# prepping with animals and farming?



## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

I have 2 dogs one a chow mix the other a alano espanol. I couldn't imagine surviving with out them if the shtf. Im deaf in my left ear and along with affecting what i hear it has affected my ability to hear what direction the sounds i do hear are coming from. My dogs they are my best tools! The list of reasons i have for keeping them is a mile long. I will always and no matter what the world is doing have dogs. My wife and i basically grow all our own food, from meat to vegetables and even grind our own flour. So my questions are how many on here currently farm in one form or another and or have animals? And how many prep with the whole farm in mind and or animals? These questions are for anyone, even if you just grow one sad tomato plant each year and have a pet hermit crab im interested in your response.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I really can't imagine trying to survive in a PAW without agriculture.
that and being able to fix and build things


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

We could survive on what we raise even though we do have some store bought junk food. It would be touch and go when the Dr Pepper and coffee ran out. If we survive that without killing each other all we'd have to worry about forest fires and browse for the goats. Well that and "predators".


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

We do the gardening, turkeys, and chickens. I would really miss the beef. (and coffee)


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

We have 3 rotties and some kind of little dog (cat) that sits on my wife's lap and looks at her like it loves her more than life itself. The big dogs have their own bug out bags (see picture) and the little dog (cat) I presume will become food for the big dogs or my wife will put it in some kind of baby carrier. The big dogs serve many purposes, from early warning system to intruder deconstruction to pulling a bug out cart. The little dog (cat) serves no purpose whatsoever. The big dogs can also hunt quite well on their own, the little dog can too surprisingly enough. I have every intention on them surviving right along side us, right up until it becomes a matter of dog vs human survival. And then, of course, human wins everytime. And by human I mean human that I love not just any human.










If we stay home we have a fair sized garden and numerous flower beds/pots that would become gardens. We can on a limited basis and have a fair amount of "fresh" food here from the last several years of growing and canning. If we bug out our BOL (a farm with a vacation home and a private lake) has a very large garden and a large row of raspberry bushes, as well as some animals. We currently have a caretaker who tends to the lawn & garden every year and in return get a paycheck and 50% of the produce. The rest he cans and stores in the root cellar. Our BOL also has many "vintage" kitchen items in storage, from hand crank meat/flour grinders to sausage stuffers. It also has a large brick outdoor oven. So while we don't "farm" we certainly will if things go to hell in a handbasket.


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## Danil54 (May 8, 2017)

We do farm to raise what we eat but do still buy staples from the store that we can not grow once a year when I get my major discount for being an employee at a grocery store. Veggies and fruits get canned, dried & frozen along with the meat we raise. Pigs, cows, chickens & goats. Most of the butchering happens here except for the cattle. We just don't have a walk-in cooler big enough for those bad boys, but in a shtf situation, where there is a will, there is a way. Besides, it wouldn't be just hunny and I at that time and would have help processing the 800 + lbs of meat. As for house critters, we have one worthless cat that has been declared. Someone had done the declawing and dumped her, so I brought her home. Then I have three is he dogs, a dingo, akita, and pit/lab mix. All are considered part of my family and have been thought of when we stock up. Those dogs are like my kids since all of ours have grown up and started their own families. We have enough for on hand to last us a good long while and since we are in the south, pretty much have a garden year round so something is always growing.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

We live on an acreage with plenty of room for self sustaining gardens and animals if necessary.

In the last 3 years we have had to put down 3 dogs, 2 of them we had for more then 10 years, they were our kids. They were always on alert and gave us plenty of warning of other humans or animals near our house (BTW they had a different bark for humans and animals). They were a valuable part of our family.

We have yet decided if we will become pet owners again. Both of us are in our 60's and getting a dog that could live another 15 years maybe past our live spans.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tweto said:


> We have yet decided if we will become pet owners again. Both of us are in our 60's and getting a dog that could live another 15 years maybe past our live spans.


Hey, I'll be 71 in a few days, and I have two dogs, one 10 1/2 months old, one 9 1/2 months old, both will likely live for another 12-15 years. Me, who knows? If I croak, my brother or cousin will take the dogs. Gotta have the dogs...they are family!!


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Some of my most difficult planning has involved the dogs and horses. Feeding both (4 dogs, 2 horses) would be challenging, I have the land but not pasture(yet) to sustain the horses and the dogs would just be hard, probably be trapping a lot and those scraps could go to the dogs.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

with the number of people that think a farm is just a house with a really big lawn any kind of event that stops the trucks for more than a week will result in a huge die-off. If by chance you don't think it is that fragile just watch the amount of truck traffic at the back of a big food store for a day or 2. PAW you better be able to produce food, or have some other useful skill, most of the current job skills will be pretty useless then.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

We usually grow a large garden. But due to the wife's health we have scaled back the last couple years. Plans are to bump that back up next spring. We can grow most all of our veggies and a decent amount of our fruit if we plant enough. We had chickens but after a couple years the predators won out. I'm upgrading my run to eliminate that problem and will get more birds next year as well. We may add goats and possibly a pig at some point. I'm pretty confident I can grow enough to feed those should we get the. We've also got a 9yo golden retriever. Good dog to let us know if someone is around. But otherwise just a pet. We do stock a decent amount of dry food for her.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I drove an 18 wheeler for about a year. If I wasn't hauling food, I was hauling beer, both loads will always be right at maximum (38,000-40,000 pounds). 

Because of this I could see the mass of trucks coming and going from distribution centers and some of the distribution centers have 200 truck docks and are a mile long. Trucks waiting in line 10 deep to drop off their loads and to pick loads up. I would pick-up at the harbor docks in New Jersey and deliver to a distribution center in Chicago and then turn around and go back and do it again.

The worst were the loads to Walmart. They cheated by loading trucks with hazardous material in weights below the level requiring special paper work.

People don't realize that trucks bring about 95% of every consumer item to stores, if the trucks stop running expect the worst.

Sorry for all the ranting about driving a truck.


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## SewingMachine (Mar 26, 2017)

I would expect my dog to feed himself to some extent. When he are out on the river, he eats dead stuff like a hyena. Geese, deer, whatever. He has never seemed to suffer any harm. I don't worry about him. Shepard/cattle dog mix.

We have a garden, I HAD a stealth garden (it failed) and we have some hydroponics. About the best we can do in the condo.

I can collect rainwater right out of the gutter above the deck, I tried it and it works well in a heavy rain. So that's nice to have.

I have had rabbits, chickens, ducks, geese, and hogs In the past. 

For a SHTF situation, I would want rabbits and chickens. Small, easy to feed, easy to house, easy to butcher, and easy to breed.

Cant wait to get OUT of this condo. I must really love the wife.


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## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

We've got some land, and some animals, and some trees, and some plants, and some water, and some buildings, and some neighbors, and some friends, and some tools, and some supplies, and some other stuff. 
Not a lot of machines, though. 
Probably need more strong backs and sharp minds to keep going if things went real bad. 
Our working dogs will surely have a key place in that, though I fully expect that a few will fulfill their purpose to die for us.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

This is cool. It's fun to see how like minded we can be. I honestly don't consider myself a prepper. Im a farmer who does things the old way as much as possible. I believe in self sustainability because i don't want my family eating the poison from the grocery store and because i dont like depending on anyone for my next meal. This country has a tendency to shit all over farmers. Most need to remember that we will not skip a beat when the shtf. We already can fix or build anything, and coming up with ways to do stuff without the right tools is second nature to us. So even though i don't consider myself a prepper, the line between prepper and farmer is a blurry one. Also it is good to remember that most farm animals are also excellent at finding their own food. Especially heritage breeds. That's why we focus on them for their durability. And the flavor is the best you can find.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Also Sentry was cracking me up talking about his wifes little dog! On that subject in my opinion little dogs hold a perfect place in the shtf world. They are excellent for rodent control where cats are good at killing a rodent here and there they also kill tons of small game causing the small game population to decline with no benefit to humans. A dog will kill rats one after the other all day long if given the chance. And can also be trained to kill and bring back the small game for our benefit. Granted dogs like Chihuahuas seem like nature's little joke. This is why i choose dogs based on what the breed is for. All dogs live to be a working dog. They all have jobs just most people don't have a clue as to what it is and just choose a dog because it was cute as a puppy...


