# If preppers are struggling what of the Sheeple



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If you look at the rising price / loss of availability thread in the last while,and how this effects people who buy on sale and think ahead about what they need. What about the sheeple who wait 'till after work to buy the makings for supper or 'till they have to wipe with one square of paper cause they didn't buy another package. these peo Sheeple have to buy what they need at what ever the price is. are they being forced onto welfare??


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

I've only been buying on sale ( with very few exceptions ) for a long time. It really pays off. Over the last 2 wks we picked up about 100 lbs of pasta at .40$ per pound. My wife thinks I'm nuts but it lasts a long lime and one of the only things my 6 yo eats with us. They had a 12 lb per visit limit, so we went in different lines and hit both of the stores in our area. I told her why buy it next month for $1.40 when we can it this month for $.40? I think she might have understood. Once a month chicken quarters go on sale for $.60 or $.70 a pound and we stock up. The normal price is about a dollar. Toss in some potatoes or rice or beans and you have a meal for the cost of a cup of coffee. 
Normal people think it's normal to piss away money and live deep in debt. I guess that makes us crazy.


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> If you look at the rising price / loss of availability thread in the last while,and how this effects people who buy on sale and think ahead about what they need. What about the sheeple who wait 'till after work to buy the makings for supper or 'till they have to wipe with one square of paper cause they didn't buy another package. these peo Sheeple have to buy what they need at what ever the price is. are they being forced onto welfare??


What welfare? Here in the US?

The states are almost broke.
Food pantries are emptyng at an alarming rate.
Foreclosures are rampant. 
Tent cities are springing up all over.

The sheeple STILL have no inkling of what is going on around them, they are still in la-la land too busy watching TV, movies and other Hollywood distractions to know that the bottom has literally fallen out underneath them. It's just like Wiley Coyote runnin out over the cliff after the Roadrunner... they refuse to look down! Now it's time to fall....

Social security is just about broke.
10,000 baby boomers are retiring daily wanting their money.
Unemployment isn't getting better.
More layoffs on the way, as the second "slide" is starting.
Gasoline will hit $4.00 a gallon again by summer.
Food prices are going thru the roof.

*The waters are rapidly rising!*

Only those who participate in forums like this are likely to survive :wave: :congrat: -_if they are not all hot air with what they write_... (if the shoe fits, wear it).

Those who are out of touch with the *REAL* reality will suffer... No government is big enough to take care of all the people WTSHTF. It will be everyone for themselves... true survival scenario.

:ranton: *Why should I support someone who squandered their money and even went into debt buying "toys" and enjoyment, while I worked my everlovin' butt off, paid cash on the barrel (if I had some) on what I absolutely needed from Goodwill stores and yard sales all my life to get my meager retirement stash (which I put in silver and not in worthless stocks)... I've got enough of that lala-land type in my extended family that I'm gonna have to carry WTSHTF, but they are gonna hafta WORK on this farm to stay alive! THE PARTY IS OVER! * :rantoff:

That is what Alan Ginsburg will have called "a *reality sandwich*" when it happens soon...

- Basey


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

BasecampUSA said:


> *The waters are rapidly rising!*
> 
> Only those who participate in forums like this are likely to survive :wave::congrat: -_if they are not all hot air with what they write_... (if the shoe fits, wear it).
> 
> Those who are out of touch with the *REAL* reality will suffer... No government is big enough to take care of all the people WTSHTF. It will be everyone for themselves... true survival scenario.


Sombody HAD to say it , glad that has been said, I too think that there may be a few that talk the talk but don't walk the walk:congrat:


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## Frugal_Farmers (Dec 13, 2010)

Teh huddled masses will continue to be oblivious to their surroundings. Heck, ask 100 people what they pay for a 5# bag of sugar and see how many bank stares you get. And sugar is just one item. 

Next time you go by your local grocery store, take a hard look and see just how many people are buying their prepackaged meals on credit cards. The numbers are rapidly increasing everyday. Sad, but true.

Let's see what happens when the next credit bubble bursts.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> Sombody HAD to say it , glad that has been said, I too think that there may be a few that talk the talk but don't walk the walk:congrat:


Yep. On another board I frequent (not a prepper board) there have been several SHTF threads started lately. There is a ton of "well, I'll just go to so and so's place". 

I have posted several times that while I love them all dearly that unless they already have a personal invite (because of conversations off the board) they had better not show up at my place expecting anything other than a very cold shoulder. Even suggested that they might want to do some pre-planning themselves because I believe that going out in any kind of difficult time (unless absolutely forced to) is more dangerous than staying home and laying low.

But ... they have it all worked out ... they will just carry their firearms illegally and go to grandma's house. (Honest ... unfortunately, you can't make this stuff up!) :scratch

I have a feeling that should we run into some of the same problems Greece and other countries have experienced that life is gonna get really uncomfortable for a lot of folks.


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

Hehehe... notice how a lot of those wannabe survivalists out there think that when TSHTF, they will simply flip some invisible switch inside their head and go back to being a "pioneer" ? It is almost like they are going to change the channel to "Little House on the Prairie" and walk right into the set and live!

_As far as I know- (cause I lived among them for 2 years without electricity once while I was learning horse farming) - *THE AMISH *will be the only ones who can handle THAT kind of change... but they won't raise a hand to defend themselves WTSHTF. I fear for those gentle wonderful peoples._

You read about all the preppers who blow all thier money on guns and ammo, cause they are gonna hunt and fish to survive... yeah, them and 100,000,000 other hungry American men-of-the-family, who will shoot 'n hook everything that hops, runs, flies, slithers and swims into extinction within a few weeks! GET REAL!

We homesteaders, _the true preppers _have got it together by thinking wayyy ahead to plan food and supplies storage to tide us over the "hump", while we begin total self-sufficiency and mutual barter as well as cooperation amongst ourselves.

The future will be a very "local" economy, as transportation gets expensive or breaks down. Even ex communist run-down Bulgaria has a better railroad system than we do, --we were too busy having fun in Lala-land to pay attention to our infrastructure. Now everything is falling apart and we don't have enough money to fix it.

But, a lot of people are just starting to wake up... too late?

That's why for the last few years, I've spread the words (in red below) around as many forums as I can:


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> Sombody HAD to say it , glad that has been said, I too think that there may be a few that talk the talk but don't walk the walk:congrat:


As there are different levels of being prepped, I will say that knowing what to do and doing what needs to be done are two different things. Not everyone on this board has had 5 decades (or more) to prepare for the worst that can happen - it is impossible to have five decades of preparations at-the-ready when they haven't even reached their second decade yet (yes, I am talking about some of our teenagers on the board).

Life-circumstances are not the same for all of us, we need to work together to build-up our forum members and to keep encouraging them to continue on with the plans as time and money allow.


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

I don't think there is a single one of us who "prep" who have not talked to family and friends or tried to share tips with anyone who asks, some even blog and go above and beyond trying to wake people up. At some point you have to realize that "_you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink_". I have a clear conscience, as do many here. We've talked and given all a chance to get on board. Heck, even FEMA and the government have ads and programs all over the place warning people EVERYWHERE to be prepared. It is not our fault if they haven't listened. They all have FREE choice, free will and access to the knowledge.

Yeah, it's sad that some will suffer needlessly. Yeah it's even sadder that kids will go hunrgy. But you can't save everyone. Our society has given and given and in the process, created generations of lazy, oblivious people. WE woke up, WE prepared. THEY have the same options. Anyone who thinks they will just trot on up to our place will be met with a load of birdshot if they don't trun around and leave. While that sounds harsh to some, I'll take MY life and my family's life over someone who was too self absorbed and lazy to do what we did...prepare.

As for thinking they will just plant seeds and grow a garden, just pick up a gun and they will hunt...lots of luck to them. WE have spent years learning skills and practicing. THEY had every chance to do the same, but the new SUV, McMansion,expensive ball games, pricey gadgets, Save the Whales and other things came first to them. i do not feel one bit sorry.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> As there are different levels of being prepped, I will say that knowing what to do and doing what needs to be done are two different things. Not everyone on this board has had 5 decades (or more) to prepare for the worst that can happen - it is impossible to have five decades of preparations at-the-ready when they haven't even reached their second decade yet (yes, I am talking about some of our teenagers on the board).
> 
> Life-circumstances are not the same for all of us, we need to work together to build-up our forum members and to keep encouraging them to continue on with the plans as time and money allow.


