# Small Sailboats



## sailaway

Has anyone considdered getting a sailboat between 15'-20' to bug out on or live on for extended time periods. They can be found for $2,000 or lesss and can be launched in 20" of water or less. You could launch it on a river or a secluded area where the zombies can't get at you. Keeping it at home on its trailer would be inexpensive and it could be used as a travel trailer on trips across country. Bug out materials could be stored on it as a good central location. Just hook up to BOV and take off.


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## HozayBuck

Hey Sail...this is a good idea as I once thought that prepping to hide out in the canyons of Lake Powell in UT was a cool idea, 1500 miles of shore line filled with hidden canyons .

How about some more of your thoughts and some pics or locations... I've never done anything with bosts except ride in a friends boats..

Yea I could Google it but it's more fun if somebody who knows what they are talking about handles it....


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## mosquitomountainman

My persoanl opinion is that boats of all kinds have some good points for surviving. Around here your options are limited due to the size and configuration of the local lakes but in some places I think they'd be great.


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## NaeKid

I am located on the eastern-slopes of the Rockies .. nothing but flat-land and desert-like-conditions around here. The only small boats that are any good are canoes and fishing boats. The large lakes can handle some motorboats (ski) and small sailboats - but - you are very limited to how far you can go before needing to put the boat on a trailer and haulin' it to a different lake.

In the area that I grew up in, there were many more lakes - and - very large ones at that, making sailboats and houseboats a little more pratical to live on .. and then just west of where I grew up was the Pacific ocean and boats were a little more popular around there for some strange reason .. :sssh:


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## sailaway

Where I live, I can easily sail to any of the great lakes and there secluded areas. I can also go down the Chicago Ship and Garbage Canal to the Mississippi River to the Gulf of Mexico. However there would be locks to get through. I can also sail to the Erie Canal and go through to the Hudson river or out to the St. Lawrence Sea Way. Locks and Dams are obstructions here on these routes also.

I have thought with a small sailboat on a trailer you could launch it almost anywhere and travel. Read the magazines on sailing and cruising in the book stores. One current story is about a lady school teacher/principal who spends 3 months of the summer living on her 17' sailboat enjoying life. Food is the most expensive item if you don't dock in a marina but anchor out. She says it's cheaper than living at home in her cost analysis.

With a small trailerable sailboat I could drag it to Pittsburgh or Cincinnati, launch it and go down the Ohio River to the Land Between the Lakes in Ky. and keep going south through Tennessee and Missippi to the Gulf, just anchoring out and camping along secluded shores and islands along the way.

Small sail boats have tabernackle masts which come unpinned and easily lowered for going under bridges, or for easy kock down and reassembly when trailering. You can get by with a 2 or 4 hp outboard, they use very little gas and if you find a sailboat with a retractible center board you can get in as shallow as a foot of water.

You can also fish as you go. You would need to carry some water and a purifyer of some sort and maybe forage for food along the way. You would be unnoticed by people along the highway and on land for the most part, and can carry a bicycle for transportation on land.

I like the idea of mixed use, using it as a camper and sailing it in lakes and rivers as you travel cross country. You could explore every where that has been mentioned on this thread so far.

Set up a 1 or 2 battery bank with a small solar charger and you can have a radio and some other 12v items from a truck stop. cook with either propane or charcoal or a fire along the shore.

You can probably find a small inexpensive sailboat at New Boats And Used Boats For Sale By Owner And From Dealers, ebay, in the newspaper, in the back storage area of a boat yard or just covered over in someones yard as you go down the highway.

These are just a few thoughts.


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## Jerry

*sailing cheap*

Hey everyone, I'm new here but I'm fascinated by this subject. I don't know that I want to escape so much as I would like to experiment with a new lifestyle. I do use my laptop and my cell phone all the time but I would almost prefer to get back to writing letters and only sometimes calling friends or family.

I'm looking for a source for mini-veggies and fruits/berries. I have just finished designing a solar oven that I am now using. Guess I really like the idea of living off the GRID.

I am looking forward to many conversations with everyone. I really think a sailboat is a great way to do what I'm talking about.

