# Scoping out the neighborhood



## nicklancaster (Feb 25, 2013)

Hello there friends,

A practice I've fallen into when out walking our old brown dog or cycling with our children is to make a mental note 'strategic supplies' around the neighborhood.

For example... a couple of our neighbors have huge stockpiles of cut wood. Should there be a long term survival situation a resource like that could be beneficial.

I also find myself making note of secure buildings, ones that may offer more substantial protection than my own home.

I'm not considering taking these resources without permission of course. Just considering options for catastrophic situations.

Nick


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

A little off subject, but I did a small job for someone a few weeks ago and he was kind of broke. I saw that he sells firewood, so when I billed him, I said that we could trade wood for the bill if he prefers. He jumped on it. 
Although I have no use for wood since I don't have a wood burner yet, I now have 6 ricks of firewood stacked and covered


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Solar cells with charger controls and batteries along the Interstate roads...


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We have to do this frequently but for safety reasons. Lots of meth houses, burglars, and not so nice neighbors and dogs. 

There are some that will pose a problem SHTF; and although my husband has known these people his entire life, we have to prepare for necessary encounters.


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## flyingbrickracing (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm in the same situation as dixiemama,keeping tabs on potential threats to me and mine. Absentee landlords with a high tenant turn over has us wary of anyone new.
The majority are good hard working folks who keep to themselves and I know most on a first name basis but 40%or so are unknown to me or known bad news.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Be called situational awareness, er bein aware a yalls surrondins. I do it all the time. I like ta know what be goin on in my area an I also keep a eye out fer resources an folks I can barter with. Always a good idear. 

By the same note, ya wanna be carefull what ya got sittin out cause there be other folk out there lookin to!


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I think this is something everyone does.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

I agree with all! What REV is referring too is "passive" OPSEC (operational security). This means people could also watch your habits, such as how often do you walk your perimeter of your property line! Do you always use a 4 wheeler for this? If so an intruder could always hear you coming to give them time to hide! Do you do it at the same time every day? Always take the same path or walk the same direction? All of these actions can make you and your property a "hard target" that most will pass looking for a "softer" or less prepared target of opportunity!

As for the METH heads, don't worry in a shtf scenario they won't last to long! But will be extremely dangerous a few days into it though!


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Meth heads are the zombies. The newly created zombies will still be able to blend into normalcy and live longer (those who haven't been strung out totally). 


TheLazyL said:


> Solar cells with charger controls and batteries along the Interstate roads...


I was in chicken fighting country last week and noticed they've built fences around the mobile solar trailers up there.  Down here in the low country they're just left in the open, still.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

Never underestimate a meth head. Almost ten years ago I kicked a long meth addiction. Meth heads are crafty, especially when they are jonesing for the next hit. Some are so far gone that there is no remorse for any harmful action to you, your family, or your community. If things get tough, never turn your back on them and, as much as I hate to say this, be careful about any help you may give them. An inch turns into ten miles if you let it. Knowing your neighborhood and what/who is in it is vital.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> We have to do this frequently but for safety reasons.


So nice to have deer crossing instead of drug corners. The loud racket at night are the millions of frogs and packs of coyotes. Gun shots mean someone is hunting or practicing..

Unfortunately with over a million acres of pristine wilderness there are undoubtedly some meth labs, out there in them thar woods. That probably contributes to your problems. It does not seem to stay around locally and moves to the big cities instead. Up side is if locals run across the labs there are a million acres to put the bodies.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

One meth lab was found less than 2 miles from my home, never knew it was there. A druggie is being foreclosed on cuz he hasn't paid his mortgage so that helps. We have deer, elk and horse crossing signs and most of our noise is bugs and animals although the train keeps a regular schedule. We are slowly but surely cleaning up our neighborhood and I see a few of my neighbors who seem to be waking up to the idea of being prepared.


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

This may seem intrusive but... In the interest of checking out your "neighboring area" I resort to google earth. I will give great perspective on what's there that you can't see from common areas like streets and roads. You can also do Vostok mileage charts on there for exact mileage, feet and so on. It's a great "tool"


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

This line of thought makes OPSEC very important, huh?


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

What's OPSEC? I try to keep current with stuff I have no clue about.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Operational Security. Nother words best ta keep yer mouth shut an yer junk hid!


