# Silver and gold are down right now



## hiwall

Silver and gold are down right now. If you were thinking about adding PM's to your prepps this might be a good time. Obviously PM's are not for everyone but can be a good storage of wealth for many people.
Just thought I would bring it up for those that do not watch the PM market.


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## ZoomZoom

I wish I could tell how low it'll go. Have been watching closely. 

Myself, I look at a buy when I can get it for under $17 (including sellers commission and shipping).


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## Tweto

I'm not that excited by Gold being just $50 lower. I trade wealth from dollars to Gold for the stabilizing effects for inflation and financial collapse.

Between the 2, Silver is the cheaper and the smarter to get, especially at these dollar values.

Now is the time to stock up.


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## BillS

Silver is down about $2 in the last three weeks. It's down almost everyday. When it's up it's only a penny. I don't want to buy any more right now because I buy only when I have extra money. I try to keep a lot of cash because of unexpected expenses.


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## Tacitus

Silver seems to be down a bit more than gold. The Gold-to-silver-ratio (GSR) is at about 75 right now. It was up as high as 80 a couple years ago, but 75 is very high. A high GSR means that Gold is more highly valued (costly) in relation to money than silver is valued in relation to money. In other words, a high GSR means it is cheaper to buy silver now than it is to buy gold now. Both are down now, but silver is down further.

Of course, a particular value of silver weighs a lot more (75 times more, right now) than the same value in gold. If you are buying a little, no problem. if you are buying a lot...you will need to give some thought to storage if you want to buy silver.


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## hiwall

Just to point out the drop--- a month ago silver was about $18.50 and today it was $16.16. That is a big drop in a short time. Of course none of us know if it will continue to go down or turn around and go up.


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## BillS

Eventually we'll have the very last price suppression action with the precious metals. Large futures contracts are being dumped on the paper markets everyday to push the price down. China or Russia could kill the paper silver market by buying it up and then demanding physical delivery. We could see silver go up everyday by a couple of dollars. Then we could see companies stop selling silver until the price plateaus. Because in a rapidly rising market you're not making money if you sell silver at $25 and then buy more at $30. I don't know if all that will be happening soon. I still have a third of my wealth in cash because I don't know when the game is ending.


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## BillS

Tacitus said:


> Silver seems to be down a bit more than gold. The Gold-to-silver-ratio (GSR) is at about 75 right now. It was up as high as 80 a couple years ago, but 75 is very high. A high GSR means that Gold is more highly valued (costly) in relation to money than silver is valued in relation to money. In other words, a high GSR means it is cheaper to buy silver now than it is to buy gold now. Both are down now, but silver is down further.
> 
> Of course, a particular value of silver weighs a lot more (75 times more, right now) than the same value in gold. If you are buying a little, no problem. if you are buying a lot...you will need to give some thought to storage if you want to buy silver.


In real round numbers silver is about $250 a pound so 40 lbs is $10,000. At the high end silver is about $500,000 a ton.


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## Pessimistic2

BillS......."China or Russia could kill the paper silver market by buying it up and then demanding physical delivery."

Once upon a time, the Hunt Brothers tried this.....they lost BILLIONS. Didn't work. 

http://www.rapidtrends.com/hunt-brothers-and-silver-story/
Excerpt: "In 1988 Bunker filed for personal bankruptcy. In 1989 he left bankruptcy with a net worth of $5 to 10 million dollars and a debt to the IRS of $90 million dollars to be repaid in 15 years. Bunker's trusts, set up by his father H.L. Hunt, are currently valued at $200 million dollars. Last year the payments to the IRS finally stopped. Protect yourself and invest and save in real money instead of our current unlawful fiat. Invest at least 10% of your assets in bullion and take possession - DO NOT BUY SILVER FUTURES CONTRACTS ON MARGIN. THE BIG SHORTS ARE STILL OUT THERE AND WAITING TO HAVE THOSE FOOLISH SILVER BULLS FOR LUNCH FROM TIME TO TIME. THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO PAY IN FULL AND TAKE POSSESSION. It is a game that even the richest men in the world sometimes lose."


