# Air rifle, got one?



## OldCootHillbilly

I was thinking a decent air rifle might not be bad ta have in the stockpile. Can be bought fer a decent price, ammo be cheap, you could take tree rats, rabbits an birds fer some extra meat in the pot.

A bonus, there fairly quite.

What yall say an got? 

Grew up with one, ain't had one in years, but thought it might be a good idear.


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## carlnet

I tried a number of the air rifles from Wal-Mart. I found them to be fun, possessing good power, but highly inaccurate (and no I do not expect 1 MOA out of an air riffle. Grin). If anyone has a good review of an air riffle that did not cost in the thousands I would love to hear of it so I can buy one!


Carl.


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## horseman09

I have a cheapy Walmart too. Yup. Lots of power, poor accuracy even with pellets. I too would like to find a good one at a reasonable price.

I've often thought an air rifle could come in handy even in certain home/property defense situations. Think about it -- someone's prowling about outside in a SHTF situation, but is not a direct threat. Do ya really wanna kill him/her if you could deal with him non-leathally? If things return to near-normal in a few months, are you going to be held accountable? What do you do with the corpse? What if she turns out to be your mother-in-law............Hey!  lol 

A single pellet to the thigh -- or where ever -- could send him howling on his way without the complications of a body in your yard. If the pellet from the airgun doesn't do the job, a bunch of pellets from the 12 ga. could then resolve the situation once and for all.


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## carlnet

After hurricane Andrew Dade county provided free anonymous body pickup. All you had to do was drag the body to the curb. So depending on the disaster you may not have to worry about what to do with the body...


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## lexsurivor

Lewis and clark used strong air rifles to hunt with on their journey. They used them because they were quiet.


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## NaeKid

Wildmist has a competition grade air-pistol (it cost the same as my 12ga shotgun) that I can hit bulls-eye with from 25 yards away (consistantly) using only its iron-sights. Using kill-shot I could probably get some small critters for dinner - haven't tried yet. 

Hmm, another item for the bucket-list ..


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## ZoomZoom

I recently picked up a couple Hammerli .177 pellet guns. They're very accurate and push the lead down-range at 1000 FPS.

I got mine from Midway USA on sale but they're now out of them.

A place I've been using for accessories and ammo that has good info, reviews and prices is Air guns, BB Guns, Pellet Guns and Air Rifles from Crosman, Gamo, Walther and Beeman - PyramydAir.com They also have lightning fast shipping (at least when I ordered from them).


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## mosquitomountainman

Okay, I have a Beeman dual caliber air rifle combo I bought at WalMart. It has interchangeable barrels (one in .177 and one in .22 calibers). I like it and have used it to shoot rabbits and squirrels around the cabin when didn't want to worry about ricochets from a 22 rifle. It is not a match quality rifle but accuracy is pretty good. Every critter killed was hit in the head at ranges of 20 feet to 20 yards. While I like the Beeman air rifle I would not get the dual caliber again. It was just extra money and every time you switch barrels you have to sight it in again. I would opt for the 22 caiber. The velocity is slower but it kills better/faster than the 177 caliber. (Although the 177 does a pretty good job killing too.)

Some things to know about air rifles: First - it takes approximately 10,000 rounds for one to reach it's ultimate accuracy. Second - the quality of the pellets make a BIG difference. Third - when you get over 1,000 fps velocity it's more difficult to keep it accurate and velocities over this aren't really necessary. Fourth - there are large caliber air rifles for hunting big game such as deer and wild hogs but they are not cheap and they are definitely not quiet. 

Another thing about air rifles is that you can practice in your living room by shooting into a tightly stacked box of old newspapers. 

If I wanted an accurate yet quiet big game killer I'd use a crossbow. The range is almost as good as a HP air rifle but they are cheaper, quieter and more convenient to shoot (you don't have to pump up an air chamber to 1,000 plus psi).


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## TechAdmin

I have an old crossman pump, before they started using plastic, and I love it. I also keep a few thousand BBs and pellets around. It's fun to just go in the back yard and shoot cans, but in a pinch it can kill rodents, which I will gladly eat in a disaster.


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## mosquitomountainman

Dean said:


> I have an old crossman pump, before they started using plastic, and I love it. I also keep a few thousand BBs and pellets around. It's fun to just go in the back yard and shoot cans, but in a pinch it can kill rodents, which I will gladly eat in a disaster.


