# living with zero power in the city...



## exiledsaint

I own my own home in Raleigh,NC and i recently pulled the plug on BIG power and refused to pay a bill just to get the power turned off..cuz we all know u cant just say..turn off my power. it isnt allowed.

So _ all happy living "walden" style in my home, nice fires in the late evenings. Living the simple life right here in town...until I got home from work and my home had been UBER locked on me...seems the city came by and put a lock on the door since I had no power, I couldnt be living there, right? dumba**es...so anyway, I go and pay the stupid fine...yes fine. 150 for living in a domicile without power. so I pay the damn fine, they take off the lock and the power is turned back on by law.

So I fought back and simply pulled the fuses and cut all my power off and threw the main breaker to make sure no power whatsoever was coming in the house. 2 weeks goes by and I come again...to an UBERlock on my door.

BIG sticker put on my door says home condemned. call this number....

so I call the number and fight with the city AGAIN over whehter I am doing illegal improvements to my home and have the power off to my home...

I told the guy the truth, I dont use the power at all...literally none at all and while I will be forcerd to pay some stupid fees for having power delvered to my home..I wont use it and I am getting a lawyer because this is harassment and I have every right to live without electricity if I want to....

SOOOOOOOOOOOO I got an attorney and he sent to me to another guy who sent to another guy and I finally had to give up, and went back to the first guy and said " Look, I m sick of stupid laws the tell me I cant live in my home with no electricity, when poor people all over the city areforced to do it all the time..but when I WANT to do it...I cant get any peace.
I dont have any idea whatr the hell to do. and if you say..turn the power on..I'll smack you...lol.

right now I am forced to have the power on. I had to have the city inspector come and inspect the house since they didnt beleive I wasnt doing any improvements. The frickn idiot just looked everything over and asked me why I didnt have the sh*t turned on. "I dont like electricity" I said. Idiot just givers me a look and says "sorry about that, fred flintstone" and puts a city lock on the power box and leaves.

Im so mad it isnt funny. my house is for sale...Im gonna find someplace in the sticks....anyone got any ideas? I love my house, like the neghborhood Im in..._


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## MrSfstk8d

Wow, sounds like the City of Raleigh are really being d*cks about this. Sorry to hear that. We had a pretty rough time financially this last summer and spent over a month without power. Not exactly the end of the world, but doable, even with kids who still wanted gameboy, etc. We never got an eviction notice or anything though. Let me guess, your power utility is a quasi-governmental body, right? Hate to say it, but it may be time to pack up and move, as you've said you listed already. As much as you love the house, if they're going to make it unlivable, that's that. On the flip side of the coin, you could get ACLU to take on the case, make it a big Federal stink, f*ck up the city's money taking them to court, etc. But then, I'm kind of a d*ck like that myself, lol. It's funny that something that wasn't even available to most households until early/mid last century is now a pre-requisite to be suitable for habitation. That's how money talks, I guess.


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## azurevirus

I know a guy down the next street who is a boozer..he cant pay his electric bill because he lost his job and electric co turned it off when he couldnt pay..he jury rigged something up so that he has electric..but he doesnt turn it on to after 5..hes got through the winter so far without being caught..hes got the windows so you couldnt tell if he has a light on ..I dont know how he hasnt gotten caught..surely the electric company knows about this or maybe they dont...maybe they are ignorant of it all or just dont care ..or are waiting for him to rack up a couple thousand in services and then drop the hammer...this burg I live in allows burning wood for heat and I could take you down streets the chickens have taken over in spots..but if I raised chickens and burned wood ..I bet I would hear about it


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## SaskDame

When we left the city we were busy getting city notices about the saw horses supporting the current project out in the back yard. We had lived there for over a decade and done endless DIY renovations. The yard generally had some project or other on the go. Then a few houses sold to people who wanted to "improve" the neighborhood and they started complaining about everyones "DIY" projects. The city started writing up people for unsightly, or fire regulation violations.

