# Home Heating Choices



## KensWife

So, last night made me think.

It was very cold outside.

Our propane service said they would be coming to fill our tanks this week - and it looks like they did NOT because we ran out of propane on the coldest night of the winter.

We are in North Carolina - so it does not normally get this cold, but I am guessing it was around 11 degrees. 

I pulled out two space heaters, that I thought would do the trick - until THE POWER WENT OUT.

We were stuck using the fireplace, which everyone knows is not energy efficient. Most of the heat went up the chimney... it did help a little... but not much.

I was told, that our chimney pipe cannot handle a wood burning stove... when it was put in, it was hooked up to propane... I had it switched over so we could burn wood.

I am tired of dealing with the propane company. What are your experiences with home heating, and what do you suggest?


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## Roi du Rodentia

Maybe now you can appreciate why it seems so many babies are born in September and there abouts? Eleven degrees? GREAT cuddling weather!
Night time, no LPG and no power? Basically, you're rapidly running out of options, I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but there it is. Esssentially, you have two realistic choices, wood or coal although the Irish and Scots seem to have done middling well with peat? Of course, even the most fervent Celt has converted over to gas of some kind now. Of course, I will not mention the fuel of choice for the Plains Indians since I suspect bison are fairly rare in North Carolina? Certainly not in the millions casually dropping little nuggets of fuel where ever they roam. 
Of course, whatever back-up system(s) you adopt will depend on your local resources and capitol but after spending sixteen years in Northern WI heating cabins and a drafty old farm house with nothing but wood, I can assure you that the old adage about wood warming you twice is indeed accurate and if done correctly, can actually warm many more times than only twice! And as a slightly flippant aside here, when the Mister swings an ax all day long, there is the lusty dusty lumberjack mentality that often comes out which seems to me at least to be preferable to the filthy coal miner personality. 
Wait a minute! North Carolina? Maybe you can get access to bales of unsaleable cured and dried tobacco as a fuel? Enough sillinesscity from me.
Basically, I see only coal or wood to be your logical choices with my personal preference being wood, but I'm stuck in a rut here. There are tons of options for indoor stoves and exterior heating plants if you use hot water to heat your home but certainly, only an inside wood or coal burner will work in a grid down situation unless you have a perfect set up and some clever engineering. Good luck!


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## UncleJoe

I agree with Rio. We also heat strictly with wood. I removed our oil furnace, put a wood furnace in its place and used the existing block & liner chimney. If you're really serious about a fool proof back up, you could put in a stainless steel chimney although they can get rather $ salty $. Good luck.

PS It was -5 here last night and we were quite comfy. Wood is a great way to go.


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## endurance

My primary is natural gas hot water heat (boiler). I currently have three back ups. First is my kerosun, for which I have 30 gallons of kerosene stored, about enough for 6-14 days, depending on outside temperatures and how much of the house I want to heat. Second is a propane heater with battery operated fan. I have two 20# propane bottles and plan on picking up another one or two one of these days. With two bottles, I'm set for 10-14 days with bedroom, bathroom and kitchen heat. My current fallback, because I haven't had the time to wire it in properly, is running my boiler off of my inverter and 12v deep cycle battery and single 45w panel. No, it wouldn't be enough panel to last long, but I could also charge the battery with my car or the generator I'm storing for a friend currently.


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## KensWife

I would like to check to see how expensive replacing our existing chimney would cost... I am sure it would be a pretty penny.  However, it could be worth it if we do not have to pay for propane anymore.... we have quite a bit of wood, we even use it in our fireplace - however - like I said before, half of the heat goes right up the chimney.


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## Tex

Mrs. Ken,

Once your chimney situation is rectified, a wood burning stove insert for your fireplace would do wonders. My wife's aunt uses one and a few sticks of wood would heat most of the house for several hours. 

My in-laws' wood burning stove has made us open windows in 30 degree weather because of excess heat. It's not an insert, but a small free standing stove. It also doubles as a place to heat coffee or hot chocolate. Some times they put a pot of water on it to act as a humidifier.


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## Merlin

*my 22 1/2 cents*



KensWife said:


> I would like to check to see how expensive replacing our existing chimney would cost... I am sure it would be a pretty penny.  However, it could be worth it if we do not have to pay for propane anymore.... we have quite a bit of wood, we even use it in our fireplace - however - like I said before, half of the heat goes right up the chimney.


