# Homemade off grid bunker?



## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I'm thinking about making my own bunker out in the woods I want to make it the best I can with very little money at all I'd prefer to use natural resources found with in those woods maybe a few pieces of plywood and a few tarps maybe and shovels of course! But how would some of you guys do it if you had no or very little budget I'm talking 300 bucks that's it! The location I picked out has a stream running down the hill next to it about 25-30 yards away and it's cleaner then the well water I have at home! So what do you guys have in mind? 


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Deathdealer said:


> I'm thinking about making my own bunker out in the woods I want to make it the best I can with very little money at all I'd prefer to use natural resources found with in those woods maybe a few pieces of plywood and a few tarps maybe and shovels of course! But how would some of you guys do it if you had no or very little budget I'm talking 300 bucks that's it! The location I picked out has a stream running down the hill next to it about 25-30 yards away and it's cleaner then the well water I have at home! So what do you guys have in mind?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Grab your shovel and start digging!


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Deathdealer said:


> I'm thinking about making my own bunker out in the woods I want to make it the best I can with very little money at all I'd prefer to use natural resources found with in those woods maybe a few pieces of plywood and a few tarps maybe and shovels of course! But how would some of you guys do it if you had no or very little budget I'm talking 300 bucks that's it! The location I picked out has a stream running down the hill next to it about 25-30 yards away and it's cleaner then the well water I have at home! So what do you guys have in mind?


I think you would benefit from taking your time and reading a lot of what people post in this forum about many things before you start on an endeavor such as this. A survival bunker isn't the first thing someone should do nor the most important thing.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Craigslist, construction sites, wherever someone is remodeling, people wanting out buildings torn down. It's amazing what you can get for free if you look & are willing to come pick it up! :2thumb:


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

http://www.undergroundhousing.com/


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Deathdealer said:


> I'm thinking about making my own bunker out in the woods I want to make it the best I can with very little money at all I'd prefer to use natural resources found with in those woods maybe a few pieces of plywood and a few tarps maybe and shovels of course! But how would some of you guys do it if you had no or very little budget I'm talking 300 bucks that's it! The location I picked out has a stream running down the hill next to it about 25-30 yards away and it's cleaner then the well water I have at home! So what do you guys have in mind?


Do you own this property?


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*My humble bunker opinion?????*

1.	Do you own this property?
2.	How far from civilization is this property?
3.	A $300.00 bunker is kind of cheap?
4.	Water supply is too far away for safety?
And keeping in mind that a bunker is nothing more than a seating duck hole I highly recommend spending your money is supplies for the long haul or something that you really need or just saving it for a rainy day.


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

Yes I own the property and it is in a rainy ass place that's why I have that stream a lil ways a way I don't want it to come screw my whole day up if I had to use it! I'm trying to keep it cheep and see how good of a bunker I could build with the materials around me I was thinking of using trees laid next to each other to form a roof and then lay a tarp on them then covering with the earth I took out to dig the hole! It's just a side plan I've had going in my head I have many different places I could go to bug out if anything happened but this would be my absolute last last place I could go I'd like it to be built nicely!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

For what purpose? Storage? Tornado shelter? Long term fallout shelter?


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I'd say for a storm shelter or just like a week long stay at best think of it being a "way station" to rest at stay where no one can find you until the cost is clear to move on to you next bug out location 


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

It is very doable for almost no cost if you want to put the labour in. Looking at information on old fashioned root cellars might help you.

So much depends on the conditions in your area, climate and soil both. There are several ways to go about things cheaply. A log roof will work great and if protected can last for decades (here at least). Forget about tarps imo for water proofing, either a membrane or if you want cheap some good old poly will do the job well. Even if you have nice clean soil or sand to backfill with you will want either a heavy poly or multiple layers (it really is cheap), you can use a thinner poly and a tarp to protect it but not worth it imo. Make sure you keep some overall slope to the roof (and the structure in general), dug into a hillside is best in most places (sloping downhill of course). Make the roof larger than your structure, just like the overhang on a house.

