# In praise of the "useless" 410



## Magus

Hi, I been in here a while, you know I don't post about stuff I don't know, I'm not an armchair ANYTHING!
Today I'm here to fill you in on what the tacticools and ramboids sneer at, the lowly 410 shotgun!'

My first one was a Savage/Stevens, one of the last American made ones.still choked so tight a 40 cal slug won't slip through the bore!using simple dove shot, this cheap little working class pop-gun has killed hundreds of black birds,several egg sucking dogs,5-10- raccoons, more possums than I can count and probably 2-300 squirrels not to mention a tater sack full of snakes.most of my kills were at 75 yards(the blackbirds/dogs)and likewise for the squirrels and rabbits.now listen close, have you ever bit into a deep fried rabbit and had a tooth break out because you missed a hunk of lead?sucks huh?with the 410 you get fine accuracy, small game stopping power, and less lead to deal with after you process it!

Did I mention it won't kick hell out of you?your kids can shoot it all day long and not suffer a beating, so can older or disabled users.

Oh, and 50 rounds weigh as much as 25 rounds of 12 ga..

Now I'm going to say bull sh1t, never mind it's true.I invented the ghost ring sight! I epoxied a small eye ring off an old fishing rod into that slot they expected us to use as a rear sight and never looked back, it'll take dove on the wing out to 50 yards easy!

Now to my "customized" pet.
I call it the "bread fan" it started as a stainless steel snake charmer, I had an old Cherokee gunsmith end choke it and slap on a 22 rifle sight, I can keep my pattern inside a dinner plate at 75 yards!OBVIOUSLY it will NEVER be used with slugs and I've been tempted to add a dot scope.it resides in a pistol holster on my hip, screw the sling.LOL

My ideal hunting 410 would have an 18" barrel, slug/ghost ring sights and a bored stock for 5 rounds of extra ammo,complete with ceramic paint job and camo stock, if it shot well, it would get a holo or dot scope.

P.S
the snake charmer will shoot 45LC rat shot, the Savage will not.think its the internal choke.vract:
Good for snakes in the hen house/on the porch.


----------



## Sentry18

The .410 is not a bad caliber, it just takes a lot more practice and a lot more precision. Which means the margin for error is much larger. Most people are not willing to put in the time to become proficient with it when you can achieve the same results with say a 12 or 20 in much less time with a smaller margin of error. When I was young my cousin and I would go hunt ducks on a pass. He could drop them all day with a .410 double barrel, but in anyone else's hands it was just a noise maker. My first shotty was a 16ga Ithaca 37. Not only was I lethal with it back then, to this day I can explode clay pigeons at will with that thing. In the end I think it really comes down to preference and practice.


----------



## hiwall

I'm happy to see that I made you write a thread,Magus! 
Maybe I was a little harsh using the word "worthless". The fact is that the 410 pushes the shot out at least as fast(often faster) as larger gauges, so it hits just as hard(or harder). The big problem is the very small shot charge(number of pellets). In the hands of an expert wingshot the 410 can indeed be deadly on critters. But what about people like me? I'm a below average wingshot so larger shot charges help me hit better. With even an expert the bigger shot charge means more humane kills. Yes I've owned several 410's and have killed many different critters with them. The 410 slug at only 88 grains of weight is also a dismal performer. I did shoot my first deer with a 410 slug but I would never suggest anyone hunting deer with one.


----------



## ricepaddydaddy

My .410's are very handy around the farm for varmint contol. I've got a New England Firearms single shot i put a sling on so I can carry it and tools at the same time. In adidtion to a 22 revolver it goes with me when doing chores. i've got a butt cuff on it that holds 9 extra rounds, birdshot and buckshot.
My Stoeger Uplander SXS goes out with me at dusk to put the chickens up for the night, and again when the wife grains the horses and puts 'em up. I keep #6 birdshot in one pipe and OOO buck in the other.
And just for the heck of it (and a great woods walking gun) I've got a Mossberg 183KE two shot bolt action with C-Lect choke. She's a litle gem.
i've got 12's and 20's, but I love my .410's.


----------



## Magus

I'm hot for the Taurus carbine in 45/410!

Heh, maybe I'm just a shotgun pimp and never knew it?


----------



## ComputerGuy

We have a Turkish 410 that the wife uses for critters in the back of the land to keep the turkeys and chickens safe


----------



## Boomy

My dad had a little bolt .410. Surprised the crap out of me when I realized that I could out shoot myself with a12ga. We were chunking clays and I pinged everyone with that little bolt gun. It impressed me!!


----------



## CrazyEric

This shows you what a .410 single shot can go through.


----------



## pawpaw

I got one of those Rossi 'combo's - .22/.410. Yeah, I know, but for pure plinking fun & portability, it's a pleasure. Coincidentally Magus, I take the butt-plate off & stuff up to six extras or some fishing line & hooks, etc. in there.
I tried to get a two-man tent in it, but the butt plate was bulged...:rofl:


----------



## jsriley5

I have a spanish Eibar 410 that has killed well over a truck load of rabbits and broke its share of clays, starlings, black birds, feral cats and rats. OH and quail find the 410 to be near ideal for quail. Shame it has to be so ridiculously expensive to shoot. Need to get the loader set up just to use up the reloading supplies and maybe make a few 000 loads for it. 