I've got one of those too. It's rated at 750 fps with ten pumps but it will hit almost 900 fps with 18 pumps (I shot it through the chronograph). Pretty good little rifle.


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## ZoomZoom

mosquitomountainman said:


> (you don't have to pump up an air chamber to 1,000 plus psi).


How many pumps do you need on your Beeman?

On the ones I have, it's one.


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## mosquitomountainman

It takes one stroke to set the spring. (Spring piston design.) After that, load, aim and shoot!


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## nj_m715

I was in a competition when I was a boyscout. They gave us large HEAVY air rifles with a large lever on the side. Pulling the lever charged the gun and opened the breach. You had to place one shot at a time in the chamber. After the pellet was loaded you pushed back the handle and took your shoot. I don't know the make, but I would consider getting one. They were fast and very accurate, but they didn't seem cheap at all. They felt like a real gun compaired to the crossman toys we grew up with. 

I've also fired a nice one that broke open at the barrel "shot gun style". It opened, charged it and again you loaded one shot. Not as nice as the competition rifles, but still felt like it was quality built. I wish I knew the names so I could track them down. 

Loading each shot could be a pain, but the single charging action made up for it. Those old ten pump guns drove me nuts. 

I don't think I'd drop $1,000 for an air rifle. I could add an ar to the closet fo that, but I'd do $3-400 some something good enough to put a rabbit or duck in the pot and have relatively safe fun with my son.


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## mosquitomountainman

Most of the spring piston rifles are adult weapons. It doesn't take a $1,000.00 rifle to put meat on the table. My Beeman will do that easy. If you want a competition rifle then you'll need to pay more but to hit a rabbit in the head at 20 yards you don't need a match quality rifle.

These are every bit as deadly at close range as a 22 rifle. Don't let your kids use them thinking they are "toy" guns.


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## nj_m715

I'll have to look them up. The other issueis that my F-ed up state conciders them firearms because our law gas powered projectile or something like that. I'm not paying for a backround check for amounts to a kids toy ( I understand what you above ) but it's not a gun. I'll need to get lucky at a yardsale or flee market.


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## NaeKid

nj_m715 said:


> I'll have to look them up. The other issueis that my F-ed up state conciders them firearms because our law gas powered projectile or something like that. I'm not paying for a backround check for amounts to a kids toy ( I understand what you above ) but it's not a gun. I'll need to get lucky at a yardsale or flee market.


I believe that anyone that wants a gun of any sort that isn't powered by gun-powder can own one (in Canada) without a background check. Now, can you go out-of-state (or out of country) and pick one up and bring it back home without needing that background check?


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## carlnet

nj_m715 you bring up a really good point! In some states and many countries BB and Pellet gins are considered firearms. It would seem that in your state, NJ the mere possession of an unregistered pellet gun get you an automatic 3 years in prison with no parole and because you are now a felon you can no longer own a real firearm or vote. Yikes!

Another interesting twist on the BB and pellet gun story is in many cities they have laws prohibiting the discharge of a firearm. And depending on how they define "firearm" shooting a BB or pellet gun could put you on the wrong side of that law once again putting you in prison or jail.


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## nj_m715

If I wanted a bb pistol I need to go get the permit needed for a real pistol. But we have voluntary rifle registration here, so anyone who has a firearm ID card can make a private sale to anyone else who has an ID card. It's best to get a copy of all their info so if it's used in a crime and the law comes a knocking you can show where it went.

Of course I can illegaly obtain a bb pistol, but I could also go get an ak off the street too. by the letter of the law and depending on the common sence of the officer, I could be in the same trouble for either weapon. 

I think I could own a bb rifle, with my ID card legally because of the voluntary registration, buy if I want to get one from the store I need to pay for a check. That's why I'll looking at the flee markets. No need to get jammed up over a kid's toy.


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## hank2222

i have a walther lg 300.xt wood stock match air rifle but that more for personal enjoyemt use after the shtf along with haveing a scope attched for takeing out the garden pest from the front pouch with it on a rest ..

it stange how some of the states treat there people over a weapon that can not be use againest a person very well .. couple of weeks ago i got stoped for a 3 miles over the speed limit and was pull out of the car after telling the one officer that i had a air rifle in a locked case in the vehicle ..when the one officer asked me where was the keys for it.. the other officer was like saying to the guy why do you need the keys. for i had three locks on the rifle case two where on the latchs and one on the handle ..so i was not going be opening that case fast..but it goes to show how much some officer do not trust you with owning a weapon


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## carlnet

hank2222,
I have a concealed weapons permit just in case I ever get pulled over on the way to the range. Last thing I want is an officer with an overactive imagination roughing me up for something stupid. And out of curiosity why did you tell them you had your rifle? It is none of their business what you have in your car and they also have no right to look in your car unless they think a crime is being committed. If they stop you for speeding thank them for reminding you to keep an eye on your speedometer because there could be children anywhere. But keep the conversation on the speed not extraneous things like the box of doughnuts you have in the back seat.