That's the roof, for the walls there are more things to consider. If the soil is stable enough then you can just simply leave them as is or cover them with some wire or hardware cloth to keep out pests. The big decision then becomes, seal it up (and add ventilation) or let the walls breath and protect things inside from issues. In our area many houses a hundred years ago were built with dirt basements, many of these are still functional today (with furnaces, water heaters etc.:eyebulge the key point being the house protected them from moisture and other issues.


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

readytogo said:


> 1.	Do you own this property?
> 2.	How far from civilization is this property?
> 3.	A $300.00 bunker is kind of cheap?
> 4.	Water supply is too far away for safety?
> And keeping in mind that *a bunker is nothing more than a seating duck hole *I highly recommend spending your money is supplies for the long haul or something that you really need or just saving it for a rainy day.


Exactly! (Well, unless of course it is one of those multi-million dollar communities - but then again, aren't those too just a much fancier and nicer seating duck hole?)

I can understand your idea floating around in your head and just wanting to make it happen - OMG I get caught up with my ideas far too often. The thing to ask is the $300, is this just blow money that you have already written off, kind of like going to the slots and planning to lose it all? OR. is it money that you have saved and you feel $300 is enough to get a basic well-designed shelter built?

If it is the latter of the two then by no means should you spend more than a dime on the shelter. $300, that was saved, goes a hell of a long way in prepping supplies. On the other hand, $300 saved-up will simply be disappointing after having started your shelter and then realizing you will need at MINIMUM another $300.

We here really have no desire to stomp out any ideas or plans or dreams, but we do desire to see individuals not make mistakes we've made. What is more, the collective knowledge and years of experience here can also be applied to ideas, plans, and dreams to better, and/or, unfortunately discourage said ideas, plans, and dreams.

Soooo, to apply my experience here for you (my experience comes from doing dumb stuff because I was bored for more than an hour);
I say go for it. YES, go for it and build that thang. With one condition, spend NO money. Nothing but your time, that's all.

OR

Plan it out and do it right. A shelter (for me) is assumed to offer a certain level of protection - and I put a price on that, $300 is not nearly enough. Being in the design stage of my personal DIY tornado shelter and many of hours researching plans and designs and pre-built models I am currently at $3200 all-in.

Keep in mind: this is my $.02 and does not include the rest of Prepared Society community, so do with it what you will :kiss:


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

My only question is how thick of logs should I use for the walls and for the roofing to make it safe reminder I'm putting earth back on top of the logs for a roofing too and how deep should I make it? Make it to where I can fully stand up or like a crouching hight?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

In my area if you dig a big hole you would have it full of poisonous creatures in no time to keep you company!


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I have that taken care of already there's a shit ton of cats out there that love eating them


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Deathdealer said:


> My only question is how thick of logs should I use for the walls and for the roofing to make it safe reminder I'm putting earth back on top of the logs for a roofing too and how deep should I make it? Make it to where I can fully stand up or like a crouching hight?


The reason I can't give you a straight answer is that there are too many factors, I know how to do this in several areas of Alberta, Saskatchewan, and B.C but each place is different. Factors to consider are; type of wood, the span logs must cover (distance between supports), type of soil for back-fill and how deep it will be. I can't really answer these questions for you, for example the deeper you go, the more work but the more stable the temp (is that even an issue for you:dunno.

An example for my area would be dug into a clay hillside, roof nearly twice the size or structure and further up the hill. Aspen poplar logs about 12" diameter for roof with unsupported spans of about 4', covered by roughly 3ft or dirt. That is huge overkill and could be buried much deeper but I know it works and am very cautious when getting into a hole. This is an example more of an earth sheltered structure than a bunker, it is bullet resistant to any hand held gun or tornado and so can serve the role of cache, storm shelter, or defensive fighting position. Adding a secondary concealed exit can make it safer and more useful but often requires a lot of work.

