# What is the Best Strategy for the Unprepared Facing SHTF within a Day?



## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

I was shocked when an online friend living in PA said she just went out to get food/supplies less than 24 Hours Before the Big Storm is supposed to hit back East and it got me thinking what would your best strategy be to get food/water/supplies if you didn't have them less than 24 Hours before a Predicted SHTF event or one that just suddenly happened without warning- a small nuke went off in another state 500 miles away, for example.

Obviously the chain stores and groceries would be swamped and most items would be sold out. There would probably be mayhem and rioting inside as well. Would you instead look for some small mom and pop store that's out of the way, take your chances in a Supermarket, chain store, or what? Obviously the best answer is to be prepared in advance but failing that, then what so you do?


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## AdmiralD7S (Dec 6, 2012)

I would probably use the time to read one of the many threads we have on exactly this topic...

I would apologize for being snarky, but it's been a long few days and my PR filter just isn't going to turn on right now.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Sometimes I feel as if we're helping with homework......


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Max out your credit cards getting everything you need the 24 hours before like the rest of the sheeple.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Lock your doors, put a round in the chamber of your pistol and open your bible to Mathew 3:2 "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is near".


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Depends on what's going to happen. If getting to relatives or friends that can help you out isn't an option they'll just have to take their chances with the rest of the unprepared. Hit the large grocery stores first but start near home and work outward. Don't forget sporting goods stores that have camping/backpacking equipment. They'll have food too and ways to purify and carry water, shelter items, communication equipment, batteries, etc. Hopefully the unprepared will have enough sense to know what they'll need and low long they'll need it. If they don't have or know anything about firearms they can pick up some pepper spray and a baseball bat.

In most cases those who haven't planned/prepared in advance will end up with too much of what they don't need and not enough of what they do need. You can't really beat Darwin without a large dose of good luck. It just sucks to be an idiot sometimes.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Put a list together of the things that need to be done if you suspect SHTF.

As an example, I have a list of things in order of importance, starting with topping off food stores, topping off fuel storage, etc..

If you really think that the end is near then charge up cards. I keep two cards with $30,000 limits and I would charge till some one stopped me. Then I would clean out my bank accounts and keep going.

If you have something that critical to your survival and you only have one then you need another one. It could even be something as simple as a manual can opener.

The stuff you need ahead of time are the firearms and ammo with several thousand rounds.


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## AdmiralD7S (Dec 6, 2012)

Tweto said:


> If you really think that the end is near then charge up cards. I keep two cards with $30,000 limits and I would charge till some one stopped me


Depends on what "the end" is. Also, if I knew someone that did what Tweto suggests, I would never trust them anywhere near me or mine; if stealing is the first thing they think of (and what else would maxing out all your credits cards be?), then I hate to imagine what they would be willing to do days or weeks later.



Tweto said:


> The stuff you need ahead of time are the firearms and ammo with several thousand rounds.


Everyone will, of course, have their own priorities: OP, if you think you're going to live through numerous gun fights, then Tweto has some solid advice for you.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> Depends on what "the end" is. Also, if I knew someone that did what Tweto suggests, I would never trust them anywhere near me or mine; if stealing is the first thing they think of (and what else would maxing out all your credits cards be?), then I hate to imagine what they would be willing to do days or weeks later.


Maxing out your credit card is certainly not stealing. You are doing so with the blessing of the bank. But in reality in this 24-hour scenario I don't see how you could spend that much while fighting the crowds.



> then I hate to imagine what they would be willing to do days or weeks later.


You would NEVER want to imagine just what I am capable of to protect my family.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

PeachesBackwards said:


> I was shocked when an online friend living in PA said she just went out to get food/supplies less than 24 Hours Before the Big Storm is supposed to hit back East and it got me thinking what would your best strategy be to get food/water/supplies if you didn't have them less than 24 Hours before a Predicted SHTF event or one that just suddenly happened without warning- a small nuke went off in another state 500 miles away, for example.
> 
> Obviously the chain stores and groceries would be swamped and most items would be sold out. There would probably be mayhem and rioting inside as well. Would you instead look for some small mom and pop store that's out of the way, take your chances in a Supermarket, chain store, or what? Obviously the best answer is to be prepared in advance but failing that, then what so you do?


1. I can't imagine having to stock up right after a disaster, because I've been prepping for a long time. I would, probably, go gas up the vehicles and the gas cans, and take any money out of the bank.

2. Remember how it was the day of 9-11? I don't think the majority of people rushed out to the grocery stores. Instead, they were glued to their TV sets. There is likely a window of opportunity to get your household situated....maybe make sure all your immediate family is safely home, for instance.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

AdmiralD7S said:


> Depends on what "the end" is. Also, if I knew someone that did what Tweto suggests, I would never trust them anywhere near me or mine; if stealing is the first thing they think of (and what else would maxing out all your credits cards be?), then I hate to imagine what they would be willing to do days or weeks later.
> 
> Where did I say to steal???????? I was talking about charging my cards up to the limit!!!!!!!!!! BTW the banks have actually suggested this, because if it is TEOTWAWKI then they wouldn't care but if you are wrong the bank just has a windfall when you pay it back.
> 
> ...


