# If Your'e Not Scared......Your'e Not Prepared.....



## Backwoods (Oct 27, 2008)

For the last few days, I've spent more time than I usually do looking inward. I started doing this when I realized I was, well, scared.

Not for myself so much. For one thing, I've lived my life. I've been where I'm going. Built my life, my home and my business. I've raised my kids, and I think I've given them the knowledge and skills they will need to survive anything I could survive.

But have I done everything I could to prevent the coming disasters from happening? Have I done all I could to help my friends and teammates? What else could I have done to warn people about the disasters that I knew would happen one day?

Have I done my part, or have I let all of us down?

I know......... hindsight is always 20/20, but I'm just not in a good place right now. I really hope this feeling will pass, and soon........

I went shopping at Wal-Mart the other day, like I do every week. I ended up spending considerably more than I normally do. A couple extra boxes of pistol ammo, a couple more cans of air rifle pellets, another can of Break Free, another half dozen cans of beef stew, and another box of canning lids.

On the way home I stopped at the county dump to get rid of some trash. I noticed someone had thrown away an old TV. I liberated the power cord. That will make at least half a dozen serviceable small-game snares. (I already have a bunch stored away in a couple of ammo cans.)

Every day I feel more and more like the storm is coming......And soon.....

Anyway...... yeah, I guess I'm as ready as I can be....... 

I'm just not too happy right now............

Oh well..........

Onward and upward................


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Don't beat yourself up. I, too, have tried to edge friends and family towards gaining an understanding of how fragile our current life styles are now and how important it is to get prepared for harsh times ahead. Some think I'm a little too obsessed - "Don't worry, be happy!" they say. Some others call me 'Rambo'. I almost have to pull my wife along kicking and screaming! Well, I would rather be the ant than the grasshopper.

I may be a little obsessed. But, its only because I feel that time is short. We can't change what's about to occur. Only He can do that, and I think He is now ready for us to learn a lesson.


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## pmabma (Dec 4, 2008)

I agree with both of you, my friends think I,m nuts but thats ok,my children and my grandchildren will have something to eat and be safe, hopefully.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Its better to be scared now and learning what you can do - training your mind and body to use skills that have been lost since 1920 than to be scared later when the zombie-hordes are over-running your area.

Note: Zombie-horde is the name that I call all the sheep who believe that everything is ok and figure that nothing will change, grocery-stores will continue to provide food to us, restaurants will still give us hot food for a good price, electricity will continue to power the over-sized TV's in every room of the house and gas-stations will continue putting fuel in our vehicles.


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## Diamond_Ranch (Oct 21, 2008)

You do your best and that's all that can be expected of you. You can't let being scared take over or you will lose the battle be it starts. Being prepared doesn't mean you've stopped living your life. It just makes it easier knowing that you and your family will get through whatever comes. 

We all worry about the future, so you're not alone in that area.


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## endurance (Nov 26, 2008)

It's interesting. I've been out of town and out of touch for a few days as the GF and I went to Vegas to watch her cousin in the rodeo (he's a roper). Vegas is la-la land and sometimes it's good to take a few days and let go of all of this worrying and prepping. With that said, Vegas is like taking pain meds after surgery. A few days is necessary, but after that and you've got a problem. 

When I returned, the three forums I follow all had similar posts from folks feeling a bit more of an edge in the last few days. I didn't feel it at all in la-la land, but then again, I didn't feel much besides full and buzzed most of the week. Sometimes I've had the same sense of urgency that crunch-time is here, but being in this for the long haul, it's something I've learned to balance, most of the time. While I don't see any harm in taking advantage of the mood when it hits you, it needs to be balanced in the bigger picture. The reality is, the economy sucks and you want to keep cash reserves comfortably high right now, not accrew more debt. Sensible planned purchases make sense if they move you toward your long-term goals, but spending out of fear can actually increase your risk and exposure to the economic hard times to come.

I'm in a situation where I'd like to change where I live in the next 8-12 months for a number of reasons, so that leaves me wondering if I should not buy the PV system I was planning on getting or purchase it in a different way. If I were to buy it today, I could get a larger system for less money by taking advantage of local utility rebates, but it must stay with the house if I move. On the other hand, if I purchased it on my own, without the rebates, I'd be able to take it with me. On the one hand, it might raise my resale value, I'd have it now rather than next year, which insulates me from the fact things could get significantly worse in the coming months, on the other, the market could continue to tank and I'd be throwing good money after bad...

Ultimately, I think we all have to continue our lives while balancing the fact that we've accepted the coming change that others continue to deny. I have a friend who knows in his heart that armageden and the rapture will come soon and what that means for him and his family, but he doesn't store a pound of rice for that day because he believes that it's in God's hands. I've tried to make the argument that God has told him to prepare by reading Revelations, but he doesn't do anything. For some people, you can't do anything.


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## Big B (Oct 28, 2008)

My family calls me paranoid.....
I call it ultra vigilant.....

Do all that you can do, trust God and relax.....
Rest in it....

I remember in the Viet Nam war, when we would get hit, lets say a major attack, this strange, slow motion kinds of peace would come over me. Everything was real clear, and I could see it all happinin, I would move efficiently, make decisions, make the right calls, keep moving and never lock up...
I called it smooth under fire, couldn't control it, just happened. Other troops said they experienced the same thing.

Afterwards, I would sit down and begin to shake.

It just works out- providence, yeah!!!


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## alfee2012 (Dec 14, 2008)

*YES........There is alot coming*

Please check out my website................

http://2012shelteredtechnologies.synthasite.com/


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Backwoods said:


> For the last few days, I've spent more time than I usually do looking inward. I started doing this when I realized I was, well, scared.
> 
> Not for myself so much. For one thing, I've lived my life. I've been where I'm going. Built my life, my home and my business. I've raised my kids, and I think I've given them the knowledge and skills they will need to survive anything I could survive.
> 
> ...


*
It's PARANOIA!* (see signature line!)
The 'Big Business & Cristian Fanatical Right Wing' is spending *BILLIONS* in advertising to make you feel that way!

*End of the world mongers LOVE IT when you are SCARED!
You CONSUME!*
(It's Y2K all over again!)

