# Tobacco, Wine/Spirits



## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

So I see a lot that tobacco and alcohol will be great barter items. I was thinking about purchasing some of these items soon, but not sure where to even start. As an occassional smoker myself, I've got my supply. I was leaning towards maybe picking up some of the canisters of tobacco for trade. Their cheap here, I think about 10 bucks a canister. So I thought maybe 6 cans of different flavors. Most already come with papers and rollers, which would help in any trade. I also thought about getting a couple pounds of pipe tobacco, but keeping it fresh without the fancy boxes could be difficult. How much do you keep in supply?

As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints. 

What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I don't know that I would waste my time/money with Boones Farm, or really, wine in general. Wine is pretty easy to make, and I would imagine that people will start cranking it out pretty quickly in the case of a complete loss of infrastructure.

Liquor will be much harder to find (immediately, until stills get set up and people figure out what they are doing) and as such, will have more trade value. 

I would purchase whisky, whiskey, bourbon, and vodka, with perhaps some gin or rum thrown in to the mix. Whisky, whiskey, and bourbon drinkers will generally drink either of the three, if needs be; I know I probably drink mostly Irish whiskey, my favorite is a good Scotch whisky, but I will drink bourbon if that is all that my host has to offer. Most Americans drink some form of the "brown" liquors. Vodka probably has the most versatility, as an ideal vodka should be colorless, odorless, and tasteless, so it mixes well with other things and is a good base for infusions. 

As for the sizes which one should purchase, think of it like money: Is it easier to make change for a $20 or a $100? A variety of sizes would be good if you have the room to stock it; pints, 750ml bottles, and gallon bottles are all good sizes which would give you a lot of variety with which to trade. 

I used to be a bartender and a bar manager.... I can go on and on about booze!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I agree with Turtle about the wine and liquor. We started to stock 'booze' for barter and then realized many of our relatives, neighbors, and friends were already making wine and other alchohol products (whiskey and rum), so they wouldn't have a lot of trade value. And like Turtle said, more will start making it. They'll make stills. Btw, I've heard a pressure canner can be used, somehow, for a whiskey still, but I don't know how that works. 

We've stored tobacco products, vacuum-sealed, for barter. I don't know what happens to them after time, but since tobacco doesn't grow in our climate I figure at least it's something. After vacuum-sealing each pack or can separately we put them in an airtight bucket and stored it in our dark, cool root cellar where there's a steady temperature. A person could go a step better and put Co2 packets or oxygen absorbers in the bucket as well. 

One thing I can offer regarding wine and liquor is if you consume it yourself right now, save your bottles. The people we know who make wine, whiskey, and rum are always asking around for bottles. We also save the glass bottles from olive oil and wash them out good. They would work for wine or liquor. If you have a place to store them, you might be able to trade "X" number of empty booze bottles for one that's filled! I know people also use mason jars, but I'd rather keep mine for canning actual food!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Good call on saving the bottles... my grandmother used to make wine and my mother has just started since she retired and has nothing better to do. You should see the goofy assortment of bottles in her basement!

Just an FYI about that; for wine, the darker bottles work better, but for hooch it doesn't really matter.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

If you need trade bottle just keep old coke or Pepsi bottles. fill them up when you trade. the large bottles of alcohol are cheaper and easier to store. I have some bottles that are 8 oz that I bought for my hot sauce, hand lotions and soaps that I sell. got them for 30 cents each. so I will use them.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

stayingthegame said:


> If you need trade bottle just keep old coke or Pepsi bottles. fill them up when you trade. the large bottles of alcohol are cheaper and easier to store. I have some bottles that are 8 oz that I bought for my hot sauce, hand lotions and soaps that I sell. got them for 30 cents each. so I will use them.


The problem with that is that if it is not in an original, sealed container, you have no idea what you are getting. I personally wouldn't trade for any booze that wasn't in it's original sealed container, because you will have unscrupulous types cutting their vodka with water, or worse, rubbing alcohol or turpentine. There are a lot of dangers that go along with bootlegging; it's the origin of the "pimp walk" that you see kids emulating without even knowing the origin. Poor blacks in the south often drank moonshine that had been cut with other chemicals to make it stronger and cheaper; this would cause nerve damage and make them limp.

Unless I was trading with someone whom I well knew, I would not take the chance of drinking unknown liquor.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

Awesome Turtle! thnx everyone for the comments. The Boone's farm was more for us. With a frozen chill, it basically tastes the same as my $15 bottle wine. My grandpa actually makes wine, and I hadn't thought about needing my own bottles to refill. I would only take consumable products from people I would trust always also. There's a local here that makes a good moonshine, and you gotta bring ur own jar. I picked up 2 cases of mason jars for just in case...those will make nice whatever jars.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I make my own wines and most of them are aging in the one gallon glass jugs cuz I don't have enuf wine bottles at the moment. But lucky for me I do have about 8 empty gallon jugs that I can rack my nearly finished wines into so that I can start over again... But I am down to only one packet of good yeast.. Most folks use on whole pack for one gallon of wine but me I have learned to take just a bit of the juice(or fruit) and start some yeast in a smaller amount and when it takes off I then can dump it into the bigger amount of juice/fruit. I can make several gallons of wine with only one tiny packet... Now to learn how to "wash" my lees and get the yeast back out... You can start wine with the left overs of the first batch and you can do that a few times before any bad yeasts start to take over. 
One good side product of wine is also vinegar... I have made my own vinegar but it was only just Okay-I needed to take better care of it and it molded on me before it turned all the way...


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Emerald, you are so cool! I've learned so much from you! 

I bet a person could drop in at a bar or other place that serves wine and liquor, especially toward the end of the evening, and ask for empties? At least I'm pretty sure our local friendly tavern/restaurant/community-gathering-place bar would. You know, if you need some bottles right now.

I've never made wine but it sounds like something I could and should learn. I like the idea of being able to make vinegar too.

Do you use regular baking yeast? I've heard of "champagne yeast", like for making root beer. I wasn't able to find any back when we were going to try to make root beer. I bought the root beer extract and that's where it stopped.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Emerald, you are so cool! I've learned so much from you!
> 
> I bet a person could drop in at a bar or other place that serves wine and liquor, especially toward the end of the evening, and ask for empties? At least I'm pretty sure our local friendly tavern/restaurant/community-gathering-place bar would. You know, if you need some bottles right now.
> 
> ...


