# How to protect my new 80 watt solar panel?



## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

From EMP or a "Carrington Event" solar flare?
Just looking for an inexpensive way to give myself some peace of mind. I thought about building a 2 inch wide wood box surrounded by 1/4 inch hardware cloth to slide it into. I've also thought of ordering some perforated steel panels (1/8" holes).
My reasoning behind the steel is that I've noticed that my microwave's interior light is on during operation (yeah, go look for yourself), through perforations in the panel. They appear to be prohibitively expensive as opposed to regular ones, though.
The solar panel is roughly 28 X 36 inches, and I'd love for someone to reply with a solution so simple that I'd be embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it. Thanks in advance for the input!


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

If you don't mind, I'd like to piggy-back on your question. 

I'm interested in the responses to your question from a broader perspective on how to protect solar panels from damage from EMPs, high winds, hail. etc. 

I'm pretty sure the responses to the EMP part will also include the issue on how to protect the wiring infrastructure of the house and appliances.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I think the controller and the inverter are more susceptible to EMP than the panel itself.
Every single question about EMP effects is answered by conjecture.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

*It's for long-term storage...*

of the solar panel. I take it out of the carton occasionally to charge car batteries I play with; it's not installed. 
Charge controller, inverter, & other 12 volt 'toys' are all kept in old microwave ovens with the cords removed. I know it sounds too simplistic, but I've read all the (sometimes heated) debates on this subject, both here at P.S. and other forums.
Since there is no wide-spread consensus on the best method, I'll settle on the best advice that I can feel good about.
I DO recall seeing a pic of an airman looking out of a military aircraft window- and noting that there was a screen similar to rabbit cage wire over the glass.
My theory is that this is one of many things the military does to help 'harden' aircraft from electro magnetic energy from any source. Just sayin'....


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## Sybil6 (Jan 28, 2013)

Most solar panels come with protective plating already to resist against high winds and hail but I intend on getting one and making a set up that's able to be moved, so not only to stay in sunlight, but to be moved in out of harsh weather. EMPS, I'd definitely look into the microwave idea or other containers to protect from that.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

_My knowledge of EMP effects on solar panels is that I can spell both._

That said, I'd "think" some or all would come with protection. Is that not true? There's a lot of these things out there now and without it, are they all toast if we get a blast from the sun? I'd expect our traditional power grid to have problems due to its age and condition but if EMP isn't being considered by the mfgr's of solar panels, they've missed the boat on "things to consider for a new power source".


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I am unsure as to whether or not an EMP will affect a solar panel. Things like the strength of the event and whether you are on the edge or in the middle will be factors. I do believe the panels to be fairly sturdy. Anything you do to increase the protection will reduce the efficiency of the panel. If you are worried about it get a spare panel(s) and keep it in a faraday cage.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I would select an appropriate dummy load and connect it across the two terminals on the solar panel and call it good. I really don't see how an EMP can cause harm to a solar panel.



hiwall said:


> I think the controller and the inverter are more susceptible to EMP than the panel itself.


As do I also believe.

One other thing:
The faraday cage in a microwave was engineered to operate within one spectrum of frequency only. An EMP may not be so courteous as to occur within the spectrum that the microwave can operate safely in.



Sybil6 said:


> EMP's, I'd definitely look into the microwave idea or other containers to protect from that.


Cell Phone test: Not sure it is really valid.
It takes so little to disrupt the weak cell phone signal being used, that I don't see this as an accurate test. Better than nothing... but still.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Regarding hail, wind, etc.

All of the (boxed in as opposed to flexible types) solar panels I'm aware of use aluminum frames and tempered glass. They are extremely tough against hail, wind, etc. I've seen them blown off the top of a motorhome and still function as new and there wasn't even a scratch on the glass.

Our home panels are mounted on a pivoting frame. I reset the angle for winter and summer but the frame itself will rotate about 240 degrees. If we have hail or a storm coming I rotate the panels so that the edges are facing the wind/hail. The problem is when we're away from home.

We still don't worry excessively. My tower is solidly mounted and the panels are incredibly tough. I also make sure that the holding system (friction) is loose enough that a strong wind will turn the panels parallel to or away from the wind.

Movable panels are good and bad. The bad is that you need to put them under cover or protect them any time you are gone. Also, next to the ground is not normally the best place for strong sunlight (although in some places it won't be a problem).

When in Nevada for the winter we've done it both ways and I always end up mounting the panels to the motorhome. It just seems to work best overall.

