# Long Term Survival Humble Opinion



## readytogo

One very clear question that always comes up in any survival/preppers forum or family get together on survival is quantity of food/stock size; for how long do we prepared, well, defining long term is the key, even the experts have different numbers on that one, we know that we have to prepared, but even then we are also confused on how, for what, for when, is not as easy as we think, thinking about our future in a after event world. We can seat here and opinionated all day long and no one will be able to come up with an answer. So we now have to figure out or make a mental movie of living in an after event world and concentrating on the means of long term survival. Yes let’s forget about the evilness that will lurk in that type of environment for a moment. What entity will have the necessary means to survived and eventually make it in a major event, I hate to say it, but the Government will; We have to remember that thru our history groups of first timers have fought each other for power and colonies have been destroy because of it, so government has law and order set up, no anarchy to worry about, you along in the woods will not make it in the long run. So now we have to think of Government Camps, yes memories of prison camps lurk in the background, but not so, they will be Survival Camps, like open military bases for all .So far, during the resent disasters there has been no need for this camps, thanks God that our Gov has seen to that, stocks of supplies and equipment have always been set-up for situations like this ones and probably worse ones, hope we never have to find out. I`ll be the first one to honestly tell you that in no way I will be stocking supplies for years to come just to say that I`m ready for a dooms day scenario, is ludicrous, waste of time and money, money that I need for my daily living and activities, time that I need to spend with my love ones in the pursuit of normal, healthy activities, needed to keep a stress free life style. :beercheer:


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## camo2460

RTG I don't know about anybody else, but I know for a fact that I can go into the wilderness with nothing but the clothes on my back a tomahawk and a knife and live well. I've done It before and can do it again!


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## catdog6949

*surviving the long run*

While the "OP" has valid point's, I also agree you can live long term in the woods with very little. You just have too have the skill set's with which too survive, I have done it many times for month's at a time.

Now the "OP" did mention that while government was there in most past disaster's, honestly they are extremely slow, so you, have too be ready too take care of yourself until they have started aid station's and of course t this is if they can???

I prepare for me and mine and so we can make it thru the worst time but we remain flex able, and have many different way's too go in different scenerio's!

Cat and Turtle


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## camo2460

RTG I didn't mean to be harsh, and I apologize if that's the way it sounded. catdog thank you for reminding me of my manners


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## Caribou

There was a family in Russia that went into the bush due to a religious purge. They survived for decades. It was an extremely harsh and lonely existence. The last survivor was discovered a few years back. If someone has a better memory than I please post a link.


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## OldCootHillbilly

How long yall prepare fer be a personal choice. I beleive in bein ready fer a disaster that could last a reasonable length a time. How long is that? Well, quite a spell, but I ain't gonna spend huge sums a money bein ready fer say 10 years. It just ain't practical fer us ta do that. We invest the funds fer thins we can use now an during trouble. We garden an can now an would continue ta do so later ifin we had ta. Add ta that the ability ta hunt, fish an trap an were alright. 

Most folk round here ain't got a clue what ta do when the big box be outa sumtin, they go inta panic mode. Ifin they got 3 days worth a food in the house be bout normal round here. Ta go find sumtin ta eat that ain't in a can er box they got no clue.

I agree, be ready, but it can't be the only thin in yer life. Enjoy life an loved ones as well, cause we never know how many days we get with em. It goes by all to fast. We enjoy workin tagether be ready. Kinda the best a both worlds guess yall would say.


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## cowboyhermit

readytogo said:


> I`ll be the first one to honestly tell you that in no way I will be stocking supplies for years to come just to say that I`m ready for a dooms day scenario, is ludicrous, waste of time and money, money that I need for my daily living and activities, time that I need to spend with my love ones in the pursuit of normal, healthy activities, needed to keep a stress free life style. :beercheer:


I wouldn't recommend anyone stock supplies "just so they can say they are prepared". Stocking supplies so that they actually ARE prepared makes perfect sense. If done right it isn't a "waste of time and effort" it actually can save you tons of money. Buying staples in bulk and eating them today instead of premade foods will save tons of money for the average household and likely be healthier. Growing your own food and raising livestock can also save tons of money if done efficiently. What could be a more healthful activity than working with animals and the soil, alongside your friends or family, growing food for yourself and your loved ones. 

I prefer to think long term, as in multi-generational. That doesn't mean I have to avoid using something that might not be available 100 years from now, it just means I need to think about it and have a plan that will evolve over time. All options are on the table, if it comes down to it I could live a nomadic life in the wilderness as well as anyone, I just hope it never comes down to that.


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## FrankW

My personal theory always has been to try to aim for a 6 months supply for a TEOTWAAKI scenario.
(plagues, grid down etc)

if I am well enough supplied that I can hunker down for 6 months and avoid the struggles people must undertake and get killed doing.

By the time 6 months is over and I am on the road too by that time 80-90% of people will be dead and the threat will have self-controlled itself.

There'd be lots of empty land by then or I could use my gun and ammo collection to buy my way into a functioning community.

At that point all functioning communities must be short of ammo and similiar necessities.


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## 21601mom

Caribou said:


> There was a family in Russia that went into the bush due to a religious purge. They survived for decades. It was an extremely harsh and lonely existence. The last survivor was discovered a few years back. If someone has a better memory than I please post a link.


I think this is the family to which you were referring:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histo...re-of-World-War-II-188843001.html?device=ipad


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## k0xxx

We could survive for quite a while, living only on the supplies that we have put back. However, our lifestyle is designed to mostly sustain us, and our supplies are there to "fill in the gaps". Of course, I'm still working on my 100 year T.P. plan...


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## cowboyhermit

k0xxx said:


> We could survive for quite a while, living only on the supplies that we have put back. However, our lifestyle is designed to mostly sustain us, and our supplies are there to "fill in the gaps". Of course, I'm still working on my 100 year T.P. plan...


I think that's a big difference, some people see preparing as filling up some warehouse with everything you need for the next ___months, as if it was a trip to mars or something. It is one thing to have enough put away to not HAVE to go out and work everyday, something that people who plan on surviving in the wilderness have to take into account (what if you get sick or break your leg).

As for 100yrs of TP, all you have to do is figure a good way of doing laundry and get some euphemistically named "family cloths" then you are set


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## weedygarden

*When I originally read this post, I was a little confused*

This is an interesting post, although a little confusing.

A few decades ago, when I talked to someone about preparedness, they said they just wanted to deal with what came, and if they died, they died.

