# Gold manipulation?



## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

It seems everything is rigged! This pisses me off....

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...al-bank-manipulation-says-gata-154049120.html


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Of course it is manipulated and you are surprised?
db you gotta get out more!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

db2469 said:


> It seems everything is rigged! This pisses me off....
> 
> http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...al-bank-manipulation-says-gata-154049120.html


It's a weird situation. The Fed is deliberately destroying the dollar but they're also manipulating the gold price to preserve the illusion that the dollar has value. I read someone today who said that the US government has secretly sold all its gold as a way to prop up the dollar.

There's also this story:

http://silverdoctors.com/force-maje...ll-along-comex-will-default-in-the-next-week/

FORCE MAJEURE WAS THE END GAME ALL ALONG, COMEX WILL DEFAULT IN THE NEXT WEEK!

The COMEX will default in the next week or several weeks and people will be "settled" with Dollars, no more metal will be delivered! So, knowing that "game over" has arrived, they are dumping a massive volume of paper contracts with impunity to push the metals prices as low as possible before the "default". This way the "shorts" do not have to and will not be "covered" when "supply" cannot be obtained because of "an act of God". They will be settled in cash (at a profit no less) because these "unforeseen" disruptions in supply. "Who could have seen it coming?" will be the mantra. I would suspect that banking stress and "bail ins" will also become prevalent globally. The pricing structure" will now push any and all physical sellers away from the markets and the "door" to safety is effectively being shut. Either you own metal or you don't.

After the closure of the COMEX and LBMA doors there will be no availability and "price" will be meaningless. Your ability to protect yourself is right now for all intents and purposes being eliminated.

Submitted By Bill Holter, Miles Franklin Ltd,:

Last week Barrick Resources announced the postponement of their giant Pascua Lama mine. This was to be one of the worlds largest mines and is now tied up in litigation over true ownership as it appears to show that Barrick does not have clear title. The probale reserves were nearly 18 million ounces of Gold and almost 700 million ounces of Silver. Work on this mine was completely ceased last Wednesday.

"Last Wednesday" was also an important day for the Kennecott copper mine in Utah, the ground started to shift more rapidly prior to this weekend's landslide. They knew this was coming as they closed the visitor center on April 1st and had all equipment and personel out of harms way. This mine produces some 400,000 ounces of Gold and over 3 million ounces of Silver as a by product of copper, this is the largest copper mine on the planet. Have you heard even a peep out of the mainstream media on this on? I didn't think so.

Is it not strange that these two events came to a head last Wednesday? The same day that out of nowhere Gold reversed from being up and give up $40? And then of course there was Friday with $85 and another $75 this morning. Gold is now down $200 per ounce in just over 3 trading days. Between these two projects, one not coming online and the other going off line, a VERY significant amount of production is not going to happen. Does this make sense? Did you not learn in school that "less" supply meant higher prices? In the real world?

We don't live in "the real world", we live in a world where everything financial is manipulated. Here is what I see happening. They knew that this mine was going to collapse and the production would stop. Then the ruling on the Pascua Lama mine was sent down. Last Thursday president Obama met with 15 heads of the biggest banks and brokers in the country, THIS was discussed as sure as the Sun came up this morning: we have hit the bottom of the barrel! Reserves that could be fed into the market are and have dried up at the same time that production has dropped and future production delayed. The paper game is blowing up &#8230;RIGHT NOW and the topic of discussion at the White House was about "how it would play out".
The COMEX will default in the next week or several weeks and people will be "settled" with Dollars, no more metal will be delivered! So, knowing that "game over" has arrived, they are dumping a massive volume of paper contracts with impunity to push the metals prices as low as possible before the "default". This way the "shorts" do not have to and will not be "covered" when "supply" cannot be obtained because of "an act of God". They will be settled in cash (at a profit no less) because these "unforeseen" disruptions in supply. "Who could have seen it coming?" will be the mantra. I would suspect that banking stress and "bail ins" will also become prevalent globally. The pricing structure" will now push any and all physical sellers away from the markets and the "door" to safety is effectively being shut. Either you own metal or you don't.