Cheers,
Sailor Jerry


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## sailaway

Jerry said:


> Hey everyone, I'm new here but I'm fascinated by this subject. I don't know that I want to escape so much as I would like to experiment with a new lifestyle. I do use my laptop and my cell phone all the time but I would almost prefer to get back to writing letters and only sometimes calling friends or family.
> 
> I'm looking for a source for mini-veggies and fruits/berries. I have just finished designing a solar oven that I am now using. Guess I really like the idea of living off the GRID.
> 
> I am looking forward to many conversations with everyone. I really think a sailboat is a great way to do what I'm talking about.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sailor Jerry


Jerry, I lived on a sailboat in Miami, Fl. for almost 9 years. It was a 27' Catalina. It reeked of humility, but I owned it. I had alot of fun and met alot of cool people.


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## Jerry

*almost 9 yrs. whew !*

Sailaway,

That is impressive to live on a 27 ft. chunk of fiberglass for 9 yrs. I'm hoping I can do the same.

I only have a 27 ft. Bristol sailboat which I know is a good enough boat but it is a bit cramped. I've been thinking of trying to sell mine and moving into something a bit larger. Any suggestions ? I know I'm falling prey to the 3 foot itis thing but.....

I'm also curious about wood hull boats. I've heard the good side and the bad. Lin and Larry Pardey sure love wood and you can't get much more experienced than they are.

Cost is a major factor too!

BTW My boat reeks sometimes too...not always of humility


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## sailaway

Wood definately costs alot less, but alot more to maintain correctly. I orrigionally lived with my aunt and uncle on their 49' Alaskin Trawler on Miami Beach. A real palace until you saw one 3' longer. Wood boats in salt water rot from the deck down. We always salted the top sides. Fresh water boats rot from the bilge up. Put a bag of rock salt down there. 

It is alot easier to live on 30', that extra 3' is nice. The secret for me living on my boat was to never be there, I'm not much of a home body, so I was always off the boat. I did have alot of fun and met alot of cool people that I stay in touch with 15 years later, some are still cruising and living on their boats with their kids. A couple even home school.


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## Jerry

*3 footitis*

Thanks for the info. I guess I knew better about wooden boats but I kept hoping someone would come up with a good reason to have one. I would agree about not being "home" very much still I think I might go stir crazy on a 27 footer when I might have to spend extra time on her. I have gone aboard a neighbors Catalina 30 which is at my Marina. I can't believe the amount of extra room in there.

I will throw more questions and comments out there from time to time.

Thanks,
Cheers,
Jerry


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## sailaway

Jerry said:


> Thanks for the info. I guess I knew better about wooden boats but I kept hoping someone would come up with a good reason to have one. I would agree about not being "home" very much still I think I might go stir crazy on a 27 footer when I might have to spend extra time on her. I have gone aboard a neighbors Catalina 30 which is at my Marina. I can't believe the amount of extra room in there.
> 
> I will throw more questions and comments out there from time to time.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cheers,
> Jerry


Jerry, that 3' really adds alot. The Catalina line of boats were designed for the winds in San Francisco Bay, and they can really scoot in the right wind. For being caught in a storm or trans-oceanic sailing I would definately want a full keel or modifyed full keel.


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## GatorDude

For a bugout boat, I'd really want a full-keel, ocean going, sailboat. That would give me the opportunity to relocate far out to sea and even to another continent. However, you really would need to dedicate yourself to the art of sailing and navigation.


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## sailaway

GatorDude said:


> For a bugout boat, I'd really want a full-keel, ocean going, sailboat. That would give me the opportunity to relocate far out to sea and even to another continent. However, you really would need to dedicate yourself to the art of sailing and navigation.


Personally, I prefer a full keel, imagine hitting a submerged container with a fin keel!


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## sailaway

I will be spending the rest of this summer and fall on an Oday 31. I am enjoying the freedom from the system on it right now. I don't feel like a wage slave any more.


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## NaeKid

Umm ... does that mean that you quit working and are on pogey?


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## Jerry D Young

This is what I'd use for the situation you describe:

MACGREGOR 26 HOME PAGE

Power for the quick get away when needed, sail for normal times, enough inside room for supplies and to move around, trailerable, and not that expensive. (But definitely more than $2,000.)


