# VHF/UHF Bag Setup - Advice Requested



## AdmiralD7S (Dec 6, 2012)

I am looking to create a "radio bag" setup for a VHF/UHF radio. The radio would live in my small GHB. When needed, I would reach into the bag to turn the radio on to a preset frequency, and then have external PTT-mic and a speaker running out the bag to me. The compartment is 11" tall x 8" wide x 4.5" deep.

I'm seeing a lot of new folks like myself using the Baofeng UV-5R, and since they appear to have a good balance of cost/performance, I'm leaning that way for a first radio. However, I'm a steadfast believer in "you get what you pay for"; I'm not opposed to buying quality, so if there is a significant performance improvement in moving to a more expensive radio, I'm all ears.

What I would like is advice from folks with hands-on experience with the equipment they're suggesting. To be clear, I'm looking for folks that can speak from practice rather than The Almighty Google. So, that said, what radio, mic/speaker, antenna would you recommend....and WHY? Pros/cons of your setup? If it was the only way to get hold of your husband, wife, kids, etc in an emergency, would you REALLY have faith that it could go the distance (both figuratively and literally)?

To head-off some posts that could derail the thread:
[LIST}
[*] I have gone through dozens of threads about radio setups. The current threads don't provide me the information I'm looking for.
[*] I am working to get my technician and general license in one pop.
[*] If you have questions about the "why" of this setup, please PM me and I'll be happy to discuss.
[/LIST]


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

(Scratches head)

VHF or UHF is going to be so location dependent, esp with what I assume to be a low power (<5 watt) hand-held, no matter what antenna is used.

I had very good VHF range on my Icom 2SAT on the Nevada desert, using an inexpensive MFJ extended whip. Folks like to hate on MFJ, but with some care, they are no worse than any other system.
Here in Alaska, a handheld is good for line of sight, which is to say, without a working repeater, no more than a couple of miles.

If the others you want to talk with do not have a license, how will you communicate?

A _quality_ MURS radio and a hi gain antenna would allow you to communicate without the hassle of getting a ham license, and the difference between 2 and 5 watts, in most cases, isn't something that you can hear.

What I carry now is an older ICOM T7, a cheap Radio Shack speaker mike and the MFJ collapsible antenna. When in use I can hold the rig over my head to get the best range possible. Range is still very location dependent

You might want to spend a few bucks more and get a water sortaproof rig like the Yaesu FT-270 which is very well made. I have the earlier version (repeater use only) and it is built like a brick outhouse.

Some folks like the Chinese rigs, but I've never heard of a Yaesu or Icom bricking itself by the mere application of power - something that happens a lot with te Henco en China stuff.
.

Good luck.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I have one of these on the shoulder strap of each GHB :

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DZPBXM...TF8&colid=2K5RFPK1QX72R&coliid=I34MCB5HSC1G7L

It will accept a FRS/GMRS radio or a HAM HT whether the Baofeng or a more expensive brand name.

If you want some specific advice, we need to know more about what your communication needs are. Generally, there are a lot challenges which is what HAMs are into. The right solution will be situation specific.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

AdmiralD7S said:


> I am looking to create a "radio bag" setup for a VHF/UHF radio. The radio would live in my small GHB. When needed, I would reach into the bag to turn the radio on to a preset frequency, and then have external PTT-mic and a speaker running out the bag to me. The compartment is 11" tall x 8" wide x 4.5" deep.
> ...
> What I would like is advice from folks with hands-on experience with the equipment they're suggesting. To be clear, I'm looking for folks that can speak from practice rather than The Almighty Google. So, that said, what radio, mic/speaker, antenna would you recommend....and WHY? Pros/cons of your setup? If it was the only way to get hold of your husband, wife, kids, etc in an emergency, would you REALLY have faith that it could go the distance (both figuratively and literally)?


Hello Admiral!

I'm not a HAM, so I stick with the publicly available freqs. I am, however, licensed for GMRS.

I don't claim to be an expert on any of this, and I can't test things under every condition, but what I *will* do, is give you my opinions based on real, honest-to-goodness, first-hand experience with the radio(s) I'm about to discuss.

Also, please understand that our application of radio communications may differ from yours.

This also affords me the opportunity to describe my own plans and seek constructive advice from you, as well as others in the forum.