I tried to "be nice" in my piece from last night talking to those who worry about price. What is now happening is exactly what I spoke of, you must count ounces because "availability" is going away right here and right now! After the closure of the COMEX and LBMA doors there will be no availability and "price" will be meaningless. Your ability to protect yourself is right now for all intents and purposes being eliminated.

We received a few (very few) angry letters from customers who say that Jim Sinclair, Mr. Sprott and Embry, James Turk and others including myself are and were wrong. That we should hang our heads in shame and that we are nothing more than charlatans hawking Gold and Silver. We will soon, very soon see just how right or wrong we really are. What is happening right now is very clear to me, what I don't understand is how anyone could miss this as it has all been laid out for you and dropped in your e-box to see (for years now), understand and prepare for. Life, all of life as we knew it is about to change forever. Hopefully you understood this and have already prepared for it!
Regards, Bill H.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

hiwall said:


> Of course it is manipulated and you are surprised?
> db you gotta get out more!


I guess the cynicism that has been taking over my psyche the last few years is now complete...it appears you can trust virtually no one!


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

We can all only hope this story's true. If COMEX defaults on their obligations and the derivatives go bust, no amount of propping up/bailing out will matter. If the metal aint there, none of that will matter. The real question will be what effect could this have on the value of said FRN? It could possibly be none. If this market dried up, which was all paper bs in the first place, it could theoretically disappear with very little repercussions on anything else. Assumedly it could drive the price up, but that would still be subject to manipulation somehow anyway.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> I guess the cynicism that has been taking over my psyche the last few years is now complete...it appears you can trust virtually no one!


Not true! You can trust us.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

This sum's it up!

"We don’t live in “the real world”, we live in a world where everything financial is manipulated.

Hail Ragnar!


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Money can still be made if the root agenda can be understood and then invest with that understanding. Bills may have it right, that the markets are being manipulated to protect the dollar. The video interviewing Harry Dent from FutureMoneytrends.com needs to seen date April 12 2013 nails everything that has happen (youtube). I sorry that I can not post it here (don't know how to do it). Harry Dent said that gold and silver will dump to protect the dollar and that deflation will result.


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## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

Tweto said:


> Money can still be made if the root agenda can be understood and then invest with that understanding. Bills may have it right, that the markets are being manipulated to protect the dollar. The video interviewing Harry Dent from VisionVictory needs to seen date April 12 2013 nails everything that has happen (youtube). I sorry that I can not post it here (don't know how to do it). Harry Dent said that gold and silver will dump to protect the dollar and that deflation will result.







If I did it right, above is the link for the interview on YouTube. It's a 24 min clip which leads off with some advertising. I enjoyed it and took some information away that I'll use as I continue to watch economic signs. I confess I have always approached the economic crisis as being inflationary much like the hyperinflation of Germany before WWII. This interview provides a glimpse of a deflationary economic crisis and is very interesting. What I take from this is an alternative outlook for PM's and the need to consider perpetration that deals with a deflationary collapse as a backup to prepping for an inflationary collapse. If you don't watch the feed, he's predicting a crisis which causes deflation in 2014 or by early 2015.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

There will be evidence of deflation and inflation at the same time. We'll have hyperinflation because of all the money printing. At the same time, the economy is slowing down or deflating due to obamacare and increased government regulations.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

BillS, 

Right!

Higher prices for food and energy, lower prices for the bigger fixed assets like homes, cars, and anything that requires most people to borrow money. That has been the trend for a while now, as consumers are hit harder by the depression and cannot afford to borrow more money, while banks are averse to lending to poor credit risks. Odd that they didn't figure that last one out before it bit 'em in the butt, huh? 

The Fed keeps interest rates near zero and prints money to stave off deflation, but deflation (decreased money supply due to debt being destroyed) is still winning in many areas. The Fed's printed money has been going into stocks and commodities, but with banks getting stresses, that money is coming out to cover their problems (sovereign bonds going sour). We are still left with high food prices and comparatively high energy prices. 

