# Where is the safest place to live?



## weedygarden

Given all the turmoil that goes on in our nation and world, I am wondering if someone know of a study or theory out there of where the safest places are to locate in the U.S., or even the world, and on the other hand, what states, areas, or countries are best to stay away from. And why? Some states might have good areas and others to avoid.

Can we keep quoting and filling in this list with ideas? Maybe we will come up with the perfect place to move to.

•Alabama
•Alaska
•Arizona--just too darned hot and an issue of not enough water. Too hot to really grow food in some parts. 

•Arkansas
•California
•Colorado
•Connecticut
•Delaware
•District of Columbia
•Florida
•Georgia
•Guam
•Hawaii
•Idaho
•Illinois
•Indiana
•Iowa
•Kansas
•Kentucky
•Louisiana
•Maine
•Maryland
•Massachusetts
•Michigan
•Minnesota
•Mississippi
•Missouri
•Montana
•Nebraska
•Nevada
•New Hampshire
•New Jersey
•New Mexico
•New York
•North Carolina
•North Dakota--can have horribly cold winters, but grows good wheat.
•Ohio
•Oklahoma
•Oregon
•Pennsylvania
•Puerto Rico--soooo hot and muggy in the summer
•Rhode Island
•South Carolina
•South Dakota
•Tennessee
•Texas
•Utah
•Vermont
•Virginia 
•Virgin Islands 
•Washington
•West Virginia
•Wisconsin
•Wyoming


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## Sourdough

Kenai Peninsula, Alaska (Note: was 68* today and mostly sunny)


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## petedewd

West coast is off because of quakes. 
Yellowstone eruption would take out entire midwest so...

Good question.


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## TheAnt

I would just like to say that what is said about Arizona pertains just to where I live. There are parts of Arizona that would be well suited to surivival living. The main problem I have with those parts is that the land is very expensive (to me). I wouldnt want to live in the desert parts of Arizona but if you can get water to anywhere in Arizona it would be a fine place -- just more expensive than I would want to pay. We dont have hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes. We have wildfires and illegal aliens that take what they want even if its yours. I love the state and its (mostly) conservative ideals.


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## Meerkat

When my perfect little angel kids turned into teenage strangers in the late seventies I decided it was a society problem.

So we decided to move to the wilderess.Decided on Northwest Territory up in N.Canada where its dark for months,colder than cold and cabin fever is an epedemic.

Menu consist of moose tonque,and what ever fish you get breaking through the ice.

Even the wilderness seemed like a better plan than fighting the tonque swapping skating rinks and movie shows.So we started making plans and bought a wildernes survival book.

It scares me to think of how we almost made the move to a place that probably would have been a death sentence for us all. Not to speak of being locked in a cabin with 3 angry teens for 9 months out of the year.
But your your young it would seem like the best place to go where nobody would care enough to look for you.


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## catsraven

All states have problems. The question is what are you willing to tolerate? Hot, hot and muggy, no water, or harsh winters? There is no safe place.

Personally I tolerate hot muggy to avoid harsh winters. We do get some snow once or twice a year (under 1 inch). 20 degrees is considered cooold here. If I had more of a choice it would be east Texas or south east Oklahoma.


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## TheAnt

catsraven said:


> All states have problems. The question is what are you willing to tolerate? Hot, hot and muggy, no water, or harsh winters? There is no safe place.
> 
> Personally I tolerate hot muggy to avoid harsh winters. We do get some snow once or twice a year (under 1 inch). 20 degrees is considered cooold here. If I had more of a choice it would be east Texas or south east Oklahoma.


I agree with you on all counts. I even like the area described... I would extend that into much of AR too. Probably MO, AL, MS, LA and GA too.

I wouldnt enjoy too far north or too much west (unless it was higher elevation in the west).


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## Meerkat

Unless its something like a nuke or total destruction,we will just stay put.Too old to go hiking.

If we were young we may bug out someplace.

But I figure sooner or later you run out of places to go or they get crowded too.

It would have been easier to take back your nation than to run from its enemies.


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## BillS

I like Wisconsin. Where I live the crime rate is low. We never get hurricanes or earthquakes although this year a tornado or some high winds took some trees down a block or two from where I live. We get enough rain to grow crops although the winters are long and cold.


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## tsrwivey

catsraven said:


> All states have problems. The question is what are you willing to tolerate? Hot, hot and muggy, no water, or harsh winters? There is no safe place.
> 
> Personally I tolerate hot muggy to avoid harsh winters. We do get some snow once or twice a year (under 1 inch). 20 degrees is considered cooold here. If I had more of a choice it would be east Texas or south east Oklahoma.


 We'd be happy to have you!


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## tsrwivey

In my completely impartial opinion, east TX. A huge majority of well-armed conservatives, does it get any safer than that?!


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## ajsmith

I kinda like where I live, eastern Oregon. As long as you can drive on the road ways your only 60 min. or less from almost anything you want to do. My area is in the high desert, mostly juniper trees and sage brush, but I drive 20 to 30 min. in any direction and I'm in big time forest. We have lots of creeks, streams, rivers, lakes and reservoirs. Lots of deer (had six bedding down in the back yard last fall), Elk (brother had two run through his yard yesterday) Antelope and to the southeast about 40 min. we have black bear. For water fowl we have several kinds of duck, Canadian Geese. For upland birds we have pheasant, grouse, quail, dove, several more I can think of off the top of my head. For fish we have, salmon, trout (several kinds), bass and white fish (probably more but I'm not a real big fan of fishing). For other recreation we have some of the best snow skiing, water skiing, camping, off roading, hiking...

We have lots of cattle ranches and a few sheep, and our town is surrounded by farms (wheat, grass, and seed crops, onions and carrots mostly).  

I guess I'm babbling along here.........sorry

I think I'm going to have to sit down and make a list of all the things I take for granted. Anyway, I like it here because I know the area, it comfortable, it's home.......


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## catsraven

tsrwivey said:


> We'd be happy to have you!


Well thank you tsrwivey. I do live in Texas. I live a little to close to the city for my comfort.


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## GreyWolf

tsrwivey said:


> In my completely impartial opinion, east TX. A huge majority of well-armed conservatives, does it get any safer than that?!


Yep, you're right. Have you evern noticed how nervous city dweller that visit out here get when they hear people out shooting? Strange.


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## Sourdough

*Please NOTE:*

Please Note: The Original Post asks NOT where you would like to live, But where is the safest plase to live. (I think that was the question)...:dunno

The area I live in has "Never" had a murder or violent crime, never in it's history starting in 1887.


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## Sourdough

tsrwivey said:


> In my completely impartial opinion, east TX. A huge majority of well-armed conservatives, does it get any safer than that?!


How would they treat each other if there was no air conditioning ever again for say 5 years.......? No refrigeration for 5 years......?...:dunno:


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## Meerkat

Sourdough said:


> Please Note: The Original Post asks NOT where you would like to live, But where is the safest plase to live. (I think that was the question)...:dunno
> 
> The area I live in has "Never" had a murder or violent crime, never in it's history starting in 1887.


 LOL,nothing personal but is hard to commit a crime when nobodys there to rob.Not many people want to live in Alaskan small towns.

But I bet that is changing now that cities are becoming more crime infested everyday.


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## Frugal_Farmers

Meerkat said:


> LOL,nothing personal but is hard to commit a crime when nobodys there to rob.Not many people want to live in Alaskan small towns.
> 
> But I bet that is changing now that cities are becoming more crime infested everyday.


That's exactly the point--locals don't want a lot of people to want to live in Alaskan small towns either.


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## tsrwivey

Sourdough said:


> How would they treat each other if there was no air conditioning ever again for say 5 years.......? No refrigeration for 5 years......?...:dunno:


Some folks around here do live without AC. I reckon folks with swimming pools, ponds, or lake houses would have a lot of new found friends.  Lots of people work in the Texas heat everyday, they say you get used to it in a week or two. Folks live in Africa & South America without AC, I reckon we'd live too. I don't see that being too big of a problem.


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## Sourdough

Frugal_Farmers said:


> That's exactly the point--locals don't want a lot of people to want to live in Alaskan small towns either.


Yes, this town has 16 Humans. And it is getting crowded.


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## Sourdough

tsrwivey said:


> Some folks around here do live without AC. I reckon folks with swimming pools, ponds, or lake houses would have a lot of new found friends.  Lots of people work in the Texas heat everyday, they say you get used to it in a week or two. Folks live in Africa & South America without AC, I reckon we'd live too. I don't see that being too big of a problem.


One way to find out for sure.........Disconnect your AC for two weeks. Car and house and office.


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## Meerkat

Frugal_Farmers said:


> That's exactly the point--locals don't want a lot of people to want to live in Alaskan small towns either.


 Well Sonny,they are safe from me ever moving in on em.I can't take cold,heat bad too but is worse for me.And to think I almost moved to the n.west territory.Burrrrrrrr.


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## Meerkat

Sourdough said:


> One way to find out for sure.........Disconnect your AC for two weeks. Car and house and office.


 Know all about that.We were 'after the storm chasers,both Hugo and Andrew everything destroyed.Camped out to work.Realized how wonderful a fan could be.


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## kejmack

tsrwivey said:


> In my completely impartial opinion, east TX. A huge majority of well-armed conservatives, does it get any safer than that?!


AMEN!!! I love Texas.


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## tsrwivey

Sourdough said:


> One way to find out for sure.........Disconnect your AC for two weeks. Car and house and office.


Not doable in my situation. The "office" is respiratory patients who turn ugly colors when they get hot so we keep it at about 62 degrees. A/C is not something I would ever willingly do without. It will be 65 degrees in my house as long as there is any way to keep it there. 

I know you get used to it, in our first house the coolest it ever got was 80 degrees. That was back when we were young, dumb, & didn't care about nothing but being together. We've been married 20 years now & I still love him dearly but there's nothing sexier than him getting the AC back to working. :ignore:


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## tsrwivey

GreyWolf said:


> Yep, you're right. Have you evern noticed how nervous city dweller that visit out here get when they hear people out shooting? Strange.


Hubby built a house out in the country for a vegan from New York. She ended up moving. Don't know if it was the target shooting, deer processing, or fireworks in the neighbor's backyard, but apparently it didn't work out. We got a kick out of the things she'd say though.


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## weedygarden

ajsmith said:


> I kinda like where I live, eastern Oregon. As long as you can drive on the road ways your only 60 min. or less from almost anything you want to do. My area is in the high desert, mostly juniper trees and sage brush, but I drive 20 to 30 min. in any direction and I'm in big time forest. We have lots of creeks, streams, rivers, lakes and reservoirs. Lots of deer (had six bedding down in the back yard last fall), Elk (brother had two run through his yard yesterday) Antelope and to the southeast about 40 min. we have black bear. For water fowl we have several kinds of duck, Canadian Geese. For upland birds we have pheasant, grouse, quail, dove, several more I can think of off the top of my head. For fish we have, salmon, trout (several kinds), bass and white fish (probably more but I'm not a real big fan of fishing). For other recreation we have some of the best snow skiing, water skiing, camping, off roading, hiking...
> 
> We have lots of cattle ranches and a few sheep, and our town is surrounded by farms (wheat, grass, and seed crops, onions and carrots mostly).
> 
> I guess I'm babbling along here.........sorry
> 
> I think I'm going to have to sit down and make a list of all the things I take for granted. Anyway, I like it here because I know the area, it comfortable, it's home.......


How many nuclear plants are around you and where are you relative to potential wind drafts from nuclear plants?

What are water sources?


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## weedygarden

tsrwivey said:


> In my completely impartial opinion, east TX. A huge majority of well-armed conservatives, does it get any safer than that?!


And are there nuclear plants in Texas that might be upwind from you?


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## kejmack

Sourdough said:


> How would they treat each other if there was no air conditioning ever again for say 5 years.......?


People lived here long before there was AC and lots of people still live around here without it. My neighbor told me that he didn't have it when he was growing up here. He only installed it three years ago!


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## Sourdough

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Question:
Originally Posted by Sourdough 
How would they treat each other if there was no air conditioning ever again for say 5 years.......?

Your Answer:
People lived here long before there was AC and lots of people still live around here without it. My neighbor told me that he didn't have it when he was growing up here. He only installed it three years ago!

Sounds like America Needs to make those Air Conditioners Illegal, if they are just not really needed, that way we can be more energy independent...:dunno:

This weeks weather in "Paradise"..........http://www.accuweather.com/us/ak/hope/99605/forecast-details.asp


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## weedygarden

*Where is the SAFEST place to live???*



weedygarden said:


> Given all the turmoil that goes on in our nation and world, I am wondering if someone know of a study or theory out there of where the safest places are to locate in the U.S., or even the world, and on the other hand, what states, areas, or countries are best to stay away from. And why? Some states might have good areas and others to avoid.
> 
> Can we keep quoting and filling in this list with ideas? Maybe we will come up with the perfect place to move to.
> 
> •Alabama
> •Alaska
> •Arizona--just too darned hot and an issue of not enough water. Too hot to really grow food in some parts.
> 
> •Arkansas
> •California
> •Colorado
> •Connecticut
> •Delaware
> •District of Columbia
> •Florida
> •Georgia
> •Guam
> •Hawaii
> •Idaho
> •Illinois
> •Indiana
> •Iowa
> •Kansas
> •Kentucky
> •Louisiana
> •Maine
> •Maryland
> •Massachusetts
> •Michigan
> •Minnesota
> •Mississippi
> •Missouri
> •Montana
> •Nebraska
> •Nevada
> •New Hampshire
> •New Jersey
> •New Mexico
> •New York
> •North Carolina
> •North Dakota--can have horribly cold winters, but grows good wheat.
> •Ohio
> •Oklahoma
> •Oregon
> •Pennsylvania
> •Puerto Rico--soooo hot and muggy in the summer
> •Rhode Island
> •South Carolina
> •South Dakota
> •Tennessee
> •Texas
> •Utah
> •Vermont
> •Virginia
> •Virgin Islands
> •Washington
> •West Virginia
> •Wisconsin
> •Wyoming


*EARTHQUAKES:* Southern California is a great place to vacation if you like beaches and all those amusement parks, but the earthquakes make it a no-no for place to live for me. Where are other fault lines that could cause some big problems? I know the fault in southern Missouri is not good and is overdue for activity.

*HURRICANES:* The "South" is out due to hurricanes. That would include Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas. What about the eastern seaboard? Isn't that affected by hurricanes also? The Carolinas, Virginia, more?

*NUCLEAR DANGER:* Relative to all the nuclear plants in the nation and world, where would be the safest place to live if they all went to crap? I actually think we would all be toast if that happened, but in the meantime, where?

*Other Dangers?* Tornadoes, blizzards, ???


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## Sourdough

weedygarden said:


> *NUCLEAR DANGER:* Relative to all the nuclear plants in the nation and world, where would be the safest place to live if they all went to crap? I actually think we would all be toast if that happened, but in the meantime, where????


Nearest Nuclear plant to me is in America...........Hehehehehe:wave:


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## tsrwivey

Sourdough said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Question:
> Originally Posted by Sourdough
> How would they treat each other if there was no air conditioning ever again for say 5 years.......?
> 
> Your Answer:
> People lived here long before there was AC and lots of people still live around here without it. My neighbor told me that he didn't have it when he was growing up here. He only installed it three years ago!
> 
> Sounds like America Needs to make those Air Conditioners Illegal, if they are just not really needed, that way we can be more energy independent...:dunno:
> 
> This weeks weather in "Paradise"..........Hope, AK 99605 Today's Weather Forecast - AccuWeather.com


So if something is not necessary according to your logic it should be illegal? Wow, I bet crowds of folks are wanting you to run for office.


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## Sourdough

tsrwivey said:


> So if something is not necessary according to your logic it should be illegal? Wow, I bet crowds of folks are wanting you to run for office.


You sure got sensitive quickly, for someone who professes to not need air conditioning........Hehehehehe


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## dirtgrrl

Have to disagree about Arizona being too hot and dry. Some parts are but you can grow year round in many places too. As long as your crops are day neutral (don't require either long or short days to trigger flowering) you can garden by temperatures. Squash, beans, corn, etc. in the summer, and cole crops in the winter. If you look hard there are many places without surface water but with the water table so shallow wells may be hand dug. You have to be away from the managed water areas (Prescott-Phoenix-Tuscon corridor) but that's where I'd rather be anyway... Added advantage to these outlying areas is that there's plenty of game (along with feral cattle), no nuke plants, and little to no agriculture or other industry to poison the groundwater. I imagine New Mexico and Colorado have places like this too.

Yesterday it was 107 degrees and 28% humidity in Phoenix, but 15 degrees cooler at one of my "hideouts". So I'd say that while there are many places to avoid, there's probably no one best place, and that there are great places scattered out everywhere. You just have to look at what's most important to you.


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## weedygarden

*And the safest place to live is ?*

Alaksa has had its fair share of earthquakes, hasn't it? And since you "can see Russia from your window", that makes it not safe, right?


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## Sourdough

weedygarden said:


> Alaksa has had its fair share of earthquakes, hasn't it? And since you "can see Russia from your window", that makes it not safe, right?


Yes, it really is awful. Hehehehehe....... Only real problem with Alaska is the lack of women. But it is 67* and not a cloud in the sky. And, I am just ready to leave out the back door for a day walk in the untrod wilderness, Where I drink the water straight from the creeks, never see a human unless I go off my mountain.....oh'yes I had fresh red salmon for breakfast and yes it was free for the catching.


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## Jimmy24

I have several places I would love to be in besides Mississippi, but I have to say it's very hard to beat Ole Miss.

We have an abundance of water, though we are going thru a drought of sorts right now, we still have lots of water. And water IMO is the #1 thing to live somewhere.
We have a very low tax basis compared to other states.
We have probably more counties with no building codes/restrictions than most states.
We have an abundance of wood to make lumber out of.
We have very mild winters.
We do have VERY hot and humid summers.
We have a long growing season, in fact really 4 growing seasons. Early spring Feb-April, Summer Mar-July and Late summer Aug-Dec. only slow for 2-3 months out of the year and have hot houses going then....:flower:
We have hurricanes. I have been here thru all of them since Betty in '65 including Camille '69, Fredrick '79, Elana '85, Georges '98 and Katrina '05. yep they are dangerous and a VERY BIG PIA, but made it thru all of them, with and without damage. I would not live within 30 miles of the coast anymore (moved in '90) it's much more likely to have damage. You can run from them. They WILL teach you to prepare....
We have a very down home bunch of people here. We like our independence.
We are hurting on jobs at the moment, but that's everywhere.
We have inexpenisive Real estate wise than most anywhere else. Oh I know it can be bought cheaper else where, but there is usually a catch, no water, HOT/COLD, no power etc. 
We don't have any restrictive gun laws.
We have lots of fishing and hunting. MS is the highest deer population per acre there is. Salt and freshwater fishing abound.
Yep, we are slow to change, but we do.

Now having said all that I love AZ's high deserts, CA's Serria Nevadas and The Redwood Curtain, hardwood forest of AR and MO. 

