# Need advice on tankless electric water heater



## JustPassinThru (Nov 10, 2008)

So, we’ve just bought a small place in the Appalachians, but it needs some major renovations. It currently has the usual 60-gallon electric water heater, which we’d like to replace with tankless electric ones. We’ve had some experience with propane and don’t like the way they operate in low-flow situations. I’ve dabbled in some minor projects, but I’m neither a plumber nor an electrician. I figure we’d need one in the kitchen and one in each bathroom. I would appreciate recommendations as to which water heater would best serve an older couple that would occasionally have a grandchild staying with them.


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

If you want the water heaters installed at the faucets you've described, they are considered point of use water heaters. They may work fine for washing hands, but forget using it for showering purposes. If you want to replace the "tanked" water heater with a centralized tankless water heater, I would highly recommend a 240V system. If you really wanted to save money, I'd recommend installing a propane tankless, since this would be alot cheaper to operate.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

havasu said:


> If you want the water heaters installed at the faucets you've described, they are considered point of use water heaters. They may work fine for washing hands, but forget using it for showering purposes. If you want to replace the "tanked" water heater with a centralized tankless water heater, I would highly recommend a 240V system. If you really wanted to save money, I'd recommend installing a propane tankless, since this would be alot cheaper to operate.


We have a point of use water heater at work that has no problems with showers and will burn your hands if you just use hot water to wash them with.


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## JustPassinThru (Nov 10, 2008)

terri9630 said:


> We have a point of use water heater at work that has no problems with showers and will burn your hands if you just use hot water to wash them with.


Do you by chance know the make/model, and is it 110 or 220?
Does it maintain a constant temp when used for the shower?


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

JustPassinThru said:


> Do you by chance know the make/model, and is it 110 or 220?
> Does it maintain a constant temp when used for the shower?


The temps are fine but I've never used it for anything but a short shower. I'll try to get a picture of it for you when I go into work later and see what the set up is.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

We are a couple days short of a year in our new home and an on demand gas water heater is on the short list for us. I've heard of the low flow problem but my guess is that this is less of a problem with certain units. If you don't mind my piggybacking on your thread I'd appreciate brand recommendations for tankless gas heaters.

In any case one thing I strongly recommend are thermostatically controlled faucets at each sink and shower. The two groups that are at highest risk for scalding are the young and the elderly. You described a system to be used by both groups. Scalds can be serious and even deadly in extreme situations.


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## azrancher (Jan 30, 2014)

I've heard... and I don't/won't own one, that a tankless water heater, no matter if it's gas or electric, needs to be cleaned twice a year to de-calcium the units, and that should be done by a plumber....

I have a hot water re-circ on my hot water heater, so a flip of a switch and 30 seconds later I have hot water at every spigot in my house.

*Rancher*


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

Although I loved the energy efficiency of my tankless gas water heater (Navien brand #NPE 240a), I changed back to a typical 50 gallon gas water heater. Now I have 50 gallons of potable water in the event of a disaster, and I also installed a Grundfos pump with a timer, so I also have instant hot water during the times of the day that hot water is necessary.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

*12yr old Bosch just replaced with Rinnai*

We are off the grid, well water and propane. We have had the propane Bosch for 12 years, just had an non-repairable issue and replaced it with a propane Rinnai unit. We had no issues up until now, no service or cleaning what-so-ever, not a hiccup.
Here in So.Cal the water is hard, we only have a yarn filter for sediment and a 24vdc Flowlight booster slowpump for pressure, about 50-60lbs pressure.
I would highly recommend a tankless unit over a energy gobbling tank type.

BB


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

....until the power goes out. Then you'll be lighting a fire in the backyard and sitting in a big ol' pot trying to get clean.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

havasu said:


> ....until the power goes out. Then you'll be lighting a fire in the backyard and sitting in a big ol' pot trying to get clean.


With well water & Propane????
As a child we heated with wood & cooked on Propane & always had hot water.
From the gas stove.


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

A tankless W/H needs power to operate. Without it, it no workie. Unlike a tank W/H which does not need power to operate.

If you need more information, please visit us at:

www.plumbingforums.com

www.houserepairtalk.com


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

havasu said:


> A tankless W/H needs power to operate. Without it, it no workie. Unlike a tank W/H which does not need power to operate.
> 
> If you need more information, please visit us at:
> 
> ...


