# anyone ever done metal can sealing?



## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

So I'm really hooked on canning in jars now, and just for giggles I did a quick search on home canning in metal cans, and go figure, there's All American again, johnny on the spot with a home can sealer. But it's spendy! $542 on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/All-American-Master-Hand-Crank-Sealer/dp/B001DHFX92/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1358121696&sr=8-5&keywords=metal+can+sealer

so this raises some questions and I'm hoping someone has tried this. I can think of a lot of things I want to spend $550 on first before this, but then again, maybe this isnt such a bad deal after all????

how much do metal cans and lids cost?
Can the metal cans be reused with a new lid?

jars are nice because you can easily see inside them and view the contents, but metal cans don't break (I realize they aren't indestructible but at least they don't break into shards of glass on the floor in event of an earthquake). also, if they are reusable, I get a ton more tin cans from the grocery store than I do jars that I can reuse.

Anyone ever do this before?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

Search for "#10 cans" and that should be enough to get you on the right track with respect to pricing.

I've never done this so I can't write with any authority but my understanding is that the cans can be reused. You simply slice off a 1/4" off the top of the can every time you put on a new lid.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

I looked into this a bit since my parents picked up some can sealers at garage sales. Basically, the only thing you can safely seal in them is dry goods like beans or rice. There isn't a 100% certain way to be sure that you've killed any and all bacteria if you try sealing anything else in them. The cans and lids aren't terribly expensive, but they are single use, and you need the correct can sealer. The lids and cans aren't interchangable, and #10 cans need a different sealer than your typical 16 ounce can.

All in all, it's cheaper to use mylar for your dry goods, and use glass jars for anything else.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> I looked into this a bit since my parents picked up some can sealers at garage sales. Basically, the only thing you can safely seal in them is dry goods like beans or rice. There isn't a 100% certain way to be sure that you've killed any and all bacteria if you try sealing anything else in them. The cans and lids aren't terribly expensive, but they are single use, and you need the correct can sealer. The lids and cans aren't interchangable, and #10 cans need a different sealer than your typical 16 ounce can.
> 
> All in all, it's cheaper to use mylar for your dry goods, and use glass jars for anything else.


The manuals for my canners have processing times for steel cans.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> I looked into this a bit since my parents picked up some can sealers at garage sales. Basically, the only thing you can safely seal in them is dry goods like beans or rice. There isn't a 100% certain way to be sure that you've killed any and all bacteria if you try sealing anything else in them. The cans and lids aren't terribly expensive, but they are single use, and you need the correct can sealer. The lids and cans aren't interchangable, and #10 cans need a different sealer than your typical 16 ounce can.
> 
> All in all, it's cheaper to use mylar for your dry goods, and use glass jars for anything else.


I wonder why meat or veggies couldnt be packed and cooked in the AA just like mason jars are? It's the same theory on heat and pressure raising temp to killing botulism however since the can is fully sealed before going into the AA maybe that creates a grenade? (inside of a pressurized vessel no less)


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

As a youth my family used to can salmon in cans. It became harder and more expensive to acquire the cans so eventually we switched to jars. I find it easier and the jars are reusable. Even if you could reuse a can I would not. Cans have a different interior coating depending on what is to be processed. Tomatoes may well have a different coating than green beans as would meat. Cans will eventually rust through, often from the inside, which is another reason not to reuse. I have also switched to the Tattler reusable lids.

The LDS Cannery near you has #10 cans (to buy), canning equipment (to borrow), and probably someone that would talk you through the process.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Caribou said:


> As a youth my family used to can salmon in cans. It became harder and more expensive to acquire the cans so eventually we switched to jars. I find it easier and the jars are reusable. Even if you could reuse a can I would not. Cans have a different interior coating depending on what is to be processed. Tomatoes may well have a different coating than green beans as would meat. Cans will eventually rust through, often from the inside, which is another reason not to reuse. I have also switched to the Tattler reusable lids.
> 
> The LDS Cannery near you has #10 cans (to buy), canning equipment (to borrow), and probably someone that would talk you through the process.


Thanks Caribou, I forgot about the can linings being different based on the contents, that's a very important factor.

I still need to get down to the LDS cannery and talk to them. If nothing else moving dry goods like my powdered eggs I've ground in my mill, and all of the beans and rice from store bought plastic to cans would be a sound idea. Seems like coffee cans would be most economical, but I'd prefer smaller cans for things that use less quantity such as eggs or if I start dehydrating my own milk or butter. I've canned butter though and I'd like to do more of that instead of trying to make a powder, and powdered milk is cheap enough to just buy so might as well do that every few times I go to the grocery store.

