# Airsoft training: worth it?



## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

I have been playing airsoft almost my entire child and teen-hood and wanted to know your thoughts on airsoft training. I like airsoft because its cheap to shoot and gives me a way to work on tactics and strategies.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

BullDozer any type of training is good as long as is taken serious, and anything that involves the use of nonlethal weapons and tactics is even better, this type of equipment has been around for sometime, back in my days the boys in green used them also, so if you have a group that is willing to learn some tactics seriously, that's a good way to go, it gets better at night in the bush, good luck and practice


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Even my law enforcement agency uses airsoft guns for training. There are two things you must do to use airsoft successfully in training. First you must select airsoft guns that truly replicate the real guns you will be using. I carry an M&P so I have a set of licensed copies of the M&P only in airsoft guise. And your airsoft gun should fit in your holster, attach to your sling, etc. Do not use spring powered as it will teach you bad habits, use gas powered. If the magazine holds 20 rounds and your real gun holds 15 (only load 15). You are trying to simulate live fire and you will perform under stress as you train. The second aspect is to focus on using good tactics. It's real easy when using airsoft guns to have people suddenly go all Call of Duty and forget that they are training. Treat it like the serious thing that it is and you are _training_. Don't and it's _playing_. One increases your skill level. The other decreases it.

Oh, I guess there are three things. Always wear eye protection or you will look like this:


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> Even my law enforcement agency uses airsoft guns for training. There are two things you must do to use airsoft successfully in training. First you must select airsoft guns that truly replicate the real guns you will be using. I carry an M&P so I have a set of licensed copies of the M&P only in airsoft guise. And your airsoft gun should fit in your holster, attach to your sling, etc. Do not use spring powered as it will teach you bad habits, use gas powered. If the magazine holds 20 rounds and your real gun holds 15 (only load 15). You are trying to simulate live fire and you will perform under stress as you train. The second aspect is to focus on using good tactics. It's real easy when using airsoft guns to have people suddenly go all Call of Duty and forget that they are training. Treat it like the serious thing that it is and you are training. Don't and it's playing. One increases your skill level. The other decreases it.
> 
> Oh, I guess there are three things. Always wear eye protection or you will look like this:


I have a gas m&p 40. Made by kwc. I also use a mp5k (RIS with M4 style stock.) i also want to go into law enforcement. So i figured these guns would replicate some things i would use.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

readytogo said:


> BullDozer any type of training is good as long as is taken serious, and anything that involves the use of nonlethal weapons and tactics is even better, this type of equipment has been around for sometime, back in my days the boys in green used them also, so if you have a group that is willing to learn some tactics seriously, that's a good way to go, it gets better at night in the bush, good luck and practice


I play in the bush at night and we have some guys that take turns being rebels or patrols and we have to take out the patrols or take the objective.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Not airsoft but we had my annual paintball (birthday) party Saturday. I left one marker (sans paintballs or CO2 canister) and mask out for Scott to play with. I didn't realize how much he'd watched the "big boys" until early Sunday morning when I saw this.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Haa! thats awesome!

Had a blast 3M, gotta do that again sometime


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

FatTire said:


> Haa! thats awesome!
> 
> Had a blast 3M, gotta do that again sometime


We'll probably get a couple more times in this fall. I'll be sure to send a PM.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Arrggh! It sucks not living in Montana anymore!!


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## Sparky_D (Jun 3, 2013)

I've been "into" airsoft since 1986 or so...

For a while, I just used it as a vent and fun hobby.
I would buy up every and any model I could find that was "cool" or I hadn't owned before.

Now my focus is to replicate my RS gear with airsoft so I can have one set of gear that will serve both my gaming and SHTF/TEOTWAWKI situations and be intimately familiar with the form, fit, and function of my gear.

Just need to budget the $300+ for the new Tokyo Marui gas powered pump 870...


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Airsoft can be valuable if you make sure to structure it as training and not just play time. Like Sentry mentioned it is used by LE agencies as a real training tool. My department uses simunitions rather than air soft but the concept is the same. Use the same equipment you plan to use in the real world. Use the same tactics you will be using. And have friends that understand what you are trying to accomplish and will assist you in your training.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

Sparky_D said:


> I've been "into" airsoft since 1986 or so...
> 
> For a while, I just used it as a vent and fun hobby.
> I would buy up every and any model I could find that was "cool" or I hadn't owned before.
> ...


