# Rant warning : Form versus Function.



## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

:ranton:

We have a lot of visitors staying with us, all ages, all nationalities and backgrounds. Most of these people have not one clue about being self reliant or making do with what you have. Some are even horrified by it, “Oh my god, you’re not going to eat that! You just pulled it out of the ground!” 
But the latest guests have me pulling my hair out! They are intelligent hardworking and seem quite knowledgeable (lots of info but no experience ) but they are so much more concerned with the way something looks rather than function. 
I love tidy and neat (yep things have to match and straight lines have to be STRAIGHT) BUT creating a cute little entrance to the vege patch is soooo much more important than weeding the carrots and seed bed. How the hell do they work out their priorities. 
We had a couple here over Christmas who would spend hours raking leaves from around the outdoor dining table but hid (yep hid, behind a gate post, I was sooo tempted to sneak up to them from behind and scare the daylights outa ‘em, lol) when I needed a hand in the vege garden... WTF are these people thinking, they know this is a farm, they know we grow all our own food and make a pretty big percent of other needs right here but they just can’t cope with the reality. It’s not pretty enough!
They turn up with cute little sandals and beach clothes and get all shitty when we tell ‘em they need to protect themselves from the sun, animals and anything else they may encounter. They refuse to wear sturdy farm clothes, they won’t look nice (this ain’t just the girls, the boys are just as bad! Had one young man here who wouldn’t work in the vege garden because it’ll ruin his French manicure, made me feel a little nauseous) 
I like to look nice, I like my home to look nice and I love my garden (had an open display garden for 15 years) but when there’s a job that needs doing you just need to get it done......
Heaven help them if they ever have to live a bit rough.
:rantoff:

That feels better!


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

I should add that I'm really looking for feedback on this one. How much of your time/money/thought do you spend on form and when do you put it before function while prepping?
LOL just reread the above post....and edited it.... Sitting in the attic and I think I'm getting heat stroke....


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## 8thDayStranger (Jan 30, 2013)

Livin ain't always clean and pretty. I've worked with people who were afraid to get a little grease on their pants and I've told every one of them to man up and get the job done. I've had folks freak out when they found a bad spot on a bell pepper or potato and refuse to use it. I feel your pain. 

I like my house and yard to be as neat as possible (it's not always but guess what. We live here not just stop by and look) and that sometimes takes blood sweat and dirt to happen.


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## boomer (Jul 13, 2011)

We live on a farm and it is messy. Way too little time in a very short growing season to be particularly concerned with appearances particularly during planting and harvest. It gets all cleaned up after seeding and after harvest. We often get people who want to freecation here during the growing season and they are frequently offended by the pace. They tend to bring cameras and sun tan lotion and complain about the bugs and the lack of pavement.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

Wellrounded said:


> :ranton:
> 
> I love tidy and neat (yep things have to match and straight lines have to be STRAIGHT) BUT creating a cute little entrance to the vege patch is soooo much more important than weeding the carrots and seed bed. How the hell do they work out their priorities.


Yup.....
I'm definitely a function over form sort of person. Hell, I've even been called downright FUGLY.... but I work!!!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Function over form for sure.
I totally hear you on people that seem disconected from the earth, which is dirt btw being focused on the most irrelevant of things.

Over the years I have more and more grown to see the beauty in things that others might not. An earth worm is beautiful for instance, if you look at it the right way, as is a worn out old table that someone put together with their own two hands.
I have found a Japanese term "Wabi Sabi" to be helpful for myself. It is an idea of flawed beauty that my great grandfather seemed to understand perfectly. The definition I like most is more or less
Nothing Lasts
Nothing is Finished
Nothing is Perfect

So when someone is missing the point and talking about raking leaves or trimming the grass around the edges of the yard I just say "Wabi-Sabi" Then I let the cows in and watch them squirm.


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

HA! Ruin my french manicure. :lolsmash: 
I absolutely miss the smell of fresh dirt and cut grass. Miss getting dirt under my finger nails. Definately more about function then form. Looks can be decieving. Had a conversation with my wife the other day about growing up at my folks place. Told her that my Dad's apple tree had worms in it but the apples were still good if you cut around the worm. She damn near puked. Ahh what people would do if they never could simply go to their grocery store and pick up their waxed pesticide covered apples.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

zracer7 said:


> Ahh what people would do if they never could simply go to their grocery store and pick up their waxed pesticide covered apples.


