# Martial law



## gabedelgado

Hey guys, I'm curious, all this fear surrounding martial law, what is it that drives that fear? Im thinking for a regular citizen it isn't that scary, Bc thy wouldn't be armed with weapons that could be taken away. But those of us who are prepped don't want to get our things taken away, is that the overall theme of this? Or is there more cons


----------



## Cabowabo

Seeing as no one will bite I guess I will.
Martial law is the military taking control of the American population. 
In the Beginning the first things to be lost will be the Bill of Rights. All Guns will be confiscated, all means of being self sufficient will be taken away to feed the sheeple. 
The Rite of Habeus Corpus will be taken away. 

Don't expect the right to speak freely, or congregate, or travel. To control looters, to control a resistance they will stop the movement. Thats my take on it


----------



## PackerBacker

Cabowabo said:


> In the Beginning the *first things to be lost will be the Bill of Rights*. All Guns will be confiscated, all means of being self sufficient will be taken away to feed the sheeple.
> *The Rite of Habeus Corpus will be taken away. *


So we are in it now?


----------



## hiwall

Martial law would logically also remove the internet and restrict/end all communication. Radio and TV broadcasts would be restricted to military announcements and military propaganda. You would have no idea if the martial law was only in your area or nationwide.


----------



## DJgang

hiwall said:


> Martial law would logically also remove the internet and restrict/end all communication. Radio and TV broadcasts would be restricted to military announcements and military propaganda. You would have no idea if the martial law was only in your area or nationwide.


That's the scary part, not knowing until the knock on the door or driving into the road block. Guess that's why I'm not keen on bugging out too far via vehicle.


----------



## truecarnage

Martial law is the point when frankinstine realizes that his creation has broken from his control, and (THE MONSTER) instead of serving him plans to punish him or if he resist to hurt or kill him.


----------



## GrinnanBarrett

When Martial Law hits all you know what has broken loose. Consider a post Katrina New Orleans as an example. A more fearful example would be a man made excuse for imposing such a drastic measure. I try not to be a conspiracy theorist but it is something that people have to consider when you see Liberal elements going out of control in their efforts to destroy the Constitution and bring in a new document more akin to their warped ideas of how people should and need to be CONTROLLED and Taken Care of. GB


----------



## lilmissy0740

DJgang said:


> That's the scary part, not knowing until the knock on the door or driving into the road block. Guess that's why I'm not keen on bugging out too far via vehicle.


So is this why people like ham radios? What would be a good way to communicate?


----------



## BillM

lilmissy0740 said:


> So is this why people like ham radios? What would be a good way to communicate?


During Martial Law , ham radio operations would be shut down.


----------



## gabedelgado

Cabowabo said:


> Seeing as no one will bite I guess I will.
> Martial law is the military taking control of the American population.
> In the Beginning the first things to be lost will be the Bill of Rights. All Guns will be confiscated, all means of being self sufficient will be taken away to feed the sheeple.
> The Rite of Habeus Corpus will be taken away.
> 
> Don't expect the right to speak freely, or congregate, or travel. To control looters, to control a resistance they will stop the movement. Thats my take on it


Gotcha thanks. See I would venture to guess that most citizens would believe martial law is under place to protect them, and what not.


----------



## gabedelgado

hiwall said:


> Martial law would logically also remove the internet and restrict/end all communication. Radio and TV broadcasts would be restricted to military announcements and military propaganda. You would have no idea if the martial law was only in your area or nationwide.


So basically N Korea?


----------



## swjohnsey

BillM said:


> During Martial Law , ham radio operations would be shut down.


How????????????????


----------



## webeable

swjohnsey said:


> How????????????????


Blocking radio signals have happened for a long time, remember radio free europe? The signal was regularly blocked.


----------



## labotomi

Cabowabo said:


> Seeing as no one will bite I guess I will.
> Martial law is the military taking control of the American population.
> In the Beginning the first things to be lost will be the Bill of Rights. All Guns will be confiscated, all means of being self sufficient will be taken away to feed the sheeple.
> The Rite of Habeus Corpus will be taken away.
> 
> Don't expect the right to speak freely, or congregate, or travel. To control looters, to control a resistance they will stop the movement. Thats my take on it


Didn't you say the military would not do this sort of thing?

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f31/administration-wants-military-leaders-who-will-fire-u-s-citizens-16896/


----------



## labotomi

webeable said:


> Blocking radio signals have happened for a long time, remember radio free europe? The signal was regularly blocked.


Blocking a single frequency isn't difficult and since that was a broadcast meant for many people to listen it has to be sent on a single frequency.

People using ham radios would be using many frequencies unless they were making a public broadcast such as that above. It would be very difficult to block the entire spectrum available to ham operators.


----------



## Cabowabo

gabedelgado said:


> Gotcha thanks. See I would venture to guess that most citizens would believe martial law is under place to protect them, and what not.


Martial Law is to protect them. The downside is that the Military will try to put in a one size fits all solution, resulting in the lots of rights.



labotomi said:


> Didn't you say the military would not do this sort of thing?
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f31/administration-wants-military-leaders-who-will-fire-u-s-citizens-16896/


I still stand by what I said in that thread. I think the average soldier wouldn't do it. That doesn't mean that the Federal Government wouldn't try it. Also keep in mind if its country wide, who are they going to tap to come door to door?


----------



## labotomi

Cabowabo said:


> I still stand by what I said in that thread. I think the average soldier wouldn't do it. That doesn't mean that the Federal Government wouldn't try it. Also keep in mind if its country wide, who are they going to tap to come door to door?


Without the military, the Federal Government has far too few numbers to enforce martial law country wide. The States wouldn't universally agree to submit to martial law if the civilian courts were functional (this is the litmus test). If the states didn't submit, the state and local LE couldn't be counted on to participate.

The Federal Government has about 1 million employees that fall under police/justice/DHS roles. The military could add another 3 million if you include all the reserves, however not all these are combat type workers as many fill administrative rolls.

Even at 4 million (best case) it would be difficult considering the >300 million people in the US. I could possibly see martial law being implemented on a limited regional basis or as a result of some "perceived" threat of insurrection. On a national level, I don't see it as being possible.


----------



## swjohnsey

webeable said:


> Blocking radio signals have happened for a long time, remember radio free europe? The signal was regularly blocked.


Don't work like that. RFE was on a single frequency.


----------



## cowboyhermit

swjohnsey, since you used so many question marks you must really be looking for answers so I will try to help you out.
RFE was not on a single frequency. Bombs don't really care about how many frequencies you are using though.
As to how this would be done, have you heard of direction finding? Using basic equipment one can find the point of origin for a transmission. The U.S government has access to equipment slightly above the basics. Antennas used to transmit long distances tend to be large, government officials have some idea of what they look like, martial law allows them to search for them.
This might also surprise you but the U.S government has the ability to jam more than one frequency, especially in a town or urban area.
Government officials will listen to the broadcasts, this could be a concern for some, government officials will also be able to broadcast or get others to broadcast information that may not be truthful.
Sorry if this was not much help but there is lots of info if you keep looking.


----------



## DJgang

BillM said:


> During Martial Law , ham radio operations would be shut down.


Dang. I was thinking like missy too. I didn't know this. I learn something every time I visit this place.


----------



## cowboyhermit

All of this stuff should be prefaced with "They will attempt to", as in they will attempt to stop people from moving around, communicating information they do not agree with, etc.


----------



## DJgang

I look at similar thread suggestions right below on this page... Seems like we've been worried about marital law since 2008... I wonder why? 

