# Sooner better than latter



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Its often asked if preppers DESIRE the end of the world as we know it. I have in the past answered that perhaps I do, because I believe reset may be the only way to restore the virtue that once made our nation great. 

However, this evening I was just thinking: if you consider TEOTWAWI to be inevitable, the wouldn't sooner be better than latter?

There are lots of natural events that could, have, and will adversely effect the human race, however, as many here believe, although not many have effectively verbalized, at the core of why we are particularly concerned is the technologization of human life in in the west. As I have said elsewhere, although many world ending dangers existed in other centuries, the people in those centuries were much more apt to be able to survive without society. And as time goes on technology adds to things like CME or super-volcanoes are disasters like EMP and atomic bombs, even as it takes away our ability to cope with the effects of these disasters. Technology creates greater and greater dependance and specialization over time, and many technologies are themselves hazardous if not effectively controlled by...more technology.

Of course growning up in the 80s there is the ever present threat from cyborgs and computers systems... but even if "skynet" does declare ware on us isn't more and more of the technology out there at best a threat to human life if and when the SHTF?


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

Padre - IMO, it is not the technology as much as the dependency on the technologies that separate us from being self dependent. Dependency on Uncle Sugar, modern electrical technology, drugs, questionable people, etc., is what leads to the inability to fend for oneself in any environment.

Personal and vocational skills can be learned that allow us to survive and thrive going forward. NOW is the best time to begin acquiring a strong skill set.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Let it happen soon. My country barely has any resemblance to the one I grew up in.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

.
We have had this discussion here before.
.
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Basically, you WANT the crash sooner than later - - because all of the infrastructure like bridges, water mains, roads, etc. are all still in pretty good shape. .
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If the collapse happens after everything is in a state of disrepair, it would be MUCH harder to recover.
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.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

No my thought is that the more technology developes the worse things will be if we colapse. 

No I am not talking about the end of the world, just the world as we know it. 

And no I don't just mean dependency although that is a major part of it. I mean think about nuke plants, what a mess they will make if they melt down. A huge source of vulnerability is interconnectedness which seems to be increasing exponentially. Next they are talking about robot replacing people, which is both a dependency issue and makes the world in general more dangerous (hasta la Vista bebe?)


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

And so I wonder if you agree, and if you have any other thoughts about modern innovations that are perilous to our survival. 

E.g. flurescent bulbs which require a hazmat team if broke...will the be used as poor man's chemical weapons?


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

hiwall said:


> Let it happen soon. My country barely has any resemblance to the one I grew up in.


I'll vouch for this statement. In my 72+ years on this planet these last few years really have no likeness to what I grew up in, it sickens my heart to see such a great gift squandered. My wife and I strive to be constantly grateful for all we have in spite of the bad stuff.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Padre said:


> No my thought is that the more technology developes the worse things will be if we colapse.
> 
> No I am not talking about the end of the world, just the world as we know it.
> 
> And no I don't just mean dependency although that is a major part of it. I mean think about nuke plants, what a mess they will make if they melt down. A huge source of vulnerability is interconnectedness which seems to be increasing exponentially. Next they are talking about robot replacing people, which is both a dependency issue and makes the world in general more dangerous (hasta la Vista bebe?)


Lately Stephen Hawking has been warning about the dangers of the use of AI. Drones that do their own targeting is certainly in line with the fictional Terminator movies mention of Skynet for it's drone system.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

My take is that the dependency on technology makes us less capable of thinking and doing for ourselves. Things such as problem solving and creative thinking to solve a more complex problem or to generate a formula or theorem for proactive thoughts.

GPS, or I don't have to think, I have a computer to think for me. 

Apps of every kind, or I don't have to relate to people and can be completely anti-social.

(Also) I don't need to properly communicate with literal and vocal language. 

When it breaks, it is replaced. No repairs needed. Cars so "high tech" they cannot be maintained and repaired by "low tech" means.

When the bough breaks and the cradle falls...who will know how to locate ores and raw material? Who will be able to extract the ores and process it? Who will know how to use the refined ores and forge into useful tools and materiel? 

Is this along the thoughts of the OP?


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

VoorTrekker said:


> My take is that the dependency on technology makes us less capable of thinking and doing for ourselves. Things such as problem solving and creative thinking to solve a more complex problem or to generate a formula or theorem for proactive thoughts.
> 
> GPS, or I don't have to think, I have a computer to think for me.
> 
> ...


Songs and children's rhymes, in these last few years I have come to see that many were not for children but for telling what might happen if people keep doing stupid things. To me Humpty Dumpty is a perfect example of our economic system. Speaking of knowing of how do things, here in Oregon, the highway department has been repairing bridges and I heard that some contracts went to Chinese contractors, why? Is it because there just isn't people in this country learning those kind of trades anymore? Do we even have wood and metal shops in schools?


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

I remember in wood shop (1970's) we were taught outdated methods for industrial labor in metal shop and not too useful woodshop. Not once were we taught how to use handtools. Power shop floor tools and machinery, yes. 

School was to prepare the next generation of minimum wage earners for the rich factory owners, not for the students.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

One of the trains of thought I have heard espoused is that when/if TSHTF, we will end up living more like humans lived in the 1500s than in the 1800s, as most folks believe.
The reasoning is that most of our society is so divorced from the land and ignorant of useful living skills that we will be living in the neo-dark ages.

That will likely happen in many areas, in my region where Amish are well represented and already live daily as if they are in the 1800s, using draft animals and hand tools, with no electricity run into their houses, an 1800s type lifestyle is possible.

