# Is our prepping for nothing



## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

Back in the 70's my family had a VW camper bus, after years and years of traveling and camping all over the U.S. seeing some cool places, my dad decided to sell it, man I was bummed out for the longest time. I always thought to myself we could live in that van all the time if we had to, I know I was young but I think that's when I started becoming a prepper. I always wanted to be more self sufficient. I've said this once before but I always try to buy or do things that make us more self sufficient or things that are dual purpose, everything we buy has a use if something were to happen. We pretty much have everything we need when and if shit happens, I'm doing something everyday to make this house more safe for us, but always feels like I'm not ready and I've thought about this for awhile and if there was nuclear fallout that would be the end of us and all this prepping was for nothing, after reading BunkerBobs posts on his shelter that he built(which is kick ass) I want one..

I live in a bi-level house so my living room, kitchen, small bathroom and utility room are on the lower level which have 10inch block walls and are below the ground, so I'm thinking of mking the utility room a saferoom it's 14lx9wx8h not to big but would do, only problem I see so far would be the ceiling, I would think a concrete ceiling made out of block might work, anybody have a safe room in there basement? What type of ceiling do you have for it?

And yes now that I'm grown up I have a beautiful 1987 VW westphalia camper bus, my kids love it.....


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

I've seen where they put up rafters, then covered with plywood an stacked solid concrete blocks on top a that before.

Here be a site what lists some information that might help yall out: http://www.orau.org/PTP/Library/cdv/Fallout Protection for Homes with Basements.pdf


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

Hey OldCootHillbilly, That's some good info, Ill be thinkin about it for awhile,,
I'll be in Preston, Iowa next month pickin up my new huntin and personal security best friend, a Chesapeake Bay Retreiver..


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Nice pooch, I like chessies.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

HardenedPrepper said:


> Hey OldCootHillbilly, That's some good info, Ill be thinkin about it for awhile,,
> I'll be in Preston, Iowa next month pickin up my new huntin and personal security best friend, a Chesapeake Bay Retreiver..


Great Pup!:congrat: just got me a black lab Christmas Pup tonight, want too work with him to be a bird dog.:2thumb:


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

sailaway said:


> Great Pup!:congrat: just got me a black lab Christmas Pup tonight, want too work with him to be a bird dog.:2thumb:


Pics Please. We love puppy's!!!


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## gds (Oct 10, 2008)

HP, block for a ceiling is weak, do a pour that ties into the walls.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

A block ceiling will work okay for a fallout shelter as long as it's thick/dense enough and the support structure is strong enough to keep it from falling on your head. If you want to have a blast shelter you'll probably have to do something different.

Another good website is found at http://www.ki4u.com/guide.htm

They have a free download of Nuclear War Survival Skills that's worth reading.

HP: congrats on the puppy!


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

If you'd like a little more info on fallout, check out this site. The more we know and learn how to protect ourselves, the better off our families will be.

I have a small basement, so I'm taking all this into serious consideration.

An Ill Wind Blows from Afar:
Iran or North Korea Radioactive Fallout Contamination Map & Radiation Protection FAQ!

What To Do If a Nuclear Attack is Imminent
WHAT TO DO IF A NUCLEAR DISASTER IS IMMINENT!

It takes a few minutes to load if you are on dial-up but very informative. I printed it out in case the power goes down.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

HardenedPrepper, I think your safe room sounds like a good idea. 

Sounds like you've had an interesting life, both as a child and now with your own children, having adventures and learning how to take care of yourselves.

Good luck with the new dog! 

And Sailaway, congrats on the new puppy! 

Can't wait to see pics from both of you!


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

gds said:


> HP, block for a ceiling is weak, do a pour that ties into the walls.


