# Money Equivalents?



## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

I know many prep needs differ with the type of scenario. i.e. preparing for financial collapse is different than a bio hazard, yet at the same time there will be overlapping areas where the prepped item will serve both scenarios. 

I feel a money equivalent will be one of those items as it’s a requirement regardless of the disaster. I looking for items other than cash as the dollar can become worthless quickly (or in the case of a financial collapse will be worthless already). 

These items should have barter value while at the same time are things that we can use ourselves on a daily basis. Hopefully these items will increase in value with the length and magnitude of the disaster.

So to get started, lets say we're working with a surplus of between $500.00 and $2,500 cash dollars. 

What would you buy?


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

to me the thing that would be most useful would be a junk yard.... LOL

You can take many things and make them into other things.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Other than Silver and Gold,maybe pickup some small filled propane cylinders, they won't go bad except the tanks in 10 years, if nothing happens in 9 years start using them for your grill and trade em out for different ones at Walmart or other "trade out centers"


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

If you are talking about barter then there are many items, but ammunition comes to mind.

If you are money then PM's are your answer. Junk silver is a favorite as it is easily identified and not worth counterfeiting. Gold chains might also be handy as you can clip off one or more links. Determining the gold content might be a bit sticky though.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

If you haven't already, buy some printed books. Gardening, herbs, wild harvesting... Food and water will be huge barter items. Learn how to grow, preserve and process food. Learn how to filter water, and how to store/transport it. Have something handy available to trade it with.

Any skills you can learn could be worth their weight in gold (or silver). Can you fix a roof? Do you have materials available to do so? If someone gets a cut or breaks an arm, would you know what to do and have something available to help them? Knowledge and an extra set of hands makes for great barter even today. 'I'll help you fix your roof for three chickens, or three weeks of eggs.'

Other than that I stocked up on things that might not be readily available. The roof scenario again: Do you have any extra lumber or sheet of plastic to repair it with? Great barter would be knowing your neighbor had a tree fall on their home and showing up with a dozen 2x's and a roll of roofing or some plastic to fix it.

Do you do any canning? How many extra cases of jars do you have on hand? They are not costing anything but space to have on hand and we all know nothing is getting (or is going to get) more inexpensive as time goes on. Look around your home at what you use today. Other folks use the same things. If you were to stock up on a few things or at least have a backup, you could find someone to whom that item is valuable.

My personal luxury item is something I like to call toilet paper. Yeah, you can live without it buy why would you have to? I stocked up on 12 packs of my favorite brand years ago, at half the price of what it is now! I most likely will never have to buy any again, so will have some for barter if the need arises. Sure, a tornado or hurricane could come and take all that away, but we cannot plan for everything!

So, take a look at what you and your family use, and spend your fiat dollars having some extra on hand.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Since you asked about money rather than wealth or currency, let's cover what money is generally regarded to be. Money must be a medium of exchange such as when it is used to intermediate the exchange of goods and services. It thereby avoids the inefficiencies of a barter system.

Money must be a unit of account in that it is a standard numerical unit of measurement against the market value of goods, services, and other transactions. To function as a 'unit of account', whatever is being used as money must be:

- Divisible into smaller units without loss of value; precious metals can be coined from bars, or melted down into bars again.

- Fungible: that is, one unit or piece must be perceived as equivalent to any other, which is why diamonds, works of art or real estate are not suitable as money.

- A specific weight, or measure, or size to be verifiably countable.

Money must be a store of value which means money must be able to be reliably saved, stored, and retrieved – and be predictably usable as a medium of exchange when it is retrieved. The value of the money must also remain reasonably stable over time in relation to commodities like food, clothing, shelter, etc.

Money must be a standard of deferred payment, which is to say an accepted way to settle a debt.

Precious metals are, by the definition above, money. Land, gems, art and other things may be stores of wealth or means by which wealth can be created but they all miss the mark for being money.

Buying junk silver US coins is a popular choice for many because the silver content (90%) is not in question and they are recognizable sovereign coins that come in many sizes. Generic bullion silver rounds are available in several sizes, too (.1 oz, .25 oz, .5 oz, 1 oz, and larger). I've bought from Provident Metals and Apmex with no problems or complaints.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Thank you all for your input. Lets raise the surplus money at hand up to $25,000. This opens the field to investment status. Here you are with $25K of cash in the bank but you know it's not a safe bet to leave it there. So you pull it out and do what? 

