# What does it REALLY mean to be prepared?



## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Just some late night musing as I worry about my little black cat Mara.. my cats always come back at nightfall, and she isn't here. I go looking every 30 minutes.. it's like your own child didn't come home at night.

I've had some... interesting times in my life, and things that have brought me to where I am now; shaped me into the man I am... there's ups and downs, and life is not a stroybook... but so what? We could all talk forever about the weirdness we have seen and done, and eventually it would end up sounding like a high school locker-room of people trying to outdo one another. While that's fun and sometimes has it's place; it's more an outgrowth OF these things which cause me to post this night.

One of the things that has... always bothered me about survival situations and preparedness is that people speak about it as if it's something abstract; as if you're preparing for a "what if" and really are not sure how it would work out. I'm here to tell you that there are people who survive such situations every day. These people are the denizens of the deepest inner cities. Now, I will preface this by saying the skillset is, in many ways, extremely different: urban survival vs rural-ish survival. You can ask my wife (if she ever registers here) that there are plenty of things about rural survival I do not know. We tried to go camping recently... a hilarious tale which ends with us being sent back home because we had chosen to camp in badger country and what I thought was a bear might have been a simple black cow cut the edge and made us decide to leave... but I am digressing and rambling. Point is it took us almost 2 HOURS to get a campfire going because neither of us really knew what we were doing.

She later asked me "I thought you were homeless for a few years.. why don;t you know how to start a fire?" and I answered her "Oh I do. Find one of the old style metal trash cans, fill it with whatever, and spark up a tiny bit of sterno near the bottom to get it all going." Point is, I'm not going to compare the base SKILLS of environment in which you survive at all. I'm here to talk about mindset.

Firstly, I am not trying to insult with this, it is.. musing and discussion. The skills you will learn on a site like this are absolutely, undeniably valuable in an end of the world type situation, or even an "end of my employment". I am, however, going to say that you can prepare for that all you want, and some of may will still die anyway if the SHTF. The truth is that inner city territories, gang awareness, and a full understanding of the scope of human nature that it brings out ends up having more in common with true "survival" than the knowledge contained in a thousand well-researched prep books for one single thing that I hate to consider:

Much of mankind gets scared easily, and therefore is more than willing to commit evil acts in order to alleviate that fear. I once said that "I love people, but I love MY people more"... this goes beyond that. The people who live in poor urban centers know an incredibly shocking level of violence and are prepared to commit it over respect and territorial defense and you know what? These folks have the survival mindset more than you could ever imagine. If society falls apart, these people will simply see it as a removal of what little constraints existed before, and they will take whatever they need. 

These people have truly spent their entire lives with firearms and violence. Many will put down a gangbanger and belittle their skills, but it is silly. Unless you have been a soldier, they are better than you at violence, and even many soldiers can't measure up. Sure, you take them to a range, and many could embarrass them in accuracy and speed drills, even making them look ridiculous in pistol courses. You can giggle about their holding pistols sideways (Protip: for what they want to do, that's actually a good idea!) but these people have spent their lives facing desperation and poverty almost since birth. When you want to get some target practice in you go to a range. when they want to get some target practice in... they go to a rival gang's known dealer corner and start a war.

You wear camouflage and it helps you hunt deer, these people wear their colors and it helps mark their territory. They live a direct animal existence. they soldier into one another's territory and wage short wars over a block or a corner weekly. It doesn't sound like a lot, and it's nothing compared to what a wartime Marine goes through but you know what? It's a lot more than someone who fires 500 rounds a week at a range is doing. You train and train and train, and when it coems down to it you'll be a better shot.. but how can you be sure you'll pull the trigger and it won't ruin you? there are sick people out there, people to whom human life means nothing. These people will happily come up and take whatever they want from you because human life is cheap. 

And another anecdote.. my wife and I were discussing preparations, and I guess the city isn't all out of me because I heard these words coming out of my mouth, "Well, the people in the yellow trailer at the end told me they've got a year of food stockpiled and they are extremely proud of their pacifism and hate guns. We can easily take half of their supplies before we go." And I shortly after felt sick, because that's not something a sane person should say.

It's sick to sentient creatures but.. look around you, look at nature. A few days back, a large-ish bird of prey grabbed onto the black cat that is now missing, and I thought she was gone. Turns out she was too heavy and fighting back.. the bird went down about 200 yards off, and shortly thereafter I found myself helping Mara drag that whatever it was home... it hit the ground and by golly, she tore it's throat out. At first I thought that bird was evil but.. then.. I began to wonder. The bird probably thought Mara was a mouse or something.. she's pretty small for a cat. Birds of Prey eat mice, it's what they do. Mice breed, mice eat a lot of protein, and mice have absolutely no defense against the birds beyond subterfuge.

Are we really so separate from animals? I'm not going to get into good or evil right now but... while I felt abhorred at what I said, it was a natural, survival mindset. The living beings near me flat out TOLD me there was a copious resource necessary for survival, and made it clear to me they had not the slightest intent or capability to DEFEND that resource. I have mixed feelings on my thoughts.. and I'm thankful my reflex was to say "easily take half their supplies" rather than "Kill them and take what they have".. I'm glad I'm above your common animal by at least that much.. but you know what? That train of thought is the true core nature of survival. The ability to watch out for your own with extreme prejudice against anyone who would take what you have. My neighbors down the block have "prepared" admirably.. but they're not at all interested in what it takes to achieve "survival".

It's conflicting, odd.. the primate/lizard brain versus our sentience. My cat, whom I love very much and think is so sweet... has a duality to her. She is kind and I imagine loves me, but she is also capable of great brutality, and, considering there's copious food available to her.. she does it merely to impress us, or just for practice. Mara, that sweet little cat who, frankly given the area is probably dead right now? She has what it really takes to survive, as well as a great capacity for (I imagine) love. Mara was prepared... and perhaps got a bit too confident.

What about all of us? Are we REALLY prepared? There's skills I lack and must learn. That helps prepare... but what else is there to it? Can you shoot.. not at a target at a range, but at a living, breathing person? Do you find the merest thought of harming another to ensure your own survival abhorrent? Or worse.. are you overconfident? Do you carry around throwing knives or stun batons and honestly believe you're going to be absolutely fine against gun-wielding folks already prepared to commit violence?

