# How would you advise the not-yet-prepared prepper caught by a financial collapse?



## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

So much prepper advice seems to presume lots of time, money, and energy. Let's discuss what to do when a person is limited on all three.

So let's play a game. Your friend that you met through the Internet is an out-of-shape IT worker with chronic fatigue and a family of four. He makes $65k/year and has average living expenses. He has some car debt, a mortgage and a little credit card debt. He started prepping a few years ago but sickness has held him back. You recommended several books on prepping, homesteading, food preservation, foraging, medical, self-defense, etc. He obtained these and has read some of them. He's started a small garden in his back yard, about 150 square feet, and has begun to get a few small pieces of produce off of it. Not enough to live on, but enough to understand the basics. His wife has done a little canning and drying and cooking from scratch. His kids are too young to do much. He went to the range a few times but still has almost no self-defense skills. He's gone fishing once or twice but never hunting. His home is in a suburb that is low-rent but not a slum. So, he has an alarm and camera system. He has relatives with a few acres in rural locations but they are neither preparing nor homesteading. He has a few friends nearby that are also prepping, but they couldn't take him in if there was a long-term crisis.

With the little extra income, he's been able to obtain the following supplies:
* Two week's worth of non-perishable food, water and medications
* A generator
* A few gallons of gas
* Handgun and shotgun with about a hundred rounds each
* Some hand tools
* A water filter
* A camping stove with a few pounds of propane
* One of those heirloom emergency seed cans
* Some extra first aid supplies
* A shortwave receiver
* Some LED flashlights
* Some disposable batteries
* A bicycle with extra parts
* A mid-sized 2WD SUV
* About $3000 in cash

In other words, he's could handle a tornado or a hurricane, but not yet a large economic crisis. And that's precisely what happens; Over three months the dollar's value drops significantly, along with several other currencies. On top of that, the ongoing drought in California and Texas has caused the price of foods to go up three times. It's not Mad Max, but there's rioting, martial law, police checkpoints, and rampant disease. He's going to be out of a good job for a long time. He might be able to do some odd jobs here and there in exchange for supplies. Food is going to remain expensive, credit will dry up, medical care will be spotty, government will lean towards totalitarian (yet police will be overwhelmed in most places), taxes and crime will increase. He lives too far away to help him and you can't take him in. He's decided to move to his relative's house. The alarm/camera system is coming with.

* What are his top 5 priorities? What are the first things he needs to do? Aside from placing his head between his legs and kissing his bottom goodbye  Examples are: Exercise, hunting, trapping, planting, learn self-defense, start foraging, install solar panels, building community, etc. All of these are good, but what are the firsts/biggest priorities?
* What food operations need to happen first? There's a Chinese proverb that says, "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now." Are trees first priority or fast-growing vegetables? How about animal husbandry?
* What does he buy right away? His $3000 is now worth an equivalent of about $1000.

(By the way, this doesn't describe me. Some parts do, but I've changed enough details so that it does not. But it's something I think about regularly, since I'm not ready yet.)


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

I'd say his top 5 priorities are:
* Get to know those in his new community
* Exercising
* Getting slow-growing crops started
* Trapping
* Self-defense

I'd say the first things food-wise that go in are fast-growing fruit trees (or vines?) and chickens or ducks.

I'd say he buys with his remaining cash the fruit trees/vines and chicks/ducklings, enough material to make several wire snares, two mutt puppies off CraigsList, more shotgun shells, a bullet-resistant vest and a DVD on self-defense techniques.

Agree? Disagree?


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

Changed the original post from saying the dollar is worthless to saying it's only worth about 1/3rd the original. Without any cash, how can you buy anything?


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think he has to bug in. That means being able to block all the light coming from his windows when necessary. Having at least one person awake and armed at all times after the collapse. Being able to block a door shut with a dresser or other heavy furniture.

The guy should take out a 401k loan. Enough to buy a year's supply of food and water for him and his family. He needs a way to heat his home and cook his food. Either he needs a wood stove and a lot of wood. Or he needs kerosene cooking stoves, kerosene heaters, and a lot of stored kerosene in his attached garage. Or buried in the backyard.

If he can't get the 401k loan he needs to sell as much unnecessary stuff as possible starting with his generator. Take the cash and his other savings to buy food, water, and other supplies. I consider a year's supply of food and water to be the minimum. He would also need hundreds of candles. Battery operated lights take too many batteries to be practical. Kerosene lamps are good too.

