# Bury your guns?



## Jezcruzen

Lots of talk about burying firearms. Its increased since the shooting in Aurora and the re-newed call for more gun regulation.

My question is.... if things are bad enough to cause anyone to bury their firearms, how bad would it have to get to dig them up again and use them?

When the British were marching on Concorde to capture the local magazine, those Minutemen didn't run out back and bury their rifles.:surrender:

Think about it!


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## Padre

I am thinking about burying some old mosins for just in case, but I agree, you want em? Come and get them...


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## mojo4

The only thing I plan on burying is the moron who tries to take my guns. Nope, I bought em legal and I'm keepin them till I don't want them anymore. And that day is probly the day after I die.


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## Marcus

Being from Texas and somewhat of a history buff, I'll go with the Goliad flag.









I always believe in peace through superior firepower.


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## Padre

Marcus said:


> Being from Texas and somewhat of a history buff, I'll go with the Goliad flag.
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> I always believe in peace through superior firepower.


Hey, smokem if you gottem...


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## staceyj

I'd like to think I would stand and fight for guns, but I don't know until the time arises. I pray it doesn't come to that.


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## hiwall

I could easily see the reasons to bury a couple guns. Most people have heard not to have all your eggs in one basket. If they come for your guns it will not be one or two guys. It will be with an overwhelming force. That is how all police/army actions are usually done. If you want to resist it would be stupid to do it on their terms. You should pick the time and place not let them do it for you.


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## sailaway

Marcus said:


> Being from Texas and somewhat of a history buff, I'll go with the Goliad flag.
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> I always believe in peace through superior firepower.


Marcus, I've seen this flag before, what's the story behind it?:scratch


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## Zanazaz

Jezcruzen said:


> Lots of talk about burying firearms. Its increased since the shooting in Aurora and the re-newed call for more gun regulation.
> 
> My question is.... if things are bad enough to cause anyone to bury their firearms, how bad would it have to get to dig them up again and use them?
> 
> When the British were marching on Concorde to capture the local magazine, those Minutemen didn't run out back and bury their rifles.:surrender:
> 
> Think about it!


Good point Jescruzen, and here's my "opinion".

Okay, it's all well and good to bury/hide your guns, but let's discuss this...

So you bury/hide your "good guns", and have a couple to turn in to the fedguv. So... you think that's good enough?

1. When you need your good guns you have to dig them up, or retrieve them. That takes time, and in a "situation" do you have that much time?

2. Let's talk OPSEC. You think this forum is completely safe from prying eyes? Talking about burying guns, and you've already blown OPSEC. Read the thread about Civil War, and the forum members who would turn in their guns to protect their families. You don't think, if they would do that, then they wouldn't rat out members of this forum?

3. Give people a little credit, just because they work for the fedguv, ( yes, I misspelled it on purpose ), don't think they wouldn't think of using metal detectors/ground penetrating radar in your backyard???

4. Oh but Zanazaz, we have our guns at our BOL, AND BURIED!. Well, hopefully not all of your guns, because what if travel is restricted? Check points? Armed patrols? Roving bands of MZBs? No guns? Good luck. Also, again refer to #3. Is the land title to your BOL under your name?

*The best FIREARM is the one within reach. *So think people! Think, and think some more. Then think again. No I'm not paranoid. I'm intelligent. I think things through. Every possible scenario.

Not willing to fight for your rights? Then rethink the whole "prepping" thing.

Am I being harsh? Heck yes! Somebody needs to be harsh. The world is on the verge of some very bad things happening. Get a grip. Think things through.

This forum is good for some things... not so good for other "things"...

I could go on, but would you "listen"?


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## Padre

Zanazaz said:


> Good point Jescruzen, and here's my "opinion".


Well thanks for that buzz kill.... LOL! I suppose you are in some way right!

On a lighter note, I had a young girl come up to me out of the blue and tell me she wants one of those black guns. It's amazing, I am not in a RED state by any stretch of the imagination, but people in my neck of the woods are armed to the teeth and there are a lot of young people getting into it. My gun shop regularly has lines out the door and runs out of PALLETS of .223 in days. That's why gun control won't work.

There is a reason why the first amendment comes first, you can't take away the second when people still think they need it. We need to KEEP waging the war of ideas, its the best fight for the money to be engaged in. Keep up the pressure on your friends and neighbors to think about self-defense and limited government and our recourse in case of tyranny. Invite them to the range, nothing works better than giving someone a gun (with a HI-CAP mag) and letting them blast away at a target!!! We are winning the battle that matters now, a battle that our brethren in Britain ceded prematurely, and we can't give up!

They can't take away our 2nd so long as we use the 1st well, and they can't take away the 1st so long as we are ready to use the 2nd!


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## Padre

*To quote WIKI*



sailaway said:


> Marcus, I've seen this flag before, what's the story behind it?:scratch


*American Revolution
*
The port town of Sunbury is now a ghost town, but it was once nearly as important a port as Savannah. Fort Morris was constructed there by the authority of the Continental Congress. A contingent of British soldiers attempted to take the fort on November 25, 1778. The American contingent at Fort Morris was led by Colonel John McIntosh (c. 1778-1826). The Americans numbered only 127 Continental soldiers plus a few militiamen and local citizens. The fort itself was crudely constructed and could not have withstood any concerted attack.

The British Col. Fuser demanded Fort Morris' surrender through a written note to the American rebels. He had 500 men plus artillery. Though clearly outnumbered, Col. McIntosh's defiant written response to the British demand included the following line: "As to surrendering the fort, receive this laconic reply: COME AND TAKE IT!". The British declined to attack, in large part due to their lack of intelligence regarding other forces in the area. Col. Fuser believed a recent skirmish in the area, combined with Col. McIntosh's bravado, might have indicated reinforcements and so the British withdrew.
The British returned January 1779 with a larger force. They later conquered and controlled nearly all of Georgia for the next few years Col. McIntosh's defiance was one successful and heroic event which inspired the patriots as the War moved to the Carolinas and then north.

*Texas Revolution*

In early January 1831, Green DeWitt wrote to Ramón Músquiz, the top political official of Bexar, and requested armament for defence of the colony of Gonzales. This request was granted by delivery of a small used cannon. The small bronze cannon was received by the colony and signed for on March 10, 1831, by James Tumlinson, Jr. The swivel cannon was mounted to a blockhouse in Gonzales, Texas and later was the object of Texas pride.

At the minor skirmish known as the Battle of Gonzales-the first battle of the Texas Revolution against Mexico-a small group of Texans successfully resisted the Mexican forces who had orders from Col. Domingo de Ugartechea to seize their cannon. As a symbol of defiance, the Texans had fashioned a flag containing the phrase "come and take it" along with a black star and an image of the cannon which they had received six years earlier from Mexican officials-this was the same message that was sent to the Mexican government when they told the Texans that they had to return their cannon-failure to comply with the Mexican's original demands led to the failed attempt by the Mexican military to forcefully take back the cannon.


