# Surviving cold in grid down



## dixiemama

I know there is on on heat, but what about cold? You can layer clothes, huddle in small group or build a fire. Frostbite is just as dangerous as heat stroke. People who live above the Mason Dixon line get some pretty cold winters. Anyone stocking extra clothes in a few sizes and blankets?


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## Sentry18

I buy up military surplus wool blankets whenever I can. In the spring (clearance time) I buy up wool socks and other wool cold weather gear (sweaters, hats, gloves, etc.). Since we live in the great white winter wonderland we already have an ample amount of cold weather clothing. For the house I have several propane tanks and heaters and a special heavily insulated "warm room". After that I will switch to small generators and electric heaters. After that I will assemble a rocket stove heater and start burning anything and everything I can (including the large wood pile out back). This is an area that I do not feel completely prepared in yet, but I am making progress.


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## Rainy13

yep, i try and get blankets as they go on sale, and gloves and hats and all those type things...

I have a drawer full of socks's that could be use as mittlens if neeeded.
We have a small propane heater also.....

If you can hang on another few weeks as far as blankets, they should mark them down as soon as Christmas is over.


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## goshengirl

Two and a half yards of fleece makes a warm blanket, no sewing required. (Okay, so the selvage is ugly, but I figure I can worry about that later....) Sign up for emails from your nearest fabric store(s) and you'll know when fleece goes on sale (it's currently 50% off at my nearest JoAnn's right now, yeay!).

And we're a big believers in a woodburning stove. Part of that is our location, though. We have a few acres of woods, and have yet to need to actually cut down a tree just for wood - there's so much still in our woods that's fallen naturally and we've been able to harvest, and there's a lot of wood from other folks' houses, too, from when they've cut down trees (or we've cut down for them). I'm not sure what I'd think about a woodburning stove if firewood weren't so plentiful for us...


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## LincTex

dixiemama said:


> I know there is on on heat, but what about cold? You can layer clothes, huddle in small group or build a fire.


I have good winter gear for outside and plenty of wood to burn in the stove for inside 

Now, staying cool in the summer is a chore...


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## hiwall

I lived in the frozen expanse called Minnesota for many years. Cold is hard to deal with. Yes you can survive and I have camped in below zero conditions(but I didn't like it!!). Remember everything you have that contains water can and will freeze. Canned goods will freeze and burst. Drinking water must be kept close to your body when hiking so it remains liquid. Everything (even metal) gets very brittle in the cold (your stuff WILL break). Good for splitting wood( it splits much easier when very cold). Hard on all motors(gas, diesel, or electric), everything turns hard and lubrication only happens when things warm up. Batteries lose alot of their power(both wet cell and dry cell). I discovered the best method to deal with the cold - I moved to Arizona.


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## live4ever

hiwall said:


> I lived in the frozen expanse called Minnesota for many years. Cold is hard to deal with. Yes you can survive and I have camped in below zero conditions(but I didn't like it!!). Remember everything you have that contains water can and will freeze. Canned goods will freeze and burst. Drinking water must be kept close to your body when hiking so it remains liquid. Everything (even metal) gets very brittle in the cold (your stuff WILL break). Good for splitting wood( it splits much easier when very cold). Hard on all motors(gas, diesel, or electric), everything turns hard and lubrication only happens when things warm up. Batteries lose alot of their power(both wet cell and dry cell). I discovered the best method to deal with the cold - I moved to Arizona.


Very good move


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## MsSage

Here we lose power atleast once a winter. in a pinch I light a couple jar candles and close the door to my bedroom and it warms up nice and toasty. Mind you I dont have small children and put the cats out and out of reach of the dogs. Long term I am working on getting a wood stove. 
But if you find yourself out and about its a quick heat source. I have a couple large tea candles and a large fruit can in my truck. S/O thinks I am crazy since I live only 7 miles from home....and if its that bad I wont be leaving the facility due to no relief. They have a generator and will have heat and lights and 2 trailers for staff to use.
If all else fails ....I have totes full of fabric and flannel I use for quilts.


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## IlliniWarrior

hiwall said:


> I lived in the frozen expanse called Minnesota for many years. Cold is hard to deal with. Yes you can survive and I have camped in below zero conditions(but I didn't like it!!). Remember everything you have that contains water can and will freeze. Canned goods will freeze and burst. Drinking water must be kept close to your body when hiking so it remains liquid. Everything (even metal) gets very brittle in the cold (your stuff WILL break). Good for splitting wood( it splits much easier when very cold). Hard on all motors(gas, diesel, or electric), everything turns hard and lubrication only happens when things warm up. Batteries lose alot of their power(both wet cell and dry cell). I discovered the best method to deal with the cold - I moved to Arizona.


maybe MN will send you some water come SHTF time ....


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## Bobbb

If the cold spell has to be endured for some extended period of time, then the strategy should be to isolate parts of your home for heating and to leave other parts unheated. 