Haha i know all abt u and airsoft sparky. Haha


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

I was shooting in a weekly competition, and when I started to get competitive was when I would practice with the airsoft before leaving. It made a huge difference on the trigger


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## cody999 (Aug 13, 2013)

I bought my airsoft gun to train with. A lot of shooting is muscle memory, reloading, gun handling, and point shooting. The only downside is that airsoft doesn't mimic shooting, trigger pull can be different, lack of recoil, no muzzle blast etc, that the mind needs to deal with. But otherwise it should make for excellent training but only if like the others said if its taken seriously.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

When I was a kid, we just used our "Daisy" BB guns! Only rule, no shots above the shoulders.


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## cody999 (Aug 13, 2013)

Oh god no not bb guns my buddy shot me in the butt and planted a bb in my left cheek. Not a fun day but its a good story.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

I have posted my thoughts on airsoft before and am glad to do it again if it helps point someone down the right path. Again this is just my thoughts and ideas and not intended to be the "last word" on the subject.

I completely agree that you should train with a copy of whatever you intend to use as your MBR and sidearm. I also agree that even if your mag will hold 100 to 300 airsoft pellets only load what your MBR mags will hold, and the same for your sidearm, so you can get the practice of changing mags until it becomes second nature. Make sure you have a "dump bag/pouch" for your empty mags so they don't get lost in "the heat of battle".

If at all possible get a "combat vet" to train with and learn as much from him as you can. If you can't get a "combat vet" then at least find someone that has had basic infantry training and can teach you simple patrol procedures, offensive and defensive tactics, basic hand siginals, movement under fire, bounding overwatch, overwatch, CQB and a whole host of tactics that I have left out. 

If you don't have one, then I would highly reccomend that you get a copy of the "ranger handbook" and study it. It can't hurt to have it and IMHO it can only help.

Remember to train, train, train, and when you think you can't go on then train some more. "Train as you will fight and fight as you have trained".


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

To add to Oldvets suggestions. If you have a MAG or other people you plan to work with post SHTF, make sure that they also understand the tactics you will be using. Even a concept as simple as bounding/over watch won't work if the people you are working with don't understand the concept. Practice with these people until you know each others movements. Work out a communication method that everyone understands. And remember practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. You will not rise to the occasion you will fall back on your training so train together and train regularly.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

ras1219como said:


> To add to Oldvets suggestions. If you have a MAG or other people you plan to work with post SHTF, make sure that they also understand the tactics you will be using. Even a concept as simple as bounding/over watch won't work if the people you are working with don't understand the concept. Practice with these people until you know each others movements. Work out a communication method that everyone understands. And remember practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. You will not rise to the occasion you will fall back on your training so train together and train regularly.


Excellent points and excellent post, from someone that I'll bet big money has "been there, done that" and Damn sure has the t-shirt.

A well trained and well led fire team would IMHO be the ultimate site security.
Not only can you better defend against a small ill equiped and probably untrained force, you can also do what they will not expect and take the fight to them.

The reason I say a small untrained and ill equiped force is that if you are attacked by a well trained and well equiped force that can stand off and take your BOL apart then in MHO you only have two choices and that is use your "rabbit hole" and bug out or take the fight to them. To stay static against a force capable of taking your BOL out is IMO insane and suicidal.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Their is an unintended benefit to training with air soft guns. Experience with your team members. Lets say you get a vet with the knowledge on room clearing to teach you how to clear a room. You do it enough, you know what the person next to you will do. You build a bond that you can trust when the time comes. 
Also something to consider is working on the simple stuff people forget. 
Gun Changing drills. Its faster to pull a side arm then it is do a reload. Work on stuff that requires muscle memory. 
You might going with paintball or sim rounds if you can afford 'em. It would give you a more realistic hit miss expierence when training. And it would help you with carrying the gear around. Yes I realize its more expensive, but its good training if you do it right.


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

oldvet said:


> Excellent points and excellent post, from someone that I'll bet big money has "been there, done that" and Damn sure has the t-shirt.
> .


Thanks oldvet! I'm not military but I am a police officer and we do use some tactics that have been adopted from the military. We regularly train together and because of that trust each other. I know what my partner is going to do without even looking at him and vice versa. It's very helpful to have that kind of trust and communication when your stressed, exhausted, and hurting. On the flip side I've also worked with a few new guys and it makes it more difficult when you have to try and figure out what their next move is going to be in addition to focusing on the task at hand.


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## Turtle (Dec 10, 2009)

I agree with Oldvet completely, except for one thing:



oldvet said:


> Make sure you have a "dump bag/pouch" for your empty mags so they don't get lost in "the heat of battle".


