# I made a mistake today.



## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

I am now in town for a bit helping a friend at an 3 apartment unit.
Very small town sheriff office 50 yards away.
A old man can circle the town on foot in half a day.
The day has begun well breakfast is over and the coffee is in the cup.
Apt 2 has his kids visiting and I shared breakfast then him and small kids went inside to play but door is open to gain some cool air.
Apt 1 is sleeping in.
A nice truck stops in the street and a man is forcibly ejected?
The man ejected is not exactly using his library voice as he invites the other men to get out with him and never does through the whole scene.
The truck drives away fast slamming the door on the move.
This individual will be called Alfred.
After Alfred stops chasing the truck he begins preaching to a telephone pole?.
Now remember Im sitting on the porch in a rocker with my Pyr at my feet and a chain from the Pyr running under my leg but not clipped to any thing.
Sure enough Alfed then follows a flying bug which he also preaches to in the most profane language I EVER heard
Can you guess where bug Leads Alfred?
YEP!
Now Alfred is standing just off the porch preaching to a nail in the wall???
Pyr is NOT happy but still under my controll and actually obeying the lay down command.
But the porch is vibrating in time to his rumble.
So of course Alfred begins to preach to my boy.
Then Alfred begins to preach to me and the floor really starts to quiver.
Alfred recieves his first second and third warning that the dog is not kidding.
By this time I am envisioning the Pyrs head and spinal column on a stainless steel table in Jefferson city having spinal fluid tested.
I insert myself between Alfred and Pyr and forcibley help Alfred find a more appropiate Spacing.
Then realize this is The Pyr,s job and sit back in the chair STILL SITTING ON THE CHAIN!
Alfred has not learned a thing so I decide to hold command on Pyr and let Alfred approach.
Alfred is right back and invites Pry to fight.
Pyr stays.
Alfred now uses 2 fingers to pull lower his eyelids down to the extreme while 3 inches from nose to nose and still preaching away at the top of his lungs.
Here is the part where I am dumbfounded and expect all training to break down.
Alfred reaches up with his other hand and carefully PLUCKS 1 mustache hair!!!
Pyr flinches back but continues to obey the gentle repititious lay down command.
END OF PART 1


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

I think I woulda let my Shepard have a taste


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## Reblazed (Nov 11, 2010)

I probably would have led Alfred down the 50 yards, let him indoors and told him these people needed preaching to ...


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

I respect your answer but what if the nut would have followed you. Laying your hands on my dog is akin to laying your hands on one of my children.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

PART 2
Alfred at first flinches back 2 feet [ like that would be a safty margin]
Then begins to approach with his hand raised for another hair.
I warn the individual not to pull another hair 3 TIMES!!!
Alfred is still coming with that hand up.
The get it on command is forming on my lips.
Apartment 2 shoves his head out and says hey man your scaring my kids you need to go.
Alfred has a new toy and is standing in the guys doorway and not letting the guy close his door.
Alfred is to busy discussing god and love and hand shakes and peace while trying to push into the guys apartment.
I took my hint.
Tag team.
Im in apartment 3 with my head to the wall and the Pyr laying in his proper spot inside spotwhile threatening the wall.
Apartment 2 is standing in his door so the kids are temporarily safe.
I agree to let my daughter [who has been on phone with me the whole time] call 911.
I am standing at the door ready to dropleash if the kids even squeek or Alfred moves inside appartment.
1 town policeman pulls in yard and trys to explain the error of his ways.
Town police man finally pulls tazer and lightly tapps Alfred.
As town Policeman backs away Alfred again approaches but has learned that is a bad thing pointed at him again.
Alfred does not know that model can fire out to 20 feet so he stays to continue his sermon at 2 feet beyond arms length while the town police calls for back up.
County sheriff arrives and very shortly Alfred is ballanced over the edge of the truck.
Alfred goes BYE BYE.
END OF STORY.
Did you find my mistake?


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

guys no fair posting between Part 1 and 2.
ps dont forget as soon as dog bites him dogs head and spine go to jeff city


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

dutch9mm said:


> I respect your answer but what if the nut would have followed you. Laying your hands on my dog is akin to laying your hands on one of my children.