And if I get asked if I have a weapon I always tell then I regularly transport my (insert some pistol I take to the range here) but as I am not on the way to the range I do not have it with me today. Then I go into a friendly discussion of some of the more bizarre weapons used throughout history and about that time they really want to go do something else... Big Grin.


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## hank2222

i live and work right now in southern ca area .. as everyone know ca is a bad place for firearm owners..

one of the basic question they ask you when beening stoped is any weapon in the car or drugs ..

i also have a ccw permit from the state of Tx and Az so i will tell them that this a weapon in the car..


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## mosquitomountainman

hank2222 said:


> i live and work right now in southern ca area .. as everyone know ca is a bad place for firearm owners..
> 
> one of the basic question they ask you when beening stoped is any weapon in the car or drugs ..
> 
> i also have a ccw permit from the state of Tx and Az so i will tell them that this a weapon in the car..


Are you required to answer them?!!! Would it be illegal to have a firearm in your possession? If it's legal, then why would anyone tell them about it? If not, what happened to the 5th Amendment?

In Montana, if it's in your vehicle you have the same right to privacy as if it was in your house (as long as it's stored out of sight). If they want to search my vehicle they better get a warrant.


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## nj_m715

Well, honesty is the best policy, IF you are legal. It's legal to carry a weapon in your car as long as you do it correctly, ccw or not. If it's a legal weapon for the state that you are in and it's locked in a case in the trunk and the ammo is stored somewhere else you should be fine. Here in NJ wrapping a rifle in a towel and tieing it closed can count as being "cased"

I know my p/u truck or suv doen't have a trunk, How should I do it. Use your common sence and hopefully the officer will too. Just make it as difficult to reach, load and fire the weapon as you can. 

Put the cased weapon behind the p/u seat in all the way in the back of the suv and lock tne ammo in the glove box. Problem solved.

In NJ you need a good reason to be trandporting your weapon, like going to the gunsmith or range. We can not just toss it in the car and go grocery shopping. 

Of course other states are different. And be advised that ccw are not recognized in every stated. I do believe that some state have a reciprocation program, but I'm no expert. Make sure you know the law where you are going and the laws for the states that you are traveling through to avoid trouble.

In many states, like here in NJ a warrant is not always needed because of the time required to get a warrant and inherent mobile nature of a vehicle. If you give them probable cause to search your vehicle they can.


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## mosquitomountainman

Warrentless searches just bug me ... wouldn't matter whether I'm "legal" or not. (I'm always legal.) The first thing I always ask when I'm pulled over is the reason they pulled me over. If they want to search any vehicle of mine they better have a legal reason for doing so.

When we start voluntarily surrendering our "rights" we begin losing them.


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## nj_m715

They don't happen all the time, it's more of a smelling burnt marijuana or seeing an illegal item in plain sight sort of thing. In NJ they have the right to request a search from any body and we have the right to refuse. But if something, like the smell of weed coming from car, gives them the probable cause for a search, than there's no need for them to get a warrant and we cann't refuse the search. 

It's understandable to me. With out laws like that you might as well tie the hands of the police.


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## gds

OCH, IMO an air rifle is for teaching children(2-5yrs old) how to shoot a real fire arm. If you want quiet, buy .22 caps and use your old bolt .22. I know they will kill deer out to 40 ft.:sssh: The lesser food sources should go easily.


For the rest of you at the end of the post that got all wrapped up in the carry issue and individual state laws, join the NRA and get the facts about the law as it applies to you in your location. 
I have carried a loaded gun readily available in my vehicle since 1986, sometime in 1989 I decided that a semi auto .357 magnum was my choice of weapon and have carried it loaded readily available wherever I go. Yes, even in the communist countries of NJ, CA, NY, IL, DC., NYC. I lived in NJ, NY, and NYC while carrying, no worries,no problems. 

The second amendment supersedes the piss ant state and local authorities. Review the case of Heller vs DC or the case of McDonald vs Chicago and ask your self why you have not taken control of your right to live life unmolested. 
For those that are sheeple, get busy dieing, the rest of us free Americans are getting busy living.