:shtf2:


----------



## swjohnsey

cowboyhermit said:


> swjohnsey, since you used so many question marks you must really be looking for answers so I will try to help you out.
> RFE was not on a single frequency. Bombs don't really care about how many frequencies you are using though.
> As to how this would be done, have you heard of direction finding? Using basic equipment one can find the point of origin for a transmission. The U.S government has access to equipment slightly above the basics. Antennas used to transmit long distances tend to be large, government officials have some idea of what they look like, martial law allows them to search for them.
> This might also surprise you but the U.S government has the ability to jam more than one frequency, especially in a town or urban area.
> Government officials will listen to the broadcasts, this could be a concern for some, government officials will also be able to broadcast or get others to broadcast information that may not be truthful.
> Sorry if this was not much help but there is lots of info if you keep looking.


I used a bunch of ?s because the site won't take a post less than 10 characters. I know exactly how radio transmission work because I carried a little radio with me that I used to communicate with the folks who supported my team. We spent lotsa time stringin' up dipoles at night in the middle of the woods burstin' out encrypted messages.


----------



## cowboyhermit

And yet you don't know how they would go about interfering with HAMs? 
Hopefully some of what I provided will be of use to you. I could write more but the subject of this thread was more broad and there is plenty of info out there for those interested.

I think they put the character limit to encourage intelligent discussion and comments, not that your question wasn't genuine or helpful.


----------



## swjohnsey

Ka5icw The FCC monitoring station used to be right here in Kingsville. Monitoring Road is still there be the station is now abandoned. I used to run around the the guy who ran it. I know a little.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Right on, don't sell yourself short. We are never too old to learn


----------



## LongRider

gabedelgado said:


> Hey guys, I'm curious, all this fear surrounding martial law, what is it that drives that fear?


Maybe because our civil rights are being undermined. That our nation is following the same pattern that occurred in Germany prior to and during the Nazi take over and martial law there.


gabedelgado said:


> Im thinking for a regular citizen it isn't that scary,


Neither was the average German, Like our current president Hitler was voted in by the people. They were not afraid until they were being marched into ovens.


gabedelgado said:


> Or is there more cons


Are there cons to being in prison? That is what martial law is the nation becomes a prison our home our cells.


----------



## swjohnsey

Germany is a good example of what can happen. Before Hitler came to power there was about half a million Jews in Germany. Before WWII about 60% of 'em got out, 40% stayed. Of the 40% that stayed 80% died.


----------



## gabedelgado

LongRider said:


> Maybe because our civil rights are being undermined. That our nation is following the same pattern that occurred in Germany prior to and during the Nazi take over and martial law there.
> 
> Neither was the average German, Like our current president Hitler was voted in by the people. They were not afraid until they were being marched into ovens.
> 
> Are there cons to being in prison? That is what martial law is the nation becomes a prison our home our cells.


 Very interesting input. I appreciate it. So do you feel that since the government is being pushed back against the wall, that they will put martial law in place to reshape the gov at their own will?


----------



## BillM

*Don't you*



labotomi said:


> Blocking a single frequency isn't difficult and since that was a broadcast meant for many people to listen it has to be sent on a single frequency.
> 
> People using ham radios would be using many frequencies unless they were making a public broadcast such as that above. It would be very difficult to block the entire spectrum available to ham operators.


Don't you have to have a Ham operators license to operate a Ham radio?

When you applied for your ham license, didn't you have to put a name and address on that application?

Can't the government locate a radio signals location via satilite/


----------



## labotomi

BillM said:


> Don't you have to have a Ham operators license to operate a Ham radio?


Legally yes. In reality... no.



BillM said:


> When you applied for your ham license, didn't you have to put a name and address on that application?


Do you think everyone operating a ham radio will be in the location they lived when the license was granted? Do you think the rules will be followed concerning protocols if people know they are going to be looking for them?



BillM said:


> Can't the government locate a radio signals location via satilite/


Unless you're really causing trouble, they're not going to allocate the resources to find an individual operator. In addition, the propagation of the radio signal isn't in a straight line through the atmosphere. it varies with atmospheric conditions (temperature, humidity etc). It is not going to pinpoint the origin of the signal.


----------



## dixiemama

Has anyone been able to find out what Odumba wants to happen as part of his martial law? How far would it reach past DC? Would it only be major US cities and ports? Would all roads be shut down or just major interstates? 

Please forgive my ignorance if this has been posted and answered before.


----------



## hiwall

dixiemama said:


> Has anyone been able to find out what Odumba wants to happen as part of his martial law? How far would it reach past DC? Would it only be major US cities and ports? Would all roads be shut down or just major interstates?
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance if this has been posted and answered before.


If(big if) he had a plan he sure would not let it out of the bag.


----------



## PrepN4Good

This will not advance the discussion one whit, but I will say it nonetheless: Many thanks to all the posters who are using the word "martial". When I see posters refer to "Marshall" law it's all I can do to keep my head from exploding. :ignore:

Okay, carry on.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Ham is definitely one of the most resilient forms of communication we have available but is entirely possible to block, especially in a small area such as a town or city, whether or not they will is another issue. One only has to look as far as China for example. The Chinese government officially allows and licenses it's citizens to use amateur radios so they do not want to interfere overall. That being said, look at the Firedrake program, it has been used at times to interfere with huge swaths of spectrum, though now it is directed at an ever changing list of specific frequencies. If the priority was instead to cut off ALL communications and not worry about interfering with legal users it becomes MUCH easier.

I read a really good article on Firedrake recently but of course it has been lost in the internet, here is some info.
http://www.arrl.org/news/firedrake-jammer-on-the-loose-again-in-asia
http://forums.radioreference.com/shortwave-broadcast/226167-chinese-firedrake-jammer.html


----------



## LongRider

gabedelgado said:


> Very interesting input. I appreciate it. So do you feel that since the government is being pushed back against the wall, that they will put martial law in place to reshape the gov at their own will?


My mom grew up in pre Nazi Europe and was a brown shirt before Hitler revealed his true colors. She is seeing the same things now that she saw growing up. Like school children singing the praises of Hitler being their father the savior of Germany 




The government is not being pushed up against any wall. Rather the people are being programmed. The peoples desire to get a free ride, be protected and given security increasingly empowers the government. As the populace develops a mindset that the government can solve all of our problems has our best interests at heart and is better qualified to make decisions for us. So that thinking like Chris Rocks comments are seen as normal and acceptable


> I am just here to support the President of the United States. *President of the United States is our BOSS,* but he is also&#8230; you know, *the President and the First Lady are kinda like the Mom and the Dad* of the country. *And when your Dad says something you listen, and when you don't it will usually bite you on the ass later on.* So, I'm here to support the President.


Because the belief in America is the government is better qualified to run your life than you are. Which is exactly what the German people believed and trusted. In the name of safety and security our government intrudes on our inalienable human rights, undermines the Bill Of Right and the Constitution. In the past decade we have lost the freedom of speech, the right to protest, our rights to privacy, our right to due process, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, our right to bear arms and ability to resist tyranny are all being restricted. 24/7 surveillance of the average citizen is already the norm in most US cities. Something just a few decades ago was inconceivable, less than a generation ago. Posse Comitatus is null and void the military is now authorized to detain American Citizens on US soil without warrant or due process and conducts military maneuvers in US cities with foreign Armies.

All of our media programming depicts these things as normal. If you doubt me have your cable turned off just two months than turn it back on. Watch regular TV programming. It is not just the news that is distorted regular programming has us all accepting living in a police state. TV government is all powerful with star wars data bases, space age investigative technology, profiles on every citizen, CSI has 3D holographic computers and imaging devices. If a citizen refuses to let LEO search their house, car or person they are depicted as hiding something. If they fail to produce "papers" they are some kind of sleeper terrorist or fleeing felon. If they plead they fifth they must be guilty of some crime, if they speak out or protest they are always some kind of fanatic. The government and police are always right and justified no matter what their conduct. All of which flows over into the real world. Doubt it sit on a jury sometime, the majority start form the premise that the defendant MUST be guilty otherwise they would never have been arrested. All goverment evidence and testimony is accepted at face value after all it is the government with our best interest at heart presenting it.