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## Zanazaz

Padre, yup. I agree. The more people that have guns, the less the government will be able to do.

Our first defense should be to contact our senators and congressmen. and tell them what we think about gun control or even a gun ban. Enough letters, emails, and phone calls, and they will see the writing on the wall. They usually want to get re-elected.

If for some odd reason guns do get banned, ( I highly doubt it will happen ), and the UN sends in foreign troops to aid in the gun seizure, then all bets are off. They still won't have enough man-power or equipment to seize all the guns.

The ones that do have guns buried will dig them up, and hopefully use them.

My post above was meant to open some eyes, and really get people thinking. I know I probably pissed some people off, but... I don't care. After reading some of the responses on the Civil War thread, I really became appalled at some of the attitudes.


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## BlueShoe

Stashing guns doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing to do. It's the "don't store all your eggs" reasoning. Stashing some doesn't mean you don't have some to use. Guerrilla fighters do that.

Wiki alert!


> About 700 British Army regulars, under Lieutenant Colonel Francis Smith, were given secret orders to capture and destroy military supplies that were reportedly stored by the Massachusetts militia at Concord. Through effective intelligence gathering, Patriot colonials had received word weeks before the expedition that their supplies might be at risk and had moved most of them to other locations


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## Zanazaz

Yes, tenOC, but only two things wrong with that. The first one is you have to have multiple guns, and many people can't afford that many. Second, you have to have a secure secondary location, and I'm not so sure there is such a thing. Maybe during the Revolutionary War, but today??? You want to risk losing the only firearms you have? It's a great idea if you can afford multiple guns, if you can't? Why risk it? Keep them close so you can use them. Is that unreasonable?


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## oldvet

Zanazas

You may have pissed some folks off, but rest assured I am not one of them. I believe that you have totally hit the mark with your posts on this thread and on the Civil War thread. 

You either stand up for what you believe in and face whatever is comming at you or rollover and start selling out for whatever bone they deem to throw at you. 

Now I know that sounds harsh and will probably piss off some people but like you I really don't care, because it's the way I think and the way I have lived my life for 65 years and I Damn sure ain't gonna change now and give in to something that I am totally against.

As far as hiding/burying your guns, you again hit the mark. The enimies of the 2nd A. can and do read these forums and do know who and where you are, so "do the math".

I have said this before and will repeat it here. I purchased almost all of my firearms through dealers/gun shops and filled out all of the proper paperwork (4473) so don't think for a second that "they" don't know what I have. 

Some folks will argue that most dealers would destroy their 4473's before turning them over to BB, and that is probably true, but every time you bought that firearm from a dealer a call was made to the feds to aprove the sale and all of your info they needeed was given to them at that time.

Do you folks out there that want to bury your guns, that did buy them through the system honestly think that they will buy any story of how you got rid of all of your guns? 

I wouldn't buy it for a second if I were one of those goons. 

I know in the past I have advocated hinding your main firearms and telling the goons a bunch of BS about where they are, but that was in the past and in the months since then I have had time to really think about what I really believe and stand for, and if I am truly ready to lay down my life for what i believe in. The answer to all of that is I believe in all of our God given rights and those spelled out in the Constitution, and yes I am willing to lay down my life for my belief's. 

Like the Mother of the Spartan Warrior told here son on the eve of battle, come home behind your shield or on it.


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## BlueShoe

If you only have one egg, it wouldn't make a lot of sense to bury it unless you know you aren't going to use it until later. 
You don't have to have a secondary location, though. Your crawl space or yard will do.
If you have several eggs, you are blessed. Most egg owners have more than one. Some have hundreds. If there is an exodus wherein people are required to evacuate/leave, along that path is when they will have an opportunity to collect your eggs as you pass. If you bury your eggs for later, they won't be collected as you sit in a line of cars on the interstate or walk a trail with a hundred thousand other people. On the interstate they can stack much military might and one guy holding his eggs isn't going to make much of a stand. Even 15 guys holding their eggs. 

Our government troops were heading to seize all the eggs, but the colonists moved them.


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## BlueShoe

oldvet said:


> Zanazas
> I have said this before and will repeat it here. I purchased almost all of my firearms through dealers/gun shops and filled out all of the proper paperwork (4473) so don't think for a second that "they" don't know what I have.
> 
> Some folks will argue that most dealers would destroy their 4473's before turning them over to BB, and that is probably true, but every time you bought that firearm from a dealer a call was made to the feds to aprove the sale and all of your info they needeed was given to them at that time.
> 
> Do you folks out there that want to bury your guns, that did buy them through the system honestly think that they will buy any story of how you got rid of all of your guns?


Just about everything I have went through a dealer on a yellow sheet.
I've bought a couple through pawn shops. They do the same background check as any dealer. On the local shops where it asks for you SS# and says OPTIONAL on it, they insist that the system won't approve the sale unless you provide it. I provided it the first time and was never asked again. That tells you that they have stored your number or they have flagged your purchases as having provided the number in the past. I refused to write it on the form though. I handed the number on a post it and took it with me after he entered it.

I found a rifle at another shop and got the same story and same treatment. It was a hunting rifle I had been looking for and the price was good enough. I walked away because it was time to tell the shops I'm voting with my feet. I buy from a dealers, but I'm not volunteering information that the form says I don't have to. That's also an opportunity for ID left. No gun store I've bought from has required the number. I've heard them manually call in the sheet for a background check and when it comes to the SS# question the shop owner says DECLINED and they move to the next question. DECLINED as in, declined to provide the SS number.

But buying from a private seller is an honest sale too. My first ever rifle was a private sale purchase.


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## 101airborne

If I hadn't had to sell everything but my .22 rifle due to a lay off I'd bury them if things got bad enough. It would kinda depend on the when of digging them up. Likly after everything falls apart and we basically have no order left.


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## LongRider

oldvet said:


> I have said this before and will repeat it here. I purchased almost all of my firearms through dealers/gun shops and filled out all of the proper paperwork (4473) so don't think for a second that "they" don't know what I have.


Everyone should always purchase their guns from an authorized dealer and if available use the state voluntary registration system so they have all the benefits of the government protection.

Never understood why folks only buy their guns in private face to face purchases and don't register their guns. Must be the same kind of secretive privacy fanatics who close the blinds of their bed room window and use those paper shredders on their mail.


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## oldvet

Nice try, but you weren't even able to raise a single hackle from this old fart.


