# Simple Shelters that you can call 'Cabins'...



## JeepHammer

What is the MINIMUM you can get away with for a 'Cabin'...
You know, hunting 'Lodge', fishing 'Cabin', woods 'Shack', just someplace to camp and stay over a few nights mostly...

I'm running into more and more of the 'Yard Barns' out in the woods in different places.
These can run from basic sheet metal 'Squats' to the much nicer and larger 'Mini Barns' you find on lots for sale...

What is the 'Minimum' you could get by with if you had to spend say, a month there!?

Would you build a shower and how would you do it?

Would you set up a 'Camp' around the 'Cabin', or would you start building onto it like a house?

Would you prefer something portable on a 'Utility Trailer' or something more 'Permanent'?


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## Jerseyzuks

I have stayed in a tent for a couple of weeks, even through some really bad weather. 

Assuming it was winter, I could easily get by for a month or 2 in a shed with a small pot bellied stove in one corner and a bed


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## Smithy

I live in suburbia, and have 2 sheds in my backyard... 1 for storage, and the other is my workshop. I've long considered how one of these could make for a good woods cabin, bug out home, etc. If space is not the prime issue (which it is for me today, what with wife and 3 kids, 2 cats, and the fish) I would think that a couple might fit nicely in one for an extended period.

Consider the ways to improve one of these:









Once settled, the use of expanding foam in between floor joists to insulate from the ground would help a lot... as would insulation and drywall on the framed interior. I would leave the roof space open, and perhaps build some shelving in the ceiling joists for storage. Bed for the wife and I in one half, bunk beds for kids in the far corner, and in the open corner, a wood stove/kitchen area. Everything else can go outside under tarps or 2x4/plywood roof extensions.

Yes, it's very *******, but to "get by" in a primitive environment, it's a lot better than many of our pioneer ancestors had, better built, and very portable. These go for $2500 for a 10x14 foot building at many suppliers. My workshop has a skylight on the ridgeline, and a stovepipe exhaust for the forge, double front doors, and front windows. My wife says I live out there half the time now, refitting the space for habitation really wouldn't be that hard, if we had to.


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## guyfour

Is it 2500 shipped or how much would it be for shipping?


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## TechAdmin

I know a local that is building these modules for bare essentials back to land living. So you can buy X amount of modules and piece them together. Buy more if you need more later. Real nice craftsmanship and clever idea.


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## JeepHammer

*SHELVING*, free standing or along the walls. 
No such thing as too much storage space!

Make it wide enough and strong enough to double as a 'Bunk' in the event you have to live there for an extended period.

Some 'Economy' 2"x4" Studs and some metal joist hanger brackets make a simple, but strong frame for heavy duty shelving, and a 4'x8'x3/4" piece of plywood ripped down makes for 16' of 24" wide shelving that will hold more than a grown mans weight very economically.
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*WATER.*
Some provision for water storage should be made in the even of blizzard, or illness to where you can't get out and bring in water.

A lot can be done with plastic barrels and some PVC/Fittings/Glue!

For me, that would probably be in a barrel(s) in the attic/rafter space since stored there empty it would out of the way, and if full, gravity would feed my water needs.
Being in the rafters should also keep it from freezing.

Small scale storage can be done with nothing more than 5 gallon buckets on the sheves or stacked on the floor, but that takes up some of your floor space that is already in short supply.

I would suggest a sink with drain that goes out to a 'Sump' filled with rocks...
Just a 'Gray Water' sump, hole filled with rocks with your drain leading into it.

Sink can be nothing more than a larger stainless steel mixing bowl with a common bathroom sink drain installed in the bottom of it.
We are talking a 'Bowl' with a 'Stopper On A Chain' here, not fulling working lavatory...

This is not a 'Solid Waste' removal system, it's for washing dishes, shaving, maybe emptying bladders in the middle of the night...
It's not a 'Slop Bucket'...
(and if you don't know what a 'Slop Bucket' is, We can go into that later)
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*PRIMARY BED.*

This one is easy for me since I like sail boats...
HAMMOCK! Really wide hammock if it's two people.
Folds up in a flash to store and takes up virtually no space!
Can be made from ropes, '550 Para-Cord', wire or about anything else you can call 'Cordage'.

I got hooked on Hammocks in the Marine Corps when I spent several months 'Operational' and didn't often have a bed to sleep in, but a 'Fish Net' hammock took up very little room, weighed very little, went up about anywhere from between two armored vehicles in the desert to 100 Feet up in tress in the rain forests!

Jungle Hammocks were my favorite, they had bug netting!
It was very nice having an 'Apartment' I could put up and take down in less than 5 minutes no matter where I was!

Fish nets or heavy material (Canvas/Sheeting) make good hammocks.

I spent one summer camping in a hammock made from 2" saplings on the ends, and that bright 'Safety Orange' plastic fencing! Made a GREAT hammock...

Now, don't hang a hammock like you see the movies or on those stupid things you see in peoples' yards...
SPLAY the two 'Head' ropes out, like they are both going to different trees so the hammock spreader bar doesn't rotate on a center axis!
That will make them as rock steady as you can possibly imagine!
(even my girlfriend can't flip us over, and she can fall down on flat sidewalks!)
OR,
You can lay in the hammock 'cross-ways' to what you see on TV... 
Lay Parallel with the spreader bars across the hammock...
This is more for one person than for two people, since if there are two, you will have a tendency to 'Run Together' in the middle...

Cowboy Hammock,
Take a 4x4 frame, drill 3/4" holes about 6 or 8" apart all the way around, and stretch rope back and forth through all the holes, cross ways and long ways, weaving the rope as you cross other ropes.

The 'Criss Cross' weaving makes for a suspension bed that is surprisingly comfortable.

When you are not going to use it for some time, you can cut a piece of plywood to put over it and use it for a bench or shelf, and if the need arises, you are ready to go!
.........

You want to stay away from conventional 'Mattresses' for this purpose...
Mattresses don't store very well in non temprature and humidity controlled environments.
They have a tendency to collect moisture, mold, mildew, rot, collect bugs, parasites, and just generally get filthy.

They are very hard to store in 'Moisture Proof' containers because of their size, even if you seal them up in plastic & tape, that isn't going to keep the bugs and rodents out!...

You are better off with CLOSED CELL foam pads 
(not the 'Sponge Foam' that is used in couch cushions and pillows)
Blankets, rugs or anything that is easy to store and you can take out and wash, beat the crap out of and generally boil if they get dirty or parasite infested.
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*TABLES.*
Shelving isn't the same as a 'Table' you can get your legs under, entertain guests, work on some larger project you need to be about to get around and over,
Or put an injured person on to render first aid.

Again, this can be as easy as a double thick slab of 3/4" plywood on barn hinges screwed to the wall,
(so it will fold up and out of the way when not in use)
And a couple of barn door hinges on legs so the fold down when you let the table down...

