# I opened a friends eyes.



## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

As the title says I woke a friend up not long ago. I sugested he read One Second After. He is the average guy who earlier when asked what he would do had said "I coming to your house". 
Sadly this was only followed by the disapointment when I said I could not support him and his family as my family and group was too large as it is.
He has no idea where my country place is as I tell no one it's location. 
I have been surprised as he says now after reading another planing book by James Wesley, Rawles, he will bug in. I am happy for his family he has opened his eyes but I am alarmed as he is continuing to buy more guns (already had a few) instead of food or water filtration. Is this a normal first reaction to waking up?


Am I paranoid? I have started doubling back more often as I leave town as things get worse. :nuts:


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

It's a good indicator on how some folks think.

The reality is without firearms, someone is fodder for others who are willing to take what is necessary. If it really gets bad, then firearms matter more than food. It's just the way it is. I've a name for those folks who post silly things like "you can't eat bullets"...I call them 'resources' because the terrible truth is, when it comes down it it, there's no way most of us would starve if we've got a means of taking what we need from those too foolish not to have a means of defense. (This is all situation dependent. If someone goes apesh*t and starts killing folks to take their stuff at something that's just regional, and the rule of law will be reestablished, they're planning very wrong. If it's truly TEOTWAWKI and someone put money into firearms and ammunition, and spent their time tracking who was stockpiling and what their habits are and what they've got, then they've done it correctly...morally wrong, but smart.)

As that's a reality, then we need to be prepared to defend what we have.


What that new prepper should also be doing is buying and storing grains, pasta, and other food items.


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## SaskBound (Feb 13, 2010)

Your friend may be so overwhelmed that he has reverted to getting more of what he already knows how to use. You might pull him aside and suggest that, while guns have their place, twenty gallons of water for the water cooler, and ten pounds each of rice and beans might be more useful right now. Put specific numbers on it, so he at least has a little direction with his project. It sounds like he is directionless and panic buying. Plus, the specific books he read have a fairly militaristic bent, which could reinforce the need for weapons...


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

You could introduce him to some of the PAW-Fiction on this board - maybe one of the stories that does not include guns (GypsySue's *LongRideHome* comes to mind or Jerry's *Barbara's Legacy* comes to mind) and through those kinds of stories show that a gun is just a tool, but, further preparations will be required.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> You could introduce him to some of the PAW-Fiction on this board - maybe one of the stories that does not include guns (GypsySue's *LongRideHome* comes to mind or Jerry's *Barbara's Legacy* comes to mind) and through those kinds of stories show that a gun is just a tool, but, further preparations will be required.


I'd much rather be prepared all my life and never meet a disaster than to meet a disaster and not be prepared...............


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## goose (Jun 12, 2010)

unclebob said:


> As the title says I woke a friend up not long ago. I sugested he read One Second After. He is the average guy who earlier when asked what he would do had said "I coming to your house".
> Sadly this was only followed by the disapointment when I said I could not support him and his family as my family and group was too large as it is.
> He has no idea where my country place is as I tell no one it's location.
> I have been surprised as he says now after reading another planing book by James Wesley, Rawles, he will bug in. I am happy for his family he has opened his eyes but I am alarmed as he is continuing to buy more guns (already had a few) instead of food or water filtration. Is this a normal first reaction to waking up?
> ...


I don't think you're paranoid. I think that it could be interpreted that he's going to come to your house, and guess what he's planning to do?

If he's read One Second After, and the Rawles book, and he's not putting up food nor planning on a water supply, then what else can he be planning for?

It might not be that he'll come to your house for your preps, but he knows you have them, as opposed to others where he's not sure.

I might probe a bit with him to find out why he's choosing this approach. If you don't like the answer, you have some thinking to do.


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

To paraphase "you are paranoid, but are you paranoid enough!"

I would have a chat with the "friend" and suggest that he considers food and other necessities before adding more weapons to his collection. Afterwards I would ALWAYS keep an eye on him and be aware that he may think it is easier to take by force rather than doing the hard work of prepping.