Here is a log beam calculator to give you some ideahttp://www.forestryforum.com/members/donp/logbeamcalc.htm


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

look at log building roof span charts to decide on the size and span, the link I gave earlier will show you how to do the under ground part, as long as you stay above the water table. make it so you can stand up in it. if you are sheltering from a storm or what ever you need to be able to stretch out. depending on the terrain you could build up using the dirt from the excavation to form a "hill" if it wouldn't stand out too badly.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Deathdealer said:


> My only question is how thick of logs should I use for the walls and for the roofing to make it safe reminder I'm putting earth back on top of the logs for a roofing too and how deep should I make it? Make it to where I can fully stand up or like a crouching hight?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


you are asking ENGINEERING questions about a hole you want to hide in, about a property you apparently own, but you want to stay 35 yards close to water, I saw another reply about 35 yards being to far away, and I disagree... water will be what people on foot are following. They aren't stupid. They will stay close to it.

You want to be 35 yards away from the wandering masses, and 35 yards away from a potential flash flood?

Not a good idea.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Dakine said:


> They aren't stupid. They will stay close to it.
> 
> You want to be 35 yards away from the wandering masses, and 35 yards away from a potential flash flood?
> 
> Not a good idea.


Of course people are stupid but yes they will stay near water when possible. Once again, it really depends where you are though. In areas where water is rare, a stream will be attractive to people (if they actually find it). In many other areas though, there are so many sources that larger ones will be magnets while others attract no more attention than any other feature.

Just a for example, Saskatchewan has 100 000 lakes and only 1 million people That doesn't include all the rivers and streams connecting them either, what makes it crazier though is the vast majority of these are all in the northern half of the province. In Manitoba water is even more unavoidable, 1/6 of the area is water.

Either way, not having a water source nearby one way or another is suicide, maybe 35' is too close in some places, for me it's a bit too far :dunno:

As for the flash flood, once again it depends on the area and the topography. I can think of endless locations that are within 25' of water that are essentially incapable of flooding.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Rain runoff! Drainage!

Dig your Bunker at the top of a hill. Rain runoff will run down hill away from your Bunker. Drains in the corners of you Bunker with pipes running down hill will keep your bunker dry. Cut trees to length for the roof. Cover the cut trees/roof with a plastic tarp, dirt from the bunker hole and native plants. Dig out and frame a doorway and you are in business. Build the roof off the ground about 12" and you have windows/shooting slots and visibility on all four sides. Less then $300 bucks easy.

BUT!

Hiding the silhouette of your structure on top of a hill could make camouflaging a interesting problem to resolve.

SO...

Dig you Bunker on the side of the hill! Slope the soil on the Bunker roof to redirect rain runoff away from your Bunker.

BUT!

Now you have a blind side. You can only observe anyone/anything approaching you from 3 sides only. String some passive trip wire on the approach to your blind back to a bell inside your Bunker.

Run a 1" pipe from the stream _*down stream*_ and inside to the Bunker sink water valve. Now you have running water without exposing yourself or leaving tracks in the snow. A drain from the sink back out to the downstream side of the stream will hide your wastewater. Just be careful of what you dump down the drain, hate to have your downstream neighbors turn into Zombies...

Then as time and finances allow cover the Bunker walls with plastic (moisture barrier) and frame. Since you have a close water source hand mix a concrete floor.

Make sure you are not too close to the stream. Hate to have the stream overflow and flood you out.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

I just got back from our place in NW Arkansas. Sadly we decided to put it up for sale. We had one hidden bunker on the place from a former owner (in the 1959 time frame). It was a wreck and I mean a wreck. Like most folks the guy had done a great job on his walls but his "roof" was really lacking. We had to fill it in to keep someone from getting killed when they fell in the hole. 

