# Chicken Feed Post SHTF Experiment



## redhorse

I am getting a rather large amount of chickens in addition to my current flock this week. I am culling a large amount of them for meat, BUT want to experiment with different feeds that I can grow myself. I can seperate everything into flocks of 30, 15, and 15. My big flock will be left alone on the organic feed I normally buy from TSC or feed mill. The other two flocks I would like to use for this feed experiment. Here is what I am thinking:

Ex Flock 1- Table scraps and boiled rice. It was brought up in another thread, but I am curious as to how well they can do on rice as I have a large surplus of it. I want to see what their body condition will be, and if there is any difference in egg laying. (If I notice them dropping off to much I will put them back on regular feed)

Ex Flock 2- Cracked corn and table scraps? I am open to suggestions. Again looking for body condition and egg production. Will stop experiment if it is not keeping the birds in reasonabnle health. 

What would you like to see? I can try different things from month to month. In the spring/summer/fall, my birds are free range with free choice feed if they need or want it, along with oyster shells. I'm thinking the experiment birds will not get the usual supplements of oyster shells for calcium, and they are locked up for the winter to avoid frostbite. Used egg shells will be feed back as my only calcium supplement. 

Example, my suggestion of table scraps and boiled rice can be observed for a month, then changed to something else the following month. It is winter, in a SHTF situation where we can't go to the store for feed, what would we do to feed our birds? Next to goats, I find chickens to be my most important livestock. (I love my beef, but not sure I could keep them post SHTF)

I will get the additional birds next week, will keep them on normal feed for a week or so to make sure they are healthy, and then start the experiment and post updates. Table scraps involve just that, anything left over. Suffice to say this includes all of the food groups, but not in large quantities of either. The breeds used will be typical dual purpose birds. Updates will include updates for each breed used specifically. (breeds to be determined, all are typical duals) 

Anything you have a surplus of and may need to feed your girls, let me know. I am open to try anything this winter. I really want to see what happens with the rice as I have a large surplus of it stored from my early prepping days. If it works, I will store some more, but it will be nice to know either way. All thoughts welcome.


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## Grimm

I am curious about this. Can up update weekly or so so we can see how it goes?


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## redhorse

Grimm said:


> I am curious about this. Can up update weekly or so so we can see how it goes?


Will do 

I can keep my original experiment suggestions, but can modify if anyone wants to see something else.


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## BillM

*A Chicken*



redhorse said:


> I am getting a rather large amount of chickens in addition to my current flock this week. I am culling a large amount of them for meat, BUT want to experiment with different feeds that I can grow myself. I can seperate everything into flocks of 30, 15, and 15. My big flock will be left alone on the organic feed I normally buy from TSC or feed mill. The other two flocks I would like to use for this feed experiment. Here is what I am thinking:
> 
> Ex Flock 1- Table scraps and boiled rice. It was brought up in another thread, but I am curious as to how well they can do on rice as I have a large surplus of it. I want to see what their body condition will be, and if there is any difference in egg laying. (If I notice them dropping off to much I will put them back on regular feed)
> 
> Ex Flock 2- Cracked corn and table scraps? I am open to suggestions. Again looking for body condition and egg production. Will stop experiment if it is not keeping the birds in reasonabnle health.
> 
> What would you like to see? I can try different things from month to month. In the spring/summer/fall, my birds are free range with free choice feed if they need or want it, along with oyster shells. I'm thinking the experiment birds will not get the usual supplements of oyster shells for calcium, and they are locked up for the winter to avoid frostbite. Used egg shells will be feed back as my only calcium supplement.
> 
> Example, my suggestion of table scraps and boiled rice can be observed for a month, then changed to something else the following month. It is winter, in a SHTF situation where we can't go to the store for feed, what would we do to feed our birds? Next to goats, I find chickens to be my most important livestock. (I love my beef, but not sure I could keep them post SHTF)
> 
> I will get the additional birds next week, will keep them on normal feed for a week or so to make sure they are healthy, and then start the experiment and post updates. Table scraps involve just that, anything left over. Suffice to say this includes all of the food groups, but not in large quantities of either. The breeds used will be typical dual purpose birds. Updates will include updates for each breed used specifically. (breeds to be determined, all are typical duals)
> 
> Anything you have a surplus of and may need to feed your girls, let me know. I am open to try anything this winter. I really want to see what happens with the rice as I have a large surplus of it stored from my early prepping days. If it works, I will store some more, but it will be nice to know either way. All thoughts welcome.


Chickens are like hogs. They will eat anything.

If you buy a wood chipper, you can feed them Looters !


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## redhorse

BillM said:


> Chickens are like hogs. They will eat anything.
> 
> If you buy a wood chipper, you can feed them Looters !


Good tip  But I think I will save my petro products for the tractor and chain saw lol. The hogs can have the looters whole 

The point will be what is the bare minimum the chickens can get by on to stay healthy and productive. I'm sure I could feed them anything I have canned, but in TEOTWAWKI I want to keep my more nutritious and varied food stores for myself and crew (still working on the crew).


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## Grimm

redhorse said:


> Good tip  But I think I will save my petro products for the tractor and chain saw lol. The hogs can have the looters whole
> 
> The point will be what is the bare minimum the chickens can get by on to stay healthy and productive. I'm sure I could feed them anything I have canned, but in TEOTWAWKI I want to keep my more nutritious and varied food stores for myself and crew (still working on the crew).


