# Reconsidering a big decision: Dump the silver?



## cabinetman

Hi all. This was a hard thread to post because I really thought that we made the right decision. We may have been wrong, however. 

We've been "prepping' for a number of years and early on my wife and I decided that it would make sense to buy silver as a hedge against the failing paper dollar. About 1/2 way to the top of the silver market, we purchased a few bags of junk silver. It's nice quality and, after complete inspection, was worth every cent. Why did we buy it? Here was my thought process and a change we’re now considering.

If you wake up tomorrow morning and the banks were not open and no ATMs were available, where would your money be? It would be in that bank's vault and not in your hands. So, you would be cut off from your funds. With interest being so absolutely in the toilet today, home safes with good size chunks of money in them isn't unusual much anymore. Rather than earn .05% on a savings account, we decided to put half of the cash in cash in our big safe. At least we know where it is. 

Now, if ATMs don't open, cash will be king.........at least for a while. First of all, we hopefully won’t be caught short on anything and won’t need to buy anything. Stores and fuel supplies will go quickly. Once what’s available has been bought up and shelves and tanks are cleared (assuming they work in the first place) then what will cash be worth? Hopefully the 'junk silver' we purchased would find a value as a trading item and what better way to have it in but in old but still valuable coinage recognizable to everyone. However........you can't eat silver. So, I am now rethinking our position.

In ALL of the reading that I’ve done over the years from over a dozen different authors discussing a myriad of different scenarios where technology is down for whatever reason, not ONE SINGLE story line had survivors passing silver coinage between them as a trading commodity. Not one. Toilet paper? Beans, Bullets? You bet. Silver or gold? Not once was it mentioned.

We have begun to rethink this scheme. I've been reading a lot about what a post-technical world might be like where other 'commodities' might reign supreme. As I said above, you can't eat silver or gold. If you're thirsty or hungry or out of ammo neither silver no gold will address those deficiencies. So, we may decide to sell our silver as soon as the price goes up to where we'd at least break even. Then we would use that money to purchase items that we would ultimately use ourselves but, in an imperfect world, would be able to trade for other items we might need. Beans and bullets are not as far fetched as one might think. 

I’d be interesting in hearing what others out there have thought about this whole silver thing. Silver was always thought of as a trading commodity in a post-technical world but I’m not so sure, anymore, and am looking for someone’s opinion about all this. So, sell it at the proper market price and invest in more practical commodities or sit tight?


Rome


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## stayingthegame

i think that any monies would need to be something people knew. to tell someone that a quarter is worth 20 dollars because it is silver---- how do I know if it really is silver? if you needed something today and had to trade, what would you give? how much is what you want compare to what you have to give? what does the other person feel he needs or wants? and know that he has what you want, he may hold it as hostage.
you need my ?food,water what do you have that I might want? guns, bullets,medicine? what do you offer with out giving away what you have?


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## Woody

Silver may have barter power, it may not. What you are doing is storing something of value for when times get better. Say we do have an economic collapse, it may last a week, a month a year or perhaps longer. When it comes time to re-establish an economy you have something that can be traded for the new currency. Paper dollars may not be worth anything or they may be worth ½ face value towards the new currency. It is a safe way to store ‘wealth’; gold and silver have always had value.

Forgot to add: I do keep cash at home and on me at all times. If the banks close or electronic devices do not work it is a way to be able to purchase something.


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## Ration-AL

Woody said:


> Silver may have barter power, it may not. What you are doing is storing something of value for when times get better. Say we do have an economic collapse, it may last a week, a month a year or perhaps longer. When it comes time to re-establish an economy you have something that can be traded for the new currency. Paper dollars may not be worth anything or they may be worth ½ face value towards the new currency. It is a safe way to store 'wealth'; gold and silver have always had value.
> 
> Forgot to add: I do keep cash at home and on me at all times. If the banks close or electronic devices do not work it is a way to be able to purchase something.


possibly, ever been in a store when the power is down? cash registers don't work , scanners are down and the 16 year old pimple faced kid behind the counter can't do the math so your not buying anything....i've seen it a number of times, esp in the larger super store type places.

i think alot of this would have to do with how it goes down, the suddenness of it, if the collapse takes a few days to a week and you see it happening i think your silver is a great investment , if everything goes down in a matter of hours to a single day i would think it would be basically useless, trying to get somewhere to spend it would be too dangerous in that case and people would be trying to dump anything of any sort of monetary value for goods as quickly as they could, paying 100-1000x's the worth of an item, when you could already have that stuff stored and ready to go...

but...like others have said, in the rebuilding phase or a currency switch over is were having gold and silver will really pay off, and would be a must have item in those cases and needs to be in every SHTF planning scenario, i would think even a small portion of silver or gold in this case could set your family up for a very very long time in the rebuilding phase, as IMO i see things going back to a gold/silver standard at that point, that's just speculation on my part though.

i really think it's important to have a broad plan, have gold/silver AND supplies, i just wouldn't count on using gold to acquire the things i needed, as i know i won't be selling my supplies for gold until i know i won't need them anymore and if i did, it would be very very very expensive.
don't pigeon hole yourself into one line of thinking, anything can happen.
a complete plan needs both gold/silver and supplies, i don't think having a surplus of either is a bad thing.


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## mojo4

I totally agree on having PM's. I know on other posts here certain people totally believe its a waste of time in SHTF prepping. However I believe that after the first year to 18 months we would have to start the rebuilding process. And some people will always trade their goods or services for gold and silver. Its just unfortunate gold is so high right now. At 1600 an ounce it might be better off to buy 5000 rounds of .223 and during SHTF you can trade those for lotsa gold. Just like every other business plan, buy low and sell high!!


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## zookeeper

Yes, if you have silver, hang on to it. Be it monetary value or industrial, it is a real commodity. I have some U.S. dollar Silver Certificates, don't know if that counts?


