# Are we mixing fiction with reality?



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

I'm sure this will generate some not so favorable barbs towards me, but here goes, anyway.

When I began preparing years ago I thought I was just using good 'ol common sense. Then later I was labeled as a "survivalist". Now I'm labeled as a "prepper". Doesn't really matter in the scheme of things I don't suppose.

I have visited dozens of sites like this. I often stayed a while before moving on or may have maintained an interesting site "bookmarked" and re-visited occasionally.

In every case, the topic centered around "SHTF", "WTSHTF", and often, 'TEOTWAWKI". Thats understandable. Its an interesting topic sure to stimulate the imagination. I guess thats the subject of my post here - the imagination part.

The acronym "SHTF" has now taken on the meaning of a zombie apocalypse, or a "Mad Max" world. In reality, a lot of people experience a SHTF event and acquaintances, even a neighbor, might not see it. It could be financial, health, a death, a divorce... 

Another thing, a national SHTF event has been ongoing for some time, only inn slow motion. If anyone is looking for some overnight, instantaneous event, you probably will be disappointed. I say "probably" simply because it is possible. But I don't believe likely.

I believe in Occum's Razor. If you are not familiar with that principle it basically states that most often the simplest explanation is the correct one. To me that translates into this - the most likely scenario is probably the correct one. So, what is most likely?

I would say that the most likely scenario that will occur regarding SHTF is an economic collapse globally that results in a Great Depression-like environment that we will have to deal with for at least five years, maybe a little longer. Consumer goods will be very expensive if available at all. Most of the conveniences and "creature comforts" we have become accustomed to, like fresh fruit and vegetable even out of season will disappear. Rationing is a good possibility for fuel, if you can afford it. Bartering will be commonplace for products and services. Bankruptcies and unemployment will skyrocket, as will property crimes. Our society will become very frugal and threadbare, but we will survive it.

I have no idea what sort of system will emerge out the other side, but there will be one. I just don't believe for a moment that cannibal zombies will be much of a concern.

So, if you don't already have a closet full of AK47s and cases of ammo, I wouldn't worry too much. A modest means of protection will likely be enough. A means of feeding yourself and family to help lessen the sting of high prices or shortages as well as a means of barter may be all that is needed. And if I'm wrong? Well, none of us have the time, energy, or money to prepare for everything. We will do the best we can... like always.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

I live in a highly union environment. This has led to the children of union laborer's feeling they are entitled to the same level of "stuff" and will typically take it instead of earning it. I'm seeing a huge increase in people depending on the "system" to support them. Why work at all, when you can get the "system" to support you?

If there is a financial collapse, these people will have nowhere to go for food, and are willing to take what ever they need. Also, there is a whole major segment of society that have absolutely no idea how to do ANYTHING, including cooking their food.

I would highly recommend reading the thread on the real life apocalypse that was presented by the Bosnia survivor. Also, watch After Armageddon, it very nicely lays out what happens after SHTF.

I said it before, if this collapses, we will fall back a couple of centuries. People during the depression still had the ability to survive and were not all about entitlement.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree that the most likely scenario is economic collapse, but I do think that things COULD happen very quickly, depending on the catalyst.

If its say the collapse of the Euro, starting with Greece then extending to the rest of the Eurozone, then it MAY take a few weeks to hit us here. I guess its theoretically possible that a Euro collapse could actually benefit us as the rest of the world shifts more of its assets into dollars from the Euro. Possible, but seems unlikely.

If its brought on by the BRIC nations, OPEC, or some similar international effort/congolmeration deciding to stop using the dollar as the reserve currency, things would get real ugly real fast. If China, Russia and India (Brazil seems more unlikely than the rest to participate just because of proximity) decide overnight to get off the dollar, it would kill it just as fast. If such a massive devaluation happened in that way, it would shock the system into a panic. Along the same lines, if China actually decided to stop buying our debt overnight, we get the same instant outcome.

These two scenarios COULD create the the zombie hordes everyone loves to talk about. Who doesnt love zombies? Certainly the second scenario could easily cause panic in the streets, massive devaluation/inflation and shortages. This would assumedly last for months at the very least, but more likely years, before we could get back to some semblance of normalcy. If that actually happened, who would feed all the people that couldnt get to the store quick enough, who cant afford to feed themselves, assumedly at the very least 50 million people, but most likely VERY many more than that? There is your instant zombie horde.

I certainly hope that there will be a definite catalyst to point to, and say "Oh boy, thats it, its coming, and I better get ready" and the wheels stay on the bus. A lot of us think its already happening, but who really knows?

Even the most likely scenario you present would create some very ugly circumstances, and that could come about very quickly.
I am not disagreeing with you. I hope you are correct, that everything proceeds in a somewhat orderly manner. Your line of thinking (assuming we are prepared for such a scenario) is probably better for everyones sanity and well being.

But as a lot of people here say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

The difference between The Great Depression and an economic collapse now is the Entitlement Mentality. People now think they are entitled to whatever they want and I believe they will take it whenever they get the chance.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

I don't think of zombies. For me, the SHTF acronym means the same as what you talked about - it could be any varied event, and likely smaller and more personal than global meltdown.

We've personally had our own SHTF event when DH lost his job. And even though he's employed now, he's underemployed. That's our personal SHTF. I also think there will be a country-wide economic collapse of at least some strength - the dollar is just too vulnerable - as are many, many currencies of the world. They're all propped up like a house of cards. So we try to prepare for unfathomable inflation(foodstuffs and necessities)/deflation(durable goods and real estate) - can we survive without buying anything for a few years? That's what I think of when I think of 'SHTF'.

All that said, I do see how people act when they get into mobs, and it concerns me. I've never seen any zombie shows, don't know anything about them. But I've seen mobs, and I've seen how an unbelievable percentage of our population think they deserve what someone else has worked for. 

So even though I don't personally think of zombies when I think SHTF, maybe I should...


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

kejmack said:


> The difference between The Great Depression and an economic collapse now is the Entitlement Mentality. People now think they are entitled to whatever they want and I believe they will take it whenever they get the chance.


Yep. Entitlement mentality combined with a learned helplessness/dependency. :gaah:


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

kejmack said:


> The difference between The Great Depression and an economic collapse now is the Entitlement Mentality. People now think they are entitled to whatever they want and I believe they will take it whenever they get the chance.


I spent a couple hours last night while visiting a couple friends mending a comforter that they were throwing away with a needle & thread, much to the surprise of my friends' mom (who doesn't know how to do even simple sewing!  )

the loss of what I perceive to be *basic skills* in our highly specialized/pigeon-holed 'throw away' society is pretty widespread and IMHO an intentional result of a 'false shepherding' by TPTB... of course I could just be :nuts:


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

My best guess is that it will be an economic collapse or a major infrastructure meltdown. The worst widespread infrastructure meltdown that I have experienced was in August of ‘03. That is when the electric grid was down all over the eastern seaboard and into the Midwest.

I was shocked at how ill prepared neighbors were for this minor set back. People were at a complete loss for how to provide for themselves. A simple matter of making hot coffee was a hardship to them. I made about 1 gallon of “cowboy coffee” first thing in the morning, poured a cup O’joe, and went for my morning walk. Neighbors wanted to know how I had coffee. A very simple matter but they were confused. If I were a ruthless person coffee could have gone for 5 bucks a cup. Instead, I choose to help them out and use this as a teachable moment.