I do think maybe you meant 75 feet though rather than 75 yards thats 3/4 of a football feild and seems a might optomistic to me. I've gotten a few 40 yard shots on rabbits with mine and it is a tightly choked on both barrels. Hardly ever shoot anything but 3 inch 6's in it but have hand loaded some 3 inch 8's when I was playing around shooting clays.


----------



## Magus

CrazyEric said:


> This shows you what a .410 single shot can go through.


Whoa..that was a crappy F.I.E too!wonder if I could make 410 brass cases out of .45 basic?


----------



## jsriley5

YOu can buy brass shells I got some for another project. But the 45 basic should work as well.


----------



## cowboyhermit

I love the .410 but why aren't shells cheaper?
I wouldn't ever be without a 12ga but have never seen the advantage of the smaller gauges other than the .410, for myself and family. Shot a .410 as a kid and I think it is a good way to learn, teaches good technique imo.
Unfortunately the selection and price of shells is pretty bad around here compared to 12ga.


----------



## Magus

I'm thinking about breaking that old Savage out and having a .357 sub barrel made for it.


----------



## munik

When I deer hunted years ago in Indiana, you could not use a high powered rifle. For some reason that included 410. I guess the slug would travel too far. I personally love 410. Can shoot all day...


----------



## jsriley5

most likely the 410 was removed for the oposite reason of not enough power for a reliable kill rather than a threat of too much power. Least thats how it is around here.


----------



## kappydell

my roommate became quite excited that I bought a .410 and promptly said it would be her hunting shotgun. she HATES the 12-ga and it's kick. she is very accurate with it.


----------



## jsriley5

Magus said:


> I'm thinking about breaking that old Savage out and having a .357 sub barrel made for it.


Hmm lemme know whe3re you go for that if the price aint plumb stupid maybe I could add to it and get it cheaper for both. Would move my lil 410 double up a notch in the useful guns department. could probably in a pinch and I am talking dog eat dog people are dying type pinch load it with a 44spec or even a 45 lc. But it would be much preffered to have a full barrel liner or liners I could add that would make it a nice lil 357 mag double rifle. Mostly it just sits and waits for a grandsone to get big enough to wanna shoot it some. if he does well with it might likely give it to him. I sure dont put any wear on it anymore and none of my boys were that intrested either.


----------



## Magus

I have seen sub barrels at gun shows as cheap as 50$


----------



## Indiana_Jones

Magus said:


> . . . . . I can keep my pattern inside a dinner plate at 75 yards! . . . . .


What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


----------



## JustCliff

Of all the guns I have owned and or shot. I have never shot a .410. I guess I never got around to it or had the opportunity. I do know the shells are a bit on the steep side. Maybe as I get older I will consider getting one.


----------



## jsriley5

Indiana_Jones said:


> What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


Don't go crazy here I"m sure he meant 75 feet which is still pretty darn good but still within reason. I"m sure I make mistakes too on inches feet yards and meters.


----------



## cowboyhermit

Shells aren't that bad really, just that they should be a lot cheaper than 12g imo. Can always load your own and have seen those brass casings you can buy, look pretty awesome.


----------



## Sentry18

> What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


OH BOY! Where's the popcorn.









I think jsriley5 is correct, but who knows. Magus once killed a buffalo with a razor blade and an angry look. Before it died Magus forced it to drink a shot a Jack Daniels while toasting Magus.


----------



## hiwall

Indiana_Jones said:


> What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


Sometimes it is just best to remember that you have the right to remain silent.

If Magus posted that aliens were landing tonight at midnight myself, along with many on this forum would stay up late to see what they looked like.:teehee:


----------



## Friknnewguy

Indiana_Jones said:


> What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


Magus has forgotten more about survival than I'm ever going to know . The words from his post are informative and thought provoking . One of his posts is burned into my memory and will forever change my mental prepping game . Why don't you shut your mouth and open your ears , maybe you'll learn something too .


----------



## Magus

Indiana_Jones said:


> What a ridiculous claim. It casts a shadow doubt on the rest of your post.


Just because your shotgun sucks at life doesn't mean they all do.besides, its been worked.



jsriley5 said:


> Don't go crazy here I"m sure he meant 75 feet which is still pretty darn good but still within reason. I"m sure I make mistakes too on inches feet yards and meters.


No,I mean 75 yards.If I were a betting man, I'd bet 80% would be in that plate even after all this time.



> still choked so tight a 40 cal slug won't slip through the bore!


----------



## jsriley5

Well THAT I"d have to see to beleive. It is incredible.


----------



## Magus

google old school shotgun choking methods, specifically "rolling" not many could do it, its pretty much a lost art, and if you shoot a slug in a rolled gun, you're liable to loose an inch off the end of your barrel!even if you don't, you ruined the choke.


----------



## BareGrills

A true american classic.


----------