We sold the place and moved to the farm. So far the only thing we are not allowed to do is have multiple residences on a property with the same land description or electric grid hook up. We could likely live in a tent beside a pond otherwise, that is excepting for our artic winters.


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## goshengirl

Holy cow, that stinks big time. (yeah, I know, mild words for what you've gone through - sorry.) I would be burning mad, too.

But I had another thought - maybe the good Lord is kicking your tookus because he knows you need to be somewhere else in the near future... kwim?


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## Frugal_Farmers

Land of the free and home of the brave?


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## nj_m715

Tell them you converted to being Amish. They will have a hard time fighting a religious case. At least point out that the Amish are "allowed" to not have power. Weren't people allowed to not have power 100 yrs ago. What changed? I'd be looking to get back my money. If there is a requirement to have power see if you can meet the requirements by using an inverter on your truck. Vehicles have different rules. I need permits and inspections by a dozen different agencies to put solar on my house, but nothing is required to add it to a camper, trailer, truck etc.


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## backlash

Turn off just the main breaker inside your house.
Do nothing on the outside they can check on.
If you mess with the city power box then they assume you have disconnected power so you can do some remodeling and they want their permit fee.
It's all about money to them.
If they again lock you out then you can talk to a lawyer.
You will still have power you just won't be using any. 
What can they possibly do about that?


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## PamsPride

Run for political office and get the rules changed!
That thought did cross my mind after the run in with my local township worker this morning. I would be his boss then!  But then I would have to deal with other unhappy people that the worker ticked off! LOL! So that idea was nixed! 

My best advise would be to move somewhere that does not have all of those crazy rules and regulations. 

Is there electric competition in your area? Can you switch back and forth so many times that eventually they forget which company you should be with and will not notice if you just shut off? (I am not even sure if that would work...the thought just crossed my mind.)


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## CulexPipiens

If it's allowed, buy a solar panel and put it on your roof and grid tie it into your house. Since you're not using any power, all it produces should feed back into the grid and IF your area has net metering, then they'll have to pay you for the power. Anyone complains and you simply tell them you're generating more than your using. It would be true. 

Make enough off one panel and add another one. Over time you could probably get them to buy an entire array for you!


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## NaeKid

Here in Calgary we have a guy named Tony who works for one of the local TV-stations and he "un-covers" crap that the city or businesses or ________ try to cover up when big business tries to screw the locals. We also have another guy that works for one of the local newspapers that does the same thing.

I did a quick peak through the Raleigh newspaper and didn't see something similar, but, I might not know how to find the right reporter that does it locally for you.

RAISE A BIG STINK through the local newspaper and you will probably find that there are others who are also trying to de-grid themselves - work together to reverse the charges (fines) and get yourselves an appology from the city!


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## Woody

Sorry to hear. You must have Duke Power in town. I have Wake Electric and it costs about $12.00 a month just to have power to the house, even if I do not use it. It does not seem right that they have to FORCE you to use electric if you choose not to. I would think you comply with the law by having power AVAILABLE to use.

Perhaps tell them you are going to work overseas for an extended period and want the power turned off. If someone comes by to see you tell them you are back in the country for a few days and saw no reason to have it turned on. Might not work as you are already pegged as a problem. But it really is none of their business whether you are here or there or what you are doing. At least not to me.


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## jungatheart

Frugal_Farmers said:


> Land of the free and home of the brave?


Amen brother, amen.


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## BadgeBunny

While it may not be what anyone wants to hear bucking the system hardly ever works out well for the buckee ... There are, usually, several good ways to work within the system to accomplish what you want. Seems like the solar panels may be the best way for you to go if you are wanting to stay put.

There is a guy here in town who has had no electricity for several years now. He uses wood to heat his house and cook with and sleeps outside on a covered patio when the heat gets too out of hand in the summers.

