# Solar...Inverter HELP.



## Meerkat

I hsve read and studied on this for several weeks but not understanding like I use to [ I would say comphehending but probably. can't spell it ].

Anyway Yall helped me so much a few years ago then the SHTF and I ceased hope of soalr for awhile.

I want to run a small freezer thats about it far as emergency and it has to be regular AC as nothing DC is in my economic ballpark. 

I would love to have a Magnum or Morningstar but there're out of the park too.

So whats the next best pure sine wave inverter with low battery and voltage displays? 1000W would require 2 6v deep cycle batteries, charge controler, fuses, 400W of panels ??

Thanks again to all who helped me last time.:flower:


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## terri9630

I know nothing about solar, but wanted to say that we were worried about our freezers during power outages. When we replaced the last one we got a propane model. We have a 500 gal propane tank that runs the hot water heater, stove and now freezer. We haven't noticed much of an increase in propane usage. 

Just something to think about.


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## Meerkat

terri9630 said:


> I know nothing about solar, but wanted to say that we were worried about our freezers during power outages. When we replaced the last one we got a propane model. We have a 500 gal propane tank that runs the hot water heater, stove and now freezer. We haven't noticed much of an increase in propane usage.
> 
> Just something to think about.


 Thank you Terri but propane is not an option for other reasons.

The lights go out with storms here often. And one time a month ago they were out for awhile. It was os hot and HUMID I thought I'd pass out so thats when i said its solar time. I'm too old to be this hot.

I figure a freezer and fan with keep me cool. Long as I have ice I can survive.


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## Viking

One of the best suppliers of inverters that I have found is Don Rowe, www.donrowe.com , they have a large sellection of pure sine wave inverters at a wide variety of pricing. We bought the 2,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our motor home and the 4,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our solar backup system from them. It helps too that we were able to drive to their business which is just a bit over 100 miles to our North, saved far more money on fuel than it would have cost to have it shipped to our home. Sometimes it pays to do the research to find local vendors, we've probably saved close to a $1,000 on shipping costs by doing so, just for those two systems.


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## Meerkat

Viking said:


> One of the best suppliers of inverters that I have found is Don Rowe, www.donrowe.com , they have a large sellection of pure sine wave inverters at a wide variety of pricing. We bought the 2,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our motor home and the 4,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our solar backup system from them. It helps too that we were able to drive to their business which is just a bit over 100 miles to our North, saved far more money on fuel than it would have cost to have it shipped to our home. Sometimes it pays to do the research to find local vendors, we've probably saved close to a $1,000 on shipping costs by doing so, just for those two systems.


 Viking did my solar formular sound ok to you? Panels,Batteries inverter? What do you think ?


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## dademoss

How many watts is your freezer? How often does it come on and for how long? Start up load and running load are required to size the inverter. Total amp/watt draw per day to size the solar setup.

To size any system you have to know the load.

A little help with your calculations: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/run-refrigerator-inverter-49672.html


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## Viking

Volts X amperes= Watts Thing is starting amperage is not often stated and that's where problems can come about for minimum wattage needs. For motors, especially those that are running compressors in freezers or refridgerators, there is what's called Locked Rotor Amperage, the full amperage drawn when getting a motor to full speed and sometimes that can be twice the running amperage. Thing is, is that if your system doesn't have this figured in things may not even start up. This is why generators have a listed rating and a run rating, ie., 8,000 watts with a run rating of 7,000 watts, most inverters are listed at run rating, our Xantrex 2000 inverter is rated at 2,000 watts continuous usage but can handle a 5 second start up surge of 4,000 watts. So when you figure for total watts needed to run a fridge, figure in a start up factor otherwise it may not run, or if it does it could be prone to failures. As an example, one of our refrigerators is rated at 6.5 running amperes but it might take around 12 amps for a few seconds to get it to running rpm. 115 VAC X 6.5 amps = 747.5 watts which a 1000 watt inverter could take care of, however if the starting amps is double or 13 amps or 1,495 watts, then the inverter better be able to take care of that with a surge wattage of 1,500 or better and it is much better with higher surge watt raatings. Just as an example, Rowe has a Wagan 2203 Elite pure sine wave inverter that's listed at 1,000 watts which has a surge rating of 2,000 watts, that's 8.3 amps continuous, 16.6 surge.


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## hiwall

Here is one big enough for your freezer and a little extra. $226
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-W...40177?hash=item2ca447f4d1:g:yh4AAOSwo0JWQDiv:)


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## zimmy

I don't understand why you want a pure sine wave inverter when a modified sine (square wave modified to look like sine wave) will run just about anything you want and cost much less then sine wave.


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## zimmy

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POWERBRIGHT...c82f483&pid=100033&rk=8&rkt=8&sd=191734740177

This inverter has more power then you want and probably cost more then you want to pay but the reviews are very good and is the best bang for the buck.


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## Meerkat

dademoss said:


> How many watts is your freezer? How often does it come on and for how long? Start up load and running load are required to size the inverter. Total amp/watt draw per day to size the solar setup.
> 
> To size any system you have to know the load.
> 
> A little help with your calculations: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/run-refrigerator-inverter-49672.html


.

Thank you for site. I saved it

I haven'nt gotten one yet. I am thinking about 3 amps and 7CF. First the inverter and batteries. So I can at least have a fan til the rest is hooked up. I'll have to check and see which one is best.

