# Can you say no?



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I've been thinking about this: imagine the stock market crashed, there's no power, no water, no stores open. But you and your family have everything you need for a year. What do you do when friends, family, neighbors, or co-workers knock on your door looking for food and shelter? We have a condo. We're barely going to have room for all our stuff and 4 people. I can't take in my sister-in-law and her husband plus my stepson's girlfriend's brother and parents. I plan on not answering the door no matter who it is. Hungry people are desperate people and everybody probably knows 20 people who feel like you owe them food and shelter. I think I might be in the most danger from friends, family, and acquaintances than from complete strangers. Any thoughts on this?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

We are planin on us, the boys an their wives an the grandkids. That be as far as I feel comfortable a stretchin the resources. After that everbody gonna be on there own.

It be harsh not ta help others, but there only so much ta go round. Folks what can't even put back the basics gonna have a mighty powerfull lesson ta learn.

Hopin that time never comes, but preppin as best we can fer it.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

In addition to my family, it will be my parents and my husbands mother. That's it.

My neighbor that I love, I have informed her during tornados of my preps, however I told her, since it is only her, she can easily just buy some dehydrated meals, start storing water and she will be fine...she said, OK, I might let you buy that for me, she doesn't have a computer.

That's it, no one else. No answering doors and if we do, AK on shoulder.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Not sure if I can turn away hungry kids,but we may have to.We don't have much at all,just a garden,chickens.We store water if storms in forecast.
Basically we just started canning and with beans $17 a bushel we have'nt did much of that.Just planted some beans,okra,cukes,peppers,and few other veggys.

When they go on vacation,they go to the beach or visit each other mostly.Say all we like to do is work.So let them eat cake.

'Cakes'that crud on the bottom of baking pans.What the queen was referring to right before they sent her and family to guillitine.She said"Let them eat cake",it was the last straw and insult to the people.[if I remember right?]


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We're planning on three others coming but we're trying to put away as much as possible to leave our options open. We have no problems saying no & we seem to get ample opportunities to practice it.  If/when TSHTF, we will trust God to let us know who, & to what extent, to help.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

tsrwivey said:


> We're planning on three others coming but we're trying to put away as much as possible to leave our options open. We have no problems saying no & we seem to get ample opportunities to practice it.  If/when TSHTF, we will trust God to let us know who, & to what extent, to help.


Good idea.
I talk big but who knows what I'd do if the situation presents itself.


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

There is only my wife and I. Kids live far away and also "put away for a rainy day" so , anyone finds my place, and then stupid enough to cross or cut two fences is going to need a few plugs to stop the liquid stuff from running out on the ground


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

In a word, yep. It has been me and the hubby for so long now that it is pretty apparent family on both sides would throw us under the bus for a Klondike bar. Can't pick your family though ... so ... might sound harsh but if I'm not good enough to associate with now I certainly won't be good enough to associate with after things get unbearable ... 

Wish them all the best but I am nobody's keeper but my own.

I do have a neighbor I'd give my life (and everything I own) for. He's a good man and we are best buds ... His wife of 60 someodd years passed away last year. He is welcome anytime ... and for as long as need be. :kiss:


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

I think their will be about 7 possible that could come if it got bad enough. 1 for sure, 2 very possible. The other 4 not so sure (long distance).

Depending on what they bring to the table whether they can join in or not. Strangers? Nope, plain and simple. In an odd way I feel that it want be hard for me.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

In a word, yep... they have called me odd for years ... 

It is me, myself and mine ...


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I can tell then NO and to move on just as fast as they told me i was paranoid and crazy for the past 15 yrs.
You give in to one person and you'll have dozens and all their friends, so you either prep for your and yours or you prep for the world, you have to make that choice now, not after the dam breaks.
you people who say you're going put your trust in God or not answer the door will starve or be killed in place, your doors will be busted down and God is not going to help, I know it sounds cruel but it's a fact, this world is full of theives and takers and bad times are not even here yet.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> I can tell then NO and to move on just as fast as they told me i was paranoid and crazy for the past 15 yrs.
> You give in to one person and you'll have dozens and all their friends, so you either prep for your and yours or you prep for the world, you have to make that choice now, not after the dam breaks.
> you people who say you're going put your trust in God or not answer the door will starve or be killed in place, your doors will be busted down and God is not going to help, I know it sounds cruel but it's a fact, this world is full of theives and takers and bad times are not even here yet.


I'm with ya. Try 35 years of being called a fool. Well it won't take long to weed them out.

Actually at this moment in time, besides a GF, I'm pretty much on my own. At my house have no neighbors even in the ballpark. At the retreat a little different. I have about 6 neighbors within about 2 miles, they are all country folks, with big gardens, they all hunt and fish. Not looking for much issue with them.

Kids are 2400 and 400 miles away. They would be welcome of course if they can get here. I have more than enough prepped. They know I have been prepping for all these years and have never said anything until lately. Mainly asking questions about how to do this and that.

Anybody comes up my drive, they are either coming to visit, lost or up to no good....

So yep, I can say no.

Jimmy


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

Yes. I can and will say no. I am planning on 4 for several years. Whenever someone mentions or hints around at it, I refer them to the story of "The Lttle Red Hen" I have printed copies that I post around now and again. I have put it on FB and e-mailed it to people. Unfortunately a lot of people still don't get it..


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

JustCliff said:


> Yes. I can and will say no. I am planning on 4 for several years. Whenever someone mentions or hints around at it, I refer them to the story of "The Lttle Red Hen" I have printed copies that I post around now and again. I have put it on FB and e-mailed it to people. Unfortunately a lot of people still don't get it..


Oh my what a great "show and tell!". Forgot all about that story...

Jimmy


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

Jimmy24 said:


> Oh my what a great "show and tell!". Forgot all about that story...
> 
> Jimmy


Yes it is. This story is even more important to society now then it was when i was a very small kid. It may be a kids short story but, it provides a good blueprint for life.

Once there was a Little Red Hen who lived in a barnyard with her three chicks and a duck, a pig and a cat. One day the Little Red Hen found some grains of wheat. "Look look!" she clucked. "Who will help me plant this wheat?"
"Not I", quaked the duck, and he waddled away.
"Not I", oinked the pig, and he trotted away.
"Not I, meowed the cat, and he padded away.
"Then I will plant it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And she did.
When the wheat was tall and golden, the Little Red Hen knew it was ready to be cut. "Who will help me cut the wheat?" she asked
"Not I," said the duck.
"Not I," said the pig
"Not I," said the cat
"Then I will cut this wheat myself". And she did.
"Now", said the Little Red Hen, "it is time to take the wheat to the miller so he can grind it into flour. Who will help me?"
"Not I," said the duck.
"Not I," said the pig.
"Not I," said the cat.
"Then I will take the wheat to the miller myself," said the Little Red Hen. And she did
The miller ground the wheat into fine white flour and put it into a sack for the Little Red Hen.
When she returned to the barnyard, the Little Red Hen asked, "Who will help me make this flour into dough?"
Not I," said the duck, the pig and the cat all at once.
"Then I will make the dough myself," said the Little Red Hen. And she did.
When the dough was rready to go into the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, "Who will help me bake the bread?"
"Not I," said the duck.
"Not I," said the pig.
"Not I," said the cat.
"Then I wll bake it myself," said the Little Red Hen. And she did.
Soon the bread was ready. As she took it from the oven, the Little Red Hen asked, "Well who wil help me eat this warm, fresh bread?"
"I will," said the duck.
"I will," said the pig.
"I will," said the cat.
"No you won't," said the Little Red Hen. "You wouldn't help me plant the seeds, cut the wheat, go to the miller, make the dough or bake the bread. Now, my three chicks and I will eat this bread ourselves!"
And that's just what they did.