"put martial law in place to reshape the gov at their own will?" Government is what it always has been a self serving juggernaut. It is the people that are being reshaped. The American People have gone from being fiercely independent self reliant individualists. To a herd clamoring, begging, pleading, voting for big brother to take control. Protect them and guarantee their safety, security and prosperity. Gleefully goose steeping into their pens adjoining the gas chambers and ovens.


----------



## mtexplorer

BillM said:


> During Martial Law , ham radio operations would be shut down.


HAM radios transmit/receive station to station. They would shut down all the repeaters but they wouldn't be able to stop HAM operators from broadcasting and using mobiles to keep from being tracked. Same thing the military does, mobile radio stations relaying information. And now the newer HAM equipment has encrypted technology which prevents the goons from listening in. HAM radio technology is way advanced now. I think when SHTF the HAM's will play a crucial role in keeping the revolution informed. Maybe I'm wrong but this is how I intend to stay informed about what's really happening


----------



## TheLazyL

mtexplorer said:


> ... And now the newer HAM equipment has encrypted technology which prevents the goons from listening in. ....


I may be updated ... HAMs are not allowed to send encrypted messages so why would manufacturers build HAM radios with the capability?.


----------



## swjohnsey

In the U.S. cars cannot legally go over 85 mph, why do they make 'em to go 195.


----------



## cowboyhermit

swjohnsey, you're joking right? You can't possibly think cars cannot legally go over 85 in the U.S.


----------



## 8thDayStranger

I got some illegal cars in my driveway then


I know you can't set cruise past 85 on any of mine though


----------



## cowboyhermit

8thDayStranger said:


> I got some illegal cars in my driveway then
> 
> I know you can't set cruise past 85 on any of mine though


That's probably a good thing about the cruise control

Nothing illegal about driving over 85 on private property, a racetrack, etc, I assume the salt flats must be legal as well.


----------



## labotomi

swjohnsey said:


> In the U.S. cars cannot legally go over 85 mph, why do they make 'em to go 195.





cowboyhermit said:


> swjohnsey, you're joking right? You can't possibly think cars cannot legally go over 85 in the U.S.





8thDayStranger said:


> I got some illegal cars in my driveway then
> 
> I know you can't set cruise past 85 on any of mine though





cowboyhermit said:


> That's probably a good thing about the cruise control
> 
> Nothing illegal about driving over 85 on private property, a racetrack, etc, I assume the salt flats must be legal as well.


I understood your point swjohnsey even if others are being intentionally obtuse.


----------



## 8thDayStranger

I was headed to Florida one year and it was midnight, the roads were dead, had the radar detector going. Thought well shoot ill just hammer down as long as I can. Ran the truck to 90 and kept trying to set cruise but it wouldn't set. I thought the thing was broke. I was gettin pretty hot about it. Then I tried 85 and it set just fine till I went down a hill then it would cut off. Aggravating as all get out but I got there I guess


----------



## 8thDayStranger

labotomi said:


> I understood your point swjohnsey even if others are being intentionally obtuse.


obtuse[ uhb-toos, -tyoos ]
adjective
1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.
2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.
3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.

Which one was I? I would like to use it in a sentence later.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Who exactly is being obtuse, LazyL asked a legitimate question and swjohnsey comes back with a reply that answers nothing and isn't even close to a legitimate analogy. I think mtexplorer made some good points but I am also wondering what encryption technology is available to hams that the government can't listen to, as far as I know nothing like this is available.


----------



## LongRider

dixiemama said:


> Has anyone been able to find out what Odumba wants to happen as part of his martial law? How far would it reach past DC? Would it only be major US cities and ports? Would all roads be shut down or just major interstates?
> 
> Please forgive my ignorance if this has been posted and answered before.


I doubt it would be his plan. Though I am no great fan of his I believe when Ralph Nader on the first election night that said.


Ralph Nader said:


> Now we will see if he is Uncle Sam for the people or Uncle Tom for the corporations


He hit the nail on the head. Thirteen years prior to the election, Corporate America started contributing billions of dollars more to his campaign than the entire combined campaign budgets of both parties for the ten previous elections. All to a than unheard of collage professor but whom Madison avenue correctly concluded had the profile they needed for a president to represent Corporate America . It is why I find all these accusations of the obomination being a socialist so unproductive. Socialists take money from corporations and the wealthy to distribute the money to the people. They do not drive the tax payers in generations long debt to give trillions of dollars to corporations. Force taxpayers to buy products from corporate conglomerates like the insurance industry. Believing they are the elite qualified to dictate how we live our lives is fascist not a socialist. It is a whole different animal and with a lot more power and wealth behind it.


----------



## labotomi

8thDayStranger said:


> obtuse[ uhb-toos, -tyoos ]
> adjective
> 1. not quick or alert in perception, feeling, or intellect; not sensitive or observant; dull.
> 2. not sharp, acute, or pointed; blunt in form.
> 3. (of a leaf, petal, etc.) rounded at the extremity.
> 
> Which one was I? I would like to use it in a sentence later.





cowboyhermit said:


> Who exactly is being obtuse


Here's another one that fits; Disingenuous.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Disingenuous, I may have been that in regards to swjohnsey's rhetorical questions and incorrect assertions but I am sincere in saying there have been good points made on here by others that received flippant platitudes in return. If swjohnsey knows of encryption on ham equipment that prevents governments from listening as his post suggest, I honestly think it would have been more productive to say that than dismiss the previous post with a bad analogy.


----------



## swjohnsey

cowboyhermit said:


> Disingenuous, I may have been that in regards to swjohnsey's rhetorical questions and incorrect assertions but I am sincere in saying there have been good points made on here by others that received flippant platitudes in return. If swjohnsey knows of encryption on ham equipment that prevents governments from listening as his post suggest, I honestly think it would have been more productive to say that than dismiss the previous post with a bad analogy.


One can't prevent the government from listening to your transmission. Understanding them is a different matter. Pretty simple to encrypt using one time pad and trigraph.


----------



## cowboyhermit

I agree, as long as they are not compromised basic codes like one time pads, book codes etc are great. It is possible to not make it too apparent that one is using a code as well, because if you are under martial law and using codes or encryption you will probably be a target.


----------



## TheLazyL

swjohnsey said:


> One can't prevent the government from listening to your transmission. Understanding them is a different matter. Pretty simple to encrypt using one time pad and trigraph.


Which is still illegal (in the present time frame) for a HAM to transmit.


----------



## TheLazyL

BillM said:


> During Martial Law , ham radio operations would be shut down.


Like they did during WWI & WWII.


----------



## swjohnsey

Drugs are illegal. Speeding is illegal. People don't speed or do drugs.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Ugh, see I tried to be positive and that is the productive response People break laws, thanks for that useful info.

LazyL makes another good point, during the wars the U.S was trying to engender positive feelings from it's citizens and yet look how it treated ham operators. 
In a situation of government overreach and martial law do you think they would be more lenient?


----------



## BillS

swjohnsey said:


> Drugs are illegal. Speeding is illegal. People don't speed or do drugs.


After the collapse, if the government doesn't like what you're transmitting on your ham radio you might find yourself being the target of a drone strike.


----------



## swjohnsey

Don't think I would stay where I tranmitted for very long.


----------



## BillM

*WWII*



swjohnsey said:


> Don't think I would stay where I tranmitted for very long.


Clandestine radio operators transmited information from behind enemy lines in occupied countrys during WWII.

They had to stay hidden and on the move to keep the enemy from trangulating the location of their transmissions.

This was with 1940's techknowledgy.

Imagine how quick the government can do this now with satilite capabilitys !


----------



## cowboyhermit

And drones in a few years...


----------



## swjohnsey

BillM said:


> Clandestine radio operators transmited information from behind enemy lines in occupied countrys during WWII.
> 
> They had to stay hidden and on the move to keep the enemy from trangulating the location of their transmissions.
> 
> This was with 1940's techknowledgy.
> 
> Imagine how quick the government can do this now with satilite capabilitys !


