# Sundanzer DCF390 Solar Powered Freezer



## squerly

Does anyone have any experience with Sundanzer products? I need a chest freezer and one that I can power from solar panels is preferred. This unit seems to be the state-of-the-art unit for solar application.


DCF390 Specifications​

 Operating voltage 12 to 31 VDC with auto detect and low voltage disconnect​
 Energy use 800 watt-hours per day at 90 F 32 C at 10 F -12 C​
 Interior volume 14.7 cubic feet 390 liters​
 Exterior dimensions 63.4 x 28.75 x 34.25 inches 161 x 73 x 87 cm WxDxH​
 Shipping dimensions 66.5 x 31.1 x 36.6 inches 169 x 79 x 93 cm WxDxH​
 Shipping weight 175 pounds 79.4 kilograms​
 Super-insulated cabinet 3.5 inches 9 cm of polyurethane insulation​
 Powder-coated galvanized steel exterior and aluminum interior​
 Interior floor drain hole​
 Environmentally friendly CFC-free refrigerant R-134a​

Link


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## jnrdesertrats

I don't know about the freezer but the greenhouse ventilation fans look promising. I was looking to cool our greenhouse using solar and had to scrap the idea because I was not finding what I needed. Those fans would work, but I already installed 120v stuff. Sorry for the hijack but that website has some cool stuff.


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## cowboyhermit

Any freezer can be powered with solar (with an inverter). Those dc models are very good imo although the price is* significant* I don't really know anyone who bought one that isn't happy with it (assuming they got the right size, etc).

The cost though, is the tricky thing. To some (like me), being able to run it straight from the batteries is a huge deal while for others the reduced cost of the 120V units is the deciding factor, and they are going to be using an inverter anyways.


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## readytogo

http://sunshineworks.com/solar-powered-freezer-dcf390.htm

Friend had one,no batteries,just solar panels,keep everything nice and cold,never had a problem till it was stolen,oh well.


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## Tirediron

I still don't get why the heat sink is in the walls, they have to know someone off the grid is looking for maximum efficiency, I guess I will just have to design a remote heat removal freezer or fridge my self.


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## squerly

Tirediron said:


> I guess I will just have to design a remote heat removal freezer or fridge my self.


Should I hold off on the purchase for awhile?


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> I still don't get why the heat sink is in the walls, they have to know someone off the grid is looking for maximum efficiency, I guess I will just have to design a remote heat removal freezer or fridge my self.


I wonder as well.

It must be because there's enough R value between interior skin and exterior skin....

Also, I am pretty sure I read once that they start with a plain ol' normal consumer chest freezer, convert it, and add "their own" nameplate....


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## squerly

LincTex said:


> Also, I am pretty sure I read once that they start with a plain ol' normal consumer chest freezer, convert it, and add "their own" nameplate....


If that turns out to be the case, would you consider it to be a lack of innovation or a creative use of existing technologies?


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## Tirediron

Probably a bit of both, combined with a market afraid of change from the norm. people often have a very narrow comfort zone. Necessity is the mother of invention, and A/C power is cheap right now so not enough pressure to make things more efficient. An outside heat sink would cost a couple of hundred dollars more, and for peak efficiency the refrigerant charge would have to be variable to take advantage of cooler ambient temperatures etc. 
And for a remote heat sink to work really efficiently it would need to be able to be placed outside of the house in summer so as not to add heat to the interior, where as you might want to retain that heat in cooler temperatures, or use the outside temp to your advantage for less compressor run time, if heat was easier to make than power.


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## cowboyhermit

On the subject of remote coolers, the parts and kits are available to make them. Usually these are for making walk-in coolers/freezers but the parts are all the same. For really efficient (and/or DC) units, boat suppliers have the good stuff. Many people with ocean going boats make custom sized and built in freezers so the parts are available as kits, a lot of them use a water heat exchange but some use air as well.

The big problem with them is $$$


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## squerly

You may be right Linktex. Copied from Sundanzer's website.



> By forming strategic alliances with world-class refrigerator manufacturers, SunDanzer has been able to bring cutting edge technology into the remote homes of customers at a very low cost.