As fiat currencies are diluted even more, I believe that real goods will cost more. The US imports too many manufactured goods so that will cause pain for consumers. 

I think what Harry Dent is saying is mostly true, but can be very misleading to the average consumer, mostly because of the DEFINITIONS of inflation and deflation. Those terms, as Harry is using them, refer to increases or decreases in the money supply, NOT PRICES. It is entirely possible to have DEFLATION (a decreased money supply due to less credit being created) at the same time that the prices of goods are going up and unemployment remains high. That is classic "stagflation", a stagnant economy with rising prices.

It is the worst of all worlds for retirees--little or no interest income from savings, a fixed retirement income, rising prices on consumables and health care, few jobs available, and poor wages.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

Absolutely dead on BillS

What is interesting, if you own a home in Atlanta that is between $150,000-$499,000 you can sell it tomorrow in a bidding war... No supply... Go $100 up... Zip zero, no interest and a ton of inventory... 

So here I am seeing mixed signals of inflation - lower/mid price houses are going up in value... Higher priced homes are flying down - I know of a house on the market - owner payed $825,000 - 3 weeks ago hit 90 days on market - lowered price from $725,000 to $499,000... 5 visits this week. Previous, zero looks.


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## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

BillS said:


> There will be evidence of deflation and inflation at the same time. We'll have hyperinflation because of all the money printing. At the same time, the economy is slowing down or deflating due to obamacare and increased government regulations.


Excellent Point BillS! What troubled me the most about the Harry Dent interview is the appearance of both Inflation (price) and deflation (economy) at the same time. This seemed to me to be inconsistent with the message he was trying to deliver. So to this end I started doing some research on inflation (prices), deflation (economy) and how these may correlate to the price of gold and silver that was referred to in his video.

In gathering historical inflation, deflation and PM prices I found a web site called InflationData.Com which provides this data along with artricles related to the economy, inflation and deflation. In November 2008, Tim McMahon (somehow responsible for the website) wrote about the condition of price inflation and economy deflation. In part he said:

"But in the 1970′s we saw something unusual, inflation and a recession at the same time. This was so unusual that they coined a new term "stagflation" to describe the situation.

Basically, what happened in stagflation was that there was plenty of liquidity in the system and people were spending money as quickly as they got it because prices were going up quickly, (price inflation).

But the rapid price increases in the price of oil caused many businesses to become unprofitable, so they began laying off workers. This threw the economy into a tailspin as unemployment grew in spite of an increase in the money supply.

The end result was stagflation, i.e. price inflation and high unemployment and a disastrous economy."

If you compare inflationary (price) years (today) with deflationary (economy) years (1921 - 1933) you see that today our economy is stagnant with the inflation number averaging only 2.5% over the past ten years. Presuming that you could believe the numbers that are put out by the government. Whereas in the deflationary years of the 20's leading up to the "New Deal" of FDR and the gold seizure of May 1933, the average in that 10 year period was 3.18% fueled by devistating deflationary spirals of -5.09%, -10.30% and -8.94% in 1931, 1932 and 1933 respectively.

My take on this is that:

1. Machinist, Invision, BillS and others on the forum have a better handle on the economy that Ben and others at the Fed and unfortunaly in our Government.
2. We are in an economic recession even though artifical controls by the Fed and juggling the books in Washington are trying to make this look like a "slow" economy not a stagnant recessionary economy.
3. In prepping we have to prepare for both recession, possibly depression as well as inflation approacing hyperinflation. As was stated in the Dent interview America has two distinct economic groups. We have the recessionary "baby boomers" who are down sizing and cutting back and we have the inflationary "new generation" the Occupy Wall Street group who are high cost. This high cost way of doing things is what makes up Washington today as they spend spend spend, increase costs but massage the numbers so that it doesn't look like inflation.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

haley4217 said:


> My take on this is that:
> 
> 1. Machinist, Invision, BillS and others on the forum have a better handle on the economy that Ben and others at the Fed and unfortunaly in our Government.
> 
> 3. In prepping we have to prepare for both recession, possibly depression as well as inflation approacing hyperinflation. As was stated in the Dent interview America has two distinct economic groups. We have the recessionary "baby boomers" who are down sizing and cutting back and we have the inflationary "new generation" the Occupy Wall Street group who are high cost. This high cost way of doing things is what makes up Washington today as they spend spend spend, increase costs but massage the numbers so that it doesn't look like inflation.