We had this place a long time and had a great deal of fun up there but it was time to move on. It is just too far to travel to on even a long notice from our home base. If you are going to have a place you need or should I say you must live there. Buying property is only the first step in the process. The more land you have the bigger the job becomes. 

In our case we have currently left 355 acres of mountains, meadows, creeks, springs and tons of hard wood. We have good neighbors and some I would not give you a nickle for. Fencing that amount of acreage is a full time job. Maintaining the roads inside it is another job. Having a shelter is not the only thing you have to consider.


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## vidarr (Jun 25, 2013)

You've got my mind racing, thinking of possibilities! 

First off, what tools do you own? 

If you have a chainsaw, a felling axe, a beam making froe, your imagination is the limit! 

Work with the landscape, try to keep everything streamlined, and figure out a way to cheaply divert some water from the stream covertly. All the while, making sure you focus on rain proofing the interior. 

In my mind, I'm picturing something designed like a narrow trench, with small storage and sleeping areas. 
Minimize the digging that needs to be done to shape your interior first. 
Fell trees, and shape them into beams you would bury as your roof, might want to tar them or otherwise treat them for durability. Add culverts on each side, followed by some kind of waterproof sheeting working with the slope of the land, adding a few degrees of slope, allowing water to run off. Then, bury the entire structure, with the exception of the door in about a foot and a half of soil. Make sure to add supports inside!! Followed by adding debris, and allowing the natural foliage to regrow on top. 
Only thing left is making the entrance as unnoticeable as possible. And cleaning up the inside to suit your needs. 

I would begin first by researching the building of an underground cold storage, and expand on that. 

But, as others have said. Try not to spend a dime on it! And don't consider it much more than a storage area. 


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

I would build a root cellar, for storing food, a dryer room for sleeping.
If you do like the vid.,the pout a floor/ foundation for the walls & block it up on at least 3 sides.
Youtube is full of these, but shipping container are not good for under ground bunkers, because the thin metal walls will not hold up against mud slides or side wall cave in.


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

I would avoid wood unless you have access to Cypress it is one of the 
American woods that does not rot easily or quickly.

everything depends on location a low spot and your flooded by one of the 
100 year floods.
to avoid this use a TOPO map and try to find your best spot to put up or down
a structure.

Above ground and burial is better for most areas.
a large diameter drain pipe could be sealed with HDP high density polyethylene.
a long term silicone or even tar and a couple of nylon ratchet straps.
the floor could be made from treated copper sulfate old pallets 
although round is not perfect if it is large enough for 2 persons to 
pass each other it is workable the unused circumference could easily 
made into shelves.on both sides leaving the center for a walk way.

Camouflage and concealment for an entrance and at the top rear a 
place to slit and escape never box yourself in watch movies of Japanese 
being burned out of the caves on all the Islands the U.S. took in WWII.

the problem with digging is your creating a swimming pool the only thing stopping water is the depth or even just the shear amount of rain 
can and has crushed roofs in malls and shopping centers.

Buried gives you a lot of advantages like not having to climb in and out 
to work on it you do not need a sump pump the amount of dirt is 
a natural bullet resistant barrier there is very little learning curve,
you can wedge in proper length cut boards for walls.

All my shelving is built like a movie set unconventional and very strong 
and key areas can be reinforced without major renovations.

Once grass and weeds grow on it it will look like part of the landscape 
in fact choosing certain plants like blackberry grows food and keeps using the back side for a hide.
You will need a solar powered sensor or alarm on the back side or end to keep
anyone from using it as a blind spot but a bunker unless you have cameras 
and a way to power them during an event your blind.
if you want to enhance defenses use old tires and fill them with dirt 
better than sand bags and you can plant in them I would use a staggered 
pattern 2 deep.