Hi check out A kerosene heater 1 will heat 500 square feet easy at 10 outside to 65 inside in a board and batten building with very little insulation This is the cheapest quick fix look them up on the web start them outside and shut them down outside that is when they smoke nearly burn clean not like grand Pas type use them in woods.. next if you have access to denatured alcohol you can use a alcohol heater and stove with or without blowers use the one on the sailboat all the time Boats used to come with them only next if you have a place for another chimney for a wood stove that wood be cheaper than stainless sleeve in you chimney fireplace I would prefer the sleeve and add a steel insert with a heat-a-la-tor with a blower attachment that is 12 volt dc / 110volt ac it will work without the blower and depending on the insert you can get them with a small stove top kinda like a odd shaped 2 burner ah last but not least solar heater make one could be a low cost one like the one I made for a line shack in the forest it is 2 ft x 6 ft glass top and when the sun is out even when nobody is there it puts out heat I used a non low e dual pane window and at 30 outside hopefully warmer inside it will put out 100-190 degree heat with a 2inch x 14 inlet and outlet a small 5 watt fan helps the output but you lose temp rise but hey its cheap heat and the bears have never tore it up yet


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## Merlin

*my 22 1/2 cents*

hit send twice


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## northernontario

Don't forget that with a lot of these options, you need to be careful of CO (carbon monoxide) buildup. Portable propane and kerosene heaters burn the air in the room and release CO into the same space. In a short period of time, the CO% is higher than the air. We used to heat the garage in the winter with a portable propane heater, and then a portable kerosene heater. Yes, it would warm things up on a chilly day when you needed to work on a car, but you also had to be aware of how long it had been running. Laying on the floor (CO is heavier than air), you could start to feel yourself getting light-headed or even feel a headache after the heater had been on too long. 

If you find your wood stove is drawing out a lot of the heat in the room and actually making other rooms colder, you need to:
-provide a fresh air inlet into the wood stove. If you don't, the burning wood draws air in from other sources, like a drafty window on the other end of the house. Burn cold air, not the warm air thats already in the house.
-seal up windows to prevent drafts. 
-close off rooms that don't need to be heated.
-find a way to circulate the air around (not easy when the power is out). No point overheating one room if the others are cold.

It doesn't help when the power is out and you have no backup power... but you can always consider a heat pump, or a geothermal heating setup. No more reliance on heating oil, propane, natural gas. But, when the power goes out, you won't have any heat.

It may cost some money, but look at retrofitting the wood stove with a newer stove/fireplace. Find someone who really knows what they're doing. Talk with them about a cold-air intake for the fireplace/stove. 

My father used to run a combo wood furnace/oil furnace. If it got REALLY cold out, or if the wood fire went out during the night (or if you were gone for a weekend), the oil would kick in and keep heating the house. It was all ducted into the forced-air ventilation system in the house. He eventually converted to a heat-pump setup when he wanted A/C and got tired of chopping wood. (Too busy taking care of three kids after his wife... my mother... passed away)

He still has a wood fireplace in the living room... which he finally lit for the first time in 10+ years during the christmas holidays when the power was out for almost 3 days.

I know one of the criteria for when my wife and I buy our first home, is that it has a wood stove capable of heating the house. (or we install one)


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## KensWife

Does anyone have any information about the wood burning units that go outside your home and the heat blows into your home through ducts? A few years ago I remember seeing advertisements for them - but do not know what they are called?


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## UncleJoe

It's just called an outdoor furnace. Some burn wood, some coal, and some both. You still have the problem of the circulatory pump if the power is down, and that furnace can run anywhere between $2,000 and $10,000. You can probably have a new chimney put up and buy a decent wood stove for 2k or less. Then you won't have to worry about electric. Our furnace is in the basement and when the grid goes down here, leaving us without a blower, we crack open a window in each of the upstairs rooms and convection takes over. That's the one thing we are completely self sufficient in. We will never freeze as long as I can cut wood.


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## KensWife

I have a guy that will be coming over to look at our chimney this week... I think that's our best bet.


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## pubwvj

I like wood. It doesn't explode. I don't have to buy it from foreign sources, or anyone for that matter. I can sustainably produce all I want from my own land using minimal labor. Wood stoves are a simple system and easy to build and maintain.

I couple my like of wood with a high thermal mass house made of stone and concrete. I prefer not living inside a tinder box.  Same whether burning wood or not.

