# Need help/advice on garden



## mikesolid (Aug 24, 2011)

Ok here's the situation. I have a chicken wired fenced in area for a garden. But right now, at this very moment, it's just a square patch of dirt with a ungodly amount of weeds growing in it. I know it's too late to grow anything this year (I live in the midwest, it'll be winter before we all know it  ) but anyways my question is What can I do right now to get my garden ready for next year? I plan on growing tomatoes, green peppers, and maybe some onions and carrots.

(oh and I don't know if this matters but I'll be growing these for home canning later)

Thanks alot ahead for any help.


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

How big is it? If you don't like weed killers and it's small enough, you may want to consider covering it with black plastic or something to start killing the weeds.


----------



## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

We're midwest, too. To get our beds ready for next year we're going to put down manure and cover that with shredded leaves and grass clippings, then cover with black plastic. I know someone who did that with her garden, and she said her plastic never had snow covering on it all winter (even though surrounding areas did) because it stayed warm underneath, cooking her compost. She said she tilled it up in the spring and had great soil. We're hoping for the same.

p.s. - one person told me cow manure is better than horse manure due to their digestion process, but if you can't get cow manure, horse manure is better than no manure at all. :dunno:


----------



## mikesolid (Aug 24, 2011)

goshengirl said:


> We're midwest, too. To get our beds ready for next year we're going to put down manure and cover that with shredded leaves and grass clippings, then cover with black plastic. I know someone who did that with her garden, and she said her plastic never had snow covering on it all winter (even though surrounding areas did) because it stayed warm underneath, cooking her compost. She said she tilled it up in the spring and had great soil. We're hoping for the same.
> 
> p.s. - one person told me cow manure is better than horse manure due to their digestion process, but if you can't get cow manure, horse manure is better than no manure at all. :dunno:


thanks alot for the help. I'll try that this year. If nothing else it won't hurt. I'm not a hardcore gardener so something like this is perfect for me to try.
thanks again.


----------



## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Ill be doing the same thing this year in my expanding garden. I will double the size, and in the new plot, I plan to fill the space let by the rocks I removed (about 6" worth) with manure and compost.
Is it ok to just have essentially 6" worth of manure as 'topsoil'? It doesnt need anything else in it?


----------



## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

If the weeds have seeded already ,they are in the ground now,so just cover the weeds and whatever leaves with plastic mulch and let nature take its course if you don't want to use manure.
The weeds and other leaves will decompose and feed the soil.
Some manures are full of addiives.You will have all winter to make good compost.We try to stay organic so thats what we would do.We double dig all or gardens ,well lately its single dig,works fine too.


----------



## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

goshengirl said:


> p.s. - one person told me cow manure is better than horse manure due to their digestion process, but if you can't get cow manure, horse manure is better than no manure at all. :dunno:


I've heard that to. My grandmother would never use horse manure in her garden. She always got cow manure from the neighbors. I've got a friend that was excited last year to get a load of alpaca manure for her garden. It was an anniversary present. She's a hard core gardener. I was told it has someting to do with horse manure having more nitrogen than is good for gardening. I'm sure google could be your friend in researching.
Take Care,
Moose


----------



## Graebarde (Aug 30, 2011)

Mike..
If your just starting, and want to put some effort into it, I suggest the deep bed system. Start with one bed and go from there. In short it entails removing the sod layer, digging out about two feet of the soil and forking the bottom about 6-8 inches to break up the pan. Then the sod is placed in the hole (with all the weed seeds), and covered with the soil. Composted manure.. or the chopped and composted grass/weeds from the plot, are mixed in with the topsoil. Don't compact it back down as it will settle.

Now the easiest way there is to do a 18" by 36" section at a time. Put down a tarp to put the sod on, and the dirt you dig out. After you spade the bottom of the hole, take the sod from the next section and flip it into the hole, then the soil, and fork that hole bottom, and continue.. the last hole gets the sod and soil from the first hole. Yeah it's work, but you get excellent growing area, and the weed seeds are burried deep.

Now a warning to all about manure.. it's great, but composted is better than fresh for a couple of reasons. The first is weed seeds in composted has usually (key word) been heated in the process destroying it's germination capability. I learned the hard way years ago about fresh manure in the garden.. of course it depends on what the critter had fed. Also, nr 2, fresh manure is usually too hot (rich in nitrogen) to put with growing plants. Poultry litter especially needs to be composted for a while. Fall application for spring garden is a good way to handle that problem however. And the nurtients leach into the soil. 

