# Gasoline powered freezer?



## horseman09

Has anyone had any experience or thoughts regarding replacing the electric motor that runs your freezer compressor (if TSHTF) with a small lawn mower sized gasoline engine. Aside from the inconvenience of having to run it for ??? half a day ??? then shut it down, etc., it seems as though it should work.

Any words of wisdom out there?


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## ZoomZoom

I think you'll find you go through more fuel than what it's worth.

My logic/thoughts are as follows.
A small mower engine is in the 3-5 hp range.
A fridge motor is 1/3 - 1/2 hp.

A small generator (let's say 1200w) with that same 3-5 hp engine can generate enough electric to power that fridge as well as other things. Once the fridge is running, it's only drawing about 300w so you have 900 other watts to play with (to power other things) for the same amount of fuel.


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## Woody

There are propane refrigerators out there. Had an old ammonia gas one in an old truck camper I had. If you didn’t open the door at least twice a day everything froze. Never ran on more than just the pilot light too! Damn fine piece of equipment it was. You can buy new bottled gas refrigerators and freezers, check online.


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## horseman09

Thanks, bc, but to be honest, I was going to use woodgas for fuel. I referred to a gasoline engine because that's what mower engines are designed for and for symplicity on phrasing the post. Our freezer is rated at 550 watts -- don't know what the startup surge is. Old 2 or 3 horse lawn mower engines are a dime a dozen, so I thought if I could run a freezer off of a Briggs using woodgas in a SHTF situation, that would be less wear and tear on a genreator which is a rather critical piece of equipment. My big generator is a trifuel, meaning it can run off gasoline, propane or natural gas. Natural gas is a close equivalent of wood gas. 

I figure that if TSHTF, I'd use the big generator for an hour every other day to run the water pump, recharge the various batteries, etc, and use the little easily replaceable Briggs to run the freezer. I'd have to rig up a clutch to get it started before engaging the compressor , tho.

Also, by using wood gas to run the generator, freezer and the tractor, I'd be saving precious gasoline for the chain saw or emergency use of a car or truck.


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## horseman09

Woody said:


> There are propane refrigerators out there. Had an old ammonia gas one in an old truck camper I had. If you didn't open the door at least twice a day everything froze. Never ran on more than just the pilot light too! Damn fine piece of equipment it was. You can buy new bottled gas refrigerators and freezers, check online.


Thanks, Woody, for the input. I'd thought about a gas freezer, but per my post above, I don't think it will run on natural gas or wood gas. They are pretty darned cool, but also pretty darned expensive.


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## ZoomZoom

OK, your elaborated description changes things.

I can't help you one it comes to that level of refrigeration and clutches and such as well as dealing with wood gas.

My backup fridges are 12v that I'd run off batteries.


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## bunkerbob

horseman09 said:


> Has anyone had any experience or thoughts regarding replacing the electric motor that runs your freezer compressor (if TSHTF) with a small lawn mower sized gasoline engine. Aside from the inconvenience of having to run it for ??? half a day ??? then shut it down, etc., it seems as though it should work.
> 
> Any words of wisdom out there?


I'm not sure if the compatibility of using a gasoline engine would be worth the effort, not only in fuel use but the engineering aspect. A lawn mower engine would be a overkill with shear power, the compressors use a very small electric motor to run. Not to say it couldn't be done though.
I think a solar powered unit, although expensive would be more economical. Solar-powered refrigerators by Jeffrey Yago, P.E., CEM Issue #102
How about this antique... http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/07/solar_powered_r_2.php


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## gypsysue

I think MY back-up plan would be to keep the freezer cold with a generator off and on over the day/days, and have all my canners running round the clock getting everything in jars! I understand about freezers, though. Hard to make meatloaf or fried chicken from meat out of a jar. But if the power was never going to come back on...


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## allen_idaho

Fried chicken is an easy fix. Just raise chickens. Kill and pluck as needed. You can't beat that kind of freshness.


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## mosquitomountainman

Most refrigerators and freezers are expected to run about thirty percent of the time. The best way to start out would be to run your compressor or generator for one hour out of every three (one hour on, two hours off) until you see if that's adequate. A lot will depend on outside temperature, freezer temperature and location and how much is actually in the freezer/fridge.

A home freezer/fridge has a sealed compressor/motor assembly and would be difficult to convert to a gas engine. A commercial unit designed for walk-in freezers or refrigerated trailers wouldn't be too hard to convert to a gasoline engine.


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## horseman09

The unit we plan on modifying is an older spare chest freezer that has the motor/compressor unit accessible through a removable grill on the right rear.

We can lots of stuff, but there are lots of cold weather veggies that are not canable, e.g. brocolli, caulaflower, b. sprouts, etc. The only way I know of to keep them long term is the freezer. Hence, a freezer that would run off wood gas -- of which we would have a more than ample longterm supply. 