...is it right to BE that "prepared" to commit violence? I know tonight I'll be in prayer, not just for my cat, but for something in relation to these questions.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

You bring up some very good points here. In the military they use silhouette targets to get soldiers conditioned to shoot another human being. Paper punching black circles was good for marksmanship but did little to overcome learned behaviors that taught us to not hurt others. Chief Joseph, once picked a select few of his warriors to stand a rear gaurd action against the cavalry to give the tribe time to pack and escape. He chose the proven warriors that he knew would stay cool in combat and would, without hesitation, shoot to kill. These few held a much larger force at bay for hours. While many people will shoot toward the "enemy" or enemy positions, very few could ever be snipers in which they pick a single human being, line up the cross hairs on a specific spot and carefully squeeze the trigger. Being a sniper is for very few people. Marksmanship is not the problem. Anyone can be taught to hit a target at long range. Being able to hit a specific human target is something else entirely.

We must be prepared to kill but only to defend human life/lives or freedoms that must never be infringed.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I have never "lived on the streets" so I don't know first-hand what you are talking about survival, but, I can understand what you are talking about. When I worked in the core, I would see many of the "homeless" sitting where-ever they could and not take up the space of the "productive people". I would hear about the little "turf-wars" between the different gangs when the wars spilled out of their little area and into places where children were present.

I know some who were street-kids and cleaned-up and became part of the "productive people" group - but - the street-mentality won't leave them - ever.

I didn't grow up "privilaged" but I did grow up with something that many do not understand / respect. I grew up in the mountains where my front yard went 1500' straight up to the top of the mountain and my backyard went straight down to the bottom of the valley. I grew up with deer, bear, skunk, porcupine, etc as my neighbors (well, there were also people in my small village of 1,100 people perched on the side of the mountain). Put me in the woods and in the mountains, I am in my element and I can survive / thrive. 

I am living in a city now, I am surviving, but, I don't feel like I am thriving - too far from my element.


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## Diego2112 (Aug 18, 2010)

You bring up a VERY vaild point my friend. One my friends and I have discussed ad infinium, actually.

In my younger days (not that I'm all that OLD now), I was involved in gang related violence. I've seen and done things I'm none to proud of, too. Hell, I dont even REMEMBER my junoir year of high school I was so fried. By the grace of God, and the love of a woman who saw BEYOND WHAT I was, I got my life turned around. Today, I'm a decent husband to that woman, and a (in my opinion) decent father to our daughter.

I am a pacifist, now, as well. I've done my share of violence, and first hand, there is NO fulfillment in it. My friends and family all KNOW I'm pacifist, and know that I am stocking up on food/water/survival items (as they are doing). But they also know that WHEN (not IF) the :shtf:, my family comes FIRST. 

Do I have what it takes to pull the trigger on another human being? God help me if I ever have to, but yes. I have seen the side of humans when bad things happen (just look at New Orleans when Katrina hit... People shooting at RELIEF workers!). I have lived in war zones and seen what refugees deal with on a daily basis. If it is a choice between my family or THEM, God save their souls, because I wont think twice. 

I will NEVER strike out an a defenceless individual, OR take THEIR means of survival, but I WILL keep my family safe, at ANY cost.

Ok, wow, that got a little more serious than I wanted, so, to offset it a bit: BOINGO BOINGO WHOOPSY KNICKERS!


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Mmm. 2 AM rantings sure look weird the next day.. though somewhere in all of that is an object lesson best summarized this way:

Not all the animals in this world run on 4 legs. If you're not prepared to meet them on their level, they will do to you exactly what a wolf will do to a housecat. And they've had a lot more practice than most of us.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

TPR- has your little furkid showed up yet?
I do know what my limits are-I've been in life or death situation before and am still here. I know that if I am defending home and family not just me that I will probably be more ruthless than when I was just fighting for me.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Emerald said:


> TPR- has your little furkid showed up yet?


No.. and she was behaving in a certain way that gives us the feeling she went away intentionally to die. She seemed to be desperately trying to teach our other cat to hunt, and was bringing us mouse after mouse after mouse; like mother cats who are dying do for their kittens. We comfort ourselves knowing that Mara got to say goodbye before she went, even if we didn't understand what she was doing at the time.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> very few could ever be snipers in which they pick a single human being, line up the cross hairs on a specific spot and carefully squeeze the trigger. Being a sniper is for very few people. Marksmanship is not the problem. Anyone can be taught to hit a target at long range. Being able to hit a specific human target is something else entirely.
> 
> We must be prepared to kill but only to defend human life/lives or freedoms that must never be infringed.


 couldn't agree more. especially with todays weaponry that will not only allow you to take out an enemy from a mile or more away. But let you be able to see the color of their eyes while doing so. Shooting at an ememy from a distance away is fine for most people as they can detach the human side and use the conditioned shape. BUT after seeing the human face in the crosshairs it's way different and IMO less than 2% of us can/could still pull the trigger.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

townparkradio said:


> No.. and she was behaving in a certain way that gives us the feeling she went away intentionally to die. She seemed to be desperately trying to teach our other cat to hunt, and was bringing us mouse after mouse after mouse; like mother cats who are dying do for their kittens. We comfort ourselves knowing that Mara got to say goodbye before she went, even if we didn't understand what she was doing at the time.


Sorry about your baby! I have three furkids at the moment and two were rescues and I dread thinking that they will all pass before me.


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

I cant kill anyone else for any reason. If someone comes to take my food and or kill me, so be it. I am preparing to survive, but only to a point. I will NOT take another human life no matter what. I am not against others who are determined to protect their food supplies. we each make our decisions and neither is right or wrong. this is just how I am.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

MaryV said:


> I cant kill anyone else for any reason. If someone comes to take my food and or kill me, so be it. I am preparing to survive, but only to a point. I will NOT take another human life no matter what. I am not against others who are determined to protect their food supplies. we each make our decisions and neither is right or wrong. this is just how I am.


I'm guessing you don't have family to protect? No spouse, children, or even parents? That certainly makes it easier to stand there and be killed. I'd feel the same way if I didn't have a spouse, children, their spouses, and grandchildren. I'll lay down MY life if I have to, but I won't give it up easily, and they'd have to take my life to get to the rest of our family. My husband, MMM, would be at my side with the same opinion, I'm sure, as well as most if not all of the kids and their spouses!

Maybe some of that ability to pull the trigger depends on whether a loved one's life depends on it. I sure hope I don't have to find out.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> I'm guessing you don't have family to protect? No spouse, children, or even parents? That certainly makes it easier to stand there and be killed. I'd feel the same way if I didn't have a spouse, children, their spouses, and grandchildren. I'll lay down MY life if I have to, but I won't give it up easily, and they'd have to take my life to get to the rest of our family. My husband, MMM, would be at my side with the same opinion, I'm sure, as well as most if not all of the kids and their spouses!
> 
> Maybe some of that ability to pull the trigger depends on whether a loved one's life depends on it. I sure hope I don't have to find out.


