# US power grid in danger? Judge Jeanine on Fox News



## ROBIE

I don't have a TV so I didn't watch this show when it aired nor do I know how popular it is, but hopefully many people have seen it.

On Fox News Judge Jeanine has a show where she talks about our power grid being in danger. She went to a meeting where this topic was talked about and it scared her.

I found the show on youtube and I'll post it in 3 parts.

Part1: 




part2:




and part 3 wich looks like it was done on a different day:





Not a lot that is new to most of us that have been prepping for a few years now, but hopefully someone else is starting and most likely even she is now starting to prep.

I think bringing this problem to the main stream is a good thing. What do you think?

Robie


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## Quills

I wouldn't believe anything I saw on Fox News without another independent source backing it up.


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## k0xxx

Quills said:


> I wouldn't believe anything I saw on Fox News without another independent source backing it up.


As *ROBIE* said, this isn't anything new to most of us, as it's been discussed and sourced many times here. If it's news to you, regardless of who is reporting it, then you may want to do some homework.


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## FatTire

now Quills, Faux news is a bastion of conservative truth in a sea of liberal lies... Its not like Faux News won a court case stipulating that lying on air is just fine...

Having said that, there exist many sources saying that the power grid is quite vulnerable, and the consequences for it going down are extremely dire. Heres former CIA director James Woolsey...


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## LincTex

FatTire said:


> Having said that, there exist many sources saying that the power grid is quite vulnerable, and the consequences for it going down are extremely dire. Heres former CIA director James Woolsey...


Agreed... Most people (95% or better) don't comprehend the possibilities

and the results of the grid going down would be extensively bad... 
*even if there were no attack or equipment damage anywhere*, just shutting down all of North America would take days to weeks to get everything back to normal and all "synched up" again.


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## robinray649

*just my 2 cents*

If we had another 1859 Carrington Event, not counting nuclear, you could tell how bad it would by just looking at one single part of the problem. How many people say in New York City alone would have to be rescued from elevators. If you think about it a little bit that one problem would be a nightmare. There would be thousands upon thousands trapped in elevators. Now your brain explodes expanding on all the problems such an event would cause just in New York City. Then your brain starts hurting when you expand that across the entire nation. The same would be true of a nuclear emp, or a hacker starting a cascading collapse across the grid. Anyway ya'll have a good day.:congrat:


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## Geek999

Let's flip the question on it's head. Is there any authoritative source saying the power grid is reliable and secure against threats like EMPs or Carrington events?


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## Quills

I'm not denying the danger. I'm saying that I wouldn't cite Fox News as a reliable source of information.


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## Geek999

Quills said:


> I'm not denying the danger. I'm saying that I wouldn't cite Fox News as a reliable source of information.


I don't think I would cite any news network as a reliable source of information without corroboration. Do you have one you would rely on?


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## tsrwivey

Quills said:


> I'm not denying the danger. I'm saying that I wouldn't cite Fox News as a reliable source of information.


I don't know that there are reliable sources of news. You just kinda have to read several sources & try to separate fact from fiction. :dunno:


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## Tacitus

Quills said:


> I'm saying that I wouldn't cite Fox News as a reliable source of information.


Why? Do you think they get it wrong more than the others?


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## RevWC

As much as I luv all y'all the best thing that can happen to this planet is the loss of all tech s**t ran by electricity.......i could go back to reading a good book under candle light, playing my acoustic guitar, growing my own food, and spending quality time with my family, nature, and Jesus...


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## labotomi

RevWC said:


> As much as I luv all y'all the best thing that can happen to this planet is the loss of all tech s**t ran by electricity.......i could go back to reading a good book under candle light, playing my acoustic guitar, growing my own food, and spending quality time with my family, nature, and Jesus...


Why do you have to wait for SHTF? Why not just do that now?


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## cqp33

I watched the long video that FatTire posted after the Fox videos, there are several occasions where it skips time, those times i believe they were getting into "sensitive" information areas I believe. There is some info in there that I thought was "sensitive" at least it was when I was in the Navy, but I can't say what I thought was "sensitive". Anyways the video he posted broke down some very technical details to make them understandable by the average Jane or Joe that doesn't understand RADAR or capabilities. It highlights our vulnerabilities, I just can't believe that DOD has not removed it yet!
This is all my personal opinion and in no way backed up by facts!


