# Horse power?



## kejmack

Does anyone plan on using horse power as their alternative transportation?


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## *Andi

If it comes down to it ...


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## UncleJoe

Absolutely!

*Sidebar:* About 10 years ago DW and her son went out riding and decided they were hungry. Instead of going home they rode into town and went through the drive-thru at McD's. She said the employee's went nuts! So much so that it got the attention of the people in the dining room. They got their order and as they rode away, the windows were lined with people watching them go. Must have been quite a sight.


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## mosquitomountainman

UncleJoe said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> *Sidebar:* About 10 years ago DW and her son went out riding and decided they were hungry. Instead of going home they rode into town and went through the drive-thru at McD's. She said the employee's went nuts! So much so that it got the attention of the people in the dining room. They got their order and as they rode away, the windows were lined with people watching them go. Must have been quite a sight.


 I was in McDonalds one day and these two guys were there eating. They had just come from a rendesvous and were still in their leather "costumes" from the 1800's complete with beaded mocassins. I was sure wishing I had my camera with me then!


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## dunappy

Yep I've got 4 horses and one mule out in the pasture as we speak. I've had horses nearly my entire life and wouldn't be without one.



kejmack said:


> Does anyone plan on using horse power as their alternative transportation?


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## Turtle

Yep, horses are definitely part of the plan.


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## RevWC

Owned a horse once...not again...I prefere a mountian bike...greener...no vet bills...just need a hand pump for the tires...perhaps a couple of extra tubes...also, I can cover more ground in a day...cheaper to operate...


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## UncleJoe

RevWC said:


> Owned a horse once...not again...I prefere a mountian bike...greener...no vet bills...just need a hand pump for the tires...perhaps a couple of extra tubes...also, I can cover more ground in a day...cheaper to operate...


Yeah but that bike is gonna have a tough time pulling a plow through the field.


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## Meerkat

UncleJoe said:


> Yeah but that bike is gonna have a tough time pulling a plow through the field.


 So are we accoding to the masters you'll need a CDL license to pull a plow because farming will be union and if you ain't union you can't grow food anyway.Just read about this new plan today.another ball & chain from Agenda 21.
Americans need to wake up.We can run but we can't hide.


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## horseman09

RevWC said:


> Owned a horse once...not again...I prefere a mountian bike...greener...no vet bills...just need a hand pump for the tires...perhaps a couple of extra tubes...also, I can cover more ground in a day...cheaper to operate...


Rev, that depends on the kind of ground ya wanna cover.  My horses can swim (*that* is a ball), plow through brush, climb hills I sure wouldn't wanna pedal, pull a plow, sleigh or buggy, and they can leap tall buildings...........well, ok. They can't do that, but they do a mighty fine job producing nitrogen-rich organic matter. :2thumb:


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## sailaway

My horse is an iron horse, 85 Yamaha Virago.


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## ReconCraftTheta

It's a pretty decent idea. Horses can be used not only for transportation, but work as well. Utilities and manuer, ect ect. Very useful animal. On the other hand, you'd have to figure out a plan to keep them fed and watered as well as yourself and your family.


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## aard_rinn

*Horses? Nahh...*

When I get my own place, I want either hebra or camels. They don't need grain, and will strip leaves off of trees. Of course, this'll be on my swag island, so... yeah. A ways off.


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## k10macosta

A horse would be nice but that's alot of water and food. I've had 6 horses and been around a lot more. They leave a very traceable trail. Very load and noisy and if you are hiding you can't turn them off or brush leaves over them. It is more than just throwing a saddle on the m and riding to safety. They take a lot of care. One groundhog hole, sink hole or barbed wire fence. And you have to carry 200lbs of gear by yourself. A very good option as a BOV though


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## *Andi

And you will still have to carry that 200 lbs gear (or not) when you run out of gas ...

Just saying ...


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## k10macosta

*Andi said:


> And you will still have to carry that 200 lbs gear (or not) when you run out of gas ...
> 
> Just saying ...


But a truck is shelter and safety. Animals are much more fragile. When it comes down to it I would not have to choose to give my last clean gallon of water to my family or my truck. With a horse you would have to choose.


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## cnsper

Well you can eat your horse but not your truck. At least the horse is easier to chew. LOL


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## k10macosta

cnsper said:


> Well you can eat your horse but not your truck. At least the horse is easier to chew. LOL


I hear horse tastes terrible but id much rather eat seabiscuit than my seat cover. LOL


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## *Andi

Good luck with that ...


