# What are you guys gonna do about fueling these vehicles?



## Kiwi Will

It interests me that when tshtf and these vehicles are wanted to get about on/in, how do you think you will fuel them? If a gallon/Litre of fuel is hard to get, whats the point of having a huge gas guzzling monster? A big powerful V8 is what most mens dreams are made of but in all likelihood, fuel will be difficult to get shortly after the "crash" and what fuel is about will be hugely expensive. Would it not be more savvy to have a vehicle or form of transport that moves by/on the smell of an oily rag?
Question: how much fuel do you use now per year (in volume)? (& thats just 1 year. Surely you would agree that this new world disorder is gonna be around for the rest of our lives.
If the fuel price became 5 times or ten times the price you buy it today, would you think that, that 5,6 or 7 Litre V8 you have still have been worth working on for all those hours & all those $ spent on its maintenance? 
Personally, I reckon that if a guy has the mechanical & engineering skills, I'd suggest the time being spent on making systems to get off the grid and making alternative basic machinery used for food production, steam generation. Im not promoting anything here but.... possibly go look at or research places like Cuba and see what they did when they lost the fuel resources after the USSR collapsed. They had hugely difficult times but now they seem to work pretty good even with the blockade. 
Just a thought
ttfn


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## ZoomZoom

I guess it's a matter of the disaster.

If it's real bad and there is no fuel being generated, I'm not going anywhere anyway and my truck will stay parked.

If it's EMP related, there's plenty of fuel, but many vehicles will be disabled.

My intentions are to have a fuel reserve and a series of vehicles that just sip fuel. ATV's, UTV's, CUT's and such.


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## gypsysue

I think there are people who are hoping to make biodiesel and/or alchohol fuel so they can keep driving. That would be do-able, and as long as they have or can get spare parts and tires, they'd be good to go! With all the "Dead" vehicles around, there'd be a good chance of finding parts.

The rest of us will get in good shape walking or bicycling...


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## NaeKid

I personally burn-off between 60 and 100 litres per week regularly and have no problems burning-off 300 litres in a weekend (off-roading, hunting, camping, etc). 

I also ride bicycle, roller-blade and hike and cross-country ski and snow-shoe, and paddle a canoe.

If I cannot get gas, it would bother me a little bit, but, because I have spent years riding bike already (winter and summer, in blizzards and in heat-waves) and have had a bicycle as my only form of transportation well into my late 20's, I would be very comfortable hoppin' onto a bike and keep on ridin' ..


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## kbamvakais

O o gotta chime in here , I dont think most of us smarter prepers are gonna rely on our vehicles for an indefinite time mine is to get to my bol with the most supplies I can carry and that's it so a full tank in it at all time plus a few jerry cans of fuel and I got that covered and then some, the only viable option for long term usage is like mentioned above biofuel. Which I am looking in too currently for the old Eagle.


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## The_Blob

have been working with this for a few years now...

http://www.esrla.com/pdf/tallow.pdf

you can puncture a berry & light the oil that oozes out


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## sailaway

Just got my motorcycle learners permit today. They get great fuel economy. I also have 10-5 gallon gas cans that I keep full and rotate on a regular basis. I like the idea of having a barrel of gas around.


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## NaeKid

sailaway said:


> Just got my motorcycle learners permit today. They get great fuel economy. I also have 10-5 gallon gas cans that I keep full and rotate on a regular basis. I like the idea of having a barrel of gas around.


I've been riding for years, but, always off-road :ignore:

Tomorrow I write my learners for motorcycle. I spent all night doing the online motorcycle tests and I feel that I am ready to pass that one .. :sssh:


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## Diego2112

I dont trust my car to get me from point A to point B NOW, let alone when the :SHTF:! 

My plan is to get as far as I can by car (run it dry, syphon from dead cars, keep running till I cant run it no more), then ditch it, and set the :ignore: on FIRE 2thumb, continue on on foot/bike.


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## UncleJoe

*What are you guys gonna do about fueling these vehicles?*

We have enough fuel stored, that if used conservatively, could last us about 2 years but that fuel is meant for running the equipment used for food production. This would mean not running the vehicles unless absolutely necessary. For everyday travel, if there would be such a thing, we have the horses, donkeys and bicycles.


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## Tirediron

It is hard to believe that somebody in a PAW won't find a way to make motor fuel, big industry already has everybody convinced that they need to make bio diesel (big scam) instead of heating the higher viscosity oil(s) and using it instead of relying on industy to provide chemicals. 
A larger high capacity vehicle would allow more capacity on salvage runs afterwards
The fuels that are stashed may last thru the "fall" but those who survive to live on will need to fuel them selves because machines will definately lighten the load :scratch


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## Kiwi Will

Now that is a wise set up! Good on you Uncle Joe


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## The_Blob

there are a few start-ups working on human-powered road vehicles that can reach highway speeds, haven't had the op to see any up close, but I'm guessing kinetic/potential storage is involved (flywheels, springs etc)


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## oraltool

For those of us who live in a more populated area storing gas is a tough one. I live in a city 250,000 and don't really have the room to store enough to be even able to function. I have a 50 gal. drum ised for chemical sprayers and a hand pump but 50 gal is like a spit in th ocean of need. I see this as a big hurdle to over come. I realize we would not be going to far from where we are now but it would be nice to be able to get out. This is a BIG problem that needs to be solved for all who are left after the SHTF.


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## longtime

I burn CNG in two vehicles (79 Bronco and 98 Contour)and have a gas well with a compressor. If I stay put, I don't see a problem. 

I also have a 300 Gal. gas tank, keep all my vehicles full (additional 140 gal.) and my best milage car gets around 40 mpg (not the CNG fueled car). 

Not real worried.


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## Desertrat1

*Fueling*

My answer is a layered approach. My wife has a 3/4 ton Suburban 4X4 with a 44 gallon tank I have a Ram 1500 4X4 with a 25 gallon tank we will haul a trailer with a quad and two dirt bikes with us as well as all our gear. So if we travel 100 miles to our Bug Out Location we will have fuel, not including the three 5 gallon Nalgene fuel bottles, of about 50 gallons. The bikes and the quad will go about 100 miles per tank full. So if the fuel is used wisely we will have about 3000 miles of fuel once on-site. That will give us serious mobility and still be efficient.


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## Kiwi Will

It surprises me most folks are thinking that when the shtf, it will be only a short period of time that difficult times will be needing to put up with. 
I personally think that it will be pretty well a permanently changed way of life where there will be a tremendously difficult time for many. I could imagine that what fuel supplies still available (as in diesel and petrol,) gangs or hench-men will take control of it or if still or while the so called LAW is still ruling the slaves, limitations will be put on its use. I imagine essential services Fire, ambulance, Blue and green/brown gangs (Police, Army) and agriculture (for the production of food) will take the major share of it. I believe we need to consider more long term solutions and more eco friendly ones. The fact is we will not be able to travel as we have been for the last 70 odd years. This will be a hard alteration to us baby boomers who have had such freedom, but we have to deal with it the best way we can!


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## NaeKid

Kiwi Will I totally agree that life will change if the SHTF in a bad way. But, at the same time, it could become a good thing! Just imagine all the "healthy" people that are riding bicycles, walking instead of driving everywhere. Just imagine the food being grown in our own backyards in the cities instead of having it shipped in from half-way around the world!

Ya, I can't grow bananas in my backyard (I love bananas) and I will miss them, but, I can grow apples, and, apples are also good!

The changes could become a good thing, but, people will need to be willing to work within the new world instead of trying to hold onto the old one that has passed.


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## gypsysue

NaeKid said:


> people will need to be willing to work within the new world instead of trying to hold onto the old one that has passed.


