# Evidence of the Danger



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

If anyone needs reassurance that prepping is a GOOD idea I would like to share two stories in the news here in the Northeast.

1) Family lost in 7 acre corn maze call 911 for police assistance....

2) National guard called out to provide security for maintenance crews in the face of harassment by cold angry customers without electricity after THREE DAYS.

There are people out their who can't tie their shoes today without Big Brothers help, listening to talk radio one sheeple commented, if you feel like you are in danger you call the police. Just imagine the panic that will set in when people realize that the government can't save you...

Similarly, so many are angry (and cold) after a few days without power following the freak October Blizzard last week. The power companies are not miracle workers, they can only put up lines as fast as their budget allows, and there is no evidence that they are skimping on budgeting workers. Yet people are USED to being TAKEN CARE OF and when they are not, when the system fails, they get mad even at the people trying to help them! This is the weak wimpering society that we have produce here in the socialist North East. Just imagine if it hit the fan in the midst of winter--panic, mass deaths, rioting, almost instantaneous violence. Be prepared--to stay warm and protect that warmth.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

On a positive note, should a large event occur during mid-winter, most of them will be dead by spring and unable to get in the way of spring planting!


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Very interesting observation. I have felt this way for a very long time. Was talking to the owner of one of our two small grocery stores about this just yesterday in fact. More winers then anything else, especially when it comes to the younger people. I am in my 60's and have noticed a lot of change in people the last 25 years or so. Raised with a micro wave, frozen prepared cardboard dinners etc and 911 even if you cant figure out how to flush the toilet. Just got back in from checking on my solar imput and wind generator input. We had a "dusting of white stuff" last night and it is windy and the wind is like an ice storm. Brrrrrr. 

I would also like to chime in on young people and jobs. I have noticed that there are quite a few people especially younger ones that can't seem to find a job. Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it. 

These same whiners are the same people that will be adults soon, voting (omg) and making decisions that determine the way our country will go. Imagine where that will take us. Like Greese I suppose. Lets all go out and have more worthless kids so that they can form a whining socity of do nothings.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Nadja said:


> Very interesting observation. I have felt this way for a very long time. Was talking to the owner of one of our two small grocery stores about this just yesterday in fact. More winers then anything else, especially when it comes to the younger people. I am in my 60's and have noticed a lot of change in people the last 25 years or so. Raised with a micro wave, frozen prepared cardboard dinners etc and 911 even if you cant figure out how to flush the toilet. Just got back in from checking on my solar imput and wind generator input. We had a "dusting of white stuff" last night and it is windy and the wind is like an ice storm. Brrrrrr.
> 
> I would also like to chime in on young people and jobs. I have noticed that there are quite a few people especially younger ones that can't seem to find a job. Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it.
> 
> These same whiners are the same people that will be adults soon, voting (omg) and making decisions that determine the way our country will go. Imagine where that will take us. Like Greese I suppose. Lets all go out and have more worthless kids so that they can form a whining socity of do nothings.


Yep, I agree. I am also in my 60's and as a kid mowing yards and a paper route is what I did for spending money. There definitely seems to be a lack of a work ethic in the younger generation.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*ITs my generation...*



Nadja said:


> Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it.


I hear there are plenty of farm jobs in Alabama as a result of their new immigration laws and plenty of oil jobs in the Dakota's--BUT NO its better to be a parasite and suckle at the teat of big government. The thing that is killing my generation is expectations and the safety net state. We have high expectations that because we have 100k in college debt we DESERVE a paper pusher job, and the state makes it impossible for us to be woken up to reality by protecting us from ever feeling the pinch of failure and want.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

Nadja said:


> I would also like to chime in on young people and jobs. I have noticed that there are quite a few people especially younger ones that can't seem to find a job. Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it.
> QUOTE]
> 
> You have a point about young people not wanting jobs to see them through. I am ADAF, I run a Farm, and I work part time at a local burger joint when I am not deployed.
> ...


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> On a positive note, should a large event occur during mid-winter, most of them will be dead by spring and unable to get in the way of spring planting!


 LOL,One way to look at it.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

1969cj-5 said:


> Nadja said:
> 
> 
> > I would also like to chime in on young people and jobs. I have noticed that there are quite a few people especially younger ones that can't seem to find a job. Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it.
> ...


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Nadja said:


> ...and 911 even if you cant figure out how to flush the toilet.


I was a dispatcher for a county sheriff's department in the early 2000's. People called 911 to ask what time it was, to find out how long to cook their Thanksgiving turkey, to ask what to do about a stuck window that wouldn't close, to ask what time the store closed, to get directions somewhere or even to ask if we knew where so-and-so lived. That's off the top of my head. Give me time to think and I could come up with some real head-scratchers.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Most American's are wimps...


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Seriously, are there any of us here that are surprised? One of my favorite pastimes when out in public is to just sit and watch people. I swear, you can just about pick them out... the ones that don't have a clue. Not only did one idiot call 911 after becoming lost in a cornfield maze, about a week later another Einstein called 911 because he and his family were lost in an orchard. IN AN ORCHARD for heaven's sake!

It will be bad enough where I am. I can only imagine what it will be like in a major urban area.


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Just imagine if you will, that tomorrow night the entire grid goes down. Lets see, the goobernut says if that should occur, that they could have it all back up from between 3 and 10 years. Yea right LOL, so in the meantime, how is the younger generation going to eat ? They don't know how to plant, raise or dig a garden, and are to lazy to do it in the first place. Then , even if they had a hog the most likely stole, they wouldn't know where or how to gut, clean, let alone cut it. Now would come the really tough part for most of them, how could they cook it with no power to turn on the micro thingie ? Would leave more good farming soil and space for the rest of us, not to mention water and air. 

You know what I really think would happen to most of the younger society if that were to happen ? I think they would sit in a corner and whine and cry until they starved to death. One more thing, good riddance


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

1969cj-5 said:


> I have offered several high school and post high school kids jobs cleaning out brush on my farm at 12 bucks an hour with no takers.


Ever consider getting a couple of goats? When/if the job is completed, the goats can be turned into dinner.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

During Katrina, the LEO and NG both were called out numerous times in the 12days of no power. I saw people sitting in their yards saying, we'll never recover.

Now the day of and day after when we were out doing our estimates, I saw plenty of folks with the 1000 yd stare, then when they realized we were there to start getting the power on, they would laugh and cry at the same time. And I'm talking about a general area of maybe 5000 population.

