# How far as too Far? Thought on being to paranoid?



## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

So Im watching this show on You Tube about these Militia preeper groups, called the Watchmen. They scare me. Have they gone to far or have I not gone far enough? Any thoughts?


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I watched about the 1st minute of it.. its a bit too long.
the tone was very sensationalist.
We have severe problems in this country.

But we shouldnt go overboad in how we see the world either.
I belive the most likely of "SHTFs" will be discernible at least days in advance (epidemic, hurricane) some for weeks/months ( economic melt down)

The US has a lot of built in substance and resilience so that despite the mediocrity, incompetence and sometimes sheer malice of our political class cannot destroy it all over night.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Seeing things from another point of view makes what we do appear kinda hoaky sometimes. Maybe at times we can all take it to serious.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

What I do from time ta time be take a break from gettin ready. I'll divert my attentions ta one a my hobbies. Then a short time later when I come back ta it I got a fresher point a view on thins.

If ya do nothin but hammer at it constant I thin a feller looses sight a certain thins. Sometimes ya just gotta step back an take nother look.


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

I'll start with, I didn't watch the video. 

But you have to be prepared for anything that includes war, do I think war is on the horizon unfortunately YES. Watchmen are a group of patriots as far as I know. 
What makes you say they go to far?


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok so now I watched most of the video. 

Arizona group, good to go. A border patrol mission very pc and strict about what they have to do in order not to end up in jail. Doing a good mission and patriotic As far as I could see. 

Indiana, what a joke these guys make real militia and preppers look like fat, dumb, slobs that can't even build a hooch. But I'm also sure that's why they got on tv in the first place. I'm saying 1st a real group would not be on tv like this, 2nd the media wants to portray them like that. 
A real militia in this day and age is much more clandestine. Start with uniforms, if you want to be noticed by the powers wear military style clothing 

Florida, good intent, poor execution. 
A live fire with a whole group that knows nothing, not how it's done. 

Anyhow going to far, I guess that depends what your referring to. 
At least they are trying to do something.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

I didnt have time now to watch all of if...but I agree..at least they are doing something. Any amount of organization, training n prepardness anyone gets from being apart of these teams is no waste of time in this day n age...


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I watched it a couple times and thought maybe they should take a ride across the country off the interstates and see the real world. Drive thru Jersey City, Detroit, LA,Syracuse,NO,Dallas, see the things that you don't see on the four lane hy ways, get out and see what is going to be coming towards you when the SHsTF, over 300 million people who aren't prepared for the next day.
all of those groups have their own agenda and remind me of the little bands of outlaws in Afgan.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

I agree a war is on the horizon.
1) I'd ditch the uniform. 
2) I'd conceal carry the weapons
3) I wouldn't use my real name or display my real name. 
The Federal goverment currently considers militia's terrorist. The only way to fly below the radar is to not stand out. 
IF the war was here. Then I'd bust out the cammo.
1) Cammo bottoms, with some of my issued boots.
2) Drop leg holster
3) Chest rig, for ammo
4) Baseball hat and sunglasses

But something they need to keep in mind, is engaging in open warfare with any trained military with air support or with fire support is suicide. The best way to fight a war with militias or using them is as snipers. Targets of opportunity, with shots taken from a long way off. Just ask the Vietcong, or our ancestors.


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

Cabowabo you're right, never show yourself and never go force on force when your the lesser. 
Otoh hit and runs and many guerrilla tactics will work great. Keep in mind it's unlikely we'll be fighting our own current military. 
More like the dhs (bho's brownshirts) and subsidiaries Whereas most of our current military are patriots I believe. 
Read up on mountain guerrilla's website.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> What I do from time ta time be take a break from gettin ready. I'll divert my attentions ta one a my hobbies.


Heck, prepping is my hobby!


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Ireight said:


> Cabowabo you're right, never show yourself and never go force on force when your the lesser.
> Otoh hit and runs and many guerrilla tactics will work great. Keep in mind it's unlikely we'll be fighting our own current military.
> More like the dhs (bho's brownshirts) and subsidiaries Whereas most of our current military are patriots I believe.
> Read up on mountain guerrilla's website.


I'd prefer not visiting miltia websites. We may have freedom of speech but do we have freedom to listen? I'd rather read books that I pay cash for. Do you have any book recommendations?


