# 2017??



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

One of the most common questions on these pages and in our minds is: "when will it happen." I think many of us are pretty certain that if things keep going the way they are going a economic collapse is in the tea leaves, but the powers at be keep on putting band-aids on the problem and pushing back the inevitable.

Well at least one Russian politician seems to think that 2017 is the year. (http://rt.com/business/russian-lawmaker-dollar-ban-663/)

Now don't get me wrong, I think you would have to be the dumbest man on earth to have solid knowledge about a dollar collapse and tell anyone else about it except in the strictest confidence. This is likely a politician grandstanding, but what is remarkable is that the possibility of a dollar collapse, and the decoupling of dollar's reserve status is now talked about semi-regularly,by foreign governments and politician if not in the mainstream media. And now we are starting to see governments trying to protect their citizens from the USD.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I've been thinking about this since it first came out and it seems rational to me. We are going to have to pay the piper eventually and barry is going to want to delay that crash till after he is out of office in 2017. I had figured it would be at least after the 2014 election but after the 2016 election makes as much sense. The Russian government certainly has more info than I do.


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## Sourdough (May 22, 2010)

The name of the game is: Put yourself into a position that it does not matter what or when anything happens.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Caribou said:


> I've been thinking about this since it first came out and it seems rational to me. We are going to have to pay the piper eventually and barry is going to want to delay that crash till after he is out of office in 2017. I had figured it would be at least after the 2014 election but after the 2016 election makes as much sense. The Russian government certainly has more info than I do.


I disagree.

Obozo would rather a collapse happens on his watch because he is the elected president. He is in command, and therefore his puppet masters with the money are in command. He really is nothing more than their pawn.

2015 seems far more likely to me. Well before any chance of elections that would unseat him.

I will be pleasantly surprised to see a peaceful transfer of Presidency from an empty chair to someone else, and I hope it's not the Hildebeast LOL!


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Dakine said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Obozo would rather a collapse happens on his watch because he is the elected president. He is in command, and therefore his puppet masters with the money are in command. He really is nothing more than their pawn.
> 
> ...


Never let a good crisis go to waste....

If it happens while Obama holds the presidency I worry that we will not see a presidential election in 2016, and with Obamacare tanking it and all the uncertainty in 1/5th of our economy it certainly could happen sooner.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Padre said:


> Never let a good crisis go to waste....
> 
> If it happens while Obama holds the presidency I worry that we will not see a presidential election in 2016, and with Obamacare tanking it and all the uncertainty in 1/5th of our economy it certainly could happen sooner.


I agree. Or at least I agree in principle....

we might see martial law, and a well regulated election... with the outcome clearly broadcast in the news just like it was in the first two Obozo elections only this time on steroids... there will be the masses begging him to assume power and do whatever possible to keep the disaster at bay instead of crushing them.

"useful idiots" I think is the term for them. and they can drive and vote! great! the generation of no responsibility meets the ideology that encourages it!

basically... we're ****ed.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Dakine you could be right. As I said, I've been looking to the cut off being the 2014 elections. It also makes sense to me that 2016/2017 could be their target date. When it comes down to it the banks could close next Friday, I just don't know.

Sourdough you hit the nail on the head, the goal is to be ready whenever things go down. Some of us are ready today, but we will be better prepared a year from now. Three years from now even more people will be prepared. I believe, and this may just be wishful thinking, that more people are waking up to the potential. 

As the country gets worse and worse I see the people getting more and more prepared. Like I said, it could be wishful thinking.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Ok, see my thought ? Over under money... Same topic almost... I just have this "itch" in my mind as it seems a puzzle is being put together... And not liking the picture.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

2015 BOL is paid for. Of course property taxes means I never really own it, at least until it all burns down and there's no one to collect. Just train and prep for the little things and the big things will come together.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I don't think the Russians have any knowledge we don't, other than what they intend to do themselves. I also am not convinced that economic collapse is any more likely than lots of other scenarios, unless you think it happened in 2008 and we're already in it and just haven't recognized it.

On the other hand, if you think we are headed for the loss of reserve status for the US dollar, then 2017 isn't a bad guess.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

musketjim said:


> 2015 BOL is paid for. Of course property taxes means I never really own it, at least until it all burns down and there's no one to collect. Just train and prep for the little things and the big things will come together.


I DO NOT want to get into a debate about debt but I would point out all of us should have the presence of mind to TAKE ADVANTAGE of inflation, if and when it happens, long term debts are usually FIXED, so if there is hyper-inflation and we are still getting paid wages (inflating daily) we all should think to quickly use that cash to pay off debts (while there is someone still working to receive payment and give you a reciept).

*Along with this, if you have EXTRA money that is worthless for purchasing useful things why not pay for something less than useful, like government (i.e. pre-paying property taxes).*


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

I'll take 2014


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Dixie said:


> I'll take 2014


A collapse before the 2014 elections gets us more conservatives. More people are learning the (R ) after the name doesn't mean much. Can you spell RINO!

A collapse after the midterms keeps more of barry's base intact but hopefully conservatives will turn out this time.

