# California drought a Harbinger of things to come?



## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

California drought a Harbinger of things to come for the entire USA?

As California faces the worst drought in its 163-year history with no hint of relief in sight, some scientists are calling the event a red flag for the future of the nation.

Gov. Jerry Brown raised the issue in his State of the State address Wednesday, saying "we do not know how much our current problem derives from the build-up of heat-trapping gasses, but we can take this drought as a stark warning of things to come."

Water shortages have widespread impacts. Agriculture and energy generation account for 80 percent of the nation's clean water use, says David Dzombak, head of Carnegie Mellon University's Civil and Environmental Engineering Department. And even when cities meet their water demands during a drought, the costs can leave them "exposed to significant risk of financial failures," says Patrick Reed, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Cornell University, in an e-mail.

RECOMMENDED: How much do you know about California? Take our quiz.
In that way, crises can led to new policies and new attitudes, and some say the California drought could be just such a catalyst.

"At the state, regional, and federal level, and across the country, people are just starting to come to grips with the fact that our climate is not stationary," says Professor Dzombak. "We are in a dynamic, changing climate situation that will affect all parts of the country in different ways," he says, led by the West and Southwest so impacted by drought.

Governor Brown laid out a roadmap of drought solutions Wednesday. He asked businesses and homeowners to voluntarily reduce their water usage by 20 percent. Last week, he declared a state of emergency.

"It is imperative that we do everything possible to mitigate the effects of the drought," he said in his speech. "We need everyone in every part of the state to conserve water. We need regulators to rebalance water rules and enable voluntary transfers of water and we must prepare for forest fires."

Longer term, the State Water Action Plan prioritizes water recycling, expanded storage, and groundwater management, as well as investments in safe drinking water, "particularly in disadvantaged communities."

These mandates are a "tall order," Brown said. But it is "what we must do to get through this drought and prepare for the next."

Major innovations of the last century came in response to water shortages, such as the 1928-34 drought, notes Jay Lund, director of the Center for Watershed Studies at the University of California at Davis, in a blog post.

"This six-year drought accelerated design and construction of the Central Valley Project and served as the design standard for most of California's water system until 1976," he says. Quoting Stanford University economist Paul Romer, he adds, "a crisis is a terrible thing to waste."

Similar innovations today could involve shifting to renewable energy sources that do not require as much water as steam-driven electrical plants.

The severe drought highlights the need for "a new way of thinking about our infrastructure," says Dzombak.

http://news.yahoo.com/historic-california-drought-called-red-flag-future-us-012326141.html


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

They could start by making it illegal to water your lawn or have a swimming pool. They need to build nuclear reactors and use them to produce fresh water from salt water but Cali is a leftist looney bin. They'll never do anything to produce real, non-green energy or more water.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

> Gov. Jerry Brown raised the issue in his State of the State address Wednesday, saying "we do not know how much our current problem derives from the build-up of heat-trapping gasses, but we can take this drought as a stark warning of things to come."


Ya, greenhouse gases are the problem, it would have nothing to do with way too many people in a state that is what 50% desert?


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

What should worry those still n california is first the coming fire season, and then what sort of absurd laws might be passed. Water rationing is likely not far off, personal water storage may become subject to seizure, ect. 

Those in Nor Cal might get lucky though, such new laws and regulations might be enough to get those in the northstate to finally separate and form the State of Jefferson... in which case I would likely move back


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

FatTire said:


> What should worry those still n california is first the coming fire season, and then what sort of absurd laws might be passed. Water rationing is likely not far off, personal water storage may become subject to seizure, ect.
> 
> Those in Nor Cal might get lucky though, such new laws and regulations might be enough to get those in the northstate to finally separate and form the State of Jefferson... in which case I would likely move back


We should be so lucky! I'd go for it in a heartbeat as long as it doesn't include San Francisco.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Any counties breaking off to form a new state would have to be approved by congress. With the democrats in charge of the Senate that seems sketchy at best. Ideally it wouldnt be the new State of Jefferson, it would be 6californias which is a much more involved and complicated but drastically better solution for all Californians and the rest of the country as well.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Dakine said:


> ...Ideally it wouldnt be the new State of Jefferson, it would be 6californias...


