# Top 100 things that disappear first in an emergency.



## sewingcreations15

Hi all and I thought I would post this article for the point of discussion and for all of us to think of things we may not have and to update our preps as our budget allows  .

Now lets see if I can do a quote properly  . Okay I know not, so will copy and paste underneath the link.

Here is the link - http://www.all-about-preparedness.com/p/store.html

*100 Items to Disappear First*

1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.) 
15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric) 
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Goats/chickens

From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.

1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
near renewable food sources.
2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
bulk.
6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
have a lot of time on your hands.
7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches

100 Top Items Disappearing in War or Natural Disaster

Happy prepping.

Sewingcreations15.


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## Danil54

During hurricane first to go at grocery stores not mentioned (I may have missed) is bread. Learn to make your own. Use a starter so you don't worry about yeast.


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## sewingcreations15

You are right @Danil54 no bread is mentioned just the ingredients to make it and other items but bearing in mind that most don't know how to make their own bread. Sour dough bread is one I know of that you can start with a starter .


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## AmishHeart

I betcha the first to go in our area in New Mexico is any premade convenience food. The majority of our population here is on welfare and do not know how to cook. Our fast food industry makes a ton around here. Most of our students bring premade everything to school for their lunches. Even those premade peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. 
That's a good list, Sewing Creations.


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## sewingcreations15

@AmishHeart and most welcome for the list and you are so right there is so many people who cannot cook and have never learnt or been taught to do it either. I can quite believe that most of the convenience foods would go first off the shelves.

I am shocked that most students even bring premade sandwiches to school from home. It is not hard to make a sandwich and is far cheaper to make it at home rather than them too.


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## AmishHeart

and premade "lunchables". Do you have those in Australia? Not even real cheese in them (see earlier diarrhea post, ha). Terribly overpriced for cut up lunch meat, a few crackers, and fake cheese. The "pizza" and "nacho" ones are even worse.


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## Meerkat

AmishHeart said:


> and premade "lunchables". Do you have those in Australia? Not even real cheese in them (see earlier diarrhea post, ha). Terribly overpriced for cut up lunch meat, a few crackers, and fake cheese. The "pizza" and "nacho" ones are even worse.


 Hard to believe more are poisoned by these products.

One of the most important things to grow, IMO is potatoes. And so far we have not had a good crop. I want to learn to grow them in big containers but no luck yet. I know all the procedures but something ain't right we are doing.


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## dademoss

I didn't even know you could buy a premade PB&J sandwich


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## ssonb

I wonder if you could offer prep class On how to construct a PB&J from base materials.


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## Starcreek

> 8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.


Use a knife and a fork.

There are so many things on this list can be done with what you already have on hand, or can be easily grown or made with a little knowledge and skill. The second list is much more valuable.

Thanks for posting the list, sewingcreations, but it sounds -- once again -- like somebody who is stocking their cupboard without stocking their brain.


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## backlash

I saw toast for sale in a grocery store.
If someone can't make their own toast they are doomed even in normal times.

I think one of the first thing that will disappear in a true TEOTWAWKI will be outside help.
FEMA will never be able to help everyone and the local authorities are going to be tied up helping their family and friends.
If you can't take care of yourself you will suffer greatly.


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## terri9630

dademoss said:


> I didn't even know you could buy a premade PB&J sandwich


They are called uncrustables and are sold in the freezer section.


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## dademoss

Oh the seconds/minutes I have wasted making toast and PB&J. I even read an article saying that the cereal industry was declining because it was too hard to put cereal and milk in a bowl and clean the bowl when you are done. 

“Americans don’t necessarily have the time to enjoy a sit-down breakfast anymore and they’re looking for portability,” said Amanda Topper, food analyst at Mintel. “Convenience is more important to parents with lifestyle shifts and hectic day-to-day schedules.”

In addition, “people see eating cereal as time-consuming because it’s not something you can do on the go, like eating a protein bar,” said Rory Masterson, who tracks the industry for IBISWorld.

The desire for convenience seems to be especially pronounced among millennials, the generation aged 18 to 34. When Mintel surveyed consumers about cereal a year ago, 39% of millennials said cereal was inconvenient because you have to clean a dish afterward.


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## weedygarden

AmishHeart said:


> I betcha the first to go in our area in New Mexico is any premade convenience food. The majority of our population here is on welfare and do not know how to cook. Our fast food industry makes a ton around here. Most of our students bring premade everything to school for their lunches. Even those premade peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.
> That's a good list, Sewing Creations.


White bread (yuck), peanut butter and jelly. The peanut butter is the best nutrition there and they would be better off just eating p.b. out of the jar with a spoon.
Yes, I have had students bring pre-made crustless white bread peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to school, along with their chips and other food that completely lacks nutrition.
In many schools, peanut butter is not allowed now due to so many children having p.b. allergies.

I know that there are many diabetics on the reservations in New Mexico. There was a news program about it on television a number of years ago. The story also talked about the fact that their diet was so overly processed, fried and sugary, and lacked basic nutrition. They would be much better off with a keto type diet, but they prefer to eat pizza, fries, chips, soda, candies, cookies and other junk food.


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## Danil54

sewingcreations15 said:


> You are right @Danil54 no bread is mentioned just the ingredients to make it and other items but bearing in mind that most don't know how to make their own bread. Sour dough bread is one I know of that you can start with a starter .


Can also make a starter using potatoes flakes but same concept. 1 c Water, 1 pk yeast, 1/2 c sugar & 3 T potatoes flakes. Ferment then feed every 3-5 days. I like the sour dough myself and that is what I have in the fridge right now for making bread type things. But this one is a good alternative cause you don't need the milk.

You are right about a lot of people not knowing how to make bread or even cook now days. As mentioned, people rely on convenience foods. I have those for busy days to, but its called preplanning. When cooking at night, just double the recipe and put in freezer. Pull out before you go to work, it will be defrosted by the time you get home. For on the run breakfast, heat up a breakfast burrito from the freezer. These are made at home using excess chicken eggs. It really doesn't take that long, but for some, I guess they are just too busy.

I kinda got a chuckle about storing a bunch of gravy. . .


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## dademoss

weedygarden said:


> The peanut butter is the best nutrition there and they would be better off just eating p.b. out of the jar with a spoon.


My favorite snack


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## Tank_Girl

My top few that disappear in an emergency that I've come across in the yearly cyclones are-

#1- Common sense.

#2 - bread and milk and bottled water.

#3 - Fuel of all descriptions. This includes bottled gas and batteries.

#4- Beer. The old timers who are used to cyclones don't race around like a chook with it's head cut off because they've been through this a hundred times before and have already stocked up on shelf stable supplies and have everything squared away. They calmly go to the large bottle stores and stock up on beer for that first cyclone BBQ party of the season and invite their friends and family which goes a fair way towards running down the stock of food in the fridge and freezer.
If there's going to be a disaster then you may as well enjoy yourself while you can.



Here in the North I see it every wet season when the first cyclone is announced.

The "Southerners" race to the shops to stock up on bread and milk!
For real! Two of the least shelf stable things in a modern kitchen and these pinheads are stocking up when, dollars to doughnuts, the cyclone will drop powerlines like matchsticks.
No power to keep that shopping trolley filled with milk and overly squashed bread fresh.


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## sewingcreations15

@AmishHeart no we don't have lunchables here in Australia and I am gathering that is something like a plastic like craft cheese in the container ?. So they sell them in

I am even more stunned they sell them and never heard of premade P&B sandwiches (uncrustables I gather are sandwiches with the crusts cut off ?) being sold in the freezer section of the supermarket either @dademoss, news to me  . @backlash news to me on the premade toast too, well if you can't do that you are done for anyway.

We do however have snacks sold in multi packets for children such as individually wrapped muesli bars ( yes you guessed it so much artificial yuck and lots of sugar in them), packets of 6 or so crackers and fake spreadable cheese in containers. They also sell premade sandwiches at mainly service stations or snack bars and now making an appearance in larger shopping centre supermarkets in major towns. Things that stun me is the new trend of selling salad leaves such as lettuce and spinach prewashed in a bag for $30 odd dollars a kilogram and now they are packaging soup mix vegetables such as turnip, swede and 1 carrot in a container with cling wrap for similar prices. What is wrong with people that they can't buy a lettuce or a bunch of spinach and wash it themselves for a far cheaper price ?.

@TheLazyL yes brains comes in top of the list of needed items in an emergency and also as @Tank_Girl so aptly puts it common sense is another big thing to have as well. Not being unkind here but there goes 90% of the population in the first month of a tragedy because if you think any government or agency will save you most are sadly mistaken because you know they will be looking after the 90% who do things like buy their toast.