Poured concrete would be nice, but not always practical. Done properly stacked block on a well built frame work will be fairly sound. This is for a fallout shelter, not one designed ta take a direct hit.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

We do not have a fallout shelter and I am concerned about that, but trust the Lord will provide a way. So far everything we have needed to prepare for the "whatever" has come our way. I will check out the sites provided by you and see if there is one we can use. We really should have a storm shelter as tonadoes are plentiful when the seasons change. If the worst should happen while I'm at work we have a huge basement in the courthouse where I work. I also keep a BOB and extra food stored in my office. The shelter thing is nagging at me more and more as the world becomes more unsettled.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Check the specs on both an ya should be able ta build one shelter what will work fer both.

I'd be more concerned with tornado's then fallout, but then again, one never knows with the kooks in the world now.


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm kinda thinkin I would tie in 8 or 10 inch steel ibeams for the ceiling, 16 inch on center, then slide in 10x8x16 soild cinderblocks between the ibeams and they would rest on the lips..that might work, this would work well for both fallout, tornado, and with the right door a saferoom...more thinkin


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

HardenedPrepper said:


> I'm kinda thinkin I would tie in 8 or 10 inch steel ibeams for the ceiling, 16 inch on center, then slide in 10x8x16 soild cinderblocks between the ibeams and they would rest on the lips..that might work, this would work well for both fallout, tornado, and with the right door a saferoom...more thinkin


That sounds a little over-kill! I design oil-rigs where I don't even go that heavy on equipment that will be skidded across tundra or fields. 16" centers are fine for 2x4 stick construction, but, using Wide-flange at its "lightest" in 8" variety is still 10 pounds per foot. That is alot of steel!!!

Picture below shows dimensions of WF8x10 .. if you calculate out the centers at 16" centers you will have 12 1/16" from edge-of-flange to edge-of-flange ..


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

Check your a local High School. As long as it was built before or during the Cold War it will/should have a fallout shelter in it. The one in my area did. Only a few of us know about it. The school has been remodeled since then, but I don't believe it has been touched. 

It will be located in the most central or well covered location in the building.


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

Well instead of putting block up between the Ibeams I will pour concrete instead If you will look at the link. But I am not going to build the tower escape, just a hatch...If you notice on the pic the Ibeams and the rebar going thru them to strengthen the concrete, it's going to be alot of work but worth it...I think

http://www.americanbombshelter.com/manuals/ASR-bomb-fallout-shelter-kit.pdf


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

Francon said:


> home invasion? Do you have a gun or 2 and the requisite skills? Gas masks, and an oxygen source? Consider that "they" might burn the place down around your ears? Go ear protection and body armor? Ever fire a shotgun indoors, at night, without any ear protection? Do you know about the flash that is so big that it ruins your night vision? Got a light to use with the gun? Have you practiced using both at the same time?


This structure would provide shelter against fallout, storms, fire, home invasion, airborne, chmicals, it will have an airfiltration system..Everything else you have guestioned I have or have trained for extensivley for....


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

*Multi-purpose "root cellar"*









*Before... *heavily insulated and undercoated railroad refrigerator car, 
twice coated with foundation tar. A 316ss air intake & exhaust installed,
side doors welded/sealed, end entrance cut in. A steel vestibule was
added as 90 degree entrance, providing space for diesel generator
and changeroom decon shower area. An AR600 steel "lookout" tower
was constructed on top... I paid $1200 for it delivered on a lowboy
when the ground was frozen one February day. Trying to break into
one of these is like cracking a big safe.









*During "burial"... *pond "moat" seen in foreground supplied 30" 
fill over top, 45 degree slope to bottom all around. A W10x17 was 
added with 3" pipe columns inside to support roof wt. About 3"+/- of 
reinforced shotcrete was sprayed all over, then 6" topsoil was applied
and a lawn seeded with automatic sprinklers fed from the pond "moat".

*The idea came from this interesting Viking settlement at L'ans au Medeaux
in Newfoundland, Canada -and looks just like this now that is is finished:*

















*Viking sod house* - instead of the walkway seen, the root cellar has
an irrigation pond "moat" all around it, where the earth was exacavated to
cover it.