That is absolutely the best and most sensible prep statement I have ever seen.


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## ed12371

*Fuel Concerns*

I have brought a Toyota Hi lux 4x4 Sr5. I added a long range tank, which holds 128 litres and have had it converted to gas as well.

So multiply supplies of fuel. Personally, I think of the vehicle as a medium to get my family from where I am now to the safest place I would need to be.

Also, to go back into a (still is/used to be) highly populated area to get supplies (if necessary), others wise it will just sit at the camp site.

If you did have to move around vast distances then there are plenty of fuel stations (occupied or unoccupied?) floating around.

After that if fuel runs out and cannot be re-supplied, then the Shit has truly HTF and fuel will obsolete.

I think I like the horse idea, not sure where I'd get one :scratch.


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## UncleJoe

ed12371 said:


> I think I like the horse idea, not sure where I'd get one :scratch.


Craigslist?

On our local craigslist, people are practically giving their horses away because that can't afford to keep them anymore. If we had more space we would probably get a few more.


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## HozayBuck

I have a buddy who is a diesel mech for the local Ford dealer, he has two ford Diesel trucks and he burns used ( after running thru a paper filter) ATF which he gets free at work, somebody dropped a dime on him and he got a visit from the state fuel tax nazi's and proudly showed them his log book of miles driving using ATF and his tax form where he declared it and paid the state fuel tax. his trucks will burn reg diesel just fine and when he has to he will put that in but he has a small trailer he tows along on a long trip with two 55 gal drums of atf, works for him.

I doubt my uptown Cummins would even start on that , wish it would!!


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## lotsoflead

the troopers had a road block here this summer sticking all diesel tanks, even the diesel lawn mowers and tractors that were on trailers being towed by trucks. everything that didn't have the right fuel in it was impounded and took to a state garage, the fuel,was drained out, ther owner heavily fined. tractors and lawn mowers were supposed to have off road diesel, the trucks were supposed to have on road diesel but many had home heating oil to get out of payinf the taxes. I heard they were fined 500 just for having the wrong fuel, charged so much a gal for having them drained and some paid as much as 4000.The law now lets athorities go on private property and stick a diesel tank while it's out in the field working.


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## UncleJoe

What state are you in?


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## lotsoflead

UncleJoe said:


> What state are you in?


north of you in the nanny state, I went thru the block with my car and there were dozens of trucks impounded all for money to fund our social programs.


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## 101airborne

Outside of already having a tank with 250 gallons of fuel stored in a conceled location that I use to rotate regularly, I also have the knowledge on how to make "hillbilly racing fuel" ( moonshine) that can be mixed with existing supply to extend it. Worse case my 92 would run on it alone.


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## ajsmith

Kiwi Will said:


> It interests me that when tshtf and these vehicles are wanted to get about on/in, how do you think you will fuel them? If a gallon/Litre of fuel is hard to get, whats the point of having a huge gas guzzling monster? A big powerful V8 is what most mens dreams are made of but in all likelihood, fuel will be difficult to get shortly after the "crash" and what fuel is about will be hugely expensive. Would it not be more savvy to have a vehicle or form of transport that moves by/on the smell of an oily rag?
> Question: how much fuel do you use now per year (in volume)? (& thats just 1 year. Surely you would agree that this new world disorder is gonna be around for the rest of our lives.
> If the fuel price became 5 times or ten times the price you buy it today, would you think that, that 5,6 or 7 Litre V8 you have still have been worth working on for all those hours & all those $ spent on its maintenance?
> Personally, I reckon that if a guy has the mechanical & engineering skills, I'd suggest the time being spent on making systems to get off the grid and making alternative basic machinery used for food production, steam generation. Im not promoting anything here but.... possibly go look at or research places like Cuba and see what they did when they lost the fuel resources after the USSR collapsed. They had hugely difficult times but now they seem to work pretty good even with the blockade.
> Just a thought
> ttfn


For me I plan on staying put as long as possible, we have three motorcycles that we can use for local area trips. The town I live in is about 6000 in population, and if things got bad we would lose about 2000 very fast, they would go back to "home where family is". Yes my main bug out rig is a Ford F350 crew-cab one ton long box with a 351cid and larger than stock tires. It gets 10mpg when loaded. It has two tanks for 40 gal of gas. Now my bug out location is about 35 miles away and once there I don't plan on leaving. Everything I have runs on gas not diesel, for this area it will be the easiest to find if I did need some. With the three four wheel drives I plan on taking, and the extra gas I can haul, I will be able to run my generator and enduro motorcycles for some time. Time enough to ween our selves off fuel and get back to basics. We also have bicycles, and are no strangers to walking.


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## nj_m715

Get a diesel it can burn waste vegetable oil. There might be long lines at the pumps, but there's no lines at the dumpster behind the diner. WVO can also make soap and heat your house as well.


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## ajsmith

I don't know about where you all are at but around here all the diners contract sell the waist oil, so guys like me are S.O.L. I'll just stick to gas, easy to get and everything I own runs on it-- my F350, Jeep wrangler, Excursion, car and even my generator. That way I only have to stock up on one type of fuel.


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## Murph

*Wood gassification, just like Europe during WWII.*

working on basic prototype for making backyard charcoal now (there is a thread on this site), but discussing upgrading a pick-up with my BIL once we find the right truck (read:cheap). He has 15 acres of old hardwood that we are developing a plan for sustainably harvesting and coppicing to keep us going.

I also am looking into CNG as I live on top of the Marcellus shale. Enough natural gas to supposedly run this country for 200 years. Efficiency from gasoline is reduced slightly, but not by much and the conversion is supposedly pretty tame.


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## nj_m715

It takes some leg work to get an couple accounts. I don't advocate theft, but if TSHF than all bet are off and the fuel is just sitting there. Think about the miles of highways packed with vehicles running out of fuel fleeing from a disaster.


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## horseman09

Murph said:


> working on basic prototype for making backyard charcoal now (there is a thread on this site), but discussing upgrading a pick-up with my BIL once we find the right truck (read:cheap). He has 15 acres of old hardwood that we are developing a plan for sustainably harvesting and coppicing to keep us going.
> 
> I also am looking into CNG as I live on top of the Marcellus shale. Enough natural gas to supposedly run this country for 200 years. Efficiency from gasoline is reduced slightly, but not by much and the conversion is supposedly pretty tame.


Murph, we think a lot a like. I also believe charcoal has lots of potential in many different applications -- and it will become much more important if the SHTF.

But as I understand it, the downside to CNG for vehicles is it's low liquid compression point (I'm sure there is a term for that). In other words, it takes a heavy-walled tank (compared to propane) to handle the pressure necessary to liquify NG. If you can't get it to liquify, then the amount of energy stored in a gaseous form in the tank is fairly low, meaning a very short-legged vehicle.

Re Marcellus, us too. They are running a horizontal leg under part of our property - drilling starts next month.


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## piglett

UncleJoe said:


> *What are you guys gonna do about fueling these vehicles?*
> 
> We have enough fuel stored, that if used conservatively, could last us about 2 years but that fuel is meant for running the equipment used for food production. This would mean not running the vehicles unless absolutely necessary. For everyday travel, if there would be such a thing, we have the horses, donkeys and bicycles.


why would i be driving anywhere? i wouldn't have any place to go.
i would only use my gas for my chainsaws. I would also have to take a really hard look at my house. big buildings require much more firewood to heat.
I would probably block off most of my house & only heat/live in a couple of rooms.

piglett


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## NaeKid

nj_m715 said:


> It takes some leg work to get an couple accounts. I don't advocate theft, but if TSHF than all bet are off and the fuel is just sitting there. Think about the miles of highways packed with vehicles running out of fuel fleeing from a disaster.