Or as complicated as one of the folding tables with plastic tops from Wally-World or somewhere else.
-----------------------------

*HEAT.*
Does anyone know what a 'Rocket Mass Heater' looks like or how it works?
rocket mass heaters-super efficient wood stoves - Google Search




http://www.oasisdesign.net/energy/woodheat/index.htm

In the case of outdoor cooking, a rocket STOVE...
http://solarcooking.wikia.com/wiki/Rocket_Stove
http://www.homegrownevolution.com/2007/11/our-rocket-stove.html
http://www.rocketstoves.com/pdf/b&w.pdf

Anyway, rocket mass stoves and heaters are SUPER EFFICIENT at burning wood in particular, but they like rolled up phone books, catalogs, newspapers and about anything else you have laying around that will burn!

Three good selling points for me are...
1. DIRT CHEAP TO BUILD!
Most of the time they are made from scrap materials and they are VERY EASY to build!

2. SUPER EFFICIENT means a hand full of twigs will keep you warm for hours!

3. Virtually no SMOKE to give your position away or get in your eyes/shelter when they are in operation!
The super efficiency makes them virtually smoke free if you get the air intake proportions correct!


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## Smithy

nine, I got mine from a somewhat local place. They ship up to 40 miles free, or did a few years ago. Look around, google up some local suppliers and ask what their deals are. If you have the means and the space, now is probably a good buyers market with the decline of retail and economic contraction. In other words, don't be afraid to negotiate shipping if you're paying the asking price for the shed, assuming they ship at all.


I've seen some people mount these things on a flatbed trailer, and use them as mini-mobile homes. Not a bad idea, really, to keep on on the side of the house like that, stocked with a few months supplies, and just hitch up and go if you need to leave your current environment. I have a well-stocked camper van that serves the same purpose, with a bed for the wife and I, and tents for the kids, and a couple weeks of food and water on board. Terrible milage, but I only drive it a couple thousand miles a year, mostly for scouting and in the winter (I usually motorcycle, but won't on ice).


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## gds

Ah-ha, keeping up with the jones's. And exactly why does it have to be visually apealing? 

Around here you can buy 53' box trailers for $500--$1200, 200-$300 to move it where you want it, instant shelter. Container boxes are going for 200-$800.


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## Smithy

gds said:


> Ah-ha, keeping up with the jones's. And exactly why does it have to be visually apealing?
> 
> Around here you can buy 53' box trailers for $500--$1200, 200-$300 to move it where you want it, instant shelter. Container boxes are going for 200-$800.


I dunno if the "jones" comment was for me or the jeep, but I know I'd rather dump a couple grand into a properly framed wood building, than a container or trailer. The containers are rugged and cheap, but the effort you spend making them livable is just too much, if you value your time at all. Metal boxes also suck at insulation, and I would think that a 53 foot trailer would be very difficult to heat or cool efficiently, with all that interior space.

I guess to me, a cabin is a minimalist shelter that provides the basics... I can sleep, cook, and enjoy my wife's company in relative privacy and comfort, and everything else can be done "outside" in an expanded camp around the cabin itself. Many original homesteaders did just this. Just watch an episode of "Little House on the Prairie", and pay attention to the architecture of that home... little more than one of these prefab sheds we're talking about. Add a stone fireplace and maybe 8 feet on either side, and a little more attic, and that's it folks. When you're busy doing agriculture, hunting, etc, you don't need a palatial home if you're practicing minimalism.

Frankly, I long for the day I have a place like that to go disappear to when I'm done working the office life.


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## JeepHammer

I have two ShipCons, one here and one at the river house.
Good, cheap secure storage.

I've considered burying the 20' one when we are done for a 'Root Cellar'. 
I'm told they will do very well underground if you install a drain and coat the outside with Urethane or Tar or Basement Sealer...
I just don't want it rusting out in a few years.

I CERTAINLY wouldn't want to live in one!
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Smithy said:


> I dunno if the "jones" comment was for me or the jeep,...


Don't pay any attention to it, gds has a burr under his saddle.
I don't know why, and to be quite frank, I don't care to spend the time to find out..

I just ignore the comments like that, try and glean any information I can from his posts, and move on...
I know a good idea when I steal it! 
--------------------------------



Smithy said:


> ... but I know I'd rather dump a couple grand into a properly framed wood building, than a container or trailer. The containers are rugged and cheap, but the effort you spend making them livable is just too much, if you value your time at all. Metal boxes also suck at insulation, and I would think that a 53 foot trailer would be very difficult to heat or cool efficiently, with all that interior space.


Insulation will be the deciding factor if you 'Survive' or 'Live' in your shelter...
I prefer windows, insulation, ventlation, and I value QUIET, you will be able to hear a mouse fart in a metal box! (Smell it too since there won't be any ventlation!)



> I guess to me, a cabin is a minimalist shelter that provides the basics... I can sleep, cook, and enjoy my wife's company in relative privacy and comfort, and everything else can be done "outside" in an expanded camp around the cabin itself.


EXACTLY!
I'm not talking about the end of the world in a mushroom cloud or race riot the extremest seem to be scared of...

I'm talking about a Hunting, Fishing, Camping, General Outdoors place you can go to relax, get away from cell phones, noisy neighbors, bosses and crazes and just calm down again!

If there were a natural disaster, it would be someplace I could go until my home was livable again...



> Frankly, I long for the day I have a place like that to go disappear to when I'm done working the office life.


You said a mouth full there!


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## JeepHammer

I don't want to loose focus on the 'Shelter' part,
Large tents, small 'Cabins', about anything that keeps the rain and snow off your head I'd like to hear about...

I just read an article about a guy that built a 'Root Cellar' out of old tires.
I guess that could be a 'Cabin' in an emergency!

Anyone seen the plywood 'Diamond Shaped' cabins they are building in Fla.?


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## netandtim

We've been looking at building such a structure out at the farm to use as a guest house, for lack of a better term. Found some great floor plans at 
www.townandcountryplans.com
www.tumbleweedhouses.com

Can be built as plain or as fancy as skills, budget, and imagination allows.
Net


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## JeepHammer

Great Links Net!
And that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about!

It's really good to see in those older designs, the passive solar built in and still being used!

It isn't obvious to us now, but those upstairs windows above the roof line, the extended porches, ect. are all what we call 'Passive Solar' now, (the old timers that used them called them 'Common Sense'!)


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## concernedcitizen

Whatever happened to the TeePee.... You could make one with a tarp. Are your average tarps large enough to make one with though, is what I am unsure of.


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## Washkeeton

Short term Im looking at either a small cabin to live in. Something like say a 12x16 or so with a small loft and a small wood stove for heat or a small travel trailer with an add on. The only reason that I like the travel trailer with the add on is cause I dont have to set up a kitchen. Planing for an out house or a composting toilet anyway. 

Lots of the remote bush cabins for even the large families up here are small. No bigger than either 10 x 10 or maybe 15 x15 with a sleeping loft. Beds are made out of spruce polls and attached to the walls making storage underneath them as well as bunks for the kids, if there is any and the other kids go up into the sleeping loft. The extras also go up there as far as out of season clothing. There is no room for junk collecting in these cabins. 

I spent quite a bit of time with a friend that was in a small say oh 12 x 12 cabin with a loft. When I came in it there was nothing... there were shelves in the corner to the left for you to put a plastic dish pan on, and a small shelf above that for spices and the like. There was a wood stove by the door with a flat top on it so when we got the fire hot we cooked on it. There was a loft with a small ladder and that was the whole cabin... nothing else in it. There was an outhouse. These cabins now rent for over 400 per month up in the fairbanks area now. They are very primative cabins.. 