I wish you all the luck in the world as, should we wind up staying in the city, we would also like to be off the grid. It probably would not be possible for us to completely disconnect, but it would be nice to be able to use alternative sources if we find them viable.

A big part of our problem is there are times in the winter when it is really, really bad (-31 degrees F) and times in the summer when it is really, really bad (105+ degree F). Nothing like living where extremes are normal .... :surrender:


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## sailaway

Let me put my city commissioner hat on for this response.:scratch:scratch Citys have services that are offered collectively to the group with in the boundries of the city. You are expected to use them, keeps costs down for all and insures security to the group. This includes the quality of life basics, water, sewer, gas, electric. The city governmet has a code enforcemet division that is expected to enforce these requirement codes. These people are only enforcing the laws that the commissioners have passed as a blanket to ensure a quality of life to all. The judicial arm enforces these codes.

I rented my house out to a family who evetually quit paying the gas bill because he lost his job. They didn't need it because it was summer, so they had left it off. They also quit paying the rent. An eviction would have taken months, but when the judge heard there was gas available, but not turned on the house was condemmed. The law worked in my favor this time.

If you don't want to participate in the collective groups basics, you should relocate to an area where you aren't part of the group. This is what I am looking for in a BOL., distance from the group. Look for an area to build in that has no zoning or permit requirements, then you can do what you want, the way you see fit without having to conform to the collective group.


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## nj_m715

That's all good, but the Amish are allowed to not have power or gas. Why is ok to force me to have it? I am allowed to through hike the AT without power or gas and I can live a clean healthy life on the trail. Why can't I do the same in my own home or on my own land? 
I think that's the point. If my kid goes to school and looks like he lives in a pid pen I'd expect someone to check up on it, but when everyone is clean and healthy big brother has no right to bug me about anything.


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## BadgeBunny

nj_m715 said:


> That's all good, but the Amish are allowed to not have power or gas. Why is ok to force me to have it? I am allowed to through hike the AT without power or gas and I can live a clean healthy life on the trail. Why can't I do the same in my own home or on my own land?
> I think that's the point. If my kid goes to school and looks like he lives in a pid pen I'd expect someone to check up on it, but when everyone is clean and healthy big brother has no right to bug me about anything.


This is true but the Amish tend to live together in communities. And while I agree with all you guys wanting to reduce your dependence on city utilities I can also see the cities' side too.

Unfortunately, society as a whole has to take into account the "lowest common denominator" ... for every person here who could and would live off the grid healthy and happy there are a dozen idiots out there who would let trash pile up, burn anything and everything to stay warm and not take care of anything. THOSE are the folks you should be mad at ... not the cities trying to control that kind of nonsense.

It has been my experience you can accomplish a lot more by at least the appearance of propriety ... by that I mean not make enemies of people who are just doing their 8 to 5 jobs. There is always more than one way to skin a cat ... If you can accomplish some of what you want isn't that better than making a target of yourself and not being able to accomplish any of what you want?

For example, chickens are not allowed in city limits where I live except under very strict guidelines, many of which preclude everybody in my neighborhood from being able to own chickens legally. However, there are several people who have chickens in their backyards. The code compliance officer is a regular visitor to our little addition. No one has ever been cited. Why? Because everyone who has chickens is facetious about cleanliness and doesn't try to run an entire chicken farm from their backyards. In fact, I am pretty sure that the lady on the block just over from me gives the mailman eggs regularly.

It may not always be that way ... but I am willing to bet you a dollar nothing will change UNLESS we get a neighbor who doesn't take care of things or lets their chickens roam or somebody gets a rooster ... I guess everyone will just have to butcher then but I hope not. I would rather the idiots who take advantage or are lazy and don't take care just choose to live somewhere else far, far from me and my neighbors.


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## backlash

So the city can force you to pay for something you don't need or want just to keep the cost down for everyone else?
Sounds like Obamacare.


