# Gold & Silver down ...time to buy?



## db2469

Yikes! Down big time....some manipulation there no doubt! I'm SO tempted and think I'll bite...hate to pay the premiums though..


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## cqp33

right now i believe silver is going down due to smaller industrial demand. Also it looks like Cyprus may be selling some gold so that will affect the entire PM market in the near term. I have decided to sit out of PM's and concentrate on items that will help during SHTF. Yes all the PM's I have will be great post SHTF but you have to make it there first IMHO! If silver drops below $20, I may get back in the market. Originally I always said below $28 but the way it is falling ($25.99 right now over a $1 fall today alone), it will come back and spike quickly though so I am watching but mainly from the sidelines! Gotta get my preps in order first!


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## FrankW

Cyprus has already sold he Gold.
I do think we are nearing the floor.
Unless it spikes back up I am putting half this months paycheck into Silver tomorrow with JM bullion ( site sponsors) 
They still seem cheaper than others.

Even tho....... I will carefully watch what their coin prices are. ....the coin price lags by a couple hours after the spot falls.
I will try to stay under $3 over spot for coins even for silver eagles. (3.31 volume price right now on JMB)
If I cant get Eagles for 3 dollars over spot I will go for the Silver maple leaf.
That's at 2.6 over spot volume price right now.
And will likely be just as valuable as post SHTF currency as the Eagle.
(But the resale on the Eagle is slightly better in non crisis time...)


Since I cant afford the 500 coin minimum to get volume price my actual price will be higher but I use the volume price as a guide to decide to buy or not
I'll know more for sure by tomorrow.

PS: I am not doing this for future profit taking. Profit taking is very difficult since you take a haircut on both the buy and the sell so its difficult to consistently make a profit as a small investor in precious metals.
I do it mostly because I am trying to build a SHTF resource on the (relatively) cheap not for future profit taking


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## db2469

BlueZ...I agree with your PS, I will not sell gold or silver until the dollar collapses and if by some miracle the collapse is certain NOT to happen then I will do what's practical...


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## FrankW

Yes.

If for example silver would rise to the level that even small investors like us *could* make a significant profit from reselling,.. say 38 or even 40 dollars spot (which is possible in next few yrs IMO).. even *then* I wouldnt sell, because it would be one of the indicators that the collapse of our currency might be in progress.

In other words the exact situation I got the silver for in the first place.


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## zombieresponder

You're not going to make money with gold, and you're extremely unlikely to make any money from silver. Both maintain fairly consistent values/purchasing power. That is to say, the price of gold is directly related to the inflation of fiat currency, and an ounce(or quarter/half/whatever) of gold will buy today the same goods as it would have fifty years ago.

Ownership of precious metals protects your wealth from devaluation through inflation.


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## FrankW

Since the precious metal markets will be closed until Monday we now have a decsion to make.

On Monday will the drop in Silver prices have spooked more Silver holders ot sell and drop another 50 cents of the ounce?
Or have enough people over the weekend seen a buying opportunity at these low prices and the market will spike back a percent.

So if a slice turns into a panic ( which it shouldnt with a physical asset but u never know) then Monday will be even better buying.
or will it recover a bit ....then the best buying from JMbullion and such is now over the weekend.... as they take orders for their merchandise all weekend at the price fixed at close of market today.

decsions descsions.

I think it will rally a bit. not a lot mind you, but enough that the getting wont be just quite as good as it is now.

Of course I could be wrong and Silver could drop another 80 cents on Monday.

but that would be a truly unprecedented slide.


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## invision

I think I will make a hold on buying... Above is a post that Cyprus has already sold their gold... Well, I am not sure, yesterday on Reuters I saw were both Italy and Cyprus were about to (not have sold yet) sell their gold. If today was the day a Billion Oz hit the market that explains the huge gold price drop... In addition to the Thursday statements from the 2 banks going bearish on Gold... Otherwise, Someone is playing with the PMs market IMO.

IF PMs are going down due to 1- false belief in markets and strength of USD 2 - the 2 banks going bearish or 3 - a sudden flood of gold from Italy and Cyprus... then I think the trend is going to go down for the next 6 months... And we could actually break into $13 hundreds for gold, and around $18-20 for silver...

