# Permanently Disabled



## Startingout-Blair

In December 2008, I had a bad backache. They sent me through an MRI and then told me not to move. They sent me to the emergency room. I had a disc in the middle of my back blow 6mm into my spine. I ended up having surgery which left me partially paralyzed in my left leg and in continuous terrible pain. I ended up losing my wife, house, job, career, and ability to walk without a cane (minimum). I moved back to PA and I am doing fine financially, as well as have a nice place to live (thanks to family). I have become extremely interested in homesteading, self-reliance, self-defense, etc. Problem is, due to my disability, it is really tough trying to be self-reliant. Most of my friends and family think I'm a bit crazy for the preparing for SHTF scenarios, but I believe, due to my disability, it's all the more reason for me to prepare. I've come to realize that my disability makes me a target, makes everyday living a challenge, and definitely puts a damper on finding a new significant other...lol. I have learned to overcome many obstacles in life, but this is by far the hardest thing I've had to deal with. I keep a good attitude, help others as much as possible, and try to get out and stay social. Because of the pain, medications are a concern as well when SHTF. I did not post to receive sympathy; I'm looking for any suggestions, input, ideas on being able to thrive and survive when SHTF.


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## BillS

You should stock up on pain meds, that's for sure. We have a year's supply of sleep supplements. We're stocking up on glucosamine chondroitin for my wife and me. We had a year's supply of ibuprofen but now we're switching to a generic form of aleve. You definitely need to consider what things you need and try to have spares. Like extra canes or whatever else you use.

I think your biggest need is to find a second person to be with before it hits the fan. You need to find someone who can take turns staying awake and keeping a gun handy. It's going to be dangerous to live alone and sleep at night.


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## DJgang

Yes, what Bill said.

There are numerous things you can do, you can shoot a shotgun huh? 

Your knowledge coupled with someone younger and more able to do things will be a good combination. You can still stock pile food now, help keep up with items, etc if you have the land, maybe start allowing 'this person or people' to start working the land. 

I think lots of it is attitude. My MIL is in horrible shape, I've tried getting her to get into the mindset but she says that she would just rather die, she's 73. my parents on the other hand, love to help in the garden etc. they may not do it all but they do what they can and that's what matters. 

Definitely find someone.


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## Tirediron

On top of stocking pain meds find some more natural substitutes that you can grow. cronic pain is a monster to live with.


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## fat_frog

I say take advantage of technologies....wherever you can. Security, knowledge/library, mobility, communication, etc. I mean...you'd still have to have some poeple to work with and live with IF...or WHEN S does hit the fan, but technologies can definitely help....


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## kejmack

Is your family close by? Perhaps you can partner with them. Even being disabled, you can still stock up on food and other supplies. You can still shoot a weapon. There are ways to make your place not worth the trouble. There are ways to lay low.


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## Startingout-Blair

BillS, I agree with everything you said, but stocking up on certain meds is impossible, especially when they are highly controlled. That is one of my fears. As for finding a "second" person, that would be great, but it is pretty tough finding a significant other that accepts me with my handicaps


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## Startingout-Blair

DJgang, I can and do shoot. Shotgun-wise, I cannot shoot a 12-gauge due to back pain and weakness, but I may be able to handle a 20 or .410. Then again, I would have to do personal reloading...finding that type of round after SHTF would be harder than 12-gauge. I have started prepping and canning foodstuff and supplies.


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## Startingout-Blair

Tirediron, I would like to find some viable substitutes for chronic pain that I can grow (legally) lol!


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## Startingout-Blair

Fat_frog, I agree, but I need to figure out what technologies would be good and how will they keep up after SHTF


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## Startingout-Blair

Kejmack, my parents are close by, but they are in their 80's and really don't believe in SHTF. They still garden, freeze foods, and pressure can, but not to the level we would need.


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## Startingout-Blair

I have been trying to study different subjects to make me more an asset, rather than an anchor. I make wine and I'm going to try beer this fall. I believe these things will be great for bartering. I have also been looking into:

Beekeeping
Livestock care
Distillation (great for medicinal use, power source, etc.)
Micro-hydro power
Fixing weapons
Gardening

And I do have experience (US Army) with tactics, weapons training and use, etc

I'm open to all suggestions and ideas


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## kejmack

Blair, don't be discouraged. I have a friend who is in a wheelchair from a motorcycle accident. He has a garden with raised beds so he can reach them. He keeps small goats. You can do plenty of things. He has gotten help with installing fencing and the gardens, but he maintains it on his own. I am sure there are plenty of preps you can handle. 

You keep mention finding a woman. Having been single, I encourage you to be happy with your situation and the right woman will come along eventually. Being single has its advantages.... you can leave the toilet seat up! LOL


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## Startingout-Blair

Kejmack, good points all around. Thanks!