Tires are also a way to build but cover it with HDP and seal the seams 
bury the whole thing leaving a door in and out the back or side.
the one drawback is critters (bugs) can get in but you can attach walls with wing bolts or stainless wire probably better to use chicken wire and 
duplex spray foam once it sets it is easy to repair if it ever cracks open it 
and spray foam or use tar in a caulking gun. but with the pool liner of HDP
and covered with dirt I doubt it will allow anything in.

in fact if you build an igloo with cattle panels ( heavy welded wire rigid fence)
and then use chicken wire or expanded aluminum you could spray both sides 
cover with HDP and cover with dirt and have a small hide 
panels are 16 foot long if you arch them you will have a 6 foot + ceiling 
depends on width of structure or you can wire 2 or more together and expand the arch but remember you wil need uprights and braces to support weight and I would use only a scattering of dirt on top if the HDP fails for some 
reason the water would add to the dirt weight and the roof may fail 
Your not building the taj mahal.

another way is cribbing and camo for a shelter 

I have built storage for poor friends 
with old damaged garage doors and 4X4's easy as pie 

one 4X4 on each side cemented place the one on top and use a lag bolt through the horizontal 4X4 into the top of the standing ones 
You have to bolt these weather can be viscous and will rip the roof off
if not secured.
Depending on your area as to how much roof pitch (angle) use the garage 
door panels and seal them with tar or rolled roofing 
the floor out of cement pads or old bricks even packed mud 
and packed mud takes me to adobe but you have to live in a dry climate 
or you will have nothing but problems.

If you can find rebar use it in place of cattle panel in instructions above 
Bamboo will act in a similar fashion for a framework as long as it 
is certain types you can test it by cutting off one and hanging it till it dries
if it bends like a cane fishing pole your good to go if it snaps no can do.

wear gloves and glasses and a nut hut (hard hat)


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

Ok so the hole is have way done and it sucks 5 rebar like roots had to go and the closest tree was about 20 feet from where I cut it! I have it about 7 feet deep! I have some trees an great logs I marked for my walls and roof once I have the hole finished I'll start cutting


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## Ozarker (Jul 29, 2014)

LOL, well, when I was an ornery kid we live a few houses away from a field and wooded area where we played, usually played Rat Patrol. There was an old concrete slab floor from a building that had been cleared away. We dug down and opened up an area under that slab, don't worry, or underground fort was checked by parents and a contractor before we got out "occupancy permit" from our parents.

The field was a popular parking spot for high school and college kids. We would camp out underground (had it all fixed up you know) and we had a trap door that had sod on top and we could lock it from the inside.

So, our Rat Patrol mission was to sneak up on the big kids parking, shine a flash light on them, yell, rock the car and take off. Many just took off, some got out (after getting presentable which gave us a head start) and some tried running us down out there, lots of fun. We run and disappear like a rabbit, down the rabbit hole watching them from under the trap door. There were some who thought we had left and got back to their business, well, they got another visit! 

So, the moral of that story is, a hole in the ground should be safe and a place to hide out, nothing else, it is not a good fighting position, in fact it's a really bad idea to attempt to defend such a position without a supportive defensive line. I don't want to get caught up in this fantasy stuff, but I'd love it if my enemy was in a hole in the ground with one way out.

Use logs, in a few years you can rebuild your roof, they will rot, cypress might be good, cedar as well, anything else untreated will be a maintenance issue. Put down logs, then plastic sheet then dirt, it will be air tight, rain will drain to the sides and soak the walls if not designed well, a wall collapse means the ceiling falls in on you, better frame it up. Air becomes stale, smelling earth will make you think you're a worm, you need a good air shaft and ventilation, especially if you heat it. Speaking of ventilation, you planning on staying down there with a porta-pottie, oh wow, gag...

An old root cellar can be great, a place to dodge a tornado, keep supplies, sleep and hide, but not much more.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Deathdealer said:


> I have it about 7 feet deep! I have some trees an great logs I marked for my walls and roof once I have the hole finished I'll start cutting


See if you can scare up some old railroad ties that are still in decent shape. Stand them up on end. They last a long time in underground shelters like yours.

What will you do to control water in your pit?


