# What to do during Martial Law or Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis.



## PatriotSurvivalist

MARTIAL LAW

The following guide will help you plan, prepare, and get ready in the event that martial law threatens you safety and well being. It is divided into two parts. The first part describes the framework for martial law and the second part the actions to take in preparing for the actual declaration of martial law.

INTERESTING FACTS

* Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.

* Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.

* Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.

* Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.

* Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.

* Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.

* Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.

* Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."

* Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.

* Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.

* Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.
Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.

* Martial law can be declared due to natural disasters, 2012 Crisis, Stock Market crash, no electricity, riots, biological attack, .... anything leading to the breakdown of law and order.

SURVIVING MARTIAL LAW

* Prepare before any declaration of martial law by becoming self reliant. You may become subject to a bureaucratic system and be prepared to stay one step ahead of it which is easy to do if you are prepared and in a position to be self reliant.
You may also face mob rule, chaos, panic, or a complete breakdown in law and order. Survival situations may be easier to handle in rural areas than urban.

* Avoid areas of marital law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or man caused events. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas.

* Create alliances with like minded neighbors or community members that share your views. Team work and numbers may help your situation.

* Become transparent in the sense that you do not draw attention to yourself or your family. For instance, do not tell people that you are storing food just store food. Be prepared to render assistance to neighbors if need be. You never know when you will need them.

* Remain calm! Do not panic.

* Avoid areas of civil unrest if possible. If caught in civil unrest take appropriate action.

* Get informed and stay informed. Understand martial law can be a temporary crisis or an extended one. In extreme cases the shape of a whole nation can change.

* Declaration of martial law means your rights are suspended and it is government by decree. Your constitutional rights may no longer apply. This could mean a state of National Emergency.

* People can be arrested and imprisoned indefinitely without charges.

* Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly can be suspended, and censorship of the media imposed.

* Gun ownership will also come under severe attack during marital law. We could see house to house searches by the military or National Guard looking for guns and seizing any they find along with stored food.

* Take a stand on issues and make a choice that fits your beliefs and the situation. Do you believe as Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death?"

Realize you may have some hard choices to make. Understand you may have to sacrifice your principles on trivial matters or take a hard stand.

Always remember that you may have to come back and fight another day.

Disclaimer: I do not Advocate the use of VIOLENCE unless threatened with deadly force.

I also don't suggest that you take up arms against ANY type of Military Force.

Your small arms will be useless against the Full Force of the most heavily armed and well trained Military in the world.

Bug Out when possible and find somewhere to hold up until things calm down.

Save your Ammo and Small arms for Survival and Protection against marauders.

CIVIL & URBAN UNREST

* Be aware by recognizing danger. Have communication such as a radio, CB, or scanner. Use your senses. Panic spreads fast so when you feel threatened like your hair standing on end and the adrenalin working. Take action. Fight down the panic and stay calm.

* Get away-stay out of harm's way. Avoid trouble areas and/or dangerous parts of cities. Move away from dangerous cities.

* Avoid confrontation and try go around potential problems. Have an escape route that you have selected ahead of time. Remember, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." You might end up the target of a person's built up anger even though you are not a part of the problem.

* Act like the natives. Try to blend in so you don't attract attention. Be careful of what you wear. Be aware of your surroundings.

* Hide equipment/supplies away from your home. Have a retreat or place where you can escape to as a safe haven. As governments get more totalitarian they make the citizens outlaws by banning things like gun or gold. Bury things or have them hidden away.

* Learn to defend yourself. Choose an art that is compatible to your beliefs such as karate, Aikido, mace, pepper spray, or shooting. If you face trouble head on, you should resist with everything possible in a life or death situation.

* Don't get involved in mobs or mob behavior. They become mindless and objectivity is lost.

* Crushed in a crowd? Self preservation is the key. Try to ride it out like a buoy in the sea. If caught in a crowd surge, stay away from anything solid like a wall, barrier, or pillar. Keep hands out of pockets and loosen tie.

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http://www.ultimatesurvivalsupplies.com​


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## piglett

interesting read thanks for posting !


piglett


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## lotsoflead

Martial law would be very hard to enforce in this country, unlike other countries where the people only have butter knives and sticks to fight with. This country is full of young veterans who own some of the best weapons and ammo in the world and have no intention of being told what to do with their land or anyone taking it. 

I'm not into guns and at my age couldn't shoot one anyway but all one has to do is read some of the sites on the net or read about guns and ammo sales soaring, I'm sure that all the guns and ammo are not for hunting. 

Just take one large city and figure it out,LA,Chicago,NY for example where guns aren't allowed, if 20 million people in just one city got POed and hungry, how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up. While that city is being controlled, what are the other 280 million people going to be doing,laying down their weapons and throwing up their hands, I don't think so.


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## 101airborne

lotsoflead said:


> Martial law would be very hard to enforce in this country, unlike other countries where the people only have butter knives and sticks to fight with. This country is full of young veterans who own some of the best weapons and ammo in the world and have no intention of being told what to do with their land or anyone taking it.
> 
> I'm not into guns and at my age couldn't shoot one anyway but all one has to do is read some of the sites on the net or read about guns and ammo sales soaring, I'm sure that all the guns and ammo are not for hunting.
> 
> Just take one large city and figure it out,LA,Chicago,NY for example where guns aren't allowed, if 20 million people in just one city got POed and hungry, how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up. While that city is being controlled, what are the other 280 million people going to be doing,laying down their weapons and throwing up their hands, I don't think so.


Agreed... IMHO in this event smaller cities and rural areas will be pretty much on their own as the feds won't have the resources/ manpower to worry about much outside of the larger cities and maybe the "production" areas of the country.


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## Lonewufcry

thanks for the post


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## Clarice

Thanks for the good info.


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## The_Blob

lotsoflead said:


> Martial law would be very hard to enforce in this country, unlike other countries where the people only have butter knives and sticks to fight with. This country is full of young veterans who own some of the best weapons and ammo in the world and have no intention of being told what to do with their land or anyone taking it.
> 
> I'm not into guns and at my age couldn't shoot one anyway but all one has to do is read some of the sites on the net or read about guns and ammo sales soaring, I'm sure that all the guns and ammo are not for hunting.
> 
> Just take one large city and figure it out,LA,Chicago,NY for example where guns aren't allowed, if 20 million people in just one city got POed and hungry, how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up. While that city is being controlled, what are the other 280 million people going to be doing,laying down their weapons and throwing up their hands, I don't think so.


you don't control sheeple with guns... you control/enslave them with ENTITLEMENT programs


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## JayJay

lotsoflead said:


> Martial law would be very hard to enforce in this country, unlike other countries where the people only have butter knives and sticks to fight with. This country is full of young veterans who own some of the best weapons and ammo in the world and have no intention of being told what to do with their land or anyone taking it.
> 
> I'm not into guns and at my age couldn't shoot one anyway but all one has to do is read some of the sites on the net or read about guns and ammo sales soaring, I'm sure that all the guns and ammo are not for hunting.
> 
> Just take one large city and figure it out,LA,Chicago,NY for example where guns aren't allowed, if 20 million people in just one city got POed and hungry, how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up. While that city is being controlled, what are the other 280 million people going to be doing,laying down their weapons and throwing up their hands, I don't think so.


I did read a document of a Chinese leader speaking to military leaders, years ago..his point was they hadn't invaded the U.S. yet because behind every door of every household was a gun..go figure.

Regarding this:how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up.

I just finished reading an article of a new (to us) heat ray weapon being used...of course, the area affected wasn't specified..one or a crowd?? That would be the question, wouldn't it...for if you can isolate a beam and cover a town, we're toast..no pun intended!!


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## lotsoflead

The_Blob said:


> you don't control sheeple with guns... you control/enslave them with ENTITLEMENT programs


 Right, but those ENTITLEMENT programs are almost at an end meaning that there's going to be about 75 million hungry angry people.Welfare,foodstamps,Heap,SSI,extended unemployment,people getting their free fix at the drug stores, ect. whenever Chinas' off shore store (Walmart) stops selling their goods or we don't have enough money to support them, they'll pull the plug.


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## lotsoflead

JayJay said:


> I did read a document of a Chinese leader speaking to military leaders, years ago..his point was they hadn't invaded the U.S. yet because behind every door of every household was a gun..go figure.
> 
> Regarding this:how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up.
> 
> !!


 it could be one reason not spoke out loud by our government as to why people still have guns here. It certianly can't be the constitution because presidents have been walking all over it for yrs.


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## ttruscott

> Disclaimer: I do not Advocate the use of VIOLENCE unless threatened with deadly force.


Fixed:
Disclaimer: I do not Advocate the use of force unless threatened with deadly VIOLENCE.


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## SunflowerGirl

Stay away from other people and practice OPSEC.


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## SaskDame

oldsoldier said:


> Agreed... IMHO in this event smaller cities and rural areas will be pretty much on their own as the feds won't have the resources/ manpower to worry about much outside of the larger cities and maybe the "production" areas of the country.


When referencing "hungry people" in the cities as being the problem, the rural areas are where food is "produced" and will therefore be the "production" areas of the country. Armies and police departments still run on thier stomachs and my thinking would suggest they are most likely to protect thier own long term food supply.


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## BillM

*All branches of military*



SaskDame said:


> When referencing "hungry people" in the cities as being the problem, the rural areas are where food is "produced" and will therefore be the "production" areas of the country. Armies and police departments still run on thier stomachs and my thinking would suggest they are most likely to protect thier own long term food supply.


All branches of our military services have a years supply of food on hand .

Also don't worry about our federal goverment's elected officials . 
They have seen to it that they will be cared for and protected to insure COG, ( contintutity of goverment).

I knew you guys would be worried about them !


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## sailaway

I have experienced martial law twice in my life in the good ole USA. The first time was in Miami after Hurricane Andrew. Military was everywhere protecting us from ourselves keeping me from going here and there trying to get back to my routine. We had to be off the streets before dark and not aloud out until morning. Soldiers were everywhere armed with M16s. The next time was after the riots in Cincinnati about 10 years ago. I was passing through on my way home and stopped for dinner. The resturant manager quickly fed me and told me to be north of I275 by 7PM. Every one inside the I275 loop was to be off the streets and inside their homes at this time. Rather mild form of martial law, but still martial law. Just my 2 cents. I suppose I should mention Kent State it happened just up the road from me.


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## TimB

About the same quote is attributed to Japanese Admiral Yamamoto back in WWII.

“You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass.” 

I'm thinking there wouldn't be one behind each blade of grass- just every other one.  

Tim


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## IrritatedWithUS

I should buy guns for people as gifts...hmmm.... just kidding


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## vn6869

Very thought provoking


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## sailaway

Fin Feather & Fur had a December sale on S&W 38 Specials, had 3 different types, 85 of each, sold them all. It was a comforting feeling to me that 255 more hand guns hit the streets. Glad I got one of them.


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## GatorDude

Interesting read...but the one typo I found really cracked me up: 

"* Avoid areas of *marital *law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or *man caused events*. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas."

I pretty much read it as if there are troops in your local streets and the world is falling into chaos, don't piss your wife off and if you do piss her off you better be ready to run to the hills!!!


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## BadgeBunny

GatorDude said:


> Interesting read...but the one typo I found really cracked me up:
> 
> "* Avoid areas of *marital *law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or *man caused events*. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas."
> 
> I pretty much read it as if there are troops in your local streets and the world is falling into chaos, don't piss your wife off and if you do piss her off you better be ready to run to the hills!!!


:2thumb: LOL ... I read this to the hubby ... all he had to say was "Ain't that the truth!" :scratch


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## pandamonium

I also think Martial law would be difficult if not impossible to enforce on a national level. First off, the local/state leos would probably be home making sure their families were safe, I have discussed this with many troopers and local cops, that was their response. As for our military, I would like to think that they would have a difficult time getting our sons and daughters and brothers and sisters, to actually go to the most extremes of enforcing martial law, meaning firing on American citizens. And if they tried to bring in UN troops, then the S*** would REALLY hit the fan!!!

Not enough resources, too much American pride. I COULD see enforcement in localized areas of riots and looting, but just not on a national scale.


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## SaskDame

UN troops from where?


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## pandamonium

Uuhh, I dunno, whatever box or bag they keep those blue helmeted bozo wanna-bees in? :scratch

Because the US is a member of the UN, I would not put it past our overlords to request help from the UN in a case of national Martial Law. Would it happen? not likely, but......... ya never know. Are not most of the reasons why we prep and train and learn, based basicly on............ ya never know?


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## semperscott

The way our Federal govenment is expanding they have all the "trooops" they will need soon. Ever stopped to think why LEO's need to have .50 cal. rifles and other heavy ordinance. Federal LEO's have more firepower than needed for normal law enforcement duties, so why do they have them?


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## MrSfstk8d

SaskDame said:


> UN troops from where?


I think I know what you mean SD. The very same SuperPowers that provide the overwhelming majority of UN troops in the various "peace keeping" missions throughout the world are the same ones that will be falling to bits and pieces at the same time when SHTF, because thier economies are so closely linked. If the US falls, GB will fall, Canada will fall, domino, domino, domino. Maybe Ghana won't. Maybe Chechnia won't. Maybe Aruba won't. But the Big Boys will be too busy cleaning up messes in their own back yards to send troops to anyone else.

