# Horses/Mules



## RaigenB

So I live in a rural area, we own 40acres of land, and I've tried very hard to convince my dad that we should get a horse. He doesn't want one because he doesn't want it to take up his time. Which it wouldn't? But anyway, I'd want one in case SHTF and don't have any gas, so it would be my transportation. I also would want one because I'd love to trail ride.

Which brings me to another point, I've heard Mules are good with trail riding because their eyes face forward so they're more sure footed. I thought this would be a good thing.

A couple of my friends have horses and other than their shots, food, and trimming their hooves, that's they aren't that bad. Is it mainly the upfront cost that's the worst? Like the horse cost, tack, food, etc.?

Does anyone with horses/mules have any more info about them? It would be helpful!


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## UncleJoe

RaigenB said:


> A couple of my friends have horses and other than their shots, food, and trimming their hooves, that's they aren't that bad. Is it mainly the upfront cost that's the worst? Like the horse cost, tack, food, etc.?
> 
> Does anyone with horses/mules have any more info about them? It would be helpful!


Right now, you can find a horse on craigslist pretty cheap. I've even seen ads where folks are giving them away because they can't afford to keep them. Don't be fooled. Those vet bills, farrier bills, occasional dental bills, monthly worming (which you can do yourself) and feed costs can add up quick.
Do you have a shelter or will you need to build one? Fencing? Fencing is $$$$$. Water trough (with heater), feed buckets, saddle (around $600) saddle pad, halter, bit, bridle, reins. All these things add up in a big hurry.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to discourage you even though it may sound that way. Just want you to be aware that a horse is NOT cheap to keep.

At one time we had 7 horses, 4 donkeys, 2 mules and a llama. We're down to 2 horses now. They need hay for 6 months out of the year. The price of hay seems to be rising every month. With the hay plus some other supplemental feed, it's nearly $500 a month for those 6 months.

Mules are another story. One of ours was as friendly and easy going as you ask for. The other was, well, stubborn and hardheaded as a mule.  OK. That was poor but the point is, he wasn't here very long. You can never be sure what you're getting into with a mule.

Horses will certainly hold a place of high regard in a SHTF situation and now is the time to learn about them. Just keep all of the above information in mind as you continue your quest for one.

You might not want to show this to your dad.


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## RaigenB

UncleJoe said:


> Right now, you can find a horse on craigslist pretty cheap. I've even seen ads where folks are giving them away because they can't afford to keep them. Don't be fooled. Those vet bills, farrier bills, occasional dental bills, monthly worming (which you can do yourself) and feed costs can add up quick.
> Do you have a shelter or will you need to build one? Fencing? Fencing is $$$$$. Water trough (with heater), feed buckets, saddle (around $600) saddle pad, halter, bit, bridle, reins. All these things add up in a big hurry.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to discourage you even though it may sound that way. Just want you to be aware that a horse is NOT cheap to keep.
> 
> At one time we had 7 horses, 4 donkeys, 2 mules and a llama. We're down to 2 horses now. They need hay for 6 months out of the year. The price of hay seems to be rising every month. With the hay plus some other supplemental feed, it's nearly $500 a month for those 6 months.
> 
> Mules are another story. One of ours was as friendly and easy going as you ask for. The other was, well, stubborn and hardheaded as a mule.  OK. That was poor but the point is, he wasn't here very long. You can never be sure what you're getting into with a mule.
> 
> Horses will certainly hold a place of high regard in a SHTF situation and now is the time to learn about them. Just keep all of the above information in mind as you continue your quest for one.
> 
> You might not want to show this to your dad.


I appreciate your info  thanks!


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## RaigenB

Oh and we do have a barn that the horse can stay in, grandpa also has left over fence from his cow pasture. I would start buying supplies but I don't want to until I know my dad would be ok with us getting a horse.


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## kejmack

One horse is going to be lonely. One mule is going to be miserable. You should not keep just one. If I were you, I'd take some lessons in horse care from a local instructor. 

There are a couple of sayings that apply to your situation..."Green horse, green rider equals black and blue." comes to mind. Not being an experienced horse person, you are likely to end up with an unsuitable animal. You need to find someone who knows what they are doing to help you.

A second saying, "How do you make a small fortune on horses? Start with a large one." Horses are expensive. Feed, hay, shots, etc. Their feet must be trimmed every 8 weeks (which is $60 a pop here). Their teeth must be floated once a year. Horses seem to be experts at getting hurt especially if they are not being kept in appropriate fencing. 

I currently spend:
$360/ year for trims
$3600/ year on hay
$1200/ year on feed
$260/ year on vaccinations
$600 on odds and ends.... including unforeseen vet bills

I probably spend more than that when you factor in constantly replacing lost halters, broken tack, etc.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Oh boy.
My favorite question.
1 Read every thing you can.
2 Make a horsey person who is where you want to go your 
best friend.
3 Turn down the first 3 free horses (minumum).
4 Unless you intend to get paid to work cows do not get a hot
blood.( thin hoof wall, energy wasters,& always finding some
way to get hurt or hurt you)
There is a reason draft horses are called cold blood.
Mine often fall asleep while pulling huge loads.
My horse of choice is the Percheron.
VERY thick hoof wall,low maintenance surprised? Think about
it their favorite hobby's are eating & sleeping.
My annual bill is $200 per horse.
Then again I make most of my own equipment.
Now for those few times when you want speed and aggression 
remember the Percheron was the favored mount of the knight
in shining armour.
You can wake this up.
I have trained 1 of mine to use his butt to slam through a door.
And the older/more dominate of the pair has pulled over 1800 
lbs while outrunning an Appaloosa.
The Appaloosa was under a light rider only.
Then again until you do wake up that genetic history it's like
straddeling a school bus.
And riding out a bucking is hilarious they are just engineered
wrong to be a rodeo star.
Now a short word about only having one horse and that horse
Being lonely.
GOOD.
I want any horse that isn't bomb resistant to think of ME as
their best friend,not some other animal.
Isolation and controlling the food bowl and affection is so much better than any other training/controlling tool.
The fact that I have had my beard litterelly freeze to my 
Horses main is 1 heck of a bonding.
My qualifications are apparent with a camera.
My horses and dogs will go into situations that would terrify
most people's pets.
I have trained 3 Pyrenees dogs to pull a wagon.
I have trained many horses and dogs for cash money and 
gotten paid every time.
I live full time in a horse drawn wagon.
Though I haven't moved in over a year because of MY health.
I might still have an old video of my boy relocating a small 
building for cash.
I do still have a video of my horse being exposed to the sound
of a double barreled 12 gauge at 20 feet.
You can plainly see his neck/head flinch.
His feet DO NOT MOVE.
I DO NOT believe in causing pain because in short order any
animal will learn you are much less effective at causing pain
than they are.
So if anybody is interested in learning I love passing on animal
skills.
I'm also not shy to tell a human that I think will be a danger
to the animal or him/herself to go home.
The final and most important thing I will say is my OPINION,s
are distilled from many many other men and women.
THEY ARE OPINIONS.
I had 1 horse that had 3 different trainers try to teach it to
mount the trailer.
For 3 days I failed.
On day 4 I played peek a boo and that knucklehead walked
Right in.
So let's talk trading/training/economy.
Don't ever accept a skinny young horse his bone structure has
been affected for life.
Well so much for keeping it short.
Sometimes passions rule !