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## GaryS

Just because one news source reports news the others ignore, or if it is something you don't want to hear, does not make it unreliable. History judges accuracy and determines the reliability of any news source, which is why so many are failing today.

As Fox News becomes overly smug with success and slowly evolves into just one more self-aggrandizing collection of pretty faces and witty repertoire, it too will fade and be replaced by a serious news agency.


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## PrepN4Good

Quills said:


> I'm not denying the danger. I'm saying that I wouldn't cite Fox News as a reliable source of information.


Since you're painting with a broad brush, please cite a specific example where FNC deliberately put out false information about a news story. (No, I don't want to hear about Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity; they are pundits, not reporters.)

Sorry to take the thread OT, but this kind of thing irritates me. :ignore:


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## Geek999

RevWC said:


> As much as I luv all y'all the best thing that can happen to this planet is the loss of all tech s**t ran by electricity.......i could go back to reading a good book under candle light, playing my acoustic guitar, growing my own food, and spending quality time with my family, nature, and Jesus...


And a life expectancy of 47 like we had in 1900?


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## HardCider

I wouldn't stress out about EMP's or major solar events. There are way more likely causes for a rolling cascade type blackout. A tree limb ultimately took out over 50 million consumers in 2003 across the Northeast and Canada. In brutually cold weather like we are experiencing this winter, shear load could shut down the grid for days. An ice storm at the right place and time can and will do the same thing. The simple fact is that as this country becomes more dependent on technology, farther away from the life skills of our forefathers, and packed into cities and big towns, EMP's, solar events and isolated acts of terrorism should be the least of your worries. But then I'm preaching to the choir here.

Be safe out there


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## BillS

Quills said:


> I wouldn't believe anything I saw on Fox News without another independent source backing it up.


Huh? You believe the liberal drivel on CNN or the other lamestream media? Fox News is the only reliable news network. They're not apologists for Obama the way everyone else is. They talk about the stories the other networks refuse to cover like the IRS scandal. Are you aware of the IRS scandal or do you refuse to believe it because it's not on CNN???


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## BillS

I'm sure the power grid will go down once we have war with Russia and China. That's what Obama wants. We almost had a world war over Syria last fall. I'm sure Chinese hackers will bring down the power grids at that time.


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## Geek999

BillS said:


> I'm sure the power grid will go down once we have war with Russia and China. That's what Obama wants. We almost had a world war over Syria last fall. I'm sure Chinese hackers will bring down the power grids at that time.


I'm not sure I'd agree with that. Obama doesn't start wars, he loses them. Getting back on point, I suspect EMPs would be included in any nuclear exchange.


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## oldwildheart

There have been a number of good article written on this subject. For the easy research use UTUBE. Type electrical grid, electrical grid failure, etc. There a number of good vids on the subject also.

There is no doubt the system is vulnerable, it is near 100 years old with no real significant upgrades since it was first installed.


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## ROBIE

Well I was going to give Quill a hard time for hurting himself with that kneejerk, but looks like enough people have already done so. 

Ya don't trust fox news, but agree that what they said was right? ..duh....

I does not matter who put the information out, CNN, MSNBC, Salon, Slate or the Huffpo, I still would have posted the videos. 
It just happened to be fox news, the most watched network, with the highest ratings, on a show I didn't even know they had. I don't have TV so I catch all this second hand.

There is a lot of information out there about EMP's and other threats to our power grid, but this is the first time a major news network is putting it out! Not a youtube prepper, not alex jones, or doomsday preppers, but a major (most watched, highest ratings) news network. 

For more information about EMP's and such, read the book "One Second After". Watch "American Blackout" on youtube, and look up the trailer for a movie called "Dragon Day" (strait to DVD release). The first and best thing is the book I mentioned "One Second After". Those of us that have read it will agree, it will get you thinking, and possibly crying. 


Robie


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## FatTire

PrepN4Good said:


> Since you're painting with a broad brush, please cite a specific example where FNC deliberately put out false information about a news story. (No, I don't want to hear about Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity; they are pundits, not reporters.)
> 
> Sorry to take the thread OT, but this kind of thing irritates me. :ignore:


Ok, theres a big story out there on BGH (bovine growth hormone), which reporters then working for faux news discovered. But, it turned out the company that developed the drug was a big advertiser on faux news, so faux news chopped up the original story, turning what was an expose on a dangerous drug put in our food supply, into a puff piece extolling the virtues of BGH. The reporters sued, but faux news lawyers eventually won, the legal premise being that faux news has the right to lie on the air.

