# How to tell if pail is "food grade"?



## cjconrad

Hello,

Nearly 10 years ago, I bought a 5 gallon sealed pail of natural wildflower honey. As I was looking at it yesterday, it struck me that I don't really know if it is "food grade" or not. And, if not, does that mean that the honey should be discarded?

It has a manufacturer's label that reads "Holiday Housewares, Inc; form and function" and "Utility Pail" and "Leominster, MA 01453" and a UPC code of "41794-01205". The plastic itself is pressed with the following (some on the lid, some of the pail bottom):

"Plastican inc, Leominster MA, Dallas Texas, Macon GA, Phoenix AZ"
 "4OCG-2"
 "2" in a triangle with "HDPE" underneath it
 "N.R.C. 090"
 "40-BB 5 US GAL"
 "1H2/Y25/S/99"

My internet searches seem to bring up only company references (not the company itself).

All help appreciated!

Craig


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## bunkerbob

I copied this from a brining website...Food Grade Plastic Containers For Brining - The Virtual Weber Bullet

What Is Plastic?

Plastic is made from hydrocarbons derived from petroleum or natural gas. The hydrocarbons are formed into chains called polymers, or plastic resins. By combining hydrocarbon molecules in different ways, different types of plastic can be created.

What Is Food Grade Plastic?

The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.

Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.

Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.

Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.

Types Of Plastic

In the United States, the following codes represent the seven categories of plastic used in nearly all plastic containers and product packaging:

PET or PETE (polyethylene terephthalate) is a clear, tough polymer with exceptional gas and moisture barrier properties. PET's ability to contain carbon dioxide (carbonation) makes it ideal for use in soft drink bottles.
Examples: Soft drink bottles, detergent bottles

HDPE (high density polyethylene) is used in milk, juice and water containers in order to take advantage of its excellent protective barrier properties. Its chemical resistance properties also make it well suited for items such as containers for household chemicals and detergents. Most five gallon food buckets are made from HDPE.
Examples: Milk bottles, shopping bags

Vinyl (polyvinyl chloride, or PVC) provides excellent clarity, puncture resistance and cling. As a film, vinyl can breathe just the right amount, making it ideal for packaging fresh meats that require oxygen to ensure a bright red surface while maintaining an acceptable shelf life.
Examples: Plastic food wrap, shrink wrap, garden hoses, shoe soles

LDPE (low density polyethylene) offers clarity and flexibility. It is used to make bottles that require flexibility. To take advantage of its strength and toughness in film form, it is used to produce grocery bags and garbage bags, shrink and stretch film, and coating for milk cartons.
Examples: Squeeze bottles, dry cleaning bags

PP (polypropylene) has high tensile strength, making it ideal for use in caps and lids that have to hold tightly on to threaded openings. Because of its high melting point, polypropylene can be hot-filled with products designed to cool in bottles, including ketchup and syrup. It is also used for products that need to be incubated, such as yogurt. Many Cambo, Tupperware and Rubbermaid food storage containers are made from PP.
Examples: Bottle caps, take-out food containers, drinking straws

PS (polystyrene), in its crystalline form, is a colorless plastic that can be clear and hard. It can also be foamed to provide exceptional insulation properties. Foamed or expanded polystyrene (EPS) is used for products such as meat trays, egg cartons and coffee cups. It is also used for packaging and protecting appliances, electronics and other sensitive products.
Examples: Plastic foam, packing peanuts, coat hangers

Other denotes plastics made from other types of resin or from several resins mixed together. These usually cannot be recycled.

Another important type of plastic is polycarbonate, a clear shatter-resistant material used in restaurant food storage containers and recently in the Rubbermaid Stain Shield line of home food storage containers.

Why do we need different types of plastics, anyway? This excerpt from the American Plastics Council Web site explains it well.

"Copper, silver and aluminum are all metals, yet each has unique properties. You wouldn't make a car out of silver or a beer can out of copper because the properties of these metals are not chemically or physically able to create the most effective final product. Likewise, while plastics are all related, each resin has attributes that make it best suited to a particular application. Plastics make this possible because as a material family they are so versatile."

Not All HDPE Containers Are Food Grade

There is a common misconception that all containers made of white plastic or HDPE plastic bearing the symbol are food grade containers. This is not true.

If you are considering the purchase of a container from some place other than a kitchen or restaurant supply store, and the container is not clearly labeled as "food safe" or being made of food grade plastic, then you should assume that it is not food grade and you should not brine in it-unless you line it with a food grade plastic bag.


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## cjconrad

Thank you for your quick reply! I am leaving for a 2-week business trip to England, so I can't absorb all of this at the moment, but can I assume that you would suggest that the honey is NOT edible after having been stored in this pail for 10 years?