Thanks for the compliment...

As to #3, if we ever get out of this economic mess unscathed - which I don't think we will - in 10-20 years after we will look back and call it a depression, not a recession. So at this point prepping shouldn't be about a recession - it should be about surviving this depression as best, but expect far worse economically speaking on a global scale.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think we're going to have a dollar collapse in the next year or two. I expect a complete economic collapse to occur at that time. I think the sun is setting on America and after that sunset it will never be the same. I expect that those of us who survive will find ourselves living in a police state when the dust settles.

I imagine what a restaurant might look like after the dollar collapse. I can imagine them having guards with AK-47's at the door. The place is lit by candle light. People have to pay in silver. They're serving a buffet: Mac & Cheese, baked beans, rice, spam, canned soup, and canned fruit.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

haley4217,

Thanks for the kind words! I can't claim any original thoughts on the matter, so I try to read and listen to those who seem to have it figured out. I have lived through a period that I think will be seen as comparable, though. 

Because I am old enough, I can remember 1971 through 1981 pretty well. Saw Nixon on TV about why he was taking us off the gold standard. We saw prices begin to rise, then in late 1973 my wife saw a newspaper that said "Oil Embargo". We saw the ensuing lines and fist fights at gas pumps, and saw unemployment soar to 24.6% in Kokomo, Howard County, Indiana. I worked at Delco Electronics Div. of GM and watched 2,200 of their 10,000 employees get laid off in ONE DAY. I kept my job by the slimmest of margins. Things picked up, and most thought the worst was over.

I didn't think so, after listening to an investor friend of mine. In 1977, he left GM with jeers from our co-workers, saying he was foolish to go to a much smaller electronics company in Idaho (Hewlett Packard) and I transferred within GM to an aluminum foundry division that was booming due to demand for fuel efficient cars. Based on what I read in The Mother Earth News, we bought 45 acres in the sticks and started working as a hobby farm with draft horses. I started a woodworking shop with a partner. 

By 1979, interest rates were going through the roof, but we had a mortgage locked in at low rates, as recommended by my investor friend. My job was secure and the hobby farm and part time woodworking kept us in good shape financially. Inflation was running 15% or more a year, maybe 20%+. We didn't need to buy much because we grew our own food and used firewood for heat. I logged the woods, got the local sawmill to cut lumber, and built what buildings we needed. We hardly noticed the effects of higher prices. My wife made clothes for the kids, and we lived well. 

I don't think this next round will be so easy, but I think the prescription for how to deal with it should be about the same. Cut expenses to the bone, especially the predictable ones by producing your own, or arranging to not need some things. Invest in PRODUCTIVE things. And work your butt off at making it all happen.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

machinist said:


> haley4217,
> 
> Thanks for the kind words! I can't claim any original thoughts on the matter, so I try to read and listen to those who seem to have it figured out. I have lived through a period that I think will be seen as comparable, though.
> 
> ...


The thing is your right for the most part... If we do see a 2nd depression / recession so close to what we are still in, there are two main factors 1) population growth - while in the 70-80s you lived a more rural life and a time with less technology. I grew up in this era as a child, teen. I can remember my dad putting roofs on the apartments he owned with my assistance of a part time person. You don't see that today... 2) IMO - the fed has shot their guns and are out of ammo... I think keeping the inflation numbers down is to "calm" the masses... Yet, when I bought a 24 slice Kraft American cheese this weekend for $4.99 on SALE. There is inflation higher than reported... If more people start waking up, I think we could see a collapse speed up.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Gold is inching upward again today, but silver has lost a little. I think this smackdown effort will continue in an attempt to make the dollar look better as long as possible. If that is true, then a real breakout in the metals would mean TPTB have lost control of their prices, and we have a bigger problem. 

