# Analyzing possible homestead locations.



## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

I've started doing some research to determine where I want my homestead to be located. I'm trying to be methodical in my approach, and research a lot of different factors.

Basically, it comes down to... Where in the world do I want to spend the rest of my life?

So I started with the biggest locastion, the Earth, and will work my way down to the smallest location, the actual land. I know I'm going to stay in the USA, if it weren't for the world's political and economic situation, I might want to retire somewhere else like the Philippines, but I think that there's too many problems with that idea.

I'm also sure I want to stay in Texas, but my other options are Oklahoma, Arkansas, or Missouri.

Currently I live in Dallas County which has a population of 2,416,014 
( according to the last census, and I'm sure it's inaccurate ); with a total area of 880 square miles of land, and 29 square miles of water. According to my math, that's 2,745.47 people per square mile. Not a great population density considering how many are unprepared for any sort of emergency. Ouch...

Compare this to Anderson County, Texas, which is larger than Dallas County at 1,071 square miles of land, and 7 square miles of water. It has a population of 58,458, which gives a population density of 54.58 PPSM ( people per square mile ). Wikipedia info has the population density at 51, but I think my math is correct.

I know this is going to vary per square mile, but this average is a good benchmark.

Population density is only one criteria I'm going to use to find my homestead location. I'm still working on some of those criteria, and doing a lot of research. All I know is even if there is no world changing disasters, I've grown to hate living in this city. There are too many people here...

My one big concern is running out of time...


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

only 56 per sq mile in the state of Arizona. And the bulk of those live in the Phoenix area. We do have about a million come across the border per year though.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> I've grown to hate living in this city. There are too many people here...


About 15 years ago I moved from a city of over a 1,000,000 to a town that averages around 25,000 people. Couldn't be happier. But even now, from time to time I wonder if I shouldn't relocate again to an even smaller place. I am fortunate to have a job that can employ me anywhere in the state but my family has certain needs/wants too. So for now this is where my car is parked. Good luck with your relocation.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug (Jan 27, 2009)

definitly don't look around out here in the Ozarks......terrible, terrible place to be......nothin' to see or do here..........move along.............don''t come back now ya hear........


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

There's very few people in the mountain west. Along NM, CO UT WY you can find plenty of wide open spaces. Not lots of water everywhere but plenty of space.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

rabidcoyote666 said:


> definitly don't look around out here in the Ozarks......terrible, terrible place to be......nothin' to see or do here..........move along.............don''t come back now ya hear........


Unless it's changed since my last visit, the Ozarks seemed nice to me.  It's on my list...


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

I'd look South and/or East of Dallas.
Why? If you go a couple of counties away, the land is much cheaper. Think of I-35 as the dividing line between the wet and dry parts of Texas. Do you want to worry about water issues in a BOL? I don't. 
You probably also want to pick an area about equidistant from Dallas and Houston. No need to move away from a big population in Dallas only to be nearer a bigger population in Houston.


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## TheRiver (Mar 31, 2012)

rabidcoyote666 said:


> definitly don't look around out here in the Ozarks......terrible, terrible place to be......nothin' to see or do here..........move along.............don''t come back now ya hear........


I agree rabid the Ozarks are a bad choice! Bahahahaha and next to a river in the Ozarks is the worst! Lololol


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

@Marcus - Yes, I've really been thinking about East Texas, maybe the Central Texas area. Palestine which is in Anderson County is 108 miles southeast of Dallas, and 153 miles north of Houston. Which isn't the best, but I just don't if there's any good areas that aren't going to be a couple of hours drive from a major population center. I thought about Alaska, but I don't do cold that well. I really want a somewhat remote area. Anyway, I'm still looking and researching.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

TheRiver said:


> I agree rabid the Ozarks are a bad choice! Bahahahaha and next to a river in the Ozarks is the worst! Lololol


You're going about this all wrong. The more you say the Ozarks are bad, the more you try to convince me that it's bad, the more I think.... hhmmmmmm.... the Ozarks might be a good place. 

So time to do some research on the Ozarks. Thanks everybody...


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## DKRinAK (Nov 21, 2011)

I would only add that knowing major population centers some distance away.

