# Reality Check



## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

I live in a sleepy little town of less than 2000. Today I walk into the grocery store and round the first row of racks to see one lady standing there with bbq charcoal talking to another lady about how she was hoping they would get enough money together to get their electric turned back on because she was tired of cooking like this. My heart sunk and I keep on moving only to see a sign below the instant potatoes saying there was a shortage with their supplier and they apologized for being out of stock. Uhmm...ok, round the corner and look..the rice is really low...keep on moving..the beans are low. In my mind I am wondering if people are stocking up or is this becoming everyones typical dinner. So, I go to check out. Behind me is a couple with probably 5 pkgs of hotdogs and buns to go with them. The man throws down the money and says, thats it hun, that is the gas money and I dont know how we are going to get to work. We are going to have to find someone near work to stay with. It took everything I had to keep it together and not cry. The food banks are begging for donations and they are now finding homeless people living in their cars. All I keep thinking about is the frog slowly cooking in the pot. If I ran across 2 people in the condition they are in today talking publicly about their dire situations can you imagine all those that are in the same shape that aren't talking. Sorry to ramble on but my gut says its not going to be much longer before things start getting nasty.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

That's really sad. You could be right.


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## JackDanielGarrett (Sep 27, 2010)

showmegal, I do believe you are seeing what I think is the way things will go in the future. I thank you for this post. No zombies or guvment take over...just the way things are going.


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

*The ant and the grasshopper*

The signs have been there over the past 15 years or more that something evil this way comes. The majority of folks are unconscious or willfully ignorant and have been more concerned with pseudo-celebrity foolishness and the latest electronic/computer gimcracks and have failed to take appropriate measures.

Yes, a large number of folks are swirling clockwise around the bowl and very close to making the trip to the sewage treatment plant. The useful idiots are just about to the point where the hard-core cadres of brownshirts, (regardless of their political bent), will find little resistance in bringing down what remains of our Founding Father's dream.

It is up to each of us who are awake and aware to do what is necessary to insure the well being and survival of our own. That is our mission. Grasshoppers who have sung and played all summer will perish when winter winds begin to blow. That is their problem, not ours.


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## Frugal_Farmers (Dec 13, 2010)

Showmegal,

I think you have hit the nail right on the head. These are extremely difficult times and we are seeing widespread examples just like you mentioned. People are hurting and the numbers are growing everyday.

I see people buying groceries and gasoline on credit cards. Sooner or later, that bubble is going to burst as well.

Just click on the evening news and you will see more and more people taking to the streets. First it was Wall Street, now people are "occupying" every major city in the US.

Unfortunately, some people will call these people taking to the streets "radical liberals" as well as other choice words. I'm here to tell ya that during these tough times, it does not matter what your political party affiliation is. Ask any recently unemployed American if their boss asked the if they were conservative or liberal. That just doesn't happen.

My point here is that the deck chairs have been re-arranged on the Titanic and each of us could be in the same boat some day in the future. In times like this, I could give a rat's ass what anyone's political affiliation is becuase we have got to take care of each other whenever possible.

I concur with your thoughts that the next bubble will burst real soon and it will be bigger than any bubble we have seen before.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Frugal_Farmers said:


> Showmegal,
> 
> I think you have hit the nail right on the head. These are extremely difficult times and we are seeing widespread examples just like you mentioned. People are hurting and the numbers are growing everyday.
> 
> ...


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

It is sad and is that way all over.people are hurting and it is getting worse. We are like the frog sitting in the pot of water and it is getting hotter if we as a society don't jump out soon it may be too late. Problem is a larger part of society either do not see it or don't care because they are getting and enjoying the "bread and circus" from the emporer


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

lefty said:


> ...a larger part of society either do not see it or don't care because they are getting and enjoying the "bread and circus" from the emperor


Exactly. Bread and circuses, but when the bread stops coming, they are in for a rude awakening.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

When I joined the Air Force 11 years ago I was doing it to serve and carry on my family tradition of Military service(We have had family in Military service going back to Valley Forge). 

I am glad I am in and able to serve, but now there is the fact that we have a steady paycheck and job security.

People we know in the community that are dead broke with no hope. I have friends with college degrees that are out of work and have moved there wife and kids in with there parents.

I wonder if we will start seeing mass migrations from the small towns with few or no jobs to the bigger cities like we saw durring the great depression. People will go where they think they can find work and food help. People that can not afford to drive to get to work in the city will move to the city.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

showmegal said:


> I live in a sleepy little town of less than 2000. Today I walk into the grocery store and round the first row of racks to see one lady standing there with bbq charcoal talking to another lady about how she was hoping they would get enough money together to get their electric turned back on because she was tired of cooking like this. My heart sunk and I keep on moving only to see a sign below the instant potatoes saying there was a shortage with their supplier and they apologized for being out of stock. Uhmm...ok, round the corner and look..the rice is really low...keep on moving..the beans are low. In my mind I am wondering if people are stocking up or is this becoming everyones typical dinner. So, I go to check out. Behind me is a couple with probably 5 pkgs of hotdogs and buns to go with them. The man throws down the money and says, thats it hun, that is the gas money and I dont know how we are going to get to work. We are going to have to find someone near work to stay with. It took everything I had to keep it together and not cry. The food banks are begging for donations and they are now finding homeless people living in their cars. All I keep thinking about is the frog slowly cooking in the pot. If I ran across 2 people in the condition they are in today talking publicly about their dire situations can you imagine all those that are in the same shape that aren't talking. Sorry to ramble on but my gut says its not going to be much longer before things start getting nasty.


Okay---I'm crying..the last church I attended didn't even have a food bank---I bet the one I attend now doesn't either---but on topic, we discussed one day at the old church how people have needs but don't tell churches and maybe a neighbor in my community is hungry---sooo, my response is go see...simple, huh...just get in the car, stop and ask. I check on two elderly females.
Now in that situation you posted---a $20 would have come out fast---if I was certain the couple were truthful..God has blessed me---oh, don't read that wrong---we have a skidder down and this is week 8.
But dh can haul logs while we figure what to do.
And helping that couple--even not knowing if it's a ploy---is still the right thing to do. You never know who's watching!!! Pass it on???

Thanks for sharing and this couple will be on my prayer list and all those in this situation.

JayJay...Peace. And God bless my lost America.

One last note>>>>> at least they had jobs; but could possibly be experiencing some hardships.


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## Bandurasbox (Aug 21, 2011)

*It's everywhere*

Showmegal,

I live in one of the most affluent metropolitan areas of my state. We have bragged for years that no economic downturn would touch us and it hasn't for more than 70 years. Sadly to say, it has now, which makes me realize that it's everywhere. Our county-wide unemployment rate has been one of the lowest in the nation for decades thanks to NASA, our immense scientific research area, and the military. Not so anymore.

I, too, see what you witnessed and it is a daily wake-up call for me and my family. It gives me the shivers to think that there are so many (part of my family included) who have NO CLUE what is going on around them.

Thanks for your post. It's noteworthy and I have forwarded it to several family members who are on the outs of reality (your username was not included).


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

On this topic, I see many not sacrificing and I wonder how much food is in their pantry?? I'm very rude lately that way.
I needed a table/chairs for my breakfast room---$100 2 places I shopped just for the table--discount at that. I had two black painted chairs I had redone and brought them in from the porch---went to the attic, got an old patio table, put it with the chairs---really cute/button cute/just fits perfectly--and I used part of the $100 I saved for a shelf in the room I have food stored..and now, the rest of the story..while getting TP on sale at Big LOts, I noticed a woman buying a sectional...yes, cc was used...and when I see this, I always wonder, how much food is in that pantry at that house.
I told you, I'm rude lately.:ignore::ignore::ignore:

As bandur says, many of us are one pay week away from this situation you mentioned.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

JayJay said:


> On this topic, I see many not sacrificing and I wonder how much food is in their pantry?? I'm very rude lately that way.
> I needed a table/chairs for my breakfast room---$100 2 places I shopped just for the table--discount at that. I had two black painted chairs I had redone and brought them in from the porch---went to the attic, got an old patio table, put it with the chairs---really cute/button cute/just fits perfectly--and I used part of the $100 I saved for a shelf in the room I have food stored..and now, the rest of the story..while getting TP on sale at Big LOts, I noticed a woman buying a sectional...yes, cc was used...and when I see this, I always wonder, how much food is in that pantry at that house.
> I told you, I'm rude lately.:ignore::ignore::ignore:
> 
> As bandur says, many of us are one pay week away from this situation you mentioned.


Great point there. Sacrifice is a word that most Americans are now unfamiliar with.

My Wife and I are doing O.K. but with the way things are going we have made some hard decisions. Satelite T.V. gone. New carpet for the house, no we will pull the carpet up and enjoy the wood floors that are still in good shape. My new truck sitting in the driveway is getting sold and I am going to buy a cheaper truck and not have a payment. Lots of hard decisions add up to more well being.

