# Price gouging...Ammo.



## cedarguy (Nov 19, 2012)

2 or 3 times a week I make my ammo hunt rounds at about three different stores in hopes to pick up some ammo just after the trucks make their deliveries. Yesterday I decieded to stop by a ( I would call it a junk store ) but they call it a swap/shop store. They carry a few guns a little ammo and just about anything else that folks drag in to sell to support their whatever habits. I see on the counter 2 boxes of Blazer .22 ammo 550 rnds each so I figure Ill snatch em up and be happily on my way. I picked one up and the price was $49.99. Surly this is a misprint I thought. So I was kinda laughing when I asked the guy behind the counter and NOPE no misprint. He said that is the going price now cause you cant find em anywhere. I just sat it back down shook my head and out the door I went never to return.

Is anyone else seeing these kind of prices yet?


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Yep. That's the going rate for .22 if you can find it. Something is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. Like you, I'm not one of those people.


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## -JohnD- (Sep 16, 2012)

I have see the 550 round boxes go for 60 to 70 dollars.... nuts!!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

_"Price gouging...Ammo."_

If I offer you 100 rounds of 22 LR for one dollar, how many would you take? I'd suspect it would not be too long before the few would purchase all of my 22 inventory.

On the other hand if I sold 100 rounds for $9 I'd bet my inventory would last longer and those that really need them would be making the purchases.

It's call the law of supply and demand...remember High School Econ?


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## cedarguy (Nov 19, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> _"Price gouging...Ammo."_
> 
> If I offer you 100 rounds of 22 LR for one dollar, how many would you take? I'd suspect it would not be too long before the few would purchase all of my 22 inventory.
> 
> ...


Yep, I remember. I can also spot greed when I see it. The sad thing to me is the person that might really need it may not have the extra money in their pocket to pay those inflated prices so other people can capitalize on a bad situation.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Market analysis tells us that every time there is an ammo shortage prices begin to climb, panic buying ensues and then the prices skyrocket as the shelves become empty. Then when things ease up and supply catches up the prices NEVER go back down to where they were before. They will go back down, but the prices we used to enjoy are gone forever. During Obama's first election we had a panic run on guns and ammo, when things normalized prices remained about 10-15% higher than they were before. This time around I expect a solid 20-25% increase over what what the late 2012 norm. And again, people criticized me when I bought 10+ cases of ammo in October/November. The time to buy is when it is readily available, even if the prices are high. I believe there is a term for that... oh yeah prepping.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Oh that evil greed and price gouging. 

The term gouging doesn't even apply here.

I myself have not noticed any price increase at any of the local brick and mortar retailers. I just bought several thousand rounds @ $4/100.

I could part with some if you need them but the price I'd need to part ways with them would probably have me considered greedy or a gouger.


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## cedarguy (Nov 19, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> Oh that evil greed and price gouging.
> 
> The term gouging doesn't even apply here.
> 
> ...


I believe that term applies very well here. Im sure you are not familiar with the store I spoke of but he normally doesnt carry any bulk pack ammo. (above 50 rnd pks) but has managed to get a couple boxes of 550 and cranked the price up. If thats not gouging please explain to me what is.

Luckly I dont need any ammo, like many others I seen this coming and as a prepper..well you know. And if you did as I mentioned above, Your probably right.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

cedarguy said:


> I believe that term applies very well here. Im sure you are not familiar with the store I spoke of but he normally doesnt carry any bulk pack ammo. (above 50 rnd pks) but has managed to get a couple boxes of 550 and cranked the price up. If thats not gouging please explain to me what is.


IMO thee is no such thing as gouging period. If you want to argue that it does exist then it could only apply to things that you_ have_ to have. You don't _have_ to have ammo or you would've already had it.

To imply that someone is gouging without a previous price point to compare it too is even more ridiculous. You have no idea what he had to pay for it. He might be only putting his normal mark up on it.