I think the chances of being in a bunch of gun fights is very slim, but it's better to have them and not need them then to need them and not have them. BTW firearms and ammo are prime barter items, it's like money.


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## dademoss (Aug 6, 2011)

Put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I wouldn't worry about it. I think it is called natural selection. Not everyone is going to survive, and really, not to sound too callous, I expect there will be a loss of life in most disasters. Five people have already lost their lives to this storm, or at least that is what I heard on the evening news. 

I have known people who knew there was an intense storm going on, and they just had to be out in the action, driving around, with no place to go and the rest of their life to get there. There will be very foolish people who cannot sit still and will be out there despite all the recommendations to stay home. I think God has a plan for all of us, and many just have to do their part to allow it to happen. 

I know people who keep a very clean house, and that includes a cleaned out pantry. They buy what they are going to eat today and maybe tomorrow. 

Your friend knows what is going on. She won't starve to death with only a couple days food. The electricity and power may go out and she might freeze to death. But she can't think past what she is doing in the next few minutes or past today. This might be what she needs to wake up. Being very hungry or cold for a few days might be a great lesson. She will also want to be one of the fools out there as soon as she can. She can learn from it, or not.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

*Great idea Thanks!*



mosquitomountainman said:


> Depends on what's going to happen. If getting to relatives or friends that can help you out isn't an option they'll just have to take their chances with the rest of the unprepared. Hit the large grocery stores first but start near home and work outward. Don't forget sporting goods stores that have camping/backpacking equipment. They'll have food too and ways to purify and carry water, shelter items, communication equipment, batteries, etc. Hopefully the unprepared will have enough sense to know what they'll need and low long they'll need it. If they don't have or know anything about firearms they can pick up some pepper spray and a baseball bat.
> 
> In most cases those who haven't planned/prepared in advance will end up with too much of what they don't need and not enough of what they do need. You can't really beat Darwin without a large dose of good luck. It just sucks to be an idiot sometimes.


Like the idea about the Sporting Goods Stores Will mention that to my friend. Thanks


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

Starcreek said:


> 1. I can't imagine having to stock up right after a disaster, because I've been prepping for a long time. I would, probably, go gas up the vehicles and the gas cans, and take any money out of the bank.
> 
> 2. Remember how it was the day of 9-11? I don't think the majority of people rushed out to the grocery stores. Instead, they were glued to their TV sets. There is likely a window of opportunity to get your household situated....maybe make sure all your immediate family is safely home, for instance.


Interesting point


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

I could see myself in a situation where the majority of my preps are "out of reach" so to speak. 

Circumstances will dictate what actions we might have to take. Just by travelling 100 miles away from home, by car, will stretch the bag that is in every vehicle we own, if travel by car is impossible. So we have to have some backup plan in place to get back to what we hope is still there. It becomes an even more pronounced problem (or maybe impossible) if we're flying (which I avoid like the plague). 

I agree with Tweeto here, charge what you can... it might be a short-term event, but I want to save cash and other negotiable's just in case things get out of hand. It's not that I have no intention of honoring my debts, but that is not my first concern. Getting my family, or getting back to my family to ensure their safety is my primary concern. All else is secondary. 

I'm willing to pay for what I need first. I have no compunction in taking what I need to ensure my families survival or mine, if the circumstances require that action. I would prefer otherwise, but realistically, if that is the only available option, then I'm sorry. I will be as upright, and law abiding as the circumstances dictate.

Any kind of conflict, whether it is man-made or natural is horrible. I'm not sure that that any one of us here has seen the worst of the terrible things that we can inflict on others. Some here have seen it before. I'm here to tell you though, as much as I would hate myself for doing some things, I would do them in a heartbeat, if it helped my family survive. 

Let's all hope that we never have to cross that bridge. 

JMO


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

Country Living said:


> Sometimes I feel as if we're helping with homework......


Agreed!

But to answer your question...I would pray. This is exactly the reason to prep so that you don't have to deal with this kind of thing.


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## Marcus (May 13, 2012)

PeachesBackwards said:


> I was shocked when an online friend living in PA said she just went out to get food/supplies less than 24 Hours Before the Big Storm is supposed to hit back East and it got me thinking what would your best strategy be to get food/water/supplies if you didn't have them less than 24 Hours before a Predicted SHTF event or one that just suddenly happened without warning- a small nuke went off in another state 500 miles away, for example.


Aren't these type of things the whole reason we're here? The site is called Prepared Society for a reason.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

You can't wait until it's 24 hours or less. By then everybody is at the stores doing the same thing.

