# Cigarettes



## Edwin Billingsworth

I was thinking that having a carton of cigarettes in my kit would be a good bartering item. Does anybody know the shelf life of cigarettes in a sealed plastic zip lock baggie?


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## McPrepared

I think that would be a great idea! What kind would you get? lol I would probably get Marboro Reds or maybe whatever kind was on sale/buy 1 get 1 free type thing.


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## ryan28801

*smokin'*

That's a downright smokin' idea. 

I have a smoke occasionally , but I think I'd trade them all for some grub or clean water as needed....gotta have your priorities!


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## TechAdmin

I think a much better solution would be buy roll your own tobacco. You can buy a higher grade than most mainstream brands and it will be much cheaper. Throw in a couple packs of ZigZags and you got a cheaper more efficient solution.


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## JeepHammer

Dean said:


> I think a much better solution would be buy roll your own tobacco. You can buy a higher grade than most mainstream brands and it will be much cheaper. Throw in a couple packs of ZigZags and you got a cheaper more efficient solution.


My dad chain smokes, and he was amazed how long you can keep cigarettes in a freezer bag (no vacuum)...

Use the vacuum, suck out all the 'Air' you can get out.
Use your welder and inject Argon, CO2, or what ever DRY & INERT gas you have around,
Then seal up the bag with the heater element.

The idea isn't to have vacuum, but to have the oxygen and moisture sucked out,
Then replaced with dry Inert gas with NO OXYGEN.

I got dad cartons and evacuated the oxygen out and replaced with inert gasses, and they were still 'Fresh' after a year!
(.35 cents a pack off an Indian reservation, but no tax stamp, so don't try this at home kiddies!)

I learned this trick from the jerky companies.
They pack the jerky in all sorts of strange gasses,
Carbon Monoxide,
Carbon Dioxide,
Argon,
Ect.

The military stores food, bullets, missile parts, ect. the same way.
No oxygen, no corrosion!

You can keep in the bottom of the can from skimming over by doing the same thing in the can, 
Replace the oxygen with argon or carbon dioxide and it won't skim over or dry up in the bottom of the can...
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As for Loose tobacco vs. rolled cigarettes, 
Storage would favor the loose tobacco.
Trade value would favor packs of factory rolled cigarettes.

Cigars and pipe tobacco would both be very good trading material for tobacco addicts...
Cigars and pipes can be put out and re lit again and again with little to now loss, you can't do that with a cigarette...

BUT,
I believe the trading value would still be with factory rolled, pre-packaged cigarettes...
-------------------------------

Now, I don't believe in the 'End Of The World As We Know It' crap,
BUT,
When I was a kid, my grandpa used to trade with the 'River Rats', Coffee, bacon, smokes, ect.

I don't think I ever had to cut any fire wood after they found out we weren't going to feed them breakfast including coffee and bacon if they didn't contribute to the wood pile, or bring eels, fish, turtles to throw in the frying pan for dinner!
We NEVER wanted for stuff like that at the river, and all it usually took was some bacon, a couple of cups of real coffee and a smoke or two!

Times have changed, and society in general doesn't allow 'River Rats' to mind their own business and sustain themselves on the river anymore...
Everyone has to 'Conform' and be in the 'System' or they are cast as killers, thieves & perverts!

Personally, I'm respectful to everyone, and down right polite to most people I meet down at the river or out in the woods, and it's ALWAYS returned...
(Unless they are wearing brand new cammo and carrying brand new gear!...)


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## Frank

Jeephammer that ther was a mouth full
"Personally, I'm respectful to everyone, and down right polite to most people I meet down at the river or out in the woods, and it's ALWAYS returned..." 
Yea me to
(Unless they are wearing brand new cammo and carrying brand new gear!...) 
to me that is down right antagonizing, everybody at some point goes out with brand new stuff it is what it is.


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## O'BANNON

Buying rolling tobacco does sound like a good idea...unless whoever wants them doesn't know how to roll their own, in which case I'm betting they would figure it out quickly though.


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## Jerseyzuks

Frank said:


> to me that is down right antagonizing, everybody at some point goes out with brand new stuff it is what it is.


There is a specific group that comes to mind...

