# Emp attack



## gabedelgado (Feb 23, 2013)

How are you preparing for what could possibly an EMP attack from NK? Or if there was an attack, what would your first steps be? How do you think you'd find our about this attack?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

The lights don't work.


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## Trinka (Feb 16, 2013)

I think the way we'd find out here is the planes crashing and the first thing we'd be doing is dodging that........

and then I'd have to have a short cry....and then get the 4 wheelers and go pick up the grand kids......and head back home..


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## gabedelgado (Feb 23, 2013)

swjohnsey said:


> The lights don't work.


So if you're lights don't work, the first thing god assume is that there has been a EMP attack...
Nice


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## gabedelgado (Feb 23, 2013)

Trinka said:


> I think the way we'd find out here is the planes crashing and the first thing we'd be doing is dodging that........
> 
> and then I'd have to have a short cry....and then get the 4 wheelers and go pick up the grand kids......and head back home..


Well i sure hope as with anything else we get a warning sign of some sort prior to all that chaos.


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## rf197 (Jul 19, 2009)

gabedelgado said:


> Well i sure hope as with anything else we get a warning sign of some sort prior to all that chaos.


When the sky lights up and you feel a bit warm you have been warned


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

The thing that would tell me that this is an EMP attack would be my phone not working in addition to a power outage. If at home when it happens, the first thing I'd do is get my neighbor, and and start coordinating. Then I'd try to get my BOV started and go and grab my mother and my aunts and bring them back to my place. After that, I'd try hitting the stores closest to my house to stock up as much as I could before panic sets in among the general populous and the shelves are cleared. 

After that, my neighbor and I would watch to see how the sheep are reacting. If it looks like it was going to get really bad, we'd head for a lake near here where I have some land and hunker down.


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## faithmarie (Oct 18, 2008)

Is it one part on a car that gets fried? Or a bunch.. can you keep a spare part for your car in a faraday cage and replace it if that happened? And does a generator get fried.. because you can pull start most generators.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

faithmarie said:


> Is it one part on a car that gets fried? Or a bunch.. can you keep a spare part for your car in a faraday cage and replace it if that happened? And does a generator get fried.. because you can pull start most generators.


well... that's a great question.. or questions I should say. Car parts depend on the make and model, and the older the car, the less parts you should need. For my 1991 GMC Jimmy, I'm getting a backup ECU (Fuel injection computer), distributor, starter, alternator, and ignition module. I'll keep them in a faraday cage/box and hope for the best.

In the early 60's.. I think it was 62, there was a Nuke test called Starfish Prime. It was in response to a russian EMP test high in the atmosphere... That test fried their diesel generators. Those generators had zero electronics on them. I'll have to go search for that article, but the implications of that test are pretty freaking scary!

Edited to add:

From THIS article...

It was Test 184 that caused most of the problems with the civilian infrastructure in Kazakhstan. Other tests, though, apparently caused some problems -- such as those experienced with military diesel generators. The diesel generator problems usually occurred some time after the detonations due to dielectric breakdown in the generator windings.
*snip*

If the United States W49 warhead used for the Starfish Prime test had been used in Test 184, the E3 component would have been more than 5000 nT/min in the Karagandy region. According to recent studies, a disturbance in the present-day United States of 4800 nT/min would likely damage about 365 large transformers in the U.S. power grid, and would leave about 40 percent of the U.S. population without electrical power for as long as 4 to 10 years due to the loss of large transformers that would have to be custom-built in other countries. 

So if that was in the early 60's... imagine what is possible today?


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## faithmarie (Oct 18, 2008)

Thank you... That is a lot of parts.... They are expensive parts also... yes? 
That is not good about the generator ... Do you know if mylar bags are good for EMP protection... I would put them in the bag and then in a faraday cage..


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

gabedelgado said:


> How are you preparing for what could possibly an EMP attack from NK?


For now, I have accepted the fact that I cannot be prepared for an EMP attack...that is, assuming it is as bad as some say it can be...a "One Second After" effect. I accept that without a piece of land with a spring, hand pump well, or flowing water (without too many people dumping upstream), I and my family may not make it.

So, for now, until I can purchase land on which I have a spring or can dig a well, I just prepare as much as I can for smaller disasters. When I have totally prepared for smaller disasters, I will move on to larger disasters like EMP.

