# The how-many-months-really confessional.



## StillStanding (Jan 24, 2009)

One time I had three months worth of food for my family of 5.

It was a huge amount of food, there on the shelves. An enormous amount of food. Well, if you go shopping every week then just imaging 12-13 grocery carts like you usually fill up, right there on the shelves. To some extent the use of dehydrated items will reduce the bulk, but it's still a #lot# of food.

I'm going to resort to a little math to illustrate this. Let's talk about flour. Now, obviously, you're not going to eat nothing but homemade bread for 90 days straight, but the calories per pound and calories per cubic foot of flour are typical of other storage foods. One pound of flour is around 1600 calories, so allowing for an active lifestyle and some inevitable waste and shrinkage you would have to figure 2 pounds of flour per person per day, if you ate nothing else. I don't know about you but I figure anything less than 3000 calories a day is a diet. So that's a 10 pound bag per day for a family of 5, so the oft-quoted year of food works out, for a family of 5, to be about 3500 pounds, or 350 10 pound bags.

That's more than will fit in your pantry and coat closet combined. It's enough that if you loaded it into your 3/4 ton truck it would make it squat like a duck. We won't even talk about what would happen if you tried to drive around town with it all loaded into your Prius.

If you put it in 5 gallon buckets you would need 140 of them. A stack 4 high is about as far as you can go for them to be stable, and is about 5' high. They stack on 12" centers so that would be a stack with a 5' by 6' footprint.

Looking at the various commercial "systems" that are out there most of them don't actually have enough caloric content to live up to the timeframes they purport to be sold for, unless you have the body size of an elf and the metabolism of a tortoise.

So, if you think you're prepared, one question to ponder is: How many months of food do you really have?


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

StillStanding said:


> One time I had three months worth of food for my family of 5.
> 
> It was a huge amount of food, there on the shelves. An enormous amount of food. Well, if you go shopping every week then just imaging 12-13 grocery carts like you usually fill up, right there on the shelves. To some extent the use of dehydrated items will reduce the bulk, but it's still a #lot# of food.
> 
> ...


I havent really thought about how many months I have since my food storage preps evolved from MRE's and canned store bought stuff like raviolis and chili mac, then ARK buckets from Costco and now I can and store my own fresh foods. I'm also eating them but replenishing way faster than I consume though, so it's a huge increase in the taste factor and the healthy aspects too.

regarding your flour example, have you considered getting a mill and grinding your own flour? One cup of wheat berries is supposed to equal 2 cups of flour if I remember correctly. Wheat berries are able to be stored for... ages??? and if you start actually cooking that way now, you'll be getting a truckload more nutrients out of your bread and baked goods than you do with store bought enriched flour which has basically nothing left in order for it to be stored long term.

I also dehydrate and then jar and vacuum seal my own scrambled eggs (also run through my mill to turn them into powder) and I make banana chips too, and I'm branching out into new things all the time.

For a family as big as yours, you'd want to prepare a lot of stuff in quarts I would imagine. For me, pint size servings are plenty, and really even that is too much sometimes, like if it's meatloaf, but a pint of home made chili or beef vegetable stew is PERFECT!!! And tastes fantastic too!


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## MsSage (Mar 3, 2012)

I had to move almost 4 years ago. I had moved my "stores" into a storage unit since it was winter and knew I was getting ready to move. When I did move that was the last thing I moved since I knew I only had so much energy to move on my own. 
I was using a 16' stock trailer ..( 5 x 16") I had 4.5 loads......*.No way* I have a years worth of food. I have added and still dont think I have a years worth. I dont know maybe I do, maybe I dont, but then all of my stores is just regular food and very little ( 4 cans) of dehydrated. I am planing on 6-8. No I know none of them are prepping and dont expect them to bring anything. 
I am not going by caloric intake just a mom and cooking for her family for many years and for others and my gut. Yes I have been told I cook too much now ...but getting better. SO that tells me I have more than I think which is good. I think we need to get away from "caloric" intake or suggested serving. Think about this you will be doing more than your use to ...so you will need more in order for your body to heal overnight. Even if you farm now the added stress from the issue will be a toll on our body. 
OK after the rant, sorry ......I think we all need to look at our own situation and compare it to a "hard" time our family went through and how much more food we consumed and go on that amount as what we will need at least for the first month.


