# Cornbread



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

After purchasing, packaging, and stocking several hundred pounds of corn for my preps, I fineally got around to scooping up several coffee cans full and making some cornbread. It was a trip to the past, it came out the way I remember it tasting from my childhood, I could make a meal of just that cornbread alone.

I dont know what they do with the corn now-a-days but I will never buy cornmeal from the store again. 

Does anyone know what they do the corn or to the meal to make it taste so nasty, the way it does now.


----------



## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

how did you make corn meal?


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Your corn*

I am interested in corn as a prep, due to a wheat and gluten allergy in my family. I am also interested in corn as a prep because of all the GMO corn out there.

I wonder what kind of corn you purchased? Who knew there were so many kinds of corn? Not me! Because of the GMOs, I know that popcorn and blue corn are not yet GMO. Blue corn is one of the highest in protein and makes good corn flour. Popcorn can be ground and made into corn meal as well as popped.

I have purchased cornmeal that was full of bugs when I got it home. I always keep cornmeal in the refrigerator. I am concerned about the potential of corn being buggy also, and try to take extreme caution with it.

In addition to using corn for cornmeal which can then be made into cornmeal, I am interested in learning to nixtamelizing it to make tortillas and posole.

I wonder if anyone has any experience with this? I understanding that the special lime used in this process actually makes the corn more nutrtionally nutritious.

Also, are you willing to share your cornbread recipe?


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

weedygarden,

As for the cornbread recipe, have never used one, I am a dumper:

I start with the cornmeal, add baking soda & salt, oil and egg as appropriate for the quantity of cornmeal. I then mix with water enough to make the batter pourable and bake at 350 until done.

As for the kind of corn purchased, Clean feed corn from a trusted feed store. I emailed the supplier I use for some other grains & beans and was informed that they, "Pleasant Hill Grain" along with most other suppliers, didn't test for Aflatoxin, which is the big concern with human consumption. Since they didnt test for it I figured may as well use feed corn.

As for making "Pizole, Pozole??" I have posted instructions in another thread

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f36/whole-corn-storage-questions-7838/

Regular "Pickling Lime" from the canning section of grocery stores is what is used.

I would be surprised if there were any non GMO corn available anymore north of the border and it is quickly dissapearing south of the border due to unintentional cross pollinating.

partdeux,

I have a Wonder Mill Jr, makes good cornmeal, flour, .....


----------



## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

So you used feed corn, like you'd feed to animals?

Also- the popcorn you said could be ground- would one grind it before or after popping it? (Man I hope that's not a really stupid question.)


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Yes, I am one of those crazies that consume animal feed(and think it is good). When I was a teenager, we would use the corn that came out of the same wagon as went to the Coop to be sold as feed. 

When I learned that most-if not all corn sold/used for human consumption wasn't tested for Aflatoxin "unless their is cause", I decieded that I would use it. If the corn is going to be limed, the lime will break down the toxins anyway, rendering it safe. If it is going to be ground into cornmeal it seems to be a pretty even shot with the corn sold for human consumption.

If someone demonstrates to me there is an appreciable risk in eating it I will reevaluate my decision, but until then, it makes pretty good cornbread.

As for the popcorn, that would be before popping, its not a stupid question, In times past popped corn would sometimes be served with sugar and milk for breakfast-like modern breakfast cereals. I haven't gotten around to trying it yet, but it is on the list.


----------



## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Since the mold Aspirgillis (sp) must be present to produce aflatoxin, all one has to do is LOOK at the corn kernels to see if they are infected. According to the articles I just googles on the stuff, it the corn has less than 13% moisture the mold absolutely cannot grow. Hence, it's not really necessary to test all the corn for it unless one can see the mold is in/on the corn. I have no problems buying and eating grains from my feed store, but I know they do not use/handle GM grains. Home ground corn always tastes better as it's fresher and the natural oil is still sweet. I love that sweet smell when I empty corn from the bags into the cans in my feed room.


----------



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Davarm said:


> weedygarden,
> 
> As for the cornbread recipe, have never used one, I am a dumper:
> 
> ...


I posted on that thread, with very similar information!


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

weedygarden

I have purchased cornmeal that was full of bugs when I got it home. I always keep cornmeal in the refrigerator. I am concerned about the potential of corn being buggy also, and try to take extreme caution with it.