I am sure that Sentry could more accurately quote the source of this, but, I remember when I was going through firearms training, the instructors always told us specifically to drop the mags and not worry about picking them up while you were firing.

It seems there have been studies done into the cause of officer deaths in the line of duty dating back to the days when departments were issued revolvers. I don't recall the specifics, but there was an incident where three officers were killed in a shootout and they were found with the brass from their spent rounds in their pockets. At first, the investigators were stumped. Then someone suggested that it was because, during training, to avoid the work of having to go back and pick up their brass later on, they were all taught to eject the brass from spent rounds and collect them in their hand and put them in their pocket while on the range. Unfortunately, as has been suggested in this thread and is well accepted,we fight how we train. Those men lost their lives because the idea of pocketing the empty brass was so ingrained in them, when it came to a live fire situation, muscle memory made them waste time when they should've been sending rounds down range.


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Turtle, in L.E. training I totally agree with you and that was what I was taught and taught others to do.

If you are in the Military and get in a fire fight, you may or may not have the luxury of saving some of your mags. You may find yourself in a position where you can be resupplied only by air and those supply drops usually contain food, water, ammo, and other needed items except (as was my experience a bunch of years ago) for extra mags.

Now if the s--- really hits the fan and you are no longer able to run to the store or go online and order replacement mags, then as i said you better have some way to keep them as you empty them.

If you are in a running fire fight and you start dropping your mags on the ground as you move and fire, when it comes time to be able to reload (if you survived the fire fight) what are you going to reload when you have lost most or all of your extra mags?


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Turtle what they found was that Officers would shoot their revolver and then try to dump the spent rounds in a can. They got so used to doing that when they got into a fire fight they would look for a can to dump the brass. A Dump pouch is a different tool then a dump can that the officers were using. First something we must Realize is that their are two types of Reloads. 
Speed: You're out of ammo, completely out of the mag, slide locks to the rear you drop the mag, reload and press.
Tactical: You don't know how many rounds you fired but you know you don't have a full magazine. You reach down with your non firing hand and grab a new magazine rotate it up. Press the Mag release, grab the old mag with different fingers put the new magazine in, old magazine in the pouch. 
This operation is something that is done regardless on an expectation of resupply. In a SHTF, or Civil War, or regardless you can not expect a resupply. 
You can resupply off the enemy dead, but then you are counting on them having the same magazines, and weapon you have. Or that their magazines are good to decent quality as the ones you dropped. 
Something to consider for training, put on your vest, grab your air soft gun, go outside put a magazine in it. Then go to your back yard. Most back yards are decent sized so you can do this. Put some Loud Heavy Metal music on, because it will simulate other sounds, distractors, and stressors. Let your dog jump all over you, again another distractor. And start walking, weapon up, or low ready and work on reloading. 

Slow is Smooth, Smooth is fast. Once you get to where you have mastered it no problem on your Air Soft Gun, get your real gun out, with empty mags and do it again. Or Buy some Dummy rounds for whatever calibers your going to be working with. Buying 90 or so for an AR-15, 30 for an M9 or so. OR use spent casings, that will give you the weight of magazines. Work on that then. The ability to tactically change a mag, and retention of spent or partially spent mags is paramount espicially in WROL or EROL, Without Rule of Law or Extreme Rule of law. 

Again Slow is Smooth, Smooth is fast. Use Air Soft as a stepping stone to the real thing, and to get any bad habits out of the way.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

You're both right. In law enforcement we train to always drop it and move on. In the military we trained to retain. A lot of cops died while putting an empty mag in their pocket. Some soldiers too however. In law enforcement we are generally in fast and furious gun fights, not sustained and entrenched battles (or long term survival situation in a world WROL). I have considered this a few times and always come up with the same answer; drop my mags every single time. I don't want to think about mags when I am fighting for my life, I want to keep that gun loaded and in the fight. If I survive I will go back and pick them up if I can. I would rather keep shooting and stay alive versus keep an empty mag. Then again I prep magazines like I prep ammo; there is no such thing as too much or too many.

The only exception is administrative reloads. When I have a moment of cover I may drop a mag with say 7 rounds and reload with a fresh mag. That partial mag always goes back into my pocket. But this only happens when I have a moment of cover and a second or two to think versus act. I may need those 7 rounds later. But a partial mag NEVER goes back into a mag pouch. That is for fully loaded magazines only.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I like Airsoft. Some friends and I use Airsoft as a way to keep the skills we learned in the military sharp, refine sop's, and also have a little fun. Training doesnt have to suck. As to the mags I train to keep em. Then again I also sit at home and do mag change drills to make sure I can accomplish this task quickly and efficiently. I also buy extra mags just in case.


