# If 2 is 1 and 1 is none then...



## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I have heard many of you smart folks use the adage "Two is one and one is none" in reference to tools and preps. Here's a question about that...

I have 2 camp stoves. Stove A is white gas and stove B is propane. If I run out of gas I can use stove B- as long as I have propane. BUT if stove A breaks and I am out of propane I am up a creek with out a paddle.

Is it wise for me to have 2 of each type of stove in case this happens? I store plenty of fuel for both right now. 

Please excuse my OCD. I want to replace my gas stove with a newer model and my OCD has me leaning to a second propane stove to match my current one. Trust me, it gets bad. Things HAVE to match and be in even numbers, even spacing and perfectly divided! :brickwall:


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

I'd suggest picking one fuel type and go with two of those. I chose propane because I already had some of the little camp canisters, and although I didn't have one at the time, I planned on getting one, the converter hose/attachment that lets the camp stove use my BBQ bottles. For me that is a big win, and now I have the converter hose.

Fuel storage is another part of the equation. I don't know how long the white gas stays good? Is it like kerosene which lasts decades? propane tanks have the advantage of being very durable and refillable, and it lasts for ages, so that was another factor that helped me choose propane over other camp stoves that burn either coleman fuel or even unleaded gasoline.


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Yeah grimm what he said ^^^^^

I pick up those bottles Everytime we go to a sporting goods store, if you go to Walmart a lot, pick up one Everytime you go, what 2.50 each. 

I used mine during the tornado power outage and one little can last a day and half, and we cooked a lot! I was surprised. You could also pick up one of those attachments that goes on the can itself if OCD is getting to ya before you can get the stove, they are about 30 bucks. I think.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Dakine said:


> I'd suggest picking one fuel type and go with two of those. I chose propane because I already had some of the little camp canisters, and although I didn't have one at the time, I planned on getting one, the converter hose/attachment that lets the camp stove use my BBQ bottles. For me that is a big win, and now I have the converter hose.
> 
> Fuel storage is another part of the equation. I don't know how long the white gas stays good? Is it like kerosene which lasts decades? propane tanks have the advantage of being very durable and refillable, and it lasts for ages, so that was another factor that helped me choose propane over other camp stoves that burn either coleman fuel or even unleaded gasoline.


LOL! The OCD side of me loves you! 
:kiss:


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

The coleman dual stove is great. And you can buy a propane attachment for it that makes it even more versatile. A stove you can run on 3 different fuels is handy.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Grimm said:


> LOL! The OCD side of me loves you!
> :kiss:


LOL!!! :beercheer:


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

ya know... I was just rethinking this. 

If it were me, I'd still stay with the propane camp stove (but CBL does make a really good point about tri-fuel stoves! but I dont know how much those models cost??)

but then you might be left saying, well what do I do with my cans (or bottles) of white gas? I'm pretty sure thats the same stuff that can be used in kerosene lanterns right? I buy a quart of kerosene when I'm at walmart and it's in stock, and like DJ said, I used to buy the little coleman cans all the time at walmart. There for ammo? buy a 2 pack, those things are like perpetually on sale at wally world... buying wet cat food? coleman cans. you'd be surprised how fast they accumulate and like DJ said, you are only spending another $2.50 so you really don't even miss it.

I got 4 hurricane lanterns (kerosene) on sale at Sportsmans Guide for $20 and I'd suggest looking there or other type camping outfitter supplier shops for that kind of deal. I'd also recommend staying away from wally world on that one. I saw them there, the exact same model, and not only were they the same price, they were missing pieces and if someone wasn't familiar with what they were supposed to have, they wouldn't even know it!

of course the down side of that is then you have 4 of them, which is great if it's zombie day and you're lighting the house in the PAW, but for now it's just more room taken up by something I don't need until later.


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## RevJammer (Apr 24, 2012)

If ya'll were serious about your OCD's... you would know that it's actually CDO (that way it's alphabetic order like it should be...)!!!


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## act5860 (Feb 9, 2013)

RevJammer said:


> If ya'll were serious about your OCD's... you would know that it's actually CDO (that way it's alphabetic order like it should be...)!!!


I agree, Rev


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Dakine said:


> ya know... I was just rethinking this.
> 
> If it were me, I'd still stay with the propane camp stove (but CBL does make a really good point about tri-fuel stoves! but I dont know how much those models cost??)
> 
> ...


