# CPS Takes Baby



## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I wasn't sure which topic to put this in so forgive me if it should be someplace else. This video should scare the ever-loving crap out of every parent in this country!!






This strikes more fear in me than pretty much any national emergency of all types.


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## katen (Aug 25, 2012)

My heart breaks for these parents...wow...I have no words.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Very sad. And it's going to get worse as the US continues to socialize the healthcare industry. Like someone said in the video comments (and I am paraphrasing); you can kill the baby inside of you but you can't ask for a second opinion.

I will add that in the middle of the US it is very difficult to take a child away from his/her parents and it requires documented approval from several people and agencies. I have tried to get social service to take children out of dangerous situations and they wouldn't because the evidence just did not meet the burden. I would have been laughed out of chambers if I would come in with the case described in that video.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Wow ..

http://www.news10.net/news/article/242914/2/Couple-still-unclear-why-CPS-took-their-baby-



> SACRAMENTO, CA - When Alex and Anna Nikolayev learned they would have a second one-hour visit Friday at the hospital with their baby boy Sammy, the news came as the one happy moment to cap off a difficult day.
> 
> "It's like everything in your stomach is turning and then you see his toothless smile and it kills everything in you ," Anna said, "It was nice. At least for one hour."
> 
> ...


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-parents-wanting-second-opinion-sick-son.html



> The parents of a 5-month-old were shocked when police showed up to take away their infant boy after they told a doctor they wanted a second opinion.
> 
> Caught on camera, the footage shows police entering the California home of Anna and Alex Nikolayev and asking Anna to hand over the baby.
> 
> ...


Hope to read good news on Monday!


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

When you have goverment agencies empowered destroy families and dedicated to takkng children, who get bigger budgets and grow if they take more kids, what do you expect? This recently happened to my son in Encinitas, CA. The young mother had been taking *Doctor prescribed* pain medication for migraines. There were traces of pain medication in the infant when he was born, so CPS came in, lied to everyone involved and took the baby. Fortunately young mom's father has a few bucks and I stressed to him that if he wanted his grandson he needed to get a GOOD lawyer, one who specializes in this sort of law, RIGHT DAMNED NOW! He did so, she really *is *a good lawyer, and she and the Doctors' testimony turned CPS inside out. My boy has his son at home.

But CPS counts on the fact that most of the people from whom they seize children are young and poor and cannot mount a good defense. I've been through this crap with my sister and her kid years ago; I think it's a good part of what unhinged her and has made her a paranoid and less than fully functional person to this day (her son is in his late 30's and doing fine). Yes, the Deputy came in with CPS and NO warrant, in full knowledge that only immediate risk of grievous harm justifies such behavior (and knowledge that the alleged dangerous parent was not present) just intimidated a babysitter and took the kid. CPS would not even give my sister a straight answer as to where he was or whether he was alive. BTW, this all happened because my sister cussed out a grade school Principal who couldn't handle her kid when he acted up. She only got her kid back because the kid realized CPS had been lying to him, and when he's unhappy *nobody around him is happy*. 

My father was writing a small town newspaper column when the above happened. He wrote about CPS. The Assistant Attorney General for my State called (nothing on paper) the attorney Dad had hired for Sis, told him to "tell that old fart stop writing about CPS or he'll never see his grandson again," then intimidated the attorney into dropping his client under the most unfavorable circumstances possible. Eventually the CPS agent involved had run up a record of so many of these horrors that she swapped departments and spent her time declaring old people incompetent and seizing their assets.

NEVER underestimate the power of these people. NEVER answer their questions. ALWAYS get the very best lawyer in this field that you can find, ASAP. Remember, to them parents are the enemy and they have unlimited resources.

Oh, and one thing they tend to do in my state is every couple of years or so they release a child back into a VERY dangerous home and when he's beaten to death they get lots of media publicity, transfer the agent involved and plead that it's all because they don't have enough budget, they need more money "for the children." Watch for horrific abuse stories around budget time in your state. Look behind the story. You and I cannot imagine using beaten, tortured or murdered children as a tool to get more money, but many of the "people" in the CPS field truly are this evil.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

> 'I'm going to grab your baby,' one of the several officers at the scene told Nikolayev, 'And don't resist and don't fight me.'