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## BillM

*FFL*



tenOC said:


> Just about everything I have went through a dealer on a yellow sheet.
> I've bought a couple through pawn shops. They do the same background check as any dealer. On the local shops where it asks for you SS# and says OPTIONAL on it, they insist that the system won't approve the sale unless you provide it. I provided it the first time and was never asked again. That tells you that they have stored your number or they have flagged your purchases as having provided the number in the past. I refused to write it on the form though. I handed the number on a post it and took it with me after he entered it.
> 
> I found a rifle at another shop and got the same story and same treatment. It was a hunting rifle I had been looking for and the price was good enough. I walked away because it was time to tell the shops I'm voting with my feet. I buy from a dealers, but I'm not volunteering information that the form says I don't have to. That's also an opportunity for ID left. No gun store I've bought from has required the number. I've heard them manually call in the sheet for a background check and when it comes to the SS# question the shop owner says DECLINED and they move to the next question. DECLINED as in, declined to provide the SS number.
> 
> But buying from a private seller is an honest sale too. My first ever rifle was a private sale purchase.


I held an FFL for 21 years. When you buy from a licensed dealer, he is required to do a background check through the FBI system.

He doesn't turn in the Yellow sheet until he goes out of business . They are retained in his store.

The FBI is required by law to destroy all applications for back ground checks within thirty days. Retention of these records or listing them is a violation of US Codes.

If they want to know who purchased a particular firearm used in a crime and recovered by them, they have to go back through the wholesaler , to locate the FFL dealer and formally request the information from him.

Firearm registration by the federal goverment is against the law . they have no federal registration of firearms.

Some states and citys do but I would not reside in one that did.

When an FFL dealer goes out of business, he sends his records to the ATF . They review them and if all is in order, they are required to destroy them also.


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## LongRider

oldvet said:


> Nice try, but you weren't even able to raise a single hackle from this old fart.


Come on, really? That was not my intent at all.


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## LongRider

BillM said:


> Retention of these records or listing them is a violation of US Codes.


So was Watergate, rendition, waterboarding need I go on. I would hope that the average 12 years knows our government does not play by the "rules"


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## BlueShoe

And the CIA is prohibited from conducting their trade inside the borders of the USA. They still did and do it.


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## hdb90

I wrote this once and wasn't logged in. If it also appears again sorry for double posting. Have any of you ever read "The Frontiersman" by Allan Eckert? Simon Kenton and two other men were trapping in northwest Ohio in the winter time. They were all three in camp and had stripped down and hung their clothes up to dry. With their pants literally down they were attacked by indians. Simon Kenton ran into the dark with nothing on. He worked his way into Indiana and south to Kentucky. After days of travelling he located settlers who nursed him back to health. Simon Kenton never again had all of his belongings in one location. Simon cached clothing and weapons in different locations. It always seems like things never happen when we expect them too. Shouldn't we also be prepared in case our pants are down?


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## Jezcruzen

"Go tell the Spartans, oh stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie."

Modern rendition - Go tell the Founders, oh stranger passing by, that here obedient to the Constitution, we lie.

None of us want to go to the grave prematurely. But freedom and liberty is worth it to stand up and be counted, even if going to the grave is a possibility.

We are at war. Make no mistake about it.


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## Jezcruzen

hdb90 said:


> I wrote this once and wasn't logged in. If it also appears again sorry for double posting. Have any of you ever read "The Frontiersman" by Allan Eckert? Simon Kenton and two other men were trapping in northwest Ohio in the winter time. They were all three in camp and had stripped down and hung their clothes up to dry. With their pants literally down they were attacked by indians. Simon Kenton ran into the dark with nothing on. He worked his way into Indiana and south to Kentucky. After days of travelling he located settlers who nursed him back to health. Simon Kenton never again had all of his belongings in one location. Simon cached clothing and weapons in different locations. It always seems like things never happen when we expect them too. Shouldn't we also be prepared in case our pants are down?


Be sure to read the following books in the series. They took away any inclination I ever had about the "Noble Savage".


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## hdb90

Jezcruzen said:


> Be sure to read the following books in the series. They took away any inclination I ever had about the "Noble Savage".


Both indians and whites were savage in the way they butchered each other. Sometimes to the point of almost being demonic. I can see this creeping back into our society. I wonder how long it would take if something happened and there were no laws to restrain these individuals. Protecting what you have couldn't be done by one person. It would have to fall on a large group. There again you wouldn't want all your eggs in one basket.


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## TheLazyL

I don't want the guys with the black helicopters to take my weapons so I bury them. HA!

2 AM guys with the black helicopters wake me up and take me off to a “relocation camp”.

I showed them! They didn't get my weapons!

After I climb over several fences topped with razor wire and crawl the mine filed without the machine gun toting guards seeing me.

Then without supplies, covertly cover a thousand miles back to my house. Triangulate a cache from where my house was before the guys with the black helicopters burned it to the ground. AR-15, 100 rounds of 5.56 NATO green tip, fish hooks, fire starter, emergency blanket and 2 Twinkies. I declare war on the guys with the black helicopters.

or

Far far in the future some Martian will have a profession analyzing unearthed sealed plastic tubes filled witha bunch of unknown items and precious, highly sought after well persevered Twinkies.


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## ldmaster

I read more and more about people getting their entire firearms collection seized. 

I think the issue isn't whether burying a firearm is a good idea, but burying your SPARE firearms can't be a bad idea. 

Don't think it can happen to you? Geez, your head is in the sand. 

It happens ALL THE TIME and quite often there are no criminal charges just an "investigation" because your neighbors said they were afraid of you, or because your ex girlfriend said you were dangerous, etc...

All it takes is ONE restraining order from one yahoo with an agenda, and they're gone. Good luck getting them back without a lot of money and time spent. 

I'd think that burying a spare rifle and pistol with some usable ammo is a good idea - for those people with multiple firearms you have to admit that you don't shoot ALL of them, they remain safe queens for years. ONE raid, ONE burglary - and your collection is GONE.

So, don't bury your whole wad - but bury enough to get to if you CANT get to your main collection.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Ok this is an old thread but I can't resist weighing in.
I have 2714 guns optained from various sources.
And some of them are buried in the states of Oklahoma,
Texas, Washington,Oregon,Missouri,Iowa, and one other 
that I'm not going to tell you about in order to preserve 
opsec.
And I have afforded all this by NEVER buying NEW 
shoelaces!
I have also given maps to 4 people all adult males.
And no matter how you torture me I will only say,
WOULD YOU LIKE FRIES WITH THAT!!!


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## ContinualHarvest

101airborne said:


> If I hadn't had to sell everything but my .22 rifle due to a lay off I'd bury them if things got bad enough. It would kinda depend on the when of digging them up. Likly after everything falls apart and we basically have no order left.


I know it's an old post but after my lay off, I depended on my hunting, fishing and gardening more than ever. I can see someone selling the tactical toys but keeping something that can take down a deer or elk to put meat on the table.