It will get ugly.

Jimmy


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

everyone wants a job, no-one wants to work

My favourite phrase at the moment when dealing with benefit scroungers


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

Having lived through the freak October storm 5 years ago that left much of Western NY without power, I was amazed at the number of people that had NO CLUE what to do. They expected that a 911 call would generate an immediate response for their furnace not working, or that the police would relocate their family to a warm location. Really????? Unusual circumstances coupled with unreasonable expectations can result in a bad outcome.

As an aside, I was on my street the first morning enjoying a piping hot cup of coffee when one of my neighbors came over and stood there, staring at me. He asked, incredulously, "where did you get that?". I asked him if he had a coleman coffee pot, and he looked at me like I was from another planet. I could have sold it for 20 bucks a cup.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

> Not only did one idiot call 911 after becoming lost in a cornfield maze, about a week later another Einstein called 911 because he and his family were lost in an orchard. IN AN ORCHARD for heaven's sake!


Those are the people that come out here to the Pacific Northwest, go into the mountains unprepared, get lost and our people have to go out looking for them.

Now in defense of younger people, my son is 18 already on his own, driving a pick-up he bought with his owm money, insured and working full time....How someone might ask...it is how they are raised.

Now my husband, he is 61...he was raised right in the middle of Chicago..No yard, all just in town all his life. I am 44 and often feel I am holding his hand when it comes to even starting a fire in our woodstove to keep us warm. I think it has to do with who raised you and also where you were raised.

Another note on how life is these days. My sons darling (no sarcasm, she is) girlfriend. Born and raised inside of Portlands city limits. We are finding she has almost never been outdoors, even up to the mountains, which is only a 45 minute drive from Portlands city limits. We live in a state that is about 97,000 square miles and she has only visited a few places.

Now knowing this I realized, multiply this by millions of young people who are so out of touch with the outdoors around them. Now imagine that with many of them being from the atypical dysfunctional welfare supported homes in the cities....

Early on I was taught a lot of basics, how to start fires in a fireplace as well as outdoors, how to improvise preparing food, how to find things to work with, shelters (we called them forts growing up, but they were lean-tos with ferns and soft fir branches, they were waterproof). So my childhood play and family camping were lessons in survival. Almost no one under 30 has had that anymore.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Our daughter moved back here to our property this year with her 34-year old husband, a city boy from Chicago. He came here knowing nothing about living in a rural area, working outdoors doing things like firewood cutting, building out-buildings, gardening, etc. Bless his heart, he's jumped in with a good attitude and been trying to learn it all. It's frustrating to him sometimes. But it was a bit of an eye-opener to me because I haven't been around city people much and I didn't realize how limited their knowledge is about these things. I assumed I knew something about city life from the movies and figured city people know something about country life from the movies.

Then I realized that most movies tend to portray rural people as slow, backward, inappropriate, out of fashion, etc. So maybe city life and city people aren't exactly like the movies, eh? 

I also assumed city people have the same opportunities to learn self-reliance skills as country people. Maybe they don't? Seems like a lot of savvy prepper city-dwellers on this site though. (golly, it's past my bed time, and my fingers are still talking/typing...)


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I think there are various levels of "country folk" and the same for "city folk". Gypysue... you would be just as lost in downtown Chicago as your 34 yr. old SIL initially was once he relocated to your place. I would bet that he knows how to get around, where to go, and where not to go. City folk, especially inner-city folk, are just as adapt at survival in their environment as the preverbal mountain man was in his. Different environments call for different skills. In both cases - urban and rural - survival requires common sense, intelligence, and adaptability. Switch places between a well-skilled country person with a well-skilled urbanite and both, in time, will adapt to their new environment because that ability exists in them both. They might prefer to be back where they came from, but they could adapt. Thats not to say that all who are switched would prosper. They wouldn't. But those who have the drive to be self-sufficient would.

OTOH, there exists those who could not survive in either environment if the environment meant that analytical skills are required, together with what we would recognize as "common sense" and adaptability. (Maybe all of those together could be defined as "cunning") Those people who got lost in the maze and the orchard come to mind. They are found in trailer parks, subsidized housing, and suburbia. Evidenced by having no appreciable skills of value towards survival in any challenging environment, shallow, they latch on to any latest fad, dolt on celebrities, are consummate consumers of the most trivial sort, they occupy that middle ground, all across the country. These are the people who would be dialing 911 and expecting almost instantaneous help. These are the people who have grown dependent in one way or another on government doing for them while they themselves spend their time pursuing immediate gratification. These are the ones who will act out in unpredictable ways, from sitting and giving up to attempting to slit your throat for anything you have. Thankfully, most of these people will not survive to become a permanent problem. A few weeks... a few months at most. Our best course of action would be avoidance, if possible.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Corn Maze*

Have you guys seen the corn maze for blonds?

It only has one stalk of corn !


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

It's interesting kids coming into scouting don't know anything about being in the out doors today. They don't even know how to dress for being in the cold weather & snow, would rather look COOL. The number of scouts is also shrinking do to a lack of interest, they would rather sit inside on the computer or do extra carricular school activities.(more goobernut control)The ones who do show up and catch on are a joy to have and are interested in learning. Every now and then we produce an Eagle.

Early on in scouting of 140 merit badges 118 were related to out door activities, today maybe 40 are. We now have a gaming & a chess playing merit badge. We have made it a policy not to have game boys on campouts, but they still sneak them in.

I have tried to teach them the older ways of doing things, cooking on a fire with out utinsels. Most of them can't even build a fire. Most of them can't read a highway map let alone a topographical map.

This is kind of a good thing because most of the zombies wont know how to find our BOL's and would most likely die trying.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> Gypysue... you would be just as lost in downtown Chicago as your 34 yr. old SIL initially was once he relocated to your place. I would bet that he knows how to get around, where to go, and where not to go.


Any city but Chicago, maybe! I grew up an hour and a half's drive from Chicago. We did our major and Christmas shopping there, took the train into the city to do it, when I was a kid. My best friend in high school had moved to our town from Chicago and we used to take the train into the city and out to Humbolt Park where she came from. Scary place. We rode the "El"s all over the city, the good the bad and the ugly parts. My Mom would have had a heart attack if she knew, but alas, she went to her grave a few years ago without ever knowing. Of course, that was back in the 70's, probably not quite as bad as now!