Ain't that the truth.

And what's the problem with a worm in the apple? They really don't eat much.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

Form...? What's that?

Altho, I suppose my nice collection of raised bed gardens, made from leftover deck boards, cement blocks, plastic wading pools, & old barrels might be considered, um....eclectic...? 

(And you really know you're a farmer when you have animal sh!t under your fingernails, not just dirt.  )


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

We have wild raspberry's growing in the woods around us. I picked a hand full and took them to the wife.

"You want some raspberries?"

_"Where did you get those?"_

"Outside. I just picked them"

_"They are dirty!"_

"No they are not see?"

_"Yes they are!"_

"OK. I'll wash them and &#8230;"

_"NO! You got them from OUTSIDE!"_

You reckon 40 years ago I should have paid more attention to other things then how her hips wiggled in that short, white, waitress uniform?


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> We have wild raspberry's growing in the woods around us. I picked a hand full and took them to the wife.
> 
> "You want some raspberries?"
> 
> ...


ooooooooOOOOOOOOoooooooooo........

You don't let 'er read this forum, do ya'?


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Can't ya just ask them ta help repack some wheel bearings?


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Are you saying my apples arent what they ought a be?!??!


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## Gravlore (Dec 10, 2011)

Function never lets me down. I have been accused of over building some strange looking things. Strange is city speak for ugly. Strange in the country is 'hmm maybe I should try that'.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Our visitors bettered their efforts today, I went to get something from the spice cupboard to find it rearranged. No big deal! But then I noticed dried apricots in a spice jar in this cupboard..... So decided to have a bit better look around. My storage jars have now had their contents rearranged so they look pretty. Might take me a while to find everything. We've asked them to move on. Well at least she put the apricots in a cinnamon jar and not a chilli jar, lol.


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## cqp33 (Apr 2, 2012)

Function, hmmm! I grew up in the city (20 miles south of Detroit) and moved to East TN with my grandparents in my teenage years! I spent my summers and vacations there because I always loved it there. When I moved there I learned about function verses what looked good! I really feel that the 2 years I lived there before joining the Navy (19 1/2 years now) was the most important education I have ever received! It was about making things work, hay balers, tractors and anything that needed to "work". My grandfather taught me the value of an honest days work in the garden, chopping wood for a cast iron, pot belly stove (no wood splitter) and working on my own vehicles! I thank my grandfather for that education every day of my life, too bad he is no longer with us but I thanked him before his passing!


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## Foreverautumn (Oct 25, 2010)

It's easy to over-romanticize farm living. Both my parents grew up on a farm, and I often stayed at my grandparents' farm over the summer when I was growing up. I'll be the first to admit that farm life is *NOT* for me. But I'll tell you what, though - living on a farm, even if just over the summer, has given me a real appreciation for farmers and ranchers.


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## LilRedHen (Aug 28, 2011)

I like the rows in my garden straight, but a crooked row is fine if it produces veggies. I don't particularly like feeding cattle in the mud, but I do it anyway and I really don't like getting calf scours on my shoes or clothes, but sometimes it is necessary. My house goes to he__ in a handbasket during canning season, since I do all the gardening, canning, cooking, lawn mowing with a push mower, and caring for the Rooster who is pretty much an invalid now. I do the have to's first and the fixin' up if I feel like it. Anyone who doesn't like the way I live can leave. I wear men's clothes, men's high top work shoes and a baseball cap 99% of the time. I have a closet full of nice clothes & shoes from a previous office life, but they are not appropriate to shovel manure.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

LilRedHen, like your style.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

LilRedHen said:


> I like the rows in my garden straight, but a crooked row is fine if it produces veggies. I don't particularly like feeding cattle in the mud, but I do it anyway and I really don't like getting calf scours on my shoes or clothes, but sometimes it is necessary. My house goes to he__ in a handbasket during canning season, since I do all the gardening, canning, cooking, lawn mowing with a push mower, and caring for the Rooster who is pretty much an invalid now. I do the have to's first and the fixin' up if I feel like it. Anyone who doesn't like the way I live can leave. I wear men's clothes, men's high top work shoes and a baseball cap 99% of the time. I have a closet full of nice clothes & shoes from a previous office life, but they are not appropriate to shovel manure.