I just re-read this thread and something about this post confused me. If the miles of highways are packed with vehicles running out of fuel, how would you get fuel from them for your own vehicle to run? Or, are you talking about the couple-of-ounces at the bottom of each tank that the fuel-pickup cannot reach and then take a chance that there isn't years of sludge on the bottom of the tank?


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## 41south

I agree with a lot of the points made by the whole thread. For myself, I have two little trucks, great mileage and can make enough bio fuel here for what little travel we would have to do. And I aint going nowhere so I don't need a big truck, some folks do need one to bug out with. I can't get by if I bug out, I would just as soon die here as anywhere else.

I store enough fuel to make my garden and mow the fields for two years, and that is not a lot of fuel either, 55 gallons of fuel and 55 of gas. I have a fuel tractor and a gas burner, either one can do the work. 

I do need a horse drawn mowing machine, if I had one, I would be set up good.

And I really agree with piglet, if TSHTF people will learn real quick why old timers had small houses and in areas like ours, and why they were built with dog trots in the center for airflow in Summer.


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## JayJay

piglett said:


> why would i be driving anywhere? i wouldn't have any place to go.
> i would only use my gas for my chainsaws. I would also have to take a really hard look at my house. big buildings require much more firewood to heat.
> I would probably block off most of my house & only heat/live in a couple of rooms.
> 
> piglett


Gosh, Piglet...I'm doing that now!!!


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## piglett

"Gosh, Piglet...I'm doing that now!!!"

ya i too have the upstairs of the house blocked off with a V-match door that i built. I got tired of all my heat going up there & me always being down here.
the good news is though i have lots of space up there for dry storage.
maybe i should get some big metal trash cans (mouse proof) and start filling them up with beans , rice, & other goodies???
what other things should i have up there. I live in the lakes region of New Hampshire so water shouldn't ever be a problem. 



piglett


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## NaeKid

sailaway said:


> Just got my motorcycle learners permit today. They get great fuel economy. I also have 10-5 gallon gas cans that I keep full and rotate on a regular basis. I like the idea of having a barrel of gas around.


Did you do your full-licence and if so - did you get a bike yet?


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## JayJay

piglett said:


> "Gosh, Piglet...I'm doing that now!!!"
> 
> ya i too have the upstairs of the house blocked off with a V-match door that i built. I got tired of all my heat going up there & me always being down here.
> the good news is though i have lots of space up there for dry storage.
> maybe i should get some big metal trash cans (mouse proof) and start filling them up with beans , rice, & other goodies???
> what other things should i have up there. I live in the lakes region of New Hampshire so water shouldn't ever be a problem.
> 
> piglett


Call me scrooge, but I even masking taped the closed doors of the unheated rooms the builders left huge cracks on and towels under the huge door openings!!

We have too many rooms not used here.

10 degrees tonight--it does make a difference to close off rooms...


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## lexsurivor

NaeKid said:


> I just re-read this thread and something about this post confused me. If the miles of highways are packed with vehicles running out of fuel, how would you get fuel from them for your own vehicle to run? Or, are you talking about the couple-of-ounces at the bottom of each tank that the fuel-pickup cannot reach and then take a chance that there isn't years of sludge on the bottom of the tank?


Only a few will be running low on fuel. When the first 10 cars run out of gas everyone behind them is screwed and then they abandon a car full of gas.


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## JayJay

lexsurivor said:


> Only a few will be running low on fuel. When the first 10 cars run out of gas everyone behind them is screwed and then they abandon a car full of gas.


We had an '86 Honda Shadow...no job for a year made us sell...looking for one again...old enough that the experts say EMP might not effect and great on gas.:flower:


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## BadgeBunny

JayJay said:


> Call me scrooge, but I even masking taped the closed doors of the unheated rooms the builders left huge cracks on and towels under the huge door openings!!
> 
> We have too many rooms not used here.
> 
> *10 degrees tonight--it does make a difference to close off rooms...*


It is amazing, isn't it, how much difference it makes? This is the first year we have put plastic on the windows facing the back yard (west). The difference in the amount of time the furnace runs is astounding.

Oh, but back on topic ... I hope I am not going anywhere. Staying in and hiding out is my first choice. We have stored several cans of gas but that is more for the chainsaw and possibly the generator than it is for either of our vehicles.


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## JayJay

BadgeBunny said:


> It is amazing, isn't it, how much difference it makes? This is the first year we have put plastic on the windows facing the back yard (west). The difference in the amount of time the furnace runs is astounding.
> 
> Oh, but back on topic ... I hope I am not going anywhere. Staying in and hiding out is my first choice. We have stored several cans of gas but that is more for the chainsaw and possibly the generator than it is for either of our vehicles.


Yes, Yes, Yes!!! My friend brought me the painter drop cloths ($1 each) as I requested....after she left, I got my masking tape, scissors and covered the windows...her husband made fun of me and told her she better not get any ideas..
So I pulled out my propane delivery gas receipts..when we filled last Jan, in 6 weeks we needed refill...this year we filled in Oct, and lasted 10 weeks before refill...and it was lots colder this year....

SO, I SAVED A MONTH'S WORTH OF PROPANE BY COVERING THREE WINDOWS!!:congrat: .....COST?? 3 DOLLARS!

180 GALLONS DIVIDED BY 6 WEEKS(LAST YEAR, 30 PER WEEK)) OR 185 GALLONS DIVIDED BY 10 WEEKS(THIS YEAR, 18.5 PER WEEK)[email protected] 2.00 A GALLON?? I SAVED $100..

WOW!!


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## nj_m715

Naekid, I just saw your question. I'm talking about the news reports I have watched of people leaving in mass from Katrina sized events. I remember that many of the gas stations ran empty and people stuck in traffic ran out of fuel. Probably because they left the cars running to keep on the A/C. My point is that, since my vehicles are diesel and "have a few special modifications I made myself" I can run on waste oil. I can pull into any diner, bar or grill and fill up while others are walking or waiting in line at the gas station.


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## Tirediron

nj_m715 said:


> Naekid, I just saw your question. I'm talking about the news reports I have watched of people leaving in mass from Katrina sized events. I remember that many of the gas stations ran empty and people stuck in traffic ran out of fuel. Probably because they left the cars running to keep on the A/C. My point is that, since my vehicles are diesel and "have a few special modifications I made myself" I can run on waste oil. I can pull into any diner, bar or grill and fill up while others are walking or waiting in line at the gas station.


Stickin' my nose in to add that you are talking about "waste" cooking oil, if anybody gets the idea to use waste engine lubricating oil Don't the free carbon in it will wreck the injector pump.


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## nj_m715

Yeah, I run wvo, but there are guys that run motor oil. Most blend it with diesel, K1 or rug. I only run it when I have my oil changed and then I just drop a splash into each tank of wvo until it's gone. They say it's hard to filter out all the small metal pieces from the oil and it leaves ash deposits, but at least you'll be getting out of there.


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## The_Blob

Tirediron said:


> Stickin' my nose in to add that you are talking about "waste" cooking oil, if anybody gets the idea to use waste engine lubricating oil Don't the free carbon in it will wreck the injector pump.





nj_m715 said:


> Yeah, I run wvo, but there are guys that run motor oil. Most blend it with diesel, K1 or rug. I only run it when I have my oil changed and then I just drop a splash into each tank of wvo until it's gone. They say it's hard to filter out all the small metal pieces from the oil and it leaves ash deposits, but at least you'll be getting out of there.


