# Privatize Water?



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

http://action.storyofstuff.org/sign/nestle_water_privatization_push



> Nestlé's water privatization push
> 
> Across the globe, Nestlé is pushing to privatize and control public water resources.
> 
> ...


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

There are many ways to look at most things. 
This article is a hit piece on Nestlé. Maybe they deserve it and maybe they don't. At least the water they use is used to sustain life. 
I look at the countless golf courses (some private, some public owned) who use a huge amount of water that only serves an elite few with an afternoon of relaxation. 
Water is wasted in so many ways that benefit no one or very few.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

his is one of the worst laws that they ever created.

This gives a few people control over all of us. Whole towns have been closed down under privatezation of water. 

Most of our natural springs have been stolen and sold overseas. Not only have they stolen our water but they have caused the death and suffering of third world's water too by pushing them out into deserts to feed and water MCDonalds and others cattle.. Bush Jr the grinner bought 100s of 1000s of acre's in Paraquay over one of the worlds largest aquifers. Ted Turner also owns land over our largest aquifer. 

America has one of the worlds if not the worlds largest concentration of natural springs where Nestle and cocaCola are selling it in bottles and rumor has it that 70% goes to other nations.


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I remember drinking out of the hose when I was a kid and I was thirsty.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Coca-Cola in India accused of leaving farms parched and land poisoned 
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2003/jul/25/water.india
Just look around your area and you will see water abuse and wasted ,humans are the worse enemy nature has.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> This is one of the worst laws that they ever created.
> 
> This gives a few people control over all of us. Whole towns have been closed down under privatezation of water.
> 
> ...


Around 30 years ago, South Dakota began putting in what is called Rural Water. One of my brothers worked on installation for a few years in the county where he lived. Farms and ranches were hooked up as well as all communities. Water is accessed at the Missouri River, water districts were created, and much of rural South Dakota gets it's water this way. http://www.sdarws.com/assets/sdarws-system-map.pdf

Someone at the tap could turn off the water for all of the state.

My guess is that when rural water was being developed and installed, there were detailed notes about what wells everyone had. My guess is that this is true all across America. The information has been gathered and could be consolidated to control the masses. (Excuse me, I have to adjust my tinfoil hat )

George W and Ted Turner are old farts now. That doesn't mean that their families can't take over control of water rights. Ted Turner is one the largest land owners in America. He bought the ranch where Dances with Wolves was filmed. It is a very large acreage, West River (west of the Missouri), South Dakota. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner


> Through Turner Enterprises, he owns 15 ranches in Kansas, Montana, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and South Dakota.[41][42] Totaling 1,910,585 acres (7,731.86 km2), his US land-holdings make Turner one of the largest individual landowners in North America (by acreage).[42]


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If I had the money I would buy millions of acres too. And selfish me would expect the water rights for the land I owned.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

hiwall said:


> If I had the money I would buy millions of acres too. And selfish me would expect the water rights for the land I owned.


 That's all fine and good except by mining your water fro profit you'd be stealing the water from those up and down stream from you.

And once you have dried up their wells and sold off the most important resource on earth to those who can afford it your family will also be without water. Once a aquifer starts to lose its volume it also loses its ability to purify itself and can never regenerate once a long drought hits. Runoff toxins will be more PPM in a smaller volume of water. Poison wells and sick people so you can live a little better fro a little while.

Many cities in this nation and all over the world can testify to this fact.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36161580

Nestle: Bottling water in drought-hit California

Nestle extracted 36 million gallons of water from a national forest in California last year to sell as bottled water, even as Californians were ordered to cut their water use because of a historic drought in the state.

And the permit that Nestle uses to operate its water pipeline in the San Bernardino national forest costs just $524 (£357) a year.

That rankles with some residents and environmental groups, who want the US government to cut off Nestle's access to the water until an environmental study can be conducted.

Nestle has the legal rights to the water, and Arrowhead water has been bottled from springs here since 1894.

Yet the firm's permit to operate this seven-mile pipeline in the mountains expired in 1988, though since it pays its yearly $524, the licence is still considered valid by the US Forest Service and by Nestle.