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## nj_m715

Plenty of people carry loaded guns here in NJ. They're either cops or criminals. Just cause someone got away with it and didn't get caught doesn't make it legal. 
Why don't I do it? Because I don't have several thoudand dollars laying around to fight the state over the second amandment when I'm caught.


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## nj_m715

Is this a pretty good beeman? It's a 500 series.
I found it online.


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## Vertigo

I have a Hatsan MOD135 in .117, decked out with a bushnell 3-9x 32mm scope.

It shoots pretty straight, I have been practicing over the summer with it, and I am now able to pretty consistently shoot 1 inch groups over a distance of 25metres. (27yards)

Since we have quite the bird infestation, I have been trying to hunt some of them, but for some reason I am not killing them quite as easily as I hoped for.

I actually would prefer a .22 caliber (5,5mm) for hunting purposes. Although the .117 is very accurate, it comes out of my Hatsan at 1300 fps, and they seem to just zip through the bird, instead of actually doing a lot of damage.

Oh well, maybe my shot placement is way off...
Anyone cares to enlighten me? 

V.


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## smitty32303

*Crosman Storm XT*

for just over 100 bucks, we picked up a Crosman Storm XT w/ a 3x9x32 center point scope. This is a 1200 fps .177 cal. Accuracy out to 50 yards consistent w/ scope. Beer cans to prove it. Wife has cleaned out the squirrel population this past winter and there is still several in the freezer. For a solid wood stock, good craftsmanship and reasonable price, this is a good deal for keepin kritters at bay, and putting some meat in the freezer on the cheep.


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## gds

nj_m715 said:


> Plenty of people carry loaded guns here in NJ. They're either cops or criminals. Just cause someone got away with it and didn't get caught doesn't make it legal.
> Why don't I do it? Because I don't have several thoudand dollars laying around to fight the state over the second amandment when I'm caught.


NJ, you are a goober.  And you assume you will be caught, WHY?? Cops and criminals are the only ones carrying? There is the problem.
Should we all succumb to the 20,000 plus laws regulating firearms in this country? Or should we accept the fact that this country was built on individuals carrying firearms?

You are correct, getting away with something that the local level has deemed illegal, does not make it legal.
So spend $35 a year supporting an organization that will be there for you if/when you choose to exercise your second amendment rights, and make it legal. 
Defense of your property, person, and fellow beings is a RIGHT. 
Hmmm, kinda sounds like what the supreme court said in Heller vs DC. 
But who really cares what some loco ( local) or state, or federal ruling says. 
IMO if a person has to rely on that to know who they are, they are not a person, they are a subject/pawn/oxygen thief.

The toys posted appear to accomplish the objective. 
smitty, let me know when you pop a deer with it at 50 yrds.


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## nj_m715

Why do you carry a hand gun? To feel cool because your hiding some heat in your pants or to protect yourself or someone else if the need should arise? So let's say I ignore the laws, carry a weapon and I am forced to use it one day, what happens next? How do YOU assume that I will not be caught. Are you going to flip the bill to fight city hall for me and take the case to the sumpreme court? 

Of course there's always the good old judged by 12 or carried by 6 thing, to consider, but prefer to stay legal. You can do as you see fit. 

I'm not bent out of shape over our laws. I don't agree with it, but if it bothered me that much I could always move to a state with different laws. 

You do what ever you feel you have the right to do, more power to you. This goober will just be sitting here stealing your oxygen.


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## gds

I carry a handgun because the ten commandments say I can, if I choose to. ( I refer to the BILL of RIGHTS as being on the same level as the ten commandments, that is where they originated from) 
Hmm, seems like the Supreme Court recognized that fact in there last two decisions concerning the Second Amendment.
Did any one bother to read the verdicts from the supreme court in Heller vs DC and McDonald vs chitcogo? 


"YOU assume that I will not be caught. Are you going to flip the bill to fight city hall for me and take the case to the supreme court?" 
So you are not willing to give up your superficial existence for what you really believe ?

That is the thought process that perpetuates the system that will not work. Know your unalienable rights . 

It is OK for me to carry a gun wherever I go, irregardless of the laws in that area. 

Get busy living or get busy dieing. 
No time for non doing can't C---- :wave:


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## nj_m715

If be superficial existence, you mean my freedom and my famiy's home, than NO. 'm not willing. I was hurt in a car crash and I'm been squeeking by for months.

