# Handcuffs



## tyler_kd0bsa (Nov 4, 2009)

Would you carry handcuffs if you could and what are your thoughts on the idea of carrying them.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

Detaining, holding or "rehabilitating" people is illegal in normal times, the job of an organized police force and not the task of a prepper in SHTF. For liability sake, there just isn't any way I would cuff someone waiting for the police to arrive. Pure lawsuit coming. 

When you detain someone, someone has to babysit them. That just cuts your available manpower down. Plus you have to feed them.

Plus at some time when you release them, they'll be mad as a hornet and you are back to square one. 

I hope to just avoid those situations. 

I do however carry pepper spray and bear spray in my rig for non-lethal situations, dogs, etc.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

tyler_kd0bsa said:


> Would you carry handcuffs if you could and what are your thoughts on the idea of carrying them.


You can but they serve no purpose for non law enforcement outside of the bed room... Big Grin.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

I can think of no reason to cuff someone.
I want as much distance between a bad guy and me as possible.
What would you do with them after they are cuffed?
In a SHTF situation a cuffed person would be a huge problem.
They really aren't that much fun in the bedroom either.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Cops sometimes carry big zip ties in their gear for when they run out of cuffs(maybe the are preppers too ):sssh:


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## tyler_kd0bsa (Nov 4, 2009)

My thought on this and it depends on state laws but a person if committing a felony crime can be restrained until turned over to proper authorities. So if you're in a situation to make a citizens arrest for a felony crime they could be useful to carry to restrain until authorities arrive.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Shoot, I'd just as soon find a good, stout piece of rope and hog-tie them! Then you have their feet restrained too.


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## Sourdough (May 22, 2010)

Good shot placement negates the need for handcuffs.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

As an ex-law enforcement officer, carrying handcuffs is only going to draw attention to yourself, whereas the large zip ties would not be as obvious. We carried both, when we used up the available cuffs we started using the ties.
You need to be very careful legally when using them, you can open yourself up a can of worms with unlawful detention or even at the extreme, kidnapping


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

bunkerbob said:


> You need to be very careful legally when using them, you can open yourself up a can of worms with unlawful detention or even at the extreme, kidnapping


Would it be considered kidnapping or unlawful-detention if the person being detained was trespassing on property or found inside an out-building (shed, garage, barn, etc) without permission from the owners?

I would rather tie someone up till proper authorities would be able to show up than to turn them into something that looks similar to swiss cheese ...


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

There are other uses for handcuffs for post SHTF.

Especially with light ASP cuffs, you can carry them with out much weight. You can secure a chainlink fence gate and many other things with cuffs and that barrier will still allow the passage by LEO's and most EMS. (Some criminals carry handcuff keys, but most don't.) You can restrain a person during a scrap in the heat of the moment and buy some time to determine what you want to do with them, rather than deciding right then while still struggling. You can secure a weapon or other object to a location with handcuffs easily.

They're just another potential tool.


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## tyler_kd0bsa (Nov 4, 2009)

SurviveNthrive said:


> There are other uses for handcuffs for post SHTF.
> 
> Especially with light ASP cuffs, you can carry them with out much weight. You can secure a chainlink fence gate and many other things with cuffs and that barrier will still allow the passage by LEO's and most EMS. (Some criminals carry handcuff keys, but most don't.) You can restrain a person during a scrap in the heat of the moment and buy some time to determine what you want to do with them, rather than deciding right then while still struggling. You can secure a weapon or other object to a location with handcuffs easily.
> 
> They're just another potential tool.


You bring up a good point on using them for locking things up but yet allowing the LEO's access or for general quick lock up of something. And I do believe it would be much easier to carry them instead of a padlock and a chain around.


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## PS360 (Sep 10, 2010)

Sourdough said:


> Good shot placement negates the need for handcuffs.


What he said.