Right now I just need to decide on the inverter. That ,batteries and panels will be the most money.


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## Meerkat

Viking said:


> Volts X amperes= Watts Thing is starting amperage is not often stated and that's where problems can come about for minimum wattage needs. For motors, especially those that are running compressors in freezers or refridgerators, there is what's called Locked Rotor Amperage, the full amperage drawn when getting a motor to full speed and sometimes that can be twice the running amperage. Thing is, is that if your system doesn't have this figured in things may not even start up. This is why generators have a listed rating and a run rating, ie., 8,000 watts with a run rating of 7,000 watts, most inverters are listed at run rating, our Xantrex 2000 inverter is rated at 2,000 watts continuous usage but can handle a 5 second start up surge of 4,000 watts. So when you figure for total watts needed to run a fridge, figure in a start up factor otherwise it may not run, or if it does it could be prone to failures. As an example, one of our refrigerators is rated at 6.5 running amperes but it might take around 12 amps for a few seconds to get it to running rpm. 115 VAC X 6.5 amps = 747.5 watts which a 1000 watt inverter could take care of, however if the starting amps is double or 13 amps or 1,495 watts, then the inverter better be able to take care of that with a surge wattage of 1,500 or better and it is much better with higher surge watt raatings. Just as an example, Rowe has a Wagan 2203 Elite pure sine wave inverter that's listed at 1,000 watts which has a surge rating of 2,000 watts, that's 8.3 amps continuous, 16.6 surge.


 So if my freezer is 3 amps before the surge a 1000 W inverter should do the trick? 115 x 3amps=345? Is this correct?


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## Meerkat

zimmy said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/POWERBRIGHT...c82f483&pid=100033&rk=8&rkt=8&sd=191734740177
> 
> This inverter has more power then you want and probably cost more then you want to pay but the reviews are very good and is the best bang for the buck.


 Thank you Zimmy but that one is a little much. Wonder if I could use that with just a couple panels and 2 6v deep cycle batteries?


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## Meerkat

Viking said:


> One of the best suppliers of inverters that I have found is Don Rowe, www.donrowe.com , they have a large sellection of pure sine wave inverters at a wide variety of pricing. We bought the 2,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our motor home and the 4,000 watt pure sinewave inverter/charger for our solar backup system from them. It helps too that we were able to drive to their business which is just a bit over 100 miles to our North, saved far more money on fuel than it would have cost to have it shipped to our home. Sometimes it pays to do the research to find local vendors, we've probably saved close to a $1,000 on shipping costs by doing so, just for those two systems.


 XANtrex PROwatt SW1000 pure sine wave. Could you look at this one and see what you think? I still don't know how to copy a page. Its on the site above you gave me.


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## Meerkat

hiwall said:


> Here is one big enough for your freezer and a little extra. $226
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-Sine-W...40177?hash=item2ca447f4d1:g:yh4AAOSwo0JWQDiv:)


 I put this one in shopping cart. They said last one but they may have a box of them left.

Still deciding I'd actaully rather have one made in Taiwan than Mainland China. But I do like the 2 lighted dials on this one.


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## Meerkat

Which one do yall think is best for me?

Pros and cons of the one Hiwall picked or the one Viking picked?


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## Meerkat

Hey where did yall go?


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## tmttactical

Meerkat said:


> Which one do yall think is best for me?
> 
> Pros and cons of the one Hiwall picked or the one Viking picked?


I would go with the Xantrex -- 2 year warranty

1) Canadian Parent Co.vs. China company big question?

2) No reviews on the Ebay (Reliable) Inverter but claims to have sold 28 of he same units. No model number listed in spec. details either.

Reliable Power (the manufacture has been in business only 7 years.

Just my observations, others will have additional information.


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## Meerkat

tmttactical said:


> I would go with the Xantrex -- 2 year warranty
> 
> 1) Canadian Parent Co.vs. China company big question?
> 
> 2) No reviews on the Ebay (Reliable) Inverter but claims to have sold 28 of he same units. No model number listed in spec. details either.
> 
> Reliable Power (the manufacture has been in business only 7 years.
> 
> Just my observations, others will have additional information.


 I'm kinda thinking the same way. I do appreciate Hiwall looking one up for me though was nice of him.


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## hiwall

Meerkat I really was just showing an example of what is available. I know nothing about the one I listed other than it looked inexpensive and was big enough to do what you asked.


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## tmttactical

Meerkat said:


> I'm kinda thinking the same way. I do appreciate Hiwall looking one up for me though was nice of him.


Yeah, Hiwall is a good guy, even for a hill person. just keep a close eye on them there mountain people, they will try and convert you to the white fluffy stuff. artydance:


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## Meerkat

hiwall said:


> Meerkat I really was just showing an example of what is available. I know nothing about the one I listed other than it looked inexpensive and was big enough to do what you asked.


 I know and I appreciate your helping me. I'll decide later tommorow. :flower:


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## forluvofsmoke

To run a refrigeration unit, I would recommend the Samlex SA Series Pure Sine Wave (PSW) Inverters. They are robust (industrial duty) and designed to handle reactive/fluctuating loads such as compressor motors. I've been studying off-grid systems and renewable energy for years, and these PSW inverters are a very good value. They have lighter-grade units as well, though I wouldn't feel as confident with them for refrigeration or other heavy inductive loads. One word of caution on inverters: don't go cheap, unless you don't value your equipment. I'll never buy MSW (modified sine wave) again...they can kill stuff in short order.

