# Bandsaw mill to make a barn



## HELIXX

The farm/ranch were aquiring does not come with a barn. It does come with an innordinant amount of trees just ripe for the picking.
This is the proposed mill were looking at. Model 1600
Hence we will cut the wood to build the timber framed barn with the band saw mill. It's gonna be a huge barn too.


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## The_Blob

here's a thread for you:

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f38/portable-sawmill-4653/


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## The_Blob

where do you plan on storing the timber while it cures?


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## MrSfstk8d

Next question, can you get extended infeed and outfeed rails to hande the length of timbers you'll need for a large barn?


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## nj_m715

For us crafty/poor/cheap folk


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## HELIXX

MrSfstk8d said:


> Next question, can you get extended infeed and outfeed rails to hande the length of timbers you'll need for a large barn?


The longest beam in my plans is only 14 feet.


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## HELIXX

The_Blob said:


> where do you plan on storing the timber while it cures?


I will just build a multi million dollar computer controled kiln just like the used 1200 years ago when they built Venice. Just kidding. This will built out of green wood. Just like they did 1200 years ago.  Ever heard of a church group that call themselves the Amish?


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## HELIXX

nj_m715 said:


> For us crafty/poor/cheap folk
> YouTube - chainsaw mill


And the resourceful. :2thumb:
Mine should net me some jingle too.


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## MrSfstk8d

The amish have been around since the eigth century? WOW!! LOL


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## The_Blob

HELIXX said:


> I will just build a multi million dollar computer controled kiln just like the used 1200 years ago when they built Venice. Just kidding. This will built out of green wood. Just like they did 1200 years ago.  Ever heard of a church group that call themselves the Amish?


really?... 

If the lumber is used green (not sufficiently air dried or kiln dried) it will tend to warp or distort in other ways as the drying process happens over time. One farmer locally lost his home to a fire. In an *effort to rebuild quickly he used green lumber* in his home. Over time, *the lumber dried out* as the heater ran in the winter and the sun heated up the structure in the summer. The result was very uneven floors from the bowed floor joists, bowed walls and sticking doors. :nuts:


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## The_Blob

MrSfstk8d said:


> The amish have been around since the eigth century? WOW!! LOL


not in Ohio they haven't :lolsmash:


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## HELIXX

MrSfstk8d said:


> The amish have been around since the eigth century? WOW!! LOL


Two seperate sentences. Lets all try to play nice here. Our lives are at stake.


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## HELIXX

The_Blob said:


> really?...
> 
> If the lumber is used green (not sufficiently air dried or kiln dried) it will tend to warp or distort in other ways as the drying process happens over time. One farmer locally lost his home to a fire. In an *effort to rebuild quickly he used green lumber* in his home. Over time, *the lumber dried out* as the heater ran in the winter and the sun heated up the structure in the summer. The result was very uneven floors from the bowed floor joists, bowed walls and sticking doors. :nuts:


Please try and not think neo modern building technique. This barn is mortices and tenoned together. The components are not 2X4's or 2x6's but huge beams.


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## HELIXX

Building with green lumber 
Ralph_Beaty on Sat, 12/15/2001 - 02:07 in The Archives
*
I am in the process of building a tree house for my sons and have access to three local sawmills that are now cutting white oak. I would like to use white oak for the foundation and support structure because of its strength and durability. The only problem is the sawmills only have green white oak.

I have gone to Lowes and Home Depot for pressure treated pine, and since it's stored outdoors, it's also wet.

In my opinion, both the white oak and PT pine are going to shrink once I secure them to the trees. Yet I fear either may pull out of square or level in the tree, making playing in it dangerous.

I am familiar with an early structure Frank Lloyd Wright built out of green lumber in the early 1920's, using it right on top of the dirt foundation. Of course, the structure is now in need of serious structural repair. However, for my purposes at present I'm thinking that if a green-wood built house can last this long, then surely a green-wood built tree house foundation would meet my needs.

Any input you can provide would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Ralph Beaty

Building with green lumber | Breaktime


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## HELIXX

LOGGING

According to NOAA and the National Weather Service, straight line winds, which is the descending air inside a thunderstorm, can cause damage equivalent to a strong tornado and can exceed 100 MPH. These straight line winds "can be extremely dangerous to aviation." They can also fell hundred year old trees. In June of 1998, a straight-line wind blew through southeastern Lawrence County, TN. One hundred thirteen trees on the Hillhouse farm were toppled. The vast majority of these trees were oak, but there were also some walnut, cherry, poplar, sassafras, sycamore, and lindwood trees uprooted or snapped near the base. Some sweetgum trees damaged by beavers were cut and used for rafters. (Note: sweetgum lumber twists; don't process it until you are ready to use it.)

Instead of simply letting these trees die and rot, Ken, along with son Kerry, father-in-law Paul Hillhouse, and good friend/first cousin Bruce Hillhouse, decided to harvest them. The process actually sounded pretty easy: go into the woods, cut off the limbs, load the logs, take them to the sawmill, and bring home lumber. The reality consisted of a lot of hard work.