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## BillM

*I have*



Startingout-Blair said:


> Tirediron, I would like to find some viable substitutes for chronic pain that I can grow (legally) lol!


I have the same problems with regard to maintenance meds for spacisity.

I have a 90 day supply but realize I may not be able to rfestock in a SHTF situation.

I would suggest stocking a case of Everclear to supliment your meds.


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## Startingout-Blair

BillM, that sounds like a good idea!


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## Magus

Startingout-Blair said:


> In December 2008, I had a bad backache. They sent me through an MRI and then told me not to move. They sent me to the emergency room. I had a disc in the middle of my back blow 6mm into my spine. I ended up having surgery which left me partially paralyzed in my left leg and in continuous terrible pain. I ended up losing my wife, house, job, career, and ability to walk without a cane (minimum). I moved back to PA and I am doing fine financially, as well as have a nice place to live (thanks to family). I have become extremely interested in homesteading, self-reliance, self-defense, etc. Problem is, due to my disability, it is really tough trying to be self-reliant. Most of my friends and family think I'm a bit crazy for the preparing for SHTF scenarios, but I believe, due to my disability, it's all the more reason for me to prepare. I've come to realize that my disability makes me a target, makes everyday living a challenge, and definitely puts a damper on finding a new significant other...lol. I have learned to overcome many obstacles in life, but this is by far the hardest thing I've had to deal with. I keep a good attitude, help others as much as possible, and try to get out and stay social. Because of the pain, medications are a concern as well when SHTF. I did not post to receive sympathy; I'm looking for any suggestions, input, ideas on being able to thrive and survive when SHTF.


I'm where you are.my 5th and 6th lombar are shot to hell and most days I can barely walk.I figure I'm dead after SHTF, BUT I WILL NOT GO QUIETLY!
I use tequila for pain killer.


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## Startingout-Blair

Presently I have 5 discs protruding into my spine. Like you, I may be dead when SHTF, but I am preparing anyway and trying my best. As an old Army Sergeant, I cannot just give up. Not in me. Mine is T11 through L5/S1


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## BillM

*Have you?*



Startingout-Blair said:


> Presently I have 5 discs protruding into my spine. Like you, I may be dead when SHTF, but I am preparing anyway and trying my best. As an old Army Sergeant, I cannot just give up. Not in me. Mine is T11 through L5/S1


Have you considered surgery?

I have had ten vertibre opperated on since 2008.

I play golf now about twice per week. I have to take meds for spacisity and it is real uncomfortable if I don't but I could supliment them with alcohol if I could not get them anymore.

If I had not had the opperations, I would be in a wheel chair.

The down time after an opperation is about six to eight weeks.


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## Startingout-Blair

BillM, my first surgery in 2008 is what left my left leg paralyzed from hip to knee. Most surgeons won't touch me now. I was told to plan on a wheel chair in the future. I haven't given up. I am going to UPMC in Pittsburgh in October for more testing


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## Magus

Startingout-Blair said:


> Presently I have 5 discs protruding into my spine. Like you, I may be dead when SHTF, but I am preparing anyway and trying my best. As an old Army Sergeant, I cannot just give up. Not in me. Mine is T11 through L5/S1


Stick with it Sarge.we have newbies to train up! 

Hang the money grubbing butchers!
My 2 cents.
Took the dumb bastards here five years to figure out gout had set up in my back!that's rare I admit, but still......


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Oh don't even begin to feel use less.
I have bad lungs.
I have help with lots of things.
I am an anchor in a good way if/when shtf I become the new/old info supply.
As it is now I AM THE Bol .
We have had small problems in the past and my people know where to go.
I also am the best fence on the property.
When I blow a home made horn animals of all kind/sizes appear.
If I need to run silent it's a little more work I have to let 1 of each type of animal see me, the other animals of that type quickly clue in and quickly drift in my direction.
I am better than a security camera.
And only very very stupid people piss off an old man in bad health. I DON'T WRESTLE I DON'T PLAY!
Stupid people are easy to get rid of just don't tell them the future.
For instance don't tell them not to stand between cow 36 and the motley faced calf.
This or that can be eaten raw. Boil it eat it die.
And if it all goes south. I can't run and everybody knows it.
So my people can end run problem individuals or groups.
I know this dirt by name.
I know where every old fence post and ground hog hole is.
I know where not to sit where not to walk and when to shut up.
This make us old guys real useful for quite a while before during and after.
So get out there and make YOUNG friends.


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## invision

Startingout-Blair said:


> BillM, my first surgery in 2008 is what left my left leg paralyzed from hip to knee. Most surgeons won't touch me now. I was told to plan on a wheel chair in the future. I haven't given up. I am going to UPMC in Pittsburgh in October for more testing


Try University of Michigan's medical facility too. They have been working wonders for years. My ex-father in law, had throat cancer, they did an operation that lifted his stomach up to his throat, yes he has lost weight, but is healthy and alive.