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Shoot I forgot to comment on mules.
NO!!!!
And are you sure you want to continue using a pic of yourself?


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## UncleJoe

kejmack said:


> One horse is going to be lonely.


Good point. Can't believe I forgot to mention it.

Along that same line... if you should end up with 2 and decide to go riding by yourself, the one left behind will have a hissy fit. Been there too.


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## *Andi

If you ask 10 different people about horses ... you could get 10 very different answers. 

We have 5 and 3 donkeys ...

My sons girlfriend was in your shoes ... and here is what she done. She checked with some local horse barns and found one to give her a job. She started out muck'in stalls, she saved every penny to buy her first horse. (with the help of the barn owner) A deal was cut now she works off the board rent for her horse and still gets a check. (Which she spend on the horse) lol

Myself I like my draft pony, Haflinger/cross ...

As for the mule ... I like them... One smooth ride. 

You can cut some cost by learning to do things yourself. Trimming we do our own but we do pay to have someone to shoe them, if we are going off the farm. For years we used a lady in town, she did a great job and didn't charge an arm & a leg. (other than that) They are vet checked once a year ... unless a problem comes up.

Best of luck to you.


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## kejmack

Andi's idea is excellent. By working at a local stable, you will gain valuable experience and you will have help when it comes time to buy your horse. Whatever you do, do NOT try to buy your first horse by yourself. You will get ripped off. Take someone with experience with you.


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## Moby76065

So exactly how much meat is in that $5000 animal?
Sorry, just thinking.



kejmack said:


> One horse is going to be lonely. One mule is going to be miserable. You should not keep just one. If I were you, I'd take some lessons in horse care from a local instructor.
> 
> There are a couple of sayings that apply to your situation..."Green horse, green rider equals black and blue." comes to mind. Not being an experienced horse person, you are likely to end up with an unsuitable animal. You need to find someone who knows what they are doing to help you.
> 
> A second saying, "How do you make a small fortune on horses? Start with a large one." Horses are expensive. Feed, hay, shots, etc. Their feet must be trimmed every 8 weeks (which is $60 a pop here). Their teeth must be floated once a year. Horses seem to be experts at getting hurt especially if they are not being kept in appropriate fencing.
> 
> I currently spend:
> $360/ year for trims
> $3600/ year on hay
> $1200/ year on feed
> $260/ year on vaccinations
> $600 on odds and ends.... including unforeseen vet bills
> 
> I probably spend more than that when you factor in constantly replacing lost halters, broken tack, etc.


----------



## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Oh boy.
> My favorite question.
> 1 Read every thing you can.
> 2 Make a horsey person who is where you want to go your
> best friend.
> 3 Turn down the first 3 free horses (minumum).
> 4 Unless you intend to get paid to work cows do not get a hot
> blood.( thin hoof wall, energy wasters,& always finding some
> way to get hurt or hurt you)
> There is a reason draft horses are called cold blood.
> Mine often fall asleep while pulling huge loads.
> My horse of choice is the Percheron.
> VERY thick hoof wall,low maintenance surprised? Think about
> it their favorite hobby's are eating & sleeping.
> My annual bill is $200 per horse.
> Then again I make most of my own equipment.
> Now for those few times when you want speed and aggression
> remember the Percheron was the favored mount of the knight
> in shining armour.
> You can wake this up.
> I have trained 1 of mine to use his butt to slam through a door.
> And the older/more dominate of the pair has pulled over 1800
> lbs while outrunning an Appaloosa.
> The Appaloosa was under a light rider only.
> Then again until you do wake up that genetic history it's like
> straddeling a school bus.
> And riding out a bucking is hilarious they are just engineered
> wrong to be a rodeo star.
> Now a short word about only having one horse and that horse
> Being lonely.
> GOOD.
> I want any horse that isn't bomb resistant to think of ME as
> their best friend,not some other animal.
> Isolation and controlling the food bowl and affection is so much better than any other training/controlling tool.
> The fact that I have had my beard litterelly freeze to my
> Horses main is 1 heck of a bonding.
> My qualifications are apparent with a camera.
> My horses and dogs will go into situations that would terrify
> most people's pets.
> I have trained 3 Pyrenees dogs to pull a wagon.
> I have trained many horses and dogs for cash money and
> gotten paid every time.
> I live full time in a horse drawn wagon.
> Though I haven't moved in over a year because of MY health.
> I might still have an old video of my boy relocating a small
> building for cash.
> I do still have a video of my horse being exposed to the sound
> of a double barreled 12 gauge at 20 feet.
> You can plainly see his neck/head flinch.
> His feet DO NOT MOVE.
> I DO NOT believe in causing pain because in short order any
> animal will learn you are much less effective at causing pain
> than they are.
> So if anybody is interested in learning I love passing on animal
> skills.
> I'm also not shy to tell a human that I think will be a danger
> to the animal or him/herself to go home.
> The final and most important thing I will say is my OPINION,s
> are distilled from many many other men and women.
> THEY ARE OPINIONS.
> I had 1 horse that had 3 different trainers try to teach it to
> mount the trailer.
> For 3 days I failed.
> On day 4 I played peek a boo and that knucklehead walked
> Right in.
> So let's talk trading/training/economy.
> Don't ever accept a skinny young horse his bone structure has
> been affected for life.
> Well so much for keeping it short.
> Sometimes passions rule !