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## Magus

cabinetman said:


> Hi all. This was a hard thread to post because I really thought that we made the right decision. We may have been wrong, however.
> 
> We've been "prepping' for a number of years and early on my wife and I decided that it would make sense to buy silver as a hedge against the failing paper dollar. About 1/2 way to the top of the silver market, we purchased a few bags of junk silver. It's nice quality and, after complete inspection, was worth every cent. Why did we buy it? Here was my thought process and a change we're now considering.
> 
> If you wake up tomorrow morning and the banks were not open and no ATMs were available, where would your money be? It would be in that bank's vault and not in your hands. So, you would be cut off from your funds. With interest being so absolutely in the toilet today, home safes with good size chunks of money in them isn't unusual much anymore. Rather than earn .05% on a savings account, we decided to put half of the cash in cash in our big safe. At least we know where it is.
> 
> Now, if ATMs don't open, cash will be king.........at least for a while. First of all, we hopefully won't be caught short on anything and won't need to buy anything. Stores and fuel supplies will go quickly. Once what's available has been bought up and shelves and tanks are cleared (assuming they work in the first place) then what will cash be worth? Hopefully the 'junk silver' we purchased would find a value as a trading item and what better way to have it in but in old but still valuable coinage recognizable to everyone. However........you can't eat silver. So, I am now rethinking our position.
> 
> In ALL of the reading that I've done over the years from over a dozen different authors discussing a myriad of different scenarios where technology is down for whatever reason, not ONE SINGLE story line had survivors passing silver coinage between them as a trading commodity. Not one. Toilet paper? Beans, Bullets? You bet. Silver or gold? Not once was it mentioned.
> 
> We have begun to rethink this scheme. I've been reading a lot about what a post-technical world might be like where other 'commodities' might reign supreme. As I said above, you can't eat silver or gold. If you're thirsty or hungry or out of ammo neither silver no gold will address those deficiencies. So, we may decide to sell our silver as soon as the price goes up to where we'd at least break even. Then we would use that money to purchase items that we would ultimately use ourselves but, in an imperfect world, would be able to trade for other items we might need. Beans and bullets are not as far fetched as one might think.
> 
> I'd be interesting in hearing what others out there have thought about this whole silver thing. Silver was always thought of as a trading commodity in a post-technical world but I'm not so sure, anymore, and am looking for someone's opinion about all this. So, sell it at the proper market price and invest in more practical commodities or sit tight?
> 
> Rome


Turn everything but 5 pounds into food, ammo, and medical supplies.a month after and a bottle of cheap vodka will bring more than an ounce of 999 will.

Now if you're a short term planner like me, keep 5 pounds of collectables too.they come in handy when the paydays stop coming.


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## zookeeper

Magus said:


> Turn everything but 5 pounds into food, ammo, and medical supplies.a month after and a bottle of cheap vodka will bring more than an ounce of 999 will.
> 
> Now if you're a short term planner like me, keep 5 pounds of collectables too.they come in handy when the paydays stop coming.


Your advice is based on the barter system, which I believe will be the main stay after the collapse. So for the short term, yes, 4 chickens gets you 2 lbs. of beef. $2000 in silver will get you a spare tire.


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## BillS

Silver's greatest value is during hyperinflation before the collapse and after the government has regained control of the country after the collapse. I still think it's a good form of barter after the collapse among people who aren't trying to buy food from each other. It would be handy among a group of self-sufficient preppers after the collapse. Bartering between people is a pain. I might not have anything you want or vice versa. Silver doesn't rot or spoil. It's small and portable. It's a lot better than bartering in scrap copper or iron.


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## BillS

We should see hyperinflation this year or next year at the latest. Hyperinflation means inflation at excess of 50% per year. It can also be much, much higher. Think of it this way: when a loaf of bread costs $10,000 because the dollar is that worthless, your 90% silver dime will be worth $10,000 or more too. You'll retain your purchasing power. You won't have to start eating your stored food. A 90% silver dime is worth about $2.20 right now. So based on their value you could sell two of them and buy one gallon of gas. That should be possible no matter how expensive gas gets in terms of dollars. If you can afford to, keep your silver.


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## Possumfam

I always thought that the general consensus was that you bought silver AFTER you had already purchased your supplies. Those things that you'll want/need later, you should buy now while you are able. Then, when you feel that you've stocked up, purchase your silver.


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## cabinetman

I can afford to keep the silver. We bought it not really caring what the oz price went to either up or down. We bought a set amount we knew we could deal with regardless of what happened. It's just that reading so much of post-apocalyptic scenarios never mention having silver or, for that matter, gold. But, BillS, you do bring up a valueable point; one that I knew instinctively but had forgotten. The silver we have wouldn't kill us if it went to $.06 an ounce again so I suspect that we'll just keep it stored and move on with our continued prepping. Just as a suggestion, however, just about every single story I've read mentions the fact that toilet paper became really valuable after it began to run out. Unless you've stashed away a year's worth of newspapers or a bunch of Sears catalogs, you'll be forced into the technique used back in the dark ages. I won't elaborate but trust me that it's not pleasent. TP will be the new gold!

Thanks, all, for your insights.

Rome


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## sailaway

Possumfam said:


> I always thought that the general consensus was that you bought silver AFTER you had already purchased your supplies. Those things that you'll want/need later, you should buy now while you are able. Then, when you feel that you've stocked up, purchase your silver.


Poumfam, you hit the nail on the head for me.


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## goatlady

The small amount of silver I have stashed is strictly for paying property tax or a banker in case they are still around and start up business again or for use in a situation where barter is not needed or wanted.


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## chris88idaho

I started collecting us coinage from >1964 due to sliver content. While back a quarter was worth $5.30. Is this date a good rule of thumb? I called 4 pawnshops they said they would buy them. I also save my change to buy food, get about 30 buck a week or so from stuff I used to loose in the couch. Bought a sluice box and gold pan 3 years ago, fun but only found 3 grams in all that time- put a lot of effort into it without much pay back, hard to sell placer gold at pawn shops they get scared it isn't all real gold and try to buy way under spot price.


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## zracer7

I still think silver and gold and other precious metals is a great way to protect yourself against inflation and use for barter, but what about using SEEDS as a currency? In a post SHTF situation I would think that people would find it more valuable to have a means of growing more food.


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## lotsoflead

Silver and will be the olny thing could be used to bribe LEO in case of Martial law just like it was used to bribe the SS in Germany.


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## cabinetman

Wow, quite a diversity of comments.....all great. 

Just an FYI, my wife and I have purchased and have stored what we feel we would need for a specific period of time in the way of stocking up. Add to that that we are also part of a group of 12 and we've got things pretty well covered. We bought the thousands of dollars of silver because we had discussed having something of 'value' in a post-dollar world. If the TEOTWAWKI happened today, we'd be prepared to move forward. It's just that you always question your plans to make sure that you haven't overlooked some important situation. By posting up my question here, you've pretty much confirmed our initial decision and we can now move forward reinforcing some of our supplies to use more as trade fodder than supplies for ourselves. And, yes, I've got plenty of ammo but you never have "enough".

