# What about a thread on solar storm diaster preparedness?



## razrsharp481 (Dec 28, 2012)

http://preppercentral.com/?tag=solar-flare

http://thewiseprepper.com/tag/solar-flare/

http://thewiseprepper.com/solar-storm-risks-and-effects/
I just finished a course in environmental security in my homeland security major at ERAU. Just wanted to see what all the preppers' strategies were on dealing with something like a solar flare disaster. Feedback, ready, go!


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I see a major solar flare as one of the worst disasters. It has the potential to knock out the electric power grid, with all the attendant failures. That means no communications to speak of, refineries down and no way to pump the fuels on hand, no refrigeration so fresh foods on hand will soon spoil, no deliveries of food of other goods without fuels, many if not most vehicles damaged/not running, Health care facilites can't run equipment and refrigerated drugs spoil, no way to get parts to fix any of this. 

Bottom line is, you wake up one day and all of a sudden you are living like an Amish family, like it or not. Looks to me like TEOTWAKI.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Preparing for a major EMP from any source can take two forms, either trying to preserve what we have now, or, setting up to live without electricity. Some of both makes sense to me.

For preserving our present technology, I am no expert, but I searched the internet and came up with a few links. Some apply to a nuclear source of EMP, but with some exceptions, they apply also to a solar flare EMP.

http://www.aussurvivalist.com/nuclear/empprotection.htm
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/test184.html
http://www.futurescience.com/emp/emp-protection.html
http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf (big file-takes a while to load. It is the EMP commission report.)
http://www.jeddaniels.com/2007/faraday-cage-part-1/ (This is one guy's home made Faraday cage. Several of these on the internet if you search.)

I would want to preserve as much of what I have as possible hoping that the country and the world can recover from the damage and go on. So, I work at ways to do that, such as Faraday cages for electronics, plans to disconnect batteries and otherwise protect vehicles, and grounding a lot of things.

However, I have no illusions that a really BIG solar flare could trash the electric grid to the point that society is in major trouble. Even if we could get emergency level power back to cities within a week, much damage to people and property would happen if this is widespread so that help cannot come from nearby. If a big section of, or the whole country has the grid down, some estimates say that there would be great loss of life in the first year, possibly 90%.

To prepare for that is daunting. It means going back to pre-electric means of doing everything. AND, pre-fossil fuel means, also, if fossil fuels are not to be had. This would be a very ugly situation for at least a few months, even for the prepared and would necessitate finding ways to grow and transport food and other goods by manual labor and animal power. Very few even know how that is done.

Obtaining clean water to drink for the foreseeable future is a big hurdle by itself. That means surface water (ponds, lakes, and streams) with means to purify it for human consumption, or wells and a means to pump out the water, or water collection into a cistern of some sort. This would not bode well for living in an arid climate or a big city. Sanitation practices are limited by the availability of water, to a large degree. Disposing of human waste is a major hurdle where people live close together, but less so in sparsely populated areas.

Stored foods only last until they are gone, so some means of growing food is required. Tilling soil without modern farm equipment is virtually impossible to do on the scale required to feed our present population, and would be impossible to do on an emergency basis without preparation for most people.

My conclusion is that very few would survive a country wide grid-down situation for more than a few weeks at best, and probably a lot less for most people. It all depends on the duration of the emergency. Anything over a couple weeks and we are in DEEP trouble.

For the short term, of say a week or two, most would make it, and with preparation, if the grid came back up within a month, many would survive it. The cities would undoubtedly be chaos, though, and disease would be rampant from drinking impure water, lack of sanitation, and eating bad food. Preparing for that is reasonable, but longer term, not so for the vast majority of people, especially in cities.


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## razrsharp481 (Dec 28, 2012)

I never understood the function of the faraday cage for a post EMP or CME situation. I mean i guess it could be useful thing to store a laptop or some phones in when not in use..but during a situation where the whole grid could be down for possibly more than a year, what good are the electronics anyway. I've seen them all promoted and stuff on preparedsociety but.. Idk


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## ZoomZoom (Dec 18, 2009)

If you get the Science Channel, they've been airing a show on Solar Storms. It's on right now...

