# Generator spare parts.



## jsriley5

OK first lets assume I have a Generator and have conversions to allow it to be ran on gas, LP, or home distilled alcohol. So while not running all the time or even every day or every week I will have a generator that can be ran when needed for a goodly long time regardless of circumstances as long as those circumstances haven't caused me to lose the whole shebang. What kind of parts should be stocked for this 5000 watt generator what in you generator users experience are the parts most likely to go bad and with what kind of frequency? 

I have decent small engine and some electrical experience and have been responsible for upkeep of most of my vehicles lawn care equiptment etc sinc e forever so I can get most things done. However other than a little on job and millitary experience I have not used or upkept a generator before so those whith experience please give a little advice. As far as the engines are concerned are there any real differences to any other small gas engine on lawn equiptment? and do the generators themselves need much part replacemtnt. 

And yeah I know a complete backup would be best but is not likely at least for some time. and even if I did I"d want parts to maintain bith of them for asz long as I"m able.

TIA
JSR5


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## hiwall

carb kit, ignition module, spark plug


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## zombieresponder

hiwall said:


> carb kit, ignition module, spark plug


Plus a roll of fuel line, and any vacuum line/crankcase breather hoses. A roll of starter rope and a spare float or two for the carb as well.

Almost forgot... you need to run the generator with a moderate load on it somewhat frequently(most do it once a month). Sometimes the fields in the alternator head will lose their magnetism and then it won't produce power. If this happens, plug a drill motor into the generator(running), depress the drill motor trigger, and spin the motor in reverse by hand. Sometimes it will work, but if not then you either need to have the alternator head rewound or just replace it.


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## jsriley5

So pretty much the standard stuff for keeping a small engine running then. Nothing in particular with the generator side? Does it require anything special to rewind one besides the wire and patience? should I even worry about just plan to make do with my lil bit of solar generation if the genny fails. How common is that problem you mentioned ZombieResponder? I hadn't heard of it before but then I had't been looking into gennys much before. Is that somthing you should plan to deal with eventually or somthing you really shouldn't have to worry about but you were just giving me the heads up "just in case" ? And yeah I"m worried the Genny I have is my Fiance's and it hasn't been run for about 4 years. I"m disabled so anything I do gets done at a snails pace I need to get it drug out cleaned and given a good once over and of course started and tested then I plan to store it in a more accessible location for periodic preventive maintenance. But now I"m worried it isn't going to generate even once I get it dug out and started. If it helps your opinions btw it is a coleman powermate 5000 extended run. Think it's supposed to be rated for like 6200 surge ande 5000 continuous. So it at least WAS a good genny. was hardly used before.


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## zombieresponder

I know nothing about rewinding them. I assume it's relatively simple, but electricity isn't my bag. I don't think the fields losing polarity is a huge issue either, it's just something that happens occasionally.

I bought five generators that weren't running, and obviously hadn't run in a while. Two of them were identical, which as it turned out was lucky for me since the alternator head on the complete one had failed(something came loose inside and tore the windings to pieces). I swapped the heads and it generates power just fine. Another one needs a new carb, but does run and generates power(it's a coleman powermate, 5kw). Something I found out about the coleman that I have is that they used two different carbs, and parts aren't available for one of them. I'll assume that yours also has a Briggs and Stratton OHV engine, so it would be a good idea to purchase a factory service manual for it since some of the specs are different from the older "L" head engines. It's manual #276781 on the B&S website, something like $22. http://www.briggsandstratton.com/shop/learning-resources/Repair%20Manuals/

I'd drag it out, change the oil, drain any old fuel and refill with fresh. It will probably generate power just fine, though I'd double check to be sure. Running it regularly will also ensure that it's got semifresh fuel.


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER

Anyone know about a multi-fuel generator? I cant find one and i might just find an m35a2 engine and turn it into a generator if i cant find one.


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## LincTex

EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER said:


> Anyone know about a multi-fuel generator? I cant find one and i might just find an m35a2 engine and turn it into a generator if i cant find one.


Those old White-Hercules engines are not efficient... the multi-fuel feature is not enough reason to get one. Parts are hard to get unless you get mil-surp, and then the supply is spotty.

Just do what I do: separate generators  
(three is two, two is one, one is none, etc.)

I actually have several; 
A) 13Hp Honda powered Coleman Powermate (8500 watts?). It ALWAYS starts, no matter what. Amazing engines!

B) Old motorhome Onan CCK 4.0 with the heads milled and timing advanced for propane or natural gas. Retrofitting a different starting system on it now.