You sound just like these fools that want to buy hay from us. Bellyaching that they have to pay more in a drought year. 

We sold corn for $8.50 a bushel last year. I suppose that is gouging too.:kiss: :eyebulge:



> Luckly I dont need any ammo


So why the bi/triweekly ammo hunts? 

Maybe you should be labeled a hoarder.


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## cedarguy (Nov 19, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> IMO thee is no such thing as gouging period. If you want to argue that it does exist then it could only apply to things that you_ have_ to have. You don't _have_ to have ammo or you would've already had it.
> 
> To imply that someone is gouging without a previous price point to compare it too is even more ridiculous. You have no idea what he had to pay for it. He might be only putting his normal mark up on it.
> 
> ...


I suppose everybody has an opinion about gouging..to each their own.

As far as my ammo hunts go we like to shoot but that doesnt mean we always want to dip into our preps to do so.


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## SmugWaffle (Mar 26, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> IMO thee is no such thing as gouging period. If you want to argue that it does exist then it could only apply to things that you have to have. You don't have to have ammo or you would've already had it.
> 
> To imply that someone is gouging without a previous price point to compare it too is even more ridiculous. You have no idea what he had to pay for it. He might be only putting his normal mark up on it.
> 
> ...


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_gouging

I would consider some of it price gouging. Maybe the distros. ATK (CCI, Blazer, Speer) only sells to distros. Those distros sell to shops, then the consumer. Large volume outfits (Walmart) may be able to bypass the distros and go straight to ATK, lowering the markup.
Factoid, ATK manufactures 4, 000, 000 22lr DAILY. That's 1 billion 22lr in a year. Add in all the other companies producing worldwide. There's probably 20, 000 bricks made daily just in North America alone. Where's it all going? It's not like NATO shoots 22lr.

Gun/mag prices are certainly gouged. 10/22 BK25 mags straight from from Ruger are $25. I've seen them online at $30-50. I understand a 20% markup, but 50-100% just b/c they're backordered is ludicrous. AR's doubled almost over night.

9mm and 45ACP are at the same pricepoint ( I suspect DHS' order as something to do with that).

I personally will only buy a brick at $25 or cheaper. If it's $30 and Walmart's shelves are full, I guess I'll have to concede.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

cedarguy said:


> I suppose everybody has an opinion about gouging..to each their own.
> 
> As far as my ammo hunts go we like to shoot but that doesnt mean we always want to dip into our preps to do so.


Why not just come out and say you hate supply and demand free markets?


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't consider it price gouging unless it's something that's vital to survival or the well being of the individuals. Gas, food, water, clothing and other necessities would be items that people "must" purchase to survive.

Ammunition isn't something that is a must have item so the consumer has the opportunity to not make the purchase without having to give up essential necessities. 

Potassium Iodate pills were selling on Ebay for $200/20 pills even when nobody in this country had a need for them. Normally these pills go for somewhere around $10/60 pills.

There are no laws against taking advantage of stupid people.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Well I just sold 2 boxes of 50 for $10. I paid about $4,50 with taxes, say throw in gas and I got about double for them. The people were happy to get then. Seeing as how a box of 550 used to be $18-$25 depending on where you went I would say that $49.99 is about what the economy will support. But before you accuse me of anything the person is a work friend buying them for her husband. I said I would sell her one box at my cost so that he could have some in case he really needed them and or for small game season(I honesty expect them to be available before then, but just in case). So I tried to be nice guy but they wanted more so they paid more. Maybe that makes me a jerk but for real that's economics. I also sold them a dehydrator for $10 that I bought for $5. So $20 for a still in package dehydrator (Got it from goodwill) and 2 boxes of .22. That sounds fair to me seeing as how the dehydrator goes for around $40-$50 on amazon. He is some kind of prepper as she told me he gets together with family and they go trough their backpacks comparing what she calls backpacking gear LOL. She said that hes trying to stock the shelves and wanting to put a garden in. I want to be all excited and say yeah I found a prepping group but how excited can I be when they are excited to get 100 rounds of .22? Im still going to look into them and their friends because if I were to combine their group with mine we might have something. I will let you all know. O yeah this was about price gouging, my gun store sold out two weeks ago in 4 hours even with one box per person at $24.99 for 550 federal. They started with at least 100 boxes. At another store a couple days latter they had just got a case of the 50 packs (What I sold the guy) in and were selling them for $1.99. The guy behind me said he didn't like to buy them in small packs and passed. O well I said more for the next guy. About 4 weeks ago I found them at Wallmart for $2.19, used to be $1.99, not too bad of markup.So like some have already said its a matter of where you go.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