Uhm...Dear? I'd probably be off a ways to your left or right so we'd have overlapping fields of fire. More effective that way. There'd probably be a few more off in the bushes somewhere taking aim too. ... But you are absolutely right in the family aspect. Anyone who is a legitimate threat any of ours will be taken out. No hesitation on my part at all. They won't even have to fire the first shot. I'll gladly do it.


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## flatwater (Dec 15, 2008)

Being prepared really hinges on your mental condition and can you digress from a civilized good person to the other end of the spectrom and turn basicly to an animal with just a little bit of humanity left. After things settle down could you live with yourself on what you had to do. with out that preperation you would not last long.


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## Diego2112 (Aug 18, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Uhm...Dear? I'd probably be off a ways to your left or right so we'd have overlapping fields of fire. More effective that way. There'd probably be a few more off in the bushes somewhere taking aim too.


I just want to say, I think this is quite possibly the best post I've ever seen in my life! 

But ya know, it's funny... I actually learned a little lesson in preparedness today. It's way to long to put here, but it's in my blog on this site. VERY humbling experience, to say the least!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/blogs/diego2112/almost-lost-7/

There's the link. To put it quite bluntly, I messed up. I messed up *BAD*.

But we live, and we learn, right?

:dunno:


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Glad you guys got out okay, Diego. (I read your blog post) Thanks for sharing it. We can all learn from it.


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## lhalfcent (Mar 11, 2010)

I don't know how to use a gun or anything like that. I would like to learn but not sure who could teach me.
I would be more like the medicine woman and cook who would take care of those who can do those things.


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## desertfox (Jul 16, 2010)

*Cat*

My cat, "Kitty", I have very little imigination when naming animals, said good bye. She was a pet, but she also was in individualist, and stayed gone a lot. She would let me pet her, but never rub her belly.

She came home once, laid on her back, and let me rub her belly. She had a large lump in her stomach that I decided was a tumor. Then she got up, went to the door and ask to be let out. When she got outside, she turned her head and meow'ed and left. I never saw her again!!


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Diego! Glad that you are all fine--Your little adventure has done in many folks who have done the same thing--"just going for a little hike to the (insert senic spot here) and lost the trail!" My family pick on me but I usually pack water enuf for everyone that I know is coming with us-and I make them carry it..
I have done it myself with my MIL and this was years before I even thought about prepping. Lucky for me I am all about the being comfy while out for a walk and had water, jerky, and those little cracker/cheese combo packs and lighter and towel and it all fits in this nifty fanny pack. And while I was not concerned about being lost(the area was only about 10miles square) my MIL is not in the best of health and could not travel as well as she thought she could.. By the time I got us turned back the right way and going towards home and on the main trail again it was totally dark and lucky for us- the whole family was out with big lights looking for us. so we only had the "panic" feeling and just a bit uncomfy compared to being totally lost and with nothing.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

lhalfcent said:


> I don't know how to use a gun or anything like that. I would like to learn but not sure who could teach me.
> I would be more like the medicine woman and cook who would take care of those who can do those things.


There are courses that you can take and groups that you can join. WildMist and I took our firearms safety courses together and we both passed with flying colors. We are both members of a local gun-range and will meet up with friends for "skills-testing" .. aka - target-practice.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

MaryV said:


> I cant kill anyone else for any reason. If someone comes to take my food and or kill me, so be it. I am preparing to survive, but only to a point. I will NOT take another human life no matter what. I am not against others who are determined to protect their food supplies. we each make our decisions and neither is right or wrong. this is just how I am.


Have to agree with gypsysue here. It's one thing to kill over stuff NOW. However in a shtf/teotwawki scenerio. things are different. It's not like you can run down to the local market for a bag of beans. Food IS life. If you let some scumbag take it what will your family, your kids do? Are you willing to sit by and watch them starve? Sorry but it may be my military training BUt if someone decides they are going to try to take my supplies..... I MIGHT bury them.... But My family will keep their supplies as long as I can "pull a trigger"


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

oldsoldier said:


> Have to agree with gypsysue here. It's one thing to kill over stuff NOW. However in a shtf/teotwawki scenerio. things are different. It's not like you can run down to the local market for a bag of beans. Food IS life. If you lwt some scumbag take it what will your family, your kids do? Are you willing to sit by and watch them starve? Sorry but it may be my military training BUt if someone decides they are going to try to take my supplies..... I MIGHT bury them.... But My family will keep their supplies as long as I can "pull a trigger"


I could have written that post (except for the military training), I feel the same way.

Do I want to kill/hurt/maim someone? NO!! 
Can I live with myself afterwards if I am forced to do it? Time will tell. 
Will I do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING in my power to protect and defend my kids, the rest of my family? You better believe it.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

mdprepper said:


> I could have written that post (except for the military training), I feel the same way.
> 
> Do I want to kill/hurt/maim someone? NO!!
> Can I live with myself afterwards if I am forced to do it? Time will tell.
> Will I do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING in my power to protect and defend my kids, the rest of my family? You better believe it.


Thank you......


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## booter (Jan 23, 2010)

I signed up for VietNam, went Airborne, got out & joined SWAT, I have; the skills, the training, the equipment. The ultimate PREPARATION you can't prepare for, 'THE WILL TO CARRY THROUGH WITH WHAT YOU KNOW YOU MUST DO' there is no way to learn about it, except to do it. In 
the Military and Law Enforcement it's called; 'the Application of Deadly Force' for a good reason. 



There's some Good left in this world, and it's Worth fighting for! -Samwise Gamge


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*A look back at the begining*

of the OP's point, I can, have, will use a gun, I've been trained by the best 
( Go Marines!!) been a street cop, etc etc... never had a doubt and train all the time..run and gun off the X shoooting .. all of it..

BUT

From my point, I really ain't the best gardener in the world.... ok not even the worst one.... what comes way behind last???? I can till a garden spot and I can do the things to make even a high country hunting camp a pleasant place even in a blizzard..

But everybody has a skill set what I can do is, shoot, just about anything that goes bang or launches a sharp stick I can and have used... I can teach anybody to shoot and shoot well , I'll admit that females are so much easier to teach... men and some boys , well they have this Testosterone issue, they may not have ever touched a gun in their lives... but they will not admit they have no idea how to shoot, they will resist teaching if they feel their manhood is being questioned... "DIGRESSING" !!