Firearms? Ammunition? Silver? Gold? Maybe buy a piece of land outside of town? Make a donation to the "Re-elect Obama for a 3rd term fund"?

Almost everything you buy should be an item you use yourself but also be marketable so that it will effect your net worth in a positive manner. Much like stock, you're going to get rid of this stuff someday, but hopefully at a profit!

What will you invest your $25k in?


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

*Buy Something That Produces An Income*

What that is depends on you. For me it has been stock for a welding/machining business. For someone with a farm it could be livestock and their needs, or machinery, fuels, fertilizers, etc.. If you don't have a business or trade, use the money to GET one and be ready to make it happen, preferably BEFORE things go bad, since there is a steep (and brutal) learning curve to being in business.

Choose that business (that's what TRADE is) according to what you believe will work in a post-SHTF world. Until I retired, that was doing farm equipment repair work in our own shop. I also fixed lawn and garden things, hobby stuff (boats, motorcycles, trailers, power tools, etc.), and household goods.

My Dad was born in 1900, so he was 29 when the Great Depression hit. He said the businesses that did best were groceries, bars, and funeral parlors. He didn't mention the moonshiners, but that was implied. He got by doing carpenter work by the job and owning a 1 1/2 ton truck. He hauled coal from the mines to sell for home heating, hauled logs, grain, driveway stone, livestock, water for cisterns, and spent distillery mash (what's left after they cook off the whiskey) to farmers for hog feed.

My Grandad had a furniture shop and made anything to order, including molding trim for houses, wood school bus bodies for the county schools, and coffins.

Others raised fresh garden produce to sell (acres of it), kept milk cows, goats, chickens and rabbits IN TOWN up through the early 1950's when I was a kid.

Those who had their own sources of income, or at least supplementary income, did the best. There is always money to be made if you aren't real picky about what you are willing to do.

In short: Equip a business.

That might mean buying a used truck, used backhoe, sewing equipment, or whatever. But you'd better do your homework about the market for what you plan to do, or it's a waste. If you buy a backhoe and plan to only build root cellars, you're in trouble. Be ready to do WHATEVER PEOPLE WANT! If that means digging holes for outhouses, then that's what you do.

Be careful to not expect people's spending habits to be the same later on. They may want their motorcycle fixed NOW, but when things get really hard, it can sit while they keep more important things paid for. Look for genuine NEEDS that cannot be gotten around, and figure out how to be competitive. Hair salons, tanning beds, and manicure parlors are going the way of the buggy whip in a tight economy. But farmers' markets are doing well where they keep the prices right. "Organic" produce will become less important than filling bellies at a reasonable price.

If you buy trade goods only, then when they are gone, you are broke. You will have to participate in whatever economy develops at the time.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Pay off existing debt, buy land well away from an urban center, raise livestock and grow my own food. I've already got the food stores, firearms and ammunition, medical supplies and consumables covered for a pretty long time. If you don't yet have the basics, spend the money on those things.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Already I see foreclosed businesses and homes in some quantity. Look around you and see what did NOT work so far. Those are things to avoid. Look at which businesses are getting more traffic. In this area that is the Dollar General Stores, and less at Wal Mart. More at the Goodwill Stores (even some expensive SUV's in there now), and less at Kohl's. 

The martial arts places are closed here, along with a couple tattoo parlors and several factories. What is going pretty well are the rental places for furniture, TV's and the like, and the equipment rental places. Apparently, people are choosing to rent a ditch witch and lay their own water lines, or whatever, rather than pay a pro. 

There have been several back alley mechanics doing well, while the car dealer shops are sucking air. People are keeping their old cars so new ones aren't selling. The tire shops still get some business, but not as much. People are driving less. The auctions are well attended, whether they be selling farm equipment or household goods. Used equipment prices have gone up because people can't afford to buy new stuff. 

There is always an ad in the paper for the guy who refurbs old computers and sells them cheap. Likewise, the appliance guy who repairs and sells used stuff. 

Motels along the interstate here have gone belly up. People aren't travelling. But 3 new thrift shops I have seen are doing okay.

Give this some thought about how the people you know have changed their spending habits.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

What Machinist said. Read his books and you will get an education in an entertaining manner.