labotomi said:


> I don't consider it price gouging unless it's something that's vital to survival or the well being of the individuals. Gas, food, water, clothing and other necessities would be items that people "must" purchase to survive.
> 
> There are no laws against taking advantage of stupid people.


I don't consider it gouging under any circumstances. Let the free market handle it. High prices limit "hoarding". Limited hoarding increase supply. increased supply will bring down prices.

This really hit home during Sandy. Gasoline stations that had the foresight to arrange EXPENSIVE generators and fuel deliveries were forced to sell their fuel at less than it cost them. People were lined up for miles with their cars and every gas can they could scarf up. Had people paid the asking price, they would have gotten as much as they needed, instead of hoarding.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

cedarguy said:


> I believe that term applies very well here. Im sure you are not familiar with the store I spoke of but he normally doesnt carry any bulk pack ammo. (above 50 rnd pks) but has managed to get a couple boxes of 550 and cranked the price up. If thats not gouging please explain to me what is.
> 
> Luckly I dont need any ammo, like many others I seen this coming and as a prepper..well you know. And if you did as I mentioned above, Your probably right.


Last week I found a box of .22LR - 550 rounds - price tag $49.99 - I grabbed it... Why??? Here are the prices I have been seeing online when I can find 550 rd boxes... http://www.jgsales.com/22lr-wolf-match-extra,-500rd-brick.-p-545.html

So, if online is going for $70+, and I find it local for $20 cheaper - KNOWING how rare it is to find it... Yes, I am going to buy it...


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Sign I saw at a garage sale that I believe relates to the OP.

I hunt it
I fine it
I buy it
I haul it
I wash it
I scrub it
I paint it
I fix it
I wrap it
I load it
I pay tax on it
I pay rent on it
It's already 1/2 off
How can I sell it for less?


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

partdeux said:


> I don't consider it gouging under any circumstances. Let the free market handle it. High prices limit "hoarding". Limited hoarding increase supply. increased supply will bring down prices.
> 
> This really hit home during Sandy. Gasoline stations that had the foresight to arrange EXPENSIVE generators and fuel deliveries were forced to sell their fuel at less than it cost them. People were lined up for miles with their cars and every gas can they could scarf up. Had people paid the asking price, they would have gotten as much as they needed, instead of hoarding.


I'd like to know the actual specifics of what you claim since every anti-gouging law I'm aware of states that it does not limit the price passed on due to the rising costs associated with acquisition or distribution.

Selling a product at a loss is not an uncommon practice as it brings in people who buy things that are more profitable. Even when a profit is made from the sale of gasoline, it's usually a few pennies on the dollar. I bet there's more to the situation than you describe.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

invision said:


> Last week I found a box of .22LR - 550 rounds - price tag $49.99 - I grabbed it... Why??? Here are the prices I have been seeing online when I can find 550 rd boxes... http://www.jgsales.com/22lr-wolf-match-extra,-500rd-brick.-p-545.html
> 
> So, if online is going for $70+, and I find it local for $20 cheaper - KNOWING how rare it is to find it... Yes, I am going to buy it...