Knowing my weak areas I've prepped for them, I do have the buckets of LTS goods, and and Genny's and some tools, most of which I don't know squat about, I'm not mechanically inclined, I know a lot about a little ...or is it a little about a lot?..

So I've prepped mostly in the area of my expertise, I can form a MAG, I can train the security detail, I can teach anybody to shoot to kill ( yes you can!!) but while I could sew up a wound I couldn't dig out a bullet , I wouldn't know a good weed from a bad weed.. and ya really need to know that chit before you smoke em...( I can joke too !!! )

So...forming a MAG is in my best interest and with the L o t M that's what I'm doing.. building a safe place to be without having to travel a long distance is the first important step... finding the right people to offer a place to is also very important...

In the time I've been in TX I've met a lady that grows herbs, the kind for curing what ails ya not the other kind!!... and a few other folks with skills... most can't shoot, most might try, but if I do my part it will work out.. finding a Doc that's prep minded will follow soon.. or a good nurse with a surgery back ground.. inviting in the right people is smart BUT you also have to think about "WHO' that person will want to bring along... a good Nurse may be married to the worlds worst jerk, somebody who wants to be cared for but not break a sweat.. or somebody with a big family, a Doctor would be great but one with a lazy pampered wife and 6 spoiled kids??? better learn how to doctor yourself...

I always thought a good Vet would be as good a a GP doc... and could work on the whole MAG, 2 and 4 legged and Vets seem to have a different outlook about things..

Anyway I was just trying to point out that prepping isn't just being able to handle a gun... any former grunt can do that, growing a really great garden?? that's skill!! picking apart old clothing to make new clothing?? WOW, much better then a lot of things..

Find your skill set find your place then in your spare time learn somebody elses skill...

When I was a young Marine I was part of a small group who spent a week working with US Army Special Forces Reserves , they had just started wearing the Green Berets , I was totally blow away with their professionalism and their willingness to learn even from a lowly Marine PFC they were so much better at being leaders then the average Marine NCO that I wondered if following my dads foot steps had been smart... they learned and questioned and at the same time taught.. I was working with one of them one day he was a Sgt of some type... and I found out he was their medic! well we had our "Doc's" Navy Corpsmen, the greatest guys around but none of them could shoot a rifle or bore sight a 106 Recoiless anti tank gun.. their Demo man was cross trained with the medic and on and on.... I could see the Corps had some holes in it's TO... but the Green Machine grinds on , never stopping never slowing and usually never learning beyond "watch your sights and squeeze" that was a great lesson one I didn't follow well...

sorry for babbling on.. I'm house and dog sitting and I'm so bored I could puke!!... lol


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

We don't think about all that is required for everyday living now days. Everything is so convinent. We both grew up in rural areas, very little to no money so we learned how to survive with what we could grow or make or repair. We both have agreed if our home is threaten we will shoot to kill. I have no qualms about this, it is survival. I am not mechanical but my husband is. I can make clothes from scratch. We both love to cook and garden. We do all of our canning together, it's much more fun. My heart goes out to the young ones who think everything comes from the mall or fast food place. If it is not electronic they can't operate it. How sad, how very sad. They will have to work to earn a share when TSHTF. We have worked hard to prepare while others went their way in blissful ignorance.


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## crikey (Apr 3, 2009)

I guess I will be the naysayer here. This is crap. A bunch of gangbangers may survive if they are lucky but to compare them to our military is crazy talk. I would put up even the most basic of infantry soldiers against a gang in a shoot out and we would see how stupid this talk really is. Gangbanders will not survive for one big reason. They have no value of life. Some may think this is a positive thing and is why they will survive but when you do not value life, you will be turned on just like you turn on others. They also have no prep such as food storage or long term plans. Most of their life is spent trying to survive from one high to the next.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

crikey said:


> I guess I will be the naysayer here. This is crap. A bunch of gangbangers may survive if they are lucky but to compare them to our military is crazy talk. I would put up even the most basic of infantry soldiers against a gang in a shoot out and we would see how stupid this talk really is. Gangbanders will not survive for one big reason. They have no value of life. Some may think this is a positive thing and is why they will survive but when you do not value life, you will be turned on just like you turn on others. They also have no prep such as food storage or long term plans. Most of their life is spent trying to survive from one high to the next.


Less rap music and movies of the week, more reality. Your average gang member is no more coasting from one high to the next than your average Montana resident is running around with Nazi tattoos, snorting meth and having sex with his sister. It's tribalism like it's always been practiced, simply in an urban environment.

And if you armed soldiers and sent them with declared war intent into the turf these gang members have spent their lives learning the ins and outs of, you'd better bring a few hundred soldiers per dozen desperate folks violently defending their home. Guerrilla warfare on home turf has always caused far higher casualties against the invading force and your belief that everyone showing colors is the same as the 13 year old kids playing make believe in your neighborhood won't change that core truth.

In fact, your arrogant view of the capabilities of men who have spent their entire lives steeped in crime would cause you to underestimate them and be one of the first soldiers dead. You are exactly who I'm talking about, people who are sure they are so much better at everything than evil men simply by their (often flawed) view that they are the "good guys".

There are people who have similar opinions on "********" hitting the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan dying every day. You do not win guerrilla actions, ever, especially not playing make believe that "evil" men are coasting around using up your welfare dollars to buy dope and breed dozens of kids for giggles. criminals are intelligent men like everyone else, they simply have a different moral compass. They value their own lives very much. They value the lives of their friends very much. They value their colors and their turf very much.

They don't value your life at all, and holding vague suspicions about their motivations based on the entertainment industry won't do your survival awareness any good when they decide they want your stuff. dissent all you wish; there's a reason police do not go to certain neighborhoods.

Putting them in camo uniforms instead of blue ones and handing them "assault rifles" won't suddenly magically change that situation. A soldier's expected survivability in combat is what... 3 minutes? Making the combat happen in Los Angeles instead of Fallujah won't change that. Motivated, entrenched, willfully violent defenders engaging in hit and run always have the advantage. And they WILL raid known food supply places in sufficient numbers to try and overcome the same guerrilla odds. If TSHTF you think these people will suddenly decide it's no longer okay to kill to get what they want?

Nope. They'll send someone to barter with you and you'll walk right into the setup thinking you'll chase these drug users off your land with friendly words and "superior shooting skills".


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks, tpr, good points, even if somewhat forcefully given!

Anyone who doubts the ability of armed urban gangs against the military or police needs to read the book "Civil War II" by Thomas W. Chittum.