We have 5 gallon buckets with snap-on toilet seat lids to use as toilets. Plus literally a ton of kitty litter to help cover the smell. 

We have two cats. I expect to take in others from the shelter when it closes. We have 360 5.5 ounce cans of wet food and about 21 bags of 18.5 lbs of dry food each. I think it takes about 3 bags of dry food per cat per year. So we already have enough for about 7. I really don't want 8 cats in the house after it hits the fan but I can't let them all die at the shelter either when that time comes.


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

Good answer. So what does he do after a year, if this thing rumbles on for five years?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

cdevidal said:


> ... What are his top 5 priorities? What are the first things he needs to do? ...


Find a great Guardian for his children because he will not be alive to raise them.


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Find a great Guardian for his children because he will not be alive to raise them.


From the original post: "Aside from placing his head between his legs and kissing his bottom goodbye "


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

By the way, this doesn't describe me. Some parts do, but I've changed enough details so that it does not. But it's something I think about regularly, since I'm not ready yet.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

How would you advise the not-yet-prepared prepper caught by a financial collapse???

Uh, well, let me see; wait; hold on.

Okay; I'm NOT even going there.

Psst. Crickets? What planet have THEY been living on for 5 years??


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

cdevidal said:


> From the original post: "Aside from placing his head between his legs and kissing his bottom goodbye "


He's over weight.

Has health issues.

Knows which end of the gun the bullet comes out but that just about all he knows.

Has 2 weeks worth of food for his family.

Lost his employment and cash on hand is worth a 1/3.

IMHO I see no 1 thing let alone 5 that will reverse the outcome. He'll die, wife soon after, leaving the children to fend for their own or become slaves. Guardian for the children IMHO is his only option.

P.S. I thought of one other thing he could do. Check his family in at the local FEMA camp.


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## cdevidal (May 17, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> He's over weight.
> 
> Has health issues.
> 
> ...


Fair assessment. I'm a little better off than this hypothetical fellow but not by much. Good motivation though.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

First the good news: the lights are still on, there is no war and his mortgage is 1/3 of what it was in real terms. Unless something else goes wrong his problems are rising expenses and too little income.

He needs to begin slashing expenses and immediately apply for every government assistance program he qualifies for. Then he should apply for disability status upon unemployment. He should avoid the 401(k) loan but if he winds up unemployed as expected, withdraw the funds and be prepared to accept the penalty.

He should update his resume and start checkng job boards. If he winds up unemployed he will have a head start on his job search. His wfe should also look for a job.

Then he should start doing all the rest of the stuff suggested in this thread.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

cdevidal said:


> Good answer. So what does he do after a year, if this thing rumbles on for five years?


By then most people will be dead. He'll have to learn to hunt and fish. Hopefully he'll have a garden where he can grow potatoes. He'll have to move to a house with a wood stove. The dead neighbors could have a lot of furniture to burn for heat.


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## NHPrepper2 (Jun 2, 2012)

Bahahaha. Helpful responses abound! 

You can turn this scenario around. Your ancient Chinese proverb could be twisted to say "The best time to start preparing was 20 years ago, the second best time is right now." 

A lot of my strategy would depend on location, age of family, friends/fellow peppers in vicinity, etc... That said, my general opinion if you were planning on staying put, would be:
Water 
--Tarps/barrels to catch rain water".
--Locate natural springs, waterways close
--Have some storage at home.

Shelter/Location
--If you do not have, get wood stove.
--Consider bringing in a friend/family member. Numbers...
--Plant your long term fruit/nut trees (pretty cheap, why not)
--Plant your garden 

Food
--Get a dozen chickens
--Consider preservation...canning equip and tons of jars/lids.
--long term grains, legumes, rice...buy Mylar and O2 absorbers.
--Increase food storage as much as you can...we'll rounded strategy.

Books/Tools
--Are you an active Gardner? If not, books on local area and all aspects of gardening.
--Books on canning, local wild plants, etc... Invaluable in long term scenario.
--On budget, concentrate on inexpensive tools you will NEED like duct tape, rope, nails, basic hand tools.
--Chainsaw

Could keep going, but I need to refill my coffee and get the kids a drink. Sounds like your scenario guy knows where he is at in giving a decent assessment. Has a good short term start and is pursuing growing storage/supplies to cover long term events. This was/is true everybody here at one point. My advise would be not to let it take over your life. Although prudent to plan, it is very likely nothing long term in nature will happen in your lifetime. In other words, don't cash in your ROTH and 401ks to get 50 tons of rice tomorrow...


