# Money Matters



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

We all know that our government suffers from mental masturbation (always debating with no results) but many citizens out there have the same illness, spending money in useless habits or junk that offer very little or no family value what so ever, yes is their own money but in today`s economy citizens should know better especially with all the talk of economic shtf or doomsday cometh, take for instance this family ;https://homes.yahoo.com/news/why-one-family-is-happy-with-their--275-monthly-tv-bill-235008532.html, I have notice that this is a very common illness today in America even in my own family and friends I have notice it ,people complaining at the groceries or about their bills while holding fancy expensive cell phones or driving new vehicles, like my neighbor he keeps talking about his excellent credit but keeps borrowing my tools .


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It really depends on how much money you make and how you choose to spend it. I suspect that the family in the article is extravagant in other areas of their financial lives as well.

However, if you make $100,000 a year you could afford a TV and internet package like that. Or if you have an average income and don't go out to eat or if you don't take vacations. Or if you don't buy new cars.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Dad always said, "Don't spend today what you'd wish you had tomorrow."

That nice new shiny vehicle impulse purchase is fun until about the 3rd or 4th monthly payment.

A bigger wide screen that was a necessity before for the Super Bowl party soon became a liability after.

$100 a month smart phone bill just to save writing a letter full of nonsense and a postage stamp?

Go into a marriage understanding it will be a life's work and commitment. Otherwise just give the girlfriend a house and walk away, cheaper then going thru a divorce.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

It is trying to live the expected American Dream. You go to work and Bob just bought a new 2014 Canyonaro. There is a little envy there as you think of your 1999 Creekbed 4-door. You've seen the ads, 0% down, 0% financing, TWICE blue book for your trade in!!!! So, head off to get the 2015 Canyonaro! You are the man now!

Bob lives in that new housing complex, brand new home, fancy kitchen... You, You think of your 30 year old home, outdated kitchen, small yard... Off to the bank!!! 0% down, 0% financing!!!! Won't they be jealous when you tell them at work.

Bob pulls his G7 phone out of his pocket, it tilts, it whirls, phone, internet, satellite TV, he can talk to his home on it - Do I have any milk in the refrigerator? - You have 22.4 ounces of milk left.!!! You, you pull out your flip-phone and look at it. Why shouldn't I be able to ask my refrigerator that too??? Off to the store!!!

I am not putting Bob down, not at all. There are several posters here who appear to be doing very well and can afford such things. Is the big green monster nibbling away at me about it? Sure is! Do I make it my life to try to do one better? Not at all. BUT!!! The American way IS to do them one better. Watch MSM TV or read any publication, it is about consumerism. Our whole society is based on consumerism, NOT producing anything now. TPTB will keep pumping we need to buy this to keep up to us. It is the only thing keeping the U. S. economy alive.

Sure, folks will say we are leaders in technology. Technology for what? Computer programs and systems are not actual products, they do help people who make products work more efficiently, in some cases. It is not like they manufacture an item that is functional (I know I will get blasted for that one!) Can you weed a garden with a computer program? Can you use it in any way besides on a computer? Does it create more jobs?

Once a program is created it can be distributed with no additional manufacturing. I create it, SEND it to someone who sends it to someone else who distributes it to a consumer. With a hoe, someone had to mine the ore, ship the ore, smelt the ore, manufacture the hoe and then send to a store that sells the how.

Sorry, it has been hot out and I tend to get off track, my apologies.

To the OP. We are a consumer based society and if we do not continue to keep up with the Jones', our economy dies. Well, our 'official GDP' does anyway.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

'To the OP. We are a consumer based society and if we do not continue to keep up with the Jones', our economy dies.'

Exactly; and we aren't playing. So, bring in another 10,000,000 Mexicans that will.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

BillS said:


> It really depends on how much money you make and how you choose to spend it. I suspect that the family in the article is extravagant in other areas of their financial lives as well.
> 
> However, if you make $100,000 a year you could afford a TV and internet package like that. Or if you have an average income and don't go out to eat or if you don't take vacations. Or if you don't buy new cars.


You hit the nail on the head...