Thanks for the info! And I do knows lady with horses, a couple actually. One of them owns a stable and teaches people to ride and lets people board there. She lives around 25-30 min away. Maybe I can see if she would offer me a job? I also have many horse books that I have read multiple times. I also liked what you said about it being ok to have one horse and having it know that you are its companion. That's what I would like to do but everyone has always said that you need too. But like someone else said, the other won't be happy if it gets left behind. I also haven't heard of that breed, I'll look it up!


*Andi said:


> If you ask 10 different people about horses ... you could get 10 very different answers.
> 
> We have 5 and 3 donkeys ...
> 
> My sons girlfriend was in your shoes ... and here is what she done. She checked with some local horse barns and found one to give her a job. She started out muck'in stalls, she saved every penny to buy her first horse. (with the help of the barn owner) A deal was cut now she works off the board rent for her horse and still gets a check. (Which she spend on the horse) lol
> 
> Myself I like my draft pony, Haflinger/cross ...
> 
> As for the mule ... I like them... One smooth ride.
> 
> You can cut some cost by learning to do things yourself. Trimming we do our own but we do pay to have someone to shoe them, if we are going off the farm. For years we used a lady in town, she did a great job and didn't charge an arm & a leg. (other than that) They are vet checked once a year ... unless a problem comes up.
> 
> Best of luck to you.


I would love to work for someone with horses, or even just hang out too.


kejmack said:


> Andi's idea is excellent. By working at a local stable, you will gain valuable experience and you will have help when it comes time to buy your horse. Whatever you do, do NOT try to buy your first horse by yourself. You will get ripped off. Take someone with experience with you.


Oh I know, I would definitely have a horse friends come with me, for sure!


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## labotomi

We have 5 horses, 1 mule and about 60 head of cattle (not including the calves) on 200 acres with about 100 devoted to pasture and 70 for hay. We can let them graze during the warm months and grow hay for feeding them through the winter. Fencing is a pain to maintain, but ours don't cross the fences unless they don't have enough food. 

How much of that 40 acres is available for grazing and/or growing hay? If it's not much then food is going to be a major expense. I'm sure the growing season in IN is less than TN as well.

Kejmac. I'm not sure if it's your location, land or something else like raising horses for showing, but we don't spend anywhere close to that on all our animals. We do the vaccinations, hire a local Mennonite (reasonable fees) to do the maintenance like hoof trimming (less often than once a month). The Mennonites have also trained our horses on occasion when we couldn't devote the time.


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## RaigenB

labotomi said:


> We have 5 horses, 1 mule and about 60 head of cattle (not including the calves) on 200 acres with about 100 devoted to pasture and 70 for hay. We can let them graze during the warm months and grow hay for feeding them through the winter. Fencing is a pain to maintain, but ours don't cross the fences unless they don't have enough food.
> 
> How much of that 40 acres is available for grazing and/or growing hay? If it's not much then food is going to be a major expense. I'm sure the growing season in IN is less than TN as well.
> 
> Kejmac. I'm not sure if it's your location, land or something else like raising horses for showing, but we don't spend anywhere close to that on all our animals. We do the vaccinations, hire a local Mennonite (reasonable fees) to do the maintenance like hoof trimming (less often than once a month). The Mennonites have also trained our horses on occasion when we couldn't devote the time.


Wow! That is amazing!
Well half of our property is divided in half by a county road. I'd like for the horse to be on our side of the road (that our house is on).
1. so it is easier to see him/her to make sure they wouldn't be getting into trouble.
2. So I can make sure nothing is trying to mess with him/her.
3. Especially when it's cooler outside, it would be more convenient.
4. The barn is on our side of the road. The east side of the barn has like a lean-to build onto it. It doesn't stick out, but it goes into the barn like 15ft. I think this would be useful to use so I wouldn't have to build my own shed. I would have to ask my Grandpa if he would let me do that, but I'm sure he would let me use part of that space for a horse.

I would also be willing to learn how to trim a horses hooves, so I could do it myself and save money.


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## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Oh boy.
> My favorite question.
> 1 Read every thing you can.
> 2 Make a horsey person who is where you want to go your
> best friend.
> 3 Turn down the first 3 free horses (minumum).
> 4 Unless you intend to get paid to work cows do not get a hot
> blood.( thin hoof wall, energy wasters,& always finding some
> way to get hurt or hurt you)
> There is a reason draft horses are called cold blood.
> Mine often fall asleep while pulling huge loads.
> My horse of choice is the Percheron.
> VERY thick hoof wall,low maintenance surprised? Think about
> it their favorite hobby's are eating & sleeping.
> My annual bill is $200 per horse.
> Then again I make most of my own equipment.
> Now for those few times when you want speed and aggression
> remember the Percheron was the favored mount of the knight
> in shining armour.
> You can wake this up.
> I have trained 1 of mine to use his butt to slam through a door.
> And the older/more dominate of the pair has pulled over 1800
> lbs while outrunning an Appaloosa.
> The Appaloosa was under a light rider only.
> Then again until you do wake up that genetic history it's like
> straddeling a school bus.
> And riding out a bucking is hilarious they are just engineered
> wrong to be a rodeo star.
> Now a short word about only having one horse and that horse
> Being lonely.
> GOOD.
> I want any horse that isn't bomb resistant to think of ME as
> their best friend,not some other animal.
> Isolation and controlling the food bowl and affection is so much better than any other training/controlling tool.
> The fact that I have had my beard litterelly freeze to my
> Horses main is 1 heck of a bonding.
> My qualifications are apparent with a camera.
> My horses and dogs will go into situations that would terrify
> most people's pets.
> I have trained 3 Pyrenees dogs to pull a wagon.
> I have trained many horses and dogs for cash money and
> gotten paid every time.
> I live full time in a horse drawn wagon.
> Though I haven't moved in over a year because of MY health.
> I might still have an old video of my boy relocating a small
> building for cash.
> I do still have a video of my horse being exposed to the sound
> of a double barreled 12 gauge at 20 feet.
> You can plainly see his neck/head flinch.
> His feet DO NOT MOVE.
> I DO NOT believe in causing pain because in short order any
> animal will learn you are much less effective at causing pain
> than they are.
> So if anybody is interested in learning I love passing on animal
> skills.
> I'm also not shy to tell a human that I think will be a danger
> to the animal or him/herself to go home.
> The final and most important thing I will say is my OPINION,s
> are distilled from many many other men and women.
> THEY ARE OPINIONS.
> I had 1 horse that had 3 different trainers try to teach it to
> mount the trailer.
> For 3 days I failed.
> On day 4 I played peek a boo and that knucklehead walked
> Right in.
> So let's talk trading/training/economy.
> Don't ever accept a skinny young horse his bone structure has
> been affected for life.
> Well so much for keeping it short.
> Sometimes passions rule !