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## sewingcreations15

@Starcreek I agree that many of the things on the list could be substituted with things we all know about and alternative techniques. The list is from an LDS site that more concentrates on stocking pantries and homes and is designed for beginners as well as for some more advanced on their prepping journey. The experience of the Sarajevo survivor is good advice however and is a more realistic appraisal of any situation I feel.


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## sewingcreations15

@weedygarden and @AmishHeart I will also agree as in most parts of the world a nutritious diet varies widely according to people's incomes or lack there of. Most of the poorer areas in most countries tend to be congregated into one area or particular suburbs and they are the population that have highly processed artificial colours, flavours and preservatives and sugar in their diets.


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## sewingcreations15

I think prior preparation and planning and bulk cooking as mentioned by @Danil54 for the busy family but is sadly lacking in society today and as @dademoss has pointed out in latest studies. Also people have become incredibly lazy too and have forgotten or never been taught in a lot of cases to cook or been taught about basic nutrition either.


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## sewingcreations15

@Danil54 can I touch base with you here on the potato flake bread starter as to how much yeast you put in and how to feed it too. This is not something I have done so would appreciate some more information. We also cannot get potato flakes here in Australia but do get instant potatoes in a packet and I was wondering if you could substitute that ?.


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## Danil54

sewingcreations15 said:


> @Danil54 can I touch base with you here on the potato flake bread starter as to how much yeast you put in and how to feed it too. This is not something I have done so would appreciate some more information. We also cannot get potato flakes here in Australia but do get instant potatoes in a packet and I was wondering if you could substitute that ?.


I posted over in recipe share. Didn't want to highjack your original thread. That recipe can also be made with mashed potatoes from my understandings from the person I received it from. I just have not because I had potato flakes in storage that needed used. I store the flakes in a just in case scenario, but when I make mashed potatoes, I peel the real ones. 

This recipe makes the best cinnamon rolls too.


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## sewingcreations15

Thanks shall look over there for the recipe and thanks for the additional tips  , I am partial to cinnamon rolls too.


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## Meerkat

dademoss said:


> My favorite snack


 Hubby likes it too.


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## Meerkat

sewingcreations15 said:


> Thanks shall look over there for the recipe and thanks for the additional tips  , I am partial to cinnamon rolls too.


 My goodness that is hubbys favorite pastry of all time. I like chocolate eclairs and cinnimon buns in that order.


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## VoorTrekker

TheLazyL said:


> I didn't see "Brains" on the list of 100.


You're thinking of a different apocalypse where brains are consumed. Oh, wait, you meant lacking in brains...never mind.


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## weedygarden

Danil54 said:


> I kinda got a chuckle about storing a bunch of gravy. . .


Making gravy is like rocket science to some. There are people who have stocked gravy mix in their preps.


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## sewingcreations15

@weedygarden yes there a lot who would have stored gravy mix in their preps too not knowing how to make it, @Danil54 I found that amusing too .

@VoorTrekker I instantly thought of zombies too when I read @TheLazyL post on brains too  .


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## crabapple

#11 vegetable oil, you can cook without it, the right pan on the right heat, meat has its on oil.
#93 cigarettes take up space & is a waste.
#96 is listed in #90
Over all it is a good list, I have about 50% of the list, because I use them now.
I found a store that sell the hard bar shaving soap & cup for men, that will last for years unopened.
If you are going to have milk animals, you need to learn to make butter & cheese now.
Pigs & rabbit are easy to raise too. Pigs take up more space, rabbits can be raise off the ground above chicken pin. Most poultry are easy to raise.


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## sewingcreations15

@crabapple yes I noticed the repeat in #96 and #90 too. Also agree on learning to make your own cheese and butter and as an addition learn to butcher meat yourself as well now so you know what you are doing.


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## obg12

Coleman ovens and toasters need to be on the list or build your own


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## sewingcreations15

@obg12 yes they are a good addition too and I think I might add a solar oven in that list too now that electricity is becoming so horribly expensive.


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## sewingcreations15

Going on the second part of the survival list of the Sarajevo war survivor, what does everyone think would be good tradable items. Would be interested in everyone's input as these are also things we have to think about should our stocks run out in an emergency situation.

I will go with the obvious one is toilet paper.


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## ssonb

I have seen people store cans of "diet" type reduced calorie foodstuffs !!!One of the owners of a "pantry" understood when I said, You try to pack as many calories into your storage as you can, Don't worry you will be on a diet.


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## AmishHeart

After some time has passed, and depending on the season a big event happens, I would say seeds. Food items overall are always going to be a good trade because I don't think there will be enough. Maybe, too, unusual foods that are not grown in the US much. Coffee beans come to mind. Bananas would be fairly non existant. Guess I should dehydrate more of them.


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## ssonb

OH dang it...you reminded me I need to rebuild my seed bank.. This time of year is the best time to buy non hybrid seeds on sale and they will last in storage at least a couple of years. doing that you can modify the type of seeds to fit your demographics.


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## RedBeard

Maybe im the only one that see it this way, but the list has a lot of convenience items. A lot of modern fuel dependent items. In stead of stock piling things like propane why not learn how to make a methane digester? Or maybe learn how to extract fuel from wood. I don't know... I just prep with the thought that i can live very comfortably living in the old ways. The key to my prepping is being self sustainable now that way not much changes. Different strokes for different folks i guess.


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## SheepdogPRS

In heavily populated areas fuel is a big item. For those of us who live away from population centers it is less of a concern. Even at that there is no way that 40 acres is enough land to support trees for fuel. People in cities have a thing about light. That is why lamps and lamp fuel is a big thing. They don't know how to start fires without matches so matches and lighters are also a big deal. I don't think alcohol will be as big an item as folks think because it is easy to grow weed and everyone or most will have a supply. Still it is one of the big vices and it will come in handy for special occasions. Toilet paper is a no brainer. Most people wouldn't use a cloth wipe if they had it. It's too "dirty" and you have to wash and "sterilize" it. 

My shampoo, body wash and hand soap comes in the same bottle, it's called liquid dish detergent. It is a detergent and not soap. It will store forever, is a good disinfectant, and is made to rinse off cleanly. It is all I have used for the last 30 years and it's good on dishes and treating clothes too! Rub it into a grease or sweat stain before you wash the clothes and it comes out clean. Regular use kept me from getting head lice when the kids brought them home from school. My wife and all the kids shared their lice and I didn't get any. You can get it in a number of fragrances but I use the unscented variety.


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## weedygarden

I went through the list and wanted to find the most expensive items to purchase, the kinds of items that some preppers may have to save up for or financially plan for, making them the items that some people will not likely have. I edited the list to the more expensive type items. You can go to the grocery, hardware, or other stores and pick up some items for a nickel here, a dime there, and before you know it, you can have a basic stockpile of items. The items listed below take more planning.
I know some of you can give some input that is more refined.
Bikes can be found for free or cheap, if you work it, but there are good quality bikes and carts that are expensive and likely to get stolen if not watched or stored carefully.


sewingcreations15 said:


> Here is the link - http://www.all-about-preparedness.com/p/store.html
> 
> 1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
> 7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
> 14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.)
> 21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
> 23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
> 34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
> 64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
> 74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
> 86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
> 100 Top Items Disappearing in War or Natural Disaster


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## RedBeard

SheepdogPRS said:


> Even at that there is no way that 40 acres is enough land to support trees for fuel.


Are you saying that in reference to the city? The average home can sustain firewood for life from 5 acres of forest if harvested correctly. Even less land with the new insulations we have today.


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## RedBeard

Soap is easy my wife makes soap. Deodorant on the other hand, i have a box of old spice stashed. Few boxes of men's and women's might be a handy trade item. Not a necessity but could be handy for feeling human again and thus could be desirable.


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## ssonb

We went to one of the Dollar type stores and bought a couple of cases of soap and deodorants just for use in such circumstances........I'm not implying I am a big stinker but sometimes the evidence speaks for itself


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## SheepdogPRS

My wife says I smell "sexy" when I have been sweating but she is my wife and has been known to sweeten the truth to keep from hurting the only feeling I have left. I am not afraid of the shower and use liquid dish soap as shampoo, body wash and hand soap. I also use antiperspirant and cologne to keep her close. With all the work she does there has to be something to give her pleasure.


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## sewingcreations15

@AmishHeart good addition is the gardening seeds and we have a supply of those here saved from our gardens, also another good idea is soaps and deodorants, lets face it and be honest we all rather smell after a good days work  . Bicycles are a good idea as well as carts @weedygarden, we have small 4 wheel gardening carts here we use.

I would add in body wash as well as you can put a little into a travel bottle and use it for a tradable item. Another would be shave cream and disposable razors.