If a short term power failure can cause this much consternation; how bad will it become if this were a permanent situation? If the economy went into hyper inflation how long do you think these sheeple will last before they begin to react to the stimuli rather than gather information and act upon it. I am well prepared to care for my family but I fear the sheeples stupidity will be problematic. I live in an area were the populace feels that they are “entitled” to the property of others.

If Uncle Sugar aint providing (redistribution of wealth) to what extremes will they go to? Work to provide for themselves (highly unlikely scenario) or take the easy route and appropriate my stores. I am working with some of my neighbors to form some loose alliances to assist me when the problem occurs. My family situation requires that I stay in place (My elderly parents, special needs grandchild are staying with us and my wife is now undergoing chemo) to be near medical facilities. I pray that I will not have to resort to violence to save my family. I do not know how I can deal with that scenario. My first family is grown and gone but I still have two kids at home and two in school. I do not want them to be exposed to the ravages of war.

I have extra stores of rice, beans, lentils and spices to use as barter or to buy assistance if needed. This may be the only way I can survive an economic collapse. I am not able to do everything that will be needed to keep my family safe and secure. I do not know what the “zombies” are. I hear people talking of the zombie apocalypse but I have no clue. 

Back to your main topic. I think I know what is coming but I have tried to prepare for other instances. I built a faraday cage in the shed for EMP protection. In the cage I have an electronic control module for two of the vehicles, spare alternators, generators, an old computer, spare dvd player and solar control panel among other things. I have full face respirators for the possibility of a dirty bomb. Spare fuel for an oil embargo. Food, water, heat and fuel will go a long way in keeping my standard of living the same. 

I have a complete set of tools and resources to build, repair or design almost anything we will need. I just completed a class for building using only wooden joints for construction. This is very time consuming but is probably stronger than conventional construction methods. My project was to construct a barrel stand. We have 9 30 gallon barrels stored horizontally in the rack that I built. The rack got stronger as weight was applied. This gives us a total of about 225 gallons of stored water (I estimate a 5 gallon void at the top of each barrel).

I can only guess at the future. I have never had any answers. So let’s agree to vary greatly in our assumptions for the future. Being on this forum has opened my eyes to many different possibilities. Some scenarios seem quite far fetched but plausible. Knowledge is the only thing they can’t tax or take away from us.

We are Americans. We have always found solutions to problems. We will continue to support the underdog, invent new ideas, solve problems and best any situation placed before us. We will eventually get our Country back on track and regain our prominence in the world. WE BEEZ DA BESTEST.


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## Sourdough (May 22, 2010)

Well be a good thread, I agree with the original post.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes, there is that entitlement mentality, and it will be a problem in some areas. Most of those folks are the same as those who can't do for themselves... even make coffee when the power is out and someone pointed out. But, I also know a lot of skilled folks that could make damn near anything with hardly nothing. I think there will be ample opportunity for teachable moments, and if ever we have that opportunity to show someone how something is done, we should take advantage of it. Teach the person to fish, so to speak so they then can help themselves.

I weary of being the pessimist. I have to honestly admit that it gets me down, and life is just too short for that. I think that once whatever does occur we will look back once its over and see that it caused a lot of people to grow up and be responsible for themselves because they had to. Maybe we will emerge a better society for it. I hope so.


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

Fear is the enemy! Both our own and the other guys!


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Yesterday we had our annual family meet up at my sisters place for her 2 youngest kids birthday party.
while there I was in the kitchen making the drinks and i noticed her cupboards- I reckon she has maybe a weeks worth of food stored, with 3 kids.
when I commented on this she was a bit confused, 'I only live 5 min walk from a supermarket'.
when i said what I had in my cupboards (only around a month, but its growing) she, and my mum asked if I knew something they didnt, I quote ' is there a new cold war coming?'
I tried to explain about supply, which my mum agreed with, she goes on the road with my dad who is a truck driver.

I foresee the main problem being economic, my country is currently trying to get a referendum to let the public vote on whether we should stay in the EU.
the ramifications from this are huge, although less hassle from central govt in europe would be nice, we will have overnight price hikes- our 'entitlement class' will be howling for more handouts to afford food (these same people who cant feed their kids, but can smoke & drink, have sat tv etc) 

I come across as a bit negative at work, but, since I have started talking about it, some of my colleagues appear to have sat up and started to think.


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## dahur (Dec 18, 2009)

I also agree with the O.P. in that an major economic crisis is on the horizon.


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## Beeorganic (Oct 11, 2011)

Personally, I don't believe it matters what scenario transpires overall. There are only three options for all of them- Adapt, migrate, or die.

Take this given senario of an economic collapse that is equal to (or slightly greater than) The Great Depression of the 1930's, lasting 3 to 5 years. I tend to believe this is the easiest of all scenarios to plan and prepare for (at least for me). There being a well documented history of it and people alive (e.g. my 101 year old grandmother) to share their personal experiences on how she and her family coped. "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Incidently, for those who share the above mentioned belief there is a fantastic book that conveys personal stories of what people in the US did during that time called "We had everything but Money (Priceless memories of the Great Depression)" ISBN 0-89821-099-2.

"I would say that the most likely scenario that will occur regarding SHTF is an economic collapse globally that results in a Great Depression-like environment that we will have to deal with for at least five years, maybe a little longer. Consumer goods will be very expensive if available at all. Most of the conveniences and "creature comforts" we have become accustomed to, like fresh fruit and vegetable even out of season will disappear. Rationing is a good possibility for fuel, if you can afford it. Bartering will be commonplace for products and services. Bankruptcies and unemployment will skyrocket, as will property crimes. Our society will become very frugal and threadbare, but we will survive it."

With each individual scenario a poster presents, I make an effort to compare it with my current resources on hand. This one (with no radical variables) appears pretty straight forward. Have to eat- plant a garden, fruit bearing bushes/trees. Have small livestock. Can, dehydrate, preserve the harvest. Going to have to keep warm in the winter- have a wood burning stove (in the belief Kerosene will either be rationed or non-existent). What I believe is problematic for others though is- location, location, location (as in not having enough space to grow crops or have small livestock).

As per the "zombies". In my reading, it appears people were vastly different during The Great Depression. They (the poor) had a certain pride, character, and moral fiber that doesn't seem to exist today. There are kids that have been shot and killed over a pair of Air Jordan tennis shoes in comparison to my grandfather who was able to take his 22 cal. rifle to school to hunt rabbits before, at recess, and after school in the 6th grade with no issues. Today one can be killed just for looking at someone the wrong way or wearing the wrong type of clothing. Virtually unheard of back during The Great Depression. In regards to current day "zombies", I believe planning on protecting what you have is prudent and perhaps an absolute necessity- depending on the scope and magnitude of the event. In regards to bankruptcies, I take the "You can't get blood out of a stone" philosophy. I tend to believe that more will worry about more important things other than a credit rating or being considered a poor loan risk. In using the Cloward-Piven model of overwhelming and crashing an economy (fostering change), I believe it to be unlikely mass evictions and mass repossessions would/could transpire. An example being the Wall St. protesters and dependency of large numbers- realizing the police aren't equipped for mass arrests of large numbers.

Submitted for your perusal- 



 Edited to add- This is the show that inspired me to start thinking about prepping back when I was in high school in the 80's.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

goshengirl said:


> I also think there will be a country-wide economic collapse of at least some strength - the dollar is just too vulnerable - as are many, many currencies of the world. They're all propped up like a house of cards.