Oh and by the way, BGH is banned in cenada, most of europe, and japan.

Faux News is, according to the case law, entertainment, not news. They fought a lengthy court battle to ensure the decision.


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## Geek999

The Europeans object to BGH? Don't they also still believe in Global warming? Socialism? Flat earth?


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## PrepN4Good

FatTire said:


> Ok, theres a big story out there on BGH (bovine growth hormone), which reporters then working for faux news discovered. But, it turned out the company that developed the drug was a big advertiser on faux news, so faux news chopped up the original story, turning what was an expose on a dangerous drug put in our food supply, into a puff piece extolling the virtues of BGH. The reporters sued, but faux news lawyers eventually won, the legal premise being that faux news has the right to lie on the air.
> 
> Faux News is, according to the case law, entertainment, not news. They fought a lengthy court battle to ensure the decision.


FWIW, this appears to be a lawsuit against a LOCAL FOX TV AFFILIATE in Tampa, FL...NOT the Fox News Channel. Sorry to disappoint you, FT. :sssh:


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## hiwall

Rather than EMP which I feel is quite unlikely, I think a greater risk is terrorists doing physical damage in many areas at the same time. Or a hacker attack.


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## oldwildheart

Getting back on topic here, as Hardcider said, there are a number of way the system could be taken down. As antiquated and dilapidated as it is, this cold weather we are experiencing is only going to weaken the system even more over time. Leave anything outside in extreme conditions and it will deteriorate quicker.

I don't think terrorism should be discounted. That would be an easy act to accomplish and we haven't had anything significant happen for a while. The Islamist are not backing down. Look the world over.


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## Geek999

It seems to me the point of the OP is that if Fox News does a story about the grid going down, it indicates the concern is going mainstream and is no longer just the paranoia of some fringe element prepper/survivalist nuts.

Offhand thaat sounds like a good thing.


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## FatTire

PrepN4Good said:


> FWIW, this appears to be a lawsuit against a LOCAL FOX TV AFFILIATE in Tampa, FL...NOT the Fox News Channel. Sorry to disappoint you, FT. :sssh:


So you believe faux corporate had nothing to do with it? Thats fascinating.. do you also send money to people that email you claiming they won the lotto in bangladesh?

As to the op, yes according to anyone who is in a position to know anything about it, the IS power grid is highly vulnerable.


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## Geek999

FatTire said:


> So you believe faux corporate had nothing to do with it? Thats fascinating.. do you also send money to people that email you claiming they won the lotto in bangladesh?
> 
> As to the op, yes according to anyone who is in a position to know anything about it, the IS power grid is highly vulnerable.


So why are you skeptical about a story on Fox News that agrees with what every reliable source seems to think is correct?


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## Caribou

Fox is made up of people so by definition it is imperfect. I am unclear as to why some are getting down on Fox for putting out an article that supports what many here have stated. There are far better examples to complain about. When I have seen Fox put out BS it has usually been when they state both sides. If you want to corroborate this, or any other, story then it is your responsibility to do so.


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## PrepN4Good

FatTire said:


> So you believe faux corporate had nothing to do with it? Thats fascinating.. do you also send money to people that email you claiming they won the lotto in bangladesh?


I have no way of knowing that, & neither do you. You know what happens when you ASSUME.

Rather than continuing to hijack this thread, why don't we start another one, all about how FNC is run by Satan...? 

To the OP, I'd be happier to see a report about the crumbling grid on CBS or ABC; at least it MIGHT reach a segment of the population that is completely in the dark about it (no pun intended!). FNC viewers _probably_ already have a clue about this.


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## Tacitus

It is important for some people to marginalize FoxNews because FoxNews is the only media outlet that reports on issues which reflect unfavorably on liberals. (Just for example, when the ACORN issue broke, FoxNews covered it for 2 weeks before CNN.com ran there first story on it...and CNN only ran that story after the White House was forced to comment on the story at a press conference.) If they can marginalize FoxNews, then they don't have to deal with those political problems. They can say, "It's just Fox News. We can't trust them."

I'm sure many conservatives feel the same way about NBC News, the most liberal of the other media outlets. NBC News (the national entity) has been caught faking news stories several times before (trucks blowing up, edited Zimmerman 911 tapes to race bait, edited Romney video to make him look like he'd never checked out at a grocery store) and their official tweet account just libeled conservatives by saying that they hate interracial marriage. The entire organization is dedicated to promoting the liberal cause.