The gangs have the disadvantage of not having heavy artillery...yet. But other than that? Yeah, they will be a deadly and overwhelming force when the SHTF. Don't doubt that for a minute. And they will be hungry as well as crazed for drugs/because of drugs.

If you're in an area at danger of gang warfare (other than the normal every day), I'd quit making excuses why you can't move and make a plan and get out of there.

Think you can't do it? Ask me, I'll suggest several viable plans. You just have to have the guts to let go and make the changes and move.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

While I don't negate the efficiency and ruthlessness of gangs, their success against the military will depend largely on how badly the military wants to defeat them. In a SHTF situation they may gain a short respite while the military is busy trying to keep people alive but once the situation is stabilized and full attention can be devoted to restoring order the gangs will die. They may put up a fight but they will lose. Every force that has gone head to head against our military has lost. We have the numbers, the training, the resources, the firepower to defeat any enemy. If the will is there the gangs will lose. If necessary, the military can easily send 50 soldiers for every gang banger and they will. They train for this type of warfare and are very, very good at it. In these cases they are not going to be like the police or SWAT teams that have different rules to live by. They will be there to win. They won't play fair either.

Guerrilla fighters, to be successful must have safe places to hide, resupply and recuperate. They depend upon a "favorable" influence among the people. They must have reliable, outside resources to resupply everything they need. They must remain mobile because to stand and fight or have stationary posts, forts, factories etc. is to die. Cruise missiles, drones with smart bombs, artillary, helicopters, jets, any of these things can take out targets far enough away that the operators are nearly immune from reprisal. In a gang warfare situation the gang may control the city but so what? The military will isolate them then slowly close the noose until they are no different than cornered rats. Unless they can be resupplied with eveything they need, including more people to replace those killed they will eventually succumb to the superior force. The only way the current and past guerrillas triumphed was because they had safe places to go to supply, train and regroup. There were countries friendly to them that we could not go into. Eventually they won because we got tired of fighting them because the rules were in their favor. Gangs won't have that advantage. 

In a total collapse of the world as we know it or a few other things such as rebellion in the miitary itself, the gangs may survive but in anything less if they take on the military they will die. They may put up a good fight but they will lose.

Like GS said, if you live where gangs would be a danger after TSHTF then get out ASAP. Even if the military defeats them it won't be a nice place to be.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

crikey said:


> I guess I will be the naysayer here. This is crap. A bunch of gangbangers may survive if they are lucky but to compare them to our military is crazy talk. I would put up even the most basic of infantry soldiers against a gang in a shoot out and we would see how stupid this talk really is. Gangbanders will not survive for one big reason. They have no value of life. Some may think this is a positive thing and is why they will survive but when you do not value life, you will be turned on just like you turn on others. They also have no prep such as food storage or long term plans. Most of their life is spent trying to survive from one high to the next.


Hi Crikey
First, seeing your new here "Welcome" !! I don't think anybody here is talking about anybody standing up against out Military as a whole...BUT... understand this.. In LA alone I saw a report of 35,000 gang members.. and as a former US Marine I would not want to be going in there after those people.

The First Marine Div at Camp Pendelton CA has around 20,000 Marines.. now out of that number as I can best recall there is something like 5 support troops for every grunt..

that means the 11th Marines who are Artillery probably won't be used because I see no way any President would order the use of Artillery on an American city filled with people so that removes a whole Regiment of troops who can and would fight as grunts or replacements but... they really aren't trained for that role in combat...

Remove all the supply people , the amphibious landing units , the motor pool people on and on.. down in the mud are what? 5000 ok say 10000 shooters...35 thousand bangers? who can toss their gun away and their colors and there you have a 12 to 25 year old homeboy... the troops won't use heavy weapons.. napalm is out , so it's door to door against a people steeped in their own culture of life on the streets... the average 14 year old gangbanger in LA sees more danger in a week in South Central LA then
most troops see in a their whole hitch in the service...

And yes there are places in the inner city's of America that the cops will not go into unless there is a whole bunch of them.. and don't think for a second these are wannabes running around with a knife or a zip gun these people are very well armed and for the last 10 years or so it's come to light that the bigger gangs have been sending young men to join the military and after they get out they are teaching their homies about fighting the military way...

Anyway...I just wanted to toss that in the mix I think you spoke from a point of view that's close to you but one that may not have a lot of facts to support it...

One last thing... take time to read about the battle of the "Warsaw Ghetto" in WW2... a few , untrained Jews and I mean not more then a hand full who decided to fight , tied up an entire SS div. for over a month and killed a ton of them... with almost no weapons, and "no" training !! and how did the Nazis win??? they burned the place to the ground!!... not even Obama would allow LA to burn.... or would he?

anyway, not to beat up on you, we're all here to learn...


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> While I don't negate the efficiency and ruthlessness of gangs, their success against the military will depend largely on how badly the military wants to defeat them. In a SHTF situation they may gain a short respite while the military is busy trying to keep people alive but once the situation is stabilized and full attention can be devoted to restoring order the gangs will die. They may put up a fight but they will lose. Every force that has gone head to head against our military has lost. We have the numbers, the training, the resources, the firepower to defeat any enemy. If the will is there the gangs will lose. If necessary, the military can easily send 50 soldiers for every gang banger and they will. They train for this type of warfare and are very, very good at it. In these cases they are not going to be like the police or SWAT teams that have different rules to live by. They will be there to win. They won't play fair either.
> 
> Guerrilla fighters, to be successful must have safe places to hide, resupply and recuperate. They depend upon a "favorable" influence among the people. They must have reliable, outside resources to resupply everything they need. They must remain mobile because to stand and fight or have stationary posts, forts, factories etc. is to die. Cruise missiles, drones with smart bombs, artillary, helicopters, jets, any of these things can take out targets far enough away that the operators are nearly immune from reprisal. In a gang warfare situation the gang may control the city but so what? The military will isolate them then slowly close the noose until they are no different than cornered rats. Unless they can be resupplied with eveything they need, including more people to replace those killed they will eventually succumb to the superior force. The only way the current and past guerrillas triumphed was because they had safe places to go to supply, train and regroup. There were countries friendly to them that we could not go into. Eventually they won because we got tired of fighting them because the rules were in their favor. Gangs won't have that advantage.
> 
> ...


You're correct. If the military really WANTED to roll over them.. they could do it. Though on the other point, you should visit LA some time. The gang members are seen as folk heroes. They DO have places to hide and resupply. As insane as it sounds, in some places (Watts, most noticeably) it's the gangers who keep the turf safe for the old ladies to cross the street, not the police. They will have all the indigenous support guerrilla fighters need.