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## BillS

Pessimistic2 said:


> BillS......."China or Russia could kill the paper silver market by buying it up and then demanding physical delivery."
> 
> Once upon a time, the Hunt Brothers tried this.....they lost BILLIONS. Didn't work.
> 
> http://www.rapidtrends.com/hunt-brothers-and-silver-story/
> Excerpt: "In 1988 Bunker filed for personal bankruptcy. In 1989 he left bankruptcy with a net worth of $5 to 10 million dollars and a debt to the IRS of $90 million dollars to be repaid in 15 years. Bunker's trusts, set up by his father H.L. Hunt, are currently valued at $200 million dollars. Last year the payments to the IRS finally stopped. Protect yourself and invest and save in real money instead of our current unlawful fiat. Invest at least 10% of your assets in bullion and take possession - DO NOT BUY SILVER FUTURES CONTRACTS ON MARGIN. THE BIG SHORTS ARE STILL OUT THERE AND WAITING TO HAVE THOSE FOOLISH SILVER BULLS FOR LUNCH FROM TIME TO TIME. THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO PAY IN FULL AND TAKE POSSESSION. It is a game that even the richest men in the world sometimes lose."


Today is different for a number of reasons:

Russia has much more vast resources than the Hunt Brothers did.

Russia wouldn't be trying to corner the silver market.

The Com Ex and the LBMA trade at least 100 paper ounces of silver for every ounce they physically have. They set the world price but actually handle a small fraction of all silver that's produced. I've seen it estimated that Russia could destroy the Comex for about $5 billion. They will do that immediately if Trump pushes war with Russia in Syria. You can also be sure that a war with Russia would lead to the immediate death of the petro-dollar system. Russia and China would be the new protectors of the Middle East OPEC countries. OPEC in turn would, at a minimum, accept other currencies besides the dollar. They could even refuse payment in dollars. Once that happens America joins the Third World.


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## Pessimistic2

BillS...."Today is different for a number of reasons: Russia has much more vast resources than the Hunt Brothers did. Russia wouldn't be trying to corner the silver market. The Com Ex and the LBMA trade at least 100 paper ounces of silver for every ounce they physically have. They set the world price but actually handle a small fraction of all silver that's produced. I've seen it estimated that Russia could destroy the Comex for about $5 billion."

Well, you have a valid point there....Russia, or China, have a lot more money than the Hunt brothers did. Actually, I suppose even some Middle-Eastern nation could wreak havoc on our markets if they put their minds to it. The damn markets are a house of cards anyway......anyone that thinks "playing the market" is any different than gambling at the track or Vegas is nuts! :beercheer:


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## hiwall

Since I originally posted this, silver has gone up by about one dollar per ounce. 
Of course it could still go down or continue going up.
Silver right now is $17.19 per ounce.


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## Flight1630

hiwall said:


> Since I originally posted this, silver has gone up by about one dollar per ounce.
> Of course it could still go down or continue going up.
> Silver right now is $17.19 per ounce.


Is that a good price? I have no idea


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## Tacitus

Flight1630 said:


> Is that a good price? I have no idea


Depends.

In the past 5-6 years, when it got up to the $40's? Yes.

In the past 20 years? Middle of the road. But, I don't think many people think we are going back to the days of $5 silver.

If silver does get that low again, then I think things will be going so well, that the risks we prep for will also be way down...which is a good thing. So, if you buy now, and it does drop back down that low, you will be doing very well anyway.

Note, however, that you need to decide what is right for you. For example, I don't look at silver as an investment. I look at it as savings...but prepper savings in that it is a non-currency store of wealth that will be good even in times of inflation and hyperinflation. Some here will point out that silver and gold may be worthless in some versions of the apocalypse. I'm not sure that will be the case, but you need to consider their position as well.


