# Ever stand guard duty?



## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I just read in an older thread that one condition a prepper had for taking in others was that they also stand guard duty. Years back a bunch of us met together once a year to learn and practice survival skills. The first year we set out sentries to stand guard at night just as we would in a SHTF situatiion. What an eye opener! Most complained that their two-hour watch was too long, they were cold, they were scared, they were sleepy, they were ...? I think you get the point! Any who smoked couldn't do without lighting up on their two hour shift even though they'd been briefed on how far you can see and smell a cig. at night. They talked and joked and made enough noise to wake the dead when on shift and when changing shifts. Some abandoned their posts due to boredom. The next night they shelved the idea of standing guard.

Ragnor Benson mentioned in one of his books that the only reliable people he found to stand guard at night were widows who'd lost spouses and children to war. The only people we had that stood watch reliably (with the exception of one person) were veterans and some of them couldn't resist smoking on watch. It was a frustrating situation and I learned right away who I'd want watching my back while I slept.

If you haven't stood guard at night, try it. If a person wants to join my group I want to see them on post at night. No other thing on those campouts separated those who were mostly talk from those who were serious about survival as quickly as standing one, two hour, watch in the woods at night. If they do well the first night keep it up for a week. By the end of the week you'll know who you can trust with your life and who you can't.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

Sign me up! I can and do do it! My part time job is working either a midnight 12 hour shift or 5 hour 2am- 7am as a night time security guard at a trucking company. It is dark and NO ONE is around! All by myself. I have to do a round around the lot at least twice an hour and sometimes the light goes out so it is DARK. I have to clock in every half an hour so that the boss knows that I have not fallen asleep. He came in and caught one of the men sleeping on his shift! 
2 hours would be a cake walk...and having someone with me...yep, even easier! My mom has been doing this for over three years! She gets a 7 hour break after her 12 hour night shift and then does an 8 hour day shift. Over the long holidays we both pulled 12 hour shifts opposite each other for 3-4 days at a time.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

It would be easy for some people to be that way during a practice exercise when there isn't a real emergency, but I wonder how many of them would be sleeping peacefully in a societal collapse once the reality of how bad things are sinks in and once they realize how critical it is to their survival to have someone on guard at night. 

Another group of people that would make good candidates for night watchmen are people that are naturally accustomed to being up at night. For over a decade I've had jobs working mostly third shift hours, with a few on second shift. The two temporary jobs I did working first shift hours only lasted for a few months and it was hell trying to get used to staying awake during the day and sleeping at night. Some people just function better at night where others do better during the day.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

Pulled lots of guard duty in the USMC. Dedicated duty for a month (it was either that or the mess hall...). Almost shot someone that tried to "test me" when he took it a bit too far and didn't reply to my challenges.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Elinor0987 said:


> It would be easy for some people to be that way during a practice exercise when there isn't a real emergency, but I wonder how many of them would be sleeping peacefully in a societal collapse once the reality of how bad things are sinks in and once they realize how critical it is to their survival to have someone on guard at night.
> 
> Another group of people that would make good candidates for night watchmen are people that are naturally accustomed to being up at night. For over a decade I've had jobs working mostly working third shift hours, with a few on second shift. The two temporary jobs I did working first shift hours only lasted for a few months and it was hell trying to get used to staying awake during the day and sleeping at night. Some people just function better at night where others do better during the day.


Part of the orientation for guard duty was giving examples of North Korean snipers and sappers taking out sentries who smoked. It's unreal how far away a sniper can be see a smoker well enough to shoot them dead on a dark night. These people liked to think of themselves as survivalists but if they couldn't even "pretend" it was the real thing for two hours would you want them on your team?

The reason for rehearsing these things is to learn how to do it right. It's a time to "do" then evaluate the results, make changes, and do it all over again until you get it right. In a true SHTF situation, by the time school is over the student (and those who depended upon them), might be dead. In real surrvival situations grading is not done on the "scale." It's pass or fail. And the consequences for failure are generally pretty dismal. If they can't prove their reliability in good times why would anyone want to trust them when times are bad?