NaeKid, I like your philosophy, but I sure don't know how to accomplish any of it, much less without hanging out a sign saying, "When TSHITF" come to _________'s house.

I groaned when BaseCamp said about people saying they'll hunt and fish because just as he might hear that often where he lives, so do we. We live in an area with lots of "cabin people" from the cities. Ya know where they're gonna go -- completely unprepared when TSHTF???? Here.

And when I subtlely mention to someone about "putting a little stuff back in case things get tough", almost invariably, they'll look at me and respond with some condescending babble as one would respond to a small child. But every time I do that, I'm risking those idiots remembering my comment then pounding on my door when they are cold and starving and terrified.

So, I agree with you in theory, but I must say I am increasing embittered with the blind frigging stupidity I see with 99% of them out there -- including most of my extended family.

Mention it online anonymously -- fine. But in person? Very, very cautiously.


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

horseman09 said:


> Mention it online anonymously -- fine. But in person? Very, very cautiously.


That's it in a nutshell!

I never talk about it around my region, and my compound is off-limits to all but my family and a very few others...

I used to run several survival threads in different forums. They always said I should start a "homesteading survival school". No thanks. Not here at this compound anyway.

I taught wilderness survival for Outward Bound and Vision Quest back in the early 70's... same attitude but different circumstances now. 
You can pretty much tell just WHO will make it and who will not by reading the posts in all these kind of forums!

But teaching always reminded me of the Zen master who wouldn't pour tea in the student's cup with the pot. 
When asked why he wouldn't pour it, the master said "your cup is already full"... -(go figure!)

There's a lot of people out there with books and ideas, but they haven't hands-on-self-sufficient _homesteaded_ for the last 35 years! It is damn hard work... just read the _Nearing's books _ if you don't believe it! That's the only way to success. The hoe is NOT a magic wand!

OK, I'll admit, _we only achieved 85% self sufficiency last year _here on the farm. Busted our everlovin' butts gardening and canning, freezing and drying! We had an acre of dry beans (pintos) that will last 2-3 years. If I couldn't do it with a tractor, it would have been <50%. Next year will be a real bear! We've got over one test-acre of wheat to harvest BY HAND end of June. That will boost our self-sufficiency to 95%.

WTSHTF, I'll have 16 hungry mouths to feed - nephews and nieces with small kids!
They scare the sh*t out of me, because thier heads are plum full of Hollywood and text-messages, 
-and if you set a bag of pintos and a sack of flour on the table in front of them, _THEY'LL STARVE to death _staring at it!

Some of them will have to learn to WORK for the first time in thier lives... nobody is gonna pull for them! No welfare, no handouts, WORK!

- Basey


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> As there are different levels of being prepped, I will say that knowing what to do and doing what needs to be done are two different things. Not everyone on this board has had 5 decades (or more) to prepare for the worst that can happen - it is impossible to have five decades of preparations at-the-ready when they haven't even reached their second decade yet (yes, I am talking about some of our teenagers on the board).
> 
> Life-circumstances are not the same for all of us, we need to work together to build-up our forum members and to keep encouraging them to continue on with the plans as time and money allow.


Sorry if it sounded like I was picking on the young or new preppers, because I definatly was NOT, my thoughs were more toward some of those who think that they already know everything and like to poke at people. Having said that most of those have seemed to have stopped posting. I feel /think that the most important thing a prepper can do is really take what other people say into consideration and research it if nessicary, but don't just dissmiss it cause you think you know better.Just simple things like bringing enough clothes with you to be able to stay comfortable outside even if you drive you car from your heated garage to a heated underground parking lot.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

horseman09 said:


> NaeKid, I like your philosophy, but I sure don't know how to accomplish any of it, much less without hanging out a sign saying, "When TSHITF" come to _________'s house.
> 
> I groaned when BaseCamp said about people saying they'll hunt and fish because just as he might hear that often where he lives, so do we. We live in an area with lots of "cabin people" from the cities. Ya know where they're gonna go -- completely unprepared when TSHTF???? Here.
> 
> ...


My experience, next door neighbor...just over yapping about something ..whatever...and supplies, food, storing topic came up...summer of 2009...and after advising to prep---are you ready for this??

He said he'd go to the church with a membership less than 40.....and I said, ya know, you are not part of the solution, you ARE the problem!!!:scratch

Then one day his daughter told me both her grandmas stored food..one was warned by her son in the military..go figure!!:sssh:


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

JayJay said:


> He said he'd go to the church with a membership less than 40.....and I said, ya know, you are not part of the solution, you ARE the problem!!!:scratch


Exactly! I just got finished watching The History Channel's show called "After Armageddon" on youtube and there will be a lot of people after an emergency situation that will amplify problems because they assumed there would be somewhere to go to afterwards or that the government will rescue them. Once reality starts to kick in, they will be competing with each other for food and resources.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

As someone relatively new to the prepper scene, I can say for sure that with what we have put back right now, if things really tanked, we'd be up the creek before all that long. We've adopted the philosophy (presented to me for the first time by this forum) of buying 2 when you only need one. Need deodorant? Buy 2, then you have some put back. Same for canned goods and other supplies. We have to be very careful with our spending as my wife does not work so she can stay home with our 2 year old son. He's a healthy, happy, energetic farm kid. She does work the farm and she's become quite a gardener and is learning how to can food by leaps and bounds. We are awake, we see what's coming, we just can't "get there" overnight, or even in one or two years. We both have a few guns, we both have CC permits, and we have over 200 acres that we call home. We've pared down our expenses by hanging onto our vehicles for years after paying them off, by buying clothes at thrift shops, by heating with wood, and by using coupons and buying on sale.

In short: I'm new at this, I have a long way to go, but I know that I don't know it all and I feel that that in itself is a huge advantage that my family has over the Sheeple. I feel that as long as we do something, no matter how small, every day to make us more prepared, we are doing all we can and we just hope the S doesn't HTF for a while so we can be more ready when (not if)it does. I posted in another thread a while ago that we aren't as "serious" about prepping as others, but now we're taking things quite seriously, reading, learning new skills, and above all, LEARNING.

I just wanted to share the perspective of one new prepper to let you old timers know that we're still here, not offended (or intimidated) by you, still humble, still learning, and are doing everything we can to some day become old timers ourselves.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Hey Jason. You're one of us.  

I think I'm pretty safe in saying that none of us are totally prepared, but like you, we try as best we can.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Yeah, seriously. 
We've only been at this for going on 4 years now and while we are way ahead of the masses, we're way behind in what will probably be necessary.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Between all of us, we MIGHT be ready. The key is to learn from one another, feed off of each other's energy and enthusiasm, and stay focused, but not wear blinders. This has almost become a hobby for me-seeing what I can do with something I'd normally throw away, seeing how cheaply we can get the week's supplies, etc.

One of my favorite sayings: Keep your head in the clouds but both feet on the ground.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

I keep trying to tell the family that we should just tell people that we drained the pond, removed ALL of the fish & now it's just a swiimin' hole... I feel kind of dirty thinking that way, but I'm afraid if I didn't start that little rumor we'd be invaded!  

I never ever feel that we're ready, I hope the head start we have is enough to make a difference.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> As there are different levels of being prepped, I will say that knowing what to do and doing what needs to be done are two different things. Not everyone on this board has had 5 decades (or more) to prepare for the worst that can happen - it is impossible to have five decades of preparations at-the-ready when they haven't even reached their second decade yet (yes, I am talking about some of our teenagers on the board).
> Life-circumstances are not the same for all of us, we need to work together to build-up our forum members and to keep encouraging them to continue on with the plans as time and money allow.


Thanks for your excellent point, NaeKid. It's really gotten me to thinking.

First, my hat is off to any teenagers on the forum! :congrat:

Second, we are all products of our environment. Whatever our environment is, that's what we perceive as 'normal.' So really, with all the dependency (both overt and subtle), all the short-sightedness, all the 'grasshopper-living' in our culture - with all that it's truly a wonder that ANYONE becomes a prepper. Thank God people do. I know that on this site I am a rookie and have very little to offer - but ironically, to everyone else I know, I am literally a prepping expert. I imagine other rookies on this site share that same strange dichotomy.