My question is whether he wants the collapse to occur while he is in office, so he can deepen it, or after he leaves, so he can blame it on Bush.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Padre said:


> I DO NOT want to get into a debate about debt but I would point out all of us should have the presence of mind to TAKE ADVANTAGE of inflation, if and when it happens, long term debts are usually FIXED, so if there is hyper-inflation and we are still getting paid wages (inflating daily) we all should think to quickly use that cash to pay off debts (while there is someone still working to receive payment and give you a reciept).
> 
> *Along with this, if you have EXTRA money that is worthless for purchasing useful things why not pay for something less than useful, like government (i.e. pre-paying property taxes).*


One of the options being mentioned by economists is the devaluing of the dollar by 50%. They say that other countries have done this when they were in financial trouble. Normally devaluation of the money will increase any debt by 100%. An example would be if you owed $100,000 on your mortgage before the devaluation, after the devaluation you would owe $200,000 in the new money.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Paying taxes in advance*

I have wondered about this. Even if your taxes on your property changed and went up or down, I would think being able to pay them in advance, if you have the money, would have some merit, relative to difficult times.

Does anyone know how far in advance you can pay them?


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Tweto said:


> One of the options being mentioned by economists is the devaluing of the dollar by 50%. They say that other countries have done this when they were in financial trouble. Normally devaluation of the money will increase any debt by 100%. An example would be if you owed $100,000 on your mortgage before the devaluation, after the devaluation you would owe $200,000 in the new money.


That would bring an instant end to the dollar as a reserve currency.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Tweto said:


> One of the options being mentioned by economists is the devaluing of the dollar by 50%. They say that other countries have done this when they were in financial trouble. Normally devaluation of the money will increase any debt by 100%. An example would be if you owed $100,000 on your mortgage before the devaluation, after the devaluation you would owe $200,000 in the new money.


I lived three months in a country trying to get hyperinflation in hand. For an American with a stable dollar at the time it was GREAT, I was a teenager and living large.

Devaluation is a possibility in a hyperinflation but it is expensive, you don't just say a gallon of milk now costs a dollar, you need to create a whole new currency with a new valuation. Printing all that new money and exchanging the old for the new is very slow as is rebuild confidence in that currency. Thus it is only considered when you have triple digit inflation, it doesn't occur fast, it usually doesn't result in a currency stronger than the pre-collapse currency, and usually is accompanied by laws which govern exchanges in debt, i.e. you can't insist in being paid a pre-adjusted balance in post-adjusted currency.

So sure if you incur debt when a gallon of gas costs $100USD and then are forced to repay that debt when a gallon cost $1 new USD then perhaps you will be screwed. But if you incurred a debt when that same gallon cost $1 and now it costs $3 you are paying a lot less for that dollar you borrowed at principle, usually interest makes up for this discrepancy, but if tomorrow gas costs $100, and (this is a big "if") your pay is adjusted for cost of living, even if that money is devalued eventually you would likely have time to pay off debts and it would have to be devalued below the $1 per gallon benchmark with no provision for exhange between new and old dollars for you to be put in a bind.

IT ALL COMES DOWN TO BEING AWARE AND PREPARED--the SHTF can in many way be a potential for wealth creation for those who are prepared and ready to react to it.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> That would bring an instant end to the dollar as a reserve currency.


That is a foregone conclusion, I think everyone sees the end of dollar dominance, the problem is they don't understand the benefits to our economy and way of life afforded by reserve status and the crisis the loss of it will precipitate.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Padre said:


> I lived three months in a country trying to get hyperinflation in hand. For an American with a stable dollar at the time it was GREAT, I was a teenager and living large.
> 
> Devaluation is a possibility in a hyperinflation but it is expensive, you don't just say a gallon of milk now costs a dollar, you need to create a whole new currency with a new valuation. Printing all that new money and exchanging the old for the new is very slow as is rebuild confidence in that currency. Thus it is only considered when you have triple digit inflation, it doesn't occur fast, it usually doesn't result in a currency stronger than the pre-collapse currency, and usually is accompanied by laws which govern exchanges in debt, i.e. you can't insist in being paid a pre-adjusted balance in post-adjusted currency.
> 
> ...


I have made plans to be in a position to allow some quick reaction to whatever happens with the dollar. I'm not confident of the path the dollar will be taking in the next few years, so I'm leaving options open.

Between, devaluation, inflation, hyperinflation, and deflation, deflation seems to be my guess at the moment. The fed whats more inflation and is printing money to get it (not working). What the fed is not saying is that their big fear is deflation.


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## AfleetAlex (Nov 8, 2013)

When the bombs fall on our soil, it will happen. 

They need a war to blame it on, so The People have an enemy other than those responsible; to shift the blame to.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Guys... you're not looking big picture. It has nothing to do with the R's or D's or who's in charge... Think globally. As long as the rest of the world is tied to the dollar, they'll keep propping us up. If you ask me the collapse is already underway, most just haven't figured it out yet. The smart ones around the world know it. We're a big ship with a gash in the side of it. It already happened. We're taking on water. We're going down... however...

The "others" around the world will keep bailing with us, knowing it's futile, but trying to buy enough time to get "their stuff" safely away from us. Once they've all packed up their stuff and rowed away we'll then be allowed to finally go down.

Keep an eye on the nations that are making deals to avoid using the US as the reserve currency. Watch China develop markets that meet or exceed the US in buying crap from them. Signs like these are, to me, some of the final ones. You're seeing things happening already on these fronts, but they take time to fully implement. Once these start to come to fruition the end will definitely be in sight. 

Before the collapse, things like the banks "stealing" the depositor funds in Cypress are being "floated" as beta tests. if it can be pulled off in a small country, then they just scale it up for larger countries.