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

bczoom said:


> Pulled lots of guard duty in the USMC. Dedicated duty for a month (it was either that or the mess hall...). Almost shot someone that tried to "test me" when he took it a bit too far and didn't reply to my challenges.


the same thing happened to a friend in the Army, at the time I couldn't believe that anyone in the military would be so stupid, disrespectful, and undisciplined to pull such a stunt...


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

PamsPride said:


> Sign me up! I can and do do it! My part time job is working either a midnight 12 hour shift or 5 hour 2am- 7am as a night time security guard at a trucking company. It is dark and NO ONE is around! All by myself. I have to do a round around the lot at least twice an hour and sometimes the light goes out so it is DARK. I have to clock in every half an hour so that the boss knows that I have not fallen asleep. He came in and caught one of the men sleeping on his shift!
> 2 hours would be a cake walk...and having someone with me...yep, even easier! My mom has been doing this for over three years! She gets a 7 hour break after her 12 hour night shift and then does an 8 hour day shift. Over the long holidays we both pulled 12 hour shifts opposite each other for 3-4 days at a time.


I bet you could too. We did the two person thing because so many were afraid of the night. The bad thing about two people on an LP or OP is chit-chat. Few people can sit with someone else for two hours without talking. And sound carries quite well at night.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

bczoom said:


> Pulled lots of guard duty in the USMC. Dedicated duty for a month (it was either that or the mess hall...). Almost shot someone that tried to "test me" when he took it a bit too far and didn't reply to my challenges.


Know what you mean here! I pulled guard duty three times and mess duty twice. Only they didn't give us a choice. We'd often have the OD try to slip through and if he didn't identify himself properly and you did nothing about it he would make you very, very, sorry.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> the same thing happened to a friend in the Army, at the time I couldn't believe that anyone in the military would be so stupid, disrespectful, and undisciplined to pull such a stunt...


Amazing how many times you find "stupid, disprespectful and undisciplined" in people who should know better! These are the types that get their buddies killed in combat.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> If they can't prove their reliability in good times why would anyone want to trust them when times are bad?


That's a good point. I would like to be optimistic and think people will take the security aspect of their survival seriously. After giving it some more thought, the odds are a lot of the people that aren't planning for these things beforehand and have very little self discipline will make themselves a target of criminal acts. I still don't think they will be sleeping well once the panic sets in.


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> I bet you could too. We did the two person thing because so many were afraid of the night. The bad thing about two people on an LP or OP is chit-chat. Few people can sit with someone else for two hours without talking. And sound carries quite well at night.


Yeah, I better pull a two hour shift by myself! I am a talker!! :ignore: LOL! I can easily entertain myself by just talking in my OWN head for two hours!  My mom is not a talker but I am sure she could easily pull a two hour shift by herself as well. Or she would pull a shift with me and make me be quiet!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I've spent more time than that sitting alone on a deer stand!


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## Kai22 (Apr 30, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> I've spent more time than that sitting alone on a deer stand!


and I have in a bush, waiting for turkeys to walk by....

But really, good post. Eye opening for sure. I was just saying to DH today, when SHTF, it will be exhausting, standing guard all the time. 
I realized, I have absolutely no idea how to do guard duty.


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

*Me too....*



gypsysue said:


> I've spent more time than that sitting alone on a deer stand!


I've spent much more time than that waiting for my daughter to get out of the bathroom!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> I've spent much more time than that waiting for my daughter to get out of the bathroom!


:lolsmash: You're lucky I set my glass down before reading that!


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Kai22 said:


> and I have in a bush, waiting for turkeys to walk by....
> 
> But really, good post. Eye opening for sure. I was just saying to DH today, when SHTF, it will be exhausting, standing guard all the time.
> I realized, I have absolutely no idea how to do guard duty.