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

My advice:

1.) Get busy, while the gettin's good, like yesterday!


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Debt free-stress free-better health, period*

Like Geek999 said,before he even buys a flashlight he has to ELIMINATE all debts or expenses,sell what is useless not needed for daily living and replace it with the real survival tools,learn skills like food preservation,growing food,etc,things that will be useful in any event,many out there are making an above normal wage salary but they also have an above spending habit,all anybody has to do is look at the daily news and look at the high rollers now living like paupers.
Beware of little expenses. A small leak will sink a great ship.
Benjamin Franklin


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

readytogo said:


> Like Geek999 said,before he even buys a flashlight he has to ELIMINATE all debts or expenses,sell what is useless not needed for daily living and replace it with the real survival tools,learn skills like food preservation,growing food,etc,things that will be useful in any event,many out there are making an above normal wage salary but they also have an above spending habit,all anybody has to do is look at the daily news and look at the high rollers now living like paupers.
> Beware of little expenses. A small leak will sink a great ship.
> Benjamin Franklin


Thanks for the reference, but that isn't quite what I said.

I said he needed to reduce expenses, but not necessarily debt. Financial problems take many forms, but the form described is inflationary.

Under this scenario the debt is resolving itself for our protagonist. He should worry about expenses, not debt.

If the financial collapse took a deflationary form, then you would want to eliminate the debt ASAP, but that is not the scenario described.

Now if you were to ask what should be done prior to a financial collapse that will take an unknown form, I would say reduce the debt to reduce the risk. However, in the scenario described, we have already progressed to the point where inflation is underway.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

My advice is to enjoy the prepping. Take some training to build skills. Join a local ambulance squad to build your medical skills. Start a garden to build those skills. There are many things you can do to prep that cost little to nothing. You can't do what you can't do so figure out what you can do and do that.

Trees are fine if you plan to bug in but will do you little good if you have to leave. 

Just keep plugging along. Keep your emergency cash and if possible increase it. Get out of debt.


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## vidarr (Jun 25, 2013)

To sum up what I took from your scenario, our friend has;
-poor health
-basic skill set with no specialty
-a decent start on important equipment/supplies
-very limited funds. 
-will be moving into a multi-acre property with relatives 

First, sell off all unnecessary property, and trade what you can't for items of value. 

Second, once at your relatives, begin building your garden, while looking for odd jobs. A garden centre/nursery will have crop plants already producing. Invest some cash in these to have a small, but immediate food source. Be sure to collect and preserve seeds from this initial crop for replanting, and start this indoors asap. Find plans, and recycle materials to build multiple green houses to increase food production. 

Form a community to assist in building these greenhouses, and set up a water collection system. Expand onto neighbouring properties if able. 

The wife should form a small group to assist with preserving a portion of the crop. 

Lastly, improve your skills in areas that are lacking, and overall physical fitness(which will come naturally with the gardening and construction/available jobs) 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

His mortgage would NOT go down when the value of a dollar dropped. The mortgage is a contract that will adhere to the original terms, barring government intervention. However, everything else went up in price so his mortgage is 3X as hard to pay now due to need for money elsewhere. 

His relatives will NOT be happy to see him, and will probably give him the boot. I would, unless he could produce more than he costs me. 

If he is out of work, it is all over but admitting it. No way out. 

Doesn't matter how carefully he spends what little he has, it won't pay the mortgage and keep them fed, let alone heat for winter, utility bills, and preps too? Not a snowball's chance. 

He must get some income coming in, or it is over.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

machinist said:


> His mortgage would NOT go down when the value of a dollar dropped. The mortgage is a contract that will adhere to the original terms, barring government intervention. However, everything else went up in price so his mortgage is 3X as hard to pay now due to need for money elsewhere.
> 
> His relatives will NOT be happy to see him, and will probably give him the boot. I would, unless he could produce more than he costs me.
> 
> ...


You are both correct and incorrect on the impact of inflation. The mortgage is a contract that requires him to pay back dollars. The implication of the dollar dropping is everything is worth 3X as many dollars. In real value terms the mortgage is now 1/3 of what it was, albeit the dollar amount has not changed.

This says nothing about his difficulty in obtaining the dollars to meet that payment, but it is one payment that will be static in dollar terms. Paying the mortgage off doesn't help with his escalating expenses, and in fact eliminates flexibility as any cash devoted in that direction is no longer available for anything else.

I don't want to get into the position of encouraging debt, but at the same time I am trying to stick to the scenario presented. He has a problem, but the mortgage isn't anywhere near the top of the list. Making sure he has cash for expenses and holding those expenses down is the challenge.

