# Countries recalling gold



## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

http://rt.com/business/209591-gold-europe-gold-repatriation/

*The Netherlands has moved $5 billion worth of gold from New York, and some are calling for similar action from France, Switzerland, and Germany.*

The financial crisis in Europe is prompting some nations to repatriate their gold reserves to national vaults. The Netherlands has moved $5 billion worth of gold from New York, and some are calling for similar action from France, Switzerland, and Germany.

An unmatched pace of money printing by major central banks has boosted concerns in European countries over the safety of their gold reserves abroad.

The Dutch central bank - De Nederlandsche Bank - was one of the latest to make the move. The bank announced last Friday that it moved a fifth of its total 612.5-metric-ton gold reserve from New York to Amsterdam earlier in November.

It was done in an effort to redistribute the gold stock in "a more balanced way," and to boost public confidence, the bank explained.

"With this adjustment the Dutch Central Bank joins other banks that are keeping a larger share of their gold supply in their own country," the bank said in a statement. "In addition to a more balanced division of the gold reserves...this may also contribute to a positive confidence effect with the public."

Dutch gold reserves are now divided as follows: 31 percent in Amsterdam, 31 percent in New York, 20 percent in Ottawa, Canada and 18 percent in London.

Meanwhile, Switzerland has organized the 'Save Our Swiss Gold' referendum, which is taking place on November 30. If passed, it would force the Swiss National Bank to convert a fifth of its assets into gold and repatriate all of its reserves from vaults in the UK and Canada.

"The Swiss initiative is merely part of an increasing global scramble towards gold and away from the endless printing of money. Huge movements of gold are going on right now," Koos Jansen, an Amsterdam-based gold analyst for the Singaporean precious metal dealer BullionStar, told the Guardian.

France has also recently joined in on the trend, with the leader of the far-right National Front party Marine Le Pen calling on the central bank to repatriate the country's gold reserves.

In an open letter to the governor of the Banque de France, Christian Noyer, Le Pen also demanded an audit of 2,435 tons of physical gold inventory.

Germany tried and failed to adopt a similar path in early 2013 by announcing a plan to repatriate some of its gold reserves back from the US and France.

READ MORE: No 'gold rush': Germany keeps reserves in the US

The efforts fizzled out this summer, when it was announced that Germany decided to leave $635 billion worth of gold in US vaults.

Germany only keeps about a third of its gold at home. Forty-five percent is held in New York, 13 percent in London, 11 percent in Paris, and only 31 percent in the Bundesbank in Frankfurt.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Hmmm.

Local wars or whatever dictates storing a countries gold in a safe place like another country.

Now bringing that gold back home is safer? Does that mean the county were the gold WAS stored is no longer considered trustworthy?


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Hmmm.
> Now bringing that gold back home is safer? Does that mean the county were the gold WAS stored is no longer considered trustworthy?


That would be my first guess.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

*Where is Germany's Gold?*

Where is Germany's Gold?
Germany has asked for it's gold back as long as a year ago and to date has only received a portion of it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs.../why-germany-wants-its-674-tons-of-gold-back/

*Why Germany wants its 674 tons of gold back*
By Neil Irwin January 16, 2013

Germany's central bank will relocate 54,000 solid gold bars, worth about $36 billion, from deep underneath the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and the Banque de France in Paris to the safe confines of German soil -- vaults at the Bundesbank's Frankfurt headquarters.

The Bundesbank understandably offered few details as to the timing of or methods to be used in the move, which presumably will occur with secret, well-guarded trucks (from Paris) and in numerous small batches by plane from New York. Presumably, it will make sure the villain from "Die Hard: With a Vengeance" is accounted for before the move, along with the "Ocean's 11" gang. And whatever happened to Auric Goldfinger?

But while the notion of billions of dollars in gold bars being transported across the Atlantic and the Franco-German countryside triggered a thousand heist jokes on Twitter, the decision reflects a real, and somewhat disturbing, current in German politics.

