# In search of close neighbors to form group



## gunny (Sep 24, 2010)

As a Nam Vet, I know what combat is. Your enemy has one thing in mind and we all know what that is. I live in a city with a majority of immigrants. A lot of the older citizens have either moved elsewhere or passed on. I live in what was once considered a nice neighborhood. Now it's full of bad gangs, druggies and prostitutes.
I cannot leave my vehicles on the street any longer. They have been keyed several times and neghbors across the street have been vandalized. Get the picture folks? It's not going to be a pretty picture here when the SHTF. 

For the last year I have been looking at rural land in northern maine. I am still looking but have not found what I am really searching for in my price range. 
It would be nice to find like minded honest folks to share the costs with but I may end up going it alone. How much can you really trust someone in such a dealing? You would have to know them for at least a year or two and do we have that long? Your guess is as good as mine. Crisis may not happen in my lifetime (60 yrs old) but it will happen. So this is what I am contemplating. 

I am trying to put together a group of like minded folks who live in my area to form a survival group. Ideally I am looking for: doctors, electricians, a few guys like MacGyver the tv show, combat vets especially young vets with urban close quarters battle experience and people of other skills. You get the picture. We may all end up dead anyhow but I will not go down without a fight. I am new to this survivor group thing but not new to surviving. Unfortunately mine was in a jungle. Urban survival is something totally different and I need advice and help in forming such a group. In the event of a crisis or disaster the plan would be for the group activate immediately with all necessary supplies, duke it out with the gangs and morons and ultimately head north to sanctuary. I understand that eventually we may be discovered and all out war may take place. Hopefully other neighbors up there would join in and form a small community to defend our loved ones from the terrors of evil. It will be like the law of the jungle...."Eat or be Eaten." This is why I wish to get a piece of land, build a structure that has an underground supply cellar for food and supplies. I plan on having a well for water but that's it! We'll be living like they did 150 years ago and quite frankly... I won't mind it a bit. I love the outdoors and roughing it up. The heck with bills and taxes and cell phones. America did quite well without all the technology. 

I remember the first time I saw the movies; omega man and soylent green. They were really far out and never really gave it too much thought. Now they are not as far fetched as I once thought they were. 

Thanks for your patience in reading and invite any and all to give me pointers and suggestions as well as criticisms. Hopefully I have not upset or singled out anyone here. 

Gunny.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

"Thanks for your patience in reading and invite any and all to give me pointers and suggestions as well as criticisms."

No offence intended, honestly, but you might want to get to know the folks you are trying to recruit. This being your first post on the board, many will be leery of a response. 

BTW :welcome:


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

gunny said:


> I am trying to put together a group of like minded folks who live in my area to form a survival group. Ideally I am looking for: doctors, electricians, a few guys like MacGyver the tv show, combat vets especially young vets with urban close quarters battle experience and people of other skills.


Friends would be the key word here. Setting up a MAG (*M*utual *A*id *G*roup) is something that needs to be done slowly and with care not to alienate those friends. Through talking with neighbors, you may find that you have the beginnings of a MAG. One of our members here on the board was looking at buying a vehicle from a neighbor and found out that the neighbor was a prepper / survivalist as well.

A loosely formed MAG works better than creating a "community" in the middle of the mountains or the middle of the desert. You need to allow each portion of the group to control their lives with the understanding that they will work together when the time comes.

I have a loosely formed MAG right now - like-minded-friends who are all hunters, fishers and extreme-backcountry-fans. I am not the leader, and, I am not the follower. We are all equals in the friendship. We gather together for many reasons, birthdays, camping, hunting, fishing - friends to the end.

If you want to setup a MAG - either start a club or join one that specializes in backcountry-skills. Alpine (skiing), hunting, fishing, off-roading / quading, etc. You will build friendships and through those, your MAG will become self-sustaining.


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## gunny (Sep 24, 2010)

You're absolutely correct. The unfortunate thing is that most people I know are Liberals, they don't believe in anything I believe in let alone doomsday and firearms. They live in la la land or fantasy land. They don't even want to hear anything negative or anything that relates to crisis or pandemonium. I live in MA, one of the most liberal states in the union.
Further more, I am a symphony musician surrounded by liberal folks...these people are colleagues not friends. Most of my friends have moved far away. It will be hard for us to form something like a MAG group as suggested. Thanks for your input.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

You might want to look for a different type of folks. I'd be buddying up to people who are selling things (or even shopping) at Farmer's markets, people who know about growing food. Maybe meet people who are living off-grid. Look for "greenie" mentality people and form friendships. Even if they don't have a survivalist/prepper outlook, they know how to be independent and self-sufficient, to an extent. They probably know how to fix about anything, can think out of the box, and aren't afraid of hard work. Some might be closet preppers or just be aware that something might be coming down the pike. 

