# Why retire - plan to work till you die



## NaeKid

http://business.financialpost.com/2...tire-and-how-its-changing-the-face-of-labour/

*'Work until I die': Why older Americans are refusing to retire and how it's changing the face of labour*



> He's on County Road 1680 moving like a black-tailed jackrabbit under the big-bowl Oklahoma sky, a tiny dot in his Ford Ranger out on the edge of the world when the flying red stinger ants show up.
> 
> One, two, now three, they invade. Jim Ed Bull swats with a big hand. "They can hurt ya bad," he says.
> 
> Other on-the-job nuisances include hail, mud, diamondback rattlers, wild boars, coyotes, bobcats, porcupines and skunks. Bull keeps on driving. Past stunted wheat fields of drought and disappointment, he rolls.
> 
> Fifty, 55, 60 mph. Turning up a driveway, he reaches out the window and, snap, the mailbox opens. Bull is a letter carrier with the longest postal route in America, 187.6 miles (301.8 kilometres) across some of the loneliest territory in the country. He's 72, and part of the fastest-growing segment of the U.S. labor force - those who work past their 65th birthdays.
> 
> Into the mailbox goes the weekly Southwest Oklahoma Shopper and a letter from Stockmans Bank, and slam, the door shuts tight. Snap-and-slam wasn't always the soundtrack of Bull's workday. He was a high school principal, coach and referee who retired in the late '90s only to come back to a payroll. Now he's one of 7.2 million Americans who were 65 and over and employed last year, a 67% jump from 10 years before.
> 
> They work longer hours and earn more than they did a decade ago. Fifty-eight per cent are full-time compared to 52% in 2002, and their median weekly pay has gone up to US$825 from US$502. In the second quarter, government data show, Bull and his peers made US$49 more a week than all workers 16 and older.
> 
> *Perpetual Employment*
> 
> Retirement is rarely the discrete here's-your-gold-watch event it once was. With pensions ever more scarce, millions face perpetual employment.
> 
> "It's becoming the norm," says Kevin Cahill, research economist at Boston College's Sloan Center on Aging and Work.
> 
> Older Americans' reasons for staying in the workforce cover the spectrum in the post-recession economy. Some need the money to live day-to-day, some want to build up battered 401(k) plans or put more away for their kids, some find that the daily activity organizes their lives in ways they can't on their own, keeping them connected and useful.
> 
> For Bull, who has a pension and Social Security and a $62,000 annual salary, it's mostly about family. With what his wife, Susan, a second-grade teacher, makes, they earn six figures. He says his working helps them maintain a comfortable lifestyle, and allows him to save to leave something substantial for Susan, who's 17 years his junior, and for his grandchildren.
> 
> *No Resentment*
> 
> While Oklahoma's economy thrives on a robust oil and gas industry, Bull worries about the two grandkids, and the prospect of their generation facing a staggering national debt.
> 
> Eddie Beard, 75, is a fellow rural letter carrier whose route is a mere 147 miles. A Church of Christ preacher, he came to the U.S. Postal Service 18 years ago for the retirement plan "because the clergy doesn't have one."
> 
> Lawyer Mike Henry, 73, a customer on Bull's route, still goes to the office because he declared bankruptcy in 1987 after losing his Texas real-estate investments when crude oil prices plunged. "I need the money," Henry says. He figures he'll work "until I die."
> 
> Like Bull and Beard, he harbours no resentment.
> 
> "It keeps me alive and alert and it gives me something to do where I can help folks," says Henry, who estimates half his legal work these days is pro bono. "I have said if I won the lottery, I wouldn't quit."
> 
> *Longevity's Downside*
> 
> The longevity has a downside. Seniors are, in some cases, "crowding out" younger unemployed workers waiting for spots to open, says economist Gary Burtless of the Brookings Institute.
> 
> They've expressed their frustration to Jeanette Dwyer, president of the National Rural Letter Carriers' Association, an Alexandria, Virginia-based union with more than 100,000 members, including Bull. "The economy has had an effect of everybody staying longer in their current jobs," she says.
> 
> Postmaster Jeff Real at Bull's home office in Mangum says every one of his rural drivers has a backup, or sub, and they can wait six or seven years to get their own routes.
> 
> With military veterans and retirees from first jobs in the mix, the Postal Service abounds with grayhairs. Of 615,360 employees, agency data show 46% are over 50 compared to 39% at the grayest Fortune 500 company, American Airlines. Five thousand postal employees are 70 or more and 695 of those are exactly Bull's age, 72. Another 223 are over 80.
> 
> *Improbable Run*
> 
> Bull says the job keeps him youthful: "A guy guessed I was 55. I corrected him: 39."
> 
> His improbable run stretches across the southern reaches of the Great Plains through and around the tiny towns of Duke and Eldorado where the emptiness makes the stars, the moon, the edge of a riverbed appear larger than life to the uninitiated.
> 
> The land moves north from the Red River, quiet and flat, its dusky iron-rich earth cracked and blistered by two years of drought. Wells dried up and wheat folded over and died.
> 