Cheers

-Walter
Sugar Mountain Farm
in the mountains of Vermont
Sugar Mountain Farm
Holly's Pencil Portraits
NoNAIS.org


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## Jason

I have an outdoor wood furnace. I absolutely love the thing. This will be the 3d full winter (but the 4th season) of our using it exclusively to heat our old drafty brick farmhouse. It has some issues like the power going out thing, true, but it's safe, keeps the wood debris out of the house, and we use NO petroleum to heat. 

It uses ALOT of wood and makes ALOT of smoke. Mine is a Hardy, but there are many brands. There are forums like this one dedicated to outdoor wood furnaces. You can use them with forced air or hot water heat. 

As a final note, with the furnace in the yard and all electric apliances, we have NO carbon monoxide emitters in our house. None.


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## Tex

Google "Rocket Mass Stove". They are supposed to be 90% efficient. If you need to, you can build the hole for feeding wood outside your home to keep all of the smoke outside. Some of the examples look kind of strange, but when done tastefully, they look pretty cool. There's a book out by Ianto Evans that I wouldn't mind picking up as a reference. I'm sure there are others.

Rocket Stoves Rock! » Bioregional Congress


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## WEFW

UncleJoe said:


> You can probably have a new chimney put up and buy a decent wood stove for 2k or less.


Not if you want anything resembling quality. It cost me over $5k last year to put in a new Harmon woodstove & insulated SS chimney. Still worth every dime. Wood's easy to come by here in the north country, and the stove heats the house so much better than the creaky old furnace.


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## youpock

*pellets?*

anyone burn processed condensed wood pellets? I don't have much experience with it in more extreme weather situations, it only gets in the 20-30's F here in winter time but growing up it was all my father ever used to keep the entire house warm. About one bag a day keep the house around 75 f and half a bag keeps the house in the 60's; you can get fifty bags for about $250. The only pricey part is the initial stove but i know they show up on craigslist here in the bay area for cheap, I got one recently for a friend for free and needed only to buy a $50 part to fix it.

The pellets also store nicely and only need a dry place but they come in sealed plastic bags that are actually reasonably thick plastic that can be used for other things pretty easily


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## szabotage

maybe a lil off topic but, I've always been a firm believer in wood stoves, my grandmother had one of the most efficient stoves I've ever experienced until the insurance adjuster visited her home recently, turns out her insurance company threatened to drop her unless she changed her stove. the adjuster just so happened to have the number of a company that can help her out with a more 'efficient and safer' model. 3500 bucks later she now has a piece of crap thin gauge steel/glass stove that puts out only a fraction of her all old 'iron pig'. this doesn't sound safer either, tempered glass on not.

do I smell scam here?


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## youpock

szabotage said:


> maybe a lil off topic but, I've always been a firm believer in wood stoves, my grandmother had one of the most efficient stoves I've ever experienced until the insurance adjuster visited her home recently, turns out her insurance company threatened to drop her unless she changed her stove. the adjuster just so happened to have the number of a company that can help her out with a more 'efficient and safer' model. 3500 bucks later she now has a piece of crap thin gauge steel/glass stove that puts out only a fraction of her all old 'iron pig'. this doesn't sound safer either, tempered glass on not.
> 
> do I smell scam here?


sounds like time to switch insurances.. lol


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## UncleJoe

WEFW said:


> Not if you want anything resembling quality. It cost me over $5k last year to put in a new Harmon woodstove & insulated SS chimney. Still worth every dime. Wood's easy to come by here in the north country, and the stove heats the house so much better than the creaky old furnace.


I missed this post the first time around.
Our chimney which is 28' tall, made of 16" square block with an 8" liner was $1200. The Johnson Furnace (not stove) was $500 used. New ones are around $1500.


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## NaeKid

szabotage said:


> maybe a lil off topic but, I've always been a firm believer in wood stoves, my grandmother had one of the most efficient stoves I've ever experienced until the insurance adjuster visited her home recently, turns out her insurance company threatened to drop her unless she changed her stove. the adjuster just so happened to have the number of a company that can help her out with a more 'efficient and safer' model. 3500 bucks later she now has a piece of crap thin gauge steel/glass stove that puts out only a fraction of her all old 'iron pig'. this doesn't sound safer either, tempered glass on not.
> 
> do I smell scam here?


I am smelling a scam here too ... time to contact a lawyer!


