# Advice on tree planting (2012)



## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

I am six weeks away from planting this years trees and would love any and all advice from people who have planted trees from the same species. Last year I had pretty good success with over 70% of my trees surviving through the year. I did have one group of trees do very poorly though so I thought I would seek out advice from anyone who has had good success. Essentially what did you do in planting, where did you plant them, what were the prevailing soil conditions (moisture, soil type, etc), soil amendments, watering schedule, etc.

List of trees I did poorly with last year that I am replanting.
Stark Brothers All in one almond
Stark Brothers SweetHeart Apricot
*note: both of these trees are from the same family so I may just be barking up the wrong tree.

I would really love some advice from anyone who has planted these trees successfully!

New trees I am planting this year that I have little to no experience with.
Hall's Hardy Almond Tree
Utah Sweet Pomegranate
GA 866 Jujube Tree
Sherwood Jujube Tree

I am trying a new type of almond tree just for kicks. So any almond experiences would be great. I like pomegranates but I am not expecting these to do well as I am on the border as far as hardiness zone. I have no clue about the Jujubes but they looked cool so I figured I would give them a try and I am in the middle of their range from a hardiness zone perspective.

Just in case you are wondering these trees are being planted in southern Missouri in a karst topography with both upland rocky soils and lowland clay soils. I have hills and swamps and everything in between so if a trees needs specific soil type I can provide it. The one issue I have is if a very acidic soil is needed the underlying rocks have a tendency to cancel out the acid. Please do not hesitate to suggest exactly what the tree needs.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

To improve your survival rating, I'd suggest switching to a fall planting schedule. Trees just do better when they have a chance to grow roots and get established while the top side is dormant in the winter.

You might want to consider a "Li" jujube. It has a long history of being successful in the South and is a good fruiting variety. But there are over a dozen jujube varieties planted at a nearby agricultural college and all are going well, so the trees don't seem to be too picky. If you've never had one, they are about 1-2" long and oval, crispy like an apple but not quite as juicy, and not quite as sweet as a date. The first time I had one it was kind of a shock. I expected the sweetness but not the crispiness. Fair warning -- they sucker a LOT. Mine was planted November 2010 as a 1 year old tree, and has gone from about 4' to about 7' in the first year and did produce two fruit this summer -- both of which birds pecked a hole in. I don't think they liked it or they would have eaten the whole thing, so I am hoping when it gets bigger I'll have minimal bird losses. The birds do love to sit in the little tree, though. Perhaps they feel safer among the thorns. I think I watered the tree once this past summer when we'd been without rain for over a month. Even as a baby it could take the drought fine; the leaves are thick and waxy.

There are hardy pomegrantes.  I used to have one, but I took it out since I just don't like pomegrantes that much. Overall, pomegranates are tough shrubs. You probably won't have any trouble with it.

Almonds and apricots are trees that need a lot of attention. For the almonds, I would look up what your local extension office says to do for peaches, and follow that care routine. Apricots... I have no idea. Without any other guidance, I'd treat it like a plum.

I have similar soil to yours except mine is very acid. Overall, I use no soil amendments and don't water unless the weather is extreme or if the tree is new and planted off-season (i.e. spring/summer). Partially because I have no water source in my orchard and have to carry buckets, but mostly because I'd rather the tree make roots to get it's own water. If I were a commercial producer, I would probably prioritize getting lots of fruit faster than a hardy low-care tree. I do mulch to the drip line and keep that clear, prune carefully and also keep up a spray program for the Malus and Prunus species -- just horticultural oil, sulpher and streptomycin. Everything else doesn't need any attention from me.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

AlabamaGal said:


> To improve your survival rating, I'd suggest switching to a fall planting schedule. Trees just do better when they have a chance to grow roots and get established while the top side is dormant in the winter.


I have read this as well but I have not talked with anyone who does fall planting. What is your success rate?



> You might want to consider a "Li" jujube.


I went with the GA and Sherwood due to their being compatible for cross pollination but produce fruit at different times so as to stretch out my season. If they are unsuccessful I will consider the Li.



> If you've never had one, they are about 1-2" long and oval, crispy like an apple but not quite as juicy, and not quite as sweet as a date. The first time I had one it was kind of a shock. I expected the sweetness but not the crispiness.