> Farmers recall with some anxiety stories from their parents about the 1930s Dust Bowl, when the sky turned black and deadly. Steinbeck found his characters here for "The Grapes of Wrath," left with nothing, "hungry and restless, restless as ants."
> 
> While some towns in Bull's region had 2.12 inches of rain the last 10 days, that won't make up for what's lost.
> 
> The June harvest of wheat - called winter wheat for it's already long in the ground - fell to 3.5 million acres statewide, 800,000 less than in the dry year before. The 150,000 acres of cotton planted this year were the fewest since 1909.
> 
> *Fiery Red*
> 
> The county where Bull picks up his mail, Greer, and where he mostly delivers, Jackson, remain fiery red on the U.S. Drought Monitor map - each of them 4 on a scale of 5.
> 
> "There wasn't much good that's come out of there this year or the last four or five," says Mike Schulte, who heads the Oklahoma Wheat Commission, a state agency. "You've just got to be a really strong person to make it."
> 
> In 36 years with three school districts, Bull counts his sick days on one hand - five - and tallies just as many in 13 years as a carrier, first as a substitute in 2000 and then as a full-timer in 2007. The temperatures he works in can swing 120 degrees Fahrenheit, from 115 (46 Celsius) in the summer to below zero in the winter's wind.
> 
> Five years ago, the snow and ice were so deep on the road that his power steering gave out. He zigged and zagged and tore through an electric fence, leaving a hole for 50 head of cattle to roam free. He pushed on the gas, nudging the truck out of trouble and on to the nearest farm for help.
> 
> "You just never know what might happen," Bull says over rib-eye and potato salad at his favourite steakhouse.
> 
> *New Knee*
> 
> Bull stands without a stoop at six-foot-three, 215 pounds. His resting pulse is 43. He had his left knee replaced in 2009. He takes one prescription drug, Lisinopril, to regulate his blood pressure. A Southern Baptist, he neither smokes nor drinks, though he does favour an occasional plate of greasy ribs.
> 
> His facial features are long and angular and his complexion ruddy. In summer, he wears sneakers, dungaree shorts and a red T-shirt with a "Postal Worker" icon nestled over an eagle, his only identifier. (His truck has no lettering because "they already know it's me coming.") His white hair belies his energy. His arms are toned, his gait quick.
> 
> Still, by the end of the week, Bull is tuckered out. He says he hopes to keep going for another three years, if his health holds up. Daily, he confronts the aches, pains and muscle pulls of sitting for hours, steering with one hand and snapping open mailboxes with the other.
> 
> "I'm kind of weary by Friday," he admits. "But then I can recuperate on the weekend."
> 
> How does he do that? "I mow my lawn."
> 
> *'Something Clicked'*
> 
> Every day starts with as many as 50 push-ups and 50 sit-ups. Home is a neat and modern three bedrooms in red brick at the end of a small suburban development in Altus, big enough for the two grandchildren to spend the night. Seven sets of old golf clubs are tucked away in a backyard shed, proof of his love for the game.
> 
> He and his wife bought the house four years ago for US$215,000. He has one son from his previous marriage, she has a son and daughter from hers. They met through her father, a preacher who thought enough of Bull to pass him his daughter's number after Bull saw her sing at a church fellowship meeting.
> 
> "We looked at each other and something just clicked," he recalls.
> 
> By 7 o'clock each morning, Bull is at the McDonald's inside the Wal-Mart around the corner from home. He checks his wristwatch as he chews a bacon-egg-and-cheese biscuit. A dab or two of jelly makes it onto the biscuit. The rest he squeezes from two foil packets into his mouth, like astronaut food.
> 
> *Dust, Mud*
> 
> Bill Berry, one of the regulars, walks over. "Watch that mud today, Jim Ed," the retired firefighter says. The rain has turned more than a few of Bull's pathways into mailman quicksand, and once he had to be pulled out by a tractor.
> 
> "The dust and the mud, those are my enemies," he says.
> 
> He warms his coffee with a half refill and heads for the parking lot. It's 16 miles through long stretches of pastureland to the post office in Mangum, in the old courthouse. He's been driving there since last year when his route was redrawn to become the longest. It was part of the agency's effort to reduce costs and offset debt.
> 
> In Mangum, the empty streets and abandoned storefronts evoke the loneliness of "The Last Picture Show," the 1971 movie adapted from Larry McMurtry's novel about small-town Texas. Inside, Bull hurries to his work station, metal cabinets with myriad slots set at right angles, one cabinet each for Duke, population 424, and Eldorado, 446.
> 
> *Ice Cubes*
> 
> By 9:45, he's separated the letters into five bundles about the size of bread loaves but a lot heavier. He's ready to leave with the bundles, 100 weekly shoppers and eight packages when another carrier walks over with a stack that was inadvertently sent to his pile.
> 
> "Dad gummit," Bull says.
> 
> At 10:04, he pulls up to the drive-through window at his first stop, The Shop Around the Corner, and passes the mail to the woman at the cash register. In turn, he's handed a large Styrofoam cup of ice cubes that will sit on the truck floor and melt, generating his cold drinking water.
> 