In the winter, food storage is in a cashe or just hung out and frozen outside. In the summers the food is kept cool by digging in permafrost and lining it with both a plywood lining and native grasses. The food is left in there for refrigeration covered with a ply wood top and then with native moss. Some of the holes are dug into the permafrost, lined with native grasses and then a hide, like moose is placed in there fur side down and the food is placed on top of this. The hole is again covered with a piece of ply wood and then native moss. 

For my main home I am going underground. I want to follow the ideas in the $50 and up underground house book. I do plan to run a better plastic/rubber over the top and walls to prevent water leaking in.


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## Biscuit

JeepHammer said:


> *HEAT.*
> Does anyone know what a 'Rocket Mass Heater' looks like or how it works?
> rocket mass heaters-super efficient wood stoves - Google Search
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of outdoor cooking, a rocket STOVE...
> Rocket Stove - Solar Cooking
> Homegrown Evolution: Our Rocket Stove
> http://www.rocketstoves.com/pdf/b&w.pdf
> 
> Anyway, rocket mass stoves and heaters are SUPER EFFICIENT at burning wood in particular, but they like rolled up phone books, catalogs, newspapers and about anything else you have laying around that will burn!
> 
> Three good selling points for me are...
> 1. DIRT CHEAP TO BUILD!
> Most of the time they are made from scrap materials and they are VERY EASY to build!
> 
> 2. SUPER EFFICIENT means a hand full of twigs will keep you warm for hours!
> 
> 3. Virtually no SMOKE to give your position away or get in your eyes/shelter when they are in operation!
> The super efficiency makes them virtually smoke free if you get the air intake proportions correct!


*Excellent* ideas, thanks! Except for the hammocks, that is. lol I'd never heard of or seen a rocket stove. Amazingly simple and yet looks very efficient. Much more so than my little firepit, I'm sure.


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## JeepHammer

concernedcitizen said:


> Whatever happened to the TeePee.... You could make one with a tarp. Are your average tarps large enough to make one with though, is what I am unsure of.


We lived in a 'TeePee' for one summer at the river!
Made it with a liner on the floor, drape for the walls, smoke hole, everything like the Native Americans used to do!

Worked REMARKABLY WELL!
They REALLY had it figured out, right down to drafting between outer shell and liner for keeping the smoke going the correct direction and adding layers for insulation!

We used the canvas out of an old military garage tent, so ours was somewhat water repellant, but not real well insulated like a properly prepared hides would have been, but it worked right up until the snow flew when we took it down for the winter (and never put it back up the next spring...).

That was 30+ year ago, and when I was down that way again this spring, the 'Lodge Stones' are still there for the 'TeePee' we had as kids!
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Biscuit said:


> *Excellent* ideas, thanks! Except for the hammocks, that is. lol *I'd never heard of or seen a rocket stove.* Amazingly simple and yet looks very efficient. Much more so than my little firepit, I'm sure.


*That's what Dean wanted this forum to be, an exchange of ideas, 
Exposing people to new ideas,
OR,
Having people show improvements, no matter how small, on existing things that make us more comfortable as we try to become more sustainable/self reliant in our living!*

....................

What's wrong with Hammocks? 

The rocket mass heaters are real popular in cold areas where fuel can be expensive...
They move the tubing all around the room, and cover it with concrete or masonry before the tubing exits the house in the chimney...
Virtually all the heat is absorbed by the masonry in the home and radiated into the room.
Plus you get a 'Wrap Around' couch, bench, bed or whatever that stays warm for HOURS after you burn a hand full of wood...

Nothing more than a stove pipe that has been surrounded with cement, and once in, it's virtually leak proof, so no CO issues in the dwelling...
This would be GREAT for an earth sheltered home with poured concrete or concrete block walls!
The 'Bench' or 'Couch' would be a real reinforcing feature for the base of the wall!

Rocket 'Stoves' have been around for a few hundred years...
Not a big deal in a country with lots of forests, but in high country or mountains where there isn't a lot of timber,
Or where the land has been deforested, these are a big deal!

I'm just lazy, so I latched onto the idea so I didn't have to 'Lump' in as much fuel for the fire to cook and heat with!

It's a good idea, easy to make with nothing more than some tin and an old paint can, and they work GREAT!
Breakfast in minutes with nothing more than a hand full of small sticks, and virtually no smoke in my face!


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## flatwater

When we bought our property it had a 12x16 cabin on it. I put a 12x4 tool shed on one side then an additional 14x20 addition on the other side. I'm now puting in an indoor out house. With the additions it comes to about 500 square feet. That's the minimum that my wife and I wanted.








flatwater


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## flatwater

oops It didn't work on the first one. sorry.
flatwater


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## Magus

Home depot sells "sheds" that would make teriffic over nighters,up to a 7000$ two story mini house!just insulate it and put in panneling and its ready for the winter!


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## The_Blob

nice looking place flatwater!

Magus, have you seen the 'framing kits' they have at harbor freight? the ones where you slide 2x4s into & fasten... I think the basic kit is $50 & can frame a 10'x12' shed, of course you have to also buy the 2x4s & plywood...


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## Roi du Rodentia

I built an uber simple A-frame using six by lumber where Wife, Infant Son, two dogs and a cat lived with me through a WI winter while saving money to build the real cabin/house the next summer. Heated only by wood and the wife's infrequent attempt at cooking, we were snug enough even if ALL of us, dogs and cat included had to get up into the loft area where wife and I slept.No electricity, just kerosene lamps and battery powered radio, no running water, just a ten gallon milk can with a ladle and of course the do or die outdoor privy. Somehow, we all adapted to having our more pressing needs such as bowel movements, etc, for when we were at work. I could (and did) shower at work after each shift.
One unexpected benefit to this scheme was that once the main house/cabin was liveable, I was able to dismantle the A-frame and use that lumber to build an attached garage/carport/wood shed!


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## pubwvj

JeepHammer said:


> What is the MINIMUM you can get away with for a 'Cabin'...


Our house is pretty minimal - about 252 sq-ft. We have a bedroom for us, a loft for the kids, a common room with the kitchen on one side, eating in the front, desk on the other side, wood stove in the middle. The bathroom is the remaining space with a full bathtub and shower. It is amazing how densely you can organize things into such a small space. Every thing's built in.










Sugar Mountain Farm: One Year Construction Mark

We built this small because it was something we could do effort wise, time wise and financially. It took us two months to close in and we barely made it before winter hit hard.

We built of stone and concrete because I understand those materials and wanted a structure with very low maintenance that would last. The high thermal mass (100,000 lbs) inside the insulating envelope means the house is very temperature stable and soaks up passive solar heat wonderfully. Much cozier than our draft old farm house.

As an added benefit, the town assessment is very low so it helps keep the real estate taxes down.

Cheers,

-Walter


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## Canadian

It's a stone house. It's a glass house. Look at all those windows. Let there be light.