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

RedBeard said:


> Also Sentry was cracking me up talking about his wifes little dog! On that subject in my opinion little dogs hold a perfect place in the shtf world. They are excellent for rodent control where cats are good at killing a rodent here and there they also kill tons of small game causing the small game population to decline with no benefit to humans. A dog will kill rats one after the other all day long if given the chance. And can also be trained to kill and bring back the small game for our benefit. Granted dogs like Chihuahuas seem like nature's little joke. This is why i choose dogs based on what the breed is for. All dogs live to be a working dog. They all have jobs just most people don't have a clue as to what it is and just choose a dog because it was cute as a puppy...


Her dog (cat) is 1/2 Beagle and 1/2 Boston Terrier. It's a 21lb rabbit killing machine. Which we did not realize until this spring, but so far I think she has taken out about 8-9 of them. But it's primary job is to sit on my wife's lap and stare at her longingly, go to the spa(w) for her monthly beauty treatments, sit on her memory foam bed and watch out the window and have me threaten to feed her to the Rotties because she sits in whines at me for attention. I would have thought her useless until I started having to take dead bunnies away from her in the back yard.


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## bacpacker (Jul 15, 2011)

Red beard farming is where I grew up at. Learned early on to work with my hands and not be afraid of hard work. We to go more toward the old ways, to some extent. Due to time constrains I use new stuff to, but can switch over pretty easily.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

bacpacker said:


> Red beard farming is where I grew up at. Learned early on to work with my hands and not be afraid of hard work. We to go more toward the old ways, to some extent. Due to time constrains I use new stuff to, but can switch over pretty easily.


Oh i love my ryobi impact driver!


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Sentry18 said:


> Her dog (cat) is 1/2 Beagle and 1/2 Boston Terrier. It's a 21lb rabbit killing machine. Which we did not realize until this spring, but so far I think she has taken out about 8-9 of them. But it's primary job is to sit on my wife's lap and stare at her longingly, go to the spa(w) for her monthly beauty treatments, sit on her memory foam bed and watch out the window and have me threaten to feed her to the Rotties because she sits in whines at me for attention. I would have thought her useless until I started having to take dead bunnies away from her in the back yard.


Oh boy that's a heck of a mix. My concrete boss breeds Boston terriers. His are kinda mental but his male is the first dog i have seen catch a squirrel. He hates anything small and furry and shows it by killing it. Makes me laugh.


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## Danil54 (May 8, 2017)

I love doing things considered the old way too. If I can find something hand cranked Ill opt for that instead of the electric on most things, but just don't ask me to ever give up my Kitchenaid with all its attachments. I'll plug that baby into a generator if need be! Or my milk machine. . . with carpletunnel that is a lifesaver for these hands.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Danil54 said:


> I love doing things considered the old way too. If I can find something hand cranked Ill opt for that instead of the electric on most things, but just don't ask me to ever give up my Kitchenaid with all its attachments. I'll plug that baby into a generator if need be! Or my milk machine. . . with carpletunnel that is a lifesaver for these hands.


My wife strongly agrees with you on that! And i hate milking by hand and i love the food she makes with her kitchenaid so i strongly agree too!


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Danil54 said:


> I love doing things considered the old way too. If I can find something hand cranked Ill opt for that instead of the electric on most things, but just don't ask me to ever give up my Kitchenaid with all its attachments. I'll plug that baby into a generator if need be! Or my milk machine. . . with carpletunnel that is a lifesaver for these hands.


I love my kitchen aid and my milking machine. I'm looking to have solar added to my barn so I can use my milker in the shade.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

Horses, goats, chickens, garden, fruit trees here. All up and running, producing and reproducing as it should.

For those who are planning to garden when and if.... I suggest that you make one now to see how it goes. My gardens at 2 of my last locations were huge failures. One due to poor soil and heat and the other due to grasshoppers and heat. If I had to live off of them we all would starve for sure. Also, if shtf in the fall and your garden is planted in spring the harvest won't be for months after that *if* it produces without problems.

Had to come back and add Dogs, cats and of course the donkey. Can't leave her out.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

For those planning on raising rabbits. Make sure they can survive your climate. We HAVE to bring them inside the house during the day when it starts getting above 95 or they will die. We have fans on them, misters and auto waters connected to our 1500gal tank so they are OK up till that point unless it gets humid. Also, bucks will go sterile when temps hit 90 and won't be able to 'produce' no matter how many times he breeds the doe until temps cool back down. Around here that means breeding season is from late fall to mid spring.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

terri9630 said:


> For those planning on raising rabbits. Make sure they can survive your climate. We HAVE to bring them inside the house during the day when it starts getting above 95 or they will die. We have fans on them, masters and auto waters connected to our 1500gal tank so they are OK up till that point unless it gets humid. Also, bucks will go sterile when temps hit 90 and won't be able to 'produce' no matter how many times he breeds the doe until temps cool back down. Around here that means breeding season is from late fall to mid spring.


Well that bit of news sure eliminated any rabbit production at the TIN HAT HOUSE. Since the topic is farm animals, are goats able to graze on mesquite type landscapes? How well do goats handle extreme heat? I plan to keep the Bee house cool but a goat house would be a bit too much.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

tmttactical said:


> Well that bit of news sure eliminated any rabbit production at the TIN HAT HOUSE. Since the topic is farm animals, are goats able to graze on mesquite type landscapes? How well do goats handle extreme heat? I plan to keep the Bee house cool but a goat house would be a bit too much.


Goats are browsers. They will eat your trees and bushes before any grass. They like the mesquite and have been doing pretty well with the heat as long as they have shade and plenty of water. Our never ending wind helps too. The heat does affect milk production if you have any dairy girls. Dairy goats are seasonal breeders and are bred once a year. Meat goats will breed at any time and they can be bred twice a year but it's hard on them.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

terri9630 said:


> Goats are browsers. They will eat your trees and bushes before any grass. They like the mesquite and have been doing pretty well with the heat as long as they have shade and plenty of water. Our never ending wind helps too. The heat does affect milk production if you have any dairy girls. Dairy goats are seasonal breeders and are bred once a year. Meat goats will breed at any time and they can be bred twice a year but it's hard on them.


Thanks Terri, I don't plan on dairy goats but meat goats were a possibility. The land I am interested in is 200 acres of desert mesquite. No grass, just desert scrub brush. Water will not be an issue but shade, could be a problem. I will have to schedule the goat purchase after the citrus orchard has had a chance to grow above goat nibbling height. How long after birth before a goat is ready to be harvested? Nice way of saying killed and eaten. I expect the citrus orchard to be 6 to 8 years before any fruit is ready to pick, so the goats would be purchased in that time frame.

Hopefully I am getting enough knowledge from this forum to be able to make this all work. Time will tell in the end.


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## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

Well we have 320 acres and about 120 is in pasture and hay, the rest forest and ponds. We get all our firewood off our property. We raise our own beef, sheep, chickens, and partner with our neighbour about two miles away with hogs. Have horses and they are used for ranch work and hunting. Are also broke to drive and pack. We put up our own hay. We grow a huge garden and do a lot of canning and have a good root cellar. 