Waste Oil Furnaces Used Oil Furnaces Hydronic Heating Suv Cargo Liners Ingersoll Rand Compressors ingersoll rand air compressor hydronic boilers insul tarp insulated tarp carwash boilers biofuels biodiesel waste oil heater waste oil burner waste oil  has lots on the subject

I have a WMO furnace that heats 6000 sq ft easily & I have experimented with vaporizing oil with different methods & then condensing the WMO, I don't know all the properties of the finished product, but when centrifuged I could find NO discernible particulates... :dunno:


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## Tirediron

Back in the late 80s some bigger truck lines starter adding their cused crank case oil to their fuel, don't know the ratios or if it was pre filtered , but they started having pump and injector problems so they quit doing it , the pump and inj "otopsys" showed excess carbon particle to be the cause. 
WMO burners are built with this in mind, there may also be engines that can handle it too. Just don't want somebody trying it on their new powerstroke and being mad.:beercheer:


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## dawnwinds58

We have 4 horses, 3 are mares, there are at least 25 stallions within 10 miles each direction. Two of mine are stocky pullers 1000+/- lbs but not draft bred, and 2 are light efficient riding horses. We have transportation that runs on grass, corn, oats, barley, and any other grain we can come up, sparked by apples and eats thistle. I'd rather try and keep them alive, and move quietly, that stand out in a crowd as the only motor sound they've heard in a week drawing them to me.

Oh, the bananas, make an attached greehouse, 12ft peak, raise the ones NOT cold hardy indoors, but select for open-pollinated, small tree size, easy to root cuttings, and nutritional value. Ain't gonna be any "vitamin-enhanced" anything. Plan for it, nutritionaly.

These guys will be back in force!!

Scurvy is a condition where an individual has a vitamin C (ascorbic acid) deficiency. The name scurvy comes from the Latin scorbutus, and humans have known about the disease since ancient Greek and Egyptian times. Scurvy commonly is associated with sailors in the 16th to 18th centuries who navigated long voyages without enough vitamin C and frequently perished from the condition. Modern cases of scurvy are very rare.

Rickets is a childhood bone disorder in which bones soften and become prone to fractures and deformity. Although rare in industrialized nations, it is still fairly common in some developing countries. The main cause of rickets is a lack of vitamin D. Not having enough calcium in one's diet may also be a cause of rickets, as may vomiting and diarrhea. Some childhood kidney and liver diseases can cause rickets, as may a digestive disorder complication that affects calcium and phosphorous absorption.

Pellagra is a disease that occurs when a person does not get enough niacin (just one of the B complex vitamins B3) or tryptophan (an amino acid) in their diet. It can also occur if the body fails to absorb these nutrients.
The disease is common in parts of the world where people have a lot of corn in their diet. It is characterized by scaly skin sores, diarrhea, inflamed mucous membranes, mental confusion, and delusions. It may develop after gastrointestinal diseases or alcoholism.

The info on the rest of the B-Complex deficiencies are here.

B vitamins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you have a new world, with new needs, plan for it, and don't get stuck in the past "civilization" as we know history ALWAYS repeats itself.


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## nj_m715

I have come across a couple different "recyclers" for motor oil. They all advertised the same ratio. It was around 7% or 8%. I think the EPA put a limit on it for official on road use. I have read about guys running older diesels like tractors or 2 1/2 ton trucks on 75% or even 100%. Most guys I seem to burn 25% but that's just I have read. Like I said I only burn my personal motor oil.

Waste motor oil should just "ash" the heat exchanger in a waste oil heater. The metal is more destructive to IP's. It should pass though a heater nozzle with no problems. I don't use a CF to filter, but I hear a lot of good things about them. It should be able to get it pretty clean. I just heat, settle and pump through a filter. 

But in the context of running away from a disaster, I'll burn anything I can get my hands on. I'll worry about some excess IP wear when I'm safe.


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## JayJay

Nice to see another Kentuckian here.:wave:


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## dawnwinds58

Hi back at ya'! Alot of Kentucky's made a habit of being prepared, lots of old skills still in use. My husband's from Hazard and was raised plowing with a mule. I'm originally from Louisiana and grew up in a small mill town. Between the two of us we can pretty much shoot, grow, raise, or cook anything.

The way I look at it, we have a pretty fair chance of making it through the first winter, and it's 3.6 degrees right now with 4 inches of snow on the ground. We'll just have to see?


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## Magus

Kiwi Will said:


> It interests me that when tshtf and these vehicles are wanted to get about on/in, how do you think you will fuel them? If a gallon/Litre of fuel is hard to get, whats the point of having a huge gas guzzling monster? A big powerful V8 is what most mens dreams are made of but in all likelihood, fuel will be difficult to get shortly after the "crash" and what fuel is about will be hugely expensive. Would it not be more savvy to have a vehicle or form of transport that moves by/on the smell of an oily rag?
> Question: how much fuel do you use now per year (in volume)? (& thats just 1 year. Surely you would agree that this new world disorder is gonna be around for the rest of our lives.
> If the fuel price became 5 times or ten times the price you buy it today, would you think that, that 5,6 or 7 Litre V8 you have still have been worth working on for all those hours & all those $ spent on its maintenance?
> Personally, I reckon that if a guy has the mechanical & engineering skills, I'd suggest the time being spent on making systems to get off the grid and making alternative basic machinery used for food production, steam generation. Im not promoting anything here but.... possibly go look at or research places like Cuba and see what they did when they lost the fuel resources after the USSR collapsed. They had hugely difficult times but now they seem to work pretty good even with the blockade.
> Just a thought
> ttfn


Are you a troll or serious?

Anyway.my Honda can burn on rubbing alcohol if it has to.


----------



## nj_m715

So, I need to trade in my pick up for a steam tractor?


----------



## Tirediron

UM yeah ,I have a 14.6 l diesel gets 6 mpg pulling 84000# show me a micro car that gets that milage per pound . won't happen economy of scale.


----------



## efbjr

*Easy and effective method...*



JayJay said:


> Yes, Yes, Yes!!! My friend brought me the painter drop cloths ($1 each) as I requested....after she left, I got my masking tape, scissors and covered the windows...her husband made fun of me and told her she better not get any ideas..
> So I pulled out my propane delivery gas receipts..when we filled last Jan, in 6 weeks we needed refill...this year we filled in Oct, and lasted 10 weeks before refill...and it was lots colder this year....
> 
> SO, I SAVED A MONTH'S WORTH OF PROPANE BY COVERING THREE WINDOWS!!:congrat: .....COST?? 3 DOLLARS!
> 
> 180 GALLONS DIVIDED BY 6 WEEKS(LAST YEAR, 30 PER WEEK)) OR 185 GALLONS DIVIDED BY 10 WEEKS(THIS YEAR, 18.5 PER WEEK)[email protected] 2.00 A GALLON?? I SAVED $100..
> 
> WOW!!


I found a good way to quickly cover windows and get a good air seal without resorting to nailing, stapling or taping the plastic to the window frames. I bought some bottles of rubber cement that is usually used for pasting photos into albums (LePage's, Sanford's and Elmer's are 3 well-known brands).

Using the brush that is attached to the bottle cap, I "painted" around the window frame a strip of cement about 1/2" wide. I let it dry for a minute or two until got slightly "tacky" and then took the plastic and stuck it to the glued surface, stretching it as I pressed it to the glued window frame. (BTW- you can buy the cheaper plastic sheets that usually come with cardboard strips and nails. Toss the cardboard and put the nails in your toolbox.)

As you seal the window, the plastic will start to bow inward slightly as the air from outside the house is blocked, showing that you have a good air seal.You will immediately feel the difference. I can usually do 2-3 windows with a pint of rubber cement.

In the spring, the plastic can be carefully peeled off the plastic, usually without ripping, and the cement can easily be rubbed off the window frame without causing damage to the paint.