This is fine for now, because I don't think N.Korea (or Iran) can hit us with an EMP right now. We are a few years away from that. Other disasters are more likely right now.



gabedelgado said:


> Or if there was an attack, what would your first steps be?


First steps:
Family Consolidation: Specific actions will vary depending on where we are at the moment of the EMP.
Some family I will never see again if they are too far away.
If I am far away (e.g., business trip), I will start walking immediately. It may take months, but I will die trying to get back home to my family.
But, those who are nearby need to be (a) accounted for, (b) informed of the situation, and (c) given tasks as soon as possible.

Water: Fill every container I can with water before the water pressure drops. Fill the bathtubs. Inflate and fill that kiddie pool if possible. Regardless, it won't be enough.
Pre-panic Supplies:
Acquire supplies before the general panic sets in. There will be a time when people will sit around waiting for the authorities to "turn the power back on." That is the time to acquire supplies. The pre-panic supply acquisition window will not stay open long. The prep for this step is to make sure you have cash on hand. And you want your neighbors to be gathering supplies at this point as well...before everyone else figures it out. So...
Inform the neighbors of the magnitude of the situation. Make note of those neighbors who already seem to understand the risk or who immediately understand the risk. Those neighbors will be leaders later, and they may be less of a threat if they have already prepared somewhat.

Initial Panic Actions: While everyone else panics and tries to do their supply acquisition, work on home security and rain water collection.
Post-panic Actions:
Go immediately into starvation mode: Ration food immediately, and learn not to waste even a drop of water or a single morsel of food. Plates get licked clean. Kids need to learn that eating is no longer something to enjoy, or something to be done when they feel like it. It is now a life or death matter.
Kids need to know it is time to grow up. They now will have responsibilities normally reserved for adults in our (formerly) modern society. Their family now relies on _their_ help for survival. They need to learn how to shoot. They will have to haul water. They will have to walk...a lot. Those iTouches and iPhones are now useless...as far as recreation, it is back to board games, reading and playing musical instruments.
Inventory every item in the home. You never know what you might need.
Consider organizing a neighborhood government if you live in a neighborhood. If you live in a city, it will get bad, and you may want to bug out. If you live in the suburbs, it will also get bad, and you will have to prepare for migratory violence. If you live in a rural area, thank your lucky stars...but everything is relative, and it won't be a walk in the park for anyone.
Try to survive the various waves of deaths (lack of medicines, water riots, starvation, and anarchic violence).


That is all off the top of my head. Any other ideas?



gabedelgado said:


> How do you think you'd find our about this attack?


Notice everyone standing in the road wondering why their cars don't work. Battery powered electronics don't work. Planes crashing.

Having said all that, I know that many people don't believe that EMP effects will be as bad as some say. Who knows. I offered the above based on the worst case scenario, the "One Second After" scenario, which I figured you were thinking about. If it turns out to be less harmful, well, that would be good news. But the best news would be to find out that the Departments of Homeland Security and Defense are ready to oppose this threat and prevent it from happening.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

From what little I have read, I doubt the giverment will do anything to prevent damage. IIRC, NASA said we should shut down the electric grid if a solar flare promises to create a damaging pulse. Politicians waffled about that, afraid that if they were wrong, the political fallout from the power disruption would be terrible. In such a situation, I doubt if any of TPTB could find their butts with both hands and a flashlight at midday. I would have to assume there is no help coming from that quarter.

Let's fervently hope I am wrong about that.

How do I figure it out?
-Power is off.
-Cell phone is dead.
-TV and radios (those that were not damaged), have no signal.
-Most traffic stops on the road, with many accidents.
-Planes crash. 
-Smoke from fires is visible.
-People come to the door asking to use the phone because their car quit, and their cell phone is dead. (Give them a bottle of water and tell them to start walking home, because there is no other way.)

How to deal with it? Depends on what works around our area.