Please explain. San Diego County as San Diego County. From SD Cty upwards through the central valley to Los Banos as Aztlan. Along the coast as Costaztlan, from Riverside upwards along the Sierra Nevada as Sierra Nevada, from Los Banos to Redding along the central valley as I don't know what, San Francisco as San Franfreako, Silicon Valley as Silicon Valley or San Franfreako, The north coast as what? The most northern as Jefferson, maybe.

Except for Jefferson and San Diego, the rest of it would be called Del Norte Californio de Mexico!


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

VoorTrekker said:


> Please explain. San Diego County as San Diego County. From SD Cty upwards through the central valley to Los Banos as Aztlan. Along the coast as Costaztlan, from Riverside upwards along the Sierra Nevada as Sierra Nevada, from Los Banos to Redding along the central valley as I don't know what, San Francisco as San Franfreako, Silicon Valley as Silicon Valley or San Franfreako, The north coast as what? The most northern as Jefferson, maybe.
> 
> Except for Jefferson and San Diego, the rest of it would be called Del Norte Californio de Mexico!


LOL!

Negative, sir.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/19/tim-draper-six-californias-secede-silicon-valley-ballot-initiative/


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Desalination Could Be the Solution ?....*

http://news.yahoo.com/desalination-could-solution-californias-drought-160735035.html


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Desalination is expensive , requires a lot of investment not ill suited for the huge volumes large scale agriculture and industry needs, need maintenance and is vulnerable to power disruptions.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

I find it strange that Kalifornia, with all it's environmental rules and regulations, all it's Political Correctness and Social Engineering, is the very state that's undergoing all this drought and tribulation. :scratch


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

So... Its cause jesus doesnt like california..?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I have memories of water restrictions in CA from childhood. I still have family there and water has always been a concern. 

A friend of mine worked as an engineer on the CA aqueduct. This man has been dead for decades. You don't build something big enough to be seen from outer space except in dire need. CA has had a water problem for one heck of a long time. As early as 1919 the U.S. Geological Survey proposed piping water into CA. 

In 1908 Ford introduced the Model-T. My guess is that in the ensuing eleven years the cars caused global warming, or at least California warming, the problem was identified by the USGS, and a plan proposed. It could be that CA has always been short of water but that is probably over simplifying the problem.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Here is California they are now saying that an El Nino type storm system is expected in the next year. The worse(dry) it is now the wetter it will be then.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Foreverautumn said:


> I find it strange that Kalifornia, with all it's environmental rules and regulations, all it's Political Correctness and Social Engineering, is the very state that's undergoing all this drought and tribulation. :scratch


Too many hippie liberals just trying to suck the fun out of life for the rest of us.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

California has always been at least semi-arid, varying with weather cycles. Those who choose to ignore that get to live with their decision.

We preferred to choose a state that is well watered. We may get blown away by a tornado, but wherever we land, there will be water close by.


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Foreverautumn said:


> I find it strange that Kalifornia, with all it's environmental rules and regulations, all it's Political Correctness and Social Engineering, is the very state that's undergoing all this drought and tribulation. :scratch


I love this post :2thumb:
Talk about giving a backside backdoor F.U. to those getting drunk off of California Kool-Aid

Two places I will *N E V E R* live in the U.S.: New York & Calif although I am living in the soon-to-be New Calif ... Austin


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> Desalination is expensive , requires a lot of investment not ill suited for the huge volumes large scale agriculture and industry needs, need maintenance and is vulnerable to power disruptions.


So what? how does that it make it different than producing "normal" clean water that flows through our pipelines?

taken another step, here in SD county, we're using RETURN water to make DE-SAL water for an energy plant that already has ocean intake to provide cooling, and we're just desalinating the exhaust water. Since the flow of water is only thermal transfer, and never touches anything... it's not really any more expensive or complicated.

THE PROBLEM: Kommiefornia and our absolutely absurd eco-nazi's. it took over 10 years for them to get the idea of using De-Sal through the system on a water RETURN pipe... ridiculous.

California is the problem.

