# fine over eagle death



## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Nev. wind farm could face fine over eagle death

.-An eastern Nevada wind farm could face a fine of up to $200,000 over the death of a golden eagle. 
The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is investigating the bird's death at the Spring Valley Wind Farm near the Utah border, 350 miles east of Reno, spokesman Jeannie Stafford said.

San Francisco-based Pattern Energy, owner of the 152-megawatt wind energy project that sells power to Las Vegas-based NV Energy, turned over the dead eagle to federal authorities within 36 hours of its discovery in February.

Despite reporting the death, the wind farm could face a fine because it does not hold a federal "take" permit that would allow the incidental death of a golden or bald eagle, the Las Vegas Review-Journal reported (http://bit.ly/Yvz3qs ).

Eagles receive special protection under federal law.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_22906700/nv-wind-farm-could-face-fine-over-eagle


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Made me think about an incident we had here a couple years ago.

We were keeping the bantam chickens in the fenced yard with the dogs. We heard a ruckus and looked outside to find a Red-Tail Hawk trying to make off with one of the chickens. The border collie raced out in the yard to investigate and ran right toward the commotion. The hawk quickly took flight upon seeing the dog running towards him but I have to wonder; what would be the consequences if she would have caught the hawk?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

According the the disclaimer on the DVD I could face a $250,000 fine for showing a Disney movie to my 3rd grade class.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> According the the disclaimer on the DVD I could face a $250,000 fine for showing a Disney movie to my 3rd grade class.


 I must be really tired tonight.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

*Andi said:


> Nev. wind farm could face fine over eagle death
> 
> .An eastern Nevada wind farm could face a fine of up to $200,000 over the death of a golden eagle.
> The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is investigating the bird's death at the Spring Valley Wind Farm near the Utah border, 350 miles east of Reno, spokesman Jeannie Stafford said.
> ...


Betcha after all this is settled they will NEVER come forth with another eagle...


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> I must be really tired tonight.


I thought this guy was retired military... now a 3rd grade teacher?


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> According the the disclaimer on the DVD I could face a $250,000 fine for showing a Disney movie to my 3rd grade class.


That's not the same thing. Not unless you're the subject of a ongoing criminal investigation.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Guess it is time to place shovels at the bottom of the towers. Where are all the tree huggers? They wanted these windmills. Maybe we should shut them all down?

One last question....

*HOW MUCH OF MY TAX MONEY IS GOING TO BE WASTED ON THIS STUPIDITY?*


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## Tex (Oct 31, 2008)

cnsper said:


> Guess it is time to place shovels at the bottom of the towers.


^^This^^ .


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

seanallen said:


> Betcha after all this is settled they will NEVER come forth with another eagle...


I would imagine it was an "environmentalist" in the first place... a hard lesson learned!

It's also "natural selection" for birds with no peripheral vision!



cnsper said:


> Guess it is time to place shovels at the bottom of the towers.


No kidding.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> I thought this guy was retired military... now a 3rd grade teacher?


Come on Grimm; He teaches 1970's military tactics to a a 3rd grade class by using Disney movies at great personal and financial risk. Show some respect. 

As far as the Eagle goes, I would hope that there is room for a warning for companies who voluntarily bring the matter forward with honesty and no ill intent is found. I can see fining those companies who would conceal the fact. Of course this isn't about the bird or it's protection, it's about bureaucracy and money.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

One of the guys who drives for the company I work for ( tractor trailer) unknowingly hit a red tailed hawk late one night. Hawk stuck in the faring on top of the tractor. While stopped at a delivery a Missouri conservation officer spotted it and wrote the driver a ticket. The driver went to court and luckily got it dismissed because it would have been a $10,000 fine. He didn't even know it happened until the warden walked up to him.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Grimm said:


> I thought this guy was retired military... now a 3rd grade teacher?


Most guys do twenty and then do somethin' else. I went on to get a couple of college degrees and teach school a little. In my spare time I paddled down the Mississippi and walked from Georgia to Maine.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> Most guys do twenty and then do somethin' else. I went on to get a couple of college degrees and teach school a little. In my spare time I paddled down the Mississippi and walked from Georgia to Maine.