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

Ah, yes I agree. Can't let all the cats out the bag lol


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> One meth lab was found less than 2 miles from my home, never knew it was there. A druggie is being foreclosed on cuz he hasn't paid his mortgage so that helps. We have deer, elk and horse crossing signs and most of our noise is bugs and animals although the train keeps a regular schedule. We are slowly but surely cleaning up our neighborhood and I see a few of my neighbors who seem to be waking up to the idea of being prepared.


Rural does not always mean idyllic. Nice thing about meth heads is with luck they tend not to live long. Meth cooks their idiot brain and eat the rest.



bigtrain2020 said:


> I resort to google earth.


If we can do that, just imagine what the guberment can do


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Domestic*



8thDayStranger said:


> Never underestimate a meth head. Almost ten years ago I kicked a long meth addiction. Meth heads are crafty, especially when they are jonesing for the next hit. Some are so far gone that there is no remorse for any harmful action to you, your family, or your community. If things get tough, never turn your back on them and, as much as I hate to say this, be careful about any help you may give them. An inch turns into ten miles if you let it. Knowing your neighborhood and what/who is in it is vital.


This is a micro look into a meth addicts head !

We recived a 911 call to a domestic altercation and arrested the husband for beating the crap out of his wife.

I arrested the husband for domestic violence , ( a fourth degree assult).

On the way to the jail, I asked him why he beat his wife, (also a meth addict)?

He told me that she had been gone for two weeks and he found her living with this guy about two miles down the road , brought her home and beat the hell out of her.

I made some remark about understanding how infidelity could cause him to lose it and he corrected me.

He flat out told me that it was because she was getting meth from the guy she was living with and didn't share it with him ! 

Meth is the driving force in a meth addicts life, not food or famiely, just the drug.

He may try to kill you for your meds or something to trade for meth but he has altered his basic drive from survival to getting and staying high.

Fear the insurance salesman next door, he will be the unpredictable element in the equaision when he and his famiely are starving.


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

Never under estimate a tweeter though. Yes their bottom feeders and scum of the earth but tweeter ingenuity is actually impressive. They will be a force to reckon with when shit comes to shove. 1st they don't sleep and are paranoid so staying away from them all together in the first place when shtf will be top priority. 2nd their sneaky bastards and while every one else needs to eat and sleep, they don't. My opinion. Take them out first


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

Sorry, it's tweeker not tweeter. The I phone 5 sucks for auto correct lol. Y'all get the point.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

...........


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

:laugh::lolsmash::lolsmash:


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## Wolf1066 (Jan 1, 2010)

A while back my family and I moved out of Hamilton, New Zealand, away from the street kids, meth heads (it's called "P", here for "Pure" methamphetamine, so they're "P-heads") - or so we thought. 

The lovely rural area in which we stayed was later the scene of the biggest "P-lab" bust in ages. They'd decided hiding it out there would be less risky than in the city.

Later we moved back into the city and our Armed Offender's Squad raided another P-lab just around the corner from us (the AOS were "tooling up" outside our place when I came home from work and pounced on the lab minutes later).

That shit's everywhere, probably - most likely - near where I'm living now.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

nicklancaster said:


> Hello there friends,
> 
> A practice I've fallen into when out walking our old brown dog or cycling with our children is to make a mental note 'strategic supplies' around the neighborhood.
> 
> ...


Heh.I thought I was the only one who did this...I figured I was just being my creepy self. ANYHOO.... any idea who's scoping YOU out?


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## nopolitics12 (Mar 20, 2013)

I'm always eyeing potential "targets" as I travel around my neighborhood and city. There's a few warning signs I've made note of as well as possible supply caches should all go south. And seeing as how I'm moving soon, I'm scoping out the areas that I may be moving into for possible dangers as well as supply/trade locations. 

Here's a tip: keep an eye out for the elderly in your area. You may be able to help them, or if they pass soon after a SHTF they might have meds you could grab up fast.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Our neighborhood is getting better; only have one pot head in close proximity. Thing is, he's an older gentleman, grows his own, doesn't have his customers come to his house and is the nicest man you'll meet. He's been doing it so long and doesn't cause any trouble that the cops just let it go. I've seen him hand over a wad of cash to a couple who were having trouble paying their bills after a job loss. 

Now if we cld just get the trailer court shut down...