Oh, and SemperScott, when's the last time you had to intercept an armed drug carrier vessel on the high seas? Broken up an organized crime related bomb lab in downtown Chicago? Stormed a meth lab in Kentucky? I'm not saying there's a reason to have a .50 sniper in every arms room, nor that it's day to day business, but there are cases that justify a certain amount of superior firepower. My dad was a cop for years and years. He did a lot of plain clothes work, investigations, drug deals, etc. In his truck, at any given time, were 10-12 cases of his usual +p+p+ 9mm as well as 8 box of 12 ga. He didn't need them but once or twice, but he said he didn't want it to be said someone on one of his jobs got hurt because they were outgunned. And in all his years, on patrol and 'command', neither he nor anyone working one of his details was injured in the line of duty. Please don't think this was because of Bravado though, he was a VERY thorough and meticulous planner and investigator before all else.


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## BadgeBunny

semperscott said:


> The way our Federal govenment is expanding they have all the "trooops" they will need soon. Ever stopped to think why LEO's need to have .50 cal. rifles and other heavy ordinance. Federal LEO's have more firepower than needed for normal law enforcement duties, so why do they have them?


Take a long hard look at what is going on around the Mexican border. I personally think we should just carpet bomb the whole border, then dig a gigantic moat and throw a bunch of piranhas and alligators in it. But then again ... I can be a bit harsh sometimes ... at least that is what "they" say ...


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## BlueShoe

BadgeBunny said:


> Take a long hard look at what is going on around the Mexican border. I personally think we should just carpet bomb the whole border, then dig a gigantic moat and throw a bunch of piranhas and alligators in it. But then again ... I can be a bit harsh sometimes ... at least that is what "they" say ...


Corporations would never stand for getting in the way of the bottom line. Tyson and Walmart have both paid enormous fines for participating or knowingly aiding trafficking in illegals for labor. As part of their settlements they admitted no guilt. :gaah:


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## FrostHeaves

The OP reads like a gubbermint instruction sheet to "roll over and take it".

Ain't gonna happen. Peoples gonna get hurt. 

The last time my grandparents experienced martial law people were being told to get on the train and then to take a shower.

I remember watching NOLA "peace officers" dogpile a little old lady as she was holding a top break revolver upside down when they came to forcibly move her to a "safe" location. 

My preps for martial law include AP rounds and body armor with rifle plates, and believe me I ain't gonna be alone.

Think resistance against a superior force is futile ?
Tell that to the Colonial militia, the French Maqui of WWII, Viet Minh and the Mujahideen. 

I ain't goin' quietly, :usaflag:


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## BadgeBunny

tenOC said:


> Corporations would never stand for getting in the way of the bottom line. Tyson and Walmart have both paid enormous fines for participating or knowingly aiding trafficking in illegals for labor. As part of their settlements they admitted no guilt. :gaah:


Oh I know ... doesn't stop me from thinking wishful from time to time ...


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## sailaway

GatorDude said:


> Interesting read...but the one typo I found really cracked me up:
> 
> "* Avoid areas of *marital *law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or *man caused events*. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas."
> 
> I pretty much read it as if there are troops in your local streets and the world is falling into chaos, don't piss your wife off and if you do piss her off you better be ready to run to the hills!!!


I keep comming back to this one. 

Proverbs says: "It's better to sit on the corner of your roof than share the house with an unrulely wife."

It must have been me who did something to piss her off.:dunno:


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## Davo45

*Need vs. Want*



semperscott said:


> The way our Federal govenment is expanding they have all the "trooops" they will need soon. Ever stopped to think why LEO's need to have .50 cal. rifles and other heavy ordinance. Federal LEO's have more firepower than needed for normal law enforcement duties, so why do they have them?


I'm not sure I agree with this statement, after all the BATFE knowingly allowed straw man purchasers of the Mexican drug cartels buy Barrett .50's then told ICE to let them cross the border with them resulting in 2 ICE agents being killed with 1 of the same guns. This, just weeks after POTUS Obama met with POM Calderon (or whatever his name is) in D.C. and called for what? More gun control to help stop the flow of illegal guns from entering Mexico from the U.S. How's that for brilliance? There weren't that many guns from the U.S. down there before their little "sting operation."

It would seem that the old "normal" isn't the new "normal" where law enforcement is concerned. The drug cartels are and always have been better armed and equipped than law enforcement.

As to your question of "why do they have to have them?" the simple answer is that, perhaps they don't, but someone in the system added Barrett .50 calibers to one or more agencies budgets and they purchased them.

My agency, and most around us, purchased and issue AR-15 patrol carbines, we may never "need" them, but when we do, it'll be too late to request them in the next year's budget. I'm quite sure any of the North Hollywood officers would've given nearly anything to have had as much as a Ruger mini-14 instead of Berretta 9mm's and Remington 870's loaded with 00 Buck. In fact, it was that incident, more than any other in recent US history that convinced a great many local and state officials that maybe equipping their officers with patrol rifles (after being properly trained of course) was indeed "needed".

People don't "need" a vehicle that will exceed the speed limit, or a great many other things that we take for granted.....but we WANT them. If I thought it was even remotely possible to get the city to buy a Barrett .50 I'd write a proposal today. Do I NEED one? It's HIGHLY doubtful that I ever would, but I sure do want one.


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## worldengineer

FrostHeaves said:


> The OP reads like a gubbermint instruction sheet to "roll over and take it".
> 
> Ain't gonna happen. Peoples gonna get hurt.
> 
> Think resistance against a superior force is futile ?
> Tell that to the Colonial militia, the French Maqui of WWII, Viet Minh and the Mujahideen.
> 
> I ain't goin' quietly, :usaflag:


You could also ad the Viet Cong to that list. The only problem is I don't have air support to back me up.


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## BlueShoe

Davo45 said:


> People don't "need" a vehicle that will exceed the speed limit, or a great many other things that we take for granted.....but we WANT them. If I thought it was even remotely possible to get the city to buy a Barrett .50 I'd write a proposal today. Do I NEED one? It's HIGHLY doubtful that I ever would, but I sure do want one.


People in urban and many suburban areas don't need cars at all. We're already forced to fund public transportation and almost nobody uses it. But I'm just being facetious. We DO need firearms. We wouldn't have the freedoms that we have without them.


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## IrritatedWithUS

tenOC said:


> People in urban and many suburban areas don't need cars at all. We're already forced to fund public transportation and almost nobody uses it. But I'm just being facetious. We DO need firearms. We wouldn't have the freedoms that we have without them.


I live in an urban area and yes, we have light rail and buses. They try to force people to take the public transit and reducing our drivable roads into rail tracks for light rail and buses. And of course, there are no gun rules on these things


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## ra5451

PatriotSurvivalist said:


> MARTIAL LAW
> * Gun ownership will also come under severe attack during marital law. We could see house to house searches by the military or National Guard looking for guns and seizing any they find along with stored food.
> * Hide equipment/supplies away from your home. Have a retreat or place where you can escape to as a safe haven. As governments get more totalitarian they make the citizens outlaws by banning things like gun or gold. Bury things or have them hidden away.
> 
> *I'd like to get more info on where to store items outside the home. Would you bury Guns & Money? How? Where? How do you prep them? What about food?*


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## BasecampUSA

PatriotSurvivalist said:


> *I'd like to get more info on where to store items outside the home. Would you bury Guns & Money? How? Where? How do you prep them? What about food?*


*When the time has come to bury guns in America, THE TIME HAS COME TO USE THEM !!! *


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## BlueShoe

Most likely, local police agency personnel will be conducting the house to house and check point searches for firearms. They might be aiding federal directives, but there aren't enough federal LEO personnel to do this. It will HAVE to be with help from locals.


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## Ur5hittingMe

Thanks for the great info. Very informative


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## HozayBuck

*My take on Martial Law*

*Is pretty simple , Martial sets aside the Constitution and Bill of Rights , So in my opinion ..if I have no rights then neither do "they" If it's them against us then it's also us against them.. we out number them and are better armed except for the military and in fact we out number them.. they have bigger guns..lol..but most won't fire on Americans..I HOPE !!! IF it's gonna happen then let it be now!! while I can hobble to my stump to get behind *


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## knuckledragger

*New here, just my opinion*

Before I get into the stuff that might raise an eyebrow or two, let me introduce myself. I am a conservative, evangelical Christian with tea party sympathies. I also believe that the federal government is too big, and too powerful. I am a husband and a father of 3 kids. In my lifetime, I have been a law enforcement officer, a firefighter and EMT (currently) and a member of a Federal response team for emergencies under, you guessed it, FEMA. Look, I don't know about the way FEMA works at the top, but at my level, it is a bunch of firefighters and EMT's that just want to help when there is a disaster of national proportions. I'm not a political kinda guy. I'll hook up with whoever can get me to the kid that is trapped under a bunch of rubble, and supply me with the tools and training to get him out. Period. I was on one of the first teams pulling people off of rooftops after Hurricane Katrina, so much of what has been theorized about in this thread, I have seen, up close and personal. And y'all are right. It's ugly.

I'm torn about the whole martial law thing. On the one hand, it gave the leo's responsible for force protection in New Orleans the right and ability to protect me and my team while people were shooting at rescue teams who were genuinely just trying to save folks. On the other hand, do I believe it could be abused by a tyrannical government? You betcha. I'm not one of these modern day prophets who is preaching an impending apocalyptic event for our country with the same certainty that I know that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I do think that such horrible things are possible and growing more and more possible as we let self serving politicians call stupid shots. So, that's me and where I come from. What do I have to add to this conversation? Not a whole lot. I agree with much of what has been said, but it needs to be "tweaked." For instance, when I was in New Orleans, the people from the city did not go out and start attacking the rural survivalists that had stored food and weapons. They did what they were trained to do and what they typically do on a daily basis. They sat down and waited for the government to show up to meet their needs and answer their problems. If they wanted to victimize someone, they picked the guy next door or down the block. Now, that was a "short term" event, and if bad times dragged on for a while that might change some, but not before they had been weakened by hunger, thirst, fatigue, and confusion. If the shtf, you will have time to see what is coming, and you should be better prepared and equipped than that which comes to threaten you, if it ever does. Folks may just sit, wait on the government and die. They did in New Orleans. I saw it.

Secondly. Do all of your prep, training, etc. but I am now convinced that the most important element in the survival of hard times is a "sense of community." After New Orleans, I went to the Gulf Coast of MS. The damage there was far more severe, but the people there adjusted much better because they _*stuck together as communities, shared resources, and helped one another*_. Do the same.

Finally, don't worry too much about some grand, organized response from the federal government. One thing that was learned from Katrina was that the Feds cannot do anything fast and efficiently. They could not handle the localized disaster because of the mountain of red tape and beauracracy, so a nationwide disaster would completely overwhelm them. The government only does well those things that it does daily and repeatedly. Anything outside that description brings things to a grinding halt. I've seen it.

Most of the other stuff here was pretty good. Just know that whatever happens, it will not fit 100% into what you and I have planned and prepared for. And with any luck, some of those unexpected elements will work in our favor.


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## knuckledragger

just my two cents.


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## gypsysue

Well, knuckledragger, those two cents are certainly golden coins. That is an awesome post full of good information and level-headed recommendations.

Welcome to the forum. We're very glad to have you here!


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## knuckledragger

Thanks, Sue.
One other thing. I moved my family out to the country last year because I have seen first hand what a valuable thing it is to have a "sense of community." We joined a church that believes like we believe, but it also has a 7 acre garden that is used to help feed the "less fortunate." In addition to that, I look around the table at my Sunday School class and see an engineer, a couple of guys who have been farming and growing crops all of their lives, two nurses, a concrete worker, and a welder, amongst other things. Even if they are not all thinking in terms of preparedness, the skills are all there. I bring to the table a fair amount of experience in emergency response (I've been both a firefighter/EMT and a law enforcement officer), and an understanding of what people do when things go really, really bad.

So, what does all this mean? If you are a part of a church, encourage them to "be the church." Get them accustomed to thinking outside the box and to start meeting needs for those who are hungry and less fortunate. If the worse happens, your group of people will already be used to looking for unconventional solutions to the problems of hunger, pain, and suffering. Couldn't hurt to be surrounded by people who area already capable of doing that. 

Secondly, surround yourself with people that have useful skills. Even if they are not worried about what may happen, they bring things to the table that could be invaluable. If things go bad, they will be looking for guidance, for someone who is planning two or three steps ahead. You don't have to make a survivalist out of everyone now (they will think you are nuts if you try to) because life may well make survivalists out of them at some point. All you have to do is to be a reliable, helpful, trustworthy neighbor that they will trust in the event of an emergency. (As a Christian, we are called to be that, anyway) If things ever go South, they will look to you to give guidance and to help formulate a plan for survival.

In short, I think that survivalists, in general, are too focused on gear, skills, stockpiles of stuff, and training. There is nothing wrong with any of those, but they will all come to nothing if you don't have others who trust you and are willing to be a part of a community that has the skills and determination to face some serious realities. Build your community. If you are a Christian, build your church as well.


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## audioguru76

all good info... I'm never going to sleep after joining this place.. too much good stuff to take in.


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## Davo45

I believe you're exactly right Knuckledragger. I haven't talked to anyone who saw the damage done by Katrina and that done by the Arpil 27 tornadoes here in Alabama who didn't agree that the damage here was far greater. What was strikingly different here is that the people came together and helped each other. 

There was an immediate response as soon as the next morning from church groups, civic organizations, college fraternities, etc. as well as talk radio stations acting as communications hubs. They received calls from victims or volunteers in effected areas reporting needs, within minutes people were calling in to meet those needs. Others would call in who had skills or equipment and say they wanted to help, but wanted to go where they were most needed. 