...so here goes....

I have a pair of ICOM FG 21s (now discontinued) and absolutely love them. They're GMRS only (with interstitials) but NOT the strictly FRS freqs.

My wife and I use them, with the ICOM speaker/mics and have used them as far as two miles apart along a clear path. With her in the house, and me cresting a hill in the car, we've gone 5 miles (all distances are straight-line, as-the-crow-flies, not road-miles) with reliable communications. We use the stock rubber-ducky antennas.

The range decreases significantly with the radios on our bodies (like on a belt) and (at the max power) we get about one to one and a half miles. UHF being what it is, in thickly wooded areas, we only get about a half mile, but it's pretty solid.

With the "AA" battery packs, figure about two thirds that range (the battery packs actually limit the radio output to the lower setting). At least, that's what I've measured.

I've also used them over water when canoeing with the in-laws. Even exploring different parts of the lake and inlets (several miles apart and some wooded areas between us) there was never any time we tried to communicate and couldn't!

I also have a pair of ICOM 4011s set up similarly (speaker/mics, stock rubber-duckies) and get similar performance. What I *don't* like about the 4011s is that they *require* the use of a PC and specialized cable to program them. The '21s are completely programmable at the radio itself. With the 4011s, "privacy codes" and such have to be pre-set and can't be changed on-the-fly. The only reason I own the 4011s is, quite frankly, because I misplaced the '21s for a length of time and wrote them off.

I also have a pair of 5Rs. Before going any further, let me tell you that I *do not*, I repeat *DO NOT* get the same performance from them as I do the ICOMs! Yet, there are reasons I like them.

I get about similar performance from the 5Rs that I get using the "AA" battery packs from the ICOMs. The sound-quality isn't quite as good, but it's still more than adequate for the task at hand.

I have ours programmed for GMRS and MURS, *and* for receive-only on NOAA frequencies. I find that the MURS tends to do about a quarter mile or so better in heavily wooded areas than any UHF (including my ICOMs) on available frequencies. They also do a *much* better job of pulling in the NOAA freqs than the Wall-World "FRS" bubble-packs.

Even though I have 5Rs *programmed* (again, using a PC), they *can* be programmed on-the-fly, providing one knows the frequencies assigned to each channel. They also have the capacity to use "AA" packs, which, apparently, don't reduce the power output (which is, quite frankly, already in question).

We also have them set up with speaker/mics. During power outages, while I venture out to check out the neighborhood on foot, we use the 5Rs. Out road is a mile long and the house is in the approximate middle. On GMRS, we've had no issues communicating with *my* radio carried on-body, and the wife's sitting on the dining-room table. With the 5Rs, there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in the range between GMRS and MURS... other than in very thickly wooded areas.

For car-to-car travel, we've also used (and compared) the 5Rs, 4011s, and '21s. We find the performance of the 5Rs adequate. Considering that the radio is inside the vehicles with no external antenna (although they're all capable of taking an external), we can be about 1 mile apart, farther if it's a straight shot. (Lots of hills and trees in New Hampshire).

I also have a pair of Cobra HH425s with speaker/mics. These are GMRS MARINE VHF. Obviously, one does not want to use the VHF portion of this radio on-shore. So, I can't give you any information regarding that band. The GMRS however, seems to give us about the same range and clarity as the ICOMs. "Privacy codes" can also be programmed on the radio itself. The weather-band also works *very* well and pulls things in quite nicely, even slightly better than what I've noticed on the 5Rs.

These (Cobras) are the one's we'll be using for our next multi-household canoe excursion on flat water.

Those 5Rs have become part of our car-kits (I don't really call them Get-Home-Bags, or Bug-Out-Bags.... They're there for a car-oriented crisis and we jettison the stuff we don't need if we have to turn them into Get-Home-Bags).

Being hand-held radios, we have absolutely no plans on making them a *vital* part of getting hold of each other. We "count" on them only as a convenience, using them only when we know we're in-range with a per-determined plan.

For anything resembling "long range" (as in more than 5 miles), we use 27MHz Citizens Band. They're in the cars, and I'm planning (and procrastinating) setting up an honest-to-goodness base-station with an antenna pole. This spring will probably find a pole in the backyard, with both the 27MHz antenna, and a "low-power" base antenna for GMRS (providing I can afford decent transmission line for the GMRS).

