# Antibiotics



## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

O.K., I ain't a doctor, didn't even play one on TV. What antibiotics do folks keep on hand?

I have doxycyclene for Lyme.

I have Flagyl for giardia.

I bought some Amoxicillin/clavulanic acid 875/125 in Mexico.

Without getting wrapped around the axle I would like a few antibiotics on hand that would work on most diseases I am likely to encounter. Something that would work on just about everthing/not the first choice on anything would suit my needs perfectly.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

I got serious about this subject after watching "Patriot Nurse" tutorials on You Tube. She posts on all manner of medical issues relating to post-shtf, including antibiotics. Watch them twice- or three times, as I have. I cannot over-recommend her videos enough.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

pawpaw said:


> I got serious about this subject after watching "Patriot Nurse" tutorials on You Tube. She posts on all manner of medical issues relating to post-shtf, including antibiotics. Watch them twice- or three times, as I have. I cannot over-recommend her videos enough.


I watched one of her videos and there were a few big glaring errors of what treats what. She did exactly what she said she would do which is dumb it down for non medical folks. She worked backwards and basically says, these few are cheap and easy to obtain and can treat this this and this. A few of those antibiotics haven't been recommended to treat certain diseases for decades as they aren't effective. Before spending hundreds of dollars on abx, I would consider learning the basics of gram staining and what medical issues you might face. spending $25 on 100 pills of fishmox doesn't even two courses of treating a facial infection. It's not going to benefit an abdominal wound or GI issue without flagyl. I'm not saying its a waste, but it can get expensive quick. Both the fish abx and the survival abx packages are a easy may to make a buck off the prepping community. It's a legal loophole and an easy one to exploit.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f3/basic-herbal-course-9814/

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f3/fish-antibiotics-antibiotic-uses-11003/


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Fish Mox Forte ..500 MG

Well, shoot, I just wasted my money!!

Wonder if I can cancel that order of fish Flex??


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

You can buy most antibiotics in Mexico cheap without prescription.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

You can buy them in Mexico or online. Just keep in mind that Antibiotics are the most counterfeited medicines and account for 28% of global counterfeit medicines. Counterfeit antibiotics are estimated at 5% of the global antibiotic market. TED did a great talk about this last year. It a huge issue worldwide. Unless you have a source for chromotography (HPLC or Gas) as well as the standard which you can order from merck for a little over $100 - then you just have to trust what you're getting is legit. Luckily, if you purchase from a US, most Canadian, or VIPPS online pharmacy - there is protection from this. I once tested carisoprodol from Mexico and the drug peaked all over the place and ruined a column. I couldn't tell exactly what it was, but its spectrum was nothing like what is sold here. It made some friends think twice about cheap college thrills.

I laugh when I hear about looking up the identification numbers in a PDR and matching it to the pills as a source of legitimacy. Go on ebay and search for pill press. For less than a grand, you can get into the illegal pharmaceutical biz. Need to make sure you dont get caught? (sarcasm here, I am not promoting this) Sell a sugar/talc tab to a select group of people that will buy a lot of it and likley not use it. If they do use it, they wont have any avenues to complain to if it does absolutely nothing. Antibiotics are an easy mark for counterfitting.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

When you buy antibiotics in Mexico there is a wide range of prices. For instance you can by generic doxycyclene about $0.10/table or a Mexican name brand for two or three times as much. The amoxocilin/clauvanic acid I bought was Valclan packaged the same way it would be in the states, tamper proof seal, lot #, ect. The pharmacies do a huge business with snow birds. In the little town of Progresso there are probably a hundred pharmacies. You can walk down the street and see license plates from every state in the union except maybe Hawaii.

I seldom get sick but I saw what can happen. I picked up a tick borne disease called anaplasmoisis. It did a number on me before I got some treatment. Wound up in the hospital in Hersey, PA. Got tested for Lyme half a dozen times. If it had not been a teaching hospital they would have never figured it out. A course of doxicyclene would have stopped it in it tracks.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

UncleJoe said:


> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f3/basic-herbal-course-9814/
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f3/fish-antibiotics-antibiotic-uses-11003/


You beat me to it ...


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Ofcourse they can't all be counterfits; there wouldn't be a market. counterfitting packaging is getting pretty convincing to the point of placing RDIF tags similar to those that pfizer has started tagging its products with. It might raise the cost of production of a counterfit, but when you cut out the quality control, the cost of manufacturing active ingredients, cost of fair wages and workers rights, marketing, liability, ect... you have a bit of wiggle room to still make a huge profit. 