Every single currency in the entire world, including China's yuan, is either underwritten by the Dollar, or is substantially dependent on the dollar. Dollar collapses, it takes down the entire world with it.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> I weary of being the pessimist. I have to honestly admit that it gets me down, and life is just too short for that.


I couldnt agree more, but at least around here, someones got to do it. Everyone thinks Im nuts, and Im ok with that.

When we refer to 'zombies' we are referring to the hordes of people who will be without. If it comes to the point where there are massive food shortages, then the people who cant fend for themselves will become rampaging hordes, looting and pillaging everything they can to survive.
Mobs of people with one thing on their minds. (BRAAIIINS! )

Survival, by any means necessary.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

There's so much we don't know. That's why even the best scenarios will be incomplete. I remember reading, "The Coming Economic Earthquake" by Larry Burkett. He had it right about government debt but he totally missed the fact that the Fed will print money until the dollar is worthless.

We live in a much different society than 100 years ago. Back then farmers were maybe 75% of the population. Nobody had electricity. People were dependent on wood or kerosene for cooking and heating. People had wells. A financial collapse wouldn't have led to starvation, people dying of thirst, and people freezing to death in the winter like it would now.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Immolatus said:


> I couldnt agree more, but at least around here, someones got to do it. Everyone thinks Im nuts, and Im ok with that.
> 
> When we refer to 'zombies' we are referring to the hordes of people who will be without. If it comes to the point where there are massive food shortages, then the people who cant fend for themselves will become rampaging hordes, looting and pillaging everything they can to survive.
> Mobs of people with one thing on their minds. (BRAAIIINS! )
> ...


That is basically what I forsee happening, When the non-prepared masses realize that the food stores are out of everything and won't be restocking, they will at first ask, then beg, then attempt to take what you have by force.

In a mob situation the odds are they will be whiped up into a frenzy and they will take what they want by any means including murder.

Now the big question comes: What do you try to protect, your food or your family?

I know what my answer is.

What would you do?

Dan


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## VOICEOFSAM (Mar 12, 2011)

After reading all these comments I'm glad to know I'm not the only "nutcase" (better half's comment) . But I have come to the conclusion that a lot of people are learning disabled. They can't learn from the past, so that makes them unable to look to the future. These are the ones that get a kick out of making fun of you because they think they are much smarter than you. Just ask them, they will tell you how much. And then there are those who are just plain scared of what's to come so they bury their heads in the sand. Hey, out of sight out of mind. So to them, all you are doing is trying to frighten them by suggesting they prepare for the unknown. 
I never claimed to be "smarter than the average bear" or am I trying to put "the fear" in anyone. I don't have a clue whats going to happen in the coming years! And that is FACT!!!!!! All I can go by is, what I read in the head lines, what I watch on TV, what I remember from history class and from sunday school, what I learned from my parents and grandparents, and from over half a century of my personal life. So when I started crunching the numbers they seem to be adding up to something on the horizon. I can"t finish be cause all the numbers aren't in yet.
Could it be natural or man made,could it be big or small, could it be just one event or could it be many events happening one after another or all happening together? If I had the answer to these questions, I would have won the lottery last night. 
The one fact I do know is when that "something" does happen we'll be grateful that we were somewhat prepared


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I feel bad for all the people who are unprepared. I've tried talking to a number of people. Most think I'm crazy. Others believe something bad is coming but they're not prepping. I think when it hits the fan I'll have a lot of people knocking on my door but I'm not going to answer it. I'm not even going to look to see who it is. I don't think I could turn away someone who wants me to take in their child. So I'm not going to face anybody and risk not being able to say no.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Both my parents experienced the Great Depression. My father and his family were city dwellers, although a small city. His parents, my grandparents, scrapped along however they could. My city had Craddock & Terry Shoe Corp., and there were numerous milling companies back then. Although jobs were scarce, they could be had. My grandfather was gassed fighting with Black Jack Pershing in WWI and suffered because of it the remainder of his life, suffering with bouts of respiratory illnesses. The kids, my father and his brother and their sisters, picked up coal along the RR tracks that fell from passing coal trains to help heat the house. My father made rabbit snares, picked up the occasional odd job and did whatever else they could to help the family. He has told me on numerous occasions about eating biscuits and milk gravy for three meals a day.

My mother came from a farm family. Contrary to what you might think, they were not able to supply all their needs from farming. Markets were volatile. Nothing was guaranteed. My grandfather ended up going to work for the CCC, the make work project implemented by Roosevelt. He worked on building Camp Pickett in Virginia while others built the Blue Ridge Parkway and other public projects. My grandmother grew vegetables, kept chickens, and did any outside work that became available. Everyone did whatever they could to get by. I believe we will experience this again, and maybe soon. But as others has correctly pointed out, the metal of which people today are made of is not what it was back in 1929. Metro areas will suffer most because of it.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I do what I do simply because I sense something gaining on me , Old age ? Zombies? nukes? does it matter ? really? trouble is trouble.... a problem to be dealt with.

So standing around watching over my shoulder won't solve the problems whatever their name..

Many years ago I was married to an LDS girl , and we had a garden which she took care of with small help from me , but when she started canning I got interested, and I helped , I still remember the thrill of hearing the "Ping" of a jar sealing ! lol..I was like a kid..

I remember going into the pantry I had built for her and looking at shelf after shelf filled with jars of food that "We" did ( after I woke up lol) I had such a wonderful feeling of safety... accomplishment .. and that my family was protected .. It's a wonderful feeling .kinda like when I looked at the fire wood , all stacked neatly and ready to keep us warm , I guess that's when the bug bit me , I came home one day with 6 50 lb bags of different kinds of beans, bought from some farm boys from Idaho , we put them up in 5 gal buckets, not knowing any better I put bunches of crackers on top before I sealed them , that was in 1976 , I finished the 5th bucket in 02, they were fine , the crackers weren't crisp but they weren't crumbly..and tasted ok.. the last bucket was Great Northern's which I never cared for so I gave them to some friends...

So..prepping is ok with me I don't need to give the reason a name , just having beats the hell out of not having . that's good nuff for me..

I'm sitting here looking at 2 50 lb bags of rice and 50 lbs of pintos that need to be put in buckets ..also a 40 lb box of dehydrated carrots that are sealed in Mylar wine bags bought from a member !!

On the first I will get some more stuff to seal away , when I was asked why I still had all my sugar and salt and buckets of grain from Y2K..I just smiled and said....Hey ! Y3K is coming yanno !! most don't smile or laugh..

Following my own advice in another thread I will also pick up 500 rounds of CCI Minimag 22 LR ammo because it functions every time , unlike the bulk pack stuff from WM ..

I see no Red Dawn , Zombie attack, or any of the other stuff , I just know that as I said ...

Somethings gaining on all of us so it behooves all of us to do what we can within our means.. or ..not.

You're choice.. *


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## Beeorganic (Oct 11, 2011)

partdeux said:


> Every single currency in the entire world, including China's yuan, is either underwritten by the Dollar, or is substantially dependent on the dollar. Dollar collapses, it takes down the entire world with it.


And considering the US Dollar is a fiat currency back by nothing (i.e. gold)other than perception to begin with- it reminds of a Dorito's commercial (the one with Jay Leno saying "Eat all you want... we'll just make more"). "Spend all you want... we'll just print more".