But guess I'll have to hang in here.

Jimmy


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## semperscott

East Texas is a great for raising crops, plenty of rivers and lakes for fishinging, lots of trees for building and/or firewood, and more guns per square mile than just about any other place in America.


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## tsrwivey

Sourdough said:


> You sure got sensitive quickly, for someone who professes to not need air conditioning........Hehehehehe


Not sensitive, just not following the "not necessary=make it illegal" line of thinking. We'll fare much better in Texas without AC than in Alaska with no heat.  I was thinking "need" as in "necessary for life". There are many things I do not need but have no intentions of doing without until necessary, then I will deal with it.


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## tsrwivey

weedygarden said:


> *EARTHQUAKES:* HURRICANES:[/B][/U] The "South" is out due to hurricanes. That would include Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas. What about the eastern seaboard? Isn't that affected by hurricanes also? The Carolinas, Virginia, more?
> 
> Hurricanes quickly lose force once they hit landfall. I live about 300 miles from the coast & all we get from the hurricanes is rain, thunderstorms, & evacuees.:dunno:


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## Biscuit

weedygarden said:


> Given all the turmoil that goes on in our nation and world, I am wondering if someone know of a study or theory out there of where the safest places are to locate in the U.S., or even the world, and on the other hand, what states, areas, or countries are best to stay away from. And why? Some states might have good areas and others to avoid.


You can't seriously think that it's possible to generalize, and lump an entire states' worth of people and geography into any ONE category? Just like groups of people, you can divide them by gender, race, background, and there will be *some* shared characteristics... but by and by, all humans are individuals and all areas have their own flavor and uniqueness.

I roll my eyes when people (who apparently have never set foot in any part of California, north or south) claim "California is out because of all those earthquakes." While southern CA has some earthquakes, something like 9 million people seem to handle it just fine. My reasons for not wanting to live in southern CA would be...those other 9 million people.

I live outside of Sacramento, in northern CA, and grew up in Sacramento. The last time I felt an earthquake was a VERY small one, and that was in the mid-70's, 35+ years ago. So please, people...enough with the "OMG, earthquakes!" I'd be more afraid of tornadoes, which are happening even here now.

This is just an example, to exemplify that you can't judge an entire state by a generalization.

Do your homework, visit the places you're considering. And if you're considering CA, know that we're not all "beaches and movie stars." Our state is the same size as Switzerland, big enough to contain 5 states. In fact, we contain another state The state of Jefferson.

And then there's Texas. Texas is like it's own COUNTRY for crying' out loud! The east is part of the old south, the west is part of the "frontier", ad in the middle you've got everything in between (and not to mention some damn fine BBQ). 268,601 square miles...I dare you to fit ALL of it into just ONE category.

Do your homework, visit the places you're considering.


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## DJgang

Sourdough said:


> One way to find out for sure.........Disconnect your AC for two weeks. Car and house and office.


While I've always had the convience of AC, it's not hard to figure out that we in the SOUTH survived without AC. mother Nature has a way of preparing us and it's called Spring. slowly, ever so gently the weather warms up and before you know it, it's 100 degrees with 90% humidity, people work in that every single day.....we could live without it. :congrat:

Anyway, heat is not a reason not to live in the south. We have four seasons, we can grow lots....

Just sitting in the heat won't kill ya, but sitting in the cold can, that's my thoughts.


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## ZoomZoom

DJgang said:


> Just sitting in the heat won't kill ya, but sitting in the cold can, that's my thoughts.


You can dress for the cold but can't dress enough for the heat.


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## Woody

DJgang said:


> While I've always had the convience of AC, it's not hard to figure out that we in the SOUTH survived without AC. mother Nature has a way of preparing us and it's called Spring. slowly, ever so gently the weather warms up and before you know it, it's 100 degrees with 90% humidity, people work in that every single day.....we could live without it.


I'm trying the no AC in the main house this year, so far so good. I do have a unit running in the bedroom though so it is not a total lack of AC. Reason for the bedroom unit? My black lab, Wendy is 11 1/2 and has enough issues w/out overheating being added to them. I lock her in there while at work and when I'm home she'll visit for a short spell but then wait at the door to be let in. Let me tell you, 76 feels FRIGID when you step in there on summer days. I turn it off at night and just have a fan blowing cool air in.

You can become accustomed to extremes of weather. When I lived in upstate NY I logged and worked outside on other jobs. Sure, it was hot or cold but I was able to be comfortable while others could not.


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## power

DJgang said:


> While I've always had the convience of AC, it's not hard to figure out that we in the SOUTH survived without AC. mother Nature has a way of preparing us and it's called Spring. slowly, ever so gently the weather warms up and before you know it, it's 100 degrees with 90% humidity, people work in that every single day.....we could live without it. :congrat:
> 
> Anyway, heat is not a reason not to live in the south. We have four seasons, we can grow lots....
> 
> Just sitting in the heat won't kill ya, but sitting in the cold can, that's my thoughts.


I live in the middle of Ms. It gets pretty warm in the summer and the humidity is always high. The next week it will be 99 or better. Already had a lot of 100+ days.
I never use AC in all of the house. Sometimes I will turn the AC on in the bedroom for a few hours during the night. I never run it during the day.
If a person will use the spring time to get used to the heat it makes the summer more liveable.
Cold is a much bigger danger than heat. I just can't understand why people will live in a place that has snow and ice that stays on the ground longer than a few hours.


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## River33

We live down in Southern Louisiana. You can grow food just about year round here. Between the hunting for wild pig, deer, squirrel, pigeon, dove, crabbing, crawfish, frogs and plenty of cat fish can be caught using trout lines.

I would love to take a course in learning to recognize the wild edible plants down here. Lots of blackberries, elderberries, mulberries, wild onion and dandilions. It does get mighty hot and humid in the summer though. And hurricane season is not my favorite. But, like my husbands says, his family has been down here for many generations and the worst a hurricane has done ever is blown part of the front porch off. Stay safe everyone!


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## power

River33 said:


> We live down in Southern Louisiana. You can grow food just about year round here. Between the hunting for wild pig, deer, squirrel, pigeon, dove, crabbing, crawfish, frogs and plenty of cat fish can be caught using trout lines.
> 
> I would love to take a course in learning to recognize the wild edible plants down here. Lots of blackberries, elderberries, mulberries, wild onion and dandilions. It does get mighty hot and humid in the summer though. And hurricane season is not my favorite. But, like my husbands says, his family has been down here for many generations and the worst a hurricane has done ever is blown part of the front porch off. Stay safe everyone!


Beautiful country and friendly people. Makes the heat bearable.


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## TheAnt

Im thinking maybe the safest place to live is furthest away from anyone else. Your greatest threat is the folks you DONT know. Either get to know your neighbors and build trust or get away from people. 

Personally... Im not sure I like people all that much... at least not most of them  thats bad, huh? It would explain why I live outside the mound instead of with the rest of the colony.


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## power

TheAnt said:


> Im thinking maybe the safest place to live is furthest away from anyone else. Your greatest threat is the folks you DONT know. Either get to know your neighbors and build trust or get away from people.
> 
> Personally... Im not sure I like people all that much... at least not most of them  thats bad, huh? It would explain why I live outside the mound instead of with the rest of the colony.


I was born and raised in south eastern Ok. It is possible to buy up small farms compeletly surrounded by Weyerhauser lumber company. No neighbors in miles. The only thing is many small farms are being bought up for growing cash crops.


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## Sourdough

WELL, it looks like we are all happy living where we are living. Hell, it don't get much goooooder than that. Me happy, you happy, we all be happy. Whoopee.:2thumb:


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## weedygarden

*Seriously?*

I think everyone lives where they want to or where they can, and it seems that there is little concern about how safe it is where people live.

I thought it would be interesting to see if we as a group could work together to determine where it would be best to live, considering potential dangers, and to determine where we should stay away from. There seems to be little interest in that here.


----------



## power

Most people have to try to make the best of where they are living.
Few people will ever get the chance to choose where they really want to live.
Make the best of what you have.


----------



## weedygarden

power said:


> Most people have to try to make the best of where they are living.
> Few people will ever get the chance to choose where they really want to live.
> Make the best of what you have.


Some people do have a chance to choose where they live. I do make the most of where I am living, however, I am in a position to move and I think others might be at some time also. So it is not about making do, it is about trying to know where to go and where not to go.


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## ZoomZoom

weedygarden said:


> Some people do have a chance to choose where they live. I do make the most of where I am living, however, I am in a position to move and I think others might be at some time also. So it is not about making do, it is about trying to know where to go and where not to go.


I'd guess the "safest" place isn't the most 'practical" place for all the aforementioned reasons (climate, growing etc.).

Geographically, I'd avoid:
- Anything that's within 200 miles of an ocean (too many people and potential weather issues)
- Anything within 50-100 miles of Mexico.
- Anything within 20 miles of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers (there's exceptions but watch for flood prone areas)
- Anything within 30-50 miles of a decent sized city.

Geographically, I'd like:
- 4 distinct seasons. Yep, snow included. Most people will go for warmer climates so you'll be a bit more isolated.
- Varied terrain. Hills give better views/look-out points, hollows have streams. Homestead can be somewhere in between.
- Mix of fields and woods. You're going to need both for gardening and wood.
- Relatively moderate elevation. Too high or too low has its problems.

That said, areas in the mid-west, mid-atlantic or other rural areas are good bets.

As for safety, it's what you make of it. If you're fortified and/or concealed, that's safer then being in the right geographical location.


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## Ezmerelda

tsrwivey said:


> Some folks around here do live without AC. I reckon folks with swimming pools, ponds, or lake houses would have a lot of new found friends.  Lots of people work in the Texas heat everyday, they say you get used to it in a week or two. Folks live in Africa & South America without AC, I reckon we'd live too. I don't see that being too big of a problem.


I lived in E. Texas without A/C or central heat for 18 months when I was a kid...the summers reached over 110, and that winter, it snowed TWO feet! It was a crazy year. But Tsrwivey is correct - humans are very adaptable. At first, it was a hard adjustment, but after a while, it was just life.

After we moved into an air-conditioned house, we all complained that it was too cold!

As for refrigeration, old southerners knew that evaporation is your friend. Wet towels, terra cotta bowls, dangling buckets in the well, are just a few ways to keep things cool without electricity or freon.


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## gypsysue

bczoom said:


> I'd guess the "safest" place isn't the most 'practical" place for all the aforementioned reasons (climate, growing etc.).
> 
> Geographically, I'd avoid:
> - Anything that's within 200 miles of an ocean (too many people and potential weather issues)
> - Anything within 50-100 miles of Mexico.
> - Anything within 20 miles of the Mississippi and Missouri rivers (there's exceptions but watch for flood prone areas)
> - Anything within 30-50 miles of a decent sized city.
> 
> Geographically, I'd like:
> - 4 distinct seasons. Yep, snow included. Most people will go for warmer climates so you'll be a bit more isolated.
> - Varied terrain. Hills give better views/look-out points, hollows have streams. Homestead can be somewhere in between.
> - Mix of fields and woods. You're going to need both for gardening and wood.
> - Relatively moderate elevation. Too high or too low has its problems.
> 
> That said, areas in the mid-west, mid-atlantic or other rural areas are good bets.
> 
> As for safety, it's what you make of it. If you're fortified and/or concealed, that's safer then being in the right geographical location.


This is the closest I've seen to a good answer to the original question.

Some people mentioned nuclear power plants (to avoid living near or downwind of) but people who worry about things like that should also consider where the thousands of missile silos are located (since they're potential targets for incoming missiles as well) plus any other possible target in the area.

The heat vs. air conditioning debate was hilarious! Someone said it would be easier to be without air conditioning in Texas than without heat in Alaska! lol The people in Alaska just toss another chunk of free wood in the stove! At least that's what we do here in Montana! Top that, Texans! 

Fun thread. Keep it going!


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## killerchickens95

tsrwivey said:


> We'd be happy to have you!


check out the I am America map,it shows the estimated water level rise and shows the cities that are most likely to still be here when !#@# hits the fan!!


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## kejmack

The safest place is going to be far away from cities. The farther the better. More than gas tank distance is ideal.


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## Calebra

Besides above mentioned factors --you don't want be anywhere near millitary priority targets. Army bases,nuclear storage and facilities.

I think a huge part that people underestimate and is sort of hard to put on paper is people living where you want to be. Their lifestyle and attitudes,their views and such. All factors being the same their is a huge difference between people in Boston and Seattle for instance. I am not even talking about the way people in the major cities act vs the lifestyle in a small town. 
I lived all all this country but when I decided to settle down I took a 3 month long round trip from the port of Seattle to Arcadia park in Main . Camped,met the folk and tried to figure out what fits me and what not. Can't beat first hand experience when you are trying to compare places. In my humble opinion Idaho and Montana are tops followed by the Dakotas. Alaska would rock but I have an elderly parent and want to be within 60 miles from a good hospital,plus the seismic activity and russian border make me nervous.
Best thing to do is sit and write down your requirements and then narrow the list down. Then meet some people around the parts that come up as a possibility.Believe me it'll become a very short list very soon lol.


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## tsrwivey

gypsysue said:


> The heat vs. air conditioning debate was hilarious! Someone said it would be easier to be without air conditioning in Texas than without heat in Alaska! lol The people in Alaska just toss another chunk of free wood in the stove! At least that's what we do here in Montana! Top that, Texans!
> 
> Fun thread. Keep it going!


We can garden year round in most of Texas & the south. Never tried it but digging frozen ground must be tough, that is if the dirt can be found under the 50 feet of snow!


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## HarleyRider

*Safest place to live...*

I hear that the moon is pretty nice this time or year. Bring your own air, food, and water - a prepper should have no problem with this.


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## Sourdough

tsrwivey said:


> We can garden year round in most of Texas & the south. Never tried it but digging frozen ground must be tough, that is if the dirt can be found under the 50 feet of snow!


Not a problem; I just slide the window open and tip-over a Caribou, Moose, or Dall Sheep either in the side yard or the sheep are out the back door. Of course there is always the thundering hear of attack geese that can be culled.


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## HozayBuck

*In the words of my Drill Instruter....*

*You don't have to train to be miserable , I live part of the year in E TX and yes it's hot and yes I have AC in both vehicles and my cabin and will until I can't then I'll just do without..lived in MT for almost 40 years and Alaska and in the Mojave desert.. been there done that got the tee shirt... without comforts we will survive... we will adapt... I walk in the early hours... try to do what I need outside early... then I'm inside... if need be I can handle the heat... I don't have to but I can!... a wet dog rag and bonnie hat works well...the folks here before we white folk showed up were doing just fine... stayed in the shade during the hottest part of the day...

Life is easier in a warmer area..food grows, fire wood is easy as broken tree limbs.. I've cut a forest of fire wood and when I was younger it was fun..now? not so !!

best place? the place your happy, comfortable, and have good friends and family and a good job... for me , I know even a piss poor gardener like me can grow food... the woods are full of food... the streams , rivers and lakes are full of fish... it's surviving the first couple of years that you need to be thinking about.. things may start out like a "Road Warrior" movie but in time things will settle down.. the MZBG's will die off the hard way...folks will gather in villages again and life will go on... in AK..MT..TX wherever... hot,cold...

Remember you don't have to train to be miserable ... you just need to train to stay alive *


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## gypsysue

Some like it hot, some like it cold. I won't say I love our long, cold winters, but I sure like it better than the triple degree temperatures and even higher heat indexes I'm seeing on the news in the south and east right now! Humidity at any temperature is rough. I hope everyone in those places is finding ways to stay cool, and to keep their pets/livestock cool.

Here's a tidbit from the latest AARP magazine that might be helpful for some folks trying to figure out the best place to live. Of course it depends on your criteria for a good place, but one of ours was "uncrowded"!

POPULATION DENSITY - Residents per square mile

Alabama - 94.4
Alaska - 1.2
Arizona - 56.3
Arkansas - 56
California - 239.1
Colorado - 48.5
Connecticutt - 738.1
D.C. - 9856.5
Delaware - 460.8
Florida - 350.6
Georgia - 168.4
Hawaii - 211.8
Idaho - 19
Illinois - 231.1
Indiana - 181
Iowa - 54.5
Kansas - 34.9
Kentucky - 109.9
Louisiana - 104.9
Maine 0 43.1
Maryland - 594.8
Massachusetts - 839.4
Michigan - 174.8
Minnesota - 66.6
Mississippi - 63.2
Missouri - 87.1
Montana - 6.8
Nebraska - 23.6
New Hampshire - 147
New Jersey - 1195.5
New Mexico - 17
New York - 411.2
North Carolina - 196.1
North Dakota - 9.7
Ohio - 282.3
Oklahoma - 54.7
Oregon - 39.9
Pennsylvania - 283.9
Rhode Island - 1018.1
South Carolina - 153.9
South Dakota - 10.7
Tennessee - 153.9
Texas - 96.3
Utah - 33.6
Vermont - 67.9
Virginia - 202.6
Washington - 101.2
West Virginia - 77.1
Wisconsin - 105
Wyoming 5.8

Just kind of interesting to look it over!


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## goshengirl

weedygarden said:


> I thought it would be interesting to see if we as a group could work together to determine where it would be best to live, considering potential dangers, and to determine where we should stay away from. There seems to be little interest in that here.


weedygarden, I do think your question is an interesting one. Not everyone has the ability to make such a move, but many people do, and your question merits discussion. My problem is that I can't offer anything specific - just some general thoughts that come to mind.

Seems to me places with large tracts of land would be the safest (like Kejmack said, more than a tank of gas away from cities). Group/mob mentality being what it is, it would be safest to be where the population density is the lowest - in other words, having a big piece of land doesn't mean anything if it's close to an urban center or surrounded by smaller pieces of land. The part of the US that has such low population density (and long distances between cities) is in the west.

There are also fewer nuclear facilities in the west. As for natural disasters, I'm not sure there's anyplace that isn't at risk for at least _something_ - so that's an individual decision. Some folks would never want to live in tornado alley, but others do fine with their storm shelters. Some folks would never live in an area susceptible to earthquakes, or near the Yellowstone caldera, but others feel those potential risks are minor compared to what they might find somewhere else (like hurricanes).

Other considerations would include personal health issues - like some folks having severe allergies, and some locations typically high in pollen (not that allergies will kill you, but they can make life mighty miserable). I personally wouldn't want to live where it's hot/humid, because of my asthma, others wouldn't have that concern.

Besides safety issues, I'd consider economic and liberty issues, too. I'd want a state that was typically high in property rights and low in property taxes.

So I'd say I'm looking at the Dakotas, western Nebraska, western Kansas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and possibly Utah, base on my primary concern of population density. But I'd need to look further into property rights and property taxes.


