# Dealing with Lazy People



## jebrown (Nov 7, 2008)

In teaching disaster preparedness I am often told that "We will take in those who aren't prepared but they will have to work and if they will not work they will have to leave."
My question is what your plan is if they will not work, just what to lounge all day raid the food supply when they want to with no regard as to how long it may be before any chance of replacement.
If they refuse to leave then what? Do you physically throw them out and risk a fist fight? What about others in the group who would feel bad about turning them out and want to let them stay even if they are freeloading.
Will you be able to stand up to their tirade about you being selfish and uncaring as they do their best to make you feel guilty about turning them out?
What if they want to take over leadership and do things as they see fit even if it compromises the safety of the group. 
What if they want to give away precious supplies to others who come knocking looking for a hand out even if they don’t stay.
Even if it is your house and your rules others may side with them in order to avoid arguments and confrontations. 
What if they invite others to join the group. Most likely these will be lazy dead beats as well.
Even if they agree with you about how long you all will be on your own they really believe that help is only a day or two away. Then the government will show up with boxes and boxes of everything the group will need. 
They believe there will be ample food, water, toiletries, clothing, and generators with plenty of gas, cots and blankets. After all that is the purpose of FEMA.
They will accuse you of being pessimistic and they will show no thought about the future beyond tomorrow or the next day

Jerry


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

jebrown said:


> In teaching disaster preparedness I am often told that "We will take in those who aren't prepared but they will have to work and if they will not work they will have to leave."
> My question is what your plan is if they will not work, just what to lounge all day raid the food supply when they want to with no regard as to how long it may be before any chance of replacement.
> If they refuse to leave then what? Do you physically throw them out and risk a fist fight? What about others in the group who would feel bad about turning them out and want to let them stay even if they are freeloading.
> Will you be able to stand up to their tirade about you being selfish and uncaring as they do their best to make you feel guilty about turning them out?
> ...


Wow, Jerry that's alot of 'what ifs'. Sounded like that TV series "The Colony" there for a minute. Didn't they have the same quandary, one wanted to give everything away, but, the majority stood up and said no. :scratch

Have that group that thinks FEMA will take care of everything, go out and look for them, that should keep them busy, just don't let them back in.:sssh:

Well now, back to the digging, enough of a break.:nuts:


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I am a lazy person. I am proud to be a lazy person. 

I only like to do a job once. I will plan it out, prepare myself / work-area, then I will work hard at it, do it right, crack a beer and rest. Sometime a lazy person is the right person to get to do a job - they will do it, do it right and go back to their relaxation.

The kind of person I wouldn't want around me is someone who is nothing more than a leach - sucking the life out of everyone / everything around them. If it is my house / land / area that I am the owner of - my rules will over-ride anything that they say .. and if they don't like it ... they can run away or become a lampshade.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> I am a lazy person. I am proud to be a lazy person.
> 
> I only like to do a job once. I will plan it out, prepare myself / work-area, then I will work hard at it, do it right, crack a beer and rest. Sometime a lazy person is the right person to get to do a job - they will do it, do it right and go back to their relaxation.
> 
> The kind of person I wouldn't want around me is someone who is nothing more than a leach - sucking the life out of everyone / everything around them. If it is my house / land / area that I am the owner of - my rules will over-ride anything that they say .. and if they don't like it ... they can run away or become a lampshade.


Now is that a lampshade made 'from' them, very attractive especially if they have a lot of tattoos.:sssh:

Gosh if this keeps up this afternoon I won't be getting any digging done.:beercheer:


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

This is how I would deal with the lazy. It is all a matter of leverage. When you have all the leverage, you can motivate pretty much anybody. 

Where they sleep. What they eat. How much the eat, sleep or drink. What supplies and equipment have access to. These can all be regulated in your favor. 

Think about it. Would you like a place to sleep, lazy person? Here is a hammer. Go build yourself a place to live. Sorry about that unfortunate accident to your tent. Don't worry. It should stop raining in a few days. 

If subtle hints don't work, I would move it up to the next step. Motivator mode. At this point, I would be part Drill Instructor, part Mad Max. Keeping the lazy people close. Making sure they are watched every moment of every day. Ensuring that everyone in the community knows how lazy these people are. Making sure they are taking part in important projects with the rest of the community counting on them. If they fail or decide to slack off, everyone is going to be pissed.