I would like to think 300 miles is a good start for a minimum safe distance from a 'urban center'. It does no good to move out away from the city, if the city is going to come looking for you - and your goods.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Zanazaz said:


> @Marcus - Yes, I've really been thinking about East Texas, maybe the Central Texas area. Palestine which is in Anderson County....


Palestine is beautiful, but there's also a number of resorts/timeshares in the area. I'd look more towards Lufkin or Nacogdoches where there's plenty on woods to hide stuff.

I grew up in Central Texas so I'd either look east or west. East has the advantages of more water and more woods. West is drier, a bit higher in elevation so it's cooler in the winter, but land prices are crazy high, especially around Kerrville/Fredericksburg and the Highland lakes. 
The problem you have going west is getting away from Austin & San Antonio without going so far west as to be in the really dry areas. If you go east, you're not going to be more than 100 miles from Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Waco, or Bryan/College Station.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Marcus said:


> Palestine is beautiful, but there's also a number of resorts/timeshares in the area. I'd look more towards Lufkin or Nacogdoches where there's plenty on woods to hide stuff.
> 
> I grew up in Central Texas so I'd either look east or west. East has the advantages of more water and more woods. West is drier, a bit higher in elevation so it's cooler in the winter, but land prices are crazy high, especially around Kerrville/Fredericksburg and the Highland lakes.
> The problem you have going west is getting away from Austin & San Antonio without going so far west as to be in the really dry areas.* If you go east, you're not going to be more than 100 miles from Austin, San Antonio, Houston, Waco, or Bryan/College Station*.


Yeah, this is a problem, but I think I'm going to have to deal with it. The land in West Texas is cheaper, but like you said too dry. The Rio Grande area has some good prices, but again too dry, and way too close to the Mexican border. I've ruled that area out.


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## ApocAndy (Aug 2, 2012)

I think about it like this. All those people in big cities are eventually going to start moving out in search of food. Kinda like "The Walking Dead". First place I'd think to hit would be a farm. Choose your place wisely.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Zanazaz said:


> I've started doing some research to determine where I want my homestead to be located. I'm trying to be methodical in my approach, and research a lot of different factors.
> 
> Basically, it comes down to... Where in the world do I want to spend the rest of my life?
> 
> ...


A couple criterial I used:

Population Density,
Distance to the closest high density areas 
Distance to major traffic arteries
Length and Harshness of winter (for me a deterrent for refugees, but also a consideration in terms of the length of the growing season)
Natural barriers to migration (hills, mountains, deserts, lakes, rivers, etc)
Availability of water, wood, arable land, wild game
History of regularly occurring natural disasters, AND intensity.
AND local culture (dependence vs self-reliance...)

As far as pop density consider looking at these two maps which detail densities:

1) The first is for fun but contains accurate pop density info: http://www.mapofthedead.com/map/
2) http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/defining.america/map/index.html?hpt=hp_c2


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I know you are heart set on life in the warmer climates of the US but here is a consideration: the cold weather might pose some of its own survival issues, but personally the BREATHER that being snowed in may provided to a world gone insane is well worth it IMHO.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Padre said:


> I know you are heart set on life in the warmer climates of the US but here is a consideration: the cold weather might pose some of its own survival issues, but personally the BREATHER that being snowed in may provided to a world gone insane is well worth it IMHO.


Trust me Padre, I've considered this. Another criteria I'm using is I want to be close to relatives. If I move too far away, visits would be few and far between.


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Hey don't let those guys bad mouth Missouri to ya
It doesn't get any better .
As far as all the thorn bushes you can wear heavy thick hard winter pants all summer.
And you get used to all the bugs.
Mosquito tick chigger wasp varieties including one that is 2"long.
And with all the little ones well you can get used to looking like hamburger from the knee down.
As far as karst topography we don't usually have more than a few houses per year fall into the ground.
New Madrid fault that's all pooeey it hasn't gone off in years.
And surely the Russians know all those silos are empty now.
Now I will admit the air gets a bit unbreathable when it gets over 90% humidity and 100 plus degrees.
On those days you can easily find a creek and evict the snapping turtles snakes and mud puppies and have a cool place to sit and fight for air.
Our death rate from wildfires is only a little bit above the national average.
Fact is I haven't seen more than 300 acres on fire all year.
Some folks worry about the painters screaming all night but I think it sounds like music and if you have more than 4 dogs that weigh 100 lbs ea they don't come into the actual yard itself.
We haven't even had very many idiots turn unfed wolf hybrids loose to start mating with abandoned dogs this year.
And when this does happen cell phones make it real easy to find the dead child and use the blood trail track then use the cell phones again to round up enough buckshot guns to bring them down before they make more than a few kills.
Very few people are actually completely killed by these wonderful new buffalo/cow hybrids.
The razorback hogs from Arkansas are only a fad I expect them to go back to Arkansas any day.
Now that Joplin is almost finished being rebuilt from the tornado it really looks nice.
So the tornado kinda did us a favor.
It sure is interesting how you can find pieces of the old hospital and X-ray pictures in the middle of the woods I like that it makes feeding the cows interesting.
So all this considered Missouri is great.

