# List of seed companies...



## Woody

That deal or are owned by MonSatan. And a list of truly heirloom privately owned companies. I'm really glad to see places like Bakers Creek and Pine tree on the good list. Sad to see Garden's Alive because I do buy and use some of their pest control products but not seeds.

http://www.emergencyhomesteader.com/a-complete-list-of-seed-companies-owned-by-monsanto-and-a-complete-list-of-seed-companies-not-owned-by-monsanto/


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## PackerBacker

Why are you so worried about monsanto?


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## Davarm

PackerBacker said:


> Why are you so worried about monsanto?


Theres nothing wrong with Monsanto if you dont mind all the GMO'd plants that are being created and released into the worlds seed stock creating a hazard to the purity of all the non GMO'd seeds. Thats a genie that cant be put back into the bottle once its released.

There have been court cases where the GMO'd plants have contaminated farmers fields and then they were forced to pay Monsanto damages for Patent Infringements.

Monsanto is the 800 pound gorilla hiding in the corner, ready to pounce if you question them.


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## PackerBacker

Davarm said:


> .There have been court cases where the GMO'd plants have contaminated farmers fields and then they were forced to pay Monsanto damages for Patent Infringements.


Any examples?


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## Davarm

PackerBacker said:


> Any examples?


I first heard about it on a Science Channel (Dish 193) program, and then on the same type of show on PBS it had interviews with "Canola/Rapeseed" farmers in Cananda that had been sued after trucks hauling the GMO'd seeds spilled them near/on their fields while on their way to market.

There were also interviews of the same circumstances with Corn farmers. Samples were also taken of corn crops in the interior of Mexico showing many of the local and unique verities(corn) contaminated. I dont think Monsanto has been down there to sue the farmers yet but it could happen there if they(Monsanto) thought they could get any damages from them. Bottom line is that the local verities have been contaminated.

Dont remember the name of any of the programs but I am sure that someone on the forum can offer more input on it.

I did a quick search, dont have time to read through all the results for more examples but this is a Vanity Fair article that gives some background.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805


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## AuroraHawk

http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=GMO&filter=onlinearticles&sorting=newest

This page shows 10 of 20 online articles that reference GMOs. I whittled it down from the 100 articles that included articles published in Mother Earth News magazines and not readily available (as far as I know) to the general public.

Davis and I visited a meat market, 20 miles from here, to check out an alternate source for meats because almost anything we purchase from the local chain stores has been fed on GMO grains and been pumped full of antibiotics. We are tired of paying chicken prices for 15% saline solution pumped into the chicken, too.

I want to make certain that all of the seeds I purchase are non-GMO. Thanks for the link, Woody.


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## *Andi

PackerBacker said:


> Any examples?


I have always found it best for a person to their own research ...

Why waste my time on something that you question, when you can check yourself ... if you want.

It is only a click away ... if you want it.


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## Jim1590

Well, shameless plug but neseed is 100% non GMO.

Learned recently that monsanto will require gps locations of all fields planted with their seeds. I think they want to be able to say that the field is x number of miles from the non GMO crops so there is no chance of cross contamination. Really the biggest danger is in some seasonal employee grabbing some seeds and bringing them home for use not knowing what they grabbed.

I am not aware of any lawsuits, but I could be wrong.


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## PackerBacker

Davarm said:


> I first heard about it on a Science Channel (Dish 193) program, and then on the same type of show on PBS it had interviews with "Canola/Rapeseed" farmers in Cananda that had been sued after trucks hauling the GMO'd seeds spilled them near/on their fields while on their way to market.
> 
> There were also interviews of the same circumstances with Corn farmers. Samples were also taken of corn crops in the interior of Mexico showing many of the local and unique verities(corn) contaminated. I dont think Monsanto has been down there to sue the farmers yet but it could happen there if they(Monsanto) thought they could get any damages from them. Bottom line is that the local verities have been contaminated.
> 
> Dont remember the name of any of the programs but I am sure that someone on the forum can offer more input on it.
> 
> I did a quick search, dont have time to read through all the results for more examples but this is a Vanity Fair article that gives some background.
> 
> http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805


Let me tell you. It wasn't "contaminated". He planted it and got caught.


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## PackerBacker

*Andi said:


> I have always found it best for a person to their own research ...
> 
> Why waste my time on something that you question, when you can check yourself ... if you want.
> 
> It is only a click away ... if you want it.