I remember when my Grandma passed. I took two weeks of leave to go back to Arizona and clean her house out. She had lived through the depression and was a pack rat (read old school prepper) as a result. She lived in a little town near Casa Grande called Stanfield, drove a 30 year old station wagon and pickup. As far as we all knew she had no money to speak of. Her three bedroom house was packed floor to ceiling with any concievable item that might at some time be needed. One entire bedroom was full of 2x4 Studs, Plywood, Nails, Paint ETC. I found several briefcases full of cash and silver coins (totalled almost 30K). She had things from Sears and Montgomery Wards still new in the box from the 60's. Guns, Ammo, Clothes in all sizes new with the tags still on them. Out back in the shop was a "bug out" camp trailer. inside was all the things she thought she might need if she had to leave. It took her 60 years to accumulate all this stuff. It was all clean and orderly if somewhat cramped. If I was smart I would have held on to most of it. At the time I just moved it all to my folks place in Phoenix and had a MASSIVE yard sale. I kept most of the guns, her cast iron cookware and a few tools.

Grandma was in my mind the ultimate prepper and looking back at what she saved over the years I am trying to be prepared in a like manner. If I never use any of it then so be it. At least I am comforted in the knowledge that I am doing what I can to keep my family safe.

An old Pioneer saying that I have really been trying to apply lately is: "Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without". Sacrifice is a word that needs to be re-inserted into the English and American way of life.


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## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Now in that situation you posted---a $20 would have come out fast---if I was certain the couple were truthful..God has blessed me---


JayJay, put me in the same situation 5 yrs ago and I would of given the shirt off my back to help someone in a bad situation. I have changed so much. My eyes have been opened to the world around me. My mother used to always get on my for feeding strays. It took me a very long time to understand that with some painful lessons. Dont get me wrong. I donate but not where people know where it is coming from. I dont put myself or my family in the situation that they may come back standing on our doorstep with their hands out. 
I have one agenda and that is to ensure the survival of my family and I will do whatever it takes. Our children are the future. I do not have the time or patience to figure out who truly needs help or not. 
Now, with that said I am sure you probably think im cold hearted. If I heard it once I heard it 1,000 times from my grandma..God helps those who help themselves.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Read the Overton Window...

Poorly written fiction novel, with a hidden theme in reality. Basic premise, keep testing higher and higher limits, almost to the point of ridiculous, and then back off, but back off to a higher level than you were before. 

Consider commercial airlines and security. Who can argue that we did the right thing to shut down all air traffic after 911, but when it was restarted, we had much higher security. Then, after the shoe bomber, and underwear bombers, we had had ridiculous things like sexual assault level pat downs and clothing removal. But, now we have to pass through high tech scanners to avoid the assaults. AND WE ACCEPT IT! It's all in the name of security.

Read the book and was literally shaking after finishing it. The frog in the pan is an excellent analogy.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Not knowing those destitute people in the store its impossible to also know WHY they are in the dire financial situation they are in. People can be 'broke' for a lot of different reasons, many of which could be due to mismanagement.

The tides don't rise or fall everyplace at once. Its gradual and occurs at slightly different times according to location. I think we are seeing this same thing occur as local economies suffer in some locations and not others. Any area whose economy is dependent upon a single large employer are finding themselves in a very precarious position, like the poster from Huntsville, Ala. where NASA was the single largest employer and most everything else chugged along because of NASA's presence. NASA cuts back and the ripple effect is felt throughout the region.

My own region has been able so far to avoid the economic turn-down being experienced in other areas. The economic foundation here is very diverse, with heavy industry, light industry, high-tech, a growing number of small businesses best defined as being in the service related area, and six colleges, including what is probably the fastest growing Christian university in the country. No, I'm not bragging. We have simply been blessed. I hope it lasts. And, I hope that each of you prepare and find the right path in best protecting yourselves and your families because the future looks pretty dim for all of us if drastic directional changes are not made in 2012.


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## Browncoat (Oct 6, 2011)

Last year during the Thanksgiving/Christmas season I saw a family looking over the selection of hams for their dinner. They finally ended up with a small ham about the size of the husband's fist and from what I could tell, they were feeding at least four people on that. A few veggies from the clearance section and that was it. I dread going to the stores this year. 

Also, I work a block away from a food bank that is open just a couple of days a week. When I started this job three years ago, I really didn't know what that building was for, since no one was ever there. Now, I've learned to avoid using that street on my morning run to the post office, because there are so many people at the food bank that they are practically parking in the street. Now, I know for sure that not everyone that goes there is in a desperate situation, because I've had clients tell us they go there because they don't want to pay for stuff, even though they can. BUT, I also know that there are a lot of hungry people in the area who have come to depend on that food bank. I try to do what I can through our church, but I just don't know if it will ever be enough. Whatever caused them to get to this point, be it loss of job or lack of ambition, the fact is that they are still hungry, and I always worry about the kids, who have no control over the situation.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

showmegal said:


> JayJay, put me in the same situation 5 yrs ago and I would of given the shirt off my back to help someone in a bad situation. I have changed so much. My eyes have been opened to the world around me. My mother used to always get on my for feeding strays. It took me a very long time to understand that with some painful lessons. Dont get me wrong. I donate but not where people know where it is coming from. I dont put myself or my family in the situation that they may come back standing on our doorstep with their hands out.
> I have one agenda and that is to ensure the survival of my family and I will do whatever it takes. Our children are the future. I do not have the time or patience to figure out who truly needs help or not.
> Now, with that said I am sure you probably think im cold hearted. If I heard it once I heard it 1,000 times from my grandma..God helps those who help themselves.


I am with you.

It may seem cold-hearted and callous to some, but it comes down to simple distribution of resources. With that $20, I can get another 1/3 tank of gas, which will get me to work for two more days, or I can but fifteen cans of canned goods, or put it towards my guns-n-ammo fund, or I can put it towards one of my credit cards that is almost paid off.... Not that I am insensitive to the needs of others, but I have to think of the impact to my family _*first and foremost.*_ I help others when I can, but I prefer to do it with resources which are less exhaustable; helping my elderly neighbors chop wood and clear brush, etcetera.

I like helping others; I wouldn't be a cop if I didn't. Yeah, it gives me the warm-fuzzies... but so does hearing my wife open the pantry when we're snowed in and say, "Oh, good, we have plenty."


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle said:


> I am with you.
> 
> It may seem cold-hearted and callous to some, but it comes down to simple distribution of resources. With that $20, I can get another 1/3 tank of gas, which will get me to work for two more days, or I can but fifteen cans of canned goods, or put it towards my guns-n-ammo fund, or I can put it towards one of my credit cards that is almost paid off.... Not that I am insensitive to the needs of others, but I have to think of the impact to my family _*first and foremost.*_ I help others when I can, but I prefer to do it with resources which are less exhaustable; helping my elderly neighbors chop wood and clear brush, etcetera.
> 
> I like helping others; I wouldn't be a cop if I didn't. Yeah, it gives me the warm-fuzzies... but so does hearing my wife open the pantry when we're snowed in and say, "Oh, good, we have plenty."


Brother, you nailed it. If you and your family don't have enough to last out whatever befalls you, how in the world can you be expected to give away what little you have. 
I also agree that there are plenty of other ways to help folks out that only costs time and energy.

Now having said that, I will add that if it ever gets to the point (and right now we ain't there) where we feel that we have enough that we can help others out with food, we have all agreed that we would do what we could.

I am prepping for eleven people right now and I still have quite a ways to go, so like Turtle said all of our "spare" funds go toward survival.

DM


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

One problem as I see it is having a population already in place who have spent a lifetime gaming the system, which means that limited resources are already obligated at a time when truly needy people could benefit from the programs.

In my area, its "Dat be my check. I won't some of dat Obama money". In your area the accent may be somewhat different. None-the-less, the scamming is the same.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

My church has a food bank. Last year, we served about 100 families. This year, we're almost to 300. 

Last year, the vast majority of clients were elderly disabled folks. This year, there are a lot more families with children, young couples with children, or custodial grandparents who themselves are disabled.

The regional food bank is struggling, which translates into less for each of the local food banks. 

I do what I can to help the food bank, but I'm not in a position that allows me to do much. We started late paying off the debt, and preparing for an uncertain future, and it gives me heartburn to think about what still needs to be done with our limited resources.

I pray daily that we'll be able to pull it all together by the time we need it.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

showmegal said:


> JayJay, put me in the same situation 5 yrs ago and I would of given the shirt off my back to help someone in a bad situation. I have changed so much. My eyes have been opened to the world around me. My mother used to always get on my for feeding strays. It took me a very long time to understand that with some painful lessons. Dont get me wrong. I donate but not where people know where it is coming from. I dont put myself or my family in the situation that they may come back standing on our doorstep with their hands out.
> I have one agenda and that is to ensure the survival of my family and I will do whatever it takes. Our children are the future. I do not have the time or patience to figure out who truly needs help or not.
> Now, with that said I am sure you probably think im cold hearted. If I heard it once I heard it 1,000 times from my grandma..God helps those who help themselves.