I have a good sense of direction and I've had to go into cities before, but even if I could find my way around, I'd be scared spitless! We've had people visit our remote homestead from cities, including New York, and most were terrified wild animals would chew them up. They kept expecting them to leap in the windows and shred them.

I think there will be a lot of frightened people who never leave the city, for better or worse, after the SHTF. It's the ones that DO that frighten me! They'll be the minority but they'll be dangerous. It's a game for life that they'll be playing, and they'll be desperate.

Sailaway, what you wrote about scouting today was very interesting. Sad to hear the scouts have gone that direction. I had thought it was the last place a lot of boys could learn the outdoorsy stuff.


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## Wags (Dec 29, 2008)

gypsysue said:


> I was a dispatcher for a county sheriff's department in the early 2000's. People called 911 to ask what time it was, to find out how long to cook their Thanksgiving turkey, to ask what to do about a stuck window that wouldn't close, to ask what time the store closed, to get directions somewhere or even to ask if we knew where so-and-so lived. That's off the top of my head. Give me time to think and I could come up with some real head-scratchers.


I worked dispatch in my younger years - sometimes in cities sometimes in the county. Man are there are lot of idiots out there that think 911 is their own personal assistant. But I have to say I think I took more jaw dropping stupid calls working in the city.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

sailaway said:


> It's interesting kids coming into scouting don't know anything about being in the out doors today. They don't even know how to dress for being in the cold weather & snow, would rather look COOL. The number of scouts is also shrinking do to a lack of interest, they would rather sit inside on the computer or do extra carricular school activities.(more goobernut control)The ones who do show up and catch on are a joy to have and are interested in learning. Every now and then we produce an Eagle.
> 
> Early on in scouting of 140 merit badges 118 were related to out door activities, today maybe 40 are. We now have a gaming & a chess playing merit badge. We have made it a policy not to have game boys on campouts, but they still sneak them in.
> 
> ...


Its still good that there are men that will take the time to participate in Scouting and teach the skills few boys have the opportunity to lean now. I was a scout, as were many of my friends. I also was an Ass't Scout Master for a short time. It required a lot of patience and resourcefulness.

GypsySue - Chicago was the first big city I was ever exposed to. I was on my way to Great Lakes Naval Training Center. We flew in to O'Hare at night and I was awe struck at all the lights! Spent a lot of time in Chicago on liberty.... Milwaukee, too. Not my cup of tea, but glad to have experienced it.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> Now in defense of younger people, my son is 18 already on his own, driving a pick-up he bought with his owm money, insured and working full time....How someone might ask...it is how they are raised.
> 
> Early on I was taught a lot of basics, how to start fires in a fireplace as well as outdoors, how to improvise preparing food, how to find things to work with, shelters (we called them forts growing up, but they were lean-tos with ferns and soft fir branches, they were waterproof). So my childhood play and family camping were lessons in survival. Almost no one under 30 has had that anymore.


Totally agree. We have 4 children, now adults. (2 sons, 2 daughters) The best thing we ever taught them was to be good, hard workers. All are super performers, looked at by others with incredulidity. They just do their job and do it well, whatever it is!

Case in point: Last week my husband and I were re-roofing a house. The forecast called for rain and we could see we weren't going to finish it in time. We called our youngest son (25) and his wife and they came and worked 10 hrs with us on Saturday to get it finished. I'm sure its the first time our daughter-in -law ever roofed a house, but she hustled and did a great job!

All four kids worked construction with us while growing up, worked on the homestead feeding animals, gardening, etc. Any of the four will jump to help do anything that needs done, often without being asked!

IT REALLY IS *HOW THEY ARE RAISED!!*


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

I read all the posts here and there is a quite a bit of bashing of the youth on this thread. I know most of you are older and I assume you are the parents of (some) these young people? Hopefully your kids arent the ones you are bashing. 

I also want to say thanks to those adults who mentor the youth like scout leaders, big bro, big sis, camp counselors, sunday school teachers, etc. You guys are taking up the slack from parents who have failed their children. You have taught many skills that their parents should have taught them but they were too busy. You guys are the heros!

Also a big thanks to the parents who werent too busy to raise their children properly!

The best thing you can do for a child is show them that they are worth your effort to teach them something. Give them confidence to do something and the ability to survive in this world (SHTF or not). I would challenge all of you to double up your efforts with the younger generation -- many are the way they are because nobody cared enough to give them the time of day. Be patient!


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Padre said:


> If anyone needs reassurance that prepping is a GOOD idea I would like to share two stories in the news here in the Northeast.
> 
> 1) Family lost in 7 acre corn maze call 911 for police assistance....
> 
> ...


 Thanks Padre for the info,I don't need a site from you because like most news its all over the place .
It good to remind people what they are up against now .


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## Wallrat (Oct 28, 2011)

Then there were those techie folks from San Fran that followed their Tom-tom route into the mountains, and got stuck in the snow for a couple of weeks. The Dad tried to walk out, only to die trying. Mom and the kids burned everything, including the tires trying to stay warm, were eventually rescued. Tom-tom forgot passes get snowed in during Winter, and they weren't smart enough not to take a deeply snow covered road. Too much time writing computer codes, not enough time in the real world.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

TheAnt said:


> I read all the posts here and there is a quite a bit of bashing of the youth on this thread. I know most of you are older and I assume you are the parents of (some) these young people? Hopefully your kids arent the ones you are bashing.
> 
> I also want to say thanks to those adults who mentor the youth like scout leaders, big bro, big sis, camp counselors, sunday school teachers, etc. You guys are taking up the slack from parents who have failed their children. You have taught many skills that their parents should have taught them but they were too busy. You guys are the heros!
> 
> ...


 Great post Ant.And accurant to a degree,but also many kids are the way they are through no fault of the parents other than having to send them to indoctrination union run porn centers known as schools today. many can't afford to homeschool and many mothers have to work 'thanks to the fems who caused a war between the genders'.
Its hard to be around many of the kids today,they are rude and most parents don'tsee it,including my own grandkids.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

You are so right about the younger people these days. We always need someone to work around our place. Raking leaves, helping to split firewood with a hydralic spliter, small building projects, mucking out the hen house. Have tried several highschool boys. My 67yr. old husband can work circles around them. One we hired did a fair job until I fed him lunch and then he just wanted to sit and yawn. Scarey when you think what's to come for this country.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Clarice said:


> You are so right about the younger people these days. We always need someone to work around our place. Raking leaves, helping to split firewood with a hydralic spliter, small building projects, mucking out the hen house. Have tried several highschool boys. My 67yr. old husband can work circles around them. One we hired did a fair job until I fed him lunch and then he just wanted to sit and yawn. Scarey when you think what's to come for this country.