I watched it last night. Pretty wild how powerful they can be.

They didn't address preparedness with any detail other than we lose everything if a big one comes.


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## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

two weeks ago, we nearly had a massive solar storm related EMP event - it was a near miss - BE READY -

http://washingtonexaminer.com/massi...-disaster-barely-avoided/article/2533727#null

If you are not familiar with it - read up on the Carrington event.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

WHEN (not if) we get hit by another solar storm like that that stuck us in 1859 - civilization will collapse. There will be no electricity and it will take MONTHS at a minimum to repair the damage.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

razrsharp481 said:


> I never understood the function of the faraday cage for a post EMP or CME situation. I mean i guess it could be useful thing to store a laptop or some phones in when not in use..but during a situation where the whole grid could be down for possibly more than a year, what good are the electronics anyway. I've seen them all promoted and stuff on preparedsociety but.. Idk


The grid being down doesn't make electrical devices useless, it just means you need to make your own power. So if someone protects things with a faraday cage they will have them available in a shtf situation regardless of the effects on the grid.

Years ago I wanted to make sure I could live happily without electricity (there were many reasons for this). I found out that I could and that it really wasn't that much of a hardship with the right tools and setup. It is reassuring to me that I would be fine without power, grid or otherwise.

However, since then I have looked to appropriate technologies to add back into my situation. Electricity is amazing for communications for instance, there really is no substitute, so that is a good point to start. I have a laptop obviously and a connection to the internet, these are easy to protect and have redundancy. Then radios are very easy as well and obviously useful, a pair of radios can be protected and need no infrastructure for use.

Lighting is another area where electricity works great, especially with led technology. It is very easy to put away some flashlights and rechargeable batteries but from there it is not much of a stretch to develop a small alternative energy system for lighting, the demands are not great.

Overall, most things are easily accomplished without electricity if you have the tools and the knowledge, but for certain things there is no reasonable substitute. I actually find the idea of a world without electricity quite fascinating but in reality it just aint gonna happen.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

razrsharp481,

I had the same thought--what good are electronics with no power, or a vehicle that runs when no fuel can be had? But cowboyhermit makes some good points. I plan to use electric lighting as long as I possibly can, along with whatever solar power I can muster.

I think you would run the risk of jealous have-nots though, like the old "fat man" in a famine idea.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> I think you would run the risk of jealous have-nots though, like the old "fat man" in a famine idea.


Perhaps. I would think folks would have candles here and there, they wouldn't attract a lot of attention in and of themselves. But I want a bright momentary light if I feel a threat is near (either two or four legged) with firearms mounted lights w/pressure switches. I also would like to be able to do some occasional reading at night (with blankets over the windows) and a good LED headlamp is VITAL when doing things like tractor/vehicle/fence repair or whatever at night.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

razrsharp481 said:


> ..but during a situation where the whole grid could be down for possibly more than a year, what good are the electronics anyway.


A good 12 volt DC-to-AC inverter will be very valuable in a grid down situation.

It would be prudent to keep one in a safe place. 12 volt DC power should be able to produce even after a major electrical disturbance. Being able to convert 12v DC to 120volts AC will be a VERY useful ability.


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## razrsharp481 (Dec 28, 2012)

I guess I had in mind that the electronics you would want to use in a shtf situation would require Internet. I guess a phone with a light or my iPad with some reference books on it would be helpful. Only if your posted up or stationary though..I suppose lugging around offline electronics on the move would just weigh ya down. . . anyway I digress


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## thenance007 (Oct 8, 2012)

Solar chargers and rechargeable batteries of all sizes would be priceless. My understanding (just from a lot of reading, I'm no expert) is that a huge solar flare would take down the grid but not damage small electronics that are not connected to the grid at the time (unlike a nuclear EMP) . I subscribe to Spaceweather.com for $5/month which texts me alerts within minutes of a flare or CME--cheap insurance if it gives me time to unplug and toss everything into my faraday cages.