In that case you just very well might know what you're talking about when it comes to BOB's and weight limits. Ok feller, heres a question: since you are former military is there any major difference between a thirdgrader immaturity and some of these upper echelon so called ossifer maturity? Some of the info im getting down the pipeline indicates that a large % of career types are gonna say f$&k citizens if/when SHTF.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

My disdain for officers in near 100%.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

seanallen said:


> In that case you just very well might know what you're talking about when it comes to BOB's and weight limits. Ok feller, heres a question: since you are former military is there any major difference between a thirdgrader immaturity and some of these upper echelon so called ossifer maturity? Some of the info im getting down the pipeline indicates that a large % of career types are gonna say f$&k citizens if/when SHTF.


Back to OP ...

Please.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

*Andi said:


> Back to OP ...
> 
> Please.


Aye Aye Sir.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

That would be Aye Aye Ma'am.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Uh... Sorry maam! Jeez i wish this forum had user listing. Kinda confusing. My sincerest apologies, Andi.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

seanallen said:


> Uh... Sorry maam! Jeez i wish this forum had user listing. Kinda confusing. My sincerest apologies, Andi.


LOL yup. I agree.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

seanallen said:


> Uh... Sorry maam! Jeez i wish this forum had user listing. Kinda confusing. My sincerest apologies, Andi.


You are not the first to make the mistake, nor will you be the last ...

Big clue ~ "I am the momma-bear your daddy warned you about" ... 

But no problems ...

As for the eagle this is the third report I read telling of an eagle getting killed at a wind farm ... On a side note ~ I wonder if an eagle is killed via a plane, if they must also pay a fine?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

101airborne said:


> While stopped at a delivery a Missouri conservation officer spotted it and wrote the driver a ticket..... He didn't even know it happened until the warden walked up to him.


That officer needs to be fired for lack of intelligence. Should have never even made it to court!!


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

A good example of why cops don't get to fine people.


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

I volunteer in the rehab dept. of a raptor rehabilitation center. Sadly we get gunshot birds in ALL THE TIME. Alls birds of prey (and yard birds too) are federally protected....that means...um ...NOTHING! We have had numerous cases of witnesses turning in the shooters, several cases of the game warden SEEING the shooting...oh they get a citation to go to court...our vet has been a witness with forensic evidence of pellets and buckshot , x-rays etc. several times ...the judge ALWAYS throws it out. I have never even heard of a fine , though I would imagine that does occur, but the potential of a fine is apparently no deterrent to those who would like to prove they are bad ass by shooting (an easy target) like a hawk, eagle, owl, vulture,osprey...or recently herons~! 
Yes, I have guns, and I have no problem with legal hunting, but to shoot one of these birds HAS NO POINT that I can see.

I read some statistic that said something like 2000 birds a week get killed by these farms, and the farms don't really make that much power....I was glad the eagle's death brought some needed attention to these stupid wind mill things....unfortunately they will never spend the money to put this Jeanie back in the bottle and take them down.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm not a fan of wind farms but more birds are killed runnin' into sky scrapers and cars.


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

As with ANY subject on this site , there is always someone who wants to argue their point of view (name calling included)....I personally don't have a dog in the hunt as skyscrapers and cars can't be controlled, and the VAST majority of injured raptors we get in are from car collisions....but here is an article that begs to differ with the theory that wind farms are OK....

http://suite101.com/article/wind-turbines-and-bird-fatalities-a152620


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

MetalPrepper said:


> I read some statistic that said something like 2000 birds a week get killed by these farms, and the farms don't really make that much power....I was glad the eagle's death brought some needed attention to these stupid wind mill things....unfortunately they will never spend the money to put this Jeanie back in the bottle and take them down.


The report I saw said much of the same, from flocks for geese, (gross) ducks and many more.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I understand some bird deaths occur due to wind turbines. However, in comparison to other ways the birds can have an accidental death, I am sure wind turbines are pretty darn low on the list.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

vract:

Maybe we should just build a huge dome over the wind-farms to protect the birds from un-timely death, while we are at it, maybe build huge domes over our city-centers where massive towers reach for the stars just to protect the birds.

Ok ... joking aside.

Animals die.

Some times other animals kill them for fun, sometimes for food and sometimes to protect their young or themselves. Sometimes the animals commit suicide by running or flying across the road in front of a moving vehicle, or a train, or a boat or a ....

