# Applying brakes in snow



## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

Ok so my van does great in the snow but when I brake it will slide off in a heart beat. It has new tires new brakes and anti lock . I went from a4x4 to this and of coarse it way diff but is it normal or is there something I could do . It's a dumb ? I know but I'm at a loss it's causing me to lose work days


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

You say new tires, but are they true snow tires? Is the tire pressure even all around? How about studs?


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

A few years ago, I got new tires on my van. They were highway tires that got great mileage. They were the worst thing you could possibly have on snow, or even wet grass. No traction what-so-ever. The weight in y van made it have traction to go forward in the snow, but steering was impossible. It just went where it wanted to. I got rid of them and went for the less mileage but good traction. Then it did great


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

I've got snow tires on back and just road tires on front . I almost won't snow tires ( big lug like back ) on front so I could rotate all tires but was talked out of it


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

How to stop in snow.

Drive slower. Slow down sooner, coast to a stop while lightly applying the brakes to stop.

Put snow tires on the drive axle.

OR my wife's method. Drive like a bat out of _ _ _ _ regardless of the weather conditions, stand on the brakes at the last possible second and then call the insurance company.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

If any of your brakes drag, your car will go out of control as soon as you take your foot off of the accelerator. I have a ton of personal experience with this.

If any of your brakes apply unevenly it will throw the car sideways on snow and ice.

If there is an alignment problem it will go sideways.

If none of these are a problem then it could be weight distribution, front to rear and side to side.

Then I would look at the tires.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

Hmmm it does need alinement that's why I put front tires on cool thanks


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

TheLazyL said:


> How to stop in snow.
> 
> Drive slower. Slow down sooner, coast to a stop while lightly applying the brakes to stop.
> 
> ...


Sir, you crack me up..At least 3 times a week..Thank You!

On my van, My mechanic pulled the fuse that works the antilock breaks. They are just regular breaks and work great. I do hate antilock breaks.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Tires come in different hardness grades of rubber. The harder rubber gets longer life (more miles before wearing out) but does not hold the road well on snow or ice. Softer rubber grips better in snow and ice but you won't get as many miles out of them. My favorite winter tire was a snow tire retread using soft rubber and with sawdust embedded in the tread. I had them studded when purchasing them. They only lasted three years (running them about 6 months per year - we have long winters) but they gripped the road better than anything used before or after. Naturally since they were great tires the company quit making them. 

Is your van front or rear wheel drive? Automatic or manual transmission? Does the antilock system work? Do both front and rear brakes work? (Don't laugh, I once had a customer whose rear brakes did not work ... at all! They didn't know until winter hit and the vehicle wouldn't stop on snow or ice.) Do the roads have a lot of crown or slope to them (especially if you have this problem at the same place each time).

If there are no mechanical problems and the road is relatively level you may have to just slow down.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

I do drive safe and slow they just lock up and slide . I live in the hills and hollers so going down a steep hill is a real treat I'll go down some hills slower then I could walk it . I think based on all the help that one side grabs and very pos there's no rear brakes


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

moondancer said:


> Hmmm it does need alinement that's why I put front tires on cool thanks


Fix the alignment first. That can be a problem even on dry pavement. It will also cause your tires to wear faster.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

moondancer said:


> I've got snow tires on back and just road tires on front .


Well that's just not a good idea right there. Most of your braking is from the front tires. Turning has a fair bit to do with your front tires. Snows on all four or stay at home before you kill someone or yourself.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If you don't have to travel for long distances at hiway speeds deflate your tires some, 35PSI tires can run at 20 psi in winter/ icy conditions, Antilock needs a certain minimum speed to function. your new brakes need to be bedded in ( a few medium speed firm stops to transfer a bit of lining material onto the steel) before they can work properly, but the new "expert procedure is to cut the rotors and drums and add new pads or shoes and turn the vehicle loose.
And you don't need big lugged mud and snow tires on the steering, you need sniped soft rubber WINTER tires. mud and snow tires tend to suck on packed slippery snow and are only good for powdery conditions which very few vehicles see. Another handy tip is to shift your automatic transmission to neutral when nearly stopped so that the engine is not pushing against the brakes. 
the park brake can also be used very gently to tighten the rear brakes to provide more rear brake bias when in slippery conditions. But be careful with the park brake and don't forget to release it when you hit the good road.


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

You did mention new brakes but want to throw this out there.

If you're on a dry road and apply the brakes, does the vehicle want to pull to one side or the other? Loosen or remove your grip on the steering and see if it pulls to one side. You may have a brake locking up or pulling harder than the other side.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

No it does fine except on snow and of coarse ice


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

My first time driving on icy roads was during a snow fall up the mountain before Christmas. I was driving the jeep home from the shop with my folks and Roo in the suv behind me about a half mile. I started to fish tail at about 30mph and released the gas. The jeep stopped and I could feel my heart pounding in my chest. 

When I got back to the cabin my dad mentioned that next time I need to drive in those conditions to put the car/jeep in a lower gear to make the motor work to keep the vehicle moving. Going downhill like that will work as a brake with out having to apply the actual brakes.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

moondancer said:


> I've got snow tires on back and just road tires on front . I almost won't snow tires ( big lug like back ) on front so I could rotate all tires but was talked out of it


The way brakes work is about 70% of the braking is done with the front-end and 30% with the back-end. Having "road tires" in the front is doing more to ruin your braking ability - the winter-tires in the rear help get that beast moving.

You need (may I repeat that word .... *NEED*) to have the same kind of tires on all four corners of a vehicle for the best possible traction in all kinds of weather.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> How to stop in snow.
> 
> Drive slower. Slow down sooner, coast to a stop while lightly applying the brakes to stop.
> 
> ...


