# Gold and Guns



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Interesting article.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/08/daniel-zimmerman/gold-guns-end-world-know/



> I was thinking today about owning gold. I bought a St. Gaudens $20 coin in 1989. Total cost: $1695 including a $300 commission. Today, I checked with several dealers and was offered, tops, $1365. Not a fan of gold. But that got me to thinking&#8230;.
> 
> Many people, including commenters here on TTAG, are adherents to the idea of being prepared for the zombie apocalypse. One constant element is gold. Apparently, the thinking is that gold will always be accepted, and it's better than so-called fiat money.
> 
> ...


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

I think you may need a gun to protect your gold! LOL


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I've never been a big fan of buying precious metals. I believe the only wealth really left is land with access to clean water and resources, the ability and equipment to produce essential goods like food, clothing, etc off of it, and the ability and equipment to protect it all. Add to that a close knit community and that is riches. All other riches will follow those.


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## Kodeman (Jul 25, 2013)

A reliable weapon with plenty of ammo, a good shovel and ax, with a decent piece of land, started a lot of homesteader off back in the day.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

I see gold as a worthwhile investment only for those with liquid assetts of or near $500,000 and above. Gold is a transportable assett that can be used as a hegde against catastrophic loss of all liquidity forever.

The 3 B's are the basics, barter items and skills are the next level, gold would be the last level of preparedness for the very well healed, IMO.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

With all the caveats noted above, I still think precious metals play a role in prepping.

So much analysis goes to the extreme. Yes, gold and silver will not solve all your problems. But also, not every disaster will be a total zombie apocalypse.

I think there are many events where my stock/401k will become worthless, and perhaps even my home "underwater" but gold will still be useful. I look at it as diversifying my savings. If my 401k disappears, and the banks close, and there is a monetary crisis of some form, I still expect there to be a period of time in which gold will have value on a black market when a _formerly_ backed paper currency will have no value. Some people store cash, and I think that is not a bad idea. I also think people should store some silver and some gold..._in addition to_ their other savings, not in place of it.

Just for example, storing a few gold coins mixed in with your normal "change" in your get home bag, when traveling far away, might be a good idea. The coins will likely be mistaken for normal coins...thieves would be looking for paper cash. (You don't have to buy 1 oz. coins, which stand out because they are not normal monetary size. You can buy quarter ounce coins which are about the size of a US nickel.) A few coins could get you necessities, or even a car. I don't know if this is true, but I have heard that fighter pilots carry a gold coin or two in order to secure assistance from locals if shot down.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Also, can I say this: The guy who wrote the article really got taken with his initial purchase. In 1989, gold was trading at about $500/oz, and he paid over 3 times that.

Also, I'm not sure pre-1933 gold should have been his first option. He probably should have bought modern bullion, which would trade at the value of the gold content, and not have any collector value. He would have earned good value on his purchase.

I don't think there will be much "collector value" in the zombie apocalypse which he mentions. If the gold has any value it all, it will just be the "bullion value."

If you are a first time buyer, do some research. Don't buy from the folks who advertise on TV unless you live in the middle of nowhere...TV metals dealers are VERY expensive. Do some homework. Find a local coin store that deals in bullion. Stop in and visit often. Make small purchases to show your interest, and while you do, ask a lot of questions. I've been making small purchases (by any objective standard), but I've been walking into my local store for 18 months now, and they all know me (by face, not by name...they are too polite to ask my name). They even hold a few coins for me that they know I will buy (when they might have otherwise wholesaled them to a bigger dealer). And, knowing them will help me sell in the future.

Of course, having said all that, I do recognize that just like gold, firearms will also likely never be worth nothing. Firearms can be like gold in that respect. But, gold can be much easier to trade, and diversity of savings is a good thing.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

As it relates to guns, precious metals, and other hard assets, my plan is all of the above.

I just go for whatever the deal is at the time.

E.g.
I don't buy gold but silver is right at $20/oz. For me, that's a hold. It's a buy below $18/oz.

Remember how gun/ammo prices spiked after Sandy Hook? For me, that was a hold or even sell stuff (I kick myself for not selling but at the time, nobody knew for sure what would happen long-term). Things have since calmed down. I got a call last night from an old friend who used to own a gun store. He wants to thin out his personal collection (the good stuff!). I'm going to go visit to see what he has and if there's deals to be made.