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## weedygarden

goshengirl said:


> weedygarden, I do think your question is an interesting one. Not everyone has the ability to make such a move, but many people do, and your question merits discussion. My problem is that I can't offer anything specific - just some general thoughts that come to mind.
> 
> Seems to me places with large tracts of land would be the safest (like Kejmack said, more than a tank of gas away from cities). Group/mob mentality being what it is, it would be safest to be where the population density is the lowest - in other words, having a big piece of land doesn't mean anything if it's close to an urban center or surrounded by smaller pieces of land. The part of the US that has such low population density (and long distances between cities) is in the west.
> 
> There are also fewer nuclear facilities in the west. As for natural disasters, I'm not sure there's anyplace that isn't at risk for at least _something_ - so that's an individual decision. Some folks would never want to live in tornado alley, but others do fine with their storm shelters. Some folks would never live in an area susceptible to earthquakes, or near the Yellowstone caldera, but others feel those potential risks are minor compared to what they might find somewhere else (like hurricanes).
> 
> Other considerations would include personal health issues - like some folks having severe allergies, and some locations typically high in pollen (not that allergies will kill you, but they can make life mighty miserable). I personally wouldn't want to live where it's hot/humid, because of my asthma, others wouldn't have that concern.
> 
> Besides safety issues, I'd consider economic and liberty issues, too. I'd want a state that was typically high in property rights and low in property taxes.
> 
> So I'd say I'm looking at the Dakotas, western Nebraska, western Kansas, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and possibly Utah, base on my primary concern of population density. But I'd need to look further into property rights and property taxes.


Thank you for a thoughtful response. I totally agree with what you are saying.

GypsySue posted good information, citing population per square mile per state. Thank you for that.

Goshengirl and Gypsysue, you both are talking about areas that I have been considering. They are not that far from where I currently live, are areas that I have traveled to or have already lived. The idea about property rights and property taxes is extremely important.

South Dakota does not have income tax, but it has property taxes for state revenue. Someone who is retired, with low income, but perhaps has a good estate may be challenged to cough up lots of money each year for property taxes. However, it is not that densely populated and is an area where people look out for each other, in my experience.

I do not know about the other states.


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## gypsysue

In Montana, if you're low income, you can get property tax discounts up to 80% off your tax bill (no age requirement). If you're 62 and over, you can get the whole thing refunded on your state income taxes. Our state income taxes are reasonable (low-income people pay little or none, same as federal), and we have no state sales tax. If you buy something that's, say, $1.99, that's all you pay. No tax on it.


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## weedygarden

gypsysue said:


> In Montana, if you're low income, you can get property tax discounts up to 80% off your tax bill (no age requirement). If you're 62 and over, you can get the whole thing refunded on your state income taxes. Our state income taxes are reasonable (low-income people pay little or none, same as federal), and we have no state sales tax. If you buy something that's, say, $1.99, that's all you pay. No tax on it.


This is good information. I know that property taxes are reduced for older people in certain municipalities. This is worth researching. Thanks!


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## Turtle

Lemme tell ya, if there is one thing that Maryland has in abundance, it is taxes. And liberals. And drugs, STDs, sprawling ghettos, overly intrusive laws, illegal immigrants.... wait a minute, why the Hell do I live here? 

Besides those things, which one could easily get away from my moving to either the Eastern Shore or to the hills of western Maryland, what I see as the two biggest problems that this state has are: 1 - Population density and, 2 - A target-rich environment for terrorists. The vast majority of the Federal government exists within an hour drive of my house. One low-yield nuke and we're toast.

As I said, the western part of the state is nice, but you still have to live in a state that is historically Blue and liberal. And if you are gonna live that far away from civilization, you may as well move a hair further west into West By-God Virginia. WV is everything western MD is, but better and more of it.

SO, cross Maryland and Northern Virginia (NoVA) off of your lists.


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## kejmack

I moved to TX from Northern Virginia 2 years ago and LOVE it here! Heat? What heat? It's all what you are used to. I go riding two or three times a week in 100 degree heat. Once you are conditioned to it, it isn't a problem.


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## weedygarden

Turtle said:


> Lemme tell ya, if there is one thing that Maryland has in abundance, it is taxes. And liberals. And drugs, STDs, sprawling ghettos, overly intrusive laws, illegal immigrants.... wait a minute, why the Hell do I live here?
> 
> Besides those things, which one could easily get away from my moving to either the Eastern Shore or to the hills of western Maryland, what I see as the two biggest problems that this state has are: 1 - Population density and, 2 - A target-rich environment for terrorists. The vast majority of the Federal government exists within an hour drive of my house. One low-yield nuke and we're toast.
> 
> As I said, the western part of the state is nice, but you still have to live in a state that is historically Blue and liberal. And if you are gonna live that far away from civilization, you may as well move a hair further west into West By-God Virginia. WV is everything western MD is, but better and more of it.
> 
> SO, cross Maryland and Northern Virginia (NoVA) off of your lists.


Thanks. I had already really considered that east of the Mississippi was for the most part not for me. I went to school in Washington, DC. While there, I traveled to Maryland and Virginia. The landscape there is interesting, but way too many people for me if SHTF.

I think Kentucky, Tennessee and many other states on that side would have lots of possibilities. I think the density of populations is something that I stay away from, but there are probably many places with lush growth, lots of trees, good growing season, moderate weather, and geography that would be conducive to building in places that could be private and easily hidden. I know that not all areas are densely populated, but there are many more people there than out west. Look at Wyoming--5.8 and Montana--6.8. Virginia--202.6, Maryland--594.8. Considering my penchant for wanting to get out of the city, trying to find a safer place to live, and being an extreme introvert, yeah, Virginia and Maryland are not places that I would consider moving to.


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## Turtle

weedygarden said:


> Thanks. I had already really considered that east of the Mississippi was for the most part not for me. I went to school in Washington, DC. While there, I traveled to Maryland and Virginia. The landscape there is interesting, but way too many people for me if SHTF.
> 
> I think Kentucky, Tennessee and many other states on that side would have lots of possibilities. I think the density of populations is something that I stay away from, but there are probably many places with lush growth, lots of trees, good growing season, moderate weather, and geography that would be conducive to building in places that could be private and easily hidden. I know that not all areas are densely populated, but there are many more people there than out west. Look at Wyoming--5.8 and Montana--6.8. Virginia--202.6, Maryland--594.8. Considering my penchant for wanting to get out of the city, trying to find a safer place to live, and being an extreme introvert, yeah, Virginia and Maryland are not places that I would consider moving to.


Well, Virginia actually isn't too bad. You have to remember when you look at those population density numbers, that those numbers don't reflect the fact that about 70% of Virginia's population is in 3 or 4 cities; Richmond, Virginia Beach, and NoVA. The majority of the state is pretty open and free. When I lived there, I was living in Roanoke (which is a pretty small city) and working 40 miles west of there in Christiansburg, which is a tiny city that pretty much just supports Virginia Tech, in Blacksburg. That was a BEAUTIFUL area, the people were all very friendly, close enough to a decent sized town to be able to run to Walmart for supplies, but still very open and not heavily populated. I would move back there in a heartbeat, except that there are no jobs out there in which I would be interested.

The downside to all of this, is that one still must put up with the government of that state; being that a sizable chunk of voters live in the liberal cities, The Commonwealth is trending slightly more liberal in recent years.


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## gypsysue

That's true, Turtle. Most of the population in those states is concentrated in cities. There are great rural places to find good hidey-holes, and still be close to stores and services. I'd look for a place off the main highway, maybe 2 or 3 turns on small county roads or even gravel roads.


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## Meerkat

I got a feeling where we are is up shtf creek.But too late to move now.
Our only hope is most of them kill off each other before they get to us,but thats not logical since we are so outnumbered by non preppers.Maybe we can stay at one of the gulags'I mean base's here when the zombies start coming out. Frugal swears FEMA will help me.


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## DJgang

Meerkat said:


> I got a feeling where we are is up shtf creek.But too late to move now.
> Our only hope is most of them kill off each other before they get to us,but thats not logical since we are so outnumbered by non preppers.Maybe we can stay at one of the gulags'I mean base's here when the zombies start coming out. Frugal swears FEMA will help me.


They'll line up in FEMA lines, think Katrina. hide and let 'em have it all.


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## weedygarden

*Nuclear power plants*








united-states-nuclear-reactors-map

I found this map of active and decommissioned power plants in the US.

The Rocky Mountain corridor looks safest for having no active plants, but fallout blowing in could still be an issue. There could still be other issues, but this is one thing to consider.

I have copied many pictures in my life, but I can't figure out how to insert one here. Can anyone help me? Maybe it showed up.


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## weedygarden

*State Tax Burdens*

State Tax Burden (sales, income, property)
The same weight is applied to each category
lowest to highest (best to worst, most favorable to least favorable)

1 Wyoming
2 Florida
3 South Dakota
4 Delaware
5 West Virginia
6 Nevada
7 Kentucky
8 New Hampshire
9 Arkansas
10 Michigan
11 New Mexico
12 North Dakota
13 Colorado14 Alaska
15 Tennessee
16 Indiana
17 Pennsylvania
18 Ohio
19 Hawaii
20 Texas
21 Montana
22 Oklahoma
23 Mississippi
24 Utah
25 Louisiana
26 Alabama
27 Idaho
28 Georgia
29 Virginia
30 Arizona
31 Maryland
32 Maine
33 Washington
34 North Carolina
35 South Carolina
36 Massachusetts
37 Oregon
38 Connecticut
39 Wisconsin
40 D.C.
41 Missouri
42 Iowa
43 Nebraska
44 Kansas
45 New Jersey
46 Minnesota
47 Rhode Island
48 Illinois
49 Vermont
50 New York
51 California

The research shows that the upper plains and Rocky Mountains are some of the better places to live relative to tax burdens.

Wyoming? Is Wyoming the safest or best state to live in? The challenge would be for some to find work there. Cold winters, lots of wind (wind energy), and remote from the coasts. But maybe that is a good thing.


----------



## goshengirl

For what it's worth, we bought agricultural land in MT a number of years ago, and here's why we decided on MT:

We knew we wanted a beautiful western state with a lot of land and independent-minded people (the fewer the better  ). This is for our retirement (we prefered investing directly in land rather than trying to make money with IRAs/stocks to purchase land later). We settled on MT, WY, ID, and UT, and we were open to SD, too. We researched a lot of land for sale on the internet, and found as a _general _rule we could get more land for our $ in MT than in the other states. Then we took a family trip circling through all those states except UT, looking at land. We found that the trend of more land for the $ in MT to hold true.

One man in WY explained that WY is so dry that much of the land is on a municipal irrigation system, and that's why the cost is high. I'm certainly no expert on this, but that's something for you to look into in WY.

We ended up buying 160 acres of MT prairie, off-grid, down 26 miles of gravel road (it cost less than 20 acres in the mountains). At the time we really didn't know much about self-sustainability, and now we see a glaring problem in our choice of land - an absolute lack of a wood source. Not to mention exposure. And a dependence on well water. But we have no regrets, as we've leased out the land to a local farmer, and that income has carried us through a couple rough financial years.

I will say, you mentioned a place where neighbors take care of their own - well, we've been blown away by that. I swear, the folks up there in remote MT are more connected to their neighbors within a 20 mile radius than we ever were with the people on our suburban street. We have been absolutely blessed with good, salt-of-the-earth country neighbors in MT - and I'm sure you'd find that in WY too. I think when it comes to that, you probably can't go wrong in any of the states you're considering.

I appreciate the info you're posting, and your thought process. We won't be selling our MT land, but if we're ever in a position to buy land again, we're still open to the same states...


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## Sourdough

weedygarden said:


> State Tax Burden (sales, income, property)
> The same weight is applied to each category
> lowest to highest (best to worst, most favorable to least favorable)
> 
> 1 Wyoming
> 2 Florida
> 3 South Dakota
> 4 Delaware
> 5 West Virginia
> 6 Nevada
> 7 Kentucky
> 8 New Hampshire
> 9 Arkansas
> 10 Michigan
> 11 New Mexico
> 12 North Dakota
> 13 Colorado14 Alaska
> 15 Tennessee
> 16 Indiana
> 17 Pennsylvania
> 18 Ohio
> 19 Hawaii
> 20 Texas
> 21 Montana
> 22 Oklahoma
> 23 Mississippi
> 24 Utah
> 25 Louisiana
> 26 Alabama
> 27 Idaho
> 28 Georgia
> 29 Virginia
> 30 Arizona
> 31 Maryland
> 32 Maine
> 33 Washington
> 34 North Carolina
> 35 South Carolina
> 36 Massachusetts
> 37 Oregon
> 38 Connecticut
> 39 Wisconsin
> 40 D.C.
> 41 Missouri
> 42 Iowa
> 43 Nebraska
> 44 Kansas
> 45 New Jersey
> 46 Minnesota
> 47 Rhode Island
> 48 Illinois
> 49 Vermont
> 50 New York
> 51 California
> 
> The research shows that the upper plains and Rocky Mountains are some of the better places to live relative to tax burdens.
> 
> Wyoming? Is Wyoming the safest or best state to live in? The challenge would be for some to find work there. Cold winters, lots of wind (wind energy), and remote from the coasts. But maybe that is a good thing.


Where did you get this information........??? The reason I ask is: That Alaska is the "ONLY" state that is so wealthy that we give free money to every resident. It is called the Alaska Permenent Fund Dividend. We have NO state income tax, No state sales tax, I pay NO property/real estate tax, I get a free hunting, fishing, trapping license from the Great state of Alaska. My heat is free, my water is free, my waste disposal is free. We have NO zoning, NO building restrictions, NO building permits, I get to "Dip Net" 300 pounds of salmon per year, get subsidence Caribou, subsistence Moose, Dall Sheep & Mt. Goats are in the back yard.

42 years ago I "VOTED" the single most important vote I ever cast. I voted with my feet, and moved my ass from the lower 48 to the Great State of Alaska.


----------



## weedygarden

Sourdough said:


> Where did you get this information........??? The reason I ask is: That Alaska is the "ONLY" state that is so wealthy that we give free money to every resident. It is called the Alaska Permenent Fund Dividend. We have NO state income tax, No state sales tax, I pay NO property/real estate tax, I get a free hunting, fishing, trapping license from the Great state of Alaska. My heat is free, my water is free, my waste disposal is free. We have NO zoning, NO building restrictions, NO building permits, I get to "Dip Net" 300 pounds of salmon per year, get subsidence Caribou, subsistence Moose, Dall Sheep & Mt. Goats are in the back yard.
> 
> 42 years ago I "VOTED" the single most important vote I ever cast. I voted with my feet, and moved my ass from the lower 48 to the Great State of Alaska.


State Tax Burden - Modern Survival Blog - surviving uncertain times

I realize as soon as I saw your question that I should have posted this information and to say that it is not verified. I just took it as gospel and it may not be accurate. My bad. Perhaps this information can be found somewhere else.


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## Sourdough

weedygarden said:


> State Tax Burden - Modern Survival Blog - surviving uncertain times
> 
> I realize as soon as I saw your question that I should have posted this information and to say that it is not verified. I just took it as gospel and it may not be accurate. My bad. Perhaps this information can be found somewhere else.


About the only taxing that is done here is we tax the Oil Companies.


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## gypsysue

Yeah, Sourdough, I wondered about that too, because in Montana we have no sales tax, our income tax and property tax are very reasonable compared to friends and family in other states! :dunno:

We're so far from potential fallout from drift/wind that we don't consider it a serious risk. We might have to spend a bit of time in the shelter, depending what kind and how much fall-out, but it's not likely to contaminate the land or water for any length of time. Most places are at higher risk. However...

...I don't think the most likely scenarios we could face will involve radiation. A lot of other things loom more above that possibility.

Be sure to actually go SEE any place anyone is thinking of buying. Get to know the land, the area, the people, get to know as much as you can before you buy.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

lets just say these peeps may be right....this is a game changer for sure, this type of situation puts into a different perspective on 'where is the safest place to live'.........

Pole Shift Survival Information - Introduction

ZetaTalk: Pole Shift

then check out where yer at... Troubled Times: Zeta Advice on Locations


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## gypsysue

Interesting site! I had to click on one thing to get to another, and there were so many links and places to click I had to read carefully, but it was an entertaining 15 minutes of my time! I also watched the video she made about safe places to be during a pole shift.

I can cross another thing off my list! According to Nancy/Zeta talk, it looks like our home is in a safe place for a pole shift!


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## starkraven

watch out drinking water out of streams ,giardia is an amoebic cyst from animal feces that lodges in pancreas -makes you ill for months ,especially bad downstream from beaver dams -hence the nickname "beaver fever" . I was consulted by apt.building owner after many tenants became ill w/giardia ,found a hole/crack in water main where a squirrel had been "washing " itself ,many of elderly tenants ,along with a few infants were hospitalized as giardia causes dysentery,dehydration -No Joke ,drinking from streams is a crap shoot , lol,just ask a treeplanter who has and did contract the dreaded beaverfever


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## tsrwivey

weedygarden said:


> State Tax Burden - Modern Survival Blog - surviving uncertain times
> 
> I realize as soon as I saw your question that I should have posted this information and to say that it is not verified. I just took it as gospel and it may not be accurate. My bad. Perhaps this information can be found somewhere else.


This info is definately crap. If you look at the info from their own source it clearly states that the budget deficit numbers are from unfinalized budgets. They also failed to mention that Texas has a "rainy day fund", a savings account that could be used to cover deficits. Using unfinalized numbers just screams of someone pushing a particular agenda to me.


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## kejmack

It is also inaccurate because it treats sales tax, property tax, and income tax as the same. Sales tax is the fairest tax because everyone pays it.... even illegals.


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## UncleJoe

kejmack said:


> Sales tax is the fairest tax because everyone pays it.... even illegals.


:2thumb:

So why can't our congresscritters see this. :gaah:
Eliminate the IRS, implement a national sales tax and *everyone* pays the same rate. Since everyone needs to buy stuff, there is a steady cashflow and no loopholes. 
Seems pretty simple to me.


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## stayingthegame

If everyone is "moving" to the safest spot-- then perhaps the safest spot is where we are at. why go where all the other people are? Every area has its problems. just chose the one with the least for you.


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## Sourdough

UncleJoe said:


> :2thumb:
> 
> So why can't our congresscritters see this. :gaah:
> Eliminate the IRS, implement a national sales tax and *everyone* pays the same rate. Since everyone needs to buy stuff, there is a steady cashflow and no loopholes.
> Seems pretty simple to me.


Those of us who live a subsistence lifestyle buy very little. But I do think the sales or Value Added Tax is more fair than what currently exists.


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## weedygarden

stayingthegame said:


> If everyone is "moving" to the safest spot-- then perhaps the safest spot is where we are at. why go where all the other people are? Every area has its problems. just chose the one with the least for you.


:gaah:

I'm sorry, that is not the purpose of this discussion. There are people who have no preparations and live in high risk areas who are happy and content and are not looking at a bigger picture. I know people who go to the grocery store almost everyday, because they can and they are only thinking of today, like the grasshopper. I have had some people volunteer that we live in a great world because we can buy what we need anyday and there is no need to grow it, preserve it, store it.