The 1,000 watt has 200% surge capability (2K watts)...this unit should easily handle one large deep freezer or refrigerator:
SA 1000 Specs

The 1,500 watt has 133% surge capability (2K watts):
SA 1500 Specs

If you need to hard-wire to your electrical panel, that would be easier accomplished with the SA 2000, as it has a wiring strain-relief built-in, as well as duplex outlets.

The 2000 watt has 200% surge capability (4K watts):
SA 2000 Specs

I didn't link the SA 3000 watt because it really doesn't sound like you'd need it.

The above links are from Northern Arizona Wind & Sun, however, there a few more distributors out there. Dig around for the best prices...some sites occasionally offer reduced prices that will beat others.


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## hiwall

Meerkat just to give you a real life example. I changed out the 3-way refrigerator in my RV to a 120 volt compact standard one. The one I have in there now draws 88 watts when it is running but draws just under 1200 watts when it starts up. Big difference. I have about 300 watts of solar panels on the roof to run and maintain the frig and the couple other electric things we use. The 300 watts would not be enough if we camped over a rainy week though. My panels are mounted flat so do not produce as much power as they would if angled properly to the sun. 
In my estimation for an inverter you should get a minimum 1000 watt with a 2000 watt surge capability to make sure you are covered. The surge is the big thing. Pure sine or not would be up to you to decide.
You will need a fair amount of battery power because your plan is using during bad weather when the sun does not shine much so you would be running on those batteries with little charging capacity until you got full sunny days. Your estimation of 400 watts of solar could work for you but I believe you are light on your only two batteries estimation.


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## Meerkat

hiwall said:


> Meerkat just to give you a real life example. I changed out the 3-way refrigerator in my RV to a 120 volt compact standard one. The one I have in there now draws 88 watts when it is running but draws just under 1200 watts when it starts up. Big difference. I have about 300 watts of solar panels on the roof to run and maintain the frig and the couple other electric things we use. The 300 watts would not be enough if we camped over a rainy week though. My panels are mounted flat so do not produce as much power as they would if angled properly to the sun.
> In my estimation for an inverter you should get a minimum 1000 watt with a 2000 watt surge capability to make sure you are covered. The surge is the big thing. Pure sine or not would be up to you to decide.
> You will need a fair amount of battery power because your plan is using during bad weather when the sun does not shine much so you would be running on those batteries with little charging capacity until you got full sunny days. Your estimation of 400 watts of solar could work for you but I believe you are light on your only two batteries estimation.


 Hi Hiwall, I need to vent, vract:

I'm really getting frustrated with the way most of these jerks do business. Especially MORNINGSTAR! U figure mayeb go small and expensive since we are new to this and can't afford mistakes.

They want a name adress just to give out a store location, this really makes me mad. Its none of their danm business who or where i am. I'm not wanting got get personal with these people just buy a product.

I've been checking this out for weeks now and each time i think I've made a decision more crapola. Reading 100s of custermer comments etc.

I was thinking maybe go with the Morningstar 300 w pure sine with 600 surge. But price of controler and fuse box was up there too. in the HUNDREDS TOO. So that makes it impossible unless alternative will work. Wiring is not cheap either so its going to cost for that freezer initially.

We have a few old deep cycle Trojan T105 golf cart batteries that seem ok to till we buy new ones.


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## hiwall

Meerkat said:


> Hi Hiwall, I need to vent, vract:
> 
> I'm really getting frustrated with the way most of these jerks do business. Especially MORNINGSTAR! U figure mayeb go small and expensive since we are new to this and can't afford mistakes.
> 
> They want a name adress just to give out a store location, this really makes me mad. Its none of their danm business who or where i am. I'm not wanting got get personal with these people just buy a product.
> 
> I've been checking this out for weeks now and each time i think I've made a decision more crapola. Reading 100s of custermer comments etc.
> 
> I was thinking maybe go with the Morningstar 300 w pure sine with 600 surge. But price of controler and fuse box was up there too. in the HUNDREDS TOO. So that makes it impossible unless alternative will work. Wiring is not cheap either so its going to cost for that freezer initially.
> 
> We have a few old deep cycle Trojan T105 golf cart batteries that seem ok to till we buy new ones.


I guess if it was me I would not spend the $200 for that 300 watt inverter that will do very little. It sounds like you would only be using it during an emergency and I would spend that $200 to buy one big enough to actually run something other than just a computer. Most any inverter will likely last a long time for you because of the limited usage. Normally I buy expensive name brand items that I think will be longer lasting but I a person has to be realist and if you will only use something on a very limited basis then a less expensive brand may be the way to go. YMMV


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## Meerkat

hiwall said:


> I guess if it was me I would not spend the $200 for that 300 watt inverter that will do very little. It sounds like you would only be using it during an emergency and I would spend that $200 to buy one big enough to actually run something other than just a computer. Most any inverter will likely last a long time for you because of the limited usage. Normally I buy expensive name brand items that I think will be longer lasting but I a person has to be realist and if you will only use something on a very limited basis then a less expensive brand may be the way to go. YMMV


 This is what I'm thinking too. A 3 amp small freezer shouldn't be that hard to keep going but if shtf I'd want to have it then too.