Even if they aren't, they might be trustworthy people who would be good allies if the SHTF. If nothing else in your area seems likely, at least it's a place to start. And hiding behind being a greenie, or being someone who wants to manage your money better, or eat healthier by buying organic veggies, is a good front. 

Who knows who you'll meet when you know someone enough to get past the cover.


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## Asatrur (Dec 17, 2008)

Good advice GS. It turns out someone I worked with someone who outed me to myself as a prepper since I already was a gardener, food preserver, etc.



gypsysue said:


> You might want to look for a different type of folks. I'd be buddying up to people who are selling things (or even shopping) at Farmer's markets, people who know about growing food. Maybe meet people who are living off-grid. Look for "greenie" mentality people and form friendships. Even if they don't have a survivalist/prepper outlook, they know how to be independent and self-sufficient, to an extent. They probably know how to fix about anything, can think out of the box, and aren't afraid of hard work. Some might be closet preppers or just be aware that something might be coming down the pike.
> 
> Even if they aren't, they might be trustworthy people who would be good allies if the SHTF. If nothing else in your area seems likely, at least it's a place to start. And hiding behind being a greenie, or being someone who wants to manage your money better, or eat healthier by buying organic veggies, is a good front.
> 
> Who knows who you'll meet when you know someone enough to get past the cover.


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## survivalguy (Sep 25, 2010)

my dads a nam vet brother in law was in afganistan and we seen this coming for a while we have already started a compound of sorts, he has rentals all around the edges of his 80 acres if the SHTF they the renters that are not with us will have to go. the main houses in the center with the barn wells garden ect. we are also looking for some that have the skills we need we have 4 families right now but could take on a few more but they need to have their own supplies there is not a leader here everyone will have their own place and live their own lives we just need the eyes ears and fire power to keep us as a whole and our food ect safe


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

There is safety in number! However, you need to remember the trust issue. I currently have a small group of individuals I trust because they are family. It may be to risky to allow folks to just meet up afterward. We have 4 team members (all cousins) and have mentioned to other close friends we have about forming up in such a situation. I am prior USMC and currently work intelligence for the military, one cousin a cop, one a mechanic, and one a computer guy although post shtf his skill wont be very useful. I suggest forming small groups now of trustworthy people. Assign duties and meet one a month or so. Each meeting we discuss basic first aid, survival skills, small unit tactics, and the "plan" we would carry out. 
I'm new to the forum here and this is my first post but I like to research and provide knowledge I have acquired. I attended a number of military survival schools to include SERE and I'm an avid hunter, camper, shooter, all around outdoorsman.


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

BTW, we are in the Central MD area mostly around Baltimore. We plan to monitor CB channel 6, anyone in the area is invited to attempt to meet up post whatever. Our biggest concern is the sheer number of people in our area. City= more people=more issues. Our first plan was to head to WV but think about it. You don't want to travel right away to an unfamiliar place. Sorry to say but there are probably some pretty serious hunters out there that are better shots than me..think they would see us coming from 500yds away? You don't know what their intentions may be. I would suggest a familiar place to hole up for a while. Even if it is somewhere near a big city.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Just remember guys too much familiarity breeds contempt, even in families. Under stressful conditions you are sure to fray some nerves. Number one to remember, to get through any situation you have to pull together for the benefit of all. I speak from experience. Had our son, his wife and 4 children with us for what was to be a few days, while they looked for a place to live. Turned in to 8 months. I love them dearly but that was a challenge. We were so use to the peace and quite of just the 2 of us.


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## gunny (Sep 24, 2010)

Thank you Clarice for sharing that information with us. I'm sure that under much different conditions and you and I both know what conditions I'm talking about, the challenge you mentioned would be quite different when the challenge of life or death hangs over your heads. Everyone will pull together. But as we are all human beings and very imperfect ones at that, there will always be tensions and disagreements. We will all have to look at the bigger picture and move on. Even the apostle Paul said to the Corinthian congregation:
"Keep putting up with one another".
He must have known what he was talking about don't you think?

Semper Fi


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

HAHA! I agree with that. There are times now where it gets too crowded.


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## fobhomestead (Aug 12, 2010)

mricci86 said:


> There is safety in number! However, you need to remember the trust issue. I currently have a small group of individuals I trust because they are family. It may be to risky to allow folks to just meet up afterward. We have 4 team members (all cousins) and have mentioned to other close friends we have about forming up in such a situation. I am prior USMC and currently work intelligence for the military, one cousin a cop, one a mechanic, and one a computer guy although post shtf his skill wont be very useful. I suggest forming small groups now of trustworthy people. Assign duties and meet one a month or so. Each meeting we discuss basic first aid, survival skills, small unit tactics, and the "plan" we would carry out.
> I'm new to the forum here and this is my first post but I like to research and provide knowledge I have acquired. I attended a number of military survival schools to include SERE and I'm an avid hunter, camper, shooter, all around outdoorsman.


