# Gold and Silver investments?



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

My 85 year old Mother's health is not too good.

With inflation and low returns on safe investments she's loosing about 1/2 to 1% a year.

Dad saved enough to leave mom comfortable (not rich) and zero debts.

Sister is has always been susceptible to get rich quick schemes. She wants to invest it all of mom's savings in Gold and Silver. I'm not sure if sister is concerned about mom's purchasing power slightly declining each year or sister's future inheritance declining.

Gold is at a high.

Silver 10 year average is about $20 a ounce. Low $6, high $49, present around $20.

My thinking is you want to buy low not high. Buy a house when the market is bust not booming.

I'm against investing in gold when it's high. Silver, perhaps when it's down around $10 and then sale when it's back up to $20.

I'm also against investing all of mom's savings into what I would call a speculative guess. Is gold going to continue to climb or is the bubble going to burst like the hi-tech stock and the housing market did?

Thought about letting mom invest 1/2 of her savings (the part that would be the sister's future inheritance). If the investment turns sour, sister loses her inheritance and mom would have to cut back a bit. If the investment turns out good then good for the Sister!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I would never advise that anyone put all their eggs in one basket. If you think that the dollar is going to collapse next month that is one thing. 

What are gold and silver prices going to be next year? If I could reliably tell what PM prices were going to be an hour from now I'd be on my own island somewhere. PM's are for a hedge. Buy on the dips and hold or buy a little every month and hold. To buy low and sell high is for someone with a lot more knowledge of the market than I.

There is too little information to give you any advice but here are a couple things to consider. How good is her insurance? How much does it cost her to live every month? How much does she bring in every month? Have you planned for the unexpected? If the plan is to sell the PM's later to pay Mom's living expenses that could either win or loose.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Gold and silver are increasing against the dollar as the dollar declines. It's not a case of buy low/sell high. It's a case of doing the best you can to preserve your mother's money. I would put it all in gold and silver too. No stocks, no bonds, no money market accounts, no large stockpile of cash. I would put it all in metals. It's the only safe place.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

I put as much as I can into PM's whenever possible. The dollar is on such thin ice...

I think that PM's are being manipulated and once the banksters are done with whatever it is they are trying to do, or if they simply run out of room to leverage anything any further, PM's are going to skyrocket, likely at the expense of the market and the value of the FRN/USD. 

I was buying silver at $33 and I dont consider that money lost at all, I'm sure I'll see that price again and more! 

That reminds me, I should keep stacking and buy some more this week.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

> Sister is has always been susceptible to get rich quick schemes. She wants to invest it all of mom's savings in Gold and Silver. I'm not sure if sister is concerned about mom's purchasing power slightly declining each year or sister's future inheritance declining.


Sounds like your sister is planning ahead and figuring out the easiest way to get her hands on your Mom's savings.
Easier to cart off gold and silver than to cash out savings plans.
Inheritance=the ultimate get rich scheme.
I could be wrong but it sounds suspect.

If I was 85 I would not buy PM.
I would have to pay a commission to buy and then again when I sell.
I figure I wouldn't live long enough to make it worth while.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Dakine said:


> I think that PM's are being manipulated and once the banksters are done with whatever it is they are trying to do, or if they simply run out of room to leverage anything any further, PM's are going to skyrocket, likely at the expense of the market and the value of the FRN/USD.


People have been saying that for a long time. It could be true or not.

If I had put my money in metals in 2008 I would have the same amount of metals today. Since I put it into other investments, I have purchased that same amount of metals and still have more invested outside of metals than I did then.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

labotomi said:


> People have been saying that for a long time. It could be true or not.
> 
> If I had put my money in metals in 2008 I would have the same amount of metals today. Since I put it into other investments, I have purchased that same amount of metals and still have more invested outside of metals than I did then.


Ok sure but 2008 wasn't the market a lot lower? The subprime bubble collapse beat the crap out of Wall St right? If you invest, even in just index funds while everything is at a low, you're going to do really well when it comes back.