So, 2017? Far enough out to be believable but it's nothing more than a guess.


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## AfleetAlex (Nov 8, 2013)

In 2012 a bunch of celebs and big time CEO's applied for building permits to build bunkers. That should be an indication of where we're going.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

CulexPipiens said:


> Guys... you're not looking big picture. It has nothing to do with the R's or D's or who's in charge... Think globally. As long as the rest of the world is tied to the dollar, they'll keep propping us up. If you ask me the collapse is already underway, most just haven't figured it out yet. The smart ones around the world know it. We're a big ship with a gash in the side of it. It already happened. We're taking on water. We're going down... however... The "others" around the world will keep bailing with us, knowing it's futile, but trying to buy enough time to get "their stuff" safely away from us. Once they've all packed up their stuff and rowed away we'll then be allowed to finally go down. Keep an eye on the nations that are making deals to avoid using the US as the reserve currency. Watch China develop markets that meet or exceed the US in buying crap from them. Signs like these are, to me, some of the final ones. You're seeing things happening already on these fronts, but they take time to fully implement. Once these start to come to fruition the end will definitely be in sight. Before the collapse, things like the banks "stealing" the depositor funds in Cypress are being "floated" as beta tests. if it can be pulled off in a small country, then they just scale it up for larger countries. So, 2017? Far enough out to be believable but it's nothing more than a guess.


Culex your right, with the China / Euro swap agreement, China / Great Britain swap agreement, both are set to kick in 2015-2016 timeframe, China just announced a 60 point restructuring plan for the economy, included in the top is a proper valuation of their currency - main goal stated by them "to battle the USD for top spot as the world's reserve currency", yet our law makers fiddle faddle around with a healthcare law that is so broken I doubt it will get fixed, and a constant fight that more debt is a good thing - aka debt ceiling, increased spending, raising revenue by taxation of the wealth and redistribution of wealth... And we have a uncontrolled federal reserve that believes we can (after 4+ years of trying) to spend our way out if our issues by flooding the markets (equities) with billions every month. 2016-2017 is my best guess.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

invision said:


> ..... yet our law makers fiddle-faddle around with a healthcare law that is so broken I doubt it will get fixed, and a constant fight that more debt is a good thing - ... And we have a uncontrolled federal reserve that believes we can (after 4+ years of trying) to spend our way out if our issues by flooding the markets (equities) with billions every month.


I am starting to think the AHA is "the distraction".

Notice how little debt/finance makes the news anymore....


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

LincTex said:


> I am starting to think the AHA is "the distraction".
> 
> Notice how little debt/finance makes the news anymore....


Debt/shutdown/etc. makes for good drama but that's all it is. They have to keep funding. They have to raise the limits. Failure to do so is to admit we're broke and watch it all come crashing down which none of them want to happen on their watch.

Slam the other guy, say how I'm fighting for you, then raise it up and kick the can. It's all they know. it's all they can do.


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## Aliaysonfire (Dec 18, 2012)

So what's this mean for the not economically savvy prepper? (not myself...for a "friend"...ya, lets go with that...)


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Aliaysonfire said:


> So what's this mean for the not economically savvy prepper? (not myself...for a "friend"...ya, lets go with that...)


Buy hard assets. Real estate and vehicles and such. If there is hyperinflation you pay it back with devalued dollars. If you have money buy currency not tied to the dollar such as gold and silver coins or foriegn currency not tied to the dollar but will most likely surge if the dollar devalues. I like the Iraqi dinar. Right now its exchange rate is 1000 dinar to 1 dollar. Iraq has lots and lots of oil and have recently signed agreements with royal dutch shell (owned by globalist elites) to develop oil fields and other production assets. I can totally see the dinar skyrocket as the dollar drops so its a hedge bet.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Aliaysonfire said:


> So what's this mean for the not economically savvy prepper? (not myself...for a "friend"...ya, lets go with that...)


For me it means buy stuff now. Be it clothing, axes, TP, silver, whatever... Haven't you seen where the prices, in USD, have been going lately? It seems every trip to the market something is costing more than yesterday and in the past year it is costing more faster. My example is my favorite brand of TP. A few years ago, maybe 3 or so, it cost $4.99 for a twelve pack, $3.99 on sale. today it is $7.99 ON SALE. I take stock of what I have on hand and what might be useful and buy, buy, buy. Spend those fiat dollars now, you will be saving 'money' in the future.

Last month I bought a new cooler, to have another one as a backup (2 is one and 1 is none!) I paid $35 for one two years ago, last month it was $50. What was gasoline when our illustrious leader took office... $1.84 or something under $2.00 a gallon? Look where it is now. Money sitting in the bank is losing purchasing power, at least for the little people like me who have very limited funds. For folks with ample funds that can invest it around there is still money to be made that will outpace inflation.

Look at what you regularly buy and will not spoil or expire if you hold onto it. Buy it now and next year when you pull it out you have outpaced inflation. Even take a chance on things you might not need now. Do you have a bow saw or a way to cut firewood? What happens if suddenly you need to keep warm or cook something? Do you have a water filtration system of any kind? What if the water stops flowing to your faucet, could you get drinking water somehow? What was the price of silver just a few years ago? What will happen to it once the real powers that be stop manipulating the price of it?