We also do a lot of hunting, trapping and fishing. Moose, elk, whitetail, black bear right in the backyard. We trap coyotes, wolves, lynx, beaver, marten, fisher, mink, muskrat, fox and a few weasels. Lots of waterfowl and upland birds in the area. Five lakes within a 4 mile radius of our farm with walleye, northerns, perch, brown and rainbow trout. Also big sucker runs in the spring.
We can northerns and trout. Also make a few gallons of fish oil every year out of those fatty suckers. Lots of uses for that. And we render down both bear fat and pork fat for lard.

Do all of our own butchering, sausage, jerk and curing of hams and bacon. 

We have 4 dogs. Three small ones (schnauzers) and a doberman. All scrap trim off our livestock and game animals is ground and stored for the dogs. In a pinch, if the SHTF we could utilize all the beaver, muskrat and **** carcasses for dog food as well as net and freeze or dry suckers for the pooches.

Cannot possibly imagine life without our furry companions. The small dogs are keen hunters and the doberman is absolutely a god send when it comes to protection. He chases bears out of the yard when needed and with people he just has to stand around in his doberman clothes and give them "the stare" to
make them think twice.  The small dogs are also nice bed warmers when it is -30 or so in the winter. LOL


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

tmttactical said:


> Thanks Terri, I don't plan on dairy goats but meat goats were a possibility. The land I am interested in is 200 acres of desert mesquite. No grass, just desert scrub brush. Water will not be an issue but shade, could be a problem. I will have to schedule the goat purchase after the citrus orchard has had a chance to grow above goat nibbling height. How long after birth before a goat is ready to be harvested? Nice way of saying killed and eaten. I expect the citrus orchard to be 6 to 8 years before any fruit is ready to pick, so the goats would be purchased in that time frame.
> 
> Hopefully I am getting enough knowledge from this forum to be able to make this all work. Time will tell in the end.


Our fair boar goats are 8-10 months old and between 80-110 lbs. That's with a good feed ration. Our dairy kids are taller and on alfalfa only after weaning but aren't as meaty. I have a guy who buys one of the dairy kids from me for the 4th of July every year. He prefers the younger dairy goats. He buys them at 5 months at about 40lbs.

An open shelter, roof only will provide shade. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Mine have a 3 sided barn and a couple of outside "pallet houses" so everyone has shelter when the boss doesn't want to share.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

The boss. She's my favorite. I tried to turn the second picture. It didn't work...


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

terri9630 said:


> Our fair boar goats are 8-10 months old and between 80-110 lbs. That's with a good feed ration. Our dairy kids are taller and on alfalfa only after weaning but aren't as meaty. I have a guy who buys one of the dairy kids from me for the 4th of July every year. He prefers the younger dairy goats. He buys them at 5 months at about 40lbs.
> 
> An open shelter, roof only will provide shade. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. Mine have a 3 sided barn and a couple of outside "pallet houses" so everyone has shelter when the boss doesn't want to share.


I don't know enough about farming yet to know if this property could grow feed. There is still so much to learn and then translate into action, hopefully with positive results. The project won't physically start (break ground) for 3 to 5 years but I need to have everything mapped out and ready for each development phase. This house / ranch / farm is being designed for multi-generational usage but I have to start the planning phase now. My son will take over once the main construction is completed.

Like superman, hopefully able to leap tall buildings or at least scrub brush.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

tmttactical said:


> I don't know enough about farming yet to know if this property could grow feed. There is still so much to learn and then translate into action, hopefully with positive results. The project won't physically start (break ground) for 3 to 5 years but I need to have everything mapped out and ready for each development phase. This house / ranch / farm is being designed for multi-generational usage but I have to start the planning phase now. My son will take over once the main construction is completed.
> 
> Like superman, hopefully able to leap tall buildings or at least scrub brush.


They will still grow on scrub brush. Just not as fast. Only our show goats and the girls giving milk get feed. We buy a show goat complete pellet. The rest get just alfalfa and an occasional treat. They love peanut butter and will drool for french fries. You can butcher at any age, just depends on when you think they are big enough. I don't know about taste when they are raised on mesquite, but on alfalfa they are very close to beef.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I can see that if things do go to hell in a handbasket I am in for quite the learning adventure. I don't have "all" the skills but we have many people in our MAG who do, some already living near our family farm (as in on the farm next door) and some who would bug out there.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

We live in a woods and we're not young so a large garden is not practical. Do have a small clearing with raised beds for the wife's tomatoes and squash. Enough to make her happy.

Chickens will be a two years old this spring. Egg production is down, they might be going on the chopping block this fall with a new flock come spring.

I do have a neighbor who is a Farmer. We trade services now, my eggs for fresh baked goods. SHTF I'd be trading the neighbor eggs and fire/heating wood for fresh food. 

On the list "What I'd like to do" is fence the property so I can start raising a few goats or sheep for meat.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

TheLazyL said:


> We live in a woods and we're not young so a large garden is not practical. Do have a small clearing with raised beds for the wife's tomatoes and squash. Enough to make her happy.
> 
> Chickens will be a two years old this spring. Egg production is down, they might be going on the chopping block this fall with a new flock come spring.
> 
> ...


Make sure you have a STURDY fence. Goats will "climb" up on the fence and eventually pull it down. I use the horse panels, like cattle panels but with kid proof holes and they stand up well to goat abuse. Cattle panels are cheaper but the kids will go right through the openings.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> For those planning on raising rabbits. Make sure they can survive your climate. We HAVE to bring them inside the house during the day when it starts getting above 95 or they will die. We have fans on them, misters and auto waters connected to our 1500gal tank so they are OK up till that point unless it gets humid. Also, bucks will go sterile when temps hit 90 and won't be able to 'produce' no matter how many times he breeds the doe until temps cool back down. Around here that means breeding season is from late fall to mid spring.


I don't have to worry about the "above 95 degree" part, but how do they do in 20 degrees BELOW zero? Are they as hardy as wild rabbits? The shed (hutch?) is going to be heated, sort of, with waste heat from the generator shed....is that going to be enough? Not worried about the goats, chickens, ducks, pigs, rabbits during the Spring, Summer, or Fall, it's getting them through the Winter I'm concerned with. Not much snow, but it does get cold!
:scratch


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> I don't have to worry about the "above 95 degree" part, but how do they do in 20 degrees BELOW zero? Are they as hardy as wild rabbits? The shed (hutch?) is going to be heated, sort of, with waste heat from the generator shed....is that going to be enough? Not worried about the goats, chickens, ducks, pigs, rabbits during the Spring, Summer, or Fall, it's getting them through the Winter I'm concerned with. Not much snow, but it does get cold!
> :scratch


We've been down to -6 with no problems. Make sure they have a good wind block and something to eat. When we were expecting the -6 we added hay to the cages. Some ate it some burrowed into it. If you have babies at that point, bring the nest box inside. The doe won't mind as long as you give her the right babies. Just take it out to mom for about 10 min twice a day so she can feed them. Some does only feed once a day. That's all they need. Rabbits can get dehydrated in the winter if there water is frozen so make sure to give them thawed water several times a day.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Make sure all the animals have a good shelter. They will grow the winter coat they need to stay warm. For the goats, keep your buck separate so you can control the delivery dates. If it gets that cold you really don't want newborns in Jan or Feb. Schedule them for a warmer month.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

We have a small 23 ac farm with a cabin and several outbuildings. We live about 2 miles away on the water. We have access to fish, crabs, mussels, oysters ect. At the farm we have 2 great pyrs that live out in the field with the sheep, goats, chickens and turkeys. We also have a gun dog for ducks and geese. We have bees and a garden. We have started an orchard but also have many wild fruit and nut trees on our property. We have water catchment, a hand pump well but no electricity at the farm and we may not get it. So far it has forced us to think outside the box. We are life long hunters, trappers and fishermen and live in a target rich environment. Having said all that, I feel we lack several essentials. I don't have a summer kitchen setup, smokehouse, and root cellar. I would also love to have a huge cache of salt and more hives. I also would like to greatly increase our selection of perennials like groundnuts, sun chokes, berries ect. I also would like way more hand tools than we currently have. I am thankful for what we have so far but don't feel ready to be totally self sufficient and may never reach that goal.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> We've been down to -6 with no problems. Make sure they have a good wind block and something to eat. When we were expecting the -6 we added hay to the cages. Some ate it some burrowed into it. *If you have babies at that point, bring the nest box inside. The doe won't mind as long as you give her the right babies.* Just take it out to mom for about 10 min twice a day so she can feed them. Some does only feed once a day. That's all they need. Rabbits can get dehydrated in the winter if there water is frozen so make sure to give them thawed water several times a day.


