# 72 Hours



## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

It seems that 72 hours is the amount of time that it takes for societal collapse after a SHTF event. It happened with Katrina and it happened on that cruise ship out in the Gulf of Mexico. 

Both times, people were described as behaving like "animals" within 72 hours. I think it is intriguing that both times the people knew that help was coming. They only had to hold it together until TPTB could get them to safety. 

Can you imagine if we have a national catastrophe where there is no help coming? I'm willing to bet that things will fall apart even faster (especially in the urban centers).


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Will it even take 72 hours in these urban settings?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I don't believe it. Even on the cruise ship things weren't as bad as the media would have us think. It takes 72 hours for folks to begin dealing with problems. When the lights go out down here society will continue to function.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

I've thought about this. What I wonder is, what will be the next phase, and how long will it take to kick in? At some point things will have to 'normalize' (although normal at that point will be different than what's considered normal now). But at some point people will need to build society again. When does that kick in? (and how long do we need to hunker down through the crazy stuff?)


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Some folks won't miss a beat or a meal. You can bet the rich won't. For the rich this will be a golden opportunity.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> I don't believe it. Even on the cruise ship things weren't as bad as the media would have us think. It takes 72 hours for folks to begin dealing with problems. When the lights go out down here society will continue to function.


I was quoting two people from the cruise ship that were interviewed. They were describing the way that people were behaving and specifically used the word, "animals".

You can chose to ignore the evidence, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I worked in LE and EMS for a long time. People call 911 if their Sunday paper isn't delivered or if the McDonalds screws up their order. Do you seriously think these people are going to be able to function when the lights go out??? What do you think is going to happen when there is no 911 and there is no one to solve their problems for them?


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Willie Sutton (a bank robber) is falsely attributed to this quote, but even though he didn't utter it, it was true for him and it holds true in other contexts as well.

Willie Sutton, why do you rob banks? -- Because that's where the money is!

Dak, why do you live in gangland? -- Because that's where the zombies are!! 

Although if I had my 'druthers I'd be far far away from here lol


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

kejmack said:


> I was quoting two people from the cruise ship that were interviewed. They were describing the way that people were behaving and specifically used the word, "animals".
> 
> You can chose to ignore the evidence, but that doesn't mean it won't happen. I worked in LE and EMS for a long time. People call 911 if their Sunday paper isn't delivered or if the McDonalds screws up their order. Do you seriously think these people are going to be able to function when the lights go out??? What do you think is going to happen when there is no 911 and there is no one to solve their problems for them?


There were more than 4,000 folks on that ship. Do you think they aired to opinion of the two that thought folks were animals or the 3,998 who didn't think it was so bad? Will folks function when the lights go out? Yep, happens occassionally here in huricane alley.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Okay, swjohnsey, it you think society will continue, then why are you a prepper?


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm not a prepper, I'm and adventurer. I know society will continue. I have read a bit of history. Even during the black plague, three fourths of the people survived. If you take a worse case senerio like Hirosima, about 1/5th the population was killed outright. Something on the order of 1/2 to 1/4 eventually died. Half of the people lived. Look at Hiroshima today, utter devistation.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

What did you think happened when you ran out of TP and Beer?


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## rrussell250 (Jan 31, 2013)

I saw first hand what happened during Katrina, Gustav, Isaac, and a handful of other hurricanes that hit the gulf coast and I can tell you that society falls apart in 3-5 days. The government tries to help but doesn't do much in those first few days. 
People who are prepared stay close to home with family and friends, those who are not will loot rob and steal by any means necessary. 
It's not difficult to make it through the first week with no power or water, however after that it can get a little scary. The elderly will be the first to go and then the very young of those who have no means will follow. If you don't have fuel supplies or if you burn it all up on generators ,like most will do, bugging out will not be an option unless you are willing, able and safe enough to walk out. 
Society definitely turns on itself in short order. It's not pretty but it's the truth.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

The reason they don't prepare is because they know they will loot, rob and steal.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I lost count of how many hurricanes I've been through, several direct hits. What always amazed me it how exagerated the reports on the devestation were. During the last direct hit I got into my old truck and took a turn around Kingsville while the eye passed . . . very errie. I live in a mid-sized town, around 25,000, no looting or other hijinks. Of course most folks down here are armed.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> I'm not a prepper, I'm and adventurer. I know society will continue. I have read a bit of history. Even during the black plague, three fourths of the people survived. If you take a worse case senerio like Hirosima, about 1/5th the population was killed outright. Something on the order of 1/2 to 1/4 eventually died. Half of the people lived. Look at Hiroshima today, utter devistation.