Yep, they are very quick. Also there is about a thousand times as much radio traffic on the modern battlefield as there was in WWII. Drones fly slow. By the time some guy got lucky, heard you and called in an airstike it would be at least an hour. We used a burster that transmitted our message in a second or so. We never transmitted on the same frequency twice. We transmitted then moved.

Ordinary folks can get most of the benefits of a one time pad by using an ordinary book. Get two copies of an identical book.


----------



## cowboyhermit

We were talking about a situation of martial law, not the modern battlefield. Doesn't matter how slow they fly if they are right on top of you.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Does the U.S.military use amateur radio bands for comm? What traffic would there be on those frequencies anyways. Triangulation is as frequency specific as you make it.


----------



## swjohnsey

Yep, they could get lucky . . . or you could get unlucky. Fortunately, the guy that is flyin' the drone and the guy who is monitoring radio traffic ain't in the same state or even the same branch of the military. It took 'em almost a day to get airstrikes on target when the U.S. was attacked in Afghanistan.


----------



## swjohnsey

cowboyhermit said:


> Does the U.S.military use amateur radio bands for comm? What traffic would there be on those frequencies anyways. Triangulation is as frequency specific as you make it.


Yes. When SHTF you can use any frequency you want. Modern radio monitoring is done with a computer.


----------



## cowboyhermit

This would be in their own back yard, not Afghanistan, they would also have law enforcement, national guard, homeland security. How many bases are in the U.S? Drones are proliferating like crazy, in a few years it is hard to determine what area will not be within a few minutes of one.


----------



## swjohnsey

To provide a strike in only an hour it would take about 2,000 drones in the air 24 hours a day.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Where do you get those numbers?


----------



## swjohnsey

Made 'em up. The U.S. is about 2,000 x 3,000 miles 6,000,000 square miles. Figured a drone could be within one hour strike and cover 3,000 square miles (circle of about 100 radius). It would probably take many more.


----------



## cowboyhermit

That scenario would never happen though, it is very difficult to imagine an even distribution across the country.
Btw the U.S is about 3.8 million square miles, including Alaska and coastal/territorial waters.


----------



## jsriley5

cowboyhermit said:


> Ham is definitely one of the most resilient forms of communication we have available but is entirely possible to block, especially in a small area such as a town or city, whether or not they will is another issue. One only has to look as far as China for example. The Chinese government officially allows and licenses it's citizens to use amateur radios so they do not want to interfere overall. That being said, look at the Firedrake program, it has been used at times to interfere with huge swaths of spectrum, though now it is directed at an ever changing list of specific frequencies. If the priority was instead to cut off ALL communications and not worry about interfering with legal users it becomes MUCH easier.
> 
> I read a really good article on Firedrake recently but of course it has been lost in the internet, here is some info.
> http://www.arrl.org/news/firedrake-jammer-on-the-loose-again-in-asia
> http://forums.radioreference.com/shortwave-broadcast/226167-chinese-firedrake-jammer.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile

Many of those could easily be launched from drones. So they say "NO HAM" and you fire up the ham anyway. Even a fairly short time for some of the latest tech. And you could eat a misslile. After all they have declared martial law and that usually means they have the right to shoot you if you defy it. You could use a long long lead from your radio to the antena but you can be sure they will follow up a missle with a ground team. I have ham radio included in my preps all short range stuff so far. But don't think you can transmit anything with impunity if the .gov says not to.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Good point jsriley5, scary stuff. I also don't discount the uses for these radios, but keep my eyes open for what the government COULD do as well.


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## Magus

Any of you prepped survivalists got a short wave radio?


----------



## swjohnsey

I have a little Sony SW good for listening to what is happening in the rest of the world.


----------



## faithmarie

Yes I think I do.


----------



## TheLazyL

Magus said:


> Any of you prepped survivalists got a short wave radio?


Yes I do...


----------



## gabedelgado

LongRider said:


> My mom grew up in pre Nazi Europe and was a brown shirt before Hitler revealed his true colors. She is seeing the same things now that she saw growing up. Like school children singing the praises of Hitler being their father the savior of Germany
> Video Link:
> 
> 
> 
> The government is not being pushed up against any wall. Rather the people are being programmed. The peoples desire to get a free ride, be protected and given security increasingly empowers the government. As the populace develops a mindset that the government can solve all of our problems has our best interests at heart and is better qualified to make decisions for us. So that thinking like Chris Rocks comments are seen as normal and acceptable
> 
> Because the belief in America is the government is better qualified to run your life than you are. Which is exactly what the German people believed and trusted. In the name of safety and security our government intrudes on our inalienable human rights, undermines the Bill Of Right and the Constitution. In the past decade we have lost the freedom of speech, the right to protest, our rights to privacy, our right to due process, protection from unreasonable search and seizure, our right to bear arms and ability to resist tyranny are all being restricted. 24/7 surveillance of the average citizen is already the norm in most US cities. Something just a few decades ago was inconceivable, less than a generation ago. Posse Comitatus is null and void the military is now authorized to detain American Citizens on US soil without warrant or due process and conducts military maneuvers in US cities with foreign Armies.
> 
> All of our media programming depicts these things as normal. If you doubt me have your cable turned off just two months than turn it back on. Watch regular TV programming. It is not just the news that is distorted regular programming has us all accepting living in a police state. TV government is all powerful with star wars data bases, space age investigative technology, profiles on every citizen, CSI has 3D holographic computers and imaging devices. If a citizen refuses to let LEO search their house, car or person they are depicted as hiding something. If they fail to produce "papers" they are some kind of sleeper terrorist or fleeing felon. If they plead they fifth they must be guilty of some crime, if they speak out or protest they are always some kind of fanatic. The government and police are always right and justified no matter what their conduct. All of which flows over into the real world. Doubt it sit on a jury sometime, the majority start form the premise that the defendant MUST be guilty otherwise they would never have been arrested. All goverment evidence and testimony is accepted at face value after all it is the government with our best interest at heart presenting it.
> 
> "put martial law in place to reshape the gov at their own will?" Government is what it always has been a self serving juggernaut. It is the people that are being reshaped. The American People have gone from being fiercely independent self reliant individualists. To a herd clamoring, begging, pleading, voting for big brother to take control. Protect them and guarantee their safety, security and prosperity. Gleefully goose steeping into their pens adjoining the gas chambers and ovens.




Appreciate all that insight.


----------



## muskratmama

Cabowabo said:


> The Rite of Habeus Corpus will be taken away.


I'm OK with that. Freemasonry scares me.


----------



## Turtle

muskratmama said:


> I'm OK with that. Freemasonry scares me.


I'm sorry, but I feel that I must inquire:

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?


----------



## cowboyhermit

A reference to using Rite instead of Right I believe, at least I hope it's a joke


----------



## Davarm

I have my old Hallicrafter AM, tube-type shortwave receiver, should make it through an emp but without sideband I dont know how useful it would be.


----------



## faithmarie

I don't know if there is anything to this but i thought I would post it... may be nothing...:flower:


----------



## muskratmama

cowboyhermit said:


> A reference to using Rite instead of Right I believe, at least I hope it's a joke


The right to a rite of a writ. Or the body can leave the building. It was a joke.


----------



## Turtle

muskratmama said:


> The right to a rite of a writ. Or the body can leave the building. It was a joke.


Okay, it just gets hard to tell sometimes around here...


----------



## musketjim

Up here with such a large military presence martial law would be very easy to establish and maintain as long as the enforcers are fed or paid, they have families also.


----------



## cowboyhermit

A little more to add on what they "could" do, particularly with drones.http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57572207-38/dhs-built-domestic-surveillance-tech-into-predator-drones/

"CBP's specifications say that signals interception and direction-finding technology must work from 30MHz to 3GHz in the radio spectrum."