Shall I save you a chair at supper I just found something crawling out of a log and it died after only 3 rounds so there shouldn't be to many pellets in the stew and I have learned not to get the stew off the bottom of the pot cause the lead sinks.?
Hey&hellip; where did every body go?


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh yea recent update the local newsman says they hardly ever find very large collections of human turds floating on lake Tanycomo because most of the ceptic laws have changed and they have caught more than half
The illegal dumpers.
So yes please move here.


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## MadMartiggan (Aug 17, 2012)

I am a Real Estate Broker by Jefferson City Mo and there are great tracks of land with Ponds Creek and even Lakes on them that are very reasonablenand cheap and htere are not alot of "Visable" Preppers around. We are on the Missouri River and close to Lake of the Ozarks and main Hwys. If interested let me know.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Jimthewagontraveler said:


> Hey don't let those guys bad mouth Missouri to ya
> It doesn't get any better .
> 
> As far as all the thorn bushes you can wear heavy thick hard winter pants all summer.
> ...


Thanks for the info.


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

Newton County, Arkansas has a population density of 10 people per square mile. Lots of water and timber and an interesting micro climate. No railroads, one stop light and two grocery store in the whole county but reasonable access to larger towns with more stuff outside the county. Pretty good natural barriers to migration and very scenic. Lot of nice, down to earth people. Racially homogeneous and votes 2/3rds Republican. Low crime and lower than Arkansas averages for tornadoes and earthquakes. Pretty good per acre prices for real estate.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Wanderer, that sounds nice. I have relatives in Arkansas as well. It's third on my list.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Here is my two cents worth with a bit more to come once I get it done.

I have been investigating where I want my BOL to be and I have settled on CO. and I'll tell ya why.

1. You can be an hours drive away from population during regular life and because of terrain it could be several hours depending on time of year.
2. LOTS of natural barriers with the mountains.
3. Land is cheap for large amounts. (I have found 100+ acres for less than 100k)
4. Lots of property have some type of water flowing through it year round.
5. You can find a location reasonably near a town of about 10-20k but still be remote enough to be hard to find.
6. Decent growing season, even longer if you have a good greenhouse.
7. Terrain can be used to help provide natural defesive and offensive capabilities.
8. Land usually has lots of wildlife for hunting.
9. You can find plenty that is far enough from area's that are considered mass exodus routes.
10. Probably more that I can't think of right now.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

I chose Missouri, but I am Active Duty and am limited in my choices as to where I can go. 

A Good Buddy of mine that lived and worked in the Nuc world in the Military said that as soon as he retires he is moving to the Tennesse Hill Country. According to maps and plans that he has seen in his career the Tennesse Hill Country is the safest place to be in the event of the big boom!


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

1969cj-5 said:


> A Good Buddy of mine that lived and worked in the Nuc world in the Military said that as soon as he retires he is moving to the Tennesse Hill Country. According to maps and plans that he has seen in his career the Tennesse Hill Country is the safest place to be in the event of the big boom!


The way I see it, if we get nuked then location isn't going to be that big of a deal with the exception of impacts. Fallout maybe but impacts it wont make a huge difference as to where you live. Stay away from the obvious locations like major military, coastals, capitals, or THE capital, or the major city centers across the country. After that I would be looking at what is left for survival afterwards. So far over all I am leaning towards the mountains and that region of the country. If you pick correctly the mountains can even work as a natural buffer for things too, and so on...


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Yeah, CO is nice, but I'm not a big fan of the cold. I'm sure I could get used to it, but I don't have many kinfolk in CO. One cousin and her husband, IIRC....


