# GOT GOLD? Why do you need it?



## watchman220

Why are so many people rushing to buy GOLD??? And what do we know about GOLD Futures? No one can tell the future but we can tell trends.

If you are looking to buy gold to secure your assets so you can hold value somewhere, then check this out.

You Need To Read This Before You Buy GOLD from anyone!!


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## pdx210

don't bet the farm on any one thing!

you can't, drink, eat gold and it sure as hell wont keep you cold at night. there have been plenty of times where gold hasn't hedged against anything. If you purchased gold at the peak in 1979 and held it today you've lost money relative to inflation.


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## saintsfanbrian

I wouldn't want gold to keep me cold but I might be able to trade it for something to make me warm.


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## pdx210

LOL....yeah guess i should proof read before i post


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## hardrock

*Gold*

Would think a box (50) .22 shells, a quart of green beans, a blanket,or a good anything would be of much more value. :scratch


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## nj_m715

Sure they would, but you can't toss them in your pocket and away fast if needed. I think a bit of everything helps to make you well rounded.


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## NotSoFast

I'm starting with silver, junk silver coins to be more specific. They will be more tradeable for small purchases than gold will. And nickels too. They are retaining their value and sure to go up even if only for the metal content.


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## sailaway

I think gold and silver are good to barter with if you don't want to work.:scratch


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## NotSoFast

sailaway said:


> I think gold and silver are good to barter with if you don't want to work.:scratch


Gold and silver are just tools to obtain the items you don't have but need or want. While there are other means, like working for someone in trade for what you want, or bartering other goods, gold and silver are easier to carry and a more common means of trade, one that has gone back to the beginnings of history.


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## SurvivorSam

Yes, I have often heard that when the SHTF - having a stock of items to barter is the way to go!

I plan to have a little bit of cash tucked away - but am firmly thinking of what items to store up for that purpose... i.e. extra food, ammo tools etc.


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## mosquitomountainman

NotSoFast said:


> Gold and silver are just tools to obtain the items you don't have but need or want. While there are other means, like working for someone in trade for what you want, or bartering other goods, gold and silver are easier to carry and a more common means of trade, one that has gone back to the beginnings of history.


Good points! Obviously meeting our daily needs are most important but gold/silver have universal value as a type of currency no matter when or where they are used. Precious metals are like everything else - they must be part of a balanced plan. Barter would no doubt play a part in a collapsed economy but there may be times when you simply have nothing to barter that the other person wants. Or you may be travelling and don't have time or space to carry barter goods or spend time trading labor. Precious metals fill this gap rather nicely. Just keep it in balance.


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## nj_m715

I'm a firm believer in keeping some cash on hand. It can come in handy even it if isn't the end of the world. Something like the blackout lasting several days like the great north east b/o or just a bad storm could leave you with only the $25 bucks in your pocket.

I'm also concerned about the potential for the dollar to drop and I feel metal prices will rise at the same time. Pre '82 pennies and current production nickles are worth their weight (or more) in metal value. It might be a little crazy, but I would rather have 1 or 2 thousand dollars in nickels or pennies in my safe than a few green bills that could end up with the same value as toilet paper.

Right now an old penny is worth .02 cents and a nickel is worth 5.5 cents just for the metal.
Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth?
A $50 bill may not be worth the paper it's printed on, if things get real ugly. I think stocking my spare cash in nickels is a safe easy hedge against inflation. Sorting through boxes of pennies might not be worth your time, but nickels are easy, just a get a couple $100 boxes from the bank and drop'em in the safe. It's sort of like the poorman's silver coins and they're fire proof too.

Any thoughts or comments?


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## JeepHammer

You mean something like these?










Or these?










Or the boxes and boxes of silver coins I've been collecting since I was a kid?

I saw Ronnie Rayguns drive gold prices through the roof, I started buying gold when it came up at the 'Right' price, I have several waiting for the next Republican Reactionary President to screw the economy up,
So now gold I purchase for $50 an ounce is worth up to $1,300 and I HAVE been selling!

Silver came to me under 50¢ an ounce, so I purchased 1,000 ounces,
And the coins... I have next to nothing in them but they are paying me back now!
People said I was crazy for saving those old silver coins when the faces were worn down, scratched, bent, ect...
Now they are worth about $13 an ounce (and that's TROY ounce, not standard US ounces)

I used to use them a lot when I silver soldered, they were MUCH cheaper than the Silver rods,
Now I sell them off when I want a little extra money.
Silver is about $18.30/Troy Ounce today... If you have any around to sell...

