# Food Shortage



## NeeNee (Nov 24, 2008)

What is there was a nationwide food shortage? Do you think that could ever happen? What would you do/grow in order to prepare yourself for such devastation?


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## wildman800 (Oct 17, 2008)

I believe the Food Shortage has started along the entire chain from production, processing, and delivery to stores. Take a critical look at grocery store shelves. Do you notice "gaps" of open shelf space? Look behind the front row of products lining the shelves, are there more products behind that front row? By the end of a normal day, my local Walmart's freezer section is 1/3rd empty of products.

My mitigation efforts have been to:

Store more food of all kinds by always picking up 2 or 3 extra things when I go to the store.

I just cleared trees from my backyard, that would shade my planned garden area.

I keep vegetable seeds in the freezer until I need them. I add new seeds to the group each spring.

I am learning about and making plans now to build a chicken coop and a rabbit hutch in the backyard corners.

I will start planting 10-20 herbal plants in pots near the front and back doors. These will be herbs with food and medicinal uses.

I am now giving the trees in my front yard a critical look. I could have them removed and have more area for gardening. The front yard as a garden would incur some security risks although it might just end up as being the area reserved for helping my neighbors with their needs. This can of worms require a great deal of thought before implementing it!!

I am improving my bicycle stable carrying capacity so that it can be used more, if fuel supplies become tight in the future.


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## dilligaf (Oct 17, 2008)

NeeNee said:


> What is there was a nationwide food shortage? Do you think that could ever happen? What would you do/grow in order to prepare yourself for such devastation?


There will be shortages of food at some point in this economic mess .

We grow at this point about 90% of our food on the homestead. The only things we dont grow are coffee, tea flour and sugar. We could produce oil from sunflowers if we chose too and we do grow some grains . We also forage for somethings in order to make flours. We could also render more fat from the critters at butcher time if we chose and tea can be made from many things. Our biggest issue is not having sweetener of any real sort other than some fruits. We cant do bees since we are all allergic and i kill all my sweet leaf every time i plant it.

Then again i suppose we will need to barter for something sugar may as well be it

I recommend to anyone to grow as much of there own food as possible. Even if its just a little bit, those little bits can help stave off starvation in meager times. One doesnt need to have much land or space to grow a lot of food in.


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## Treyfer (Nov 24, 2008)

I didn't know you could preserve seeds in the freezer?


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

You can't really learn gardening skills or build a garden and compost/watering sources/tools overnight. So the key is start now. Think about who you can ally and work with. Securing a garden from people and critters is also important in needy times. Also, be prepared to preserve harvested food for hard times when weather or seasons do not cooperate.

Sugar, flour wheat, etc. can be bought in bulk. A grain mill is needed. 

Think about powering canning/milling/preserving seeds without electricity. Also securing the same from the elements and rats.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

If you look at the price of rice right now it seems crazy not to be putting it up in quantity if you have the extra money available. Costco is selling 25 pound bags for $10.80. That's essentially 40,000 calories, enough to feed a person for a month (with other protein sources).

I'm looking at putting in corn and strawberries in the backyard and carrots, beets, and lettuce in the frontyard next summer. My expectations are low, as this is my first time doing anything but strawberries (which was years ago). But as Fn says, better to get started now and start the learning curve, than later, when your life might depend on it.


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## dunappy (Nov 11, 2008)

We have a large vegetable garden and save seeds instead of buying them. I have a winter garden in the house windows and the summer garden outside.

I also keep perinneal plants so that I don't need to reseed them every year in particular my onions and herbs. 

I also have fruit trees, (apple, Peach, Asian Pear, Mulberry) and Nut trees, Pinyon, and butternut. 
And fruit bushes (saskatoon blueberry, Elderberry and currants)

And I have chickens, ducks, geese and turkeys for both eggs and meat. 

And I have horses for transportation. but in a serious pinch if one were gravely injured, I don't have a problem slaughtering for meat either. We also live less than 15 miles from a nice lake full of fish and I can fish. 

We live right outside the National forest and we frequently have deer and elk come near the house so we could go hunting as well if needed.