However, Once QE3 comes to an end (supposedly will start to wind down 3rd quarter and end before 2014), the markets will first stall and then do the two step down the gutter dance, we will see gold and silver shoot back up...

Here is the article on Goldman Sachs and another one sent out bearish statements on the PM market saying $13xx by 2014... http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2013/04/10/goldman-sachs-lowers-gold-forecast-for-2013-2014/

So, I am going to actually try to pass this month's buy hoping to see that downward trend continue a little more...so I can buy more... For me I think I will try to see if silver can hit $22 by next month and $1420 for gold...

As USD actually does collapse, PMs will shoot up, IMO, the more that I can take advantage of lower cost means more opportunity to survive post-SHTF and rebuild because I will have more...

Just think of all those eBay sellers taking a potential bath if they bought at say $1550 right now... Eek.


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## Tweto

The commodity traders have been saying for the past year that gold has a strong support floor at $1500. If gold goes below $1500 then the next support floor is $1250. These are automatic buy signals that buy when $1500 is hit. There is no human pushing the button. Over this weekend the people that own these buys will make the decision weather to continue selling or to buy Monday. Only time will tell!

COMEX last week had record and unprecedented withdrawals of physical gold. My local dealer believes that the owners of the gold were worried that there was not enough gold stored to cover all the depositors. This would be the same as a run on the banks except this is gold.

I don't know what will happen next week. If the people selling gold are countries selling physical gold then this could make other countries panic and sell more (next stop $1250). If the sellers are individuals just selling the ETF then I expect the stock markets to go up next week starting Wednesday (2 days to settle the deals to make the cash available to trade).

On a side note, my local dealers are telling me that just in the last few months people have been buying large dollar amounts of silver. Finding silver locally has become harder and harder. I'm hearing the same stories, that one guy will come in and just say, I will buy all the silver you have (sometimes at $10,000-$30,000 at a pop).


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## FrankW

Hmmm.. 

So now I am much less certain to buy or not today.


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## UncleJoe

http://thedailygold.com/silver-is-following-its-1970s-pattern/

Here is an interesting chart I came across. Silver's rise in the 70's compared to it's rise now.


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## k0xxx

I just purchased another twenty ounces of silver. I will continue to do so with each drop of at least $1. Not much in the big scheme of things, but it adds up.


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## Immolatus

I think I may have to scrounge up some cash to buy today. I dont really plan on selling well, anytime soon, so any time theres a sale, I'm in.
I guess the crushing that gold took yesterday makes sense in the context of Cyprus, especially if one believes the ptb want the price lower. I cant imagine this leads to panic selling by CB's, I would assume this would make China, Russia etc 'back up the truck'.


> That is to say, the price of gold is directly related to the inflation of fiat currency, and an ounce(or quarter/half/whatever) of gold will buy today the same goods as it would have fifty years ago.


Which is pretty much the point of buying. The USD 'price' is almost totally irrelevant imo. I think I'll prolly switch to Maples, but I did snag some of those Aussie 'year of the snake' ones a few weeks ago.


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## db2469

Wow...gold and silver down big again...I held off buying Friday but couldn't resist today!


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## BillS

That reminds me of this article from last December:

http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/52005

The latest from "DHS Insider"

DH: How soon do you see things taking place?

RB: They already are in motion. If you're looking for a date I can't tell you. Remember, the objectives are the same, but plans, well, they adapt. They exploit. Watch how this fiscal cliff thing plays out. This is the run-up to the next big economic event.

I can't give you a date. I can tell you to watch things this spring. Start with the inauguration and go from there. *Watch the metals, when they dip. It will be a good indication that things are about to happen.* I got that little tidbit from my friend at [REDACTED].


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## machinist

*Paul Craig Robeerts Nailed It*

faithmarie posted this video explaining PM prices here: http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f4/u-s-dollar-collapse-accelerating-17073/index12.html

Video:





As Roberts says, the dollar is in real trouble, so TPTB are pulling out all the stops to prop it up. 
-Told Japan to print Yen. 
-Convinced the ECB to print Euros, over objections by Germany. 
-Hammering down PM prices with naked short sales and info "leaks" to banks and hedge funds.

All the above to make the dollar look better by comparison, because:
The BRIC's are starting an end run around the dollar for international trade.
-China makes swap line with France: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...tab-dollar-launches-currency-swap-line-france
-Australia agreed to trade with China using their own currencies. 
-BRIC's have agreements to trade with their own currencies.

