# Getting Started, Again...



## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

I'm new to this site, so bear with me.

My wife and I have been prepping, slowly but steadily for the last three years+. Then it happened, TEOTWAWKI, but in a way few of us are likely prepared for. In all the years of reading, watching videos, networking with other preppers, the one thing absent from everyone's discussion was fire, fire in the home, on the homestead or the BOL.

We suffered the loss of our detached, over-sized 3 car, two-story garage just a couple of weeks ago.  It is a devastating loss, almost equal in some measure to losing our home. It was the main storage area for all of our hard prep work over the years. Dry food, canned food, water, medical kits, extra "comfort items" and so much more. Maybe the hardest part, given the current assault on the 2d Amendment was the loss of my secondary ammo stores. 

Our garage was perfect for our storage needs. It remained exceptionally cool during the summer months, not too cold in the harshness of winter, even though it is not heated. The previous owner did an excellent job of insulating with the intent of heating. He nor I had gotten around to that, for differing reasons I suppose. Upstairs, where our dry goods were stored on 8 shelf units I built, each, 6' high x 12' long x 3' wide. Most were full, which is what triggered our recent search for and purchase of our BOL. Thousand of dollars and even more hours lost.

Having just purchased a place that was to become our BOL, we have nothing in reserve built up there. Don't get me wrong, we have probably 45-60 days worth of supplies in the home itself, but not like we had in our garage. It's just the crushing realization that we have a long, arduous climb back to self-sufficiency.

Our plan for a different SHTF scenario was to be able remain at our very rural home, which has ample supply of water via my two wells and our food stores, for at least a year if viable. After that year or as the situation changed, head to our BOL. Simple, well thought out plans, reliable means of transportation, defense and adequate food stores at both locations would allow indefinite survival in most cases.

Now, we go backward three+ years.

I am writing to share 2 hard lessons learned and one lesson that I inexplicably avoided.

1st...the proverbial "Don't put all your eggs in one basket." While we had what we thought was a decent plan, splitting our bulk storage and short term storage between house and garage, this proved to be ineffective in hindsight. While the space afforded us by such a large garage seemed logical, I overlooked the weakness of it's wood frame construction. Fire loves wood frame construction.

We will rebuild, but not on that scale. I will opt for an in-ground storage container.

2d...be mindful of the other activities you conduct in your home/BOL/storage space and the items you store there. Like a lot of preppers, I am a handy person and had a lot of woodworking equipment in the garage (a great source of enjoyment which was also the source of the fire). Some people have reloading equipment, others have things stored that can act as significant accellerants in the event of a fire. (My stains, paints thinners, etc., were in a flame locker.)

3d...buy as much insurance as you can afford. I know it seems contrary to a prepper's mindset to give away more of anything without a tangible and immediate return, but in this case it could be the difference between not being prepared for the real TEOTWAWKI moment. This is our third purchased home over the years (a lot of military moves) and each time I have learned a little something about the insurance game, primarily, you will always pay and the insurance company wins more than we ever will. However, when we bought this home 8 years ago, I opted for the most coverage we could afford, 5 years ago, we upped that coverage. Two years ago, I had my agent out to the house to show him some "stuff" that I wanted to make sure was covered. Mostly my woodworking equipment, but those shelves too, which weren't really stocked at the time. I showed him my gun safe in the home and provided pictures and serial numbers for "some" of those weapons, (mostly collectables). We showed him a lot of our equipment that we used in our preps, never disclosing what we were really doing. The point is, I was thorough and made sure I knew what I was paying for.

Four business days after the fire, we had a check for the total _*replacement*_ value of our loss, vice *value of loss*. If you don't have "replacement value" in your policy for the contents of your home, you are not fully prepared for a pre-SHTF event. You could suffer the loss of your preps and property, but not be fully reimbursed for that loss which could put you in a bind. No, I am not an insurance agent either. Just a retired infantry jarhead and regular working stiff like most people.