End of the world religions love it when you are scared,
YOU GIVE POWER OVER YOUR LIFE AND YOUR RESOURCES TO THEM!

Buying into the crap *KEEPS YOU CONSUMING* what they are selling!
-------------------------------------

NOW!
If you had spent your time getting to know and working with your neighbors,
Learning how to garden and maybe some animal husbandry,
Leaning how to preserve your garden and animal protein,
*And DOING SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR ADDICTION TO OIL*,
You wouldn't have time to be seeing all the crap that's making you paranoid!

Working with your neighbors makes for some real comfort in hard times.

Working with your hands, especially towards a SUSTAINABLE LIFESTYLE,
Spending the time you normally listen to 'Lush Dimbulb' and the A-Moral A-Holes... Spend that time with kids, grandkids, neighbors, ect. and you will feel MUCH better!

DO NOT Spend your money at 'Made In China'-Mart!
Wal-Mart EXPORTS roughly $25 BILLION to China in a year!

*That's 25 BILLION DOLLARS! That should be spent on US made products!*

I don't know what else to tell you! It's a darn shame you can find time to piddle around on the internet, but you can't find time to work a garden or put up solar panels, or help your neighbors with winterizing homes so they use less petroleum...


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Even the name of this thread is PARANOIA!

"If Your'e Not Scared......Your'e Not Prepared....."

You think we are all too stupid to know there are problems in the world?
----------------------------

What do you mean 'I'm not Prepared' because I'm not scared?
*I'm not scared because I was raised correctly! *

*To work hard, spend smart, support my neighbors, and put things back for 'Lean' times!*
------------------------------

I live in a bend in a river I've hunted, fished and trapped all my life.

I'm a machinist/gunsmith by trade, and I have about all the metal working tools I'll ever need to produce ANYTHING!
I have two big generators, two small generators, and I can rewind or rework discarded car alternators to make everything from welders to windmills...

I have a home that is mostly solar powered.
My home's heat comes from outdoor 'Furnace' that will burn anything combustible, including wood and corn!.
(did I mention I live in the CORN BELT!)

I mostly drive a battery powered vehicle that charges it's self from solar cells,

I have a water catchment system, plus a deep limestone filtered well.

I have a HUGE septic system that feeds a large garden,
A big ole' compost pile so I don't have to buy chemical fertilizers,
and I've grown most of my own food and raised my own livestock for several years!

My house is paid for, so are my vehicles.
I have 'Bone Yard' vehicles for spare parts to my current vehicles if I need them...

I don't 'Want' for anything but the occasional 'Starbucks' coffee and 'New' rifle once in a while...
Those aren't 'necessities', just luxuries I really don't need but treat myself too...

I have a fair retirement account, but people around here don't retire, they just work less then drop dead!

And if push comes to shove, I have a shed dedicated to reloading supplies, and I buy once fired brass by the 2,500 lots, so I'm Never going to run out of ammo!

If you haven't been paying attention, 
My field craft is pretty darn good and I'm an active hunter/fisherman/forager!
My extra wild mushrooms sold for $75 a pound this year!
And I'm STILL putting up the temporarily frozen strawberries and black berries, and I've got Walnuts, Chestnuts, Hickory nuts & Pecans drying everywhere in the house and garage right now...

I've got enough home canned food for at least 2 years most of the time, but since the garden did so well this summer, I've probably got more than 2 years worth right now...
AND,
Just in case you aren't a farm kid, 
(and I don't think for a minute you are!)
It's butchering season, finally cold enough, so the freezers are full and I'm canning as fast as I can right now!

*This is just typical country life around here,
SO, 
Mister "YOU AREN'T PREPARED",

...Tell me again what I'm missing?.... *
-----------------------------------

*WHAT YOU ARE MISSING...
THE 'SUSTAINABLE LIVING' Part!

And the 'BUY AMERICAN MADE FROM YOUR NEIGHBORS' Part!

The 'WEAN YOURSELF FROM PETROLEUM' Part!

The 'INVEST IN YOUR NEIGHBORS AND FAMILY, NOT THE BANKS' Part!*
.......................


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## Homer_Simpson (Oct 19, 2008)

It's not a matter of being scared, it's a matter of taking the steps to make sure you are ready for what might come your way. Ask yourself what you are trying to prepare for, TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it) a local disaster, something in-between or all of the above. 

As I type this I'm looking at a winter storm heading my way, with this storm we are looking at high winds, freezing rain, snow, cold temps, could get pretty nasty. Well I've been through this situation before and am ready to spend the next 3 - 4 days at home if I need to, power or not, I can heat the parts of my house that I need to heat, I can cook food, I can obtain water, even if not from my well, so if I lose power I won't be that bad off. 

Look at your environment, do you live in a area that could be a target of terrorists? Then you need to adjust your preps to reflect that. 

There is a difference between being scared and being worried, when you are scared you may not think clearly, when you are worried you will tend to take the steps you need so that you are no longer worried. Don't let panic set in, this is when you make mistakes.


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## OFG (Oct 23, 2008)

Hey JeepHammer 

"My extra wild mushrooms sold for $75 a pound this year!"


What are you selling for 75.00 a pound?


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

I know what Backwoods is talking about, but really if you are scared its a good thing because it will motivate you to do something about it. A lot of the country seems to be oblivious to the possibility of societal collapse because in their locality everything is pretty much OK, but if you live near a city you may not feel quite so well off because there are so many people who are so defendant on the fragile system we have. They are not in any way self sufficient, and I doubt if most of them even have 72 hours of food and water on hand. If the fragile system breaks down due to war, terrorism, economic collapse, or all three; then you have a tremendous problem.


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## skip (Dec 13, 2008)

Backwoods said:


> For the last few days, I've spent more time than I usually do looking inward. I started doing this when I realized I was, well, scared.
> Have I done my part, or have I let all of us down?
> 
> I know......... hindsight is always 20/20, but I'm just not in a good place right now. I really hope this feeling will pass, and soon........
> ...


I'm not saying I disagree with you,but scared is something you don't want to be. Scared will get you killed in a hurry.

