# An Englishmans perspective



## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Preparedness- an Englishmans perspective.

Well this is my first real post, I joined this site a while back after doing some googling after reading 'One second after'

A little of my history.

I grew up in a largish town in the South of England, then moved to a smaller town.
Shortly after this I joined the Army, firstly as an infanteer, (pioneers) then moved into the comms world and now I am a weapons engineer (sounds better than armourers, armourers just store the weapons in a few armies)

I married fairly late for a soldier, 30, I married smart though, she is a combat med tech.
We have a 5 year old son, and another inbound.

I read the 'survivalist' books as a teen, and recently re-read some I found on ebay, always had a simmering interest I guess.

So, my perspective on Prepping in the Uk.

From what I have seen and heard, most people in the towns and cities are oblivious to what lies ahead.
A straw poll of the people I work with (civilian & soldiers) shows a disparity between the generations, we have an older guy(early60's) two of us in our mid 30's and a handful of under 30's. All with families.

The question I asked was, how long could you & yours survive without outside help (shops etc)

The older guy reckons 3 months, assuming that power stayed on for his freezer.

I can do 3 months, regardless of power, the other guy in my bracket reckons a month.
All the younger guys think one- two weeks, max.

One thing i have noticed over the past few winters is the average level of planning.
The first winter we had that was harsh, the shops were cleaned out very rapidly, the next year the same happened. It was only the third year that it still happened, but at a slower rate.

Our supermarkets work the same as probably everywhere, on the Just in Time theory, so when the trucks don't get through? Hence the panic buying whenever the weather gets bad.
Our rural areas tend to fare better, they are used to the idea of supply going down so they plan accordingly, and their idea of panic buying is to maybe grab an extra few pints of milk!

I myself am starting to get the idea, I now buy rice & pasta in bulk, I buy tins on special offer and get extra when I can. 
I have the ability to cook without electricity, and have a large cool box to hopefully make meat last longer if power goes down. We have no BOL as such, so would be bugging in, I work 12 miles away from home, so I could easily get home on foot in about 3 hrs if needs be, quicker if i can use my mountain bike. (assuming no vehicle movement).

All of this is just a stop gap however.
I am due to finish my time in the Army in June 2016. After 22 yrs serving my country, my family and I will be leaving. The plan at the moment is to emigrate to Canada, as I should be able to get a visa there on the strength of my qualifications, as opposed to needing a large sum of money in the bank to get a visa for the USA. Which is a shame, as the US would be first choice, preferably the Montana area.

The money I will have should be sufficient to buy some land (hoping to do that in 2014) and build the house we want, and then have enough acreage to go around 80-90% self sufficient.

Training has begun already, planted some potatoes as a start this year, just harvested them, admittedly I only got a couple of pounds, but the containers are only around 1ft dia and about 2 ft tall!
Next year its the turn of some raised beds, with hopefully something resembling the square foot gardening idea

So these are just my rambling thoughts.
Any feedback would be great


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

If you like the Montana area, you would be pleased with the area of Crowsnest-Pass in Alberta / BC. On the Alberta side of the border, the cost-of-living is lower (less taxes) - the BC side of the border has more places to get lost in the woods (fewer people / sq km) and great fishing if you are into that ... 

Welcome to the board.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Thanks for the interesting post! Keep us posted on your progress.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Wow! You sound like you really have a plan! Good job!

The idea of leaving your country is a strange one to me. I am a US citizen and it would take some extreme circumstances for me to want to leave my country. It seems especially strange to me considering you served your country for 22 years. I am curious about your general thought process. Are you leaving simply because it is all but impossible to own land in the UK these days? Is it simply for the advantages afforded you since you are going to live a prepping lifestyle? I could understand that for sure. Please understand I am not implying anything by your moving but it is a strange concept for me -- it seems for folks in Europe they move around from country to country like we in the US might move from state to state (which is a little more similar than it seems I suppose).


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I used to live in Montana, I do not think you would feel very welcome there.


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Hi gents, thanks for your thoughts.

To explain the reasons a little clearer,
During my career so far I spent time in different places.
First few years, in the UK, with tours of Bosnia & N.Ireland, then. 18mth in N.Ireland, followed by 2 yrs in UK with a tour of Kosovo, then out to Germany for 10 years with tours of Iraq. Last year I came back to the UK and tbh, its no longer the Country I joined to serve.

