# Life without electricity?



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

How many could do it? What are you doing to prepare for such an event?

We've lived without electricity and sometimes we question whether it was better then than now that we have solar power. What we'd miss out on is the internet, refrigeration, running water (in the cabin), and the television.

We need the internet for our business (writing) and we'd sorely miss refrigeration if we didn't have it. But really, looking back it wasn't that bad without those things either.

We also have manual powered back-ups for everything essential from grinding grain to cutting firewood.

What about you?


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We'd miss refrigeration and internet but we'd be ok. We've gone 15 days without it in the winter and did pretty good. We have gas heat, hand pump on the well and I hardly use the washer/dryer in the summer.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Its the running water that would hit my family the most. I remember in your book you talked about melting snow. That would get old quickly I suspect. We eat a lot of canned goods because I try not too have too much food in the freezer or fridge. When we lost power three summers ago for a week I was better off then a bunch of people because it went off the day before the grocery store trip and we only had a little bit in there so we didn't loose too much. Of course my sun missed milk so we now keep shelf stable and powdered milk just in case. I had a fully charged lap top battery and limited my son to a half hour of DVD a day. We charged our phone in the car. We also eat at the hospital twice. The hospitals have generators and or are among the first to get power so we went there for dinner a couple times. It hit the high 90s during the day but we survived without AC. I was a little worried about my infant getting too hot but she survived, they didn't have AC when my grandpa was a boy and he got along just fine too. Now we heat with electric and that's a killer. We have a backup propane heater but that too would get expensive after a while.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Electricity is a serious weak point for me, I do have a genny, but even that is finite. Solar, and wind power is beyond our economic ability at this point. With my primitive skills we could survive, but at our age and current health, it wouldn't be easy. I have plans for a root/storm cellar, which would make storing food easier, and I also have plans to put in a deep well hand pump for water. I think manual tools are going to be the way to go in most situations, and I am currently collecting them.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Not sure if you mean could we live without the grid power or could we live without "electricity" period. But assuming you mean grid power, it wouldn't be a big deal. I've been planning for such an event for about 8 years now and I think I'm OK.

I can generate (via solar or hydro) enough electricity to run all the essentials. Refer, lights, microwave, etc.

Our heat comes from a large outdoor wood burning furnace that heats 385 gallons of water which is pumped through a radiant system in the floors. (Pumps run on grid power but can also run on backup batteries.) 

Cooking is done with gas (I have a buried tank that will last for 2 years even if I use it every day which I wouldn't) and the other source of cooking fuel comes form the charcoal that we create in the firebox inside the outdoor wood burner. We use this charcoal several nights a week when we cook in the BGE.

Cooling is not needed much where I'm at (4,000 ft level) as I'm on the side of a mountain and the breeze is almost always enough to be comfortable. On those hotter days we can turn on a low wattage fan that pulls air through a series of 8" pipes buried underground (it's 50* down there) The air is cooled as it moves through the pipes and is dumped into the upstairs part of the house. Generally it keeps the house at 70*. Fan also runs on solar. 

Water is gravity fed to the house from our spring and other water needs are supplied from an underground 1,000 gallon spring fed storage tank with a solar pump. 

I think we're OK. 

EDIT: Below is a picture of the charcoal we make in the outdoor furnace.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

First of all, it is almost impossible to imagine a scenario where there would be NO electricity for long, not because things wouldn't get that bad but just because there are so many ways to generate it if you know how.

Having said that, in the past I have lived without electricity and don't regret it one bit. It is a liberating feeling to know you really don't need any of that stuff. Coming from the perspective of no electricity and then adding in things intentionally gives a different view of things imo. 

With some things like communications, electricity offers possibilities unimaginable without it and it tends to take very little to achieve. While with other things like lighting it is just very convenient and efficient (leds). 

So imo, not likely to happen for long, would be inconvenient, not earth shattering for us personally. 

My ancestors came here, cleared land, built roads, built log houses and buildings, drilled the wells, pumped the water and on and on all without ANY electricity. Now, I am glad to not have to go up against them in a grit and determination competition but surely we have not become completely useless without modern tech.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

No electricity = no blow-dryer = impossible situation for the wife.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

We could do it, would prefer not to but, I would HAVE to build the refrigeration system that is in my head, and figure out a better water solution. electricity does make a lot of things easier, but as other have said there are other ways to make it


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

We'll survive when the whole grid goes down but I'm not looking forward to it. No air conditioning, running water, refrigeration, lighting or computer. We have some battery operated lights but mostly we have hundreds of candles. We have ways to heat our home and cook our food.

We still need to get some motion activated battery powered night lights. I expect our house to be in near total darkness with no power. We'll have to be able to get to the bucket we'll use as a toilet.

I expect to put plywood in front of the windows to block any light from escaping. Hopefully from outside all you'll see will be drapes. Then when the sun comes up I'll move the plywood for the day so we'll have some light in the house.

I'm not sure how our cats will adjust to so much darkness in the house after we go to bed. They can see in low light but not in total darkness. Hopefully they can quietly navigate the house in the dark and still find their food and their litter box. I wouldn't want to wake up to loud meowing in the middle of the night or step in stuff that got deposited on the floor during the night.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I have an inverter/batt set up. It will run everything in the house easily for a week or more, includes both refrigerators, a freezer, well pump, micro ect. We have a propane stove and propane tank-less H/W . I have 3 generators, one propane, one gas and one diesel. I am working on getting solar panels next. I have a small wind generator I hope to put up this summer. If all that goes to hell, I have a wood stove, (cook/heat) lots of oil lamps with gallons of oil, lots of batteries. manual water pump, and a huge library of books. If it means anything I have a motorhome with both 12 volt and 120 volt equipment, has it's own generator, batteries, solar panel, as a backup.

I still like to go camping with no electricity, tent, candles, fishing pole. Peace and quiet and a good book.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

We have a nice size "dorm fridge" about 2x the size of the "mini" ones. I haven't tried to run it on a MSW inverter yet. 
I wish I knew someone who has that can tell me how it works.

That's about it. Everything else does OK with either DC only (LED lighting) from solar power, or runs fine on MSW inverters. 

I may need to get a Pure SW inverter if that is the only thing the fridge likes to feed from.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> How many could do it? What are you doing to prepare for such an event?
> 
> We've lived without electricity and sometimes we question whether it was better then than now that we have solar power. What we'd miss out on is the internet, refrigeration, running water (in the cabin), and the television.
> 
> ...