Just sold three gold coins like the one above to some collage kid that thinks gold is going to increase another 100% from right now,
(Seems his 'Teacher' is a religious 'End of the world' type and is Convincing him that gold is going to skyrocket to twice what it is today!)

He paid $1,230 an ounce, (yesterday's 'Spot' price) I paid $220 an ounce when I purchased them... 
I'd say it was a good investment to sit on for 10 years!


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## jehowe

I think that having some 'portable wealth' in the form of gold or silver make sense if you currently have them, or have the resources to acquire some. In coin form, they really don't take a lot of space or weight and are visually easy to discriminate.

That said, in a barter driven economy, be prepared for the potential of losing a lot of former value in the presence of scarcity for goods.


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## lotsoflead

I don't believe in having gold, in a SHTF situation, it will be hard or unsafe to trade or barter with because of it's worth. junk silver will be the best, pre 64 silver dimes, quarters. even silver eagles could be cut in pieces to trade with. 
Gold will be for the very rich to grab up all the land they can.


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## HozayBuck

This subject comes up all the time and for me the answer never changes...

As old LL Bean told it..after the whatever..man walks into a farm yard and says to the farmer "see this $600.00 Krugerrand? Farmer says yep, see that $600.00 chicken?

Anything can have value, but it's value has to be the same too both party's or it's not worth hauling around..

To me in a SHTF situation a brick of 22 ammo would be worth more to me then your gold coin... but if I have 100 K rounds of 22 ammo then it might be something I'd do, but would you? a brick for an OZ of gold? 

I would not try to screw a hungry person but how many would? If a person is hungry then they are desperate , better to give them some food and send them on their way , sometimes ya gotta do the right thing..

So, for me, I'll just prep as I always have, I can buy a lot of preps for the current cost of one oz of gold... for 10 ozs I can be ready for most anything..

I know folks who bought gold in 1980 when it was at $600.00 and watched it drop to 300.00 soon after... of course if they sat on it and sold now they would break even...30 years of lost interest can add up...

Here's an example ... right now, Aimsurplus has new Wolf 308 ammo for about $240.00 a thou...even with shipping you can buy 5 K rounds for an oz of gold!

Remember the folks talking so much about buying gold aren't buying, they are selling!


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## JeepHammer

What's that brick of ammo worth when you want something like a pump handle silver soldered back together?

Need silver for your colloidal water filter?

Need some bullets cast from lead?

Need some gold for a tooth cap?

------------------------

Besides, were are a LONG WAY from a total collapse, where money would be worthless.
Depressions, natural disaster, chemical disaster, ect. gold and silver will ALWAYS be worth something.

What I do recommend is you buy smaller coins than the one ounce coils of gold,
It's hard to separate pieces of a coin, most people want to trade for the entire coin, so smaller coins would be a better way to trade, and they are made VERY small, just a gram or two.

I consider anything that has MONETARY currency value a good thing.
Something that isn't tied directly to the dollar is a good idea.

Gold has gone WAY up, which is good for anyone that has been sitting on it,
Same with silver. I've made a tidy amount so far, and If it goes up even more, I stand to make a great deal.

Right now, the most valuable things I have are old muscle cars, they are selling for outrageous amounts, and my time in restoring them has been worth about $100 an hour...
The market goes up and down, but those old cars that have been sitting around in our back field at the farm are bringing up to $150,000 when restored... And most were dumped there years back, no investment at all in them prior to refurbish and sale.

Copper, brass, sliver, aluminum, gold, lead, steel, iron, ect. will all have uses DIRECTLY for you if you have the skills to work with them.
Casting parts from things like bullets to valves isn't difficult to learn, and will make you money VERY QUICKLY in a really beat down world...
Right now, I make a lot of parts for old farm machinery, and that pays VERY well, around $75 a hour when I'm working.

A Re-Built Magneto for an historic tractor usually runs me around $100 in parts, but sells for around $600 (Average), some are much more,
And sale of parts via internet makes even more...
Generators and starters are a little less, but they still average about $50 an hour when you have the work...

I can cast the parts I don't have and can't get, and I can cast/machine many more parts if I need to, but there often isn't any reason to if I can buy the parts for cheap...
In the event of a collapse, I could cast more types of parts since I have the stuff to cast/machine needed parts...

So now the saying goes,
Farmer, 
"How much is that brush holder for my generator is worth?",

Metal Worker, 
"6 of those $600 chickens..."

Gold isn't the only 'Precious' metal!


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## Magus

bingo!dead on target.