During my time I have spent a few months in Canada (Alberta) as has the wife.
While there we both fell in love with the attitude of Canadians and with the sheer space of the country. I proposed to my wife in Calgary, and we agreed that Canada was the place for us.
During my career I have worked with, for, and alongside US forces personnel.
During this time the one thing that stands out in my mind is the positive, can do, will do attitude that seems to have gone missing from my own countrymen.

Another (big) aspect is financial. We took the decision, rightly or wrongly, to not buy property, instead we have nice cars, nice things etc.
This, in retrospect was a mistake. Its not one that we can rectify straight away, however once we leave the Army, all debts will be paid, we will have a lump sum of cash to start out fresh. Probably around the 90-100k USD equiv.
Now in the UK if I wanted to live in a terraced house, in a rough area with lower standard schools for my children then that would probably finance around 80% of a house.
With a little planning, buying land and self building (probably the LHBA way) we could be mortgage free in around a year. That means that I could bring up my children in a good environment, with not having to hunt around for a high paying job (my pension will be around £650 pcm) 

That is just not possible on my overcrowded lil island. Land is available to buy, I can get a 3 acre patch of woodland for around 28k UK, only problem, cant build on it, cant harvest the lumbar, in fact cant even spend more than 28 nights per year overnight on it.

So, I can stay here, in a country I dont even regard as my own, and just exist, or I can emigrate, and live a life.
All my career I have lived either in barracks, tents or on small estates.
One day I will find space to breathe!

Incidentally, linctex, why would I not be welcome in Montana? Seemed pretty friendly when I passed through


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

UKarmr said:


> Hi gents, thanks for your thoughts.
> 
> To explain the reasons a little clearer,
> During my career so far I spent time in different places.
> ...


UKarmr, I didnt want to be presumptive but I suspected as much. I am saddened by the current state and direction of our once great ally in the UK. I wish all the best to you and thank you for the kind words toward our own great soldiers in the US. I pray we (the US) do not continue down the road we are on which is the same path the UK has been on for quite a while. Although I have never been to Montana I would disagree with Linctex about you being welcomed there -- folks from Montana as well as most others are VERY accepting of and friendly to foriegners as long as you are lawful and respectful. If you get a chance come on down to Arizona and check out what we have here. This is a very freedom loving state in which you can even carry a consealed weapon without a permit! You just might be the type to enjoy that one!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think you have a good plan. You need to watch the economic conditions around the time you move. You may need to buy a year's worth of supplies as soon as you get here. Or we may see a collapse sooner than that. I think the collapse of the dollar as the world's reserve currency will be a disaster here but not necessarily over there. We will most likely see hyperinflation a lot sooner here than where you are.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

UKarmr said:


> Incidentally, Linctex, why would I not be welcome in Montana? Seemed pretty friendly when I passed through


As long as they know you are "passing through" and not staying. Start talking about buying a place and watch them get ugly towards you. They don't care much for "out-of-staters" buying up their land and developing it.


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Linc, i could understand that if I was a developer, but just buying a small parcel, getting involved in the local community, surely thats a good thing?


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

You can always come on over to Michigan! But Gypsy Sue lives in Montana.. we should ask her about how friendly folks there are.


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Its all relative, the USA seems unachievable, at least Canada I could get a visa!


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

Take the ownership of firearms into account too. Gun ownership in Canada is a bit more difficult than US. Self defense, hunting, etc.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

The reason is: people in Montana love it for what it is: spacious, open, peaceful - - but the more people move there, it becomes less. I haven't been there in 15 years, but last time I lived there if you moved there from out of state they hated you. As more people moved in, property values rose sky high and drove everryone's property taxes up. People who lived in the same place had to sell and move because they property taxes tripled over several years.

This is only in the "scenic" mountain areas. You can move to Eastern Montana and buy as much land as you want for US$200 and acre. It is a great area to be if you want to be left alone.


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## neil-v1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I like the state of Maine. Plenty of space and great people. We are now getting our affairs in order and plan to move about 60 miles west of Bangor. Maine is a great state.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Welcome, UKarmr, please keep us advised of your plans. I pray things work out for you and your family.


