# Clean hand when the SHTF !



## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

Having three small children and a "germaphobe" for a wife I include hand sanitizer in my regular preps . I currently have 10 family size bottles and approx 25 pocket size bottles . I can't remember reading a thread about hand sanitizer . When the SHTF disease from poor hygiene could kill more of us than the hungry hordes ever could . I also believe that sanitizer could be used as an aide in fire starting ( though I don't that to be a fact ). Anybody else use hand sanitizer as a prep item ? 

FNG


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I have a full case of small bottles, thanks in large part to the N1H1 scare (got it for free). I think it will come in very handy if the SHTF.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I have several small bottles of hand sanitizer, but probably not enough. My X was a public school teacher, the first 3 years we were together I got everything after that I quit getting sick and today I have decided that I am super immune to germs.:factor10:


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

It will also work against you. You have to get sick to become immune. In my job I see some of the nastiest fu...um people around. They don't get sick and seem to live forever or until they get high blood pressure, diabetes or some disease related to alcohol consumption. 
I'm not saying not to try and stay clean. That is common sense. But...Trying to stay sanitized all the time will drive you and those around you nuts. What happens when you run out of sanitizer? I could only imagine being in a true world changing event with a germaphobe with no way to wash or sanitize.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

We have a substantial stash but hand washing is preferred. Be sure to store plenty of lotion, that stuff will dry your skin out quickly. They also make a sanitizing hand lotion.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm with Cliff on this one. The sanitizers say; "kills 99% of germs." What about the other 1%. :dunno: 

I've heard people say; "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger." I would think it works the same way in the germ world. So no, no hand sanitizer in our med-tote.


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## RoadRash (Sep 29, 2010)

I have been buying peroxide as I can water down if needed and mist or soak into clothes, we have anexcess of bleach as well.I have 4 of the bigger hand sanitizers that should last awhile ....hopefully


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

*Hand sanitizer helps in fire starting.*

The gelled alcohol works realy well to hols a flame or catch sparks, as to the over zelous use of it. clean freaks and germophobes are the one who are always sick, the immune system need to practice to stay in shape.


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## ComputerGuy (Dec 10, 2010)

We have hand sanitizers as well. Sanitation will be rule #1 when things go wrong. This is to circumvent disease since doctors will be hard to find.


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## mckbrew (Nov 5, 2012)

I like hand sanitizer. It is a double edged sword. 

I can remember growing up, playing outside all day long chucking dried horse turds at each other and then snacking on food. Never got sick much. Now we have disease resistant bacteria and the like. 

I think sanitation is good, but maybe we have oversanitized.


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## smurf58 (Jul 8, 2012)

Washing hands is the number one disease prevention that is taught for hospital employees. Having a healthy immune system is better which you can have by eating non process (or fast) foods. Lots of soap for preps and eat right.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

I have quite a bit of hand sanitizer. At least 98% of its usage is for fires. If you fill a tuna can about 1/2 full and light it, you'll have a nice fire for about 20 minutes (for cooking or lighting). It's also a nice fire starter.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

No hand sanitizer here. I have peroxide if I need it, alcohol as well. We get dirty here, really dirty, soap and water before meals and at the end of the day is all we use. I will sanitize food surfaces before and after a butchering day and on cheese making days but other times it's a spray of vinegar and a wipe down is good enough. I don't like the idea of a sterile enviroment, nothing natural about that. 
We stay away from crowds but not so much that we don't cultivate a healthy immune system.


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## emilnon (May 8, 2012)

Wellrounded said:


> No hand sanitizer here. I have peroxide if I need it, alcohol as well. We get dirty here, really dirty, soap and water before meals and at the end of the day is all we use. I will sanitize food surfaces before and after a butchering day and on cheese making days but other times it's a spray of vinegar and a wipe down is good enough. I don't like the idea of a sterile enviroment, nothing natural about that.
> We stay away from crowds but not so much that we don't cultivate a healthy immune system.