C) Kubota 3-cylinder diesel with a 6.5Kw Marathon head from an old Terex light tower.

D) A few other random gas and diesel engines and generator heads, alternators, etc.


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## zombieresponder

EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER said:


> Anyone know about a multi-fuel generator? I cant find one and i might just find an m35a2 engine and turn it into a generator if i cant find one.


Generally, you buy a gas generator and then buy a kit to convert for NG/ propane.


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## Nadja

I have seen many gennies advertised as "tri-fuel" in the big box stores and also northern tool. Most of the chinese ones are junk, like the coleman gennies.


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## zombieresponder

Nadja said:


> I have seen many gennies advertised as "tri-fuel" in the big box stores and also northern tool. Most of the chinese ones are junk, like the coleman gennies.


Maybe it's a regional thing. I've never seen one around here.


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## LincTex

JS Riley, one thing to also keep in mind as that the common 3600 RPM generator almost never lasts beyond 1000 hours, and many are lucky to make it to 400. I knew an off-gridder in Montana in the early 90's that had a little better success with the Briggs engines ones over the Tecumseh (pure garbage). I have one 3600 RPM Honda powered Coleman Powermate with about 460 or so hours on it, and it doesn't show any signs of slowing down at all.

If you want a generator that will REALLY go the extra long mile, look for an older Onan or Kohler 1800 RPM unit.


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## jsriley5

I really have to get "our" generator dug out maybe I"m lucky and it is a honda powered one. Most likely a briggs though from what I can see of it. I"ll keep the Onan and Kohler units in mind and will have to figure where to find the operating RPM as I don't recall that being a common peice of information. I think before I spent what those units cost I"d probably invest in a bigger and better Solar power system. Was just wanting a Genny around mostly for low initial cost and conveinience. Solar is less major maint. but looks like more minor continuous maint. I dunno trying to balance things out on a shoestring budget. Story of my life I"m afraid. All I can do is the best I can with what I have. But man am I gonna have a hey day when I win the lottery  . 

But thanks really fellas for the info more I know the better decisions i'M likely to make. Knowledge is power.


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## LincTex

jsriley5 said:


> I really have to get "our" generator dug out ... from what I can see of it.


A picture is worth a 1000 words!

During Hurricane Ike, My uncle and two neighbors shared power from his Generac (bought with Home Depot credit three days before landfall  ) and they (combined) burned about $70 worth of gas each day (not counting what the truck used to go fill cans) so a generator only needs to last as long as your fuel supply does, LOL!

The old Onan and Kohler gens can be made to run *QUIET!!!!!!* 
I have not heard many 3600 RPM gens that run very quiet at all... and they attract a lot of attention!



jsriley5 said:


> I will have to figure where to find the operating RPM as I don't recall that being a common peice of information.


It is easy to tell just by looking at it, really. I am 99.999% sure what you have runs at 3600 and not 1800 RPMs.

3600 = small, light, LOUD
1800 = large, heavy, QUIET


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## Nadja

The Kohler twins from the old motor homes can be had for a song. I bought mine about 3 years ago for $200.00. It is a 7.0 and does it put out the power. Elec. start, not to terrible bad on gas, and almost no way to wear it out. Spin on oil filter and 4 quarts of oil every 2-300 hours. They can be converted to run on propane for around $400.00 or less depending on your skill level. The Onans are another rock steady unit, however the parts will cost you an arm and a leg. Made by cummings . But both are excellent units, running on 1800 rpms. You can generally find both of them on Craigslist.org. Look around, you may be surprised at what you can find.


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## jsriley5

I need t definitely watch Craigs list. Course it won't mean much until I"ve got the money to drop on it hopefully the one I got will be suitable to provide 4 or so hours a week for a good long time. It is really just back up to the little bit of solar I have and may get fired up intermittently to power some tools like a table saw or drill. And early on to power the deep freeze enough each day to keep things in god shape til we use it up or convert it to dried or canned goods. And then used little until there is great need. Major injury and the "doctor" needs all the light he can get or some such. Was thinking to get a itty bitty 2000watt surge 2 cycle to use when not much load was expected but I wonder now if I shuldn't instead stay with what I have and save to get somthing bigger instead. More decisions thanks guys I had this all worked out in my head till I talked to you  Now I need to go find a battery thread to bug you about other things that are bothering me.


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## LincTex

Let's see what you have, first!