Those horses are BEAUTIFUL! I've been looking at pictures and videos of them.
-Do you have any videos to share of you and your horses? I would love to see!
-How did you get it to bust through a door?
-And you say they are pretty low maintenance? Including their supplies or no?
-Would they be that good of a trail horse? Because one quality I care most about is being able to walk through the woods with ease. If SHTF, I wouldn't be using roads lol.
-Also, would their tack be more expensive since they are bigger?

Sorry for so many questions! Just eager to learn! 

**Wow, just tried looking some up on Horseclicks and most of them are $1000-$2000???


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## MsSage

> **Wow, just tried looking some up on Horseclicks and most of them are $1000-$2000???


Any GOOD riding horse will be that much. Yes you can get a cheaper one BUT you will have issues to deal with.


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## VUnder

Last weekend a friend of mine went riding with his family, just around their area. No hauling or anything, just left out from the house. When they got back, the wife and daughter were going to race across the pasture. The wife fell off, the horse didn't throw her. She shattered a hand, wrist, pretty much to the elbow, broke some ribs. Finally ended up in LSU Medical in Shreveport getting all screwed back together. She was back home that next morning after being up all night. They couldn't put her to sleep because the broke ribs were affecting her breathing. Finally she went to sleep on the couch. The daughter went outside, the grandmother went back in to check on her daughter, my friends' wife was dead. That woman rode horses all the time. Fooled with them every day. Knew what she was doing. I saw a lots of people crying all last week. 

A guy that I work with now and then had an episode recently. He had a mare that he raised from a baby, owned its mother. Horse showed all the time, competed in events. Loaded that horse in a trailer thousands of times. One night he stepped behind that horse in the trailer, just like many times before. The horse hit him with both barrels full blast. That young fella has a scar as wide as my thumb from his chest to below his belt where they had to rip him open and sew his guts up because the horse busted them.

Be careful around those things. Horses can pull up stumps that tractors can't shake. But, they don't have an on/off switch or a parking brake. Plus, they have their own mind. I love 'em and have had pretty good luck with them. I have only broken a foot, femur, hip, ribs, collar bone, arm, and maybe a little head damage from being knocked by their head or hitting the ground. Other than that, haven't had much trouble. I am leaning toward the pack horse idea. Maybe a wagon. Just say NO to mules, like Nancy Reagan always said.

You could just spend your time helping train somebody else's horse. A lot of horses need riding and the owners don't have the time to ride them. In the mean time, you will be learning and building your own supplies up. If the SHTF, you can always grab an ole horse from somewhere and ride out into the sunset. As long as you know what to do and have the things to do it with, should be good to go. Knowing information is more useful than actually having the "things". I know how to make horse shoes, but it is a lot easier to buy them. But, if the whole thing collapses and there is a need for shoes, I could help somebody out. Just an example.


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## cowboyhermit

I love horses and believe they are a truly sustainable and wonderful source of transport and power.
However, they are not cheap, they eat as much as 3 cows my great grandpa would always say and they tend to get sick or injured a lot more than cattle for instance.
If you simply want some form of transportation in a grid down situation there are many options that would be cheaper, an atv, motorbike, bicycle, and on and on.
The advice everyone has given is good as to the proper care and feeding of a horse being substantial and not something to be entered into lightly.
In the sake of honesty however I just want to point out that it need not cost so much to keep a horse if a person is thoughtful.
In Alberta, Canada there are wild (feral) horses, it gets really really cold up there and they survive and thrive without human help. Shoes on a horse are optional as long as you are aware of conditions. Trimming the hooves is rarely "needed" if the are walking/running enough, at a minimum an owner should know how to fix a hoof. Vaccinations are very easy to do yourself but in our area are frequently not done without negative consequences. Horses, according to our experience do best on a lower quality feed than cows, just old brome and they keep in good condition, like the wild ones are eating through 3 feet of snow. However if you are going to work them they need more, preferably oats.
Anyways the way most people keep horses today is particularly expensive and I see no problem with that, but there are other ways that we should at least know about.


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## kejmack

labotomi said:


> Kejmac. I'm not sure if it's your location, land or something else like raising horses for showing, but we don't spend anywhere close to that on all our animals. We do the vaccinations, hire a local Mennonite (reasonable fees) to do the maintenance like hoof trimming (less often than once a month). The Mennonites have also trained our horses on occasion when we couldn't devote the time.


I am in a very, dry part of TX. We have to feed hay year round here. Equine Senior is $20/bag now. Because I live in the middle of nowhere, the farrier charges a pile of money to come and trim 6 times a year NOT once a month. Even if you do your own shots, you still have to have a vet do the rabies and pay the farm call for that.

When I was in VA, I did not spend anything like this on my animals but living here is different. I was simply posting what I currently pay. Your costs are probably a lot different simply because you get rain.


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## kejmack

Moby76065 said:


> So exactly how much meat is in that $5000 animal?
> Sorry, just thinking.


Moby, my horse is my hobby. Other people spend $5000 on their boat or a motorcycle or their hunting lease or whatever. I bet there are people on this forum who would think nothing of dropping $5K on prepping crap they don't need. I'm kind of offended. I don't question how you spend your money.


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## RaigenB

kejmack said:


> Moby, my horse is my hobby. Other people spend $5000 on their boat or a motorcycle or their hunting lease or whatever. I bet there are people on this forum who would think nothing of dropping $5K on prepping crap they don't need. I'm kind of offended. I don't question how you spend your money.


I agree with what you are saying, about it being more of a hobby. My dad has a boat (like a cabin cruiser) that we hardly use most of the time because he works a lot. Fuel is not cheap for those either. I don't see why my dad wouldn't see a horse in a similar way? He likes boats, I like horses. Ya they are a little pricey but hey, so was/is the boat.. :/


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## labotomi

kejmack said:


> I am in a very, dry part of TX. We have to feed hay year round here. Equine Senior is $20/bag now. Because I live in the middle of nowhere, the farrier charges a pile of money to come and trim 6 times a year NOT once a month. Even if you do your own shots, you still have to have a vet do the rabies and pay the farm call for that.
> 
> When I was in VA, I did not spend anything like this on my animals but living here is different. I was simply posting what I currently pay. Your costs are probably a lot different simply because you get rain.