Funny thing about my current gas stove is I had bought a propane convertor for it so I am set there. Maybe I'll get the propane stove and wait til I can find the 3 burner dual fuel stove on sale.

My current gas stove is a collectible in some circles because it is a 1950-1960s diamond series. Since I just saw the same stove sell for $300 on ebay I am thinking of selling it and buying a new one for less than 1/3 the cost. Actually, I'm thinking of selling and replacing all our comping gear. I have the full line of the diamond series Coleman gear in red and white- including the red 220 lantern that was made for sale in Canada.

Time to be practical.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

We keep things as uniform as possible.


2 cooking options- stove and outdoor grill; propane
. well... 3 actually but I'm not counting the electric range

I agree with Dakine. Propane, for me, is the best option. Easy to store and keeps forever.



Here are a few other things we standardize.

3 Dehydrators- same model
3 pressure canners- same model

Hunting rifles- same model, same caliber
Sporting rifles- same model, same caliber
Handguns- as above
3 of 4 recurve bows- same string length

3 Mikita cordless drills and a flashlight- all share the same battery type

It's always good to have back ups for parts..


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Coleman stoves and lanterns designed for coleman fuel will burn pump gas. MSR Whisperlite Intl will burn any liquid fuel, alcohol, gasoline, kerosene, diesel, jet fuel. The Whisperlite Universal will burn liquid or gas with proper adaptor. Most of my stuff will burn pump gas. I figure that will be the easiest fuel to get after the world ends.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Funny thing about my current gas stove is I had bought a propane convertor for it so I am set there. Maybe I'll get the propane stove and wait til I can find the 3 burner dual fuel stove on sale.
> 
> My current gas stove is a collectible in some circles because it is a 1950-1960s diamond series. Since I just saw the same stove sell for $300 on ebay I am thinking of selling it and buying a new one for less than 1/3 the cost. Actually, I'm thinking of selling and replacing all our comping gear. I have the full line of the diamond series Coleman gear in red and white- including the red 220 lantern that was made for sale in Canada.
> 
> Time to be practical.


well that is definitely a possibility, but something to consider is also the quality of the product.

case in point... new 5 gallon gas cans use an externally threaded nozzle, they are either plastic and made in china and very over-priced, or they are metal, made in maybe china, maybe somewhere else, to some euro spec thing, and to get the CARB version we can buy here in kommiefornia we have to pony up $45 per can (or more!)

but you can get metal jerry cans from WWII which are still rust free in good used condition for $15-20 on eBay. They just work better, they last longer, and they were made better.

If I had the vintage items you have, and they fetch that much on resale, I'd be asking... "why?" and maybe you're ahead of the game already with a more reliable product!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Lol, too funny, story of my life 
I have identical tractors even!
I really love multi fuel generators, stoves, etc. for this very reason.

Another way of pandering to my neurosis is with multi purpose items, a camp stove is pretty much just good for that but a free standing propane burner or even a torch have multiple uses with one fuel type. Not that I would not have the camp stove, just not ONLY the camp stove  I've said too much.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Dakine said:


> well that is definitely a possibility, but something to consider is also the quality of the product.
> 
> case in point... new 5 gallon gas cans use an externally threaded nozzle, they are either plastic and made in china and very over-priced, or they are metal, made in maybe china, maybe somewhere else, to some euro spec thing, and to get the CARB version we can buy here in kommiefornia we have to pony up $45 per can (or more!)
> 
> ...


If only I could find jerry cans that cheap on ebay!

The reason the Coleman gear goes that high is the demand for retro and vintage coolers/stove by the classic car culture. We got an offer on our Coleman gear at VLV 5 years ago when we were there to sell a car!

Its like the vintage Coke coolers people will spend hundreds for when they are just after the look.


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## Friknnewguy (Jun 30, 2012)

I love the ease of propane , just picked up a couple more cans this weekend .


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Hope you're sitting down Grimm. Two is one, one is none is so last Wednesday. Try out "an heir and a spare".  Seriously though, the more flexibility and the greater redundancy the more options you will have. Three identical multi fuel stoves might be ideal though probably a fiscal improbability.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Grimm said:


> If only I could find jerry cans that cheap on ebay!
> 
> The reason the Coleman gear goes that high is the demand for retro and vintage coolers/stove by the classic car culture. We got an offer on our Coleman gear at VLV 5 years ago when we were there to sell a car!
> 
> Its like the vintage Coke coolers people will spend hundreds for when they are just after the look.