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## StillStanding (Jan 24, 2009)

Dakine said:


> regarding your flour example, have you considered getting a mill and grinding your own flour? One cup of wheat berries is supposed to equal 2 cups of flour if I remember correctly. Wheat berries are able to be stored for... ages??? and if you start actually cooking that way now, you'll be getting a truckload more nutrients out of your bread and baked goods than you do with store bought enriched flour which has basically nothing left in order for it to be stored long term.


Well, again, it was meant to be an example.

That said, I don't mill flour for several reasons. I bake a lot of bread ordinarily, and mostly use white flour for that. I've run experiments with 100% whole wheat and don't want to do that. So I can store quite a lot of flour and bake through it before it goes bad. Flour mills introduce a single point of failure to the food preparation process and are, well, a hassle.



> For a family as big as yours, you'd want to prepare a lot of stuff in quarts I would imagine. For me, pint size servings are plenty, and really even that is too much sometimes, like if it's meatloaf, but a pint of home made chili or beef vegetable stew is PERFECT!!! And tastes fantastic too!


Depends on the item. Jams and jellies, I mostly use half pints for flexibility even though we go through them quickly. Fruits, tomatoes, and pickles, I mostly use 1.5 pint widemouth jars because I find that the tapered shape makes them more manageable overall. I use quarts for sauerkraut after it has fermented. I have never canned low-acid vegetables and have moved away from canning meat in favor of freezing in most cases. I use half gallons for juice.


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## StillStanding (Jan 24, 2009)

MsSage said:


> I think we all need to look at our own situation and compare it to a "hard" time our family went through and how much more food we consumed and go on that amount as what we will need at least for the first month.


I agree that those situations where financial or other circumstances have led to extended reliance on stored food are the best gauge.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

So, I know it isn't what you are looking for but you called it a confessional.
First though, flour mills don't put a single point failure in your food system unless you only have one, and no other way to grind or eat the grain (sprout, eat directly).

I don't like to mention it too much in these circles because it can sound like bragging, but we have an indefinite supply of food. 
Our family has been farming the same land for over a hundred years and this particular piece without any chemicals or fertilizer. 
We grow a garden, has been commercial in the past (multi-acre), without machinery. 
We raise bees organically as well and they give us hundreds of pounds of honey every year, along with wax and pollen.
We raise many tons of livestock every year without the need for chemicals or petroleum.
We grow our own grain but are dependent on petroleum to harvest it right now, could thresh by hand for our own use but likely will not come to that.
In terms of "stored" food we ALWAYS have a bin full of grain, they get rotated regularly but we have always keep one full. At a minimum that could give us 1000 bushels but has never been that low, a 1000 bushel bin is not as large as people imagine. So that gives around at least 50000lbs of grain.
We butcher our own animals regularly so at the first sign things are really bad we will be making jerky, we have all the equipment.
We can our own vegetables, meat, and prepared things like soup, stew and chili.
We don't need to buy groceries but we do buy some things like pepper and a few spices that we don't grow.
There are a few things we would miss, like salt, and we are working towards fixing that.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> So, I know it isn't what you are looking for but you called it a confessional.
> First though, flour mills don't put a single point failure in your food system unless you only have one, and no other way to grind or eat the grain (sprout, eat directly).
> 
> I don't like to mention it too much in these circles because it can sound like bragging, but we have an indefinite supply of food.
> ...


I need to find an operation like this thats close enough for me to BO to that is looking to recruit an EMT trained, technical professional who spends his off hours doing combat shooting and IDPA 

rather than looking for hopeful stuff I think I'll get busy on my gardens and also start working on my rabbitry this spring.

Impressive setup! I wish there were more like you, I dont think people are supposed to be bunched up in cities, it's not... normal. We should be growing food and tending critters.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Yeah, we are in a pretty unique circumstance, preparedness wise. 
It hasn't always been easy to keep this place going but it is a way of life.