Oh, no, I think you are smart---you're on a prepper forum, aren't you??? and if I had family, esp. children, I'd have a whole new outlook...I understand your attitude and perspective; and remember, I am older.
I've been there where all you are w. hardships...and now, the prepping I do is with dh's S.S. check as long as we don't need it here for household.
God is my rock, dh is my pebble. He's all I got on this earth.
TMI...I have $2300 in bills from broken toes in May---I bet 99.9% here think I'm irresponsible and don't own up to personal responsibility---you'd be soooo wrong there...I just keep finding amazing and samaritan-like things to do with those extra 10s I have.:ignore::dunno::ignore::dunno:

Peace and God bless my lost America. And poop on that doctor that NEVER touched my body and only wrote a pain prescription and sent ME a bill for $756!!!


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

I truly believe that we have a moral oblagation to help other people, and as I can I do. Having said that my ability to help has been limited due to economic conditions. We are living off of 40% of the income we had 2 years ago and have 2 more children. We are blessed beause we were prepared and can manage but disposable income is no more and so my ability to help is limited. Food banks and charities across the country are hurting as donations are way down and demand is way up.


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

You good people make me feel real sad with all that.......I live in the woods and far away from everyone so that I really don't see what is going on......I am lucky in that I knew long ago what was going to happen and had the money to get ready for it, is going to be a very, very, very, dark future for everyone, including for those who are "ready".

The main thing that I keep thinking about is.......how many kids and older people will die because of the cold?, I for one am able to ead grass and bugs (if I had to) but I cannot hide from the cold.....I am lucky in that I have a very good kerosene heather (Toyo) and fuel for about four years, three cords of wood in reserve and with the forest as my back yard......by the way, in the 11 years that I have lived here a cord of wood has gone up from $85.00 to $210.00.

About helping others.......it hurts me to say DON'T DO IT because if you help one you will then have to help many and at the end you will be like them, hungry and cold.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Of all the silly things that could happen to me...or anybody for that matter, I was driving down the road the other day and for some reason I notice a plastic grocery type bag hanging on a tree limb, I looked at it as I flew past then realized I had been looking at it for a while, it appeared one day and there it was, silly damn thing to notice , but I did... Later while I was emptying out the same type bags in my cabin I looked at one and had the thought... how do they make this? where do they make them?... I thought about why I save them , I use them all the time, small garbage can in the bathroom.. I tote library books back in one.. I clean out the rolling land fill I call a truck... and use a few ..

Ever think how handy those bags are? and empty milk jugs? we talk about a SHTF event, having food, guns ammo etc..but some of the simplest things in the world will be gone ...maybe for good... and sure the lack of a plastic bag isn't the end of the world but.. they sure are handy.. as are empty milk jugs.. I store water in them , rice and beans can be easily poured into them...

There is so damn much we take for granite ... Duct tape... how could we live without taping our Ducks?... any tape for all that... rope... we have a ton of bailing twine around the barn and we use it ...a lot... nails.. I don't have any extra nails... I can't make my own..

Anyway I could go on and on and on....... all because of a plastic bag that is still blowing in a tree near home... Plastic.. a simple thing... yet if it's unavailable we would notice it right away..

I have a friend who has a lot of the steel cable used by power line company's to brace poles. their company took down a couple of towers, they have a ton of it... I think I need to see them..

All because of a silly plastic bag ..blowing in the wind and found a home in a tree... *


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

so often we think that helping a person is to give them something. I need help. but I don't need stuff, I need physical help. help to weed my garden, mow my grass, lift heavy things. I can't pay for it but I can trade for it. the trouble is that people want money which I don't have. so I do the best I can, eat well (garden), dress well (sew), have nice furniture (built it our self), or do without. people seem to want something for doing nothing, just having their hand out. what ever happen to the true barter way?


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

"I think we need to help people". I do, too. One day it will be us that appreciates someone helping when we need it.

I spent five hours sitting in a hospital with dear friends last night. One of them, a brother vet, has cancer and went into respiratory distress and had to be transported to the ER. His wife called me and asked that I come. I arrived home this morning around 0230.

I have anonymously mailed a $100 bill to families having difficult times for one reason or another, but at no fault of their own. They never know who sent the money, which is the way I want it.

My wife and I have helped those who either can't help themselves or who simply need a little push. We also have a very tight knit veteran community here and we all work together when required and look out for each other, especially the older vets who are infirm.

I have no problem doing any of the above. I often feel God has given me that opportunity. However.... HOWEVER... I will not throw good money after bad or waste a minute of my time for people who could help themselves, but won't. There is an entire segment of the population who are no more than professional parasites, and it isn't confined to any one race. I feel no obligation nor do I feel lead to throw pearls to swine. Sorry if anyone is offended by that remark, but its how I feel about it. I'm willing to give most anyone a hand up, but not necessarily a hand out.


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## akmike (Feb 17, 2010)

I agree Jezcruzen, it's one of the places we need to find balance in our lives, ours and our families needs vs. helping others. I think we as a society need to get back to the idea that the community helps those in need a hand up vs. the govt. being the " hand out" so to speak. I think that when the govt. is overly involved in the hands outs it encourges all those that want hand outs as opposed to those who need a hand up getting it from the community and then being more likely to help out when they can. Hope this all made sense?


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## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

I'm not saying I don't help people. Our best friends lost everything after both losing their jobs at the same time from a plant shut down. 3 kids and didn't have but $5 a day to try to feed their family if that. We did everything we could to try to help them without burying ourselves. We now own many of their items that they sold off to us trying to keep afloat. We figured we would just hold onto it and if a time comes they can buy it back. They both have jobs but making only 1/4 of what they did before but at least they have jobs.
She is trying to prep too because both our families are in it together. She does what she can afford but basically it boils down to me needing to prep for 10-13 people. 
All I'm saying is that I don't have time to get to know all the people that are in dire straights nor do I have the resources to save the world unfortunately.


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## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

God help them who help themselves was a term used in my family when we were being lazy..not helpless. For times we were quick to start leaning on someone for help when we had not exhausted all our abilities to complete a task. I hope I did not come across as saying not to help the helpless and sure didn't intend on opening a religious debate. :surrender:


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

Speaking of sacrifice, on a local new station they were doing a story on the Afghan war and touched on how no one in this war has sacrificed other than the soldiers and their families, which in WWII, we all cut back, grew food, etc.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

As things get worse we're going to see people in grocery store checkout lines with a carts full of groceries and none of their credit cards work. We all need to think in advance about whether or not we help someone in that situation and how often we could do that.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Ponce said:


> You good people make me feel real sad with all that.......I live in the woods and far away from everyone so that I really don't see what is going on......I am lucky in that I knew long ago what was going to happen and had the money to get ready for it, is going to be a very, very, very, dark future for everyone, including for those who are "ready".
> 
> The main thing that I keep thinking about is.......how many kids and older people will die because of the cold?, I for one am able to ead grass and bugs (if I had to) but I cannot hide from the cold.....I am lucky in that I have a very good kerosene heather (Toyo) and fuel for about four years, three cords of wood in reserve and with the forest as my back yard......by the way, in the 11 years that I have lived here a cord of wood has gone up from $85.00 to $210.00.
> 
> .


Oh, Ponce...I take your sentiment one step further---and please don't get upset with me---I am moral, but how will we dispose of these bodies??
I am very serious and noone will talk about it---I and dh are to be cremated---our souls don't care what happens to the flesh, praise the Lord....
and I have 400 gallons of propane coming (new, bigger tank), can use H/A system as long as I can afford electricity, and a military wood burning stove in the attic that CAN get stuck out the garage window if necessary---oh, yes, I will; screw the neighbors' attitude...and so that's 3 heats and I can cook on the wood burner.:congrat:
I worry about freezing--I got enough food for XXX years!!:congrat:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

HozayBuck---for me it's ziploks...I can not break my habit and I'm conservative but those little buggers can be used for anything and everything!!!
So, you can guess what I have shelfs full of---on sale--DG or anywhere else they're on sale...
Hooahh!


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## siletz (Aug 23, 2011)

I feel that such a large part of our society doesn't even know _how_ to provide for themselves when crisis comes. When people went through the depression, they already had skills like how to grow their own food and preserve it. So many of these skills have been lost to such a large segment of our society that they won't be able to weather the smallest "storm".


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Asatrur said:


> Speaking of sacrifice, on a local new station they were doing a story on the Afghan war and touched on how no one in this war has sacrificed other than the soldiers and their families, which in WWII, we all cut back, grew food, etc.


Ive heard this said before but how could my sacrifice help in the current war effort?

I think the difference is that during WWII the government asked the citizenry to sacrifice and give to the war effort -- now they just raise our taxes or kill our businesses with crippling taxes. They dont even ask any more.

I would be happy to give if I thought it would help. I would prefer to be asked.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> "I think we need to help people". I do, too. One day it will be us that appreciates someone helping when we need it.
> 
> I spent five hours sitting in a hospital with dear friends last night. One of them, a brother vet, has cancer and went into respiratory distress and had to be transported to the ER. His wife called me and asked that I come. I arrived home this morning around 0230.
> 
> ...


