# Trouble with whole wheat bread rising



## Freyadog

I have gotten away from processed flours and only use fresh ground wheat and fresh ground flax. 

both are heavy and can not get my breads to rise like with processed flour.

I have tried more yeast with no help. I have even tried a homemade dough enhancer. 

any suggestions and recipes would be greatly appreciated.


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## mojo4

Use twice the yeast, put the yeast in warm water with a spoonful of sugar for 15 minutes prior and leave the dough on a heating pad. It works well for us.


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## PrepN4Good

mojo4 said:


> Use twice the yeast, put the yeast in warm water with a spoonful of sugar for 15 minutes prior and leave the dough on a heating pad. It works well for us.


Thanks mojo...my whole wheat bread always came out like a brick!


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## Freyadog

mojo4 said:


> Use twice the yeast, put the yeast in warm water with a spoonful of sugar for 15 minutes prior and leave the dough on a heating pad. It works well for us.


This is awesome.

thank you so much. My bread always tastes good but looks like a brick. I am so going to try this method. Sure am glad I do not have to resort back to store flour.


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## Davarm

If you dont want your whole grain bead to be quite so heavy and dense, you can "soak" the flour.

Mix enough water with about half the flour to make a paste and let it sit for a few hours allowing the bran to soak it up. You can then mix your proofed yeast with the rest of the flour and work/knead the two batches together.

It takes more time to make your bread this way but it does make for a lighter and less dense loaf and it will rise better.


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## deetheivy

Not sure about your recipe, not having seen what it is. But in the restaraunts after making the bread, you put it in a humid enviroment.( hot water in the oven with the bread, this alows the dough to rise.) Take it out cut it, and repeat the procedure. once it has risen to desired level, bake. Not sure if this was already being done, and also not sure how well it works with the perticular flour you are using. Feed back though if you aren't using this method would be greatley appreciated, as I am an aspiring baker


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## lilmissy0740

Davarm, if your recipe calls for water do you minus the water you used to soak the flour?
When I grind my own wheat to make bread iI too could break a window. I will have to try the soaking method.


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## GaryS

I don't like the inconsistency of whole wheat bread, so I now bake my bread using three parts unbleached bread flour and one part oat bran. It contains fiber, but is much lighter and doesn't dry out as fast as whole wheat bread.


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## Davarm

lilmissy0740 said:


> Davarm, if your recipe calls for water do you minus the water you used to soak the flour?
> When I grind my own wheat to make bread iI too could break a window. I will have to try the soaking method.


I dont often use a recipe.

With my bread, I add water with the flour until it looks right then kneed it. Soooo, with your whole wheat flour, add water and mix/kneed it until it forms a loose dough then cover the bowl with a lid or towel and let it sit. Keep a measure of how much water you used.

For the half with the yeast, mix your yeast and sugar to the same amount of warm water and let the yeast proof then mix with flour and kneed the two halfes together. You may need to kneed in a little more flour if the dough is not stiff enough.

Set the dough in a warm oven on the middle shelf with a pan of boiling water on the bottom shelf. The water will cool down quite a bit before the loaf rises but it will have added enough steam to keep the loaf moist.

Bake it as you normally would. I know these directions may not be very clear but as I said, I do not usually use recipes.

Good luck if you decide to try it this way.


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## Freyadog

Davarm said:


> If you dont want your whole grain bead to be quite so heavy and dense, you can "soak" the flour.
> 
> Mix enough water with about half the flour to make a paste and let it sit for a few hours allowing the bran to soak it up. You can then mix your proofed yeast with the rest of the flour and work/knead the two batches together.
> 
> It takes more time to make your bread this way but it does make for a lighter and less dense loaf and it will rise better.


Here when you are soaking the 'paste' do you put it on the heating pad or just sit it on the counter?


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## Davarm

Freyadog said:


> Here when you are soaking the 'paste' do you put it on the heating pad or just sit it on the counter?


I just set it on the counter most of the time. I have even put it in the fridge overnight if something comes and I cant finish it up when I planned to.

Note: On my previous post, dont forget the salt.


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## DJgang

So dave, you don't use any extra honey or oil or shortening? 