Roo and I would make great farm hands! Actually, she'd play in the mud instead of work...


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## FatTire

Ill definately be following this thread, Im especialy curious about egg production. I expect youd get some variance just due to changing their diet? Not sure how sensitive they are...


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## redhorse

Grimm said:


> Roo and I would make great farm hands! Actually, she'd play in the mud instead of work...


I wish you lived closer than the other side of the continent  I can make it there in a few months by horseback! :flower:


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## redhorse

FatTire said:


> Ill definately be following this thread, Im especialy curious about egg production. I expect youd get some variance just due to changing their diet? Not sure how sensitive they are...


I always notice a variance with changes to their feed, weather, or time of year.

That's why I said I'd feed them normally for a week or so. It may run into two weeks, but I will keep everyone updated. The experiments will go for at least a month minimum depening on if anyone wants to see something else attempted, and the birds stay healthy.

**** Side note: Egg production is usually lower in the winter, once I get a feel for what they can do on average this time of year, I will start the experiment. Also, there will be one rooster per 15 bird flock. Each flock will be in 10X10 horse stalls with temporary roost poles and layer boxes set up.

I think this is a good time of year to try this as I have little problem keeping them fat and happy in the warmer months.


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## Tirediron

In your milder climate it should be possible to grow grain, like oats and barley, and just cut the heads off the plant, to feed the chickens, the remaining straw could be used to for bedding, and finally composted. the labour input should be well under the return. and provide for more of a closed loop system


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## goshengirl

Great project. 

I'm curious along Tirediron's line of thinking. DH and I would like to get to a point where we grow our own grains to feed the girls, but we have much to look into in terms of nutrition (at a time when we're unable to supplement them with regular feed). Which grains work the best, how easy are they to grow, what would we need beyond grains, etc. Do you grow any of your own grains? You probably have similar growing conditions to me, seeing as we're in the same state - are you a 6 or a 5? I'm sure that goes beyond the scope of your experiment (yeah, redhorse, can you just grow some of your own grains and try them on your girls? lol) - just thinking out loud, so to speak.

One thing I wonder about with your plans - in a SHTF world, will there be any table scraps? :dunno:


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## Country Living

I didn't see any provision for free-ranging. Our chickens need minimal supplemental feed in spring, summer, and early fall because they have all kinds of goodies from which to choose. It's a bit weird to watch a chicken snag a grasshopper, disable it, and swallow it whole. Some of those grasshoppers are pretty darn big. The chickens also have a wide range of vegetation from which to choose and that makes them happy. They do love to forage.

Besides being great pest control, they also provide free fertilizer. An added bonus is the rooster is on constant sentry. He alerts on anything out of the ordinary.

I open the coop right after sunrise and they go back in just before sunset. They use the nesting boxes in the coop so I don't have to play hide-and-seek.


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## redhorse

Country Living said:


> I didn't see any provision for free-ranging. Our chickens need minimal supplemental feed in spring, summer, and early fall because they have all kinds of goodies from which to choose. It's a bit weird to watch a chicken snag a grasshopper, disable it, and swallow it whole. Some of those grasshoppers are pretty darn big. The chickens also have a wide range of vegetation from which to choose and that makes them happy. They do love to forage.
> 
> Besides being great pest control, they also provide free fertilizer. An added bonus is the rooster is on constant sentry. He alerts on anything out of the ordinary.
> 
> I open the coop right after sunrise and they go back in just before sunset. They use the nesting boxes in the coop so I don't have to play hide-and-seek.


I did state the experiment was only for the winter, as mine are free range during the 'green' months' also. I'm with you on opening the coop at dawn and closingthe door at dusk. They used to just roost in the barn rafters, so they came and went as they pleased. They always have access to feed, even in good weather, but prefer to be out foraging on their own, so I don't go through a whole lot of feed during the green times. In the winter, I am dependent on store bought feed.

Goshengirl, we have grown our own field/feed/hard/cow corn, however it is called in your area. But that is with the help of tractors. I am planning on not having that for a while, possibly never. We have not planted field corn in many years, only sweet in the garden. I have a plow that is meant for the four wheeler/lawn tractor, that I would like to convert to horse or ox drawn. It is only a single plow, so a big tractor won't be needed.

Either way, I do not want to depend on it for a long term situation at the moment. In a true SHTF, I think the first year we will need to depend on what we have stored heavily. At the very least I am planning for a first year crop loss.

Maybe I can stager some field corn against sweet corn next year. I have the room. Maybe another project for the gardening section. All by hand and animal power? We shall see.


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## haley4217

I am in my fourth year of SHTF chicken prepping and have been experimenting to be prepared to keep my flock producing and growing if my supply of feed is interrupted. My first suggestion is to get a grinder that can be used to crack whole kernel corn. First, whole kernel corn if you live in an area where deer hunters use feeders, can be purchased cheaper than cracked corn at the end of deer season. The whole kernel corn will last almost indefinitely verses a much short shelf life after it's been cracked. Durning the winter, it's mild where I live, I give my flock of 15 hens and four roosters about six cups per day (three in AM and three in PM). With egg production very low they are able to keep their health and body weight up with just what extra they can get by foraging. Just a tip, I keep a few cans of cat food on hand to feed any individual that might start getting sick or needs energy to overcome a high protein demand for injury, molting or illness.

I also give the flock kitchen scraps, not table scraps. Pieces of bread, egg shells, trimmings from vegetables, left over rice or pasta. I don't give them meat on lumpy because I don't want any meat scraps that are not eaten to attract raccoons or foxes. 