If you don't have a skill to barter, use some of your cash and a bunch of your time and develop one, at least one. Any remaining cash can be used for tools and inventory. Floods, fires, tornados, or thieves, whatever happens, as long as you have breath you have your skills. Even if you can't physically do the work you can still supervise and teach.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

squerly said:


> Thank you all for your input. Lets raise the surplus money at hand up to $25,000. This opens the field to investment status. Here you are with $25K of cash in the bank but you know it's not a safe bet to leave it there. So you pull it out and do what?
> 
> Firearms? Ammunition? Silver? Gold? Maybe buy a piece of land outside of town? Make a donation to the "Re-elect Obama for a 3rd term fund"?
> 
> ...


 Whatever you decide, Please, Please, DON'T Make a donation to the "Re-elect Obama for a 3rd term fund"?


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

bkt said:


> Money must... and be predictably usable as a medium of exchange when it is retrieved.


I know many of y'all are big on PM, but I'm not & here's why- how many folks actually know what an ounce of gold is worth or what it looks like? I don't have a clue, nor do most people, & that's why I think there will be some mighty disappointed folks when TSHTF & they try to use PMs as a means to buy goods & services. Most don't have a clue of the value & aren't comfortable dealing in it. Now, if your plan is to use PMs as a way of preserving wealth into the recovery period after TSHTF, then that makes sense to me. I'm ducking!


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

See T we do agree sometimes!! :beer:


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

tsrwivey said:


> I know many of y'all are big on PM, but I'm not & here's why- how many folks actually know what an ounce of gold is worth or what it looks like? I don't have a clue, nor do most people, & that's why I think there will be some mighty disappointed folks when TSHTF & they try to use PMs as a means to buy goods & services. Most don't have a clue of the value & aren't comfortable dealing in it. Now, if your plan is to use PMs as a way of preserving wealth into the recovery period after TSHTF, then that makes sense to me. I'm ducking!


I know where you are coming from. I do know what gold looks like and there is a bit to it if you want to get into it in a big way. It's not rocket surgery and anyone with an interest can learn it.

You do know what a quarter and a dime look like. Any pre 1965 quarters and dimes are 90% silver. If you look at the edge of current coins you will see a copper stripe, these are worth face value. The 1964 and older are called junk silver. This is popular because most people recognize it for what it is and because silver costs less than gold and you buy bread more often than cars it is more convenient.

For most people PM's are a hedge, they are just there to fall back on when all else fails. I would not worry too much about PM's until you have your land, your food, and most other preps.


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## myrtle55 (Apr 1, 2014)

I don't know what PM means, but I feel like the OP was asking what I would spend my money on that I thought would benefit me most in a shtf situation, but would also be valuable in current times. I agree that ammo would be good, but I think OTC medicine and wound care items would be great barter items, as well as edibles. I also agree that home canning supplies would be wanted badly and water filtration (think lifestraws , etc) I think what I would barter my most prized items would be 1..something my family needed to live (emergency type) and 2. Physical labor help. That's my take
It seems in all emergent situations someone breaks into pharmacies


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

PM=Precious Metal typically gold and silver though platinum and others are included. Some will jokingly refer to their PM's as being copper and lead (ammo).


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

FatTire said:


> See T we do agree sometimes!! :beer:


Woohoo!!! :beercheer: At least I have someone on my side now that I've went & blasphemed PM's on a prepper board!


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

A post by Padre in another thread on this board really got me thinking about creating income when all things around us change.



Padre said:


> Just think back to the Newtown scare last year--ARs I bought for $600 were going for double that. How easy it would be to sell an AR for 10k if the SHTF?


I wasn't originally thinking of capitalizing on a bad turn of events but there will be a lot of unprepared folks out there when the world as they know it takes a dump. Medical supplies, ammo, firearms (even inexpensive guns that you wouldn't normally give space in your gun safe) will all become coveted commodities. A well supplied storeroom will make life a lot easier for not only ourselves but for those who have not thought beyond what's for lunch this afternoon.

I would think that a closet full of AR's (5.56 NATO) would be the cat's meow. Single shot .22's would probably be worth even more. But what's more important than anything is that I can site capitalism as my motivation for collecting firearms when that nutcase Pelosi asks "Why does anyone need all those guns?"


