# Who Can You Trust?



## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Some of you know my story: so far no luck in finding preppers living in a grid- capable rural setting with the potential to survive a worst case scenario as a more or less self-sufficient group. Because I haven't found one, I've had to prepare my small town residential home, especially my so-called "safe room" in my cellar. Because the house is nowhere near impenetrable and when the grid goes down, all utilities cease to function including a water supply, it's not a long term(over 6 months) solution for my wife and I. However, I can trust my wife not to kill me. Under the subject, "be careful what you wish for", I've been thinking lately that MAYBE in a worst case scenario, living with strangers because of their better location or thinking there is strength in numbers and skill diversity, or even with other relatives, if survival becomes very difficult, can we trust others not to kill us for our share of the dwindling supplies? In a worst case scenario breakdown of law and order, we could be killed with impunity because so many will die from various causes that they would not be investigated thoroughly, if at all. The debate in my mind right now is whether I should continue to look for others in a better location for self-sufficient survival and take the chance we won't be killed by our roomates or go it alone, finding that remote off grid capable housing for the wife and I to struggle on our own but at least without the fear that we would be shot in our sleep...


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

db2469 said:


> Some of you know my story: so far no luck in finding preppers living in a grid- capable rural setting with the potential to survive a worst case scenario as a more or less self-sufficient group. Because I haven't found one, I've had to prepare my small town residential home, especially my so-called "safe room" in my cellar. Because the house is nowhere near impenetrable and when the grid goes down, all utilities cease to function including a water supply, it's not a long term(over 6 months) solution for my wife and I. However, I can trust my wife not to kill me. Under the subject, "be careful what you wish for", I've been thinking lately that MAYBE in a worst case scenario, living with strangers because of their better location or thinking there is strength in numbers and skill diversity, or even with other relatives, if survival becomes very difficult, can we trust others not to kill us for our share of the dwindling supplies? In a worst case scenario breakdown of law and order, we could be killed with impunity because so many will die from various causes that they would not be investigated thoroughly, if at all. The debate in my mind right now is whether I should continue to look for others in a better location for self-sufficient survival and take the chance we won't be killed by our roomates or go it alone, finding that remote off grid capable housing for the wife and I to struggle on our own but at least without the fear that we would be shot in our sleep...


I have struggled with this same problem all my life. Whom can I trust? I know 100's of people and I was always having difficulty in knowing you were my real friends that I could trust with my life and who were just being friendly.

Here's the test, would you give this person all your PIN numbers to all your bank accounts and a key to your house and not worry a bit and then leave the country for a year? Well, out of 100's of people, I came up with 5, my wife, and four friends I've known for 30-40 years that's it. My mother and sisters did not even make the cut.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

DB that is a question only you will have to answer in the end. 

Your gut feeling is what will get you though most things, least it has for me. I tend to go with it first. Yep, been wrong some but I'd say my gut is 70-80%right.

When people that you have not known for a long time are to be trusted with your life/lives, I tend to lean a different way at that point.

I'm lucky to live in a community that is very self-reliant and through a co-op effort should be able to get it done, either long or short term.

Even people we know, in a severe shtf situation, will change into something we won't recognize. I just feel certain that is something that will happen.

JMWAG

Jimmy


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Jimmy24 said:


> DB that is a question only you will have to answer in the end.
> 
> Your gut feeling is what will get you though most things, least it has for me. I tend to go with it first. Yep, been wrong some but I'd say my gut is 70-80%right.
> 
> ...


yes, that's the scary realism of it; that desperate, starving people will do practically anything!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'd prefer not to have to trust other people in a post-collapse world. Especially people I haven't known for years and years.

Even if you could find people you could trust, is it worth the risk in letting other people know you have supplies? If it was me I wouldn't be looking to join up with other preppers.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I see your in Pennsylvaia..

My recommendation is to befriened the AMISH.
Dont talk about prepping.. just get to know them... be nice... do some business.. buy their fruits and potatoes..

They have all the resources the hordes will want to steal, but they have NO WEAPONS of any kind and are not trained in thier use as they are extremly pacifist..

Nowadays they all know english too, not just german.

Once the hordes from Pittsburg or Philly rape and murder the first couple 100 amish, I would imagine the Amish would be willing to be less peaceful and be grateful to anyone who gives them guns and ammo and teaches them their use.

Actually I decided if SHTF and if I am too old by then and family is a couple states away (which may mean unreachable depending on the situation) I may just give all my guns and ammo to the amish and train them in thier use.

if they dont accept me afterwards which is likely (I am an atheist) I will just leave and hit the road to my death.