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

*Little Red Hen update...*

animated version:






*MODERN VERSION*

Once upon a time, there was a little red hen who scratched about the barnyard until she uncovered some grains of wheat.

She called her neighbors and said, "If we plant this wheat, we shall have bread to eat. Who will help me plant it?"

"Not I," said the cow.
"Not I," said the duck.
"Not I," said the pig.
"Not I," said the goose.

"Then I will," said the little red hen, and she did.

The wheat grew tall and ripened into golden grain. "Who will help me reap my wheat?" asked the little red hen.

"Not I," said the duck.
"Out of my classification," said the pig.
"I'd lose my seniority," said the cow.
"I'd lose my unemployment compensation," said the goose.

"Then I will," said the little red hen, and she did.

At last it came time to bake the bread. "Who will help me bake the bread?" asked the little red hen.

"That would be overtime for me," said the cow.
"I'd lose my welfare benefits," said the duck.
"I'm a dropout and never learned how," said the pig.
"If I'm to be the only helper, that's discrimination," said the goose.

"Then I will," said the little red hen.

She baked five loaves and held them up for her neighbors to see. They wanted some and, in fact, demanded a share.

But the little red hen said, "No, I can eat the five loaves."

"Excess profits!" cried the cow.
"Capitalist leech!" screamed the duck.
"I demand equal rights!" yelled the goose.
And the pig just grunted.

And they painted "unfair" picket signs and marched around and around the little red hen, shouting obscenities.

When the government agent came, he said to the little red hen, "You must not be greedy."

"But I earned the bread," said the little red hen.

"Exactly," said the agent. "That is the wonderful free enterprise system. Anyone in the barnyard can earn as much as he wants. But under our modern government regulations, the productive workers must divide their product with the idle."

And they lived happily ever after, including the little red hen, who smiled and clucked, "I am grateful. I am grateful."

But her neighbors wondered why she never again baked any more bread.

---------------

Still another version:

http://www.caelsanderson.com/latest-news/a-modern-day-version-of-the-little-red-hen/

A modern-day version of "The Little Red Hen"

"Said the big white rooster, 'Gosh all hemlock; things are really tough,

Seems that worms are getting scarcer and I cannot find enough;

What's become of all those fat ones is a mystery to me;

There were thousands through the rosy spell but now where can they be?'

The little red hen who heard him didn't grumble or complain,

She had gone through lots of dry spells, she had lived through floods of rain;

So she flew up on the grindstone and she gave her claws a whet,

As she said: 'I've never seen the time there were no worms to get.'

She picked a new and undug spot-the earth was hard and firm,

The big white rooster jeered, 'New ground! That's no place for a worm."

"The little red hen just spread her feet, she dug both fast and free,

'I must go to the worms,' she said, 'the worms won't come to me.'

"The rooster vainly spent his day, through habit, by the ways

Where fat worms have passed in squads, back in the rainy days.

When night fall found him supperless, he growled in accents rough,

'I'm hungry as a fowl can be-conditions sure are tough.'

He turned then to the little red hen and said, 'It's worse with you,

'For you're not only hungry but you must be tired, too.

'I rested while I watched for worms so I feel fairly perk,

'But how are you? Without worms, too? And after all that work.'

"The little red hen hopped to her perch and dropped her eyes to sleep,

And murmured in a drowsy tone, 'Young man, hear this and weep,

I'm full of worms and happy, for I've dined both long and well,

The worms are there as always-but I had to dig like heck.'

"Oh, here and there, white roosters still are holding sales positions,

They cannot do much business now, because of poor conditions,

But soon as things get right again, they'll sell a hundred firms-

Meanwhile the little red hens are out a-gobbling up the worms."

-author unknown


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## Glockster42 (May 31, 2011)

You have to look after yourself before you can look after anyone else. If you are unable to provide/defend for your family who will? Sometimes harsh times require harsh measures. And I hope to heck we never have to see it.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I will*

I will say no so my wife , children and grand children can eat.

I will be despised and hated so they will not be.

I will defend our provisions with deadly force so they do not have to .

I will say no so that they don't have the guilt.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

I have no problem saying no now so I am sure it will not be hard when it comes to someone else taking food out of my children's mouths!


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## KhakiGirl (Jun 4, 2011)

This is something I've thought on off and on. Hubby's mom probably wouldn't survive the shock if anything did happen but my mom would probably be right on the door step. I know she'd pull her weight and she does help me some of the labors or storing. As a matter of fact she's in the process of putting in fruit trees for canning and drying... But she also doesn't get "it".

I know there would be others knocking on the door. I really want to say that they wouldn't be welcome, but hubby and I both have big hearts and closing the door would hurt us worse than them (well emotionally at least).

In the end we'd have to remember that it's better for few to survive than none to survive.


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## power (May 7, 2011)

When a person can afford to be generous they should. If a person cannot afford to be generous they should not feel like they have to be.
If their family is put in danger they should say no and be ready to back it up.
No one has a right to expect others to put their family in danger for them.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

Meerkat said:


> Not sure if I can turn away hungry kids,but we may have to.
> 
> *I don't think I could look hungry children in the eyes and turn them away. I have and will continue to buy oatmeal or something along that order for just such people. No freebies, parents work or hit the road. They can give me their kids and they will be fed the same as mine.
> Having said that, if it's not a "world ending "emergency (ie: weather related or regional), I'll help anyone that truly needs help *


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*people knocking on the door*

I already live in a situation where people knock on my door who are looking for something. I know the people who knock. They have been in my house and have spent time around. Some were former colleagues, some have done work around the place. As a single woman, I have treated them kindly, and it is working against me. I have fed them, given them water to drink, given them what they needed, even allowed them to sleep on the couch.

I am at a place in my life where the house is a mess due to a few circumstances and I am not interested in anyone else being here. (Painting, getting stuff re-organized, purging, getting ready to sell the house to move to a remote location).

I have not seen some of these people in years, but they knock on my door as though they should be able to come anytime THEY want to, not that I have invited them, or am in a situation where I want to hang out. I might be on a ladder, painting, or putting in a new light fixture, or something else. Why should I stop because someone is looking for a cozy place to hang?

I have it set up so that I can see who is at the door, and they don't see me. I just don't answer the door.

Just because someone knocks on the door doesn't mean I need to answer it. Just because the phone rings doesn't mean I need to answer it either. I believe this practice is helping me prepare at a different level. I believe this is a level of security. They can tell I am home and not responding. A couple of them are not happy about it. If I answer the door, it will send the message that they think they can knock and the door will be opened. They are grown and have looked to be dependants. I have already told some that I am not looking for dependants, especially grown, able bodied dependants who have their own ideas.


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## power (May 7, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> I have it set up so that I can see who is at the door, and they don't see me. I just don't answer the door.
> 
> Just because someone knocks on the door doesn't mean I need to answer it. Just because the phone rings doesn't mean I need to answer it either. I believe this practice is helping me prepare at a different level. I believe this is a level of security. They can tell I am home and not responding. A couple of them are not happy about it. If I answer the door, it will send the message that they think they can knock and the door will be opened.


