# Am I a sheeple or a wulf?



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

So, I gotta admit that the .50 Beowulf on Doomsday preppers caught my attention the other day. Now I don't want to get scolded by the Admins so this is not about the gun itself, but about its usefulness to a prepper. I have always wanted a .50BMG for taking out engine blocks, if necessary, but when I learned about the .50Beowulf I was intrigued, because there is in reality nowhere on my property or near my property where I would be taking a shot at a distance greater than 200meters. And so I was wondering if y'all had an opinion before I drop a grand on an .50Beowulf upper. Am I being a sheep, being led by DDpreppers to buy something I really don't need, or is this a real force multiplier for a simply prepper like me, as Alexander Arms suggests?


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## OleSarge (Oct 30, 2012)

It's a good round but very expensive. Look at the 458 SOCOM and 450 bushmaster. The 450 bushmaster is by for the most affordable to shoot.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

The cool factor of any .50 can't be denied. Only one person can decide whether any gun or round is right for you. Luckily, here I am. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Look at the other guns you have and decide if this fills in a hole. If you reload then it will be more cost effective as there is no cheap ammo for .50. If ammo price is a factor .308 should cost you less and be more available. Then again, if you want it that is reason enough. Shooting new guns is fun. Come to think about it so is shooting old ones.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

OleSarge said:


> It's a good round but very expensive. Look at the 458 SOCOM and 450 bushmaster. The 450 bushmaster is by for the most affordable to shoot.


338 Lapua, 450 BM, and 458 SoCom seem more expensive all around. I am seeing them all in the $50 range and you can get .50Beowulf for $25x20 for practice rounds. I really don't care about shooting it really, at $1+ a round I think I will zero it in and stock about about 60-100 rnds to keep myself proficient, and keep 200rnds of spizer and hollow point in stock (for now) for situations that might arise. My thought was to use it in tandem with an AR... drop in, take out a car, pull it apart and switch back to .223.

I have 308 covered, but the ballistics are nowhere near the .50 at short distance and as I said I have probably 100yards from my gate to the turn in the road which is the furthest distance it would be possible for me to engage a car.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

With the 50 you can even take them out when they hide behind a tree. It is more useful than just stopping cars.


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

in regard to anything in the .50 cal .... get them while you can .... guns and ammo ..... absolutely bound to be included in the upcoming ban ...... they hate the fact that a civilian has their hands on something like this .... don't discount some kind of separate round-up of the weapons in the future ....


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

it will penetrate the armor on almost all crowd control armored cars and it will penetrate the highest level of frontal ceramic personal armor .

In order words this is a tool that allows you to put attackers at risk that otherwise would feel invulnerable.

Whenperceived invulnerability is lost, tactical options for such an attacker are diminished


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> it will penetrate the armor on almost all crowd control armored cars and it will penetrate the highest level of frontal ceramic armor .
> 
> In order words this is a tool that allows you to put attackers at risk that otherwise would feel invulnerable.
> 
> Whenperceived invulnerability is lost, tactical options for such an attacker are diminished


Not to mention that the sound of that thing will make most have second thoughts.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*You made up my mind for me.*



BlueZ said:


> it will penetrate the armor on almost all crowd control armored cars and it will penetrate the highest level of frontal ceramic armor .
> 
> In order words this is a tool that allows you to put attackers at risk that otherwise would feel invulnerable.
> 
> Whenperceived invulnerability is lost, tactical options for such an attacker are diminished


I already bought a lower for it, but you just sealed the deal!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

IMNSHO I consider the 50 BWF to be a gimmick round and one that was surely being marketed through DD Preppers. Especially since the "gun expert" that was selling him the rifle was clearly no expert. The stuff is over priced and over hyped. They pretend like it is capable of doing things that standard AP rounds aren't, but of course that is BS. 