But I would still be happy about what I did ,as this may save a lot of good peoples lives.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> I see your in Pennsylvaia..
> 
> My recommendation is to befriened the AMISH.
> Dont talk about prepping.. just get to know them... be nice... do some business.. buy their fruits and potatoes..
> ...


That would make a good movie...in a post collapse world where the Amish, with their little or no reliance on the grid for utilities, are thriving but the bad guys come and conflict ensues....of course I'd want the Amish to ultimately prevail, but I'm sure it wouldn't be easy!


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> I see your in Pennsylvaia..
> 
> My recommendation is to befriened the AMISH.
> Dont talk about prepping.. just get to know them... be nice... do some business.. buy their fruits and potatoes..
> ...


I've interacted with the Amish a handful of times and they often ride their buggys through this area as well as sell their produce and baked goods here...I have a lot of respect for their way of life..


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Tough question. I always try to think the best of folks. Bites me in the butt more often than not. Sad. All I can say is backup plans within backup plans. If you have the resources for some "hunting land" with a spring and a small camper and sandbags +camo netting id go for it. Not the best but with low profile, seeds and practice with the 100 sq ft garden as a starting point you'd be well on your way. Whatever you do have a good bob and practice the plan.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

The old saying "trust no one" will be the only rule after SHTF. If there is no law enforcement, life will be a very cheap commodity. When things get really bad and someone invites you over for dinner make sure you are not on the menu!


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Trust no one seems a little harsh. Mayne Im naive but I like to think most folks will be good folks just tryin to make it through. Hope you arent proved right hiwall. Trust me I wont die proving you so but still.....like it was in the army "trust but verify".


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## emilnon (May 8, 2012)

db2469 said:


> That would make a good movie...in a post collapse world where the Amish, with their little or no reliance on the grid for utilities, are thriving but the bad guys come and conflict ensues....of course I'd want the Amish to ultimately prevail, but I'm sure it wouldn't be easy!


I wanna watch that movie! Now go and write the script, collaborate with BlueZ and cast Matthew MacFadyen in the lead role. Now THAT I would pay to see 

Edit: also, the hero has to fall in love with a lovely Amish woman. Which, of course creates tension between the hero and his allies. Damn this is getting good!


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## prep4life (Jul 16, 2010)

We are independent folks. I don't like a lot of people. In fact, I'd say there are only about a handful I would tolerate for more than a 2 hour visit. 
But in SHTF situation we will need more people to help defend this place, garden, build, hunt, etc. I have only recently come to this conclusion. We just won't be able to do it all by ourselves. 
As far as trust - that is something earned & cultivated in experience.
We are looking for group members for when TSHTF.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Yeah I"ve been bitten by trust a few times too and I was never a very trusting person in the first place. In the bad times ahead it will be neccessary to trust someone somtime though if not then really whats the point of continuing things? But if I was to "enter" a group or have someone enter my group I"ll be sleeping with one eye open and the core few who I really really trust will not all be asleep at the same time. We will smile be freindly but have a plan to kill everything within sight should it becomne neccessary. And first and foremost I WILL BE trustworthy thats a real good way to get the mutual respect and trust thing going in the first place. Trust and respect are neither one ever truly given they have to be earned.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

Everyone makes valid points on a very serious topic. I have faith in myself and in my own ability to size a person up fairly quickly. I also know I have the capability to be a cold S.O.B. and get rid of anybody I was wrong about.
But for now we can only talk about what we would do, for when the SHTF and the new reality of life is thrust upon you, it will be in that moment that we will know the truth of our words.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

I can totally understand the idea of trust issues. I have an ex-friend I'd known all my life (over 40 years) who I thought trustworthy. Loved him like a brother. I always told him, if you need help in any way, just ask and I would assist to the best of my ability. Just last year, I observed him stealing money from my wallet and caught him stealing some of my pain medication. When I confronted him, he first lied, then made multiple excuses and finally admitted he was wrong. He had found himself in a monetary bind and didn't want to explain the circumstances to me. I informed him that I would not have asked the circumstances if he would have told me his reservations, but unwound have given, not loaned him the money. Although it broke my heart, I unfriended him in all ways. Even today, he still tries to make amends, but I will have nothing to do with a liar and thief.