Great post---but I don't mind people seeing me do good or give to others if I have it to give ---it's called 'pass it forward---there's a tv commercial(or used to be, I don't have tv)about one seeing and doing likewise.
NEVER feel you are showing out---I know what the Bible and Lord says...dont' broadcast it---but if I'm in a city, noone knows me, I help someone with a meal, that's not broadcsasting...that's passing it forward...IF someone takes the torch...
I wonder at times if my blessing is received because I helped someone and that's God sending a message with one of those 'thumbs up!!!'. I really like to think that way.
Peace and God bless our giving however big or small. :congrat:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

BillS said:


> As things get worse we're going to see people in grocery store checkout lines with a carts full of groceries and none of their credit cards work. We all need to think in advance about whether or not we help someone in that situation and how often we could do that.


You are so right--I spoke this morning with a church member helping her find alloy wheel covers--and I mentioned being a prepper, just to see IF...and she said you're a what??
End of story---I said, oh nothing.
I am now at the SECOND church since June 2009 that noone knows what storing food is and what it's for!!!
Bill, if they are using cc, not debit, for groceries, they're already in trouble.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Well I reckon it's finally time for me to stick my nose in here and add my two cents worth so here goes.

I have no problem at all giving help to folks that thru no fault of their own are having a bad time and need the help. I figure that if you are an honest hard working person and have worked and tried to take care of your family to the best of your ability and then you get the whammy, yes you need and deserve help.

On the other hand if you are lazy, dishonest, a welfare king or queen, or any number of other low life loosers and are living off of us tax paying citizens then you can starve, freeze, burn slap up, or fall off a tall building for all I care. The same goes for the criminals that prey on honest folks.

The ones that my heart really goes out to are the children of those loosers that thru no fault of their own are trapped in that situation. 

I haven't forgotten about the elderly that are living hand to mouth on very limited fixed incomes, suffer from the cold and heat, and have to do without food, meds, and a whole host of other things on a daily basis.

I know that we can't go running around on our white charger jousting with windmills nor can we right all of the wrongs that we see, but yes I reckon we can do what we are able to do for those that honestly need it.

DM


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

tortminder said:


> The signs have been there over the past 15 years or more that something evil this way comes.
> 
> It is up to each of us who are awake and aware to do what is necessary to insure the well being and survival of our own. That is our mission. Grasshoppers who have sung and played all summer will perish when winter winds begin to blow. That is their problem, not ours.


AMEN ... the Dems are now "backing" the so-called "protestors" as are all the socialist groups, labor unions, and hollywood types. I expect any day to see it erupt into mass violence and then chaos.

Have you ever seen a swarm of grasshoppers, once they run out of vegetation, they start eating each other....

We are at a historic place in our country, we've seen this same scenario play out several times in the world thru-out history. Of course very few learn from history, but those here whose *eyes are wide open* have. Its gonna be ugly!

I believe that all suffering can be a tool to teach humility. Its gonna be a tough lesson and many will not live thru it. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see are the already humble ones, the "poor in spirit"...its been said that they (some of them) will inherit the earth...what a concept!


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

TheAnt said:


> Ive heard this said before but how could my sacrifice help in the current war effort?
> 
> I think the difference is that during WWII the government asked the citizenry to sacrifice and give to the war effort -- now they just raise our taxes or kill our businesses with crippling taxes. They dont even ask any more.
> 
> I would be happy to give if I thought it would help. I would prefer to be asked.


That is the point, if the citizens had to actually feel these wars, they would be so support your troops, etc.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

OldVet--you're right and if all of us just adopt one couple, or one elderly, or one disabled in our community...man, oh, man...in just a few months(okay, maybe years) we can tell the govt to kiss our butts on some issues..

I got one I check on---how about you???


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

oldvet said:


> Well I reckon it's finally time for me to stick my nose in here and add my two cents worth so here goes.
> 
> I have no problem at all giving help to folks that thru no fault of their own are having a bad time and need the help. I figure that if you are an honest hard working person and have worked and tried to take care of your family to the best of your ability and then you get the whammy, yes you need and deserve help.
> 
> ...


Well said Brother!


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

The problem with the whole idea of "pay it forward" is that it only takes one lazy sack of crap to take advantage and screw it up. 

Case in point: About three Christmas's ago, I was in line at a local Chic-Fil-A, stopping to get breakfast before work on Christmas Eve. It was one of those set-ups where you order at one window and pay at the second. Two cars in front of me, I heard the driver ask the girl at the second window if the family (obviously homeless) on the curb had been there long, and when the girl said that they had, the guy in the car bought four sandwiches for them, and in the spirit of giving, bought the meal for the car behind him. When that car pulled up and heard what the other gentleman had done, they bought my meal. I pulled up and likewise paid for the family in the car behind me. When that woman pulled up and was asked if she would like to buy the breakfast of the one guy behind her, she responded with, "What? Oh, Hell no!", took her food, and drove away. So, in the spirit of trying to do something nice for a stranger, I got stuck paying eighteen bucks for my three dollar meal.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle said:


> The problem with the whole idea of "pay it forward" is that it only takes one lazy sack of crap to take advantage and screw it up.
> 
> Case in point: About three Christmas's ago, I was in line at a local Chic-Fil-A, stopping to get breakfast before work on Christmas Eve. It was one of those set-ups where you order at one window and pay at the second. Two cars in front of me, I heard the driver ask the girl at the second window if the family (obviously homeless) on the curb had been there long, and when the girl said that they had, the guy in the car bought four sandwiches for them, and in the spirit of giving, bought the meal for the car behind him. When that car pulled up and heard what the other gentleman had done, they bought my meal. I pulled up and likewise paid for the family in the car behind me. When that woman pulled up and was asked if she would like to buy the breakfast of the one guy behind her, she responded with, "What? Oh, Hell no!", took her food, and drove away. So, in the spirit of trying to do something nice for a stranger, I got stuck paying eighteen bucks for my three dollar meal.


I can surely understand your frustration and anger over that situation, but keep one thing in mind, you and the others in line did pay it forward and did what you knew was right. What you withessed her say and do is how a percentage of people that are the what can you do for me and screw everyone else crowd act all the time. Don't let it get you down just keep doing what you know is right. :2thumb:

DM


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

@ Turtle... You kept you part of the "bargain" by paying it forward. She didn't. Instead of you, she'll be the one to get the short end of the stick next time. 

Unrelated, we tried to start a community garden with the goal of growing some for you and some to donate to those that need food. We approached our city and they said sorry we have no budget. Keep in mind we did not ask for budget, just how the felt about the idea. We approached two churches, never got a response. We approached our subdivision "board". Also never got a response. WTF?!?! We weren't asking them for anything. Just how the felt about the idea. If any had responded all we wanted was some unused land that we could start it on. In each case there was vast expanses of lawn that was mowed weekly but otherwised unused. Sadly we never even got to that point. 

We're going to try again this winter to see if we can get something setup before spring rolls around again. I already got more than enough seed to share and we're sure we can get a few simple materials and tools donated. We just need to get some space and a water source.

Sad that pretty much everyone around us is too ignorant or self absorbed to care about trying to do a bit of good. And it was really surprising that two churches ignored us.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

CulexPipiens said:


> @ Turtle... You kept you part of the "bargain" by paying it forward. She didn't. Instead of you, she'll be the one to get the short end of the stick next time.
> 
> Unrelated, we tried to start a community garden with the goal of growing some for you and some to donate to those that need food. We approached our city and they said sorry we have no budget. Keep in mind we did not ask for budget, just how the felt about the idea. We approached two churches, never got a response. We approached our subdivision "board". Also never got a response. WTF?!?! We weren't asking them for anything. Just how the felt about the idea. If any had responded all we wanted was some unused land that we could start it on. In each case there was vast expanses of lawn that was mowed weekly but otherwised unused. Sadly we never even got to that point.
> 
> ...


A thought;
Have you tried talking to any of the folks around your neighborhood that have large side yards or even back yards and maybe explaining to them that with very little work from them they can reap the rewards of sharing in the produce from the garden?

It could be worth a shot,.

Ya nebber know hit cud hapin.

DM


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

CulexPipiens said:


> @ Turtle... You kept you part of the "bargain" by paying it forward. She didn't. Instead of you, she'll be the one to get the short end of the stick next time.
> 
> Unrelated, we tried to start a community garden with the goal of growing some for you and some to donate to those that need food. We approached our city and they said sorry we have no budget. Keep in mind we did not ask for budget, just how the felt about the idea. We approached two churches, never got a response. We approached our subdivision "board". Also never got a response. WTF?!?! We weren't asking them for anything. Just how the felt about the idea. If any had responded all we wanted was some unused land that we could start it on. In each case there was vast expanses of lawn that was mowed weekly but otherwised unused. Sadly we never even got to that point.
> 
> ...