I did the apartment windows of a friend like this. Eight windows took about 45 minutes. The wind hardly slowed down as it went through her apartment causing her to pay an enormous heating bill each month.  After I finished, the apartment got so warm that she turned down the heat from High to Low and left it there all winter and told me her heating bill dropped about 75%.


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## Mobster

gypsysue said:


> I think there are people who are hoping to make *biodiesel and/or alchohol fuel so they can keep driving*. That would be do-able, and as long as they have or can get spare parts and tires, they'd be good to go! With all the "Dead" vehicles around, there'd be a good chance of finding parts.
> 
> The rest of us will get in good shape walking or bicycling...


This. Buy a diesel and use cooking oil (cleaned by filter). It's not exactly clean burning but it'll get you about. Also use vehicles ONLY when need be.


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## lotsoflead

Hitch up old Babe and Jim, they'll find their own food and water.


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## JayJay

efbjr said:


> I found a good way to quickly cover windows and get a good air seal without resorting to nailing, stapling or taping the plastic to the window frames. I bought some bottles of rubber cement that is usually used for pasting photos into albums (LePage's, Sanford's and Elmer's are 3 well-known brands).
> 
> Using the brush that is attached to the bottle cap, I "painted" around the window frame a strip of cement about 1/2" wide. I let it dry for a minute or two until got slightly "tacky" and then took the plastic and stuck it to the glued surface, stretching it as I pressed it to the glued window frame. (BTW- you can buy the cheaper plastic sheets that usually come with cardboard strips and nails. Toss the cardboard and put the nails in your toolbox.)
> 
> As you seal the window, the plastic will start to bow inward slightly as the air from outside the house is blocked, showing that you have a good air seal.You will immediately feel the difference. I can usually do 2-3 windows with a pint of rubber cement.
> 
> In the spring, the plastic can be carefully peeled off the plastic, usually without ripping, and the cement can easily be rubbed off the window frame without causing damage to the paint.
> 
> I did the apartment windows of a friend like this. Eight windows took about 45 minutes. The wind hardly slowed down as it went through her apartment causing her to pay an enormous heating bill each month.  After I finished, the apartment got so warm that she turned down the heat from High to Low and left it there all winter and told me her heating bill dropped about 75%.


Good idea.. and yes, when the sun heats that air I have a balloon...and at night when cooling, I have the plastic sucking into the window sort of...a good seal is right...

One thing about this...every day my house seems to get warmer...I noticed the floors even getting warmer... I'm turning the thermostat down more and the heat isn't coming on as often...and no, it's not warmer...highs have been 20's and 30's and low's teens and 20's...I'm sure to not need a propane refill as quickly as before I covered the windows...I'm glad I covered my windows.


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## Tirediron

lotsoflead said:


> Hitch up old Babe and Jim, they'll find their own food and water.


Now there is an sensible answer:beercheer:


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## dawnwinds58

If you are using "Babe and Jim" to farm, they'll need more than forage to keep them going from sunrise to sunset, and that is what you do when you raise your own food. If you can get them to slow down to "planting" speed will be the question. Even some draft breeds aren't cut out for the "casual" meanderings of planting or tilling or the strength required to plow.

I have 4 horses. Two are riding horses, but can pull a two wheel cart; two are built to pull, stocky, but riding capable. None could handle the slow pace of a setter/transplanter. So the plan is now to find a couple of young steers and go for oxen. Oxen kept the Medieval farmer and village fed. They have a slow enough pace to walk beside, a 2-person transplanter is an easy pull, and you can keep them fat on lower quality feed that would starve a horse to death, AND feed them nutritious things a horse won't touch as a single stomached species. The topper is when they have seen their best days pass, they are still ground beef.

It's a "win-win" situation.


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## 41south

Quote {If you are using "Babe and Jim" to farm, they'll need more than forage to keep them going from sunrise to sunset, and that is what you do when you raise your own food. If you can get them to slow down to "planting" speed will be the question. Even some draft breeds aren't cut out for the "casual" meanderings of planting or tilling or the strength required to plow.}

Dawnwinds as a horse owner myself I agree with you, but I do have one horse that barely moves fast enough to plow with, big ole heavy drafty thing he is. And you are right about horses needing more than just forage as we both know. I heard a old timer tell a story about when he was young. 

This feller rode by his place on the way to the gristmill in early Spring {back when times were hard and feeds weren't available as today} with a sack of corn on his shoulder and tipped his hat to the ladies, and one of the ladies asked him, Roy why do you have that sack of corn on your shoulder? And he replied well Miss Mattie I am just trying to take as much weight up off this poor old mare as I can.


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## Tirediron

There is a lot of stuff people think they can just do because they read about it some where. Horse farming is a hard gig. :2thumb:


----------



## gypsysue

Tirediron said:


> There is a lot of stuff people think they can just do because they read about it some where. Horse farming is a hard gig. :2thumb:


Yeah, we used to have a draft horse. A Belgian mare. She ate 3 times as much as a saddle horse. My husband liked to ride her, though, and our youngest daughter had a little Arabian mare that she'd ride alongside him. That was a funny picture, that huge draft horse with feet like an elephant, and the dainty little mare!

I still wonder why people put so much effort, thought, and money into worrying about being able to drive anywhere when the majority of people won't have fuel or running vehicles. I hope those people armor their vehicles and are armed, because I wouldn't want to be one of the only few out there driving around amongst angry, hungry, car-deprived people! 

If things settled down and people were making alternative fuels and using or selling them, it might be safer to be out and about. But I pretty much plan to stick close to the homeplace if TSHTF. I have more important things to worry about than my car. I'll be happy if I manage to have enough food to keep me alive so I can sit on the porch swing and admire my parked car on the driveway! 

Maybe I can use it for a greenhouse? Or a chicken coop? :dunno:


----------



## HozayBuck

gypsysue said:


> That is absolutely the best and most sensible prep statement I have ever seen.


*I agree!! We and by We I mean "ME" will have to learn to live in the new world,and somebody earlier said something that just clicked... it's only been what???... 100 years since the car became a means to travel? when I was a kid we didn't have a car, small town , walk everywhere.. My Mom got her first car when I was 11 yo..... I was 20 yo before I owned my first car, so.. if the shtf and fuel is gone in a few years at most for most people .. it will be hardest on those of us who remember being able to go from coast to coast in a few days tops.. but to the ones growing up in the "New Age" not having a car will not be an issue.. a lot of my family are really only 60 years from using horses to get around , if fuel were gone in 20 years walking and riding horses would seem as normal as driving 2 blocks to the store is now.. some folks will be born and grow old never having been more then 100 miles from home... interesting to think about.. no fuels... no coffee!!!  no diet coke, no smokes, no condoms = big families!! lots of old trades needing to be relearned.. boot making, weaving.. man this list could go on forever.. what a wake up call!!.. *


----------



## nj_m715

There are alternatives to coffee. I never tried, but maybe it's time. Dandelions are just one replacement and they grow almost everywhere.

How to Make Roasted Dandelion Root Coffee | prodigalgardens.info


----------



## UncleJoe

I don't drink coffee but I did paste that article into a word document. If DW would ever run out of coffee and couldn't get more, I might be able to make her very happy.


----------



## efbjr

*Thermal mass...*



JayJay said:


> Good idea.. and yes, when the sun heats that air I have a balloon...and at night when cooling, I have the plastic sucking into the window sort of...a good seal is right...
> 
> One thing about this...every day my house seems to get warmer...I noticed the floors even getting warmer... I'm turning the thermostat down more and the heat isn't coming on as often...and no, it's not warmer...highs have been 20's and 30's and low's teens and 20's...I'm sure to not need a propane refill as quickly as before I covered the windows...I'm glad I covered my windows.