If this STILL doesn't work, I am done trying. I would call a meeting. With everyone around, the unreformed lazy people will be ordered to leave. If they refuse, I will shoot them. If I don't have the bullets to spare, they will be dispatched with whatever is handy at the time. I would ensure that this is done very publicly and that all in attendance understood why.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

The lazy person question is very important. Dealing with just one is difficult. Especially if someone in the group likes them. Once you try to kick them out other people might step in and start begging for them to stay. Worse yet they might start making threats if you throw "uncle useless" out of the house. In a survival situation this kind of fight could easily lead to someone getting shot. Being thrown out would probably mean certain death in some situations. You can bet even the laziest person wouldn't give up without a fight.

Also what if there is more than one. We all know that lazy people outnumber the sane hardworking people. If a bunch of them show up they'll start making crazy demands. They'll suddenly declare the bug out a "democracy" and start voting on everything. Like having a vote to eat all the food right now. Or to trade away all the ammo. When you say no they'll accuse you of being a tyrant.

Then you'd have to kick them all out. You have to sleep some time. That's when they'll get you. Then you'll be kicked out in the middle of the night. Lazy idiots love democracy because they know they outnumber the sane people. That's why we have so many stupid laws around gun control. If enough idiots vote...

At my bug in location only the prepared will be welcome. It's like in the movie aliens where Hicks says "we can't afford to let even one of those bastards in here."

Picture of a lazy person below.


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

A candid picture of Canadian in his native habitat.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

I let lazy people in my house.

Game over man! Game over!


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

You hit on a pet peeve of mine, sorry can't stand nor will i put up with lazy slug's. Not gona happen no work no d## eat period. In a shtf thang you better pull your weight or out the door. If sick or disabled understand, but folk's who suck the life outa other peoples living will not make it around here. In a group anyone can do something to help out, don't have to be gunho on everything, but laying around would not be tolerated here. Allen_idaho you got it down brother. :congrat:


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

My SHTF plans don't include any others but my immediate family. I am quite private about what I have and where I want to go. Things are stashed and I am not expecting to have to deal with others. I want to look like I have nothing too.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Good idea if ya can but we live in a close comunity, and they are some nosy folk's here, we will have to work together or fall toghether, not my ideal place but done right it could be done. If we stay one on one, we would fall one by one. Most neghibors are family this would be a large area to assualt, tresspassers will be shot and suivors will be shot agian. He! He! I hope it never comes to that but having said that, our family will come before stranger's. I think most areas will be about the same. Sailaway you must plan to deal with other's one way or the other. Some outsiders could be a help you must judge that one, it would be a matter of life or death. Sucks i know but we will have to face that sooner or later. I hope its a long time like 20 years, that is dreaming. Keep ya powder dry, best of luck to all. We will need it.


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## sinbad (Oct 27, 2009)

OK guys I am on the same line about throwing out lazy people who won't participate in a survival situation. But let's be careful about people's shortcomings. I , for example, fully understand the point, however, if you ask me to help slaughter a goat for example, I may be more than reluctant. NOT because i am lazy or won't help , but because I have a very very soft heart. OK, maybe I am a coward or whatever, but it is not laziness . Ditto for going up a mast to tie some rope. I am too much afraid of heights. Two or three times, and some of you may put their finger on the trigger. LOL

I think that in a survival situations, UNDERSTANDING every member of the group is very important. So, a guy like me for example can be spared the slaughtering stuff and asked to help in the garden or gather wood ..etc. instead of being shot. OK ???


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## allen_idaho (Oct 21, 2009)

There is a difference between laziness and fear. If a person is afraid to climb a ladder or kill a living creature, that is understandable. You can work around that and reassign them other things to do. I've come across this problem before.


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

I'm deathly afraid of heights. That and big spiders. Everything else I'm ok. Some people don't like the dark, confined spaces, etc.

That's the difference (or at least one difference) between a leader and a good leader-the good leader will ask questions, analyze his people, and assign tasks based on people's skill sets and abilities. I wouldn't climb onto our barn roof if you did have a gun to my head. That's all there is to it. But I can work on the pump in the tiny dark springhouse with no problem.