I, myself, when I friend someone, will go to the ends of the earth to earn their trust and respect. I will never steal from a friend. No matter the circumstances, I will explain my situation and work from there. It is a combination of the values in which my family raised me as well ad my time in the US Army as a Sergeant. I, personally, would rather give my life than to see a child hurt in any way. As for pedophiles, if I catch them, they are dead. No questions asked! If it is my friend's wife, I would rather eat glass and $hit hornets than cross any line with her. Just my way.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

emilnon said:


> I wanna watch that movie! Now go and write the script, collaborate with BlueZ and cast Matthew MacFadyen in the lead role. Now THAT I would pay to see
> 
> Edit: also, the hero has to fall in love with a lovely Amish woman. Which, of course creates tension between the hero and his allies. Damn this is getting good!


Yeah and the girl is torn and decides to leave with him, while he loves her so much hes torn about staying, but they get thrown out because she pregnant.
So the Amish give them supplys, everybody cries, and the two face the TEOTWAWKI. 
Somebody pick up the next scene so we can get this to print and on screen or did I just jack a thread.

Back on point. Tough question about who to trust, but Im with Hiwall on this one. The stakes are too high to be wrong, unless you have a good relationship with Blood relatives.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I have a rather large family and thankfully a lot of them are very trustworthy. Most are prepping in one way or another so I would have lots of option of both people and prep locations. Our family has always been on the poorer side but we all help as much as possible and stick together. Much better than making survivor groups on the fly when the crap is a spreadin'!! If anyone wants to join our family / group you better be either a hot hard workin chick or willing to marry a semi-crazy woman. But the food is always good around here!


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> I see your in Pennsylvaia..
> 
> My recommendation is to befriened the AMISH.
> Dont talk about prepping.. just get to know them... be nice... do some business.. buy their fruits and potatoes..
> ...


Sorry, but Amish DO have rifles and shotguns. Amish hunt. Amish will defend their women and children. The Amish are a lot more informed than people realize.

Secondly, Amish will NOT accept outsiders with the possible exception of those that are from another Amish church or Mennonites. Buying their veggies will not buy their loyalty.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

db2469 said:


> That would make a good movie...in a post collapse world where the Amish, with their little or no reliance on the grid for utilities, are thriving but the bad guys come and conflict ensues....of course I'd want the Amish to ultimately prevail, but I'm sure it wouldn't be easy!


Y'all watch too much tv and movies. The Amish are nothing like you all think.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

What! The movie "Sex Drive" doesnt tell me everything I need to know about the Amish? I thought it was all about Rumspringer and misunderstood sarcasm.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Sorry, but Amish DO have rifles and shotguns. Amish hunt. Amish will defend their women and children. The Amish are a lot more informed than people realize.
> 
> Secondly, Amish will NOT accept outsiders with the possible exception of those that are from another Amish church or Mennonites. Buying their veggies will not buy their loyalty.


From amishreligousfreedom.org:

_I understand the Amish belief in nonresistance and pacifism. Does this principle extend to personal situations where you are confronted with imminent evil -- say a known murderer confronting you and your family in your home? Can you use force to preserve your life in this situation? To what extent? What is the Biblical basis for your position?

*"Both Amish and Mennonites are committed to a lifestyle of peace and non- violence. Yes, this pervades every aspect of life. However, no one can predict with certainty how anyone would really react to an absolutely unprecedented crisis such as described above. Emotions as well as thoughts are involved and the situation is personalized. Having said this, we would hope that as people who have practiced a lifestyle of peace, we would not resort to force and violence in a crisis situation such as the one described.
We must briefly make several points:

There is no assurance that use of force would save my life or the life of my family if confronted by an attacker. 
We could recall many accounts of unhoped for deliverances, whether by mediation, nature, or divine Providence, when Christians refused to use force when confronted by an attacker. 
If the result is death at the hands of the attacker, so be it; death is not threatening to us as Christians. Hopefully the attacker will have at least had a glimpse of the love of Christ in our nonviolent response. 
The Christian does not choose a nonviolent approach to conflict because of assurance it will always work; rather the Christian chooses this approach because of his / her commitment to Jesus Christ as Lord. 
The analogy to war in the situation described above tends to break down when we think of the vast preparations for war -- accumulation of weapons, training of the military, etc. War is planned and seldom is aggression so clearly defined with the defense staying on its home turf*.

Some of the Biblical references for peace and non-resistance are: Matthew 5:38-48; John 18:36; Romans 12:18-21; and I Corinthians 6:18. "
_

Also I was not suggesting "buying their loyalty" but merely to become familiar so you have a chance to gift them guns and ammo in SHTF which they likely dont have...

PS: Maybe it's different in Texas, where everyone must have guns


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

BlueZ, I know all about Amish and Mennonite doctrine. I am ex-Amish. The website you are quoting is not Amish. It is run by a Lutheran minister for the "benefit" of the Amish. 