Either way, it is politics which is the motivating factor in attacks on FoxNews, not a desire for truth in media.


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## Tirediron

the grid is super fragile, go look at the security measures at substations, the millions of miles of wire. ask a lineman if he/she owns a generator.

News networks broadcast what sells not information. they all spin it however they are told.


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## FatTire

Geek999 said:


> So why are you skeptical about a story on Fox News that agrees with what every reliable source seems to think is correct?


Im not at all skeptical about the story. The only issue i have is that so many 'on the right' seem to think Faux News is a bastion of truth. They very clearly are not. That being said, none of the main stream media is. They are all there to sell ad space and to perpetuate divisiveness. That is the function of propaganda, keeping the people divided and under control. That you all love to defend Faux News, just means its working...


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## HardCider

I could care less about what news organization says what. Don't look at stories, look at trends. The grid, more and more, is tied together all across the country. High speed electronic switching systems are replacing simple solid blades and fuses. Society demands perfect, uninterrupted electric. Stores and food storage and delivery is on a "just in time" schedule. Don't worry about the stories and don't lose focus. You are right about the divide and conquer strategy. Be careful out there.


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## Geek999

FatTire said:


> Im not at all skeptical about the story. The only issue i have is that so many 'on the right' seem to think Faux News is a bastion of truth. They very clearly are not. That being said, none of the main stream media is. They are all there to sell ad space and to perpetuate divisiveness. That is the function of propaganda, keeping the people divided and under control. That you all love to defend Faux News, just means its working...


I'm not defending any news organization. I think they all try to get things correct and often fail. Hence a bit of skepticism is warranted no matter which of them you prefer.

My sense of the OP was not a promotion of Fox News. I think if a similar story were on any of the networks it would indicate the same thing, that concern about the grid is becoming a mainstream concern.


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## Iafrate

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that the grid is vulnerable. It is infrastructure, and ALL of our infrastructure is decaying. Bridges, sewer systems, water distribution systems, highways, aviation infrastructure. It's all a tenuous existance and dangerously close to the precipice. The grid, due to its geographic extent and society's utter dependence on it makes it both the most critical and vis a vis the most vulnerable. Who gives a rats ass who reports something like this? Blindly questioning a report because this network or that one reported it is blatantly lacking in critical thinking skills and merely cowering behind paranoia's poison door.


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## gabbyj310

Common knowledge should prevail.Regardless if it comes from Fox News or anywhere else.We all know our power grid is a borderline antique and very open to any kind of attack.As is our water supply.I'm just surprised that we haven't already been hit.Isn't this one reason we "prep"?We as like minded people,know where the truth lies and we try to stay one step ahead and be prepared for ourselves and family.


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## Tacitus

By the way, Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) was just on that Judge Jeanine show on FoxNews (in a follow up segment yesterday). He stated that this is a big problem, and he lauded FoxNews for reporting on this issue. He stated that this was a non-partisan issue.

I never watch her show--just not a fan of Judge Jeanine--but I recorded this one because I knew that this segment would be on it.


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## goshengirl

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Kucinich, but he's been vocal about this issue, and I give him a lot of credit for that. We don't have to be on the same side of the fence to see what's right in front of our faces.


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## VoorTrekker

I'm impressed at Rep. Kucinich. Usually his bills begin with "impeach George Bush." 

The grid being that vulnerable is definitely a non partisan concern. It's a civilization concern.


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## HamiltonFelix

I've been with the same mostly hydroelectric utility since the spring of 1974. I'm am its most senior Hydroelectric Operator. I consider "the Grid" to be MUCH more vulnerable than it was when I started. This is partly because of changes in equipment - the plants we had in the 1960's and early 1970's would be recoverable from an EMP, but not now.

But it's also because of "Deregulation" that happened in 2000 (like "tax reform," the rule book always gets thicker and the print finer - Deregulation is 800 pages of fine print). Under the new set of rules, the system is operated by the rules of cutthroat business instead of the rules of physics. A utility will load a line to its maximum just to prevent a competitor from wheeling power on that line. There are more voltage and frequency excursions than in the past. Modern equipment, excitation systems on our units, voltage regulators, etc. are supposed to make the system more stable, but they are also in many cases fragile and difficult to repair with personnel and parts a utility has on site.