Fair division of labor goes 2 ways-what people like to do and are good at as well as what people hate to do and are bad at. I'd never put someone on the butcher team who cried their way through every animal that they fed the group. That'd be cruel on my part. What's the point of survival if you are guilt ridden and miserable?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I have a boss who has two sons. The two sons also work with me - one of which seems to have the attitude "_just do it for me while I take the credit_". In a SHTF scenario, that son would not be welcome around me. The other son would have to prove himself worthy.

The problem now is, because they are brothers, they would want to stick together ... my problem then becomes - how do I turn both into lampshades?


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

NaeKid said:


> The kind of person I wouldn't want around me is someone who is nothing more than a leach - sucking the life out of everyone / everything around them. If it is my house / land / area that I am the owner of - my rules will over-ride anything that they say .. and if they don't like it ... they can run away or become a lampshade.


I'm all for humor, sarcasm and cynicism, but the lampshade thing is just too historically repulsive to be used. Not even funny. Bullet in the head, yeah that's funny, but we don't really do lampshades, do we?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

The lampshade thing came from a horror movie that I watched a very long time ago ... I think there was something about a stone-pit that the aggressor tossed young females into to starve for a while before skinning and turning them into a lampshade or jacket or whatever.

I did a search on it, and, all that came up was something about Nazi's during the war .. didn't think of that. Sorry


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

Not personally offended, but it sends the wrong message our fresh skin head zombie neighbors in upper Idaho. They still read comic books.:nuts:


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

We have a simple rule: "No workee, no eatee". Most folks understand that. Should they not they can move along. Of course this requires some thought. Having someone that is privy to you preps, security, number, schedules and practices, might come back with new pals in an effort to take your stuff.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

SurvivalNut said:


> I'm all for humor, sarcasm and cynicism, but the lampshade thing is just too historically repulsive to be used. Not even funny. Bullet in the head, yeah that's funny, but we don't really do lampshades, do we?


I guess I'm the one who went to the lamp shade dark side, sorry, it is a joke my son and I have between us, he is covered from leg to neck with tattoos, I have none, and my comment to him was, jokingly, that he should leave his skin to science, or a museum for display. If I offended anyone I am truly sorry. And I am aware of the Nazi horrors also, be assured this is not connected in any way.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

A few things you may consider when the time comes...

Once that lazy person is out of your hands, they are out of your control. That person knows the ins and outs of your location. They know the weaknesses, and they know how to access your resources. They know your security arrangements. This can be extremely dangerous--in fact, the greatest danger you will ever face.

Such people are usually conniving bastards, as they are used to wheedling, whining and working hard at finding the path of least resistance. They already have very low, base morals... and if they're facing starvation/death, then there is no limit as to what they may do. They may convince another person in your group to steal for them. Maybe they will take your info to someone or some group stronger than you that will overpower you. Maybe they will burn you out of your home/resources, or poison or destroy what you have, "If I can't have any, NO ONE can!" 

Priorities and value shifts when TSHTF. We once would not have used deadly force against someone stealing our car from our driveway. But now, our rice, beans and providing for our own group becomes much more important than a car ever was. Maybe even a life or death issue. It is, in my book.

Some perspectives that may help...

There are crimes of commission and crimes of omission. Omission crimes include neglect of your elderly parents who cannot do anything for their selves. Likewise, in the situation you outlined, the lazy person commits a "crime" by failing to take care of their obligations to everyone else. 

Effectively, they are no different than a disease. They are no different than a mauling bear in your midst. They are taking food out of your mouth. They are intentionally robbing you in a time of your extreme need. How would you deal with an armed robber in such a time of precious resources? The answer is clear.

My recommendation...

I would have everyone entering my group agree that we are in a life and death situation. They would all agree, individually, to give 100% to the survival of the group, in line with their abilities. It is a blood pact. 

You thus set up the derelict to fail. They clearly understand they have everything to lose if they refuse to honor their commitment. THEY make the choice to fail. They make the choice *for* you. They have intentionally committed a crime and a breach of your trust and well-being for which there must be a severe penalty.

Where you actually draw the line, and what punishment you choose is up to you. It will depend on the particular situation and the people involved. Some will fail at doing the necessary thing because they can't intentionally harm another person. They can actually live with the consequences--starving their selves and their dependents out. 