What is going to happen? Only God knows. We can have "feelings" about it. We can be more scientific. I don't know how to evaluate it that way. Personally, I think some people are someone psychologically better able to deal with war, medicine, education, engineering, and there are some people who are better able to deal with the idea of SHTF, TEOTWAWKI, and in turn prepping.

I get that the only thing that is guaranteed in life is death and taxes.

I have heard of people who are preparing for decades. I know a family that has their own warehouse of preparedness on their property. The best prepared person could die today or tomorrow.

I wish I was better prepared. I wish I had a well located (off the main drag by a long way and relatively easy for me to get to in one gas tank) and developed retreat. I don't. Or living the homesteading lifestyle.

I do something every week to prepared. I/we could go hard 24/7 and it would not be enough. I am dealing with it on the basis of making some reasonable goals, not completely making myself miserable in the process. I set goals and work on locating items at yard sales, thrift stores, craigslist, ebay. and where ever else I might be able to get them. It is like needing gas, groceries, new shoes, and bandaids or socks for my preps. I rarely make a trip to buy a prep. It happens when I am going somewhere in the vicinity. Once in a while I go somewhere to get what I want for preps.

I also really enjoy learning new skills and learning to make yogurt, or cook dal, or grow turmeric are the kinds of things I would enjoy without it being prepping. Or target practice, or fishing, or camping, or hiking. I enjoy these kinds of things and it keeps my skills honed.

Recently, I have been feeling that it won't matter at all how hard and much we prep. Maybe, it is a little depression, I don't know. I've not been in the best of places about it.

But I get up in the morning and take care of my other business, and there it is in my brain, prepping, even with my current pessimism.

I think there is more to life than prepping. Balance in all things is important.


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## CoffeeTastic

I was watching a Doomsday Preppers marathon this week and what always bugs me is the "practical preppers" evaluation. Some preppers featured are already living in their bugout location with solar panels and gardens and livestock - not buying much of anything at all.

Evaluation: 11 months or something like that.

Do they base this on the stockpile of food? I think having renewable resources would put the estimate to indefinite.

In my opinion having renewable food resources is the best way to go long term, unless you really have the skills to get what you need when the stockpile is depleted and you climb out into the apocalypse.


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## millertimedoneright

I would really like to see what it would take to get all top scores on that show...it would literally take millions in security, food stock piles, and enough renewable food sources to feed an army...in reality the number one thing that will determine ones life expectancy is mindset...I believe that is the main thing in any survival whether ur lost in the woods or shtf situation...many could survive long term off a small garden and hunting for meat if their mind is right...we all do not need warehouses full of food and modern conveniences all one needs is the right mindset and a few basic items...the reason I prep is for short term sustainability for my family and cuz there is a few things from my current life that I would like to keep in a post shtf situation...in reality I plan to move to what I hope to become my homestead where I can situate it to become a comfortable setting for me and my family before, during, and after a shtf situation...


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## machinist

We are following what our ancestors have done for the past couple hundred years that we know about, raising food and chickens, doing everything we can for ourselves, and being as independent of the system as possible. That has gotten us through a long list of difficulties so far, and should cover most things from here on. No, not everything, but most.

Marketable skills cover a lot of things for us also. We do not pretend to be perfectly prepared, but we are playing the odds with each prep choice. It is a peaceful lifestyle, and rewarding in its' own way, something we enjoy rather than being in some sort of panic mode. We don't expect any aid from the govt whatsoever.


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## helicopter5472

millertimedoneright said:


> I would really like to see what it would take to get all top scores on that show...it would literally take millions in security, food stock piles, and enough renewable food sources to feed an army...in reality the number one thing that will determine ones life expectancy is mindset...I believe that is the main thing in any survival whether ur lost in the woods or shtf situation...many could survive long term off a small garden and hunting for meat if their mind is right...we all do not need warehouses full of food and modern conveniences all one needs is the right mindset and a few basic items...the reason I prep is for short term sustainability for my family and cuz there is a few things from my current life that I would like to keep in a post shtf situation...in reality I plan to move to what I hope to become my homestead where I can situate it to become a comfortable setting for me and my family before, during, and after a shtf situation...


To get a top score you would need a underground fort with 10 years of dry storage food, it would have be EMP proof, nuclear proof, complete air filtration system, a underground growing room, an exercise room, have a 100K gallon water supply, and another source of major water along with topside water collection, several acres of farm land, all kinds of animals for food, all kinds of seeds, fertilizers. Also radiation suits, masks, and assorted supplies, nearly every hand tool known to man, stored fuel sources like propane and diesel, solar and battery and inverter systems. Then security early warning ground and air systems, mines, bazookas, machine guns, flame throwers, antiaircraft systems, tanks, long and short range rockets, a few nukes with 10k mile range, full satellite system, a small army. I'm sure I have forgotten several things.... That show I don't believe has given out much more than a 75% rating. The guy had a fortress, was rich, and had a lot of stuff.. :laugh:


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## cowboyhermit

I'm sure this has been posted before but this is apparently the same scale they rate people byhttp://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/interactives/how-prepped-are-you1/
I lose some points for security because I don't have everything on their list ... but there are some things I have that they don't include


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## machinist

I think their scoring is BS. For instance, they score water storage up to 200 gallons per person. We have a 6,400 gallon cistern for the house and collect all our water. We also have another 3,000 gallon collecting tank for garden irrigation and livestock water. I would like to have more storage. They are woefully short in this, just to name ONE area of preparedness. There is NO category for skills to make a living after a collapse. I suppose they will all live off their savings? I give this whole show a zero. 

I suppose that is all you could expect from TV, though. Pretty juvenile, overall, like most of TV at about a 6th grade intelligence level. I have never watched the show, but did see a couple clips online, and it was really POORLY thought out. I can see a lot of these wannabe Rambo characters squatting and straining after a month on MRE's and no laxatives... vract:


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## kilagal

One of the things that a lot of us kind of forget is life is always changing. Say you are working on keeping stuff for 10 years. And some people that is the plan. Not everyone but some. 
But things in life change. I am not saying that we have done 10 years. We just couldn't afford it. But 10 years ago we had the 2 foster gk's living here plus dh's mother that at the time was in her 80's. Which we were pretty worried about if things went south so to speak. And I had gone and gotten a lot of stuff to take care of her. A wheelchair, comode, etc. you get the idea. She didn't need all of it at the time. But there were times we did have to use it. She has now passed on. And yes I have kept that stuff. And when dh had surgery a couple of years ago it was nice to have it.
The foster gk's in the meantime have now moved on and live in Texas. We do not hear from them. And that is just how life is. But it makes a big difference in what and how much you prep. There are now just the two of us. And we do not need as much as we needed when there were all of us here. But just as easily it could go the other way. 
So there is no way to say "I am prepped."