FEMA started rolling in within 2-3 days, but by then if anyone didn't have food, shelter and water it was their own fault for not letting someone know they had a need. We had groups from other states come in with supplies and other resources as well, but the lion's share were Alabamians. There was even a Facebook page started called "People helping People" that one of the TV stations started. They also worked with the talk radio stations in coordinating resources to where they were needed most.

There were a few incidents of looting, but virtually all of the offenders were from out of state and they were all caught. some were caught by police or national guardsmen, but more were caught by property owners or their neighbors and held at gun point for the police to pick up. There were no responders shot at and no firearms seized from property owners by anyone as there was no threat to anyone but criminals caused by them.

Outstanding post.

Stay safe and God bless,

Dave


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## beanpicker

First , Thank you , knuckledragger for such down to earth encourging words. 

I joined this fourm a month or so back an mostly to just read an learn, an I have to addmit at first some of these post scared the hebby jebby out of me. But now I can honestly say it's ok if they want to store gallons of gas, or guns or 40 buckets of wheat an 30 buckets of rice ,,it's ok . At first I thought man there are some realy crazy people out there,, but I now see a lot of people like me wanting to have on hand things that will help others in need . In other words are there any difference in stocking 6 pound boxes of salt, enought to last us 2 year or better, then the man who is stocking 40 - 5 pound buckest of it. ( buy the way I have 17 lbs so far ) 
Hear is some thing that changed my thiking. Years ago we built two rooms on to our house an under one room is a cistern that is not longer used. We put in a well. At first we talked of putting a door threw the basement an making a fall out shelter but raiseing the family an no need for a shelter it slipped buy . After all we have a basement for storm shelter. Now being with looking an thinking ahead "what if " I just the other day I felt the need to tell my 12 & 14 year old grandson about this could be room . Course there mother ,my DIL , look at me like ( we best be thinking of a nursing home for grandma ) I just can't seem to confence her the need to prep. But at least the boys know about a hid out shelter or making it in to a bomb shelder in years to come that may benifit them . ( or even me by the looks of some things .) But my point is it ok to think like this , an it's ok to even build it if that what one wants to do.. 

I read an enjoy learing so much of what all of you write.My DH was deaf from at the age of 2 so he has missed out in so many commuition an understanding shills , I lack spelling an he lacks listening & talking. He is some what on board with my thinking of prepping but not as I am , but he has never once ask if I was done yet. 

Im getting off the subjest of martial law, does it seem to any of you like "THEY" are doing things on purpose to make us angery , an confussed an like they are hoping for riots so they can enforce martial law? This has been swimming around in my head for months now , sence this new president too office ,an I can't seem to shake it .. an I kinda fear more coming before this next election.. After all could martial law cancel the next election ?? for the "good of the peolpe" they need to wait untill things calme down .. I mean if roits broke out in several larger citys an we all have heard how they them self are the ones who have started some of these riots, paid acorn ,, then martial law goes in effect to the whole country. Then couldn't then turn this country into what they wanted an are getting now only faster?? 
OK give me your feed back?


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## Meerkat

This new president is just the finisher,no better or worse than any before him,imo.

I always voted republican thinking it was lessor of two evils.I was wrong.They work together to destroy this nation.Just my opinion of course.


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## stayingthegame

*guns*

what guns? I don't have any guns. they Kill people. they're bad. people who own them are bad and evil. who me ? I don't have guns.:sssh:


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## lotsoflead

If you're living and surviving now, you will be able to survive if Martial law is officially declared. I went for a two hundred mile ride over the weekend and passed over 40 LEO, counting troopers,deputies,DEC State Police, local LEOs in every town and one White SUV with Blue letters that said Homeland security and in one town, a PU that said, Zoning enforcement officer,.
there is nothing you can do in this country without a permit or a license.everything you do and every move you make is monitored.you even buy or sell a car tire, you pay a fee or tax. You can mow your lawn if the noise don't bother your neighbow.


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## Meerkat

JayJay said:


> I did read a document of a Chinese leader speaking to military leaders, years ago..his point was they hadn't invaded the U.S. yet because behind every door of every household was a gun..go figure.
> 
> Regarding this:how could even one million LEOs controll them without sleeping gas or worse, then there's the clean up.
> 
> I just finished reading an article of a new (to us) heat ray weapon being used...of course, the area affected wasn't specified..one or a crowd?? That would be the question, wouldn't it...for if you can isolate a beam and cover a town, we're toast..no pun intended!!


 They have planned for all of this for decades.FEMA Camps are all over the place.Even ordered 3500 guilitines.OBama Zar Emanuel said they are more human because they don't fry the organs like electroction or poison them like chemicla shots.Google American Gulitines'spell?.

If I were young I'd go as far into the woods or Northern Territory as possible.Moose tonque and no sun'cabin fever' for months will take some getting use to though.


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## piglett

*our good friends at FEMA*


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## power

Meerkat said:


> They have planned for all of this for decades.FEMA Camps are all over the place.Even ordered 3500 guilitines.OBama Zar Emanuel said they are more human because they don't fry the organs like electroction or poison them like chemicla shots.Google American Gulitines'spell?.
> 
> If I were young I'd go as far into the woods or Northern Territory as possible.Moose tonque and no sun'cabin fever' for months will take some getting use to though.


Be sure to check the locations of the FEMA camps. One was supposedly located near where I grew up. I can tell you there is nothing there. On the internet they even show pics of many of them.


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## Meerkat

power said:


> Be sure to check the locations of the FEMA camps. One was supposedly located near where I grew up. I can tell you there is nothing there. On the internet they even show pics of many of them.


I can't check much,but do know they closed down lots of military bases.And hear they have been converted.But lots of conspiracy out there so its good to verify.

I know the guilitines are real though.It came up in a conversation with one of the zars.Google'Amercian Guilitines'see if a reliable source is out there.

My web is not upgraded so I can't visit most sites now or I'd help.


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## sewtnanny

IrritatedWithUS said:


> I should buy guns for people as gifts...hmmm.... just kidding


I think this is a very GOOD idea.... NOT Kidding! My family all have gun (s). Last year I made each family a quilt (extra cover/warmth) This year, I'm buying emergency long term food, supplies as gifts for the adults. My grandson is getting a windup flashlight for his birthday. I will probably buy him a pair of leather work boots one size too large for Christmas, along with other things he might need when things get rough... since I haven't been able to find work boots at the thrift stores or yard sales this year...
May God bless us, one and all...


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## SpaceGhost

Meerkat said:


> I can't check much,but do know they closed down lots of military bases.And hear they have been converted.But *lots of conspiracy out there *so its good to *verify*.
> 
> _*I know the guilitines are real though*_.It came up in a conversation with one of the zars.Google'Amercian Guilitines'see if a reliable source is out there.
> 
> My web is not upgraded so I can't visit most sites now or I'd help.


 I can't see there being a single Guilitine this early in the game. To me that is not power hungry gov stuff, (Guilitine Zar) that's Anti-Christ stuff. Not saying it won't come to that, but the internet ain't the gospel, you gotta take it with a grain of salt.


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## Meerkat

SpaceGhost said:


> I can't see there being a single Guilitine this early in the game. To me that is not power hungry gov stuff, (Guilitine Zar) that's Anti-Christ stuff. Not saying it won't come to that, but the internet ain't the gospel, you gotta take it with a grain of salt.


 I'm not sure either,but there is lots of tlk about Gerogia and Montana storing them.And a bill in Gerogia House of Rep.sHB1274 mentions that if a prisoner wanted to donate organs electrocution would 'make organs unsuitable for transplant' that guillotines would be more suitable.

Ga.House of Representatives 1995-96 Sec.HB1274.Art.1 Ch.10

What I found with my low grade webtv box.


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## kejmack

Meerkat said:


> They have planned for all of this for decades.FEMA Camps are all over the place.Even ordered 3500 guilitines.OBama Zar Emanuel said they are more human because they don't fry the organs like electroction or poison them like chemicla shots.Google American Gulitines'spell?.


Meerkat, not one of those Google links is from a legitimate newsworthy site. That is tinfoil stuff. I researched and did a NEXUS search and can not find one place where Obama or Rahm Emanuel said anything about killing people with guillotines.


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## ReconCraftTheta

PatriotSurvivalist said:


> MARTIAL LAW
> 
> The following guide will help you plan, prepare, and get ready in the event that martial law threatens you safety and well being. It is divided into two parts. The first part describes the framework for martial law and the second part the actions to take in preparing for the actual declaration of martial law.
> 
> INTERESTING FACTS
> 
> * Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.
> 
> * Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.
> 
> * Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.
> 
> * Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.
> 
> * Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.
> 
> * Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.
> 
> * Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.
> 
> * Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."
> 
> * Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.
> 
> * Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.
> 
> * Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.
> Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.
> 
> * Martial law can be declared due to natural disasters, 2012 Crisis, Stock Market crash, no electricity, riots, biological attack, .... anything leading to the breakdown of law and order.
> 
> SURVIVING MARTIAL LAW
> 
> * Prepare before any declaration of martial law by becoming self reliant. You may become subject to a bureaucratic system and be prepared to stay one step ahead of it which is easy to do if you are prepared and in a position to be self reliant.
> You may also face mob rule, chaos, panic, or a complete breakdown in law and order. Survival situations may be easier to handle in rural areas than urban.
> 
> * Avoid areas of marital law. Can be imposed due to natural disasters or man caused events. Important to have a retreat or place in a rural area away from populated areas.
> 
> * Create alliances with like minded neighbors or community members that share your views. Team work and numbers may help your situation.
> 
> * Become transparent in the sense that you do not draw attention to yourself or your family. For instance, do not tell people that you are storing food just store food. Be prepared to render assistance to neighbors if need be. You never know when you will need them.
> 
> * Remain calm! Do not panic.
> 
> * Avoid areas of civil unrest if possible. If caught in civil unrest take appropriate action.
> 
> * Get informed and stay informed. Understand martial law can be a temporary crisis or an extended one. In extreme cases the shape of a whole nation can change.
> 
> * Declaration of martial law means your rights are suspended and it is government by decree. Your constitutional rights may no longer apply. This could mean a state of National Emergency.
> 
> * People can be arrested and imprisoned indefinitely without charges.
> 
> * Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly can be suspended, and censorship of the media imposed.
> 
> * Gun ownership will also come under severe attack during marital law. We could see house to house searches by the military or National Guard looking for guns and seizing any they find along with stored food.
> 
> * Take a stand on issues and make a choice that fits your beliefs and the situation. Do you believe as Patrick Henry, "Give me liberty or give me death?"
> 
> Realize you may have some hard choices to make. Understand you may have to sacrifice your principles on trivial matters or take a hard stand.
> 
> Always remember that you may have to come back and fight another day.
> 
> Disclaimer: I do not Advocate the use of VIOLENCE unless threatened with deadly force.
> 
> I also don't suggest that you take up arms against ANY type of Military Force.
> 
> Your small arms will be useless against the Full Force of the most heavily armed and well trained Military in the world.
> 
> Bug Out when possible and find somewhere to hold up until things calm down.
> 
> Save your Ammo and Small arms for Survival and Protection against marauders.
> 
> CIVIL & URBAN UNREST
> 
> * Be aware by recognizing danger. Have communication such as a radio, CB, or scanner. Use your senses. Panic spreads fast so when you feel threatened like your hair standing on end and the adrenalin working. Take action. Fight down the panic and stay calm.
> 
> * Get away-stay out of harm's way. Avoid trouble areas and/or dangerous parts of cities. Move away from dangerous cities.
> 
> * Avoid confrontation and try go around potential problems. Have an escape route that you have selected ahead of time. Remember, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword." You might end up the target of a person's built up anger even though you are not a part of the problem.
> 
> * Act like the natives. Try to blend in so you don't attract attention. Be careful of what you wear. Be aware of your surroundings.
> 
> * Hide equipment/supplies away from your home. Have a retreat or place where you can escape to as a safe haven. As governments get more totalitarian they make the citizens outlaws by banning things like gun or gold. Bury things or have them hidden away.
> 
> * Learn to defend yourself. Choose an art that is compatible to your beliefs such as karate, Aikido, mace, pepper spray, or shooting. If you face trouble head on, you should resist with everything possible in a life or death situation.
> 
> * Don't get involved in mobs or mob behavior. They become mindless and objectivity is lost.
> 
> * Crushed in a crowd? Self preservation is the key. Try to ride it out like a buoy in the sea. If caught in a crowd surge, stay away from anything solid like a wall, barrier, or pillar. Keep hands out of pockets and loosen tie.
> 
> You can find this and much more at my website:
> 
> ULTIMATE SURVIVAL SUPPLIES​


Would you mind if I printed this out for documentation and aid purpose? Just wanted to make sure before I did anything.


----------



## ttruscott

> INTERESTING FACTS
> 
> * Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.
> 
> * Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.
> 
> * Executive Order 10995:


All these executive orders...do they apply to Hitler or to current US administration?

Ted


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## Meerkat

ttruscott said:


> All these executive orders...do they apply to Hitler or to current US administration?
> 
> Ted


Whats the difference? Besides that Hitler did it quicker than they have been able to do to us.Germany was already socialist so it did'nt take as long to sock it to them.

Also it did'nt start with the Obama Jetson Family.