The problem is that others depend on them to do whatever necessary to preserve life. Thus that type of person should not be the one to deal with this type of incident, regardless of whether they are the leader. Perhaps there will be someone in the group who sees it as I have described it, and they may be willing to take care of business if you can't.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

*Dealing with lazies*

Fn/Form's post has an ominous undertone, at least how I first read it, but then it reminded me of a personal story.

*So I retire from the Army, nothing can phase me, and I start teaching High School. One day I wake up and through the glass of my front door I see a note taped to the glass. It basically says, "I am going to kill you and your entire family". Only I know the kid's handwriting and spelling. So I call the local sheriff, they finger print it, and the kid admits it in the Principal's office. I want the kid tossed out. Then the Principal leans on me&#8230;small town, ruin his life, we can keep a better eye on him on campus than running the street, yadda yadda. Sure, fine, I agree. Well, the next semester the kid is back in my classroom. Same attitude. Only now his big brother leans on him and says that if he pulls another stunt like that he'll kick his a$$. Other than talking to himself regulary, he was a fine student after that..*

While in LIGHTS OUT, DIES THE FIRE or AVALON Zombie Biker Gangs will get you, in a national SHTF situation, it would be more of a death sentence to boot them out, all drama aside. Self correcting.

In the Army as a Commander, you learn to come into a situation full bore with no excuses or apologies. You run and everyone runs at your speed or they are out. Yes, you leave no one behind, and those are those that have earned the right to be brothers and comrades.

Anyone else goes home.

When I used to call soldiers in for Article 15's (Army Non-judicial Punishment), I used to call the soldier's Mother. When the soldier came in to my office, I'd read him his rights, explain the charges and then hand over the phone. Mom would tell him his sister was pregnant, the dog was dead, Dad was laid off, the Plant was closed and he'd damn well better keep sending money home.

The Soldier usually became an outstanding citizen after that.

Anyway back to subject. Follow the rules. Keep your enforcers close to you (whether it's big brother, Mom or Uncle Joe) and tolerate no shortcuts.

The lazy ones will figure out the rest.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

You are correct, SurvivalNut, I focused on the more severe end. In addition to your good advice, I believe there are a few reasons why we must spend some time considering the severe end.

Some of us have not dealt with these types of people. Or, maybe we have forgotten what it is like to deal with them. We need to be educated and think it through. There is too much at stake to let a "friend" destroy it.

Several fellow officers and I had an opportunity to review our cases from just the last few years. It was almost shocked at what we have handled in just a short amount of time. These "functional" criminals are out there, walk among us. The functional are probably the worst kind of criminal, because they are hard to detect.

We, as preppers, may be forced to consider adding people we simply cannot vet as well as we would like. Examples of people who can fool others:

The BTK serial killer in Kansas. He had some obvious personal/professional problems, but was able to walk and live among everyday church/societal people for many years.

A "disaster" area staffed with first responders. Incident command structure in effect for a long-term incident. Sexual harassment and drug use among the responders--those holding public offices. A rare occurrence, but something that can make a team a waste of resources instead of an asset.

A personal example. I had an uncle that was caught, while out of town on business, with an underage prostitute boy and what appeared to be sex bondage material. The family would not have known unless he was caught. That aunt had suspicions about a few things, but nothing of that magnitude.

We shouldn't live in fear of others, and we can't live a life of constant paranoia. We *can* maintain a position of advantage over others, and we *can* perform due diligence in limiting their positions or knowledge of our operations.

Our world--and certainly the SHTF world--isn't as nice as many of us are. We as a group make a lot of PHYSICAL preparations. There will also be a lot of people problems we'll have to work on.

I want all of us to prosper. Wise as a serpent, gentle as a dove.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

I did have an opine on this one but it's a tough one for sure. Small groups are gona run into some hard to deal with thing's. If the group want's to make it such thing's should be discussed before it slip's up on them.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

I think work in a survival situation never ends. So what if you finished some thing, there's always more to do. If they wouldn't leave I'd make them no problem.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Dean said:


> I think work in a survival situation never ends. So what if you finished some thing, there's always more to do.


You don't need a survival situation. Our little place here keeps us plenty busy now. If someone wants to hunker down with us, they better be ready to pull their weight or they won't be welcome.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

My place not so much. Although if your coming over for dinner you do have to watch the kid while I cook and the wife does whatever it is that wives do.


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