Every hard asset will have a place if things go bad.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You should be fully prepared before you buy gold. That includes having your guns and ammo already. When you buy precious metals you should start with junk silver coins, 1 oz coins, and then 1/10 oz gold coins. If you have a lot of money to work with then start buying a lot of 1 oz gold coins. Or a lot of 1 kg silver coins.

We're nearing the end of the fiat money system around the world. The next financial system will be based on gold and silver. Most likely, other resources like oil and copper as well. I expect we'll see gold backed Chinese and Russian currencies, a Saudi or Iranian oil backed currency, a Chilean currency backed by copper, and so on.

Gold has never been illegal to own in Canada. I wouldn't surrender my gold to the government. It would be pretty easy to dig a hole and bury it in the ground somewhere within a mile of where I live. Or take it over the Canadian border to sell it.

Gold will remain a store of value just like it has for the last 5000 years. It's easy to imagine a small local economy trading in small amounts of gold. You have a fisherman, a farmer, someone with fruit trees, someone who robs graves for a living for their gold, and some laborers. The grave robber buys food and fish with gold fillings and gold jewelry. Laborers are paid in food and/or gold. The fisherman is paid in food and/or gold. 

In 1933 FDR issued an executive order banning the private ownership of gold. The government bought the gold and then sold it for twice as much. I think today people would be smarter than that. They wouldn't turn in their gold simply because the president declared gold ownership illegal. Most likely, those who turn it in would still get half of it's value. Which still might be much more than it is today based on current prices. Jim Willie said recently that countries are in talks to change pricing in international trade agreements from dollars to gold with the new gold price expected to be $5000 an ounce. And the new silver price expected to be $300 an ounce.

The federal government never made silver ownership illegal. You can buy 1 kg Australian coins for about the price of a half ounce gold coin. You could have $50,000 in savings stored in 70 1-kg silver coins. 

What are you supposed to do if you're fully prepared and you still have $20,000 in savings? Are you supposed to keep in fiat currency so it can be devalued to 0? Would you buy a bunch of extra guns and tons of extra ammo? Or should you buy a variety of precious metals? Guns and ammo are neither liquid nor portable. 

I think there are a number of fallacies that are typical in articles like this. It's always presented as an either-or. Either you have guns and food or you have gold. That's stupid. Only a moron would own just gold and not be prepared with everything else.

Refugees who took diamonds with them did a lot better than those who didn't have them. Jews fleeing the Nazis used to sew gold coins in their clothing. That worked well for them. It's stupid to pretend that jewels and precious metals can't protect you.

I think there's a sour grapes mentality too. People who can't afford to own gold want to pretend that gold isn't valuable anyway. 

And of course the example of losing money on a collector's coin is really an intellectually dishonest example to start with. Or the guy is showing how stupid he is when it comes to gold investing. Gold was $409 at the 
end of 1989. Gold is about $1350 today. It should be obvious to anyone that gold has been a great investment over that time.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

One of these might be just what it takes to get your family somewhere safe in the future if you needed to get in or out of somewhere.










Black markets run on these types of things.

Easily hidden on a person, sewed into a coat lining, hem of pants, etc.

Damn pretty to look at too!


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

LastOutlaw said:


> One of these might be just what it takes to get your family somewhere safe in the future if you needed to get in or out of somewhere.
> ...
> Easily hidden on a person, sewed into a coat lining, hem of pants, etc.


And, as you allude, a lot less weight to carry than the nearly 5 pounds of silver with equivalent value!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

The article had a number of false arguments. Those have been pointed out previously so I won't belabor the point. 

Arguably, gold does not fluctuate much. For example, in the 1800's a fine suit might cost about an ounce of gold. Today a fine suit might cost close to an ounce of gold. Now, the value of the dollar does fluctuate ever since Nixon took us off the gold standard.

How many times have I heard, "gold will have no value"? When in history has that ever been true? Another is, "would you sell your last loaf of bread for an ounce of gold?" You bet I would, if I knew where to buy a hundred pounds of rice for that same ounce.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm with guns and ammo..oh yea tobacco and beer..toilet paper..and food and water..


