# Do we have any actual tax eperts, CPAs?



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I have a question on taxes that has been bouncing around with my past few returns regarding child deductions. I am getting a lot of conflicting info on the interwebs on the answers.

The last CPA I talked to said it was a gray area and claim the max to see what happens, not sure I like that answer. :dunno:


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I doubt that your question is a grey area. It isn't smart to claim a larger deduction than you can prove. This might help:

https://www.irs.gov/uac/ten-things-to-know-about-the-child-and-dependent-care-credit


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Its not so much about proving. Long story short, 2 kids with my ex. I claim one unsing the correct form. She was claiming the other. She did not work this tax year and said she will let her boyfriend claim the child. Big no-no since he is not related. CPA I talked to said claim both and first to get it in wins.

Basically trying to sort out if I really need the form 8332 if she isn't filing...


----------



## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You should be fine claiming them both. You're right. The boyfriend can't claim the child because he's not related to the child. You would need to be paying over 50% of their support in order to claim them as dependents.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

So the question comes down to support. I am paying the ordered child support and current on it, she does not work. Ergo in my mind, everything she uses to support them is from myself. 

Whatever he provides; shelter, power, food is out of the goodness of his own heart??? Can you really support (in a tax situation) a non-dependent in the eyes of the IRS?

Now, of course, I do not want to sound like the greedy parent here. I pay more than the order for things likes sports and school clubs and such. This would just get rolled into that account for the kids benefit vs him getting it and doing whatever with it. He may even give it to her, but it is still illegal.


----------



## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

I'd email the it's help line and ask them directly. And then keep a copy of that email with my tax records.


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

Jim1590 said:


> I have a question on taxes that has been bouncing around with my past few returns regarding child deductions. I am getting a lot of conflicting info on the interwebs on the answers.
> 
> The last CPA I talked to said it was a gray area and claim the max to see what happens, not sure I like that answer. :dunno:


 I'm not for the IRS but beleive it or not they can answer certain question like this on theri help line. Just don't give any personal info if you don't have to. Just ask your question as and see what they say. I called them a few years ago about a matter and gto a answer without saying who I am.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Yes, I will probably call them and see if they can get me the statute number that is in my favor (going to poke the bear when I do this).

Now that I am sure it is worth my time!

terri9630, they do not have a published email address to send questions to. Kind of behind the times if you ask me. I am also on a sellers forum for a very large online retail site that shares its name with a South American river. On there, it is mostly sellers helping sellers, but the website has mods that help with policies. It comes down to sellers being able to have a vast knowledgebase. To bad the IRS couldn't do something like that!


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Jim1590 said:


> Basically trying to sort out if I really need the form 8332 if she isn't filing...


Whether she's filing or not, she would need to complete the 8332 and give it to you for you to file. Once you have that form (and assuming you meet the eligibility criteria which sounds like you do from child support), you can then claim that child fully.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

ZoomZoom said:


> Whether she's filing or not, she would need to complete the 8332 and give it to you for you to file. Once you have that form (and assuming you meet the eligibility criteria which sounds like you do from child support), you can then claim that child fully.


Thats what I am afraid of. She will give me one form for one of the two kids, but not the other one since she intends on having the BF claim one. I found some obscure info on the IRS website saying that if she does not file, or does not have to file because she earned less than 6k, I do not need it.

Sigh, gonna have to call them. I want to avoid wasting everyones time getting this adjudicated (the last thing family courts need is another case), but our plan will need some tweaking next year anyways, may just have to suck it up.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

And the automated system told me that questions about filing and dependents will only be answered during the tax filing season.

Sigh :brickwall:


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Jim1590 said:


> Thats what I am afraid of. She will give me one form for one of the two kids, but not the other one since she intends on having the BF claim one.


And how is the BF going to legally claim one of them?

Here's the form
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8332.pdf

It doesn't say anything about releasing of claim to a boyfriend...


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

ZoomZoom said:


> And how is the BF going to legally claim one of them?
> 
> Here's the form
> https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8332.pdf
> ...


Oh, I have the form.

She said HR Block said we can. Pretty sure she has done it before when she was working in previous years, but just enough to get by. Not earn any real $. Translation she is flying under the radar. My claiming will probably set off an audit for this guy going back a few years. Too bad, he is a decent bloke.


----------



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Jim1590 said:


> Oh, I have the form.
> 
> She said HR Block said we can. Pretty sure she has done it before when she was working in previous years, but just enough to get by. Not earn any real $. Translation she is flying under the radar. My claiming will probably set off an audit for this guy going back a few years. Too bad, he is a decent bloke.


If he was really a "decent bloke" he would not be claiming YOUR child even if she said it was okay.

This is what I read on the form posted above...