That police officer can count his blessing that he was dealing with "civilized" people because if he encountered uncivilized people he'd have been shot dead the moment he touched that baby after declaring his intentions to steal it away from the parents. Such death brawls affecting family and honor are common throughout history. You don't steal children because that's a sure way to die.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

I've never had much use for CPS aka half baked social workers who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

Wow.. I don't even have the words to begin to state my outrage.. And, I cannot begin to describe what might have taken place if they attempted to take my kid... That being said.... they SHOULD HAVE taken the baby from that hospital correctly and had him discharged properly, but that does NOT give CPS and the cops the right to enter that home and take that child. I would've never opened the door. They would've had to kick it in.. 

:gtfo:


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

I've heard about a lot of cases where children were unjustly removed from their homes because of CPS. If laws were made to change the way they conduct investigations, such as a case having to be brought before a jury of parents for the final decision as to whether or not to remove the child, it might spare some of the children and parents a lot of grief. The problem is that too much power is given to these agencies and often times there is inadequate oversight and an improper system of checks and balances. It can only get worse until enough people get together and put a stop to it.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

http://www.wtsp.com/news/national/a...lls-for-CPS-reforms-after-reuniting-with-baby



> SACRAMENTO, CA (KXTV) - The day after a judge returned custody of a baby taken into protective custody, the parents have been overwhelmed by international attention. However, Alex and Anna Nikolayev said their battle with Child Protective Services is far from over.
> 
> Sammy Nikolayev, 5 months old, was placed in protective custody last week after his mother took him out of Sutter Memorial Hospital against medical advice to get a second opinion from a Kaiser Permanente doctor. The move came as a shock to the couple who had medical records from another doctor clearing Sammy to go home with them.
> 
> ...


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

8thDayStranger said:


> http://www.wtsp.com/news/national/a...lls-for-CPS-reforms-after-reuniting-with-baby


Thanks for that great update!!!!


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Even when CPS is in the wrong, they're still right:

On Monday, a judge returned custody to the parents as long *as they agreed* not to remove Sammy again against medical advice. . . . . . .

Once it's all over, and the baby can come home, *CPS will check in with the couple*. Alex and Anna *had to agree to CPS visits to regain custody*.​
The judge, it seems, privileges the testimony of CPS over the parents. CPS comes into court with an unearned aura of professionalism and their testimony is granted deference.

Then, because they now have leverage over the parents by kidnapping the child and then using the return of the child as a threat, they keep themselves involved and take on the role of judging the parents even in cases where their initial assessment was proved wrong.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Does anyone know, if they moved to another state, would the CPS nightmare follow them? (Yes, even if they have custody of their child now, I still consider it a nightmare that someone else, a government agency, has greater authority than the parents.)


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

As I've said for some time,what is going on here in America is "SCARY".!! If they had come into my home I would have shot them saying I was in fear of my life as I thought these people were trying to kidnap my grand-daughter.When are we going to DO something about this crap.I was a LEO and I see how things were everyday.When the law abiding people are in the minority and if you have money you get away with MURDER...Does OJ come to mind?


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> I will add that in the middle of the US it is very difficult to take a child away from his/her parents and it requires documented approval from several people and agencies. I have tried to get social service to take children out of dangerous situations and they wouldn't because the evidence just did not meet the burden. I would have been laughed out of chambers if I would come in with the case described in that video.


I second this. It's really an outlier case. The state has to accept the costs of placing these children in foster care and the court costs alone come with that are a tremendous burden. The system looks bad when a child dies in cases where there were signs but not enough. It looks bad when they are over protective. Its not a perfect system, but it's done more good than bad. If you want to a good emotional pull search the kids at www.adoptUSkids.org


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I can't imagine CPS showing up to take my baby. I would NEVER let CPS in my home, EVER. If they attempted to enter my home, they would be shot. It would be an unfortunate situation, but under no circumstances would I ever let them take my kid. I would answer questions only through my attorney. I work in a foster home & have regular dealings with CPS case workers (they are required to see each kid once a month, we had 5 kids), most of them are a few bricks short of a load. (I have encountered a few wonderful ones, though.) They are not on your side or your kids side, they cannot be reasoned with. Anything you say to them WILL be twisted & taken out of context. If they take your kids, it can take a LONG time & lots of $$$ to get them back. Your kids will be traumatized. CPS doesn't just take kids from the poor, they do it to other parents who make the mistake of thinking if they just cooperate with CPS, everything will be fine.