Once I get that set up, mobile-to-base communications may become more a part of our plans. Handheld to handheld though, we've come to accept as simply (what I refer to as) per-operation.

We do, however, keep those 5Rs in the car-kits. I do recommend them simply because I've found them to be viable, somewhat programmable, frequency-versatile, apparently reliable, and, quite frankly (due to the price-point), pretty much disposable. (the car isn't a friendly environment for storing electronics and batteries).

I've come to abandon the notion of external antennas on these radios for mobile use (other than the 27MHz, of course). If I need that kind of range, GMRS is simply the wrong choice, and repeaters are (in my opinion) a foolish thing to depend upon unless there are enough of them in the area to guarantee one in-between where one has a crisis, and the person with whom one is desiring communications.

In a "base-camp" environment, I may be willing to put up an antenna pole in the corner of camp, but that's (again) my idea of per-operation, and not within the scope of a GHB.

Your mileage may vary....

Looking forward to any constructive comments from anyone.

-All the best.


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## dademoss (Aug 6, 2011)

Antenna, Antenna, Antenna!

Spend your money on GOOD antennas! I have both a Baofeng UV-5r and a Yaesu FT-60. Forced to chooses just one and I will be grabbing the Yaesu, it''s solid and dependable, and slightly more output than the Baofeng. All HT's will likely be pretty close in performance, the ANTENNA is what you need to make the contact.

If you can stay with your Vehicle, I would go with a Comet : CA-2x4SR

BROADBAND VHF/UHF Dual Band Antenna
CA-2x4SR: Designed to assist Search & Rescue Volunteers and Professionals
1.5:1 or less SWR: 144-148/440-450MHz
2:1 or less SWR: 140-160/435-465MHz
Gain: 3.8/6.2dBi
Max Power: 150 watts
Length: 40 inches
Connector: PL-259
Fold-over hinge included

If just the HT, the I chose a Smiley 270A:

http://www.smileyantenna.com/collections/dual-band/products/270a-dual-band

If semi-mobile, there are other choices, a dual band J-pole and a collapsable mast, etc, each situation will be different.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

I have and use the Standard Horizon HX-370S. Standard Horizon is owned by Vertex--who owns Vertex Standard, Yaesu, etc. Vertex builds quality commercial radios for industry, public safety and so forth. 

The $125-150 radio comes with a cradle charger, 1400mAH battery. It is waterproof to the point it is submersible for a short time. It accepts a lot of the Vertex commercial accessories such as waterproof speaker/mics, fast charger, etc. It is legal to use on the Land Mobile frequencies as well as Amateur Radio and Marine.

The batteries last a good while in standby mode. I've used them off and on for a few days at full power and they didn't fail. I use them for work when needed--they work better than those GMRS. Plus I can add tone squelch to block out others' traffic.

NOTE: The mic element on the radio and waterproof mic accessories are covered with a membrane. They may sound muddled if you talk on them like you would a speaker phone. Proper technique is required for all radios, but this is one reason why some people think they don't sound that good. Some users trim the membrane (and compromise waterproofing) so uninformed users do better.

It is NOT programmable from the keypad, but that is not a big concern for me. I have a cloning cable/keystroke instructions in every kit. Cloning ensures:
- Every radio is programmed the same, no room for errors
- One automated process instead of repeated keystrokes

You can also buy a programming cable off e-bay. The programming software can be downloaded a few places as well.

A $100 voice inversion module can be installed on the radios for better security. It's a form of scrambling, but not really scrambling or encryption.

Note that the HX-400 is supposed to replace the 370S. The 400 is larger, has a bigger battery and has built-in speech inversion function. It is also about 50% more expensive.

The stock rubber duck antenna that comes with the 370S is OK. I prefer the Comet SMA24, it is noticeably better.

I have the VC-24 (vox headset) and MH-66 speaker/mics. 

Tools such as comm and firearms are two areas I do not skimp. The HX series is my radio version of the Glock. I don't need a $3k Les Baer, and I don't want a $250 Hi-Point.


