# Ammo Tampering?



## Doomskull (Mar 25, 2011)

I just heard that manufacturers of ammunition are putting and agent in their powder that renders the round inert after a certain period of time. Can anyone verify this and are they doing it to regular reloading powder also? If this is true then it's an in your face, proof-positive sign that "they" are seriously moving against honest citizens. To me anyhow.


Found something along the same lines...

Limited-life cartridge primers- Patent 6881284 Issued on April 19, 2005. Estimated Expiration Date: Icon_subject October 19, 2021.

A cartridge primer which utilizes an explosive that can be designed to become inactive in a predetermined period of time: a limited-life primer. The explosive or combustible material of the primer is an inorganic reactive multilayer (RML). The reaction products of the RML are sub-micron grains of non-corrosive inorganic compounds that would have no harmful effects on firearms or cartridge cases. Unlike use of primers containing lead components, primers utilizing RML's would not present a hazard to the environment. The sensitivity of an RML is determined by the physical structure and the stored interfacial energy. The sensitivity lowers with time due to a decrease in interfacial energy resulting from interdiffusion of the elemental layers. Time-dependent interdiffusion is predictable, thereby enabling the functional lifetime of an RML primer to be predetermined by the initial thickness and materials selection of the reacting layers.


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

Simple answer: Get you curio and relics license. Buy milsurp rifles and ammo of previous manufacture. I routinely shoot 8mm ammo from the 1950s.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

hubby has been saying that for 3-4 years. but no proof yet. he heard it was to keep people from stock piling it.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

gun control is a distraction...

... TPTB have determined *ammo* control is more effective


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

@ Blob,

It is and I control plenty.


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

Also having 9mm, .223 and 308 weapons are useful as you'll be able to forage for ammo if tshtf.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

SnakeDoc said:


> Also having 9mm, .223 and 308 weapons are useful as you'll be able to forage for ammo if tshtf.


"Forage"? I call it stripping dead zombies of their gear.


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## lexsurivor (Jul 5, 2010)

If this is the case I would get a muzzle loading rifle and saltpeter and flower of sulfer.


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

lexsurivor said:


> If this is the case I would get a muzzle loading rifle and saltpeter and flower of sulfer.


Making functioning black powder is an art. Learn up on it now. I would also recommend archery equipment.


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Just in case........use the new ammo for pleasure and the old one for business, some of my ammo are from WWII and they work just fine (for the M-1 carabine and 30-06)


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

Ponce said:


> Just in case........use the new ammo for pleasure and the old one for business, some of my ammo are from WWII and they work just fine (for the M-1 carabine and 30-06)


I have a fine collection of old Mauser rifles. I routinely shoot ammo headstamped from the 1930s. Odd to think that ammo from some of those lots was probably fired at my dad and uncles!


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Product liability*

Since there is no current law requiring ammo that becomes defective after any period of time, it would be financial sucicide for any manufacturer to produce this much less likely that they would do this on the down low.

A product liability law suit would break them. Let's say a shopkeeper is killed by an armed robber and he dies with his revolver in his hand with five defective rounds , each having a imprint left by the fireing pin on the cap.

Do you think his widow would have a law suit against the ammo manufacture?

They are not only not going to do this , my guess is they would close the doors before they complied with such a law.

What if it was required by law and the ammo malfunctioned before the "use by this date" expired?


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

BillM said:


> Since there is no current law requiring ammo that becomes defective after any period of time, it would be financial sucicide for any manufacturer to produce this much less likely that they would do this on the down low.
> 
> A product liability law suit would break them. Let's say a shopkeeper is killed by an armed robber and he dies with his revolver in his hand with five defective rounds , each having a imprint left by the fireing pin on the cap.
> 
> ...


I had a chemist tell me a few years ago when this very thing came up that it is not possible to put some type of degrading solution, device, chemical or whatever in a primer or powder to make it inert after a certain length of time. True or not, I don't know but it sure sounds reasonable to me that it can't be done.

oldvet


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

If any one is really worried about the primer/powder thing happening, then all I can say is stock up now.

Personally that subject is the least of my concerns in prepping to try and ride out whatever may come our way.

