# Your never safe



## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

I have been prepairing for a long time. I have also just started again. You need to protect your supplies and equipment. My wife and I lost over 20 years of preparation to kids with a gas can, it could just as easily been a natural disaster. Since we are out in the country, it was a total loss. That loss included 2 4X4's, food for my wife and I and our un prepaired extended family for over a year, firearms and reloading supplies (at current prices and limited supply that really hurts) and all the tools and equipment we accumulated over the years that made us very self sufficient (full machine and wood shop). 

You are not safe in a normal structure. We are rebuilding, the shop is now concrete and steel, the house is still stick framed but we will be adding a concrete detached storm cellar for long term supplies. I know that the cellar is not realistic for most, but you need to do something to protect your supplies. I considered a strong room in our basement, but it still might burn. I also considered buring it in small containers, did not like the limited access that offered. Storage in the basement (as we are now) is only sligthly better than no storage, it needs to be protected if possible.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Holy cow. That's awful. Did they catch the kids who did it?


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

There is a disconnect with today's youth, lack of apathy for the human condition. Story after story of kid's watching someone being beaten,robed,raped,murdered and it's o well glad it's not me, people can blame tv,games,sport's it does not matter the lack of respect for their fellow man or woman is a fact and it's here.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

No, I was told by the deputy that arson is a low priroty crime. They made a minor effort until my insurance company got mad and then it was to late, everything had washed way. But it did not prevent them from investigating us for the crime. 

I know it was city kids, all they had to do to get past my gate was lift it off the post. They unbolted the hinge, real stupid. 

Again, you need to protect from stupid. If you have several thousand dollars in food and supplies. I have seen small concrete storm shealters for sell for that price. If you are handy and don't mind working you can build your own for less.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Welcome to the forum Longtime:wave:, it just takes time and labor to build your own shelter, that's what I'm doing. A little at a time, mine is under an existing slab so I have to haul out the waste soil one 5gal bucket at a time after jackhammering loose. I know building supplies have gone up, but if you look around you can find deals, even mix your own concrete instead of buying redi-crete bags. I use to be nearer the city and had a friend who worked at a concrete yard, he would call me when they had left over concrete in trucks and needed to clean them out, I had the forms ready for this all the time. Pick up used lumber from construction sites like I did along with what was left from our house construction. Construction sites will be glad to give away cut offs and concrete forms after they are done usually. You would not be surprised how wasteful some contractors are. Good luck on your project.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks,

I learned to late to protect myself. I just wanted to make sure people know what can happen. While you can always lose, it's smart to protect yourself from what you can. A hidden concrete structure should stop all but the most extreme.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

Sorry to hear about your misfortune Longtime. Most city kids today seem to show very little respect. I would like to build a small obscure shelter in a safe area far away from the general populace. I figure city kids wont come around, also don't want a driveway back there. The more over grown the better. I have been accumulating stuff and putting it here and there, that way it all can't be gotten at the same time. I like the idea of renting a storage unit near by your bug out place and also photographing your shelter as you build it to prove it is yours. I plan on growing vegitation all around my place when I build so it eventually becomes indestinguishable from the land it is on. I guess you just can't be too careful.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

kyfarmer said:


> There is a disconnect with today's youth, lack of apathy for the human condition. Story after story of kid's watching someone being beaten,robed,raped,murdered and it's o well glad it's not me, people can blame tv,games,sport's it does not matter the lack of respect for their fellow man or woman is a fact and it's here.


Their Children. You can only Blame the generation who raised them.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Dean said:


> Their Children. You can only Blame the generation who raised them.


Here, Here for that, you are completely right. Its the way you raise them, show by example, family dinner time, and camping outdoors just to mention a few.


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

@Longtime: Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope it will not have a lasting effect on life.



Dean said:


> Their Children. You can only Blame the generation who raised them.


Amen to that.

Although I would be considered part of that generation, I believe most of the problem lies in education and how parents raise their children.

