# Homesteading in the wilderness near coyotes



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

I'm curious if anyone is raising livestock in a backwoods wilderness area where there is an abundance of coyotes and how much trouble they are.
Is it possible or will I spend all of my nights with a rifle in hand?


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Put your animals up at night if possible, guard dogs right out in the field and trap/shoot coyotes during the season(or all year long if legal) to keep them thinned down. Still expect some losses but yes it's very possible


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

We have about every kind of predator in North America. A good guard dog will help with coyotes, bobcats, black bears, and mtn lions. Wolves and grizzlies will eat the dog first. Normally losses to predators are low. We had to put electric fencing around the chicken pen last summer due to a raiding grizzly. Neighbors lost chickens and turkeys to it. We keep our livetock close to home but we only have 20 acres and no livstock at the moment. Our dog is a border collie and keeps out the little predators and big cats but just sounds an alarm for grizzlies and wolves. She has survived because of her discretion. We replace cats on a regular basis. Most predators like eating cats. 

What size operation do you have in mind?


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## bugoutbob (Nov 11, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> She has survived because of her discretion. We replace cats on a regular basis. Most predators like eating cats.


Coyotes will come into town here at night (mid central Alberta, Canada) and keep the local cat population in check.

Here we find that they are packing up more and more (seldom saw more than one coyote at a time and now seldom see a single, often five or more) and the packs love to send in one yote to lure a dog out where the cat can get it. Still lots of people here raise livestock with minimal yote losses. Smart dogs, good quality fencing help. So do llama's and donkeys (both hate old Wile E.)

Be prepared to shoot the odd one. The good thing about a note is if you miss a shot at them they almost always stop at about an additional 100 yards and turn to look back so you get another.

On the plus side They are smart, fun to watch and I love the sound of a coyote symphony.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Per our local wildlife folks ... a good woven wire fence works wonders. 

Then second a good "farm" dog ... best of luck.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Depends on what type of livestock.
Here, free range chickens don't fare so well because of the coyotes (and hawks). I don't have problems with them getting after cattle or horses. There's a jenny that runs with them so it helps somewhat.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Donkey's are suppose to be a very good guard animal against yotes and such. Not sure how they would fair against wolves or bears.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

bacpacker said:


> Donkey's are suppose to be a very good guard animal against yotes and such. Not sure how they would fair against wolves or bears.


I had no luck with the donkey with the sheep or the cows... not that I worry about the longhorns but we did add one for a plus only to find out it would run the calves.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

_We have lived in areas where the coyotes were very vocal at night. A neighbor shot one and brought it over to show our kids. Even so, we never lost any of our goats, chickens, or cats. We ALWAYS had a livestock guardian dog in with the livestock, and the coyotes gave our place a wide berth.
~ Starcreek_

*Livestock Guardian Dogs: for family and flock*

I woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of screaming demons from Hell making their way across our valley, toward our little homestead. Coyotes!

I lay in the dark, listening. It was the first encounter I'd had with coyotes, and I was enthralled by the intermingling tapestry of their voices: yips, barks, howls, all woven together, into an ancient warning&#8230;of danger to livestock. That's when I decided we needed to get a livestock guardian dog.

When we first moved out on our little 5-acre homestead in Tennessee, we had a dog - a half-Golden Retriever, half-Kuvasz - but Kahlua was a pet, not a livestock dog. Kuvasz are a breed of livestock guardian dog (LGD), but our dog guarded only my children, and knew little about livestock.

Fair enough, we knew little about LGDs.

That was 16 years ago, and in the intervening years we've had a varied experience at raising livestock in a lot of different places. We've had goats, chickens, pigs, and calves, in four different states. And we have found that the very best deterrent of predators - both the four-legged kind and the two-legged kind - is dogs. They beat out fences, guns, poison, and traps.

Continued.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Get you some highlanders.... They will even kill wolves. A friend of mine had to pull one off the horn of his bull. That same bull also killed 3 german shepherds that were chasing the calves. He has not lost one to bears or cats either.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

Here in Alabama it open season on feral hogs and coyotes. Technically one should obtain a special “crop depredation” permit. In practice if you’re on your property… no one is going to say anything or ask you for a permit.

This is one of my favorite times of the year to hunt coyotes. The pups are in the den. Not long after dark you will hear a pack start to assemble, calling to each other. They assemble close to the den, it may take me a week to locate it. Then I can take out a generation in an afternoon…

Now, I would never do such a thing but I’ve heard  … Of whole communities chaining up or putting every dog in a pen. Then they scatter gallons of stew meat soaked in antifreeze or even more nasty things… 

This isn’t pretty, this is war! Here they have decimated native populations of wild life. I haven’t seen or heard a quail in 6 or 7 years. My cousin was sitting on her porch one afternoon. She has several small house dogs she had allowed out into the yard. A coyote bolted out of the woods and ran off with one of her little dogs. This was broad daylight! 

Yes, donkeys hate canines, some more than others, same for horses. I posted the other day about a horse and donkey I own. I’ve spent $$$ on them in the last week. The main reason I keep them around, they both “Hate” coyotes and keep them away from my cattle, chickens and rabbits.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

Thank you all for your help. I have saved the info and all links.
Appreciate your time.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Cattle if allowed to develop natural herd instincts will look after themselves





A bit bigger predator, but the effect is the same


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Not knowing what kind of livestock you're trying to protect might make this irrelevant, but we kept our commercial meat goat herd behind 6 strand high tensile electric fence, and Great Pyrenees inside and out of the pens. *Used* to have quite a few coyotes around, haven't heard one in a few years though. I'm not sure how the Pyrenees would fare against wolves or bears, but one of mine came home bloody as all get out, and after checking him and finding no real wounds, followed him to the coyote that he had killed and been rolling in...