The backstory: Germany built up its gold reserves as the flip side of running trade surpluses in the decades after World War II. In practice, much of the world's gold is stored in vaults underneath central banks: eighty feet below street level and hard against the bedrock of lower Manhattan at the New York Fed, in the ancient vaults of the Bank of England on Threadneedle Street in the City of London, and so on. This is highly convenient; when one government or central bank sells its gold to another, the precious metal can be rolled from one cage to the next, with none of the risk that comes with transporting it across oceans. (For more about the New York Fed's gold storage operation, click here).

The system, of course, is built upon trust -- that the New York Fed won't suddenly be taken over by people with no respect for those nations' property rights and seize it for their own use, and that the central banks won't lie about how much gold is in their vaults. Among the world's central bankers, that trust runs deep, and most governments are content to keep their gold wherever it is most convenient. The exceptions are governments that have reason to fear that their gold stocks could be frozen as part of a conflict, such as in Iran and Libya.

So what the heck is Germany doing? It is a nation with a deep-seated fears about the stability of its currency, no doubt in part the legacy of the Weimar hyperinflation of the early 1920s. The fixation on its gold comes at a time when the world of finance seems in chaos. Germans are being asked to help rescue Greece and other European nations with troubled finances. The European Central Bank has bought bonds from some of those nations, which Germans widely view as tempting enormous inflation. Against that backdrop, it is perhaps not shocking that there is political resonance to the theory that the New York Fed and Banque de France may be putting one over on the Bundesbank and that some of Germany's gold might actually be missing.

(This is, it should be noted, not solely a German fixation. There are plenty of Americans who are convinced that the U.S. gold reserves in Fort Knox are missing.)

So, essentially, the Bundesbank is offering a sop to the conspiracy theorists by relocating the gold to German soil. The nation just has to hope that nothing goes wrong during the journey.

"In Germany, a lot of emotion is attached to the topic of gold reserves," Bundesbank board member Carl-Ludwig Thiele said in a press conference announcing the move. The same could be said of Americans.

*Germany Gives Up On Trying To Repatriate Its Gold, Will Leave It In The Fed's "Safe Hands"*
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...triate-its-gold-will-leave-it-feds-safe-hands

Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/23/2014 15:25 -0400

Several months after it was revealed that Germany was able to only recover a miserable 5 tons of its gold in all of 2013 (under 10% of the 84 tons it was scheduled to repatriate), Germany appears to have given up entirely in its attempt to recover gold which simply is not there, and as Michael Krieger reports, citing Bloomberg, has decided to keep "it" (by "it" we don't mean the gold since that clearly has not been at the Fed for decades, but merely the paper promises of ownership: for more see China's gold rehypothecation scandal and how the unwind works) at the NY Fed after all. That is to say, in the "safe hands" of former Goldmanite Bill Dudley.

Via Mike Krieger's Liberty Blitzkrieg blog,

Just last week, I published a post titled, Video of the Day - "End the Fed" Rallies are Exploding Throughout Germany, which subsequently went viral. Interestingly, only a few days later we find out that Germany's very own criminal political class has decided it will continue to store the nation's gold in New York rather than bring it back home as had been the intention. It's quite ironic that just as protests against the fascist Federal Reserve are spreading throughout the land, the political class officially decides to keep Germany's treasure across the Atlantic, in care of none other than The Fed itself.

To be fair, this merely seems like a way for Angela Merkel and the rest of her German cronies to save face. After all, it was very clear that the Federal Reserve had already told them "no" when they asked for the gold back in the first place. Why else would it take almost a decade to transport the gold from the U.S. to Germany, which was the latest repatriation schedule.

We learn from Bloomberg that:

Germany has decided its gold is safe in American hands.

Surging mistrust of the euro during Europe's debt crisis fed a campaign to bring Germany's entire $141 billion gold reserve home from New York and London. Now, after politics shifted in Chancellor Angela Merkel's coalition, the government has concluded that stashing half its bullion abroad is prudent after all.

"The Americans are taking good care of our gold," Norbert Barthle, the budget spokesman for Merkel's Christian Democratic bloc in parliament, said in an interview. "Objectively, there's absolutely no reason for mistrust."

