# Can you live where you're at without electricity?



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I was thinking about that with this story:

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/temperatures-to-reach-almost-120-degrees-in-west-this-week/

Temperatures To Reach Almost 120 Degrees In West This Week

"PHOENIX (AP) - Arizona is in the grips of a dangerous heat wave that could send temperatures soaring to 118 degrees by the weekend in Phoenix, ..."

Arizona is the state with the 15th highest population. It has more people than Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Indiana. I don't see how preppers could live there after the collapse. Not only is it dangerously hot but water isn't the easiest thing to find either. There's a reason why the population was less than a million until some time in the 1950's. Florida's population has increased 10 fold since 1940. I can't imagine trying to live in either place without air conditioning.


----------



## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

It is much more difficult on people who are not acclimated to the heat. I was born and raised in extreme heat conditions with no air conditioning. I understand the heat and can deal with it. For someone from up North it is a really tough challenge to live in hot weather. We had a young lady from Wales telling us how hot it was there. She was sweltering in the upper 70s. 

The thing that will get a place like Florida if all you know what breaks loose will be the age of their residents. You have so many retirees down there with health issues and a roadway system that limits access to getting out in emergencies. On a good day the roads can and will back up with old folks running at 30 under the speed limit. Or worse yet pulling in front of a truck and getting flattened. 

AC in Florida is not as big an issue as you might think. The water around it cools it down at night quite a bit. 

You are very correct about water being an issue nearly everywhere. Right now water people are talking about the fact that as this country grows we may and probably will have to put dams on the Mississippi River. If you look at Egypt right now they are talking war over water in the Nile with Ethiopia damming up the Nile for a new reservoir and electric project. I think water is going to be a much bigger issue than AC in the future. GB


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I could(and will) live here without air conditioning, but I live in the hills where it is a "little" cooler. Water is the main issue. People live in many hot places around the world with no air conditioning. Air conditioning is a rather "new" invention(roughly a hundred years).


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'm from Michigan's Upper Peninsula originally. Up there it's cool enough to wear a sweatshirt after sunset on a lot of summer days. So for me, even in Wisconsin it's too hot. After the collapse I'll probably be sleeping in the basement in the summer time.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

GrinnanBarrett said:


> You are very correct about water being an issue nearly everywhere. Right now water people are talking about the fact that as this country grows we may and probably will have to put dams on the Mississippi River. If you look at Egypt right now they are talking war over water in the Nile with Ethiopia damming up the Nile for a new reservoir and electric project. I think water is going to be a much bigger issue than AC in the future. GB


Absolutely. If the Lord tarries, in 20 years we will see huge fighting over water issues. The aquifers are all going down. I can see the Mississippi getting tapped if needed.


----------



## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Several things I see here, I agree that if you have grown up where its hot, it not nearly the issue, BUT as we get older we find both the heat and cold affect us more and would prefer to live in a modest 70 degree temp. The other factor and main factor is water. In the Midwest and West, rainfall, lakes, rivers, are all disappearing due to the populations, farming. The big puddle deep underground is also being sucked dry. I believe more people will be forced to move Eastward. If we had a magic machine that could turn millions of gallons of sea water per day into usable, drinkable water that might cure it, but at this point it ain't happening. I live in Maine, presently we have plenty of water due to snow and rain. Yea, there is the cold, the bugs and I'm sure you can find a host of other things to bitch about, like the salt they use on the roads, but at this point not water. Many wells are 20 feet deep and will sometimes in a hot summer dry up, but people with 100 foot wells don't have that issue. Water is one big issue the West will have to come to grips with real soon.
Pretty hard to find the perfect prepper place. Not to hot, not to cold, good growing season, plenty of water, low cost of living, and taxes, floods, earthquakes, tornados, jobs availability, privacy, low cost land availability, solar, wind, usage. Please let me know if you have it all, I'm looking for that magic kingdom...


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Humans have lived successfully in almost every climate on the planet, this won't change in the future. The transition to no air conditioning would be brutal for reasons mentioned like people not being acclimatized and the elderly but perhaps even more important is the way in which buildings are constructed. There are many ways to make a home more comfortable in the heat such as earth-sheltering or conversely high airflow but these are rarely employed today as they are often seen as counter-productive in an a/c situation.