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## Redtail

I think after a primary arsenal has been collected and placed in appropriate and logical places, it makes sense to have a redundant set in a different location. 

What if I'm not home to greet them at the door? It only makes sense to stick a spare Nagant and TT33 in Cosmoline and stick them in a burial tube in the back yard under the bearded irises.


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## TheAnt

Bury your guns? Only if they sprout a gun tree!

Course I lost all mine in the horrible canoeing accident of '08!


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## Moby76065

A freind of mine is local cop that is in the National Guard. He went to Katrina. He asked the county Sheriff if he would ever disarm the citizens. The Sheriff answered "This is Texas, I'm not getting my Deputies killed".

I've told my wife and children on more than one occation. Should something like that ever happen their to run upstairs, and remember daddy fighting for the constitution. As I said when I took my oath.








'


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## Resto

The only reason I could see for burrying weapons is for a secondary cache if the primary BOL is evacuated, which would require a secondary BOL and not many have that luxury. 

In a pre SHTF Gun Ban I could see burrying a stash, but not at a BIL. LE has Metal detectors and Im certain that I would be on the list for a full grounds search. So Id just be a polite little Suck Up, offer LE kookies and milk, thank them and tell them how much I apreciate the UN for making America safe.

Wait a while to make sure they dont come back, then go dig up my stash, get past the check points. Then wait for the STHTF. But I dont see much support for Gun banns in the US and most of my LE friends have already told me they would not comply if ordered to confiscate lawfully aquired guns from American Citizens. Besides Good luck getting Arizona to comply with any Fed laws we dont like......SOSUEME has become our State Motto.

In a post SHTF senario no one, is getting 10' past the block walls of my property unless Im already dead.


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## ldmaster

I think we need to keep in mind that they already know how they'll do it - and they wont use local troops or cops to do it.

The same way they did it in Katrina and around the world, NEVER have mercenary troops deployed in their home area. As in katrina they used hired mercenaries and cops from WAY FAR AWAY from LA. If they deploy the national guard in California for this purpose, they're going to use the national guard from another state.

If the government starts using metal detectors to find our guns, they're going to be very very busy and we're going to hear about it pretty quick and take steps to safeguard our property.

Some strategies involve burying scrap metal all over, great to have your kids do when they're "bored". Bury along existing utility lines. Slant bury under concrete slabs that have rebar in them. 

But it wont be metal detectors, what they'll use is a soil disturbance detection system, when you did up the soil not only are microbes released, but the dirt has a different density for quite some time after burial - much more sensitive than metal detectors. So rototill the area, or use farmland.

Bury at a deep enough level that any metal detector they're going to use will have to be set to high gain, that way even little bits of metal will spike the detector, rendering it useless. 

But, consider, they've deployed out-of-state mercenaries, they're using metal detectors - isn't it time to NOT bury them?


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## zombieresponder

BillM said:


> I held an FFL for 21 years. When you buy from a licensed dealer, he is required to do a background check through the FBI system.
> 
> He doesn't turn in the Yellow sheet until he goes out of business . They are retained in his store.
> 
> The FBI is required by law to destroy all applications for back ground checks within thirty days. Retention of these records or listing them is a violation of US Codes.
> 
> If they want to know who purchased a particular firearm used in a crime and recovered by them, they have to go back through the wholesaler , to locate the FFL dealer and formally request the information from him.
> 
> Firearm registration by the federal goverment is against the law . they have no federal registration of firearms.
> 
> Some states and citys do but I would not reside in one that did.
> 
> When an FFL dealer goes out of business, he sends his records to the ATF . They review them and if all is in order, they are required to destroy them also.


It has been proven that ATF and NICS do not destroy the records they collect. Many, many dealers have had the ATF come in and photocopy their records(4473s and bound book), then leave and never hear anything else about it.

It does not matter if "it's against the law for them to do that". They do it anyway. The law didn't stop the oklahoma national guard or louisiana cops from confiscating firearms in/around New Orleans....


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## BillM

*It has been proven ?*



zombieresponder said:


> It has been proven that ATF and NICS do not destroy the records they collect. Many, many dealers have had the ATF come in and photocopy their records(4473s and bound book), then leave and never hear anything else about it.
> 
> It does not matter if "it's against the law for them to do that". They do it anyway. The law didn't stop the oklahoma national guard or louisiana cops from confiscating firearms in/around New Orleans....


When has it been proven that the ATF dosen't destroy records ? :dunno:


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## zombieresponder

BillM said:


> When has it been proven that the ATF dosen't destroy records ? :dunno:


It's been a few years.... http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/216/216.F3d.122.99-5270.html

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/10/robert-farago/atf-etrace-revealed-backdoor-national-firearms-registration-scheme/

ATF occasionally tries to frame people too.

BTW, a Title 2 dealer told me it's illegal to make my own suppressor even if I file a form 1 and obtain approval from ATF. :lolsmash:


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> It has been proven that ATF and NICS do not destroy the records they collect. Many, many dealers have had the ATF come in and photocopy their records (4473s and bound book), then leave and never hear anything else about it.
> 
> It does not matter if "it's against the law for them to do that". They do it anyway.


I have been told by a retired (in the force from 1946 until 1998) Texas police officer that here in Texas, many municipalities have copies of the 4473s on file at the local police dept, of all firearms sold inside city limits. This man is a stand up fella and I have NO REASON to believe he is lying to me!

I am willing to bet I can prove it as "true" if I ask around enough...

Now, I can assume why they do it... they can use the files to help determine if the firearm used in a crime came from the area and who bought it, and then question the purchaser. HOWEVER - - no "regular Joe citizen" (non-very-right-wing) would challenge them doing it for *those reasons*.

Never mind it is illegal to do so.... but you know all about "above the law" and all that...

Will they use those records in the future to hunt down purchasers to see if they still own them? "May I see it, please?"

Hmmmm....


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## ONEOLDCHIEF

Just watched the season pilot of Revolution on Hulu (thought it was weak), anywho, one thing I found interesting is that owning a gun was punishable by hanging... I often think how reality is often portrayed in movies and on tv even, if it maybe a little ahead of its time... 

Will owning a gun in America become punishable by death one of these years in the not so distant future?:dunno:


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## fedorthedog

I have hidden some stuff outside of my property. I have kids that may try to get here and if I have to go I will leave instructions as to where i went. They know where the stuff is and can resupply, so they have a chance of making it to me. I also understand that if I am forced to leave I risk a lot in movement. If I get raided I want a back up for what I may lose. Just cause you have to bug out does not mean you may not return and needs some back up supply. This is just the it would work if it had to stuff not first line but a lot better than nothing. An old 22 and 500 rounds is a lot better than unarmed.