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## Tacitus

A further point: I only convert discretionary currency into precious metals. The lion's share of my savings is digital. But, I'm trying to build up my physical (cash/metal) savings. If my digital savings disappears, and I can't sell stock or withdraw from a 401k, or whatever, because the banks and markets are closed, I want to have some cash and cash-like options. 

But, I'm not "all in" either, so that if metals go to zero, I will also still have options. 

I just like silver because in many SHTF circumstances, it may be easier to trade silver coins (or gold coins) than to trade bushels of grain or half-days of labor. 

Also, I can get most of my cash back out of the metals at any time, since they are so liquid and easy to sell right now. When I buy a 50# sack of wheat, I'm pretty much committed to consuming the wheat. Not so the 1 or 2 ounces of silver. I can get my cash back out of the silver more easily.


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## hiwall

Silver coins have many uses. Heavy duty tiddly winks, poker with friends, melt and cast into bullets, use for fishing weights, drill a hole in them to use as washers, make your own colloidal silver to cure what ails you, melt and plate you drinking cup so it automatically sterilizes your water before you drink it, the list is almost endless. Kinda makes you wonder why everyone does not have a pile of 'em at home.


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## Woody

And the main reason? They will never be 'worth' nothing. Unlike pretty pieces of paper or ones and zeros on a computer, PM’s will have some value at any given time.


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## Pessimistic2

Currently, gold is at $1260, down $2-3. That $3 is less than 1/4 of 1%...don't think I'll panic just yet! 

http://www.monex.com/liveprices/


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## TheLazyL

Flight1630 said:


> Is that a good price? I have no idea


100 years ago silver was $15.80 per ounce. This month it's $17.26 a ounce.

During the last 100 years there were two major peaks; $102.65 in December 1979 and $41.43 in March of 2010.

During the last 100 years there were a few valleys; $5.63 October 1930 and $6.10 May 2000.

My rough in the head figuring is silver average is $21 to $22 an ounce for the last 100 years. Good time to buy (IMHO) is at $20 or less.

http://www.macrotrends.net/1470/historical-silver-prices-100-year-chart


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## Tacitus

TheLazyL said:


> 100 years ago silver was $15.80 per ounce. This month it's $17.26 a ounce.
> 
> During the last 100 years there were two major peaks; $102.65 in December 1979 and $41.43 in March of 2010.
> 
> During the last 100 years there were a few valleys; $5.63 October 1930 and $6.10 May 2000.
> 
> My rough in the head figuring is silver average is $21 to $22 an ounce for the last 100 years. Good time to buy (IMHO) is at $20 or less.
> 
> http://www.macrotrends.net/1470/historical-silver-prices-100-year-chart


I actually agree that under $20 is a reasonable point at which to purchase silver.

But, I thought I would point out that the numbers above are inflation adjusted, and the link is to a log scale, inflation adjusted chart.

In non-inflation adjusted numbers, the price of silver 100 years ago was 84 cents.

So, if you put that $.84 from 1917 under your mattress, you would not be able to buy an ounce of silver with it in 2017, like you would have been able to do in 1917. (Let's pretend that was 84 pennies, not 3 silver quarters and a silver dime from 1917.)
If, on the other hand, you bought that ounce of silver in 1917, and then sold it today, you would have multiplied your money by 20x (in terms of dollars), having $17.26 to show for your "investment."

Having said that, I am *not* pushing silver as an investment. Because, in my opinion, silver actually didn't rise 20x. I think that the dollar changed in value by 1/20th due to inflation. Holding that value in silver didn't result in making money; it resulted in not losing value due to inflation.

Something to also note in historic charts: The government used to set the prices, because they were coining silver coins. Current coins are not silver, so the prices float.


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## Tacitus

Tacitus said:


> I actually agree that under $20 is a reasonable point at which to purchase silver. ...


Further note: You have to consider two facters: spot price and premium.