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

A "prepper" is he who is getting ready for what is to come.....and a "survivalist" is he who wants to survive and will try to steal from the prepper.......but.........don't be worry about it, a BIGGGGGG war is about to come and many here will not have to worry about the future, King Obama already said that he is getting ready to draft 1'000,000 civilians, part of them for internal security in the US and the rest for overseas duty......by the way this will be a one way ticket.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

My question is "have we changed??"

I go to the fridg to get what's in it--add to it for dinners; a few years ago, I would have not worried about discarding one serving--since there are two of us--but now, I stretch that serving to make two.
I also use my frozen before I use canned. You all know why.
Any produce given is either used or canned..yesterday, green tomatoes became green tomato relish.
I think in terms of what things cost, what I can do with that money regarding preps vs. other things I can do.
I have a list of items and errands to run before I go now.
I was always frugal; now I'm frugal on steroids.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

I'm basing my preps partially on what I learned from a book about the Great Depression - A Nickel's Worth of Skim Milk.

The author was a child during that time. His family was one of the "lucky" ones, because they had an old well in the back yard that they were able to clean out and draw water from, so when they had to turn their water service off, they had another source of water. They also had a grape vine and a small vegetable garden. They did without electricity, and used candles and lanterns for light.

I need to read it again. For being about the Great Depression, I actually found it to be uplifting. Times were hard, but if you had some things in place, it wasn't unsurvivable.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

JayJay said:


> I was always frugal; now I'm frugal on steroids.


I want to make that into a bumper sticker, or put it up someplace as my motto - LOVE it!


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## 41south (Dec 4, 2010)

Ther are far too many good statements in this thread to copy them all, this is a great civil discussion. Too sad that our fearful leaders won't do this. 

My Mother's Father died in 83, he was almost 84 when he died. In his lifetime he had seen a lot. He lost his Father in a accident when he was eleven years old. He had the 1918 flu himself, lost several family members to it, at one point so many were sick and had died in the small mining town, there were not enough able men to build caskets and dig graves. He lived through the depression, both world wars, had two Sons in Korea, one Grandson in Nam, thankfully they all came home. He lived through many SHTF times, it was almost constant.

Back to the thread again, he always told me till the day he died, boy one day you, your generation and this country will face something terrible, could be another flu, nuclear war, another depression or a combination of them all. You best always keep enough laid back to feed your family through the next growing season, and Pray the bugs don't eat your crops. Don't borrow money on your home place, your friends will feed you, but they won't put you up. It was like he had a vision of something bad coming. I don't set and worry about it, no sense in that.

My Dad's Mother died this year at age of 95 she had lost both parents when she was nine, her older Brother was eleven. He said, one of his Grandfathers was good to him, he let him load coal in his mine when he was twelve. The {good} Grandfather told my Uncle, boy don't you park that mule under no bad top, I can get plenty of boys to load coal with, but a good mule is hard to get. The other grandparents were awful, I can't imagine how awful, if the good one thought more of a mule than his grandson.

Granny and her brothers were the same way as the other side of my family, nothing was wasted, and they could live on a flat rock because they had to. Those kids lived hard for many years, nothing ever came easy to them, they were real survivors, but what both sides of my family did and lived through seemed normal to them. 

I agree with the thread starter, it seems to be coming slow. But we are seeing a definite and I think deliberate decline. Of course there are many things that could trigger an explosive economic collapse. We can only live everyday we are granted and enjoy it as it might be our last, until TSHTF and if it does we will find ways to get by and learn to enjoy those tough days as our greatest generations did before us. 

Things may not get better, but they will get different.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

SHTF is just codeword for some event that justifies prepping. The important part is to be prepared for a wide range of possibilities.

As many said, this is a different society than 100 years ago -- the old timers were tough as nails and used to providing for themselves... not so anymore for many. There will be some of us that are used to scraping just to get by and this will just put everyone on our level 



oldvet said:


> Now the big question comes: What do you try to protect, your food or your family?


Answer = Yes! Protecting your food *IS *protecting your family.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

The old saying "Earn your salt" is lost on most of the people today. Things came to them too easy. Work for something? Don't be silly. Are they still teachable? I don't know. That's why I think there will be more trouble when things start collapsing around us.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Jezcruzen said:


> In every case, the topic centered around "SHTF", "WTSHTF", and often, 'TEOTWAWKI". Thats understandable. Its an interesting topic sure to stimulate the imagination. I guess thats the subject of my post here - the imagination part.
> 
> The acronym "SHTF" has now taken on the meaning of a zombie apocalypse, or a "Mad Max" world. In reality, a lot of people experience a SHTF event and acquaintances, even a neighbor, might not see it. It could be financial, health, a death, a divorce...


I totally agree with you - TEOTWAWKI is happening every single day to every single person, the only thing is, not everyone will recognize it as such. When a parent or sibling passes away, SHTF for them, not for the whole community, but it is something serious for them.

There is a level of TEOTWAWKI happening every spring, summer, fall and winter around the world. Floods and drought, fire and ice. How many families lost there homes in Texas this year? How many homes lost due to floods and mud-slides? How many lives lost ending the world of so many? How many jobs lost, how many lives ruined through no fault of their own? That is the true meaning of TEOTWAWKI ...

I see Zombies everyday. Driving over the 4th Ave flyover in Calgary I see the Zombies waiting to pounce. Waiting at the lights along 11th Ave and 17th Ave in Calgary, I see the Zombies. Driving past certain bus-stops in Calgary, I still see Zombies. To me, the Zombies are people with nothing left to lose. Zombies are those who abuse their minds and bodies with illegal substances. Zombies are those who have no problems putting a knife into your back for spare change. Zombies are those who think nothing of spilling blood. The Zombie population is growing everyday - soon the Zombies will overrun the whole world ...


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The shtf thing happens in a small or not so small way everyday, but the whole world is hurtling toward a financial mess, an interest based lending system is by its' very nature doomed, All that is keeping it afloat is confidence that there are enough people bailing to keep things from swamping. look at the money trail, those who make the most don't do anything to improve the lives of anyone(except maybe make a donation here and there) but they don't grow food , transport food or build things. they may own shares it entitieys that do but profit is the goal. look at how things happen, progress good or bad happens on a sine curve (google sine curve if you don't know what one is)trends go 'til they go vertical and either reflower or bust.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

my mil is one of those who only have maybe a weeks worth of food. when I told her I was canning more egg plants, she wondered why I was doing that when she could go to the store to buy what she wanted. she doesn't believe in canning and thinks that I wasted money when I bought 15 cases of jars this year. yet when she needed some egg plant for a party and none were in the store, guess who see called?  she went thru the depression and the rationing that came with ww2 and still will not see the reason behind having "extra" food and water. some will never get it. I am the one who is crazy for learning and reading about "crafts and hobbies" no one uses any more. :sssh: I guess time will tell who is right and who is wrong. wondering who will survive the transition? :dunno:


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

HozayBuck said:


> *I do what I do simply because I sense something gaining on me , Old age ? Zombies? nukes? does it matter ? really? trouble is trouble.... a problem to be dealt with.
> 
> So standing around watching over my shoulder won't solve the problems whatever their name..
> 
> ...


Well said. Thank you.

