# Saturated fat is not the major issue



## Cotton

An interesting article published in the British Medical Journal.

I especially like the part at the end - "Adopting a Mediterranean diet after a heart attack is almost three times as powerful in reducing mortality as taking a statin."

Article

"Saturated fat is not the major issue"

"Let's bust the myth of its role in heart disease"

http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340


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## JustCliff

I do agree with some parts of this study. I will have to read it again when I have not taken a pain pill. LOL


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## drfacefixer

Cotton said:


> An interesting article published in the British Medical Journal. I especially like the part at the end - "Adopting a Mediterranean diet after a heart attack is almost three times as powerful in reducing mortality as taking a statin." Article "Saturated fat is not the major issue" "Lets bust the myth of its role in heart disease" http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f6340


Not too much of a shocker. The hard part is getting people to drop their fried food for the Mediterranean diet and exercise.


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## Cotton

Many years ago years ago I worked for a company that built R&D catscans designed to scan the heart non-invasively. The Mayo at Rochester was one of my beta test sites. I installed their 3rd scanner. With it they could quantify soft plaque in the coronary arteries, research at its best!

This articles information was “known” then (I use the term loosely). The biggest enemies to this kind of hard data was the AMA, A. Heart Assoc., and the American College of Cardiologist. Cash is King and of course big pharma was paying the bills!!! He who has the gold makes the rules! Statins are still being dispensed by the wheel barrow and .gov still backs transfats.


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## Tirediron

drfacefixer said:


> Not too much of a shocker. The hard part is getting people to drop their fried food for the Mediterranean diet and exercise.


If I was Mediterranean I might eat like one otherwise I will eat as I want and not listen to the idiots that brought us transfat laden margarine as the ideal food only to later recant their statement. vract: Dieticians should mind their own:brickwall:


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## Wellrounded

I've never paid much mind to all the rubbish about diet. I keep mine as natural as possible and eat what I've put hard work into growing, I figure if I'm working hard to make butter and cheese by hand I'll damn well eat however much I like. 
I eat up to two pounds of animal fat a week, sometimes less sometimes more. I'm NOT overweight, chubby yes, but I don't get thin just build muscle under the chub . The lightest I've ever been is still 10 pounds over the docs idea of ideal. That was when I was carefully watching what I ate and doing a triathlon 6 days a week. 
Last time I went to see the doc he was really concerned about the 20 pounds I've put on over the last 5 years said I must be in pretty bad shape. What he found out was that I'm generally in great shape, my cholesterol is a bit low, my overall fitness is excellent and I don't like having all those useless tests.
The thing is everyone is different. Diet is not a one size fits all.


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## Cotton

_If I was Mediterranean I might eat like one otherwise I will eat as I want and not listen to the idiots_

Not sure how to take your post since I'm new here. A mediterranean diet is using natural fats just as native americans did, very little heart disease. Obesity and diabetes were almost none existent. It's not a "diet" prescribed, it's eating naturally!! Consuming natural fats as our ancestors would have done.

The point of the article and thread is how once again&#8230; governments and Big Cash are killing us. I think you and I are in agreement? I didn't mean to offend anyone. Didn't expect to get a hostile response for stating what they are doing to us!


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## cowboyhermit

Cotton said:


> _If I was Mediterranean I might eat like one otherwise I will eat as I want and not listen to the idiots_
> 
> Not sure how to take your post since I'm new here. A mediterranean diet is using natural fats just as native americans did, very little heart disease. Obesity and diabetes were almost none existent. It's not a "diet" prescribed, it's eating naturally!!
> 
> The point of the article and thread is how once again&#8230; governments and Big Cash are killing us. I think you and I are in agreement? I didn't mean to offend anyone. Didn't expect to get a hostile response for stating what they are doing to us!


I doubt any hostility was directed at you
You seem to have a different idea of what the Mediterranean diet is than is the common definition. It is not just eating naturally it is focused on certain types of food.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediteranean_diet


> The principal aspects of this diet include proportionally high consumption of olive oil, legumes, unrefined cereals, fruits, and vegetables, moderate to high consumption of fish, moderate consumption of dairy products (mostly as cheese and yogurt), moderate wine consumption, and low consumption of meat and meat products.