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

What we looked for was 20 acre minimum with limited access. One road leading to the area we live in with only one dirt road leading to the property. Geographically defensible. Infinite water supply, fertile soil, adjoining state or federal lands or park. Abundant natural resources harvestable wild foods, plant, game and fish. 

What we got was a place on the military crest of a 900 foot hill with only one two lane highway coming to our area. The nearest small town is just over twenty miles away with the nearest high density population just over a hundred miles away. One lane dirt road with cliffs several hundred feet high on one side and hundred foot drop offs on the other creating several choke points leads to our property. The front of our property has dense forest with a huge retaining pond 20 feet deep and ten feet wide so that the only vehicle access is the 150 yard drive way. The other side of the property is an 800 foot bluff that is impossible to climb. Surrounded by 900 acres of state land that in turn adjoins a million acres of pristine wilderness. 

With several small communities between us and the I-5 corridor with its high density populations over 100 miles away. The only access to this area will be blocked at several points long before the bug out hordes and refugees make it out this far. Those that do manage to get this far will feel like the Persians at the battle of Thermopylae should they decline the offer to move on. 

Having said all of that our place is a compromise. There are IMO more remote/secure locations east of the mountains where land is still fairly affordable at about a grand an acre. While the winters are harsher the growing season tends to be longer and has some of the most fertile soil in the country. Though water can be an issue and they of course do not have the abundance of sea food I am so fond of.


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

Wanderer0101 said:


> Newton County, Arkansas has a population density of 10 people per square mile. Lots of water and timber and an interesting micro climate. No railroads, one stop light and two grocery store in the whole county but reasonable access to larger towns with more stuff outside the county. Pretty good natural barriers to migration and very scenic. Lot of nice, down to earth people. Racially homogeneous and votes 2/3rds Republican. Low crime and lower than Arkansas averages for tornadoes and earthquakes. Pretty good per acre prices for real estate.


Well I'm also in Texas and I've been looking pretty hard in the eastern Oklahoma, northern Arkansas, southern Missouri area. Newton County became interesting to me when I looked at a temperature map and then stayed there for a week. Looking over the Grand Canyon of Arkansas is very pleasant. Guy down the road had a wind generator that produced all his electricity, deer in the front yard and bears roaming the hillside. The occasional Elk can be sighted not so far away. A whole lot different than Houston.


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

The Newton County area does ineed look nice. I've been checking properties online, and I really like what I see. I think it's moving up on my list.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

hey zan i have been doing this same research one of my main things is if the grid goes down then we risk possible powerplant meltdowns and with me being in memphis tn then going east is not an option for me

1969cj-5
unless hes living underground TN is not the place to be in a big boom incident. we have a bunch of reactors a huge nuclear waste storage facility that recieves deposits from all over the country and i dont think this would make for happy campin

zan 
my plan is to get 1 or two acres in north central arkansas and then try and get 5 or ten in idaho or utah


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## Jimthewagontraveler (Feb 8, 2012)

Ok zan I like you.
You have a chair by the fire.
P.S. you are falling behind on your share of the cord wood?


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## Londoner (Aug 24, 2012)

If you can find somewhere that even one other person knows about then you are potentially in trouble if that one person has a hungry family and a rifle.

People are your biggest danger


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Londoner said:


> If you can find somewhere that even one other person knows about then you are potentially in trouble if that one person has a hungry family and a rifle.
> 
> People are your biggest danger


Yeah, it's going to be impossible to keep it a secret. Even if someone doesn't know me, or where I live, locals or refugees will scout for locations and food. Every prepper needs to be ready for that.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Wanderer0101 said:


> Well I'm also in Texas and I've been looking pretty hard in the eastern Oklahoma, northern Arkansas, southern Missouri area. Newton County became interesting to me when I looked at a temperature map and then stayed there for a week. Looking over the Grand Canyon of Arkansas is very pleasant. Guy down the road had a wind generator that produced all his electricity, deer in the front yard and bears roaming the hillside. The occasional Elk can be sighted not so far away. A whole lot different than Houston.