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## MDsapper (Mar 12, 2013)

i've been rucking a lot with my 35 pound bob so i should be ready for one to hit, i just need to add some water purification to it and i'll be set


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

A couple more links on the subject I found today:

A near miss: http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/carrington-class-the-world-escaped-an-emp-catastrophe_08012013

Results of a major CME: http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-p...-9-out-of-10-americans-would-be-dead_05042010


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## hpb13 (Apr 17, 2013)

razrsharp481 said:


> I never understood the function of the faraday cage for a post EMP or CME situation. I mean i guess it could be useful thing to store a laptop or some phones in when not in use..but during a situation where the whole grid could be down for possibly more than a year, what good are the electronics anyway. I've seen them all promoted and stuff on preparedsociety but.. Idk


used to think the same way. but i said screw the phone/comp etc i use a farady setup to protect ingnition modules for my 84 ford truck..as for fuel i have a hammer with a pick on the backside.. just my. .02


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hpb13 said:


> i use a farady setup to protect ignition modules for my 84 ford truck.


If you are handy, here is some helpful tech: search for "GM hei module Ford Duraspark".... wrap 'em up in tinfoil, and you won't need a Faraday cage (as long as all terminals are shorted together)



hpb13 said:


> as for fuel, i have a hammer with a pick on the backside.


Those don't work on the newer plastic gas tanks nearly all vehicles have now. They just bounce off.

A wire cutters (*****), some 14 gauge wire with clips, and a 12 volt battery are the way to do it now. Cut the main fuel line with the cutters and slide a 3/8 rubber hose over it - run that to your gas can. Clip the wires running to the fuel pump, and hook up your battery with the clips. The pump will run till the tank is dry.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

The best siphon hose is fuel line (for an outboard boat motor) with the primer bulb. Don't bother with the cheap, plastic hoses sold for siphoning gasoline. They're junk.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> The best siphon hose is fuel line (for an outboard boat motor) with the primer bulb. Don't bother with the cheap, plastic hoses sold for siphoning gasoline. They're junk.


And so are the pumps that you can get with them.:brickwall:


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> The best siphon hose is fuel line (for an outboard boat motor) with the primer bulb.


Most all newer vehicles (late 80's and up) are VERY hard to siphon from due to a baffle being placed in the filler tube.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

A "sort-of" prepper (still a wanna-be, but he's trying) friend of mine bought the vinyl hose with copper plated "shaker" style of siphon hose ( http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200603938 ) to keep in his vehicle for emergency fuel use. I told him to demonstrate it for me on his Nissan Exterra. No go. I offered for him to try it on any of my 3 vehicles, no go.

Really, it's just that hard anymore, even with the outboard primer pump.


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## razrsharp481 (Dec 28, 2012)

LincTex said:


> A "sort-of" prepper (still a wanna-be, but he's trying) friend of mine bought the vinyl hose with copper plated "shaker" style of siphon hose ( http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200603938 ) to keep in his vehicle for emergency fuel use. I told him to demonstrate it for me on his Nissan Exterra. No go. I offered for him to try it on any of my 3 vehicles, no go.
> 
> Really, it's just that hard anymore, even with the outboard primer pump.


Good info, I didn't really know much about siphons before this thread thnx


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

GroovyMike said:


> two weeks ago, we nearly had a massive solar storm related EMP event - it was a near miss - BE READY - (snip)


FWIW, the reports of a near miss EMP event are erroneous. To quote SpaceWeather.com:

"SPACE WEATHER FACT CHECK: Many readers are asking about a report in the Washington Examiner, which states that a Carrington-class solar storm narrowly missed Earth two weeks ago. There was no Carrington-class solar storm two weeks ago. On the contrary, solar activity was low throughout the month of July. The report is erroneous. The possibility of such a storm is, however, worth thinking about: A modern Carrington event would cause significant damage to our high-tech society."