"The specifications say: "The system shall provide automatic and manual DF of multiple signals simultaneously. Automatic DF should be able to separate out individual communication links." Automated direction-finding for cell phones has become an off-the-shelf technology: one company sells a unit that its literature says is "capable of taking the bearing of every mobile phone active in a channel." "


----------



## bananagoatgruff

gabedelgado said:


> Hey guys, I'm curious, all this fear surrounding martial law, what is it that drives that fear? Im thinking for a regular citizen it isn't that scary, Bc thy wouldn't be armed with weapons that could be taken away. But those of us who are prepped don't want to get our things taken away, is that the overall theme of this? Or is there more cons


just found this today...FM3-93.40






this is the most definitive thing i have seen on fema camps and directives to kill in this army document seem to imply that these want merely be benevolent relocation sites....:ignore:


----------



## bananagoatgruff

*Fear*



gabedelgado said:


> Hey guys, I'm curious, all this fear surrounding martial law, what is it that drives that fear? Im thinking for a regular citizen it isn't that scary, Bc thy wouldn't be armed with weapons that could be taken away. But those of us who are prepped don't want to get our things taken away, is that the overall theme of this? Or is there more cons


My fear is having my kids taken away from me and raised by godless communists...ain't gonna happen ! the fear of how it goes down is real !


----------



## swjohnsey

Where are the FEMA camps?


----------



## faithmarie

I don't know if this is a good video but it said extensive list .... I know a lady who has a survival store who was given a website and she put the address in google earth and found a lot of information... If I can get the information I will post it.


----------



## DJgang

swjohnsey said:


> Where are the FEMA camps?


Anywhere that has barbed wire facing inside.


----------



## hiwall

I personally don't think about martial law. I find it to revolting to even think about for more than a couple minutes. Yes I believe it is coming but the thought is just disgusting.


----------



## BillM

Syrian rebels have captured 24 UN peacekeeper troops . It will be interesting to see how the U S Government involves its self in this matter.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Good to know even way up in Canada we will have a FEMA camp nearby. We can get help from two governments


----------



## faithmarie

Is Obama's Dep't Of Homeland Security Planning Open War In America?

The Denver Post, on February 15th, ran an Associated Press article entitled Homeland Security aims to buy 1.6b rounds of ammo, so far to little notice. It confirmed that the Department of Homeland Security has issued an open purchase order for 1.6 billion rounds of ammunition. As reported elsewhere, some of this purchase order is for hollow-point rounds, forbidden by international law for use in war, along with a frightening amount specialized for snipers.

1.6 billion rounds of ammo. Enough to fight a "hot war" for 20 years. Why?

Also reported elsewhere, at the height of the Iraq War the Army was expending less than 6 million rounds a month. Therefore 1.6 billion rounds would be enough to sustain a hot war for 20+ years. In America.

Add to this perplexing outré purchase of ammo, DHS now is showing off its acquisition of heavily armored personnel carriers, repatriated from the Iraqi and Afghani theaters of operation. As observed by "paramilblogger" Ken Jorgustin last September:

[T]he Department of Homeland Security is apparently taking delivery (apparently through the Marine Corps Systems Command, Quantico VA, via the manufacturer - Navistar Defense LLC) of an undetermined number of the recently retrofitted 2,717 'Mine Resistant Protected' MaxxPro MRAP vehicles for service on the streets of the United States."

These MRAP's ARE BEING SEEN ON U.S. STREETS all across America by verified observers with photos, videos, and descriptions."

Regardless of the exact number of MRAP's being delivered to DHS (and evidently some to POLICE via DHS, as has been observed), why would they need such over-the-top vehicles on U.S. streets to withstand IEDs, mine blasts, and 50 caliber hits to bullet-proof glass? In a war zone&#8230; yes, definitely. Let's protect our men and women. On the streets of America&#8230; ?"

&#8230;

"They all have gun ports&#8230; Gun Ports? In the theater of war, yes. On the streets of America&#8230;?

Seriously, why would DHS need such a vehicle on our streets?"

Why indeed? It is utterly inconceivable that Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano is planning a coup d'etat against President Obama, and the Congress, to install herself as Supreme Ruler of the United States of America. There, however, are real signs that the Department bureaucrats are running amok.

About 20 years ago this columnist worked, for two years, in the U.S. Department of Energy's general counsel's office in its procurement and finance division. And is wise to the ways. The answer to "why would DHS need such a vehicle?" almost certainly is this: it's a cool toy and these (reportedly) million dollar toys are being recycled, without much of a impact on the DHS budget. So&#8230; why not?

Remember the Sequester? The president is claiming its budget cuts will inconvenience travelers by squeezing essential services provided by the (opulently armed and stylishly uniformed) DHS. Quality ammunition is not cheap. (Of course, news reports that DHS is about to spend $50 million on new uniforms suggests a certain cavalier attitude toward government frugality.)

Spending money this way is beyond absurd well into perverse. According to the AP story a DHS spokesperson justifies this acquisition to "help the government get a low price for a big purchase." Peggy Dixon, spokeswoman for the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center: "The training center and others like it run by the Homeland Security Department use as many as 15 million rounds every year, mostly on shooting ranges and in training exercises."

At 15 million rounds (which, in itself, is pretty extraordinary and sounds more like fun target-shooting-at-taxpayer-expense than a sensible training exercise) &#8230; that's a stockpile that would last DHS over a century. To claim that it's to "get a low price" for a ridiculously wasteful amount is an argument that could only fool a career civil servant.

Meanwhile, Senator Diane Feinstein, with the support of President Obama, is attempting to ban 100 capacity magazine clips. Doing a little apples-to-oranges comparison, here, 1.6 billion rounds is &#8230; 16 million times more objectionable.

Mr. Obama has a long history of disdain toward gun ownership. According to Prof. John Lott, in Debacle, a book he co-authored with iconic conservative strategist Grover Norquist,

"When I was first introduced to Obama (when both worked at the University of Chicago Law School, where Lott was famous for his analysis of firearms possession), he said, 'Oh, you're the gun guy.'

I responded: 'Yes, I guess so.'

'I don't believe that people should own guns,' Obama replied.

I then replied that it might be fun to have lunch and talk about that statement some time.

He simply grimaced and turned away. &#8230;

Unlike other liberal academics who usually enjoyed discussing opposing ideas, Obama showed disdain."

Mr. Obama? Where's the disdain now? Cancelling, or at minimum, drastically scaling back - by 90% or even 99%, the DHS order for ammo, and its receipt and deployment of armored personnel carriers, would be a "fourfer."

The federal government would set an example of restraint in the matter of weaponry.
It would reduce the deficit without squeezing essential services.
It would do both in a way that was palatable to liberals and conservatives, slightly depolarizing America.
It would somewhat defuse, by the government making itself less armed-to-the-teeth, the anxiety of those who mistrust the benevolence of the federales.
If Obama doesn't show any leadership on this matter it's an opportunity for Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, and Rep. Michael McCaul, chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security, to summon Secretary Napolitano over for a little national conversation. Madame Secretary? Buying 1.6 billion rounds of ammo and deploying armored personnel carriers runs contrary, in every way, to what "homeland security" really means. Discuss. source - Forbes

?


----------



## hiwall

Last year DHS had a $8 billion excess in their dept that they carried over to this year. An extra 8 billion dollars!!


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## BillS

Magus said:


> Any of you prepped survivalists got a short wave radio?


I don't see any reason to have one. I don't have anybody to talk to over short wave. I don't want to make myself a target either.


----------



## BillS

bananagoatgruff said:


> just found this today...FM3-93.40
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is the most definitive thing i have seen on fema camps and directives to kill in this army document seem to imply that these want merely be benevolent relocation sites....:ignore:


I'm not convinced that the document is real. I want to see the whole thing. Not just a few pages and parts of pages. The little that we see looks legit but it easily could have been taken out of context from another document. Yes, there are job openings for internment/resettlement specialist but there's nothing to indicate that the job is meant for interning Americans on US soil.