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## thunderdan19 (Oct 12, 2010)

I've considered the zip tie (flex cuff) option (for use only after TEOTWAWKI). I would use them to confine trespassers that aren't immediate threats, but that might become one or try to steal necessary stores.

In a SHTF scenario, lots of people will be wandering about looking for food and shelter. Those that are not an obvious threat don't deserve summary execution just for wandering onto your property. However, it might be prudent to confine them temporarily in case they are scouting for a larger, more dangerous group. If they turn out to be, it's one less imminent threat, and you can interrogate him/her before/during/after an incursion.

Flex cuffs are nearly impossible to break free from, unlike ropes/wires that can wiggle loose.


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## carlnet (Jul 29, 2010)

thunderdan19 said:


> Flex cuffs are nearly impossible to break free from, unlike ropes/wires that can wiggle loose.


Hate to burst your bubble but flex cuffs are very easy to get out of and the tool required to do it is nearly undetectable when woven into clothing. Unless you are going to strip naked your capturees you may want to reconsider using flex cuffs and not closely watching your prisoners.



> I've considered the zip tie (flex cuff) option (for use only after TEOTWAWKI). I would use them to confine trespassers that aren't immediate threats, but that might become one or try to steal necessary stores.
> 
> In a SHTF scenario, lots of people will be wandering about looking for food and shelter. Those that are not an obvious threat don't deserve summary execution just for wandering onto your property. However, it might be prudent to confine them temporarily in case they are scouting for a larger, more dangerous group. If they turn out to be, it's one less imminent threat, and you can interrogate him/her before/during/after an incursion.


While we are speaking hypothetically about detaining people consider this. Many people who you detained would consider your detainment to be an attack against their person and freedom and would stop at nothing to kill you and your team just for the detainment. You would do much better just showing them the area is spoken for and making sure they move on. Not to mention the fact that traders would become a regular and welcome part of life after the world went to you know what. And your visits from the honest ones would dry up very quickly if you treated them as poorly as you are describing...


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## thunderdan19 (Oct 12, 2010)

carlnet said:


> Hate to burst your bubble but flex cuffs are very easy to get out of and the tool required to do it is nearly undetectable when woven into clothing. Unless you are going to strip naked your capturees you may want to reconsider using flex cuffs and not closely watching your prisoners.


I'll have to make sure to get a hold of one of those nearly undetectable flex cuff cutters for TEOTWAWKI. Not sure what your point is. Mine was I'd rather detain an intruder than put a bullet in him/her outright.



carlnet said:


> While we are speaking hypothetically about detaining people consider this. Many people who you detained would consider your detainment to be an attack against their person and freedom and would stop at nothing to kill you and your team just for the detainment. You would do much better just showing them the area is spoken for and making sure they move on. Not to mention the fact that traders would become a regular and welcome part of life after the world went to you know what. And your visits from the honest ones would dry up very quickly if you treated them as poorly as you are describing...


The cuffs would be for people who insisted they needed to come onto the property (perhaps with a story that they are being pursued or desperately needed something), not for passers by offering goods for trade. And I wouldn't mistreat them, just render them harmless until I figure out what their true intentions are. I should hope they would actually appreciate the fact that I would not have to keep an unsafetied firearm pointed at them while I questioned them. I would not be using them any more often than I had to since they would need to be rendered useless to be removed.


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## twiggie (Jan 3, 2009)

You don't have to cut zip ties to remove them. you can insert a thin narrow strip of some hard flexible material (plastic, metal, etc), to insert in the slot to disengage the teeth or something to pry the clip up to disengage it and it can be slipped off. 
I'm on the fence about carrying cuffs, I like the idea of escorting questionable pests for whatever reason and there's plenty of other possible uses but there are plenty of downsides to using them also, if the person decides to hold a grudge for being detained what happens then? I might keep some on hand just in case but I'm not sure when I'd find it appropriate to use them.