Sorry about the 8 weeks / month thing. I'm not sure how or why I came up with that.

Do you not think it's misleading to list your costs _without indicating the special nature of where you live_? The OP is in Indiana which doesn't have any area remotely like west Texas. Your list would scare anyone trying to learn information about getting a horse.

If it's that expensive I'd probably opt for a pet tumbleweed.


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## RaigenB

Although the Percheron is a beautiful horse, I don't think it would make a great first horse. I think I'll stick with either a Paint, Quarter Horse, or Fox Trotter. They are more in my price range and are better at trail riding, which is what I want as a discipline.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

1 gelding.
A mare is pissy once a month and just because she did fine
the last 2 years at her time don't mean nothing.
A stud is pissy every time any body else is.
2 picture,s
I can't even figure out how to post a pic here much less a 
Video?
3 battering ram.
It requires a real trust relationship.
Basically get the horse to be your best friend (but you don't
take diddly crap)
Teach it to back and reward heavy.( backing can be a 
punishment )
Then after it can back VERY well in the center of a field 
back it towards a VERY strong wall concrete or at least
block.
Each day try 5 times every day you get closer mark the dirt.
And reward heavy.
Every day you don't make bad talk it don't matter what you
say just the tone (you can punish a horse by reading the list
of ingredients on malt o meal)
Soon the butt will lightly touch YIPPEE YAHOO(cause by this
Time ever body in town thinks your crazy)
When this happens do the best baby talk you ever did.
Candy&brush.(p.s. do not buy special candy NEVER just buy
A 50 lb sack of breeders cubes like for cows and be real free
with them)
Each day ask them to push just a bit harder and longer.
When horse gets pissy cause they push and then kick 
PUNISH.( a foot gets stuck and can't be pulled back through the door leaving you astride a trapped terrified animal a butt pushes
the whole door down.)
Only now do you REALLY reinforce/ccontrol how hard the horse
Pushes.
Sometimes reward for gentle touch sometimes for a saddle 
Slipping shove backwards.
YOU ARE THE BOSS.
Then you need to train the horse that strange noise in its worst
blind spot is no big deal IF YOU ARE THERE.
Then train the horse to back up to a door just barely propped up.
Each door is a bit harder to push down.
If you don't have a concrete wall try a round bale


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## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> 1 gelding.
> A mare is pissy once a month and just because she did fine
> the last 2 years at her time don't mean nothing.
> A stud is pissy every time any body else is.
> 2 picture,s
> I can't even figure out how to post a pic here much less a
> Video?
> 3 battering ram.
> It requires a real trust relationship.
> Basically get the horse to be your best friend (but you don't
> take diddly crap)
> Teach it to back and reward heavy.( backing can be a
> punishment )
> Then after it can back VERY well in the center of a field
> back it towards a VERY strong wall concrete or at least
> block.
> Each day try 5 times every day you get closer mark the dirt.
> And reward heavy.
> Every day you don't make bad talk it don't matter what you
> say just the tone (you can punish a horse by reading the list
> of ingredients on malt o meal)
> Soon the butt will lightly touch YIPPEE YAHOO(cause by this
> Time ever body in town thinks your crazy)
> When this happens do the best baby talk you ever did.
> Candy&brush.(p.s. do not buy special candy NEVER just buy
> A 50 lb sack of breeders cubes like for cows and be real free
> with them)
> Each day ask them to push just a bit harder and longer.
> When horse gets pissy cause they push and then kick
> PUNISH.( a foot gets stuck and can't be pulled back through the door leaving you astride a trapped terrified animal a butt pushes
> the whole door down.)
> Only now do you REALLY reinforce/ccontrol how hard the horse
> Pushes.
> Sometimes reward for gentle touch sometimes for a saddle
> Slipping shove backwards.
> YOU ARE THE BOSS.
> Then you need to train the horse that strange noise in its worst
> blind spot is no big deal IF YOU ARE THERE.
> Then train the horse to back up to a door just barely propped up.
> Each door is a bit harder to push down.
> If you don't have a concrete wall try a round bale


Thank you! Yes I've been told that gelding have the best temperament.
"You ask a mare, tell a gelding, and sign a contact with a stallion." Haha!
When you say pictures, do you mean when I'm looking for a horse, to make sure they have a picture and maybe a video too? If so, I always put that in my search tool. I wouldn't trust an add with no picture!
If it does freak out about a noise, what do I do to calm him down? I'll go ahead and look up a video too.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Percherons are very low maintenance.
They have THE thickest hoof wall in the world.
IMHO they retain their usefulness much longer than any other
horse when ignored for long periods of time.( you get sick much?)