On somewhat humorous note, while my place was burning to the ground, the fire chief and police chief, in standing a good distance back while the ammunition cooked off, said it was the best smelling fire and fireworks show they had been to. In that moment of stress, anger, frustration, I belly-laughed like I had not in many years.

Anyway, we are waiting for the great thaw to come so we can begin construction of our new steel garage and the replacement of so many preps.

I have to buy a lot of stuff this spring, back to work.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

That was a hard blow, and I am very sorry. You do sound like the kind of person who can do most anything, when you put your mind to it, and you will recover.
If I haven't said it before, welcome to the forum, and above all, thank you for your service.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

Thanks, camo.

Can't be a prepper and not be resilient, right? Attitude is everything and it is a positive attitude combined with mental toughness that allows one to live well, not just survive.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*steel*

Thank you for sharing this story. I have thought about a number of things you wrote about.

Not putting all our eggs in one basket. Your is not the first fire story of a prepper whose loss was great. Not to take anything away from your story, but this is another preppers who lost his home and everything. http://orangejeepdad.blogspot.com/2013/10/our-house-burned-down-today.html

Building with steel. I live in Colorado and there have been many devastating fires here. In one fire, one home survived in the burn area. It was a home that was built to be as fire resistant and proof as possible. It was deliberately built. Of course the owner paid more for some things, according to the news story, but in the long run, it paid off. I have thought about this when considering building in the middle of nowhere. A fire is a SHTF situation that could hit any of us.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

weedygarden said:


> A fire is a SHTF situation that could hit any of us.


True enough about a fire being a SHTF situation. I guess when I say we as preppers don't talk about fires, I am more referring to the fires that come from within.

Wild fires, large fires from accidents, etc., those are things we tend to be more outwardly focused on. From my own experience, I wish I would have thought more about an inside the home event that could jeopardize my preps, my family, and our security.

It is human nature to be focused inward (self-preservation), and what preppers do is somewhat counter-intuitive by focusing outwardly on possible outcomes. This is not a bad thing. I just wanted to point out that it's important to look inward sometimes too. I used to tell my Marines and still tell my kids, "The best lessons learned are those that come at the expense of another." I hope my lessons help someone else.

Thank you for the response. Sharing information and dialogue is how we learn.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear about your fire, but glad to see you here.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

A very helpful post. Thanks for sharing. 

We insure only the vehicles we are driving and only with liability insurance as required by law. We have things scattered in so many different locations that no single event is ever likely wipe us out. In addition, the things we need most we can make ourselves.

The few times we've had a loss I did the math and the insurance companies always came out ahead meaning that we never received more than we had paid in. The key though is to have your resources distributed and secured well, a good extended family (we have eight children and a big batch of grandkids) or group with duplicate materials, tools, and skills, and the ability to live with virtually no manufactured items if need be.

And if we lost everything? We have contingency plans for that too.


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## UniqueOldGal (Mar 7, 2012)

I'm so sorry for what you went through. There is a lot of discussion here about caches and dividing stores,you just haven't read it yet. Your story will cause many to review I'm sure,as it slams it all home.
Our prep items are divided between home closet,detached garage,buckets in our pickup, and outbuilding and I'm thinking of starting a 5th in part of my greenhouse under a potting table.
My DH is a Viet Nam Marine infantry combat "grunt" veteran with 2 purple hearts who also lives in "a state of disbelief" so I got a great kick out of you joining the forum! There is a Great deal of insight and experience on these pages. "welcome home"...


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

UniqueOldGal said:


> I'm so sorry for what you went through. There is a lot of discussion here about caches and dividing stores,you just haven't read it yet.
> 
> My DH is a Viet Nam infantry combat veteran with 2 purple hearts who also lives in "a state of disbelief" so I got a great kick out of you joining the forum!
> 
> There is a Great deal of insight and experience on these pages. "welcome home"...