After all, why blame video games, movies, television, when people grew up during for example WWII and still turned out allright. How a person acts in a certain situation, is based on how that person puts that particular situation into the context of past experiences and education.

V.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

Thanks to all for your concerns. It has been two years now and within the next 6 months we should be as close to back to normal as we can get. 

One thing that I have noticed is how much our private property is considered as public. We retired shortly after the fire and have been rebuilding ever since. Our property has always had a very uninviting driveway (all our vehicles are high clearance) and many no trespassing signs (you can't see any of our structures from the road either). While working we have had sports cars with no clearance come speeding down our drive to kids on 4-wheelers. None stop to talk, they see us and hit the brakes make a quick exit. I assume these are the type of people that burned us down. Some of them that we have blocked in when we are coming home just get irate and threaten to call the police (the deputy says he would love that call). We tell them they are free to go, but our car is not moving until we check out our property, none understand. 

And it's not just kids or young people, I surprised two little old ladies with a shovel one day as I stepped from the tree line and it was like the Keystone Cops as they ran off. This was so funny that if I could have caught them I would have dug up the Red Bud tree for them. Or the time I heard a chain saw and found a man and his son cutting wood on our property. Can I really blame the kids if these people are their examples?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

longtime said:


> Thanks to all for your concerns. It has been two years now and within the next 6 months we should be as close to back to normal as we can get.
> 
> One thing that I have noticed is how much our private property is considered as public. We retired shortly after the fire and have been rebuilding ever since. Our property has always had a very uninviting driveway (all our vehicles are high clearance) and many no trespassing signs (you can't see any of our structures from the road either). While working we have had sports cars with no clearance come speeding down our drive to kids on 4-wheelers. None stop to talk, they see us and hit the brakes make a quick exit. I assume these are the type of people that burned us down. Some of them that we have blocked in when we are coming home just get irate and threaten to call the police (the deputy says he would love that call). We tell them they are free to go, but our car is not moving until we check out our property, none understand.
> 
> And it's not just kids or young people, I surprised two little old ladies with a shovel one day as I stepped from the tree line and it was like the Keystone Cops as they ran off. This was so funny that if I could have caught them I would have dug up the Red Bud tree for them. Or the time I heard a chain saw and found a man and his son cutting wood on our property. Can I really blame the kids if these people are their examples?


Is it possible for you to dig a deep trench around your property-line making it difficult to cross, then weld-up a "draw-bridge" for access to your house. The draw-bridge could be "remote-controlled" via wireless winch-controller and a winch to pull the bridge up when you leave.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

No, I just think it is amusing any more. 

When I get a refrigerator or freezer dropped in my driveway I just take it to be recycled and get my $15.00. People are stupid!


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> Is it possible for you to dig a deep trench around your property-line making it difficult to cross, then weld-up a "draw-bridge" for access to your house. The draw-bridge could be "remote-controlled" via wireless winch-controller and a winch to pull the bridge up when you leave.


You are joking right? right? :2thumb:

V.


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

That is one of the problems with living in the country. 

I've had drunken hunters accidentally shoot two of my horses, 

I've had bad drivers crash into my fence and take off without bothering to tell me so I find my cattle wandering out on the road. 

I've had hunters cut my fencing just so they didn't have to crawl through. 

There was one major fire where my neighbor decided to almost burn down my barn and all of my hay for the winter while he was burning brush that got out of control. Luckily I have a powerful pump and a water cannon I use for irrigation. 

I haven't had any major vandalism yet but it will probably happen sooner or later.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

allen_idaho said:


> I've had drunken hunters accidentally shoot two of my horses,


We had one of our horses shot in the leg some years back. We never found out who it was. He fully recovered and we could ride him again but there is now only one person permitted to hunt here.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

Maybe we should change this to what have they done to you lately!