An adventurer ... interesting! 

I think you missed the point ... at which time people turned not survived. At what point do people turn as back to "animals" ...


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

swjohnsey, I think you are a phoney! Kingsville is not sitting on the coast the way that Galveston and New Orleans are. To say you rode out hurricane there is comparing apples to oranges. There has NEVER been a severe hurricane to hit Kingsville and it certainly never has been devastated the way NOLA was by Katrina and the way Bolivar was flattened by Ike. 

The purpose of this thread is not to convince you anyway. If you want to cling to your delusions that society will be just fine after an EMP or other disaster, go right ahead. The rest of us would like to discuss the 72 hour observation.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> I lost count of how many hurricanes I've been through, several direct hits. What always amazed me it how exagerated the reports on the devestation were. During the last direct hit I got into my old truck and took a turn around Kingsville while the eye passed . . . very errie. I live in a mid-sized town, around 25,000, no looting or other hijinks. Of course most folks down here are armed.


Yes, the MSM has exagerated the reports in many a storm. (fact) But that does not mean folks didn't turn ugly.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Yeah im here in Mobile Al. All the hurricanes and near misses ive seen, most folks were civilised and very helpful to their neibors. The only places i can remember any looting was in high crime areas, such as ghetto types. That being said, if we had a national disaster big enough to shut down everything for a week or more, i think you best lock and load and stand watch at night.


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## rrussell250 (Jan 31, 2013)

Exaggerated or not, bringing generators to Jefferson parish after a hurricane will get you shot at. I'm not exaggerating, people will do what they think is within their power to survive even if it means doing something they would otherwise find repulsive. 
Damage from the storm is irrelevant, the loss of power and basic utilities WILL turn people against one another.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

rrussell250 said:


> I saw first hand what happened during Katrina, Gustav, Isaac, and a handful of other hurricanes that hit the gulf coast and I can tell you that society falls apart in 3-5 days. The government tries to help but doesn't do much in those first few days.
> People who are prepared stay close to home with family and friends, those who are not will loot rob and steal by any means necessary.
> It's not difficult to make it through the first week with no power or water, however after that it can get a little scary. The elderly will be the first to go and then the very young of those who have no means will follow. If you don't have fuel supplies or if you burn it all up on generators ,like most will do, bugging out will not be an option unless you are willing, able and safe enough to walk out.
> Society definitely turns on itself in short order. It's not pretty but it's the truth.


Katrina was what got me really serious about prepping. The filth was unbelievable. "People", and I use that word lightly, preyed on the elderly and the vulnerable (women and children). Imagine an emergency hospital set up under a highway overpass! Worse than a third world country. People were coming in with all kinds of infections (respiratory, skin, wounds). Scumbags would wait for people to leave the "hospital" and then steal their drugs. It was unreal. The smell was unreal. The ambulances had to be guarded at all times because scum was breaking in and stealing the drugs and supplies. They would steal every last bandaid.

Events like that make you realize how fragile society is and how nasty things can get. I decided that I was not going to let myself depend on the government to help my family when we could prepare and help ourselves.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

kejmack said:


> swjohnsey, I think you are a phoney! Kingsville is not sitting on the coast the way that Galveston and New Orleans are. To say you rode out hurricane there is comparing apples to oranges. There has NEVER been a severe hurricane to hit Kingsville and it certainly never has been devastated the way NOLA was by Katrina and the way Bolivar was flattened by Ike.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is not to convince you anyway. If you want to cling to your delusions that society will be just fine after an EMP or other disaster, go right ahead. The rest of us would like to discuss the 72 hour observation.


That last hurricane to hit (near)Kingsville(Brett I think, its been a while) wasn't a bad one, I was just south of Corpus when it went through and all we had was a good rain. Life went on pretty much as normal within a day or two. No long term service outages or severe flooding.