Other problems for ground mounted or moveable panels are the dog (knocking it over or getting dirt on it), the kids (love to throw rocks and mud at them), thieves (easy access), blowing sand and dirt are worse at ground level, and often temporary wiring connections are not as efficient as permanent connections. If it's even slightly windy you'll want to anchor them to something solid (a vehicle bumper or stake them down).

The best thing is portability (you can use them to charge the battery in your vehicle if necessary or share them with others in your group - might be a good plan if you have a group or extended family at your BO location) and the ability to move them during the day for the strongest sunlight.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

I agree with LincTex and hiwall in that EMP damage to the panels themselves is remote. The more pressing issue is the quality of the panels. Are they weatherproof or weather resistant? I have seen cheap panels that fail in the first rain event. Unfortunately they were panels that I had purchased as bargains. 

I would also highly recommend you buy systems. In other words buy your panels, inverters and connectors from same manufacturer. In terms of batteries your best bet is to go with gel type so that even if you let it run all the way down it will not ruin your battery. GB


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

GrinnanBarrett said:


> In other words buy your panels, inverters and connectors from same manufacturer.


I disagree a little... A person can shop around and get the best deals . I see no shame in putting together a sytem of carefully selectrd components, saving some money in the process.



GrinnanBarrett said:


> In terms of batteries your best bet is to go with gel type so that even if you let it run all the way down it will not ruin your battery.


I disagree STRONGLY. Did you mean to say AGM batteries instead? 
If so, they are pretty good. I would not recommend gel cells, ever.

I would also recommend flooded lead acid over AGM.

I would also recommend no one ever run their batteries down past their safe point, EVER. Keep an eye on voltages, and stop when you get to the minimum allowable low limit.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

GrinnanBarrett said:


> I agree with LincTex and hiwall in that EMP damage to the panels themselves is remote. The more pressing issue is the quality of the panels. Are they weatherproof or weather resistant? I have seen cheap panels that fail in the first rain event. Unfortunately they were panels that I had purchased as bargains.
> 
> I would also highly recommend you buy systems. In other words buy your panels, inverters and connectors from same manufacturer. In terms of batteries your best bet is to go with gel type so that even if you let it run all the way own it will not ruin your battery. GB


"I agree that EMP damage to the panels themselves is remote"... Based upon what? Are they not minute circuits spread over a massive exposed area? As the original poster, I'm now thinking I'll just get a roll of reflective insulation & staple it over the wood carton I've made for the panel, sealing seams with 2" foil tape.
I'll just call it a day for around $27.... Thanks to all who replied!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

pawpaw said:


> "I agree that EMP damage to the panels themselves is remote"... Based upon what? Are they not minute circuits spread over a massive exposed area?


Yes and no.

Imagine "minute circuits" being bridges, over gulches, from one place to another - - some are so narrow only a person could walk across, some big enough for a VW beetle, and some that can handle semi trucks. All can be damaged, correct?

Now, picture one big bridge that spans the width of the entire gulch, several miles wide so that 1,000 cars can cross, abreast, all at once. That is more what a solar cell looks like. Not a bunch of "minute circuits" that can be damaged, more like once big wide circuit.

That is why I don't fear them getting damaged easily. Many other circuits I would shunt, like the electronic ignition in a car. Solar panels I would leave as open circuits if I knew an EMP was coming (or when in storage)


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*My best answer.*

An electrode magnetic pulse would short out any electronics and there is not protection from it. An EMP reverse magnetizes everything and fries the circuits because of overheating.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

readytogo said:


> An electrode magnetic pulse would short out any electronics and there is not protection from it.


Wrong.
If you understand how electronics work, you can protect your circuits.



readytogo said:


> An EMP reverse magnetizes everything and fries the circuits because of overheating.


Uhhhhhh.... Ok :scratch


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Now, picture one big bridge that spans the width of the entire gulch, several miles wide so that 1,000 cars can cross, abreast, all at once. That is more what a solar cell looks like. Not a bunch of "minute circuits" that can be damaged, more like once big wide circuit.


LincTex, 
Wouldn't the wave propagating at near light speed and high voltage gradient cause your bridge to weather the storm one row of cars at a time?

You wouldn't have the same voltage across all points of the PN junction. There would be a nanosecond wall of high voltage sweeping across the panel.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Let me rephrase some of this. The heavier a circuit the higher the voltage and/or amperage it can withstand. An older chip built with older technology has heavier circuits and, in theory, would fare better in an EMP/CME. Solar panels have much, much heavier circuits. Think of them more as a "macrochip". Any controllers, inverters, etc. may have issues.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

labotomi said:


> You wouldn't have the same voltage across all points of the PN junction. There would be a nanosecond wall of high voltage sweeping across the panel.


