# I Have A Decision To Make



## Davarm

Well people, its happened again! Another idiot neighbor sprayed a field with herbicide last week and I'm seeing its results in my garden. 

It's mostly in my Okra and Peach Trees, new growth is curled and starting to die, its not nearly as bad as what happened several years ago but the plants are definitely showing signs of exposure. I think everything will survive but I have to decide if I'm going to call the "Texas Department Of Agriculture" and get this joker raked over the coals. Also, I've not been able to find any literature or anything definitive about the safety of food from exposed plants, no one seems to want to go out on a limb and say anything one way or another.

I put a lot of time, effort, money, sweat and planning into my garden and to have some stupid idiot do this makes me so mad I fear I'll have a stroke just thinking about it. The really irritating thing is that the field isn't grazed, hayed or anything else, it's just sitting idle - he does mow it in the summer but I think he just uses it as a buffer area between his home and the country road that runs by the property.

I've managed to keep the garden going(and producing) this year through the late frosts, heat, low rainfall and most of all - the grasshoppers and when someone pulls a stunt like that it makes my blood boil.

Any input on whether I should get the TDA out here and get them after this guy?


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## Grimm

If I were in your shoes I would get the TDA involved. Mostly because this asshat's stupidity has cost you money.


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## hiwall

You will have to do something or it will happen again and again. Better listen to Grimm because my advice would likely include violence.


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## OldCootHillbilly

Approach the nieghbor, ifin he won't hep, nail his but ta the outhouse door.

Happened at my brothers farm, killed the whole garden. In the end the farmer had ta pay. Should be even easier these days with all the "green" thins goin on. They be sprayin a hazerdous chemical an drift should be close ta nill ifin there doin it right. Ifin they ain't, time ta get em on track.


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## camo2460

Agreed, do something about it, which might also include a law suit for property damage


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## RevWC

Davarm said:


> Well people, its happened again! Another idiot neighbor sprayed a field with herbicide last week and I'm seeing its results in my garden.
> 
> It's mostly in my Okra and Peach Trees, new growth is curled and starting to die, its not nearly as bad as what happened several years ago but the plants are definitely showing signs of exposure. I think everything will survive but I have to decide if I'm going to call the "Texas Department Of Agriculture" and get this joker raked over the coals. Also, I've not been able to find any literature or anything definitive about the safety of food from exposed plants, no one seems to want to go out on a limb and say anything one way or another.
> 
> I put a lot of time, effort, money, sweat and planning into my garden and to have some stupid idiot do this makes me so mad I fear I'll have a stroke just thinking about it. The really irritating thing is that the field isn't grazed, hayed or anything else, it's just sitting idle - he does mow it in the summer but I think he just uses it as a buffer area between his home and the country road that runs by the property.
> 
> I've managed to keep the garden going(and producing) this year through the late frosts, heat, low rainfall and most of all - the grasshoppers and when someone pulls a stunt like that it makes my blood boil.
> 
> Any input on whether I should get the TDA out here and get them after this guy?


If you were to get some of Monsanto's seeds there would be no problem!


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## *Andi

Documentation ... picture evidence ...

Can you talk to the neighbor and explain what is going on when they spray? If not ... then yea ...I would start calling.

Best of luck.


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## Sentry18

Man that sucks. A less patient man would be cleaning your neighbors ass off your boot right now. And deservedly so!


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## Dixie

Yeah, I think the TDA needs to get involved if not only to stop this nut but to do testing on your soil. They should be able to tell you more about your soil's contamination. I think your neighbor should scrape and carry off your old soil and replace with 3-4 inches of BLACK top soil. As there is no regulation for top soil, make sure you get it in writing that only black top soil, no sub-soil! This person has ruined your winter food supply. Call and find out your rights.


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## farmers

A herbicide is taken in by plant leaves. Hose down your peach trees good. If the herbicide was used for weeds, the soil deactivates it. Your plants have already asborded the chemical. On all chemical s there are guidelines to be followed. He also has to have a chemical licence to purchase for farm and ranch. Definitely turn him in. Talk to your county commissioner, if he has a state chemical licence. Be sure and report him to the state.