If you're so fired up about the issue you can strap on your six shooters and walk around untill you are arrested so you can agrue your point in court. I just plain don't care. Ok? I live in NJ and we have restrictive laws here. It is was it is. Like I already said, I can always move if it bothered me that much. 

Hey. anyone want to talk about BB guns, I think that what this thread is about in the first place. I looked at the beman 500 and It wasn't bad. It shot 1.5" groups at about 45'. I liked it untill I held a crossman phanton in my hands. It made the 500 "feel" like a toy. The crossman has the weight and quailty build of a rifle. It didn't shoot much tighter groups, but it was much more powerful, had a very smooth triger and I suspect it would hold up many years longer than the beeman 500. 

I don't think beeman is bad, I realize I'm conparing apples to oranges by putting a 500 fps rifle against a 1000 fps rifle, but it's what they had at the shop.

I would suggest that anyone who is getting it for yourself put out the extra $100 or so dollars and get a 1000fps rifle, leave the 500's for the teenagers.


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## OldCootHillbilly

Lots a air rifles out there, been lookin at several. All will be in the 1000fps range er a bit higher. So many choices an price ranges, this is gonna be tough! Wan't something decent but don't wan't ta spend as much on a air rifle as I could on a regular rifle either.

Were not plannin on shootin a deer with it, rabbits, squirrels, birds an such. I think were all adults here an know were huntin small game with these.

So, when I finally make a call an pick one, I'll post it up.


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## gds

Yes Rev. Coot. Thar be lotsa air rivles out thar. They be gotten a new .50 air rivle, I reckon u cood be takin bear n elk wit it. 

NJ "If be superficial existence, you mean my freedom and my famiy's home, than NO. 'm not willing." 
I'm Sorry. My perspective and the people I associate with are willing to give up home and family for their believe in the Republic of the USA.


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## The_Blob

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Lots a air rifles out there, been lookin at several. All will be in the 1000fps range er a bit higher. So many choices an price ranges, this is gonna be tough! Wan't something decent but don't wan't ta spend as much on a air rifle as I could on a regular rifle either.
> 
> Were not plannin on shootin a deer with it, rabbits, squirrels, birds an such. I think were all adults here an know were huntin small game with these.
> 
> So, when I finally make a call an pick one, I'll post it up.


thanks for TRYING to get the thread back on topic, OldCoot... :congrat:


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## mosquitomountainman

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Lots a air rifles out there, been lookin at several. All will be in the 1000fps range er a bit higher. So many choices an price ranges, this is gonna be tough! Wan't something decent but don't wan't ta spend as much on a air rifle as I could on a regular rifle either.
> 
> Were not plannin on shootin a deer with it, rabbits, squirrels, birds an such. I think were all adults here an know were huntin small game with these.
> 
> So, when I finally make a call an pick one, I'll post it up.


Stay away from the chinese rifles. They're cheap junk. The European rifles are good but expensive. Crossman, Sheridan and Beeman are three I'm familiar with and they work great for small game and won't break the budget. Type of pellets make a big difference in my experience. Buy several kinds to try out (not just different brands, get different types of each brand) and see which are most accurate. 22 caliber, even though the velocity is lower, will kill better than 177. (But 177's get the job done too.) Don't get hung up on velocity. In a pellet rifle it isn't that important. Also, most spring piston pellet guns won't reach full accuracy potential until you've shot thousands of rounds through them.


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## nj_m715

Look, I'm simply done talking about your constitutional "right" to violate state laws. You have stated your position and I have stated mine. I am able to agree to disagree without the need to resort to name calling. I am done with the off topic discussion.

To get back on track, I looked at a few air rifles at a local shop. I like the "feel" of the crossman phantom. It doesn't feel like you are holding a toy. It has a tight smooth action. It was $140 and came with a fairly nice scope and plastic stock. My 6 yo is learning to fire the beeman 500 and I very happy with my crossman. Nice smooth trigger pull and very accurate. I'm sure there are other nice ones out there, but I'd recommend the phantom to anyone in the market. 

Luckily my wife doesn't object to the boy learning to shoot. She know I'm doing it in a safe manner and he's learning the rules to handle a weapon. She protested a little bit and I reminded her that it wasn't too long ago when a boy his age would be aspected to bring home a rabbit or two for dinner. 