Getting back to your original post... Can we do it??? Going to have too so best make plans now... I too would miss the internet the most  But we wouldn't have the service anyway... So Geeeze.... Preparing we have been doing for many years but still planning to do more as you will read...

House can be heated with the Wood stove...

Have a well but no hand pump yet but have two well buckets and we have 1700 gal of water stored... We have a pond we can use if we really have too...

As far as refridgeration goes, that's going to be a biggy for a lot of people... We have only the two clay pot system so far and not much room but will hold hubbys insulin ok... We do hope to put in a root cellar...

We acquired 3 gas generators but only have about 90 gal of gas stored with a stabilizer in it...

And we have 3 chain saws and a log spliter but still need a few more manual tools too...

So all and all we're ok but need improvement in some areas... Thanks for your post 

Cooking we have almost 500lbs of propane which we also have a propane generator and some propane heaters...


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> We have a nice size "dorm fridge" about 2x the size of the "mini" ones. I haven't tried to run it on a MSW inverter yet.
> I wish I knew someone who has that can tell me how it works.
> 
> That's about it. Everything else does OK with either DC only (LED lighting) from solar power, or runs fine on MSW inverters.
> ...


We use a MSW to run the one in our motorhome in Nevada. Worked good.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

squerly said:


> Not sure if you mean could we live without the grid power or could we live without "electricity" period. But assuming you mean grid power, it wouldn't be a big deal. I've been planning for such an event for about 8 years now and I think I'm OK.
> 
> I can generate (via solar or hydro) enough electricity to run all the essentials. Refer, lights, microwave, etc.
> 
> ...


Hydro? That's the king of off grid power generation! Do you have a hydro system in place?

We have a neighbor who put in a heating system like yours. They eventually went to grid power. The system just drew too much power during the season when solar power is at it's lowest output. Also, they didn't have near enough solar generating capacity. They had a huge battery bank that never hit 75 percent of full charge for several months of the year. We warned them but ...

Sounds like you have a great set-up.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Planning for life without electricity (or anything else we currently rely on) is probably the wrong way to think about it. Planning to supply it ourselves if the current provider - local infrastructure - went down is maybe a better way to think about it.

Can I live without electricity? Sure, but it would be a pain in the butt. I'd much rather work to put together a monster bank of batteries with solar, wind and microhydroelectric along with conventional means (a genny and lots of gas, an inverter for each vehicle) to keep things going. Getting some appliances designed to run on 12v wouldn't be the worst idea in the world either.

I don't care about TV, but maintaining communications - radio - would be a must-have. Being able to run a 'fridge and/or freezer would be a heck of a lot easier than digging a root cellar and canning everything I have currently in those big white metal boxes.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> I have an inverter/batt set up. It will run everything in the house easily for a week or more, includes both refrigerators, a freezer, well pump, micro ect. We have a propane stove and propane tank-less H/W . I have 3 generators, one propane, one gas and one diesel. I am working on getting solar panels next. I have a small wind generator I hope to put up this summer. If all that goes to hell, I have a wood stove, (cook/heat) lots of oil lamps with gallons of oil, lots of batteries. manual water pump, and a huge library of books. If it means anything I have a motorhome with both 12 volt and 120 volt equipment, has it's own generator, batteries, solar panel, as a backup.
> 
> I still like to go camping with no electricity, tent, candles, fishing pole. Peace and quiet and a good book.


You must have a lot of battery storage capacity to last a week! Sounds like you have your bases covered pretty well! Our motorhomes (we currently have three at various locations) are our bug-out and bug to rigs. They're pretty well self-contained and with some modifications can offer long term sustainable living. Our MH we made from a 14 foot U-Haul truck is well insulated and has a wood burning stove suitable for heating and cooking. It has great ground clearance and is small enough to find some discreet hideaways if that becomes necessary. Our big one in Nevada has solar and wind power with an electric fridge. We'll be putting a wood burning stove in it next winter when we head south. At that point it could be a good home for a long time with very little inconvenience.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

bkt said:


> Planning for life without electricity (or anything else we currently rely on) is probably the wrong way to think about it. Planning to supply it ourselves if the current provider - local infrastructure - went down is maybe a better way to think about it.
> 
> Can I live without electricity? Sure, but it would be a pain in the butt. I'd much rather work to put together a monster bank of batteries with solar, wind and microhydroelectric along with conventional means (a genny and lots of gas, an inverter for each vehicle) to keep things going. Getting some appliances designed to run on 12v wouldn't be the worst idea in the world either.
> 
> I don't care about TV, but maintaining communications - radio - would be a must-have. Being able to run a 'fridge and/or freezer would be a heck of a lot easier than digging a root cellar and canning everything I have currently in those big white metal boxes.


Just remember, the lifespan of batteries is limited! Like us, communications are high on your list. That, in all truth is about the only real reason we'd want electricity. We've been totally off-grid for about ten years now and we love it.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

biobacon said:


> Its the running water that would hit my family the most. I remember in your book you talked about melting snow. That would get old quickly I suspect. We eat a lot of canned goods because I try not too have too much food in the freezer or fridge. When we lost power three summers ago for a week I was better off then a bunch of people because it went off the day before the grocery store trip and we only had a little bit in there so we didn't loose too much. Of course my sun missed milk so we now keep shelf stable and powdered milk just in case. I had a fully charged lap top battery and limited my son to a half hour of DVD a day. We charged our phone in the car. We also eat at the hospital twice. The hospitals have generators and or are among the first to get power so we went there for dinner a couple times. It hit the high 90s during the day but we survived without AC. I was a little worried about my infant getting too hot but she survived, they didn't have AC when my grandpa was a boy and he got along just fine too. Now we heat with electric and that's a killer. We have a backup propane heater but that too would get expensive after a while.


You've come a long way in the last couple of years haven't you! If you get a small inverter that plugs into the cigarette lighter socket (power supply) in your car you can charge your laptop as well. They're nice to have for keeping the kids occupied!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

At my home I would give myself a solid C- when it comes to no grid electricity preparedness. We have a couple portable generators and quite a bit of fuel, numerous propane tanks, lots of kerosene and a few solar powered devices / chargers. I also have a pretty extensive supply of batteries (think CR123a and AA). That's about it. My wife does work for a large oil company that has some pretty serious ethanol, gas and diesel storage not too far out of town, so I suppose in the right situation... Speaking of which, at our motor pool we have several very large generators mounted to trailers. The units are about the size of a van, so I'm guessing they produce a fair amount of power.

