# Mad Max or the Waltons?



## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Earl Hamner, the creator of the Waltons, was born and raised in the little community of Schyler, Va. about 30 miles up the road from me. His Waltons series that was thinly disguised as his own early life during the Depression was viewed by millions each week, and most of us watched over the duration of the show as the kids grew into adulthood. Three generation lived in that old farm house on "Walton's Mountain", a fictitious place, but one in which we became familiar with. There is a Walton's museum in Schyler, and you would be amazed at the number of visitors, both from the US and abroad, that visit it each year. Even the cast of the show visit upon occasion.

I bring this up because I believe we as a society will one day, maybe soon, have to tailor our daily lives much as did the Walton's. Out of necessity families will once again have to live together and work to contribute to the overall health and survival of the family. We will be forced to be frugal, eliminate waste, and count every penny as our forebears did during the "great Depression as we endure the Greatest Depression. There will be distinct differences, however.

People are different now, at least generally. As our moral restraints have been cut, many in society faced with hard times will act accordingly. That was not the case back in '29. People then still has a conscious and knew right from wrong.

People during the Walton era were much more self-sufficient. No one counted on entitlements or put much faith that the government would take care of them. Much of the population was still rural, or had only recently left the rural environment. They still knew how to "get by". Not today.

Without getting much longer on this post, suffice it to say that I am not a believer in the Mad Max scenario befalling us, but that does not mean we will have the idyllic friendly existence safe on Walton's Mountain regardless of where you live.


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

This really does speak volumes. You hit the nail right on the head.

Scary as it sounds, it will probably be more Mad Max to begin with, Waltons as it gets better.

People will riot, loot, and burn down their town when their team WINS a championship...

Lord only knows what could happen when a couple million people DON'T get their entitlement checks...


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Personally I think it will end up being much more like the Waltons meet the Little house on the prairie meet the postman.. every small town back before instant information(via telephone/tv/cell phone) did have it's problems with troublemakers. 
Most of us are going to be the small town, everyone work together for the common good type people.. but we are still going to have the folks who want everything handed to them no matter what the world is like.. they have always been there and will always be there.. the "I don't wanna work for it" people.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

Jezcruzen said:


> Without getting much longer on this post, suffice it to say that I am not a believer in the Mad Max scenario befalling us, but that does not mean we will have the idyllic friendly existence safe on Walton's Mountain regardless of where you live.


 probably more of a Walton style depression And the bums,vagrants will not be trustworthy, probably a nice smile on their face with a gun or knife concealed in their hand. Anyone paying attention to the world should know that we're never coming out of this next depression in our life time when it does hit so it will be everyone for themselves. fifty % of the people aren't working now and things will not get any better for many yrs.The gov says unemployment is like 8% but it';s really over 20% for people who want to work, then there's the 35% on the tax payers tit who will not work,next is the seniors, the invalids and kids.. we're all set up for martial Law, the Patroit Act, the New Defence Bill and yesterday the Congress Criminalized the Right to Free Assembly.


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## lilmissy0740 (Mar 7, 2011)

It would be nice to dream that life would mimick the Waltons, but I have my doubts. The lack of self respect, let alone respect for others, in most of the population has diminished to the point of no return. Its a "What about ME and F U society" out there in the real world. I think until all the ME people starve to death, it wont be "The Waltons" unfortunatley. although I do love the show


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## Rain23 (Jul 18, 2011)

I think we're going to have both as the entitlement segment of society tries to take from the prepared/willing to work sector. 