Believe only what can be proven without a doubt and don't rely on rumor mills for your intel. The last thing that any of us needs to do is run around crying "the sky is falling". Those of us that think we know what is comming ( and are hoping and praying that it dosen't) have enough on our plates without borrowing more worries.:gaah: 

I did not post this to argue with anyone or to insult anyone in any way, I am just stating how I feel.

oldvet


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

Currently the "expiring" ammo is rumor. I talked to a friend who worked for winchester for 35 years before retiring last year, He said they had a rumor floating around for a couple of years that the "goobermint" was looking into a way to control the amount of ammo a person had, along with ammo registration where you had to sign a book when you purchased ammo. The reasoning behind it supposidly (sp?) Is to get around the constitution. As it guarentees the right to keep and bear arms, however it DOES NOT cover any right to have the ammo for the weapons.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

oldsoldier said:


> Currently the "expiring" ammo is rumor. I talked to a friend who worked for winchester for 35 years before retiring last year, He said they had a rumor floating around for a couple of years that the "goobermint" was looking into a way to control the amount of ammo a person had, along with ammo registration where you had to sign a book when you purchased ammo. The reasoning behind it supposidly (sp?) Is to get around the constitution. As it guarentees the right to keep and bear arms, however it DOES NOT cover any right to have the ammo for the weapons.


I hope there is no tampering with my ammo -- thems fightin' words!

I would also like to point out that the constitution does in fact guarantee our right to both keep and bear arms -- it would do us no good to bear them if they werent loaded and shootable so I would say that the constitution does actually cover the right to have ammo for our weapons. Its just common sense -- the founding fathers didnt put in the second ammendment so we could collect firearms or walk around with them for show. :soapbox2:


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> -- it would do us no good to bear them if they werent loaded and shootable so I would say that the constitution does actually cover the right to have ammo for our weapons. Its just common sense -- the founding fathers didnt put in the second ammendment so we could collect firearms or walk around with them for show. :soapbox2:


Ant I agree with you HOWEVER since when have the politicos been accused or credited with using common sense?:scratch However that is one of the current administrations ideas to circumvent the constitution. As the constitution says " the right to KEEP and BEAR ARMS" reading and re-reading it several times I could not find any reference tahtsays ammo as well is protected. However when the constitution was written there was no "ammo" just about everyone knew how to mine their own lead, cast their own bullets and quite a few could make their own powder.

Now before I start an arguement, I believe we have a right to own and store whatever we want to. But again I am not a liberal politican either.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

oldsoldier said:


> Ant I agree with you HOWEVER since when have the politicos been accused or credited with using common sense?:scratch However that is one of the current administrations ideas to circumvent the constitution. As the constitution says " the right to KEEP and BEAR ARMS" reading and re-reading it several times I could not find any reference tahtsays ammo as well is protected. However when the constitution was written there was no "ammo" just about everyone knew how to mine their own lead, cast their own bullets and quite a few could make their own powder.
> 
> Now before I start an arguement, I believe we have a right to own and store whatever we want to. But again I am not a liberal politican either.


Hehe, I hear ya. I dont mean to argue I am just defending the intent of the ammendment and suggesting that we all should defend it and not play the game that liberal politicians like to play (ie. "well err umm... there werent bazookas back then so... errr.. umm... the ammendment cant apply to those... err ... umm... of course not! .... ... .can it?").

Whenever interpreting the constitution remember that it was written to give limited powers to the federal government, not to spell out the rights of citizens. The Bill of Rights (the first 10 ammendments) were added because some states wanted to put some especially important rights of the individual down on paper because they feared a federal government that would say "well... err.. ummm... theres no law that says you can have a weapon or use it (bear it)... soo... err... umm... off to the gulag with you". All rights not specifically given to the federal government belong in the hands of the states and/or citizen.

The fact is we should all be argueing that the constitution does not give the gov't the right to modify our ammo in any way... much less our arms as those are specifically excluded by the constitution.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Wasn't the 'operative' word ...stockpiling??

As in getting old??

If the crap continues to hit the fan, we may not have to worry about 'old' ammo.:gaah:


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## SnakeDoc (Nov 10, 2009)

Today I picked up a used Remington 700 in 7mm-08 with scope and 5 boxes of ammo for 250 bucks. I offered the man more as I knew it was to feed his family. The rifle had about 10 rounds fired through it. 