Spending massive amounts of money to protect the animals will do nothing for them, beyond letting them die another way - it is the nature of nature. Everything and everyone will die. I don't mean that we should find more ways to kill animals, but, charging someone for the death of a hawk or eagle or a deer or any other kind of animal when it is *clearly not their fault* is completely insane.

:rantoff:


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## MountainKing (Jul 26, 2012)

Bird deaths are a definite bummer. But what are the statistics for wildlife killed by oil spills, coal mine tailings runoff, nuclear contamination, etc..? And how many species are being decimated by global warming from the burning of fossil fuels? Maybe we have to choose the lesser of the evils...

MK


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

LincTex said:


> That officer needs to be fired for lack of intelligence. Should have never even made it to court!!


linc... I agree some people shouldn't breed. look what happens they have idiots that become LEO's


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

MountainKing said:


> Bird deaths are a definite bummer. But what are the statistics for wildlife killed by oil spills, coal mine tailings runoff, nuclear contamination, etc..? And how many species are being decimated by global warming from the burning of fossil fuels? Maybe we have to choose the lesser of the evils...
> 
> MK


But "who" gets to say it is the lesser of the evils?


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

My point was not to argue about the merits or lack of same of wind power...but to point out the total ACTUAL lack of response from the feds (in a case where they SHOULD be reactive)....AKA known as "Government NOT doing what you THINK it should do"......


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

> And how many species are being decimated by global warming from the burning of fossil fuels?


You can not convince me that there is any global warming. It seems more like a trend than a man made occurrence.

http://therandomrambler.com/is-it-global-warming-or-a-natural-trend/


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## MountainKing (Jul 26, 2012)

*Andi said:


> But "who" gets to say it is the lesser of the evils?


I think the birds should have a vote at the table.



cnsper said:


> You can not convince me that there is any global warming.


Then I won't try.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Global warming (now climate change) or man made global warming (or climate change)?


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

When a baby eagle falls out of a nest, how should the government respond?

1. Fine the parents because they did not put a wing rail around the nest to keep their children from falling out. Also charge the parents with chick negligence.

2. Charge the tree with chick endangerment and fine it for moving in the wind.

3. Charge his/her sibling with attempted murder for pushing his sibling out of the nest.

4. Charge the land owner for not cutting down the tree, thus allowing the eagle to build a nest without rails in it and allowing the tree to sway in the wind and if the nest was not there the sibling could not have pushed them out.

I think that the government would do all of them but they will start with #4.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> The hawk quickly took flight upon seeing the dog running towards him but I have to wonder; what would be the consequences if she would have caught the hawk?


I believe that protecting of livestock and or property would have provided you an exemption. But do not rely on my memory for legal advise. I'm just some but on the internet. Your best bet is to check with BLM or Dept of Wildlife, before it happens again. That way you will know if you need to bury that hawk or turn it in.

Regarding the OP another example of asinine government intervention. Indiscriminate slaughtering of Birds of Prey or most ant wild life for that matter is absolutely repugnant to me. I am also a huge advocate of corporate as well as individual accountability but this was a freaking unintentional and apparently unavoidable accident. One more example of our government being stuck on stupid.

An aside does anyone else take issue with a private corporation making a profit off of public resources on public land? It is a pet peeve of mine growing up in Washington I have seen our public forests devastated by the timber industry getting rich by wiping out our forests that they replace with their freaking genetically altered scrawny anorexic tree farms. I have fifty pages of rant about those I will spare you. Depriving us and all future generations of some of the most magnificent wilderness areas to have ever existed on the planet. If not for the irresponsible conduct of the timber industry, Washington could still be the worlds number one producer of top grade old growth timber and thousands of loggers and timber workers would still have jobs for generations to come. I no more approve of corporate welfare than I do of private welfare.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

LongRider said:


> I have seen our public forests devastated by the timber industry getting rich by wiping out our forests that they replace with their freaking genetically altered scrawny anorexic tree farms.