He made the claim.

If you are going to bad mouth a company I would think you would have a pretty good example pretty handy.


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## Jim1590

Also don't forget that GMO seeds do not produce viable seeds. So contamination should only be present for one growth cycle. I am not trying to defend the GMO seed, just throwing that out there.


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## PackerBacker

AuroraHawk said:


> http://www.motherearthnews.com/search.aspx?search=GMO&filter=onlinearticles&sorting=newest
> 
> This page shows 10 of 20 online articles that reference GMOs. I whittled it down from the 100 articles that included articles published in Mother Earth News magazines and not readily available (as far as I know) to the general public.
> 
> Davis and I visited a meat market, 20 miles from here, to check out an alternate source for meats because almost anything we purchase from the local chain stores has been fed on GMO grains and been pumped full of antibiotics. We are tired of paying chicken prices for 15% saline solution pumped into the chicken, too.
> 
> I want to make certain that all of the seeds I purchase are non-GMO. Thanks for the link, Woody.


You can't realistically buy GMO for your garden if you wanted. Buying from that list doesn't get you either one. (GMO or guarnteed nonGMO)


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## PackerBacker

JimMadsen said:


> Also don't forget that GMO seeds do not produce viable seeds.


That isn't true.

Hybrid seed, like corn doesn't. That is true if t's GMO or not.

OP seed, like soybeans do. GMO or not..


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## Jim1590

OP, ID, HL should produce usable seed of the desired type.

Hybrid should revert back to one of the parents if it does in fact have usable seeds.

I was thinking GMO corn, sorry about that. I do not have much exp with GMO, just what I have read. If a GMO seed is OP then yes it may reproduce to type unless monsanto turned that part off.

Come to think of it, I have 4 GMO danio fishes in my tank. They are called glofish and I do not plan on eating them (yet anyways.) It is my understanding that they can reproduce and make another glofish. They have a coral gene implanted.

Another tidbit: GE is another term being branded about, stands for genetically engineered. So if you see that.....


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## AuroraHawk

PackerBacker said:


> You can't realistically buy GMO for your garden if you wanted. Buying from that list doesn't get you either one. (GMO or guarnteed nonGMO)


I should have said, "I don't want to purchase seed that is GMO contaminated."

I'll be purchasing all heirloom and open pollinated seeds and want to know what I will be getting at harvest time.


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## AuroraHawk

JimMadsen said:


> Come to think of it, I have 4 GMO danio fishes in my tank. They are called glofish and I do not plan on eating them (yet anyways.) It is my understanding that they can reproduce and make another glofish. They have a coral gene implanted.


Do they have a coral gene implanted or were they injected with dyes? Or, perhaps have a gene from one of the fish which actually do glow naturally?


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## PackerBacker

AuroraHawk said:


> I should have said, "I don't want to purchase seed that is GMO contaminated."
> 
> I'll be purchasing all heirloom and open pollinated seeds and want to know what I will be getting at harvest time.


Do you plant anything that could even be contaminated with GMO?


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## Davarm

PackerBacker said:


> Let me tell you. It wasn't "contaminated". He planted it and got caught.


References? Documentation?



PackerBacker said:


> He made the claim.
> 
> If you are going to bad mouth a company I would think you would have a pretty good example pretty handy.


If you are going to defend someone you need to have more than an "I dont Believe You" line.

How did the farmers in Mexico who only plant local, traditional verities of corn that Monsanto hasn't GMO'd, wind up with their seed contaminated. I'll tell you how its done, the wind blows pollen from GMO'd crops into fields of local verities and pollinates it. Thats where the danger lies, it cant be prevented.

Also, dont forget pollinating insects, they dont restrict themselves to only GMO'd or Non GMO'd fields.


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## Jim1590

AuroraHawk said:


> Do they have a coral gene implanted or were they injected with dyes? Or, perhaps have a gene from one of the fish which actually do glow naturally?


A gene implanted into the first batches, think the following births retained the gene.

http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp


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## Jim1590

Davarm said:


> Also, dont forget pollinating insects, they dont restrict themselves to only GMO'd or Non GMO'd fields.


If those bees knew what was good for them, they would stop infringing on monsantos copyrights! :club: lol


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## AuroraHawk

PackerBacker said:


> Do you plant anything that could even be contaminated with GMO?