----------



## Magus

BillS said:


> I don't see any reason to have one. I don't have anybody to talk to over short wave. I don't want to make myself a target either.


You don't know what a short wave is for do you Bills?
None of mine can transmit at all.
I listen to the world and even a bit of World wide Christian Radio for REAL news.you'd love brother Stair, he's just like you.


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## janisekoestner2

cowboyhermit said:


> Ham is definitely one of the most resilient forms of communication we have available but is entirely possible to block, especially in a small area such as a town or city, whether or not they will is another issue. One only has to look as far as China for example. The Chinese government officially allows and licenses it's citizens to use amateur radios so they do not want to interfere overall. That being said, look at the Firedrake program, it has been used at times to interfere with huge swaths of spectrum, though now it is directed at an ever changing list of specific frequencies. If the priority was instead to cut off ALL communications and not worry about interfering with legal users it becomes MUCH easier.
> 
> I read a really good article on Firedrake recently but of course it has been lost in the internet, here is some info.
> http://www.arrl.org/news/firedrake-jammer-on-the-loose-again-in-asia
> http://forums.radioreference.com/shortwave-broadcast/226167-chinese-firedrake-jammer.html


Well, in China, the amateur radios as well as the rf jammers are always allowed to us.


----------



## cowboyhermit

janisekoestner2 said:


> Well, in China, the amateur radios as well as the rf jammers are always allowed to us.


Isn't that what I said?:scratch



cowboyhermit said:


> Ham is definitely one of the most resilient forms of communication we have available but is entirely possible to block, especially in a small area such as a town or city, whether or not they will is another issue. One only has to look as far as China for example. *The Chinese government officially allows and licenses it's citizens to use amateur radios* so they do not want to interfere overall. That being said, look at the Firedrake program, it has been used at times to interfere with huge swaths of spectrum, though now it is directed at an ever changing list of specific frequencies. If the priority was instead to cut off ALL communications and not worry about interfering with legal users it becomes MUCH easier.


Sorry if I am missing something:dunno:


----------



## LongRider

faithmarie said:


> Is Obama's Dep't Of Homeland Security Planning Open War In America?


Could you please post links to these articles?


----------



## bananagoatgruff

*the perimeter has been compromised*



Cabowabo said:


> Martial Law is to protect them. The downside is that the Military will try to put in a one size fits all solution, resulting in the lots of rights.
> 
> I still stand by what I said in that thread. I think the average soldier wouldn't do it. That doesn't mean that the Federal Government wouldn't try it. Also keep in mind if its country wide, who are they going to tap to come door to door?


Dempsey the pasty faced joint chief of staff...muslim sympathizing piece of dung shows definitively that the military has been compromised from top to bottom...there are a few patriots left in the armed forces who believe in the oath sworn to protect the Constitution but they are quickly being run out of the service, and anybody that thinks different is not paying attention...will the military turn on the people I believe the answer is a definitive yes...they theoretically already have !


----------



## faithmarie

LongRider said:


> Could you please post links to these articles?


I will look for the links .. I have to back and see what I even posted... brain freeze ... But I saw this last night... it is a little over done but there is truth in it also.... I think...


----------



## BillS

Magus said:


> You don't know what a short wave is for do you Bills?
> None of mine can transmit at all.
> I listen to the world and even a bit of World wide Christian Radio for REAL news.you'd love brother Stair, he's just like you.


I have a short wave radio for receiving radio broadcasts. I got that a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, it's meant to be a travel radio for traveling overseas. The only thing I can pick up here are American programs rebroadcast on shortwave. I knew a guy who had a small, portable shortwave radio. He said he used to listen to music countdown shows from Australia. I bought the radio to listen to foreign broadcasts but the radio I got doesn't do that.


----------



## BillS

gabedelgado said:


> Very interesting input. I appreciate it. So do you feel that since the government is being pushed back against the wall, that they will put martial law in place to reshape the gov at their own will?


No, the government isn't being pushed back against the wall. Government tyranny is growing. We see it in the news every week coming from the militarized police all over the country. We see it in huge SWAT team raids for minor infractions. DHS has bought 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammo. The government is conditioning people to accept tyranny and brutality. You can only be outraged so many times before you don't react anymore.

Martial law would never be a good thing. It wouldn't be necessary either. They could just send the national guard into places like New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. They could keep people safe without restricting their movements. They could protect property by shooting looters on sight. They wouldn't have to go into people's homes and confiscate their guns like the police did in New Orleans.


----------



## Magus

BillS said:


> I have a short wave radio for receiving radio broadcasts. I got that a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, it's meant to be a travel radio for traveling overseas. The only thing I can pick up here are American programs rebroadcast on shortwave. I knew a guy who had a small, portable shortwave radio. He said he used to listen to music countdown shows from Australia. I bought the radio to listen to foreign broadcasts but the radio I got doesn't do that.


Look for an "in" jack on the side of it that says "ant" or antenna.if it has one,I can fix that crap right up!


----------



## SuspectZero

Isolated martial law has been used many times recently. Look at Katrina, the average citizen that we are talking about was escorted out of their home and had their firearms taken from them. These people were not looters or vandals but neighborhoods forming watches to protect themselves. Martial law strips all rights our constitution gave us. Another example is the Boston bombings. Im all for them cathing him but at the same time it was average citizen that found him not the thousands of officers that had the entire area on curfew and stripped people in the middle of streets.

Bills is correct. It would not be good for anything. Many countries in the middle east have had their militaries pushing their own people back and look how that is working out. The average citizen should be scared of it if the want to keep the freedoms our founding fathers fought so hard for.


----------



## Turtle

BillS said:


> No, the government isn't being pushed back against the wall. Government tyranny is growing. We see it in the news every week coming from the militarized police all over the country. We see it in huge SWAT team raids for minor infractions. DHS has bought 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammo. The government is conditioning people to accept tyranny and brutality. You can only be outraged so many times before you don't react anymore.
> 
> Martial law would never be a good thing. It wouldn't be necessary either. They could just send the national guard into places like New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. They could keep people safe without restricting their movements. They could protect property by shooting looters on sight. They wouldn't have to go into people's homes and confiscate their guns like the police did in New Orleans.


So, just to be clear...

You believe that it would be a GOOD idea for the government to put soldiers in place and instruct them to shoot American citizens on sight if that soldier believes the citizen to be in the process of committing a crime? Without due process of law? Without an opportunity to defend oneself in a court of law and be judged by a jury of their peers? To allow a soldier to serve as judge, jury, and executioner?

Suppose a homeowner were to return to their house after a disaster to find the door jammed, possibly due to shifting debris or a tweaked doorframe and had to break a window to gain entry into their own home. Now, a soldier may see this from half a block away and assume that a looter is breaking in to the house. Instead of investigating this, you believe it would be a good idea to shoot the homeowner on sight? What if a teenager was trying to return home, had lost their keys in the disaster, and tried to climb in through a window? Shot on sight? Good plan.

To paraphrase Doc Holliday in the movie, "Tombstone": It would appear, BillS, that your hypocrisy knows no bounds.


----------



## BillS

Magus said:


> Look for an "in" jack on the side of it that says "ant" or antenna.if it has one,I can fix that crap right up!


Thanks. I'll have to try that.


----------



## BillS

There's no point in discussing what would be legal during martial law because the government doesn't care what's legal or not.

With martial and the lawless society we have there would be all kinds of crimes carried out against civilians. Such as groups of soldiers abducting teenage girls at gunpoint.


----------



## hiwall

BillS said:


> There's no point in discussing what would be legal during martial law because the government doesn't care what's legal or not.
> 
> With martial and the lawless society we have there would be all kinds of crimes carried out against civilians. Such as groups of soldiers abducting teenage girls at gunpoint.