Cheap supplies: not any more than any horse they are all cheap
to equip IF YOU CAN THINK.
I own the same saddle I bought years ago( stay away from 
pretty/leather) nylon is your friend.
LOOK AT A HALTER can you sew by hand?
NYLON THREAD IS YOUR FRIEND.
Once you can make tack give me a holler and I will tell you
How much time you have wasted and how there is a better
way. ( yep onery ain't I)( EARN IT)
Have you priced DRAFT saddles?
You may now begin laughing at all the SILLY people.
Because I'm in your corner.( yep arrogant ain't I)
You must walk tall when you train 2000 lb animals.
(put me in a woman's kitchen and watch me quiver)
(oh lord paper work makes me cry like a little girl)
ANY SADDLE WILL WORK unless you plan on mountain climbing
Then I use a western saddle a breast strap and a butt strap
Just like a pack mule!
Trail horse:
My lungs are very bad I DON'T WALK.
I gave up ALL gasoline vehicles.
My boy can stride up a 4 foot wall with very little discomfort 
to me.
Any log is no big deal.
Stairs are fun.
He will walk his front feet up or sit on the hood of a car.
He can climb very severe grades on loose shale.
( I use to stand in the saddle to trim trees)
To many questions:
GAAAA YOU ARE HEREBY FROWNED UPON MOST SEVERELY.
Feel better?
Don't ever think you can ask to many question of some old
Geezer hiding out in the woods next to a wood stove on a cold day 
who loves the subject you want
to learn
Just be amazed you found one that can operate a smarty 
phone.
( 2 little girls literally beat the crap out of me and then bought
Me a cellphone the day my horse fell off the (small) mountain)
Horse price:
Yep yep yep
TURN THE PAGE SHOP ELSEWHERE !!!! 
Find a dirty junky arena that has draft/ mule auctions 
Go to every auction with ONLY $10 and don't you dare come
Home with a $10 horse that ten spot is your educatin fee.
Pay as often as you can.
The lady at the show behind the counter will collect and give
You a free hamburger and fries.
If your short on money drink water but eat in the cafe.
Open them ears like you got radar.
There is a fella you are looking for.
CAUTION : He is grumpy
He has crap on his boots.
He probably found his hat on the highway.
Hopefully he is there with his wife ( no kids)
He is older than a rock and he lives 1 mile beyond where 
Jesus lost his sandals.
He probably has goats.
IGNORE HIM ask the wife ANYTHING.
Talk about the poor quality of store bought lard ANYTHING
Ask ask ask LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN and then hear.
Go there alone and feel out of place.
Ask if it's ok if you sit with her during the auction.
MIND YOUR MANNERS VERY MUCH.
Find HER passion.
Cody was my first he cost $1500 he was a scrub reject
He has 1 white sock (impossible to match)
He annoyed the crap out of the big time breeders wife because
he don't take crap off tiny horses.
Knowing what I know now boy did they see this idiot coming.
I should have offered $200.
Tazy Cody's partner/little brother  FREE
You need to have 2 saddles on the first $50 not one penny 
more. It's probably leather and coming unstiched at several
places the tree may be broken.
It's crap.
It's the most important saddle you will ever buy/use
You may never sit in it!
If you can THROW it at the horse and he just barely wakes up
Only then is it time to think about riding.
Make him wear it like a hat!
Ok sleep now very tired
If you want more I will try to find my way back here.
If you folks are bored with this dribble.…
P.s. much better pic.be shy.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Shoot just saw your post.
So for your first horse you want a HOT blood ( do you know
what that means hot/cold blood.?)
Every horse on your list is on my dancy list.
Why do you want horses that are spooked by a falling leaf?
I like a strong tough sleepy impossible to intimidate.
I like an animal that has been bred for centuries to the highest
and harshest standard from before they even thought about
medical for horses.
Every busted up ex horse god I know got crippled by some
tiny little hotty.
Well be careful have fun. 
And some day when you are leading your horse up a mountain
look up into the foggy tops for an old old man on a big boy.
I will share the mountain in silence with you.
I just refuse to walk up.
P.s. bring summer sausage I will have cheese


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## RaigenB

I didn't know those would be considered hot. I was just going by what a horsey friend told me. Her and her family have Quarters. She also said that Percherons eat a ton so I would be paying a lot for feed. And that their tack is expensive since they are so big.

I like what you have to say better though, but I've always been told never to go to horse auctions? Also, I hardly get sick haha.

-Get a nylon saddle, ok.
-Learn to repair tack, will do. (Grandma can sew so I can ask her to teach me.)

There aren't any steep mountains here so I don't have to worry about that haha. But I would like to use a western saddle. Is that what you use then?

-So if I want him to trail ride, I just have to practice with him?

-Find the older farmer couple, talk to the woman, ask ask ask, listen listen listen. Is she who I will find out from what horse to get? Or what is the purpose of talking with her?

-Get a crap saddle to throw at the horse. Ok. Is this before or after I get a horse? And what if the horse gets spooked by this, then what?

Also, glad to know I can ask lots of questions haha! Glad you can work a smartphone too!! If I'm ever riding in some mountains, I'll be looking out for you!


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## cowboyhermit

I would just say that nylon isn't necessarily the way to go. I know a lot of people who work their horses every day, or at least most of the week and not one of them has had luck over the long term with anything but leather. We have a leather saddle that goes back 4 generations and it is in great shape, and it has been treated pretty harsh.


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## labotomi

RaigenB said:


> -Get a crap saddle to throw at the horse. Ok. Is this before or after I get a horse? And what if the horse gets spooked by this, then what?




I don't think that's what was meant.

Saddle the horse. Make him wear the saddle often for long periods of time. Make him think it belongs on him. I don't think actually trying to hit the horse with a saddle is the intent, just that when it no longer spooks him, it's good.


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## RaigenB

cowboyhermit said:


> I would just say that nylon isn't necessarily the way to go. I know a lot of people who work their horses every day, or at least most of the week and not one of them has had luck over the long term with anything but leather. We have a leather saddle that goes back 4 generations and it is in great shape, and it has been treated pretty harsh.


Thanks, I'll be on the look out for good quality saddles


labotomi said:


> I don't think that's what was meant.
> 
> Saddle the horse. Make him wear the saddle often for long periods of time. Make him think it belongs on him. I don't think actually trying to hit the horse with a saddle is the intent, just that when it no longer spooks him, it's good.


Lol ok, I wasn't too sure haha


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## *Andi

Never go to a horse auctions ... :eyebulge:

All of our draft horses and my draft pony came from Ohio, Dover & Mt. Hope both have very nice auctions ... the key is to know horses or have some one that does with you. (IMHO )


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## RaigenB

*Andi said:


> Never go to a horse auctions ... :eyebulge:
> 
> All of our draft horses and my draft pony came from Ohio, Dover & Mt. Hope both have very nice auctions ... the key is to know horses or have some one that does with you. (IMHO )


Ok well I know of 2 auctions in Indiana and both don't only action off horses. Drafts are only auctioned in the spring and fall, any other time they are selling all kinds of other stuff. So I guess it isn't really a horse auction only?


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## Momturtle

Don't know why everyone is so down on mules. A trained draft type mule is a creature of joy and a pleasure to work with. True, they are smarter than a horse so working with them can be a little different but they are not as prone to killing themselves in creative ways as a horse, have great feet, are very sure footed and if you have their trust will do a lot of work around the farm as well as serve as a riding animal. They have a reputation of being stubborn since they will not work themselves to death like a horse will. We had one that was 40 years old and still would turn the garden over every year as well as haul logs out of the woods for firewood. He just fell asleep one night and didn't wake up. When we get to a place where we can have a horse/mule -- if I can find a mule I will sure get one. Don't forget a donkey either -- both for riding, hauling and packing stuff out. Not one of those mini ones, a real one. Great little animal.