We are talking about spot price above. But, if you buy from a high-premium dealer, you might lose the benefit of a low spot price. Companies that sell on TV usually have high premiums, so be careful. Sometimes a TV company will give you a good deal on a first sale, to get you "in the door," but often not. Buyer beware.

I try to buy locally as much as I can. After shopping around a lot, I do have a "go to" place. But, I always watch prices.


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## Pessimistic2

The 1917 "dollar" would now be worth $18.75. Or, to put that in perspective, today's dollar would be worth $0.0533....

http://www.in2013dollars.com/1917-dollars-in-2016

How to calculate inflation between 1917 and 2016
Start with the CPI inflation formula:
CPI in 2016
CPI in 1917
* 1917 USD value = 2016 USD value
Then plug in historical CPI values. The U.S. CPI was 12.8 in the year 1917 and 240.007 in 2016:
240.007
12.8
* $100 = $1,875.05
The "purchasing power" of $100 from 1917 is $1,875.05 in 2016.


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## Tacitus

I've heard it said (and maybe I've said it before here in some form) that you could buy a nice suit with a US $10 gold coin (half ounce) 100 years ago, and you can take that same gold coin, sell it now (to any number of gold buyers), and still buy a nice suit today using the value in that coin. 









But, if you kept that $10 in the form of a paper note, it would still be worth $10 today (some more, some less, with only collectors buying), and you wouldn't be able to buy the suit. 









The point being: Inflation affects paper, but it does not affect precious metals.

(I'm sure there are effects, and the dollar has a lot of short term "noise" in its value, but I think the thought is that over the long haul, metals will hold their value, and the paper dollar will not.)


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## Pessimistic2

Gold, 1917....$20.67 oz. Gold today, 2017......$1,260 oz.
$1.00 bill, 1917..$1.00. That 1917 dollar today....$0.0533.

'Nuff said!! :gaah:


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## bkt

Tacitus said:


> I've heard it said (and maybe I've said it before here in some form) that you could buy a nice suit with a US $10 gold coin (half ounce) 100 years ago, and you can take that same gold coin, sell it now (to any number of gold buyers), and still buy a nice suit today using the value in that coin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But, if you kept that $10 in the form of a paper note, it would still be worth $10 today (some more, some less, with only collectors buying), and you wouldn't be able to buy the suit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The point being: Inflation affects paper, but it does not affect precious metals.
> 
> (I'm sure there are effects, and the dollar has a lot of short term "noise" in its value, but I think the thought is that over the long haul, metals will hold their value, and the paper dollar will not.)


Actually, that comes from Chris Martenson's Crash Course (google it and watch it if you haven't seen it) in which he points out the stability of commodity values to each other remain fairly constant even over a long period of time. He said 2000 years ago, one ounce of gold would get very nice clothes, a nice belt, and nice footwear. Today, an ounce of gold will get you a nice suit, a nice belt and nice shoes. His point was that commodity values relative to one another are stable, but currency is not stable at all. That's why we could have gold coins in circulation worth $5, $10 and $20 100 years ago but we can't today. The gold is exactly the same but the dollar sure isn't the same.

Precious metals are a commodity. You have to work to get them. Paper isn't a commodity; it's just a representation of a commodity. More often than not, that paper is a misrepresentation. Hence the devaluation of the currency.


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## hiwall

Some people apparently do buy new silver coins. In 1986 the US mint started making the one ounce Silver Eagles which are one true ounce of silver.
They sold over 5 million that first year.
2015 was the mint's best year when they sold 47 million of the one ounce coins in one year.
That is A LOT of silver coins! And that is just one coin. Some years the US mint had to stop making the coins because they ran out of silver.


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## Tacitus

bkt said:


> Actually, that comes from Chris Martenson's Crash Course (google it and watch it if you haven't seen it) in which he points out the stability of commodity values to each other remain fairly constant even over a long period of time. ...


Thanks, and agreed on all counts. I first heard it on a national radio show. I suspect that little story makes the rounds. It very aptly demonstrates the principle.