If Mexico can have de-sal plants... (we built them for them) and Viet Nam can have nuclear plants (we built them for them) how come we cant? oh yeah... ****tard eco-nazi's.


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

Been in NorCal, between two rivers, for three generations. I remember reading that the American Southwest historically has been a much drier area. People went on a building binge with the invention of air conditioning. Golf courses, unlimited urban sprawl...etc If it weren't for A/C, 3/4 of the people couldn't or wouldn't live there. I've been saving and using grey water, the only areas outside that get fresh water are the garden and small sections of lawn(slowly getting rid of it all). Like Grimm said, next year it might be flooding to worry about, who knows. One thing for sure is that the more we overpopulate the bigger each crisis gets, just the way it is.
California is one beautiful State in my book, but we're all entitled to our own opinion.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

machinist said:


> California has always been at least semi-arid, varying with weather cycles. Those who choose to ignore that get to live with their decision.
> 
> We preferred to choose a state that is well watered. We may get blown away by a tornado, but wherever we land, there will be water close by.


yeah but it's not the water. it's the hippie retards who can't do math because they spend too much time getting baked on 420

energy is safe, energy is clean and efficiently produced... but we make laws and then we have unions who control legislators... everyone has their hands into someone's pocket, and ALL of those hands are directly or indirectly in OUR pockets!

do you realize that because hybrid cars are so plentiful now that CA is losing tax "revenue" on gas sales, they are now actively discussing charging an additional MILE USAGE fee, so they can get their money back.

get "their" money back.
MY MONEY. **** THEM!!!!

CA is the definition of what's wrong with .gov They are drunk on spending OPM in Sacramento and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better.


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

Gians said:


> Been in NorCal, between two rivers, for three generations. I remember reading that the American Southwest historically has been a much drier area. People went on a building binge with the invention of air conditioning. Golf courses, unlimited urban sprawl...etc If it weren't for A/C, 3/4 of the people couldn't or wouldn't live there. I've been saving and using grey water, the only areas outside that get fresh water are the garden and small sections of lawn(slowly getting rid of it all). Like Grimm said, next year it might be flooding to worry about, who knows. One thing for sure is that the more we overpopulate the bigger each crisis gets, just the way it is.
> California is one beautiful State in my book, but we're all entitled to our own opinion.


I too live between those two rivers.


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## MCNSemperFi (Mar 25, 2014)

Too much precious water gets diverted to popular tourist/golf/resort areas like Palms Springs and Palm Desert. Those two areas should not be green, but they are bright green with water fountains all over the place. It's crazy when everyone keeps talking about and dealing with drought conditions, but these places continue to be unnaturally green with water flowing everywhere.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

MCNSemperFi said:


> Too much precious water gets diverted to popular tourist/golf/resort areas like Palms Springs and Palm Desert. Those two areas should not be green, but they are bright green with water fountains all over the place. It's crazy when everyone keeps talking about and dealing with drought conditions, but these places continue to be unnaturally green with water flowing everywhere.


I agree. None of the desert areas should have golf courses greener than a rainforest.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Dakine said:


> If Mexico can have de-sal plants... (we built them for them) and Viet Nam can have nuclear plants (we built them for them) how come we cant? oh yeah... ****tard eco-nazi's.


I have always wonder why in the long run, desalination plants were that out of the question? One of my uncles, an retired engineer who worked for SD water, always said no one else would let them have THEIR water. He told me Colorado would not let them have some water, like I was to blame because I live here. Some of my family, even with master's degrees think like that, trying to blame me for some agreement a century ago.

Water, water everywhere, and not a drop to drink.

So the current plan is causing big problems, many that have yet to play out. What plans would work better? More dams and water catchment?

I think of people buying land and trying to live on it and off of it, and it fails due to something like drought, fire, something. If it doesn't work, they move on to greener pastures. How do you do with millions of people? When you had smaller communities and it doesn't work out, you end up with ghost towns.

Nuclear plants? You want them? There is a community in northern Japan you could move to. Oh wait, their plant isn't working any more, it is poisoning our oceans, our sea food and the earth instead. Again, can't we get past only one idea or option? Sooner or later, nuclear has to be dealt with.