This may just be another way of saying "We use somebody's else's box."

But be that as it may, the reviews on their units are very positive. When doing a google search on "sundanzer" I found some posts from 2006 where someone was awaiting the arrival of their Sundanzer. I contacted them (via the forum they were on) and they said the unit was running as well today as it did when they bought it, 8 years ago. Another person chimed in with the same report on a unit that was 12 years old.

My guess is they must be doing something right if their user base is happy after this many years. And while the price may be high ($1,525 with shipping) I'm looking at it this way. For the same money I could add another AR15 to my collection, which will probably sit in the safe more than it gets fired. Or I could add a solar powered chest freezer to my prep's, use it daily and watch it protect my food during times of extended power outages.

It's a no-brainer in my book. :2thumb:


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## LincTex

squerly said:


> For the same money .... I could add a solar powered chest freezer to my prep's, use it daily and watch it protect my food during times of extended power outages. It's a no-brainer in my book.


Not really. For the money, it's still cheaper (better?) to just use a normal freezer and supply it with home-made A/C power. Pure-sine inverters are not too much money anymore.


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## Marcus

LincTex said:


> Not really. For the money, it's still cheaper (better?) to just use a normal freezer and supply it with home-made A/C power. Pure-sine inverters are not too much money anymore.


But you end up losing out on the efficiency of the inverter. So you end up needing more batteries and/or solar cells for the same output.

I'd contact the company and see how much they charge for just the motor and which name brand freezers it will work in.

Then I'd buy the name brand freezer (AC) and only buy the DC motor from SunDanzer. You can always switch out the motors if the grid goes down.


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## LincTex

Marcus said:


> But you end up losing out on the efficiency of the inverter. So you end up needing more batteries and/or solar cells for the same output.


Yes, but it's STILL cheaper when you do the math.

Pure sine inverters are NOT "that much" more expensive, nor are they "that much" less efficient.

Those DC only freezers are crazy amounts of money (that would be better spent elsewhere)!!


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## LincTex

Marcus said:


> ...only buy the DC motor from SunDanzer. You can always switch out the motors if the grid goes down.


No, not easily at all - - unless you are very familiar with how to properly evacuate and charge a refrigerant based cooling system. Those compressor motor are sealed, yo - - long gone are the days of separate motors and compressors.


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## squerly

The additional cost is immaterial considering the simplicity of running it directly off a battery. Using an off-the-shelf freezer from Lowes requires extra parts (inverter, extra batteries, etc.) which are just additional cogs in the wheel in a serious SHTF environment.

An EMP will send an inverter to the scrap pile, not so with the battery. Not to say it wouldn’t take out the freezer too, but in my opinion, the less moving parts the better.


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## cowboyhermit

I really think it's like I said before, it is just a matter of priorities and individual preferences. 

From an economic point of view, the last time I looked at the figures the dc models were very marginal, largely because the price of panels has gone down so much. A couple hundred bucks (savings on a AC vs DC) can buy you a surprising amount of panel wattage these days. 

I wouldn't call the inverter a "moving part" but I agree with simplicity if at all feasible. I often buy DC items that might cost a bit more, just because I prefer it (knowing it may not be the most economical decision). The problem with these is that the price difference seems steep, it is certainly steeper than the difference in parts. It is a specialty item vs. a commodity, really.

If a EMP were to take out an inverter then the charge controller would be similarly likely to be effected so, unless you have a back-up you are going to have problems. If you are going to have an inverter in the system then having a back-up is something you are going to consider anyways I think.

In the end, for me personally, if the DC units were close in price I wouldn't hesitate for a second to recommend them (A DC motor really doesn't cost much more to produce). As it is, I think if someone decides to buy one it should not be for the economics (unless the numbers come out differently in their particular situation) and they should be aware that they are paying a premium.


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## LincTex

A few years ago on here I proposed using a windmill driven shaft to belt drive an automotive A/C compressor to power fridge or freezer. If you are worried about EMP, then perhaps that is a possibility to explore.

If it came to that, it would be best to build it into a root cellar and just forget about a freezer, because then we are back to the good ol' days at that point.