Ending talk of repatriating the world's second-biggest gold reserves removes a potential irritant in U.S.-German relations. It's also a rebuff to critics including the anti-euro Alternative for Germany party, which says all the gold should return to Frankfurt so it can't be impounded to blackmail Germany into keeping the currency union together.

The Bundesbank, Germany's central bank, sent a delegation to the New York Fed's vault in 2012 for spot checks on the hoard. As the gold's guardian, the Frankfurt-based Bundesbank is obliged to ensure its safety. It says it's sensible to store part of the reserves outside the country so they can be swapped more easily for foreign currency in an emergency.

This last sentence is absolutely incredible in its Orwellian irrationality. Swap gold easily for foreign currency? Foreign currency can be conjured up in infinite amounts at will by crooked bankers in suits with phony smiles and calming words filled with complex economic jargon. So Germany needs to be able to swap its gold for that? Well, it seems many nations are falling for this simple, yet effective scam, as I outlined in my post: Ecuador to Transfer More Than Half its Gold Reserves to Goldman Sachs in Exchange for "Liquidity."

German gold reserves, the second-biggest in the world after those of the U.S., totaled 3,386.4 tons on March 31, according to World Gold Council data. Due to German postwar history, the biggest part is stored at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York; the rest is in London, Paris and Frankfurt.

"Right now, our campaign is on hold," Peter Boehringer, a Munich-based euro critic who co-founded an initiative to bring home all of Germany's gold in 2012, said in an interview.

Right now and forever. Sorry suckers. This guy promises everything is just fine.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Think about it, do you want your financially incompetent and totally broke BNL in charge of all your gold?


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

If there's a financial SHTF event, an IOU for gold may not be worth anything.

I'd rather have it in hand.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I would not trust the U. S. either! Look at how hard the FED is fighting any kind of audit. They have fought against an audit of their physical gold reserves for longer. How did they put it...'It doesn't matter what is actually in the vaults, what matters is what the books say is there.' or something to that extent.

And the logistics of moving all that physical gold? Wasn't it Lybia that had 144 tons of gold in their vaults before the invasion... err... coup? And didn't it disappear all in one night, taken by the U. S. to keep it safe at the FED? A tin foil hat person might question timing here. Seems Mideast countries had coups and their physical gold removed by the U. S. 'for safe keeping' about the time Germany was demanding its gold back.

Moving it is not an issue. Finding enough physical to cover what they say they have is. All that paper gold being traded is fractional. Each ounce of paper does not represent an actual ounce of physical gold, investors understand this. They only have enough physical on hand to cover what investors want to receive as physical, it counts on not everyone wanting it all at once or the system implodes because there is not that much physical covering the paper. Germany wanting all their physical back was more than the system could tolerate. Personally, I doubt there is even that much physical in the vaults to cover it all. Once the paper Ponzi was created, there was no reason to actually have all that physical on hand. Physical was moved to 'remote storage' or 'leased out' and kept on the books at the FED. Think of how any 'lease' works. You take physical possession, the leasing company keeps it on their books as they still actually own it. As long as you maintain the terms of the lease they do not care what happens to the item until the lease expires.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Currencies have been failing around the world (ukraines today) The brics, and opec is getting away from the petrodoller in trade, russia and china and any country that buys and sells stuff to and from them are setting up a new SWIFT for international commerce, getting away from the swift that the us $ is already been using, central banks dont trust eachother anymore because they are all shady. Our country is way in debt using a currency backed by what?? debt...

gold and silver will always be real money and soon we will see a currency (s) backed by it again and it wont be ours ..the dollar is dying and everyone knows it. Its just a matter of time when it all falls apart and that seems to be probably soon.. 

I just wonder if the powers that be will create some distraction or war before hand and blaim a currency cirsis on that or ?? 

Interesting times...