But before the first log was harvested, Bruce took Ken out to meet Jonas Miller, an Amish sawmill operator in northwest Lawrence County. Mr. Miller must be formally introduced to a new customer. If he likes the gentleman, he will provide a time to bring in logs to the sawmill. If someone just shows up with logs without the formal introduction, the logs will not be cut.

Many (most?) of the trees did not fall in a flat, open area. Just getting to some of them was half the challenge. Once a viable tree was identified and the extraneous limbs removed, the log was measured then cut into usable lengths (8 ft., 10 ft., 12 ft., or 16 ft. lengths). These cut logs then had to be pulled off the hillsides using a tractor and chain. a cant-hook was used to turn the logs and maneuver them into place. Then, using the boom on the tractor, the logs were lifted onto Randy Hillhouse's 20-foot sided trailer. All logs had to be loaded facing the same direction. The trailer would hold approximately 7 large logs or as many as 11 smaller ones. Once loaded, the trailer would be hooked to the tractor which would pull it out of the valley. Once pulled up the hill on Sugar Creek Road, the trailer would be disconnected from the tractor and connected to Paul's F150 truck for the ride through town.

Loading logs on the trailer

Trailer load of boards.

At the Miller sawmill, Jonas' children would take pity on the old men (ages 47 and 55) and help unload the logs. These tiny children could move those logs like they were pick-up sticks, lining them up to go through the saw.

The saw itself was powered by a diesel engine - the only "mechanical" item used by the Amish. Unusable slabs would be loaded onto a lorry, and draft horses would be used to haul the slabs away. The good lumber would be put on a trolley and moved to a staging area away from the saw. Lumber would then have to be loaded onto the trailer, taken back to the farm, and unloaded piece by piece. A full load of lumber (enough to build a small shed) cost approximately $30 - not counting time, diesel for the tractor, and gas for the truck.

Our first building effort using green lumber was the barn. We have since built a tool shed, added onto the barn, and have enough lumber sawed to build yet another barn. Bruce added a two-story addition to his house. Scrap lumber was used to build a shelter for the billy pen and to build feed stands. This was recycling at it's finest. 
Logging to build barns


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## HELIXX




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## HELIXX

I try not to do much hammer and chiseling at my age than I have to.
Hence..........


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## HELIXX

Here's a nice saw jig.


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## The_Blob

HELIXX said:


> Please try and not think neo modern building technique. This barn is mortices and tenoned together. The components are not 2X4's or 2x6's but huge beams.


as are the floors, walls, and roof?...

...

...

...

why not just use the forms and pour it all when you build your "castle"?


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## goodoleboy8205

Band mills are slow. They do a great job of cutting logs. Ive had a band mill and i didnt like it, mainly because it was too slow. I sold it and bought an old circular mill ( an 01 Frick) It saws about 7 to 10 times faster than a band mill. 
Using green lumber is not as bad as most make it out to be. If you look back to how it was done in the past it worked just fine. Back then homes were framed ( balloon Framing) and sheathed then set for a season to cure out. after it was cured then the interiors were done. if there was any bad warping of lumber it was then replaced. for barns or sheds nail it up green and let it dry standing, there will be shrinkage but for a barn its ok. Ive built several barns and sheds using lumber that was growing just a few days before it was nailed up. ( cut it one day sawed it the next nailed it up on the following day. ) 
A few things to remember on sawing your own logs. 1) a crooked log makes a crooked board. Its true that the saw will saw straight through the log but where it saws in and out of the grain line it will bow. 2) beams always need to be made from the center of the log. By having the heart of the log in the center of the beam it will stay straight, get your boards from where you square up your beam. One log one beam. I cant say this enough. 3) properly stacking the lumber and allowing it to air dry a little will minimize shrinkage. Three months air drying in summer months boards will be 75% dry and 90% of the shrinkage will occur during that time. Stack boards with air spaces to allow drying.


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## The_Blob

I pass on balloon-framed houses now that I've owned a few (4)... 

they original builders seem to usually have had the same building philosophy for every aspect of the project "*get it done, fast*" not a single 90 degree angle in any of em'  , not a single level floor, only 1 had a proper basement floor & footer, the rest were 'floating pads' (no, they weren't legal when the places were built & they sure as Hell aren't legal now), floor joists that started at one side & then butted against another one on top of the load-bearing wall!  Let's not forget that nobody ever heard of insulation before 1970  and that with 2' on center spacing the exterior walls are like surrounding a house with about 40 chimneys that carry air (and fire) quite nicely.