As more countries avoid it, the dollar will sink in value, first relative to other paper currencies, but more importantly, relative to real assets, so cost of real goods will go up dramatically, IMHO.

I wish I knew what was next, but don't know any more than the next person. My guess is, the dollar will stay up for at least a short while yet, but they can't keep it propped forever. When it goes down, it will probably be a panic, worldwide. If so, then PM's may be grabbed by TPTB to back a "new dollar"? Your guess is as good as mine. The whole world has never been this connected, or this broke, before.

Anyway, it is time to trade that paper stuff for something useful, IMHO.


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## FrankW

I just made a major order a few minutes ago.
the biggest I've made yet.

I am glad I waited out the weekend after I talked to guys here and noticed that the lowest of the day on Friday was the last minute of the market.

Right after i ordered spot dropped 12 cents... but its been up and down between 23.30 and 23.50 all morning now.

I just pulled the trigger at 23.38 spot.

Also one thing i changed was I went with Golden State Mint Round this time.
I usually preferred coins due to presumably greater acceptance SHTF BUT the GSM 1 oz rounds DO have a mint mark which I think will help thier acceptance post SHTF AND the almost 4 dollars over spot even at the cheapest place I could find (JMbullion) for the Eagles was starting to become an ever _greater percentage of the purchase price._
The GSM Buffolo Silvers as mere "rounds" were only 1 dollar over spot each
.
So since the spot had dropped so much, the onus of the 3.5-4 dollars over spot for a coin was less tolreable to me than it wuld ahve been at a higher spot price.

And i figure even tho my rounds will command less premium on sale they are also commanding less premium now which enables me to get more Silver in a convinet 1 oz format.

I spent almost 2/3rds of my paycheck since i belive this to be the right time.

Will it drop even lower?
probably.it will... but I am confident that its at least within a couple bucks form the long term floor.

And it DID fluctuate all morning up and down around that spot.

So I hope I didnt pull the triggger too soon 

As I am typing it just went back and spot went uip 10 cents after going down 12 cents since my order
It was a major effort for me to buy so much silver at once but I do think we are near the floor.
I did buy my buffalos here with the site sponsor:

http://www.jmbullion.com/1-oz-golden-state-mint-buffalo-new/

Even though I was VERY tempted by the dont tread on me rounds which are just beautiful:
http://www.independentlivingbullion...e-boston-tea-party-silver-bullion-rounds-1-oz

: )


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## d_saum

Saw the drop today and had to get in.. Didn't buy much, but hey, better than nothing. :beercheer:


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## FrankW

of course since i bought it dropped another dollar


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## UncleJoe

I just went through a few pages of pre-64 silver coins on ebay and see that some, but not all, sellers have lowered their price.


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## Immolatus

Those DTOM ones are pretty cool, My bud couldnt make it to the store today so I didnt get any. He better go tomorrow for us. My and my friend at work were chompin at the bit. I'm gonna stick with Maples for the lower premium.
Good pull Blue.
As I said, I dont really care so much about the price, lets just call it buy and hold. If it ends up back at my original (and bulk) buy in which is still close to half of what it is now, I'll still be buying.


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## k0xxx

Another twenty ounces today. I hope it goes down again tomorrow! Of course the wife isn't happy that I'm spending some of our new car down payment money...


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## FrankW

Silver rallied a little bit at the end of the day gaining back 60 cents.
Its not much but it seems the slide stopped for several hours today and then regained some


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## Tweto

If I can get into town today and if I can find any silver locally I'll be buying today.


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## Woody

As much as I’d like to buy another roll there are other things I need to get first. 40 more cases of pint and half-pint canning jars come to mind. Besides, maybe it will bottom out at $17 USD before it soars!

Been reading about major players dumping paper and buying real makes me think the game is not over yet.


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## Tweto

I'm watching Fox Business channel and a gold expert (he does not buy or sell gold) was interviewed. He said that he expects gold to go lower yet. If gold is going lower then silver will most likely go lower.


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## Genevieve

Isn't it Illinois that is working on making it a law that you have to "register" your gold now? Which state is it? I don't remember.