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

Grimm said:


> Too many hippie liberals just trying to suck the fun out of life for the rest of us.


Makes me want to completely fill my car up with gas and just leave the engine IDLE. ALL.DAY.LONG! :eyebulge::gaah:vract:


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

Dakine said:


> yeah but it's not the water. it's the hippie retards who can't do math because they spend too much time getting baked on 420


Now, now, Dakine, we musn't OFFEND the poor dears, now. If they want to fry their brains to the point of being roadkill on the Information Superhighway, that's their choice, and when and if SHTF, well that just means more nachos for us! 



Dakine said:


> energy is safe, energy is clean and efficiently produced... but we make laws and then we have unions who control legislators... everyone has their hands into someone's pocket, and ALL of those hands are directly or indirectly in OUR pockets!
> 
> do you realize that because hybrid cars are so plentiful now that CA is losing tax "revenue" on gas sales, they are now actively discussing charging an additional MILE USAGE fee, so they can get their money back.
> 
> ...


Oh, but don't you know that only the EEEEEVIL RICH EVER pay taxes! And besides, YOU DIDN'T BUILD IT!! No, Obama did, when all the roads, bridges, aqueducts, power lines, etc. magically came into being by his beneficent will! :laugh::teehee:


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Dakine said:


> So what? how does that it make it different than producing "normal" clean water that flows through our pipelines?
> 
> taken another step, here in SD county, we're using RETURN water to make DE-SAL water for an energy plant that already has ocean intake to provide cooling, and we're just desalinating the exhaust water. Since the flow of water is only thermal transfer, and never touches anything... it's not really any more expensive or complicated.


its still more expensive because it needs lot more power than cleaning up "sweet" water.
The fact that many of these are attached to nuke plants tells you something.

Fact of the matter is the statement " "they" can just build desalination plants" that you hear parroted among the press ,is misleading.....because there is no "just" about it.

Such water is much more expensive than the water that comes off the mountain.
making drinking water for Abu Dhabi , Kuwait, Saudi?
Sure.

Feeding a agricultural heartland that uses water-heavy crops, even moonsoon type crops like rice?

A different matter altogether.

There is no "just" about it.:beercheer:


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Dakine said:


> yeah but it's not the water. it's the hippie retards who can't do math because they spend too much time getting baked on 420
> 
> energy is safe, energy is clean and efficiently produced... but we make laws and then we have unions who control legislators... everyone has their hands into someone's pocket, and ALL of those hands are directly or indirectly in OUR pockets!
> 
> ...


Don't kill the messenger, but...
This rhetoric is not new and is in play in all major cities, just waiting for a 'good' time to launch or spin it to the public.
What's more - tax-by-mile is shoe horned into a couple different Federal bills (almost didn't post this because I cant find my email that has the bill numbers)

But UM yeah, it's only a matter of short time before the heavier congested cities are tax-by-mile . . . which we all know this will not be a new or replacement tax but will be yet ANOTHER tax on the public.

We have nobody to blame but ourselves - on average most Americans are greedy worrying about keeping up with the Jones' eat fast food 3-4 times a week unhealthy do not care about their neighbor next door unless they are doing something to be perceived as wrong and only worry about filling up their extended 7 year lease vehicle so they can not stay home but go out and accomplish nothing Long story short - Revolution will NEVER happen on a full stomach


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I do not understand the attraction of living in California. I visited there 50 years ago and couldn't wait to get out of the desert. We have a daughter who lives in SD now, and loves it. There must be something addictive about the air or something. But it didn't work on me. I couldn't wait to get out of the heat.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

machinist said:


> I do not understand the attraction of living in California. I visited there 50 years ago and couldn't wait to get out of the desert. We have a daughter who lives in SD now, and loves it. There must be something addictive about the air or something. But it didn't work on me. I couldn't wait to get out of the heat.


I did not come here by choice back in 1987. My dad's company moved us out here. BUT I stayed by choice after 1998. Now I am "forced" to stay because of K, Roo and my folks.