To prepare for a winter storm I'd get a kerosene heater and kerosene. Here in Wisconsin there are some places where I can buy kerosene at the pump for a lot less per gallon than by a 5 gallon can. 

I also have kerosene cooking stoves.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I had been prepping for some time when I came across this forum back in 2009. I spent most of my first year reading threads because the subjects in which I was interested were, for the most part, already covered. The bonus of reading was in the discovery of questions I never knew to ask. 

The topic of the unprepared has been beaten to a pulp. Weedy hit the proverbial nail on the head not everyone is going to survive. If people remain clueless or careless about having enough food, water, meds, protection, sanitation, and shelter, then they are in that 'will not survive' group. Every day we're faced with decisions to do something or do nothing. Each time we get to pick the path. We just have to accept there are a lot of people out there who spend their time on excuses instead of resolutions. I can't because..... I won't because.....The government will take care of me..... my friends and family will take care of me..... abrogating their care instead of taking control of it.

There was sufficient warning for this winter storm, as well as most weather events, for people to get prepared for store closings, gas station closings, power outage...... there are a few groups of people for whom I have sympathy such as the homeless and those too old or ill to care for themselves. The rest can whine away.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

The 1st three letters of this site's name are P-R-E, there is a reason for this.

Imagine that you're asking people who have saved and invested for retirement, for decades, "What would you do if you never saved or invested?"

They're going to tell you, "Sorry, I can't help you with that."

Too late is too late.

Sorry I am not a better resource for the unprepared but that's life.

So here's my advice, START RIGHT NOW, DON'T WAIT UNTIL IT'S TOO LATE, START RIGHT NOW!


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

bigg has some valid points. You can either take charge of your life or just float by with the "winging it" plan. Most of us on this forum take responsibility for our family's long term survival by _doing_ instead of _talking_. We prefer the action of executing a plan instead of just talking about it. We use this forum to educate ourselves on new or different perspectives that will help with our survival.

The title of this post is "What is the best strategy for the unprepared facing SHTF within a day?" First of all, there is no SHTF - this is a storm for which there was a long lead time to prepare and it will pass. Second - if you wait until just before, during, or after to think about doing something, you're too late. Just don't go on TV and cry about how you don't have anything to eat and the power is out.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

My family and close friends are already as prepared as their age and finances allow. My wife's family just rolls their eyes when I make suggestions so I don't bother anymore. They are on the east coast and have neighbors that commute into DC for work. I will ask a couple of my nieces what they learned after this is over but I will not waste my time with worry as I've done all that they allowed me to do for them. 

I'll not stress myself trying to help someone but, IF THEY ASK, I'll simply tell them that water, food, and heat are their priorities. 

I don't worry too much about the person that maxes out their credit cards. They will have to pay those off eventually. The one that I see as a thief is the person that goes out and buys all the batteries, or other emergency supplies, in a store and then returns them after the storm is over. This steals the merchants profit and denies their neighbors access to life saving equipment and supplies.


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

The Big Storm isn't really so much a SHTF event as it is an event causing short-term regional disruption. The latter event you can likely prepare for in a day, if you beat the crowds to the stores and have a high limit credit card with a low balance. But the real long-term SFTF event...not likely you can get that done in a day.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

One less Christmas card to write.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Caribou said:


> I don't worry too much about the person that maxes out their credit cards. They will have to pay those off eventually. The one that I see as a thief is the person that goes out and buys all the batteries, or other emergency supplies, in a store and then returns them after the storm is over. This steals the merchants profit and denies their neighbors access to life saving equipment and supplies.


I disagree with that because I think words should have REAL meanings.

There's NOTHING illegal about showing up at lowes or home depot and buying all of the plywood boards, or the batteries, or the snickers bars at the checkout counter.

I would never call that person a THIEF, I would say they were absolutely UNPREPARED and their purchases punctuates that dramatically!!!

but what that person did was not illegal, so they are NOT a criminal. This is the same line of thinking that some folks have saying all the ammo "hoarders" caused the ammo scarcity because they bought everything they could.

Uhmmmmm hey here's a thought... it's their money, if they want to spend it you and your opinion are not part of the equation. you may not agree with it, but so what, it's not your money and if you wanted to go there and buy that first then you should have done so! if youre late to the game and it's all... too bad, sucks to be you. If you're smart enough to prepare and that includes socking away a little bit of ammo money for watching a dip in the market and then you buy some... that's your right!!! just as it is theirs to do with their own money whenever they feel like they may want to.

what people fail to realize is that the people who spend $1000 of ammo panic money today will trade all of it for something stupid later on because they don't know how to build a rifle, or spend the time to train with it, or how to work with others...

they are just going to rely on... I've got my gun! or I've got this ammo!

it's not about the gun, that's what people so rarely get and its why most firearms talk here is heavily restricted.

yeah that guy may do some damage on his way out of this world, but those that did NOT arm and defend themselves in the first place (usually liberals) need to own up to the fact that they could have prevented it and helped other communities grow if they were more in touch with reality and 2A instead of blaming it all on "hunters"


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

dademoss said:


> Put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye.