When I was an active firefighter, we were required to take the Incident Command Systems class. We went thru' several scenarios every week from car and plane accidents to massive tornadoes and other natural disasters. Each newbie was judged on how well he thought on his feet. You have to realize that it isn't just about your life, it's your comrades and the victim's life at stake, too.

But it also taught you to roll with the punches. Just about the time you thought you saw the light at the end of the tunnel, the instructor would throw a curveball at ya.

I guess what I'm trying to say is look at where you live. Do you live in the city or burbs? If things break down to the point of wide-spread riots and hunger, is it defensible? If not, can it be made so? If not, do you have a place you can go within 1/2 tank of gas from you? do you have routes and alternate routes mapped out? If not, maybe it's time to think about moving.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

*Fear informs you something is wrong!*

If you're not scared,then you're not paying attention.

India and Pakistan could start launching nukes and blanket the area in fallout.

Some Fundie terrorist could set off a dirty bomb here.

People are angry and afraid,the bailouts are making things worse *AND OUR IGNORANT AMERICAN BRETHERIN HAVE ELECTED A SOCIALIST PRESIDENT AT THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME....YOU SHEEPLE ARE GOING TO GET YOUR CHANGE ALL RIGHT....*

Ammo is going out of sight,so is storable food and gold and its only going to get worse!
Never mind the corporate media and the idiots on talk radio,LOOK AROUND!
Get what you can,while you can,a dollar spent today on preparedness could be worth a fortune very soon,or even your life!


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## skip (Dec 13, 2008)

Magus said:


> If you're not scared,then you're not paying attention.
> 
> India and Pakistan could start launching nukes and blanket the area in fallout.
> 
> ...


Being scared does you or anyone no good. When you let panic sit in, you stop thinking logically.

If there is a nuclear war, would life be worth living? I don't think so. I can not stop it, so why sit and get myself worked up? And if a radical sits off a dirty bomb, it's probably going to be somewhere away from I live.

I have food stored for about two years, plus seeds to plant more. I have my pigs and rabbits for meat. I have ammo to hunt, and I have fishing supplies. I have a defensible home in an area not likely to see trouble from the outside.

Am I concerned about some things? Yes! But being scared isn't going to solve anything. When I am concerned about something, I try to think logically about it, and come up with the best solution, and then let the chips fall where they may


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

OFG said:


> Hey JeepHammer
> "My extra wild mushrooms sold for $75 a pound this year!"
> What are you selling for 75.00 a pound?


WHAT,
Morell mostly.

WHY,
Because we had TONS of mushrooms this year and the going auction price was about $75 a pound for the common ones I can find... 
(I'm not very good at identifying most kinds, so I'm sure I'm missing out on some real folding money...
That's why I was so interested in what you had to say about mushrooms in an earlier thread!)

Last year, you could have got $150 easy because there simply wasn't hardly any!
I heard of some people getting $225 a pound last year, and you would think there would be a limit to what people would pay,
But as I understand it, some mushrooms sell for more an ounce than gold!

I have rotting logs behind my compost pile, and I've already spread the spores out early this year so some should show up again next spring!
Growing them has just GOT to be easier than hunting them with 50 year old eyes!


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## Homer_Simpson (Oct 19, 2008)

skip said:


> Being scared does you or anyone no good. When you let panic sit in, you stop thinking logically.


Very well put


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Magus said:


> If you're not scared,then you're not paying attention.


Am paying attention, just educated enough to know what is 'Possible' in that _'Suspend all reason and see it my crazy way'_ kind of thing going on,
OR what is actually going to happen...



> India and Pakistan could start launching nukes and blanket the area in fallout.


Chernobyl set more radioactive release into the atmosphere that 1,500 Hiroshima size nuclear bombs, and the fallout/radiation is STILL being tracked around the world...

The US detonated and average of 45 above ground devices A YEAR during the late 40's and early 50's!
What do you suppose happened to all that radiation and fallout?

*As far as fallout goes, The US has released More, and Larger amounts of fallout than all other countries combined!
That's correct!*
Russia was smart enough to do most of it's testing under ground, but we popped them in the atmosphere like fire crackers for the first 10 years or so!
AND,
The US has detonated more weapons, both above ground and below ground than ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED!

I don't see ANY American even noticing it!
You 'EOTW' guys should be living in tunnels eating each other by now from that...
-----------------------

AND,
Even India/Pakistan are smart enough to know that if one of them launches, they will be a glass covered parking lot by the next morning.
(Which wouldn't particularly be a bad thing for the US!)

Same rule applies with ANYONE holding nuclear weapons.
That's why no one has been crazy enough to use one since the US did in 1945.
(Remember, we are the ONLY



> Some Fundie terrorist could set off a dirty bomb here.


These guys are having a hard time raising commercial grade explosives for their attacks!
They are using fertilizer bombs!

Where in the world do you think they are going to get high grade nuclear waste to make this 'Dirty Bomb'?

Besides, no matter what the 'Bureau of Homeland Scare Tatics' says.
Any former military man with NBC training can tell you....
'Dirty Bomb' won't kill many people at all, they aren't an effective killing tool, that's why the military didn't peruse them as a weapon...

So called 'Dirty Bombs' are '*AREA DENIAL TOOLS'*.
People will flee the area, scrub down, and be fine.

The explosive required to spread the radioactive materials will be relatively small, 
Much smaller than the Oklahoma City truck bomb, so not many people will die in the blast it's self..

Flee, scrub down, go home and have coffee!

Radioactive particles BY DEFINITION are HEAVY!
They aren't going very far either!
Whiteness the nuclear testing ranges in the south west...
If 'Dirty' material could get very far, or was as destructive as currently advertised, we would all already be dead....
-------------

The* AREA* is what will be contaminated, and there will be BILLIONS of dollars to clean things up...
And much of that will fall on private insurance companies!

SO!
Since it will cost the 'Fat Cats' money, they want YOU to be hyper vigilant to protect THEIR PROPERTY...



