# Serious illness



## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Many of us prep for a serious illness in a SHTF scenario. We have the right medical reference books in our library. We have supplies, including a variety of medicines as well as lots of toilet paper, in our storage area. We read. We go over possible scenarios. We pay attention to the health of neighbors, the community, and the area. We make sure we have sanitation processes in place for clean water and septic to keep us healthy in case of an event. 

Then it happens. Something that would not be survivable in a SHTF situation.

I got food poisoning. Yes, I scrubbed the apple under running water. A few hours after I ate it I knew something was wrong. Diarrhea has a purpose so I followed the advice in my medical reference books to rest and stay hydrated - most of these illnesses subside on their own.

Not this one. It went into a bacterial infection for which I was given Bactrim from a Doc-in-the-Box in the neighboring town. The little voice in the back of my head told me that medication was going to be a problem; however, I was so ill I ignored the little voice. 

Well, I got violently ill from the Bactrim, stopped it after two days, managed to get to my primary care physician in the city who did a direct admit to the hospital. It seems the Bactrim morphed my initial bacterial infection into something called C.Diff. I have never been so seriously ill in my life!

Five days in the hospital with a cocktail of antibiotics and other meds running through my IV as well as lots of oral meds. Filled a lot of prescriptions on the way home from the hospital and, ten days later, am still chugging pills. It's going to take weeks to fully recover. I am so fortunate I was a great health going into this illness and that's what got me through it - that and an amazing medical team who was flexible enough to change meds on the fly to keep up with shifting blood work and cultures. 

The realization that something like this could easily happen in a post-SHTF situation is unsettling. I didn't get this because I didn't wash my hands. I didn't get it because we lacked good sanitation. I didn't get it because I didn't wash a piece of fruit. I got it in spite of all the healthy practices all of us try to have in place in our every day life. I got it because sometimes things like this happen. I am thankful it happened in today's world where I have an excellent chance of full recovery.

My amazing spouse had to decontaminate the entire house (two cups of bleach to one gallon of water) as well as the cars and anything else I touched. C.Diff is not something that degrades after a couple of hours. It can hang around for months if proper decontamination isn't done correctly. 

I know we have medical people on this forum. I would like to know, from their perspective, anything I could have done differently during the first part of the food poisoning to avoid the initial bacterial infection. There is no question in the admitting doctor's mind that the Bactrim caused the C.Diff. Would another antibiotic have been better? I'll get some more information from the doctor when I have a checkup in a few weeks; however, I would like to have your opinions as a baseline for future discussions with my medical team. 

Next time I'll eat a cookie instead of an apple.


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## ETXgal (Jul 12, 2014)

I am no medical person, that is for sure. But I have read about using activated charcoal for emergency situations. http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/activated-charcoal-uses-risks

http://www.livestrong.com/article/448065-health-benefits-risks-of-activated-charcoal/


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

You are right...you got it, because you got it. But the bactrim likley helped push the issue though. Your doctor didn't do anything wrong, the bactrim was a best guess of antibiotic to combat whatever organism likely caused the GI infection. It could have been giarda, cryptosporidia or a bunch of other pests. Bactrim is a good antibiotic to cover a lot of causes for travelers diarrhea. But when antibiotics upset the normal bacteria of the intestines, it is a race for the different types of bacteria to repopulate. When Clostridia difficile - which most people have in their large intestines - overpopulates and enters the small intestines is begins making toxins which cause rampant diarrhea with a very specific "barnyard" smell. In some people it will go away on its own quickly, in others it is there to stay without drastic interventions. The goal of antibiotic therapy is alway to use an antibiotic that targets the least amount of "friendlies" and is very specific for killing only the species of bacteria causing the probably. The difficult part in this is that only by taking a stool sample and growing out the offender takes anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks. Since your suffering NOW, the doctor gives you the antibiotic which hurts the majority of the bad guys but minimizes collateral damage to the good bacteria. In some cases, it results in C diff. The penicillins are the most common offender mainly because they are used so frequently. Clindamycin also gets a bad rap for it. 