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

Like to get my fresh water or to keep the rain water out?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Deathdealer said:


> ... or to keep the rain water out?


Rainwater, and groundwater. Living in dampness really sucks.


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

A neighbor of mine just re did his brick patio and there's nothing wrong with the old bricks so he gave them to me to use for what ever right now I have about 5 pallets of bricks for free and they stand about 5 feet high each so I am hoping I have enough for my walls and a floor! And for the rain water I'm thinking of putting the thick ass logs I have on first they are about the size of telephone poles! Then a few tarps and then the earth I took out I'm hoping I could get something to put on the logs to make them more water resistant but right now I'm looking around for a product that would coat and make a good seal! 


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I'd just buy a tent. I wouldn't spend $300 to build a temporary structure.


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

So far I haven't spent a dime on this structure just back breaking labor 


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Deathdealer said:


> So far I haven't spent a dime on this structure just back breaking labor


Post pics of the progress of your labor.


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I will once I get back from vacation!


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

My local craigslist often has cinderblocks for free. That would be easy to build with, but would require a footing for them to rest on.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

BillS said:


> I'd just buy a tent. I wouldn't spend $300 to build a temporary structure.


A tent!

The tornado proof, hidden, temperature controlled, defensive fighting position to die for.


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

it only needs to be 30" square and 7 ft long (per person) you can deepen and widen and lengthen it after shtf (while staying out of sight) If you dig it in daylight, and don't hide the excavated dirt, count on too many people knowing about it. do not store your food in dugout (pre or post shtf), cause it will attact dogs, which will attract people. 

Just bury a couple of drums of food, and leave the rest of the drums in a public storage unit, close to the edge of town, on the side toward your caches/dugout. if shtf, at night, you can cut the fence, access your drums, and use a bicycle to walk them some place out of sight, where you can hide them (temporarily) and guard them, until you can cache them elswhere. YOu gotta put them on pallets, with 2 layers of ratwire around the plastic drums, or have metal drums, or have rodents gnaw holes in them and contaminated all your food.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

Deathdealer said:


> My only question is how thick of logs should I use for the walls and for the roofing to make it safe reminder I'm putting earth back on top of the logs for a roofing too and how deep should I make it? Make it to where I can fully stand up or like a crouching hight?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


Not logs, used phone poles, they are treated & cover them with 6 mill plastic sheets, 1/2 foam insulation sheets & cover that with roll roofing, more 6 mill plastic sheets, then soil.
How deep...that is time & money, but I would build a root cellar out of block.

My MAG/BOL has nine fellow preppers around it.
This was a family property, that was cut up into 6 parts, so I will not be alone.
We are going to raise & protect most of what we eat, try to save the stores for crop failure & the 6-12 months with no game to hunt.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Deathdealer said:


> A neighbor of mine just re did his brick patio and there's nothing wrong with the old bricks so he gave them to me to use for what ever right now I have about 5 pallets of bricks for free and they stand about 5 feet high each so I am hoping I have enough for my walls and a floor! And for the rain water I'm thinking of putting the thick ass logs I have on first they are about the size of telephone poles! Then a few tarps and then the earth I took out I'm hoping I could get something to put on the logs to make them more water resistant but right now I'm looking around for a product that would coat and make a good seal!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


First, remove all the bark from the logs. Then paint the logs with at least three coats of a mixture of equal parts diesel and used crankcase oil. Let it dry between coats.

After laying the logs across the hole ***** the gaps with small branches then cover with a layer of dirt to protect the first tarp. Cover this tarp with a mound of dirt so that the next tarp will direct the water away from the bunker. Lather, rinse, repeat to your hearts content. Your last layer will be dirt and then covered with the same ground cover as the surrounding area.

You will need ventilation so figure a way to hide that feature as well as the entry. You may want to consider a second emergency exit.