Maybe my daughter took driving lessons from your wife. She drives like this as well. When she was younger, I would literally put my head down between my knees.

If your experience is like mine, in my whole driving life, I never had to replace brakes or get them worked on as I had to when my daughter was driving my car. Actually, I don't think I ever had my brakes worked on until my daughter drove. BUT, after she started driving, I was amazed at how much brake work I had to have done on my car.

I also know that there are people who are not thinking past the front end of their car, or anything about where they are going.

When the roads are slick, I don't want to drive. The reason for this is not that I am afraid of the slick roads. It is because of the way people drive and do not reign it in when the roads are slick.

I'll bet I've said this on here before. That would be because I am so passionate about it.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

I'll second that about other drivers


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

moondancer said:


> Ok so my van does great in the snow but when I brake it will slide off in a heart beat. It has new tires new brakes and anti lock . I went from a4x4 to this and of coarse it way diff but is it normal or is there something I could do . It's a dumb ? I know but I'm at a loss it's causing me to lose work days


What kind of van? Front or rear wheel drive? Automatic or standard transmission?


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

Gmc rear wheel auto full size full of tools but not over weight


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Might have the front end checked over. Bad ball joints or upper A frame bushings can make it pull when you hit the brakes and/or accelerate. If you have one brake dragging (stuck piston in the caliper) it will get hot them won't hold when you hit the brakes which can make the vehicle pull to one side or the other.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Are you front tires heavy load LT type tires? if so some of these tires are very hard rubber compound so that they last a long time on the road, but in cold weather they are too hard to grip ice or packed snow.


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## moondancer (Dec 21, 2013)

Yes there heavy duty lt. Damn it get better info here then from my tire man


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Long time NE driver of 4wd pickup trucks. As pointed out, yes, some tires do naturally SUCK in icy conditions. Drive however you may, you get stuck in your own shadow. I always heard it was the grade of rubber and that you wanted more natural rubber (the expensive tires) to do better, can't confirm or deny this. My discontinued tire of choice was the Dunlop D60. Semi-street tread, quiet on the highway, load range E, but would clean itself out in the mud. GREAT TIRE, I guess that is why you can no longer get them.

Since I always drove 4WD pickups I had a rule of thumb. *IF* I had to use 4WD, GO SLOW!!!! I could get up and go better than anyone BUT.. I COULD NOT STOP ANY BETTER THAN THEY COULD! You hit the brakes, you were as helpless as anyone on the road. You lock them up, you are only along for the ride! If you go around the corner and start to lost it, your only choice may be the ditch or a telephone pole, and there is a split second to make that decision.

Beyond that, you drive a loaded van. Weight distribution is a huge factor. In an empty van the ass end is light, you are screwed on an icy road. The ass end is always going to want to come around. Too heavy, you are screwed also, you cannot steer. I used to take my truck to an empty parking lot, at the first snow each year. Get going 30 MPH and hit the brakes, HARD. Try and come to a stop. Next, make a right turn and HIT the brakes. Try to steer out of it and come to a stop. Go 30 and turn left, lock them up and try to stop. It is an eye opener each year. That 30 minutes in that parking lot gave me a lot of training that I had forgotten since last winter!

After that, the roads are snow covered, you have two wheel lanes each way. It is a 45MPH road you know well. You are driving 25, or maybe 30 if you are in a hurry. Some one comes up behind you, riding your ass... Slow down and flag them by. You will pass them in the ditch later, seen it lots of times.

As far as technique for driving in the snow? You NEVER want to hit your brakes! If you come to the point, or circumstance, that you HAVE to hit your brakes on a slippery road, pick a target. You ARE going to slide. If it is a fresh snow, the shoulder will have some grip, highway or back road. You may be able to get enough traction to come to a stop. Other than that pick an open area you can slide onto, median, shoulder with no guardrails, whatever. You only have a split second to make the choice and try your best to go for it. If you are far enough behind, going slow and have been watching what is up ahead (the recommended approach!) you have a few seconds to make a decision. Let off the gas! Coasting is your friend. Downshift, if you can, and deal with the tail wobble. [email protected]@K in the rear view mirror!!! That moron in the yellow Hummer is coming up on you, FAST, because he has a 4WD Hummer. They have absolutely no idea that they cannot stop, be prepared to be rear ended or skid yourself out of their way.

For the best tips? Stay off the roads. YOU may be able to handle icy, snowy roads, BUT the moron coming the other way may not. Go slooooow. Yes, morons will come up behind you. You can only hope they are able to slide off into the ditch like the morons they are should.

These are only tips from someone who would go out on those snowy, cold, windy, wintery nights to plow parking lots and driveways. My buddies had two old NYDMV trucks and we plowed many major parking lots all night. They would do the bull work, I did cleanup and shovel work for walkways. You would not believe how many morons were out at 3 in the morning thinking their vehicles were snow capable.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

moondancer said:


> Yes there heavy duty lt. Damn it get better info here then from my tire man


Tire man wants to sell tires ....

PS-members want to keep you safe ... and by doing that - they are keeping themselves safe too


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> Maybe my daughter took driving lessons from your wife. She drives like this as well. ..


I put new tires and brakes on her car at the same time I did the same to my truck. My tires and brakes lasted twice as long as hers (about the same mileage). She's either accelerating or decelerating, never in between.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

moondancer said:


> ...I think based on all the help that one side grabs and very pos there's no rear brakes


I think you just named your problem.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

these tires work well in most conditions, not as well in deep powder or mud as lug tires, but kick lug tires a$$ in all other conditions and they last really well, we run them on my wifes Yukon and the steering on our duallies, When I run out of salvage tires they will go on the drives too, but I am a bit of a cheap ole bugger,


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