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## SaskDame

Population density has a good deal to do with how many freedoms of choice people can reasonably have. When I lived in the city, noise bylaws were kept and now on the farm it matters less. There continues to be a community consensus (do not know if there is a by-law or not) that spray planes not start spraying at sun up (about 3:30 am around here in June). Point being that the population is small enough that social rather than legal controls are effective. 

There is also an issue of sanitation. At some level of people/animal density there is a sanitation problem. Long term sustainability generally requires that the land base used to maintain animals be enough to make the place food self-sufficient for the animals as well.


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## nj_m715

BadgeBunny said:


> there are a dozen idiots out there who would let trash pile up, burn anything and everything to stay warm and not take care of anything. THOSE are the folks you should be mad at ... not the cities trying to control that kind of nonsense.


Let the city use the codes or laws and enforce them as they apply to individuals, not as a blanket to cover everyone. If one man lets dog crap pile all over the yard the city should look into that man, not take away every man's dog.

If their issue is health and welfare, then check on the condition of the man and leave him the hell alone if he's ok.


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## IrritatedWithUS

Have you called the news? The media will have a sh*tstorm over this. At least over here on the west coast they would. It would be on every local news station. We're kind of hippies over here. After the news there would be a mass protest, I'm sure. 

So call the news, ask to talk to a reporter. They usually have the journalists emails on their website.


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## BadgeBunny

nj_m715 said:


> Let the city use the codes or laws and enforce them as they apply to individuals, not as a blanket to cover everyone. If one man lets dog crap pile all over the yard the city should look into that man, not take away every man's dog.
> 
> If their issue is health and welfare, then check on the condition of the man and leave him the hell alone if he's ok.


Like I said, I agree totally with you guys but it's a hard row to hoe if you make enemies of the code enforcement fellas. Never said it was right.


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## slick

Yeah thats why I am moving as well, not that I dont want electricity but I want a well and a pig/propane for my back up generator system and I am in a small rual town which might as well be a big city because of the rules so instead of fighting I will move two miles in any direction and then the rules change LoL, good luck.. Cya Slick


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## tsrwivey

exiledsaint said:


> So I fought back and simply pulled the fuses and cut all my power off and threw the main breaker to make sure no power whatsoever was coming in the house. 2 weeks goes by and I come again...to an UBERlock on my door.
> 
> BIG sticker put on my door says home condemned. call this number....QUOTE]
> 
> OMG You have got to be kidding!!! They locked you out of your OWN HOME!!!:club: I shutter to think what it would take to get my redreck hubby out of jail if they did that to us. :ignore:I would get out of there ASAP.


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## Nadja

You could tell them that your going "green" to help reduce the countries dependancy on oil. Then, you could maybe write a letter to the dept of energy and tell them that by trying to help the country out by not using their fossil fuel's, you get penalized for it. I am sure that would make the news.


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## Jimmy24

That's why I moved away from larger city life 20 yrs ago. 

Big cities rational is non-existent. No logical or intelligent thoughts go into any big city ordnances, none. Plus the "I don't give a ____" additude by city workers makes big city living a non-starter for me.

Having worked for a electric utilitiy for nearly 30 yrs, I can tell you that there are lots of folks out there living the good life off-grid. 

I say sell and find you a place in a small rural communitiy to live in and you'll find life to be much easier. 

Just saying...

Jimmy


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## PamsPride

Any updates here??


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## BillS

I don't understand the big desire to live with the power actually turned off. It's not hard to simulate. You don't use running water and you don't use anything with electricity. You use camp stoves to cook food, candles for light, and kerosene heaters to heat your home. You can also turn off the water to your toilets to get an idea of how much water you use every day just for that.


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## kejmack

nj_m715 said:


> Tell them you converted to being Amish. They will have a hard time fighting a religious case.


You are not going to be able to claim a religious exemption unless you are part of a church. Also, Amish communities are in rural areas for a reason.