For instance, he could spend all his cash paying down his mortgage, lose his job, and now he needs food. Oops.

Of course, with a different scenario, the advice could be reversed, so it is important to understand the context. Some of the folks here think they understand what a financial collapse would look like, but it could take many different forms. In the OP the form was specified. With a different form of financial collapse completely different steps might make sense.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Geek, 

That's what I meant. With escalating expenses, if he has no job his money won't last long. No amount of cost cutting can fix that. He doesn't have time for a garden to grow before he will be out of money, IMHO. 

I did not see any estimate of his monthly expenditures, but I know what mine are and they are very low. But, I've had 40 years to get my expenses down to rock bottom. This guy has not had that much time and he is only beginning to think that way. 

I say he is screwed, but good. 

In such an environment, he needs to unload that white elephant of a house in the worst way, but there is slim chance of that with 3 to 1 devaluation. Then he would need housing and the price of it would be up. He needed to downsize his spending years before, and I firmly believe that at this point it is too late to do that.

The depression we are in now began a long time ago, the trigger events being may as far back as the dot com bubble, or at least the housing bubble popping. I've seen discretionary spending cut to the bone (customers of my machine shop) and it did not keep many people in the situation described in the OP from losing everything. There are a lot of vacant houses in our area with the white foreclosure paper posted in the front window. All those people thought they were doing it just right, too.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

cdevidal said:


> So much prepper advice seems to presume lots of time, money, and energy. Let's discuss what to do when a person is limited on all three.
> 
> With the little extra income, he's been able to obtain the following supplies:
> 
> ...


Interesting challenge! I culled the post to the list of what they have.

Two weeks of food/water. GREAT!!! They have already planned two weeks ahead of most folks! Start rationing in an event. I bet you can get another week, or at least a few days out of it.

Generator and gas. Not a necessity, more of a nuisance or luxury. What are you going to run? Lights or a freezer? Sell them if you can right off, or TRADE for food! Sheeple will NEED the security of electricity. Lose electricity? FEAST on what is in the refrigerator. Next day FEAST on what is in the freezer. Slim times are a coming, but they still have two weeks supplies.

Home protection, good investment. Right off, let the family know what they are, who is going to use them, and have a backup person. Don't hide, INFORM!

Hand tools. Gather them up, and teach others what they are for.

Water filter. Another plus!! Teach everyone what it/they are and how to use it/them. Start collecting any water you can.

Camping stove. Another good one! Remember though, all canned goods can be eaten cold, warming them up may be a luxury. I'd use yard debris and a small fire first, save that for a backup.

Can of seeds. Could go either way. Have they ever actually planted a seed and grown something to harvest? If not, garbage. If they have, are the seeds things they would eat? They could have a ton of corn seeds, and try planting them in January, crapola. Or peas in July, not going to happen. It is also going to take a while for them to grow to harvest. If 2 weeks is all they have other than that, they are sunk.

First aid, always good! But they need food and water first.

Short wave, LED's and batteries. Short term great! After two weeks of food/water, not so great. I would try to trade the lighting and batteries right off for food. Radio could be good to hold onto.

Bicycle. Where are you going to go? That is going to get one person and a backpack somewhere and back again. If it can be used for that great! If not, get rid of it early to panickers for food or supplies.

SUV. Is there a place planned where it will get them, their family, and stuff somewhere? If not, they are going to be parked on the highways like everyone else. Maybe turn it into a storage thing? The battery will power 12 volt lights. Oil, gas, grease and plastic/rubber will burn.

Cash. Always a good backup!!!! Remember though, IF YOU DO NOT HOLD IT, YOU DO NOT OWN IT. In that first day or two when ATM's or banks stop, it is worth $3,000. Maybe more, never less. Even in the first few days when the Govt announces green is gone, BLUE is the new currency, Green is going to be in demand. You might not be able to trade it with a bank, but everyone else will still want green! How long is it going to take to get Blue into circulation AND accepted? Green has been the world standard since 1913, EVERYONE has some, it is not going to disappear overnight. PM's will come into play, later.

I'd say your theoretical friend is doing better then they thought.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

cdevidal said:


> So much prepper advice seems to presume lots of time, money, and energy. Let's discuss what to do when a person is limited on all three.
> 
> * What does he buy right away? His $3000 is now worth an equivalent of about $1000.


I don't think its helpful to suggest that the man despairs. Things are tough but the character you just described is better of than 50-75% of Americans.