And at the moment we are stocking up on beans and rice and other things we can't grow well here in the high desert mountains.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

I agree to start now. Even if there is not a food shortage being sufficient should be everyone's goal and if you have even the smallest plot of land you can grow a good number of quality vegetables just fine including indoors.

Start a compost now, freeze dry some food, vacuum seal grain, rice, sugar. Then start a basic garden or raised bed to plant in. If you don't have fruit bearing trees then plant a few. Do them in pairs.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

dilligaf said:


> Then again i suppose we will need to barter for something sugar may as well be it


Sugar will keep about five years in sealed glass jars with some dessicant on top. 
No need to go tradeing your hard earned stuff just for thet.


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## Lowdown3 (Oct 28, 2008)

Hey Dilli, have you guys ever tried sugar cane up there? We've tried it a couple times here and didn't have any luck. But I spent about 30 minutes talking to an old gal that grows it here recently and we are going to try again. 

I have some stalks I can cut up and mail to you if you want to try some, let me know. 

BTW, did you get any more rabbits?

Good subject matter here. 

Folks I hate to sound negative but if you are not doing a lot of this NOW, it's not going to be as easy as you think it is when the time comes. Many factors will work AGAINST you including-

*Lack of experience- that's the big one Weezey! 
*Lack of water pressure- think about it, how will you irrigate?
*Seed longevity- sure you might get a little longer keeping your seeds in the freezer but the real ticket is to grow a garden EVERY year so that you get in the habit of keeping seeds regularly and always have a "fresh" crop of seeds. 
*Soil not ready- most folks think they will just pop open their #10 can of "survival seeds" scratch the earth, pop them in and have the Garden of Eden in a few short weeks. Doesn't work that way folks! Get your soil tested NOW and start working on amendments NOW, not after the fact. 

These are just a few. 

Ponds and orchards take the longest time to get established, these are the things you want to do FIRST when you get your homestead set up. Why? Because the fruit trees will take 3-5 years to really start producing and the pond will take a couple years to get into full production also. 

Also, if you have not yet moved to your retreat and are just visiting on the weekends, etc. then these are the two main things you can do as a semi absentee owner. You can't reliably grow a garden and raise animals without being there to look at/work with them. You can put some fruit trees in and water them on the weekends, you can put your pond in, lime and fertilize it, stock it and walk away for it for a while. 

These things take time. Listen to folks like Dilligaf, they are LIVING this right now, I was blessed to visit their place earlier this year, it is AWESOME! 

Lowdown3


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## dilligaf (Oct 17, 2008)

ohhhhhhhhh i would love some canes lowdown! That would be awesome and no we havent tried it as yet although my ex inlaws grew it in mexico We did indeed find a breeder to get a couple few more bunnies locally. We havent gotten them as yet but they do have them continually so it shouldnt be an issue when we are ready. ... sorry to hijack the thread a tad....



> Sugar will keep about five years in sealed glass jars with some dessicant on top.
> No need to go tradeing your hard earned stuff just for thet.


...we have a good bit stored away. We have most everything we need for a good couple years while we work toward expanding things even further with what we grow and do here on the land. By no means what we do here now is all we plan on doing. It is a constant evolving work in progress and i think it always will be.

We got the basics covered in the recent years here and have it completely functional now we are simply adorning our diet with other things as we go along and as i have said before in posts we are at about 90 % sustainability. sugars and oils are the major things that we plan on working toward in the coming months / years. At the same time it takes alot of time to get things to where we need them in order to accomplish each goal. The more you plant, the less room you have to accomplish the remainder of your goals. This in turn requires getting creative in making new beds and new soil to grow in. Priorities are different for each family or individual, for us it was getting gardens sustainable for us, then getting crops for critters to a level we felt good about and now it is adding things where we can and when we can afford it to keep while maintaining the sustainbility we have. As we grow , the more time it takes to accomplish everything and with two of us to work it all it becomes a juggling task at times.


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## Laddyboy (Dec 5, 2008)

dilligaf said:


> We cant do bees since we are all allergic and i kill all my sweet leaf every time i plant it.