Plus the market is fat on fake cash, QE right? Taper didnt work... and what tools do they have left? default?

I guess as long as the Market exists at all, and you are careful with your investments or if you choose index funds you'll be okay?

I still like money I can see and touch.

Still though, I understand the point you're making, "people" have been saying a collapse is coming, the end is nigh! for a long long time... so why should tomorrow be any different.

Also I guess it depends on what you invested in and when you bought the metals, just a real quick search on "price of silver and gold in 2008" I got this link. http://silver-and-gold-prices.goldprice.org/2008_10_01_archive.html

Silver was $9
Gold was $737 
Dollar Index 84.82

Today it's $1289 and $19 and 79.95

All of those seem really bad to me for the market compared to phyz...


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Dakine said:


> Ok sure but 2008 wasn't the market a lot lower? The subprime bubble collapse beat the crap out of Wall St right? If you invest, even in just index funds while everything is at a low, you're going to do really well when it comes back.


I should have said "left my money in the market". I had already lost during the decline. Regardless, both gold and stocks were low and both have gained.



Dakine said:


> Plus the market is fat on fake cash, QE right? Taper didnt work... and what tools do they have left? default?
> 
> Still though, I understand the point you're making, "people" have been saying a collapse is coming, the end is nigh! for a long long time... so why should tomorrow be any different.
> 
> ...


Of course I could lose all my investments if some sort of financial armageddon happened, but I still have more gold and silver than I would have if I'd just put the money into it back then.

The dollar index isn't the market. If you take the S&P 500 which is a decent index, it was around $900 close to the end of 2008 and is now over $1800.

I've seen a lot of people get passed by because they were convinced of this or that and refused to diversify. I don't like when people give investing advice in absolute terms.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

labotomi said:


> I should have said "left my money in the market". I had already lost during the decline. Regardless, both gold and stocks were low and both have gained.
> 
> Of course I could lose all my investments if some sort of financial armageddon happened, but I still have more gold and silver than I would have if I'd just put the money into it back then.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I know I lost a lot too. could'a should'a would'a right? It bounced back and I pulled some out to buy tangible things.

I didnt mean to imply the dollar index was the market if you read it that way, I was just speaking to yet another thing in the overall big picture that makes me leery of trusting banks, investments and risk opportunities.

I still put money into stocks and funds, it would be foolish not to. It's pre-tax dollars with 401k and I would like to watch that closer but I get busy with work and life, the index funds out perform on the long term and they have the lowest management fees associated with them. To me that makes them a good choice.

We're kind of moving away from OP question tho, as it applies in particular to his mother.

I guess it depends on how that money is currently being used. If it's just a lump sum of cash in a bank or checking acct, I'd start moving portions of it into index funds and PM's and I'd be sure to avoid anything that has legal overhead and consequences like penalties for early withdrawal and eventually at some point death benefits and disbursement.

A big liquid pool of cash earning basically no interest in a checking/savings acct is great for paying bills, but it doesn't help hedge, protect or grow the money.

My grandfather went for almost a decade of declining health and all of that meant drastically increasing medical bills as it progressed. Modern medicine has people living much longer, but that doesn't always equate to equal standard of living.

Good luck! my distrust of the Fed, the .gov and the banksters in general leads me to phyz, but that's for me in today, I hope you find something that offers flexibility without a lot of overhead and fee's associated for your mother.


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## Zthayer (Apr 15, 2014)

"Thought about letting mom invest 1/2 of her savings (the part that would be the sister's future inheritance). If the investment turns sour, sister loses her inheritance and mom would have to cut back a bit. If the investment turns out good then good for the Sister!"