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## pelenaka

I can relate as both the power company & gas company have come out & replaced our meters because we don't use the norm in electric & natural gas.

We pay more in taxes, tariffs, line charges than in electric each month.
As much as I want to call & have the gas turned off doing so will violate my mortgage agreement. 


The home across the street is in foreclosure, due to divorce/drugs. Yesterday I noticed the contractor who comes out to check on the property. He was taking a cell phone pic of the electric meter to prove that no one was squatting there at least with power. 
It wouldn't surprise me if banks/mortgage companies have access to the power companies records or the very least are notified. 

So like you I bemoan the fact that we only really use less than $13 in power but pay over $30 in assorted fees & taxes. 

~~ pelenaka ~~


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## gypsysue

I'm appalled that it would be required to have electricity, and I'm appalled at the people who just throw up their hands like sheeple and just say "oh well, that's the city for you". Hmph. I'd fight the thing even to the point of being arrested (and on TV) if I had to. First I'd chain myself to the meter! Mwahahaha!

I don't buy into any "collective" thing requiring everyone to have it to have the same quality of life. If that was so, you wouldn't have poor neighborhoods and rich neighborhoods. That's like saying everyone HAS to have a car because everyone has a car, right? So next what...it's illegal to ride your bicycle to the grocery store because all your neighbors drive there???

If the man, his house, and his property were clean and not a blight or problem to his neighbors, then he should be within his rights not to use a publice service/utility. 

I suppose it should be required we all have satelite TV, too? Cell phones? Oh sure, and INTERNET! Yeah, force everyone to have internet--no, not just internet, everyone should have wireless DSL!

I hope exiltedsaint won his case. I see it's been a while since he posted on this thread.


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## exiledsaint

Wow....Alot of replies. Much Thanks for the encouragement.
I actually took the fight to court. After much ado about jack sh*t, I lost and it was all about semantics.
As many of you pointed out, failure to pay said bill will result in loss of power...I pointed out said outcome to the court. Judge pointed out that people pay fees to get the power turned back on as punishment.
I pointed out that I simply turned mine off because I had use for Electric. 
Judge pointed out that City and State laws require that within zoned areas and so on and so forth blah blah blah....You have to have electricity.
I paid the doggone fines and moved to the country side out if city limits and in an unzoned county.


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## BillS

You could be targeted by social services if you have children and you insist on living without electricity. That just sounds unhealthy to the average person. I'm a prepper. The last thing I want to do is call attention to myself because of my lifestyle. Besides, as long as you have power at your address there aren't any minimum usage requirements that I know of.


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## exiledsaint

No kids just me. I was still paying almost $25 for zero use.
Now Im in an older trailer on 2 acres for now.
Looking for a few acres to exist on Walden style.


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## NaeKid

exiledsaint said:


> Wow....Alot of replies. Much Thanks for the encouragement.
> I actually took the fight to court. After much ado about jack sh*t, I lost and it was all about semantics.
> As many of you pointed out, failure to pay said bill will result in loss of power...I pointed out said outcome to the court. Judge pointed out that people pay fees to get the power turned back on as punishment.
> I pointed out that I simply turned mine off because I had use for Electric.
> Judge pointed out that City and State laws require that within zoned areas and so on and so forth blah blah blah....You have to have electricity.
> I paid the doggone fines and moved to the country side out if city limits and in an unzoned county.


Welcome back, eh ... its been a long time.

Good to hear that you got things in order again and that you are in a place where you can choose your way of life ...

:beercheer:


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## partdeux

you will comply


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## exiledsaint

If I was still there, Id have to. But being a bit in the country now...I make do with no power and no one says jack about it.


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## goshengirl

Glad to see you back, Exiled. Thought about you and this thread a little while ago - someone brought up the idea that if you don't want power, no one makes you hook it up - and I thought about this thread, and how that isn't always true.