Rome


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## oldvet

IMO (for what it's worth), you have made the right choice to keep what silver you have and add aditional items that can be used for barter.

I have a small stash of silver "rounds" and junk coins and had thought about selling them and buying more preps, but after reading the posts and really thinking about it I will also keep the silver and add more preps and barter items as I can afford it.

I totally agree that there is no such thing as to much ammunition. If you have the ability to reload and ample components to do so, then you are ahead of the game. The ammo I am stocking more of than anything else is .22, it's fairly inexpensive in bulk and your .22 rifle/pistol can be a dual purpose firearm (self defense and hunting) if you run out of your MBR ammo.

You sound as tho you have your "stuff together", so hang in there and keep on keeping on.


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## cabinetman

We're working on it. Can I believe that at my attained age (a few more years until retirement) that I'm having to feel compelled to be doing this kind of stuff? No, I can't. Can I believe that whenever we get together with our core friends that this is one of the things we end up talking about....seriously? No, I can not. Can I believe that I'm spending valueable time and money putting up foodstuffs, equipment, gear for security, water and that equipment etc., etc., in the years that I should be fly-fishing more? No, I can hardly believe any of this. This is not the way the last decade before finally settling back was supposed to pan out. It's one thing to have been hammered more than once in our retirement funds with the markets plummeting time and time again. It's another thing entirely to have to be concerned about even survival because the world is so upside down. 

Recently I head one of the talking heads say that this was "our' generations fault. I beg to disagree. We played by the rules, saw traditional pensions go by the wayside and forcing us into our own 401k plans only to have the markits dump so badly that it made probably a million investors to have to continue working past their age 65. Oh well, I guess this is the new normal. Great. This year and for the forseeable future, there wll be 10,000 American's retiring....DAILY! That's lot of pressure on SS.

Rome


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## chris88idaho

Get this, my company started giving out $1,000 dollar silver bars at the guy's 20 year service party. Why? Cause it is and will be worth something. Also don't under estimate the power gold has over people! You should see how people's eyes light up when I show the my 3 little grams of gold... Could be used to buy a ride or some food w/out a doubt. Consider this, small quantities of pure gold hold a lot of value. 1 Troy ounce is worth approx 1800 dollars and is smaller than a sugar cube. Perfect for bug out barter item. Bug in: booze, gas, seeds, ammo, hand tools should provide flexibility to reach out to most people to barter. Paper money I suspect in many Situations will become useless or so hyper inflated you will need a wheelbarrow full of it to buy a loaf of bread, as in post w2 Germany.


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## overboard

My opinion , silver is most likely to go up In value, so even if the the worst never happens (it won't) your in exellent shape to begin a new future weather it be in nuclear ruin or college fund for your children.


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## overboard

As for seeds, you will eat them before the first 2 years of hardship creeps into America ( I pray it never happens)


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## cabinetman

WE all pray that same prayer. My old minister used to have a sign on his door, however: Pray to God but Row Toward Shore. 

Rome


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## BillS

chris88idaho said:


> I started collecting us coinage from >1964 due to sliver content. While back a quarter was worth $5.30. Is this date a good rule of thumb? I called 4 pawnshops they said they would buy them. I also save my change to buy food, get about 30 buck a week or so from stuff I used to loose in the couch. Bought a sluice box and gold pan 3 years ago, fun but only found 3 grams in all that time- put a lot of effort into it without much pay back, hard to sell placer gold at pawn shops they get scared it isn't all real gold and try to buy way under spot price.


Pre-1964 is the way to go. I prefer coins with no collector's value. Here's a good website for more information:

http://www.coinflation.com/


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## Ration-AL

BillS said:


> Pre-1964 is the way to go. I prefer coins with no collector's value. Here's a good website for more information:
> 
> http://www.coinflation.com/


my question on old coins, is how do you convince someone in a post SHTF case that your pre 1964 quarter has more value then a 1981 quarter?
Is this considered common knowledge among the general public?
i've always known older coins had a higher metal content as opposed to alloys but not being into coinage i would generally have no idea when it starts or stops.
i have a feeling you'd come across a fair size of the population who would look at both coins as the same value and not have it be worth as much, what's the harm in dumping the coins for silver rounds, you'd lose a bit of cash but it seems like it would be more universal to use then coinage.

not being argumentative here and just learned something new(thanks!), i would just consider knowing what year coins are good and which ones aren't a "specialized knowledge" that most of us younger guys won't know or possibly accept in a SHTF. i'm in my early 30's and not a genius by any-means, that said i have met alot of the general public that is basically borderline retarded, i could see trying to convince someone of the worth of my coins while starving...how do you deal with this, im interested in going through my change drawers and saving early coinage now, lol


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## CulexPipiens

cabinetman said:


> ...In ALL of the reading that I've done over the years from over a dozen different authors discussing a myriad of different scenarios where technology is down for whatever reason, not ONE SINGLE story line had survivors passing silver coinage between them as a trading commodity. Not one. Toilet paper? Beans, Bullets? You bet. Silver or gold? Not once was it mentioned.
> 
> We have begun to rethink this scheme. I've been reading a lot about what a post-technical world might be like where other 'commodities' might reign supreme....


Let me address this part of your post... it sounds like you've been reading fiction, PAW stories. They are just that... STORIES! The authors (myself included) basically come up with FICTIONAL plots and FICTIONAL outcomes. Please don't ever base your prepping on stories. They can give you ideas but should never be a template or blueprint for what you should be doing. Only you can determine that.

Look at real world examples. Weimar Republic. Bosnia. Kosovo. Argentina. Heck, Greece right now. Ferfal wrote a whole book on living through the collapse of Argentina (http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Su...3457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337043220&sr=8-1) and is probably the closest thing to what COULD happen here. In every case (so far) the economies and countries did put themselves back together. I believe you need to prep to make it past that time period to survive any of these type of situations.


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## Padre

*What is silver really worth???*

First of all what you need to realize is this: what is one oz of silver worth today? Whatever you answer your wrong. 1oz of Silver is worth 1oz of Silver.

Silver may go up and down in relationship to the the dollar or euro but an oz of silver is always an oz of silver. Its pretty, its useful, and people will always want it and be willing to trade something for it, in contrast to dollars.

I have a 10,000 unit note of Communist Polish currency you know what they are worth....