I know 'sweet leaf' as something else.....ask Black Sabbath.


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

NeeNee said:


> What is there was a nationwide food shortage? Do you think that could ever happen? What would you do/grow in order to prepare yourself for such devastation?


I wonder. How many times have there been food shortages in the US in the past ... say 100 years? Or 200 years? Under what circumstances have there been food shortages elsewhere in the world and do any of those circumstances seem likely in the US in the next few years?

I don't have those answers, but my gut feeling is that a nationwide food shortage is not very likely.

Somewhat more likely is a family food shortage due to an economic crisis either because we get really poor or food gets really expensive. Likelihood varies by family, I would think.

My parents grew up during the depression. My grandmother (RIP) grew up poor. I heard stories of them growing their own food, canning, skills lost to most of us urbanites. They lived through WWII and victory gardens, rationing, etc. and I have heard those stories too.

I have done some hobby gardening with decent success with some plant. I have recently taken up hunting (with no success yet) as a hobby too. I could see either hobby also being meagre food sources.

One has to consider how much cost in water and fertilizer for a garden versus buying in the store. If economic crisis hits, will I be able to afford my house? How much does a pound of deer meat really cost given range fees and bullets for practice and low success rate (say 30%)?

If I had a big property on fertile land I'd be thinking about a bigger garden, but in suburbia I think other mitigations may make more sense than DIY food.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

NeeNee said:


> What is there was a nationwide food shortage? Do you think that could ever happen? What would you do/grow in order to prepare yourself for such devastation?


There WAS nation wide food shortages!

In 1813/1814 volcanic eruptions in the south pacific cause the US to have virtually no summer.
Snow in June, Hard freezes in Sept.
There was virtually no growing season and thousands died.

Most of our Irish Immigrants came to America because of a Potato famine in Ireland where MILLIONS starved to death.

The US 'Civil War' (Wasn't anything 'Civil' about it.) ruined crops in the south, and starvation killed thousands.
Some people resorted to picking undigested kernels of grain out of the Union troops Horse Dung and eating them, others ate leather belts, shoes, harnesses to keep from dying.

1930's in America saw the 'Dust Bowl',
Unusually dry weather for about 10 years in the plains, western states & south that usually produced most of our wheat and most of our corn.

Floods in the 'Corn Belt' & Rice production along the Mississippi River states have driven up prices in the '80's and again in the last couple of years.
I live in Indiana, and we were effected both times.

People wonder why I grow garden, home can as much as I do...
*First off, I like doing it!*
I like knowing EXACTLY what's in my food supply!
And home canned food tastes so much better since it's picked at the correct time (Ripe) instead of industrial pickers taking everything from green to rotten!

No rat droppings or insect parts allowed in my canning!
No harmful chemicals, no poisons, no preservatives except for some table salt...
*
Secondly, It's good for me!*
I'm former military, I was in three aircraft crashes, shot once and caught some shrapnel...
Had car and motorcycle wrecks, and my family is prone to lots of things like diabetes, cancer, arthritis, ect.
And I'm German/Native American, so, I LOVE TO EAT!

Working in the garden keeps the arthritis from the many fractures and dislocations limbered up so I don't stiffen up.
Working in the garden gets me off the sofa and away from the table and getting some exercise!
Bending, stretching, lifting (Gardening is 'Country Yoga'),
And lot's of 'Tinkering' with tomato cages, bean poles and pea fences, WEEDING!...
Turning the compost pile over, mending fences, digging potatoes, ect.
I have the blood pressure of a 25 year old, cholesterol is down some (still WAY high) and I keep my weight in check! (Weight is a BIG DEAL for Germans! We are ALL FAT!)

Third, I have about 2 years of home canned staples at any given time, since I know 'This-or-That' can get rainned out, eaten by bugs, early frost can get things, ect., so I usually put up at least two years worth when I'm running low on something.