I have been doing this for many years. Just because someone comes to my house does not mean I am going to answer the door. If a person calls me it does not mean I am going to answer a phone call. My friends already know I won't usually answer a phone call but will call them back when I get time. Sometimes people will ask me why I have a cell phone if I am not going to answer it. I answer I have one because I might want to make a phone call. Many have to keep their cell phone on them at all times and would never think of missing a phone call. I just don't have the time and really do not like talking on a phone. I never answer a call from a number I don't know.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> So let them eat cake.
> 'Cakes'that crud on the bottom of baking pans.What the queen was referring to right before they sent her and family to guillitine.She said"Let them eat cake",it was the last straw and insult to the people.[if I remember right?]


Let them eat cake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I’m pretty good at saying no already. I’ve been screwed over in the past and now keep my generosity to a few close friends. Now, the few true friends I have know me well enough to not consider dropping by as I have been telling them to at least have a few preps on hand, just in case. All except one does have a plan and a pantry where they could keep themselves going for at least a month. Other folks, like at work, who laugh and call me a nut are on their own and know it.

In times of plenty I have no problems sharing. In times of drought I have problems sharing. I am not willing to sacrifice the security of me and mine. Greedy? Selfish? Uncaring? Call it what you will I have pretty broad shoulders and have shrugged off being called much worse.

In a short term situation I would be willing to share for those that have something to offer in return. It could be anything from stories to tell to a strong back to help out. In a known long term situation best I could offer is some seeds and a short introduction to how to plant them. If the folks asking have something to offer in return, that is a whole different story. I’m happy to barter for what they have.

I’ll give you the short version of a story an old friend told me.

The Ten dollar bill

Two guys were waiting at a bus stop to go to work one morning. At ten minutes till 7 a man in a black hat and trench coat walked up to them and just looked at them. After a few minutes he handed one man something and walked away. They looked at each other and then at what he handed them. It was a ten dollar bill. They chuckled and laughed calling the guy a nutcase as the one man pocketed the bill.

Next morning the same man appeared at ten minutes till 7 and after staring at them for a few minutes handed the man a ten dollar bill and walked off. Again they called the man a nut job pocketed the bill and went to work.

This went on for a few weeks, every morning at ten till 7 the man appeared handed the man a ten dollar bill and walked away. One day as they waited for the bus the man did not appear at the appointed time. They looked down the street for him and could not see him coming as expected. The bus came and the one man decided to wait for the next bus, in case the nut was running late. Next bus came and went but the nut did not appear.

Finally the man had enough and got on the final bus to work. Next day the two men were waiting for the bus. The one man asks if the stranger ever showed up. Nope said the man, I waited and waited but that bastard never showed with my ten dollar bill.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Woody, what a great story. Oh so true, the attitude of some people!

This has been an interesting thread. Our kids and grandkids will be coming to our place if TSHTF (hopefully they'll make it here safely, all are within 100 miles of us), but since we rarely leave our remote area our friends consist of our neighbors, all of whom are preppers. We live near the end of a long, rough dirt road, and I don't expect too many people to keep coming this far after being turned back, chased off, or worse by the friends/neighbors between us and the nearest paved road, a lightly-traveled backroad miles from a town.

But would I help if someone DID show up? There's too many variables to say absolutely yes or no. Their attitude and willingness to help out in return would count for something, as well as whatever our own situation is. Our preps rely on the ability to continually produce food, and if climatic conditions have changed our ablity to do so, the limited stores we have would be kept for family, period.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I will have an easier time saying NO to people who have ridiculed me for prepping, even family. Children are a different story I will have something for them like oatmeal. I am now a single prepper so things are simpler for me, X and step kids thought I was silly & stupid. I hope in the end I can prove them wrong. :dunno: sail


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## power (May 7, 2011)

I think some people will keep women and children with them just for the purpose of finding people with supplies. Really not many people would turn away a hungry woman or small child. They would be worth their weight in preps for any band looking to loot others. Just send a hungry child up to a house. Let the child stay a day or two before reporting back to his group with details about food, weapons, and other goods.
Sure would make things easier for looters.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

It obviously is a decision that must be made on a case by case basis. But when it comes down to a question of my wife and baby surviving I know who I will choose. 

On the other hand, although I would prefer to stay hidden and not draw attention to myself or my preps, I would have a hard time turning away small children. :surrender:


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

With absolutely no problem. Our preps are life, Why would I take food out of my families mouth and reduce their chances of living to give to someone who was to lazy, or to dumb to see whats happening around them to at least try to prepare for what ever may happen. A prime example is a couple years ago severe ice storms hit our area and knocked out power for over a week during sub freezing temps. We had and still have multiple generators. We had power when no neighbors did. I hooked up one neighbor behind us ( a eldery man who lives alone) to my big generator so he had power for his fridge a couple of lamps and portable heaters. I also lent him a kerosene heater and fueled it for him twice a day. I lent 3 other generators to other neighbors. When power was restored I tlod the ones I loaned generatore it was lucky I had spares and suggested they look into buying one themselves. Only one did. Last winter same thing ice knocked out power no one was prepared. We were with generators, portible electric and kerosene heaters. We loaned a couple suggesting again they get themselves one. None did. about three weeks ago severe storms took out power lines for over a week WELL GUESS WHAT? we didn't loan out anything! Other than hooking our elderly neighbor to our genny. He's in his 70's and really can't afford to buy one. 

People seem to have a entitled attitude and think that they will be taken care of by family,friends, neighbors if something goes wrong. I finally got tired of beating my head against a wall tallking to them and wrote most of them off. My immediate family Mom. sister, brother in law, niece, all prep. Some of my in laws prep. We have discussed meeting at "the retreat' a 70+ acre retirement place the wife and I bought an hour from here if we can. But friends and others have been repeatedly told if TSHTF don't come knocking if you don't have your own supplies. We are not your parents, your spouse, or in any way responsible for them.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

oldsoldier said:


> I hooked up one neighbor behind us (a eldery man who lives alone) to my big generator so he had power for his fridge a couple of lamps.


I only have one neighbor - single lady (w/daughter) that works at a nursing home and really can't prep much other than she tends a nice garden. I'll throw a cord over the fence for their fridge, and that's all the extra help I can offer as well.

It's too bad your neighbors can't get a clue... They should have had enough expereinces by now to change their minds! Too bad for them.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*what can I say?*

I keep to myself. I am a bit of a hermit, although I have friends, some that I see once a year or so. As I said earlier, I just don't answer the door or phone because someone is seeking me out. I answer when I know it is someone I want to talk to or someone that I know is not always looking for me to give them something.

Occassionally, I am caught in the yard. Usually, I try to do my gardening and yard work early in the morning, before most of those grasshopper types are out. But when I am out and get caught by them, I am at a loss to know what to say. One hanger onner has been trying for a couple years to get back in the door. He is very able bodied, but his M.O. is to find who can give to him.

I have thought that if and when it gets really bad, and I get caught, I will be ready to ask the people who might catch me, before they can ask me, "Can you help me? Do you have any food? Can you find some for me?" My thought is that if I ask first, they will not ask me and then I will have to pretend I was stupid enough not to prepare.


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## crikey (Apr 3, 2009)

*yeah right*

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post. Yes, we can only store so much and it is not our responsibility to care for others....or is it? If your a Christian then it is. (argue this till your blue in the face but read your bible then lets talk) I won't get into the details of the Bible, just pick it up and read it.

For those who say they will just shoot somone and answer the door with an AK...you may be in for more trouble than its worth. So you give away some food and save a life. Is that so bad? Remember, there is always someone badder than you and more technical with a gun. Is your life worth a can of beans?