Self-absorbed is right---what a sad tale.
Those with their heads up their butts will be the ones starving and dying first--watch and see.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

CulexPipiens said:


> @ Turtle... You kept you part of the "bargain" by paying it forward. She didn't. Instead of you, she'll be the one to get the short end of the stick next time.
> 
> Unrelated, we tried to start a community garden with the goal of growing some for you and some to donate to those that need food. We approached our city and they said sorry we have no budget. Keep in mind we did not ask for budget, just how the felt about the idea. We approached two churches, never got a response. We approached our subdivision "board". Also never got a response. WTF?!?! We weren't asking them for anything. Just how the felt about the idea. If any had responded all we wanted was some unused land that we could start it on. In each case there was vast expanses of lawn that was mowed weekly but otherwised unused. Sadly we never even got to that point.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, my guess is that they are all afraid of legal implications; what happens if someone gets sick from the food grown there? What happens if someone chops off a toe with a garden hoe? What happens if a fight breaks out over who has rights to a particular crop? What if someone plants a marijuana plant on the land?

In our overly litigious society, any good that may come from an act must be weighed against the legal ramifications and consequences. It really is a shame that a group of well-meaning individuals would be so easily stone-walled from a potentially productive endeavor, but this is just another reality of the wicked world in which we live.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I have heard Missouri has been hit hard and things are extra tough down there. Our real unemployment in Oregon is actually 15.6%, not good. However seems that for the most part, people have been making it ok. I am unsure about the more rural communities (we are rural but more central to the big towns, essentially one of those rural bedroom communities). I wonder how people in Eastern Oregon are doing? I know they get hit hard over there, especially since logging is one of their main industries and since construction is down....

THe best we all can do is to prep, prep, prep, and prep some more. Meet people and encourage them to do the same. Maybe invest in some seeds for those in need, it is an affordable way to help, and encourage them to think ahead. My husband supervises three guys, and one of them has two kids, he and his wife are having a terrible time, we have extra land and am thinking about having my husband offer the space up, with use of our tools, to plant food this spring out here. 

On that note, about a million years ago, I was working in the city, and commuted by train into town. On the way, the train passed these empty spaces between neighborhoods and train tracks, and I would see the Vietnamese immigrants out there every day tending these plots they had put in for food. They would have them all over, along steep little slopes. I admired them for being so independent and thinking ahead for their own needs instead of waiting for someone, or a food bank, to help them out.

My reason for this story is that our own people sometimes forget how to be independent and are waiting for someone to come bail them out of hardship, but sometimes, like these immigrants who were used to scraping by and making their own way, they just need to jump in and get moving and stop waiting for something that just might not be there. We have forgotten how to make it without big brother, thats the scary part to me.


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## Homegrowngirl (Apr 19, 2011)

I can sympathize with the situation. We have been in and out of work for a couple of years now. I just lost my job a month ago, my husband's job is in question after the first of the year. We live on a very tight budget, while trying to figure out what we can live without if he loses his job. We have friends and others living on our property who have no job, and no where to live. It is all around us, and we watch it on the news every night it seems. We are just blessed to own our land, now we just have to pay the bills.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

DH and I help a lot of people who otherwise could not do for themselves. Mostly elderly or disabled. We donate food to our church food pantry. We hear of a truly needy family and leave a box of food on their doorstep. We have sent money in unsigned cheery cards. But I think both of us know when we are being conned. DH has a ex-DIL that was always asking for money because the grandchild was hungry. I knew she was using the money to party, so the next time she ask I took her to the grocery store and told her to get a buggy and buy anything she wanted I would wait on the bench up front and pay when she got to the check-out. She only bought a few days worth of junk food and never asked again.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I have seen some churches do community gardens, but of course, sure, some might be nervous about legal implications if something went wrong, someone used a fertilizer that was improperly aged and contaminated the soil.

However, a time will come when it will not matter, and will become necessary and many will realize it.


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

showmegal said:


> I live in a sleepy little town of less than 2000. Today I walk into the grocery store and round the first row of racks to see one lady standing there with bbq charcoal talking to another lady about how she was hoping they would get enough money together to get their electric turned back on because she was tired of cooking like this. My heart sunk and I keep on moving only to see a sign below the instant potatoes saying there was a shortage with their supplier and they apologized for being out of stock. Uhmm...ok, round the corner and look..the rice is really low...keep on moving..the beans are low. In my mind I am wondering if people are stocking up or is this becoming everyones typical dinner. So, I go to check out. Behind me is a couple with probably 5 pkgs of hotdogs and buns to go with them. The man throws down the money and says, thats it hun, that is the gas money and I dont know how we are going to get to work. We are going to have to find someone near work to stay with. It took everything I had to keep it together and not cry. The food banks are begging for donations and they are now finding homeless people living in their cars. All I keep thinking about is the frog slowly cooking in the pot. If I ran across 2 people in the condition they are in today talking publicly about their dire situations can you imagine all those that are in the same shape that aren't talking. Sorry to ramble on but my gut says its not going to be much longer before things start getting nasty.


wow, that really broke my heart...........I've not seen or heard anything like that, guess it's coming.........


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

The hard part these days, is knowing when someone is in a dire situation or not. We have a huge problem here of pro panhandlers all over town. These people are not, often, homeless, or destitute, they are simply finding it easier to stand around with a sad looking cardboard sign to beg for money. We personally have seen one couple in particular eventually drive off from their begging spot in a decent car, about as old as ours, from Walmart, after loading up bags upon bags, 

Although I know, showmegal, that there are many in truly tough situations, I felt seeing the panhandlers as a reminder of how many in our society now play the victim for easy living. When someone is truly in need, and has character, they will not be out begging, they will be hitting the bricks to find work to make their way. You will know, like you saw, they will be the ones with a list, and a calculator, counting every penny, often having to put things back. They will not be the ones with bags of chips, soda, instant meals, cookies, etc.., they will be the ones with the basics.

It is also hard, seeing the many panhandlers, those sucking off the system, to not become jaded to need and then not be able to see it when it is right in front of you. Taking care of family first, then others when you can is good if you are able. Always making sure to encourage those in need to do what others have to become more self reliant away from a system that is falling apart.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

Between layoffs and my Husbands heart attack, we have run through our 3 month supply of food we had put back. I am sorry to say that I finally had to go to a church food pantry. After they gave me 2 prepackaged bags of canned food they had a rack of foods that you were allowed to take 2 additional items from. While I stood there trying to decide which items I could get the most use out of the woman working there started a conversation with me. I told her I could not decide between the items on the shelf. Cornmeal, I could make muffins, mush, Mommaliga (polenta to you non-Romanians). Potatoes- no explanation needed. Flour- no explaination needed. Dried lentils, soup, side dishes, etc. Fennel seeds, great for upset tummies, tea. Canned beans, tomato paste, other useful items as well. She looked at me and said take all of the spices and whatever else I wanted. She said those items were there for so long because most people that came in only wanted the "easy" foods and did not want to be bothered or even knew what to do with most of those items.


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

WOW! Read every post w/ a heavy heart. 

HozayBuck - You're right, we need to appreciate those little things (often thrown away) that make life a little more convenient.

Turtle - Sorry you were disheartened by that last car that ruined everything, but consider this, 3 out of 4 played fair. That's not bad, not bad at all. Don't let it get you down, you never know how much you're really helping sometimes.

And the post that really did me in, was from mdprepper - it's really affecting one of our own.  Already gone through 3 mos. of preps? I know we all need our privacy, but I sure wish there were a way we could help each other out. :dunno: My heart breaks for her. Know that you are in our prayers. 

Whew - tough posts!


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

mdprepper, I wish we could help. I think I am much too far from you. Hard part is this is no longer growing season either. I'll keep you all in our prayers.

As well, I agree, people do not use the basics anymore to make meals from scratch. I can understand using quick fix pre-packaged stuff on a terribly busy night, or keeping it around because it is a dried product which can keep for some time, but yes, too many people see it these days as a necessity.

I keep packaged scalloped/au gratin potato mixes around because they are part of my stock (dried potatoes when fresh might be in short supply), but if I make something with potatoes currently I cannot imagine anything but fresh (yes, this means slicing the potatoes by hand and grating the cheese...).


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

mdprepper said:


> Between layoffs and my Husbands heart attack, we have run through our 3 month supply of food we had put back. I am sorry to say that I finally had to go to a church food pantry. After they gave me 2 prepackaged bags of canned food they had a rack of foods that you were allowed to take 2 additional items from. While I stood there trying to decide which items I could get the most use out of the woman working there started a conversation with me. I told her I could not decide between the items on the shelf. Cornmeal, I could make muffins, mush, Mommaliga (polenta to you non-Romanians). Potatoes- no explanation needed. Flour- no explaination needed. Dried lentils, soup, side dishes, etc. Fennel seeds, great for upset tummies, tea. Canned beans, tomato paste, other useful items as well. She looked at me and said take all of the spices and whatever else I wanted. She said those items were there for so long because most people that came in only wanted the "easy" foods and did not want to be bothered or even knew what to do with most of those items.


Don't be sorry to avail yourself to the church pantry! I pray you find provisions there "much more" than you need! I don't know what state you live in (MD?) but You might check at farm stores or markets to see if they allow gleaning or have items that are past their prime for selling. We get lots of veggies and fruits from a guy who sells at farmer's markets b'cuz once they start to shrivel a bit he has to throw them out. He gives them to me for my chickkens but I promise you, I've canned tomatillo sauce (salsa verde), peach preserves, tomatoes, peppers, and frozen bits and peices of veg that were, to me, "too good for the chickens!"