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## biffula

*Gold*

I've often wondered why people get the gold bug. If you're speculating and then want to sell when the price gets high, that's one thing. But if your buying for a shtf scenario, then why bother? When it gets to bartering time, I wont take gold in trade. I'm going to have goods that I will trade for other goods that I can use, but dont currently have. And what are you going to do with a 1 oz. gold coin? It'll be worth too much to buy most things. And if no one wants to trade in gold, it may end up worthless. Not me, I have a small hoard or silver coins. Much more practical and it didnt break me to buy them. Things that people need and want will get you more than gold when the shtf. So good luck gold bugs, but count me out. You're gold will be worthless to me when the time comes. I wont be making change for your gold coins. lol


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## mosquitomountainman

Precious metals have their place like everything else. Just don't go to extremes on them unless you have every other need for yourself taken care of. It's entirely possible you'll want to trade with someone who doesn't need your goods or labor. PM's may be the only thing he's interested in. They key is to have your physical needs covered. That gives you greater bargaining power in any deal. If you put all your preps in gold you could very well find yourself paying an ounce of gold for a loaf of bread. If you have all the food, protection, shelter, etc. you need then you may be the one getting the ounce of gold for the loaf of bread. Eventually things will stabilize unless we go to a true EOTWAWKI situation. In that case your gold could very well be worthless during your lifetime. But in most situations PM's will always have some value to someone. Just make sure your physical needs are met before you go overboard on acquiring PM's.

In the meantime, work on acquiring skills that will be valuable in any type of economy.


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## JeepHammer

Hello Biffula, glad to see someone new on the forum.

I have the same idea, but 'Complete Collapse' isn't very likely to happen.
What's much more likely is a gradual devaluation of paper money, like what's going on now with the dollar de-valuing against foreign currency and buying less when it comes to imports.

De-valued dollar makes foreign imports, and parts for US made products more expensive, and the de-values the dollar even more since the trade deficit gets larger with each purchase of anything foreign made.

The 'Easy' Way to turn that around is to buy US made products,
Buy QUALITY products, take care of them, and when you need to replace that product, buy US made again.

Our internal economy will keep the dollar valuable even if the rest of the world goes to crap...

I know I'm only one person, but I do not shop at Wal-Mart.
I'd rather pay $40 for a quality US made product than give $10 for the same thing from China from Wally-World.
Or I just flat do without...

There is a reason I don't have a big screen TV, Until someone in the US makes one,
Or I can get a SECOND HAND one that still works fine,
I'm not going to buy an Import new.

Second Hand is OK, someone else has already hurt the economy, the damage is done, and I'm not going to further ship my dollars to China or out of state by buying at Wal-Mart.

---------------------------------------

As for Gold, it's always going to have value.
If it's the 'End Of The World' it's still good for teeth caps, electrical connections, ect. and gold is surprisingly easy to work if you know what you are doing.
Everyone has teeth, and as long as you still have humans with teeth, they will need repair!

Silver is a VERY good metal repair/attachment material.
I silver solder a lot of parts where welding is impractical (very small parts) or parts that won't take welding heat...
Silver coins (Coin Silver) isn't easy to work with, so if you plan to do this, NOW is a good time to experiment!

Just having a bucket of copper or brass helps me a bunch when I'm making parts for things.
Nothing like having copper to make heat sinks out of for electrical equipment or hammer forming small parts...

--------------------------------------

One thing I read,
An account of original settlers going west from Virginia in the EARLY 1800's,
When they left the cities, the banker, shipping executive, plantation owner types were the 'Elders' of the wagon train, gave orders, took charge, and acted as if they were going to rule the world when they got out west.

By the time the 'Wilderness' has beat them down, the tail coats were ragged, barely worn, fancy straw hats were frazzled or lost, and they hadn't shaved in several weeks and were looking haggard and grizzled, they looked like beaten men in a harsh land.

By the time they reached the Mississippi River, the writer started to notice the Cobbler, Blacksmith, Wheel Right, Carpenter, Leather smith and Farmers were all looking about the same as when they left,
And they were making the decisions in times of confusion, hesitation and uncertainty,
These same quiet men that weren't noticed over the bluster and bravado of the 'Upper Class' weren't seen or noticed, even though they were the ones that did all of the work...

From the Mississippi river to across the Kansas Territory there was a constant string of fine furniture, pianos, books, fancy cloths, fine cook stoves ect. from the 'Upper Class', and they were trading the farmers and working class for food and wagon repairs,
Family heirlooms they had bragged about for months were being traded for small portions of food,
or the 'Upper Crust' were often living off the good nature of the farmers that filled their wagons with food or trade goods that were scarce in the west,
Shovels, Picks, Axes, the Blacksmith & Wheelwright were CONSTANTLY busy, the rhythmic 'Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang' of the blacksmiths hammer would go on well into the night and resume as soon as the wagon train stopped in the evening...