Next thing ya know they'll want to take it from you for pennies on the dollar amount or even I don't know, make it illegal for you to own gold.


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## k0xxx

Genevieve said:


> Isn't it Illinois that is working on making it a law that you have to "register" your gold now? Which state is it? I don't remember.
> 
> Next thing ya know they'll want to take it from you for pennies on the dollar amount or even I don't know, make it illegal for you to own gold.


FWIW: All that I have been able to find about this, is that a bill was introduced in 2012 for gold buyers to record who they bought gold from and the manner of payment (although the bill does require non cash payments). This was in response to gold thefts due to the soaring price of gold. I saw mention that the bill had passed one hurdle, but have not seen where it actually became law (although I believe that it stood a good chance of doing so). I have not found any information requiring the registration of gold owned by individuals.


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## BillS

Genevieve said:


> Isn't it Illinois that is working on making it a law that you have to "register" your gold now? Which state is it? I don't remember.
> 
> Next thing ya know they'll want to take it from you for pennies on the dollar amount or even I don't know, make it illegal for you to own gold.


I think they're doing it because they want the tax money. I would expect them to require gold dealers to let the government know when they bought gold from someone at a higher price than they sold it to them at.

I expect the federal government to make owning gold temporarily illegal so they can buy it using a new gold-backed currency. That gold-backed currency could be a one-world currency too. But I don't expect them to do that until a certain amount of time after the death of the dollar.


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## Tweto

I asked my local dealer about what he reports to the gov. He said as long I don't buy or sell in amounts $10,000 or more then he will not do a 1099. However the exception is if you are selling at any dollar amount he will require ID and he will take a digital photo of you and of what you are selling.
This information is only required to be kept for 3 days but he said that this is being increased to a longer period.

I have been buying from him for about a month, I buy with cash, and he has not taken any info from me. He calls me when something comes into his shop that I what, so he has my phone number. He went on to say that most of his customers pay in cash.


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## LincTex

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-DAY-SALE-...-Half-Dollars-Pre-1965-Not-Junk-/111053840206

$249

Hoping they go lower.....


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## bigg777

IMHO, yes, it is time to buy - a hedging position only, not a major position.
5% of liquid assets tops! There is still room for more weakness in the medals markets.

I am not a certified financial planner, do not rely on my guidance, do your own due diligence.


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## FrankW

well coming back a day and a a half day later looks I got very lucky and timed the floor right (more by accident than skill)

almost no netin silver price a since and we see very little movement now.
I was worried for a while there.

because after I bought... the fall kept going that same day for another dollar plus (!!).
and then it rebounded to where it is now.


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## FrankW

Now that we are nearing the end of the Tuesday its clear the price seems to have stabilized in the 23 dollar range.
Once panic selling stops for a full day and a half, its stopped period.

I think we just found our hard floor for silver.

While some macroeconomic conditions put pressure on Silver recently many of the underlying factors in favor of silver are just as valid as ever if not even more so.

Another often overlooked factor is this:

One ounce of gold right now buys 58.5 ounces of silver.
Historically its been between 15 and 50 ounces of silver for an ounce of gold.
This tells me that Silver is undervalued vis-à-vis Gold and has therefore has room to grow than Gold.
On top of that is much more practical as an emergency currency than Gold is.


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## BillM

*Unstable*



BlueZ said:


> Now that we are nearing the end of the day its clear the price seems to have stabilized in the 23 dollar range.
> Once panic selling stops for a fill day and a half, its topped period.
> 
> I think we just found our hard floor for silver.
> While some macroeconomic conditions out pressure on Silver recently many of the underlying factors in favor of silver are just as valid as ever if not even more so.
> 
> Another often overlooked factor is this:
> 
> One ounce of gold right now buys 58.5 ounces of silver.
> Historically its been between 15 and 50 ounces of silver for an ounce of gold.
> This tells me that Silver is undervalued vis-à-vis Gold and has therefore has room to grow than Gold.
> On top of that is much more practical as an emergency currency than Gold is.


The spot market is too unstable at this time. It is being driven by the commoditys market. Corn and other grains are going sky high, causeing speculative money to rush to them. That is the primary reason for the sell off of silver in the spot market.

However the purchase of phyisical silver is a good investment.

I bought 300 ounces Canadian yesterday when silver his $22.00 per ounce.