Ration-AL said:


> my question on old coins, is how do you convince someone in a post SHTF case that your pre 1964 quarter has more value then a 1981 quarter?
> Is this considered common knowledge among the general public?


No, not everyone will realize or accept the difference. That is one of its main attributes. During hyperinflation when $100 can't buy you a coke, who is going to go around stealing quarters? Its STEALTH SILVER.

IDEALLY, you would trade it in either for currency or in barter to a silver dealer or pawn shop that knows what they are looking at.

Silver is not a barter currency for a world without rule of law, its a wealth protector for the days leading up to or following the WROL. Before WROL as inflation sets in 1oz is worth 1oz of silver but it may be worth $100, $1000, or even $10000, and more importantly in real terms it is most definitely going to be worth 10 gallons of gas. After WROL as they attempt to reestablish currency the same will be true, at first people won't trust it, but they will trust cold hard metals, because quite simply they will need it to re-establish a technological society.

"Diversity is silver's primary asset. Its unique properties include beauty, strength, sensitivity to light, malleability and ductility, electrical and thermal conductivity, reflectivity and the ability to endure extreme temperature changes. These properties allow groundbreaking research to be conducted by scientists and engineers that effect the way we live.

Silver more than other precious metals, has significant demand rooted in sectors as diverse as imaging, electronics, jewelry, coinage, superconductivity and water purification. For this reason, silver is no longer known as just a precious metal, a store of value, a work of art or an industrial metal. It is all of these. Today silver is indispensable, working all around us to improve the quality of our lives."


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## chris88idaho

Hope this not too far off topic, when I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2001 the exchange was 450,000 afganies to 1 us dollar. Hyper inflation is real and it rears it ugly head from time to time.In 2001 you could have bought half the country with a 1964 quarter. (camel was 30 dollars, ak-47 was 8 dollars)People would line up by our firing range to pick our spent shells for the brass because it was worth something. In the klondike, around 1849 you could buy anything from a beer to a bath for a pinch of gold dust. People's perception of money was blurred, gold was currency. I imagine, when the us currency (coins made of copper and paper money with no gold behind it) falls and is no longer worth the paper it is printed on, really quick people are going to figure out (again) gold/silver hold their value and everyone will be an expert on it. I remember my gramps telling me how a nickel would get him into the movies and buy him a pop corn. We are already pretty far down a slippery financial slop. Yet they keep churning out green backs and taking out enormous debts from out enemies. Makes me sick, they can't decide weather or not to take more debt to keep the gov. Running, and guess what? The decrease our credit rating, now we pay more on the same loan. The economy is going to hell and in the end, silver and gold maybe one of the last few mediums of exchange that mean anything. Just my rambling thoughts...


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## chris88idaho

Great points padre, very thoughtful and well put. You obviously don't have a smart phone that tries to anticipate your words (incorrectly) making you look like an idiot. Lol


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## Jarhead0311

This is the time to buy silver not dump it. The price is dropping mainly because the Euro is crashing and the dollar is getting stronger. This won't last, the dollar's turn is coming and PMs will take off like a rocket.


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## sillymoo

CulexPipiens said:


> Let me address this part of your post... it sounds like you've been reading fiction, PAW stories. They are just that... STORIES! The authors (myself included) basically come up with FICTIONAL plots and FICTIONAL outcomes. Please don't ever base your prepping on stories. They can give you ideas but should never be a template or blueprint for what you should be doing. Only you can determine that.
> 
> Look at real world examples. Weimar Republic. Bosnia. Kosovo. Argentina. Heck, Greece right now. Ferfal wrote a whole book on living through the collapse of Argentina (http://www.amazon.com/The-Modern-Su...3457/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337043220&sr=8-1) and is probably the closest thing to what COULD happen here. In every case (so far) the economies and countries did put themselves back together. I believe you need to prep to make it past that time period to survive any of these type of situations.


This is almost exactly what I was going to say. While I didn't really care for the tone of Ferfal's book, it certainly opened my eyes to what may come. As I recall, silver and gold were more accepted than bullets. And while there may be a time when toilet paper is more desirable than silver, there will also come a time when silver will once again buy you all the tp you can ever want. I'm basically buying silver in order to set my daughter up for the future, if need be.


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## BillS

Ration-AL said:


> my question on old coins, is how do you convince someone in a post SHTF case that your pre 1964 quarter has more value then a 1981 quarter?
> Is this considered common knowledge among the general public?
> i've always known older coins had a higher metal content as opposed to alloys but not being into coinage i would generally have no idea when it starts or stops.
> i have a feeling you'd come across a fair size of the population who would look at both coins as the same value and not have it be worth as much, what's the harm in dumping the coins for silver rounds, you'd lose a bit of cash but it seems like it would be more universal to use then coinage.
> 
> not being argumentative here and just learned something new(thanks!), i would just consider knowing what year coins are good and which ones aren't a "specialized knowledge" that most of us younger guys won't know or possibly accept in a SHTF. i'm in my early 30's and not a genius by any-means, that said i have met alot of the general public that is basically borderline retarded, i could see trying to convince someone of the worth of my coins while starving...how do you deal with this, im interested in going through my change drawers and saving early coinage now, lol


If you look at a 1964 or earlier silver coin it doesn't have a copper streak along the edge. If you strike two of them together it makes a different sound than newer coins. Ultimately the person thinking about taking the coin needs to have an understanding of what 90% silver coins are and how 1965 and later silver coins have very little silver in them.

I don't like silver rounds. I wouldn't know a real one from a fake one. I have a 1953 quarter. I have no doubt that it's legit.

I also tend to think that the people who would survive would have a better knowledge of the value of older coins than the general public.


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## Magus

Godz coin dealer, don't you know what an acid test is? Anyway you're telling him to suffer and die for a collectible that won't mean crap after a MAJOR SHTF event.Hey kid, buy food and ammo and scav your coins off BillS dead body.

Yes BillS, I hate you.you're murdering these kids.may you starve to death with a handful of Krugerrands.your retarded advice will only succeed in killing these kids.why don't you plan your future in a country that HAS ONE!your advice only leads to suffering and needless death in a long term SHTF event.go troll a coin collector forum and let these kids live.

And before you throw more bible quotes at me,Satan can quote it better than you grandpaw.


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## Magus

Why don't you answer me BillS?are you waiting for me to go to bed and get a few fleeting hours in you gold coin selling schill?