I am sure that it is in fact a healthy diet, as most historically adapted diets were before the advent of the modern western one.
There are plenty of other examples that might be a better fit for different people/places.http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional-diets


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## Cotton

cowboyhermit said:


> You seem to have a different idea of what the Mediterranean diet is than is the common definition.
> I am sure that it is in fact a healthy diet, as most historically adapted diets were before the advent of the modern western one.


My mistake, thanks for the clarification.

A side project of mine these past few years is studying the diets of ancient peoples. I started with native Americans and most recently included peoples around the mediterranean.

I didn't know there was "modern" mediterranean diet. After reading about it last night and this morning I would endorse it. It is geared towards natural saturated fats, the way ancient peoples ate here and around the mediterranean. Which is in essence is backed by the studies in the article in the British Medical Journal.

However, the purpose of my post wasn't to debate a "diet". It was simply to remind or make aware the mistakes of modern medical doctrine and the supporting role our governments have played for many decades.

I will add this about diets. Ancient man lived by volcanoes for a reason. It was for the health and longevity of his family, livestock and crops. It's the richest soils in the world full of minerals and trace elements.

The current state of the soil our foods come from is shocking. "The 1992 Earth Summit soil mineral depletion report showed soil depletion in North America to be at 85 percent, the highest in the world." No wonder disease is rampant today.

A couple of links with reference data.

http://www.purenewyou.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=161

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14653505

"A study on the mineral depletion of the foods available to us as a nation over the period 1940 to 1991." (This study used to be available on the net but I was unable to find a link this morning.)

8 years ago I started using crushed volcanic rock for livestock on crops and produce I sell at the farmers market. I've seen a dramatic improvement in the health of all. Produce and livestock are far more resistant to insects, disease and drought. Healthy in way I've not seen in my life time. This also applies to my family's health. 8 years ago we battled all the common maladies, obesity, blood pressure etc etc. 3 years ago my family doctor pulled me aside and specifically asked me what we were doing. For example we haven't had a cold or the flu in 5 years and adults lost on average 35lbs.

There are many trace mineral products available. I don't promote one over another. I simply say if you want to improve you health improve the soil your food comes from. Then eat like our ancestors did, not as modern society tells us. IMHO


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## Tirediron

Cotton no hostility was intended for you sorry if you are offended:sorry3:

:ranton: I have a bit of pent up anger towards Eating experts as well as those who decide how much one should weigh according to their height, it has taken me my whole adult life to finally have enough energy on a regular basis to feel like working most of the time, having a lack of a couple of enzymes and minerals, that should have been easy to find if the idiots Yes publicly funded ego manic "Doctors" would just let the lab techs do their job. So when someone with the swearword in their name gives advice it raises my ire, 
Someday people will realize that whole natural food is what we and animals are designed to eat, cows need to eat what parts of the plant they want and then their meat is good for us , not when they are fed just grain or corn and their rumen doesn't work :rantoff:


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## drfacefixer

Cotton said:


> Many years ago years ago I worked for a company that built R&D catscans designed to scan the heart non-invasively. The Mayo at Rochester was one of my beta test sites. I installed their 3rd scanner. With it they could quantify soft plaque in the coronary arteries, research at its best!
> 
> This articles information was "known" then (I use the term loosely). The biggest enemies to this kind of hard data was the AMA, A. Heart Assoc., and the American College of Cardiologist. Cash is King and of course big pharma was paying the bills!!! He who has the gold makes the rules! Statins are still being dispensed by the wheel barrow and .gov still backs transfats.


I sat in a conference where a team of cardiologists went at it over coronary calcium scans. The one that used it most on his patients eventually had his privileges limited. The problem isn't the hard data it provides, its that these scans give 100-150 X the amount of radiation as a chest film. While the correlation with cardiac risk is now getting there (years ago it wasn't). A lot of times these patients have so many risk indicators for heart disease, they don't need a confirmatory test that puts them at risk for cancer. There is a place for it, but it's been overused. It doesn't give you a better way to treat the patient. Its like using a GUI over Dos. It makes it easier for the average person to visualize the issue rather than looking at a collection of labs, but doesn't really direct treatment.