I believe that when the dollar inflates, it will go to $75.00 per ounce.

BlueZ, as soon as you can make a little profit on your spot silver , sell it and convert your investment to phisical PM's.


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## FrankW

BillM said:


> I bought 300 ounces Canadian yesterday when silver his $22.00 per ounce.
> 
> BlueZ, as soon as you can make a little profit on your spot silver , sell it and convert your investment to phisical PM's.


I wish I had waited a few hours and bought when spot was at 22.09.
But by the enxt day it went right back up to the mid 23's.

One cannot plan on hitting that lowest spot always. 
just hope to get close.

All my Silver is physical


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## UncleJoe

Back down to $22.48.


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## FrankW

Back up to 23.15


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## Immolatus

Back to $xx.xx!
It doesnt matter! We buy pm's because its *money.* Always has been, always will be. Its on sale, buy it up. I see only one possible scenario where it could be permanently lowered, a gubt price control like back in the day, but we all know that couldnt happen without an absolute dollar c0llaps3. A temporary lower price, absolutely, can it go lower, yes. All temporary.
The caveat: In the long run, we are all dead.


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## FrankW

Dave that's the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread.

-Its clearly at a floor of some kind now. good time to buy.
- we don't buy t for investment but as real emergency money.


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## LincTex

BlueZ said:


> - we don't buy it for investment, but as real emergency money.


That's my hedge... a LOT more people know about pre-'65 silver coins (at least now-a-days) than I thought they would. I have one 10 troy ounce bar, but I won't buy any more that large. Small is easier to trade.

OFF TOPIC: I also save copper pennies for fun (well, any copper)... I know a dude with a blue poly 55 gallon drum full of copper pennies. I wonder what it weighs... Hmmm....Copper weighs 542 lbs per cubic foot... 0.31 pounds per cubic inch, 231 cubic inches in a gallon....71.6 Pounds per gallon 
Wow!! Think about that, a 5 gallon water bottle full of pennies weighs 358 pounds!! (good thing I haven't tried to move it!) That means a 55 gallon drum is 4000 lbs!


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## FrankW

LincTex said:


> Wow!! Think about that, a 5 gallon water bottle full of pennies weighs 358 pounds!! (good thing I haven't tried to move it!) That means a 55 gallon drum is 4000 lbs!


Theoritically thats true but you ill likely have a lot of interstitial space reducing your fill.
I would calculate the 55 gallon drum, with a just hair under 40% fill or a 60% air void.


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## LincTex

I'll fill a 1 gallon jug and weigh it, then multiply by 55


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## swjohnsey

When "everyone" is buying, sell. When "everyone" is selling, buy.


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## BillS

LincTex said:


> That's my hedge... a LOT more people know about pre-'65 silver coins (at least now-a-days) than I thought they would. I have one 10 troy ounce bar, but I won't buy any more that large. Small is easier to trade.
> 
> OFF TOPIC: I also save copper pennies for fun (well, any copper)... I know a dude with a blue poly 55 gallon drum full of copper pennies. I wonder what it weighs... Hmmm....Copper weighs 542 lbs per cubic foot... 0.31 pounds per cubic inch, 231 cubic inches in a gallon....71.6 Pounds per gallon
> Wow!! Think about that, a 5 gallon water bottle full of pennies weighs 358 pounds!! (good thing I haven't tried to move it!) That means a 55 gallon drum is 4000 lbs!


I don't understand saving pennies. Yes, pre-1982 pennies are worth 2 cents but would any buyer be willing to sort through them to verify that? I don't think so. If it was me, I'd sell them and buy junk silver coins.

A 90% silver dime weighs 2.5 grams. A pre-1982 penny weighs 3.11 grams. So pennies weigh 24% more than dimes. A pre-1965 dime is worth $1.69 today compared to 2 cents for a pre-1982 penny. $1000 worth of pre-1982 pennies equals 48,544 pennies which weigh 332.5 pounds. $1000 worth of pre-1965 dimes equals 592 dimes which weigh 3.25 pounds. Pennies, based on their value, are about 100 times heavier than the equivalent value in dimes.


