# Electric power rates to double



## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

The EPA at the insistance of the current administration has implemented very tough coal regulations to take affect Jan 1, 2014. Because of this the power companies will be closing numerous coal fired power plants in the Northeast portion on the US. Because of this your power rates will double. Are you prepared for this.

These rate increases will hit the Northeast harder then the other areas of the country because the majority of the power is produced by coal.


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## mamabear2012 (Mar 8, 2012)

I can barely handle our electric bill now! Can't imagine it going up double. Guess I better start adding tons of candles and extra fire wood to my preps.


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## jungatheart (Feb 2, 2010)

But, but it's for the children.....


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

*HIJACK WARNING!!!* 

mamabear, Do you have any regulations for wood burning in the DC area?


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## mamabear2012 (Mar 8, 2012)

Thankfully I'm not directly in DC.... gonna have to check on that! Oh no!


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Well ... It is not like he didn't tell us he was going to do it. :rant:

Promise kept ...


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

I am sure doubling the electric rates will help the econemy grow and stabilize.


Sarcasticly speaking


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

:nuts:If course, we (the U. S.) have lots of coal (and coal mines and miners). Why not just screw up the economy even more.:gaah:


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

we need to keep the 1% in the 1%. after all money IS losing its value and they need it more than we do. we're use to doing without but not them.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

That is the standard liberal way to do things, don't bother to check on the whole result , just zealously ram their "perfect "new save the _______ program of the day in.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

*Andi said:


> Well ... It is not like he didn't tell us he was going to do it. :rant:
> 
> Promise kept ...


Yeah, of all the promises made, THIS is the one he keeps. 

I can think of a few promises I would rather he had kept... like a lower unemployment rate....


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Playing Devil's advocate here.
The energy industry has had sufficient time to plan for this change. Have they used this time wisely developing alternatives? Is there some sort of assistance available via tax breaks to off set the cost of the new technology needed to keep the air and water clean? Is their an alternative field to train existing coal workers & miners for when the coal demand falls?
The biggest (loaded) question is, is there an incentive to develop an alternative power production system? Is the cost of retrofitting older plants higher than building newer plants or alternate energy plants? Is it better for the industry to shut down the old plants and use the laws of supply and demand to rake in the same profit from less energy?


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I read we're producing oil to send overseas to other countries; maybe that's what will be done with coal??


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

JayJay said:


> I read we're producing oil to send overseas to other countries; maybe that's what will be done with coal??


True. Domestic oil production is higher than ever. Just not being sold domestically. In turn, our prices stay high and the corps stay rich.


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## TopTop (Nov 11, 2011)

Retrofitting an existing coal plant to a new fuel is not viable. Basically you destroy what's there & build a new facility. That takes years & beaucoup $$$$. And that is just for the planning & permitting process. Currently there are 105 coal & one oil plant, something like 330 units planned for shutdown. Plans to replace them are in flux because of the economy. Our coal miners will be ok, since China will be buying all they can produce. In fact you might want to look at investing a little in coal stocks. Apparently burning coal here contributes to Global Climate Change, shipping it halfway around the globe & burning it there does not because, well, China is not on the planet. If they wanted to improve & upgrade the precipitators, maybe that would have been a good use for the stimulus $$$ instead of using it for political payoffs & Solyndra type debacles.


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## Erick3758 (Aug 9, 2011)

H The goudy station or Aes westover did away with them when we put the bag house in service.we used lime and ammonia for Sulfer and nox.the businesses don't care about the state.its business .its all about profit.the plant on Cayuga lake is done jan 16 th 2013


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## Erick3758 (Aug 9, 2011)

Shipping coal to china has really helped the coal miners out for a long time.i will be happy when more natural gas makes its way to the open market.my job will pick up as the price increases.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

ContinualHarvest said:


> True. Domestic oil production is higher than ever. Just not being sold domestically. In turn, our prices stay high and the corps stay rich.


Um, no. What would you do if you saw that gasoline was selling for $1 less per gallon at a station 2 miles from your house compared to the higher priced gasoline sold at the station on your block?

The same thing happens with oil prices. If oil traders can buy oil cheaper in the US than what is the market price in France, how do you think that they could make money from this knowledge?


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

Yeah some research first. Not one drop of Alaskan crude oil has been exported since 2004. Now for the other areas I can not speak but to say it goes elsewhere is crazy. Oh and the time frame for the exporting of Alaska crude oil was 1996 to 2004.... hmmm who was president when they started exporting?

