# Bug out kayak



## Gator

I'm moving to Philadelphia and and currently trying to route my ways out when the SHTF. Two rivers run through the city and one is about 4 blocks from me so I'm considering adding a kayak to my gear to GOOD and move my self down towards rural Southern New Jersey, a journey that I would prefer to take at night while traveling through denser areas. So I'm looking for a kayak that will be able to hold my gear. Any suggestions? 

Also, do they make something I can pull behind me on the kayak to store my gear or extra supplies?


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## Bobbb

Do you have any experience with kayaking?
Are you talking a whitewater kayak or a sea kayak or some type of inflatable kayak?
Is there any white water on any part of these rivers, and if so what grade? If the grade is high enough I wouldn't even consider a sea or inflatable kayak.
If you have gear to transport then I'd go with a canoe with float bags. Now you're equipped to handle w/w better than with a sea or inflatable kayak and you have more cargo room.
The benefit of a kayak is the closed deck on top, which keeps water out and which enables you to roll the kayak if you get flipped. The only people I know who take advantage of rolling a kayak are w/w kayakers. I've only met a few people who kayak with sea kayaks who can roll and that's only because they were gung-ho and learned to do it from w/w boaters. 
A sea kayak might be good if you get choppy waves and you want to keep dry what you have below deck, but if your two rivers are calm enough that you think that you can safely float down them in the dark of the night, then I'm not seeing the sense of a kayak instead of a canoe.


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## CrackbottomLouis

If all you r taking is a bug out bag a two seater kayak would be good. I have one for solo camping /fishin river trips. Nice and easily maneuverable by one person. Also lower profile on the water and I can get it going at a good clip without engine noise. Not having a bol I have been toying with the idea of hidin out on a swamp island if need be. Found a few good ones. It would be difficult to get all my gear out there though. Maybe a towable inflatable kayak would help. My musing are rambling now. I need more bug spray.


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## teotwaki

Bobbb said:


> Do you have any experience with kayaking?
> Are you talking a whitewater kayak or a sea kayak or some type of inflatable kayak?
> Is there any white water on any part of these rivers, and if so what grade? If the grade is high enough I wouldn't even consider a sea or inflatable kayak.
> If you have gear to transport then I'd go with a canoe with float bags. Now you're equipped to handle w/w better than with a sea or inflatable kayak and you have more cargo room.
> The benefit of a kayak is the closed deck on top, which keeps water out and which enables you to roll the kayak if you get flipped. The only people I know who take advantage of rolling a kayak are w/w kayakers. I've only met a few people who kayak with sea kayaks who can roll and that's only because they were gung-ho and learned to do it from w/w boaters.
> A sea kayak might be good if you get choppy waves and you want to keep dry what you have below deck, but if your two rivers are calm enough that you think that you can safely float down them in the dark of the night, then I'm not seeing the sense of a kayak instead of a canoe.


Bobb, that thought about the canoe is intriguing. What do you think about making it a 2-man canoe and carrying the gear inside rather than a one man canoe and float bags (extra drag?). A two seater gives you the option to have another person along but maybe it might be harder to maneuver alone. I kayak with a sit on top style but have never tried canoeing.


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## Bobbb

The reason I focus on float bags is that Gator says he intends to navigate these rivers in the dead of night. I've spent a lot of time on all sorts of rivers and I've paddled all sorts of craft, and if I had to navigate a river at night while carrying cargo I would go for the canoe with bags and lash stuff on top of them if I ran out of space in the middle.

I wouldn't take a fiberglass sea kayak out into a dark river where one good crack up on a rock will likely put a crack into the fiberglass. I wouldn't take an inflatable for now we're dealing with rips. I wouldn't take a w/w kayak because of the lack of cargo capacity. I wouldn't take an open canoe because it could get swamped by current and waves.

This is tough to do in an inflatable or sea kayak










Here is a canoe loaded with stuff, but missing float bags:










Here's your tandem canoe with float bags:










It all depends on the particulars of those two rivers that Gator intends to use. I'm just giving general advice with an eye towards unforeseen river obstacles and assuming a bug out bag of more than just a stuff-sack that can fit into the small cargo capacity of a sea kayak.