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## UKarmr (Jul 25, 2011)

Partdeaux- firearms ownership is a plus, but even canadas rules are better thman my current situation, it took me 5 months and a police interview before I got a shotgun license, limited to max 3 shots if semi or pump.

Like I said America would be very good, but I would need sponsering by a company, and thats not gonna happen! Or a lot of cash (I believe its around 500k)
Canada, as long as I meet the points criteria (whch I do) and can provide evidence of money to support my family for 1 yr ( currently 12k per adult) then I stand a reamsonable chance.

I will keep you guys informed, and bounce ideas around.
Next step is to sort some raised beds, all good practise!


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

UKarmr said:


> Partdeaux- firearms ownership is a plus, but even canadas rules are better thman my current situation, it took me 5 months and a police interview before I got a shotgun license, limited to max 3 shots if semi or pump.
> 
> Like I said America would be very good, but I would need sponsering by a company, and thats not gonna happen! Or a lot of cash (I believe its around 500k)
> Canada, as long as I meet the points criteria (whch I do) and can provide evidence of money to support my family for 1 yr ( currently 12k per adult) then I stand a reasonable chance.
> ...


I'm glad to see that you and yours made it thru the last riot there in London.. My daughter has family in London and two of them are police so we were acutely aware of the dangers that people were in. I don't blame you for wanting to find a safer place to go.. I wish we could talk them into moving to Canada.. Then she could at least visit them..


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

You can move to Canada and set up close to the US border... there are tons of places to cross between Canada and Montana or North Dakota with no hassle at all.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

LincTex said:


> You can move to Canada and set up close to the US border... there are tons of places to cross between Canada and Montana or North Dakota with no hassle at all.


Folks do that where I live (Arizona) and never cross back... perhaps he could do that!

Seriously UKarmr, I do hope you get the required stuff in order to at least move your family to Canada. Best wishes!


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

UKarmr said:


> Its all relative, the USA seems unachievable, at least Canada I could get a visa!


 Both canada and america are basically now police states.But I'd still choose canda if you can get far enough out .Except it will be very hard to survive the weather in both monatan and canada if i were younger I'd choose canada because of the large wildermess areas. 
I don't think you have till 2016 though to make plans,maybe a year at best,imo.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Linx ,If he*



LincTex said:


> You can move to Canada and set up close to the US border... there are tons of places to cross between Canada and Montana or North Dakota with no hassle at all.


If he survived being stationed in Northern Ireland , he can definately handle a few narrowminded idiots in Montana !

An advance welcome to the colonies mate ! :beercheer:


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

LincTex said:


> You can move to Canada and set up close to the US border... there are tons of places to cross between Canada and Montana or North Dakota with no hassle at all.


 Or just do like the majority of immigrunts do,just walk across the border,apply for welfare,put both of your kids on medicare as ADD or disabled collect SSD for them for life,all medical is free for you and yours,all food and education is yours for the taking. No license,no insurence no problem.Steal lots of id's and Social Securty numbers and collect off them too.Your not subject to our laws,get out of jail free.Soon as you set up be sure and send for the rest of your family.
Any problems with anyone,jus call your local ACLU or a catholic church.Also many evangelicles now are also suppling the trojan horse with weapons to use against our sovereignty.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Ukarmr, it is a shame our immigration requirements are the way they are, not letting the likes of you come in simply because of money, then we have all of these people from Mexico here illegally and they are a total drain to our social service system, something we do not allow from people who came here legally...go figure the beauracracy that allows all of this, but makes it so hard for you to come here.

Canada is great, underpopulated per square mile just over the border and very beautiful.

You are smart to get out of Europe, which in the standards of someone trying to live a prepped life, would be, in most of our minds, seemingly impossible to do there. You need space and resources, both of which are lacking there, or government controlled in ways they are not here or in Canada.

Wish you all the best of luck in your big move across the pond. Hope it all goes really well and you will be able to accomplish living independently and away from the troubles we all see coming.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> Ukarmr, it is a shame our immigration requirements are the way they are, not letting the likes of you come in simply because of money, then we have all of these people from Mexico here illegally and they are a total drain to our social service system, something we do not allow from people who came here legally...go figure the beauracracy that allows all of this, but makes it so hard for you to come here.
> 
> Canada is great, underpopulated per square mile just over the border and very beautiful.
> 
> ...


