# Where the hell can I bug out to?



## teenprepper1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Hey. I am a teenage prepper. I have 1 cabinet full of supplies and bug out bags. I have tactical training and my father is an electrical engineer and has a PH D in physics. He is in the navy active duty also. We also have 400 cannisters of teavana tea which is the highest quality tea for bargaining. Our BOB's have basic supplies. (we have sleeping bags which most people overlook). We unfortunately dont have our own land. so where the heck can we go? We wanna find a place that has the basics available. any suggesitions on what to look for with a area of land that we dont own but can go to if the shit hits the fan? We have 2 shotguns 2 handguns a crossbow and we are getting a AR-15. We live in virginia in suburb area. What areas are good to go to and what are we looking for?:beercheer:


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

See if you can find a place in a state forest, and well away from people. Your BOL should be at least a tank full of gas away from the city. You won't be able to build a permanent shelter, but you can find a suitable location to set up a camp site, well hidden, defensible and close to water. Also learn some primitive survival skills for just in case.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

No anybody with land say outside a town? County, state er federal land round yall? It ain't the best, but would beat nothin. Just remember ifin ya don't own it, other folk gonna prolly show up to. I don't plan on goin nowhere lessin I really gotta.

I'd be carefull tellin to many folk what all yall got though. Specially on the interweb. Never know who be lookin at what. I didn't used ta be this paranoid, but this ain't the same country I grew up in.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Just stay on the naval base... seems like that would quickly setup as a civilization short of it being bombed or something. If your dad is as well established as you say, then he'll be needed and you've got a better chance than running out into a mess of the uncivilized.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

I don't know the area or your exact situation, but bugging out with no place to go could be worse than bugging in. It may be better just to stay put, at least until things calm down. Consider your areas possible hazards, then assess what you could do to make where you are more livable and defensible.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

drfacefixer said:


> Just stay on the naval base... seems like that would quickly setup as a civilization short of it being bombed or something. If your dad is as well established as you say, then he'll be needed and you've got a better chance than running out into a mess of the uncivilized.


Sorta depends on who yall be runnin from. Just sayin.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

*Do you have any friends? Family?*



teenprepper1 said:


> Hey. I am a teenage prepper. I have 1 cabinet full of supplies and bug out bags. I have tactical training and my father is an electrical engineer and has a PH D in physics. He is in the navy active duty also. We also have 400 cannisters of teavana tea which is the highest quality tea for bargaining. Our BOB's have basic supplies. (we have sleeping bags which most people overlook). We unfortunately dont have our own land. so where the heck can we go? We wanna find a place that has the basics available. any suggesitions on what to look for with a area of land that we dont own but can go to if the shit hits the fan? We have 2 shotguns 2 handguns a crossbow and we are getting a AR-15. We live in virginia in suburb area. What areas are good to go to and what are we looking for?:beercheer:


One of the things that I am always on the lookout for is what friends and family have. I am of the opinion that whats mine is yours if you are truly my friend or my family; and while there are certainly members of my family who I would definitely not invite (of ever take) to my BOL, if you turned up (willing to work) I likely would not turn you away. Now not all people (on this forum) think this way, and some might be none too happy if you turned up, but one of the things that I think is essential to prepping is keeping an inventory of who has what, as far as supplies go, and this includes land. (In a serious SHTF who knows who will live and who will die, your survival might depend on you knowing where resources are that used to belong to dead people--I call this scavenging not looting or stealing.)

To be truly prepared the next and more difficult step is to talk to them about SHTF (start with a hurricane before talking about TEOTWAWKI), and see if you can come to some level of agreement about mutual aid. As a teenager this might be difficult to do with an adult, perhaps you could encourage your dad to have such a conversation, but even having this sort of conversation with another teen your age might ensure you a place in someone else's home. Particularly if you show up with supplies and know-how.

Of course the final step of this sort of plan is a formalized group.

Even if/when you have a BOL this strategy is an essential redundancy. If two is one and one is none, then that goes for BOLs too, but few people can afford more than one... therefore a mutual aid group makes sense to all involve. Personally I have a BOL a few hours from my current location, but also an option 30minutes, 1hr, and 2hrs, all along the way to my BOL, and once there I have two alternative locations pick out.