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## LincTex

k10macosta said:


> A horse would be nice but that's a lot of water and food. They leave a very traceable trail. It is more than just throwing a saddle on the m and riding to safety. They take a lot of care. Animals are much more fragile.


Agree 100% on all of this. If you can do all the care and have the money, go for it. People without a lot of land and on a tight budget have zero percent chance of keeping a horse for preps; there are a lot less costlier alternatives.


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## machinist

Horses fit in the proper situation, but that is comparatively rare now with a mostly urban population. We have worked a hobby farm with horses for 12 years and know the drill, so yes, if things play out where it makes sense we would use horses. Don't have any at the moment, but there are a LOT around here lazing around in pastures. Half the owners will GIVE them away, if you ask. 

So, I have a stash of NEW work harness and enough implements to work our daughter's 32 acres. Her neighbors have horses and they have a deal worked out for that eventuality so we can all keep growing food. Transportation is the least of my worries, as long as I can still walk. Yeah, got a bicycle, too, and what it takes to keep that going. Bikes are probably the most efficient transportation that exists today. 

Use the horses to grow some groceries. Sure beats digging up the garden with a spade, IMHO.

The big problem with working the available horses is that they are most all light riding breeds with small feet and thin hooves, so they need to be shod if they are pulling. Heavy horses, not so much, but they are rare outside the Amish communities here, and the Amish have plenty for them to do. The lazy riding horses here would need an education, re-shoeing at intervals, and are a lot more fractious than the work breeds. Guess I'll have to fire up the forge and make horse shoes, huh? Not a pro at that, but I can do it.


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## LincTex

machinist said:


> The lazy riding horses here would need an education, re-shoeing at intervals, and are a lot more fractious than the work breeds.


No kidding. Anyone who thinks they can slap a harness on a "riding horse" and go make it go pull a plow down a field is a damn idiot.

Sure would make for some good "funniest home videos" though!


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## cnsper

k10macosta said:


> I hear horse tastes terrible but id much rather eat seabiscuit than my seat cover. LOL


Well since he is dead he may be your seat cover... LOL

Horse is eaten in europe and other areas of the world. Hell this country does not eat a lot of meats that others do in great amounts. Goat and sheep are great examples. Yeah we eat them but not like the rest of the world.


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## HozayBuck

*Let me say this first. We have a horse here on the homestead. IF for any reason she were asked to do anything beyond eat and crap and bitch if she thinks dinner is 30 seconds late she would call the ACLU the NHS and 14 lawyers. Yes she's worthless but she is a good old girl and I enjoy just standing by her and breathing in the horse smell.

I've owned 7 horses in my life and loved the hell out of 3 of them and they returned it in spades. I've ridden many a mile up in the wild country of Montana thru the Bob Marshall Wilderness as well as the Scape Goat to name a couple of beautiful places.

I've only heard of one time a horse had a wreck that killed it and that was 30 years ago but it does happen. One needs to use as much care with a horse as when you drive your car. Avoiding bad places is pretty easy.

Yes they cost a bundle in food and vet care and shoes but if you can afford to keep one it's well worth it.

In truth a good well trained riding mule is worth a lot more then a horse. Just saying.

I've never been particularly religious but I've never doubt the existence of a greater power by any name . But this I can tell you. When you sitting on some high lonely quiet spot and feel the sun on your back and smell the cold breeze coming off the far Mountains. Right at that moment sitting there on that wonderful animal you can truly see all the way to God.

I like horses and I think they are truly mans best friend. Dogs? they fit in the stew pot easier then a horse. *


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## kejmack

American horses are like American dogs....bored and overfed. Horses, like dogs, need a job. Being riding a couple time a week in an arena is not a job. 

And, for the record, horse meat IS delicious. In Europe, horses are raised specifically for meat and it is wonderful.


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## machinist

I learned a lot about working horses from a young Amish friend of ours. He bought a pair of Belgian-Thorobred mares, born from Belgian sisters after the Thorobred stud got out. The old man who raised them was too feeble to train them, so they were wild as deer. They were BIG, at about 17 hands and probably 1,500-1,600 pounds each.

He and I used my 4WD truck to chase them into the barn the first time. Then, one decided she would kick the snot out of anything behind her. I dropped in for a visit and saw he had soft cotton lead ropes tied around all 4 of her hocks (ankles). Huh? He said he had tied her front feet to her back feet on each side with the ropes, so if she kicked, it yanked her front feet out from under her and she landed on her nose. Only took one time to convince her it was a bad idea. He cut the ropes between her feet after a couple days, but left the remains tied around the feet for a while. "She doesn't know it won't happen again if she kicks," he said. "I can't have a kicker around small kids." No problem after that. 