 Not just mexico,maybe he could do a reverse Michael Jackson and come in through Somalia or a middle eastern radical nation is welcoem here too.
All sarcasm off now.
I think canada is best because theres plenty of wildlife there and fewer people to kill over it. I can imagine the rivers,oceans and lakes here wtshtf .Madmax hunters in the woods and all being chased by PETA and tree huggers.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Meerkat said:


> Not just mexico,maybe he could do a reverse Michael Jackson and come in through Somalia or a middle eastern radical nation is welcoem here too.
> All sarcasm off now.
> I think canada is best because theres plenty of wildlife there and fewer people to kill over it. I can imagine the rivers,oceans and lakes here wtshtf .Madmax hunters in the woods and all being chased by PETA and tree huggers.


Hehe, I laughed when you said that... imagined myself being chased through the woods by those models that strip naked for PETA... woops got caught.

Anyway, those folks will go extinct in short order if the SHTF madmax style believe me!


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

TheAnt said:


> Hehe, I laughed when you said that... imagined myself being chased through the woods by those models that strip naked for PETA... woops got caught.
> 
> Anyway, those folks will go extinct in short order if the SHTF madmax style believe me!


 LOL,I'm telling your wife,but that was funny.
Yep soon as the belly growls all bets off with the PETAs,and the tree huggers will be hacking up the forest like nobodies bizwax.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

LincTex said:


> The reason is: people in Montana love it for what it is: spacious, open, peaceful - - but the more people move there, it becomes less. I haven't been there in 15 years, but last time I lived there if you moved there from out of state they hated you. As more people moved in, property values rose sky high and drove everryone's property taxes up. People who lived in the same place had to sell and move because they property taxes tripled over several years.
> 
> This is only in the "scenic" mountain areas. You can move to Eastern Montana and buy as much land as you want for US$200 and acre. It is a great area to be if you want to be left alone.


I just now started to read this thread and I was going to wait until I read all three pages, but I'm just itching to comment.

No, we Montanans don't hate people who move here from out-of-state. We don't have the attitude that people are taking up space and crowding our state. We're still under a million people in a state bigger than many eastern states combined.

Land isn't $200 an acre anywhere in Montana, not even in the eastern prairie part of the state. In fact, eastern Montana (and western North Dakota) are the new "Texas", the oil boom area. It's booming like a gold rush. Land is skyrocketing even more than it is here in the beautiful forested mountains of western Montana where I, fortunately, live.

It's the attitudes people have that can make you welcome or not welcome. Mostly what we've been getting in the last several years is either the ones who want to change this place to be like the place they left (ooh, hunting is evil, fishing is evil, logging is evil, lets' worship the grizzly bears and wolves as long as the government keeps them out of MY backyard, we must teach sex-ed and gay lifestyle starting in kindergarden, which is true, they got that one passed) and the survivialist/jameswesleyrawleswannabe's who come here like a wild cowboy and run around the place asking everyone to teach them how to be a survivialist. Sigh.

Used to be the "wilderness family" back-to-the-land types that came here.

UK, if you came here with the attitude of assimilating into U.S. and Montana culture (no, we don't all wear cowboy hats!), you'd be warmly welcomed. As a citizen of the UK it would be easier for you to move to Canada, though. If you get to Alberta or British Columbia, you can hop across the border and visit. I can almost see Canada from my roof!

So, linc, unless you have a lot of contact with a cross-section of people in Montana, something more current than 15-years ago, please don't tell people what Montana is like and how we treat people, whether they're visiting or wanting to stay. However I do agree with you that Arizona has a lot to offer. It's a great place.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

BillM said:


> If he survived being stationed in Northern Ireland , he can definately handle a few narrowminded idiots in Montana !


Gasp!  Quick, where's the fainting smiley icon?

lol Okay, I'm sure we have a few of those in Montana! Gotta be one (or more) in every crowd!

That's okay, keep spreading this stuff so Montana gets a reputation as being unfriendly and unwelcoming. I guess that'll keep out those who don't think they're good enough for us to accept them and welcome them! 