I have some soapstone bedwarmers that I can use if the situation becomes dire. Place there anywhere hear a heat source and they soak up heat. Put them in the bed and they're not hot and they release heat slowly, and this when combined with the heat insulating aspects of blankets plus body heat should work well in a non-heated bedroom during a cold spell.


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## PrepN4Good

Bobbb said:


> I have some soapstone bedwarmers that I can use if the situation becomes dire. Place there anywhere hear a heat source and they soak up heat. Put them in the bed and they're not hot and they release heat slowly, and this when combined with the heat insulating aspects of blankets plus body heat should work well in a non-heated bedroom during a cold spell.


Didn't folks use bricks for this in the old days? Regular old masonry bricks, heated near a fire & wrapped in some kind of fabric.

I once wondered if you could use large baking potatoes for this...they seem to hold the heat so well (at least, it seems to take forever for them to cool down when you're waiting to make tater skins).


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## jsriley5

Ha have used hot tater heat pads lotsz of times for muscle aches back pains and with a wet rag to draw out boils. And with a damp rag for ear aches as well. taters do make good heaters  I hav also used concrete blocks to heat in a fire and put under army cots when camping outside tentless on a army cat. won't last all night but is really nice to help you get the bag warmed up.


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## Bobbb

PrepN4Good said:


> Didn't folks use bricks for this in the old days? Regular old masonry bricks, heated near a fire & wrapped in some kind of fabric.
> 
> I once wondered if you could use large baking potatoes for this...they seem to hold the heat so well (at least, it seems to take forever for them to cool down when you're waiting to make tater skins).


Bricks, and bedwarming pans filled with spent coals.

Soapstone though is ideal. It can retain heat more efficiently than bricks. Then it releases heat more slowly.


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## Bobbb

We also have a number of those sodium acetate reheater pads. You click a little metal disk, that starts a chemical chain reaction. The saturated salt in liquid turns solid and heats up. After it cools you put the pad in boiling water and the salt dissolves.


How to make hot ice.


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## Country Living

That's why we put a wood stove in the house. Plus we have lots of hardwoods - and at least a couple of fallen trees each year - so we have a replenishable supply of wood.


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## pixieduster

I have been keeping eye on this beautiful cast iron stove/heater. My fear is having my 3 year old around it and getting burned. How have y'all handled safety issues?


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## Tex

3 families, 3 chain saws, a tractor, a trailer, and about 8 hours got us 5-6 cords of wood. The 1 1/2 cords my family got should last the whole winter in TX.










We recently inherited a wood burning stove insert. As soon as we figure out what we need to adapt it to my fireplace, we'll be in business.


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## GrinnanBarrett

We purchased ten and fifteen degree king size bags a long time back. We have liners for each one that take them down below zero if needed. 

We bought a number of the Gortex woodland military issue tops and bottoms as well. I want to be able to layer on clothing for warmth and dry. 

We have heavy duty plastic sheeting we can use to seal off the central part of the house around the central fireplace. Lets us maximize the heat without losing it to unused areas. 

Windows are always a big problem even when you caulk like crazy. The glass is a big cold conductor. We cut insulated board to fit in primary area windows. These had to be numbered so we did not waste time trying to fit at last minute. 

We are fortunate here in NE Texas in that temps can drop down into lower teens but it is unusual to see below zero here. GB


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## Country Living

pixieduster said:


> I have been keeping eye on this beautiful cast iron stove/heater. My fear is having my 3 year old around it and getting burned. How have y'all handled safety issues?


We put a line around the stove using blue tape and the young 'uns stayed on this side of it. We measured how tall they were and added about 6" and that's how far the tape was from the stove.

They essentially had 2/3rds of the room in which to play and the other 1/3rd - with the stove - was off limits.

You could also make a little fence, put up baby gates, there are all kinds of barriers. We found the most effective tool was not making a big deal of the stove. Lots of things in the house were off limits for various reasons and this was simply one of them.


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## Country Living

Tex said:


> 3 families, 3 chain saws, a tractor, a trailer, and about 8 hours got us 5-6 cords of wood. The 1 1/2 cords my family got should last the whole winter in TX.....


Yeah... we had one of those when Hurricane Ike came blowing through here. It was a huge red oak tree and we cut on it for months. The base of the trunk is still lying where the tree fell. It's now a critter haven.

The lesson learned from that event was we needed a bigger log splitter so we got a 37 ton from Northern. Even then we had to wait two years for the wood to dry enough to split the big chunks.


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## Lake Windsong

PrepN4Good said:


> Didn't folks use bricks for this in the old days? Regular old masonry bricks, heated near a fire & wrapped in some kind of fabric.
> 
> I once wondered if you could use large baking potatoes for this...they seem to hold the heat so well (at least, it seems to take forever for them to cool down when you're waiting to make tater skins).


Was it Laura Ingalls whose ma put baked potatoes in their coat pockets when they had to walk to school in winter? I remember the story, don't remember the book.


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## LincTex

pixieduster said:


> I have been keeping eye on this beautiful cast iron stove/heater. My fear is having my 3 year old around it and getting burned. How have y'all handled safety issues?


You could buy a couple of folding screens (about $50 each) and secure them together to build a "perimeter fence".