Only if the entire surface of the panel were actually able to accept the voltage instantaneously. If given only a nanosecond of time, You would have to assume the entire amount of energy would be (could be?) absorbed. If some areas of the panels absorbed the energy more slowly (different rates) wouldn't that act as a buffer? What is some areas accepted no energy at all in that brief moment in time?

I am hoping (betting on?) the silicon based, non-metallic surface wouldn't accept/receive the energy as readily as a purely metallic surface would. A "poor receiver antenna", if you will.

Of course, all of this is indeed highly speculative. I have no way to test this theory.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Caribou said:


> The heavier a circuit the higher the voltage and/or amperage it can withstand. An older chip built with older technology has heavier circuits and, in theory, would fare better in an EMP/CME.


To a degree... a bullet-proof vest that can stop .357 Mag rds is powerless against .50 BMG!

I do not worry about CME damaging a solar panel at all. I consider that the equivalent of holding a .50 BMG bullet in your hand and dropping it on the vest versus a HEMP which I equate to a fired bullet.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Only if the entire surface of the panel were actually able to accept the voltage instantaneously. If given only a nanosecond of time, You would have to assume the entire amount of energy would be (could be?) absorbed. If some areas of the panels absorbed the energy more slowly (different rates) wouldn't that act as a buffer? What is some areas accepted no energy at all in that brief moment in time?


I'm not sure about the usIage of the "absorbed" term. Is it in reference to the inducement of voltage? I'm not sure why some areas would behave differently. Even if they did and the amount of voltage induced into some areas was different, that in itself would be a potential source of damage as voltage differences are the cause of damage in semiconductors

The fast time is not beneficial, it's actually the reason that the E1 component wreaks havoc and doesn't follow the same set of rules most associate with electrical properties. Usually you can think of all points on an electrical wire to remain at the same voltage. But with an EMP you can have a 1 meter wire with 0 volts on one end and several thousand volts on the other. The time that current flows is so short as to not cause heating problems. That's why devices such as solenoids, transformers and simple wiring won't be harmed. The current flow is too short for a significant amount of heat to build up.

Voltage by itself can harm semiconductors such as the PN junction of a solar panel. Even though in the case of a panel the physical size is large, the wave will hit one edge of it first (it'll be rare that it's on the same plane as the panel). As it travels across the panel, the line immediately in front and immediately behind the wave will be at basically 0 volts. The area the wave is "touching" will be several thousand volts higher. The area being affected at any instant in time will only be as wide as the actual pulse. That high voltage differential across the small area of the semiconductor being affected is the source of problems.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Do you think the PN junction can handle the voltage differential if the amperage is insufficient?


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Do you think the PN junction can handle the voltage differential if the amperage is insufficient?


No. Charge alone can damage the junctions.

I'm still just hypothesizing about how an EMP will affect it though. Too many variables and not enough understanding.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Most quality solar panels have a diode to protect from reverse current flow when they are not producing voltage from the sun. That diode would seem to be the most susceptible to EMP. As to protecting solar controller and inverter, the shed that I'm building I plan on metal roof and siding. The underside of the floor is already covered with a screen. The metal roof and siding will be connected to 8' ground rods at each corner. As to the solar panels themselves one could use wire cloth spaced so as not to touch the glass. I will already have the panel frames grounded so grounding the cloth wouldn't be a problem. With the amount of overbuild I have designed, the panel output probably would not be affected to any great degree with a screen over them. Just some thoughts I've had running through my mind considering that the solar activity going on could produce an X level CME aimed at the earth.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Viking said:


> Just some thoughts I've had running through my mind considering that the solar activity going on could produce an X level CME aimed at the earth.


The danger from a CME would be via any attached wiring. Unless you have a grid tie system or a fairly long wire run from the system to the loads there is virtually no chance of damage to your panels from a CME.

As far as the siding, roof and mesh protecting the contents from an EMP; My opinion is that it may slightly reduce the damaging effects but i would not rely on it for anything I wasn't willing to lose.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

I don't have any of these and know nothing about them but this thread put me on the hunt for a way to protect my solar equipment as well. Anyone have any experience with these? EMP Bag


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

squerly said:


> I don't have any of these and know nothing about them but this thread put me on the hunt for a way to protect my solar equipment as well. Anyone have any experience with these?