> "Here we go," he says. The Postal Service doesn't supply rural carriers with vehicles, and Bull eschews modifications to his truck or special equipment. Instead, he sits between the two front seats, his body in the middle of the cab. His left hand holds the steering wheel, his left foot operates the gas and brake, and his long right arm inserts the mail.
> 
> *Untamed Mesquite*
> 
> Every rural route is assessed a time for completion. Using a formula based on volume of mail and number of stops - he has 198 - postal inspectors who followed Bull around for two weeks decided the route, including the sorting of mail or "casing," could be done in 9.4 hours. That number determines his salary.
> 
> Bull opens a brown mailbox door twisted and bent. Inside is a week's worth of bills and notices. Slam.
> 
> "Husband's in jail," he says in explaining the backup. When it comes to his customers, there's not a lot Bull doesn't know or see. One man has appeared in his front yard on three separate occasions this summer totally naked. "I don't want to get too close," Bull says.
> 
> By 11:30, he's made about 90 stops and heads for Eldorado along some of his longest stretches without a single delivery. Past untamed mesquite, cottonwood, bois d'arcs and gray wooden windmills that bring up water for the cattle, he flies, dodging chugholes and more mud.
> 
> *Every Drop*
> 
> Obstacles like this and the sharp road gravel force an average of one flat tire a week, two brake jobs a year and the purchase of a reliable used truck every four. The Postal Service pays 73 cents a mile for maintenance and gasoline, a sum Bull says barely covers costs.
> 
> At one early stop, Audy Edwards is in his front yard. "How much you get here in Eldorado, Audy?" Bull calls out. "We had 2.55 inches last night," Edwards says, referencing a rain gauge mounted on back of the box. "Another .30 this morning."
> 
> Every drop counts.
> 
> Bull follows a slow-moving black car. "I hate to drive behind these farmers," he grumbles.
> 
> His dad Hurshel was a farmer, a stout and strong man who married Bull's mother, Ola Mae, in 1933. She died in 2009 at age 93. She'd been the high school valedictorian, as were each of their three children - Anita Louise, Jim Ed and Ricky Lynn.
> 
> *Energy Bars*
> 
> All of them went to college and earned teaching degrees. Bull rose through the ranks to become principal of Mangum's junior high and then the high school. As a student, he excelled in baseball and basketball, earning a scholarship to a community college. His dream was major-league baseball but the closest he ever came was coaching two high school players who were drafted.
> 
> Minutes after noon, he pulls a plastic bag from behind his seat with a bagged assortment of Slim Jim beef sticks, raisins, energy bars and peanut-butter-and-crackers. He settles on the raisins and points the truck to more open spaces.
> 
> "I'll eat when I get home," he says of the meagre lunch fare. He leans over to turn on the AM radio. Talk host Sean Hannity on 1290 AM declares George Zimmerman, acquitted in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, "had no duty to retreat."
> 
> Bull likes Hannity. Financial planners who host shows too. "I hang on their every word," he says with a grin.
> 
> He retired as a principal in 1995 and went to Arkansas to play golf at a course a friend owns, working part-time as a landscaper. He came home in 1998 to take care of his sister when she was diagnosed with cancer. After he married Susan, he began to rethink his finances. As a teacher, she's entitled to a pension. Still, the age difference looms. He figures she'll outlive him, and then there are the grandchildren.
> 
> *Last Words*
> 
> "You couldn't say I'm worried," he says. "I just want to feel secure and not worry about my family."
> 
> His earnings also allow the couple to do something they don't like to broadcast: good deeds. That could mean delivering groceries to the home of a student who shows up to his wife's class hungry or paying the fuel bill to help a family through a cold Oklahoma winter.
> 
> "He takes taking care of people seriously," Susan Bull says of her husband.
> 
> That sense of duty gelled for him at 18, she says, when his world caved. His father, mentor and friend suffered severe whiplash roping a 500-pound steer. Bull's uncle drove him to the hospital in his '55 Chevy. For Bull, the pace was too slow.
> 
> "I would have floor-boarded all the way into town," he says. On the last mile, Bull, in the back seat, cradled his father. As Hurshel Bull gasped for air, he uttered his last words: Take care of your mother and Ricky, the younger brother who was only two months and two days old.
> 
> "I promised him I would," Bull says, choking back tears as he drives.
> 
> *Dinner Prayer*
> 
> That was 1959 and his father, just 45, had been on the verge of a breakout year as a cattleman. Having put together enough money to amass what farmers call a section - 640 acres of prime pastureland - he was on his way to expanding the operation and lifting his family out of poverty.
> 
> His death, Susan Bull says, cemented her husband's lifelong commitment to work and providing for his family.
> 
> Bull grips the wheel and looks toward the horizon. There's just one stop left. A woman who lives alone gets the shopper. Snap, slam. He drives back to Mangum to fill out his timecard.
> 
> On the way home, he drops by his favourite rib joint, the All-American in the town of Blair. A plate of pork ribs and a large sweet tea in front of him, he looks down and prays.
> 
> "Thank you, Lord, for the food, for the rain and for keeping us safe another day."