_________________________________________________

I also have had problems with bugs in flour, cornmeal, grits, and other hot cereals. I dont have the refrigerator space to store all the stuff in my cold box so I put the items(packaging included) in a ziplock bag immediately upon bringing it into the house. It has solved that problem.


----------



## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Old Mill of Guilford all-natural grits, corn meals, flours and mixes

We are lucky, my hushand has to drive by the ol mill once or twice a week.  (I agree, the store stuff is ... )

The Old Mill of Guilford was founded in North Carolina on Beaver Creek in 1767 to grind grain for the early settlers of what is now Guilford County. Today, the mill continues to produce all-natural, stone-ground, whole grain foods, just as it has for over 250 years.


----------



## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

so just to clarify...feed store - cracked corn for chickens or other livestock is or is not the same as 'food grade' corn? I can get that stuff pretty cheap. Don't know if I can just drive up to the local grain elevator, honk my horn and have them dump a couple of bushels of corn in my pickup or what??? Ticks me off that I don't know these things. 

Your cornbread sounds good, by the way.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I wouldn't buy the cracked corn, whole kernel feed corn is what I buy. It is usually sold in 50 pound bags. I cant find a difference in the quality of feed corn but I would shy away from corn labeled as "Wildlife Corn", I have had bad experiences with that around here(Texas).

If you deciede to buy feed corn, I would get a single bag and check it for quality before trusting the source. If it has moldy kernels, a large number of cracked kernels, or a dusty residue which could be mold, look for another vendor.

As I am typing this I am experimenting with making a cornbread dressing mix that I can vacuum seal and put in my stores. It will be about another 15 to 20minutes till the first batch comes out of the oven. I dehydrated the leftover cornbread and ran it through the food processor, added some whole wheat bread crumbs prepared the same way, some dehydrated celery and onions, dehydrated eggs, a little chicken bullion and sage. Added enough water to rehydrate, let it set, mixed and then poped it into the oven. Smells really good so far.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Just sat down with a bowl of the cornbread dressing, the only thing that would have made it better was adding a little more salt,(was unsure how much to add due to chicken bullion) then a spoon full of turkey gravy on top. The dehydrated celery is a bit chewey but I guess I could boil it for a while before adding it to the batter.

I think I have another winner here.


----------



## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

Well heck if I can get whole feed corn, that's easy! I rarely make cornbread even though my family likes it. Have never even attempted to grind my own grains. Can you buy wheat and oats that way too?


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Wheat yes, Oats no.

Wheat, just about the same guidlines apply although unless you live in a wheat growing area, the soft white wheat may be the only thing available. It is best used for pastry flour and cereals. If your looking for the higher protien wheat, you may have trouble finding that.

Oats, you can easily find oats in just about any feed store but getting the hull off the grote is not a simple process. I have heard that it is possible to make a device that can be mounted on a grain mill or food grinder that will "roll" the hull off but for all the trouble and expense that seemed to be, I just purchase the generic "Old Fashioned" rolled oats for $1.99 for a 2 lb-10oz box. You can get from 8-10 boxes into a five gallon bucket. One of these days I will get around to trying to make the hulling device but for now have more pressing things to do.

There is a veriety of oat that can be grown that are hull-less and can be grown in most areas, as the name implies, dont have hulls. The yield is only a fraction of traditional oat verieties and the seed is quite expensive so havent gotten around to tryig that one either. Just do a search on " Hull-less" or "naked" oats(sometimes a search on naked oats may give a few surprises so dont be offended if you have to weed through a few unwanted hits) and you will get a number of hits.


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

this will be a long post, but it is a copy of an article i wrote for backwoodsman, detailing ways to make hominy from scratch using various types of lime, wood ash, or lye. the hominy i make is made from dent feed corn from the local feed store, and tastes just like it ''should'. Hominy (or posole) is ground to make nixtamil. Nixtamil can be dried for storage, as can whole posole. Remember 'corn nuts'? i think those were made from posole, deep fried for crunch. They taste like parched corn.
Anyway, I will post the article/info in the recipe area of the forum as well as here. LONG POST WARNING!