So here would be my strategy.

First and foremost he probably won't survive alone. So the first thing to do is to think about family and friends who might have the means of supporting themselves and need extra labor and/or security.... Networking through churches, business associates, and prepper groups might be helpful here. This is something he can and should be thinking about even before a SHTF like loosing a job so this isn't my first action, but perhaps its the most important one.

So here we go with the real list:
A) In a hyper-inflation I would recommend that he spend every cent he has.

These are the sort of things I would consider essentials: 
1) Foodstuffs like flour, rice, pasta, etc.
2) Water filters/storage.
3) Guinea pigs, rabbits, and/or any other animal the reproduces quickly. 
4) Gas, gas up your vehicles and then don't us them until you need to.
5) Seeds and garden supplies
6) Some more ammo.

B) Once you have spent your cash, and savings, spend your credit, unsecured credit can't be repossessed or foreclosed on, the punishment for not paying it back is poor credit ratings and the inability to get more credit. Now some might say it is immoral to take out money you have no ability to repay, but there is always a possibility you could get a job, there is also the REAL possibility if inflation continues, that you could pay off your credit with inflated, worthless, dollars. However, in the end analysis it seems to me that lax credit policies will likely cause a collapse and so the banks should suffer for insanely offering credit to those who can not repay.

C) Once you have gathered as many supplies as you can into one place you need to decide if you can stick things out in your home. If you have access to a reliable water source (not town water), land for growing, and have good neighbors, and some level of security in your area you may make a go of it in place, otherwise (returning to the first consideration) you might want to considered bugging out.

D) once you find a place to try to make it work, plan a escape strategy, just in case, complete with bug out bag. You need this even if you have already bugged out.

E) Start breeding your rabbits or the like, working on your garden, and working with your neighbors on security.

F) Pray.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Limited Cash*

He needs to buy a lot of dried Beans, Rice and spam.

I know that he will need other things but he can use the rice beans and spam to barter with for what he lacks later.

He can also buy shelled corn and wheat at the feed mill.

A $25.00 hand grinder will allow him to make bread .

Buy cases of canned vegetables on sale.

Watch for sales on canned tuna , salmon, and corned beef.

50 lbs of rice is $18.00.
50 lbs of corn is $7.00 at the feed mill

Don't waste money on freeze dried foods you can do much better buying regular dried goods and canned meats.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Aside from all the other great advice mentioned...one of the food crops id learn to grow is pumpkin.

It is easy to grow once the plant grows big enough to withstand slugs or snails munching it if those pests are a issue. Pumpkins store well for MONTHS..if stored properly, are super nutritious pretty hardy and easy to grow. One pumpkin can feed several folks, combine it with rice and eggs from laying hens would make meals for his family. It may get boring to eat but it would be filling. 

Potates are easy to grow as well and would add bulk to meals at least...

Id get some real good reference books on wild food to forage for his area as well and make it a family plan to learning how to identify and at least basic use of one plant a week or whatever works for family depending on how old kids are. Start simple with plants that can be found everywhere..dandelion, cattails, wild raddish, etc...

keep it simple and build up from there...

Water is a priority and muptial ways to filter it ...without the ability to have clean water in 3 days nothing else will matter


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

machinist said:


> Geek,
> 
> That's what I meant. With escalating expenses, if he has no job his money won't last long. No amount of cost cutting can fix that. He doesn't have time for a garden to grow before he will be out of money, IMHO.
> 
> ...


Is the house really a white elephant? That 3 to 1 devaluation of the dollar means housing prices are going up, not down, albeit if unemployment is widespread it may be hard to find a buyer. Can he rent out rooms? Provide storage for someone? Double up with family members? There are lots of alternatives. Right now his mortgage is fixed, but if he sells and now has to pay rent, the rent may go up every year.

I'd like to reiterate that I am responding this way only because that is the way the OP set up the scenario. We could have a financial collapse that is deflationary instead of inflationary or even one where the dollar was not changing significantly in value.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Woody said:


> Interesting challenge! I culled the post to the list of what they have.
> 
> Two weeks of food/water. GREAT!!! They have already planned two weeks ahead of most folks! Start rationing in an event. I bet you can get another week, or at least a few days out of it.
> 
> ...


There is nothing in the scenario as presented by the OP to cause the ATMs to stop. In addition, with the dollar having dropped in value there is no reason for the government to replace the currency. The government is in debt but the debt is in dollars and the dollar is shrinking in value, shrinking the government debt.