IMO the only real long term restrictions on human populations from a climate perspective are the ability to produce food and availability of water.

I would have extreme difficulty adapting to the heat and working, laying in the shade I am fine but physical exertion above 30C (90F) is pretty much an embodiment of my personal hell.


----------



## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I do not do well in the heat. I HATE to be too hot cause there's only so naked you can get. At least in the cold you can put more on, lol. 
If we didn't have AC, I'd try to do my work super early in the morning or late in the evening and then just sit in the shade outside during the hottest parts of the day. What else could you do?


----------



## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Did one full summer w/out AC here. Plenty of triple digit days too! It was rough on many days but as lazydasie mentioned work early and pate I managed to survive. A drought year would be rough with lots of water to haul, I'd do it at night.


----------



## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

One of the main reasons I'm looking at the "underground"homes(is major climate changes).If the SHTF and least I will be equal both ways(not too hot or cold).I have city water but one of my first missions is to have a deep well for water.With the heat index being so crazy.I've thought several times about large sections of "shade cloth" to protect my garden from burn.Maybe large poles(buried at regular intervals) with hooks so the shade cloth could be removed and put up as needed and a small greenhouse(the kind that's half in the ground and covered)These could be worth making your lifestyle after TSHTF much easier.


----------



## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> Pretty hard to find the perfect prepper place. Not to hot, not to cold, good growing season, plenty of water, low cost of living, and taxes, floods, earthquakes, tornados, jobs availability, privacy, low cost land availability, solar, wind, usage. Please let me know if you have it all, I'm looking for that magic kingdom...


The piney woods of east Texas is close enough to perfect


----------



## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

the area i plan on moving to has a very high water table, so if i can manage it right it shouldnt be an issue even in a drought


----------



## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

tsrwivey said:


> The piney woods of east Texas is close enough to perfect


yeah i plan on living near woodville


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Coworkers have their service vehicles windows rolled up and the A/C running on high. Then they complain about "dying" when they get out of the vehicles to work in 80 degree weather. I drive pass with the A/C off and windows rolled and wave.

Same coworkers complain about working in rain. I suggest if they would wear a hat like I am, the hat would keep them from getting their brain drown...too late?


----------



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

My first 14 years I grow up with out air condition nor refrigeration, water was kept cool in a heavy clay pot the wood/charcoal stove was outside, meats preserved in cans cover with lard, fresh daily eggs and veg.,
sausages drying over the stove and yes ice was deliver about every week to keep the homemade butter /cheese fresh .The house in the country never had electricity, had a very high roof, huge windows that never close and the kitchen/dining room were a separated building all together, the elders did their work very early took cool bath in the river came home and lay down under a cover porch or in hammocks, no one complain nor had a heat stroke.
Those who live in a concrete jungle and depend on electricity and never open their windows have problems, many of the buildings that house the elderly windows can`t be open do to regulation like the new schools ,so basically our new cell phone generation will not survived without electricity just like their parents, born in a world of must have amenities, teach your children now.


----------



## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

It's 97 on my back porch right now, and as long as I don't have to stay long out in the sun, it's not too bad. Usually, when a heat wave hits the plains, the humidity goes down and there is a wind. Weather extremes take getting used to, but humans adapt when there is no alternative. I grew up in ND, and saw a low of -52, and a high of 115, but don't recall having a serious problem with either. We were prepared to deal with both.

I suffered far more when I was stationed in Florida when the temp and humidity were both 85 and we had to work in the sun all day, and the barracks had no air conditioning at night.


----------



## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

Depending on the situation. Yes I could live with out electricity, and have. BUT the nazi's here that run the local utility manopoly and their pet beurocrats (sp?) can/ have/ will condemne your house as un-inhabitable if you go off grid for over 90 days. SO we pretty much have no choice here. No power no house.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

101airborne said:


> BUT the nazi's here will condemn your house as un-inhabitable if you go off grid for over 90 days.


Same here; its municipal code within city limits.

