# A good shelter...for fallout/roving gangs.



## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

I'm trying to think of how to go about making my own shelter for my family possibly my church family as well. I have been doing allot of reading on the subject. I know allot of people say concrete, but I have allot of rock pile and was thinking of making the wall out of them. I also was trying to figure out all the different aspects ...power,food,sewer, air filtration, water, protection. It seems like you habeas to be rich to survive and rich I'm not. I'm open to good ideas. I also wanted to express my thankfulness for this sight and the people in it! I was even contacted and ask if I needed any help with the sight talk about blown away!!


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## efbjr (Oct 20, 2008)

Zman41 said:


> I'm trying to think of how to go about making my own shelter for my family possibly my church family as well. I have been doing allot of reading on the subject. I know allot of people say concrete, but I have allot of rock pile and was thinking of making the wall out of them. I also was trying to figure out all the different aspects ...power,food,sewer, air filtration, water, protection. It seems like you habeas to be rich to survive and rich I'm not. I'm open to good ideas. I also wanted to express my thankfulness for this sight and the people in it! I was even contacted and ask if I needed any help with the sight talk about blown away!!


Read Jerry Young's PAW book "The Slow Road" for a lot of good tips on preparing on the cheap.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

I sure will!! Thank you for the suggested book.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

efbjr said:


> Read Jerry Young's PAW book "The Slow Road" for a lot of good tips on preparing on the cheap.


Great suggestion. Here is the link to the book.

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f55/jdy-fiction-slow-road-2779/


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Just started its a easy read.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Shipping container
Large hole in a handy hill side
Tar to cover the container
5 tons of gravel for drainage
an air filtration system
Camouflage for the front doors like a ratty shack with a false wall.

Probably less than 5K if you're thrifty.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Did some research on using a cargo container and most of the reading I did says don't use one because the corners are reinforced but the side wall cannot handle the weight of being buried.


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

Zman41 said:


> I also was trying to figure out all the different aspects ...power,food,sewer, air filtration, water, protection.





Magus said:


> Shipping container
> Large hole in a handy hill side
> Tar to cover the container
> 5 tons of gravel for drainage
> ...












This one cost me less just a little less than $5K... a 10 X 56 insulated refrigerator railroad car -- reinforced, tarred and covered (not buried)...




























Excavation to cover it created a 12' wide x 7' deep water-filled moat all around it... 
- maybe I'll fill it with crocs and piranahs in summer... 
...there's razor and concertina wire all around the base, gunports in the entrance and the turret on top, and a flamethrower on each top corner.









(9 X 53 inside dimensions)
On the short shelves (8), there is a HAM/CB/Marine radio station, windspeed/direction/temperature weather and radiation monitoring equipment with probes and antennas running to the top.









*Why a railroad car?* While skiing one weekend in college, I came upon a train derailed by an avalanche with many cars tumbling hundreds of feet into a canyon. I was amazed how strong the cars were built - almost like huge steel safes! Much stronger and resilient than brittle concrete in a blast-wave or earthquake scenario.

I'm a retired engineer with security, shelter design and nuclear construction experience. The RR car was delivered for $1200 and other materials were bought from scrap yards. All welding, excavation, and other work done by me to maintain security.

- Base


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Perfect! now if I can just afford mine,I'm thinking cinder block exterior full of gravels and sand and a concrete top.then build up around it.


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Do you really think an above ground rr car is going to survive a 50psi blast wave? and what about blast valves? door...ect .


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

I looked into rail road cars they are tuff but I still think we would need to install blast doors and valves....


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

Zman41 said:


> I looked into rail road cars they are tuff but I still think we would need to install blast doors and valves....


Depends on where you live. Most people don't live in an actual blast zone so they primarily need radiation protection. I think the railroad car is a great idea and just moved it to the front of the que for my shelter.


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

BasecampUSA said:


> This one cost me less just a little less than $5K... a 10 X 56 insulated refrigerator railroad car -- reinforced, tarred and covered (not buried)...
> 
> (9 X 53 inside dimensions)
> 
> ...


A few questions if you don't mind.

How did you reinforce the rail car? What was the minimum thickness of the earth cover?

If you had a piped in water supply is there any reason you couldn't use a regular toilet instead of a chemical toilet? I would plan on running lines to an existing septic system.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

People put heavy duty doors on first strike targets like major bases. Not people on private properties since they're not the target of the blast.

Keep it low if your within a few miles of one, like major city and your largely down to can it maintain your environment and how big of a dedicated attack can it repel.No base can repel every attack.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Zman what kind of equipment do you have access to? Backhoe, concrete mixer, and other stuff I'm to lazy to think about at 20 to 0100. I'm asking because that will help me to determine the extent of what you would be able to do as far as getting it setup. 
You have to figure if you can go about 8 ft of soil onto then you are taking care of EMP, shockwave, and most fallout. However you have to take into account all that weight on top. 
I'll toss out a couple better ideas tomorrow for getting this built on the cheaper side of things. 

Shammua (not an expert at everything but damned if most of my ideas work as intended.)


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Thanks I was a Seabee in the military so I have a general idea of what I'm doing but not an expert for sure! I can get a back hoe and concrete have a friend in church that is a block layer by trait....