Don't give up, pain may be great, but life is worth fighting for bro.


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## Startingout-Blair

That's what I plan...become the fountain of knowledge. I can still train...definitely. Although not sure some of these young ones would like my type of training...lol. Might hurt their feelings...lol. So for now, I study various topics in order to become a jack of all trades. Hopefully, someone will find my knowledge useful enough. Oh, and I can still shoot! Definitely. Just can't walk far without falling down...lol


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## stayingthegame

if you can find a group there will kids that need watching and training. small things that need doing such as cooking and house cleaning. perhaps those are things you can do while others do the back breaking stuff. my dad always said that he would work with his brain instead of his back.


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## Startingout-Blair

I could help teaching the children and others, and I love cooking. I don't think the pain would let me go far with housekeeping, although I've done it prior to surgery.


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## DJgang

Blair, I'd have you on my team any day! 

There is a lot you can do!!!!


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## Startingout-Blair

Thanks DJgang! Still trying to learn new skills everyday!


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## FrankW

To the orginal poster:

IMO the only way to survive as a handicapped person in a SHTF environment is to make yourself valuable to able bodied people whose cooperation you will need to survive.

Can you take an armorers course?
if so take 'em for a couple of popular designs like AR or Glock or Ruger Revolvers.

Are you physcially capable to pass an EMT Class?
If yes then do it.

Any human being costs resources to keep alive.

In a post SHTF society those will be especially scarce and everyone needs to have a postive ratio between what you cost to keep alive and what you contribute.
If one is handicapped meeting that ratio wil be more difficult.

but its probably doable if the right training choices are made.


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## Startingout-Blair

Agreed! Thanks for the input and thoughts!


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## invision

DJgang said:


> Blair, I'd have you on my team any day!
> 
> There is a lot you can do!!!!


Same here bro...

Have an encyclopedia of knowledge aka jack of all trades will be a benefit anywhere you go... With you background you could be instrumental in helping establish trading and pricing items too.


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## stayingthegame

as someone who is handicapped, I find that what I think will take 2 hours ends up taking 4 or being done over two days instead of one. my strength and stamina only go so far, but my mind still says I can do it. if the shtf then I will just have to work smarter and or slower to get the job done. I will hope that there will be enough time for me to do what needs to be done.


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## kappydell

Perhaps you could find a prep partner whose handicaps complement yours. 
For example, my prep partner has back trouble, cant lift. I have bad hip I don't think they are ever going to fix (they keep finding reasons not to). I walk with a walker, but my partner can move quickly. My partner can't lift, but I can (slowly). 

You are just starting out. Welcome to the forum, this is one of the most educational ones I have been to. And try to find a prepper meeting group; the networking is invaluable. If there isn't one, it might be worth it to start one. Retired cops and vets are often interested, for they have seen first hand what happens to the unprepared.


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## LongRider

Startingout-Blair said:


> I have learned to overcome many obstacles in life, but this is by far the hardest thing I've had to deal with. I keep a good attitude, help others as much as possible, and try to get out and stay social. Because of the pain, medications are a concern as well when SHTF. I did not post to receive sympathy; I'm looking for any suggestions, input, ideas on being able to thrive and survive when SHTF.


I have had my back and neck broken, my wife a few years back had to have surgery on a blown disk from a motorcycle accident. DO NOT let it get you down. There is going to be pain. It sounds like you are manning up and dealing with it. Good. You need to. Do not let it ever be an excuse for not doing something. That may sound cruel but as soon as you start down that path you are on your way to being a morphine junkie couch potato. I have seen it to many times. If you stay active things just work better. Exercise strengthen your stomach and back muscles. If you take pain meds take a break from them at least a few times every month. Better yet take only immediate release only when you are in screaming pain never in anticipation of pain. Avoid taking them daily. Take as few as possible stock pile the rest. If you have been on a steady diet of pain meds set four or five days aside and detox. You will go through withdrawals vomiting, chills, diarrhea and extreme pain. Likely the worst thing you have ever experienced. Worst than the surgery worst than the injury. But it is only a few days and will reduce the amount you need to deal with the pain. Consider a Green Card I know some folks who have real good results with pot. It just makes me stupid.

Learn different ways to do things. As an example raised garden beds are not as hard on our backs and most of our floors are hardwood and tile because vacuuming hurts our backs. Pace yourself it does not all need to get done at once.

Last screw that depend on others to take care of you crap. We are grown men be of service to others, help where you can, but always know you are the only one responsible for you. Good luck don't let this get you down.


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## Startingout-Blair

Longrider, good info! Thanks!


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## BillM

*Blair, I'm sorry*



DJgang said:


> Blair, I'd have you on my team any day!
> 
> There is a lot you can do!!!!