I really don't care if you believe me or not, but Amish do have guns. Amish do go hunting. There might be a church somewhere that doesn't, but my relatives in Shipshewana and my relatives in Southern Maryland and in PA all hunt.

As for Amish in Texas, as far as I know there are no Old Order Amish groups. There are a few Beachy Amish and some conservative Mennonites. One of the reasons I moved here to make a fresh start.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

kejmack...maybe BlueZ was understanding that the Amish might not shoot PEOPLE even when threatened, given their beliefs...


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm in Kentucky; my dh bought an HMR17 from Joseph...he's Amish.
My dh did business with him at his lumber mill.
They are armed.

Joseph told dh that they would NEVER let their children, wives, and loved ones come to harm; they will protect them.
Peace...jayjay


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I certainly believe you.

Perhaps this is a misconception I held, as I was always taught the amish are extreme pacifists which is why they were generally always concientious objectors in US wars. 

So the Amish are open to shooting at people now?
Perhaps things have changed and it hasnt filtered out to us "Englische" yet. 

PS: Can you guys understand standard german or is it too different from the Alemannic/Suebic dialect you are used to?


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

db2469 said:


> kejmack...maybe BlueZ was understanding that the Amish might not shoot PEOPLE even when threatened, given their beliefs...


Never mind!...lol


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Db, we are very fortunate, family lives nearby and just a few good friends. We've stocked enough firearms and ammo for everyone to have one weapon including children. Ok I said it. Do I have enough preps, no...but those that will come here will be trusted and will help.

I think you should really consider a possible long bug out, hiking, to a destination with people you know. (don't answer but) is there anyone, I mean anyone in family or good friends, even across states that would be willing to join you or you join them in their location? They will have to have most firearms and they will have to keep the stores. 

I wouldn't want to bank on strangers. Your heart may be right, but theirs may not. Of course if you could find preppers in the area to start forming relationships with, I would but you need a semi plan now! Living in the city is scary. Hope more folks can help you. Doubt that I did, I just wish you could find some peace in some sort of plan immediately.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Startingout-Blair said:


> I can totally understand the idea of trust issues. I have an ex-friend I'd known all my life


Under WA state law I may have shot this guy. Nothing is a greater violation than betrayal by a brother.

In A SHTF scenario I see trust as dependance upon others for my survival. To be a trust worthy partner they would have to be willing to take a bullet for you. That is an unreasonable expectation. As it is completely unnatural and contrary to human nature to put others survival above your own. Very few things over ride that, the well being of a child, duty, honor, and love. In today's world I would not trust my life to another's sense of duty or honor as most can not even give you the definition of the word.

By being self sustaining self reliant I know what is done what needs to be done and do not have to second guess what others motives are. Safe and secure in the knowledge that all those involved are trustworthy


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> PS: Can you guys understand standard german or is it too different from the Alemannic/Suebic dialect you are used to?


Amish speak German at church, Plattdietsch (PA Dutch) at home, and English at school. Kenn du Dietsche schwetze?


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## hillobeans (May 17, 2012)

DB, I totally feel ya. I'm stuck here in the city- I've got a couple of friends, but none are really set up to be any sort of help in a shtf situation. I'm really not sure what I'll do if all hell breaks loose. I could link up with the rest of my family, but Texas is a heck of a long way from Portland. We are pretty much on our own out here.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

hillobeans said:


> DB, I totally feel ya. I'm stuck here in the city- I've got a couple of friends, but none are really set up to be any sort of help in a shtf situation. I'm really not sure what I'll do if all hell breaks loose. I could link up with the rest of my family, but Texas is a heck of a long way from Portland. We are pretty much on our own out here.


What ya got to do is prep for them to come to you. I know I know....but if shtf, you are better off with people you trust. It may take a while, of course.

Does your wife prep with you? Sorry if you have mentioned but I didn't catch that info.

Beans, rice, water. Bulk, lots. Then let these folks know you've got beans and rice and water, bring their guns, you store extra guns (yes, I know $$$ but do that slowly or ammo for the guns they own)

This is my suggestion. I've stored lots of beans and rice and need more. (definitely another trip to Sams soon) but I can feed them if they can get here.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

DJgang said:


> What ya got to do is prep for them to come to you. I know I know....but if shtf, you are better off with people you trust. It may take a while, of course.
> 
> Beans, rice, water. Bulk, lots. Then let these folks know you've got beans and rice and water, bring their guns, you store extra guns (yes, I know $$$ but do that slowly or ammo for the guns they own)
> 
> This is my suggestion. I've stored lots of beans and rice and need more. (definitely another trip to Sams soon) but I can feed them if they can get here.