-If it is just the grid that is down due to far-off damage, but vehicles still work (or some of them), then a trip to the local small town stores might be in order. If there appears to be any disturbance there, go directly home. ( NOTE: This is a judgment call. If there are dead cars all over the highway and people wandering about, better stay home.)
-Contact our adult children, if possible, and assure they understand what is going on. They can take it from there. 
-Talk to our farm neighbors and assure they understand what happened so they can take appropriate steps to preserve their food, etc.. Offer cooperation with them in general terms. 
-Go home to take care of business. String some barbed wire fencing, fire up the genny until we can preserve what food is in the freezer, use the wood stove to do the canning. Loan the generator to neighbors as possible to preserve their food supply until they get it canned. Well fed neighbors are a good thing.
-Put up some stored solar panels, and get minimal power going.
-Take care of the garden, as needed. Plant more of whatever is appropriate at the time. 
-Dig into my store of candle wax and begin pouring taper candles, when I'm not needed for anything else. 
-Assist neighbors as I can, trying to educate them to the new reality to the best of my ability.

I have given this a lot of thought, and put together a fiction novel around the idea, looking at how life might evolve. It is an in-depth look at this situation, taking the characters from an "old normal" life up to a major economic crisis that results in war and grid-down. You can read it HERE: http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f55/dirty-money-12414/ Comments would be appreciated.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

machinist said:


> From what little I have read, I doubt the giverment will do anything to prevent damage. IIRC, NASA said we should shut down the electric grid if a solar flare promises to create a damaging pulse. Politicians waffled about that, afraid that if they were wrong, the political fallout from the power disruption would be terrible. In such a situation, I doubt if any of TPTB could find their butts with both hands and a flashlight at midday. I would have to assume there is no help coming from that quarter.
> 
> Let's fervently hope I am wrong about that.
> 
> ...


Those of us living in community neighborhoods wouldn't be able to do many of those things after the EMP/solar flare blackout...it would be jeopardizing our own survival for others to know we have the means to survive and they don't...


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## Trinka (Feb 16, 2013)

db2469 said:


> Those of us living in community neighborhoods wouldn't be able to do many of those things after the EMP/solar flare blackout...it would be jeopardizing our own survival for others to know we have the means to survive and they don't...


This is why I'm soooooo glad we do NOT live in town....or city...but smack dab in the middle of farm country...

Our family all live with in an hour of each other...

My only problem right now is...our house burnt 2 yrs ago...and we now live in the boss' house (farm) and the grand kids live about 20 minutes away...we have a little over 7 acres...where the kids are...hand dug well along with the reg well...3 outbuildings, did have 2 houses and 30 ft camping trailer...that is there...

Here we have a 4 bdrm house, spring in the yard and acres of land around us that belong to the boss (farm)...so I'm in a dither on whether to move back to our home or to move the kids here....our son is already here since he lived in the house that burnt at the time....so we have 3 gr kids and dd and her hubby to bring or us go to them.....


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## Trinka (Feb 16, 2013)

Oh, then my brother and sil live 5 min from where the kids do

My mom and sis live about 10 min from where the kids do...

Oops and none of this has anything to do with EMP....sorry..


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

db2469,

I tend to forget that our community is so different than where most people live. We are smack in the middle of farm country where self reliance is a way of life. Our neighbors have been friends and customers in our farm repair shop for many years. We have cooperative relationships worked out that I value highly. Some of those relationships go back 50 years or more. If we still lived in a typical city or suburb, I would see things very differently. As it is, we know who we can count on, and for what. 

To regain this situation where my wife and I grew up, about 30-odd years ago we upended our life near a city and moved back here where we know people and their families, in some cases for 3 generations. I found a new job, bought place in the country. Raised our kids here, so THEY know everybody, too, and all of us have been in business here of one sort or another since 1978. It's very different from city and suburban life today.

So, our first actions are the same as they were when a tornado destroyed several small towns in the area last year. (Like the F5 that wiped out Henryville, IN.) Folks roll up their sleeves and get busy. I like it. A lot. An EMP situation would only change the needs we have to meet, but meet them we would.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

From that and from previous descriptions of your place, it sounds ideal...I'd be envious if I was the envious type! I'm almost your age and it's a somewhat daunting prospect to move into a secluded place off grid, but if the SHTF, it would probably be the only place we could survive long term...