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

nopolitics12 said:


> I'm always eyeing potential "targets" as I travel around my neighborhood and city. There's a few warning signs I've made note of as well as possible supply caches should all go south. And seeing as how I'm moving soon, I'm scoping out the areas that I may be moving into for possible dangers as well as supply/trade locations.
> 
> Here's a tip: keep an eye out for the elderly in your area. You may be able to help them, or if they pass soon after a SHTF they might have meds you could grab up fast.


They're more valuable alive, they know stuff you need to!and if you get friendly before the SHTF not only can they teach you, they give you stuff!
*admires German officer's knife*


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

BillM said:


> Fear the insurance salesman next door, he will be the unpredictable element in the equaision when he and his famiely are starving.


True fact, Selco in his war time SHTF experience posts talks about the mild mannered CPA who became a sniper killing anyone who he though had anything of value



dixiemama said:


> He's been doing it so long and doesn't cause any trouble that the cops just let it go.


Pot is legal here, is the strangest thing to walk through a farmers market seeing folks with their card buying their pot with LEO standing right next to them. Has caused no problems at all. Should have been legal ages ago along with most other drugs. Including heroin which is addicting but no worst than the methadone they give to junkies to get off of the heroin. All illegal drugs do is create a source of income for criminals. I don't do drugs personally but that is my choice if others do in most cases I could care less as long as they do not infringe on my rights safety and well being. Or result in my having to support their habit. Of course drugs like meth and dust need to be illegal and IMHO have a death sentence attached to anyone selling it.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

LongRider said:


> True fact, Selco in his war time SHTF experience posts talks about the mild mannered CPA who became a sniper killing anyone who he though had anything of value
> 
> Pot is legal here, is the strangest thing to walk through a farmers market seeing folks with their card buying their pot with LEO standing right next to them. Has caused no problems at all. Should have been legal ages ago along with most other drugs. Including heroin which is addicting but no worst than the methadone they give to junkies to get off of the heroin. All illegal drugs do is create a source of income for criminals. I don't do drugs personally but that is my choice if others do in most cases I could care less as long as they do not infringe on my rights safety and well being. Or result in my having to support their habit. Of course drugs like meth and dust need to be illegal and IMHO have a death sentence attached to anyone selling it.


Heroin addicts are dangerous because their habit is so expensive. Women become prostitutes. Men become burglars or they rob people. Places like the west coast that don't have adequate drug laws have high crime rates because they refuse to put people away. People who think drugs should be legal have no concept of what drugs do to the person taking them and society as a whole. Legalizing drugs is a terrible idea.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

nicklancaster said:


> Hello there friends,
> 
> A practice I've fallen into when out walking our old brown dog or cycling with our children is to make a mental note 'strategic supplies' around the neighborhood.
> 
> ...


I've never done that. I should drive around my neighborhood and look for apple trees.


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## nopolitics12 (Mar 20, 2013)

BillS said:


> Heroin addicts are dangerous because their habit is so expensive. Women become prostitutes. Men become burglars or they rob people. Places like the west coast that don't have adequate drug laws have high crime rates because they refuse to put people away. People who think drugs should be legal have no concept of what drugs do to the person taking them and society as a whole. Legalizing drugs is a terrible idea.


I watched my own mother turn into a crack-shot thief due to her heroin addiction. The woman could steal your wallet while looking you straight in the eye and you wouldn't know it until it was too late. She took whatever she could, from whoever she could just to get her fix. Heroin addicts don't give a damn who they hurt, just as long as they can get their next hit. They are that dangerous; not only to themselves, but to everyone around them.


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## Harvest (Jan 25, 2013)

There are certainly a lot of drug users i have to watch out for in my neighborhood. I live in San Diego county sadly, name a drug and we have a corner that you can find it. It'll make it that much harder to get the hell out of town when shtf. 

In regard to that sniper that was taking people with items of value out, what would you do when you needed to travel? You'd need to carry a pack at least, hat instantly makes you a target.


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## nopolitics12 (Mar 20, 2013)

Harvest said:


> In regard to that sniper that was taking people with items of value out, what would you do when you needed to travel? You'd need to carry a pack at least, hat instantly makes you a target.


As long as you're not panicking or having a breakdown like most people you have a leg up and a head start on the crazy that will break out soon after SHTF.


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

BillS said:


> ..... Places like the west coast that don't have adequate drug laws have high crime rates because they refuse to put people away. .....