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## farmers (Jul 28, 2012)

What I would like to know what time, was it the physician, that put this poor mother thru this horrified ordeal. He needs to go before the State Board of Physicians.
CPS we have a murdered 6 month old niece thanks to them.Not one time did they have her checked by Ped. Dr. she died she had 73 broken bones, some had mende:d. Many bruises. He put a hole in the back of her head, the size of a golf ball, the night she died. I believe it boils down to who you are. We found out years later one of the men who worked in CPS office was a drinking buddy of little Malenia grandfather. As many government agencies , they need to be shut down, and start over.


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## professor (Nov 19, 2012)

I have avoided responding to this thread, but I would like to offer a few comments. First - I would venture to say that I have spent more time talking to people who murdered their children than most of the people on this forum. I can identify fingertip bruises, choke marks by sight and can date them by color. I can tell if a child has been beaten with an electrical cord and whether the plastic coating was removed prior to the beating with a glance. I can look at a CT scan of the brain and tell you, with some degree of accuracy, wether the perpetrator who choked the child was right handed or left handed. I am a very suspicious person for a reason. I have spoken to many families who wished to remove a critically ill child from the hospital because they disagreed with the plan of care - most if the time it is poor communication, but sometimes it is not. 5 years ago a mother took her child out of our hospital - she had been refusing treatment because she would not accept a poor prognosis. We got a court order to keep the child - she got a lawyer, got a stay by telling the judge age would seek a second opinion and took her child out of the building. She did not keep the appointment for the second opinion and left town. I know that child is dead, and I know she suffered - it has been 5 years and I still remember her face as her mother wheeled her out if the building. It is very easy to blame the folks at CPS - and sometimes they are poorly trained and overwhelmed, but there really are evil people who walk among us who do terrible things. They look like us and some of them are well educated and they do truly heinous things to small children. Never assume that a story someone tells you is the truth - the child's body may tell you a very different story. That's my two cents worth! And don't feel sorry for me - I chose to take care of children and I understood that dealing with abuse would be part of the drill. It never gets any easier to see, but I see it as my mission to make sure children are safe.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

professor said:


> I have avoided responding to this thread, but I would like to offer a few comments. First - I would venture to say that I have spent more time talking to people who murdered their children than most of the people on this forum. I can identify fingertip bruises, choke marks by sight and can date them by color. I can tell if a child has been beaten with an electrical cord and whether the plastic coating was removed prior to the beating with a glance. I can look at a CT scan of the brain and tell you, with some degree of accuracy, wether the perpetrator who choked the child was right handed or left handed. I am a very suspicious person for a reason. I have spoken to many families who wished to remove a critically ill child from the hospital because they disagreed with the plan of care - most if the time it is poor communication, but sometimes it is not. 5 years ago a mother took her child out of our hospital - she had been refusing treatment because she would not accept a poor prognosis. We got a court order to keep the child - she got a lawyer, got a stay by telling the judge age would seek a second opinion and took her child out of the building. She did not keep the appointment for the second opinion and left town. I know that child is dead, and I know she suffered - it has been 5 years and I still remember her face as her mother wheeled her out if the building. It is very easy to blame the folks at CPS - and sometimes they are poorly trained and overwhelmed, but there really are evil people who walk among us who do terrible things. They look like us and some of them are well educated and they do truly heinous things to small children. Never assume that a story someone tells you is the truth - the child's body may tell you a very different story. That's my two cents worth! And don't feel sorry for me - I chose to take care of children and I understood that dealing with abuse would be part of the drill. It never gets any easier to see, but I see it as my mission to make sure children are safe.