The last family to move on up was the ReagansNancy redecorated ,just her newly aquired taste for Fine China alone set us back $250,000.Then her whipped husband gave 3 million illegals amnesty in 1986.After they brought in family it swelled to another 40 million who is doing a lot of voting now.Press one for english.Press 2 for hate crimes law if you don't like it.


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## LincTex

ttruscott said:


> All these executive orders...do they apply to Hitler or to current US administration? - - Ted


Ted, those are NOT nazi executive orders.... those are UNITED STATES executive orders, signed by presidents past. Most by either F.D.R. or J.F.K.

Search it, dude. They are legit.


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## LincTex

Executive orders

The "public friendly" list:
List of United States federal executive orders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Notice all the gaps in numerical sequence... ...they left out all the "public unfriendly" ones... ...like the ones listed in the original post on page 1.


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## ttruscott

Thanks LincTe, just what I wanted...


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## efbjr

Meerkat said:


> The last family to move on up was the Reagans. Nancy redecorated ,just her newly acquired taste for Fine China alone set us back $250,000.


According to Wikipedia, the cost of the new White House china was donated by various individual and corporate sources.

Nancy Reagan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nancy Reagan became First Lady of the United States in January 1981 following her husband's victory, but was criticized early in his first term largely due to her decision to replace the White House china, despite it being paid for by private donations

White House china - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Reagan service
The Reagan state china service was modeled on Woodrow Wilson's china and features the seal of the president of the United States in burnished gold on an ivory background with a border of scarlet. The china was manufactured in the United States by Lenox, and selected by First Lady Nancy Reagan.

State dinners had become so large by the Reagan presidency that none of the china could accommodate the number of guests. First Lady Nancy Reagan ordered 4,370 pieces of Lenox china, enough placesettings of 19 pieces for 220 people. This was nearly twice as many placesettings as other recent services. The Reagans wanted a design that would display a strong presence for the subtly colored State Dining Room, now painted white. Nancy Reagan worked closely with Lenox designers to create a pattern with bands in a striking scarlet red, which was her favorite color. The pattern was bordered on each side with etched gold, which created a sparkling contrast with the soft ivory china. The presidential seal was in raised gold in the center, partially overlaying the red border. On pieces such as the service and dessert plates, fine gold crosshatching overlays the red.[2]

----------

A bit ostentatious, I admit, but did you expect the President to serve guests dinner on paper plates and Dixie cups? (OK, maybe at the Reagan ranch when they were barbecuing!  )


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## Meerkat

efbjr said:


> According to Wikipedia, the cost of the new White House china was donated by various individual and corporate sources.
> 
> Nancy Reagan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Nancy Reagan became First Lady of the United States in January 1981 following her husband's victory, but was criticized early in his first term largely due to her decision to replace the White House china, despite it being paid for by private donations
> 
> White House china - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Reagan service
> The Reagan state china service was modeled on Woodrow Wilson's china and features the seal of the president of the United States in burnished gold on an ivory background with a border of scarlet. The china was manufactured in the United States by Lenox, and selected by First Lady Nancy Reagan.
> 
> State dinners had become so large by the Reagan presidency that none of the china could accommodate the number of guests. First Lady Nancy Reagan ordered 4,370 pieces of Lenox china, enough placesettings of 19 pieces for 220 people. This was nearly twice as many placesettings as other recent services. The Reagans wanted a design that would display a strong presence for the subtly colored State Dining Room, now painted white. Nancy Reagan worked closely with Lenox designers to create a pattern with bands in a striking scarlet red, which was her favorite color. The pattern was bordered on each side with etched gold, which created a sparkling contrast with the soft ivory china. The presidential seal was in raised gold in the center, partially overlaying the red border. On pieces such as the service and dessert plates, fine gold crosshatching overlays the red.[2]
> 
> ----------
> 
> A bit ostentatious, I admit, but did you expect the President to serve guests dinner on paper plates and Dixie cups? (OK, maybe at the Reagan ranch when they were barbecuing!  )


 Thanks for the history lesson.That story came out a while after the outcry about the dinnerware.But it could be true.

Wonder why they called it'china'if it as made here?At least they did'nt have the plates with the seal UN in the center,huh?.Or a crescent moon.


----------



## efbjr

*Strange, but true...*



Meerkat said:


> Wonder why they called it'china'if it as made here?At least they did'nt have the plates with the seal UN in the center,huh?.Or a crescent moon.


I took a tour of the Newport, RI mansions years ago. One mansion had quite a collection of porcelain dinnerware. I inquired about its' origin  and the tour guide told us that it had been used as ballast in the old sail driven ships that engaged in trading with China. Seems that the ships would set out for China with regular New England rounded field stones used for ballast. The Chinese valued this kind of stone for road building and were eager to buy all they could get. To re-ballast the ships. they stacked Chinese-made porcelain dinnerware ("China") (I guess the stuff was cheaper than rocks to buy! :dunno in the holds. A lot of it was ruined on the return trip, but a lot was also salvageable and was eagerly purchased in the States!


----------



## Turtle

Meerkat said:


> I can't check much,but do know they closed down lots of military bases.And hear they have been converted.But lots of conspiracy out there so its good to verify.


For anyone curious about the base closings, check out Defense Base Closure and Realignment Commission (BRAC) For anyone too paranoid to go to a government website, the main reason behind the base closings is that the government is trying to save money by not operating a bunch of smaller out-dated bases when their functions can be consolidated and centralized.


----------



## Turtle

piglett said:


> YouTube - ‪FEMA Camp Footage (Concentrations Camps in USA)‬‏


And seriously? Is this thing for real? These conspiracy theorists really need to relocate their heads from out of their posteriors. Anyone with an IQ above the speed limit and any experience with the government could provide a logical explaination for all of the various features which are pointed out in that film. There are no federal ninjas lurking in the trees.


----------



## DJgang

Turtle said:


> And seriously? Is this thing for real? These conspiracy theorists really need to relocate their heads from out of their posteriors. Anyone with an IQ above the speed limit and any experience with the government could provide a logical explaination for all of the various features which are pointed out in that film. There are no federal ninjas lurking in the trees.


I watched this video, which lead to watching another video of some man showing areas, that are federal or state places that could be used for holding large numbers of people, he pointed out angles of barbed wire etc,..I was like 

So just today we went to the state park where we sometimes launch our boat on the weekends. A sherrifs office is located there as well, with water patrol, etc. The large boat lauching and parking area is fenced in. I've often wondered why, because it's just right along with the park (hard to explain) anyway....it's tall fenced in area, the fence goes into the lake on the sides, around the parking lot and various exit gates that are always locked...the barbed wire angles inside! Weird. I have no why that area needs that type of security, it's just a boat lauch, for heavens sake...but...if you thinking along these lines...easy access to water to move lots of people, fenced to keep things IN! It's just weird.


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## Calebra

No need to reinvent the wheel. Look at the way gypsies and jews survived in earope . Don't stick out,don't cooperate,don't expect anything good from the government or authority,don't trust anyone and treasure those you do more than anything else,defend yourself and those you care about with utmost ferocity,seem less than possible and develop capabilities for more than to be expected. Create your own society and live in it.


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## Calebra

Lol-I meant don't cooperate with the big brother --not each other lol.


----------



## semperscott

MrSfstk8d said:


> I think I know what you mean SD. The very same SuperPowers that provide the overwhelming majority of UN troops in the various "peace keeping" missions throughout the world are the same ones that will be falling to bits and pieces at the same time when SHTF, because thier economies are so closely linked. If the US falls, GB will fall, Canada will fall, domino, domino, domino. Maybe Ghana won't. Maybe Chechnia won't. Maybe Aruba won't. But the Big Boys will be too busy cleaning up messes in their own back yards to send troops to anyone else.
> 
> Oh, and SemperScott, when's the last time you had to intercept an armed drug carrier vessel on the high seas? Broken up an organized crime related bomb lab in downtown Chicago? Stormed a meth lab in Kentucky? I'm not saying there's a reason to have a .50 sniper in every arms room, nor that it's day to day business, but there are cases that justify a certain amount of superior firepower. My dad was a cop for years and years. He did a lot of plain clothes work, investigations, drug deals, etc. In his truck, at any given time, were 10-12 cases of his usual +p+p+ 9mm as well as 8 box of 12 ga. He didn't need them but once or twice, but he said he didn't want it to be said someone on one of his jobs got hurt because they were outgunned. And in all his years, on patrol and 'command', neither he nor anyone working one of his details was injured in the line of duty. Please don't think this was because of Bravado though, he was a VERY thorough and meticulous planner and investigator before all else.


Not really sure why you got upset. +p+p+ 9mm and 12 ga. ammo is fairly standard. .50 cal and now the 20mm Sniper Rifle is overkill for any LEO. I can understand and agree that LEO's would need a sniper rifle, but a .50 cal. or 20mm rifle is overkill.

To answer your question, I know more than you think. After serving 11 years in the United States Marine Corps as a grunt, sniper and CI Specialist I am intimately familiar with violence. Use this forum as it is meant to be used; as a tool to share ideas, to learn and to meet like minded people. Personal attacks are petty and have no place here.


----------



## semperscott

BadgeBunny said:


> Take a long hard look at what is going on around the Mexican border. I personally think we should just carpet bomb the whole border, then dig a gigantic moat and throw a bunch of piranhas and alligators in it. But then again ... I can be a bit harsh sometimes ... at least that is what "they" say ...


LOL! I have to say I like the way you think! 

Personnally I would just grab every illegal crossing the border and put them to work building a wall that would put the great wall of China to shame, clearing a 1000 yard kill zone in front of it and then issue 7.62 mm Sniper Rifles to ALL of the Border Patrol and tell them to use the rifles aggressively! But then again, I do tend to prefer direct action over passive actions.


----------



## semperscott

Davo45 said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this statement, after all the BATFE knowingly allowed straw man purchasers of the Mexican drug cartels buy Barrett .50's then told ICE to let them cross the border with them resulting in 2 ICE agents being killed with 1 of the same guns. This, just weeks after POTUS Obama met with POM Calderon (or whatever his name is) in D.C. and called for what? More gun control to help stop the flow of illegal guns from entering Mexico from the U.S. How's that for brilliance? There weren't that many guns from the U.S. down there before their little "sting operation."
> 
> It would seem that the old "normal" isn't the new "normal" where law enforcement is concerned. The drug cartels are and always have been better armed and equipped than law enforcement.
> 
> As to your question of "why do they have to have them?" the simple answer is that, perhaps they don't, but someone in the system added Barrett .50 calibers to one or more agencies budgets and they purchased them.
> 
> My agency, and most around us, purchased and issue AR-15 patrol carbines, we may never "need" them, but when we do, it'll be too late to request them in the next year's budget. I'm quite sure any of the North Hollywood officers would've given nearly anything to have had as much as a Ruger mini-14 instead of Berretta 9mm's and Remington 870's loaded with 00 Buck. In fact, it was that incident, more than any other in recent US history that convinced a great many local and state officials that maybe equipping their officers with patrol rifles (after being properly trained of course) was indeed "needed".
> 
> People don't "need" a vehicle that will exceed the speed limit, or a great many other things that we take for granted.....but we WANT them. If I thought it was even remotely possible to get the city to buy a Barrett .50 I'd write a proposal today. Do I NEED one? It's HIGHLY doubtful that I ever would, but I sure do want one.


You present a valid and thought out response to my statement. I would agree with you if ALL citizens were allowed to equip themselves with weapons equal to the LEO's. Of course that would mean that the 2nd Amendment would have to be followed, a course of action that has yet to happen. When the LEO's outgun the citizens the citizens are nothing more than hostages to the whim of the govenment. As you stated, by the time the citizens get to the point of really needing one, it would be too late. Like car insurance, I may never need a Barrett .50 but if I want one I should be allowed to purchase one without first asking permission, being put on multiple files within the government and then being at risk of having it being taken from me (along with any other wpns I might have) at the whim of the government. I see no need for the 20mm Sniper Rifle, but I would love to have one just to plunk with!


----------



## Meerkat

SpaceGhost said:


> I can't see there being a single Guilitine this early in the game. To me that is not power hungry gov stuff, (Guilitine Zar) that's Anti-Christ stuff. Not saying it won't come to that, but the internet ain't the gospel, you gotta take it with a grain of salt.


 Emanuel is not exactly internet stuff.He said it out of his own mouth,google it if you can.I can't upgrade or I'd do it for you.


----------



## BillS

I don't think the military will have the manpower to conduct house to house searches. It won't be like it was after Katrina. Not with the whole country being one huge disaster area. They'll be concentrated in urban areas wiping out the armed gangs that will be in control of those areas.

The other thing is that after TSHTF there will mass starvation throughout the country. Three months after food is no longer transported to grocery stores most of the people in the country will be dead. The military will have to spend a lot of time and manpower disposing of the bodies.


----------



## Turtle

semperscott said:


> LOL! I have to say I like the way you think!
> 
> Personnally I would just grab every illegal crossing the border and put them to work building a wall that would put the great wall of China to shame, clearing a 1000 yard kill zone in front of it and then issue 7.62 mm Sniper Rifles to ALL of the Border Patrol and tell them to use the rifles aggressively! But then again, I do tend to prefer direct action over passive actions.


I'm with you on the wall and the kill zone, but have you ever worked with any Border Patrol agents? To say that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel is putting it nicely. Most of the BP agents are just a step above the scum they are supposed to be arresting. I usually try to avoid saying bad things about fellow federal agents, but in this situation, you really have to call a spade a spade.