No fooling. I saw it in the Flathead Valley and also see it in East Texas. The trees that are harvested later are grown so fast they are just about like balsa wood. Pure crap. Most become pulp.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

MountainKing said:


> Bird deaths are a definite bummer. But what are the statistics for wildlife killed by oil spills, coal mine tailings runoff, nuclear contamination, etc..? And how many species are being decimated by global warming from the burning of fossil fuels? Maybe we have to choose the lesser of the evils...
> 
> MK


Global warming is a complete and total fraud. They use lies and half-truths to panic people into making drastic changes in the way they life and work. It's all part of the UN's Agenda 21 plans to reduce the earth's population by 90%. Once in awhile some truth comes out:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...ientists-puzzled/story-e6frg6z6-1226609140980

Twenty-year hiatus in rising temperatures has climate scientists puzzled

DEBATE about the reality of a two-decade pause in global warming and what it means has made its way from the sceptical fringe to the mainstream.

In a lengthy article this week, The Economist magazine said if climate scientists were credit-rating agencies, then climate sensitivity - the way climate reacts to changes in carbon-dioxide levels - would be on negative watch but not yet downgraded.

Another paper published by leading climate scientist James Hansen, the head of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, says the lower than expected temperature rise between 2000 and the present could be explained by increased emissions from burning coal.

For Hansen the pause is a fact, but it's good news that probably won't last.

International Panel on Climate Change chairman Rajendra Pachauri recently told The Weekend Australian the hiatus would have to last 30 to 40 years "at least" to break the long-term warming trend.

But the fact that global surface temperatures have not followed the expected global warming pattern is now widely accepted.

Research by Ed Hawkins of University of Reading shows surface temperatures since 2005 are already at the low end of the range projections derived from 20 climate models and if they remain flat, they will fall outside the models' range within a few years.

"The global temperature standstill shows that climate models are diverging from observations," says David Whitehouse of the Global Warming Policy Foundation.

"If we have not passed it already, we are on the threshold of global observations becoming incompatible with the consensus theory of climate change," he says.

Whitehouse argues that whatever has happened to make temperatures remain constant requires an explanation because the pause in temperature rise has occurred despite a sharp increase in global carbon emissions.

The Economist says the world has added roughly 100 billion tonnes of carbon to the atmosphere between 2000 and 2010, about one-quarter of all the carbon dioxide put there by humans since 1750. This mismatch between rising greenhouse gas emissions and not-rising temperatures is among the biggest puzzles in climate science just now, The Economist article says.

"But it does not mean global warming is a delusion."

The fact is temperatures between 2000 and 2010 are still almost 1C above their level in the first decade of the 20th century.

"The mismatch might mean that for some unexplained reason there has been a temporary lag between more carbon dioxide and higher temperatures in 2000-2010.

"Or it might mean that the 1990s, when temperatures were rising fast, was the anomalous period."

The magazine explores a range of possible explanations including higher emissions of sulphur dioxide, the little understood impact of clouds and the circulation of heat into the deep ocean.

But it also points to an increasing body of research that suggests it may be that climate is responding to higher concentrations of atmospheric carbon dioxide in ways that had not been properly understood before.

"This possibility, if true, could have profound significance both for climate science and for environmental and social policy," the article says.

There are now a number of studies that predict future temperature rises as a result of man-made carbon dioxide emissions at well below the IPCC best estimate of about 3C over the century.

The upcoming IPCC report is expected to lift the maximum possible temperature increase to 6C.

The Research Council of Norway says in a non-peer-reviewed paper that the best estimate concludes there is a 90 per cent probability that doubling CO2 emissions will increase temperatures by only 1.2C to 2.9C, the most likely figure being 1.9C.

Another study based on the way the climate behaved about 20,000 years ago has given a best guess of 2.3C.

Other forecasts, accepted for publication, have reanalysed work cited by the IPCC but taken account of more recent temperature data and given a figure of between 1C and 3C.

The Economist says understanding which estimate is true is vital to getting the best response.

"If as conventional wisdom has it, global temperatures could rise by 3C or more in response to a doubling of emissions, then the correct response would be the one to which most of the world pays lip service; rein in the warming and the greenhouse gases causing it," the article says.

"If, however, temperatures are likely to rise by only 2 degrees Celsius in response to a doubling of carbon emissions (and if the likelihood of a 6 degrees Celsius is trivial) the calculation might change," it says.

"Perhaps the world should seek to adjust to (rather than stop) the greenhouse-gas splurge.

"There is no point buying earthquake insurance if you don't live in an earthquake zone."

According to The Economist, "given the hiatus in warming and all the new evidence, a small reduction in estimates of climate sensitivity would seem to be justified." On face value, Hansen agrees the slowdown in global temperature rises can be seen as "good news".