Potatoes, soy beans, corn, squash, beets


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## AuroraHawk

JimMadsen said:


> A gene implanted into the first batches, think the following births retained the gene.
> 
> http://www.glofish.com/faq.asp


Very cool! I've been out of the hobby for more than 10 years and haven't kept up with what has been happening.

If your danios are zebra danios similar to those in the picture, you could easily raise a hatch or two and have lots of them. PM if you would like some fish breeding tips.


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## Woody

You folks who think that there is nothing wrong with any GMO or GE crops are free to go ahead and plant then eat all you wish. Those of us who have doubts about the safety of such crops will try and avoid them. Why pull or hoe weeds when you can spray herbicides?

Same goes for meat and meat products. If you are happy eating meats and meat products that have been raised using antibiotics (more than is necessary that is) and fed GMO or GE feeds go right ahead and eat away. Those of us that have doubts about the health benefits of such products will avoid them, simple as that.


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## siletz

I would suggest doing your own research in regards to the companies you will trust. There is a similar conversation on another forum I frequent. Someone there shared this letter from the owner of Nichols Seeds, which is on the Monsanto list. If this list is wrong about Nichols, then I would not trust it for the other companies without doing some research first.



Hello, 

Let me assure you we at Nichols Garden Nursery have no association with Monsanto or it's subsidiaries. A few years ago Monsanto purchased a fine vegetable seed company Seminis to our dismay. We began actively seeking out and running comparison trials of comparable vegetable varieties and I believe it has now been three years since we offered any Seminis seeds. I'm still enormously saddened by this acquisition of a fine company with knowledgeable breeders and staff. One by one our old Seminis friends have either been terminated or drifted away. 


We share your unwillingness to offer economic support to Monsanto and are not involved with GMO/genetically engineered seeds in any way. I hope I have allayed your concerns and have to say things get into print that are not always reliable.


Thank you for being our customer and writing to us about your concerns. A very Happy New Year to you.


Happy Gardening.
Rose Marie Nichols McGee


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## labotomi

Davarm said:


> References? Documentation?
> 
> If you are going to defend someone you need to have more than an "I dont Believe You"


The trial documents spell it out clearly. He was a thief.

Surely you didn't read the articles posted on the internet but not research the actual trial

Only someone who has already decided who they believe (facts be damned) would ignore the most factual source of information when it conflicts with the decision they've already made.


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## PackerBacker

AuroraHawk said:


> Potatoes, soy beans, corn, squash, beets


Only one of the things you listed even has a realistic chance of being accidentally contaminated. Corn. And seed producers go to great lengths to avoid cross pollination. Not only with GMO corn but any corn.

GMO potatoes are not in production either.


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## PackerBacker

Woody said:


> You folks who think that there is nothing wrong with any GMO or GE crops are free to go ahead and plant then eat all you wish. Those of us who have doubts about the safety of such crops will try and avoid them. Why pull or hoe weeds when you can spray herbicides?
> 
> Same goes for meat and meat products. If you are happy eating meats and meat products that have been raised using antibiotics (more than is necessary that is) and fed GMO or GE feeds go right ahead and eat away. Those of us that have doubts about the health benefits of such products will avoid them, simple as that.


Avoid it if you want. That's fine. But base your fears on sound facts. Not internet gossip.

BTW Your OP has nothing to do with avoiding GMO. It was only about avoiding companies that do business with Monsanto.


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## PackerBacker

Davarm said:


> References? Documentation?.


Without an understanding of the production of the crop it is futile.


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## Davarm

PackerBacker said:


> Without an understanding of the production of the crop it is futile.


If you dont have an understanding of the production of the seed crop, I suggest you educate yourself.

"I" do understand the production of seed crops, I have worked for several different seed producers(as a teenager) and know that cross pollination is not only possible but likely. Unfortunately one of the seed producers I worked for was Dekalb which is now owned by Monsanto.



PackerBacker said:


> GMO potatoes are not in production either.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16525866

Potatoes/Corn(and others) GM'd to produce BT were/are in widespread production and use. Just Ask McDonalds fast food chain.



labotomi said:


> The trial documents spell it out clearly. He was a thief.


Again Documentation? References?

I just re-watched the program(taped when it played) that was aired on PBS last year and the case in that one I referenced had the records sealed how did you access them? Were you involved in the case in some way? If so, you just violated the court order!

Still all you are providing is "I dont believe you"!

