# Why?



## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Why would you assume that in a SHTF situation store owners, managers, and other employees would be any different than yourselves? Your priorities are to get home and take care of your families first. In the event of a major problem would those bright shiny faces who hunger for your plastic cards be waiting with open arms to serve you and allow you to "buy" things that their families could use? Would you rationally expect the assistant managers who makes $30k a year to be there? What about all the employees who make < $10 an hour stand their posts so you could accomplish what you should have already done?

In the case of smalled stores, will the owners lock the dorrs, barracade themselves , and attempt to defend what they have by any means possible?


Some of you wish to get home from??? Then you wish to organize youself. Finally you want to desend on a merchant who has no idea of your intent -acquire by what means you have- and hurry home to assure your well being.

Please, rethink this one! Everyone will be trying to take care of themselves and those they care about!


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## geoffreys7 (Jan 11, 2011)

All very true. I'm a 30 year member of a volunteer fire department and if there was a real shtf situation my family would come first. I've been out on calls during blizzards, hurricanes and recently wilfires. Many of the public don't appreciate what we do so if my family were in danger why would I risk losing them for someone that won't help themselves. During the last hurricane we cut up downed trees to clear the road and several people complained we didn't take away the trees from the road instead of moving them to the shoulder for the town to pick up later.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

geoffreys7 said:


> What would Charlie Sheen do? :scratch


He was the one [email protected]#ing about the trees.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

One word.

Katrina


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

partdeux said:


> One word.
> 
> Katrina


Good one. They came pouring out the housing projects and started trashing and looting before it was even over. High winds and pouring rain still. A 4 ton A/C being pushed down the street by wind, and the glass was being smashed in by looters running out with electronics. And that wasn't even in Orleans Parish. Can't feel sorry for anyone who doesn't do SOMETHING to prep after that.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

"Some of you wish to get home from??? Then you wish to organize youself. Finally you want to desend on a merchant who has no idea of your intent -acquire by what means you have- and hurry home to assure your well being."


I don't assume that people would be manning the store checkouts with a shtf scenario. That being said, sometimes the more astute people are aware of pending shtf before the sheeple. If that's the case, I would have no compunctions about going shopping for some last minute items, but I don't count on it happening. Probably should have enough at home to take care of business before it hits the fan.

Reference the quote above from your original post...I'm curious as to what you mean. Are you implying that groups get together and loot stores in order to get what they need? "...by what means you have-" Sounds like you are recommending a store invasion, which I hope you're not. That could be a good way to get shot...just sayin'. Maybe I'm taking your quote out of context.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Sorry, had to head to the dentist this A.M., and wanted to get the thought down before I left. I had been reading a posting and a gentleman had described , his family was to gather and then some of the adults were going to he headed out to secure---. 

If it's possible to get it done, please, do it. The point I was trying to make is -don't count on it being possible! I remember the pictures of the Korean shopkeepers in California taking care of business. 

tac803, my intent:

1) try to get people to think about the fact that other people may have the same priorities-taking care of their families so the stores they are expecting will not be in the business as usual mode

2) this one is much more personal- Should the SHTF my 1st job will be to get the grandson to where he belongs and then to make sure his mother gets to where he is. Being in the managemant of a big box store, she will try to get her people home and then get home herself. She is capable and shoots a 9 and 357 quite well (beginning as a sub teen) as well as driving a large SUV. She is starting to see the writing on the wall. I don't wish to see her in trouble for defending herself. Her husband and her father will make sure she gets into that SUV . I have no desire to threaten. discharge a firearm at, or be responsible for the death of someone because they failed to prepare. (There are 4 bull elk, 6 antelope, and numerous deer in the hunting picture book. Some taken with a handgun and some with a rifle. Some were taken standing and some on a dead run. I don't wish to shoot a zombie or member of the golden horde or someone intent on harming my daughter.) My daughter will be reunited with her son.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

headhunter said:


> Why would you assume that in a SHTF situation store owners, managers, and other employees would be any different than yourselves? Your priorities are to get home and take care of your families first. In the event of a major problem would those bright shiny faces who hunger for your plastic cards be waiting with open arms to serve you and allow you to "buy" things that their families could use? Would you rationally expect the assistant managers who makes $30k a year to be there? What about all the employees who make < $10 an hour stand their posts so you could accomplish what you should have already done?
> 
> In the case of smalled stores, will the owners lock the dorrs, barracade themselves , and attempt to defend what they have by any means possible?
> 
> ...


Wow, headbunter, for such a long-time forum member, your post assumes an awful lot that just doesn't seem to be supported by most posts on this forum... :dunno:
I for one would *like to think* that most members of *this* forum are well on their way to *not* having to "go to the store at the last minute". 
I'm also, fairly certain that many on here have eschewed "the nice shiny plastic" in favor of "nice shiny metal" (gold, silver, copper, and the not-so-shiny-yet-just-as-important *LEAD*) 
It seems to me that most here also are "organizing themselves" *now*, gathering items and knowledge on forums such as this.
Your statements seem more geared towards people that *aren't* prepping (ie 'sheeple', or 'zombies') instead of those of us with some foresight who, while not prepared for every contingency, will hopefully be able to "ride out" (and maybe also help others with) some of the rougher spots of a :shtf: scenario better than the general public.
I think you're not giving proper credit for possessing some form of moral center to a community which has the purpose of being a "prepared *SOCIETY*".