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> JS Riley, one thing to also keep in mind as that the common 3600 RPM generator almost never lasts beyond 1000 hours, and many are lucky to make it to 400. I knew an off-gridder in Montana in the early 90's that had a little better success with the Briggs engines ones over the Tecumseh (pure garbage). I have one 3600 RPM Honda powered Coleman Powermate with about 460 or so hours on it, and it doesn't show any signs of slowing down at all.
> 
> If you want a generator that will REALLY go the extra long mile, look for an older Onan or Kohler 1800 RPM unit.


For longevity, nothing beats the Lister type cold start engines. They're huge for the power they put out, but the low rpm(700 or so max) doesn't stress parts anywhere near as much. No electronics, not even a glow plug.

Unfortunately for us though, the infinite wisdom of the EPA decided that these engines polluted too much so they can no longer be imported.


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## jsriley5

OK I give up I'm forgettin the whole thing and building a steam engine  joking of course though I wish I had an old thresher and engine cool factor and oh how useful they could be. I"ll get the genny dug out tommorrow got busy today.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> For longevity, nothing beats the Lister type cold start engines. They're huge for the power they put out, but the low rpm(700 or so max) doesn't stress parts anywhere near as much. No electronics, not even a glow plug.
> 
> Unfortunately for us though, the infinite wisdom of the EPA decided that these engines polluted too much so they can no longer be imported.


You can still buy them as "air compressors". 
The injection pump and other diesel parts are shipped in a separate "spare parts" box/crate.


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## jsriley5

Well got it dug out like to killed my self doing it though. I"ll get help to get it out of the Garage this weekend and get it running. And find some stuff to plug in see if it will carry a load. As I said befor eit's a Coleman Powermate extended run 5000 watt load. I can now also say it is a 10hp Briggs and stratton engine. Wonder what makes it extended run? Just the fact it has a five gallon tank? Or is there some different in the generator head as well to keep it cooler or somthing. Anyway I"ll at least be able to start looking for my spare parts kits. And hopefully not but possible first parts kit since it's been setting a while. Wish me luck this weekend. Any suggestions for load testing since I don't have any fancy test equiptment? I have my lil fridge inthe Garage figure to try that out for sure. table saw, skill saw. then maybe two or three at once but I imagine even all that will come short of the 5000 load and the 6200 or so surge.


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## LincTex

jsriley5 said:


> Wonder what makes it extended run? Just the fact it has a five gallon tank?
> 
> 5000 load and the 6200 surge.


Yes, a bigger tank. No other changes.
I have one of these.


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> You can still buy them as "air compressors".
> The injection pump and other diesel parts are shipped in a separate "spare parts" box/crate.


Oh? I'd pretty much given up hope of ever laying hands on one. Who has them?  I've searched the internets a lot and never come up with that info.


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## zombieresponder

jsriley5 said:


> 10hp Briggs and stratton engine. Any suggestions for load testing since I don't have any fancy test equiptment? I have my lil fridge inthe Garage figure to try that out for sure. table saw, skill saw. then maybe two or three at once but I imagine even all that will come short of the 5000 load and the 6200 or so surge.


It's 3600 rpm, and they are somewhat noisy. A different/better muffler could cut it down some.

If you have a "kill a watt" http://www.amazon.com/P3-International-P4400-Electricity-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1348800377&sr=1-1&keywords=kill+a+watt or a good multimeter you can check that it's actually producing 60hz, but otherwise there's not much to check if it produces power. It's going to vary a little, but it should be close. I wouldn't worry much about it unless it's more than a few points off.

If you have an electric space heater, use that for a load. They usually pull a lot of wattage and most should load it to half or so of the 5k rating. Easy way to figure it is volts x amps = watts. Look for the amp rating on the data tag of the device you want to run. Anything with a motor will draw 2x-3x as much power when starting up as it does when running continuously.

Something I forgot earlier is extra brushes for the generator head.


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> Oh? I'd pretty much given up hope of ever laying hands on one. Who has them?


There are several places... but the price has gone up a LOT LOT LOT since when I bought mine! You need to include the word "Listeroid" in your searches.

There was a gut on ebay selling them for a long time, but I do not see one listed right now. It was over $2000.

I would also ask at this forum:
http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?PHPSESSID=n9lgkpgi1qlasieocch3bgf5q7&board=2.0 ...a guy on the board named dieselgman sells kits for $1990 back in Feb 2012


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## LincTex

zombieresponder said:


> Something I forgot earlier is extra brushes for the generator head.


A 3600 RPM Coleman will be brushless, self-exciting. Diodes are used to convert AC power induced through the rotor into DC so that you can get a stable magnetic field from the rotor.