Flagyl and vancomycin orally are commonly used antibiotics used to treat C. diff as they reduce the populations of C. diff but leave some of the natural bacteria intact. Probiotics are known to help because addition of new bacteria continue to fight the c. diff for space in the intestinal tract. There are other treatments for more severe cases that can only be done in the hospital setting. One that you could consider in a worst case senario is Fecal microbiota transplantation. It's more commonly referred to as a stool enema. Take one healthy stool of a family member, blend it up and in the backdoor it goes to recapture some of the normal bacteria. Its an all natural antibiotic free way to treat the situation, but you can see why this is done mainly in severe cases where pills fail.

The fecal transplantation has a very high success rate especially when done via colonoscopy or nasogastric tube (tube from the nose to the intestines) since is gets the family members bacteria higher into the intestinal tract that a true enema type procedure.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

ETXgal said:


> I am no medical person, that is for sure. But I have read about using activated charcoal for emergency situations. http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/activated-charcoal-uses-risks
> 
> http://www.livestrong.com/article/448065-health-benefits-risks-of-activated-charcoal/


almost everyone I've ever seen get activated charcoal, vomit. It is commonly used now to replace syrup of ipecac in poisoning case where you desire to bring up the stomach contents and as a backup bind anything else that sneaks past the stomach. It will bind some of the Clostridium toxin, but may not reduce the amount of c. diff growing.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Country Living said:


> I got food poisoning. Yes, I scrubbed the apple under running water. A few hours after I ate it I knew something was wrong. Diarrhea has a purpose so I followed the advice in my medical reference books to rest and stay hydrated - most of these illnesses subside on their own.
> 
> Not this one. It went into a bacterial infection for which I was given Bactrim from a Doc-in-the-Box in the neighboring town. The little voice in the back of my head told me that medication was going to be a problem; however, I was so ill I ignored the little voice.


One opportunity might have been in the treatment of the initial diarrhea. Slow it down, don't stop it, with some Immodium AD. Immediately start the BRAT diet (bananas, rice, apples, & toast). NO Gatorade, dairy, or artificial sweeteners. Immediately start Florastor.

C. Diff. Is a nasty bug & tough one to boot. I'd get me some Cavicide disinfectant to clean with.

I hope you are on the mend!


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

You could opt for a fecal transplant to treat the C. Diff! :ignore:


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm feeling much better - still tired; but, at least I don't have the painful fatigue of the past weeks. When I was released I was given prescriptions for Vancomycin, Flagyl, Xifaxam, and Welchol in addition to Potassium and Magnesium. I also (still) take a probiotic daily to help temper the effects of the Vancomycin. I'm through with the Vancomycin and Flagyl and have a few days left of the Xifaxam and Welchol. I think it's going to take weeks before my body figures out the new normal. 

Every time I was brought oral meds in the hospital I asked what it was and, if new, what it did. It's the old "trust; but, verify" thing that gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over. The nurses didn't seem to mind. The doctor took great umbrage when I asked why I was getting cholesterol meds when I didn't have a cholesterol problem. He asked me to trust him to know what was best for me. I told him I understood that and please explain to me what side benefits this medication must have to help with my situation. After a few minutes of a gentle staring contest, he told me how it would help settle my unhappy gut.

This hospital recently created a patient portal - I think most of the larger hospitals have to have a portal in place to meet some reporting guidelines - so once I was able to get a log on (an amazing feat considering I was doing this while my brain was mush from being so seriously ill) I was able to look at my blood tests as soon as they were completed. I wasn't a smartass about it; however, I think the doctor would have been most uncomfortable that I was monitoring everything they were doing to and for me so closely. It was just lucky I had my IPad with me.

I'm not sure at what point a fecal transplant would be required. I would hope as long as things are moving through (some faster than others) the bowels simply need time to get back in sync with the body. I just can't complain because I am so much better than I was even a week ago.

I'm not sure the charcoal would have worked because this stuff was in my colon within hours. Would the charcoal bind to the cooties in the intestine and escort them out?


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

tsrwivey said:


> You could opt for a fecal transplant to treat the C. Diff! :ignore:


They are working on a pill form.
No fecal material in the pill.


My wife had C Diff and wound up in the hospital for several days.
The ER doctor did not admit her just put her in for observation so the insurance company paid less and I had to pay the $75 ER visit.
Wore yet, I work for the hospital.