I agree! We wash our hands too much, but it IS important at times. Gotta build up the immunities, but also want to avoid getting seriously ill.


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## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

If you're a queasy-type person, be warned before you read this. I found it fascinating, though. In cultures where people often have parasites, allergies are rare. In the germaphobic west, allergies abound...

http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/18/doctor-infects-himself-with-parasites-for-health-experiment/

http://news.discovery.com/human/parasites-leeches-maggots-worms-medicine.html


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

emilysometimes said:


> If you're a queasy-type person, be warned before you read this. I found it fascinating, though. In cultures where people often have parasites, allergies are rare. In the germaphobic west, allergies abound...
> 
> http://healthland.time.com/2012/04/18/doctor-infects-himself-with-parasites-for-health-experiment/
> 
> http://news.discovery.com/human/parasites-leeches-maggots-worms-medicine.html


Whoa! I wont be swallowing leeches! I have seen using magots on severe wounds that wont heal.
That hookworm study is interesting, and that page set a record for when Im paying attention-19 trackers on that one page alone.

Not a fan of hand sanitizer, and as others have brought up, what happens when you run out?
The ex girl used to laugh at me for overcleaning the dishes and counters, etc. (I have always been willing to clean up if I get fed)
My girl now demands that everything be run through the dishwasher to get sanitized.
I agree that overcleaning and overemphasis on germs lead to a weakened immune system.


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## alwaysready (May 16, 2012)

I think you would get better bang for your buck if you went with good ole fashion soap and peroxide. With regular hygene healthy people should be okay.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I would use it after shaking someones hand PSHTF. Maybe before doing anything invasive medically if no gloves available, after washing hands.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Vinegar is also a great sanitizer and you can use it in cooking. You can also make more when needed.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

We have hand sanitizer in our preps but that is because we got BOXES and CASES of it at our baby shower before Roo was born. We started using it ALL the time but then my DH got very sick and I packed it all away for fire fuel. 

I'm the one in the family who doesn't really get sick until this last weather shift. I am still going through a box of tissues a week. DH and Roo had the sniffles for a couple days but are 100% fine now.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I don't think hand sanitizers are necessary for most people. It's a relatively recent thing for people who are just phobic about germs in ways that don't make much sense. I noticed that once I start exercising regularly that I got sick less often.


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## mrcuddles (Oct 9, 2012)

Yeah I thought about hand sanitizer to but I think to much use can hurt you I dont remember wear I heared that or use the hand cleaning packets for your hands or alcohol prep pads might work I probably wouldnt go for anti bac soap unless I have the water to wash my hands with rather save it


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## kyhoti (Nov 16, 2008)

We have some stored, but mostly for fire-starter. The stuff with triclosan in it is used for when we can't wash our hands (diaper changes at the soccer field etc). In microbiology lab, we tested the gelled alcohol; it didn't stop anything. All cultured germs grew after 24 hours. It did slow the growth compared to an untreated control though.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*If water becomes invaluable...*

Today as I am rearranging my preps, and moving some water jugs, I was thinking about how when we were kids and working and playing outside a lot, we washed our hands a lot. If water becomes a real issue at some point in time, I would like to have some hand sanitizer as an alternative. I don't use it, but have some small bottles in my BOBs. A couple of large bottles with pumps could sure go a long way for disease reduction or prevention.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I love things that have dual purposes, yes, I'm easily amused. . I use hand sanitizer for cleaning hard surfaces. If you use enough of it, it will get the dirt off. I haven't tried to use it with fire yet but I would think you could. I have hand sanitizer at every sink in the house, on all of our bags, & in every vehicle. I'm a nurse & use quite a bit of it at work, to protect the patients not me. Outside of work, I don't use it that much. I get a cold once every 4-5 years, have only had the flu once & I come into contact with some pretty serious germs on a daily basis. 

In a SHTF situation, our contact with others will likely be a lot less than it is now & thus the opportunity to come into contact with contagions will be less.