Outside city limits you don't need power in unincorporated areas, but if you have anyone under the age of 18 living with you, the grid power must be connected per C.P.S. orders.


----------



## Roslyn (Feb 20, 2012)

If you live in hot areas, you will learn to build the way they used to. Thick mud walls keep out the heat and sun. In the South East they would build so the houses would catch breezes.

Use passive solar styles and window shades and you can keep your house cooler without even a fan.

Think before you build, dig a basement if you can. Mine is lovely this time of year.


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I've never had air con. It gets hot here but not cold (just below freezing at night). The heat isn't a problem, except that we don't work in the sun in the middle of the day when it gets above 100. 
Our visitors on the other hand really struggle, a lot have never worked outside and the only time they go 'out in the sun' is to the beach. They also seem to be terrified of the rain....  Even temps of 75 will be too much for them and 70 will be too cold. Even after a month here they will still be struggling, it seems to take at least three months before they begin to cope.


----------



## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

BillS said:


> I was thinking about that with this story:
> 
> http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2013/06/25/temperatures-to-reach-almost-120-degrees-in-west-this-week/
> 
> ...


I have,I will again.I'm too stupid to die and hard to kill anyway.


----------



## dirtgrrl (Jun 5, 2011)

My neighbors think I'm nuts because I don't even turn on the AC until it gets to about 100 out, and then I keep the stat at 82. My house was built in the 40s and didn't get AC until I had it installed about 10 years ago. If it weren't for the August monsoons (very hot and very humid) I probably would have stayed with a swamp cooler. The house was built with many tall double-hung windows that I strategically open and close to maintain cross-breezes and pull in cooler air from the shady side of the house. The walls are thick and maintain a stable temperature pretty well. I only use AC about 3 months of the year, and I don't have to heat much most years either. 

AC has changed the way we live and work. The siesta was an adaptation to hot climate by working very early in the day, laying about for the hottest part of the day, then rousing late in the afternoon and working or socializing into the night.

Phoenix sucks (my personal opinion, please don't get bent outta shape). Most of my family is there but I'll never live there. It's hot even in December ... which is why my BOL is at high elevation.


----------



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

dirtgrrl said:


> My neighbors think I'm nuts because I don't even turn on the AC until it gets to about 100 out, and then I keep the stat at 82. My house was built in the 40s and didn't get AC until I had it installed about 10 years ago. If it weren't for the August monsoons (very hot and very humid) I probably would have stayed with a swamp cooler. The house was built with many tall double-hung windows that I strategically open and close to maintain cross-breezes and pull in cooler air from the shady side of the house. The walls are thick and maintain a stable temperature pretty well. I only use AC about 3 months of the year, and I don't have to heat much most years either.
> 
> AC has changed the way we live and work. The siesta was an adaptation to hot climate by working very early in the day, laying about for the hottest part of the day, then rousing late in the afternoon and working or socializing into the night.
> 
> Phoenix sucks (my personal opinion, please don't get bent outta shape). Most of my family is there but I'll never live there. It's hot even in December ... which is why my BOL is at high elevation.


One of the best things preppers can do is model their homes after those made in the 40's and earlier. There were good reasons for high ceilings and the other features those homes had. Modern homes are designed for central air and heat which makes them death traps in extreme hot or extreme cold conditions when the power is out.


----------



## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Here in southern Indiana it gets down to 0* F. sometimes in winter and can be over 100* F. in summer, but the killer is high humidity. We are near the Ohio River Valley, and humidity can stay at 70 to 80 for weeks in summer, with temps in the high 80's to 90's. 

I lived without AC as a kid, but we had huge shade trees around the house. It still was unbearable in an upstairs bedroom. Some people even built screened porches for sleeping in very hot weather back then before AC was found anywhere except a few stores. 

Our home is very well insulated and has the aluminum reflective foil in the attic over fiberglass insulation. It stays cool until summer temps stay high at night and there is no cooling off time. Yes, we could endure it without AC, but I wouldn't want to. 