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## terri9630

I like cereal but don't buy it much anymore. Price has gone up and amounts have gone down. Just to expensive now a days.


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## weedygarden

terri9630 said:


> I like cereal but don't buy it much anymore. Price has gone up and amounts have gone down. Just to expensive now a days.


I don't really like cereal and haven't bought much of it in years. The only thing that could be considered cereal in my preps is oatmeal, rice, wheat and corn. What is good about cereal is the easiness of pouring a bowl of cereal and adding milk. It is just another processed food that America is hooked on. I really learned when I was teaching how children who have cereal for breakfast get very hungry mid-morning. Something with protein is a much better way to start the day--eggs, bacon, sausage, toast with peanut butter, yogurt, grilled cheese, cottage cheese. Protein sticks with you and keeps your blood sugar more stable. People who are diabetic especially should have protein for breakfast.

If I was eating more grains, I would be more interested in eating cooked whole or cracked wheat, rice, polenta, oatmeal. I am also the weirdo because I don't put sugar on cereal either, when I do eat it.


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## sewingcreations15

@terri9630 I don't mind the occasional commercial cereal either but because of prices we tend now to make our own granola. My preferred one was a sultana bran but then I found one at Aldi in a generic brand that was just as nice but far cheaper.

You are right though small commercial packs of cereal would probably be a good to put in preps for tradable items too.


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## sewingcreations15

I would probably stock also in for tradable items little plastic travel bottles and aerosol bottles that could be filled with shampoo, conditioner, perfume or aftershave too.


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## terri9630

I don't eat much processed food but processed or not, I like a bowl of cheerios or Froot Loops on a weekend morning or an afternoon snack.


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## cqp33

sewingcreations15 said:


> I would probably stock also in for tradable items little plastic travel bottles and aerosol bottles that could be filled with shampoo, conditioner, perfume or aftershave too.


I travel for work and I keep every shampoo, conditioner, soap and lotion bottle I get, soap bars to! We have boxes of them mainly from Hampton Inn's since that is my hotel of choice! My wife is sick of seeing them so I have stashed them in boxes in our "pantry" that is what we call our "storage room" in our basement.


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## sewingcreations15

@cqp33 yes those hotel, inn and motel travel soaps, lotions, shampoo and conditioners are perfect too and some supply shower caps too I noticed and all would be perfect to keep as a stash for tradable items too.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper

weedygarden said:


> Making gravy is like rocket science to some. There are people who have stocked gravy mix in their preps.


Last Thursday at coffee day, the usual critiquing of the younger generations was the conversation du jour along with yummy stuff to eat. I was so surprised when the 60'ish lady next to me said that home made gravy was gross. I asked why and it turns out she couldn't handle the concept of making something out of the left over frying bits in the bottom of the pan. It was dirty to her.

One older man just ordered a side of beef, rare enough these days, but was complaining he received all the icky bits; kidneys, heart, tongue, liver and no one wanted them. Neither himself nor his friends were even willing to feed them to their dogs as organ meat is bad. I said I would take them and they all looked at me like I just let out a silent killer.

Fresh (unprocessed pork picnics) on sale at the local store for a $1 lb and marked down another 40% because they weren't selling. The cashier asks what am I going to do with the cart load I bought and I explained that I would brine and smoke some, and dry age and smoke others to hang from the rafters. Darn, another silent killer got loose. At $5. a picnic, I wasn't going to leave them there. I guess I could trade smoked ham if any one had the fortitude to eat it and the government didn't put me in the slammer for selling toxic waste; not holding my breath though. Any one in fear of the food stash getting pilfered officially or un-officially simply needs to stock home made, and believe me, the pantry is safe.

S doesn't need to HTF. Its already over for most and no one knows it. I feel so out of place because I grew up in SHTF and don't need 75% of whats on the list. I just cannot relate to lists like that, so in a way, S has HTF for me. I just want to head for the hills and be a hermit.


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## weedygarden

terri9630 said:


> I don't eat much processed food but processed or not, I like a bowl of cheerios or Froot Loops on a weekend morning or an afternoon snack.


Cheerios is my cereal of choice, if and when I do have cereal. Somewhere I read that since they have changed to gluten free, they are not the same, the taste has changed and some people no longer like them. I don't know, I haven't had any in a few years. My daughter, who has celiac, does eat cheerios regularly, but not daily.


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## Danil54

I will get the generic brand of Cheerios and Fruit Loops. I like the Cheerios toasted in butter for a snack. Fruit Loops are a special treat for my goats. I also make my own granola with either honey or brown sugar, then throw in some pecans and dried cranberrirs. After cooked and cooling sometimes a handful of white chocolate. I don't eat breakfast most days so this is snack food too.

Homemade granola bars is another good option when on the go. Only bad thing there is if you leave them in a car and try to eat for lunch, they do loose their crispiness. I wrap in saran wrap, maybe if I vacuum sealed they would do better?


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## crabapple

In heavily populated areas fuel is a big item. For those of us who live away frompopulation centers it is less of a concern. Even at that there is no way that 40 acres is enough land to support trees for fuel.
If you use a degester or better a rocket stove, you can add a oven to bake bread.
You can grow hybrid Poplar on an acre & a half.
http://www.advancedtree.com/Tree-Hybrid-Poplar.aspx
This is the tree they make wood pellets out of because of it's fast growing.
Propane in a 500 gallon underground tank, not only gave you a nice price brake, it is a great way to store fuel for short & long time needs.


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## RedBeard

5 acres, harvested correctly will support the average houses heating for life. Let me edit that, at least here in new england.


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## JayJay

weedygarden said:


> I don't really like cereal and haven't bought much of it in years. The only thing that could be considered cereal in my preps is oatmeal, rice, wheat and corn. What is good about cereal is the easiness of pouring a bowl of cereal and adding milk. It is just another processed food that America is hooked on. I really learned when I was teaching how children who have cereal for breakfast get very hungry mid-morning. Something with protein is a much better way to start the day--eggs, bacon, sausage, toast with peanut butter, yogurt, grilled cheese, cottage cheese. Protein sticks with you and keeps your blood sugar more stable. People who are diabetic especially should have protein for breakfast.
> 
> If I was eating more grains, I would be more interested in eating cooked whole or cracked wheat, rice, polenta, oatmeal. I am also the weirdo because I don't put sugar on cereal either, when I do eat it.


Cereal is not a long term stock. I gave a hundred boxes to a friend's chickens--rice krispies, cheerios, fruit loops.
An expensive lesson @ $1.49 -$1.69 a box(generic years ago)


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## sewingcreations15

@ClemKadiddlehopper I am stunned that no-one is buying the pork picnics or otherwise known as pork shoulder roasts here in Australia because I would have bought the lot too. Do you think they just don't know how to cook them at all ?, intriguing. You are right that smoked they are delicious and we smoke them in the BBQ and slice the meat for the freezer for stir fries and the like.

Your smoked meat incidentally is a good tradable item too.

Organ meat in most cases is an acquired taste and most who went through the depressions probably vowed and declared they would never let another piece of organ meat pass their lips ever again. Like you however we eat all the organ meat too and not a lot of people realise that those are high in iron such as lambs fry or lambs liver for those people who are anaemic such as myself. Strangely once they are soaked in milk prior to cooking and cut up in a stir fry and served most people would not even know it was organ meat.

I think your strategy is correct is head for less populated areas when and if the SHTF is your best chance of survival. The 10/10 rule applies being if you haven't heard of it is at least 10 miles or kilometres out of town and at least 10 miles or kilometres off a main road. Strategy being that when marauding hoards head out to pilfer they will hit the properties within easy access and in the built up town areas.


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## sewingcreations15

@Danil54 and @weedygarden I would also agree with @JayJay that that commercial cereals are not a long term stocking item. However if you use them in your family and rotate through them and keep a big range of expiry dates that it would be viable for short term that is.


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## sewingcreations15

@crabapple you are correct that fuel is a good item to have stocked and don't forget the fuel preservative in it either everyone. Again it is important that you rotate through your stocks and keep replacing it so you are not caught with stale fuel too.

Going on the fact we live in the country I would also say it is a valuable stocking and tradable item in the country as well as the cities. We are further away from amenities here and we also have a lot of machinery that relies on fuel to plough our gardens, run our chainsaws, go shopping and mow our acreage.

Just putting it out there aged firewood would also be a good tradable item too.