When I go out flyfishing, I usually have a flyrod, and a few flies in a small box in my shirt pocket, and a baseball cap to sheild my eyes from the sun. If the weather (and the water) is warm enough, I will usually will be wading in shorts and an old pair of sneakers.

Splashing down the river comes 3 idiots with $1000 flyrods, dress head to toe in everything they could possibly buy from Orvis & LL Bean, tags still on half of their "equipment", graphite framed landing net, 45 pocket vest, every pocket filled with some gadget or gimmick to catch fish. Between them they have one trout, and it isn't even one they caught, they just scooped it up after it laughed to death.


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## JeepHammer

We call them 'Christmas Hunters', 
They are out there in all their 'Christmas' gear, stomping around, generally ruining hunting/fishing for everyone else...

I just smile, wave,...
Get stared at because I smiled and waved at them for no apparent reason,

...And then I go home or back to camp until things settle down and the fish/game comes back.

Last weekend we went camping at a local lake that is REAL popular with 'Out of town' fishermen...
Just about daylight, there are (no exaggeration) boats making about 40 trips back and forth around the point where we were camping...

Then about 8:00 AM, while me, the girl friend, her sister, a 3 year old nephew and two other kid under the age of 10 from another camp are setting around and we are dishing up the SECOND breakfast for the boys, 
We hear LOUD cussing about, 
"NO F#&$ING FISH IN THIS F#&$ING LAKE!"

So, in a normal conversational voice, my girlfriend says to them, "Please watch your language, we have small children up here."

To which both occupants in the boat let go with a string of obscenity that would make a Marine blush...
And I'm a Marine.

Must be nice to be that stupid and not have any idea of how they look to other people.
Also must be nice to be able to say and do things to people you assume are unarmed or won't deal with you later when women and children aren't around.

Just a word to the wise, even though you don't hear banjos playing in the background, 
Don't piss the natives off, you never know when they know EXACTLY where you camp ground, boat trailer and big over sized dual wheel pickup is....


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## NaeKid

JeepHammer:

That reminds me of a story that my brother told me .. 

My brother is a forestry tech, he told me all kinds of stories of non-locals out hunting. One story was a time when he was on a survey of the forest and landed on two hunters.

The hunters started going on and on about the area was supposed to be filled with game and they were from the city hunting to bring back a prize and .... then .... WTH??? Where did you guys come from?

These "hunters" thought they were so far from civilization that no-one would ever find them.

Never forget that when you are in the back-40, the locals have been there first, and will be there after you are gone.


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## bwh0069

*cigs*

Most tobacco is aged for several years before the cigarette process


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## mitchshrader

i store roll your own (premium) tobacco with OCB brand papers, in used (free) cigar boxes. a dash of booze, a week in a hot spot, tape it up and freeze it.. no brainer. for 10-12$ I can get 200-300 hand rolled cigarettes that have taste.. I buy Drum tobacco online, add some turkish for smoothness and dark shag for flavor, a dash of whichever booze is open (usually cognac) and a few days to blend & mellow.. then -20F for the duration.. long term i'd foodsaver the cigar boxes.. keep meaning to.. hasn't mattered yet.. 

but they'll trade, and even better, make for a real enjoyable rich soft smoke that isn't but half price.. even counting PX or smokeshop pricing... 

not healthy of course, but i'd planned on dyin' anyway..


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## Canadian

I keep several cases of booze and packs of smokes for barter - or for guests.


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## MasterSergeantUSAF

Ditto with Canadian....long ago I stored away several hundred cartons of cigarettes and several cases of cheap whiskey, vodka, tequila and rum thinking one day they'd be useful for bartering. Still waiting for that day....


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## TheUrbanSurvivalist

I quit smoking a while back. I still have a bag of tobacco, some papers and some filtered tubes lying around "just in case". The tobacco lives in the back of the freezer. I imagine that even if it's a little stale there will still be a lot of demand for it.


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## Magus

Edwin Billingsworth said:


> I was thinking that having a carton of cigarettes in my kit would be a good bartering item. Does anybody know the shelf life of cigarettes in a sealed plastic zip lock baggie?


I recently smoked some that came out of a Vietnam-era C-ration pack.

