# They tried to violate me (OPSEC)



## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

So today was a day off for me. I am helping cover Saturday so I decided I was not going to donate a free day to the state. As I sat at my computer desk (taking a break) I heard a knock at the door and the angry growling of 315-some lbs worth of Rottweiler. I answered and it was two men in municipal utilities uniforms. The older of two advised me that my water meter was malfunctioning and stopped reporting. He then said that they just needed into my house to repair or replace it. I said, sorry but this is not a good time for me but I could make it work next week.

[INFO] My water meter is in my utility room which is right next to my Man cave (aka the prepper's paradise). Normally this would be less concerning but I am using this day off to add another gun safe to my man cave. Which means everything that was in the way is now sitting out in the family room, which is where you access the utility room and man cave. So there is no access to the utility room without seeing a pile of guns, ammo, food buckets, etc.[/INFO]

The guy looked at me puzzled and said "Well, we need to come in". I replied politely that he _wanted_ to come in, but now was not a good time however I would be happy to make an appointment for next week. He looked at the younger male, then back at me and said "Listen, your meter is not reporting, we're here, we need to come in. We have the legal right to come in and check on the meter as the meter is owned by the city". I told him he was confused about his legal rights and asked for his municipal ID card. He frowned and then pointed at the municipal truck in my driveway and the municipal patch on his shirt then laughed like he made a joke. I told him to have a nice day and to have his supervisor call me to set up an appointment. I then shut the door.

They rang the doorbell again. I answered again. This time I got "Hey look, we need to fix your meter. If you are going to make it difficult we will just call the city PD over". I invited them to do just that and instructed them to leave my property without delay (which is required to arrest for failure to vacate - a city ordinance). I bid them good day and closed the door. They left. 3 hours later no city LEO had shown up and no supervisor had called. So I called the supervisor myself and advised that I was displeased with the encounter. He agreed and advised that they were required to present their ID upon request. He also stated that he would come out personally and check on the meter at the day and time of my choosing.

While I was really not worried about this incident at all, it did make me a tad more distrusting of municipal employees. It also resulted in my spending 15 minutes looking online at homes in the country versus the city. I then went and installed a 5 drawer high security gun cabinet and returned my preps and supplies to the man cave. Now I just need to buy more handguns to fill that thing! But that's for a different section of the forum.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

tad more distrusting of municipal employees. That's kinda ironic don't ya think? LOL If you remember I had the same issue when they put my new spy errrr water meter in. In order to get to my mater main they had to go through my version of the doom room and I too told them when they could come.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

You discovered why I moved to the country. I'm responsible for my own water and septic tank. My house is all electric and the power meter (on the outside of the house) has a device that allows the power company to just drive by and get the meter readings. So no one as a reason to come on to the property. The only exception is Fedex, UPS, and USPS, but they only drive up the driveway.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

People have strange views on privacy and private property in general:brickwall:
I have done work that involved entering many people's houses and I would have never entered if they felt at all uncomfortable with it.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Tweto said:


> You discovered why I moved to the country. I'm responsible for my own water and septic tank. My house is all electric and the power meter (on the outside of the house) has a device that allows the power company to just drive by and get the meter readings. So no one as a reason to come on to the property. The only exception is Fedex, UPS, and USPS, but they only drive up the driveway.


Our FedEx, UPS, and USPS will call when they have something for me ...  Most folks think I'm joking when I say we live more than a few miles off a secondary road ... Which is also dirt with some gravel here and there. lol

Got to love the country!


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Y'all missed the whole point of this thread....

Sentry found not one, but TWO municipal employees that WANTED to work!


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

cnsper said:


> Y'all missed the whole point of this thread....
> 
> Sentry found not one, but TWO municipal employees that WANTED to work!


You do have a point ... :wave:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

*Andi said:


> Our FedEx, UPS, and USPS will call when they have something for me ...  Most folks think I'm joking when I say we live more than a few miles off a secondary road ... Which is also dirt with some gravel here and there. lol
> 
> Got to love the country!


FedEx and UPS call us when they have a delivery. We meet them down at the pavement (3 miles from home). They won't come up our road. (Fed Ex has in the past but doesn't anymore. UPS won't even try!) Now they both have arrangements to leave small packages at the post office and we pick them up there.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

mosquitomountainman said:


> They won't come up our road. (Fed Ex has in the past but doesn't anymore. UPS won't even try!)