You beat me to it!... Darn!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Dakine said:


> I disagree with that because I think words should have REAL meanings.
> 
> There's NOTHING illegal about showing up at lowes or home depot and buying all of the plywood boards, or the batteries, or the snickers bars at the checkout counter.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you would care to reread my post. I don't care if you buy out the whole store. You are right in that if it is your money spend it any way your little heart desires. My problem is with the jerk that takes it back to the store after the emergency passes. That is not his money that he is playing with but that of the merchant. Illegal? No. Immoral? Yes. You may not define that as stealing but I do. Not everything that is wrong is illegal. For example, cheating on your spouse. If you reacted so strongly because returning products after a disaster has past is a standard practice for you I would ask that you reconsider your actions in the future.


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## jeff47041 (Jan 5, 2013)

I agree, it is cheating the store owner. The store owner pays, say 4% charge for credit card use when you buy something. I'm almost sure they also pay another 4% charge when you return something.

I too don't care if someone goes and buys out the store, but don't return it after the little event is over and you didn't need it. Suck it up and store the leftovers for the next time.

Besides the fact that when you bought the items, the store owner re-ordered all of that stuff. Then it gets returned and he is stuck with double stock until someone else buys some.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Caribou said:


> Perhaps you would care to reread my post. I don't care if you buy out the whole store. You are right in that if it is your money spend it any way your little heart desires. My problem is with the jerk that takes it back to the store after the emergency passes. That is not his money that he is playing with but that of the merchant. Illegal? No. Immoral? Yes. You may not define that as stealing but I do. Not everything that is wrong is illegal. For example, cheating on your spouse. If you reacted so strongly because returning products after a disaster has past is a standard practice for you I would ask that you reconsider your actions in the future.


You must know some one that does this, take purchased stuff back to the store, or you won't of brought this up. I don't know any one that does this! If I buy something it's mine and I made the decision to buy it. But it's obviously a sensitive subject for you.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

what would your best strategy be to get food/water/supplies if you didn't have them less than 24 Hours before a Predicted SHTF event or one that just suddenly happened without warning- a small nuke went off in another state 500 miles away, for example.

id write down the different places where'd i can get food,water,sources for heat,and any thing else needed.then plan my route where i can go get whats needed,where i get it all done quickly as possible.then get home..

that queston got me to thinking the what if? questions..
what if i didn't have the needed food and/or water?
what if i didn't have the need supplies for heat and/or cooking?
what if i didn't have the needed supplies for light?
what if my mom dont have the needed supply of doctor prescribed meds?
what if im stranded someplace besides at home? and who'll take care of my mom untill i get home?
what if im stranded in a area where i dont need to be during this time?and what will i do to deal with it?
what if i dont have whats needed,to stay warm if/when stranded out on the highway?


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Jim, the purpose of having a plan and executing it is so you don't get caught unprepared. I'm assuming, although it wasn't clear, your first paragraph meant to state you were some distance from home when the event happened.  That's when you execute your "get home plan" with your "get home backpack".

If you are home when the event occurs, then the questions you listed should be moot because you should already have supplies and meds in your preparedness plan regardless of timeline of the event. This includes whether you had advanced knowledge or it was a sudden event. 

Would you please clarify your scenario.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Tweto said:


> You must know some one that does this, take purchased stuff back to the store, or you won't of brought this up. I don't know any one that does this! If I buy something it's mine and I made the decision to buy it. But it's obviously a sensitive subject for you.


It is a Very common practice when people know a big storm is coming and has been for years.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

*You Didn't Read My Question*



bigg777 said:


> The 1st three letters of this site's name are P-R-E, there is a reason for this.
> 
> Imagine that you're asking people who have saved and invested for retirement, for decades, "What would you do if you never saved or invested?"
> 
> ...


Gee thanks Your answer has nothing to do with my question


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

*Good Idea Thanks*



jimLE said:


> what would your best strategy be to get food/water/supplies if you didn't have them less than 24 Hours before a Predicted SHTF event or one that just suddenly happened without warning- a small nuke went off in another state 500 miles away, for example.
> 
> id write down the different places where'd i can get food,water,sources for heat,and any thing else needed.then plan my route where i can go get whats needed,where i get it all done quickly as possible.then get home..
> 
> ...


Even though I am somewhat prepared I like your idea of having a list of local places. Thank you for this.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

PeachesBackwards said:


> Gee thanks Your answer has nothing to do with my question


Gee thanks. Your thread has nothing to do with the topic of this forum. Homesteading and being prepared not trolling like a twit trying to be a jerkoff.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Peaches, here's the difference....Newbies like to come on the board and tout conversations they're having with people who are impacted by weather events. Unfortunately, the newbie comes across as presenting themselves to be somewhat of a subject authority to the person they are supposedly conversing with while coming across as smug (to us) when they themselves are barely out of diapers in the preparedness world.