FROM ANIMAL FEED TO PEOPLE FOOD: HOW TO MAKE HOMINY
Hominy is an interesting food. It is easily made from dry corn, producing a cheap, filling, and tasty dish that has fed common folks since colonial days. Hominy grits are chopped hominy; the whole kernel type can be found canned in some grocery stores and the dried hominy (posole) can be ordered on the internet as well. But it is cheaper and a lot more fun to make it yourself. So just how do you turn that dried corn into edible hominy? There are several ways, depending on what material you find available. I have made hominy from corn I shelled from corn ears sold for feeding squirrels, as well as animal feed corn purchased from the feed store. Dent corn or flint corn work equally well, as does white, yellow, or multi-colored corn. (Popcorn does not make hominy, though it can be ground for an acceptable corn meal.)

Now you may ask just why on earth anyone would mix lye, ashes or baking soda with corn. It sounds like an unappetizingly odd thing to eat and an awful lot of work just to make dinner. Simply put, treating the corn with lye or lime changes the corn’s chemistry in critical ways if you are depending on corn as a major food source, as our ancestors did. It takes the hull off the corn for faster cooking and for easier processing into a wider variety of edibles. (The variety keeps you from getting bored with eating corn.) But it also makes the niacin in corn more absorbable in the human body, an important way of preventing Pellagra (a malnutrition disease). It adds calcium to the corn. Finally, it alters the protein content of corn to make it a more complete protein. So there are good reasons both historically and scientifically for making hominy out of corn, as opposed to simply grinding it untreated, into corn meal. 

Hominy made with lye bought at the store is most common in my area. Be sure you get lye (sodium hydroxide), not drain cleaner, from the grocery, hardware or building supply store. Wash 2 quarts of shelled corn to get rid of dust and chaff. Put the corn in a non-reactive pot (I use my enamel canner) and add 8 quarts potable water and 2 ounces of purchased lye (about 8 – 9 teaspoons). Bring the pot to a boil and boil vigorously 30 minutes. Turn off heat and let stand 20 minutes longer. Drain hominy and rinse well using hot water. 

Work the hominy (rub it) with your hands, until skins and the little dark tips at the point of the corn are gone. Float them away in the rinsing water.
Drain the hominy, rinse out the pot and put the corn back in. Add water to cover plus one inch and bring to a boil. Boil 5 min. Change to fresh water and repeat the 5 minute boiling cycle 4 more times.
At this point you may cook and eat it, freeze it, can it or dehydrate it. This recipe makes 6 quarts or so of hominy (which amount fits my canner per- fectly for canning). 

You can make your own lye water by dripping rain water (distilled for those with no rain catching system) through hardwood ashes. You might have trouble finding a barrel to make the drip system. Don’t worry, plastic pails that stack work just as well. (Better yet if you can get the baker at the local grocery store to give you a couple for free.) Proceed to make lye water in the usual manner and remember, if it not strong enough to suit you or to float the egg, you can simply run the weak lye water through 
another pail of fresh ashes to make it stronger, or boil it down to concentrate it.

To use the lye water to make hominy, put 2 gallons of lye water, 2 gallons of dry corn, and 2 additional gallons of plain potable water in a large non-reactive pot (that enamel canner works just fine!). Simmer until the corn kernel skins start to slip off. Drain, rinse and rub the corn through 4 cycles to get the lye out. Boil in the cleaned pot in water to cover until the skins finish coming off completely and the hominy rises top of the water. Scoop the hominy out and cook it as desired.

You can even skip the lye making step and make hominy with wood ash directly. Put two double handfuls of clean ashes (meaning you did not burn anything but just the wood) from oak, maple or poplar wood fires into 2 to 3 quarts of clean water. Boil for 1 hour, and then let it set all night for the ashes to settle. In the morning, boil dried corn in the water (strained if you like) until the skins come off and the corn color brightens, about 1-2 hours). Rinse and rub in 3 changes of water. Use the fresh hominy right away or preserve for later.

Some recipes use lime instead of lye to treat the corn. You can use either pickling lime (also called mason’s, builders, or hydrated lime) which is calcium hydroxide, or you can use quick lime which is calcium oxide. Either one works, they just are used slightly differently. 

To use calcium hydroxide, place 2 quarts of potable water in a large (4 quart) non-reactive pot. Put on the stove on high heat. As it begins to simmer, stir in 2 tablespoons of the lime with a wood spoon. When it is totally dissolved, add 1 quart of washed dry corn. Discard any kernels that float. When the pot begins to boil, lower heat to a simmer, and simmer 2 minutes. Turn off the heat, cover the pot and soak the corn 4 hours to overnight. Check it, and when the corn skins start to slip, drain the corn into a colander and put it under running water. Work and rub the corn with your hands to remove skins, and gelatinous slime. When the corn is clean, there will only remain a small speck at the corn tip. That is the germ, it can stay or not as you like. Boil the hominy in clean water until it is as done as you like. 