Utilities have become increasingly politicized and are often run by people who may have management degrees, but now little about electricity. Money managers do not feel the same about preventive maintenance as would someone actually working in those plants. This is happening everywhere, so don't think I'm targeting utilities, it's just the USA we live in.

Should we be hit by a Carrington event, like the one which just barely missed us last year, the parts and pieces we'd need to repair/recover are often items one orders a year ahead of time - and these days manufactured in Brazil, South Korea, etc. Not much is made here anymore.

If you want to know what to expect, but prefer the light reading of a novel, get Forstchen's "One Second After." However, the actual 2008 government study on EMP is available at Amazon for $11.66 at the moment.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0615535674...=UTF8&colid=U2RT3WT5IFU4&coliid=I350SDDOPB3UF

I grew up using kerosene lamps (folks didn't get power until the early 70's), and I collect them now.


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## oldwildheart

I have a laundry list of "TO DO" items. One of them is to install a transfer switch so I can hook up the generator.

I would have an Electrician do it. I figure about $1200 parts and labor. Sound about right?

My big concern is the well pump and the refrigerators.


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## GaryS

oldwildheart said:


> I have a laundry list of "TO DO" items. One of them is to install a transfer switch so I can hook up the generator.
> 
> I would have an Electrician do it. I figure about $1200 parts and labor. Sound about right?
> 
> My big concern is the well pump and the refrigerators.


That's almost exactly what I paid to have an electrician wire in an automatic transfer switch for a 20kw whole house generator. If it's a manual switch, it should run a bit less...at least it would here.


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## oldwildheart

I think my next career will be construction estimator.


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## HardCider

As found out last April, a single sharpshooter can wipe out a substation in Silicon Valley. What could a couple dozen well placed people do to a large portion of the grid. I never heard if authorities ever caught the person or people responsible for last year.


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## gabbyj310

Hamiltonfelix,I so agree about "the bean counters"They sit in their offices and tell us how we "should " do this or that.Ha let them try...I just got off a ship where"they" cut my food order by several dollars(trying to save money right??)Guess what...we ran out of certain foods(eggs for one) twice.Guess the cost of these foods in the Mid-East..Yep over 3 times the cost and no Kroger in sight.They don't have a clue and still scream about spending too much money.I say PLEASE PLEASE come do my job on the money and equipment that YOU say is enough.Fat chance....I have a crew of 22 and sometimes more(depending on the ship)eating 3 meals a day 7 days a week..They figure cost at 10.50 a day per person.Ha you can't even eat a MacDonalds for that..So our poor power grid is old and a antique,but they had rather get the year end "bonus" than fix a major utility..Can you say "solar power"backup because we are going to need lots of backup or go back to going to bed at dark!


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## lotsoflead

Personally, I think all the talk about the power grid is a lot of fear mongering, the Judge said it all in the first sentence, "I left there with fear" just what she was supposed to say after leaving there. TV all about rating, you get rating by keeping the audience, you keep the audience by keeping them interested. The government can keep up their spending binge and printing the useless dollar by keeping the sheeple scared.
60 minutes done a report on this either just before Obama got in office or just after, can't remember which, but I remember them saying that if a certain part failed, the part was made in France and we would have to order it and it would take a yr to get it. I'm sure that's been taken care of by now. that could have even been more fear mongering at the time.

parts of the grid may fail or get hacked at some point in time.but not all, just like a flood, tornado, hurricane, just sections, even the G.Depression didn't affect everyone. Most of the elected officials may have their head where the sun doesn't shine, but the people in charge of the grid don't.


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## Geek999

lotsoflead said:


> Personally, I think all the talk about the power grid is a lot of fear mongering, the Judge said it all in the first sentence, "I left there with fear" just what she was supposed to say after leaving there. TV all about rating, you get rating by keeping the audience, you keep the audience by keeping them interested. The government can keep up their spending binge and printing the useless dollar by keeping the sheeple scared.
> 60 minutes done a report on this either just before Obama got in office or just after, can't remember which, but I remember them saying that if a certain part failed, the part was made in France and we would have to order it and it would take a yr to get it. I'm sure that's been taken care of by now. that could have even been more fear mongering at the time.
> 
> parts of the grid may fail or get hacked at some point in time.but not all, just like a flood, tornado, hurricane, just sections, even the G.Depression didn't affect everyone. Most of the elected officials may have their head where the sun doesn't shine, but the people in charge of the grid don't.