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## almac

ever thought of solar radiant floor heating?
basically, its piping or hoses that coil through your flooring. 
the pipes connect to a solar collector on your roof. a 12 volt pump slowly circulates antifreeze/water through the system giving you heat.

i am currently in the planning stage for building. this method seems most attractive to me. then have a wood stove for backup.


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## NaeKid

almac said:


> ever thought of solar radiant floor heating?
> basically, its piping or hoses that coil through your flooring.
> the pipes connect to a solar collector on your roof. a 12 volt pump slowly circulates antifreeze/water through the system giving you heat.
> 
> i am currently in the planning stage for building. this method seems most attractive to me. then have a wood stove for backup.


You probably could pipe some of the water through a double-wall of the wood-stove to boost your warming capability where the inner-wall is nearest the fire and the outter-wall would have pipe just close enough to collect the warmth without getting so hot that the floor would end up way too hot to walk on.


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## allen_idaho

Most importantly would be the insulation in your home. I redid my floors last summer with some new thicker insulation and now my bedroom stays comfortably warm without any heat on while it is around 40 degrees outside.


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## Ytailhtr

MIght I suggest radiant floor heating, with water pipes in the floor, and the water heated by and electric heater, which is running off of a wind turbine.

See link below for the wind turbine/water heater info:

Wind turbines sustainable 403 energy wind mills wind mill power lakota wind power airx generation Wind turbines wind mills wind power wind power generation

Submersible 12 volt water heater cattle water horse heater dog low voltage heater stock tank heater cattle 12 volt water heater Hot Water 48 volt Heating Elements

Just another idea to keep in mind


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## keepitlow

KensWife said:


> So, last night made me think.
> 
> It was very cold outside.
> 
> Our propane service said they would be coming to fill our tanks this week - and it looks like they did NOT because we ran out of propane on the coldest night of the winter.
> 
> We are in North Carolina - so it does not normally get this cold, but I am guessing it was around 11 degrees.
> 
> I pulled out two space heaters, that I thought would do the trick - until THE POWER WENT OUT.
> 
> We were stuck using the fireplace, which everyone knows is not energy efficient. Most of the heat went up the chimney... it did help a little... but not much.
> 
> I was told, that our chimney pipe cannot handle a wood burning stove... when it was put in, it was hooked up to propane... I had it switched over so we could burn wood.
> 
> I am tired of dealing with the propane company. What are your experiences with home heating, and what do you suggest?


Here are some of our back up heating options for NG, electric and propane.

We have 3 - vent free Glo-Warm Blue Flame Heaters back up NG heaters.

GloWarm blueflame heaters are vent free heaters

Made 2 manifolds with ball valves that can be added to my forced air gas supply and to the gas line of the water tank. These heaters require no electric. I used some these heaters last fall when a bird got into my forced air furnace and destroyed the turbo fan. Heater man could not get here for 3 days so they took the chill off the 30 degree weather.

Also have 3 - Mr. Heater Portable Buddy space heaters â€" Model# MH9B that run on propane.

They run for days on a 20 pound cylinder.

If I had to do it over I would buy 3 catalytic propane heaters.

Olympian Wave 8 Catalytic Safety Heater - $299.99

Much more expensive than blue flame or infrared propane heaters. But, they just sip the propane for much longer burn times. The issue with catalytic is they are delicate and you must cover the catalytic pad or it gets ruined easily if contaminated.

And have 4 Milk House electric heaters

Amazon.com: Aloha 1,500-Watt Fan-Forced Milkhouse Heater: Kitchen & Dining

Just wished I had some wood fired back up heat. Never gave wood heat a though until 2007 when I first learned about Peak Oil...then it was too late. Can't afford to move now, so making due with what I got.

The houses nowadays are not set up for peak fossil fuel issues and are pretty much run by NG in my local. Our houses designs could not be worse for trying to heat with wood.

As a last ditch effort, erect a small tent inside with weights instead of stakes to hold the ends down. Or buy a self erecting pop up tent. 2 or 3 of you get in the tent can keep you from freezing.

Get some cold weather down sleeping bags. And be prepared with the proper mountaineering gear to keep you warm...you wont freeze inside your house with this stuff!

OR Windblocker hat
Seirus Quick Draw hat / face
Down Vest
Down coat
Wicking long underwear
Sweats pants, crew top with hoodie over crew top.
Thermal ski pants
Wool socks
North Face Down Nuptse Bootie III
OR Alti mitts
Power stretch glove liners under the Alti mitts.