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

We'd know when our mobiles couldn't get signal and the power went out. Problem is that happens a lot here so we wouldn't react straight away other than our usual 'power's out' drill. We've gone for longer than 24 hours with no phone signal at all and 12 hours is very common. 
We have no power, low tech alternatives to everything we need here. Would take a few days to change over and a week or two to get used to the new routine. 
Lack of communication would be the worst thing for me and the family morale as we wouldn't know what's happening to loved ones. There'd be a lot of wait and see who turns up happening and that could go on for weeks or months. Not a nice thing to go through but one we know may happen. We're not sure when we'd give up hope, probably not for 3 months or so.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Wellrounded, 

I think you folks are generally less dependent on the grid than we in the US, at least those of you who live well out of the cities. Not so in the US, where too many folks want to live out in farm country, but still live like a suburbanite. I think we would have a lot more problems than you would.

db2469,

Our community is a long way from ideal, but it was the best we knew about. There are a lot of town folks who would be a problem. I do believe that the county could get something going with local farm produce and keep a lot of folks fed, though. At least there is an excellent chance of that, and no chance whatsoever in a big city.

We are not secluded at all, but our nearest neighbors are corn fields and cows, so that helps a lot. Daughter and SIL are secluded. We could always go there if needed, but I think we may be just fine where we are.

The science on EMP has minimal experience to work with. And, results depend on many factors. I think that worst case would be a CME (coronal mass ejection) from the sun that could cover the whole continent. EMP depends on what hits and how effectively, so more stuff may survive that. We can hope, anyway.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

machinist said:


> Wellrounded,
> 
> I think you folks are generally less dependent on the grid than we in the US, at least those of you who live well out of the cities. Not so in the US, where too many folks want to live out in farm country, but still live like a suburbanite. I think we would have a lot more problems than you would.


Funny I think the same about you guys, most of the country folk I know do live like suburbanites. I only know one other farm that drinks their own milk and kills their own meat and they live 2 hours drive away. I think a great indicator for me is how impossible it is for me to buy any off grid homesteading supplies, generally if I need anything I have to get it from the US. Same goes for preserving, although there are now 3 companies in Australia selling ball jars and pressure canners (I still buy a lot from the US as it's cheaper). 
The up side for us is the low population we have and the impossible country between us and Sydney (the closest big city), Canberra is closer but it's so full of people with no connection to reality that I'm not too worried about them getting this far in a hurry. 
I do think we'll have less trouble but not because the general public have a clue. Aussies were tough, independent and knew how to look after themselves but that died in my grandfathers day. Most now walk around with a phone in one hand and a coffee in the other and have not a clue how the real world works.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

Our plan, if this happens at night, is for hubby to gab his backpack and hoof it out of town towards home. We live 25 miles away from his work, so it will take him a while. If it happens during the day I will saddle up the horses and "hoof" it to town 7 miles away where the kids are in school. No shopping trips, no stopping to chat with anybody, here and back QUICKLY. Then I have a good cry, a long prayer and just keep on keeping on.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

At night? We'd be alright, lots of candles an lamps. During the day? I have a 15 mile walk home. Hubs can get Bub from school quick-it's just 5 miles. Getting my fam here or us to BOL will be a challenge (if it happens soon) we don't have an EMP proof vehicle yet (still researching on which ones wld survive). 

If my mother does not survive the blast, we wld have to conduct her funeral (already bought/paid for) first. Gonna be a long haul up the mountain to the cemetery, but we've done it before when vehicle cldnt make it up the road due to weather. 

Then it's hunker down and game on.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

Tacitus said:


> And you want your neighbors to be gathering supplies at this point as well...before everyone else figures it out. So...
> [*]Inform the neighbors of the magnitude of the situation. Make note of those neighbors who already seem to understand the risk or who immediately understand the risk. Those neighbors will be leaders later, and they may be less of a threat if they have already prepared somewhat.





Tacitus said:


> That is all off the top of my head. Any other ideas?


If you're going to be interacting with your neighbors after an emp event and some of them might not have much if anything at all in the way of supplies, here's a suggestion for them. Tell them to look through their garbage for food scraps. I know for a fact that the tops of onions that we would normally throw away after cutting it from the rest of the onion can be dried and planted. It will sprout if there's enough of it intact and the growing conditions are right. It's possible that the same can be done with the tops of carrots, beets, etc.,. Celery stalk bottoms that are still moist might grow again if they are cleaned off and set in water. Potatoes could be cut into squares for seed. Dried beans might sprout if planted and non gmo. They can also do this with some of their food that hasn't been eaten already. If the people act quickly enough, they might be able to salvage a renewable source of food from their scraps.


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