# Gear whores..A rant.



## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

Recently I went to a well known store that caters to backpackers and sells gear for such. The particular store I visited had a seminar on backpacking gear. Whoa!!!!!!!!

I went to glean some ideas for gear for our bugout bags. To quote George Gobel “ Have you felt that the world was a tuxedo and you were a pair of brown boots?”. As I pulled into the parking lot with my one ton Dodge Ram I was surrounded by econo-boxes that were driven by the “earth friendly” types that advertised such on their bumpers. Me with NRA stickers and a SCI sticker that stated “Hunt with your kids, not for them”. After parking the battleship I decided to finish my cigar on a bench outside of the store. I got the impression that they all expected to die from second hand smoke within the hour.

Now on to my rant. “Through hiking” is a religion that you dare not challenge. I will admit that I had the right to remain silent, but not the ability or the smarts. These people will spend in excess of a thousand dollars to be the lightest person on the trail. The speaker indicated that he only wears silk briefs because the are the lightest available. If I spent 55 bucks on a pair of under britches I certainly would not admit to it.

They suggested a trail tarp that was $325.00. A hammock that was close to $195.00. Special light weight pants ($135), special ultra light hiking shoes, special rain gear, anything that is one ounce lighter than anything else. They stressed the lightest items possible rather than the most durable. Can you see where this is going?

I think that there were some of these people that counted the “precise number of grains of rice packed for an excursion”. I will never get the time back that I wasted at this seminar. When they found out that I have a small cast iron pan for cornbread they almost stopped breathing. When I asked about the types of knives, hatchets, saws, tents and sleeping pads they utilized I thought that a lynching would begin.

They do not burn forest resources except is designated “open fire areas” so a large knife is too heavy and unneeded. A hatchet is immoral and a saw is a travesty. I did not want to mention concealed weapons lest I would be tarred and feathered.

When the speaker asked about backpacks I remained silent. My ALICE pack weighs more empty than theirs do loaded out to the max. I am very happy that these people exist. They promote development of new products and technologies. Long term survivability of these folks in a bug out situation is iffy at best. 

Some “Preppers” are almost as bad. You need a Granfors-Bruks or Whetterlings hatchet or axe. Only an abc-xyz knife. A special folding saw, the Holy Grail of back packs…..etc. If I purchased only the best of the best for my bug out bag there would be no money left over for preps. I have fallen into this trap a time or two. Now I will sit back and think first.

I will not spend hundreds of dollars on a special axe, knife, backpack and the list goes on for items that are not used every day. We have informally tested many of the “Cream of the crop” tools with people that have them. My sons 40 year old hand-me-down Estwing hatchet is only two swings behind his buddies Whetterling and one swing behind my Husqvarna. I still utilize my 1960’s era Ka-Bar and issued ALICE pack. They might be old and clunky but they work. I have a buddy that owns a three-hundred dollar custom knife that I am afraid to hold, let alone use.

I will go “top drawer” for items that I use every day (season dependent) but I am too cheap (Politically Correct for poor) to buy the best of every thing. I still split wood with an unknown manufacturers double bit axe. The axe is older than I am. My splitting wedges are old railroad spikes. We can make do with almost anything if we have the smarts.

RANT IS NOW OVER,

Tugs


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

Even every group you can find the crazies, or sorry more "optimized extreme sub groups".

The people you describe are walking through the woods with the old boy scout motto "Take only pictures, leave only foot prints." 

They go ultra light since it sounds cool. They don't need it and will probally never use it. Or if they do it'll be for strolls to their cabin.

The rest of us use what we have. Yesterday I was walking around the woods with an old school bag with a 2 liter bottle of soda, a 2 little bottle of water (recycled soda bottle), plus lunch for me and my girlfriend. Your new friends would probably have a heart attack if they saw that or where asked to carry it.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

All the super hikers would be the first to die if SHTF, cause how could they ever learn to do anything without the best super light and of course expensive equipment. at least the scavengers would get some spendy equipment.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

*Kudos, Tugboat!*

You've painted a vivid picture of your experience in my mind, with humor to boot. That's talent.
I'd never given much thought to how 'The Other Side' approaches gear.
Let's all be brutally honest with ourselves...Most are like me, and have at least one very useful China item in their preps.
Heck, I've even got a trusted item that's so cheap it says, "MAD IN TAIWAN".


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

pawpaw said:


> You've painted a vivid picture of your experience in my mind, with humor to boot. That's talent.
> I'd never given much thought to how 'The Other Side' approaches gear.
> Let's all be brutally honest with ourselves...Most are like me, and have at least one very useful China item in their preps.
> Heck, I've even got a trusted item that's so cheap it says, "MAD IN TAIWAN".


U sav mony not using vowls.


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## pixieduster (Mar 28, 2012)

Love it. I'm laughing so hard from picturing your expression when hearing "ultralite" over 50 times. As for me I like working hard, keeps me in shape. I learn what tools to buy from getting cheap ones and working my azz off trying to get it to work, then go for something different (more expensive) to see if I'm gunna break that one also.