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## mosquitomountainman

We use wood heat. Allen-Idaho has a great point about insulation. In emergencies cut down to one room and heat it. Had this converstion with a friend this morning. In my childhood days at my grandparent's farm they heated the "main room" during the winter. Bedrooms were not heated but had piles of blankets available. It was the best sleep I ever got underneath the weight (and warmth) of five or six quilts breathing the cold air in the bedroom. Evenings were spent playing cards or games near the wood stove where the whole family was gathered. This was in Kansas and it does get cold in the winter there.


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## pdx210

wood insert fireplace rule... you can run it without power and all the energy to run it is local


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## survivalboy12895

I would go wood heat all the way.With maybe a few propane room heaters as backup.But before you switch to any new heating option,seal up your house.Weatherstrip,add insulation,thermal curtians for the windows,etc.With wood heat(assuming you have a place to cut your own),you are your fuel company.Plus,cutting wood is alot better exersize then writing checks out to the fuel companys,right??


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## faithmarie

We have a wood stove that extends into the room from the fire place in our basement and we had couches that pulled into beds. Many times in the early 80s we had to sleep down there.The electric would go out. And cooking on the top of the wood burning stove was great! 
We have a wood and coal burning furnace but never use it. We have a lot of coal stored too. It is hard to start it.


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## JeepHammer

We are earth sheltered, so the lowest it will get in the back rooms is about 55 degrees.
We insulated the walls between earth sheltered part of the home and the atmosphere exposed part of the home.

We have TWO propane tanks, when ONE gets empty, we call for more.
That way we ALWAYS have one tank in reserve.
We live quite a way off the beaten track, so it often takes a week for them to get here, and that is *IF* the minimum wage guy driving the truck and find the place!

If not, we wait another week to get on the schedule, and hope this driver can find his way around his hat without getting lost...

----------------------------------------

There are some pretty efficient RADIANT propane heaters out there, and one hooked up to a PORTABLE RESERVE TANK, like a grill or fork truck tank will heat up quite an area.

You WILL have to ventilate, and if you don't already have a carbon monoxide detector with battery back up, and you have propane heat, there is something wrong with you! 

I have a propane radiant that attaches right to the top of the tank and will heat any given room to a comfortable temp.
Great to have an extra tank and that heater in reserve!

Radiant heaters are MUCH LOWER EMISSIONS than something like an open flame grill, which WILL kill you in short order!

I sometimes use kerosene heaters in the shop.
Kerosene is MESSY to use, stinks, but gives pretty good heat.
MUST BE VENTILATED!
Kerosene makes a Lot of carbon monoxide, so ventilation and carbon monoxide detector is required.
I prefer propane, but Kerosene is my 'Back Up' and stores pretty well.

I know you can't do this as are retrofit, but radiant floor heat is a good thing.
Cost us about $350 for a wood/coal/corn fired boiler as a back up when we installed the radiant floor heat.
Takes about an hour to get the backup boiler fired up, making heat, and get the valves/pumps switched over (Solar/Batteries, we are never without electricity) for the boiler to start working if something happens with the propane/electric boiler...

Something to consider if you go 'Off Grid' or build from 'Scratch',
Nothing quite as flexible, or quite as comforting as radiant floor heat,
And it's SUPER efficient to boot!
---------------------------------------

To stop what happened to you from happening again,

INSULATE THE CRAP OUT OF THE OUTER WALLS AND THE CEILING/ROOF!
Keeping heat in, even foundation or basement heat will keep pipes from freezing, and keep more of your hard paid for heat generation from leaking out!
Remember, the heat as to go somewhere for cold to creep in!
So fill those cracks, and insulate!

Consider a 'Secondary' heat source,
Not to heat the home to a 'Comfortable' level, but make it 'Livable' with some blankets/sweaters.

Kerosene heaters are a pain, they stink, they are dangerous, but they WILL keep the pipes from freezing and your nose from forming 'Snotsicles' (snot Popsicle)!

Propane grill tanks and radiant heaters will do the same, but you don't get the same BTUs/Heating time from the storage space.
On the other hand, Propane is useful for a number of things, doesn't go bad in storage, and is SAFER to store than Kerosene.