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## thunderdan19 (Oct 12, 2010)

I guess I'm used to seeing the large once and done zip ties. Thankfully, I have no personal experience with real flex cuffs. It'd be near the bottom of my Home Depot shopping list for TSHTF anyway.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I've two different sorts of flex cuffs we use. They both have a tiny inner piece of metal that prevents any slipping and they're definitely one use as flex cuffs. I'd carry them as well. There's uses for them as there are with cable ties.

With cable ties you can replace ALICE clips as we did as they're lighter, don't come open unlike ALICE clips and they don't corrode. They're also cheaper than replacement ALICE clips and you can carry a lot fo spares. Quieter, I don't know, as ALICE clips don't make any noise, but they can cinch down gear better.

You can also use them on MOLLE gear as well.

Flex Cuffs are basically better made and generally more expensive cable ties.


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## Tex (Oct 31, 2008)

I can't imagine carrying handcuffs. People will think that you are looking for trouble. (mall ninja) Texas law allows you to shoot anybody that invades your home or your car. Texas law also prohibits civil suits if the shooting was criminally justified.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

Tex said:


> I can't imagine carrying handcuffs. People will think that you are looking for trouble. (mall ninja) Texas law allows you to shoot anybody that invades your home or your car. Texas law also prohibits civil suits if the shooting was criminally justified.


Couldn't imagine carry cuffs either, until reading some of the posts in the thread. There appear to be a lot of "alternative" uses for the cuffs in securing things rather than just people. 
_Surviveandthrive _made some very good arguments for having some around.

may have to reconsider. :scratch


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

I think the military and cops if around would brand you a robber or looter and shoot ya, just my opine. :dunno: But zip ties have many uses beside cuffing.


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## vn6869 (May 5, 2010)

kyfarmer said:


> I think the military and cops if around would brand you a robber or looter and shoot ya, just my opine. :dunno: But zip ties have many uses beside cuffing.


Not sure about them shooting you, but zip ties were my first choice, but the handcuffs can be undone, whereas the zip ties are one-time use. JMHO


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

It will be legal for myself to carry cuffs on a regular basis considering I am in the process of becoming a police officer so I say yes to that. I don't know the legality of your average citizen carrying cuffs in Pennsylvania. I'll have to ask my academy teachers about that.

If the shtf, it would be every man for himself so I wouldn't have a problem with a good citizen protecting themselves by detaining another person until they know that person is worth trusting. But it would irritate me though if someone did try to detain me... I'd understand but I would still be annoyed. Lol. Such a contradiction!


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## NavyKen (Feb 14, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> Would it be considered kidnapping or unlawful-detention if the person being detained was trespassing on property or found inside an out-building (shed, garage, barn, etc) without permission from the owners?


Depends on how good the perps attorney happens to be. Get the wrong lawyer, wrong judge, or wrong jury and you cold be looking at 10 to 20 for kidnapping rather then appearing to be the victim of a B&E.


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## FreeNihilist (Jan 28, 2011)

U.S. Law

Each state, with the exception of North Carolina, permits citizen arrests if the commission of a felony is witnessed by the arresting citizen, or when a citizen is asked to assist in the apprehension of a suspect by police.

The application of state laws varies widely with respect to misdemeanors, breaches of the peace, and felonies not witnessed by the arresting party. *American citizens do not carry the authority or enjoy the legal protections held by police officers, and are held to the principle of strict liability before the courts of civil- and criminal law including, but not limited to, any infringement of another's rights.* Nonetheless many citizens' arrests are popular news stories and criminal prosecutions in clearly justifiable cases are rare.

Canadian Law

Section 494. (Criminal Code)[8]

(1) ARREST WITHOUT WARRANT BY ANY PERSON

Any one may arrest without warrant(s)

(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or

(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes

* (i) has committed a criminal offence, and
* (ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person

(2) ARREST BY OWNER, ETC., OF PROPERTY

Any one who is

(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or

(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property

may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property.