I just looked up my wholesale cost of 50mg doxy from west-ward pharmaceuticals. It would cost me $133 for 50 tabs(generic not vibramycin). GoodRX says it would cost me $118 at CVS and $168 at walmart and $245 at costco. So thats the pharmacy game. Discount some meds and jack up prices on the others. Canada does that on a national level to control drug costs. Im just the guy that tells you what you got and what to take for specific reasons, not where to get it or what its going to cost. 

Most physicians I know have no issues prescribing precautionary antibiotics for travelers. In Mexico and Central America, you tell your symptoms to the pharmacist and he diagnoses and sells you the medication. You see a physician either because your condition is severe enough that you decide you need something more than a spot decision or you desire restricted medications.Luckily you rarely would take a long course of doxy. 2 for lyme,3 for cholera, 14 for clamydia (no longer recommended for the clap). Just don't get into anthrax - a 60 day course is gonna cost you. And periodontal disease! try up to a 9 month course!


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Makes you wonder. I think the generic 100mg doxycyclene cost about $10/100 tabs. The non-generic amoxicillin/cluv about $10/10 tabs. My confidence level for the non-generic stuff is pretty high, for the generic . . . It would be interesting if someone with some expertise did a survey. I'll send you some of the doxycyclene if you are curious enough about its quality to test.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

I checked my prices for some of the other abx: 
All prices are per 100 tabs
Parenthesis for the prices of fishpenforte prices and the amount
Pen VK 500mg $16 ($38 for 60)
Flagyl 250mg $2.00 ($57 for 60)
Ampicillin 500mg $20 ($38 for 100)
Augmentin 875mg $20 (NA)
Keflex 500mg $9 ($44 for 100)
Clindamycin 150mg $7 ($35 for 60)
Rocephin 1g IM(per vial) $1.95 (NA)

I was actually surprised to see the markup. Then I looked in some fish forums. I never once saw threads about using most of these. Most used were erythromycin for cyanobacteria, tetrasafe, Maracyn-oxy, metromed and sulfa. Actually fish people were mocking these fish meds because they most of these human antibiotics are too selective and diagnosing ornamental fish diseases are a chore. (and bacterial infections are usually secondary)
The laws on these are a niche loophole, but my guess it that the market really only can support a few companies since the demand is less ornamental fish fans and more "other uses".

SW Im not in a position to test the meds at this time as I'm not currently in any active research projects. There are private labs that can run it, but the cheapest I've ever seen to run a sample is $185 if you give the exact protocol to run. The cheapest way to run a dirty comparison would be to do a TLC of the mexican brand vs a US grade pharmacy version. If both are 100mg doxy then they should have equivalent banding at the same range up the silica. If I were going to throw a few dollars on abx, i might not worry about it. But, If I were thinking about spending hundreds on various products, I might look into some simple chemistry setup to be able to test the products.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. 

From the pricing it appears that the Mexican stuff, even the generic could be legit. Many of the brand name pharmacuticals are actually made in Mexico. I usually buy the name brand stuff like Lomotil and Syntroid that are blister packed.

What got me to thinking is . . . 

Back in the day we trained with a variety of folks. Some of my favorite were the Brits. They treated their special ops folks like they had a brain. They were issued stuff like morphine. There supplemental first aid kit was a favorite:

Here is a list of the stuff it contained:

Codeine Phospate (30 mg) 12
Cyclizine (50 mg) 8 
Lomotil 20
Pentazocine (50 mg) 8
Prguanil 14
Sodium chloride and dex 8
Tetracycline 16
Chlorine tabs 24
Sunscreen and insect cream 
Bag, 1 pt
Housewife and splinter forceps

It comes in a 2 x 2 x 1 plastic case that is waterproof with a wrap of duck tape around it. Mine are getting very old some of the tablets are turning to powder. I wanted to update it with modern equivalents. I was particularly looking for something to replace the tetracycline as an all round antibiotic.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Most American GIs are given a variety of meds without issue. 18 deltas carry a full range to provide general anesthesia in the field and are trained well to use it. It's just not issued anymore outside of deployments. Most of it would end up on eBay or "lost" . It's more of a fiscal responsibility on the governments part.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

No they ain't. You ain't ever likely to see an 18D medic. LRRP/LRS teams were given fluids (ringers, etc) and training to administer them but little else.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

For any mere mortals expired Tetracycline is seriously dangerous, I wouldn't mess with it. Most drugs just loose potency but that one becomes toxic. 
swjohnsey however is a licensed "adventurer" and will probably try it for the thrill. 
Tetracycline (and other "cyclines") is certainly not outdated, it is very effective for a range of problems, there is no true "all round antibiotic"


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## farmers (Jul 28, 2012)

Please don't get medications from Mexico. I know someone that got there meds. from there. They caused her death. When tested they where filled with illegal drugs and blood thinners. So be very careful.


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