Most of the heat that would have been wasted to the outside through the leaky windows is trapped, causing the heat to be retained for a longer period in the thermal mass provided by the walls, floor, ceiling, etc. In the summer, if you leave the plastic on the windows, you'll have a real hothouse. 

Maybe this would be a quick way to construct a greenhouse?


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## dawnwinds58

Horse or mule or oxen farming is hard work, for the 2 legged and the 4 legged partner, but having a husband raised in the hills where his family is still plowing with mules does help somewhat. It isn't what I think we can do, it is what I know he's already done.


----------



## whisperingwinds

I have my land in Az. so now I need to put my mh there this summer.
Packed with my supplies and have the well drilled.

Next I plan to get solar, cause I have a generator now that could be useless 
if fuel is short.

I plan to use the mustang to get there, if shtf afterward.

Also, I have a electric moped to get around with solar charge once there.
Hey its only a start. 

Oh and protection of course. I will need it if the moped dont go fast enough.lol


----------



## JayJay

I think someone with a horse and trailor will begin circuiting like olden days..selling, bartering, trading.

It'll be the only way.


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## piglett

I think the people that havn't eaten in weeks will try to eat your horse & shoot you if needed. sad but true

the only way you will keep your stuff is to stay put & dig in

drive ....WHAT?? i don't think so the people who are walking mite just decide they want that car,truck,bike or whatever more than you do. don't go looking for trouble wait till it shows up on your doorstep 


piglett


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## Jimmy24

I only plan to use mine as a BOV...Bug Out Vehicle..that's it. I keep the tank full 90% of the time. It holds 19 gals and will only take 2 gals to get me to my retreat, if I have to leave my home. That IS where I will make my stand, whatever that could mean.

I do have gasoline saved up, that is treated. It seems to work well out to 18-20 months. Only have 50 gals saved up, but that will run my ATV and genset for the same length of time. Have been experimenting with the wood-gas, mainly for a genset. 

I have minor solar set up, that should last for a few yrs. From there who knows if the situation is that bad.

You can only plan and prep as best you can. There are no guarantees anyway. 

Doing nothing is not an option....

Jimmy


----------



## Meerkat

ed12371 said:


> I have brought a Toyota Hi lux 4x4 Sr5. I added a long range tank, which holds 128 litres and have had it converted to gas as well.
> 
> So multiply supplies of fuel. Personally, I think of the vehicle as a medium to get my family from where I am now to the safest place I would need to be.
> 
> Also, to go back into a (still is/used to be) highly populated area to get supplies (if necessary), others wise it will just sit at the camp site.
> 
> If you did have to move around vast distances then there are plenty of fuel stations (occupied or unoccupied?) floating around.
> 
> After that if fuel runs out and cannot be re-supplied, then the Shit has truly HTF and fuel will obsolete.
> 
> I think I like the horse idea, not sure where I'd get one :scratch.


 Getting a horse should be easy.May people are giving them away to good homes or selling at a good price.They can't afford to feed them and this will get worse because of the economy,weather and loss of homes.


----------



## Meerkat

piglett said:


> I think the people that havn't eaten in weeks will try to eat your horse & shoot you if needed. sad but true
> 
> the only way you will keep your stuff is to stay put & dig in
> 
> drive ....WHAT?? i don't think so the people who are walking mite just decide they want that car,truck,bike or whatever more than you do. don't go looking for trouble wait till it shows up on your doorstep
> 
> piglett


 Exactly what I was thinking.In a bad time,it will be like a turkey shoot for anyone riding.

If it were me I'd travel by bike or mule.And only at night and not on busy highways.of course that is if we were young,which we are'nt so we will have to stay put and face the sitation head on.


----------



## Jimmy24

gypsysue said:


> That is absolutely the best and most sensible prep statement I have ever seen.


I agree. been taking some time to read thru this thread. Lots of ideas about keeping things going the way they are....

But in reality things will be very different. If it's a short term issue then things may return to normal. But if it is, in fact, a TEOTWAWKI era then it will be a new world and we will have to work within it. I feel certain there will be new and inventive people trying new things and it will be a long row to hoe for a while, but the human spirt will carry on I think. Heck we actually figure out how not to destroy mother earth in the process....

Just some radom thoughts....

Jimmy


----------



## Meerkat

UncleJoe said:


> *What are you guys gonna do about fueling these vehicles?*
> 
> We have enough fuel stored, that if used conservatively, could last us about 2 years but that fuel is meant for running the equipment used for food production. This would mean not running the vehicles unless absolutely necessary. For everyday travel, if there would be such a thing, we have the horses, donkeys and bicycles.


 Donkeys would be my choice ,they don't eat much,can survive a long time without water and will not run off like a horse will.I do love the beautiful horse though,but not for roughing it.They are strong and pack well.

A little buckboard or something like the amish drive.A lihtweight bike would help too.


----------



## piglett

Meerkat said:


> Donkeys would be my choice ,they don't eat much,can survive a long time without water and will not run off like a horse will.I do love the beautiful horse though,but not for roughing it.They are strong and pack well.
> 
> A little buckboard or something like the amish drive.A lihtweight bike would help too.


and if things get rough .....donkey burgers

piglett


----------



## Meerkat

piglett said:


> and if things get rough .....donkey burgers
> 
> piglett


 I don't know about that,guess so but i really loved my Rosie.She was a trip.Loved our horse too but he ate like a horse and had to have shots.If he spooked he'd head for the hills,but the donk would head for me which could be freightening at times.Nothing get your attention like a 500lb. donk coming at you full speed.Good they can stop on a dime.


----------



## piglett

Meerkat said:


> I don't know about that,guess so but i really loved my Rosie.She was a trip.Loved our horse too but he ate like a horse and had to have shots.If he spooked he'd head for the hills,but the donk would head for me which could be freightening at times.Nothing get your attention like a 500lb. donk coming at you full speed.Good they can stop on a dime.


my understanding is that donkeys can be quite usefull in warding off predators.there have been coyotes found with broken jaws that ended up starving from not being able to eat. so i guess if you have animals out grazing get your "@ss" out there & leave it there so it can defend the rest of your livestock from critters with big hungry teeth.

i know around here we now have mountain lions which we never had in the past (not sure how donkey would do up against a big cat). guys with game cameras are starting to get pictures of them & i myself saw a kitten out behind my house. i figured mama was close by so i went back in the house before i got mistaken for a chew toy 

i also know donkeys are strong (good for plowing) & will eat some things that other animals will turn down so i guess i myself would eat the last donkey just before i chowed down on my wife's house cat. :kiss:

piglett


----------



## Kursac

JayJay said:


> I think someone with a horse and trailor will begin circuiting like olden days..selling, bartering, trading.
> 
> It'll be the only way.


I read that book too


----------



## weedygarden

NaeKid said:


> The changes could become a good thing, but, people will need to be willing to work within the new world instead of trying to hold onto the old one that has passed.


I don't know. I heard that one of the big goals for NWO is to reduce the population in the US by 250,000,000. I don't know about the rest of the world. My understanding is that older people, welfare types, dependant types will be on the top of the hit list. Also, resistant types, protesters, trouble makers will be eliminated.

All food, property, guns and ammo, fuel, transportation will be confiscated. I think that if you think you need fuel and that you will be keeping up with the life you have now, it isn't going to be like that. I think if you are out driving around you are asking for trouble--gangs, attackers, protesters will not rein it in. Look at how they act if their team wins now, if they think they are not going to get something that is being handed out, etc.

But, if you do store fuel, use a preserver in it. My gas stations stock it, and yours probably do also. I keep a gas can for the lawn mower and always put a fuel additive to keep down on the varnish in the carburator. This is especially important when keeping fuel over the winter. If you don't add it to the lawn mower fuel and winter comes and goes, you will have a hard time starting the mower. I did that once and learned from that.