Winter heat is no problem with a wood stove and lots of hardwood around here. Water is no problem as long as it rains with any degree of regularity, since we have a cistern that was the original water supply for the house. It holds about 6,700 gallons, and is typically overflowing in Spring through mid-summer. It is 85" deep (just over 7 feet) and we only use one inch to 1 1/2" a day without conserving. We can live on much less if need be, so it is reasonable to say we have 90 day or more of supply without rain. And, we get 40" or more of rain a year. 

The cistern has a hand pump on the back porch just off the kitchen, there is an electric pump for it, but also a gravity drain in the basement to get water without going outside in winter. We can carry water in buckets to operate the flush toilets/septic system without power. Not a big hardship there, either. 

We do most of our food preservation by canning, but I would hate to give up the freezer for meat. Refrigeration and the food freezer are the biggest hurdles for living without electricity. So, we are working on solar PV to deal with that and some minimal lighting and other sundry uses. 

So, yes, it is doable. I would prefer that it not be a surprise need to go off grid, but we could manage in any case. I would miss the power in my shop, but there are still many things I can do there with hand tools, a blacksmith shop, and even welding with the use of a small generator. Also have a 200 amp Miller stick welder that is gasoline powered and can be a generator also. 

We put in a 2,500 gallon tank to collect water for the chickens and for garden irrigation in late summer. That is all gravity flow. 

For cooking there is the electric range and microwave, but also an LP gas range and the wood heating stove that can be converted to cook on it by installing the separate, smaller firebox I made for it when I built the stove. The wood stove and gas range are located in a summer kitchen built on one end of the house and can be shut off from the main house by closing a door. That keeps the house cool in summer when we do a lot of canning on the gas range. That summer kitchen has 2 outside doors and 6 big windows to cool it easily. 

Wife and I would both be Jonesing for the internet, but we could live without it.


----------



## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

As a die-hard Minnesotan, I would take -40* over the heat. It's a unique kind of challenge that I love to face. The only downside: dress your kiddos for 20 minutes to play outside for 15 before they want to go in and get hot cocoa! Takes a long time to fix your snowblower outside with no garage that way. Uffda!

But, I do know I can take the heat and humidity from a few months down in Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. Wouldn't volunteer for it again though!


----------



## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Yes and did. The settlers did it before us and a lot of those south of the border still do it today along with many of the indian reservations in that area.

BTW, the west is not without water, you just need to know how to find it. Cactus is a source that can keep you alive. Some of the water is just below the surface in the desert areas if you know how to find it.

AC has made wimps out of many of us. I did not have it until I was 26 and now 20 years later I am once again living without it. Makes it easier to work outside.


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> As a die-hard Minnesotan, I would take -40* over the heat


I spent 50 years freezing in Minnesota. I figure it will take 50 more down here just to thaw out!


----------



## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

Well.... I definitely prefer the cooler weather over the hot stuff, but I can definitely get by with no AC. I will openly admit though, that I am a wuss when it comes to having the AC cranked up. I've been spoiled for a good long while now, and take advantage of it all that I can because one day, I might not be able to use it.  That being said though.. I can absolutely handle the heat and humidity, I just despise it when I'm all sweaty and sticky... unless I'm on the boat with a beer in my hand.. :cheers:

Living in NC, I think this is a sweet spot. The summers can be a little toasty and humid, but overall, the weather is pretty dang good here. A lot of water sources, decent rainfall, and mild winters.. that's an epic win in my book!


----------



## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

Just returned from Fla. temps. in 90's and super humid. Arrived back home and temps. in the 90's and super dry. But of course in about 6-7 months I'll be complaining about -60's. I guess I'd complain if you hung me with a new rope. Natives and later trappers and miners survived up here without electricity. Someone would survive but it would weed out a lot of folks.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> I would miss the power in my shop,..... and even welding with the use of a small generator. Also have a 200 amp Miller stick welder that is gasoline powered and can be a generator also.


2 or 3 good 12 volt batteries connected in series works in a pinch as a DC arc welder for light jobs. Saves you from having to fire up the generator.

I can't live without a 4-1/2" angle grinder. 
The nice thing is, they will run beautifully on any cheap inverter (if its large enough) ....and for a very long time on one 12 volt car battery!