Looks to me like that would be a "tell".


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You know prices are fixed when there are shortages. At true market price, sellers will equal buyers. When prices are artificially low everybody wants to buy and nobody wants to sell. I plan on keeping my silver until prices explode or I need the money.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

I went out this weekend to 5 different places local that I can buy American Eagles - My best place is a buck 50 over spot... my worst is 2.50 over spot... Zero available... shelves looked like a Wal-Mart Ammo Shelf... So I just placed an order for 20 ounces from Gainesville... so we will see how that works out... 

Markets are definitely being manipulated... 
- Japan devalue Yen - hitting 100:1 value. 
- IMF is pushing the EuroZone to lower interest rates to .5, and release more Euros into the market
- Germany's economy is slowing down too... 
- Rumors of Italy & Cyprus selling Gold Stocks.
- QE3 continuing to balloon equity stocks.

All 5 of these bullets will drive the precieved value of USD up, up, and away... while driving Gold values down down down... So... let it fall, Hell I would love to see it back at $400-800 per ounce, cause I would make a crazy buy...

Half way through Aftershock (started it and a book on Kaynes/Hayek yesterday)... couldn't agree more with the multiple-bubble theory... But IMO, nothing in it so far is an eye opener... I will see what the second have of the book gives me,


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## haley4217 (Dec 16, 2012)

invision said:


> I went out this weekend to 5 different places local that I can buy American Eagles - My best place is a buck 50 over spot... my worst is 2.50 over spot... Zero available... shelves looked like a Wal-Mart Ammo Shelf... So I just placed an order for 20 ounces from Gainesville... so we will see how that works


Following from Bloomberg yesterday:

"The U.S. Mint ran out of its smallest American Eagle gold coin after demand surged following the biggest drop in futures in three decades.
Sales of the coins weighing a 10th of an ounce were suspended after demand more than doubled in 2013 from a year earlier, the Mint said yesterday in a statement. Total sales of American Eagles in April have almost tripled from a month earlier, according to its website.

Shoppers from India to China and Japan joined consumers in the U.S. and Australia in the rush to buy jewelry and coins after futures slumped 13 percent in two days through April 15. Indian buyers flocked to stores and banks for ornaments, coins and bars as purchases from the Perth Mint in Australia doubled and retail sales across China tripled."

Looks like other's had the same plans as Invision. Interesting that the smaller coins are in greater demand, certainly lower priced but also easier to "spend" after TSHTF.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Have not been able to find any, anywhere local


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I can get em, but ASE's are $7 over spot, Maples $6, only rounds are $1.50 over. A few months ago I was unhappy when it was $3-$5 over, sheesh!
Too much more of this, and decoupling is official? I'm just too geeked out to buy online with a cc.
Not that I have any anyways, ya know, boating accidents and all.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

Personally, I believe the PM markets are being manipulated due to the disconnect between the 'official' price and the availiability of physical PMs. I've never seen the juice so high on physical while the PM markets are falling or holding steady.

If you think about it from an economic perspective, falling prices *should* spur demand as has happened. But when the current demand exceeds the available stock, as is the case currently, prices should rise. And the prices should rise substantially to create an equilibrium between supply and demand. That isn't happening. In fact, silver prices seem to be getting hammered every afternoon after going up in the mornings. When you factor in that some of the smaller commodity exchanges are refusing to give delivery on physical and settling trades in cash, it becomes obvious that prices are being controlled. It can't continue for long, or there will be no market since owners of physical will perceive the market inefficiency and refuse to sell at the spot price.


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Immolatus said:


> I can get em, but ASE's are $7 over spot, Maples $6, only rounds are $1.50 over. A few months ago I was unhappy when it was $3-$5 over, sheesh!
> Too much more of this, and decoupling is official? I'm just too geeked out to buy online with a cc.
> Not that I have any anyways, ya know, boating accidents and all.


Ah yes, the sunken treasure...


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