher rate of marriage than do liberals, so if we count the proportion of religious people who are married we'll find that their ratio is higher than the proportion of liberals who are married. Within the group of religious people who are married are more teenagers, are poor people, etc, who are known to have higher rates of marital problems but in liberal communities these individuals tend not to marry. Also, a liberal couple who live together and then break up don't count as a divorce, therefore they are exempt from any charge of hypocrisy on the issue of divorce because they never got divorced because they never got married. Meanwhile, they are likely to put on airs and sneer at married religious people who end up getting a divorce for not living true to their own pronouncements on marriage and divorce.

This dynamic makes religious people look more like hypocrites in relation to liberals because the religious people are trying to live to their own standards on marriage and divorce, while liberals tend to reject those very same standards and thereby exempt themselves from the charge of hypocrisy.


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## jumper13 (Aug 13, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> So let me get this straight. You tell me something is not the case and then you bolster your point by making up a definition for the concept of hypocrisy so that it suits your case?
> 
> Definition:
> _a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives_​
> ...


Bobbb, I like your point, especially your definition of a hypocrite as "a person who professes beliefs or opinions that he or she does not hold to in order to conceal his or her true opinions or motives." The only real difference we are having in this conversation is that you are confining "hypocrisy" to only be valid in relation to _particular_ standards and behavior, such as the concept of marriage. In that case, everyone on the planet is guilty of hypocricy at that point regarding something. For instance, I'm a hypocrite for telling people to drive carefully, but I'll speed a little trying to get home at midnight---but I'm probably the only one who is guilty of that... 

I, on the other hand, take the approach that hypocrisy actually deals with the overall character of the person, regardless of how many rules or religious regulations they follow (or don't). Self-righteously obeying physical rules and standards while maintaining an air of judgemental superiority of those who don't is extremely hypocritical, as defined by the Bible.

Organized political religious movements such as the Religious Right preach "freedom," but they actually take *away* the freedom and responsibility of individuals while giving themselves more power and authority in the name of their "religion." Pot smoking, for example, is considered "EVIL" because it can make you want to put your hair up in dreadlocks and start strumming your guitar; but getting fat on greasy, sugary food and clogging those cardiac arteries is *"OK!" *. The typical far right-wing religious hypocrite says "I don't smoke pot because it rots your brain and it's from the Devil, Amen and Amen!", but he's chowing down on pork rinds and ice cream every night, killing his heart and getting diabetes, while preparing his Sunday School lesson and watching "How I Met Your Mother" on TV. I prefer to hang out with the weed-whacker---at least he is more honest. I might even get dreadlocks one day! 

In my book, each individual will have to live with the consequences of his or her lifestyle and behavior. As long as you aren't hurting or inhibiting someone else's freedom, safety, or security, the government should not regulate your personal behavior.

Hmmm. I'm starting to sound like Ron Paul!


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

how did we turn natural herb into yet another religion discussion?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

partdeux said:


> how did we turn natural herb into yet another religion discussion?


Tis the season!:surrender:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Never Tried it*



db2469 said:


> Let's be honest...most of us have tried it..


I never tried it. When I was young and single, the crowd were drinkers and because my peers drank, I did too. If MJ had beed available to us then we would probably have used it too.

When I was a Deputy Sheriff and arrested someone for useing MJ, they woulds often tell me how it was not any worse than drinking. Some would even espouse that it benifited them in some maner.

I would ask if they believed it was benificial to their employment and subsiquent ability to provide for their family.

They would tell me that they had a job and provided for their family and that MJ did not affect their employment.

I would then point out to them that if they were injured on the job that their employers insurance company would have them drug tested at the ER and when cannibus was indicated positive,( even though they had not smoked in a week), the Insurance company would require the employer to fire them.

Given that senerio, how can an adult use MJ and call themself responcibile ?


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Sinners*



jumper13 said:


> Bobbb, I like your point, especially your definition of a hypocrite as "a person who professes beliefs or opinions that he or she does not hold to in order to conceal his or her true opinions or motives." The only real difference we are having in this conversation is that you are confining "hypocrisy" to only be valid in relation to _particular_ standards and behavior, such as the concept of marriage. In that case, everyone on the planet is guilty of hypocricy at that point regarding something. For instance, I'm a hypocrite for telling people to drive carefully, but I'll speed a little trying to get home at midnight---but I'm probably the only one who is guilty of that...
> 
> I, on the other hand, take the approach that hypocrisy actually deals with the overall character of the person, regardless of how many rules or religious regulations they follow (or don't). Self-righteously obeying physical rules and standards while maintaining an air of judgemental superiority of those who don't is extremely hypocritical, as defined by the Bible.
> 
> ...


All I claim to be is a sinner saved by grace !

I did not earn salvation, I begged for it. It was an unmerited gift from God !