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

The author was flawed also by the fact that though he mentioned the gov banning gold he never said anything about the gov banning guns (a very real possibility). Especially the ban of 'modern sporting rifles'. The gov could also ban ammo. Like with all prep items do not put all your eggs in one basket.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Buy PMs with fiat paper money (FPM) to retain some wealth?

To keep the math simple so I can understand.

I spend $100 FPM to purchase $100 of PM.

Over a period of time with inflation it now costs $150 FPM to purchase $150 of PM. I sell the $100 PM I had bought earlier and I'm paid $150 FPM. I didn't risk loosing any wealth. I broke even.

If the government offers a "buy back" and/or outlaws ownership. The government/black market will offer below market value. I'm in the red, I did preserve some wealth.

If I guess right and buy low and sell high; after taxes on the profits I could be in the black.

The only way I see PMs would be of a benefit to me is during the first few days of TEOTWAWKI. Enable me get/purchase/bribe my way home and then only if I was heavily armed and diligent on whom I offered PM to. Otherwise I may be setting myself up to be robbed or worse.

I'll agree with the previous posts. Get your higher priority preps in place first before purchasing any lower priority PMs.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

My Grand parents stored their wealth in cash around the house because the banks collapsed and couldn't be trusted after the Great Depression. But keep in mind that the dollar was actually backed in gold back then so the dollar itself was secure.

Jump ahead 85 years, the dollar is worthless fiat fabric and not backed in Gold anymore. What is not trust worthy now is the government and the dollar itself. In 2016, the only way to protect yourself is with a recognizable global "money", Gold and Silver.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

BillS hit it dead on, fill every cabinet with survival supplies BEFORE going into metals.
A ++bad bit of news, IF it is American minted or smelted with US markings, it IS subject to
confiscation as US property.Buy Canadian, you won't be displeased.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Magus said:


> ...IF it is American minted or smelted with US markings, it IS subject to
> confiscation as US property.Buy Canadian, you won't be displeased.


Why would US-stamped coins be subject to confiscation, but Canadian coins (or private rounds, or bars, or jewelry, for that matter) not be subject to confiscation?

If the government gets in a mind to confiscate gold, I don't know why they would be so selective. I would think they would take it all.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

We buy;
raw gold
gold boullion
gold coin
numismatic gold
gold jewelry

Numismatic gold and jewelry have always been legal. Some people buy numismatic coin for the express reason of protecting themselves from government seizure. They buy jewelry for the same reason. Tell my mother she has to turn in her wedding ring, I'll buy a ticket for that show. The government knows that certain things will not be tolerated. So if you have gold coins or fractional bullion have bezels or watch bands or other ways to create jewelry out of some of your gold. A tenth or quarter ounce earring or charm. A one ounce fob or neckless can change your gold into a legal possession.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Tacitus said:


> Why would US-stamped coins be subject to confiscation, but Canadian coins (or private rounds, or bars, or jewelry, for that matter) not be subject to confiscation?
> 
> If the government gets in a mind to confiscate gold, I don't know why they would be so selective. I would think they would take it all.


I just did some research. According to the text of FDR's executive order (which seems unconstitutional on its face, but which was upheld by the US courts), all people (citiens or not) who held "gold coin, gold bullion or gold certificates" in the US had to turn them in for a set amount of paper money (a 40% loss for gold owners according to Wikipedia). Looks like it was a bailout for the Federal Reserve, which at that time was required by law to maintain 40% backing of the money by gold...a requirement that has since been eliminated, obviously.

The terms "gold coin" and "gold bullion" were not defined. There was no exception for foreign gold coin.

Note that Executive Order 6814 a few months later ordered all silver to be confiscated, except for silver coins (foreign or domestic), silver less than 80% pure, and a few other exceptions.

Any gold over $100 was subject to confiscation...that's quite a haircut. Kind of a depressing to learn about all this. Pretty shocking that FDR got renominated and reelected after doing this, but I guess that just means that very few people owned gold, and people will allow the government to go after the "rich" (although one prosecution was for a sale of just 13 coins.


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

Precious metals...whether bullion or coin...are pretty low on my list of priorities. You can't drink it, you can't eat it, you can't build a shelter or a fire with it, and you can't shoot it. 

Obviously, I'm a big fan of Maslow's hierarchy - take care of physiological needs (water, food, shelter) and safety. If I've got money to burn after that, maybe some precious metal coins for wealth preservation. But I've been at this for almost 10 years and I have yet to feel adequately prepared with the basics.