I don't mean to panic and over spend your resources, not at all! Just take stock of your needs and what you have on hand and go from there.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Predictions don't mean too much, they are just guesses. 
I was so sure it would happen in 2013. But I got a month left!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Aliaysonfire said:


> So what's this mean for the not economically savvy prepper? (not myself...for a "friend"...ya, lets go with that...)


What it means is that on your list of things that might go wrong, should be economic collapse. There are variations on what an economic collapse might look like ranging from the Great Depression to governmental or social collapse, such as portrayed in the 299 Days series (fiction, but popular right now).

The severity of any of these scenarios is worse than a hurricane, but less than nuclear war. The likelihood is your best guess.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Aliaysonfire said:


> So what's this mean for the not economically savvy prepper? (not myself...for a "friend"...ya, lets go with that...)


Lot of advice for a simple question.

First what do you prep for? Is it natural disaster or man made. Put economic collapse at the near top for man-made, since it is the most probable in the coming years.

Second, look at economic impact of hyperinflation and deflation. There is a debate which would hit if the economy took a fall where the US was removed from the worlds reserve currency. IMO a think hyperinflation would happen because the dollar would be devalued hard. Since we import so much gas/oil into our country, those would rise tremendously. For example, OPEC prices their oil in USD, but if they changed to say China' yuan or Great Britain's Sterling, the the US would be forced to acquire those dollars before making the purchase from OPEC. If the rate is 1:1.5 right now for USD to Sterling - think 1:5 or 1:8 as an example, so that gallon of gas would go from $3.xx to $15.xx. This would cause a huge impact to just-in-time delivery processes, the average grocery/super store like Wal-Mart has 3 days of goods on their shelves... Trucking companies would have immediate issues staying in business as the price of gas would be crushing. The cost of goods sold would skyrocket. So look at Argentina in late 90's early 00's and multiply the impact by the size of population comparison.

As to what to do, prep prep prep.
Water
Food
Shelter
Protection

And then spare money into gold/silver. While there are some on here that always say "ya can't eat good", while that is true, once the dust settles, we will restart some type of commerce, at first locally it will be through barter, but bartering will be difficult and we will quickly develop a new currency. Other countries may not be as effected as the US, which is a guess, however two things all countries put value on is gold and silver. So, if let's say the yuan takes over as the worlds reserve currency, we will be trading gold and silver for yuan.... Not having any could be bad, having some on hand should let you maintain some semblance of wealth locally and nationally.

Just my 2 cents....


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'm surprised at every month that goes by without a collapse. With the economy shrinking because of Obamacare, I don't know how we make it to 2015.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*2015*

Last week at the prepper store, I had some good conversations with a few different people. One of the conversations I had with one of the guys was about when SHTF. Personally, I never thought it was 12/12/12, but that was an interesting timeframe. This guy told me about a woman who is a history professor and is quite knowledgeable about history and also making biblical connections of times and events. She is also a prepper.

There are other people who have written about this. The date that Israel became a country again is based on something biblical. I apologize for not knowing those details.

He said that her synchronization of events and biblical predictions are that 2015 is the year when it is to get bad. 2014 is going to be the time to get it together if you never have before. The bible says that no one knows the time or date, but we all know it is a matter of time.

Not meaning to preach, just a perspective.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Padre said:


> One of the most common questions on these pages and in our minds is: "when will it happen." I think many of us are pretty certain that if things keep going the way they are going a economic collapse is in the tea leaves, but the powers at be keep on putting band-aids on the problem and pushing back the inevitable.
> 
> Well at least one Russian politician seems to think that 2017 is the year. (http://rt.com/business/russian-lawmaker-dollar-ban-663/)


And it begins...

China begins to stop buying dollars, trade oil in yuan...





If this move starts gaining traction with other countries, and there are signs that it has, but if we see other major trading partners back off the dollar, get your BOBs ready folks.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

LincTex said:


> I am starting to think the AHA is "the distraction".
> 
> Notice how little debt/finance makes the news anymore....


I agree, but I think its also an accelerant.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

many don't know that there are more dollars outside the USA than inside. It would certainly hurt to have them all returned.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

LincTex said:


> I am starting to think the AHA is "the distraction".
> 
> Notice how little debt/finance makes the news anymore....


That is because they 'solved' the debt issue, remember? The debt ceiling does not exist anymore, at least until January 2014. Why worry about it then, it is a non-issue! Finance. Heck, Ben is on the way out, fresh blood coming in and she will have a solution to our problems! 85 Billion/month is a joke anyway. Everyone knows you need to increase that because the 'trickle down theory' needs more money injected into it to really work. The more money you create, the more money in the system, the richer folks get! It is simple economics.

As far as the AHA, so it will cost a little more. Inflation is a good thing, haven't you been listening to the FED heads??? If we do not have inflation, prices AND wages will be static! How can you get ahead and make more money if you don't get regular wage hikes, adjusted for inflation of course. Do you really what to go back to the 50's where one blue collar wage earner could easily support a family? Heck no! It is better for the economy if BOTH parents slave away and put their children in day care then public indoctri...err... the public school system. Don't you listen to the MSM news outlets? This would all be perfectly clear if you did.

On the other hand... Without a new war or false flag event there really isn't anything else to broadcast other than the failure of AHA. If 'W' was still around he would say We have to make AHA a success or the terrorists win.