My advice is always to stay home, lay low, keep it under the radar. My take is similar to when we have a storm, such as several inches of snow, to stay home, stay put. I am usually prepared and have no need to go anywhere. I know people who GO when there is anything going on. They are drawn to it, have to be in it, always have a reason to GO. It is almost like the people who chase fire trucks and ambulances.

I think that if you stay home, you will be safer.


----------



## piglett

weedygarden said:


> I don't know. I heard that one of the big goals for NWO is to reduce the population in the US by 250,000,000. I don't know about the rest of the world. My understanding is that older people, welfare types, dependant types will be on the top of the hit list. Also, resistant types, protesters, trouble makers will be eliminated.
> 
> All food, property, guns and ammo, fuel, transportation will be confiscated. I think that if you think you need fuel and that you will be keeping up with the life you have now, it isn't going to be like that. I think if you are out driving around you are asking for trouble--gangs, attackers, protesters will not rein it in. Look at how they act if their team wins now, if they think they are not going to get something that is being handed out, etc.
> 
> But, if you do store fuel, use a preserver in it. My gas stations stock it, and yours probably do also. I keep a gas can for the lawn mower and always put a fuel additive to keep down on the varnish in the carburator. This is especially important when keeping fuel over the winter. If you don't add it to the lawn mower fuel and winter comes and goes, you will have a hard time starting the mower. I did that once and learned from that.
> 
> My advice is always to stay home, lay low, keep it under the radar. My take is similar to when we have a storm, such as several inches of snow, to stay home, stay put. I am usually prepared and have no need to go anywhere. I know people who GO when there is anything going on. They are drawn to it, have to be in it, always have a reason to GO. It is almost like the people who chase fire trucks and ambulances.
> 
> I think that if you stay home, you will be safer.


You make a great point, who are these people that really think the would be just fine out riding around in there high dollar suv when the sh*t hits the fan 
HELLO wake up & shake it off people, if the SHTF the last thing you want to do is be out driving. lay low , don't be a target, oh & did i say lay low???

piglett


----------



## Clarice

I agree with weedy & piglett. If you do not want harm to come to you stay out of harms way. By that I mean stay home, don't make it obvious that you have prepared. Don't mow the grass, etc. If you look like you are doing okay you are sure to be a target.


----------



## Kursac

I'm just gona go to the gas station


----------



## Tribal Warlord Thug

The_Blob said:


> have been working with this for a few years now...
> 
> http://www.esrla.com/pdf/tallow.pdf
> 
> you can puncture a berry & light the oil that oozes out


the one problem with non-native species....

Chinese tallowtree, Triadica sebifera (Euphorbiales: Euphorbiaceae) 
:beercheer:


----------



## weedygarden

UncleJoe said:


> Craigslist?
> 
> On our local craigslist, people are practically giving their horses away because that can't afford to keep them anymore. If we had more space we would probably get a few more.


People ARE giving away their horses on our craigslist. This week there was one party giving away a few. One was little over a year, another 5 years old. If you have horses and can't even sell them, it is a statement about the economy.


----------



## weedygarden

I like to read and participate in forums like this because it keeps me aware, keeps me thinking of what I haven't already thought of to be prepared, goods and plans.

I don't have all the anwers, and I am so far from being as prepared as I think any of us needs to be. Sometimes when I think about it, I could hyperventilate. But I am so much more prepared than so many others that I know. If people haven't even thought about preparing, they can just run around in the streets screaming hysterically until someone just takes them out. 

The idea of having fuel is a conundrum. If you have fuel, you will be out, making yourself a target. You might be looking for some cooking oil or whatever item you have run out of. But you will probably have so much more than the other moral-less and hysterical mobs you will see. People who are 3 days hungry with the sense that there is no food coming will not be thinking morally. 

If you have fuel, you might be at home, running your generator or something that will draw attention from the roving gangs.

I think of baking a loaf of bread and how good it smells. It could draw others. 

BOV--I often see people posting about them. If you do not have a solid place to go that you can get to in a reasonable time, you won't make it. You will just be out there asking for trouble, and it will find you.

I keep posting about this. I don't mean to sound so pessimistic, but I think those who make it will few and far between and by the grace of God. I think it behooves us to keep challenging each other and our ideas. 

Getting off the soap box now. :surrender:


----------



## VUnder

If you live in a populated area, have your old armored BOV at a storage facility on the side of town that your BOL is. Mine will have armor plate and solid tires so I can be sure to get where I am going. Remember, if something disables the newer vehicles, the po po cars won't run either. I ain't stoppin for nobody till I get whur I'm a goin.


----------



## BillS

I expect that after the collapse I won't be driving anymore. I expect to stay home and in the house 99% of the time. About the only time I expect to go outside will be at night to dump sewage in a wooded area about 100 yards from my home. I expect to be wearing night vision goggles and have a shotgun in one hand and the five gallon bucket in the other.

One issue to consider is how much to drive during the time right before the collapse. What if we have hyperinflation and gas is $100 a gallon? Do you want to be seen driving all over the place when no one else can go anywhere? Is it safe for people to think you have a lot of money at home? If we assume that an ounce of gold will still buy 400 gallons of gas regardless of how expensive gas gets, that would mean one ounce of gold would be worth about $40,000 when one gallon of gas costs $100.


----------



## VUnder

I imagine that when the collapse happens, you will have a few hours before all the stranded and unprepared people figure out what has happened. That is plenty of time to get away from a populated area to a more rural environment. Carry a 100 gal tank in your BOV and keep it full. That and the gas in your tank should easily get you over a 1000 miles even in a pulp wood truck.


----------



## ricepaddydaddy

Tirediron said:


> There is a lot of stuff people think they can just do because they read about it some where. Horse farming is a hard gig. :2thumb:


Just keeping horses fed and healthy is more work than any novice can realize.
We have three.


----------



## becky3086

I agree, won't be driving. Actually, I don't expect that we will need to. Have two neighbors with horses though, if they aren't needed for food perhaps we will use them for transportation.


----------



## piglett

becky3086 said:


> I agree, won't be driving. Actually, I don't expect that we will need to. Have two neighbors with horses though, if they aren't needed for food perhaps we will use them for transportation.


i hope they are good STRONG horses because they will be needed for plowing

piglett


----------



## piglett

ricepaddydaddy said:


> Just keeping horses fed and healthy is more work than any novice can realize.
> We have three.


i'm guessing making sure they have enough & the rite things to eat will be really tough. i hope my 62 'diesel Farmall still runs 
it will run all day on about 5 gal. of fuel.

piglett


----------



## Tirediron

The down side of running engines after a shtf would be the attention factor. the other side of the coin is the fantasy that anybody can learn horse farming in 15 minutes, having maybe petted a calm horse. A working horse full of adrenaline and that of it's team mate is a whole different picture. the additional problem that appears to be ignored is horse injury, My brothers light team has been out of action almost all of this growing season, first from a bruised foot and just when he was about healed up the same horse cut his leg. My brother has options ,use his heavy team or one of his tractors, and he basicly lives the selfsufficient live style all the time because he wants to not because he has to. what would transpire if the same injury hit a "rookie's" only team after "the fall"???