I write this not to brag but to point out that bargains are available. Get them and sufficient ammo for your needs. Give the notion of how much you'll need some thought. For instance with the lot I just purchased, I bet I could handle elk, deer and black bear season for the next ten years easily.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> Hehe, I hear ya. I dont mean to argue I am just defending the intent of the ammendment and suggesting that we all should defend it and not play the game that liberal politicians like to play (ie. "well err umm... there werent bazookas back then so... errr.. umm... the ammendment cant apply to those... err ... umm... of course not! .... ... .can it?").
> 
> Whenever interpreting the constitution remember that it was written to give limited powers to the federal government, not to spell out the rights of citizens. The Bill of Rights (the first 10 ammendments) were added because some states wanted to put some especially important rights of the individual down on paper because they feared a federal government that would say "well... err.. ummm... theres no law that says you can have a weapon or use it (bear it)... soo... err... umm... off to the gulag with you". All rights not specifically given to the federal government belong in the hands of the states and/or citizen.
> 
> The fact is we should all be argueing that the constitution does not give the gov't the right to modify our ammo in any way... much less our arms as those are specifically excluded by the constitution.


I agree with you 110% Hopefully enough people will decide to wake up before it's to late. The biggest problem I see is so many people have the " Hey I don't own a gun so why should I care if they ban bullets" They can't see that if the libs get their foot in the "constitutional" door, where will they stop? What will they decide to "ban" next? Just because the constitution doesn't expressly say the right to________________?

The internet? shutting it down would end forums like this one as a means for like minds people to share their views and exchange info? The constitution they could say allows free speech, BUT it doesn't say the right to the internet. Okay so the "people" "say okay with me I don't use the internet" then whats next? If we don't start banding together and standing up for our rights as they were intended and are obvious to someone with any common sense can see, and not well it doesn't say_____________. Were all screwed.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

Doomskull said:


> I just heard that manufacturers of ammunition are putting and agent in their powder that renders the round inert after a certain period of time. Can anyone verify this and are they doing it to regular reloading powder also? If this is true then it's an in your face, proof-positive sign that "they" are seriously moving against honest citizens. To me anyhow.
> 
> Found something along the same lines...
> 
> ...


As far as I know, it is just on newly manufactured ammunition. Not reloads, and not reloading supplies. Hillary had a lot to do with this.


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## Davo45 (Apr 29, 2011)

I believe that this is an urban legend, quite possibly started by Russia, Yugoslavia, Romania or any other country that's competing with U.S. manufacturers for the ammunition market. I'll tell you why I believe this: 

Many police agencies stockpile both training as well as duty ammunition and not all of it is necessarily purchased on a state bid especially when all of the ammunition allotted for the state bid is gone. My small agency has purchased ammo at the lowest price (U.S. manufactured due to liability issues). 

As I believe the oldsoldier said earlier, if an officer's service weapon failed to go off especially when they tried multiple times and suffered death or serious injury you can bet that whatever company manufactured the ammo would beg to settle out of court for a large amount in hopes that the agency didn't put the word out nationwide. You can also bet that every LE agency in the country would be seeing if their duty ammo worked if it didn't all hades would break loose. Very much the same thing would happen if several LE agencies (as well as public shooting ranges) all had cases of training ammo that failed to fire. 

If it ever did happen, the U.S. ammunition industry as a whole would cease to exist and everyone would be buying their ammo from Russia, etc. including LE agencies. That's not even including the massive amounts of 9mm NATO, 5.56mm NATO & 7.62mm NATO that U.S. manufacturers sell to the U.S. and other countries military and police forces. They could CLAIM all they wanted that it only affected ammo intended for CIVILIAN use, but nobody would ever believe them or buy from them again.

Nope, I don't buy it, never have.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

*primer timer*

perhaps the government masters, I mean, people put the rumor out BECAUSE they can not really change the shelf life of power or primers. :scratch if most of the people think that ammo is only good for a year or two would you keep more than what you use? I would not, but then I don't generally listen to the government.


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## Skeeter (Nov 7, 2009)

I wouldn't waste the time to even think that this is true.


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