That is it ... lol

UPS won't even try in my area also ...  Fed Ex will try but they call first ... can you meet me here???

They so hate my wine order each month that needs my "X" on the line ...:laugh:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

There are places in town that are drop off points for every courier but getting them to deliver it there in the first place is like pulling teeth sometimes. I get my mail at the post office and I like it that way, once a week I get it and any packages are behind the desk. But other than Amazon, Chapters and a couple others almost nobody online will send to a p.o box without a debate, even if you have to sign for the darn thing anyways.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> There are places in town that are drop off points for every courier but getting them to deliver it there in the first place is like pulling teeth sometimes. I get my mail at the post office and I like it that way, once a week I get it and any packages are behind the desk. But other than Amazon, Chapters and a couple others almost nobody online will send to a p.o box without a debate, even if you have to sign for the darn thing anyways.


I refuse to get a roadside mailbox(bad security-we live in the country) and I catch he11 every time I order something and find out only after the order is confirmed that it is being shipped Postal Service. The post office will return anything addressed to my street address.

I think it is one of the biggest security(or opsec) risks imaginable for everyone and their brother to know exactly where you live.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> There are places in town that are drop off points for every courier but getting them to deliver it there in the first place is like pulling teeth sometimes. I get my mail at the post office and I like it that way, once a week I get it and any packages are behind the desk. But other than Amazon, Chapters and a couple others almost nobody online will send to a p.o box without a debate, even if you have to sign for the darn thing anyways.


The whole concept of people living in rural areas is completely alien to the courier companies, It is a nightmare to get anything sent by courier , even though if the idiots at the order desk, would just put exactly what I give them on the address, every courier service around here subs their deliveries out to the same guy, who knows where everybody lives, except UPS who denies that their trucks go anywhere near us until I give them some truck numbers then they just go silent, and fed X who won't leave a primary highway. (which isn't that bad, because they give the driver your phone number to call when they reach a specific point, so that you can meet them, never had to wait for more than a couple of minutes.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

In case some of you didn't know this. If you have a UPS store in town you can get a box from them and they give you a street address that anyone online will accept even if they wouldn't ship to a PO box.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

Are you sure they ere actually municipal workers and it wasn't just a scam to get into your house? That sounds very suspicious to me.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

cnsper said:


> Y'all missed the whole point of this thread....
> 
> Sentry found not one, but TWO municipal employees that WANTED to work!


They seem to have no issues working as long as it keeps my money flowing into the city coffers. It's when I need something from them, like a pothole filled or a street light repaired or the street plowed, when suddenly they all get infected with lazyaszitis.

I was actually surprised they didn't send 3 people. One to work, one to supervise and one to keep tabs on the bill.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Sentry18 said:


> They seem to have no issues working as long as it keeps my money flowing into the city coffers. It's when I need something from them, like a pothole filled or a street light repaired or the street plowed, when suddenly they all get infected with lazyaszitis.
> 
> I was actually surprised they didn't send 3 people. One to work, one to supervise and one to keep tabs on the bill.


Probably couldn't come up with three people who wanted to work at the same time.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Toffee said:


> Are you sure they ere actually municipal workers and it wasn't just a scam to get into your house? That sounds very suspicious to me.


They did not provide identification, but the license plate on their truck did come back as a municipal vehicle (that was not reported stolen). And their supervisor confirmed there was an issue with my water meter not reporting and a work order had been submitted. Either way they were reasonably safe on the front step, far less so once they got inside the door. Besides the triplets I was about 10" away from Rudy (my 12" short barrel shotgun). She is devastating up close.


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## katen (Aug 25, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> They seem to have no issues working as long as it keeps my money flowing into the city coffers. It's when I need something from them, like a pothole filled or a street light repaired or the street plowed, when suddenly they all get infected with lazyaszitis.
> 
> I was actually surprised they didn't send 3 people. One to work, one to supervise and one to keep tabs on the bill.


My husband is a city guy...when people ask if he works for the city he Always replies "Nope but I'm employed by them!"


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Shammua said:


> In case some of you didn't know this. If you have a UPS store in town you can get a box from them and they give you a street address that anyone online will accept even if they wouldn't ship to a PO box.