Welcome aboard, MrICCI. Careful with the :tmi: stuff... "In God we trust. All others we monitor". Anyway, can any of you guys grow a garden? I am only asking because I can get tunnel vision as well... and the ... skills ... we learn in the military are not always the be all, end all of a survival situation.

It is great we can all hit our target, but the reality is if I dont know what wintering over carrots means, or how to plant wheat in the fall to winter over.. then I am not really prepared. If I dont have a goat or cow, we dont have milk. Or cheese. Or ICE CREAM  We can hunt for our meat. True. I don't know about you, but I am not interested in being on the Atkins diet (meat only) if :shtf: so I am very interested in learning how to garden.. and milk a goat! I am learning that now... :gaah: it is not as easy as I would have thought!! 
Do you know how to make soap? Build a battery house for solar or wind power? Heat a home on wood... which trees to cut and which are not worth burning? Just throwing out ideas. 
Welcome to prepping.


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

Thanks fob. Yeah I know where the boundaries lie as to what I can and will speak about on here or anywhere else for that matter.

In regards to farming; I don't know too much but I imagine gathering a few small books on various subjects (farming, basic construction, preserving food) would come in handy if just glanced over once or twice and set aside just in case. Like most of us I have far too many hobbies to be an expert on every one so I give and take what time I allot to certain skills.


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## gunny (Sep 24, 2010)

*Response to mricci86*



mricci86 said:


> BTW, we are in the Central MD area mostly around Baltimore. We plan to monitor CB channel 6, anyone in the area is invited to attempt to meet up post whatever. Our biggest concern is the sheer number of people in our area. City= more people=more issues. Our first plan was to head to WV but think about it. You don't want to travel right away to an unfamiliar place. Sorry to say but there are probably some pretty serious hunters out there that are better shots than me..think they would see us coming from 500yds away? You don't know what their intentions may be. I would suggest a familiar place to hole up for a while. Even if it is somewhere near a big city.


I live in a city already in financial trouble with police and firefighters laid off and firestations closed down. The city is a mess and getting worse by the day. I have a lady friend of 62 and her 88 year old mother that will depend on me, a son and his family who are a 15 minutes away and a sister with her son in NH. My plan is to evac to my place in ME. Have a 22 acre lot in mind. Way far out. Land is fertile and plenty of woods for firewood. Plan on drilling a well for water. ME has more lakes per sq mile than any other state = plenty of fish unless we are hit with a nuc bomb under nuc. fallout then none of it will matter any more.


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## fobhomestead (Aug 12, 2010)

mricci86 said:


> Thanks fob. Yeah I know where the boundaries lie as to what I can and will speak about on here or anywhere else for that matter.
> 
> In regards to farming; I don't know too much but I imagine gathering a few small books on various subjects (farming, basic construction, preserving food) would come in handy if just glanced over once or twice and set aside just in case. Like most of us I have far too many hobbies to be an expert on every one so I give and take what time I allot to certain skills.


No worries, MrIC. I would highly suggest grabbing those books... then wherever you are, just try doing a few of the things in the books (same with you, Gunny).

:soapbox2:

Take canning, for example. I have the book. OMG!!! Did you know that you have two reliable methods of canning and it depends on the acidity level of the food on which one you use? And you need a special steam pot for the low acidic foods... and the spacing in the jars (how high you fill it) needs to be at specific levels for different foods... and there cannot be any air in the food so you have to do something with some tool to make sure it is packed right... and all sorts of other crap... that I never knew about canning. I haven't tried it yet. But I do know one thing... I do NOT want to be learning how to do this crap when :shtf: and the stores are out of food, power is out, and people who thought they were prepared really find out that they are not as well as all of the zombies who cannot even put together what FOX (and a very few MSM channels now) are trying to tell them!

Right now, I am learning about basic construction... and something as simple as tying knots. I wont be able to go to my local Ace and get 2x4's ... so I am learning how to make fence posts out of trees. And pole barns. What do we do when there are no nails??? Or screws? How do I build to make sure the weight from 6 feet of snow wont collapse my building?

SO, I am just trying to help out. You have 4 people who can be learning different things. The soil composition where you are at is important. You said you hunt... go hunt... plant foods that will grow wild in your area and is in a very secluded place (hey, criminals do that all the time with pot, so why can't we do that with carrots?). Only you guys will know about it and if the animals happen to find and eat it, well.... carrots/elk meat... it's all good. If you have to stay in the city... that is different. You can grow potatoes in tires... look it up.  
One last thing, (sorry if I am still on my soapbox) is that hobbies are a great thing; however, if they wont keep you fed, safe, and healthy then they can probably be replaced with something that will.

Sorry if it feels like I am :club: you... I just do not want to see a fellow IC person head down the wrong path. One other thing you will have to worry about is your employer in a :shtf: scenario. You cannot reasonably expect to just be able to "clock out" and go home... Good luck, bro. :goodluck:

And with that, I will :soapboxzipper: and give you :beercheer: and a :thankyou: for everything you "don't do". 
Cheers.