Um, 50 yards would have been the sheriff's office.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

The only thing I see is not calling the police sooner. But knowing you, you didn't want the interference.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

Well the sheriffs were next door and the man had to call 911 so they apperantly didn't hear any of this the man was acting nutty and "attacked" yer dog. Seein as he had tobe tazed I think. Yer mistake was 1 not lettin yer big ass dog prove himself or 2 not pullin your sidearm.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

totally understand protecting your brother from the jeff city, but you could have bitten him.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Dutch bye bye dog?
Reblazed The county sherrifs station is always locked and Manned by a 63 year old woman who only does dispatch work.
Dutch dog/children yep yep!!!
Follow me? game on!
LUCKILY [boy i hate counting on that] A stronger youger man held his attention.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

Not sure why you think they'd take my dog if this man is coming at me in an intimidating manor and if your an "older" man you were in fear of what this nut was gonna do especially after seeing the truck thing. I'm stickin with my answer.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Grimm.
Dutch 1 Involves losing our last breeding male.
2  BINGO BIG BIG HOME RUN THAT BALL JUST LEFT THE PARK!!!!!!!!!
The 12 angels of mercy were leaning against my bed in my wagon 50 yards the wrong direction.
Heavy sigh while shaking head.............


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

dutch9mm, the dog bites & the county/city MUST check for rabies.
They must kill the dog to do this, unless you have proof of shots.
Or if they are in a bad mood that day.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Dutch In this county ANY reported animal bite that is reported [cat dog chicken or duck] means a test for rabies.
The way that is done here is to overnight cold ship the animal carcass or intact spine and head.
Been there done that.[with a fricken cat]


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh crabapple I like your answer best but I have no teeth so he might have thought I was kissing him and I dont want to see where that ends up.
And ya know whats funny I get the fear for my life reference but I was remarkably calm the whole time and felt very in controll because I knew Alfreds situation if he reached for me.
Kinda surprised I can still be that calm and clear in the hot seat


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

I'm confused 12 angles is yer firearm? Nobody's takin yer dog if he's protecting you.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

crabapple said:


> dutch9mm, the dog bites & the county/city MUST check for rabies.
> They must kill the dog to do this, unless you have proof of shots.
> Or if they are in a bad mood that day.


Well yea ya got yer dogs tags or I do. Is that his "mistake"?


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

I just moved here from watching over 700[?] acres 
no city tags YET.
I give my own rabies shots so the law does not recognize them.
AS any lawyer will tell you THE LAW has nothing to do with right and wrong.
If the city passes an ordinance that every town house must be pink and yours is blue then you are in violation of the law.
And yes the 12 ANGLES OF MERCY is old and rusty and pitted and they have delivered me from evil many many times in a totally gray man kind of way.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

Ahhh well I glad you and yer dog came away from this unharmed. Lesson learned


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Thank you Dutch I hope others can be reminded by my goof.
If I can make this mistake any one of us can.
This says a lot against the lone wolf lifestyle doesnt it.
I kept Alfred busy while apartment 2 tucked the kids away and made a call.
Then Appartment 2 on tag team removed me from the hot seat so my daughter could make the call and I could remove the Pyr from the yard before he had a chance to get confused by the police as Pyrs have a history of not liking uniforms of any kind.
During WWII the german army had a special order to shoot on sight so at the end of the war there were 12 breeding pairs left hidden on the Pyrenees mountains
After the war American Pyr society sent Pyrs back to the mountain to help restock
So if you get a Pyr please make friends with any Uniformed person you can find.
Our mail lady brings him a cookie every single day and she remembers his grandfather she even went to court to defend his grand father as did a small part of this town.
Mail lady got the word out our day in court was not going well and our wagon dog team was in trouble and children started ditching school.
Local folks started to show up from the local factory.
The Judge was a real good man and saw which way the wind was blowing so he gave me my last chance to talk.
To this day I dont really remember what I said but the Judge waited till I was winding down and he said.
So Mr XXXXXXXXX what you mean to say is *&^%E$#WSREX NMJMKIII////???
And I replied UHHHHHH WHAT?????
Then he said it again VERY SLOWLY LIKE WHEN TALKING TO A 2 YEAR OLD.
I was wishing real bad I had taken latin or swahili or what ever that was.
So he said it again only this time he nodded his head up and down far enough I thought his neck was going to break.?.?.?.??.......................................................
OH YEA JUDGE THATS PERZACLY WHUT I MEAN!!!!!!!
SMACK CASE DISMISSED!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Are you sure the mistake wasn't being in a town in the first place :beercheer:


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Your mistake was getting between your dog and the dumb ass.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Tired iron: Yea tell me but sometimes when a friend and a man you owe needs help you have to respond.
Besides the other job was over.
And I am 13 miles closer to my daughter and the family gathering.

cnsper: You do have a point but that animal is almost more important to my families future than I am.
Now 1 year from now after he breeds 1 more time we will be back up to full strength.
Then even at that high cost he would have been released to take out the trash.
I am a firm believer in making the world a better place.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Or have a vet give him his shots so there is a valid record. Then you don't have to worry about your pooch if he nips some idiot.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Mojo: ANY dog bite in this county involves the dog being tested for rabies.
This is done by shipping his head and attached intact spine to a labratory.