IMHO


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Caribou said:


> Perhaps you would care to reread my post. I don't care if you buy out the whole store. You are right in that if it is your money spend it any way your little heart desires. My problem is with the jerk that takes it back to the store after the emergency passes. That is not his money that he is playing with but that of the merchant. Illegal? No. Immoral? Yes. You may not define that as stealing but I do. Not everything that is wrong is illegal. For example, cheating on your spouse. If you reacted so strongly because returning products after a disaster has past is a standard practice for you I would ask that you reconsider your actions in the future.


No, I've never done that... return something after "borrowing" it. (although I guess some wiggle room should be made for people that use AutoZone's tool lending program)

But even then, what they are doing is not criminal, it's unethical YES! Immoral? wrongful, wicked, evil?? meh... there's a lot of things ahead of that on those lists right?

The store policy is 30 days return, the consumer did not create the store policy, and yeah, we agree! its wrong for people to knowingly abuse it, but calling their actions criminal or immoral is over the top. Just because they are dishonest doesn't make them felons.

It also makes them opportunistic bottom feeders when they abuse the system and don't take personal responsibility to buy the tools that let them be prepared for the next storm so they don't have to make a rush to the Lowe's store, but they are still not criminals. only severely unethical.

just my take...


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

In a full shtf event someone completely unprepared would be screwed in my opinion. However if they are lucky and can buy enough non perishable food and supplies they may stand a chance if they have needed skills such as a dr and find someone to take care of them before their supplies run out. Even being partially prepared ahead of time could be the difference between survival and death. Most preppers no matter how well supplied would run out and add to their stock if they have time as will everyone else. The chances of someone actually getting enough supplies to survive any length of time off just store shelves after a shtf event are slim to none. If you are lucky you might come away with one buggy worth of groceries. A few cases of water and a handful of canned goods won't last you very long. Best bet is always to use that time to add to your preps not start them. Food, water, water purification, guns, ammo, knives, etc should be highest on your list imho. If you must start prepping the day before shtf then at least try to get the most important things.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper (Aug 15, 2014)

Personal example:

We were fresh off "da plane", having just moved to Houston Texas from overseas. Our original point of origin was Canada. One day I was out at Brookshire training my endurance horse. Just shy of noon, I noticed the property owner battening down the hatches and then she proceeded to tell me she might not be able to get to my horse to feed and water her. mmmm Whats up? I ask. Big hurricane coming she says. mmmmm Apparently it was the due the next day. Big surprise to me as I didn't own a TV and wasn't in the habit of listening to the radio.

So, having just moved to town and owning minimal anything and zero preps, because of an international move, what to do? First off, the horse needed to be moved across the creek to higher ground. She was located literally on the banks of the Brazos. I talked a nearby rancher into letting me turn her out with his cattle on his rather large range. She could then make her own decisions and feed and water herself with room to move to safety.

On the drive back to Houston on the I- 10 I figured to hit one of the grocery stores. The parking lots were jammed so I said forget it. I didn't know much about Houston at the time so I was just going for stores I could see from the highway. I didn't know what an Outdoor store was but the name sounded good and there was one visible just off the freeway at Katy.

Turns out it was packed as well but they didn't need police to guard the doors yet.
In I go and it was horrid. People were running all over the place yelling and fighting. I didn't hold out much hope but I snagged 2 flats of one lb propane bottles as a stocker went by with a new pallet. I did have a camp stove at home; cooking taken care of. Next stop was the camp food isle. No one was shopping there for some reason. Picked up some seasoning, jerky and other stuff which we now know as mre.

Batteries and battery powered lamps were non existent and people were stealing them from each other's carts. It was getting tense. Wandered around and found there was plenty of Kerosene that no one was interested in. Picked up 10 gallons and went looking for a lantern. Plenty of those on the shelf, that again, no one was interested in. Lighting taken care of if we really felt we needed it, but I wasn't thinking we did in Houston.

Took that stuff home and then started covering the house windows with fence boards we had bought for a new yard fence. Listened to the radio while doing this and learned a little about hurricanes on google. Decided we needed to stock up on some groceries. Went to the local Kroger which was pretty calm at that time.
It had been stripped but there was still plenty of food for those who knew what to do with it.

It was strange but there wasn't a single box of useless sugary cereal left in the place. There were however, sacks of oatmeal. So 25 lbs of oatmeal into the cart. Canned fruit section; not much of any thing but lots of unsweetened apple sauce. Apple sauce in oatmeal works; just ask any Canuck who grew up poor. Canned fish section. Tuna in oil sold out but no shortage of tuna in water  So tuna in water it is. Plenty of egg noodles, so tuna casserole here we come. Went to the veggie department and filled some carts with root veggies which will keep even in Houston for at least a week, or more, if you dig a hole in the shady back yard. Went to the meat department and bought some frozen turkeys and chickens which are edible ice blocks and will keep a cooler going for days and then you can turn them into soup when they are thawed.