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## BillS

ONEOLDCHIEF said:


> Just watched the season pilot of Revolution on Hulu (thought it was weak), anywho, one thing I found interesting is that owning a gun was punishable by hanging... I often think how reality is often portrayed in movies and on tv even, if it maybe a little ahead of its time...
> 
> Will owning a gun in America become punishable by death one of these years in the not so distant future?:dunno:


It would be the only way for the government to get rid of guns. They could make it a death sentence for everyone in the home, regardless of age. I still maintain that the government can successfully confiscate guns if they are brutal enough. People will risk their own lives but very few will risk the lives of their families.

But getting back to the original topic, it has to be really bad for the guns to bury them. The guns have to get damp. You're going to have rust. I don't know how long a gun would last if it was buried.


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## LongRider

BillS said:


> it has to be really bad for the guns to bury them. The guns have to get damp. You're going to have rust. I don't know how long a gun would last if it was buried.


No. If you use some proper precautions there is need to worry about rust. There are many ways to assure you don't get rust. As an example you can disassemble your guns clean them and than give them a heavy coat of good quality protective lubricant like Gunzilla than but them in a gun storage bag like these for Rifles or for Pistols than put some desiccant in the bag and remove as much of the air as you can before sealing. Than insert the bag in a PVC tube that you seal on both ends or if you prefer you can use a mono vault burial tube. Another option is to coat the gun with cosmoline before putting it in a tube but that stuff is just plain nasty to get off of the gun.


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## Jimmy24

Boy this has been an interesting thread. 

Lots of ideas. 

Lots of conclusions. 

Lots of fact.

Lots of bovine excrement too.

But a very good discussion. I hope it continues. It has been some interesting reading for sure. 

Jimmy


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## Jezcruzen

Those of you unlucky enough to find yourselves in a federally declared disaster area could face immediate confiscation of firearms the same way as many did in NOLA after Katrina. For the most part it wasn't local authority taking personal weapons. It was volunteers sent in from distant areas and different local approaches to private firearms ownership. They didn't give a crap about anyone's rights because they aren't required to abide by those same rights where they came from.

But I have never thought we would see large-scale gun confiscations on a national level. Its just too unwieldy to accomplish in a timely fashion.

What we will see, and ARE seeing, is a slow erosion of Second Amendment rights overall, and in some places a total abolition. For instance, why should residents of NYC, Chicago, or Washington, D. C. not be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights the same as anyone else? They can't, and no one tries to do much about it. Only the politically favored can have and carry a firearm in those locations. All manner of regulation and red tape binds the average citizen. Thats the slow direction we are heading in where the only people armed are the criminals and the politically connected.

Focused gun confiscations are currently being conducted and they seem to be increasing in number. You all have seen the news reports. Some poor slub has a search conducted of their property under some pretense, guns were found, and now the local cops have the news over to film this "arsenal". Often, the guns are all legal. But the owner has a hell of a time getting them back, if he ever does!

Our idiotic drug forfeiture laws are another avenue to have your personal property stolen from you, including your guns. Or, maybe you are a returning combat vet with PTSD or once saw a "shrink", or someone took out a restraining order against you - all of which could take your right to have a firearm. Now some in government are advocating that you forfeit your Second Amendment right if ever you are placed on the infamous "no fly" list, often placed there without your knowledge or ever a legitimate reason - just some faceless bureaucrat decided to put you there.

Our esteemed Congress passed a bill that was signed into law by the Marxist in Chief that allowed the feds to establish anti-free speech zones around anyone being protected by the SS. Protesting within that declared zone, and convicted, means you now are a felon - aka, NO GUNS!

You see, there are a multitude of ways the dishonest can go after your guns without kicking in your door. Many of those ways you may not even be aware of, or loss of you Second Amendment right is collateral damage of some other offense as decided by the king.

I personally advocate dispersal of your weapons, as well as other things. I just disagree with the common premise of burying them instead of using them if "things" degenerate so badly if that use of them might turn things around. I ask myself... What would George (Washington) do?


----------



## LongRider

Jezcruzen said:


> Those of you unlucky enough to find yourselves in a federally declared disaster area could face immediate confiscation of firearms the same way as many did in NOLA after Katrina.


I like the tone and content of most your post but slight misstatement here. Post Katrina Bush signed into law the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 Which specifically prohibits the confiscation of legally owned firearms during a federally declared disaster. Doing so would result in forfeiture of all federal aid to the area. Not saying that local authority won't screw up but there is now recourse with teeth to stop any unlawful confiscation during a disaster.



Jezcruzen said:


> What we will see, and ARE seeing, is a slow erosion of Second Amendment rights overall, and in some places a total abolition. For instance, why should residents of NYC, Chicago, or Washington, D. C. not be able to exercise their Second Amendment rights the same as anyone else? They can't, and no one tries to do much about it.


Also this. The Second Amendment Foundation has done dramatic things to stop these abuses. Heller vs Washington DC and McDonald vs Chicago have both resulted in the first time ever that the Supreme Court has addressed as to whether or not 2A is an individual right. With the court ruling in our favor. There are in fact many good pro 2A things being accomplished.


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## LincTex

LongRider said:


> Post Katrina Bush signed into law the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 Which specifically prohibits the confiscation of legally owned firearms during a federally declared disaster. Not saying that local authority won't screw up but there is now recourse with teeth to stop any unlawful confiscation during a disaster.


Printing out copies now... to hand out later.


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## Jezcruzen

LongRider said:


> I like the tone and content of most your post but slight misstatement here. Post Katrina Bush signed into law the Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 Which specifically prohibits the confiscation of legally owned firearms during a federally declared disaster. Doing so would result in forfeiture of all federal aid to the area. Not saying that local authority won't screw up but there is now recourse with teeth to stop any unlawful confiscation during a disaster.
> 
> Also this. The Second Amendment Foundation has done dramatic things to stop these abuses. Heller vs Washington DC and McDonald vs Chicago have both resulted in the first time ever that the Supreme Court has addressed as to whether or not 2A is an individual right. With the court ruling in our favor. There are in fact many good pro 2A things being accomplished.


Thanks for the additional info. and clarification, Longrider. You are absolutely correct. But think... how many federal laws has Obama ignored already and what has a flaccid Congress done about it? After the Heller decision, what difference has it really made in either Chicago or D.C.? Local bureaucrats just tossed a load of regulations out there. I don't think D.C. even has a FFL dealer currently within the District. D.C. used zoning law to keep new ones out!


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## TheLazyL

Jezcruzen said:


> ... how many federal laws has Obama ignored already and what has a flaccid Congress done about it? ...


Why don't you file a suit then?

AND NO I AIN'T FOR OBAMA!

Just a bad day at work and tired of people complaining that "no one" is doing anything about "it" including the people complaining!

Get off your duff!

Vote!

Run for public office!

Attend Board meetings!