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## teotwaki

Thanks Bobb! Very thorough answer!


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## Gator

Yeah thanks! It will be the Delaware river which is just a wide river not many rocks of any and I would be traveling a great distance so I figured a kayak would be faster.. And a kayak would be easier to carry but I suppose I could put
Everything in the canoe and get a cart for it.. Still undecided.


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## Bobbb

Gator said:


> Yeah thanks! It will be the Delaware river which is just a wide river not many rocks of any and I would be traveling a great distance so I figured a kayak would be faster.. And a kayak would be easier to carry but I suppose I could put
> Everything in the canoe and get a cart for it.. Still undecided.


You know the river, I don't. If I was having to make your decision I'd scout every foot of that river from Point A to Point B and then decide accordingly.

Rivers that are wide and flat sometimes have a way of becoming steep and narrow.

Quick image search on the Delaware River (I don't have clue as to WHERE on the river these images were taken.)










Notice the risk that these people are taking by going through rapids without wearing a helmet. They wouldn't ride their bikes without a helmet but here where the risk of head injury is far, far greater, they are without head protection. I've scrapped my head on river bottoms many times, and my helmet shows the marks.

Here's one photo of the Delaware somewhere in New Jersey:










Here's another section (don't know where)


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## Gator

Those pictures are taken up at the gap, which I have canoed at before.. But here is more of what I'd have to deal with.


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## Bobbb

I'm assuming that your photos show the river somewhere near where you put in and if the river stays like this for your entire journey, then most any type of river craft would do you well. You can see my point though, about needing to scout the entire river from put-in to take-out to make sure that your boat can handle the river conditions. It does no good for you to be prepared to handle the conditions that you show with your pictures and then 20 miles downstream run into a narrowing canyon and white water and then rapids interspersed for the next 60 miles.

Another point you may want to kick around is to gauge your comfort level with the river during inclement weather. When you have to bug-out you have to bug-out and if there is a storm taking place, then what? Are you still good to go? Are you still good to go with the river craft that you've invested in? Does the river freeze? If so, then what?


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## Gator

Well this is just one idea I'm kicking around for another contingency plan to GOOD and this would be my most ideal situation. I plan on bugging in and then having this as a back up for when the time is right, I already have an escape route via land that is mapped out to get out in a hurry if bugging in is not an option. Just want alternatives and the river would be the best way to get to my BOL as well as avoiding dangerous high density areas.

Also the river only widens from where I am to where I need to be. 

So I am still torn between a kayak or a canoe, I just feel the canoe would take me much longer thus exposing me to possible hazardous weather conditions. But the up side would be much more
Storage space and the possibility of a passenger to "man the guns" or even taking turns with rowing.


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## Bobbb

Gator said:


> Well this is just one idea I'm kicking around for another contingency plan to GOOD and this would be my most ideal situation. I plan on bugging in and then having this as a back up for when the time is right, I already have an escape route via land that is mapped out to get out in a hurry if bugging in is not an option. Just want alternatives and the river would be the best way to get to my BOL as well as avoiding dangerous high density areas.
> 
> Also the river only widens from where I am to where I need to be.
> 
> So I am still torn between a kayak or a canoe, I just feel the canoe would take me much longer thus exposing me to possible hazardous weather conditions. But the up side would be much more
> Storage space and the possibility of a passenger to "man the guns" or even taking turns with rowing.


That sounds pretty solid to me. Gather your intelligence on the river and how it looks at various times of the year. Weigh swiftness against cargo capacity.

Why not rent a kayak and canoe and paddle the river from Point A to Point B and see how your comfort level is with each, how much you can carry, scout the river from on the river and then decide.


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## Gator

Thanks that's exactly what I'm going to do. There is an old civil war fort along the way in the middle of the river.. Would make an interesting place to hold up for a few days.

But again thanks for the advice!


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## Padre

I think you might want to look at a sea kayak designed for fishing. I have one that has a maximum load capacity north of 500 lbs, has both on deck and below deck storage areas, a small water tight container, and a wide extra stable design. Its lower to the water than a Kayak meaning you are less likely to be seen and provide a smaller target if you are seen, and comes in subdued colors for hunting. Its a sit on top design which is really stable and drains any water that gets into your sitting area, and as a result the below deck compartment is completely isolated from the elements by a rubber hatch, unlike a canoe or covered style kayak. Also the sit on top design makes it easy to get in and out of (or to roll out of if someone starts shooting at you from shore). Also, paddling alone I think a kayak paddle gives you a lot more control and speed than a canoe paddle. 