We need to get back to the idea that it isn't wealth or a glam job that makes a person honorable, it's willingness to work with other people and treat them with respect. There's no shame in living in a shack without plumbing if that's all you can afford, nor is it shameful to take charity if you've done everything you can and can't get work for pay. There's also a whole segment of society that thinks "If you have that you are obligated to share with me." There's going to be a rough transition as those people find out rule of law was all that kept them from being shot like a chicken hawk. Charity will go back to being something people do out of goodwill instead of something they are taxed for, and that's the way it should be.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

history channel after armmageddon is IMO the most likely scenario

Here's a brief blip of the movie


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

Praying for the Waltons, but hubby is preparing for Mad Max.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

DJgang said:


> Praying for the Waltons, but hubby is preparing for Mad Max.


ditto!probably a bit of both.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The way the "whats happening at highschool" stories that I have heard lately todays youth don't stand much of a chance, teachers not expecting much work from students and just giving them marks instead of an education. bad habits are easy to learn, hard to unlearn. I am not sure if there is enough drive taught to these kids to generate either scenario.:gaah:


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## md1911 (Feb 9, 2012)

No but hunger is a great motivator. If the economy gets worse and welfare stops the young non motivated teens your talking about will get hungry.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Hey, our new motto!

"*Hope for the Waltons but prepare for MadMax*"

I think it'll be a bit of both, and I think some of it will depend on the locale. I'm betting the east coast has a whole different scenario than the rural middle of the country. There may be good and bad people everywhere but I believe the best chance will still be in the rural areas and small towns.

There are still a lot of good people in this nation, and a lot of people are bored and don't even realize it. Life might actually take on real meaning when they begin the necessary tasks in a major depression or if the SHTF. I know there will be people who won't want to work or help themselves, but I'm betting we'll have some pleasant surprises.

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I've had good results just by believing in the people I come across. Some of the city people who have visited here at our remote homestead expected to be laughed at or have jokes played on them. Instead we respected them and in return, they respected us. I read the news enough to know that everything doesn't always turn out well though.


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## HamiltonFelix (Oct 11, 2011)

Well, what were Americans like in the time period in which The Waltons is set? Yep, like the Waltons. More rural back then. Both of my parents were children during the Depression (a "softer" term FDR coined, because the traditional "banking panic" sounded too scary). My mother, born in Chicago, said "it was horrible, we were hungry, it hurt!" 

Dad grew up on the family homestead near Granite Falls, Washington. He said "We didn't have any money, but nobody did. There were fish in our lake, fruit in the orchard, deer in the woods, vegetables in the garden. We worked hard, but it was a good life." 

Big difference there. Times were hard, but 1930's Americans were basically decent people.

And what are Americans like today? Today, most people have very few useful skills. Most people are urbanized. A hobo of the Depression era never heard of Crips, Bloods, MS13 or Black Gangster Disciples. We're looking at some serious Mad Max, for sure. Those who survive will settle down and try for The Waltons. But don't even dream that Big Government will leave them alone. 

Never mind me, I stayed up too late last night, reading Jim Rawles, "The Survivors."


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

I really believe those of us living in rural areas will be closer to the Walton's. Those in the big cities I'm afraid are in for some trouble big time. My advise to the city dwellers is GOOD (get out of dodge).


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Clarice said:


> I really believe those of us living in rural areas will be closer to the Walton's. Those in the big cities I'm afraid are in for some trouble big time. My advise to the city dwellers is GOOD (get out of dodge).


I think you are accurate. I think it will be pockets of Waltons and maybe pockets of Mad Max, especially in the metro areas.

Well, I hope my area is more like Walton's Mountain.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

I must admit I disagree with all of you. For most of us we will neither see "Mad Max" nor "The Waltons". We will be much more likely to see something akin to "Demolition Man" but with 90% living in the sewers like they did in that movie. The problem with your ideas is that nothing is going to make technology go away. The rich and powerful (politicians) will always have access to technology and it will be applied in a greater and greater way in order to deprive us of our constitutional rights. Big Brother *WILL NOT *do without electricity, computers, surveillance, etc. In fact those things will continue to advance though maybe at a slower pace. Rest assured unless we change things at the ballot box we will continue our slow slide into slavery.

Basically what will happen is that we will all be priced out of our current lifestyles all the while losing our liberty to the politicians and well-connected folks who use our taxes to fund their largess. You may well have a gang of thugs attack your house to steal your food stores (because everyone is starving) and rape your wife but when the government finds out you shot those thugs they will prosecute you for it, throw you in jail or execute you for being a terrorist, take all your provisions, and probably turn your wife out on the streets to be raped by the thugs you only wounded. Our lives will much more resemble life in North Korea than Mad Max or The Waltons.