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

well I still say silver because there will be people who know what it is worth and will trade. On the other hand nothing wrong with canned goods if your bugging in. 300 cans of tomater sauce cost $99 at my Walmart. 300 cans of fruit is $267 and corn is $186 for 300 cans, and canned chicken is 300 cans for $291. So for about $850 you could have 1200 cans of food.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

When it comes to skills & trade goods for a SHTF scenario," putting all of your eggs in one basket" is even riskier than doing so in a "healthy" modern economy.

Build multiple barterable skills and invest in multiple commodities. You may find yourself in dire need of something or someone that doesn't need or want your one skill or commodity. Your skills are only worthwhile if you can physically perform them. Your commodities will wax and wane in value, even in TEOTWAWKI.

With $25K, "beans, bandages & bullets" will all have value, livestock & seed stock, mechanical & medical skills and security services will all be in wide demand.

The one commodity that I see gaining huge value post-SHTF is draft animals. Few people raise and use them today, their value is inestimable in a non-motorized world.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm sure gold and silver are great ideas but for me, I'll stick with water, food and tools for thriving in a day when banks or the grid or society has gone completely bankrupt. I can't eat it and I wouldn't want to melt it down and shoot it out of my muzzleloader. I do have several hundred pounds of lead. That may become a precious metal one of these days


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I think it will take quite a bit of time AFTER SHTF that gold, silver will be of any use. As food, seeds, water, fuel of sorts will be in demand. Labor will be traded for food, water, security. The metals will come back only after society settles down again, if it does.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

there have been some really good answers so far, skills is huge, knowledge is huge. having a bunch of stuff to trade is in my opinion questionable. because it is very finite. having tools and equipment on hand to build or repair thing makes most sense to me. A lot of manufacturing has moved off shore so in the event of global economic collapse the new stuff just stop, but more importantly so does the ability to build new. PM s are IMO are for when you have ALL of you other ducks in a row, A good running tractor with some tillage equipment will be worth a lot, so will engine and other oils. Food preservation equipment and knowledge.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

tsrwivey said:


> I know many of y'all are big on PM, but I'm not & here's why- how many folks actually know what an ounce of gold is worth or what it looks like? I don't have a clue, nor do most people, & that's why I think there will be some mighty disappointed folks when TSHTF & they try to use PMs as a means to buy goods & services. Most don't have a clue of the value & aren't comfortable dealing in it. Now, if your plan is to use PMs as a way of preserving wealth into the recovery period after TSHTF, then that makes sense to me. I'm ducking!


I have no intention of using PM in a barter situation unless it is with someone who recognizes PM and is willing to use it. The purpose for acquiring and holding it today is as a store of wealth. After the dust settles, a new currency will be released at which point it might be prudent or necessary to trade in the physical PM for the new currency.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-p...ugh-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011

Selco's Balkan War list (partial):

Q: What items should we stockpile?



> Well depends, I quess if you stock only one thing you are not going to survive, unless you want to survive like robber, then you need only gun and lot of ammo. I believe besides ammo food hygiene and energy things (batteries etc.) you need to focus on small things for trade, pocket knives, lighters, flints.
> 
> Also LOT of alcohol, kind that can stay long, i mean stuff like whiskey and that, does not important what kind, you can have cheapest kind, it is very good thing for trade in desperate time. Also lack of hygiene things killed a lot of people, Ive seen that.
> 
> ...





> If i can give some advice: first to prep is a weapon and ammo, then everything else, i mean everything, depends how much money and space you have, if you forget something no problem there is always somebody ready for trade, but if you forget guns and ammo then you may not be able to get to trading places.
> 
> I do not see big family or group of really( i mean really) good friends as more mouth to feed, i see them as more guns and strength, it is in people nature to adapt. Keep it simple and use common sense, in the first period weak people vanished, other fight.
> 
> ...


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

LincTex said:


> http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-p...ugh-shtf-in-the-middle-of-a-war-zone_10252011
> 
> Selco's Balkan War list (partial):
> 
> Q: What items should we stockpile?


If I remember correctly he also said PM's were not the best investment. That the only people interested in PM's were the organized gangs and they were very dangerous to try to deal with.

I personally have nothing against PM's once you are set in the essentials. Look to your immediate (first) then long term security (food, water, weapons, shelter) then start accumulating PM's once those areas are covered.

Stock up on barter goods that are useful to you as well.