My 20-month-old baby girl was introduced to the wood stove a few weeks ago. For starters, it has a glass door, which is a visual indicator of what's going on inside (a good thing). The first time I lit a fire in it, she watched the whole process the entire time.

Then when it was JUST warm enough to where you wouldn't want to leave your hand on for very long, but NOT hot enough to burn it, I put her hand on it so she could see how warm it really is. She did not like that.... but she has NEVER got close enough to touch it! She does like to watch the fire inside, and has lots to say about it when it is burning


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## ZoomZoom

pixieduster said:


> I have been keeping eye on this beautiful cast iron stove/heater. My fear is having my 3 year old around it and getting burned. How have y'all handled safety issues?





LincTex said:


> You could buy a couple of folding screens (about $50 each) and secure them together to build a "perimeter fence"


Here's what we used. It's pictured as a hexagon here but at every other joint, they come apart so you can put them in somewhat of a line. Also works great as a clothes dryer for when we come in from the snow. Drape your stuff over it and let the woodstove dry it.


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## ZoomZoom

We have a ton of heat sources but should we find ourselves without or lacking for some reason, instead of trying to heat a room, clear a space and put in a tent. Use the smallest size you can for what or whom you need inside since you're going to rely on body heat to keep it warm. E.g. if it's for 2 people, put in a 2, 3 or 4 man tent. Don't put in some monster Taj Mahal tent as it's too much volume to get the heat up.

If you're looking for high-end winter gear at great prices, check out www.steepandcheap.com. They sell 1 item at a time (about 20 minutes) until it's gone or the time elapses at which point they put up another item. Most items are at least 50% off.


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## BillS

We have kerosene heaters for after the collapse or for a power outage. Even then, depending on the outside temperature, it could still be cold in the house. It would take a lot of kerosene to keep a house at room temperature if it's below zero outside. We may end up dressing in layers to keep warm and covering up with blankets inside.


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## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> Here's what we used. It's pictured as a hexagon here


My wife would hate that. Too ugly.



BillS said:


> It would take a lot of kerosene to keep a house at room temperature if it's below zero outside. We may end up dressing in layers to keep warm and covering up with blankets inside.


As long as you are at least 40*-45* with good clothes you would be comfortable.


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## Claymore5150

I just finished reading, "Alaska Bound: One Man's Dream, One Woman's Nightmare" by Tammy Jones.

It shows up on the free kindle downloads thread every once in a while. 

I really enjoyed the book and it definitely gives some insight as to dealing with the extreme cold and wet in the "primitive" or "undeveloped-off the grid" environment of lower Alaska. It is definitely worth a look, especially for the "homesteader" in us.


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## jsriley5

Somthing you also have to think about when heating and "sacrificing" part of the house to just warm the others that unless you have given up ever using your inside plumbing again you will want to keep those areas at least above freezing. bathroms kitchens utility rooms and the areas the water lines run. Unless you built your house yourself and were very very careful to be sure ALL your lines can be drained back without holding any you will have water in the lines and it will freeze and burst your pipes not a big deal until you go to use it all again and have leaks everywhere. and of course porcelin will break if the tolet freezes all the sink and tub and shower drains will have a "gooseneck" in em that is designed to hold water to keep sewer gass from coming back up those will freeze and break. This is why I try to plan any house i design to have all the water clusterd together on the nterior where it will be easier to heat and I plan accesses where if all else fails I can get in at a high point and pour RV antifreeze into the system until it starts to come out at a low end also be sure to add a good amount of it to every darin so the goosnecks wont freeze and toilets. Esp for shout term you dont want your house all screwed up because the power went out and all your stuff froze up and broke


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## hiwall

I seen some houses down here for sale. Just sayin'.


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## cowboyhermit

Might as well put in my 2 cents. 
About -25 celcius around here at night right now -40 happens every year in these parts.
There is nowhere I would rather be. I can spend all day outside in -40 no problem but +30 and I just want to find a whole to crawl into. When it gets cold I just put on more clothes or light a fire but you can only get so naked especially if you are doing real work.
The most important thing for me is a set of insulated coveralls (skidoo suit). Something about the fact that it covers you from head to toe makes a world of difference. I prefer ones that are not too insulated actually because you don't want to sweat and you can always add layers underneath or over top.
Second would be either a down sleeping bag, heavy down comforter, or wool blankets, preferably all of the above. Synthetics are ok but down, wool, and furs are better imo.
Something that is particularly useful as well is a good thermos. Many of my best times involve a lot of snow, a cold wind stoking the flames of a bonfire, and a warm cup of cocoa. Few of them are at the beach.


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## Erick3758

Fuel oil furnace in the main section of the house and a propane furnace in the addition.we also have a pellet stove.that is the main source of heat.with the back up power I could run it quite a while.when all else fail we have a wood stove and we are surrounded by woods.in the winter heat is extremely important.i work out side.i think I'm a bit better with the cold than my family.


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## kappydell

*staying warm in the 'frozen' north*

i wrote this several years ago on another forum, but the techniques still work just the same...