Don't be so fast to discount the inverter idea - you only need to run the freezer for a little while each day, and it'll stay cold for many hours. You can then use that inverter throughout the day for powering other items than just the freezer.


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## zimmy

Why not build a stand alone system that will not only power your freezer but also other ac devices like refrigerator, freezer, well pump, and propane heater. If you are worried about EMP just build your system with redundant backup. For every two solar modules I have one mppt charge controller, they down convert 48vdc to 24vdc so if one charge controller goes bad the system won't stop working. The trace inverter goes into standby mode when no load is sensed thus saving battery power. The batteries are over 20 yrs old and still work fine, and this system has been powering ac equipment for many years with no problems.


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## squerly

zimmy said:


> Why not build a stand alone system that will not only power your freezer but also other ac devices like refrigerator, freezer, well pump, and propane heater. If you are worried about EMP just build your system with redundant backup. For every two solar modules I have one mppt charge controller, they down convert 48vdc to 24vdc so if one charge controller goes bad the system won't stop working. The trace inverter goes into standby mode when no load is sensed thus saving battery power. The batteries are over 20 yrs old and still work fine, and this system has been powering ac equipment for many years with no problems.


Very nice setup! If I had a setup like that I wouldn't even be looking at the DC freezer. 

OK then, looks like were jumping from a $1,200.00 DC freezer into a very nice solar setup. As long as were deviating from the original post, I've got a couple of questions. How are you charging that many batteries with (what looks like) no more than 8 panels? Also, I've never heard of batteries lasting 20 years, no matter how well they are taken care of (even Exide batteries).


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## zimmy

Cells (battery bank) were bought through the government disposal program many years ago at the time I had a bidders identification card. I believe the date stamp on the bottom said mfr 1983, they were dry when I bought them and spent part of their life in my garage without acid in them. The plates look to be about 3/8" thick and have special plate material with spirals or circles of lead embedded into the plates, also there is 2" to 3" of space from the bottom of the plates to the bottom of the case, they hold a charge very well with very little plate material on the bottom.

Eight panels at 210 watts each wired series parallel 48 volts into the mppt 24 volts out to the batteries keeps all the cells charged. The inverter will only outputs power when it senses a load.


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## squerly

zimmy said:


> Cells (battery bank) were bought through the government disposal program many years ago at the time I had a bidders identification card. I believe the date stamp on the bottom said mfr 1983, they were dry when I bought them and spent part of their life in my garage without acid in them. The plates look to be about 3/8" thick and have special plate material with spirals or circles of lead embedded into the plates, also there is 2" to 3" of space from the bottom of the plates to the bottom of the case, they hold a charge very well with very little plate material on the bottom.
> 
> Eight panels at 210 watts each wired series parallel 48 volts into the mppt 24 volts out to the batteries keeps all the cells charged. The inverter will only outputs power when it senses a load.


I'm envious. So this is a back up system, not something that you use daily?


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## zimmy

Pics of cells without acid, notice the special plate material, I believe they are called Manchester plates. 

System is used every day but also grid tie.


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## squerly

I'm gonna need some help on the math. Do you have 8 or 16 batteries in the bank? I'm assuming 2 volts each? Even if there are 16 batteries, and with 240 AMP each (wired in series), isn't that a max of 480 AMP's?


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## zimmy

Two rows, twelve cells in a row, each row in series, both rows in parallel.


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## squerly

Yes, that makes much more sense. I was trying to count the batteries from the picture and I couldn't see all of them. It's certainly a nice system, you must have a very understanding wife...


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## LincTex

squerly said:


> Yes, that makes much more sense. I was trying to count the batteries from the picture and I couldn't see all of them. It's certainly a nice system, you must have a very understanding wife...


You could have the same, just sell the Porsche!


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## squerly

LincTex said:


> You could have the same, just sell the Porsche!


Heresy!


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## squerly

It appears they use the Electrolux Kelvinator Chest Freezer as their box and then build it out from there. Electrolux Kelvinator I couldn't find an Electrolux unit (on the EL website) with the same dimensions so perhaps it's a unit especially built for Sundanzer.