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## Geek999

The concept of retirement was not widespread until the Depression when Social Security was introduced to reduce poverty among seniors and free up jobs for younger workers. With increasing life expectancy and other adverse demographic trends, retirement is becoming more difficult to afford so normal retirement age will be increasing and fewer people will be fully retiring.


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## Grimm

Both my parents are now retired. My dad does some math tutoring here and there but that is to keep his mind sharp. 

They were only able to do this because as soon as they graduated college they started planning for retirement.


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## TheLazyL

Sister took Social Security as soon as she could (62?). Her theory is get SS before it is eliminated.

My theory is to retire at 70 and start SS (monthly payments are double then if I started at 62). Age 70 to 75 work part time for pocket money. 75 to 80 spoil the grand kids. 80 to ? drive the nursing home staff and my children crazy!


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## LincTex

> Mike Henry, 73, .... figures he'll work "until I die."


Same here. I don't see any other way out.


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## RoseAlba

My husband & I have worked hard to pay everything off and save for retirement but we are always aware of the fact that at any time, one of us is only one serious illness away from complete ruin.

I still work so I have insurance and I'm pretty lucky because I got bit by a rabid raccoon and my bill was in the neighborhood of $30K. I paid about $5K of it out of pocket. Had I not had insurance I would have had to have taken a loan out on the house. That's for one stupid bite. Not a heart attack, not cancer or any of the other terrible illnesses that happen to the elderly (and not so elderly).

My husband has medicare but even that is still expensive and can plough through your savings pretty fast. I don't have any faith in Obama care but truly, something has to be done.

Because what else do we do? Tell the elderly not to fall? Not to become frail?

I could retire tomorrow if I were not worried about health insurance. Because unless you're someone like Warren Buffet you will never have enough saved for a serious illness without some kind of insurance.

And even with insurance, if you have a serious illness you still have a pretty good chance of going bankrupt. I've seen it - my mother had cancer and my father lost every single thing they owned, even their house. My mom was insured with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Yay. We had to fight them to do the right thing every-single-day. At least she had us in her corner, many elderly don't and end up on the street after a spouse dies.

So yeah, a lot of us see this happening and try to work as long as our minds and bodies will allow us to.


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## Grimm

TheLazyL said:


> Sister took Social Security as soon as she could (62?). Her theory is get SS before it is eliminated.
> 
> My theory is to retire at 70 and start SS (monthly payments are double then if I started at 62). Age 70 to 75 work part time for pocket money. 75 to 80 spoil the grand kids. 80 to ? drive the nursing home staff and my children crazy!


Your SS check will be less the amount you are making at your part time job. My dad dealt with this when he first retired in Oct. He works for cash only now.


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## Tweto

I have made the decision to start SSI at 62 because I want to get locked into the program before they change it. When I do the math, it would take me to age 76 to catch-up with difference that waiting to 66 would give me. Since only 1 male in my family has ever lived past age 77, taking SSI at 62 is much smarter.

Be warned that congress has talked about increasing the minimum age for SS from 62 to an older age (maybe 65). So if you are 63 and they change the minimum age to 65 and you have a emergency and can't work any longer then you are in trouble.

I retired from my company 1 day before they lowered the pensions and health payments. Several people that I worked with that were eligible for retirement with me decided to wait. 5 years after I retired they canceled the standard pension and then the company closed its doors at that location and everyone was out of work. Since they don't have a pension they will now have to work till they die.:eyebulge:

Sometimes it's better to get while the gettin is good!!!


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## BillS

Very few people are financially prepared for retirement. Baby boomers don't save like their parents did. And they won't get pensions like their parents did either. There are a lot of people 60 and older with a lot of credit card debt. Or they're paying mortgages when they should have their houses paid for. Or they're buying new vehicles that won't be paid for by the time they turn 65. There's a whole consumer mentality that you might have had at 40 that you can't have at 65. You have to be prepared to live on a lot less and most people aren't equipped to do that.