[This post was done in the sarcasm font]


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

This is not prophecy. This is not The End. This is ONLY the pulling away of the veil from the phony money system we're mastered by. Every time they do it, it eventually breaks down, and the people at the top make hay at a greater rate when it breaks down so they count on it breaking down. If someone was actually informed on history they'd have no problem finding the proof of my statements. God talks to those with ears to hear.

Think about this: remove the economic conditions from the equation and all the other things fall back into place. This is not The End. In fact, it's the beginning of a new currency system because the old has failed like always.



Padre said:


> Now don't get me wrong, I think you would have to be the dumbest man on earth to have solid knowledge about a dollar collapse and tell anyone else about it except in the strictest confidence. This is likely a politician grandstanding, but what is remarkable is that the possibility of a dollar collapse, and the decoupling of dollar's reserve status is now talked about semi-regularly,by foreign governments and politician if not in the mainstream media. And now we are starting to see governments trying to protect their citizens from the USD.


James Dines did it. He wrote a book calling the year of the Dollar collapse 30 yrs prior to it happening. He called the exact year.

Now if it's a politician he's either lying or priming the pump to desensitize people to it when it happens. IOWs, he's FOC (like most of them), or he's actually part of the power structure and they're using him to announce it so you follow someone when the time comes, and preferably in their minds you follow him/them.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

Heres MY Prediction. Im thinkin 2nd or 3rd Quarter 2016.
A LARGE Govt Agency will close its doors in Sept 2015, Ive seen the Budget.
This closure will take 1 Trillion Dollars out of the Economy. I was "Briefed on this Budget in April of 2010. That's before Obummer Care.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Resto said:


> Heres MY Prediction. Im thinkin 2nd or 3rd Quarter 2016.
> A LARGE Govt Agency will close its doors in Sept 2015, Ive seen the Budget.
> This closure will take 1 Trillion Dollars out of the Economy. I was "Briefed on this Budget in April of 2010.


Care to Share with us?


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Resto said:


> Heres MY Prediction. Im thinkin 2nd or 3rd Quarter 2016. A LARGE Govt Agency will close its doors in Sept 2015, Ive seen the Budget. This closure will take 1 Trillion Dollars out of the Economy. I was "Briefed on this Budget in April of 2010. That's before Obummer Care.


What LincTex said... You don't post like that with out telling


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

A large government agency with a trillion dollar budget? Just a guess but I might start flying again in a couple years.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

Resto said:


> Heres MY Prediction. Im thinkin 2nd or 3rd Quarter 2016.
> A LARGE Govt Agency will close its doors in Sept 2015, Ive seen the Budget.
> This closure will take 1 Trillion Dollars out of the Economy. I was "Briefed on this Budget in April of 2010. That's before Obummer Care.


If you got beans, spill em!! If not make up wild predictions. Fun either way!


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

China Announces That It Is Going To Stop Stockpiling U.S. Dollars
By Michael Snyder, on November 21st, 2013

China just dropped an absolute bombshell, but it was almost entirely ignored by the mainstream media in the United States. The central bank of China has decided that it is "no longer in China's favor to accumulate foreign-exchange reserves". During the third quarter of 2013, China's foreign-exchange reserves were valued at approximately $3.66 trillion. And of course the biggest chunk of that was made up of U.S. dollars. For years, China has been accumulating dollars and working hard to keep the value of the dollar up and the value of the yuan down. One of the goals has been to make Chinese products less expensive in the international marketplace. But now China has announced that the time has come for it to stop stockpiling U.S. dollars. And if that does indeed turn out to be the case, than many U.S. analysts are suggesting that China could also soon stop buying any more U.S. debt. Needless to say, all of this would be very bad for the United States.

For years, China has been systematically propping up the value of the U.S. dollar and keeping the value of the yuan artificially low. This has resulted in a massive flood of super cheap products from across the Pacific that U.S. consumers have been eagerly gobbling up.

For example, have you ever gone into a dollar store and wondered how anyone could possibly make a profit by making those products and selling them for just one dollar?

Well, the truth is that when you flip those products over you will find that almost all of them have been made outside of the United States. In fact, the words "made in China" are probably the most common words in your entire household if you are anything like the typical American.

Thanks to the massively unbalanced trade that we have had with China, tens of thousands of our businesses, millions of our jobs and trillions of our dollars have left this country and gone over to China.

And now China has apparently decided that there is not much gutting of our economy left to do and that it is time to let the dollar collapse. As I mentioned above, China has announced that it is going to stop stockpiling foreign-exchange reserves...

The People's Bank of China said the country does not benefit any more from increases in its foreign-currency holdings, adding to signs policy makers will rein in dollar purchases that limit the yuan's appreciation.

"It's no longer in China's favor to accumulate foreign-exchange reserves," Yi Gang, a deputy governor at the central bank, said in a speech organized by China Economists 50 Forum at Tsinghua University yesterday. The monetary authority will "basically" end normal intervention in the currency market and broaden the yuan's daily trading range, Governor Zhou Xiaochuan wrote in an article in a guidebook explaining reforms outlined last week following a Communist Party meeting. Neither Yi nor Zhou gave a timeframe for any changes.
It isn't going to happen overnight, but the value of the U.S. dollar is going to start to go down, and all of that cheap stuff that you are used to buying at Wal-Mart and the dollar store is going to become a lot more expensive.

But of even more importance is what this latest move by China could mean for U.S. government debt. As most Americans have heard, we are heavily dependent on foreign nations such as China lending us money. Right now, China owns nearly 1.3 trillion dollars of our debt. Unfortunately, as CNBC is noting, if China is going to quit stockpiling our dollars than it is likely that they will stop stockpiling our debt as well...