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## NavyKen (Feb 14, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> It's a good indicator on how some folks think.
> 
> The reality is without firearms, someone is fodder for others who are willing to take what is necessary. If it really gets bad, then firearms matter more than food. It's just the way it is. I've a name for those folks who post silly things like "you can't eat bullets"...I call them 'resources' because the terrible truth is, when it comes down it it, there's no way most of us would starve if we've got a means of taking what we need from those too foolish not to have a means of defense. (This is all situation dependent. If someone goes apesh*t and starts killing folks to take their stuff at something that's just regional, and the rule of law will be reestablished, they're planning very wrong. If it's truly TEOTWAWKI and someone put money into firearms and ammunition, and spent their time tracking who was stockpiling and what their habits are and what they've got, then they've done it correctly...morally wrong, but smart.)
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

_I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it._

I don't think the reality that we live in a violent world is going to change no matter how much we wish it so. Bye.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it.


That is one members opinion and does not reflect most of what is discussed on this board (in this members opinion)


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> That is one members opinion and does not reflect most of what is discussed on this board (in this members opinion)


The responder may be harsh in voicing his opinion, however being an ostrich and burying your head in the sand will only result in getting your a$$ shot off.

It is not a Kum-By-Ya world out there, and, it is better to hope for the best but prepare for the worst in my opinion.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Tirediron is right. Members can voice their opinions but they may not reflect the views of anyone else on here. Spend a lot of time on other threads before you decide to leave this forum. 

Sadly, some members aren't as diplomatic in their "phraseology", and perhaps don't mean things as harsh as they sound. Some do. Just be patient with us!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

tortminder said:


> The responder may be harsh in voicing his opinion, however being an ostrich and burying your head in the sand will only result in getting your a$$ shot off.
> 
> It is not a Kum-By-Ya world out there, and, it is better to hope for the best but prepare for the worst in my opinion.


I would be the first guy to tell you to be prepared to defend your self, your people, your property and your hard earned supplies, and the last guy to say parisetic skuzz balls who lurk around planning to steal people with fore thoughts goods were smart . Scum is scum NO matter what NO matter when


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I agree strongly with Tort and I do believe that understanding that we might be facing violence is a view a majority holds in survivalism. To be of value, survivalism needs to be realistically approached, not made politically correct and sensitive. If things do fall apart, this isn't going to be a nation wide camping trip, holding hands and sinking camp song, it's going to be a scary competition for resources. 

If a person is upset with people merely mentioning the that the post SHTF is world is going to be dangerous and violent, then that person isn't realistically approaching survivalism. 

We have ONE person threaten to leave because they don't want to address bad possibilities in survivalist scenarios and we're all supposed to suddenly pretend it's going to be safe, and good? 

Wouldn't it be better to address the possibilities, prepare for them, and pray they don't happen? Or in a bad case situation, address them now, in writing and in concept, and be better preapred for dealing with them?


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Yeah if or when SHTF things will be tough. there is too much "Butch" & "Gunkid" mentality out there and for them to read that that way of thinking is smart is possibly adding fuel to an allready demented fire. The thought that they will probably get a hole or 2 in them when they try to enact their plan would maybe deter them ?? 
Like they used to say in Texas, Fire a warning shot thru his head


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> Yeah if or when SHTF things will be tough. there is too much "Butch" & "Gunkid" mentality out there and for them to read that that way of thinking is smart is possibly adding fuel to an allready demented fire. The thought that they will probably get a hole or 2 in them when they try to enact their plan would maybe deter them ??
> Like they used to say in Texas, Fire a warning shot thru his head


You provided one of the individuals who we should be concerned about. Gunkid types prep largely with firearms...I don't remember much from his about food storage. I think he was an MRE proponent. They write down information on what others have and what they willingly share on the Internet and in real life. Gunkid is precisely why most of us shouldn't do FTF meetings at all because he's not the most dangerous one, the ones who are crafty, clever, and friendly acting but vicous like a skillful, manipulative psychopath are the ones to worry about....those folks smile, never get into conflict on the Internet or in real life, and their victims don't even see it coming. They'll tell ya what you want to hear...or in this case, read.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it.