However, activists consider the permit expired and the US government is now reviewing Nestle's licence. A public comment period has just closed and this month a federal hearing will consider the legality of the permit.

"The forest service should protect the forest," says Amanda Frye, a resident who's becoming known as a water rights activist. "A healthy forest produces a healthy population of people. We need the forest."

But bottled water is also healthy compared to sweet, fizzy soft drinks. And Americans are drinking more bottled water than ever - indeed water is on track to outsell other non-alcoholic soft drinks by 2017, says the Beverage Marketing Corporation.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

readytogo said:


> Coca-Cola in India accused of leaving farms parched and land poisoned
> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2003/jul/25/water.india
> Just look around your area and you will see water abuse and wasted ,humans are the worse enemy nature has.


 Ironically while this thread was being started I was watching a man in Africa who dealt with this kind of problem. Only in his case it was the cutting down of trees and forest that did it.

The poor also have to fight the rich to keep suicide seeds from Monsanto and others out of their fields.

Between over population of people who listen to Jesuits and Muslims and keep having babies and the corporations they don't stand much of a chance.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

"The Man Who Stopped The Desert"

This is the story about how easy water can be gone.

This man took 3decades to bring back life to this area. Amazing how he did it while all his people called him crazy.

This story is so inspirational everyone should watch it. And most of all the way this man di this is amazing in itself. Who'd thought termites were soil builders?


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

BillS said:


> http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36161580
> 
> Nestle: Bottling water in drought-hit California
> 
> ...


 My friend like me takes water with her EVERYWHERE she goes. She uses bottled water which is not only unhealthy plastic but also not good fro resource or environment.

She has everything so it is hard to send her gifts so I sent here and her husband two stainless steel thermal water bottles and a counter top stainless steel container. She said they use the bottles for water now all the time.

We use them too and they keep the water cold all day long.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

AmishHeart said:


> I remember drinking out of the hose when I was a kid and I was thirsty.


 So did we and the old reliable 'dipper' from the well bucket.  Kids today don't know how good they have it. My grandkids would flip a lid if told to go to well draw up water then bring it 200 ft back to the house.

Bathe or wash their clothes in the creek. Use the outhouse in 0 degree weather. My kids got a little taste of roughing it but their kids have never had the priviledge of using the privey.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

If corporations controlled the water I feel that the world will turn into the the latest Mad Max movie. Only they few will control everyone else.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Flight1630 said:


> If corporations controlled the water I feel that the world will turn into the the latest Mad Max movie. Only they few will control everyone else.


Just a few corporations have controlled oil for a long time. Other than a few wars it is not so bad.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

hiwall said:


> Just a few corporations have controlled oil for a long time. Other than a few wars it is not so bad.


 Not being mean but the reason its not so bad for us is that it is not millions of our families dying in the wars, YET. They control the price and they can cut it off because they have no real supervision.

I'm old but what kind of future are we leaving for our young?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

This story came around a while ago. As I recall… And no, I did not go looking for sites or articles to back this up… The issue was not their use of the water but how much of it they were using. As pointed out above, folks were required to restrict water use, due to a drought, but they were increasing their use of it. In that instance anyway.

Their wanting to ‘privatize’ water rights as so that they could freely use what was at their disposal without question. Like the land barons in the old west stories. They would buy up lots of land, with water, and block access to others downstream from using that water. Or use more than their share so no one else had any. 

I believe that access to potable water is going to be a major issue in with the next generation. Heck, it is already causing alarm. We will have lots of water, but like salt water, it will not be potable. Mostly due to ground contamination. In my short lifetime, not short, but in the grand scheme of things it is… I have seen water flow freely to where I could drink from just about any water source I came across. To having to be cautious of even well water now. That is a very scary thing to happen in less than one human lifetime. And I am one of those that firmly believe that free access to water is a basic human right, not a privilege to be doled out by any government or company.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

weedygarden said:


> My guess is that when rural water was being developed and installed, there were detailed notes about what wells everyone had. My guess is that this is true all across America. The information has been gathered and could be consolidated to control the masses. (Excuse me, I have to adjust my tinfoil hat )