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## phideaux

Here are the inverters I use...

I believe in using the smallest possible inverters I can, in multiples , rather than put all my eggs in one basket...one big one fails, I'm dead .

I use the Kregers for up to 1500w/3000w peak, and the Harbor freight ones for up to 750w/1500w peak.
I have at least 2-4 of each.

Think separate branch cicuits, instead of one single circuit. Just me.

This Kreiger runs a 14cubic foot freezer ...no problem.

Myself and my friends have been using these for several years without any failures or problems, 
Granted they are used very little, but with redundant backups,

I feel comfortable with them, even though they are not full sine wave, and inexpensive.

https://www.amazon.com/KRIËGER®-150...sr=8-1-spell&keywords=kreiger+1500w+inverters

http://www.harborfreight.com/750-watt-continuous1500-watt-peak-power-inverter-69660.html

Jim


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## readytogo

*starting Wattage Help..*

find out your running wattage and then multiplied by 3 to get your start up wattage also the manufacture will be able to give you that information ,maybe this list would help.
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/wattageguide.html or
http://www.homelite.com/pdf/wattage_worksheet.pdf

I also got this little meter from home depot to help me with my solar power needs .
http://www.homedepot.com/p/P3-International-Kill-A-Watt-EZ-Meter-P4460/202196388
Hope I could help you.


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## Viking

zimmy said:


> I don't understand why you want a pure sine wave inverter when a modified sine (square wave modified to look like sine wave) will run just about anything you want and cost much less then sine wave.


Some of the research I've seen claims that motors run cooler with pure sinewave inverters and anything with electronic controls tends to work much better. This being said, I looked up a Power Bright 1,500 watt modified sine inverter and it had good specs for just under $130.


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## Meerkat

phideaux said:


> Here are the inverters I use...
> 
> I believe in using the smallest possible inverters I can, in multiples , rather than put all my eggs in one basket...one big one fails, I'm dead .
> 
> I use the Kregers for up to 1500w/3000w peak, and the Harbor freight ones for up to 750w/1500w peak.
> I have at least 2-4 of each.
> 
> Think separate branch cicuits, instead of one single circuit. Just me.
> 
> This Kreiger runs a 14cubic foot freezer ...no problem.
> 
> Myself and my friends have been using these for several years without any failures or problems,
> Granted they are used very little, but with redundant backups,
> 
> I feel comfortable with them, even though they are not full sine wave, and inexpensive.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/KRIËGER®-150...sr=8-1-spell&keywords=kreiger+1500w+inverters
> 
> http://www.harborfreight.com/750-watt-continuous1500-watt-peak-power-inverter-69660.html
> 
> Jim





readytogo said:


> find out your running wattage and then multiplied by 3 to get your start up wattage also the manufacture will be able to give you that information ,maybe this list would help.
> http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/wattageguide.html or
> http://www.homelite.com/pdf/wattage_worksheet.pdf
> 
> I also got this little meter from home depot to help me with my solar power needs .
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/P3-International-Kill-A-Watt-EZ-Meter-P4460/202196388
> Hope I could help you.





Viking said:


> Some of the research I've seen claims that motors run cooler with pure sinewave inverters and anything with electronic controls tends to work much better. This being said, I looked up a Power Bright 1,500 watt modified sine inverter and it had good specs for just under $130.


 Thanks everyone for your help. You all hav been so helpful in me making my decision. :wave:

I just went in dept what I said I wouldn't do to tune of $1,338.65. 

The indecision was makign me crazy. And I have been wantign to do this for years but hubby talked me out of it. This time I insisted.:dunno:

Please tell me the pros and cons of my purchase. Especially cons.

I know I still have to buy wires, batteries, fuses box. controller, etc..

Here is my Home Depot purchase. I don't know how to paste the page.:dunno:

Grape Solar 400 Watt Off Grid Solar Panel kit. Home Depot.


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## Meerkat

Hey did I do that bad, somebody tell I can take it. I think. They said it should be at the store in next several days.


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## zimmy

I don't know about the price but you did buy quality equipment.


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## LastOutlaw

I use a chest freezer that is easily converted into a fridge utilizing a plug in thermostat. Works great and I believe it pulls a whopping 130 watts a day and it is close to empty most of the time. It will make ice in the bottom and cools very well at the top. On hot days I pull out a coke and open it and it turns to slush.
Here is a link to it:
https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Cont...&keywords=chest+freezer+conversion+thermostat

This runs all day off a battery bank that I recharge nightly with a honda EU2000 generator that uses one gallon of gas for 8 hours. No solar because the lot is too shady and I don't want to leave 1200 watts of solar panels unattended in a sunny spot when I'm not there.
Oh yeah... im using a cheap harbor freight 2000 watt power inverter.

When I was trying to plan a solar system all of the solar geniuses ( which I am not) kept on me about how much power i would use. How would I know that until I set up everything Im going to run? It was un-nerving. In the end I am more of a " build a system that I can easily expand and then see how much crap I can plug in to what I built. if I need more then I expand the system. If not I can expand my draw until I hit that sweet spot.