But I don't think any of the established preppers here complain about the rookies on this site. I believe they feel a frustration (to put it nicely) with folks in their life who could prep (and have been exposed to prepping), but are simply too lazy to do so and believe that they will be bailed out. Or they're pissed with those who are condescending about prepping. But as a rookie, I've never felt that their frustration (or sheeple bashing) was directed at me. I wouldn't think that the teenagers on this site would take it personally, either.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> Yeah, seriously.
> We've only been at this for going on 4 years now and while we are way ahead of the masses, we're way behind in what will probably be necessary.


This is us too ... Hubby gets into the "security" (read: guns and ammo) and "roughing it" (read: camping and hunting) side of preparing (as is to be expected with him being a JBT and all) but it became apparent to me a couple of years ago that if I didn't get more involved I was gonna be reduced to eating a steady diet of MREs if anything went sideways.

I'm sorry but this woman does not live on MREs alone ... 

Besides ... prepping actually encompasses a lot of things I do for fun ... gardening, knitting, baking, crocheting, shooting, sewing, pets (OK ... I know a lot of people frown when I say this but I was raised in the country where it is not uncommon to eat your "pet" chicken, steer, lamb, etc. ).

I have seen a lot of good signs lately ... the state and federal gov'ts are encouraging people to be prepared (Oklahoma has a "Red Dirt Ready" program"), there is a lot of air time being devoted to preparedness on main stream tv and radio ...

There will always be those who blunder blissfully through life (I have to admit that up until a very short time ago I was one of those folks). In all honesty, though, they are not the people I worry about. The ones I worry about are the ones who, like us, see a need to prepare but state openly that as long as they have guns and ammunition they can take whatever else they might need or want later ...

Or the ones who want to "throw in with you" going to great lengths to convince you of their superior knowledge, supplies, land, contacts, etc. (only to find later that they have absolutely NOTHING).

If I can help you I will gladly do so, but don't think that I owe you or that you can TAKE it from me ...


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

BadgeBunny said:


> Or the ones who want to "throw in with you"


I've seen a lot of this here on the board. Someone will sign up and with their first post you can sense the panic and dismay. They have probably been lurking for awhile and reading about what members are doing, how far they've come and what they're goals are. Now they want to make personal contact with someone right away. When one of us suggest they slow down, take a breath, and read some more, more often than not, they disappear.

*And now a word for all you folks out who are out there in the shadows. 
There is nothing wrong with lurking. If you are learning something from us, great, you'll be miles/km ahead of the masses. There are quite a few of us that have had face to face meetings because we've known and become comfortable with each other over a period of time. But you shouldn't expect one of us to open up and say; "sure, come on over, I'll take care of you". We do this to better prepare our families for whatever may come down the road. If you want to personally meet like-minded folks, you'll need to expose yourself to the membership, allow us to get to know you and see where it goes. Like any relationship, trust is the key. It's hard to trust someone you know nothing about.*


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> I've seen a lot of this here on the board. Someone will sign up and with their first post you can sense the panic and dismay. They have probably been lurking for awhile and reading about what members are doing, how far they've come and what they're goals are. Now they want to make personal contact with someone right away. When one of us suggest they slow down, take a breath, and read some more, more often than not, they disappear.
> 
> *And now a word for all you folks out who are out there in the shadows.
> There is nothing wrong with lurking. If you are learning something from us, great, you'll be miles/km ahead of the masses. There are quite a few of us that have had face to face meetings because we've known and become comfortable with each other over a period of time. But you shouldn't expect one of us to open up and say; "sure, come on over, I'll take care of you". We do this to better prepare our families for whatever may come down the road. If you want to personally meet like-minded folks, you'll need to expose yourself to the membership, allow us to get to know you and see where it goes. Like any relationship, trust is the key. It's hard to trust someone you know nothing about.*


That (the part in bold) sounds like it needs to be a before you post reading requirement


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> I've seen a lot of this here on the board. Someone will sign up and with their first post you can sense the panic and dismay. They have probably been lurking for awhile and reading about what members are doing, how far they've come and what they're goals are. Now they want to make personal contact with someone right away. When one of us suggest they slow down, take a breath, and read some more, more often than not, they disappear.
> 
> *And now a word for all you folks out who are out there in the shadows.
> There is nothing wrong with lurking. If you are learning something from us, great, you'll be miles/km ahead of the masses. There are quite a few of us that have had face to face meetings because we've known and become comfortable with each other over a period of time. But you shouldn't expect one of us to open up and say; "sure, come on over, I'll take care of you". We do this to better prepare our families for whatever may come down the road. If you want to personally meet like-minded folks, you'll need to expose yourself to the membership, allow us to get to know you and see where it goes. Like any relationship, trust is the key. It's hard to trust someone you know nothing about.*


Oh ... I wasn't talking about newbies or lurkers... I was talking about people who believe themselves to be "top notch survivalists" and will befriend you by e-mail or PM extolling their virtues ... To a man they have been nothing but trouble and there are a TON of them here in Oklahoma. These guys lurk at the bigger boards, always posting fictional works in the "stories forums" and not much else, unless they see a place to do a little fanciful extrapolation on something someone else has already said.

The hubby and I have tried the "group" thing at a couple of different boards -- both of which you are all familiar with even if you haven't joined them. All talk and no walk for the most part -- and God help you if you have a different opinion than the "leader of the pack" or don't suffer fools (of which there are many) well. They only want to talk about guns, ammo and security measures while the women cook. And God help you if you are a woman and can shoot or field strip a gun better than they can. 

Those guys will tell you, to the man, that I am the problem. That I don't know my place. That I have "nothing to bring to the table". And they are right, of course. I am the problem. I expect everyone, TO THE MAN, to carry their own weight. And I don't mind calling you on it if your butt warms the chair a little too much or your mouth overloads your butt while it is holding down that chair. :dunno:

One of these days I am gonna write a book about my summer as a "hard core survivalist" ... It was definitely an adventure.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

UncleJoe said:


> *And now a word for all you folks out who are out there in the shadows.
> There is nothing wrong with lurking. If you are learning something from us, great, you'll be miles/km ahead of the masses. There are quite a few of us that have had face to face meetings because we've known and become comfortable with each other over a period of time. But you shouldn't expect one of us to open up and say; "sure, come on over, I'll take care of you". We do this to better prepare our families for whatever may come down the road. If you want to personally meet like-minded folks, you'll need to expose yourself to the membership, allow us to get to know you and see where it goes. Like any relationship, trust is the key. It's hard to trust someone you know nothing about.*


That's awesome!

Added to the Forum FAQ thread!!


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## catsraven (Jan 25, 2010)

BadgeBunny it never ceases to amaze me how much most men (not all men) will underestimate a woman. I just laugh and move on. No point in trying to get them to see that I can do what they can. I can hunt, I can fish, I can field dress any animal and butcher it. And no I dont need you to pick up that 50# sack. You can, however help me put the feed away. Most women will ask for help if they need it. 

Back to the thread after i derailed it. I am not a top notch survivalists. Nor will I ever be. There is so much to learn and not enough time to do it all. I dont believe anyone can be. There is to much. Learn,Learn, Learn as much as you can. Get organized, make lists. I have lists I haven't even touched yet :sssh: Just get off your duff and do something. And no you cant come to my house!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I seriously wonder about male who don't respect females, women tend to be stronger pound for pound, have a higher pain tolerance (you doubt this try having a baby ,I think anyway) don't tend to take stupid risks , except sometimes when choosing mates, If you can't stand to be bettered be the best don't try to keep others down by belittleing.:scratch


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## AnimalcrackerHerder (Dec 27, 2010)

My wife is the backbone of our family. Without her there would be no surviving. She has the skills to organize and prepare for what we will have to stock up on and grow if TSHTF. We are a team and I really doubt if I would make it on my own. We will be as prepared as we can, and we don't include stealing from others in those plans. I really want to believe that our morel standards would not break down just because society did.


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## carolexan (Dec 28, 2010)

I get "well what if something never happens" and my answer is"but what if it does". 