I use it for the grill, for cutting gas in the shop, for 'Camp Lights' and 'Camp Heat', and I have a propane powered vehicle (also burns gasoline, dual fuel).


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## Derek

*Carbon-Neutral Alternative Fuel Of the Future!*

Lots of great ideas and comments, I find there are so many choices for different heating sources! I prefer the Carbon-Neutral Alternative Fuel Of the Future!!! WOOD! I like the idea behind wood burners for many reasons, Some of which are:
1 .Clean heating source
2. Gives me a reason to go outside 
3. Lets me play with an axe
4. I love fire!
5. Junk mail receptacle
6. Wood Ashes would be great for my Compost pile!
7. Cost

On Homesteadearth.com we have a table that shows annual cost, installation prices, efficiency and a few other things in a hand Cheat Chart!


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## zookeeper

The old wood burning cooktop stove is hard to beat. And you should maximize the whole system. Take a look at these options:
Durango Woodburning Stove with Blower - TR008
Get a stove that has a blower, and there are additions you can add, such as a stove pipe heater, which blows even more heat into the room. Then there are other additions that can be piped into the rooms, all off the one stove.


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## Lowincome

I hope some one can help me out. I live in a single wide with electric heat and no place to put a wood stove. Last year we lost power for 5 days. Any more info on back up heating?


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## jsriley5

an outside wood burner would be a soluition but would have to set up so the heat will still rise into the house without power to blow it. Or some kind of 12v backup that you can run off a vehicle or a small solar set up. I would be suprised if there isn't a exterior wood burner that is already set up to get heat in without electricity though. obviously it's gonna be alot less efficient without fan forced air to move that heat but it would get you through a short outtage without frozen water lines and frozen people. Kero sene or ventless propane is probably much more convienient though. I really like the buddy heaters and they have a good low oxygen cut off system and a very sensitive turn over shut off.


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## pandamonium

I like the idea of the outside wood furnace, yes they use a lot of wood and they smoke a lot, but, if you have forced hot air heat now, you run your hot water line to a heat exchanger that goes in your existing plenum, if you have radiators or radiant floor heating it goes to that supply line. You can even heat a hot water heater with it for domestic use. A small solar panel and one battery will run your pump and blower. No worries of running out of propane or oil or the electric going out. Just gotta cut wood. Oh they have a blower inside that fires up when more heat is called for in the home.
The cheapest brand new one I saw browsing online was around 5k.


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## pandamonium

Lowincome said:


> I hope some one can help me out. I live in a single wide with electric heat and no place to put a wood stove. Last year we lost power for 5 days. Any more info on back up heating?


You're screwed.

I would consider a backup generator that has enough uumph to run some lights and your electric heaters. Invest in a transfer switch and have an electrician wire it into your panel. Are you renting or is the unit yours?


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## Jimthewagontraveler

The wood stove I have has a 4"x6" door and sits in a 1960's
metal kitchen cabinet that is 24"x24"x36".
My chimney is 3" auto exhaust.
You would not believe the heat I get from this tiny thing.
The auto exhaust pipe can be shaped to go out a window 
or ceiling by any muffler shop.
My horse drawn home is only 6x16 but I have a curtain for
a door and cracks between the floorboards so dust and hay
sift out.
It is 28 outside and 67 inside.
Boats used to use tiny wood stoves.
And they still make beautiful little cast iron jobs at REAL $$$
My stove was made for a tent or ice fishing hut and cost
$200 new and worth every penny.
The pipe cost $40.
The roof cap was $7.00


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## lilmissy0740

Before I got my cookstove this year we had a wood burner for our home. Hubby built a building outside that looked like a fancy outhouse and we put the wood burner in there. We then got the insulated pipe and duct it ourselves into the house. Worked great, many evenings we had a window opened cause we was a bit to warm. Now we did have it duct into the furnace which we used the blower to circulate it. So no electric, we had to run a generator. 
I agree with everyone else. Wood heat is so comfy.
Can you get a free standing wood stove and duct it yourself out a wall and run a new insulated pipe instead of using the chimney you have? I guess you would have to compare prices, to fix or put up a new one.


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## DJgang

Lowincome said:


> I hope some one can help me out. I live in a single wide with electric heat and no place to put a wood stove. Last year we lost power for 5 days. Any more info on back up heating?


Kerosene. Now I'm talking short term ya know.... A cookie sheet on top makes a good griddle area to cook on. 