The military has to really WANt to pacify them.. and the military doesn't even seem to "want" to pacify Iraq or Afghanistan as it is.. many soldiers would simply turn and go AWOL if told to attack American soil. Guerrillas eventually lose if the occupying force is persistent enough, but it require s a willingness to USE those drones and bombs and air to ground fighters to do it effectively.

In a straight shooting match, the conclusion isn't so foregone. IF the military had the guts to do what it takes to win... you're correct, it won't be a very nice place to live once they are done.

My point was more not to underestimate them... not to say they could somehow stand against army regiments in armor willing to ignore collateral damage. Too many people think that gang members are as dangerous as their neighbor's dog.. when these people have spent their entire lives in more danger than most soldiers or police will ever see. At last count I heard they were about 28K strong in Los Angeles alone. If they ever dropped their colors and united, there isn;t but 10 thousand officers in all of LA; it would require military intervention to prevent it form becoming it's own country, pretty much.

The very tribalism which makes them so dangerous in a SHTF situation to individuals is the same tribalism that prevents them form becoming a serious threat.. but it only takes one really persuasive leader to put an end to that.

And, this might shock you a bit to think, MMM, but do you think that if it really DID hit and Obama made speeches asking them to unite they wouldn't do it? I just got done reading "Dreams From My Father" and I find myself wondering about his motivations. I'm beginning to think he WANTS our economy to fall.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Actually, DON'T visit LA. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. When I lived there I become convinced the place needed to be nuked, and if the price to clean it off the earth was my death I'd have had to flip a coin on that one.

Hollywood Boulevard is really nice for a few blocks, and where the movie stars live is prettier than Mayberry.. but the rest makes Lagos look like a relaxing vacation.


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## crikey (Apr 3, 2009)

Funny you mention the sandbox. It brings me to a good point. We have killed thousands and thousands of them to our what? 2000 soldiers dead? I hate for any American to die but when you look at the odds, they are def. in our favor. Want to rethink your stance on a trained soldier vs a banger? Defending their home or not, there is no replacement for skill my friend.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

"The military has to really WANt to pacify them.. and the military doesn't even seem to "want" to pacify Iraq or Afghanistan"

In this case you are very wrong. The "military" would love to fight like they're trained to do but the politicos keep getting in the way. The term "another vietnam" doesn't refer to the soil a war takes place on ... it refers to a war defined by politicians without the backbone to do everything it takes to win. If our guys were given a green light to eradicate the enemy wherever they can find them they would and we'd have been done by now. The current "war" is to reform their political system. The "enemy" is mobile. Coalition forces rolled over the opposition in Iraq and Afghanistan with hardly a "burp." But they were and are stopped in destroying the enemy by a line on a map. In "wars" like that the enemy simply goes to safe harbor and regroups. That is what happened in Vietnam and is what's happening here. If we defeat them in Paksitan they'll go to Africa. Unless and until we go after them without regard to artifical boundaries we will never "win." The military knows this ... Washington knows it too but they're unwilling to pay the price politically to fight the war as it needs to be fought in order to win.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*Uh...TPR..*

Never say our Military don't want to win, of course they do if your statement was that our "Civilian" leaders didn't want the military to win we would be in agreement.

In truth the war in "Nam" could have been over in 6 months but Johnson had a different agenda, the PTB's wanted that war to drag on for as long as possible because they were making billions off of it...

The same can be said for Korea and now in the middle east... Our fighting men and women are in danger because somebody wants them there not winning and it sure isn't the troops.

The Officer corp of the military in the top ranks is too political, those 3 and 4 stars won't take a step without making sure their ass is covered . When was the last time anybody saw a General Office stand up to a Senate hearing and tell those fools the truth? I think it Oliver North maybe.... and he was a lowly LT. Col. of Marines... and the Senators response?? was to try to strip him of his pension !!!

My point is all the wrongs as to our Military fall back on the shoulders of the Politicians who have no idea what it is to be in the Military with the exception of a few who did serve. and of those look at John Kerry..( you look I can't stand to !!)

Anyway...damn the Belt Way crowd not the troops..which of course I know you weren't...

God save the troops!!........ from their greatest enemy....The American Politician.


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

HozayBuck said:


> the PTB's wanted that war to drag on for as long as possible because they were making billions off of it...
> 
> The same can be said for Korea and now in the middle east... Our fighting men and women are in danger because somebody wants them there not winning and it sure isn't the troops.


Nicely put HB


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

To support what some of you are saying above, watch the movie "Green Zone", about the war in Iraq and the so-called intelligence information about the weapons of mass destruction. 

Maybe not a lot of fact in the movie, but it shows how frustrating it was for our guys watching each other get killed as they carried out these "missions" and time after time, didn't find the WMD and biological agents, etc., that they were sent in to find. 

Corruption is rampant in every segment of politics, the corporate world, and probably even in the military. 

But I agree that if our guys could just go out there and use their training and kick butt, they'd win. Even over gangs, though that would be a heck of a battle.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

townparkradio said:


> Less rap music and movies of the week, more reality. Your average gang member is no more coasting from one high to the next than your average Montana resident is running around with Nazi tattoos, snorting meth and having sex with his sister. It's tribalism like it's always been practiced, simply in an urban environment.
> 
> And if you armed soldiers and sent them with declared war intent into the turf these gang members have spent their lives learning the ins and outs of, you'd better bring a few hundred soldiers per dozen desperate folks violently defending their home. Guerrilla warfare on home turf has always caused far higher casualties against the invading force and your belief that everyone showing colors is the same as the 13 year old kids playing make believe in your neighborhood won't change that core truth.
> 
> ...


*And if you armed soldiers and sent them with declared war intent into the turf these gang members have spent their lives learning the ins and outs of, you'd better bring a few hundred soldiers per dozen desperate folks violently defending their home. *
In the debacle that became know as "Black Hawk Down"even though the Rangers were badly outnumbered 1000 Somalis died and only 19 American GIs lost their lives in the conflict. The Somalis were much better armed than any American "gang". Look what happened in Desert Storm when the American military was turned loose.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Jarhead0311 said:


> In the debacle that became know as "Black Hawk Down"even though the Rangers were badly outnumbered 1000 Somalis died and only 19 American GIs lost their lives in the conflict. The Somalis were much better armed than any American "gang". Look what happened in Desert Storm when the American military was turned loose.


Turned loose, yes, alot of good (or bad depending on your point of view) can be done quickly. But, I believe that the gist of this message is that, do not underestimate groups of people that have a different moral-code than yourself.