They smoke.a bit rough,but they'll fix a nicotine fit.I'd keep them in some kind of permanently sealed vacuum pack until needed.my Y2K smokes kept three years in a 5 gallon drum with a screw-off lid.


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## Al-Thi'b

Edwin Billingsworth said:


> I was thinking that having a carton of cigarettes in my kit would be a good bartering item. Does anybody know the shelf life of cigarettes in a sealed plastic zip lock baggie?


You can freeze them or keep them chilled and out of sunlight and they will still be fairly fresh almost a year later.


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## Doomsayer

tabacco would be a good item to ave i plan to have several cartons and containers of loose tobacco here...but what about TP i tink not just for personel use but trade if you have enough could keep you supplier quit awhile if not allow you to acquire items for defense.


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## Tribal Warlord Thug

"Pre made cigarettes such as Marlboro, Mayfair B&H Silvers are vacuum sealed in the plastic wrapping so they will last for 5-7 years in the box, however if the box is opened to the elements then the shelf life goes down dramatically. My Marlboro Red's lasted for 2 months during my non-smoking era, after the 2 months there was mold and all other sorts of furry things growing all over the cigarettes.

Rolling tobacco lasts the same when sealed but does go rather "crispy" after 5 months. If the tobacco isn't sealed then your looking at a shelf life of 1 week due the moisture in the actual product (Golden Virgina has the most moisture)." 


off of an answer.com site............i dont smoke but they are a good item for bartering services....all vice-related items will be.


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## UncleJoe

I guess I'll jump in on this one.
Last March before the new federal excise tax went into effect, DW and I (we make our own cigs) bought 50# of tobacco in 1# bags. We keep it stored in plastic totes in the cellar. It is just as fresh today as it was a year ago.


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## alanz

I've thought about keeping some cigarettes for this purpose. But I just quit smoking a few months ago and having them in the house would be too tempting.


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## HarleyRider

Congratulations on quitting. :congrat:

I'm still trying to quit.


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## Kriket

JeepHammer said:


> Also must be nice to be able to say and do things to people you assume are unarmed or won't deal with you later when women and children aren't around.


Fart that, Women are the ones you have to worry about. Women are smart and patient. It may be three days later, but somehow their rain fly in missing and the clouds are rolling in. :sssh:


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## ShadowSGT

If your tobacco dries you can place a slice of apple or other fruit in a closed bag to remoisten it. Rehydrated fruit froma MRE works here also. Fresh is better if available.


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## Diego2112

I've been using the same bag of tobacco for around three months now (I roll my own/smoke a pipe, it's for my nerves), and it's just as good now as the day I got it. No refridgeration, no airtight sealing no NOTHING, just sitting no my dresser in it's bag, alongside my Top rolling paper and filters.

Although I WILL have to try adding some brandy to it... Just out of principal.

Yes, that's right, I'm a budding survivalist, a smoker, and a social drinker. Thank GOD I was raised by shiners and tobacco farmers. I can survive (as my wingman calls it) "The Scenario (whatever that may be)."

So, to all you smokers/drinkers, here's a big 'ole :beercheer: for ya all! Eat and drink, for tomorrow, we die!


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## JeepHammer

Tobacco has some medicinal uses...
Antiseptic/Antibacterial (The stuff is just so toxic not even microbes can survive in it!) and it makes a wormer if eaten.

We grow/sell 'Ceremonial' tobacco, pretty much the 'Dirt Weed' of tobacco, not the premium stuff grown for tobacco that goes into cigarettes/cigars/pipe tobacco.
This is more like the stuff from a couple of hundred years ago, very hearty 'Weed' more than refined farm crop...

The Hybrid smoking tobaccos are man manipulated to where they have a lot of issues with bugs, disease, root problems, ect.
This stuff we grow is more like the tobacco the Native Americans knew.

Anyway, it sells REALLY WELL with the 'Pow-Wow' bunch and the 'Earth Pagan' types.
More incense than smoking tobacco.
I can easily get $15 to $20 for a knotted bundle weighing around 1 ounce right now...
Collage kids and the 'Pow Wow' bunch will shell out parents bucks right and left for this stuff!

Same with broom sage weeds that I usually wind up spraying to get them out of the pastures!
Braid that stuff up, label it 'Ceremonial', and you are looking at $75 to $100 a pound for weeds that are growing EVERYWHERE around here!