In this case we had LP's (listening posts) set up around the perimeter of the camp, about 100 yards out. All were camo'd. All that was expected was to go and come silently, be invisible while on post (no talking, smoking, or movement unless necessary), listen and report any suspicious activity, check in by radio every 30 minutes, and stay on your post until your relief shows up. Shouldn't have been a big deal but it was. It was very surprising to see so many grown men and women who were afraid to go out alone in the night.


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## TrackerRat (Mar 24, 2011)

Yup, in the Marines I stood lots of guard duty. It was part of your duty to keep your brothers safe. Light and noise discipline applied. Many cold lonely nights but I never was tired. Just got to stand up and play some tunes in your head


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## pmabma (Dec 4, 2008)

We did this Mothers day week-end, 3 of us every 2 hrs, one was in a camo tree stand to watch the road , we have a long drive to our house, then one in front and one in back,checked in about every 30 minutes with radio, worked out ok with us, but some of the adults in our group I would not trust to keep watch, to whinny, lol it,s the daughter-in-laws,they will never make it without help. Got my work cut out for me.nutsy girls:nutson,t know what my sons see in them got to be covered up. Anyway it was a great Mothers Day present. A week-end practice if shtf. The camo tree stand way up in woods worked well, with night vision to watch.It was far enough to see and still have time to come down if someone came up the drive.


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## catsraven (Jan 25, 2010)

I have waited hours in trees and on the ground for deer. All I have to do is check in every 30 min and watch? Not talk or smoke for two hours? Peace of cake.

I did security work in my younger years. 10 hour shifts, 10 pm to 8 am by my self.


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

No guard duty here... no human error allowed, like falling asleep, etc.

1.) 7' high electric fence around compound - (If it is cut, an alarm goes off).

2.) Perimeter alarms - any motion (including wildlife) sets an alarm off.

3.) My very alert German Shepherd, sleeps on top of the bunker where he can listen with his sharp ears and smell with his fantastic nose. If it is human out there, he's trained to push an alarm button! (He will be inside with us in an ABC scenario).

4.) Furuno Radar on top of the bunker (see white radar dome on top of the armored gun turret) - picks up any movement 360 degrees around the compound. I programmed in all fixed objects to appear on the screen, anything else will stick out like a sore thumb, especially if it moves - it's dead!

That turret is also equipped with 2 day/night vision closed-circuit scopes mounted on 2 AK's with 100 round drum mags that are joystick controlled from laptops inside the bunker. There's a ladder inside up to the armored turret for loading and maintenance.

Yeah, that's right - I spent a LOT of time and $$ on security... it will pay WTSHTF...


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

BasecampUSA said:


> No guard duty here... no human error allowed, like falling asleep, etc.
> 
> 1.) 7' high electric fence around compound - (If it is cut, an alarm goes off).
> 
> ...


the dog is probably the most integral part of that setup 

soo... basically, just drive my D-7 up with the blade raised in front of the radiator & cab until I hit the door & then thermite the hinges off? :lolsmash:

jk basey I'd LOVE to see the bunker in person some day


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

from my *limited* personal experience, I can tell you that you can't hardly go 10 feet in the woods (to me anything smaller than 1/2 a state is just 'the woods'  ) without something hissing, croaking, or farting at you... but I guess as 'preppers' that 1% is what we're about anyway


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

16 days in a row after Katrina. Nuff said.

Jimmy


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> soo... basically, just drive my D-7 up with the blade raised in front of the radiator & cab until I hit the door & then thermite the hinges off? :lolsmash:


Heh... good luck 

- There's a 16' wide by 8' deep moat all around it... the Jeep is sitting on a 7' wide "draw bridge" just stout enough to hold it or my garden tractor, no more.

Thermite won't help... double doors, one of them is 1 1/4" chrome/moly/vanadium armor steel. My .50 BMG just bounces AP off it like airsoft bounces off a windshield.

Better bring a tank... :2thumb:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

BasecampUSA said:


> No guard duty here... no human error allowed, like falling asleep, etc.
> 
> Yeah, that's right - I spent a LOT of time and $$ on security... it will pay WTSHTF...