How about just bringing Momma in with them? Maybe I'm goofy, but it just doesn't seem right to separate them......


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> How about just bringing Momma in with them? Maybe I'm goofy, but it just doesn't seem right to separate them......


Rabbits are prey animals. Their only defense is to run and hide. The doe will only visit her kits once or twice a day. The rest of the day she stays away to keep them safer from predators. Even if you bring her in with them she wont mother them like other animals do.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> Rabbits are prey animals. Their only defense is to run and hide. The doe will only visit her kits once or twice a day. The rest of the day she stays away to keep them safer from predators. Even if you bring her in with them she wont mother them like other animals do.


Ahhhh, I see, said the blind man!. Learn something new every day!! :2thumb:


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Ahhhh, I see, said the blind man!. Learn something new every day!! :2thumb:


I've had several people call me because they were worried about the lack of 'maternal' behavior. Had a lady insist the doe should be more like a dog or cat and locked the doe in the nest with the kits. The doe was so stressed that she killed them. The doe won't reject the kits because you Handel them either. Most don't mind though you may get a doe that gets aggressive. Does can be very territorial but normally only with other rabbits.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

terri, have you ever tried raising rabbits in a warren or do you feel that cages are the way to go?


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

HardCider said:


> terri, have you ever tried raising rabbits in a warren or do you feel that cages are the way to go?


I haven't but I know someone that has. All her rabbits disappeared. They dug out. Before that she was having a hard time keeping up with who was being bred, when, how many kits and does fighting. There was also the problem of catching the kits since you couldn't handle them while they were small and hiding underground.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> Inside the hive needs to be 80*F for wax production so don't over cool. The bees can control their own heat with proper ventilation. Bees need a water source just like you. They use it to drink and for cooling.


This is the Lizard, no space is going to be blow 80 degrees. My personal home thermostat is set at 82, so the wife can survive.  But thanks for the info. The more I learn the fewer mistakes I am going to make. Is 80 a good temp in the winter for he Bees also or should I change the comfort zone for them?


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

We get -20 here. Winter is pretty darn cold. We don't heat any of the animals. They all winter great. But part of that is choosing breeds that work better for your climate. And like Terri said give them a decent shelter. That said my pigs wake up alot covered in snow. They really don't care whats going on with the weather. I got sick of the ducks quacking at me and pooping everywhere so i ate them but before that i chopped a big hole in the ice for them every day during the winter and they always went in. Even on the coldest days, right in the water they go. Farming is easy, in my opinion the hard part is dealing with failure. One thing for those that are not farming now but are planning on it, you might want to start now. By the time the shtf it will be to late. There is a lot of trial and error or as i call it failure. It will be difficult to get animals and seeds plus you need all that grow time. If the s#@! hit tomorrow i dont care i just keep moving as normal. My food is already established. ....


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard...."I got sick of the ducks quacking at me and pooping everywhere so i ate them..."

Jeeez, I'm sure they didn't mean anything personal....man, that's kinda drastic, ain't it??? :lolsmash:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> Forty is a good winter temperature. It keeps the queen from laying. If it gets too warm, much over 50F then they might break the ball and not make it back when it cools that evening. You will be shooting for a constant temp within a couple of degrees each way.


Since I really liked the Bee House concept and had planned to control the environment, it is simple enough to set the thermostat to maintain a preferred temp. The hard part and time consuming part is learning the in's and out's of Bee keeping. I don't know if I will be able to find somebody to study under but I do plan to read and research as much as possible. Once the Bee House is built, I plan to start with 3 hives (inserted into the House) and then take it from there. I read it is better to start with multiple hives so you can compare development and hopefully spot any problems early. The good part is I have some time, (if it does not hit the fan) the bad part is there is just so much to learn.

I do appreciate all the members who have and will contribute to my education. Without this forum and the wonderful members, this project would not be possible. Thanks to all.--- Even the Wizard, Oh that hurt.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Lizard....errr, I mean Tmttactical...stay outta the ice cream and it won't hurt so much!!


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> RedBeard...."I got sick of the ducks quacking at me and pooping everywhere so i ate them..."
> 
> Jeeez, I'm sure they didn't mean anything personal....man, that's kinda drastic, ain't it??? :lolsmash:


Have you ever eaten domestic duck? Not drastic, delicious! Every time i would go out the door they would chase around behind me quacking so loud i couldn't think because they thought they needed food every two seconds. Plus they were destroying the pond along with contaminating the water supply. And im a mobile butcher with a waste not attitude. I also figured out my favorite way to cook duck is to wrap them in bacon, stuff them with cut up apples and bake them on a rack. So good!


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> Since I really liked the Bee House concept and had planned to control the environment, it is simple enough to set the thermostat to maintain a preferred temp. The hard part and time consuming part is learning the in's and out's of Bee keeping. I don't know if I will be able to find somebody to study under but I do plan to read and research as much as possible. Once the Bee House is built, I plan to start with 3 hives (inserted into the House) and then take it from there. I read it is better to start with multiple hives so you can compare development and hopefully spot any problems early. The good part is I have some time, (if it does not hit the fan) the bad part is there is just so much to learn.
> 
> I do appreciate all the members who have and will contribute to my education. Without this forum and the wonderful members, this project would not be possible. Thanks to all.--- Even the Wizard, Oh that hurt.


Although having a mentor is handy and can help prevent learning that hard way, i have found there is nothing that i can't learn to do. Im sure most on here are not that much different. Im no bee expert and lave learned the hard way a few times, but i still say the most important part of any creature is knowing their behavior. Makes it easy to raise and keep them. As complex as they can be they are still way simpler than humans. ....


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

RedBeard said:


> Although having a mentor is handy and can help prevent learning that hard way, i have found there is nothing that i can't learn to do. Im sure most on here are not that much different. Im no bee expert and lave learned the hard way a few times, but i still say the most important part of any creature is knowing their behavior. Makes it easy to raise and keep them. As complex as they can be they are still way simpler than humans. ....


Nothing confuses me like people. Computers, not a problem, mechanical equipment, no problem, people every time.

I will never, every figure out how or why a person with no skills, limited education, breeding like a rabbit, expects to be treated as someone special and should have their bills paid for by other people. When the Democrat Congress donates 50% of all their money (not just their government checks) to pay for those suffering from income inequality, then I might be able to understand there is a need, not until then.