At the bug out location we're little better off. We have a large mounted generator as well as some wind turbines. I can't really give you too much detail as this is definitely not my area of expertise. The items listed were installed to greatly reduce dependency on the local utilities not with off grid survival in mind. Last summer we stayed up there for a week and I looked at the utility meter and it was barely turning. Yes, I'm well aware that I need to obtain additional knowledge and skills in this area. 

On a related note, my wife has a friend and the two of them are becoming quite close. They have decided that in the very near future we all need to get together so that her husband and I can socially interact as well (yaaaaa). The interesting part is that he is an electrical engineer who specializes in wind turbine technology. So it should at least be educational.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Just remember, the lifespan of batteries is limited! Like us, communications are high on your list. That, in all truth is about the only real reason we'd want electricity. We've been totally off-grid for about ten years now and we love it.


True, even deep-cycle marine batteries degrade after a while so it's not a permanent solution. But a fairly inexpensive setup should get most people through some tough spots. That, combined with conventional generators and regular motor vehicles, people can get through a lot (provided they have fuel).

So I guess my point was stocking up on things that will help extend the availability of electricity is better than the shock of going without entirely. 

If we're in a situation where the power is off and not coming back on within a year, we probably have bigger problems than running the A/C....


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Lots of good ideas going 'round. I intended this to be a grid-down "forever" situation but didn't explain that well at the beginning. 

Some things to think about though: 

1. Batteries don't last forever. If you buy batteries to store for later use get them "dry charged" meaning the acid hasn't been added to them. With these you get the battery and a plastic bag or container filled with enough acid to fill the cells. The battery will stay "like new" until you add the acid.

2. We use rechargeable AAA AA C & D cell batteries in the desert. They are charged with a solar charger made for that purpose. Get the one with the meter that tells you when they reach full charge. When you have no electricity you'll be surprised how much you depend upon flashlights. (By the way, get some good LED flashlights and headlamps!)

3. You can easily set up a single solar panel to charge an automotive battery which can keep a few things running that would normally be out of commission. Harbor Freight Tools (and others) sell three panel kits if you want a ready made portable solar power system. They are over priced for what you get but they're very convenient to set-up and use. My next book is going to tell how to make a much better portable solar power system for less money. It'll be done within the next month.

4. Get a small (40 watt) inverter that plugs into the power supply socket of your vehicle. It will be enough to charge a laptop computer, cell phone, etc. if the grid goes down temporarily.

5. Get a larger inverter (up to about 750 watts) that has battery clips and use it with an automotive battery. Inverters over 750 watts should probably have bolt on battery clamps to handle the extra power demands. 

6. When purchasing inverters be aware that the cheap ones may have a cooling fan that runs as soon as you turn on the inverter. This is a huge, unnecessary battery drain. I cut the wires to that one to make the battery last longer. Mine has two more fans that are thermostatically controlled if the inverter begins to overheat.

7. The first thing to fail on a cheap inverter is the cooling fan. When ours start to squeal I cut the wires to the fan and continue using them. We still have one that's worked for years with no fan on it. They have a thermostatically controlled switch that shuts the inverter off if they overheat so the danger of fire from overheating is minimal.

8. The fastest way to kill an inverter is to hook it up backwards. (Ask me how I know!) They used to put a fuse on the outside so you could change it when that happened. Now they put it inside the inverter so you have to take the back off the inverter. Even if you know nothing about electronics you have nothing to lose by trying!

9. We have in the past started our vehicle with a charged battery, then removed the battery with the engine running and installed a battery that needed charged. We used the charged battery to power things at home and charged the other battery with the vehicle's alternator while driving to work. Just remember that you should probably keep the vehicle running at least thirty minutes to ensure the second battery has enough of a charge to restart your vehicle when you get off work. In most cases you can completely recharge a battery with about an hour of "run time" in your vehicle. Check with your automotive dealer to see if you can do this with the newer vehicles and their computerized systems.

10. I used to bring a dead battery to work with me and charge it during my shift using my battery charger and their electricity. I'd bring it home at night and take a second battery to work with me the next day. That will work if your electricity is off but it's still on where you work.

*******************************

We began on our homestead with no electricity at all and added it in increments over time. That's much easier than having grid power then losing it altogether. During those early days we got pretty well outfitted to live without electricity. We have hand powered grain grinders, cross-cut saws for firewood, hand tools for garden and construction, a treadle sewing machine (I still use it because it sews a nice tight stitch even now), and everything else we need to live well without electrical power. We have four pressure canners (and I've seen Susan - Gypysue - use all four at once) and thousands of jars. We purchase lids by the case lots but we're gravitating more toward dehydrating everything except meat. Living without electricity is not that difficult but it does require some adjustments. Our ancestors did it for thousands of years! 

It's great to see how people have thought this through. Keep up the comments!


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Mosquitomountainman, one excellent point is that batteries don't last forever, really good batteries can last 15 years if properly maintained.

Some things to think about though: 

1. Batteries don't last forever. If you buy batteries to store for later use get them "dry charged" meaning the acid hasn't been added to them. With these you get the battery and a plastic bag or container filled with enough acid to fill the cells. The battery will stay "like new" until you add the acid.


It's hard to find battery outfits that want you to sell you dry cell type, (no acid installed) Let me know who you have found that sells them that way and will ship you the acid with them. In the old days all the batteries that came to my service station were like that, you filled and charged them, now only some Atv, motorcycle batteries come that way.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

squerly said:


> Not sure if you mean could we live without the grid power or could we live without "electricity" period. But assuming you mean grid power, it wouldn't be a big deal. I've been planning for such an event for about 8 years now and I think I'm OK.
> 
> I can generate (via solar or hydro) enough electricity to run all the essentials. Refer, lights, microwave, etc.
> 
> ...


Skuerly... Sure would like to know more about those pipes... Can you post how you did it and how deep it has to be??? I would really really appreciate that... cooling is just as important as heating when you're elderly... Thanks


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Hydro? That's the king of off grid power generation! Do you have a hydro system in place?
> 
> We have a neighbor who put in a heating system like yours. They eventually went to grid power. The system just drew too much power during the season when solar power is at it's lowest output. Also, they didn't have near enough solar generating capacity. They had a huge battery bank that never hit 75 percent of full charge for several months of the year. We warned them but ...
> 
> Sounds like you have a great set-up.