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Reference the quote above from your original post...I'm curious as to what you mean. Are you implying that groups get together and loot stores in order to get what they need? "...by what means you have-" Sounds like you are recommending a store invasion, which I hope you're not. That could be a good way to get shot...just sayin'. Maybe I'm taking your quote out of context.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying the people that started looting were damaging things just to damge them. The things taken from the stores were everything but food, water, toilet paper, diapers and baby formula. Looting IS a great way to get shot, especially if the store owner is still there. Saw store owners sleep in their stores then have to leave because the criminals broke all the glass out and were going in armed. Just giving a tid bit of what I saw and how dangerous it may be in a disaster.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

Hey headhunter, From what ive seen on this site so far it would seem your "preachng to the choir" so to speak.

Maybe put a copy of your post up in some other places....

even on a notice board at your local shops lol just dont be seen doing it!, might give people some food for thought whilst they push around there trolly and they may start prepping right there and then.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

The_Blob, take a read of "SHTF Shopping trip"/general survival discussion. After reading it, please, feel free to come back and chew me out again if I missed it. Preppers are people and run the full range of the human existence, both saint and sinners. We have those that "walk the walk" and those that 'talk the talk".
As a long time reader, I've observed that there are those who view the world from an ego centric point of view. There are many who attempt to help everyone without viewing themsves as future world leaders.

As far as the site , I'm usually in awe of what some have done and are doing. I'd rather read and learn. I rejoice when a skill is learned, a prepper gets and plants fruit trees, or sinks a well. I smile some when a newbie writes of "falling" a tree. I admit to being cantankerous when I read about "getting out of Dodge" and am glad most have realized that while Indian tribes could move freely about, in our society no matter which direction one turns there are people living. I wonder about the ability of a person to survive in the dead of winter for extended times (yes, I've seen 100 below wind chills and a friend's pump house froze up-it was cold out there) As far as neighbors helping one another, that's what they do. 
A million years ago, we were taught that the reason our system works is because most people are law abiding and the believe in "the rule of law". You use the term "moral center', I am unsure what portion of our society has a moral center. I was shocked when the wife was watching TV and people were walking in to a pawn shop demanding money -especially for junk! When I've seen video of Katrina and even uniformed cops are "shopping", I tend to get pi__ed! When I read a "flash mob " has beaten one or two people or stripped a store, I'm disgusted. Count how many times our President has out and out lied and yet Congress has yet to bring in articles of impeachment much less to actually try him. Just for the lies, isn't that what Richard Nixon resigned over? Where is the moral outrage? Why hasn't Eric Holder been charged with actions causing the death of a federal agent? Moral outrage I have! Moral center, I don't know if it exists, more importantly at what level it exists.

in his 2nd Inaugural Address G. Washington said- the best way to insure the peace is to prepare for war-


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

headhunter said:


> Why would you assume that in a SHTF situation store owners, managers, and other employees would be any different than yourselves? Your priorities are to get home and take care of your families first. In the event of a major problem would those bright shiny faces who hunger for your plastic cards be waiting with open arms to serve you and allow you to "buy" things that their families could use? Would you rationally expect the assistant managers who makes $30k a year to be there? What about all the employees who make < $10 an hour stand their posts so you could accomplish what you should have already done?
> 
> In the case of smalled stores, will the owners lock the dorrs, barracade themselves , and attempt to defend what they have by any means possible?
> 
> ...


Good point.


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## JoKing (Mar 11, 2012)

Very interesting dialog. Just one question: What the heck are we talking about here? OP seems to be urging people to not wait for the balloon to go up to get last minute supplies, though i don't remember it being said. And as I read it's like a pinball bouncing around. Mass confusion in my head.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

You"ve got it! Great! Get yur stuff early 'cause without doin' what ya shouldn't do, the store probably won't be open.


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## d_saum (Jan 17, 2012)

headhunter said:


> You"ve got it! Great! Get yur stuff early 'cause without doin' what ya shouldn't do, the store probably won't be open.


I'm very tempted to make a "Captain Obvious" joke here... but I'll refrain.... :ignore:


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## philjam (Dec 17, 2008)

Your blanket accusation (you assume) accuse me/us of "assuming" yet you yourself are assuming that we/I assume. 

And only YOU have a moral center assumes the rest of us do not. I am going to assume that people here probably do not need to have winter weather in MN explained as if we were in 2nd grade geography. My advice is ... walk away from the computer. Go ice fishing .... look deeply into your ice hole.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Errrr. huh? Who was that for?

Moral center=highly over rated.


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## Ration-AL (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm


Magus said:


> Errrr. huh? Who was that for?
> 
> Moral center=highly over rated.


There's a balance between humanity and survival man...remember the kid who got eaten by parents...lol , life and everything that surrounds it is grey as opposed to black and white , we can't really say one way or another what we would or wouldn't do or what's going to happen

Its all about the context of the situation, there's little i wouldn't do to survive, but I'd never raid or murder for what i need , some would but i feel some sort of belief system , even the most basic of moral compasses for life is essential .

If your plane crashes in the Andes and you have to eat your friends to survive fair enough, but to take the life of an honest man just trying to make his way in the world just as you, is indefensible and those are the sort I'm shooting first and asking questions later with when shtf .:beercheer:


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