> People are angry and afraid,the bailouts are making things worse *AND OUR IGNORANT AMERICAN BRETHERIN HAVE ELECTED A SOCIALIST PRESIDENT AT THE WORST POSSIBLE TIME....YOU SHEEPLE ARE GOING TO GET YOUR CHANGE ALL RIGHT....*


More alarmist propaganda...
The alarmists said Y2K would kill us all,
The alarmists said Islamic 'Terrorists' would be raping our dead babies when 9/11 happened, Funny none of them PREDICTED 9/11 before hand!
The alarmists said Bird Flu would kill us all.
The alarmists said West Nile Virus would kill us all.
The alarmists said fluoride in the water would make us zombies.
The alarmists said there would be riots and roving packs of murdering rapists in the streets if Obama got elected, Funny, not even a broken window!
The only injury reported was a reporter fell over a curb in Chicago trying to rush the stage when Obama came out for his acceptance speech...

Now the alarmists are warning of 'Dirty Bombs' and 'Socialists Takeover'/Troops already in the streets for the swearing in takeover...

If you want to know exactly what's NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, listen to the alarmists and do the exact opposite!

AND,


> ...the bailouts are making things worse ...


This is, of course, exactly backwards thinking...
And any 6th grade history or social studies student can testify to that!

During the great depression, the government did EXACTLY what you suggest, they tightened the money supply, and it made things not only 10 times worse, but it made the depression last twice as long as it should have!

When a recession hit, One idiot REPUBLICAN president took us off the gold standard, so financing dried up and inflation ran rampant...

Most recently, our Alzheimer's president clamped down on financing during the 80's while spending WILD amounts through the government and jacking up taxes like crazy during a recession...
That led to 25% unemployment and a decade long recession...

AND,
Unless you think you are smarter than Allen Greenspan, Warren Buffett, and the other business & finance grand slam all star team Obama has assembled to handle the economy, you would do well to SHUT UP AND PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEWS!

Turn your radio away from Lush Dimbulb, Pill O'donky and pay attention to what's ACTUALLY HAPPENING!

Just the mention of having Allen Greenspan on the panel made the stock market jump 300 points!
When they announced Warren buffet was going to join the blue ribbon panel, the stocks jumped another 300 points!

At least act like you are somewhat knowledgable in recent history you lived through, or in your own country's events!....



> Ammo is going out of sight,so is storable food and gold and its only going to get worse!


Funny, I was at the Gun Shop yesterday, and the shelves are stocked, and the owner said things were actually moving kind of slow...
The only ammo that had been moving was muzzle loading supplies (muzzle loading deer season here) and the 'Commie Gun Junk' as he put it.

Must be a commie gun owner thing where Lush Dimbulb is pissing on their foreheads and telling them it's raining!



> Never mind the corporate media and the idiots on talk radio,LOOK AROUND!


Yup, that's the one thing you have said that makes ANY sense...
"Talk Radio Idiots"...
Remember, they make their money keeping you CONSUMING THEIR PRODUCT AND SELLING THEIR SPONSORS PRODUCTS!



> Get what you can,while you can,a dollar spent today on preparedness could be worth a fortune very soon,or even your life!


Chicken Little...
The sky is FALLING!
The sky is FALLING!
-----------------------------

What's actually happening is what has happened for the past few republican presidential cycles...

They start wars, jack up military spending,
(This time they didn't even pretend to take bids, they just gave it all to Dick Chaneys company, Haliburton/Bechtel!)

Make billions for big business on the tax payers backs...

And then a middle of the road Democrat comes along and has to try and clean up the mess...

For Nixon/Ford it was Carter,
For Regan/Bush I it was Clinton,
For Bush II (shrub) it's Obama,

Now, lets have a look at the presidents from Nixon on...
Nixon was a burglar, liar and war criminal.
(Watergate burglary and burglary of the DNC offices, lying to congress and American public, 'Secret' bombings/war operations in Cambodia, Thailand, Laos)

Ford made a deal to pardon Nixon before Nixon resigned, breaking federal conspiracy laws....
The list goes on, but you guys don't want to hear about your beloved republican presidents sticking it in your butts and picking your pockets while loosing your jobs for you!
---------------------

Anyway, the BEST THING that can happen is...
1. We *FINALLY* pry the village idiot out of the white house and Haliburton stops running the country.

2. The Government guarantees financing so the economy can get started again.

3. Congress splits into two parties...
One to lay down new regulation about banking and financing laws,
And the second starts laying down criminal inditements for Bush, Chaney, Haliburton, Rumsfeld, ect.
Just clean house!

The top brass at all the failed financial institutions they had to bail out.
Send several of them to prison, and this won't happen for a while again!

-----------------------------------------------


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

I do believe Dean does not want politics on the forum, but since you brought it up, I do believe that 750 Billion, approved by Dems and Repubs, should be enough to garantee financing. If it isn't then I think we are deep doo doo, don't you?


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

If you prepare for trouble,you will never have any.
Teddy Rosevelt.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

I feel less scared every time I add something to my survival stash. When it's full I'll have a rack full of confidence.


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## Backwoods (Oct 27, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.

Let me clarify here. When I say I'm scared it's not meant in the sense of my fear of personal danger or injury. I've "Seen The Elephant" a couple of times in my life and I made my peice with God a long time ago so my mortality is not an issue with me.

No..........I'm scared for my children and theirs and what kind of world they are about to inherit. Mine are as well prepared as I can make them but I'm not sure anything can prepare them for what's coming in the next years.

Time will tell................


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Tim said:


> I do believe Dean does not want politics on the forum, but since you brought it up, I do believe that 750 Billion, approved by Dems and Repubs, should be enough to garantee financing. If it isn't then I think we are deep doo doo, don't you?


I didn't bring it up, I responded to a knee jerk reaction from an un-informed rant from another user.

And, YES, I do think we have some serious problems.
We aren't the 'ONLY KIDS ON THE BLOCK ANYMORE' when it comes to production and economy.

Pretty much, From WWII on, we were the ONLY Kids on the block when it came to heavy industry.
War pretty much knocked out all competition from Japan, Europe, ect.
And the Soviet Bloc countries were competition in our markets.
Things started to equalize in late 70's/Early 80's, and we should have seen the signs and pulled things in then, but didn't...