 I recently built a new home further on up the mountain but I lived in a cabin below that until I built. There is a large creak that passes the cabin (about 25' from my front door) and on that creek I had a water wheel that had all the ability to turn a generator and provide all the power we could ever use. I didn't put it into operation as I knew I would be moving further up the hill in due time. I'll post pictures when I'm operational.

My wood furnace (we refer to it as the Dragon) only requires a few watts to operate the vent solenoid. The pumps (4 or them total) run independently when a zone in the house calls for hot water. Generally there are only 2 pumps operating as we don't heat the downstairs unless we have guests. Each pump pulls less than an amp per hour and they seldom run more than 6-7 hours over a 24 hour day, even when temps were -0 and below. Partially because we built the house facing the south and that side of the house is blessed with very large windows. The sun does a wonderful job of warming the house in the winter so during that time the wood furnace idles.

We installed LED's throughout the house at build time. Cost a small fortune but it pays us back each month. Also we monitor the power meter twice a day so we know where the power goes. It's become a challenge to beat the previous months bill.  Our house is 3,600 sq ft and during the dead of winter my power bill is only $85.00, summer even less.

Regarding your neighbors. My guess is that they had several factors going against them. 1) Many of these systems are built with the main water pump (the closed loop between the wood furnace and the house) running 24/7, which draws power even when the system isn't needed. I designed mine differently so the main pump is active only when a zone calls for it. 2) If this was a retrofit then my guess is that they lack modern day insulation which requires the boiler to work hard to overcome the heat loss.

These factors combined will create a constant 2 amp per hour draw on the battery bank. That's a bunch over a 3 day span of no sun. Also, if it is a retrofit they probably used a water-to-air heat exchanger which allows hot air to blow into the existing HVAC system. Nothing wrong with this, it just isn't as efficient as radiant floors, resulting in more draw on the batteries.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Beaniemaster2 said:


> Skuerly... Sure would like to know more about those pipes... Can you post how you did it and how deep it has to be??? I would really really appreciate that... cooling is just as important as heating when you're elderly... Thanks


Sure Beaniemaster.  The pipes (about 120' of them if I remember correctly) are buried about 14' underground. (Temp at that depth remains a constant 50*) We needed a 14' retaining wall to hold the mountain back and I put my pipes (3 rows of 40' each) down at the bottom rear of this wall. Then we back filled the wall.

We leave the windows in the basement open at night (which is cement on 3 sides as well as the floor) and the cool is stored in the cement. Then during the day a fan pulls the air out of that room, through the buried pipes, and drops it into vents in the upstairs living area. Works quite well.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Lived without electricity, at my home, for a year when I lived in NE PA. Granted this was in the early 1980's before all the necessities like internet, a computer, game system, flat screen TV and all were mandatory equipment. I did not live without electricity though! I could still drive my truck to the station to fill-up on gas and fill the kerosene jugs for lighting. The store still had lights, refrigeration and all that.

When it was light out, you were outside, working at home or somewhere else. When it got dark you went home and were inside with limited illumination. In the winter, lots of picking tunes by the stove, sipping wine that you made the summer before and eating what you grew that summer. Summer, it was up early, out working all day, come home late, eat and go to bed. Remember that wine and firewood you used last winter? Well, now is the time to make enough to get you through!

"Life without electricity" would be devastating to a majority of the world. Let me qualify that as most of the 'civilized world.' Lots of folks elsewhere live without electricity and would most likely never know there was an issue. Like Appalachia when the depression hit, most of them had no idea! You would have to live with what you had on hand with no possibility of replacements. 'Living without electricity' at your home is different.

I have prepared to live without outside electric for a limited time. I have two solar battery chargers and plenty of AAA thru D cells to charge for things I use. No solar panels at this time. No generator either, I would just do without. I do have a number of the solar outside lights which do a great job of illuminating inside, you just can't 'turn then off' when needed. I would just do without the computer, TV and all that. For news I have the hand crank radio's with solar capabilities, battery options and will get lots of bands. I have no need to have the ability to 'call' anyone and talk to them, that is what neighbors are for. As MMM mentioned the LED headlights are the bomb!!! Mine do red, white and spot light with a turn on the knob. Anywhere you turn your head to look, there is light!!! HIGHLY recommended piece of equipment, get several.

Bottom line. Yes, folks can survive without grid power. You will have to look at power differently. I have never lived on battery power, but with kerosene, if you leave a room you either turn off the light or turn it down. Much different from walking into a 'modern' home where every room is illuminated. No need to turn a light on going from one room to another, it is already on! Going to bed, you leave a few lights on, just in case you have to get up at night.

My short stint without has lived with me lo these many years, I am a light turner offer. When I leave a room, I turn the light off. With incandescent bulbs it is an immediate savings in electricity. My home has one light on at a time, the room I am in.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

cowboyhermit said:


> ...
> Having said that, in the past I have lived without electricity and don't regret it one bit. It is a liberating feeling to know you really don't need any of that stuff. Coming from the perspective of no electricity and then adding in things intentionally gives a different view of things....


I have lived off grid for several extended periods of time (years), a few of those times with an infant and then toddler/small child and this sums up perfectly my opinion. One of the reasons I prep with a 'skills before stuff' mentality.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

LincTex said:


> We have a nice size "dorm fridge" about 2x the size of the "mini" ones. I haven't tried to run it on a MSW inverter yet.
> I wish I knew someone who has that can tell me how it works.
> 
> That's about it. Everything else does OK with either DC only (LED lighting) from solar power, or runs fine on MSW inverters.
> ...


Linc,

I'm running one of those sized fridges on a MSW inverter just fine. It's a 2000W unit from harbor freight I get 3 lights on the display when the fridge starts up and then it slowly drops to 1 light indicating power draw. I'm running that a few fans and while it was still cold a heat lamp for the chicken coop on the homestead. You've seen the pics of my setup on other threads, running 640w panels into a bank of 555AH 12V batts. The MPPT charger is worth its weight in gold though and I feel makes all the difference in the world!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Lake Windsong said:


> I have lived off grid for several extended periods of time (years), a few of those times with an infant and then toddler/small child and this sums up perfectly my opinion. One of the reasons I prep with a 'skills before stuff' mentality.