I've thought about checking one of the big wedding venue places here to see if they would save the champagne bottles and wine bottles but the gas prices are a bit too steep to run and get them every Sunday. I don't mind the gallon jugs but that is a bit of drinking to do at one sitting so most of the time I only take it to big family events.. My wine tends to be a tad "high octane" too... gotta work on that... lol. I buy a couple different types of wine yeasts.. one is a champagne type. one of the ones I like the best makes a high alcohol content yet also retains a really nice fruity/floral flavor. Lavlin LC-1118. I want to start brewing beer this year as I am getting quite a few hops on my bines.
I heard that bread yeasts do better with beers if you run out of other yeasts. as most beer is yeasty anyhoo.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

I just put the word out for friends and relatives to save wine bottles. I have 200+ bottles of wine in bottles right now, 9 different kinds


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

I'm with Turtle with one addition. 190 proof Everclear. Kind of a catch-all booze and can also be used as an antiseptic.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

bczoom said:


> I'm with Turtle with one addition. 190 proof Everclear. Kind of a catch-all booze and can also be used as an antiseptic.


It would be good for making tinctures of good medicinal herbs too. Plus if you put a bit in home made wines it would fortify them and make them last longer without using sulfites.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

bczoom said:


> I'm with Turtle with one addition. 190 proof Everclear. Kind of a catch-all booze and can also be used as an antiseptic.


Can't argue with that logic!

When I was working in bars, we would periodically have people stop by and ask for our empty bottles. The trick is to stop by early in the night before it gets busy, so they can save them through-out the night. Most often, the bartenders are happy to help out.


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## BlackPaladin (Oct 20, 2008)

Turtle said:


> Wine is pretty easy to make, and I would imagine that people will start cranking it out pretty quickly in the case of a complete loss of infrastructure.


First thing after they got out of the ark!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

BlackPaladin said:


> First thing after they got out of the ark!


If the only people left alive in the world were my family.... I would need a drink, too!


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I was reading about an account of colonists first making landfall in the "New World" and the first order of business was setting up to brew beer. :beercheer:

Then there was an article about our Founding Fathers and how they seldom would drink water due to the chance of getting sick, so they mostly drank spirits during the day. Makes me wonder if they were often buzzed during the organizing and formation of our Republic. 

I live close to the moonshining capital of the US - Franklin County, Va. If the maker takes pride in their product, some really good 'shine can come out of those woods. OTOH, if quick profit is the motive you could be drinking pure death.

To the north of me is Nelson County. Its famous for its apple and peach brandy due to the number of large orchards that flourish there. Story was that at Christmas time, the Superintendent of the State Police would have a trooper stop by the little store up there. While he was inside having a Coke, someone would place a gallon of apple brandy in the trooper's car, which was meant for the Superintendent.

Many of these notorious whiskey and brandy making areas have switched to a new product - marijuana. Its easier to produce, transport, and market.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Jezcruzen said:


> I was reading about an account of colonists first making landfall in the "New World" and the first order of business was setting up to brew beer. :beercheer:
> 
> Then there was an article about our Founding Fathers and how they seldom would drink water due to the chance of getting sick, so they mostly drank spirits during the day. Makes me wonder if they were often buzzed during the organizing and formation of our Republic.
> 
> ...


I used to live in Roanoke and work in Christiansburg ... I am very familiar with that area and it moonshine! My best friend still lives down there; his wife is from Franklin County. You should check out a book that I just finished, "Chasing the White Dog", a lot of it takes place in Franklin County.:beercheer:


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## mickbear (Apr 9, 2009)

its a lot easier to make liquor than most folks think.as far as tobacco goes i dont smoke and never have,dont plan to either, but i grow tobacco in my garden every year.you can get a bunch of tobacco seeds for next to nothing.its some what easy to grow,and doesn't take up much space.i cut the leaves through out the summer and hang them to dry in my shop then vacume seal them when i get a good bunch.i gave some to a nieghbor and he said they were good.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

We have some hard liqueur put away. Need to start making some wine. I have about 20 cases of home brewed beer put away and aging!!


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Never, never, NEVER.......trade your guns, bullets, wisky, tabacco or coffee for anything..............they will drink your wisky and then return your bullets by air mail with your guns................and tabacco and coffee? they will want more and more and if they don't have the money, or trading material, they will try and take it from you by force.


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## donpapa (Aug 8, 2011)

FWIW, I'm with Ponce, Bartering vice products means dealing with addicts, when they have nothing to trade, they are still addicts, drugs, booze or nicotine. If they'll rob liquor stores today, what about when there are no liquor stores and you are a known source?
Now I make a little wine and have makes some shine but I'll never swap for it.
Donpapa


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Ponce,
You make a good point, however there may come a time when you may have to barter for some things that you really need. In that case of need I would be extra careful who I traded with and I certainly wouldn't give them any intel about me or mine. 
I also like the idea of stocking everclear that was posted earlier. I tend to lean more toward sugar, salt, honey and coffee as excellent barter material. 

:wave:You folks have a lot of excellent ideas in your posts and I thank you for them.

oldvet


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## Dr_Wood (Apr 26, 2010)

As far as tobacco I am a smoker and have been doing some research of growing my own tobacco. I don't think its hard to grow or cure to smoke. If you are going to store it I would suggest a deep freeze or at least a regular freezer. Tobacco goes stale at room temperature fairly quickly. I don't know much about wine however I have made my own root beer before which is very similar to making beer. It turned out pretty terrible, I must have used to much yeast or something because my root beer fermented and I ended up with root beer beer, it was pretty disgusting.


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

You people haven't lived in or seen what I saw in Cuba... you should make everything that you have last and last and last........treat every thing like if it is the last one and plan how to get some more.........even if you still have 99 left...........................people can tell you this and that and the other but unless you have been there and seen it it will mean nothing but clouds in the sky that will fade away.

The first (and more important) thing that you must get ready is your mind, get ready to accept what will happen and don't go crazy on me...or your loved ones.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Ponce said:


> The first (and more important) thing that you must get ready is your mind, get ready to accept what will happen and don't go crazy on me...or your loved ones.


I agree completely with this statement, however, I would argue that this is exactly the purpose of threads such as this. The vast majority of us have never been in a situation such as you describe, so the theorizing of how one might react is the mind's way of developing pathways of thought. Think of is as a mental fire drill, like those performed by children in school; they practice how to behave, what to do, and where to go in emergency situations, so that should an actual emergency occur, they are prepared.

This is much the same for us. We have never _had_ to live in a barter-based economy, but in performing these mental exercises, we will be more prepared should that eventuality come in to play. We will not be the ones scrambling to figure how we will survive and get what we need, as we have already planned some sort of scenario in our heads.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

Wow, lot's of stuff. Well let's see...A friend of mine says that he grew tobacco before. The hummingbirds like it. Rootbeer Beer doesn't even sound good. I've never been to Cuba and haven't even heard of anything from there, but I don't have the means to purchase absolutely everything that I will or might need. Trading a bottle of vodka in the middle of a field for a bag of baby items they had in their attic, may be something I need to be aware of.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Depending on the area of the country you are in, growing tobacco should be relatively easy. After all, native Americans were quite successful at it. It was my grandfather's "money crop". 