Pray that I am wrong but fear I am right.


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## lefty (Sep 29, 2011)

I think in the beginning there will be a mad max/ Demolition man kind of situation (depending on where you live. I think that with in a couple of months of the total fall there will be a big die off from staravation/ illness etc. THen it will be a 1880/ early 1990's type of society


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

TheAnt said:


> I must admit I disagree with all of you. For most of us we will neither see "Mad Max" nor "The Waltons". We will be much more likely to see something akin to "Demolition Man" but with 90% living in the sewers like they did in that movie. The problem with your ideas is that nothing is going to make technology go away. The rich and powerful (politicians) will always have access to technology and it will be applied in a greater and greater way in order to deprive us of our constitutional rights. Big Brother *WILL NOT *do without electricity, computers, surveillance, etc. In fact those things will continue to advance though maybe at a slower pace. Rest assured unless we change things at the ballot box we will continue our slow slide into slavery.
> 
> Basically what will happen is that we will all be priced out of our current lifestyles all the while losing our liberty to the politicians and well-connected folks who use our taxes to fund their largess. You may well have a gang of thugs attack your house to steal your food stores (because everyone is starving) and rape your wife but when the government finds out you shot those thugs they will prosecute you for it, throw you in jail or execute you for being a terrorist, take all your provisions, and probably turn your wife out on the streets to be raped by the thugs you only wounded. Our lives will much more resemble life in North Korea than Mad Max or The Waltons.
> 
> Pray that I am wrong but fear I am right.


If what you say will occur actually does, I predict that for local collaborators in my area it will be Hell on earth for at least a short time!


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

I would sure hope it's like the Walton's/Little House/Postman; but due to the selfishness and unpreparedness of many AND the entitlment society we have, I'm afraid we might have more Mad Max/After Armegeddon for a while. I guess it would greatly depend on what happens.


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## TimB (Nov 11, 2008)

I'll agree that it will be a little of both, depending on areas (and hope Ant is wrong  ). 
One thing I wonder about in an Ant scenario is how would Big Brother control big cities? There aren't enough troops, let alone LEOs, to do it. And if all our troops were brought home to aid in the effort, how many would desert to get to their families? :scratch 
Scary to think about, at any rate. :gaah:

Tim


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## Herbalpagan (Dec 8, 2008)

I think to control the cities you might look to "Escpe from NY"...a big wall or blockade will keep the bulk of the people in and would be fairly easy to do in some places. A lot of cites (not all of course) are built on a river/canal/lake and by blocking bridges it keeps most in. Of course, TSA will be there to help!


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

DJgang said:


> Praying for the Waltons, but hubby is preparing for Mad Max.


I agree DJ - praying for the Waltons, but preparing for Mad Max.

Like others, I think we'll see Mad Max first, and those who survive in the long run will become more like the Waltons...


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

I agree more with Ant. We're not going to wake up one day and some cataclysmic event has happened. (Well maybe, but not likely.) Instead we are going to see more income disparity and I think 3 distinct classes as our resources dwindle.

The Have's -- the elite and powerful and wealthy. They have technology, energy and are the ruling class. In truth, though, they are reliant for everything they have on:

The Middles, who have very little and manage to survive by serving the Have's. They have jobs working long hours for insufficient pay and are afraid to leave any job no matter how demeaning it becomes. A few are highly valued and pampered, most are just quietly desperate and living off the crumbs that fall down from above. They of course sneer at:

The Have Not's, who have nothing. Since they do not have useful skills to exploit by the Haves and very little chance of acquiring them they have little chance of climbing the ladder. Their only real option to survive is through crime and violence, and as long as they don't touch the pampered middles or the haves, they are mostly ignored. But they make useful scapegoats and are blamed for all the problems of the Middles. When the Middles get discontent, life just gets worse for the Have Nots.