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## LongRider

Jezcruzen said:


> Thanks for the additional info. and clarification, Longrider. You are absolutely correct. But think... how many federal laws has Obama ignored already and what has a flaccid Congress done about it? After the Heller decision, what difference has it really made in either Chicago or D.C.? Local bureaucrats just tossed a load of regulations out there. I don't think D.C. even has a FFL dealer currently within the District. D.C. used zoning law to keep new ones out!


Based on Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act of 2006 gun confiscation during a disaster automatically cuts off all federal aid to that location. So it does have some teeth. Few if any local governments want to risk being seen as being responsible for having aid cut off in time of crisis. It would pretty much end their career feeding off of the public tit.

I do not live in either area so am not aware of any positive change Heller and McDonald has had locally. The BS the local governments are putting up is to be expected but the 2nd Amendment Foundation has not stopped fighting. In time the citizens will get sick of spending tax payer money to resist a court order. That happened in Seattle the Mayor vowed to ban guns in local parks despite the AG's statement that to do so would violate the State Constitution, and State preemption. The 2nd Amendment Foundation's promised to sue the city of he did so. He got voted out of office and lost his career.

Heller and McDonald has made a massive difference nationally for the first time the Supreme Court has ruled that like the rest of the Bill Of Rights the right to bear arms is an individual right that shall not be infringed upon. That ends the anti argument that it was intended to protect the "militia" right to bear arms. That in turn provides the foundation to over turn many anti gun laws as was the case made against the prohibition against guns in national parks. So they have already accomplished a lot and will continue to do so based upon those two rulings they were landmark decisions for civil rights activists.


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## Jezcruzen

Longrider, I can't argue with anything that you have said. If we were dealing with a federal government populated with individuals who knew that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the ultimate bottom line I would feel a lot more secure. But we are not. 

This administration has shown its contempt for the Constitution and Bill of Rights on numerous occasions, and the MSM cover for them. 

How many of Obama's executive orders have now been issued? To what end are they? How many lies has he told? How much favoritism has he shown?

The real fact is that our freedom was taken some time ago. To think otherwise is an illusion. We are now living in various levels of government control. More here... less there. 

Please tell me, what is it that you can do of significance with your perceived freedom? Add on to your property? Buy a gun? Carry a gun? Own property free and clear? Travel? Speak freely? How many months of the year are you working now before the king says you can keep what you earn? Please tell me all about the freedom that you enjoy.

This is in no ways an attack on anything you have said or you personally. Please don't take it that way! I'll just saying that we are in deep sh*t and things are not the way we were taught. 

These are some of the desperate times that try men's hearts that we have heard about. But NEVER in human history has it been this large - worldwide it seems. No human has or will see what we will see!


----------



## LincTex

Jezcruzen said:


> Please tell me, what is it that you can do of significance with your perceived freedom? Add on to your property? Buy a gun? Carry a gun? Own property free and clear? Travel? Speak freely? How many months of the year are you working now before the king says you can keep what you earn? Please tell me all about the freedom that you enjoy.


I have lamented this... it is more obvious when you visit/live in another country.

In Russia, if you get pulled over for speeding, you hand the cop a $3 bottle of Vodka and all is well. People aren't supposed to own military rifles, but no one enforces that law at all.

I understand why the laws we have in this country were written... but what I disagree with is how they are abused so greatly... and the fees for various permits, taxes for schools that I have no children attending at, etc. are just abuses of power, that's all.


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## cnsper

Before you seal your container of guns for burial, throw in about 3-4 hand warmers. They will remove the oxygen and moisture from the inside and no corrosion can take place when that happens.


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## LongRider

cnsper said:


> Before you seal your container of guns for burial, throw in about 3-4 hand warmers. They will remove the oxygen and moisture from the inside and no corrosion can take place when that happens.


Thats an interesting bit of info, that maybe worth using. Any idea of how or why that works. Most hand warmers I have seen are sealed plastic. Do you know if that is as or more effective as using desiccant?



Jezcruzen said:


> Longrider, I can't argue with anything that you have said. If we were dealing with a federal government populated with individuals who knew that the Constitution and Bill of Rights is the ultimate bottom line I would feel a lot more secure. But we are not.
> 
> This administration has shown its contempt for the Constitution and Bill of Rights on numerous occasions, and the MSM cover for them.
> 
> How many of Obama's executive orders have now been issued? To what end are they? How many lies has he told? How much favoritism has he shown?
> 
> The real fact is that our freedom was taken some time ago. To think otherwise is an illusion. We are now living in various levels of government control. More here... less there.
> 
> Please tell me, what is it that you can do of significance with your perceived freedom? Add on to your property? Buy a gun? Carry a gun? Own property free and clear? Travel? Speak freely? How many months of the year are you working now before the king says you can keep what you earn? Please tell me all about the freedom that you enjoy.
> 
> This is in no ways an attack on anything you have said or you personally. Please don't take it that way! I'll just saying that we are in deep sh*t and things are not the way we were taught.
> 
> These are some of the desperate times that try men's hearts that we have heard about. But NEVER in human history has it been this large - worldwide it seems. No human has or will see what we will see!


As I said previously


LongRider said:


> I like the tone and content of most your post


We are very much agreement about the oppressive nature of our government. There was just a couple of fact I thought you might want updated. 
Obama was a professor of Constitutional Law prior to jumping on the presidential fast track. If I did not think he was a corporate pawn I'd say he is using his knowledge to dismantle the Constitution. I think those who think he is socialist should look at what his actions have really been. We face a far more powerful enemy than socialism.

We are way off topic but to answer your questions
I have added all the acreage I that's available to my property a few years back added a building a few years back as well. House seems to be in constant remodel mode. I buy and carry all the guns I wish. Everything I own including property I own free and clear. I go where I want when I want. I am careful about what I say in public or the internet. I sold my business an Ad Agency when I was forty and retired. I pay capitol gains on my investments but I doubt I'll need to do that for awhile after the hits we took in 98/99. Lets get back on topic here, if you like to continue this conversation PM me


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## cnsper

LongRider said:


> Thats an interesting bit of info, that maybe worth using. Any idea of how or why that works. Most hand warmers I have seen are sealed plastic. Do you know if that is as or more effective as using desiccant?


You have to open them like you were going to use them. It takes oxygen and moisture to cause rust. Well these are actually fine bits of iron in those hand warmers and the process of oxidation (rusting) is what causes the heat. Once one of those elements are gone then there can be no more rusting.


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## Jezcruzen

cnsper said:


> You have to open them like you were going to use them. It takes oxygen and moisture to cause rust. Well these are actually fine bits of iron in those hand warmers and the process of oxidation (rusting) is what causes the heat. Once one of those elements are gone then there can be no more rusting.


O2 absorbers work in the same fashion.

I'm allowed to claim ownership of my property as well... as long as I continue to send in that payment to the local government annually.