In Texas, when a water well is drilled, the company is required to report the location & depth to the state. I feel sure that's the case in most other states. They may know about the well we just had drilled, but they don't know about the well that was already here. . The new one is just our backup.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Woody said:


> I believe that access to potable water is going to be a major issue in with the next generation. Heck, it is already causing alarm. We will have lots of water, but like salt water, it will not be potable. Mostly due to ground contamination. In my short lifetime, not short, but in the grand scheme of things it is&#8230; I have seen water flow freely to where I could drink from just about any water source I came across. To having to be cautious of even well water now. That is a very scary thing to happen in less than one human lifetime. And I am one of those that firmly believe that free access to water is a basic human right, not a privilege to be doled out by any government or company.


I totally agree! In Dallas, water bills can be $250 a month. Here in a rural community away from the urban sprawl, $60 a month. Future wars will be fought over water rights.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Like almost every issue this one is complicated.
People and cities using surface water I am not too concerned about. Anyone can see the results of this. I worry more about water pulled from deep underground aquifers. Once pulled out from deep underground it might take a century or more to refill. And when you pull all that water you leave an empty void down there. Is that why Oklahoma is now the earthquake capital of the world?
Many people and groups talk about water conservation but what conservation has really been done? We still have millions of swimming pools and golf courses. What about all the farmers irrigating semi-arid land to grow crops that are then used for ethanol production? The list of actual wasteful water uses or questionable water uses is a very long one. Should we be concerned? We most certainly should!! But here again 90% of the blame goes to state and federal legislators. These corrupt elected officials take money from countless special interest entities to buy their vote on bills at both state and federal levels. This will not change and our wasteful ways with our precious water will not change until it is likely too late.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

tsrwivey said:


> In Texas, when a water well is drilled, the company is required to report the location & depth to the state. I feel sure that's the case in most other states. They may know about the well we just had drilled, but they don't know about the well that was already here. . The new one is just our backup.


I went looking for information on the well when we were looking at our new place. The county gave me the state water district information so they could look it up. The add was wrong, there is NO well on our property.... we have to use the community well. I have the paper that says so. :sssh:


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

We have a well on our property in Kansas and the water has tested fine. A few times we've been contacted asking if we want to hook up to the township waterline. (no.)


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

hiwall said:


> Like almost every issue this one is complicated.
> People and cities using surface water I am not too concerned about. Anyone can see the results of this. I worry more about water pulled from deep underground aquifers. Once pulled out from deep underground it might take a century or more to refill. And when you pull all that water you leave an empty void down there. Is that why Oklahoma is now the earthquake capital of the world?
> Many people and groups talk about water conservation but what conservation has really been done? We still have millions of swimming pools and golf courses. What about all the farmers irrigating semi-arid land to grow crops that are then used for ethanol production? The list of actual wasteful water uses or questionable water uses is a very long one. Should we be concerned? We most certainly should!! But here again 90% of the blame goes to state and federal legislators. These corrupt elected officials take money from countless special interest entities to buy their vote on bills at both state and federal levels. This will not change and our wasteful ways with our precious water will not change until it is likely too late.


 Very good point about ethanol. It takes as much oil to produce the fuel from manufactured ethanol as it does to just use the oil or coal.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

terri9630 said:


> I went looking for information on the well when we were looking at our new place. The county gave me the state water district information so they could look it up. The add was wrong, there is NO well on our property.... we have to use the community well. I have the paper that says so. :sssh:


 They are already talking about putting meters on private wells. In some cases that may be a good idea. My neighbor was watering the heck out of her lawn when Florida was on fire in worst draught in 100 yr.s and wells were drying up one after another.

But for those of us that never waste water it is a very bad idea. Also we consume far too much animal and they not only mess up wells but also run off is full of toxins. They would feed stock anything that would save a dollar.

We in North Florida have been in water fights with S. Florida for decades over our water. And every year we add millions more people to drain even more.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

I read the articles and agree that water use and population growth is going to be a major problem in the future. What would you pay for water? I agree the the aquifers are being drained and it will take centuries if ever to refill. 