Sidebar: Shooting a dog with rabies releases the disease into the enviroment thus spreading the disease.
The only proven removel method we KNOW works is fire so the animal must be incinerated.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Are you saying that if a dog I your county bites someone, it is mandatory the dog be killed and its head and spine sent to a laboratory? That's harsh.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Voortrekker: I am saying if ANY animal bite is reported to the police [IE gerbal dog cat duck horse]
The ALL INCLUSIVE KIND OF ALL.
The animals head and spine are sent to a lab for testing.
The death of the animal is an ''Unfortunate result''
Yes this is very harsh.
The very harshness of this law does several things.
This is big cattle country, remember mad cow disease? we did not have it here.
Though there were some outbreaks in this state [very minor and harshly suppressed.]
If your animal is used as a weapon [either through stupidity or real need] you lose.
So you better be sure you need it before you pull that furry trigger.
Any person doubting for their area might check with the local police each county and state is 
different.
There are some local oddities no doubt for instance a horse that has been trained to sit on
[whatever] or kick on command or use his butt as a battering ram does not fall under any law.
[so far]
However if you are training for these you might want to train with out verbal or visual commands
so that only you and the horse can know and feel.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

I checked and here in St. Louis they just lock yer dog up for a period of observation if'n they bite somebody.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I'm not sure what the step by step is for dogs here, but for cat bites they have you hold the cat in isolation on your own property for 10 days and then if they die, your kid gets shots I guess. We've had a cat bite that required medical attention once and did isolate the cat for 10 days but he was right as rain afterward, but very resentful. I don't vaccinate farm cats but both of my dogs have up to date shots and tags.

I think your dog knew the man had a mental problem. If he had been dangerous your dog would have known and would have gotten him.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Dutch:Interesting what is the charge per day for them to hold you pet in isolation for you?

Lazydaisy67: I find it a bit odd that they would trust the owner to report on and confine his own cat.
The Pyr did not care if the guy was on crack or sick etc.
The only thing holding him back was my continual gentle voice and petting.
As soon as I went to move him out of the drama his first 2 steps were towards Alfred.
He had gone silent and his teeth were bare.
His tail was curled so tight it was almost a double wheel even while laying down.
For a Pyr this is an attack posture.


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## dutch9mm (Jul 29, 2013)

Between 10 and 60 days they are usually held at a local shelter. Couldn't find dollar amounts but it can't be cheap


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Yea I have a feeling a lot of poor people lose a friend who did the right thing.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

there are some ridiculous laws on the books all over, and far to many of them protect criminals. 

We have a tiny percentage of cops here that think it is ok to execute dogs for barking at them , major fail on the screening process.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I'm not sure on KY laws but they are HUGELY under enforced. 

Elderly neighbor was bitten by a dog who had not been vaccinated. No hold, no fine. Old man had to have the shots. 

Our dog has all his shots. He has never been outside our fence line nor bitten anyone (besides horsing around with Hubs).


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

I woulda gone inside about the time the guy started preaching at a telephone pole or whatever. Ample time to avoid conflict and putting myself or poochie in a "situation" especially one requiring a lethal response. I try to be aware, lookin around, and noticing anything odd going down nearby with a default response of retreat to high ground. I figure that's a good way to survive. Served me well so far. What do I know  Glad it all turned out ok. Sucks how many mentally ill people got no hope.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

dutch9mm said:


> I checked and here in St. Louis they just lock yer dog up for a period of observation if'n they bite somebody.


Exactly, same here, I believe that is the same as every jurisdiction I have ever lived in. I know that the first time the state kills a member of my family without provable verifiable cause there will be hell to pay for that murder.