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

Yikes! I don't think I've ever washed an apple in my life. Maybe I better start paying attention to the warnings. Glad to hear that you went for treatment and got it.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

The two times I've seen the stool enema used, it worked well but still takes a few days to get things regular. Honestly, by that time the patient has been through so much abuse they don't think that much of the actual enema. It's more the thought and the new bond between the donor that weirds them out. The point of really bringing it up is that it is really a capable way to treat a c diff infection if there were no hospitals and no antibiotics... 

(I'm sure Country knows, but to others) One thing that hasn't been said yet is do not treat this diarrhea with drugs that will slow down g.i motility such as Imodium, narcotics, or lomotil. It will backfire and you'll end up with blowout diarrhea which is even worse.

Country, best of luck and thanks for sharing. I'm sure you are on the mend. It takes a bit of time to get the g.i system running routine though. Just hang in there.

Ps. The charcoal will bind the cytotoxins causing the inflammation and the osmotic pull of fluids into the intestines. It doesn't bind the bacteria in large numbers. And it might only be useful for those bacteria that act via toxins. Some act by invasion of the gut lining for which he charcoal would have little effect. And that's assuming you could pass it through. I had some in orange juice once and it came back up in about 10 minutes.


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## serenegold (Aug 23, 2014)

C.Diff is very contagious. It isn't killed by disinfectants normally used in homes or hospitals. In fact, if you are in a hospital, you should demand all medical personnel wash with warm or hot water and soap, because the idea is to suds up the bacteria into the suds and rinse them down the sick. Soaps also don't kill it.
There are some special things that will kill it but are not for use on skin. Ever notice the plastic containers in the hallways that look like it contains wet wipes? Some of these will kill all bacteria but aren't used for hands. Bleach will kill everything that is a bad bug for humans.
So using bleach at home is a winning idea.
Your body can sometimes cure itself over time, if you can keep hydrated enough. Sugars feed C.Diff so I'd use unsweetened liquids, and the BRAT diet is also not bad. It contains some natural sugars but not like Gatorade or sodas.
Some of the other things I have for medical emergencies are suture kits, antiseptics, bandages, QuickClot, or Hemcon strips for bleeding, antibiotics pill and gels, aspirin and Tylenol, hemostats, diarrhea meds, 2 kits for childbirth, ( hope I never have to do that one, it isn't the same as a birth coach!) burn strips and meds, Hasmat suits, masks ( N95), gloves, blood spill cleanup kits, and general first aid items.
There are more items, but I bet everyone here knows what's needed. I would also mention antibiotics can be bought legally in some places like Mexico, and Bahamas. Also keep TamiFlu and Relenza, using both together may even help with Bird flu, or H1N1. Some studies show it can lessen illness.
I take prescription meds and always have at least 3 years ahead. I also have home remedies and books to help. I have books on quilting, candle making, soap making, planting and harvesting, animal husbandry, and what animals are best for long term and less illness among them.( Like rabbit hutches above the chicken pen) 
Sorry, I rambled on. But I have been at this a long time, haven't needed much yet, except when the tornadoes devastated Alabama in 2011. I had a generator that ran my home, plenty of water stored, enough food for myself and my extended family, and plenty of fuel. It was a mini SHTF situation, that lead me to be a little more serious about not letting my stocks run too low and rotate and use what I store.


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## ETXgal (Jul 12, 2014)

I have never heard of c.diff before this thread. I was mainly thinking of scenario where you couldn't go to a doctor. I also thought you would take the activated carbon, as soon as you suspected food poisoning. Now in a grid down situation maybe someone in the medical profession could give their thoughts on that. I also wondered about probiotics. But if you can't hold anything down, that would not help at all.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Pretty much everything I was going to say was already mentioned but I will second the probiotics. Whether from fermented foods like yogurt or in pill form at the very least they should be taken whenever you take antibiotics imo. They also work as a preventative although studies are admittedly lacking on the degree to which they work for food poisoning in particular.

The only other thing I would mention is pepto-bismol, the minerals act as a mild antibiotic and have been shown to cure/prevent food poisoning and "traveler's diarrhea" while of course also relieving the symptoms. Naturally you would want to take probiotics with this as well.

Sometimes, the "purpose" of something like diarrhea, sneezing, etc is less about our bodies attempts to fight off the disease and more about the bug learning (evolutionarily) how to push our buttons to spread it's progeny


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I swear these things come in threes. My illness. Spouse had to take the dog to an emergency run to the vet. And I got stung by a %$&@ scorpion.