He raised flu tobacco that was cured over several months in a furnace-fired tobacco barn. I have watched as he took a tobacco leaf, removed the stem, and rolled his own cigar. Came out perfect.

I'm sure, should economic conditions bottom out, that some enterprising individuals will make it their business growing, curing, and processing tobacco products. Same with alcohol. Home distilleries would begin popping up like weeds as would hemp, (marijuana) patches.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

ashley8072 said:


> Wow, lot's of stuff. Well let's see...A friend of mine says that he grew tobacco before. The hummingbirds like it. Rootbeer Beer doesn't even sound good. I've never been to Cuba and haven't even heard of anything from there, but I don't have the means to purchase absolutely everything that I will or might need. Trading a bottle of vodka in the middle of a field for a bag of baby items they had in their attic, may be something I need to be aware of.


Excellent points. Unless you have unlimited funds,time, and storage space there is no way you can lay in everything you could possibly want or need in a SHTF situation. There will always be something cropping up that you didn't plan on. There will come a time that you will need to barter for something that you absolutely need at the time (especially something medical). You should know the folks living near you and who you can trust. If we were to have to go back to the barter system you had better be ready, willing and able to exchange goods as needed. I am not trying to argue with anyone I am just posting my thoughts and ideas, and yes root beer beer sounds seriously nasty.

oldvet:beercheer:


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Keep in mind that including barter items in you inventory is only to get you started. Having those items will buy you a little time on the front end, but you really need to know how to make, produce, manufacture products that people will need and want. Whether its furniture or hooch, you should plan now for some niche that will help carry you for the long haul.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Jezcruzen said:


> Keep in mind that including barter items in you inventory is only to get you started. Having those items will buy you a little time on the front end, but you really need to know how to make, produce, manufacture products that people will need and want. Whether its furniture or hooch, you should plan now for some niche that will help carry you for the long haul.


Very true! This is why skills are much more valuable than products. Learn all of the skills that you can, now, so that there will be less of a learning curve when it really matters.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle & Jezcruzen,
Excellent points, having one or more persons with some diverse skills is imperitive in a survival situation. There is a heck of a lot more to it than just raising chickens and growing a garden.

oldvet


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Long ago, before I came up with a new product and started my own company, I used to be a engine lathe machinest........now I own a new one that is sitting in the garage and waiting to go into action, I can only hope that I never will have to use it because that would mean that I never ran out of anything and therefore there was no need for me to work..........but........I have it as part of "my plan, behind the plan, behind the plan", so many different things will happen that I try to get ready for all.

"Be ready for all and afraid of none"... Ponce

Remember this and think about it.....the really rich will always be rich so that you should come up with something that they will get from you, let it be goods or services........why worry about selling one item for one dollar to ten people when you can sell one item for twelve dollars to one person?

Remember that .....to know something and do nothing about it is worse than knowing nothing.......if you think of something, in order to get ready for what is to come, then do something about it.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

:congrat:


Jezcruzen said:


> Keep in mind that including barter items in you inventory is only to get you started. Having those items will buy you a little time on the front end, but you really need to know how to make, produce, manufacture products that people will need and want. Whether its furniture or hooch, you should plan now for some niche that will help carry you for the long haul.


Jezcruzen: Yep.

oldvet


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I just had a thought about the possibility of laying in some last minute items. 

If you have a Wal-Mart or Sam's card or something like it and were lucky enough to realize that the SHTF date was only one or two days away, then I would suggest maxing out any cards that you have with needed goods and trade goods to suppliment what you have allready prepped for. 

When the economy is totally in the tank the last thing I am going to worry about is paying off credit cards, they will more than likely be shut down within a day or two after the "tank" and it would be very doubtfull that they would ever be back in buisness.

If we are very lucky that just might work.

Of course you should absolutely continue to keep getting "your fecal matter grouped" and keep on prepping.

oldvet


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

ashley8072 said:


> So I see a lot that tobacco and alcohol will be great barter items. I was thinking about purchasing some of these items soon, but not sure where to even start. As an occassional smoker myself, I've got my supply. I was leaning towards maybe picking up some of the canisters of tobacco for trade. Their cheap here, I think about 10 bucks a canister. So I thought maybe 6 cans of different flavors. Most already come with papers and rollers, which would help in any trade. I also thought about getting a couple pounds of pipe tobacco, but keeping it fresh without the fancy boxes could be difficult. How much do you keep in supply?
> 
> As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints.
> 
> What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


I have been stocking 1/2 pints of vodka, gin, whiskey, bourbon and scotch. I picked the 1/2 pint size for bartering purposes. Not enough to cause too much trouble but enough to be of value. Every two weeks I go to a liquor store and buy a small case of 12 of two types. The owner pulled me aside one day, assuming I was the consumer, and attempted to get me to purchase the "economy" size. Trying to not let on to the intended use I thanked him but said it was easier to hide from the wife.

There is a higher initial cost to buy the small sizes but storage and ability to trade at a later date is my primary concern. For wines I store some of the small wines that I buy for a buck a bottle. I keep these on the boat. When we have guests I do not feel guilty about opening a 750 ml bottle to serve a guest a glass of wine. Although the wine is not great I have never had anyone on the boat refuse a wine. I keep about 50 or so bottles in my preps and rotate them to the boat to keep them fresh. Cheap wines do not have a long shelf life.

I keep several pounds of tobacco in my preps. Several of the 1 lb bags have been divided into 2 oz packages, vac sealed and placed in the freezer. I take these on the boat often. Even two years old they are still fresh enough to smoke. Keep several boxes of filter tubes and a packing machine and barter "home rolled". I only stock the normal tobacco. When a dedicated smoker is out of smokes they are not too fussy.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

tugboats said:


> I have been stocking 1/2 pints of vodka, gin, whiskey, bourbon and scotch. I picked the 1/2 pint size for bartering purposes. Not enough to cause too much trouble but enough to be of value. Every two weeks I go to a liquor store and buy a small case of 12 of two types. The owner pulled me aside one day, assuming I was the consumer, and attempted to get me to purchase the "economy" size. Trying to not let on to the intended use I thanked him but said it was easier to hide from the wife.
> 
> There is a higher initial cost to buy the small sizes but storage and ability to trade at a later date is my primary concern. For wines I store some of the small wines that I buy for a buck a bottle. I keep these on the boat. When we have guests I do not feel guilty about opening a 750 ml bottle to serve a guest a glass of wine. Although the wine is not great I have never had anyone on the boat refuse a wine. I keep about 50 or so bottles in my preps and rotate them to the boat to keep them fresh. Cheap wines do not have a long shelf life.
> 
> I keep several pounds of tobacco in my preps. Several of the 1 lb bags have been divided into 2 oz packages, vac sealed and placed in the freezer. I take these on the boat often. Even two years old they are still fresh enough to smoke. Keep several boxes of filter tubes and a packing machine and barter "home rolled". I only stock the normal tobacco. When a dedicated smoker is out of smokes they are not too fussy.


tugboats:

Thanks, that is an excelent point on getting the 1/2 pint bottles of liquor, I hadn't thought about that being an excellent size for barter. I also like the idea of dividing the tobacco into a two ounce size. How long do you think the tobacco will remain good after it is vac sealed?