I like your set-up so don't take this as criticism. One of the first things we were taught in the USMC is that any fixed position can be taken if you want to pay the price. That's been proven true in every war. The dozer idea by The Blob is one way although some strategically placed mines could derail that plan, but then mines can be dangerous to you too.

The greatest weakness I see in your set-up is mortars. They can be made very easily and fired with blackpowder. Make some shaped charges and the bunker will be dismantled one hit at a time. Fire them from earthen cover and you're safe from retaliation. If the opposing force can keep the personel pinned inside the bunker it will just be a matter of time (short - 24 hours or less) before you're flushed out or killed.

Bunkers are usually the last stand you'll ever take. Lose your mobility and you'll lose the war. If the op. force is smart and determined it wouldn't require a lot of technology or many people to reduce a bunker to rubble. The extent of your defenses advertises that you have something worth going after.

With a set-up like yours I'd have sentries out a ways and send out scouts to keep watch for threats and handle them before they get close enough to imprison you in your bunker.

Just something to think about.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

BasecampUSA said:


> Heh... good luck
> 
> - There's a 16' wide by 8' deep moat all around it... the Jeep is sitting on a 7' wide "draw bridge" just stout enough to hold it or my garden tractor, no more.
> 
> ...


Use the dozer to fill in the moat?


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Jimmy24 said:


> 16 days in a row after Katrina. Nuff said.
> 
> Jimmy


Without a doubt!


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## PamsPride (Dec 21, 2010)

BaseCamp, your set up is awesome! They...whoever 'they' are..are going to go after easier targets before they ever go after you. By the time they decide to challenge you a lot of their fire power will probably already be used up.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

PamsPride said:


> BaseCamp, your set up is awesome! They...whoever 'they' are..are going to go after easier targets before they ever go after you. By the time they decide to challenge you a lot of their fire power will probably already be used up.


BaseCamp does indeed have an awesome set-up. My wife and I were discussing the issue of who we might someday have to defend against. I held your opinion but she took the appraoch that by the time "they" got to our remote location they would be battle hardened, very aggressive, well equipped and above all, determined adversaries. While we may not agree I cannot discount her opinion because she might be correct. Therefore our defense planning includes tactics for dealing with people like that. If a group like that is encountered you do not want to be pinned down. Once you stop moving you're going to be flanked and once you're flanked your time is limited and the clock is ticking.

Hardened retreats work only as long as the OpFor is disorganized and poorly armed. Any bunker needs to have escape options unless you've just decided to make your last stand there. At that point the only option is to make any opposing force pay dearly for their victory. Always keep the fighting as far away from "home" as you can. Don't appear to have enough to make you worth coming for.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

To me, a shelter would idealy have two means of escape. Probably a main door and an escape tunnel. I get claustrophobic in closed in places, and I could deal with it better if I knew there was another way out. 

Meanwhile, I'll volunteer for all the guard duty and patrol I can, just to be outside as long as possible, other than in the case of a nuclear event.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

In a SHTF world-only one dog is kinda not gonna cut it... I mean even noah had two of everything in his ark... What happens when poor puppy passes?


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## goodoleboy8205 (Mar 25, 2011)

ive stood guard duty. A good defense is to change the defense after dark unnoticed. when i had someone come in to test me they walked into cassitine wire.( i moved the wire) it took two hours to cut him out of it and multipul stiches. dont come in to my OP unannounced. I agree with the others a fixed position is a waste of time as history has showed us. Rule of thumb for a good defensive position is to change them around regularly. If you keep them the same all it takes is for an observer to watch your position and learn your weaknesses.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Afraid of*

Afraid of going to sleep on guard duty ?

Run some monofiliment fishing line around your perimitor and attach it to an empty can of water where it will dupm on you from above your position. It will wake you up and pizz you off!