Just as I'm getting over being so darn sick, a scorpion decides to attack my ankle. Thank goodness I had the foresight to not only buy activated charcoal a few years ago; but, to also go ahead and pulverize one of the containers into powder. 

After I took two Benadryl and two Excedrin, I washed the bite area. Then I made a poultice by putting charcoal powder on a select-a-size paper towel and folded the paper towel so the charcoal wouldn't spill. I wet the poultice, put it on my ankle, put a baggie over it to hold in the moisture, and used an Ace bandage to gently hold everything in place. Then I sat in the little recliner with my foot on the stool and iced it for ten minutes on and ten minutes off for about an hour. The "smash your thumb" kind of pain ebbed over the course of a few hours into soreness and that went away about mid-day. 

When I first read about using activated charcoal powder to pull venom out of bites, I was a bit skeptical. Not any more. Amazing stuff. 

My sweetie saved the day by smashing the little bastard.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Bless your heart CL! Glad you are on the med. How is puppy?


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

dixiemama said:


> Bless your heart CL! Glad you are on the med. How is puppy?


This is a bit interesting in a morbid sort of way. Where I had been wide open with the runs, somehow she got stopped up so bad the acidity in her tummy was causing her a lot of stress and foaming at the mouth. Bless her little heart, she had three enemas, a barium swallow along with lots of x-rays to watch it go through her entire GI tract to check for any obstructions, and then couldn't eat for 24 hours until her tummy calmed down. This little gal already had two surgeries over the course of a few years for abdominal obstructions so she's watched very carefully. Had she had an obstruction this time, she would have gone to A&M Small Animal in College Station for surgery. I'm just glad it turned out to be an impacted colon instead of something more serious.

The good news is - I'm slowing down and she's flowing easier. An interesting tidbit - the vet tech said to give her a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin a few times a week if she's having hard stools. Either that or Karo Syrup. Just something to think about in the preps. Of course, I already have both on hand - just didn't know they could be used for puppy poops.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I appreciate all the input. I got on probiotics immediately. The pharmacist told my spouse I really should be taking the live cultures they keep in the fridge in the pharmacy because the probiotics on the shelf are dead cultures. I'm pretty ignorant in this area; but, have chosen to go with the pharmacist's recommendation.

I honestly didn't think about having an enema bag in the preps. Had this happened in a SHTF scenario, I think my only hope would have been a stool transplant because there was no way this was survivable without intervention.


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## Toffee (Mar 13, 2012)

Country Living said:


> This is a bit interesting in a morbid sort of way. Where I had been wide open with the runs, somehow she got stopped up so bad the acidity in her tummy was causing her a lot of stress and foaming at the mouth. Bless her little heart, she had three enemas, a barium swallow along with lots of x-rays to watch it go through her entire GI tract to check for any obstructions, and then couldn't eat for 24 hours until her tummy calmed down. This little gal already had two surgeries over the course of a few years for abdominal obstructions so she's watched very carefully. Had she had an obstruction this time, she would have gone to A&M Small Animal in College Station for surgery. I'm just glad it turned out to be an impacted colon instead of something more serious.
> 
> The good news is - I'm slowing down and she's flowing easier. An interesting tidbit - the vet tech said to give her a couple of tablespoons of pumpkin a few times a week if she's having hard stools. Either that or Karo Syrup. Just something to think about in the preps. Of course, I already have both on hand - just didn't know they could be used for puppy poops.


Pumpkin is great for stomach issues in dogs. It can also help with preventing bloat in bloat-prone dogs.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I am now very cautious about even touching fruit that's loose in a bin. Even though I scrubbed the apple under running water, anyone with health issues / sanitation issues could have touched it before I ever picked it up. Unfortunately, washing produce under running water doesn't guarantee all the cooties will be washed off.

If the fruit or veggie is not prepackaged, then I'm not getting it. Sometimes I think a little paranoia is not a bad thing. I don't ever want to go through this again.

However, there has been a bright spot in all of this since I found out pumpkin has medicinal properties. I think I shall have to force myself to enjoy.... uh, eat... a pumpkin pie about once a month. Maybe a blob of whipped cream would help me make it through the torment. Oh, sure.... it's supposed to be a remedy for the canines; however, I'll just consider this an experiment to see if it also works on the human digestive system. I'll let you know in about 10 or 12 pies.


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