Is there anyone out there that knows how long coffee will stay drinkable if it is vac sealed, also is it better to buy the beans or ground coffee? which will last longer?

oldvet


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

oldvet said:


> tugboats:
> 
> Thanks, that is an excelent point on getting the 1/2 pint bottles of liquor, I hadn't thought about that being an excellent size for barter. I also like the idea of dividing the tobacco into a two ounce size. How long do you think the tobacco will remain good after it is vac sealed?
> 
> ...


I have used pouches of tobacco that have been vac. sealed and in the freezer that are two years old, give or take a month, and they smoke just fine. I put them up in two ounce bags for simplicity. I am using unflavored "pipe" tobacco (1/2 price) and other than being longer cut it smokes just fine. I just rolled two smokes, one two years old and the other from a fresh bag. The one that was two years old was fine, just a little harsher in taste. Nothing objectionable just perceptible. If I did not have the new bag to compare it to I would not have noticed any deficiency.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

On the subject of coffee -beans will hold their flavor much better than pre-ground coffee-Just last year I found a small mason jar of vacuum packed coffee beans that I had been given as a gift for the holidays and it was marked from 07'. The vacuum had held and we ground and drank the coffee and it turned out really nice considering the age of the beans. But that was the longest that I've ever held coffee cuz normally we drink it too fast.. But it was really good coffee from Hawaii that my Mother got us.. So if possible start out with the good stuff-cuz cheap coffee is still gonna just be ok.
I also have loose tea that has been vacpacked in small amounts and I've opened them and they taste fine too. It is very strong English tea.. that way I can use smaller amounts mixed with the mints and herbs from my garden to make it last longer.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

*Don't "borrow" trouble from tomorrow!*



oldvet said:


> If you have a Wal-Mart or Sam's card or something like it and were lucky enough to realize that the SHTF date was only one or two days away, then I would suggest maxing out any cards that you have with needed goods and trade goods to suppliment what you have allready prepped for.
> 
> When the economy is totally in the tank the last thing I am going to worry about is paying off credit cards, they will more than likely be shut down within a day or two after the "tank" and it would be very doubtfull that they would ever be back in buisness.
> oldvet


The problem with this thinking is that you "think" the SHTF and max out credit cards, then...uh oh! life goes on! Credit card bill is in the mail, and you're stuck trying to pay it!

Instead, I recommend staying within your budget, if anything, start cutting out things you CAN do without now: HBO, McMeals, A/C, this list could go on and on...and spend more on preps. I would not do anything today that you can't responsibly do. Don't "borrow" trouble from tomorrow!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Folks,
Thanks for all of the input, ya'll just made up my mind about vac sealing and storing tobacco and coffee.

SageAdvicefarmgirl: True dat! 

It would just be my luck to be stuck paying off thousands of dollars worth of goods.:gaah: I guess that it was a pretty lame idea at that.:surrender:

You are also correct in that we can do without quite a few things, while in fact getting used to not having a lot of the luxuries that you would not have in a SHTF situation, and putting the extra money toward prepping.


Thanks again,
oldvet


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

ashley8072 said:


> As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints.
> 
> What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


One thing to consider when buying alcohol items is the shelf life. Some types of alcohol will hold up well for long term storage and others won't be as good after a couple of years.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Bad Idea*



ashley8072 said:


> So I see a lot that tobacco and alcohol will be great barter items. I was thinking about purchasing some of these items soon, but not sure where to even start. As an occassional smoker myself, I've got my supply. I was leaning towards maybe picking up some of the canisters of tobacco for trade. Their cheap here, I think about 10 bucks a canister. So I thought maybe 6 cans of different flavors. Most already come with papers and rollers, which would help in any trade. I also thought about getting a couple pounds of pipe tobacco, but keeping it fresh without the fancy boxes could be difficult. How much do you keep in supply?
> 
> As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints.
> 
> What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


Ever hear of a law against Bootlegging?

How about transporting alcohol for the purpose of resale ?

You guys are worried about the Fed's taking your stuff, why give them a legal reason ?

Did you ever hear of a law called "Conspiring to commit a felony"?

As long as you are just stocking your own storage lockers, that isn't against the law. When you openly discuss preperations to begin an illegal business, that just isn't smart !

:ignore:


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Elinor0987 said:


> One thing to consider when buying alcohol items is the shelf life. Some types of alcohol will hold up well for long term storage and others won't be as good after a couple of years.


:scratch Other than Bailey's (or a similar cream-based liqueur) I can't think of a single type of booze that has a very limited shelf-life. Most get better with age.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

BillM said:


> Ever hear of a law against Bootlegging?
> 
> How about transporting alcohol for the purpose of resale ?
> 
> ...


I'd say that unless you decide to start early and start trading booze before TSHTF-scenarios come in to play, you would probably be fine. It would be very difficult to prove _beyond a reasonable doubt_ that anyone was trying to set up a trade outpost in their basement, if no transactions were being made. The BATFE and state agencies set up observation for months, sometimes years at a time to try to find enough evidence to try to convict someone of even _one_ of those charges.

Think of it this way: What D.A. is going to stand in front of a judge and say, "Your Honor, this person has a stockpile of alcohol in their basement which they plan to trade for toilet paper after the end of the world."?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

BillM said:


> Ever hear of a law against Bootlegging?
> 
> How about transporting alcohol for the purpose of resale ?
> 
> ...


Yup. However I believe most of the activities you refer to were intended to be entrepenuerial endeavors after a total SHTF situation, and not in the face of existing laws before TSHTF. I'm sure no one on this forum intends to break these laws, as long as the laws exist; and while we plan and prep for the possibility, we hope the S never HTF to that extent.

Thanks for the reminder.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

Turtle said:


> :scratch Other than Bailey's (or a similar cream-based liqueur) I can't think of a single type of booze that has a very limited shelf-life. Most get better with age.