Although it was a Cat 3 when it made landfall, it weakened rapidly.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

NOt that I dont beleive that that things won't fall apart in short order if it is known that the good ole uncle sugar isn't going to make it all better this time. BUT as far as looking at katrina and Sandy for your evidence keep in mind the smart people took all that advanced warning they had and got the heck out. So what you had left were the ones to stupid to pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel, The ones whos sole intention was to stick around and steal whatever wasn't nailed down. And the few who just plain had no means of escape and were stuck. So I"m not sure you can stand solidly by the 72 hour thing as for the boat well again it is so far a reporting from a small number of the whole. 

Now all that said I actually think the disentigration will happen much more quickly in any situation where its obvious that the Gov doesn't have control (whixh is why they drone on and on about how well prepared they are when they aint) and there is no help coming.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

jsriley5 said:


> NOt that I dont beleive that that things won't fall apart in short order if it is known that the good ole uncle sugar isn't going to make it all better this time. BUT as far as looking at katrina and Sandy for your evidence keep in mind the smart people took all that advanced warning they had and got the heck out. So what you had left were the ones to stupid to pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel, The ones whos sole intention was to stick around and steal whatever wasn't nailed down. And the few who just plain had no means of escape and were stuck. So I"m not sure you can stand solidly by the 72 hour thing as for the boat well again it is so far a reporting from a small number of the whole.
> 
> Now all that said I actually think the disentigration will happen much more quickly in any situation where its obvious that the Gov doesn't have control (whixh is why they drone on and on about how well prepared they are when they aint) and there is no help coming.


Playing devil's advocate...

Not everyone who 'stuck it out' had plans to loot or worse.

I have family on Long Island. All of my mom's family to be exact. No one of them left. They stayed to protect their own. Plus not everyone has the smarts to prep like we do or even have a BOL.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

True there were some that stayed strictly because they knew they'd lose everything they had if they didn't stay. Guess there are no absolutes I and many of us keep losing sight of that.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

goshengirl said:


> I've thought about this. What I wonder is, what will be the next phase, and how long will it take to kick in? At some point things will have to 'normalize' (although normal at that point will be different than what's considered normal now). But at some point people will need to build society again. When does that kick in? (and how long do we need to hunker down through the crazy stuff?)


I think once the "good guys" get rid of the majority of insurance salesmen that try to declare themselves dictators over mobs and gangs... (Sorry if anyone sells insurance, substitute used car salesman, politician, lawyer, etc as needed)... Just my 2 cents.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> Some folks won't miss a beat or a meal. You can bet the rich won't. For the rich this will be a golden opportunity.


Why do you say that? And what income do you consider rich? Just curious....


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

invision said:


> Why do you say that? And what income do you consider rich? Just curious....


A lot of " rich " people are rich because they came from a rich family . Getting by in life on Daddy's money isn't going to help one bit when the SHTF .


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

This past Tuesday we had a snow storm blow through which is normal for this time of year. But since it fell on Tuesday it delayed some deliveries to the local grocery stores and the Super WalMart. Some of the shelves were empty. There was not a banana to be found in the 3 produce sections here in town. What made it frustrating for some is Tuesday's are paydays and everyone does their grocery shopping on Tuesday. Life didn't stop for us just because there was 3 or snow inches of snow but obliviously it did for outside world. 

Stores only have 2-3 days on hand at any given time and when we have situations like Tuesday well there are alot of frustrated people. Life resumed Wednesday and deliveries were made but it was still frustrating. Thank goodness I was able to avoid the choas and waited until later in the week to shop but it was frustrating for me also. Like I said it is payday and grocery shopping. We have enough food in the house that I could have cooked all week and not been inconvenienced but I usually restock the lunchbox goodies on Tuesdays. I hate shopping so when I am out and have my list I am ready to get it over and done with. Punshiment to me was having to go back out later in the week and do grocery shopping. I had rather scrub toliets than grocery shop.

I am just going to have to breakdown and do a SAMs run (the closest one is over an hour away and I hate going there those people are crazy) but when I do I am going to stock the lunchbox goodie cabinet for a month or two so I don't have to deal with it.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Friknnewguy said:


> A lot of " rich " people are rich because they came from a rich family . Getting by in life on Daddy's money isn't going to help one bit when the SHTF .