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It's a bit ridiculous to think you could get a group of weekend warriors together and they could defend the country after it hits the fan.

I don't think we could wake up on morning to a complete economic collapse. I believe we'll see it happen in stages. We could wake up to some financial, economic, or banking crisis though.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

JayJay said:


> OldCootHillbilly said:
> 
> 
> > What I do from time ta time be take a break from gettin ready. I'll divert my attentions ta one a my hobbies.
> ...


LOL

Fer me, I never started say preppin, this been away a life fer long as I can remember. We've just always done thins thisa way. Been workin on the upcomin hobby, fishin! Won't be long an we can get out on the ponds an rivers again.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

But to answer the question, how far is too far?

When prepping becomes the overwhelming focus of your life. 

When you keep your gun handy at all times because it might hit the fan in the next 5 minutes.

When you're so focused on the coming collapse that you want to know where your family members are at every minute of the day.

You practice bugging out every weekend. And force your kids to participate when they think you're nuts.

You top off your gas tank every day.

You count and recount your preps every week.


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

BillS said:


> I don't think we could wake up on morning to a complete economic collapse. I believe we'll see it happen in stages. We could wake up to some financial, economic, or banking crisis though.


Bill it's already happening in stages thats why we're here doing what we're doing. As for OP as long as people don't infringe on the rights of others I don't care what they do. But knowing that the media is always searching for the next crackpot whackjob. They may have shown poor judgement going in front of the camara. That being said they are still light years ahead of the sheeple. IMHO


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

As I said I wasn't sure if they were going too far or not, just wanted your take on it. If any of us won the mega millions and found that we had 30-40 million dollars to spend how many of us would spend 20-30 million on prepping? Admit it, most of us. Ive been thinking a lot about where I stand with the family and the house and where I live. I just cant survive a total EOTWAWKI situation and I think I should just get over it. I should concentrate on the major regional issues that we can survive. I was just going over NBC suits and Gas Mask with some one at work who was thinking about buying them for her and her family, I had to tell her I just didn't think it was a wise thing to do when she didn't even have a propane or kerosene heater. No point in having an AR15, two thousand rounds, a mop suit, and 1000 MRES when all you need to do is heat your house for a couple days while the power is off. Im not trying to judge anyone here, I just think don't think that's the kind of prepper I can be right now. I know we are good for 72 hours, pretty sure we are good for a week, and I think we can stretch it for two to three if we have to. But with 2 small kids and a wife Im just not going to be disappearing into the woods and I live in too big of a town to think I could evade something for long. Don't get me wrong Im going to do the best I can come what will for as long as I can but I just don't see the end of the world coming this week. (O crap whats that siren, incoming nukes from Asia, damn LOL). Im going to back off a bit of the big SHTF and start thinking more about Tornados, fires, blizzards and the like, even Job lose and unexpected boo boos. Again not judging anyone but for me Im switching gears. Im going to hunt, fish, and hike like crazy this year and take my family along as much as I can and make sure my kids can live off grid for a weekend. We went five days without power last year with no preps, so we are a lot better off this year.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

biobacon said:


> As I said I wasn't sure if they were going too far or not, just wanted your take on it. If any of us won the mega millions and found that we had 30-40 million dollars to spend how many of us would spend 20-30 million on prepping? Admit it, most of us. Ive been thinking a lot about where I stand with the family and the house and where I live. I just cant survive a total EOTWAWKI situation and I think I should just get over it. I should concentrate on the major regional issues that we can survive. I was just going over NBC suits and Gas Mask with some one at work who was thinking about buying them for her and her family, I had to tell her I just didn't think it was a wise thing to do when she didn't even have a propane or kerosene heater. No point in having an AR15, two thousand rounds, a mop suit, and 1000 MRES when all you need to do is heat your house for a couple days while the power is off. Im not trying to judge anyone here, I just think don't think that's the kind of prepper I can be right now. I know we are good for 72 hours, pretty sure we are good for a week, and I think we can stretch it for two to three if we have to. But with 2 small kids and a wife Im just not going to be disappearing into the woods and I live in too big of a town to think I could evade something for long. Don't get me wrong Im going to do the best I can come what will for as long as I can but I just don't see the end of the world coming this week. (O crap whats that siren, incoming nukes from Asia, damn LOL). Im going to back off a bit of the big SHTF and start thinking more about Tornados, fires, blizzards and the like, even Job lose and unexpected boo boos. Again not judging anyone but for me Im switching gears. Im going to hunt, fish, and hike like crazy this year and take my family along as much as I can and make sure my kids can live off grid for a weekend. We went five days without power last year with no preps, so we are a lot better off this year.