Thanks ...


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## SurvivalNut

Honey is good into eternity, so there is no worry there.

REI uses HDPE #2 for their drinking water bottles.

True, some dyes can reclassify a plastic as non food grade, but also all retaurants use white buckets.

*In my opinion, I would keep the honey for sure. *

I recently changed some of my 20 year old honey into newer buckets. The old ones were scuffed about from moving and storage and one had a cracked lid.

I also taste tested the honey and it was fine.

NOTE: to locate a certified food grade bucket, contact Walton Feed or Emergency Essentials. Swap the buckets and be good for another 10-20 years.


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## bunkerbob

cjconrad said:


> Thank you for your quick reply! I am leaving for a 2-week business trip to England, so I can't absorb all of this at the moment, but can I assume that you would suggest that the honey is NOT edible after having been stored in this pail for 10 years?
> 
> Thanks ...


I was just answering your question on food grade pails. Keep the honey for sure. Some was found in Egypt after a couple of thousand years, crystallized, they heated it up and found it to be palatable.
By the way Home Depot has food grade clear 5 gal buckets in their paint dept., around $5, lids do not however have a rubber seal, I used the gamma seals instead. Do not use the cheaper orange pails, they are not food grade, unless you are going to put items in mylar sealed bags.


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## TechAdmin

I didn't know that about the Egyptians. I wonder what it tasted like. Bob do you have a link for that?


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## bunkerbob

Dean said:


> I didn't know that about the Egyptians. I wonder what it tasted like. Bob do you have a link for that?


You betcha...Honey and Spoilage, I saw a special on beer making once that talked about mead also and the oldest recipe from Mesopotamia, before the Egyptians.:beercheer:


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## TechAdmin

Thank you much sir!


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## UncleJoe

Dean said:


> Bob do you have a link for that?


Bob has a link for everything. :beercheer:


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## bunkerbob

UncleJoe said:


> Bob has a link for everything. :beercheer:


Thanks UncleJoe, I have read so many so many posts and articles on the web with sometimes questionable info. I use Snopes to help occasionally with my info, but I always look it up and try to back up what I have stated. Google is great tool.


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## CVORNurse

UncleJoe said:


> Bob has a link for everything. :beercheer:


And he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night :2thumb:


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## bunkerbob

CVORNurse said:


> And he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night :2thumb:


Can't afford that, more like, He stayed up all night at the Internet Express last night.:2thumb:


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## UncleJoe

CVORNurse said:


> And he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night :2thumb:


Good One!!! :beercheer:


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## westr01

*Wow!*



bunkerbob said:


> I copied this from a brining website...Food Grade Plastic Containers For Brining - The Virtual Weber Bullet
> 
> What Is Plastic?
> 
> Plastic is made from hydrocarbons derived from petroleum or natural gas. The hydrocarbons are formed into chains called polymers, or plastic resins. By combining hydrocarbon molecules in different ways, different types of plastic can be created.
> 
> What Is Food Grade Plastic?
> 
> The U.S. Food & Drug Administration (FDA) requires that plastics used in food packaging be of greater purity than plastics used for non-food packaging. This is commonly referred to as food grade plastic. Plastics used to package pharmaceuticals are held to an even higher standard than food grade.
> 
> Food grade plastic does not contain dyes or recycled plastic deemed harmful to humans. However, this does not mean that food grade plastic cannot contain recycled plastic. The FDA has detailed regulations concerning recycled plastics in food packaging.
> 
> Another aspect of food grade plastic is matching the appropriate type of plastic to the food in question. Foods that are highly acidic or that contain alcohol or fats can leach plastic additives from the packaging or container into the food. As a result, you should only use plastic containers that are FDA approved for the particular type of food the plastic will come into contact with.
> 
> Finally, it should be noted that a plastic container can no longer be considered food grade if it has been used to store non-food items like chemicals, paint, or detergent.
> 
> Types Of Plastic
> 
> In the United States, the following codes represent the seven categories of plastic used in nearly all plastic containers and product packaging:
> 
> PET or PETE (polyethylene terephthalate) is a clear, tough polymer with exceptional gas and moisture barrier properties. PET's ability to contain carbon dioxide (carbonation) makes it ideal for use in soft drink bottles.
> Examples: Soft drink bottles, detergent bottles
> 
> HDPE (high density polyethylene) is used in milk, juice and water containers in order to take advantage of its excellent protective barrier properties. Its chemical resistance properties also make it well suited for items such as containers for household chemicals and detergents. Most five gallon food buckets are made from HDPE.
> Examples: Milk bottles, shopping bags
> 
> Vinyl (polyvinyl chloride, or PVC) provides excellent clarity, puncture resistance and cling. As a film, vinyl can breathe just the right amount, making it ideal for packaging fresh meats that require oxygen to ensure a bright red surface while maintaining an acceptable shelf life.
> Examples: Plastic food wrap, shrink wrap, garden hoses, shoe soles
> 
> LDPE (low density polyethylene) offers clarity and flexibility. It is used to make bottles that require flexibility. To take advantage of its strength and toughness in film form, it is used to produce grocery bags and garbage bags, shrink and stretch film, and coating for milk cartons.
> Examples: Squeeze bottles, dry cleaning bags
> 
> PP (polypropylene) has high tensile strength, making it ideal for use in caps and lids that have to hold tightly on to threaded openings. Because of its high melting point, polypropylene can be hot-filled with products designed to cool in bottles, including ketchup and syrup. It is also used for products that need to be incubated, such as yogurt. Many Cambo, Tupperware and Rubbermaid food storage containers are made from PP.
> Examples: Bottle caps, take-out food containers, drinking straws
> 
> PS (polystyrene), in its crystalline form, is a colorless plastic that can be clear and hard. It can also be foamed to provide exceptional insulation properties. Foamed or expanded polystyrene (EPS) is used for products such as meat trays, egg cartons and coffee cups. It is also used for packaging and protecting appliances, electronics and other sensitive products.
> Examples: Plastic foam, packing peanuts, coat hangers
> 
> Other denotes plastics made from other types of resin or from several resins mixed together. These usually cannot be recycled.
> 
> Another important type of plastic is polycarbonate, a clear shatter-resistant material used in restaurant food storage containers and recently in the Rubbermaid Stain Shield line of home food storage containers.
> 
> Why do we need different types of plastics, anyway? This excerpt from the American Plastics Council Web site explains it well.
> 
> "Copper, silver and aluminum are all metals, yet each has unique properties. You wouldn't make a car out of silver or a beer can out of copper because the properties of these metals are not chemically or physically able to create the most effective final product. Likewise, while plastics are all related, each resin has attributes that make it best suited to a particular application. Plastics make this possible because as a material family they are so versatile."
> 
> Not All HDPE Containers Are Food Grade
> 
> There is a common misconception that all containers made of white plastic or HDPE plastic bearing the symbol are food grade containers. This is not true.
> 
> If you are considering the purchase of a container from some place other than a kitchen or restaurant supply store, and the container is not clearly labeled as "food safe" or being made of food grade plastic, then you should assume that it is not food grade and you should not brine in it-unless you line it with a food grade plastic bag.


Now that is some good "Need to know...information"!


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## twolilfishies

Personally i dont think any plastic is food grade :2thumb:
I think it is something useless and poison made by oil companies that are raping the earth and making millions selling to us stupid humans.
I guess that brings up what containers I would use to store stuff for a long time :scratch
I dont know :congrat:
hahaha
I need to rethink my paranoia i guess :dunno:


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## mrghostwalker

Another option for your food storage/pantry is gallon glass jars. I have bunch that I got from my local elementary school. Just ask the ladies in the cafeteria. They were free and do a nice job. (Sometimes they even have 2 gallons)


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## twolilfishies

Glass is good yes but it shatters quite easily rendering all that was stored to be wrecked and or full of glass...
Metal would be ideal i think but more expensive for SURE!
I have a few metal containers but they are very small... Need to try and find a good price on metal ones and when i do i will post


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## bunkerbob

Some of my oldest food storage is in 6 gallon square metal tins with large round lids, used food grade plastic bags back then for inside. I believe the church, LDS, had them for sale. These are similar to the ones the civil defense biscuits come in.
Try this...5 Gallon Space Saver Square Can - Freund Container & Supply


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## twolilfishies

thanks bob! it is true you are link king,lol


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## 2talltary

*Food Grade Plastics*

HDPE comes in food grade and is FDA and USDA approved. Most likely it is food grade since there was honey in it. Here's a website that will tell you more about HDPE...HDPE and LDPE Polyetheylene Sheet and Rod | Industrial Plastic Supply, Inc.


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## MrSfstk8d

Well I would certainly hope it was FDA food grade from a retail source. Otherwise FDA will be waggling thier ever snooping and fine writing finger thier way, lol.

OK, I've got it. I'll just make hand thrown clay pots from known clean, non-industrial runoff, mountain stream irrigated sources. I'll use a foot treadle wheel. I'll fire them in a dung kiln, totally renewable. For shatter resistance, I'll basket weave or macrame around them once they're cool enough after firing. Then I'll just seal them like the Egyptians of antiquity did.

Voila!!

OK, step one, learn to throw pottery....


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