Although it may seem premature, I am already prepping for winter. The last 50 years have been abnormally warm, so for those under 50 years old the 'normal' weather patterns are an enormous shock. Colder, snowier and longer will be the new winter norm in my part of the country, so I am reviewing my preps and cold weather survival techniques. Many are drawn from the historical past and just as relevant today. I'll tell you what has worked for me, and hopefully you have some new ideas I can try. Let's brainstorm!

I have discovered that I can allow the kitchen to get as cold as 48 degrees before my pipes start to freeze. The books I have read claim 40 degrees, but my water pipes are not very insulated, and they are on the windy side of the house, so 48 degrees is the limit for me. I have a heat lamp that I leave shining on the pipes under the sink that doubles as a night light (and the cats used to love sitting there during the cold months). Running a trickle of water worked for me to help keep the water in the pipes moving. (I have my own well, so it does not cost me extra water fees, which I am grateful for.) 48 degrees is not a bad temperature for the kitchen. Food keeps longer, and hot food cools down quickly to put into the refrigerator, which does not have to work so hard. Cooking heat is appreciated, so winter for me is a heavy baking season. The living room has the only heat source in the house, a propane space heater. But I keep that turned down too. The heat it gives off naturally goes up the stairs to help heat the bathroom pipes.

Not only does baking warm the house, but hot chow warms the body from the inside out, so my menus include more hot cereals, drinks, and soups. Some call it an old wives tale, but my experience is that it works. The military says so too in their survival manuals, so that's enough to convince me. Hot soup in the crock pot, or coffee/tea in the thermos make getting up a whole lot easier, and helps me warm up to start the day.

My landlord does put heavy rubber mats around the foundation of the house. I've tried plastic over the windows but had trouble due to the wind tearing it. (Yes, even indoors - I have a very drafty house!) In a less-windy location I would expect better success. While the plastic lasted it made an enormous difference. I have had better success with 2 inch styrofoam sheets sold at the local farm store for insulation. I cut them to just fit by friction in the window frames so they make nice night shutters. I like to open them up for sunshine during the daytime on sunny days to take advantage of sun's heat. This winter I am going to try hanging 'couche-portiers' (I think that is what they called them - a blanket or quilt hung in the doorway to restrict heat losses). They were stylish during the WW2 fuel rationing years and I imagine they might come back into style again. I will try them in the bedrooms, and hallways where I do not need much heat, so I can concentrate the heat in areas that have water pipes (bathroom and kitchen). I have heavier winterized curtains but I have to be careful not to overload my curtain rods. If the fleece fabric works well as 'couche-portiers' I can see trying it for winter curtains. It looks light enough to work well.

Another old idea that works for me is insulating my sleeping area, so the room can get cooler without bothering me. I have used newspapers under the bottom sheets of the bed (effective, but noisy and the ink rubbed off on the sheets). I had better effect putting old wool blankets under the sheet, and when I put a mylar space blanket under the wool blanket it worked even better to reflect body heat back up. The mylar does not breathe well, so I needed to air out beds daily to keep them from getting damp. (Just throw back the blankets and let the moisture evaporate. Cold air is dryer than warm air so the moisture evaporates quickly. I hate making beds anyway, so now I have an excuse not to.)
In an earlier post on cold weather warmth m0naj0 reported her family used fleece with good results on their beds, folded so they slept inside the fold and it was warm as could be. Maybe fleece could pinch-hit for wool for this use, too. For clothing, I would need to know "Does it breathe and insulate when wet and how does it wear?" It is sure easier to find now, which is ironic in these so-called "green" days, since it is a petroleum product and wool is organic.

Clothing is historically the first defense to being cold. I have adopted many historically tested concepts and keep nicely warm when everyone around me is cold. First off, headgear is critical both inside and outdoors. Look at any movie showing eras without central heat and you will see everyone wearing headgear. In colonial days women wore mob caps and fancier hood like caps. Lappets on the side (flaps hanging down to frame the face) were all the rage and remained stylish for decades. Men wore woolen caps, and stocking caps were popular for indoor wear as well as outdoors. All the way up through Victorian days everybody wore night caps while sleeping, made of fine soft wool. My nightwear for sleeping is a hoodie sweat suit, with the hood up, socks and a pair of thin knit glove and I sleep nice and toasty.

Women and men alike wore soft scarves around their necks and crossed over their chests. The scarves were easily flipped up to cover the head if needed. In some countries they were worn outside the bodice (blouse or shirt) and belted or tucked in at the waist. In other areas they were tucked inside and the blouse or shirt worn over them. Look at the national costumes of many cold countries and you will see traditional headgear and some form of scarf or stole and often a vest worn as well.

Vests allow extra warmth at the torso while giving freedom of movement. (My favorite winter outfit so far has been a vest fashioned from a sweat shirt that fit closely but not tightly. My second favorite was a short-sleeved sweatshirt, again because it was warm but still allowed ease of movement.) Fingerless gloves are not a new invention either. Claudette Colbert wore some in the winter scenes in "Drums Along the Mohawk" right along with her cap, scarf, and vest. (Check it out next time it comes on TV!)