If your lime is calcium oxide, you use it the same way except that you do not heat the pot. You add the lime to cold water, and it will start to bubble. Stir to dissolve it completely. When the bubbling stops, add the corn, and then put the pot on the fire. Heat, soak, and rinse it as above. 

If you want a non-corrosive way to make hominy (perhaps your toddler gets into everything and feeds it to the family dog to boot) you can use baking soda instead of lye or lime. It takes longer, but is perfectly tasty just the same. 

Shell out 1 quart of field corn, and wash it to get rid of dirt, dust, and chaff. 
Put the corn in a large non-reactive (enamel or stainless steel) pot with 2 quarts of water and 2 tablespoons of baking soda. Soak it overnight.
The next day, put the whole pot on the fire, and bring to a boil. Lower heat and simmer 3 hours. Drain, replace the water with cold water and rub the corn hulls off. Drain off the water and hulls, replace with more cold water. Bring to a boil, and simmer only 1 hour this time. Drain, put in cold water and rub off more corn hulls. Repeat the simmer-wash cycle until all the corn is free of hulls. Drain, cook in fresh water until done to suit. 

Hominy can be eaten many ways depending on your whim. Boiled until soft, salted and buttered is a good way to start. Then you can try cooking it in a stew with celery, onions, kidney beans, and ground beef; adding it to chili (corn and beans make a complete protein); simmered with diced pork, garlic, onions, chili powder and oregano; or maybe with crumbled cooked bacon, some onions sautéed in the bacon fat, tomato soup thinned a bit with water and seasonings of choice. Lime-treated hominy is used in making masa (ground hominy) for corn tortillas and tamales. Recipes abound. 

If you made a little too much to eat at one time (or other family members do not like hominy) you can freeze the excess. But I find the texture suffers, so I prefer to can it or dehydrate it for storing. 

To can hominy, simmer it until the kernels are soft, then pack it hot in hot jars leaving 1 inch head space. Add 1 tsp salt per quart, or 1/2 tsp salt per pint. Add cooking liquid leaving 1/2 inch headspace. Process at 10 pounds pressure in a pressure canner. Process pints 60 minutes and quarts 70 minutes. 

To dehydrate hominy, I use a dehydrator (to compensate for a very humid climate). I spread cooked hominy evenly on the trays, and dry it at 140 to 150 degrees Fahrenheit, until it is as dry as dry beans (it will break when hit with a hammer). Break a piece open and make sure it is dried throughout. The dried form, sold as posole goes for $3 to $5 a pound, and keeps well for several years if kept dry. To use it just simmer it until soft again. 

Autumn being the season of dried field corn, I get a hankering for hominy about this time of year. It has been a popular food since colonial days. Made from any dent or flint corn, of any color, it has provided cheap, tasty and filling meals for generations of hungry hard working folks. So shell some corn, and before you grind it into cornmeal, why not set some aside for hominy? 

I guess it fit after all....


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Thank you for that article, I have been "liming" corn for quite awhile and have learned the pocess trial and error, its nice to learn from someone who has been doing it for quite a bit longer than I have.

I have a bag of hydrated lime I bought when I first started making hominy but since I didn't know if there were any unwanted by products in the bag with it, so decieded to use "Picling Lime" from the grocery store instead. Have used lye in the past(as a kid) but I prefer the taste of limed corn. The use of baking soda is good to know-have wondered if it could be used since it is an alkali also. 

I think, for me, the nugget from this article is using the wood ash directly to make the hominy. I remember my great grandmother making it as a young child and that could be the way she did it. Wish my memory was better but that was almost 50 years ago.

If you have no objection I would like to put a copy this post in an archive I am putting together for daughters to use if/when I am no longer around.

I feel that preserving and using the "old knowledge" is going to be very important in the future.


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

Davarm said:


> Thank you for that article, I have been "liming" corn for quite awhile and have learned the pocess trial and error, its nice to learn from someone who has been doing it for quite a bit longer than I have.
> 
> I have a bag of hydrated lime I bought when I first started making hominy but since I didn't know if there were any unwanted by products in the bag with it, so decieded to use "Picling Lime" from the grocery store instead. Have used lye in the past(as a kid) but I prefer the taste of limed corn. The use of baking soda is good to know-have wondered if it could be used since it is an alkali also.
> 
> ...