They're going for $27 here at a local gun shop (2 box limit). Since I go to the gun shop more often than a lot of people I work with, I've picked up a few for them when they ask, but none for myself.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

I'm looking at having to pay .50 a shot for 9mm military surplus ammo. Same for 7.62X39. I won't be able to afford to shoot it at that price, but whats my alternative? I'm not as prepared as I should be, as I just got into prepping recently. I'd rather have the ammo should I need it at .50 a shot then hope that it will go down and make do with my limited supply.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Cabowabo said:


> I'm looking at having to pay .50 a shot for 9mm military surplus ammo. Same for 7.62X39. I won't be able to afford to shoot it at that price, but whats my alternative? I'm not as prepared as I should be, as I just got into prepping recently. I'd rather have the ammo should I need it at .50 a shot then hope that it will go down and make do with my limited supply.


I wish I could answer that. I could use more 9mm and .45 as well, but I have enough that I'm not going to panic.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

labotomi said:


> I wish I could answer that. I could use more 9mm and .45 as well, but I have enough that I'm not going to panic.


I think what my I'm going to do is just buy ammo till I have X thousand rounds per caliber. Then I'll shoot a box or two occasionally. But I'll need a lot more ammo before I feel comfortable going to the range. Sadly I'm betting their is a decent portion of us in that same position.


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## SmugWaffle (Mar 26, 2012)

Cabowabo said:


> I think what my I'm going to do is just buy ammo till I have X thousand rounds per caliber. Then I'll shoot a box or two occasionally. But I'll need a lot more ammo before I feel comfortable going to the range. Sadly I'm betting their is a decent portion of us in that same position.


I'm there. I have:
500rds of target 9mm I bought a week after Sandy Hook.
18 rds of 9mm HP's waiting for a bad guy.
200rds of 22lr for plinking
50 rds of 45ACP for the new 1911 I just bought yesterday.

I don't want to shoot ANY of it until supply/demand returns to normalcy.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

I'm pretty proud of my son he bought a pistol and several boxes
Of ammo from a private seller and he came home with 
Several boxes of the ammo.
Big atta boy on that!


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> Why not just come out and say you hate supply and demand free markets?


We don't have a free market economy. We do have an abundance of idiots though.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

labotomi said:


> I'd like to know the actual specifics of what you claim since every anti-gouging law I'm aware of states that it does not limit the price passed on due to the rising costs associated with acquisition or distribution.
> 
> Selling a product at a loss is not an uncommon practice as it brings in people who buy things that are more profitable. Even when a profit is made from the sale of gasoline, it's usually a few pennies on the dollar. I bet there's more to the situation than you describe.


stick with me for a second here...

gasoline retailer sees the incoming storm and makes arrangement for power and supplies, but has to pay additional funds for those arrangements.

Storm happens, they are the ONLY source of gas... for cars, generators etc. They decide to charge 10x the previous rate, say $30.00 per gallon... i.e gouging according to our liberal members 

People are outraged and severely limit their purchases.

Meanwhile Joe gas station down the street says carp, I'm going to go rent a huge generator and sell gas at $20 per gallon, suddenly doubling the product availability. Meanwhile people are saying I'm only going to buy what I absolutely necessary and limit my gas usage

Fred says, I'm going to go rent a generator and sell gas for $15 per hour... etc etc etc

Market corrects itself on both ends at the same time demand drops off and supply resolves itself.

Hoarding stops, supply increases, free market fixes the problem... except the govt steps in and stay, oh no, you can't take on extra expenses to make a profit, you have to sell at X amount. incentive to take risks goes away, problem takes mucho longer to resolve.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Yes, there is "price gouging" going on. Right now gun and ammo companies are running at maximum capacity. They have had to hire additional personnel. When the market get flooded where does that leave them? Right now people are buying more guns and ammo than they need, when things calm down how much of this surplus will show up on the market. 

For that matter how much is being sold now? I just saw an $800 shotgun being advertised by a private seller for $4,000. How many times have people gone out before a hurricane or other anticipated disaster and made panic purchases of batteries just to return them after the threat passes? 