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## kyfarmer (Feb 22, 2009)

Well one thing for sure, i will not count on any family to be nothing but unproductive pests. I would like to hook up with a few like minded folks and if nothing else have a sorta, contact group to check up on each other and help when it can be done. Most folk in this area are very independent and keep any prepping under the table. I can fully understand this but to go it 100% alone will be a rough ride. I plan on a radio in the future soon, so info hopefully can be gathered and contact be established. I think that's why it would be better to meet a few in your general area first before it would be a blind contact. After the fact. Southeast Kentucky is a very vast area to get around in, unless ya used to climbing a hill or two. I would think the roads would not be the place to travel in an event.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Regarding the above posts about having books to help learn how to do these things, that is a better plan than having nothing, but...

all the books in the world won't produce a canner, jars, lids, and rings for canning what you can grow, for example. 

It might be necessary to barter with trusted people to get the things you still need. When the stored food runs out and you're living on what you can produce or procure, it's a much bigger job than most people realize.

Unfortunately there are also going to be a lot of people who don't want to pull their weight and do their share of the work.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

gypsysue said:


> When the stored food runs out and you're living on what you can produce or procure, *it's a much bigger job than most people realize.*


That's a fact!
Monday morning I picked up 1/2 bushel of pears. I spent the entire day peeling coring, slicing and finally canning and drying that basket of fruit. Yield; 13 quarts canned and 1 quart baggie of dried. It is a lot of work and I'm going to do it again tomorrow.  
I feel it is absolutely imperative to know how to do these things before you need to rely on them to feed yourself.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I spend hours and hours this time of year peeling and slicing and chopping everything that stays still long enough for my knife to hit! In my sleep I'm still chopping onions! lol 

Good idea to have extra peelers and knives in your preps. If you end up with extra hands in your household/group, that's more 'tools' available to get the work done faster. 

Mmmmm, pears! Sounds good, UncleJoe! That'll be some good eating later on!

We picked the first-ever apples this year from the trees we planted as little sticks 6 years ago!


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## fobhomestead (Aug 12, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> Regarding the above posts about having books to help learn how to do these things, that is a better plan than having nothing, but...
> 
> all the books in the world won't produce a canner, jars, lids, and rings for canning what you can grow, for example.


That is exactly what I was trying to get across, but from a novice perspective! :thankyou:

I think that is why it is critical to participate in this forum. My actual mindset (that long, long time ago when I joined... you know.. 1 1/2 months or so ago?) was that canning would be a simple process that can go further down my prepping list of "things I need to get/learn". Well, I WAS WRONG!! oops: I have been focusing on getting the land ready for a garden, etc... and that is all fine and dandy... I plan on having a great "first" garden next year ( :lolsmash: ) with all of this wonderful produce... then I was just going to can it. That's all. Just can it. 
Then I bought some canning jars that came with a great book.  
I am quickly learning there is no such thing as "just canning it". I WILL be focusing on getting all of the proper tools and other items needed. It's crazy! But I love it.

I know I am great at reading things, then going out and doing it. I am gifted that way. But there are things when it comes to prepping that requires practice and hands on knowledge. What I was trying to get across to MrIC and to Gunny is that NOW is the time to learn it... buy a book. Then DO IT. Try canning something (or building something, or growing something, etc) because doing it now when we can afford to mess it up (Safeway is right on the corner, after all) will not mean the difference between living and dying. The probability of learning it after the fact is slim, especially if you do not have the necessary tools to do it right.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I agree with Gypsysue & Fobhomestead, the time to train is now. I am constantly learning. If we screw up now not much harm, learn from our mistakes and try again. But when TSHTF we may not get a 2nd chance.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Right on, FOB and Clarice! 

What worries me is that even after all the years of canning, I still would need more jars to property preserve a year's worth of food for us. That's why I've shifted to dehydrating a lot of our fruit and vegetables, because then I can use old glass juice jars, pickle and salsa jars, any kind of airtight jar that I can't use for canning. It saves my canning jars for meat, butter, cheese, and anything else I can't dehydrate and must can. 

And then there's the lids. What's in our future for canning when it comes to lids? I currently don't re-use them for canning (I do save them, though, since we store leftovers in canning jars sometimes and the lids come in handy), but I guess if the SHTF I might have to take that chance. Even then they would eventually reach the point where they won't seal and keep a vaccuum. 

As far as books, I like to have a lot of them on hand, even for the things I've done and (think) I know how to do! It's great to be able to refer to them and double-check what i'm doing, as well as to learn new things.

We've talked among friends and neighbors, too and have begun identifying strengths and weaknesses, and finding out who knows how to do what. We're all pretty independent here, but I think there'll be unity when it's needed.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

gypsysue said:


> And then there's the lids. What's in our future for canning when it comes to lids?