So many people want to "make money" on precious metals "investments." Not me. If i want to invest, I will buy stocks or bonds. My wife, the positive one, pushes that sufficiently. Me, the worrying one?...I rest easy knowing that she has the good future covered, and I look to mitigate the losses of a bad future. So, when I want to preserve savings (1) at a value that will track commodities I may want to buy some day (e.g., wheat, clothes, etc.), and (2) in an easily transportable, easily tradable form, then precious metals are better. Of course, I do normal prepping (water, food, etc.) as well.


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## Flight1630

All I do is give my money to my wife and she takes good care of it l


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## TheLazyL

Tacitus said:


> ...on the other hand, you bought that ounce of silver in 1917, and then sold it today, you would have multiplied your money by 20x (in terms of dollars), having $17.26 to show for your "investment."...


With that "investment" and inflation (20x) you gained $6.46 (17.27-15.80). That's 6.46 cents a year over the 100 year period.


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## Tweto

bkt said:


> Actually, that comes from Chris Martenson's Crash Course (google it and watch it if you haven't seen it) in which he points out the stability of commodity values to each other remain fairly constant even over a long period of time. He said 2000 years ago, one ounce of gold would get very nice clothes, a nice belt, and nice footwear. Today, an ounce of gold will get you a nice suit, a nice belt and nice shoes. His point was that commodity values relative to one another are stable, but currency is not stable at all. That's why we could have gold coins in circulation worth $5, $10 and $20 100 years ago but we can't today. The gold is exactly the same but the dollar sure isn't the same.
> 
> Precious metals are a commodity. You have to work to get them. Paper isn't a commodity; it's just a representation of a commodity. More often than not, that paper is a misrepresentation. Hence the devaluation of the currency. A small portion of Gold is used for manufacturing but at least 80% is locked away in safes as coins or bars.


Rob Kirby points out that Gold is not a commodity because to be a commodity it has to have some useful purpose in manufacturing, food industry, or some civilian purpose like oil. Silver is a commodity but gold is an asset or money only. He goes on to say that 80% of Gold is stored away as coins or bars.


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## hiwall

Well, gold is used in some industries. It is the best metal for electrical contacts. It also has other uses but not to the extent that say iron or oil do.


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## Tacitus

TheLazyL said:


> With that "investment" and inflation (20x) you gained $6.46 (17.27-15.80). That's 6.46 cents a year over the 100 year period.


Actually, no. It went from an *actual amount of $.84* to an *actual amount of $17.27*. (You are still looking at inflation adjusted numbers, not actual numbers. $15.80 in 1917 would have turned into a _much_ larger dollar amount by 2017 due to inflation.)

Also, please understand that I put "investment" in quotes precisely because I _don't_ consider it an investment. The value of the silver stayed the same (measured in commodities, not in dollars). It's value could buy the same thing in 1917 as it could in 2017. The dollar, on the other hand, inflated (lost 1/20th value) over 100 years. The $.84 could not buy the same thing in 2017 as it could in 1917.

Silver preserves value. Stocks are investments. If you are looking for a big gain, buy stocks.


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## Tweto

hiwall said:


> Well, gold is used in some industries. It is the best metal for electrical contacts. It also has other uses but not to the extent that say iron or oil do.


In the 70's my manufacturing company used Gold to coat electrical relays for the telephone industry. Even thought we made almost every relay used in the entire US we still only used about 20 pounds a year on a continuous assembly line that ran 24-7. The thing about Gold that makes it very special from all other metals is that you easily put coating layers down in the micro thicknesses scale of a few thousandths of an inch and even at a tenth the thickness of a human hair it would still last the life of the equipment.

When it comes to Gold, a little goes a long way.

I was watching a NASA show on deep space probes and they said that gold was the way they make their 21 foot diameter transmission dishes work at billions of miles from earth. Even though they plated the entire 3 yard diameter dishes with gold they only used a few ounces to do it.