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Sometimes your own country might not be the safest place to store the gold. Rumor has it that all or most of Ukraine's gold disappeared.
Countries want real gold for the very same reason many preppers are buying gold and silver - because they all know the day of fiat money is coming to an end.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Given the probability that our gold reserves don't equal our commitments, how do we, as preppers, prepare our finances?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Caribou said:


> Given the probability that our gold reserves don't equal our commitments, how do we, as preppers, prepare our finances?


Good question! Gold and silver, to the prepper, are not "money", they are a store of wealth. Prepare your finances by using todays dollar value, to buy what you need for tomorrow. My favorite example is my TP. A few years ago I could buy a 12 pack of my favorite brand for $4.99, $3.99 on sale. I bought the crap (pun intended!) out of it and set in a good long supply. Today, its regular price is... well.. was I haven't checked in a year or so... but it was $8.99 on sale. I would be amazed if the size of each sheet is not smaller now and the actual sheet count per roll is less. For a jump in your face example, Bacon! Remember when each package was a pound? Pretty standard, go buy a pound of bacon, one package. Now they are 12 ounces and still cost more. Of course bacon is not something you can buy a 20 year supply of today and expect it to be worth anything in a few years, it is perishable.

For goods and sundries, buying with todays dollars, at todays dollar price, will save you paying tomorrow's dollar price with tomorrow's dollar value.

Invest in owning, outright a piece of land or a home. Yes, you will still always owe taxes on it, but the mortgage vampire is out from under you. After you have what you consider enough "supplies" to last, put what extra "money" you have into something that will store value. Traditionally, in the history of the financial world, that has been gold and silver. Yeah, yeah, the price has been falling, going up, going down.... That has nothing to do with reality, it is doing that based on Fiat money, or created currency that basically has no value. Whatever happens to Fiat currencies, or debt based money, PM's will always have a value.

Look at what has happened to Fiat currencies in history. When they fail, their value goes to zero. Think having to bring a wheelbarrow load of bills to buy a loaf of bread. Next day, children are building play houses out of stacks of them. Gold coins, still had a value. Sure, maybe not the $1,200 an ounce you paid for them, but you could still use them to trade for goods. A loaf of bread costs 10 million fiat dollars, but you could also buy one for one ounce of gold. Which held value?

Basically, in the proverbial nutshell... Use todays Fiat dollars to gather whatever you can that you will need tomorrow. I looked at it as this: If all of a sudden, the fiat dollars I keep at home or have in the bank were worth nothing, what would I have?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Woody said:


> If all of a sudden, the fiat dollars I keep at home or have in the bank were worth nothing, what would I have?


A lot of green TP?


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

The original reason Germany and France kept sizeable portions of their gold reserves outside continental Europe was the threat of invasion by the USSR. After that threat faded, there was no real reason to repatriate their reserves since there is a substantial cost for moving bullion thousands of miles. And what's the benefit of doing this when there is now a common currency in most of Europe? It's not like Germany or France is going to pledge its gold reserves to support the Euro.

This whole thing is just nationalism rearing its head. I'm sure there was some pressure applied by central bankers on the political class in Europe to maintain the status quo. IMHO, the central bankers want the sheeple to keep believing in fiat for as long as possible and to limit any possibility of a PM backed currency.

As *Woody* so eloquently points out, the price of TP has risen much faster than inflation. The width has also shrunk by .25" (I just measured the difference.) Like him, I 'invested' a modest sum in buttock inflation protection securities. I also spent modest sums on toothpaste, deodorant, peroxide, and other commonly used items. I look on these 'investments' as steps every prepper should take as a means lowering future costs while providing protection against supply shocks or personal economic issues.