Infants and the elderly definitely put living without electricity to the test

The funny thing is, most of the "luxury" and convenience things we wouldn't miss because we have alternatives and/or the ability to make them. We have a gravity feed water system to the house but it is a treat to use a wood heated sauna/outdoor shower/hot tub that doesn't use any electricity (and costs next to nothing) When it was one of those bag type camping showers (still keep them around) it really wasn't bad but nobody would have considered it a treat

Same for lighting, it never seems like a hardship to spend the evening in candlelight (we have bees and cows so the supply is endless) it seems like a bit of an indulgence. Leds are just so much more efficient than burning lovely (and valuable) beeswax.

We are lucky (imo anyways) to live in a place where most people don't even have air-conditioning, otherwise that would be a huge concern for me (I melt). We don't use electricity for heating or cooking anyways, it's easy and cheap to do in other ways :dunno:

Aside from communications one other big thing I would miss it for (not that I can see it happening) is security. Cameras in particular can be a HUGE "force multiplier" that I would rather not have to be without.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

I look to the past ... need a refrigerator think spring house... 

I'm not much on solar this or that, give me tried and true products, wood cook stove, Aladdin lamps or candles and bath via the river ... :chilly: (even in the summer)

Think Little house ...


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

*Andi said:


> I look to the past ... need a refrigerator think spring house...
> 
> I'm not much on solar this or that, give me tried and true products, wood cook stove, Aladdin lamps or candles and bath via the river ... :chilly: (even in the summer)
> 
> Think Little house ...


Thank you! That's one of the first things that came to my mind in reading through the posts on "Life without electricity?" A spring house for us would work because I have a constant enough flow out of our cistern that could be used to cool a few things and then that outflow would go down to water the garden, fruit and nut trees as it does presently. Ever since we moved to S.W. Oregon we have heated with a wood stove, that being said I did install an electric heater in the bathroom and one in the bedroom (that one hasn't been used since it was installed), I guess one might say that the bathroom heater is a guilty pleasure that would be missed in a life without grid electricity. I figure that I may have our solar standby system for fridges, freezer and a few lights on line within a year. Meanwhile we are constantly working on a food storage systems that doesn't require refrigeration. Having designed a gravity feed water supply to begin with certainly has knock off what it would cost to pump water and does put us at a level closer to the point of living without grid power.


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

As MMM stated earlier, a 40W inverter for the car's lighter socket is nice but for those without laptops and are getting by with just a tablet, I would think that a 2 port USB car charger/plug with at least 1 socket with 2/2.1A output would be fine.
A lot of electronics nowadays run off USB. I have in my BOB a Goal Zero Nomad 7 solar panel and a Guide 10 Plus AA/AAA charger/battery bank.
I even have an XTAR MC1 lithium-ion battery charger that charges through micro USB. I can charge my 18650s via solar or even the car charger.
Cell phones and tablets can also be charged via USB in the car and I can also charge my power bank as well.
Oh and I also have a small USB fan. I have 2 rechargeable electric fans at home that have lead-acid batteries and a night light. Keeps things comfy.

I'm saving up for a solar setup since we are near the equator and sun is plentiful. Often a little too much. It's summer here and it's 98.6F with over 75% humidity. Air conditioning is a godsend. Will start with a setup for just the fridge and to charge my electronics and as backup power. Then move up to airconditioning.
The house is 100% LED and the whole place is only 100 watts.

It's a small place though and the biggest challenge for me right now is water storage. Saving up to have a tank put on the roof.


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## Beaniemaster2 (May 22, 2012)

Besides the 2 Clay pot system, here is a fridge to build... Does anyone have any other ways to build a fridge???? Thanks

http://celac.wordpress.com/2007/06/18/54/


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I lived without electricity for a time. Beer, soda, and a few other items were kept in the creek. Meat was purchased in quantities small enough to be used up before the ice was gone. I did without some perishables but for the the most part life seemed fairly normal. 

Today living off grid does not seem to big of a deal but I do need some electricity to survive, literally. I lived two year off grid with a medical device so I know that with a battery bank and a way to charge it I'm fine.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

ZangLussuria said:


> As MMM stated earlier, a 40W inverter for the car's lighter socket is nice but for those without laptops and are getting by with just a tablet, I would think that a 2 port USB car charger/plug with at least 1 socket with 2/2.1A output would be fine.
> A lot of electronics nowadays run off USB. I have in my BOB a Goal Zero Nomad 7 solar panel and a Guide 10 Plus AA/AAA charger/battery bank.
> ...


Good points! We have a 2 port charger and the same Goal Zero system. WE tested the Goal Zero system while in Nevada last winter and it worked great for tablets and smaller appliances. It took a couple of days of charging to recharge a notebook computer.

We're also testing a couple of options from Harbor Freight tools. One is a very small (pocket sized) charger with built in battery pack for cell phones. The other is a "suitcase" type solar charger advertised for keeping an automotive battery from running down. It's basically a 1 amp trickle charger. It comes with both male and female cigarette lighter plugs and battery clips which means it has other possibilities as well.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I can do it, and have when a couple hurricanes hit. The majoe inconvenience for me has been shortened days with a lack of light to work by. I would evetually run out of batteries and candles.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I have an adaptor that goes from the cigarette lighter plug to a USB and a cable that goes from USB to three different plug adaptors. I plug my phone into one and my laptop into the larger one. My wife uses it for he tablet also. I think the whole setup cost me around fifteen bucks. Traveling across country we have charged two or three items between gas stops with time to spare. It seems to charge quickly.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Viking said:


> that being said I did install an electric heater in the bathroom , I guess one might say that the bathroom heater is a guilty pleasure that would be missed in a life without grid electricity.


Nawww.... that's just a good excuse to build a small Sauna!!!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> It took a couple of days of charging to recharge a notebook computer.


If you are really lucky, the back of the notebook where the charging jack is will say: "Input 12 VDC"... If that's the case, you have an IDEAL way to charge! No gimmicks, just a simple cord and nothing else needed.



mosquitomountainman said:


> The other is a "suitcase" type solar charger advertised for keeping an automotive battery from running down. It's basically a 1 amp trickle charger. It comes with both male and female cigarette lighter plugs and battery clips which means it has other possibilities as well.


I am sure they work fine, but I can't justify the cost for what you are getting. You can probably get a genuine 30 watt panel for what the HF gimmick charger costs. Their stuff gets *REALLY* expensive for what you get at the lower watt rated products.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LincTex said:


> Nawww.... that's just a good excuse to build a small Sauna!!!