A chest freezer filled with frozen food covered in moving blankets will keep for a very long time. I also had plenty of thin styrofoam sheeting from the packing boxes to further insulate the freezer. 

Anyways...food for a short term disaster is readily available at the last minute because no one knows what to do with the "perishables" and they do not buy them.

We did have a diesel generator that we carted around the world for the constant brownouts we endured over seas in hot places. Turns out that when the gas pumps are sold out in Houston, there is plenty of diesel still to be had, so filling the cans and truck was doable even throughout the evacuation. Seems like no one drives diesel there. There wasn't a single vehicle at the diesel pump at any time we went for more.

We did learn from watching the evacuation, that the best time to evacuate for a short term event is either days before and just hours before. The roads were completely empty hours before Rita was due. There were just the rescue squads out fetching people from all the breakdowns. We could have been well clear of Houston at posted speed in a diesel truck with some spare cans if we had wanted. 

We decided if this crap was to occur again we would throw the camping gear and the now stocked up supplies in the truck, start early, and head for Canada for a vacation. People are idiots and it doesn't have to be that way; even at the eleventh hour. Two years later we had to sell everything to move to Indonesia. So glad to be back in Canada now and properly set up for good.


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## jimLE (Feb 25, 2015)

Country Living said:


> Jim, the purpose of having a plan and executing it is so you don't get caught unprepared. I'm assuming, although it wasn't clear, your first paragraph meant to state you were some distance from home when the event happened. That's when you execute your "get home plan" with your "get home backpack".
> 
> If you are home when the event occurs, then the questions you listed should be moot because you should already have supplies and meds in your preparedness plan regardless of timeline of the event. This includes whether you had advanced knowledge or it was a sudden event.
> 
> Would you please clarify your scenario.


those questions i ask myself,when at home or on the road.i ask myself those questions to make sure i have whats needed at the time.and to remind my self time to time,to whats needed.be it on the road,or at home.thinking of those questions helps plan ahead when i know when a bad rain storm or bad snow storm is on it's way.this way i can plan ahead and make sure that i have whats needed on hand at the time of the need(s)..i am prepared,at least somewhat,if not mostly for everyday situation,of where i live.but yet,i like to stay on top of what i do have,and whats needed.this way,i can go out and get what i do need,if i need/have to.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Dakine said:


> No, I've never done that... return something after "borrowing" it. (although I guess some wiggle room should be made for people that use AutoZone's tool lending program)
> 
> But even then, what they are doing is not criminal, it's unethical YES! Immoral? wrongful, wicked, evil?? meh... there's a lot of things ahead of that on those lists right?
> 
> ...


A tool lending program is just that and the cost to the store is factored into the cost of their inventory. A certain number of people returning items that just don't fit or work the way the customer thought is a normal part of daily business and is factored in. The person that buys and stores excess stuff today is prudent. The person that waits to buy till the last minute is fine, but the person that hoards just at the start of a crisis not only puts his neighbors at risk but steals the profits of the merchant.

I think we pretty much agree on right and wrong though I do use stronger terminology and I probably feel more strongly about it.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Tweto said:


> You must know some one that does this, take purchased stuff back to the store, or you won't of brought this up. I don't know any one that does this! If I buy something it's mine and I made the decision to buy it. But it's obviously a sensitive subject for you.


I know someone who does this regularly with all kinds of stuff. He buys it, uses it then returns it saying it wasn't what he wanted. His excuse is that if the store doesn't want people doing this (satisfaction guaranteed) then they should change their policies. Many have tried to tell him that he's abusing the system but you can't change a closed mind nor can you make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Some people are best just avoided ... permanently!

(I don't think he cares much for me anymore either.)


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

Self defense can certainly be a realistic aspect to any human involved crisis but I would not consider "combat" to be a likely imperative. That being said I think being able to protect yourself is important but things like WATER, FUEL, WATER, MOBILITY , WATER, SHELTER, FOOD, FIRST AID and WATER will probably be more important.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Wikkador said:


> Self defense can certainly be a realistic aspect to any human involved crisis but I would not consider "combat" to be a likely imperative. That being said I think being able to protect yourself is important but things like WATER, FUEL, WATER, MOBILITY , WATER, SHELTER, FOOD, FIRST AID and WATER will probably be more important.


Everything you listed is moot if there is no security.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

Country Living said:


> Everything you listed is moot if there is no security.


Exactly!!!!!


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

Country Living said:


> Everything you listed is moot if there is no security.


Their fist has to be a threat to your relative security in order for security to be more critical than basic health needs which are considered inevitable. You are going to need water and although you may have 6 rifles and 900 rounds of ammo, it doesnt help you mitigate dehydration or any other basic health related need.