I am currently working on a house design I call my "Tin Hat Home" as it is going to be designed to be self contained --- food (aquaponics), solar roof with propane generator backup, water catchment system, roof fire sprinkler protection, 4' thick concrete exterior walls and a 100 yard underground "what I call the mushroom farm (note the distance ) I plan to store enough rain water to last a family of 5 with normal daily use for several years. Water calculation based on 10 gallons per day / per person. 

I plan to present the rough floor plan for you all to review and hope you add comments on how to make it better. Sorry to high jack thread, just took the opportunity to warn everybody about the "Tin Hat House" project.


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## bbqjoe (Feb 10, 2017)

In AZ, it's illegal to refuse someone water.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

bbqjoe said:


> In AZ, it's illegal to refuse someone water.


Is it illegal to refuse to give someone water to drink? If that is true, you can really understand why that would be illegal in a place like Arizona.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

tmttactical said:


> I read the articles and agree that water use and population growth is going to be a major problem in the future. What would you pay for water? I agree the the aquifers are being drained and it will take centuries if ever to refill.
> 
> I am currently working on a house design I call my "Tin Hat Home" as it is going to be designed to be self contained --- food (aquaponics), solar roof with propane generator backup, water catchment system, roof fire sprinkler protection, 4' thick concrete exterior walls and a 100 yard underground "what I call the mushroom farm (note the distance ) I plan to store enough rain water to last a family of 5 with normal daily use for several years. Water calculation based on 10 gallons per day / per person.
> 
> I plan to present the rough floor plan for you all to review and hope you add comments on how to make it better. Sorry to high jack thread, just took the opportunity to warn everybody about the "Tin Hat House" project.


I am curious about this, and while this thread is about water, I have thought about a water catchment system where the water is stored underground.

4' walls would be very sturdy. There is a hotel in Old San Juan, Puerto Rico, that was once a convent and now called El Convento. It is across the street from a cathedral in Old Town. The walls are 6 feet thick in that building. I heard it was built to keep nuns safe in hurricanes.

I have also thought about having tunnels. Tunnels have been used in many places throughout the world and history. I have thought that prepping communities could have tunnels that can connect to surveillance points and other buildings or locations. Each exit point could have heavy duty blast doors. Having corners or turns is important to deal with radiation.

I attended 2 different Catholic colleges. Both had wide and deep tunnels that went from building to building. We could go from our dorm to the cafeteria if it was snowing or raining. The tunnels were also listed as being Civil Defense locations and had supplies in cardboard barrels.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

bbqjoe said:


> In AZ, it's illegal to refuse someone water.


I was in AZ once in winter last year before spring, so why is it illegal to refuse water?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

You can seldom be stopped for five minutes here in AZ without someone asking if you need help.


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## azrancher (Jan 30, 2014)

hiwall said:


> You can seldom be stopped for five minutes here in AZ without someone asking if you need help.


We're just a bunch of friendly folks here... the illegal that wanted water didn't want to drink out of the hose, it comes from the same well as my drinking water in the house... just not out of a hose.

*Rancher*


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

Caribou said:


> Because it is arid in much of the State for much of the year and people die without water. Likewise it is illegal in Alaska not to stop and help a stranded motorist. Not a problem inside a community but in the remote areas not helping can get someone a little bit dead.


I had no idea.


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

Near as I can tell, water is already free. You can get a bucket of it out of any river, lake, stream, creek, or ocean with little concern of anybody saying anything .. most buildings open to the public have free water fountains .. parks 

I have heard of there being laws against rain barrels, but that seems exceedingly rare. 

If there is a drought they tend to fine you for "using to much" to reduce usage .. they don't actually charge you more or use any of the normal price control mechanisms .. it wouldn't make sense and it wouldn't have any effect on people who, in my case normally pay $1.33 for 1000 gallons at my tap but I will still buy the occasional pint or quart bottle of water at the quick rip for about a dollar .. and not fret over the cost.

No.. this whole issue is moot.. call it what you will, water is already free.. and if you need an actual law saying water is free .. it shouldn't be too much trouble to get such a law if you wanted it .. we could pass a Constitutional amendment saying water is free if you want, if it would make you feel better.. but the delivery fees would kill you.. the cost you pay is for the convenience of having it at the tap. 