If you talk the talk than you better walk the walk! All the preps in the world won't save you if you dont know how to use them. I know it's hard to think your future will be in a different world or that you cant plan for a better life down the road. I encourage everyone to plan for a future and enjoy every day worry free but it's unrealistic not to consider the "what ifs in life." I don't live to prep, I prep to live. There have been times financially that we have lived off our preps in everyday life, not to mention bad weather etc.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Our fire hall is made up (in part) of 3 married couples and one engaged couple. The women carry hoses, drive the big trucks, and drag themselves out of bed in the cold at 3AM just like us guys and we make no secret that we think it's cool as heck to be a half female firefighting force.

Joe, your bold type statement above was spot-on.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I get "well what if something never happens" and my answer is"but what if it does". 

Not good enough....try this!!!

Well, I'm 60, husband 62; I've never known food, cooking supplies, kitchen supplies, tools, medical supplies, clothes, laundry det, bath tissue, toothpaste, health and beauty aids, propane, kerosene and anything else to drop in price...have you??:dunno:

Then in the future, we're gonna have cheap goodies when you're paying the doubled or tripled prices at the hardware and grocery!!!


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

Right-on Jayjay!

It don't pay to have a lot of extra paper-money on hand right now...

Put in in supplies that you can use in the future, that are cheaper right now than they will be at the end of this year (9-14% inflation average overall? - not including fuel)

Keep enough to pay the bills and incidentals, and put the rest in silver.

I am very glad I put half of our life savings in silver... I tripled my money in 2 years... no banks or the stock market has touched that record! Paper money will be a disaster by the end of the year... the Gummint may devalue it, or they will surprise us with a new currency intead, to avert a civil war if they try to devalue it... how about the Amero, or something?


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## wildman800 (Oct 17, 2008)

My wife is the glue that holds everything together. No, we are not at the level of preparedness that we'd like. We will NEVER be able to get to that "comfort level" because of medical issues in the family.

We will be in the best shape overall irt debt, supplies, planning, and in responding. I started making preps in 1994 and my wife, her family, my kids, and my family all believed that I had gone off the deep end.

As of last year, all of my family members have stopped thinking I was crazy since about 2001 (Hurricane Lilly) and 2005 (Katrina and Rita) . My generator and stored gasoline, and other supplies made life much easier in the aftermath while everything was being put back together again. My wife has finally learned that "it's NOT just money" and has started learning everyway that she can to stretch every penny, paying our debt down, and putting a reasonable emergency $$$ stash to the side.

We are still adding to our preps on a steady, slow pace that prevents block obsolescence. We are now starting to revise our plans as the near future is becoming clearer and what those affects will most likely be. We'll probably be revising our plans again within the next 6 months.


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## BizzyB (Dec 10, 2010)

> and God help you if you have a different opinion than the "leader of the pack" or don't suffer fools (of which there are many) well. They only want to talk about guns, ammo and security measures while the women cook.


Omigoodness you are so on the money with this. :gaah: I'm convinced those so-called "leaders" spend their days playing Call of Duty and nurturing unrequited, puerile fantasies of being THE BIG BOSS. They talk of the Army manuals they know chapter and verse: Survival! SERE!! Patrols!! Perimeters!! Shoot 'em all when TSHTF!!! Yet they conveniently overlook FM 6-22. Command is a sacred trust. And anyone nurturing grudges or resentment over not getting to be the man-in-charge back in the service (or even just everyday life) is not worthy of trust. Command is a :bullit::bullit::bullit::bullit: of a lot more than prior service and a Y-chromosome. So they can take all that hot air and use it to keep their little green Army ponchos warm.

In my household, we're exactly one deep on many essential skills. Therefore anyone sheltering with us has to live with my one rule: everyone learns all skills, everyone does all tasks. Gardening, cooking, firemaking, hunting, housekeeping, tool sharpening, canning, even knitting/crochet/spinning. Men, women, children, and Mr.B, too. My "job" during times of hardship is not cooking and scrubbing out 5-gallon toilets for the men-folk, but ensuring the family members who shelter with us learn what they need to learn to live. (Insert righteous-ragey, profanity-ridden rant here :rant:.)

Sorry about the hijack. I really don't know how people are making ends meet when there is so little home-ec proficiency out there. Other than mountains of debt and empty calories.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

The problem with the struggling "anti-preppers" is they have no insight, and no drive, and have people like us to come "squat" on to make their lives easier.

I have 5 children and constantly have one or two complete with grandkids come park at my house when they get in trouble. This takes precious assets to support them that should be going to preparations. I have had one who understands the need to prep, keep on doing it while the other has just lost interest. Though my husband and myself know what we need to do, we are being drained of funds to do what we need.

Catsraven,
I love what you said about the 50# bags. When my husband used to drive coast to coast, it was when his hours were seriously long before the shit down and skyrocketing fuel costs. He came home for a few days and one was my feed run day. He comes out of the house and sees me packing bags inside, 850lbs of bags. He promptly throws a fit and fusses at me about 'why didn't you come get me; you shouldn't be doing that!" I stand there astounded! I then respond to him," Just who do you think brings these bags in when you are gone driving? The Feed Fairy?" He had this great blank look on his face, and then had the decency to blush and look ashamed. It just didn't register in his head what I had to do when he was gone.

The family that does not prep, try this one them, as I believe I've won at least one daughter over to prepping with it. On YouTube there is an episode of Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory on "2012" and the "HAARP" facility that gets past all the hype, and into the facts and science of both. Then add in the movie "The Core" with information about all the bird and fish die offs that are currently in progress. It is sort of a "backdoor" into their heads, but at least they start LOOKING for the information and begin to think of the "what ifs."

I am very glad to have started the seed of unrest in her head. She lives about 100 miles away, but between us is a huge mountain canyon and a river that she would be hard pressed to bring get 4 children across to make it to me depending on an geological disaster taking out the connecting bridges.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but I leave nothing out of the possible equation. If it works to get their heads out of the sand, I'm going to use it.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

dawnwinds58 said:


> The problem with the struggling "anti-preppers" is they have no insight, and no drive, and have people like us to come "squat" on to make their lives easier.
> 
> I. . .we are being drained of funds to do what we need.
> 
> Yeah, yeah, I know, but I leave nothing out of the possible equation. If it works to get their heads out of the sand, I'm going to use it.


Good for you.

However, the progressives have been slowly conditioning our society - via welfare, bailouts, gov handouts, unemployment compensation extensions, etc. etc. etc. - to rely, indeed expect the government to "take care" of any problems. Hence it follows the sheeple expect someone else to take care of them. The progressives have us where they need us - well some of us. the non-preppers.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

JayJay said:


> I get "well what if something never happens" and my answer is"but what if it does".
> 
> Not good enough....try this!!!
> 
> ...


:2thumb:

IMHO prepping is not only or necessarily for a natural disaster, riots, or anything necessarily that dramatic. It is preparing for the future. Future inflation, future job loss, future illness, fill in your personal fear/weakness.

Like you say, prices Never, ever go down. So, at least for the short term you have cheap goods, until you have to restock. But definitely have enough stores for those rough times or shortages.

::soapbox1:


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

I have given up getting a lot of nice new expensive "toys" that I would like to own to increase my preps (like purchasing another year's supply of freeze-dried food and other such necessities). I figured it out than when the sheeple all die out because they couldn't read the handwriting on the wall and prepare for the inevitable I will be able to pick up all of those nice new expensive "toys" for free; they will be laying around all over the place. :2thumb:


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> I have given up getting a lot of nice new expensive "toys" . . . . I will be able to pick up all of those nice new expensive "toys" for free; they will be laying around all over the place. :2thumb:


Good Luck with that. 

I don't really think you need a lot of "toys" per se. If you use what you store you're good to go. JMHO


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

The best thing to do after casually mentioning prepping for bad times is clam up. The more you talk about the necessity the more they will remember you when TSHTF. I was just thinking yesterday, after trying to get one of my co-workers to stop texting and help with a client, anyone who wants to bring this nation to it's knees, need only to destroy the tech world most of the people live in. Disable the internet, kill cell phones and we would have a nation of babbling idiots. They would be unable to handle it. What do you mean I have to talk to someone face to face? JMHO


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

Elinor 0987,
I just watched that YouTube program you mentioned from the History Channel, "After Armageddon." Nice portrayal of some of the issues. If anyone is interested, check it out:






One thing in it bugged the fire out of me though. Sorry to give some of the story to those who want to watch it, but I will be as vague as necessary, which is if you ask my husband, something I do fairly well. :sssh:

When one becomes self-sufficient...
ALL MEDICAL ISSUES MUST BE CONSIDERED!!!!!!!
The simplest of injuries, skin breaks, cuts and punctures become a primary concern. Limiting and handling potential and actual infections are mandatory or your labor force, which is the engine that powers food production, will be just as decimated as if bomb had been dropped. The infection in question should have been treated ASAP.