Now, if you put some Marines in those outposts....


----------



## lotsoflead

BillS said:


> I don't think the military will have the manpower to conduct house to house searches. It won't be like it was after Katrina. Not with the whole country being one huge disaster area. They'll be concentrated in urban areas wiping out the armed gangs that will be in control of those areas.
> 
> The other thing is that after TSHTF there will mass starvation throughout the country. Three months after food is no longer transported to grocery stores most of the people in the country will be dead. The military will have to spend a lot of time and manpower disposing of the bodies.


one of the problems will be be who are the good guys and who are the bad guys when people show up wearing uniforms, cops or military


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## Meerkat

They will just bring in more foreign troops.
I think anyone who lives in a majority minority or white hood will be the first to deal with civil unrest.Our leaders have done a great job of dividing us and spreading hate.Along with Hollyhoods and their half truths and lies and race hustlers and other radicals.
We are in serious trouble,If SHTF nobody wins,we all lose.


----------



## semperscott

Turtle said:


> I'm with you on the wall and the kill zone, but have you ever worked with any Border Patrol agents? To say that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel is putting it nicely. Most of the BP agents are just a step above the scum they are supposed to be arresting. I usually try to avoid saying bad things about fellow federal agents, but in this situation, you really have to call a spade a spade.
> 
> Now, if you put some Marines in those outposts....


LOL! If they posted Marines on the border even rattlesnakes couldn't get through!


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## Turtle

semperscott said:


> LOL! If they posted Marines on the border even rattlesnakes couldn't get through!


I am more than okay with that!


----------



## BillS

Parts of the original post aren't accurate. I looked up 3 of the executive orders. All were revoked. I don't even know if they had the authority to do what the original poster said.
1962 Executive Orders Disposition Tables

Executive Order 10998 
Assigning emergency preparedness functions to the Secretary of Agriculture

Signed: February 16, 1962
Federal Register page and date: 27 FR 1524, February 20, 1962
See: EO 10952, July 20, 1961; FR Doc. 62-9459, 27 FR 9418
Revoked by: EO 11490, October 28, 1969

xecutive Order 10997 
Assigning emergency preparedness functions to the Secretary of the Interior

Signed: February 16, 1962
Federal Register page and date: 27 FR 1522, February 20, 1962
See: EO 10952, July 20, 1961
Revoked by: EO 11490, October 28, 1969

Executive Order 11490 
Assigning emergency preparedness functions to Federal departments and agencies

Signed: October 28, 1969
Federal Register page and date: 34 FR 17567; October 30, 1969
Revokes: Defense Mobilization Orders IV-2 of December 11, 1953, and I-12 of October 5, 1954; EO 10312, December 10, 1951; EO 10346, April 17, 1952; EO 10997, February 16, 1962; EO 10998, February 16, 1962; EO 10999, February 16, 1962; EO 11000, February 16, 1962; EO 11001, February 16, 1962; EO 11002, February 16, 1962; EO 11003, February 16, 1962; EO 10004, February 16, 1962; EO 11005, February 16, 1962; EO 11087, February 26, 1963; EO 11088, February 26, 1963; EO 11089, February 26, 1963; EO 11090, Feb 26, 1963; EO 11091, February 26, 1963, EO 11092, February 26, 1963; EO 11093, February 26, 1993; EO 11094, February 26, 1993; EO 11095, February 26, 1963; EO 11310, October 11, 1966
Amended by: EO 11522, April 6, 1970; EO 11556, September 4, 1970; EO 11746, November 7, 1973; EO 11921, June 11, 1976; EO 11953, January 7, 1977; EO 12038, February 3, 1978; EO 12046, March 27, 1978; EO 12107, December 28, 1978; EO 12148, July 20, 1979; EO 12608, September 9, 1987
Revoked by: EO 12656, November 18, 1988
See: EO 11725, June 27, 1973; EO 12657, November 18, 1988


----------



## PanAmMan

lotsoflead said:


> one of the problems will be be who are the good guys and who are the bad guys when people show up wearing uniforms, cops or military


There has never been nor should you expect any reasonable way for a civilian w/o muillitary communications to be able to determine if the guy at the door "telling" you to surrender your food and or weapons is operating legally.

The first order of an isolated marshal law defense force is to secure enough supplies to sustain their security and stabilization mission. There is no supervision of these isolated forces, and the forces them selves are the only source of Intel for their regional commands.

Thus the advice to hide ones survival supplies and self from BOTH marauder and isolated defense forces is valid.

The short answer is no outsider can provide any useful help to the well prepared. They can however redistribute that preparedness based upon their ability to project force.

Just remember that isolated defense forces are no more prepared or to defend "you" against larger groups of armed marauders than the police are of stopping crime before it happens. They just cant be everywhere at once!

Their focus is on attacking the marauders and reducing their numbers as well as reducing peoples inclination to become marauders. But hunger is a powerful force when you see it in the eyes of your children!

Prepare well and keep yourself, your loved ones and your supplies out of sight until the mentally, physically and logistically unprepared have moved on.

Stealth is worth a small platoon of armed men and it eats nothing!


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## surviveendofsociety

Awesome post. I never realized that under martial law so much can be taken from us but it makes sense.


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## Calebra

PanAmMan said:


> There has never been nor should you expect any reasonable way for a civilian w/o muillitary communications to be able to determine if the guy at the door "telling" you to surrender your food and or weapons is operating legally.
> 
> The first order of an isolated marshal law defense force is to secure enough supplies to sustain their security and stabilization mission. There is no supervision of these isolated forces, and the forces them selves are the only source of Intel for their regional commands.
> 
> Thus the advice to hide ones survival supplies and self from BOTH marauder and isolated defense forces is valid.
> 
> The short answer is no outsider can provide any useful help to the well prepared. They can however redistribute that preparedness based upon their ability to project force.
> 
> Just remember that isolated defense forces are no more prepared or to defend "you" against larger groups of armed marauders than the police are of stopping crime before it happens. They just cant be everywhere at once!
> 
> Their focus is on attacking the marauders and reducing their numbers as well as reducing peoples inclination to become marauders. But hunger is a powerful force when you see it in the eyes of your children!
> 
> Prepare well and keep yourself, your loved ones and your supplies out of sight until the mentally, physically and logistically unprepared have moved on.
> 
> Stealth is worth a small platoon of armed men and it eats nothing!


Very well put.


----------



## stayingthegame

lotsoflead said:


> one of the problems will be be who are the good guys and who are the bad guys when people show up wearing uniforms, cops or military


most military wear camo. what do hunters wear? what do some regular people wear? will you be able to tell who is who? Police wear uniforms. do you know what all the uniforms in your area look like? what about the areas around you? 
if the shtf does happen I will trust NO ONE. especially if he is in camo or a uniform.


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## Wallrat

*A Few Thoughts*

First, it'll be easy to tell who's coming to your door...if there are six of them, wearing flak jackets and pointing guns at you, they're the enemy, badges or no. Flash-bangs are a dead giveaway that these are not your friends. At risk of seeming extreme, I forsee a 1929 styled depression in our future. Remember what happened then, with the displaced people wandering around looking for work, and the city breadlines. It CAN happen again. One thing I'm sure of is that the Govt. reaction to a nationwide event like this would be repressive and out of proportion. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm a cynic (Google Katrina Gungrab for an example).
Food and energy storage will be crucial, when the SHTF. I like the idea of burying it, since if it can be found, it can be taken. I can do a thread on storage if anyone likes (didn't do a search to see if one exists yet). A friend of mine has a lot of experience in this, and filled me in. Great forum, great thread. Glad I found it. Here I was thinking I was a nut, and find I'm not alone!


----------



## ttruscott

Wallrat said:


> First, it'll be easy to tell who's coming to your door...if there are six of them, wearing flak jackets and pointing guns at you, they're the enemy, badges or no. Flash-bangs are a dead giveaway that these are not your friends. At risk of seeming extreme, I forsee a 1929 styled depression in our future. Remember what happened then, with the displaced people wandering around looking for work, and the city breadlines. It CAN happen again. One thing I'm sure of is that the Govt. reaction to a nationwide event like this would be repressive and out of proportion. Hope I'm wrong, but I'm a cynic (Google Katrina Gungrab for an example).
> Food and energy storage will be crucial, when the SHTF. I like the idea of burying it, since if it can be found, it can be taken. *I can do a thread on storage if anyone likes (didn't do a search to see if one exists yet). A friend of mine has a lot of experience in this, and filled me in*. Great forum, great thread. Glad I found it. Here I was thinking I was a nut, and find I'm not alone!


Don't hold back, let us have it. Repitition is not always bad! 

Ted


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## Wallrat

No need to do a duplicate, I'll just add it onto this one: http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f36/long-term-storage-148/


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## countrymom

*how far out of the city does one need to be?*

I live about eighty miles from a large city, fifteen miles from a small town, but our homestead is on a main road, mostly traveled by the folks in the community. I gota tell you all this stuff scares the heck out of me, you don't know who or what to trust in anymore, except God. If they do at some point declare martial law how far out do you think it would go.

Thanks


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## Preparedoffgrid62

*Foreign troops*



SaskDame said:


> UN troops from where?




Sadly said, NAU allows for American, Mexican troops in Canada, and the opposite all round. Our current Prime Sinister has made co governance agreement with China..sooo..ya..plus UN troops available from any UN country..sooo...ya..looks like the cull will done by foreign troops..from all over the NATO UN world..
sooo....being as they are ALL Unaware Globalist owned Mercs in disguise, under the control of the Globalist Corporate Mafia Pandering Zionist Fascist Regime from Hell...I don't wanna talk about it any more  Besides, I'll be dead before that scene unfolds..advances by dissenters and activists seem to have slowed the advance of fascist totalitarianism for a while longer..thank goodness for old age.
The grown offspring and their children will see the ugly side of human nature like never before..or..the planet will glow in the dark for 10000 years according to GW Bush and his band of pedophiles.
The globalists are centralizing their financial machines, including our stock markets, going to City Corporate State of London Uk, to isolate and control and pillage Canada, resources can be a curse..that thing about those who can not trust being untrustworthy worries me too..friend or foe one never will know, til they are stepping on your throat..too late.
On the other hand the sane American knows who the real enemies are and is preparing for the day should that "enemy", The Unlawful Treasonous United Corporate Fascist States of Amerika get too uppity and try to disarm them
NAU is interesting, we the 39 million suckers for a good line and traitor in power, that's all of them, Parliament a well scripted soap opera, in a triumvirate, 3 way, NAU Parliament, facing off against 500 million Americans and Mexicans hungry for resources..uhuh..deeeep shit..sooo...ya..interesting.

Just, thank God for old age here..no future that looks acceptable. Not going to die in a dirty diaper getting screwed by repressed sadistic perverted degenerates called health care givers every night either.. just the facts. Reality bites.
And thaaat aint all


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## BillM

*In a*



lotsoflead said:


> it could be one reason not spoke out loud by our government as to why people still have guns here. It certianly can't be the constitution because presidents have been walking all over it for yrs.


In a SHTF situation, all the government has to do is hand out rations and require you to turn in your weapons before you get the MRE's.


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## Preparedoffgrid62

*LEOS*



semperscott said:


> The way our Federal govenment is expanding they have all the "trooops" they will need soon. Ever stopped to think why LEO's need to have .50 cal. rifles and other heavy ordinance. Federal LEO's have more firepower than needed for normal law enforcement duties, so why do they have them?


[SIZE]That's a very pointed rhetorical question and is right on the money. If there was such a thing as real money or real govt., not just a sham and treasonous corporate owned political circus. Just watching Euro Union is educational enough for anyone. China too. Our leaders, are not our friends. I can see from a Gnostic point of view how the planet does appear to be a Satanic creation, and the beings on it in same cases Demonic creations by a lunatic demiurge.