There will also likely be some folks who don't fit into any of these categories -- at least until the Haves decide that want what the Nonconformists have. I don't this the Nonconformists will be as secure as they hope. Eventually the Middles will wake up and revolt but they will need the support of the Have Nots. Hopefully they haven't pissed on them *too* much when the time comes.

And I think we are very, very close to this happening, I'm sorry to say.


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

TimB said:


> I'll agree that it will be a little of both, depending on areas (and hope Ant is wrong  ).
> One thing I wonder about in an Ant scenario is how would Big Brother control big cities? There aren't enough troops, let alone LEOs, to do it. And if all our troops were brought home to aid in the effort, how many would desert to get to their families? :scratch
> Scary to think about, at any rate. :gaah:
> 
> Tim


I hope I am wrong too. I would prefer The Waltons and even Mad Max to simply an overbearing government with dwindling personal freedom.

Big Brother doesnt have to control everyone in big cities. They just have to control the few that oppose them. Truth is most folks will happily trade their freedom for a loaf of bread. Big Brother will concentrate on imposing their will on those that love freedom and liberty because those folks are dangerous to the ruling classes hold on power.



AlabamaGal said:


> I agree more with Ant. We're not going to wake up one day and some cataclysmic event has happened. (Well maybe, but not likely.) Instead we are going to see more income disparity and I think 3 distinct classes as our resources dwindle.
> 
> The Have's -- the elite and powerful and wealthy. They have technology, energy and are the ruling class. In truth, though, they are reliant for everything they have on:
> 
> ...


You expand on what I was thinking and I think you might be pretty close. I would liken life in America in this situation to that of a prison.

The "Haves" will mostly be political hacks and those that gain wealth by enabling them. The "Haves" are by far the smallest by population - 1-2% maybe. They reliant on keeping the "Have Nots" and the "Middles" dependant on the false sense of security and the freebies and handouts. Even if those handouts are only a loaf of bread a week and a handful of rice per person. These guys basically play "the warden" in a prison scenario.

The "Middles" as you put it will be a fairly small class -- lets say 3% by population. They will mostly be aspiring "Haves" that are eager to serve the "Haves" so that they can have power and wealth too. The primary goal of the "Middle" is to gain wealth and favor by doing the bidding of the "Haves". They are the basically "the guards" in the prison scenario.

The "Have Nots" are BY FAR the largest class and are just trying to survive. They take advantage of each other mostly and are dependant on the few freebies and handouts from the "Haves". They rarely rise up against the "Haves" or the "Middles" because they depend on these two groups -- not to mention the only thing they have in their favor in a revolt is numbers. This group basically plays "the prisoner" in the prison scenario and they have no rights, no freedom, and little chance of success in a riot if they had the backbone to conduct one.

Then there is the fourth group you alluded to. This is the group many of us might fit into. In the prison scenario this group would still be "prisoners" but they are loaded with contraband (food, tools, guns & ammo). They pride themselves on not being like the other prisoners who grovel for their food but in some cases we 'evangelize' those who are interested in self-reliance. This group grows smaller and smaller every year because the "Middles" and even the "Have Nots" raid them and take what they can. The "Middles" do it under the guise of law. The "Have Nots" do it in many cases just to survive. In some pockets of the country this group may even form small villiages or cooperatives but they keep a low profile so as to not have the "Haves" send the "Middles" out to reign us in. We are never allowed to amass too much security or power because the "Haves" remember the tea party our ancestors threw.

We are hated and feared by the "Haves", attacked and looted by the "Middles", looted and betrayed by the "Have Nots". We are the last vestages of the pioneer, the middle class worker, the inventor, and within us is guarded the last flicker of hope for the American spirit.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

I would guess the Middle's would be more than 3% or so, but certainly would not be a large group. They will be the people who actually have skills that are needed, and frankly that's not many folks. When you look at earlier times, that those not in the upper end nor the lower end were a very small group -- a few well off merchants, some traveling artists and so forth. America didn't invent them, but it attracted them by the shipload when shipping out to somewhere they could be left alone became available.