Glad you're in the country now. We moved two years ago, and while we're not super far out, it's definitely MUCH better than it was before. We don't always realize how much control the cities/towns exercise over us until we leave those places and the controls are gone.

Sorry you had to go through the $ to fight what you shouldn't have to fight, but at least it's behind you. Hope you find your Walden soon.


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## UncleJoe

partdeux said:


> you will comply


Resistance is futile.


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## goatlady

Purchasing property within a city limits implys consent to abide by said city rules and regulation. Don't want to do that, don't live within the city limits. As you found out to your cost of time and $$. Exactly the same situation as purchasing a home in a subdivision that has covenents and restrictions - don't want to abide by them, then don't purchase there. Unrealistic to expect a city or subdivision to changes the rules cause you change your mind about following them. NOT saying it right, just stating the realities that need to be acknowledged.


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## exiledsaint

Well....I shoulda sold 10 years ago when the city limit was widened. But I didnt. My mistake. When I bought in 99 that house was off the beaten track. Thats ok. Its a giod house in a quiet neighborhood with no crime.
...and hopefully I will find my Walden soon. Looking to get back growing my own food and some small livestock.


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## exiledsaint

Woke up to a cop this morning. someone reported a squatter at an abandoned home.
spent an hour explaining to first one then another officer why I sleep in my yard and not my home.
Albeit, Im in a tent. But I changed my ID to this residence. I admit I was rather irate with them. At least I had changed my ID....I think that made them "happy"


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## BillS

You shouldn't be irate to the police. They have a difficult enough job as it is. They have to investigate complaints. And frankly what you're doing just seems weird. You live in a home with no electricity and then you sleep in a tent in your yard. If the police find out you have guns you could find yourself being considered a danger to the community. If they had a mental health hearing I can only imagine how hard it would be for you to convince people that you're rational, sane, and not a danger to the community.

If it was me I'd get electricity. I'd have inside and outside electric lights on at night because that's what everybody else does. I'd plug in my refrigerator and put food in it. I'd put my TV where it can be seen from outside. I'd run the TV at night even if I had the sound down. I'd stop sleeping in my yard. And if the police ever asked me about my past I'd tell them that I was off my meds for awhile but I'm OK now. I don't say that to be insulting. I'm literally trying to be helpful here. The last thing a prepper needs is attention from law enforcement. They might end up searching your home for guns or some other reason and find out you have a lot of stored food. They might remember that after the SHTF and you could find yourself being a target. An important thing to do if you're a prepper is to blend in and not cause yourself to be noticed because of your lifestyle.


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## pixieduster

BillS. You got it. Stop drawing attention to yourself. You are making yourself seem crazy and not a man before your time. Don't give up your power to make decisions for yourself. Yes its a game. Learn to play it well and you win.


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## JayJay

Hey, exiledsaint..I don't know you; you don't want electricity, that's your business and it's your right to keep it that way--last I checked, this is still America.
We'll all be there with ya soon.:ignore:
'Keep on keeping on' :flower:as we said in the 60's.
Peace...jayjay


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## exiledsaint

First, Thanks for the comments. All of them, seriously.
If I could do it, I would...Id go back to electricity...but I just cant do it.
I did however move my "camp" inside just to as BillS says Blend in...
and btw Bill....aint no one here got outside lights, were all to poor in this part of the county.
I did however replace my goat with a push power lawn mower....and just shi*s and giggles, BillS....I dont own not one gun. not one weapon but my pocket knife.
Part of my issues is that I dont own a car....or a license.
I either walk or ride my bike.


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## exiledsaint

I try to have a very small carbin foot print.


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## weedygarden

*fly under the radar*

I am not trying to offend you, but I might. I want to make you aware of what you might not have thought about. We do not know what is coming in the future.

We are losing more and more rights in America everyday.