I'm also lead to believe, and as such don't give them, vegetables which could be harmful such as onions and potatoes. I spread the scraps out in the garden and let them scratch through them. This also attracts bugs which add to the protein smorgasbord.

Finally, grain with the exception of corn can be labor intensive and land intensive to grow and harvest. During the growing season a few tomato plants or even better squash plants that are devoted to an area where the chickens are allowed to forage can go a long way to feeding the flock and giving them the nutrition during egg production season.

I believe that you'll find that the flock that's getting corn or grain along with scraps and forage will do as well or better than the flock on commercial feed. Just remember to hive the flock not on commercial feed a source of calcium, usually from the egg shells in the scraps. 

My .02 for what it's worth.


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> In your milder climate it should be possible to grow grain, like oats and barley, and just cut the heads off the plant, to feed the chickens, the remaining straw could be used to for bedding, and finally composted. the labour input should be well under the return. and provide for more of a closed loop system


 Good idea. I was wondering what happens when the rice runs out for everybody.

I think keep your fall leaves piled up and throw some green on it when you can. Most important keep the soil covered, maybe some worms will set up housekeeping. Also insects love piles of leaves. And you can grow crops in it too. Our chickens love clover and certain wild weeds.


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## redhorse

haley4217 said:


> I am in my fourth year of SHTF chicken prepping and have been experimenting to be prepared to keep my flock producing and growing if my supply of feed is interrupted. My first suggestion is to get a grinder that can be used to crack whole kernel corn. First, whole kernel corn if you live in an area where deer hunters use feeders, can be purchased cheaper than cracked corn at the end of deer season. The whole kernel corn will last almost indefinitely verses a much short shelf life after it's been cracked. Durning the winter, it's mild where I live, I give my flock of 15 hens and four roosters about six cups per day (three in AM and three in PM). With egg production very low they are able to keep their health and body weight up with just what extra they can get by foraging. Just a tip, I keep a few cans of cat food on hand to feed any individual that might start getting sick or needs energy to overcome a high protein demand for injury, molting or illness.
> 
> I also give the flock kitchen scraps, not table scraps. Pieces of bread, egg shells, trimmings from vegetables, left over rice or pasta. I don't give them meat on lumpy because I don't want any meat scraps that are not eaten to attract raccoons or foxes.
> 
> I'm also lead to believe, and as such don't give them, vegetables which could be harmful such as onions and potatoes. I spread the scraps out in the garden and let them scratch through them. This also attracts bugs which add to the protein smorgasbord.
> 
> Finally, grain with the exception of corn can be labor intensive and land intensive to grow and harvest. During the growing season a few tomato plants or even better squash plants that are devoted to an area where the chickens are allowed to forage can go a long way to feeding the flock and giving them the nutrition during egg production season.
> 
> I believe that you'll find that the flock that's getting corn or grain along with scraps and forage will do as well or better than the flock on commercial feed. Just remember to hive the flock not on commercial feed a source of calcium, usually from the egg shells in the scraps.
> 
> My .02 for what it's worth.


Thanks for the tips Haley. I think that we are on the same wavelength. I do have an old hand crank grain grinder, but I am am doing the experiment for a scenerio where I can't grow grains, and have to feed the flock out of my stores, specifically through winter, when there is little or no forage available to support them. Also, if it comes to me eating rice or corn bread, I', going with corn bread  I just want to see the minimums I need for them. What if the corn crop is planted, but then raided? Or just naturaly?

I've had chickens for about 15 years. They have always got table scraps. If anything is harmful to them, it must be minimal, I've never had any issues. I do make sure they never receive chocolate or avacado. Onions and potatoes don't seem to have ever bothered them in anyway. I will say they have never be fed onions and tates on a daily basis.

I like your idea for planting squash and maters for extra forage. I'll try that next year  But again, the experiment is for the winter months, or times when forage and supplemental grains are not an option.


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## Plainsman

I haven't raised chickens yet, but when I do I'm curious if they would feed on the mulberries dropped by the numerous mature mulberry trees on my property. I've made jelly and juice out of them but most of the fruit either rots or is consumed by wild birds and probably raccoons and possums.

I'm thinking in terms of a mobile chicken coop I could drag from one mulberry tree to another, during the summer weeks when they're in bearing.


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## Dakine

BillM said:


> Chickens are like hogs. They will eat anything.
> 
> If you buy a wood chipper, you can feed them Looters !


dammit! I did not need another appliance to buy!


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## cowboyhermit

I will be interested to see the results, two things I have never fed chickens as a staple.
The big question imo will be whether they get enough protein, eggs have quite a bit and while chickens are really effective at making it they still need the raw materials (N). Our dogs and cats get all our "meaty" scraps but I think they vary a lot from household to household, maybe they will get a protein boost there, certainly vitamins. A little bit of oats, or other high protein grain might make a big difference but it should be a interesting experiment.


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## talob

A good thread, I've got a dozen birds two are roosters, right now the girls have all but stoped putting out if I were only looking at the eggs it would be a lot cheaper to just go out and buy eggs. They free range but this time of year they still go through quite a bit of scratch feed, I also have wondered how they would fare in a SHTF situation I do know I'd be guarding them a lot closer while they're out ranging have lost a few to coyotes, unless you had a lot of feed you couldent keep em pennd and I believe predators four and two legged would be more of a problem.


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## LincTex

BillM said:


> Chickens are like hogs. They will eat anything.