Also, just in passing, there is one aspect to this Gnostic Gospel situation, that being, once one is able to use trance state meditation to recieve the hidden knowledge of the Megaversal heart and mind, and renounces this hell planet and all the religio lunacy attached to it no more reason to struggle unless one desires to stay and totally destroy the place and the bubble universe it inhabits amid the eternal space time, time space quanta, in an indestructable body, sounds great,  one can just check out by any means, as did Judas, after assisting The Jesus dude to get crucified for his troubles and since Gnosis is a recipe for personal disaster at the hands of this Satanic being, lunatic creator, just finding gnosis without the trust factor in it can be fatal :0) makes all the worry and struggle to survive counter produtive, as the whole purpose of being incarnated is to find the truth and escape the hell planet miniversal demiurgic entrapment of spirit..taking as many trapped spirits who are hypnotised cradle to grave into the belief systems created by a lunatic demonic incompetent( also fulfilling his purpose in a grand duality of perfect harmony) those who get trapped get eternally deaded and those get it, get a get outta jail card and take their rescued spirits, souls and bodies back to Origin..where we all started out in the first place..by agreement to live our lives all shown before hand and take the challenge to grow..mine through anamnesis, to expose the fallacy of Jesus as God..the greeks labled this diety Christos, Saviour, or today cosmic consciousness, or the christ consciousness, or a shard of the gods incarnate..allegedly, we all carry that consciousness hidden behind the satanic ego..some of us are none human animals who look real but are lacking a spirit, just have the satanic ego, soul, an anchor to trap the spirit and use it like a battery grid to power the maniac creators satanic system..:0) a satanic souler power collector..:2thumb:

Leos would be those unhuman walkin spiritually dead who WILL and DO kill their own national "relations" with a spirit.. we the uncreated and eternal spirit fragments of a kinder gentler pair of Gods that really do love us and are not allowed to tamper with the test..only to send an emmissary to speak the words as Jesus did after he was taught how to release his gnosis then take up his purpose to expose the evil that the roman church was and still is today..pagans ( Satanics) who made Jesus God, to assimilate him( insult to injury) plus the early followers and murdered millions of the rest while burning the true gospels of jesus..typical demonic scenario perhaps..I can hear the screams of bible in butts already..but just a discussion of possibilities here..that do make more sense than the current fraud of christianity/jesusolotry..biblical fraud in my humble and speculative views..:0) 
Today we know that anyone who is a genuine human with a spiritual aspect opposed to simply a satanic soul, and they are not doomed and can realise themselves as well and change, by learning to meditate and heal themselves and allow the spirit Kundalini or feminen aspect..become whole brained not just using a half a brain, problems with that immediately apparent too, as in psychopathy:0) within, spirit, the real you, to finally get a word in edgewise after the ego is shut the hell up.. one must die that the other may live..get it..Ego maniacs..ya..
Gotta go to see there..hear and feel absolutely certainly KNOW what the facts really are here on this satanic planet and universe..otherwise..all arguements are stupidly taken from biblical none credible sources and are simply ********.
Prejudging and premptiveness..not an unknown American Anti Christian trait either :0) Hiroshima ..ya..lunacy and evil being the same thing..allegedly..
Take it or leave it freely..you choice not mine..personally, I am gnostic through and through and unafraid  Just my stand..delivering.
peace we hope.
Gods bless us all :0) will too.:kiss:
[/SIZE][/SIZE]


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## radio477

Ok prepareoffgrid, what are you talking about? You really lost me on this one,does Satan and his minions already have us under Marshall law? Not sure i am following what you are saying, and not sure i want too!geesh


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## invision

radio477 said:


> Ok prepareoffgrid, what are you talking about? You really lost me on this one,does Satan and his minions already have us under Marshall law? Not sure i am following what you are saying, and not sure i want too!geesh


Lost too... I don't think I am in the same zip code as this one...


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## tsrwivey

Thanks radio & invision. I thought the sleep deprivation of having a newborn had finally caught up with me & I couldn't even understand the written word anymore.


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## BillS

Preparedoffgrid62 said:


> [SIZE]That's a very pointed rhetorical question and is right on the money. If there was such a thing as real money or real govt., not just a sham and treasonous corporate owned political circus. Just watching Euro Union is educational enough for anyone. China too. Our leaders, are not our friends. I can see from a Gnostic point of view how the planet does appear to be a Satanic creation, and the beings on it in same cases Demonic creations by a lunatic demiurge.
> 
> [/SIZE][/SIZE]


Gnosticism is nothing but demonic lies. The gnostic gospels are forgeries. They were written centuries after the fact.

The world was created by God. After He created it He said it was good. The problem is that people are evil and evil people are about to rule the world.


----------



## BillS

countrymom said:


> I live about eighty miles from a large city, fifteen miles from a small town, but our homestead is on a main road, mostly traveled by the folks in the community. I gota tell you all this stuff scares the heck out of me, you don't know who or what to trust in anymore, except God. If they do at some point declare martial law how far out do you think it would go.
> 
> Thanks


I think martial law will start in the large population centers first. It will take time before it spreads into rural area. The bigger problem, in my opinion, is that after the collapse there will large numbers of people leaving the city and heading to the countryside in search of food.


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## Preparedoffgrid62

No problem with anyones beliefs, not my biz, freewill and choices. No way that the people attacking gnosism would use disinformation to protect their monopoly on power right :0) wouldn't commit genocides nor inquisitions, nor Holy Wars  64 % of prists are not pedophiless or homosexuals..no way..the researchers are Satanists, right ;0)
I'd never suggest that  no thought to reasoning with anyone captured by the dogmas and fabrications of the ages.. purely an individual journey all are free to follow one way or another. 
Nothing new to be called a satanist or crazy either..the price of speaking my truth in my humble view. You are welcome to your beliefs..I'll keep my absolute and certain knowledge any day. Gotta go there to gnow there.
But fyi, i have permission to post a link or whole book to read if anyone was interested in answers to questions usually skirted in political/religious circles..related to survival directly as well..the truth of our plight and who is who in the Satanic realm.. if one isn't too fraidy to be open minded enough to at least read it  if not fine too.
Seems every doorway to knowing who one really is has been blocked by the Zionist Anti Christian Regime of the Unholy Roman Catholic Church..todays Roman Empire, Babbylon, on steroids, does rule the world. Like it not.
The link shows the facts, some conjecture..but one needs be able to comprehend plain english to understand the information, with a depth study of the work discussed. Selectively using what is to many a none valid position using a counterfeit biblical narrative as their starting place does invalidate the argument in scholastic circles. Those not dogmatised from cradle to grave and intolerant of any differences in views to their own are able to discuss or share easily. 
Arguing with dogmatics is a waste of energy and shows no results. The addage about not being able to reason with lunatics or something along that line :0) In 45 years I can count on one hand how many actually tested the theories held in Meditation and Kundalini awakenings, or have enough discernment to recognise the flaws in the bible today. Paradox exist. Decieving the very elite is childs play. Just believe on Jesus. So simple. In fact just a little too simple.

http://www.freedomfiles.org/

Reasonable people study the evidences and form their conclusions themselves. Being informationally disarmed and prone to prejudging is an inherent trait of terminally ignorant zealots, often arrogant and abusive. 
The short answer is thus, The City State Corporate Vatican owns, The Royals, subjugated in 12th century, also owns the city state of London UK, as well as the city state of the District of Columbia, Washington Dc., the Corporate State Capital of the United Corporate State of Amerika, and this one burns, Canada is merely a Corporate appendage, owned by the same Corporate State of Amerika. Vatican capstone to the pyamid of the globalist regime and staunch supporter of the Fascist NWO. The pope claimed all people, souls, ( satanic ego ) all resources, wealth, of the entire planet.
This world is ruled by a lie. A fraudulent financial regime and all the funny monies flow to the vault in the vatican. There is no real America, nor Canada, nor many other developed countries, just a fictional delusion cultivated since the last staged bankruptcy of the world. NO law, no courts, no truth. Follow the link, read, understand.
Or not. Done my duty. NO arguement take it or leave it, I do not care a whit.  Don't meditate, don't read, don't think. Believe what you like. Be as insane as you like. Be as stupid as you like. All are free to be in my world. Already suffered yours BillS Peace.


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## pandamonium

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is....I'd like to have some of whT you're smokin!!!


----------



## Preparedoffgrid62

invision said:


> Lost too... I don't think I am in the same zip code as this one...


That is exactly what I am saying  Want to know how and why..just go read the material at the link below..I am in the middle of a move and can't spend more time with it..also, check out gnosis..through your own meditation and see what the answers are that come to you..as for gnostic churches well just more churchisms..we all carry truth within..some call it cosmic some call it Christ consciousnes..or superconscious..or satanic..free will rules in the end we all decide what we will follow or not.. and bear the consequences..I found gnosis long before I knew what the name of the experience was..not to convert you..just to do my job and offer the information and yu do the rest or not. I'll bear my own consequences too..but not at all afraid of that.
Near death also has a way of changing our views. Many ways to knowledge. Many walls put up by the followers or their religious leaders too. Trick is finding your truth, not being a cradle to grave recipient of some one elses fictions. 
Understanding the system allows for travelling through it unscathed.

http://www.freedomfiles.org/


----------



## Preparedoffgrid62

pandamonium said:


> Everybody is entitled to their opinion, my opinion is....I'd like to have some of whT you're smokin!!!


I don't smoke drugs  sorry. Well, tell you what..check this link..see what you think then..:0)

http://www.freedomfiles.org/


----------



## pandamonium

I do not adhere to any particular religion of Faith, I have my beliefs and am grown up enough to make my own decisions about things. If you feel you have to be on a band wagon that is your choice. Don't try to "enlighten" me. I really don't give a crap. There are more important thing in my life to worry about than what I saw on that link. You have fun with it but I don't need or want to be converted. Thanks anyway though!!:beercheer:


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## DJgang

Whew, sure are some long posts here, I got ADD or need to be doing something else and I think it's the later...whew...


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## UncleJoe

Let's nip this little religious debate in the bud. The topic is *"What to do during Martial Law or Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis."*

Don't want to close another thread because it wandered over the edge.


----------



## kejmack

PatriotSurvivalist said:


> MARTIAL LAW
> 
> The following guide will help you plan, prepare, and get ready in the event that martial law threatens you safety and well being. It is divided into two parts. The first part describes the framework for martial law and the second part the actions to take in preparing for the actual declaration of martial law.
> 
> INTERESTING FACTS
> 
> * Martial law is defined as: military rule or authority imposed on a civilian population when the civil authorities cannot maintain law and order, as in a time of war or during an emergency.
> 
> * Hitler turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship through executive orders.
> 
> * Executive Order 10995: All communications media are to be seized by the Federal Government. Radio, TV, newspapers, CB, Ham, telephones, and the internet will be under federal control. Hence, the First Amendment will be suspended indefinitely.
> 
> * Executive Order 10997: All electrical power, fuels, and all minerals well be seized by the federal government.
> 
> * Executive Order 10998: All food resources, farms and farm equipment will be seized by the government. You will not be allowed to hoard food since this is regulated.
> 
> * Executive Order 10999: All modes of transportation will go into government control. Any vehicle can be seized.
> 
> * Executive Order 11000: All civilians can be used for work under federal supervision.
> 
> * Executive Order 11490: Establishes presidential control over all US citizens, businesses, and churches in time of "emergency."
> 
> * Executive Order 12919: Directs various Cabinet officials to be constantly ready to take over virtually all aspects of the US economy during a State of National Emergency at the direction of the president.
> 
> * Executive Order 13010: Directs FEMA to take control over all government agencies in time of emergency. FEMA is under control of executive branch of the government.
> 
> * Executive Order 12656: "ASSIGNMENT OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS RESPONSIBILITIES", "A national emergency is any occurrence, including natural disaster, military attack, technological emergency, or other emergency that seriously degrades or seriously threatens the national security of the United States.
> Policy for national security emergency preparedness shall be established by the President." This order includes federal takeover of all local law enforcement agencies, wage and price controls, prohibits you from moving assets in or out of the United States, creates a draft, controls all travel in and out of the United States, and much more.


As someone already pointed out, these Executive Orders are OLD. Being the cynical and suspicious person that I am, I suspect this thread is more about advertising your company. We have a Vendor Section for that.


----------



## kejmack

Preparedoffgrid62 said:


> I don't smoke drugs  sorry. Well, tell you what..check this link..see what you think then..:0)
> 
> http://www.freedomfiles.org/


I think that website is nonsense. No foot notes, no facts. Just a bunch of conspiracy theories. More tin foil stuff. The only way that stuff is believable is if you are smoking something or if you WANT to believe it.


----------



## piglett

well let's get back at it
What to do during Martial Law or Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis???
who wants to weigh in??
what have you been doing/want to do to prep for this type of crisis?








piglett


----------



## LincTex

piglett said:


> w
> What to do during
> 
> 1) Martial Law or
> 2) Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis???


1) Only so much one can do.
2) If they are disorganized they can be dealt with. Organized groups with an experienced leader will require an equal/greater and opposite effort.


----------



## hiwall

"What to do"

Hide, hide, hide


----------



## teotwaki

piglett said:


> well let's get back at it
> What to do during Martial Law or Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis???
> who wants to weigh in??
> what have you been doing/want to do to prep for this type of crisis?
> 
> piglett


One angle to work is to become one of "them" so as to be able to semi-officially know what is going down. Organizations such as local Search and Rescue, police dept. volunteers, CERT (Citizen Emergency Response Team), Civil Air Patrol and so on have a chain of command that may be forewarned of impending lockdowns and possibly give you a little more "wiggle room" to pass thru road blocks and checkpoints.


----------



## Resto

hiwall said:


> "What to do"
> 
> Hide, hide, hide


Im with you...I plan to hunker down and listen. :beercheer:
Planning a SHTF party, kinda like a huricane party.


----------



## Magus

Don't forget to keep your maps up to date.ya don't want to bug out cross country right into a fema camp.


----------



## pandamonium

If Martial Law was declared it would mean the S already HTF. In that case I would already be "disapeared". If found, I would have to evaluate the situation and make decisions on course of action depending on circumstances. Again, staying alive is the goal, stay alive to fight another day. Going down in a blaze of glory wont accomplish a damn thing. If I get "collected", the goal is, as always, to escape and get as many others out as possible, IF possible!


----------



## teotwaki

Magus said:


> Don't forget to keep your maps up to date.ya don't want to bug out cross country right into a fema camp.


Dang. I was hoping to go to Camp Ronald McDonald's









http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/fema/list/#us
.
.
.


----------



## Padre

There's nobody here but us chickens, nobody here at all....