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Buying and holding precious metals should not be done as an investment. It should be done to retain a constant value of wealth (value measured in quantity of PM, not dollars).

Anyone who has not yet read Selco's story should do so as soon as possible. It's an eye-opener (for me, anyway) as to what life was like in an urban environment that a short time before could have passed for any normal Westernized city. After reading his story, I immediately went out and bought several thousand paper plates, plastic and paper cups, and lots more garbage bags. 

The OP was asking about money equivalents and is "looking for items other than cash as the dollar can become worthless quickly" presumably as a store of wealth. Granted, _during_ a SHTF scenario, barter items like cigarettes, tampons, booze, condoms and the like will be in much higher demand than silver rounds. But _after_ the SHTF scenario, those things won't be a store of wealth where PMs will be.

I just wanted to clarify.  You absolutely need to have the necessities in place before you worry about buying silver and gold.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> If I remember correctly.... the only people interested in PM's were the organized gangs and they were very dangerous to try to deal with.


Trying to use PM's to trade will be akin to being painted bright fluorescent green! 
Very visible and a good target.



bkt said:


> Granted, _during_ a SHTF scenario, barter items like cigarettes, tampons, booze, condoms and the like will be in much higher demand than silver rounds. But _after_ the SHTF scenario, those things won't be a store of wealth where PMs will be.


Don't forget the "all-essential" corned beef!!



bkt said:


> I just wanted to clarify.  You absolutely need to have the necessities in place before you worry about buying silver and gold.


Absolutely. 
If a person holding their last 20 lbs of food knows it is probably their last... no amount of gold will buy it.


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## mamamouse (Feb 15, 2014)

I bet coffee would be good for barter when SHTF


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

mamamouse said:


> I bet coffee would be good for barter when SHTF


We have both coffee and cigarettes for barter. The cigarettes were free through tobacco company promotions. (We don't smoke.) When in the USMC we used to get cigarettes in our C Rations and the smokers would trade their first-born (almost!) for a smoke.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

The main barterable item I forgot to mention is SALT. It has been used as compensation before and will again become more valuable than gold or silver if we experience TEOTWAWKI.

With few food preservation options available, curing and canning become invaluable.

SALT!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mamamouse said:


> I bet coffee would be good for barter when SHTF


Some folks say the freeze dried stuff lasts and stores the longest.

I have cans of ground coffee that I opened several years after the expiration date that I thought was just fine to drink. It sure *wasn't* starbux, but it was OK.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

LincTex said:


> Some folks say the freeze dried stuff lasts and stores the longest.
> 
> I have cans of ground coffee that I opened several years after the expiration date that I thought was just fine to drink. It sure *wasn't* starbux, but it was OK.


Maxwell House says it's good to the last drop, so I'll take their word for it.. :2thumb:


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

bigg777 said:


> The main barterable item I forgot to mention is SALT. It has been used as compensation before and will again become more valuable than gold or silver if we experience TEOTWAWKI.
> 
> With few food preservation options available, curing and canning become invaluable.
> 
> SALT!


Good point regarding salt.

We've gone more toward dehydrating and away from canning. Eventually you'll run out of good canning lids. You can only store them so long. We use our canning jars for dried food and reuse lids with them.

New lids that have reached the end of their storage life should be boiled longer before using them for canning food. The failure to seal rate is lower that way.

We sometimes reuse regular canning jar lids on things that we'll be eating within a couple of months. The biggest problem with them (assuming that they seal okay initially) is that the seal often breaks lose within a few weeks.

The reusable lids are okay but have a limited life expectancy as well and they're prohibitively expensive.

Very few people have enough jars and lids on hand for long term survival. 300 should be the minimum number for a family of two. We buy lids in case lots and keep about a three year supply in stock. We have at least a thousand canning jars. Our biggest problem is that most are quart size and since the kids have left home it's hard for us to use a quart of anything all in one day. Now we have refrigeration so it isn't critical but if we had no fridge there'd be a lot of waste. (Although we run the fridge on solar power so it should be good for another ten years at least.)


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> The reusable lids are okay but have a limited life expectancy as well and they're prohibitively expensive.
> 
> )


I have Tattler lids that are over 25 years old and are still good. They do cost more but you only have to buy them once. For me the long term makes it worth while. I am careful when I open the jars to not damage the seal but I picked up a few dozen spare seals for the day that they do go bad or that I mess up and damage one.