Curious about the wind generator. As it is what we are currently researching as our source of sustainable power. Any idea what size he is using and how much power he is generating


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

LongRider said:


> Curious about the wind generator. As it is what we are currently researching as our source of sustainable power. Any idea what size he is using and how much power he is generating


To be honest I can't remember but I do know that he said he wished that he'd put in a bigger one, or maybe two of them. I believe what made it really work for him was that he was located right on the edge of the "Grand Canyon of Arkansas" with a pretty good drop of several hundred feet to the valley floor. I rented a cabin there for a week and there was almost always a breeze because of the temperature differential between our location and the valley floor.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Wanderer0101 said:


> I believe what made it really work for him was that he was located right on the edge of the "Grand Canyon of Arkansas" with a pretty good drop of several hundred feet to the valley floor. I rented a cabin there for a week and there was almost always a breeze because of the temperature differential between our location and the valley floor.


Thanks, basically the same reasons we are considering it. Think I'll start a wind power thread any input you have will be appreciated.


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## webeable (Aug 29, 2012)

rabidcoyote666 said:


> definitly don't look around out here in the Ozarks......terrible, terrible place to be......nothin' to see or do here..........move along.............don''t come back now ya hear........


Not to mention the banjos


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## TheRiver (Mar 31, 2012)

You have no idea how often I hear banjo jokes!


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

TheRiver said:


> You have no idea how often I hear banjo jokes!


My mother played the banjo. I have been thinking about learning. In fact I have been trying to convince my brother to learn so we can sit on opposite sides of the river and play dueling banjos! If that does not work I will learn to play the bag pipes and stand on a cliff over the river and play it for the floaters. Big grin.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

Zanazaz,
This real issue you have is drought. Both Texas and Oklahoma are well known for their droughts and so basing yourself in either location as a SHTF solution is begging for trouble. Arkansas and Missouri have drought issues as well but not as bad. Wherever you chose find a place with a large spring nearby or on a river that is fed by a number of large springs. If you cannot do that find a place with a very large hillside where you can harvest the entire area for rain water and store it in a number of large cisterns. At least if you then have a drought you can water your crops and animals.


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## TheRiver (Mar 31, 2012)

For your viewing pleasure. You can survive but a little humor goes a long way! http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8


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## TheRiver (Mar 31, 2012)

O.k. For some reason I can't delete the last post! Was suppose to link to YouTube vid. Links to main page. Sorry!


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

slobber
would lov eto play dueling banjos with ya.

And as for the bag pipes, don't forget to play one for me. I'm half Scott half Irish man.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

TheRiver said:


> O.k. For some reason I can't delete the last post! Was suppose to link to YouTube vid. Links to main page. Sorry!


See if this one works


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

TheRiver said:


> You have no idea how often I hear banjo jokes!


Funny we just bought "Deliverance" to add to the DVD library


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

deetheivy said:


> And as for the bag pipes, don't forget to play one for me. I'm half Scott half Irish man.


I am a good bit Scotch as well. And I believe that a man wearing a kilt, covered in hair from soles to crown, standing on top of a cliff, blowing the bag pipes would be a frightening... uh I mean inspiring thing to see as you round the bend in the river.

I asked a Scot playing the bagpipes one time how I could tell if someone were good at playing them. He told me I could not only the bag piper knows for sure! Grin. I firmly believe that is the instrument for me.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

right beside you, let them tell us we are wrong. And know I will play one for all of you.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

1969cj-5 said:


> I chose Missouri, but I am Active Duty and am limited in my choices as to where I can go.


I have to disagree with this statement.

During your career it might be a bit of an issue on getting to your location, but just like my best friend who is Active Duty Navy (easy we can all forgive him for that), he has a crap load of land up in South Dakota and he has been all over the world. But he got the land and has been working on getting it prepped and ready for years now so if things happen he has a place to go when he is stateside, and if it holds out he has his ideal location for when he reitres and can live at his BOL.

Never let your cuurent occupation be what restricts you. I own a store front business and currently live in Virginia but that isn't stopping me from getting prepped and working on getting my BOL in Colorado. I am WAY behind on my preps but that is only because I have been to lazy and letting my focus go on things of living in todays world....


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## Zanazaz (Feb 14, 2012)

Shammua, you make a good point. If I had a dollar everytime I heard or read about someone who says they can't prep like they want to because they can't afford to, well, I would have many dollars. A person should never limit themselves. If you have to make a few sacrifices to have money for preps then that's what you should do! Work a part time job, whatever... A homestead or BOL is not an impossible goal, unless a person makes it an impossible goal.


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