Fourth, I get EXACTLY what I want!
If I want to put up 'Indian' corn as a lark, I can do it!
If I want to make 'Bread & Butter' pickles out of Zucchini, then I can have that!
(BTY, Zucchini makes GREAT pickles!)
If I want to mix string beans with great northern beans, then I can put them up that way!

Fifth, I get chemical free meat.
The large cattle/pig/chicken producers pump the cattle full of growth hormones and anti-biotics.
Those are CHEMICALS, not living pathogens, they don't 'Disappear' or 'Die' with low heat (cooking) and are passed right on to the consumer...

SO! 
If I get or grow livestock locally, I know what is going into the meat I'm freezing/canning.

This gives me an automatic 2 year 'built in' buffer against failures, shortages, or just plain stupidity!

(like speculators driving up the price of Wheat, Corn, Soybeans, livestock, ect. like they did oil prices over the summer!)

I'm guessing a 2 year supply could be stretched to 2.5 or 3 years if I had to by hunting, fishing, foraging more than I normally do... Game meat and fish can/freeze very well too!
(Walnuts, Pecans, Hickory Nuts, Black Berries, Mushrooms, ect.)

I also like the fact that I have plantings seeds for two or three years from letting the last of each crop go to seed.
I have some types of seeds that I haven't seen sold in the catalogs for several years, but I like the way they produce/taste, so I do the seed storage every year on those items...
(Like 'Indian' sweet corn! Find that in the seed catalogs!)
------------------------------------------------

BTY Guys, SUGAR is a NITRATE, and will store indefinitely if you keep it air tight.
Sugar has been found in 4,000 year old Egyptian tombs, as good as the day it was stored!

Same with salt, keep it from moisture, and it will be good for at least 4,000 years!


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

There are numerous things pointing toward a global food shortage in the coming years. First, is Peak Oil. Whether you're a believer or not, there is a finite supply of oil on the planet and our current agricultural production is highly dependent on oil and natural gas. It's used in fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, harvesting, processing, and distribution. No doubt, the higher the price of oil and natural gas, the higher the cost of food production and eventually, the higher the cost at market.

Second, the higher the cost of oil, the more pressure to turn food into oil-like products like ethanol. In 2007 roughly 20% of US corn went to produce roughly 6% of the fuel that went into American gas tanks. As oil prices rise (and they will once again), expect the competition for corn to rise.

Third, there is no US food supply anymore, there's only global food supply. Just like the US can't isolate itself from world oil prices, we can't isolate ourselves from world food prices either. It's a global market, so we're competing with both suppliers and consumers from around the world. A bad rice crop in China or India has a direct impact on the price you pay for grains in the US.

Fourth, whether you're a believer in man-caused global warming or not, the long-term trends indicate that the climate is changing. Remember reading about Hans Brinker ice skating on the canals of Holland when you were in school? Well the canals have frozen once in the last 100 years or so. That period was known as the Little Ice Age. Scientists don't know exactly what caused it, but suspect a variety of things like a period of increased volcanism or low solar output. In any case, with 6.5 billion people on the planet, an event like that would be catastrophic today.

Fifth, is the possible long-term impacts of massive honey bee die-offs. The loss of pollinators could impact hundreds of major crops that humans are dependent upon. No one is ever sure why, but the consequences could be global.

Personally, I'm just tired of being dependent on a supply chain that I have no control over. My short-term goal is to get to producing 15-20% of my own fresh veggies by this summer. Long-term, I'd love to produce half or more, but that won't happen with my current home. I need more land and water for that, so that's just one of several reasons we're on the prowl for a new place to call home.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Re: Bees Dying

Although I do live in the city once a year we have a fair and farmers come from all around to educate city folk on how farms work. You get to see cows, pigs, sheep and bees. The bee guy told me all about why the bees are dying off. It turns out there is a mite that sits in the bee. When it hatches it eats the wings of the bee. The bee can't fly and it dies.

Apparently almost all bees in North America now have a mite. It will wipe out a hive unless you do one of two things. The first is to blow tobacco smoke on the hive. All the bees and mites pass out and fall to the bottom of the hive. You put a mesh at the bottom and the bees stay in while the mites fall out. You can also do the same with icing sugar. It makes the feet of the mites clog and they can't stay on the bees.