My oldest moved out (given a choice of moving out or be thrown out). One friend and her roommate showed up to help. Wife and I did 75% of the work  Daughter complained that I was "pushing" her. Christ, it still took until late afternoon to get her moved in, and she didn't have much of anything. It saddened me to see how lazy they all were.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Theres a naighborhood kid around me that mows lawns and does light landscaping. I did pay him to help me clean up the monstrous mess I had made in what is now my garden. I grew up with woods in my backyard, and 'cleaning up sticks and such' meant hucking them into the woods. I had started a 'compost pile' while the girl was vehemently oppsed to, and it turned into a monstrous pile of sticks, etc. Its now my garden.
He mows a couple of my next door neighbors lawns, but I still enjoy mowing my own.
This kids got his head on straight. Big up to him.


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

Nadja said:


> Very interesting observation. I have felt this way for a very long time. Was talking to the owner of one of our two small grocery stores about this just yesterday in fact. More winers then anything else, especially when it comes to the younger people. I am in my 60's and have noticed a lot of change in people the last 25 years or so. Raised with a micro wave, frozen prepared cardboard dinners etc and 911 even if you cant figure out how to flush the toilet. Just got back in from checking on my solar imput and wind generator input. We had a "dusting of white stuff" last night and it is windy and the wind is like an ice storm. Brrrrrr.
> 
> I would also like to chime in on young people and jobs. I have noticed that there are quite a few people especially younger ones that can't seem to find a job. Yet there are jobs out there to be had. They just arn't "career" type jobs. I remember when I was younger, gas stations , car wash's, even washing dishes while summers out of school It seems to be beneath the younger people these days. Easier to just whine about it.
> 
> These same whiners are the same people that will be adults soon, voting (omg) and making decisions that determine the way our country will go. Imagine where that will take us. Like Greese I suppose. Lets all go out and have more worthless kids so that they can form a whining socity of do nothings.


I don't completely disagree, but who raised this young generation that way? Which generation makes up the majority of the decision makers in our government? Just sayin. :kiss:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Jaspar said:


> I don't completely disagree, but who raised this young generation that way? Which generation makes up the majority of the decision makers in our government? Just sayin. :kiss:


A lot of parents make excuses for their kids. They're too lazy to do the work of raising their kids right. My generation did a terrible job of parenting. I've done a good job of being a father. I raised my wife's son as my own. He was 4 when I married his mother. He's a respectful, responsible guy who turns 22 in December and doesn't have a sense of entitlement.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

I truly believe that the movie, Idiocracy, has foretold the future. rofl!


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## Jaspar (Feb 3, 2010)

BillS said:


> A lot of parents make excuses for their kids. They're too lazy to do the work of raising their kids right. My generation did a terrible job of parenting. I've done a good job of being a father. I raised my wife's son as my own. He was 4 when I married his mother. He's a respectful, responsible guy who turns 22 in December and doesn't have a sense of entitlement.


There are many gen Y and X-ers who would fit that description. I'm not 22, but I'm right in between X and Y and I know a lot of very responsible and capable young people. I also know a lot of complete idiots. :nuts:


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

> are consummate consumers of the most trivial sort


Jecruzen, I have seen this. Someone we knew, bought things like...oh, a hot chocolate maker....a potato masher....a chocolate fountain....numerous pets bought as entertainment" for her kids, that eventually starved to death (hamsters and such), or wound up being lost or handed over to someone else for lack of caring (cats, dogs..). Electric scooters bought for young teen boys that trashed them in weeks, electronic toys that were broken or left outside in the weather.

No appreciation of the effort it took to make the money to buy such gifts, and no appreciation about how fortunate they were enough to take care of what they had.

This is always the parents fault. Kids will only do as they are taught. I have seen kids from the strictest parents who gave little other than their love and time, and these kids were the most wonderful and appreciative.

Again, it is all about who has raised them with what values. I do believe there are plenty who turned out good, but there are some who did not and re-training them later on is not always possible.



> Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.


This would include raising them badly, they are not likely to depart from it either, sadly.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

It's how they are raised but also just as much it's attitude. You can overcome a "poor" childhood raising by having an attitude of wanting to do better. Wanting to learn. Our granddaughter is being raised as a "let's go shopping in the city" girl. When she visits grandma and grandpa we take her out into nature and teach her stuff. She is always asking to come visit us. 

I think a lot of the "problem" is the child rearing methods that came out I think in the mid 80's. The one that says everyone wins. There is no score. Everyone gets a trophy. While trying to give kids some self esteem is good, it made them all think they are good at everything. It eliminated failure as an option so kids haven't learned how to fail and recover and learn from that.

Further progression has those and later kids as the 20 somethings and even early 30's now in our workforce. These are the ones that expect stuff to be handed to them. If you're not constantly telling them how good of a job they're doing they think you hate them. They get upset when they're expected to do work instead of facebook and text and tweet all day.

Advertising has also keyed into this and I believe is re-enforcing this attitude. Next time you see commericals, ads, etc. look at the message. Many times it's communicates "You deserve this." and "Treat yourself." The one that really drives me nuts is the McDonalds ad touting that you you buy from the value menu (or whatever they call it) so you're a really smart person. These are all promoting the message that you're great and you should have everything you want handed to you just because you are you (and not becaused you have earned it).

Sound like people we all know and/or have seen on the news?


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

While I agree a lot of people have abdicated raising tir children t is also harder to raise children now, because there are a lot more negative (IMO) influences now then when I was growing up. every kid has tv and a computer they use them in school. What they are teaching in school is this progressive entitlement crap. I am so mad I am considering forgetting the job search and home schooling my boys. Before there were one or two lazy kids and most were hard working so hard work was the norm and ethic, now there are only one or two that wok and lazy is the norm.