There's always these.

TATTLER Reusable Canning Jar Lids Home Page


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

UncleJoe said:


> There's always these.
> 
> TATTLER Reusable Canning Jar Lids Home Page


I clicked on the link and looked at them, but think of how many I'd need!!!

To be able to can enough food to have, say, 2 jars a day, that's 730 lids. That's a big pile of money to put out. I know, I know, I don't have to buy them all at once! But still...


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## unclebob (May 14, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> I clicked on the link and looked at them, but think of how many I'd need!!!
> 
> To be able to can enough food to have, say, 2 jars a day, that's 730 lids. That's a big pile of money to put out. I know, I know, I don't have to buy them all at once! But still...


Did you notice they said the lids would last a lifetime?
They did not say the seals would last a lifetime so I guess your still buying seals. At 23.00 for 36


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I'm currently ordering canning lids by the case through our local feed store, which brings them down to an affordable price, less than a dollar a box. They should "keep" for a while. They're stored in a cool, dry place. 

But someday...even those will be gone. Then I guess we'll be living on dried food, grains, and jerky. Then, too, I might finally appreciate the meat-storing ability provided by our long, cold winter. 

And there's always the idea of an ice house. There's a wonderful thread with good information for that elsewhere on this forum. I guess there's other ways of preserving meat!


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## bunkerbob (Sep 29, 2009)

UncleJoe said:


> There's always these.
> 
> TATTLER Reusable Canning Jar Lids Home Page


I'm not to impressed with these lids, going on over a month and had several failures. I don't normally leave the rings on the jars after processing and cooling, but these will not hold without them. The idea of having a separate rubber ring and plastic lid sounds good but there is two sealing points to worry about, the top and bottom of the rubber rings, the ones that I have left the rings on seem to be ok so far, the ones I did not come right off if you pick it up by the lid. I did buy a bunch of them so we will see how they work in the longrun.


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

Glad I joined this forum. It amazes me to see so many people on here thinking alike and coming up with great ideas. All this time my group and I thought we were being crazy.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

mricci86 said:


> Glad I joined this forum. It amazes me to see so many people on here thinking alike and coming up with great ideas. All this time my group and I thought we were being crazy.


...and WE'RE glad you joined, too!

Our virtual family here on the forum is wonderful! I've learned so much here.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

mricci86 said:


> Glad I joined this forum. It amazes me to see so many people on here thinking alike and coming up with great ideas. All this time my group and I thought we were being crazy.


You are crazy -- and so are we! :nuts: Just ask 95% of the population and they'll say, "Preparing? Preparing for what? That stuff can't happen here. This is America!"

Hang in there, keep a low profile and keep prepping.


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## mricci86 (Sep 26, 2010)

Thanks to all!


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

I didn't check the lid link but it sounds like the lids with replacable seals are similar to the old glass lids with rubber seal rings that fellout of use because of 2 seal surfaces to fail, there is always the old wax sealing trick , if you have bees or a lot of wax,
If a person is not living the homestead lifestyle now , the learning curve will be steep if SHTF , then asumming the net is down you are on your own . If you haven't tried some of this stuff and know what can go wrong things will be tough
As simple as planting way more garden than you need (assuming good conditions) in case of a poor growing season 
Simple water gathering methods ETC :flower:

And you are right most of the sheeple think we are nuts, cause fema handled Katrina so well


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

we got a little OT from the OP here, but I'm going to continue it...

I cannot possibly overstate what an asset CraigsList has been with the 'free' section & just searching for things... 

goto your local page & type in 'jars' or 'canning' in the search field, you might be pleasantly surprised


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Canning jars may not be infinately reusable , nicks on the sealing surface can make sealing impossible, keep this in mind when collecting used sealers


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Tirediron said:


> Canning jars may not be infinately reusable , nicks on the sealing surface can make sealing impossible, keep this in mind when collecting used sealers


but then they can be used for *drinking glasses* 

I only drinks me hootch in them thar fancy *blue* brand-name mason jars!


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Or for storing dried food and herbs... (since they don't need to hold a vaccuum seal)

Or nuts, bolts, nails, etc...


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

gunny said:


> I live in a city already in financial trouble with police and firefighters laid off and firestations closed down. The city is a mess and getting worse by the day. I have a lady friend of 62 and her 88 year old mother that will depend on me, a son and his family who are a 15 minutes away and a sister with her son in NH. My plan is to evac to my place in ME. Have a 22 acre lot in mind. Way far out. Land is fertile and plenty of woods for firewood. Plan on drilling a well for water. ME has more lakes per sq mile than any other state = plenty of fish unless we are hit with a nuc bomb under nuc. fallout then none of it will matter any more.