*Woody* is also correct that the paper markets for PMs far outstrip the actual physical inventory. In 2013, physical silver production was 819 million oz. Accounting for all sources, the supply was 978.1 million oz. Demand outstripped supply *by over 100 million oz.* Source: https://www.silverinstitute.org/site/supply-demand/

At roughly $20/oz, the physical silver market in 2013 was $20 billion. The total silver market was *$5 trillion.* That means there is a 250/1 ratio of paper silver to physical silver. Source: https://www.goldbroker.com/news/paper-silver-market-250-times-size-physical-silver-market-526

I could not find quick easy gold figures in ounces, but it appears that supply is substantially above demand. However it also appears that the paper gold to physical gold ratio is somewhere above 1000:1 and actual physical deliveries are under $300 million/ month. Source: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-13/paper-gold-and-its-effect-gold-price

So what does that mean for you and me? If you own paper PMs, at best you own an legal obligation that can be wiped out by bankruptcy. As I've said before, you only own something if you can hold it in your hand. Otherwise you own a buttock inflation protection security far more expensive than real TP.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Woody said:


> I would not trust the U. S. either! Look at how hard the FED is fighting any kind of audit. They have fought against an audit of their physical gold reserves for longer. How did they put it...'It doesn't matter what is actually in the vaults, what matters is what the books say is there.' or something to that extent.


They don't have to fight it. Remember during the bank meltdown a few years ago, when Bernanke testified before a Congressional subcommittee, and when he was asked which foreign banks he'd given bailout funds to, he refused to answer.

Just like the FCC chairman refused to appear before the House Oversight Committee yesterday with regards to the FCC's vote on Net Neutrality coming up today.

Congress doesn't have the <essential parts> to do the public's will with regard to the bureaucrats and moneycrats that seem to be actually running the country.

And, because politics is not supposed to be discussed on this forum, I'll leave it at that.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

2 years ago my family began stocking our pantry with large quantities of cases of canned goods to rotate in use. My wife kept all the receipts. Each time she replaced a case of corn or beans she came home and compared the prices. Almost double each time. I estimate roughly that we have saved over a thousand dollars by doing this... maybe more. So, even if nothing bad ever happens as far as a financial crash goes. We continue to save money using this method.


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## zilte (Mar 1, 2015)

man, why would you WORRY about owing on a house if shtf? Nobody is going to come try to repossess it. they will be fighting for their lives. shtf is not going to be like the Depression in US. it's going to horrifically violent, folks. It will be depraved and insane beyond belief.


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## zilte (Mar 1, 2015)

the last thing that I'd put my money into would be land or a single family residence, unless I somehow could be generating real income with that purchase, and no I don't mean renting the place to one tenant, unless my purchase price (payments) was way the heck under what I could rent it out for! 

you don't need to own land in order to cache stuff there. Caching has to be done at night, showing no light and leaving no "sign". if it's edible by animals or useful for rodents to make nests out of, the buried goods have to be protected from digging animals. the digging will be noticed by people, who WILL uncover and take your goodies.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

zilte said:


> man, why would you WORRY about owing on a house if shtf? Nobody is going to come try to repossess it. they will be fighting for their lives. shtf is not going to be like the Depression in US. it's going to horrifically violent, folks. It will be depraved and insane beyond belief.


There are many different scenarios for shtf. Complete collapse is only one and imho probably the least likely...possible but not probable. Today it is looking more like the most likely scenario is a slow slide into poverty as the economy crumbles slowly while wealth is gobbled up by the 2% at the top. Wealth redistribution is well underway and we are beginning to see it in the news with illegals being able to file 3 to 4 years worth of back taxes even though they have not paid in. The stock market is a tool for the top elites to grab more and more as we are told the economy is improving all the while they continue printing more and more money devaluing the few dollars I have. if you think no one will try to repossess your home you better speak to the millions who are now homeless due to repossessions that have been continuously happening since the 08 crash. The banks are still holding many of these properties and are now renting many out rather than refinancing people and reselling them.

The ACA has not even really begun to be implemented but I already have been forced to buy insurance that I can not afford to use. My deductible is $5000.00. It covers less than my old cheaper policy and if I had to use it I could not pay the deductible before I could reap any of the benefits of my policy. All it does for me is take money from me monthly. There are many parts of this Act that have not even begun to be implemented on the American people.
The banks are still too big to fail in fact they are even bigger now 6 years later. Laws have been enacted to allow them to confiscate funds from depositors when and if another crash happens.