UK, PM me and we'll keep it a secret if you move here! 


Gosh, someone go back through the threads and see how many times I've tried to convince people on the forum to move to Montana? Offered to help people find good deals on property with my inside, local information? Offered other help in moving here? Told people there were even places for sale right here in my neighborhood, which is a private dirt road with neighbors half a mile apart or more, nearly all are preppers.

The place across the road from us was for sale for 3 years, one of the best deals in the area. It finally sold a few weeks ago... to a young family from Calgary, Alberta who are, incidently, preppers! Cool!

UK, whever you end up, good luck! I like your way of thinking and planning.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

UKarmr, I really appreciate your perspective. Our country is going down the same path - I know exactly what you mean about feeling like your country isn't your country anymore. I certainly wish you well on your endeavors - sounds like you've really done a lot of searching and have a good plan. I pray you'll be able to put that plan into effect before the SHTF.

As for Montana, I totally get what GypsySue is saying. I used to live in Colorado Springs, and it was similar there. We had this massive influx of people (I was in real estate - we serviced a lot of CA corporations that were relocating their headquarters). Tons of Californians moved in, but they didn't want to become Coloradans, they just wanted to be transplanted Californians. They had a lot of money to spend on homes because they were used to CA home prices - they could get a lot more house for the buck in ColoSprings. They brought their city life with them, and built houses up into the mountains, then cried when they had problems with bears. They wanted to move and make the place just like the place they'd left. That didn't go over well.

It's not where the people were from that's the issue - it's the attitude they brought with them. 

If I'm not mistaken, Montana has experienced something similar in certain parts of the state. Maybe that's what Linc saw, I don't know. But I can say this: I am an out-of-state landowner in MT, and I've never been treated better. (and no, I'm not just saying that for the sake of this thread) The only reason we're not in MT is due to my DH's job - we would LOVE to be there! Our land is in the central prairie (and I only WISH it had cost $200/ac ha!) and we feel so blessed for the people we've met and the great experiences we've had with our MT neighbors. People really look out for each other. It's the way things should be. 

That said, if I were moving to Canada, I'd go for Alberta.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

goshengirl said:


> Tons of Californians moved in, but they didn't want to become Coloradans, they just wanted to be transplanted Californians. .... If I'm not mistaken, Montana has experienced something similar in certain parts of the state. Maybe that's what Linc saw.


BINGO!!
Every word you said. 
Being from the UK would help, actually... as long as you are not from KALIFORNIA things should be fine!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Most of the people from California are like you (linc and goshen) say, but there are some exceptional exceptions. While we have gotten quite a few from California we've gotten more from Washington and Oregon, who moved from those places because Californians moved up there and drove up prices and changed the atmosphere.

Linc, 15 years is too long since you visited Montana! Come up some time! PM us if you do, we'll all get together! Maybe goshen will be here too! Another forum member (who is relatively quiet on the board) recently moved to central Montana from "back east", and we're excited about that! Can't wait to meet!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

I lived in Polson - it grew too fast in the late 90's and really made a lot of local folks upset. It is very beautiful there and attracts folks with a lot of money in from all over. I have family in Kalispell I haven't visited in years.... it's tough to travel with expenses, time, and kids. I would love very much, though. If I ever get that way I'll let you know 

I knew there was a lot of oil exploration in western North Dakota, but I hadn't heard about anyone trying for oil in eastern Montana. I can remember when you could still buy land between Lewistown and Glendive for $200 an acre. i'll bet there are still places in North Dakota in that price range.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Survivalcauter said:


> Canada along with Britain and the USA , is a police state. But Canada, Canuckistan, is the worst police state of all. There is no free speech there and all whites are under constant surveillance as second class citizens.
> 
> The Mounties have been caught placing various US internet sites under surveillance.
> I would like to introduce much evidence backing up what I say.
> ...