Just my two cents on the subject. Your viewpoint may be different and your mileage may vary...


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

In addition to gold and silver, I also put my money into things like sending my kids to college, letting my wife spend money on landscaping (grumble, grumble), maintaining my 401k (such as it is).... Unfortunately, I can't eat or drink my kids' education, or the landscaping, or my 401k...and _*all*_ of those things would be a total waste in a zombie apocalypse.

I like Mazlow's hierarchy as well, but my priorities are guided by it, not dictated by it. I'm not ready to commit to the bottom layer alone, to the exclusion of all else (nor would my wife let me do that). Perhaps that is what allows me to put a small portion of my savings into a super-safe alternative such as gold (which is a prep that is easily hidden from her, and might otherwise turn into woodchips around my trees). My first priority is to preserve my marriage; a secondary priority is to prep for anything...including an event in which gold might be useful...including events in which gold might be useless.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Tacitus said:


> A few coins could get you necessities, or even a car. I don't know if this is true, but I have heard that fighter pilots carry a gold coin or two in order to secure assistance from locals if shot down.


While I agree precious metals can have a place in preps, I don't know that I agree with their usefulness *during* a SHTF event. The big problem with precious metals is the average Joe doesn't know Jack about them. They have no idea how to tell a real pm coin from a fake & they have no idea what the value of any pm coin is. For those reasons, trading pm's for goods or services with the average person during a SHTF isn't likely to happen IMO. Their usefulness is in preserving wealth to have after the event is over & society is rebuilt.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> The big problem with precious metals is the average Joe doesn't know Jack about them. They have no idea how to tell a real pm coin from a fake & they have no idea what the value of any pm coin is. For those reasons, trading pm's for goods or services with the average person during a SHTF isn't likely to happen IMO. Their usefulness is in preserving wealth to have after the event is over & society is rebuilt.


This is a great point. I have thought about writing a tutorial (if I had the time) for this forum. I wish I could educate my co-workers and friends on this, but I wouldn't dare, because I don't want people to know that I buy PMs...

...which raises another interesting point: As little as people know about gold and silver, they do know there is value there. If they find out I have them, many people will try to steal them from me.

My thought is that people know about things that are important to them, and once PMs become important, they will find out about them quickly by word of mouth. They don't know the details right now, but they will see the value when that value becomes important to them. From reading about the surviving the economic collapse in Argentina, I tend to think that people get educated very quickly on this in an economic crisis. Ferfal points out that gold buying businesses in Argentina increased 5-fold, and people would hold wealth in metal, and sell only what they needed for cash at each moment, because cash was losing its value too quickly, but gold was not. He also points out that there are phases in a crisis: cash is king first; then, after a period of time, precious metals become more important.

But note also: I wouldn't have started buying gold or silver if I hadn't already prepped on other things first. And, I'm basically trying to diversify my savings, since only a very small percentage of it is in metals. I don't want to give people the impression that I'm going 100% into metals. That would be crazy.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I kinda go back and forth on the value of having PM's. I now look at them as something you can buy if you have extra cash and everything else is already covered. Because what to do with extra cash? First are the three B's of course and then there is having some regular cash on your person and a fair stash at home. Then what to do if you still have extra cash? If you have enough then buying a homestead is great but that is a Big investment that requires both a pile of cash and a big shift in lifestyle for most folks. So I put some extra cash into silver coin. If I had enough I would certainly rather put it towards a homestead but I just don't have enough to make that big jump. I no longer trust the stock market so I have almost totally dropped out of that. I do not trust the banks but still have the bulk of my money there. I would bury it in the back yard but I am getting forgetful and that might not work out for me


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Here's a solution to having both PM's and ammo, silver bullets! Easy to hide around the house, easy to spend (maybe even reuseable in certain situations) and easy to transport.

Now that's dual purposing...


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I bet they would mushroom nicely


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Extra cash.... don't know that I've ever had such a thing. Always something. Hay, a goat, Dr Peppers. ...


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Silver bullets....

My first thought was Keemosobbie and Tonto, and a big white horse named HiHo.:dunno:

Then my next thought was , how to eliminate a Werewolf..


Then a nice stash to have on hand in shtf .