No UPS stores out here, that's for sure. Plus we already have the darn mail box and they already have the drop offs in town so it really makes no sense. To top it off, the main courier company out here is owned by the post office and there are still issues.

With regards to the mailbox on the road, a lot of places in Canada got switched to where there is one place on the side of the road with multiple boxes, that has worked out real well


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## Moose33 (Jan 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> They did not provide identification, but the license plate on their truck did come back as a municipal vehicle (that was not reported stolen). And their supervisor confirmed there was an issue with my water meter not reporting and a work order had been submitted. Either way they were reasonably safe on the front step, far less so once they got inside the door. Besides the triplets I was about 10" away from Rudy (my 12" short barrel shotgun). She is devastating up close.


I wondered about these things the entire time I was reading your post. Are they real, or just thugs looking for an easy buck? Somehow I knew you'd protect your self but we all relax sometimes. I expected you'd have to take them dowm, glad it ended quietly.

I would never let two strangers in my house because they "need" to be there. What a couple of dweebs to think their behavior was acceptable.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

Moose33 said:


> I would never let two strangers in my house because they "need" to be there. What a couple of dweebs to think their behavior was acceptable.


I think the scariest thought is how many people would have seen the truck and shirt patches and just let them in?


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

A few months ago we had a plumber come in to replace our whole-house water filtration system (which is probably how the water meter got damaged). I called the plumber, I set up the appointment and I invited him into my home. And I still HATED him being there. I put away anything and everything I could that looked enticing to a thief, hid any and all signs of guns and preps (except the gun I was carrying) and kept him focused in the utility room. The entire time I stood there and watched him with a Rottweiler sitting by my side. She has a certain quiet menacing stare that is far worse than barking or growling. Like she is trying to decided which part will be the most tasty. The other two were upstairs making noise. He asked if the dogs were friendly and I said "As long as I am here keeping them in check".

We have had cases in that past of guys in service type uniforms raping women or burglarizing/robbing homes because people are so conditioned to letting them in. Even some people who would never allow a uniformed police officer in without a warrant would open their door wide for the cable guy or gas company. Or someone posing as such. Sometimes you can get further in with a clipboard than a badge.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Davarm said:


> The post office will return anything addressed to my street address.


?!?!?!!?!? They don't just leave the little orange slip of paper in your box saying the package is waiting for you at the P.O.?!?!?

What the hell kind of Nazis are running the post office where you live?!???!!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Toffee said:


> Are you sure they ere actually municipal workers and it wasn't just a scam to get into your house? That sounds very suspicious to me.


I know it didn't make the news so much... but a couple years ago, someone went through the trouble to make a "fake" air-conditioner service truck that looked JUST LIKE one of the ones used by a major AC/heating service in the area. Not _EXACT_ but very darn close. They would steal the copper air conditioner coils from behind people's houses while they were at work. None of the neighbors would suspect anything cause the truck looks legit. They can be in-and-out in what, 15 minutes?

They didn't get caught until a truck from the actual company was driving by (by chance) and noticed the unfamiliarity! But they got away with it for nearly a year.


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## BillT (Oct 31, 2011)

Well, as one pointed out earlier, I'm sure glad I'm in the country with a Water Well!!

It sure sounded fishy to me too. Not sure where you are located at, but if the rule was not in place, I would call and do what needed to be done to put it in place. I would Not let them in without a phone call and an appointment first. I would also verify the call by my Caller ID or even calling them back if I had to. 

This way if anyone else ever wanted to go in, I would refer them to my arrangement. 

I actually would not let anybody in my house for any reason without an official prior arrangement. 

Glad it worked out OK for you.

Bill


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

I'm just glad it was only OPSEC they tried to violate. Otherwise this would be a completely different and possibly awkward thread. 

If they come back with banjos, don't get out of the boat!!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

If they were looking for the love that dare not speak its name, they would have driven another 4-5 miles where the "more progressive & tolerant" people live. I am sure doors would open quickly over there. But now I need to see if "I have to check your water meter" is some kind of code, like touching feet in a men's room.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

If it had been a plumbing problem I would literally be rolling in the floor laughing now!


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

I love the new profile picture!