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## Ration-AL (Apr 18, 2012)

no offense, but what did you expect the experience to be like ? you go to a big box store outdoor type place for a lecture on gear and don't expect to get sold everything under then sun ? i completely agree about the types at the store around you , i see them all the time , there is very little i actually hate in life but i hate these people, every year i have to go deeper into the wilderness to get away from the gucci gear whores and the trail/mountain/cliff tickers , the ones who enjoy the outdoors but enjoy bragging about what they've done more .....annoying...

that said , from your post you obviously don't know what through hiking is or what the guys who are actually good at it do otherwise you wouldn't be saying this , those guys are the marathoners of hiking , covering 50 and 60 miles a day over rough terrain thus the need for being lite , that said like anything in life you got people who are just tools , flat out , you're experience at the shop and impressions are probably the same as the public has about us from the preppers show , those people on the show are not what most preppers are like , like the morons at some rei gear talk are not what real through hikers are like, think about it , if they knew anything why would they be there ? 

I'm sorry that experience sucked , but honestly from where you went, what do you expect? your better off trying to find someone who actually does this regularly , that isn't trying to sell you anything and talking to them .....:beercheer:


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

That reminds me of a story. An old indian is selling pottery by the road. One pot is 5 bucks. Another is 50. They both look similar. One guy ask the indian what's the difference. He replies, "Some people want to pay 5. Some want to pay 50." So tuggy, you were hanging with the 50 crowd. Welcome back to the 5 crowd.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

mojo4 said:


> That reminds me of a story. An old indian is selling pottery by the road. One pot is 5 bucks. Another is 50. They both look similar. One guy ask the indian what's the difference. He replies, "Some people want to pay 5. Some want to pay 50." So tuggy, you were hanging with the 50 crowd. Welcome back to the 5 crowd.


I have always been in the $5 crowd. I had no idea this lecture would be about "through hiking" it only said back packing equipment review. I did expect the snake-oil salesman, however, I hoped to be able to find some items that could be useful. Lesson learned.

Tugs


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I'm loving this rant!

Cheer up, after the SHTF all their gear will be free and all you'll have to do is air out the dead body smell IF you even want it.I'd put my flea market/army surplus kit up against their best any day, any time!

Kind of reminds me of the "Rail estate" crowd among the AR 15 owners.if you're going to make a sweet little 7 pound rifle weigh more than a Barrett 50 cal,just pack an M-14 or FAL.I would anyway but I'm a bit on the disabled side.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Through hikers attempt to hike over 2000 miles of the Appalachian Trail (or the Pacific Crest Trail, other long distance trails around the world). Some of the through hikers I've met can outpace just about any non combat ready civilian and most combat ready soldiers. By the end of the 6 month hike, they have an extreme amount of endurance and stamina built. Give a through hiker the skills and tools to hunt, fish and trap and they may be the only ones around after SHTF. These folks live on the trail for almost 6 months. It's like a 6 month bug out situation.
The shops do only one thing... Sell Product. A lot of those talks are nothing but big commercials. You may glean some useful information here or there but it's just a product showcase.
The best gear anyone can have is knowledge.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

I got em all beat on the silk briefs, I go commando !


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

ContinualHarvest said:


> Through hikers attempt to hike over 2000 miles of the Appalachian Trail (or the Pacific Crest Trail, other long distance trails around the world). Some of the through hikers I've met can outpace just about any non combat ready civilian and most combat ready soldiers. By the end of the 6 month hike, they have an extreme amount of endurance and stamina built. Give a through hiker the skills and tools to hunt, fish and trap and they may be the only ones around after SHTF. These folks live on the trail for almost 6 months. It's like a 6 month bug out situation.
> The shops do only one thing... Sell Product. A lot of those talks are nothing but big commercials. You may glean some useful information here or there but it's just a product showcase.
> The best gear anyone can have is knowledge.


Godz you make me homesick for the woods.


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## paguy (Jun 8, 2012)

I can support using the beat equipment available if you have the money and desire to. Sure use the right tool for the job. There are many alternatives to silk underwater for $50.00. They range from under armor on the high end to fruit of the loom on the lower end. I have worn both and for the money under armor is not worth it. There will always be bigger and better out there but, do not go nuts.

Ps I still believe in leaving only footprints and taking only pictures.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

tugboats...your story made me laugh...twice.
I'm around the 'can't appreciate a yard sale' type:gaah:...geeze.
Man, my clothes are clean, look new, just off the rack look, and it's uncanny the looks I get when I tell them where it came from and cost $1.
THESE are the types I will have a problem with WTSHTF.

I'll take that cashmere sweater for a 2 liter of rice and 5 chicken bouillon cubes---sold!!!:2thumb:


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

I use a fair amount a surplus gear an older tools. The gear holds upta what I ask of it year after year. 

The tools be the same, there durable proven by the fact they still be in use an will long after there ultra lightwieght stuff be long since busted.