No problem...the whole reason I write these things is hoping someone else will find them useful some day. Hate to see the old ways/know-how lost. Since I now have a fireplace as a source for clean ash I can try the ash technique soon. I'll post how it turns out - I got the recipe from a Native American person.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Thank you, I will pass the info to as many people as will accept it.


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

speaking of things that taste bad compared to in the past, how about chicken. it tastes crappy now, often it tastes of chemicals. 
i usually end up soaking my 'fryers' in strong salt water for 3-4 hrs before cooking it. you should SEE the blood & other 'stuff' that comes out of it. Helps the taste some.


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

It has been a long time since I have eaten poultry that I raised, about 35 years, and I dont rememer much bout it except that it was good. I dont enjoy it as much as I did as a kid but cant nail that down to a difference in taste.

On another note though, when I would go deer hunting with my grandfather, his best hunting buddy worked someplace that processed chickens, statedthat after the birds were dressed and cleanedup, they would dip/soak them in some kind of bath to inhibit bacterial growthand would aspray some kind of dissenfectant on them if they started smelling "off", could be where the taste comes from. He never ate chicken and said if you ever saw them being processed, you would not either. 

I guess the only thing certain is that everything will continue to change.


----------



## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

emilysometimes said:


> Also- the popcorn you said could be ground- would one grind it before or after popping it? (Man I hope that's not a really stupid question.)


The only stupid question is one not asked.


----------



## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

kappydell said:


> this will be a long post, but it is a copy of an article i wrote for backwoodsman, detailing ways to make hominy from scratch using various types of lime, wood ash, or lye. the hominy i make is made from dent feed corn from the local feed store, and tastes just like it ''should'. Hominy (or posole) is ground to make nixtamil. Nixtamil can be dried for storage, as can whole posole. Remember 'corn nuts'? i think those were made from posole, deep fried for crunch. They taste like parched corn.
> Anyway, I will post the article/info in the recipe area of the forum as well as here. LONG POST WARNING


I cut your post down so I could reply to you properly without taking up room.  That was an incredible article to read. Thank you for providing it! I am going to print it out and will be sticking it in my Prepping binder. I would love to try it out but I do have a question about the lye.

I've never worked with lye. I'd love to start making soap and hominy using lye but I get nervous with chemicals. Melthing my face off just doesn't sit right with me. Isn't lye corrosive enough to need gloves? Pardon my eyes but I didn't see anything about wearing protection so I just wanted to check with you.

Thanks for any info.!


----------



## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

kappydell said:


> speaking of things that taste bad compared to in the past, how about chicken. it tastes crappy now, often it tastes of chemicals.
> i usually end up soaking my 'fryers' in strong salt water for 3-4 hrs before cooking it. you should SEE the blood & other 'stuff' that comes out of it. Helps the taste some.


:sssh: That is because they are. 

It is just not "natural" to raise a (day old) chick to fryer in just six weeks.


----------



## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

salekdarling, I have never had a problem, knowing lye is corrosive. When adding it to any water, don't stand with your face over the pot, and if you get some on your hands just rinse them off immediately. Many sources do mention eye protection and rubber gloves, but I am exceedingly careful about splashing lye about and keep wash facilities handy including for eyes. You make a good point...maybe I will get myself some protective goggles, anyway. I would not mind a lye burn scar on the hands, but the eyes are kinda special. Thanks for pointing this out!!


----------



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

kappydell said:


> speaking of things that taste bad compared to in the past, how about chicken. it tastes crappy now, often it tastes of chemicals.
> i usually end up soaking my 'fryers' in strong salt water for 3-4 hrs before cooking it. you should SEE the blood & other 'stuff' that comes out of it. Helps the taste some.


I have thought about this post every time I have eaten chicken since you posted it. You know, you are right. I guess I hadn't noticed it or paid that much attention because in the past years we very rarely eat "just plain chicken" I pretty much always doctor it up with spiced up bread crumbs, cumin and chili powder, basil and garlic and sometimes lemon rind, orange rind and ginger, all of which have pretty distinct and strong flavors.

Through all that I guess I never noticed the basic taste of the bird. I may have started cooking it with alot of flavorings and spices to make up for the lack of taste, wish I could remember .


----------