I still put some up with the regular lids. I like to be able to gift some of my canning and as I have never had a canning jar returned they are not getting my Tattler's.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Our biggest problem is that most are quart size and since the kids have left home it's hard for us to use a quart of anything all in one day. Now we have refrigeration so it isn't critical but if we had no fridge there'd be a lot of waste.


I find mold is a bigger problem with opened goods than bacteria. If I have no fridge, I often will re-heat a meal a couple times during the day to prevent mold. So, sometimes heat works as well as cold. 
I know for a fact this works in third world countries - - have you ever heard of the "perpetual pot of soup"?

If you open a jar in the morning, the meal will still be good to eat later that day with no refrigeration. If you open one late at night, finish it off in the morning. No waste!!


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## Ridgerunner (Oct 27, 2008)

Knowledge an training and skills are the best as they cost almost nothing if you plan ahead and learn. You can use this to trade your skills for needed Items.

Ammo would be good for trade once the supply runs out, I would hold on to it until then and not make it known you have a lot.

If you have fruit trees and have the tools and skills to make jams and jellies or candies they would be very good for trading as they will be hard to find. Think of them as little jars of happiness in a bad time.

This is something that we can do without in a survival mode, but might be very valuable trade item in a extended event.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Ridgerunner said:


> Knowledge an training and skills are the best as they cost almost nothing if you plan ahead and learn. You can use this to trade your skills for needed Items.


Add to this; "Services"

My wife can do hair cutting and bookkeeping as services to others. I'd like to get a small feed operation going; I have the equipment but need to get it all set up and make it work (as well as a small flour mill).


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Caribou said:


> If you are talking about barter then ... ammunition comes to mind.....


I don't know. I have this vision of being shot with the same ammo that I had trade for...


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't think it is possible to find a "money equivalent".

I remain convinced that there is nothing that is foolproof to replace currency in any situation. What works for one situation will not work for another. A government that is bent on robbing its' people will be able to do that, no matter what your hedges, unless you leave the country. 

That said, I think there is benefit to most of the things advocated in this thread. I do think that PM's should come dead last in priority after all other basic needs are met. Even then, PM's may be subject to government confiscation, or revaluation, or being outlawed for individual ownership as they were before in the US. With that history known, I cannot for the life of me see why people are so enthusiastic about owning PM's. 

I would rather own what I personally NEED to live and thrive, water, food, shelter, etc.. If I owned some medium of exchange, whatever kind, I would first have to convert that medium of exchange to whatever turns out to be coin-of-the-realm at that point in time, THEN, and only then, could I buy what I needed. Assuming the needed things were available, of course. Soooo, why not just buy what the heck you need to start with, and eliminate the profits of the middlemen on gold, silver, platinum, bitcoins, or whatever?


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

See, to me money is something you trade for something else. Hence the junk yard thinking because I can trade a bunch of the things that I have for other things.... just like money. Some things are going to be of more value than gold in the long run.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

machinist said:


> I don't think it is possible to find a "money equivalent".
> 
> I remain convinced that there is nothing that is foolproof to replace currency in any situation. What works for one situation will not work for another. A government that is bent on robbing its' people will be able to do that, no matter what your hedges, unless you leave the country.
> 
> ...


I can answer that, from my perspective. I started prepping and stocked up a week, month then finally a year's worth of sustenance. I have a shovel, and a backup, an axe, and a backup, a bow saw, and a backup with many blades... I have a place to live, garden, way to preserve what I produce, extra salt, sugar...

I also have a 401 with money in it, as a backup. I buy and stock PM's, as a backup. I have cash in the house, as a backup.

My goal was to have, on hand, enough supplies to keep me alive for a year, depending on what scenario happens of course. I also have supplies to keep me alive if none of my planned scenario's happens.

I do agree that basic survival needs need to be met before storing or investing in something that will not directly keep you alive. But as with any preparation, you need to have options available. After your basic needs are prepared for what do you do from there? Say I have $100 in the bank, sitting there, that is not needed for basic requirements. I can continue to let it sit there, getting no interest and losing 'value' due to inflation, or I can do something with it. I can do several things with it.

I can put it into a 401 (or similar) and hope it is not stolen or devalued to the point of being worthless. It might increase or decrease in value. If I lose this, at least it was not my only option.