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

We've had trouble, too. Some jerk took a shot at a pheasant last year, but I think I already posted that whole story, we've had people turf up our fields, it goes on and on.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I thought it was just our dumb luck. In the summer of 08 we had a* rent-a-center* delivery truck drive into the north end of our field and stop about 3' from the pasture fence. The dogs alerted us to it but it was pulling out as we got out there. The next day we went to the showroom closest to us but they told us they hadn't had any deliveries in our area and to try the branch on the other side of the river. What did they say? We don't deliver in that area. Try the one closer to your home.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Vertigo said:


> You are joking right? right? :2thumb:
> 
> V.


100% serious.

Combine several "protection levels" between the average-Joe and your property, and, they will reconsider visiting without permission.

Along the road-way - encourage thorn-plants to grow (here in Alberta, our official flower is a WildRose - very pretty but thorny plant), then make a second layer of protection in the form of large-trunk trees (protect against wild-drivers driving through a fence) which will also work wonders as a wind-break.

Now - dig your trench - line it with rocks and along the top edge of the trench closer into your property, put in your barb-wire fence and then plant good-to-eat bushes along that zone (blueberries, raspberries, etc) and allow them to grow wild.

This would work well enough for smaller acreages (under 50) if the lay of the land is right. This is what my friend did with her 40 acre land - all access from the highway side was highly discouraged and her "backyard" was opened for her animals (horses, sheep, goats, chickens, etc)


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> 100% serious.
> 
> Combine several "protection levels" between the average-Joe and your property, and, they will reconsider visiting without permission.
> 
> ...


I did not take your suggestion of a trench seriously, but I have already started a natural fence. We have a tree call the Osage Orange. It is very hard and thorny tree that when cut just grow back thicker. I have started a 10' wide hedge row that I keep cutting. I figure that in 10 or more years nothing short of a main battle tank will able to pass, that includes people. Of course they normally just come down the drive anyway.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Joe, the only thing that could possibly help you in the rent a center instance would be a digital camera with a really good zoom feature to capture the truck's license plate. Even that's a stretch, but it's something. We've never actually had anyone 4 wheel in our fields in the daylight out here. We have, in my personal memory, had 3 suicides (one was a .22 long rifle thru the roof of the mouth, another was a handgun in the cemetary on our road that required the fire company to hose the brains off the tombstones, and the third was my 14 year old best friend when I was 12) and 3 cars burned out to charred shells after they were stolen and joy-rode. (joy-ridden? whatever...)


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## Sonnyjim (Sep 17, 2009)

These are all good suggestions. I have a few friends who have had their family hunt camps burned to the ground for no reason at all. I plan on purchasing 20-30acres of bush land with a pond/lake on it within the next 2 years and I have been thinking how I would make sure people do not completely violate the property. How much would it cost to completely fence 30 acres of land with no trespassing signs?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Sonnyjim said:


> How much would it cost to completely fence 30 acres of land with no trespassing signs?


7 years ago we fenced 7 acres for the horses. We used "T" posts for the long runs, and 4" locust posts for the corners and the gates. We have 3 strands of wire that is charged with 2 solar fencers. We did all the labor, got about half the T posts used and cut the locust trees for corner posts. We have about $2500 in it. Hope this helps.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Well I had an incident happen in the past few days that was a little disconcerting. I noticed that the house next door on 10 acres that was foreclosed on about six months ago, had the 1.O wire pulled out of the underground run, about 300ft. worth and coiled on the ground on Thanksgiving day. That's about 900ft of wire for all three runs of 220vac. I didn't think anyone would come back until the next day to retrieve(steal) it, I was wrong, the next morning it was cut up into 3ft sections, and actually only what was left of it. I called the local sheriffs dept to report it and a deputy sheriff came out to take a report. Then the bad news, he could not generate a report because there was not a 'victim' in the burglary. There is not a sign of what bank, which now owns the home, so thus no 'victim'.