----------



## piglett

Tirediron said:


> The down side of running engines after a shtf would be the attention factor. the other side of the coin is the fantasy that anybody can learn horse farming in 15 minutes, having maybe petted a calm horse. A working horse full of adrenaline and that of it's team mate is a whole different picture. the additional problem that appears to be ignored is horse injury, My brothers light team has been out of action almost all of this growing season, first from a bruised foot and just when he was about healed up the same horse cut his leg. My brother has options ,use his heavy team or one of his tractors, and he basicly lives the selfsufficient live style all the time because he wants to not because he has to. what would transpire if the same injury hit a "rookie's" only team after "the fall"???


better have a smaller 1 horse plow ready or get ready to do LOTS of hand work :dunno:

piglett


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## VUnder

One horse is fine for a flat breaker. Better go find you a horse powered disc, the kind that somebody rides on. The disc is what you are going to miss. Trying to garden over ground that has just been flat broke only is kinda tough. A single horse planter would be a nice find too. Just saw one for sale the other day. Just think, you are going to be a sod buster.


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## kejmack

VUnder said:


> One horse is fine for a flat breaker. Better go find you a horse powered disc, the kind that somebody rides on. The disc is what you are going to miss. Trying to garden over ground that has just been flat broke only is kinda tough. A single horse planter would be a nice find too. Just saw one for sale the other day. Just think, you are going to be a sod buster.


OR, you could just use raised beds like we do.


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## VUnder

I think he was talking more large scale. Raised bed are great because you get a lot more production out of said amount of land. Plus, it seems easier to take care of. I remember my Papaw plowing with a horse when I was little. He had a tractor, but it was hand crank, and only had some horse plows to use with it, so he just used the horse. I remember when I was older and he hauled off all the old harness things. He got by with a tiller after that. An old man that lived up the road told me that him and his dad plowed with the same mule for 46 years. I have heard of them living that long.


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## LincTex

VUnder said:


> Remember, if something disables the newer vehicles, the po po cars won't run either. I ain't stoppin for nobody till I get whur I'm a goin.


I had a "cold-war" era M38A1 that was EMP proof... all of the electical systems wiring was run with braided shielded wire. I could do something similar with any vehicle, but it would be a lot of work. The military vehicles are set up this way, so they will be seen driving around still.

I have an older mechanical-only Cummins diesel in my F-250. It needs zero electricity to run as long as I can coast it down a hill and pop the clutch.



ricepaddydaddy said:


> Just keeping horses fed and healthy is more work than any novice can realize.


TRUE!!!! Cheap to get, but EXPENSIVE to keep!


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## azurevirus

*gas guzzlers*

I was wondering the same thing..I know of three offroad chevys in town for sale all under 3k and they are built for serious off road..two suburbans and a shotbox chevy ..engines range from 350-454..I love these jacked up big tired things but at todays prices they would be very expensive to drive (Im guessing thats why they are for sale)..they are all older vehicles and probably decked out when gas was 2 bucks a gal and I imagine expensive to drive even then...I kick myself for selling my 4wd hardbody with topper as it was underpowered it still would go anywhere with its short wheelbase and even with the big tires/wheels it still was an everyday driver and would scoot down the hwy at the 65 mph limit easily..I seriously miss that truck


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## purecaffeine

I just have 2½ gallons of petrol with some fuel stabiliser in it sitting there just so we can get out of town if for some reason we've been neglectful and let the car run down to empty when SHTF. That'll get us 100km (or more, with our Subaru Impreza wagon) which is enough to get us out of dodge but I have no plans for sustaining a vehicle longer than that. None of the most likely disaster scenarios I'm preparing for require it.


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## LincTex

purecaffeine said:


> That'll get us 100km (or more, with our Subaru Impreza wagon).


You must not live in any major city, then.

You can only be assuming at this point that there will be no traffic, with wide open roads and no other cars in sight. Yes, 2 1/2 gallons should be enough.

But what if your "chosen path" is blocked with other vehicles, now void of petrol? You must go around. Deduct 1 gallon.

Now that second path out of the city is also blocked, and you must go around. Deduct another gallon...


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## LincTex

I just googled "traffic out of Houston Rita":


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## Redtail

Throttle Body Assemblies for Gasoline to Propane Conversion

This sort of conversion kit is available in dozens of different form factors from dozens of manufacturers, some of the fancier ones even capable of going at the flip of a switch from LP/LNG/propane to gasoline, and one set up properly will run on gasoline *or* pure alcohol with a change in jetting.

LP stores for a *long* time but burns so efficiently that you can get a V8 engine that idles at 950RPM to turn over stably at 350-400.

WIth these big vehicles, I'm hoping that folks are planning on multiple hangup points, as it's nigh impossible to crows-flight it from anywhere to anywhere without having to pass directly through a major thoroughfare that will likely be completely clogged, and have to go WAY out of the way to hit a suitable accessway around, which may or may not be there.

TO me, the real emergency vehicle is a tracker bike with an expanded tank and the nastiest tires I can get on it. A good solid frame with reinforced shocks and strut bracing, comfortable seat and grips, and bootlegger lights. 
Good exhaust silencers are a must, and top speed is not as critical as available torque.

THe lighter, the better; if you can conceivably drive or maneuver the thing *over* a parked car with the help of one other person or the bike itself, then you've got the right idea.

A bicycle is a good option if you don't have to move too fast, but where I'm at, I've got lots and lots of open ground and aggressive terrain to cover, living in the part of Illinois that's close enough to the rivers to have topography, but still full of cornfields.

There are very few specific instances I can think of where I'd be inclined to bring along my Tempest in the case of a bugout. Zombies *might* be a reason, as the Tempest can be up-armored with steel screen over the windows and offers a safe and stable retreat with enough room to seat four armored and armed adults. But it only gets 22MPG and it's not exactly capable off-road.

The biggest advantage I can see to using a vehicle for transport is speed and capacity.

Bicycles are very versatile, but they offer only a minimal enhancement in carrying capacity and speed over on-foot.

THat being said, they're simple and require no fuel.

WIth the bike, I'd be using it as a daily-driver, given fuel costs enough as it is. I like to keep my tank full or close to full for this sort of reason.


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## weedygarden

Diego2112 said:


> I dont trust my car to get me from point A to point B NOW, let alone when the :SHTF:!
> 
> My plan is to get as far as I can by car (run it dry, syphon from dead cars, keep running till I cant run it no more), then ditch it, and set the :ignore: on FIRE 2thumb, continue on on foot/bike.


There is something I don't understand. Why set it on fire?

I used to have a neighbor who would destroy furniture, etc. when he was done with it and putting it in or by the dumpster. I saw him destroy a dining room set, furniture, etc.

In a post SHTF time, you might not have any more need of it, but maybe someone else could use it. If you were abandoning it, does it matter to you? An abandoned vehicle might provide shelter for a family for a while, or parts that someone might need.

I know I am strange and weird. When I have an empty cracker or cereal box or something like that, as I am flattening it and putting it in the recycling bin, I wonder if in a couple years today's trash would be a treasure. All those grocery store plastic bags? They can be used instead of gloves, or more. But who wants to keep all that stuff? And where?


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## weedygarden

*Wood gassifier?*

I wonder if anyone has heard of these, or if anyone has one?

Wood gas generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a wood gassifier yahoo group.


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## stayingthegame

weedygarden said:


> There is something I don't understand. Why set it on fire?
> 
> I used to have a neighbor who would destroy furniture, etc. when he was done with it and putting it in or by the dumpster. I saw him destroy a dining room set, furniture, etc.
> 
> In a post SHTF time, you might not have any more need of it, but maybe someone else could use it. If you were abandoning it, does it matter to you? An abandoned vehicle might provide shelter for a family for a while, or parts that someone might need.
> 
> I know I am strange and weird. When I have an empty cracker or cereal box or something like that, as I am flattening it and putting it in the recycling bin, I wonder if in a couple years today's trash would be a treasure. All those grocery store plastic bags? They can be used instead of gloves, or more. But who wants to keep all that stuff? And where?


one man's trash is another man's treasure. 
put the paper boxes in your compost pile (to the side) and let them break down.


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