I had been wondering about this report, as I keep a fairly close watch on sunspots, flares, etc., as a way of monitoring and anticipating VHF+ activity.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

as regards fuel.. ive wired a couple commercial pumps n its relatively easy to bypass security n run the pumps with a couple few car bayteries.. just gotta find all the safety relays n the power leads for the pump..


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

This supposed solar maximum has been lame, I miss the northern lights we used to get
Our ability to predict solar activity has been terrible.


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## Idaholady (Apr 24, 2010)

With an EMP you don't worry about trying to siphon gas out of non-working cars....you just punch a hole in the tank and drain the gas out.....

I'm going to build a Faraday Cage from a metal garbage can; what would you line it with and would you ground it? Do I use a piece heavy metal wire and a grounding rod? I don't know of anyone who has made one; so I'm hoping you all could help me out...thanks!


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Idaholady said:


> With an EMP you don't worry about trying to siphon gas out of non-working cars....you just punch a hole in the tank and drain the gas out.....
> 
> I'm going to build a Faraday Cage from a metal garbage can; what would you line it with and would you ground it? Do I use a piece heavy metal wire and a grounding rod? I don't know of anyone who has made one; so I'm hoping you all could help me out...thanks!


You can line the inside of cage with any electrically insulating material like styrofoam, layers of cardboard, etc. Most anything that won't conduct electricity would work. I have one of mine lined with 3/4 inch styrofoam, because that's what I had available. Grounding a Faraday cage for electromagnetic energy isn't needed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Idaholady said:


> With an EMP you don't worry about trying to siphon gas out of non-working cars....you just punch a hole in the tank and drain the gas out.....


That is NOT a "good" plan.
What if the fuel tank is full, and it holds 26 gallons? What are you going to drain it into? An oil drain pan? That only holds 6 quarts. Are you gonna let the other 24.5 gallons just soak into the ground?

http://www.preparedsociety.com/foru...ter-preparedness-20599/index2.html#post276657


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## mechanicmom (Aug 11, 2013)

LincTex said:


> That is NOT a "good" plan.
> What if the fuel tank is full, and it holds 26 gallons? What are you going to drain it into? An oil drain pan? That only holds 6 quarts. Are you gonna let the other 24.5 gallons just soak into the ground?
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/what-about-thread-solar-storm-diaster-preparedness-20599/index2.html#post276657


We just ran into this problem, though not due to an EMP, lol. My in-laws were rear ended and the car was totaled. She just filled the tank full. Her car happened to have a drain equipped at the bottom of the tank. But, like you said, 6 quarts is the max on a drain pan, so we improvised. Rigged a drain at the bottom edge of a kiddie pool, put the car on jack stands, voila! Remove drain plug and let her rip. once emptied, we pulled the pool out from under and filled 3 5 gallon cans, and 2 1 gallon cans. Only fuel lost was to evaporation.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

mechanicmom said:


> We just ran into this problem, though not due to an EMP, lol. My in-laws were rear ended and the car was totaled. She just filled the tank full. Her car happened to have a drain equipped at the bottom of the tank. But, like you said, 6 quarts is the max on a drain pan, so we improvised. Rigged a drain at the bottom edge of a kiddie pool, put the car on jack stands, voila! Remove drain plug and let her rip. once emptied, we pulled the pool out from under and filled 3 5 gallon cans, and 2 1 gallon cans. Only fuel lost was to evaporation.


Glad that worked for you, we have to deal with situations like that a lot too and sometimes improvised solutions can work well. Have used rubbermaid tubs in a pinch to catch oil from a machine  especially when someone forgets to check the manual "It can't possibly hold THAT much"
But I do agree with LincTex, the old "poke a hole in the tank and catch it" doesn't work quite so easy in the real world. Just getting under a car can be an ordeal and some tanks are quite well protected.