As I said earlier, I am a proponent of a person being able to defend themselves but the fact that I place "combat" lower on the likely threat scale as compared to other health related needs is simply an example of Socratic reasoning.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*If I had*

Of course it is best to prep ahead but that was not the question.

If I suddenly had to prepare after the SHTF and it was in say 24 hours of the initial event, it would not be advisable to attempt to do this at your local grocery store.

I would take cash and go straight to the local farm store and buy feed corn , wheat soy beans, barley, oats and if I couldn't buy that, I would but dog food.

While I was there, I would buy animal antibiotics.

You are going to need other items but now you have something to barter with.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Let me line out my priorities.
Security
Shelter
Water
Food

Security is first because the bad guy can kill you in seconds. Not likely but far more likely in a SHTF situation.

Shelter because the weather can kill you in hours.

Water is next because dehydration can kill you in days.

Food is last because it takes weeks to starve to death.

The lack of any of these leaves you dead so they are all important. Having security can buy you time to secure shelter. having shelter can buy you time to get water. Having water can buy you weeks to find food but you must have it all. Without some sort of defense someone can take everything else. This might be one way to represent the concept.

Security ↓ ← Food

Shelter→ Water↑


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Wikkador said:


> Their fist has to be a threat to your relative security in order for security to be more critical than basic health needs which are considered inevitable. You are going to need water and although you may have 6 rifles and 900 rounds of ammo, it doesnt help you mitigate dehydration or any other basic health related need.
> 
> As I said earlier, I am a proponent of a person being able to defend themselves but the fact that I place "combat" lower on the likely threat scale as compared to other health related needs is simply an example of Socratic reasoning.


Western culture put less importance on security because we have it. But in most of the world where there is no security it becomes the number issue.

In a SHTF or EOTWAWKI scenario the security that you had and forgot about is now gone.

Here's another way to think about it. If you are at home and you are eating dinner or you are taking care of your health issues and you hear some one trying to break down your door. What do you do, do you finish your meal or finish taking care of your health or do you drop every thing and address the thugs trying to break down your door. If you answer is , you drop what your doing and address the thugs then you have just made security your number one most important issue whether you knew it or not, security is and always will be the number one most import item to take care of before anything else.

Security is an acute issue, all others are chronic problems.


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

> Here's another way to think about it. If you are at home and you are eating dinner or you are taking care of your health issues and you hear some one trying to break down your door. What do you do, do you finish your meal or finish taking care of your health or do you drop every thing and address the thugs trying to break down your door. If you answer is , you drop what your doing and address the thugs then you have just made security your number one most important issue whether you knew it or not, security is and always will be the number one most import item to take care of before anything else.


sure, and you can replace "thugs" with a electrical fire and just as easily change the dynamic of the event .. that has nothing to do with an intellectually honest threat matrix. Security is relative to what is happening or has happened.. security is not typically an imperative during a forest fire, sinking ship or a flood. Can it be.. sure but not all disasters hinge on combat as the threshold for survival. Self defense can be a realistic element and it should be part of just about any survival system but in my estimation and in my own unique circumstance, I will relegate other issues like water, first aid, communications, fuel and mobility to hold more of a forward position in my idea of riding out a crisis.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Wikkador said:


> Their fist has to be a threat to your relative security in order for security to be more critical than basic health needs which are considered inevitable. You are going to need water and although you may have 6 rifles and 900 rounds of ammo, it doesnt help you mitigate dehydration or any other basic health related need.
> 
> As I said earlier, I am a proponent of a person being able to defend themselves but the fact that I place "combat" lower on the likely threat scale as compared to other health related needs is simply an example of Socratic reasoning.


Defense has the unfortunate burden of high costs, training, and the will to use it...

Air, water and then food are the most important aspects of seeing tomorrow, because they matter every second of every day. yeah food less but it's the point that was being made... don't go nuts on water if you don't have defenses, but at the same time, don't spend $1000 on defenses if your water preps for you and the family is your $20 lifestraw. right?


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Tweto said:


> Western culture put less importance on security because we have it. But in most of the world where there is no security it becomes the number issue.
> 
> In a SHTF or EOTWAWKI scenario the security that you had and forgot about is now gone.
> 
> ...


that's a highly pointed and specific example. Are you going to wear your plate carrier and 20 lbs of AR500 steel to do the gardening every time? to collect the eggs from the chicken coop?

Your need for security is based on a lot of things outside of your control, and God willing, on somethings you can influence.


will bad guys get taken down by the LEO as they find them? maybe? nice thing to hope for but depending what happens and how it happens, LEO have families and problems of their own to take care of. Are you going to be manning the cash register at the garden center of walmart if SHTF because it was your job to be there? Probably not, why would they be less concerned about family and circumstances than anyone else?
will bad guys get taken down by kicking in the wrong door before they get to yours? maybe?
Are you 1 block from 1000 bad guys in gang land or are you 10 miles from 10 bad guys in a remote small town far from large cities?

the situation dictates everything. at my place, meh... I'm gonna wear the armor going outside to tend rabbits, and I'm going to be using all my tools and tricks to make sure nobody is playing games waiting for me. Dogs, surveillance cameras, thermal camera, night vision, anything I can do to help give me the edge.