I know for me that is what I will be doing. Your mother hopefully already understands that 1/2 of her wealth is going to your sister and the other half is going to you. I'ld sit down with a lawyer and write out a will staing the detailed amount you will be receiving and how much she will be receiving. Give your sister permission to do what she will with the money currently and until your mother does pass make it clear that it still belongs to your mother so she does not try to run off with the cash. If by chance the investment pans out great add that earning to your sisters initial 50%. at which point it would be more than you receive. Or the opposite if the gold starts losing value. 

Just a thought. I went through a death in the family where I was literally promised everything. Before i could claim it all, most all was sold or given away. The fact that nothing was in writing and no lawyer was present meant that I had nothing to say. 

But hey "family is family, nothing more nothing less"


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Zthayer said:


> Just a thought. I went through a death in the family where I was literally promised everything. Before i could claim it all, most all was sold or given away. The fact that nothing was in writing and no lawyer was present meant that I had nothing to say.
> 
> But hey "family is family, nothing more nothing less"


If the family member passed in the 'great' state of California you are 100% wrong. California probate laws protect the families of decedents without wills or living trusts as well as insures the state gets their cut from taxes. K has been dealing with the same issue pertaining to his father's estate and how his father's b*tch of a third wife skipped taking the estate to probate (illegal in California for estates without wills or living trusts) and disposed of everything without telling the 5 adult kids. Don't get me started on how she skipped the state within 5 months of her husband's death to escape foreclosure on the house and other tax issues.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

As far as investments go I got bad news today. Around 2002 I had 50 grand saved up. A good friend of mine told me strongly to invest in Apple. I bought a Harley and blew the rest. Today I looked up the stock prices and had I followed his advice and invested I would have about 4 million. The stock just kept climbing but my Harley didn't!! At the time Apple was around 18 bucks a share. It peaked over 700 but is now over 500. And it split. If only....... Of course my buddy invested and sold out when it hit 500. He bought a house. Anyone have a time machine I can borrow??


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Caribou said:


> I would never advise that anyone put all their eggs in one basket.


Smart!



Caribou said:


> What are gold and silver prices going to be next year? If I could reliably tell what PM prices were going to be an hour from now I'd be on my own island somewhere. PM's are for a hedge. Buy on the dips and hold or buy a little every month and hold. To buy low and sell high is for someone with a lot more knowledge of the market than I.


Correct. We look at commodities priced in dollars usually without looking at their value relative to one another. The ratio of silver to corn or gold to beef doesn't fluctuate that much. The dollar is the problem: its value is fluctuating. I don't look at PMs as an investment because that implies the dollar is a fixed value. It isn't.

I certainly don't give investing advice because I'm not qualified. But I can read history and look at numbers and confidently say that buying PMs is a reasonable store of wealth. Unlike land, art and gems, PMs are real money in every sense.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

So what if your mom is losing 1/2 to 1% a year?

What happens if gold goes to 1/2 it's value tomorrow? How will that impact mom's remaining life? How about if it doubles in value?

Gold is a LONG TERM storage of value.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

No, it's a constant store of value, short or long term. An ounce of gold relative to beef, corn, copper, wheat, textiles and other commodities usually holds pretty flat barring a short-term glut or shortage of one thing or another.

When PM prices fluctuate, the only thing going up or down in value is the currency you're measuring the price in; the quantity and quality of the commodity (gold, silver, whatever) does not change.

Granted there is an enormous amount of price manipulation on PM today. But if that manipulation stopped, PM prices would go which direction? Up. Quickly. In fact, there is such high demand for physical PM that if manipulation were to end, we would almost certainly see PM values break from their traditional ratios to other commodities.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I look at PM like any other hard asset, not as an investment. But only if you actually have physical PM, not stock on paper. If the economy crashes, PM will hold their value and even go up in value and can still be used as currency, but I can't eat gold or silver. If society collapses, food, water, and things like weapons and ammo will be worth more than their weight in gold and I could barter with those things as currency and also feed my family at the same time. I would hold PM after all my other needs are met. I just see other assets as more important for me to invest in at this time.


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