I'm thinking of building a stand from 1/2" or 3/4" pvc pipe so we can hang a couple soda bottles on a string. We will be able to see the bottle dance from a hit without the need to walk down range to reset the targets. I want to hang different size targets from 2 liter bottles down to maybe a tennis ball, so we can both shoot at the same time. It's a nice little project we can build and use together.


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## gds

nj_m715 said:


> Look, I'm simply done talking about your constitutional "right" to violate state laws. You have stated your position and I have stated mine. I am able to agree to disagree without the need to resort to name calling. I am done with the off topic discussion."


 You have stated your views, and I served our country to protect your right to do that. Keep in mind I also have the same right to voice my views. 
Me calling someone "goober" is a term of endearment, it is not derogatory. 
Keep us posted on your backyard bottle dancing shooting range.

blob,I believe the off topic conversation started at post 15 and went through 25. I did not instigate the off topic, it was on going and I contributed. 
If I remember correctly a mod or 2 was involved in the off topic. 
I do apologize for pushing the off topic subject started by others. It seemed that some were interested.

Oldcoot, 
"I think were all adults here an know were huntin small game with these."

So your not really much of an old coot, the old coots I know will take or attempt to take what ever food source presents itself with what ever weapon they have at hand!
Did you research the new .50 cal air rifle?

Get busy doing or get busy dieing.

The answer is within.


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## The_Blob

I used to have a crossman single shot / single pump 22 air rifle when I was a kid (ok, ok a YOUNGER kid  ) I have no information about it except that it performed well against stationary rabbits at 50'~75'... I ended up letting a 'friend' borrow it & then the jerk moved away without telling me. 

it seems the high caliber/power air rifles are all precharged & good for 3~5 full-power shots (which should be enough  ) the .457 seems particularly impressive for stopping power


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## Daegnus

Just picked up a Ruger Air Hawk .177. Out of the box, first thing I noticed was how heavy it was, easily as heavy as my 10/22 if not more, not quite what I was expecting, but I'm pleased with it nonetheless. It comes with a stock scope, that most reviews say to replace, I'll give it its due and replace if necessary. Fired one round in the back yard (kids and their toys ya know ) to test the report. It's loud, almost as loud as a .22lr sub sonic round, basically... too loud for me to use in my backyard in the city to control rabbits. HOWEVER, its main purpose for me was a low/er report gun that can bring some small game to the table if need be. Since we're buried in 12" of snow right now I won't be able to get out to the range to really sight it in and get it broken in and test the accuracy for a while, I'll post more info later 

Oh yeah, only cost $99... :2thumb:


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## mosquitomountainman

Daegnus said:


> Just picked up a Ruger Air Hawk .177. Out of the box, first thing I noticed was how heavy it was, easily as heavy as my 10/22 if not more, not quite what I was expecting, but I'm pleased with it nonetheless. It comes with a stock scope, that most reviews say to replace, I'll give it its due and replace if necessary. Fired one round in the back yard (kids and their toys ya know ) to test the report. It's loud, almost as loud as a .22lr sub sonic round, basically... too loud for me to use in my backyard in the city to control rabbits. HOWEVER, its main purpose for me was a low/er report gun that can bring some small game to the table if need be. Since we're buried in 12" of snow right now I won't be able to get out to the range to really sight it in and get it broken in and test the accuracy for a while, I'll post more info later
> 
> Oh yeah, only cost $99... :2thumb:


I'd love to see more info on it. Ruger usually make a pretty good product. Just remember that most airguns do not shoot their best until thousands of pellets have been fired through them. Subsonc velocities are quieter. That's why my air rifle has barrels for both the 177 and 22 cal. The 22 is slower but heavier and quieter. Both do a superb job of taking small game.


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## Daegnus

Ya, it'll probably be a couple months before I really get a feel of how its going to perform. For now I'm going to break it down, check all the seals, deburr, clean up and lubricate it. I'll be sure to do a step by step report of the break in process and how it performs.

Umarex makes this gun, which is based in China, which I don't normally like, BUT nearly all springers are coming out of China these days, even the Remington, Winchester, etc... Even the Diana is made in China now, there are very few air rifles left that are American or European made.


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## nj_m715

I think there is a nitrogen cylinder gun that is quieter than the spring air guns, but I'm no expert. I forget the make and model of the rifle. I spoke to a guy about them at the store for a while. Both of our wives were giving us the evil eye ( you know how it is ).