----------



## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes on the grinder! Very useful item for me, too. 

Our shop has several larger manual tools including a cranked drill press, blacksmith forge and pedal powered grind stone (2 1/2" thick and 20" diameter for cool sharpening of edge tools), lever shear for bar stock, foot shear for sheet metal, slip roll, hydraulic jack press, box and pan brake. Also have all the traditional hand tools for wood and metal, including cabinet and furniture making stuff. 

Not my idea of a good time to do things that way, but it works. An antique breast drill can crank a wood auger or metal drill bit and not worry about the battery going dead as long as your arm holds out. 

If there is no electricity, there will probably not be any gasoline either, so I store some to make sure I can run the chain saw and garden tractors. Have crosscut saws, scythes, and other such things for a no-gas situation. Got a bicycle if I REALLY need to go somewhere. If we get a grid-down situation, there will be more problems than just a lack of A/C, IMHO. NOTHING will work that we are accustomed to having. That means big trouble, and soon. The day after the grid goes down, we will all be living like Amish, whether we wanted to or not.


----------



## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

I live in Washing problem solved plenty of water duhh. Never too hot rarely too cold. I love dry heat, hate humid heat. We have propane generators that will supply about five years worth of rationed electric power. None of it for heating or cooling except in the studio I may use some to heat with a propane fireplace (rarely). Still working on a wind power set up


----------



## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

I could live without power here. It does get hot and humid in the summer but I know how to handle it. I would miss air conditioning and refrigeration though. I can see how people can easily get spoiled by air conditioning. I would be one of them if I let myself. I work in a big metal building with no heat or air. We have an air conditioner in the break room but it stays unplugged 99% of the time. Going in there with it on when its hot out makes it twice as hot outside it seems.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

LongRider said:


> except in the studio I may use some to heat with a propane fireplace (rarely)


How about a small wood-fired rocket mass heater for the studio?


----------



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

The weather has been in the high 80s and 90s the past week. If the electricity were to be cut I'd move the beds to the basement to keep the family cool. As far as winter... I'd pile on the blankets and quilts to keep everyone warm.

Other than the internet, lights, fans and the tv we'd be fine without the electricity.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Grimm said:


> Other than the internet, lights, fans and the tv we'd be fine without the electricity.


You can do a LOT of lighting (for many years) for about $150 worth of solar panels, batteries, LED bulbs and related items


----------



## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

I have a few of those little led 100 solar light strings in the house around the south facing windows and even one in the chicken coop area for nighttime use. I rarely turn on my lights at night as it is and I spose if I needed more light I'd fire up the oil latern or wait till the day. 
Water is not a issue in the Pacific Northwest...ever it seems...
I dont have AC , I do have a wonderful wood stove for winter.
I would miss my fan and have wondered if a solar panel would be enough to power it. the modern convienance stuff like the fridge n stove is nice but I've spent enough time in spike camps to know I can make do..


----------



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> You can do a LOT of lighting (for many years) for about $150 worth of solar panels, batteries, LED bulbs and related items


I have oil lamps and led lanterns right now. I am looking into solar lanterns and building a gasifier for the genny.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Grimm said:


> and building a gasifier for the genny.


:shudder: 
It's a lot of work to generate electricity from woodgas. It is not impossible; it's just that it isn't very convenient.


----------



## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

LincTex said:


> :shudder:
> It's a lot of work to generate electricity from woodgas. It is not impossible; it's just that it isn't very convenient.


Could you use woodgas to replace propane for cooking?


----------



## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I wouldn't want wood gas in the house. IIRC, it is mostly carbon monoxide, we maybe some methane or other stuff in the mix. CO is too dangerous in case of a leak. I might try biogas from fermented organic materials, which comes out mostly methane, I think.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Before the turn of the century, up to the 30's and especially in Europe, producer or syngas that was piped to all the streetlights and into buildings for lighting/cooking etc, was made from wood or other combustible materials, or often coal. When looking at historical situations it was rarely if ever called wood gas so the terms are confusing. It works great on a large scale the biggest problem on a small scale is storage.