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## 21601mom

helicopter5472 said:


> To get a top score you would need a underground fort with 10 years of dry storage food, it would have be EMP proof, nuclear proof, complete air filtration system, a underground growing room, an exercise room, have a 100K gallon water supply, and another source of major water along with topside water collection, several acres of farm land, all kinds of animals for food, all kinds of seeds, fertilizers. Also radiation suits, masks, and assorted supplies, nearly every hand tool known to man, stored fuel sources like propane and diesel, solar and battery and inverter systems. Then security early warning ground and air systems, mines, bazookas, machine guns, flame throwers, antiaircraft systems, tanks, long and short range rockets, a few nukes with 10k mile range, full satellite system, a small army. I'm sure I have forgotten several things.... That show I don't believe has given out much more than a 75% rating. The guy had a fortress, was rich, and had a lot of stuff.. :laugh:


Wanna have some fun? Lets think about how we would change the model, I.e., change the attributes of readiness and how they are evaluated. I am not the expert on prepping (wish I were!), but I regularly evaluate things (programs, operations, etc) as part of my job.

So, 1)would you change the categories of evaluation and 2) would you change the measurement within each category, e.g., what does it take to score X in security, or what does it take to score Y in long-term food stores.

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, including an importance or weighting for each category of evaluation, as I have also wondered how I would ever receive a decent score. Wrapping in another comment (helicopter's), I think our categories would focus on sustainability as having renewable food and power are a big part of long term survival.


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## rawhide2971

My 2 cents worth is that all that planning is going right out the window after about 8 months or so.
What no one seems to remember is that there are some really evil people in our world, some psychopaths that are held in check today only by societies rules and the ability to hide in the general population and may even be able to fulfill their inner need for dominance by being in control as politicians or policemen, soldiers or other types of “control” individuals. When the grid goes down they may feel they can take over and start to form their own “militias” and start taking over. Sound farfetched….maybe not as much as you might think. I think this is where keeping a low profile and OPSEC is going to be really important but long term it’s going to be impossible, no one person, family or small group can survive long term (years) on its own. It’s going to have to interact and trade and its going to have to band together to fight off raiders, slavers and dare I say “cannibals”. Survival of the fittest to the extreme. You can hide up in the hills and out in the desert and way out away from everyone else for only so long but you and your family will eventually need something, medicine, food, “gene pool” (animal, human) who knows. Then we have to consider the disease issues, the longer you stay isolated does that increase the susceptibility of your family and yourself to strangers carrying something down the road? Seems to me that interacting with people is a survival trait and while you can’t encourage the dead beats (I certainly won’t.) you can’t completely cut yourself off either. The more you think about it the more complex it gets….it’s not simply about surviving yourself it’s about making sure your kids and grandkids survive and they can then build on what you have prepared for them…or at least that is my ambition….everything I do is with an aim to prepare for them to have a head start on being able to rebuild and be in a position to have a head start and be able to carry on and survive and thrive…off the soap box…sorry
:kiss:


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## JayJay

I'm not even bothering to read these posts.
Note: this govt is broke--B R O K E!!!!
It will NOT-N O T- be able to feed 300 million people.
Our silos are rumored to be empty and to quote evil Hillary---What difference at this point does it make?
Because the govt regulations only allowed _*3 days *_for every household and that was wheat??
I read our govt--the one that is gonna feed YOU--sends all surplus corn to China!!
Keep thinking like the original poster and you are gonna starve!!

I'm ready for Y E A R S !!!

After that, I die. No 'survival' camp for me--PUH__LEEZE!!

One more note--is this the SAME govt that had to beg for bottled water for Sandy Hurricane victims??
And they are prepared to feed 300 million??

Some here call it harsh talk?? I call it facing the truth!!

I Timothy 5:8....Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

''I'm ready for Y E A R S !!!

After that, I die. No 'survival' camp for me--PUH__LEEZE!!''[/QUOTE]

Am I understanding you intend to survive for years on your preps alone and then lay down and die?
If so why?
If not please accept my appologys


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## Caribou

While there are tips to be picked up from these shows I am unwilling to design my preps around their arbitrary lists. The best lists I have come across so far are those in the LDS Preparedness Manual. Even these lists are not ideal for me. My personal preferences, the way I eat, and the way I live are different than any random list maker. 

The lists are great for pointing out holes in my preps but some of these "holes" are going to stay empty because I would never eat that item. I have many items that don't appear on any list except mine. Not only would I not use someone else's list to judge my preps I would not use my list to judge your preps. While we can learn from each other none of us has a perfect list. 

As my life changes my list changes. Over ten years ago I a chile sauce brand called Sambal Olek. A half a teaspoon of this will spice a bowl of rice and I love it. This product got added to my stores. Over five years ago my wife decided to use this in her cooking so I upped the quantity in storage. Age and health have necessitated changes in my food and other preps.


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## LincTex

Caribou said:


> a chile sauce brand called Sambal Olek. A half a teaspoon of this will spice a bowl of rice and I love it. This product got added to my stores.


I LOVE that stuff. I am trying to duplicate it but am missing something.


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## ROBIE

How much you prep and why are your own business. 

If you feel that the gooberment will be there for you when the SHTF, then all I can say is....your :nuts::nuts::factor10:!!
You don't want to invest the money and time to put aside at least a months worth of preps and would rather spend it on family and good times, that's your right. 

As for me and mine, we WILL NOT be going to the "superdome". 

All you need to do is google up the news reports of what happened during Katrina and after to understand why I'd rather stick it out on my own. 

Granted its been 7 years now, and you'd think they have gotten better, but have they? Look what happened to "Sandy". 

Now about those "Doomsday preppers & Practical preppers," practical preppers are the ones who used to be known as Southern prepper 1 and his friend Engineer something or other. They were featured in the first season of Doomsday preppers and have an extensive youtube library. 

About the Mormons and their goals for a 1 year supply, they are following a commandment from one of their apostles. Google the "LDS preparedness manual and download it. The Mormons have been prepping for over 30 years and have this down pat! Several prepper/survivalist sites are ran by Mormons. I'm not a Mormon nor will I ever be one, but I gotta give them their props, they know what they are doing!

How you want to define "long term preparedness" is your choice. 3 days, 3 weeks, months or years, its your choice. 