For some people, a $200 cell phone bill, a $650 car payment, and a $3,700 a month mortgage payment seems crazy, insane, a waste... Yet, for some of those paying those numbers - it is the equivalent of grabbing a dollar menu item from McDees... Let's say I want a new writing pen - say an $850 Monte Blanc pen, I go buy it. Yes, writing pen - platinum and carbon fiber - $850... So what, who cares, and why should anyone but me?

As for the computer comment - actually after 19 years in the industry, I can argue both ways - what is gone is the manufacturing jobs, and very few have woken up to realize it is perminant... During the 2012 2nd Debate, Obama actually stated a truth - he basically said, those manufacturing jobs are gone, they won't be coming back... Sure some will, but an equivalent amount will head back out... Where we are falling down is that - few push their kids hard in school... And I mean PUSH them to the point that they MUST get 90% or higher grades while taking honors classes, so when they are done with high school - they ARE going off to college for a higher education.

I come from a rural town in Ohio. When I grew up, my parents were the ones who pushed - and I mean hard 3.6 GPA all honors was considered ok, 3.8 was expected. I went off to college, I quit, but I had also been pushed in computers since I was in 4th grade, so I got extremely lucky entering the market just before the dot-com took off, and I was a sponge and a career ladder jumper... My career propelled me out of the state to a large city that can afforded me even higher salaries, and the ability to start my own firm, which pushed me further up into the stratosphere of income... My daughter, I push just like my parents, her school - while public is a 5 star rated high school, where they push hard too.... Yet, I have friends who still live in that same small town - today it is filled with meth addicts, extreme unemployment, two factories gone for good, and yet the schools and the parents of the kids there are pumping out factory job hopefuls...

That is what I don't get...

This space for rent.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*The economy and politics*

A senator`s opinion.
https://screen.yahoo.com/katiecouric/sen-elizabeth-warren-politicians-too-212244606.html


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## Ozarker (Jul 29, 2014)

Big part of the problem now is that many politicians, as much as I dislike them, were kicked out and replaced with ignorance of how government works, they fail on so many fronts and have no skills in political negotiation or the levels of governmental functions that they are totally lost and ineffective to operate the government. It takes more brains to run the government than jumping on soap boxes, waving banners and flags. I'm not speaking of ideology I'm speaking of having educated, worldly, sensible, tactful, intelligent people taking their place, ones who will not get on bandwagons because they can't think for themselves, that won't buy in an be bought off.....where do we find these new leaders? My congressman has only a high school education and passed a real estate school, yet now he's to determine world economic conditions and act in our national interests......please give me a break! 

If I were King and I could make the rules, I'd say that no one could be eligible to go to Washington unless 1. they had a degree, 2. had served in the military for at least 3 years, 3. served at least 5 years at state level governmental positions, appointed or elected or in federal service at a level of GS 12 or above for 5 years. Anyone with that experience would have more of a clue of what to do than someone who had never accomplished any of those requirements and owned a tire shop. What you end up with are people who can only follow orders from a few back home and join the heard. We shouldn't be sending unqualified people to DC much less those who can't grasp the responsibilities. 
So, kick them all out and replace them with who? Any great citizens willing to serve.....not really, but there are many who want the power, the fame, the money and the benefits. 
Use to be, we only promoted people to their level of incompetence in the military, now it seems we promote leaders the same way.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Ozarker said:


> Big part of the problem now is that many politicians, as much as I dislike them, were kicked out and replaced with ignorance of how government works, they fail on so many fronts and have no skills in political negotiation or the levels of governmental functions that they are totally lost and ineffective to operate the government. It takes more brains to run the government than jumping on soap boxes, waving banners and flags. I'm not speaking of ideology I'm speaking of having educated, worldly, sensible, tactful, intelligent people taking their place, ones who will not get on bandwagons because they can't think for themselves, that won't buy in an be bought off.....where do we find these new leaders? My congressman has only a high school education and passed a real estate school, yet now he's to determine world economic conditions and act in our national interests......please give me a break!
> 
> If I were King and I could make the rules, I'd say that no one could be eligible to go to Washington unless 1. they had a degree, 2. had served in the military for at least 3 years, 3. served at least 5 years at state level governmental positions, appointed or elected or in federal service at a level of GS 12 or above for 5 years. Anyone with that experience would have more of a clue of what to do than someone who had never accomplished any of those requirements and owned a tire shop. What you end up with are people who can only follow orders from a few back home and join the heard. We shouldn't be sending unqualified people to DC much less those who can't grasp the responsibilities.
> So, kick them all out and replace them with who? Any great citizens willing to serve.....not really, but there are many who want the power, the fame, the money and the benefits.
> Use to be, we only promoted people to their level of incompetence in the military, now it seems we promote leaders the same way.