I would say that with the wood and acreage it would be dependant on the area you are in as to what area of land you needed to sustain a family in firewood as @RedBeard has said. Also it depends on the severity of your winter in your area as to what stocks of firewood you would need to sustain you. Some countries and areas have soft wood and therefor you would need more trees to be able to get enough firewood. Here in Australia in our area anyway one 15mt high ironbark hardwood tree (3.5 - 4 cubic metres of firewood) cut and the wood cured for 6 - 12 months does us for a winter. Obviously it would be more than that if we were cooking and heating solely with wood.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper

sewingcreations15 said:


> @ClemKadiddlehopper I am stunned that no-one is buying the pork picnics or otherwise known as pork shoulder roasts here in Australia because I would have bought the lot too. *Do you think they just don't know how to cook them at all *?, intriguing. You are right that smoked they are delicious and we smoke them in the BBQ and slice the meat for the freezer for stir fries and the like.
> 
> Your smoked meat incidentally is a good tradable item too.
> 
> Organ meat in most cases is an acquired taste and most who went through the depressions probably vowed and declared they would never let another piece of organ meat pass their lips ever again. Like you however we eat all the organ meat too and not a lot of people realise that those are high in iron such as lambs fry or lambs liver for those people who are anaemic such as myself. *Strangely once they are soaked in milk prior to cooking *and cut up in a stir fry and served most people would not even know it was organ meat.
> 
> I think your strategy is correct is head for less populated areas when and if the SHTF is your best chance of survival. The 10/10 rule applies being if you haven't heard of it is at least 10 miles or kilometres out of town and at least *10 miles or kilometres off a main road*. Strategy being that when marauding hoards head out to pilfer they will hit the properties within easy access and in the built up town areas.


Part of the problem is that people do not know how to cook, but more importantly, they no longer recognize what they are looking at and how to translate it into food on their plate. Everything comes all sliced up in little packages, not in big funky wet looking chunks. Even ready to bake roasts seasoned with chopped up veggies aren't selling well any more. People haven't been exposed to ovens or have the utensils to utilize the oven. Its take out these days.

There is nothing strange about soaking in milk. Milk is a drawing agent and removes all the stuff that makes organ meat less than ideal both taste wise and toxin wise. I like to soak for three days changing the milk every day. I have 4 Jersey cows so I can use as much as I like without going broke. Tongue is very nice pickled, use anise for a spice, and serve with or without gravy.

10 miles is too close for me. A couple hundred would work for me. Everywhere I go it seems like a subdivision. The world has become small. I like elbow room. I am already 40 miles and its stifling and crowded. I am a dyed in the wool bush baby. I have always wanted to see the Australian out back and see if that was still somewhat empty.


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## sewingcreations15

@ClemKadiddlehopper yes we are bush babies too and prefer to be as far out of town as possible and somewhat unusual as most people don't like the isolation. We are fine however with shopping once every 6 weeks or longer if we can get away with it.

That is sad that most people don't know how to cook or even recognise a roast anymore and have to rely on a labelled package to know that they are eating. All the better and more meat for us for us who know what we are seeing and how to cook it. We have a lot of friends who ask us how do you cook a turnip  and what do you do with it.

We still have a lot of open country here in Australia although it is slowly being gobbled up by subdivisions too. The problem for most people is getting building permission to build on what is classified as rural acreage and not residential smaller acreage. You have to jump through numerous hoops and regulations to be able to do it. There is still a lot of areas with 40 and larger acre bush blocks here too.


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## terri9630

JayJay said:


> Cereal is not a long term stock. I gave a hundred boxes to a friend's chickens--rice krispies, cheerios, fruit loops.
> An expensive lesson @ $1.49 -$1.69 a box(generic years ago)


Take them out of the boxes and bags they come in and vacuum seal it. I use jars and had some 4 year old Froot Loops for breakfast this morning.


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## hiwall

Eating cold cereal is a good way to get many vitamins. The cereals have countless vitamins added.


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## sewingcreations15

Good point @terri9630 about vacuum sealing the cereals and then you could also put them in meal sized portions for preps. Here it wouldn't be a viable option cost wise because our vacuum seal bags cost a fortune to buy though.


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## weedygarden

sewingcreations15 said:


> Good point @weedygarden about vacuum sealing the cereals and then you could also put them in meal sized portions for preps. Here it wouldn't be a viable option cost wise because our vacuum seal bags cost a fortune to buy though.


Not me, Terri!


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## sewingcreations15

oops edited above comment @weedygarden  .


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## Sentry18

I do not store cereal as it has little nutritional value and I follow a keto diet. But even if I was not keto I doubt I would store cereal sans (possibly) nut heavy homemade granola. The grains in boxed cereals are highly processed and the vitamins are all synthetic and not that likely to absorb into the human body. So the only real value of cereal is solely that it provides calories that will convert into glucose in your body. The downside is that glucose will initiate insulin production which will cause spikes in blood sugar resulting in increased appetite and food cravings, not something I would want if food was in short supply unless I was starving at that was my only option. But that is just my two cents.

Vacuum seal bags are not that expensive here @sewingcreations15. I have boxes upon boxes of them, most if which I purchased on clearance or on sale.


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## AmishHeart

I don't mind storing some cereal. I'll buy alot of it when its 1.29 a box....buy 4, get a free gallon of milk with it, and I have coupons. Almost giving it away. I view it has a comfort food for the grandkids. And as Terri pointed out, still good after 4 years. And if you have to buy it anyway for grandkids, might as well buy it when it's cheap. Nothing really goes down in price anymore.


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## backlash

Sentry18 said:


> I do not store cereal as it has little nutritional value and I follow a keto diet. But even if I was not keto I doubt I would store cereal sans (possibly) nut heavy homemade granola. The grains in boxed cereals are highly processed and the vitamins are all synthetic and not that likely to absorb into the human body. So the only real value of cereal is solely that it provides calories that will convert into glucose in your body. The downside is that glucose will initiate insulin production which will cause spikes in blood sugar resulting in increased appetite and food cravings, not something I would want if food was in short supply unless I was starving at that was my only option. But that is just my two cents.
> 
> Vacuum seal bags are not that expensive here @sewingcreations15. I have boxes upon boxes of them, most if which I purchased on clearance or on sale.


Could you check that link to cheap vacuum bags?
I'm not sure sewingcreations15 is really selling them.


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## weedygarden

Caribou said:


> Having had bad luck with vacuum bags, should I ever repackage cereal I'll put it in glass jars and vacuum those.


Much less likely to get rodents and insects in your glass jars as well. They both get into vacuum and mylar bags.


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## terri9630

weedygarden said:


> Much less likely to get rodents and insects in your glass jars as well. They both get into vacuum and mylar bags.


That's why I use jars. We had a heck of a mouse problem 4 or 5 years ago. Jars were the only thing that worked. We even had to put a wide mouth canning ring on the peanut butter jars.


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## AmishHeart

I once had a crazy mouse eat through the bottom of of a heavy plastic bottle of Hershey's Chocolate syrup. Then he ran off and ate a wooden leg off an end table, and then ate a lamp cord in half. I think it made him nuts.


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## obg12

Another thing for the list,rubber gloves they never stock many boxes at the stores so they will be gone quick


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## sewingcreations15

@obg12 that is a really good addition too  . We keep boxes of nitrite gloves here as myself and husband react negatively to rubber gloves.


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## angie_nrs

I'm a bit surprised that canning jars and lids aren't on the list. I also don't see bottled water on the list either....which is crazy b/c during the recent hurricane, I heard the bottled water was cleared off the shelves and people were wondering what they were going to do.....even though they had time to put water in containers in their home before the storm hit. I'm not sure I agree that these items will be the FIRST to disappear. I think convenience foods will be gone long before the rice, flour and powdered milk will be. Sadly, most folks have no idea what they would do with basic food ingredients.....probably starve! I think a lot of things on the list will be the secondary things to disappear.....after the reality of what's happening sinks in, which likely will be days after an event. This is where I think preppers will have a leg up. They'll KNOW S has HTF and they'll be the ones to get in there early and get the last of the good stuff. Heck, they may be the only ones with CASH.

Much of the stuff on the list I already have. I won't be running in to get cash, heavy or bulky items like toilet paper, detergent, alcohol, or paper towels. Can you really have enough TP?? I dunno, but I'm set for a while so I won't be grabbing that. I would want the room in my shopping cart to really count. I have a list in my purse of things at my local grocery store in the order that I would be picking things up throughout the store to maximize my last run and get in and out as quickly as possible. I've also got the cash on hand to back me up in this last run. Maybe I've given this a bit too much thought.

ETA: I went back and re-read more slowly and #62 does state jars and lids. But I didn't see coffee filters, which are much more versatile than for just making coffee.


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## sewingcreations15

@angie_nrs I think that bottled water and water should be first on the list as well.

Good you have thought a lot about it too it is always good to have a plan of attack if need be and I agree that the convenience foods would go first off the shelves rather than the staples as well because most people don't know how to cook either.