ETA; LincTex I have siphoned from vehicles made in the 80's and 90's (nothing newer that I recall), I never found the flap to be much of a problem, just held it up with a piece of wire or a screwdriver to extract the hose:dunno: I have tried the pumps they make though and they are just total garbage in my experience, someone should make one with quality materials and valves.

Siphoning can be tricky in general though, I got lots of practice with fermented liquids and it is easier learning that way. If you ever get a mouthful of gasoline it is not as fun as one might imagine


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

Years ago I saw a contraption that someone had made for pumping gas out a container. It was made with one of those rotary pumps that are meant to be used with an electric drill, but since he was worried about sparks from the drill, he used a hand drill. He braced the pump against the container he was pumping from and just went to town. It worked well enough, but it would get old quickly if there was a lot of pumping needed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mechanicmom said:


> Her car happened to have a drain equipped at the bottom of the tank. Remove drain plug and let her rip.


I'll bet I am not too far off when I say I have worked on at least 1000 cars and trucks in my life.... and I have NEVER seen a "drain plug" on the bottom of a car fuel tank.

Well, I did a search (of course) and apparently MkIII Toyota Supras had a drain plug (but why?) and some early Mazda Miatas. I guess you learn something new every day.... but since I have never worked on either of those, I still have never seen a drain plug on a car gas tank.



cowboyhermit said:


> ...and 90's (nothing newer that I recall), I never found the flap to be much of a problem, just held it up with a piece of wire or a screwdriver to extract the hose


No, the little spring loaded flap is the anti-surge back valve. In the olden days, if a gas tank had a lot of pressure, and you opened the cap on a hot day, the gas would "boil" when the cap came off (like a radiator will when the pressure is released) and a huge stream of gas would come blasting out. That little flap stops that from happening.

The anti-siphon that I am referring to is a misalignment of the filler tube and the tube that goes in the tank, and you can't see it from the outside. Think this mental picture: two pieces of pipe end to end, now stagger the ends slightly... if you push something in one end of one pipe, see how it now misses going into the other one? At least that is how all the newer (94+ )Mustangs do it. Not sure about other vehicles... dropping fuel tanks is not a common occurrence for me.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

k0xxx said:


> meant to be used with an electric drill, but since he was worried about sparks from the drill, he used a hand drill.


 I guess minimum speed of rotation wasn't a design factor in pump design!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

LincTex said:


> No, the little spring loaded flap is the anti-surge back valve. In the olden days, if a gas tank had a lot of pressure, and you opened the cap on a hot day, the gas would "boil" when the cap came off (like a radiator will when the pressure is released) and a huge stream of gas would come blasting out. That little flap stops that from happening.
> 
> The anti-siphon that I am referring to is a misalignment of the filler tube and the tube that goes in the tank, and you can't see it from the outside. Think this mental picture: two pieces of pipe end to end, now stagger the ends slightly... if you push something in one end of one pipe, see how it now misses going into the other one? At least that is how all the newer (94+ )Mustangs do it. Not sure about other vehicles... dropping fuel tanks is not a common occurrence for me.


Thanks LincTex for the clarification, there is definitely a tough spot just before the tank and sometimes it can be tricky if there is not a lot of gas in the tank, seems to like to point the hose in the air. I suspected that was on purpose but never looked into it. Must just be my "mad skillz" then :laugh:

Btw, all this talk of siphoning gas might make me sound shady but it isn't like that it has usually been a matter of driving for an hour or more vs. getting a gallon or two of gas out of the truck to run a small motor, nothing nefarious going on


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

In a lot of ways, a solar storm disaster isn't much different than a pandemic or an economic collapse. The beginnings are different but the effects are similar. With an economic collapse or a pandemic my Kindle will still work. With a solar flare or EMP attack it won't. But the electric grid will go down and mass starvation will still follow with all three scenarios.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

With the solar flare there is a good chance that your kindle will still work, providing you have a way to charge it. So at least you should be able to enjoy a good read while the world burns around you. :?)


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