Jimmy


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

tugboats said:


> Knowledge is the only thing they can't tax or take away from us.
> 
> We are Americans. We have always found solutions to problems. We will continue to support the underdog, invent new ideas, solve problems and best any situation placed before us. We will eventually get our Country back on track and regain our prominence in the world. WE BEEZ DA BESTEST.


Well said, Tug!

Here's a quote from Herodotus (the guy who first wrote of the battle at Thermopolae -the 300 for you movie buffs)

*"Adversity has the effect of drawing out strength and qualities of a man that would have lain dormant in its absence"*

I believe that to be true (of everyone EXCEPT the Zombies that Naekid spoke of!) and hope for the best even if the worst happens.

But tis true, *Things may not get better, but they will get different! *


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## blarg (Sep 26, 2011)

I agree about the whole SHTF situation being slower in a lot of instances. Right now I feel like I'm living it in a minor way.

Five years ago if anyone would have told me I'd be clinging to a job I hate for dear life, stocking up on rice, canned goods and MRE's because the possibility of long term unemployment in my area was a serious risk I would have laughed.

Today I know I'm stuck in a house I can't sell and owe more on than what it's worth. There's almost no chance of me getting a job as good as what I currently have even though I haven't seen a raise in 2 years. 

Some people are doing well and making money in my area right now but myself and a lot of people I know are worse off than we were five years ago. Prepping, using less and making things last longer have just become a way of life for me and it's not necessarily by choice so I totally agree the fan is getting hit in slow motion.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

blarg said:


> Five years ago if anyone would have told me I'd be clinging to a job I hate for dear life, stocking up on rice, canned goods and MRE's because the possibility of long term unemployment in my area was a serious risk I would have laughed...stuck in a house I can't sell and owe more on than what it's worth. There's almost no chance of me getting a job as good as what I currently have...


We're right there with you. It breaks my heart to watch my husband drag himself to a job that holds no enjoyment for him and pays less than he was making in the military, because there was no other job available, and our savings account was running low.

I didn't realize that discrimination against retired military was still going on, but few of the private-sector jobs would even call him in for an interview, and the ones that did seemed to have a problem with his military service.

None of them would even call me back - I've been a stay at home mom for too long and no employer needs to take a chance on me when they can get some young thing fresh out of college.

And, like Blarg, our mortgage is upside down now, so we can't move without losing our shirts. :surrender:

Yes, TSHTF for us. The stuff is still flying, it's just going a little slower.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Our jobs are some of the best for this area. But we both work for the county. With states having their budget problems and money not coming down from Washington like it use to, we don't know how long we will have these jobs. We are both well over 65 and you know the chances of us finding another job is nil. DH hopes to retire next June and I will still have 2yrs to go before I am vested in the mandatory retirement fund that is taken out of our checks. These are the reasons we are tight with our money and prep, prep, prep. You never know what the next day will hold.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

blarg said:


> I agree about the whole SHTF situation being slower in a lot of instances. Right now I feel like I'm living it in a minor way.
> 
> Five years ago if anyone would have told me I'd be clinging to a job I hate for dear life, stocking up on rice, canned goods and MRE's because the possibility of long term unemployment in my area was a serious risk I would have laughed.... a lot of people I know are worse off than we were five years ago. Prepping, using less and making things last longer have just become a way of life for me and it's not necessarily by choice so I totally agree the fan is getting hit in slow motion.


Same here... I am pretty stable - our division is on a good government contract - but am hoping and praying something will be along when we finish the current job. Our company raises the last two years have been nil. I am just thanking God that I have a good job right now. Still spend every waking hour at the house building fence, preparing firewood, fixing our old vehicles, fixing our old house, etc. etc.

I have never owned a brand new vehicle, and most likely never will. I am NOT experiencing the prosperity of the previous generation.

And how exactly is it that people making less money than me drive much nicer vehicles than we do?

Zombies.... Just like Naekid described... are not far from where we live. There is no "bad side of town" here, everyone is mixed together. I have great neighbors... I may need to take them shooting so I can at least make sure they have some basic firearms handling skills.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

LincTex said:


> And how exactly is it that people making less money than me drive much nicer vehicles than we do?


They are up to their eye balls in debt...that is how!


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

kejmack said:


> They are up to their eye balls in debt...that is how!


This society has been taught that it is not only ok but good to carry debt. Most cars are now leased not sold (that is how most dealerships and car companies make money. It means you are going to rent a car for the rest of your life, which if you believe it is ok to have a car payment for the rest of your life is an easy step to take.

The average college student comes out of college with 22k in debt now, note this does not include student loans this is jut cc debt and car notes.

Selling debt is the number 1 industry in the US, an it has become a giant ponzy scheme, about 20 years ago cc companies changed their operating approach to cc's, form this is a lon that will be paid off to these loans won't be paid off but by throing cc's at EVERYONE we can increase our monthly income to exceed our monthly pay out.


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## flayer (Jan 15, 2011)

*Hmmm*

Mayhap when it's looking really imminent running up a huge debt stockpiling supplies might be smart...like they're gonna come collecting after the collapse? Or that my fico ? score will matter to me anymore?


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

flayer said:


> Mayhap when it's looking really imminent running up a huge debt stockpiling supplies might be smart...like they're gonna come collecting after the collapse? Or that my fico ? score will matter to me anymore?


And take on the risk that it doesn't actually collapse? That's an awful dangerous roll of the dice. Besides, if it truly collapses, it's going to be so ugly that anybody with substantial stores is going to be a target.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

partdeux said:


> And take on the risk that it doesn't actually collapse? That's an awful dangerous roll of the dice. Besides, if it truly collapses, it's going to be so ugly that anybody with substantial stores is going to be a target.


I agree running up debt when you think it is going to blow is a bad idea but I think flayer was jokeing. As for those with stores being targets you are right but That is why you should practice opsec and I would rather have stores and have to defend then be without and a refuge


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

(1) Our economy is a consumer (and thus debt) based scheme. The US Dollar is a debt instrument. Each one exists only because it was lent to us by a bank system and not a government entity. We have the benefit of being the currency of the world and oil is denominated by Dollars, but if we aren't borrowing/spending or attracting foreign investment, our currency takes a hit.

(2) I believe Ferfal308 from Argentina posted that it was a benefit to run up debt in a hyperinflation/currency reset event. Ideally, wouldn't you only borrow up to your ability to pay for what you didn't want to lose or could pay off, or were willing to lose?


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

41South,

Thank you for the post. It pretty much sums everything up...truth is, if it's not one thing, it's another.

My grandmother is now 96. She HATED living on the farm, she yearned for sidewalks. After her father's death the family eventually lost the farm to taxes. Now, she tells me she thinks my boys will be happy on the farm. Maybe 20/20 is hindsight.

She tells me stories of how her cousin was turned away...he smoked and the family could not risk him setting the barn on fire. Her father told him very gently, son, we cannot make it if we loose what was stored in that barn.

Her father trapped out of season and had a hiding place for "hides and pelts", of course, stills were involved. 

So much wisdom in stories of daily living back then.


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

I worked for the county so my retirement/disability is more than social security. I am not complaining, but it in no way allows me to keep my suburban home, get a new car, etc. It is not doable.

Thus, knowing exactly what I have to live on, and that it is not going to change much in the future, I am looking to build a life that allows me to have everything I want and need on that income.

As I posted before, I am looking at existing Amish Farms for sale in low tax areas. Looking at ideas to insure our energy needs without relying on the system. 