The other reason I wanted a wood gas-operated freezer is the possibility of having access to large quantities of meat. If a few dairy farms in the area suddenly had no electricity and had to dispose of some cows, they could be butchered and boned out, popped in the freezer until we could catch up with the canning and jerky-making process. (Just try milking 125 head of cows twice a day by hand, then have to dump most of the milk because there is no way to cool or ship it.)


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## mosquitomountainman

We've dehydrated broccoli, celery, etc. It's okay for stews and soups but not a good way to do it if you like them fresh or frozen. Canned brussel sprouts are okay.

If you do it let us know how it turns out.


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## longtime

These are on my list, just have not gotten around to them yet. Both look very promising for refrigeration without electricity.

Home Built IcyBall
Mai Pen Arai


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## Tirediron

The fueled motor freezer is an interesting idea, I have been bouncing a similar plan around in my head for a while, But more of a "room" with a large freezer area at the bottom and then a refridgerator area higher with adjustable insulation "plates in between. (perfectly clear in my head) 
The idea is to have the freezer area below the bottom of the enterance door to prevent the cold from escaping each time the door / air lock is opened. 
I plan on using 2 independant refridgerant systems each large enough to operate the "freezer" each removable from the outside for service if nessicary
As well as a weather loop cooling circuit to take advantage of winter cold here in the north 
Building a system like this would be a fair bit of work but in the event of a financial /grid/war/..../ crash having a good working knowledge of the system and how to repair it would be huge, Right now it would be cheaper to buy made in china freezers and gens , but what value would you get?? :beercheer:


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## The_Blob

wouldn't buying a small used genset (with a blown engine perhaps  ) & putting the lawnmower engine on it be a better use of the engine? you could power much more than just the freezer then...

just my 2 cents


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## OldCootHillbilly

Does this unit have a belt driven compressor? If not the motor an compressor er totally enclosed in a can.

If it is a belt drive, yeah ya can run it with anything ya can put a belt on.


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## horseman09

The_Blob said:


> wouldn't buying a small used genset (with a blown engine perhaps  ) & putting the lawnmower engine on it be a better use of the engine? you could power much more than just the freezer then...
> 
> just my 2 cents


I liked the idea of using a 1 or 2 horse on a direct drive to the compressor because omitting the gen would be one less link to break down and lawn mowers engines are a dime a dozen.


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## Tirediron

No one wants to think outside the box
A conventional chest freezer has the evaporator (cooling ) seperated from the condenser (removes the heat of compressing) seperated by a wall of insulation
If you took the condenser outside of the housing and cooled it with a fan driven by your Salvaged motor which would also drive a belt driven compressor , also salvaged somewhere maybe small car? , by only using the freezer's origonal evaporator ,you prolly increase the efficiency several fold and can run the engine for one superfreeze cycle a day or if you add insulation maybe every second day. 
If you modify it your self , you can fix it your self and that is key in a post shtf or just self suficient world Where sweat / research equity pay back instead of feeding a group of middlemen(women):2thumb:


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## The_Blob

I've pickled/canned cauliflower (delicious) before, but idk about broccoli...


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## HozayBuck

mosquitomountainman said:


> We've dehydrated broccoli, celery, etc. It's okay for stews and soups but not a good way to do it if you like them fresh or frozen. Canned brussel sprouts are okay.
> 
> If you do it let us know how it turns out.


Canned Brussel Sprouts??????????? Dude them lil cabbage balls ain't food! they's small rifle targets!.. I'm forced to eat them once in a while so's not to be a bad example but I'd rather eat Ham and lima beans outta the green can for a month!

GS yer gonna have to start censoring his posts!! :club: there could be kids reading this stuff!!:sssh:


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## horseman09

Tirediron said:


> No one wants to think outside the box
> A conventional chest freezer has the evaporator (cooling ) seperated from the condenser (removes the heat of compressing) seperated by a wall of insulation
> If you took the condenser outside of the housing and cooled it with a fan driven by your Salvaged motor which would also drive a belt driven compressor , also salvaged somewhere maybe small car? , by only using the freezer's origonal evaporator ,you prolly increase the efficiency several fold and can run the engine for one superfreeze cycle a day or if you add insulation maybe every second day.
> If you modify it your self , you can fix it your self and that is key in a post shtf or just self suficient world Where sweat / research equity pay back instead of feeding a group of middlemen(women):2thumb:


I'd say direct driving a freezer compressor with a small engine running on wood gas is thinking outside the box.

The problem with moving the condenser is:

1. The total loss of coolant because you have to open the line to move it.
2. Buying the equipment to evacuate the line.
3. Buying the replacement coolant and the equipment to recharge the system.
4. Taking the time to learn HVAC to do all of the above.