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## RaigenB

Momturtle said:


> Don't know why everyone is so down on mules. A trained draft type mule is a creature of joy and a pleasure to work with. True, they are smarter than a horse so working with them can be a little different but they are not as prone to killing themselves in creative ways as a horse, have great feet, are very sure footed and if you have their trust will do a lot of work around the farm as well as serve as a riding animal. They have a reputation of being stubborn since they will not work themselves to death like a horse will. We had one that was 40 years old and still would turn the garden over every year as well as haul logs out of the woods for firewood. He just fell asleep one night and didn't wake up. When we get to a place where we can have a horse/mule -- if I can find a mule I will sure get one. Don't forget a donkey either -- both for riding, hauling and packing stuff out. Not one of those mini ones, a real one. Great little animal.


Thanks! What you said is what I've heard about mules, so that's why I had thought about one


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## RaigenB

When it comes to saddle bags on horses, do they make them onto saddles or is it an attachment you can put onto a saddle?


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## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler- I'm trying to reply to your messages but it says your inbox is full and can't receive any more messages until you delete some. I hope you see this!


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Saddle bags are an attachment.


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## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Saddle bags are an attachment.


I ended up Googling it and found it out, they have some pretty cool ones


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Saddle bags are a good project for grandma to help you with
She probably will even be able to make your pattern.
and line up the holes on your bags with your saddle ties.
I have never seen bags and ties that line up.
So my method is to put the saddle bags between the saddle
And pad and try to keep them balanced.
You might make your own bags and sew them to the pad?


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## RaigenB

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Saddle bags are a good project for grandma to help you with
> She probably will even be able to make your pattern.
> and line up the holes on your bags with your saddle ties.
> I have never seen bags and ties that line up.
> So my method is to put the saddle bags between the saddle
> And pad and try to keep them balanced.
> You might make your own bags and sew them to the pad?


Great idea! I need to invest in a sewing machine haha!


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## redhorse

Hello, I am new on this forum, but I thought I'd offer my input as I have been around horses all my life and ride on a daily basis. Costs. Yep, the cheapest part of owning a horse is buying it. A light horse should live to be in the neighborhood of 25-30, 40 is not unheard of years. Draft horses, like large dog breeds, may not live as long. Multiply the years of ownership, and you will have a hefty bill. But its not so bad. I currently have 7 horses, a mule, and a donkey. They are on a 25 acre pasture. Over the past 4 years or so, we haven't had much snow, so they have only needed hay 4 months out of the year. The rest of the year, they are completly self sufficient, feeding on grass. I do not grain unless they have been on a very long riding trip. They have a lien too for shelter (which is almost never utilized by them) and a developed spring that is constantly refilling and draining the overflow, so I never has ice to deal with, even on the coldest winter nights. It is gravity fed, so no electricity either. (Fantastic source of water for me when the power is out). My only expenses are hay in the winter, about $600, wormer (once in the spring after the last big frost, once in the height of summer, and once in the fall after the first hard frost), and shoes. I have an Amish farrier who charges $40 per new set of shoes, and $20 to reset after ten weeks if I haven't worn the shoes out. Most of my horses have excellent feet, and I never shoe them unless we are going for a very long trip somewhere. In the event that someone get cut up pretty bad, they get a tetanus (spelling?) shot. That's it. If you start with quality tack, you will have the expense only once. It should last you a life time with regular oiling and minor repairs. A good saddle pad is essential for the bottom of the saddle and comfort for your horse. If you must but a cheap saddle to start, make sure you do not skimp on the pad if you do much riding. You will regret it if you do. Regarding saddle bags, I was a trail guide for years. I was in the saddle 12 hours a day, 7 days a week spring through fall, and put in thousands of miles. The best saddle bags I have found if you plan on packing anything over 5 pounds are Amish made leather ones. Making your own sound like a good plan  I am not so proficient in sewing  Make sure that what you put on them to attach to the saddle is a rivet with a hole in the center. D rings sewn into the sides no matter how well reinforced will rip loose within the first season. I would not recoment securing your bags to the saddle via the ties attached to the saddle. These are thin strips of rawhide, and also break easily, well oiled or not if you have any significant weight in the bags. I ride in a western saddle that is 'double rigged'. It has heavy D rings for attaching flank starps/cinches. I use plain old baling twine from square bales through the bags' rivets and then through the flank D rings. The twine will last you most of the year, and I have miles of the stuff saved at home. Alway carry extra! Baling twine is like ducktape, it will fix darn near anything on your saddle or bridle in a pinch. Finally, which horse. My favorite is an arabian quarter horse cross. Arabs are 'hot', have wonderful feet, and will go all day over the roughest terrain without breaking a sweat. Quarter horses (do not get anything from the Impressive blood lines) tend to be stockier and quieter. The combination is the best I have ever had in a trail horse. Plus being 'mutts' they are often much cheaper than a papered horse. You can't ride papers  All in all, horses are remarkably sell sufficient critters, and can go over the roughest terrain, swim the deepest stretches of water, and haul but from 0 to full speed in 2 strides. Logs? No problem, jump on over. Horses can jump MANY feet high if properly trained. Mud? Bah. You have all time 4 hoof drive. Up and down steep hills? Have you seen the muscles on the back end of a horse? Quite the motor. Gas? Just hobble and they refil themselves while you are taking a nap or bedded down for the night. Their 'frame' and 'body' will last decades. As you can see, I love my 'Hairy Davidsons'. There is a reason horses have been used by humans for the last several thousand years. Just my two cents, hope it helps you in your search.


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## redhorse

Oh, and mules. I really think they are to smart for their own good! But excellent animals if you earn their trust and respect. And regarding hay, depending on where you live, in an EOTWAWKI situation, I feel I could get by with none over the winter if I had to. They may be thinner than I like come spring, but they can an will paw through the snow looking for grass. If they were fat in late fall, they should make it through. That is my hope, but it is one theory I will not try testing unless I was forced to. Wormer doesn't last for ever no matter how well you store it (so my vet tells me) so that would most likely play a factor also. And those vet bills... After you have had your share of cuts and scapes to doctor, you will be able to do most of your own vet work. Teeth? My vet does them as needed, which is almost never. Horses not fed a grain supplemented diest and are permitted to munch on grass all day tend to wear their own teeth down as nature intended. If I was in a future where a vet was not available, a hoof rasp will knock off the worst of the points that they develop. Not perfect, but good enough.