Anyway, back on topic. I read, research, ask questions, plan, design, re-design and plan some more. When the time is right, the Tin Hat House will move forward and come alive.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

RedBeard,
we did the same thing and no longer have ducks and for the same reason. They were funny to watch and very friendly but trashed the water everytime


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> Nothing confuses me like people. Computers, not a problem, mechanical equipment, no problem, people every time.
> 
> I will never, every figure out how or why a person with no skills, limited education, breeding like a rabbit, expects to be treated as someone special and should have their bills paid for by other people. When the Democrat Congress donates 50% of all their money (not just their government checks) to pay for those suffering from income inequality, then I might be able to understand there is a need, not until then.
> 
> Anyway, back on topic. I read, research, ask questions, plan, design, re-design and plan some more. When the time is right, the Tin Hat House will move forward and come alive.


Blows my mind.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

HardCider said:


> RedBeard,
> we did the same thing and no longer have ducks and for the same reason. They were funny to watch and very friendly but trashed the water everytime


People don't realize how bad they trash water.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> People don't realize how bad they trash water.


I certainly didn't! I plan on having ducks at the BOL...am I gonna have a problem with them? Do I have to keep them way apart from everything else (chickens, goats, pigs, rabbits)?? Should I put in a small man-made pond for 'em? (There is a stream on the property, I kinda figured they'd use that, but maybe not....) I am finding out there is a bit more to this duck (and goat) thing than I was aware of!!!! :scratch


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> I certainly didn't! I plan on having ducks at the BOL...am I gonna have a problem with them? Do I have to keep them way apart from everything else (chickens, goats, pigs, rabbits)?? Should I put in a small man-made pond for 'em? (There is a stream on the property, I kinda figured they'd use that, but maybe not....) I am finding out there is a bit more to this duck (and goat) thing than I was aware of!!!! :scratch


Well if it is drinking water for you or the other critters you don't want ducks in it. Then they sift with their bills in the water and if its running water they erode the stream banks. Kiddie pools work really good for them. Depending on how many ducks you get you are better off running 2 smaller pools than 1 larger pool. It is easier to dump and clean the littler ones witch you will probably do twice a day because they will make the water filthy almost immediately. If you eating them then great, have at it, but if it is just because you like them, well you wont for long. If i really wanted ducks again i would get a pair of Indian runners and fence them in my garden with a kiddie pool. This of course is my opinion and it might be worth it for you. If you get them and don't like they they are delightful wrapped in bacon and baked on a rack after a quick bit of apple smoke.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> Well if it is drinking water for you or the other critters you don't want ducks in it. Then they sift with their bills in the water and if its running water they erode the stream banks. Kiddie pools work really good for them. Depending on how many ducks you get you are better off running 2 smaller pools than 1 larger pool. It is easier to dump and clean the littler ones witch you will probably do twice a day because they will make the water filthy almost immediately. If you eating them then great, have at it, but if it is just because you like them, well you wont for long. If i really wanted ducks again i would get a pair of Indian runners and fence them in my garden with a kiddie pool. This of course is my opinion and it might be worth it for you. If you get them and don't like they they are delightful wrapped in bacon and baked on a rack after a quick bit of apple smoke.


OK, putting them in the garden area, which will be fenced in anyway, and sticking a couple kiddie pools in there sounds pretty good. I figured on dual use...eating the ducks, and most of their eggs. Lot of people don't like duck eggs, but I do!

Question: How many ducks to START with?

For the chickens, I figured 6-8, Jersey Giants, with one rooster.
Dual use, eggs and cooking. Got that breed from BackYardChickenFarmer (http://thebackyardchickenfarmer.com/5-best-meat-chicken-breeds/) Excerpt: "Jersey Giant - Originating in the United States, this bird was developed to replace the turkey. A purebred chicken, the Giant's weight averages 11-13 pounds. Jersey Giants grow at a slower rate than other meat birds, about 6 months to full maturity, making them undesirable to commercial industry. While originally a meat chicken, *today, the Giant is prized as a dual-purpose bird, laying extra-large brown eggs."*

For the goats, I figured 5 (4 females, one male), of the Apocalypse variety, which I got info from on ModernFarmer. (http://modernfarmer.com/2013/09/find-right-goat/)
Excerpt: "APOCALYPSE GOAT. (African Pygmy Goat)
Remember Biosphere 2? Eight people locked themselves inside a closed ecological system in the Arizona desert for two years during the 1990s in a Noah's Ark-style experiment - and they brought several *African Pygmy goats* with them. These goats were selected for their efficient rate of biomass conversion - *their ability to change otherwise indigestible weeds and grasses into delicious milk and meat.* When cabin fever set in at Biosphere 2, the humans feuded, but the Pygmies remained magnanimous.

Not sure about the pigs yet, but am leaning toward Tamworths. Info from CountrySideNetwork.
(http://countrysidenetwork.com/daily/livestock/pigs/5-hog-breeds-for-the-backyard-homesteader/)
Excerpt: "If I were to choose a breed to raise today, it would be Tamworths. *If sustainable and easy to raise hog breeds interest you, then you can't do much better. Originating in the United Kingdom, Tamworth pigs were imported into the United States by Thomas Bennett in 1882, according to the Livestock Conservancy. They have possibly the easiest natures of all the hog breeds and are excellent foragers that love nuts. But the best part of raising Tamworth pigs is they're the easiest to pasture of all the hog breeds, and they thrive on grazing grass and forests.* If much of your property is forested, then Tamworth pigs might be a great way to make use of it. Most pigs willingly eat grass, but require supplementary feed, such as commercial grain, corn, or kitchen leftovers, to reach harvest weight. *Tamworths, on the other hand, do very well on pasture, reaching a harvest weight of more winner 500 pounds. Despite their large size, their easy-going natures make them perfect for a first-time pig farmer.*

Rabbits.....Think I'll go with the New Zealand. Info from MorningChores. Not sure about how many rabbits to START with, though. 2 females, one male?? ONE female, one male?? *MorningChores says ONE rabbit can produce up to anywhere from 125 pounds to 250 pounds of meat per year.* (Depending on how frequently the doe is bred and how many kits per litter.) Don't want *too much meat,* I want a "varied diet," not 5,000 lbs of ONE thing!! There are only gonna be two of us there, after all, and we can only eat & freeze so much. Don't want to OVERDO it!!
(https://morningchores.com/raising-rabbits/)
Excerpt: "For beginners, I highly recommend raising New Zealand rabbits. They are big, white rabbits that grow to be the size of a large cat. It is important to know that when raising rabbits for meat that the older the rabbit gets, the tougher the meat becomes. The perfect butchering age is around 8 weeks of age. This means you will need a larger breed so it will be a decent size by the 8-week mark."

As you can see, I have been doing some research, and I just hope I'm on the right track! :hmmm: :scratch


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## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

HardCider said:


> RedBeard,
> we did the same thing and no longer have ducks and for the same reason. They were funny to watch and very friendly but trashed the water everytime


Yes we did this as well. They just make a terrible mess. Found it was easier to just wait until mid-October when the Northern Mallards are coming through by the thousands. Get out the old 12 gauge and shoot all the ducks we need in short order and have some quality time in the field.

That time of year they are easy to pluck, no pin feathers, and they are fat as heck. Stuff them with onion and wild rice and a nice orange glaze. Hard to beat.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> OK, putting them in the garden area, which will be fenced in anyway, and sticking a couple kiddie pools in there sounds pretty good. I figured on dual use...eating the ducks, and most of their eggs. Lot of people don't like duck eggs, but I do!
> 
> Question: How many ducks to START with?
> 
> ...