What we plan on doing is having enough people in our little property that we could grow enough food and harvest enough game to feed everyone. There is safety in numbers. Going it alone is for TV and movies. We will share our provisions even though we don't have to and hopefully, we will be rewarded for it. Of course there are limits to this but whos to say GOD won't provide? Store 10 or 20 times more than you need and share at will.

I recently bought some Mora knifes. Instead of buying 3 or 4 which is what I would use for survival, I saved and bought 30. they will come in handy to someone. I can always use them as barter if need be but more than likely, will give one away to a weary traveler if the need hits.

Yep. Everyone here is that one tough guy who can go it alone or with his small family that will live with him/her. Well, what happens when my troop of 100 runs out of food is we can just take it from your smaller troop? You may not think 100 can take out 5 or 10 but 99% of the time, history shows the larger force wins the battle.

Most may want to reconsider their game plan. Thus endeth the lecture.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

crikey said:


> I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post. Yes, we can only store so much and it is not our responsibility to care for others....or is it? If your a Christian then it is. (argue this till your blue in the face but read your bible then lets talk) I won't get into the details of the Bible, just pick it up and read it.
> 
> For those who say they will just shoot somone and answer the door with an AK...you may be in for more trouble than its worth. So you give away some food and save a life. Is that so bad? Remember, there is always someone badder than you and more technical with a gun. Is your life worth a can of beans?
> 
> ...


Understood...I pray about this ALL THE TIME...and then there's the neighbor buying mulch, yard plants, adding two water hydrants in one year, hair coloring and cut jobs with cold checks, excessive spending, excessive traveling, no worry for gas prices for them, and both live on S.S and a California pension check and 'they laugh at me' because of my covered windows in winter and my buckets of rice!!!!!

She already told me they spent their allowance this month--that's what she calls it-- and doesn't have any money till July.

Those are the ones I will turn away---God didn't place me here to care for those lacking in 'personal responsibility'.

I don't have the means and resources to store 10 or 20 times what I need...I sacrifice already for the supplies and food I've stored for the last 2 years.

I have famliy members to feed if they can find the gas to make it 30 miles north to my house, but they probably are the group that will be waiting for the gubermint for their handouts...all others are on their own...since they see the same news I see, read the same articles I read, shop the same stores I do, and buy gas where I do...:sssh:

And sadly, I don't think I'll be rewarded for sharing my provisions; I think I'll be bombarded with relatives and friends of those grasshoppers that didn't prepare who I show christian goodness to by feeding. And that makes me sad...

Glenn Beck--who I don't watch--just caught one snippet one day---said our christian duty is to warn/alert our friends/family/neighbors about the food shortage (duh) and then we've done our duty...I kinda agree with GB with that philosophy.

The brides that didn't get the oil while waiting for the groom??? Just one example...and it wasn't raining when Noah built the ark!!!!

I'm finished!!!

NOt so fast!!!!! "Don't ask God to guide your footsteps if you ain't gonna use your feet"

Now I'm finished!!


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## Ur5hittingMe (May 1, 2011)

crikey said:


> I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post. Yes, we can only store so much and it is not our responsibility to care for others....or is it? If your a Christian then it is. (argue this till your blue in the face but read your bible then lets talk) I won't get into the details of the Bible, just pick it up and read it.
> 
> For those who say they will just shoot somone and answer the door with an AK...you may be in for more trouble than its worth. So you give away some food and save a life. Is that so bad? Remember, there is always someone badder than you and more technical with a gun. Is your life worth a can of beans?
> 
> ...


Without delving so deeply into the religion thing, IMHO. all the WAA WAA cry baby entitlement seeking dependants that feel that someone else should always take care of something for them, IS OVER WTSHTF. In some degree, its that type of depenancy on others mindest that got this country in some of the mess we are in. It will be time to grow your own balls and take care of what ever it is that needs done YOURSELF....
No offense, just my philosphy.


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## power (May 7, 2011)

It would be nice if it was possible to give a hungry person some food and send them on their way. I don't think that will happen. If a person is hungry when they come to your house and you give them some food, what makes people think that person will continue on their way? Probaly you will have another person to provide for. They have no reason to move on. They were hungry and looking for food when they came to your place. You gave them food. Why would they return to hunting for food when you still have some?

It might be possible to store 10-20 times more than you need but what if 25 people show up?


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

crikey said:


> Yep. Everyone here is that one tough guy who can go it alone or with his small family that will live with him/her. Well, what happens when my troop of 100 runs out of food is we can just take it from your smaller troop? You may not think 100 can take out 5 or 10 but 99% of the time, history shows the larger force wins the battle.
> 
> Most may want to reconsider their game plan. Thus endeth the lecture.


I had a big long post to this... but thought better of it... (Nasty ol witch coming out again )

All I will say is my game plan has been put to the test ... no need to reconsider. (but practice makes perfect ... if someone ... christain or not wants to try. )

I hate it anymore when religion is brought into a thread ... :gaah:


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Find a puppy or kitty and feed it, it will stay near you and will beg for more food, even if you kick it to the curb, that animal will know that there is food there and will continue to hang around till you give in and give it more food ... 

Humans are the same as those lost puppies and kitties - you feed them once and they will eat you out of house-n-home in no time flat - when you have nothing left to give, they will take everything else that you have and move on to the next person who will look into their doe-eyes and feel sorry for them and feed them .. repeating the same process over-n-over again.

I do not suggest putting a gun to someone's head so that they leave you alone, but, I will suggest making strangers feel very un-welcome very quickly - for the sake of those you do care for.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

> Without delving so deeply into the religion thing, IMHO. all the WAA WAA cry baby entitlement seeking dependants that feel that someone else should always take care of something for them, IS OVER WTSHTF. In some degree, its that type of depenancy on others mindest that got this country in some of the mess we are in. It will be time to grow your own balls and take care of what ever it is that needs done YOURSELF....
> No offense, just my philosphy


.

THOSE will be the very ones that will pour out of the towns and cities in a mad search for food (and power... *food * will BE power..by that time) , and try to take what we have amassed over the years. We all have to be prepared for this. To not address your physical security is committing suicide


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## power (May 7, 2011)

Centraltn said:


> .
> 
> THOSE will be the very ones that will pour out of the towns and cities in a mad search for food (and power... *food * will BE power..by that time) , and try to take what we have amassed over the years. We all have to be prepared for this. To not address your physical security is committing suicide


I was thinking that type of people might be the least of our problems. They will probably set and wait on help until it is too late or impossible to leave. They have been raised, in some cases for several generations, expecting other to bring them everything they need. They may set tight expecting some one to continue bringing them what they need.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I wouldn't bet the farm on it, Power. Hunger is a powerful motivation.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

crikey said:


> I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post. Yes, we can only store so much and it is not our responsibility to care for others....or is it? If your a Christian then it is. (argue this till your blue in the face but read your bible then lets talk) I won't get into the details of the Bible, just pick it up and read it.


 What about God helps those who help themselves? Or I am not my brothers keeper?


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

JayJay said:


> The brides that didn't get the oil while waiting for the groom??? Just one example...and it wasn't raining when Noah built the ark!!!!


 Another good example of God helps those who help themselves.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Unfortunately "God helps those who help themselves" is found nowhere in the Bible.. actually God helps the helpless.... but then you have to notice that Jesus didnt come to this earth to feed everyone... there are much worse things than starving. Think about it.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

What order does God want you to put people in? Family first? I don't know if that's in the Bible. I know it says a man must see to the needs of his family, and it also mentions helping the widows and children.