This is why I do not have rosy colored glasses for how some things were done "in the good ol' days"... if they were so good, we would still be doing it like that. :rant:

I'm grateful for the experience, I just wish I could've achieved it without so much PAIN along the way. :lolsmash:


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## Calebra

I've worked as a stick framer a long time ago.THe-Blob is right--even when built right it's still crap. Like new cars--simply not designed to last. The favorite saying when it comes to this sort of job--sheetrock covers everything.Enough said.
I do small frame timberframing and woodworking for a living now a days.Building a timberframe with green wood is not a problem at all. That's how it's always been done. You just have to expect moisture changes and take inot account. Done properly the joints will be stronger than when using dry wood.
As far as sheathing for the barn--that's what the board and butten is invented for. Tongue and grove will also work.Shingles,overlaping horizontal boards--their is a huge amount of technics to choose from to use green lumber for siding.
Plus you got to remember that you don't want the barn airtight--don't want to trap the moisture.
Built right it works fine--I pulled down a 120 year old barn last year that an amish family built--if they did not mess up the foundation it probably would have lasted another 500 years.Sure did outlast 2 stickframe houses on that property lol.
Beams from it make great furniture--I used it on a gazebo and a wedding pergolla finished last week and a bunch of custom beds.


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## Jimmy24

This is the brand mill I ordered. Great mill for the $$$$. Builds saw to order. Also no blade lube required. Runs on rubber tires.

By the way, I would never buy a cir mill for any reason. More $$ more maintinence. More dangerous. I have worked at 3 different cir mills and they are PIA machines.

All you have to do is see what the large mills use. Band. Circulars have been out for years. Less waste, less down time, less sharpening.

Turner Mills - Home

Jimmy


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## VUnder

Use dry sticks between layers of green wood if stack drying. The band saw may be slow but is actually faster in the long run. Lumber is more dimensionally stable from a band saw. You can cut an actual size with it if you go slow, and it will be smooth enough to use without planing. Rough cut oak can be used on cabinets with a little attention from a palm sander.


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## BillT

A friend mine sawed for years using a Circular Saw Mill. For a while, back in the 90's they were making a pretty good living off of it. My neighbor still saws today with a Circular. He's been sawing continuously since the 70's. He bought a Band Saw once, didn't like it and sold it. They also saw with good 'ol 6-71 Detroit Diesels. He bought somekind of newer diesel a few years back (foreign I beleive, also computerized) and I didn't like how it sounded (I'm an 'ol Detroit fan, lol). Sure enough, he sold that too and went back to the old time, non computerized Detroit. Although old time and not computerized though, it is a pretty efficient set up. It is an "Automatic" Saw Mill with a hand control that lets you pick what thickness you want. It drops off the Slabs that get chipped, and blows the Sawdust in a Pile. Nothing is wasted. He has diversified through the years and still makes a good living from it. 

If I were building a barn and had timber, I personally would haul it to the Mill to be sawed, then let it Air Dry some (as mentioned above), then build with it. The only way I would buy my own saw would be if there was no Mill within reasonable distance.

Keep us posted.

Bill


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## BillT

HELIXX said:


> I have gone to Lowes and Home Depot for pressure treated pine, and since it's stored outdoors, it's also wet.


If the wood is wet from the weather, it is wet on the outside, not on the inside. Most PT Wood is made from SYP (Southern Yellow Pine), around this region anyway. It is Kiln Dried first, then pressure treated. The pressure treat system is also a wet process, which can also give it a wet look. I try to buy wood that is stored inside and not too wet from the weather. It will still shrink, but not as bad as Green Lumber will.

Bill


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## 1969cj-5

nj_m715 said:


> For us crafty/poor/cheap folk
> YouTube - chainsaw mill


Cool, but that guy needs to learn how to sharpen a Chain!


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## texican

I've had a woodmizer lt-15d18 for a little over a year now. Got two extensions, so I can cut beams or lumber out to 31.5'. Have enough beams and lumber cut already to build the next home, and with last summers drought, have enough trees to build a couple more, if I ever get time to spend on the mill. I got a diesel engine on the mill, because I can store diesel for long terms, and my tractor and truck also use diesel.

I flirted with the idea of a circular mill and a swingmill, but knew I would have need of lots of 1x material, and some very wide boards. I'm cutting 18 and 20" boards regularly. Figured I could cut every piece of wood in the new home, and if necessary, sell the mill and lose less than 20% of the purchase price...

From a survivalist standpoint, a swingmill (Lucas, Brand X, etc.) might be the way to go, as you can resharpen the blades quickly, on site. Friend up in MT has a Brand X and he's only had to get one blade repointed, after hitting a spike. A handful of extra swingmill blades, and a fuel source and you could cut forever. With my diesel mill, my only limitation (outside of how much diesel I have stored) is how many blades do I own, and how many times I can sharpen them (I'm not set up for that!).


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## turkeydog

Paint the ends of you lumber and dry naturally in the open, stacked off the ground. good enough for a rough barn or shelter. painting the ends of the boards/logs prevents the moisture from drying out one end or the other, which is what causes warping. filling in the moisture carrying vessels in the ends allows the board/logs to dry evenly through out insteand of at the ends first.....ever notice lumber at the hardware stores that has coated or stained ends???? now you know why. wood you buy that has been planed and precut already has this stain/paint cut off, so you never see it unless you see wood in the yard.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

I have no problem using green wood at all.
I DO NOT let it dry after cut
Cut it use it if I let it dry a lot warps and is not useable.
I find that invariably I seem to have the pieces dry true 
because in all the handling they get turned end for end and trade sides up just by random movement.
A cheap dado head for large ship laps is worth gold.


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