In keeping with the possibility of scavenging also think about shelters that do not belong to anyone, are abandoned, or might be vacant for parts of the year. Empty or abandoned homes, in wooded areas emergency shelters (which are often stocked with food and very secluded), seasonal resort motels/lodges, etc. For instance in New England we have two extremes, summer coastal lodgings that often closed in the winter and winter mountain lodgings that often close or scale back business in the summer. I don't think I am ruining op-sec to say that one of my alternative options is a remote camp ground with shelters and fuel prepositioned, that is closed from September to May.

:eyebulge:I am sure some one will comment on the morality:eyebulge: 
of even considering someone else's property, but in a SHTF making USE of someone else's *UNOCCUPIED* property is not stealing, particularly if you strive to leave it better than you found it and are willing to vacate the property if someone with a valid claim on it turns up.


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## Genevieve (Sep 21, 2009)

Has the OP talked with the dad about this? two heads are better than one ya know. dad might have already assumed a solution and just hasn't informed you. ( this is what my husband does. apparently I'm supposed to read his mind *rollseyes*)


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Depending on your location, there are many state or federally owned 'public' places that you could utilize (state parks, even historic towns that will more than likely be abandoned by employees). If you are closer to the western part of the state (Russell, Dickinson, Buchanan, Wise and surrounding counties), just head to the hills. There are MANY hillside properties expertly hidden by past generations as old moonshine still sites; always near water! 

Talk to your dad, get a map and brainstorm some locations. Then take trips to scout them out.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> *Just remember ifin' ya don't own it, other folk gonna prolly show up, too.* I don't plan on goin nowhere lessin I really gotta.


I would never go to "federal or public forests", cause everyone else will be thinking the same thing! Plenty of fish and deer to feed everybody! Yeah, right.....



k0xxx said:


> ...bugging out with no place to go could be worse than bugging in. It may be better just to stay put.


100% correct


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> There are MANY hillside properties expertly hidden by past generations as old moonshine still sites; always near water!


That is called trespassing. 
Pre-SHTF, perhaps a "warning shot" will be given to scare you away.
Post-SHTF, I doubt it was a warning if it didn't hit you... most likely just bad aim.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

LincTex said:


> That is called trespassing.
> Pre-SHTF, perhaps a "warning shot" will be given to scare you away.
> Post-SHTF, I doubt it was a warning if it didn't hit you... most likely just bad aim.


Its only called trespassing if someone is living there, if not it is called squatting--I think dixiemama is refering to abandoned sites of illegal moonship operations from the prohibition era if I am not mistaken. The problem with going someplace you are not invited is the danger involved with determining the difference.

I DEFINITELY would not go out into the woods, unless you have the training to survive rough, which most of us don't!

Also, I would consider seriously the possibility that the Base may be the safest best prepared place around, at least initially.

That doesn't mean you don't want to have other options, particularly because I have a feeling most of the brass these days don't think outside the box. My feeling is that most of them will squander the early preparedness lead they have by using rations and supplies under the assumption that things will get back to normal. If they do, GREAT, if they don't I doubt they will transition men from standing watch in non-essential areas that don't matter any more (ship maintenance for instance) to things like growing food. This isn't just my opinion, MainePrepper, a former SF first Sargent, actually writes about this in his book The Walls Come Tumbling Down--bases continuing a disaster relief mission, when it is really self-preservation that is needed. First they lose operational readiness, and soon thereafter they become no longer viable to support the Base families. They forget the prime rule of disaster relief, you need to provide for your own survival if you are going to help anyone else. Normalcy bias, may ruin many good setups in a real TEOTWAWKI situation.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I wasn't talking about occupied properties, I'm talking old abandoned sites that would only been seen from aerial photos.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Padre said:


> Its only called trespassing if someone is living there, if not it is called squatting--.....


_Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person's property without permission. _

If you entered any of our properties without our permission, you're trespassing. It doesn't make any difference if it's ten minutes, ten hours, ten days.... and it certainly doesn't make any difference if we live there....


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> I wasn't talking about occupied properties, I'm talking old abandoned sites that would only been seen from aerial photos.


They are STILL owned by *somebody*!?!?

Someone is paying taxes on that property, and five will get you ten that whoever that somebody is, they know FULL well about that old 'shine site!! I know I would!