One more point that chaps my hide, is that when the former owners left, they stripped everything they could from the property and house, cabinets, built-in appliances, air conditioning unit, 2 water tanks, and fixtures. To me this was stealing, they only lived in the home for about a year after it was built and had a very large $4500 mortgage per month. The home and property were basically owned by the mortgagor not the mortgagee.
This way of thinking may be out of line, even though, I did like the former neighbor.:scratch


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

Sonnyjim
Believe me, the fence and signs will not stop anyone. The best thing is to hide what you have and make it un-inviting. But with all the 4wheeler, that no longer works (my fire is a good example, you could not see anything from the road and my gate is 100' off the road and not visable on a very over grown driveway)


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## Sonnyjim (Sep 17, 2009)

Maybe the best thing to do would be to have a small cement celar with a door with big locks and store everything in it with any value. Maybe place some bear traps in the doorways


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## mrghostwalker (Sep 17, 2009)

Several years ago I was giving a lecture to parent group about juvenile crimes, drug use, behavior problems, etc. Inevitably several parents came up to me after the meeting and asked me what was the cause of all these problems. I simply told them that is was the moral decay of our society that was leading to these problems.
Without morality our society has no rules and our youth has no basic human decency.


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## youpock (Oct 20, 2009)

When I was young my family had a few acres and one year for the 4th of july we were out of town. Some guy caught one of our eucalyptus trees on fire with a bottle rocket, then he tried to put it out with OUR garden hose, pshh. It would have been much worse but our neighbor was a retired firefighter, when he called they came in force. Got the tree put out with limited damage to much else.


I worry about vandalism too, when my brother and I finally buy some property it won't be a primarily location so will end up sitting for times without anyone there.


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## HillbillyWoman (Dec 18, 2009)

*Glad I'm not going nuts*

After reading about the various incidents, I don't feel so 'kooky' about thorny hedgerows, and making things 'uninviting.'

I knew the moral decay was bad in the cities, but out in the boonies, too? Eeek!


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

HillbillyWoman said:


> After reading about the various incidents, I don't feel so 'kooky' about thorny hedgerows, and making things 'uninviting.'
> 
> I knew the moral decay was bad in the cities, but out in the boonies, too? Eeek!


WELCOME, HillbillyWoman, are you new to the forum?, from a longtime preparer. Look forward to your continued replies and posts.:welcome:


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I love thick rows of shrubs with lots of thorns.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess you've never had people ask you to do a lot of trimming of thorny bushes,  although I do understand why some one would plant them.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

mrghostwalker said:


> Several years ago I was giving a lecture to parent group about juvenile crimes, drug use, behavior problems, etc. Inevitably several parents came up to me after the meeting and asked me what was the cause of all these problems. I simply told them that is was the moral decay of our society that was leading to these problems.
> Without morality our society has no rules and our youth has no basic human decency.


My wife is a Religion teacher at a local Catholic high school. The other day, while teaching the Christian Morality class, they were talking about fighting, someone brought up boxing, and that led to a discussion of the Hollifield/Tyson fight where Tyson bit his ear off . . . one of the kids said that he didn't see anything wrong with that. My wife pressed him for an explanation, and the kid (a junior in high school) said that the instinct to fight is hard-wired into us, and it's hard not to give in to your primal urges like that. My wife told him that his answer actually was really disturbing, and the kid flew of his rocker, and started yelling at her that "it's different for his generation, they can't control impulses, and they shouldn't have to, since that's what the body's instinct is." He told her that she wouldn't understand because she's old (she just turned 29) and "you can't fight the urges that your body has, you've gotta just go with it."

My wife told him that our capacity for rational thought is was separates us from the animals and is what makes us human. When you give in to base animal instincts, you are nothing more than an animal. She sent him to see one of the school counselors.

Keep in mind, this is a private school where the parents are paying 20 grand a year to send these kids . . . these are supposed to be the cream of the crop. She has said that it's really sad how far the standards have dropped since we graduated from that school 12 and 13 years ago.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

I believe the exact purpose of religion is to establish a social morality outside of a animal instinct which is to destroy establishing a social cohesiveness. That's funny and disturbing all at once. Good story Turtle.
If there's a generation coming along that submit's to all there base instincts we are all in trouble.