He even had some mites living in his glass display hive to show how it works. There were indeed wingless bees. He said as long as you do the tobacco thing your hives will be fine.

He also said that each box or colony has a minimum size. If you put too few bees in a box they will all die. Since farmers pay by the box lots of bee keepers have been putting too few bees in each box. The farmers never check the boxes because they don't want to get stung. As long as they see a few bees coming out of the box they assume it is full and never take the lid off to check. As a result these "cost cutting" measures are leaving many bee keepers with no bees.

I kept the guy's card because his honey was awesome and I kind of wanted to do a cooking blog on honey and bees. For those of you who have farms he says bees are easier to keep than any other farm animal. Even people in the suburbs with large back yards can keep bees and make home made honey. If you have a farm keeping a few hives ensures all your crops will be pollinated. He told me he always has queens for sale and can send them out.

Here's his card:

Szabo Queens
Tibor Szabo
Guelph Ontario
519-836-5617
[email protected]

I don't know if you can mail bees to the United States from Canada but it might be worth looking into. If you've got a farm it might be worth a try?


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

I wonder if they figured this out because the beekeepers who were chain smokers didn't have the problem?  Glad to hear they figured this out. Was curious what was going on with that.


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## Washkeeton (Oct 18, 2008)

Canadian said:


> Re: Bees Dying
> 
> Although I do live in the city once a year we have a fair and farmers come from all around to educate city folk on how farms work. You get to see cows, pigs, sheep and bees. The bee guy told me all about why the bees are dying off. It turns out there is a mite that sits in the bee. When it hatches it eats the wings of the bee. The bee can't fly and it dies.
> 
> ...


I raise bees.. havent heard that one yet about the colony colapse. The veroa mite sounds like the problems you describe...they are attached to the bees and live off them.. you can use powdered sugar to get rid of them because the suction cup feet cant continue to hold on...The last I heard about the bee die off was due to a virus of some sort... There are tracheal mites that live in their trachiea and there is many many other diseases and problems with bees that can cause them to die.

I am glad to be up here with out many of the problems of the lower 48, I do have to admit. We did have our largest bee keeper in the state loose over 25 hives this summer to the problems with the bees. He has over 100 hives. I on the other hand do well to just keep up with the 2 that I have. Most of the AK bee keepers keep the popular italians that come from California. I on the other hand dont, I keep the caucausions from South Dakota... I often wonder if that also has something to do with the health of my bees because I havent had any problems with them yet.

For sugar, I know that Alaska couldnt grow cane but oh would I love to... I will hopefully be able to try to grow stevia this yr and see how it goes... is that the sweet leaf your refering too?


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## dilligaf (Oct 17, 2008)

Washkeeton said:


> For sugar, I know that Alaska couldnt grow cane but oh would I love to... I will hopefully be able to try to grow stevia this yr and see how it goes... is that the sweet leaf your refering too?


yes it is the sweet leaf i was referring to...


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## Washkeeton (Oct 18, 2008)

NeeNee said:


> What is there was a nationwide food shortage? Do you think that could ever happen? What would you do/grow in order to prepare yourself for such devastation?


To answer your question... I had about a quarter acre cleared last summer that I intend to start working a portion of this summer and get it planted... I plan to hopefully get an opperable green house up and if not will put up the 2 portible ones until I can get the place the stationary one will go. I have my place set up here for 2 routs... one I have it all set up for gardening with a garden tractor with a plow and disks etc. I also have it set that I can build in frames for raised beds and use them to grow in doing a square foot garden sort of option... All hand tools and no gas powered anything. I will be setting up the watering system this summer. I have a well and will be setting up drip irrigation into certain areas of the garden. It rains a lot here so water really isnt the problem up here, it is keeping the soil warm so the plants have time to grow. When I set up the green house I will set it that run off from the roof rain will go into an under ground holding tank and that will be able to be pumped back out into the garden by a 12 volt pump run off a solar/wind set up. There by if I have elec or not I will always be able to grow something... the green house will have a propane heater and back up of a barrel wood stove...