Excellent points my friend. Yall gotta be ready fer what can happen in yalls area. Round here we've always tried ta have what we need fer tornado's, floods, winter an summer storms an a bout of economical problems. That be what can affect us more en likely. Then add in stuff as we can ta be ready fer bigger problems. Ya gotta take care a thins in stages. We just can't be ready fer everthin, not a financial possibility.

Yeah, ifin I won the lottery, we'd sure nough have one them big shelters in place. Until then what we got will have ta do.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

So I just showed above post to wife who works in personal protective gear, and she says, what do you mean gas mask are in issue? I have 90 filters in my desk at work. LOL


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

Cabowabo said:


> I'd prefer not visiting miltia websites. We may have freedom of speech but do we have freedom to listen? I'd rather read books that I pay cash for. Do you have any book recommendations?


Mountain guerrilla aka John mosbey or something like that is a retired sf and prepper. Not exactly militia so to speak. I understand your active duty and believe your a good guy, so be safe out there.

Guerrilla Warfare is the book by Guevara, Che ; 
the following is a quote from John M.

"Regardless of your opinions on Che, he WAS a seriously successful guerrilla operator. Not reading this work-and understanding it-means you don't take the subject seriously."

Mao Tse-Tung on Guerrilla Warfare; Samuel Griffith translation. Mao is, in most circles, considered the quintessential resource on successful guerrilla operations. While, like much Oriental literature, it can talk around a subject in a very obtuse manner, it's worth reading several times, slowly, and contemplating what he is saying, to fully grasp the understanding.

And you must as any form of uniformed man read "the art of war". 
Everyone reads fm and tm for 1st aid, infantry, small unit tactics, field craft, sniping, all the stuff you already have access to as professional development. 
That's a start.


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

BillS said:


> It's a bit ridiculous to think you could get a group of weekend warriors together and they could defend the country after it hits the fan.
> 
> I don't think we could wake up on morning to a complete economic collapse. I believe we'll see it happen in stages. We could wake up to some financial, economic, or banking crisis though.


Any idea how fast the run for cash was in 1920's? Or when they stole all the gold. Or Germany 1923, or Greece 2010, or Zimbabwe can't remember time. They'll attempt to hide it till they can't anymore.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Ireight said:


> Any idea how fast the run for cash was in 1920's? Or when they stole all the gold. Or Germany 1923, or Greece 2010, or Zimbabwe can't remember time. They'll attempt to hide it till they can't anymore.


I think your thoughts about this are right on. When will it hit us? I think it will be over before we know what happened.


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## Ireight (Dec 11, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> I think your thoughts about this are right on. When will it hit us? I think it will be over before we know what happened.


If only I knew when...
I only know it will.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

My husband and I discussed this last night and we decided to get the bulk of our cash from the bank. We will be thinking about what to do with it before we do this. We have a vent that does not produce air but it is not wide enough. That was my idea but did not work out. Anyone have an idea where to put a fireproof box that would be about 8 inches wide in the house?


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> What I do from time ta time be take a break from gettin ready. I'll divert my attentions ta one a my hobbies. Then a short time later when I come back ta it I got a fresher point a view on thins.
> 
> If ya do nothin but hammer at it constant I thin a feller looses sight a certain thins. Sometimes ya just gotta step back an take nother look.


Excactly! You can get to a state of tunnek vision or even burnout.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> If any of us won the mega millions and found that we had 30-40 million dollars to spend how many of us would spend 20-30 million on prepping? Admit it, most of us.


Not me. I would invest it and use the returns / profits to continue prepping. That way the prep money just keeps on a flowing until I own the entire island and can afford a reasonably sized Navy.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

As you can see, my current Navy is simply not going to cut it.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

I haven't watched the video (video issues on my laptop), but my take is this: there used to be a time when I thought some people were "out there" and kind of scary critters. Now I'm wondering if when the SHTF they're going to turn out to be experts and the rest of us are just weenies... I'm still probably not going to hang out with the uber gung-ho types (I wouldn't be able to keep up with them), but I don't think they're crazy anymore, either. Know what I mean?