Blair, I'm sorry . I would have you on my team but I have already asked the "Swedish Bikinni Team" and I just can't split up those twins !


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## Startingout-Blair

BillM, I can't believe you are going to be that self-serving and not share the twins! Hell, there's two of them! Can't ya just gimme one??? I'll play nice, I swear!!! Lol


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## BillM

*Them twins*



Startingout-Blair said:


> BillM, I can't believe you are going to be that self-serving and not share the twins! Hell, there's two of them! Can't ya just gimme one??? I'll play nice, I swear!!! Lol


Them twins and a cold glass of water would do two old cripples like you and me in !


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## Startingout-Blair

But it would be an honorable and worthy demise!!! Lol


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## frizzyfran

I have numerous spinal surgeries and have been in your boat. I take medication when necessary and one of my primary stops is a pharmacy when I have to BO. Some things I have found out. (Btw I have to take care of my wife,3kids,4neices,GM,) that is the immediate. I live in south jersey and getting us/2other families out is our plan of attack. I know many will say why so many, but I figure my essential family is important, next I WILL NEED HELP!!! Fortunately I live by the big pond. Since I live near it and a highly congested area, I figure to pack only BOB bags and have my center console ready to go. My plan is to use the waterways as much as possible and have one person make it w/vehicle able to tow behind. I live right around essential businesses that luckily for me I would be able to exploit and go.i have distributed the carry load and have heavy oats and grains for supplement and plus the pharmacies are as we'll Heath stores....rich in natural long lasting food. Now, before anyone jumps down my throat about this. First, I cannot afford to keep a stash or prep the way I'd like to...just able, my sister is arrested and will be for extended stay and I have limited income. So, my plan is to prep essential tools,supplies that I use in everyday events( fishing line &duct tape is more valuable than gold!) but honestly, I will be a raider at first. I won't say where I'm headed but I believe unless unable use any water way to move past the masses in the first days. Hit any pharmacy as most will be in sporting goods/supermarkets...but be first! I have guns,ammo packed and stowed away and have left one for travel. CARRY LIGHT CARRY FAST, if your on the move. Additionally, use helpfull dedicated preppers with different skills than you have. GENERAL SURVIVAL AND MECHANICALLY incline would be nice. LEARN HOW TO salt cure meat is important. As for your condition. Grab a trash bag or two, enter and just dump the important isles, bandage/medicinal/dried fruit&nuts first and get going. DON'T LOOK TO LONG AT SPECIFICS, learn your local pharmacy so as to shorten our time, and just arm dump things into bag (you can sort em out later at you Bol.) also I have a abundance of arrows and points because I feel less noise less trouble . I know people say ween off the meds so he'll with that...everyone I's different. I cannot operate without em and neither can my wife (lupus). Make sure you watch your pharmacist as to where they grab your meds from. It will be useful in the MAD DASH later. Remember... Speed , accuracy ,and preparedness is fundamental ...but knowing and planning is SURVIVAL. I don't believe anything will happen in my lifetime, but expect it to and is why I am prepping. I hope this is just me being paranoid, I just can't get the idea of 100000+ people all doing the same thing in my state and millions across the globe cannot be wrong.


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## Startingout-Blair

Good information FrizzyFran!


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## frizzyfran

Anything you need as for ideas or advise just ask. Being disabled doesn't mean being unable. Every human can bear it ...remember civil war didn't have anesthesia until the end. They'll cut your leg off with only a shot of wisky and a dull,rusty,blood red saw then. Those were true men. Hell, if they could manage....so could we.


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## Startingout-Blair

Not sure I would want tonnage that bad...lol, but I get your point. Thank you!


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## frizzyfran

Lol haha, I hear ya. I always throughout my life, took the time to hear any and all stories from my elders to be able to pass the knowledge along. Your definitely right...your an encyclopedia and a natural resource. Hopefully , it doesn't come to pass.


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## Startingout-Blair

I figure the more knowledge I have to share, the more valuable I become to others. I do agree: hope it never happens. In reality, I'd be shocked if it didn't in the next 5 years or less


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## LongRider

Post deleted as I realized that I completely misunderstood the post I was responding to



LongRiders Dictionary said:


> Definition of *Raider* raid·er noun \ˈrā-dər\
> 
> 1) An especially vile narcissistic entitlement parasite.
> 2) A deluded individual that perceives that the world around them exists to gratify their selfish self centered wants with total disregard for the rights and needs of others.
> 3) A lazy weak and spineless prima donna unwilling to put forth any personal effort, work or self sacrifice to meet their own needs who has rationalized robbing raping and murdering others to get what they want​An example of a raider mindset in contemporary society would be home invasion robbers who invade a home to steal everything the occupant has spent a lifetime of hard work labor and sacrifice to acquire. Than because they are weak spineless cowards acutely aware of the fact that their victim is a vastly superior human being, attempt to compensate for their own lack of self worth by torturing and raping the little children in the house than murder the occupants.
> 
> Synonyms: cowardly invader, aggressor, rapist, robber, murderer,