----------



## piglett

LincTex said:


> 1) Only so much one can do.
> 2) If they are disorganized they can be dealt with. Organized groups with an experienced leader will require an equal/greater and opposite effort.


if you have good cover & they are in the open you mite be be able to send them on their way. i would not want to go up against a group unless i knew their size


----------



## kejmack

The first thing they are gonna do is shut down the internet.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48151460/Obama_s_Internet_Order_Power_Grab_or_Simple_Update


----------



## Jimmy24

piglett said:


> well let's get back at it
> What to do during Martial Law or Civil & Urban Unrest during a Major Crisis???
> who wants to weigh in??
> what have you been doing/want to do to prep for this type of crisis?
> 
> piglett


Well just so most will know, the small rual towns get plenty of attention.

After Katrina, we had a company of NG here in our little town of 3500. Plus numerous LEO from out of state. During Issac they brought in a company of NG again.

I'm sure your small town has a NG Armory in it. MS has MANY. The thing is, your little armory will not be the ones doing the work of the gov in your town. They will be shipped somewhere else. I think you know why....

Though we have no martial law in our town after Katrina, there was a very strict 6pm - 6am curfew. They allowed us utility people out working to be on the road but no one else for any reason. Also any sort of illegal activity was delt with quickly. Which in most cases are fine. Looters are, well fair game...

You should be able to BUG-IN if at all possible IMHO. And wait it out. If it comes to you, your plan should be already in place.

Jimmy


----------



## Jimmy24

kejmack said:


> I think that website is nonsense. No foot notes, no facts. Just a bunch of conspiracy theories. More tin foil stuff. The only way that stuff is believable is if you are smoking something or if you WANT to believe it.


Agreed. Pure goobly-goo. vract:

Jimmy


----------



## teotwaki

kejmack said:


> The first thing they are gonna do is shut down the internet.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/48151460/Obama_s_Internet_Order_Power_Grab_or_Simple_Update


The actual E/O is right here but don't read it if you are drowsy.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...national-security-and-emergency-preparedness-

The roots of this go pretty far back to the Cuban missle crisis. Next was the "National Communications System" which is not an actual "system" so much as it is the Fed Gov't trying to "facilitate voluntary collaboration" which means they use your systems to facilitate their communications. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Communications_System

Basically I agree that taking over the Internet is in their plans.


----------



## BillM

The thing to do during Martial law is to not draw attention to yourself.

Lay low. Look like everyone else. This would apply to your home , clothing and situation.

If the goverment is handing out food, take it.

If they are collecting firearms give them a couple.

Stay off the streets as much as possable.

Hide the things you are not susposed to have or are not expected to have.

Ride it out, without conflicting with the athoritys.

Makeing political statements should be reserved for situations where you have a chance to survive makeing them.


----------



## Theriot

Just sent my repersenitive a email asking for him explain the need for NDAA. How soon do y'all think I'll be investigated !


----------



## FrankW

In regards to the original post:

I dont think even in a repressive gov't they will have the time/manpower to do hosue to hosue searches.
House oto hosue Knocks may be something else though...

They might knock on the door and ask you to give 'em all your guns...

I'd go in the back and give 'em my taurus snubbie and one rifle with mags and some of lesser ammo.
even a fraction of my supplies will be believable as a real stash.

my FFL told me if thye every declare martial law and make a gun grab he prefer to burn all his records even if it means he has to go to jail.
that would be his form of passive resistance.
And then they will leave.


----------



## Theriot

I think I may loss my gun at the deer lease this season.


----------



## Theriot

They can take over all control of our water,electrical and food when ever they want. No threat needed because they declared America as a battlefield NOW. They can force citizens to labor and arms NOW. What is this huge threat they are worried about? They keep reminding us of 911 but what would NDAA done to stop the towers from falling? With such a small percentage of the population Muslim why the huge trashing of our rights? What are not telling us? What do they know and are hiding from us?


----------



## labouton

kejmack said:


> The first thing they are gonna do is shut down the internet.
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/48151460/Obama_s_Internet_Order_Power_Grab_or_Simple_Update


It may be more effective for them to shut down the electrical grid.


----------



## Theriot

From what I read they have rights to all power systems including solar. Is this your personal system also ? If they think you shouldn't have more money than the poor I would be willing to bet they don't want you having power when others don't.


----------



## BillM

*My Obama phone*



Theriot said:


> From what I read they have rights to all power systems including solar. Is this your personal system also ? If they think you shouldn't have more money than the poor I would be willing to bet they don't want you having power when others don't.


I just hope they let me get one of those free "Obama phones" :usaflag:


----------



## LongRider

*An Internet Hoax*

I have not read this entire thread hopefully someone has already said this.
Please verify you information before posting internet hoaxes according to 
Snopes this is and internet hoax
Fact Check also confirms this is an internet hoax.
For an actual list of the Obomanation's executive orders see BlogSpot
Presidential Executive Orders are sequentially numbered the Obomanation's start with #EO-13489


----------



## emilnon

LongRider said:


> I have not read this entire thread hopefully someone has already said this.
> Please verify you information before posting internet hoaxes according to
> Snopes this is and internet hoax
> Fact Check also confirms this is an internet hoax.
> For an actual list of the Obomanation's executive orders see BlogSpot
> Presidential Executive Orders are sequentially numbered the Obomanation's start with #EO-13489


I'm not saying anything to the accuracy of things in this thread. Just have to say- how do you know you can trust snopes??? I don't anymore!


----------



## LongRider

JayJay said:


> I did read a document of a Chinese leader speaking to military leaders, years ago..his point was they hadn't invaded the U.S. yet because behind every door of every household was a gun..go figure.


Actually that is attributed to Isoroku Yamamoto, Commander-in-Chief of the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II. He is quoted as saying "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." But it is unsubstantiated or at least I can find no credible source for him saying that. Though the story goes that as he was college educated in the US he was familiar with our gun culture and said it arguing against the attack on Pearl Harbor.


----------



## LongRider

emilnon said:


> I'm not saying anything to the accuracy of things in this thread. Just have to say- how do you know you can trust snopes??? I don't anymore!


I checked several sites and posted two that I trust. Fact check for yourself his Executive Orders as publicly recorded on several credible internet sites pick one you trust. As I said the first clue is that Executive Orders are numbered in sequence. Obama's Executive Orders start at #EO-13489, the ones on the OP date back to Kennedy. Again confirm that for yourself or not.

As should be clear from my first post I am not a fan of the Obomination but I do not see the need to post lies to discredit him. I think that hurts the credibility of Patriotic Americans cause


----------



## emilnon

LongRider said:


> I checked several sites and posted two that I trust. Fact check for yourself his Executive Orders as publicly recorded on several credible internet sites pick one you trust. As I said the first clue is that Executive Orders are numbered in sequence. Obama's Executive Orders start at #EO-13489, the ones on the OP date back to Kennedy. Again confirm that for yourself or not.
> 
> As should be clear from my first post I am not a fan of the Obomination but I do not see the need to post lies to discredit him. I think that hurts the credibility of Patriotic Americans cause


Like i said not picking on what anyone said. Just playing devil's advocate


----------



## LincTex

I know that there are many "old" executive orders allowing the government to acquire this or that... but even if they are no longer in effect, I doubt there would be much hindrance in bringing them back if needed.

Just thought of something.... you know, "in the movies", if a cop needs a car quickly, he just orders the next motorist he sees to get out so he can use their car and chase the bad guy, right? Can they LEGALLY do that? I will bet a judge will typically side with the officer in his "time of need".

Executive order OR NOT, if a uniformed agent (whether Federal, LEO or military) really needed something, most people would give it to them without a lot of resistance.Those who did resist would end up on their $4it list very quickly.


----------



## labouton

LincTex said:


> I know that there are many "old" executive orders allowing the government to acquire this or that... but even if they are no longer in effect, I doubt there would be much hindrance in bringing them back if needed.
> 
> Just thought of something.... you know, "in the movies", if a cop needs a car quickly, he just orders the next motorist he sees to get out so he can use their car and chase the bad guy, right? Can they LEGALLY do that? I will bet a judge will typically side with the officer in his "time of need".
> 
> Executive order OR NOT, if a uniformed agent (whether Federal, LEO or military) really needed something, most people would give it to them without a lot of resistance.Those who did resist would end up on their $4it list very quickly.


Check out Executive Order 13603


----------



## BillM

During WWII Americans were encouraged to donate firearms to go to England to arm the civilan population in advance of a feared Nazi invasion.


----------



## hiwall

there is no limit to the number of Executive Orders that can be issued(I think). so the sitting president can churn them out as needed in a short time. and can implement them before the ink is dry.


----------



## LincTex

labouton said:


> Check out Executive Order 13603


Executive Order 13603
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order (Executive Order 13603) is an order of the United States President signed by President Barack Obama on March 16, 2012.[1] The purpose of this executive order is to delegate authority and address national defense resource policies and programs under the Defense Production Act of 1950.[1]

Some have labeled the executive order totalitarian and a preparation for peace-time martial law.

Footnote 1 references: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press...order-national-defense-resources-preparedness

(this is just a partial copy and paste)

Executive Order -- National Defense Resources Preparedness

EXECUTIVE ORDER

NATIONAL DEFENSE RESOURCES PREPAREDNESS

By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (50 U.S.C. App. 2061 et seq.), and section 301 of title 3, United States Code, and as Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, it is hereby ordered as follows:

PART I - PURPOSE, POLICY, AND IMPLEMENTATION

Section 101. Purpose. This order delegates authorities and addresses national defense resource policies and programs under the Defense Production Act of 1950, as amended (the "Act").

Sec. 102. Policy. The United States must have an industrial and technological base capable of meeting national defense requirements and capable of contributing to the technological superiority of its national defense equipment in peacetime and in times of national emergency. The domestic industrial and technological base is the foundation for national defense preparedness. The authorities provided in the Act shall be used to strengthen this base and to ensure it is capable of responding to the national defense needs of the United States.

Sec. 103. General Functions. Executive departments and agencies (agencies) responsible for plans and programs relating to national defense (as defined in section 801(j) of this order), or for resources and services needed to support such plans and programs, shall:

(a) identify requirements for the full spectrum of emergencies, including essential military and civilian demand;

(b) assess on an ongoing basis the capability of the domestic industrial and technological base to satisfy requirements in peacetime and times of national emergency, specifically evaluating the availability of the most critical resource and production sources, including subcontractors and suppliers, materials, skilled labor, and professional and technical personnel;

(c) be prepared, in the event of a potential threat to the security of the United States, to take actions necessary to ensure the availability of adequate resources and production capability, including services and critical technology, for national defense requirements;

(d) improve the efficiency and responsiveness of the domestic industrial base to support national defense requirements; and

(e) foster cooperation between the defense and commercial sectors for research and development and for acquisition of materials, services, components, and equipment to enhance industrial base efficiency and responsiveness.

Sec. 104. Implementation. (a) The National Security Council and Homeland Security Council, in conjunction with the National Economic Council, shall serve as the integrated policy making forum for consideration and formulation of national defense resource preparedness policy and shall make recommendations to the President on the use of authorities under the Act.

(b) The Secretary of Homeland Security shall:

(1) advise the President on issues of national defense resource preparedness and on the use of the authorities and functions delegated by this order;

(2) provide for the central coordination of the plans and programs incident to authorities and functions delegated under this order, and provide guidance to agencies assigned functions under this order, developed in consultation with such agencies; and

(3) report to the President periodically concerning all program activities conducted pursuant to this order.

(c) The Defense Production Act Committee, described in section 701 of this order, shall:

(1) in a manner consistent with section 2(b) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2062(b), advise the President through the Assistant to the President and National Security Advisor, the Assistant to the President for Homeland Security and Counter-terrorism, and the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy on the effective use of the authorities under the Act; and

(2) prepare and coordinate an annual report to the Congress pursuant to section 722(d) of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2171(d).

(d) The Secretary of Commerce, in cooperation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and other agencies, shall:

(1) analyze potential effects of national emergencies on actual production capability, taking into account the entire production system, including shortages of resources, and develop recommended preparedness measures to strengthen capabilities for production increases in national emergencies; and

(2) perform industry analyses to assess capabilities of the industrial base to support the national defense, and develop policy recommendations to improve the international competitiveness of specific domestic industries and their abilities to meet national defense program needs.

PART II - PRIORITIES AND ALLOCATIONS

Sec. 201. Priorities and Allocations Authorities. (a) The authority of the President conferred by section 101 of the Act, 50 U.S.C. App. 2071, to require acceptance and priority performance of contracts or orders (other than contracts of employment) to promote the national defense over performance of any other contracts or orders, and to allocate materials, services, and facilities as deemed necessary or appropriate to promote the national defense, is delegated to the following agency heads:

(1) the Secretary of Agriculture with respect to food resources, food resource facilities, livestock resources, veterinary resources, plant health resources, and the domestic distribution of farm equipment and commercial fertilizer;

(2) the Secretary of Energy with respect to all forms of energy;

(3) the Secretary of Health and Human Services with respect to health resources;

(4) the Secretary of Transportation with respect to all forms of civil transportation;

(5) the Secretary of Defense with respect to water resources; and

(6) the Secretary of Commerce with respect to all other materials, services, and facilities, including construction materials.

(b) The Secretary of each agency delegated authority under subsection (a) of this section (resource departments) shall plan for and issue regulations to prioritize and allocate resources and establish standards and procedures by which the authority shall be used to promote the national defense, under both emergency and non-emergency conditions. Each Secretary shall authorize the heads of other agencies, as appropriate, to place priority ratings on contracts and orders for materials, services, and facilities needed in support of programs approved under section 202 of this order.