You can buy old milsurp armor piercing .30-06 that will go through an engine block just fine from a standard rifle (as well as armor, ceramics, etc.). I bought a couple 192 round spam can a few years back of AP .30-06 M2 BALL from the CMP for $60 each. Turned my sporterized 1917 Enfield into a 7 shot block piercing machine. Does everything the 50 BWF can do for a whole LOT less.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> IMNSHO I consider the 50 BWF to be a gimmick round and one that was surely being marketed through DD Preppers. Especially since the "gun expert" that was selling him the rifle was clearly no expert. The stuff is over priced and over hyped. They pretend like it is capable of doing things that standard AP rounds aren't, but of course that is BS.
> 
> You can buy old milsurp armor piercing .30-06 that will go through an engine block just fine from a standard rifle. I bought a couple 192 round spam can a few years back of AP .30-06 M2 BALL from the CMP for $60 each. Turned my sporterized 1917 Enfield into a 7 shot block piercing machine.


There is a lot less energy in a .30 cal round than in a .50 cal round (F=MA), but you are right EXCEPT that AP are illegal and pre-ban ammo is quickly running out. I thought about AP ammo for my 30-06, and might still get some, but I worry about the old ammo and don't have the time or money to re-manufacture the rounds.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

30-06 is a great round no argument here... and I always wondered how it would do against our milspec level III ceramic front plates. I know it can penetrate my Gov't issue Kevlar Helmet as can any 50 cal bullet.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> I always wondered how it would do against our milspec level III ceramic front plates.


Then let me help put that to rest for you. You can just skip to the end of the slow video if you want to see the holes in the plate.


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## WWhermit (Mar 1, 2012)

Got a buddy that just got back from overseas, doing a few tours in a row. He uses a good old 1oz rifle slug with a 12 guage to take out an engine block.


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Caribou said:


> Only one person can decide whether any gun or round is right for you. Luckily, here I am.


Haha I am totally going to steal that line!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

WWhermit said:


> Got a buddy that just got back from overseas, doing a few tours in a row. He uses a good old 1oz rifle slug with a 12 guage to take out an engine block.


Yep that 12 guage sure will, however I wouldn't be attempting to take out the vehicle, I would be attempting to take out the driver and any passengers.

To me all I need do is take out the front seat occupants with my .308, then I can switch to my .223 that will be laying next to me to finish off anyone else in the vehicle, or I could just burn off about half a mag of .223 across the windshield and then finish off anyone else that bails out. Either way will work.

Dead BG's and an operational vehicle (minus a front windshield), instead of a non operational vehicle with a shot up engine that would have to be towed away, to me is a win win situation. Just this old warrior's opinion, for what it's worth.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Gotta agree old vet plus bullets into the engine are half likely to start a fire that could destroy any otherwise salvageable equiptment. Seems like under the circumstances that might be pretty important not to mention the fuel to be slavaged.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

WWhermit said:


> Got a buddy that just got back from overseas, doing a few tours in a row. He uses a good old 1oz rifle slug with a 12 gauge to take out an engine block.


HUH?! A regular lead rifled slug for an engine block? I picture a splatter, not a shatter. Or did I miss a good episode of Mythbusters? Anyone?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Big ole hunk of lead will mess a engine up. you don't really have to penetrate teh block to severely mess up a engine. Bust the water pump and lock it up. skim one across the top of the engine you gat all kinds of wiring plug wires distibutore fuel handling lines pumps etc. and if you hit a unreinforced part of the block that big ole heavy hunk of lead will indeed shatter through cast iron or cast aluminum.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Padre said:


> There is a lot less energy in a .30 cal round than in a .50 cal round (F=MA), but you are right EXCEPT that AP are illegal and pre-ban ammo is quickly running out. I thought about AP ammo for my 30-06, and might still get some, but I worry about the old ammo and don't have the time or money to re-manufacture the rounds.