Some varieties of wine are made for immediate consumption where others are made to be aged. I can't find the article I read a while back about aging wine but did find a few others:

Aging of wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

How Long to Age Wine

I'm not sure how accurate the information is, but I do know that some wines will be bitter right after production and require aging to mellow out the flavor and make it suitable for drinking. Others will get bitter if you wait too long to drink it. Most (if not all) of the hard liquors are suitable for long term storage if kept in ideal conditions.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Assume*



Turtle said:


> I'd say that unless you decide to start early and start trading booze before TSHTF-scenarios come in to play, you would probably be fine. It would be very difficult to prove _beyond a reasonable doubt_ that anyone was trying to set up a trade outpost in their basement, if no transactions were being made. The BATFE and state agencies set up observation for months, sometimes years at a time to try to find enough evidence to try to convict someone of even _one_ of those charges.
> 
> Think of it this way: What D.A. is going to stand in front of a judge and say, "Your Honor, this person has a stockpile of alcohol in their basement which they plan to trade for toilet paper after the end of the world."?


Assume that anyone can read your posts. The ATF can also read your posts.

If someone says I am stocking up on alcohol in half pints to sell at a future date for any reason, they can use the post to get an IP address and they can bust you on your next trip from the liquer store for transporting for the purpose of resale.

Try explaining to a jury that you were just preparing to go in business when it became legal because of anarchy.

Ohh wait, since it is unlikely that the law will ever be changed, it would still be illegal even after TSHTF, so that excuse would not help you now.

I understand that you expect the law to be unenforcable at some future date but that will not help you now.

I intend to stay on the down low . To do this is hard enough without engageing in activity that a huge goverment agency is already monitoring and prosicuting people for on a dailey basis.

When the ATF gets a liquer store in violation, they don't necisarly swoop down and put them out of business. They might just ask them to report anyone they think is buying for resale. For instance, anyone buying large amounts of alcohol or cases of half pints.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here , but I was a deputy shreiff in a dry county and I have personally arrested people on car stops for "Transporting alcohol for the purpose of resale " and we got convictions on less evidence than some have provided on this thread alone !


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

Elinor0987 said:


> Some varieties of wine are made for immediate consumption where others are made to be aged. I can't find the article I read a while back about aging wine but did find a few others:
> 
> Aging of wine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> ...


Okay,yeah, wines are a different beast altogether. Some wines are meant to be drank young and will not improve not matter how long they sit. Others are meant to be held for several years to reach full maturity. But I think we have already established that wines would not be good for trading purposes.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

"I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here , but I was a deputy shreiff in a dry county and I have personally arrested people on car stops for "Transporting alcohol for the purpose of resale " and we got convictions on less evidence than some have provided on this thread alone !"

Considering you worked in Kentucky where state troopers currently stop out of state vehicles west-bound on I 40 and shaking the occupants down for their cash, calling it "drug money", having got any convictions on less evidence doesn't surprise me any.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I just got a frickin bill from the state of MD saying I owe them $1000 for the cigs I bought online over a year ago before the site went belly up. Apparently even if I drive to another state to buy them, I am supposed to 'volunteer' to pay the taxes on each pack. $2 per.
Bastards!
I would check your states fascism levels before you go off stockpilin!

:gaah:


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

Turtle said:


> But I think we have already established that wines would not be good for trading purposes.


Perhaps, but my comment about shelf life was in response to the post about the OP's case of wine. One of the things I want to do when I buy a house is make my own homemade wine and section off a part of the basement to make a wine cellar. I'm trying to learn as much as I can ahead of time and reading the articles is how I found out about their shelf life. Prior to that I assumed that all wines could be stored for many years.


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## KittyCat (Dec 1, 2010)

Turtle said:


> I don't know that I would waste my time/money with Boones Farm, or really, wine in general. Wine is pretty easy to make, and I would imagine that people will start cranking it out pretty quickly in the case of a complete loss of infrastructure.
> 
> Liquor will be much harder to find (immediately, until stills get set up and people figure out what they are doing) and as such, will have more trade value.
> 
> ...


What about 190 proof Everclear? I can see multiple uses for this stuff besides trading and drinking. For example, as an antiseptic, a fire starter, alcohol lamp fuel, incendiary uses in defense of self or property, preservative, or possible temporary fuel for a motor (?). Your opinion please


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I stock Everclear in my supplies, the ½ gallon bottles. As you pointed out is has many purposes, currently I only use it for making medicinal tinctures. I can remember (barely though) infusing a bottle into a watermelon and partaking in the summer sun. It couldn’t hurt for folks to keep at least a pint around for emergencies.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Woody said:


> I stock Everclear in my supplies, the ½ gallon bottles. As you pointed out is has many purposes, currently I only use it for making medicinal tinctures. I can remember (barely though) infusing a bottle into a watermelon and partaking in the summer sun. It couldn't hurt for folks to keep at least a pint around for emergencies.


I have started stocking 1/2 pints of Everclear and Jim Beam, the Everclear has as was said many uses (including barter item) and the Jim Beam is a fairly inexpensive barter whisky and most folks recognize the brand name.

DM


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## SwampRat (May 31, 2010)

*Booze*

I make my own wine and whiskey. Whiskey is EASY to make. Check out Milehigh distilling's website. GREAT stills and easy to use. I make my own E85, use it as firestarter, and "other uses"....

As for wine, its easy to make yourself with minimal investment. I am stockpiling sugar just for brewing and trading!

I travel to a nearby state for smokes. Less taxes and I save 40% over my state, well worth the trip!


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

SwampRat said:


> I make my own wine and whiskey. Whiskey is EASY to make.


Yes, making whiskey is easy. Making sipping whiskey is an art.

:beercheer:


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## Frugal_Farmers (Dec 13, 2010)

My personal thought on this subject is that trading and bartering is not on the top of my list of preps.

Although we are in good shape as far as preps goes, we still have lot's of things on our list to round out our prepping efforts. We are cash and carry folks and will not take debt to finish our preps. I know we will never FINISH our preps because everyday we add something else to the list.

Perhaps once we "finish" our prepping list, then we might consider trade and barter items.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Frugal_Farmers said:


> My personal thought on this subject is that trading and bartering is not on the top of my list of preps.
> 
> Although we are in good shape as far as preps goes, we still have lot's of things on our list to round out our prepping efforts. We are cash and carry folks and will not take debt to finish our preps. I know we will never FINISH our preps because everyday we add something else to the list.
> 
> Perhaps once we "finish" our prepping list, then we might consider trade and barter items.


I can totally understand your position, we each have our own priorities and that is as it should be.

Hey maybe that's why there is Vanilla and chocolate.  Choices? Man who woulda thunk it. 