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## Enchant18 (Feb 21, 2012)

I keep some on hand for using when dealing with small wounds. Don't want bacteria from my hands entering broken skin. Mostly I use it to clean also. Puts a nice shine on the faucet...


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## cazetofamo (Mar 18, 2012)

Does anyone have a recipe for home mase hand sanatizer and or soap?


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

cazetofamo said:


> Does anyone have a recipe for home mase hand sanatizer and or soap?


Most I've made are roughly 3 parts aloe vera gel and 1 part rubbing alcohol. You can add herbs (I sometimes add a few drops of an herbal alcohol tincture) or essential oils if you choose. I'd be interested in hearing other variations.


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## cazetofamo (Mar 18, 2012)

Lake Windsong said:


> Most I've made are roughly 3 parts aloe vera gel and 1 part rubbing alcohol. You can add herbs (I sometimes add a few drops of an herbal alcohol tincture) or essential oils if you choose. I'd be interested in hearing other variations.


Sounds great! When ever my aloe comes back up in the spring, imma have to try this. 
Btw, my favorite hand sanitizer of all time is a type one of my friends caries. Its chocolate chip cookie scented. We call it canibalism because it makes you almost want to eat your hands, it smells so good!


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## Enchant18 (Feb 21, 2012)

Lake Windsong said:


> Most I've made are roughly 3 parts aloe vera gel and 1 part rubbing alcohol. You can add herbs (I sometimes add a few drops of an herbal alcohol tincture) or essential oils if you choose. I'd be interested in hearing other variations.


Thank you for that recipe. I imagine it takes awhile and a lot of aloe to harvest enough for a decent bottle. How long does it last? Other than applying to burns I've never used it before.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

cazetofamo said:


> Btw, my favorite hand sanitizer of all time is a type one of my friends caries. Its chocolate chip cookie scented. We call it canibalism because it makes you almost want to eat your hands, it smells so good!


Bath & Body Works makes a pumpkin cupcake one that I just love! Hard to believe it's not edible!


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Enchant18 said:


> Thank you for that recipe. I imagine it takes awhile and a lot of aloe to harvest enough for a decent bottle. How long does it last? Other than applying to burns I've never used it before.


I only make enough at a time for a little tin or jar to carry around so I have no idea about shelf life, sorry. I like experimenting with herbal creams and oils, but I only make very small batches because I like to change out the herbs I use depending on my mood or the season.


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## Enchant18 (Feb 21, 2012)

Lake Windsong said:


> I only make enough at a time for a little tin or jar to carry around so I have no idea about shelf life, sorry. I like experimenting with herbal creams and oils, but I only make very small batches because I like to change out the herbs I use depending on my mood or the season.


This recipe is going in The Binder, thank you.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Got hand sanitiser, soap an peroxide as well as alcohol.

I keep some hand santiser at work just fer "those people" where ya know ya don't wan't no part what they got goin on. I keep clean, but ya gotta be exposed ta some stuff ta stay healthy.

Overuse be why we gettin super bugs an cryptonite be danged hard ta come by!

We got fellers at work what be clean freaks, they be the ones what er always gone sick.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Just thought I would throw my $0.02 in on the alcohol based sanitizer. The percentage of alcohol makes a big difference in the effectiveness and duration of time the alcohol must be applied. For germ killing purposes 40% is about the lowest I would recommend, and at this concentration you want to use it fairly liberally if you actually believe you have come into contact with something nasty. Concentrations of 50-75% are more commonly recommended for killing 99.9%+ bacteria.
Concentrations of 90% really kill everything including viruses with a few exceptions and even those will be damaged with time or can be physically removed by the alcohol.

I get isopropyl by the gallon but it does have an unpleasant odour, if you can handle the price something like Everclear (95%) imo is the ultimate multipurpose item in a kit. Fuel, medicine, sanitizer for skin and tools etc. There may be legal issues for carrying non-denatured alcohol in your area:dunno:

I haven't found a great (imo) gel solution that I would completely recommend yet but the liquid form works directly or applied with a spray bottle (need one that can handle alcohol).