And a lot of "rich" got that way by working their a$$es off. And some happened to be in the right place at the right time. And everything else in between. It's a broad brush to say "the rich" are this way or that way. There are smart people and dumb people and regular schmoes in all socioeconomic levels.

The ship and Katrina as examples differ from a broad SHTF event in that they were localized. I wonder, with chaos on a nation-wide scale, if maybe the animalistic nature might actually set in sooner. Kejmack pointed out how people call 911 when they don't get their McDonald's order right. How would these same people respond to a real calamity when there's no 911 to call?


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We usually have 48-72 hours notice of any big storm, but people always make a rush on the stores like they've been told they will be stranded for weeks not days. In the 72 hours after a storm hits, chaos ensues. More ppl come out during a storm than before, almost like they don't believe the weather forecast until it happening.

What I cld never understand about the looting post Katrina: what the hell is a big TV gonna help you do when you have no home to put it in? It's not like someone gonna buy it from you.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

kejmack said:


> It seems that 72 hours is the amount of time that it takes for societal collapse after a SHTF event.
> Can you imagine if we have a national catastrophe where there is no help coming? I'm willing to bet that things will fall apart even faster (especially in the urban centers).


I agree. In cities when there is NO water. When all the toilets overflow. When there is no way to cook what food you may have. When it is totally dark. When there is no phone, internet or cell phone. When parts of the city are burning and no one is fighting the fires.

Oh yes, people will NOT be calm. Many will be frozen with fear and hopelessness. Many will take advantage of the situation.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

dixiemama said:


> What I cld never understand about the looting post Katrina: what the hell is a big TV gonna help you do when you have no home to put it in? It's not like someone gonna buy it from you.


Simple...greed, stupidity, and lack of a moral compass. For people that are jacking TVs in a hurricane they have no concept of what is happening to them and they're blinded by the sudden ease of theft. These are people that steal anyway now it's just easier because Wally World doesn't have any storefront windows. It's sad really.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

kejmack said:


> swjohnsey, I think you are a phoney! Kingsville is not sitting on the coast the way that Galveston and New Orleans are. To say you rode out hurricane there is comparing apples to oranges. There has NEVER been a severe hurricane to hit Kingsville and it certainly never has been devastated the way NOLA was by Katrina and the way Bolivar was flattened by Ike.
> 
> The purpose of this thread is not to convince you anyway. If you want to cling to your delusions that society will be just fine after an EMP or other disaster, go right ahead. The rest of us would like to discuss the 72 hour observation.


You need to get yourself a map and do a little research.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

swjohnsey said:


> You need to get yourself a map and do a little research.


I did look at the map AND I went to the National Weather Service archives! You are inland and you have never taken a direct hit from a severe hurricane. Stop wasting our time.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> We usually have 48-72 hours notice of any big storm, but people always make a rush on the stores like they've been told they will be stranded for weeks not days. In the 72 hours after a storm hits, chaos ensues. More ppl come out during a storm than before, almost like they don't believe the weather forecast until it happening.
> 
> What I cld never understand about the looting post Katrina: what the hell is a big TV gonna help you do when you have no home to put it in? It's not like someone gonna buy it from you.


LOL I never understood the TV thing either.

I have been thinking about the timeline if we were to have some kind of nationwide catastrophe like an EMP. Something that is TEOTWAWKI. I am thinking that it will take 24 hours for the "low information voters" to really figure out what is happening and that would be my last window of opportunity.

My worst case scenario is that I'm in San Antonio or Austin when something happens and I need to get home. I figure I have 24 hours to get out of there.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

kejmack said:


> I did look at the map AND I went to the National Weather Service archives! You are inland and you have never taken a direct hit from a severe hurricane. Stop wasting our time.


Kingsille is about 5 miles from Baffin Bay. The bay comes up to the back fence of NAS Kingsville. We are inland. I have lived in Kingsville since 1961 and along the gulf coast from Harlingen to Palacious since 1953. I have been through many hurricanes. I don't remember the name of it but one came directly over Kingsville and including the eye. Don't waste my time. Go watch the nuts on Doomsday Preppers.