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## cowboyhermit

As someone who has sprayed MANY acres over the years I am disturbed by just how careless people are these days, not to mention how often things are applied whether or not they are actually needed.

There is just no way that there would be measurable quantities in the soil from an occasional drift, not that it isn't terrible but I wouldn't be too worried about your soil. You really should find out what he actually sprayed with imo, there is a huge difference from one chemical to another in terms of toxicity and residual effect.


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## Davarm

I went to the Extension Office and made the complaint today, surprisingly enough the same inspector that came a few years back will be handling it. We hit it off pretty good then and under other circumstances, I'd be looking forward to the visit.

Not much of a chance to talk to the guy, he has a 1/4 mile long driveway and keeps the gate locked and I'm not going to sit by the gate and try to catch him when he comes or goes.

I really thought that last case would get people to thinking about carelessly using herbicide, the local Farm and Ranch Store got pinged pretty good on it. I suspect that it was a phenoxy herbicide(2,4-D or similar) by the symptoms I'm seeing and depending on the method of manufacture, they can contain "Dioxins", dont need to go into that as their effects on humans and livestock are well documented.

I didn't file a law suit against the Farm and Ranch, probably should have, I just bit the loss and "assumed" it wouldn't happen again(we all know what happens when you assume and it did). 

My daughters are surprised that I havent already put my foot so far up his a$$ that he's spitting toe nails and Kiwi. I'm going to have to wait until the results of the investigation are in before I can talk to an attorney and that will likely be around the first of the year if the last incident is any indicator. With my luck the S will already have HTF by then and he will already have been taken in the open zombie season.


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## Davarm

Most of the people around here use a mix of 2,4-D and Dicamba, thats what the Ag Stores push when someone comes in looking for herbicide.

The research I did last time suggested that the biological activity in the soil would break the chemicals down if a few months so by next garden season it "SHOULD" be gone. The investigator will take plant samples and send them to the lab for analysis, thats how contamination is verified here by the State of Texas.

On a different note, the last time this happened, NO ONE would provide me with any information on the herbicides "half-life", persistence, or mitigation of effects so as a last resort I called the manufacturer. I was pleasantly surprised when they provided me with an abundance of info, even had rep stop by a few months later when he was in the area.



cowboyhermit said:


> As someone who has sprayed MANY acres over the years I am disturbed by just how careless people are these days, not to mention how often things are applied whether or not they are actually needed.
> 
> There is just no way that there would be measurable quantities in the soil from an occasional drift, not that it isn't terrible but I wouldn't be too worried about your soil. You really should find out what he actually sprayed with imo, there is a huge difference from one chemical to another in terms of toxicity and residual effect.


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## farmers

Ask about the lab report on dioxins. The old herbicides that had dioxins in them, stayed in the ground for years. Good luck


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## Davarm

That joker was back out spraying again today, 100 degrees and the wind blowing in our direction.

He's either the stupidest person in the state or he just doesn't care, people like that shouldn't be allow to breed!


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## Marcus

I hope you took some pictures or video of his spraying along with how the wind carried it to your property.


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## Davarm

Yea, did that but when "TDA" does their investigation they check the days weather for the area, includes Temp, Wind, Cloud Cover......


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## RevWC

Boresight.....


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## crabapple

What they said.
Make the guy pay to have your fruit tested also.


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## Country Living

Ask the extension agent about revoking your neighbor's Private Applicator license (assuming he has one) and make him sit through the five hour class again if he wants it back. You're lucky to have a good extension agent... ours is totally worthless. I have to go to neighboring counties if I need something.

If that happened to us, I would go to our local USDA agent - he's worth is hefty weight in gold as far as we're concerned. 

Good luck. Be sure and post updates.


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## unlessitwillhelp

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...........


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## OldCootHillbilly

unlessitwillhelp said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmm...........