Now we have to deal with a fully adult manufacturing machine world wide, and the ONLY way to do that is be leaner and meaner, which our fat, bloated unions and management top heavy industries aren't up to the task...

Quality is up, but that doesn't mean much if you don't have ANY MARKET for your goods and your prices are so inflated no one in your markets can afford your products...
-------------------------

I really don't care what these guys *THINK* if in fact they do at some point...

I just get tired of the same regurgitated non-sense the talk radio types pump out to alarm people,
ESPECIALLY when it's sold as fact and diametrically opposed to the truth.

AS A MATTER OF HISTORY, not politics...
One depression, and three recessions later you would think they would figure out that TIGHTENING the money supply does nothing but cause INFLATION, and DEVALUES THE DOLLAR.

It's going to take about 3 TRILLION directly injected into the economy to jump start it again.
(About 3 trillion is what the middle class has lost in the past 3 years because of the stock market and economy.
That's where I get that figure from.)

We are down another 100,000 jobs last month, that 570,000 in just over a quarter.
Without financing available to manufacturing in this country, we are going to have REAL PROBLEMS real soon...

AS A MATTER OF RECORD,
Clinton directed Allen Greenspan to loosen lending, drop interest rates, and the Economy took off like greased lightening.
Not only recovering, but the lending rate had to be raised several times to compensate for the GROWTH of the economy, and we were running a budget SURPLUS before GWB took office...

Interim rates are at 1% now, so they can't go much lower at all, the only way to kick start the economy now is for the Government to DIRECTLY INJECT Trillions into Infrastructure (Which we need anyway) and that money will kick start SMALL BUSINESS... Building roads, Rebuilding bridges, Dams, Ect.
------------------------------------------

Anyway, I'm not really worried,
Allen Greenspan, Warren Buffet and an all star, Blue Ribbon team are on the job now, and they will kick Haliburton out of the white house and get things rolling again.

*I say we start by squeezing the $9+ Billion that Haliburton can't account for out of them and their US assets! Just 'Disappeared'!
That $9 billion would go pretty far towards the Jump Start!*

It will be SLOW recovery, not like after the first Gulf War, but it's still a 'Doable' project! 
And I'm truly encouraged we are getting some real finance legends to help with things!


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Backwoods said:


> Thanks for the replies.
> 
> Let me clarify here. When I say I'm scared it's not meant in the sense of my fear of personal danger or injury. I've "Seen The Elephant" a couple of times in my life and I made my peice with God a long time ago so my mortality is not an issue with me.
> 
> ...


SO!
Instead of being scared and buying foreign junk and praying for a 'God' to _do something FOR YOU..._

Why don't you get off your kiester and DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF!

Then hand down a sense of stewardship down to your kids, and maybe give them the tools to help clean up some of this mess!
-----------------------------

Don't buy still 'Survival' gear made in 'China' from 'Wal-Mart'!

Buy Well Made stuff from your friends and neighbors so the money stays in the area, or at least our country!
---------------------------------

Don't buy all those 'Commie' and EuroTrash guns and ammo!

Buy some solar panels and an inverter!
Teach your self and kids how to WIRE UP renewable energy sources!
-------------------------------------

Don't buy a 'Penis Extension' SUV or 'Penis Substitute' Foreign made sports car!

Buy a conservative sized electric vehicle or Hybrid.
Take care of it instead of trading it in every three or four years.
-------------------------------------

Don't buy a giant 'McMansion' that is under insulated, virtually made of toxins and petroleum products, and takes a fortune in upkeep and maintenance.

Rebuild or build a REASONABLE size house.
Make sure it's as energy efficient as it can be.
Don't spend $100 on movies and restruant, spend $100 on insulation, or thermal windows, or passive solar projects...
------------------------------

Don't spend money and effort at a 'Gym'...

Grow a garden! Nothing like a garden to keep you working out!
----------------------------------

The list goes on and on, and I know you will ignore all of it, but here it is, never the less!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

JeepHammer said:


> SO!
> Instead of being scared and buying foreign junk and praying for a 'God' to _do something FOR YOU..._
> 
> Why don't you get off your kiester and DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF!
> ...


Jeep makes a few good points,I'm not big on waiting on some "god"to haul me out of trouble,faith helps some,hurts others.you know where you fit in hopefully.

I don't have kids,don't want any,not in this insane world.

WallyWorld blows.but having said that,some people can't afford top of the line equipment or ammunition,so the commie stuff might be the difference between having sub standard equipment and NONE AT ALL!and none=dead.
Give us poor slobs on fixed incomes a break Jeep!Besides,some of that Euro gear is better than ours!Can't speak for the Chicom stuff,I avoid it like it carries plague[AND IT MIGHT!]

Price any solar panels lately?the ones I can afford are chineese and they are crap!I have a wood stove and I know how to make Methane for fuel.its where I'm at and unless I waste a buck and win a lottery,its where I'll stay.

Pen1s car?LOL!
No seriously bud,if you can afford it and it runs,who cares who made it?My Honda gets great gas mileage and its over ten years old!But....I hella miss my old Buick,I could actually work on it.

What's this "house"of which ye speak?I live in a trailer that's older than I am.

Well I gotta agree on the garden concept,but add a woodpile to the equation and a hydraulic wood splitter,I'd use a regular hand maul,but my back is shot.

In Closing Jeep,I like your replies,but not everyone can afford top of the line equipment,give us lower crust a break dude!If you have the means and don't get good tack,well....you get what you deserve!but if its all you can do,what do you want us to do?rob an army base?LOL I can think of more pleasant ways to die.


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## Backwoods (Oct 27, 2008)

Jeephammer..........As usual your'e missing the point. I'll explain it SLOWER so you can understand.

I've raised my kids, taught them every thing I know about being self sufficent and prepared and I think I've given them the knowledge and skills they will need to survive anything I could survive. They are more than ready with the tools and strength as well as faith in a higher power that will get them through anything. 

All of this stuff you rave on about "Commie Trash", "Euro Guns" etc......is irevelent to the conversation. You prepare the way you see fit and I'll do the way I see fit. It may come as a suprise to you but not everyone needs your advice on what to buy, where to shop or how to plan or prep.