My wife has a 401k and for now she is supposed to get a small pension from the mill. But that pension could be phased out before she retires. She's 5 years younger than me so she'll be able to work longer and that will be a big help for me.

I'm self-employed. I buy and sell stuff online. I expect to work well into my 70s. But given that I'm a prepper, I expect an economic collapse long before that. I don't expect to be here 5 years from now.


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## Sentry18

My parents (72 & 66) are both retired and living on a combination of two gov't pensions and savings. They will live comfortably for the remainder of their days. They were in their 40's before the got serious about retirement savings so they pushed that lesson onto me and my siblings when we were in our teens. Save early and save often because compounding interest is the key.

So I started saving the day I got a full time job. My wife and I both put 10% of our net income into retirement. I get 10% matching funds from the state and the Mrs. gets 5% matching + profit sharing + bonuses (and she makes more than me). We also put any money from inheritances, tax refunds and similar circumstances directly into retirement savings. We do not take on needless debt, we do not use credit cards and we live below our means. I am eligible for 75% pension at age 46 and full pension at age 56.


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## Tirediron

I will keep on working until I die, having to find something to occupy my time does not sound like fun, I definately am not going to be one of the drug prolonged lives in a nursing home.


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## TheLazyL

Tweto said:


> I have made the decision to start SSI at 62 ...only 1 male in my family has ever lived past age 77...


I"M the other way.

Grandpa lived to 99, Dad to 91.

Lazy L males have a history of long lives, that can be good or bad depending on your relationship with us


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## Provider

My Uncle Jack is 106 and the only day he rests is Sunday. He drives to a local school to talk to youngsters about the "old days". Doesn't take any meds, unless you count the one Baby Aspirin every morning. 

Me...retirement is not an option.


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## GrinnanBarrett

It wasn't the money that put me off from fully retiring. It was the fact that I had worked since I was eleven years old. I don't know how to not work. That is not bragging. Believe me, I would love to be able to take trips and play golf or go fishing. When you work for 55 years and then try to cut it off you risk shutting off your drive to live. Plus what would the family do without the money tree we have in the back yard? GB


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## Sentry18

Hey GB, my Dad retired about 7 years ago and is busier now than he ever was working. He drives disabled veterans to the VA for appointments, helps elderly people learn how to use digital cameras and devices (even computers) so they can keep in touch with their kids/grandkids, teaches a class at the state police academy, serves as VP of a LEO retiree's association, is a mentor to a HS student with no father figure, drives people to voting stations, teaches hunter safety, goes hunting and fishing (also with 12-16 year olds with no father figure), believes his yard is suppose to look like a golf course, teaches a class about medicare, etc., etc., etc. I could go on for another 2 paragraphs and I would still miss something. His favorite one liner is "I don't know how I ever had time for a job".


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## Tweto

I think it's a perception that when you retire you just sit around. How wrong you are if you think this. I laid around for maybe a week after I retired but since then I have been busy at least 8-10 hours a day 7 days a week. The difference is I don't have a boss (well maybe my wife).

If you can afford it, I see no reason not to retire. It is very scarily to radically change your life. One thing I can promise anyone is if you don't control your life some one else will and they don't know what you want from life.

I have seen way to many have to retire because they were forced to retire because of illness or being forced to retire and then regretting not retiring earlier on their own decision. No one ever said on their death bed "I should of worked more overtime".


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## Sentry18

I also wanted to add that my Dad's partner did not retire. When my Dad gave up the badge his partner decided to go work for the state in a non-LEO role. In July he finally broke down and told his wife that he would retire in September 2013, he died two weeks later of an unexpected illness.


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## tsrwivey

Sentry18 said:


> Hey GB, my Dad retired about 7 years ago and is busier now than he ever was working.


My dad did the same thing. He retired at 55 & now runs a homeless shelter where he volunteers 50-60 hours a week & is on call constantly. He also plays in a band. He loves it.

We plan to be in the financial position to retire in 10 years, honestly I doubt I will. I love what I do & get way more out of it than I put into it but I do want to spend more time on a reef somewhere.


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## Tweto

My grandfather retired then died 2 weeks later. He always told me that he would work till he died and he was a man of his word. He had stage 4 cancer and didn't know it. He was 62. He drank and smoked.

My father died at age 77 and he didn't drink or smoke. Pneumonia.

My cousin just died from heart failure, he was 58 and still working. He didn't drink or smoke.

I have one cousin left and he is 55.

That's all the males on my fathers side.

On my mother side there are no males left. All of them died more then 10 years ago.

Oh, and all of the females on both side live into their 90's.


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## cowboyhermit

Retire from what, my life? I guess if you really love what you do "retirement" is a strange concept. If I really wanted to sleep in and relax more I would find a way to do that today rather than waiting till I am even older. But I like to have to get up in the morning, I am happier and healthier when I do, so why would I try to find some other way to occupy my time than what I have devoted my life to?