This be a perfect example of a wasted post, post paddin er what have ya. I left yall this message before ya changed yalls name. Take it ta heart. Ifin ya wanna really learn sumtin, were here ta help. Otherwise.

DIYwithease, let me say a few thins here an I hope yall take it ta hart.

1st, respect be earned, it ain't just given. Yall got a fair piece ta go before ya earn respect here. Arguin an name callen of other members ain't gonna earn ya no respect what so ever.

2nd, This be a forum fer preppin an homesteadin. We all be here ta share info an idears on those subjects an thins related. We'll be glad ta teach ya bout them thins an discuss the same subject matter. Remember, yer awfull young, many a us here be a fair bit older they yall with more experience.

3rd, Post count don't really mean a whole lot ta the folk who been here awhile. Post content be far more important then just how many thins we can post. We have specific areas fer a reason. We have a recipe section where we post recipes. We have a general area where we discuss thins what don't fit elsewhere. We have a health section where we post health related thins.

4th, Ifin yall got some quality info ta share, we'd be glad ta here it. Were just not inta dribble.

We be glad ta have ya here, but try an fit in with the folks what have been here fer a spell. Ain't tellin ya ta act just like us, but don't stomp on folks toes round here cause ya ain't gonna gain much by that.

Justa bita free advice from a old hillbilly what been round the block a few times.


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## Country Living

Coot, you said it a lot nicer than most of us would have done.....


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## Grimm

Country Living said:


> Coot, you said it a lot nicer than most of us would have done.....


I know that was a "dig" at me...!

I have been biting my tongue since she came back. I think the sermon at church this morning sunk in a bit...


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## Country Living

Oh, no... I've been mulling various answers over and over and they were all sledge-hammery. Old Coot was much nicer than I would have been.... much, much nicer. I probably spent too much time wondering what the new person was trying to accomplish except to get a higher post count. And Old Coot nailed it.....


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## Country Living

Figured it out. She's 13.

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f43/hello-ohio-20696/#post277409


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## Davarm

Country Living said:


> Ask the extension agent about revoking your neighbor's Private Applicator license (assuming he has one) and make him sit through the five hour class again if he wants it back. You're lucky to have a good extension agent... ours is totally worthless. I have to go to neighboring counties if I need something.
> 
> If that happened to us, I would go to our local USDA agent - he's worth is hefty weight in gold as far as we're concerned.
> 
> Good luck. Be sure and post updates.


When I went through all this the last time I "thought" the agent told me that a license wasn't required for a land owner to spray his own fields but I could be wrong. I was pretty peeved at the time and may not have been paying real good attention to him.

In the next few days I should be contacted by the investigator unless he's really backlogged. Last time it was the same day but that was at the beginning of the year when not much had been going on.

I'll keep the USDA option in mind.


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## goshengirl

I have no advice to offer - just wishing you luck with this, Dave. It stinks dealing with idiot neighbors. 

I'm hoping this all goes fast for you, so you can get back to the stuff you should be doing and want to be doing, and I hope your neighbor gets a clue...


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## Tirediron

If I understand this right this guy has been warned before, and should know better. My solution would get you in trouble, but I hope you get this solved to your satisfaction.


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## Grimm

Tirediron said:


> If I understand this right this guy has been warned before, and should know better. My solution would get you in trouble, but I hope you get this solved to your satisfaction.


Yeah, my real suggestion would have been to knock this asshat's teeth out but I always have to remember what the law would frown at. Don't need to be arrested again.


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## Tank_Girl

A pound of sugar in his fuel tank might cure him of his shenanigians.

then again...a few ounces of lead might be quicker.

*00PPPSSSS....did I type that out loud?*

Ahem.....

I mean "Nothing in the world can't be solved with the use of TACT!"

*pulls back the recharge handle on "Tact"*

Teeheeee!