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

there will be no game to hunt, PERIOD, a few months after shtf, guys. There's 100+ million dogs and cats in the USA, which can't be fed if shtf. They'll go hunting. People will trap and shoot the game that the dogs chase around. the livestock and stored grain won't last a month. Then the freshwater fish will all be gone, along with all the known edible wild plants. 

Just google up an almanac and see how much food we import, then how much your state imports. if shtf, people shootig people on site, it won't do you a lick of good if there's an 18 wheeler of food 10 short miles away. One thing, you'll never learn about it, and two, you'll never get it back to where you need it. if you could get to it, you'd have to bury a lot of it and just live in that area, and you'lll need drums for that, or at least, plastic bags and ratwire.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

besign said:


> there will be no game to hunt, PERIOD, a few months after shtf, guys. There's 100+ million dogs and cats in the USA, which can't be fed if shtf. They'll go hunting. People will trap and shoot the game that the dogs chase around. the livestock and stored grain won't last a month. Then the freshwater fish will all be gone, along with all the known edible wild plants.
> 
> Just google up an almanac and see how much food we import, then how much your state imports. if shtf, people shootig people on site, it won't do you a lick of good if there's an 18 wheeler of food 10 short miles away. One thing, you'll never learn about it, and two, you'll never get it back to where you need it. if you could get to it, you'd have to bury a lot of it and just live in that area, and you'lll need drums for that, or at least, plastic bags and ratwire.


Are you saying:
Let just kill ourselves & get it over with now???

If all of this is true & the SHTF, then we will live off thing that the common people to not know is good to eat.
Can you name a few of these?


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

you never heard of caching food, then, (after a year and nearly everyone is dead) growing sprouts, hmm? scatter hide the (small) plots,and make them subsurface, so they're hard to spot. Locating them in the center of brush piles, if possible, or at least, brushy thickets at the top of hills


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

and yes, 90% might as well suicide, cause they just aint got what it takes.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

besign said:


> you never heard of caching food, then, (after a year and nearly everyone is dead) growing sprouts, hmm? scatter hide the (small) plots,and make them subsurface, so they're hard to spot. Locating them in the center of brush piles, if possible, or at least, brushy thickets at the top of hills


I was thinking of wild herbs & weeds that 90% of the people would look at & move on.
Are the small plots going to be unfindable too.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

besign said:


> there will be no game to hunt, PERIOD, a few months after shtf, guys. There's 100+ million dogs and cats in the USA, which can't be fed if shtf. They'll go hunting. People will trap and shoot the game that the dogs chase around. the livestock and stored grain won't last a month. Then the freshwater fish will all be gone, along with all the known edible wild plants.
> 
> Just google up an almanac and see how much food we import, then how much your state imports. if shtf, people shootig people on site, it won't do you a lick of good if there's an 18 wheeler of food 10 short miles away. One thing, you'll never learn about it, and two, you'll never get it back to where you need it. if you could get to it, you'd have to bury a lot of it and just live in that area, and you'lll need drums for that, or at least, plastic bags and ratwire.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

besign said:


> there will be no game to hunt, PERIOD, a few months after shtf, guys. There's 100+ million dogs and cats in the USA, which can't be fed if shtf. They'll go hunting. People will trap and shoot the game that the dogs chase around. the livestock and stored grain won't last a month. Then the freshwater fish will all be gone, along with all the known edible wild plants.
> 
> Just google up an almanac and see how much food we import, then how much your state imports. if shtf, people shootig people on site, it won't do you a lick of good if there's an 18 wheeler of food 10 short miles away. One thing, you'll never learn about it, and two, you'll never get it back to where you need it. if you could get to it, you'd have to bury a lot of it and just live in that area, and you'lll need drums for that, or at least, plastic bags and ratwire.