I recently had a plumbing problem that ended up being a minor remodeling of a 3/4 bathroom .. even if water was free .. and like I said it is $1.33 for a thousand gallons , close enough to free.. I paid, well insurance paid, $8000 because I like showers.

Say they stuck a meter on your well at $1.33 per 1000... would you really notice it given the cost of drilling the well and laying the pipes to get it to where you want the water to be? 
Say water was free or $1.33 per thousand gallons .. at their tap .. you have to come and pick it up , they don't deliver. Lets say straight from the lake water is free, and processed really actually honestly safe to drink filtered treated water is a dollar thirty three for a thousand gallons .. and all you got to do is get a hitch on your car and a 500 gallon ( 2 ton ) buffalo ( actually 269.01278 gallons to a ton of water) or drop a 500 gallon tank on the bed on your pick up and drive the 15 minutes ( they guarantee no wait in line longer than an hour.. let's say a half hour) , and the 15 minutes back and have some place safe to store it when you get home and some way to get it to the shower with enough pressure to satisfy .. Let's say they raise the price of filling the Buffalo from free to 67 cents.. you going to start shopping around for a better deal? , you always got you water there because it was closest and the water was clean , not because the water was free .

just getting the trailer hitch and welding it on cost more than 6 months of water, not to mention time and gas . 

Some folks in California get their water from the Colorado River a couple few hundreds of miles away.. lets say it was free .. all you want.. you just had to go get it... would that be a better deal for you? 

You got a "Right to Water" and yeah it should be free... I can buy that.. but having it purified and tested and insured to be safe and delivered to your shower or sink or garden.. it's fair to charge for that, folks got a right to pay for their work and the cost of the pipes or trucks delivering it.

And there is no shortage of water.. we have oceans of it .. costs about 4 times as much to process as your average crappy creek water.

A lot of the cost is growing food where there isn't any/ much/ enough water and getting the water to the crops/ herds ... but we have to do it that way because we need to build our houses and shopping centers on fertile flat land near good water.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Caribou said:


> Like CA, for example, where a couple of droughts ago they asked for people to conserve water. Their request was so effective that they hiked rates. I didn't hear anything about the rates dropping when the drought ended.


And all the while, the Nestle Plant kept bottling as much water as they wanted to, with absolutely no restrictions.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Caribou said:


> And they released fresh water into the ocean while letting orchards die.


We are living in strange times, aren't we?


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> We are living in strange times, aren't we?


 Very strange times indeed. It has been brewing for mellinium's spl, 1000s of years.

Since Nimrod days and his emblem is a testament all over the world in the shape of male organ. A fascinating story once you stick your head into the rabbit hole.

That pointed obelisk in front of the White House and The Vatican represents the lost part of Nimrod. And his wife Isis is considered by some to be Lady liberty. :dunno:


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

Caribou said:


> Ammo, I have no clew where you are coming from.
> 
> Mostly I'm concerned about government intervention. Places like OR where it is illegal to collect rain water or build a stock pond. Then there is the MD where there is a rain tax. Any driveway, sidewalk, patio, or roofed area that impedes direct contact by the rain is taxed.
> 
> Nobody cares about a nominal fee for distribution. We do care about getting ripped off. Like CA, for example, where a couple of droughts ago they asked for people to conserve water. Their request was so effective that they hiked rates. I didn't hear anything about the rates dropping when the drought ended.


Doesn't take a clue

you can go down to the beach, pump up as much water as you want for free, load it into trucks .. take to wherever you want it .. clean it up, desalinate it do whatever you want to it until it is properly fit for your purpose, and put the stuff you don't want ( there is a market for sea salt) back in the ocean.

the water is free .. the processing and transportation is expensive . Water is like any natural resource.. it comes with the land, or the rights to it, It may be legally separate set of rights . Rain the falls may be treated the same way.. either the public or a private entity may have the rights to it depending on local law... and that has to be respected, just like you property rights are respected ..

The problem is you think distribution and the logistics are a nominal thing . they aren't.. they are expensive. Building those public reservoirs.. damming up rivers to make lakes are expensive .. and if it is done with public money then it is a public resource. Just like grazing cattle on public land .. there are fees... the fees are almost always way cheaper than trying to get the private resources to do the same thing.