Although a hassle and true I would prefer it not have happened, I am not sorry for the experience. Along with learning some lessons, I now get to build the garage and storage facility I *really *want!! :2thumb:

People like your husband and my uncle Ray (4 tours, 4PH, 1 Silver Star, 2 Bronze, USMC, Republic of Viet Nam) are the reason I joined. Not to mention, my family has a bit of a "Lieutenant Dan" thing going on with the men serving in the military. Fortunately, we tend to survive. My oldest son just enlisted in the Marines too.

Thank you for the warm welcome.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

PHJ- your post is very thought provoking. I'm sorry for what happened and am thoroughly impressed by your resolve and readiness to move on. We don't have caches or really even a BOL...my preps are geared for sheltering in place at the farm where we already live. This makes us very susceptible to a fire. 

You got me thinking, man.

Welcome to PS, and :thankyou: for your service!


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

Jason said:


> We don't have *caches or really even a BOL*
> *
> You got me thinking, man.*


Jason, thank you for your post.

We only just found our BOL, but that is the extent of it, it's just a location. Nothing there yet and it was a long time in the making with plans to slowly build, as we did at home, our preps. Although the term build also has a literal meaning for us. That will have to wait until we are again back up to snuff at our homestead.

Our plan was and remains to shelter in place, for a year. If we don't have to move that would be ideal, but we don't live in an idyllic world do we? So our BOL is our fall back position if the homestead is compromised. Otherwise, I believe we would be quite sustainable beyond a year here.

Thinking is the name of the game. I know some folks have mentioned the fires since I posted. But honestly, in all of my time prepping, never did any of my fellow preppers or videos or books mention the threats from within. Everything was the external threats. Caches were discussed of course, but with a different purpose. I lost everything in my garage, but I did not lose _*everything*_. Most of what I lost will be replaced within 18 months, which, all things considered, is not bad. (The ammo still pisses me off though.)

I'm in no way blaming this oversight on anyone, it is my responsibility and mine alone to plan and prepare for these contingencies. That is why I mentioned, honestly, I am grateful for the lessons.

I will still make effective use of my garage for storage. I will also have a new in-ground storage facility. (My plan is to have the construction crew use their backhoe to dig a nice, big, deep root cellar while they are working the foundation for the new garage footprint. Probably only cost me slipping a C-note to the operator, hopefully.) I will have things spread out better. Whatever new ammo I have will get spread out over several more ammo caches. That really was a sight, approximately 5000 rounds of various small arms cooking off was a pretty good show. I believe I will place much of my ammunition in the ground.

By the way, I know 5000 rounds sounds like a lot, to some. But for all you NSA/ATF/FBI/DHS and other anti-2d Amendment types, I am an avid recreational shooter, mostly clays. I'll burn through 500 rounds in a weekend easy, and that is just me. Add in my three sons who also enjoy the sport, and you can see how fast we can go through some ammo. So to me, it really isn't that much.

Anyway, I'm glad to share the story and the lessons. Hope you sort through things and come up with some improvements for your preps.


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## UniqueOldGal (Mar 7, 2012)

PurpleHeartJarhead said:


> Jason, thank you for your post.
> 
> Thinking is the name of the game. I know some folks have mentioned the fires since I posted. But honestly, in all of my time prepping, never did any of my fellow preppers or videos or books mention the threats from within. Everything was the external threats.