And that right there tells me you're goint to be one of the survivors after SHTF. Bravo!!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Wellrounded said:


> :ranton:
> 
> We have a lot of visitors staying with us, all ages, all nationalities and backgrounds. Most of these people have not one clue about being self reliant or making do with what you have. Some are even horrified by it, "Oh my god, you're not going to eat that! You just pulled it out of the ground!"
> But the latest guests have me pulling my hair out! They are intelligent hardworking and seem quite knowledgeable (lots of info but no experience ) but they are so much more concerned with the way something looks rather than function.
> ...


Damn man, you need to get a set of NEW friends!!!
Sorry about the 'word', but you must have waaaaay more patience than I.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Damn man, you need to get a set of NEW friends!!!
> Sorry about the 'word', but you must have waaaaay more patience than I.


Hahahaha, they ain't friends, but people who come here to learn about the lifestyle and FAIL!!!! They just can't bridge the gap from consumer to producer!!!!! I don't have any patience, hence the Rant, lol. My SO has sooooo much more tolerance, me ALMOST NONE! I'm the kinda girl that thinks coming home with the bacon means a pig over your left shoulder and a bag of salt in your off hand! (please note here that the women on this farm are just as likely to 'come home with the bacon' as the men and we remember the SALT! LOL)
I would love to have a heap of visitors to the farm who genuinely wanted to learn about what we do but we seem to attract those that think self reliance is about crocheting bonnets and sitting around thanking the powers that be for their generosity! (yep I crochet and knit and tan and sew but that's in winter when I have time!)


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

Sounds like a good place for a holiday to me Wellrounded


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

UncleJoe said:


> Ain't that the truth.
> 
> And what's the problem with a worm in the apple? They really don't eat much.


Don't they realize that worms are protein? We pick apples and cherries off of old farmstead orchards were the buildings have been long gone and we've eaten plenty of worms and it's never hurt us but what do these pristine eaters think they are getting when they eat pesticide covered fruits and vegetables? Oh well, I guess it does prune out the dumb ones, it just PO's me that my taxes are raised to pay their medical bills for them being so stupid.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Not to be rude or insulting but could it be that it is you and not the people who visit that are the problem? I mean my home is my sanctuary my retreat from all the insanity, stupidity and madness. I have to put up with, tolerate and be respectful of others when I leave my home, regardless of how stupid inbred, liberal and worthless they may be. But not in my home. I do not let people in my home that I do not know, like and respect. They in turn respect me and understand that I am supreme lord and master of my domain. It is my way or the highway. No if and or buts about it. It is not open for debate or discussion.
Now it does appear that you have your home function as some kind of learning experience for others who are not necessarily your friends. Not sure if they are paying a fee or not. If not I'd quit or immediately 86 anyone who did not comply with the rules. IMHO that does not change the rules much it simply means that since you can not take it as a given that people will respect you, your home or what how you are teaching, have them sign a contract stating that they will comply with all directions given them or they will leave the property immediately. That this is your *HOME*. Anyone messing with it rearranging or going through your private property without explicit prior consent from you can expect to get their freaking ripped off and beaten with it.

That rearranging the spice cabinet bit REALLY torqued me. Put me right in the blood and guts mode. Anyway best of luck. Me I couldn't wouldn't put up with it.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Not to be rude or insulting but could it be that it is you and not the people who visit that are the problem? I mean my home is my sanctuary my retreat from all the insanity, stupidity and madness. I have to put up with, tolerate and be respectful of others when I leave my home, regardless of how stupid inbred, liberal and worthless they may be. But not in my home. I do not let people in my home that I do not know, like and respect. They in turn respect me and understand that I am supreme lord and master of my domain. It is my way or the highway. No if and or buts about it. It is not open for debate or discussion.
> Now it does appear that you have your home function as some kind of learning experience for others who are not necessarily your friends. Not sure if they are paying a fee or not. If not I'd quit or immediately 86 anyone who did not comply with the rules. IMHO that does not change the rules much it simply means that since you can not take it as a given that people will respect you, your home or what how you are teaching, have them sign a contract stating that they will comply with all directions given them or they will leave the property immediately. That this is your *HOME*. Anyone messing with it rearranging or going through your private property without explicit prior consent from you can expect to get their freaking ripped off and beaten with it.
> 
> That rearranging the spice cabinet bit REALLY torqued me. Put me right in the blood and guts mode. Anyway best of luck. Me I couldn't wouldn't put up with it.