Well honey, that would be your average thinking after the SHTF. You got to take things like that into account. Prepare for ANYTHING.

I'll give you an example. Read the book/Watch the movie called The Road. I haven't read the book but I did see the movie. I never seen something so...bothersome in my life when it came to how other people would treat you if it came down to their life or yours.

Desperate times will call for desperate measures.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

If you are frightened you will go into a defensive mode. Maybe your friend is just frightened by the things he has read. Don't take any chances don't tell anyone anything about your prepping in detail. If ask, just say you have a few things put back incase the economy can't get it's act together, or you are prepared for another snowy winter. Do not under any circumstances show any outsider your stores.


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## twiggie (Jan 3, 2009)

Instead of buying a lot of new guns it would really be beneficial to stockpile ammo for the guns he already has. Ammo is getting more expensive and might be impossible to find some day. 
It certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to reinforce in his mind the necessity of storing food and water. If either of you keep a vegetable garden it could give learning experience and a helping hand to work together this spring and set up gardens, harvest and save seeds. 
Just my $0.02


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Tirediron said:


> I would be the first guy to tell you to be prepared to defend your self, your people, your property and your hard earned supplies, and the last guy to say parisetic skuzz balls who lurk around planning to steal people with fore thoughts goods were smart . Scum is scum NO matter what NO matter when


Put bluntly, but truthfully...my husband is sooooo concerned of all the food and supplies we have, I just moved 77 cases of canned goods and buckets of food to an empty closet from an 8 X 8 ft pantry!!!

I left some in case one friend gets nosey and asks where's the goods??


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## PS360 (Sep 10, 2010)

IMO a gun should be the first place to start because the chance of some crazy trying to kill you is much greater than a famine, etc.


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## tortminder (Oct 15, 2008)

PS360 said:


> IMO a gun should be the first place to start because the chance of some crazy trying to kill you is much greater than a famine, etc.


Someone wasn't paying attention in class...:nuts:

You need air; water; shelter; food in that order. A weapon is a tool, not a means to an end and CERTAINLY not an end in itself.

The smartest way to win a confrontation of any kind is to avoid it altogether.


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## SaskBound (Feb 13, 2010)

PS360 said:


> IMO a gun should be the first place to start because the chance of some crazy trying to kill you is much greater than a famine, etc.


If that is the case in your area, I suggest you consider relocating. Where I live, you are more likely to die of exposure during a blizzard-related power outage, or possibly go hungry due to unemployment. Crazies with guns are not very high up the list around here. Which is not to say that guns aren't useful; however, they would not be my number one priority, personally.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

SaskBound said:


> If that is the case in your area, I suggest you consider relocating. Where I live, you are more likely to die of exposure during a blizzard-related power outage, or possibly go hungry due to unemployment. Crazies with guns are not very high up the list around here. Which is not to say that guns aren't useful; however, they would not be my number one priority, personally.


I'm in one of those states that if the bussed-in neighbor called the sheriff complaining about your target practice???heck, the sheriff would come on out, probably join in, and might give a few free rounds compliments of the county!!LOL


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## truecarnage (Apr 25, 2010)

I think all one has to do is watch videos of how people act and react to both disasters and civil unrest both here and abroad. If you think for one second that all the people out there that haven't prepared are just going to sit quietly while everything falls apart then you need to put down the crack pipe. If things get really bad you will see several different types of people, the types that did no preparation and are now willing to go to any extent to take care of "#1" themselves. Then you have another type of individual that would normally be a pretty decent person but their survival instinct will compel them to go seeking for themselves and/or their family what they don't have but need. I don't want to write a book and I'm not trying to influence people but like I said all you have to do is watch film footage of what people do when things go wrong and they're not prepared for it.


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

Truecarnage is right; just watch the recent Black Friday video of how folks were behaving at a WalMart, somewhere in the south. I didn't see the video, but others said people were grabbing stuff and shoving eachother around. What are these folks gonna do when there is no food on the grocery shelf or their welfare check doesn't arrive? Yikes!