Robie


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## mosquitomountainman

readytogo said:


> One very clear question that always comes up in any survival/preppers forum or family get together on survival is quantity of food/stock size; for how long do we prepared, ... I`ll be the first one to honestly tell you that in no way I will be stocking supplies for years to come just to say that I`m ready for a dooms day scenario, is ludicrous, waste of time and money, money that I need for my daily living and activities, time that I need to spend with my love ones in the pursuit of normal, healthy activities, needed to keep a stress free life style. :beercheer:


Personally, I believe a person should have enough stores to provide their basic needs of food shelter, clothing and security, to last a year. That gives them one year to build a self-sufficient life.

For those who quip that they'd rather die than contemplate living life after TSHTF? We'll see what tune they sing when the time comes.

I figure a lot of those people will be begging, borrowing, stealing, whoring, or whatever else it takes to survive. If you have a family and refuse to take responsibility for their welfare you are the worst kind of scumbag. Just don't cover your ears or hide while your son's/daughters/love ones slowly succumb to the effects of starvation, malnutrition, exposure, or violence, or sell themselves to any scumbag who will take them just to get a mouthful of bread.

THAT'S why we prepare! That's why we learn skills that will be valuable in a post SHTF world.


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## Marcus

mosquitomountainman said:


> Personally, I believe a person should have enough stores to provide their basic needs of food shelter, clothing and security, to last a year. That gives them one year to build a self-sufficient life.


Only change I'd make to this is to stretch out the food supply to 1.5 to 2 years to account for a crop failure or theft of food by 2 or 4 legged critters.


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## CoffeeTastic

Never forget the X-factor .

I have a few questions for forum members who moved to their BOLs and went (mostly) off-grid:

How hard was it? How much work do you have to put into just surviving? Do you ever regret your decision? Did you have to drag your family with you kicking and screaming?


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## musketjim

I stock as much as I can as often as I can. I just buy extras of everything. If shtf the population at my house will grow by at least 6x with family and our closest friends. They can't afford to prep so I prep what I can for them. But life at BOL will be brutal for all of us. I prep now while life is easy and I can afford to, times are a'coming when every missed opportunity, every morning slept in, every dollar wasted, will be greatly regretted.:soapbox2: My family deserves every last drop I can give and that's what they'll get. To the end.:kiss:


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## weedygarden

ROBIE said:


> About the Mormons and their goals for a 1 year supply, they are following a commandment from one of their apostles. Google the "LDS preparedness manual and download it. The Mormons have been prepping for over 30 years and have this down pat! Several prepper/survivalist sites are ran by Mormons. I'm not a Mormon nor will I ever be one, but I gotta give them their props, they know what they are doing!
> 
> How you want to define "long term preparedness" is your choice. 3 days, 3 weeks, months or years, its your choice.
> Robie


Like you, I will never be LDS, but they have been doing this for so long, they do have some of this down and are the authorities of food storage. The original LDS food storage mandate came from Brigham Young a long time ago. His mandate was 7 years of wheat. We all know how hard that would be to store, and even some of us who grind our own wheat and make our own bread (sometimes), that is a lot of wheat. Think of the large Mormon family 140 years ago, no plastic buckets and the potential of rodents in your grainery. My grandparents had wooden graineries and every time we opened the doors, the rodents scampered.

These are a couple quotes by Brigham Young. I want to apologize for "preaching". Please, I am not. I just want to share this information because over the years even LDS don't know the original mandate by their church. They have changed their mandate over the years because this requirement was/is almost impossible for most people. Add to that, that we are so far removed from the processing of wheat. I also wonder how many of those earlier LDS had gluten intolerances.

http://peaceofpreparedness.com/Quotes.html

"He will give us the ability to raise the grain, to obtain the fruits of the earth, to make habitations, to procure a few boards to make a box, and when harvest comes, giving us the grain, it is for us to preserve it-to save the wheat until we have one, two, five or seven years' provisions on hand, until there is enough of the staff of life saved by the people to bread themselves and those who will come here seeking for safety...(the fulfillment of that prophecy is yet in the future)". Marion G. Romney (Quoting Brigham Young) (April Conference, 1976)

"The time will come that gold will hold no comparison in value to a bushel of wheat." (President Brigham Young, Discourses of Brigham Young, p.298.)


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## LincTex

mosquitomountainman said:


> That gives them one year to build a self-sufficient life.


That's still cutting it awful close.



mosquitomountainman said:


> For those who quip that they'd rather die than contemplate living life after TSHTF? We'll see what tune they sing when the time comes.


The human will to survive is supposedly the most powerful of all (at least in a properly functioning human).

Desperate people are downright scary. I also believe (unfortunately) that "those who quip that they'd rather die than contemplate living life after TSHTF" will probably be the ones to be the most wary of later on.



Marcus said:


> stretch out the food supply to 1.5 to 2 years to account for a crop failure or theft of food .


That would be very wise. 
I have about a year's worth (total), but not all in one location.


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## LincTex

weedygarden said:


> The original LDS food storage mandate came from Brigham Young a long time ago. His mandate was 7 years of wheat. We all know how hard that would be to store, and even some of us who grind our own wheat and make our own bread (sometimes), that is a lot of wheat.


7 years is kind of crazy... I would say store enough wheat to eat, as well as make sure you have enough seed to plant more each year. That would be more feasible.

1 pound of wheat per day = 365 pounds per year (about 6.5 bushels or so). That's about as much that will fit in a 55 gallon drum.

Non-irrigated land can make 20-30 bushels an acre if you take care of it. So you only need to plant about 1/5 to 1/6 of an acre to meet basic needs. More is a good idea to be able to store excess.


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## cowboyhermit

LincTex said:


> Non-irrigated land can make 20-30 bushels an acre if you take care of it.


Up here we average 40 bushels/acre of top quality high protein wheat without irrigation, that requires fertilizer or appropriate soil practices like a grass/legume rotation. Just an fyi, better to stick with conservative estimates anyways though because I wouldn't want to rely on even an "average" crop in a specific year.


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> Up here we average 40 bushels/acre.... Just an fyi, better to stick with conservative estimates anyways though because I wouldn't want to rely on even an "average" crop in a specific year.


Oh, yes - of course. I have personally seen 80 bushel an acre wheat (and read about 100+) on good soil with timely rains. I just threw out 20-30 because it is such a conservative figure; first year planting wheat after sod (backyard!) could be an iffy crop.


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## FrankW

I also dont like how they asses firearms skill:

the only choices are basic intermediate swat/SF
Swat does not equal SF.
And even if it did. its not enough grnaulaity.

There is a big difference between an regular shooter who might consider himself "Intermediate" and a trained Infantryman who does make the "SF" cut-off.