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## RaigenB

Thank you for that info!!


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## cnsper

redhorse said:


> Hello, I am new on this forum, but I thought I'd offer my input as I have been around horses all my life and ride on a daily basis. Costs. Yep, the cheapest part of owning a horse is buying it. A light horse should live to be in the neighborhood of 25-30, 40 is not unheard of years. Draft horses, like large dog breeds, may not live as long. Multiply the years of ownership, and you will have a hefty bill. But its not so bad. I currently have 7 horses, a mule, and a donkey. They are on a 25 acre pasture. Over the past 4 years or so, we haven't had much snow, so they have only needed hay 4 months out of the year. The rest of the year, they are completly self sufficient, feeding on grass. I do not grain unless they have been on a very long riding trip. They have a lien too for shelter (which is almost never utilized by them) and a developed spring that is constantly refilling and draining the overflow, so I never has ice to deal with, even on the coldest winter nights. It is gravity fed, so no electricity either. (Fantastic source of water for me when the power is out). My only expenses are hay in the winter, about $600, wormer (once in the spring after the last big frost, once in the height of summer, and once in the fall after the first hard frost), and shoes. I have an Amish farrier who charges $40 per new set of shoes, and $20 to reset after ten weeks if I haven't worn the shoes out. Most of my horses have excellent feet, and I never shoe them unless we are going for a very long trip somewhere. In the event that someone get cut up pretty bad, they get a tetanus (spelling?) shot. That's it. If you start with quality tack, you will have the expense only once. It should last you a life time with regular oiling and minor repairs. A good saddle pad is essential for the bottom of the saddle and comfort for your horse. If you must but a cheap saddle to start, make sure you do not skimp on the pad if you do much riding. You will regret it if you do. Regarding saddle bags, I was a trail guide for years. I was in the saddle 12 hours a day, 7 days a week spring through fall, and put in thousands of miles. The best saddle bags I have found if you plan on packing anything over 5 pounds are Amish made leather ones. Making your own sound like a good plan  I am not so proficient in sewing  Make sure that what you put on them to attach to the saddle is a rivet with a hole in the center. D rings sewn into the sides no matter how well reinforced will rip loose within the first season. I would not recoment securing your bags to the saddle via the ties attached to the saddle. These are thin strips of rawhide, and also break easily, well oiled or not if you have any significant weight in the bags. I ride in a western saddle that is 'double rigged'. It has heavy D rings for attaching flank starps/cinches. I use plain old baling twine from square bales through the bags' rivets and then through the flank D rings. The twine will last you most of the year, and I have miles of the stuff saved at home. Alway carry extra! Baling twine is like ducktape, it will fix darn near anything on your saddle or bridle in a pinch. Finally, which horse. My favorite is an arabian quarter horse cross. Arabs are 'hot', have wonderful feet, and will go all day over the roughest terrain without breaking a sweat. Quarter horses (do not get anything from the Impressive blood lines) tend to be stockier and quieter. The combination is the best I have ever had in a trail horse. Plus being 'mutts' they are often much cheaper than a papered horse. You can't ride papers  All in all, horses are remarkably sell sufficient critters, and can go over the roughest terrain, swim the deepest stretches of water, and haul but from 0 to full speed in 2 strides. Logs? No problem, jump on over. Horses can jump MANY feet high if properly trained. Mud? Bah. You have all time 4 hoof drive. Up and down steep hills? Have you seen the muscles on the back end of a horse? Quite the motor. Gas? Just hobble and they refil themselves while you are taking a nap or bedded down for the night. Their 'frame' and 'body' will last decades. As you can see, I love my 'Hairy Davidsons'. There is a reason horses have been used by humans for the last several thousand years. Just my two cents, hope it helps you in your search.


Try hitting enter once in a while and starting a new paragraph. Makes things easier to read.


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## dirtgrrl

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Shoot just saw your post.
> So for your first horse you want a HOT blood ( do you know
> what that means hot/cold blood.?)
> Every horse on your list is on my dancy list.
> Why do you want horses that are spooked by a falling leaf?
> I like a strong tough sleepy impossible to intimidate.
> I like an animal that has been bred for centuries to the highest
> and harshest standard from before they even thought about
> medical for horses.
> Every busted up ex horse god I know got crippled by some
> tiny little hotty.


A Tennessee Walker mare tried to kill me once. She almost did, and tried it with another guy too before she was put down. We call it "sunfishing"; she reared and deliberately fell over backwards, and tried to grind me into the dirt. I jumped but got caught up in the saddle. My left ankle is now a knob of bone and metal, but luckily I didn't get the horn through my chest.

Best horse I ever had was a big ol' grade gelding with a roman nose. Wasn't much to look at, but he was a real sweety. Strong and would go all day. Opened his mouth for the bit and stood sweet as pie for saddling.

My best friend rode a half-Percheron gelding who was a complete sweety-pie too. He was better looking than mine was, but still considered "ugly" by the others. We didn't care, they were both good steady boys. Nothing bothered either one of them.

So pay attention to what Jim says about temperament. These guys can kill you without even trying. You really do want the most sturdy and steady horse you can get.


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## redhorse

I gotta defend the Tennessee Walkers... I have a very sweet mare that is one of my 'kids and dummies' horses. See pic below, one of my students, on her first trail ride ever.  And man can those gaited horses cover some serious miles in a day! 

That said, I once had a percheron spook and come over backwards on me. It wasn't a typical response for the horse, just one of those things. I had a busted pelvis, humerous, and several ribs from that deal. Thank goodness I was bare back. 

Horses are like any other critter. They all have their own personalities, or horseonalities as some clinicians would put it. It can just be the way they were raised, the way they were trained, or just the attitudes they were born with. If they do figure out they have the upper hand, look out. There is a brain between those two ears of theirs.


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## *Andi

I agree ...

Horses are like any other critter. They all have their own personalities ...

(love the picture!)


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## redhorse

Despite being an old thread, I thought I'd post one more comment. 

On another forum, a comment was made that stated, "Wow you have really nice trails out there!" That is not a trail lol... That is one of the dirt roads that is common in my area. I had to giggle. I'm sure this in common in rural areas, but most of the population has never seen such a thing as a dirt road. Wait till they see my deer path trails lol.


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