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## marlas1too (Feb 28, 2010)

i like the idea of a osage fence --ill look into it very soon -i live on just over an i ac. but was broken into over 7 trs ago since them ive made bars from rebar and have put on all the windows and made gates on for
both doors also with the castel law here in wv i just want someone to break in while im home or if i find them still there--band -a very rude awkening-i will protect what is mine-and if tshf ive planes to make pungi pite on the back part of my land -i want my family to survive


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Try planting black locust trees also. The thorns on them are worse than Osage. Blackberry bushes work well also and you can eat the fruits.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

They run right over my blackberry bushes with their quads and I might be a little anti-social but a 10" thorn would kill(I have the black locust and keep them trimed to about 7ft.) and it's not worth the headache.


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## Tex (Oct 31, 2008)

longtime said:


> They run right over my blackberry bushes with their quads and I might be a little anti-social but a 10" thorn would kill(I have the black locust and keep them trimed to about 7ft.) and it's not worth the headache.


I would plant the blackberry bushes around 18" spikes sticking up out of the ground. When they try to drive over it, they will pop their tires.


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## pdx210 (Jan 8, 2010)

Dean said:


> I believe the exact purpose of religion is to establish a social morality outside of a animal instinct which is to destroy establishing a social cohesiveness.


 unfortunately religion can often be opposite of moral plenty of kids molested by catholic priests look at some of the crap done under Islam


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Tex said:


> I would plant the blackberry bushes around 18" spikes sticking up out of the ground. When they try to drive over it, they will pop their tires.


Even just scattering some nails or something on the ground would do. cause a slow leaker and the jerks'll be long gone from your property before they get a flat instead of being stuck there.


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## texican (Feb 15, 2010)

Longtime,
from reading all the posts, I can't tell if ya'll are actually living on the property, 100% of the time. If you are, you've really got a problem. I'd recommend joining every community group, social, function going on, and let folks know who you are.

If you're not living 'on site' full time, I'm afraid you're just another victim... people that believe just because they "own" something, that it's theres. I'm sure you have a deed in the local courthouse saying you own it... you do own it, de jure.

But, in the eyes of the local's, if you're an absentee landowner, you own nothing, 'de facto'.

I think every owner in absentia falls to this same problem, initially. No matter how remote the property 'may' be, all the locals will know about it. They'll know when it's sold, and who bought it. They'll know if the absentee owners are improving it, and they'll know if and when 'treasure' is deposited. Not saying it's good or bad, just saying it Exists...

Until you live on the land full time and are known and respected in the community, I'd not put diddly on a remote tract. You'll have enough trouble while living on the tract, changing traditional patterns of usage, not living on it, you'll never change anything.

I know the absentee landowners around me. I have their phone numbers. I use their property, with their knowledge... I scold everyone else I catch on it.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

texican said:


> Longtime,
> from reading all the posts, I can't tell if ya'll are actually living on the property, 100% of the time. If you are, you've really got a problem. I'd recommend joining every community group, social, function going on, and let folks know who you are.
> 
> If you're not living 'on site' full time, I'm afraid you're just another victim... people that believe just because they "own" something, that it's theres. I'm sure you have a deed in the local courthouse saying you own it... you do own it, de jure.
> ...


I live here full time. They burned me down while on vacation and my neighbors were at work, a county fireman saw the smoke from 10 miles away. They burglarized me while visiting in-laws at Christmas.

I know most of the old neighbors within a 5 mile radius, a few hunt my land with permission, others I or my wife worked with before retiring some are old family friends. It's not my old neighbors. We get city people out here all the time, they think because it's out in the country, it's public land. I have been working when I look up to see someone coming down our well posted drive only to see them hit the brakes when they see me and make a hasty exit. One of my neighbors does not even cut his first ten feet of corn because it's been picked clean, hell it's field corn and we are 30 miles from a major city, but only 5 miles from a small town. Now the new neighbors are a different story, they think they can drive their quads any where. I have seen land posted and gates and cables put up where it has never been before trying to keep them out, no luck and their kids would not do that. That does not even count the trash and appliance dumping. I have had to hook freezers up to the winch to clear the drive to get home. Yes, we have a problem and just think of what will happen if things get real bad.