God also gave us common sense (most of us?). Not preparing for the physical safety of yourself and your family from possible looters or hoards of desperate people, and assuming God will protect you (because your heart is in the right place?) makes as much sense to me as walking out and sitting in the middle of the freeway and assuming God will protect you, that the drivers will see you and go around you or stop in time. 

The sparrow might not have to worry about food, but it sure spends all it's time out looking for it. God doesn't drop the food in the nest. They might not have to worry about clothing, but then God feathered them and otherwise gave them the means for warmth (even if it means migrating). 

Don't foolishly risk your life and the lives of your loved ones because you think you can feed anyone who comes by, or because you think you'll be safe because you're a Christian. Bless you for being so, and I'm sure your hearts are in the right place, but even missionaries get killed.

And when it comes down to it, surivival might not always be the preferred option, but if people are depending on you, you have a responsibility to do your best to fulfill that.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> What order does God want you to put people in? Family first? I don't know if that's in the Bible. I know it says a man must see to the needs of his family, and it also mentions helping the widows and children.
> 
> God also gave us common sense (most of us?). Not preparing for the physical safety of yourself and your family from possible looters or hoards of desperate people, and assuming God will protect you (because your heart is in the right place?) makes as much sense to me as walking out and sitting in the middle of the freeway and assuming God will protect you, that the drivers will see you and go around you or stop in time.
> 
> ...


Amen, Sister Sue!

I believe God does what he does because he loves you (everyone) but that doesnt mean you dont have to be prepared to make it through the winter (like the squirrel who gathers acorns) or prepared to migrate south (like the bird). God gives you the ability, the info, the where-with-all and blesses you with fuitful returns from your labors but you still have to put forth the effort in most cases. "He who does not work, should not eat" 2 Thessalonians 3:10. I do have to admit that sometimes we are rescued from our own idiocy regardless -- thats Gods grace -- but we shouldnt wallow in our idiocy so that grace abounds.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

BillS said:


> I've been thinking about this: imagine the stock market crashed, there's no power, no water, no stores open. But you and your family have everything you need for a year. What do you do when friends, family, neighbors, or co-workers knock on your door looking for food and shelter? We have a condo. We're barely going to have room for all our stuff and 4 people. I can't take in my sister-in-law and her husband plus my stepson's girlfriend's brother and parents. I plan on not answering the door no matter who it is. Hungry people are desperate people and everybody probably knows 20 people who feel like you owe them food and shelter. I think I might be in the most danger from friends, family, and acquaintances than from complete strangers. Any thoughts on this?


Bug out and you'll never see them.buy a hunk of remote land and park a 2000$ trailer on it and go there.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

We own and live on a remote hunk of land way the heck back off a myriad of seldom-traveled roads and near the end of a tortureously rough dirt "trail", in a little log cabin in a deep forest of pine and aspen trees, back up in the mountains, with a garden, etc.... 

and we still make plans regarding who, why, or what the needs will be of people who might find their way here. 

There is no place you are or could be which doesn't require you give thought to these issues!


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Good for one year?*



BillS said:


> I've been thinking about this: imagine the stock market crashed, there's no power, no water, no stores open. But you and your family have everything you need for a year. What do you do when friends, family, neighbors, or co-workers knock on your door looking for food and shelter? We have a condo. We're barely going to have room for all our stuff and 4 people. I can't take in my sister-in-law and her husband plus my stepson's girlfriend's brother and parents. I plan on not answering the door no matter who it is. Hungry people are desperate people and everybody probably knows 20 people who feel like you owe them food and shelter. I think I might be in the most danger from friends, family, and acquaintances than from complete strangers. Any thoughts on this?


I agree that we will be in the most danger from friends, family and acquaintances.

But, what will you do when a year is up, and things are not back to normal, and never will be? Are you miraculously a farmer who can produce everything you need? Why does being prepared for a year seem to be the magic number that everyone is about? I am not trying to be cruel or sarcastic, I just keep reading this over and over. There seems to be such a box about being prepared for a year, which is better than not being prepared at all, but what about 10 years, or 20 years?

Is anyone prepared for a LONG haul? Or if the SHTF big time, will you be good for one year and then what?


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> What order does God want you to put people in? Family first? I don't know if that's in the Bible. I know it says a man must see to the needs of his family, and it also mentions helping the widows and children.
> 
> God also gave us common sense (most of us?). Not preparing for the physical safety of yourself and your family from possible looters or hoards of desperate people, and assuming God will protect you (because your heart is in the right place?) makes as much sense to me as walking out and sitting in the middle of the freeway and assuming God will protect you, that the drivers will see you and go around you or stop in time.
> 
> ...


Ahhh..Gypsysue, such poetic words to convey what most of us here feel....I'm a christian, but I still don't have the kind of faith that when my provisions are gone, given to those who never learned 'personal responsibility', God will send fishes and loaves abundantly...does that make me a bad christian?? NO, just a weak one.

"If a man will not work, he shall not eat." *IS* in the Bible.
And has our government created enemies for us by forgetting this scripture???

Note: weedygarden...I'm waaaay past 3 years and that's a conservative estimate...got slowed down with 3 broken toes on my foot...but corn should be ready July, first week and I'm thinking about canning corn instead of freezing corn.

As soon as I'm able, or get dh help, we need more dumplings, beef stew, tuna, chicken..all canned, and more rice.

God bless and keep us safe.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

> They may set tight expecting some one to continue bringing them what they need.


They didn't sit and wait during and for weeks after Katrina hit New Orleans. There were shootings, lootings and home invasions. This will be no different, I'm afraid. Maybe worse as time goes on.


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## power (May 7, 2011)

Centraltn said:


> They didn't sit and wait during and for weeks after Katrina hit New Orleans. There were shootings, lootings and home invasions. This will be no different, I'm afraid. Maybe worse as time goes on.


The majority of problems when Katrina hit was in their own neighborhoods. Then the gov. sent them all across the country and they took trouble with them. If the gov wouldn't have provided transportation, food, and money they would have limited themselves to their own neighborhoods.

If anyone lives in that type of neighborhood they would do a lot better if they moved somewhere else.


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## audioguru76 (Jun 10, 2011)

well, wife, daughter and me... all other family is AT LEAST 50 miles away. So, only if bugging out is the only option (which then I'll load up the F350 and scavenge as much diesel as I can) will I try to make it to their rural farmhouse.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

weedygarden said:


> I agree that we will be in the most danger from friends, family and acquaintances.
> 
> But, what will you do when a year is up, and things are not back to normal, and never will be? Are you miraculously a farmer who can produce everything you need? Why does being prepared for a year seem to be the magic number that everyone is about? I am not trying to be cruel or sarcastic, I just keep reading this over and over. There seems to be such a box about being prepared for a year, which is better than not being prepared at all, but what about 10 years, or 20 years?
> 
> Is anyone prepared for a LONG haul? Or if the SHTF big time, will you be good for one year and then what?