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

The_Blob said:


> naw, she didn't insult you, but maybe she SHOULD have told you to STOP POSTING WHEN YOU'RE DRUNK! :lolsmash:
> 
> Magus?
> 
> ...


I wasn't drunk, I just don't care.
I'm talking to my Miss 20 now btw...LOL


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## jumper13 (Aug 13, 2011)

BillM said:


> All I claim to be is a sinner saved by grace !
> 
> I did not earn salvation, I begged for it. It was an unmerited gift from God !


That's the only thing that matters...


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## Arkansas_Ranger (Feb 9, 2009)

Sentry18 said:


> That has been my experience. When I was on patrol I used to deal with pot-heads all the time and it was rare to find one who wasn't more-than-a-little slower than the average person. Often times the chronic marijuana smokers were little more than giggling idiots or living zombies.


That's my experience as well from being a patrol officer.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

They needed a study to figure this out?! Another waste of taxpayer money.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

BillM said:


> They would tell me that they had a job and provided for their family and that MJ did not affect their employment.
> 
> I would then point out to them that if they were injured on the job that their employers insurance company would have them drug tested at the ER and when cannibus was indicated positive,( even though they had not smoked in a week), the Insurance company would require the employer to fire them.
> 
> Given that senerio, how can an adult use MJ and call themself responcibile ?


I work for a large company (>200,000 employees) and we do not drug test. If an employee gets hurt on the job we also do not drug test unless there was evidence that they were using drugs when they got hurt. If they test positive we do not fire them we put them in a drug counseling program.

Essentially what I am saying is that your logic does not hold true because the assumptions you have based it on are not universally true.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

SlobberToofTigger said:


> I work for a large company (>200,000 employees) and we do not drug test. If an employee gets hurt on the job we also do not drug test unless there was evidence that they were using drugs when they got hurt. If they test positive we do not fire them we put them in a drug counseling program.
> 
> *Essentially what I am saying is that your logic does not hold true because the assumptions you have based it on are not universally true.*


I find your story difficult to believe. I can't imagine any large company not requiring a pre-employment drug test. If you do that you're advertising for all drug users to come and work for you. That just isn't going to happen. Do you have a company website that shows that they don't require a pre-employment drug test? Companies don't want to hire drug users because their insurance companies demand drug tests for new employees. They don't want to pay for drug programs for their irresponsible employees either. Who would?


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

jumper13 said:


> Interesting conversation, and more than a little humorous. I just gotta throw my $0.02 in...
> 
> First, God created marijuana, and He created the effect it has. A true Christian should be very careful before condemning what God Himself created (and called "Good" in Genesis 1!).
> 
> ...


God created all kinds of toxic substances that aren't meant to be smoked, inhaled, or injected into your body. Your argument is ridiculous. Not only that, marijuana possession is illegal. You shouldn't use it or possess it because we're called to obey the laws of society unless they conflict with the laws of God.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

But it's good for stomach ailments and certain eye disorders.not to mention stimulates appetite in chemotherapy patients and eases Alzheimer's symptoms in some patients. 

The only reason it's illegal is the wood industry made it so.

CHRISTIANITY Is illegal in some places BillS, so is possession of large amounts of gold.what then BillS?
I can just see you moving to Amsterdam at your age BillS.

ANY medicine can be abused Bill, INCLUDING LAXATIVES!


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

BillS said:


> I find your story difficult to believe. I can't imagine any large company not requiring a pre-employment drug test. If you do that you're advertising for all drug users to come and work for you. That just isn't going to happen. Do you have a company website that shows that they don't require a pre-employment drug test? Companies don't want to hire drug users because their insurance companies demand drug tests for new employees. They don't want to pay for drug programs for their irresponsible employees either. Who would?


Is a difference between differing levels of employment. Most companies that hire any blue collar workers drug test. There might be a few exceptions like some restaurant chains and possibly the entertainment industry. In the high tech and consulting world very few organization drug test (IBM is an exception to this) due to the difficulty just finding people who are capable of doing the job. Essentially you are looking for the top 10% in their field and when many of them smoke pot you will run yourself out of business by drug testing. I run into very few companies that list their HR policies on their public websites so cannot point any out to you. With that said some of our customers drug test, so when we place people at companies that drug test we inform the consultant up front that they will need to be tested to work at the company. They have the right to refuse and we will just put them somewhere else. I used to refuse on principal (I have never smoked) but in the last few years I gave up caring. The reality is that when a company is paying $5 a minute for your time very few of them are going to waste your time on getting a drug test done...


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

How do the researches know it wasn't liberalism at fault? Maybe the test subjects were milk drinkers or enjoyed diet soft drinks or ate GMO foods. Was any of that considered? We know the answer, don't we?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

partdeux said:


> how did we turn natural herb into yet another religion discussion?


I agree ...


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