I have to say that that heater is the most efficient resistance heater I've ever seen. Yeah, it will make a sauna out of the bathroom in a hurry.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Basically a power outage is what every prepper preps for isn't it? Whether it be a short term thing where the wind knocks a tree across the electric line or much longer term outage from a bigger source. We should all have some way to survive with out power at least for awhile. I am up to 275 watts on my motor home now with four storage batteries. In a long term situation I would have to take the batteries from my other vehicles to add a little more power storage. I am always in the market for cheap solar panels at yard sales (I just got another 75 watts of new in the box solar for cheap). Solar works great out here. I have had only one day of rain this year so far. But I have a plan for water too!


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

hiwall said:


> Basically a power outage is what every prepper preps for isn't it? Whether it be a short term thing where the wind knocks a tree across the electric line or much longer term outage from a bigger source. We should all have some way to survive with out power at least for awhile. I am up to 275 watts on my motor home now with four storage batteries. In a long term situation I would have to take the batteries from my other vehicles to add a little more power storage. I am always in the market for cheap solar panels at yard sales (I just got another 75 watts of new in the box solar for cheap). Solar works great out here. I have had only one day of rain this year so far. But I have a plan for water too!


Do you have a generator onboard? How/where are you mounting your panels, on the ground or roof of M/H? I'm designing a swivel base that folds down for the rear area of my M/H that will hold 2 maybe 4 panels. The small one up front now keeps the starting batteries topped off. I am also planning to mount a pole on the ladder to the roof for the 400 watt wind generator.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Caribou said:


> I have an adaptor that goes from the cigarette lighter plug to a USB and a cable that goes from USB to three different plug adaptors. .


I think that is what I have from Best Buy?? What is the difference in an inverter and an a/c adaptor??

Also, is it adamant to always have the car engine running to charge?? I haven't found the answer to this and been looking hard. (( Yes, I'm married, but he isn't mechanical and forgot half of what he knows--beginning dementia))

Thanks for anyone explaining.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I've lived approximately 1/3 of my life without power, ANY power, not even a torch. 

While I was at high school my parents lived in a small shed, no power at all.
I had to get up in the morning and put a 20 quart drum on the campfire to heat my shower water then climb a ladder to pour into a drum on the roof. The climate was pretty good, only got a few degrees below freezing in winter, just as well as there was NO HEATING at all. I survived just fine. We hand washed our own clothes and my father would bring home perishables on a daily basis. No modern conveniences at all, not even a telephone. Lighting was 2 hurricane lamps, not great to do your homework by .

Fast forward a few years.. my first house was all electric. After living there for 6 months I decided that I was going to 'go bush' again. To save money and get back into living without power I turned off everything except the electric stove and hotwater, kept them on as I didn't want to spend any money on alternatives. No power there for 18 months, the time it took to sell it. No problem with refridgeration as perishables came from the back yard (I had 1/2 acre). Two milking goats (feed was cut from roadsides and vacant blocks) and grew all our vegies and fruit. Meat was fish from the Murray river or bought when needed.

From there I moved onto a 40 acre property, just trees and dirt. Not even a fence and no pasture. The house was built without electricity, all with hand tools. I did borrow the neighbours tractor and concrete mixer to lay down the kitchen and bathroom floors as I was about to have my first child and the council would not let me move into the house until this was done. The 'modern' conveniences I had were kerosene lighting and refridgeration. 

Daily living.

Hot water and cooking - Wood stove in the kitchen. Wood was cut with an cross cut, axe or smashed apart with a sledge hammer.
Water pumping - Windmill into tanks, gravity fed back to house.
Heating - Wood heater in main room.
Washing clothes - Hand pump washing machine, wood fired copper and scrubbing board. 
Refridgeration - Kerosene for the first few years then just the cellar. 
Workshop - All hand tools. Scavenged from scrap dealers, old farm rubbish pits and a few from collectors sales.
Lighting - Kerosene pressure lamps, wick/mantle and hurricane lamps.
Toilet - Tin type, in a small shed up behind the orchard.
Garden water - I fired up the main pump for 6 hours a week, driven by an old Holden engine. Would pump to 70 large irrigation sprinklers. Two more windmills could have replaced this. 

I shopped for non perishables twice per year. Everything else came off the farm. 

Dairy products.

Milk fresh twice per day.
I would save milk for 1 1/2 days, then seperate the cream and make butter. If the milk was beginning to sour this was fine as the milk was clean and healthy and made the best cultured butter.
Extra milk was made into cheese and yoghurt.
The kerosene fridge (while we used it) was so full of milk most of the time there was no room for anything else.
Whey went to the pigs, extra extra milk was made into 'farm yoghurt' and fed to pigs and poultry.

Meat.

I killed poultry as needed. Chicken, duck, goose, pheasant, quail and turkey.
I killed about one sheep per month, pickled half of it and ate the rest over two or three days (party time  ). The pickle drum sat under the sink in the kitchen until the cellar was built.
I killed a pig every 8 weeks or so, timed NOT to happen over the hottest months. This was salted then smoked. The sides were heavy smoked for about 4 days then I'd keep a little smoke happening until the meat was used up, this would keep flies away and reseal cut edges as we used it. By the end of a few weeks some would be like hard dry jerky.... delicious. 

Vegetables.

Picked fresh, stored in the cellar, dried or pickled. No pressure canners in Australia back then.

Fruit.

Fresh, canned, stored in the cellar or dried. We could pick fresh fruit from October until August. Starting with English gooseberries and finishing with Kiwi fruit and apples. 

Since then I've lived in everything from a normal house in a town on the grid (renovating the whole time so only some power available) to a ruin (stone walls almost no roof when I bought it) with grid available in the shed for the first few years to where I am now. We have a mix of grid power and off grid power with a fair amount of non electric tools etc. We heat and cook with wood, no airconditioning (inland Australia is HOT  ), half our lights are LED running off of a battery (solar recharge), water is solar and wind, with mains back up if really needed. We have been working toward off grid for a few years, only reason we haven't flicked the switch is a few health issues that we need to adapt for. My daughter will keep grid on at her house (100 yards away) as she uses it for her poultry incubators. For things like the welder and plasma we have a generator. 

Hubby hasn't lived without grid power before but I don't think it'll bother him too much as long as he can weld and cut . I'd like to be able to use my tablesaw, thickneser and router table. Electric fences are something I don't want to go without, but most are solar anyway, long term the pigs could be penned and grazed during the day only. I don't need power to the house but I won't wash clothes by hand again, too time consuming, we have a belt drive machine that can use wind power to run. Washing gets done on windy days only. 