Story:
I was "around" for Y2K,living by myself,rustic,in a cabin on a mountainside. I was self-employed working ALL the time,not gardening at 5000 feet(didn't know greenhouses yet), so I did get some cans and buckets of food back then. With my lifestyle I figured I needed it for getting snowed in for a month anyway so I covered both bases.  AFTER the turn of the year 2000,and owning my first computer for research and news, you wouldn't Believe how many peoples garages blew up or burned down because they'd stored propane canisters or Coleman cans or gas cans in dangerous ways OR accidental "whatever" got into their stores. Y2K supplies were the cause of several "big news" Reported accidents and supplies were piled into garage sales all over the nation that next year;lots of generators for 1/2 price new,and "year freeze-dried modules" and all that.
If I'd had a house back then I'd have loaded up for cheap. It gave prepping a 'bad name' too which ticked me off 'cause I liked the idea.That was when internal disasters got ingrained into me though. I never thought about it being "missing" from books or sites because I felt so bad for those people that lost their investments in supplies and never forgot.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

UniqueOldGal said:


> Story:
> I was "around" for Y2K....I never thought about it being "missing" from books or sites.


Laughing...I too remember the Y2K issue. Silly in retrospect, but it was the impetus for me that started me on my prepping journey.

Your posts are telling of your experiences or at least in this case of your memory of events. I appreciate your perspective.

In my entire life, before my garage went up, I am the first person I personally know who lost something to a fire at home. None of my friends or family ever had such an event. My father-in-law was a fire chief, and he always made sure to check on our smoke detectors and gave us fire extinguishers and made us aware of hazards. But still, it never sunk in with me. Not even with my wife.

Like I said in another post, I am glad for the lesson and blessed that it didn't come too late, I hope.

Books, videos, even other people's lessons don't always translate well if you are not tuning in. I was not tuned in. As a result of my failure, I didn't see this happening.

It's funny to hear you talk about what you saw on the news. From mid 2000 through 2010, I was deployed over seas more than I was ever home. I lost the better part of a decade in knowing what was going on in America while being at the tip of America's foreign policy spear.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We evacuated due to wildfires back in 2011, luckily the fires never reached our place but it was scary & really made us think about fire & the possibility of losing everything but what we could pack into the 5th wheel. Not long ago, we had a fire in our cabinet shop which is about 150ft from our home. One of the guys happened to leave a rag with stain wadded up which caught fire. Many events fell into place just right & I pulled up in time to extinguish the fire by myself but it could've went very different. We could've lost not only the shop & it's contents, but well over half of our income & the income of the 17 guys that work for us in that business. I agree you don't hear much about it from prepping books & videos, but I assure you we definitely think about these possibilities & have the insurance & contingency plans in place for these situations. 

The possibility of job loss, major medical problems, fire, tornado, serious car accident, or extended family having a devastating event that effects you are all still very real possibilities we all need to consider & plan for.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Not trying to derail the thread or take away from your loss but it might be a good time to remind those reading that you should not store firearms with a loaded chamber or cylinders. If it burns the bullet will be discharged just as if the trigger had been pulled.

Ammunition will explode but the bullet has little force if it isn't chambered. Usually the bullet remains in place and the brass cartridge case is thrown as shrapnel. You don't want to get hit in the eye but body hits usually just sting with minor cuts. (Don't ask how I know!)

Likewise store gunpowder in the original container. Do not tightly confine it. If confined it becomes a bomb. It will still burn with a loud whish but shouldn't explode ( black powder is an exception).

Still, I wouldn't want to be close for any of this!

Our son is a fireman and knows which buildings to save and which to stand back from and watch the show. I never leave rounds in a chamber or revolver cylinder. Firefighting is dangerous enough without getting someone shot accidentally.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Not trying to derail the thread or take away from your loss but it might be a good time to remind those reading that you should not store firearms with a loaded chamber or cylinders. If it burns the bullet will be discharged just as if the trigger had been pulled.
> 
> Ammunition will explode but the bullet has little force if it isn't chambered. Usually the bullet remains in place and the brass cartridge case is thrown as shrapnel. You don't want to get hit in the eye but body hits usually just sting with minor cuts. (Don't ask how I know!)
> 
> ...


Good points, all.