If we were to determine the safest place(s), it would not have all the other people because some people are just happy where they are at and think that all places are the same. I don't think so. I think Southern California is not a safe place because of earthquakes, for example. It is a beautiful place with lovely climate and beaches and amusement parks and dense population. I think Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana and Texas, especially the southern coast of these states is not safe due to hurricanes. Those are two examples of place I am not looking to move to.

Montana looks to be a safe place to live and what is the population per square mile? Much less than New York. There is no rush to move to Montana.

Some people like to be where the action is, and some people need the risk to feel alive, like an addiction.

:gaah:


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

the Ozark Plateau then....other than the damnable scorpions.... they live mostly as preppers anyhow.....shtf scenerio wouldnt even be noticed...lol


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## gypsysue

That's why restaurants carry a variety of things on their menu! Everyone has a different idea of "perfect", including the perfect place/safest place to live! 

I feel very safe here in NW Montana and I feel like I've learned enough about surviving in this climate that I'm comfortable with my choice. Others would want to be somewhere warmer, or more populated, etc. We're all different. I wouldn't want to try to convert everyone to think like me, or my wilderness paradise would get crowded! 

You're right on the ball, stayingthegame! 

But it's been great reading everyone's opinions and thoughts on the subject! I look forward to more with great anticipation!


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## Tirediron

Well the foothills of south centeral Alberta are a terrible place to live, and I think everyone should move away form here as quickly as possible. It is only fit for cantakerous ranchers and the like.


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## Calista

If you're still reading this thread, WG, and contemplating the safest area for relocation with all the information you've received, let me add my two cents about the Number One consideration long-term, IMHO:

WATER: availability, costs, contamination, weather cycles, etc.

It's probably because I've spent my whole life in the Pacific North-WET and take our bounty of water resources for granted, that I was so horrified by the pictures and stories I read about the exceptional drought this year in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and parts of New Mexico, Arizona, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Georgia:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/expert_assessment/drought_monitor.pdf

The "Drought Tendency" projection map through the end of this year is pretty awful:

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/expert_assessment/seasonal_drought.pdf

Yes, Texans, I know droughts are a way of life with you and you've come up with some amazing strategies to use the limited resource wisely, but I think it's important for someone considering relocation to factor in long-term drought as "the new normal" along with a hefty state population increase for their sustainability plans.


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## Obligated

I am relatively new here and have not made the move to homesteading to date. I live in the suburbs of Ohio and for the most part, would love to live in rural Ohio. But given the land prices and taxes, Kentucky is looking like the best option. 

I am checking into the Wolf Creek Levy and other infrastructure issues with Ky. I need to chart the Madrid fault. If I cannot reconcile myself to those concerns, the search will continue. But at some point, the "analysis paralysis" is going to have to stop. 

I did stop using the AC this year. Thought I had it licked until two 100 degree plus days in a row. I was literally too sick to get up just from the heat. On came the AC.


----------



## Ezmerelda

Meerkat said:


> I got a feeling where we are is up shtf creek.But too late to move now.
> Our only hope is most of them kill off each other before they get to us,but thats not logical since we are so outnumbered by non preppers.Maybe we can stay at one of the gulags'I mean base's here when the zombies start coming out. Frugal swears FEMA will help me.


I feel your pain, Meerkat. We were stationed in Jax for 6 years. Maybe you could find a little place out past Baldwin, near one of state parks/nature reserves. That could be your BOL.

Of course, it's been a while, Baldwin may be a big city now for all I know...


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## denniscarmichael

Can't wait to get there, Sourdough.


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## ducksnjeeps

Cumberland Plateau are has my vote. Temperate climate. Close enough to big cities, yet still off in the distance.

Other than a meth head to dispatch every now and again its your regular eutopian society....


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## cajunmeadows

Right now I like my East Texas piney woods. Close to La. I know people there too


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## ShoeBoxLife

Sourdough said:


> Yes, it really is awful. Hehehehehe....... Only real problem with Alaska is the lack of women. But it is 67* and not a cloud in the sky. And, I am just ready to leave out the back door for a day walk in the untrod wilderness, Where I drink the water straight from the creeks, never see a human unless I go off my mountain.....oh'yes I had fresh red salmon for breakfast and yes it was free for the catching.


Sounds like perfection to me. Any empty spots up your way for two retired folks?


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## stanb999

Sourdough said:


> Yes, it really is awful. Hehehehehe....... Only real problem with Alaska is the lack of women. But it is 67* and not a cloud in the sky. And, I am just ready to leave out the back door for a day walk in the untrod wilderness, Where I drink the water straight from the creeks, never see a human unless I go off my mountain.....oh'yes I had fresh red salmon for breakfast and yes it was free for the catching.


To update the forecast a bit. This is the issue with Alaska. Even with free wood heat you better live in a small house.

1 - 5 of 15 days | All 15 Days

Next 5 days >

Next 5 Days

Overnight
Nov 14
Patchy clouds and cold Lo 5°
Tomorrow
Nov 15
Sunny and cold 13°Lo -2°
more
Wednesday
Nov 16
Sunny, breezy and cold 15°Lo -2°
more
Thursday
Nov 17
Sunny and very cold 14°Lo -8°
more


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## stand

*Know what fish, beaver, muskrats, etc DO in water?*

all surface water is dangerous, until purified. If you want to be locked up for 6 months of the year in ice, Alaska is great. So is Canada. I dislike both cold and heat, so I normally move twice a year. If shtf, I will just hide out until nearly everyone is dead, then make my way (inflatable raft, mountain bicycle) to Northern California/Southern Oregon, where the weather and resources are best (year round).


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## JayJay

Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty! Top Five Places Not to Be - David Icke Website

Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty! Top Five Places Not to Be

Obligated, let me know how the Madrid charting comes out.


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## Calista

According to Survival Mom, I made the top 5!  Now, if I could just find a bigger piece of land further away from the Seattle metroplex...

Could you survive TEOTWAWKI in your state? Here are the Best 5 States and the Worst 5 States for Survival | The Survival Mom


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## kejmack

JayJay said:


> Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty! Top Five Places Not to Be - David Icke Website
> 
> Economic Collapse a Mathematical Certainty! Top Five Places Not to Be
> 
> Obligated, let me know how the Madrid charting comes out.


That video sounds like it was produced by the OWS crowd. A lot of propaganda.


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## VUnder

kejmack said:


> That video sounds like it was produced by the OWS crowd. A lot of propaganda.


I saw another one called "Earth 2100" , now talk about something to indoctrinate children with... It uses animated shots and talks as if trying to reach kids, all doom and gloom. They play it on Sat. mornings sometimes, when kids are up. If I had any kids, I wouldn't let them watch such things.


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## dakota_cachers

I have lived in both of the Dakota's. South first, now north. As far as ND, the oil fields are bringing in a lot of rif-raff. The cost of living there has grown, and there is no place to live. Almost every house or apartment is taken. The crime rate has sky-rocketed. 

Yes, winters here are terrible. -40 below, 100+ inches of snowfall, this past spring the Missouri river and the Souris river both flooded, causing a massive about of damage. Summer can get into the 100+ range with high humidity.

And then we are also home to the Minot AFB, which has 150 land based Nuclear missle silos, and the AFB has a bunch of nukes that would be and are loaded on to aircraft. So in the event of a full scale nuclear war, we are soooo screwed.

You can drive for miles in some areas and hardly see a cow, let alone another person or farmstead. Hardly any trees to build anything. Mostly grass and a lot of wheat. 

I like it, because the population, at least here, isnt bad yet. I live in the 2nd largest city with a population of 62,000 and over 100,000 in the metro area. Its not over croweded, and still has a large enough city to be able to do pretty much anything. Large mall, two large hospitals, good job opportunitys, most of the people are friendly, and a lot of history. Lewis and Clark actually went right by here on there journey, Gen Custer was stationed here when he led the expedition to the Black Hills, and to the Little Big Horn. Lots and lots of places to hunt, fish, camp, or whatever. So all in all, its really not that bad of a state.


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## rikinwyoming

Wyoming ,, I can accept the winds and harsh winters to be in a low population density state full of natural game, beautiful land, etc...


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## 1969cj-5

gypsysue said:


> Some like it hot, some like it cold. I won't say I love our long, cold winters, but I sure like it better than the triple degree temperatures and even higher heat indexes I'm seeing on the news in the south and east right now! Humidity at any temperature is rough. I hope everyone in those places is finding ways to stay cool, and to keep their pets/livestock cool.
> 
> Here's a tidbit from the latest AARP magazine that might be helpful for some folks trying to figure out the best place to live. Of course it depends on your criteria for a good place, but one of ours was "uncrowded"!
> 
> POPULATION DENSITY - Residents per square mile
> 
> Alabama - 94.4
> Alaska - 1.2
> Arizona - 56.3
> Arkansas - 56
> California - 239.1
> Colorado - 48.5
> Connecticutt - 738.1
> D.C. - 9856.5
> Delaware - 460.8
> Florida - 350.6
> Georgia - 168.4
> Hawaii - 211.8
> Idaho - 19
> Illinois - 231.1
> Indiana - 181
> Iowa - 54.5
> Kansas - 34.9
> Kentucky - 109.9
> Louisiana - 104.9
> Maine 0 43.1
> Maryland - 594.8
> Massachusetts - 839.4
> Michigan - 174.8
> Minnesota - 66.6
> Mississippi - 63.2
> Missouri - 87.1
> Montana - 6.8
> Nebraska - 23.6
> New Hampshire - 147
> New Jersey - 1195.5
> New Mexico - 17
> New York - 411.2
> North Carolina - 196.1
> North Dakota - 9.7
> Ohio - 282.3
> Oklahoma - 54.7
> Oregon - 39.9
> Pennsylvania - 283.9
> Rhode Island - 1018.1
> South Carolina - 153.9
> South Dakota - 10.7
> Tennessee - 153.9
> Texas - 96.3
> Utah - 33.6
> Vermont - 67.9
> Virginia - 202.6
> Washington - 101.2
> West Virginia - 77.1
> Wisconsin - 105
> Wyoming 5.8
> 
> Just kind of interesting to look it over!


Oh to be living in a single digit State!!!


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## weedygarden

*Can you grow anything there?*



rikinwyoming said:


> Wyoming ,, I can accept the winds and harsh winters to be in a low population density state full of natural game, beautiful land, etc...


rikinwyoming, please tell us about gardening and growing food there. I know that there are parts of Wyoming where it is a struggle, if not impossible to have a productive garden, or to grow any kinds of crops.

I have a friend, who lives west of Laramie, who has found it impossible to grow things like cucmbers and tomatoes. I don't know what else she has tried.

I know that in the eastern part of the state, around Wheatland, they can grow wheat. I have not found out if much else grows in Wyoming, except trees in the mountains and grass.


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## lilrose8

petedewd said:


> West coast is off because of quakes.
> Yellowstone eruption would take out entire midwest so...
> 
> Good question.


There are quakes everywhere...look at Virginia and Oklahoma recently....


----------



## lilrose8

Biscuit said:


> You can't seriously think that it's possible to generalize, and lump an entire states' worth of people and geography into any ONE category? Just like groups of people, you can divide them by gender, race, background, and there will be *some* shared characteristics... but by and by, all humans are individuals and all areas have their own flavor and uniqueness.
> 
> I roll my eyes when people (who apparently have never set foot in any part of California, north or south) claim "California is out because of all those earthquakes." While southern CA has some earthquakes, something like 9 million people seem to handle it just fine. My reasons for not wanting to live in southern CA would be...those other 9 million people.
> 
> I live outside of Sacramento, in northern CA, and grew up in Sacramento. The last time I felt an earthquake was a VERY small one, and that was in the mid-70's, 35+ years ago. So please, people...enough with the "OMG, earthquakes!" I'd be more afraid of tornadoes, which are happening even here now.
> 
> This is just an example, to exemplify that you can't judge an entire state by a generalization.
> 
> Do your homework, visit the places you're considering. And if you're considering CA, know that we're not all "beaches and movie stars." Our state is the same size as Switzerland, big enough to contain 5 states. In fact, we contain another state The state of Jefferson.
> 
> And then there's Texas. Texas is like it's own COUNTRY for crying' out loud! The east is part of the old south, the west is part of the "frontier", ad in the middle you've got everything in between (and not to mention some damn fine BBQ). 268,601 square miles...I dare you to fit ALL of it into just ONE category.
> 
> Do your homework, visit the places you're considering.


I agree that people automatically think of L.A. when they think of California. This is a huge state and Northern California is completely and utterly different from Southern California. We have wide open spaces, plenty of rain all winter, mild winters too, and the people here are nice.
I felt a smallish earthquake about 6 years ago but none since. I agree, that's a lot better than the tornadoes that happen every year like clockwork in large sections of the country.


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## VUnder

Yes, but California can get a tsunami and can fall off into the ocean with a quake. Plus there are tar pits, a direct link to the lava. I want to stay in the middle of the country.


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## kappydell

ditto catsraven's reply...safe depends on what you want to be safe from. the same folks that put out a book called Dare to Prepare also put out a CD titled 'safe places USA'. I discovered that noplace is safe from everything. If it isn't earthquake faults, its bio-research and storage facilities, or nuke storage and development labs, or tornadoes, or hurricanes, or severe winters.... You end up choosing what risks you find tolerable. I decided to stay in the same area. I know how to handle tornadoes and severe winters, and can therefore tolerate those risks.


----------



## UncleJoe

1969cj-5 said:


> Oh to be living in a single digit State!!!


Keep in mind, the numbers can be deceiving. Larger states with high population densities such as CA, NY and PA have pockets of concentration. In Pa, they are at the corners. Northern NY is mostly rural as is northern Ca. I'm not real fond of being as close to the Baltimore/DC metro as I am but it's where I live so I'll have to deal with it.


----------



## HozayBuck

*I once thought about all yawl living in the East and how I feel for you...and I thought ..Yanno if it was me I'd find someplace I could get to if I had to run for it, and I'd rent a storage unit and store my preps mostly there... If I had to run for it I could just grab the Bobs and go.. maybe a family bob that would hold us for a week or two.. stopping to load all you're stuff might get ya undone...

I know if I lived east of the Ol Miss, I'd preplan a way to cross over if the bridges all got impassable... even if it were nothing more then good life jackets or a flat bottom river or boat with a small motor... I would hate to be stranded on the wrong side of that river, but then I don't live there so it's not a worry really.. but I like to cook up things to make me think.. I even once thought about learning to fly so if it was too bad I could "Borrow" a plane and go...

Where there's a will there is a way... or so "they" say  *


----------



## Wanderer0101

Obligated said:


> I am relatively new here and have not made the move to homesteading to date. I live in the suburbs of Ohio and for the most part, would love to live in rural Ohio. But given the land prices and taxes, Kentucky is looking like the best option.
> 
> I am checking into the Wolf Creek Levy and other infrastructure issues with Ky. I need to chart the Madrid fault. If I cannot reconcile myself to those concerns, the search will continue. But at some point, the "analysis paralysis" is going to have to stop.
> 
> I did stop using the AC this year. Thought I had it licked until two 100 degree plus days in a row. I was literally too sick to get up just from the heat. On came the AC.


If you are concerned about the New Madrid fault the very best analysis I've found is in a University of Illinois study called Impact of New Madrid Seismic Zone Earthquakes on the Central USA, Vol. 1 and 2 which can be found here.

IDEALS @ Illinois: Impact of New Madrid Seismic Zone Earthquakes on the Central USA, Vol. 1 and 2

It contains an absolute wealth of information broken down by category and county for all the impacted states and put my mind to rest about the areas in Missouri and Arkansas that interested me.


----------



## stanb999

HozayBuck said:


> *I once thought about all yawl living in the East and how I feel for you...and I thought ..Yanno if it was me I'd find someplace I could get to if I had to run for it, and I'd rent a storage unit and store my preps mostly there... If I had to run for it I could just grab the Bobs and go.. maybe a family bob that would hold us for a week or two.. stopping to load all you're stuff might get ya undone...
> 
> I know if I lived east of the Ol Miss, I'd preplan a way to cross over if the bridges all got impassable... even if it were nothing more then good life jackets or a flat bottom river or boat with a small motor... I would hate to be stranded on the wrong side of that river, but then I don't live there so it's not a worry really.. but I like to cook up things to make me think.. I even once thought about learning to fly so if it was too bad I could "Borrow" a plane and go...
> 
> Where there's a will there is a way... or so "they" say  *


I being in the east always think about those in the west... How they will fare after the water pumps stop flowing. :dunno:

I know folks lived out there before power. But not many and most along rivers and creeks. Those areas are now cities. Can't stay there.

What will most do? I've always wondered.


----------



## gypsysue

The agricultural areas, mainly in California, Oregon, and washington, will fold up without the water. The rest of the west will be fine. Wheat and potatoes and other crops are frequently grown without watering. For the individual, there are other water sources, for the most part.

The cities will be screwed, but then so will all cities, east or west, when the water utility and other services are gone.

Without question, though, the east gets more reliable rainfall.


----------



## Turtle

1969cj-5 said:


> Oh to be living in a single digit State!!!


HAHA! I'd settle for a DOUBLE digit state!


----------



## gypsysue

594.8 persons per square mile in Maryland... Holy Cow, where do you put them all??? 

I see Massechusetts, Connecticutt and DC are even worse! 

I bet you do feel like a double-digit state would be an improvement! Yikes! I know some heavier-populated states have isolated rural pockets, but I suspect Maryland doesn't have many. Good luck!


----------



## Tweto

I read all the posts in this thread.

Here is my take, 90% were defending their current locations. The way I see it, the biggest safety threat is people. So live in low population density
areas where the hunting is good. If a garden is possible then great. 

I have traveled to all 50 states including most of Canada. My top 3 areas are the sand hills of Nebraska (thats western Nebraska) South Dakota and Alaska.
Alaska is my first choice. I spent 3 weeks there in 2007 and can not get Alaska out of my mind. I would be living there now except for my wife not wanting to move.

The temperatures in southern Alaska are about the same as here in Nebraska. In Alaska you will never go hungry or thirsty and you have isolation galore. 

If you need people around you then pick an eastern or southern state.


----------



## weedygarden

Tweto said:


> I read all the posts in this thread.
> 
> Here is my take, 90% were defending their current locations. The way I see it, the biggest safety threat is people. So live in low population density
> areas where the hunting is good. If a garden is possible then great.
> 
> I have traveled to all 50 states including most of Canada. My top 3 areas are the sand hills of Nebraska (thats western Nebraska) South Dakota and Alaska.
> Alaska is my first choice. I spent 3 weeks there in 2007 and can not get Alaska out of my mind. I would be living there now except for my wife not wanting to move.
> 
> The temperatures in southern Alaska are about the same as here in Nebraska. In Alaska you will never go hungry or thirsty and you have isolation galore.
> 
> If you need people around you then pick an eastern or southern state.


Thank you for this post. I have often thought that in many ways, Alaska would be a great place to live. I, probably like many people, think of it as being frigid in the winter.