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## Sam78

Okay, here's my question about buying precious metals and it may be dumb, but if anyone can explain it to me, it would be appreciated. I turn on the TV and i see these commercials about how gold or silver or (any other precious metal) are holding their value more than money and that you should call them and buy gold. My question is, if gold or whatever precious metal is so valuable and money is so weak compare to said metal, why do they want me to give them my money for their so very precious metals? I may be a bit of a pessimist but, it just doesn't make sense to me. It seems like there's even something more valuable than the "precious" metals they are willing to trade with me for my money and that whatever that thing is, they need paper money to buy "it". The other option is that the dollar isn't weak and that they want your money to keep for themselves. Again, I could be plumb wrong, but if anyone can explain this to me, I'm all ears.


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## Woody

They make money by doing it, it is their business. Buy low sell high or charge a ‘premium’ of 3% or 5% to sell you a PM. They buy gold for say $1,500 an ounce and charge you $1,575 PLUS shipping and handling for it. Doesn’t sound like much but if they do a volume of 1,000 ounces a day that is $75,000 PLUS their shipping and handling fees as profit. They still have the original $1,500 to go out and buy more gold to sell at a profit.

When they buy from you they offer you $1,425 for an ounce of gold and YOU pay the shipping fees. Or if they do offer to pay spot price they can still make that $75 off the next buyer and you still pay to ship it to them. The only way they lose is if the price of gold goes down too far but they use averages. Say they buy 1,000 ounces at $1,400 and 1,000 at $1,600. The average price per ounce is $1,500. If the price goes down too far they just don’t sell any until it goes back over that $1,500 mark. They claim it is on back order or they are waiting for a shipment to come in and it will be a few weeks before delivery to you.

All the PM dealers are claiming they do not have the stock to sell, they are sold out of PM’s now. Perhaps the price is below their limit so they are holding until it goes back up.

At least that is how I see it.


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## sillymoo

I buy a little here and there regardless of how much it costs. I even bought when it was in the $50 range. Years from now, I don't think I will kick myself for spending $50 an ounce. My husband and father chewed me out for buying several silver dollars for a lot more than spot (at the time). I paid $12 per eagle. I still remind them of it. 

I don't know if this is going on everywhere, but we are having a hard time finding anything to buy. We cleaned out the coin store of all the pre-64 coins they had, and that was only $150 worth of dimes. Plus, their service charge increased from 3% to 10%.


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## FrankW

Woody did a good job explaining it. 
Incidentally JMBullion.com a site sponsor here charges no shipping above a certain amount ( I dont think it was all that high).


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## MDsapper

i got a guy here who always has good silver


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## BillS

You know the price is being manipulated when the sellers are out of stock. The actual market price is much higher than the official market price.


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## FrankW

Just a tiny update:

Silver closed last nite within pennies of the observed average (not the high, low or closing ) spot price during this week.


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## Immolatus

Our store always has silver, but not always ASE's. On Friday we had a nice chat with them and he had an interesting story. They just ordered 14 boxes of em, and within hours, their supplier called back and said they'll buy them back at $5/coin more than they just paid. They delcined because 7 of those boxes were already sold.
Sapper, my store is GCE in Gaithersburg, a trek for you but theyre good honest people and a registered dealer at the Mint.
Fred: I know... 
I have to admit that JM is a little cheaper than my store, but I walk in and walk out with the goods. Right now the wait on most sites for ASE's is 2 weeks.


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## BillM

Here is a way to think about PM's.

Compare them only to other commoditys.

For instance, did you know that an ounce of gold will buy the same number of bushels of wheat today that an ounce of gold would buy during Roman times?

The only thing that changes is the value of currencys.


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## FrankW

BillM said:


> Here is a way to think about PM's.
> 
> Compare them only to other commoditys.
> 
> For instance, did you know that an ounce of gold will buy the same number of bushels of wheat today that an ounce of gold would buy during Roman times?
> 
> The only thing that changes is the value of currencys.


That's pretty profound!


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## FrankW

Immolatus said:


> I have to admit that JM is a little cheaper than my store, but I walk in and walk out with the goods. Right now the wait on most sites for ASE's is 2 weeks.


Even JMB's prices rose a bit in the difference over spot since Friday

I think they corrected it over the weekend seeing with everyone buying coins and rounds maybe they were not asking enough over spot for those rounds.

This makes me feel extra good in how good my last deal was


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## Dakine

I bought another 1/2 lb of bars and rounds today. Can never have enough!