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

72 hours or less might be right for uprooted, densely populated, desperate people who realize no help is coming quick...like the folks on the ship. I'd hope rural and suburban communities would last longer, especially if they prepped ahead of time. Knowing your neighbors and spreading the word is key, a tight group seems like it would be a less appealing target for predators.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

cnsper said:


> What did you think happened when you ran out of TP and Beer?


vract: vract: vract:


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

I'd like to interrupt this thread to remind folks that the 'ignore' function is a great feature that helps us all enjoy our Prepared Society forum experience. In fact, it's helping me out right now... 

Now back to our regularly scheduled posting.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Gians said:


> 72 hours or less might be right for uprooted, densely populated, desperate people who realize no help is coming quick...like the folks on the ship. I'd hope rural and suburban communities would last longer, especially if they prepped ahead of time. Knowing your neighbors and spreading the word is key, a tight group seems like it would be a less appealing target for predators.


Yeah, I live in a sparsely populated area. I have wondered if we could pull together enough to protect the community. I think a lot of it comes down to leadership. I noticed with Katrina that people who have a "higher power" seemed to hold it together a lot better.

I do feel sorry for the urban people.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

The 72 hours, of course, is the time after a disaster FEMA estimated it would take for relief to arrive. I guess thats as good a rule of thumb as any for the general public to prepare themselves for to be on their own during that first 72 hours. On day one everyone is shocked that the event, whatever it was, happened. By day two the fear has set in as the rumor mill is cranked up, and then by day three the anger begins to set in because FEMA and all that relief hasn't arrived like everyone believed. Then all during that first 72 hours there are the opportunists working away trying to take advantage of the situation, like looters, for instance.

That cruise ship event mystifies me. OK, they didn't have any power. But there was a Captain and a trained crew. There was plenty of food, and the fact that the normal kitchen was not operable doesn't mean there were still a massive amount of food that could of been eaten that didn't require cooking. Or that there wasn't gas grills that could have been set up in an orderly fashion to prepare simple but hot meals as long as they could.

There was plenty of bedding for everyone, and sleeping out on deck isn't so bad. Certainly awnings could have been erected if the sun was too hot or more clothing provided if it were too chilly. Water was an issue, it seems, but how many thousands of bottle of water does a cruise ship carry? It must be tons!

I believe there was a failure of leadership on that boat, and no one or group from the passengers stepped forward to provided any "unofficial" leadership. I have to wonder how many veterans were on that boat. How many police officers, firefighters, and other emergency service people. Nurses, doctors. From the news reports it appears that no one stepped up.


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## OHprepper (Feb 21, 2012)

kejmack said:


> I did look at the map AND I went to the National Weather Service archives! You are inland and you have never taken a direct hit from a severe hurricane. Stop wasting our time.


Kej, it isnt worth your time. Stop feeding the troll, please!


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Jez, I haven't heard if the refrigeration worked. If not, then a lot of food would spoil. Something for all of us to think about. This is why we ordered a propane refrigerator.

A ship with 4,000 people struggling for basic necessities for four days. Now make that 40,000 or 400,000 people struggling for four days, four weeks, four months..... All a person has to do is to take a small situation and extrapolate it over population to have an idea of the ramifications of an event. 

Unfortunately, the "head in the sand" coupled with "it can't happen to me" is on an even larger scale.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I have an interesting tidbit. I've been a member of this board for a bit over three years and the new troll just joined and already has half the number of my post counts. 

I hope when I post I have something of value to say.... well.... most of the time. I'm not sure this particular one meets that criteria. But, what the heck - I feel better!


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

It really depends what kind of people you are delaing with.
Duirng WW2 Germans endured incredible harships , betaings, murder, rape, forced starvation etc..

http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/sginferno/sgi07.html


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Country Living said:


> Jez, I haven't heard if the refrigeration worked. If not, then a lot of food would spoil. Something for all of us to think about. This is why we ordered a propane refrigerator.
> 
> A ship with 4,000 people struggling for basic necessities for four days. Now make that 40,000 or 400,000 people struggling for four days, four weeks, four months..... All a person has to do is to take a small situation and extrapolate it over population to have an idea of the ramifications of an event.
> 
> Unfortunately, the "head in the sand" coupled with "it can't happen to me" is on an even larger scale.