I travel through the sand hills of Nebraska about once a year. I have been stuck in the sand in the sand hills of South Dakota. I know that some people who live around there have done very well with agriculture and gardens. It has been one of my thoughts about a safe place, due to the low population and remoteness from much of the rest of the country.

The people in those parts of the world are extremely friendly and helpful. They are hard working and industrious.

Many people who live around there have guns and are hunters. There is lots of hunting in those parts also--deer, antelope, pheasants, ducks, geese. I know that wild turkeys have made a huge comeback in the past decade or two.

One of the South Dakota challenges has to do with taxes. They do not have an income tax (or didn't a few years ago, maybe has changed), but they have property taxes instead.

They also can have fairly severe winters.


----------



## purecaffeine

gypsysue said:


> Without question, though, the east gets more reliable rainfall.


For now :sssh:


----------



## lefty

it is an interesting question. A lot depends on what SHTF situation happens. If nukes fly or Yelowstone blows or total economic collapse occurs. No matter what you need enough land to raise some food, you may want enough population around to be able to engage in barter, or some social activity.


----------



## UncleJoe

Here is another opinion. I don't really agree with it but I'll put it out there for others to consider. I can tolerate the cold season.


----------



## weedygarden

UncleJoe said:


> Here is another opinion. I don't really agree with it but I'll put it out there for others to consider. I can tolerate the cold season.
> 
> US Economic Collapse Survial Map.flv - YouTube


This is exactly the kind of analysis I was looking for, but I do not agree at all with his guidelines. I can and want to live where there is frost, as long as there is access to wood for burning, etc.

I believe that there is no perfect place to live, but that there are places where survival is more likely.

Things to consider:

Earthquake zones
tsunami zones
Hurricane alley
No desert--lack of water is a necessary concern
pests--mosquitoes, snakes
resources--wood, water, fertile soil, stone for building
temperatures--no long term extremes


----------



## Tweto

I don't agree with the You Tube map. 

Some people have written in this thread that they get used to temperatures in the those southern states. I'm old enough to remember the south in the 60's. The problem I have is that 50 years ago before AC nobody lived in the south.

The top 10 largest cities were in the North, when AC became available then people started to move south and now 8 of the top 10 cities are in the south. This all happen since AC was invented. I was in florida in 1969 and it was miserable. The bugs were everywhere and there wasn't one garbage can that was not full of maggets. The older people that had lived their all of their lives were in their 50's and looked like they were in their 70's. Younger people would not understand this because now modern Florida uses insecticides to control these problems. I was in florida again in 2006 and the hotel we stayed at sprayed for bugs every other day and the city sprayed late at night. Florida and all of the gulf states would return to the bad old days if there was no electricity and the government had collapsed.

Before I had a generator, and I had a power outage (witch was common and still is) in the summer I couldn't sleep (no AC no fan, just sweat), if I had a power outage in the winter I was fine, burn some wood in the fire place and you could not tell the differance.

Sorry for being to lengthy.

I will with no reservations take a northern state.


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## UncleJoe

I agree. It's easier, for me anyway, to warm up rather than trying to keep from overheating. I went to Florida for a week in Sept. back in '86. I have NO desire to ever go back.


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## battleforliberation2534

*Texas and Utah*

The two states that I would consider moving to would be Texas and Utah... my only concern with Texas is water.... how would you maintain a water resource there?

I chose Utah because when you look at a map and see where nuclear reactors are and their danger zones.. what you have left is Utah. Plus, with all those mormon's up there, there should be plenty of supplies considering that their religion requires them to stock up for a couple of years... just in case. If anywhere was safe it would definitely be there.

What all do some of you know about that area?


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## weedygarden

*LOL!*



battleforliberation2534 said:


> The two states that I would consider moving to would be Texas and Utah... my only concern with Texas is water.... how would you maintain a water resource there?
> 
> I chose Utah because when you look at a map and see where nuclear reactors are and their danger zones.. what you have left is Utah. Plus, with all those mormon's up there, there should be plenty of supplies considering that their religion requires them to stock up for a couple of years... just in case. If anywhere was safe it would definitely be there.
> 
> What all do some of you know about that area?


I laughed about this, because, the idea that the people of Utah and the state of Utah would be the best prepared never occurred to me.

On the other hand, would it have a big target because ALL Mormons are prepared, right. Well, I know that they are commanded to be prepared, but everything I read says that not 50% of them are. Even some of my mormon friends are not prepared.


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## gypsysue

I still think it's a good bet to be in Utah. I'd pick a rural area or small town, and be friendly with the residents. I used to think the Mormons might be a closed community, and maybe they would help their own first, but they'll also be helping others as they can, setting up garden efforts and farming and organizing groups to take care of things like repairs or sewing or whatever needs to be done. Sure they're not perfect and not all have prepped like they should, but as a whole, they're ahead of the curve. I'd take my chances with them. We have quite a population of them up here in NW Montana and they've worked hard with other people, groups, and churches on prep-related and self-sufficiency issues. I lived in a couple parts of Utah back in the '80s and love the state. It has more geographical variety than just about any other state.

As for Texas, the eastern edge would have water, but water might be a problem in the rest of the state.

Best wishes!


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## Davarm

gypsysue said:


> As for Texas, the eastern edge would have water, but water might be a problem in the rest of the state.


Not entirely true, the Edwards Aquafer covers most of/if not all of the central part of the state and as far west as Del Rio. Many of the man made lakes aidin its recharge and despite its heavy and growing use, has remained fairly consistant and very reliable for decades. In San Antonio, at least while I was there, the aquafer levels were reported on the nightly news.

Along much if not all of the Gulf Coast, fresh drinkable ground water can be reached as little as 20 feet down. I dug a well with a pick and shovel when I lived down there just to see if I could do it, took me less than 2 days.

Most of the water issues of recent years are not because of drought conditions but because of the growing demand by all the foriegners(non Texans) rushing in to the state. I say "foreigner" not as an insult to those coming in but as a matter of pride being a native born Texan.

For the like minded, we dont shoot people swimming the Red River(northern border), just those crossing the Rio Grand(southern border).


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## Meerkat

UncleJoe said:


> I agree. It's easier, for me anyway, to warm up rather than trying to keep from overheating. I went to Florida for a week in Sept. back in '86. I have NO desire to ever go back.


 The heat and humidity here in occupied florida is breathtaking for sure . But the planting season is longer and winters are mild.But if I were younger I'd live up north Utah or N.Dakota .Even better Canadas NW Territory.


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## rikinwyoming

weedygarden said:


> rikinwyoming, please tell us about gardening and growing food there. I know that there are parts of Wyoming where it is a struggle, if not impossible to have a productive garden, or to grow any kinds of crops.
> 
> I have a friend, who lives west of Laramie, who has found it impossible to grow things like cucmbers and tomatoes. I don't know what else she has tried.
> 
> I know that in the eastern part of the state, around Wheatland, they can grow wheat. I have not found out if much else grows in Wyoming, except trees in the mountains and grass.


Sorry for the delayed response, I will attempt to answer and more with my limited knowledge...
I live in casper, 1.5 hours north of wheatland and 2 hours north of Laramie...
We basically have long winters, 3 month summers, and very short spring and fall seasons. Where I live they grow hay and alfalfa, and irrigate their land to do so. I believe that using a greenhouse type structure you could grow pretty much whatever you want, but you have to shield from the winds and the cold. Having a personal well on your property is key, drilling costs $10 per foot, the most I have ever seen someone pay is $10k for a good well,,, most are half that it seems...
We have no state income tax, low population density, low insurance rates, jobs are plentiful.Casper and Cheyenne are the biggest population area's with about 60k residents (give or take 5 to 8k depending on how the last winter was). Favorable gun laws and building codes, abundant wildlife.
I moved here back in 1995 from eastern PA and have never looked back...Yes, the wind is also in abundance as is the sun, so alternative energy sources are easily applied.
I hope this at least answered a few questions,,, feel free to ask more, anything I can do to help I will try my best,,


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## HarleyRider

Personally, I'm leaving South Florida and moving to Tennessee. At least the people there speak English. South Florida is probably 75% Spanish-speaking only. If you don't speak Spanish down here they look at you as if you are crazy. The prices for everything are soaring through the roof, property taxes are INSANE, and there is no place to bug out to if something bad happens except head north and try to fight your way through 800 miles worth of screaming sheeple. Most of the watershed is ruined due to saltwater intrusion, there is almost no wild game to hunt for food, and the coastal waters are all fished out. :surrender:


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## Helocast

Determining what is the best state to survive in seems to be a pretty broad stroke to a complex problem. Every state has its virtues and its problems. We finally settles down after 30 years of discussion and evaluation based on a few things. First, population density: the less people the less problems. Second, terrain: is there easy access to my town/house or is it off the main routes of travel. Third, escape routes: if I had to leave the house do I have immediate access to the wilderness or am I trapped by cities? Fourth, low crime rate per capita...gooes without saying. Fifth, Water: where am I on the water table. Am I above the industrial level or near the sourse. You cannot live without a good water source. Sixth, weather considerations for crops and livestock. Do I have a growing season and is it so harsh that maintain livestock is going to be an issue. And Finally, are the local people down to earth and accepting of new citizens or are they socially tied to the modern society. To me the local cohesiveness is a key factor in any disaster.

additional things I look for, of course, are geological issues, weather issues. But most important,to they have a real hardware store and a real auto parts store.

Just some thoughts on how we did it.


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## TheAnt

battleforliberation2534 said:


> The two states that I would consider moving to would be Texas and Utah... my only concern with Texas is water.... how would you maintain a water resource there?
> 
> I chose Utah because when you look at a map and see where nuclear reactors are and their danger zones.. what you have left is Utah. Plus, with all those mormon's up there, there should be plenty of supplies considering that their religion requires them to stock up for a couple of years... just in case. If anywhere was safe it would definitely be there.
> 
> What all do some of you know about that area?


I got stranded in Moab, Utah for three days during a snow storm and my wife and I absolutely loved it. It was beautiful and quiet (at least while we were there). I imagine it gets louder and crazier in the summer months when folks are usually there as tourists. All in all it seemed like a nice little town with lots of outdoor stuff to do. There are a number of communities to the south of there that we drove through that seemed nice as well. If you were serious about moving I would consider this area.


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## musketjim

Such a good question. We've chosen Alaska, but I have no illusions of how difficult it will be when it all comes down. I work hard on food storage hunting, trapping, foraging, fishing and gardening etc. but there will always be gaps that make survival in an area difficult. I think it's important to be mobile and invisible. Both hard to do up here. You need friends you can trust. Good luck to everyone.


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## BlueShoe

Tweto said:


> I don't agree with the You Tube map.
> 
> Some people have written in this thread that they get used to temperatures in the those southern states. I'm old enough to remember the south in the 60's. The problem I have is that 50 years ago before AC nobody lived in the south.
> 
> The top 10 largest cities were in the North, when AC became available then people started to move south and now 8 of the top 10 cities are in the south. This all happen since AC was invented. I was in florida in 1969 and it was miserable. The bugs were everywhere and there wasn't one garbage can that was not full of maggets. The older people that had lived their all of their lives were in their 50's and looked like they were in their 70's. Younger people would not understand this because now modern Florida uses insecticides to control these problems. I was in florida again in 2006 and the hotel we stayed at sprayed for bugs every other day and the city sprayed late at night. Florida and all of the gulf states would return to the bad old days if there was no electricity and the government had collapsed.
> 
> Before I had a generator, and I had a power outage (witch was common and still is) in the summer I couldn't sleep (no AC no fan, just sweat), if I had a power outage in the winter I was fine, burn some wood in the fire place and you could not tell the differance.
> 
> Sorry for being to lengthy.
> 
> I will with no reservations take a northern state.


I don't believe it was the AC, because the population pre-AC was also concentrated in the east, midwest and northeast. It still is. With the decrease in industrialization the north is giving up populations. See Michigan for an example.
I believe it had more to do with electricity coming to the region in the 1930s being the reason. Electricity allows factories and industry which replace agrarian endeavors. People can survive the heat and humidity better than the cold. Industry moves due to lower costs too. No unions and lower cost of living (labor) is attractive.

People will denude the forested areas for heating /cooking in a hurry. And when all you care about is making it through the day, you don't care that you're cutting all the trees down. But more people will head to warm climates leaving move resources for the lower population, so that's good.


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## gypsysue

tenOC said:


> People can survive the heat and humidity better than the cold.


Maybe most people can, but not me! 

I can't stand humidity. I lived 6 years in SE Kentucky in the '90s and had a headache almost the whole time. It disappeared like a miracle when we moved back out west.

I can put on a warm sweatshirt, wool socks, long underwear, or get active and busy to get warm. But you can only do so much about the heat, at least before you're at risk of violating laws about indecent exposure!


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## Tweto

tenOC said:


> I don't believe it was the AC, because the population pre-AC was also concentrated in the east, midwest and northeast. It still is. With the decrease in industrialization the north is giving up populations. See Michigan for an example.
> 
> I believe it had more to do with electricity coming to the region in the 1930s being the reason. Electricity allows factories and industry which replace agrarian endeavors. People can survive the heat and humidity better than the cold. Industry moves due to lower costs too. No unions and lower cost of living (labor) is attractive.
> 
> People will denude the forested areas for heating /cooking in a hurry. And when all you care about is making it through the day, you don't care that you're cutting all the trees down. But more people will head to warm climates leaving move resources for the lower population, so that's good.


I'm glad that you like the warmer areas. When TEOTWHWKI happens, the Zombies (I hate this term) will be headed south (at least for the first year) I hope you enjoy the crowds.:wave:

A 1 hour special on the history channel explained why AC was the reason the population has headed to southern states. I believe the name of the show was "How the States got their Shapes".:scratch

I would expect that people under the age of about 50 that grew-up in the southern states would prefer the southern states.

Here's an experiment to do, in the summer time, go to the power meter and pull it out (or turn off the main circuit breaker). If you do this honestly and stay without power for just 1 week you will change your mine. Now keep in mine that this includes the refrigerator/freezer so no ice, no cold drinks, only canned foods or foods preserved with salt.

At least in the northern states for 3-7 months heat is not an issue. In the most southern states freezing never happens.

Did you know that the leading cause of death in the 1800's was food poisoning.:sssh:

Did you know that the center of activity in most southern towns (pre AC) was the ice house. Most of the ice houses were surounded by bars diners, etc.:sssh:

Until about 1940, the second largest ice manufacturer in the country was in Nebraska. All winter ice was cut into large blocks then stored in large warehouses till it was put on railcars and shipped to the south. This was not a small operation, the company employed over 1500 people.

I even remember my grandfather taking me to the local ice house to get a block of ice for our ice box. Sorry, just had to throw this in, good memories.


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## gypsysue

Here in NW Montana we keep our refrigerator on the north end of a covered porch. We unplug it from about the first of November until the first of April, since it's cold enough to keep the food plenty chilled. In the summer our cold mountain nights often dip below 40, even in July. That sure cuts down on how much the fridge runs, which is helpful since we live off-grid with solar power. Doesn't cost us anything to run the fridge, but we have to work with the seasons and daylight hours.

I think Tweto is right, most people will head south after TEOTWAWKI. The illusion is that survival will be easier in a warmer place with a long growing season. We did have to learn how to garden this far north, but we already live primarily on what we produce ourselves, so I know it can be done. So we'll wave at those who are heading south, and just stay put up here! :wave:


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## tsrwivey

Tweto said:


> I'm glad that you like the warmer areas. When TEOTWHWKI happens, the Zombies (I hate this term) will be headed south (at least for the first year) I hope you enjoy the crowds.:wave:


How are these northern zombies, who have no food, water, fuel, guns or ammo, going to actually *get* to the south? :dunno: Geez, how many even know which direction south is? Sorry, I think you're stuck with them.  At least until winter comes & thins the herd.


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## GatorDude

*I nominate . . .*

Atlanta, Georgia. It's calm, serene, crime-free, and sparsely populated--NOT! But, you'll never get complacent here. You're survival instincts will be finely-honed and razor sharp just from commuting and running errands. If you watch the news and pay attention, you'll know exactly who to shoot first if TSHTF. Plus, you'll already live in a fortified location. My apartment complex has gates, cameras, barbed wire fences, and a 30-foot high anti-zombie wall. It's even got a community garden. We've got the CDC (unless it really is rigged to detonate) , hospitals galore, military bases, and state government. So pass the ammunition, I'm buggin' in!


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## dirtgrrl

Another thing that encouraged population growth is mosquito abatement for diseases like malaria, dengue fever, and now West Nile Virus. If the zombies make it through the first mosquito-infested summer, they deserve to live.

I'm sticking to the desert.


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## Davarm

I am another that remembers the 60's in the south(Texas), I do remember it being hot but since I didn't know any different, don't remember it as being unpleasant. We knew where all the swimming holes were, where the springs were, and where he coldest wells were. All the homes had big covered porches and shade trees in the yard, in short those of us who are from here have learned how to live here.

I will have no problem in the heat when TSHF, More power to you who love the cold, I have been in climates with temps ranging from -20 F to 120 F(this summer 110+ for 32 days straight), will take the heat any day.


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## TicoTiger

I have lived in Costa Rica for more than 20 years. As far as safety goes, there are absolutely NO nuclear plants anywhere nearby. Huge Plus. Radiation will ruin the best retreat!

I own a large mountain farm, which I call The Freehold. It's far from main roads and and even the secondary road which goes by the entrance is very hard to drive on by any vehicle other than a 4x4. It has cool but not cold climate, abundant water, fertile soil, and lots of natural resources (i.e. wood, stone) and there are no neighbors. The farm is fairly self-sufficient so I wouldn't have to leave very often in a real crisis. The area is not likely to be over-run by people fleeing the more populated areas since food and farming is non-existent due to the altitude and frequent heavy rains (I do grow hydroponic crops under glass). Hungry refugees are not likely to be attracted to the general area. That makes my area relatively safe. Another plus.

The most obvious dangers are earthquakes and volcanic eruptions. Properly designed buildings (not McMansion cardboard show palaces) minimize the former dangers and my farm is as far away as possible in a country the size of West Virginia from all other volcanoes (active and dormant).

Obviously, the culture is different than the states (I was born and grew up in Ohio) but that is not a real danger if you understand how things work. Also, if worse comes to worse, few Costa Ricans own heavy weapons of any kind and ammo is very expensive so I like my chances with the defenses I possess.

Biggest danger in my situation is that I have only a very few people who will be with me at present, although that will hopefully change.


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## CrackbottomLouis

GatorDude said:


> Atlanta, Georgia. It's calm, serene, crime-free, and sparsely populated--NOT! But, you'll never get complacent here. You're survival instincts will be finely-honed and razor sharp just from commuting and running errands. If you watch the news and pay attention, you'll know exactly who to shoot first if TSHTF. Plus, you'll already live in a fortified location. My apartment complex has gates, cameras, barbed wire fences, and a 30-foot high anti-zombie wall. It's even got a community garden. We've got the CDC (unless it really is rigged to detonate) , hospitals galore, military bases, and state government. So pass the ammunition, I'm buggin' in!