As for "Penis Extension" SUV's, (McMansion's???) and the other stuff. Well......Since none of that concerns me I'll have to leave it to you.

As for my comment about being "Scared"....Well........I stand by it. Right now anyone in this country after this last election that's not a little scared is not paying attention. Our freedoms and way of life are under attack and it makes me a little concerened.

Lastly..............

I'm prepared, my family is prepared, my team is prepared, I feel good, I have few debts, I not only will survive, I will thrive and never undermine my beliefs.

So they can do what they want, I will fight, win lose or draw I am past caring what they do to me.


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## OFG (Oct 23, 2008)

I pick Morels every year... $75.00 a pound is good money. You are taking dried right? If your talking fresh and you can get that kind of money for them, I'll send you pounds and pounds of them. I should be picking my first morels in about 4 months. And the season should be on in five. (weather permitting. )










This was the result of a one night campout. I usually eat my fill of the fresh ones and dry or sautee and freeze the rest. I think I have almost a pound of dried morels left from last season. They are great for soup and stews this time of year when its frigid out.

So if you have buyers that will pay that much for fresh product I'm sure we can work out a deal this spring. Usually about 150.00 a pound for dried is pretty common in the off season.

The ones in the pictures above are naturals (not burn morels) Most people pick in burns (previous season forest fires) in this area. I start with riparian morels from the cottonwoods along waterway, then move up in elevation as the season progresses.

Fun stuff!



JeepHammer said:


> WHAT,
> Morell mostly.
> 
> WHY,
> ...


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

Put it this way, I sleep fine when the wind blows...
There is an old axiom about a farmer trying to hire a handy man...
Comes from "Poor Richards Almanac" from Ben Franklin

The farmer has problems until he runs across a guy that simply says,
"I sleep fine when the wind blows.",

He hires the guy, and he works out well, but one night a large storm moves in, so the farmer goes out to wake up the handy man to 'Batten' everything down.

When the guy simply says, 
"I sleep fine when the wind blows.", rolls over, and goes back to sleep.

The farmer is incredulous! 
He can't believe this crazy man won't get up to secure the things on the farm!

Farmer goes out to the farm yard...
The stock is in the barn, doors secured,
Laundry and harness tack is put away instead of hanging on the hitch rail or fences or lines,
Garden crops are staked and twined against the wind,
Chickens are in the coop with the doors closed,

There is nothing for the farmer left to do....

_(The 'MORAL' of the story coming up...)_
Then it dawns on him,
The 'Crazy' farm hand can sleep when the wind blows because he as PREPARED for the storms in life,
And doesn't worry about the ones he can't prepare for!
---------------------------
---------------------------

Used solar panels are cheap.
How I got started was to buy two older panels that had 'Silvered' and were replaced.
They still put out at new panel specifications, but were about $150 for the pair instead of $500 each...

Panels are getting replaced all the time, and 'Off Spec' or 'Factory Seconds' are being blown out the back doors all the time.
Nothing wrong with them operationally, they just don't 'LOOK' like first run quality, so you get them for about 20% of retail...

Doesn't matter what kind of home you live in...
There is a more energy efficient way to manage it!
In some cases, like a 35 year old 'Mobile Home', that might be to build a house as you can afford to...
I have a friend that took about 10 or 15 years to build his house, but he did most of the work himself as he had time and money, and now he owns his home free and clear,
AND,
He got EXACTLY what he wanted...

Anyone can afford to switch to a more efficient furnace,
Or add insulation to the floors, walls or ceiling.
There is no argument for NOT doing that...

*DON'T JUST DO SOMETHING!
STAND THERE AND COMPLAIN!* 
(THAT WILL ACCOMPLISH A LOT...)


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

OFG said:


> I pick Morels every year... $75.00 a pound is good money. You are taking dried right? If your talking fresh and you can get that kind of money for them, I'll send you pounds and pounds of them. I should be picking my first morels in about 4 months. And the season should be on in five. (weather permitting. )
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!
I have rarely found that many in TWO YEARS of hunting!

Yup, late in the season, you dry them down some 
(but not all the way out, you want to sell _some_ of the moisture!)
And sell them at local farm auctions...

Last year, fresh mushrooms were selling for $50 a pound early on, then later $75 lb. !!!
At the end of the season, I heard of $150 to $225 a pound for plain old wild mushrooms!
There just weren't any, and people were getting stupid about things!

Looks like I got a mushroom guide book for christmas.
(don't know for sure, but found a receipt on the table for one!)
That might help with my knowledge base...


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

*I just had a conversation with a good friend o mine, and he makes a good point...*

I seem to be trying to talk sense to people that nothing in their lives is working...

They are scared, but not able to break their habits to do something about it...

There is nothing I can do about mental illness issues.
If you can't get a grip on the problem, 
You will never see what the answer is!

Or the way he put it,
"When you try to teach a pig to sing,
It only wastes your time and annoys the pig."

I see his point!

I sleep well at night.
I'll help anyone that actually wants help.
That should be good enough!


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## littlechickenranchHen (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm not scared, but I am preparing. I am not scared of the future. I can't really do anything to change the events of whatever may transpire. I can prepare by putting things by and more importantly, acquiring knowledge to do things for myself and working to perfect the skills I will need to be self-sufficient. Not just read about it, but actually practice, practice, practice. I believe that the more prepared we become, the less fear we will have of the unknown.


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## mitchshrader (Jan 3, 2009)

anybody hollers at folks while he's preachin' is communicating sub-optimally. 

almost nobody really listens after they've been hollered at for a while. 

i'm a sharp tongued curmudgeon and know something about sub-optimal communication paradigms. 

i've got 3 ex wives. 

think i didn't PAY for my education? even an idiot can learn something after a FEW tries at it.. 

mostly folks appreciate clear answers to their questions, but almost nobody wants answers to questions they havn't gotten to. it's worth remembering, unless you just like to holler.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Mitch - Well said!