But surely you could sacrifice something for a wood stove? Even if I had to get rid of the kitchen table and eat on TV trays, I'd get some wood heat going especially if you have access to wood. :2thumb:


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## adcantor

I have had almost every form of heat in the house. We have settled on geothermal with a woodstove as an emergency backup. 

The geothermal costs us $235 a month versus the $600 we were paying for propane in winter. Our A/C is free and water is heated for free. Our house is a meat locker in the summer. Best thing is that once the geothermal is paid off, we heat/cool for free. 

Our auxiliary heat is electric, but We have been accepted for our government solar program which will pay us about $6K a year (according to GIS stats for our specific location). This income pays off the solar installation, our geo payment, plus our own electrical bills(auxiliary heat). 

I strongly recommend this entire system for heating and cooling a house.


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## MountainKing

I also live in NC - just west of Charlotte. Pretty mild winter so far. Our house is 100% electric. A couple of years ago we put a Lopi Freedom insert into our fireplace. Prior to that, burning wood didn't really do much. It provided some immediate warmth around the fireplace, but sucked cold air in from around the rest of the house. Net gain on the electric bill was zero or around about.

Then we put in the Lopi. I haven't turned on the electric heat pumps in the past few years ever. I have a blower on the wood stove (it also has a shelf that juts out about 8 inches that I could cook on if needed) and almost always just have to run the blower on low because it puts out so much heat. We have an open floorplan, two-story house of about 2000 square feet. The stove keeps the house 72-78 at all times. Upstairs stays exactly the same temp as downstairs since some of the warm air goes right up the stairwell.

At night I stack it full of wood (we live on a few acres and have our own wood supply for now anyway - all nice oak). It will take up to 22" logs and I usually put about 5 or so in there. I pull the dampers shut and it slow smolders all night. When I come down in the morning there are still a bed of embers and the temp in the house might drop to about 65 on the coldest nights. Stoke it up, throw some wood on it, let it heat up a bit then the blower comes on automatically and about an hour later the house is up to 75 and I have to cut the blower off again.

There is a certain quality of the radiant heat a big, cast iron insert or stove gives off. Everyone comments on how nice it is. And I do love the smell of it. We chose the Lopi Freedom (a bit pricy after installation) because we wanted something functional but also attractive to look at. The glass soots up occasionally, but if you just stoke up a good fire the fire wash effect inside the box cleans the glass off.

This is the one we got except we got a brushed nickel frame on it. It is gorgeous: Web Pic

In summary - I love my wood insert and think it was the best money I've spent.

Good luck.

MK


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## JayJay

Lowincome said:


> I hope some one can help me out. I live in a single wide with electric heat and no place to put a wood stove. Last year we lost power for 5 days. Any more info on back up heating?


If you are needing a backup for an outage---portable propane --we used one for a few days in Ky with power outage.
It was great and we lived in two or three rooms. Had an extra tank for about $16 and it lasted for about 24 hours, give or take, and it worked out fine.
Now, propane with vent free logs is hooked up as it wasn't then.


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## Lowincome

Thanks my biggest proplem my wife is disabled so her med equ take up a lot for room.


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## BillS

Lowincome said:


> I hope some one can help me out. I live in a single wide with electric heat and no place to put a wood stove. Last year we lost power for 5 days. Any more info on back up heating?


I'd get a couple of kerosene heaters. Depending on where you live you might only need a gallon of kerosene per day. Kerosene is about $8 a gallon if you buy it in 5 gallon cans or about $4.50 if you buy it from the pump at farm supply stores.


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## mtexplorer

Have the exterior part of the chimney demoed, save what bricks you can. Leave the hearth and mantle interior. Pour a concrete pad and build 48"w x 24" wood framed column exterior of the house (if space is available) to the height requirement of 24" higher than 10' level if you have a pitched roof. Side the exterior of this wood framed box with any siding of your choice to match your existing home. Buy the 8" ID triple wall wood stove pipe with the support accessory (these come with a clean out box at the base, remember to make a hatch in the new wood framed column for access), wall thimble and elbow so the flue will enter the inside of the house above the existing mantle. Set your new wood stove on the hearth (extend the hearth if necessary to accommodate the depth of the new wood stove) and pipe it up and right angle into the new flue system. This option will provide you with a chimney that will last at least 15 years if maintenanced properly, i.e., annual cleaning and not over firing the wood stove. This is cheaper than having the brick chimney rebuilt and will provide you with a flue vent that can be control via the damper in the stove pipe above the wood stove. Some simple carpentry can help you achieve this option. Remember to make the interior of the framed column with proper clearances enough to meet the 2" to combustible material code. Because the column is exterior of the house it only needs to be 2 x4 construction and insulated with the appropriate R-factor insulation. If you buy a wood stove go the extra bucks for one with a fan. It will be useful as long as there's electricity. If your mechanically inclined, swap the fan motor out ( from Grainger or Johnstone Supply) with a 12v motor with a transformer. If the grid goes down it can be run with a solar system if you really need it. There are wood stoves that can be bought that have hot water tanks, flue ovens and other accessories for an additional cost. With this set up you can burn wood or coal, the two most likely sources for heating if SHTF. 