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## Meerkat

Too bad I couldn't get 2 200 watt panels instead of 4 100 watt. Would have saved on wiring etc..

But it is what is it is and I'm glad its finally startign to happen. Hubby said its my combination gift for next few years,lol.

He is finally excited about it now too although didn't like me sneaking to buy it. 

I told him don't 'sweat it ' pun intended. We could sell some of his toys to make up for it. I need my ice and fan when powers is out in hot humid weather.


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## Meerkat

zimmy said:


> I don't know about the price but you did buy quality equipment.


 Thanks and I hope so.



LastOutlaw said:


> I use a chest freezer that is easily converted into a fridge utilizing a plug in thermostat. Works great and I believe it pulls a whopping 130 watts a day and it is close to empty most of the time. It will make ice in the bottom and cools very well at the top. On hot days I pull out a coke and open it and it turns to slush.
> Here is a link to it:
> https://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Cont...&keywords=chest+freezer+conversion+thermostat
> 
> This runs all day off a battery bank that I recharge nightly with a honda EU2000 generator that uses one gallon of gas for 8 hours. No solar because the lot is too shady and I don't want to leave 1200 watts of solar panels unattended in a sunny spot when I'm not there.
> Oh yeah... im using a cheap harbor freight 2000 watt power inverter.
> 
> When I was trying to plan a solar system all of the solar geniuses ( which I am not) kept on me about how much power i would use. How would I know that until I set up everything Im going to run? It was un-nerving. In the end I am more of a " build a system that I can easily expand and then see how much crap I can plug in to what I built. if I need more then I expand the system. If not I can expand my draw until I hit that sweet spot.


 We have plenty of sun here in Florida and place to set up solar. But if we didn't your set up sounds really nice. It took years and lots of doing without to get his little set. With help from kids and grandkids we did most of the clearing and all of the plantign after clearing. That was almost 20 years ago.


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## tmttactical

Meerkat said:


> Too bad I couldn't get 2 200 watt panels instead of 4 100 watt. Would have saved on wiring etc..
> 
> But it is what is it is and I'm glad its finally startign to happen. Hubby said its my combination gift for next few years,lol.
> 
> He is finally excited about it now too although didn't like me sneaking to buy it.
> 
> I told him don't 'sweat it ' pun intended. We could sell some of his toys to make up for it. I need my ice and fan when powers is out in hot humid weather.


Tell him it was needed to save a life --- HIS ---. A grumpy, sweaty, miserable wife is a dangerous commodity to have at home. :eyebulge: You were just looking out for his welfare. :kiss:


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## Viking

Meerkat said:


> Hey did I do that bad, somebody tell I can take it. I think. They said it should be at the store in next several days.


We bought solar panels from Grape Solar for our solar backup system, we bought them directly from the Grape Solar outlet in Eugene, Oregon, saved over $200 on shipping by doing that and that's why I tell people to check on local solar equipment suppliers.


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## smaj100

Meer, I think you will be happy with your purchase. I have been running Grape solar panels for over 3 years and 2 of the harbor frieght 2kW modified sine wave inverters for the same amount of time. The grape panels work awesome and even produce some power under full moon conditions. It's kinda cool checking the mppt charge controller in the middle of the night with a full moon and seeing the charge light on.  Things I've learned with solar. Battery storage is the key and wiring properly. I skimped the 1st time i installed my battery bank and hooked it too the inverter. I was constantly getting surge alarms and the inverter would shut down when the fridge kicked on or i hit it with a power tool. I rewired with a quality 2 ga wire between all the batteries and then I paid the $$ and bought 00ga wire and hooked the batteries to the inverter. That stopped all of the alarms and it's been running trouble free since. We use the system to provide heat lamps for the chicken coop in the winter and fans and the fridge in the summer.


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## Meerkat

tmttactical said:


> Tell him it was needed to save a life --- HIS ---. A grumpy, sweaty, miserable wife is a dangerous commodity to have at home. :eyebulge: You were just looking out for his welfare. :kiss:


 LOL, yea nothing like a heat wave hot flash combo to change a personality,quick!. :shtf2:



Viking said:


> We bought solar panels from Grape Solar for our solar backup system, we bought them directly from the Grape Solar outlet in Eugene, Oregon, saved over $200 on shipping by doing that and that's why I tell people to check on local solar equipment suppliers.


 I agree thats why I went to local Home Depot so if problem I may get help.


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## Meerkat

smaj100 said:


> Meer, I think you will be happy with your purchase. I have been running Grape solar panels for over 3 years and 2 of the harbor frieght 2kW modified sine wave inverters for the same amount of time. The grape panels work awesome and even produce some power under full moon conditions. It's kinda cool checking the mppt charge controller in the middle of the night with a full moon and seeing the charge light on.  Things I've learned with solar. Battery storage is the key and wiring properly. I skimped the 1st time i installed my battery bank and hooked it too the inverter. I was constantly getting surge alarms and the inverter would shut down when the fridge kicked on or i hit it with a power tool. I rewired with a quality 2 ga wire between all the batteries and then I paid the $$ and bought 00ga wire and hooked the batteries to the inverter. That stopped all of the alarms and it's been running trouble free since. We use the system to provide heat lamps for the chicken coop in the winter and fans and the fridge in the summer.


 I agree and thank you.