This isn't the scenario presented.


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## Norse (Jan 30, 2010)

There is no absolute preparation for economic collapse.......it brings so many variables it is impossible to be prepared for them all.

One thing is for sure.....

1.The ability to defend yourself and possibly remain isolated for long periods are of the most importance.....because if someone looting maggot/maggots want what they know you have......being dead or looted you have already failed!

2. A renewable clean water supply. 

3.A food supply you don't have risk exposure to procure. 

4. Stick to the basics. Persistence in procuring 1-3 is of the utmost importance.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Norse said:


> There is no absolute preparation for economic collapse.......it brings so many variables it is impossible to be prepared for them all.
> 
> One thing is for sure.....
> 
> ...


1. The OP did say there was some rioting, so it could spread and crime could also increase, so the ability to defend oneself makes sense, but I wouldn't hyperventilate about it.

2. There is nothing in the OP to suggest a risk to the water supply.

3. Nothing wrong with a food supply, but there is nothing to suggest any breakdown of delivery systems at this time, so it is of the same importance as it would be in any other emergency.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

cdevidal said:


> So much prepper advice seems to presume lots of time, money, and energy. Let's discuss what to do when a person is limited on all three.


In my opinion Like ALL *ASS-U-ME--tions* that would be incorrect. I started prepping at age 17. At the time money was not what I would call abundant. Over the next forty years I have seen all income levels but I've always managed to be prepping on one level or another. Knowledge and skill are the number one asset of any preppier survivalist self sustaining homesteader. Knowledge information costs very little. The internet and the library are infinite sources of knowledge and information. Both are free. But it sounds as if your friend is half assed. As an example


cdevidal said:


> You recommended several books on prepping, homesteading, food preservation, foraging, medical, self-defense, etc. He obtained these and has read some of them.


Why were all those not read, studied, memorized and practiced? Because he is half assed? If the excuse is he does not have time but has a TV he turns on he is lying. He can learn how to build a fire or watch CSi which does he do? In fact if he has cable and claims he does not have the money for preps that is also a lie. The real question is; Does his need to watch make believe on TV supersede learning how to save his family lives?



cdevidal said:


> So let's play a game.


IMHO, This of course is the crux of the problem and most likely the explanation for half assed. This *IS NOT* a game, what he does now determines if his family his loved ones will live or die. If those he cherishes the most will endure slow agonizing deaths of starvation and deprivation? Vulgar screaming diseased deaths of oozing puss and delirium because he could not take care of them. Or will they die howling in horror maimed, mutilated, raped and murdered because he could not defend them?

Maybe if he envisions what it will be like staring into the eyes of a three year old child pleading for death to make the pain stop, his questions will be answered.

That may seem over dramatic unkind and too harsh, cruel even but maybe that is what your friend needs the most. Get his priorities in order


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

I apologize because I think many who contribute are sincere and their recommendations are excellent, but something is missing. Last fall I engaged in a conversation with a gentleman who had a few years before lost his father-in-law. The father-in-law had died in bed freezing to death when his oil burner ran out of fuel. The ironic thing is it was discovered that he had $200K in a nearby bank. Along with food and water preppers in much of the nation will suffer the same fate if they do not find a way to keep warm for a large portion of the year I thank you for everything I am learning. Please figure out how you will not only survive summer, spring , and fall - but winter as well.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*"Financial Prudence"*

The question been,How would you advise the not-yet-prepared prepper caught by a financial collapse?.
If you are caught in a financial collapse, is too late, the key is not to get caught and the question is. What to do to avoid getting caught in a financial collapse or for that matter prevention off. The answer simple, is called "financial prudence" eating less with your eyes than with your mouth, controlling your desires and urges, in other words,the gluttony to own what you really don`t need or can maintain ,like that big house that you are never in because you have to work all day to pay for it or the big truck that just takes you to work or the store or the 300 channel cable TV that you can only watch one or maybe don`t have time because you work all the time to pay for all those things that you don`t need, is actually a circle, that eventually leads to failure. If you read your history you will find out that it was the dirt poor farmer that fed the Wall Street boys during the great depression, he had the apples and the eggs and the cow and goat and a root cellar full of tubers .No a big home or the latest Ford car or credit cards full of nothing, except IOU`s with interest, so my humble opinion here is for prudence and a real life inventory of what you need and can do without and one important thing, forget about what the Joneses have and take care number one,YOU,


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## skl727 (Jul 10, 2014)