----------



## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

machinist said:


> I wouldn't want wood gas in the house. IIRC, it is mostly carbon monoxide, we maybe some methane or other stuff in the mix. CO is too dangerous in case of a leak. I might try biogas from fermented organic materials, which comes out mostly methane, I think.


Is anyone up the the challenge of describing the steps you would take to get from point A to point Z:

Point A - composting material capable of producing methane.

[ . . . . ]

Point Z - methane pumped into your propane tank and ready to use in your home for cooking.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It isn't a very complex process but maybe not on topic. Basically anaerobic environment + water + carbon material + anaerobic bacteria = methane
Pressure can be allowed to build directly in the digestor or other tank keeping in mind oxygen entering the mix = potential BIG BOOM


----------



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> :shudder:
> It's a lot of work to generate electricity from woodgas. It is not impossible; it's just that it isn't very convenient.


LOL! I live on a mountain surrounded by trees that drop branches daily. Plus the neighbors around here don't realize their "garden waste" of cut down trees are helping me heat my house in the winter.

The parking pad by the shed is nothing but wood chips from splitting logs. If I use the gasifier for power outages and SHTF I'll be fine.


----------



## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

YEp, folks lived on the homestead in the house we do for more than 100 years before electric!

Air conditioning.. Whats that? lol


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Bobbb said:


> Point Z - methane pumped into your propane tank and ready to use in your home for cooking.


Methane most closely resembles natural gas. 
If your appliances are set up for propane, you will not have much success running them on methane.



Grimm said:


> The parking pad by the shed is nothing but wood chips from splitting logs. If I use the gasifier for power outages and SHTF I'll be fine.


Readily available (dry, NOT wet) wood chips (of the proper size) is only one very small part of the complex gasification equation.

One portion is the fuel source: Size and moisture content are extremely important.

Another is the gasifier itself; there are many designs, some with more merit than others, but all are not user friendly and require close monitoring/attention and a lot of maintenance. Proper airflow (and in the right location - very critical) as well as correct thermal zones and tar production/reduction, ash management, grate movement, excessive restriction, etc. management are definite sciences. You don't just throw in a bunch of wood chips and toss in a match and expect to run a generator. There is much more to this process than meets they eye. Believe it or not, the smaller you try to make your set-up, the more problems you will have (due to low airflow). Shoot for something that uses an engine at least 200 cubic inches (larger is better) to have a more reliable process. Small engines just don't make enough suction to either "keep the fire going" or to pull the gas through the apparatus (and if they do, then you are probably not filtering the gas well enough. GOOD filtering and drying creates a fair amount of restriction - that's why you start with a larger engine = more suction).

Third, The quality of the gas produced changes CONSTANTLY - with every batch of new fuel loaded, as well as during the batch. Not only that, but you really *must* get all the moisture, ash and tar out of the gas before it makes its way to the engine.

Ash and moisture are "somewhat" more manageable, but the learning process/curve needed to get tar reduction down to something the engine will reliably use (for long periods of time) will make anyone pull their hair out. Wood tar gets everywhere - inside everything, plugs your filters, and makes everything in the flow path sticky.

Good luck. Start building your gasifier NOW - it takes a fair amount of knowledge working with metal and a welder is necessary. Look at the designs that use an old car brake rotor, I think they are probably a good starting point. Get in good with local junkyards, because you will be scouring their scrap piles for the metals and materials you need.


----------



## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Same here; its municipal code within city limits.
> 
> Outside city limits you don't need power in unincorporated areas, but if you have anyone under the age of 18 living with you, the grid power must be connected per C.P.S. orders.


Wish it were so here as we're outside the city. However anywhere in the Vectren power area it happens which is most of S.W. indiana


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

stanb999 said:


> YEp, folks lived on the homestead in the house we do for more than 100 years before electric!
> 
> Air conditioning.. Whats that? lol


That is the requires when the temp above 80 and the stay closed in just the screens don't stop the insects... Screwy isn't?


----------



## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

LincTex said:


> How about a small wood-fired rocket mass heater for the studio?