Very cool!



> Fair warning -- they sucker a LOT.


Thank you for the warning. I will plant them in a remote area of my farm where if they start being a pain I can just mow around them on a yearly basis.



> Mine was planted November 2010 as a 1 year old tree, and has gone from about 4' to about 7' in the first year and did produce two fruit this summer


Great news! I love plants that are vigorous growers.



> There are hardy pomegrantes. I used to have one, but I took it out since I just don't like pomegrantes that much. Overall, pomegranates are tough shrubs. You probably won't have any trouble with it.


My reading indicated that worst case if they get established and then frozen out they will just come back with a vengeance.



> Almonds and apricots are trees that need a lot of attention. For the almonds, I would look up what your local extension office says to do for peaches, and follow that care routine. Apricots... I have no idea. Without any other guidance, I'd treat it like a plum.


My peaches did quite well so I am not sure why the almonds and apricots failed.



> I have similar soil to yours except mine is very acid. Overall, I use no soil amendments and don't water unless the weather is extreme or if the tree is new and planted off-season (i.e. spring/summer). Partially because I have no water source in my orchard and have to carry buckets, but mostly because I'd rather the tree make roots to get it's own water.


Interesting. My plan has been to try a lot of different trees and end up with the ones that do well by themselves (AKA little ongoing care). But I am not against doing a lot of work upfront to increase their chance of survival. And I am very interested in the Apricots because the breed I planted produce an apricot that after you eat the fruit you crack the nut inside and it is an almond.



> I do mulch to the drip line and keep that clear,


What are you mulching with? I have been concerned about the type of mulch so that I don't get field mice using it and then eating my bark.

Thank you for your excellent and lengthy response!


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

SlobberToofTigger said:


> I have read this as well but I have not talked with anyone who does fall planting. What is your success rate?


So far 100% on survival since I went to fall/winter only planting, which is not to say I haven't regretted some of the things I've planted.  My apples are not doing well but aren't dead; it's been a tough year. If we get a good season I think they will bounce back.



> I went with the GA and Sherwood due to their being compatible for cross pollination but produce fruit at different times so as to stretch out my season. If they are unsuccessful I will consider the Li.


Li is self-fruitful. Most jujubes are. It's an Asian variety that is good for both fresh and drying use. I'm not sure about GA and Sherwood, but if they are a modern American variety they are probably bred for fresh eating. (Although you could certainly still dry them.)



> My peaches did quite well so I am not sure why the almonds and apricots failed.


I have always heard they just don't so well in the South, but I've never heard a good reason why. Humidity perhaps? Or maybe it's just because we don't have that mediterranean climate they love?



> What are you mulching with? I have been concerned about the type of mulch so that I don't get field mice using it and then eating my bark.


I mulch with whatever is handy and free. This year it's pine straw from a neighbor; last year was leaf compost. If you keep the mulch back from the trunk a few inches it should deter rodent gnawing from habit or to trim teeth if not from hunger.

I used hardware cloth to make tall collars around my young trees since I have a huge rabbit problem, plus groundhogs and other larger critters. (Mice and rats, too, but not many thanks to the owls and hawks.) It would be a rare winter when it got so long and cold they succumbed to eating bark, but I had the leftover bits of chickenwire, so why not? I firmly staked them down into the soil to kep critters from pushing them around or sliding them up.

Regarding easy care orchards... My land is not situated so I could do a typical permaculture layout, but I do apply some of the principles. I have a "near" and a "far" orchard. The near orchard is the Prunus and Malus spp. that need the pruning and spraying and watching for problems, all grouped together since they get the same care. The far orchard has the black walnuts, carpathian walnuts, pecans, asian persimmons, asian pears, paw paws and jujube that need almost no care. The blackberies, blueberries and strawberries are also farther away, and my edible landscaping is a mixed bag but mostly lower care plants. I still have some hedges to put in, maybe next fall -- perhaps more hazelnuts and tea camelia and elderberry?

I have reluctantly forbidden myself from planting things that are just not likely to prosper here, however much I want them. Like currants. And lignonberries.