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## dbarnhart (Feb 9, 2014)

If you are thinking of a radio that is going to live in your vehicle and be used only in times of emergency then:

1. You want something that uses alkaline batteries instead of rechargeables.

2. You want a radio with a relatively simply user interface - one that you are going to remember how to operate after not touching it for six months.

3. You want a radio with a touch tone pad so you can access autopatch.

I keep an icom V80 in the car for this.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

dbarnhart said:


> If you are thinking of a radio that is going to live in your vehicle and be used only in times of emergency then:
> 
> 1. You want something that uses alkaline batteries instead of rechargeables.
> 
> ...


Excellent choice. Even though I have a HF though UHF rig in the 'burban, I keep an old Icom T2H as a back up for it's alkaline capability and being simple to use.


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## Tradecraft (Mar 3, 2014)

This is a good article to check out:

http://survivalskillcraft.blogspot.com/2013/09/family-emergency-communications-kit.html


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

Tradecraft said:


> This is a good article to check out:
> 
> http://survivalskillcraft.blogspot.com/2013/09/family-emergency-communications-kit.html


That *is* a very helpful article!

Thank you!

I've actually had decent luck with the two UV-5Rs that I have, although I certainly agree with the article in that I wouldn't put them into the same performance category as the Icoms (I have 4).

I'm not sure I completely agree with the article on the programming though. Certainly I use the "Chirp " software, and it's super simple. I do however, like the ability to punch in a frequency manually. It does take a little practice, but the methodology isn't hard to pick up.

One thing I think people should keep in mind though is this:

If you're talking about range, GMRS is probably the wrong frequency choice. At that frequency, thick woods or structure tends to *severely* reduce the signal. I've got a pair of Icom FG-21s and a pair of Icom FG-4011s. In relatively open conditions I can get the 21s to reliably communicate out to nearly 10 miles. Under normal conditions in typical NH woods, we're talking about 2 miles at best. On the water, of course, it *seems* almost unlimited.

The thing is, at least in my plans, *short* range communications; stuff that doesn't propagate a signal much past the folks I'm talking to, is pretty important too! In that regard, my Baufengs seem to fill the bill *fairly* well.... but yes.... the little mag-mount external antennas do make a difference when mobile-to-mobile.

Y.M.M.V.

Thanks again for the link!


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

Oh.....
an update on my first post.....

The wife and I have gotten a little better at using our radios and reading the terrain (a *very* important aspect, we're finding, in using these radios... and the season, due to differences in foliage and atmospheric moisture, seems to make a *hell* of a difference!)

I found a couple inexpensive external antennas for the 5Rs and they came in last week.

They *seem* to make a difference, and for the moment, I'm saying that I'm convinced they do, but we've yet to do actual side-by-side comparisons in similar seasons and conditions.... so the jury is really still out.... In case anyone is interested, if and when we get the chance to do the comparison, I'll post the results here.

-Regards to all.


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## Tradecraft (Mar 3, 2014)

Outpost said:


> I found a couple inexpensive external antennas for the 5Rs and they came in last week.
> 
> They *seem* to make a difference, and for the moment, I'm saying that I'm convinced they do, but we've yet to do actual side-by-side comparisons in similar seasons and conditions.... so the jury is really still out.... In case anyone is interested, if and when we get the chance to do the comparison, I'll post the results here.
> 
> -Regards to all.


With regard to ham radio a good antenna is the key. Generally, the longer the better with handhelds. Additionally, the higher you are the better. This can also increase your ability to hit a repeater if you are using one. If you are not using a repeater a better and longer antenna will help with line of sight simplex communications.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Outpost said:


> Oh.....
> an update on my first post.....
> 
> The wife and I have gotten a little better at using our radios and reading the terrain (a *very* important aspect, we're finding, in using these radios... and the season, due to differences in foliage and atmospheric moisture, seems to make a *hell* of a difference!)
> ...


You may also wish to try a "rat tail". It is just a piece of wire the same length as your antenna, attached to your radio. I found it helps a bit with my HT (purely subjective).


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

THIS!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f5/walking-stick-antenna-2m-70cm-383/

http://w6nbc.com/articles/2013-1QSTwalkingstick.pdf

http://forums.qrz.com/archive/index.php/t-12208.html

http://www.hamuniverse.com/2meter300ohmslimjim.html

http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?383099-300-Ohm-quot-Twin-Lead-quot-Antenna


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