Jim


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I've never had extra money I didn't know what to do with. Hiwall, I'll pm you my address & you can just send me your extra money! .


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

fteter said:


> Precious metals...whether bullion or coin...are pretty low on my list of priorities. You can't drink it, you can't eat it, you can't build a shelter or a fire with it, and you can't shoot it.
> 
> Obviously, I'm a big fan of Maslow's hierarchy - take care of physiological needs (water, food, shelter) and safety. If I've got money to burn after that, maybe some precious metal coins for wealth preservation. But I've been at this for almost 10 years and I have yet to feel adequately prepared with the basics.
> 
> Just my two cents on the subject. Your viewpoint may be different and your mileage may vary...


Well.... you can shoot it, but it would be costly.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

crabapple said:


> Well.... you can shoot it, but it would be costly.


It's not that bad, if my math is right...

55 grain silver bullet is 0.125714 of an ounce. Spot price of an ounce of silver is $19.78. So that bullet would cost about $2.49.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

hiwall said:


> I kinda go back and forth on the value of having PM's. I now look at them as something you can buy if you have extra cash and everything else is already covered. Because what to do with extra cash? First are the three B's of course and then there is having some regular cash on your person and a fair stash at home. Then what to do if you still have extra cash? If you have enough then buying a homestead is great but that is a Big investment that requires both a pile of cash and a big shift in lifestyle for most folks. So I put some extra cash into silver coin. If I had enough I would certainly rather put it towards a homestead but I just don't have enough to make that big jump. I no longer trust the stock market so I have almost totally dropped out of that. I do not trust the banks but still have the bulk of my money there. I would bury it in the back yard but I am getting forgetful and that might not work out for me


There are dangers with holding cash. Especially now with all the money printing by the Federal Reserve and the talk of "helicopter money". There's been talk of overnight devaluations of the dollar by people like Rob Kirby, Lindsey Williams, and Jim Willie.

If I had a big bank account I'd keep a certain amount of cash in my house. Let's say $2000 or $3000. I'd put the rest in physical silver that I hold in my home. I'd start with 100 face value dollars in junk silver. That would mean a hundred sets of 4 quarters or 10 dimes. That would equal about 70 troy ounces of silver in small coin form. Then if I had a lot more money I'd buy 100 1-ounce Canadian Maple Leaf coins. After that I'd have half of my silver in 1-kg Australian coins and the rest split between one ounce coins and junk silver.

Then as I built my savings I'd buy more silver or I'd buy 1/10 oz gold coins in $500 increments.


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## chaosjourney (Nov 1, 2012)

Great thoughts in this thread! Several years ago, I decreased my 401k contributions and began buying some silver each month. I try to buy at least an ounce of gold every year as well. I don't do this as a shtf prep, but because I feel that it is a responsible way to save for retirement these days. Our monthly prepping budget shifts between various types of items, but our monthly silver purchases are consistent. My wife hopes to sell it or trade it all for a retirement condo in Florida in 25 years or so. I giggle and pray that she gets her wish.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

chaosjourney said:


> Great thoughts in this thread! Several years ago, I decreased my 401k contributions and began buying some silver each month. I try to buy at least an ounce of gold every year as well. I don't do this as a shtf prep, but because I feel that it is a responsible way to save for retirement these days. Our monthly prepping budget shifts between various types of items, but our monthly silver purchases are consistent. My wife hopes to sell it or trade it all for a retirement condo in Florida in 25 years or so. I giggle and pray that she gets her wish.


I have always saved for retirement through traditional means, such as the 401K, investments, savings. Last year I did a little numbers crunching and found that if I had just put every penny of my retirement money from the 1971 to 2001 into Gold, I would be 25% ahead of where I am now.

What is strange is that when I wasn't making much money in the 70's and only putting a few hundred dollars away, it was the same amount needed for one ounce of Gold a month. For the next decade, I was making more money but still was just putting away enough to get a few ounces of Gold a month. My best decade was the 90's, and then I could get anywhere from 4 to 8 ounces a month.