Analysts see this as the PBoC hinting that it will let its currency fluctuate, without intervention, thus negating the need for holding large reserves of the dollar. And if the dollar is no longer needed, then it could look to curb its purchases of dollar-denominated assets like U.S. Treasurys.

"If they are looking to reduce these purchases going forward then, yes, you'd have to look at who the marginal buyer would be," Richard McGuire, a senior rate strategist at Rabobank told CNBC in an interview.

"Together, with the Federal Reserve tapering its bond purchases, it has the potential to add to the bearish long-term outlook on U.S. Treasurys."
So who is going to buy all of our debt?

That is a very good question.

If the Federal Reserve starts tapering bond purchases and China quits buying our debt, who is going to fill the void?

If there is significantly less demand for government bonds, that will cause interest rates to rise dramatically. And if interest rates rise dramatically from where they are now, that will set off the kind of nightmare scenario that I keep talking about.

In a previous article entitled "How China Can Cause The Death Of The Dollar And The Entire U.S. Financial System", I described how China could single-handedly cause immense devastation to the U.S. economy.

China accounts for more global trade that anyone else does, and they also own more of our debt than any other nation does. If China starts dumping our dollars and our debt, much of the rest of the planet would likely follow suit and we would be in for a world of hurt.

And just this week there was another major announcement which indicates that China is getting ready to make a major move against the U.S. dollar. According to Reuters, crude oil futures may soon be priced in yuan on the Shanghai Futures Exchange...

The Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) may price its crude oil futures contract in yuan and use medium sour crude as its benchmark, its chairman said on Thursday, adding that the bourse is speeding up preparatory work to secure regulatory approvals.

China, which overtook the United States as the world's top oil importer in September, hopes the contract will become a benchmark in Asia and has said it would allow foreign investors to trade in the contract without setting up a local subsidiary.
If that actually happens, that will be absolutely huge.

China is the number one importer of oil in the world, and it was only a matter of time before they started to openly challenge the petrodollar.

But even I didn't think that we would see anything like this so quickly.

The world is changing, and most Americans have absolutely no idea what this is going to mean for them. As demand for the U.S. dollar and U.S. debt goes down, the things that we buy at the store will cost a lot more, our standard of living will go down and it will become a lot more expensive for everyone (including the U.S. government) to borrow money.

Unfortunately, there isn't much that can be done about any of this at this point. When it comes to economics, China has been playing chess while the United States has been playing checkers. And now decades of very, very foolish decisions are starting to catch up with us.

The false prosperity that most Americans are enjoying today will soon start disappearing, and most of them will have no idea why it is happening.

The years ahead are going to be very challenging, and so I hope that you are getting ready for them.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...t-it-is-going-to-stop-stockpiling-u-s-dollars


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I too saw where China is thinking about lowering its foreign cash reserves. It likely has around a trillion US dollars or more. About the same as what it holds in US bonds. It could easily dump the dollar currency gradually and it would never hurt anything. The bonds would be much more of a problem.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...n-china-s-favor-to-boost-record-reserves.html


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

Padre said:


> ...I think everyone sees the end of dollar dominance, the problem is they don't understand the benefits to our economy and way of life afforded by reserve status and the crisis the loss of it will precipitate.


What do you think the end of the dollar dominance will mean?



Tweto said:


> I have made plans to be in a position to allow some quick reaction to whatever happens with the dollar. I'm not confident of the path the dollar will be taking in the next few years, so I'm leaving options open.


Care to share some of your plans? I'm assuming you can share your preps without rendering them ineffective.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

Caribou said:


> A large government agency with a trillion dollar budget? Just a guess but I might start flying again in a couple years.


No not a Govt Agency with a Trillion Dollar Budget. A Govt Agency that supports nearly a Trillion Dollars of other Industries. The USPS will close its doors in Sept 2015. Then UPS and FedEx will go, they both rely on the USPS for last mile delivery in many places. Other Industries rely on the USPS, Think about it.

PS. I was trying to avoid a "Hatch Act" Violation, Oh Well:sssh:


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

So I should place my orders within the next year?


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Tacitus said:


> What do you think the end of the dollar dominance will mean?
> 
> Care to share some of your plans? I'm assuming you can share your preps without rendering them ineffective.


What I'm doing is moving money to accounts that allow me to just write a check or to allow me to access it within hours instead of a week.

Here's what I didn't say, I will be buying more PM's no matter what may happen, Inflation, Deflation, or Devaluation.

If Inflation, start buying anything that I can use over the next few years. (Inflation has happened in food, Deflation has happened to hardware items already)

If deflation, don't buy anything, because products could get cheaper.

If devaluation, (not sure at this point).

I didn't expand on my posting because what I'm doing my not be of any value to most members.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Another domino falls: in China you say...well yesterday US debt held by China inched north to 1.3trillion (slightly less than the US govs annual revenues). So we better pray for China because in the global ponzi scheme if our enemies go down they are taking us down with them. Global finance today is the new M.A.D.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2014/01/19/mega-default-in-china-scheduled-for-january-31/

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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Tweto said:


> What I'm doing is moving money to accounts that allow me to just write a check or to allow me to access it within hours instead of a week.
> 
> Here's what I didn't say, I will be buying more PM's no matter what may happen, Inflation, Deflation, or Devaluation.
> 
> ...