From what I've read, the 1 year number serves a few different purposes. For one, it's a long term goal for most folks, a destination of sorts for preps. Secondly, the thinking is a year after the event you will have a plan C worked out. If you think about it, a year's worth of preps should last longer than a year. After all, it's not like you'll be sitting around doing nothing for 365 days as your supplies run out. You'll be gardening, hunting, raising animals, bartering, trading, fishing, gathering, etc. Yes, these skills take time to learn but a lot can be learned in a year. No, you won't suddenly be able to raise all your own food that first year, but you might be able to raise 40%, Which will allow your preps to last another 5 months. Also the LDS church, who puts out a lot of preparedness information, says 1 year of food. That's my understanding. HTH


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

audioguru76 said:


> well, wife, daughter and me... all other family is AT LEAST 50 miles away. So, only if bugging out is the only option (which then I'll load up the F350 and scavenge as much diesel as I can) will I try to make it to their rural farmhouse.


We're the rural place at least 50 miles from the rest of our family, and most of them plan to come here if they have to bug out. We told them to start storing some of their stuff here then, in case they're not able to bug out with supplies. A few have done so, and even that bit of effort will make us feel a lot better 'welcoming' them when TSHTF.

I hope you have time to pack your truck full when you do bug out, but in case you don't, you might want to get a few airtight buckets or something, put some supplies in them, mark your name on them, and store them out there at the rural farmhouse.

Not only is it polite, but our kids/grandkids put in some of their favorite things to eat and it'll be a comfort in a time of turmoil, to open the buckets and see the things they packed.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

It would be hard to turn people away, but you would have to ask yourself...where would it stop? You let one in, then another, then another....

I have been trying to get my extended family on board for themselves. My one brother who lives nearby, a small yard, we offered him a plot to grow stuff on to put away for tough times, he said he really could not care a whole lot about it, _SO_.....looks like he feels nothing bad will ever happen. Other five siblings just do not want to deal with it, maybe like that kid with their fingers in their ears "la-la, I can't hear you".

My mother is alone, father passed away 7 years ago, and she is planning for herself. My oldest (married, two kids and out of the house) shops like me, and always stocks up when she can, but they are in a tiny apartment and their income right now is strained to it's extreme, so we plan to stock up for having them out here.

We also plan to have a stash of seeds, this way we have future food. Storing up lots of grains too, either for immediate food, sprouting or planting. If it came to it and someone came to me, I would offer them some seeds and tell them to get busy (like we have already been)!

Doing what you can to encourage people to think ahead. Tell them for nothing more than a natural disaster, but if something worse happens, they will have what they need, just practical, not being a conspiracy theorist (as so many would label us).


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Hard Choices*

Think of your preparations this way.

You are building a life boat.

You are only able to build it to a certain size and provision it for a certain number.

The number of people you can save, may vary according to the weather and condition of the ship.

While the ship is afloat, on deck is the place to be.

When it becomes clear the ship is sinking, you will want to cast off in your life boat.

There are the people who are assigned to your life boat and people you will find adrift in the sea.

If the weather is fair some of the people adrift may cling to your lifeboat but they can not get in.

All the seats are occupied by those who were assigned to your boat.

If it begins to storm , it will take a strong captain and a full crew just to keep it afloat and survive the storm.

A captain must save the greatest number he can and if that means throwing someone overboard who will not row or rows against the crew, that is his duty to do so or all will perish !

How about it Captain ?


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## power (May 7, 2011)

BillM said:


> Think of your preparations this way.
> 
> You are building a life boat.
> 
> ...


Very good description and very true.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

Bill, that is a perfect explanation. May I share those words of wisdom with others?


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> God also gave us common sense (most of us?).


 Agree IMO I also think he gave each of us a concious so we can decide right from wrong and the right thing to do. While some feel lled to help others whatever the cost to themselves, Then i say go for it if God leads you that way. However I myself feel in my heart that my family's safety and security comes first. So I'll do whatever it takes to care for them.

Now if it's a short term situstion I have and do try to help those who need my help. However I don't feel that someone who is lazy or like a couple of neighbors refuse to help themselves with the attitude of "someone else will take care of me" then they are on their own. I will help anyone who at least tries to help themselves.

Long term though with no likleyhood of help anytime soon.......... That's a different story. Now if that makes me a non christian well then so be it but I think not.


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## lojo216 (May 18, 2011)

Gypsysue,

Common sense isn't as common as it used to be!


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

lojo216 said:


> Gypsysue,
> 
> Common sense isn't as common as it used to be!


I heard where Common Sense passed over ...  ... and if you read the news ...well ... (dang, now I need to look up that post. :gaah: lol)


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

*Andi said:


> I heard where Common Sense passed over ...  ... and if you read the news ...well ... (dang, now I need to look up that post. :gaah: lol)


'Common sense' got scratched off the curriculum list along with 'personal responsibility'....did'n'ya hear??:gaah:

Sports needed boosting!!!:nuts:


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

JayJay said:


> 'Common sense' got scratched off the curriculum list along with 'personal responsibility'....did'n'ya hear??:gaah:


 Wasn't that right after respect for others and honesty went bye bye ?:dunno:


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

I knew I had read it somewhere, Common Sence did pass over found his obit and made a post in General Chat ...

He will be missed ...


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

JayJay, I agree with you, there are too many people who live like their is no tomorrow and refuse to live responsibly, and being raised in a society where parents handed over way too much and a government that bails out way too much, they feel entitled to live it up then put out their hands when things go awry instead of planning ahead.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Weedy Garden: here's my crack at answering your one year question from a few posts back. My thoughts on this are that by the time one year passes the acute part of a SHTF will have passed, even a big event. There may still be a big hole in the ground from where the meteor hit, but the fires will be out. We may still not have power, but those still alive will have learned to do without it. People will no longer be in shock, no longer just looking around blinking and saying "WTF just happened?" 

Within that one year, whoever survives will have time to have begun sorting out who around them is still alive, do cars/electronics still work/what's left from the floods/fires/fallout you name it. Unless an area (local or the whole planet) is totally wrecked survivors will be able to start doing what needs done to plant new crops, restructure new, local economies and infrastructures, and set up for the way that life will be, even if that new way of live is a total reversion to horse and handsaw days. 

The looters will most likely have come and gone and killed each other off. I'd expect that the initial wave of looters will last for a good while but not a year. Of course there will always be criminals and in a total throwback situation justice may be more "eye for an eye" than "I'm calling the cops". I would think that after that first year the sheeple will have all been coralled into camps and arenas and be too sick to wander off and become looters.

As for me I'm on a farm not really far at all from the city and a lot of small towns so I would expect looters, which honestly does make me nervous. I've got no problem saying no or chasing someone off but I'd expect any confrontation with desperate people to be unpleasant at best, hostile or at least emotionally traumatizing at the worst.

That's my 2 cents on it.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Weedy Garden, I think people pick a year because anything greater would be overwhelming or insurmountable. For me a year is a goal to work towards. I started at having enough for 3 months, then 6 months, now a year. Also, a year seems like it is enough time for things to have settled where we can see what is going to happen with the power grid or the government or whatever we coping with.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

crikey said:


> Yep. Everyone here is that one tough guy who can go it alone or with his small family that will live with him/her. Well, what happens when my troop of 100 runs out of food is we can just take it from your smaller troop? You may not think 100 can take out 5 or 10 but 99% of the time, history shows the larger force wins the battle.
> 
> Most may want to reconsider their game plan. Thus endeth the lecture.


As much as I hate to really respond to this, you really need to re-study your history.

It generally takes 4:1 ratio when an offensive force takes on a defensive force to be sucessful. And even at that, is your "troop of 100" willing to take 40-70% losses to obtain food? You obliviously think you have a right to it?