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## crikey

There are a bunch of premade cabins you can buy that are ready to go. Here is a link to one site. i got mine from them and love it.

PRE-BUILT LOG CABIN SPECIFICATIONS & PRICES

The best part is it is semi portable, comfortable and looks like a real cabin. (well it is I guess) I have it setting on 24 acres in N. AZ. We have a small garden that gives us about 200 quarts of food each season, we have a well and the entire property is off grid and run by solar. On the back portion of the property is a very small stream that produces some brook trout in the spring and summer and whoever owned the land before me, and this is the best part, installed an actual underground bunker. Not just a concrete shaft in the side of a hill, a commercial underground bunker. Why or when he did it I have no idea but it is reasonably new (about 8 years maybe) and is complete with everything you could imagine. it simply needs stocked.

Sorry I went off on the tangent. Really just wanted to post the link.


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## sailaway

This is an interesting topic for me. I enjoy the trappings of the big city so will always maintain something there, where ever there is. I have a need for a place to go to when it all goes wrong and have begun to look for that place. I am interested in a 12'x16' barn style cabin like you see at Home Depot. I would never buy one though, I would go measure out one of theirs and buy the materials from them to build my own. Materials are only about 1/2 the cost of a complete one. Space wise, I would want a loft for sleeping in and have an open floor below. I go around about how many windows and a kitchen counter. I also think about a small closet with a portapotty toilet in the corner. I haven't settled in on what sort of roof yet, or how big of a poarch. I also am going to wire it for 12volt the way my sail boat is. Heating and cooking would be done with a wood burner, Igot a free one from Cabelas. I would definately keep it simple. Land wise it would be nice to find something butting up to a state or national park, ideally with a stream running through it. I wouldn't be there that often due to my schedule so I am concerned about its security. There are people every where and being ripped off whem I'm gone is a concearn. My game is to get the whole thing for free, by using company credit cards to build up points for Home Depot Gift Cards. Other than finding the right land I am on my way.


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## HillbillyWoman

I am so glad I found this thread. It's just the information I've been looking for, regarding minimizing and living securely if/when society goes down the tubes.

As regards sleeping in a hammock, that's not an option for me, as I have lower lumbar issues. Has anyone here heard of a 'Viking bed'? It's portable, strong, and easy on the spine. In the alternative, a closed cell foam along the "Murphy-bed" idea might be an option for a "larger" cabin with wall space to spare. The 'young folks' might can climb up into a loft night after night, but I couldn't.

Thoughts? :scratch


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## sailaway

HillbillyWoman said:


> I am so glad I found this thread. It's just the information I've been looking for, regarding minimizing and living securely if/when society goes down the tubes.
> 
> As regards sleeping in a hammock, that's not an option for me, as I have lower lumbar issues. Has anyone here heard of a 'Viking bed'? It's portable, strong, and easy on the spine. In the alternative, a closed cell foam along the "Murphy-bed" idea might be an option for a "larger" cabin with wall space to spare. The 'young folks' might can climb up into a loft night after night, but I couldn't.
> 
> Thoughts? :scratch


I had a murphy bed in a studio apt. I once rented, it's as comfortable as the matress you have on it. I also think about multiple use furniture when I think of a small cabin. I also look at furniture and plans to make it thinking about what our ancestors would have had. How about a trundle bed or a sea birth type bed? doubles as a couch and a bed.


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## TechAdmin

I was looking over the plans for a viking bed and that's pretty cool. I think I'm goign to make it my next project. My daughter needs a new bed. Little Girls like viking stuff right?


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## mirigraber

Great thread. I am really learning a lot here. Having a cabin in the woods has always been a dream of mine but no one ever supported it. My ex-husband didn't want anything to do with living in the country. My current boyfriend is not against it in theory but he works in NJ during the week is only here on weekends and is against it for that reason and I have to agree with him. I have camped long-term (6 weeks +) and lived on my grandparents farm when I was younger which was remote enough to be very very dark at night. We were always pretty comfortable there but after my grandfather died and it was just me and my mom and grandmother it had a very different feel. I think that these experiences have given me and appreciation of how vulnerable you can feel without neighbors and policemen and streetlights. Having a get-a-way type arrangement would not be perfect but seems like a good alternative for that reason and I'm trying to save up for doing that. Thanks for all the great info!


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## Von Helman

Neat thread,

I can’t believe pubwvj lives in such a small place with three kids which is great! 

I’ve seen it many times before and close familyes are a result.


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## Turtle

Neat thread. My wife and I were actually talking the other day about a buying a piece of land that we found for 85k for 5 acres and we found a place that does log cabins for around 20k . . . she actually seemed kind of excited about the idea, which is really shocking considering the fact that she doesn't want to go camping with me because (and this is a quote) her idea of "roughing it" would be "staying at a Holiday Inn." lol


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## sailaway

Turtle said:


> Neat thread. My wife and I were actually talking the other day about a buying a piece of land that we found for 85k for 5 acres and we found a place that does log cabins for around 20k . . . she actually seemed kind of excited about the idea, which is really shocking considering the fact that she doesn't want to go camping with me because (and this is a quote) her idea of "roughing it" would be "staying at a Holiday Inn." lol


Turtle, your wife and my wife must be sisters or cousins, roughing it for mine is a mint on her pillow., or you can stay in alot of Holiday Inns for what your spending on that little trailer!:gaah: She did sleep in my minimalist backpackers tent with me one night and the day I said: "I do" she didn't anymore. To her credit though, she loves long weekends camping out on the sail boat.

I do think families would be closser if their homes were smaller and they were forced to be together. I have been hoping that all of the economic caios our nation is going through right now will bring us back to that closeness.


----------



## Turtle

sailaway said:


> Turtle, your wife and my wife must be sisters or cousins,


Well, her dad _is_ from cleveland (or actually, Parma), so it is a distinct possibility . . .


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## HozayBuck

Well yawlz lettin this fine thread peter out...I am planning to build my "shanty in the woods " very soon

I looked at these and decided I could build better and cheaper, Ulrich Barn Builders (Cleburne,TX)
But I did get some ideas from them...
Mines going to be 16x20 with a shanty roof and below the front of the roof about 2 ft will be the porch roof, in the 2 ft space will be windows that open to let out the heat in the summer and let in Passive solar in the winter, the 12 by 20 ft porch will be enclosed with half walls and screens and removable storm windows for winter use, facing the south it will allow a max of passive solar ( I'm also thinking about a dark flag stone or slate floor on the porch to absorb the winter sun..) plus allow some greens to grow for salads in the winter.. the roof is going to be metal with guttering feeding run off into storage tanks for my use as well as garden water...we average 48 inchs a year..but summer is dry...and hot.. I can pump water from the shallow creek right by the place for the garden if need be... I can live very easy in a 16x20 ft cabin, hell maybe I can find me a lady who wants to live green and free...of course the day the DAV and SS checks stop will really bring the back to nature life out for real!!

I priced out a solar unit with enough to run my small led lighting, a tv and my laptop... an RV fridge and small range and I'm fixed...