Imagine a scenario similar to Nazi Germany. During that time, groups of people were focused on and systematically eliminated: Jews, gays, gypsy's, etc. Imagine if there is a plan to reduce population by 90%. I have heard there is. Who knows the ultimate strategy for this to happen? I don't. They could start rounding up Americans some day. It could be any of us.

Possible scenario: Maybe all power is damaged or most of it is down, by a staged attack, like 9-11. After a matter of hours, people begin to act irrationally. As time continues, in a day or two, more and more people become hysterical, beginning to gather at grocery stores to loot and remove food that cannot be sold due to no power. As time goes on, these people are rounded up and arrested. Soon the jails and holding tanks are full. Vacant big box stores are used as holding tanks. Maybe these rounded up folks are going to be systematically eliminated, as in Nazi Germany.

As time goes on, more and more people are rounded up: people who have a history of being difficult, people who have a history of being visited by law enforcement and are now viewed as non-compliant types, people who have a history of using the system, people who have a history of chronic illness or mental illness, people who have a history of being petty criminals, and on and on. You get the idea. People who are quiet, stay quiet, take care of business and don't cause trouble are left mostly alone.

If you are a prepper who has a store of food, supplies, and especially some fire arms, you really need to get your stuff together and get your emotions under control. You can best prepare yourself for that by being rehearsed, as in a fire drill. Talking through the possibilities of what could happen and how to react when it does will help. Know that crazy making stuff is going to happen and we have to learn to lay low, and to wait for stuff to play out as opposed to reacting and being beligerant and drawing attention to ourselves.
Blending in as best a prepper can is the way to go. Running off at the mouth and being demanding and abnormal will not help anyone.:sssh:

There are people who can have 10 years of supplies, have no debts, live in a rural area, are self sufficient. But if they do not have their mental, social and emotional act together, it won't matter. We have to know what our weakest link is and to work on it.


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## exiledsaint

Weedygarden.....
I AGREE!!! but I survive on my own.
Im not depending on food cache when it all goes south.
I know how to blend in, I know how to change my look in a crowd and get out. What I cant control is nosy people who saw me move in, saw me clean up the property and have junk hauled away.
and concerning the police the other day, I told them the house had been fumigated and I couldnt afford a hotel.


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## exiledsaint

Im not.....craven enough to piss iff the police, but I am not afraid to argue my point.


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## 101airborne

CulexPipiens said:


> If it's allowed, buy a solar panel and put it on your roof and grid tie it into your house. Since you're not using any power, all it produces should feed back into the grid and IF your area has net metering, then they'll have to pay you for the power. Anyone complains and you simply tell them you're generating more than your using. It would be true.
> 
> Make enough off one panel and add another one. Over time you could probably get them to buy an entire array for you!


 Good idea but as you said make sure that it's "allowed" Here vectren energy has the manopoly on power electric and gas. They also got the law written (worded) that they "own" rights to all power sources that includes solar, wind, water power. If you want to go off grid you have to pay them to use THEIR sun, THEIR wind, or THEIR water!


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## Magus

Frugal_Farmers said:


> Land of the free and home of the brave?


Land of disease, home of the slave more like it.


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## machinist

Yeah, Magus is right. Cities aren't fit to live in now, for the reasons in this thread and a lot more. 

I think that when people live too close together, they go nuts. I know farm animals are like that. Overcrowded chickens will attack and often kill each other. Overcrowded pigs will bite each others tails off, so now, piglets in feedlots have their tails removed right after birth. I never wanted to endure such overcrowding, so we never owned a place in a city. People tend to attack each other in cities. If you doubt that, just watch the news!

I'm convinced that moving out is the only good answer.


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## exiledsaint

Ok, so after thinking about the most generous replies from all of you out there, I purchased some solar powered lamps for night time, which serves double purpose...reading with steady light is so much easier.
I did some work to the yard to make it look more lived in, lawn gnomes and such. and get ready to fall down....I got an inside bed. Though it is only a futon cushion in a basic room. I am working on curtains for the "look" someone was talking of. and I have found parking my bike inside is also preferable. 
So much thanks to you all for making me look at this in a different light.