I can promise unless you are a trained military force, my little 4-8 "troop" will inflict grievously terrible causalities opon you and at the point where we see it's over for us, we will leave nothing for you to use.

"You may want to reconsider your game plan." And I'm sure this lecture is not over....as the whole tone of your post is very aggressive and dangerous in your thought process.

I'm a peaceful easy going guy, till you fool with me or mine. I would much rather be able to remain peaceful and easy going if times turn for the worse.

Jimmy


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## crikey (Apr 3, 2009)

Interesting post considering you have no idea who I am or what I am about. Aggressive? Hardly. Thats just not me. I do think its OK to point out other view points on a public forum though. Perhaps someone will be able to garner something from it. I am just pointing out there is value in numbers and seldom is a smaller force successful in deterring a larger force. (100 to 4 is a bit more than 4 to 1 mate) Plus when people are hungry, they may be willing to sacrifice their lives to feed their families. I would gladly lay down my life for my family to be well fed in that situation.

none-the-less, it was not really the point of my post. A large community also has more to offer in terms of labor, experience and abilities. Hey man, keep your small 4 people together, I don't care. I seriously doubt SHTF will ever happen, at least not in my life time. I hope it doesn't at least cause if its a serious world issue, half of us on this board will not survive anyways so its all for naught.

As for me and my family, our game plan is there is safety in numbers and we will prepare accordingly. You all are welcome to come if and when your supplies are diminished. Just be ready to help around the compound. 



Jimmy24 said:


> As much as I hate to really respond to this, you really need to re-study your history.
> 
> It generally takes 4:1 ratio when an offensive force takes on a defensive force to be sucessful. And even at that, is your "troop of 100" willing to take 40-70% losses to obtain food? You obliviously think you have a right to it?
> 
> ...


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Jimmy24 said:


> As much as I hate to really respond to this, you really need to re-study your history.
> 
> It generally takes 4:1 ratio when an offensive force takes on a defensive force to be sucessful. And even at that, is your "troop of 100" willing to take 40-70% losses to obtain food? You obliviously think you have a right to it?
> 
> ...


Well said, Jimmy...someone needs to rethink their strategic ideas...we here after TSHTF are not contemplating taking out Afghanistan's Taliban or Al Qaeda.....we are mama bears and papa bears fighting for our baby bears' food, safety, and survival...
We might just be the 101st Airborne on 'steroids'!!!!!

The 'old school' rules didn't change for the looters, soldiers, and mercenaries?? Well, meet PAPA BEAR....with a new 'rule book'.:congrat:


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

crikey said:


> Yep. Everyone here is that one tough guy who can go it alone or with his small family that will live with him/her. Well, what happens when my troop of 100 runs out of food is we can just take it from your smaller troop? You may not think 100 can take out 5 or 10 but 99% of the time, history shows the larger force wins the battle.
> 
> Most may want to reconsider their game plan. Thus endeth the lecture.


Crikey the first time I read this I just about fell out of my chair laughing. I thought "what an a$$. But then I read it again. In a somewhat agressive way you made a good point. There will be "preditors" following any incident. Look at the aftermath of incidents like Katrina.

We all must be prepared for them. It may mean standing up and blowing a few of them away. We had just better get ready for it. Sadly most people can't or won't be able to take another human life.

I fortunatlly or unfortionatly being Ex- specops can and have.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

crikey said:


> I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post. Yes, we can only store so much and it is not our responsibility to care for others....or is it? If your a Christian then it is. (argue this till your blue in the face but read your bible then lets talk) I won't get into the details of the Bible, just pick it up and read it.
> 
> For those who say they will just shoot somone and answer the door with an AK...you may be in for more trouble than its worth. So you give away some food and save a life. Is that so bad? Remember, there is always someone badder than you and more technical with a gun. Is your life worth a can of beans?
> 
> ...


Well to start with, you title your post with "yeah right" and then start it off by saying "I am going to have to respectfully disagree with almost everyone on this post." That is just a bunch of fluff and saying, you know better than anyone else on this forum/thread. Well friend, opinons are everywhere, everyone has one, yours is no different AND welcome until you present it the way you did, which can make hackles rise and put people on the defense from the get-go.

Then you lead in to cya that your some sort of gentle Christian who buys more than he needs and whose group will raise so much food you will be able to feed everyone. WOW, that is some bunch you have. Oh BTW, why would they need to attack a smaller group if they raise so much food?

In your vast knowledge though, you may not realize that some of us may not be able to be a member of a large group of people. If you have 100 people in your group that's great, but if you think anyone will believe your belligerent attitude well, you won't gain much footing.

As you so smoothly said, you have no idea who I am, nor what I'm about, but it's ok for you to lump everyone into a category.

Who's leading this flock? You? or have you elected someone to be in charge or make major decisions. Or does everyone have an equal say?

And finally mate, your "group" would be welcome, if you came in peace. You are the one who is the "tough guy" and saying what your group would take from the smaller group. Rethink the way you want your post to be taken and make sure it says it in a way you really want. You may mean well, sir, but you say you will do the very thing you condemn all of us for.

Jimmy


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Well said, Jimmy...someone needs to rethink their strategic ideas...we here after TSHTF are not contemplating taking out Afghanistan's Taliban or Al Qaeda.....we are mama bears and papa bears fighting for our baby bears' food, safety, and survival...
> We might just be the 101st Airborne on 'steroids'!!!!!
> 
> The 'old school' rules didn't change for the looters, soldiers, and mercenaries?? Well, meet PAPA BEAR....with a new 'rule book'.:congrat:


Thanks Jay Jay, I just thought people should be very careful when they try to lump everyone into a group. That's why this forum is here. I will defend anyone's right to say what they want, but if they say something that offends someone, they should be ready.

We are all as you say mama and papa bears trying to have our share of honey, but if the wolf comes to pick on my cubs, beware, the pack will suffer.

Jimmy


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*In a lawless situation,*

In a lawless situation, can you turn away a mob with deadly force?

Possibly !

Can you repel a few looters ? Yes if you make it look way more attractive to go elsewhere.

Can you repel a trained , disciplined force with authority real or imagined?

Unlikely!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Know what bothers me as much as most things I can't control...
This 'community' BS involvement, 'scout club' mentality instructing me to get with a group.
KNow what??
I live on a street with 9 other houses full of people...don't know the names of some, and have tried to integrate myself...hey, it did not work....AND I made the mistake of alerting 3 of them that I store lots of food and supplies, have a water filter, wood burning stove, a coleman cooker for emergencies, a generator...get the picture?
I can't undo that!!!!
So, now what am I to do??
My advice is to not tell a soul about your preps...EVER!!!!:beercheer:

I bought this house for the double windows all around it---geeZe, will be a nightmare if TSHTF!!

Edit: I told 4 people; one near this street..she preps???? I think...she emailed me one day sooooo darn excited she bought 3, yep, 3 cans of spaghetti sauce on sale at DG.
Now, you see why I am on my own???:scratch


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I can say this in referance to Christians not being able to say no. Sure enough, we need to do something for people. Say some family with two little kids come knocking at my door after all you-know-what breaks loose. We plan to have plenty, plus live animals reproducing (which they are right now) and stored food.

So do we say "sorry should have planned ahead"? Or should we offer them some staples to get them through? Since we have a breeding population of animals for meat and by-product, and plenty stored seeds, I say we go ahead and give them a little to get them by, maybe some seed packets for planting to give them some food, and send them on their way.

I could not just slam the door on someone in true need. I could on someone toting a gun or making demands, or acting in a way which was criminal or suggested criminal intent.

