# Seed vault



## hunter33 (Jul 9, 2016)

I am interested in buying heritage seeds for my bug out location. It would be in the northern mi area and am looking for recommendations on seed types, companies to purchase from, ideas on how to bury it for long term, and success and or failures stories. Thanks for any ideas you might have


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

I would look into heirloom seeds. I buy mine from Annie's Heirlooms. I try to stick with varieties that will grow in my area and even buy double so I can test some out. There are types of plants I would want to grow but my area will not handle such as strawberries of any kind. They just do not survive the desert summers here. But blueberries and raspberries do.

I store my seeds in a tote in the basement. I try to keep the seeds out of the heat, direct sun and damp. I also replace them every few years (by using my stored seeds and store fresh). I have had up to 80% germination from 5+ year old seeds.

http://www.anniesheirloomseeds.com/


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm still working on it but an idea I heard that makes some sense is to put out a lot of different seeds some you think of and some you don't, seeds from different distributors and different varieties. Do all that then do nothing but document what grows. Other than documentation it's all about neglect. When it's all done you can see what grows where you are with no effort. Those plants may want to be your focus, of course you may want to grow others but constantly fighting un happy plants gets old and if tshtf you aren't going to have all the supplies to cuddle the plants either.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

You didn't mention if you already garden at your home. If you do, you have an idea what grows and what you like to eat. If not, growing a viable food source is not quite as easy as just having some seeds to throw in the ground. Variety also matters, to me anyway. There are tons of different beans, tomatoes.... All taste a bit different, some I have a preference for over others. I like to try something new every year too. You never know when you will have a new favorite! Example: For shelling peas I like my Wando pole. They have that great 'pea' flavor that I love. Grow like a bastard where I was and have tons of peas over a long season. The bush varieties taste the same, but don't seem to have as many, take up a lot of ground space, and are a bitch to harvest, for me anyway. The poles grow tall, take up a small footprint but need to be planted in the back, because they will block sun. Seeds are difficult to find as most folks seem to prefer the bush varieties. Saving my own is imperative.

I harvested seeds each year from what I grew. Pick out one or two plants that look good and let them go to seed, or harvest fruits kind of thing. I had no problems planting seeds that were 'a few years old' that I remember. Sure, some had better germinations than others, but all seemed to grow. I would take old junk mail envelopes, burn or compost the innerds and put the seeds in, folding them and just putting them on a shelf, in storage room. For LTS they do sell the cans of seeds but you may not get the varities you like or that will grow well in that area.

I like Johnnies, Gardens Alive (for pest control also) but most seed companies will let you know if they are 'heritage' seeds or not. Your local hardware, garden center or tractor supply will have a selection each spring. Talk to them about what they prefer. Having a local gardening friend can be invaluable for helping tips on the area! Example: When I first moved to NC, I'd only gardened in the NE. First garden was iffy even though I tried about everything in my arsenal. Talked to some locals with nice gardens. (Just pop in and say howdy if you see them outside, folks LOVE to talk garden! Bending and pulling a few weeds while visiting also makes for a longer chat.) Found you needed to use dolomitic lime to release nutrients in the red clay. With that tip, and a few others, my organic fertilizing that I knew, worked wonders!

I've never buried any or otherwise tried to put any away for LTS, so can't help there.

EDIT: While you are helping to weed, take a look at their soil. Feel it, smell it, ball it up in your hand... Ask about it too! 'It feels like you added something, leaves maybe?', or, 'what do I smell...?' 'How did you get such a nice tilth?' Folks love if you show them you know a little, or are really interested in learning, and might be more willing to give you a tip.


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## Iafrate (Oct 9, 2013)

hunter33 said:


> I am interested in buying heritage seeds for my bug out location. It would be in the northern mi area and am looking for recommendations on seed types, companies to purchase from, ideas on how to bury it for long term, and success and or failures stories. Thanks for any ideas you might have


I would see what your local Extension Service has to say, especially regarding varieties that are best suited for your geographic area. They cant say whether seeed company A is better than seed company B, but from the varieties they say are recommended for your area, you can experiment and see what provides the best results for you


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I buy my seeds, and immediately vacuum seal them in jars, and they go to the bottom of the freezer.

I have planted seeds form 8-10 years old , (going directly from freezer to ground) and worked as well as new.