Just (besides your flour of course) water, salt, yeast, sugar....

My hubby likes my whole wheat bread, it has a good taste but the kids snarl because it's not fluffy like loaf bread. Trying to get them to eat it, so I got some bread flour today and thought I would use a little of that along with my ground wheat flour.


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## Davarm

DJgang said:


> So dave, you don't use any extra honey or oil or shortening?
> 
> Just (besides your flour of course) water, salt, yeast, sugar....
> 
> My hubby likes my whole wheat bread, it has a good taste but the kids snarl because it's not fluffy like loaf bread. Trying to get them to eat it, so I got some bread flour today and thought I would use a little of that along with my ground wheat flour.


DJ, the only ingredients in most of my bread are flour, water, sugar, salt and yeast, I keep it simple and fortunately the DD's like it. I sometimes put a little extra sugar in for the grandson and he gobbles it up when I do.

If you "soak" the whole wheat flour and use bread flour for the other half, your loaves should be light and fluffy like regular white bread. The trick is to get the whole wheat bran to absorb as much water as it will hold, that will soften it up and lighten the texture.


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## lazydaisy67

I'm no expert, but my understanding is not to knead it so much. Only knead it a little bit, not nearly as much as your grandmother did. I read an article in my Country Woman magazine about making bread with whole wheat and it said over-kneading causes the loaf to get to hard. With rising, the article said to allow it PLENTY of time. If you're baking every day, plan on making your dough in the evening and letting it rise overnight at minimum. You can let it rise for 24 hours with no problems. Again, that's just from the magazine, not practice on my part.


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## DJgang

Thanks Daisy, one recipe I use only suggests rising twice for about 45 minutes.

Guess it's time to be patient, slow down, and experiment.


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## NaeKid

Will you share your whole recipe now with us? :wave:


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## webeable

Try useing extra gluten in your bread.


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## squshnut

I sift some of the bran out of the flour.
Then i saved the bran up and put it in muffins, that we make.


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## longtime

I am not a baker, but my whole wheat bread turns out ok. It did take about a dozen tries to get it right.

1.5 cups + 2 TBS of water
2 TBS oil
2 ts salt
1/3 cup of Brown Sugar + 
4.25 cups of WWflour ( Softer lighter 3.25 WW and 1 All purpose Flour)
3 TBS NF Dry Milk
4 ts gluten
2 ts Dry Yeast
Bake 340 F until Temp. 189 F ( Approx 30 min)

I proof the yeast with some of the water and sugar (warmed) and the dough is a little sticky on the first raise, if I use enough flour to make it not sticky the bread is heavy and stiff. I use my oven for both raises by putting a pan of hot water in the oven with the bread.

I also rub butter on the crust as soon as I put it on the cooling rack, without the butter the crust is hard. With the butter the crust is as soft as store bought.


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## DJgang

Nevermind Goodness I have messed up some bread!


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## DJgang

Nevermind: I overdid my yeast. Ugh. 

Off to experiment some more.


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## DJgang

About to get my beer bricks out of the oven! :gaah:


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## siletz

I always add a tablespoon or two of gluten flour to my whole wheat bread. The gluten is what allows the bubbles to form that makes for a light fluffy loaf.


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## stanb999

To make soft bread,

Use less flour, If you must use 6 cups  add water and make bigger loaves. The higher the ratio flour to water the harder the bread. Think about it. A cracker is a little water and lots of flour. A cake is lots of water and a little flour.

Generally people don't knead enough. Bakers were men in the past. Because it is hard work.

Don't flour your kneading surface. Let the dough rest. It will get less sticky with the same water content. If you can knead it right away or within 10 minutes it's too dry.

Let it rise. Recipes always call for a time... Then mention a doubling. Let it double. The time is irrelevant to a point. You don't want it to dry out so several days won't help. But an extra half hour can make a huge difference.

It takes time to learn make good bread. But even a dense loaf is good with butter and Jam. It's still good food if brick like...

This is made with home ground Prairie gold wheat berries.


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## Freyadog

I use red winter wheat...

this is the recipe that I am TRYING to work with. Can anyone help me tweak it so that it will work?