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## LincTex

A freezer should be a really easy item to find with a bad compressor (to experiment on)

I'd like to see what compressor Sundanzer installs....


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## LincTex

Close!!! 

Nova Kool Lt201F Condensing Unit
http://www.altestore.com/store/Refr...eezers/Nova-Kool-Lt201F-Condensing-Unit/p837/

http://www.myboatsgear.com/marine-refrigeration


















http://www.udpf.com/mz5fe6693/sale-...r_dispenser_boat_fridge_qdzh30g-z5458ac3.html









http://www.gophoto.us/key/12 volt fridge compressor

http://pt.aliexpress.com/item/DC-12...tor-small-freezer-for-car-ship/751588657.html


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## squerly

Guess what arrived today?  This thing is huge, you can put bodies in it! I've got a pig to put in it, just have to shoot it, dress it out, and cut/wrap it up. Come to think of it I haven't seen him in awhile. Might have to put some corn out...


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## zimmy

Nice, very, very nice! I didn't realize SunDanzer was affiliated with Electrolux the vacuum cleaner company? Keep us posted on how you like it.


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## LincTex

squerly said:


> Guess what arrived today? This thing is huge,...


Can you take pictures of the compressor area, please?

Also, what size wires do they recommend?
What amperage does it draw?
How do you plan to power it?



zimmy said:


> I didn't realize SunDanzer was affiliated with Electrolux ...


Electrolux is HUGE. 
They own a bunch of stuff, including Husqvarna chainsaws!!
All Craftsman riding mowers are Electrolux.


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## squerly

LincTex said:


> Can you take pictures of the compressor area, please?
> 
> Also, what size wires do they recommend?
> What amperage does it draw?
> How do you plan to power it?


The unit will run on either 12 or 24 volts. I'm leaning toward 24 but not certain just yet. Wattage/Amps are:


800 Watts per day
@12 volts = 67 Amps
@ 24 volts = 35.5

Recommended cable size is between 8 & 12 gauge, depending on how cable length.


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## cowboyhermit

squerly said:


> The unit will run on either 12 or 24 volts. I'm leaning toward 24 but not certain just yet. Wattage/Amps are:
> 
> 
> 800 Watts per day
> @12 volts = 67 Amps
> @ 24 volts = 35.5
> 
> Recommended cable size is between 8 & 12 gauge, depending on how cable length.


Watts is an instantaneous measurement, Wh (watt hours) is likely what you mean. That is 800 watts for an hour or 100 watts for 8 hours. Not nitpicking, just for the sake of clarity.

Do you already have an alternative energy setup or are you going to be using an AC charger in the mean time? Should only need a few amps of battery charger to handle that unit.


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## squerly

cowboyhermit said:


> Watts is an instantaneous measurement, Wh (watt hours) is likely what you mean. That is 800 watts for an hour or 100 watts for 8 hours. Not nitpicking, just for the sake of clarity.


Sorry, that's exactly what I meant. 800 watt hours per day. But I don't know if a "day" is 12 hours or 24? I would have thought a day was 24 hours but maybe hours are measured differently with respect to ref/freezer usage?



cowboyhermit said:


> Do you already have an alternative energy setup or are you going to be using an AC charger in the mean time? Should only need a few amps of battery charger to handle that unit.


Until my solar setup is complete I was going to use an AC-DC converter, which I don't yet have.


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## cowboyhermit

squerly said:


> Sorry, that's exactly what I meant. 800 watt hours per day. But I don't know if a "day" is 12 hours or 24? I would have thought a day was 24 hours but maybe hours are measured differently with respect to ref/freezer usage?
> 
> Until my solar setup is complete I was going to use an AC-DC converter, which I don't yet have.


It should definitely be 24 hours. Ouch, that will be a pricy converter, no? You would only need a battery and something like a 12V 4A automotive charger to run it. Of course something with more amps available, and/or an "intelligent" charger would be best. Still should be cheaper and more useful in the long run if it would work under the circumstances.