Also there is not parameter for physical shape.

the Ammo is per gun and not total.

I feel strongly that the total amount of Ammo is much more critical (and those who think about it are likely to agree IMO)

AND tha maximum Ammo goe sot only 1000 rds/gun.

A guy who has 3 AR's and 20,000 rds is SUPER prepared for defending himself but this will not be reflected.


----------



## mosquitomountainman

CoffeeTastic said:


> Never forget the X-factor .
> 
> I have a few questions for forum members who moved to their BOLs and went (mostly) off-grid:
> 
> How hard was it? How much work do you have to put into just surviving? Do you ever regret your decision? Did you have to drag your family with you kicking and screaming?


I have a book written on just that topic (_Creating the Low-Budget Homestead_).

In many ways it's easier than being just one more rat in the rat race ... in some ways harder. Mostly it depends on your attitude and your level of preparedness. I don't mean preparedness as in how much food, ammo, etc. but in how well you've prepared yourself in skills and priorities. If we get to feeling overwhelmed or discouraged we go visit people who still live like "normal" people do. Then our way of life seems a whole lot better!


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## mosquitomountainman

I'd consider one year as minimum, (especially since most people grossly overestimate the amount of food that they have) with two years a much better plan. But if they've got a year's worth put back and work diligently during that year to provide (grow/forage/hunt/fish/trap/glean/etc.) they won't use it all up the first year. By filling in with what they can provide over and above their stored supplies that first year while learning they should be able to stretch their supplies out for another year or two at least. By then they should be well on their way to self-sufficiency.

Incidentally, _self_-sufficiency is not the best concept. It's better to think in terms of _local_ self-sufficiency. What's available locally through yourself and by bartering with other local people. This is the way the old-timers lived, by sharing/bartering skills and goods among their neighbors. You may not need to be a blacksmith if you can provide something to trade with the blacksmith. Even the American Indians had people who made better bows, arrowheads, etc. and bartered with tribesmen who had other talents.


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## bigg777

readytogo - Your final statement, "...to keep a stress free life style."

The fact that you are surfing & posting here shows that you are not living a "stress free" lifestyle. You, like every other human being, internalizes stress about your future, it's just a matter of degree!

Those of us who have chosen to "prep", have chosen to remove some of the stress from our vision of possible future events. I also "prep" for a comfortable, civilized future by contributing to my IRA and investing in stocks and bonds.

Do yourself a huge favor and put something aside for a rainy day!

It's not a question of IF, but WHEN it will rain.

If I knew exactly what was going to happen in the future, billions of people would line up @ my front door on Sunday mornings!!

Thank God, they do not!


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## OldCootHillbilly

The OP never said he weren't preppin, just ain't preppin fer years. Nothin wrong with that. Remember, we all prep fer different reasons. Some fer natural disasters, some fer economic troubles an so on.

To each there own. Were all here cause we wanna be ready fer a problem that pertains ta us, our location an so forth. We be way heada them sheeple who ain't got 3 days a food in the house an no idear what ta do when the lights go out er there cell phone quits workin.


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## GaryS

As an old spring wheat farmer, let me clarify to those who hope to grow their own that the yields stated are for mosty normal conditions. That means you have equipment and fuels to sow efficiently, products and equipment to spray or treat for insects, weeds and disease, fertilizer in areas not naturally fertile, and irrigation in areas too dry and hot, equipment to harvest the crop, and a storage place free from vermin. In bad years, I've combined a lot of five bushels to the acre wheat, and even plowed under or cut for straw some that was less than five and not worth harvesting.

The gamble of dryland farming reminds me of the North Dakota farmer on whose land they recently discovered oil. A reporter asked him what is plans were now that he was the owner of an oil well. His reply..."I hope to keep farming...that is, if the oil money holds out".


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## JayJay

I will butt in here again.
One year of food does NOT account for two years of drought, or continuous rain--check out Florida growers- and other anomalies we know are out there.
Florida had trouble this past season with a varmint in/on their trees.
That is not expected ...so, what I mean to say is expect the unexpected and don't think you're okay with one year because you will have a crop that will extend that one year to one and 1/2 years.
Whoever set those time frames isn't doing any of us any service.
If one year is all you can afford--go for it.

I am always looking for a deal, a sale, a bargain to get that can be used by someone if not me.


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## JayJay

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> ''I'm ready for Y E A R S !!!
> 
> After that, I die. No 'survival' camp for me--PUH__LEEZE!!''


Am I understanding you intend to survive for years on your preps alone and then lay down and die?
If so why?
If not please accept my appologys[/QUOTE]

I can't explain it --I guess what I'm saying is if this nation isn't back to a livable existence by the time my preps are gone??? then trust me...we are all doomed!!!:gaah:

I trust my creator--He urged me to prepare and I have worked hard for 4 years doing just that. He provided the funds for me to prepare after I proved how serious I was in the beginning.
He gave me life and I will not squander it and NOT prepare.
I Timothy 5:8....Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

I truly believe Luke 21: 7-36 and read it often. It 'completes' me!!

Sorry to be so blunt. But I bet there are thousands that heard the voice telling them to get ready. That's what I did.
Oh, I'm 63 and have had a bountiful life. I'm one of those with a half full glass.


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## mosquitomountainman

JayJay said:


> I will butt in here again.
> One year of food does NOT account for two years of drought, or continuous rain--check out Florida growers- and other anomalies we know are out there.
> Florida had trouble this past season with a varmint in/on their trees.
> That is not expected ...so, what I mean to say is expect the unexpected and don't think you're okay with one year because you will have a crop that will extend that one year to one and 1/2 years.
> Whoever set those time frames isn't doing any of us any service.
> If one year is all you can afford--go for it.
> 
> I am always looking for a deal, a sale, a bargain to get that can be used by someone if not me.


Ah, but what if the drought last for four years or seven years or the bugs get it the first year and drought the second year and floods the third year and hail the fourth year and ...

You might catch a new strain of the flue and be one of the first to die too and since that, too, is a possibility just forego any preps at all because what's the use of prepping if you might die unexpectedly!!!!!!

You see the fallacy of this argument? The "what if's" can drive you nuts if you let them. Pick a date and work toward it but use a balanced plan of putting up goods and learning skills. Add time to your preps by foraging, hunting, etc. Be as prepared as you can be but don't succumb to defeat just because you can't put back a century's worth of supplies. Don't be ridiculous with the "what if's."

Also realize that no matter how well you plan and prep your ultimate end is death. Have you prepped for that as well?