I was talking to my scouts about being prepared includes school and getting good grades like A's and B's and one asked me what about a c, his teacher told him a c is good because it is passing and thats good enough? AUGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

lefty said:


> I was talking to my scouts about being prepared includes school and getting good grades like A's and B's and one asked me what about a c, his teacher told him a c is good because it is passing and thats good enough? AUGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Lefty, I appreciate what you do. :congrat:

Think how much self esteem that kid might gain from you telling him, "'good enough' is not good enough for you, you can do better!"


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

lefty said:


> While I agree a lot of people have abdicated raising tir children t is also harder to raise children now, because there are a lot more negative (IMO) influences now then when I was growing up.
> 
> I was talking to my scouts about being prepared includes school and getting good grades like A's and B's and one asked me what about a c, his teacher told him a c is good because it is passing and thats good enough? AUGHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I was comparing how we raised our two girls to the style used by two other local friends. We are all struggling with our late teen / early adult children. Three different distinct styles of parenting, but the kids all have the same messed up attitude.

With my youngest, she has the highest intelligence of anybody I've ever met... to actually said to me, "a D is still passing". I pretty much came unglued, unfortunately to no avail.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*In the Htg & Clg Biz*

In the heating & Cooling Business, I have had the experiance of hireing a lot of young people over the last few years for summer help.

This is what I learned about the adverage 18 year old.

I would assign them a task such as , cleaning the shop.

The automatic responce would be "Hey man , I didn't make this mess, why do I have to clean it up?"

What this tells me is that they have never been made to work except as a punishment.

Work should always be a privilage, never a punishment for children.

The message you want them to get is , if you work , you earn. If you earn you can buy what you want.

Kids are not taught this anymore. The parents are afraid they will get hurt or make a mess.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

Here is a depressing thought. These kids will be paying into our Social Security. CAN YOU SAY BANKRUPT? It has been my experience that about 20% of the "yutes" have thier heads on straight. 80% don't have a clue unless you tell them what it is.

A buddy of mine lives along one of the major entrances to a large high school. If I get out of work early I will stop by and have a beer or two with him. When we go outside to smoke I watch these kids heading home from school. Many of these kids are driven by fashion rather than function in the clothing choices they make. High heels and short skirts when there is snow on the ground.....Dumb. 80% have ear phones or buds in. at 50 feet I can hear the music and I am hard of hearing. I wonder how deaf they will be at 25. These kids are completely oblivious to thier surroundings. I have seen a couple of kids so unaware that they have walked out in front of moving cars. I am proud of these kids, inspite of all these perils. they do not miss one key when texting.

A few months ago a car stalled out in front of my house. The kid got out of his car with a dumbfounded look on his face and just stared at the car as if that would fix the problem. I gave him about 1/2 gallon of gas and pointed to the closest gas station...the idiot din't say thanks but started driving into the subdivision and away from the gas station. My son goes to school with this "dude" and choose to stay in the house and not assist. When I asked why my sons response was "I don't want to be associated with space cadets".

My son has confided in me that being a good kid isn't easy with all the ridicule he gets, not only from other students,but, by teachers. Teachers have made fun of him for his intrests in guns, shooting, fishing, hunting, wanting to be a lumberjack or a forester or an olympic skier (with teenagers it depends on the day). I want my son to dream. Ambition is a good thing.

Ther will be winners and losers in this world. Guess which one I want my kid to be. When the kids were younger and they did not get thier way I told them "Life is full of disappointments....get used to it". I then instructed them that if they wanted to have it thier way then they needed to put the effort into making it happen. My wife and I put a lot of time and effort into out kids and we are training them to be winners not whiners.

The "progressive" trend today is that every one wins. Horse Puckey. I want my Country back. If we are all equal and deserve the same I want a bigger house and no house payment(uncle Sugar will take care of that), new car and truck, OHHH and throw in a new boat and some new rifles and let me sleep in till the crack of noon, and, and, and...............

If I get any of those things it will be by the sweat of my brow. I hope the sheeple will wake up soon.....it's almost the crack of noon.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I am a 911 dispatcher for a city of 100,000 people. I had people call 911 because their Sunday paper wasn't delivered. I had 1 call where the guy's house was on fire and he was standing in the kitchen gasping for air. I asked him if he was trapped. He said no, he was waiting for the fire department. I had to tell him to wait outside in the front yard. He did not have enough sense to go outside. These are the people who are going to be the first to go when the SHTF.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I am a 911 dispatcher for a city of 100,000 people. I had people call 911 because their Sunday paper wasn't delivered. I had 1 call where the guy's house was on fire and he was standing in the kitchen gasping for air. I asked him if he was trapped. He said no, he was waiting for the fire department. I had to tell him to wait outside in the front yard. He did not have enough sense to go outside. These are the people who are going to be the first to go when the SHTF.


These are the kind of folks that need scratch-n-sniff stickers installed on the bottom of their pools!


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

kejmack said:


> I am a 911 dispatcher for a city of 100,000 people. I had people call 911 because their Sunday paper wasn't delivered. I had 1 call where the guy's house was on fire and he was standing in the kitchen gasping for air. I asked him if he was trapped. He said no, he was waiting for the fire department. I had to tell him to wait outside in the front yard. He did not have enough sense to go outside. These are the people who are going to be the first to go when the SHTF.


Yep. Its 0300 hrs. Dispatched to section 8 housing. Problem - tooth ache. After arriving - "How long has this tooth bothered you?" "Oh, about three days."

Medics have been on duty since 0730 the previous day. No sleep. BS calls.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

And I get lectured by the Police Chief for NOT calling and let them investigating something that really bothered me.

Live in a 15yo spec home sub, that gets a LOT of contractors coming through. Looked through the little peeper and this guy was off my front porch. As I open the door, he's "scratching" where most people conceal carry. No clipboard, no brochures, no logo'd clothing. I had answered the door with my 9mm loosely concealed. IDK


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## azurevirus (Jan 20, 2009)

Seems like there are alot of us older coots in this place..I remember when I was ..jeeze I really cant rember how old I was but my younger sister by a yr and I used to pick cotton for our candy money over near Dyersburg Tn along with our mother..used to walk from west side of Dyersburg to the very end of the east side to watch a movie..seems like most were Steve Reeves in a dubbed versions of Hercules..double feature.. remember my fav toys were a 5 or 10 cent water pistol ..was a chromeplated plastic snubnosed 38 if I recall and a wood dbl barrell shotgun made from a piece of wood shaped like a stock and the barrells where broom sticks..ol man made that for me..we used to go over a block and watch the "rich" kids tear up their yard with their go cart.watch them for hrs in the heat hoping they would let us just come over and sit on it for a couple seconds..we never imagined getting a ride..and we never did..all in all..good times back then


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

There is a huge sense of entitlement and "fairness" in a lot of peoples minds nowdays.