This reminds me of stuff my son "finds" in the garage.... like it was a "new discovery" of some sort to all of us.  It may be new to him, but I knew damn well it was in there, because I was the one that put it in there 5 years ago!

Even if the 'still site was on "federal" land, there is someones brother's cousin's nephew's papa that knows about it as well, 'cause their ol' grandad used to go up there 20 years ago, and he would go with 'im when he was still knee-high to a grasshopper.....

Now - - two people head out to the ol' shine site post-SHTF.... one has known about it for 20 years, the other one just found it last year. Which one do you think has a better chance of utilizing that area to their benefit?


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## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

Good advice is already posted.

#1 talk to Dad about his plans.
#2 don't rule out bugging IN.
#3 far far better to go somewhere that you are invited - like to land where a friend, relative, fellow church member etc. is ready to welcome you in and swap your work and resources for what they have to share including a dry place to slep.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

"Trespassing" may depend on what level of SHTF we're talking about, but I don't want to open a discussion on that.

When we lived in SE Kentucky in the 90s we were "at the head of the holler", and the kids and I explored all over the hills. We found a few old Still sites, and most were on public property, well-hidden in that steep, overgrown, heavily-forested terrain. There were usually good crevices and caves around them where we found wash tubs and other old things stashed. The leaves and debris on and around these things indicated no one had been around in quite some time.

If the O.P. has to bug out from his suburban location some of those Appalachian 'hollers' can still be good places to hole up. That country turns into a maze, and a lot of city folks are going to be scared to tackle it. Yes, yes, I know, all the "I'm gonna go live off the lands" types will be roaming through there too, but sometimes you just have to make a plan and give it your best shot.

That's not saying that staying home isn't the best idea. I don't recall the O.P. saying they live on base, just that his Dad is active Navy and they don't own their own place. It could be an off-base rental, but even so, they could probably get on base and hunker down there...I guess?

If he does find a good bug-out location my advice is to stock it. Living off the land is baloney. It takes a lot more rabbits, deer, and salad greens to survive than most people realize. And the weather can suck. Bury some buckets or other containers with supplies, both at your bug-out location and along the route to it. I've even known people to cache gas along the route in case they have to leave without a full tank of gas. Study the subject of caching (hiding/burying) supplies because if you do it wrong, others might find it, or your supplies might be destroyed by water, critters, or whatever. 

Good luck. I think it's awesome for a teenage to be giving thought to this sort of thing.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

Does your father buy into bugging out? Staying on the base is certainly one option. Your firearms will not be allowed in most cases. 

If you are intent on bugging out then look West toward the mountains of Western Virginia or into West Virginia. Look at smaller communities away from the urban areas. I have to assume you are in the Norfolk area which means you are currently living in a swamp. You are also close to the NC line and that is another option. I prefer to be on high ground when it comes to having a good BOL. 

One thing to remember is people will be coming to any government installation hoping to find help. They want to believe that Uncle Sam is going to take care of them no matter what.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

k0xxx said:


> I don't know the area or your exact situation, but bugging out with no place to go could be worse than bugging in. It may be better just to stay put, at least until things calm down. Consider your areas possible hazards, then assess what you could do to make where you are more livable and defensible.


Best advice ever for every one out there, leaving your known area for the unknown is wrong and can lead to more troubles ahead.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

LincTex said:


> I would never go to "federal or public forests", cause everyone else will be thinking the same thing! Plenty of fish and deer to feed everybody! Yeah, right.....
> 
> 100% correct


Many will try an fail very quickly an move onta easier pickens. Tough work livin offin the land. We see it ever year durin deer season. City slickers try ta hunt public lands an fail miserably. All there fancy high tech stuff don't mean they know what they be a doin. Same thin (even more so) will happen post shtf.

Those that have skills an knowledge will fair much better even ifin it be public lands.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Do you know how many abandoned properties there are in southeast KY with owners who don't know they own anything, and no taxes paid because the state doesn't know where to send the bill? 

If you are close enough to the counties listed, PM me and I'll tell you a few in each county that would be a good BOL.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I do know of a place that the owners walked out on back in the early 90s. Nothing was owed on the place, except probably property taxes. It was passed down through the family and no one wanted it. They left the deed on the mantle and left. It's in an isolated 'holler' with only one other resident quite a ways from it. I haven't been back since we moved away eleven years ago so I can't say it's still sitting there. It had 50 acres with it, an old but water-tight house, and a couple of sheds. A person could probably dig around and find it or others. 