I do the same thing. I prep as if my relatives will be coming. I know at least 1 of my sisters plans to try. I'm sure that if they don't make it, the food will not go to waste.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I trust very few, and all of those I trust I have known for most of my life. 

Having done a lot of work for local Amish, I am acquainted with their views on life to some degree, but no authority. I do have great respect for most of them, and their values. I expect that our local Amish communities will fare very well in most any situation. I would trust most of them a lot, but that is based on personal knowledge and long friendships. 

There is great value for my wife and I having lived in or near our present area for most of our lives. We know people, know most of their immediate families, and probably know most of their ancestors. We know who they are and how they got to be who they are. That gives you a pretty reliable basis for the degree of trust you are willing to award a person. There are superficial friendships, and then there are lifelong friendships where everyone knows precisely what to expect from each other. 

I believe future society will resemble present society insofar as various kinds of relationships (acquaintance, business associate, friend, relative, etc.) AND, various degrees of trust for each relationship. At least mine will be that way.


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

"Trust no one Agent Mulder", that's my mantra . The alcoholics say "trust God , love people", I don't know how appropriate that would be when TSHTF . 

As far as the Amish go , living in Southern Lancaster County , Pa. I've seen way too much of them to think of them as allies . Every Amish I know have guns , they can shoot before they can walk . I know I've stood beside them at the sportsman's club . Not to be be Mr. Unpopular , but I have a very different view of them . I don't like buggies creating dangerous driving situations , I don't like violating child labor laws in the name of religion . I don't like the covert cover ups of abuse . I don't like puppy mills . I don't like tailoring the rules to make them convenient . I don't like shoveling poop from my driveway unless it came from my dog . I respect their ability to thrive the way they do but it's not like you might think . Many have electric , in the barns only of course, and cell phones too .


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Deep thoughts.
I have to admit I had the same ideas about the Amish!

Almost all of my close friends I have known most of my life (the most recent of the close friends I met in college 20 years ago, the rest from before that), so I would absolutely trust them. Now with my life is a different story. Only two of them have any experience with weapons, and limited at that. Me and my one friend are the only ones believing anything may be wrong with the world, and the only ones that may be doing anything about it. Were all in the burbs, with maybe only one place to go if it gets hairy, and Im not even sure about that. My previous BOL is gone, so we would really have one possible option other than bugging in. My current location is completely undefendable should it come to that. I guess I would just have to DEAL WITH IT. (heh, get it M?)
Back to the trust issue- you would just have to make some tough decisions when it comes down to it. Hope youre good at reading people, and make the best of it. At least where I am, going it alone isnt an option.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> Trust no one seems a little harsh. Mayne Im naive but I like to think most folks will be good folks just tryin to make it through. Hope you arent proved right hiwall. Trust me I wont die proving you so but still.....like it was in the army "trust but verify".


Actually that's a Biblical principle, "Trust no man." The reality is that it pays to do your homework on who you should trust and even then it may be trust at an arms length away. We're fortunate to have neighbors that are trustworthy but not far down the road there are some that you don't dare turn your back on.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Y'all watch too much tv and movies. The Amish are nothing like you all think.


I agree. Depending on how you feel about animal wellfare the Amish are known for running puppy mills. Or at least large scale mass dog breeding farms. No fight or argument intended by this comment. (Please don't hit me!)

My uncle lives with a former Amish woman. She left in her 30s and has not returned. She only ever told anyone that things were far from being as they appeared in her community and that is why she left.


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## hillobeans (May 17, 2012)

DJgang said:


> What ya got to do is prep for them to come to you. I know I know....but if shtf, you are better off with people you trust. It may take a while, of course.
> 
> Does your wife prep with you? Sorry if you have mentioned but I didn't catch that info.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't notice your post until now.

No, my wife doesn't prep with me. She puts up with it with humor (mostly)- that's about as positive as I can spin it. I have no friends that prep- these days my world has pretty much closed down to my immediate family, and that's it. I go to work, I come home and hang out with the kids, then back to work....and that's pretty much my life right now. I haven't really maintained any close friendships since my oldest son was born, sadly, so even if I was prepping for more than my family, I wouldn't have anyone to share it with. I would love for my brother and sister and their families to join us, but they live in Texas (I'm in Portland) so that might be tough.

I could be screwed here in the city without a MAG.....