Food, water and shelter; and firearms to protect you and your family. 
Somewhere I read an article about what will you do when city dwellers find they can no longer stay in the cities and they start coming into your neighborhood. And, these are NOT the nice folks either. It was an excellent article. I'm not sure if it is still at Survivalblog.com or not. I'll have to research it. However, that website is an excellent source of information; and well written articles too. Knowledge is an important survival tool as well, keep reading, keep learning.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it.


(Gonna write this and then go back and read the rest of the thread to see how it turned out)

Turning your face away from those who observe these things and report them won't make those things go away. It will simply leave you ignorant as to how to prepare to deal with them.

Purely my opinion next, of course. Who am I? Some dude on the Internet, nothing more and nothing less. Chew the gristle, and see if there's meat hidden in there.

It's not all about someone raiding other humans for supplies. From a purely logical and amoral standpoint, that's probably the safest thing to do... raid nonviolent preppers. Thankfully most of us have morals, but if you are an expressly nonviolent prepper, and TELL people? You WILL be raided. Even if you don't tell people, you still run a huge risk pretending violence doesn't exist. You need weaponry and supplies.

If I could only afford food or guns for largescale prep? I'd buy 3 days worth of food, and then go for weaponry and wilderness survival goods. Food storage is great, but guns get you food. From a purely pragmatic point of view, a man forced out of his home into the wild with a .22 rifle and a thousand rounds is going to live longer than the guy who can't lug 300lbs of rice and beans with him.

If you're without food and you need it, a gun provides you with the means to acquire meat in a hurry. If you're without guns and need them, MREs aren't going to drive off attackers. If you have to be on the move, setting up traps for livestock isn't going to cut it, you need to take meat, scavenge vegetation, and keep moving.

That said... balance in all things. If you're buying rocket launchers and explosives instead, or buying weapons in different calibers that all serve the same purpose (IE, if you already have an SKS and then go buy a .300 Mag and a .308) then you are probably going past pragmatism and into wasteful spending. Once your base weapons are acquired.. start stockpiling other essentials!

Optimally, do both. If not feasible, get the basics for weaponry and wilderness scavving first. Once you're set on food? Then buy "fun" guns. That said? I'd look askance if my "friend" was concentrating solely on weaponry, for sure.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I posted that given a bad enough situation, there will be violence and having a firearm matters. Then we saw this:

*Originally Posted by NavyKen 
I'm sorry to say if I see much more of this type of thinking on this board I will be forced to stop visiting. This is only a secondary board for me and If this is the norm I will not miss it.*

Here's two different people with two different views on dealing with similar bad case scenarios. They enjoyed very different outcomes:











Who would you rather have backing your play?


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## NavyKen (Feb 14, 2010)

I don't come to preparedness websites to learn how to steal from others or how others are going to do so. I am prepared to employ deadly force if needed. What I want is Ideas on prepping, new and better ways to store food or out of the box thinking. I am in the ARMED FORCES... I am not a pacifist, if you try to harm me or mine or to take what is mine by force I will meet force with force, but I will not use force to take what is not mine.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I don't come to preparedness websites to learn how to steal from others or how others are going to do so. I am prepared to employ deadly force if needed. What I want is Ideas on prepping, new and better ways to store food or out of the box thinking. I am in the ARMED FORCES... I am not a pacifist, if you try to harm me or mine or to take what is mine by force I will meet force with force, but I will not use force to take what is not mine.


Navyken, there are lots of "how to" and other very valuable threads on this forum other than weaponry and security. If you are not interested in this particular topic, choose something more to your interests. For example, as important as making soap could be if a SHTF scenario, I presently have no interest in it so I haven't pursued that thread. I may regret that someday.

On the other hand, there are lots of folks here who live in or near major metro areas, and they have a legitimate, immediate concerns about security. The nearest city to me is about 50 miles away and they had 4 shootings in one night last week! Lots of cities see rioting, beatings, car burnings and even killings when their team wins the big game, loses the big game or some creep gets shot by a cop. What would these scum bags do if things got tougher than their team losing a game?