Country - make the numbers more realistic - 5,300,000 in Atlanta area, which is 9th largest in US... Now shift it to the 5th largest Houston at 6,000,000. Now the top 3 - Chicago @ 9MM, LA @ 13MM, NY @ 19MM

Yeah I agree with you...


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> That cruise ship event mystifies me. OK, they didn't have any power. But there was a Captain and a trained crew. ...
> 
> I believe there was a failure of leadership on that boat, and no one or group from the passengers stepped forward to provided any "unofficial" leadership.


Couldn't agree more, Jez. First, this is not the first time a cruise ship has become stranded for one reason or another. Have these big companies learned nothing? Even if it's highly unlikely, wouldn't they - dare I say it? - actually _prepare _for an "event"? :hmmm:

Second, I haven't heard a thing from any reports that it was anything other than uncomfortable & unpleasant. As far as I know, no one was hurt. Yeah, your vacation was ruined, but I think you'll survive. Yet now some of these "traumatized" passengers have already file lawsuits...? Oy.


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## Attila (Jan 30, 2011)

The last bad hurricane to hit south Texas was Allen in 1980. I moved to Corpus right after Allen. Hurricane Allen was downplayed by the press, but I was told by people that stay that it was hellish.

Kingsville is inland what thirty miles or so? Would get high wind and lots of rain, but no storm surge.

As far as the parasite segment of the population goes it works like this: when the lights go out, that's when the parasites get them some bricks and go shopping for new big screen idiot boxes and bling. Those walking turds don't really even need is for the lights to go out to become animals. Look at the mayhem and murder in Chicago. Or look at Detroit to see what Mr. Lo has done there.

Go to Taki's Magazine and read this article by John Derbyshire: http://takimag.com/article/the_talk_nonblack_version_john_derbyshire#axzz2L6mFllJU Derbyshire was fired from National Review because of this non-pc article, even thought he backed up his claims with references.

We have come to the point in our history where those who work for a living are being overwhelmed by those who vote for a living.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Kingsville is south of Corpus right down the coast from Corpus Christi. Elevation at the depot is 168' so we are not likely to get a storm surge.


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## Attila (Jan 30, 2011)

Exactly. Maybe a little closer to the coast than Alice or Refugio. I love Corpus Christi, and Port A even better. Best part of the Texas gulf coast.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Friknnewguy said:


> A lot of " rich " people are rich because they came from a rich family . Getting by in life on Daddy's money isn't going to help one bit when the SHTF .


Wow... Really? Like I said define rich... I agree there are some individuals that got daddy's money but most of the 1% worked for it...

I have a living trust valued to be multiple millions, I only get it when both my parents die. I started out working in a call center, and have made it to what is 1%. Although being in the 1% mathematically I don't consider myself rich... Those that I do know that are "rich" - (my definition is $1MM in salary, $1MM in liquid assets, and multiple millions invested) are all planning for the future... Either staying in country prepared like I am, or moving out of country... Of the handful of them I do know that are planning to stay, none of them are looking to be dictators, they are like me, wanting to survive and willing to help rebuild when needed...


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## fishparts2003 (Jan 21, 2013)

......ignore this


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

First of all y'all need to stop and think about something. Depending on the mentality of the people in the area where you live will depend on how they react when disaster strikes. If they are used to doing and fending for themselves then they are more apt not to riot and get ugly. However, if you have a population that is dependent on the government for their survival unually 90% of the time this group is unprepared and expect the government to step in and fix things right away. They have no concept of the fact that food and water is not in some warehouse down the street but 300-400 miles away. They can't think outside of the government box.

We have lived along the gulf coast from Houston to panhandle of Florida including NOLA. When Alicia hit Houston (I believe is was 1983) life went on. People went to work even though downtown Houston had section closed because the class was so deep they had to bring in bulldozers and scoop the glass up. When Opal came ashore in, we lived inland about 70 miles but we took a direct hit and life went on. I reported to work at the hospital where I was employed and worked with emergency lights and a generator. When a cat 1storm sent squalls across NOLA the streets flooded, hubby still drove across town to teach school and I headed off to work also because that is what we do. However, the general population gathered around and had hurricane parties that lasted well into the night while the storm was blowing across the area even though they were urged to move in doors or go to shelters. They complained the loudest the next day because it took pretty much all day to get the power retored.