Its hard times, but the wise will find ways to make do, even if at times it is thru help from others or from "above"! Hang in there!


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

HoppeEL4 said:


> I keep packaged scalloped/au gratin potato mixes around because they are part of my stock (dried potatoes when fresh might be in short supply), but if I make something with potatoes currently I cannot imagine anything but fresh (yes, this means slicing the potatoes by hand and grating the cheese...).


There is one thing I hate about potatoes: Peeling them...so I don't!  Wash, cook, eat! As nature intended. Hee hee! :2thumb:


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

What an incredible thread.........I'm sitting here grinning at some of you and have tears over others. Jesus said we are called to be light and we are seated on a hill so we can give light to others. Let your light shine. When you do a kindness for someone, it's ok if others see, that's seeing your light, they will be drawn by what they see. Paying it forward or blessing a neighbor, ( or stranger) that is our choice, doesn't matter if anyone else chooses the same, just matters what we choose, because we aren't choosing for their commendation, we are choosing for ours! So bless someone, you're the one who will ultimately be blessed. I just pray that our discernment is sharp and our hearts are willing to be lead. I also agree with finding others ( elderly, young parents who just can't by themselves or whatever) and giving support as we can........sometimes it isn't food or money, sometimes its a ride to the store or sharing garden space,


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> I have heard Missouri has been hit hard and things are extra tough down there. Our real unemployment in Oregon is actually 15.6%, not good. However seems that for the most part, people have been making it ok. I am unsure about the more rural communities (we are rural but more central to the big towns, essentially one of those rural bedroom communities). I wonder how people in Eastern Oregon are doing? I know they get hit hard over there, especially since logging is one of their main industries and since construction is down....
> 
> THe best we all can do is to prep, prep, prep, and prep some more. Meet people and encourage them to do the same. Maybe invest in some seeds for those in need, it is an affordable way to help, and encourage them to think ahead. My husband supervises three guys, and one of them has two kids, he and his wife are having a terrible time, we have extra land and am thinking about having my husband offer the space up, with use of our tools, to plant food this spring out here.
> 
> ...


Yes! Here in eastern Wa. we need apple pickers really bad but most of our white population will not , I repeat, will not pick apples. I can hardly believe it........it's easier to scream for welfare or sympathy than to work, where did the pride go? With what generation did it die??


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

IMO it is the entitlement mentality and lack of personal responsibility standard that society has developed over the last couple of decades, it goes hand in hand with the fact that this is no longer a Christain country. This government was designed by christains with christain values. Madison said that this Constitution only works for a moral Christain society.

I fear we have reached the tipping point in now we have a large enough of a entitlement portion of the total population that they can and are voting in a government that will take from those that have and have worked for it to give to those that do not want to work.

That being said, I still have to live by my values of my faith and that means where I can help others (that deserve helping, my caviat, I'm not perfect  )


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

lefty said:


> IMO it is theentitlement mentality and lack of personal responsibility standard that society has developed over the last couple of decades, in goes hand in hand with the fact that this is no longer a Christain country. This government was designed by christains with christain values. MAdison said that this Constitution only works for a moral Christain society.
> 
> I fear we have reached the tipping point in now we have a large enough of a entitlement portion of the total population that they can and are voting in a government that will take from those that have and have worked for it to give to those that do not want to work.
> 
> That being said, I still have to live by my values of my faith and that means where I can help others (that deserve helping, my caviat, I'm not perfect  )


Big ups! :congrat::congrat::congrat:


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lefty said:


> IMO it is theentitlement mentality and lack of personal responsibility standard that society has developed over the last couple of decades, in goes hand in hand with the fact that this is no longer a Christain country. This government was designed by christains with christain values. MAdison said that this Constitution only works for a moral Christain society.
> 
> I fear we have reached the tipping point in now we have a large enough of a entitlement portion of the total population that they can and are voting in a government that will take from those that have and have worked for it to give to those that do not want to work.
> 
> That being said, I still have to live by my values of my faith and that means where I can help others (that deserve helping, my caviat, I'm not perfect  )


:congrat: Well said! :congrat:


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

It is something I struggle with. I am the den leader for my oldest son's cub scout den. Last week we were having 1st aid training (note they are 8 so it is limited) and I started thinking even though I am trying to prepare them as much as possible to be prepared and what to do in an emergency the truth is they are only small children and if it rally goes south they are in trouble. I am not aware of any of the famlies that prep and a number of them are from single mom homes. I tell them they can always come to me if they need too. So what do I do if the SHTF and one of these kids show up? I can't turn him away. Whatif he shows up with his mom or entire family. I struggle with this.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

lefty said:


> It is something I struggle with. I am the den leader for my oldest son's cub scout den. Last week we were having 1st aid training (note they are 8 so it is limited) and I started thinking even though I am trying to prepare them as much as possible to be prepared and what to do in an emergency the truth is they are only small children and if it rally goes south they are in trouble. I am not aware of any of the famlies that prep and a number of them are from single mom homes. I tell them they can always come to me if they need too. So what do I do if the SHTF and one of these kids show up? I can't turn him away. Whatif he shows up with his mom or entire family. I struggle with this.


I have a sneaky suspicion that from the way you ended the post before this one that you will know how to deal with one of these kids and their families showing up when that time comes. Preparations will be provided to take care of them and you will have the joy of seeing things fall into place in perfect providence.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> I have a sneaky suspicion that from the way you ended the post before this one that you will know how to deal with one of these kids and their families showing up when that time comes. Preparations will be provided to take care of them and you will have the joy of seeing things fall into place in perfect providence.


I have no doubt as to what Lefty would do. He would do the same as you or I would in that situation.

We may talk a hard game at times and rightly so because I have no doubt that should trouble arise, you and I and many others on here will handle it in the manner needed at the time.

However I honestly believe that the majority of the folks on here would not turn away that child or his family.

There is a world of difference in that family that is standing at your door asking for help, and the other types that think you owe them the help or try and just take it.

JMHO


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

oldvet said:


> I have no doubt as to what Lefty would do. He would do the same as you or I would in that situation.
> 
> We may talk a hard game at times and rightly so because I have no doubt that should trouble arise, you and I and many others on here will handle it in the manner needed at the time.
> 
> ...


You're correct but someone will post in a minute how you cant help everyone that deserves it and you will be overrun if you help even one. So I am going to beat them to it! Aha! True, we cant help everyone but you have to evaluate things at the time. You may be able to help one family without any others knowing. You have to be sensitive to the situation and to how you are being led.

EDIT: I love "Semper Gumby", and that is exactly what would be called for in this situation!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> You're correct but someone will post in a minute how you cant help everyone that deserves it and you will be overrun if you help even one. So I am going to beat them to it! Aha! True, we cant help everyone but you have to evaluate things at the time. You may be able to help one family without any others knowing. You have to be sensitive to the situation and to how you are being led.
> 
> EDIT: I love "Semper Gumby", and that is exactly what would be called for in this situation!


Agree totally, the last thing any of us would want is a line forming at our door for handouts.

We aren't the worlds keepers, but as you said "you may be able to help one family without any others knowing".

I will simply say that I will do what I feel is the right thing to do at the time.


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## showmegal (Sep 14, 2011)

I think that decision would not be able to be made prior to whatever event happened. It would depend on the situation, how much supplies you have, how long the event lasted. Sorry, if you aren't in my circle now, chances are the door won't be answered unless im completely confident my family is taken care of first. It would be heart breaking but sometimes hard decisions have to be made.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

showmegal said:


> I think that decision would not be able to be made prior to whatever event happened. It would depend on the situation, how much supplies you have, how long the event lasted. Sorry, if you aren't in my circle now, chances are the door won't be answered unless im completely confident my family is taken care of first. It would be heart breaking but sometimes hard decisions have to be made.


I understand what you are saying and for the most part I agree, especially about the safety of my family. That has always been number one and always will be.

You are also correct in that hard decisions will have to be made, you cannot be expected to hand over everything that you have stored for your family's well being, and a person would be a total idiot to even contemplate that action. There are exceptions and I am sure that there will be times when you can't or won't say no and give that person or family a meal or possible a few days worth of food.

Everyone will do what they feel is right no matter what anyone else says or thinks, and I believe that is as it should be.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

neldarez....I agree with you, no one wants to do the manual labor jobs anymore. I have a photo of my dad, his older and younger brother, all lined up on a picking ladder. They were in their teens working in their great-aunts orchard in Omak, probably was about 1954. My uncle continued to do migrant work like that after time in the Navy. He was a confirmed bachelor, had no roots anywhere and it suited him. He did this until he could not physically anymore. We grew up near Mt. Hood, where berries were widely grown, and as kids (all six of us) were sent out every weekday in the summer, start at about 7:30 am till about 1:00 pm, picking. Kept us out of trouble and also gave us money for stuff (school clothes our parents could not afford to buy beyond the basics).