It's not just West Coast laws, money plays a big part of the problem. Over crowded prisons release early and budget shortfalls cut police forces. The city of Stockton is bankrupt, it sits off interstate 5 and Hwy 99 which are the gang/drug routes between Mexico, the USA and Canada. Murder rates are off the charts, and it's not alone. It also has one of the highest foreclosure rates. Where I live, meth has been the ongoing problem, mainly break-ins and muggings. Addicts aren't too hard to spot, I give all druggies(including drunks) and their turf, plenty of distance.
I've got to know many of the older WWII generation folks in the neighborhood by walking the dog, they are indeed a wealth of knowledge.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

BillS said:


> Heroin addicts are dangerous because their habit is so expensive.


Exactly right. Because it is illegal 10¢ worth of heroin costs $100 dollars. Which is exactly why I think it should not be illegal. Sorry there is no quick way to address this. Most drugs used to be legal. Up until the turn of the century doctors would treat alcoholics with morphine because a morphine (heroin, codeine, opium et all opium directive drugs) addict can function with a maintenance dose of the drug. Unlike alcohol specific doses of opiate derivative drugs provide consistent predictable results. X amount will kill a X amount of pain or make the addict feel normal, without the craving or withdraws. Allow them to function normally. As evidenced by the tens of thousands of people who take opiates for chronic pain and thousands of methadone addicts who function normally and live productive lives. More than that and the addict experiences the euphoria and high they crave. The bizarre twist is that the legal methadone addiction is far worst than illegal opiate addiction. Methadone causes a wholes series of illness like severe damage to the liver, and spleen. Where as according to the Consumers Union Report of licit and illicit Drugs opiates in and of themselves do not cause physical damage (other than addiction) or psychological damage. It is the fact that they are illegal and the lifestyle heroin addicts live (poor hygiene, diet) to support a $300 a day habit that causes the dilapidated pathetic and dangerous persona we associate with heroin addiction.

Consumers Union Report of licit and illicit Drugs is the most comprehensive unbiased compilation of drug research I have ever encountered. Including many governmental studies that not surprisingly were suppressed when they did not reach the desired conclusions. The government has a vested intrest in keeping drugs illegal. Which is why they propagate a lot of anti drug propaganda like "Reefer Madness" I was shocked by much of what I read and went on to do further study that only confirmed what Consumers Union Report of licit and illicit Drugs said.

To be clear I am not advocating drug use. Having worked with drug addicts in prison I have seen the devastation and misery drugs can cause. It is not something I would choose for myself or anyone for that matter. I do not use any recreational drugs. I think that addiction, alcoholism or being stoned or drunk all the time is a tragic waste of life. A vile and disgusting way to live. I love life and living it to the fullest. To extremes that would get me killed with a quickness, if I was drunk or high. Other people make different choices about what makes them happy, as I think they should be free to do. As long as they do not harm or infringe upon the rights of others. I do not need to like it or understand it. If addicts or druggies want to shoot their drugs and are willing to suffer the consequences of their actions, live their (IMHO) miserable existence. Than so be it. As tragic as that is I much rather they be able to do that than have them out stealing and robbing as they must do now. Because the cost of their habits are astronomical because the drugs are illegal.

Like prohibition banning drugs is a failed experiment. Instead of eliminating drugs it has created a multi trillion dollar black market that funds a myriad of organized crime syndicates, drug cartels and terrorist organizations. Not the least of which is the ever growing governmental agencies that are reaping billions from the drug trade. From Presidential councils, committees and sub committees, Drug Czars, the DEA, FBI, to massive Federal, state, and local drug, gang, organized crime task forces. A gargantuan district, county, state and federal legal system. With federal, state, county, prosectors, lawyers, para legals. Not to mention extensive support staff for each, from clerks to janitorial and food service. Than there are the Federal, state, county, city police forces. Federal, and state prison guards. Federal, state, county and district jailers. Plus all the administrators, support staff, clerks, food service, repair, medical personnel for every jail and prison. Our legal system and prisons are big business. In Washington State, home of Weyerhaeuser, Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Adobe. Prisons and the criminal justice system is the largest and fastest growing industry we have. Costing the tax payer billions of dollars. The United States incarcerates more people per capita than any other country, even the most totalitarian nations. More than Communist Russia, Red China or North Korea ever did. By the most conservative estimates 80% of all US crimes is drug related. What if those trillions of dollars of tax dollars being spent on the drug war the government has no intention of ever winning could be saved? Than there would be the resources available to deal with addiction as a social problem rather than a criminal one. More importantly we could reduce crime by 80% EIGHTY PERCENT over night. Make it 80% less likely that you, your business or a loved one would be robbed for drug money. Isn't that what the priority should be? What is best for the community? Prohibition did not work in the 20's and 30's. It is not working now. Isn't it time to set aside our biases, preconceptions and judgements of how others choose to live their lives and start looking at other options rather than continuing to do the same old thing over and over expecting different results.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Harvest said:


> In regard to that sniper that was taking people with items of value out, what would you do when you needed to travel? You'd need to carry a pack at least, hat instantly makes you a target.


Selco was talking about being trapped in a city that was isolated by war. He suggested being a greyman blending in and they moved at night in the shadows. Being a grey man means not standing out do not wear attention getting attire. In a SHTF scenario that would mean wear or reveal nothing to draw attention to you.

In Selco's scenario few ventured out in the open or during the day. IMO if you need to travel after SHTF. Are not at your self sustaining homestead when SHTF you are a dead man anyway or at best reduced to a meager subsistence hand to mouth existence


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

LR, I have to disagree. My mom is a probation and parole officer. She has had people come through her office that were on heroine or mushrooms and they can no longer function. Some also have issues where even sober, they have halucinations the rest of their lives.


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## bigtrain2020 (Mar 20, 2013)

And there are drug addicts that function just fine, and hold down good jobs. Not all addicts are bad or a menace to society. Some are very productive and may even be people you know. Most are bad, I won't argue that but you can't classify every user as a bad person. That's like saying everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Toffee said:


> LR, I have to disagree. My mom is a probation and parole officer. She has had people come through her office that were on heroine or mushrooms and they can no longer function. Some also have issues where even sober, they have halucinations the rest of their lives.


People unfamiliar with drugs have all kinds of misconceptions about their effects and long term consequences. Mushrooms and heroin are two very different drugs. Not drugs that you see mixed normally. As each diminishes the effect of the other. They also tend to draw different kinds of users. Heroin does not cause hallucinations with use or afterwards. Mushrooms are hallucinogenic but flash backs are an urban myth. Unless the user has a preexisting mental illness like schizophrenia than the drug can exacerbate that condition which can cause reoccurring hallucinations. Not because of the drug but because of the mental illness. LSD was a is a hallucinogenic that was initially considered as a possible treatment for schizophrenia. Hallucinogens Peyote,mushrooms, LSD et all are not addictive. Hallucinogenic use or experimentation tends to be rather short term as the effects although dramatic do become some what boring and predictable for lack of a better explanation. Apparently watching your friends face melt off is entertaining so many times before it becomes old hat.

Nor do opiates have any of the long term effects that you describe. Although smoking opium does cause a hallucinogenic dream state as depicted in Alice In Wonder Land, Edgar Allan Poe poems and Hieronymus Bosch paintings (though his visions may also be attributed to schizophrenia).

My guess is that your mom encountered people who were mentally ill and had used illegal drugs to self medicate. Which is not uncommon. Many of the people, the combat vets with PTSD I worked with in prison used drugs and alcohol to self medicate becoming addicts and alcoholics in the process. A few of them were ding dong gone bat shit wings nuts but not because of the drugs.

I am not saying that drug use does not have inherent risks. There are risks that the user chooses to accept. Risks that I believe is their right to take if they want to. Not ones I would opt to take but that does not mean others should not have the right to do so if they wish.

That said there are drugs that are truly dangerous to the user. That do cause insanity and destroy the human body. That can turn a healthy 20 year old super model into a grotesques toothless eighty years old paranoid schizophrenic witch, within a year. Those drugs are deadly toxic poisons and I think those that sell them should be dealt with accordingly. With execution being the standard penalty for anyone selling toxic poisons for human consumption.



bigtrain2020 said:


> And there are drug addicts that function just fine, and hold down good jobs. Not all addicts are bad or a menace to society. Some are very productive and may even be people you know. Most are bad, I won't argue that but you can't classify every user as a bad person. That's like saying everyone who drinks is an alcoholic.


Agreed I think we need to get away from making judgement calls about how people pursue happiness. Live and let live. As long as they are self supporting doing their fair share and not infringing upon the rights of others. The government needs to stay out of their business.


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