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## cgsurvivalman (Sep 20, 2012)

I prep a good bit and my gf pretends that she cares about what I am doing. My kids live with their mom 3 states from me. I have always planned on trying to make to the kids. Once I find them which I know will be almost impossible but, it is something I will have to do. I would really like to make it to my fathers house after that. I will have to do my best to keep my eye out and get as big of a head start as I can before a SHTF. That is an 9 hr drive with no traffic to my kids home and another 9 hrs to my fathers home. So, I am guessing it would take me weeks if not months after SHTF. I do have a BOV and supplies to make it but, as far as trusting anyone....NO WAY...not until I get my kids and make it to my fathers.
I guess the odds are against me but, I will have to try.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

BlueZ said:


> I see your in Pennsylvaia..
> 
> My recommendation is to befriened the AMISH.
> Dont talk about prepping.. just get to know them... be nice... do some business.. buy their fruits and potatoes..
> ...


I beg to differ the Amish in Ohio have lots of guns, I see them in the sporting goods stores having some one buy them for them all the time. They especially like Cabelas in Wheeling, WV and Fin Feather & Fur in Ashland, Oh.

They are proficient hunters and get their fair share of the deer. Getting to know them and be friend a family or 2 is a very good idea.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

IMHO the only one you can trust 100% is yourelf. Otherwise no matter what you'll admit there is always some small amount of doubt in the back of your mind. With very few exceptions. When I was active duty I trusted my life on an everyday basis pretty much to the members of my "group" I knew they had my back and I theirs. I trusted them 100% under the circumstances. BUT in a shtf/teotwawki scenerio..... supplies are short, they have hungry kids...... then it becomes a whole different ball game.


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## oif_ghost_tod (Sep 25, 2012)

oldsoldier said:


> IMHO the only one you can trust 100% is yourelf. Otherwise no matter what you'll admit there is always some small amount of doubt in the back of your mind. With very few exceptions. When I was active duty I trusted my life on an everyday basis pretty much to the members of my "group" I knew they had my back and I theirs. I trusted them 100% under the circumstances. BUT in a shtf/teotwawki scenerio..... supplies are short, they have hungry kids...... then it becomes a whole different ball game.


Apparently they cut us from the same cloth. I trusted my unit, but finding anyone in civilian life who I trust as much is rare. I don't even trust half the cats down at the VA, or in the local VFW or Legion cuz I don't want a whole squad (with families in tow) at my doorstep post-SHTF.

Only show your preps to people you expect to share them with. If they know you have it, they are going to try to get some, sad but true.

Even if you chat daily with people in your neighborhood, or anyone else, always talk in generalities...don't go bragging that you finally put up 500lbs of wheat in your basement, people file that away in the back of their brains, then after food runs out they are gonna come knocking.

Just be proud internally. Keep it to yourself.


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## cgsurvivalman (Sep 20, 2012)

*very true*



oif_ghost_tod said:


> Apparently they cut us from the same cloth. I trusted my unit, but finding anyone in civilian life who I trust as much is rare. I don't even trust half the cats down at the VA, or in the local VFW or Legion cuz I don't want a whole squad (with families in tow) at my doorstep post-SHTF.
> 
> Only show your preps to people you expect to share them with. If they know you have it, they are going to try to get some, sad but true.
> 
> ...


I thought I was the only person that was like this. I have never found the same trust in the civilian world. I miss that trust and would still be in the service if I could pass the physcials.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

I do have a few friends that are more like family and I do trust then with my life. They, of course, trust me as well. I trust then more than some of my Army buddies.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Amen*



oldsoldier said:


> IMHO the only one you can trust 100% is yourelf. Otherwise no matter what you'll admit there is always some small amount of doubt in the back of your mind. With very few exceptions. When I was active duty I trusted my life on an everyday basis pretty much to the members of my "group" I knew they had my back and I theirs. I trusted them 100% under the circumstances. BUT in a shtf/teotwawki scenerio..... supplies are short, they have hungry kids...... then it becomes a whole different ball game.


The only one you can trust is your self.

Me and Mama take turns staying up watching each other.

I don't trust her and she don't trust me ! inkfight:


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Was watching a History Channel DVD about the Mafia. One of the bosses had a sign in his office that said "*Three Can Keep A Secret If Two Are Dead*" I think that pretty much covers all that there needs to be said about trust for the most part. For guys have known the brotherhood of combat, rare if ever will you find that kind of bond States side. I cherish the few Brothers I have above all else after the wife. They are who remind me that there is still hope for humanity.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

It's very important in giving info on survival out, don't "Cast your pearls before the swine.", that's more than just a nice saying. When and if I give suggestions for storage of food, water, ammo, precious metals or any survival storage idea it's as though it's something you should do but I really can't afford myself. Truth is I'm an older guy with a low fixed income and really can't do much of anything, fact is with the price of fuel we only get into town two to four times a month. But because over the years seeing people in floods, tornadoes, hurricanes and other disasters crying out for food and water it only make sense to tell people living in those areas to be better prepared and not get caught with their "pants down" as that just seems pretty dang stupid to me. Sadly most people are not at all prepped for a day or two of no electricity, and no water, well that's something else. In all honesty, most of us here would do well just taking care of the people that live under our roofs, if the SHTF the ideals of trust probably will no longer stand. If anyone is allowed to come to your home they better damn well be an asset and not a drag otherwise they could become your worst enemy.