I have had good luck finding the old style plastic jerry cans at second hand stores. Finding spouts and caps for all of them seems to be a problem. The spouts for the new cans work well enough on some of the old cans but finding the vent cap remains a problem.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Caribou said:


> Hope you're sitting down Grimm. Two is one, one is none is so last Wednesday. Try out "an heir and a spare".  Seriously though, the more flexibility and the greater redundancy the more options you will have. Three identical multi fuel stoves might be ideal though probably a fiscal improbability.


I'll remember that. 

But I do like the idea mentioned about a dual fuel stove with the propane convertor.


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## act5860 (Feb 9, 2013)

I've tried gov't (military) surplus stores all over my area and can't find any of the good old G.I. jerry cans or spouts for them. It's like they're extinct, like the dinosaurs.


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

act5860 said:


> I've tried gov't (military) surplus stores all over my area and can't find any of the good old G.I. jerry cans or spouts for them. It's like they're extinct, like the dinosaurs.


My surplus guy has about ten of them as you walk in the door of his shop. The name is Army Navy Surplus in Rogersville AL if you want to look him up. Does me right every time I go in there. I don't know what he's asking on them but he is more than willing to haggle.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Grimm said:


> I have heard many of you smart folks use the adage "Two is one and one is none" in reference to tools and preps. Here's a question about that...
> 
> I have 2 camp stoves. Stove A is white gas and stove B is propane. If I run out of gas I can use stove B- as long as I have propane. BUT if stove A breaks and I am out of propane I am up a creek with out a paddle.
> 
> ...


Have you considered two complementary stoves at all? One type that runs on propane that can be "powered" by both the mini-2lb canisters and the re-fillable 20lb bottles (or 40's or 100's).

The other type could be what many back-packers and motorcyclists use in the form of the MSR-fuel-container and stove. The MSR WhisperLite stove can use just about any fuel-type to produce heat










Finally, a non-mechanical stove that uses gel-based fuel or an old 1-gallon paint-can that has been pre-built to use sticks-n-twigs for cooking over would also work very well. Magus told me (on my other site) about road-cooking using a heavy-wall pot and putting the fire into the pot ...

Personally - at home I have 7 propane bottles (all 20-pounders) that feed my three back-yard BBQ's, my two table-top BBQ's and my two burner-stoves ... and my turkey-friers and my fish-friers (both are propane-based for outdoor use) ... and that doesn't count my cooking-gear that I have for backpacking, bicycle-riding and motorcycle-riding ...


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Grimm said:


> I have heard many of you smart folks use the adage "Two is one and one is none" in reference to tools and preps. Here's a question about that...
> 
> I have 2 camp stoves. Stove A is white gas and stove B is propane. If I run out of gas I can use stove B- as long as I have propane. BUT if stove A breaks and I am out of propane I am up a creek with out a paddle.
> 
> Is it wise for me to have 2 of each type of stove in case this happens? I store plenty of fuel for both right now.


I think keeping your options open is a the strategy to go with. And so, two stoves that used different fuels seems like a good idea. I love guns that are convertible to multiple calibers or can chamber multiple calibers without conversion. Take a S&W Governor (want one) it will take 410 shot shells, .45 ACP, and .45 Long Colt. The gun like a stove is a pretty durable good, and so chances are that the gun won't stop working, particularly if the stove like the gun has a pretty simple mechanical operation. The weakest links for both of these two items is "fuel". A Governor is about as useful as a large rock if you don't have ammo, just like the stove without fuel. So barring the gun or stove breaking its going to be a matter of finding that fuel. As we see with the current ammo crisis before a collapse when there is some functioning economy common calibers will sell out.