I say that all states should put a stipulation upon welfare recipients. If there is local work and they are not actively going to school (an education that furthers their chances of being self supporting only), then they should be put to work for the prevailing wage, taken off the rolls and the employer (field and orchard owners in this case) could be given tax breaks for hiring them...win, win. Besdies, even minimum wage is more than you will ever get from welfare, so why wouldn't they want it? I know, they wouldn't, and welfare rights activists (why do people on welfare have a right to rape the system and why do people support them not working?) would scream foul and claim it was "forced labor". I say it would not be forced, their choices would be work, or be booted off welfare.

Anyways, it is a sad day when people would prefer to sit on their lazy backends and take money they did not earn than to work.


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> neldarez....I agree with you, no one wants to do the manual labor jobs anymore. I have a photo of my dad, his older and younger brother, all lined up on a picking ladder. They were in their teens working in their great-aunts orchard in Omak, probably was about 1954. My uncle continued to do migrant work like that after time in the Navy. He was a confirmed bachelor, had no roots anywhere and it suited him. He did this until he could not physically anymore. We grew up near Mt. Hood, where berries were widely grown, and as kids (all six of us) were sent out every weekday in the summer, start at about 7:30 am till about 1:00 pm, picking. Kept us out of trouble and also gave us money for stuff (school clothes our parents could not afford to buy beyond the basics).
> 
> I say that all states should put a stipulation upon welfare recipients. If there is local work and they are not actively going to school (an education that furthers their chances of being self supporting only), then they should be put to work for the prevailing wage, taken off the rolls and the employer (field and orchard owners in this case) could be given tax breaks for hiring them...win, win. Besdies, even minimum wage is more than you will ever get from welfare, so why wouldn't they want it? I know, they wouldn't, and welfare rights activists (why do people on welfare have a right to rape the system and why do people support them not working?) would scream foul and claim it was "forced labor". I say it would not be forced, their choices would be work, or be booted off welfare.
> 
> Anyways, it is a sad day when people would prefer to sit on their lazy backends and take money they did not earn than to work.


I absolutely agree with you and guess what.....I'm in Omak.........that blew my mind when you said that! I've picked apples and cherries and checked bins, worked in the apple shed and never once felt that I was doing menial labor.........I felt like I was harvesting the crop, which I do in my garden every year! Working anywhere for an honest wage is a proud thing...and use to be a totally expected thing to do.........go figure, no work, no food, rent, power, water, gas..........you know, all the extras........lol


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

lefty said:


> It is something I struggle with. I am the den leader for my oldest son's cub scout den. Last week we were having 1st aid training (note they are 8 so it is limited) and I started thinking even though I am trying to prepare them as much as possible to be prepared and what to do in an emergency the truth is they are only small children and if it rally goes south they are in trouble. I am not aware of any of the famlies that prep and a number of them are from single mom homes. I tell them they can always come to me if they need too. So what do I do if the SHTF and one of these kids show up? I can't turn him away. Whatif he shows up with his mom or entire family. I struggle with this.


On a similar note, I realized as I read your post that I am no longer just prepping for my immediate family, but for the family of my son's best friend. He's like a son to me, the boys are nearly always together. His mom and I refer to ourselves when we call as "your son's other mother."

I can't just take him in and leave his family to starve. They are all hard-working folks, even his sister (18) works hard, but Grandma's medical bills have sapped them financially and her dementia has sapped them emotionally.

I didn't realize I had made that decision subconsciously until I read your post.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Ezmerelda said:


> On a similar note, I realized as I read your post that I am no longer just prepping for my immediate family, but for the family of my son's best friend. He's like a son to me, the boys are nearly always together. His mom and I refer to ourselves when we call as "your son's other mother."
> 
> I can't just take him in and leave his family to starve. They are all hard-working folks, even his sister (18) works hard, but Grandma's medical bills have sapped them financially and her dementia has sapped them emotionally.
> 
> I didn't realize I had made that decision subconsciously until I read your post.


When I tell people about this forum, I usually get asked what type of people are on here. Well you just reinforced what I tell them.

The folks on here are called preppers, survivalists, hoarders, crazy, doom sayers, and any number of other names both good and bad.

I describe us as Caring, loving, sensible and very moral folks that have very strong family values and a fierce love for this country and are patriots that believe in the Constitution.

You, as I said just reinforced the caring and loving description that I give and I do believe that the majority of us feel as you do about helping others.
Some of us may say that our preps are for our family only and no they would not share, but I don't really believe that.

As I have said in other posts this is MHO.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

oldvet said:


> Some of us may say that our preps are for our family only and no they would not share, but I don't really believe that.


yeah, as much as I wanna be all hardline about it, I already *know* I'm screwed when my friends/family show up @ the door :gaah:


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> yeah, as much as I wanna be all hardline about it, I already *know* I'm screwed when my friends/family show up @ the door :gaah:


Blob,

How does it feel to be a normal compassionate human being? :2thumb:
I say normal because IMO compassion and concern is normal, and being a totally selfish uncaring person is far from normal.


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## brucehylton (Nov 6, 2010)

HoppeEL4 said:


> neldarez....I agree with you, no one wants to do the manual labor jobs anymore. I have a photo of my dad, his older and younger brother, all lined up on a picking ladder. They were in their teens working in their great-aunts orchard in Omak, probably was about 1954. My uncle continued to do migrant work like that after time in the Navy. He was a confirmed bachelor, had no roots anywhere and it suited him. He did this until he could not physically anymore. We grew up near Mt. Hood, where berries were widely grown, and as kids (all six of us) were sent out every weekday in the summer, start at about 7:30 am till about 1:00 pm, picking. Kept us out of trouble and also gave us money for stuff (school clothes our parents could not afford to buy beyond the basics).
> 
> I say that all states should put a stipulation upon welfare recipients. If there is local work and they are not actively going to school (an education that furthers their chances of being self supporting only), then they should be put to work for the prevailing wage, taken off the rolls and the employer (field and orchard owners in this case) could be given tax breaks for hiring them...win, win. Besdies, even minimum wage is more than you will ever get from welfare, so why wouldn't they want it? I know, they wouldn't, and welfare rights activists (why do people on welfare have a right to rape the system and why do people support them not working?) would scream foul and claim it was "forced labor". I say it would not be forced, their choices would be work, or be booted off welfare.
> 
> Anyways, it is a sad day when people would prefer to sit on their lazy backends and take money they did not earn than to work.


The first berry field my family was asked to leave was just south of what would later be "Terrible Tommy's" in Hood River. My mother started throwing strawberries at me when I got ahead.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Blob,
> 
> How does it feel to be a normal compassionate human being? :2thumb:
> I say normal because IMO compassion and concern is normal, and being a totally selfish uncaring person is far from normal.


its nice to know I am in good company. And yeah I know the answer to my own question. I believe that and trust God will take care of it somehow. Not that I do not believve that he expects me to do my part. I think when the time comes we will each know what the right decission to make is. So I wait, prep and pray.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Fishers, Neldarez, that was his great-aunts family, his father was a Foster (from Wenatchee/Leavenworth), his mother was a Hoff from Waterville. I think if we could put more teens to work in the fields, we'd be doing our society a huge favor (get kids off the streets and keep them out of trouble).

Brucehylton, you live up in the same town my best friend does...wow this is a small world we are in here today!:wave:


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

lefty said:


> its nice to know I am in good company. Amd yeah I know the answer to my own question. I believe that and trust God will take of it somehow. Not that I do not believve that he expects me to do my part. I thnk when the time comes we will each know what the right decission to make is. So I wait, prep and pray.


 3,2,1 blastoff !  . Hope yu did'nt offend anyone,next you know we'll have to get permission to visit this thread.LOL just makign fun .
I agree with you though :2thumb:.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Ezmerelda said:


> On a similar note, I realized as I read your post that I am no longer just prepping for my immediate family, but for the family of my son's best friend. He's like a son to me, the boys are nearly always together. His mom and I refer to ourselves when we call as "your son's other mother."
> 
> I can't just take him in and leave his family to starve. They are all hard-working folks, even his sister (18) works hard, but Grandma's medical bills have sapped them financially and her dementia has sapped them emotionally.
> 
> I didn't realize I had made that decision subconsciously until I read your post.


Funny how the family grows.  But it is not true for everyone I fear. my brother in law (not a prepper by any means) has me and my family (defined as him, wife and son) against the world, every decission he makes is about "whats in it for me" if they show up I am going to have a fight with the wife I am sure, her sister and son ok the hubby not sure. Now in reality, I will say that, her sister will say then we (her and son) can't stay and the wife and MIL will scream and I will fold like wet cardboard. SO add another bucket of food.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> 3,2,1 blastoff !  . Hope yu did'nt offend anyone,next you know we'll have to get permission to visit this thread.LOL just makign fun .
> I agree with you though :2thumb:.


lol, would not be the first time.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

lefty said:


> Funny how the family grows.  But it is not true for everyone I fear. my brother in law (not a prepper by any means) has me and my family (defined as him, wife and son) against the world, every decission he makes is about "whats in it for me" if they show up I am going to have a fight with the wife I am sure, her sister and son ok the hubby not sure. Now in reality, I will say that, her sister will say then we (her and son) can't stay and the wife and MIL will scream and I will fold like wet cardboard. SO add another bucket of food.