Quoted for truth.
The law would be whatever a lowly private said it was if out of sight of his CO. Not that the Co would be any better.
Martial law is the one thing we can't really prep for (other than stashes). It is the SHTF scenario most likely to end my life (I don't take orders well).


----------



## dave_fuches

earlier there was mention of shutting down ham radios during martial law. what about marine band or the gmrs radios from walmart? does anyone know is there any means of communication that would be available?


----------



## BillS

dave_fuches said:


> earlier there was mention of shutting down ham radios during martial law. what about marine band or the gmrs radios from walmart? does anyone know is there any means of communication that would be available?


I can't think of any but what would there be to communicate? At best, you'd be getting whatever rumors or 10th hand information is out there. If you've ever played the telephone game you'd know how information gets distorted as it gets passed on. I was on the church prayer chain before email. People were supposed to write down word for word what was read to them and then confirm it with the person who called them. Even then, things got really distorted sometimes.


----------



## cowboyhermit

dave_fuches said:


> earlier there was mention of shutting down ham radios during martial law. what about marine band or the gmrs radios from walmart? does anyone know is there any means of communication that would be available?


Anything that is transmitted wireless can be interfered with, ham is about as good as it gets for really long range wireless communication imo. Gmrs for instance is only a short range option because of the frequencies and the power allowed and it can be interfered with or tracked easily.


----------



## LongRider

bananagoatgruff said:


> will the military turn on the people I believe the answer is a definitive yes...they theoretically already have !


While there are those in all walks of life that just follow orders. Many of our men and women in the military are very aware of the freedoms and liberties that they are putting their lives on the line to protect. They see the effect that tyranny has on a people and society. No doubt at some point they discuss what they would do if ordered to violate the Oath they swore to protect and defend the Constitution. Turn on their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunt and uncles in the way that Saddam's army, Al Qaeda and the Taliban has done in the countries our warriors have fought to liberate.

Of course we have all seen the horrific actions that occurred during Katrina. People being torn from their homes even beaten down and stripped of their guns. As wrong as that was, we should keep in mind that was a pretty unique set of circumstances. It was a relatively short term event of epic proportions with many LEO volunteers and National Guard reserves from all around the country. Many without the slightest clue of what Louisiana's or New Orleans's guns laws were. Many of them have had nothing except for the kool aid they have been fed their entire lives. Folks tend to believe that what they know and have experienced as being universal. Those from, fascist cities like New York, San Fransisco, Chicago, Washington D.C. in states like Kalifornia, Illinois New Jersey and New York, may have never seen nor heard of a law-abiding citizen with guns in their entire life. In all of their experience the only folks who ever had guns were violent criminals many likely cop killers. So they did what they knew, disarmed all the cop killing criminals they encountered with guns. But all it takes is one knowledgeable honorable member of a unit to correct those misconceptions and beliefs. There were less publicized examples of that occurring during Katrina. Suppose the powers that be do not want it widely advertised that soldiers and law enforcement can and have refused to obey unconstitutional and unlawful orders. That they have done so with impunity. 
Take a look at Oath Keepers. We are by no means alone. Nor are all of our military and LEO made up entirely of mindless sheep. I believe more than ever those that serve are conscientious men and women dedicated to upholding and protecting the Constitution against all comers foreign and domestic. Turning them against their beliefs, to act against the love they have for our nation as well as their families and loved ones will be a much harder task than some seem to assume.


----------



## BillS

LongRider said:


> While there are those in all walks of life that just follow orders. Many of our men and women in the military are very aware of the freedoms and liberties that they are putting their lives on the line to protect. They see the effect that tyranny has on a people and society. No doubt at some point they discuss what they would do if ordered to violate the Oath they swore to protect and defend the Constitution. Turn on their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, aunt and uncles in the way that Saddam's army, Al Qaeda and the Taliban has done in the countries our warriors have fought to liberate.
> 
> Of course we have all seen the horrific actions that occurred during Katrina. People being torn from their homes even beaten down and stripped of their guns. As wrong as that was, we should keep in mind that was a pretty unique set of circumstances. It was a relatively short term event of epic proportions with many LEO volunteers and National Guard reserves from all around the country. Many without the slightest clue of what Louisiana's or New Orleans's guns laws were. Many of them have had nothing except for the kool aid they have been fed their entire lives. Folks tend to believe that what they know and have experienced as being universal. Those from, fascist cities like New York, San Fransisco, Chicago, Washington D.C. in states like Kalifornia, Illinois New Jersey and New York, may have never seen nor heard of a law-abiding citizen with guns in their entire life. In all of their experience the only folks who ever had guns were violent criminals many likely cop killers. So they did what they knew, disarmed all the cop killing criminals they encountered with guns. But all it takes is one knowledgeable honorable member of a unit to correct those misconceptions and beliefs. There were less publicized examples of that occurring during Katrina. Suppose the powers that be do not want it widely advertised that soldiers and law enforcement can and have refused to obey unconstitutional and unlawful orders. That they have done so with impunity.
> Take a look at Oath Keepers. We are by no means alone. Nor are all of our military and LEO made up entirely of mindless sheep. I believe more than ever those that serve are conscientious men and women dedicated to upholding and protecting the Constitution against all comers foreign and domestic. Turning them against their beliefs, to act against the love they have for our nation as well as their families and loved ones will be a much harder task than some seem to assume.


I think what happened with Katrina was a test case for how the government would handle cities during martial law. They wouldn't let people in or out or allow groups to bring supplies in. The police confiscated guns from law abiding citizens but let the criminals run free. FEMA talked about helping but ultimately did nothing. Expect them to handle martial law the same way in the future.


----------



## LongRider

BillS said:


> I think what happened with Katrina was a test case for how the government would handle cities during martial law. They wouldn't let people in or out or allow groups to bring supplies in. The police confiscated guns from law abiding citizens but let the criminals run free. FEMA talked about helping but ultimately did nothing. Expect them to handle martial law the same way in the future.


If that is the case we made huge progress. Because as a result of the actions during Katrina any state county or municipality that attempts to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens during a crisis automatically forfeits any and all federal aid. It is also what motivated the formation of the *Oath Keepers* that has and is doing great work in educating LEO and the Military about the importance of their keeping the oath they swore to uphold. As well as creating an effective support network among military and LEO committed to keeping their oath.


----------



## SuspectZero

Many Military and LEO's depending on the situation will be more focused on helping their family than upholding Martial Law if shtf. Oath Keepers will obey Constitutional orders hopefully and more may stand up realizing what they are doing but Boston should be an example of how quickly a city can be put under Martial Law. I think it is all situation dependent. If it was a true teotwawki situation Martial Law would be hard to enforce country wide.
Martial Law is a genuine fear to have but I think other horrors would soon evolve making it hard. Famine, gangs, running and protecting the power grid are among some. 3rd world countries can give us great incite on what to prepare for.


----------



## gysgtdchsr7292

Has anyone heard rumors of possible martial law being en-acted sometime in October, LEO enforcement with the military, and homeland security involvement. Possibly backed up by foreign troops? Can anyone think of any special event that may take place in October? Signing of any significant piece of legislation? Anything? I had heard about something similar last year or the year before but it was just bovine scat, I'm hearing it again but now with a time frame not mentioned before. Or is this just one of those things that go around to stir up trouble?


----------



## Justaguy987

gysgtdchsr7292 said:


> ......bovine scat......


Hahahaha!!!


----------



## BillS

gysgtdchsr7292 said:


> Has anyone heard rumors of possible martial law being en-acted sometime in October, LEO enforcement with the military, and homeland security involvement. Possibly backed up by foreign troops? Can anyone think of any special event that may take place in October? Signing of any significant piece of legislation? Anything? I had heard about something similar last year or the year before but it was just bovine scat, I'm hearing it again but now with a time frame not mentioned before. Or is this just one of those things that go around to stir up trouble?