I can do all this for around 5 K... maybe a bit more, I've priced logs from a local outfit and am going to price the cost if I use standard construction materials from HD...

my chickens are free range and provide all the eggs we can use if we worked at it.. plus we hatch out some and have two hens that sit clutchs of eggs..

Well time to do and stop talking!...

Hope yawl will keep this thread going....learning a lot..


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## SwampRat

*Shack*

I have a few shacks on my property. We use them for hunting, camping, etc.

All you need is basic shelter! Those units at Home Depot are JUNK and you can build them ALOT cheaper yourself. My main shack is an 8x8 with 6in walls (its gets COLD up here!). I insulated it, put in a propane heater, built a bed, hung tounge and groove and use a Coleman stove. My wife and I hunt out of it for long periods of time. BTW, for sanitation, we have one of those plastic crappers from a construction site close by. We haul in water and are VERY comfortable there!

One of the other shacks is 8x10 with a bathroom (chem toliet) and a "piss pipe for urine that runs underground and the deer won't smell it. Both shacks have carpet!!!!

I am working on a 12x12. Its up on telephone pole, 20 feet off the ground! I will make this livable as well...

The real trick is this: You cannot live in a shack if you are not going to "let go" of the city life! I have no elec....don't want it. I don't have alot of "stuff" in the shacks...no room. What I do bring out, I make sure it has a place in the shack because if not, you will be tripping over it!!!

I will post pics as soon as I can figure out how to import from my laptop to here!

Next, I am planning on adding a 14x20 near the 8x8 creating a "deer camp". The 14x20 will just be an open shack with a loft for sleeping and my cast iron woodstove and a covered (maybe screened in) porch. I am looking at sinking a sandpoint at the camp for water....

SwampRat


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## Asatrur

Funny this thread just showed up. We are trying to reduce our clutter and have a cape code style home with 1/2 story attic with no insulation. We have about 800 sq ft on the main floor with a kitchen, full small bath, 1 bedroom, living and dining room. I feel like framing in a second bedroom out of 1/3 of the living room to match the existing 10x10 bedroom which would force us to better manage our clutter, so I am always looking for stories on small living.


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## mosquitomountainman

Hey HB: You used to be able to buy house logs from the Forest Service. You contact them, tell them what you need (how many and what size) and they'd sell you a permit and mark the trees. After that you are on your own to cut, transport, and peel them. If I remember correctly the price was reasonable but it's a lot of work unless you hire it done.


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## sailaway

Ulrich Barn Builders look like the Amish Barns here in Ohio, I have drawn up plans for one that is more adaptable to my needs, just have to find some land.


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## SwampRat

*Kits*

I'm not a big fan of the kit cabins. They are cheaply made but they will charge you ALOT more then if you did it yourself!

Up here in the Northwoods, if you stay under 100 SqFt then you don't ned a permit...or if it not a "permenant structure" then you are ok as well. To make a shack up here not a "permant structure", we sink 4x4 posts in the ground and build the shack off the ground a little...


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## NaeKid

I have been looking more into the "mini-homes" .. found these gems!


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## Huntress

*Nice!!*

*Flatwater,,, I love the home and the way it is set up, It looks like a home I would love to build on the property when I find the land I'm looking for,, Thanks for sharing it with us...*


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## turkeydog

*The ancient ways grasshopper!*



JeepHammer said:


> What is the MINIMUM you can get away with for a 'Cabin'...
> You know, hunting 'Lodge', fishing 'Cabin', woods 'Shack', just someplace to camp and stay over a few nights mostly...
> 
> I'm running into more and more of the 'Yard Barns' out in the woods in different places.
> These can run from basic sheet metal 'Squats' to the much nicer and larger 'Mini Barns' you find on lots for sale...
> 
> What is the 'Minimum' you could get by with if you had to spend say, a month there!?
> 
> Would you build a shower and how would you do it?
> 
> Would you set up a 'Camp' around the 'Cabin', or would you start building onto it like a house?
> 
> Would you prefer something portable on a 'Utility Trailer' or something more 'Permanent'?


 Look up Yurt on google. worked for thousands of years in some of the windiest coldest inhabited terrain on earth. As for me, whats wrong with a dugout or soddy? hell, a cave if you can find one. Indians lived in buffalo and elk skin teepees in Dakota winters. I'd put up a montana canvas tent with a wood stove on a wooden platform if I was you.


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## pubwvj

Minimal? You could do it with a tent or lean too.

Comfortable & permanent? Our house is 252 sq-ft, built of masonry so it has a high thermal mass and inside a good insulating envelope. We're in the mountains of northern Vermont. Even without heating it the house floats in the +40°F range through the winter. We burn slightly _less_ than 0.75 cord of wood a winter to keep it in comfortably in the 60's to 70's. Cost of construction was $7,000 for materials - we did all the labor. It took us two months to go from bare ground to closed in with two adults, two teens and a small child helping. We have full plumbing, shower, kitchen, electric (LED lightning). Since this is our house we opted with permanent. As an added benefit, this house is extremely low maintenance. I like that.

See: http://SugarMtnFarm.com/cottage


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## LincTex

JeepHammer said:


> What is the MINIMUM you can get away with for a 'Cabin'...
> You know, hunting 'Lodge', fishing 'Cabin', woods 'Shack', just someplace to camp and stay over a few nights mostly...
> 
> What is the 'Minimum' you could get by with if you had to spend say, a month there!?


http://laptopandarifle.wordpress.com/


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## SwampRat

Up here, in the winter...we go ice fishing. Look up "Ice shanties" or "ice shacks" to get ideas for small cabins. I spent a week+ in mine out on the ice! Good livin' in small spaces!
My "shack" is an old camper tub. 12x7. VERY comfy!


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## HozayBuck

*Damn ! this thread has hung on for years so I went back and read my posts and had to laugh.. I ended up buying a 30'x12' prefabbed cabin.. then I went crazy and had it finished out inside with tongue and groove knoty poplar which is beautiful .. the bathroom is sectioned off and is 4' x 8' with a nice big shower... the rest is one room..the living area is 12 x 24 since the porch is 6 x 12.. I love it, it's warm and comfortable.. I haven't finished the kitchen area, I've decided to put in some cabinets instead of the shelves I put up.. all in all it's all I need and it's pleasant to be in... just me and the mutt.. *


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## woodsman23

My palce sits on 12 acres
built myself


----------



## woodsman23




----------



## woodsman23




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## The_Blob

... can't remember if this was mentioned...

http://www.ninetinyfeet.com/


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## LincTex

The_Blob said:


> ... can't remember if this was mentioned...
> 
> http://www.ninetinyfeet.com/


*Horrible* concept! 
A 4' x 8' trailer kit can be had from Harbor Freight for about $250 or so... and 32 square feet is barely liveable as it is, but WORLDS better than 9 square feet!


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## mdprepper

While I do agree that 9 ft would be rough, okay terrible, to live in. It is probably better then living in a tent. But many people have survived in tents for long periods of time. I bet to them 9 ft would be considered a luxury! It is all in the perspective and the mind set!


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## md1911

When I was a kid back in the early 70s one of my neighbors house and barn burnt down. They lived in a army tent for about 10 years. Husband wife and 6 kids. their


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## md1911

Their son and. I are good friends


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## SwampRat

People used to live in tool sheds during the last Depression. I have an out building or two that will house a few folks! I lived in a 29 foot camper for 2 years, quite nice! Better then a cardboard box out on the street!!!