*That doesn't work with layers.*

Rice and corn are just *"carbs"*.... very little protein and other nutrients.

Egg layers need a lot more protein than regular meat chickens... 
you don't get somethin' for nuthin' ya know!!!

Egg layers also need calcium, or you will get thin shells... 
I have even seen NO SHELLS!! (very leathery)

I use a variety of animal/insect (maggot) based proteins as well as peanut products and whey products to supplement the little bit of natural proteins in grains. I also use _some_ soy protein sparingly, but only if no other sources are available. I would like to try fish based protein sources if I can find a source.

I have plenty of naturally occurring limestone available for calcium, but I did buy a 50 lb bag of crushed oyster shells for them to pick at their leisure, but it will last me ten years at the rate they use it. I also dry and grind all old egg shells for them to pick at, and they like them.


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## LincTex

talob said:


> They free range..... I also have wondered how they would fare in a SHTF situation I do know I'd be guarding them a lot closer while they're out ranging have lost a few to coyotes, unless you had a lot of feed you couldent keep em pennd and I believe predators four and two legged would be more of a problem.


Feral dogs get mine pretty regularly.

...and if it's as bad as it is now (pre-SHTF) I can't imagine how many I would have to shoot when they are all turned loose because no one can feed them.


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## cowboyhermit

Dairy products can be a great supplement for chickens, looong history of successful use. Depending on the type it can be a good-great source of protein, calcium, and the important fat soluble vitamins A,D&E. It is best not to feed plain milk because they can't digest the lactose, much better is to let it sour naturally (unpasteurized), make yogurt, or use by-products.

Feral dogs might also make a decent protein supplement


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> Feral dogs might also make a decent protein supplement


Yes, they do - - as well as possums and raccoons.

I think I need additional ideas for processing them, though.

Here's the maggot bucket for chickens:

http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Feeding-Chickens-Maggots.html


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## BillM

*Egg production*



FatTire said:


> Ill definately be following this thread, Im especialy curious about egg production. I expect youd get some variance just due to changing their diet? Not sure how sensitive they are...


OK Fat tire: This is how it works.

First , when a Rooster and a Hen love each other very much, the Rooster gives the Hen a special hug and Bada Boom, Bada Bing, a chicken is hatched !


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## redhorse

BillM said:


> OK Fat tire: This is how it works.
> 
> First , when a Rooster and a Hen love each other very much, the Rooster gives the Hen a special hug and Bada Boom, Bada Bing, a chicken is hatched !


Actually the hens lay eggs regardless if there is a roo around or not 

Linc, I love the bucket idea. Definitly going to try it once the bugs come out next year! Thanks for sharing


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## LincTex

FatTire said:


> Ill definately be following this thread, Im especialy curious about egg production. I expect youd get some variance just due to changing their diet? Not sure how sensitive they are...


You know.... the variety of egg sizes, and shapes - - and coloration, and even the _color of the yolks_ seems to be *always changing*. I couldn't nail down one variable if I tried.

I only have 6 adults currently laying consistently right now, and if I fill an old dozen egg carton with what they lay in 2-3 days time, no two eggs look the same EVER.

I suppose diet plays a part? They sure do lay a "hodge-podge".



redhorse said:


> Linc, I love the bucket idea. Definitely going to try it once the bugs come out next year! Thanks for sharing


I need something to do with carcasses when no flies are out. Best I can come up with is cut up and dehydrate? Still very leery about that, though.... Maybe cook and then dehydrate, then grind into powder and mix with their feed?

I DO own a pellet mill (yep, it's OK to envy me!!) but the only dies I have are 7mm (1/4") and the pellets it makes are a good size for wood pellets - - - but too big for feed. I keep wanting to order a set of 4mm-5mm dies but it always ends up on the back burner. Once that FINALLY does happen, maybe I can get into the feed-pellet-making business


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## Tirediron

Oats are a great source of protein, and could be harvested by hand fairly easily, on a chicken feeding scale anyway.


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## jeff47041

I have my chicken house ready, and just recently bought the fencing materials. I'll finally be getting my hens this spring. Can't wait to hear the results of your tests.

I always just figured if SHTF, I would feed them oats, field corn, and scraps. I'll appreciate knowing some other things.


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## *Andi

History folks ... Just take a look.

Best of luck with the test and the op.


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## LincTex

*Andi said:


> History folks ... Just take a look.


Care to expand on this with some examples?


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## NavaBoer

I don't milk my goats much as they aren't a dairy breed but I've read on the forums that feeding the hoof milk (milk that's accidentally been stepped in) to the chickens is a great source of nutrition. Also I'm sure milk that's going sour could probably be given to them as well. When we had chickens we would grow squash/pumpkins wherever we could and store them in a cool place like a shop or cellar and feed them though out the winter.


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## *Andi

LincTex said:


> Care to expand on this with some examples?


It is history ... We know how they were tended to in the past. It is a fact that they made if from the east coast to the west on the back of a wagon. (With no special feeds)

My point... they are some rather hardy chicken breeds out there (that given half a chance) They may surprise a number of folks.


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## Hooch

I gave my hens some of the acorn meal I made..they liked it just fine and no ill results. 

If I leave my screen door open my hens will walk in the house...make themselves comphy and eat all the dog and cat food...they know where the bowls are and have no issue shooing the dog or cat away for it.


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## cowboyhermit

*Andi said:


> My point... they are some rather hardy chicken breeds out there (that given half a chance) They may surprise a number of folks.