But today the upper classes are not willing to do without people like power plant workers and engineers now, so I think that group will be larger than they have been historically.

There is a lot of talk from both sides that some kind of class warfare is going on, but it isn't really. The anomally is not that wealth and power are being greatly concentrated in the hands of a few -- that's been the way society has been most of the time for recorded history. The presence of a strong middle class in the west is the revolutionary state of being, and one I think is peetering out. The middle class is shrinking to a minority. Right now in the US everyone thinks they are middle class, even those who are nowhere near close. If you are 2 paychecks from being homeless, you are NOT middle class. A leased BMW does not make you middle class, a McMansion does not make you middle class, and job title does not make you middle class. Even your paycheck alone does not.

Ironically, it's those who are truly not middle class but delude themselves into thinking they are that are most vocal in their disdain and sometimes even outright hatred of the "poor," little realizing they _are_ the poor. Even among the poor we have this arbitrary concept of the deserving poor and the undeserving -- and where you mentally place someone says a lot more about you than it does about the poor person.

Me, I'd rather be "poor" and live in a shack and be able to feed myself than be "middle class" and be truly poor because the bank owns everything I think I have. I think the past few years have brought a lot more people to that realization. The economists are wringing their hands over the fact that the masses are persisting in paying off their credit card debt. Awww.

:rantoff:


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## Claymore5150 (Nov 17, 2011)

Folks in the rural areas of my hometown didn't even know there was a Great Depression.
Dirt poor appalachia....it was business as usual for them....
Work hard before the sun comes up until the sun goes down to put food on the table and take care of the property.
"Don't throw nuthin away, you can figger a way to use it for somethin besides what it was made for."
Fix anything and everything using what you have on hand or can trade for.

Even in the 20's and 30's there was no indoor plumbing out there, no electricity that far out of town (12-15 miles), only 2 or 3 cars in a 100sq. mile area, about as many tractors.
Beasts of burden, ox/horse drawn farming was STILL their way of life.

It is always interesting to listen to the folks that lived during that time from Appalachia. Times were tough but they didn't know any different, it was just normal for them.

Every day another one of them dies, it's like a library burns to the ground.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

TheAnt said:


> We are the last vestages of the pioneer, the middle class worker, the inventor, and within us is guarded the last flicker of hope for the American spirit.


Wow. That is just beautifully put.:congrat:


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## TheAnt (Jun 7, 2011)

mdprepper said:


> Wow. That is just beautifully put.:congrat:


Thanks, Ive been told I only need take the test to get my BS degree.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

A good movie that has a very interesting human dynamic is "land of the Dead" sure it is a zombie movie but it has a very good story line compared to most of them.. worth watching again.. it is on right now thru HBO but most video stores should have it.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Claymore5150 said:


> Folks in the rural areas of my hometown didn't even know there was a Great Depression.
> Dirt poor appalachia....it was business as usual for them....
> Work hard before the sun comes up until the sun goes down to put food on the table and take care of the property.
> "Don't throw nuthin away, you can figger a way to use it for somethin besides what it was made for."
> ...


Excellent post that drives right to the heart of the issue. Throughout rural Virginia, especially in SW Virginia in the Appalachian region, life was (and still is) hard. The people knew how to "get by" for the long-term. They weren't in some BOL with a sack full of MREs that would run out in a week or two. From plowing all day with a mule to plant a corn crop to making whiskey, they knew how to "get'ur done". Imagine some urbanite or suburbanite showing up in such an area after "bugging out". How long would they last?