Jersey giants are feed hogs, just one thing to consider. They do taste good though. Me i raise Dominique, dorkings, and Indian game birds. I have a specific breeding program going as well. I also raise black spanish-slate crosses and chocolate turkey's. Point is don't be afraid to mix up the flock a little. Verities can produce a better out come. Goats you got that covered. Pygmies are great! Now as for pigs most of the heritage breeds do the same thing as tamworths. Some are even better at it than them. I have raised a lot of pigs and butchered a heck of alot more. My favorite pig to eat is any that is half old spot. I prefer a durock old spot cross. I would even put old spot as a better forager than a tam. Old spotis a lard pig witch is very very useful in the end of the world or if your like me useful every day. The key for any critter is to go heritage. Ducks well depends on what you need. A drake and a few hens will give you a start and you will have little ones in no time. The eggs are great! They are great for baking too. My problem is im allergic to duck eggs. Too bad because i did live them. Sounds to me like you are on the right path. One thing i find true about dogs is mixed breeds are usually way better than pure, i have found the same to be true with the rest of the farm animals. ..


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I have six jersey giant hens, 1 giant rooster, Rhode Island Red hens and Americana hens in one run. Good mix. I'm trying the giant x rhode island red mix....reds lay alot (every day), and giants are more mellow chickens with bigger eggs. We'll see later one what kind of chicks those hatch out. My other run has an Americauna Rooster, and a complete mix of types of hens...all very big birds. 
Have you tried raising turkeys? Easy to raise. We do 5-10 every year. This year we ordered turkeys that do not have to be butchered in 6 months. Usually we get the double breasted, and they must be butchered early. So out of the 8 I just got in (4 varieties), I'm hoping for a pair or two. Turkey eggs around here are selling for a buck a piece. Chicken eggs at 4 bucks a dozen.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

AmishHeart said:


> I have six jersey giant hens, 1 giant rooster, Rhode Island Red hens and Americana hens in one run. Good mix. I'm trying the giant x rhode island red mix....reds lay alot (every day), and giants are more mellow chickens with bigger eggs. We'll see later one what kind of chicks those hatch out. My other run has an Americauna Rooster, and a complete mix of types of hens...all very big birds.
> Have you tried raising turkeys? Easy to raise. We do 5-10 every year. This year we ordered turkeys that do not have to be butchered in 6 months. Usually we get the double breasted, and they must be butchered early. So out of the 8 I just got in (4 varieties), I'm hoping for a pair or two. Turkey eggs around here are selling for a buck a piece. Chicken eggs at 4 bucks a dozen.


I don't sell my chocolate turkey eggs because i get 10 bucks a chick or 15 for a pullut. What did you get for turkey's?


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I haven't ever sold actual turkeys. We usually buy baby double breasted whites. Butcher them and eat them. They are too big to raise for eggs, and would die of a heart attack before then.
But I want to try raising the other varieties that don't have to be butchered unless you want to. We got in Royal Palm, Bronze, Blue Slate, and Bourbon Red. I'll see what ends up as a pair, and what ends up on our table.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

AmishHeart said:


> I haven't ever sold actual turkeys. We usually buy baby double breasted whites. Butcher them and eat them. They are too big to raise for eggs, and would die of a heart attack before then.
> But I want to try raising the other varieties that don't have to be butchered unless you want to. We got in Royal Palm, Bronze, Blue Slate, and Bourbon Red. I'll see what ends up as a pair, and what ends up on our table.


Nice. Palms tend to be on the small side but very beautiful, my wifes favorite. Slates are nice. I love the bourbons! The bronze is just a colored version of the broad breasted white (standard meat bird) and will probably end up on your table. But it will be great! The bourbons and palms make a really cool cross.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

One recommendation do not buy from a hatchery if you can help it! Always find a local breeder for birds. Hatchery birds can't even compare. And for turkey's i use the turkey god himself porterturkeys.com he is the all knowing wizard when ot comes to turkeys!


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

The turkeys we have had in the past were Narraganset. We are picking up 6-12 new Narraganset chicks locally tomorrow. The hens just hatched them out on a neighboring farm. The ducks we had were Khaki Campbells. They were egg laying machines.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

HardCider said:


> The turkeys we have had in the past were Narraganset. We are picking up 6-12 new Narraganset chicks locally tomorrow. The hens just hatched them out on a neighboring farm. The ducks we had were Khaki Campbells. They were egg laying machines.


Both of those are really good birds! My brother in law was raising Narragansets and selling them for 7.50 a pound in CT for thanksgiving birds. Not worth that in my book but a very tasty bird!


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> OK, putting them in the garden area, which will be fenced in anyway, and sticking a couple kiddie pools in there sounds pretty good. I figured on dual use...eating the ducks, and most of their eggs. Lot of people don't like duck eggs, but I do!
> 
> Question: How many ducks to START with?
> 
> ...


We have New Zealand whites and Californians and keep 2 bucks and usually have 4-5 does of each breed. You don't want to be stuck without a buck if you loose one. We freeze some and can the "extra" rabbits and use them for dogfood. Bo and Lilly are going to have to eat too.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> Jersey giants are feed hogs, just one thing to consider. They do taste good though. Me i raise Dominique, dorkings, and Indian game birds. I have a specific breeding program going as well. I also raise black spanish-slate crosses and chocolate turkey's. Point is don't be afraid to mix up the flock a little. Verities can produce a better out come. Goats you got that covered. Pygmies are great! Now as for pigs most of the heritage breeds do the same thing as tamworths. Some are even better at it than them. I have raised a lot of pigs and butchered a heck of alot more. My favorite pig to eat is any that is half old spot. I prefer a durock old spot cross. I would even put old spot as a better forager than a tam. Old spotis a lard pig witch is very very useful in the end of the world or if your like me useful every day. The key for any critter is to go heritage. Ducks well depends on what you need. A drake and a few hens will give you a start and you will have little ones in no time. The eggs are great! They are great for baking too. My problem is im allergic to duck eggs. Too bad because i did live them. Sounds to me like you are on the right path. One thing i find true about dogs is mixed breeds are usually way better than pure, i have found the same to be true with the rest of the farm animals. ..


OK, got you...mixing them up a bit might be better than just going with one breed. And yeah, most "curs" turn out to be pretty darn good dogs!!


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

tmttactical said:


> Well that bit of news sure eliminated any rabbit production at the TIN HAT HOUSE. Since the topic is farm animals, are goats able to graze on mesquite type landscapes? How well do goats handle extreme heat? I plan to keep the Bee house cool but a goat house would be a bit too much.


Some bee "experts" believe that hotter hives are better for the bees because they can handle the higher temperatures better than their parasitic friends. The discussion comes up in regards to light or dark hives and shade or direct sun. It seems that studies show direct sun, even in the south, is better than shade even if you have dark hives.

This winter was the warmest winter we have had since I have had hives and I tend to believe that created problems, I had a worse hive beetle problem this year coming out of winter than the years when winter had temperatures near or below zero.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

sgtusmc98 said:


> Some bee "experts" believe that hotter hives are better for the bees because they can handle the higher temperatures better than their parasitic friends. The discussion comes up in regards to light or dark hives and shade or direct sun. It seems that studies show direct sun, even in the south, is better than shade even if you have dark hives.
> 
> This winter was the warmest winter we have had since I have had hives and I tend to believe that created problems, I had a worse hive beetle problem this year coming out of winter than the years when winter had temperatures near or below zero.


Hmm that's some cool info! Never thought of that.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

prepping with animals and farming?. I don`t understand ,to me that`s normal , in a farm animals are as common as manure ,some animals for food some for protection and pure enjoyment .Canning and preserving your farming produce and meats is part of farming, it has been like that for thousand of years .The reason for farming are plenty ,money-business ,self-sustainment , hobby , some do it for health reasons like a stress reliever ,in a shtf situation the land will provide food if worked ,animals like human will need care also, priorities will have to be in place ,but like non-farm living, nothing will change .I prep for emergencies and that includes human and animal care here in the city ,and like normal everyday living we all need water, food ,shelter .My non-farming opinion.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

readytogo said:


> prepping with animals and farming?. I don`t understand ,to me that`s normal , in a farm animals are as common as manure ,some animals for food some for protection and pure enjoyment .Canning and preserving your farming produce and meats is part of farming, it has been like that for thousand of years .The reason for farming are plenty ,money-business ,self-sustainment , hobby , some do it for health reasons like a stress reliever ,in a shtf situation the land will provide food if worked ,animals like human will need care also, priorities will have to be in place ,but like non-farm living, nothing will change .I prep for emergencies and that includes human and animal care here in the city ,and like normal everyday living we all need water, food ,shelter .My non-farming opinion.