Not to worry .. they are doing away with or castrating the EPA and environmental protections... should make it easier for special interests to get and do what they want with public resources soon. Dump what they want where they want


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

AmmoSgt said:


> Doesn't take a clue
> 
> you can go down to the beach, pump up as much water as you want for free, load it into trucks .. take to wherever you want it .. clean it up, desalinate it do whatever you want to it until it is properly fit for your purpose, and put the stuff you don't want ( there is a market for sea salt) back in the ocean.
> 
> ...


Needed 10 characters outside the quote.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Meerkat said:


> Very good point about ethanol. It takes as much oil to produce the fuel from manufactured ethanol as it does to just use the oil or coal.


I've also heard that it takes 3 gallons of water for every gallon of ethanol, I would think it actually takes more than that, corn is water intensive. As for fuel, fuel to run tractors for planting, to run water pumps for irrigation, by products of fuel for fertilizer and insecticide, fuel for combines, for trucks to haul corn from the field, for trucking the corn to the distillery, the energy used (fuel of some kind) for distilling corn into alcohol and fuel used to truck the alcohol to fuel companies to mix with gasoline. Then we have this ethanol added fuel shoved down our throats, at least I feel that way when our 1998 Windstar gets up to 7 mpg more with NON-ethanol fuel and doesn't have the Serve Engine Soon light come on all the time.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

So if a meter is put on my well, and the water is "free". What exactly am I paying for? Distribution? My money put in my well, my pump, my plumbing, and pays my electric bill. Maintenance? Nope. I put in a new well pump when it was needed. Purification? Once again it's my money that pays for my filters. So what exactly is someone else doing to earn my money?


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

terri9630 said:


> So if a meter is put on my well, and the water is "free". What exactly am I paying for? Distribution? My money put in my well, my pump, my plumbing, and pays my electric bill. Maintenance? Nope. I put in a new well pump when it was needed. Purification? Once again it's my money that pays for my filters. So what exactly is someone else doing to earn my money?


They are not doing anything for you, they are simply claiming the city/county/state owns the water and you need to pay for using it. Just another money and power grab. they control your water, they control you. That is why my "Tin Hat House" will be water catchment system, can't meter the roof water usage.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

tmttactical said:


> They are not doing anything for you, they are simply claiming the city/county/state owns the water and you need to pay for using it. Just another money and power grab. they control your water, they control you. That is why my "Tin Hat House" will be water catchment system, can't meter the roof water usage.


When I got the water rights to my spring I asked if I could get rights to a seasonal stream that ran no more than 15 feet to the West of my spring and they said no because Oregon owns all waters and that stream had to run unimpeded into Cow Creek. I wanted the rights to it so that I could run a Pelton Wheel generator and the water would have reached the creek anyway. By metering wells and springs the state wants us to know that they own everything, I tell everyone that God owns the water and He gives it to us, including the state.


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

Woody said:


> Needed 10 characters outside the quote.


Just as you are probably right that there are some places on the coast where they might frown on taking water from the ocean , there are undoubtbly some places where you can .. and I can't imagine any prohibitions from putting seas salt from desalinization back in the ocean. https://www.spectrawatermakers.com/us/us/11133-newport-1000-mkii

On land you have laws mineral rights water rights ect... you can buy desalinization gear for boats to make fresh water at sea. No reason you can't set it up in your garage if you wanted ... and my point is the water can be free.. it's the transportation and processing that costs ..

Yeah funny thing about public reservoirs .. they belong to somebody, city, county, state, that is why I specified the ocean.

Water in the stream comes from someplace and goes someplace.. that is happens to cross your property doesn't grant you exclusive use of it or ownership .

But you seem to not want to address my point... the cost to bring the water to you and make sure it is safe to drink .. even if there was no shortage of water, that would still be a fair charge.

And depending on local laws, folks drill wells all the time, sometimes the water is theirs because the land is , sometimes it's a separate deal ... but even when it is theirs, freely theirs .. they still have to pay for the well and sometimes for a way to treat it to make it potable.