Just today my adult son came over and played cards with the baby ( six ), that was much more fun than paying $50.00 for us all to see a movie and popcorn. 

I am appreciative of this thread and will be headed to the library ( or half price books ) to get the books suggested.


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## flayer (Jan 15, 2011)

*Ayup*

 I was being funny, but still, if I can't find cash to set up an emergency cache of food and water I don't see what is wrong with charging it and being prepared. A piecemeal effort will get me prepared in a yr or two of scrimping or.. I can be set for say 6 months within a week or so and have the peace of mind...I can't eat credit though I have more than is safe, neither can the 4 people who depend on me for their lives.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

Immolatus said:


> I couldnt agree more, but at least around here, someones got to do it. Everyone thinks Im nuts, and Im ok with that.
> 
> When we refer to 'zombies' we are referring to the hordes of people who will be without. If it comes to the point where there are massive food shortages, then the people who cant fend for themselves will become rampaging hordes, looting and pillaging everything they can to survive.
> Mobs of people with one thing on their minds. (BRAAIIINS! )
> ...


Bingo! My idea of Zombies are exactly as Immolatus describes. As HB (and others) said, I feel something coming, and it doesn't appear to be anything good.  And I don't think it's going to have a storybook ending.

Tim


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

tenOC said:


> (1) Our economy is a consumer (and thus debt) based scheme. The US Dollar is a debt instrument. Each one exists only because it was lent to us by a bank system and not a government entity. We have the benefit of being the currency of the world and oil is denominated by Dollars, but if we aren't borrowing/spending or attracting foreign investment, our currency takes a hit.
> 
> (2) I believe Ferfal308 from Argentina posted that it was a benefit to run up debt in a hyperinflation/currency reset event. Ideally, wouldn't you only borrow up to your ability to pay for what you didn't want to lose or could pay off, or were willing to lose?


BINGO on #1. Our "cash" isn't even money. Its a promissory note based totally on debt. Its only value is that someone else is willing to take it as "payment".

I worked for a city fire dept. I would watch the rookies come in. In their first year several things usually occurred - they gained 20lbs, they bought a new truck, they got married, then they bought a new home (or "almost" new). Much older and higher paid, I could only shake my head as to how they were doing it. I knew that I couldn't afford it. I would get into my old '75 Toyota 4X4, which I kept for 13 years, and putt on home to my modest little house.

Yes, they did go into debt... up to their eyeballs! They usually worked a second job (as most of us firefighters did) and their wife worked full time. So, it took three paychecks to maintain their solvency. A loss of any of the three and it was well onto the road to insolvency. No thanks. I couldn't have stood the stress of all that.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

If you plan to purchase your supplies with a credit card only charge what you can payoff in one month. Another draw back is if you purchase a noticeably large amount of supplies anyone can track your purchases of the food patrol when they decide you need to share what you have stored. As long as you have debt you are a slave to that debt.


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

Ezmerelda said:


> I'm basing my preps partially on what I learned from a book about the Great Depression - A Nickel's Worth of Skim Milk.
> 
> The author was a child during that time. His family was one of the "lucky" ones, because they had an old well in the back yard that they were able to clean out and draw water from, so when they had to turn their water service off, they had another source of water. They also had a grape vine and a small vegetable garden. They did without electricity, and used candles and lanterns for light.
> 
> I need to read it again. For being about the Great Depression, I actually found it to be uplifting. Times were hard, but if you had some things in place, it wasn't unsurvivable.


THANK YOU!!!! After your post I began searching for the book " A Nickel's Worth of Skim Milk". I finally gave up and bought it used via Amazon. I LOVE this book and the characters. After two days I am almost finished, I could have finished in one day but I do not want it to end. My heart broke reading Mr. Hastings had died in the late 1990's. What an invaluable resource he was and has left us in this book.

I honestly think this book is a blue print for what is to come at one time in our lives or another, either on a large scale or even in our private lives. I am saddened that I did not readily learn these lessons from my still living 96 year old grandmother. She and the others tried to tell us, tried to explain it, but I just thought we continue to be propserous.

Now, I sit in my suburban home and watch as the for sale signs pop up over night, the people move out weekly, etc. Short sales, homes taken off the market, foreclosures, etc. My neighbors have had breast cancer, deaths, altzhiemers, divorces, job loss, etc. Major loss in housing values, people letting the property go, mold growing in the basements and walls, etc. Just another day in what we all thought was the "middle class dream". I am leaving within two years.

I stopped counting the people I know loosing their homes, working poor, etc. This book has brought me to such a peace...it is what it is and we will be happy. Prepping, survival, etc, can be joyous, and should be. My six year old has been having the time of his life the past few months blaring music and chasing his dog through the house. He is going to remember these memories forever, not the "luxuries" that we now take for granted.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Financial Collapse*

There are diffrences between the effects of a financial collapse such as the collapse that took place in 1929 and the effects of a financial collapse that could occure now.

In 1929 , only 17% of the population worked outside agriculture. This country was a country of farms and farmers.

Though there were people who went hungry , (primararly in citys) , most people had food to eat because they grew it or they were able to grow it.

The market place was supported by large warehouses as the roads and transportation system did not allow for the rapid transport of goods and food from one end of the country to the other.

Contrasting then with now, 2% of the population of this country grows the food for the other 98%.

That food is rapidly transported as are other goods and services from one end of the country to the other in a three day period of time.

Because of this rapid transport of goods and services , there are now store rooms full of food or parts , ect.

Every thing is ordered and replaced on the shelves in three days period of time. They sall this system a "Sigma Six " supply system.

Any thing that interupted this rapid transport of goods and service from one end of the country to the other for as much as two weeks, would result in a collapse of our sociaty.

The return to a rural system of locally grown produce and commerce would take years.

Very few of us have the means , property or skills to grow our own food.

You can not just decide to become a subsistance farmer over night and do it sucessfully. Remember you can not fail to grow enough a single year and survive.

These cirsumstances could be triggered by economic collapse of natural events.

The result will be the same !


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Clarice said:


> If you plan to purchase your supplies with a credit card only charge what you can payoff in one month. Another draw back is if you purchase a noticeably large amount of supplies anyone can track your purchases of the food patrol when they decide you need to share what you have stored. As long as you have debt you are a slave to that debt.


I think it's more important to be prepared as soon as possible. You don't want to be short of food or other supplies because you were trying to stay within your budget.

I think the US is going to see hyperinflation in the near future. I think what's going on in the EU will set off a chain reaction of sovereign debt defaults and bank failures. It's possible that in as little as a month from now our economic situation could be vastly different than today. Or maybe that happens in three months or six months or a year. That's why I think it's so important to become fully prepared even if you have to go into debt to achieve that.

We need to watch for debt defaults in the EU and the Federal Reserve intervening. What if the Fed creates $5 trillion or $10 trillion or $20 trillion to stabilize the world's banking system? We could wake up one day to find out that the purchasing power of the dollar has dropped 10% or 20% or 50% or 90%. That would mean that a loaf of bread could go from $2.00 to $2.50 or $5.00 or $20.00 overnight. You might wake up one day and find out it's too late to prep any more.

It's possible that the federal government could force Wal-Mart and other grocery store chains to share information about who has stocked up on food. I don't think it's going to happen though. I think the people in charge are the same people who believe that the maximum sustainable human population on earth is 500 million. I think those who are trying to engineer the collapse want as many people to die as possible.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

The really scary thing about this post is that its as likely to be right as it is to be wrong.