Standard FMJ will do a lot more than most people think. The old x54R nagant round will punch straight through an 8" diameter cedar tree. I have no doubt that it would also crack an engine block. The .308 and 30-06 should do the same.

I have seen AP 50 cal penetrate 2" steel plate.


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

oldvet said:


> Yep that 12 guage sure will, however I wouldn't be attempting to take out the vehicle, I would be attempting to take out the driver and any passengers.
> 
> To me all I need do is take out the front seat occupants with my .308, then I can switch to my .223 that will be laying next to me to finish off anyone else in the vehicle, or I could just burn off about half a mag of .223 across the windshield and then finish off anyone else that bails out. Either way will work.
> 
> Dead BG's and an operational vehicle (minus a front windshield), instead of a non operational vehicle with a shot up engine that would have to be towed away, to me is a win win situation. Just this old warrior's opinion, for what it's worth.


Would make eaiser to "Dispose of the grabage"


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Padre said:


> There is a lot less energy in a .30 cal round than in a .50 cal round (F=MA), but you are right EXCEPT that AP are illegal and pre-ban ammo is quickly running out. I thought about AP ammo for my 30-06, and might still get some, but I worry about the old ammo and don't have the time or money to re-manufacture the rounds.


Illegal in your state, maybe?

It's illegal here in TX to have AP handgun ammo. Got to be careful about carrying M855 with an AR pistol, I guess...

Otherwise it's legal here to have 7.62AP, etc.

I've seen Garrett .45-70 Super hard cast go through a buffalo, breaking both shoulders. Over 3k ft lbs energy. I've always wondered what it would do to a fender/engine block. Definitely not as handy as an AR, but a lever gun isn't EVIL, right?


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Sentry18 said:


> IMNSHO I consider the 50 BWF to be a gimmick round and one that was surely being marketed through DD Preppers. Especially since the "gun expert" that was selling him the rifle was clearly no expert. The stuff is over priced and over hyped. They pretend like it is capable of doing things that standard AP rounds aren't, but of course that is BS.
> 
> You can buy old milsurp armor piercing .30-06 that will go through an engine block just fine from a standard rifle (as well as armor, ceramics, etc.). I bought a couple 192 round spam can a few years back of AP .30-06 M2 BALL from the CMP for $60 each. Turned my sporterized 1917 Enfield into a 7 shot block piercing machine. Does everything the 50 BWF can do for a whole LOT less.


Excepting Level IV plates, no?

That AP stuff can be tricky. It depends on what you shoot; it can ricochet like a mutha.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I am going to do some thread necromancy.

I found a good deal on a used 50 Beowulf including 120 rds of ammo ( mostly FMJ which is what I wanted) relaoding dies ( even tho I dont relaod , yet) 200 projectile sofr relaoding and 40+ brass.

Ordered 100 rds yesterday (tho I could only get 335 gr JHP)

Padre did u ever get that upper?


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

Padre said:


> So, I gotta admit that the .50 Beowulf on Doomsday preppers caught my attention the other day. Now I don't want to get scolded by the Admins so this is not about the gun itself, but about its usefulness to a prepper. I have always wanted a .50BMG for taking out engine blocks, if necessary, but when I learned about the .50Beowulf I was intrigued, because there is in reality nowhere on my property or near my property where I would be taking a shot at a distance greater than 200meters. And so I was wondering if y'all had an opinion before I drop a grand on an .50Beowulf upper. Am I being a sheep, being led by DDpreppers to buy something I really don't need, or is this a real force multiplier for a simply prepper like me, as Alexander Arms suggests?


Maybe mentioned already, but the .416 Barrett (necked down .50 casings) is the flattest shooting, etc of anything. So fast, bullets need to really be good to get out of the barrel; same problem as 6mm stuff. Lathe made solid brass rounds.