All that aside, being able to support yourself if I HAD to "retire" is a personal responsibility I wish everyone would take seriously.


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## Jimmy24

What I like about retirement is I make the call when I want to work and when I don't. My woodworking keeps me busy enough along with a few spare $. I have a company pension. I will take SS when I hit 62. 

Had Lung cancer in '10 and had to retire at 56. It's a PITA, but I got something going on all the time.

I figure if I stop working, I stop breathing.... 

Jimmy


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## Tweto

I'm 60 and retired. At 62 I will be taking SSI.

An important point to taking at 62 is that there has been talk of increasing the minimum age to 65. If this happens then the people that are receiving SSI at 62 will continue to get it., but if you had decided to wait and at age 63 they change the minimum age to 65 then you just got screwed. You would have missed out on 5 years of SSI. If it changes to a minimum age at 65 then the mature full pay age will be 70 so what that means is that the money at 62 is the same as the money at 65 if the minimum is changed.


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## LincTex

Tweto said:


> but if you had decided to wait and at age 63 they change the minimum age to 65 then you just got screwed..


Not really. 
It's better to wait until 65 anyway because of the much larger payment.


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## LincTex

I would say it depends on how healthy you are. 
If you REALLY don't think you will make it to 65, then by all means start payments at 62.

If you are pretty confident you will live until 80, then don't start SS until 65 and you will be much money ahead...

I was born after 1960, so I'll never collect before age 67 regardless. 
That really sucks.... because I wonder if I will make it to 67


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## Country Living

There are a lot of times a person doesn't have the option of working either through job elimination / unavailability or illness. I saw retirement as just one part of prepping. 

I was lucky. I was dirt poor early in life and learned the lesson that if you're painfully poor and young you can climb out of it. You can't climb out of being painfully poor and old. 

The lessons I learned early in life are to live below my means, save first and spend second, avoid debt at all costs - if I couldn't save for it I probably didn't need it, "stuff" is expensive, and to balance the wants of the present with the needs of the future. I constantly monitored my financial future to make sure I could live on my pension OR investments OR social security. 

I retired at 55 and I'm convinced I've added years of quality living to my life by not sitting in rush hour traffic and facing deadlines at work. It helps we moved to the ranch so we're far removed from the demands of the megacity.

By retiring young and in good health, we're able to do so many things we might not be able to do in our 70s or 80s. I know too many people who had to retire because of their health and then they weren't able to enjoy retirement. 

I think most people want the decision to retire to be their decision instead of one based on medical or loss of their job. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen that way.


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## Tweto

Country Living said:


> There are a lot of times a person doesn't have the option of working either through job elimination / unavailability or illness. I saw retirement as just one part of prepping.
> 
> I was lucky. I was dirt poor early in life and learned the lesson that if you're painfully poor and young you can climb out of it. You can't climb out of being painfully poor and old.
> 
> The lessons I learned early in life are to live below my means, save first and spend second, avoid debt at all costs - if I couldn't save for it I probably didn't need it, "stuff" is expensive, and to balance the wants of the present with the needs of the future. I constantly monitored my financial future to make sure I could live on my pension OR investments OR social security.
> 
> I retired at 55 and I'm convinced I've added years of quality living to my life by not sitting in rush hour traffic and facing deadlines at work. It helps we moved to the ranch so we're far removed from the demands of the megacity.
> 
> By retiring young and in good health, we're able to do so many things we might not be able to do in our 70s or 80s. I know too many people who had to retire because of their health and then they weren't able to enjoy retirement.
> 
> I think most people want the decision to retire to be their decision instead of one based on medical or loss of their job. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen that way.


We may have lived the same life. I do believe that reducing stress by retiring early is the smartest thing to do. Where I used to work when people retired at 60 or older, I was reading there obit on the company bill board within 2 years, but the ones that retired early live 10-20 and more years. In fact I saw several people drop dead at there desks in the 30 years I worked there.


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## Tweto

LincTex said:


> Not really.
> It's better to wait until 65 anyway because of the much larger payment.


I'm not sure if you actually read my post or maybe I didn't explain it correctly.

The point of my post was that if you decide to wait to 65 or 66 and the government changes the minimum retirement age to 65 from 62 and you have not already started to collect at 62 you will be locked out till 65. Here's the kicker. If they raise the retirement minimum age that will be the age where you receive the minimum payment (same as at 62 before)it will not be the higher allowance. You just lost 4 years of SSI.

If they don't raise the minimum age then it will take till the age of 72-74 to make up the difference .

The government or a financial planner will not tell you this.

I'm not willing to take that chance since I have other retirement money. The increase in my retirement income would only be about 3% more.