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## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

Take one cup of "learned helplessness," add a dash of iPhone and you've got yourself a zombie right there.


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## stand (Nov 15, 2011)

*if it's not "end of the world", you need no preps*

beyond a pistol, a water filter, and gold/cash with which to buy your way out of the problem area. So what's to discuss, then? Just because you "know' that I used a CC to buy some stuff or food does NOT mean you know where to find me (or my stash).  Only a fool would prepare a stash where Big Brother knows to look for him. WW3 is not yet, but Ruby Ridge and Waco DID actually happen. Big Brother is a very real threat.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

stand said:


> beyond a pistol, a water filter, and gold/cash with which to buy your way out of the problem area. So what's to discuss, then? Just because you "know' that I used a CC to buy some stuff or food does NOT mean you know where to find me (or my stash).  Only a fool would prepare a stash where Big Brother knows to look for him. WW3 is not yet, but Ruby Ridge and Waco DID actually happen. Big Brother is a very real threat.


you're such a good example of *being a bad example* :nuts:


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> you're such a good example of *being a bad example* :nuts:


Blob, you are so right!!! And BTW, I love that you have CANDY!:congrat:


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The_Blob said:


> you're such a good example of *being a bad example* :nuts:


Hey stop picking on the mall ninja


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

stand said:


> you need no preps beyond a pistol, a water filter, and gold/cash with which to buy your way out of the problem area. So what's to discuss, then?


Not realistic - you are assuming:
1) the people you threaten actually *have* goods to give to you...
2) the rest of the world is not armed (good luck with that one)...
3) people will sell you their last bit of food at *any* price....
4) people will even take your coins/cash. They can't tell real from fake!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Don't listen to "stand", he's gone, axed, off the forum, 'excommunicated'. He's got some serious problems, and this is at least his third username on this forum, the others being Francon and Lickit. Disregard his posts, for the most part.

LincTex, you are exactly right on with your post!


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> Don't listen to "stand", he's gone, axed, off the forum, 'excommunicated'. He's got some serious problems, and this is at least his third username on this forum, the others being Francon and Lickit. Disregard his posts, for the most part.
> 
> LincTex, you are exactly right on with your post!


He's a PITA....huh Sue...

Jimmy


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

I was starten ta think that he(stand) was one of those we would have to keep in the crosshairs when TSHTF.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Davarm said:


> I was starten ta think that he(stand) was one of those we would have to keep in the crosshairs when TSHTF.


I doubt it. He'll be hiding in his 3' diameter storm drain while all of us idiots walk over him in the sunshine.


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## horseman1946 (Oct 19, 2011)

*Like minded people*

This is one of the most interesting discussions I have EVER read. I feel like I have found like-minded people, and no longer, in my mind, am an outcast among my friends and family.

Something IS coming, and whatever the collapse is, I feel prepared. I am older, 65, retired govt. worker and retired military, two war vet, and what I am prepping for is my children, my wife and I will probably not survive for long after the SHTF.

I own 80 acres, goats, horses, chickens, and have good crop raising land. We have two years of supplies, spring water, and an old 1953 Ford tractor that will run should there be an EMP event (One Second After). My biggest personal worry is how will I be able to turn starving people from my door, especially small children and people I know.

There are a multiude of Zombies in my area, with an entitlement mentality, and I know they will take what they want, because they are doing it now. Watch the news, read the newspaper, robbery, home invasion, etc. is happening every hour of every day.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Welcome, Horseman, and thank you for your service to our country.

I'm in south-central Virginia in the Lynchburg area. Quite here for now. Good people, mostly. Plenty of farmland, and some still remember what to do with it! Too bad that we are within one gas tank of Washington to the north and Tidewater to the east, but it could be worse.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

i read some where that the US has only about two or three weeks of food supplies on hand. no wonder they tell us to keep a two or three day supply on hand for emergencies. they don't want us having more than they do.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

stayingthegame said:


> i read some where that the US has only about two or three weeks of food supplies on hand.


Closest grocery store to me is stocked EVERY DAY. When a snow storm comes it is stripped bare in 12 hours.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

stayingthegame said:


> i read some where that the US has only about two or three weeks of food supplies on hand. no wonder they tell us to keep a two or three day supply on hand for emergencies. they don't want us having more than they do.


it is true and not just food. for the last 10 to 15 years retailers including grocery stores have been trying to reduce inventory by keeping as little on hand as possible they want the wholesalers to carry inventory and be able to order and get it quickly. The wholesalers want the next guy up the supply chain to carry the inventory. long story short supply lines ad long and thin


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## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

LincTex said:


> Closest grocery store to me is stocked EVERY DAY. When a snow storm comes it is stripped bare in 12 hours.


I live less than an hour from Dallas and after TWO DAYS of ice and snow the shelves in our local grocery store were bare.


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## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

That was one reason we started "prepping." The other main reason is that I fully expect people to spaz out in December 2012. I don't believe the poles will shift, but I do believe that if there is a "routine" earthquake anywhere, especially in the US, that people will go crazy and start looting. I want to be able to hunker down with my family and ride it out in safety.


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

horseman1946 said:


> This is one of the most interesting discussions I have EVER read. I feel like I have found like-minded people, and no longer, in my mind, am an outcast among my friends and family.
> 
> Something IS coming, and whatever the collapse is, I feel prepared. I am older, 65, retired govt. worker and retired military, two war vet, and what I am prepping for is my children, my wife and I will probably not survive for long after the SHTF.
> 
> ...


HI! what a wonderful post. I am a 56 year old female raising a six year old. At times it is a bit scarey to think I could end up running a homestead alone but I feel driven to insure my two adult sons have a place when SHTF.

Having spent a bit of time living in rural KY in the early 70's I know it is not an easy life. I watched my mother-in-law work herself to old age. I am just planning, prepping, and trusting at this point.


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## SuspectZero (Feb 3, 2011)

Unfortunately shtf mentality has shifted into zombies. Video games and television shows it while sites preach the real possiblilties of it. I think to many on this site they dont have that idea of what shtf will be. My generation sees shtf as having so many guns they cant carry or shoot and their b.o.b. to get them to their b.o.l. in order to run from the zombie apocolypse. Its definately combining the imaginative part with reality but the way i see it is if they are ready to fight off a horde of zombies then they are better prepared then what they were before that.
I do see economic collapse as the real threat of a shtf scenario and i think it could come on fast depending on the catalyst. Other countries have lost the value of their currencies over night before. Whos to say that one day china or india stop accepting u.s. dollars as payment or we loose the status of being the worlds reserve currency. Unlike other generations, mine wouldnt know what to do in an environment where you have to grow your own crops or get your own milk, eggs, etc. Most wouldnt know what to do if their power was out for long. Katrina is a reminder of what can go wrong. We have the dont worry fema and our gov will come attitude unlike older generations unfortunately. If my friends want to prep for zombies i say go for it. Thats more m.r.e.s and supplies than they had before and less stress for people that really prepare for a long term disaster.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

SuspectZero said:


> Unfortunately shtf mentality has shifted into zombies. Video games and television shows it while sites preach the real possiblilties of it. I think to many on this site they dont have that idea of what shtf will be. My generation sees shtf as having so many guns they cant carry or shoot and their b.o.b. to get them to their b.o.l. in order to run from the zombie apocolypse. Its definately combining the imaginative part with reality but the way i see it is if they are ready to fight off a horde of zombies then they are better prepared then what they were before that.
> I do see economic collapse as the real threat of a shtf scenario and i think it could come on fast depending on the catalyst. Other countries have lost the value of their currencies over night before. Whos to say that one day china or india stop accepting u.s. dollars as payment or we loose the status of being the worlds reserve currency. Unlike other generations, mine wouldnt know what to do in an environment where you have to grow your own crops or get your own milk, eggs, etc. Most wouldnt know what to do if their power was out for long. Katrina is a reminder of what can go wrong. We have the dont worry fema and our gov will come attitude unlike older generations unfortunately. If my friends want to prep for zombies i say go for it. Thats more m.r.e.s and supplies than they had before and less stress for people that really prepare for a long term disaster.