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## skip (Dec 13, 2008)

mitchshrader said:


> anybody hollers at folks while he's preachin' is communicating sub-optimally.
> 
> almost nobody really listens after they've been hollered at for a while.
> 
> ...


I must be a slow learner! I'm still on my 1st wife going on 33 years!


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

That's a good sturdy wife!


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## CapnRick (Jan 23, 2009)

*Yep... it's a mess. I live in Argentina...*

...where there has already been a meltdown, with LIGHTS OUT except for a few hours a day, laws strictly controlling gun ownership, currency devaluation that is still 88 percent less valuable than 2000 pre-crisis value, roving and looting bands of thugs led by ex-police... you get the picture.

While it is natural to feel a bit concerned over the sad state of the world, you can avoid being depressed by working harder than you ever have in your life to seek to protect your family, as several posters have suggested.

The problem a lot of us face is what I call the victim syndrome... a sense that you feel helpless and guilty because forces beyond your control have or may soon render you into victim status. The Ingrid Betancourt lady who was recently rescued from the FARC terrorists in Colombia said she felt the hardest thing to overcome was her feelings of guilt at not being able to continue with her responsibilities due to circumstances she could not control. She feels that her biggest challenge was to FORGIVE herself. So must we all forgive ourselves for not knowing for sure we have done everything we can to prepare for the uncertainties that lie ahead.

For those of you who would like to check on your preparations, there are various web sites where an Argentine architect and college professor has posted his real crisis/Lights Out experiences, including running gun battles with armed thugs. Do a search for FerFal.

He describes his process for trying to craft an answer for the question about what he would do differently from what he had done. It takes hours to read, so I will capsulize some of it here for your consideration.
. Food. More food should have been available. Service stations work on electricity, so trucks are not available to move food to markets due to fuel availability problems. It is hard to come up with a recommendation for the length of time to plan for food to not be available. FerFal seemed to feel he could have done better.
. Money. Contrary to oft-repeated opinion on many forums, money is very useful in a crisis. It is probable that by having 2 -3 different currencies available in a carefully hidden horde, a lot of problems can be avoided. The supply of silver dollars and dimes is limited. Due to FerFal's recommendation, I have been buying scrap solid gold items when I can find them available without a severe markup over the spot gold price. You can find spot market prices for gold on the web; also gold test kits, so you can be sure the 10k/14k/18k/22k junk solid gold you are buying is being bought at the proper rate.
. Everything else... is going to depend on your particular circumstance. Please read FerFal's experiences and recommendations... it won't hurt and it may help you to think of something important.

In conclusion, I do not know FerFal and cannot swear that he has not borrowed from the experiences of others. If he did... so what? The guy gives the impression he has been there and done that. I find it useful. My local cop friends confirm much of what he has to say. I have found no evidence to the effect that things did NOT happen to him and his family as described.

Also, if any of you have any concerns about a topic I have written about for military training manuals/programs and lectured about... how to avoid being abducted/attacked in an urban environment and how to act after being abducted... feel free to send me a pm and I'll be happy to volunteer some free advice/chat.

Relax... if you are worried that you may not have done everything you should do to prepare for the unknown... you haven't. And it's OK. Nobody else has, either. When SHTF, we will all have to band together and help one another, just like the early American settlers did.

suerte/good luck Capn Rick


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

CApnrick - Nice post. Thanks for adding to the discussion. 
We've still got it easy here in North America.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Personally I may have worded the title of the post:
If you're not scared........ You *Are* Prepared.
Our economy is a shambles and it's not going to be a quick fix. If people can't see this, they have their heads in the sand. We've seen this coming since 2007 and have been making preparations to be less reliant on the "network" We now have chickens and goats for food and milk, and 4400sf of garden. We have a barter network in place for fruits, berries, and grain. We can and dry everything we don't use fresh, and water can be hand pumped from the well if need be. 
Even with all the preps, we are still concerned about what is coming down the road. Some of our friends think we're a little "out there" and the government will take care of everything. We quietly disagree. That's the part that concerns us the most because guess who they're going to come to as things spiral further down? 
We would rather _not_ go back to "The Walton's" era, but we _will_ be better off than the majority of the country if this goes from severe recession to a depression, which IMHO is all but inevitable.
That's why I offer the alternative title: If you're not scared.... You are prepared.


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

I AM scared, and I am not prepared, not yet, not like I want to be. I have begun storing some food and water, but I live in a small apt. I am concerned more for my married daughter and my 2 grandsons, they live in a large city, near Toronto. I live in a small city where its quiet and safe. They dont have any thoughts to store food. If I mention it to my daughter she gets upset becuase she just feels frustrated that life is so hard, and I am just giving her one more thing to worry about. But to me, it wont be so scary IF we are prepared. so I am trying to store up some food, and will continue to keep storing it because some day will come when my family will be in need, and I will have something to give them. I have been trying to talk them into renting or buying a house outside of the city where we could at least keep chickens or something. They are trying to save up a downpayment and when they do buy, I will be livign with them. so my food storage will also be theirs.
but they dont contribute financially cause they think I am a bit nuts. 
but right now, if the stores closed up for a month, i would be fine. maybe even longer. I know that isnt much but its more than most Canadians have on hand. I cant find anyone even remotely interested it seems, in storing food and water.
I was wondering about renting a storage to keep food storage in as I get more of it. but not sure if they are heatedin winter or if the food woudl freeze, like the #10 cans. anyway on reading posts here its good tosee other canadians, I thought i was all alone up here wanting to survive.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

MaryV said:


> I was wondering about renting a storage to keep food storage in as I get more of it. but not sure if they are heated in winter or if the food would freeze, like the #10 cans. anyway on reading posts here its good to see other Canadians, I thought i was all alone up here wanting to survive.


First - you are not alone in this .. but - you are in a fringe group who can see that things are going downhill really fast and the brakes are out. Unless a miracle happens in the next couple of weeks, the downhill slide will continue till the whole financial world comes to a crashing halt.

I believe that the majority of our problems are money related and that going back to a barter-system would be beneficial. The problem with that is the government - they want their share (GST, PST, etc) of everything. That is the reason why barter systems are so persecuted.