Family first though, but I could not turn away children.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

IMHO no one knows how they will respond until a situation presents itself. All we can do is be prepared for as many different scenarios as possible. Prepare for the worst and pray for the best.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

No, I'm afraid I can't say no. Thats why I made those bartering kits. They arent giveaways. They will have to do some kind of work for it.. cut some firewood and stack it or hoe the garden.. but I'll give them fishing kits(we live near a lake) so they can feed themselves and a tube tent and mess kit to get a start at a campsite to keep themselves out of the elements and some drink mixes.... lemonade and tank... some coffee stuff, oatmeals...cornmeal and lil amt of cooking oil. I have more- towels, washrags, hair brushes and combs etc etc for the ones that arent at my door all the time but return now and then. I have alot of soup mixes to share too. As Ive said before- I dont mind sharing but I have to PLAN for it so that I'm not takiing it out of my families mouths.. and if those I give to get pushy- I push back in a bit more deadly manner.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

Let me be clear, I would not say no either as long as whomever has come for help is "asking" not demanding. Also if they are just wanting a small provision so to continue on, I'm sure I would give them food and water. If they ask to stay on, then things change. There will be requirements that they will become part of the "team". And it will take a while to build trust to fully integrate them in. If they "Talk the Talk, they will have to "Walk the Walk"....

Now you come to me and mine demanding, you will be told nicely one time to move on. Not a 2nd time. 

I'm sure things might be easier with a large group. But if it is a large group, there WILL be issues. With things in a state of constant flux due to whatever caused said situation, that could cause major problems.

And as far as not being able get along on your own, well that's just pure BS. We have many folks on this forum who at this time are getting along on their own as homesteaders. Now that is coined word, but that is what they are doing, and I so admire them for it. It is a goal of mine.

Peace.

Jimmy


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## power (May 7, 2011)

People make it on their own now and could if SHTF. Actually should be a lot easier for one person to make it than a group. The only problem would be defense and that could be solved also.

If SHTF ever happens there will be many who change their minds about what they will do. Most people have never ever been truly hungry. Try one thing, go one week without food. If you can't do that why would a person think they will gladly share their food with others. Sharing sounds good as long as we are not hungry. When a person gets hungry things change. It is impossible to say what you will do when you haven't ever been hungry.


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## frankd4 (Oct 22, 2010)

I cannot say that I would do this or that because every situation is going to be different all I can do is prep for my family and then some as much as I can afford and pray for guidance on the rest of the stuff.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

power said:


> People make it on their own now and could if SHTF. Actually should be a lot easier for one person to make it than a group. The only problem would be defense and that could be solved also.
> 
> If SHTF ever happens there will be many who change their minds about what they will do. *Most people have never ever been truly hungry*. Try one thing, go one week without food. If you can't do that why would a person think they will gladly share their food with others. *Sharing sounds good as long as we are not hungry. When a person gets hungry things change. It is impossible to say what you will do when you haven't ever been hungry*.


right, there's a big difference in missing a meal hungry and missing fifteen meals, even if you have water.
Groups will start to argue and fight when the food gets low, they'll acuse each other of cheating and stealing the food and I don't care how close they are, brother may not fight with brother, but watch their wives go at it after they're cooped up a few months and get hungry. Another reason to go at it alone or with just the emediate family.

Just picture yourself being up north in the winter with a couple days food left and you know that everyone within miles is in the same boat, *what would you do?*


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## Quills (Jun 14, 2011)

power said:


> I think some people will keep women and children with them just for the purpose of finding people with supplies. Really not many people would turn away a hungry woman or small child. They would be worth their weight in preps for any band looking to loot others. Just send a hungry child up to a house. Let the child stay a day or two before reporting back to his group with details about food, weapons, and other goods.
> Sure would make things easier for looters.


As hard as I would find it to turn away a child, the above bears consideration.

If it ever gets to that point, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I know I'd find it hard to turn children away. The problem is, if it ever gets to that point -- long term, you have to grow/collect MORE food, and to do so, you have to expose yourself (garden, livestock, etc.) -- a sustainable system doesn't really take place in your basement.

People are going to KNOW who has food and supplies, for the simple reason that they'll just be the ones who aren't starving to death.


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## power (May 7, 2011)

Quills said:


> As hard as I would find it to turn away a child, the above bears consideration.
> 
> If it ever gets to that point, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I know I'd find it hard to turn children away. The problem is, if it ever gets to that point -- long term, you have to grow/collect MORE food, and to do so, you have to expose yourself (garden, livestock, etc.) -- a sustainable system doesn't really take place in your basement.
> 
> People are going to KNOW who has food and supplies, for the simple reason that they'll just be the ones who aren't starving to death.


Check into bioshelters. Might give you a little info about producing enough food for a family without the need to expose yourself so much.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

CentralTN, I can agree with predicting the need for helping others in time of crisis. 

There are plenty of times you could think that someones foolishness in not thinking ahead is their own problem, and to some degree it is, but giving them a hand up, by offering some self help supplies is best.


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## Ridgerunner (Oct 27, 2008)

I am working on getting as prepared as I can with the funds that are available.

I am Sure that no matter how much I think I am prepared there will be something that I will find I need. There may be those that have what I need that are not so prepared as I. This is where trading comes in. 

And you will have more to bargain with than those who don't prep.

So do not turn someone away until you know what they have to offer.

I would have a hard time as well turning a Child away but I would put there parents to work earning there keep


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## GreyWolf (Mar 17, 2010)

lotsoflead said:


> right, there's a big difference in missing a meal hungry and missing fifteen meals, even if you have water.
> Groups will start to argue and fight when the food gets low, they'll acuse each other of cheating and stealing the food and I don't care how close they are, brother may not fight with brother, but watch their wives go at it after they're cooped up a few months and get hungry. Another reason to go at it alone or with just the emediate family.


I know in a long term SHTF situation seveal of my extended family members would form a large group on some family owned land. The problem is I know it will get ugly real quick when the food starts to run out. For that reason I have not planned to join them on the land and if possible will stay where I am.



HoppeEL4 said:


> CentralTN, I can agree with predicting the need for helping others in time of crisis.
> 
> There are plenty of times you could think that someones foolishness in not thinking ahead is their own problem, and to some degree it is, but giving them a hand up, by offering some self help supplies is best.


Self help supplies makes sense, but what type of supplies would you include? I've put together several small fishing kits to give or trade but that is about all I've considered at this point. Not sure how much more I could do in a long term situation.


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## Centraltn (Feb 21, 2011)

Greywolf, its easy enough to help someone a little. Like I said.. help them to help themselves.. fishing kits, tube tents or space blankets,3 piece mess kits or home made ones made from cans (I'm doing this now), cheap small tarps, tube tents. Pocket knives, styrofoam cups. These are just some of the few things that will assist almost anyone in a bad situation, and help them to survive on their own.
Put them to work, hand them a barter kit and send them on their way. I wouldn't WANT to have to get tough, but if I have to..... but then thats what the hubby and brother are for huh.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

All the above could happen, people keeping the kids and women around to beg for stuff, to find out who has things needed. A small survival kit would be smart, and make it appear you are scrounging, meaning keep all of your large quantities hidden, and whats in the house sparse.

I know if things really got bad, and hoping and praying it does not, but the times we are in, and with gangs running amok, criminals as bold as they are...well, it could be scary, anyways...if they got that bad, I would certainly be securing what we had in a spot that we only knew about.


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