Look for all prices to go up. Inflation, increased governmental controls, increased taxes, obummercare, increased materials cost, increased labor cost, and a few other things I'm not remembering will drive up cost on everything.

With the very real threat of a full blown depression on the horizon, what do the manufacturers and retailers have to look forward to?

If you didn't have the guns and ammo you wanted before November, do you have the food, tools, clothing, and other supplies? This is an opportunity, not an opportunity to buy ammo but an opportunity to buy many other things while you can. We are never as ready as we want to be. I have never heard anyone say they were done prepping because there was nothing more to do. Don't expect that you will ever have your prepping finished. In the middle of the depression my grandparents were trying to increase their food and cash reserves. Do evaluate your current situation and identify weaknesses.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> We do have an abundance of idiots though.


Ya. That don't understand supply and demand.

Soooooo. What exactly isn't free market about the ammo biz?


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

partdeux said:


> stick with me for a second here...
> 
> gasoline retailer sees the incoming storm and makes arrangement for power and supplies, but has to pay additional funds for those arrangements.
> 
> ...


I wasn't asking for a hypothetical situation. I was asking for the facts of the situation you described earlier.


partdeaux said:


> This really hit home during Sandy. Gasoline stations that had the foresight to arrange EXPENSIVE generators and fuel deliveries were forced to sell their fuel at less than it cost them.


As I said before, every anti gouging law I've read (there's 38 states with them and I haven't read them all) state that extra expenses can be passed along to customers. If the company that bought the generator had extra expenses, he could pass them along to the customers, just as those who rent a generator. The only time the anti gouging laws come into play is when the raising of prices is above a reasonable amount (normally outlined) or justified by the extra expense of providing the product.

I've never seen the government step in and state that you don't have the ability to recoup the cost of your product.

As for the company buying the generator, arranging delivery and having to charge more than customers would tolerate... that was a gamble that took and lost. Bad decisions are common.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

What I have difficulty with is anyone thinking they would have the right to tell someone else what they can charge/ask for a product that THEY own.

Funny thing is is that we have minimum markup laws for gasoline. However they are seldom obeyed.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

FWIW, a town 30 miles south of me has several stores selling bulk 22LR for $109. As if that wasn't bad enough, one of my ammo buddies saw some at the Irving Gun Show last weekend for $249.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Wait a minute guys... There is no law dictating what I can charge for my services... But mine aren't restriction to essentials such as food, clothing, shelter, medicine and equipment needed to preserve life, limb and property. Example, my cost for online backup is 24 cents per GB, I charge between $1.75 to $3.00 per GB, and my smallest client has 1025 GB online... So if I decide to raise it to $5.00/gb - people may or may not pay... There is nothing illegal about me setting my profit margins... Now is the going market in atlanta is what I am charging... But not $5/GB... All it would take for me to lower below $1.75 would be a competitor lowering their cost... That is free market.

Now, I like antiques... I just got a Remington 1873 44-40 with a manufacture date of 1873. It's in a very fine condition... What makes this gun worth $2000 or $3000 or $8000 or $12,000? It is only worth what someone is willing to pay to own it, what is their desire to own it. For the Original poster, .50 a bullet for .22LR is outrageous. For me, it is acceptable and within my acceptable purchase price. Make it $100 for 550, then no, since i have 3,000 rds... but if i had say 550 or 1,000 then i might change my mind depending upon my desire to feel that i have an adequate amount. See what I mean?


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Fifty dollars for a box of 550 .22 LR isn't enough money. If it were $75 a box, maybe I'd sell.


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## SmugWaffle (Mar 26, 2012)

labotomi said:


> I wasn't asking for a hypothetical situation. I was asking for the facts of the situation you described earlier.
> 
> As I said before, every anti gouging law I've read (there's 38 states with them and I haven't read them all) state that extra expenses can be passed along to customers. If the company that bought the generator had extra expenses, he could pass them along to the customers, just as those who rent a generator. The only time the anti gouging laws come into play is when the raising of prices is above a reasonable amount (normally outlined) or justified by the extra expense of providing the product.
> 
> ...