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## cowboyhermit

GaryS said:


> As an old spring wheat farmer, let me clarify to those who hope to grow their own that the yields stated are for mosty normal conditions. That means you have equipment and fuels to sow efficiently, products and equipment to spray or treat for insects, weeds and disease, fertilizer in areas not naturally fertile, and irrigation in areas too dry and hot, equipment to harvest the crop, and a storage place free from vermin. In bad years, I've combined a lot of five bushels to the acre wheat, and even plowed under or cut for straw some that was less than five and not worth harvesting.
> 
> The gamble of dryland farming reminds me of the North Dakota farmer on whose land they recently discovered oil. A reporter asked him what is plans were now that he was the owner of an oil well. His reply..."I hope to keep farming...that is, if the oil money holds out".


The 40 bushels I gave is an average for us for the last 50 years or so dryland farming in central Alberta/Saskatchewan, before that the average would be a bit less due to varieties more than anything, great straw with the old grains though. We have never sprayed wheat for insects, we have for weeds but are seeing equal equal yields without herbicide or fertilizer using a grass rotation and other non-chemical methods. We have never combined anything under 30 bushels in the last 50 years but we have cut a couple poor crops for feed. I really do agree that people should be conservative with their estimates though, and look at what they can expect in their actual area.

There are lots of problems with that doomsday prepper quiz, you lose points for living in a cool or cold climate whether you are prepared to handle it or not. For training they say "experience with protecting and securing a fortified location" I guess that is part of SWAT/special forces but really what you want is experience or training AGAINST a swat/special forces type attack, defensive measures are much different imo, more like sniper/sentinel. Standardized weapons is an automatic point:scratch so better to have a bunch of 10/22's than a couple .50's and a couple ak's with ammo?


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## Salekdarling

Caribou said:


> There was a family in Russia that went into the bush due to a religious purge. They survived for decades. It was an extremely harsh and lonely existence. The last survivor was discovered a few years back. If someone has a better memory than I please post a link.


I know what you're talking about! I'll try to find the video.

*EDIT:*

Here's an article about the family, The Lykovs.