How are you defining devaluation, isn't that the same as inflation.

There is no mechanism for deflation at present in our economy. Deflation refers to the value of money NOT the cost of products. Better methods of manufacture will always make mass produced things cheaper (including food BTW) so while many things may have reduced in price the USD relative to other currencies has not increased in value. The last Depression was deflationary because people took money out of the system in the panic causing a liquidity crisis, causing deflation (really just a higher valuation of liquid assets). A large part of this was the need to print physical notes for the majority of transactions.

With keystroke money creation, and wire transfers, I don't see how the former situation could ever happen again.

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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Padre said:


> How are you defining devaluation, isn't that the same as inflation.
> 
> There is no mechanism for deflation at present in our economy. Deflation refers to the value of money NOT the cost of products. Better methods of manufacture will always make mass produced things cheaper (including food BTW) so while many things may have reduced in price the USD relative to other currencies has not increased in value. The last Depression was deflationary because people took money out of the system in the panic causing a liquidity crisis, causing deflation (really just a higher valuation of liquid assets). A large part of this was the need to print physical notes for the majority of transactions.
> 
> ...


This is a pretty decent explanation, but I think deflation is quite possible in today's economy. Essentially you can get deflation any time the velocity of money slows abruptly. We haven't seen it this time because the Fed has been increasing the money supply in an effort to offset the reduced velocity.

All we would need to get deflation is for there to be a slowdown in velocity and an inadequate, or failed, response from the Fed.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> I have wondered about this. Even if your taxes on your property changed and went up or down, I would think being able to pay them in advance, if you have the money, would have some merit, relative to difficult times.
> 
> Does anyone know how far in advance you can pay them?


You can not pay in advance. The next cycles rates have not set or the "value" of your property.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> This is a pretty decent explanation, but I think deflation is quite possible in today's economy. Essentially you can get deflation any time the velocity of money slows abruptly. We haven't seen it this time because the Fed has been increasing the money supply in an effort to offset the reduced velocity.
> 
> All we would need to get deflation is for there to be a slowdown in velocity and an inadequate, or failed, response from the Fed.


But so long as the fed exists illiquidity will not be allowed and velocity will be maintained...the Federal reserve system today essentially guarantees against on old fashion depression but guarantees a much worse hyperinflationary depression.

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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> You can not pay in advance. The next cycles rates have not set or the "value" of your property.


Is that true where you live? Here we have a maximum possible increase of 2.25% but even without adjusting for this I can't imagine the town would not take a prepayment in any amount, total owed or not. Its like a bank account for you that pays no interest (like most of them) and a credit line for them that costs nothing.

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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Padre said:


> But so long as the fed exists illiquidity will not be allowed and velocity will be maintained...the Federal reserve system today essentially guarantees against on old fashion depression but guarantees a much worse hyperinflationary depression.
> 
> Sent from my XT1080 using Survival Forum mobile app


You're assuming that the Fed continues with their policy bias against deflation. That is probably a good assumption, but we all know how assumptions tend to prove incorrect at the least convenient time.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I pray it takes 2-3 years for the shtf. I need that time to increase my stores! 

It is very difficult to find US made products here.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> You're assuming that the Fed continues with their policy bias against deflation. That is probably a good assumption, but we all know how assumptions tend to prove incorrect at the least convenient time.


Theoretically I agree...but the damage is done. There is so much liquidity out there that the moment the Fed tries to pull back everyone else will look for a way to capitalize (literally). I think a momentary deflationary squeeze ironically leads to hyperinflation, when people realize that we are swimming in the deep end of liquidity--i.e. too much liquid not enough assets to buy with them.



dixiemama said:


> I pray it takes 2-3 years for the shtf. I need that time to increase my stores!
> 
> It is very difficult to find US made products here.


I think we all agree that more time is desirable, sadly it will come when it comes, and the most important prep to have is a clear mind that will do what needs to be done.


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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

The dollar HAS to collapse because they keep printing funny money like there’s no tomorrow. It’s a moral disease. Can’t be cured. You can only remove the sick from the printing press but that’s not happening any time soon.

So reality exists and the dollar will collapse. 

When? I don’t know. But it’s coming. I would put it sooner than later. I’m preparing for that.

Buy silver and gold. Buy stuff you can use or barter. Buy plenty of the things that will disappear as technology takes a huge hit. Ammo, for instance. Supplies for reloading. Medical supplies. The drugs you need. The drugs you might need.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> The dollar HAS to collapse because they keep printing funny money like there's no tomorrow. It's a moral disease. Can't be cured. You can only remove the sick from the printing press but that's not happening any time soon.
> 
> So reality exists and the dollar will collapse.
> 
> ...


Preps are a smart purchase even if you are wrong about the economy. Most of what you acquire as preps are consumable items and you'll use them eventually.


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

On the plus side canned fruit is down in price at Walmart. LOL


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

dixiemama said:


> I pray it takes 2-3 years for the shtf. I need that time to increase my stores!
> 
> It is very difficult to find US made products here.