(3) DELIVERY TO PEACE OFFICER

Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer.
This section may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards. Please improve this section if you can. The talk page may contain suggestions. (July 2009)

-Section 494, sub. 1, (a) is the "General Power of Arrest" for non-peace officers.

- Section 494, sub. 1, (b) is known as the "Assist Power of Arrest" and includes assisting another citizen who witnessed a "Criminal Offence" and, therefore, "... is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person ...". This section of the Criminal Code of Canada IS that authorization.

- Section 494, sub. 2, is the "Owner/Agent" power of arrest. It applies to both security and all other staff (or friends/neighbours if it is a dwelling) of any given property (The reason companies tell their staff they can't make such an arrest is because if the person making the arrest is hurt/killed by the criminal, the company becomes liable for the injury or death. Further, most people are neither equipped or trained to make proper arrests, which greatly increases the likelihood of injury or death to the citizen).

- in Section 494, sub. 2, (b) "...a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property." includes criminal offences that are not on that property at all. If someone steals from a store, the security personnel who pursue the thief can (but rarely ever do) leave the property to continue the pursuit. When the pursuit is broken off the thief is no longer considered to be "freshly pursued" and therefore others are no longer permitted to assist in the apprehension of the criminal (it, then, becomes a matter for the Police to handle). Note that 494(1)(a) allows for arrest related only to indictable offences, while 494(2) allows for arrest for any offence against the laws of Canada,[9] most notably small value theft.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

What ju mean if I could??

Ju mean I can't??:ignore:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I still have*

I still have a couple of pair of handcuffs .

If I can find the key , I can get them off the bedpost.

:kiss:


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Notice the last two posts..never say Kentucky doesn't have a sense of humor!!:2thumb:


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## Jason (Jul 25, 2009)

I see no use for cuffs. If I saw someone like me carrying cuffs for no apparent reason, I'd think tacti-cool mall ninja as well. Post SHTF, who knows. But for now-no cuffs.


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## Talonis (Mar 10, 2011)

I sure would, not only could you detain someone of ill repute, but you also give one of your own a "time out" if so needed. Plus you can use them as makeshift tie-downs.


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## TrackerRat (Mar 24, 2011)

Not sure if it was mentioned but carrying a cuff key may be smart. If you are arrested though I would tell the officer immediately that you have it so that you dont face some sort of resisting arrest charge.


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## Wyheard (Apr 5, 2011)

backlash said:


> I can think of no reason to cuff someone.
> I want as much distance between a bad guy and me as possible.
> What would you do with them after they are cuffed?
> In a SHTF situation a cuffed person would be a huge problem.
> They really aren't that much fun in the bedroom either.


I totally agree with that. Unless you team can outnumber the bad guy.


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## Nexquietus (Jun 29, 2011)

For me, detaining someone that is doing something they shouldn't is not my job. Granted, in "Normal times" I imagine there would be the time that I hold someone at gun point if need be (active shooter, burglar, etc) but that's IF the cops were available. I have not give much thought to what I would do if things were wild west style... But putting hands on so I can cuff a perp, that's a level of risk I am unwilling to assume.

jim


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

One thing to keep in mind:

I recently heard another officer say that he had been a witness at the hearing of another officer's (justified) off-duty shooting case, and the attorney asked the officer if he had been carrying cuffs as well as his weapon while off-duty. When the officer replied that he had not, the attorney's response was, "Oh, so you never intended to detain anyone you may have chosen to exercise you peace officer powers upon, just to shoot them?"

Typical lawyer-ish response, but I does make for a good point. LEOs should carry cuffs if we are going to carry a weapon.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Tex said:


> I can't imagine carrying handcuffs. People will think that you are looking for trouble. (mall ninja) Texas law allows you to shoot anybody that invades your home or your car. Texas law also prohibits civil suits if the shooting was criminally justified.


God bless Texas! :congrat:


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