 Remember in Japan when we bombed with nukes many or most lived even some who were exposed. of course i don't know what type of bomb we have now and it is rumored the new nukes are more lethal than the old ones.:dunno: In a nuke situation,the best protection is matter .Get in a room and put as much insulation between you and the out side environment as possible.
Also many of the emergency responders will be taking care of and protecting their own families .I don't see much help comign from them. Katrina was a good example of this,most went home to their families.Other than the NG people were on their own. The miltary was in som cases doing more harm than god by making some peple defenseless against the criminals who had protected status of being minority.
We now have 40 million known immigrants [ I think its more than what they tell us ],both legal ,illegal. They will be on the side of the gov as will most minorities. Also most of our liberal family members will be against us . Most of the OWS crowd is self loathing white ,liberal communist.
This leaves us as a huge minority .
Anyone livign in a large city will not be safe for long even with other preppers <IMO.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> Right on, FOB and Clarice!
> 
> What worries me is that even after all the years of canning, I still would need more jars to property preserve a year's worth of food for us. That's why I've shifted to dehydrating a lot of our fruit and vegetables, because then I can use old glass juice jars, pickle and salsa jars, any kind of airtight jar that I can't use for canning. It saves my canning jars for meat, butter, cheese, and anything else I can't dehydrate and must can.
> 
> ...


 Sue, I agree canning is a good thing. But some of us can't do but so much because of finances. Learning to grow food and keep water and animals for food,potection is just as important. Keeping seed and growing food for animals 'in our case just chickens'will last longer.of course we should can ,dry and put up as much as possible but not forget the garden,water barrels and plan on how you will keep your animals alive .I ask what kind of winter and summer grass or plant will keep chickens awhile back on here,not many knew or answered.I' told rye is good and keeping worm or grub beds,maybe even crickets for protein.
People can steal or take your preps but if they don't tke your life you may be able to eat off the land for awhile.


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## Calista (Oct 6, 2011)

While I cherish the noble idea of Mutual Aid Groups banding together cohesively and presenting a united face to foes in a SHTF situation, the cynic in me (from living to the age of 64) pictures the realities of the pervasive influence of the entitlement and consumerist mentality most of our (unprepared) neighbors have defined their lives by since childhood. Even preppers in such MAGs are not immune to their creature comforts and desires to steer their own destinies by what they feel are the best responses to perceived threats.

So I get this really depressing image of all those Chiefs and not enough Indians to get the never-ending homesteading work and defensive responsibilities completed on a daily basis without open warfare among THEMSELVES. Slackers and whiners might be the least of the group's worries about survival long-term.

Everybody here has a different definition of OPSEC according to their circumstances, capacity for trust, religious background, or home armory, but any urgings I get about joining a local MAG always comes up against the concept of "You can't un-ring a bell." Once other people know about the extent of your preparations for doom, it's no longer a closely guarded secret that your family depends on to survive the coming bad times but instead a loss of the "low profile" necessary to protect what you worked so hard to amass. YMMV, of course, and I'm sure many of you on this site have close neighbors/friends/family members of long standing that you trust totally with the knowledge of your prepping activities, along with established MAGs that you feel are completely reliable for group survival.

Me, I just can't get past the OPSEC and low-profile aspects drilled into all of us when we first got into prepping, and I'm surrounded in this area by clueless, latte-sipping liberal sheeple who will be MZBs in Priuses if SHTF happens.  In this humorous vein, take a look at this Dilbert cartoon:

Dilbert comic strip for 07/31/2011 from the official Dilbert comic strips archive.

So, OP, I wish you luck in finding your dream group and making it a successful reality -- because I'd sign up for any seminar you'd give on how it was done.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Calista said:


> So I get this really depressing image of all those Chiefs and not enough Indians to get the never-ending homesteading work and defensive responsibilities completed on a daily basis without open warfare among THEMSELVES. Slackers and whiners might be the least of the group's worries about survival long-term.


I remember the first *Survivor* episodes, before the glut of (non)'reality' TV  The only guy who did any work was the 64-year-old B.B. Andersen, who was subsequently voted off on day 6 *coincidentally* after he almost single-handedly constructed the tribe's shelter...

I wanted to apply for the show but I wasn't old enough... I was glad I didn't once the first episode aired and I saw that it was merely a popularity contest, after episode two when the got rid of B.B., I never watched another.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

fobhomestead said:


> No worries, MrIC. I would highly suggest grabbing those books... then wherever you are, just try doing a few of the things in the books (same with you, Gunny).
> 
> :soapbox2:
> 
> ...


That is why in the old movies of the old days, when people moved, they burned their house down, so they could get the nails. Nails were a high dollar item when they had to be made individually by hand. I have buckets of nails saved up.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

The_Blob said:


> I remember the first *Survivor* episodes, before the glut of (non)'reality' TV  The only guy who did any work was the 64-year-old B.B. Andersen, who was subsequently voted off on day 6 *coincidentally* after he almost single-handedly constructed the tribe's shelter...
> 
> I wanted to apply for the show but I wasn't old enough... I was glad I didn't once the first episode aired and I saw that it was merely a popularity contest, after episode two when the got rid of B.B., I never watched another.