You are an absolute, complete IDIOT. Have you EVER in your miserable life hunted, foraged or fished for ANYTHING other than a McDonalds Cheeseburger or a bag of Corn Chips? I doubt it! I seriously doubt that you could find water if you fell out of a boat, let alone survive in any kind of environment, other than your living room, and perched on your sofa like a TROLL watching Naked and Afraid, and munching potato chips. It has become VERY obvious to all of us that you are a no nothing HACK who doesn't know the first thing about being prepared. You are a total waste of space and resources, so GO AWAY.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

besign said:


> and yes, 90% might as well suicide, cause they just aint got what it takes.


The world as we know it just ended. You go first. I'll be right behind you


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

He makes one good point: 
Feral dogs will be a problem. 
A BIG one.

I have the problem now BAD, and it is a long way from SHTF....

I have seen a pack of wild dogs kill goats (easily!) and even young cows, right here in Texas - and not too far from town. Protecting your livestock from dogs will be a big challenge. 

A big enough pack could kill a full grown cow I am sure - 
I have never seen it, but I am sure it can happen.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

But in a true shtf situation, dog would make a fine meal. They are eaten in other parts of the world


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

HardCider said:


> But in a true shtf situation, dog would make a fine meal. They are eaten in other parts of the world


I agree, but they can be very difficult to hunt. 
If you have ever hunted down feral dog you know how much of a challenge they can pose.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

besign said:


> and yes, 90% might as well suicide, cause they just aint got what it takes.


Don't ever underestimate nature. Take turtles for example.... Did you know turtles can breathe out of their ass? and you have evolved to be able to talk out of yours. Amazing!!!!


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

hashbrown said:


> Don't ever underestimate nature. Take turtles for example.... Did you know turtles can breathe out of their ass? and you have evolved to be able to talk out of yours. Amazing!!!!


ROFLMAO!!!!!! Liking it just wasn't enough!


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

not everybody is as limited as you guys, but that's beyond your ken.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

besign said:


> not everybody is as limited as you guys, but that's beyond your ken.


WOW you must have stayed up all night to come up with that response. Don't go away mad, just go away.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

besign said:


> not everybody is as limited as you guys, but that's beyond your ken.


You put out a few good posts and I thought I'd watch your posts with interest. Then you started with your rude and ridiculous posts and I decided that you were just another troll. You have lost all credibility in my eyes. If you change your manner of posting you might be able to regain my respect but it will take a significant time of serious posts.

This is my last response to your posts. I'd rather not feed the trolls.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

LincTex said:


> I agree, but they can be very difficult to hunt.
> If you have ever hunted down feral dog you know how much of a challenge they can pose.


We had a doberman killing deer and trying to dig under the sheep fence. When the dog ran into a yard where the bosses kids were playing, it was time he disappeared. Took all summer but a farm hand across the creek called us one day and said he jumped him down at their point. Dog started swimming across the river but saw us coming, turned and swam right down the middle almost all the way back to the farm he came from. They can be tricky


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

HardCider said:


> They can be tricky


Feral dogs combine both natural "wild" instinct... as well as "knowledge and experience" with humans (which varies from dog to dog) - and combine the two to make a VERY tricky animal to outsmart.

Just because a person is experienced hunting coyotes doesn't mean they will be a good hunter of feral dogs.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

camo2460 said:


> You are an absolute, complete IDIOT. Have you EVER in your miserable life hunted, foraged or fished for ANYTHING other than a McDonalds Cheeseburger or a bag of Corn Chips? I doubt it! I seriously doubt that you could find water if you fell out of a boat, let alone survive in any kind of environment, other than your living room, and perched on your sofa like a TROLL watching Naked and Afraid, and munching potato chips. It has become VERY obvious to all of us that you are a no nothing HACK who doesn't know the first thing about being prepared. You are a total waste of space and resources, so GO AWAY.


Naked and afraid? That's how I felt last time I stayed in a Holiday Inn.....:wave:


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hashbrown said:


> Naked and afraid? That's how I felt last time I stayed in a Holiday Inn.....:wave:


I don't know about afraid but naked seems part and parcel of a hotel stay. :wave:


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