From Colorado Territory over the 'Great Mountains' many of the 'Upper Crust' persons the author had so looked up to were skin & bones, gaunt ghosts of their previous selves, 
They wondered off never to be seen again, broken wagons were abandoned and 3 or 4 families with as many as 15 children would be packed into one wagon with no supplies heading into what was to be the worst of the trip,
Up and over the great mountain ranges...

Once they reached Oregon, the farmers began planting, the carpenters began building, the blacksmith set up shop, and what remained of the 'Upper Crust' were working as laborers cutting timber or working for the tradesmen and faded into the background as the new community sprang up.

I always found that account quite revealing.
Money became virtually worthless, since most of it was bank notes from the east coast, prices were inflated, and tradesmen ALWAYS found work and could barter for goods & services,
While the people used to counting money and making a living off the sweat of others couldn't do the same things as the people thought to be 'Beneath' them.

One account of a fabulously wealthy family had them picking through horse manure looking for undigested kernels of grain and selling or trading their children for supplies!

As long as I can weld, solder, braze and beat heated steel into some useful tool, I WILL NOT be picking through road apples for grain kernels to keep from starving to death!

I WILL keep an 'Open' trading post, nothing like having first choice of everything that goes down the trail,
I WILL keep in mind that people WILL WORK for a full belly and a roof over their heads...

In a 'Perfect World' everyone works for their keep,
Kids don't suffer from malnutrition, 
And everyone gets basic medical care when they need it...

I'll grow my garden, raise some meat of some kind, or be able to barter services for meat when I need it,
I will INVEST my current money in tools/supplies that will sustain me in fat and lean times,
And I will WORK HARD every day, not just to keep in shape, but to store up the things I need.
I can't do my job without electrical power, bottled gas, electrodes, and machine tool bits, so I have quite a bit of those things around here most times...
If I have to go back to hammer welding things, I will, but not before I've exhausted my stored supplies.

Since I've gone solar, I have a limited, but sustainable amount of electricity, and I'm expanding slowly.
If I have a big job and I can't run the house on the battery banks for one or two days until they charge back up,
Small price to pay for a BIG PAYDAY...
And the more I expand my system, the less likely that is going to be anyway.

Right now, I DO NOT need gold, so I'm selling it.
When the price drops, or I get a chance to buy it 'Right' I'll put some more away.
I use Silver a couple times a week in the shop, so if silver gets high enough, I'll sell it,
If it doesn't, I'll keep using it in the shop like I have been.

Same with copper, brass, bronze, steel, ect.
What most people see as 'Junk' or 'Trash',
I see as raw materials or 'Stock', so I throw virtually nothing away...
If it's too small to do anything with, it's off to the recyclers for cash money to help expand my stocks or shop.

Gold isn't the answer, but the gold I just sold purchased me a new underground propane tank full of fuel, (Propane is cheap in the summer months, more expensive and harder to dig holes/install tanks in the winter)

And... it got me a new welder/generator that expands my abilities to profit from the CURRENT economy,
And will make me a good living if the economy goes ahead and collapses in the second part of the 'Double Dip' recession...

I'm working mostly at home, I set my own hours, I like my 'Boss' 
(even though she does wear on my nerves some!)
And I'm right here to tend the garden, water the animals, and keep an eye on things... 
And work at my own pace! (Old, Fat, Broken Down, so that means a LOT!)


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## Watchman1047

I started looking into it in December for my clients and found out real quick how much spread most brokers charge, Being in the insurance industry I understood how Heirarchies work. Wow, you wouldn't believe the upcharge. Seen as high as 40 %. Guess advertising has its costs.


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## JeepHammer

Yup, 'Scrap' gold, buying old jewelry, you can have it for around 10% to 25% if it's actual worth on the bullion market.

The little bullion market coins, like charm bracelet jewelry, is a good way to buy smaller coins that are of known purity and weight.
Wait until some jewelery store is going out of business, and scoop up on it below market value.

I buy what comes across my desk at a favorable rate.
No way I want to pay retail, so I'll consider anything.

Right now, I'm NOT buying unless it's DIRT CHEAP,
Usually about 15% of spot market value, since I can get about 50% to 75% of spot market value when I send a batch in for smelting.

Coins have extra value since they are VERIFIABLE, especially US and Canadian mint issued coins.