While there is definitely something to the hygiene hypothesis others mentioned (too sterile=not good) there are somethings better sanitized and alcohol is a good way to get it done. There is no evidence or reason to believe alcohol could result in "superbugs" and in fact it is a good way to kill them.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

kyhoti said:


> We have some stored, but mostly for fire-starter. The stuff with triclosan in it is used for when we can't wash our hands (diaper changes at the soccer field etc). In microbiology lab, we tested the gelled alcohol; it didn't stop anything. All cultured germs grew after 24 hours. It did slow the growth compared to an untreated control though.


Triclosan is currently under investigation for links to hormone disruption, hepatotoxicity, and hastening antibacterial resistance (in a way different than antibiotic overuse). That's one of the reason that you will find toothpaste, soaps, and hand sanitizers containing it sold off cheap at the dollar stores. Many are avoiding it. Hospitals are moving to other means as well.

It does kill more aggressively than gelled ethanol but its because of penetration, not than ethanol lacks ability. It's dependent on contact time as the main factor. Ethanol needs to remain on the bacterial surfaces to disrupt the cell membrane. Triclosan remains well after the person feels they have rubbed it on, where as ethanol is quick to evaporate.

You don't need to kill 99.99% of bacteria, you only want to remove transient non flora and leave the S.epidermidis and friends intact to protect from pathogenic colonization. A lot of bacteria have high infectious doses(ID). A simple wash with plain soap, lowers doses well under ID levels and within minutes your natural flora has crowded out that bacteria because its much better suited to growing on you.

Those bacteria that have low ID are Campylobacter jejun , Shigella, C.parvum, Escherichia coli O157:H7, and Entamoeba coli - its not just the low numbers needed to cause sickness its the toxins then produce that make them mean pathogens. For the most part though, they are easily killed outside the body.

As for me, I used plain soap and water when I can, alcohol based sanitizers when less convenient (but hands are not visibly soiled), and a chlorhexidine scrub when I have high risk contamination or am around MRSA. I higly recommend the disposable presurgical scrub brushes presoaked with chlorhexidine or PCMX for certain situations. They have some in handy with little kids playing around poop. They safely and easily clean under little nails that have touched foulness. And they are cheap!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Thanks for the warning on Triclosan, I wasn't even aware of it or I forgot, that happens a lot:dunno: Either way something to look out for.

For an alternative, some sanitizers have Benzalkonium chloride in them, along with the alcohol. We have some of the foaming variety in little camping bottles. It does work really well when I looked up the effectiveness but unlike alcohol I don't feel comfortable using it on a regular basis. It is a chemical and it stays on your skin, I have tasted it hours later . It also might cause some resistance (unlike alcohol) but on occasions where you need something stronger it is an option.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Rub your hands with animal fat and rinse in hot water. Then pour vinegar on hands. No need for all the chemicals. Ever notice your hands after making burgers?

Or you can wipe them on your pants and eat your sandwich.


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## Sybil6 (Jan 28, 2013)

Really all you need to do is wash off blood, guts, feces, urine, and salvia before you eat to touch your face. Most anything else will strengthen you. I've put hand sanitizer in my bag but not a lot. It'll just weaken your immune system. But I don't wanna share food with somebody who hasn't washed their hands after wiping their butt!!


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## carnut1100 (Oct 9, 2008)

I drive a school bus full of little germ factories....I use straight methylated spirits (95% ethanol) to wet down all handrails and wash My hands especially in winter. 
Otherwise I'm not too worried.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

cowboyhermit said:


> I get isopropyl by the gallon
> 
> 
> > Where? I find the typical alcohol bottles at the drug store, grocery and a double pack of them at Sams and Costco. Where can you find it by the gallon?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> cowboyhermit said:
> 
> 
> > I get isopropyl by the gallon
> ...


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