FWIW, Orpingtons are not always considered especially "hardy" but my hens are in a "new" coop that didn't get setup all that great this winter. There is no heat of course, just a thick layer of bedding that is composting a bit inside, but they still wander around in the fenced area outside in -40. They have backed off laying quite a bit, but we do nothing to encourage them to lay more most of the time (more hens than we need). Anyways, they are doing fine and all they are getting right now is whole oats and whole barley, free choice oyster shells. We will probably start giving them some more goodies soon, just because it will help them out now that there is nothing for them to forage and because we will probably try for chicks in the spring, but not because they "need" it.


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## Salekdarling

Grimm said:


> Roo and I would make great farm hands! Actually, she'd play in the mud instead of work...


Looks like it's time to fire Roo.


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## LincTex

*Andi said:


> We know how they were tended to in the past.


Some do, many don't - - a lot of the folks on this forum are here to learn those old ways... many of which are forgotten, and few here are still familiar with.



*Andi said:


> there are some rather hardy chicken breeds out there


Sadly enough, they are becoming less and less common because (due to their hardiness) they are not "top-performers" in their class.


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## LincTex

Hooch said:


> I gave my hens some of the acorn meal I made..


Our trees make small acorns, just a little larger than peas. Our hens tear them open and eat the pieces inside.

I have to put all the dog/cat food away or the hens will run *straight* to it when I let them out!!


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## siletz

We have also been on a similar quest these past couple of years to see just how much of our chicken's food can come from our property. A wonderful book on this topic is: Harvey Ussery's "The Small-Scale Poultry Flock" 
http://www.amazon.com/The-Small-Sca...&qid=1386608276&sr=8-1&keywords=harvey+ussery

Any type of winter squash makes a great feed through the winter. You just need to chop it in half and throw it at them. Also, field corn can be left on the cob and given to them that way. Just make sure not to plant your field corn next to your sweet corn as it will make your sweet corn tough. We are experimenting with camelina now with good results so far.


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## Hooch

I plan on collecting acorns now in quanity..even if just for the hens  

They also really like hotdogs and I figure it's a cheap and nice protien boost for them especially when it's cold or they are molting...

I've noticed since it's been cold outside with the artic air we all been getting the girls stand at the back door begging to get inside. I kinda feel for them..one day I cracked open the door and they all piled in practically running over one another..ate all the dog food like normal and took a seat on the floor in the laundry room. I was curious to see how long they'd stay..I only have 4 hens..anyways..after 10 minutes I shooed them out with a oatmeal treat. 

One time I came inside the house to find my RI Red hen, Buddie perched on the countertop eating the dog food I was cooking up out of the stock pot with the dog cleaning up all the bit's of dog food the bird was dropping and splattering about. It was a pretty funny sight and 3 good things came of it..

One was I had to clean the kitchen up good, clean kitchens are always a good thing. I also finally installed the screen door onto the back door and I discovered my dog alone with a chicken and not killing it. That was a milestone in my dogs learning that the hens are part of our " pack". :flower:


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## goshengirl

Hooch said:


> That was a milestone in my dogs learning that the hens are part of our " pack". :flower:


Whenever we try to tell our dog something/someone is part of his pack, he gives us a woeful look as if he's saying, "I don't know about this. I've got a really strange looking pack..." lol


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## *Andi

LincTex said:


> Some do, many don't - - a lot of the folks on this forum are here to learn those old ways... many of which are forgotten, and few here are still familiar with.
> 
> I guess I give the folks here a little more credit. (and common sense.) We did have life before the 1960's and Wal-Mart... I hope they think along the same line as the OP and say that they need to look into making their own feed.
> 
> Sadly enough, they are becoming less and less common because (due to their hardiness) they are not "top-performers" in their class.


With this I also do not agree ... most studies show folk are looking for the heirloom/heritage breeds. The Modern game, buckeye and dominique are making a big come back. (per the reports I've been looking at)
~ Heirloom this or that ... are very cool.  (today )

Best of luck to the op ...


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## LincTex

*Andi said:


> ... are making a big come back. (per the reports I've been looking at)


I guess I am just a "mainstreamer" then. All of the people in this area, as well as a lot of the back yard chickens types, are not into heirlooms.

They often buy whatever chicks they can get at TSC or Craigslist.

I do however, plan to hatch whatever eggs will hatch. I have a *BEAUTIFUL* Buff Orp/Wellsummer cross Roo' that I am hoping will be the daddy of many interesting birds!!


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## redhorse

I just want to clear up what I am doing the experiment for. I want to see if they will do ok being fed on staples that I have stored in excess for a SHTF scenario where it is in the winter and there is no forage or crops to feed them. Or in the case that crops were lost, winter is coming, and I still need to make sure they have something to eat, and hopefully still produce.  

I have a TON of rice. They always get table scraps, and do get egg shells fed back. My current flock always has free choice oyster shells for a calcium supplement. The new birds will not get this, only egg shells for my little experiment, again thinking along the lines that it will someday run out. I'm sure a crushed bone supplement could be used for that though. 

We are getting the extra flock this weekend. There are also a few (6?) turkeys and peacocks. No idea on age. What on earth am I going to do with a peacock? I know they are related to turkeys, but doubt they have much meat on them. And I don't have anywhere to really stick them except to maybe use another horse stall and put chicken wire over the top. They will most likely still go in the pot, no matter how pretty they are. I need my stall space.