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## cnsper

O2 absorbers are over priced hand warmers. Although they do come is smaller packages. They are essentially the thing in different packaging and priced for preppers etc. Kinda like the fuel drying additive when rubbing alcohol does the same thing.


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## dave_fuches

i've buried for years both above and below the frost line and the key is temperature insulation. i've rarely used desiccant and never had problems...i'm kind of new on this forum so i'm not sure of the rules on advertising.

i've got a website dedicated to this subject www.howtoburyyourstuff.com that everyone is welcome to check out. i'd actually like some feedback/opinions from some other seasoned preppers.

if this type of post is in violation of any of the advertising rules of this forum please feel free to delete it.


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## BillM

I am almost 65 years old now and I've lived a good, long, law abiding life. 

So I kind of see it this way.

Why don't I just bury the guy who tries to take my gun?


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## LincTex

BillM said:


> I am almost 65 years old now and I've lived a good, long, law abiding life. Why don't I just bury the guy who tries to take my gun?


I would suppose a person could have a "primary" weapon.... all "extras" can be stored someplace safe for a rainy day.


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## TheLazyL

BillM said:


> I am almost 65 years old now and I've lived a good, long, law abiding life.
> 
> So I kind of see it this way.
> 
> Why don't I just bury the guy who tries to take my gun?


Because if you get caught the repercussions on your children may make you wish you hadn't.


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## doomsdaynews

To all those immediately dismissing the idea of burying guns, especially because there are government eyes prying on these discussions: 

Sure there may be law-enforcement officials reading these types of forums, and there are probably computer algorithms in place to pick up on suspicious activity. But really, how likely do you think the government (or whoever) is going to be to access and print up these records then go around the entire country looking for a handful of people that publicly disclosed ideas about burying their guns? Seriously. Sure Martial Law is a threat and you could have a search and seizure brought upon your home and firearms. But do you really think your name is in a database of people that have buried guns. Especially if they are legally registered, who is going to bother you?

The notion of keeping them buried is a discussion on its own, but there are plenty of hiding alternatives to buying them underground. Still, the least of your worries should be the the government coming to dig up your guns.


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## TheLazyL

doomsdaynews said:


> .. But do you really think your name is in a database of people that have buried guns.... Still, the least of your worries should be the the government coming to dig up your guns.


Overall I'd agree with you. They will have bigger fish to fry then us little guys. But if you get on their radar anything they can find on you will be used against you.

Over 110,000 Americans lost their business, homes and possessions because they got on the Government "radar" thru no fault of theirs.


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## Geek999

Given the experience of many during Katrina, the idea of government attempts to sieze weapons is not absurd, and putting at least some weapons in a place that will make them difficult to sieze is reasonable.

You need to secure your firearms from children, burglars, gun grabbers, and whatever other threats exist.


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## BillM

*Gun Registration*



doomsdaynews said:


> To all those immediately dismissing the idea of burying guns, especially because there are government eyes prying on these discussions:
> 
> Sure there may be law-enforcement officials reading these types of forums, and there are probably computer algorithms in place to pick up on suspicious activity. But really, how likely do you think the government (or whoever) is going to be to access and print up these records then go around the entire country looking for a handful of people that publicly disclosed ideas about burying their guns? Seriously. Sure Martial Law is a threat and you could have a search and seizure brought upon your home and firearms. But do you really think your name is in a database of people that have buried guns. Especially if they are legally registered, who is going to bother you?
> 
> The notion of keeping them buried is a discussion on its own, but there are plenty of hiding alternatives to buying them underground. Still, the least of your worries should be the the government coming to dig up your guns.


There is no Federal gun registration !

There is no state gun registration !

Some cities have gun registration, but not in Kentucky.


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## Magus

I buried them once,now my life is almost over.Bury them no.use them yes!


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## BillS

BillM said:


> There is no Federal gun registration !
> 
> There is no state gun registration !
> 
> Some cities have gun registration, but not in Kentucky.


That doesn't matter. We're going to see a complete ban on guns in the coming years. It won't matter what the law is. Obama disregards whatever laws he doesn't like. Burying guns would be a good idea since at some point either the police or foreign soldiers will be kicking in your door at 3:00 AM to confiscate your guns.

Those kinds of tactics won't start right away. Guns will be made illegal. There will be some type of buy back. Then amnesty for those who turn in their guns. Then rewards for those who turn in gun owners. Eventually it will be a serious crime to own a gun. Possibly even lead to immediate execution of everyone in the same household with a gun.


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## BillS

LincTex said:


> I would suppose a person could have a "primary" weapon.... all "extras" can be stored someplace safe for a rainy day.


Or the other way around. The Feds know you bought 10 guns. You bury 2 along with a lot of ammo. If questioned you could claim you sold them for cash or you lent them to someone and never got them back.


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## FrankW

Ok I'll chime in w/ , what I think, are valid rebuttals to some of the anti caching comments:

1) It's ok to bury a spare AR .. If they come for you in middle of night in some SciFi fascist goon squad deal, no sense getting yourself needlessly killed. But as the line was crossed you can then use that buried tool later to fight them when THEY are unready, on their way home etc.

2) Yes theoretically a cache _could_ be found by regime forces, but its not trivial to look for them... metal detector or not..so its possible your effort in creating redundancy may have been for naught.. but that's no reason not to try!
Also if such lines ever get crossed its not just with _you_ but it's with _everybody_!

In that situation they will _never_ have the manpower to give your property a truly thorough search since they would need to move on to the next place quickly _otherwise a state or nationwide confiscation program would take decades_. They would be under a lot of pressure to be and out of the house maybe even in minutes. 
In a nationwide or state wide confiscation effort they will not be able to spend the days (yes days!) it takes to search even a medium property to any granularity. If they dont get shot at they will likely feel pressure to be out in minutes so they can move on to the next guy.

After suitably threatening you with dire consequencews if you lie, they may even accept your word w/o a search that that Moison is your only rifle so they can move on to the next victim and notch many hosues covred for that night.. If something like this ever happens they WILL have assigned areas to complete in a _given amount of time_.

3) Also caching in no way implies that you should no longer have a modern fire arm in your house, ideally you have at least 2 and one is always cached in some way.

Under the conditions of a national confiscation or state confiscation just wrapping your rifle in oiled canvas and putting it under the wheelbarrow in the shed may be all you need to keep your spare as long as you have the gumption to resist the threats the goons will be certain to issue ( maybe emphasized thier point by roughing you up) when they try to save time by having you give up all "voluntary".