They feel entitled to what everyone else has worked hard for, entitled to have government do it all for them, and everyone wants everything to be fair. This started in the 70's when I was a kid in school.

We had a lot of the progressive mindset coming in and a lot of new teachers coming in trained this way, promoting "good enough", total fairness to all. Then in the 90's when my kids started coming into the schools, they started grading them on their best efforts, not their actual knowledge. Best guessing on their work was and still is encouraged, and they grade on this principle.

My oldest, now 28, has a 6 year old son, she was able to get him into a charter school. He wears a uniform, has strict rules, and is graded only on what he actually shows he knows. She said it is "old fashioned" (groan) but really good.

See all, old-fashioned is not un-cool, it is very cool!!!LOL

Speaking of this entitlement thing. We have been watching the local news about the "Occupy" protesters and campers in downtown Portland (Oregon). We know one cop and he was ready to nail some butts, said they were all tired of pussyfooting around with these punks down there. Fortunately for all, some level headed original protestors (the group camping were not part of the original "Occupy" group really) came in and helped quell things and start clean up. However before this, most of the group camping were just cocky, one interviewed yelled at the camera "we will occupy, occupy the world". They have been down there getting free food, medical care, blankets...the list seems endless.

All the while people like us are working hard for next years gardens, collecting eggs, tending to livestock, stocking shelves in our homes, chopping wood, working full time, taking care of families, and we do not get one free things and are certainly not asking for it. These people feel entitled to have this stuff for free while they play around camping in a donwtown city park against all the city codes and rules.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I've become quite the crudgmudgen. I think thats spelled correctly, but if its not then I don't care. (Thats all part of being a crudgmudgen, not caring what others think.) 

I now say what I think, or, to put it another way, I say what I know. I have spent a lot of time educating myself on the issues we face, including WHY we are facing a lot of those issues. Some people don't appreciate my forthrightfulness, but I don't care because I'm a crudgemudgen, you see. I've been called "racist", "homophobe", "red neck", "vigilante" and some names I can't print here. But, I don't care. In fact, I have a feeling of freedom over it all - speaking my mind, that is. After all, I can't be fired over it any longer and it isn't against the law... yet.

The problem as I see it is that too many Americans won't take the time to really take a hard look at whats happening to us as a society. Somehow they are able to ignore the elephant standing in the room. As one acquaintance told me (I really can't refer to him as a friend any longer) is that he will worry about "it" when it happens and until then he will continue to just enjoy himself with his adult toys. Well, thats quite the "grasshopper" approach, isn't it? Too many are like that. And don't bring up the bad side of whats happening to them. They will hate you for it. Ask me how I know.

We have allowed a consummate evil to infiltrate and infest our sacred institutions. Most especially our educational institutions that we charged with educating our children. If they didn't get de-programmed afterwards at home they could be camping out at any of these "occupy" shame protests... or worse.

I know some of you are cool towards religion. I personally do not adhere to any organized religion myself. But whether you call it satan, bezzlebub, evil, negative vibs, or just plain bad luck, it has enveloped the entire glob at this point and there are few refuges of light remaining. American may be the last. Once she is gone there will not be another in our life times. She is worth saving regardless of the price!

(I have a terrific head cold. I feel bad. And I'm in a really bad mood. So, bear with me.)


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Sorry to hear you're not feeling good. Your post is good, though. :congrat:

("Curmudgeon" is how I've always spelled it. Same word?)


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

I was gonna say that when I grow up I'm gonna be a crudgmudgen, too - but I think I have already achieve crudgmudgend status. I think I'm in good company! 

Feel better!


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Thanks, folks. I do feel better on this semi-dark Monday morning. I think I'll do what crudgemudgens do all day today.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Overall, this nation has allowed itself and it's values to be watered down, in many ways. Our government has looked the other way with illegal border crossers (and done nothing to quell it once they are here), an overt amount of immigrants in unsustainable numbers. When you have controlled immigration, and not in huge numbers, people will assimilate because they came as a minority and it was necessary to fit in, but in larger groups, they do not and trouble ensues. There is a demand on our system for resources (people start demanding interpreters, services in their language, etc..), pretty soon money we have put into the system through taxes is being drained away to accomodate large migrations into our nation, instead of maintaining our infrastructure....

Schools become overcrowded with children who have to be accomodated till they learn English...the list of needs over-immigration causes seems endless.

Then there is our own dysfunctional population. Dysfunctional breeds dysfunctional. To make matters worse, with progressivism infitrating our entire system, we support this dysfunctionality by giving these people money and free food and medical, we baby them along trying to "help" them out of addictions, we spend money handling their children because they could not.

Our nation has spent so much time and effort helping people who really just need a kick in the ______, that we are going broke. This is part of our nations problem. We need to get out of the social service industry and get back to kicking people off the rolls and into working for their living. We need to stop allowing overt amount of immigration, limiting who comes in and how many each year.

Immigration itself is not a bad thing, but like anything, can become too much of a good thing when it is overdone. 

If we could get a handle on this progressive garbage, boot it to the curb, stop taking care of the dysfunctional, and stop letting the world in the door, we could get this nation back in shape. It is what we need.

It is a strong opinion, not one I am ashamed of, and not afraid to say it. No one should be, this is our nation and if we want it back, we have to speak up and let those we have allowed to get control of things (although they should not be) to know WE are in charge.

Till then, unless enough Americans are willing to speak out, we have to plan as if our nation could fail, which we are seeing the beginnings of financially (there is a host of problems beyond the ones I mentioned).


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> Overall, this nation has allowed itself and it's values to be watered down, in many ways. Our government has looked the other way with illegal border crossers (and done nothing to quell it once they are here), an overt amount of immigrants in unsustainable numbers. When you have controlled immigration, and not in huge numbers, people will assimilate because they came as a minority and it was necessary to fit in, but in larger groups, they do not and trouble ensues. There is a demand on our system for resources (people start demanding interpreters, services in their language, etc..), pretty soon money we have put into the system through taxes is being drained away to accomodate large migrations into our nation, instead of maintaining our infrastructure....
> 
> Schools become overcrowded with children who have to be accomodated till they learn English...the list of needs over-immigration causes seems endless.
> 
> ...