Our situation is possible because of where we live BUT we live here to make it possible. I've never thought of this lifestyle as hard or that I have been deprived of anything, it's just how it is, you get used to it. It becomes normal really fast. 

I should add that the period of time that I lived on the 40 acres I was really out of the loop, missed all the news from the late 1980's until the mid 1990's, a lot happened in those years that I had not a clue about. They were the least stressful years of my life.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

JayJay said:


> I think that is what I have from Best Buy?? What is the difference in an inverter and an a/c adaptor??
> 
> Also, is it adamant to always have the car engine running to charge?? I haven't found the answer to this and been looking hard. (( Yes, I'm married, but he isn't mechanical and forgot half of what he knows--beginning dementia))
> 
> Thanks for anyone explaining.


An inverter converts your battery DC power to AC power. Your AC adapter, that you get when you buy a laptop or phone, converts the AC from the wall to the DC power for your portable device.

Some people will transform the DC (battery) to AC, using an inverter, and then back to DC using the wall charger that came with the device. Many of these can be charged directly from a 12V source without the loss associated with changing voltages.

On my car you can use the cigarette lighter plug in when the ignition is off.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> Do you have a generator onboard? How/where are you mounting your panels, on the ground or roof of M/H? I'm designing a swivel base that folds down for the rear area of my M/H that will hold 2 maybe 4 panels. The small one up front now keeps the starting batteries topped off. I am also planning to mount a pole on the ladder to the roof for the 400 watt wind generator.


Right now I have 175 watts mounted flat on the roof and 100 watts loose that I deploy separate so if I park in the shade I can move the 100 watts into the sunny areas. We get little wind here so a wind generator would not be a good choice. I do not have a gas generator. Everything is 12 volt or 120 volt(only the refrigerator).


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> If you are really lucky, the back of the notebook where the charging jack is will say: "Input 12 VDC"... If that's the case, you have an IDEAL way to charge! No gimmicks, just a simple cord and nothing else needed.
> 
> I am sure they work fine, but I can't justify the cost for what you are getting. You can probably get a genuine 30 watt panel for what the HF gimmick charger costs. Their stuff gets *REALLY* expensive for what you get at the lower watt rated products.


I got it on sale so the price wasn't that bad. It's got some good and bad points and my plans are to adapt it for charging laptop computers, etc. rather than maintaining full charge on a battery. Mainly I wanted to do some evaluating and experimenting.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Viking said:


> I have to say that that heater is the most efficient resistance heater I've ever seen. Yeah, it will make a sauna out of the bathroom in a hurry.


ALL resistance heaters are 100% efficient with a Power Factor of 1.00

I think you meant to say - it has a high output 
(which also means "high wattage draw device")


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> The small one up front now keeps the starting batteries topped off.


Does your RV circuit have a diode that automatically sends charging current to your accessory batteries once the starting battery is fully charged?

Some do, while others will only charge aux batteries if the engine is running.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

JayJay said:


> What is the difference in an inverter and an a/c adapter??


Any device which effectively turns 12 VDC battery power up to 120 VAC "house" power can effectively be called an "inverter".

Common "adapters" usually drop 120 VAC down to 12 VDC or less



JayJay said:


> Also, is it adamant to always have the car engine running to charge?? I haven't found the answer to this and been looking hard.
> Thanks for anyone explaining.


The answer to this is: It depends on the device.

The GOOD ones can charge even without the engine running, but they ALSO will *shut off* once the voltage drops below a certain level.... that way you can still start your car!

The bad ones don't do a good job of charging if the input voltage is too low... and they do not have "low-voltage shutdown protection". They can continue to draw your battery down below safe levels, if left unattended.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

LincTex said:


> Does your RV circuit have a diode that automatically sends charging current to your accessory batteries once the starting battery is fully charged?
> 
> Some do, while others will only charge aux batteries if the engine is running.


Nope, but it's something I will look into, Thanks :wave:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

thanks, Linc.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LincTex said:


> ALL resistance heaters are 100% efficient with a Power Factor of 1.00
> 
> I think you meant to say - it has a high output
> (which also means "high wattage draw device")


240 VAC 2,000 watt small fan. I've seen a lot of electric heaters over the years but this is the best I've ever owned.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

The only elec. we need here at BOL is batteries hooked to solar to charge phones. We heat and cook with wood and propane.lights are efficient dc leds. We also have about 8 months of AA and AAA batteries for headlamps. Also oil and kerosene lamps. No tv but I would miss the radio as well as internet and cell phone. House is a different situation.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

musketjim said:


> The only elec. we need here at BOL is batteries hooked to solar to charge phones. We heat and cook with wood and propane.lights are efficient dc leds. We also have about 8 months of AA and AAA batteries for headlamps. Also oil and kerosene lamps. No tv but I would miss the radio as well as internet and cell phone. House is a different situation.


You could get a solar battery charger for AA, AAA, C, D batteries and get a portable CD/ USB player for music. Your laptop if it has a DVD player gives movie capability and can be charged by solar.... :wave:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> You could get a solar battery charger for AA, AAA, C, D batteries and get a portable CD/ USB player for music. Your laptop if it has a DVD player gives movie capability and can be charged by solar.... :wave:


Test the solar battery chargers. Ours take about three days to recharge four "D" cells and two days for AA's.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

We just lost power for the second time in a week as I was reading this thread. The Goal Zero battery packs and solar panels in our camping equipment are coming in pretty handy. Got them for portability, but they see us through temporary outages well.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

musketjim said:


> ... but I would miss the radio ...


My Grundig G8 (at work) will run about 6 mos on 2 AA batteries that are too dead to run anything else 

The one at home will also run on one small solar panel while charging 3 AA's at the same time (my own mod)

I have never tried to see how long "new" batteries will last!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Test the solar battery chargers. Ours takeout three days to recharge four "D" cells and two days for AA's.


This is *EXACTLY* why I don't have any "solar battery chargers". They are a rip-off for what you pay.

I only use AA, AAA, C, D battery chargers that have *12 volt DC input*.

That way the juice comes from the rest of the solar array: as much as is needed, is available to draw from! The "built it" solar panel on most "solar battery chargers" is just too blasted small.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> Your laptop if it has a DVD player gives movie capability and can be charged by solar....


If your laptop or DVD player has "*12 VDC*" on the hole where you plug the charger into it, you can run it directly off of a car battery (solar charged of course) and forgo using little "cells".