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## hiwall

Gold is very inert and seldom shows any tarnish. Makes it good for jewelry but also for many other things. Because of this trait when you find gold in or on the ground it looks just like, well, gold!
Compared to silver which turns black or copper which usually turns green.


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## hiwall

Silver and gold are down again now with silver just above $16 per oz.
'Paper' silver and gold trading has resulted in big swings in the prices of metals. Still might be a good time to buy with prices back down some (if you were thinking on it anyway).


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## Pessimistic2

hiwall said:


> Silver and gold are down again now with silver just above $16 per oz. 'Paper' silver and gold trading has resulted in big swings in the prices of metals. Still might be a good time to buy with prices back down some (if you were thinking on it anyway).


Gold is up $3.90 so far for the day, $1,225.81 (11:48 EST), Silver down $0.05 @ $16.18. Gold is a pretty good jump down from the June high of $1,298.75 (June 7th).

https://www.jmbullion.com/charts/gold-price/#


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## Tweto

I'm starting to get a gut feeling that now is the right time to buy.


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## bkt

Tweto said:


> I'm starting to get a gut feeling that now is the right time to buy.


It's *always* a good time to trade Federal Reserve Notes for money.


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## BillS

If you go to USdebtclock.org you'll see a section on the second page about gold and silver. The current silver to dollar ratio is $817 and the gold to dollar ratio is $6746. I believe if the metals prices weren't being suppressed then those are what the prices would be. Or at least in that ballpark. Eventually price suppression is going to end. Those of us with significant amounts of precious metals will do very well.

So then it won't matter if you bought silver at $16 or $60 when it's $600 or $800.


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## hiwall

Silver and gold are continuing their drop. As I type this- -gold $1213 and silver $15.64


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## Tweto

Just to pass this along. My source for Precious metals told me to buy every ounce of silver I could get if silver ever hit $14.50. He didn't give me a suggestion on Gold.


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## BillS

When it drops like this I always wonder if this is the last big hit on PM prices before they end price suppression. That could depend on whether or not it's still possible to buy it cheap in big enough quantities. I know that when I buy from sdbullion.com that it takes a week after the payment clears before it's shipped. So they might be selling silver and gold they've ordered but not received yet. Or it could be a symptom of the health of the business.

I expect that the big US banks are buying all the silver and gold that they can get. I assume that they advise their investment clients to sell all their metals because the prices keep dropping.

I keep expecting one of these days to find out that silver went up by $10 overnight and gold by $500.


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## Mortblanc

I hate to tell you this, and I am sure you will find a way not to believe it, but when the economy is strong or improving the prices of silver and gold go down.

When faith in the economy goes down the price of PM goes up.

What you are seeing is the reaction to faith in the economy, which is improving daily.

I got out of the PM business several years back when gold hit nearly $2,000 and except for a few pieces of prize jewelry I will never get back in.


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## Pessimistic2

Mortblanc said:


> I hate to tell you this, and I am sure you will find a way not to believe it, but when the economy is strong or improving the prices of silver and gold go down. When faith in the economy goes down the price of PM goes up. What you are seeing is the reaction to faith in the economy, which is improving daily. I got out of the PM business several years back when gold hit nearly $2,000 and except for a few pieces of prize jewelry I will never get back in.


You got it....strong economy, PM's go down, weak economy, PM's go up. Simple as that.


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## BillM

*Hedge*



Mortblanc said:


> I hate to tell you this, and I am sure you will find a way not to believe it, but when the economy is strong or improving the prices of silver and gold go down.
> 
> When faith in the economy goes down the price of PM goes up.
> 
> What you are seeing is the reaction to faith in the economy, which is improving daily.
> 
> I got out of the PM business several years back when gold hit nearly $2,000 and except for a few pieces of prize jewelry I will never get back in.


This is what makes silver and gold the perfect hedge against a collapse of the monetary system. What you are seeing when gold drops is the dollar looking stronger against other currency's. If the euro is failing, the dollar looks strong. It doesn't mean it is really strong, just that it is the strongest kid in the kiddy pool.