Speaking of odd fruit -- have you considered paw paws? They are native and trouble-free and would love to shore up a creek bank for you or would work well in a partly shady spot where you want a tree. They taste like a cross between a banana and a pineapple to me, with the consistency of a ripe banana.

Chestnuts might be a good nut tree for you if the almonds don't work out. They don't take up the massive amount of space that walnuts and pecans do.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

AlabamaGal said:


> So far 100% on survival since I went to fall/winter only planting, which is not to say I haven't regretted some of the things I've planted.


Good to hear! I might try it this fall.



> My apples are not doing well but aren't dead; it's been a tough year. If we get a good season I think they will bounce back.


 A number of mine are planted where they get 20 feet of water over them for a few days every few years. Beside them bending slightly down river they are doing very well. Grin.



> Li is self-fruitful. Most jujubes are.


I was told these are as well but that they will produce way more if they have another variety. I want maximum production for the wildlife so two varieties it is.



> I mulch with whatever is handy and free. This year it's pine straw from a neighbor;


Since I moved from SC I have not really thought of pine straw. But now that you mention it I do have some stands of pine that I could gather the straw from. Good idea.



> I used hardware cloth to make tall collars around my young trees since I have a huge rabbit problem, plus groundhogs and other larger critters. (Mice and rats, too, but not many thanks to the owls and hawks.) It would be a rare winter when it got so long and cold they succumbed to eating bark, but I had the leftover bits of chickenwire, so why not? I firmly staked them down into the soil to kep critters from pushing them around or sliding them up.


I like it. I already build small fences around all my trees with woven wire but a small collar fence down at ground level makes good sense.



> Regarding easy care orchards... My land is not situated so I could do a typical permaculture layout, but I do apply some of the principles.


Interesting you mention permaculture. I have read both volumes of Edible Forrest Gardens with that in mind. What I discovered is that I am already there I only need to make some minor adjustments to get maximum output. What I am doing now is filling some of the voids (fields) with some tree cover and figured it might as well be edible.



> Speaking of odd fruit -- have you considered paw paws?


 I have about 60 acers covered in them... Grin. 


> They are native and trouble-free and would love to shore up a creek bank for you


 Strangely enough I have been using black berries for this. I have a breed that creates huge hedges (imagine 2 or 3 18 wheelers parked side to side) that I use to slow the river when it breaches its banks. So far it has reduced the erosion considerably.



> Chestnuts might be a good nut tree for you if the almonds don't work out. They don't take up the massive amount of space that walnuts and pecans do.


I planted two varieties of them last year and they have survived so far. I did not get fences around them so I am hoping that the goats have not eaten them.

ThanX for some really good ideas!


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm not familiar with the trees in question but in general, fall planting is almost always preferable. As Alabama said; the tree will be able to gets it's roots set while not having to worry about foliage production.


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## SlobberToofTigger (Dec 27, 2011)

UncleJoe said:


> I'm not familiar with the trees in question but in general, fall planting is almost always preferable. As Alabama said; the tree will be able to gets it's roots set while not having to worry about foliage production.


It seems the answer is really less black and white than one might like based on what you are planting and where you are.

Here are two articles that both agree and contradict each other:
http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/falltreeplanting.html
http://www.aces.edu/dept/extcomm/specialty/trees_fall01.html

The folks in Alabama (zones 7a-8b) are gung-ho over fall planting.
The folks in Indiana (Zones 5a-6a) are somewhat cautious depending on what you are planting.

I am closer to Indiana in hardiness zones then Alabama so it looks like I need to be very careful in what I plant in the fall or I may not have as good a results as AG. I believe that I am going to have to go to the local Dept of Conservation nursery (I just figured out there is one about 30 miles away) to get a local answer on what I should or should not plant in the fall.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

SlobberToofTigger said:


> I am closer to Indiana in hardiness zones then Alabama so it looks like I need to be very careful in what I plant in the fall or I may not have as good a results as AG. I believe that I am going to have to go to the local Dept of Conservation nursery (I just figured out there is one about 30 miles away) to get a local answer on what I should or should not plant in the fall.


I thought you were warmer than that. I agree that your local resources are probably the best bet for specifics.


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