Everyone can grow some of their food though, it makes a better hobby than golf imho 
There are a ton of ways to do things on a small plot of land and sometimes I think it would be nice to just focus on one spot. 
I have a million projects that seem to never get done.
Obviously there are things we would miss if it got really bad, and we are always worried we might lose the place one day, some of our ancestors got here to escape communism (the Holodomor). Not like we are perfectly set but the food is pretty easy on a farm.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I think I have 3 months stored for 3 people but I cook big meals so it wld seem like more to ppl. I am working on storing staples in the coming weeks and our local Mennonite store sells organic flour, meal, molasses, sugar, spices, etc (just about anything you can eat) so I will be hitting them Saturday. I'm wanting to make my own flavored sugars (lemon, vanilla, orange), so fruits are a must once the season gets going. Btw has anyone stored dehydrated fruits in sugar to flavor it? I was thinking kiwi strawberry, banana for cereals?


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

Sorry to dig up old stuff, this really is an interesting thread. I worry and think of this myself alot. I figure I have 3 to 5 days of fridge/freezer foods. Then enough for about a week in the upstairs cupboards before I even get into my food stock in the pantry.
There I have no clue, I have 6 in the house and rationing I guess we'd get about 2 to 3 months of additional time. I plan on staying put as long as possible. At that time, I hope and think things will be on their way back. (wishful thinking, I know) but at that point,we go to plan B!


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I have enough food for 3 months for my wife and I in one square foot of floor space, six 5 gallon buckets stacked. Flour is not a good indicator, it is pretty bulky. I can get more than 50,000 calories in stuff like, rice, beans, sugar in a five gallon bucket. Lard you can get double that.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

You can store food under beds and in the bottom of closets. You can also cache food. It doesn't all have to be in the kitchen. I agree that a year's worth of food takes up a bunch of room, but if you spread it out it doesn't seem as bad.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

We go by how many suppers we have planned + how many cans of soup + 180 boxes of Mac & Cheese + how much we have for cereal and oatmeal.

We might be a little light on our lunch provisions. We might have to eat more beans and rice at lunch time too.

Factoring all that in, I still say we still have a good 11 months worth of food.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

kejmack said:


> You can store food under beds and in the bottom of closets. You can also cache food. It doesn't all have to be in the kitchen. I agree that a year's worth of food takes up a bunch of room, but if you spread it out it doesn't seem as bad.


Ditto, 30-5 gallon buckets fit nicely under a queen sized bed! The bedframe has to go but the buckets will make a good enough one by themselves. The buckets can be replaced under the bed when they are emptied/refilled.

The possibilities for storage space are limited only by your imagination.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

The bulk of our stored food is mostly made up of basics like rice, beans, grains, honey (and other sugars), salt (and other seasonings), dairy products, etc., but we will supplement with our garden, orchard, chickens, rabbits, and just about any other critter that happens by. We do have some "luxury" storage like cocoa, carob powder, powdered drink mixes, etc. While not needed for survival, the luxury items break the monotony of beans/rice, bread. 

We have a Country Living grain mill, as well as a Victorio mill for backup, but we can also sprout wheat for a better diet. Also, we have some of the Mountain House, and similar, dehydrated meals as well as cases of MRE's for when we are short of time or energy.

As it sits now we could easily get by for more than a year, or more if we reduced our calories and/or were able to increase the supplements. We have a 6x12 walk-in pantry, as well as a small bedroom converted to storage.

We have also enough bar soap, liquid soap, laundry soap, and other cleaning supplies to last for two years. The same goes for most disposable kitchen and bath products. Where we are lacking the most (In my opinion) is toilet paper. We have room for just over a 6 months supply, but if it were up to me, it would be a 60 year supply. ;?) We are in the process of adding a 14x28 garage, that will have overhead storage. Perhaps I can devote at least one area for a years TP supply.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

k0xxx said:


> Where we are lacking the most (In my opinion) is toilet paper. We have room for just over a 6 months supply, but if it were up to me, it would be a 60 year supply. ;?)


 I consider toilet paper to be an essential! LOL It is good for morale, too!