Anyway, Cigarettes would sell if there weren't a total collapse,
But if it were the 'End Of The World' everyone keeps harping about,
Food, Water, Medical will be better off since you won't be 'Trading' in a true apocalyptic world...

Sever depression, break down in government services, or in the transportation network and there will be local trade like mad!
You WILL Need something to trade that will SUSTAIN YOU.
Spot items like medicine or tobacco will do you for a short while,
But you need RENEWABLE SKILLS OR PRODUCE/PRODUCTION to sustain you,
Just like it is right now... If you don't have a job, you are screwed!

Bananas and citrus will be a thing of the past until someone finds a way to import them back up this way from sub-tropical zones,
And believe me, They WILL find a way in short order if there is enough profit in it!

Tobacco SEEDS will be in pretty large demand, it's pretty easy to grow and it grows in my climate zone so I thought 'Why Not' when I ran onto some seeds...
Makes good side money along with the produce, decorative plants along with gourdes and such, ect. the garden/orchard produce.


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## gypsysue

Very sensible information, and presented in a nice manner! Thanks, JH


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## JeepHammer

Logical discussions are usually fine,
It's when folks take a guttural/reactionary position does it get nasty.

Since there is only ONE way to grow plants in dirt, guys can't argue much about it.

I grow about everything I run across at one time or another...
Not all at the same time, but I have this or that, two or three things I haven't done before every year.
That gives me a stockpile of seeds, lets me make mistakes with small batches so it doesn't effect my bottom line or regular food production,
And I get to make a LOT of mistakes without loosing anything but a little time.

No one has ALL the answers, and NO ONE is right all the time,
This is all experimentation, in EVERY aspect of your time on this mud ball, 
So dismissing ANYTHING you haven't tried, or being intolerant of ANYTHING but stupidity/wastefulness (usually one and the same) is going to handicap you...

I experiment with EVERYTHING, the more I learn, the more mistakes I make.
I can make mistakes now when things are available and it's not a huge issue,
But if a great depression or natural disaster that can't be relieved in a week or two (like volcanic eruption somewhere that causes a 'Little Ice Age'...) happens and you are on your own for months or years, you will have the tools to deal with the situation without making a ton of mistakes...

I'm not the last word in ANYTHING, and people that pretend to be ANNOY ME!
There's not a day goes by that I don't screw something up!
Just mowed through the 'Drip Water' irrigation line to the garden this morning,
So I'm a LONG WAY from perfect!

The up side of that is,
I'm experimenting with 'Drip Watering' to conserve water resources,
And I'm using ground cover (Cardboard, news papers, excessive packaging) to control weeds, keep moisture in the ground, reduce evaporation, ect...
That means drip watering...
Which has worked VERY WELL for the past 4 or 5 years!

Huge reduction in weeds, huge reduction in required watering, good run off when excessive rains hit, my roots don't rot and the ground doesn't get over saturated,
And I'm finding a use for all those cardboard boxes inside cardboard boxes they seem to ship everything in these days...
Instead of burning or filling land fills with them!

My tobacco plants seem to respond to the drip watering and ground cover really well,
the only plants that don't are really shallow root plants, like corn.
The corn seems to like the Dry/Saturation cycles more than the drip watering/covered roots most of the rest of the garden likes...

So, if you want try drip watering,
take a RIGID garden hose, like those old vinyl hoses were stiff as a board,
Lay it out along your plant lines,
Take a VERY small drill and put a hole or two at each plant...

When the plant emerge, cover the entire plat root ball and the row between plants with cardboard, papers, what ever will compost/rot over a full season in the garden...

When the cardboard/paper mats down and clings to the earth,
You can take your weights or spikes up that were holding it down.
I use round river rocks about the size of a baseball simply because I have a bunch of them...

The cardboard chokes off the weeds, allows the moisture you give them to stay in the ground instead of evaporating, so it takes MUCH less water to keep the garden going...

If you use that pre-made drip hose, make sure you mark the drip holes with a 'Zip' tie or paint stripe!
I got ALL the plants in the wrong spots the first year I tried to use that stuff!
Where I 'Thought' the drip holes were... They weren't!