Your arguments would be much better if you included the evidence and left out the over-used terms and labels. Im not disagreeing with you but I dont see the evidence either. Enlighten us.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

Survivalcauter said:


> Ant
> In response to your challenge, I immediately started amassing my evidence, then I stopped. My mind brought up some points. Isn't it a good idea if the most ignorant believe that Canada is a benevolent state with freedom? Maybe such candidates will move there, like the draft dodgers of the Vietnam War? Shouldn't anyone who has been too lazy to look up Canada's violent suppression of free speech on the internet, for example, be doomed to eternal ignorance and serfdom?
> I never quail from a fight, as my posted article on Nonviolent Survivor Organizing should verify. I am sometimes too daring (I even put up posts sometimes without a Spell check)
> But response to unbelievable ignorance is low on my priority. Keeping that in mind and understand this, I will submit such evidence to you Ant, taking my own sweet time. But if you look it up before I do, I hope you save me the trouble.
> ...


You teased me that there was some evidence... I was only asking for it. Next time I consider moving to Canada Ill have to look it up. If anyone else here that is considering to move to Canada finds said evidence please post it for the benefit of the rest of us who may consider following in your footsteps. Thanks!


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

> They brought their city life with them, and built houses up into the mountains, then cried when they had problems with bears.


Goshengirl...similar problem here, except it was building their homes on hillsides, then clearing the property for the views, and when first major winter storm rains rolled in, their house would slide down the hill and they'd have fits with the county for not telling them it would happen...Let's see, the Pacific Northwest known for it's rain, one would have the think there is a reason we have lots of trees and brush growing here, it absorbs all the moisture so our hillsides stay put!!!DUH

We can also tell them by the way they drive when we get a downpour, like slugs, they freak out over it, snow or ice, forget it, it is just us Oregonians out when this happens.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Just a gentle reminder of the new sticky folks.
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/announcement-politics-religion-technical-threads.html


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Thanks, Emerald! Maybe they can find gentle ways to call each other names!  Seriously, the attacks on each other and name-calling is taking away from our purpose here on this forum. Disagreeing isn't the problem, it's the way it's being done that is the problem.

I think the people who live in Canada should speak for Canada, not people in another country who are reading internet stuff for their information, no offense intended. 

I felt the same way when I saw Montana misrepresented by statements made by someone who hasn't been to Montana in 15 years. Besides, no one should take something said by one person as the whole, factual truth about any area or government, including what I had to say about Montana in my previous posts. It's merely what I see and hear from my frame of reference as a Montana citizen. It would be the same for a Canadian or person from any place else.

Linc, your relatives are within an hour's drive of our place. Hope you make it up here some day. I know what you mean about travel expenses, and even the time it takes to travel, so I understand why it's been a while!


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## oldvet (Jun 29, 2010)

Survivalcauter said:


> Is this your idea of "Fighting the man since I was but a wee larva" ?
> 
> Yes, I think it is. Speaking in accusatory rhetoric, backed up by a vague "in the public good" bull crap, but you never doing any work, or providing any evidence.
> 
> ...


I said this in another post, but I think I need to repeat it. I was in another forum for a while until the name calling, cussing, and mud slinging started and wouldn't stop.

I read the Ant's post to you and I didn't see any disrespect aimed at you. He just asked for some proof as to your statements.

I don't believe he deserved your reply.

This is a fantastic forum and I would really hate to see it degenerate into a name calling, mud slinging site.

In other words lighten up we are not your enemy.


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## dirtgrrl (Jun 5, 2011)

*thank you oldvet*

I feel the same. If I want to be called names there are plenty of other places to go. Fortunately, all my interactions on this site have been positive, even from those who know "who" I am.


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## Graebarde (Aug 30, 2011)

LincTex said:


> I knew there was a lot of oil exploration in western North Dakota, but I hadn't heard about anyone trying for oil in eastern Montana. I can remember when you could still buy land between Lewistown and Glendive for $200 an acre. i'll bet there are still places in North Dakota in that price range.


I think you'd probably loose that bet on finding $200/a land in NoDak, unless someone just HAD to get rid of it and it was being flooded by the lake or something. I wish that were so though, because, harsh winters or not, I would drift back home.

As for the oil boom.. they claim there is more oil in the Williston basin than all the Saudi's have. And I wouldn't doubt it. FB


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## Graebarde (Aug 30, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> I felt the same way when I saw Montana misrepresented by statements made by someone who hasn't been to Montana in 15 years.