Sorta like our K9 search unit, they wear $200 dollar gaitors, $300 dollar hikin boots an all this fancy outdoor clothin, they look real perty. Fido looks sharp in his fancy vest. They make great pictures when the press shows up. They generally turn up there nose when I'm standin there in my carharts, work boots an layered clothes. I tell em "well, yall find em then the work starts. We bandage em up, load em up, haul em out. All this while fido be playin with his fancy chew toy". Yup, we ain't the best a friends. My gear be used an made ta take the abuse it was intended for.

I let the yuppie types play all they wan't. I just sorta blend inta the background, were the ones what get the job done, not them.

I buy quality what don't always mean it be the latest thin, I'll also buy somethin lower end ifin it will do the job needed a it. Nothin wrong with that. Be why I have the equipment I need ta do the job an still be able ta take momma ta dinner!


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Simple, buy quality, even if it costs, but don't pay for image or logos.

Of course you can also get second hand and save a lot. I got a pair of Carharts in my exact size at the local second hand store a few months back. Looked brand new. Four bucks.

Sounds like you had a pretty good time shocking all the yuppies!


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## echo1432 (May 16, 2012)

tugboats said:


> After parking the battleship


I think I know something about that.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

CulexPipiens said:


> Simple, buy quality, even if it costs, but don't pay for image or logos.
> 
> Of course you can also get second hand and save a lot. I got a pair of Carharts in my exact size at the local second hand store a few months back. Looked brand new. Four bucks.
> 
> Sounds like you had a pretty good time shocking all the yuppies!


My mother volunteers at a college thrift store that doesn't sell any clothing with writing on it(aka tshirts/coats/hats that kind of thing) or any clothing that may be ripped somewhere or is dirty.. they normally just pass this stuff on to goodwill or mel trotter or salvation army or the volunteers. but my mother has a list of stuff that we like and darn if I'll pass up free stuff cuz there is a company logo or name embroidered on it or even a small seam rip or dirt that we can wash off. We have three carhartt coats that have company logos on them that were given to my mother for free and I have a huge down jacket that had a few spots of dried mud on it.. I can't think of the jackets brand off hand but it is the warmest and it covers my whole hinny almost to my knees and cuts the wind like nobodys business. the mud I just brushed off and it didn't even stain as it is a dark navy jacket.(Lands end maybe).
Sure I run around like an ad for every small business in this end of MI but hey most of this stuff is like brand new.
And I have given her a list of things to look for as she gets a discount for working there and on the day she works it is also senior discount day.. so most of what she can get is almost half off. I am hoping for a big burkey to roll thru while she is there..


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## lovetogrow (Jan 25, 2011)

Loved the rant Tugs 

Like you said: :2thumb: "We can make do with almost anything if we have the smarts."


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

I try to cross over to both sides. I participate in ultra endurance races as well as hunt, trap, and fish. I have a hodge-podge of all sorts of gear and mix and match as needed. Ultralite racers have given us the ultralite gear and the hunting side has taken this gear and beefed it up a little to make it more durable. All these companies borrow from and improve their competitors gear and ideas and we all win. Prices are indeed sometimes outrageous but if you wait a year or two you can pick it up cheaper via closeouts, color changes etc. Sorry about your experience, some folks are like that I suppose. But I have seen some hunting outfitting stores treat adventure athletes condescendingly. But we are all after the same thing, lightweight durable gear that works.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

echo1432 said:


> I think I know something about that.
> 
> View attachment 2318


Nice rig.

Why did you repaint my truck? (just joshing)

My truck only takes seven acres, plus or minus the lower fourty, to turn it around. Great tow vehicle but just a little bit lacking off road on the trails. I hate to go to Costco on a crowded day.

Tugs


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Emerald said:


> My mother volunteers at a college thrift store that doesn't sell any clothing with writing on it(aka tshirts/coats/hats that kind of thing) or any clothing that may be ripped somewhere or is dirty.. they normally just pass this stuff on to goodwill or mel trotter or salvation army or the volunteers. but my mother has a list of stuff that we like and darn if I'll pass up free stuff cuz there is a company logo or name embroidered on it or even a small seam rip or dirt that we can wash off. We have three carhartt coats that have company logos on them that were given to my mother for free and I have a huge down jacket that had a few spots of dried mud on it.. I can't think of the jackets brand off hand but it is the warmest and it covers my whole hinny almost to my knees and cuts the wind like nobodys business. the mud I just brushed off and it didn't even stain as it is a dark navy jacket.(Lands end maybe).
> Sure I run around like an ad for every small business in this end of MI but hey most of this stuff is like brand new.
> And I have given her a list of things to look for as she gets a discount for working there and on the day she works it is also senior discount day.. so most of what she can get is almost half off. I am hoping for a big burkey to roll thru while she is there..