It is good to know that you caught that and appreciated BB's skills, and saw how he was far ahead, he was really too much reality for reality tv.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

survivalguy said:


> my dads a nam vet brother in law was in afganistan and we seen this coming for a while we have already started a compound of sorts, he has rentals all around the edges of his 80 acres if the SHTF they the renters that are not with us will have to go. the main houses in the center with the barn wells garden ect. we are also looking for some that have the skills we need we have 4 families right now but could take on a few more but they need to have their own supplies there is not a leader here everyone will have their own place and live their own lives we just need the eyes ears and fire power to keep us as a whole and our food ect safe


Sounds like a good idea.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Meerkat said:


> Sue, I agree canning is a good thing. But some of us can't do but so much because of finances. Learning to grow food and keep water and animals for food,potection is just as important. Keeping seed and growing food for animals 'in our case just chickens'will last longer.of course we should can ,dry and put up as much as possible but not forget the garden,water barrels and plan on how you will keep your animals alive .I ask what kind of winter and summer grass or plant will keep chickens awhile back on here,not many knew or answered.I' told rye is good and keeping worm or grub beds,maybe even crickets for protein.
> People can steal or take your preps but if they don't tke your life you may be able to eat off the land for awhile.


You're right, learning to grow food and keep animals is firstly important. There are other good ways to preserve food than canning, if one would not be able to do canning. Dehydrating is an option, and a root cellar or other cold storage area, all of which can be pretty much free to make, even in Florida.

And you caught right on to a subject I've been preaching about for a long time...how to keep the animals fed when we can no longer go buy feed. Your climate is a lot more friendly to having year-round forage for chickens and the ability to grow things like corn. It's too cold here to grow corn, and the ground is covered with snow 5 to 6 months of the year. It's labor-intensive to grow enough other grains that DO grow up here, to have enough to feed even a few chickens over the winter.

I don't remember, MK, do you have land? Or just a yard? You have some good ideas, about the grasses and crickets, etc., for chicken food.


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

gypsysue said:


> You're right, learning to grow food and keep animals is firstly important. There are other good ways to preserve food than canning, if one would not be able to do canning. Dehydrating is an option, and a root cellar or other cold storage area, all of which can be pretty much free to make, even in Florida.
> 
> And you caught right on to a subject I've been preaching about for a long time...how to keep the animals fed when we can no longer go buy feed. Your climate is a lot more friendly to having year-round forage for chickens and the ability to grow things like corn. It's too cold here to grow corn, and the ground is covered with snow 5 to 6 months of the year. It's labor-intensive to grow enough other grains that DO grow up here, to have enough to feed even a few chickens over the winter.
> 
> I don't remember, MK, do you have land? Or just a yard? You have some good ideas, about the grasses and crickets, etc., for chicken food.


 yes Sue we have several acreas of land but most of it has'nt been touhed since the early 50s and has large trees on it that are hundred of years old, we hear them crash to the grund now and then espeically the huge limbs . It would cost 1000s to cut down the tres plus I like the woods .We only use about 2 ac.s the rest is jut a place to walk in the woods or trails we made.
I never did find out which grasses or plants to sow for chickens,but was told one for winter is rye,not sureif thats correct.
We hav some cabbage that looks like it won't head up so they can eat that and we feed then scraps. But would like to aise worms or grubs crickets for them for more protein.
Anythign larger than chickens would be a challenge for us. Theres plenty of wd prey but I'm sure it wil soon be illegal to hunt if TPTB have their way.
Wanted to get a pond for fish but the Just-Us Dept won't allow it.


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## The_Exorcist (Dec 4, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> Friends would be the key word here. Setting up a MAG (*M*utual *A*id *G*roup) is something that needs to be done slowly and with care not to alienate those friends. Through talking with neighbors, you may find that you have the beginnings of a MAG. One of our members here on the board was looking at buying a vehicle from a neighbor and found out that the neighbor was a prepper / survivalist as well.
> 
> A loosely formed MAG works better than creating a "community" in the middle of the mountains or the middle of the desert. You need to allow each portion of the group to control their lives with the understanding that they will work together when the time comes.
> .


Great minds think alike, I have been trying to assemble a group like that for a couple of months now, but no luck so far.
Folks in my town are oddly apathetic... or kinda goofy. That's frustrating, because I've met many people in other towns and villages all around me that are much more "with it".
_Very_ frustrating....


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

The_Exorcist said:


> Great minds think alike, I have been trying to assemble a group like that for a couple of months now, but no luck so far.
> Folks in my town are oddly apathetic... or kinda goofy. That's frustrating, because I've met many people in other towns and villages all around me that are much more "with it".
> _Very_ frustrating....