I'll give you this disclaimer though, I am NOT a master gardener, just lucky in most respects. FB


----------



## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Immolatus said:


> Ill be doing the same thing this year in my expanding garden. I will double the size, and in the new plot, I plan to fill the space let by the rocks I removed (about 6" worth) with manure and compost.
> Is it ok to just have essentially 6" worth of manure as 'topsoil'? It doesnt need anything else in it?


The only problem I had was getting the tractor and tiller into the garden. Straight manure holds the water and is very slick. I was about 10" thick but stripped out 1/2 of it then re-tilled so it could pull in the soil which was just below. It came out better. The manure I stripped out went into the strawberry garden so the strawberries grew in straight manure and grew very nicely.

BTW - watch out for "Poop Tomatoes" (my term). If you can, find out what kind of "treats" the cattle was given. In my case, the cows got lots of tomatoes. I have around 20 tomato plants that grew out of the seeds in the manure.

As for horse vs. cow manure, IIRC, the latter is preferred since horses don't digest "weed" seeds in the hay like cows do.


----------



## mikesolid (Aug 24, 2011)

Graebarde said:


> Mike..
> If your just starting, and want to put some effort into it, I suggest the deep bed system. Start with one bed and go from there. In short it entails removing the sod layer, digging out about two feet of the soil and forking the bottom about 6-8 inches to break up the pan. Then the sod is placed in the hole (with all the weed seeds), and covered with the soil. Composted manure.. or the chopped and composted grass/weeds from the plot, are mixed in with the topsoil. Don't compact it back down as it will settle.
> 
> Now the easiest way there is to do a 18" by 36" section at a time. Put down a tarp to put the sod on, and the dirt you dig out. After you spade the bottom of the hole, take the sod from the next section and flip it into the hole, then the soil, and fork that hole bottom, and continue.. the last hole gets the sod and soil from the first hole. Yeah it's work, but you get excellent growing area, and the weed seeds are burried deep.
> ...


Thank you for the detailed help/advice. It does sound like some work but that's why I'm doing this garden to begin with, to keep me busy. So that's all good here. I think after reading your advice and a few others I may kind of combine them a little bit and see how it works next year. Thanks again.


----------



## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I've used many different manures in my garden over my many years of gardening and all are usable but many need to be hot composted first or you do end up with many weed seeds.
I like horse manure but only if I pick up not only the manure, but the straw bedding that is urine soaked and that was cleaned out of the stalls of a nearby horse farm... I put it on the side of the garden and mixed together(straw/urine/poo) and add a bit of grass clippings and leaves and turn it about every three days and add a bit of water if it is too dry... these piles heat up almost enuf to boil water! If you pile isn't getting hot the weed seed will sprout.
We also let the cow poo compost for a season before using.
Rabbit poo I just sprinkle in the garden as is as it usually isn't hot enuf to burn anything(unless it is too thickly spread)
The alpaca poo is just sprinkled over the garden beds in the fall and by spring it is perfect.
I do not till anything in tho.. I do layers of the materials in my beds and the worms do all the work for me.
Just look up in the library a few books on this.. Ruth Stout has many and there is one called Lasagna gardening.
I don't get much poo any longer(other than my own chicken poo which is totally composted with leaves/grass clippings/straw for almost one year) as chicken poo is HOT.. lol.

My garden soil looks quite a bit like crumbly chocolate cake. It hold moisture and is full of live critters and micro organisms. Even with all the darn grass this year my plants are lush and full.
Once you get your soil "alive" and lush then your plants do so much better.
I don't even have to put any legume inoculate in as once you use it in an area you shouldn't have to add again. But if you have never used it then I can recommend adding it to your gardens.. I saw great improvement once I started using it. The plants just grow bigger and better.
If you get mushrooms in your garden that is a good sign that your soil is alive.. if you get too many then just pull them out..(I did have too many one year-we had a cool wet summer and they just sprouted out everywhere.) 
I don't use any chemicals in my gardens -round up weed killer has be shown to kill microorganisms along with the weeds (it is a cell disruptor) and I personally think our soils must be "alive" to work well and support healthy plants.

Down in the hot southern states, horse manure with the straw should cook much faster than here. Now if it rains too much(like in PNW) a tarp or awning over the pile will really help it cook.. it does need water to cook but not too much.
Some of the nematode problems of the southern states can be fixed by solarizing the soil for one whole year.. Just water well and fix a clear plastic over the area and seal all the edges of the plastic with soil and a few rocks here and there to keep it from blowing away. The sun will cook the soil under the clear plastic and after a good hot summer it should have killed off most of the bad critters. They have also done tests on a marigold planting that seems to kill off nematodes also.


----------