Ernie borrowed my team of gentle old Percheron mares and worked the wild ones between ours, 3 abreast. Used them first on a disc, with it set to cut deep and lots of weight on it so it pulled hard. He used a "Jockey stick" between my horses' hames and the bit rings of the newbie. Then, he tied the tripletree back solid to the disc for the newbie. 

If the newbie balked, the tripletree hit her in the heels. It she tried to run off, she had the whole load by herself. If she tried to cut up and kick, my pair would bite her and stop that quick. The sticks prevented her from reaching my horses to bite them. All she could do was her job. It only took about 2 rounds around the field before she had it figured out. 

He worked each one day and then other the next, giving the first a day off to rest. After a couple weeks of this, he hooked the two "wild" ones to the disc without my horses. Said it all went fine until the disc hit a stone and scared them. They ran off through the field, but this didn't worry him. he increased the "set" in the disc to make it pull hard, and switched their butts with the bean pole he carried. 

Ernie said that the first couple turns were a little wide, but they soon got tired of running with the load. He used the sharp end on the bean pole to keep them going at a reasonable rate until dinner time, and said they showed no inclination to run off after that. 

By the time I visited a couple weeks later, his WIFE was driving them with the disc! NO PROBLEM. Ernie is just a little guy, about 5 foot 8 inches and not over 140 pounds soaking wet. I asked how he managed to get them so well behaved so fast, and he related the above. He grinned and said, "You just gotta be smarter than the horse." 

Loved that guy.  Great sense of humor and a really fine friend. When he finally moved away some years later, he sold that team for a really good price, too. They were fast on the road with a loaded wagon, and handled like a dream.

I really wish I had room for horses now, but when the time comes, we'll have some at my daughter's place. She grew up with our team, trained some of her own, and knows far more than I do about them.


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## k10macosta

LincTex said:


> Agree 100% on all of this. If you can do all the care and have the money, go for it. People without a lot of land and on a tight budget have zero percent chance of keeping a horse for preps; there are a lot less costlier alternatives.


Every situation is different. And when something happens. A horse might be good or whatever. If there is a rapid cooling of the earth horses will be no good. But if there is a shortage of gas they would be ideal. It depends on the person to and what they prefer.


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## k10macosta

cnsper said:


> Well since he is dead he may be your seat cover... LOL
> 
> Horse is eaten in europe and other areas of the world. Hell this country does not eat a lot of meats that others do in great amounts. Goat and sheep are great examples. Yeah we eat them but not like the rest of the world.


It is now legal to eat horses. As of last thanksgiving so that would keep some people from doing it lol


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Oh I don't know about how you have to own land and spend
A lot of money and do lots of extra work.
I have owned 2 percherons for 7? Years no land and I make about
300-700 per year.
Then again I live in my wagon.


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## MsSage

The grulla is the handiest horse you can have. She can do any ranch work, pull anything, and go forever. She is VERY mareish LOLOLOL
The sorrel is still greenbroke but is the most loving, kind and gentle animal you could want. Most women will tell you there is nothing better that the smell of a horse right under the mane LOL BEST stress reliever and encourager around.
S/O keeps saying we need 4 wheeler ...goes longer, haul more and no hay. You can store fuel easier than hay in a smaller area. But I also know he would miss a good horse when times are at their worst.


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## MsSage

LincTex said:


> No kidding. Anyone who thinks they can slap a harness on a "riding horse" and go make it go pull a plow down a field is a damn idiot.
> 
> Sure would make for some good "funniest home videos" though!


if your talking arena show riding horse yeap your right BUT if your talking ranch riding horse your wrong. They are use to dragging calves to the fire. Most have also drug a log to be cut up for firewood so it would be pretty easy putting a plow behind them. 
Horses are not for everyone and they are not the end all be all answer. You have to decide what is better for you and your situation.


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## *Andi

MsSage said:


> if your talking arena show riding horse yeap your right BUT if your talking ranch riding horse your wrong. They are use to dragging calves to the fire. Most have also drug a log to be cut up for firewood so it would be pretty easy putting a plow behind them.
> Horses are not for everyone and they are not the end all be all answer. You have to decide what is better for you and your situation.


Very well put ...

It is all in what you teach them ... each of our horses have worked saddle and harness, at one time or another. (The donkeys will start come spring.)