Now to insulate my lower body, I have found that long johns are always effective, as are sweat pants under my trousers. The summer-weight lighter sweat pants make wonderful long-handles, as my dad called them. Layer a pair of tights under them and you can stay warm and toasty outdoors in 20-below weather. (I know, I did it, standing on a boat landing for hours when there were still ice floes out on the lake!!) I looked a bit pudgy, but in the cold parts of this country, the 'puffy' look is in style when it gets cold!

Skirts can be amazingly warm and comfy when it is frigid if you insulate under them. Longer skirts are actually warmest, and under them you can hide your tights, sweat pants, and outer wind-resistant trousers (not to mention your defense weapon). Flannel or wool petticoats help retain heat under the skirt too. Wear an apron that is water resistant that you 
can whip off and replace when it gets wet, to protect your clothing.

Finish off with several pairs of socks in your boots. I like a cotton layer and a wool layer over that, because wool makes my feet itch. But worn over cotton it is nice and warm and comfy. You will need bigger boots though. Test them to make sure you can wiggle your toes with both layers of socks on. If you can do so, your circulation will be good and you can better avoid frostbite. (Just ask the army 'bout that.) Of course, you might walk a bit ponderously, but if you slip you have all that extra padding to cushion your fall&#8230;..!

Never throw out anything that is made of wool or a mostly wool fabric. (The military has developed other cold weather fabrics but they are still very pricey, made of petroleum products, do not wear very long, and burn very quickly when exposed to flame unless treated. They can't even be washed without special chemicals to keep them water resistant) Wool is organic, and although a bit heavier than the new fabrics, it still is the gold standard for cold weather fabrics, because it allows moisture to evaporate through it to keep you from getting clammy-cold, insulates even when wet, and is naturally flame retardant, if you work around fire. It even stinks as it smolders as an extra alerting trait (hey, sleepy, you are on fire!). You can wash it by hand in plain old lukewarm soap and water, and it wears many years if cared for. Even old worn out clothes can be taken apart and used to line new vests or jackets, the sleeves and smaller parts cut into warm insoles to line boots and make mittens for your hands, the scraps used to fill quilts for bed covers or to make quilted coat, vest or jacket linings, and when it gets too threadbare to sew with, long wearing braided, hooked or crocheted rugs. Wool can be processed into cloth on the homestead, with hand tools, and is 'free' for the shearing. The only thing I can find that the synthetics excel at, is their light weight, and as a substitute for those who are allergic to wool. Otherwise I think wool wins hands down in practicality and price.

Well, that about sums up my personal know how on staying warm in the 'frozen north' of the upper Midwest. Hopefully you have learned or have been reminded of some good ideas that can help you stay warm and conserve some fuel (and money). I am always eager to learn more, so if you have anything that worked well for you, please speak up before the snow flies. At the rate we are going, that could be as early as October, and winter is a lot more fun if you are warm!


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## LincTex

kappydell said:


> I've tried plastic over the windows but had trouble due to the wind tearing it. (Yes, even indoors - I have a very drafty house!) In a less-windy location I would expect better success. While the plastic lasted it made an enormous difference.


This is concerning. Will the landlord let you caulk the cracks around the windows? It should *NOT* be so drafty it tears the window plastic!!! At the VERY least, get some foam packing material sheets (or even old fabric scraps.... SOMETHING!) and stuff it into the cracks with a putty knife or wooden tongue depressor. You NEED to stop that airflow to save on heating costs.


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## jadedsoul

Back when I was growing up on the farm my grandmother would take some old dried beans and pour them into a pair of wool socks. She would put the socks on the woodstove in a pot with a lid and let them warm up. When it was time to go to bed she would tuck one of them under our feet and one she would put by our chest. It always seemed to stay pretty warm all night....that is until you hit the ice cold floor in the morning.


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## ZoomZoom

LincTex said:


> This is concerning. Will the landlord let you caulk the cracks around the windows? It should *NOT* be so drafty it tears the window plastic!!! At the VERY least, get some foam packing material sheets (or even old fabric scraps.... SOMETHING!) and stuff it into the cracks with a putty knife or wooden tongue depressor. You NEED to stop that airflow to save on heating costs.


This should help significantly. I've used it a lot myself. Lowe's and/or Home Depot have it.
http://www.amazon.com/18324-Seal-Removable-Caulk-10-1-Ounce/dp/B0002YVNOQ

It's a caulk that you fill the cracks with in the fall and when spring comes, it just peals right off.

it's similar to the caulk they use to attach a credit card to a piece of paper before mailing. When you get it, you just peal the stuff right off.

Be advised: Whatever you seal won't open until the sealer is removed. E.g. If you seal up a couple sides of a window, it won't open until/unless the sealer is removed. Consider fire escapes and such before sealing everything up.