There is something to be said for "beans'n'bullets".


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I don't come to preparedness websites to learn how to steal from others or how others are going to do so. I am prepared to employ deadly force if needed. What I want is Ideas on prepping, new and better ways to store food or out of the box thinking. I am in the ARMED FORCES... I am not a pacifist, if you try to harm me or mine or to take what is mine by force I will meet force with force, but I will not use force to take what is not mine.


No one is advocating that people should take from others. It's realized that it happens, even now and those who think it won't happen are foolish...other than the portion of warning that there will be violence in very chaotic situations and that a person might wish to preserve the option of protecting oneself.

It's less than productive to avoid discussing one of the largest potential threats in preparedness. While one might protect from exposure and hunger through taking steps, those threats while possibly present and some even say 'opportunistic' as they strike whenever possible, aren't actually in the hands of others who might possess cunning and brutatility.

*What is difficult to discuss is levels of use of force and what is appropriate for different situations, especially with so many different jurisdictions involved.*

Example: If someone posts about less lethal techniques and options, someone will post something like "If it comes to using force I'm just going to shoot people."



That's someone who can't conceive that there can be a variety of situations and it's someone who doesn't even know the laws in his area, doesn't understand how to use influence, has no training in less lethal force and is a cherry to violence.

Another problem with discussions regarding violence is we can be talking about the same thing, but have totally different views on what is being discussed and there's mindsets. Some can't distinguish between a justified use of deadly force and someone who is predatory and is attacking because they lack sophistication.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

NavyKen said:


> I don't come to preparedness websites to learn how to steal from others or how others are going to do so. I am prepared to employ deadly force if needed. What I want is Ideas on prepping, new and better ways to store food or out of the box thinking. I am in the ARMED FORCES... I am not a pacifist, if you try to harm me or mine or to take what is mine by force I will meet force with force, but I will not use force to take what is not mine.


I have a neighbor who is negative about everything..I've been storing/saving food and supplies for two years...her thoughts?? They'll just come and take it all, so why bother..

We have guns for protection..her thoughts??? they'll just come and take them from you, so why bother??

We have a Berkey for pond and creek water...her thoughts??? there'll be someone there with guns guarding the water, so why bother??

I tell her the pool in her backyard will be a good bartering tool...her thoughts??
what can I do with water that's nuked??

I'd like to say: Okay, damn it...why don't you just crawl up in a fetal position, in a corner somewhere and ****ing die!!!! :ignore:


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

JayJay, why talk to that fool? I guess it's good you found out she's worthless in a crisis and she'll be the one to turn on your and tell others what you're doing.


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

I'm curious. You tell me after SHTF scenario you wouldn't after months get a "raiding" party to venture to the cities and search for whats left of the world? Not to mention what might be left in the nearby Lowe's or Home Depot. Gas station smight not have been raided either depending on what went down.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Post SHTF a person would be an idiot not to salvage all that they could THAT DID NOT BELONG to anyone alive. Looting and stealing are far different from well behaved salvage operations.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Heck, post TSHTF, TEOTWAWKI I'd even leave a receipt. Heck, I might even write a check!


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

JayJay, there are members of my family like your neighbor. But when the balloon goes up they will be the first on my doorstep.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

I've had more than one close friend or family member say they are coming here when (insert whatever) happens. (I'm pretty private and keep a very small circle of friends so most people who "know" me - don't know me at all).


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> I've had more than one close friend or family member say they are coming here when (insert whatever) happens. (I'm pretty private and keep a very small circle of friends so most people who "know" me - don't know me at all).


I hate people that assume they can just come to your house eat your food, sleep in your beds, and use your equipment! :gaah: Their to lazy to prepare now. If they would just get 3 months supply of food and water for at least 5 people then surely they can come to the CP.

Makes me think about buying tickets to the CP, or rendeveous to get to the BOL. 3 Months of food and water. A large amount of amunition and guns. Or just money to let me buy the supplys for them.


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