I think your plan to focus your prepping on certain possible events makes a lot of sense. And realize that in a few months (or weeks ) you may change back again, and that's okay, too. People prep for different reasons, nothing wrong with that. Can't say any one person's more right or more wrong than the other. I think the key thing is that we're taking responsibility for ourselves and our families, and that makes us more independent, no matter what. (And that's far more empowering than any self-esteem gimmick they fed to us in grade school. )


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

Cabowabo said:


> I'd prefer not visiting miltia websites. We may have freedom of speech but do we have freedom to listen? I'd rather read books that I pay cash for. Do you have any book recommendations?


Hey Cabo' - anything and everything by James Wesley, Rawles!


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

I think your plan to focus your prepping on certain possible events makes a lot of sense. And realize that in a few months (or weeks ) you may change back again, and that's okay, too. People prep for different reasons, nothing wrong with that. [/QUOTE]

Or a few days. LOL

My ultimate plan is to still have that homestead in the country with racks and racks of home caned food and fields of food growing and a big chicken coop and a goat or three. Its just at least 15 years away because of previous bad choices and obligations :brickwall:. For now this years garden will be 8 times bigger then last years, my wife is 100% on board with getting chickens next spring and now shes saying shes warming up to some other animals as well. We have more then enough food stored up for a good 6-8 weeks, water is our issue as we only have 3-4 weeks. Ive got a month of diapers but we are running low on wipes. If I had to I could just bug out to the woods and I think I would be fine, my 3 year old and one year old just cant do that right now so its stupid of me to think abut that kind of thing. The militia folks have their place and I have thought about joining them but first and foremost I want to be a homesteader not a gunner, I don't even own an AR or AK.(we are armed non the less, just not that armed ) Just what Ive been thinking about.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> As you can see, my current Navy is simply not going to cut it.


Kinda looks like a lego kit


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

All those guys are in terrible shape and most are poorly regulated.


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## Skeeter (Nov 7, 2009)

BillS said:


> But to answer the question, how far is too far?
> 
> When prepping becomes the overwhelming focus of your life.
> 
> ...


I don't keep my gun handy all the time 'cause I think the S is going to hit the fan at any minute. I keep it close so I don't have to look for it if it does.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

I finally watched the video. My thoughts? All of them are a bunch of Rambo wannabes. Cabowabo had the right idea - they need to LOSE the camo! They're not fooling anybody but themselves!

Just my two cents worth.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

biobacon said:


> Or a few days. LOL
> 
> My ultimate plan is to still have that homestead in the country with racks and racks of home caned food and fields of food growing and a big chicken coop and a goat or three. Its just at least 15 years away because of previous bad choices and obligations :brickwall:. For now this years garden will be 8 times bigger then last years, my wife is 100% on board with getting chickens next spring and now shes saying shes warming up to some other animals as well. We have more then enough food stored up for a good 6-8 weeks, water is our issue as we only have 3-4 weeks. Ive got a month of diapers but we are running low on wipes. If I had to I could just bug out to the woods and I think I would be fine, my 3 year old and one year old just cant do that right now so its stupid of me to think abut that kind of thing. The militia folks have their place and I have thought about joining them but first and foremost I want to be a homesteader not a gunner, I don't even own an AR or AK.(we are armed non the less, just not that armed ) Just what Ive been thinking about.


I'm living in a 1-bedroom apartment in Tucson, I'm making only about $27k a year, and to top that all off I'm 47, in bad shape, and I've got a small variety of health issues. I am NOT going to romping around with THESE kinds of guys in camo, pretending I'm military when I'm really not. Personality-wise, I simply wouldn't be a good fit.

In order to even be in the running for being TOTALLY READY for EVERY POSSIBLE scenario, you have to be either rich or obsessed or even both. I'm NEITHER! It's not realistic for EVERYONE to have a 10-acre homestead out "in the country" with a stream running through part of it, complete with nuclear blast shelter and 5 years food/water supply.

I'm sorry to go off like this, but people like the ones in the video just turn me off. They demoralize everyone else, they give preppers and survivalists a bad name, and they just turn me off. I'm beginning to agree that maybe that's what Discovery wanted to accomplish all along.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Sentry18 said:


> As you can see, my current Navy is simply not going to cut it.