I agree 100% and as is several folks motto around here I "hope for the best and prepare for the worlst".


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

> "hope for the best and prepare for the worst".


It's all you can do right now. I see too many people, some family of mine included, that hope for the best and do not prepare for the worst, they just go on skipping through life just hoping it will all be better tomorrow. I am no Orphan Annie ("the sun will come out tomorrow" thought-line) seeing what we are seeing these days, I think we are in a for a heck of a bumpy ride, I'd rather be ready to weather it.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

HoppeEL4 said:


> It's all you can do right now. I see too many people, some family of mine included, that hope for the best and do not prepare for the worst, they just go on skipping through life just hoping it will all be better tomorrow. I am no Orphan Annie ("the sun will come out tomorrow" thought-line) seeing what we are seeing these days, I think we are in a for a heck of a bumpy ride, I'd rather be ready to weather it.


So many of us have had the same experience with family and friends. I'm certain that a few people I know think I'm some sort of wacko. It isn't even worth taking about it with anyone any longer.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> So many of us have had the same experience with family and friends. I'm certain that a few people I know think I'm some sort of wacko. It isn't even worth taking about it with anyone any longer.


Amen,

The wife thought I was nuts at first many years ago, then moved to an indifferent view now she is fairly understanding with moments of support. Most people that I mention it too think it is kind of nuts so now I just go along an do my thing. If it happens then we are ready, if not oh well.

I agree it is just not worth talking about any more.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Possumfam said:


> I was gonna say that when I grow up I'm gonna be a crudgmudgen, too - but I think I have already achieve crudgmudgend status. I think I'm in good company!
> 
> Feel better!


Hey, are crudmudgens akin to splodydopes? 

We're kin if they are!!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

BillS said:


> A lot of parents make excuses for their kids. They're too lazy to do the work of raising their kids right. My generation did a terrible job of parenting. I've done a good job of being a father. I raised my wife's son as my own. He was 4 when I married his mother. He's a respectful, responsible guy who turns 22 in December and doesn't have a sense of entitlement.


Congratulations on that front--but I will say this..I'm what EVERY mother and father would want for a child..:congrat::ignore::congrat:
my drug addict sister?? my wh**ing sister?? my selfish, self-oriented brother?? 
Not so much...so environment or genetics?? that argument never was settled.

Jezcruzen says: it has enveloped the entire glob at this point and there are few refuges of light remaining. American may be the last. Once she is gone there will not be another in our life times. She is worth saving regardless of the price!

And we will prep until that 'LAST' light is out. Like Motel 6--we'll keep the light on for ya.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

My husband is for it, but he is chronically city-fied that cutting wood, and the sort, is mainly something I end up doing and employing our son (who now lives outside our home, but will work for food from moms pantry). I can get my husband involved on a good day, and as I said he is for it, but the enthusiasm I would like for him to have, is just not there.

As for family, no one has yet seen my growing stock pile except our son, not even our oldest daughter (she has been out here but does not go in our garage). I currently have a piece of furniture in our garage for a family member, and when he comes out to get it, the cat will be out of the bag, he will see the stockpile. Though, to his credit (one of 4 brothers), he is all for being prepared, unfortunately, his life is messy right now and doing so for himself and his teens would be a huge challenge. 

I encourage family, I keep reminding them, we could experience another Depression, or worse, and having some necessities on hand to get them through till they can set themselves up in a garden and all, would be wise.....I just think they really do not see how serious it is right now.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

A wind from the sea in the Pacific blew my oldest in and he is back home... at least for awhile. Unemployment within the commercial fishing industry in Washington state pushed him back here. We are glad to have him back safe and not out hunting crab in a tiny boat. Now that chaos and misery (soon to be followed by violence) is upon most of the world, I can use another pair of hands around here and another trigger finger if it comes to that. Two sons are here, now, and a third is within half a tank driving distance. 

I watch Beck on his new internet network. Last night he had some interesting people as guests to talk about and decipher for those slow on the uptake whats happening in the world. Scary stuff! Glad to have family close by.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I hear ya Jez, my Son is back with us also and it has taken a lot of the load off of me having him here.
Speaking of an extra trigger finger, he is tickled pink with the M-4 and Savage 110 Tactical that was waiting for him when he got home.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

oldvet said:


> I hear ya Jez, my Son is back with us also and it has taken a lot of the load off of me having him here.
> Speaking of an extra trigger finger, he is tickled pink with the M-4 and Savage 110 Tactical that was waiting for him when he got home.


Mine showed up with a scoped 10/22 and a Mossberg 12 ga. pump... and a pit bull!  I have enough to round his "equipment" out. He was a Gunner's Mate in the Navy. That helps.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> Mine showed up with a scoped 10/22 and a Mossberg 12 ga. pump... and a pit bull!  I have enough to round his "equipment" out. He was a Gunner's Mate in the Navy. That helps.


Sounds good, especially the "watch dog". Those pit's are mean motor scooters when they go after an "uninvited guest".
That scoped 10/22 is a sweet multi use rifle and an excelent addition to your "equipment" and the 12 ga. is also another excellent multi use firearm, good score all around.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

my pit is half the size of a German Shepard and weighs almost 90 lbs of pure muscle. hell she doesn't have to bite she can just run you over and then sit on you. you would be out cold and could move. then she would give you a bath. lol


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

My son's pit is sweet enough with us. But he is a city dog and not accustomed to chickens.... MY CHICKENS! He caught one of my barred rocks yesterday and would have killed her had I not heard the commotion and intervened. Not sure how to solve the problem.:scratch Will work on it, though.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Electric Collar*



Jezcruzen said:


> My son's pit is sweet enough with us. But he is a city dog and not accustomed to chickens.... MY CHICKENS! He caught one of my barred rocks yesterday and would have killed her had I not heard the commotion and intervened. Not sure how to solve the problem.:scratch Will work on it, though.


Buy him an electric collar.

Expose him to the chickens and watch when he goes for a chicken , just before he closes in for the kill, zap him.

Do not yell at him. You want him to associate the shock with the chickens , not you stoping him.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

BillM said:


> Buy him an electric collar.
> 
> Expose him to the chickens and watch when he goes for a chicken , just before he closes in for the kill, zap him.
> 
> Do not yell at him. You want him to associate the shock with the chickens , not you stoping him.


