# Alternative building methods



## pakrat (Oct 19, 2014)

Hello all. Long time lurker, first time poster here. I wanted to get y'all's opinion on alternative/recycled building materials. The wife and I, Lord willing, should be debt-free in about a year and a half. At that point we want to find a piece of land here in Arkansas and build our dream home. Our dream home consists of a smaller three bedroom two bath cabin-ish house on 3 to 5 acres that is PAID FOR. I, like my father before me, am quite comfortable with remodeling, carpentry, siding, etc. Recently I have been reading a lot about alternative building materials. I want something that is easy to do myself, but also "inexpensive". Some of the methods I have looked at are:

-Concrete block and mortar
-Tumbled stone block with Gorilla Glue or concrete adhesive
-Stacked Quickrete
-Arched steel building
-Landscape timbers
-4x6s (log cabin style)
-Shipping containers
-Cordwood
-Pallets
-Chicken house trusses

Any thoughts or other ideas would be greatly appreciated. I'm not looking for a bombproof home, however, I would like it to be at least as strong as conventional dimensional lumber. Mainly looking for ideas for exterior walls. Whatever I decide will probably be built around the chicken house trusses, because they are a dime a dozen around here. More than likely it will be built on a slab also. 










Rob

"Let's roll."

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I think any of those would work for you. If it were me, I would start watching your local Craigslist and see what you can come up with.

I once met a man who was building a home from materials he was finding for free on Craigslist. That said, I cannot imagine that you start out needing concrete blocks for your basement, and on that day you find them for free or cheap on Craigslist. I believe a situation like that means having a location where you can start collecting items. I know that would mean an ugly mess for some people. I always thought if I was going to build somewhere, the first thing I would build would be a garage or storage building where I could keep materials and tools.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

pakrat said:


> ...piece of land here in Arkansas and build our dream home...alternative building materials. ...


I'd check with the local building laws and learn what materials they would accept.


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## Coastal (Jun 27, 2013)

weedygarden said:


> I think any of those would work for you. If it were me, I would start watching your local Craigslist and see what you can come up with.
> 
> I once met a man who was building a home from materials he was finding for free on Craigslist. That said, I cannot imagine that you start out needing concrete blocks for your basement, and on that day you find them for free or cheap on Craigslist. I believe a situation like that means having a location where you can start collecting items. I know that would mean an ugly mess for some people. I always thought if I was going to build somewhere, the first thing I would build would be a garage or storage building where I could keep materials and tools.


I agree, i just found a complete brand new timber frame house for $12k locally. This house would have retailed for about $60k through a timber frame company, not including building it.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Start doing some net searches, the current lame stream balloon frame method,
is not sustainable, that is why it is so popular. a home needs to be suited to its location and sight. http://www.shelterpub.com/_shelter/shelter_book.html
look into this guys stuff


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Cob houses look interesting - clay is an abundant resource in my area, so that's one reason for my interest. A combination of cob and cordwood is something I've also looked into. But I've no personal experience with either one.

I'd hoped to work on a cob shed this summer with my son, but time got away from us.... I do think practicing some of these alternative building methods with a small structure like a shed would be a good idea.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Ive been researching building with cob, once I get my place Im going to build a small chicken house with cob and maybe a doghouse too and see how it goes. 

strawbale/cob/earthship combo homes look interesting too..check out all options...


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Check the internet and see how the Swedes build their Saunas, this method could also be used to build a house.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Cordwood/concrete looks interesting


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Building with hay/straw bales is something I've wanted to try for a while, the house frame is built around stacked bales and is supposed to be about as effecient as you can get as far as heat loss/transfer goes.


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## pakrat (Oct 19, 2014)

I'm really liking the look of the tumbled stone. I watched a video on YouTube where a guy build a privacy wall from cinder blocks and used gorilla glue. I'm just not willing to take one guy's word for it. Plus, it's probably one of the more expensive options.

All in all, if you factor in cost of material and labor, I think the shipping containers probably come out on top. And if you had to you could live in one almost immediately.

How does the straw bale hold up in a wet/humid environment?




Rob

"Let's roll."

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Straw bales used in building are sealed up with stucco or something similar.


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## pakrat (Oct 19, 2014)

Right. I understand the process. But what about 20, 50 years down the road when a crack forms and moisture gets in? It just seems to me that it would be better suited for a dry climate.




Rob

"Let's roll."

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Strawbale buildings like any other method require maintenance, one would want to do a lot of research before building one in a high moisture climate, most "natural" building methods don't use much cement because it is not very flexible. There are a lot of non balloon frame buildings in England, that have been standing for centuries. The current approach of designing the "dream house", then fitting it on to the site needs to be re thought if you want a really well suited house. there is a lot of information out there on "alterative" (should read traditional or historically proven) building methods. some of it conflicts but lots of it agrees with others.