So the big price increase is at the manufactures, and normal or slightly higher markup is applied as the ammo trickles down to the consumer?
I don't see ATK, Hornady, Aguila, Remington, slapping on a 50-100% increase b/c production ramped up. It costs them $X to produce Y rounds. They have no extra costs to recoup except maybe OT pay. 
If ATK produces 4million rounds in a 8hr day, that's 500,000 per payroll hour.
If they produce 6 million rounds in a 12 hour day, that's 428,571 per payroll hour.
That's a 15% reduced profit based on payroll from paying OT. Increased usage of consumables and operations may or may not effect the overall price per round. I'd say 15% is at the high end of manufacting increases.

I see the resellers (distros more-so than shops) increasing their markup b/c of supply/demand. The laws of economics is alive and well in the ammo market.

Maybe the distros got together in a price fixing scheme. :tinfoil:


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

mike_dippert said:


> So the big price increase is at the manufactures, and normal or slightly higher markup is applied as the ammo trickles down to the consumer?
> I don't see ATK, Hornady, Aguila, Remington, slapping on a 50-100% increase b/c production ramped up. It costs them $X to produce Y rounds. They have no extra costs to recoup except maybe OT pay.
> If ATK produces 4million rounds in a 8hr day, that's 500,000 per payroll hour.
> If they produce 6 million rounds in a 12 hour day, that's 428,571 per payroll hour.
> ...


You've totally missed what my comments were in response to and I'm not going to attempt to bring you up to speed.

Next time, try and keep up if you plan on participating.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Why is there a price increase? Was it a drop in the production, a rise in the base ingredients and parts or panic buying? We all know it was the last reason. Fine. The question is touchy because there are 2 thoughts here. First, should I as a seller squeeze every last penny I can because I can? Two, should I keep my prices normal because my costs haven't gone up and when this mania is over I want to keep my customers? Its a tough choice faced by a seller. I for one am done with cheaper than dirt because they chose option 1. Wanna gouge?? Fine. Its legal but don't expect me to still keep shopping with you because I value loyalty from the businesses I support. So in the short term raising prices to a ridiculous level is great but you don't want to lose long term repeat customers either.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

mike_dippert said:


> So the big price increase is at the manufactures, and normal or slightly higher markup is applied as the ammo trickles down to the consumer?
> I don't see ATK, Hornady, Aguila, Remington, slapping on a 50-100% increase b/c production ramped up. It costs them $X to produce Y rounds. They have no extra costs to recoup except maybe OT pay.
> If ATK produces 4million rounds in a 8hr day, that's 500,000 per payroll hour.
> If they produce 6 million rounds in a 12 hour day, that's 428,571 per payroll hour.
> ...


Your forgetting something, there is MUCH more than just "some overtime pay". Look at the entire business model - first yes overtime pay, then you have increased operational costs - water bill, electricity bill, gas bill... Plus - if they are hiring temps - are they using any type of agency? Now look at other things - supplies do they make all parts of the ammo? Casing, bullet, gun powder and primers? Doubtful, so the chain continues out, the gun powder manufactures are now working more to produce - so instead of $10 for the bucket, it is now $11 or $12...

I highly doubt distributors talk to each other, but I am 100% positive the constantly keep track of each others pricing... So if one goes and starts a pricing war buy cutting prices, they all must follow suit.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

mojo4 said:


> Why is there a price increase? Was it a drop in the production, a rise in the base ingredients and parts or panic buying? We all know it was the last reason. Fine. The question is touchy because there are 2 thoughts here. First, should I as a seller squeeze every last penny I can because I can? Two, should I keep my prices normal because my costs haven't gone up and when this mania is over I want to keep my customers? Its a tough choice faced by a seller. I for one am done with cheaper than dirt because they chose option 1. Wanna gouge?? Fine. Its legal but don't expect me to still keep shopping with you because I value loyalty from the businesses I support. So in the short term raising prices to a ridiculous level is great but you don't want to lose long term repeat customers either.