And, I fully agree with parts of what Padre is saying about the continuation of technological advancements, just look at the NSA's ability to keep tabs on our daily lives. There are always entities that will use any means necessary to achieve their goals, never even considering the legality or ethicality of their practices.

I do not hope for TEOTWAWKI, but I am preparing for many different possibilities for our future.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

I've never put much thought into whether or not TEOTWAWKI would be better if it came tomorrow. 

I guess the one upside to a TEOTWAWKI that comes later would be more time for us to prepare now. I never feel prepared enough and the more time I have to prep (both learning technical skills and gathering supplies) the better. 



Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum. Please forgive typos. 

"I will fear no evil, for the valley is mine and so is the shadow."


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

ras1219como said:


> I've never put much thought into whether or not TEOTWAWKI would be better if it came tomorrow.
> 
> I guess the one upside to a TEOTWAWKI that comes later would be more time for us to prepare now. I never feel prepared enough and the more time I have to prep (both learning technical skills and gathering supplies) the better.


Prepare yes, but eventually in a TEOTWAWKI preps will fail and you will have to go back to life circa 1800, or 1500, or 800. So the question is, when your 1, 2, 10, or even 20 years of food stuffs fail, and you have to go back to hunting, gathering, or farming, what kind of world will you find? A world of killer robots, a post EMP world, a world full of loose NBC weapons, a world full of Chernobyl and Fukashima style wastelands? We already have the ability to destroy the face of this earth, it seems as if the trend in technology is to keep becoming more and more powerful, and ubiquitous, and thus more damaging to the world around us.

At what point is the benefit of more time to prep offset by the quality of the world that is being created? Of course I think its not just a matter of technology but cultural, society, and moral decay, also infrastructure as another poster suggested, and economic destabilization.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

ras1219como said:


> I've never put much thought into whether or not TEOTWAWKI would be better if it came tomorrow.
> 
> I guess the one upside to a TEOTWAWKI that comes later would be more time for us to prepare now. I never feel prepared enough and the more time I have to prep (both learning technical skills and gathering supplies) the better.


I think that if one were to research this, you'd find that even many who think they are well prepped would actually like more time for a more refined prepperation. Thing is, those who are just coming on line, prep wise, probably are in panic mode, wishing they had a lot more time. Sorry to say there will be some very sincere preppers that may end up short in prepping and that is where the term delayed gratification comes into play, learning to sacrifice on things that in the end, don't matter, things like electronics, fancy motorcycles, cars or trucks that my not work after a CME or EMP. If possible repair appliances and vehicles rather than dumping a lot of money into new stuff. My wife and I get most of our clothing out of St. Vincent, Good Will and other second hand stores, my wife has often found clothing that has never been worn. She's patched my work pants so many times that some have areas on them that look like hot pads. I retired in 2002 and I'm still using many of the pants I had for years then. We don't have any fancy cell phones, just one Net Ten that we buy time and months, it stays off except for occasional calls to see if friends are home while we're out and about or if it's needed for an emergency. We don't wish bad things to happen to innocent people but the truth is, and this is just my feeling, the longer things are put off the worse it's going to be. Problems are not being solved by those empowered to do so and so they fester and really get bad, economics is at the top of that list but there are many others. Prep while you can, sacrifice on things for your greater good, you may just find that you can do more than you think you can. In the end, none of us really knows when the TSHTF, so do the best you can while you have the time.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

Padre said:


> At what point is the benefit of more time to prep offset by the quality of the world that is being created? Of course I think its not just a matter of technology but cultural, society, and moral decay, also infrastructure as another poster suggested, and economic destabilization.


I think we may have passed a critical point where the economic collapse would have had ideal timing. The longer it is delayed the worse the outcome will be and we have a mini ice age coming up. Most people would agree that a majority of the people wouldn't survive the first few years after a major event such as a currency collapse or power grid failure on a national level (either by natural or man made causes). However, most people wouldn't survive the upcoming mini ice age either if what the scientists are saying is correct. An economic collapse now would actually increase the survivability rate for some because it would give them a few years to prepare for it.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

The thing is I hope TEOTWAWKI never comes. I hope that all the preps I've made never ever get used. I hope that 50 years from now my kids clean out my house when I'm gone and find a hell of a lot of dried beans that never got used. 

But if the s**t does hit the fan, I'd rather it be a little later. Yes some preps will eventually run out, like stored food. That's why I have resupply plans and the knowledge to preserve food I grow and raise. Just because stuff eventually runs out doesn't mean I don't want more time to continue to prepare. I try to spend about 50% of the time I spend prepping learning new things to make me more sufficient.



Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum. Please forgive typos. 

"I will fear no evil, for the valley is mine and so is the shadow."


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## Alfred_E_Neuman (Dec 5, 2014)

To Padre's Original Post: I do not find myself wanting the end to come about, but I fully know if it were to happen tomorrow or 10 years from now, a lot of good folks are going to get hurt or worse. Nothing we can do about that. Even those who do prepare themselves might get into trouble just being at the wrong place at the wrong time. 
I joke I will survive some terrible event, only to get done in by some small nick I get on my big toe!
I do agree with those who posted about the dependency on technological advancements. I try to walk my fields every day to just see what is going on even in the winter. I know of more than afew farmers who would never consider walking, using their tractors the way some people in retirement communities in FL use golf carts! They miss so much by not walking the land and understanding what is going on. Take away all those technological goodies and can we survive even a 1800s like lifestyle? Makes me wonder if we can.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

@ Elinor that is an interesting video, I chased it around a bit, way more science their than "Global warming" had in all the years they were lying, ops I mean reporting it . 

If Casey et al are even close in their forecasts, the heard will definitely thin a bunch. and mostly those who refuse to work.


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