I forage for blueberries, I have rose hips, highbush cranberries, watermelon berries, bunch berries, rasberries, and black currents growing here on my property presently. With the clearing I am going to put in my mini orchard of apple, apricot, and pear trees. I will also start the red currents and strawberries plus some blackberries. My yard produces bluebells, dandalion, pineapple weed, lambs quarter, plantin, horsetail, fiddlehead furns, and fireweed that all grows naturally for both madicinal and food in my yard. There are others both edible and madicinal also but those are the main ones.

I am going dipnetting for salmon.. will spend most of my days off this summer fishing for kings (now that I know the trick to catching them). I want to go moose hunting and have put the feelers out for any one that black bear hunts that I want their bear fat as long as the bears arnt into the fish when they take them...

In a back corner of my yard I will be setting up a strong little 16 x 16 or so pen for 2 pigs... I should be able to acqurire them in late fall next yr. I will winter them over while they are little and finish feeding them out by the end of the summer 2010 and should have quite a bit of fat from them. Plan to render the lard down from them into lard containers... for my yearly lard needs.

Since I am allergic to dairy, wheat, eggs, sugar, and a few other things I am trying to learn about traditional native foods and how they were prepared prior to the introduction of both processed sugar and flour.

I want to be as food self-sufficient as possible..


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## skip (Dec 13, 2008)

I do not know if there ever was a shortage of food here in the US, but I do know there was a shortage of the ability to afford food for some several times. People forget that before the social programs in place now, if you lost your job, you were pretty much on your own. Churches tried to help, but many times they were overwhelmed by the needs in a community.


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## littlechickenranchHen (Dec 30, 2008)

I have done something different in my preps this time. I have always done raised-bed gardening. I bought my plants and seeds from the local feed and seed store. I ordered open-pollinated and Heirloom seeds back in September and hope to begin seed saving this year. I am going to try my hand at starting my own transplants as well in the greenhouse. Also, we put in more fruit trees this year. I order from a co-op that gets from Breadbeckers and from Northeast buying clubs. I found a local source for buckets (the local bakery) and am stocking up heavily as money allows. I also "pantry" shop for groceries. I mean that I have a well stocked pantry and only buy things that are on sale such as B1G1F or loss-leaders. This leaves more money in the food budget for preps.


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## URBAN SURVIVORS (Dec 28, 2008)

*as far as sugar*

would honey be better than sugar to store? my neighbor owns a honey farm and tells me honey does not go bad and when it turns a white-ish and looks crusty, just put it out in the sun and it will be good to go..


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

Heat it up to decrystalize it yeah. I have no idea how long it lasts. Sugar doesn't go bad either does it??


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## CVORNurse (Oct 19, 2008)

AgentFlounder said:


> Heat it up to decrystalize it yeah. I have no idea how long it lasts. Sugar doesn't go bad either does it??


I think honey and white sugar will last most of forever. I was once given a jar of 5 year old honey. It was very dark, but very good. And I heard a report recently of 3000 year old honey discovered in a grave somewhere that was still edible.
However, brown sugar will turn on you if just left sitting out on the shelf. Not sure how long it will last if you vac pack it and protect it though.
(course, all brown sugar is, I think, is white sugar with a bit of molasses added in. I could make that myself if it came down to it.)


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

pure sugar will keep indefinitely as long as it is kept dry

there is a website:

heirloom - untreated - sustainable - vegetable seeds - Bountiful Gardens

that will send you a free catalog loaded with great deals on seeds & instruction manuals


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Anyone grow mushrooms on a log to harvest?


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Food Shortage...*



skip said:


> I do not know if there ever was a shortage of food here in the US, but I do know there was a shortage of the ability to afford food for some several times. People forget that before the social programs in place now, if you lost your job, you were pretty much on your own. Churches tried to help, but many times they were overwhelmed by the needs in a community.