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## frizzyfran

Maybe raider was wrong choice of word....would gatherer be a better choice? Depends on viewpoint. I used the most simplistic form of speech I thought of at the time I posted. I did not create a rough draft and have a editor cross check and reference it. Though as to your post, you wrote raider definition as a slight to my integrity and character. I am not out for profit and gain. I have done my own part of securing enough supplies for my family, but if it came to pass the day the world stops...or if SHTF , I will be one to secure my right in protecting and caring for my family. Whether you decide to bunker in, BO, or anything that is your choice. I do not and will not call into question anyone's integrity about their choice in protecting their own loved ones. Please do not call into question my own. I read on here people who post about killing or harming any human that may be threatening, cannibalism, group raiding, murder, or any other act of violence to another human. I believe that you should only be violent in means where your own health and safety is of utmost and dire consequences. I simply showed a path of least resistance in my life to get out of the worst of areas and to a BOL that I saw fit for my plans. It may not be the best or may not be right in everyone's view, but if our lives where so-to-speak become one of total breakdown of civilization or total wars...even lord forbid any other atrocity that causes the lack of fundamental civil action. I chose a course of action that will hopefully if I am lucky enough and still around, be able to provide sanctity to those whom I love. Nothing else. I ask if this event was to take place....when is a proper time to find resources? At the onset? Prior (which I am currently and most here are), during, a few days after...weeks? Months? A year or more? No right or wrong decision, it is a personal one. Be careful before labeling anyone, and before you do , look in the mirror first, would you do the same given the environment.


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## jazzy12

hi ya'll. the thread title got my attention, while i dont have back or spine problems, im losing my vision with macular degeneration in both eyes (central vision loss). makes life interesting for sure bumbling and stumbling around, lol. also messed up my knees and shoulders in a bad fall and have been dealing with that pain and recovery. but im not calling it quits, i just move slower and have to find new ways of doing things.

im gonna suggest 2 things for pain, may or may not help but it helped me tremendously with knees and shoulders.

green lipped sea mussel and bromelain

the sea mussel is not expensive, can get it anywhere online, i use 4-6 a day, took about 2 weeks to kick in but i can walk now. not fast or fancy, but i can walk and even climb some stairs without pain. it gave me back a somewhat normal life.

the bromelain, is what some folks use for indigestion, but if you take it Inbetween meals, 500mg with the highest GDU you can find, it helps with pain. but you have to take it inbetween meals, thats the key. that is helping me too right now. because of these 2 things i can move around and do things i couldnt do before. might help you a bit, i dont know but its cheap enough its worth trying.

you have knowledge and skills and life experience, you are valuable, more than you might think. beer and wine making is cool, we do it here and its fun. but i can do some things, and i can teach others what i know and have started teaching others to can food.

im also in a situation where id need help to get by, thankfully i have a great dh and 4 grown kids (if they ever wake up and ever get here if tshtf). i know the concern of trying to keep things together if on your own. it would be extremely difficult for me, we have a small homestead and theres alot of work that needs to get done regularly, chickens, firewood, gardens, greenhouse, etc, etc and i cant do it all, or rather, i cant do it the way it needs to be done, lol. .i find my ways of doing things, sometimes they work out, sometimes, um, not so good.

since your a vet is there a way to look up others in a vet organization you could get to know and see if you can live together and help each other out? someone on board with whats going on and what needs ot be done?

another thing about prescription meds, try alldaychemist.com, i was able to get back up for dhs meds, worked real good. most of you all probably know about them already but i tried them and they were good. might be worth checking them out.

i wish you all the best, blair. folks like us with problems might not be at our best when things go to crap but we can give our best. and i reckon thats enough. i tihnk youd be a cool neighbor to have. 

ps--sorry for typos, i try to go back and fix things but cant always see what needs fixin.


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## Startingout-Blair

Thanks Jazzy! I appreciate the input. I just wish more of my neighbors were aware of everything going on and more of a prepping mindset.


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## LongRider

frizzyfran said:


> Maybe raider was wrong choice of word....would gatherer be a better choice? Depends on viewpoint. I used the most simplistic form of speech I thought of at the time I posted. I did not create a rough draft and have a editor cross check and reference it. Though as to your post, you wrote raider definition as a slight to my integrity and character. I am not out for profit and gain. I have done my own part of securing enough supplies for my family, but if it came to pass the day the world stops...or if SHTF , I will be one to secure my right in protecting and caring for my family.