lol a contract?.....what are you going to do if the break it? sue them?.:teehee:

I find it hard to believe that people could behave like that in someone elses castle.....Im always on my best behaviour when on someone elses property and always show respect. And I expect the same of people on my property.


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

Wellrounded said:


> Hahahaha, they ain't friends, but people who come here to learn about the lifestyle and FAIL!!!! They just can't bridge the gap from consumer to producer!!!!! I don't have any patience, hence the Rant, lol. My SO has sooooo much more tolerance, me ALMOST NONE! I'm the kinda girl that thinks coming home with the bacon means a pig over your left shoulder and a bag of salt in your off hand! (please note here that the women on this farm are just as likely to 'come home with the bacon' as the men and we remember the SALT! LOL)
> I would love to have a heap of visitors to the farm who genuinely wanted to learn about what we do but we seem to attract those that think self reliance is about crocheting bonnets and sitting around thanking the powers that be for their generosity! (yep I crochet and knit and tan and sew but that's in winter when I have time!)


 How do these people find you? Is there a website or brochure that tells them what to expect during their stay? It sounds like you are having a run of looky-Lou's that just want a charming B&B experience rather than a serious introduction to homesteading.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

eddy_dvyvan said:


> lol a contract?.....what are you going to do if the break it? sue them?.:teehee:
> 
> I find it hard to believe that people could behave like that in someone elses castle.....Im always on my best behaviour when on someone elses property and always show respect. And I expect the same of people on my property.


Can you read? As I said they are required to leave the property, end of training course no refund. At that point they are trespassers if they do not leave shot em.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I understand more of where wellrounded is coming from than a lot of people on here it seems. Everything isn't all so black and white, people can be trying to help and the solutions aren't always so simple. Most people don't run their lives with contracts and formalized business arrangements, that might be a way to keep the majority of people away though.
Also if you live in a rural area and are taking people into your place you have to be careful of many things. Creating a bunch of enemies by telling people off and kicking them out has caused many problems for people in the past, think about it.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

I sure do wish people like that would visit me. I have plenty of thigns that need tiddying up here. 

All my visitors do is mess up. Last time they visited and was asked to work, or pick up after themselves we were told 'we like to work' so we can clean it up. The nerve!


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> Creating a bunch of enemies by telling people off and kicking them out has caused many problems for people in the past, think about it.


Anyone coming onto my property is met with a sign that says in part


> All persons entering this property must hold contract or invitation with owner or tenant granting ingress with indemnity. By proceeding beyond this point without said contract or invitation you confirm your intent and purpose is to criminally trespass, extort, harass, oppress, threaten, intimidate, injure, mutilate molest, or otherwise jeopardize the rights, safety and life of the owner, tenants and lawful guests.
> 
> Any and all federal, state, county, city, municipal or otherwise governmental agent, official or person(s) without the above mentioned contract or invitation "MUST" present a properly prepared warrant as prescribed by constitutional amendment IV and XIV. Or be dealt with as a hostile intruder described above. Alleged zoning or code non-compliance violations do not establish constitutional reasons for entering this property.


So those that enter without an invitation, contract or lawful warrant are subject to being shot. Anyone who I invite who does not leave when instructed to do so is subject to being shot. They know that coming in.

No Problem

Had a Jehovah Witness call the police on me because I greeted them butt naked swinging free with an AR and told them to get the F off of my property in the most vile, vulgar, offensive language I could muster (which is pretty bad). The police called me from my front gate and asked I come down there. I did, explained what happened, pointed out my no trespass sign (above). The Jehovah Witness confirmed she did not have an invitation onto my property. The sheriff explained to her I would have been within my rights to shoot her and that I could have her charged with trespass. He asked if I wanted to file charges. The bitch would not shut her pie hole. She went to jail. CPS picked up her kids.