Given our rural location, our garage was fully involved by the time the volunteers showed up. I met them at the end of our driveway, knowing about the already cooking off ammo. I did not want someone getting hurt because of the nature of my stores.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

PurpleHeartJarhead said:


> Good points, all.
> 
> Given our rural location, our garage was fully involved by the time the volunteers showed up. I met them at the end of our driveway, knowing about the already cooking off ammo. I did not want someone getting hurt because of the nature of my stores.


We'll have the same problem if our place ever burns. Even though the firemen know where we live the distance, our road, and our location will keep response times very slow. However, if it's a forest fire there will be firemen on site and I'd hate to see one of them hurt.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I feel for you and I truly mean that.
I know for 5 years what it took (and still does just not every weekend) to acquire those preps if you didn't order online ,which in my case I didn't.

Haul those bulk items to the car, haul those bulk items to the kitchen, repackage and seal some, label some, haul them to the pantry or storage room, shelf them and re-organize a dozen times.

And thanks for that advise; I do have all my food in one room.
I plan on correcting that soon.


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

Man Purple, that is tough. So sorry this kinda thing had to happen. I guess in a way learning this will make you stronger next time and allows you to share this with us here to hope maybe we don't go thru this kinda thing too.

Thanks for your service, your sons as well and welcome to the board.


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## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

PurpleHeartJarHead,
I am sorry for your loss. Thank you for your service. I know this is not easy. I once lost a house to fire. Not an activity I would willing participate in again. You will recover and you're correct it's all about attitude. I found myself having to try to replace silly things like my favorite pillow or bath towel. Simple things like that, things we take for granted every day.

I apprecicate your post. It reminds me to be careful and thoughtful about where and how I manage my storage. I, and probably others, would be very interested to see pictures of how your recovery process progresses.
Take care,
Moose


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

PHJ, thanks for relating the story of your losses, it's never easy to relive those events. You have made me rethink our prep storage and I thank you for that.


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

Sorry to hear about the loss of your stuff. Glad everyone is okay.
About a year ago, someone put in a post, something to the tune of...what if your house caught fire after SHTF? I think it was on one of the threads about "Is it stealing" . Anyway, that is the thing that made me start spreading out my stuff just in case my house catches fire.

Admittedly, I need to do a better job of separating things. I have all of my propane tanks near each other, and gas & diesel is stored in the same area. I have a lot to do to get myself ready. Thanks for the warning.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Glad you and your family are OK. Replacing things is easier than replacing people. 
The added insurance is a good idea. I'll keep that in mind when I can finally buy a place.
Thanks for the heads up!


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## bushpilot (Dec 3, 2012)

JH 
Sorry for your loss. I still remember that cold December morning in 2006. At two AM we were in bed and an explosion awoke us. It was the little 13 " TV I had on the work bench. I went downstairs to investigate, as I opened the door of the garage I was engulfed in smoke and could see flames. Yelled to my wife to call 911, grabbed all the car keys and all the pets we had. Placed pets in vehicles, moved vehicles down road. Lost all tools, firearms, camping equipment! Well there is a point. The outdoor cat who was in the garage survived! We adopted her after neighbor moved away. She is gone now, but not forgotten.


Sent from my iPad using Survival Forum


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

I am sorry about your loss. It makes for a rather steep uphill battle for replacement of what's lost in consideration of cost increases since you purchased all of the things you had, not to mention the availability of those items. There are times when we order things that take weeks and months to get because the demand has gone up so much, probably due to more people realizing that things are getting worse and the future is iffy. Fire is something we always have in mind where we live because we are surrounded by forests. A few years ago in order to comply with our counties rural interface fire protection plan I had to remove all lower branches on trees within the fire danger circumference area around our home. We were already cutting weeds and grass to abate any chance of fires getting too close. One thing that I decided to do when we did a major remodel was to install rib-lock metal panel roofing on our home, as it worked out by doing so it reduced the radius of fire protection from 100 feet down to 50 feet. I'll be adding on to our firewood/garden tractor shed soon and I'm going to install metal roofing and siding on it. The fire we had last summer came within 400 feet behind us, thankfully it just slowly burned the underbrush and leaves but there is always the concern of flying embers. I asked some of the firemen that were around to keep an eye on peoples property if they thought that our property was defensible from what we had done to comply with the rural forest interface work we had done and they said yes, same for the neighbors. I do suggest that it is a very good thing to have good quality garden hose on hand and sprinklers that can be put across the peak of the roof because it's amazing how far burning embers fly. A friend of ours had embers start a small fire in his rain gutters due to a small build up of fir needles, he got it out right away but it does show that little things like that could possibly light off the roof.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