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## squerly

I have a battery and smart charger, several actually. Just was looking for a cleaner setup. Was looking at this converter for $25.00. Supposed to handle items up to 6 amps.


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## LincTex

squerly said:


> 800 Watts per day
> .


This is entirely dependent on ambient temps.

If it's out in the garage in the winter and it's 30*F in there, I'll bet it only runs once a day, if at all....

If it's 100*F in the summer, it might use more than 800 watt hours per day.

You will definitely need ample battery capacity to get "the motor started". To be honest, I would suggest 4 golf cart batteries in series and run it on 24 volts. If you need something to power it "RIGHT NOW" then get at least one marine deep cycle (trolling) battery - the *largest* you can buy (so you can run the freezer for a few days when the power is out).

I would get a smart charger capable of at least 10 amps continuous output with "float" capability. Both Schumacher and Black&Decker make ones that I have tried and am happy with their quality, though the cooling fan did die in the B&D one in less than 20 hours of use! (I robbed the fan from the CPU cooler in an old junk desktop tower to replace it)


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## cowboyhermit

squerly said:


> I have a battery and smart charger, several as a matter of fact. Just was looking for a cleaner setup. Was looking at this converter for $25.00. Supposed to handle items up to 6 amps.


With a battery and charger, the amperage is spread over the day (24hrs), so you would only _need_ like 4 amps (though it is always better to have over capacity), with a converter it will have to be capable of outputting the maximum amps (like 67 you mentioned). That is a BIG converter. You can get chargers that output clean power and also function as a power supply in that amp range but they cost $$$.



LincTex said:


> This is entirely dependent on ambient temps.
> 
> If it's out in the garage in the winter and it's 30*F in there, I'll bet it only runs once a day, if at all....
> 
> If it's 100*F in the summer, it might use more than 800 watt hours per day.
> 
> You will definitely need ample battery capacity to get "the motor started". To be honest, I would suggest 4 golf cart batteries in series and run it on 24 volts. If you need something to power it "RIGHT NOW" then get at least one marine deep cycle (trolling) battery - the *largest* you can buy (so you can run the freezer for a few days when the power is out).
> 
> I would get a smart charger capable of at least 10 amps continuous output with "float" capability. Both Schumacher and Black&Decker make ones that I have tried and am happy with their quality, though the cooling fan did die in the B&D one in less than 20 hours of use! (I robbed the fan from the CPU cooler in an old junk desktop tower to replace it)


Last I checked, fridge and freezer power consumption was based on room temp, anything outside that range will change things.


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## squerly

OK, it's running! Hooked it up to 4 - 6 volt 210 AMP AGM batteries connected in series to get 12 volts and then in parallel. To keep them charged I connected a 1500 watt Trip Lite Inverter Charger. (No, I didn't run out and buy this stuff, I had it already. )

Would have run all 4 of the batteries in series for 24 volts but until I get the solar panels hooked up I have no way of keeping 24 volts charged.

It's cooling down already.  Going to have to go freeze a glass of water I guess.

It's pulling about 300 watts (a little less than 3 amps) now but that will probably lessen up once the box gets cold. 

Edit: Oops, forgot to attach the pictures.


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## LincTex

squerly said:


> Hooked it up to 4 - 6 volt 210 AMP AGM batteries connected in series to get 12 volts and then in parallel. To keep them charged I connected a 1500 watt Trip Lite Inverter Charger.
> 
> Going to have to go freeze a glass of water I guess.


Wow, you are set! Rinse out a bunch of milk jugs and 2-liter bottles and partially fill with water to make ice blocks. Lots of ice blocks in there will keep things cold for days, even after the freezer has stopped running. (if it gets to that point)


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## squerly

Well that didn't take long! My glass has a thin layer of ice across the top and the watt meter is reading 10.4 watts and .24 Amps. Sweet!


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## squerly

2 hours later. This is soooo cool. All off of batteries!


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## cowboyhermit

A freezer that is standing empty will use considerably more power than one that is full, especially when the lid gets open quite a bit, because the mostly empty one will go through way more start/stop cycles in a day.

Of course, adding a bunch of warm stuff will use more power initially but once it cools off, that's it.


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