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

While on guard duty in Alaska at an ammo bunker a second Lt. tried to sneek up on me by parking his jeep half a mile away.....only thing is that I could hear everything for three miles in the middle of nowhere in the middle of winter........well, let me put it this way, he will never do it again.


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## reliable (Oct 30, 2008)

And there's the guy who says "If this were for real, I'd stay awake." The same dipsticks who fell asleep on guard in training, fell asleep on guard in nam/iraq. Saw it too many times. Take care. Larry


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I really don't care for the bunker idea , once your inside the Zombies own the area,cameras can be taken out with well placed shots etc etc... I remember watching the TV mini series "Masada" it was an eye opener.. if they want in bad enough they will get in. But we are talking about fighting against MZBG's not military units with all the power that would bring ...hopefully.

I believe it's better the meet them away from the homestead , gorilla style.. fire one good shot and fade away , you can get enough of them that moving on is their best choice , "Charley" proved that time and again..

I'm not interested in getting involved in an "Alamo" fight, even as a chile I read of the Alamo and said to myself...I wouldn't have stayed pined up in there.. booby traps are also a good way to defend your area...

I prefer good dogs to people as guards , witness myself, since Molly the duck killer came to live with me I sleep better then I ever have, no more waking up 20 times a night, she lets me know if anything moves ... even walking she will alert to things I can't see or hear... and just watching her body language tells me pretty much if it's something she is Leary of... and there are some very good breeds out there..

But lets face it, one person armed with a good rifle can stand off and reduce your force one at a time.. best have a plan to go out and track them down... of course a place with enough people to work, guard,etc would be bypassed by most any but the largest band of BG's.. I like the small community idea over the bunker idea.. *


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

I like guards and dogs. Dogs often bark at everything. They need someone to follow-up in case it's a deer, coyote or whatever that set them off. 

But dogs are not infallable. Quite often when I come home from hunting or roaming I'll see how close I can get before the dog spots me. I've been within ten feet many times before the dog ever knew it. I take my shoes off and stay down wind. Move ony when the breeze is moving everything else. ... It's not that hard to sneak up on a dog even if it's awake. When you get close flick some small stones to distract the dog and keep it looking the other way. Now two or more dogs is an entirely different matter!

Dogs can be taken out with poison, silenced pistol or even a crossbow. A combination of dog and an alert guard is hard to beat. I never worry about anything upwind when the dog is around. (Nothing will beat a dog's nose.) That leaves less territory for me to watch.

Agree wholeheartedly on engaging the BG's far away from "home."


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*A Bunker*



HozayBuck said:


> *I really don't care for the bunker idea , once your inside the Zombies own the area,cameras can be taken out with well placed shots etc etc... I remember watching the TV mini series "Masada" it was an eye opener.. if they want in bad enough they will get in. But we are talking about fighting against MZBG's not military units with all the power that would bring ...hopefully.
> 
> I believe it's better the meet them away from the homestead , gorilla style.. fire one good shot and fade away , you can get enough of them that moving on is their best choice , "Charley" proved that time and again..
> 
> ...


A Bunker becomes a prison without an outside force and a secure area surrounding it.

The only way I would want to stay in one is if it had an alternate means of escape, (such as a tunnel).

The mountian man, Liver eating Johnson, escaped his surrounded cabin through a hidden tunnel and poisened seven Blackfoot indians with the fresh baked biscuits he left on the hearth of his fire place.

He baked them with arsnic ,( wolf bait).

The next day, he moved back in.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

When SHTF and the lives of everybody depends upon the sentries staying awake and alert, niceties go out the window! This is when it will be nice to have a combat vet in your group, cause they will do what needs to be done to make sure no sentry ever falls asleep again. 

Like my fellow warriors I agree that a bunker is not, in itself, good to deter or beat a enemy. Hit and run attacks upon the enemy before they even come close to your position is your best bet. Never set a pattern, hit at all times throughout day and night, and keep the enemy always on alert will wear them down. Use snipers to shoot at everybody that appears to be in a leadership position will also help.


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