Through a traditional 401K I have to pay taxes on any withdrawal from my retirement plan. If it would have been in Gold, no taxes and I would have never paid even a cent in investment fees.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

BillS said:


> ...If I had a big bank account I'd keep a certain amount of cash in my house. Let's say $2000 or $3000. I'd put the rest in physical silver that I hold in my home. I'd start with 100 face value dollars in junk silver. That would mean a hundred sets of 4 quarters or 10 dimes. That would equal about 70 troy ounces of silver in small coin form. Then if I had a lot more money I'd buy 100 1-ounce Canadian Maple Leaf coins. After that I'd have half of my silver in 1-kg Australian coins and the rest split between one ounce coins and junk silver.
> 
> Then as I built my savings I'd buy more silver or I'd buy 1/10 oz gold coins in $500 increments.


The plan you lay out for the big bank account is a good one. I love the "junk" silver, but I prefer Eagles over Maple Leafs...but either work, especially in Wisconsin (and Maple Leafs are usually cheaper than Eagles when buying with US dollars).

My only other thought is that I might move into gold rather than 1-kg silver. Where I live (in the US), I think if people know little about silver and gold, they know even less about the metric system. At least they've heard the word "ounce" before (even if we are actually talking about troy ounces). Thus, I have so far stayed away from bars and coins denoted in grams or kilograms.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Tacitus said:


> The plan you lay out for the big bank account is a good one. I love the "junk" silver, but I prefer Eagles over Maple Leafs...but either work, especially in Wisconsin (and Maple Leafs are usually cheaper than Eagles when buying with US dollars).
> 
> My only other thought is that I might move into gold rather than 1-kg silver. Where I live (in the US), I think if people know little about silver and gold, they know even less about the metric system. At least they've heard the word "ounce" before (even if we are actually talking about troy ounces). Thus, I have so far stayed away from bars and coins denoted in grams or kilograms.


Tacticus, you bring up a good point. It has been brought up previously but the way you stated it struck a chord with me. Does anyone have a good primer on precious metals? Preferably something small that we could put up on our bookshelf or print out and put in our prepping binder. While most of us know the basics many don't and we may be in the situation where we need to become teachers. It should contain a section on how to detect forgeries.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

The first thing I'd recommending keeping a copy of is the melt values for coins from coinflation.com
Use that for your junk silver coins for values.


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## Rusty58 (Jul 26, 2016)

You Tube has the best and quickest reference on how to detect fake coins. Mostly it involves weighing, checking with magnets, visual clues and the sound of some coins when they're dropped on a hard surface.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

ZoomZoom said:


> The first thing I'd recommending keeping a copy of is the melt values for coins from coinflation.com
> Use that for your junk silver coins for values.


How do you keep a copy of melt values if the values change daily?

Are you talking about the silver content of different coinage?

While I own bars and rounds my personal favorite is Junk coins.
No one is going to counterfeit old worn silver coins pre 1965. They will be recognized as what they are immediately.

Silver bars can be faked as well as new silver rounds or silver dollars.
Larger bars will need to be drilled and tested to insure there isnt other materials inside or even fake bars coated with real silver.

Fake gold bars filled with tungsten have been discovered by both the UK and China in the past. See below:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article14996.html


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

LastOutlaw said:


> How do you keep a copy of melt values if the values change daily?


For keeping a copy in the records, I just set the silver value to $10/oz. If it's $25 on a given day, I just multiply the coin value by 2.5


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Rusty58 said:


> You Tube has the best and quickest reference on how to detect fake coins. Mostly it involves weighing, checking with magnets, visual clues and the sound of some coins when they're dropped on a hard surface.


Now, that I have a few of the different types a gold coins. I can say that they all make a distinct sound when dropped on a solid surface that is different from any other coin. Plus the weight is a help, because it gold one ounce coins are smaller the one ounce silver coins and the feel of gold is unlike any other coin.

Collecting gold (and Silver coins) can be habit forming because of this.


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## azrancher (Jan 30, 2014)

Tweto said:


> Last year I did a little numbers crunching and found that if I had just put every penny of my retirement money from the 1971 to 2001 into Gold, I would be 25% ahead of where I am now.


And now calculate where you would be if you had put that all into the S&P 500.... it will be an eye opener.

*Rancher*


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

azrancher said:


> And now calculate where you would be if you had put that all into the S&P 500.... it will be an eye opener.
> 
> *Rancher*


I was comparing my retirement 401K and IRA (that was entirely invested during that time Vs just buying Gold with the money that I put into the 401K and the IRA.

Some was invested in the S&P 500.


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