Yes but most have gotten away from that. Most can't grow a lawn nevermind feed themselves. The land will only provide if a person knows what to do with it.


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## Oomingmak (Feb 26, 2015)

RedBeard said:


> Yes but most have gotten away from that. Most can't grow a lawn nevermind feed themselves. The land will only provide if a person knows what to do with it.


Sadly......I have to completely agree. Many city dwellers are now multiple generations removed from being on a farm. They also tend to have a distorted view of being on a farm raising livestock and growing things to eat, in that they totally do not understand how much work it is and how much time is invested.
I know our friends from the city seem to have this idyllic view of how we live and tend to think we just "sit around on the porch drinking beer and watching the grass grow".

Where we live is actually considered to be quite "remote" and even "wilderness" by quite a few people that we know. Not to us, but my point is that it is all about perception and perception is greatly affected by a persons knowledge base or lack there of.

Actually raising all of the livestock and crops/vegetables/fruits that are needed to live on and properly prepare/store is a lot of work. It is a full time job so to speak.

My wife and I are about to get a "new" milk cow, as our old one just got too old and needed to be replaced. Just that one animal takes up a lot of time ever single day to look after properly, milk and then process the milk, separating the cream, and produce the byproducts such as butter, sour cream, cheese, ice-cream, etc.

That is just one daily "chore", now factor in poultry, cattle, sheep, goats, rabbits, hogs, turkeys or any number of other "farm animals" that you raise. 
Producing and putting up forage crops for those animals for the winter months. Growing your garden of vegetables and preserving/processing them. Putting up your grains to be used for livestock feed and personal consumption. Killing and butchering the livestock you will be eating and preparing and marketing the rest of your livestock produced to be sold.

Lets not forget general upkeep around the farm and building new projects such as fencing, out buildings and home improvements. And for those of us that live in an environment with cold winters, there are the many cords of firewood to be cut.

Every year we see people who move into the area we live in with stars in their eyes. They buy an acreage or small farm with the intention of "going back to the land", but arrive ill prepared for how much work is involved and lack the knowledge base to handle all of the things that are taken for granted by urbanites. You need to know have a working knowledge and the tools to be able to handle most welding, mechanical repair, carpentry, plumbing, electrical and a myriad of other things that crop up on a daily basis.

The vast majority of these back to the land people last a couple of years at best, before selling out and going back to the big city.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

That's the old hitting the nail right on the head! I have had people answer the question of " whete do you think yourfood comes from" with "the supermarket". I just walk away and think of the shirt my wife got me, it says " im not antisocial i just rather be on my farm than talking to idiots".
It's nice to meet you because most think im full of crap when i say all the thinks i can build or fix, and if they do believe me they think jack of all trades master of none. That pisses me right off! Im actually a master of most. They look down on us and think "dumb farmer" when in fact we are smarter than them in many ways. I keep trying to say also for those that don't farm now and plan to when the shtf that they need to start right now! It's not as simple as get a few animals and your a farm. There is a ton to learn so start now and if the shtf you will already be a rolling farm. Not to be a prick but i have seen those city people you speak of that buy the old farm next door and they try to farm with their bank role, well needless to say i love watching yuppies fale.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> That's the old hitting the nail right on the head! I have had people answer the question of " whete do you think yourfood comes from" with "the supermarket". I just walk away and think of the shirt my wife got me, it says " im not antisocial i just rather be on my farm than talking to idiots". It's nice to meet you because most think im full of crap when i say all the thinks i can build or fix, and if they do believe me they think jack of all trades master of none. That pisses me right off! Im actually a master of most. They look down on us and think "dumb farmer" when in fact we are smarter than them in many ways. I keep trying to say also for those that don't farm now and plan to when the shtf that they need to start right now! It's not as simple as get a few animals and your a farm. There is a ton to learn so start now and if the shtf you will already be a rolling farm. Not to be a prick but i have seen those city people you speak of that buy the old farm next door and they try to farm with their bank role, well needless to say i love watching yuppies fale.


Anyone, *ANYONE,* who thinks a farmer is *dumb,* has never:
A. Lived on a farm.
B. Exercised the few brain cells they may have, to examine what is actually required to MANAGE a farm.
C. Talked to a farmer for any length of time, and then realized "this guy/gal knows MORE about nearly EVERYTHING from A-Z that most people EVER WILL!!"

If there's one thing a farmer ISN'T......it's DUMB!!! :gaah: 
:2thumb: :beercheer:


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

What about exfarm kids


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Flight1630 said:


> What about exfarm kids


Depends on the kid, how much farm work they actually did. I know some that could tell you what a cow looks like and eats and that's about it. They didn't want to be on a farm and didn't care to learn.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> Depends on the kid, how much farm work they actually did. I know some that could tell you what a cow looks like and eats and that's about it. They didn't want to be on a farm and didn't care to learn.


True. We did grain (about 960 acres) and some cattle.so i had to work.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Farm kids! Haha i love it when my 4 year old daughter explains to people where bacon comes from. The look on their face is priceless.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Anyone, *ANYONE,* who thinks a farmer is *dumb,* has never:
> A. Lived on a farm.
> B. Exercised the few brain cells they may have, to examine what is actually required to MANAGE a farm.
> C. Talked to a farmer for any length of time, and then realized "this guy/gal knows MORE about nearly EVERYTHING from A-Z that most people EVER WILL!!"
> ...


If only more realized this..


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

Had dinner with family last night, and one of their grown daughters works at the small meat place in town. They process meat there and rent freezer space to the Amish. She said someone new brought in a pig that they raise, their first, and when she asked what cuts they would like, they said they wanted it all in bacon.

My great grandpa and grandpa were some of the firsts in this farming community, and they did not go beyond 3rd and 5th grade in school. They were not dumb men.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

AmishHeart said:


> Had dinner with family last night, and one of their grown daughters works at the small meat place in town. They process meat there and rent freezer space to the Amish. She said someone new brought in a pig that they raise, their first, and when she asked what cuts they would like, they said they wanted it all in bacon.
> 
> My great grandpa and grandpa were some of the firsts in this farming community, and they did not go beyond 3rd and 5th grade in school. They were not dumb men.


hahaha! All in bacon. Wow


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

AmishHeart said:


> Had dinner with family last night, and one of their grown daughters works at the small meat place in town. They process meat there and rent freezer space to the Amish. She said someone new brought in a pig that they raise, their first, and when she asked what cuts they would like, they said they wanted it all in bacon.
> 
> My great grandpa and grandpa were some of the firsts in this farming community, and they did not go beyond 3rd and 5th grade in school. They were not dumb men.


In regards to not going beyond 3rd or 5th grade, my comments by no means are meant to be an insult towards them, one of the best men I ever knew dropped out of 8th grade born in 1913. I do however feel it's hard in this day and age to not go through more schooling in some ways but the schools don't teach practical information either. These days there is so much to be learned! Everyone should have some decent computer skills and a general understanding of the world since we are a world economy but so much is lost when it comes to actually doing real things that a lot of the old timers had.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

sgtusmc98 said:


> In regards to not going beyond 3rd or 5th grade, my comments by no means are meant to be an insult towards them, one of the best men I ever knew dropped out of 8th grade born in 1913. I do however feel it's hard in this day and age to not go through more schooling in some ways but the schools don't teach practical information either. These days there is so much to be learned! Everyone should have some decent computer skills and a general understanding of the world since we are a world economy but so much is lost when it comes to actually doing real things that a lot of the old timers had.