2 tsp. dried yeast
1/2 cup warm water
6 cups whole wheat flour
2 1/4 cups lukewarm water
3 tbs. honey
2 tbs. vegetable oil
1 tsp salt

Gently stir yeast onto warm water and set aside. In large mixing bowl, mix salt and flour and make a well in center of flour. In separate bowl, mix lukewarm water, honey and oil until honey is dissolved. Pour both liquid mixtures into the well in your flour. Stir the center of the flour until you have a smooth batter and then stir into the flour on the sides of the bowl. Let the batter rest 3 or 4 minutes to allow flour to absorb the water. If dough is too stiff you may add a little more water. Knead dough on floured surface for 1o minutes if using hooks or may be kneaded for 20 minutes by hand.

Form dough into a ball and place in a greased bowl. Turn over to coat all of dough and set in warm place, covered for 1 1/2 - 2 hours. Punch down dough and let rise again until doubled in size, form into 2 loaves and place in well greased bread pans.

preheat 425 degree oven.

Bake breads for 10 minutes at this temperature. Turn oven down to 325 and continue baking for 45 minutes. You can brush the tops with melted batter to make them soft,. 2 loaves or 24 rolls


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## stanb999

Freyadog said:


> I use red winter wheat...
> 
> this is the recipe that I am TRYING to work with. Can anyone help me tweak it so that it will work?
> 
> 2 tsp. dried yeast
> 1/2 cup warm water
> 6 cups whole wheat flour
> 2 1/4 cups lukewarm water
> 3 tbs. honey
> 2 tbs. vegetable oil
> 1 tsp salt
> 
> Gently stir yeast onto warm water and set aside. In large mixing bowl, mix salt and flour and make a well in center of flour. In separate bowl, mix lukewarm water, honey and oil until honey is dissolved. Pour both liquid mixtures into the well in your flour. Stir the center of the flour until you have a smooth batter and then stir into the flour on the sides of the bowl. Let the batter rest 3 or 4 minutes to allow flour to absorb the water. If dough is too stiff you may add a little more water. Knead dough on floured surface for 1o minutes if using hooks or may be kneaded for 20 minutes by hand.
> 
> Form dough into a ball and place in a greased bowl. Turn over to coat all of dough and set in warm place, covered for 1 1/2 - 2 hours. Punch down dough and let rise again until doubled in size, form into 2 loaves and place in well greased bread pans.
> 
> preheat 425 degree oven.
> 
> Bake breads for 10 minutes at this temperature. Turn oven down to 325 and continue baking for 45 minutes. You can brush the tops with melted batter to make them soft,. 2 loaves or 24 rolls


I would try to make it with 5 cups maybe 4 1/2. The oil isn't needed. Other than for flavor.

The stickier the dough is the lighter it will be (pancake v/s fritter) both are fried, But the result is quite different. The only issue is working the dough. If you can barely keep it off your fingers. It's perfect. Let the dough rest longer if it's too wet.

Commercial made breads today are made with the dough so soft it's really a paste. You can't work with it that wet so don't expect it to be as soft as that. But you can get close.


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## Freyadog

stanb999 said:


> I would try to make it with 5 cups maybe 4 1/2. The oil isn't needed. Other than for flavor.
> 
> The stickier the dough is the lighter it will be (pancake v/s fritter) both are fried, But the result is quite different. The only issue is working the dough. If you can barely keep it off your fingers. It's perfect. Let the dough rest longer if it's too wet.
> 
> Commercial made breads today are made with the dough so soft it's really a paste. You can't work with it that wet so don't expect it to be as soft as that. But you can get close.


Thank you so much. Will give this a try and see what I get. Just can not eat store bought its gummy to me and no nutrients.

I grind my flour for the week Usually 4 loaves between thumper, me and yea the goats get bites.


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## stanb999

Freyadog said:


> Thank you so much. Will give this a try and see what I get. Just can not eat store bought its gummy to me and no nutrients.
> 
> I grind my flour for the week Usually 4 loaves between thumper, me and yea the goats get bites.


Make sure you give us updates.


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## DJgang

Freyadog

Arent you suppose to mix your honey with the yeast and water? Let it proof?