I hear ya!!!:congrat:
Oh, I think I know why I NEVER get invited to the neighbor's outings or her grandchildren's soccer/baseball games!!
Their loss and hypocrites that attend church every Sunday Mng. too.:ignore:

Note: Goodwill has 50 cent books.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

musketjim said:


> I try to cross over to both sides. I participate in ultra endurance races as well as hunt, trap, and fish. I have a hodge-podge of all sorts of gear and mix and match as needed. Ultralite racers have given us the ultralite gear and the hunting side has taken this gear and beefed it up a little to make it more durable. All these companies borrow from and improve their competitors gear and ideas and we all win. Prices are indeed sometimes outrageous but if you wait a year or two you can pick it up cheaper via closeouts, color changes etc. Sorry about your experience, some folks are like that I suppose. But I have seen some hunting outfitting stores treat adventure athletes condescendingly. But we are all after the same thing, lightweight durable gear that works.


Musetjim,

I enjoy all people that are truly passonate about any activity. I have never through hiked but I am appreciative of those that REALLY do. I wish that I could be as fit. My beef was the attendees of this seminar where at best "wanna be's". They seemed to be the types that wanted to be seen at the church rather than living the Gospel.

I live my life as simply as possible. I only buy clothes that will last in the enviornment I subject them to. My needs are very simple and plain. I pack a small cast iron pan because my kids love cornbread and honey with breakfast. My kids are older and I adore every last minute of thier company because I know our times together are drawing to a close (they will start up again in 10-15 years or so).

I am not a foolish person, but, if a two pound pan makes them happy then I will carry a four pound pan and be darn happy about it. I just did not like being the butt of thier jokes. I went for information and, as the kids say, got "dissed".

To all: If I have offended any of you I am truly sorry. My intention was to make light of a rather sad situation.

Tugs


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

Tugs: sounds like a h%ll of an experience. I really don't like people like that at all. You were all there to learn so why would they bother insulting you? Shows how shortsighted people can be.

Last year when I went to VA for work I went with a "hood rat" city boy. He's 4 years younger than me (I'm 36) and we couldn't have come from much more different backgrounds. One thing we both learned is how similar we really are. We both were not poor but didn't grow up with extra money so we had to make do with what we had and a lot of our experiences in life were pretty similar. Point is-if people get their heads out of their asses once in a while, they'd learn that we can ALL learn from each other, and may have some similar goals, no matter where they're coming from or where they're going.


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

My dad has always taught me it's about quality not quantity. And knowledge of how to use your gear is better than having the best or most expensive. 

I have had a very similar experience in abalone diving. I can't tell you how many times i have seen the "rich" guys go out in the ocean with the most expensive gear and come back either empty-handed or with a pitifully small catch...and then brag about it. 

My dad and I were cleaning our catch at a table provided by the campsite so there were other people (mostly the rich guys) cleaning too. They were talking about their new gear and how much it was and how that "awesome" gear got them their great catch (I couldn't help but laugh...they were quite small with little meat). They cut the meat and bragged about their $200+ knives and their equally expensive sharpeners and meat slicers. 

My dad had a $15 Walmart knife that was beginning to dull so he turned to me and asked if I could go find a flat, hard rock. I obliged without question. With dirty looks from the yuppies my dad sharpened that $15 knife and cut through the ab meat like butter, and sliced the meat into thin pieces as well (without the electric "all the bells and whistles" meat slicer the others sported). 
The rich guys shut up.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

Tugboats, no offense was taken and I apologize if it sounded like there was. We all are after the same thing, the experience of being out there. Rock on.
The whole world sucks,America sucks a lot less and Alaska don't suck at all.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

musketjim said:


> Tugboats, no offense was taken and I apologize if it sounded like there was. We all are after the same thing, the experience of being out there. Rock on.
> The whole world sucks,America sucks a lot less and Alaska don't suck at all.


The reason I quoted you was that you had the most cogent reply. Your living in both camps (the ultra light hikers and the SHTF crowd) was the whole idea behind the thread. Each group has thier positives and negatives. We all can learn and better ourselves if we can eliminate each weakness and build on each strength.

My better days are behind me now. I prefer to rely on equipment rather than pure stamina. I am only concerned with the welfare of my family. For me to get home, lead them in a bug out situation or effect a rescue I need to limit my initial load out. I hope to learn from the ultralight crowd in the future because the less weight I carry the more effective I can be to the family.

I am in great shape for a man my age (I hate the Doctor that made that comment) but I can't see my fifties in my rear view mirror any more. For those of us in this catagory (you know who you are) providing a safe and wholesome future for our kids is becoming more difficult as the years pass. If I can lessen the weight then I can lessen the burden.

I also need to limit the expeditures to go lighter. I still have three weddings to pay for in the next several years. Alaska may not suck, but Poverty sucks.......Poverty sucks.......Poverty sucks.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

tugboats said:


> ...I still have three weddings to pay for in the next several years. Alaska may not suck, but Poverty sucks.......Poverty sucks.......Poverty sucks.


For my Son's wedding two years ago and my Daughter's this year I handed them each a check.

I told them they could use the check for their wedding, down payment, savings or whatever they wanted. But that check covered any obligation they thought I should have towards their wedding. Next problem.

Your comment about 50 years of age in the rear view mirror I can relate to. Remember when 50 was old? and now I consider them young!