DM


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## KittyCat (Dec 1, 2010)

Immolatus said:


> I just got a frickin bill from the state of MD saying I owe them $1000 for the cigs I bought online over a year ago before the site went belly up. Apparently even if I drive to another state to buy them, I am supposed to 'volunteer' to pay the taxes on each pack. $2 per.
> Bastards!
> I would check your states fascism levels before you go off stockpilin!
> 
> :gaah:


FYI: In California US Customs shares information with the CA Board of Equalization (sales tax ) in order to collect their due. Here's how it works. An individual (not a retailer with a resale license - they are not the end purchaser and are exempt until the good is sold. They then forward the collected tax to the Board) will import an item and pay customs tax, The information is shared and the individual is sent a notice of sales tax due..


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## SwampRat (May 31, 2010)

Woody said:


> Yes, making whiskey is easy. Making sipping whiskey is an art.
> 
> :beercheer:


VERY true! Getting close....


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

ashley8072 said:


> So I see a lot that tobacco and alcohol will be great barter items. I was thinking about purchasing some of these items soon, but not sure where to even start. As an occassional smoker myself, I've got my supply. I was leaning towards maybe picking up some of the canisters of tobacco for trade. Their cheap here, I think about 10 bucks a canister. So I thought maybe 6 cans of different flavors. Most already come with papers and rollers, which would help in any trade. I also thought about getting a couple pounds of pipe tobacco, but keeping it fresh without the fancy boxes could be difficult. How much do you keep in supply?
> 
> As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints.
> 
> What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


I make it when I need it. Just having a supply of fermentables is key.As for tobacco, grow it.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> I just got a frickin bill from the state of MD saying I owe them $1000 for the cigs I bought online over a year ago before the site went belly up. Apparently even if I drive to another state to buy them, I am supposed to 'volunteer' to pay the taxes on each pack. $2 per.
> Bastards!
> I would check your states fascism levels before you go off stockpilin!
> 
> :gaah:


Never buy those kind of things online. Too much of a paper trail. Cash and carry.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Emerald said:


> I've thought about checking one of the big wedding venue places here to see if they would save the champagne bottles and wine bottles but the gas prices are a bit too steep to run and get them every Sunday. I don't mind the gallon jugs but that is a bit of drinking to do at one sitting so most of the time I only take it to big family events.. My wine tends to be a tad "high octane" too... gotta work on that... lol. I buy a couple different types of wine yeasts.. one is a champagne type. one of the ones I like the best makes a high alcohol content yet also retains a really nice fruity/floral flavor. Lavlin LC-1118. I want to start brewing beer this year as I am getting quite a few hops on my bines.
> I heard that bread yeasts do better with beers if you run out of other yeasts. as most beer is yeasty anyhoo.


I use the EC 1118 too for wine. It's the "Mack Truck" of wine yeasts. If you step feed it it will get you to about 18% ABV. As for bread yeast, I've used it to make mead with some success. I brew beer too. Ales are easier to brew than lagers as the temperatures can be warmer with the ale yeast. Built a mash tun and loitering tank from some coolers and ball valves. Best investment ever. (If you like beer that is)


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

On the last Doomsday preppers the one fella was buying large quantities of alcohol and mentioned ON TV that he was going to use it for barter.. Many states will consider this to be "reselling" and if you don't have a liqueur license it can really put the hurt on ya AFT will come a knocking! .. just wondering if anyone else thought about that episode?


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Emerald said:


> On the last Doomsday preppers the one fella was buying large quantities of alcohol and mentioned ON TV that he was going to use it for barter.. Many states will consider this to be "reselling" and if you don't have a liqueur license it can really put the hurt on ya AFT will come a knocking! .. just wondering if anyone else thought about that episode?


You make a great point however he never said how he was going to use in in barter. He could have just intended to GIVE the spirits away to get the other party drunk so they would make more favorable trades. Thats what I would tell the ATF if they showed up. Besides, you cant (shouldnt) get in trouble for something you didnt do (sell). I suppose they could say 'intent to sell'.. still.


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## SwampRat (May 31, 2010)

I think shows like "Dommsday Preppers" and Moonshiners"....et al are all pure BS.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

SwampRat said:


> I think shows like "Dommsday Preppers" and Moonshiners"....et al are all pure BS.


Well Doh' of course they are out there for ratings but these are real folks who are being screwed by nat geo..
please remember to read both threads here about the doomsday preppers and the fact that two of them are members here and have responded to our threads..


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Transporting alcohol*

In Ky we used to charge the Bootlegger with "Transporting Alcohol for the purpose of resale"

You couldn't catch em selling it but you could catch em transporting it.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

ContinualHarvest said:


> As for tobacco, grow it.


Or buy in bulk and roll your own. Left in the original, sealed bag and stored in a cool, dry place, it will stay fresh for years. And it will only cost about $7.00 a carton. I've been doing it for 4 years now.


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## SwampRat (May 31, 2010)

Emerald said:


> Well Doh' of course they are out there for ratings but these are real folks who are being screwed by nat geo..
> please remember to read both threads here about the doomsday preppers and the fact that two of them are members here and have responded to our threads..


I think it's not smart to show your preps on TV. Most of these people are actors anyway.....IF you want to be on TV and you get busted (like one of them just did!) then you get what you asked for when crawling into bed with the Liberal media.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

SwampRat said:


> I think it's not smart to show your preps on TV. Most of these people are actors anyway.....IF you want to be on TV and you get busted (like one of them just did!) then you get what you asked for when crawling into bed with the Liberal media.


These people are not actors. and it is totally apparent that you did not bother to read any of what is written here and other interviews with these folks.. Must suck to have to live like that.. all that paranoia and negativity.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

So I went ahead and picked up some store bought tobacco and have gathered the supplies for making my own wine (easy since grandpa makes his own since he was like 16). Along some other investments in this area. I'm still lacking growing tobacco knowledge and time is creeping faster than usual for me to reach my goal before the new year. Ive picked up a few of each, Rum, whiskey and vodka for ourselves and barter in different sizes. Store bought stuff will be Good as a quick heads up for barter before moonshiners start coming out of the woodwork. I left tobacco sealed in orig packing and added to some things like matches and filter tips.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

I put away a ton of miniatures. Vodka, Crown, Jack Daniels, Capt Morgan, some Brandy, etc


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## hillobeans (May 17, 2012)

ashley8072 said:


> So I went ahead and picked up some store bought tobacco and have gathered the supplies for making my own wine (easy since grandpa makes his own since he was like 16). Along some other investments in this area. I'm still lacking growing tobacco knowledge and time is creeping faster than usual for me to reach my goal before the new year. Ive picked up a few of each, Rum, whiskey and vodka for ourselves and barter in different sizes. Store bought stuff will be Good as a quick heads up for barter before moonshiners start coming out of the woodwork. I left tobacco sealed in orig packing and added to some things like matches and filter tips.