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## TeufelHunden (Feb 29, 2012)

Hate to burst the old-timey nostalgic bubble but there will not be any "Walton" scenario for quite some time after STHF. People nowadays are not of the same stock they were back in the day. They are 87% urbanized, spoon-fed, sissified, and lack anything remotely resembling the morals and ethics of yesteryear. At first it's going to be "Escape from New York" meets "Dawn of the Dead" meets Hurricane Catrina. Then it will settle into the "Postman" or "Mad Max" and finally will result in "The Road". At which point it might, MIGHT, eventually turn into the Walton-like scenario as people ban together to lift themselves from the hell that will be so pervasive. If you think for one second you and your 10-15 member posse are gonna hole-up on your farm and survive.... Check out some population densities in areas close to you, if your out west your prob ok for quite awhile. East, coastal areas and down south, well, we're gonna have issues. I live in north central PA and Philly 1.5 million people have 11,000/square mile. Pittsburgh-500k, Harrisburg- 49k and so on. The areas that are with in 50 miles of me have a total pop of roughly 100k or so. Where are all these people going to go when SHTF? 

YOUR FARM

Lets say 50% die from various causes. That still leaves a few hundred thousand people (or millions depending on your location) with no food, water or shelter. Jim-Bob and Aunt Betty in the pick-up with their trusty ole' lever action 30-30 ain't gonna do shit. Sheer numbers of half starved raving mad urbanites will carry the day. Human locusts. 

Anyway, it's gonna be hell for everyone. The Waltons? Not by a long shot. More like "The Road" meets Dante's Inferno!


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## Kellog (Mar 3, 2012)

This thread has made me come out of longtime lurkdom and post. Sorry it's so long, but ya'll got me going with this topic. I'm with Jezcruzan, Emerald and Gypsy Sue, and the other jaded optimists. Maybe it won't be the Waltons but I think the Mad Max scenario is over-hyped. Why? Well, because of that pesky little thing called "reality". Not Reality TV and not the movies. Gen-u-ine reality.

Oh wait, just look at all those people rioting and looting after that big tornado outbreak that just happened!! They have nothing now, so they will be rioting and looting!! What?? You didn't see the all that looting and people stealing from one another? Hmmm&#8230;maybe 'coz it's not happening.

But that's different!! What about Katrina??? Well, yes, in an ill prepared city with an inept response, bad things did happen. And I think as a country we were shamed by it. How many times since then, after there has been a disaster, have you heard the phrase: "We didn't want this to be another Katrina."? I think it changed how we respond on a personal and governmental level to disasters of all kinds. How many places now have developed municipal or state wide disaster plans? And how individuals are doing some basic preps? I know my state has learned some hurricane lessons over the last few years and now has a pretty darn good disaster plan. As does our local county - and even our neighborhood has a plan. Oh, but you can't rely on the government!! True. But you know what? I've been to Ready.gov. Nowhere does it say "just sit tight and the government will be there licky split to take care of you". Nope. It says basically what folks say on this board. Be prepared to survive on your own for a _*minimum*_ (not maximum) of three days, have extra food & water, have a bug out bag and a plan if local conditions require evacuation. I think some folks are starting to listen. Katrina got a lot of people's attention. At least it's a start.

And by the way, during the coverage of Katrina did you happen to notice there were plenty of places that banded together into neighborhood watches and mutual aid areas? Maybe not because they didn't get a lot of coverage, but there were a lot of them - especially in Mississippi where there was terrible damage that didn't get the coverage New Orleans did. It was the same after Hurricanes Rita and Ike. Even in New Orleans, people tried to help one another. But the dramatic bad stuff gets more air time and sticks in the mind longer&#8230;that's just how humans are wired.

Are there bad people who will exploit and take advantage others? You betcha. Are there terminally stupid people who won't do even the most basic preps and then scream "Help me!!"? You betcha. However, I think those two groups are in the minority. I think there is a large third group can be influenced. Humans are great imitators. Frankly, that's one of the things I find frustrating about the "everyone is going to riot, come after my stuff, and kill us all" mentality. Well, yeah&#8230;if you tell a person that's what you expect them to do, that's what many will be inclined to do. But if there is a higher expectation to behave as _civilized_ people even though we are in distress, and there is an expectation of people to live up to that standard, a lot (not all&#8230;but a lot) will imitate that too. And just because people are behaving in a civilized manner, it does not make them helpless or easy marks. It just makes them&#8230;well...civilized. A cut about the critters, so to speak.