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## drfacefixer

Wow. If my user name set you off, then sorry about that. I figure I have years of surgical experience to offer, just as I've learned a ton from comments involving you and many others in areas I know little about. I've usually thought your input has always been among the most level headed and trustworthy. 

I was mainly pointing to the fact that the article condemns medications and glorifies diet change. As both you and Cotton pointed out, a more natural diet over processed food is healthier. Almost all treatment for disease starts of with lifestyle modifications - probably the part that gives the best bang for the buck but the hardest to implement. I won't pretend to be all knowing in the area of diet. Seems like most of the time, one chemical just gets substituted for another one. I turned to this forum and a few others mainly for help growing my own food in a renewable and pesticide free way. With that comes canning, dehydrating, food storage and viola... I'm half way to preppersville.


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## Woody

I find it hard to believe any of the ‘experts’ especially if they work for our government. Granted that knowledge of things changes over the years. As they find or develop better testing methods or better telescopes/microscopes they find things they did not take into account earlier.

I always refer back to the butter and eggs are bad for you issue. Years ago the ‘experts’ said they were really bad, no eat butter or eggs!!! Then, the margarine crap they were pushing as being good was not so good as they thought. I also tend to REALLY doubt anyone that states “the science is settled.”

All that said I did changed my diet drastically a few years ago. Basically cut out all processed foods. Boy do I feel better, have more energy and surprised my doctor. Only bad side effect was that all my clothes stretched out, must have been those new clothes pins I bought.

EDIT: Just saw your post Dr. This is NOT intended for anyone on the board, you all know the 'experts' I am pointing to.


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## Cotton

drfacefixer said:


> While the correlation with cardiac risk is now getting there (years ago it wasn't). A lot of times these patients have so many risk indicators for heart disease, they don't need a confirmatory test that puts them at risk for cancer. There is a place for it, but it's been overused.


This is one of the things that impressed me in the Journal article. The level of understanding is incredible compared to 20 years ago.

The risks of using these systems were known then. I was always torn on the topic. The NIH stats(then) indicated 5% of the people who had a treadmill also had a heart attach within 24 hrs. at that time 50% of first time heart attacks were fatal.

A risk of cancer or a 2.5% risk of certain death? I lost a family friend this way. I was home for a visit, she told me she was being sent for a treadmill test. I asked her to reconsider, said I could make some calls and get her a scan. She declined my offer. 48hrs later she was dead, massive heart attack a few hrs after the treadmill.

Also, I saw a lot of people scanned who needed bypass surgery but had no indicators. Anyway, those old scanners are long gone now. at least I think so, left the medical field long ago. Moved back to the family farm, couldn't be happier.


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## kyredneck

Cotton said:


> &#8230;. A side project of mine these past few years is studying the diets of ancient peoples. I started with native Americans and most recently included peoples around the mediterranean.
> 
> I didn't know there was "modern" mediterranean diet. After reading about it last night and this morning I would endorse it. It is geared towards natural saturated fats, the way ancient peoples ate here and around the mediterranean. Which is in essence is backed by the studies in the article in the British Medical Journal.


Cotton, FTR, I really enjoy your posts, you're a very knowledgeable fellow! It's obvious you've been around the block a few times.

I heartily recommend Sally Fallon's, 'Nourishing Traditions' (browse the customer reviews) for the latest, most sound, true to life info on natural diets consisting of whole foods just like the ancients have done all over the earth down through history, not just only the Mediterranean regions (that's excellent eating though), but everywhere.



> &#8230;.There are many trace mineral products available. I don't promote one over another. I simply say if you want to improve you health improve the soil your food comes from. Then eat like our ancestors did, not as modern society tells us. IMHO


You're preaching to the choir concerning depletion of minerals/nutrients in the soil (I've mostly been an organic gardener <40 years), thanks for the tip on volcanic rock, I'll check that out.

Sally's book opened up a big new world to me, fermented foods. Using good grades of unrefined mineral sea salt (like RealSalt) in the lacto fermentation process is an outstanding way to provide highly assimilable nutrients to the body for good health. I am a living testament to this for five years now. Something as simple and delicious as an old time 'salt pickle' once a day, fermented with a good grade mineral salt could be a very effective 'vitamin pill'!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f78/makings-some-simple-deli-half-sours-20087/


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