A horse is no different from any other farm critter. You get out of it, what you put in. Your not going to get a cow/goat that has never been milked to stand while you milk... You need to work with it. (well, I guess one could try but ...)

Any critter will take a little time and work ... just the way it is. (And you will get what you have put into it.)


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## LincTex

I have considered what you have said, however:

1) Dragging a calf or a log is saddle work, not harness work. And those are NOT heavy pulling loads. Hell, I can drag a calf near as easily as a horse can. Besides, a riding saddle breast strap doesn't place the load across a horse's shoulders in a way you would want to do for very long. You need a proper collar to pull a proper load.

2) It only gets worse when you realize that in "theory" some people "think" they can train a horse to pull a plow.

3) It gets even worse when these people who have never done the training think they can apply "Theory" to practice having never actually done it before, and with bold confidence they set forth.

4) ....and even worse when you realize that good pulling harness equipment is very limited in quantity.

5) I personally know of ZERO "riders" that are also farriers. I know they are out there..... but they are NOT common. Of the two farriers I know, only one rides and the other very seldom.

Besides, when has anyone here last seen a collar that fits a quarter horse? The ones I know of are for much larger horses. I suppose one from a mule or really large donkey would work, but those are so rare I hardly ever see them but once every few years.

So, even if all the "wanna-be"s actually train their saddle horses to pull a plow, there really isn't near enough of the proper sized equipment to go around.... and VERY VERY VERY FEW people would consider dropping the huge $$$$$ needed to buy the right equipment on pure speculation it may be needed in the future. Your money would be far better spent on a small diesel Yanmar or Kubota tractor and a hundred gallons of diesel.


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## MsSage

Well linc I would love to see you drag the calf the grulla drug last spring....closer to 400 pounds and she did it a few more times then went on to the smaller ones and at the end of the day was just tired not dead tired.

My S/O is NOT a farrier and would tell you in no uncertain terms he is NOT, but he is a shoer, He has rode all his life and still does, I know most of the cowboys around here trim their own horses. 

WOW you better tell all the morgan horse harness people they cant get a harness for a quarter horse ....... 

As I said its NOT for everyone BUT for me and most of the people around here its what we will do. I use to live in Livingston and I KNOW the "cowboys" you are prob talking about ......yeah they aint got a clue BUT up here we have working cowboys who DO KNOW how to train and take care of all needs a horse has. I never understood a working cowboy till I came up here. I thought all dime store cowboys were real ones...LOLOLOLOLOL Take time to research before you state something as fact.......
Oh I only have a bit over 3 acres and not made of money. I work paycheck to paycheck, but make sure my animals have what they need...even if I go without. My big babies are what will carry me through when all else fails around me and they are not negotiable. And yes she is trained to pull a wagon or plow...sorrel will be trained in 2 summers.


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## LincTex

MsSage said:


> WOW you better tell all the *morgan horse* harness people they cant get a harness for a quarter horse .......


OMG, are you serious?? Please tell me you are joking!!

You think you are going to pull a plow with THIS!??!?? hahaha!


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## MsSage

here ya go its the same breed as my neighbor and same size as my quarter horses .....
Check them out haflingers. They are NOT a rare breed. I was telling you smaller horses can pull , the only breed that can pull a plow is NOT a draft.


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## horseman09

Riding horses certainly can be trained and used for light field work, but I'd agree that it takes a "trainer" not a "wisher" to make that happen. Unless I miss my guess, I'd bet Andi or MSage could make it happen.

As for shoeing, I don't know about Texas soil, but I see no reason to shoe horses for PA field work if the horse has good feet to begin with.


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## justme

I know this is an old thread but I am looking into using a horse or horses as BOV. Everyone on this thread has given me many thing to think about and to learn the skills that I don't know yet about using a horse as a BOV. I have ridden many horses in my day but never had to care for all by myself, dad or grandfather helped out a lot in the care of what horses I was around. I think back to the pioneer days and if I am correct they used their horses for pulling plows and wagons plus riding them. I am not sure what breed of horses they were using and some even used oxen to plow with. So the opinions are great when using a horse but like many have said it takes training them and a lot of knowledge. I am in the processes of finding an Amish or Mennonite in the community that can teach me how to drive a buggy. I hope to learn this skill soon.


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## smaj100

Just me, most of the amish & mennonite in our area will train or sell horses for field work. Reckon it all depends on your budget and needs. We have 4 that have never done anything other than saddlework. If push comes to shove, I would breed my mares and carry a couple of yearlings to the local amish guy to either trade or train.  Hopefully I'll have enough diesel to keep using the tractor or or make the wood gasifier work till the horses were ready.