----------



## LongRider

LincTex said:


> Executive order OR NOT, if a uniformed agent (whether Federal, LEO or military) really needed something, most people would give it to them without a lot of resistance.Those who did resist would end up on their $4it list very quickly.


What I see as horrifying is the shift over the past few decades of the peoples willingness to unquestionably submit to any order by authority figures. Be it detaining some one for questioning without just cause, demanding that we produce ID papers or demand that someone stand for a search without just cause. Those were things that just a generation or two ago were unthinkable. We were Americans. We did not have to carry papers to identify our selves. WE had no need to prove who we are unless we had committed a crime and were under arrest. We did not allow police to search us or our property unless they had a warrant. What we had or did not have was none of their damn business. We did not have to answer questions from the police ever.
We did not have to prove we were law abiding citizens. That was a given by virtue of the fact that we were walking down the street free men.

Now a days it seems we are all suspected criminals and terrorists required to prove our innocence.
If you do not produce ID on demand you are being uncooperative and immediately suspect as some kind of criminal or terrorist. No doubt there are folks right here that think the police are only doing their job in the interest of public safety when they stop you make sure you are not a wanted criminal, when they ask for your ID and see those who do not comply as some kind of fanatic trouble maker.

Just as there are those who believe if you refuse to allow the police to search, you, your home or unwilling to submit to an anal probe without a warrant or probable cause you are again being uncooperative obviously a criminal or terrorist with something to hide.

If you refuse to answer questions by the police or authorities, ask for a lawyer or plead the fifth it automatically confirms the fact that you are a criminal or terrorist with something to hide. Otherwise why would you be unwilling to reveal every detail of your life to the government. Completely forgotten is the fact that the right to refuse to answer questions, the right to an attorney and fifth amendment were specifically designed to protect the innocent. Designed to protect our our rights to privacy and dignity.

To me that is what is the most horrifying. That it is not the mindset of just the government and the police but that it is the default mindset of the average American. I have no doubt that as this is being read more than a few wondered whats wrong with giving the police their ID when asked for it. In fact thinking of reasons of why they should. After all they have nothing to hide. Just as many think it is OK for the police top search them, as they have nothing to hide. Again thinking of reasons why it is OK for the police to search them at will. Nor do they have a problem answering any question the police or authorities may ask if them, because once again they are innocent.

This is the same kind of distorted thinking that my mother saw in Europe prior to the Nazi take over. It was that blind trust of government that led up to the extermination of millions of undesirables because people had come to accept that if the authorities wanted to do something or advocated a plan of action they were thought to be above reproach. That the government did so because they were operating in the peoples best interest and knew what was best. So the population blindly followed along.

What Americans have seemed to have forgotten is that those protections and rights have been preserved to PROTECT THE INNOCENT. Because the government does NOT have our best interest at heart. We forget that the atrocities by governments are not committed only by our enemies. That our own government is perfectly capable of knowingly imprisoning innocent men and women. Of stripping an entire race of people of all of their belongings and marching them off into concentration camps, and imprisoning them in sub human conditions. Of gunning down people in their church for practicing any religion that does not meet Federal approval. As you said we find increasingly that when we do not cow tow to the demands of authorities we find our selves on the A hole list. That lead to retaliations like Pine Ridge, Waco, Ruby Ridge, Wounded Knee or American students being gunned down for protesting. Who knows how many others who have simply disappeared or have had their lives destroyed by so called investigations. Imagine what would happen to your life if the feds started showing up at your work, business, social club, church for some routine questioning on an undisclosed investigation?


----------



## LincTex

LongRider said:


> Now a days it seems we are all suspected criminals and terrorists required to prove our innocence.If you do not produce ID on demand you are being uncooperative and immediately suspect as some kind of criminal or terrorist.


I know..... so very sad....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes


----------



## pandamonium

LongRider said:


> What I see as horrifying is the shift over the past few decades of the peoples willingness to unquestionably submit to any order by authority figures.


I see this as success of the progressive politicians agenda. As in the grooming of the public to believe that our government is all knowing and all powerful, effectively creating the sheeple. This is exactly what the progressives want. People who cannot think for themselves, therefor relying on the government to make the basic decisions of life for them.

SHEEPLE, THE REASON OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO RUN RAMPANT!!


----------



## Meerkat

pandamonium said:


> I see this as success of the progressive politicians agenda. As in the grooming of the public to believe that our government is all knowing and all powerful, effectively creating the sheeple. This is exactly what the progressives want. People who cannot think for themselves, therefor relying on the government to make the basic decisions of life for them.
> 
> SHEEPLE, THE REASON OUR GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO RUN RAMPANT!!


 I think it has to be an unnatural power posessing our minds.Like invasion of the body snatchers,haha.Actually I think its Lucifean.:dunno:


----------



## kreativemuse

There is a new order going around where they are taking guns from vets. I am prior military myself and my husband is still in. We have to jump through hoops at the moment to get a hand gun in washington state because they do not want to give to many guns away (that is what the seller told me). I dont know how true that part is but i know they are takings guns away. They are taking away our freedoms.


----------



## LincTex

kreativemuse said:


> they are taking guns from vets.


I did a search for this and came up with VERY little, mainly its the suicidal vets "they" want to take guns from.

http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/05/16/obamas-va-attacking-second-amendment-rights-of-veterans/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a-henigan/the-va-tells-the-truth-ab_b_1521027.html


----------



## partdeux

LincTex said:


> I did a search for this and came up with VERY little, mainly its the suicidal vets "they" want to take guns from.
> 
> http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/05/16/obamas-va-attacking-second-amendment-rights-of-veterans/
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a-henigan/the-va-tells-the-truth-ab_b_1521027.html


As I've read (on the internet  ) it, if you report to your dr if you own a firearm, and report anger or other dangerous thoughts, the dr has to drop a dime.


----------



## LongRider

kreativemuse said:


> We have to jump through hoops at the moment to get a hand gun in washington state


Washington State is actually a pretty gun friendly state with the exception of the ban on automatics. I know a biggie but we did make progress with getting silencers legal. Of course it is not a free state but the permit process is what five minutes? No more than thirty days before your permit arrives. Pretty short wait period compared to many other states. Until than you are always free to open carry. Not saying we do not have a long way to go but we do have some pretty decent pro gun laws on the books. It is the only state I know of that is required to pay all of your legal fees if you are charged in a shooting and prove self defense, which in turn keeps over zealous anti self defense persecutors in check. Has always been a castle law state and has always been open carry state.
So while we are not a free state like Vermont, Wyoming, Arizona, Alaska we do have some of the best gun laws on the books far better than decent Texas of Florida for example and now where near anti states like The Peoples Republic Of California, or Illinois.


----------



## LongRider

LincTex said:


> I know..... so very sad....
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes


What I wish is that people could talk to those who grew up in Europe before Hitler took over Germany. The German people had already become indoctrinated with the idea that the government had their best interest at heart and was capable of saving them. Realize that the people voted Hitler in. He was the savior the voice of change. I know how melodramatic that sounds but when you talk to those folks who have already seen what is going in this country now and see the fear in their eyes. It starts to hit home.


----------



## LongRider

LincTex said:


> I did a search for this and came up with VERY little, mainly its the suicidal vets "they" want to take guns from.
> 
> http://www.pagunblog.com/2012/05/16/obamas-va-attacking-second-amendment-rights-of-veterans/
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dennis-a-henigan/the-va-tells-the-truth-ab_b_1521027.html


It has been awhile but as I recall it is hidden in text that in effect says those who have been treated in patient or out patient for mental illness are to be be banned from gun ownership. That covers any soldier who has sought counseling for PTSD depression nightmares. Many units now require PTSD evaluation and counseling for all combat soldiers in their units. A policy I support but the law would than prohibit them form gun ownership or concealed carry.
There is a massive difference between a whack job and someone who has an emotional reaction to taking human life or watching brothers he loves die in combat. The suicide tact is another excuse/justification but you need to read the legislation as it was written. You brother gets maimed for life, killed or you are depressed over killing people. Get some counseling, diagnosed as depressed a bureaucrat interprets that as suicidal. Now you are banned from gun ownership for life no hearing no appeal no due process because some liberal anti gun shrink or bureaucrat decides this is one way to further his anti self defense agenda.


----------



## Tribal Warlord Thug

......this is not pre-ww2 germany...but the majority of law enforcement sure do believe it is for them............


----------



## Turtle

rabidcoyote666 said:


> ......this is not pre-ww2 germany...but the majority of law enforcement sure do believe it is for them............


I wasn't aware that you spoke for "the majority of law enforcement." Pray tell, on what facts do you base this nonsense that LEOs are mostly a bunch of jack-booted thugs?


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## BillM

My job was to safeguard peoples rights and property.

The State of Kentucky never gave me any "Jack Boots".


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## hiwall

"The State of Kentucky never gave me any "Jack Boots". "

So you were just a regular thug without the "jack boots"?
Sorry I couldn't help it.


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## LongRider

*I am a Verbose SOB*



rabidcoyote666 said:


> ......this is not pre-ww2 germany...but the majority of law enforcement sure do believe it is for them............


I can see your point I have run into a few of those. Katrina made it apparent many LEO would follow any orders given to them regardless of whether or not they violated the Constitution. Not the least of which was confiscating everyones guns and the infamous beat down of that grandmother to take her guns away from her. But I would not say all or even the majority, yet. I know the Oath Keepers did Prove That There WERE Troops Who Refused to Confiscate Guns During Katrina and I know many LEO; Federal, State, local, and military who are members of Oath Keepers or at least supporters because the reality is for some openly being a member could have a negative effect on them and their career due to the nature of their departments or units. I believe that our future liberty will largely depend upon how many LEO and military will just follow orders and how many will protect the Constitution as they are sworn to do and be true servants to the people.

That said that was not really my point. My focus was on the people. How brainwashed, conditioned and programed the American people have become. As I said it is the people who have come to believe that


LongRider said:


> we are all suspected criminals and terrorists required to prove our innocence.
> If you do not produce ID on demand you are being uncooperative and immediately suspect as some kind of criminal or terrorist. No doubt there are folks right here that think the police are only doing their job in the interest of public safety when they stop you make sure you are not a wanted criminal, by they asking for your ID and see those who do not comply as some kind of fanatic trouble maker.
> 
> Just as there are those who believe if you refuse to allow the police to search, you, your home or unwilling to submit to an anal probe without a warrant or probable cause you are again being uncooperative obviously a criminal or terrorist with something to hide.
> 
> If you refuse to answer questions by the police or authorities, ask for a lawyer or plead the fifth it automatically confirms the fact that you are a criminal or terrorist with something to hide. Otherwise why would you be unwilling to reveal every detail of your life to the government.


I believe the people have become so brainwashed that say you are on trial and the jury is told

A) You refused to present you ID until you were legally required to do so.
B) That you refused to answer any questions until your attorney was present
C) That you pled the fifth to many of the polices questions.
D) That you refused to allow the police to search your home car or person without a warrant or probable cause.
The jury will think you are guilty of a crime before any evidence of criminal activity is presented. They have been so brainwashed that failure to submit to any demand by authorities is evidence of guilt. Otherwise why would you not give your ID during the Terry Stop, Why would you not answer questions and let every nook and cranny of your life be searched if you are an innocent person? In short exercising your Constitutional Rights is evidence of a criminal to many Americans. It in fact has gotten so that many people assume that if you are even charged with a crime you must be guilty. The state no longer needs to prove your guilt, you have to prove your innocence in the face of over whelming evidence that you are guilty. Because the public believes that exercising your Constitutional rights is proof of guilt
That your are charged with a crime is proof positive of your guilt, innocent people do not get charged with a crime.

That according to the people who lived through it this is the exact same mind set of pre WWII Germany. Before Hitler came into power.

The second part I was trying to get across was the American People's increasing dependance on the the government to solve all of our problems. The growing belief that those in government are morally superior and more intelligent than the average citizen. Better qualified to solve our problems than we are. The consensus being that whatever the government proposes is in our best interest. Otherwise the government would not propose it. Than in order to benefit from the government superior and benevolent solutions we are obligated to comply with the government dictates. Proof of that lies in the growing infringements into our Constitutional Right from TSA to the Patriot Act and on and on. There was a time those infringement would have caused open rioting in the streets. Now it seems not a month goes by that another "slight"modification to our rights is being made.

Again according to the people who lived through it this is the exact same mind set of pre WWII Germany. Before Hitler came into power.

So when the people voted Hitler into power (people often forget Hitler was voted into office) The German people were accustomed to allowing the government to take the lead. His plan to rebuild Germany infrastructure, to create jobs at government expense. Was proof the government could solve Germany's problems. When they started to euthanize the insane, to reduce the drain on national resources and eliminate insanity from the gene pool it was praised and accepted for creating a safer healthier society. When they extended that to include mentally retarded and mentally defective, the German people knew the government knew best and so on until martial law was imposed WITH THE FULL SUPPORT OF THE PEOPLE. That is the point I was trying to make. That I am told by those who where there that they see the American People going down the very same path and when martial law is declared in the United States Of America. It will happen with the support of the majority of Americans. We are now in exactly the same place Germany was, accepting the same programing and brainwashing. For proof look at George Orwell's *"1984"*. What part of that book is not part of America today? Look at the modifications and work around to our Constitution over the past 16 years. All in the name of security, with the full support of the majority of Americans.

I am delirious tired and off my meds. Hope this makes sense and not just the ravings of a lunatic :soapboxrant:


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