# Well do you believe this? I find it hard to believe...



## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2013/05/24/despite-detractors-dont-buy-talk-dollar-demise/


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

currency war leads to real war... I dont think Obama has the balls or the spine to even make a threat much less pull the trigger, he'd rather keep perpetuating the collapse and stay on TV looking like he's "helping" 

history, even recent history is full of examples of economies that failed due to the same kind of problems we have, and they actually had smaller ratios of debt to GDP than we do, so I can only think that Obama and his proponents are drinking the kool-aid by the gallon thinking "The US Dollar is TOO BIG TO FAIL!" 


Uhhhhh... no, not really. It isn't. Good luck with that though 


meanwhile, i'm gonna look into getting more silver


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

The banks are hardly going to go on-the-record saying "We're doomed the dollar will collapse in the near future." And some of the statements are totally true and much is just opinion. So it is really not very surprising. And if I had more money I would stand in line behind Dakine to buy some silver.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

hiwall said:


> The banks are hardly going to go on-the-record saying "We're doomed the dollar will collapse in the near future." And some of the statements are totally true and much is just opinion. So it is really not very surprising. And if I had more money I would stand in line behind Dakine to buy some silver.


That is ironic... My mentor help design the networks ATMs run on and is a leading consultants to banks, and one of my clients and close friend is a partner in a top 80 asset management company BOTH say it is doomed... Roflmao should be rofcmao


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

If they get out of the dollar where do they go? The socialist economy of Europe is teetering. China is having problems. The dollar is the worst option except for every other. I suspect we have just seen people dumping paper gold so now could be a good time to buy the real stuff.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

The issue here is, at is always has and always will be, that no matter how awful our leaky lifeboat is, people in the water will cling to it if the other lifeboats are even leakier.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> The issue here is, at is always has and always will be, that no matter how awful our leaky lifeboat is, people in the water will cling to it if the other lifeboats are even leakier.


True, but only up to a point.

1 year ago:

I did not have:
a pressure canner or a working dehydrator that I use a LOT now
$$ in fv silver & bars+rounds
a training regimen for handguns
a training regimen for edged weapons
stored water
First Responder 
EMT
HAM radio

the way I see it, I'm better off pushing myself AWAY from the lifeboat so I dont get pulled under with the weight of the people who are already an anchor on our current economical/social framework.

If you want to do it, you can learn a lot, in a short amount of time... it's there, you just have to devote yourself to it.

the learning is free (if you cant find a how to on youtube or the internet in general... you're probably not going to make lots of money doing it), buying stuff like silver or guns or long term food preps... that is entirely based on your present abilities (capital) and then how you assess them to improve it and increase your stores.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Dakine said:


> True, but only up to a point.
> 
> 1 year ago:
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more... From zero to 100 in less than 6 months...


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Sure, the dollar isn't going to lose reserve status.... now or in the near future, but byeond that.... It takes time to decouple and figure out what else you want to do. BRICS are working to setup a competitor to the world bank. Once that's up and running then you have a viable alternative.

Although, another question... why do we need a reserve currency? if country A wants to buy something from country B why not just "let" them do so worrying about their own two currencies and stopping the conversion of everything into a third currency? It works for many other things and I don't see it being that far fetched to simply abandon the concept of a reserve.

They could also go to Gold or some other commodity as the intermediary. A few countries are already trading oil for gold.

Even our partners are abandoning the dollar. Australia and China are setting up to trade direct and ignore the dollar. I don't believe it's because they are against us, but rather they see the writing on the wall and, like many others, are starting the decoupling process. The first paragraph here (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...tab-dollar-launches-currency-swap-line-france) gives a lot of examples of this happening around the world.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

CulexPipiens said:


> Sure, the dollar isn't going to lose reserve status.... now or in the near future, but byeond that.... It takes time to decouple and figure out what else you want to do. BRICS are working to setup a competitor to the world bank. Once that's up and running then you have a viable alternative.
> 
> Although, another question... why do we need a reserve currency? if country A wants to buy something from country B why not just "let" them do so worrying about their own two currencies and stopping the conversion of everything into a third currency? It works for many other things and I don't see it being that far fetched to simply abandon the concept of a reserve.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure if you understand the ramifications of those billions of FRN coming home.

If they stop trading oil in USD/FRN then all of that money held by other countries will come home, and as it dilutes our money supply, the value of our fiat currency will plummet.

I'm not an economist, but I do listen to them, and I like the example that OIL is not MORE expensive, our MONEY is worth LESS; or worthless... take your pick! 

Zimbabwe had annual inflation rates of 2300% ??? I think thats right? I've seen their bank notes for 1 Trillion Dollars at gun shows. It's a real bill. Thats some scary shit! I dont know what it was in Argentina but it sucked to be there...

I dont know which president should be on the US Trillion.

I think a really good argument could be made for Carter. The CRA comes to mind as a supporting pillar for that!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

CulexPipiens, you are right that the world does not NEED a reserve currency, it just seems to end up that way. It is beneficial to have a common marker of value when all trading purely intangible items.
However contrary to how it is typically portrayed the U.S dollar is not "THE" reserve currency, it has hovered around 2/3 to 3/4 of the reserve for a long time, the Euro making up most of the rest but there are others as well. Before the Euro, the mark, franc, and pound made up about the same %.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It sounds like propaganda to make people more confident in the dollar.

Other countries are making agreements with each other to trade in their own currencies. That includes the BRICS--Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. Japan and Australia have agreements with China. Turkey and India have been buying oil from Iran using gold.