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## LincTex

mdprepper said:


> But many people have survived in tents for long periods of time. I bet to them 9 ft would be considered a luxury! It is all in the perspective and the mind set!


Every tent I have ever owned was larger than 9 square feet.

Remember... 2' x 4.5' = 9ft2 
I have never had anything as small as that


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## SwampRat

LincTex said:


> Every tent I have ever owned was larger than 9 square feet.
> 
> Remember... 2' x 4.5' = 9ft2
> I have never had anything as small as that


Hell, a casket is bigger! No thanks!


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## md1911

Swamprat. You have a good point when my grandparents moved to Mo around 1948 they lived in two sheds pushed togather no floor in either one. My dad was 1 year old he had a little sister that was 8 mounths old and another on the way. They lived in that shed till dad was 5. All 3 of the kids lived and I have cousins by both my aunts. By the way those sheds are both 8 x 10


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## SwampRat

I think people have forgotten what is necessary for "living". Forgotten "basics". Lives are filled with gadgets.....it's sad. I was out of work for a year and lived in a 29ft camper. Lost everything..... people said how sad! Hell, I was grateful to have the camper and a place to sleep! Alot of people are going to go NUTS when SHTF. As for me, I am doing ALOT better now, working and living indoors. I still wonder if I was better off in the camper from time to time....


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## md1911

Swamprat. I'm sad to say I agrree with you. I find myself in a similer situation. However I will survive. I devorcid and ended up loesing 10 years worth of preps my home and preety much everything else. I live in a 400sq/ft trailer house. I rent and pay 1/2 my income in child support. Not to complain I'm working 80 hrs a week and barley making it. I buy some preps as I can and I encourage outher people to open their eyes. All my previous plans are wourthless. That being said I will survive.................... I prepare daily with what I can afford


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## SwampRat

md1911 said:


> Swamprat. I'm sad to say I agrree with you. I find myself in a similer situation. However I will survive. I devorcid and ended up loesing 10 years worth of preps my home and preety much everything else. I live in a 400sq/ft trailer house. I rent and pay 1/2 my income in child support. Not to complain I'm working 80 hrs a week and barley making it. I buy some preps as I can and I encourage outher people to open their eyes. All my previous plans are wourthless. That being said I will survive.................... I prepare daily with what I can afford


Hang in there! I live by the line: "God made life a gamble and I'm still in the game!"

It was a rough time. I lived off my preps, did without alot of things. Hate to say it but an animal or 2 MIGHT have slipped and fallen into my freezer out of season....accidents happen to critters too!....it was an interesting time. I grew from it, and I am confident that we will be ok when the SHTF...because it did for my family and we are still here! It sucked at the time but now I am grateful for the "trial run". It exposed some holes in the plan.....


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## md1911

Swamprat. Thanks I will make it I know.


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## SwampRat

md1911 said:


> Swamprat. Thanks I will make it I know.


yup...do what you have to do. The system will make ALL of us outlaws at some point. IF you have to break a few game laws to eat, then do it. Hell, dig through dumpsters if you have too.....most people have NO clue about what you are going through.....they would be SCREAMING at the Government for aid if they were in your shoes! Keep your head up, keep praying, and keep prepping when you can!


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## LdMorgan

Referring waaaaay back to Smithy's comment about using expanding foam for insulation: Best not!

Avoid expanding urethane foam whenever possible. Not only will it bulge your walls with the pressure of expansion, it'll exude formaldehyde gas for months & that's VERY unhealthy. 

Plain ole fiberglass batts ought to do the job a lot cheaper & easier, and they are non-flammable as well.

Urethane makes a very lethal smoke when it catches fire, BTW.


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## CrackbottomLouis

Instead of buying a shed and building it into something livable why not get a mobile trailer already built up. Ive been looking at the brand Scamp online and they seem like they might fit the bill if its just you or maybe 1 other. A truck with a camper top for storage and maybe a dual sport and youre in biz. A Scamp can come prewired for solar, runs off propane, has a kithen, shower and toilet. Self sufficiency in a mobile form interests me because I am not well off enough to own me some property yet. Just something to check out.


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## weedygarden

*tuff shed*

There was a design school that had an assignment for students to create a living space in a tuff shed. I looked for an article online about it and came up empty. Most of them had a loft bed, a dorm room size fridge, a microwave and more home comforts.

I know a woman who lives in a small one bedroom home. Her son became terminally ill and she had a tuff shed that she converted into a room for him. She is a designer type and has had pictures of her home in more than one magazine. She had the tough shed well decorated and it had a brass bed, a porta-potty dressed up to look like a stuffed chair, a crystal chandelier and an oriental rug. They heated it with a space heater and cooled it with a fan.

I have considered setting up a tuff shed on land also as a temporary shelter. It would be a temporary deal. I have also thought that an rv trailer or a mobile home would work as a temporary living space until more permanent housing could be built. You know more than one person has done this.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

if yer ever up by the lake of the ozark area, look me up md1911........we'll have a beer and some bbq and maybe a story or 3...........

here our big guest house....









smaller guest house waiting to be brought out to our new place...









and the main cabin.....


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## TheLazyL

JeepHammer said:


> What is the MINIMUM you can get away with for a 'Cabin'......Would you build a shower and how would you do it?...


I use a utility shed for my "cabin". 10' x 10' with a 10' x 4' loft for a second sleeping area.

Wet sink on the porch. Shower? Use the pond by the cabin.

White gas Coleman stove for cooking. I did spring for a LP heater (can't stand being cold).

Kerosene lanterns for lighting.

Heres' a few pictures: <Click Here>


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## pandamonium

Amazing........this thread is four years old!!!!

just sayin. :beercheer:


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## LincTex

TheLazyL said:


> I use a utility shed for my "cabin". 10' x 10' with a 10' x 4' loft for a second sleeping area. Wet sink on the porch. Shower? Use the pond by the cabin.White gas Coleman stove for cooking. I did spring for a LP heater (can't stand being cold).Kerosene lanterns for lighting.


Not bad! Mine does NOT "look as nice" as yours!
I have a sink inside, outdoor shower - both gravity fed water. Solar water heat from elevated water heater tank painted black. I still prefer to bath using a sauna. I have both Coleman white gas and propane camp stoves for cooking, I use the propane one 99% of the time. Cast iron boxwood stove for heat (doesn't take much!) on really cold days, otherwise a Mr Heater propane unit is plenty of heat. All lighting is LED, plus candles for "ambiance" when needed.


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## DJgang

TheLazyL said:


> I use a utility shed for my "cabin". 10' x 10' with a 10' x 4' loft for a second sleeping area.
> 
> Wet sink on the porch. Shower? Use the pond by the cabin.
> 
> White gas Coleman stove for cooking. I did spring for a LP heater (can't stand being cold).
> 
> Kerosene lanterns for lighting.
> 
> Heres' a few pictures: <Click Here>


I'm curious. Do you own this location? It appears to be a vacation spot for rental in a very nice RV campground.