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

LincTex said:


> This is *EXACTLY* why I don't have any "solar battery chargers". They are a rip-off for what you pay.
> 
> I only use AA, AAA, C, D battery chargers that have *12 volt DC input*.
> 
> That way the juice comes from the rest of the solar array: as much as is needed, is available to draw from! The "built it" solar panel on most "solar battery chargers" is just too blasted small.


Such good information in this thread, although electrical speak is always a little foreign to me. I have recently purchased a charger that charges all types of AA, AAA, C, and D batteries. After purchasing it, I questioned my decision of needing electricity to charge batteries in a grid down situation.

Any suggestions for books or somewhere to learn more about how to work with electricity?


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

LincTex said:


> If your laptop or DVD player has "*12 VDC*" on the hole where you plug the charger into it, you can run it directly off of a car battery (solar charged of course) and forgo using little "cells".


I looked at my Sony laptop it takes 19.5 volt, however a very small 12v inverter will work. There are thousands of 12v appl. and items from coffee makers on down. Solar panels for batt chargers are almost worthless unless you keep them in the sun (that is if you have lots of sun) and have several batts to exchange. For MusketJim a larger mounted panel and a couple 6V cart batteries would do since he is only there part time. If he had to use his place more at least he would have a better system for longer term limited use.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> I looked at my Sony laptop it takes 19.5 volt, however a very small 12v inverter will work. There are thousands of 12v appl. and items from coffee makers on down. Solar panels for batt chargers are almost worthless unless you keep them in the sun (that is if you have lots of sun) and have several batts to exchange. For MusketJim a larger mounted panel and a couple 6V cart batteries would do since he is only there part time. If he had to use his place more at least he would have a better system for longer term limited use.


Yeah, unfortunately most laptops these days are higher voltage (and odd numbers). An inverter will work but so will a 12V "power supply" they sometimes make model specific ones (or at least they did) but the "universal" ones work fine ime. Since they are just a DC-DC converter as opposed to using an inverter DC-AC-DC it is typically a moderately more efficient method. A lot of portable DVD players do have 12V inputs and anything smaller can usually be found in USB which again can be used with a DC-DC unit rather than through an inverter.


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## timmie (Jan 14, 2012)

we have no electricity at our farm....personally i prefer it ... not only do i not have to pay a power bill, i enjoy spending quality time with family and friends.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

timmie said:


> we have no electricity at our farm....personally i prefer it ... not only do i not have to pay a power bill, i enjoy spending quality time with family and friends.


I guess you must be at work, since you are on the net using a computer..


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## timmie (Jan 14, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> I guess you must be at work, since you are on the net using a computer..


yeah!!!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

helicopter5472 said:


> I guess you must be at work, since you are on the net using a computer..


Or a smart phone recharging from a vehicle?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> I have recently purchased a charger that charges all types of AA, AAA, C, and D batteries. After purchasing it, I questioned my decision of needing electricity to charge batteries in a grid down situation.


If it requires 120 vac input (standard American household outlet) you MIGHT be able to use it with an inverter, but no guarantees.

If you have a "pure sine wave" inverter (versus "modified sine wave") then the chances of it working go up a LOT, but there is still a lot of costs involved and also lost efficiency.

In short, it would be best to sell it and buy one that can charge AA, AAA, C, and D batteries from a 12 VDC source for a better long-term solution.



weedygarden said:


> Any suggestions for books or somewhere to learn more about how to work with electricity?


Hmmm... not without getting into a lot of theory. 
What you need is an experimenter's kit with the manual, like this. 
This one is $27, but you can find them (or anything similar) used for less:

http://www.rpelectronics.com/ep-50-50-in-one-experimenter-kit.html

Notice the red corner says "Learn By Doing"!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> Any suggestions for books or somewhere to learn more about how to work with electricity?


As always, just post your question here and we'll help!!!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> I looked at my Sony laptop it takes 19.5 volt, .


You might be surprised..... if you have scrap cord with a plug that fits, add a couple alligator clips (red for pos, black for neg) and hook it to a car battery. Sometimes they still charge a little bit 

I have a printer that uses 18VDC input, and it will still print from a 12 volt battery but the scanner won't work. No biggie.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*My younger years without power.*

Life without electricity wow it definitely brings back many memories, our relatives home in the hills the home I spend all my summers and greatest childhood memories on top of a mountain surrounded by a river of sugar cane and coffee had no electricity, all cooking was done on a wood/charcoal stove made from river stones, water came from a hand pump inside the kitchen/ dining room house, very cool, bread was brought in every two weeks from the nearest town and hung in a burlap sack in the root cellar house along with the hams and sausages and all the tubers there was a wood box full of saw dust for the 100 pound block of ice that kept the freshly made butter, cheese and homemade fruit wines that kept the elders smiling,, also jams and jellies, without refrigeration our meats were salted or fried and cover in lard in metal cans if you wanted bird meat just grab one by the neck, fresh eggs, salted dry fish or fresh from the river alone with crabs, everything came in 50-100 pound sacks or barrels, we lived in the city so on our trips there father would bring in fresh bakery goods and other essentials but above all it was a wonderful simple hard working life of homemade everything where everybody had a job and nobody complain and if we only had a canner it would have been like paradise .In the many events that I have been in, weather related, people have behave like wild dogs after a few days without power and those have been events with previous warnings, can you imagine a longer no warning event. A cold/hot drink depending on the season is very refreshing for the mind, be ready and plan accordingly.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

musketjim said:


> The only elec. we need here at BOL is batteries hooked to solar to charge phones. We heat and cook with wood and propane.lights are efficient dc leds. We also have about 8 months of AA and AAA batteries for headlamps. Also oil and kerosene lamps. No tv but I would miss the radio as well as internet and cell phone. House is a different situation.


I have a solar battery charger--could use it more if the planes would stop delivering chemtrails daily..oh, our gardens suffer also.:brickwall:


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

JayJay said:


> I have a solar battery charger--could use it more if the planes would stop delivering chemtrails daily..oh, our gardens suffer also.:brickwall:


Hahaha. This site gets better all the time


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

JayJay said:


> I have a solar battery charger--could use it more if the planes would stop delivering chemtrails daily..oh, our gardens suffer also.:brickwall:


Actually this is not a laughing matter. My wife and I took a trip to the VA in Portland a number of weeks back and contrails/chemtrails crisscrossed the sky so heavily that they reduced the available sunlight, what do you think it does for farms needing sun for their crops?


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Fam is getting a crash course in primitive showering. Limited to 2 gallon a piece to wash body and hair.


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