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

tugboats said:


> I have a buddy that owns a three-hundred dollar custom knife that I am afraid to hold, let alone use.


Dang I was with you until we got here. 
Now I feel guilty. My EDC is a handmade custom, from hand forged 144 layer Damascus high carbon with a Mammoth Ivory handle. That my wife got me for my birthday, after seeing me admire it at a show. Being a bit more than your friends knife I would not have bought it for myself.








I do have to admit it is purdy and I do like the look and feel of it in my hand a joy to work with. Makes me feel like I need to take pride in whatever I do with it. But in the end it is a knife and form must follow function. I use it daily on everything from meat to boxes and everything in between. I am happy to report that it is an awesome workhorse. Its edge retention is nothing short of incredible, it held a shaving sharp edge for a bit over six months cutting everything and anything I needed it to. It is not my survival bush blade but for EDC it works very well and looks good doing it.
But over all I agree with you designer gear is not required to get good results. Than again I do believe especially for survival gear in buying quality that will last and serve you a life time. So I suppose there is a line we all have to draw for ourselves


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

LongRider said:


> Dang I was with you until we got here.
> Now I feel guilty. My EDC is a handmade custom, from hand forged 144 layer Damascus high carbon with a Mammoth Ivory handle. That my wife got me for my birthday, after seeing me admire it at a show. Being a bit more than your friends knife I would not have bought it for myself.
> 
> 
> ...


Longrider,

We all need certain luxuries in life. I have received several gifts from loved ones that I would not purchase for myself. Hopefully, the best feature of your knife is intangible. It was given with love. you, no doubt, are reminded of this each time you strap it on or use it. I know that you enjoy the knife.

The point I was trying to make, alibiet poorly, is that we can survive, and survive quite well, without a high priced custom knife, hatchet, trail tarp, thingamajig or dumahinkus. Our forefathers never had the quality of equipment that we currently enjoy. Thier tarps were oilskinned canvas, instead of a titanium pot they had cast iron or copper, there were no butane stoves (or some other modern fuel) just wood, no sythetic underware just woolen "union suits", if they wanted light weight footwear they wore mocs (if you have ever tried hiking in these you will understand why we have shoes or boots), they did not have fancy britches that would burn through if campfire sparks landed on them.

"Stuff" happens when you least expect it. I would hate to deal with "stuff" if I had to go get my twohundred dollar britches out of the cleaners first or get my fancy axe out of the safe. It is what you have on hand at the time that will make or break your survival.

Rock on with your knife.

P.S. If the war department is reading this........That new truck sure looked nice.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

tugboats said:


> The point I was trying to make, alibiet poorly, is that we can survive, and survive quite well, without a high priced custom knife, hatchet, trail tarp, thingamajig or dumahinkus. Our forefathers never had the quality of equipment that we currently enjoy. Thier tarps were oilskinned canvas, instead of a titanium pot they had cast iron or copper, there were no butane stoves (or some other modern fuel) just wood, no sythetic underware just woolen "union suits", if they wanted light weight footwear they wore mocs (if you have ever tried hiking in these you will understand why we have shoes or boots), they did not have fancy britches that would burn through if campfire sparks landed on them.


Oh I got the message and am in full agreement. I really don't like those ultra light fanatics either. They do in fact weight the grains of rice and remove the labels from their gear to cut down on weight. I can not tell you the number of times I got sneers and snide comments from them on the Pacific trail as they zipped by me or the times I passed them in tears literally bawling, actually sobbing like a little girl whose kitten had just died, because their precious pack had torn dumping their fragile gear all over creation, their years of planning gone down the drain. As I plodded on by I could not help but laugh. I mean seriously? Sobbing?

There are folks like that in every crowd, like all the RUBs who also used to sneer at low life bikers and now have $30,000 $40,000 $60,000 $160.000 Harleys or customs. Half are death traps, most can't ride past the local bar, look like they are going to wet themselves puttin down the road ten miles under in the slow lane. But they are badass bikers at their local country club watering hole. I have actually seen them driving over their boutique leathers in the SUV to give them that "Worn Biker Look" Outside of Sturgis farmers are getting rich renting parking places for all the trucks and trailers they trailer their bike to Sturgis on. Than ride on into town, bedroll and pack strapped to the bike as if they actually rode there. They put less than half the miles on their bikes in a decade that I do in six month. Hell I've seen Harley's not even past their break in period after a decade. There are millions of Hardly riders but bikers are a rare breed.

So I got where you are coming from, was right there with you. Than got embarrassed when you got to your buds knife. All of sudden I felt like an ultralite, yuppie scum bag RUB, so I had to get back to you on that.

Than realized we all have some of that. Wanting the best there is. I mean who among us does not droll at the sight of a LWRC REPR or a Les Baur custom 1911? I am sure more than a few of us own one or the other if not both. Who wouldn't give his eye teeth for his Ivory handled Engraved Centennial 1911, 3 grand seems perfectly reasonable to me. In fact if I did not need to get a wind generator. One would have be on my hip every BBQ , even though I know full well my plastic XD will stop the BG just as quick.

