# Can China Shut Down Our Telecom?



## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

My dad combs the net looking for items of interest and is on distribution lists of a number of his friends and he sent me a DOC file last night. It does not cite a source or have a web address but it is worth reading and looking into.

Does anyone have any information on this? Has anyone heard of this problem before? If it has been discussed, I apparently missed it.

Any input or discussion is appreciated.

Chinese companies apparently have a covert capability to remotely
access communications technology sold to the United States and
other Western countries and could “disable a country’s telecommunications
infrastructure before a military engagement,” according to former and
current intelligence sources.
The Chinese also have the ability to exploit networks “to enable China
to continue to steal technology and trade secrets,” according to the open
source intelligence company Lignet, which is comprised of former U.S.
intelligence analysts.
The issue centers on the Chinese firm Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd.,
which U.S. intelligence sources say has direct links to the Chinese government
and the People’s Liberation Army, or pla. These sources assert
that Huawei and other Chinese telecommunications firms such as zte
Corp. have “electronic backdoors” to telecommunications technology sold
to the U.S. and other countries. 
The problem of fake Chinese electronic components, which were installed
by defense contractors without prior testing and are operating in U.S.
military systems, is far more widespread than originally thought.
These parts don’t just come directly from China, but also from suppliers
in Britain and Canada who redirect Chinese products to U.S. defense
contractors. These counterfeit components have been found in sensitive U.S.
missile systems meant to thwart the potential of a Chinese missile attack,
in night vision devices and in various military aircraft With cyber-espionage on the rise
and increasing attacks aimed at U.S. government computer systems, these
sources contend that Huawei has achieved that capability on behalf of
the Chinese government. Sources say that Huawei can use its backdoor access
to reach into foreign telecommunications company systems without its
knowledge or permission.


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## paguy (Jun 8, 2012)

Not that I believe or doubt anything but, prove it to me. It is a good possibility without a doubt but, I want proof.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

paguy said:


> Not that I believe or doubt anything but, prove it to me. It is a good possibility without a doubt but, I want proof.


Thats why I threw it out, I have no proof one way or the other but was hoping someone else had information about it.

It sounds plausible but I know how rumors can get pulled into mainstream as fact.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

There are valid concerns regarding this, but I would highly doubt that anything very sensitive would use components from a suspect source. The chain of ownership is followed very closely for anything that comes in to a secure facility.

Now, with that being said... obviously a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, and if some yahoo forgets to leave his personal cellphone in his car and it were to get remotely activated in a sensitive site... that would be bad.

Long story short, I've never heard of any fears of a great weakness like that, but it only takes one screw-up to let a virus or something in.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

There are some that believe the bios of most new computers contains nefarious code that allows remote access to the computer.


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## paguy (Jun 8, 2012)

partdeux said:


> There are some that believe the bios of most new computers contains nefarious code that allows remote access to the computer.


Some people have their tin foil hat on a little too tight.


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## lucaspm98 (Apr 23, 2012)

I have some experience with computers and their weaknesses, and it extremely easy to "bug" a civilian computer in only a few seconds. I doubt though that the computers would be built with some spy or kill code.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

I've heard the Russians could jam it back in the 80's if they could,China can.


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## bahramthered (Mar 10, 2012)

The communi9cations system these days is very easy to hack, but is designed for people to be able to add their own security. 

Since China is not the only hacker I would expect most companies to be very secure. Otherwise anyone with a laptop would be a serious threat.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

I suspect all major countries are hard at work to compromise each others networks and infrastructure.
Including America.
If they are not then they are not doing their job.
What better way to stop an enemy cold than to shut down their grid?
Hard to wage war if the power is off all over the country.


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## MichaelK (Aug 3, 2011)

You guys are focusing your attention on software based attacks, which surely the Chinese must be working on, but there's also the question of physical attack of communications hardware.

So much of our communications network is satelite based these days, and last year the Chinese began field testing "killer satelite" technology, that is a Chinese launched satelite specifically designed to attack and destroy other satelites. Don't know if the killer is designed to explode or if it simply collides with another satelite.

I think the US also has backups, satelites already in orbit, but not "turned on".


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

partdeux said:


> There are some that believe the bios of most new computers contains nefarious code that allows remote access to the computer.


If the code was there I'm sure it would be discovered. Computers and networks are easy to hack when done by experts anyway.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

BillS said:


> If the code was there I'm sure it would be discovered. Computers and networks are easy to hack when done by experts anyway.


I'm not so sure. A friend of mine works for one of the top largest companies in the world. He travels all over the world. They are warned to NOT buy computers overseas, not connect to anything but a secure network, and only use the VPN.

What would stop the company burning bios chips from slipping in a small piece of nefarious code that would allow an "activation" code to slip in some software? It would be way too easy. There was a book written a few years ago about all the back doors that were available on DEC and IBM computers a couple of decades ago. The author had tried to alert people in charge and struggled to get anybody to listen to him.

I deal with China almost every day. I'm constantly surprised by what I have to deal with. A friend of mine had warned me about an issue he deals with in India, and that is "bob" is a different person from the "bob" this week. I've discovered my primary contact is at least two different "jackie's"


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

Back in the 80's my company introduced computors in the work place and I was tasked with getting our department up to date.

I started by entering our employee's names , addresses and phone numbers in to the computer.

We had several employees that compleatly lost it, stating that they did not want their name in the department computer. They were like natives who feared photography would steal their soul.

We had credit customers that did not want their accounts entered into the computer because nefarious entitys could steal their money , ect.