More and more countries daily are working towards stepping away from using the U.S. Dollar
What do you think that will do to the value of your money when they actually no longer use it as the world currency?



zilte said:


> the last thing that I'd put my money into would be land or a single family residence, unless I somehow could be generating real income with that purchase, and no I don't mean renting the place to one tenant, unless my purchase price (payments) was way the heck under what I could rent it out for!
> 
> you don't need to own land in order to cache stuff there. Caching has to be done at night, showing no light and leaving no "sign". if it's edible by animals or useful for rodents to make nests out of, the buried goods have to be protected from digging animals. the digging will be noticed by people, who WILL uncover and take your goodies.


If you think the only thing possible is what you see on the "walking dead" you better prepare for numerous possible scenarios or you may be caught with your pants down and a cache in your neighbors rented yard that CAN be repossessed from it's owner.

Believe me when I tell you that the bankers are not going to be the first to go and leave free homes all over the country for people to live in.
I think a very smart thing to do is buy some land away from most large metropolises for cash...move onto it and try as hard as you can to become self sustainable there as quickly as you can.

Just my opinion and everyone has their own.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

zilte said:


> man, why would you WORRY about owing on a house if shtf? Nobody is going to come try to repossess it. they will be fighting for their lives. shtf is not going to be like the Depression in US. it's going to horrifically violent, folks. It will be depraved and insane beyond belief.


Calm down and remember that this is just your opinion and not a fact. Look at what is happening in places like Venezuela where the S is HTF but there is not the anarchy that you suggest. While I am not saying you are wrong but your statement is only an opinion on a possible future. Anytime anyone speaks about any future event it is always just conjecture.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

zilte said:


> man, why would you WORRY about owing on a house if shtf? Nobody is going to come try to repossess it. they will be fighting for their lives. shtf is not going to be like the Depression in US. it's going to horrifically violent, folks. It will be depraved and insane beyond belief.


I prep for the likely possibility that shit will never hit the fan, at least in the manner many expect.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

zilte said:


> you don't need to own land in order to cache stuff there. Caching has to be done at night, showing no light and leaving no "sign". if it's edible by animals or useful for rodents to make nests out of, the buried goods have to be protected from digging animals. the digging will be noticed by people, who WILL uncover and take your goodies.


I know this is OT, sorry. But I am curious.

You are suggesting making secret stashes on rural land. One large stash or many smaller ones? Would you know who owned the land and what they planned to do with it? You could come back one day to find bulldozers tearing it up for a housing development, or even a single home. Depending on who owns it, someone who hunts that land would be a good tracker and able to see even a pretty well 'hidden' dug hole covered over. Especially if done at night, without any lights.

And when you do go back and dig up your stash, do you take it all with you or cover some of it back up for later? Where do you take it? Whatever is there must be able to be carried by one person, along with all your other gear. Do you BO right near to it or hike for several miles to another BOL? I look at even a month's supply of FD goods, or canned goods... It is quite a pile.

My BOL is right here, where I live. All my supplies are on my little acre and a half. I used to camp many moons ago, but know I would never survive now running in the woods with a bow and bowie knife. Granted, my SHTF situations are not quite as drastic as yours. I envision many scenario's where just being able to hunker down at home and ride it out, is my best plan.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

zilte said:


> man, why would you WORRY about owing on a house if shtf? Nobody is going to come try to repossess it. they will be fighting for their lives. shtf is not going to be like the Depression in US. it's going to horrifically violent, folks. It will be depraved and insane beyond belief.


This sounds like sour grapes to me but that is just a guess.

People that have enough money to have a bank also have enough to hire someone to go out and claim whatever they have taken as security. While I prep for the Mad Max scenario that is primarily for entertainment purposes. The truth is that when I've had to dig into my preps it has been for illness and lack of work. Having my home paid for was what got me through.

One of the things I prep for is for things going along as usual. My parents were preppers before I was born. I've been a prepper since before the word existed. The S may HTF tomorrow or you may have a really long wait. The old expression "life is what happens while you're making other plans" seems to be relevant here. Just as I buy fire insurance without the expectation that my home will burn down, I prep.


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