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## Country Living

Davarm said:


> When I went through all this the last time I "thought" the agent told me that a license wasn't required for a land owner to spray his own fields but I could be wrong. I was pretty peeved at the time and may not have been paying real good attention to him.
> 
> In the next few days I should be contacted by the investigator unless he's really backlogged. Last time it was the same day but that was at the beginning of the year when not much had been going on.
> 
> I'll keep the USDA option in mind.


I'm assuming your neighbor is not flying footloose with Roundup because it's no longer under private applicator label; but, and that's a very big "but", there's still a mandate to follow the label and avoid days where drift would be an issue.

You have to have a Private Applicator license to purchase restricted use or limited use pesticides or regulated herbicides. That doesn't mean he can't get someone to purchase it for him; however, just having the license mandates he keep records of what, when, how much, and where. And the license must be posted and visible and the records readily available at any time for review. Sure, parts of Texas are a little lax; but, regs are regs.

I realize the extension agents oversee the licensing and CEs for Private Applicator licensing; however, as far as I know, they're not the enforcers. That's why I think a chat with the local USDA rep might be worth a few minutes of your time. I really don't know.... I just know our USDA guy won't take crap off anyone.

The weight of the loss is on your shoulders to prove damages. Pictures of him spraying with records of wind speed and direction - documentation is important. Otherwise it's a he-said kind of thing.

Several months ago a helicopter was spraying herbicide on hardwoods in a commercial pine stand. Since we have commercial forests all around us, the sound of a swooping helicopter piques my interest, especially when I'm outside and the wind is blowing my hair. I make it a point to stand out in the middle of the hay meadow with binoculars and a camera and make sure there's absolutely no pretense I'm watching for drift. We have pines and hardwoods and a lake as well as the hay meadow and I'll be darned if some dufus is going to kill any of it just because they were in a hurry to finish the job.

It turns out the problem wasn't on our land (he would have had to hit me if the spray drifted and that has not happened so far); however, it happened on the commercial land. The pilot sprayed the SMZs (streamside management zones). "All hell done broke loose....". For those of you who own land that has an SMZ, you know how that's going to play out. Mother Nature doesn't like anyone messing with her springs or her streams and she's just as likely as not to take them underground or move them.

Don't mess with Mother Nature. Or, as we now know, Davarm.... :congrat:


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## cowboyhermit

Up here absolutely no license is required, I am surprised Texas has so many regulations 
However in the few instances I know where there was drift (proven) the applicator was held responsible, not sure how a license would help and it kinda sounds like it doesn't:dunno:


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## *Andi

cowboyhermit said:


> Up here absolutely no license is required, I am surprised Texas has so many regulations
> However in the few instances I know where there was drift (proven) the applicator was held responsible, not sure how a license would help and it kinda sounds like it doesn't:dunno:


I thought of that also ... in Virginia no license is required ... unless you buy and "store" in bulk .

:dunno:


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## Country Living

We can buy regular stuff off the shelf. If you want the good stuff, it takes a private applicator license to purchase.


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## farmers

The laws in Texas, have been put in place, to protect our water. There has been some lakes closed, because of chemical contamination.


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## LincTex

Country Living said:


> You have to have a Private Applicator license to purchase restricted use or limited use pesticides or regulated herbicides.


Not necessarily. 
In Texas, I can and do purchase quart and gallon sized 2,4-D Amine and Glyphosphate (round-up type) up to but NOT including the 2-1/2 gallon jugs.... gotta have a permit for those.


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## cowboyhermit

I am very aware of the problems chemicals cause, we hardly use any and I use none on my own place. I just doubt the effectiveness of a license, people with licenses do stupid things all the time. I can pick up a drum or and IBC tote or whatever, as long as I am not applying it "professionally" no license is required. The problems I have seen have almost all involved "professional" operators:dunno: They are on other people's land and are in a big hurry, whether or not they have a license.

Apparently we aren't going to be able to buy liquid strychnine next year, we will have to buy pre-mixed, other than that not many restrictions yet.

I hope that Davarm gets things sorted out, not a good situation


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