Point is I enjoyed your rant those guys are whacked. But than ya know we all got a little bit of whacked going on our own selves. So don't let em get you down or get on em to hard. They do serve a purpose.

If you ever need a good laugh when you meet one on the trail. Watch them as you sit on their pack.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Funny! I live in the Pacific Northwest and know the type intimately...lord they are just totally pretentious people and will never survive because most of them will not lower themselves to actually eating the flesh of any animal, so yeah, their expensive gear they just had to have will be free later on.

These people abound here and they overthink everything and get sold every ridiculous bit of gear someone can devise. Sure they might be fit and can hike, but I KNOW they cannot start a fire for the life of them (we live in the Pacific Northwest, I learned to start a fire even in the rain). They'll freeze to death while starving to death on their dried fruit and veggie rations.

Skills their outdoor store teaches will not help if SHTF, it's only good for hiking.

Should have driven up with a deer head attached to the front of your truck! LOL, would have added to the looks.


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## PennyPincher (Dec 5, 2011)

LOL

I too backpack and learnedlong ago that a lighter load made for a more pleasant trip.My first hike I had 60 pounds on my back (and 10 on my feet!). I weighed 120 or less at the timeso that was a long miserable hike except somehow I loved it. I started lightening my load. Most had been cobbled together since I didn't want to buy gear for a hobby I might not stick with at the time. When I bought my first back pack it was what I used for 20 years. Over those 20 years I learned to lighten my load. No more cast iron skillet for me when backpacking. I bought a decent bag at the time and still have it. It's actually a little lighter than todays version of the same bag but not an ultralight. I also discovered other things I didn't need or could gradually upgrade. For instance, I buy my cold weather clothes when they go on sale in the summer. I have gradually bought lighter stuff. I wear a lot of this stuff when not hiking. If we go out sledding with our son on go the silks (yes, I have them), then a thermal layer, thin pant, and my snow pants (which I have owned for 17 years, they are gore tex lined).I also have another thicker thermal layer if I need it but generally if I am moving at all it is unnecessary even in really cold temps. Torso gets the silk, 2-3 insulating thin layers depending on temp, fleece/microfleece and if I need a wind blocker I will wear my rain coat. I have another layer that is a super light weight synthetic jacket (just bought on sale last year) for when I stop moving and possibly 1 more layer. Just this much warmth would be very heavy to carry if it wasn't for some of these fabric advances. I was able to shave a couple of pounds off my clothing over time (maybe 4-6 pounds) for the coldest hiking. I also now carry a complete 'kitchen' that weighs less than my first backpacking stove weighed. I upgraded my sleeping pad and tent and cut 4 pounds there. I always carry first aid, a cell phone, maps/trail guides, hygiene stuff,etc. But the reality is that my gear is all very durable and has lasted me a long time. It also helps me stay moving and allows me to enjoy my trip instead of being sore and miserable from carrying a heavy load. I can carry everything I need for a week, gathering and treating water as I go for less than 30 lbs and be very comfortable, except a firearm. This knowledge has helped me when preparing my BOB/GHB. BOB/GHB need to allow me to get somewhere. At home though and in my car I do not need to worry about weight as much. 

So while it seems they weren't very welcoming understand they are there for a totally different form of 'camping.' You called them 'wanna be's'and that is what they are 'wanna be thru hikers.' They are not preppers. Different Goals, different paths.


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

Lightweight doesnt always last.......... And whats SCI?


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

This is the same with me i buy the cheapest, but i also try to minimize weight by eliminating what i dont need...... I constantly pack and unpack my BOB because the more i look at it the more i realize thing that arnt necessary..... Some (like me) can be cheap/ poor and still reduce weight. I know crap loads of ppl with a "normal" 72 hour pack. My 72 hour pack is the size of a regular 24 hour pack! Mot lying! And obviously by the end of 72 hours, id already be where i need to go, set up, and hunting....


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

Its not necessarily how you pack, its what you know about how to use the things you pack....


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I think you found the spoiled rich kids with more money than sense!! 

I don't "back pack", I DO grab my BOB now and then and start goin on the dirt roads and trails. Mostly for training purposes, and to make sure my BOB is balanced and fitted properly. 

For a BOB, durable is way more important than light, as with most everything you put in it! Most of what is IN your BOB, as well as the bag itself, wont be easily replaced, so it should be heavy duty/durable.


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

pandamonium said:


> I think you found the spoiled rich kids with more money than sense!!
> 
> I don't "back pack", I DO grab my BOB now and then and start goin on the dirt roads and trails. Mostly for training purposes, and to make sure my BOB is balanced and fitted properly.
> 
> For a BOB, durable is way more important than light, as with most everything you put in it! Most of what is IN your BOB, as well as the bag itself, wont be easily replaced, so it should be heavy duty/durable.


One the main thing i do to save weight is to get things that have multiple uses. Almost everything has multiple uses, you not have to figure out what they are sometimes....