But he is not ready to recalculate the Faustian bargain that weighs the future cost to humanity of continued carbon dioxide emissions.

Hansen argues that the impact of human carbon dioxide emissions has been masked by the sharp increase in coal use, primarily in China and India.

Increased particulate and nitrogen pollution has worked in the opposite direction of rising carbon dioxide levels in the atmosphere.

Another paper published in Geophysical Research Letters on research from the University of Colorado Boulder found small volcanoes, not more coal power stations in China, were responsible for the slowdown in global warming.

But this did not mean that climate change was not a problem.

"Emissions from volcanic gases go up and down, helping to cool or heat the planet, while greenhouse gases from human activity just continue to go up," author Ryan Neely says.

Hansen's bottom line is that increased short-term masking of greenhouse gas warming by fossil fuel particulate and nitrogen pollution represents a "doubling down" of the Faustian bargain, an increase in the stakes.

"The more we allow the Faustian debt to build, the more unmanageable the eventual consequences will be," he says.


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## MountainKing (Jul 26, 2012)

That's a lot of typing. When I idle my car in the garage for 10 minutes I've changed the atmosphere within (making it essentially unlivable). Stands to reason I suppose.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

We're drifting away from the topic folks. We're talking about the eagle's here. If you want to discuss climate change, please start your own thread on it.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

LincTex said:


> No fooling. I saw it in the Flathead Valley and also see it in East Texas. The trees that are harvested later are grown so fast they are just about like balsa wood. Pure crap. Most become pulp.


y brother remodeled a 50 era house that had used old growth Douglas Fir framing. The wood was so hard he had to pre drill it to drive a nail or it would bend. As part of the remodel he left some exposed post and beam wanting to add a breakfast nook counter he wanted to use Douglas Fir to match the exposed post it would be connected to. He could leave a thumbprint in between the grain it was so wide and soft. It did not look like the same wood at all. He ended up using granite which came out nice looking.

I have never seen an eagle nest in any of the farmed tree no matter how tall or otherwise ideally positioned. Suppose Eagles know a fake tree when they see it and are not willing trust their family's life on new growth Douglas Fir


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Per a report I received today over a thousand eagles (bald and golden plus not counting the hawks)... have been killed via wind farms... 

Folks are starting to take notice. (and it is not pretty ) 

Wonder where this will go...


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

cnsper said:


> When a baby eagle falls out of a nest, how should the government respond?
> 
> 1. Fine the parents because they did not put a wing rail around the nest to keep their children from falling out. Also charge the parents with chick negligence.
> 
> ...


What if the government required lapels in very large type to be installed on each blade warning the Eagles of danger?

Of course waring would be in written in English because they are American Eagles... but then there could be undocumented foreign Eagles...:nuts:


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Looks like we have one rule for the common folks and a different rule for others...

If I were to kill a raptor, I could/would go to jail but if a wind mill farm kills one, oh well.

Some how that don't sound fair to me ... but that is just me ...


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

If I read the article correctly some low level functionary was filling his rice bowl by harassing another business with one of a myriad of regulations. The wind farm didn't have some obscure permit to kill birds. Wind farms kill birds, you want wind farms then birds die it is that easy. The question is why do we waste our money hiring people to issue and monitor permits for something that we know is going to happen. This is a question of overregulation.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Caribou said:


> Wind farms kill birds, you want wind farms then birds die - - it is that easy.


Overly-tree-hugging environmentalists will cry foul either way. 
Green energy or bird populations, take your pick?!!?!

They they settle on euthanasiation and mandatory "population decreases" instead


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## MetalPrepper (Nov 25, 2012)

Yeah.....too many freeking eagles and hawks out there anyway....spend our tax dollars to pretend we are making "green" energy...and kille em all!!!!!


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

The Bald Eagle has been the national emblem of the United States since 1782 and a spiritual symbol for native people for far longer than that... I saw my first eagle just 5 years ago. (Whoa!!!... what a sight!!!)

One would think that the national emblem of the United States ... could be seen in most any state, but not true. They are just now making a come back to our area. While some have seen them as a bird with bad moral Character (Benjamin Franklin) I watch them in wonder and awe.

I just hope the wind farms today will not be the next DDT for the eagles. 

But that is just me ...


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