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## Meerkat

Still waiting for delivery to store that said it should be here anyday.

I'll need to buy wiring and batteries too. So I'll buy wires batters as we can afford.

Right now I need to study what you all have told us about wire.

When I say' I' I mean hubby.


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## Meerkat

smaj100 said:


> Meer, I think you will be happy with your purchase. I have been running Grape solar panels for over 3 years and 2 of the harbor frieght 2kW modified sine wave inverters for the same amount of time. The grape panels work awesome and even produce some power under full moon conditions. It's kinda cool checking the mppt charge controller in the middle of the night with a full moon and seeing the charge light on.  Things I've learned with solar. Battery storage is the key and wiring properly. I skimped the 1st time i installed my battery bank and hooked it too the inverter. I was constantly getting surge alarms and the inverter would shut down when the fridge kicked on or i hit it with a power tool. I rewired with a quality 2 ga wire between all the batteries and then I paid the $$ and bought 00ga wire and hooked the batteries to the inverter. That stopped all of the alarms and it's been running trouble free since. We use the system to provide heat lamps for the chicken coop in the winter and fans and the fridge in the summer.


 Thank you again Smaj.. I'm going through the post now to make sure we don't get the wrong kind of wiring. Tomorrow we go buy the batteries, have to drive about 80 miles where they sell Trojan T105s. Also try to buy wire then too.

I think we should buy wirign at lowes or home depot, it may be cheaper. What do yall think?


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## Caribou

Meerkat said:


> I think we should buy wirign at lowes or home depot, it may be cheaper. What do yall think?


Lowe's, online, local electrical supplier, local solar dealer. There must be more places to price it at.


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## Meerkat

Caribou said:


> Lowe's, online, local electrical supplier, local solar dealer. There must be more places to price it at.


 Maybe one of the box stores will be cheaper? I'm thinking Home Depot because thats where we got the soalr and freezer. I like Loews best but didn't find solar kit there. Plus I was really tired of looking and studing. Its better now that hubby is helping.


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## phideaux

You mentioned that your buying Trojan batteries, 
Most Battery specialty stores sell the made cables, at different lengths, ready to go.

Buying the wire, requires buying the proper size lugs, solder, 
and time to properly solder them to the wires using a torch.

Just saying.



Jim


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## Meerkat

phideaux said:


> You mentioned that your buying Trojan batteries,
> Most Battery specialty stores sell the made cables, at different lengths, ready to go.
> 
> Buying the wire, requires buying the proper size lugs, solder,
> and time to properly solder them to the wires using a torch.
> 
> Just saying.
> 
> Jim


 Some of the wires are included in the solar kit. I think we need to the wires from inverter to house. And maybe a fuse box? Not real sure yet. Been busy with garden and try ing to learn so much at once.


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## Meerkat

Still waiting to buy batteries and wires. Hopefully sometime next week.


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## Viking

Meerkat said:


> Still waiting to buy batteries and wires. Hopefully sometime next week.


If I had tons of money I would buy much better named batteries, Trojan, AMG type or perhaps the Rolls Royce of batteries, Surrette batteries which have really high amp hour ratings, but with our budget, research and personal experience, we are using Costco 6 volt golf cart batteries, very decent price for 205 amp hour rating. Remember to keep all your DC wires, from solar panels to solar controller to batteries and batteries to inverter as short as possible, also properly sized as it doesn't take much length or too small of wire size to have voltage losses, it's also a good reason to have high cell count solar panels that will produce higher voltages with the use of MPPT solar controllers, that way if you have a long run from the solar array to the controller a bit of voltage drop probably won't make much difference if the panel output is around 20 volts. The 12 volt system on our motor home I believe has 36 cell panels that under full sun put out over 20 volts, so if it's a hazy, cloudy or low fall or spring sun,
we still get more than enough voltage to charge the batteries, I'm not so sure a 32 cell panel could do that.


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## LastOutlaw

Meerkat said:


> Still waiting to buy batteries and wires. Hopefully sometime next week.


HEHEH 
Ive got 4 of these: 
http://www.renogy.com/renogy-300-wa...solar-panel/?gclid=CJ71s_T72M4CFQIaaQodGKEOqQ

And one of these:
https://www.solar-electric.com/midn...r-black.html?gclid=COudzIr82M4CFQ2UaQodwwoAMw

Brand new...been in my storage shed wrapped up for a year now waiting on me to buy batteries and a 48 volt inverter.

Feeling half way there.

You might try running a craigslist ad for the wire. I did that and got 200 ft of awg2 wire for $100.
It was left over from a construction job.

Also keep in mind there are a number of different ways to wire these systems to help with voltage drop problems or to cut heavy wire costs. 
Higher voltage means lower amperage thereby needing smaller/cheaper wire and things like that. Look at it a number of different ways.


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## Meerkat

Viking said:


> If I had tons of money I would buy much better named batteries, Trojan, AMG type or perhaps the Rolls Royce of batteries, Surrette batteries which have really high amp hour ratings, but with our budget, research and personal experience, we are using Costco 6 volt golf cart batteries, very decent price for 205 amp hour rating. Remember to keep all your DC wires, from solar panels to solar controller to batteries and batteries to inverter as short as possible, also properly sized as it doesn't take much length or too small of wire size to have voltage losses, it's also a good reason to have high cell count solar panels that will produce higher voltages with the use of MPPT solar controllers, that way if you have a long run from the solar array to the controller a bit of voltage drop probably won't make much difference if the panel output is around 20 volts. The 12 volt system on our motor home I believe has 36 cell panels that under full sun put out over 20 volts, so if it's a hazy, cloudy or low fall or spring sun,
> we still get more than enough voltage to charge the batteries, I'm not so sure a 32 cell panel could do that.