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## kilagal

We have a wood stove for heat. We also have window quilts on the windows to hold that heat in.
We have flannel sheets on the bed and wool quilts on it as well. Plus I buy a lot of flannel sheets at yard sales and thrift stores. They can always be made into warm bed clothes or flannel shirts if need be. And yes I do have a sewing machine I have converted to a treadle machine. That way I can sew regardless of power. 
I also know how to knit warm socks and have socks as well as yarn to make more as well.
My dh ice fishes so he has a ton of really warm clothes. Good thing he is the one of us that gets cold first.
We went last week and got 7 loads of firewood. And as soon as the ice is off of our friends mountain we will be back up there getting more wood. And yes I do know that it might not be till spring. But that is fine we will get it then if we have to. 
I have a steel plate on the top of my wood stove that I can cook on. So that also helps plus I cook with propane and the propane stove I have doesn't have to have power to run. Just propane. and 100# bottle of propane lasts me around 6 months of cooking from scratch all the time, baking and canning.


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## sailaway

I have to concur with everybody else north of the Mason Dixon Line, I have a fire place, wood stove, propane, Wool sweaters, long johns, flannel lined & wool trowsers, wool socks, 3 winter down sleeping bags, 3 Woolrich Wool Blankets and a big cuddly warm black lab puppy.

I also have more warm beverages and meals in the winter. I also keep my vehicles gassed up and all of the mower cans full of gas so I could stay warm in the car if I had to. Tonight after woodshop I got 2 barrells full of oak scrap, it burns fast, but it burns hot. 

Also for winter mobility I have cross country skis and snow shoes. A group of us try to use them every weekend and treck somewhere for a meal. Winter exercise will warm you up fast, but you need to layer so you can pull them off. sweat will freeze fast when the sun gets low.


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## mamak

cowboyhermit said:


> Might as well put in my 2 cents.
> About -25 celcius around here at night right now -40 happens every year in these parts.
> There is nowhere I would rather be. I can spend all day outside in -40 no problem but +30 and I just want to find a whole to crawl into. When it gets cold I just put on more clothes or light a fire but you can only get so naked especially if you are doing real work.
> The most important thing for me is a set of insulated coveralls (skidoo suit). Something about the fact that it covers you from head to toe makes a world of difference. I prefer ones that are not too insulated actually because you don't want to sweat and you can always add layers underneath or over top.
> Second would be either a down sleeping bag, heavy down comforter, or wool blankets, preferably all of the above. Synthetics are ok but down, wool, and furs are better imo.
> Something that is particularly useful as well is a good thermos. Many of my best times involve a lot of snow, a cold wind stoking the flames of a bonfire, and a warm cup of cocoa. Few of them are at the beach.


I agree. You can always use clothes, blankets, and fire to warm up. Electricity free. If it's hot, you're hot. We had a heat wave this past summer with wicked humidity and I just about lost my damn mind.  Nothing you can do about it. Of course turn the air on but I'm not counting on that. Maybe go jump in the stream or pond but not everyone has access. 
I have family in AZ. The temp reaches 70 degrees and they're putting on sweaters. They say their blood is thin. Well, I guess my blood is as thick as molasses.


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## mtexplorer

There are logistics to not freezing to death. 
Clothing-Our military has spent millions of our taxpayer dollars researching clothing for our'
troops. Take advantage of this research. Military grade cold weather gear can
be bought at Goodwill, Salvation Army and other second hand clothing stores. Or 
online from literally hundreds of websites. 

If you want to go the route of the explorers of this country, seek out the
library of of patterns used by the colonists and also the Mountain Men explorers
of the 1750-1850 fur trappers and explorers. Check out the Mountain Man
Rendezvous Event schedule/calendars and attend one of these, you will gain
wealth of information about winter gear designed and created using natural
resources provided by nature. Think WOOL, one of natures greatest gifts of 
survival

Shelter-Your home above ground will eventually reach the temperature of the air outside 
of it's walls without a heating source. Liquid fuels will eventually run out or 
become unavailable. The settlers of this country sustained themselves with wood
heat. If money is available, install a solar water heating system that will heat 
store heat during the day and can be used after sundown, logistically it won't 
provide heat all night but will offset your use of other heating sources. 
Insulation is cheap at building stores and doesn't require great knowledge to 
install, insulate, insulate, insulate. Your greatest enemy is lost heat. ?Remember 
R-Factor, the greater thickness between you and the cold is a lifesaver and an 
efficient way to maintain heat. 

Shelter Selection-If your fortunate to have a basement you already have an advantage
in survival in a grid down situation. You already have some of the best
insulation provided by nature with earth surrounding you on the walls. 
Invest in cheap insulation for the exposed ceiling area and create a
survival bunker. You can even install a wood stove with proper venting
in the basement

Just some suggestions

Hope some of this can help with your prepping

M


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## musketjim

As folks who have read some of my posts know, winter power-outage is one of the scenarios I prep for. I'm not a zombie guy or Planet-X fella. Power outages are expected up here and can get pretty hairy at 40 or 50 below. Wood is always prepared a couple years ahead, seasoned wood burns best. Had a transfer panel installed for Y2K and got a generator able to run furnace and water pump. We can separate top of house from bottom to decrease need to heat all of house. 2 small propane heaters and also kerosene heater. Bomber winter gear, sleeping bags etc. Different stoves for cooking. Heading to BOL for 9 days completely off grid with a whole new set of heating and living problems and opportunities for learning.