It was in Letcher county, Kentucky, about 17 miles west of Whitesburg. We lived in the area for 6 years, 1996 to 2002.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

dixiemama said:


> and no taxes paid because the state doesn't know where to send the bill?


That only lasts for a couple years while the state waits for back-taxes (due every year), and once the land is seized due to unpaid taxes the state takes ownership of it. In Texas and North Dakota, the land is usually then donated to the closest school district. The school can choose to rent it, or sell to the public by either sealed bids or public auction.



gypsysue said:


> I do know of a place that the owners walked out on back in the early 90s. Nothing was owed on the place, except probably property taxes. It was passed down through the family and no one wanted it. They left the deed on the mantle and left.


Wow, I can't even imagine trying to wrap my mind around this. Why would anyone not want it??? Not even *TRY* to sell it, not even for $100? Oh well, the state owns it now.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

No the state doesn't; that's not how KY land law works. I am a paralegal who works in an office that deals with land laws daily. Trust me when I tell you that the last person to get a deed for the property still owns it, just tax liens are placed against it. 

Where I live, we own the whole head of a holler (300 acres). Just outside of our back fence is property that is owned by my husbands distant kin. No property taxes have been paid in 20 years. There is a lien on the property for those, but its in such a remote location that you have to walk to that Tax Ease Lien (based out of Dallas, TX) won't take it to court because no one wants it. 

Abandoned property is NOT turned over to the state of KY. If the city/county/state wants to do anything with it, they have to spend 18 months contacting the last known owner to advise them of the condition of the property and what needs to be done to bring it up to code. If after those 18 months the owners don't want the property, whoever has back tax liens has to foreclose on the property and its sold by the Master Commissioner of that county to the highest bidder at auction. If the state is the winning bidder, any structures are torn down and the land is usually resold for housing development. VA laws are almost identical. 

Again, I told the OP to look at aerial photos for properties that appear abandoned and visit them to be sure.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

camo2460 said:


> See if you can find a place in a state forest, and well away from people. Your BOL should be at least a tank full of gas away from the city. You won't be able to build a permanent shelter, but you can find a suitable location to set up a camp site, well hidden, defensible and close to water. Also learn some primitive survival skills for just in case.


 Sorry camo but I must 100% disagree here. A state /federal park/ wilderness area is a very, very, very, bad idea! for many reasons. First off there will be dozens if not hundreds of others with the same idea. You never know who might either get there first or try to move you off the spot by force. Plus the fact of while wooded area may well be in abundance it would be hard to stay well concealed and defensible against the other people who will decend on it as I said before. In addition you'll be unable to safely store/ cache supplies prior to using/ needing them, so you'll have only what you are able to bring with you. Other people in the area will either scare off or be heavy compitention for the limited game. Also many state/ federal parks don't have an abundance of water mush less safe to use without purification. Your better off hooking up with a property owner, and group with them if you can.

Second IMHO "at least a tank away" is to far away especially during a SHTF scenario to safely travel, plus the quite real possibility of being unable to re-fuel during travel. You could carry extra fuel but to me in a BO situation that space could be much better used to carry food, water and other needed to live supplies. Our Primary BOL is to me as far away as I would want to travel during an "incident" and that's 70 miles away. Our secondary and third location are within 50 miles.

I do agree with you about learning the skills.


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## teenprepper1 (Jan 13, 2013)

Thanks for so many responses. My dad gave me control. I control what we buy, what guns we have and other stuff haha. We will most likely spot a place dense in greens such as bushes and has running water. But it sucks because we havent bought land yet. In a year or two we will buy land and make a bunker.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Living said:


> Trespass is defined by the act of knowingly entering another person's property without permission.
> 
> If you entered any of our properties without our permission, you're trespassing. It doesn't make any difference if it's ten minutes, ten hours, ten days.... and it certainly doesn't make any difference if we live there....


How do you know its someone's property my friend if no one is there? Perhaps it is abandoned, perhaps the owners dead, perhaps it was seized by the State for failure to pay taxes. Fact is paper ownership is all well and good today but by definition in A WROL situation it is next to meaningless. It is a major normalacy bias!!! Even now posession is 9-10ths of the law, in many states if you live on unoccupied property continually for a number of years you can claim the title for that property.