 Thanks fro help. We went into dept for them but it took several years of waiting. And I can't stand to be without certain things. Weather is gettign worse now too
g



LastOutlaw said:


> HEHEH
> Ive got 4 of these:
> http://www.renogy.com/renogy-300-wa...solar-panel/?gclid=CJ71s_T72M4CFQIaaQodGKEOqQ
> 
> And one of these:
> https://www.solar-electric.com/midn...r-black.html?gclid=COudzIr82M4CFQ2UaQodwwoAMw
> 
> Brand new...been in my storage shed wrapped up for a year now waiting on me to buy batteries and a 48 volt inverter.
> 
> Feeling half way there.
> 
> You might try running a craigslist ad for the wire. I did that and got 200 ft of awg2 wire for $100.
> It was left over from a construction job.
> 
> Also keep in mind there are a number of different ways to wire these systems to help with voltage drop problems or to cut heavy wire costs.
> Higher voltage means lower amperage thereby needing smaller/cheaper wire and things like that. Look at it a number of different ways.


 Thanks L.O.L.:2thumb: haha, Last Out Law.

We just gto back with batteries. they did the battery cable wires righ there in their shop at battery store, crimped them 3 times.

Now have to get wire to run to house. We will not be wiring to the house just a plug for a couple things. MAyeb once we get use to solar will do more.


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## Caribou

Probably a bit late with this, sorry. When sizing DC wire you figure both directions. If it is ten feet from point A to point B then for AC you are sizing for a ten foot run where for DC you figure for a twenty foot run.


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## 1XJ99

Meerkat said:


> XANtrex PROwatt SW1000 pure sine wave. Could you look at this one and see what you think? I still don't know how to copy a page. Its on the site above you gave me.


I have this set up, and it will work. The key
is in the batteries, and keeping them charged.
We lost power at 1:00pm Saturday, and regained
power Monday at 6:30pm. (Hurricane Matthew)

It kept the fridge running enough not to lose any
food what so ever. I have thermometers in the 
fridge, and freezer.

The key was to keep the batteries charged, and 
use it intermittently. As long as the freezer door
stays closed, you can make it happen!

That being said, I'm looking in to a quite Honda
2000 watt inverter generator just to pull fridge/
freezer duty.

This is what saved my food...























































Kept the batteries charged with the Jeep's
alternator. Not the best way, but it worked.

Two deep cycle batteries, always kept up on a 
float charger. Will look in to a small quiet generator
for back up.


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## Meerkat

1XJ99 said:


> I have this set up, and it will work. The key
> is in the batteries, and keeping them charged.
> We lost power at 1:00pm Saturday, and regained
> power Monday at 6:30pm. (Hurricane Matthew)
> 
> It kept the fridge running enough not to lose any
> food what so ever. I have thermometers in the
> fridge, and freezer.
> 
> The key was to keep the batteries charged, and
> use it intermittently. As long as the freezer door
> stays closed, you can make it happen!
> 
> That being said, I'm looking in to a quite Honda
> 2000 watt inverter generator just to pull fridge/
> freezer duty.
> 
> This is what saved my food...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kept the batteries charged with the Jeep's
> alternator. Not the best way, but it worked.
> 
> Two deep cycle batteries, always kept up on a
> float charger. Will look in to a small quiet generator
> for back up.


 Great set up. Thanks fro reply.

I took back the solar and now waiting to see if the gestapos here in Florida will ban personal solar come Nov.8th.on ammendment 1. Seems they have teamed up with the corporations to stop citizens from having solar.


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## Meerkat

UPDATE on gestapos, they LOST! Hard to beleive but we can still have private solar here in florida.artydance::cheers:

Now I have to start trying to get up money for a small system again. 

I had the Trojan deep cycle batteries and hubby took them for his golf cart so thats another $800 to come back up with. He really needed them though his were over 12 yr.s old which is long life even for Trojan.

Anyway Home Depot took the s$1300 solar kit back without problem.

I did get my medium size freezer and so that is done. 

I can't thank all of you here enough for all the knowledge you have and how much it helped us. Learnig gso much from yall will make this next set up so much easier. :wave:


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## Meerkat

I still want the 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter though but may go with less battery power at least at first. Charg controller may be in the $400 range.


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## AmmoSgt

Just some off the wall thoughts if it is ice you want how about one of these 
https://www.amazon.com/Igloo-ICE103...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=PRJJ7TQ5Z7WJZ877RW6W 22 pounds of ice a day and only uses 2 amps ( 240 watts )

and to stay cool https://www.amazon.com/Frigidaire-F...82265694&sr=1-2&keywords=Room+air+conditioner

450 watts you just set up a small room with a window as your cool room and take you breaks in there when it is too hot

way less watts need way less solar and inverter 1000 watt inverted should do the job nicely

Something to keep in mind a watt is a watt but an amp is not an amp that is to say 1 amp at 12 volts is 12 watts and 1 amp at 120 volts is 120 watts if you are running off 12 volt dc batteries thru an inverter to 120 volts ac an appliance that needs 2 amps @120 volts =240 watts will need

20 amps @ 12 volts =240 watts ...

and these really work https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&k...targid=kwd-32386652459&ref=pd_sl_4ygbo8eln2_b check out the different ones some work better than others


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## Meerkat

Thanks Ammo, that little ice maker is a great idea if it does what it says espeically for $128. The window unit says its 115 watts,would that make it about 6amps?