In the same boat just a little north of the city. I agree with your assessment of the positives. Especially the apartment assessment. However, upon graduation Im getting out. Always loved western North Carolina. There are some very rural spots out in that part of the Blue Ridge/ southern appalachia. As long as Im about 45 mins to a hospital for work Ill be happy. Good water, lots of timber, good growing seasons, solid game populations, friendly people that keep to themselves, and a ton of outdoor activities to enjoy until shtf. It also has the added benefit of being absolutely beautiful. Anyone from there that can poke holes in my romanticized veiw of the area?


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## Tex

Knowing the area you live in is always a good thing. I have family all around the East side of Dallas County and surrounding counties. I know very useful people with good skills and am willing to reciperocate.

Another thing to consider is post SHTF politics. As an example, do you think Texas would secede and go on their own if the rest of the U.S. is in chaos? Glenn Beck moved here and I suspect that was on his mind. That and the very favorable gun laws, stable economy, and fair tax laws that will help you prepare for SHTF before it happens.


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## AlyMorgan

I wonder if the quakes would affect me in the valley of California? I'm pretty far away from the San Andreas fault, and the city I'm in is pretty nice as far as crime and stuff goes. "wholesome Folsom" haha. I'll have to look into that though....


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## FatTire

AlyMorgan said:


> I wonder if the quakes would affect me in the valley of California? I'm pretty far away from the San Andreas fault, and the city I'm in is pretty nice as far as crime and stuff goes. "wholesome Folsom" haha. I'll have to look into that though....


Depends on intensity, like most things in life


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## FrankW

For long term access to water even after global warming most studies have shown the Northeast is best, otherwise Canada.


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## bigpaul

I live in the south-west of England, mild climate, in the middle of a low almost no crime area, rural farming area, on the edge of a small market town, i know my area very well having lived in this (general) area for most of my life, i wouldn't want to live anywhere else but if i had to choose i would say Canada...probably Ontario where my mothers family lived( now all deceased).


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## MrDean

We live in a little treed valley in the White mountains of Arizona with the closest big city Flagstaff about 140 miles away and Pheonix about 180 miles away with the Palo Verde Neuc power plant about 200 miles away as the crow flies. Can't imagine anything safer. 100% self contained and self sufficient. Except for a Green House, only reason, just not my thing. Plenty of land and could easily build one if ever the need.

The water table has been stable ever since the first indians settled about a mile down our seasonal creek where the big spring has surfaced out for centuries. The settlement is well over 1000 years old with the best tasting water I have ever had. You can look down our well with a mirror and bright sun light and the static water level has not varied an inch since we drilled it some 16 years ago.

I feel about as safe as anyplace in the world.


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## tootoolz

*Texas IS a good place to be...*



Tex said:


> Knowing the area you live in is always a good thing. I have family all around the East side of Dallas County and surrounding counties. I know very useful people with good skills and am willing to reciperocate.
> 
> Another thing to consider is post SHTF politics. As an example, do you think Texas would secede and go on their own if the rest of the U.S. is in chaos? Glenn Beck moved here and I suspect that was on his mind. That and the very favorable gun laws, stable economy, and fair tax laws that will help you prepare for SHTF before it happens.


I too believe that Texas is the place to be. I especially favor the north central to north-eastern regions for a number of reasons: heavily wooded, good dirt for growing, abundant wild-life, and water sources. Being a native, I am a little biased. Any place out of large, urban areas would be reasonably safer than the big cities full of non-preppers.

It matters less where you are than if you have a plan in place and supplies. Make the best of what you have where you have it, say your prayers, and keep your powder dry!


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## The_Blob

tootoolz said:


> I too believe that Texas is the place to be. I especially favor the north central to north-eastern regions for a number of reasons: heavily wooded, good dirt for growing, abundant wild-life, and water sources. Being a native, I am a little biased. *Any place out of large, urban areas would be reasonably safer than the big cities full of non-preppers.*
> 
> It matters less where you are than if you have a plan in place and supplies. Make the best of what you have where you have it, say your prayers, and keep your powder dry!


:congrat: EXCELLENT first post! :congrat:

I'll echo your thoughts, just for my area of CN/NE Ohio...

Ohio is 282 people per square mile for population density; where I live, it's in the 10-25 range. If America ever re-embraced a manufacturing base, we'd be close enough to take advantage of all that provided, yet far enough away to avoid the 1st wave of 'zombies'


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## db2469

Believe it or not, where I live in northcentral PA is rural, no cities, few natural disasters, upwind from any nuclear fallout from the east coast city bombs, decent growing season, lots of deer and other game, streams, lakes, small secluded farms, houses...google Tioga and Potter County PA and you'll see what I mean...
DB


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## db2469

db2469 said:


> Believe it or not, where I live in northcentral PA is rural, no cities, few natural disasters, upwind from any nuclear fallout from the east coast city bombs, decent growing season, lots of deer and other game, streams, lakes, small secluded farms, houses...google Tioga and Potter County PA and you'll see what I mean...
> DB


Anyone else here living in that area or hoping to make it a BOL?
DB


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## Londoner

I live in London England. Here you will have no chance, the food runs out in three days max. Three days after that mobs are on the streets tearing the place apart looking for food. Once people get hungry anywhere in the world they are *extremely *dangerous. In rural areas it may take longer but its the same end result

Don't understimate the extreme danger presented by the hungry mob. If you think that you would be able to hide I would say you are deluded; your own neighbours will kill you. Your stash of food will make you a target.

Start a mental run through, this is the biggest exercise you can do and its free. Imagine how it would pan out. Hungry neighbours asking for food, breaking into houses looking for food, confrontation. Too late to flee then. Let your imagination run with it, visualisation they call it, it the most powerful form of preparedness but it will probably scare you. Lie on the bed and try to write it like a story in your head, start from the power cuts, the panic buying, the ATMs not being refilled and the gas stations running out.

Think of it as being like a film script you are preparing in you head.

Even the cabin in the woods scenario is not safe, locals will know about it and it won't be long before they start wondering about how much food that may be in the basement. Fishing gear .22rifles, even ammo, when they are hungry and have kids at home put yourself in their position, total desperation.

Most of Europe has nowhere that remote, its very crowded and people have no ability to fend for themselves, statistically we are overpopulated and look what happens with rats that are overpopulated when the food runs out. They kill and eat each other. Would we be any different?


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## brightstar

I might be bias, but I think the Appalachian mtns are ideal. Here we have a fairly mild climate with high of 90 in summer and snowfall usually less than 3 inches at a time in winter. Access to tons of water sources from lakes, streams, and rivers. Good hunting, good soil for growing, and lots of wild edibles. Most people here know the "old ways" and how to survive at least short term on their own. Lots of good land/homes up for grabs that would be easy to homestead on and defend if needed.


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## kyredneck

Of course we have our problems but I love my area here in E Central KY, folks are generally helpful and mindful/respectful of others, and, IMO, I credit the positive influence of the churches in the area for it. 

The more God/Christ loving folks that live in a given area, the safer that place should be, jmho.


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## machinist

You know what they say about opinions, everybody has one and they all stink. Well, here's mine.

We settled in southern Indiana, mostly because we know the area and have family here. This area is hilly and has a lot of hardwood forests, plenty of surface water, decent fishing and hunting, good farmland, plenty of rain for agriculture (most years!), some railroads (important for the future I think), and 4 distinct seasons with highs at 100 and winter lows in the single digits sometimes. We get less snow than 50 miles north of us, but tend to have ice storms in March. Even with this year's record drought, our garden and many farm crops survived.

It ain't perfect, but is a decent compromise for us. An important feature for us is the tradition of farming and the tradition of self reliance. Homesteading property is reasonably priced here, and property taxes are far less than more urban areas. Roads are well maintained. The legal environment for homeschooling is okay, people tell me.

The downside includes tornadoes, flash flooding in narrow valleys, icy roads in winter, and a few weeks of really HOT weather in the "dog days" of late summer. The New Madrid Fault http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone runs a couple hundred miles to the west of us, so we could see some activity from that, but the historic quake in the early 1800's did little serious damage here.

There are no nuclear power plants anywhere close, but you can't get away from them, really. We are out of the damage zone for hurricanes, the residents are pretty tolerant of racial and most cultural differences. It's sort of a ho-hum area in many ways, which I like.


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## cnsper

> If you think that you would be able to hide I would say you are deluded


Apparently you have not been to the American west. I could get lost out here until the day I die and never be found.

As for those that think heat is better, I can dress for the cold, think hides. Eskimos did not have big fires, they burned small lamps of whale oil and it is much colder there.

As far as Montana goes, it sucks! 13 months a year of snow and ice and wind that would blow down a sod house. Not to mention that there is no game or wildlife to speak of and the fishing stinks. No trees grow around here. Hollywood types moving here. Deer the size of rabbits and elk that walk UNDER the fences. Then there are speed goats. And don't forget about the bears. Not a good morning unless you have a sow with 2 cubs stand up on her hind legs at the bottom of your stairs to the front door when you open it. Moose if you can find them and wolves if they can find you.

Over all it is terrible, don't move here... No Vacancy!

Closest town to me is 6 miles away, no grocery store, no convenience store and no gas station. Under 40 year round residents.

Now as far as preparing, I am focusing more on the sustainable than the storage. I do have a few things stored but I can not live on rice beans and pasta very long. No meat for me is like no coffee for some others... LOL


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## gypsysue

Thanks, Cnsper! I really appreciate your comments. People think Montana is a survival wonderland, and it's NOT. It's a harsh climate, with snow most of the year, no nights warm enough, even in summer, to sleep without warm blankets. It's very difficult to garden in this dry climate that gets frost in every month of the year, and large game animals are NOT standing by every tree! You're right... Hollywood. 

Some people think "yeah, well, there's that 'mentality' thing, of being with like-minded people up there!" NOT! For one thing, Montana is packed full of Californians, Canadians, environmentalists, animal rights activists, tree huggers, liberals of all kinds (Don't believe me? The governor and both senators of Montana are all Democrat. Still think Montana is conservative?), and the preppers/survivalists that ARE here are paranoid and don't trust ANYONE, not even other preppers. Sometimes I think it's safer among the sheeple. 

I live among fellow preppers that plan to eliminate the competition after the SHTF. I didn't even know this until the 49-year old woman who lives on the property behind ours reassured me that we weren't on her list! I about fainted! The women of our 'neighborhood' (places are half a mile apart or more) met to discuss prepping, and most of them just wanted to discuss who they thought would be a danger after the SHTF, and what to do about it. I never went back. I'm probably on their lists!


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## kejmack

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and seeing all the comments by people from different parts of the country. I think it boils down to the fact that everyone has their own idea of what the best place is and it is usually where they live.


----------



## Jimmy24

kejmack said:


> I have really enjoyed reading this thread and seeing all the comments by people from different parts of the country. I think it boils down to the fact that everyone has their own idea of what the best place is and it is usually where they live.


I think you are correct.

My take is kinda like this.

If you are comfortable where you are and you can make it happen, then that is the best place for you. I just don't see one place being perfect overall.

I have been lucky to live in several different states and they all had their pluses and minuses. For now Mississippi will work just fine for me. But upstate NY or OK may be right for someone else. The main thing I guess is be as prepared as you can and be comfortable where you are.

Jimmy


----------



## machinist

I think the best place is the one that an individual KNOWS the best, which means they have already figured out how to cope with the nature of that place. Nothing like a lifetime of experience living somewhere to make you comfortable and confident in facing challenges. 

I know exactly how to deal with the normal problems around our neck of the woods in Indiana, but if I were transplanted to New Mexico, I'd be a lost dog. It would take something very significant to move me, although that is possible. 

Someone said, "It takes a REALLY big dog to whip a little dog, when he is on his own front porch". It is a combination of knowing the territory, confidence, and having decided that running is not an option. That produces a determination to survive coupled with knowledge of how to do so.


----------



## cnsper

There is one place that would be perfect.... Margaritaville


----------



## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER

I would think alaska........


----------



## resiek

North central pennsylvania would be your worst possible destination. Mean bears, mountain lions, smelly skunks, nasty snakes, fat men and ugly women. Move along folks, nothing to see here


----------



## hiwall

Ah, sunny Arizona. rattlesnakes, coral snakes, gila monsters, scorpions, tarantulas, wasps as big as a hummingbird, foot long centipedes, selection of poisonous spiders, "killer" bees, every plant has thorns, only three natural lakes(only one with permanent water), 50 million illegal aliens


----------



## cnsper

hiwall said:


> 50 million illegal aliens


Did they come over from Roswell?


----------



## RoadRash

Ontario Canada would like to be in Northern Ontario away from sheeple but not at this time BOL on shores of Lake erie good water source fish , some small prey, away from the masses, winters are harsh but we are prepared...


----------



## OutRidingFences

db2469 said:


> Believe it or not, where I live in northcentral PA is rural, no cities, few natural disasters, upwind from any nuclear fallout from the east coast city bombs, decent growing season, lots of deer and other game, streams, lakes, small secluded farms, houses...google Tioga and Potter County PA and you'll see what I mean...
> DB


God's Country! My husband used to work in Coudersport, and I fell in love with the area. My BOL is a little west of you with the same advantages.


----------



## mojo4

The best place? The CO WY NM UT area. The only major city is Denver and the gun laws are quite friendly. Plus the area has a strong tradition of self reliance and lots of open spaces. Plus CO is the headwater source for every major river in the southwest US. Lotsa streams and creeks too.


----------



## bugoutbob

Deleted a post I put up in error


----------



## JustCliff

My neck of the woods isn't too bad. Plenty of wood for heating. Plenty of water for drinking and irrigation. Doesn't get too cold but does get a bit hot and humid sometimes. I think my place is never highlighted on any doomer maps. Im far enough away from any nuclear targets, my place wont flood in the "polar shift". My biggest concern here is people but after a population reducing event, that would not be but so bad.


----------



## goshengirl

JustCliff, I think the Appalachian mindset in your area would also be a plus, depending on where in NC you are. (I know some areas have become inundated with transplants in the tech field.)


----------



## brightstar

goshengirl said:


> JustCliff, I think the Appalachian mindset in your area would also be a plus, depending on where in NC you are. (I know some areas have become inundated with transplants in the tech field.)


I agree. Us mountain folk in the Appalachians have survival ways passed down for generations.


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## gypsysue

mojo4 said:


> The best place? The CO WY NM UT area. The only major city is Denver and the gun laws are quite friendly. Plus the area has a strong tradition of self reliance and lots of open spaces. Plus CO is the headwater source for every major river in the southwest US. Lotsa streams and creeks too.


Oh, Puhh-leeeze. No offense, but Colorado and is so full of California transplants that the "strong tradition of self-reliance" is a thing of the past. You see way more of that in the mid-part of the nation...farm country, also with major cities few and far between. Name all the major cities in Kansas? Nebraska? Iowa?

Utah has Salt Lake City and the 100-mile urban sprawl along the Wasatch front, with over 1 million people. NM has Albuquerque.

The climate in the inter-mountain west is harsh. Cold, dry, and windy. Gardening is a huge challenge and despite the apparent 'abundance' of water, those of us who live out here don't seem to experience that in reality. Water is a growing problem.

A lot of that open country is open for a reason. It's inhospitable.


----------



## weedygarden

mojo4 said:


> The best place? The CO WY NM UT area. The only major city is Denver and the gun laws are quite friendly. Plus the area has a strong tradition of self reliance and lots of open spaces. Plus CO is the headwater source for every major river in the southwest US. Lotsa streams and creeks too.


I have always known Colorado to have a shortage of water. Water rights and water harvesting have been a huge challenge for more than a century.


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## goshengirl

gypsysue said:


> No offense, but Colorado and is so full of California transplants that the "strong tradition of self-reliance" is a thing of the past.


Yep. And Montana's going that way, too. Makes me so sad.


----------



## gypsysue

goshengirl said:


> Yep. And Montana's going that way, too. Makes me so sad.


That's for sure.


----------



## mojo4

weedygarden said:


> I have always known Colorado to have a shortage of water. Water rights and water harvesting have been a huge challenge for more than a century.


Well there is a great difference between water for a BOL and doing major farming operation. Yes, we don't have the water like some eastern states where crops can be grown without major irrigation infrastructure but for living and a small garden no problem. And yes, our state is overrun with CA idiots. I wouldn't mind so much but when they get here they want the same crappy bureaucratic gov here that they had there and never realize that the crappy gov is why they left in the first place. Oh well, what can you do??


----------



## hiwall

One of my sons is a plumber in the 4-corners area of CO. Many wells had problems this year(going dry, low water) and he installed many many cisterns. Of course Colorado is not alone in this drought problem.


----------



## mojo4

Apparently were getting close to dust bowl moisture levels. Even back in the farm belt states crops were withering away. We can probably expect a nice big fat jump in food prices this year. Yeah.


----------



## jsriley5

Definitely it has already been reported that production did not even meet let alone exceed use this year. Looks like america might finally be going on that diet we need.


----------



## BillM

Where the Lion lays down with the Lamb !

Heaven


----------



## clark_leach

I recently heard about a study that declared Maine the most peaceful (= safest?) state. I would also point out from experience that it is the dullest.


----------



## MsSage

mojo4 said:


> The best place? The CO WY NM UT area. The only major city is Denver and the gun laws are quite friendly. Plus the area has a strong tradition of self reliance and lots of open spaces. Plus CO is the headwater source for every major river in the southwest US. Lotsa streams and creeks too.


I just read this...ummm Co has gone left leaning anti gun ....NM hmmmm only good thing I can think of is I get a paycheck from them....
Wy if you can deal with the wind...it will really drive you crazy after its been blowing (strong over 45 mph ) for weeks. I KNOW same situation here.
No water, very little fuel source.....hard place to start up a gaden.....people are hmmm , ok this part of the world are not welcoming LOL I have been here 3 years and worked for almost 5 and just now getting to know some of the people. BUT then I keep to myself and dont drink and S/O is OTR so in all essences I am a single female which dont sit well with the other ladies. As if I would want any of the men around here...lazy drunks most of them are. The hard working honest ones are married and stay on the farm along with their wives. 
I would say northern Montana or Idaho would be good......


----------



## hiwall

I have spent alot of time in Wyoming.


----------



## gypsysue

MsSage said:


> I would say northern Montana or Idaho would be good......


Hahahahahaha! Have you ever been up here? Take everything you just wrote, about down there, and add the 8-month winters to it! We've got it all: liberals galore, drunks galore, water rights issues and drought, and wind and sub-zero temperatures...they say the only thing that stands between Montana and the arctic is a 3-wire fence. 

Gardening up here....yeah, we had frost in EVERY month last year, including five frosts in July. Sure, come on up and give it a shot. Oh, did I mention that the Californians have driven up the price of real estate in a huge way? That's easy to check. Look online!