But like you said, all of these are very good things to talk to the LDS folks about. Gotta love people who are so willing to help even when you don't belong to their community.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

No reason ya can't do canin in cans. Except, cans er awfull expespensive. Fair mount higher then glass jars. I've wanted one fer a long time, but, just ain't worth the money.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

I have one and I have the cans for it. If you are starting from scratch you might want to stick with jars or a heavy duty vacuum sealer that will seal the mylar retort pouches. You may be able to find a used can sealer on Ebay. You may spend a few hundred on it then the cans. Do a bit of research on the high end commercial vacuum sealers that will do the mylar. If i had it to do over again I that is what I would do. 
Just my 2 cents


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Sealing cans properly for dry goods is different from sealing them for pressurized food canning. An improper seam may blow off, causing damage and injury.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

I have a book here from my Gma here that explains everything you need for canning in steel cans.

It explain the 3 types of cans and what is needed for what food product. Has packing and processing instructions.

Processing times are listed for #2 and #2 1/2 cans only though.

To answer one of your questions/curiosities is that everything is packed hot. So little expansion would take place in the canner.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> I have a book here from my Gma here that explains everything you need for canning in steel cans.
> 
> It explain the 3 types of cans and what is needed for what food product. Has packing and processing instructions.
> 
> ...


can you give the title and author of the book? I'd like to see if it's still available either on Amazon or on a service I'd read about that keeps old books still alive.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Dakine said:


> can you give the title and author of the book? I'd like to see if it's still available either on Amazon or on a service I'd read about that keeps old books still alive.


The cover is missing. 

Page number one says"Home Canning of Fruits and Vegetables"

I think that is the name.

I also have the canner manual of one of my vintage Mirro that has very detailed process and canning instructions for tin cans. It's probably more useful than the first book.

The jist of it is to either hot pack or pack and then place the open cans in enough water to come within 2" of the top of the can and boil. The goal is to have a core temp of 170+ before sealing the can.

The only real difference I see otherwise is that you take the weight off and vent the canner when done processing instead of letting it cool like you would with glass.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

PackerBacker said:


> The cover is missing.
> 
> Page number one says"Home Canning of Fruits and Vegetables"
> 
> ...


This is what I stated earlier: there is no way to use metal cans at home and be absolutely sure that any nasties have been killed in the process. If the contents of the can are exposed to room temp air before being sealed, then there is still a possiblity of introducing bacteria before the can is sealed.

The entire purpose of using a pressure canner is to achieve temperatures greater than the 212F at which water boils, which ensures that all bacteria are killed.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> This is what I stated earlier: there is no way to use metal cans at home and be absolutely sure that any nasties have been killed in the process. If the contents of the can are exposed to room temp air before being sealed, then there is still a possiblity of introducing bacteria before the can is sealed.
> 
> The entire purpose of using a pressure canner is to achieve temperatures greater than the 212F at which water boils, which ensures that all bacteria are killed.


I agree on home pressure canners (glass jars) going for higher temps because it cooks all the nasties...

but does that mean that mass produced canned goods (metal) are produced in clean rooms? I guess it's certainly possible, it seems unlikely though. how could they be that cheap if there was that much overhead in the process?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

zombieresponder, I think you are misunderstanding, the idea is to get the cans hot, seal them, then pressure can.
I don't recommend metal cans either though.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> This is what I stated earlier: there is no way to use metal cans at home and be absolutely sure that any nasties have been killed in the process. If the contents of the can are exposed to room temp air before being sealed, then there is still a possiblity of introducing bacteria before the can is sealed.
> 
> The entire purpose of using a pressure canner is to achieve temperatures greater than the 212F at which water boils, which ensures that all bacteria are killed.


That is what the pressure canner is for. :nuts:


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Dakine said:


> I agree on home pressure canners (glass jars) going for higher temps because it cooks all the nasties...
> 
> but does that mean that mass produced canned goods (metal) are produced in clean rooms? I guess it's certainly possible, it seems unlikely though. how could they be that cheap if there was that much overhead in the process?


They have pressurized baths that they use in their process. They also have stringent food production standards, seam specifications, and seam/weld analyzing software to insure the steel isn't fractured or compromised from the welds or seams.


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