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## AnimalcrackerHerder

nj_m715 said:


> To get back on track, I looked at a few air rifles at a local shop. I like the "feel" of the crossman phantom. It doesn't feel like you are holding a toy. It has a tight smooth action. It was $140 and came with a fairly nice scope and plastic stock. My 6 yo is learning to fire the beeman 500 and I very happy with my crossman. Nice smooth trigger pull and very accurate. I'm sure there are other nice ones out there, but I'd recommend the phantom to anyone in the market.
> 
> Luckily my wife doesn't object to the boy learning to shoot. She know I'm doing it in a safe manner and he's learning the rules to handle a weapon. She protested a little bit and I reminded her that it wasn't too long ago when a boy his age would be aspected to bring home a rabbit or two for dinner.
> 
> I'm thinking of building a stand from 1/2" or 3/4" pvc pipe so we can hang a couple soda bottles on a string. We will be able to see the bottle dance from a hit without the need to walk down range to reset the targets. I want to hang different size targets from 2 liter bottles down to maybe a tennis ball, so we can both shoot at the same time. It's a nice little project we can build and use together.


We have always had a few different air rifles laying around just because they are fun to shoot. Nothing real expensive or even very accurate. But over the years between us and the kids we must have went through 60 or 70 thousand BBs and I couldn't even guess how many pellets. My kids are all in their twenties now and are out doing their own thing but I wouldn't trade all those hours of shooting BB guns with them for anything! Even after they had their own hunting rifles and shotguns we would go out and shoot the crap out of the air guns.  The soda bottle on a string idea will be fun for you and your boy. Watch out for ricochets from your set up as the dancing bottles could cause some. Another option for you would be the Birchwood Casey Shoot-N-See Target. You can peel and stick them to a cardboard box or other surface and when they are hit in the black target face with a BB or Pellet the hole turns florescent green and is very visible from a distance. Good job teaching your son to shoot, and if you can get your wife involved in shooting with your son you might soon find yourself taking her out shopping for her own. :congrat:


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## vn6869

AnimalcrackerHerder said:


> . . . My kids are all in their twenties now and are out doing their own thing but I wouldn't trade all those hours of shooting BB guns with them for anything! . :congrat:


Bravo for you and your kids. :2thumb:
Sounds like wonderful times were had.

When they started making the cheap Chinese airguns (as happens with everyting they make) accuracy and everything dropped off.

Crossman's were once pretty good, I have one that fits my "needs" not a tack driver, but then neither am I. 

I also have taken a liking to sling shots.


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## bunkerbob

Francon said:


> looking for "round" rocks. No such critters exist, so rocks never fly straight, predictably. If I have to carry ball bearings, buckshot, or marbles, I might just as well have .22lr rds, cause they cost little if any more, and they have many, many times the effective range, even in just a handgun, if you can shoot. They also offer rapidfire, which is quite useful when you have to handle something larger than a rat, with such feeble loads. rocks also aren't heavy enough to do much when you do hit. They need a head hit on a rabbit, for instance, or he will just run off.


Well it seemed to have worked for David.


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## mosquitomountainman

You can make good slingshot ammo out of clay or get a round ball mold designed for muzzleloading rifles and make ammo out of lead. True, in my experience it takes a head shot to kill a rabbit but slinshots are very quiet and lightweight so packing one along with a rifle isn't a problem.

Subsonic 22 ammo is considerably quieter than high speed 22 ammo. I use subsonic 22 shorts for a lot of things.

There are some very real advantages to using a good pellet rifle. The ammo is cheap ($2.00 for 250 around here), the noise level is low (much lower than a 22 rifle), if offers a safe way to hone your shooting skills as they can be shot indoors (no smoke, low noise level, and backstops are easily made out of a cardboard box filled with stacked newsapers), most are very accurate and easily kill rabbits and squirrels, and you can carry a box of 200 in less space than a box of 100 22's. True, if you were expecting hostilities it wouldn't be my first choice but it will take care of rabbits in the garden and small game near the homestead (just pack a good handgun along for more serious, close to home encounters). In times of peace it would make a great small game getter for the kids to take to the field.

And there are no federal loopholes to jump through or taxes to pay. You can get a decent air rifle for under $150.00 dollars and 5,000 pellets for another $40.00. That's less than the tax for owning a silencer and you haven't caught the attention of the federales.


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## nj_m715

I grab marbles at the dollar store. $3 provides a day of fun knocking over cans. They don't pack the same punch as lead shot, but you can't beat the price. Same goes for the pellet gun. When I say mine are accurate, I mean within reason. Of course I'm not landing 100 yrd head shots, but I can hit a bottle cap at 40' repeatedly and I'm happy with that. Again, a couple dollars provides some family fun without leaving home. When ever our local sporting goods store has a sale a grab some extra pellets.