It's an unusual conservative argument, and a highly amusing one at that.. because it is a necessity therefore it is a right to have water.. and because you don't want to pay for it, it should be free.. and we will pretend it all happens automagiclly and no infrastructure or cost to the tax payer is involved, so you are getting ripped off.

I don't think your arguments will get you very far.. most folks know about the pipes and pumps and processing.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> Don't try it in OR it is illegal. Shouldn't be but it is.


One of the many reasons I don't live in Oregon any more. In Oregon - don't harvest the forest, let it burn in forest fires, Free everything except to the tax payer. If they could find a way to monitor air, they would claim it too. I really do love living in Arizona.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

AmmoSgt said:


> ... Yeah funny thing about public reservoirs .. they belong to somebody, city, county, state, that is why I specified the ocean.
> 
> Water in the stream comes from someplace and goes someplace.. that is happens to cross your property doesn't grant you exclusive use of it or ownership .
> 
> ...


I was just addressing some of your points.

The "Free" water thing I understand, it costs to maintain/transport it. The point was that a company should not own rights to aquifers and then sell that water or dictate how it is to be used. A large aquifer can be spread out for miles, for one entity to use or drain it is not right.

For the 'right to water', it is just what it sounds like. It is a basic human right to have access to local, available water. If I have a well, I should expect to have that water available to me, for as long as the well runs. If there is a local source of clean water, the local inhabitants should have a basic RIGHT to that water. Someone should not come in and claim they own it, and then sell it to them. I am not talking about a private well or such. I am talking about the rivers, streams or large bodies of water. Just as you mentioned access to the ocean water. If they can go, get the water and use it, at their expense, then they have a basic human right to do so. I am not talking about giving away water that has been mass treated and then transported (or piped) to their homes. It is understood, or so I thought, that someone made an investment and expects a return or to break even on that investment.

Let's try it another way also. If I want to put in a well, at my expense, someone should not be able to tell me that someone else owns that water and I will have to pay them for the use of it.

Is that better?


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

Woody said:


> I was just addressing some of your points.
> 
> The "Free" water thing I understand, it costs to maintain/transport it. The point was that a company should not own rights to aquifers and then sell that water or dictate how it is to be used. A large aquifer can be spread out for miles, for one entity to use or drain it is not right.
> 
> ...


If people have a right to water and you have a well, and people outside your fence need water.. and they have a right to have water, then you are obligated to give them some.

Is that what you are saying?

Or is it if you don't have a well you have a right to water, but if you do have a well nobody has rights to your water?

you have me confused explain it to me again ... start with "you have a well".. now explain to me who does and doesn't have rights to it... go slow talk to me like I am an easily confused child.

I can't even see the difference between company A that has water rights/ acess building pipelines and selling water to people at their homes and farms and company B that has water rights / access and bottles water and sells it to people at gas stations and grocery stores ... people that have legal access .. create a path of distribution and distribute water for a fee that covers the cost of business and a profit. As opposed to people who have their own private wells that want to only use the water for their own private purposes ... ???

now I am confused again


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Sorry, you are on your own. I tried.


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## bbqjoe (Feb 10, 2017)

Just for the halibut...

When I purchased the property my restaurant sat on, there was a well.
It was there for many years. The area is zoned C-4. Commercial/residential.

No one applied for a permit when the well was dug.

I had to go through all kinds of BS to register it with the all the AZ entities.
AZ Dept of water resources, and some other one I can't recall at the moment.

Anyways, they made me do a number of things above the well, and of course this was considered a PUBLIC water source, meaning the water was going to be used by the general public.
I had to have it monitored every month for bacteria and other contaminants. 
The original test was over $3,000.

They also made me put a meter on it.

Where the R was located is basically in the middle of nowhere. The town is so small, it's not even incorporated. You're lucky to find it on a map.

We had the place almost ten years. Fortunately, no one ever came around to read the meter and hand me a bill. We used the better part of 2 million gallons in that time.

But you know, someday, someone who owns that property will.

Our area used to be lots and lots of farms.
There is a mine about 70 miles away from us. They have no water.

They bought out all the farmers solely for their water and grazing rights.

There are bajillions of gallons of water pumped from the area every day 24/7, and sent through giant plastic pipes through the desert to the mine.