Though modern antibacterials will be gone, herbal medicines still existed and should have been grown along with food sources.

Strong dark honey besides being a source of necessary calories for survival, is a disinfectant and the bees keep your food sources pollinated,cooking sage and echinacea both have antibacterial qualities and echinacea aka purple coneflower, (echinacea angustaflolia variety specifically) steps into the antiviral category. NOTE: This species requires extreme chilling to germinate and the seeds need to go through freeze thaw cycles for 90 days minimum to sprout. I just pack it in a watertight container and leave the seeds under the porch. I've used it to cure bronchitis that drags on and keeps going for close to 10 years. Oatmeal moistened lightly and used as a poultice can draw out infection from a punture would or deep injury. Hell old nasty strong Listerine STARTED as a battle field disinfectant well before "oral hygiene" existed. Strong soap can still be made from homemade lye and pork lard.

WARNING: IF you decide to try your hand at lye soap, treat lye like nuclear waste, it is an extremely strong acid that burns, blisters, and can eat flesh. Used in proper dilution it can make soap gentle enough for faces and babies, or a caustic strong enough to clean drains and metals, AND it IS the main component of drain cleaners. DO NOT handle it unless you treat it with proper respect and safety measures.

The "sheeple" won't know any of the above information. After the removal of the weakest, it becomes the careless' turn at removal. Self protection is as important as preparation. An injury you wouldn't have thought twice about, will now be a life threatening issue, right down to an infected blister from a worn shoe matched with a wrinkled and dirty sock.

You have to think not just "outside the box," but be ready to have to build a different style of "box" and forget the old one completely.


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## twiggie (Jan 3, 2009)

Don't be so quick to judge someone who might step up, organize, and lead as a Bear Grylls disciple that thinks they can run off into the wilderness and eat anything they come across, or shoot anything that moves. 
I've got experience in survival skills, not as much as I'd prefer, but I'm always trying to learn more and use more knowledge. As much as I can that is. My, um, heterosexual life partner (since we don't intend to complicate our relationship with vows and legal certificates) and I are saving back as much as we can to hopefully own, sometime in the near future, a nice piece of land to homestead. 
I fully intend to take control of the situation when it becomes necessary to make sure my local extended family can take care of ourselves. My parents, my woman and her tot, a few good friends that I know will pull their weight, and my city dwelling brother if he can make it out, plan on bugging in and attempting to expand the garden and livestock to make sure we make it through. 
Strong men need a stronger woman to keep us in check. As much as I hate to admit it for my gender's sake. I've met a woman and been with her for quite a while that has more fortitude and resolve than most anyone I've ever met. People like her and most of us on this discussion board are the ones that are going to be able to make it, no matter what we have to face.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> I have given up getting a lot of nice new expensive "toys" that I would like to own to increase my preps (like purchasing another year's supply of freeze-dried food and other such necessities). I figured it out than when the sheeple all die out because they couldn't read the handwriting on the wall and prepare for the inevitable I will be able to pick up all of those nice new expensive "toys" for free; they will be laying around all over the place. :2thumb:


Oh, yeah...so in that case, I do miss my pool from the Tennessee house, so I'll stock up on pool shock!!! Sure to get to use the over-sized hot tub my neighbors call a pool:nuts:..

You know, the ones who didn't read the writing on the wall and make fun of me??:ignore:
the one who lives from month to month on that "kaliforney' pension check??

And as a side note, please don't assume my husband and I are any more financially secure than said neighbor---we're not---the difference is...WE KNOW IT AND ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

dawnwinds58 said:


> Elinor 0987,
> I just watched that YouTube program you mentioned from the History Channel, "After Armageddon." Nice portrayal of some of the issues. If anyone is interested, check it out:
> 
> YouTube - History Channel, After Armageddon .. 1/9
> ...


And a little off topic here, but consider the death of all humans and animals we can't feed...where do we dispose of these to prevent disease spreading due to decay??:gaah: 
That is one thing I fret about---did the program address that??
I watched a program about armageddon and what happens after, but not sure it was the above.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

UncleJoe said:


> We've only been at this for going on 4 years now and while we are way ahead of the masses, we're way behind in what will probably be necessary.


There are a lot of us in that boat! I KNOW that I am not going to be able to be self-sufficient forever if something happens tomorrow. Heck, I'd be a fool to think I could survive much longer than my stored supplies hold out. So, I try and build my stores up to last as long as I can.

I have a garden but realize that it would never be able to produce enough, or me have the capabilities, to put up enough to eat for an entire year. Sure, I'd like to build up to that point but for now and in the foreseeable future, it ain't gona happen. Right now I feel comfortable I could survive for a year on what I have, and what I can grow. I add to my supplies as I am able. I know others are able to go for much longer but a majority of the population is only going to last for as long as there is a McDonalds open.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

dawnwinds58 said:


> Elinor 0987,
> I just watched that YouTube program you mentioned from the History Channel, "After Armageddon." Nice portrayal of some of the issues. If anyone is interested, check it out:
> 
> YouTube - History Channel, After Armageddon .. 1/9


Thanks for posting the link to the video. Since I don't have cable tv, I have to rely on the internet to see shows from the History and Discovery channels. I was actually going to make a separate post about it until I did a search on it and found out that UncleJoe already beat me to it.  Still, I think some things are worth repeating because an important part of preparing for emergencies is knowing what you are going to be up against when all hell breaks loose. It also gives a good illustration for an answer to Tirediron's question about the sheeple.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

JayJay said:


> Oh, yeah. . . .
> 
> And as a side note, please don't assume my husband and I are any more financially secure than said neighbor---we're not---the difference is...WE KNOW IT AND ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!


JayJay - Sounds like you have a wealth beyond dollars and cents. More in the line of lots of "sense". Bravo for you and yours. :2thumb:


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Clarice said:


> ...I was just thinking yesterday, after trying to get one of my co-workers to stop texting and help with a client, anyone who wants to bring this nation to it's knees, need only to destroy the tech world most of the people live in. Disable the internet, kill cell phones and we would have a nation of babbling idiots. They would be unable to handle it. What do you mean I have to talk to someone face to face? JMHO


That made me think of another interesting point. With just the internet alone gone... how much worse would unemployment be? No internet... no Google. No Amazon. No _____. All of these places would cease to exist and of course everyone there would be out of a job. And how many of those former internet people have skills that would translate to a non electronic world? And how many supporting companies (office cleaning, restaurants, etc.) would also take a hit or fold too?

Of course this would probably be in conjunction with power outage as permanently losing just the internet would be unlikely. Perhaps a lot of blocking and monitoring (... think china...) but it's still there.

OK, enough musing.. I need to go make some more hard copies.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Culexpipien, I too make hard copies of the articles I think are important. A freak thing happened here at the courthouse not too long ago and everyone lost internet and phone service for a couple of hours. Some peoples cells worked while others did not. There was talk of closing the courthouse because we could not conduct business. Makes you stop and think. I scan all the checks I receive, then I print a hard copy. My co-workers think I'm nuts but I just feel better having a backup.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

CulexPipiens 

Good points about internet shut-down adding to unemployment...

and don't forget those job hunting using the net---I saved lots of gas using online applications.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Without internet my company would be dead in the water. Not only for our files but accessing our main database housed elsewhere. Very few hard copies made, for business purposes anyway. The auditors request soft copies of everything. It is part of the company ‘going paperless’ a few years ago. I can imagine that we are not the only place that would be helpless without technology.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

My DH's work would be completely shut down if there was no internet access. All testing and ordering is done via the net.


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## dawnwinds58 (Jul 12, 2010)

While we have the internet is when we need to be learning the processes used to make, create, or produce things vital to existence. Nope, no one person can do it all. What has me the most worried is clothing. In time, with no production, they will run out as most anything made today has a "self destruct" date. 