I think the larger stores and sites can get away with it more easier than the small guy... But hell a local gun shop is selling 250 rds of 22LR for $24.99 and 550 rds of same for $49.99

Is it the new norm or is he just making revenue to help with the rainy days ahead???


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## SmugWaffle (Mar 26, 2012)

invision said:


> Your forgetting something, there is MUCH more than just "some overtime pay". Look at the entire business model - first yes overtime pay, then you have increased operational costs - water bill, electricity bill, gas bill... Plus - if they are hiring temps - are they using any type of agency? Now look at other things - supplies do they make all parts of the ammo? Casing, bullet, gun powder and primers? Doubtful, so the chain continues out, the gun powder manufactures are now working more to produce - so instead of $10 for the bucket, it is now $11 or $12...
> 
> I highly doubt distributors talk to each other, but I am 100% positive the constantly keep track of each others pricing... So if one goes and starts a pricing war buy cutting prices, they all must follow suit.


I had a comment specifically about increase in supplies and operational expenses. I highly doubt plant operation costs (excluding payroll) increase by 50% per hour. A kW of power or gallon of water is going to cost the same (or very close). I agree components are subject to price increases the same as complete rounds. There is a snowball effect, but typically the biggest markups come from the resellers.

I agree distros probably aren't in cahoots. That was a sarcastic comment, tone was lost in the internet.


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## SmugWaffle (Mar 26, 2012)

labotomi said:


> As I said before, every anti gouging law I've read (there's 38 states with them and I haven't read them all) state that extra expenses can be passed along to customers. If the company that bought the generator had extra expenses, he could pass them along to the customers, just as those who rent a generator.





labotomi said:


> You've totally missed what my comments were in response to and I'm not going to attempt to bring you up to speed.
> 
> Next time, try and keep up if you plan on participating.


I know you don't think it's gouging, b/c ammo is not a staple of survival in our current social climate.

Based on the first quote:
the companies manufacturing and assembling components are the ones with increased costs.
The resellers should still be applying the same % markup as before. It still translates into increased revenue b/c the prices are higher. I believe the resellers are taking advantage of the situation and increasing their % markup.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

partdeux said:


> I don't consider it gouging under any circumstances. Let the free market handle it. High prices limit "hoarding". Limited hoarding increase supply. increased supply will bring down prices.
> 
> This really hit home during Sandy. Gasoline stations that had the foresight to arrange EXPENSIVE generators and fuel deliveries were forced to sell their fuel at less than it cost them. People were lined up for miles with their cars and every gas can they could scarf up. Had people paid the asking price, they would have gotten as much as they needed, instead of hoarding.


This is the post to which I was referring.



labotomi said:


> I'd like to know the actual specifics of what you claim since every anti-gouging law I'm aware of states that it does not limit the price passed on due to the rising costs associated with acquisition or distribution.


This was my response to the above post. I was requesting info on the government forcing _*GASOLINE*_ to be sold at a fixed, under cost price.



mike_dippert said:


> I know you don't think it's gouging, b/c ammo is not a staple of survival in our current social climate.
> 
> Based on the first quote:
> the companies manufacturing and assembling components are the ones with increased costs.
> The resellers should still be applying the same % markup as before. It still translates into increased revenue b/c the prices are higher. I believe the resellers are taking advantage of the situation and increasing their % markup.


Now you've taken everything and tried to apply it to ammo which isn't close to what my statements addressed. You're disagreeing with my statements even though you don't know what they are. Are you that desperate for an argument?

It has nothing to do with manufacture, distributor, or retailer markup on ammo and certainly doesn't apply to the legal term of price gouging.


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