Quote me some bible so I can rip it out of your hands and beat you with it you greedy old man.you're killing these kids with your crap,
I hope you know that.your Jesus won't love you anymore for that you greedy sack load.


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## Magus

I'm waiting coin dealer.quantify and justify your bad advice.the blood of these kids be on your head!
Quote me some more bible, I need it!I'm your personal Satan!

I see you lurking.watching, trying to justify you killing these kids in your mind.want me to go to bed so you can have the last word a few hours? fine.you're still a schill and your advice still amounts to murder.

Quote me something pretty that says murder for profit is OK won't you?


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## Magus

Come on BillS...are these kids lives worth selling them an eagle or two?

Whup?do I speak your language BillS.what's one of these kid's lives worth in Troy ounces to you BillS?
What's their numismatic worth Billy?I see you out there busting a blood vessel trying to make a reply, trying to justify your crap.
You're a greedy sack just like the NWO trash the rest of us hate.get out of here,I won't let you have these kids.


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## Magus

Fine BillS,I'm going to bed now.have your fleeting hours of whatever.you know I'm just going to shred and humiliate you in the morning.best log off and let these kids live you greedy schill.


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## Magus

I'm still here Billy. ANSWER THE F***ING QUESTIONS YOU GREEDY OLD MAN!

Best do it now instead of when I'm fresh.I intend to peel you coin dealer!


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## Magus

I see you're still there coin dealer........waiting, hoping to whatever god hears you I go away.I won't you know.I'll be back and you'll STILL have to answer for your greed and all these kids you steered wrong.If not me, then to a higher power.all I can do is make you look like the greedy @$$ you are.ANSWER ME COWARD! PROVE ME WRONG!


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## Magus

I just read your recent BillS, I commend your change of ways.
I'll never troll you again as long as you're part of the solution.


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## Immolatus

Um, Magus?



zookeeper said:


> I have some U.S. dollar Silver Certificates, don't know if that counts?


I dont think these are worth anything except for their pure 'collectors' value. They arent worth any silver per se. I wasnt sure if this was a serious question, to be honest.



cabinetman said:


> Can I believe that I'm spending valueable time and money putting up foodstuffs, equipment, gear for security, water and that equipment etc., etc., in the years that I should be fly-fishing more?


Get back to fly fishing! (On second thought, get a real reel! )



BillS said:


> Pre-1964 is the way to go. I prefer coins with no collector's value. Here's a good website for more information:
> 
> http://www.coinflation.com/


I agree, numismatic (collector) value will drop to ZERO if SHTF.



Ration-AL said:


> my question on old coins, is how do you convince someone in a post SHTF case that your pre 1964 quarter has more value then a 1981 quarter?
> Is this considered common knowledge among the general public?
> i've always known older coins had a higher metal content as opposed to alloys but not being into coinage i would generally have no idea when it starts or stops.
> i have a feeling you'd come across a fair size of the population who would look at both coins as the same value and not have it be worth as much, what's the harm in dumping the coins for silver rounds, you'd lose a bit of cash but it seems like it would be more universal to use then coinage.


Very good question. A good argument for buying Eagles (or Maples, eh?instead. Im not a fan of rounds, except for pure investment purposes (outside of prepping) for this very reason. Just because it says its silver, doesnt mean it is. Noone will doubt an Eagle.

And CabinetMan, if youve got plenty of pm's in addition to your stores, hang on to it and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. If youre fully prepped and money isnt an issue, then worst case scenario is you pass away (sorry!) and nothing bad ever happens, you get to pass these on tax free.


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## BillS

Magus, you really said some nasty things to me but I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone. I'm a Christian. Back in 1980 I heard the gospel preached. I felt the Holy Spirit draw me into a relationship with God. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. My faith is the most important part of my life. If you follow God with your whole heart He will change who you are. He'll give you a love for Him and a love for people. You'll have peace and joy regardless of what goes on in your life. 

I actually welcome your insulting tirades and your mischaracterizations of what I wrote. I can show an easy contrast between your beliefs and mine. Between your behavior and mine. I also refuse to repay evil for evil. Besides, God will repay you for what you've done here. 

(Rom 12:19 NIV) Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.


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## Marcus

zookeeper said:


> Yes, if you have silver, hang on to it. Be it monetary value or industrial, it is a real commodity. I have some U.S. dollar Silver Certificates, don't know if that counts?


Nope. All you have is a bill. Here is a link on a coin website with an article about it.
http://www.cointalk.com/t86515/
I found it interesting that the government repudiated the conversion when they ran out of silver dollars. It doesn't give a body much hope that they'll act any differently in the future when Social Security and Medicare go broke.


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## stayingthegame

I have my mother's sterling flatware. it is a service for 12 with 9 or 10 pieces for each plus about 15 serving pieces. what is the amount of silver in it (appx) and how would you smelt it after the shtf? I have often wondered what it would be worth. had thought of selling it once, but then I realized if things got really bad, I have something.


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## cabinetman

Sterling silver will be in the vicinity of .915 solid silver with some other metal added to help with strength. Sterling silver tend to be "flexible" compared to plated silver. Consider this. Weigh your pieces individually for each place setting in ounces. Then multiply the number of place setting times about $30.00 per ounce and that's what you've got in money value right now. It's been as high as $49 but currently is trading in the high twenties to low thirties. Smelting it? You would simply melt it and turn it into amounts you can trade. If you look around you'll find someone in the business that could give you melt value and actually melt if for you if you were so inclinded. Methinks, however, that if there is a female in your life (especially a wife) that she would let you do that over your dead body. Good luck!

Rome


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## stayingthegame

I'm the female. lol. and hubby has been out of work almost 15 months now  may need the money soon. would love to see it go to someone who would use it as flatware through.


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## cabinetman

Sorry for the "sexist" remark! Leave it to me to finally make a semi-funny comment once and a while on the forums only to get hauled up by my own petard!

One other idea you may wish to pursue is http://www.replacements.com/. Find your pattern and then research the current selling price of each piece. Understand that the value quoted will be well above the melt-silver value because of the pattern and the brand. You can contact them and see what they would be willing to buy your pattern for should they want to stock it for someone else. Rest assured the value they offer will be lower than what they post up as a selling price but it might also be more valuable as flatware than melt silver.

Sorry to hear about your husband's job loss. Seems that there is a lot of unemployment still out there regardless what the politicians might be saying.

Rome


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## k0xxx

I guess that the whole PM thing boils down to whether you believe that gold/silver will retain value, or whether paper will. I'm going with the PM's.