Pray that it will take awhile, but you'd better act as if it's tomorrow. A nation cannot run this kind of indebtedness without huge consequences. Don't remember the source, might have been from a Daily Reckoning (Agora Financial) newsletter I got awhile back, but it had a possible target date of July1,2014 for things to turn upside down in our fiat monetary system. I tried to find the email but I must have deleted it. Thing is that bad troubles are coming, probably should have happened a long time back, but as has been shown the FED has so far been able to put off the inevitable by Quantitative Easing, selling itself bonds, Tapering and whatever they can. Kind of like the old saying of throwing everything but the kitchen sink at a problem. Thing is, the longer things are put off, the worse it will be when it happens.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I'd say the Dollar collapsed already. They keep propping it up so it can walk on it's own again. It won't last forever.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Two more banksters dead, apparent suicides. That brings the number to four in a week.... http://business.financialpost.com/2...arre-deaths-in-the-financial-world-this-week/

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## Zeev_Zwaard (Jan 27, 2010)

dixiemama said:


> I pray it takes 2-3 years for the shtf. I need that time to increase my stores!
> 
> It is very difficult to find US made products here.


You have to see prepping as a parachute.

You may not have the best model in the world.

You may be planning on getting a better one.

But the one on your back has to be ready to be used at a moments notice.

If at first you don't succeed at survival then survival wasn't for you.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> Two more banksters dead, apparent suicides. That brings the number to four in a week....


I am somewhat surprised this is not getting more attention. But then again maybe it is nothing. :dunno:


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

So the Fed has issued new rules REQUIRING the biggest companies to keep more assets in the US to prevent the need for "bailouts"....

As a result insiders are reporting that Deuschte bank plans to reduce US assets by 25%

Anyone think the fact that we won't give back their gold has something to do with this?

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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Padre said:


> Anyone think the fact that we won't give back their gold has something to do with this?


Just a smidge, I'm sure.

Why don't we hear any of this in the media?  (rhetorical question)


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

biobacon said:


> On the plus side canned fruit is down in price at Walmart. LOL


The places where walmart sources its food often scares me. It seems a lot comes from China.


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

LincTex said:


> The places where walmart sources its food often scares me. It seems a lot comes from China.


:ditto: & the Dollar Stores here...read your labels...China YIKES :eyebulge:


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Padre said:


> So the Fed has issued new rules REQUIRING the biggest companies to keep more assets in the US to prevent the need for "bailouts"....
> 
> As a result insiders are reporting that Deuschte bank plans to reduce US assets by 25%
> 
> ...


This is probably in connection with H.R.2847 which I believe was passed in 2007 and the final implementation is to be July1 this year. There is some feeling that our government may not have all the gold supposedly set in storage for these countries. The Federal Reserve refuses to be audited and I've heard more than a few stories that the gold in Fort Knox is gone. This wouldn't surprise me at all considering all of the treasonous acts that are being done on nearly a daily basis by our so called "leaders". americansabroad.org has a good article on the H.R.2847 FATCA bill and why it should be repealed, it fits in with what Padre posted, if not repealed it could be the stake in the heart of the US dollar and the beginning of a major SHTF situation.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

Like NWO currency, whatever denomination they choose. Euro, Amero, Globero, whatever.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

BlueShoe said:


> I'd say the Dollar collapsed already. They keep propping it up so it can walk on it's own again. It won't last forever.


This propping up process is called Keynesian Economics and it's the system that the Federal Reserve uses. The idea is that if you throw (print) enough money at a problem it will "naturally" go away. What they don't tell you is that the more money is printed and issued, it's like adding water to your dinner soup, it may look and smell like soup but it no longer has the taste or nourishment to it.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Viking said:


> What they don't tell you is that the more money is printed and issued, it's like adding water to your dinner soup, it may look and smell like soup but it no longer has the taste or nourishment to it.


I like that analogy - I might have to borrow it.  The way I've described it to the kids is that it's like a pizza pie - you can keep cutting it up into more and more pieces, but the pieces keep getting smaller and aren't worth much.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

goshengirl said:


> I like that analogy - I might have to borrow it.  The way I've described it to the kids is that it's like a pizza pie - you can keep cutting it up into more and more pieces, but the pieces keep getting smaller and aren't worth much.


That's alright, I borrowed it from G. Edward Griffin, the author of "The Creature From Jekyll Island" The story of how the Federal Reserve came about. I think that the analogy came from a cassette tape made by him that talks about the Federal Reserves' printing dollars way beyond anything of value to back them, thus the thinning of the soup analogy. Under a Constitutional money system there would be no dollars printed beyond the equal value of gold to back them.


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

Padre said:


> I DO NOT want to get into a debate about debt but I would point out all of us should have the presence of mind to TAKE ADVANTAGE of inflation, if and when it happens, long term debts are usually FIXED, so if there is hyper-inflation and we are still getting paid wages (inflating daily) we all should think to quickly use that cash to pay off debts (while there is someone still working to receive payment and give you a reciept).
> 
> *Along with this, if you have EXTRA money that is worthless for purchasing useful things why not pay for something less than useful, like government (i.e. pre-paying property taxes).*


Brilliant! I have been going over and thru expenses (thankfully this past year we've eliminated nearly all of them) to get 'extra' money saved up for just this occasion. I was wondering if it would work this way, glad to see that I was thinking down the right path. 
If the money is worth less theoretically why not give it to govt? Makes sense to me.

I also read one of your other post further down the thread - the US Dollar no longer being the World's currency. After having done some research on that as well it seems pretty scary. I think there are some things that we as modern Americans have taken for granted and the dollar no longer in top spot is going to be a BIG shock. Really F!^$ing BIG!


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