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## sewingcreations15

I would also say something that should be included for tradable items are first aid items such as band aids, Panadol, field dressing packs, dressings in general and other medications. Mini sewing kits would also be good as tradable items too along with clothing in general other than warm clothing.


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## SheepdogPRS

Folks, please remember that this experience was from a man who lived through a war. The area was walled in by military forces and cut off from the rest of the area. Anarchy reigned in the area and the military contained it. This wasn't a natural disaster and people were shooting at each other. No supplies were brought in, no power, and people were left to fight and survive on their own. Most of the population was not prepared for anything like this.


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## sewingcreations15

@Caribou fully agree that cost wise water containers are a far cheaper way of storing a lot of water as compared to bottled water too. We have 10lts containers of water in the home with a spigot and also 2200lts of rainwater in tanks.

@SheepdogPRS yes that was the case and all the more reason why we should be stocking in advance in our homes. A situation where no stocks are coming in creates the perfect opportunity for trading if you ran out of certain items and surviving off your own stocked items. In their case it was a case of what supermarket as they simply didn't have that option available to them.

It is food for thought that we all have to think about is what if there isn't a supermarket open, stocked or had been previously pilfered is would we survive and for how long.


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## oldasrocks

Don't forget Preparation H


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## angie_nrs

SheepdogPRS said:


> Folks, please remember that this experience was from a man who lived through a war. The area was walled in by military forces and cut off from the rest of the area. Anarchy reigned in the area and the military contained it. This wasn't a natural disaster and people were shooting at each other. No supplies were brought in, no power, and people were left to fight and survive on their own. Most of the population was not prepared for anything like this.


It would be interesting to see what that list would look like in our "modern era" here in the states. I think when I hear stories like this I automatically try and relate it to my own situation. Many of the same issues would arise. But some things would be a bit different. I think mostly in the fact that I really think our current population is "soft".



sewingcreations15 said:


> A situation where no stocks are coming in creates the perfect opportunity for trading if you ran out of certain items and surviving off your own stocked items. In their case it was a case of what supermarket as they simply didn't have that option available to them.
> 
> It is food for thought that we all have to think about is what if there isn't a supermarket open, stocked or had been previously pilfered is would we survive and for how long.


I often think about that. What if it was too dangerous to get to my local small town market? I have several options planned if that was the case. Even though I live within a few miles of some local businesses, there aren't many so I've thought about ALL my options close to home. If they are all unavailable.....then it is what it is. Hopefully I have my pantry and other supplies stocked good enough. I don't ever get that feeling that I am totally prepared (wish I did), but I do get a small feeling of satisfaction the closer I get to that ultimate and likely unattainable goal. I know all of it can be taken away in an instant, so I try and consider that as well and attempt to plan around it the best I can.


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## sewingcreations15

@angie_nrs to be perfectly honest I don't think any of us think we are 100% self sufficient or stocked with preps  . All of us can only do the best we can given our own circumstances. I have a massive prepping and food list in my brain that I work on step by step and being that we are both lower income (on pensions due to DH's huge injuries) and we are saving for a home being built it is just a bit more challenging than most would find it.


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## AmishHeart

I know none of us are 100 percent prepared or 100 percent self reliant. BUT the majority of people are 0 percent prepared and self reliant. We are in a better place than most. Just do what we can and it's so much more than nothing.


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## gabbyj310

Since I travel alot I always grab the little shampoos,etc in the hotel rooms.I have alot stored.I bag up the tooth paste,small soaps shampoos etc in baggies for barter when the SHTF. Same with the little coffee and tea,sugar and creamers...I also have a small solar generator.The extras(sugar,mayo,catsup) at any of the fast food places are also a good addition


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## sewingcreations15

@AmishHeart you are so right that we are all in a far better preparation mode than most of the population too and the main thing is we have a plan that works.


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## sewingcreations15

They are also a good prepping item the saved coffee, sugar and creamers as well as the sauces too and the toiletries @gabbyj310  . Something else we can all add to our prepping items that would come in handy.


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## RedBeard

I don't know, me and my family are pretty darn self sufficient. The world ends today and im not worried about much. We prep every day so we can make it to the next harvest. It cost us less money to live and when crap shuts down we are hardly affected. Im not saying we are 100 percent but when the time comes it won't be hard to be 100 percent.


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## sewingcreations15

@RedBeard that is the right place for your family to be and we also prep every day and preserve our garden vegetables until we can grow them again too. Thoroughly agree that growing your own vegetables saves a fortune as well.

We don't notice it a lot when power of other facilities don't work or close down either in fact the other night we had a power blackout for about 2 hours and the only reason we knew it was a blackout was that the street lights went out because we use solar lanterns in our home  .


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## RedBeard

sewingcreations15 said:


> @RedBeard that is the right place for your family to be and we also prep every day and preserve our garden vegetables until we can grow them again too. Thoroughly agree that growing your own vegetables saves a fortune as well.
> 
> We don't notice it a lot when power of other facilities don't work or close down either in fact the other night we had a power blackout for about 2 hours and the only reason we knew it was a blackout was that the street lights went out because we use solar lanterns in our home  .


Takes all the stress out of it when you live like us. I have always followed the Amish,Quakers, and the Shakers. They live full, beautiful, simple, yet productive lives. That's why i always laugh when people try and tell me that a convenience is a necessity. People of today have it all backwards.


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## SheepdogPRS

Some of the conveniences we have today are necessities for some people. Electricity for refrigeration and fast transportation are all that keep diabetics and dialysis patients alive. A lot of our infrastructure supports medical care that keeps people alive.


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## weedygarden

When it comes to storing water in larger containers, it needs to be easily accessible. Pouring water even from a 7 gallon container every time someone wants a drink or needs some for cooking is not easy. There are a few options.

I have gotten some 5 gallon dispenser type bottles free on Craigslist. I have also gotten two different dispensers for those bottles, one that dispenses hot and cold water, another that is a ceramic counter top dispenser.

I do have water in several other type of containers including the 7 gallon jugs, former juice containers, and in canning jars. I could envision a time when everyone has a quart canning jar or juice jar as their ration of water for a period of time. Glass breaks, plastic can have chemicals, and then there is an aluminum can, which is a one time use for drinking.

While the list does include canning jars, I think that all canning jars that we have should contain something in storage, and if we don't have anything to can, then they could have water.


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## angie_nrs

weedygarden said:


> When it comes to storing water in larger containers, it needs to easily accessible. Pouring water even from a 7 gallon container every time someone wants a drink or needs some for cooking is not easy. There are a few options.


Actually there are quite a few options, but most people don't think of that being a problem. I have a few of the 7 gal dark blue water jugs from WM that have the spigot on them. They are the really thick plastic and they are a bit more expensive, but so much more versatile than the regular light blue (camping type) water jugs that are used to put water into an RV. I would use the jugs with spigots at hand cleaning stations. People that went thru the hurricane used them in their bathrooms with the spigot over the sink so they could wash their hands after doing their business, wasting as little water as possible. Plus they didn't need to have someone help them by pouring water over their hands. It's just way more convenient to have something like that available if the power goes out.

For drinking I would use my 5 gallon water gott (like high schools use in football games), which has the spigot on the bottom. We use this when we go camping for coffee and drinking water. I also have the gallon glass iced tea containers with the spigot on the bottom. In addition you can also purchase a hand pump to use with the round 5 gallon culligan-type water containers. You just screw off the lid and put the pump in and you're ready to go. Those you can purchase at WM too and they are pretty inexpensive.

I'm like Si on Duck Dynasty (can't believe I said that - lol). I carry around a 1 quart rubbermaid jug and drink water from it all day long. I drink 2-3 of those per day. I'll probably do this until the day I'm dead, since I've been doing it for probably 15 years or more now.


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## bugoutbob

Typically the first thing to disappear in any emergency is a politician. Once it's safe they will come back and try to use it to their own political/financial advantage.


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## RedBeard

SheepdogPRS said:


> Some of the conveniences we have today are necessities for some people. Electricity for refrigeration and fast transportation are all that keep diabetics and dialysis patients alive. A lot of our infrastructure supports medical care that keeps people alive.


Very good point, didn't think of that. I am very thankful that's not an issue in my family. Good point indeed.


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## sewingcreations15

@weedygarden I agree with @angie_nrs on alternative water containers too but unfortunately living in a different area to you I don't know what the alternatives are available to you.

Here for water containers we have purchased 10lt bottled water containers from Aldi for $3.99 that come with a dispenser similar to a large wine cask that you can operate by pushing on a lever and putting your glass underneath to fill your glass. When the town water stops working here we put a little water in the vanity basin from this and wash our hands in it and if we do something particularly dirty then we rinse with a little bit of water from the container.