I just want out of this hell!
:gaah:


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> its still more expensive because it needs lot more power than cleaning up "sweet" water.
> The fact that many of these are attached to nuke plants tells you something.
> 
> Fact of the matter is the statement " "they" can just build desalination plants" that you hear parroted among the press ,is misleading.....because there is no "just" about it.
> ...


I disagree on what you're calling facts.

We wouldnt have a company spending the $$$money$$$ to pay for MONTHS of torn up roads (approved by the cities involved) which they will dig up and rebuild... so they can bury the NEW pipelines for de-sal water to flow from the energy plant inland unless they were gonna get profit on the back end of it, and not later, sooner!

By the way, I have some lovely photos and video during the recent wildfire evacuations of our coastal cities while those fantastic public works had already turned 4 lane roads into 2 lane roads, one each way. Could they possibly know about a May version of Santa Ana's? of course not, but it's yet another example of retarded city behavior to turn a major thoroughfare into a chokepoint while the works park their vehicles on the street 24/7 instead of.... oh I dunno... SEIZING the soccer field which is on the other side of the sidewalk and using that as a staging ground.

Everything .gov touches turns into shit. 

Also, the reason the "heartland" turned back into a dust bowl, I agree it was not a rain forest by far LOL!... we willfully turned off the water from the north to protect the "delta smelt"

We can turn the most productive (water artificially supplied) farmland on the planet back into desert for a delta smelt fish, but we can let windfarms that are killing Eagles run full speed ahead, because.... green energy > all hmmm...

Surf City was offered FREE water, FREE. every house gets free water, just let us put the de-sal plant off your coast, it's an advantageous place, and they said "NO!" because they didnt want the factory to be a blight on their picturesque landscape.

If there was ever a state that needed a "reset button" it's us... and we need it ASAP! because the longer things go here, the more likely it is they will steamroll all the other states downstream.


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

machinist said:


> I do not understand the attraction of living in California. I visited there 50 years ago and couldn't wait to get out of the desert. We have a daughter who lives in SD now, and loves it. There must be something addictive about the air or something. But it didn't work on me. I couldn't wait to get out of the heat.


As you know it's a huge State, lots of different climates(political ones too), we get very hot days for a while then an ocean breeze will slowly work it's way into the valley. Just about everything will grow here, my grandparents started with a vegetable garden that sold to restaurants, before they started their own. At least you and Grimm have lived here machinist so I respect your opinions. Downtown LA and Sacto are just a small part of a very large and beautiful State. Much like upper state New York is really nice too.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Dakine said:


> Surf City was offered FREE water, FREE. every house gets free water, just let us put the de-sal plant off your coast, it's an advantageous place, and they said "NO!" because they didnt want the factory to be a blight on their picturesque landscape.


I grew up in Huntington Beach. I spent my summers as a kid and teen at the city beach.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Northern California...which is basically anything _*NORTH*_ of Sacramento is really very different than anything south of Sac in both culture and climate. The farther north one gets in Cali..the more rural it becomes. Its cowboy ******* country. Huge sheep, horse and cattle ranches along with hundreds of acres of rice fields, walnut and almond, and olive plantations along the upper inland areas. On the east is more livestock ranching, potatoes, national forests amonst old volcanoes. Tons of alalfa and hay fields and wild mountainous areas full of sustainable timber. Along the coast is beautiful rolling hills dotted with vast amounts of livestock ranching and wine grape fields.
The farther up the western coastline the more wild, mountainous rugged timber one will encounter with small towns nestled into the valleys between the small mountain passes. Many blue/green lakes dot the land along with hundreds of rivers and creeks in various lush green watersheds. Salmon, trout fishing paradise galore. Angelers from all over the world come to Northern Cali to fish our rivers. And among all this we have some of the biggest trees in the world.

Southern Cali is a nightmare..concrete, cities, too many people crammbed into hot shitty areas. If someone came to cali and only saw what southern cali had to offer Id run too..Its a expensive hell hole mostly.

Northern Cali is beautiful but unfortunetly the overall liberal polictics out of southern cali make policy/have infulence for the northern half. Which is why the northern counties are trying to explore how we can seperate from the dysfunctional southern half and Sac...well see I spose...


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