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## cowboyhermit

Andi and LincTex, I think it is a mixed bag. In most places from what I have seen or heard "backyard" chickens have made quite an impact, most of what I have seen them getting are heritage breeds, while the "traditional" breeds like leghorns or hybrids are rarely chosen. The modern cornish cross seems to be doing better with small scale as far as meat birds go. The last time I ordered Orpingtons from a "major" hatchery here (more than twice the cost of standard breeds) they had a waiting list so long that they stopped taking orders, even the hens were spoken for. The heritage breeds were raised in a separate facility from the "traditional" breeds and the market had expanded within the last few years to the point where there was no more room.

On the other hand the vast majority of people with chickens these days seem to have taken to feeding their chickens just like any other "pet", they buy a bag of complete ration from the store, many don't get any scraps at all. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just most people seem to not even have any real idea what is in that bag or what they would do without it


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## LincTex

redhorse said:


> I have a TON of rice.



Save the rice for you
Find a local farmers or grain elevator/feed place
buy oats or barley in bulk and store that in plastic drums

Rice is empty calories for your birds and isn't cost effective. 
Oats or barley can be stored nearly forever, and are darn cheap


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> .... the vast majority of people with chickens... buy a bag of complete ration from the store, many don't get any scraps at all.


I force mine to eat layer pellets (which they are getting tired of eating) when hungry until they are full before they get any treats to pick at. If I don't do that, I end up with thin shelled eggs.

They always go for the "junk food" first!


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## goshengirl

I'm really looking forward to how your experiment works, redhorse.


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## Locutus

Suggestion:
If you have access to inexpensive sproutable feed seed in bulk (bird feed, grain, alfalfa, field peas, etc.), why not try supplementing your chickens' regular feed with a seven bucket sprouting rotation? (Seven buckets for a seven-day sprouting cycle.) You'll produce many times the weight of the seeds in sprouts, with improved nutritional properties.


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## goshengirl

Locutus said:


> Suggestion:
> If you have access to inexpensive sproutable feed seed in bulk (bird feed, grain, alfalfa, field peas, etc.), why not try supplementing your chickens' regular feed with a seven bucket sprouting rotation? (Seven buckets for a seven-day sprouting cycle.) You'll produce many times the weight of the seeds in sprouts, with improved nutritional properties.


That is something I have been meaning to do (just for general feeding, not part of a SHTF scenario/experiment). I've thought of wheat and alfalfa (stuff we can grow), but I never thought to sprout just plain old bird feed. Thanks for the tip! :2thumb:


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## cowboyhermit

LincTex said:


> Rice is empty calories for your birds and isn't cost effective.


I agree that rice is probably not the best thing to buy, but it is one of those things that is pretty cheap in stores and available in bulk everywhere. Funny how people don't seem to mind feeding those "empty calories" to their kids:ignore: (sorry, not a rice fan here) It would be good to see how they do on it because if we had some bags of rice they would just as likely go to the chickens, I haven't cooked rice myself in years (I use wild rice and some of the fancy mixtures on occasion). It might be worth mentioning that other stored foods could be used to keep chickens healthy, especially anything that might be old, stale, bug infested, or due to be rotated. Flour, rolled oats, cornmeal, powdered milk, etc can all be given to the birds. Not that economical, but in a pinch or as an alternative to throwing it away it can make sense.



LincTex said:


> I force mine to eat layer pellets (which they are getting tired of eating) when hungry until they are full before they get any treats to pick at. If I don't do that, I end up with thin shelled eggs.
> 
> They always go for the "junk food" first!


I have the opposite problem, when I give pellets or crumbles they just scatter it everywhere, they hate it I have to mix it in with grain.


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## goshengirl

cowboyhermit said:


> I have the opposite problem, when I give pellets or crumbles they just scatter it everywhere, they hate it I have to mix it in with grain.


Same here. It feels the same as when I bribe my children. "Here, let me put some cheese on those veggies for you, you'll love them..."


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> I have the opposite problem, when I give pellets or crumbles they just scatter it everywhere, they hate it I have to mix it in with grain.


It's the same exact problem I have, they will NOT eat the pellets if something else that is tastier is in the area. I can't even mix the pellets with grain; their beaks are amazingly precise and they can peck out all the grain easily and avoid the pellets entirely. I don't do crumbles because about half is always wasted.

I feed them pellets when they are hungry because they _have to_ eat them. Once they have had their fill, I'll toss in some grains for dessert 

Side note: I have a line on some pellet machine dies the size I need for $150. My main customer for wood heat pellets dried up, so I need to "re-purpose" the machine. Now I need a supply of oats or barley; I can only get wheat and corn easily right now.


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## siletz

I have not given my girls chicken feed pellets for a couple of years now. I decided that the first step in trying to see how much of their food I could grow for them is in knowing the base ingredients of what they eat. I had thought that store-bought was somehow better than what I could provide, but was surprised to discover just the opposite. I still buy most of the base ingredients, but I can stock up since whole seeds don't go stale like the pellets do. For me, it's been a good transition.


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## Bathouse

siletz said:


> I still buy most of the base ingredients,


What mixture of ingredients do you usually use?

Chickens might survive on rice/table scraps, but they can't thrive without the proper balance of nutrients. I don't think the experiment will go well unless you can match the protein/carb/fat/vitamin/mineral mixture of commercial feed.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/smallflocks/Nutrition.html


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## LincTex

Bathouse said:


> I don't think the experiment will go well unless you can match the protein/carb/fat/vitamin/mineral mixture of commercial feed.