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## LincTex

musketjim said:


> Heading to BOL for 9 days completely off grid with a whole new set of heating and living problems and opportunities for learning.


We will want you to write a story about it!


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## bluestocking

I recently read a great book about "adapting in place," i.e. bugging in, trying to adjust our current homes/expectations to fit a new reality. It's called "Making Home" by Sharon Astyk. She has several ideas, I think an entire chapter dedicated solely to thermal regulation, both for hot and cold weather. She emphasizes layered clothing and not really caring too much about how attractive it might be (side note, I think some people not think enough about this now. I like to feel pretty too, but if it's cold, it's cold; put on a coat that will actually keep you warm versus one that "looks cute" and have your nice outfit underneath). Many other ideas too, including the warmed brick or potato etc, but the clothing is emphasized. I, for one, get cold easily, so we already have several extra blankets laying around and could easily layer up on clothes if need be.


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## dixiemama

That's me blue stocking, I freeze constantly so have a complete wardrobe of sweats and we have tons of blankets.


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## LincTex

In the winter, I keep the stove hot enough to where the living room is 80 degrees... wife is happy then! The bedroom, not so much.


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## lazydaisy67

I'm interested in those soapstone bed warmers! Do you slide them under your sheet? Do you have to have them laying on something or can they be right on your mattress?

The temp is supposed to reach a wopping 9 degrees today and tonight -10! Yuck. We'll pull the mattresses from upstairs and put them on the floor in front of the stove for the kids to sleep on because no matter how hot we make the stove, the upstairs just does not get warm.

I also would rather be cold than hot. Like the other poster said, you can only get so and so naked, :laugh: Not to be too macabre, but dying from freezing to death would be preferable to cooking to death as far as I'm concerned.


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## hiwall

"I'm interested in those soapstone bed warmers!"

You can use anything with alot of mass- -rock, metal, gold bars, water bottles, as long as it is heavy you can warm it up and it will retain that heat for awhile.


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## LincTex

lazydaisy67 said:


> Not to be too macabre, but dying from freezing to death would be preferable to cooking to death as far as I'm concerned.


I have never felt near death when very cold... but I have been very close to severe heat stroke. It is a lot easier to get "warmed up" than to "cool down" from a heat stroke.


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## hiwall

LincTex said:


> I have never felt near death when very cold... but I have been very close to severe heat stroke. It is a lot easier to get "warmed up" than to "cool down" from a heat stroke.


I wish you would have been with when I fell thru the ice in MN.


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## LincTex

hiwall said:


> I wish you would have been with when I fell thru the ice in MN.


 I tipped a canoe and fell through 1/4-3/8 inch thick ice when 16 years old. I was quite a ways from home. You are right, that feeling is a feeling of VERY cold!!!!


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## rjdpj

Well i live in north georgia and our power was out since Friday , we all just sat in the living room got every blanket we had and all the jackets , it actually got hot lol ! But it was nice having family time , for food we just went out to eat lol


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## cowboyhermit

rjdpj, nice, forced family time in confined spaces is good for all of us
Would have been even better if someone made a big pot of something like Chicken soup, chili, or stew, those are my best memories.


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## BillS

We've been using our kerosene heaters lately. Not only does it warm the living room but it also warms the upstairs hallway and even the bedrooms are warmer. Fuel consumption varies. On a day when it's 0 and windy we'd have to run it half the time. Yesterday when it was 40 and no wind we ran it for an hour and that was it for 24 hours. We got it up to 72 and by bed time it was still 68.

I like the fact that the fuel is compact compared to fire wood. And I like the fact that your house isn't giving off smoke that can be seen for miles.


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## Padre

dixiemama said:


> I know there is on on heat, but what about cold? You can layer clothes, huddle in small group or build a fire. Frostbite is just as dangerous as heat stroke. People who live above the Mason Dixon line get some pretty cold winters. Anyone stocking extra clothes in a few sizes and blankets?


Up here, well north of the Mason Dixon, cold weather gear is as common as underwear. And folks by and large are used to the cold, and being without power occasionally, and therefore self-sufficient for heating fuel thanks to trees.

I have three seasons of wood stacked on my property and a tank of propane for cooking, water heating, and heating the house if needed.

I have, however, always been interested in ways of super insulating a house. I understand that 5 feet of dirt will keep a house at a constant temp of about 60. Maybe that's a possibility for a safe house in the future, but for now I have thermal shades but would love to hear about other approaches to reducing heat loss.