If I had to pick one place to go where I thought everything would come together to make a great survival place, I'd pick the southern Appalachians. I lived in SE Kentucky from 1996 to 2002 and sometimes wish I never left.


----------



## Erick3758

Other than high taxes we are shielded from most of these issues here in the northeast.last year was the driest i ever remember .the pond was still wet.othert than winter the weather is very steady.not to many extreme events.it does get cold and snowy.if you have a big enough garden and can a lot it's easy to make it to next season.


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## kejmack

After following this thread for some time it has confirmed my decision to move to Texas! So glad I am here.


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## cnsper

I can tell you for those that are looking to move to another state after SHTF, good luck. There are states like Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico with VERY few roads crossing into the state. I would pretty much bet that the locals will have those roads blocked so unless you plan to go overland you will be stuck at the border. You may get a few miles into the state but one river crossing removed and you are stuck.


----------



## mojo4

Well gypsy sounds like MT has gone the way of CO. Too many libs escaping CA and forgetting their policies are the problem and bringing their politics with them like an STD. Still at least they can't ruin the scenery. Not yet anyhow.


----------



## gypsysue

mojo4 said:


> Well gypsy sounds like MT has gone the way of CO. Too many libs escaping CA and forgetting their policies are the problem and bringing their politics with them like an STD. Still at least they can't ruin the scenery. Not yet anyhow.


Yep. They've changed the state and they've driven up real estate prices more than double in the last ten years. Even the collapse of the housing market didn't bring them back down. The Californians can still sell their homes there and come here and pay cash, even for home $200,000 and higher. After they're here a while they're as broke as the rest of us, but still have their Cali mentality.

And yes, to what Cnspr said. If you're bugging to a place like MT after the SHTF, you won't make it far, even and probably especially if you stay off the roads. That's if you make it out of your home state.

If you want to be somewhere else _after_ the SHTF, you need to get your butt in gear and move there _before_ it does! If you _really believe the SH is about to HTF, you'll find a way past your previous excuses for not moving. There is no 'impossible', there's just people who won't let go of one thing or another in order to bring about the move. Sacrifices might have to be made.

Decide what is really the most important to you. And remember to also keep living today while you plan for tomorrow._


----------



## dixiemama

Gypsy- I posted a bunch of properties that are for sell in the area.... 

As far as living here goes, makes sure you have a reliable water source if the power is out/ lots of city water here. Hunting is great, deer hunters always tag out, bear has come back in a big way and so has elk. You can get 30 acres for less than $40k with a pond or natural spring. 

Our BOL isn't here bc we don't have a reliable water source in the best of conditions (shallow well, not safe for drinking, just showers and dishes/washing clothes). Our BOL has 3 water sources and low taxes to boot!


----------



## helicopter5472

Wow, I live in central Maine, Please don't come here.... Summers can be muggy hot, winters the wind chill hits below what the thermometer reads, the snow builds up, the skeeters are as big as those prehistoric flying things, The moose are angry, the wild turkeys attack your pets, I hear noises in the woods, I think there maybe a family of big hairy sasquaches, the rain doesn't stop in May and June, The black flies swarm and attack so you can't mow the lawn. There is more Mercury in the fish than your thermostat, "thanks to all you upper state coal burners". your car lasts about three years before it rusts out, taxes are high,lots of redheads roaming around, the casino machines are way to tight, Oh yea I found out all that water where we get our lobsters is polluted with salt...


----------



## gabbyj310

I moved from Fl back to Ky after 30 years.Summers can get hot and winter sure has those cold winterey gray days..But all in all they balance out.Hurricanes never bothered me because I know what to do,BUT....tornado scare the "pee-water"out of me,so being prepared is a must!!!!Calif not only has Earthquakes,mudslides,and wildfires.The deep South has hurricanes,droughts,and lightning.North ..COLD.So it's a "BE PREPARED"regardless of where you live....In Ky being "in the middle"has many advantages......and it seems real safe as far as people.


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## cnsper

Alaska. Only 2 tornadoes up there in nearly 50 years. It's the live critters that you have to worry about up there.


----------



## d_saum

Late to the party.. but I'll throw my suggestion in the hat as well... NC. And I say this NOT because I live here.. but because I'm from NY, and have lived all over the country. NC has mild winters, pretty ugly summers, but really nice spring and fall. If you are inland like I am, you don't have to worry about hurricanes and we get virtually no tornadoes. We get a decent amount of rain (which I like), an occasional snow, and a lot of sun for growing vegetables! 

NC is pretty lush with streams, rivers, and lakes all over the place. Lots of woods and natural land. Plenty to hunt. Land is fairly inexpensive if you are out away from the cities (which, for a BOL, I'd think you would be). Overall.. I am ecstatic about living here and with all my traveling, I couldn't imagine a better place to be if the SHTF! 

I could go on.. but.. this thread is pretty old.. and if you are still looking, let me know and I'll tell you more.


----------



## tonedef

Nc has frt brag a prime nuc spot


----------



## d_saum

tonedef said:


> Nc has frt brag a prime nuc spot


You really think we are going to get nuked?  By whom? If it's anyone other than Russia or China, they are going to either try an EMP attack, which in that case, it doesn't matter where you are if it's within the line of sight.... OR.. they are going to have a limited number of missiles and they are going to target DC, NY, etc...


----------



## gabbyj310

I've read through most of the post and have several comments too.First off one of the reasons it's so darn hot is BUILDING on the coast block the sea air(Fl) from flowing.Plus all that concrete.I moved from Ga because the "Pine Pollen" almost killed me.I know Ky has "Bluegrass,pine trees,tobacco plants soybeans and ALL kind of dust"and the summer are hot,but being raised in La. there is hot and extra hot!Alaska would FREEZE me to death,so I'm lookin for a a nice shade tree near the river(or lake),Plenty of water and sunshine just enough cold(more than I like) to have good growing seasons.Costa Rico or any other country is a BIG HUGE NO....... Reason being many years ago a friend invested EVERYTHING in a small bar and realestate(in the Islands), he had to crawl out on his knees at 3am with just the clothes on his back and never recouped anything due to political unrest,so if the SHTF, here why wouldn't it hit there????


----------



## tonedef

No I don't think we will get nuked but as a general term ie nuc I mean that it is a prime spot for attack on large scale by foreign or domestic Any large military base is a target. Just my opinion Sorry your eyes rolled to that back of your head on that one lol


----------



## overactor

Im in nc Right by bragg. Im not a fan of fayetteville but job security is pretty good in this area. Ideally Id like to get out where the rolling hills/foot hills meet the mountains or near bedford pa


----------



## Startingout-Blair

overactor said:


> Im in nc Right by bragg. Im not a fan of fayetteville but job security is pretty good in this area. Ideally Id like to get out where the rolling hills/foot hills meet the mountains or near bedford pa


I'm about 30 minutes north of Bedford in Blair County. Love it here


----------



## readytogo

*What are you willing to trade off for safety?.*

People have always ask that question, since the beginning of time, and the answer is simply where ever you`re standing, safety has many characteristics associated with the type of life you want to live ,if you moved out of your area you will loose all your friends, knowledge of establish surroundings, weather, establish routines , etc., is a lot to think about.
My logic here is that I already know my enemy, why move and have to face a new one that I know nothing about.


----------



## Tyler520

The trick is determining what you consider "Ideal." It is often a "this for that" scenario, e.g. seclusion in Alaska, but too cold for many productive activities for large portions of the year, or perhaps you prefer the politics of Arizona, but it is too hot and lacking in water to productively grow a bountiful garden and raise livestock in the summer. Or, you chance earthquakes and high cost of living on the coast of Cali, but have an ideal climate for farming and livestock.

Are you concerned with societal issues? (crime, density, threat of war, etc.) Or are you concerned with climate? (too hot, cold, humid, arid to grow food, etc.)

I have been mulling over the idea of using my GIS software to put together a program that could overlay some of these designators: plug in your desired inputs, and it would should you overlays of where these ideal settings take place (e.g. tell it to show me where max hi temp is < or = 85*F, max low is > or = 25*F, minimal flood chances, etc., etc., etc.


----------



## cnsper

overactor said:


> Im in nc Right by bragg. Im not a fan of fayetteville but job security is pretty good in this area. Ideally Id like to get out where the rolling hills/foot hills meet the mountains or near bedford pa


First of all.... That would put you west of the Mississippi because there are no mountains back east..... :laugh::laugh::laugh::eyebulge:

I live at a higher elevation than most of that "mountain" range. The highest point is just under 6700 feet and our MOUNTAIN passes are that high in some places.


----------



## stanb999

cnsper said:


> First of all.... That would put you west of the Mississippi because there are no mountains back east..... :laugh::laugh::laugh::eyebulge:
> 
> I live at a higher elevation than most of that "mountain" range. The highest point is just under 6700 feet and our MOUNTAIN passes are that high in some places.


:congrat::congrat::congrat: You live where elevation means nothing. Back east in the Appalachians north of the PA border, above 3500 Ft you have boreal forest, After 5000 ft you have treeless rock. At the highest peaks the weather is the worst in the WORLD.(http://www.mountwashington.org/)

I guess your mountains are MILD and Child like. :kiss: Maybe you shouldn't advertise your softness.


----------



## stanb999

overactor said:


> Im in nc Right by bragg. Im not a fan of fayetteville but job security is pretty good in this area. Ideally Id like to get out where the rolling hills/foot hills meet the mountains or near bedford pa


I would caution anyone planning on Bugging out to the Appalachians, It's an unforgiving range with torrents of rain or Mountains of snow. The other big thing is the general damp cold conditions... Hard to stay warm when you can never dry out. 45 degrees soaking wet will kill. That happens in all Months above 2000Ft.


----------



## Turtle

Brice said:


> According to me,
> 
>  Louisiana
>  Maine
>  Maryland
> Massachusetts
> Michigan
> 
> are best places to live.


I can promise you that Maryland does not belong on that list.


----------



## tsrwivey

Brice said:


> According to me,
> 
> • Louisiana
> • Maine
> • Maryland
> •Massachusetts
> •Michigan
> 
> are best places to live.


Have you been to Louisiana? Or any of those states? What is your criteria?


----------



## BlueShoe

Three of those would be on my list of places not to go to. My uninformed opinion would say Vermont would be above all those New England states mentioned. New Hampshire too. Louisiana has resources and shipping ports.

I wonder about Hawaii, but I doubt a Haole would be welcome when it comes down to it.


----------



## LincTex

Robertson County
Brazos County
Burleson County


----------



## Jaspar

*far Northeast*

Far northeast Iowa. Rivers/streams,rolling hills, steep wooded bluffs, great soil, sparsely populated, abundant wildlife, plenty of wood for the winter. Maybe a county over from the Mississippi, but I would be more than comfortable up there.


----------



## AfleetAlex

If you actually want to know, rather than guess; Joel is the man to teach you. 




My BOL is northern MN, 2 miles from Lake Superior. Lots of natural resources and the zombies won't last the first winter.


----------



## weedygarden

AfleetAlex said:


> If you actually want to know, rather than guess; Joel is the man to teach you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My BOL is northern MN, 2 miles from Lake Superior. Lots of natural resources and the zombies won't last the first winter.


Thank you for this. There have been so many responses which are about where people WANT to live, not the safest places to live.


----------



## Quills

SW Manitoba is bad. Seriously, no one wants to come here. We've got nothing. Everyone should look elsewhere. Really ;-)


----------



## hiwall

Obviously the safest place to live for most people is in the general area where they currently live. In that area they would know the local weather patterns well enough to predict the weather. They would know all the surrounding water sources. They would know where to find native wildlife and fish for a food source. They would know the local edible wild plants and where to look for them. I (like some others) have lived in two or more widely separated areas so we could honestly say which we would choose to live. Having lived not too far from AfleetAlex BOL, I would agree it has some pluses but not enough for me There are very few places without the threat of severe weather that could totally wipe out your house(Arizona is one).


----------



## interacting

Strategic Relocation is discussed a book by Joel Skousen. Joel Skousen has served as a relocation consultant for over 30 years designing high security residences and retreats. It's a good reference, and available on Amazon.com.


----------



## FatTire

Add my vote for Strategic Relocation, great book. My awesome and amazing SO has it, we have both read it, good, highly informative stuff.


----------



## Idaholady

Stan and Holly Deyo have published a book called 'Prudent Places, USA' Look at the list of questions they ask you to consider if you are thinking about moving.

http://standeyo.com/

As agreed by one of the posters; all states have their issues; you just have to choose which one you can live with....

So, read the questions they've listed at the website and decide for yourself.
I'm not buying the book, because I believe at this time; I am living in a fairly safe area. However, none of us will be exempt from the radiation from Fukishima, no matter where we live.


----------



## HarleyRider

I think the best place to live is somewhere in the Orion Sector; possibly System P326, 4th planet from their sun, commonly known as the planet OutaDoj. 

People always tell us "Get Outta Dodge". Actually, the planet OutaDoj seems like THE place to be. I hear that they don't even have politicians there and that the vines on the trees are actually paracord.


----------



## helicopter5472

HarleyRider said:


> I think the best place to live is somewhere in the Orion Sector; possibly System P326, 4th planet from their sun, commonly known as the planet OutaDoj.
> 
> People always tell us "Get Outta Dodge". Actually, the planet OutaDoj seems like THE place to be. I hear that they don't even have politicians there and that the vines on the trees are actually paracord.


Long as there is air, water, and good growin soil,,,,, I tried to get the old space ship started but I think battery needs attention and I think I should have put that can of fuel conditioner in perhaps a year ago but I think with a little help from the backyard still she will fire right up. I'll grab my BOB and be ready when ya call...... :cheers:


----------



## Gabby

I have to agree with sourdough I am also from Alaska and have lived in the arctic to wasilla and would say Alaska is by far the safest. The most versatile and abundant least populated do it yourself state a person can find. That's why it's called " The Last Frontier"


----------



## helicopter5472

Gabby said:


> I have to agree with sourdough I am also from Alaska and have lived in the arctic to wasilla and would say Alaska is by far the safest. The most versatile and abundant least populated do it yourself state a person can find. That's why it's called " The Last Frontier"


As long as you don't care about the cold... Very little growing season. There are 7 or 8 military sites worth nuking, and loaded with potential volcano sites. It was given 2 stars for ratings in the Strategic Location Book.
I live in Maine so the cold is here nor there, also a short growing season, so I feel like I'm already in Alaska, lots of treed land, and plenty of water. Its only given a three star rating. I think a lot will change in the near future across the western half of the country due to water shortage. 
Still Alaska is one of the best places to bug out too. It's the "try to find me and survive State"


----------



## zookeeper

Haven't posted in a while, but have enjoyed reading the threads and increasing my knowledge. So....

http://www.survivalblog.com/retreatareas.html
I think Rawles breakdown is a good resource. Also, pay close attention to the location of nuke power plants. If the system collapses, some or many will have a meltdown. 

Also, Alaska. I love the remoteness, rugged scenery, etc. But without supplies from the mainland, only the most hardy will survive. Super cold/long winters tax the system. Heating, food, your own body. Good luck.
There are quite a few locations in the south just west of the Mississippi that are low population, rural and out of harms way. My fav is western AR.


----------



## Cast-Iron

zookeeper said:


> Haven't posted in a while, but have enjoyed reading the threads and increasing my knowledge. So....
> 
> http://www.survivalblog.com/retreatareas.html
> I think Rawles breakdown is a good resource. Also, pay close attention to the location of nuke power plants. If the system collapses, some or many will have a meltdown.
> 
> Also, Alaska. I love the remoteness, rugged scenery, etc. But without supplies from the mainland, only the most hardy will survive. Super cold/long winters tax the system. Heating, food, your own body. Good luck.
> There are quite a few locations in the south just east of the Mississippi that are low population, rural and out of harms way. My fav is western AR.


I must have an old map. Just exactly where in western AR will you also find yourself east of the Mississippi?


----------



## zookeeper

Cast-Iron said:


> I must have an old map. Just exactly where in western AR will you also find yourself east of the Mississippi?


:dunno: Thanks, typo corrected.


----------



## cnsper

Alaska may have a short growing season but the long days and the fertile soil allow them to grow some of the largest veggies in the world. Squash, cabbage and carrots to name a few.

Well at least when it hits the fan and everyone moves south, I will have this place to myself....


----------



## musketjim

My family has adapted well to interior Alaska, gardening, poultry etc.  But we have so much military here that martial law would be a complete lockdown. Excessive police force numbers, state troopers, city police, university police, pipeline security. Helicopters and military aircraft are a constant companion. As long as you are out in the sticks you are alright, very little civilization. But that also means very little resupply. Be prepared have some skills for survival. There won't be much of an influx of people when it all burns down. To get thru Canada a passport is needed. I think the SE portion of the state is preferable island hopping with elk and deer and bear. Ocean living with seafood availability.:2thumb: Every place has it's plus and minuses hopefully we're at BOL in advance and take our chances there.:cheers:


----------



## mikkyberten

I really think the areas of California are having high amount of crime rate. Florida is too humid.


----------



## Viking

As the Survival blog posting on Retreat Areas mentions that in the late 1970's the Rogue River Valley area in S.W. Oregon was on Mel Tappan's list as #1 that posting now says Idaho is #1. One of my neighbors bought 40 acres in the mid Northern area of Idaho and he told me that when he was there he saw moose and a lot of other edible wildlife. S.W. Oregon is still a pretty good area but the I-5 corridor being basically a Western NAFTA highway brings a lot of negatives, for one it makes a great place for people escaping California to swamp quickly. Eastern Oregon has some great growing areas and are often winter locked so one would really have the preps stored for long periods of staying at home. An easy accessible, abundant water sources is the number one issue wherever you plant yourself, even here in Oregon there are areas where the water table is just too deep to make it feasible for survival with no electricity for pumping.


----------



## cnsper

A friend and I were talking today about the possible flooding when all the snow melts... 

Well I told him that if you lived at the head of the river instead of the mouth, there is nothing to worry about.

So the safest area is on the side of a hill, not in the bottom of a valley. That is unless that hill is in California and all the vegetation has been cut down.


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## Viking

cnsper said:


> So the safest area is on the side of a hill, not in the bottom of a valley. That is unless that hill is in California and all the vegetation has been cut down.


Or all burnt. Here in Oregon I have seen hillsides slide that had timber on them, when it rains long and hard so that even rotted root holes look like drinking fountains running continually, then the soil is totally saturated. That happens once and awhile on our property and why I have diagonal ditches that run surface water to the sides of our property. It's scary when you hear water running on the higher portions of a slope behind our home that's almost as loud as hearing Cow Creek over 500 feet South of us when it's bank to bank and almost overflowing. Yes, we are on the side of a hill and that's a very good thing because if the dam way upstream ever breaks we'll still be safe, others living on the flats either side of the creek will be in harms way.


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## jrich136

I always thought it depends on the biome your in, like for instance in a jungle or a forest the best place to be is right on the outside/outskirts of the area


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## weedygarden

*Top 10 Safest states in America*

http://www.movoto.com/blog/top-ten/safest-states-in-america/
This web site has an interactive map. When you roll over each state, the statistics for that state appear to the right.