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## JayJay

~~~Also realize that no matter how well you plan and prep your ultimate end is death. Have you prepped for that as well?~~~

I guess you didn't comprehend my post well, if this is directed to me.


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## smaj100

When I started slowly prepping several years ago my wife just looked at me funny everytime I brought a few more things home. After a few more years of the crazy news around the country and world and asking me questions about why I prepped. I explained to her that everything I do now is to ensure her, our children and our grand children. I tought them all too shoot, my sons know hot to hunt and reload and we are slowly working on building the homestead.

Everything I do and try to teach them from simple farming to hunting and shooting is so they know how to survive. I pray to god that they will never have to live the life I am trying to prepare them for, but they will be prepared. If that means I go with a fancy new car or truck or the latest gun. I'm ok with that. My wife understands now why I prepare and accepts it. We've learned to can, she can shoot better than I can, and I only pray if the shtf they would survive until I could get back home. I work overseas for months at a time and that's my one big fear.

So keep thinking you can stand around and wait for a handout, you are part of the problem.


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## LincTex

JayJay said:


> ~~~Also realize that no matter how well you plan and prep your ultimate end is death. Have you prepped for that as well?


Not to be taken lightly at all:

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/probate-20504/


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## pugstheprepper

So i was thinking of intentionally surviving for long term. (a year minimum) I plan on only taking my bob. I was wondering what you all would have in your bob if you had to live out of it a year. Mind i wanna be able to hike at least 10-15 miles a day.

What would you guys take?


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## cowboyhermit

pugstheprepper said:


> So i was thinking of intentionally surviving for long term. (a year minimum) I plan on only taking my bob. I was wondering what you all would have in your bob if you had to live out of it a year. Mind i wanna be able to hike at least 10-15 miles a day.
> 
> What would you guys take?


A cell phone to call for help

Seriously though, it is great to be able to survive in the wilderness (I hunt and forage and trap ) and it is fun to think about what would go in that pack:scratch but the concept itself is fundamentally flawed as a strategy for shtf imho. Most people think of being prepared as doing things that will reduce our chance of dying horribly and playin' in the woods with no fallback position just aint it.:dunno:


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## pugstheprepper

cowboyhermit said:


> A cell phone to call for help
> 
> Seriously though, it is great to be able to survive in the wilderness (I hunt and forage and trap ) and it is fun to think about what would go in that pack:scratch but the concept itself is fundamentally flawed as a strategy for shtf imho. Most people think of being prepared as doing things that will reduce our chance of dying horribly and playin' in the woods with no fallback position just aint it.:dunno:


No your right. I'm saying that I'd like to live in the wild for a year like "into the wild". Of course without the bad ending


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## cowboyhermit

Avoiding the bad ending is key

A certain amount would depend on the area and your particular strategy. If it were me, and I was allowed, first thing I would do is knock up a shelter, (preferably a log cabin) and work out for there. An "on the move" kinda thing has little precedence so it would be tougher to work out a viable plan. The kind of tools you need for setting up a viable camp/homestead tend to be fairly heavy (and durable), quite different from a more mobile alternative.

Things that would be common to almost any situation are lots of snare wire (has many uses and no equivalent in the woods), .22 and ammo, good pot(s), durable fire starter, a real knife. Many things can be made well with natural materials like clothes (leather and fur) and shelter but items like above cannot.


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## pugstheprepper

Southern Ohio/northern Kentucky or possibly north or south Dakota


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## TheLazyL

The Call of the Wild - Documentary on Chris McCandless


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> ... lots of snare wire (has many uses and no equivalent in the woods)


Make lots of friends who play guitar. Have them save their old strings for you. Easiest to find "snare wire" anywhere


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## k0xxx

A long tine ago I read about someone using the braided type of picture hanging wire for snares. Anyone ever try it?


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## Norse

camo2460 said:


> RTG I don't know about anybody else, but I know for a fact that I can go into the wilderness with nothing but the clothes on my back a tomahawk and a knife and live well. I've done It before and can do it again!


In the event of a massive catastrophe, this scenario may be hindered by hundreds of thousands of well armed, well equipped people who previously had not been in your home "Survival" ranges, you might find your "Survival Turf" overrun by some badass, well armed and trained mo fos.

Never count on one plan.


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## Norse

k0xxx said:


> A long tine ago I read about someone using the braided type of picture hanging wire for snares. Anyone ever try it?


I found spider wire fishing line works the best, steel wire is too rigid and can actually spring open.


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## cowboyhermit

Kinda outside the scope of this thread but if you are talking about the stuff that is basically like miniature aircraft cable it will work but can be tricky to use well. Without some sort of locking mechanism which you can make or buy you have to be careful it doesn't come off. It is important to me to dispatch the animal quick and clean if at all possible so I usually use gravity or some sort of power assist (spring, stick, etc) using the cable will work fine if that is the case without a lock. I much prefer the brass stuff for squirrels and such but also because it is really useful to have on hand, almost any kind of wire will do with an appropriate setup. Leather and natural material can be used of course but 
Fishing line can work but it can be a pain to get it to stay exactly where you want it.


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## machinist

*Long term survival *to me means having ways to PRODUCE a lot of what we need, and also produce enough of something to trade for what we can't provide for ourselves. That means collecting or pumping water, farming at some scale, and being able to do hundreds of services for yourself.

All the stockpile does is get you to the next season of producing, hopefully with a margin to spare for bad luck.


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## BillS

We have a year's supply of food and water. We live in a small town. We don't have a well or any other source of fresh water. We don't have a yard suitable for a large garden. If we had the right place and more money we'd have two years of MRE's, a well, a cistern, and a large garden. The way we're prepared we're counting on a short-lived collapse. If nothing else, I have some high powered sling shots and hundreds of taconite pellets (iron ore) to use as ammo to hunt birds and rabbits.


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## BillS

JayJay said:


> Am I understanding you intend to survive for years on your preps alone and then lay down and die?
> If so why?
> If not please accept my appologys


I can't explain it --I guess what I'm saying is if this nation isn't back to a livable existence by the time my preps are gone??? then trust me...we are all doomed!!!:gaah:

I trust my creator--He urged me to prepare and I have worked hard for 4 years doing just that. He provided the funds for me to prepare after I proved how serious I was in the beginning.
He gave me life and I will not squander it and NOT prepare.
I Timothy 5:8....Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

I truly believe Luke 21: 7-36 and read it often. It 'completes' me!!

Sorry to be so blunt. But I bet there are thousands that heard the voice telling them to get ready. That's what I did.
Oh, I'm 63 and have had a bountiful life. I'm one of those with a half full glass.[/QUOTE]

I expect a complete economic collapse to lead to the one world government prophesied in Revelation. I expect the collapse in the year. I also expect a pre-trib Rapture.

I'm familiar with 1 Timothy 5:8. I would answer that with the parable of the ten virgins from Matthew 25. All my relatives have sufficient resources to prepare. In fact, most of them have a lot more resources than I do. I've told people what I expect to happen. A failure to prepare on their part will not create an emergency on my part. I don't plan on letting anyone in unless I hear God's voice in my mind telling me to let them in. I might let in a number of people. We have a year's supply of food for 4 adults. Maybe we only need a sixth month supply and we could take in 4 more adults. We'll see what God's will is.


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## mosquitomountainman

k0xxx said:


> A long tine ago I read about someone using the braided type of picture hanging wire for snares. Anyone ever try it?


It works very well. I've used it for squirrels. Set loops about three inches in diameter with the bottom a couple of inches above the limb or small "log" that's leaning against a tree. Squirrels love running across such things. Tie it to the log so that when the squirrel gets caught it will fall off the log and hang itself.

Steel wire (like the non-wound strings on a guitar/banjo/piano/etc.) work great! The wire is stiff enough to hold it's shape (loop) yet flexible enough to tighten when an animal gets it's head in and pulls.

One of the easiest snares to pack are a few dozen steel fishing leaders about 18 inches (or more) long.

Snares are very easy to make. The examples above are for small game. Larger animals require steel aircraft cable of various diameters sized according to your target species.

Snares can be pre-made and stored in your BOB. (I keep several in mine) You can make one-way locks out of any piece of metal (sized according to target animal) by bending it to a 90 degree angle and drilling a couple of holes in it.

A couple of 110 Connibear traps take up little space and can be used for small game or even catching fish (not legal in most places).

Don't forget to bring some fishing stuff and set lines at night when you stop to camp/sleep.

Like most other survival skills, it's best to get proficient while times are good so that you will know how to use them when times are bad. (But don't break any game laws!!!)


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## LincTex

BillS said:


> We don't have a well or any other source of fresh water.


I have been to Lake Winnebago. I would drink the water if I needed to, it's clean enough. I am sure the Indians that lived in the area 200 years ago drank it as well.
The water table is probably not too far down where you live. Get a rainwater harvesting system (for many reasons) and practice square-foot gardening.


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## readytogo

Long term survival in today’s World is not the same as the days of Louis and Clark and many think so still is a totally different World out there today, yes we have all the tools but not the mind set, we have left the country way of life for the modern World, we have lost touch with nature, we have develop into another specie, 90 percent of the human race lives in or near concrete jungles, our rivers and lakes are so polluted that drinking their water will kill Us and 360 days’ supply of food is not enough, we humans need other humans to survived, alone in the woods killing whatever comes your way will turn you into a zombie .
Let`s just say that an event comes and you and family are force to move into your cabin(shelter),game is around(food),well,river,lake(water),you will need more than that, you will need a neighbor with tools,salt,sugar,flour,garden seeds, and another neighbor with the canning tools, and preservation know how, and another neighbor with a medical emergency background and medical supplies; I can go on and on but the facts are that unless you and family are all of this in one and have all the tools and supplies needed, you will never make it.
In the old West wagon trains heading to a new World not only with supplies but group members had the know how to make do, elders in my family just like elders in many of your families had the know how to make do and survived from the ground up, nearest neighbor could have been miles away but really near if needed, one planted corn the other wheat, the other had hogs, chickens, cows; No Man is an Island and if someone has a bunker mentality, how long do you think it will last in a major event situation.
I have said it before, I prepared for me and family peace of mind, for the day that I just don`t want to cook and have something in jars already, for the storm season coming every year in my area, I can`t do nothing about the dooms day scenario in the movies or the idiot who wrote a book about it.


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## cowboyhermit

readytogo said:


> I can`t do nothing about the dooms day scenario in the movies or the idiot who wrote a book about it.


I don't know what particular scenario you have in mind but there is probably lots that you COULD do to prepare for it but you have chosen to draw the line at a lessor situation. Nothing wrong with that, you are likely much more prepared than the majority.


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## Norse

*Kidding yourselves....*

I think in the scenarios you people are prophesying are quite hopeful,but naive.Because most people don't realize that in such a situation, there are going to be hundreds of thousands of starving savages who will be reduced to barbarism to survive. Being in a remote area won't help much, because people will realize that the last of the food is in remote areas. Being able to hunt live game cannot be depended on, because thousands of desperate people may have already decimated all the game.

Being able to grow a garden may not be possible under many scenarios. The best possible chance for overall survival is.........

Being to go as long as possible without having to resupply, and at all means attempt to remain undetected under all possible scenarios.

The sad fact is, the majority of the unprepared will be dead in a month, those that survive past such a time frame will be most likely either highly efficient savage, pillaging barbarians, or those who have thought out of the box about the most likely, plausible scenario and made LEVEL HEADED preps, for the most plausible scenarios.

There are 320 million people in the United States. I would suggest a safe bet is that only around a half a million, and that is a stretch, are actually hardcore preppers and extreme survivalists.

Think about it.


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## swjohnsey

I am thinking about it. Do you think the top 1%, the folks who control the F22s, the M1-A1 tanks, etc., will have any trouble surviving when SHTF or have any trouble taking what you have?


----------



## Norse

swjohnsey said:


> I am thinking about it. Do you think the top 1%, the folks who control the F22s, the M1-A1 tanks, etc., will have any trouble surviving when SHTF or have any trouble taking what you have?


No, because they won't be able to find me. In fact, there is a entire nation....

Afghanistan, where thousands of people being actively hunted by billions of dollars of the aforementioned hardware, pretty much made them look like idiots with billion dollar toys.

Do you think in a massive breakdown of social order, they are going to be flying in f-22's in to storm someones 5 gallon bucket supplies of baked beans and rice scattered in hidden locations across a countryside? 

Think out of the box.


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## swjohnsey

The Secretary of State won't be able to finds you but the local sheriff or county commissioner will. As soon as the U.S. targets an individual in Afghanistan they are dead.


----------



## Tirediron

swjohnsey said:


> The Secretary of State won't be able to finds you but the local sheriff or county commissioner will. As soon as the U.S. targets an individual in Afghanistan they are dead.


Um yeah it took 11 or so years to find Osama ????:scratch


----------



## smaj100

I honestly think that even those in power except a very few, will survive a shtf event. Short of massive EMP's taking out everything thats electronic period. They will make it to the bunkers but I don't think it will help. 

Think about all of the current congressmen and senators going into a greenbriar type bunker... How long do you think it would take group of soldiers or whoever was supposed to be feeding them and taking care of them to realize and say screw it? I wouldn't baby sit those pompus *******s no matter what you were offering me. Especially if my family was somewhere else.

That being said maybe the support crew didnt make it to the bunker, do you think those arrogant sob's are going feed and serve themselves or know how to maintain the underground systems? I doubt it... They'll die off a little slower than the rest of the sheeple but they will succomb as well.


----------



## dutch9mm

You won't catch me dead in a govt camp. I/we (family,friends) have been and will continue to thrive w/o the govs "help".


----------



## musketjim

Read "The Final Frontiersman" the story Of Heimo Korth here in Alaska. He lives what I play at. Also read books on the mountain men of the early 1800's. They adopted and adapted native ways and combined it with technology in their preps and survived. As long as they weren't scalped or burned alive, or met with some other unfortunate end they were ultimate survivors, hitting just one rendezvous a year for resupply if they were lucky. A lot can be learned from the Klondike gold stampeders and the ton of goods they had to carry. Lewis and Clarks journals show of their preps and their survival. All of these stories make me feel like such a pussy when I start to complain. So long term and preparedness are both concepts that are flexible.


----------



## Norse

swjohnsey said:


> The Secretary of State won't be able to finds you but the local sheriff or county commissioner will.


Uh, no they will be struggling to cope with a situation they never prepared for.
Like the other 99.99 percent.



swjohnsey said:


> As soon as the U.S. targets an individual in Afghanistan they are dead.


Don't make me laugh. There are more Taliban members now than had been eliminated during the "War on Terror". Keep listening to the news!:laugh:

How many top Al Queida operatives are still roaming at will in Afghanistan?
Many.


----------



## Turtle

One of the things that always makes me laugh, especially at shows like "Doomsday Preppers", is discussions of one guy escaping from a major city with a machete and a backpack. 

People always imagine themselves as the hero of some story; they never imagine that they are far more likely to wind up the nameless character who dies in the first chapter. 

Which is silly, because CLEARLY the hero of the story is going to be ME....


----------



## swjohnsey

Norse said:


> Uh, no they will be struggling to cope with a situation they never prepared for.
> Like the other 99.99 percent.
> 
> Don't make me laugh. There are more Taliban members now than had been eliminated during the "War on Terror". Keep listening to the news!:laugh:
> 
> How many top Al Queida operatives are still roaming at will in Afghanistan?
> Many.


Yep, they are like roaches. But like roaches as soon as you decide to step on that certain one he/she is dead. If the U.S. forces target you, you are dead.


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## k0xxx

Everyone here can imagine a scenario where they survive and come out of the other side of the S H'ing T F. Reality is something else. Since the factors that we can't control out number the ones we can by an order of magnitude, all we can do is take our best shot and hope for the best.


----------



## swjohnsey

Yep, luck be a (big) factor.


----------



## LincTex

k0xxx said:


> the factors that we can't control out number the ones we can by an order of magnitude


That will make a GREAT signature line.....


----------



## BillS

JayJay said:


> Am I understanding you intend to survive for years on your preps alone and then lay down and die?
> If so why?
> If not please accept my appologys


I can't explain it --I guess what I'm saying is if this nation isn't back to a livable existence by the time my preps are gone??? then trust me...we are all doomed!!!:gaah:

I trust my creator--He urged me to prepare and I have worked hard for 4 years doing just that. He provided the funds for me to prepare after I proved how serious I was in the beginning.
He gave me life and I will not squander it and NOT prepare.
I Timothy 5:8....Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

I truly believe Luke 21: 7-36 and read it often. It 'completes' me!!

Sorry to be so blunt. But I bet there are thousands that heard the voice telling them to get ready. That's what I did.
Oh, I'm 63 and have had a bountiful life. I'm one of those with a half full glass.[/QUOTE]

I tried to answer this before but something went wrong.

I don't have the resources to provide for my family. I've told my family what's coming. I've told them to prepare. They all have more resources than I have. After it hits the fan I wouldn't be letting them in. Not unless I hear God's voice in my mind telling me to do so. Now, if I or my wife had a parent who needed our help we'd provide for them.

I've read that passage many times that says we should provide for our families. I get that. We won't be living in normal times. If I took in all my relatives and my wife's relatives we'd be down to about 4 weeks worth of food. Then we'd all starve to death. That doesn't make much sense to me.


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