My definition of raider was simply stated as a fact, my definition of what a raider is. Not just you but ALL raiders. If the shoe fits feel free to wear it. No need to try and sugar coat it now by calling it something else. Raider accurately fits your stated plan of action. To "take" by force if need be from local businesses whatever you see fit. Being the first one through the door taking whatever you want or think you need is not a scavenger or gatherer. That is a raider, robber, thief. I can go back and quote you line by line if you like but we both know that is your intent and "so called plan" To pretend otherwise at this juncture would be a lie. So no you used the correct phrase to start with. At least you are stand up and straight forward about your intent. No reason to make a liar out of yourself now.

Integrity? Are you kidding? Do you even know the definition of the word?

*INTEGRITY* from Merriam Webster Dictionary


Merriam Webster Dictionary said:


> Definition of INTEGRITY
> in·teg·ri·ty noun \in-ˈte-grə-tē\
> 1: firm adherence to a code of especially moral or artistic values : incorruptibility


*INTEGRITY* from Dictionary.Com


Dictionary.Com said:


> in·teg·ri·ty
> [in-teg-ri-tee] noun
> 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.


Explain to me what moral code advocates robbing plundering pillaging rape and murder? *A RAIDER BY DEFINITION HAS NO INTEGRITY*. Apparently some raiders do not even know the definition of the word. You are in no position to suggest what I should or should not do. You hold no high moral ground. Of course I am going to question those that advocate immoral criminal behavior. Not only because I find it offensive and repugnant but it is those kinds of posts that perpetuate the stereo type of survivalist being immoral psychopaths. I think it diminishes the credibility of this forum. So of course I am going to speak out against it. Yes I make a moral judgement. It is because of people like you that intend on being raiders that require I invest valuable resource and time on security and defenses.

You made it clear that being a raider is your number one solution. You did not say that you have worked as hard as possible making your homestead self sustaining, planted a garden, are raising livestock, or that you have taken every first aid, carpentry, welding mechanics, gardening, animal husbandry, hunting, trapping, canning, and every other survival skills course you could to have a solid survival skill set. Nor did you say you have prepped and stock piled as much as you possibly can. Having made the extra effort and whatever sacrifice was necessary to assure that your family will be provided for and if all that failed you families life in jeopardy you might opt to resort to raiding. In fact according to you, you have done nothing to prep other than plan on how to rob others of what they have. You made raiding your number one option of choice. You outlined your entire plan to bug out around raiding aka robbing local business.

Than presented a pathetic lame excuse to justify robbing others of what they have earned and acquired by their hard work efforts and sacrifice. 


frizzyfran said:


> I cannot afford to keep a stash or prep the way I'd like to...just able, my sister is arrested and will be for extended stay and I have limited income.


Oh you are poor, on a fixed income and cannot prep like you would like to. 
*SO WHAT? *
How does that justify being an entitlement parasite? How does that make you entitled to what others have as a result of their hard work and effort? How does that justify being a raider robbing others of what belongs to them? How does that justify wallowing in self pity instead of picking your self up and doing something about it? Why does it come as no surprise your sister in prison?

Being poor is no excuse for not prepping and stock piling what you need now. It is just an excuse for being lazy and unwilling to do what it takes to secure your family's survival. The easy way out. A way to play the poor pathetic victim, to justify being a raider raping robbing and murdering people. Rather than work and put forth some honest effort to overcome whatever obstacles you need to provide security for your family. You want to rob and steal from other who have worked hard to provide for their families.

Despite the fact that you have an advantage over most people. You said you are disabled with a limited income. Is that like fixed income, code for welfare or Social Security disability? If so that means you do not have to get up to go to work to provide for yourself and family. The rest of us foot that bill for you. You could take advantage of the opportunity and make a better life for yourself instead you want to steal from the very people whose generosity supports you. You could move to a remote location where rent is cheaper than what you pay now and have land. Use the time you do not work to build a self sustaining homestead. By being self sustaining save even more money to buy supplies and equipment with. But that would require quit playing the poor victim, stop wallowing in self pity. Get up put forth some honest effort, take some responsibility for your self and those you bred.

Bottom line IMO is those that are to lazy, weak, unwilling to sacrifice and do what is necessary now to secure a future their families will never make if SHTF because they do not have the mind set, fortitude, determination,or strength to make once their life of entitlement ends. While your plan to play Rambo raider may work for a moment against the unsuspecting and unaware. Poor impoverished self pitying raider with their knock off AK's, 10/22 and Saturday night specials will encounter those who have prepped trained and practiced how to survive. Including how to defend and protect what is ours. With quality weapons we have trained and practiced with in anticipation of giving Raiders exactly what they are entitled to, a dirt nap.