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

*Andi said:


> That is it ... lol
> 
> UPS won't even try in my area also ...  Fed Ex will try but they call first ... can you meet me here???
> 
> They so hate my wine order each month that needs my "X" on the line ...:laugh:


Just order wine kits and make your own.  You'll save a lot of money.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

ContinualHarvest said:


> Just order wine kits and make your own.  You'll save a lot of money.


I do make my own but I have a love for "Black River Red" from Duplin... :cheers:


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

My Mom & Dad make a trip to their favorite winery once a year, sort of a mini-vacation and wine purchasing adventure all in one.

Also on a side note, it is illegal in 23 states to ship alcohol in from out of state and it is a felony to ship alcohol in 6 states. I believe there are only 13 states that have open alcohol shipping in and out of state, but even then volume is limited.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

So glad my state saw some form of reason and allows wine to be shipped.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Sentry18 said:


> My Mom & Dad make a trip to their favorite winery once a year, sort of a mini-vacation and wine purchasing adventure all in one.
> 
> Also on a side note, it is illegal in 23 states to ship alcohol in from out of state and it is a felony to ship alcohol in 6 states. I believe there are only 13 states that have open alcohol shipping in and out of state, but even then volume is limited.


We make the trip twice a year... to stock up but I still get a shipment each quarter of new wines. If it is illegal, North Carolina & Virginia can battle it out ... (but) As long as I get my shipment.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

The real thing to learn from this story is never answer/open the door for someone who you do not desire to do business with. If you didn't answer the door what are they going to do? Leave you a note to call and set up an appointment. Win win.

If they are police, then you aren't giving them any pretext for warrantless searches because they "smell" drugs or see a gun (as if that were a crime).

If they are bad guys then you force them to reveal their intentions or go away.

Too many of us live in the leave it to beaver world of answering knocks at you door, personally I tell my family to determine who is coming up our drive or at our door and take cover if you don't know them. Doors work best closed.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Better yet imo is to not let anyone walk up to the front door in the first place, the gate is locked at the road and if someone didn't call ahead they can leave a message in the box


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> Better yet imo is to not let anyone walk up to the front door in the first place, the gate is locked at the road and if someone didn't call ahead they can leave a message in the box


Not always a possibility in all situations but point taken: you want to keep unwelcomed company as far away from your homestead as possible. Personally I like the wide open feel of my acreage and have no plan to fence it in. In some states you could ENFORCE :teehee: no trespassing signs, but sadly not mine. If the SHTF I have plans to block the drive a couple hundred yards from the house and to defend that perimeter, but until then I just won't answer the door.


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## Roslyn (Feb 20, 2012)

Any time my local electric company needs to enter my property in ANY way I receive a letter in the mail, then a reminder postcard. It states the time and day that they plan to be in the area and it gives me a chance to call and change the time etc. Then I usually have a follow up in person by a woman with a company truck, wearing a company t-shirt and her id card around her neck. She states immediately who she is and what it's pertaining to and hands you a card with the company number and her supervisors number. She's very professional and states up front that she will wait while you call if you would like.

Usually the electric companys tree trimmers just come along and trim, but this year they went through the whole letter/postcard thing. Then the company rep came to check on my property lines and if I had anything that I didn't want trimmed or sprayed.

I suspect that too many of their employees are being met with shotguns. I live in a rural area where people take care of their properties and regularly open the door fully armed. My husband and I had to deal with a totally freaked out census man who had a shotgun put directly into his face by our neighbor up the road. Poor guy was really freaked.

I'm sure all of this is being paid for by my service fees tripling in the last two years.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Davarm said:


> I refuse to get a roadside mailbox(bad security-we live in the country) and I catch he11 every time I order something and find out only after the order is confirmed that it is being shipped Postal Service. The post office will return anything addressed to my street address.
> 
> I think it is one of the biggest security(or opsec) risks imaginable for everyone and their brother to know exactly where you live.


I have a similar situation. UPS/FEDEX will sometimes drop my package into the mail. The USPS doesn't do street delivery here so my package gets returned to the retailer. My home and PO Box have the same zip code so I make sure that any packages with my street address have the zip+4 for my PO Box. With the zip+4 the PO will deliver.