I agreed with you 100% until I saw the video of the occupy protesters, zombies are real


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

lefty said:


> I agreed with you 100% until I saw the video of the occupy protesters, zombies are real


Yep Lefty, those zombie protesters seem to be a lot more interested in who they can rape, how much dope they can do, how many good folks they can cuss and harass, how much damage they can do and how many laws they can break, rather than having their say in a peaceful protest or march. JMHO


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

oldvet said:


> Yep Lefty, those zombie protesters seem to be a lot more interested in who they can rape, how much dope they can do, how many good folks they can cuss and harass, how much damage they can do and how many laws they can break, rather than having their say in a peaceful protest or march. JMHO


Yes, especially this old hag, she is only interested in raping, doping, etc.
84-Year-Old Woman Becomes the Pepper-Sprayed Face of Occupy Seattle - National - The Atlantic Wire
And then the reited police chief who is most assuredly raping and doping. 
Retired Philadelphia Police Captain Arrested At Occupy Wall Street Demonstration
And there is the right wing reporter who has nice things to say about rapers and dopers.
Occupy Wall Street | Reporter Assaulted | NYPD | The Daily Caller


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Asatrur said:


> Yes, especially this old hag, she is only interested in raping, doping, etc.
> 84-Year-Old Woman Becomes the Pepper-Sprayed Face of Occupy Seattle - National - The Atlantic Wire
> And then the reited police chief who is most assuredly raping and doping.
> Retired Philadelphia Police Captain Arrested At Occupy Wall Street Demonstration
> ...


Oh my bad, I didn't realize that all of those protesters were either 84 yr. old women, retired L.E.O's. or right wing reporters. :scratch

I still maintain that the majority of them are a bunch of zombie loosers. No matter what you post to the contrary, it won't change my mind.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

Hopefully the 84 year old woman stayed in a OWS no-rape zone!


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## HuskerBill (Nov 28, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> In reality, a lot of people experience a SHTF event and acquaintances, even a neighbor, might not see it. It could be financial, health, a death, a divorce...


Exactly! That is why it is so important to make a realistic threat assessment.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Asatrur said:


> Yes, especially this old hag, she is only interested in raping, doping, etc.
> 84-Year-Old Woman Becomes the Pepper-Sprayed Face of Occupy Seattle - National - The Atlantic Wire
> And then the reited police chief who is most assuredly raping and doping.
> Retired Philadelphia Police Captain Arrested At Occupy Wall Street Demonstration
> ...


If you cause trouble you can get pepper sprayed. Being 84 doesn't exempt you from the consequences of violence.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Asatrur said:


> Yes, especially this old hag, she is only interested in raping, doping, etc.
> 84-Year-Old Woman Becomes the Pepper-Sprayed Face of Occupy Seattle - National - The Atlantic Wire
> And then the reited police chief who is most assuredly raping and doping.
> Retired Philadelphia Police Captain Arrested At Occupy Wall Street Demonstration
> ...


Anyone can look at a crowd (mob?) like we have all seen from the numerous "occupy" locations and cherry pick whatever proves our agenda because of the mix if people having a multitude of agendas that are there. I look at them and have to ask this question - Why are they not in front of the White House, on Capitol Hill, and at the various Ivy League colleges (which charged them outrageous tuition in the first place)? Wall St. only took advantage of regulations their buddies in Washington passed for them. If you look at every perceived abuse by Wall St. or by the "too big to fails" it all points right back to Washington and/or The Fed, and a lot of it to Democrats and the Obama Administration. Just think about the current Sylendra fiasco. Yet none of the occupy protesters are protesting Obama. Why? Could it be that occupy is actually being controlled by Obama and similar interests?

These groups are becoming increasingly provocative and violent. Why? Could it be that a lot of "useful idiots" are being played like a fiddle by marxists and herded like sheep unknowingly to the sacrificial alter of a marxist revolution? I think so. That word - revolution - is coming up a lot more often as the more docile protesters are being replaced by an entirely different type of protester - the revolutionary. Anti- America, anti-capitalism, anti-constitution, pro-communist, pro-distribute the wealth, pro-"social justice". 2012 will be a benchmark year, to be sure, and I think we will see the docile protestors weeded out and replaced by the revolutionary and mindless violence will become the order of the day. If I lived in a any major metro area I would be very concerned about what is likely just around the corner!


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

BillS said:


> If you cause trouble you can get pepper sprayed. Being 84 doesn't exempt you from the consequences of violence.


My point was the person who referred to these folks as rapists and doper needs to make sure that is an accurate statement, as I doubt these folks were rapers and dopers as the person implied.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Asatrur said:


> My point was the person who referred to these folks as rapists and doper needs to make sure that is an accurate statement, as I doubt these folks were rapers and dopers as the person implied.


Take a look at what is really going on inside those "camps" and what some of those "little angels" have been arrested for.

Do I think that all of them are doopers, rapists, muggers and other assorted low life's? No of course I don't, however those things that I mentioned have occured and that is a pure fact.

As I said it seems that they aren't there as a peaceful protest group (such as the Tea parties), if that was their intent then why all of the arrests and other BS. This is my feelings and opinoin on the matter and it will not change.

By the way 'the person" you are refering to is "oldvet", yep me.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

it was not litlle old ladies screaming and chasing children at the OWS in NY. There may be a few well intentioned folks in the mob but over all I see them as a problem looking for trouble just MHO


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## Obligated (Apr 11, 2011)

First let me preface this with the fact that I am almost completely ignorant concerning the "occupy" movement. I am not willing to sort through the tons of info in an effort to make sense of it. My energy has to be directed towards what I want to accomplish for myself and family.

That said, when I first heard of the movement I considered attending. My emotional reaction was anger that the 'bail out money" was used to provide major bonus' for "the haves". And when I heard them justify recieving the money I got even angrier.

Now, as I said, I must direct my energy towards the reality of what I hope to accomplish, but I am still angry. 

As for when SHTF reality, I am basing mine on the books written about the depression, my own experiences living in Appalachia and when I was a struggling newlywed. I figure if I prepare for that along with protection from the probable chaos, I am ahead of the game.


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## ImNotCrazyRU (Oct 18, 2011)

*SHTF scenario*

How about a teamster strike before the elections next year in solidarity with say, occupy Wall Street? Three weeks without food, fuel or medical deliveries will create the SHTF scenario you are wondering about. As far as the evil zombies? I believe most of the dangerous ones are in DC right now, but that's my opinion.


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