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## BillS

Mortblanc said:


> I hate to tell you this, and I am sure you will find a way not to believe it, but when the economy is strong or improving the prices of silver and gold go down.
> 
> When faith in the economy goes down the price of PM goes up.
> 
> What you are seeing is the reaction to faith in the economy, which is improving daily.
> 
> I got out of the PM business several years back when gold hit nearly $2,000 and except for a few pieces of prize jewelry I will never get back in.


Sorry. All the economic numbers are fake.

The economy is in free fall. We've had negative growth quarter after quarter for years. The anemic growth is adjusted by artificially low inflation numbers so instead of a -5% GDP growth we get +.1% GDP growth. And store closings have already tripled this year.

There are about 100 million working age people out of the work force.

Real unemployment is about 40%.

Real inflation is about 10%.

There's a real estate bubble, a trillion dollar student loan bubble, and a trillion dollar bad car loan bubble. There's a looming crisis in commercial real estate with all the store closings. There's a public pension crisis. Many cities and states are experiencing severe financial problems.

The prices of gold and silver are suppressed by dumping half a year's production in paper contracts on the market all at once. And no, they'll settle those futures contracts with currency and not metal.

So why are metals prices being suppressed? To maintain faith in the dollar. The Fed is buying up real estate and the stock market to keep both of them up. PM prices would go through the roof and the dollar would tank if nothing was done.

If you go to usdebtclock.org you'll see that the dollar to gold ratio is $6753 and the dollar to silver ratio is $818.

The Fed is creating so much money that even the official deficit is such that we have monthly deficits the size of what the annual deficits used to be. That's a trillion dollars a year being created out of thin air there alone. We'd have hyperinflation right now if the money velocity wasn't at all time lows.

And we will have hyperinflation. It's a mathematical certainty. America will be like Venezuela when the rest of the world dumps the dollar in international trade. The only question is when. Jim Willie claims that Saudi Arabia is about to announce that they will accept Chinese currency for oil sales to China.

My wife and I have about 2/3 of our savings in precious metals and 1/3 in cash. We cashed out the 401k, paid the penalty, and paid off the mortgage.


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## bkt

Thank you, Bill. Unfortunately, you're dead-on correct. But thanks for posting the truth.


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## BillM

hiwall said:


> Silver and gold are down right now. If you were thinking about adding PM's to your prepps this might be a good time. Obviously PM's are not for everyone but can be a good storage of wealth for many people.
> Just thought I would bring it up for those that do not watch the PM market.


PMs are always down when the dollar is strong and up when the dollar is weak. This is what makes PMs a good hedge against the collapse of the dollar. An ounce of gold in Roman times would buy a fine toga and the best sandals to go with it. An ounce of gold today will but a fine suit , shoes and everything to go with it. The value of Gold hasn't changed when compared to the commodity's it will purchase. Currencies rise and fall in value to the commodities they will purchase.


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## Tweto

I don't have any idea how low Gold will go, but I expect it to go lower just because I just traded some dollars for gold at $1350. This happens every time I do this. I expect it to eventually climb back into the $1300.


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## BillS

There's been an explosion of money printing. Silver and gold should be exponentially higher.

According to this site:
http://www.usdebtclock.org/gold-precious-metals.html
The dollar to silver ratio is $572. The dollar to gold ratio is $4493.
I'm convinced that once price suppression ends in the PM markets we'll see prices like that. Jim Willie claims that we're only a few months away of seeing the PM markets take off.


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## FrankW

sadly I was recently forced to sell some Silver..


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## BillS

BlueZ said:


> sadly I was recently forced to sell some Silver..


That's too bad. Prices have been falling lately too. I've been fortunate. I haven't had to sell any. But half the cash savings we had at the beginning of the year are gone. My wife was off work with a knee problem. There were medical bills.

I wonder if the Fed can or will trigger another financial crisis just before the midterms. If the economy is perceived to go bad Republicans could lose big in the midterms and Trump would most likely face impeachment.


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