The grid going down through a large portion of the country and staying down for a prolonged period is a low probability event at this time, but it isn't a zero probability event. The combination of poor maintenance, lack of parts, etc. is gradually making the problem a bigger issue. More people are becoming aware of it.

We lost power for 8 days during Hurricane Sandy and other folks lost it for a month or more. Combine that with roads closed due to downed trees, gas stations that can't pump, etc. and it was pretty much a mess.

Judge Jeanine is not my favorite newscaster, or even my favorite Fox newscaster, but I think she did a decent job with this issue and if you aren't personally prepared to do without grid power for a period of time, I'd say you need to continue working on your preps.


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## ROBIE

When the power does go out, it often spills over to other areas not affected in the first event. 
It could start local then quickly spread to a whole section of the national power grid. 
Just this week out here in California, we had a "Flex Alert" telling us to cut back on our power and gas so it could be used back east in the snow storms. 

Let that sink in! 

Im 3000 miles away from the snow storm, but being told to conserve on gas and electricity so it can be used by people on the other side of the country!

And this is a natural event causing so much disruption in the power grid. What would happen if a terrorist attack happened to the grid? We already had snipers attacking a sub station here in California. 

and as Geek 999 mentions hurricane Sandy, I remember how human stupidity was a huge factor in keeping power from the people that needed it. Line men and electrical workers from all across the country moved in to help restore power, but there were refused by the local companies because they were not in the same union or not even union at all!! 

So! Likely hood of a total grid down happening? Not very, but still possible. Its not a zero event. 



Robie


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## LincTex

Geek999 said:


> If you aren't personally prepared to do without grid power for a period of time, I'd say you need to continue working on your preps.


You bet - how many preppers have ever tried going three solid days without power? Not many.



ROBIE said:


> stupidity was a huge factor in keeping power from the people that needed it. Line men and electrical workers from all across the country moved in to help restore power, but there were refused by the local companies because they were not in the same union or not even union at all!!


That's not just stupidity.... that is *insanity*. 
Sounds like a law needs to be re-written.


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## Geek999

LincTex said:


> You bet - how many preppers have ever tried going three solid days without power? Not many.
> 
> That's not just stupidity.... that is *insanity*.
> Sounds like a law needs to be re-written.


Or repealed.


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## Zeev_Zwaard

Our enemies are not driving us crazy (and making us loose MORE of our freedoms) because they lack imagination and are lazy. If I was in their place 75% of the country would be under their beds afraid of coming out.

Most of our infrastructure is there for the taking. It’s not only the power grid; our water is basically defenseless. We have no surveillance. We are like a naked 14 years old plump girl in a convention of drunk out of their skull bikers.

And one of those Iranian canoes could be carrying a nuke. Any container approaching an American port could be carrying a big old nuke.

We are really lucky it was only the WTC, so far. Really, really lucky.


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## ROBIE

The wife and I have gone 3 days without power! Took a 3 day weekend and did an exercise. 
Flipped the main breaker so there was no power at all in out apartment. 

But that was before our rug rat infestation! :2thumb::melikey: 

We really need to do it again soon. Been in our house for just over a year now, and need to see how ready we are now. 


So! If you cant fix stupid, you wont have any better luck on the insanity! And that, sadly will cost lives. 


Robie


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## LincTex

Zeev_Zwaard said:


> Any container approaching an American port could be carrying a big old nuke.


Do a search for the " Club-K Container Missile System "


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## Tacitus

LincTex said:


> Do a search for the " Club-K Container Missile System "


Is that a search I want to do while logged in to Google? Or even with an exposed IP address?


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## lotsoflead

I spent the first twelve yrs of my life with no power and when you've never had it, you don't miss it, but you learn how to live without it when necessary, the only running water we had when I was kid was the creek out back.
Now I spend most of the summer and a couple weeks in the winter without power, TV ect. we do have a small generator up there that comes on once a day to fill the water tank for toilets, showers. we could even turn that to gravity feed if necessary. You'd be surprised at much more relaxed a person can be when not hearing all the garbage and propaganda that's going on in the world.


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## LincTex

Tacitus said:


> Is that a search I want to do while logged in to Google? Or even with an exposed IP address?


Try just " Club-K Container "

I seriously doubt you will be on any lists from searching it.


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