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## GatorDude

MacGregors have a rather mixed reputation on quality. Some sailors say that they use lower quality rigging components, etc. However, there are a lot of boat snobs out there so you'd have to look for yourself and compare to more established brands. My folks used to have a Catalina 25 from the early 80s. It slept 6, had a galley and a bathroom. If you go up to a 30 you get a quantum leap in cabin space. But, the bigger boats confine you to a marina and all those expenses.

BTW, my wife had been ixnaying any more sailboats for us, but recently said that she could go for a MacGregor someday so it's definitely on my shortlist.


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## sailaway

Mc Greggor makes a nice Condo type boat for living on at the dock and doing a little travelling. There are several in my location and they are perfect for travelling around the islands where I live. I prefer boats with the chainplates that are bolted through the hull instead of the deck though, they can stand up to more punnishment in a storm. When I rerig the standing rigging on a mast I go the next size up on the wire and prefer Staylocks for the hardware. Also a mast stepped through to the keel is a nice bonus for strength. My current boat has a fin keel, I wish it was a full keel. There is more boat below the water line on a full keel boat which I regard as saffer. Full keels just go alittle slower.


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## JeepHammer

I don't know about 'End Of The World' boats,
But I do a LOT of sailing/boating, one of my passions.

Retractable Keel, no matter how clumsy, is always a good thing!
Really hard to get into those 'Tight' spots when you have a big old keel sticking down in the way!

If you were around a river, I would look into outrigger or flat boats.
shallow draft, lots of stability, load carrying capacity, and generally very good, but sometimes slow, and would make short work of shallows.

For open bodies of water, I would look into sails with keels.
But like I said, Keels are a pain if you can't retract them.
I HATE rowing for a mile because we can't get into reef areas or shallows.
If you are one of the 'End Of The World' types, consider the expenditures of calories and exposure time in a dingy trying to get to/from a shore...

Retractable Keels aren't new, they come on smaller trailer transportable boats already, so it's not a huge deal.
(and no, I'm not talking about 'Dagger Board' type blades, Actual retractable keels you have to go below and crank up if you have never seen one, they are SPACE WASTERS!)

Canoe with an outrigger is what I used in my youth.
Found a 'Torpedo' shaped aluminum tube (Probably aircraft pod) at an army/navy surplus store when I was a kid, made an outrigger out of it, and made a mast/sail for my canoe.
Actually worked VERY well!
Very stable, since we would swim a lot, and getting back in a canoe when you have been swimming is a REAL PAIN, the outrigger made it a snap.

By loosening the 'U' bolt (Muffler) clamps (Wing nuts) we could pull the outrigger in or let it out when needed for transport,
And when transporting, outrigger and poles when in the canoe, no big deal for transporting.

The crude design was inspired by Polynesian outrigger canoes I had seen in National Geographic, they had sails, so I just HAD to have a sail!
The first sail was VERY crude, but later I acquired an aluminum mast and sail/boom from a 'Sunfish' boat, (at least that's what it said on the sail!),
And away we went!

Now I would probably have a 'Foul Weather' cover over the canoe, that would save a bunch of bailing after rain, and I'd probably go with a wider, flatter bottom, and maybe longer canoe.

Even with outrigger, sail, mast, ect. it could still be moved short distances by one guy, and several hundred yards in one trip by two guys...

Now I would probably use PVC pipe for the outrigger with a PVC pointed post cap for the nose/tail of the outrigger.

Sail or not much of an electric/gas engine will make a canoe SCOOT across the water! Even when loaded down, it still gets right with it!
And the draft will let you get right into places you wouldn't be able to with any other kind of boat!

A couple of solar cells for battery recharge, and reasonable trolling motor, and a sail, and you could REALLY get around anywhere but in the open ocean or on the great lakes in bad weather!

Since the outrigger was sealed, and the poles for the outrigger and my first mast were all wood, you COULD NOT sink that canoe!
I would swamp, but you couldn't sink it!
Now, I'd probably go for an aluminum mast right out of the box, but I'd seal it closed so it floated even when the boat swamped,
And I'd probably make the outrigger arms out of sealed aluminum tubes also.
Wood works, but it's heavy and clumsy...