*I cannot in good conscience kill someone, but, if I killed that conscience first, there is no problems killing others as well.* Many of the "gang-bangers" have already killed their conscience, have you, or you, or even you (yes, I am even talking to myself in those "you's").

Hunting for meat (deer) is different from killing your own pet which is different again from killing another person. I can pull the trigger on a deer, I could not pull the trigger on my dog, and, god forbid the day that I need to pull the trigger on another person.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> Hunting for meat (deer) is different from killing your own pet which is different again from killing another person. I can pull the trigger on a deer, *I could not pull the trigger on my dog,* and, god forbid the day that I need to pull the trigger on another person.


The hunting aspect I'm believe most of us here are comfortable with. The next step, the killing of a "pet", well, I was put in that position this past summer. One of the barn cats, which have food available 24/7, decided that our chickens were fair game which seemed odd because the cats have always been afraid of the chickens. 
One morning I was outside and heard a ruckus in the coop. I thought we had another fox. I looked out to see "Alice" climbing out of the run on one of the wooden corner posts with a chicken in her mouth. I didn't give it a second thought. Alice was terminated just like any other predator. 
As Naekid said, I hope the day never comes that I need to decide whether to terminate a 2 legged predator.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

UncleJoe, I know what you mean. It's not pleasant, but ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I've had to put down most of the aged dogs we've had in the nearly 4 decades my better half and I have been married. Not an easy thing to do, but taking the dog to a quiet place in the woods, talking to him, petting him, giving him a bite of meat, then -- it's over. Far better for an ailing dog than a half hour drive to a strange vet's office, a wait in the waiting room,etc. From the dog's perspective it's better for him. From many humans' perspective, I'm cold hearted, inhumane, etc. 

As for rogue dogs.......yup. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

HozayBuck said:


> Never say our Military don't want to win, of course they do if your statement was that our "Civilian" leaders didn't want the military to win we would be in agreement.


That was what I meant, I had spoken unclear. Our civilian leaders wouldn't allow troops to pacify L.A. any more than they do our enemies in Afghanistan.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Jarhead0311 said:


> *And if you armed soldiers and sent them with declared war intent into the turf these gang members have spent their lives learning the ins and outs of, you'd better bring a few hundred soldiers per dozen desperate folks violently defending their home. *
> In the debacle that became know as "Black Hawk Down"even though the Rangers were badly outnumbered 1000 Somalis died and only 19 American GIs lost their lives in the conflict. The Somalis were much better armed than any American "gang". Look what happened in Desert Storm when the American military was turned loose.


If the Somalis had access to heavy artillery and were willing to use it, we would not hear about their brave standoff against incredible odds. We would have heard how some of our boys were shot down and then, after a heroic struggle, were obliterated under a precision bombing strike.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

Those men held out all night, and then the 10th Rangers, if I recall correctly, dispatched a HUNDRED armored vehicles to rescue those men which is where those casualty numbers come into play. The men at the first site held out all night, with not a lot of losing action due to their proper military bearing and courage under fire.

The second site was overrun by the superior (at the time) enemy force and the lone survivor there was a prisoner; I'm sure he did his best as well.

The battle of Mogadishu has been dramatized in movies, but the casualty numbers you hear? That is the results of what happens when the military IS willing to do what it takes to pacify an enemy force. The battle of Mogadishu kinda makes my point; when the military is allowed to DO so.. they are excellent at what they do. You really think that would be authorized on American soil? What would happen is the military would be sent to police the area, in which case they would be the invaders, NOT the defenders.

You have to bring dozens of men per opposition force (or other force equalizers like.. say.. what the heck are homeboys gonna ever do against APC's and Abrams?) in situations like that to roll over them. If you sent one soldier per one gang banger into LA, you'd be hearing reports about how the first day they took dozens by surprise, and then over the next few weeks their numbers would dwindle to nothing as the defenders fade into the city and pick their battles carefully. It's not like soldiers are magical. They are men. Just like the gangbangers (many of whom, as another poster pointed out, were also soldiers).

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Admiral Boorda, was it, I think said something that fits best, in response to a journalist asking if some new ship based weapon was "fair"?

"The last thing I EVER want to see is a US Navy Sailor in a 'fair fight'." All of our branches of the military should be allowed to operate exactly like that. My next door neighbor when I was a kid was a bomber pilot in WW2 over Japan. They almost always received bombing run orders two days in advance. They used to overfly and drop empty Coke bottles into civilian areas around the proposed attack, and then return home.

And then when they came back the next day? They would unleash the fires of Hell itself on anyone, civilian or military, stupid enough to stick around.

As it always should be. We need to quit dinking around in the Middle East. Pacify the area or get out. These people will NEVER EVER accept our way of life, we will, for a very long time, always be Satan to them. I vote for getting out, as stated before.. but what we're doing right now will never work.


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## townparkradio (Mar 30, 2010)

crikey said:


> Funny you mention the sandbox. It brings me to a good point. We have killed thousands and thousands of them to our what? 2000 soldiers dead? I hate for any American to die but when you look at the odds, they are def. in our favor. Want to rethink your stance on a trained soldier vs a banger? Defending their home or not, there is no replacement for skill my friend.


I'll prepare based on what I have lived, you prepare based on your fantasy that they're all harmless fried-chicken-eating illiterates drifting from one drug high to the next.


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## Kathryn (Jun 10, 2010)

Diego2112 said:


> I just want to say, I think this is quite possibly the best post I've ever seen in my life!
> 
> But ya know, it's funny... I actually learned a little lesson in preparedness today. It's way to long to put here, but it's in my blog on this site. VERY humbling experience, to say the least!
> 
> ...