We carry one full one in the car with us refilled with town water and have numerous ones we have refilled around the house too. When we go out we carry personal drinking bottles also with carbon filters in them called bobble bottles which carry around 600ml of water in them too and can be attached to your jeans belt by a carabiner clip.


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## sewingcreations15

@SheepdogPRS you are also right about things like electricity being vital to those who in the situation of high medical care too.

Rolling at your statement @bugoutbob and I believe some played golf  not mentioning any names, others in emergency services heading crisis situations went home to bed and said they didn't want to be disturbed and the list goes on.


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## Flight1630

SheepdogPRS said:


> Some of the conveniences we have today are necessities for some people. Electricity for refrigeration and fast transportation are all that keep diabetics and dialysis patients alive. A lot of our infrastructure supports medical care that keeps people alive.


And unfortunately if the power ever goes out for a lengthy time meaning after the emergency generators stop working, if not all then most of those people will probably pass away.


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## bugoutbob

Flight1630 said:


> And unfortunately if the power ever goes out for a lengthy time meaning after the emergency generators stop working, if not all then most of those people will probably pass away.


The number of people being kept alive (and/or sane) through the miracles of modern medicine who will pass away or go off the deep end will be astounding and tragic. If you run through a quick list of people you know who are being kept alive or have some form of life quality because of technology and medication it can be sobering.


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## Flight1630

bugoutbob said:


> The number of people being kept alive (and/or sane) through the miracles of modern medicine who will pass away or go off the deep end will be astounding and tragic. If you run through a quick list of people you know who are being kept alive or have some form of life quality because of technology and medication it can be sobering.


I don't know anyone on a 
Machine but I know lots of people on medicin.


----------



## RedBeard

bugoutbob said:


> The number of people being kept alive (and/or sane) through the miracles of modern medicine who will pass away or go off the deep end will be astounding and tragic. If you run through a quick list of people you know who are being kept alive or have some form of life quality because of technology and medication it can be sobering.


I maybe know 3 and they wouldn't die but they would go nuts. Not to sound cruel but we humans are over populating this planet. Mother nature dictates that the weak die. We through technology have stopped mother nature's design and there is way too many of us because of it. We are the only species on this planet that doesn't have population control.


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## bugoutbob

Flight1630 said:


> I don't know anyone on a
> Machine but I know lots of people on medicin.


There might be more on machines that you know that you don't think about ... CPAP, defibrillator, pacemakers and more are quite common. But even just the lack of available medication could prove disastrous.

I know that medications are often over prescribed, wrongly prescribed and abused, and my loathing for big pharmaceutical is up there with governments, banks, oil companies, insurance companies and other forms of organized crime but I am thankful for medication.

I am a closed head injury survivor, with more concussions than many high risk pro athletes. I have been on meds since the early 1990's and also use a CPAP machine. If there was no more meds and no electricity I wouldn't die from it but I can promise a drastically reduced quality of life for me and for those around me.


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## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> Mother nature dictates that the weak die..


It is interesting to me that many people whose deny the existence of a loving God often look to Mother Nature who seems to be a bit of a bitch. Having said that, for the sake of discussion let's accept your statement as being true.

Having worked with and having cared for people who are weak, disabled and dying I can promise you that is a much easier statement to make in the abstract and hypothetical. It's easy to write someone you don't know and have never met to death than someone who is near and dear to you.

Despite all their flaws, despite the weaknesses, despite the abuses, the fact that humans (at least some humans, history and current events show that it's not all humans) care enough to try and keep others alive and raise their standard of living to be a virtue.

I don't think the problem is as much overpopulation but that of greed and corruption. There are plenty of resources and food to go around for everyone. That can change at any time and the population will soon be reduced to levels that are sustainable for those circumstances.it will be a tragedy that makes the various killing fields of the 20th seem like the good old days,


----------



## sewingcreations15

I also know 2 close friends who rely on CPAP machines to stay alive as well and now with the addition of 3 more from here as well. My husband also has the need for medications due to a military accident where he sustained significant injuries in.

So those of us on medications let's turn this around and ask how can you stockpile your medications so you have a good supply  and I might add this is not an option in some cases where medications have to be refrigerated or have an extremely short lifespan for instance.

Here is some of the things we do to stockpile medications -
- If my husband does not need the prescribed dose for the day he takes less and we can stockpile medications in that way.
- Find a doctor that may be sympathetic or one who is a fellow prepper who would allow you to stockpile medications. Here in Australia we can only stockpile a months supply of prescription medication but due to my husbands condition he can be prescribed a higher dosage as his needs are dependant on daily pain levels. This is a way in which we can stockpile more medications than just a months worth.
- Research ways in which natural herbs, foods and tinctures may replace some of your medications under of course medical supervision and advice. For instance we use Arnica cream for my husbands back pain instead of pain medications which allows him to take less.

Over to all of you for some more ideas here  .


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## sewingcreations15

I am also going to add in here additional preps suggested to store are -
- OTC (over the counter) medications.
- Your particular medications if that is possible.
- Any supplements you may need in my case iron tablets or minerals eg calcium tablets.
- Growing alternatives such as herbs in your gardens that your could use to replace some of your medications. Also drying herbs and keeping a stock of them too.
- Essential oils - as a lot can be used to treat multiple ailments.


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## bugoutbob

One of my doctors keeps me supplied to a certain degree with samples of one of my meds on top of giving me my script. He does that because the pharmacy doesn’t typically keep enough in stock, so he gives me a buffer. He knows I tend towards prepping but that gives him an excuse he can live with (I think). I have managed that way to squirrel away an extra 3-4 months. Most of the rest are generic now so no samples of them. When I am having a couple of “good” days I try to skip a dose and save it. Can’t skip many but it gives me some moderate amount of stockpile. Haven’t found a prep friendly doctor.


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## RedBeard

bugoutbob said:


> It is interesting to me that many people whose deny the existence of a loving God often look to Mother Nature who seems to be a bit of a *****. Having said that, for the sake of discussion let's accept your statement as being true.
> 
> Having worked with and having cared for people who are weak, disabled and dying I can promise you that is a much easier statement to make in the abstract and hypothetical. It's easy to write someone you don't know and have never met to death than someone who is near and dear to you.
> 
> Despite all their flaws, despite the weaknesses, despite the abuses, the fact that humans (at least some humans, history and current events show that it's not all humans) care enough to try and keep others alive and raise their standard of living to be a virtue.
> 
> I don't think the problem is as much overpopulation but that of greed and corruption. There are plenty of resources and food to go around for everyone. That can change at any time and the population will soon be reduced to levels that are sustainable for those circumstances.it will be a tragedy that makes the various killing fields of the 20th seem like the good old days,


Oh we are way over populating the planet. In fact to produce enough food we are destroying it as well. If something doesn't change soon we will be in trouble. Now mother nature may be a ***** but she is also being denied her population control on humans. Let me say this again every animal on this earth has a managed population, except ours. That's one of the stupidest things we do or rather don't do. Ya i don't believe in god, so what? What does that have to do with believing in nature? Yes i believe in nature because it is real and i see it every single day.


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## sewingcreations15

@bugoutbob good on you for stockpiling extra medicines too it all comes in handy.


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## AmishHeart

Husband uses a bipap. He uses oxygen at night. To power his stuff off grid, we use a battery and an inverter. It works well. My cousins use car batteries all the time. They have a solar panel charging area and charge a number of them continuously.


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## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> . Ya i don't believe in god, so what? What does that have to do with believing in nature? Yes i believe in nature because it is real and i see it every single day.


 It wasn't intended as a criticism, simply an observation. Many who believe in "nature" seem to attribute divine attributes to her. I simply find that interesting as well as confusing.


----------



## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> Oh we are way over populating the planet.


What is your basis for this claim. What is a "sustainable" population. How did you derive these figures? Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your perspective.