Back in the 80's and 90's I was buying an once of gold and 10 ounces of silver per month. I would gladly go back and trade more of those 80's and 90's paper dollars for PM's if I could.


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## cabinetman

Wow, you were one of those on the cutting edge. I recall when Silver was about $5 an ounce and wondered, if it were so valuable, why it wasn't worth more. Now, today, I don't wonder, and understand the markets a bit better than back then. I came later into the came but am still right-side-up. My original question was to solicit some answers to the question I had about the 'value' of keeping PMs and silver in particular instead of converting it into additional supplies. My questions have been pretty clearly answered and I've decided to hang in there with it. It sits in my safe and doesn't take up much of my time so I can be patient.

Rome


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## Magus

BillS said:


> Magus, you really said some nasty things to me but I don't hate you. I don't hate anyone. I'm a Christian. Back in 1980 I heard the gospel preached. I felt the Holy Spirit draw me into a relationship with God. I accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. My faith is the most important part of my life. If you follow God with your whole heart He will change who you are. He'll give you a love for Him and a love for people. You'll have peace and joy regardless of what goes on in your life.
> 
> I actually welcome your insulting tirades and your mischaracterizations of what I wrote. I can show an easy contrast between your beliefs and mine. Between your behavior and mine. I also refuse to repay evil for evil. Besides, God will repay you for what you've done here.
> 
> (Rom 12:19 NIV) Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord.


I said those things because I care about these kids in here trying to learn to make it.I'm NOT a Christian but I used to be, so I appreciate your philosophy to an extent.You keep on making good solid "keep em alive" threads and posts and you might even find me at your back.post something I think will cost one of these kids his life, you'll find me on it with all the weight I can muster. Not just you but anybody who willfully disseminates dangerous B.S.it's nothing personal bud, I've been studying for what's coming 2/3rds of my life, but now my health is gone and I know I'm not going to survive so the only legacy I have past handing out my stash will be helping these kids make it.I want them to live more than I want to die, is that so bad?I might get a little "fanatical" at times but I'm on my last mission.sorry if I broke anything.:wave:

Nice posting of late I might add.

P.S
Quoting bible continually does nothing but make you look like a kook.You love your god,we get it.
I'm openly Pagan so they already KNOW I am. :nuts:

Shall we discuss this via P.M BillS? I'm pretty sure religion isn't what this section is for.


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## gatorglockman

This is a great thread as I was actually looking at getting into the silver game and making a purchase. Interesting to get different insight.



Magus said:


> I'm still here Billy. ANSWER THE F***ING QUESTIONS YOU GREEDY OLD MAN!
> 
> Best do it now instead of when I'm fresh.I intend to peel you coin dealer!


Dude...Magus...no drunk late nite posting man :2thumb:. Been there done that myself long ago. 5 Posts of challenge in like 10 minutes......gave me a good chuckle.


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## Zonation

Ration-AL said:


> my question on old coins, is how do you convince someone in a post SHTF case that your pre 1964 quarter has more value then a 1981 quarter?
> Is this considered common knowledge among the general public?
> i've always known older coins had a higher metal content as opposed to alloys but not being into coinage i would generally have no idea when it starts or stops.
> i have a feeling you'd come across a fair size of the population who would look at both coins as the same value and not have it be worth as much, what's the harm in dumping the coins for silver rounds, you'd lose a bit of cash but it seems like it would be more universal to use then coinage.
> 
> not being argumentative here and just learned something new(thanks!), i would just consider knowing what year coins are good and which ones aren't a "specialized knowledge" that most of us younger guys won't know or possibly accept in a SHTF. i'm in my early 30's and not a genius by any-means, that said i have met alot of the general public that is basically borderline retarded, i could see trying to convince someone of the worth of my coins while starving...how do you deal with this, im interested in going through my change drawers and saving early coinage now, lol


I personally think your on to something when pointing out that the general public may not be able to tell from a 1964 quarter to a 1981 quarter. Even though that pre-65 quarters and dimes have a 90% silver content, they are less recognizable because they are not rare. 
When dealing with coins of a 90% silver content, I would go with Morgan dollars and walking liberty half dollars. Not worrying about any numismatic value, they look old and are very recognizable by the public. Just make sure to be careful for fakes. Now if you wanted a silver coin that is recognizable world wide, then I would go with the Silver eagle of any date and please make sure to stay away from foreign currency. Only buy American silver like Eagles, buffalos, walking liberty.


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## Zonation

DO NOT SELL YOUR SILVER!!!! I hear a lot from people that you cannot eat your gold or silver, but that's far from the reasoning to own it. 
First of all, everyone has to realize that we are on the verge of the death of the dollar. The U.S. has over 16 trillion in debt an less than 15 trillion in GDP. Our top 9 banks are exposed to $292 trillion in derivatives. The illegal FED reserve has used QE1 and QE2 and are pondering QE3!!! This will devalue the dollar beyond comprehension, and lead to hyperinflation. We are already seeing it in the prices of our food. And not to mention that the BRIC nations are starting to trade amongst themselves without the use of the dollar as the reserve currency and nations are starting to buy oil from Iran using GOLD!!!!!!
There may come a time soon where our dollar will only be worth the paper it's written on, and the grocery stores will be full of food with no one to buy it. If one remembers the great depression, you had people bring in barrels of money for a loaf of bread. That will not be close to what will
Happen to us when the economy collapses. 
Now...what to do. Well...sorry for any pagans in here, but First thing I would do is get my spiritual house in order. Second I would get as much money out of our fiat currency and into US gold and silver, and of course arm myself properly and store food. While people are sitting at home with their beans and bullets, I'll be able to go to the store with my .45 and use my Morgan dollars to buy food.


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## k0xxx

Zonation said:


> ...(snip)... While people are sitting at home with their beans and bullets, I'll be able to go to the store with my .45 and use my Morgan dollars to buy food.


I'm not so convinced that you'll be able to go to the store and spend those Morgan dollars. To me, it seems much more likely that you'll sell a Morgan or two, and then use what ever currency is being accepted to make your purchases. I could be wrong, but that is how it has played out in every modern economic collapse so far.