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

Had my own opsec problem a few weeks back. First, I live in an apartment complex. Hate it with a passion. Not one thing good about renting an apartment. So I called the office and set up an appointment to have a guy come in and fill in the grout in the kitchen (yes, I know how to do it myself but hey I pay rent so they can come fix it themselves). I asked them to come out before noon the next day because I work nights and go to sleep around then. The next day noon comes and goes so I go to sleep. I wake up around 245 to get something to eat and the maintenance guy had let himself in, fixed the grout, and was now PASSED OUT ON MY KITCHEN FLOOR! 

I damn near shot the bastard. So I call the office and tell them I have a man passed out on my floor, come down here and wake him up cause I don't know how he will react if I do it. She called his cell to wake him up! He wakes up and I here him say "no, I wasn't sleeping....what? He's here?....OK I'll finish up and be there in a bit. I walk out to where he can see me (but not my pistol) and he has the oddacity to say "sorry you heard me clearing my nose." 

I told him to finish and get out. I then spent an hour in their office cussing them out for entering my apartment without calling me; without notifying me they would be late; and for just entering my apartment. Luckily he never went into an area where I had anything. Can't wait to have my own place back out in the country where I belong. Screw city life.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yikes. That would have sent me off the edge for sure. You should have quietly called 911 and said there was a strange man in your apartment laying on the floor. He could have woke up to a taser pointed at his face, a knee in his back and handcuffs on his wrists. Some lessons are best learned through practical experience.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

Mine is 790' away....

Jimmy


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

*UPDATE:*

So today was the day. The day I had scheduled the supervisor from the municipality to come out replace my water meter. A woman called my home at 8am to remind me he was coming. I asked what he looked like and she provided a good physical description. I thanked her and hung up. The new gun cabinet has been installed so the man cave was now secure. My quadruple redundant security measures were all up and running. The kids were in the playroom guarded by our nanny and the most protective of the Rotties (who won't leave the kids even if I wanted her too).

The man showed up and knocked on the door with his photo ID in hand. He was driving a fully marked city truck that displayed city plates. He had a tool box and a water meter with him. He introduced himself, stated why he was here and advised how long it would take him to accomplish the work. I asked if he was afraid of dogs, he said "No". I invited him in. He made it three steps inside the door when he saw the two other Rotties and stopped. I told him they were fine and he had nothing to worry about as long as I was with him and he didn't make any aggressive moves. Oh and don't try and pet them. We walked to the maintenance room and he finished the job in about 15-20 minutes or so. You can tell when someone is casing your home by the way they look around, this guy was on a mission and never strayed from the path I layed out. He never asked any questions and he never commented on anything. When he was done he collected his tools and made a straight path back to the side entrance.

Once back outside he thanked me and then apologized again for the other week. He got in his truck and left. Being just on the rational side of cautious, I went back to the maintenance room and ran over it once with my wireless signal & camera detector. Everyone has those, right? Nothing was found and the room was locked back up. Today was a much better experience and my OPSEC remains reasonably secure. Plus now the supervisor will likely go back to the main office and add to the computer "Large assertive dogs, large assertive owner". Or something to that effect.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Care to recommend a camera and wireless signal detector? Sounds handy.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Just google: wireless signal & camera detector

They are less than $50


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

What he said. They are all pretty much made in China devices with two separate functions. One is a red LED illuminator that will make ANY cameras lens glow and the other is an RF or WiFi signal detector. Note: Turn of your WiFi (if you have it) before testing the unit around your home or office. I have a few similar devices at work that cost a whole lot more and are a lot more effective at longer ranges. But for what it is, these devices work very well.

Mine looks like this, but I have no idea what the brand is. Found this pic at DetectorForAll.com. They are asking $56 but I think I only paid $40 for mine.

http://www.detectorall.com/products/Wireless-Full%2dfrequency-Detector.html










On a side note, I discovered that these existed when a woman called 911 to report a video camera in her bathroom. Her former boyfriend had put a wireless camera in a vent and then ran a power cord down through the vent into the basement. He had been recording her shower and posting it on the internet as part of some ex-wives and ex-girlfriends forum. So she bought one and would check her bathroom daily. Sure enough about 3 days later she found a second camera in her bedroom with it.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Sentry18 said:


> They are asking $56 but I think I only paid $40 for mine. http://www.detectorall.com/products/Wireless-Full%2dfrequency-Detector.html


I SOOO love "Engrish"



> Applications
> 
> Often peopole with bank cards.
> To the hotel for the family trip home crowd.
> ...


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