Heeeeeeeee.. NoDak makes comments all the time about our western neighbors all the time.. (in jest however as it is reciprocal.) FB


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## Graebarde (Aug 30, 2011)

*thank you old vet.*

I totally agree, the name calling and mudslinging.. it's what ruins things for everyone.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Graebarde said:


> Heeeeeeeee.. NoDak makes comments all the time about our western neighbors all the time.. (in jest however as it is reciprocal.) FB


Yeah, we jest about our surrounding states and Canadian provinces all the time! My favorite is the alleged sign on Montana's eastern border as you enter North Dakota:

"Welcome to North Dakota. Mountain removal project completed!"

The oil boom in western North Dakota has spilled over into eastern Montana where they're doing test drilling. It looks promising. They also know there are large oil reservers under the east slope of the rockies (west of Great Falls and Helena) but the environmentalists have tied up any chance of drilling there.

Wonder why the North Dakota-Montana border area is expendable and the environmentalists didn't have a fit when they started drilling over there? Must be some rare partridge or something getting it's habitat screwed up for them!


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## rextex (Sep 14, 2011)

Excellent post, thanks much!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> Wonder why the North Dakota-Montana border area is expendable and the environmentalists didn't have a fit when they started drilling over there?


Nothing there but sagebrush, antelope and jackrabbits. If you have ever driven through from Lewistown to Glendive you would see for yourself.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

And I apologize for offending anyone about Montanans not liking out-of-staters


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

LincTex said:


> Nothing there but sagebrush, antelope and jackrabbits. If you have ever driven through from Lewistown to Glendive you would see for yourself.


Trophy-sized mule deer and a billion Hungarian Partridges, too! 

We used to live in Lewistown. Have friends in Chester (west of Havre), and have driven back and forth repeatedly across the state (and North Dakota) to get to Wisconsin to visit my family. It's open country, that's for sure. At first after leaving these forested mountains I feel very exposed!

But then I get used to it and love the wild, open spaces, the feeling of freedom it imparts, and I love all the marshes and coulees (basically narrow valleys where water runs off into streams), I love how the trees tend to grow only along rivers and creeks and you can see them snaking across the prairie miles away. I love the ever-changing sky, and how you can see bands of rain pass miles away, and the beautiful sunsets. When you head west from Shelby you start seeing shadows on the horizon and at first you're wondering if they're clouds, and then you realize they're the rocky mountains, jutting abruptly up from the prairie to the high peaks of Glacier National Park. It's amazing.

If you can't move to Montana, it's still worth putting on your bucket list of future vacations! But then, I could say the same about most states. I love roaming this beautiful country of ours. Hency my name "GYPSY Sue",the wanderer!


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree with you Gypsy Sue. America is a beautiful country. Don't understand why people can't wait to travel overseas when they haven't seen what our country has to offer. Each state has it's own treasure and many states more than one. Yes, I've been overseas and there is no place like home. I have also been to 48 of our 50 states can't wait to visit the other 2, Washington and Alaska.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

*I have to jump in here*



LincTex said:


> As long as they know you are "passing through" and not staying. Start talking about buying a place and watch them get ugly towards you. They don't care much for "out-of-staters" buying up their land and developing it.


*To a point LincTex is right about not just Montana but most any place in the NW.... In Montana the locals have a bad attitude about outsiders coming in and buying up ranches and then closing long standing access thru the ranch to Public lands...such as Ted Turner does.. there is a vast amount of Public land in MT. and it's open to use by all..but a very few Jerks from elsewhere buy land and close it to all but their outsider friends or lease all hunting rights to outfitters which in effect makes it a private hunting club for the rich...can they do it? sure.. is it their right? yes it is.. is it the right thing to do ? ..I can't say because it's not my land.. but it causes hard feelings against the "Outsiders" ... Also developers buy ranches and subdivide them into small 5 and 10 acres plots that often turn into dumps filled with trailers...

As for the OP.. I say welcome.. you have a good attitude and would be welcome.. and after 40 years in MT I believe I can say that..

I now divide my time between MT and TX.. getting older makes the winters in MT not so much fun...if they ever were..

But I remember all the high country horse camps after Elk... never killed a lot of Elk but sure loved the time spent up there...I found sitting around the fire with a pot of strong coffee to be just as much fun as slogging thru 3 foot of snow leading a pissed off horse who thought dragging a dead Elk was not in his contract...