I don't have them to go on a walk-about surviving after the world ends. I have them to sharpen skills and have some fun today.


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## The_Blob

I've hit plenty of small game with slingshots & anything smaller than gopher/groundhog size will probably die without a headshot, unless only a 'graze' ie limb shot; I use junk ball bearings that I get for free & I can tell you that a head shot with one of those would probably kill a human being (not that I ever want to put THAT to the test  ), maybe even a deer :dunno: 

as for the airguns... a rifle firing ten .50 cal slugs travelling at 670 fps (190 foot pounds?)


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## lexsurivor

Just bought a Remington Airmaster 77. I got some pellets that came with 100 wadcutters, 100 pointed, and 100 hollow points. So far I like it.


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## nj_m715

Well, it's simple. My boy and I can't fire a .22 in my basement or backyard. An air rifle gives us plenty of good cheap fun.


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## paladin562

I have a Gamo with a suppressor built in it is suppose to make half the noise of the same without. Not a bad gun but still a short range proposition.


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## The_Blob

Possibly the most talented slingshot marksman of all time. [VIDEO]

THE fella with the slingshot... :lolsmash:

note that the jug full of rocks are just that... regular old non-aerodynamic rocks


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## BadgeBunny

The_Blob said:


> I've hit plenty of small game with slingshots & anything smaller than gopher/groundhog size will probably die without a headshot, unless only a 'graze' ie limb shot; I use junk ball bearings that I get for free & I can tell you that a head shot with one of those would probably kill a human being (not that I ever want to put THAT to the test  ), maybe even a deer :dunno:
> 
> as for the airguns... a rifle firing ten .50 cal slugs travelling at 670 fps (190 foot pounds?)





The_Blob said:


> Possibly the most talented slingshot marksman of all time. [VIDEO]
> 
> THE fella with the slingshot... :lolsmash:
> 
> note that the jug full of rocks are just that... regular old non-aerodynamic rocks


My little brother was ******* WICKED with a slingshot ... and I had the welps to prove it! 

I wonder if I could get the hang of it and take out a dove?? Hmmmm ... I mean they are literally 10-12 feet away when I am sitting on the patio ... :woohoo:


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## nkjones1

I've had the same pellet rifle for about 10 years now. It's a winchester 1000x, single shot, break barrel, rated at 1000fps, can put a 2 in. group with it at approx 60 yds, and have taken several rabbits, squirrels, and medium-sized birds with it.


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## LegitCitizen

I have BB/pellet gun, mostly for varmint control (i.e. scaring stray dogs away from the trash), although it would easily take small game - pigeons certainly, maybe a rabbit. It wasn't expensive and it's not bad on accuracy (certainly not up to par with the high end air rifles). But I think it will get the job done.

I have used the hanging soda bottle target myself. What I have found (well, with plastic 2-liter bottles mostly and the odd plastic water bottle) is that BB's have the power to punch through one wall but not the other. So, a BB enters and goes whizzing around the inside of the bottle. After I shoot for awhile, I go out and pour the BB's back into the package and use them again. Silly, I know... but fun. Pellets punch right through and keep going. 

My brother in law had a similar rifle to mine when he was much younger. He took lots of birds with it - heaven knows how many sparrows got cooked over his campfires. 

As far as sound goes, my pellet rifle is as quiet as anything. The sound from a group of pigeons would drown me out. If there was much background noise at all, it wouldn't be heard.


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## philjam

nj_m715 said:


> I was in a competition when I was a boyscout. They gave us large HEAVY air rifles with a large lever on the side. Pulling the lever charged the gun and opened the breach. You had to place one shot at a time in the chamber. After the pellet was loaded you pushed back the handle and took your shoot. I don't know the make, but I would consider getting one. They were fast and very accurate, but they didn't seem cheap at all. They felt like a real gun compaired to the crossman toys we grew up with.


I use the air rifle you describe in my work. It is a RWS Dianna made in Germany. It is heavy. It cost around $400 new. It is .17 cal and mv is ~1200fps. I can hit a sparrow at 60 ft. I have a scope on it. Scopes for air rifles of this power need to be designated for air rifles. I have killed squirrel, rabbit, raccoon, skunk and fox cleanly within thirty yards. The rifle also can be had in 22 cal.


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