Be careful with Mexican Silver, learn to test it before you buy it!
Some 'Sliver' Mexican coins are less than 50% silver, and you can get burned QUICKLY!

When buying gold, learn to do a 'Rub/Acid' test.
Cost of the stone and acids are cheap, and it will save you a TON of money if you buy gold jewelry.
Specific Gravity testing will give you a good idea of actual content also, but takes a little more training and equipment, but is accurate.

My place is in Vegas, so I have shipping, insurance, ect. added into my costs,
But the average payout for 'Scrap' gold is somewhere between 10% and 25% of actual spot market value,
And when you send it to a REPUTABLE smelter (Not those TV ads you see!) you will get between 50% and 75% of 'Spot' market value.


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## TinCan

mosquitomountainman said:


> Precious metals have their place like everything else. Just don't go to extremes on them unless you have every other need for yourself taken care of. It's entirely possible you'll want to trade with someone who doesn't need your goods or labor. PM's may be the only thing he's interested in. They key is to have your physical needs covered. That gives you greater bargaining power in any deal. If you put all your preps in gold you could very well find yourself paying an ounce of gold for a loaf of bread. If you have all the food, protection, shelter, etc. you need then you may be the one getting the ounce of gold for the loaf of bread. Eventually things will stabilize unless we go to a true EOTWAWKI situation. In that case your gold could very well be worthless during your lifetime. But in most situations PM's will always have some value to someone. Just make sure your physical needs are met before you go overboard on acquiring PM's.
> 
> In the meantime, work on acquiring skills that will be valuable in any type of economy.


I think mosquitomountainman has it right. Keep a balance to everything. Gold and silver are Insurance, just like a full pantry and just like a loaded shotgun.


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## SurviveNthrive

The illogic of arguing against an item of value that's endured thousands of years is amusing, especially when our society, like almost every society, teaches us that wealth brings privileges and gets us out of trouble.

*No ultra rich people died in a Nazi Death Camp or the Killing Fields of Cambodia.* Generally, they had the brains to know to leave, and the portable wealth to do so. Even Himmler, despite his deep seated, almost religion level views on race took gold from some Jewish people and set them free.

When there weren't enough life boats aboard the Titanic one couple managed to get a boat for themselves, their dog, and their luggage, complete with their luggage and a crew of rowers. They went to some of the funerals of their more noble peers who didn't bribe, and they went to celebratory events commemorating their survival.

Preparedness is about preserving options.

I'd like to have a lot of gold, but there are other things on the list of higher priority. What most miss is many folks with the gold are also wealthy enough that they have the other things as well. Down the road, while some are starving there will be others who amass food, ammunition, and power. They aren't going to need any more chickens. They'll have security that will include combat arms veterans of Afghanistan and Iraq, so those who fantasize about selling their gun to some post SHTF warlord are dreaming. What those folks will be willing to trade for is gold because they have everything else and they know that gold is recognized by those who are likely to amass resources and power, it doesn't spoil, and it doesn't corrode.

If you can grow chickens, corn, and wheat, so can anyone else.

One interesting thing, a lot of the former 'boat people' who bought their passage out of Vietnam, keep a bit of gold handy, and they are likely acquring more during bad times. They know. We speculate.

The most important thing about gold is it's out performed just about everything during the last decade and a half. It wasn't that long ago that an ounce of gold was just $320!


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## idahofreedom

If you are not a gold buyer, at least pay attention to the gold market - it is a predictor of things to come. Gold is often used as a hedge against inflation - when gold prices go up, it means there are more buyers than sellers - which also means there are a LOT of people concerned about future inflation.

Paying attention to what is happening in the world around us helps define what preps we should be making. 

A good prepper does more than just fill a closet.


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## HozayBuck

*I have lots of PM's*

More then I can carry.... Brass, lead, primers.. plus powder..and loaded PM's by the plenty...

I still can't see buying gold and silver at all time highs, sure if you got it 20 + years ago then good on ya... but the only people screaming buy are the sellers... that is obvious ... buy when it's in your favor...

I have some guns for sale but am holding off because the prices are down for the moment... they will go higher again...then I'll sell...

And I'll use the money for more preps... seeds! and some more tools for working the ground.. hand powered of course...

And I will buy some PM's called Nails !!...and bolts!.. nuts etc etc...these are real PMs!!


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## The_Blob

I know that I was VERY glad in 2003 that I didn't buy gold in 2000, even though I had more $$$ to do it...

of course, NOW I am wishing that I had bought MORE than I did in 2003


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## SurviveNthrive

too bad I didn't buy gold in 2000!!!


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