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

k0xxx said:


> The bulk of our stored food is mostly made up of basics like rice, beans, grains, honey (and other sugars), salt (and other seasonings), dairy products, etc., but we will supplement with our garden, orchard, chickens, rabbits, and just about any other critter that happens by. We do have some "luxury" storage like cocoa, carob powder, powdered drink mixes, etc. While not needed for survival, the luxury items break the monotony of beans/rice, bread.
> 
> We have a Country Living grain mill, as well as a Victorio mill for backup, but we can also sprout wheat for a better diet. Also, we have some of the Mountain House, and similar, dehydrated meals as well as cases of MRE's for when we are short of time or energy.
> 
> ...


My concern, and why I'm trying to under-estimate my preps is that during some kind of significant event I'll be needing to drastically increase my calories consumed, because I'll be drastically increasing my calories burned.

I realize for a lot of people this is upside down, but for me, working in a technical field, I dont really have to move around that much all day long, I have to make time to go for walks, to get some breaks and exercise, otherwise it's all mental. If something happens and all of a sudden I have to start working on growing food to survive, that's significantly increasing the calories I normally burn. if I decrease my normal caloric intake at the same time, my body is not going to like it.

I'm trying to get as much of my daily life into harmony with self-sustaining resources now as possible, but I've got a lot of big projects going on, including moving and buying a new place and that puts everything out of whack


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

It's always better to underestimate your preps than to overestimate. Our stores are based on six adults. Our two grown children plan to bug out to here, but we have included two extra adults in the case that they each bring someone with them.

We also have a certain amount of preps set aside specifically for charity, as well as for additional family members. None of these preps are included in my "guestimates" of how long our supplies will last. A good portion of our extended family is already preparing, but should some that are not show up on our doorstep, _most_ would not be turned away providing they are willing to pitch in and work. The charity food would be given anonymously through our church community pantry, as I believe that helping the community will be important.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Most of my preps are #10 FD cans. Lots of grains, cereals, fruits, vegetables, some readymade meals, drink mixes and a few treats like a can of FD maple syrup crystals. I figure it will be a nice treat instead of molasses or sugar on the pancakes or multi grain cereal ho cakes. Also several ‘gravy’ type cans to flavor things like beans and rice. I figure each can averages 10 servings, 4 cans a week, so 40 servings a week. Things like pancakes and others have a lot more than 10 servings, something like strawberries might disappear in a day! The milk and butter will last a lot longer than 10 servings, the drink mixes also. Add to that several storage boxes of vacuum sealed beans and rice, a few of canned goods, what is in the regular pantry and kitchen and the possibility of a good garden harvest. A few 25# sacks of sea salt and sugar, just in case too.

Water, I have a good well, three 55 gal barrels, two 30 gal barrels and three 20 gal. Only one 55 is full at the moment. Plan was to use the generator to fill the remaining ones if needed. I keep… 20 or 30 2-liter bottles filled at all times. 6 next to the shower in case we lose water while I am all soaped up (hey, it happened!). Also 6 Berkey charcoal filters and 2 ceramic ones with two buckets drilled out and ready for them. 

Sundries I am good to go for longer than I care to think about. I could hold out a long, long time on bathroom stuff, kitchen stuff and laundry stuff. Only thing I am lacking on is sweet smelling stuff like after shave. I do keep a bottle because I work in a cube farm and need to do like the locals do to fit in. :-}) Extra clothing, bed rolls and the like fill two closets.

I have 4 stacks of pint jars, 10 high each (might be 8, memory loss moment ya know). The AA pressure cooker is the next big ticket item I am saving for. 

Yes, all this takes a LOT of storage space. I have 4 metal shelving units in the living room, 8 more in the storage bedroom plus stacks of boxes in there too. But! It sure gives me peace of mind to go in there and see a shelving unit filled with 12 packs of TP, or stacks of boxes filled with food that will be good for as long as I am alive and probably have to leave in my will to someone.

My only weakness is water for the garden. I could use all the 55 gallon barrels under downspouts but need to add more or come up with a different storage solution for it. I know I could not get enough power to the pump using solar, and gas for the generator isn’t going to last long. I am prepared for no electric but if it is out for more than a month in the heat of summer, I am sunk. Hauling garden water from the creek or lake would be a journey. I could filter and haul enough for the pup and I though.


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