An old friend of mine is a business owner. He believes in the barter system. His business takes anything - cash, credit and trade. Trade products for service. Trade service for product. Trade cash for service or product. He doesn't care as long as the trade is equal in his mind.

In another thread here on PS, I suggested to other Canadians to join up with MEC (Mountain Equipment Co-op) and purchase their food supplies of "Ready to eat" meals. These meals are around $6 and take very little space to store, very easy to prepare and are nutritionally sound. Depending on your energy requirements, one meal could be everything that you need for the whole day. The meals are designed for back-packers to spend lots of time hiking in the woods.

Canning takes space - dehydrating and storing in zip-lock baggies does not waste space. Being in an apartment, using a dehydrator makes more sense than canning or buying canned goods. A couple handfuls of dried apples will give you as much energy as eating a can of chili. Having water in the re-fillable bottles on a cooler will last you a long time in cases when water supplies are shut-down (think Walkerton). Rotate your water stocks and keep the water stocks out of direct sunlight (algae growth).

We are here to help you get ready - the more people that do, the less stress for everyone involved. It just makes sense.


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

thanks. Its so neat to see others at least trying to do something, becuase you and I can see the writing on the wall...I mean you cant expect the big fishing trawlers to keep scooping every living thing out of the oceans and expect ther stil to be fish to catch. You can destroy 99% of salmon spawning streams and expect there to still be salmon to catch. You cant pay farmers to NOT GROW CROPS and expect there will still be food stores in this nation. You cant punish and prohibit small farming the way they do and still expect us to take care of ourselves. I used to raise meat rabbits and I sold the youngsters at a depot that went out of business because of huge factory rabbit farms controlling all the production so I could only raise for myself and all of us small raisers lost our market. I had a friend who used to raise chickens but she was only allowed to buy 300 chicks and not allowed to sell them (but she did sell them to friends and neighbours without BIGBROTHER knowing) and she did find ways to have more than 300. I mean what is with the govt control? Since when do they OWN US?
Now I am 59 and I STILL see the wriiting on the wall and even at my age I intend to prepare as much as I am able, which isnt a lot at this point.
about MEC, I am a member, I have been buying up MH dinners, I tried a couple so I would know what to expect, and what I liked. It seems expensive but there isnt much other option, better to buy it now when it can be gotten, rather than try to buy it later to find there isnt any...So I have a container I am slowly filling with MH pkgs meals. I also am just starting to get a collection of white buckets, intending to store in them foods such as oatmeal, powdered milk, flour, pasta, rice. I bought an excaliber dehydrator and I am doing up veggies and storing them in airtight bottles for now, considering more long term options. I have found 2 places in Canada that sell food, one is Dri-Harvest Foods - Freeze-Dried and Dehydrated Foods, they sell mostly dehydrated food in #10 cans, i havent bought from them yet. there is also www.bauly.com, they sell freezedried foods, looks like vacuumpacked in seethrough pkging. prices are high. our only other option as canadians is to order from the american companies that do ship to Canada, but I am not sure what customs willl do to me if I try...lol.
I like the products at disasternecessities.com i think it is, they do ship to Canada.
anyway, even as an old lady in a small apt and with limited income, I intend to do all I can to store food and water. Twice I was in my apt when the water was off, once for several days our entire city was shut down for water cause of contamination, and there I was with NO WATER, and another time as well for a whole day, but that time I had learned, and I had water stored.
one day, 3 days, thats nothing in comparison if something serious happened and water was off for a week or longer. 
one of my concerns now is, I would be ok for a while as long as there is electric, but if the power is off? I would be hard presed to find a means to heat up water for my MH food meals. oh, the lady downstairs has a bbq...hmmm, well, anyway, I need to store some ready to eat meals as well.
I dont feel so silly now, buying up MH foods from MEC, knowing others are doing the same...thanks for the encouragement.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

My wife and I did a taste test of the various dehydrated foods from MEC. I used to work there back in the day. I have to say the Alpine brand was the best tasting but paled in comparison to regular food. We've stocked normal canned and dried food. It does not last as long - about three years or so per can - but we enjoy eating it much more. 

I've lived off of camp food for up to a week at a time and it does start to drive you crazy after a while. After a week of rations real food tastes like the best meal you ever had. Even if it's just bacon and eggs. I suggest having a stash of more normal food to supplement your dried stuff. It makes the eating far more enjoyable.


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## MaryV (Jan 31, 2009)

thats good advice, thanks! I was thinking that if the power was off for days or even weeks, I would need canned foods to eat that could be eaten out of the can. tuna, salmon, sardines, meal foods like ravioli etc, and vegetables and fruits. you know, canned food does stay good for a while, long enough for my purposes at my age. I make my own bread, but without power I couldnt do that. with a campfire you can make bannock bread but well, I cant do that on my balcony, lol. I dont mind eating MH foods, I have liked them so far, but I know what you mean about having to live on that for a long time. and since I am an old lady, lol, one pkg of beef stew for me made 4 meals, eaten with bread and an apple. 
its important for me to be able to survive so to be able to help my family, who are NOT preparing. they will need me one day.


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## Largecar (Jan 30, 2009)

Backwoods said:


> For the last few days, I've spent more time than I usually do looking inward. I started doing this when I realized I was, well, scared.
> 
> Not for myself so much. For one thing, I've lived my life. I've been where I'm going. Built my life, my home and my business. I've raised my kids, and I think I've given them the knowledge and skills they will need to survive anything I could survive.
> 
> ...


Backwoods I applaud your honesty in posting how you were, and are feeling. You said what was bugging you outloud, that's the first step to figuring out why you don't feel as happy as you think you should. I have to see things in black and white to truly "get it". Mama (my wife) is a psychotherapist and she has these great worksheets that makes a lot of sense. She has been there and done that and got her education (through real experience). Whether its the blues or something deeper you arent alone. We all face times of doubt, what ifs and I should haves. In our library for survival we have a great book that might help a lot of people. It's plain talk and easy to understand. The title is 
"Getting your life Back" by Jesse Wright, Monica Ramirez Basco. Remember we all are human and need to talk with others sometimes...it's not weakness, it's your strength.


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