Phantoms in the machine: GM corn spreads to Mexico
http://www.theage.com.au/world/phantoms-in-the-machine-gm-corn-spreads-to-mexico-20100702-zu3r.html

Press Release
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2001/11/29_corn.html

Nature
http://www.nature.com/index.html?file=/nature/journal/v416/n6881/full/nature738_fs.html

Article on Mexican Corn Contamination
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Corn/MexCorn1101.cfm

October 2000: Genetically Modified Genes Found in Native Mexican Maize
http://www.historycommons.org/timel...mln&seeds_cases_studies-gm_crops=seeds_mexico


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## PackerBacker

You got me. I only stayed at a holiday inn last night. 

I understand how the crop is produced. 

http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/percy-schmeiser.aspx

Got anything that backs your claim that BT potatoes are in use?

Sorry I ain't going to ask Ronald.


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## Davarm

PackerBacker said:


> You got me. I only stayed at a holiday inn last night.
> 
> I understand how the crop is produced.
> 
> http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/percy-schmeiser.aspx
> 
> Got anything that backs your claim that BT potatoes are in use?
> 
> Sorry I ain't going to ask Ronald.


Per spokespersons from the Mcdonalds Fast Food Chain several years ago, they made a public statement that they were no longer going to use GM"d(BT producing) potatoes. Too much negative feedback was received from customers regarding their french fries.

http://www.agbioforum.org/v7n12/v7n12a08-kaniewski.htm

There doesn't seem to be that much consumer feedback directed at any single user of GM'd corn as their was with the potatoes but the same BT producing gene was spliced into corn to deter worms from feeding on the roots and developing ears of the corn plants.

http://kojoreport.com/gmos-bt-corn-dangerous-failure-to-our-environment-and-health/
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/crops/00708.html
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...netically-modified-crops-insects-emerged.aspx

BT(Bacillus thuringiensis) is considered an "Organic" pesticide when harvested from the ground dwelling "Gram Positive" bacteria it is naturally found in. Monsanto spliced the gene responsible for its production into Corn and Potatos the fear was that it would spread into non target plants. I dont know about potatoes but it seems to have occurred with corn.

More fears are that the BT modified food crops could result in the following:

Gastrointestinal problems
Autoimmune diseases
Food allergies
Childhood learning disorders

There has been an increase in these problems but no solid evidence has yet been presented to support the concerns.


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## labotomi

Davarm said:


> Still all you are providing is "I dont believe you"!


You've provided nothing but a shamefully uneducated opinion.

If you want to discuss something and demand documentation from others, be sure to bring your own. Conspiracy sites and articles with an agenda aren't going to cut it in a discussion with people who know better than to accept shoddy, biased journalism or incomplete studies.


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## Davarm

labotomi said:


> You've provided nothing but a shamefully uneducated opinion.
> 
> If you want to discuss something and demand documentation from others, be sure to bring your own. Conspiracy sites and articles with an agenda aren't going to cut it in a discussion with people who know better than to accept shoddy, biased journalism or incomplete studies.


I believe I've documented my position, I stand by everything I've posted. If you dont accept it, so be it.

Have a good life, labotomi.


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## *Andi

labotomi said:


> You've provided nothing but a shamefully uneducated opinion.
> 
> If you want to discuss something and demand documentation from others, be sure to bring your own. Conspiracy sites and articles with an agenda aren't going to cut it in a discussion with people who know better than to accept shoddy, biased journalism or incomplete studies.


And you have documentation to prove that?


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## siletz

I understand this is a hot topic, but really?? One of the things that brought me to this forum over others was that the people seemed more civil in stating their opposing views. I think there is a way of having different opinions without getting belligerent about it. Lately, some seem to be more interested in winning fights than in getting more prepared. Just my 2 cents. :dunno:


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## labotomi

Davarm said:


> I believe I've documented my position, I stand by everything I've posted.


You've documented your opinion, but haven't furnished anything substantial to support that opinion. Hopefully you can see the difference.

Wikipedia isn't the best source, but this article provides very good sources data where you can look at the actual case filings, rulings and reasoning of the significant court cases brought by Mosanto or against Mosanto.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto#Litigation*

The article you first posted mentioned more than one court case, both of which are addressed in the wikipedia article and cited in the references. if you don't want to accept THAT, so be it.



Davarm said:


> Have a good life, labotomi.


I already do.


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