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## pakrat (Oct 19, 2014)

I thought that's what I was doing. LOL The main requirement for my dream house is "paid for". Everything else is yet to be decided. I have lived in Arkansas all my life so I am very familiar with the climate. That is one reason I'm not liking the straw bale concept. And this post is part of the research process. Just trying to get an idea of what would work. I'm really liking the idea of the shipping containers. Seems like it would be fairly easy to add on in the future and you could add any of the façades you wanted at a later date. I could do all of the additional work myself. A green roof should help with insulation and also offer a bit of camouflage from above.




Rob

"Let's roll."

ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

In regards to shipping containers they can obviously work. Things to consider are - 
How and where are you going to run the plumbing? Does it freeze where you are?
How and where are you going to run the electrical?
Are you good with a cutting torch and welder?
There is zero ventilation so that will have to be planned for and added.
How are you installing your doors and windows?
Do you have to worry about them rusting through?
You are starting out with zero insulation so what is the plan for that?
Are you going to put up stud walls and ceilings?
Will the county allow you to live in one?
When thinking of cost add everything you have to do to make it livable to the original purchase price.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

if you are thinking Sea cans, light clay insulation might be a good fit. Cord wood and concrete are not a very good mix in variable moisture climates, have you been to the permies site? http://www.permies.com/ there is a pretty good thread of a sae can build on it


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## Fossil (Jan 10, 2013)

Built and lived in a 1,200 square foot cordwood home. I would not recommend that method unless there is no other option. EXTREMELY labor intensive, and I did not see it as being all that econimical after all was said and done. That bit about lime and sawdust between the two rows of mortar to dissuade bugs is flat nonsense. Large roof overhangs are essential to keep rain off the ends-minimum of four feet-I went six and put a porch round the whole thing. All alternate methods require high energy to build but some seem more satisfying when done. Strawbale or traditional log would be my choice if I ever did it again. And that would be very dependent upon location. As a design I am fond of a version of the hogan.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Fossil said:


> Built and lived in a 1,200 square foot cordwood home. I would not recommend that method unless there is no other option. EXTREMELY labor intensive, and I did not see it as being all that econimical after all was said and done. That bit about lime and sawdust between the two rows of mortar to dissuade bugs is flat nonsense. Large roof overhangs are essential to keep rain off the ends-minimum of four feet-I went six and put a porch round the whole thing. All alternate methods require high energy to build but some seem more satisfying when done. Strawbale or traditional log would be my choice if I ever did it again. And that would be very dependent upon location. As a design I am fond of a version of the hogan.


Have any problems getting your investment back when you sold the cordwood house?


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## Fossil (Jan 10, 2013)

No, I came out okay on selling it, but then i am not greedy either. And I was extremely up front with the folks about things. It was an interesting experience but i would never do it again.


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

TheLazyL said:


> I'd check with the local building laws and learn what materials they would accept.


ditto guy .... I don't know why some people think that they build anything they want .... there's almost always some kind of zoning & building standards involved when you talk homes ...


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## IlliniWarrior (Nov 30, 2010)

pakrat said:


> I'm really liking the look of the tumbled stone. I watched a video on YouTube where a guy build a privacy wall from cinder blocks and used gorilla glue. I'm just not willing to take one guy's word for it. Plus, it's probably one of the more expensive options.
> 
> All in all, if you factor in cost of material and labor, I think the shipping containers probably come out on top. And if you had to you could live in one almost immediately.
> 
> ...


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

IlliniWarrior said:


> ditto guy .... I don't know why some people think that they build anything they want .... there's almost always some kind of zoning & building standards involved when you talk homes ...


You'd be surprised.-I was. I traveled for ten years building mall stores. Occasionally, we were invited to build homes and other things in some states. I couldn't believe how many places don't have building codes, inspections, and the like. After the hurricane in New Orleans, we went to Alabama to do some work. I went to the building dept to check their local codes for home building -No codes, no rules, no nothing. I was shocked. I kind of thought they were kidding and would come bite me afterwards. Nope. It's just stupid.

I had the same experience in a county in Tennessee, North Carolina, and Mississippi. I had a guy tell me that it's like the wild west, you just do what you want. Again, I say - that's stupid.

I saw a guy haul in 3' of loose fill dirt, spread it around, (not pack it, mind you) dug 8" deep footer ditches, pour concrete in the ditches, with no rebar, and then build a house on top of it. That was in Alabama. I figured in about 3 months that dirt would settle enough to crack the foundation and twist the house. I had to get the hell out of there. I couldn't compete with the prices because I actually gave prices for a home that would last. No one wanted that.