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## FrankW

Dakine said:


> I bought another 1/2 lb of bars and rounds today. Can never have enough!


Yummy: droolie:


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## Dakine

haha I know right? 

I need to figure out how much I want in the bars and rounds, and how much I want in the junk coins.

it's all a trade off right? what I spend on silver, I'm not spending on jars + food, or some other new tools and gadgets and whatever. But, then again, the things like silver and food, are going to mean when the dollar goes splat, I can buy things like those tools and stuff from people that will sell them cheap to get a currency that people want to accept or food to eat. 

So it's all good


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## Immolatus

I'm gonna switch to buying Maples for a little while, not a fan of the premium for ASE's, and at least theoretically they are "worth" $5 as opposed to $1. Yes, I know that isnt very logical, but there it is.


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## SlobberToofTigger

I am pulling this out of my backside so take the information at exactly the price you paid...

If you look at the last spike/dive in price 05-08 and compare it to the current one 09-13 silver should drop back to about $18 before it picks back up. Of course I am making a boat load of assumptions and eyeballing the charts so it might make it back down to $12 before it heads back up but I am not betting on it.


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## UncleJoe

Merged with existing silver price thread.


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## BillS

http://www.providentmetals.com/coins/us-silver-coins/coin-90-silver-us-junk.html

You can buy one dollar face value silver for $18.69. One dollar face value has the same silver whether its a silver dollar, ten dimes, or four quarters. It's their choice what to send you. If you want half dollars it's $18.90 per face value dollar.

I'm hoping to buy more silver soon. I want to balance my savings between cash and silver.


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## HarleyRider

I am buying 1 oz. silver bars on a semi-regular basis. I figure they should be worth more than paper money in the near future.


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## hiwall

> You can buy one dollar face value silver for $18.69.


$16.22 this morning! Maybe I will buy some.


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## ZoomZoom

Where are you seeing $16.22?

I'm watching live silver prices and it's just now gone under $20
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html


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## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> Where are you seeing $16.22?


ApMex is selling face value 90% (pre-'64) coins for that if you are buying $1000 worth. Still under $17 though for smaller quantities.

.999 is still $20.02 per troy


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## db2469

Gold below $1300 and silver below $20....yikes!


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## BillS

ZoomZoom said:


> Where are you seeing $16.22?
> 
> I'm watching live silver prices and it's just now gone under $20
> http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html


At this exact time, it's $16.25 per face value dollar of 90% silver coins. Here:

http://www.providentmetals.com/coins/us-silver-coins/coin-90-silver-us-junk.html


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## Immolatus

ZoomZoom said:


> Where are you seeing $16.22?
> 
> I'm watching live silver prices and it's just now gone under $20
> http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html


I made the same mistake Zoom!

Cant hurt to add some more to the stack this weekend, no? I guess we'll know more on Monday if everything is going to keep getting crushed, but it certainly looks like it.


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## musketjim

Can't eat it and it doesn't pattern well if I reload it so I'll just skip it and keep on with my preps.


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## invision

musketjim said:


> Can't eat it and it doesn't pattern well if I reload it so I'll just skip it and keep on with my preps.


So once the SHTF, and things start to rebound... How will you ever buy anything? Or do you think the entire history of mankind will suddenly decide bartering for bullets is better than any other form of currency every used from the Egyptians to Romans, to Greeks, to Aztecs, to The British Empire, to US??? What happens when you really need something, but I am not bartering for bullets, cause I have a few 1000 rds of every cal I have a gun for, and I go, 1/2 ounce of silver for this trinket? Sorry not having a hedge on inflation and having some PMs in preps to me is NOT a good idea... Those who have it going in, will not be in a bad position coming out of it... And we will come out of it... Maybe a few months, maybe a few years, maybe a decade but we will, and then what?


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## hiwall

musketjim and invision, you are both correct. First step for everyone should be the necessities (food, water, shelter, defense). Only after those are complete(or mostly so) do I feel that your current money supply should be spent on PM's.


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## partdeux

full picture balance.

Can't eat ammo
can't defend or hunt with silver
Can't use either for shelter


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## mojo4

musketjim said:


> Can't eat it and it doesn't pattern well if I reload it so I'll just skip it and keep on with my preps.