Yea, we all learn from our DUH moments. Mine was when I decided to go on a hike by myself with our dog/son Napolean. I love hiking in raviens, and Napolean, being a good little scout, would walk about a 100 yards ahead then come back to check on my progress, then head back out again. Once he came back, stopped, and pointed (where he got that from I don't know), but to my surprise there running down into the ravein about a 100 yards out were three beautiful, big elk. Then up the other side they went. I was in awe with what Napolean had done, and with the beauty I had just seen. But Napolean's awesomeness was to be proven much later on our hike. We countinued walking for about another three hours until I saw the first signs of rain clouds coming in and decided to start heading back. I had with me a camel bag, and my .45. I had so wisely been taking tall growing flowers I had pulled up along the way and layed them in the middle of the ravien facing the direction I had come. Well, the first three flower directors were where I put them, but then it started to rain. It is amazing how much things can change their appearance when they are wet, because before I knew it I was lost. I knew the general direction I needed to go, but that isn't much help when you are in the middle of nowhere in the White Mountains of Arizona. Well, Napolean and I kept walking for about two and half hours, getting nice and wet. Napolean was staying closer to me, but I think he was really trying to get me moving faster because he hates getting wet. I finally thought I was close enough to our camp for my husband and our friends to hear a gun shot, which is our signal that something is wrong (two quick shots followed by one single shot), so I sent my signal. I waited for a few minutes hoping to hear my husbands reply, (a single shot followed by two quick shots), before looking to Napolean and telling him "Let's go find Daddy". As soon as those words came out of my mouth he ran out in front of me like 200 yards. I had just a few minutes before slipped on a wet rock and twisted my ankle a little, scratched up the palm of my hand (which hurt worse than my ankle), so I wasn't moving very fast, which irritated Napolean who wanted to be out of the rain. I got about fifty yards away from Napolean and repeated "Let's go find Daddy" to which he seemed to take as "Lassy go home" and off he ran at full speed. Needless to say I lost sight of him almost immediately. Now, we live in the city so Napolean is always on a leash, he stays in camp when we are camping, and has never before been out in the wilderness by himself, so now I was worried that our son was going to be even more lost than I was. I continued walking for another thirty minutes, then heard the wonderful sound of a quad. I knew I was saved, but was worried about Napolean. When my husband found me he explained that Napolean came back to camp and jumped right into his lap, and when I wasn't right behind him my husband knew something was wrong. He hadn't heard my signal shots because it was hailing in camp, and when he found me I was still about three miles from camp.

Needless to say, I have learned my lesson. Leave better markers, and when I get lost put Napolean on a leash and then tell him to go find Daddy. LOL

As for this thread, I am a psychologist and know the mental trauma that killing another human being causes, but I wouldn't hesitate to shoot to kill anyone that was trying to keep me or my family from surviving. I'll deal with the mental trauma when necessary, but until then don't mess with "Annie Oakly".


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

townparkradio said:


> If the Somalis had access to heavy artillery and were willing to use it, we would not hear about their brave standoff against incredible odds. We would have heard how some of our boys were shot down and then, after a heroic struggle, were obliterated under a precision bombing strike.


Yeah and *if* grasshoppers carried 45s crows wouldn't attack them.

That was the point...gangs don't have heavy weapons either.... nor the training nor the command structure nor the discipline.
Do you believe gangs are more capable of facing US Marines than were the Iraqis of Fallujah ?


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I have a small compass I can clip on my belt loop. A friend gave it to me so I could always find my way. Might be a good thing to keep in our BOB.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Clarice said:


> I have a small compass I can clip on my belt loop. A friend gave it to me so I could always find my way. Might be a good thing to keep in our BOB.


 great asset whether on foot or driving, you'd be supprized how lost a person could get if they had to go off on a dirt rd and make a couple lefts and rts, at least a compass would keep you going in the right general dirrection.


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## Earl-The-Squirrel (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks for the article, I never thought about it in that way. Urban survival is a real struggle.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Regarding the OP.

Violent people don't waste time thinking about this. 

They do what is necessary.

If someone is wasting time on this belly button examination when push comes to shove, some of us are going to enjoy your stuff.


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## crikey (Apr 3, 2009)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Regarding the OP.
> 
> Violent people don't waste time thinking about this.
> 
> ...


Hate to disagree with you but just because its a SHTF situation does not mean we cannot be a compassionate people. A survival situation in where I have extra means just that...extra. I have built an additional bunkhouse on my land just down the road from my cabin to house people in a time of need should the need arise. Its doesn't mean I am weak nor does it mean I am a push over and I highly doubt people will be "enjoying my stuff" however, it pays to have others you can trust and help working the land, pulling guard, chopping wood and tending the animals is always a good thing. There is strength in numbers.

I think alot of us think we are going to go it alone. This is unreasonable. As long as they are of the same mindset and you can get along....and there is ample supplies...a group will always out survive an individual.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

crikey said:


> Hate to disagree with you but just because its a SHTF situation does not mean we cannot be a compassionate people. A survival situation in where I have extra means just that...extra. I have built an additional bunkhouse on my land just down the road from my cabin to house people in a time of need should the need arise. Its doesn't mean I am weak nor does it mean I am a push over and I highly doubt people will be "enjoying my stuff" however, it pays to have others you can trust and help working the land, pulling guard, chopping wood and tending the animals is always a good thing. There is strength in numbers.
> 
> I think alot of us think we are going to go it alone. This is unreasonable. As long as they are of the same mindset and you can get along....and there is ample supplies...a group will always out survive an individual.


Just be careful offering aid to people. Perpetually "needy" people tend to be needy for a reason. Often because they are self-centered, whiny and lazy with a "you owe me" attitude. Granted, in a SHTF situation there will be a lot of good quality people out there needing help but the difficult thing will be deciding who you should help. Don't get bogged down trying to save those who won't help themselves. All they'll do is drag you down with them. They will be a liability ... not an asset.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Whenever possible..."teach a man to fish." Don't just give him the fish day after day.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Whenever possible..."teach a man to fish." Don't just give him the fish day after day.


And if he isn't willing to learn how to fish, go fishing, clean the fish and cook the fish ... let him starve. You'll be doing yourself and civilization a favor!


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## InTheTrenches (Feb 21, 2010)

*What's next.*

A large part of being prepared is knowing what to be prepared for. Today I posted an article that outlines what I think are the next steps to be alert to. I hope you will read it, respond, and pass it on.
In The Trenches - Budgeting for Financial Survival and Recovery: After Housing Bubble, the Dark Side of Homeowner Dreams - TIME

If I am correct, what is our best defensive strategy? I have a couple thoughts but would like to hear from others.

1. Promote awareness. That has got to be on the top of the list.
2. Quit doing business with the top level banks and support the smaller establishments.
3. Support candidates who have an America First approach to purchasing land. Why are non U.S. citizens allowed to buy large portions of American land? 
4. Don't be mislead into thinking that the policies in effect are limited to one political party. It is both. It is about money. 
5. America has the capability to be totally independent of foreign entanglements. It may cost more. Buy and promote American Made products and services.
6. Talk about it. I have been told that people only care about what happens to them personally. As long as they get their piece of the pie they don't care. I hope not. 
7. Food. The final phase is taking over food production. This is well underway. Do what you can to promote American agriculture, self-sufficiency, heirloom seeds.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak out on these issues and I hope you will give them your consideration.


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