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## Startingout-Blair

LongRider, I understand your need to explain the difference between Raider and Prepper. I agree with what you are saying, but i feel that your post was very personal and over the top. Your attitude about Soc. Sec. disability people seems very prejudiced and snotty. I, too, am on SSD and Medicare. I worked all my life putting into the system. I've paid in more than I will ever receive out from it. I am "vested" in SSD. I did not choose to be a cripple. I do go out of my way daily to prep, learn new skills to make myself useful, and teach others as needed. I was also smart enough to invest in long term disability insurance. I worked my a$$ off to have what I have and to get where I was until tragedy struck me. I understand the dislike of the raider mindset, but don't believe that everyone that receives SSD is a lazy piece of crap and just sucks off the Govt teats!


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## LongRider

Startingout-Blair said:


> I, too, am on SSD and Medicare. I worked all my life putting into the system. I've paid in more than I will ever receive out from it. I am "vested" in SSD. I did not choose to be a cripple. I do go out of my way daily to prep, learn new skills to make myself useful, and teach others as needed. I was also smart enough to invest in long term disability insurance. I worked my a$$ off to have what I have and to get where I was until tragedy struck me. I understand the dislike of the raider mindset, but don't believe that everyone that receives SSD is a lazy piece of crap and just sucks off the Govt teats!


The post was not at all directed at you. Nor did I intend to disparage anyone on SSD that put into the system. Lots did not and are collecting anyway taking away from those like you who actually contributed.

I did respond to your post previously and I hope it came across that I have a great deal of respect for folks like you who despite being disabled are looking for ways to be productive and useful. Being injured is no joke I have no doubt you did not intend on becoming disabled. I know that I did not plan on breaking my back or getting my neck broken though I do have to admit to having some part in at least one of those breaks due to my pride youthful arrogant belief that I was invincible. My point though still stands, as I believe you are doing. Instead of sniveling and whining you are looking on how to turn the lemons you have been given into lemonade. Making the best of what you have, IMHO that is far more admirable than being a simpering sniveling whining entitlement parasite playing victim, especially when it is used as an excuse to prey upon others. Being on disability does provide you with an opportunity to become self sustaining. In effect you are retired able to live where you please with in your means of course. Land and homes out in the sticks cost far less to buy or rent than in urban areas. You have the time to plant a garden raise some chickens and goats, the time to develop the skills and knowledge you need. I think that is what you are in fact doing or at least headed in that direction. I also think you will find the experience cathartic.

Long story short there is a massive difference between what you are doing your attitude and mind set than that of someone whose goal is to become a raider. My apology if anything I said came across as being directed at you it was not.


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## Startingout-Blair

Apology accepted! I just got a little hot under the collar when I read your post. I was a little confused considering your prior post in my situation. I am easy to get along with and I know, since this is all messaging and not face to face, it is easy to misinterpret someone else's meaning. My apology to you for jumping the gum Longrider! I can admit when I am wrong.
And yes, I too am not happy with people that figure they will try to sustain themselves on other's hard work and preps. Believe me, I am quite capable of taking on a small group of raiders myself, although help is always appreciated.


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## Dakine

BlueZ said:


> To the orginal poster:
> 
> IMO the only way to survive as a handicapped person in a SHTF environment is to make yourself valuable to able bodied people whose cooperation you will need to survive.
> 
> Can you take an armorers course?
> if so take 'em for a couple of popular designs like AR or Glock or Ruger Revolvers.
> 
> Are you physcially capable to pass an EMT Class?
> If yes then do it.
> 
> Any human being costs resources to keep alive.
> 
> In a post SHTF society those will be especially scarce and everyone needs to have a postive ratio between what you cost to keep alive and what you contribute.
> If one is handicapped meeting that ratio wil be more difficult.
> 
> but its probably doable if the right training choices are made.


It really almost makes you the ideal candidate to add to a group if you look it at from a certain point of view.

Your liabilities are minimal!

You're not there to carry things away.
You're not there boasting of what you can do to make their lives easier with hard labor.
You're not there because you have a lot of options, you're making the best choice you can on the people you have been presented with.

Your strengths are HUGE!!!

You can take a night guard shift, while people who are doing physical labor type work during the day are sleeping
You can use that brain and teach not only the kids the 3 R's but also some of the adults in things you know about.
You can cook the groups meals while other people are working. 
You can monitor the comm's
it just goes on and on... with things at the house, you're johnny on the spot. Given your ability and attitude, you're very difficult to replace.

You're actually a force multiplier.


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## Startingout-Blair

Wow Dakine! Thank you! I like your thinking! Gives me a whole new perspective and outlook!


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## Grimm

I know this thread is older but I'd be proud to be part of your group. The fact you aren't letting physical limitations stop you is amazing. So many people hit those walls and just stop. They expect others to cover their asses but you refuse to do that!

Kudos.


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## goshengirl

There are many forms of handicap. Lots of folks don't even recognize that they're handicapped, because theirs isn't the physical kind. Lack of awareness, tunnel vision - other mental limitations - those are all handicaps. 

You don't have that.