Some good reading on the subject:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/o-t-help-portable-generator-165564/ (start with post #9)

A few spare diodes would be a good idea, they are located on the rotor at the end furthest from the engine.


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## jsriley5

Started with post 9 and found myself reading an argument by people who are talking way ov er my head  But I"ll make sure to find some diodes and a capacitor. And I'll pick up that multimeter Zombie suggested as well and then see if I can find a proper trouble shooting and maintenace manual for it though I"m thinking if there was one around that arguement might have been alot shorter so there may not be one I"ll finish reading there and see how it turns out. Thanks for the new generator specific info gives me some definite directions to go in my 'gathering"

One thing I'm learning here and there from comments is my excitment to see it was a "good Brand Name" ie Coleman might have been overly hopeful since everyone seems to speak of the coleman gennies as poorly designed and constructed cheaply made. That is a big let down especially when I was hoping for a long lasting machine. I'ts looking like anything in my price range is basically a disposable 

I"ll have to set aside my money and scour craigslist constantly for one of the onan or that other name (forgetful is my middle name) rv generators.

Whats your thoughts on the military generators such as I could get from here http://store.colemans.com/cart/military-generators-c-22.html


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## zombieresponder

LincTex said:


> There are several places... but the price has gone up a LOT LOT LOT since when I bought mine! You need to include the word "Listeroid" in your searches.
> 
> There was a gut on ebay selling them for a long time, but I do not see one listed right now. It was over $2000.
> 
> I would also ask at this forum:
> http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?PHPSESSID=n9lgkpgi1qlasieocch3bgf5q7&board=2.0 ...a guy on the board named dieselgman sells kits for $1990 back in Feb 2012


Yeah, I think I only searched for "lister". The price difference will easily be made up by the difference in fuel consumption, at least from the information I've seen. I'll check the link, thanks!

Edit: I *think* the coleman generator I have has brushes in the alternator head. I know the generac I have does, but it's been a while since I looked at the coleman.

Edit 2: I don't know much about the military gensets except that the military underrates the power output. There's a fellow over on the pirate4x4 forum that sells them and is quite knowledgeable. I'm pretty sure I saved a link somewhere, so if I find it I'll post it here.


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## Well_Driller

zombieresponder said:


> For longevity, nothing beats the Lister type cold start engines. They're huge for the power they put out, but the low rpm(700 or so max) doesn't stress parts anywhere near as much. No electronics, not even a glow plug.
> 
> Unfortunately for us though, the infinite wisdom of the EPA decided that these engines polluted too much so they can no longer be imported.


You can also find a Fairbanks Morse 118 or 208 engine, they will run on natural gas, propane or gasoline. They run slow and were and still are commonly used in my area to pump oil wells. The Arrow Engine Co. now produces the replacement parts for them, and they also build those type of engines. They are rated for continuous duty and they run for years on those wells some with very little to no maintenance. I have a 7.5KW generator that is driven by a Fairbanks Morse 118 engine. The flywheels are so heavy that even a sudden large load has a delayed reaction with the governor.


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## Skeeter

*Tri fuel.*

I'm resurecting this post to prove I can use the search feature. My question is, has any one had experience with a tri fuel generator? Winco makes them in the power range I need,but, I don't know much more.


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## zombieresponder

Skeeter said:


> I'm resurecting this post to prove I can use the search feature. My question is, has any one had experience with a tri fuel generator? Winco makes them in the power range I need,but, I don't know much more.


Steven Harris did two good shows a couple of days ago on the survival podcast(itunes and probably a few other places). They'll also be linked on his site solar1234.com .

If you run NG, power output will be roughly 75% less than the gasoline rating. Propane will also reduce the power output, but not as much. Beyond that, all I know is that both burn cleaner and supposedly give fewer problems than gasoline.


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## LincTex

I converted my Onan CCK4.0-3R to propane... same set-up as natural gas. Just have to twist one screw a bit to change between fuels. Very easy to convert.

The power loss can be adjusted for somewhat... if you can do engine work, raise the compression ratio as much as you can. Also advance the ignition timing, Onan says go from 18 degrees BTDC to 25 degrees. Very easy to do on an Onan, no so much other brands.


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## Skeeter

ok thanks for the input.


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## Well_Driller

I have an Onan 2KW generator that I run on propane. Usually on natural gas is where you see a drop in power, but on propane very little to non if things are setup right. I get the full 2KW output on my onan running on propane.


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