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

For instance, you don't need a tarp and a rain coat, just get a poncho, it can be used as both.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> All the super hikers would be the first to die if SHTF, cause how could they ever learn to do anything without the best super light and of course expensive equipment. at least the scavengers would get some spendy equipment.


I disagree. They'll die first because they don't have an instinct to survive. They plan their hikes like they plan their days, everything must fit into perfect little boxes and they've got too much money to spend on accessories.

They will not die first because they have the expensive toys and training, they'll die first because expensive toys and training do not replace knowledge and state of mind.

And yep, the scavengers will get some good bargains on new found gear, when zombie-bait retards are sitting around a campfire singing Kum-ba-ya in the PAW. :goodluck:


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER said:


> Lightweight doesnt always last.......... And whats SCI?


Safari Club International. Vegans need not apply. We are all members of PETA......PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS. As a side note: If God did not want us to eat animals why did he make them so tasty?

SCI is a great organization that contributes to many great endeavors including, but not limited to; Education of Educators, animal preservation and helping youngsters have the ability to experience the wonder of the great out-of-doors.


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## EXPERT_SURVIVALIST_RANGER (Sep 24, 2012)

tugboats said:


> Safari Club International. Vegans need not apply. We are all members of PETA......PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS. As a side note: If God did not want us to eat animals why did he make them so tasty?
> 
> SCI is a great organization that contributes to many great endeavors including, but not limited to; Education of Educators, animal preservation and helping youngsters the ability to experience the wonder of the great out-of-doors.


I LOVE MEAT! he did make them for use to eat....... its called the cycle of life!


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

pawpaw said:


> You've painted a vivid picture of your experience in my mind, with humor to boot. That's talent.
> I'd never given much thought to how 'The Other Side' approaches gear.
> Let's all be brutally honest with ourselves...Most are like me, and have at least one very useful China item in their preps.
> Heck, I've even got a trusted item that's so cheap it says, "MAD IN TAIWAN".


One of the info plates on the $1.25 million machining center I used to run said "rubricant". There's an entire website dedicated to "engrish" found on products.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Guess I'll toss my two cents in. My parents never made much money when I was a kid, so I watched as they made due with what they had, and patched(or tried to patch) things well enough to get by. I learned a few things, some by simple observance and others by necessity. One of the main ones was the difference between being frugal or being cheap. It makes sense to be frugal, but being cheap is almost always nonsensical. I've watched so many people(and I freely admit guilt myself on a few occasions) try to be cheap and it almost never works out.

I'm frugal, my wife is often cheap. I want _good_ gear, not cheap gear. If it's good and inexpensive, so much the better, but if it's $100 instead of $25, then I don't have a problem with spending the extra money for the good one. In contrast, if I bought say, a $25 pack and it fell apart on the first outing, I'd have a serious problem with having not spent the extra $75 on the good one that was next to it. Even more so if my family's lives or my own life is on the line.


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## oif_ghost_tod (Sep 25, 2012)

My personal belief is.
Ideally one should have a personal minimum of a few good pieces of gear. A good knife, multitool (like gerber or leatherman) and a way to start a fire like magnesium block or firesteel are bare minimum. And cordage...always need rope in a survival situation. Then its up to you to strike a balance between gear and training that fits you. Remember you can't misplace or break skills, but the right gear can mean the difference between comfort and misery in a survival situation.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Coming from the other side of the coin here... There are certain times when having the best equipment is needed - example a guitarist will spend $5000+ on a custom Les Paul ... I have one, I don't play live or record anymore, but the tone I want and feel simply can't be beat... I also have an old beat up clone that has been outfitted with some 1960 pickups that also has one of the most incredible tones I have heard. Note the tones are completely different for different styles of playing too.

But in regards to surviving a SHTF world, anything that works is useful. I would too carry that cast iron skillet if my daughter loved corn bread like yours... For me personally, I want things that are durable or will be when used. I will spend more on a top of the line water filtration system, but look for bargains on canned foods items. I think there has to be balance with expenditures. 

I went shooting this weekend, I saw a guy with a tricked out class 3 MP5 that couldn't hit shit even on single shot... I am there with a friend hitting center ring at 100 yards with an iron sight on a beat up AK a buddy had brought along... Go figure...


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

Still ROFL from the yuppie story. Some folks gotta have the newest & best, be it 'ultralight' gear or electronic doo-dads, or every news channel on sattelite so they know exactly what is going on everywhere (or so they think). Whatta bunch of goombahs.
I find those folks tend to be the worst gossips and nosiest, too; they wanna have their fingers in every pie. 
They are annoying (like gnats) but they 'cant stand' to be around anyone who is not exactly like them, so I dont worry when they come around- they soon leave. I just keep my opsec in mind, they have very loose lips and the self righteousness to be dangerous.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

The mindset of the ultra-lightweight crowd does not allow for suffering so they'll spend ungodly amounts on gear rather than endure any pain from a heavy pack. There is a reason that US Military gear is heavy. It has to last through endless abuse so heavier fabrics and stout construction are the norm.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

invision said:


> Coming from the other side of the coin here... There are certain times when having the best equipment is needed - example a guitarist will spend $5000+ on a custom Les Paul ... I have one, I don't play live or record anymore, but the tone I want and feel simply can't be beat... I also have an old beat up clone that has been outfitted with some 1960 pickups that also has one of the most incredible tones I have heard. Note the tones are completely different for different styles of playing too.
> 
> But in regards to surviving a SHTF world, anything that works is useful. I would too carry that cast iron skillet if my daughter loved corn bread like yours... For me personally, I want things that are durable or will be when used. I will spend more on a top of the line water filtration system, but look for bargains on canned foods items. I think there has to be balance with expenditures.
> 
> I went shooting this weekend, I saw a guy with a tricked out class 3 MP5 that couldn't hit shit even on single shot... I am there with a friend hitting center ring at 100 yards with an iron sight on a beat up AK a buddy had brought along... Go figure...


I've been on a number of ranges with folks who had a $1200 AR with another $1000 in accessories on it(optics included), who couldn't keep everything in a 4" group at 25 yards.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> I've been on a number of ranges with folks who had a $1200 AR with another $1000 in accessories on it(optics included), who couldn't keep everything in a 4" group at 25 yards.


Of course, some are goofs will always remain in the spray and pray school of stupid and never improve. Others are at the range to learn how to shoot. In time their scores will improve. Hell no doubt there have been days that I was the guy being laughed at. While on others I was the guy shooting ragged holes.

My next AR purchase is an LWRC REPR costing more than 3K before optics. No doubt it shoots better than I ever will, truth is most modern quality guns made to today shoot better than I do. That does not deter me from wanting the durable reliability those weapons premiere design and precision production offer me. Who knows if my eyes don't give up first my skill may one day worthy of the rifle. Same with my boots they cost five times what the average man pays for his boots but they are more comfortable than theirs ever will be and last me thirty times as long. Some things are worth the extra money, to me. I like what invision said we all have to decide for ourselves what is worth the extra investment and what we can save money on. Its up to us the wring the most out of whatever gear we opt for and not look like we have a come rob me sign around our necks


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Of course, some are goofs will always remain in the spray and pray school of stupid and never improve. Others are at the range to learn how to shoot. In time their scores will improve. Hell no doubt there have been days that I was the guy being laughed at. While on others I was the guy shooting ragged holes.
> 
> My next AR purchase is an LWRC REPR costing more than 3K before optics. No doubt it shoots better than I ever will, truth is most modern quality guns made to today shoot better than I do. That does not deter me from wanting the durable reliability that weapons premiere design and precision production offer me. Who knows if my eyes don't give up first my skill may one day worthy of the rifle. Same with my boots they cost five times what the average man pays for his boots but they are ore comfortable than their ever will be and last me thirty times as long. Some things to me are worth the extra money. I like what invision said we all have to decide for ourselves what is worth the extra investment and what we can save money on. Its up to use the wring the most out of whatever gear we opt for and not look like we have a come rob me sign around our necks


Thanks LR, and the guy with the MP was more show off than serious shooter. I go to the range to practice not play with my toys. I use to be that way with my buddies up in Ohio... But since growing older some 20 years or so, a well put shot seems a heck of a lot more important that seeing how fast I can blow threw a clip. Although I will admit that we did practice quick fire with the hand guns at 25 yards, all shots from me and the guy I was with hit center mass, so I was pleased, but only one cllip too.


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## NicoleG (Apr 28, 2012)

I have to say that was the most entertaining rant Iève (hmm my apostrophe wonèt work lol)...

I love your style..LOL


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

NicoleG said:


> I have to say that was the most entertaining rant Iève (hmm my apostrophe wonèt work lol)...
> 
> I love your style..LOL


I hope that you can get your apostrophe fixed without surgical intervention. I heard tell of a guy that went through life sans apostrophe. It was not a pretty story.

May the grammatical icons shine on you in your time of need.

Tugs


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

tugboats said:


> Musetjim,
> 
> I enjoy all people that are truly passonate about any activity. I have never through hiked but I am appreciative of those that REALLY do. I wish that I could be as fit. My beef was the attendees of this seminar where at best "wanna be's". They seemed to be the types that wanted to be seen at the church rather than living the Gospel.
> 
> ...


*Boats, If somebody got offended by your OP then they need another forum. I love the Kabar comment. Got mine in 1960 but I have retired it simply because I just can't replace it in my heart. But i do take it out and stroke it pretty often.

I *have to say that I never heard of "Through Hikers" but anybody who can cover 60 miles a day in rough country or any country has my respect!! And if they can make do with spider web gear more power to them, I can't afford it, don't want it. My favorite boots are 39 years old this year and still in good shape but are on the 3rd set of vibrum heels and soles.

unless it deep winter ( in which case I'll be home watching football) I use my old poncho and liner. still doing a good job after all these years and there are a few duck tape patches on it.

On great piece of gear I have is the Blast Match fire starter. BUT it does weigh 2 ounces!

But I'm past the back packing part of my life!

Anyway, I enjoyed your post!
HB


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