_You can do this same type of thing with a steel "Connex" shipping container...
This method beats groundwater and drainage problems that plague many others._

- Basey


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Francon said:


> ... Bugging in makes no sense at all. It just makes you a nice, fat target. Your food must be cached elsewhere, so that when (not if) you have to abandon your home, you have a place to go to and food to eat. ...


There are a lot of good arguments for bugging in. Much will depend upon where you are and the local situation. I believe there's a thread elsewhere already on this topic alone.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

anyone bugging out should watch this movie
*Spring 1941*

After Germany invades Poland and the Nazis order the confinement of all local Jews in the ghetto, these people spent a couple years hiding in the woods while the Nazies were all around looking for them.
they were living in conditions that most people couldn't even stand today.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Nice looking place. I wish I had land to plant a shipping box, but in NJ land equals money. A basement is the closest I'm going to get to a root cellar/shelter for now.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

lotsoflead said:


> anyone bugging out should watch this movie
> *Spring 1941*
> 
> After Germany invades Poland and the Nazis order the confinement of all local Jews in the ghetto, these people spent a couple years hiding in the woods while the Nazies were all around looking for them.
> they were living in conditions that most people couldn't even stand today.


Daniel Craig did a movie called Defiance in 2008 about the Bielski Partisans resistance movement, they saved over 1200 jews by building a 'town' in the forest


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Do you have any details about how he survived and escaped? How did he find food, make shoes and travel?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

As one of the "wimps" Francon so eloquently points out exist so prominently among the populace of the United States, I'd rather die than spend a year in a shelter.

I believe in prepping as much as possible for whatever scenarios we might face, but there comes a point where "quantity" of life might not supercede "quality" of life as the most desirable optoin.

If I had to be left in a heartless world like I suspect some people envision and almost seem to anticipate with a peculiar revelry, I think I'd rather die with the sheeple, the wimps, and the "lesser-preppers".


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> As one of the "wimps" Francon so eloquently points out exist so prominently among the populace of the United States, I'd rather die than spend a year in a shelter.
> 
> I believe in prepping as much as possible for whatever scenarios we might face, but there comes a point where "quantity" of life might not supercede "quality" of life.
> 
> If I had to be left in a heartless world like I suspect some people envision and almost seem to anticipate with a peculiar revelry, I think I'd rather die with the sheeple, the wimps, and the "lesser-preppers".


Ahhh, yes, you're so right; there ARE worse things than dying....

I have an acquaintance who at age 39 had a stroke and became paralyzed from her neck down...she's now late 50s.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> Do you have any details about how he survived and escaped? How did he find food, make shoes and travel?


John Colter, earlier with the Lewis and Clark Expedition, ran about five miles before hiding in a beaver-like structure in the water. He killed one of the Indians that was chasing him and some reports say he took a blanket off of him. He stayed in the river until night and swam down stream. He walked 7 to 11 miles to a fort and lived off of roots known to be eaten by the Indians. They have a race at Missouri Headwater State Park to remember his run.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

Thanks, but I really didn't care. I just wondered if the knucklehead knew what he was talking about since he was running off his mouth. I guess he doesn't know since he didn't care to answer. 
Heck, some guy lived in a cave 10,000 years ago and he did ok for himself


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## BasecampUSA (Dec 26, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> Heck, some guy lived in a cave 10,000 years ago and he did ok for himself


Heh... I live next to a "cave" of sorts now! (ex-spielunker, luvit!)

But instead of stalactites and stalagmites, these are stacks-of-cans, drums, ammo boxes and hanging kero and coleman lamps throughout... we even nickname it "the cave" 

Hmmm wonder what HE was waiting for other than sabre-tooths and mastodons back then...

- Basey


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> Thanks, but I really didn't care. I just wondered if the knucklehead knew what he was talking about since he was running off his mouth.


Hehehe 

Troll postings aside, the story of Colter is pretty fascinating stuff.


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

BasecampUSA said:


> Heh... I live next to a "cave" of sorts now! (ex-spielunker, luvit!)
> 
> But instead of stalactites and stalagmites, these are stacks-of-cans, drums, ammo boxes and hanging kero and coleman lamps throughout... we even nickname it "the cave"
> 
> ...