Chickens have a great ability to "survive"; but they will not perform to expectations unless all the "building blocks are in place".

Worst case scenarios generally do not see the chickens dying unless they are severely malnourished..... but you will find far lower weight gain and speed of growth for meats ... and fewer eggs produced from layers when one (or more) of the "building blocks" is missing.


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## siletz

Bathouse said:


> What mixture of ingredients do you usually use?


Right now, they're getting wheat, corn, oats, field peas, soy, and alfalfa. I also give them a little vitamin supplement powder.


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## Wellrounded

We don't feed commercial feed to our chickens. We keep heritage breeds and I expect at least 5 eggs a week per hen over summer and 3 or more in the cooler months. Here with our mild winters the month the birds hatched/began laying is the key to winter laying patterns. Hens that begin laying in autumn will keep laying for us through winter and hens that begin laying in spring will stop/slow laying in winter. We hatch at both times.
We feed whole wheat/triticale, whatever other seeds/grains we have on hand at the time, ad lib supplements (seaweed meal, meat meal, lime are the basics). Other feeds they get are farm yoghurt, insects (maggots and termites), greens cut from the grass path in the vege patch as well as fine weeds, kitchen scraps including some meat (except chicken and only other meat grown on the farm), fat porridge (fat mixed with rolled oats or RICE and a handful of other grains), lucerne chaff if we are short of weeds etc, we also grow a range of plants that they will pick at depending on their dietary needs at the time. 
We lock our poultry up a lot as we breed by blood line, it's not unusual for them to spend more than 6 months of the year penned. We want our birds in top condition not just to lay eggs but to lay GOOD eggs with high fertility and good nutrition = high hatch rates. My daughter runs a small business on the farm hatching heritage breeds of chicken, duck, turkeys and geese, she hatches about 300 eggs a month, we're good at this feeding/breeding stuff. 
If we have a drop off in egg production we look at other health issues like worms, mites and lice and usually find that's the problem. Just a few mites will see a drop in laying and it will certainly effect broodiness. 
Most of our feed can/is produced on farm. We don't have a good source of calcium so we stockpile lime, the cows convert it to milk and the chickens get it as yoghurt as well as eat it directly. Seaweed meal is convenient but mixed greens including things like nettles and comfrey (dried or they don't like it) can supply most of what they need. Wheat we buy in 8 ton lots, we keep a total of 16 ton when full and let it drop to 8 ton before buying more, 8 ton goes a long way here and in a SHTF situation it would last longer as we would cull down to only what we really need. Bonus to this is the wheat is good for grinding for the kitchen


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Food for thought.
I had a very large aquarium at one time and kept 5-6 chicks at a time in my bedroom until well after full feathered.
When all was said and done I had learned to make the death scream of a chicken.
This had the effect of causing the entire group to explode which was scary to a predator a few times.
I had also learned the purr putt sound of all is well.
This sound from me personally would keep the entire flock calm under all but the worst circumstances.
I had the peep peep peep peep putt sound to come to me [ no hurry ]
PEEP! PEEP! PEEP! PEEP! screaming sound [run to me for your life] which was very useful.
All my hens would follow me if able [ like rowdy baby ducks ].
They would all step into my hand after being called.
They would ride on my shoulder [ think pirate farmer].
This and only this group of hens developed a trick to feed themselves.
Several of them [3-4?] would collect grain and pile it in the center of their yard and not eat it 1 real bully hen would keep the dumb ones from eating that small handfull pile they built.
They would scatter around drowsing and taking dirt baths, When a squirrel came near they all appeared asleep to me.
Untill the squirrell was in their yard eating and BOOM! the whole flock attacked on the cue of the bully hen.
It was rare for a squirrel to get out alive the largest rats NEVER made it out.
Being sick and having a TV camera in the barn was very interesting.
I would sure like to hear anybody else verify this behavior ???
I guess the point here is a mature multigenerational flock [32 hens] is not as helpless as I thought.


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## UncleJoe

I came across this fellow's experiment this morning.


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## crabapple

Could not believe it when I heard about "Free Range chickens".
We just let them run wild & gather egg when we heard the hens cackle.
We would miss some , but still sold 5- or so dozen a week, alone with cows milk & butter.
Never pinned them up or feed them.
Did have some sex-links for a few years & had them in a pen, because they could not fly or roost in trees.


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## redhorse

I finally got the new birds this past weekend. It only ended up being 31 instead of 46. I have 26 hens total, the rest were roosters, and will be getting butchered. I'm going to let them be for a week or so and let them settle into their new routine before I start. I'll post some pics if the sun ever comes out again. Its to dark to get a super good pic of them. They are a tad under weight at the moment, as they weren't getting much care for the past few weeks. 

Again, my girls are free range for the most part, but do have free choice pellets at all times if they want them. The experiment is to see if they will do ok on what I have on hand stored, especially in the winter, when there is little to no forage available to them. Lots of good suggestions have been posted on this thread, but rice is what I currently have a lot of, so that is what I am going to try for the time being. It's something I've been curious about for some time. I know it is not the best option, but who knows, it could end up being the only option some day, so I'd like to have an idea of what to expect. 

Growing and harvesting their grain at home is rather inconvienent at the moment with a full time job and everything else going on, but is something I am able to accomplish if required. I am no stranger to farming  But crops can fail or be destroyed, so a back up plan is a must for me. I still love the maggot bucket idea too


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## Tirediron

I don't know if you are close to any grain farmers, and better yet a seed cleaning plant, seed screenings can usually be bought cheap and should pretty much store forever in 5 gallon pails.