The thing that needs to happen is to get rid of the speculators and let the real price of oil come through. Speculators are what is hurting energy prices. There should be no speculation on energy in this country. That and the fact that most of our imported oil comes from South America should have no effect on the price of OPEC oil since we barely get any there.

I have seen reports that we really have more oil than we are led to believe, only that the tree huggers work to stop the drilling.

Take ANWR for instance, it is a very beautiful place and the wildlife does just fine around Prudhoe Bay (i.e. bear cages on the outside of the building doors like this one http://www.panoramio.com/photo/4672126 ) but the tree huggers stopped the drilling. If you hurt the wildlife population then bears would die off and you would not have a need for cages like this. Caribou and Musk Ox regularly cross under the pipeline in their migrations. It is not the most cost effective way to move oil but it is the safest. On the other hand, if you were to ship via train or truck, you would have a greater problem with animal deaths and collision, not to mention the roads that would be needed that would scar the landscape for a long time after abandonment.

Take a 6 foot by 10 foot rug and throw a quarter in the corner of it. That quarter represents the area that they would like to drill in while the rug represents the ANWR. Drilling can be done and in an environmentally sound manner. Just because you poke a hole in the ground, does not mean that you destroy the entire area. If that were true, water wells would be outlawed.

Yes I have been to Alaska, spent 9 years there. Loved it and would go back if it did not cost so much to come visit family in the lower 48.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

cnsper said:


> The thing that needs to happen is to get rid of the speculators and let the real price of oil come through. Speculators are what is hurting energy prices. There should be no speculation on energy in this country. That and the fact that most of our imported oil comes from South America should have no effect on the price of OPEC oil since we barely get any there.


You had me except for this.

Traders bet their money on their future predictions of the price of oil. There's nothing wrong with that since it's a good way for large consumers to hedge price risk. Probably the most famous example of this was Southwest Airlines, who saved a mint by locking in relatively low fuel prices for about 1.5 years when prices spiked. Their jet fuel price was more than 25% below the then market price and the price of their competitors.

BTW the easiest way to remove volatility from oil prices is to require the holders of oil contracts to take delivery on all contracts bought within 30 days of the contract expiration date.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

cnsper said:


> The thing that needs to happen is to get rid of the speculators and let the real price of oil come through. Speculators are what is hurting energy prices.


If you step back and think about this you'll see that what you're saying doesn't make any sense.

The price of oil, or any good, is determined by how much demand there is for the good in relation to available supply. Speculators don't USE oil, or any good, they buy and sell in order to benefit from the inefficiencies of the market, the primary inefficiency is of time lag between seller and buyer, that is the ultimate buyer of the good not being in the market at the exact moment when the seller is offering. Speculators provide liquidity and they capture some value from inefficiently operating markets.

Let's look at another market to illustrate the role of speculators. Real estate. If the only people permitted to buy residential real estate were ultimate home buyers, then people who bought to fix-up and flip, people who bought to rent out the property, etc would be ineligible to buy. This would result in fewer buyers being in the market and the seller having to wait for a lot longer for the eventual buyer to show up.

Speculators provide liquidity to the market and they profit by making the transactions of the market more efficient. If you knocked them out of the market the efficiency of the market would decrease and you'd be no better off in terms of capturing more value for your good and you'd have to be in the market for a longer period of time in order to find your counterparty.

Speculators in oil have to eventually sell their oil to someone who is going to use it and when the time comes for them to sell they'll find themselves offering their oil for sale alongside of the organizations and countries which actually pump oil of the ground, thus adding supply to the market at that precise moment and depressing the price.

Here's the important point - speculators don't drive up demand, and thus price, because they aren't actually intending to use what they buy. When time comes to sell they are actually putting more oil into the market than is coming from the oil producers and thus lowering the price from where it would be.



> There should be no speculation on energy in this country


.

Why would anyone purposely set out to create inefficiency? I get why liberals do that, because they're economic illiterates, but normal people?


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

I believe you; but this was the news last winter and our electricity bill was not effected.
Hope that stays true this year. We heat with propane.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

goshengirl said:


> Yeah, of all the promises made, THIS is the one he keeps.
> 
> No, no, no!! NOT TRUE!! Remember this???
> 
> ...


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

Great, I have a hard enough time keeping my electric on...


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