Ok. I'm going to show my ignorance here in a post. Before I comment, I just want to make sure I have the facts clear.

You are saying the problem is voters are electing regular folks to Govt. positions, to make decisions for them. They have no idea how the current system functions, so are ineffectual as they will only do what their constituents (folks who elected them ) want. The only experience they have is running a business, having employees, paying taxes, dealing with Govt. regulations, and making a profit while not going bankrupt?

We should only elect people who have been in, or are familiar with the current way Government functions. The people who elected them are not always right, you have to elect someone who will know what is best for them and do that.

That about sum it up?


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Before I checked out of the cable paying crowd, I watched a documentary around 2007.
It was about 'house lust'. Buying to keep up or better the neighbors.
I think of that now as we search for a little 2 bedroom, one bath with a couple acres in the country.
No, house lust isn't my problem--not having an income to live on after my husband is gone IS the problem. 
So, as always, when I face a problem, I am trying to amend it.
2100 s/f. with a 2 car garage--I'm too old to clean 3 toilets.

I noticed as we searched today, even in this horrible, tragic housing market with 100s of mansions on the market, there are still MCMansions going up all around.
I just don't get it-'house lust'?? 'No, honey, I am NOT living in something used!!!':scratch


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

the problem stems from people thinking material goods will bring satisfaction, they sometimes do for a short period, but as was mentioned earlier they become a liability, so instead of taking the lesson and moving on the person just does it again. 

England tried the "thinkers only" economy they floundered for years. Here in oil / agriculture production country, there are vast amounts of post secondary grads working retail and fast food, while the skilled work force is making good money, problem there is the young guys tend to have $100,000.00 pickup trucks. 

Here is a bit of painful truth: the average 1st world citizen in poorly educated in actual life, but well indoctrinated in marketers manipulation. 

An interest based economy requires obsolescence and replacement to function, but it doesn't need worthless junk.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Ozarker said:


> ...were kicked out and replaced with ignorance of how government works, they fail on so many fronts and have no skills in political negotiation or the levels of governmental functions...
> congressman has only a high school education and passed a real estate school,
> 
> If I were King and I could make the rules, I'd say that no one could be eligible to go to Washington unless 1. they had a degree, 2. had served in the military for at least 3 years, 3. served at least 5 years at state level governmental positions, appointed or elected or in federal service at a level of GS 12 or above for 5 years. Anyone with that experience would have more of a clue of what to do than someone who had never accomplished any of those requirements and owned a tire shop...


This is the fault of the public school system, the apathy of parents and the communist plot to dumb down the population.

Serving in the military does nothing for civic education, many sh*tbags serve for an enlistment and even 20 years.

Any person whom has had a career in politics and government are responsible for this debacle in which we live. I think a better solution would be that anyone serving an elected office should be required to go back to the private sector for a term before campaigning for another elected post.

Anyone with a knowledge of civics, the Constitution, Common Law heritage and a respect for free enterprise and property rights and a disrespect for socialism and democracy would make a far better "politician" than what we have now.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

JayJay said:


> 'To the OP. We are a consumer based society and if we do not continue to keep up with the Jones', our economy dies.'
> 
> Exactly; and we aren't playing. So, bring in another 10,000,000 Mexicans that will.


No, the economy won't die if people spend less and save more. That leads to future economic growth. Or at least, it used to.