No Problem.

Apparently Jehovah Witness all hate me now and none will come onto my property. All my neighbors think it is hilarious.

No Problem.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

hahaha I wish I lived in your state/country.

In australia you have no right to point/threaten anyone with a gun. You have no right to physically remove anyone from your property. Putting a sign like that up would have the pc cops at your door demanding it be taken down as its threatening.

Oh and if your naked in your backyard and someone looks over YOUR fence you will be charged with indecent exposure
Your Lucky Longrider


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Anyone coming onto my property is met with a sign that says in part
> 
> So those that enter without an invitation, contract or lawful warrant are subject to being shot. Anyone who I invite who does not leave when instructed to do so is subject to being shot. They know that coming in.
> 
> ...


Butt naked??? This was your own property, right?


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

ksmama10 said:


> Butt naked???


No he had his rifle:teehee:


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

eddy_dvyvan said:


> No he had his rifle:teehee:


Oh I forgot, OP is in Texas, where guns are not mere accessories, but part of the wardrobe. Silly me:teehee:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

LongRider
I absolutely believe in property rights but shooting someone who is just coming up to talk is not going to happen, ethically not legally. Even threatening an unarmed woman with a gun under those circumstance would be over the line for me.

I don't like being preached to so I explained my position to a local Jehovah's witness, that I respect their position but that I had my own views. Turns out a guy a know and helped out before belongs to their church and I had no idea. He made sure they wouldn't bother us, it's been years. 
Since then I have gotten baked goods and some free and almost free help from some of them 
They have helped some people with storing food and such around here.

You can keep your methods and I will keep mine.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

ksmama10 said:


> Butt naked??? This was your own property, right?


Of course. 100 miles from the nearest city, 20 miles from the nearest town. Two miles up a dirt road. MY HOME where no one belongs uninvited and where everyone plays by my rules or leaves.



ksmama10 said:


> Oh I forgot, OP is in Texas, where guns are not mere accessories, but part of the wardrobe. Silly me:teehee:


No I live in Washington our gun laws are far better than Texas we are farther west.



cowboyhermit said:


> LongRider
> I absolutely believe in property rights but shooting someone who is just coming up to talk is not going to happen, ethically not legally. Even threatening an unarmed woman with a gun under those circumstance would be over the line for me.
> 
> I don't like being preached to so I explained my position to a local Jehovah's witness, that I respect their position but that I had my own views. Turns out a guy a know and helped out before belongs to their church and I had no idea. He made sure they wouldn't bother us, it's been years.
> ...


You are free to feel that way. The skank drove up a two mile dirt road and down 150 yards of heavily wooded clearly posted driveway to come pounding on my door *UNINVITED*.

I ALWAYS answer my door armed when unannounced creeps invade my property. You may assume that the home invaders will let you get your gun after you have opened your door to them, or that home invaders do not use women to get you to open the door. I don't.

I don't need free cookies, help or handouts. I do need to be left alone. That is why I live in the sticks.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

eddy_dvyvan said:


> hahaha I wish I lived in your state/country.
> 
> In australia you have no right to point/threaten anyone with a gun. You have no right to physically remove anyone from your property. Putting a sign like that up would have the pc cops at your door demanding it be taken down as its threatening.
> 
> ...


Damn shame seems like Australia has gone to hell in a hand basket. Know lots of good folks from there maybe that is why they moved here. Sadly looks like we are headed in the same direction if people do not get their heads out of their butts PDQ.

Back on topic all I have tried to say is that it is wellrounded's home his turf he should run it however he sees fit and if folks don't like they can get the hell off of his property


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I never said there was anything wrong with answering the door with a gun.
What I don't need is a bunch of people talking about my place "In the sticks" and being the object of negative attention, I treat people with respect and usually get it in return. I know someone around here who had the recluse attitude, bunch of kids just waited till they saw him leave and trashed the whole place. 