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## Boomy

BlueZ said:


> Ok I'll chime in w/ , what I think, are valid rebuttals to some of the anti caching comments:
> 
> 1) It's ok to bury a spare AR .. If they come for you in middle of night in some SciFi fascist goon squad deal, no sense getting yourself needlessly killed. But as the line was crossed you can then use that buried tool later to fight them when THEY are unready, on their way home etc.
> 
> 2) Yes theoretically a cache could be found by regime forces, but its not trivial to look for them... metal detector or not..so its possible your effort in creating redundancy may have been for naught.. but that's no reason not to try!
> Also if such lines ever get crossed its not just with you butit's with everybody!
> In that situation they will never have the manpower to give your property a truly thorough search since they would need to move on to the next place quickly otherwise a state or nationwide confiscation program would take decades. They would be under alot of pressure to be and out of the house maybe even in minutes. In a nation or state wide confiscation effort they will not be able to spend the days (yes days!) it takes to search even a medium property to any granularity. If they dont get shot at they will likely feel pressure to be out in minutes so you can move on to the next guy.
> After suitably threatening you with dire consequencews if you lie, they may even accept your word w/o a search that that Moison is your only rifle so they can move on to the next victim and notch many hosues covred for that night.. If something like this ever happens they WILL have assigned areas to complete in a given amount of time.
> 
> 3) Also caching in no way implies that you should no longer have a modern fire arm in your house, ideally you have at least 2 and one is always cached in some way.
> Under the conditions of a national confiscation or state confiscation just wrapping your rifle in oiled canvas and putting it under the wheelbarrow in the shed may be all you need to keep your spare as long as you have the gumption to resist the threats the goons will be certain to issue ( maybe emphasized by some roughing up) when they try to save time by having you give up all "voluntary".


Also a few dozen chunks of 1" rebar buried vertically wouldn't hurt either.
Or bury it vertically under a fence post?


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## BlueShoe

Don't forget that those who will be doing the confiscating will also be stealing them for themselves. That ALWAYS happens. And when there are mass raids on people's property the authorities typically steal items for themselves or secretly remove those that they don't want people to have.

My inlaws tell a story of a relative who was married off when she was about 16 to a man in his late 50s. He died leaving her broke in rural Tennessee with 6 kids living on a gov check back just before WWII. They had almost nothing and shoes were a luxury. She owned two long guns from her dead husband, BTW. One of the children was mentally something or other (as a young adult) and got in trouble. The police came to collect him and confiscated the visible long guns. The mother walked all the way to the police station to get the guns back and the police told her they didn't take any guns from the property. Gone. Theft by cops. Any time I hear of an ex-officer with a long time collectible firearm I realize this same method of ownership might have occurred. My uncle was always breaking the law with counter-culture activity (drug experimenting). He got busted and the police raided the house where he lived along with other family members wherein they stole several unrelated items they never cataloged and that he never recovered.

IOWs, they don't just do it for the love of the law. Corruption exists anywhere there are people.



Magus said:


> I buried them once,*now my life is almost over*.Bury them no.use them yes!


Why, Magus?


----------



## lotsoflead

tenOC said:


> Don't forget that those who will be doing the confiscating will also be stealing them for themselves. That ALWAYS happens. And when there are mass raids on people's property the authorities typically steal items for themselves or secretly remove those that they don't want people to have.
> 
> My inlaws tell a story of a relative who was married off when she was about 16 to a man in his late 50s. He died leaving her broke in rural Tennessee with 6 kids living on a gov check back just before WWII. They had almost nothing and shoes were a luxury. She owned two long guns from her dead husband, BTW. One of the children was mentally something or other (as a young adult) and got in trouble. The police came to collect him and confiscated the visible long guns. The mother walked all the way to the police station to get the guns back and the police told her they didn't take any guns from the property. Gone. Theft by cops. Any time I hear of an ex-officer with a long time collectible firearm I realize this same method of ownership might have occurred. My uncle was always breaking the law with counter-culture activity (drug experimenting). He got busted and the police raided the house where he lived along with other family members wherein they stole several unrelated items they never cataloged and that he never recovered.
> 
> IOWs, they don't just do it for the love of the law. Corruption exists anywhere there are people.
> 
> Why, Magus?


 my neighbor was in Florida 2 years ago when his house was robbed, the thief must have gotten scared away by something as he left a few old rifles in between the screen door and the main door. the guys daughter comes to the house every 3 days to ck on things and finds the guns in between the doors, she ran back to her car and called the cops, the cops took the antique guns so they would be safe, to this day the owner can't get the guns back and the robber is in prison, the owner is beginning to think that the guns are in some cops house.


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## Magus

tenOC said:


> Don't forget that those who will be doing the confiscating will also be stealing them for themselves. That ALWAYS happens. And when there are mass raids on people's property the authorities typically steal items for themselves or secretly remove those that they don't want people to have.
> 
> My inlaws tell a story of a relative who was married off when she was about 16 to a man in his late 50s. He died leaving her broke in rural Tennessee with 6 kids living on a gov check back just before WWII. They had almost nothing and shoes were a luxury. She owned two long guns from her dead husband, BTW. One of the children was mentally something or other (as a young adult) and got in trouble. The police came to collect him and confiscated the visible long guns. The mother walked all the way to the police station to get the guns back and the police told her they didn't take any guns from the property. Gone. Theft by cops. Any time I hear of an ex-officer with a long time collectible firearm I realize this same method of ownership might have occurred. My uncle was always breaking the law with counter-culture activity (drug experimenting). He got busted and the police raided the house where he lived along with other family members wherein they stole several unrelated items they never cataloged and that he never recovered.
> 
> IOWs, they don't just do it for the love of the law. Corruption exists anywhere there are people.
> 
> Why, Magus?


Because it would be an honor to defend the republic?


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## BlueShoe

So long as it's by choice and not a medical situation.


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## Magus

Bit of both.


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## camo2460

I'll be damned if I bury my weapons,these will be the ones used to "gut" my enemies so they can be hung head down over a hot bead of coals


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## Magus

heheheh...road justice served on the end of a pike.


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## Sourdough

camo2460 said:


> I'll be damned if I bury my weapons,these will be the ones used to "gut" my enemies so they can be hung head down over a hot bead of coals


Do you know how many firearms you own.......???


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## Boomy

If I ever counted, I'd know the answer.
If I don't know the answer, then I can't lie.
If I don't lie.........


.............. I choose not to know....


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## camo2460

Sourdough said:


> Do you know how many firearms you own.......???


My friend weapons are all around me, I can do serious damage with an ashtray, a choker collar and a couple of pad locks, or a bunch of stuff under my kitchen counter. Ammonia in a nose spray bottle is a bitch, along with that meat cleaver on my counter top. Or maybe there could be a number of pits dug around my yard, and filled with Rattle Snakes and Copperheads, or maybe a couple of pissed off skunks. How about some man killer traps set in unlikely places, like bow traps, snares , deadfalls and spring traps. The options are endless and I don't confine myself to just "modern" weapons, although I do have them.


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