I know you want -an upper, so...realize that for sure, a .50, & most large caliber rounds can be instantly backtracked to source and return fire will be incoming if what one is firing toward has high-tech weapons systems. A vet stated flat out that a lot of patriots will be killed firing .50s for that reason. His advice; fire drop it & run like hell, come back later to get it if it is still there. That stmt was back in '94 or so. Systems are even better now.
A guy a month ago swore they can do it on a .308. Makes sense, so tracking, etc, is likely a non-factor.

Beyond that: force multiplier? Hell yes!!! In a small package too, as it complements as an accessory what you already have.

OTT, any caliber of African Big Game capability (used to be) you could get Titanium Carbide insert rounds. GREAT AP stuff;
a .338 Win Mag went through one inch AR steel like a laser. Everything else splattered & left lead marks.
Lots of .338s were built in western states for that very reason. 
One guys out there, I saw was a 31 inch barrel -1.5 Inch diameter all the way.
Loaded past .340 Weatherby velocity; I thought it was nuts, but I looked at the primers; not flattened at all. Lot of gunsmiths know what they are doing, you betcha by golly.

jeremiyah


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Jeremiah: I think what that guy was referring to was counterbattery radar.
They are Division Level assests.

As a qualfied artilleyman I find the claim dubious that it could track 50 cal rounds the smallest you usually look for with such systems are mortar rounds. 

Also I dont think any group outside the Army (and possibly marines) is operating counter battery radar and artillery batteries to fire in response to the radar detection events.

So all in all, not really a concern.


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## jeremiyah (Feb 13, 2009)

Padre said:


> There is a lot less energy in a .30 cal round than in a .50 cal round (F=MA), but you are right EXCEPT that AP are illegal and pre-ban ammo is quickly running out. I thought about AP ammo for my 30-06, and might still get some, but I worry about the old ammo and don't have the time or money to re-manufacture the rounds.


"You can buy old milsurp armor piercing .30-06 that will go through an engine block just fine from a standard rifle. I bought a couple 192 round spam can a few years back of AP .30-06 M2 BALL from the CMP for $60 each. Turned my sporterized 1917 Enfield into a 7 shot block piercing machine."

True enough...and good point, I agree as to use for engine block, which was the stated purpose...
although if armor shows up, .50 would be better, but even the .50 would be marginal without ROUFAS, ETC.

jeremiyah


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

It won't go through an engine block. Don't ask my how I know. It will go through 1/2 of mild steel.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

I spent 10 plus years rebuilding engines in a factory setting.
It always amazed me how easy it was to puncture a block.
And really we don't want that round to go all the way through.
We want it to go halfway and then bang around inside.
With that to thought support smaller calibers, it is nice to 
have the ability to punch through an inch of aluminum and
bounce around inside.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> It won't go through an engine block. Don't ask my how I know. It will go through 1/2 of mild steel.


I think it very much depends on the block.
The pic I saw had a block just demolished by the FMJ round.

I know its a bit gimmicky but if we cant have fun with this what CAN we have fun with?


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## Dude111 (Dec 28, 2012)

Padre said:


> Am I a sheeple or a wulf?


Not to worry,i dont think anyone here is a sheeple!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I want a 458 SOCOM myself,I can make brass with the right dies.its just a 45winmag on speed.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Who said*



Padre said:


> So, I gotta admit that the .50 Beowulf on Doomsday preppers caught my attention the other day. Now I don't want to get scolded by the Admins so this is not about the gun itself, but about its usefulness to a prepper. I have always wanted a .50BMG for taking out engine blocks, if necessary, but when I learned about the .50Beowulf I was intrigued, because there is in reality nowhere on my property or near my property where I would be taking a shot at a distance greater than 200meters. And so I was wondering if y'all had an opinion before I drop a grand on an .50Beowulf upper. Am I being a sheep, being led by DDpreppers to buy something I really don't need, or is this a real force multiplier for a simply prepper like me, as Alexander Arms suggests?


Who said everything you buy has to be prepper oriented ?

If you want one just to play with buy it.


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