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## goshengirl

stan, I have been visualizing that photo all day. I can almost smell it.... It looks SO good!


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## Freyadog

DJgang said:


> Freyadog
> 
> Arent you suppose to mix your honey with the yeast and water? Let it proof?


That is what I have always done. sugar in with the water and yeast but this recipe says different.


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## DJgang

Freyadog said:


> That is what I have always done. sugar in with the water and yeast but this recipe says different.


Would ya want to give it a try that way and see if it helps?

I finally gave up and just got my mom's bread machine.

I may try it's (bread machine manufacturer) recipe and knead myself, etc.

It calls for dry milk which I had never seen in a recipe. Also dough enhancer or wheat gluten. I just wish that I could make whole wheat bread very simply, it be good, etc because when shtf, I may not have dough enhancer forever!


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## Freyadog

DJgang said:


> Would ya want to give it a try that way and see if it helps?
> 
> I finally gave up and just got my mom's bread machine.
> 
> I may try it's (bread machine manufacturer) recipe and knead myself, etc.
> 
> It calls for dry milk which I had never seen in a recipe. Also dough enhancer or wheat gluten. I just wish that I could make whole wheat bread very simply, it be good, etc because when shtf, I may not have dough enhancer forever!


Make your own dough enhancer-
1 cup nonfat dry milk
2 cups gluten
2 tsp ginger
4 tb. powdered pectin
4 tb. unflavored gelatin
4 tb. lecethin granules
1 tb. ascorbic acid crystals
*****3 tb. per 3 1/2 cups flour

--------------------------------

or:
4 cups non fat dry milk
3/4 cup lecethin granules
3 heaping tb. vitamin C
2 tb. ginger
3 tb. cornstarch
*****1/4 cup per 5-7 loaves of bread


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## goshengirl

This is a free Kindle download today, 10/1/12: http://www.amazon.com/Vintage-Remed...tmm_kin_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1349102456&sr=8-1

I have not read the book, but I've heard the author speak, and she's really good.


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## boomer

I make up bread dough roughly every 3-4 days and leave the dough in the fridge for a minimum of overnight. I bake almost daily durring the winter by taking a chunk of the dough off the batch in the fridge.

I use plain white vinegar, approximately an ounze and a half per 4 loaf batch of dough as a dough enhanser and always proof the yeast with sugar and relatively hot water. I use a scant teaspoon of yeast per batch as it discourages all forms of yeast and fungal infections. We do not use commercial bread due to reoccuring athlete's foot whenever commercial yeasted products are eaten. I do not preheat the oven as it arrests the end of the raise. 

For bread: Take a loaf sized portion. Punch it down and form a loaf. Use a pan of water in the oven with the light on until it doubles in size. Bake.

For buns: Take a batch sized portion. Punch it down incorporating extra sugar, egg etc if desired along with some extra flour if too soft. Use a pan of water in the oven while rising until double in size. Bake with a pan of water in the oven to get maximum rise. The humidity prevents a crust from forming. The crust will restrict the rise.

For pizza crust: Take a portion and stretch it onto the pan, put in a hot preheated oven until baked but still soft, approx 6-7 minutes at 450F. We have a large ceramic tile in the oven as a pizza stone to stabalize oven temperature. Top and return to oven.

For soft taco: Same as pizza crust then fill and return to oven.

For yeasted Crackers: Roll/stretch onto a pan, score, prick with a fork and salt. Cook in a moderate oven with no water until crisp.

For English Muffins: Remove portion and sprinkle with extra honey and ginger, kneed it in and form muffins, I make hand made balls and press flat into corn meal. Pan fry, they raise as they cook.


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## DJgang

Boomer, I really wish I could follow what you are saying because it sounds great...but I can't comprehend. 

Your dough, is it just wheat flour and water? Then you pull out want you want and add to that according to what your wanting to make?

How do you know how much to use? How much to add? Is this just something you've done for a long time? 

I am bread illiterate! I probably just need to play around with it some more, but my little hand grinder takes it sweet time....


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## lilmissy0740

Has anyone ever sprouted their wheat first then used it for baking?


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