Guess you didnt see young guns - "Hello bob! Goodbye bob!! Best dollar eighty i ever spent!!"


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## UncleJoe

One of the talking heads on Fox Business feels the next stop for gold is going to be $1100.


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## Tweto

Jim Rogers is saying $750 for gold. Jim Rodgers has been a gold support for ever and says you should own physical gold. Last week he said that he has stopped buying for awhile.


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## invision

Tweto said:


> Jim Rogers is saying $750 for gold. Jim Rodgers has been a gold support for ever and says you should own physical gold. Last week he said that he has stopped buying for awhile.


He is waiting for it to come down more, then I bet he starts buying...


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## Tweto

invision said:


> He is waiting for it to come down more, then I bet he starts buying...


Yes, he said that he will start buying again when it gets a little lower. He did not give a target price.


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## LongRider

BillM said:


> Here is a way to think about PM's.
> 
> Compare them only to other commoditys.
> 
> For instance, did you know that an ounce of gold will buy the same number of bushels of wheat today that an ounce of gold would buy during Roman times?
> 
> The only thing that changes is the value of currencys.


Another way to look at it is 25K of gold that would have bought a house in the 60's will buy that same house valued at 250K today. This is the way to look at PMs in my experience, as a way to preserve the wealth you have. While there have been occasions that PM have raised dramatically over a short term but entering that game can be extremely risking and you MUST get in before it begins to rise and out before it levels out and drops. My brother lost 30K playing that game in the 70's. He was at work saturation diving 300 feet under water when the prices dropped. IMO also stay away from double eagles Canadian maple leafs and other "collectable" PM coins as their value is arbitrary and based upon collector value not the value of the PM they contain. Also collectables and bullion purchases and sales of 20K or more must be reported. Small denomination gold, lire, francs, sovereigns on the other hand are valued solely on the value of the PM they contain and are not reported regardless of the amount sold or bought. They provide discreet preservation of your wealth that can be liquidated at any time, now or after SHTF.


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## Immolatus

Bit the bullet and got a few Maples from JM (Fred ya talked me into it-I didnt have to leave the house and theyre cheaper) to check them out.
And since I cant eat them (unless I'm really desperate) I hit up Patriot Supply also.

JMBullion is a sponsor/advertiser on this site, but I assume everyone in this thread knows it already.


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## BillS

If gold drops to $1,000 I'm going to dip into my emergency cash to buy some. Those of us with PM's will be able to buy groceries no matter how expensive they get in the store. I expect the cash from selling a 90% silver dime to be enough money to buy a loaf of bread no matter how expensive bread becomes. Of course, you'll have to sell a number of dimes at a time.


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## FrankW

Immolatus said:


> Bit the bullet and got a few Maples from JM (Fred ya talked me into it-I didnt have to leave the house and theyre cheaper) to check them out.
> And since I cant eat them (unless I'm really desperate) I hit up Patriot Supply also.
> 
> JMBullion is a sponsor/advertiser on this site, but I assume everyone in this thread knows it already.


Cool.

yes the maples at JMB are a great value IMO with only a small amount ( for a coin) upsell over spot.

Eagles have come down too.

I'll always be able to buy groceries and gas.


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## Immolatus

BlueZ said:


> Cool.
> 
> yes the maples at JMB are a great value IMO with only a small amount ( for a coin) upsell over spot.
> 
> Eagles have come down too.
> 
> I'll always be able to buy groceries and gas.


Youre assuming they will be available for sale!
Shoulda ordered more on thursday!


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## LincTex

Hmmm.... still climbing.

If you adjust for inflation, this is till a very historical low, considering.

http://www.apmex.com/category/1185/apmex-silver-bars

http://www.apmex.com/category/1197/apmex-silver-rounds


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## LincTex

BillS said:


> Those of us with PM's will be able to buy groceries no matter how expensive they get in the store....enough money to buy a loaf of bread no matter how expensive bread becomes.


You should make sure it never gets to this point. If the groceries are that expensive and you have the money in hand, you have just painted a big bulls-eye on yourself.

Instead, be a shrewd dealer. Your relationships with those who deal in goods will be worth more than your PM's. Luke 16: 1-15


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## partdeux

GOFO gone negative?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-...le-gets-deeper-subzero-gofo-slide-accelerates


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