Here are some links to some articles about the demise of the dollar as the world's reserve currency:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...-australia-and-china-enable-direct-currency-c

http://www.westernfreepress.com/201...looming-demise-of-dollar-as-reserve-currency/

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...d-reserve-currency-is-about-to-come-to-an-end

One thing we might see first is people fleeing the dollar as a safe haven currency. According to a recent article on ZeroHedge.com, 1 dollar in 15 is held in Argentina alone. I suspect that half the dollars in existence are held by individuals. It would be much easier for them to dump their dollars and buy Swiss Francs.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

The biggest thing holding up the U.S dollar imo right now is that everyone is fighting to keep theirs low. Switzerland took some really drastic measures because their currency rose to the point of causing serious damage to their economy. Same thing with Canada, we are fighting to keep our dollar lower or at least on par with the U.S to stay competitive.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Dakine said:


> I'm not sure if you understand the ramifications of those billions of FRN coming home.


I do understand. It gives the US an edge in most deals plus, even if we're not part of the deal we still end up with essentially a fractional cut. What I was listing is both what I see happening out there and some speculation too. Many other significant countries are looking to eliminate that advantage that we have. If/when they are able to, then we truly will be on our own in terms of currency and how it's treated by the rest of the world. Decline in value is a certainty I believe, but whether, as you listed, we go the Zimbabwe/Argentina route or the Weimer republic route or something else all together is yet to be seen.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

CulexPipiens said:


> I do understand. It gives the US an edge in most deals plus, even if we're not part of the deal we still end up with essentially a fractional cut. What I was listing is both what I see happening out there and some speculation too. Many other significant countries are looking to eliminate that advantage that we have. If/when they are able to, then we truly will be on our own in terms of currency and how it's treated by the rest of the world. Decline in value is a certainty I believe, but whether, as you listed, we go the Zimbabwe/Argentina route or the Weimer republic route or something else all together is yet to be seen.


Beans, Bullets & Band-aids 

If you dont have those covered for an extensive amount of time, if this currency war we're talking about goes down like this, people will find themselves up a very nasty creek with no paddle, no canoe, and no normal life to go back to.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

To reply as to why it is so important for us to remain the worlds reserve currency is the fact that because products, commodities, as well as services are priced and sold in exchange for the USD - it keeps other countries invested in having to trade their currencies for ours so they can in turn buy whatever they need. Thus it allows us also the advantage to have so much debt, and not be cut off from the borrowing... Otherwise, there is no need for countries to need our currency, and those who have it stock piled would send it flooding back to us - thus massively devaluing our dollar and triggering hyperinflation...

However, I think the article is more likely propaganda than anything else. Now, if America could get its act together on shale oil, then there is a slight chance that we could in fact turn the whole ship around. Some estimates I have seen on this, could actually cut our deficits by 2/3rds, adding in the tax increases we will see over the next few years, it means we could actually lower our borrowing... Right now, we are what a $100B from $17T in national debt, not counting unfounded liabilities of $121T... We borrow an estimated $1.1T a year, while only paying out $300B on existing debt - oh and that is just interest...

I did see on a UK site where China has now said they expect a 1+4 world currency where they expect USD to be the main currency with the euro, yen, yuen, and sterling being the 4 minor currencies supporting ours in trades. However, I think this is a hogwash statement by them (if true) because of the following:

i have seen a lot of talk about china setting agreements with France, Australia, and the other nations in BRIC, but I also saw where Great Britain also now ready for a currency trade agreement with china. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/22/us-britain-china-swap-idUSBRE91L0BO20130222

In this article, it states china wants the yuen to be on par with the USD by 2015... Now, I am not a professional money manager or economist, but what do you all think? IMO, if this does happen, the USD replaced by 2016??? If so, then my 4-6 year estimate is dead on...


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

Let's go back a few years before the Lehman brothers/AIG/Meryl Lynch fallout! Wasn't there several economists and the idiot Barney Franks on the news saying "The economy is fine!" Yada, yada....Then the bottom fell out!

Believe it or not this is one of the things I wrote down a few years back, an indicator to me that things are getting bad and will quickly when the "house of cards" begins to crumble. I always said that once they start talking about how stable the dollar is it won't be long after that for it to start it's big fall!

my $0.02


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

The fact that these people feel the need to respond to the 'haters' speaks volumes, no?


> But Christopher said "no commodity supply grows fast enough to support money growth adequate for the world's economic growth." He said this is one of the main reasons why "gold has not lasted very long in modern times as the backing for any currency."


This statement alone, while being partially true given current circumstances, makes a lot of assumptions. Perpetual 'growth' and rising prices.
A system that relies on perpetual (and exponential) growth on a finite planet will ultimately fail.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> A system that relies on perpetual (and exponential) growth on a finite planet will ultimately fail.


True, but most irrelevant as an issue so long as the operation of that system produces results which are better than the alternatives at points below the resources scarcity failure point that is found on a planet with finite resources.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

The problem is result that are better for who?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> The problem is result that are better for who?


Do you have a specific issue in mind? Thinking about your question in general I would say that this is a wealth allocation problem, not a problem which emerges from how the currency is supported.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Perhaps beyond the scope of this thread/forum but the current system and it's reliance on perpetual inflation benefits certain portions of the population over others. In a free market system there are/would be periods of inflation and deflation and this allows for a much different paradigm. 
For instance someone who doesn't want to engage in the financial system cannot simple take their earnings and put it in a vault, if they did that 50 years ago it would be worth a fraction today. They are forced into the "system" in order to simply keep their earnings.
Buying commodities allows for some shelter from inflation but they are also deeply affected by the inflationary paradigm.
A large amount of the negative effects come from the way this new currency is distributed (top down, government projects, etc) but the fact that deflation is never allowed is responsible for many as well.

admission of bias; I work/worked in a lot of primary industries and inflation is generally hardest on them while deflation or lower rates of inflation generally allow basic resources to rise (relatively) closer to their "real" value.


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