 OMGosh ... I got claustrophobic just reading that!:gaah:

But I have a room like that ... we call it "No Man's Land" haha ...


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

My Husband calls ours "The Vault"


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## BadgeBunny (Nov 2, 2010)

mdprepper said:


> My Husband calls ours "The Vault"


LOL ... that's what we called the gun and ammo room before our terrible boating accident last year ...


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

*My future retirement home.....*

The place I am looking at in Tennessee has a cave real close to the property. All I have to do is fight with the bear over who has access to the cave when SHTF comes.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

HarleyRider said:


> The place I am looking at in Tennessee has a cave real close to the property. All I have to do is fight with the bear over who has access to the cave when SHTF comes.


Black bear pit roasted like a pig tastes mighty fine ya know!


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## worldengineer (Sep 20, 2010)

As one of my hobbies. I have gotten maps of my area. I have started to label it with everything I deem usefull after the SHTF. Some of the stuff listed below.

Wild pear trees, apple trees, fresh water springs (all weather),wet weather springs, blackberry bushes (wild and tame), blueberry bushes (wild and tame), CAVES, protected places like pipelines etc.

Their are also old mineshafts some where around here, havent been able to find them yet though. I think their well hidden for personal use by the owner.


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

worldengineer said:


> Check your a local High School. As long as it was built before or during the Cold War it will/should have a fallout shelter in it. The one in my area did. Only a few of us know about it. The school has been remodeled since then, but I don't believe it has been touched.
> 
> It will be located in the most central or well covered location in the building.


I did check with my schools and all three have a shelter in the basement even saw a sign that said SHELTER AREA..best thing is all 3 schools are walking distance the closest one is in my back yard...


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

worldengineer said:


> As one of my hobbies. I have gotten maps of my area. I have started to label it with everything I deem usefull after the SHTF. Some of the stuff listed below.
> 
> Wild pear trees, apple trees, fresh water springs (all weather),wet weather springs, blackberry bushes (wild and tame), blueberry bushes (wild and tame), CAVES, protected places like pipelines etc.
> 
> Their are also old mineshafts some where around here, havent been able to find them yet though. I think their well hidden for personal use by the owner.


I have done this only around my bug out place a couple years ago, time to update, and I will be doing this where I live now to, thanks, should be an interesting map in an urban enviroment


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

I believe all they did was drop some crackers and poo pots in the basements of brick buildings like schools and banks. I think most of those school shelters are just fallout shelters not blast shelters. If your house has a basement you probably have just about the same level of protection without the crowds. 

When I was a teenager one of my first jobs was working as a night security guard at a chemical plant. There was an old school building on the property. It was only used for storage. One night I found the door open and we had to walk the building. We found 20-30 old military drums about 30 gallons or so in size. They were all empty, but the contains were listed on the drum. They held things like water, crackers, firstaid, plastic bags and toilet seat so you can empty the drum, snap on the seat and use it for a toilet. There was no bunker or fortified room in the building. The entire basement had small windows to the outside. I guess they would have sand bagged the windows.


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

Jeeze, I looked out in my workshop and found a 'pit' there with a heavy steel hatch, I wonder what's down there.


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## audioguru76 (Jun 10, 2011)

hmmmm. Dad's Backhoe may come in handy after all... 


btw Bunkerbob.. love the sig. I ask folks all the time, "are you a grasshopper or an ant?" So far, no one has ever answered.


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## longtime (Nov 22, 2009)

Keep in mind that your house can be burned. Two ways out?


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

We just prepare as best we can.Not many supplies put away ,other than sugar,flour,rice and ,meal.We will eat from chickens and gardens while it last.

Would like to have a place to run to when storms hit and to put up some food.far as nukes go,not preparing for that,can't afford it and not sure I'd want to live through it anyway.But thats just me.If I were younger I'd probably feel different.


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