It was a hoot! Now I wonder if they were right?


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

BillM said:


> Back in the 80's my company introduced computors in the work place and I was tasked with getting our department up to date.
> 
> I started by entering our employee's names , addresses and phone numbers in to the computer.
> 
> ...


They were right.

A friend was ordered by his boss to turn over his driver's license number. He went to personnel, who put a stop to the activity, but it only stopped for my friend. The LAPTOP storing the data, and everybody in the laptop had their identity stolen, except my friend's.

I've had my credit card stolen twice about six weeks apart. The 2nd time was immediately after I used it at a secure site. It had not been used for a week before that.


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## Laura (Oct 1, 2011)

Just returned from China. Sensitive information on a corporate level is 
" easy " for them and this is common knowledge. Government information?? 
Just using good sense......follow the money trail and adhere to "there are no secrets". I am just a mom and this answer is not rocket science. Telecommunications is vulnerable because we are human...codes, payoffs, favors, politics, ect. 
This is just my take on this. You want hard proof? You have a lot of digging to do. A great place to start would be finding out the fronts for foreign money used to fund our US political candidates. Also...The Year Of The Rat.....a good read .


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Cyber war, hacking, corporate data theft, etc. It's here, it's going to get worse. If you don't use "disposable" credit card numbers online, store personal data in encrypted files and take other sensible precautions, then it's just a matter of time until you get burned. 

Our corporate policy at work involves a very locked down network, extremely limited access from outside and any international travelers take a "new" computer with them for each trip. They aren't actually new, but completely wiped and rebuilt between trips. Of course all hard drives are encrypted too. 

Paranoid? No. Our company has already been the target of at least one corporate data theft attempt and "they" are constantly banging on our door trying to get back in. Most attempts get traced back to the far east (china, taiwan, korea, etc.) We have a global presence so we have to travel for business but we make sure to take every precaution we can.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I think its just like everyone on here already knows- " hope for the best but plan for the worst". 
"Can China Shut Down Our Telecom"
if they can't you can bet they are working very hard to be able to.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

BillS said:


> If the code was there I'm sure it would be discovered. Computers and networks are easy to hack when done by experts anyway.


Have you ever sat down with about 3-4 megs of code, poring through it to find a problem that you knew was there?

Finding something well hidden could be next to impossible until it manifested its self, then it could still be extremely difficult to trace and identify in the code.

Been there and done that!


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

There might be access to it as the OP states. If China has it, it came from an ally who actually has it. Fox News did a 4 part expose' right after 9-11-01 on Israeli intelligence using technology companies for a back door into ALL phone communications/cell phone comms in major US markets. Amdocs is one of the companies mentioned. It comes to the phone tracking at 5 minutes. Some of these companies manufacture parts of the network operations control equipment, which could give them a back door to control the network.
http://www.amdocs.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx
Here's the series link. 



If you look at the history of spying in the USA, you have to look at your allies as the culprits. They have the access. When you hear the phrase "public/private partnership", it's seldom for your benefit. Russia got our nuke secrets from Israel during or right after the Manhattan Project in exchange for releasing human political assets to the newly formed country of Israel.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Davarm said:


> Have you ever sat down with about 3-4 megs of code, poring through it to find a problem that you knew was there?
> 
> Finding something well hidden could be next to impossible until it manifested its self, then it could still be extremely difficult to trace and identify in the code.
> 
> Been there and done that!


The last "attack" against our company involved going through about 5 terabytes of logs. Yes, that was terabyte with a T! Of course automated tools were used for most of the analysis but even those take quite awhile to run. Of course, manually going through a few MB of machine code isn't going to be quick either....


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Im no expert, but isnt remote access built into Win7? And hasnt MSFT had huge issues with security in the past, exhibited by thei constant release of security fixes? I unno nothing about BIOS, but it certainly doesnt seem very far fetched. If the US was run the same way China is, dont you think we would be doing the same thing?


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Immolatus said:


> Im no expert, but isnt remote access built into Win7? And hasnt MSFT had huge issues with security in the past, exhibited by thei constant release of security fixes? I unno nothing about BIOS, but it certainly doesnt seem very far fetched. If the US was run the same way China is, dont you think we would be doing the same thing?


I haven't upgraded to 7 but I suspect that the remote access can easily be blocked(with setup options and by other means) as it can be with older versions of Windows..


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Windows in the past had remote access capabilities. IMO Win 7 is the most secure of the bunch. BUT, with the complexity of the code, and the crazy way the OS works, it's still way too each to get in through a back door.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

The Windows 7 comments seem to be assuming that the person/company is relying on the operating system for their security. Bad move. 

We have the inbound router (where know bad addresses or subnets can be blocked), the firewall where much more comprehensive blocking, filtering and detection activities take place, traffic shapers/QOS device (stuff that makes sure business uses of the connection take precedence over someone surfing youtube), additional routers and then finally you get to our internal network. From there besides the OS we also have on each PC a local firewall and virus/threat detection software along with network wide filtering and blocking (i.e. we block you from surfing porn, for example, even though technically that site meets the "rules" for all the other devices.

This doesn't even take into account remote access by users and satellite offices via VPN and/or MPLS type connections. It's all pretty technical but also what most "real" companies should have in place at a minimum.

For a home users, a good basic router/firewall and decent secuirty software on their system is a good start. Not running windows is even better. Mac or Linux operating systems are both possibilities with Linux working on nearly any PC, it's well supported and free being three strong selling points for it.


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