A child is treated as a qualifying child or
a qualifying relative of the noncustodial
parent if all of the following apply.
1. The child received over half of his or
her support for the year from one or both
of the parents (see the 
Exception 
below).
*Public assistance payments, such as
Temporary Assistance for Needy Families
(TANF), are not support provided by the
parents*


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

OK, the IRS has a question tree that will tell you if you can claim the child. I filled it out a few times, changing the variables:

Me claiming older kid where she signs 8332.
IRS says yes I can claim

Me claiming younger kid where she does not sign 8332. I pay more than 50% of the support (money / income to the family, BF ain't family, he is a roommate at best) and child lives less than 50% of the year with me.
IRS says I can claim, but someone else is able to claim (mom) so I may only claim, if she does not file -OR- only files to recoup federal tax paid (think this means she earned less than 6k)

BF claiming younger kid where 8332 does not apply. BF (in his mind) pays more than 50% of the support (shelter, power, etc... she gets SNAP for food) and child lives more than 50% with him
IRS says BF can claim, but someone else is able to claim (mom or dad) so he may only claim if neither of us file.

Whew. So I would say scenario 1 allows me to claim because she has been unemployeed. Thus scenario 2 will not allow him to claim, because the rightful claimor was decided in scenario 1. Maybe I should just send her attorney a letter saying my intentions and he can risk an audit if he so chooses. Sometimes pro-se sucks!


----------



## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

The divorce decree allows her to have a shack up boyfriend? This may be a nonissue if it doesn't.


----------



## Mortblanc (Apr 20, 2013)

I was a tax preparer for H&R for years.

The old "first claimed first paid" move will get you fined and penalized if you do not have custody of the child.

One can claim a minor as a dependent if the person lives in their house and they pay % of the support, so the BF is covered, even if not "related".

Even if the wife does not work she should file. With zero income and all the credits available she will get money back. 

She must list child support as income. If your allocated support payments do not put her over the federal income reporting threshold you are probably not paying enough support anyway!

The tax codes change each year and if your "accountant" friend does not know the answer to your question he is courting disaster since the government now puts tax preparers in jail for badly filed returns.

You might want to check with someone that knows what the current laws state and is properly trained. 

Yes, they will expect money in return for the time they spent in the classroom and their professional services. You get what you pay for, and this is taxes, which TPTB do not consider a joke.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

Mortblanc said:


> I was a tax preparer for H&R for years.
> 
> The old "first claimed first paid" move will get you fined and penalized if you do not have custody of the child.
> 
> ...


Sorry but very little of this rings true.

Child support is NOT reportable taxable income for the person recieving the money. It comes out of the payors gross pay after taxes are paid on it. So it is already taxed. However, it is not deductible. Alimony is deductible on the payors side and reported on the payees side.

Reportable income for federal is around 10 grand. But your rational that I would not be paying enough if paying less than the 10k does not ring true. I have put into place support orders in my various work history for guys paying less than 2000 a year to the non-working mom.

How exactly would the non-working ex-wife get back a deduction? Without working, the tax responsibility is 0. The Child Tax credit is non-refundible, it is deductible. So all it would do is lower any obligation she has to 0.

Above, I posted about the question breakout on the IRS web site. I am able to claim and so is the boyfriend. However, I have the priority between myself and the mother. If I opt out, he is then able to attempt to claim.

No offense, but I went to HR Block once. They screwed up my taxes.

Here is a another source, TurboTax:



> Qualifying Child
> 
> In addition to the qualifications above, to claim an exemption for your child, you must be able to answer "yes" to all of the following questions.
> 
> ...


There are exceptions for the residency, but not the relations

Interesting from Publication 501 (2016) regarding Head of Household


> Example 4-girlfriend's child.
> 
> The facts are the same as in Example 3 except your girlfriend's 10-year-old son also lived with you all year. He isn't your qualifying child and, because he is your girlfriend's qualifying child, he isn't your qualifying relative (see Not a Qualifying Child Test , later). As a result, he isn't your qualifying person for head of household purposes.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> The divorce decree allows her to have a shack up boyfriend? This may be a nonissue if it doesn't.


By the time we got to the decree stage, she was evicted from her apartment secondary mismanagement of funds and moved in with this guy. It took 2 years from seperation to intial decree. She kept dragging her feet over insane issues.

I was not going to be the guy that ripped the kids out of another home because their mom and I had issues. That and the judge didn't give a hoot about it. I am in a mommy rules state. Heck I know of one instance that has the mom sleeping on a roll out in the same room as her teen sons and judge says I'll allow it. Another guy I know had to fight tooth and nail to get custody while the mom was in jail for dealing drugs.

As for my end, the kids never knew their step mom was dating me until we got engaged. Zero PDA from us in front of them until we tied the knot (with my 2 best men in their cute little suits) and she moved in. She never even spent the night when my kids were over.


----------



## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

OK, to wrap this all up... I was able to get some paid for advice, something I wished to avoid, but alas.

He may claim the child as a qualifying relative but not as a qualifying child. Only requirement for a QR is that the child is not yours and lives in your house greater than 6 months of the year. This is a new rule.

As this is a QR and not a QC, the Child Tax Credit and Head of Household are not eligible to this guy. It is a standard deduction only, same as you would claim for a non-working spouse.

Hope this helps someone in the future


----------