 They all make fun of us but when their stomach knaws at their backbones we will be the first place they run to.I will work their butts off too. They have helped but not like they should. Funny thing is everyone of both sides say if something happens they know where to go,HERE! Going to be some dissapointed people is all I can say.
PS I will have to say some of them are preparing now .One called to ask what chickens were best ,the other said they bought extra food to put up .


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> They all make funh of us but when their stomacj knaws at their backbones we will be the first place they run to.I will work their butts off too. They have helped but not like they should. Funny thing is everyone of both sides say if something happens they know where to go,HERE! Going to be some dissapointed people is all I can say.


LOL the one good thing is it will be a lot of fun to see him do a hard days work.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> They all make fun of us but when their stomach knaws at their backbones we will be the first place they run to.I will work their butts off too. They have helped but not like they should. Funny thing is everyone of both sides say if something happens they know where to go,HERE! Going to be some dissapointed people is all I can say.
> PS I will have to say some of them are preparing now .One called to ask what chickens were best ,the other said they bought extra food to put up .


thats good. They are learning. of cours all you need to do is look at the news and see it is bad


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

lefty said:


> LOL the one good thing is it will be a lot of fun to see him do a hard days work.


 Yep it sure will. Only thing is sometimes its harder to show them what to do than to do it yourself.
:gaah:


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Meerkat said:


> Yep it sure will. Only thing is sometimes its harder to show them what to do than to do it yourself.
> :gaah:


Yep, that is teetotally the truth. :2thumb:
If you have to micro-manage someone, you might as well do it yourself and save time, stress, and know that it is done the way you wanted.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I only have my sister on board for now and she is a part time prepper. Everyone else thinks we are crazy but I know they will be tripping over themselves when TSHTF to get to our place. All we can do is all we can do. If they are willing to pitch in and help with the garden and critters and other chores they won't be turned away. No slackards allowed. When TSHTF life will be hard work from sunup to sundown and everyone must pull their weight. Prepare for the worst and Pray for the best.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Yep, that is teetotally the truth. :2thumb:
> If you have to micro-manage someone, you might as well do it yourself and save time, stress, and know that it is done the way you wanted.


LOL no one said that it would be an important job. Could be moving that pile of dirt from one side of the yard to the other. IF it keeps him out of my way then it is important tough :2thumb:


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lefty said:


> LOL no one said that it would be an important job. Could be moving that pile of dirt from one side of the yard to the other. IF it keeps him out of my way then it is important tough :2thumb:


Yea, but then you have to explain to this "brain surgeon" why you want the dirt moved. :gaah:


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

First I want to thank everyone on this thread. I do not spend much time here, but I do try to look at "today's posts" as often as possible. I am sitting here with tears in my eyes reading this thread. This thread really sums up everything for me. It is what it is, we will follow our hearts, and it will be what it will be. Thank you all so much for sharing your thoughts.

I am new. Very new. If it fell apart tomorrow I will not be prepared. I will pile in with my family and use my skills and my knowledge to get through the best we can. But I am reading, I am planning, and I am eliminating everything I deem frivolous from my life on a daily basis. I hope to be on our homestead in two years with three years supply of most things. 

Today I knew with all my heart, I will move to the homestead, I will be doing what I need to be doing, and if and when my adult children, my siblings, etc. show up at my door, I trust that they will be bringing skills and supplies that I have drummed into their heads. My only sadness is that there are a couple who live the sense of entitlement life... no running water is going to be a shock to their little systems!


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Obligated said:


> My only sadness is that there are a couple who live the sense of entitlement life... no running water is going to be a shock to their little systems!


my youngest is at college with a great scholarship and opportunity. She's decided to go live with her b/f at his moms house, claims at the end of the semester, but I doubt she'll finish the semester. You should read what she has written about us since I turned off her cell phone... pretty scary.


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

I would like to share a little bit about us;

I married at fifteen. I went from living in a city and attending a parochial school to Appalachia. Culture shock. These people would have had to have food stamps to be poor. Here are just some of the things I lived with;
-NO inside water, not even a hand pump. We lowered a bucket tied with sea grass into the well. That six dollar bucket was life or death.

-All water was heated on a wood cook stove. I brushed my teeth using a glass of water, washed and even shaved my legs out of the tiniest wash pan I had ever seen.

-All bathing was done in a wash tub in the back room after water was heated on the cook stove. 

-Laundry was done on the front porch using an old wringer washer. We would fill it from the well, wash clothes, empty the water and refill then rinse. Hang clothes OVER the line around the porch. There were no clothes pins. 

-One light bulb and electric outlet was in the middle of the ceiling and everything was run to it as needed. 

-No tv. The boys ran old scavanged wiring was hooked onto a wire coat hanger and put in a tree up the top of the hill. The wire was then run to the porch in an attempt to get radio reception.

-ALL heat was from the grates; the boys would go out looking for coal that had fallen from the trucks or walk to a strip mine area and take what they could find. Sometimes they took wood from the front porch to put in the grates.

- every night we would dig potatoes and pick beans for dinner. Same meals over and over...the only deviation was if my ex father in law helped butcher a hog and brought in the head for his family.

-The grocery list was always the same; 50 lb. bag of soup beans. 25 lb can lard, 50 lb bag of flour, 25 lb bag of corn meal. That's it there ain't no more!

I never thought I would feel blessed for having lived through that. But I do.


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

I tried to post but a quick message said the moderator had to approve. That had not happened before. Have I done something incorrectly?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Obligated said:


> I tried to post but a quick message said the moderator had to approve. That had not happened before. Have I done something incorrectly?


As per the automated welcome message, it is our BOT that approves or disapproves messages until it learns your writing style. I can over-ride that by approving the posts manually.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

oldvet said:


> Yea, but then you have to explain to this "brain surgeon" why you want the dirt moved. :gaah:


My house, my food my rules, he gets the same explaination my son gets cause I said so, (was good enough for me) he don't like it then he doesn't have to stay, I know I will have to let him in, I do not have to make it easy. :2thumb:


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Obligated said:


> I would like to share a little bit about us;
> 
> I married at fifteen. I went from living in a city and attending a parochial school to Appalachia. Culture shock. These people would have had to have food stamps to be poor. Here are just some of the things I lived with;
> -NO inside water, not even a hand pump. We lowered a bucket tied with sea grass into the well. That six dollar bucket was life or death.
> ...


welcome, And yes youre blessed with a strength and work ethic that few have today, My grandfather was form appalachian Ky, and I spent some time there as a kid.

Getting prepped is as much mental as physical, step by step do what you can. And remember load heavy and pray often.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lefty said:


> My house, my food my rules, he gets the same explaination my son gets cause I said so, (was good enough for me) he don't like it then he doesn't have to stay, I know I will have to let him in, I do not have to make it easy. :2thumb:


:melikey: :2thumb:


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

Hi Lefty! Nice to meet someone with a similar background. 

I am 56 now and my ex sister-in-law is 55. Last night we were laughing that during that time, I had running water...she run it for me

I tell her, when I go, the door is always open for her, we will need her skill base, work ethic, and humor. It is what it is and we sometimes have to laugh.

One thing I remember is most of the real work was for the women. The boys were running the roads, "looking" for work or day labor, car parts, whatever. 

But those times are gone once it is my homestead. As posted above, my food, my rules.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

Obligated said:


> Hi Lefty! Nice to meet someone with a similar background.
> 
> I am 56 now and my ex sister-in-law is 55. Last night we were laughing that during that time, I had running water...she run it for me
> 
> ...


HI,

my time in appalachia was a couple of weeks here and ther during the summers. nothing like you, but enough t help appreciate what I had. learn all you can and share what you can.


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## neldarez (Apr 10, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> Fishers, Neldarez, that was his great-aunts family, his father was a Foster (from Wenatchee/Leavenworth), his mother was a Hoff from Waterville. I think if we could put more teens to work in the fields, we'd be doing our society a huge favor (get kids off the streets and keep them out of trouble).
> 
> Brucehylton, you live up in the same town my best friend does...wow this is a small world we are in here today!:wave:


Fishers still live here I think, many years ago Fishers food store was here, only store that gave credit. Bud Fisher was the meat cutter...I went to school with Ron Fisher............


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I am never surprised at what little we can live with, and how hard we can actually work when we need to. Our modern everyday lives had in most ways made us complacent, and even at times lazy. Having the blessing we did, to move out of town, away from the drug dealers and gangs we lived around, is still sometimes just surreal for me. We have more space and opportunity than I ever thought we would have. We need to make it work well for us.

I also believe God had placed us in this place in order to be a bit if a refuge for family when times get tougher. I do not we will be housing people, but will be allowing our place, the land it's on, to become a place for providing sustenance when everyone else realizes they better dig and plant to eat. I know even the effort for a small garden plot was a bit of a shock to us, and know it will be to many sister-in-laws, sister, brothers and especially the nieces. Hopefully everyone will adapt and make use of it when the time comes that they need it.


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