During the first world war there was a food shortage in this country and world wide do to many issues.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

If properly stored many food items will last a long time, certain conditions will definitely spoil food; http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educators/competencies/general/bacteria/bac2.html
Food rotation is a primary way to keep supplies fresh for the long run storage; I always keep white sugar, honey, vinegar, salt, bouillon cubes, corn syrup, maple syrup, Ghee, hard liquor ,soy sauce, white rice ,baking soda ,cream of tartar, dry milk ,Apple Cider Vinegar and always rotated my white flour, all in food grade containers without a problem. For many years I stored dry corn and wheat but I don`t anymore, you need a grain mill for those and plenty of space. The point here is that properly storage is the key to food storage unless you are willing to spend lots of money on survival food and chemicals.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

readytogo said:


> If properly stored many food items will last a long time, certain conditions will definitely spoil food; http://www.foodsafetysite.com/educators/competencies/general/bacteria/bac2.html
> Food rotation is a primary way to keep supplies fresh for the long run storage;.


Rotation is good for storage, but being able to grow all your food is better:
1) first you can repeat it every month/season.
2) you may have to leave your stores, but knowledge will go with you.
3) some thing are easier to grow like potatoes instead of rice or wheat.
4)Honey,wax from bees,sugar cane or beets.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

However, brown sugar will turn on you if just left sitting out on the shelf. Not sure how long it will last if you vac pack it and protect it though.
********************************************************
I have brown sugar in buckets for years, with no special treatment, and it is good .


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

What I found.



(Unopened/Opened)	Pantry
Past Printed Date
Granulated White Sugar lasts for	Indefinitely
White Sugar Cubes last for	Indefinitely
Raw Sugar lasts for	Indefinitely
Brown Sugar lasts for	Indefinite, but Best within 2 Years
Powdered Sugar lasts for	Indefinite, but Best within 2 Years
Sugar Substitutes last for	Indefinite
Equal lasts for	Indefinite, but best within 2 Years
Sweet n Low lasts for	Indefinite, but best within 2 Years

way through a recipe, only to discover that a key ingredient is missing because you tossed it during your last cleaning spree. 

It’s a predicament you shouldn't have to face again — at least when it comes to the nine kitchen staples we've listed here.

When stored properly, these everyday items will last for years — sometimes decades — even after they’ve been opened. And they’ll lose very little, if any, of their original quality as time passes. So think twice before tossing one of these items. If you've been handling it correctly, chances are it's just fine. 


1. HONEY
Pure honey is as durable as it is delicious; it keeps safe indefinitely. Honey may change color or crystallize over time, but that won't make it unsafe.
Keep it fresh: Store in a cool area and keep tightly closed. Revive crystallized honey by placing the opened jar in warm water and stirring until dissolved.

2. RICE
White, wild, arborio, jasmine and basmati rice all have an indefinite shelf life, when kept free from contaminants. The exception: brown rice. Thanks to its higher oil content, it won’t keep nearly as long.

Keep it fresh: Store in a cool, dry area. Once opened, place rice in a sealed airtight container or place original package in a resealable heavy-duty freezer bag. For added protection, store rice in the refrigerator or freezer.

3. SUGAR
White, brown or powdered — sugar never spoils because it doesn’t support bacterial growth. The real challenge is to prevent it from becoming rock-hard.
Keep it fresh: Keep sugar in a cool, dry area. To prevent sugar from hardening after opening, place it in an airtight container or cover the original package in a heavy-duty plastic bag and seal tightly.

4. HARD LIQUOR
Whipping up some penne alla vodka and a pitcher of cocktails? Distilled spirits —vodka, rum, whiskey, gin, tequila and the like — don’t spoil, even after opening. The taste and aroma may fade gradually, but it’ll take ages before you notice. 
Keep it fresh: Store in cool, dark area, away from direct heat or sunlight. Keep bottle tightly closed when not in use.


5. MAPLE SYRUP
Pure maple syrup not only makes your pancakes special, it adds tremendous flavor to a whole range of dishes. Best of all, it keeps forever in the freezer.

Keep it fresh: Refrigerate after opening. For long-term storage, freeze maple syrup in airtight plastic containers.