Know your strengths, develop them, and play them for all they're worth. :beercheer:


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## Caribou

I have a couple disks that don't like me anymore. I got myself off oxycodone by taking noni. My results have been almost as good and my brain doesn't feel like it is packed in cotton balls. I started with the juice but recently switched to the pills for convenience while traveling. Noni is a fruit and is highly antioxidant. I believe that a lot of the effect comes from reducing inflammation but as long as it works for me...
I order mine from http://nonimaui.com/


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## BillM

*Self Defence*



Startingout-Blair said:


> Wow Dakine! Thank you! I like your thinking! Gives me a whole new perspective and outlook!


There are only three conditions that predicate self defence.

1. being ready
2. being willing
3. being able

You can do without being ready and able and still prevail but you can never do without being willing.

The most dangerous people I ever dealt with were not particulary ready or able but they were damn sure willing!


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## Dude111

Startingout-Blair said:


> In December 2008, I had a bad backache. They sent me through an MRI and then told me not to move. They sent me to the emergency room. I had a disc in the middle of my back blow 6mm into my spine. I ended up having surgery which left me partially paralyzed in my left leg and in continuous terrible pain. I ended up losing my wife, house, job, career, and ability to walk without a cane (minimum).


I am so sorry buddy,I think your wife was a fool to turn her back on you due to all this.. It wasnt your fault this happend..

My thoughts and prayers to you for happiness


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## camo2460

Blair never underestimate yourself, let others do that at their own risk. It never ceases to amaze me when some young buck thinks that he can push the "old man" around and then the old man with bad knees, one kidney, and high blood pressure totaly whoops his ass off. It's like bills said I may nto be ready or able but I sure am willing and it sounds like you are to. NEVER GIVE UP.


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## Startingout-Blair

I want to thank each and every one of you! I did not expect when joining this group to have such a strong support group! All of you have made comments on how I am persevering and going forward; I personally think all of you need to be congratulated! You have proven to me and many others that you don't need to really know someone to treat them like family. I would definitely work with any and/or all of you in a $hit hit the fan situation or on a regular daily basis. I am proud to be part of this community! You should be too! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!


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## cooksarah78

Blair keeping ur chin up is the best medicine now with that being said I am not a dr. However I am working in the medical community. You are probably also experiencing inflammation which leads to spasms, which leads to pain. Try some valerian root. It has. Horrible after taste but has worked on a number of issues I was having especially while I was going to school. For pain you should stay low as I call it. Start with ice or heat depending in how the pain starts and where and go up from their. Also looking for other ways to control the pain while you come down from pain pills will help you hold on to more of them. I'm currently looking into the same thing for my own family members and ways to control their pain without prescriptions. It will take time before I find the right thing. Once again I am not a dr. This is purely suggestion.


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## JayJay

My husband could barely walk due to knee pain...Glucosamine(Puritan Pride/ buy 1, get 2 free) and ginger root(same deal) has made him a new man.
Seriously; he will not be without them for a day!!

And when he had carotid surgery, he had to stop taking both these.
It took him a month to return to pain-free. He swears by them.


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## LongRider

BillM said:


> The most dangerous people I ever dealt with were not particulary ready or able but they were damn sure willing!


The most dangerous I have met are those who are willing to die.


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## BillM

*Yea*



LongRider said:


> The most dangerous I have met are those who are willing to die.


And they don't mind if you go with them !


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## LongRider

BillM said:


> And they don't mind if you go with them !


Exactly. That is their intent. I must admit I am like them in that respect. In that I intend and pray that my final accomplishment will be taking the SOB who kills me to hell with me.


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## Dakine

LongRider said:


> Exactly. That is their intent. I must admit I am like them in that respect. In that I intend and pray that my final accomplishment will be taking the SOB who kills me to hell with me.


I think I saw it best summed up as:

I came into this world kicking and screaming and covered in someone else's blood, and God willing, if necessary I'll go out the same way!


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## headhunter

Startingout-Blair, a half century ago my dad said that the world will not change to meet your needs, you better figure how you will fit in the world. It sounds as if you have made a good start especially with your positive attitude.
If things do fall all apart and it is winter along with what has previously been listed there are things that need doing. There are those who can't sharpen things to save their souls: knives axes, saws, chainsaws, chisels .froes, the adze, shovels, and hoes (heck, there are a lot of people who don't know the latter work better when sharpened). A couple of spare wooden axe, hammer, shovel, and splitter handles will probably be worth their weight in gold as well as the skill to fit them. (Can you imagine how many tools will become worthless because of unfamiliarity with them?) There are things that need snaps, grommets, or rivets. There are things that previously would have been discarded that will need heavy duty sewing with linen waxed thread. Think about the casting of bullets. 
As far as meds, you know what you need. But, if something is prescribed 3X daily and you can get by with twice- your stash begins to grow.
Take care of you.


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