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## cgsurvivalman (Sep 20, 2012)

I don't know about worst enemy Viking but, they would make good fertilizer in a SHTF. At that point there would be no room for anyone that could not be an asset of pull their own weight. I know that sounds heartless but, that is how it will have to be to survive. 
Some of these people that you hear saying that they do not need guns to survive in a SHTF for protection are crazy. I saw one couple on one of those tv shows that said they would invite people in and help them and show them how they could benifit the community.
That is BS. People like that will be the first to be taken advantage of by people with guns. It will be a dog eat dog world at that point.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

oif_ghost_tod said:


> Apparently they cut us from the same cloth. I trusted my unit, but finding anyone in civilian life who I trust as much is rare. I don't even trust half the cats down at the VA, or in the local VFW or Legion cuz I don't want a whole squad (with families in tow) at my doorstep post-SHTF.
> 
> Only show your preps to people you expect to share them with. If they know you have it, they are going to try to get some, sad but true.
> 
> ...


 Agreed. To me when you serve in a "group" like I did. Saw combat with them, bled with them and even lost a couple of them it develops a bond almost closer than blood "family" You know you can trust them cause you have to and they you. That bond isn't the same with peace time fellow military, or your buddies at the VFW especially so with friends, neighbors, even most family members. About the only ones I trust is my wife cause I have to and she is coming around to prepping and my sister and her husband because they are preppers as well, they probibily have more preps than we do mainly cause they have a huge basement to store them. Plus we have stock piled preps together at our BOL.

I gave up a couple of years ago trying to talk to friends and neighbors about what could happen.


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## oif_ghost_tod (Sep 25, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Was watching a History Channel DVD about the Mafia. One of the bosses had a sign in his office that said "Three Can Keep A Secret If Two Are Dead" I think that pretty much covers all that there needs to be said about trust for the most part. For guys have known the brotherhood of combat, rare if ever will you find that kind of bond States side. I cherish the few Brothers I have above all else after the wife. They are who remind me that there is still hope for humanity.


I have this as a shirt.









Nothing could be more true. 
OPSEC!


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## Frost (Nov 8, 2012)

Look. I never have had a lot of trust for my fellow humans. Through out history we have done the more horrid things to one another over some of the dumbest reasons. My god is better than your god. I want your wife. bla bla bla bla....

Here is the truth As I foresee. 
You have 6 months of supply's.
the guy across the street has 4 months.
You know each other, you play golf!
you decide to share for your mutual benefit.
how neighborly of you.

until... you and he realize that combined you don't have enough to make it, so you need to stop sharing and "take care of your own". 
When you understand he has what you need. and you have what he needs. the neighborly conduct is out the window. one family will survive another month. 
Who's are you going to pick?

I am not advocating distrust or deviousness. I just say what i see in peoples hearts. When it comes down to basic survival. It IS in everyone of us to survive at any cost. 
if not.... why are you prepping? 

my point to you sir. find some way to get out of the city. stash a supply somewhere!


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## Paltik (Nov 20, 2012)

Those of you who won't trust anybody and will go it alone, consider:


Who's going to watch out while you sleep?
When you have a fever and are so weak you can't get up, who will bring you water to drink?
When you're out hunting, who'll be guarding your camp?
What kind of life will you have with nobody to laugh with, talk with, play games with?
How will you stitch that wound on the back of your head?

I'm telling you, humans are social by nature--we need other people. And I believe history makes the case that we live happier and longer when in society. In a group of about 25 people, some will be able to specialize, and there will be many eyes to watch, many hands to work, etc. Yes, there will be many mouths to feed, but some can hunt, some can plant, some can forage, etc.

I intend to find people I will trust. I suppose I'll also discover that that trust has been misplaced a time or two. But that's my life now--I live surrounded by people I don't trust, and have at times trusted foolishly, but by and large those I can't trust are reined in by forces in society that keep order. If it's you and me, you might shoot me and take what's mine; but if it's you and me and 20 other people, you'd have to consider what they'll do to you if you do.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

My problem is I can't find 24 people to trust NOW when things are relatively good. How you gonna find em when things are dog eat dog? No where near 25 I have .................enough....................I hope.