> Most Stressed States Map
> 
> There's safety to be found in small communities, big cities, and caring neighborhoods in just about every state. You may wonder, though, which state reigns supreme in safety? That's what the Movoto Real Estate Blog is here to find out. As you can see on our map, some states are perfect for people seeking out security and peace, while others are a little bit more safety challenged. But which were our top 10? The safest states in the nation were:
> 
> 1. New Hampshire
> 2. Idaho
> 3. Vermont
> 4. North Dakota
> 5. Maine
> 6. Iowa (Tie)
> 6. South Dakota (Tie)
> 8. Wyoming
> 9. Minnesota (Tie)
> 9. Virginia (Tie)
> 
> As you can see, the Eastern states really made a good showing for this list and have solid stats to back up their rankings. What sort of stats, you may ask? We'll go over that in our next section which examines our methodology.
> 
> How We Created This Map
> 
> In order to get these results, we used the 2010 U.S. Census and the 2012 FBI Uniform Crime Report to gather what we deemed relevant safety information. That information included:
> •Murders per 100,000 people
> •Violent Crimes per 100,000 people
> •Property Crime per 100,000 people
> •Total Crime per 100,000 people
> 
> All of these were collected over a five-year period, so as to get a more fair and consistent look at crime in each state. Then, we ranked each state in each category, and compiled all the rankings for each state into one big deal score. A Big Deal Score closer to one was considered better. The state with the best Big Deal Score became our safest place and, without a doubt, that state was New Hampshire.
> 
> Let's examine in more depth why each state in our top 10 deserved the title of safest in the nation.
> 
> 1. New Hampshire: Breathe Easy Today And Sleep Well Tonight
> 
> It's pretty easy to see why New Hampshire took the No. 1 spot. With merely one murder per 100,000 people, that stat earned this state the first place ranking for murders per capita. but the good scores didn't stop there.
> 
> New Hampshire also had the third lowest violent crime and the seventh lowest property crime on our list. All that came out to this state having the fifth lowest total crime overall. So if you're looking to worry less and sleep like a rock at night, you might be looking for The Granite State.
> 
> 2. Idaho: You Can Relax, Your Stuff Is Safe
> 
> Like our No. 1 state, Idaho offered few murders and low violent crime as well. Ranking fifth for murders and seventh for violent crime, residents here should be able to live their lives without fearing for personal safety.
> 
> This home of famous potatoes should also be famous for their property crime, which is the third lowest in the nation. Those rankings mean that Idaho had the third lowest total crime in the nation and earned our No. 2 ranking.
> 
> 3. Vermont: A Non-Violent Place, Naturally
> 
> Our third place state of Vermont had a few really stand out scores. The third lowest murders per 100,000 people and the second lowest violent crime mean that this state is all about loving your neighbor rather than causing them harm. In short, this is a nonviolent state, which we're sure doesn't surprise residents at all.
> 
> The property crime here was a little higher, only ranking 12th. Still, that's a very good score and Vermont managed to rank sixth safest for overall crime on our list.
> 
> 4. North Dakota: Legendary For Safety
> 
> Way up north, you're going to find a state that has a lot of pride as well as few thefts of any sort. To be more clear, North Dakota ranked second safest for property crime, with merely 65,249 crimes of this type total or 1,949 per 100,000 people.
> 
> The good marks didn't stop there. Violent crime was low here as well, ranking ninth. In fact, North Dakota has the second lowest total crime on our list, and didn't finish higher simply because the murders per capita were ranked slightly higher at No. 11.
> 
> Compared to places like Louisiana, however, which ranked last in that category, North Dakota is still looking mighty safe.
> 
> 5. Maine: They Wouldn't Hurt A Fly
> 
> Speaking of non-violent states, it would be hard not to mention Maine for that particular criterion. For starters, this state had the lowest violent crime ranking, at only 121 of those crimes per 100,000 people. It also didn't hurt that the murders here were the eighth lowest on our list.
> 
> While Maine did do a little worse in property crime, where it ranked 14th, this state had the 10th lowest overall crime and is a perfect place for people who want to not fret about personal safety and space.
> 
> 6. Iowa: The American Heartland's Got Heart
> 
> Definitely one of our more populated states, Iowa still knew how to keep its residents safe. For starters, this place had the second lowest murders, at less than two per 100,000 people. The property crime as also very low, ranking ninth.
> 
> The violent crime ranked 16th, which is a little higher than others in our top 10, but was still better than places like connecticut and New Jersey. Overall, Iowa had the ninth lowest crime rate on our list, which was good enough for our sixth place for safest states.
> 
> 6. South Dakota: Where You Can Trust Your Neighbor
> 
> It may be a little less safe than its northern neighbor, and it may be tied with Iowa, but South Dakota still knew a thing or two about security.The standout ranking here was in property crime, which ranked No. 1 with merely 1,856 crimes per 100,000 people. South Dakotans, your stuff is seriously safe.
> 
> Unfortunately, the other two rankings, murder and violent crime, were both a big higher than many others in our top 10, at 19th and 15th respectively. Still, both those rankings were better than Pennsylvania and Montana, so locals of this strong state can still stand proud.
> 
> 8. Wyoming: Like No Place On Earth For Safety
> 
> For people looking for overall good scores in safety, it would be prudent not to overlook Wyoming. With beautiful landscapes and the fifth lowest violent crime, locals can enjoy the scenery with ease. The ninth lowest murders, only two per 100,000 people, certainly didn't hurt either.
> 
> There was a bit of property crime here, ranking 13th, but these were still solid rankings across the board. If you're looking to stay safe and gain some solitude, you could do a whole lot worse than Wyoming.
> 
> 9. Minnesota: A Real Star In The North
> 
> Minnesota offered a lot in the way of personal safety for its locals. With only 217 crimes per 100,000 people and only a little over two murders per 100,000 people, there really wasn't much violence to be found here.
> 
> The property crime was a little higher, ranking 18th with 2,638 crimes of that sort per 100,000 people. However, that ranking is still better than most of the nation, and Minnesota shone as a real star on this list.
> 9. Virginia: It's For Lovers, Not Fighters
> 
> Virginia posted some rather fascinating numbers. With a little over four murders per 100,000 people, this state ranked 26th for that category, higher than all others in the top 10. Still, that's a fairly low number compared to many other states, and the other rankings are much stronger.
> 
> For example, Virginia had the sixth lowest violent crime and the 10th lowest property crime on our list. That brought this place to eighth in total crimes per 100,000 people, and kept it at No. 9 overall. Virginia does claim it's for lovers, and the numbers seem to back it up on that.
> 
> It can feel like a big scary world out there, especially if you check news websites, but rest assured that there are still some very safe places to be found. More than that, there are some very safe states.
> 
> New Hampshire locals should be proud to know they're in the nation's safest state, and should breathe easy tonight as they keep that in mind.


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## weedygarden

*The Most Armed Counties in the U.S.*

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/map-of-most-armed-counties/



> This map shows the top 30 counties with the highest percentage of residents that keep guns in their homes.
> 
> The most heavily armed county in the US is (drum roll, please) - Faribanks North Star Borough, Alaska. Second place goes to Tooele County, Utah and third is Nez Perce County, Arizona. City-Data.com compiled the list (We should note there's no source posted for the city-data list) and Reddit user Ramsesses_Deux created the map.
> 
> Texas, one of the most gun friendly states in America, is surprisingly not one of the top 10 most armed counties. The Lone Star State's first entry is Harris County at no. 73.
> 
> Here are the top 30 most armed counties:
> 
> 1.Fairbanks North Star Borough, AK, pop. 82,840: 59.1%
> 
> 2.Tooele County, UT, pop. 40,735: 59.1%
> 
> 3.Nez Perce County, ID, pop. 37,410: 59.0%
> 
> 4.Armstrong County, PA, pop. 72,392: 57.6%
> 
> 5.Rapides Parish, LA, pop. 126,337: 52.8%
> 
> 6.Teller County, CO, pop. 20,555: 52.3%
> 
> 7.Darlington County, SC, pop. 67,394: 52.1%
> 
> 8.Franklin County, VT, pop. 45,417: 51.7%
> 
> 9.Randolph County, NC, pop. 130,454: 51.1%
> 
> 10.Canyon County, ID, pop. 131,441: 50.9%
> 
> 11.Anchorage Municipality, AK, pop. 260,283: 50.0%
> 
> 12.Laramie County, WY, pop. 81,607: 49.6%
> 
> 13.Davis County, UT, pop. 238,994: 48.8%
> 
> 14.Yellowstone County, MT, pop. 129,352: 48.7%
> 
> 15.Franklin County, PA, pop. 129,313: 48.5%
> 
> 16.Pennington County, SD, pop. 88,565: 48.5%
> 
> 17.Terrebonne Parish, LA, pop. 104,503: 47.9%
> 
> 18.Ouachita Parish, LA, pop. 147,250: 47.6%
> 
> 19.Florence County, SC, pop. 125,761: 47.6%
> 
> 20.Orange County, VT, pop. 28,226: 47.0%
> 
> 21.Calcasieu Parish, LA, pop. 183,577: 46.4%
> 
> 22.Weber County, UT, pop. 196,533: 46.3%
> 
> 23.Kanawha County, WV, pop. 200,073: 45.2%
> 
> 24.Ada County, ID, pop. 300,904: 45.0%
> 
> 25.Pulaski County, AR, pop. 361,474: 44.7%
> 
> 26.Minnehaha County, SD, pop. 148,281: 44.7%
> 
> 27.Westmoreland County, PA, pop. 369,993: 44.0%
> 
> 28.Pinal County, AZ, pop. 179,727: 43.6%
> 
> 29.St. Tammany Parish, LA, pop. 191,268: 42.5%
> 
> 30.Caddo Parish, LA, pop. 252,161: 42.2%


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## weedygarden

*Deer - Car Collisions by state*

http://www.wideopenspaces.com/see-map-shows-odds-deer-car-collisions-state/



> Here are the probabilities of deer-car collisions in each region of the US.
> 
> This interesting map from State Farm shows the probability of crashing into a deer in each state. The map is based on data from 2012-2013. During that period, there was an overall 4.3 percent decrease in deer-vehicle collisions.
> 
> State Farm also determined the odds of an American driver colliding with a deer on the road is 1 in 174. They haven't yet released the 2013-2014 numbers, but it's probably not a dramatic difference from what you'll see below.
> 
> There are some interesting trends to pay attention to. For one, the southwestern and westernmost states have the lowest risk of deer-car collisions. The northern states from Montana to Michigan and the Appalachian region in the East have a high likelihood of deer-driver collisions.
> 
> And for the seventh year in a row, West Virginia ranked number one for the highest risk of deer collisions. The odds of a driver hitting a deer there are 1 in 41. Montana comes in second.
> 
> Also, the state with the lowest risk of deer-car collisions is Arizona.


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## crabapple

With all due respect, it is HEAVEN!
Any other place you can be killed in your sleep, if you are lucky.
Worse thing can happen if you are awake.
Trust no one, question everyone & everything.


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## weedygarden

crabapple said:


> With all due respect, it is HEAVEN!
> Any other place you can be killed in your sleep, if you are lucky.
> Worse thing can happen if you are awake.
> Trust no one, question everyone & everything.


Yes, but the only way to select that as the place to choose to relocate to is not what this who thread is about. This who thread is about finding places to live on earth.


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## Country Living

I wish there would be a Part B to each category identifying how long the miscreant has lived in that state (less than five years, less than ten years). Texas has had such an influx of people from other states it does beg the question if they are the ones bringing such misdeeds to our fair state.

Please don't let this morph into an immigration discussion. I'm talking about the migration of people between states. Most of the migrating people are honest with good values and work ethics. Some are not. It's the number of "some are not" that would be of interest. 

For instance - for Texas - there were 4.94 murders per 100k on that map. A subset could be of those 4.94 murders, 2.23 were committed by people who lived in the state less than five years and 4.12 murders (aggregated) were committed by people who have been in the state less than ten years. 

The data would be interesting although not actionable.


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## cnsper

Well we did not make that list and the chances of hitting a deer are very high so this is NOT a good place to move to.


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## crabapple

weedygarden said:


> Yes, but the only way to select that as the place to choose to relocate to is not what this who thread is about. This who thread is about finding places to live on earth.


weedygarden, I am sorry.
I reread my creepy post.
I do not know what I was thinking.


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## zookeeper

I notice a lot of these are northern locals with folks born and raised there. Good for them!
Anyone else better get ready for the Siberian winter. If you're blood or body system can't handle it...it will be brutal. 
That is all.....carry on.

To sum up......
_"Are you frigging crazy!!"_
Yeah, we'll set up camp in the Canadian Rockies. Grow crops year round. Goats, chickens...Disney movies!


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## Viking

I don't think the ability to grow gardens was factored into this "best place to live" listing. If it did Idaho would be a high number, at least for the lower half of the state, as you go North, more mountainous and cold. Then there's Wyoming, been there, have family and friends living there, but for me, no thanks. Cold, windy and too close to Yellowstone. When I saw the freeway on ramp gates and signs posted about not going past them when they are closed, that was enough for me, if I have to buy a Snowcat to get around in winter, no thanks.


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## weedygarden

Viking said:


> I don't think the ability to grow gardens was factored into this "best place to live" listing. If it did Idaho would be a high number, at least for the lower half of the state, as you go North, more mountainous and cold. Then there's Wyoming, been there, have family and friends living there, but for me, no thanks. Cold, windy and too close to Yellowstone. When I saw the freeway on ramp gates and signs posted about not going past them when they are closed, that was enough for me, if I have to buy a Snowcat to get around in winter, no thanks.


Why oh, why oh, Wyoming?

One of my cousins has 40 acres in Wyoming. He has planted numerous trees and he has none. The wind just takes them out.

I also know people who cannot grow a garden and have tried for years. I have heard that the only way to have a garden is to have a greenhouse.

There are ramp gates in much of the north. They have to have them because some people have NO sense about when to stay off the road. If roads are not declared closed and then the ramps closed, there would be people out there who would try to go.

I read a story about a young man who got stuck on the road in a snow storm. He had no coat, and he had no socks on. He lost his toes and almost lost his life when he ended up sleeping in his car overnight. Living the simple life for many now means you have nothing you don't need right now. They wouldn't want the clutter of a blanket, sleeping bag or winter coat, would they?


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## weedygarden

crabapple said:


> weedygarden, I am sorry.
> I reread my creepy post.
> I do not know what I was thinking.


Crabapple, it is all okay. I have made comments that I later wondered what I was thinking. I have also felt really irritated by comments and want to snap back at people. That is never good.

If you read through all the posts on this thread you will see that some people have really missed the mark of what the topic is about. I really wanted to do a good investigation of the places you might consider when looking to move to a homestead or new location. I really wanted to make a map of nuclear plants and the area that would be affected by a meltdown or disaster, volcanoes, earthquake prone zones, etc.

I thought it was a good preparedness topic for discussion.


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## Lake Windsong

weedygarden said:


> Crabapple, it is all okay. I have made comments that I later wondered what I was thinking.


Me too...but Uncle Joe makes those disappear.


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## Viking

weedygarden said:


> Crabapple, it is all okay. I have made comments that I later wondered what I was thinking. I have also felt really irritated by comments and want to snap back at people. That is never good.
> 
> If you read through all the posts on this thread you will see that some people have really missed the mark of what the topic is about. I really wanted to do a good investigation of the places you might consider when looking to move to a homestead or new location. I really wanted to make a map of nuclear plants and the area that would be affected by a meltdown or disaster, volcanoes, earthquake prone zones, etc.
> 
> I thought it was a good preparedness topic for discussion.


We did our own research on where to live, long before we moved here to S.W. Oregon. What was interesting is finding nuclear facilities in places I didn't think they would be. As for earthquakes, we get them off the coast line be it seems like we never feel them when it happens, that's probably a good thing and volcanoes, Mount Mazama, Crater Lake, is probably the closest possible one that could go off but is far enough away that a pyroclastic flow wouldn't reach us, ash, maybe.


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## txcatlady

LincTex said:


> Robertson County
> Brazos County
> Burleson County


I agree, I live right beside those counties! Looking at all the comments, I am right where I want to be! Only move would be farther away from where we are to a few miles farther back in the woods in the middle of my acreage. I get envious sometimes about people shopping for all the cool stuff that they can get on sale, estate sales where they get wonderful cast iron and so on. There is nothing like that around here. Just country poor folks. Newbies moving in on our county road which is 11 miles from town. I feel like most of these will move back to Houston when things get bad as most are older than I am. But I am on the land I grew up in and plan for my ashes to be near here also. husband built this house 6 years ago to be closer to my mom. We just moved across I45 from other side of county.


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## weedygarden

*This is definitive!*

From http://survivalblog.com/ today, in the Odds & Sods section, was a link to this document. Since it is 132 pages long, I will not be pasting it here! But it is a PDF, rendering it safer than many websites. This is an excellent document which goes over many of the things to consider when relocating: taxes, nuclear, temperatures, etc.

https://gordonblaine.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/survival-homestead-one-beta.pdf


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## StevieQ

*this is the*

Problem with establishing safe havens and posting the info in book form on the web etc is, when SHF happens everybody that read that info will head there, this is what some refer to as the waterhole theory. I for one am glad these books are written, it's like a hot fishing hole, once everyone hears about it, they will fish it out! definitely places to avoid!

there two things a perfect thing has in my eyes

A grocery store................wildlife and fish in numbers that are quit plentiful

Clean water........we all live down stream, you want be as close to the bubbling source as possible

That is it, if you have that you are set, for now and hunker down!


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## readytogo

*Safe from What???????????*

Safe;secure,protected,out of harm's way, harmless, dependable, wow that is a lot to think about especially when we are talking about a location ;site,place,spot scene,locality,position.So in my opinion and choice I would chose the middle of nowhere ,alone and desolated with not even a rock to trip over and no one to come to my rescue in case I happen to well, trip. A military base to me is one of the safest places to be, Ft Hood proved me wrong, a school and we know what happen in Columbine, anywhere and at any time a disaster can occurred whether by nature or human hand, I know of people who have moved from Miami to avoid hurricanes and got wipe out by tornados in Oklahoma, my friend moved from his neighborhood to avoid the noisy neighbors only to get hit by burglars at his new home .I loved my younger years of military towns ,snow and driving long distances to town now the comfort of my small home and the nearness to my shopping grounds and health care givers gives me security and comfort ,times have change and so have I. Statistics show Miami,Fl with a very high crime, hurricanes that come and go,hot,humid, traffic and many more idiosyncrasies of big cities but I have learn to not trip over the same stone twice I have learn to swim with the coming tide I have learn my surroundings well and like in my army days ,never follow the same trail twice, we humans most adapt to our world if we are going to survived in it to make the best of what we can get or have .I enjoy the story of Dick Proenneke , Alone in the Wilderness, only he was not alone ,he would have never survived alone .


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