There's also the possibility that the stores will be empty due to a lack of infrastructure or looting, so having one's beans and bullets in order prior to getting too heavily into PM's would be the smart play. IMHO


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## The_Blob

k0xxx said:


> I'm not so convinced that you'll be able to go to the store and spend those Morgan dollars. To me, it seems much more likely that you'll sell a Morgan or two, and then use what ever currency is being accepted to make your purchases. I could be wrong, but that is how it has played out in every modern economic collapse so far.


so what you're saying is that fiat currencies will change, yet the PMs will STILL retain their value...



k0xxx said:


> There's also the possibility that the stores will be empty due to a lack of infrastructure or looting, so having one's beans and bullets in order prior to getting too heavily into PM's would be the smart play. IMHO


From what he's said, he already has his 'beans & bullets', so when the 'rebuilding society' phase occurs he will have something almost universally recognized as having value (silver). If that phase doesn't come along (ie true end-of-the-world) any discussion is pretty moot.

I'm fairly certain most of us prep so that we, or our families/friends, will be able to 'see the light at the end of the tunnel'.


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## Magus

gatorglockman said:


> This is a great thread as I was actually looking at getting into the silver game and making a purchase. Interesting to get different insight.
> 
> Dude...Magus...no drunk late nite posting man :2thumb:. Been there done that myself long ago. 5 Posts of challenge in like 10 minutes......gave me a good chuckle.


He was lurking.still never got a answer.


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## Magus

Zonation said:


> DO NOT SELL YOUR SILVER!!!! I hear a lot from people that you cannot eat your gold or silver, but that's far from the reasoning to own it.
> First of all, everyone has to realize that we are on the verge of the death of the dollar. The U.S. has over 16 trillion in debt an less than 15 trillion in GDP. Our top 9 banks are exposed to $292 trillion in derivatives. The illegal FED reserve has used QE1 and QE2 and are pondering QE3!!! This will devalue the dollar beyond comprehension, and lead to hyperinflation. We are already seeing it in the prices of our food. And not to mention that the BRIC nations are starting to trade amongst themselves without the use of the dollar as the reserve currency and nations are starting to buy oil from Iran using GOLD!!!!!!
> There may come a time soon where our dollar will only be worth the paper it's written on, and the grocery stores will be full of food with no one to buy it. If one remembers the great depression, you had people bring in barrels of money for a loaf of bread. That will not be close to what will
> Happen to us when the economy collapses.
> Now...what to do. Well...sorry for any pagans in here, but First thing I would do is get my spiritual house in order. Second I would get as much money out of our fiat currency and into US gold and silver, and of course arm myself properly and store food. While people are sitting at home with their beans and bullets, I'll be able to go to the store with my .45 and use my Morgan dollars to buy food.


BillS recruit you?

Feel sorry for Pagans? dude.we pity you.:nuts: best leave the preaching to the religious forum, there's more than me in here.and WE ARE NOT ASHAMED NOR TIMID!

Guns, ammo, food.good sense.but don't go bat$h1t deep in debt just in case somebody saves it for a few more years.Here's an idea,instead of buying scrap metal,buy a generator and some fuel, extra hunting ammo,HEY invest in those garden in a can kits and make money from whatever currency emerges.

Pray tell oh guru of finances,WHAT will you be buying at an empty store?I'm reasonably sure that after the collapse deliveries will stop.
And somewhere in a delivery truck, buried in a ditch with its driver will be your last shipment of coins, there to sit until the end of all things or somebody digs it up to plant a turnip field.I'll tell you like I told BillS,anything over 5 pounds is a waste of money and ticking away time!


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## alwaysready

Zonation said:


> DO NOT SELL YOUR SILVER!!!! I hear a lot from people that you cannot eat your gold or silver, but that's far from the reasoning to own it.
> First of all, everyone has to realize that we are on the verge of the death of the dollar. The U.S. has over 16 trillion in debt an less than 15 trillion in GDP. Our top 9 banks are exposed to $292 trillion in derivatives. The illegal FED reserve has used QE1 and QE2 and are pondering QE3!!! This will devalue the dollar beyond comprehension, and lead to hyperinflation. We are already seeing it in the prices of our food. And not to mention that the BRIC nations are starting to trade amongst themselves without the use of the dollar as the reserve currency and nations are starting to buy oil from Iran using GOLD!!!!!!
> There may come a time soon where our dollar will only be worth the paper it's written on, and the grocery stores will be full of food with no one to buy it. If one remembers the great depression, you had people bring in barrels of money for a loaf of bread. That will not be close to what will
> Happen to us when the economy collapses.
> Now...what to do. Well...sorry for any pagans in here, but First thing I would do is get my spiritual house in order. Second I would get as much money out of our fiat currency and into US gold and silver, and of course arm myself properly and store food. While people are sitting at home with their beans and bullets, I'll be able to go to the store with my .45 and use my Morgan dollars to buy food.


If the situation was that bad why would you expose yourself to the danger of robbed, shot and robbed or followed home where they could plan a way to take all you have? Don't get me wrong I love the .45 but wouldn't stand much of a chance against a man 200 yards away with a 308.


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## ComputerGuy

IMHO I am keeping silver and once a month I buy 200-300 dollars worth. Now, that is not my only investment, other sustainability items like food is 200-300, bullets 140 a month plus the extra stuff like a generator, and other preps too.

Silver is an augmentation.


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## Magus

And there it is! the man said "Augmentation" ! I myself keep 5 lbs of silver this n that for the odd nut who'll trade his stuff for it or the possibility of a foreign soldier who can be bribed because that ounce is more than he'll see in a month pay wise.


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## mojo4

Having some silver around for purchases is fine but I tend to agree with magus. Have around 5 to 10 lbs of it but if you really want your investments to increase I would buy guns ammo and booze. I'm sure their jump in value after a collapse will be far greater jump than PM's or land or other investments. Just my opinion though.


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## ComputerGuy

mojo4 said:


> Having some silver around for purchases is fine but I tend to agree with magus. Have around 5 to 10 lbs of it but if you really want your investments to increase I would buy guns ammo and booze. I'm sure their jump in value after a collapse will be far greater jump than PM's or land or other investments. Just my opinion though.


I have booze too. Mostly in the miniatures, any other I have learned to make for myself


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## Magus

We need a moonshineing thread for "information purposes only" .


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## Zonation

ComputerGuy said:


> IMHO I am keeping silver and once a month I buy 200-300 dollars worth. Now, that is not my only investment, other sustainability items like food is 200-300, bullets 140 a month plus the extra stuff like a generator, and other preps too.
> 
> Silver is an augmentation.