While I'm not doing my prepping as I should, the thought process is the same. Most of the comments have me thinking more of the financial collapse aspect, than anything else. If this is the case, the Great Depression showed that debt was only relative to distance. If you owed money to someone outside your local community, it really wasn't a collectable note. Unless Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citi and Santander, (to name a few) have been looking to employing a private military, whose going to collect? The courts and legal system are going to be overwhelmed. Mortgages and rental collections will only happen when you have a local presence or live in or close to the dwelling, not by a REIT or Ivy league management company that is holding paper across the country or world. So real world skills, local farming (even joining co-ops), and any other pre-Industrial knowledge are going to be the currency.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

skl727 said:


> While I'm not doing my prepping as I should, the thought process is the same. Most of the comments have me thinking more of the financial collapse aspect, than anything else. If this is the case, the Great Depression showed that debt was only relative to distance. If you owed money to someone outside your local community, it really wasn't a collectable note. Unless Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citi and Santander, (to name a few) have been looking to employing a private military, whose going to collect? The courts and legal system are going to be overwhelmed. Mortgages and rental collections will only happen when you have a local presence or live in or close to the dwelling, not by a REIT or Ivy league management company that is holding paper across the country or world. So real world skills, local farming (even joining co-ops), and any other pre-Industrial knowledge are going to be the currency.


I think you underestimate the ability of large financial institutions to collect. You may be able to stiff them once, but don't plan on getting credit again for a very long time.

I think you'll be surprised how stiffing a bank will impact you and the variety of ways poor credit can interfere with your life. You can restore credit by cleaning up debts, but until you do, it follows you.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> I think you underestimate the ability of large financial institutions to collect. You may be able to stiff them once, but don't plan on getting credit again for a very long time.
> 
> I think you'll be surprised how stiffing a bank will impact you and the variety of ways poor credit can interfere with your life. You can restore credit. By cleaning up debts, but until you do, it follows you.


Not to mention that many employers and landlords run credit checks.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Not to mention that many employers and landlords run credit checks.


Exactly the kind of thing I was referring to and you still owe the money after getting turned down for the job or home.


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## skl727 (Jul 10, 2014)

Geek999 said:


> I think you underestimate the ability of large financial institutions to collect. You may be able to stiff them once, but don't plan on getting credit again for a very long time.
> 
> I think you'll be surprised how stiffing a bank will impact you and the variety of ways poor credit can interfere with your life. You can restore credit by cleaning up debts, but until you do, it follows you.


I think that the collection ability is a mighty force, currently. but with a catastrophic collapse, which is more like dominoes falling, most of the institutions don't have real time assets available to withstand it. We as a civilization have accepted wire assignments of mortgages and other similar ways of moving debt to other hands without them actually incurring any physical movement of goods or services. Nowadays we have corporations, sit at a computer and analyses the good/bad aspects of the notes and then they electronically bundle these for electronic sale to some other institution. They don't even sit in the same room to sign the transfer and pass money or services to the other party. These filings are then transmitted to the local government "Registry of Deeds".

So my thoughts are that with a financial collapse, comes a revaluation of our currency, which now also makes the collection of the supposed debt to be based on the new currency, not in the contracted debt you may have. So along with the corporate infighting of these "secured" debt ownership notes, if say the new currency is 10 old dollars = 1 new dollar, so if $10k is what it costs to foreclose in current dollars, now is $100k in new currency, to collect, (on say your contracted debt of $80k) what company has the ability to sustain and survive those collection rates? Now add in the hundreds of thousand of similar transactions, trying to be filed into the legal system at the same time, along with the consumer saying they want to see the signed transfers between those companies to prove ownership of the notes, what is the downside to a bad credit rating? Nobody has any money or credit.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Caribou said:


> Not to mention that many employers and landlords run credit checks.


Heck, they run credit checks for car insurance! Have bad credit? Then you pay more.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

skl727 said:


> I think that the collection ability is a mighty force, currently. but with a catastrophic collapse, which is more like dominoes falling, most of the institutions don't have real time assets available to withstand it. We as a civilization have accepted wire assignments of mortgages and other similar ways of moving debt to other hands without them actually incurring any physical movement of goods or services. Nowadays we have corporations, sit at a computer and analyses the good/bad aspects of the notes and then they electronically bundle these for electronic sale to some other institution. They don't even sit in the same room to sign the transfer and pass money or services to the other party. These filings are then transmitted to the local government "Registry of Deeds".
> 
> So my thoughts are that with a financial collapse, comes a revaluation of our currency, which now also makes the collection of the supposed debt to be based on the new currency, not in the contracted debt you may have. So along with the corporate infighting of these "secured" debt ownership notes, if say the new currency is 10 old dollars = 1 new dollar, so if $10k is what it costs to foreclose in current dollars, now is $100k in new currency, to collect, (on say your contracted debt of $80k) what company has the ability to sustain and survive those collection rates? Now add in the hundreds of thousand of similar transactions, trying to be filed into the legal system at the same time, along with the consumer saying they want to see the signed transfers between those companies to prove ownership of the notes, what is the downside to a bad credit rating? Nobody has any money or credit.