On the other hand, I do not get a permit, inspections, etc. for things I build at my home. I know what I'm doing and I give them enough money for jobs that I do. I'm not giving them money and having them come to my house. I'm not gonna build something crappy at my house.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

jeff47041 said:


> You'd be surprised.-I was. I traveled for ten years building mall stores. Occasionally, we were invited to build homes and other things in some states. I couldn't believe how many places don't have building codes, inspections, and the like. After the hurricane in New Orleans, we went to Alabama to do some work. I went to the building dept to check their local codes for home building -No codes, no rules, no nothing. I was shocked. I kind of thought they were kidding and would come bite me afterwards. Nope. It's just stupid.
> 
> I had the same experience in a county in Tennessee, North Carolina, and Mississippi. I had a guy tell me that it's like the wild west, you just do what you want. Again, I say - that's stupid.
> 
> ...


I live out in the county "no code" I'm watching some idiots build a home and completely trash the property next to me. They were laying a block foundation a couple of weeks ago when it didn't get above freezing the entire time. They are using junk material and have drug in old campers junk cars it's the biggest mess you can imagine. They left a dog tied to a tree with no shelter for a week in this weather. I see an episode of Dateline in my immediate future.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

If you are looking for interesting ideas on building materials and sustainable homes then I would like to recommend researching earthship homes. Even if that doesn't end up being something you want to do I think you will definitely appreciate some of the "out of the box" ideas on materials and building techniques.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

jeff47041 said:


> You'd be surprised.-I was. I traveled for ten years building mall stores. Occasionally, we were invited to build homes and other things in some states. I couldn't believe how many places don't have building codes, inspections, and the like. After the hurricane in New Orleans, we went to Alabama to do some work. I went to the building dept to check their local codes for home building -No codes, no rules, no nothing. I was shocked. I kind of thought they were kidding and would come bite me afterwards. Nope. It's just stupid.
> 
> I had the same experience in a county in Tennessee, North Carolina, and Mississippi. I had a guy tell me that it's like the wild west, you just do what you want. Again, I say - that's stupid.
> 
> ...


People at least have a choice whether to build a decent house or a shack, not get told by a desk jockey what they are going to build. 
If you build to code and it fails the owner or the builder is still responsible, not the code enforcer or writer. Codes are mostly based on balloon frame construction which is considered normal now, and IMO really is not a sound construction method.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

Tirediron said:


> People at least have a choice whether to build a decent house or a shack, not get told by a desk jockey what they are going to build.
> If you build to code and it fails the owner or the builder is still responsible, not the code enforcer or writer. Codes are mostly based on balloon frame construction which is considered normal now, and IMO really is not a sound construction method.


You don't find wood framing sound construction?


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Not so much that it is not sound, but that most of North American society sees it as the best if not only method, it is easy to regulate so desk jockeys like it. 
It is quick and relatively easy, ( All well built structure is well built, more from the builders attention to detail and knowledge than the actual construction method. ) 

long log has gotten a poor reputation with many people due to poor workmanship , where as a well built long log building is a very good long lasting structure. 

The term Alternative building method really gets under my skin, mostly because many of the alternative methods far predate balloon, and if done properly (often using pre industrial age materials) will last for centuries, I don't see modern balloon making it that long.


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## hashbrown (Sep 2, 2013)

Tirediron said:


> Not so much that it is not sound, but that most of North American society sees it as the best if not only method, it is easy to regulate so desk jockeys like it.
> It is quick and relatively easy, ( All well built structure is well built, more from the builders attention to detail and knowledge than the actual construction method. )
> 
> long log has gotten a poor reputation with many people due to poor workmanship , where as a well built long log building is a very good long lasting structure.
> ...


Well, I hope it makes it another 20 years or so or at least until I'm worn out.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I wouldn't be interested in using alternative materials or methods if I was building my own home right now. If I was building a bugout cottage I'd consider a lot of different things, depending on how much money I had to work with. If you don't have much money you might not have a lot of options.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

My wife REALLY wants to build a COB house at our BOL, but I would never have the time to do that!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

@Linctex maybe a pole building with lightclay infill would be an expedient answer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_clay

there are a lot better resourses out there, but wiki gives abit of an overview

A more "modern" take 
http://lightclay.org/


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

http://www.monolithic.org/homes/featured-homes/at-home-in-jasper-arkansas


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

LincTex said:


> My wife REALLY wants to build a COB house at our BOL, but I would never have the time to do that!


Slave labour... uh, I mean family and friends The nice thing with "alternative" materials is that they often are very easy for kids and less physically able people to help with. It is pretty hard to get hurt with cob, and as long as there is supervision (quality control) it can be fun and relatively fast. Depending on how one figures the labour it can be almost free, or if you figure what you would have to pay a contractor Materials are free though


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Most "alternative" methods can be sped up greatly with the addition of a bit of machinery. a couple of grain augers would really speed light clay up a bunch.


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