That's a good point, a lot of information has been lost. Its really pretty sad. I take any chance i get to pick old timers brains. They are a wealth of information. Im very anti-religious but my dad always said god gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason and that to do twice the listening and less talking. Always rang in my head, would not be where i am today if it wasn't for that advice. I learned years ago how to plant fall crops and cover them with hay. That gives me fresh veggies all winter long. Simple little trick that quite a few don't know, old timer clued me in. It's pretty funny digging through 2 feet of snow and pulling out fresh carrots. More fun when people think im full of poop, then i bet them and dig up fresh veggies and win the bet. Many years ago that would have been common sense. Often i sit back and think even with all the new high tech things we have we are actually becoming less intelligent.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

sgtusmc98 said:


> In regards to not going beyond 3rd or 5th grade, my comments by no means are meant to be an insult towards them, one of the best men I ever knew dropped out of 8th grade born in 1913. I do however feel it's hard in this day and age to not go through more schooling in some ways but the schools don't teach practical information either. These days there is so much to be learned! Everyone should have some decent computer skills and a general understanding of the world since we are a world economy but so much is lost when it comes to actually doing real things that a lot of the old timers had.


Perhaps what we need is an entirely "new" educational system, that is geared to teaching "real world subjects," while leaving all the social, moral, political, and religious instruction to the parents, and/or their church, if they are churchgoers. "Practical skills/knowledge" instruction is severely lacking in our current system, with the exceptions of math, hard science, and computer courses. The "soft sciences," civics, social studies, government, political science, and the like are being taught in such a biased, Liberal, fashion, as to be worthless. We are graduating people from COLLEGE that can't even spell their own names (literally), and can't solve simple problems in logic. (Truck won't fit under bridge....solution? Correct answer is to "plan the route ahead of time." That sort of thing.) Our present educational system is a joke...maybe it's time to just flat bring in a "new system" entirely? :scratch


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Part of the problem with education is the system we have formed since the industrial revolution. In many places land is inexpensive or you just use a piece of land but here it isn't that way. Generally speaking you have to get a job working for someone to by your piece of land (house), to have the job you need a car which means you have to work more. Going be normal debt to income ratios your paying for your home for 30 years with car payments most of that time. By the time you make enough to get the house and car the last thing you want to do is come home to work the farm. In the end it becomes a cycle of working for someone to pay for what you used to do yourself but don't have time for because your paying for your home and a means to get to work. The best "do it yourself" education would come from parents but they are working too much to pay for the "necessities" and the entertainment that is needed with the lack of satisfaction that comes with doing some menial task that you never see the benefit of and people don't understand why our mental health is so low.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Perhaps what we need is an entirely "new" educational system, that is geared to teaching "real world subjects," while leaving all the social, moral, political, and religious instruction to the parents, and/or their church, if they are churchgoers. "Practical skills/knowledge" instruction is severely lacking in our current system, with the exceptions of math, hard science, and computer courses. The "soft sciences," civics, social studies, government, political science, and the like are being taught in such a biased, Liberal, fashion, as to be worthless. We are graduating people from COLLEGE that can't even spell their own names (literally), and can't solve simple problems in logic. (Truck won't fit under bridge....solution? Correct answer is to "plan the route ahead of time." That sort of thing.) Our present educational system is a joke...maybe it's time to just flat bring in a "new system" entirely? :scratch


I can't agree with you more if i wanted to! The best possible thing would be for the entire public system to close. This would pop up more private schools and we as parents would have a choice and could send our kidsto schools more geared towards them. But it will never happen because most parents live letting the socialist raise their kids. Im lucky my wife was a teacher and she will be home schooling our kids. They will have all the book smarts they need along with real world hands on training. Plus i dont sugar coat, my 4 year old is more together than most college grads and she's a nut case!


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

random pics around our flatland property: Internet timing out on upload....grrr.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

sgtusmc98 said:


> Part of the problem with education is the system we have formed since the industrial revolution. In many places land is inexpensive or you just use a piece of land but here it isn't that way. Generally speaking you have to get a job working for someone to by your piece of land (house), to have the job you need a car which means you have to work more. Going be normal debt to income ratios your paying for your home for 30 years with car payments most of that time. By the time you make enough to get the house and car the last thing you want to do is come home to work the farm. In the end it becomes a cycle of working for someone to pay for what you used to do yourself but don't have time for because your paying for your home and a means to get to work. The best "do it yourself" education would come from parents but they are working too much to pay for the "necessities" and the entertainment that is needed with the lack of satisfaction that comes with doing some menial task that you never see the benefit of and people don't understand why our mental health is so low.


Ya we are completely on the same page! We all could pick one thing and grow it and no one would go hungry and food would be basically free. But the capitalist would never go for it.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

RedBeard said:


> But it will never happen because most parents live letting the socialist raise their kids.
> 
> Plus i dont sugar coat, my 4 year old is more together than most college grads and she's a nut case!


Unfortunately, you are correct, schools have become surrogate "parents."

Your 4-year-old is probably SMARTER than most "Liberal college grads." A degree in "finger painting" doesn't qualify one for much in the real world!


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Unfortunately, you are correct, schools have become surrogate "parents."
> 
> Your 4-year-old is probably SMARTER than most "Liberal college grads." A degree in "finger painting" doesn't qualify one for much in the real world!


Honestly im pretty sure she is smarter than me!


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

RedBeard said:


> Ya we are completely on the same page! We all could pick one thing and grow it and no one would go hungry and food would be basically free. But the capitalist would never go for it.


It wouldn't work. To many people would not grow anything or do enough to say "Well, I tried" and still expect to get some. That's a socialist idea and it never works.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> It wouldn't work. To many people would not grow anything or do enough to say "Well, I tried" and still expect to get some. That's a socialist idea and it never works.


Well it works with all my friends. But your right the lazy will be lazy. But we don't give it away, we trade. With what I'm talking about if a person is a bump on a log they don't eat. I don't believe anything is free. It may not cost you American dollars but it doesn't mean that it doesn't cost you.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

RedBeard said:


> Well it works with all my friends. But your right the lazy will be lazy. But we don't give it away, we trade. With what I'm talking about if a person is a bump on a log they don't eat. I don't believe anything is free. It may not cost you American dollars but it doesn't mean that it doesn't cost you.


It works small scale but would never work large scale. To many lazy people with the "it's not fair" mentality that would try to get the gov to "distribute it fairly".


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> It works small scale but would never work large scale. To many lazy people with the "it's not fair" mentality that would try to get the gov to "distribute it fairly".


It does work on large scale. Our current system is exactly how you describe mine. Except with mine people would at least know what is in the food they are eating and would be eating better food. I do know what you are saying though  i say keep uncle sam out of it.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

RedBeard said:


> It does work on large scale. Our current system is exactly how you describe mine. Except with mine people would at least know what is in the food they are eating and would be eating better food. I do know what you are saying though  i say keep uncle sam out of it.


 Where does it work large scale?


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

You mean I can't call myself a small town, dumb @$$ country boy anymore?


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> Where does it work large scale?


Where? It is the same as our current system except the government runs it. The only difference is we work our balls off while they hand crap out free to those who don't want to work. At least with my system you don't contribute you dont eat.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

HardCider said:


> You mean I can't call myself a small town, dumb @$$ country boy anymore?


Haha sure you can! I know I've been called that before.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I greatly prefer to be underestimated


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