One family can't weave all the cloth, make all the clothes and shoes, blacksmith, farm, run dairy and beef cows, make the cheese, raise the chickens, preserve the food, do the wood working, tan the leather, knit the socks, make the quilts, cut and store the hay, train the oxen, haul the wood, build the fences, make the candles, spin the wool, build the barrells, make the apple cider, etc, etc unless it one BIG family. Takes a village of like-minded people working for the community and helping others in that community.

Once the power stops, your world gets REALLY small, and only the few miles around you will be relevant to your existence.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

Clarice said:


> The best thing to do after casually mentioning prepping for bad times is clam up. The more you talk about the necessity the more they will remember you when TSHTF. I was just thinking yesterday, after trying to get one of my co-workers to stop texting and help with a client, anyone who wants to bring this nation to it's knees, need only to destroy the tech world most of the people live in. Disable the internet, kill cell phones and we would have a nation of babbling idiots. They would be unable to handle it. What do you mean I have to talk to someone face to face? JMHO


Seriously, if that were to happen, the entire world WOULD be in chaos. I'm still waiting for that big EMP attack. My fiance doesn't believe me that it is possible...but it is. He wouldn't know what to do with himself considering he is a Network Administrator in IT.

I've learned to live without my cell phone and I'm 23 years old. :congrat: That is a feat in itself. The rest of my generation...will never be able to do that.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

dawnwinds58 said:


> One family can't weave all the cloth, make all the clothes and shoes, blacksmith, farm, run dairy and beef cows, make the cheese, raise the chickens, preserve the food, do the wood working, tan the leather, knit the socks, make the quilts, cut and store the hay, train the oxen, haul the wood, build the fences, make the candles, spin the wool, build the barrells, make the apple cider, etc, etc unless it one BIG family. Takes a village of like-minded people working for the community and helping others in that community.


One family or person can store an awful lot of clothes in plastic rubbermaid totes to extend how long they'll have these things. I could pick up boxes and boxes free from yard sales, especially at the end of the day on the last day of a sale.

One family could choose to have huge garden projects but not worry about having oxen and dairy cows, etc. Especially if they live where they can also hunt and fish. Tanning hides isn't hard. It's time consuming but once the tanning solution (brain-tanning in our case) is spread on the hide, a person can sit even in the dark and work the hide with their fingers while enjoying conversation. Everyone could be doing this, around a campfire.

Not everyone will need to spin wool, weave cloth, make barrels, or all of the other things you listed. Some of us will live quite well without that. People did, once upon a time. Here in the west, pioneer families lived with very little. Yes, they enjoyed the times they could get together with other families and a fiddle, and have a good time. When they could, they traded with each other, and trading posts were set up.

But don't ever think that a family couldn't go off into an isolated place and live a pretty good life. It can and has beeen done, and it can be as pleasant a life as a community life. It depends on the people, their priorities, and their knowledge, and probably also on their physical and mental health.

For at least the first generation or two we can store away enough stuff from our world to help the next generations into their world.


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

My wife and I have been prepping for a long time now. Other then one daughter and her husband, I tell no one what we are doing. Living very remote (26 miles from the nearest town) I am almost impossible to find now, let alone when the dirt cow trails are no longer traveled. Oh, whats that noise I hear, ah not to worry that is just the freezer coming on. Soon the refer will kick in on its timer also. No electricity here except what I make with my solar and wind. Building my raised bed gardens which will soon be time to plant and also putting away seeds. Also will need to soon finish my rain water collection systems to water the garden with. May take a little walk this morning as soon as it warms up and see if the antelope are still running the same path. 

In a few more weeks will also start building the new chicken coop as I will want around 12 hens minimum . Look at all the cotten tail rabbits out playing. Glad my wife has been feeding them over the last several years. Yummy, bar b qued bunnies. What will the ill-prepared people from the cities eat ? Dogs, cats for awhile and then each other I suppose. Cause if the come calling on me, my closest friend has an extend a hoe. That is a deep digging back hoe. Keeps the smell from rising up out of the ground. 

That is a general summation of how myself and neighbors all feel about when things get really bad around here.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

No, you can't do everything. But you can barter. Maybe the person that weaves isn't able to cut firewood. All you can do is all you can do to be prepared. We have and will continue to prep. Every day we think of something that would be helpful in a SHTF situation. There are some big ticket items we are having to save for, but should the balloon go up before we get them we will still survive. Don't get discouraged, just keep working toward your goal.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

I think being able to build small chicken coops and being able to provide hatching eggs or chicks is one thing my family is set up to do right now that could be very useful. If I get a Buck I will be able to provide a supply of meat goats or milk goats which I think would be very valuable if things go south.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I really feel we need to start now pulling as many details and last minute items together. After reading the news and between the lines of what they are not telling us the balloon will soon be going up. You know we use to be able to depend on the news media to report the truth and dig till they found the truth, but not any more, they are being programed by both the government and the bankers that have bought the government. IMHO


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

PamsPride said:


> I think being able to build small chicken coops and being able to provide hatching eggs or chicks is one thing my family is set up to do right now that could be very useful. If I get a Buck I will be able to provide a supply of meat goats or milk goats which I think would be very valuable if things go south.


Just keep your Buck away from the female goats or it can cause your goat milk to taste tainted... They can be such stinky boys!

On the matter of not being able to do everything--sure you might not be able to do everything, but I am learning as much as possible and collecting books and learning to do what is in the book too... Just cuz I might not have the time to do it doesn't mean that my learning to do it will be a waste of time--I may be able to teach others to do many things in barter for what I don't have time to make myself.. lol


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Knowledge and skills will never be wasted, and knowing how something is done gives a person a lot better idea what an item is worth in "barter land"


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

Thanks Emerald! Yes, I would keep them separate while the does are in milk. My biggest concern is keeping the buck away from my children especially while he is in rut.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

One family or person can store an awful lot of clothes in plastic rubbermaid totes to extend how long they'll have these things. 



I have vacuum sealed a lot of material. Then I packed the bags, along with patterns, away in plastic totes. The material won't last forever, but maybe by then someone will be set up as a weaver.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

JayJay

Good points about internet shut-down adding to unemployment...




This was in today's news, amazing how quickly a government can control it's people.!!!!

Egypt: Internet down, police counterterror unit up

By HAMZA HENDAWI and SARAH EL DEEB
AP posted: 9:36 PM 01/27/11

CAIRO -Internet service in Egypt was disrupted and the government deployed an elite special operations force in Cairo on Friday, hours before an anticipated new wave of anti-government protests.

The developments were a sign that President Hosni Mubarak's regime was toughening its crackdown following the biggest protests in years against his nearly 30-year rule.

The counter-terror force, rarely seen on the streets, took up positions in strategic locations, including central Tahrir Square, site of the biggest demonstrations this week.

Facebook and Twitter have helped drive this week's protests. But by Thursday evening, those sites were disrupted, along with cell phone text messaging and BlackBerry Messenger services. Then the Internet went down.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Why do ya think these scum in the whitehouse want a internet kill switch, there's an example right before ya eye's. They know it's coming just a matter of time.


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## MrSfstk8d (Jan 20, 2011)

PamsPride said:


> Thanks Emerald! Yes, I would keep them separate while the does are in milk. My biggest concern is keeping the buck away from my children especially while he is in rut.


Two words, Nerf Helmet,


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

MrSfstk8d said:


> Two words, Nerf Helmet,


For the goat or the kids??


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Hey guys don't worry, the workforce realized a 2% increase in wages or so the headlines read. They don't bother to tell you the 2% increase is due to a temporary reduction of social security tax. Also on the finacial news this morning the price of things are going down, all that were listed were I Phones etc. How do you cook an I Phone, how many does it take to feed your family? How do you connect this to your vehicle to power it when you can't afford gasoline? Does the financial world, government and news media really think we are ignorant? Thanks for letting me sound off.


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## MrSfstk8d (Jan 20, 2011)

Yes, yes they do. Because too many Sheeple are.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

Clarice said:


> Hey guys don't worry, the workforce realized a 2% increase in wages or so the headlines read. They don't bother to tell you the 2% increase is due to a temporary reduction of social security tax. Also on the finacial news this morning the price of things are going down, all that were listed were I Phones etc. How do you cook an I Phone, how many does it take to feed your family? How do you connect this to your vehicle to power it when you can't afford gasoline? Does the financial world, government and news media really think we are ignorant? Thanks for letting me sound off.