When people who used to fending for themselves get displaced they get frustrated because there is so much redtape to cut through to collect on insurance and to get help in order to move on. Now when people who are on government aid get displaced they get ugly becuase they expect things to be handed to them. They don't care that they are thousands of other people in line right next to them. All they care about is getting what they see is due them.

So yes some areas will go on with life because they will pull themselves up by their bootstraps and march on because that is what they do. And yes there will be some areas that will collapse withing 72 hours because they have no clue how to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and march on. Some will turn to looting, some will standing in front of the TV cameras yelling, crying and carrying on like there is no tomorrow and many will loose their lives. But many will carry on. It is all matter of location and mentality or in more basic terms moral and ethics.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

fishparts2003 said:


> ......ignore this


Did you mean to ignore this post?


invision said:


> Wow... Really? Like I said define rich... I agree there are some individuals that got daddy's money but most of the 1% worked for it...
> 
> I have a living trust valued to be multiple millions, I only get it when both my parents die. I started out working in a call center, and have made it to what is 1%. Although being in the 1% mathematically I don't consider myself rich... Those that I do know that are "rich" - (my definition is $1MM in salary, $1MM in liquid assets, and multiple millions invested) are all planning for the future... Either staying in country prepared like I am, or moving out of country... Of the handful of them I do know that are planning to stay, none of them are looking to be dictators, they are like me, wanting to survive and willing to help rebuild when needed...


I hope not because you have no idea how many of the people on this board are in a similar situation. Not with the trust, although that would be nice; but, staying here and bugging in, and will be a part of the rebuilding.


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

invision said:


> Wow... Really? Like I said define rich... I agree there are some individuals that got daddy's money but most of the 1% worked for it...
> 
> I have a living trust valued to be multiple millions, I only get it when both my parents die. I started out working in a call center, and have made it to what is 1%. Although being in the 1% mathematically I don't consider myself rich... Those that I do know that are "rich" - (my definition is $1MM in salary, $1MM in liquid assets, and multiple millions invested) are all planning for the future... Either staying in country prepared like I am, or moving out of country... Of the handful of them I do know that are planning to stay, none of them are looking to be dictators, they are like me, wanting to survive and willing to help rebuild when needed...


That's the point I was trying to make , this guy stated something stupid about the rich will be ok , but he offered no evidence to back up that claim . Some rich are prepared and some are not . Some poor are prepared and some are not . I don't think his statement made any sense . I wasn't disputing your point at all. I can't define what the Hell this this douchebag was trying to say , why ask me ?


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

invision said:


> Wow... Really? Like I said define rich... I agree there are some individuals that got daddy's money but most of the 1% worked for it...


Invision, why are you so jealous of "rich" people? Who cares how they got it? YOU have just as much opportunity as the rest of us in this country. That class warfare stuff is exactly what the liberals use to control "low information voters"...ie, people who don't think for themselves.

According to Forbes magazine, only 30% of wealthy got theirs through inheritance. *That means 70% earned it!!! *So, go out and earn yours and stop being so jealous and petty.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Transplant, Alicia was a rain event. There was no huge storm surge, no devastating winds. When I started the thread, I was talking about a total nationwide catastrophic event like an EMP or such. I was using the example of micro-events like the Carnival Cruise and Katrina to illustrate my observation that it onlly takes 72 hours for people to start behaving like animals even in a situation where they know help is coming. 

This thread has degenerated to a troll being an idiot and another poster bashing the rich. All I wanted to do was talk about the timeline for a castrophic event.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

The trolls have won!
Kejmack I think you misunderstood invision
and invision misunderstood friknnewguy 
Then again maybe I misuderstood all of you all


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Lota fragile egos here.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Swjohnsey is a Fed agent provocateur.
Ignore him.

Sorry badge, you're busted.:gtfo::banhim:
Scram.nobody's going to blow anything up in here.