Exactly computer guy. It's funny that most people think that we who purchase silver and gold only do that. Which in most cases is not true because I diversify myself in many tangible items What you do each month is precisely what Everyone should do. I think most people have to realize is that we are one a money and investment forum.


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## stayingthegame

Magus said:


> We need a moonshineing thread for "information purposes only" .


in many areas making home brew for your own use is not illegal. but there are limits on how much you can make in a year. don't know if there is a limit on how much you can store. :beercheer: besides....are you going to limit my medication?


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## md1911

In my humble opinion the key to all investment weither it be today or preparing for a shtf event is moderation and diversifucation. 

have some food, water, weapons, ammo, medical supplies, Pm's, other trade goods, and maybe even some modern stocks and bounds, and ofcourse land.

I try to grow my preparedness supplies as a whole and never overload on any one catigory. My reasoning for this is it may not be benificial or possible to trade. So in that case I want to have enough to not need to trade. Ie be self sufficiant. 

On the other hand if I need anything and don't have it. Assuming I can find some one willing to trade I have some trade goods and pm's. In the event I don't use my pm's things will eventuly get back to some form of currency. My pm's will be worth something then even if it is for my grandchildren.


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## Zonation

Magus said:


> BillS recruit you?
> 
> Feel sorry for Pagans? dude.we pity you.:nuts: best leave the preaching to the religious forum, there's more than me in here.and WE ARE NOT ASHAMED NOR TIMID!
> 
> Guns, ammo, food.good sense.but don't go bat$h1t deep in debt just in case somebody saves it for a few more years.Here's an idea,instead of buying scrap metal,buy a generator and some fuel, extra hunting ammo,HEY invest in those garden in a can kits and make money from whatever currency emerges.
> 
> Pray tell oh guru of finances,WHAT will you be buying at an empty store?I'm reasonably sure that after the collapse deliveries will stop.
> And somewhere in a delivery truck, buried in a ditch with its driver will be your last shipment of coins, there to sit until the end of all things or somebody digs it up to plant a turnip field.I'll tell you like I told BillS,anything over 5 pounds is a waste of money and ticking away time!


I was waiting for your response. As for the pagan comment...I was just messing. You have a point when it comes to looting. But when the economic collapse happens I will hunker down(I'm stocked) until the looting and chaos is over. Eventually people will have no more food, they will be ushered in to FEMA camps and commerce will continue. Here's a few things to consider. During the great depression, not everyone was in a food line and There were people that made great fortunes. They did that by getting out of fiat currency. Next, since biblical times gold and silver have used for barter, trade, and purchases. No matter what happens...men will always have an intrinsic need for riches....even if they are starving. 
As for BILLS, no he did not recruit me. I have my own thinking. And since we are on a forums discussing silver....I feel it prudent to give my opinion on the subject. As for My belief system, I am not shy of my faith in my savior Jesus Christ. I constantly pray for everyone that they may come to know him, especially in these end of days. I also pray that everyone who reads our blogs may be moved to prepare themselves in ways they seems fit. God bless.


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## Zonation

md1911 said:


> In my humble opinion the key to all investment weither it be today or preparing for a shtf event is moderation and diversifucation.
> 
> have some food, water, weapons, ammo, medical supplies, Pm's, other trade goods, and maybe even some modern stocks and bounds, and ofcourse land.
> 
> I try to grow my preparedness supplies as a whole and never overload on any one catigory. My reasoning for this is it may not be benificial or possible to trade. So in that case I want to have enough to not need to trade. Ie be self sufficiant.
> 
> On the other hand if I need anything and don't have it. Assuming I can find some one willing to trade I have some trade goods and pm's. In the event I don't use my pm's things will eventuly get back to some form of currency. My pm's will be worth something then even if it is for my grandchildren.


Exactly md. I could not have said it better myself.


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## jjwilson72000

As a history student I know that gold and silver have had value since we have had civilization. On a long enough time line every empire collapses, and it's monetary system with it.
Silver is a staple in my prepping. I just buy a little at a time, as with anything else.


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## mojo4

Id love to buy a bunch of gold and silver like my pappy. He bought in when gold was 340 and silver was 4. Clever old fart!! Hopefully my investments will pan out half as well as his did!


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## Magus

Zonation said:


> I was waiting for your response. As for the pagan comment...I was just messing. You have a point when it comes to looting. But when the economic collapse happens I will hunker down(I'm stocked) until the looting and chaos is over. Eventually people will have no more food, they will be ushered in to FEMA camps and commerce will continue. Here's a few things to consider. During the great depression, not everyone was in a food line and There were people that made great fortunes. They did that by getting out of fiat currency. Next, since biblical times gold and silver have used for barter, trade, and purchases. No matter what happens...men will always have an intrinsic need for riches....even if they are starving.
> As for BILLS, no he did not recruit me. I have my own thinking. And since we are on a forums discussing silver....I feel it prudent to give my opinion on the subject. As for My belief system, I am not shy of my faith in my savior Jesus Christ. I constantly pray for everyone that they may come to know him, especially in these end of days. I also pray that everyone who reads our blogs may be moved to prepare themselves in ways they seems fit. God bless.


Well all righty then.sorry we got off on a sore foot, I'm just here trying to save lives, its like my mission.I get "twitchy" when my path comes up, but no matter.I'm pretty sure all the godz approve of saving lives.

You are correct sir.greedy petty people will always trade well being for gold.I recall the story of the SS officer they found in a cave in Norway[I think]frozen solid, still clutching a sack of gold bars.a town half a mile away.

End of days? Even if Christ came back now, that would not be for 1000 years according to your path's rule book.End of the aeon of greed?end of the passage of lies? perhaps.certainly a rough spot in the road, but everyone agrees on that.


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## Zonation

Magus said:


> Well all righty then.sorry we got off on a sore foot, I'm just here trying to save lives, its like my mission.I get "twitchy" when my path comes up, but no matter.I'm pretty sure all the godz approve of saving lives.
> 
> You are correct sir.greedy petty people will always trade well being for gold.I recall the story of the SS officer they found in a cave in Norwayfrozen solid, still clutching a sack of gold bars.a town half a mile away.
> 
> End of days? Even if Christ came back now, that would not be for 1000 years according to your path's rule book.End of the aeon of greed?end of the passage of lies? perhaps.certainly a rough spot in the road, but everyone agrees on that.


It's all good. I think we both care and are trying to save lives. We are moving toward a huge bump in the road and it could get a bit messy. Thanks for the discussion. Quick question...what is your preference in how to store beans or rice?


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