----------



## angie_nrs

sewingcreations15 said:


> Hi all and I thought I would post this article for the point of discussion and for all of us to think of things we may not have and to update our preps as our budget allows  .
> 
> Now lets see if I can do a quote properly  . Okay I know not, so will copy and paste underneath the link.
> 
> Here is the link - http://www.all-about-preparedness.com/p/store.html
> 
> *100 Items to Disappear First*
> 
> 1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
> 2. Water Filters/Purifiers
> 3. Portable Toilets
> 4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
> 5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
> 6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
> 7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
> 8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
> 9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
> 10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
> 11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
> 12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
> 13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
> 14. Mini Heater head (Propane) (Without this item, propane won't heat a room.)
> 15. Grain Grinder (Non-electric)
> 16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.
> 17. Survival Guide Book.
> 18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
> 19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
> 20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
> 21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
> 22. Vitamins
> 23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
> 24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
> 25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
> 26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
> 27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
> 28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
> 29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
> 30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
> 31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
> 32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
> 33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
> 34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
> 35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
> 36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
> 37. First aid kits
> 38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
> 39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
> 40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
> 41. Flour, yeast & salt
> 42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
> 43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
> 44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
> 45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
> 46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
> 47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
> 48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
> 49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
> 50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
> 51. Fishing supplies/tools
> 52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
> 53. Duct Tape
> 54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
> 55. Candles
> 56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
> 57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
> 58. Garden tools & supplies
> 59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
> 60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
> 61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
> 62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
> 63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
> 64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
> 65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
> 66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
> 67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
> 68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
> 69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
> 70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
> 71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
> 72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
> 73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
> 74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
> 75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
> 76. Reading glasses
> 77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
> 78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
> 79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
> 80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
> 81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
> 82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
> 83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
> 84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
> 85. Lumber (all types)
> 86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
> 87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
> 88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
> 89. Lantern Hangers
> 90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
> 91. Teas
> 92. Coffee
> 93. Cigarettes
> 94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
> 95. Paraffin wax
> 96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
> 97. Chewing gum/candies
> 98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
> 99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
> 100. Goats/chickens
> 
> From a Sarajevo War Survivor:
> Experiencing horrible things that can happen in a war - death of parents and
> friends, hunger and malnutrition, endless freezing cold, fear, sniper attacks.
> 
> 1. Stockpiling helps. but you never no how long trouble will last, so locate
> near renewable food sources.
> 2. Living near a well with a manual pump is like being in Eden.
> 3. After awhile, even gold can lose its luster. But there is no luxury in war
> quite like toilet paper. Its surplus value is greater than gold's.
> 4. If you had to go without one utility, lose electricity - it's the easiest to
> do without (unless you're in a very nice climate with no need for heat.)
> 5. Canned foods are awesome, especially if their contents are tasty without
> heating. One of the best things to stockpile is canned gravy - it makes a lot of
> the dry unappetizing things you find to eat in war somewhat edible. Only needs
> enough heat to "warm", not to cook. It's cheap too, especially if you buy it in
> bulk.
> 6. Bring some books - escapist ones like romance or mysteries become more
> valuable as the war continues. Sure, it's great to have a lot of survival
> guides, but you'll figure most of that out on your own anyway - trust me, you'll
> have a lot of time on your hands.
> 7. The feeling that you're human can fade pretty fast. I can't tell you how many
> people I knew who would have traded a much needed meal for just a little bit of
> toothpaste, rouge, soap or cologne. Not much point in fighting if you have to
> lose your humanity. These things are morale-builders like nothing else.
> 8. Slow burning candles and matches, matches, matches
> 
> 100 Top Items Disappearing in War or Natural Disaster
> 
> Happy prepping.
> 
> Sewingcreations15.


In the back of my mind I was thinking I had seen this list before. While organizing my bookshelf today I glanced thru my 2012 LDS manual.....and on page 404 there is was. It's interesting that in the LDS manual, I don't see where they credited the list to anyone who had lived through an event, but maybe I didn't read close enough as I was just flipping thru it, but I know that #62 was the jars and lids I had mentioned earlier in the thread. I don't really know how old this list is, but (at the very least) it's before 2012 if anyone is interested.


----------



## RedBeard

How much juice does a cpap need?


bugoutbob said:


> It wasn't intended as a criticism, simply an observation. Many who believe in "nature" seem to attribute divine attributes to her. I simply find that interesting as well as confusing.


I just say mother nature. More if a term of endearment for all that is nature.


----------



## RedBeard

bugoutbob said:


> What is your basis for this claim. What is a "sustainable" population. How did you derive these figures? Not trying to be combative, just trying to understand your perspective.


No idea on sustainable population. My perspective comes from a study national geographic did. The did 8 issues on our food supply either last year or the year before. At our current growth rate and to sustain us with food come 2050 we are going to be out of usable land for growing food. We will be at the beginning of a downhill slide. 90 percent of the food grown for the worlds consumption is factory farming. Factory farming pollutes and ruins the land, but is the only way to feed all the people we have. The destruction can be changed but we still have the problem of not having enough. 7.6 billion on our planet now and not everyone get a meal at night. 2050 9.8 billion thats over 2 billion in less then 40 years. In 1927 there was only 2 billion people. 7.6 now and it feels overcrowded add 2 billion more and and it will be nuts. Heck 2100 it will be over 11 billion, why would anyone want that many people here? Keep breeding and eventually we will run out of stuff. Human population control is not only smart but it is the responsible thing to do. Any system can only handle so many of any one species that has been proven time and time again in nature.


----------



## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> How much juice does a cpap need?
> 
> I just say mother nature. More if a term of endearment for all that is nature.


With an adapter I can run mine on a 12 volt system. I have one for when I am camping.

Okay, thanks that's helpful. I do know many who worship nature as a god(dess) so I was curious


----------



## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> No idea on sustainable population. My perspective comes from a study national geographic did. The did 8 issues on our food supply either last year or the year before. At our current growth rate and to sustain us with food come 2050 we are going to be out of usable land for growing food. We will be at the beginning of a downhill slide. 90 percent of the food grown for the worlds consumption is factory farming. Factory farming pollutes and ruins the land, but is the only way to feed all the people we have. The destruction can be changed but we still have the problem of not having enough. 7.6 billion on our planet now and not everyone get a meal at night. 2050 9.8 billion thats over 2 billion in less then 40 years. In 1927 there was only 2 billion people. 7.6 now and it feels overcrowded add 2 billion more and and it will be nuts. Heck 2100 it will be over 11 billion, why would anyone want that many people here? Keep breeding and eventually we will run out of stuff. Human population control is not only smart but it is the responsible thing to do. Any system can only handle so many of any one species that has been proven time and time again in nature.


Okay, that helps me understand a bit. So how do you suggest we manage (if I can use that term) human population? How do we reduce it. Who determines the criterion? What should those criteria be? How long will it take to implement and manage the required controls?

Not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to follow your logic through.

From our discussions in other posts I presume you know that I am a Christian. I am not saying my position is better than yours, just acknowledging that they are different. Not all positions can be correct but each person is entitled to (and I believe accountable for) there position in the end.

Part of being a Christian means, for me, that every person is created in the image of God (although there is no denying it is often very difficult to see). That means that I believe in the intrinsic value and sanctity of human life. I understand there are times when life must be taken for a variety of reasons but still see the value of each life.

I have never had to kill someone, although I did serve in the military, and to the best of the ability of someone who has never been in such a situation made the decision to do so if need be. Over the years I have talked with military personnel, mercenaries, police officers, felons and doctors who have taken the life of another. All were changed by the experience and not for the better.

Are you suggesting we kill a percentage of the population or have forced birth control? How do we bring an exploding population to some sustainable number, which( neither of us knows, but we can assume for discussion that such a number can be determined).

How did the writers of National Geographic propose solving it in their multipart series (which obviously I have not read)?

Maybe you haven't thought it through as most of us are prone to fail to do with a position. Maybe you have some thoughts. Just curious.

I prefer such conversations over a coffee or kitchen table because in a forum such as this it is easy to misunderstand or be misunderstood, but we don't have that luxury.


----------



## bugoutbob

Something I didn’t see on the list is good old fashioned razor blades, you know the double sided safety razor. Every BOB should have a pack. They are cheap and lightweight. Not only can they be used to shave with, they make excellent scalpels for minor surgeries, and are handy for cutting a myriad of things. They are available online, last forever and imho shave way better than all the fancy multibladed systems (most of which I tried). Of course having some handles to go with them is a bonus. I have broken them in half or taped one side and shaved without a handle, not a great practice if it can be avoided.


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## bugoutbob

Caribou said:


> Here are some things you can do to reduce the population.
> On demand abortions.
> Forced abortions after the first child including spiking the cranium when the baby crowns. (China)
> Foment civil war by stirring up factions of society.
> Push religious factions to kill members of different belief systems.
> Collapse the economy so people starve.
> Allow criminals to wander un-prosecuted or released from jail. (barry)
> I'm sure there are more but these are a few current efforts that come to mind.


Caribou, I hear what you are saying but it isn't helpful at this juncture. Sometimes the best tool of discussion is to allow the other party to explain their position and to walk through the logical ramifications of it. I know for myself that having to do that will do one of two things typically. It makes me examine my convictions and strengthens me in them, enabling me to better articulate them in the future. Or in examine the ramifications I realize that I need to rethink my position.

I am trying to understand his position as he sees it, not assume that i know it. Whether he and I ever come to agreement we can both benefit from the process.

As I said not all perspectives can be true but people are entitled to and responsible for what they believe. Over the years I have found that such discussions have been beneficial.