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## piglett

LincTex said:


> Feral dogs get mine pretty regularly.
> 
> ...and if it's as bad as it is now (pre-SHTF) I can't imagine how many I would have to shoot when they are all turned loose because no one can feed them.


i hope plenty of dogs show up
i'll process them & my hens will be fat & happy


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## Grimm

LincTex said:


> Yes, they do - - as well as possums and raccoons.
> 
> I think I need additional ideas for processing them, though.
> 
> Here's the maggot bucket for chickens:
> 
> http://www.themodernhomestead.us/article/Feeding-Chickens-Maggots.html


Couldn't you feed them red wrigglers from a worm compost bin? They double in population every 6 weeks, can be dried for long storage and will eat the kitchen scraps you don't feed your chickens.


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## Wellrounded

Grimm said:


> Couldn't you feed them red wrigglers from a worm compost bin? They double in population every 6 weeks, can be dried for long storage and will eat the kitchen scraps you don't feed your chickens.


We have been making on the ground worm beds for the last 6 months or so. We get scrap from the local feed mill, mix in a bit of green waste/weeds etc, wet down and cover with straw. Within a week or two it will be more worms than muck and when the worms have eaten their way through most of it we turn the chickens in to eat them and spread the worm castings. Very little work for a huge reward....

Here's a pic of the soil created by this process, I can stick my hands about 3 inches into it without a shovel. 6 feet away you can't dent the ground with a pickax. This has chickens on it now, they haven't eaten any of the grains I have available to them for the two weeks they have been in this area.

Sorry the pic is so bad, getting dark out.


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## Grimm

Wellrounded said:


> We have been making on the ground worm beds for the last 6 months or so. We get scrap from the local feed mill, mix in a bit of green waste/weeds etc, wet down and cover with straw. Within a week or two it will be more worms than muck and when the worms have eaten their way through most of it we turn the chickens in to eat them and spread the worm castings. Very little work for a huge reward....
> 
> Here's a pic of the soil created by this process, I can stick my hands about 3 inches into it without a shovel. 6 feet away you can't dent the ground with a pickax. This has chickens on it now, they haven't eaten any of the grains I have available to them for the two weeks they have been in this area.
> 
> Sorry the pic is so bad, getting dark out.


So, it is a good idea. I'm with Redhorse in trying to figure out a protein source for the chickens during the winter months and for when SHTF. I figured the worms could be an alternative to a maggot bucket.


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## goshengirl

We have a piece of hard black plastic (I think it's part of a car interior) left on our property courtesy of the previous homeowners. Turn it over, and lots of roly-poly bugs are always underneath. My son collects them and brings them into the chicken run (he has to grab them fast when the plastic is turned over, as they disappear quick). We haven't done this during the winter time, but we should at least try it - it's an incredibly simple way of finding bugs for the girls (and boy). Something similar could be a way of supplementing a rice (plus) diet for chickens if the SHTF.


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## Meerkat

I know my chickens love clover. It grows here in shady spots. Worm bin sounds good too. Table scraps.


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## airdrop

I took spaghetti squach from the garden an leftover tomatos and other stuff that wouldn't be used : they loved it. Man they eat every bit of that stuff to lol. Japanese beetles go over big to I found out


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## LincTex

goshengirl said:


> We have a piece of hard black plastic (I think it's part of a car interior) left on our property courtesy of the previous homeowners. Turn it over, and lots of roly-poly bugs are always underneath. My son collects them and brings them into the chicken run (he has to grab them fast when the plastic is turned over, as they disappear quick). We haven't done this during the winter time, but we should at least try it - it's an incredibly simple way of finding bugs for the girls (and boy). Something similar could be a way of supplementing a rice (plus) diet for chickens if the SHTF.


My chickens will not eat wood lice (rolly polly bugs)... I have old scraps of plywood in the pen area that will collect 100's of them underneath. I flip them over and the chooks eat one or two and move on....


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## goshengirl

LincTex said:


> My chickens will not eat wood lice (rolly polly bugs)... I have old scraps of plywood in the pen area that will collect 100's of them underneath. I flip them over and the chooks eat one or two and move on....


Our older girls ate them last summer, but your post makes me wonder if we were just lucky that way. Maybe our new girls won't. :dunno: (We were down to three girls due to a raccoon breech, so we added six more girls and a roo just a few weeks ago - they're a lively bunch.) I'm hoping it works, as it would be a great way to get rid of those buggers! lol


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## LincTex

goshengirl said:


> Our older girls ate them last summer, but your post makes me wonder if we were just lucky that way. Maybe our new girls won't. :dunno:


My girls don't like store bought layer pellets very much.... so when they prefer layer pellets to wood lice, that tells me something!!!

Maybe they taste like rotten damp wood... yuck.


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## Grimm

Okay, Red, two questions.

#1 WHERE the F*** have you been!?!?!

#2 What is the news with this experiment?


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## goshengirl

I've missed Red. I think she had a lot of irons in the fire - hopefully she'll find a moment to touch base.


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## TheLazyL

cowboyhermit said:


> ...I have the opposite problem, when I give pellets or crumbles they just scatter it everywhere...


Mine scatter it too. And I will not refill the feeder until they have eaten all the feed they scattered! They clean it up very well.


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