These should provide a significant level of protection for any backup or spare parts. None of us here has experienced a major CME or an attack involving an EMP so our opinions are based on our study.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

squerly said:


> I don't have any of these and know nothing about them but this thread put me on the hunt for a way to protect my solar equipment as well. Anyone have any experience with these? EMP Bag


If you order something like this please don't pay that price. Do a search for antistatic bag and you'll find the same thing for far less money.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

labotomi said:


> If you order something like this please don't pay that price. Do a search for antistatic bag and you'll find the same thing for far less money.


Yes, indeed!

Good Lord, just stop by a computer parts store and ask for their old used bags!


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Stock up on 1000's of yards of HD tin foil and ground wire


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I think 10 - 180 watt panels stacked in two "sandwiches" of 5 each and foil wrapped, 
then secured to the ceiling of a shipping container would be a nice prep


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## Jimbo777 (Jun 21, 2014)

squerly said:


> I don't have any of these and know nothing about them but this thread put me on the hunt for a way to protect my solar equipment as well. Anyone have any experience with these? EMP Bag EMP Bag


I have a Goal Zero 20 watt solar panel.

These all have a junction box on the backside of the panel.
Inside the junction box are goodies that an EMP attack will Fry!

Do what I did and go over to...

http://www.emp-bags.com/

and protect your investment for only a few dollars!

J


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## MarcellusFus (Jun 28, 2014)

pawpaw said:


> From EMP or a "Carrington Event" solar flare?
> Just looking for an inexpensive way to give myself some peace of mind. I thought about building a 2 inch wide wood box surrounded by 1/4 inch hardware cloth to slide it into. I've also thought of ordering some perforated steel panels (1/8" holes).
> My reasoning behind the steel is that I've noticed that my microwave's interior light is on during operation (yeah, go look for yourself), through perforations in the panel. They appear to be prohibitively expensive as opposed to regular ones, though.
> The solar panel is roughly 28 X 36 inches, and I'd love for someone to reply with a solution so simple that I'd be embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it. Thanks in advance for the input!


Well friend I am facing similar query.. Need to guard those panels? Were you able to find the right technique? Hope you will reply soon..


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Jimbo777 said:


> Do what I did and go over to...
> http://www.emp-bags.com/
> and protect your investment for only a few dollars!


I guess you missed this post: http://www.preparedsociety.com/foru...watt-solar-panel-24511/index3.html#post341861

And the other ones that followed after it?

Oh yeah... good luck with those "EMP bags"


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't worry as much about the EMP as I do about the meddling bureaucrats and greedy power companies that try to prevent me from using Solar. 

eep:


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## Jimbo777 (Jun 21, 2014)

Jerry Emanuelson an expert on EMP protection definitely recommends protecting your portable solar panels from an EMP attack.

I have my spare solar panels wrapped in EMP bags and these are stored also inside of a faraday box.

http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html

J


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## MarcellusFus (Jun 28, 2014)

MarcellusFus said:


> From EMP or a "Carrington Event" solar flare?
> Just looking for an inexpensive way to give myself some peace of mind. I thought about building a 2 inch wide wood box surrounded by 1/4 inch hardware cloth to slide it into. I've also thought of ordering some perforated steel panels (1/8" holes).
> My reasoning behind the steel is that I've noticed that my microwave's interior light is on during operation (yeah, go look for yourself), through perforations in the panel. They appear to be prohibitively expensive as opposed to regular ones, though.
> The solar panel is roughly 28 X 36 inches, and I'd love for someone to reply with a solution so simple that I'd be embarrassed that I hadn't thought of it. Thanks in advance for the input!
> ...


Thanks for suggestions guys.. It really worked..


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

*Update - By PawPaw*

I got all I asked for from the many replies to this thread. Thanx.
I ended up building a wooden enclosure consisting of 2x2 furring strips with used paneling as the surface area.
Tiring of the prices for NEW sheetmetal , I then scored some huge pieces of thin aluminum sheet for $9.00 at a local recyclers. Yes, most of them will "retail" you about anything they have.
These form the outer "shell" over the paneling, the edges of which I ground to bare metal for great contact with the three layers of aluminum tape I applied. (Another $8.00)
Taking it out to use it only rarely, I simply cut the tape across the top & sacrifice a couple more strips to re-secure it.
I know, I know- it's a bunch of effort, but I'm satisfied I've done what I can with what I've got, and it was fun. Merry Christmas to ALL!!


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