Also although not designed for it, there is room, if you are light, for a passenger if you needed in the on deck storage bin.

Any way you should take a look at one, I love mine.


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## CrackbottomLouis

Go to youtube look up ocean kayak torque motorized fishing kayak. Dont know how to post a link from my phone but I think you'll like it.
Had to come edit with a thought. Dont know much bout solar but I wonder if you could mount a panel on the front and also use the battery in down times for ham comms. The motor being electric seemed relly quiet another plus.
the more i read about this thing the more i want one


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## Jason

Gator-just playing devil's advocate here. Seems to me you'd be a big old target in the middle of the river, even at night. Night vision equipment really isn't that exotic anymore and it'd be really hard to run truly silent and remain hidden in the middle of the night. Marauders could even have motion sensing lights on the shore or moored to a boat ot on the water.

This brings up the bigger point of whether or not anyone can truly hide out anywhere on the run and that all you can do is try your best and be just a little smarter than those around you. Also this is why I plan on bugging in if possible, which Gator says is also his preferred plan. Nobody knows my land like me and my family and I don't know any other place like I do my home.

Back to the OP, I'd be pretty desperate to go over water like that, but you say it's a last ditch effort, and I commend you for exploring all of your options.


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## webeable

Would concider a canoe with an electric motor, would move you fast enough in open water to get the HOD. Solar charger to charge battery on a layover or when relaxing. Could fins car batteries to use to move along but wouldn't last long. A set of ballon tires would make easy to move on land, place on top of canoe when in water.


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## Boomy

I made my cart out of a second hand golf caddy wheels for under $20









On the whole fishing kayak thing I'd look at a 13' - 15' yak. The longer the easier the paddle. The shorter the easier to maneuver. The suggestion on the Torque zips along much faster than you would think and totally silent. Downside you have to transport the heavy battery along with your gear. I have a couple of yaks and for your purpose I'd go with a 15' with a hatch where you could have your BOB pre-stowed and dry even if you flipped....

BOV combo pack...


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## RoadRash

Love it I may need a kayak or canoe for BOL really has me thinking the ability to get offshore n fish would be great and some exercise!!!!


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## Boomy

roadrash said:


> Love it I may need a kayak or canoe for BOL really has me thinking the ability to get offshore n fish would be great and some exercise!!!!











We catch these only 1/4 mile off the beach. 6' shark too....


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## sailaway

teotwaki said:


> Bobb, that thought about the canoe is intriguing. What do you think about making it a 2-man canoe and carrying the gear inside rather than a one man canoe and float bags (extra drag?). A two seater gives you the option to have another person along but maybe it might be harder to maneuver alone. I kayak with a sit on top style but have never tried canoeing.


Teo, you can use a 2 seater backwards, sit back wards in the bow end seat and have the stern go down stream first. This puts you a little more forward in the canoe. Makes it easier to navigate. Get a boy scout canoeing merit badge manual and learn the basics, J stroke and Draw stroke.

I think the dry bag suggestion was ment to keep them in the canoe, but keep everything dry incase it flipped.

This reminds me of the Great Escape with Steve McQueen, two escapees hopped in a row boat and went down a river fishing right past a Nazi Patrol along the bank.


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## gaspump86

I have been considering this option as well. 
Im in NE FL. About 5 minutes from the St Johns river. It is one of two rivers in the world that flow north. Their is a plethora of remote places we could go. 
I would use a 16' canoe but for added stability I would add an outrigger /pontoon system. Slows you down a Tad, but is well worth it with the added the stability. 
So a 16' outriggered camo canoe, 
2 person capacity + two fully loaded large Alice Ruck sacks with :
Shelter, food & water, 1st aid & hygiene, tools, fire & light, comms, extra clothes, cooking gear, fishing kit, maps & nav gear
And obviously each person with a primary & secondary weapon system


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