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## Country Living

Tweto said:


> I'm not sure if you actually read my post or maybe I didn't explain it correctly.
> 
> The point of my post was that if you decide to wait to 65 or 66 and the government changes the minimum retirement age to 65 from 62 and *you have not already started to collect at 62 you will be locked out till 65*. Here's the kicker. If they raise the retirement minimum age that will be the age where you receive the minimum payment (same as at 62 before)it will not be the higher allowance. You just lost 4 years of SSI.
> 
> If they don't raise the minimum age then it will take till the age of 72-74 to make up the difference .
> 
> The government or a financial planner will not tell you this.
> 
> I'm not willing to take that chance since I have other retirement money. The increase in my retirement income would only be about 3% more.


The more likely scenario is everyone over the age of... probably 55 will be grandfathered under the old rules.


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## LincTex

Country Living said:


> The more likely scenario is everyone over the age of... probably 55 will be grandfathered under the old rules.


Yes... the AARP would raise holy hell if the same benefit amount was just "shifted up" a few years - - they have full time attorneys on staff watching for details in the laws like that.... and a VERY powerful lobbying group!

But once the baby boomers "have theirs", all bets are off. I would expect new laws to be written that grandfathers-in existing retirees, and then everybody else gets the boot. Just wait.


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## Country Living

LincTex said:


> Yes... the AARP would raise holy hell if the same benefit amount was just "shifted up" a few years - - they have full time attorneys on staff watching for details in the laws like that.... and a VERY powerful lobbying group!
> 
> But once the baby boomers "have theirs", all bets are off. I would expect new laws to be written that grandfathers-in existing retirees, and then everybody else gets the boot. Just wait.


The younger folks would get something... just not as much as their predecessors. It's similar to the (former) pension plan where I worked until I retired. When I retired, I got my (reduced for retiring before age 62) pension. A few months later the pensions were frozen and penalties for retiring early were more harsh. Then they were moved to a cash balance plan with the same harsh penalties for early retirement. Changing types of plans as well as eligibility rules is pretty common in the private sector and I expect the public sector, including SS, to follow.


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## LincTex

Country Living said:


> I got my (reduced for retiring before age 62) pension. A few months later the pensions were frozen and penalties for retiring early were more harsh.


You got VERY lucky. There was no way of knowing beforehand that was how things were going to go down.


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## TheLazyL

Male moment...accidentally double tap


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## TheLazyL

Tweto said:


> ..if you decide to wait ...If they raise the retirement minimum age...If they don't ...


And continuing the "if" game.

What if you take SS at 63 and a year later the Feds cut the amount your receive in half? Your President is already talking about taking 401Ks over a undetermined amount.


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## Tweto

I retired on July 31 2001. On Aug 1 2001 the company decreased the pension amounts and in a few years after that eliminated the service pension completely. If you were still working there even if you had 40 years with the company you lost everything. There were no grandfather rights. 

I didn't know it at the time but by retiring before the company reduced and then eliminated all pensions that I retained all rights to a 100% pension and benefits. On the reverse of that, if you have not retired then you have no rights, only promises.

Concerning the government and SSI, I would say that the most likely scenario is that there would be some grandfathering. Given the economy and the seriousness of the financial state of the government. I don't know for sure and that is why I will start at 62YOA.


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## Country Living

LincTex said:


> You got VERY lucky. There was no way of knowing beforehand that was how things were going to go down.


My brother had even better luck than that. A few years ago he got a call on the QT from a friend in accounting who strongly suggested my brother put in for retirement that day. Even though my brother wasn't quite ready to retire.... he put in his papers that afternoon, his retirement was processed the next day, and he was out the door at the end of the week.

The following week the company announced the pension plan was eliminated effective immediately due to unprecedented economic factors. Anyone who was retired at that point would receive their full retirement benefits, including retiree medical.

Sometimes there's just handwriting on the wall. My spouse worked for a tech company who merged with another tech company. An early retirement package was available to anyone who was age 50 (spouse just turned 50) and who had been at the company 25 years (spouse just cross the 25th year mark). Spouse took the package that also included medical benefits; however, several friends at the company who were also eligible said they couldn't because of house payments, car payments, credit card payments, boat payments.....

They lost their jobs within a year. Usually any decent early retirement offering, especially after a merger, precedes a layoff.


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## LincTex

Horrible stories y'all have 

And the water in the pot continues to get hotter....


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## Tweto

TheLazyL said:


> And continuing the "if" game.
> 
> What if you take SS at 63 and a year later the Feds cut the amount your receive in half? Your President is already talking about taking 401Ks over a undetermined amount.


If the government decides to discontinue social security completely, I do not have any control of that. What I do have control over is when I start collecting.

Playing that "if" game has been very profitable for me. I can not find any hard facts that the government will be taking any of my retirement money , but "if" they decide to do it, I have already propositioned myself to decrease or eliminate the risks.


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## majmill

Why retire - plan to work until you die.
Well, you don't always have a choice.