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## sewingcreations15

@bugoutbob yes double sided razors are indeed a good item to add to your preps so we will add that too.


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## RedBeard

bugoutbob said:


> Okay, that helps me understand a bit. So how do you suggest we manage (if I can use that term) human population? How do we reduce it. Who determines the criterion? What should those criteria be? How long will it take to implement and manage the required controls?
> 
> Not trying to put you on the spot, just trying to follow your logic through.
> 
> From our discussions in other posts I presume you know that I am a Christian. I am not saying my position is better than yours, just acknowledging that they are different. Not all positions can be correct but each person is entitled to (and I believe accountable for) there position in the end.
> 
> Part of being a Christian means, for me, that every person is created in the image of God (although there is no denying it is often very difficult to see). That means that I believe in the intrinsic value and sanctity of human life. I understand there are times when life must be taken for a variety of reasons but still see the value of each life.
> 
> I have never had to kill someone, although I did serve in the military, and to the best of the ability of someone who has never been in such a situation made the decision to do so if need be. Over the years I have talked with military personnel, mercenaries, police officers, felons and doctors who have taken the life of another. All were changed by the experience and not for the better.
> 
> Are you suggesting we kill a percentage of the population or have forced birth control? How do we bring an exploding population to some sustainable number, which( neither of us knows, but we can assume for discussion that such a number can be determined).
> 
> How did the writers of National Geographic propose solving it in their multipart series (which obviously I have not read)?
> 
> Maybe you haven't thought it through as most of us are prone to fail to do with a position. Maybe you have some thoughts. Just curious.
> 
> I prefer such conversations over a coffee or kitchen table because in a forum such as this it is easy to misunderstand or be misunderstood, but we don't have that luxury.


Nat geo actually says bugs. They are almost all protein and require very little space to grow. They believe very strongly that bugs are a viable way to sustain food for such a large population. Now i do value human life, and every other animal on this planet. The only thing i have come up with is to limit the amount of kids born. But how to do it in a way that is fair, i don't know. I have thought maybe limit people to 2 kids. After 2 kids no stabbing the 3rd in the head just make the father have a vasectomy witch is reversible incase need be. Im not proposing a kill off either. Im not Hitler here. I don't think anything done to control population growth will be received well. I do think people who are a lot smarter than i should figure some crap out and do it soon. There is nothing healthy instore for humans or this planet when our numbers get to high. This is always a hard subject for people to think about but one that we should have talked about a long time ago. I don't know what we should do i just know we need to do something. I wonder if the bible talks about over population? I have always thought that maybe the biblical apocalypse is more about bringing the population back down to sustainable numbers. Now all that said im pretty darn sure i don't want todays government in control of that either. God aside any ecosystem can be over populated and sickness is usually the first response given from nature to balance the system. So either we control our system or it will fight back and we will loose many lives when it does. @sewingcreations15 bob and i jumped track on your thread, sorry!


----------



## bugoutbob

RedBeard said:


> Nat geo actually says bugs. They are almost all protein and require very little space to grow. They believe very strongly that bugs are a viable way to sustain food for such a large population. Now i do value human life, and every other animal on this planet. The only thing i have come up with is to limit the amount of kids born. But how to do it in a way that is fair, i don't know. I have thought maybe limit people to 2 kids. After 2 kids no stabbing the 3rd in the head just make the father have a vasectomy witch is reversible incase need be. Im not proposing a kill off either. Im not Hitler here. I don't think anything done to control population growth will be received well. I do think people who are a lot smarter than i should figure some crap out and do it soon. There is nothing healthy instore for humans or this planet when our numbers get to high. This is always a hard subject for people to think about but one that we should have talked about a long time ago. I don't know what we should do i just know we need to do something. I wonder if the bible talks about over population? I have always thought that maybe the biblical apocalypse is more about bringing the population back down to sustainable numbers. Now all that said im pretty darn sure i don't want todays government in control of that either. God aside any ecosystem can be over populated and sickness is usually the first response given from nature to balance the system. So either we control our system or it will fight back and we will loose many lives when it does. @sewingcreations15 bob and i jumped track on your thread, sorry!


Thanks for the thoughts, just helps me in future dialogue to hear your perspective rather than assume it.

@sewingcreations15 I second the apologies for derailing the thread. We'll get back on track


----------



## bugoutbob

Caribou said:


> Sorry to butt into your discussion but I do see those points as a part of current population control. Population control is part of Agenda 21.


Without question. I wasn't disagreeing at all, I just wanted to hear his take on things.


----------



## backlash

I think there will be a wide spread pandemic in the near future.
People can travel anywhere in the world in 2 or 3 days and if they are sick they will spread diseases around.
The current outbreak of the Marburg Virus is an example.
It can be up to 88% fatal.
I think Mother Nature will ultimately control our out of control population.
That is unless it's not Mother Nature, and it's some sinister New World Order plot.
Tinfoil hat off.


----------



## RedBeard

Caribou said:


> Me too, I wasn't trying to quiet anyone.


Can a mod pull our post on it and start a new thread? Im interested in more opinions. Just a thought not trying to increase anyones work load.


----------



## sewingcreations15

Worthwhile discussing this subject here as it leads into items to stockpile that deal with pandemics and diseases as well I think. So what preps does everyone recommend for pandemics in their stockpiles ?. N95 masks come to mind ( I believe they have developed better ones too lately) and thieves oil is another used during the black plague too.

Thank you @bugoutbob and @RedBeard for the apology too.

I will weigh in on the subject that I think when anyone's number is up in the great lottery of life your time is over and medical intervention can only help to a certain degree because viruses and bacteria will mutate and create new strains to become resistant to most modern medicine eventually. Also I am a Christian as well, and believe all lives are sacred and we are created in the image of god and as an ex nurse our code of conduct (if I may call it that) was such that we were to maintain the best quality of life for someone that we could. Regardless of whether you are religious or not maintaining the best quality of life for each person is paramount. How any future government legislation handles population control is that it maybe similar to the one child policy in China perhaps without the spiking of children but substituting mandatory birth control measures ???.

@backlash also agree with you on the fact that pandemics in the past have somewhat controlled (natural selection if you like to call it that) or reduced the population as well. Recent ones being the Ebola virus, Bird flu, more recently Influenza A has now beaten the latest flu vaccination and a number of seemingly healthy people have succumb to that and add to that hurricanes and tornadoes. If you look at more anciently the black death or plague (found recently in one country), famine, pestilence, droughts and floods.


----------



## DrPrepper

Caribou said:


> Things to stockpile, besides N95 masks, might include nitrile or latex gloves, soap, disposable shoe covers and Tyvek coveralls. Cleanliness and especially hand washing will be paramount. Maintaining a distance from others will help.


In addition to N-95 masks (which are good for things that are transmitted via the airborne route, regular procedure masks are good for things like the flu that is transmitted via the droplet route. I also stock hand sanitizer (I get it at Sam's Club in the half gallon bottles). Don't forget bleach and other surface sanitizers (I use Oxivir TB wipes- a hydrogen peroxide cleaner that kills almost everything and only has a 2 minute dry time, available on Amazon). The best prevention for pandemic is self-quarantine- staying away from anyone and not going anywhere that you could pick up the pandemic pathogen. Meticulous hand hygiene, keeping self and environment clean, and maintaining good health/ good nutrition are also important. Lastly, I strongly recommend getting a flu shot every year. Even though last year's shot was only 43% effective against Flu A and 73% effective against Flu B, it is better than nothing and does help your immune system resist the flu. I suspect if anything does go pandemic, it will be a version of the flu. Right now there are a number of flu strains that are mutating and have jumped the gap from animals to people.


----------



## sewingcreations15

Thank you @Caribou for your recommendation of stocking gloves, soap, shoe covers and clothing covers too and they are valuable additions.

Good point @DrPrepper too on the ordinary theatre masks, hydrogen peroxide cleaner, flu injection, good hygiene and quarantining and keeping away from others who are sick and quarantining your self too if you are sick.

Are you able to tell me what percentage hydrogen peroxide is in the Oxivir cleaner ?, just interested as we can get varying strengths of hydrogen peroxide here and want to know the best to use. Amazon only has very few items they ship to Australia (often hugely expensive postage costs too) so I often source alternatives.


----------



## VoorTrekker

backlash said:


> ...I think there will be a wide spread pandemic in the near future.
> People can travel anywhere in the world in 2 or 3 days and if they are sick they will spread diseases around.
> The current outbreak of the Marburg Virus is an example.
> It can be up to 88% fatal...


Television series "Survivors" 1974, "Survivors" 2006, "The Last Ship" 2014.
Films, "Outbreak" "Contagion" and a bunch more.


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