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## TheLazyL

DJgang said:


> I'm curious. Do you own this location? It appears to be a vacation spot for rental in a very nice RV campground.


I own the "cabin" and lease the land.


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## kejmack

One thing that no one has mentioned and that is the psychological stress of living in a tiny space. I don't care how some of these tiny house people spin it, it is an adjustment to live in a small space. 

Five of us went from a 3000 sq ft home to live in a 900 sq foot home. If I am not careful to keep the place neat and organized, we start to feel like we are on top of each other. Aesthetics is also important. The nicer a place looks, the easier it is to deal with psychologically. 

In a SHTF situation, shelter stress is going to have a big effect on your sense of well-being.


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## twiggie

My wife and I intend to live in something like one of those large sheds like what you see in front of Home Depot. We're thinking about having one of those built and then building as much storage space into it as we possibly can while we finish it out ourselves. I don't know who has the copyright on this picture, sorry, but I'm thinking something like this.


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## prep4life

This is a great thread! Thanks to whoever brought it back to the top.


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## biobacon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...tails/178-1376158-3331920?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

Im thinking it might be nice to buy a set or two of these and keep them for just in case or for when i get to use em. I know its not set up to be that strong of a building but with some post dug in and a good fundation it would serve me. BTW i lived in a teepee for 8 weeks and they arnt too bad.


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## FrankW

back to the Original question.
In a pinch you can live in just a tent for a very long time.
our ancestors made do wiht less.
if its OD green or spomething tis real hard to spot too, just throw some branches over it.
Bug nets a must


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## cnsper

I have been living in a 10x10 shack for the last 6 months. There is still some work that needs to be done and I have planed to expand it to 10x20 and that should be enough for my self. 200 square feet. Outside, I have acres and acres to do stuff with. Will be digging a root cellar next spring. Several smaller portable buildings will also keep your taxes down as they are not permanent structures... Hint...


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## LincTex

biobacon said:


> I know its not set up to be that strong of a building


"Heavy Duty (UV) Plastic Resin Kit includes: 52 brackets, "

Forget that. I would rather spend the money on 25 lbs of screws.

There's nothing that kit full o' plastic brackets does that I can't do on a miter saw just as easily, and screw it all together and have something four times as strong.


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## stephengrem

TheLazyL said:


> I use a utility shed for my "cabin". 10' x 10' with a 10' x 4' loft for a second sleeping area.
> 
> Wet sink on the porch. Shower? Use the pond by the cabin.
> 
> White gas Coleman stove for cooking. I did spring for a LP heater (can't stand being cold).
> 
> Kerosene lanterns for lighting.
> 
> Heres' a few pictures: <Click Here>


 That is a beautiful cabin. How long did it take you to make? And if it's alright for me to ask what is the price range to build something like that?
I hate to make the stupid reference but it looks a lot like The cabin in red dead redemption.


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## helicopter5472

Turtle said:


> Neat thread. My wife and I were actually talking the other day about a buying a piece of land that we found for 85k for 5 acres and we found a place that does log cabins for around 20k . . . she actually seemed kind of excited about the idea, which is really shocking considering the fact that she doesn't want to go camping with me because (and this is a quote) her idea of "roughing it" would be "staying at a Holiday Inn." lol


Wow land is expensive there... I have 56 ac. here in central Maine with right of way to a river I'll sell ya for for 35K...


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## smaj100

We recently purchased a small "shed" from lowes. They delivered up to 40 miles for free. They delivered it to the farm for the wife to store tack and gear in. The guy that delivered put it exactly where she wanted it, leveled it and left. It's about 20x14 or so with double doors and 2 windows as well as loft storage. In a shtf emergency this could easily be insulated and updated a bit to live in, and with some more work could be expanded to be something nice in a post shtf world.... 

I agree with several of the others comments, the last thing you will want to be doing a lot of is working on a place to survive when you'll be busy farming, hunting and trying to make sure everyone is cared for.

As I read some of the other comments I, immediately started thinking wow some collapsible bunk beds, table and some rudimentary cabs or shelving it could be a decent place to live in if it came down to it.


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## WWhermit

I've actually been thinking about burying a storage container underground, and having the access come up into a 12x12 shed that would be converted into something similar to those fancy little microhomes. The main problem I see with microhomes is storage. With a 48 ft freight storage container underneath, with the only viable access being from inside the cabin, I think many of the problems would be solved.

Find a property where a well could be dug, get some propane tanks, and I think we'd have a pretty great long term bugout location!


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## ras1219como

WWhermit said:


> I've actually been thinking about burying a storage container underground, and having the access come up into a 12x12 shed that would be converted into something similar to those fancy little microhomes. The main problem I see with microhomes is storage. With a 48 ft freight storage container underneath, with the only viable access being from inside the cabin, I think many of the problems would be solved.
> 
> Find a property where a well could be dug, get some propane tanks, and I think we'd have a pretty great long term bugout location!


That is an excellent idea! I like it


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## Wellrounded

We're in a mild climate and it gets below freezing but only just and not often. I've lived in tents, caravans and single room cabins. Living is not an issue , it's work area that I need. I've always said "little tiny house, great big shed", lol. We lived for years in one room at the end of a barn/shed, we are now converting the rest of the barn to 'house' although most is storage and work space. Because of our climate we can do a lot of our living outside, including cooking, eating and are in the process of building a larger outdoor bathroom (the indoor one is just a shower cubicle). We don't really need anymore living space for ourselves but we do have large groups here at times so want more communal living area. If we find a time in the future where there will be more permanent residents here, the main 'house' will become community area and each family unit will build a cabin with the basics. What we have built so far is with that in mind.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

concernedcitizen said:


> Whatever happened to the TeePee.... You could make one with a tarp. Are your average tarps large enough to make one with though, is what I am unsure of.


here's our 'little teepee'...12 feet tall by 30 foot diameter.......good for spring-summer-fall.......winter might be a bit chilly....









it all fits in a nice lil' duffle bag not much bigger than a sleep-system bag.


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## cnsper

A cabin ain't a cabin lessin it be made out of logs. Other than that it is a shack... Maybe even a squatters shack... LOL


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## thenance007

Anyone ever considered a pole barn? You can buy the kits cheap here in TN:

"30' x 40' METAL BUILDING (POLE BARN) OTHER SIZES AVAILABLE - $4550 (Smyrna, TN)
THE "SHELL KIT" PRICE INCLUDES ALL POSTS, ALL FRAMING, ALL TRUSSES (PREFABRICATED), ALL METAL (FOR ROOF AND EXTERIOR WALLS), RIDGE CAP, FASTENERS (SCREWS FOR THE METAL), AND 1 PEDESTRIAN DOOR ("MAN DOOR").

THIS IS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO CONSTRUCT THE BUILDING FRAME AND COMPLETELY COVER THE ROOF AND WALLS WITH METAL (NAILS FOR FRAMING AND CONCRETE NOT INCLUDED).