bushpilot said:


> JH
> Sorry for your loss. I still remember that cold December morning in 2006. At two AM we were in bed and an explosion awoke us. It was the little 13 " TV I had on the work bench. I went downstairs to investigate, as I opened the door of the garage I was engulfed in smoke and could see flames. Yelled to my wife to call 911, grabbed all the car keys and all the pets we had. Placed pets in vehicles, moved vehicles down road. Lost all tools, firearms, camping equipment! Well there is a point. The outdoor cat who was in the garage survived! We adopted her after neighbor moved away. She is gone now, but not forgotten.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Survival Forum


It's scary what can start a fire. Years ago while my wife and I were eating supper the 13" TV that was in the other room blew it's flyback transformer, luckily it didn't start a fire but I'm sure it could have under the right conditions. I thought something had fallen so I checked it out, other than a now worthless TV everything was okay. When we leave home I always disconnect or turn off power to TV's, computers and anything with plug in transformers that power phones, adding machines, printers and etc.


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## bushpilot (Dec 3, 2012)

Viking said:


> It's scary what can start a fire. Years ago while my wife and I were eating supper the 13" TV that was in the other room blew it's flyback transformer, luckily it didn't start a fire but I'm sure it could have under the right conditions. I thought something had fallen so I checked it out, other than a now worthless TV everything was okay. When we leave home I always disconnect or turn off power to TV's, computers and anything with plug in transformers that power phones, adding machines, printers and etc.


Guess I should have been more spacific. It was not the tv, it was the tv exploding. The fire started by a stupid person using an old out of date extention cord to run an 1800 wt space heater for a cat. Yes I loved that cat, but not more than my wife and home. Lost all my tools, guns, and camping gear. Any questions, ask my insurance comapony? They paid out over $25,000.00 for the rebuild.

Sent from my iPad using Survival Forum


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

PurpleHeartJarhead, thank you for your service and sorry to hear about your losses. It's good that no one was injured. We had a water pipe burst years back at another home and couldn't find the main shut off, called the County, had the fire dept out, nobody could find the shut off. It was only after the house was flooded and they tore up the landscape, that the previous owner put over the water shut off valve, did someone find it. We had a go-round with the insurance company so now I document and film what we own and store it online. We make sure everyone knows where the gas and water shut offs are located and landscaped so that only non-combustibles are near the house, roof is metal and each room has a smoke detector. Been pruning away bushes and trees that could act as fire ladders. My main concern has always been our attached garage, lots of combustibles out there. Never use space heaters and unplug all the tools when done, still worries me when I hear stories like yours.


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## PurpleHeartJarhead (Mar 23, 2014)

Gians said:


> We had a water pipe burst years back...


Yeah, that happened to us three years ago here. We had spent the winter getting preps going, it was our first few months of serious prepping. Fortunately, it wasn't a main, just an outside anti-siphon spigot that ruptured. I was actually cleaning a big 60" tiller off with that hose and the result was water in my finished basement a few inches deep. Nothing in comparison to your experience. It was what got us thinking about using the garage on a bigger scale. Too bad we didn't think the opposite at the time, about fire that is.

In this case it was only my garage and not our home, so it's a little easier to accept. But, things work out they way they do for a reason, or at least my wife believes. She's usually right.


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