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## cowboyhermit

"Green/alternative" building techniques, despite what many think of them can really reduce or eliminate energy requirements.
In a moderate climate thermal mass, like mentioned can be enough to make it livable, though 60 is pretty cool and if you try to warm it up that dirt acts like a sponge for heat unless you insulate well against it.
Up here it was -43 with windchill this morning so you want some serious insulation unless you were down 8 feet 
Old fashioned log cabins (with chinking) are amazing combinations of thermal mass and insulation and have proven effective for millenia in cold places like Scandinavia for instance.
Straw is a great insulator, cheap and very fire resistant when used properly. If you build straw bale walls they are considered "super insulated", you can then add mass (inches of plaster,cob,brick,cement) on the inside and possibly outside as well. This gives you thermal mass inside, and bullet resistance


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## Erick3758

I've noticed my basement stays 55-60.its 8 foot below ground.does not matter if its -20 out.part of it is insulated.very easy to heat.


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> Old fashioned log cabins (with chinking) are amazing combinations of thermal mass and insulation and have proven effective for millennium in cold places like Scandinavia for instance.


I dunno.... a few years back some friends of mine in Baudette, MN (right next to Canada) were getting into log home sales, and lived in the demonstrator. It was the hardest house EVER to heat ($$$$$$).

They hated that house, and moved after one winter.



cowboyhermit said:


> Straw bale walls are considered "super insulated",


Even when using bales around the perimeter of a conventional framed home, a tremendous energy savings can be realized. We "ringed" our old farm home up to the window sills every fall. You have to do SOMETHING to help out when it's -40*F!!!


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## Gravlore

Put some rocks in a steel bucket and let them heat over a fire, then put them into an old sleeping bag and hold the bag next to your body to keep warm. We Put rocks near a fire camping and then once hot we put the rocks into a double sock and put near our feet (lasts about 4 hours). Camping when its -10c is easily doable doing this and I would do the same in our home if need be. Hot rocks in a few steel buckets can be put into a small room as well to take the edge off (use a steel stand) , without starting a fire in the home. Black sheets over the south facing windows work well during the day.


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## cowboyhermit

LincTex, you are right, that is why I specified "old fashioned, with chinking".
I am sure there are people making modern log cabins that make sense but I have yet to see one, they are just built to achieve a certain appearance. Almost all I have been in that are build in the last 50 years are terrible, if beautiful. 
For true cold weather performance, like -40 daily and a little wood stove, you need to seriously ***** any and all cracks with daub or some form of insulation, then ideally you make the walls virtually or completely flat with earthen plaster or whatever, just the tips of the logs showing is good. So basically you have a foot thick wall and a tremendous amount of thermal mass. 
When you go to a good cabin that has been empty for awhile it will take days to get it all warm (tons of mass to heat up) but after that it is amazing then even if the fire goes out at night it will not be cold in the morning. 
For example we have a 100 year old cabin on our property, they just used small poplar logs so walls were less than a foot but inside was thick plastered wall, all wood buried under a couple inches. It was only 24x24 but the little apartment style natural gas oven (cooking) was enough to keep it livable in -40. 
Later on we found out there was *no insulation in the cieling*  they put boards on the ceiling and boards on the top, nothing in between, not even tar paper. If someone had told me that I would have said it would be impossible to keep warm and I did a lot of searching for some kind of insulation but it wasn't there :dunno:


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## cnsper

> I dunno.... a few years back some friends of mine in Baudette, MN (right next to Canada) were getting into log home sales, and lived in the demonstrator. It was the hardest house EVER to heat ($$$$$$).
> 
> They hated that house, and moved after one winter.


I would assume that the cabin had a loft or high ceilings to make it look pretty. If you look at all the old cabins in colder climates, they ALL had low ceilings and a small footprint. There were cabins where you had less than 100 square feet per person. Why? Because you went outside.


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## cowboyhermit

True, the standard here 100 years ago was around 24'x24', anything else was typically built in additional units. That is only 575 square feet, probably considered a "tiny" home and they had big families. They often had a loft, used for sleeping and it was the warmest part of the house.


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## dixiemama

Our home is 40x20 and even when we were building it, it stayed very comfortable due to many windows facing the sun. We get the sun first thing in the morning and it lasts a long time. Hardly have to have heat on


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## cowboyhermit

Glass can be great for passive solar gain but if not designed correctly can make for heat issues in the summer, we get very cold winters and then a lot of sun in the summer. Also there are the obvious security and weather concerns, shutters can be helpful for all these reasons but really big windows are difficult.


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## dixiemama

Not really big windows, just standard size, but we have 4 facing the rising sun. What's good about these, they are energy efficient and look to have a tint on them. I'm not sure what it is about them but they have helped our utility bills


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## cowboyhermit

They have tried a lot of coatings and gases to try to reduce heating in the summer but still allow good solar gain in the winter, so far there is no free lunch and they usually choose to diminish the solar gain and focus on r-value. Various types of overhangs make it possible to accomplish this in non-tropical zones because the sun is so low in the winter.


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## KPGunn

This is a minor solution to the whole house ideas being thrown around but here goes. You need a hard water bottle, fire source, container to boil water and a sleeping bag. Boil water and fill the bottle with it. Wrap a sock or two around the bottle and throw it to the bottom of the bag you're laying in. It will heat the bag all night. In the morning you'll have clean water and warm socks.


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