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

I play airsoft and its a blast. It on some level allows you to see how others might move, how to make sure your a$$ is covered properly, makes you communicate with others, gets you moving and you can get some pretty cool gear...lol


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Cabowabo said:


> go outside put a magazine in it. Then go to your back yard. Put some Loud Heavy Metal music on, because it will simulate other sounds, distractors, and stressors. Let your dog jump all over you, again another distractor. And start walking, weapon up, or low ready....


That's sounds almost like any given Saturday in my backyard ...


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## GlockASP (Jan 30, 2013)

Here in MA where I live airsoft is not as popular as I would like. so I use both airsoft and paintball. 

Paintball does not have the same or even close to real steel feel, but you can still use the same tactics. Woodsball and milsim allow you to use military and law enforcement tactics, to a certain extent. It's not my first choice but you gotta do, what you gotta do. 

If given the choice I would take airsoft first every time.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

My son's 4-H Shooting Sports club received a large gift of some very high quality air soft guns. They're developing a core group of kids for target competition. Can't wait to see where he goes with this.


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## NSAdataCollector (Dec 29, 2013)

Get more out of your air soft training by following every single hit with emergency medical training to include first aid (tourniquets, dressings, etc, evacuation and simulated field surgery. If you're going to train to take lives, train also to save lives.

This name is in jest. I do NOT work for the NSA or any law enforcement agency but you should assume this site is being monitored like everything else. Remember: You have the right to remain silent. Everything you have ever said will be taken out of context, linked improperly & used against you.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

NSAdataCollector said:


> Get more out of your air soft training by following every single hit with emergency medical training to include first aid (tourniquets, dressings, etc, evacuation and simulated field surgery. If you're going to train to take lives, train also to save lives.
> 
> This name is in jest. I do NOT work for the NSA or any law enforcement agency but you should assume this site is being monitored like everything else. Remember: You have the right to remain silent. Everything you have ever said will be taken out of context, linked improperly & used against you.


We do that in milsim, thanks man


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## MasterMaker (Dec 28, 2013)

Cabowabo said:


> Turtle what they found was that Officers would shoot their revolver and then try to dump the spent rounds in a can. They got so used to doing that when they got into a fire fight they would look for a can to dump the brass.


This illustrates a point that can do with some further underlining and that can be a huge problem as far as airsoft and paintball is concerned, bad habits.

Gamesmanship can get you killed in the real world, things such as running to a better shooting position without thinking about it, no big deal to get hit by the occasional paintball or pellet every so often when doing this, having live shit flying at you makes this an entirely different proposition.


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## NSAdataCollector (Dec 29, 2013)

Let's not forget that there is a significant difference between flight characteristics (muzzle velocity, path, deflection and penetration) and your reaction time and the consequences of a hit. Air soft and paintball are games with only marginal tactical educational value.

===== ===== ===== ===== =====
This name is in jest. I do NOT work for the NSA or any law enforcement agency but you should assume this site is being monitored like everything else. Remember: You have the right to remain silent. Everything you have ever said will be taken out of context, linked improperly & used against you.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

NSAdataCollector said:


> Let's not forget that there is a significant difference between flight characteristics (muzzle velocity, path, deflection and penetration) and your reaction time and the consequences of a hit. Air soft and paintball are games with only marginal tactical educational value.
> 
> ===== ===== ===== ===== =====
> This name is in jest. I do NOT work for the NSA or any law enforcement agency but you should assume this site is being monitored like everything else. Remember: You have the right to remain silent. Everything you have ever said will be taken out of context, linked improperly & used against you.


Maybe yes, maybe no. I would tend to agree with you, airsoft and paintball don't even come close to a CQB scenario with simunition and professional instructors. However, that being said... the couch potato who watches it on YouTube (MAYBE!!!) vs. the Monday Morning QB who actually spent the time moving around and learning how to carry gear and make reactionary decisions, figure out basic rules like "hey this is fun, but if it were real I just got killed 20x... maybe I should sort that out before I have to do it for real defending my family"

That kind of learning is priceless and if the person is of the right mindset, thats one of the big takeaways they'll get from a weekend day of playing war.


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## Stryker (Jun 27, 2013)

It will probably help, but nothing can prepare you for the cracks, whistles and zips of lead flying around you.


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