Jim


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Grimm said:


> I would look into heirloom seeds. I buy mine from Annie's Heirlooms. I try to stick with varieties that will grow in my area and even buy double so I can test some out. There are types of plants I would want to grow but my area will not handle such as strawberries of any kind. They just do not survive the desert summers here. But blueberries and raspberries do.
> 
> I store my seeds in a tote in the basement. I try to keep the seeds out of the heat, direct sun and damp. I also replace them every few years (by using my stored seeds and store fresh). I have had up to 80% germination from 5+ year old seeds.
> 
> http://www.anniesheirloomseeds.com/


I have some strawberry plants that have done quite well in the desert. I have to water them (obviously) but they are big producers of med/small very sweet berries. I got the from Gurneys. We lost most this winter but it got cold quick and killed a bunch of pine trees in the area as well. It was one of those 80* one days and 10* the next kind of winters.

Oops.. I got them at burpees. They are the sweet Charlie. Aside from a yearly dose of horse/goat/rabbit compost, water and protection from critters they take care of themselves.

http://www.burpee.com/fruit/strawberry-plants/strawberry-sweet-charlie-prod003050.html


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

terri9630 said:


> I have some strawberry plants that have done quite well in the desert. I have to water them (obviously) but they are big producers of med/small very sweet berries. I got the from Gurneys. We lost most this winter but it got cold quick and killed a bunch of pine trees in the area as well. It was one of those 80* one days and 10* the next kind of winters.
> 
> Oops.. I got them at burpees. They are the sweet Charlie. Aside from a yearly dose of horse/goat/rabbit compost, water and protection from critters they take care of themselves.
> 
> http://www.burpee.com/fruit/strawberry-plants/strawberry-sweet-charlie-prod003050.html


Those are the same variety I tried last year. I lost every single one in the first heat wave of the summer. I even had them in the shade during the heat and watered all the time. They just do not like it here.

The local nursery told me they can't even get strawberries to survive more than a season.

I said desert to simplify our locale but we are in the foothills above the snowline but on the cusp between two different gardening zones. One is a desert zone and the other is a moderate/mild zone. Spring and fall the plants thrive here. But winter everything freezes and in the summer it all fries. Most of the people who garden here live a few blocks down or up further in the hills. It seems our exact locale is just the burn zone. No one that has tried to garden here does it the following year.

I did see a neighbor try for a garden a second year. He used shade cloth to mute the direct sun on his garden but that gets expensive. I thought of using some too but the cost of the cloth just to cover the chicken run hurt the wallet.

We don't plan to stay here in California for much longer. I know I'll have to reevaluate my seed stash once we move but it is what it is.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I wanted seeds that would do better in the cooler climate so I bought my seeds from a seed farm in Alaska. Unfortunately, with a couple of illnesses and a million other things to do in a new home they never got in the ground. I can't tell you how their seeds are but they are pleasant to work with. They are a newer company.

http://www.foundroot.com/cart/


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Grimm said:


> Those are the same variety I tried last year. I lost every single one in the first heat wave of the summer. I even had them in the shade during the heat and watered all the time. They just do not like it here.
> 
> The local nursery told me they can't even get strawberries to survive more than a season.
> 
> ...


Now that you mention the shade cloth, my wind block is pine trees and my garden is in their shade by about 2pm. It's not enough to help my potatoes and blue berries who have to have the shade cloth, but may make the difference for the strawberries.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Here's how I do it (which is not how my wife does it, but that's a whole different thread).

I take some of the seed that she plants every year, which usually means what grows well in our area without a lot of TLC and what we like to eat (read what she likes to eat in a lot of cases) and I label it and deep freeze it. 

I've got at least 10 years worth of seeds that even if they drop down to 50% germination, we know they will grow here and thrive without a lot of effort. God help us all if I've got to eat that many vegetables, but it's an inexpensive way to build a seed bank and doesn't take a lot of freezer space, since it's the leftover seeds.

How many are heirloom and how many otherwise, I don't know exactly. Judging from the volunteers that come up in our compost pile every year, it's mostly tomatoes, but then I've seen all kinds of stuff there. 

I guess the key to a seed bank is to freeze the seed, without sucking the moisture out of the seed. Gonna have to look that up.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Grimm said:


> Those are the same variety I tried last year. I lost every single one in the first heat wave of the summer. I even had them in the shade during the heat and watered all the time. They just do not like it here.
> 
> The local nursery told me they can't even get strawberries to survive more than a season.
> 
> ...