 Hi ,I like your signature Ex.
Your avatar ,is it a black confederate ?
people around here are very private mostly only associate with family.I did talk to one of them about preps this week though.And I know for a fact that a couple more are planning for armagedden,hehe.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

To the OP:

I think you are smart to know you need help, but you may want to consider a small adjustment in your outlook. You may have more like-minded folks nearby than you think. Very few people know I'm a doomer or to what extent, and those that do have been evaluated very carefully. If I met someone who was mentally prepped for the Alamo, but discarded huge segments of society because they didn't share politics and thought farming was something you could sum up in a couple of books... they'd never find out the first thing about my preps or what skills I do have. (Other than a careful constructed facade of an obsessive gardener that serves as my calling card to other doomers.)

Finding the truly like-minded is sometimes like a dance. You size people up, carefully toss out subjects and code words and see how people respond. When someone tosses out a code word you pick it and up the ante. This has helped me connect with many local doomers -- including one in my own neighborhood! -- and simply meet people with great and useful skills. Surprisingly, there are very few other things that we share in common, but instead of letting that create tension, we let our differing backgrounds and outlooks add to the knowledge pool of our group.

One thought for you might be to barter your military skills for teaching in other skills or something else you need. You'll probably meet more suburban wannabe husbands than anything else, but you never know. You get a chance to show off the skills you have and demonstrate a willingness to learn new ones, which can be your "calling card." Really *listen* to what people say and you may hear the unspoken tension.

Good luck. And just another 2 cents -- be where you are going to be. Don't plan to leave -- just be willing to leave if you need to. If those 22 acres in Maine are calling to you, go there and start making them work for you. It's better to find out the bad spots of the land (and there always are some) while you have time to mitigate them, and better to create a community where you expect to be long term.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

as far as building supplies, how many of you have an ades and know how to use it? or perhaps a jack plane. do you you know the difference between a king pin truss and a queen truss or a scissor truss. perhaps know hoe to stress out a beam. what about persevering food? is it better to dry meat or can it. what about cooking if there is no wood for a fire. can you can on a solar stove? how will we can food? what about make clothes. where will we get cloth? there is soo much to know that we must use others to help us. if the shtf really does occur... we WILL form new communities for our needs as well as for a level of safety. who "runs" those communities will depend on knowledge, and I feel even a level of bullying to get things done and make sure that people pull their weight. we need to ask ourselves where will be in these places and how will we work them.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

stayingthegame said:


> as far as building supplies, how many of you have an ades and know how to use it? or perhaps a jack plane. do you you know the difference between a king pin truss and a queen truss or a scissor truss. perhaps know hoe to stress out a beam. what about persevering food? is it better to dry meat or can it. what about cooking if there is no wood for a fire. can you can on a solar stove? how will we can food? what about make clothes. where will we get cloth? there is soo much to know that we must use others to help us. if the shtf really does ocscur... we WILL form new communities for our needs as well as for a level of safety. who "runs" those communities will depend on knowledge, and I feel even a level of bullying to get things done and make sure that people pull their weight. we need to ask ourselves where will be in these places and how will we work them.


I have a few adze, broadaxes, crosscut saws, single and double bit axes, a large sharpening stone wheel. Blacksmith tools, tool steels, plows, It may seem that I live in a junkpile, but when things get bad, I am sure the pile will be picked over. I even have a froe or two. A shaving horse, for making paddles and shaving wood with a draw knife. I was lucky enough to be raised by people who had people they personally knew, that fought in the Civil War. When I was little, my grandmothers grandmother was still alive and well, and I learned a lot. I am also


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

If you were really having to frontier it in the wilderness and build a dwelling, about the hardest thing to do is hinge a door. You can make everything else happen easy enough, but door hinges will be a great thing to have. So, if you have a spot in the woods you may go to, stash some hinges, nails, your wood tools, lots of splitting wedges. Luckily, there are still some houses here from the early 1800's that are made of quartered logs. I have studied how they were built. One house, Andrew Jackson gave them the land, and the dog that is buried with the family in the little cemetary, so I know that house is old.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

leather strips were often used for hinges in the old west days. and yes, hinges can be made out of wood. I bought my dh a tap and die that makes wooden screws. in the modern shtf world I would use old tires for hinges if I need to. surviral will be dependent on being able to look around you and use what you see for what you need. look at something and see what else it might bee used for. tires could be used for hinges and shoe soles. it might be fun to start a thread on what an item might be used for. others could see things we dont and give us new ideas.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

I understand, I have used pieces of nylon straps for ice chest hinges for years. But, I already know how floppy a tire hinge door will be. Talking about using tires for shoe soles, how about making natural glue to stick them on? I would want mine made out of some Co-Op grip spur mud grippie tires. I have always preferred to carry one tool that does a few things than a few tools to do one thing. You go ahead and start that thread, and I will happily be a contributor.


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