I think it was Dave Hodges who said that the globalists will go to Soviet-style collective farms are America is depopulated. They plan to have the Mexicans work in them.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Before I checked out of the cable paying crowd, I watched a documentary around 2007.
> It was about 'house lust'. Buying to keep up or better the neighbors.
> I think of that now as we search for a little 2 bedroom, one bath with a couple acres in the country.
> No, house lust isn't my problem--not having an income to live on after my husband is gone IS the problem.
> ...


I would love to have a big house if I could afford it. I'd have interior doors I could close to block off wings of the house. Then we could have 10 cats and keep enough of them separated.

We just don't have the income or the savings to go to a bigger house. Or to a house where we could have a huge garden in the back yard.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

I earn a decent living but we settled for a modular home. Actually they are built better than what most of the builders I talked to are building today and at a fraction of the cost! To get the modular we have we would have paid 2.8 times the cost with a builder. With the builder that cost was with 2 x 4 walls, with our modular we have 2 x 6 exterior walls and 2 x 6 roof trusses on 12" (yes one foot) center but only because we have a 6/12 pitch roof.
We put the modular on a basement with 9 foot walls so I could run ducting, electrical, plumbing, etc.. in the ceiling and still have an 8 foot ceiling! This I am doing on my own a little bit at a time, like yesterday I put up an 8 foot long 2 x 4 wall, so it is slowly taking shape. The basement is really all "bonus" house for us, a canning room, a cold storage room in the back corner, etc. Goal is to have cold storage completed by spring so we can stock it up next year from the garden. There is a large storage room that I have already built shelves across a 14 foot wall, this is to help us get our storage stuff organized and save some space.
My point is here that I could have bought a lot more house than what we have, but I recently retired from the military and didn't want to go into significant debt. Our 34 acres of land we bought 11 years ago and had it paid before my retirement.
My rule of thumb was don't borrow more than 2 years salary, we pulled that off without considering my retirement pay into the equation. My retirement pay can pay all the bills with a bit left over. We have enough in savings/short term (5 year or less) investments to pay the mortgage.
We can afford to do a lot more but my kids are out (one in college) or almost out (one in 10th grade) of the house so a mansion isn't what my wife and will need soon, so we bought/built for that day! We will still have room to have them visit and a spare room in the basement is on the agenda, one day anyways!
Being smart with your decisions is what is important, no matter what your pay scale you are in! We built to help us sustain if needed, we are getting pigs this month, 4 piglets! Cows & chickens next spring (cows already purchased, dang have you seen the price of cattle lately, HOLY SH^^ man!).
I drive a 10 year old truck with no intentions of updating any time soon. My wife drives a 9 year old sedan and we will keep that around for a bit too! A tractor is on the agenda soon though, something around 35-40 HP nothing larger than what I need around here, fuel consumption is in my thought process there too!
im rambling now!


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

In the prepper's perspective I waste most of my money. The reason (the justification I currently use :factor10 for it is because these are the last of the good old days for America. The rich nation is dying. We all expect the USD to lose Reserve status resulting in a loss of quality of life and income. I want a few final flings of self-indulgence. I don't have car payments because I don't value them as many people do. I waste money on hobbies.

JayJay has a point. If he didn't have one then the fedgov wouldn't be allowing tons of future citizens to flood the interior of the nation. I know people think it's purely to sway politics to one side, but IMO that's just one of the side results. We are an aging society and have stunted our population growth in favor of more free time and more stuff instead of raising children.

Personally, I'd like to see the consumer based economy die. It's a nasty creation based on corrupted banking practices, imprudent economics and greedy, self-indulgent government/corporate partnerships. 

Americans are spoiled to obesity and stupidity. We fornicate with increasingly lower quality partners. When we don't abort our children, we raise offspring with fewer morals and poorer education and let them grow up mimicking Hollywood and music media. Over the decades we were trained to believe we have no ethnic identity to honor (mutts). We're becoming a more and more useless culture.

America has less and less value to the rest of the world. When the resources are tapped out, we will become what we were before the two great wars turned us into a power house of industry/wealth/military might. We'll be a larger France. France is only relevant in it's storied history. It's a relic, just like we will be. We have no depth of culture/arts/architecture, etc.. Sciences will be picked up by the Asians. Our value will be in natural resources and agriculture. And that might be good enough if the rest of the world is also stagnant.


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