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## lazydaisy67

I have three QH and intend to use them for whatever I have to. They go barefoot and we trim and file their hooves ourselves. Don't know if that makes us ferriers or just trimmers, lol. If I had my choice of it, I'd probably pick the Percheron. Good for riding and pulling, gentle enough for kids to handle, strong, etc. but they're not in our budget at the moment. Mules would be my 2nd choice, but since they don't reproduce, you'd have to maintain your breeding stock. 
Defending the horses may prove to be a challenge too. Between people wanting to ride and eat them and the government wanting to confiscate them it may be tough.


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## machinist

I have worked Percherons and Morgans in work harness. Originally, the Morgans were bred to be an all purpose horse, working fields daytimes, pulling buggies or wearing a saddle on weekends. In fact, Disney made a movie about the original Morgan horse, and it winning a race. 

Today's Morgans are bred for show and carriage work, far from the orginal horse, IIRC. But I have seen some nice unregistered Morgans used for buggy horses and to plow the same Amishman's garden and drag in his firewood. These horses weighed around 1,000 to 1,100 pounds and had good sturdy feet. When not being used for road work, they went barefoot and worked around the farm. 

Another possibility for a general purpose horse is becoming popular in our area, a Belgian/Quarter horse cross. These are pretty docile creatures generally, big enough to do some real work and not too heavy, so they don't tend to get the fused ankle bones common in the heavy draft breeds. Those old draft horses ride nicely at a walk, but at a canter those stiff ankles will beat you half to death. The best part if the draft breeds is, they are typically very gentle. My 8 and 10 year old daughters worked our garden easily with one old mare and a 9 shovel cultivator. The mare was tall, so they had to work together to get her in harness, but she did a great job with the kids. The whole family cried together when she died of old age. 

If you want a plow horse, go for the heavy ones. If you want to do other things with them, I would look at some of the above breeds. Most small time farming here back 100 years ago was done with scrubs--smaller, tough horses that did it all. Their feet weren't all that solid, so they needed shoeing if they were going to pull hard. The choice of horse is more about the education they have for this sort of general use, and the education of the owner to properly care for them and use them within their limits.


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## LincTex

lazydaisy67 said:


> we trim and file their hooves ourselves. Don't know if that makes us farriers or just trimmers, lol.


It makes you: "responsible horse owners"!! 
(sadly, also becoming very rare these days...  )



lazydaisy67 said:


> Defending the horses may prove to be a challenge too. Between people wanting to ride and eat them and the government wanting to confiscate them it may be tough.


Truth, especially the gov't getting in everyone's biznezz lately. Don't get me started on "commercial driver's licenses" needed to drive a tractor....


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## LincTex

machinist said:


> Another possibility for a general purpose horse is becoming popular in our area, a Belgian/Quarter horse cross. These are pretty docile creatures generally, big enough to do some real work and not too heavy, .


Getting very popular around here as well. If I felt I needed a horse, I would _strongly_ lean in this direction.


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## lazydaisy67

Horses in our area are considered a costly luxury at best and a senseless pain in the you know what at worst. The market is so bad now that good, broke, 6-12 yr old, kid safe horses of any and all breeds are going to the kill buyers at auction for $35!!  On the opposite side of the spectrum, there's folks who think they have the WORLD'S BEST horse cause it can sidepass and do flying lead changes. I guess I'm just too ******* cause I don't have a clue what a flying lead change is, but I do know how to get my horse to drag the kids over the snow on an inter tube in the winter. Seems like a more useful skill to me, but I could be wrong.


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## LincTex

lazydaisy67 said:


> I don't have a clue what a flying lead change is,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_(leg)

Not sure why you want to do this "on the fly"?


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## crabapple

RevWC, keeping a horse cost more now, but WTSHTF> I will need a second horse, because the one we have is old. Hope I have skill & crops to trade for horse or horse time/labor.
A backhoe cost $40.00 to $100.00 an hour.
When the gasoline is gone, we will pay big for a horse & operator.
"Operator"???? WHAT, Think about it, if you had a good work horse would you let just anyone use/abuse it.
NO NO, so we will pay the operator & the horse labor & be glad to get it.
If you can not afford a horse or the up keep on one, at least learn to ride, care for & work one.
These are skill for a job to help the ones who have horses & can trade use of the horse for your work.
You say it will never come to that, hope you are right, but my Eagle Scout says "Be Prepared,Dad".


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