Just throwing out options

M


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## LincTex

JayJay said:


> Portable propane --we used one for a few days in Ky with power outage. Had an extra tank for about $16 and it lasted for about 24 hours, give or take, and it worked out fine.


Are you talking like the "sunflower" radiant heads that mounts directly on a 20 lb tank?


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## PreparedRifleman73

KensWife said:


> So, last night made me think.
> 
> It was very cold outside....but I am guessing it was around 11 degrees.


That's a heck of a nice day up here in Minnesota! Uffda. It was colder than that today and I worked outside cuz it was so nice.

But seriously, I feel your pain. I live in town, so Natural Gas is probably much more reliable than LPG; especially because it isn't petroleum based. But, I too would like to get a good wood burner. The kind that burns outside and boils water, which runs through your conventional furnace.


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## LincTex

mtexplorer said:


> Have the exterior part of the chimney demoed, save what bricks you can. This is cheaper than having the brick chimney rebuilt and will provide you with a flue vent that can be control via the damper in the stove pipe above the wood stove.


I wouldn't go through all this trouble!!!! That is a LOT of extra time and money $$$$

I just put a liner down inside my existing brick chimney. (google: "install chimney liner" )

I had to build an adapter at the bottom because the original fireplace had a rectangular flue damper. The top of the liner ends with a normal chimney cap. This option was relatively cheap and I easily did it in one day.


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## mtexplorer

The stove you're looking for is called an "add on". I just looked at one at Home Depot. They are very large in depth. They will work but you have to have some kind of barometric damper which activates by the pressure from your add on, other wise the warm air from the add on will feed back into the return ducts of your system and will not work efficiently. This damper can be purchased on line or through a local HVAC contractor

It's a good alternative, but remember that is there is now power then the unit will only be functional as a free standing wood stove, the fan won't work, unless you go the next step and swap out the fan motor with a 12vdc motor which can be bought through either Johnstone or Grainger, you will just have to get a transformer with the 12vdc motor to operate it with household current. If the power is out you simply wire the motor to your 12vdc solar or wind energy system supply. Most of these factory installed fan units come with a switch for either a manual or automatic operation that uses a thermal switch to turn the fan on when it reaches x temperature and shut if off when the temp drops in the wood stove to save energy and not be blowing cold air into your heating system. Either way the wood stove in itself is always a good investment for backup


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## mtexplorer

LincTex is right about the cost of the demo option. The liner would be more cost effective. If it was me I would not use the insert. I feel the free standing stove provides more heat to exposed area of the stove, and I like to be able to use my wood stove as a cooktop in the event of an emergency. That's a choice for each individual. 

The chimney liners I saw are sometimes flexible, meaning they aren't smooth inside, I'm not sure if this would make them difficult to clean and maintain. The ideal liner would be smooth which might mean having to use jointed sections. There might be issues with building too hot a fire that might damage the liner. I have triple wall but then I'm not using an existing chimney so you will have to use what you can.


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## LincTex

mtexplorer said:


> the fan won't work, unless you go the next step and swap out the fan motor with a 12vdc motor ... If the power is out you simply wire the motor to your 12vdc solar or wind energy system supply.


You had better have a monster size solar system with a *LOT* of battery capacity.


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## LincTex

mtexplorer said:


> The chimney liners I saw are sometimes flexible, meaning they aren't smooth inside, I'm not sure if this would make them difficult to clean and maintain.


I am actually using sections... It's kind of a hair raising process, because my chimney is pretty high and I had to join sections as I was lowering it down, LOL! I have never tried the flexible stainless steel kind.


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