When the time comes we and need to we will. Actually have a small little wood burning stove, the propane is easier less messy and is rarely needed even in the dead of winter. Although we had it well insulated when it was built it does not quiet explain why the temps are so constant. There is one room that is so cold year round we use it for cold storage. The rest of the building never seems to change temp never seems to get too cold or too warm. Once or twice a week in the dead of winter I use the propane to get it nice and toasty. Than it stays that way for a few days or week. The house has wood burning, we have enough dead fall each year to keep the house warm, and build some pretty nice fires in the fire pit during the summer months.


----------



## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

LincTex said:


> Good luck. Start building your gasifier NOW - it takes a fair amount of knowledge working with metal and a welder is necessary. Look at the designs that use an old car brake rotor, I think they are probably a good starting point. Get in good with local junkyards, because you will be scouring their scrap piles for the metals and materials you need.


Or you could just buy a kit from these guys if you have limited time and/or skill.

http://www.gekgasifier.com/

I want to build a gasifier in the near future, but they are kind of complicated and the learning curve seems steep.


----------



## webeable (Aug 29, 2012)

The heat will kill the golden horde as it tries to find food or water.

I have done backpacking in areas of high heat, (120) in shade learned many things from this but I don't live where heat is the problem. I know where I would go if was practical but is not now and would be impossible after post SHTF. Here I can live would I like it not really on 90+ days but would manage.


----------



## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I could live where I am now without elect, water would be an issue but in a couple weeks my SIL is getting us a 28,500 gallon water storage unit! In the shape of a 33' round 54" deep above ground pool!!! Yahoo!!!! 
Here in South Jersey we get plenty of 90-95+ days with 85-90+% humidity. I am used to working in the heat and muggy. Sweat my arse off, but as long as I stay ahead of the dehydration curve I can work all day in it. Your butt gets kicked by the end of the day, that is fact!! I consider air con a luxury, nice to have but not required for living!!


----------



## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I think most would have a much tougher time living without electric in the winter.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

hiwall said:


> I think most would have a much tougher time living without electric in the winter.


That's a good point, I wonder if that's true?
At the homestead I don't need electric at all, I use it for computer and lights etc. but don't need it. In the winter the wood cookstove and gas heater, and gas stove give more heat than we would ever need though we do have other sources available.

If a person's only source of heat is electric or a central furnace then there would sure be problems, at least in our neck of the woods, heat is not really an option here(although winter camping is fun) The thing about heat is that it is so easy to provide without power imo, we have been doing it since before the last ice age


----------



## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

double post


----------



## stanb999 (Nov 14, 2011)

hiwall said:


> I think most would have a much tougher time living without electric in the winter.


 What kind of prepper or plain old northerner can't make heat without electric? Wood stoves and the like just aren't uncommon at all.

P.S. cold winter nights without electric.... That's where babies come from


----------



## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

With everything there is to do everyday, once there is no power, there is gonna need to be a pretty big part of the day rationed out for cutting firewood by hand. That's gonna be tough.

Right now, in about 45 minutes, I can cut enough wood to heat my house for over a week. How long would that take with an ax and 2 man saw?

Our house has a/c. My office and bedroom is shut off. I work outside in Indiana humidity and I think I would be miserable during the day if I slept in a/c. I grew up without it. 

Some guys that I work with feel the same way and never turn on their a/c. Some guys get in their truck right after work and crank the a/c and rush home to sit in comfort. They are miserable during the day.

Those of us that seem to handle the heat better, are the ones that go home after work, have supper, and go to work on the farm til dark or close to it. So maybe that has something to do with it.


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

jeff47041 said:


> With everything there is to do everyday, once there is no power, there is gonna need to be a pretty big part of the day rationed out for cutting firewood by hand. That's gonna be tough.
> 
> Right now, in about 45 minutes, I can cut enough wood to heat my house for over a week. How long would that take with an ax and 2 man saw?
> 
> ...


It takes me half an hour to get a trailer load of dead fall, I take nothing with me but a sledge hammer. Two loads and I've got enough for a week for the wood stove and the wood heater. Both hubby and I struggle with the chainsaw when our backs are bad, so we've learnt to do without at times. This wood burns fast and it's not super hot but it's easy to collect. We're lucky that the forest here has plenty of this to pick up. I'd much rather be burning nice solid split logs but we do what we can.