I CAN CUSTOMIZE THE DIMENSIONS OR HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING PACKAGE TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS. HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES: 30' X 40' X 10' SHELL KIT - $4550 30' X 48' X 10' SHELL KIT - $4985 40' X 42' X 10' SHELL KIT - $5950 40' X 60' X 10' SHELL KIT - $7750 40' X 96' X 10' SHELL KIT - $11125
"

My thought is to start with one of these for lots of privacy and storage space, then build an underground bunker inside using a backhoe, and using the dirt as a berm. You could finish and insulate one corner of the barn for living, expanding as you went. Plenty of room for secure storage and work space. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck.


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## AuroraHawk

Tribal Warlord Thug said:


> here's our 'little teepee'...12 feet tall by 30 foot diameter.......good for spring-summer-fall.......winter might be a bit chilly....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it all fits in a nice lil' duffle bag not much bigger than a sleep-system bag.


For a while I did my camping in a Native American style lean-pi. Tipis have several poles lashed together at the top, are open at the top, most have a liner inside so any moisture that condensates on the sides rolls down the outside canvas/hide cover rather than down the back of folks sitting around the inside "wall," and were large enough to house a family or hold a council meeting. The lean-pi has 1-3 poles which fit into a reinforced circular pocket at the top, are held up by the hide/canvas cover, and are usually made to be just big enough for 2-4 people to sleep.


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## cqp33

All you folks talking about building microhomes/barns/sheds/whatever with standard 2x4/2x6/whatever construction materials need to reconsider using lumber purchased from places like HD. I recommend you find someone that owns a portable saw mil and get in touch with them to see if they have any lumber for sale! Most will and it is true to size (meaning actually 2"x4" instead of the "dimensional lumber" that is 1 5/8" x 3 1/2"). I built a 16' x 20' barn building with a big room upstairs for under $10,000 with lumber like this, even used 1" x 10" for siding and roof decking, the 1 x 10's were cheaper than buying plywood when purchased like this from a local sawyer! Just a thought for you guys to save some greenbacks!


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## jeff47041

thenance007 said:


> Anyone ever considered a pole barn? You can buy the kits cheap here in TN:
> 
> "30' x 40' METAL BUILDING (POLE BARN) OTHER SIZES AVAILABLE - $4550 (Smyrna, TN)
> THE "SHELL KIT" PRICE INCLUDES ALL POSTS, ALL FRAMING, ALL TRUSSES (PREFABRICATED), ALL METAL (FOR ROOF AND EXTERIOR WALLS), RIDGE CAP, FASTENERS (SCREWS FOR THE METAL), AND 1 PEDESTRIAN DOOR ("MAN DOOR").
> 
> THIS IS EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO CONSTRUCT THE BUILDING FRAME AND COMPLETELY COVER THE ROOF AND WALLS WITH METAL (NAILS FOR FRAMING AND CONCRETE NOT INCLUDED).
> 
> I CAN CUSTOMIZE THE DIMENSIONS OR HEIGHT OF THE BUILDING PACKAGE TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS. HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES: 30' X 40' X 10' SHELL KIT - $4550 30' X 48' X 10' SHELL KIT - $4985 40' X 42' X 10' SHELL KIT - $5950 40' X 60' X 10' SHELL KIT - $7750 40' X 96' X 10' SHELL KIT - $11125
> "
> 
> My thought is to start with one of these for lots of privacy and storage space, then build an underground bunker inside using a backhoe, and using the dirt as a berm. You could finish and insulate one corner of the barn for living, expanding as you went. Plenty of room for secure storage and work space. Seems like a lot of bang for the buck.


Several years ago, I nuilt someone a 50' wide x 70' long pole barn and put a nice little 20x30 apartment in one corner for them. The couple still live in it, but I'm pricing a house for them now because the one thing they have always been unhappy about is not being able to see out.

In the apartment, there are windows in the end and on one side, but the apt is in the back corner so they can't see the driveway or road.


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## cnsper

jeff47041 said:


> Several years ago, I nuilt someone a 50' wide x 70' long pole barn and put a nice little 20x30 apartment in one corner for them. The couple still live in it, but I'm pricing a house for them now because the one thing they have always been unhappy about is not being able to see out.
> 
> In the apartment, there are windows in the end and on one side, but the apt is in the back corner so they can't see the driveway or road.


Security cameras and a monitor will fix that and it is a lot cheaper than the house.

Here, if you are building your home and do not use a contractor, you do not need to have a building permit. Well I was looking at a 40x70 Quonset hut, I will just not use the whole thing for my house... LOL


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## Schneb

Love the ideas on the thread, but one thing I worry about is how to secure a cabin/shed that I only get to on weekends/in the summer. Shipping containers have a certain appeal on that basis I agree with the idea that they take a lot of effort to convert. There's a guy with a blog about his cabin made from shipping containers and the difficulty of getting contractors to cut the metal, and insulate (which are not skills I have) vs. building with wood (which I'm pretty comfortable doing) leaves me leery of going for that version of security. Also, even though these issues are covered on that blog, there are 'unknowns' (for me) as far as what kinds of problems might come from condensation, how to run wires, etc.

So I'm thinking the prefab shed idea looks pretty good.

But what do you who have a woodsy cabin do to keep down/discourage kids who are curious and morally challenged, etc. from leaving you a mess to deal with when you show up for a weekend?

Of course, if you were going to leave anything there for bug out purposes, this would be an even bigger question.


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## LincTex

Schneb said:


> 1) I worry about how to secure a cabin/shed that I only get to on weekends/in the summer.
> 
> 2) the difficulty of getting contractors to cut the metal,
> 
> 3) how to run wires, etc.
> 
> 4) But what do you who have a woodsy cabin do to keep down/discourage kids who are curious and morally challenged, etc. from leaving you a mess to deal with when you show up for a weekend?


1) It's a serious problem. You need some serious bars over the windows (or solid steel shutters) and a "Russian" door (LOL, I'll have to explain that one sometime!) The better it's built, the harder it will be to get inside.

2) Not hard to do. 4-1/2" angle grinder with cutting wheels works wonder on the thin stuff (corrugated sides) and a cutting torch for the thick stuff. *Always* remember to use bracing to support an area you plan to do major surgery to, like removing sidewalls so two containers can be side-to-side.

You will really need to know your way around your welding machine... how it operates, and how YOU operate IT. Cutting a container is easy, but you better be able to weld what you want to (if modifying it, which is what it sounds like you intend to do)

3) Easy. EMT conduit to run wires inside, That's how I do it.

You can buy entire spray-foam insulation kits on ebay.

4) see number one


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## hiwall

Building something out of cement (blocks and/or poured) is fairly inexpensive and within the capabilities of most able-bodied people.


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## TheLazyL

Had to sell mine <"Cabin">

I'd spend the weekend and help the Gun Club setup and run their matches.

The was difference in opinion between the Property Owner and the Gun Club on how Club's money should be spent. And since there wasn't any written agreement between them a coup resulted.

And since I didn't have a written agreement thought it was best for me to sell out while I could. 

It was a excellent BOL


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## Tyler520

The trouble with micro homes is determining the user's program(e.g., what will it be needed/used for?) 

in today's society, it is very difficult to not go overboard, and just keep adding rooms and fixtures.

One of my favorite precedents is the Maquand Retreat by Miller/Hull Architects


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