I'm not sure that storing Top tobacco is the best choice. It's already dried out when you buy it- I can't imagine what it'll be like in a couple of years. Drum tobacco (or American Spirit, although I don't know if the lack of chemicals would help or hurt it's longevity) might work out a little better, although it is more expensive.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

hillobeans said:


> I'm not sure that storing Top tobacco is the best choice. It's already dried out when you buy it- I can't imagine what it'll be like in a couple of years. Drum tobacco (or American Spirit, although I don't know if the lack of chemicals would help or hurt it's longevity) might work out a little better, although it is more expensive.


I've actually smoked some Top that was nearly a year old. It had been pushed behind a dresser from DH cousin when he stayed with us. It tasted fine (as cheap tobacco goes. Lol!), and it was opened and the bag was only rolled up. I was thinking about getting it in canister, if I were wanting to barter for larger items. But the local canisters here are like cardboard. So I'm not sure they would last longer or not. Whereas buying it in the bags, I didn't open the original package that the tobacco bag is in. I got 2 dif brands of tobacco and then them in menthol and regular. I also picked up some pipe tobacco and sealed the same way. But, these are all just for trade. I'm hoping to pick up some chewing tobacco soon.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

If your roling tobbacco dries out gets too crispy and burns too hot for you you can re moisten it. I have used smallish patches of paper towels moistened and placed in a plastic bag with the tobaccy. My favorite ways to refresh it though is with a small section of apple or orange peel. Maybe a 1x1inch patch depends on quantity and how dry it is. have to kinda experiment with it and if it gets too moist in one spot pull out your peel and move it or shake the tobbacco around and let it set a lil while the moisture will even out in the package. I smoke so I have some tobacco stored gonna try one more time next summer to grow some in a couple of buckets or half barrels. Gotta get the seed first. Alcohol is still not in my storage but I do need to put priority on a gallor or two of each vodka and everclear just for tincturing with the medical herbs I bought seeds to try growing next year. Be a long while before I have money to store any extra for my own use or to barter.


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## mma800 (May 7, 2012)

Great idea! I have the vodka etc, but never thought to get tobacco! As a former smoker, I cannot have cigarettes around, but loose tobacco would be fine.
As for long term storage....what do you suggest? Vacuum ? Mylar? Freezer?


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

*Hey, Ashley...*



ashley8072 said:


> I've actually smoked some Top that was nearly a year old. It had been pushed behind a dresser from DH cousin when he stayed with us. It tasted fine (as cheap tobacco goes. Lol!), and it was opened and the bag was only rolled up. I was thinking about getting it in canister, if I were wanting to barter for larger items. But the local canisters here are like cardboard. So I'm not sure they would last longer or not. Whereas buying it in the bags, I didn't open the original package that the tobacco bag is in. I got 2 dif brands of tobacco and then them in menthol and regular. I also picked up some pipe tobacco and sealed the same way. But, these are all just for trade. I'm hoping to pick up some chewing tobacco soon.


If you're still on the fence about growing & storing your own, look up some of my other post by clicking over there on the upper left of this post on my name, "PAWPAW". For a while, we were going nuts with this subject (with photos), and we even sent some harvested seeds to dozens on this site. Oklahoma soil is bound to be better than this Florida sand-mix, so you've no reason not to!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

mma800 said:


> As for long term storage....what do you suggest? Vacuum ? Mylar? Freezer?


For me, it's none of the above.

I've got my supply to the point where I am always using at least 1 year old tobacco. It's stored in the basement in plastic totes still in the original 1lb packaging. Still as fresh and moist as if it were new.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

ashley8072 said:


> So I see a lot that tobacco and alcohol will be great barter items. I was thinking about purchasing some of these items soon, but not sure where to even start. As an occassional smoker myself, I've got my supply. I was leaning towards maybe picking up some of the canisters of tobacco for trade. Their cheap here, I think about 10 bucks a canister. So I thought maybe 6 cans of different flavors. Most already come with papers and rollers, which would help in any trade. I also thought about getting a couple pounds of pipe tobacco, but keeping it fresh without the fancy boxes could be difficult. How much do you keep in supply?
> 
> As far as alcohol goes, I picked up a case of 12 cheap Boone's Farm flavored wine. On spirits: Besides drinking, alcohol has many uses already. What I'm not sure about is how to buy it. Maybe by the gallons (which is cheaper), or something a bit more compact by pints.
> 
> What are yalls views on stocking these? I'm shooting for a year supply.


Regarding pipe tobacco. I'm a dedicated pipe tobacco smoker, and this is a proved way to preserve pipe tobacco for years and years.

Clean mason jar, microwave with water for about a minute, to heat the jar itself up. Dump the water out, put the tobacco in, and put a clean (simmered in hot water) lid on. Secure the ring. The cooling air should create a vacuum in the jar, pulling the pop-top of the lid down.

I have 30 pounds of pipe tobacco stored this way, and this tobacco will stay fresh for many years. In fact, most get better with age, except the "flavored" type. Half and Half, Carter Hall, will stay good for 25 years, no problem.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

WWhermit said:


> Regarding pipe tobacco. I'm a dedicated pipe tobacco smoker, and this is a proved way to preserve pipe tobacco for years and years.
> 
> Clean mason jar, microwave with water for about a minute, to heat the jar itself up. Dump the water out, put the tobacco in, and put a clean (simmered in hot water) lid on. Secure the ring. The cooling air should create a vacuum in the jar, pulling the pop-top of the lid down.
> 
> I have 30 pounds of pipe tobacco stored this way, and this tobacco will stay fresh for many years. In fact, most get better with age, except the "flavored" type. Half and Half, Carter Hall, will stay good for 25 years, no problem.


Would just vacuum sealing it in the jar work, or do I need the moisture in it?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

UncleJoe said:


> For me, it's none of the above.
> 
> I've got my supply to the point where I am always using at least 1 year old tobacco. It's stored in the basement in plastic totes still in the original 1lb packaging. Still as fresh and moist as if it were new.


I'm the same (minus the plastic totes) only have a two year rotation in store bought 1# packages. No issues and the slice of apple trick works like a charm.

Tubes come 50 cartons to a case and tobacco is 24 pounds to a case, just as an FYI. Makes storage easier for me and when one case gets opened I order a replacement and it fits right back on the shelf in the empty spot.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

ashley8072 said:


> Would just vacuum sealing it in the jar work, or do I need the moisture in it?


The hot water is actually for 2 purposes. 1, to make sure the jar is sterile. If it is not, you'll find the tobacco infested with mold within a few months. The second purpose is to heat up the glass, so that the vacuum will be created when the glass, and air inside cools. It is not for moisture.

What I do is microwave the jar with water, dump and shake the water out (a few drops left inside is fine), stuff the tobacco in, leave about 1/2 inch from the top, because the tobacco needs some air, and then I use the mason jar attachment on my foodsaver to seal.