Simple observation of a quarantined animal will accurately determine if an animal has enough other symptoms of rabies to warrant a dFA test. Biting especially when reasonable and justified as in defense of property, itself or its owners is hardly proof of rabies. Now once an animal under quarantine displays other symptoms consistent with rabies, I can see how it could be argued that the requirements of due process have been met. Still it seems to me that a court of law would need to make the determination to euthanize an animal following a hearing and not left to the arbitrary opinion or policy of some agency. It is possible that I am off base here, a link to a law in any municipality, city, county, or state will easily show me my error. Short of that a state sanctioned *"Kill them All Sort Them Out Later"* policy is pretty hard to swallow. As far as there being a blanket fee or fine associated with the states decision to quarantine an animal whether or not it has rabies also seems pretty out of line. That would be like requiring a citizen to pay for their time in jail awaiting trial for a crime they are innocent of. Now if the animal proves to have rabies I can see how a fine or fee for the quarantine and procedure can be levied against the owner. 


Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Sidebar: Shooting a dog with rabies releases the disease into the enviroment thus spreading the disease. The only proven removel method we KNOW works is fire so the animal must be incinerated.


How does that happen? 
According to the CDC 


CDC said:


> People usually get rabies from the bite of a rabid animal. It is also possible, but quite rare, that people may get rabies if infectious material from a rabid animal, such as saliva, gets directly into their eyes, nose, mouth, or a wound.
> Scratches, abrasions, open wounds, or mucous membranes contaminated with saliva or other potentially infectious material (such as brain tissue) from a rabid animal constitute non-bite exposures. Occasionally reports of non-bite exposure are such that post exposure prophylaxis is given.
> Inhalation of aerosolized rabies virus is also a potential non-bite route of exposure, but except for laboratory workers, most people won't encounter an aerosol of rabies virus
> Casual contact, such as touching a person or animal with rabies or contact with non-infectious fluid or tissue (urine, blood, feces) does not constitute an exposure


Regarding the original question. What was your first mistake.

Not knowing the laws in your jurisdiction regarding defense of property and whether or not your states respects the Castle Doctrine. In my state, Washington the Castle Doctrine has always been the default standard. Meaning lethal force may be used against ANYONE who is criminally trespassing on your property or place you have a right to be. That means anyone who does not have an invitation, contract or lawful warrant to be on your property can get their head blown clean off without warning. 
Following that 
As soon as there was a perceived threat the parents of the children should have been informed so that they could secure the kids AND if you were on the phone with your daughter, either your or she should have immediately called the police. If for no other reason than that would set the ground work for your defense should lethal force be needed. 
Also IMHO if your dog needs to be on a leash or chain that leash or chain should be secured at all times or not be on the dog at all. It could be used against him if he needed to act.
Last is perception. I do not see my three dogs (120 to 150 pound Akitas) as protectors but as an early warning system of danger. It is my job to protect them and the family. They are the defense of last resort. Meaning if I am down or unavailable than they need to protect my loved ones as best they can. That said once a hostile invader begins to attack the sanctity of my home I would NOT stop my dogs from doing the right thing i.e. ripping them to shreds.


AgentFlounder said:


> I woulda gone inside about the time the guy started preaching at a telephone pole or whatever. Ample time to avoid conflict and putting myself or poochie in a "situation" especially one requiring a lethal response. I try to be aware, lookin around, and noticing anything odd going down nearby


Agreed probably the best solution presented. The only battles or conflicts anyone ever truly wins are those we can avoid being in


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Last year a local guy took a skunk he shot to a local vet because the skunk bit several of his hunting dogs. Skunk turned out to be rabid. None of the dogs had been vaccinated against rabies so they were all put down. This is in despite of an active campaign in this area to vaccinate all animals because of the increase in rabies. Unfortunately, too many of the folks in rural areas not only don't vaccinate, they also refuse to spay and neuter their cats and dogs for <fill in the reason>. What you wind up with is an unvaccinated intact male wandering the country looking for his soul mate of the moment. As for bites, the last time I heard of a dog bite the sheriff just said to watch the dog for awhile and let him know if the dog started acting weird.


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

You let him get too close. I'd have called 9-1-1 sooner. 21 feet is minimum distance for me as it is minimum reaction distance from at attacker running at me. And nut-jobs are volatile. So....too close.


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## yourpracticalprepper (Aug 15, 2013)

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Dutch In this county ANY reported animal bite that is reported [cat dog chicken or duck] means a test for rabies.
> The way that is done here is to overnight cold ship the animal carcass or intact spine and head.
> Been there done that.[with a fricken cat]


Actually all they really need is the head. I worked as a kennel tech many years ago and spent many a time using a small guillotine to decapitate animals to send to the state lab. I'm seeing the first mistake was not securing the children first and I've always made it a baseline for me to also carry bear spay as well as my 9mm so I always have options.


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