I expect a stock market crash in October. It could be a 1987 type crash or a 1929 type crash. I think 1929 is more likely.

It's possible we'll be at war with Iran. Iran claims to have thousand of jihadist fighters in the country. If there a hundreds of terrorist attacks on American soil it would be a perfect time to have martial law.

I've read some things online that seem to indicate that the government is preparing for some event in October. One possibility: nuclear false flag attack on an American city.


----------



## gysgtdchsr7292

BillS said:


> I expect a stock market crash in October. It could be a 1987 type crash or a 1929 type crash. I think 1929 is more likely.
> 
> It's possible we'll be at war with Iran. Iran claims to have thousand of jihadist fighters in the country. If there a hundreds of terrorist attacks on American soil it would be a perfect time to have martial law.
> 
> I've read some things online that seem to indicate that the government is preparing for some event in October. One possibility: nuclear false flag attack on an American city.


Nice...nice...nice


----------



## hiwall

October works well for me. I rather hope SHTF at that time.


----------



## Outpost

gysgtdchsr7292 said:


> Has anyone heard rumors of possible martial law being en-acted sometime in October, LEO enforcement with the military, and homeland security involvement. Possibly backed up by foreign troops? Can anyone think of any special event that may take place in October? Signing of any significant piece of legislation? Anything? I had heard about something similar last year or the year before but it was just bovine scat, I'm hearing it again but now with a time frame not mentioned before. Or is this just one of those things that go around to stir up trouble?


I'm not one who necessarily subscribes to the panic-theory-of-the-moment, but I must admit, considering the fuhrer's recent speech pertaining to "fundamental change in our gun laws", I can't rule out the possibility.

While I don't actually want to believe it will happen in my lifetime, I'm forced to accept the real possibility that there are those currently in positions of authority and power who would be willing to engage the American people in ways reminiscent of Syria. There is genuine evil operating within our own system. The question is then, what is the appropriate (read ethical yet effective) course of action?


----------



## urbanprepping

ML would more in the large metro areas to protect the elitist. 
There aren't enough soldiers or police to make ml happen nationwide.


----------



## LincTex

LongRider said:


> Because as a result of the actions during Katrina any state county or municipality that attempts to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens during a crisis automatically forfeits any and all federal aid.


It was a huge wake-up call.... It's actually a good thing it happened the way it did.

A few did have to suffer, but the good of the greater occurred. Sheeple awoke.



urbanprepping said:


> There aren't enough soldiers or police to make it happen nationwide.


No, but the argument has always been that foreign troops are trained to help out.... but I doubt they would pull in many. Who wants to go defend a land that isn't theirs... against armed citizens that sure as hell don't want them there? 
"Afghanistan again" here, anyone?


----------



## hiwall

> There aren't enough soldiers or police to make it happen nationwide.


Many say this but they have plenty to put check points on all roads in and out of towns. So they could stop all road travel. They could easily stop all communications. They would have complete control of food and other supplies going to cities. They could easily have control over all electric service. If you control travel, communications, food, and power then I would say that you have total control.


----------



## Outpost

hiwall said:


> Many say this but they have plenty to put check points on all roads in and out of towns. So they could stop all road travel. They could easily stop all communications. They would have complete control of food and other supplies going to cities. They could easily have control over all electric service. If you control travel, communications, food, and power then I would say that you have total control.


On top of that, they also control the money.
Local, County, and State LEO and other emergency-responders are folks who need to eat as much as the rest of us. What are they going to do when the funding for their positions is threatened?

I really don't see M.L. as a viable option though, at least not yet. If it happened tomorrow, it would be too much of a big red flag, and would result in very serious societal resistance (even from many in the lunatic-left).

The frog isn't quite sufficiently boiled yet. The next step will be the public outcry to get rid of the guns.... or something similar.... Then, when we no longer have the hardware to say 'no', maybe then M.L. will be viable for them. Not before though..... It's just too dangerous a step.

Just my take on it...
Your mileage may vary!

But i do agree completely with your checkpoint / choke theory.


----------



## faithmarie

I found this interesting... or if not .. nothing to see here ....


----------



## dave_fuches

i'm new to prepping but martial law is still scary. the confiscation of guns would lead to bloodshed and the loss of our bill of rights (although it's basically gone already) is frightening.

i don't have a lot of supplies, food, weapons, survival gear etc but i don't have to worry one bit about any of it being confiscated. i bury everything "offsite" and even though it's not far away, in the event of the declaration of martial law, transportation to and from my caches might prove adventurous. 

if martial law is apparent, i recommend caching underground. i've never lost anything by doing so because i know my stuff is safe and sound where no one can find it.


----------



## musketjim

Martial law is an ever present danger here because of the massive military, Army and Air Force, in our area compared to the civilian population. Our main highway running south is on Air Force property. It is actively patrolled and monitored by both military law enforcement and state troopers and can be completely barricaded and checkpoints set up in a matter of minutes. If we are not at BOL when shtf we will not get there, but people in that area will have access to the cabins. Preps must be buried at BOL because eventually they will not be able to pay or feed the troops at which points barricades will be deserted and you can attempt to drive thru bands of marauders and get to your BOL and start battling the squatters. Whoever wins will then be able to struggle with -60 and colder temps. and snow, in cabins that may be bullet ridden or burned out shells. We can attempt to survive on what we can hunt, along with every other person in interior Alaska. Woods will be so thick with hunters you'll have to shoot thru them to hit whatever animal population is left after being devastated by so many hunters. Fish in rivers will be cleaned out in a matter of months. Growing season is so short many will eat their seed stock instead of planting. That's the problem with martial law.:flower:


----------



## Erick3758

Im pretty sure Israel is going to readdress irans nuke program very soon.there are still a lot of things going on that have the potential for the USA to get involved.


----------



## BillS

Outpost said:


> I'm not one who necessarily subscribes to the panic-theory-of-the-moment, but I must admit, considering the fuhrer's recent speech pertaining to "fundamental change in our gun laws", I can't rule out the possibility.
> 
> *While I don't actually want to believe it will happen in my lifetime,* I'm forced to accept the real possibility that there are those currently in positions of authority and power who would be willing to engage the American people in ways reminiscent of Syria. There is genuine evil operating within our own system. The question is then, what is the appropriate (read ethical yet effective) course of action?


The government is preparing for martial law. DHS has bought 1.6 billion rounds of hollow point ammo. Local police forces have been supplied with military vehicles. We'll have martial law sooner rather than later because there's a dollar collapse coming. The Fed creates $80 billion a month out of thin air. And that's just the money they're using to buy toxic mortgages. They're also funneling money to the big banks at almost 0% interest so they can buy treasury bonds and still make a profit. In exchange they're not putting all their foreclosed properties on the market at the same time. The economy is weak and getting weaker all the time. Hours worked continue to drop nationally as companies replace full time workers with part time workers to escape Obamacare.

I can guarantee you that the world you live in five years from now will be totally unlike the world of today. You see, with a dollar collapse people won't be able to buy food. There won't be electricity, running water, police, or fire protection. I expect 90% of Americans to die of starvation and the violence that will follow an economic collapse.

We'll have martial law BECAUSE of an economic collapse. When your money is too worthless to buy groceries at the grocery store we'll have a second civil war. That's what the government is preparing for.


----------



## RevWC

I guess the games are about to begin....


----------



## wtxprepper

Yeah with Senate passing the bill to delay obummercare another year but passed the bill to pay military if the gov. does shut down it could be a possibility


----------



## LincTex

BillS said:


> We'll have martial law BECAUSE of an economic collapse. When your money is too worthless to buy groceries at the grocery store we'll have a second civil war. That's what the government is preparing for.


Not sure "Civil War" would be the correct terminology.....


----------



## Outpost

DAMN!!!!!
The government shut down........!!!!!!!!

No Martial Law after all!!!!!!!

hmmmmm...... 

I guess we'll just have to do it ourselves!


----------