OK, first,can't you try and give advice and not be so degrading. 
Second, you are wrong about tankless waterheaters, there are some that do not need power... http://www.rural-energy.net/catalog/products/?subcat_id=19 
This unit from Bosch 520HN _*"uses the energy from the flowing water to ignite the burner"*_
I am off-grid, not to worried about losing power to my tankless waterheater anyway. I do however have a 30gal electric waterheater that pre-heats the water before going into the tankless. This is accomplished by my solar/wind system control panel as a dumpload after my system is fully charged.
Third, where are you going to get pressurized water to fill your tank type waterheater. Needs power somewhere for the water to "workie"
Not to sure about your advice, please again check your facts first.
*Facta Non Verba*​
BB


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

havasu said:


> ....until the power goes out. Then you'll be lighting a fire in the backyard and sitting in a big ol' pot trying to get clean.


I have a small ecotemp unit that cost me about $100.00 that I use in an off grid location. It sparks the propane from 2 c size batteries. It uses no other electricity other than a 12 volt sureflo water pump that runs off of 12 volt batteries. I love this shower unit. I have hotter water and more pressure than I do in my home.

Here is the whole rig for $169.00 and includes a strainer.
https://www.eccotemp.com/eccotemp-l5-tankless-water-heater-w-flojet-pump-strainer/


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## havasu (Sep 4, 2011)

Wow Bunkerbob, who peed in your Cheerios this morning? First off, for the last 40 years, I have picked up the slang, "no power - no workie". I do not consider this degrading but if you do, then I apologize for my error.

When I replied, I was referring to the general masses, not the complete off the grid expert as you. If you check out Navien, Rinnai, Rheem, Noritz or any of the other leading tankless water heaters, you will need to have a complete 120v system to make the water get hot.

I've seen many people who have been considering upgrading to a tankless water heater only to be disappointed when they find out most will need to hire an electrician and install a 120v plug to make the tankless water heater operate. Sure, there are 12v pumps available, but look at the gallons per minute output. They are severely reduced from what is available when plugged in and when the power goes out temporarily, they do not work. Period.

Regarding incoming water, again, I was referring to the masses, not the expert such as you. Most city dwellers and businesses in my area use gravity fed water systems. Sure, at one point in its life, it would have to be pumped from underground, but someone like myself, who is on municipal water, have 500,000 gallon storage tanks so sporadic power outages would not jeopardize us being stopped from taking a shower.

Again, I apologize for any confusion regarding on grid and off grid living in regards to tankless water heaters.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

with the new regulations regular gas water heaters now require electric to operate.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

An electric tank less water heater in every shower (point of use) is a good idea keeping in mind the necessary power connection; 220 volts is more economical and if you`re like me ,near cold showers even better; whole house tank less water heater is easier to install, just replace the old one with the new one. Electric you may need to upend the amperage and wire size for the new unit, but maybe not. If you have Propane is easy or you may need the new connection, but is not complicated at all. But the hotter the water the more energy you will used and if you used hot water for everything in your house you will burn lots of power, I only used warm water in the bathrooms from a propane 40 gallon heater set on vacation, this new units work by using plenty of power to heat the water, the higher the setting the more power you will used so keep that in mind. A good tank water heater will last you a good 20 years or more, mine is that old and I just replace the burner for $140.00 from on Amazon also keep in mind that with propane as long as you have it you will have hot water, for off the grid they sale a portable propane type water heater. Keep in mind that these units are not cheap and also need a qualified technician to repair, in my area I can get two 40 gallon water heaters for the prize of a tank less one; I have spend some time doing a little research on this units so good luck.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

havasu said:


> Wow Bunkerbob, who peed in your Cheerios this morning? First off, for the last 40 years, I have picked up the slang, "no power - no workie". I do not consider this degrading but if you do, then I apologize for my error.
> 
> When I replied, I was referring to the general masses, not the complete off the grid expert as you. If you check out Navien, Rinnai, Rheem, Noritz or any of the other leading tankless water heaters, you will need to have a complete 120v system to make the water get hot.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clarification, too many "experts" give advice to the members here without the real life experiences to back it up, thus the term "*Facta Non Verba*", _facts not just words_.
I have been there many times and felt the misery of failure only to try again until a system works. Unfortunately that method costs time and money, which nowadays are sometimes hard to come by.
I have been here so long that I feel like its my place to not only help the members here, but guard against wrong information being given in error.
Hopefully my 40 years of prepping experience will help educate the inexperienced here.

BB


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## rhrobert (Apr 27, 2009)

havasu said:


> A tankless W/H needs power to operate. Without it, it no workie. Unlike a tank W/H which does not need power to operate.
> 
> If you need more information, please visit us at:
> 
> ...


Let the power go out. My tankless propane 18L system will be working just fine. 2 rechargable D cells. I also have a spare that the ignition works on friction. I am offgrid, I don't need no stinking electric company.


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