Oh, but it's different in urban areas, you say. Well, let's remember the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. That was probably the biggest SHTF urban event since the last big west coast earthquake. Did you see anyone shooting anyone and taking their car so they and their family could "get outta Dodge". No? Maybe it wasn't covered, or maybe it didn't happen. As I recall there wasn't much looting either. I do recall seeing a lot of people helping one another - some at the risk of their own lives. I do recall shop keepers handing out free shoes and food and water to folks escaping the debris cloud. And lots and lots of help coming from the first responders. Oh, wait, how could that be&#8230;according to the doom and gloom forecasters, the first responders will all flee at the first sign of SHTF to take care of their families. Well, my friends, if you will pardon my saying so, that is an offensive idea to me. Believe it or not there are still people who know the meaning of duty and honor and I think we saw many, many examples of that during that tragic time. And we continue to see it again and again in every disaster. BTW, the families and friends of first responders understand the conflicts they face and make sure things are covered for the first responders while they are out there pulling *our* rears out of the fire.

I'm not naïve. I know there are bad, evil, nut job folks out there and some are armed. I'm prudent not paranoid. I lock my doors, I'm adequately armed, I've got my preps and I practice a certain amount of "OPSEC". It's just been my experience that there are plenty of folks who will rise to the occasion when there's trouble and HELP one another, not shoot and loot one another. And often, that help sets the standard for many of the so called "sheeple" to follow. Many people _are_ followers, so why not give 'em productive examples and ideas instead of destructive scenerios to follow. (I'm not just singing an airy fairy peace and love ditty here&#8230;this has been my actual experience during both troubled economic times and natural disasters) If we can encourage the idea of co-operation and mutual aid in our own communities and neighborhoods, I think we are much better positioned to handle any zombie hoard that comes our way. And if, one day, we die at the hands of a zombie hoard, so be it. Like the kathyprepper eloquently said in another thread. "We'll all going to die, it's how we live that will count."

Look back on the history of the USA. Over the years we've been through a terrible civil war, numerous economic highs and disastrous lows, two world wars, several other wars, civil unrest and riots, assassinations of leaders, countless local and regional natural disasters, and terrorist attacks. We are still here. We definitely have our problems, we are not perfect, but we've managed to persevere. I wonder why that is? If you follow ONLY the doom and gloom predictions, we should have been toast by now. But we aren't. I'm playing the odds, even if TSHTF, I think we'll make it. Bruised and battered perhaps, but we'll make it.


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## TeufelHunden (Feb 29, 2012)

The thing that has to be kept in mind is everything that happened in US history were isolated events where a large part of the country still had law and order. Under those circumstances I'd say yes we will be able to take it on the chin and "drive on". In almost every event from WWII to the Civil War to 911 there were large areas of the country that were, for the most part, untouched. 

Were talking total, SHTF, collapse of everything here. No one will be untouched. Yes I do believe some areas will band together and survive relatively intact provided the necessary elements for survival are in place. BUT overall chaos WILL ensue and I just find it hard to be overly optimistic about such scenarios. If it helps ya sleep at night fine. I just don't find much of a silver lining here. Then again I am an extreme pessimist so there ya go...


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

Kellog said:


> Maybe it won't be the Waltons but I think the Mad Max scenario is over-hyped. Why? Well, because of that pesky little thing called "reality". Not Reality TV and not the movies. Gen-u-ine reality.


:congrat:

I only truncated for brevity -- your whole comment was great.


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## Kellog (Mar 3, 2012)

I get where you are coming from TerfelHunden and you could be right. Like I said, I'm just playing the odds. I'm getting too old to worry too much about things I cannot control...going do what I can and then get on with living. What will be will be. On the other hand, after watching that Alien Invasion show on NatGeo last night and then reading this: http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/02/massive-solar-flare/ I may be sleeping only half the night! :surrender:

Thanks for your kind comment AlabamaGal. Brevity?? That's a concept I'm obviously not well acquainted with!


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