My sister, not the one I live with now but another one, lives north of Seattle. Can't recall the town, Bethel maybe? But her garden was gorgeous when I saw it early one spring! Apparently there are a lot of little 'micro climates' there. She just happened to live in one where she could have a nice garden year round. Hot weather crops didn't do squat, but a bit down the road in another micro climate, they thrived. I never got to see any other gardens so will take her at her word.

So your situation is not unique, I would think many other places, especially by the coast on the left side of the US have them.... Not that you said yours was unique or anything!


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

phideaux said:


> I buy my seeds, and immediately vacuum seal them in jars, and they go to the bottom of the freezer.
> 
> I have planted seeds form 8-10 years old , (going directly from freezer to ground) and worked as well as new.
> 
> Jim


My father taught me your trick. 15 year after has death we are still planting seeds he saved. Six of us have the 30 areas still growing plants & animals.


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## hunter33 (Jul 9, 2016)

Is there a way for me to bury the seeds in something and still have them last 10 years?


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

hunter33 said:


> Is there a way for me to bury the seeds in something and still have them last 10 years?


Not that I am aware of. The moisture can rot the seeds if your container leaks.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

hunter33 said:


> Is there a way for me to bury the seeds in something and still have them last 10 years?


Seal it in vacuum plastic, coated with bees wax, then put it in a stainless steel vault, bury it 36 inches deep & plant an azalea on top with some daylillies to mark the vault.

This works good with trespasser too. 

Or you could put the vault in the floor of your root cellar & stack drums of wheat & rye on top of the spot in the floor.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

hunter33 said:


> Is there a way for me to bury the seeds in something and still have them last 10 years?


I'm no huge pro at doing it, I just sound like I know it all.

I would think sealing them up, vacuum sealing separately, with an O2 absorber in each pack, then burying in a sealed container should work. Your big enemies would be oxygen, moisture and temperature. Keeping all as low as possible should, in theory, give you a long storage life.

You can make many smaller vacuum sealing packages by cutting the larger bags up, and sealing three sides. Then fill and seal the remaining side. I have made smaller (6" bags) out of a 12" roll before for sealing up smaller pieces of fish for freezing. Worked fine. With my smaller unit I had to take time to plan sealing up. It would tend to overheat easily so could only do a certain amount at a time.

For seeds, you could seal several 3" or so strips at a time. Leave the sealer open to help cool it. Take time to cut each strip into 3" or whatever wide strips, then seal the sides. Let it cool while you put seeds in, then seal them up. It may take several batches for all your seeds, but would do it. Of course larger seeds, like peas, beans and such, would require larger bags so maybe a 6" wide roll would be fine. Depending on how many seeds required for whatever size of a garden. It might take several bags for each kind of seed.

Remember to write on each bag what they are as you do them! Maybe even a piece of paper in each one as you fill them up. That way they will never rub off.

Not that it ever happened to me, especially doing something like bottling tinctures in blue bottles... But, I have heard tell of folks bottling or bagging stuff up, laying it all out and knowing what each one was. Then getting a call or visitors, coming back later and going 'What was this one again?' Then comes the tipping each bottle up, getting a little on a finger to taste and going, 'Ah, it is this one... No,... maybe it is this?' Going to the sink and finding each jar, taking a taste and going 'Yup, this one... No... let me check this one again...' Then going back to the bottling table and trying to remember which group you took it from to begin with, then having to taste each one......... I swear, some folks just never learn. Oops! I forgot to give them a 'Bless your heart.'


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I'm not sure the best places to purchase the seeds but as far as what kind to get my thoughts have always been split in two things. What you want to eat and what will grow and produce with the worst conditions you have in your area. So get seeds for things that you want to eat and enjoy the most for those good years but also plan to have seeds planted for just basic surviving of extremely tolerant crops for the years of floods, extreme heat or cold, droughts, etc..


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*"Doomsday Seed Vault" in the Arctic*

Good reading here....
http://www.globalresearch.ca/doomsday-seed-vault-in-the-arctic-2/23503:)


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

^^^ Nothing there..

Looks like the article has been taken down.


Jim


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/10/22/norway-doomsday-backstory-arwa.cnn

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/may/20/the-doomsday-vault-seeds-save-post-apocalyptic-world

I Google this.


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## neil-v1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I also vac seal my seeds and put em in the freezer. They work great.


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## timmie (Jan 14, 2012)

try seedtreasures.com jackie clay has some heirloom seeds that grow in minnesota.


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