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## Tirediron

I was poking at the generator solution guys, but if your current system is intact and working they are prolly right, the unit compressors are hermeticlly sealed and thus if you open one up to install a pullley you have refridgerant loss already, The solution to the sealed unit problem is prolly more greif than the outside condenser/ motor / compressor plan , But this did get me thinking about a wood gas /alternative fuel system that could be run once a day or maybe every second day, 
I definatly see your thinking as far as keeping it as simple as possible with direct drive , Unless by some rare chance your spare freezer has an external motor , don't think there is much chance of that though.
If you were able to find a "propane " freezer you could rejet it to work with very clean cool wood gas, the absorptive style systems are controled by the amount of heat applied to the boiler, they work on the same principle as the iceball posted earlier
If you choose the salvage generator route, the smaller 1200-1800 W colemans sometimes had a Delco SI10 alternator as the base for the charging unit, so something like that could provide power with easily salvageable parts


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## LincTex

You would have much better success at adapting a clutched automotive A/C compressor than trying to adpat the original compressor (nearly impossible).

You will need to know a lot about refrigeration, because you will need to determine the proper size restrictor orifice, the proper charge of refrigerant, etc.

An external condenser is the ideal soultion, since you will not be able to break into the original compressor without losing the refrigerant anyway. It would be best to add additional insulation to the outside of the freezer at that point.

This is doable.....but you would be better off building an entirely new freezer from scratch with all of the variables idealized for the specific application. 

I have kicked around this idea for a long time....... but I was thinking of using a windmill to turn the compressor (old style line shaft system, also runs flour mill and my shop). A clutched system with alternate drive source would let me run it with a small diesel on days the wind doesn't blow. I am also using a wood gas generator to pipe into the intake of the diesel engine so I don't burn very much liquid fuel.


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## MyBackAchers

*Ice house*

Why not just make an old fashioned ice house?

An insulated room on all sides with barrels of anti-freeze that get frozen solid in the winter would serve its purpose most of the year. How long depends on where you are for climate and how much you can get frozen over winter.


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## Tirediron

The ice house type concept has been done Daystar: The Four Mile Island Icebox
I don't know it anti freeze would be as efficient as water, the change of state solid(ice) to a liquid requires extra energy, but maybe is isn't enough to matter


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## Nadja

Running your freezer on a gas engine. Well, fine if the engine is outside and not where you breath . Carbon Monoxide will kill you and very fast . Much cheaper to maintain a small gennie and convert that if you wish to run on wood gas. I live on solar , and so, I unplug my refer/freezer and my chest freezer at night. Actually I have them on a timer so I don't forget like I did once. Solar, although very expensive to get started with it will run your entire house is a much more effective system then anything gas or fuel related or dependant. Solar , once you have it and the bugs worked out, is quiet, no fuel required, no oil or oil changes and is for the most part trouble free. If you put a system in with no idea's of what your doing, then it is going to be a trouble item for quite awhile. Having said that, if it is done right, you are set for a very long time.


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## Magus

horseman09 said:


> Has anyone had any experience or thoughts regarding replacing the electric motor that runs your freezer compressor (if TSHTF) with a small lawn mower sized gasoline engine. Aside from the inconvenience of having to run it for ??? half a day ??? then shut it down, etc., it seems as though it should work.
> 
> Any words of wisdom out there?


I seem to recall at one time there were natural gas powered freezers.
back in the 50's I think?


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## Tirediron

Magus said:


> I seem to recall at one time there were natural gas powered freezers.
> back in the 50's I think?


Most freezers/ fridges powered by some thing other than electicity are not of the compressor-condensor-evaporator type ,but of the absorptive heat powered type. the same as multi powered RV fridge freezers.

An engine powered compressor type cooling unit would still be the most efficient cooling / per input unit other than solar power that was already paid for. And probably would be user built and so would be user repairable.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> An engine powered compressor type cooling unit would still be the most efficient cooling / per input unit other than solar power that was already paid for.


If you are Lance Armstrong you can do "Pedal Powered"!


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## Tirediron

@ LincTex Your answer is probably more viable than most would expect, With a well matched compressor and a good heat sink 10 min on a "compressor cizor" bike would provide a fair bit of heat removal.


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## LincTex

Tirediron said:


> @ LincTex Your answer is probably more viable than most would expect, With a well matched compressor and a good heat sink 10 min on a "compressor cizor" bike would provide a fair bit of heat removal.


I have a "dorm fridge" in the bedroom that is about 3-4 cubic foot or so... I think it draws only about 100 watts when running (I have yet to measure it but I know it isn't a LOT). You could pedal enough every few hours to keep it cool easily enough. I wonder how much pedaling is needed to keep my 18 Cu ft Fridge/Freezer in the kitchen going.

Even better would be the really efficient SunDanzer freezers and such.... it takes very little math to see how much you can actually do. If you have a "real" generator attached to the exer-bike and not a ~30% efficient car alternator, you could actuallly make some usable electricity.


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