Cooling towels,never heard of before. Goodbye hot flash hello cool. 

I don't want to wait but don't want to get in dept. Wait too long and we may forget most of whatwe learned.


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## AmmoSgt

Meerkat said:


> Thanks Ammo, that little ice maker is a great idea if it does what it says espeically for $128. The window unit says its 115 watts,would that make it about 6amps?
> 
> Cooling towels,never heard of before. Goodbye hot flash hello cool.
> 
> I don't want to wait but don't want to get in dept. Wait too long and we may forget most of whatwe learned.


You really need to google the manual for each that 115 is probably just the fan the manual says 450 for cooling and there is probably a bit of a spike on kick in

I have similar ice machine one of my "Trade Items" will be ice .. mines a slightly bigger model does 46 pounds a day ( day being a full 24 hours ) but it kicks out the first batch pretty quick like 15-20 minutes .. it fills up with ice and trips a shutoff switch and you have to manually empty it to do another batch. sits right on the kitchen counter.

towel video 









there are also shirts made that cool you http://www.columbia.com/technology-omnifreezezero/ the ones with "air gill " will blow your mind on a hot day.. get the long sleeve ones with air gill, yes expensive, but when it's 95 and your core is living at 70 in it's own little world .. the shirt work a little differently.. they do use your sweat so you don't have to pre soak or wet them and they are dry to the touch.


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## Meerkat

We took the dive again. We so far have purchased ,

MidNite 30A KidMppt Controller.

Kotek SK2000W PSW Invereter

Trimetric 2030 Battery Monitor

Next will buy Trojan Batteries 'again' last ones went to hubby's golf cart but he really needed his ride back.

How many panels do I need and how many batteries. I want at least 500 watts and not over 600 Watts. We also want black on black or at least good mono crystalline panels that will take high Florida heat.:wave::wave:


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## LastOutlaw

Meerkat said:


> We took the dive again. We so far have puechased ,
> 
> MidNite 30W KidMppt Controller.
> 
> Kotek SK2000W PSW Invereter
> 
> Trimetric 2030 Battery Monitor
> 
> Next will buy Trojan Batteries 'again' last ones went to hubbys golf cart but he really needed his ride back.
> 
> How many panels do I need and how many batteries. I want at least 500 watts and not over 600Watts. We also want black on black or at least good monochystaline panels that will take high florida heat.:wave::wave:


Let me know how you like the midnight KID. I have one but have not wired it in. It came highly recommended by someone who knows a great deal about solar. I will be using mine to run off of four 300 watt panels in a 48 volt system with a 48 volt power inverter with eight 6volt batteries. Supposedly at the configuration I'm going to run it leaves me room to double the panels down the road if I wish.


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## Meerkat

Thanks L.O.L. And I will but still trying to figure the right size battery bank and how many panels that will work best. Is yours 30 amp too?


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## Viking

Meerkat said:


> Thanks L.O.L. And I will but still trying to figure the right size battery bank and how many panels that will work best. Is yours 30 amp too?


 Some manuals that come with controllers and inverters have info on figuring solar panels and battery bank sizes in relation to your power (Watts) needed. The higher the voltage from your solar array, within the limits of your MPPT controller, the more efficient the MPPT controller will work for charging your batteries. In our system I have a Morningstar 60 amp MPPT solar controller which will be fed by eight 195 watt panels, 1560 total watts, series/parallel for prime solar output of just over 72 volts, according to the manual the array is within the maximum operating perimeters of the controller, the output will charge a bank of twenty 205 amp hour 6 volt batteries, series/parallel for 24 volts @1025 amp hours, this feeds power to a Magnum Energy pure sinewave 4000 watt inverter/charger 120/240 VAC output. Some solar energy supply businesses also have info on figuring the necessary amount of solar panels and batteries for your power needs. Our inverter operating manual had a page for doing these figures, I used it to figure the total wattage needs for two refrigerators, a chest freezer and some lighting, mainly for emergency power, though the system does have potential for a total grid breakdown, I would have to run the system off and on in consideration of weather and nighttime when there is no solar charging.


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## LastOutlaw

Meerkat said:


> Thanks L.O.L. And I will but still trying to figure the right size battery bank and how many panels that will work best. Is yours 30 amp too?


The 4 panels on the Kid would supply 21 amps at 57.6 volts


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## LastOutlaw

Viking said:


> I would have to run the system off and on in consideration of weather and nighttime when there is no solar charging.


You could always supplement charge with a generator when needed. I have an off grid location that is run on battery bank and has no solar panels due to heavy canopy forrest. I run all day off the bank then charge at night for a few hours with a Honda eu2000i generator. It will run about 8 hours off of one gallon of fuel and is very quiet.


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