My DH got a 2.5% raise this year. He thinks other only got a 2% raise. He got 3% last year. Wages are a taboo subject at his work.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

PamsPride said:


> My DH got a 2.5% raise this year. He thinks other only got a 2% raise. He got 3% last year. Wages are a taboo subject at his work.


We got similar raises, but also got our medical premiums increased more than the amout of our raises so we ended with a net decrease in take home money! Then my state was nice enough to pass a 60%+ increase in income taxes. So, end result, with a raise I'm expecting to be netting about a 4% pay cut! Food going up, gas going up, yeah. Fun times.


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## MrSfstk8d (Jan 20, 2011)

In the same boat with Quinn & Co. But I haven't gotten a raise in 3 1/2 years. What's inflation been since 2007? Ugh...


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

Down in my neck of the woods we are looking at layoffs in February, and another round of layoffs in June or July.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

This is my rant.....per topic...

~~~One family or person can store an awful lot of clothes in plastic rubbermaid totes to extend how long they'll have these things.~~~ 

But does my church friend think of these things when she takes me to Sam's and fills HER cart with JUNK and tells me her husband spent $500 on a new tv with deceased dad's gift(he only had $1700??) and he may get laid off any time and they have $3000 a month coming in with his check and her disability each month(you should see how they live!!) and you don't even want to know at this point what I'm thinking!!!!........
She has a 9 year old and didn't buy material as I know she sews--she told me. There is a total of 10 pieces of wood in the yard for their heat!! And the one car may stop running at any minute!!!

And the other acquaintance/neighbor comes in with a new cut and color complaining 1)she had to post-date a check for that and 2) she had to scrounge money for re-filling the gas tank---and I'm supposed to care??

WHY AM I THE ONLY ONE WITH THESE TYPE OF ACQUAINTANCES??

Alex Jones just had a guest say there will be no food shortage in the stores, not now, not soon, maybe never----but the food will be so high, only the rich will be able to afford it!!

And I have acquaintances buying big screen tvs and junk and getting hair cuts and colors??

Note: I did take her into the extra bedroom and showed her my new 8 x 8 x 2 foot shelfing my darling got me for $30 from a friend moving!!!:congrat:....filled with provisions and stocked with supplies!!

She already knows about my stash--she's the one who's husband gets a pension from Kallefornia and won't allow her to stock food and supplies.:scratch


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

My cousin just told me yesterday that they owe $70K on their house, $11K each on two credit cards ($22K total there), $500 each on two lease vehicles ($1K a month there), plus a home equity line of credit they owe but did not say how much. 
She said they are getting an estimated $2K back on income tax and they are going to use it for a vacation!! She said most of the $22K on credit cards was from vacations too!! 
The leases are up soon and they are giving both vehicles back and she will be driving their third vehicle, she is a SAHM, and he will be driving his work vehicle back and forth to work. 
I suggested that they take the $2K from taxes and put that on a credit card along with the $1K a month to have at least one of them paid off within a year and she said NOPE! He wants to take a vacation...his reasoning: We do not know what tomorrow holds so lets live for today! She said he takes care of the bills so if he says vacation that she is cool with it!

She is a big couponer but gives a lot of it away and as far as I know she does not store any large quantities food. He is a cop.

Sometimes I start feeling sorry for myself because we have sacrificed and gone with out so much to have food put aside and our kids have gone with out all the vacations and stuff.....but at least I know I can feed my family and sleep at night.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

> Sometimes I start feeling sorry for myself because we have sacrificed and gone with out so much to have food put aside and our kids have gone with out all the vacations and stuff.....but at least I know I can feed my family and sleep at night.


__________________
Pam..don't even go there---at least you didn't open your big fat mouth telling your acquaintance/neighbor about your stash which is huge and has taken 2 years because you THOUGHT she would use common sense and start saving food...screw the TP...that can be arranged, but food?? no way!!

I am not telling her another thing on sale--she's always broke!!!

And from my experience---your cousin isn't telling it all!!


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

No raise here. DH is one of the unaccounted for 'underemployed.' But underemployed is far better than unemployed, and we're thankful.

JayJay, you're not alone. We have the same acquaintances. Another weird one is when someone learns that I can, and they say, "that sounds interesting, how much does a canner cost?" (got mine for $70 off Amazon). Then I get this condescending look and a "oh, we can't afford that." But they go out to eat 3x a week! (and not the cheap stuff, either.) I can't remember the last time I went out to eat. Shoot, I can't remember the last time I had someone else cut my hair...

Pam, you've done the best thing for your kids by foregoing vacations/etc. in order to prepare. Your cousin is teaching her children that morality can be checked at the door - take vacations now rather than paying the bills, because you don't know what will happen tomorrow. You're teaching your kids that you live right and take care of responsibilities first, regardless of the certainty/uncertainty of life. :congrat:


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

I have tried to instill it in my kids that they are to be stocked up on food too when they are older and have their own places. I have also told my kids NOT to talk about how much food we do have. I do however play the "Oh my gosh! These kids eat so much food I can not even keep food in the cupboard or afford to buy groceries!" card very well!
I am also somewhat of an outsider in my social circles. I have a large family, am outspoken...one friend called it 'aggressive' :scratch ...tend to have lots of opinions  , I have farm animals, garden, can, sew, and I am very protective of my children. I am sure I could come up with 10 or 20 other things that puts me on the outs in my social circle...when I say social circle I just mean church! LOL! I don't go to many other places. So someone would be down right desperate before they came knocking on my door I am sure.


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## FreeNihilist (Jan 28, 2011)

JayJay said:


> This is my rant.....per topic...
> 
> ~~~One family or person can store an awful lot of clothes in plastic rubbermaid totes to extend how long they'll have these things.~~~
> 
> ...


I have many of these acquaintances and most people 'round these parts are like this if not all. In fact, in my area I havent met anyone who isnt this way. Its just the way my area is, I guess. To make matters worse, most people I know have difficulty cooking from even boxed meals, are at least 30 plus pounds overweight and never exercise. They have no more than 3 days of food in their houses at any time and have zero extra supplies for anything. Most have no outdoors skills and the ones that do are sports hunters and sports fisherman (catch and release only). None of them can build a fire, fix anything themselves or have any even remotely redeemable survival skills. They dont garden and couldnt grow anything if their live depended on it.

This is why NO ONE knows about my stash of weapons, food, heirloom seeds, traps, supplies, precious metals, etc. Because the second the chips are down, they'd all attempt to suck up or steal my supplies.

Ive tried to convert a few of them whom I thought might listen but they all act like I am some crazy person by suggesting they take precautions, even if only small ones. These people are going to be royally screwed if even a minor disaster hit. I was quite amused that when power was lost for days more than once over the years 'round these parts none of them had candles, or flashlights, let alone generators, even though its a common enough occurrence.

Secretly I think i find the idea of them being SOL when TSHTF quite humorous and amusing. It's sort of like the fable about The Grasshopper and The Ant.

On the other hand, these people annoy the piss out of me by not being even remotely intelligent.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

FreeNihilist said:


> Secretly I think i find the idea of them being SOL when TSHTF quite humorous and amusing. It's sort of like the fable about The Grasshopper and The Ant.
> 
> On the other hand, these people annoy the piss out of me by not being even remotely intelligent.


You might be surprised who has what and who knows how to do what. I know someone within walking distance of Appleton with enough food storage to feed half of Appleton for months! Yet you'd never have a clue if you met this person.

You seem to enjoy displaying your arrogance. It might be wise for you to tone it down a bit. And watch your language. This is a forum that is basically "family friendly", in that we don't talk like that to each other on here.


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## FreeNihilist (Jan 28, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> You might be surprised who has what and who knows how to do what. I know someone within walking distance of Appleton with enough food storage to feed half of Appleton for months! Yet you'd never have a clue if you met this person.
> 
> You seem to enjoy displaying your arrogance. It might be wise for you to tone it down a bit. And watch your language. This is a forum that is basically "family friendly", in that we don't talk like that to each other on here.


It is not arrogance but I have no pity for those who do not listen to people about the reality of what could happen regardless of who is conveying the information.