If depredation is a problem and you are penning up your animals, check out the high tensile electric. A lot of people think it's expensive, but it really isn't even when compared to barbed wire or livestock woven wire. You do have to brace your corners better, but properly installed, it is tough, durable and effective against any predator I've encountered.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

Balls004, no to go off topic... How about starting a thread, maybe pics of your meat goats... A subject of great interest to me. Been thinking about taking the farm in a different direction. Getting to old to be run over by cattle


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

We have a 5 strand high tensile electric fence with woven on the other end ... If we had gone seven, it may have stopped them but five did not. (just a fact ... here)

(plus) Our Great Pyrenees was great till the folks down the road started giving them "treats" (which they later bitched about ...)

It all comes back to what "you" have going on ... Just the other day we had a coyote come in the high tensile electric fence side but could not find a way out on the woven fence side ... :dunno: I will not go into details... 

IMO ... You need to find what works for you ... best of luck!


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Cotton said:


> Balls004, no to go off topic... How about starting a thread, maybe pics of your meat goats... A subject of great interest to me. Been thinking about taking the farm in a different direction. Getting to old to be run over by cattle


I'll see what I can do in that department for you.


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## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

We rarely have trouble with coyotes when it comes to our cattle. Our cows will put the run on a coyote pretty fast and regularly chase black bears out of our pastures as well. Our main concern is wolves and we have lost a few head over the years to them, including a couple of horses.

With coyotes I tend to shoot any that hang around and don't worry about the ones passing through. In the winter I trap them and thin them out. They are certainly a bigger concern if you have sheep or goats as they can snag a lamb or a kid pretty fast.

Back when we had some sheep we used page wire fencing and a couple of strands of hot wire down low. Never had any problems with wild canines........... now cougars, that is a different story. Even had a lynx kill a couple of lambs one winter. Oh well, they are just trying to make a living.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

*Andi said:


> Per our local wildlife folks ... a good woven wire fence works wonders. .


Yes, it's wonderful - - - **IF** you *don't* have to pay for it.
That sht ain't cheap!


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Yes, it's wonderful - - - **IF** you *don't* have to pay for it.
> That sht ain't cheap!


Around here the bears will scramble over a woven wire fence like it's a ladder. If the posts aren't good they'll break them off. Mountain lions, bobcats and lynx will do the same. We have a six foot fence around our garden with three strands of electric wire in addition to keep the bears out. One is at the bottom to discourage digging, one is in the center to discourage climbing and one at the top to discourage jumpers.

Just a quick homestead fencing tip: Have some electric fence wire/tape/etc., insulator, and a couple of chargers on hand. Solar chargers work good away from the homestead but we like the regular fencers best and just run them off our home's (solar) power using an inverter. There are some nice, portable, battery/solar units made for backpackers that make a quick emergency fence if you need it. If bear hits your place you can count on it coming back the next night so you may have to put something up fast. An electric fence is about the only thing that will stop a bear (black or grizzly).


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

No electric fence is complete without peanut butter. Critters of all types can’t seem to resist a taste or really close sniff of peanut butter, even deer! 

Jif works well for me, especially for deer. I just take a jar and knife and give the wire a little smear every 30 ft or so. After a big rain I might reapply.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

LincTex said:


> Yes, it's wonderful - - - **IF** you *don't* have to pay for it.
> That sht ain't cheap!


I agree it is not cheap but you get what you pay for. (as with anything)


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> An electric fence is about the only thing that will stop a bear (black or grizzly).


Funny - - Yet, they'll eat up a hive full of stinging bees?! :dunno:


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

One morning I got up to go milk the goats, and a couple of the "girls" were out! I looked around, and my Anatolian livestock guardian dog was in the yard, as she normally is....although she looked kind of tired. My Akbash livestock guardian dog was in the goat pen, along with the rest of the goats, as he normally would be. But when I started looking for where the two escapees got out of the pen, I found about 30 feet of electric fence ripped up and tangled up, halfway up the hill. I knew the goats and the dogs were already trained to the fence and would not have got into it like that. There were some serious scuff marks in the dirt, and my Anatolian had a 4-inch scratch on her muzzle.

I don't know what the dogs ran off that night, but they got hamburger for breakfast that morning!


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Starcreek said:


> There were some serious scuff marks in the dirt, and my Anatolian had a 4-inch scratch on her muzzle.
> 
> I don't know what the dogs ran off that night, but they got hamburger for breakfast that morning!


Nice reward!

It amazes me the devotion that a dog who is raised with a flock or herd shows towards protecting them. One of my dogs didn't come home with the goats one nasty evening, and when we went looking for him, he was out in the pasture with a kid that a doe had dropped and walked away from. Pretty sure it was Jasper who had cleaned the kid up and was doing his best to be momma. He got a similar treat too!


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

My neighbor raises goats and has a couple of Great Pyrenees. We live in an area with coyotes, and I have even seen a couple chasing a rabbit real close to the house. My neighbors haven't lost any goats though, and I found out why late one night. I kept hearing a goat bleating and finally went outside to see what was going on. A goat had its head stuck in the mesh fence. I did manage to get its head loose, but I also had to watch the dog which was watching me from about 8' away. The dog wasn't very happy to see me around the goat, but it did let me free the goat. Then it quickly herded the goat away from that human who was a stranger.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Pyrenees are like that. Excellent family and herd dogs, but they don't cotton much to strangers or predators. 

Some friends of ours who went on vacation, and asked us to look after their goat herd while they were gone had one Pyrenees that we had to feed and pen up, so we could go out in the goat pen. I really do think he would have ripped us a new one otherwise. Didn't matter that we were over there every couple of days, we weren't family to him, and I don't care what my wife says, I'm not an old goat either.


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