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> The trolls have won!
> Kejmack I think you misunderstood invision
> and invision misunderstood friknnewguy
> Then again maybe I misuderstood all of you all


Yes sir , I think you might be correct . I didn't bash anybody , unless you count calling the troll a douchebag , but I stand by that statement . I was questioning the troll and invision jumped on me and then everything went to Hell . For the record I'm neither rich or poor so I'm not in a position to bash either . I work my ass off , my modest home , and both my cars are paid for and I'm saving for all three of my girls college funds, thats pretty damn good in my book ! Geez how do things get so confused ?


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

All I wanted to do was talk about the timeline for a castrophic event.

*
Boy did that ever get lost! *


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Back to the OP ... 

:admin"


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Since we're finally back on topic.

I agree with my fellow Texan (the one who makes sense, not the troll) that we can take any event and extrapolate it and hopefully learn the lessons before an event occurs that impacts us. That is an exercise my spouse and I do on a quasi-regular basis. Because of this thread (thanks, kejmack) a lesson learned for me is to do it more often since most of the lessons are portable between situations. We're already taking steps to eliminate the impact of extended outages on us that would adversely affect most people.

My concern has always been too many people simply ignore the probability (not possibility) of a significant event or, worst of all, have plans to just wait for the gubment to fix everything. Several years ago I was having a casual conversation with a couple of women and I asked what they would do in case of an event (I'm shortening the conversation) and one of them looked me in the eye and said she would come to my place. I told her that was not happening - she would not get past the gate. She looked shocked and asked if I would seriously turn her away in her time of need. I told her that her lack of preparation would not be my problem. She has the basic idea what she needs to do and five years later her only plan is to infringe on someone else's plan.

*Since it's taking me 30 minutes to write this I think I'll also address what I can of Dixie's question.*
In our preparedness plan we figure (excluding an EMP) the first 24 hours everyone will be scratching their head. The first few hours are those magic hours that if you need something that is your window. At about 24 to 48 hours the stores will be empty. Then the magic 72 hour is when panic and irrational behavior (e.g. looting) begins. If you're not where you need to be for the duration of the event, it's too late at 72 hours.

An emergency is only something for which you did not prepare. The goal is to have a plan that is portable across events so you don't get caught in something you can't handle.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Magus said:


> Swjohnsey is a Fed agent provocateur.
> Ignore him.
> 
> Sorry badge, you're busted.:gtfo::banhim:
> Scram.nobody's going to blow anything up in here.


Yeah the whole I'm not a prepper just an adventurer line was odd. Remo Williams.....you've been busted!!


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

And I agree.... the first 24 is for getting things you might be lacking or holding off on. Like gas or fresh milk. After that, all bets are off till order is restored or there is a break in the madness.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I was invited over here but. . . ban me. I make y'all look like idiots. Y'all can find a conspiracy behind every bush. BWAHAHAHA!!!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

kejmack said:


> It seems that 72 hours is the amount of time that it takes for societal collapse after a SHTF event. It happened with Katrina and it happened on that cruise ship out in the Gulf of Mexico.
> 
> Both times, people were described as behaving like "animals" within 72 hours. I think it is intriguing that both times the people knew that help was coming. They only had to hold it together until TPTB could get them to safety.
> 
> Can you imagine if we have a national catastrophe where there is no help coming? I'm willing to bet that things will fall apart even faster (especially in the urban centers).


In case everyone has forgotten, which apparently they have, here is the OP. Now we're slapping around a rich/poor argument and throwing in trolls for a little extra drama. We can get back on track or end the discussion now.

Your choice.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I think one of the big differences between a local, short term event (like a storm) and a long term nation-wide event is with the short term the would-be bad guys know that the law will get them in a few days. Once everyone knows the situation is long term with much lower odds of ever having to pay for breaking laws the law-breakers will really come out in force.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

swjohnsey said:


> I was invited over here but. . . ban me. I make y'all look like idiots. Y'all can find a conspiracy behind every bush. BWAHAHAHA!!!


I make you look like dinner on a plate with an apple crammed in your pie hole.
scram FED. your aftershave is a dead give away!


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Sorry kejmack ...

Closed


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