My neighbor's dog (deceased now) wouldn't dare leave the perimeter of the yard that thing worked so well.:congrat:


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

BillM said:


> Buy him an electric collar.
> 
> Expose him to the chickens and watch when he goes for a chicken , just before he closes in for the kill, zap him.


Yep. Works like a dream. We rescued a large mixed breed dog that thought the chickens were his personal play toys. He started keeping a wide berth after 3-4 zaps. The collar is off now but he still keeps his distance.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

When we lived down in the suburbs and were allowed to have a few chickens, an escapee pair of dogs (black lab mix and husky) found a small gap between our fences and our neighbors, squeezed in and had a riot chasing the hens and snapping their necks. Killed our best hen, an Isa Brown (unbelievable egg layer). They snarled and bore their teeth to our screaming (then) 12 year old daughter intent on saving the hens. County animal control came in, took the dogs and the owners never came for them. Since they were considered "animal aggressive" they put them down.

I felt terrible, you could tell after we caught hold of them, that they were babies, and of course not ever having been exposed to chickens, not trained ever, they could not help the urge of nature. I thought it was sad neglectful owners caused their demise this way (though, mind you, I am not a dog person and do not have one).

I applaud owners, like you all, that take the time to train the dogs appropriate behavior with other animals (and of course people). Too many lazy owners out there who just don't care.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

HoppeEL4 said:


> They snarled and bore their teeth to our screaming (then) 12 year old daughter intent on saving the hens.


Hopp, I would not feel badly about any dogs, much less strange dogs, that are put down if they snarl at my kids on my own property. In fact, I would have shot them on the spot.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

horseman09 said:


> in fact, i would have shot them on the spot.


x2 !


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I felt bad, but only because they had been neglected enough in lack of training and socializing by their owners. Had they been trained and socialized right, there was less of a chance any of this would have happened. BTW, both males and unneutered, county said there had been numerous ventures by those two and had been returned numerous times after their yard escapes. This also played into their desire to wander, and the rest followed.

After the chicken killing was over, they showed zero aggressiveness to us, it was during the rampage when they were excited. Though, sure I have no tolerance for this behavior, just giving the background on how it all went.

I feel if people would work hard with their dogs, train and socialize, there should be no problems, of course once in a while you have a dog who cannot be dealt with, then of course, they cannot be trusted and should be put down. I just don't think those dogs were overtly aggressive, but what's done is done.

BTW, I have four cats, we don't have this problem, the hens keep them in like!!!LOL


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

on the education of our youth... my dh taught an private vo-tech school for a short while. he quit because of a couple of reasons. one the students would talk on their cell phones in class and when he would try to insist on paying attention they would curse at him. :gaah: when two students were seen steeling a test answer sheet from his desk, he was told not they were not going to suspend the students because they had paid for the school and deserved to be there no matter what. :surrender: when he changed the order of the test questions and they failed the test, he was told to add extra bonus points so that they could pass with a good grade. when one on his students was arrested for stabbing her live-in, they wanted him to go to the jail with her class work so she would not fall behind.  this college teaches medical courses and they did not ask the students about felonies which you can not have. they said it was the students responsibility to know what was required in their field of study. needless to say, the only thing this school wanted was the $$$$$ from grants and loans.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

Possumfam said:


> Ever consider getting a couple of goats? When/if the job is completed, the goats can be turned into dinner.


We have several pygmy goats now, but they do not like clearing fence line either. Kind of hit or miss. They make great pets and a potential food source though so I will keep them around.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I agree about the work ethic in some of the younger generation, but I disagree that they will all be trying to call 911 and when they can't get any help will curl up into a helpless ball and starve to death. I would imagine that some of the inner city's neighborhoods are filled with people who see and participate in "combat" type situations every day. They will be the first ones to look Radio Shack for the tvs and then when they get hungry, won't hesitate to loot all grocery stores. When that food is gone, they will take their guns from house to house and kill anybody who gets in the way of them and a full tummy. They may not be able to hold down a job at McDonald's, but they will NOT starve to death without a fight. Once they cities are completely plundered and burned, they will migrate out into rural areas in 'packs'. I would hesitate to take these people to lightly after TSHTF. They may not be contributing anything now, but they will be a real force to reckon with after.


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## yankeeswagman (Oct 20, 2011)

when i was a kid my uncle had a dog that killed chickens. Dad said i'll fix him. He took the chicken that was killed and tied it around my uncles dog's neck just tight enough so the dog couldn't lose it. All day long the dog tried to get away from that thing. In the evening dad took the chicken off.. after that the dog wouldn't even look at another chicken. works most of the time. Just a suggestion.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

We also had a problem with dogs killing chickens when I was a kid, the chicken tied around the neck worked for us also except we left it there until it fell off on its own. 

We also had problem with dogs "sucking" eggs from our chickens which layed anywhere they cared to, Free Range back then. We got about a dozen eggs, put a small hole in each end and blew the contents out then filled em up with cayenne pepper and put them back in the nest. It didn't take long for the egg sucking to stop.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

Davarm said:


> We also had a problem with dogs killing chickens when I was a kid, the chicken tied around the neck worked for us also except we left it there until it fell off on its own.
> 
> We also had problem with dogs "sucking" eggs from our chickens which layed anywhere they cared to, Free Range back then. We got about a dozen eggs, put a small hole in each end and blew the contents out then filled em up with cayenne pepper and put them back in the nest. It didn't take long for the egg sucking to stop.


I'll have to try the cayenne pepper trick...my dog has been known to sneak into the henhouse and dine on eggs. We have thought she was cured then a few weeks later I;m not getting any eggs again. I will try this and hopefully cure her for good!


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

For those who think that the cayenne is too cruel, you can use cinnamon also. If you doubt its effectiveness just put a spoonfull in your mouth and try to swollow it, just make sure you have someone standing by with a video camera-then send the tape into Americas Funniest Home Videos.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Davarm, I have Vietnamese cinnamon, 5% oil, has a natural sweetness to it, and I could sit and finger dip into it all day..but thats just me. I know a cat or dog would not like it. One other thing dogs do not like is the smell of Mantholatum...Bag Balm...and Pine Oil Balm. Bet some cinnamon oil or peppermint oil would also be something that could be used. Our cats hate anything minty. Though, my brother did have a dog that would steal candy canes off of the Christmas tree, so stick to Mentholatum.


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