6. PURE VANILLA EXTRACT
Yes, it’s more expensive than its imitation counterpart. But pure vanilla extract keeps forever, so you’ll never have to waste a drop.

Keep it fresh: Store in cool, dark cupboard and keep tightly closed when not in use.

7. DISTILLED WHITE VINEGAR
A reliable standby in everything from marinades to salad dressings, distilled white vinegar will remain virtually unchanged as the years pass by. 
Keep it fresh: Store vinegar a cool, dark area and keep tightly capped after each use.

8. CORNSTARCH
A must-have for thickening sauces, gravies, and puddings. Cornstarch will keep indefinitely if it's kept dry and free from contaminants.

Keep it fresh: Store in cool, dry area; keep package tightly closed between uses.


9. SALT
From the basic table variety to fancier versions like kosher and sea, salt is a flavor enhancer that never spoils or goes stale.

Keep it fresh: Store in cool, dry area.


For more information visit: the National Honey Board; the USA Rice Federation; the Vinegar Institute; McCormick & Company; Ach Food Companies; The Liquor Control Board of Ontario, the Sugar Association; the Salt Institute.


Related Articles:
Storing Rice: Cooked and Uncooked
Do Spices Ever Go Bad?
7 Popular Fruits and Vegetables That Last a Long Time


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

CVORNurse said:


> I think honey and white sugar will last most of forever. I was once given a jar of 5 year old honey. It was very dark, but very good. And I heard a report recently of 3000 year old honey discovered in a grave somewhere that was still edible.
> However, brown sugar will turn on you if just left sitting out on the shelf. Not sure how long it will last if you vac pack it and protect it though.
> (course, all brown sugar is, I think, is white sugar with a bit of molasses added in. I could make that myself if it came down to it.)


I have brown sugar vacuum sealed in 1/2 gallon jars in my pantry that is 4 years old and still soft and good.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

crabapple said:


> Anyone grow mushrooms on a log to harvest?


I did my first this year but it wasn't many, I need to buy more before fall. So it won't be until next year to know if it worked.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Honey actually can have problems. They have taken honey out of tombs over 2000 years old and it was fine. Crystallizing is where the problem can come in. Honey is dehydrated to 17% moisture I believe. At that moisture level nothing can grow in it. However if it crystallizes the honey that crystallized looses moisture content so it goes below the 17% which is fine, the problem is that moisture goes somewhere. If it moves into the rest of the honey it could increase the moisture content up to 19% and then stuff can grow in it. Keep in mind the percentages I threw out are from memory so may be off a tad but it is close, more importantly is the idea however.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

If honey gets much more than 19% water in it it can ferment. Crystals in honey do not affect it. If you don't want the crystals just put the jar of honey in a pan of warm water, let it sit, and the crystals will dissolve. 

Crystalized honey is sold under a number of names "whipped honey" being only one. It is worth 50% more than your basic clear honey.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

terri9630 said:


> I have brown sugar vacuum sealed in 1/2 gallon jars in my pantry that is 4 years old and still soft and good.


I just poured my brown sugar in a bucket in July, 2013 and it's fine with no preserving measures.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

JayJay said:


> I just poured my brown sugar in a bucket in July, 2013 and it's fine with no preserving measures.


You mean to say, no vacuum?


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

flour doesnt last but wheat berries last for thousands of years.

Why has no one mentioned twinkies? Half life 300 years.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

crabapple said:


> You mean to say, no vacuum?


Nothing--I just opened and filled my kitchen canister and it is fine stored from 2013..I don't know why!! different brown sugar maybe??
I bake with brown sugar but mostly use it for my homemade sweet and sour sauce.

For one pint:
1 cup white vinegar
1 cup brown sugar
4 TB ketchup
4 tsp soy sauce
boil till blended, mix 8 tsp. water with 4 tsp. cornstarch to thicken
Lasts long time in fridge.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

LastOutlaw said:


> flour doesnt last but wheat berries last for thousands of years.
> 
> Why has no one mentioned twinkies? Half life 300 years.


1) they are not food, they are sweets.
At least honey has some food value.
2) Half life is screwy in it self.


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