If you use the Pre-made hose, make sure you plant your garden with plant spacing that matches the spacing on the holes!
Yup, I did that too! Only about every 4th or 5th plant got water correctly!
Now I plow/disk the garden, lay off my rows,
Stretch out the hose, and use the wire ties or paint stripes to lay out the plants so they match up with the holes in the lines!

Makes things MUCH easier when you stretch out the water line and use it to keep your rows straight and plant spaces correct!

I buy the hard plastic line now, and drill my own drip holes...
This allows me to correct spacing for different types of plants instead of watering in places I don't have anything...
Or having the plants getting OVER WATERED because there is a drip hole on both sides of it...

Like I said, experimentation...
If you never make mistakes, then disregard and give respects to your dad (God)...
If you DO make mistakes, then EXPERIMENT, see what works and what doesn't work for you.

Be tolerant, listen to EVERY hair brained idea that anyone comes up with...
Sift though the information to see if there is ANY PART of it you can glean to help you out!
Some guys are WAY out there, but they might have a good idea hidden in all the BS, so don't dismiss everything at once...


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## kbamvakais

I have some but not for trading, for consumption me with out smokes equals certain death for stupid people, lol


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## gypsysue

Thanks, JeepHammer, that's wonderful information. It would really come in handy in our dry climate here. I like the cardboard idea. Boxes are easy for us to get. Since we have to haul water (no well) anything that cuts down on water use is helpful. The homemade drip hoses are a great idea.


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## Diego2112

JeepHammer;
WONDERFUL advice! Thanks kindly... Do you think that it would/could work for container gardening (Living in City Limits limits my gardening, so I use 5gal buckets with holes in the bottom)? I think I'll have to try that here soon... I SHOULD have enough time to try it on some better boys...

:beercheer:, friend!


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## Concretin

kbamvakais said:


> I have some but not for trading, for consumption me with out smokes equals certain death for stupid people, lol


Roger that. JH, are your tobacco seeds white burley? That is what I have set back. I grew some one summer when I lived in CO, did my best to cure it right (hanging, shaded smoke). When I rolled some cigarillos (using corn husks a la Los Taosinos in the 1800s) and smoked it, it was an experience.


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## JeepHammer

What I grow is 'Heritage' seeds, I don't know what classification they are,
they go back to before the 'hybrid' seeds grown for modern tobacco, and they smell like weeds and oil when burned.

I knew I didn't have a chance to make a dime on modern 'Smoking' tobacco,
Large scale farms can kick my butt on both quality and production, so no since in a novice like me trying to compete.

I grew the 'Specialty Market' version, the advertising hook is the REAL ceremonial tobacco used by pagans and Native Americans...
And you know collage types, always wanting to be 'Different' and 'Experience' the 'Real' thing they spend their parents money on it like crazy!

The up side is no smoking, no curing, just dry it, twist it up in 'Ropes' and sell it off in packages with a picture of an 'Indian' smoke bathing...

As far as growing it in a 5 gallon bucket,
I would caution about watering.
Buckets can be too wet or too dry in a heartbeat, and tobacco spends about 3 months where it's VERY sensitive to water.
Once it starts drying out in late summer, it's pretty easy to work with,
But they REALLY like moisture/humidity when growing.

Another cash crop that isn't nearly as sensitive is LAVENDER!
That stuff sells like CRAZY, and it's pretty much a weed, you plant it, water it once in a while, and leave it alone and it will take off like crazy!

Every 'Foo-Foo' shop in town wants LAVENDER!
Flowers, leaves/stems, oil, even the roots if you pull them will sell like crazy.
I have a soap maker that will buy ANYTHING lavender.
He sells some of his soaps for $75 bucks a bar, most run $10 a bar or more, and he's CLEANING UP!

Green and dried lavender sell like crazy for those goofy floral arrangements,
(I call them 'Bird's Nests' people hang over doors or plug into the center of tables)
And the old press I though I would never find a use for produces lavender oil, which I simply can't grow enough of...

One word of caution, DO NOT let your livestock consume the remains.
I don't know if it's poison to them, or if it just balls the digestive tracts up, but they don't do well at all...

My 'Little Woman' thinks it stinks good, but she doesn't have everything in the house smelling like it, I guess when the press is running or we are cutting she gets enough of it.


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