I only hope for your sake that it all holds together until you can get out..might get your passports in order and pack some BOB's just in case...be ready to hittheair port running , I served my country too but I would never leave my family to face the SHTF while I was off protecting others... just me..

Anyway..Welcome to the forum !! *


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Thanks, Emerald! Maybe they can find gentle ways to call each other names!  Seriously, the attacks on each other and name-calling is taking away from our purpose here on this forum. Disagreeing isn't the problem, it's the way it's being done that is the problem.
> 
> I think the people who live in Canada should speak for Canada, not people in another country who are reading internet stuff for their information, no offense intended.
> 
> ...


GS !! who you chitin??? sure as the crow fly's it's an hour away but for poor wingless humans..lets see .. two hours by car, then another 2 hours in 4x4 truck..then 5 hours by mule ... then 2 days on foot after the mule dies of exhaustion ... then just down the Mountain , cross the river 
( between ice chunks ) and across the valley....and your there !! :congrat::beercheer: ...

OH watch out got the Grizzly's.....


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

oldvet said:


> I said this in another post, but I think I need to repeat it. I was in another forum for a while until the name calling, cussing, and mud slinging started and wouldn't stop.
> 
> I read the Ant's post to you and I didn't see any disrespect aimed at you. He just asked for some proof as to your statements.
> 
> ...


I AM...


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Yeah, we jest about our surrounding states and Canadian provinces all the time! My favorite is the alleged sign on Montana's eastern border as you enter North Dakota:
> 
> "Welcome to North Dakota. Mountain removal project completed!"
> 
> ...


3 guys walking across the desert..

Montanan, Texan, North Dakotan..

Texan was carrying a bag of apples.. the Montanan asked what they were for..the Texan said well if I get thirsty I can eat an apple and get moisture as well as sugar for energy and the pulp for filling my belly..

The Texan then looked at the Montanan and I expect your bag of oranges is for the same reason? the Montanan replied yes just like you said...

They walked a while further and finely the Montanan could take it no longer and stopped walking looked at the North Dakotan and said... why are you carrying that car door???

The NODAK said with a smirk...Well DUH! when it gets hot I can roll the window down!...:lolsmash::lolsmash:


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

:lolsmash: Hozay, you're too funny! Roll the window down... :lolsmash:

And you're right...it's takes a bit longer to get to our place. The last 3 miles are a 2-track goat trail, and it takes about 20 to 25 minutes to drive that 3 miles. Picture THAT! lol

From the pavement it's a little over an hour to Kalispell.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

Back to the original post, I think the climate in southern Canada would be very familiar to a Brit. Keep practicing your gardening, then when you get to Canada, you'll be up to speed. :flower:


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Clarice....do visit Washington state. I live in Oregon, and cannot imagine living anywhere else, except central Washington state...

The area I am enamored with is the Wenatchee Valley. We just got home from spending almost a week up there, and yet that was not enough time for me. The scenery is dramatic and so varied within a 20 mile radius, suprisingly so. Alipne region where the town of Leavenworth has banked on it's location and made their town into a Bavarian Village, the orchard towns down river from there, all unique and sweet, down into Wenatchee proper, where the massive mountains lay bare of trees covered in just grasses. Then go up the Columbia River to Lake Chelan....

This region is full of apple orchards, it is their industry, but am sure they do not mind visitors too. Look it up, there us so much to see.


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## Graebarde (Aug 30, 2011)

HozayBuck said:


> 3 guys walking across the desert..
> 
> Montanan, Texan, North Dakotan..
> 
> ...


Yah.. you betcha.. dat's one smart Norskie der.. ROTFL..


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

To get back to the origonal post, and some of the replies . 
Alberta is not a frozen waste land, we have a short growing season and cold winters, that keeps the population down. 
Gun ownership is not as restrictive as some would have you believe. 
Eastern Canada is a whole different world so if you have experienced ontario east you will have a whole different perspective.
UKarmr it you chose to get a work visa to come to Canada MAKE sure that the job you use to get here will last for the required term, because for the most part that will be the only employer that you can work for. 
And you allready know this but our inland climate is NOT the same as you are used to , but if you want that or at least a similar climate the "north coast of BC still provieds for that and land can be cheap there if you don't need steady empolyment.


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