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## AmmoSgt (Apr 13, 2014)

Yeah , I know, I am used to it..

It's just seems to me , that the people yelling they have a right to water the loudest want to draw from the common aquifer/ watershed/ pond with no strings or fees attached , but recognize the danger of that kind of policy if others are drawing from the same aquifer or watershed and they want the other people regulated or charged fees to cover the value of the water they draw .. just not themselves.

Rights is a very big word.. mostly because nobody can have a "Right" unless everybody has the exact same right. 

If you want total autonomy to draw water from your land or land you have legal access to.. then everybody including international multinationals who want to ship the water that is their right to draw on, because they own the land above it, or the land it flows across, to India or wherever they want in any quantity they want. 

I think nominal fees, nominal licensing, even on your own land, so long as it also applies to everybody, to be sure you have the water you need today, and tomorrow ...and that somebody up stream can't dam up the water on their land and cut you off, or somebody can't pump your aquifer dry under you is basically a good idea.

Does that mean I would support just any regulatory scheme .. NO it definitely doesn't .. but in principle I think public access to water should not be left to the good intentions to whoever happens to be closest to the supply and for those that can conveniently exploit and make a buck off it, or keep it all for their own purposes , public be dammed.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

I grew up in mining country. Between our community and the one to the west there was a tiny creek, My father explained that in his youth there had been a lake there and you could rent boats to fish. When jobs are at stake our state - - -. The state allowed my hometown to be cut off from the north and south so you can get out only on an east west road. In my youth the mining companies turned a blind eye to trespass on unused property. USS is now the operating agent and trespass is now strictly enforced. They went so far as to hire a helicopter to overfly their vast holdings and then called in the county sheriff. (They did open something like 400,000 acres however, the access is twenty miles away. How many kids will be able to access that?) My point is rules/laws change and not with our best interest in mind.
There are those in California that apparently wish to become independent of the USA. If this were an intelligence test maybe it could start with:
#! Where does California get much of its water? 
#2 What river does not lie within the boundaries of California? #3 If California is not part of the United Sates and will get no water from the Colorado, what are the states that would form a line to take the water that California now takes from the Colorado?
#4 Does California produce enough wine to make up for this lack of water (SHhhh, don’t tell them the grapes will die without water.)
#5 California divides the water from the Colorado 20% to cities and 80% to agriculture. becoming independent will this % change? (Zero percent of —-?)
#6 Being sooo far in debt, what will government revenues look like without Army, 
Air Force, Navy, and Marine Corps payrolls and bases?
#7 How much more effective will our government be without Nancy Pelosi and Diane Fienstein?
#8 Not having California’s fine legislators in Congress how much better will Congress represent the “will of the people”? (Having two Senators and forty+ Representatives coming from California one doesn’t wonder why the framers of the Constitution instituted such protections as a bicameral legislature and the Electoral College! 
Being from one of the other 49 states, it will be nice to see the IQ of the Senate and House make a quantum leap forward. (How many states did Mr. Obama say we had? Perhaps one could be added for “The State ofConfusion”?)
Sorry, i couldn't line this up! H


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

headhunter said:


> I grew up in mining country. Between our community and the one to the west there was a tiny creek, My father explained that in his youth there had been a lake there and you could rent boats to fish. When jobs are at stake our state - - -. The state allowed my hometown to be cut off from the north and south so you can get out only on an east west road. In my youth the mining companies turned a blind eye to trespass on unused property. USS is now the operating agent and trespass is now strictly enforced. They went so far as to hire a helicopter to overfly their vast holdings and then called in the county sheriff. (They did open something like 400,000 acres however, the access is twenty miles away. How many kids will be able to access that?) My point is rules/laws change and not with our best interest in mind.
> There are those in California that apparently wish to become independent of the USA. If this were an intelligence test maybe it could start with:
> #! Where does California get much of its water?
> #2 What river does not lie within the boundaries of California? #3 If California is not part of the United Sates and will get no water from the Colorado, what are the states that would form a line to take the water that California now takes from the Colorado?
> ...


#9. In the absence of Californication, would the Democrats EVER win a Presidential election? (California has how many voters? Hillarious' plurality was what?) :rofl:artydance:


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