I am a realist and I know that if I don't want people knocking on my door I have fence around my property, animals, and a GATE. Nobody has ever drove up my lane unwanted, I just close the gate. Much less stressful for all involved and less enemies.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

A little bit more info about our situation. No our guests don't pay to stay here, it's a labour exchange. We feed and house them and they work a certain number of hours per week. Why do we do this? Both my partner and I are disabled, not badly but enough that we have quite a bit of down time. We don't like hand outs and love our lifestyle so have 'guests' come here to help us with the jobs we can't manage. Without this help we would find life here difficult and have to change/limit much of what we do. The gubment won't help and frankly we don't want that kind of help. By having these people here we can manage our own care in a way we see fit. 

We have detailed information available to any one coming here and require them to read it and agree to our terms, but most simply don't understand this lifestyle. I can understand that it's not the norm and we are pretty understanding of most peoples difficulties. If they don't work with us they get a quick trip to the nearest train station. 
My OP was about those that just can't get their head around the difference between getting something working and making it look pretty. 
We live in a home made of cobbled together second hand stuff, our property is messy but everything works. We OWN everything here and can live on next to nothing. That's where our priorities lie, not owing anyone anything and being able to look after ourselves. I'm sick of others looking down their noses at us because we'd rather own our knocked about car than owe the bank and drive a nice new shiny one! I would love to have everything here finished and be able to get on with the tidying up and beautifying but that's a ways down the track.
Our guests are usually international as we don't want locals to know what we are doing here, we like our privacy and don't need the tension/problems that arise when you aren't fitting other peoples expected 'normal'.
I do agree with you LongRider that some of our problems are of our own making, we don't need to have strangers in our home, we choose to have them here to get more done. I do expect people to have some manners though and the absence of them is always annoying and frustrating. Especially when they can be quite nice in a lot of ways but don't understand some boundaries. Sometimes we accept a level of rudeness because we just have to get some jobs finished and we can show them the door when it's done.
Most of the people we have here are fantastic and some have become members of the family, returning from lands afar every year or two. We've often talked about stopping this arrangement but we know the benefits outweigh the trials at the end of the day. We rewrite our guide books/web site every time we have problems and have become quite choosy about the people we invite here, they must have good references and respond to questions etc before they arrive. 
I could tell you about the wonderful folk that have helped us above and beyond what was expected of them and of the great girls that gave me the most amazing birthday party you could have. We have more good tales than bad but it's the bad ones that create the desire to have a good old whinge/rant, .


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

My husband has been talking about AS since I have known him 45 years ago. pm me. Please. He might get a great gift. He was raised on a farm but now we live in th burbs.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Wellrounded said:


> A little bit more info about our situation.


Impressive and admirable, to bad those you could not enter into some kind of partnership with those you bonded with. Provide all parties with a bit more stability and vested interest.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

LongRider said:


> Impressive and admirable, to bad those you could not enter into some kind of partnership with those you bonded with. Provide all parties with a bit more stability and vested interest.


One of our ex visitors is working toward citizenship and if the world changed for the worst she'd be here in a flash if she could make it. And welcome too, young smart, good worker and great at managing people, she understood us and the farm. Most young people we meet are far too busy chasing the opposite sex or getting plastered on the weekends to seriously consider this kind of life. Older people either love the place but struggle to understand the work involved or hate it here. 
We have a community of sorts that will come here if things get bad, friends and family etc but they have their own lives at the moment and we wouldn't want them to drop everything just to help us. We do barter with them, exchange labour or something needed for farm produce, I won't give anyone anything for free.


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## eddy_dvyvan (May 8, 2012)

"I won't give anyone anything for free. "
I was thinking that exact same line the other night in another thread.

Last month i had a local teenager come to the door asking for donations so he could go on some music trip (playing not listening) overseas. I told him no but if he wants he can mow my lawn and ill give him $50. He said a few choice words then stormed off. Last week he came back and asked to do my lawns for $50.......I told him sure but your only getting $40 now for not taking the oportunity when you had the chance.

 lawns got done, he got some cash

And it gave him an idea now hes doing the same for the entire street hehe


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

SouthCentralUS said:


> My husband has been talking about AS since I have known him 45 years ago. pm me. Please. He might get a great gift. He was raised on a farm but now we live in th burbs.


What does AS mean?


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