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

You sold me!!! Starting the search for the steal and the fabricator!


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Zman41 said:


> You sold me!!! Starting the search for the steal and the fabricator!


lol Umm care to let me in on the secret??? lol Who sold you? Were you cheap? :scratch


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## Zman41 (Apr 3, 2012)

Hmm I have to think about that ?? a bit more before I answer it...lol


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

> Do you really think an above ground rr car is going to survive a 50psi blast wave? and what about blast valves? door...ect .


Might after it's been hardened, but really bro, if you're that close your ears will blow out and maybe your eyes too.even under ground the pressure will get you unless you have all kinds of pressure seals I'd either get out of ground zero or consider a high pressure storage tank as a shelter.I have seen natural gas tanks as big as a 7 room trailer and rated 10,000 P.S.I and you know what? come to think of it, with all the heavy industry going Tango Ukelele they might PAY you to get it off their property!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Zman41, have I seen you in an equipment advertisement?


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## Thaddius (Jun 27, 2012)

There is some federal booklet on building fall out shelters.

I like the above one using double walls of block with 6 feet of dirt between.

Not so much worried about the fallout as the high water table and the nice cool root cellar effect here in our way to hot summers.

here is a link for the pdf on the above ground shelter. (It can be increased in floor size with the addition of central pillars for the roof)


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Zman41 said:


> Do you really think an above ground rr car is going to survive a 50psi blast wave? and what about blast valves? door...ect .


50 psi blast wave???

Are you planning to be 100 feet from gound zero of a strategic size nuke?

at a mile from a tactical or terrorist size device a tenth of that would be a lot.

there is a lot of open souce stuff out there about Nuclear weapons effects.
The general public overestimates them due ot Hollywood.

I inspected a completly normal wood frame house less than 2.5 miles from GZ of a tactical size nuke.
The windows were blown in, there was some charring on the side facing the Nuke.
That was it.

Blast at that point was maybe 2 psi (if memory serves) not sure about the exact number anymore..
This is available in open source documentation.

PS:
I keep trying to educate the members here about Nuclear weapons effects.

Everyone thinkns about the effect of the weapon like blast or rad as the danger. That's hollywood not the real world.

get Hollywood out of your mind folks, both rad and blast are in the big scheme negligible (unless you are AT the target or exactly downwind from it while being realtivelty close) 
Both will statistically affect only a small %age of americans directly, even in the face of a major attack.

it's the ensuing collapse of society thats worth prepping for.
Not Blast or radiation.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

I am thinking about ordering this book. It looks interestion enough.

http://undergroundshelter.org/

I have this book already. 
$50 and up underground house book.
http://undergroundhousing.com/

By combining the two similar methods and using some wood preservative reciepes from days of old, I should be able to get something in the ground.


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## ONEOLDCHIEF (Jan 5, 2012)

Zman, if you get a shipping container, look on youtube, show how to install one... 



hope this link works, or just type in... Shipping Container As An Underground Shelter 
Good luck...


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## TexasPatriot (Jun 24, 2012)

Shipping containers can be safely used. Yes, you will need to reinforce them and prepare the metal for burial, but they can be buried safely. I have been researching this for almost 2 yrs and have talked to a lot of people who have experience in underground work. As long as you plan for the weight of the earth and the movement (depending on you location) it can be done safely.


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## Redtail (Oct 17, 2008)

It's important to remember too, that even for the most powerful explosions, the pressure wave degrades exponentially with distance. It works just like a sound wave and travels at the same speed.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'd be concerned about air quality. If you're not careful you could suffocate in a buried shipping container. You probably need a carbon monoxide alarm and a carbon dioxide alarm. As well as battery operated fans to bring air in from one side and push it out on the other.


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## TexasPatriot (Jun 24, 2012)

Yes sir. We have figured our air, water, and waste water . It has been a long process but I believe it will be worth it.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

TexasPatriot said:


> Shipping containers can be safely used. Yes, you will need to reinforce them and prepare the metal for burial, but they can be buried safely. I have been researching this for almost 2 yrs and have talked to a lot of people who have experience in underground work. As long as you plan for the weight of the earth and the movement (depending on you location) it can be done safely.


flip it over & remove the wood floor. then put the steel to her.

also how about a container with poured concrete over it?
wouldn't that beef it up a bunch?

i guessing if we all had a million or two we could all build 1 hell of a good setup

however most of us just work for a living so $5,000 or maybe even 1/2 of that is about all we could come up with on short notice.

so what is the most bang for the buck?

thanks all & get digging

piglett


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## TexasPatriot (Jun 24, 2012)

I have thought about the concrete until I priced it at $90. yd. This is one of the reasons we decided to support them from within. 
Most of our costs are split up between group member, this way it is a little easier to get things done.


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## piglett (Dec 10, 2010)

i poured a 3.5" thick slab out back a couple years ago , it cost me $780 for the concrete
so if you don't go really thick i think you buy a 20' container & slab it up a for less than $5,000
now granted it depends on how far you are from a port that sells off containers
they don't all sell them. also if your in mid america finding one might be tough.

thanks all
great ideas on this thread
piglett


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