I don't see "defense" being sustainable unless you're in a very well organized and very well led MAG.

For the everyday home dweller nearly any example of how to prepare for defense ends in "checkmate" when someone outside simply gets bored with that crap and decides to burn the house down. You think that strategy will take them very long to think up? 

"having" defenses is essential, and it's just poor judgement to put it off and not to train with them. I think we all agree on that much at least.

I personally feel the defenses get weighted less the more limited the budget is... AS LONG AS... you get them, and are prepared to use them.

Also, information is something we didn't bring up in this thread yet (if someone did I apologize it I missed it) but GMRS, HAM, and what color towels are on the laundry lines that day and if they are still there at night! those are all pieces of information. I would never talk to my neighbors today about clotheslines and towels LOL, they'd think I'm nuts!

On the other hand, there's at least 2 neighbors that I should have long ago gone to introduce myself because I know from their HAM antennae rigs they are way more serious about it than I ever planned to be.

to echo one of the things I say often... so many moving parts here... doing it yourself sucks.

For anyone reading this and realizing they have nothing, I urge you to try and budget what you can as fast as possible for defenses, a shotgun can be defenses and hunting, and defenses vs. hostile critters... lets not forget that danger comes on four paws just as easily as two feet, and we already have cities in America where wild dogs have made packs and people have been mauled and worse (looking at you Detroit)

my personal thoughts...

shotgun, remmy 870 or mossberg 500, entry level and highly reliable.
a .22lr rifle, take your pick. there's ruger 10/22, Marlin makes a fantastic model which escapes me at the moment, there's the Henry AR-7 clones... lots of options.
a handgun. seek professional advice, you need to be able to carry it's weight daily, and ideally if you can without everyone else seeing you've got it, and also just as above be proficient.

ammo for everything above.

If I had absolutely zero preps and all of a sudden the news in USA turns into the fall of Argentina or Greece...

I'd spend everything I can water containment (jugs, bathtub, etc) and filtration. If you drink contaminated water, you won't live long and healthy enough to fight off the bad guys, you're signing up for dehydration from diarrhea, or you're giving away your position and the fact you have excess fuel to make a fire to boil water that maybe everyone else doesn't even have the water much less the firewood fuel.

I'm sorry this got so wordy


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

So many people forget about security issues and become complacent during smaller events. I have talked to numerous people stranded during Katrina. Every single one agreed water and security should be your top priorities. It takes weeks to starve but only seconds to die at the hands of a desperate individual and days to die of thirst. It's nice to think Leo will protect us but in reality Katrina has shown us that a badge doesn't change someone's character. Some will turn desperate, some will go home to their families, and some will stay to help. In the end those supplies are only as good as long as you can keep them. As far as which things are the highest priority I agree location will determine that. If you live in a desolate area in the desert then water is number one. If you live in the city then security. Near a lake in the middle of nowhere then prolly seeds, medicine, water filtration, and barter items. If already well stocked on supplies and live in a good secure location then you might want barter items or hygiene or medicine. No one thing fits all locations or individuals highest priority. Also one needs to remember about security just being out and about gathering supplies leading up to a major event. Many people have been robbed and killed during this time.


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## Tactic12 (Dec 16, 2012)

Order groceries with Amazon?


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Tactic12 said:


> Order groceries with Amazon?


I ordered 48 cans of Spam from Amazon. Yes Amazon has food. We have also ordered cases of our favorite sauces and spices from amazon.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Tweto said:


> I ordered 48 cans of Spam from Amazon. Yes Amazon has food. We have also ordered cases of our favorite sauces and spices from amazon.


Tactic was being a smartass in response to the OP question.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

Today, Jan. 30, 2016, a multi-episode, opinion piece entitled: *Making a "Last Run" When SHTF-Part 1, by GMJ*, is featured over on survivalblog.com.

For those planning such an event, it may be a worthwhile read.


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## PeachesBackwards (Sep 8, 2015)

*Good point/Analogy*

Unfortunately what you said quoted below is so true and right now I am screwed! Hopefully in a year from now when I've gotten my finances in order and know whether I'll be moving or not, I can make Security my main focus. Yes, I am aware of this problem but I still have other priorities, unfortunately for the immediate present. Totally agree with what you said.



Tweto said:


> Western culture put less importance on security because we have it. But in most of the world where there is no security it becomes the number issue.
> 
> In a SHTF or EOTWAWKI scenario the security that you had and forgot about is now gone.
> 
> ...


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