I'm glad that you responded. Your point is thoughtful and well made. Here's my problem with it though - false positives. The power of CPS is so great that they can intrude into my life and take my children and if they turn out to be wrong, oops, their bad, and next day is a new day and they're unaffected while great trauma and harm has been inflicted upon my family simply because CPS made a mistake.

So, how do we balance the harms that befall innocent children and their families from a too aggressive CPS versus the benefits that accrue to the children who are being harmed and get saved by such aggressive tactics? This same issue is in play with gun control - you may never kill anyone with a firearm but if we confiscate all firearms then we're bound to disarm some of the people who would kill someone in the future.

I don't have much issue with CPS when they make the right call, my issue with them is the collateral damage that they inflict on innocent families as they run roughshod.

I'm not prepared to put my family at risk so that some young child somewhere is saved - the price to my family and to my kids is too high.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

professor, I think you made your point very well and I am seriously not trying to sound insulting here.
The way you speak of your confidence in your ability to diagnose gives me goosebumps, it sounds eerily similar to "experts" I have heard speak in the past like this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Randal_Smith
He was trusted by many, in large part because of the complete lack of doubt he had as an expert witness.
I am not in ANY way saying that you are like him, what I am saying is that he was like you in the public and court's eyes, they trusted him for years and people went to prison let alone lost their kids.

Some will of course say "They caught him in the end", well I can tell you that is little comfort to those affected, and I can also say, "On what basis should we believe that he is the only one."


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

> So, how do we balance the harms that befall innocent children and their families from a too aggressive CPS versus the benefits that accrue to the children who are being harmed and get saved by such aggressive tactics?


Simple, CPS can't just willy nilly do what they want. The court has to balance it and find reasonable evidence. When immediate danger is present, law enforcement officials may be called and weigh in on the situation as well. This is a sensationalized case for the media because its out of the norm, just like the little boy with the facebook picture.

And equating this to gun control is a low tactic that I thought you were above. You know all an over whelming majority of the folks on here see gun control as complete public disarmament. What is the government really trying to take all kids away too?

Professor, Good job adding some thought to the boards even if they tend to go against the grain. I'm glad you can do your job, because I sure couldn't. I can't stand when I get called for autotopsy identifications. Give me a person whose of breathing bloody mess and I'll do fine and give it my all.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I take care of the kids who have been beaten or neglected to the point that they are medically fragile. When someone can do that to a child, often their own child, that's pure evil, just like professor said. 

I think a lot of the abuses by CPS could be avoided if a judge could be made available immediately to hear the situation. That would've worked in the case of this baby. The parents could've explained the situation to the judge, the hospitals could've answered questions/ verified information & the baby would've went home with the parents.

I have to disagree with the professor on one thing, I think the buck stops with the parents. They have to have the right to refuse any treatment, no matter what. There are no perfect answers where we can prevent 100% of abuse & neglect. The only choice we have is parents have final say or government has the final say & I'm just not comfortable with the latter.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

drfacefixer said:


> Simple, CPS can't just willy nilly do what they want. The court has to balance it and find reasonable evidence.


In many situations a judge comes into the picture after the fact and the damage has been done. Look at what happened here, the judge imposed conditions on the parents, CPS held the baby hostage until the parents agreed to CPS oversight.



> And equating this to gun control is a low tactic that I thought you were above.


This is like calling me a racist because you don't like my argument. For your criticism to have any bite you have to explain to me, and to all, WHY the equation is misleading. As I noted the focus of my concern is on false positives and gun control advocates, like CPS advocates, don't really focus on false positives, they focus on the prevention of harm. If they can save the life of one child by being overly aggressive and racking up a field of false positives, then what counts is the life saved. This same type of reasoning applies to gun control advocates, if they can save the life of one person by removing a gun from the hands of a would-be killer, then the confiscation of guns from legions of law abiding citizens is worth doing.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Sounds to me like CPS WON!
The child will be scarred for life.
My mentally ill wife kidnaped my children with the help of
CPS! twice!
Today my son will not speak to her and my adult daughter has told
me she is not angry with me but she wishes I had made her
Mother go away ( read dissapear)when she was 6.


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