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## robert (Mar 24, 2010)

If it wasn't kids with a gas can it could have been a number of things. Your right you are never really safe but the more prepared you are the safer you are.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

This post started off as a warning to people so that they could be better prepared. It is still the meaning of the post. Be it people or nature, you should try to protect your resources. A lot of good suggestions have been made, some are practical some are not. But you need to be aware of how quickly things can be lost. We lost over 11,000 sq. ft. of shelter between the house and shop, a life time of memories, tons of prepping, tools etc. The lost was complete and starting over in your 50's is difficult, but think of how it would be after a major wide scale problem.


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## marlas1too (Feb 28, 2010)

longtime --if you have open cary in your state then start carring open the word will get around and if some of those trespassers ever try to take what is your they will think twice ----from the grave---sorry about the rant but it really gall me that some people ( and i use the term loosely) have no respect for other peoples property or they think they can do what the like because of what they or their parents make for a living--it was a different time when i grew up you could leave your place and never lock anything up and it would be there when you returned-the kids are not taught any moral values anymore you have to do what you must to protect your family


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

longtime.... sorry for your loss. I know the feeling. Even though on a lesser level. Some time ago my wife's jeep cherokee got burglarized, BOB, handgun,several hundred dollars worth of tools,cd's, and other stuff total loss over $3,000.00 
The punks who did it also did almost 50 other vehicles. They got caught and are currently awaiting sentencing.


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## Al-Thi'b (Jan 6, 2010)

That's terrible to hear brother, sorry about your stuff, but it's safe to say thank god yal weren't at home asleep when it all went up. The supplies even though scarce can be replaced, lives can't. Could be a blessing in disguise, you've now gone with more sturdy materials in the repair/replacement process. I hope they catch those arrogant kids.


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Besides my outer fence (around my property) I have another one ten feet from my home and all the way around ........at this time is only on two sides, L shape, and when the time comes it will go up on the other two sides........the whole land between my home and my inner fence will be booby trapped.

I now have 5 cameras and 4 monitors on at all time and when the time comes 3 more cameras and 2 more monitors will be going up.

All of the above is only about 30% of my security system.


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

After reading all of the posts on this thread, I came to realize that there's a lot of things I have been doing wrong in trying to prepare. Being new at this, I have been following the words of wisdom I have gleaned from these posts. Every day I learn something new, and have modified my plans probably a hundred times by now as I learn from the experience of others much more capable than me. That being said, God bless you one and all... and thanks! :wave:


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## Al-Thi'b (Jan 6, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> After reading all of the posts on this thread, I came to realize that there's a lot of things I have been doing wrong in trying to prepare. Being new at this, I have been following the words of wisdom I have gleaned from these posts. Every day I learn something new, and have modified my plans probably a hundred times by now as I learn from the experience of others much more capable than me. That being said, God bless you one and all... and thanks! :wave:


Best knowledge is learned by learning afterall 
Always better to catch them now and make amends than later down the road when everything has already gone wrong.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> After reading all of the posts on this thread, I came to realize that there's a lot of things I have been doing wrong in trying to prepare. Being new at this, I have been following the words of wisdom I have gleaned from these posts. Every day I learn something new, and have modified my plans probably a hundred times by now as I learn from the experience of others much more capable than me. That being said, God bless you one and all... and thanks! :wave:


Thanks Harley..... The best advice I give to people like us who are just strarting to prep is. Be open and flexable to change. Never plan on just the standard "type" of disaster,emergency,whatever, remember it's NOT what you plan for that you need worry about. It's what you fail to plan for that sneeks up to bite you on the a$$. Always use opsec and tell as few people about your plans/preps as you can. the fewer people that know about what you have in a shtf situation the better.


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