I am displaying a very neutral tone, what ever you're reading from it, is purely yours. I simply have no sympathy for people who refuse to take care of themselves and their families and personally Im not going to sacrifice my foodstuffs and supplies and compromise my life and well being for people who cant be bothered to take precautions. Self survival is most important in my book.

I do not understand where I used inappropriate language. I would be much obliged if you could point this out to me so I can avoid future issues with language.

I am not generalizing and would not be surprised, however when people make it very clear that they do not know what theyre doing to me in conversation and do not wish to learn, that is their decision but it is also mine to laugh about it personally if they come to me after the fact when its too late.

The only back Im watching when things fall apart is my own. You cant trust people, period. In such a situation, neighbors, friends, even family would seek to take what they need as no one is willing to just lay down and die slowly.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

WOW. For some reason I hope there is an ignore button. You remind me of someone I work with who I despise as a pompous know it all jerk. But then I again I could be wrong.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

*Quote from FreeNihilist "Secretly I think i find the idea of them being SOL when TSHTF quite humorous and amusing. It's sort of like the fable about The Grasshopper and The Ant.

On the other hand, these people annoy the piss out of me by not being even remotely intelligent."*

I think that is it

Being responsible for ones own welfare seems to be unfashionable these days, people love to compare haw deeply in debt they are, if you tell them you have no or little debt they don't want to talk anymore. 
Those in the violent areas of Egypt will be thinking SHTF for them. are they ready ??


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

> I have also told my kids NOT to talk about how much food we do have. I do however play the "Oh my gosh! These kids eat so much food I can not even keep food in the cupboard or afford to buy groceries!" card very well!


OOOOHHH--now that's funny!!

I have a 8 x 8 food pantry --it's a mud room turned into a pantry---I moved every canned good and every supply into an empty bedroom---I can lock the door from inside-(need a turn thingy to open it>>>oh, did someone lock the door by mistake??) and the shelves in the pantry have empty canning jars on them.

I made a mistake telling one neighbor; not again!!:ignore:

I'M LEARNING...IT'S OKAY TO TELL PEOPLE...JUST NOT YOUR CLOSE RELATIVES, CLOSE FRIENDS, AND CLOSE NEIGHBORS...TELL PEOPLE 50 MILES FROM YOU; THEY CAN'T GET TO YOUR HOUSE PROBABLY WTSHTF..

Gypsysue says: You might be surprised who has what and who knows how to do what. I know someone within walking distance of Appleton with enough food storage to feed half of Appleton for months! Yet you'd never have a clue if you met this person.

I pray the people at church and my neighbors are like this...oh, how I pray.


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## FreeNihilist (Jan 28, 2011)

JayJay said:


> > also told my kids NOT to talk about how much food we do have. I do however play the "Oh my gosh! These kids eat so much food I can not even keep food in the cupboard or afford to buy groceries!" card very well!
> 
> 
> OOOOHHH--now that's funny!!
> ...


Yes getting those living with you not to talk about certain delicate things like food, supplies, valuables, etc can be a task. Ive had issues with that as well in this house. One example, being that someone decided to tell many people that I keep a large amount of precious metals in the house. I wouldnt say this is a dangerous area per se but robberies are common enough and I personally know someone who had their inheritance of very valuable coins stolen shortly after she showed several friends her collection that she inherited from the passing of her father.

I am fortunate to live in an old farmhouse built in 1887 that has a very nicely designed pantry room and nice large cupboards. It makes things much easier to conceal and to have the space to stock up. Also every room has a door on it including the dining and kitchen areas because it has the original doors and structures from when it was built and granted it may be a simple skeleton lock but it still keeps people out. Determined people will find a way in no matter what is used for a lock but it does the job of hiding from prying eyes.

I only tell people online, probably because I dont know people who live 50 miles away. All my family, friends etc are currently local. But its a valid point indeed.lol


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

JayJay said:


> I have also told my kids NOT to talk about how much food we do have. I do however play the "Oh my gosh! These kids eat so much food I can not even keep food in the cupboard or afford to buy groceries!" card very well!
> 
> OOOOHHH--now that's funny!!


Last week it was "Holy moly!! I bought FOUR gallons of milk! FOUR!!! On Friday night. I did not even get home with groceries until like 8PM that night! Then on Monday morning it was GONE!! GONE!! Not even enough to make the baby a bottle!! The kids drank all of that milk in TWO DAYS!! Are you kidding?!?!"

People have also heard about how much my kids eat when they go on camp outs! Three of them came back from one camp out and all I heard about was my 13 yo eating THIRTY chicken wings!! I laughed and told them "Yeah well I two other kids that eat more than him!! And they are not even all teenagers yet! I can barely keep up with feeding them now! I can not even imagine what it is going to be like when they are all teenagers!" :surrender:
I always say it real dramatic like too!!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

PamsPride said:


> Last week it was "Holy moly!! I bought FOUR gallons of milk! FOUR!!! The kids drank all of that milk in TWO DAYS!! Are you kidding?!?!"


 Sounds like it's time to get yourself a dairy cow.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> Sounds like it's time to get yourself a dairy cow.


It is on my list....at the TOP!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Even growing up with 5 siblings we only went through 3 gallon a WEEK.
My parents went right to Valley Farms Dairy on Saturday and got milk in glass 1 gal. bottles. The empties were taken back the following week and replaced with full ones. 
Us kids would fight over who got to go to the farm each week.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

We did not always go through this much milk. About a month or so ago I started getting more milk just to see if we would go through it. I wanted to see if we would REALLY use enough milk to justify a milk cow. I mean what am I supposed to do with 3-5 gallons of milk EVERYDAY if the kids are only going to use a half gallon?? What if I get busy and we do not turn some of the milk into butter and cheese right away?? If I am getting close to 5 gallons a day I could end up with 20 gallons of milk in the fridge at the end of the week!! Well, the more I buy the more they drink!! :beercheer: (<--pretend that is frothy cold milk and drink up!)
Between milk, butter, cheese, ice cream, and yogurt I am now pretty sure that we would indeed use up most if not all the milk a cow could produce for us! If I had any left I would share milk, cheese, and butter with my mom.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If you get a cream cow (Jersey,Gurnsey) instead of a milk cow(holstien) you will get a more reasonable volume for family use and have more cream to make into butter and maybe ice cream. cream cows tend to be smaller and more gentle and have better personalities. And think of the forearms your boys will develop milking by hand. Extra skim milk can be easily made into cottage cheese.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> If you get a cream cow (Jersey,Gurnsey) instead of a milk cow(holstien) you will get a more reasonable volume for family use and have more cream to make into butter and maybe ice cream. cream cows tend to be smaller and more gentle and have better personalities. And think of the forearms your boys will develop milking by hand. Extra skim milk can be easily made into cottage cheese.


those are very good points, unfortunately with < 2% of the population involved in food production 'modern'  farming turned the animals into industrial production equipment


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

I will be getting a Jersey, purebred. There is a Jersey farm that is about 45 minutes from me that sells them starting at $500 and up. The farmer told me he can always pull a cow out of his herd to provide for a home milker. He said he would have his largest selection available in March. So my goal is to be able to get it then. I have half of the money saved for one but I have told myself I can not get it until my credit card is paid off....sort of like my reward for getting it paid off. I will more than likely be the one doing all of the milking. Two of my boys would milk if I let them but the other ones are not really into it. All of the kids like to make butter.
I talked to the farmer and he feeds for production and told me the cows could very easily be cut back on their feed to get less milk to make a better home milker.


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## MrSfstk8d (Jan 20, 2011)

Right, Pam, that's what the agriculturalists refer to as the "maintenance plus a gallon" formula. The cow needs XX amount of feed for healthy living, plus XX amount more feed of this and that type for each additional gallon of milk you expect her to produce (within reason mind you). Those amounts vary breed to breed, but the experienced Jersey man you're talking to should have all of that figured out and gladly be able to share it with you, I would think. As an aside, when, hopefully not many years hence, I'm able to get a milker, I'd love to have a Belted Denmark (sp?). They're a dual purpose breed, and nearly bred out of existence at one point, due in no small part to the assembly line agribusiness model, sigh...


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I would love to have a Jersey. No one down here has any, just beef cows. I love homemade butter and cheeses.


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