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## hilljen (Nov 28, 2012)

I think one of the best things you can do to make sure your post SHTF buddies don't decide to get rid of you is to learn skills that make you valuable to have around. Think about what they really need or love and ways you can provide those things. Learn about herbal medicine and how to relieve pain and suffering. Become the best hunter or gardener in your group. Make it very costly to get rid of you or to upset you by getting rid of your family members.

The bottom line is that you can't even really trust yourself in a SHTF situation. I know we all think we know what we would do and how we would handle things, but I strongly suspect we would all surprise ourselves on some points. I have seen big, burly outdoor men get nervous about the power being out and have seen fluffy, decorative women roll up their sleeves and get the grubby, nasty work done. None of us can say for sure how we will react until we are in the middle of the situation. 

In my martial arts class, for example, testing is designed to be very hard and to really put a lot of stress and pressure on us. I consider myself one of those "never ever quit" kind of people. In the middle of one of my tests last year, I found myself thinking, "I am too old for this crap! This hurts, it's scary, and I'm going to just sit down right here and quit!" Thank God I was pressed into defending myself and muscle memory took over and I started putting up some good blocks. After a few minutes, those strange thoughts went away, but I was really surprised at myself even having them in the first place. And I have to admit, they nearly got the best of me. I can only imagine the intensity of my thoughts if things got really wild. I pray that I will pull through with flying colors, but who knows? I thought I knew myself but I didn't.

I think we need to watch out for surprises. Loved ones may become mistrustful and dangerous. Distant acquaintances may shock you with their generosity and willingness to take risks on your behalf. Remember not to judge any book by its cover when the SHTF.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

jsriley5 said:


> My problem is I can't find 24 people to trust NOW when things are relatively good. How you gonna find em when things are dog eat dog? No where near 25 I have .................enough....................I hope.


I heard someone say that people would do well to have friends you could trust that you could count on the fingers of one hand. My wife and are blessed to have neighbors on both sides that we could trust with our lives. That totals eight of us plus another friend a half mile past us. No where near Paltics' desired number but as to his list, believe me, though we may be small in number we don't lack in abilities and if anyone messed with another in our small circle of friendship the outcome would not be good.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*What kind of*



Frost said:


> Look. I never have had a lot of trust for my fellow humans. Through out history we have done the more horrid things to one another over some of the dumbest reasons. My god is better than your god. I want your wife. bla bla bla bla....
> 
> Here is the truth As I foresee.
> You have 6 months of supply's.
> ...


What kind of a person would I be if i could not make a moral decision just because I was hungery ?

If my neighbor can not trust me not to steal from him, what kind of person am I ?

If I can't trust myself to remain moral and decesant, then I am allowing any wind that blows to control me. I choose never to allow that.

I am going to die. There is no escaping that. I choose to live with a set of values and moral judgment.

I plan to die with those values and judgments intact.

I will strive to survive but not at any cost or at any price !

There are things I will never do.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

hilljen eluded to a situation that could bring any of us down under stress, your mind and the tricks it can pull on you when your under extreme duress. So in many ways it's great to be prepared with food, water, place to hunker down, weapons and ammo but if your mind is not fully prepared for ultimate sacrifices you may just end up cowering in a corner with a pillow over your head.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Paltik said:


> I'm telling you, humans are social by nature--we need other people.


That may be your experience and who you are. To assume that everyone is like you dependent and needy of human interaction would be an erroneous assumption. Not everyone needs distractions to shut the voices off in their head, or affirmations from others to validate their existence. I live for months without TV, internet, phone or any human contact and find I miss out on nothing.

So NO while you may need people and be dependent upon others. Not everyone is like you.


Paltik said:


> Who's going to watch out while you sleep?
> When you have a fever and are so weak you can't get up, who will bring you water to drink?
> When you're out hunting, who'll be guarding your camp?
> What kind of life will you have with nobody to laugh with, talk with, play games with?
> How will you stitch that wound on the back of your head?



My dog and the attack turkeys
I do and have in the past
My dogs
No one. I rarely ever stitch up wounds, is a good way to trap infection in the wound. Instead I scrub them clean with a brush and bleach or antiseptic. Apply antibiotic, duct tape closed if need be, bandage, keep clean. That works for the vast majority of wounds. That is what I did when I got whacked in the back of my melon with a hatchet (by mistake), cept I shaved around the wound. Healed just fine.


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