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## BlueShoe

Cities do this through codes to keep property values up....so they can assure themselves higher tax revenue. If more people had no power or water, they'd have lower or stagnant real estate values.



> So the city can force you to pay for something you don't need or want just to keep the cost down for everyone else?
> Sounds like Obamacare.


Don't forget where he got the idea.


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## LincTex

weedygarden said:


> People who are quiet, stay quiet, take care of business and don't cause trouble are left mostly alone.


Oh my, isn't that the truth. 
It is hard to do, sometimes - - I don't want to be a "sheeple", but I have to be very discreet in order to protect my home and family - - and to keep from drawing attention to myself.



exiledsaint said:


> Ok, I purchased some solar powered lamps for night time


EXCELLENT idea - it is pretty cheap and easy to run a few lights with very little solar panel wattage. A microwave oven.... not so much. But lights, YES!


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## ContinualHarvest

Only advice I can give you is go solar. I know it costs a bunch upfront. Go solar and tell the city you use solar energy. Then they will turn off the the power.

Or just say you're Amish and it's against your religious beliefs.


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## weedygarden

*Lessons*

Some people are willing to fight and fight. I am not saying there is anything wrong with that. I am just not a fighter. I just think of ways to get around the situation. If I had to have electricity turned on, I would have it. I would use it very minimally, if I had to, if I didn't want it. But that is not me. I like having a refrigerator, using a washing machine, having lights and other electrical conveniences. But having it one day, and then totally not paying the bill, wanting the service turned off, etc. is not necessarily the way I would go. But, that is not me. If I didn't want it, why not just stop using it, or use it minimally. One thing that is off is that there was a bill for several hundred dollars one month, and then nothing. If I don't want it, I'll pay the bill and stop using it.

I know the day may be coming when we won't have the service of electricity. One thing I heard a while ago was that the government has the right to confiscate any power we might have. If we have solar panels, generators, and other sources of power, they may want to take them some day. I would think this is SHTF.


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## exiledsaint

@ Continualharvest:
Id tell the "Man" Im amish, but Im throat to feet tattoos...kinda hard yo hide....lol. The solar, I bought a small sokar kit for cars and ran it through a convertor to a small battery bank in my living room.
only about 150 at wally world.
@ Weedy:
Im just a rogue. Tell me not to do sonething and I will probably do it.
on the other hand, not having city power sending me a bill is sweet.
I only keep food for the day. I always cook outside even in rain.
I wash my clothes in a tub in the backyard with the rainwater I harvest.
Our constitution says we cannot be forced to live like this. so I dont. 
I dont have a car or a license..or an ID for that matter. If I decide to move to Idaho tommorrow....I can, and packing only takes 10 minutes.
I choose to be free.


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## LincTex

exiledsaint said:


> .
> Albeit, I'm in a tent. But I changed my ID to this residence. I admit I was rather irate with them. At least I had changed my ID....I think that made them "happy"


if no license, then always keep a current ID card.It can mean the difference between taking a ride in the back of a cop car, or NOT taking a ride in the back of a cop car.

Police will haul you in - - JUST to find out who you really are. They did it to Bob Dylan a few months ago when he was in New Jersey standing outside Bruce Springsteen's old house. They brought him back to the same location after verifying who he was, but it still took a few hours from his life he could have been doing something else with.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jersey-homeowner-calls-cops-bob-dylan/story?id=8331830

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/bob_dylan_arrested_for_walking/


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## LincTex

Magus said:


> Land of disease, home of the slave more like it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

*Stop and identify statutes*
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Stop and identify" statutes are laws in the United States that allow police to detain persons and request such persons to identify themselves, and arrest them if they do not.

North Carolina does not have a "Stop and identify statute".


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## exiledsaint

I have one, I just dont carry it.


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