Did I mention if your outrigger is large enough,
or you lash two canoes together in catamaran fashion, you can use a net between the outrigger arms and have a TON more room for cargo, camping, sleeping, and the mast makes a GREAT place to secure your bug net, (or I guess camo netting if you wanted to be hidden while camping/boating)...

Anyway, just some ideas for your 'Survival' or just plain FUN boating/camping budget dollar...


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## sailaway

JeepHammer, you have some great ideas,:2thumb: it's interesting how a boat can be adapted to your particular circumstances.


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## JeepHammer

Not my idea, but I know a good idea when I steal it! 

All we had was canoe, which is a REAL PAIN to get back in once you go swimming in the middle of a lake...
Outrigger seemed like a good idea, and since the float for the outrigger fell into my lap... Why not try it!

Canoes have been used for centuries by everyone from inland tribes to sea going groups, so it was tested before I got it!

We had to make rafts in the military, everyone wanted to lash long pieces, in a narrow raft that liked to tip over and was hard to steer,
We made one that was shorter and wider, with an outrigger, and as long as you stayed on the out rigger side, it was VERY stable.

The instructor didn't find humor in it, but after he saw us get on and off it while swimming, he passed us on the evolution.
We actually used it for swimming after the training! Turned out to be useful after all!

I want a 'Barge', some big flat bottom boat that will navigate in rivers.
Something that doesn't cost $500K and is pretty easy to live in.
Solar PV and Solar Thermal, something with a deck big enough we can grow vegetables,
Something that won't be too hard to navigate north when it gets hot and south when it gets cold...
That would be my ideal retirement, always the 'Right' temp, and if you don't like the neighborhood or scenery, you haul anchor and bug out!

Probably never happen, but I'd like it!


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## mrbroker

*Trapped*

Consider being trapped on a boat with mauraders around. I love the idea, but security would be a nightmare in a bug out situation. Even if you had cannons, this would be a dangerous means of travel. Bridges overhead. Range from the coast. Defense against pirates with gas powered boats. I thought of this option years ago and had to dismiss it due to the overwhelming security threats that I would be placing my family under.

This would be a rather neat way of living for a period of time though. I can just imagine the beauty and serenity that a person would enjoy.


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## sailaway

It is a neat way of living and the marine crowd seems to look out for each other. There are always pirates though. Just look like you don't have much. A small boat can get into alot of safe secure spaces.


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## GatorDude

There might be a few advantages to a sailboat.

1. You can hear the whine of a powerboat prop through the hull.
2. In a firefight, your boat is less likely to explode than a powerboat.
3. Many marauders can't swim.
4. You can improvise or repair sails and masts easier than marauders can improvise a motor.
5. Five years after SHTF, your boat can still be mobile.
6. A swiveling centerboard will gently push up into your hull when you get into the shallows. An outboard motor prop may be toast if you run aground at speed.

For survivability, you could always paint your boat in a camouflage pattern and stain your sails with tea. Then, you'd be less likely to be seen from a distance. You might be able to armor a couple of key areas with kevlar or something like that.

If you have local knowledge of the area where you sail, you'll likely be able to coax powerboat marauders into shallows, stumpy areas, and other hazardous places.


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## sailaway

A small sailboat, say 23' or less with a cabin and a retractable centerboard could double as a travel trailer. You could camp in it at state and national parks, KOA's and Wally World. It can be easily launched from any boat ramp and quickly rigged. A great way to go from land to water and keep moving.


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## JeepHammer

Most modern sail boats have masts that can be folded for transportation,
Keels that retract, and they have inboard or outboard engines for power operation.

If you don't absolutely NEED a cabin, then a catamaran type boat will be fast, stealthy, and carry a lot of cargo, although most of it will be 'On Deck' (or netting as it were)...

Personally, I like the idea of a slower, but more solidly built 'House Boat' type with flatter hull intended for shallow/narrow inland waterways.
Shallow draft, large carrying/cargo capacity, housing built in, low fuel consumption with capabilities for sails which are virtually useless close to shore on on most rivers...

Salt water boats are a pain to maintain, salt water is hard on EVERYTHING, including the operator!

Fresh water boats are MUCH easier to maintain and last much longer in most cases.


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