Like I said, the tobacco will last for years and years. I've seen 30 year old tobacco go for $400 on a tobacco auction site, and people were happy to pay it. Natural tobacco gets better with age, much like good wine. Just get natural pipe tobacco...Prince Albert, Carter Hall, Middleton's Walnut, etc. The cherry and whiskey stuff will go rancid due to the added flavoring.


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## TNFrank (Dec 2, 2012)

Don't forget coffee. More people drink it then do alcohol. You can stock up on a few of the bricks of store brand from WalMart or the like and it'll be worth it's weight in gold if the SHTF.


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## ashley8072 (Apr 26, 2011)

This is great info guys! Thanks so much. I'm looking forward to buying next week without hesitation. I got out my ol pipe and tobacco this evening and the tobacco was all dried up, but its been about 2 years since I even smoked out of my pipe. Pretty much used it til it was well seasoned and put it away. Lol!

Coffee was one of the first things I picked up when I started bulk prepping. However, I do need to jar some up into smaller portions. I do believe that coffee will be a much needed barter if not available so easily. Since I'm the only coffee drinker in e house, it's pretty easy to keep it in stock with little rotation.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

ashley8072 said:


> Would just vacuum sealing it in the jar work, or do I need the moisture in it?


I vacuum packed a pound a few years ago to conserve space. I opened it about 6 months later and it was terribly dry. I did the apple thing and it did work but I don't do it anymore. It seems to keep very well in the original bag.



Woody said:


> Tubes come 50 cartons to a case and tobacco is 24 pounds to a case, just as an FYI. Makes storage easier for me and when one case gets opened I order a replacement and it fits right back on the shelf in the empty spot.


Yep. That's the way I do it. Right now I have 2 cases of tubes and 1.5 cases of tobacco. When it drops to 1 full case, I'll order another.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> I vacuum packed a pound a few years ago to conserve space. I opened it about 6 months later and it was terribly dry. I did the apple thing and it did work but I don't do it anymore. It seems to keep very well in the original bag.


Unclejoe, what did you vacuum pack your tobacco in? If it was an airtight container, no moisture should have gotten out. I've had tobacco that's been sealed up for 15 years, and when it was opened up, it was still the perfect 28-30% humidity level that pipe tobacco should be.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Yep turtle*



Turtle said:


> The problem with that is that if it is not in an original, sealed container, you have no idea what you are getting. I personally wouldn't trade for any booze that wasn't in it's original sealed container, because you will have unscrupulous types cutting their vodka with water, or worse, rubbing alcohol or turpentine. There are a lot of dangers that go along with bootlegging; it's the origin of the "pimp walk" that you see kids emulating without even knowing the origin. Poor blacks in the south often drank moonshine that had been cut with other chemicals to make it stronger and cheaper; this would cause nerve damage and make them limp.
> 
> Unless I was trading with someone whom I well knew, I would not take the chance of drinking unknown liquor.


That was ginger Jake that they cut moon shine with that gave the resulting limp the name "The Jake Leg.

While we are on the subject, is it now a chargable offence to conspire to sell untaxed alcohol without a license.

The ATF or the State could conciveably use evidence obtained on open forums such as this to obtain search warrants and raid conficate and arrest preppers for conspiring to sell alcohol.

I know this is all for future senerios wherein the goverment no longer exists or is too busy to care but what about right now?

I have a LE background and I know you do also. I am retired now and I do not care but there are a lot of guys who are still OTJ that do!

I would advise that this be kept on the down low if you are planning to do this !

:beercheer:


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

WWhermit said:


> Unclejoe, what did you vacuum pack your tobacco in? If it was an airtight container, no moisture should have gotten out. I've had tobacco that's been sealed up for 15 years, and when it was opened up, it was still the perfect 28-30% humidity level that pipe tobacco should be.


I used our Food Saver and the heavy duty bags that come with it. I don't believe they leaked. I just figured that the moisture was drawn out with the air. :dunno:


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## neworchard18 (Nov 28, 2012)

I have not given much thought to barter items other than food. I like the tobacco idea. Easy to keep and store. I don't think I would bother with alcohol. It might not be so bad to barter alcohol with people that are far away but I sure don't want to encourage any drunks close to home.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> I used our Food Saver and the heavy duty bags that come with it. I don't believe they leaked. I just figured that the moisture was drawn out with the air. :dunno:


I've had bags, even the heavy duty foodsaver bags, fail with tobacco myself. I cringe when I hear people investing hundreds of dollars on that "hard to get must have vintage tobacco", then stick it in a bag. I used to do the same thing, until I opened one and it was nothing but dust.

The bags are the problem. For some reason, over time, and we're talking it takes a year or more, those bags will inevitably fail. Especially if your tobacco, or whatever it is, has a semi-sharp edge that will wear a nice little hole. I'll only use mason jars for this purpose now. Nice, strong glass, non-permeable membrane, and I also check my mason jars full of tobacco every few months by pushing on the little button. Only had one lose it's seal, and it was by my carelessness and leaving a bit of tobacco on the top of the jar before sealing.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

My wife is from Europe. They have an alcohol there called "Spiritus." It's 190 proof alcohol. They use 1 bottle to make 3 bottles of vodka. We have the same thing here, but it's called Everclear. This is what I'll be storing. Everclear is also used in food labs, because it's a great food-grade sterile cleaner. My thinking is that it'd be great as a sterilizer, anti-septic, wound cleaner, and for a barter item, you can make 3 bottles of hard alcohol to trade. Plus 190 proof alcohol will take the edge and stress off of just about anything!

Incidentally, there are 2 types of everclear. 151 proof, and 190 proof. Some states can't sell the higher proof stuff, so take that into account when shopping.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I don't think I'd stockup on the gallon sized bottles. I'd go for the little travel sized that they have in hotel fridges. That way, you can trade for something and the person won't get wasted on one shot of booze. 

I'm also thinking of stocking some margarita mix. Nothing hits the spot for me like a margarita baby!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> They'll make stills. Btw, I've heard a pressure canner can be used, somehow, for a whiskey still, but I don't know how that works.


Whiskey is just vodka aged in charred-oak barrels.

The pressure canners that work best are the ones that have the pressure gauge screwed into the center of the lid. You unscrew the gauge and thread a "close nipple" into the hole with a reducer bushing that takes the threads up a couple sizes larger. Even better (and FAR safer) is to drill the hole larger and tap with larger threads.

Add a threaded pipe "T" turned sideways, the gauge goes into the side of the "T" and the copper tubing attaches to the top. Bigger is better on the fittings.... any restriction here means the risk of blowing the still, but you are a complete idiot if you leave this thing unattended and are asking to have your head taken off. 1/2" copper tubing is the bare minimum.


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