I can buy more supplies, which might get blown away from a storm or stolen, or become invaluable in the future. If I lose these at least they were not my only option

I can buy PM's which may increase or decrease in value, be stolen or confiscated. If I lose these... Well.. Someone would have to find where I buried them first, but at least they were not my only option.

I know I am never going to be able to support myself independently, as in self sustaining for any length of time. For some of us; age, health, location... it isn't going to happen so why waste 'money' trying to go that direction.

Besides, for some of us, there is just something about fondling stacks of silver dollars that brings us joy. "Cratchet! put that lump of coal back in the bucket! You have too large a fire going already!!!" mmMMMUAHHHHAAAAA....


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Well, I knew it would not be popular here to question the wisdom of owning PM's. I fact, I DO own some silver. Wish I had sold it when it $49, but, wish in one hand and .....

I see PM's as a gamble, or speculation like a stock trade, where you hope it will go up in price after you buy it. In the case of most people here, it is a hedge against inflation, and/or, insurance against a currency collapse. 

Take a look at what I did. I paid $5,800 for half a bag ($500 face value) of junk silver when spot price was $13/oz. I could sell it now for about $6,900 with spot around $19.40. That doesn't proportion out worth a darn, because of the dealer profits on both buying and selling. Did I "make" any money if I sold now? 

Not much. I am $1,100 ahead on PRICE, but I bought it in mid-2009, so after almost 5 years I have earned an average return of $220/year, or 3.8% a year on it. Not what I would call stellar performance for an investment. But maybe I'll get lucky and catch another upswing and have sense enough to dump it this time.

What if I had bought things like a Mig welder for my shop instead? In fact, I did buy a small Mig welder and paid about $500 for it near the same time I bought silver. Now, that same welder costs $950. Do the math. You can have all the PM's.

Oh, yeah. I can make a couple phone calls and be welding at $35 to $40 an hour any time I want. That is a fact, where most of the talk about PM's tends to be pretty theoretical, since the results aren't in yet.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

machinist said:


> Well, I knew it would not be popular here to question the wisdom of owning PM's. I fact, I DO own some silver. Wish I had sold it when it $49, but, wish in one hand and .....
> 
> I see PM's as a gamble, or speculation like a stock trade, where you hope it will go up in price after you buy it.


Actually I have no problem with your disinterest in PM's, they are not for everyone. If you plan is to buy low and sell high then get into it as a full time business. You are right the commission will eat you up.

I don't ever expect to make anything from PM's. An ounce of gold will only ever be worth an ounce of gold. Inflation means that I can buy fewer ounces of gold with the cash on hand. It also means that I can buy fewer pounds of rice, beans, or sugar. Don't buy PM's if you need food or tools or to make a house payment.

For me PM's are a way to preserve assets, a hedge. I believe in diversification.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Jack of all trades.......*

The equivalent of money in a major event would be something that you can do with your hands, repairing things comes to mind, making things, history would tell you that the baker and butcher rule the town, knowing how to preserved food as well as having the means to do it will come handy, before money there was salt, roman soldiers were pay with it; so salt, sugar, honey, vinegar (mother of vinegar),baking soda, in my opinion would be better than gold after all you can`t digest metal, and this somewhat cheap and long lasting items will be of beneficial value in a barter environment .During the great depression the poor farmer who had a small plot of land was able to feed his family and sold the rest to make it, having the means to reload ammo would come handy too .I guess what we all know here is that the better prepared you are the better you will be, it all comes down to been a jack of all trades.:2thumb:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Food will be the biggest item in demand. Food will become the new money. Cans of Campbells Soup or Dinty Moore Stew would be good barter items.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

For any money left after providing basic needs, I prefer to invest in something productive. That could be many things, depending on your abilities and situation. A farmer could add to his livestock herds, a business person could FIRST reduce debt to zero then add to stock-in-trade. Whatever, I see it as preferable to have assets making money.


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## Sgili (Jul 26, 2016)

1. Moonshine/Wine
2. Tobacco (I do not smoke but I do grow my own)
3. Coffee/Coffee Beans
4. Salt

Many items can be added to a long list for bartering and trade. However, the 4 I mention are the most likely to be the best trading items. Anything and everything will be considered items for trade so whatever you have lying around will come up at some point being either something to keep or trade for something you need.


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