Five years ago a 10 mile hike up the side of a mountain was FUN!
Today getting me and my walker from the bedroom to the 
kitchen is a chore.
I have no major illnesses, but my eyesight has deteriorated to 
the point that I can no longer drive and none of my joints work 
properly anymore.
Retirement gives us new opportunities to contribute to the community in different ways!
Life should be enjoyed both while working and when retired, so go for it!


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## Tweto

majmill said:


> Why retire - plan to work until you die.
> Well, you don't always have a choice.
> 
> Five years ago a 10 mile hike up the side of a mountain was FUN!
> Today getting me and my walker from the bedroom to the
> kitchen is a chore.
> I have no major illnesses, but my eyesight has deteriorated to
> the point that I can no longer drive and none of my joints work
> properly anymore.
> Retirement gives us new opportunities to contribute to the community in different ways!
> Life should be enjoyed both while working and when retired, so go for it!


Old age creeps up on us like the frog in slowly warming water and then it starts to boil and you now know that it's to late.

30 somethings, 40 somethings have now knowledge of this and that's when I hear "I'll work till I'm dead" comments. These are the people that have to work because they don't want to admit that they mismanaged their life and did not save enough for retirement.

For every 1 person that I have known that retired of their own decision, I have known 25 that retired because of health reasons or the company forced them to retire.

I will speak only for myself but I did not work 40 years of my life so I could continue to work till I'm dead. I spent my life working towards a goal to be a completely independent (without obligations) and answering only to myself.


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## TheLazyL

majmill said:


> ...but my eyesight has deteriorated to
> the point that I can no longer drive and none of my joints work
> properly anymore...Retirement ...


A 85 year old man told his buddy that he just proposed to his 84 year old girlfriend and she said, "yes".

Buddy asked, "Does she have a bunch of money?"

"Nope. She has a driver's license!"


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## rawhide2971

Held my fingers as long as I could and have kept up with this thread for a while and just have to put a word of two in so if some comments seem out of sequence its becasue I can't rememebr how far back I read something that made me go "ah ha".....so bear with me.
I turn 61 next week...seems like was in the RVN just a few weeks ago...wierd... but there it is.
1. I would never ever put any faith in the AARP, bunch of self serving turd sucking monkeys if ever there was a bunch.....
2. What the gooberment gives they can take away....I hope there is something left of SSN by the time I can sign up for it but the way things are going I am not counting on it...sure looks gloomy. 
3. I have a 401K. And its a pretty good one, my company does a good matching rate at 6% and I pack in a good amount and despite having to start over 10 years ago after a long stint of being laid off I have a pretty good nest egg laid away and the wife has a pretty good retirement set up with her State Job. Problem is how safe is the 401K...we all saw what went on in Europe with asets being siezed by some of the Gooberments over there...Greece for sure and if I am not mistaken there are a few members of the current administration that have made no secret that they feel that private retirments funds are "UNFAIR" and that its stealing money from the Goberment....seems like it was some woman ...can't rememebr her name but she was pretty ugly about the rights of those of us that are "ANTS" that have the good sense to save for our own retirement.....bottom line and has been said I don't want nor plan to work until I drop dead....I want to sit on my porch, do a little fishing, chase hot women, maybe catch a few slow ones if the wife is not around and hope I remember what to do with them.....play with the grand kids or just be able to do what the heck I want to without having to work on somone elses schedule..sure I might pick up a part time job but it will be something on my own schedule. I don't trust anyone but myself with my money, my future, my kids, grandkids and my freedom.....off my soapbox....havea lovely day


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## crabapple

I got the land, the shop & most of the tools.
I have 15 to 20 years till I retire, IF all my hoarding works out as planned.
But I have come to the simple fact that I can not wait till I retire.
I need to do it now, may not able to by them, if then ever comes.


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## sailaway

I'll be 53 next month, and other than the married years felt like I have always been retired. I have always saved for retirement, but in the form of apartment buildings. My life is slowly becoming a write off. One building is in FL. and the other is in Oh., and my bud Magus is midway between the two Sometimes I take the long way home and swing by UncleJoes:sssh:

Social Security will always be around, my grand parents used theirs to travel in Europe, I will use mine for the electric bill.

I have never wanted an IRA-401K,I'm at the bottom of the babyboom, no one with any money after me to pass the paper on to. Now the goobermint is talking about writing IOU's and borrowing all of your money. I'd be squaking really loud right now if I had one, kinda like our second amendment rights.

I will always work, I'd be bored stiff if I didn't. Some of the jobs I'm looking into are document*courier to* Europe and hang out with Vertigo cruiseship gigolo entertaining single women on cruises, dance partner you dirty dogs, lol. Or maybe campground host. My ultimate fantasy job would be live aboard dive boat captain. I may start another business doing things I enjoy. 

I like what Tom Brokaw said about retirement, " he was going to think less about less."


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