What I am suggesting is not taking everything that is not nailed down or guarded, but making use of resources not being used with the full intention to surrender them if the owner turns up.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

Padre said:


> How do you know its someone's property my friend if no one is there? Perhaps it is abandoned, perhaps the owners dead, perhaps it was seized by the State for failure to pay taxes. Fact is paper ownership is all well and good today but by definition in A WROL situation it is next to meaningless. It is a major normalacy bias!!! Even now posession is 9-10ths of the law, in many states if you live on unoccupied property continually for a number of years you can claim the title for that property.
> 
> What I am suggesting is not taking everything that is not nailed down or guarded, but making use of resources not being used with the full intention to surrender them if the owner turns up.


And to add to Padre's response, I must point out that, by the time a collapse occurs, many (if not most) of the abandoned properties will be owned by banks in distant cities.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Or the Chineese.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

There are some states that if you live (squat) on land for so many years, even if you have permission from the owner, you can claim it for your own. I had an aunt that lived out of travel trailer on my property for a number of years. Just to avoid any legal issues, I rented the land to her for a dollar per year, with a legal rent agreement signed by both parties. I didn't think that there would ever be a problem, but it's always best to CYA.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

In KY its 15 years and called 'adverse possession'. Use the property as your own for 15 years (abandoned properties or without any known owners), petition the court for a deed and the Master Commissioner will issue one. Takes about a year BC they try to notify any owners if possible, but if none can be found or if they are found and don't care, you get the deed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Adverse possession made these two people very hated enemies of many, many people

Richard McLean and Edith Stevens

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/03/nation/na-land3

http://badidea.wordpress.com/2007/1...lder-colorado-should-be-remembered-as-crooks/

http://landgrabber.org/


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Those aren't anywhere near here; its all out west. 

My husbands grandfather acquired 200 acres by it. We have a deed for them from the Master Commissioned because he had it for 15 years and took care of it. 

Its an option NOW; SHTF, I don't think there will be many ppl who survive long enough to enforce boundary lines.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

teenprepper1 said:


> Hey. I am a teenage prepper. I have 1 cabinet full of supplies and bug out bags. I have tactical training and my father is an electrical engineer and has a PH D in physics. He is in the navy active duty also. We also have 400 cannisters of teavana tea which is the highest quality tea for bargaining. Our BOB's have basic supplies. (we have sleeping bags which most people overlook). We unfortunately dont have our own land. so where the heck can we go? We wanna find a place that has the basics available. any suggesitions on what to look for with a area of land that we dont own but can go to if the shit hits the fan? We have 2 shotguns 2 handguns a crossbow and we are getting a AR-15. We live in virginia in suburb area. What areas are good to go to and what are we looking for?:beercheer:


It may be too late to really do what I think. Living in a suburban area in Virginia is not a place I would want to be.

When I was a teenager, my living situation was not good. I was raised by a mean, narcissistic, hateful grandmother. My life was miserable. I used to leave the house (sometimes with a bag packed) and go walk as far as I could get. I lived in a very small town, far from any where. I was often looking for places that I could camp.

For you, as a teenager, you might look at maps of your area, and set up a plan with your parents. You might consider weekend camping trips. If you can get a parent to take you somewhere within a tank of gas, you could practice your camping skills and begin exploring ideas. Do you have a like minded friend, someone, or even a few that would/could go with you and help you with your endeavor? It would be best if your parents would join you and support your interest, but I know how that can go.

If you can't get any parental support, what about taking a train or a bus to a location for a day trip to explore? I would only do this with your parents knowledge and awareness. And with this idea, either a plan where to spend the night that the parents know of, or to be home that evening.

Be safe, keep your parents informed, and make it an adventure.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

OldCootHillbilly said:


> Sorta depends on who yall be runnin from. Just sayin.


 LOL, I was thinking the same thing.:wave:


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I have cousins living in various parts of the country. I would Bug In if at all possible, but if forced to Bug Out I would go to one of my cousins and they know that they could Bug Out to my place if they needed to.

I would guess with a military family you have family or close friends scattered about and you could set up similar arrangements.


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