That's a fine looking navy. Just add a little steel plating to the hull and your all set.


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## KaiWinters (Jan 4, 2013)

Were I part of a group such as this the last thing I'd want to do is attract attention...any attention is BAD attention.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Most of the guys in the video looked out of shape, and some looked fat. The Indiana guy looked to be toping 400 pounds. The simple fact is anytime a militia is ACTUALLY going to be needed, they will be fighting an insurgency. Until then the defense of the country is done by active duty military and weekend warriors called reservist. Now if the militia wanted to get some good training, they need to send a few of there people through military training. Then they come back and teach their members what they learned. Or they need to seriously send their people through civilian combat schools. However the only one I would consider to be anything close to a militia is the one in Arizona, they are fairly smart, and are actually doing a job that the federal goverment won't. 
Now in the case of an insurgency, you don't use real names, you don't wear uniforms, you don't meet in large groups. Until then, the people in the Florida militia need more training, and need to not run around with loaded rifles in trucks pointing it at random people. Cause guess what you point a gun at someone your not supposed to be pointing a gun at, your going to jail. They for sure ran through a stop sign, so if they were stopped how are they going to explain their load out? They also need more time at a range, and they need to get serious about training. I'm not even going to bother with the guys from indania, except to say they played to much call of duty.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

BillS said:


> But to answer the question, how far is too far?
> 
> When prepping becomes the overwhelming focus of your life.
> 
> ...


Not picking on you Bill, just answering the questions.

But yes, there are some folks, like these fellows, who are a bit out there. That is what used to be great about the US, you could be like that if you chose to. As far as I am concerned they are still free to do whatever they like as long as it does not affect me, which it doesn't. As I should be free to do what I like as long as I do not infringe on anyone else.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

Woody said:


> Not picking on you Bill, just answering the questions.
> 
> But yes, there are some folks, like these fellows, who are a bit out there. That is what used to be great about the US, you could be like that if you chose to. As far as I am concerned they are still free to do whatever they like as long as it does not affect me, which it doesn't. As I should be free to do what I like as long as I do not infringe on anyone else.


Well said, I think that's something we can all agree on


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

This is all about proper judgment of risk. If the risk *R* of a particular SHTF event is high, we should prepare for it a lot. If the risk *R* for that SHTF event is low, we should not prepare for it (or we should prepare very little for it).

Mathematically speaking, a risk *R* of a SHTF event is simply the product of the loss *L* and probability *P* of the event:

*R = L x P*

Arguably, paranoia is when you assume the probability is much higher than it really is&#8230;which would lead one to do too much or go "too far." You might also go too far if you underestimate the resiliency of the current societal system, and its ability to reduce loss.

On the other hand, normalcy bias is when people assume that the probability is much lower than it really is&#8230;which leads one to do nothing. For such people, risk *R* is always zero because probability *P* is always zero...or maybe risk *R* is zero because they overestimate the government's ability to reduce the loss *L* to zero.

People who suffer from normalcy bias always seem the most sane until a disaster happens. After a disaster, the paranoid seem the most sane.

I think the key to not going "too far" is to avoid assuming that the SHTF probability is always one, or to avoid assuming that the current system's resiliency is always zero.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

biobacon said:


> I just cant survive a total EOTWAWKI situation and I think I should just get over it. I should concentrate on the major regional issues that we can survive.


I agree. I know I can't totally prepare for an EMP (my version of TEOTWAWKI) because the level of loss it will impose is so great. To prepare for it, I would have to change the lifestyle of my entire family. I "get over it" by realizing that the probability of an EMP is probably low right now. So, happily, I don't ruin the lives of my family members trying to get them to prepare for the apocalypse. I just concentrate on other, smaller scale disasters.

Now, I kind of enjoy prepping. Granted, my wife tires of me buying things that she doesn't think are useful. But this is kind of a hobby for me. Before, I was buying beer, cigars, computer stuff, etc....other things that didn't serve much purpose. Now, I buy food, storage systems, camping stuff, etc. I have fun doing it, so I do it. But, I don't let it rule the lives of me or my family members. The key to happiness is balance.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

My own TEOW is economic ruin caused by global weather shifts. Every day it appears to get closer and closer...


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