As far as using a two man, my back won't do that anymore. But I still have the skills to sharpen and set. The younger generation can do the cutting. A good saw and two fit cutters and it's not much slower than a chainsaw.

Firewood will always be a problem for us though. As we are getting older it's getting harder and although we'd love to pay someone to cut for us we can't find anyone willing to do the work.


----------



## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Wellrounded said:


> It takes me half an hour to get a trailer load of dead fall, I take nothing with me but a sledge hammer. Two loads and I've got enough for a week for the wood stove and the wood heater. Both hubby and I struggle with the chainsaw when our backs are bad, so we've learnt to do without at times. This wood burns fast and it's not super hot but it's easy to collect. We're lucky that the forest here has plenty of this to pick up. I'd much rather be burning nice solid split logs but we do what we can.
> 
> As far as using a two man, my back won't do that anymore. But I still have the skills to sharpen and set. The younger generation can do the cutting. A good saw and two fit cutters and it's not much slower than a chainsaw.
> 
> Firewood will always be a problem for us though. As we are getting older it's getting harder and although we'd love to pay someone to cut for us we can't find anyone willing to do the work.


We got a 11 million Mexicans we can send you!!!!


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> We got a 11 million Mexicans we can send you!!!!


I think Canada might still call dibs 
Finally we are getting some to stay past the first frost

Like Wellrounded mentioned, in our area as well the primary fuel, especially for the cook stove, was branches and dead fall. Young kids and women didn't use saws much but they did a lot of the wood gathering.
When homesteaders came here, first thing was to build a logcabin, once that was done the branches and notching was a good portion of their wood for the year.
We "waste" huge amounts of wood on our place every year just trimming fence lines, dealing with downed trees, etc gives more than we can use and trying to sell anything other than birch or possibly aspen is often not worth the trouble.


----------



## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

hiwall said:


> I think most would have a much tougher time living without electric in the winter.


We get snowed in without power for a couple of months each year. We live off of what we have grown, harvested, gathered, hunted, caught and preserved. And test our preps, a chance to see that everything is in good working order. It is one of my favorite times of year, because it is peaceful quiet. Not a lot of chores to do, we get to relax enjoy the fruits of our labor. Sit around the fire, catch up on our reading, or movies, hobbies and crafts, or just hike and play in the snow. Or just sleep in late, stay in bed all day.


----------



## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

LongRider said:


> We get snowed in without power for a couple of months each year. We live off of what we have grown, harvested, gathered, hunted, caught and preserved. And test out preps, a chance to see that everything is in good working order. It is one of my favorite times of year, because it is peaceful quiet. Not alot of chores to do, we get to relax enjoy the fruits of our labor. Sit around the fire, catch up on our reading, or movies, hobbies and crafts, or just hike and play in the snow. Or just sleep in late, stay in bed all day.


That sounds rather nice ...


----------



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> I think Canada might still call dibs
> Finally we are getting some to stay past the first frost
> 
> Like Wellrounded mentioned, in our area as well the primary fuel, especially for the cook stove, was branches and dead fall. Young kids and women didn't use saws much but they did a lot of the wood gathering.
> ...


I often have people question the deadfall I burn.... They tell me it'll clog the flue, it won't burn hot enough, I'll be cleaning out the ash pan every 10 minutes. All true but they don't offer to spend a day here cutting wood :laugh: I'd love to have 3 years wood cut and stacked but that isn't going to happen unless the wood cutting fairy visits us.....


----------



## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

*Andi said:


> That sounds rather nice ...


Thanks it is. Like your sig says


> Homesteading ... it's a way of life.


and it is a good way of life.


----------



## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I love birch, it is great to burn, but I can sell it for good money.
Balsam poplar on the other hand people say it'll never burn, it's useless for building anything :dunno: No skin off my nose, I just look at the 100year old buildings made with them and throw another log on the fire

I don't mess around with the chimney, it gets cleaned whether it's dirty or not.


----------



## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I've done it here, its hard on even those of us born here, but it can be done. Lots of laying in the pool!


----------