>>I would note--this is a PRE-COLLAPSE crisis, and therefore different from a post-collapse crisis (which is why the logic of using common calibers is inverted). It is not because there are not "enough" boxes of 9mm, 40, 5x62, etc; its because folks are stockpiling them, which means post collapse when you may be "shopping" at places other than stores you are more likely to find these calibers.<<

I digress, so just as the world is going to hell it is likely that you may not find .45 ACP but will be able to find .45 long colt or 410 shells. Similarly, your likelihood of finding SOME fuel you can burn in your stove increases each time you add a fuel capability. So I would double up on fuel, but not necessarily run out and by two of each stove.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

Grimm, I have an old Coleman Powerhouse two-burner (white gas) purchased in the summer of 1986...that old stove still works fine...I have blended white-gas and unleaded with it in the past, and it will work, but not worth a hoot on straight unleaded...I haven't even had to kit the pump yet! I did buy a propane conversion for it about 20 years ago...probably was around 15 bucks back then. I also have a Coleman dual-fuel back-pack stove, a 108K BTU propane double-burner outdoor stove, a single-mantle gas lantern which works pretty well on unleaded, btw, two small propane catalytic heaters (7k & 4K BTU), a 40K BTU propane air heater (needs electricity for internal fan) and two double-mantle propane lanterns. All the propane appliances I own (except the air heater) can be run off the disposables or bulk tanks with an adapter or a tree which a lantern can screw into on a bulk tank, then use hoses to attach other appliances. Our propane/gas lanterns are a back-up for SHTF as we have LED lighting and rechargeable batteries up the wazoo. The Coleman stoves and most any lanterns should pretty much be trouble-free, either propane or gas. Just get a pump kit or two for the white-gas/dual-fuel units, as they can have issues with cracked rubber plungers, but otherwise have been very reliable, in my experience.

I wouldn't let OCD make you have two of everything, unless needing redundancy is warranted, but for these stoves, I don't see the need...having appliances capable of using multiple fuels is nice, though. Oh, and don't forget spare mantles for lanterns...they last for months and months if handled with care, but having 3 or 4 spare sets (OK, make it 8 for OCD's sake......splurge a little here) is good insurance. Globes for the gas/propane lanterns...here's something you may want to have a spare or 2 of as well, however, my oldest propane lantern has had a spiral-fractured globe (crack runs from top to bottom in a spiral, about 1-1/2 times the diameter) for about 20 years from back in the day when we went camping a lot more often...it's still going, and I don't even have a carry/storage case for this lantern.

All the best to you and yours, Grimm.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I went the simple route. When the first propane grill crapped out (rusted parts) I converted it to wood. I have a new $100 gas grill w/sidecar and two tanks but like using my wood burner better. I keep two boxes of sticks (from small twigs to 2” diameter cut in 8” to 12” pieces) on the porch and use them for grilling. I’m single so a small fire can cook a burger or steak or vegetables easily. Percolated coffee to heating something up in cast iron, it works well and keeps you warm at the same time!

You can cut and burn bushes, downed limbs al sorts of yard debris. Just need to plan ahead and keep some cutup and dry for rainy weather.


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## Momturtle (Nov 2, 2009)

As was mentioned earlier in this thread that Coleman fuel/white gas can be used in Kerosene lamps - NO NO NO. That is a Malatov cocktail and will be more exciting than you want. Coleman fuel is gasoline and it is not something to be used in anything designed for kerosene. Can be used in Coleman lanterns and Coleman stoves.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Is it wise for me to have 2 of each type of stove in case this happens? I store plenty of fuel for both right now.


For every tool or piece of equipment I use I try to have an identical spare brand new in the box stored and replacement parts to repair the ones I am using. If something say one of the stoves goes completely tits up and I can not repair it I scavenge and keep every useable part off of the old stove and break out the one in storage. Than buy a new one to replace the one I took out of storage.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Many years ago I did some hitchhiking, Washington, Oregon and California and for cooking I just used a coffee can that I punched a few air holes near the base and some near the rim. It was amazing how fast I could get water to boil with just some dry leaves, twigs and small branches. So when I saw a Volcano Stove it made sense and we bought two of them. They can take a cast iron dutch oven or other pans and pots. A propane kit can be added but since we have so many trees around there is always plenty of fuel on hand. Why two? No OCD, it's so that when the fire dies down in one we can switch to a fresh fire in the other. There is a lid that can be purchased that makes it into a convection oven for cooking and baking. We are going to make a little shelter a short distance away from the house to be able to use it for cooking during power outages or if we run out of the propane which our kitchen stove runs on.


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