If a financial institution fails that does not extinguish your debt. In cleaning up the failing institution your debt is sold to another financial institution, or some other party. You still owe the money. Inflation or deflation can make that debt easier or more difficult to repay, but you may not be able to tell in advance which will occur.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Don't you wonder if the hold up for collapsing the current currency isn't in part related to the wrangling over how old debt will be collected? I don't think any of the powers that be want to or will come out holding the dirty end of the stick. Good luck to all of us.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

It wouldn't surprise me if after the collapse Obama gives Hawaii and/or Iowa to the Chinese.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

BillS said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if after the collapse Obama gives Hawaii and/or Iowa to the Chinese.


Missouri would conquer Chiowa in about 8-12 hours flat.


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## skl727 (Jul 10, 2014)

The initial post seems to be based on a singular financial hardship. I am thinking towards a catastrophic financial collapse. When you look at the countries climbing debt numbers and our continuing to print dollars, how long can this be sustained? 

We are not on the "Gold Standard" or even the "Bretton Woods Agreement", which took us off the "Gold Standard" and pegged the worlds economy on the US dollar. We have gone from being the leader in world trade and the country with the largest gold deposits to currency factor, to a country beholden to foreign interests. Yet, we still print dollars to export to other countries to help them stave off financial ruin. We also seem to have no problem shipping missiles, planes, wheat and intellectual properties around the globe, with the promise that they will pay us back. We have set our selves up as a poorly run and organized money launderer. China etal, gives us money to support our system, then with our wide-eyes we see a problem outside our borders and ship money and materials there, for future repayment. When our lenders are looking for the payment, do you think they are going to accept the IOU's we've accumulated as payment or the goodwill? Then look at our current immigration faux pas and inaction to a real problem, and decide if the people at the helm have any idea how to correct our own nation Costa Concordia running into the shoals.

If you are self-sufficient, you will have nothing to worry about. Stop depending on the government and stop asking for hand-outs. If folks would stop depending on the government and give them a check or handout, we would not be where we are now. Take your current savings and start buying "hard goods" and long term consumables. Weekly or monthly purchases of water purification items and seeds or seedlings. No need for much money (only to pay taxes) when you are self-sufficient. You can be self-sufficient with 1/2 acre or less. Start bartering and learning where to get things local. Buy at the Farmer's Market and get to know the people that grow your food. Learn to hunt. Learn a trade skill (sewing, building), so that you have more to barter with. Stop spending frivolously. Do your own research and stop relying on the censored news channels for your information. The band wagon will all go down together, don't be on it. Move away from cities or learn to "bug in place". Learn to purify your own water. Build your own solar panels.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*Financial Collapse in the USA.*

Before we go on blaming the goverment for a financial collapse why don`t we take a look at our own spending habits.
http://news.msn.com/us/study-35-percent-in-us-facing-debt-collectors


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## Ozarker (Jul 29, 2014)

cdevidal said:


> So much prepper advice seems to presume lots of time, money, and energy. Let's discuss what to do when a person is limited on all three.
> 
> So let's play a game. Your friend that you met through the Internet is an out-of-shape IT worker with chronic fatigue and a family of four. He makes $65k/year and has average living expenses. He has some car debt, a mortgage and a little credit card debt. He started prepping a few years ago but sickness has held him back. You recommended several books on prepping, homesteading, food preservation, foraging, medical, self-defense, etc. He obtained these and has read some of them. He's started a small garden in his back yard, about 150 square feet, and has begun to get a few small pieces of produce off of it. Not enough to live on, but enough to understand the basics. His wife has done a little canning and drying and cooking from scratch. His kids are too young to do much. He went to the range a few times but still has almost no self-defense skills. He's gone fishing once or twice but never hunting. His home is in a suburb that is low-rent but not a slum. So, he has an alarm and camera system. He has relatives with a few acres in rural locations but they are neither preparing nor homesteading. He has a few friends nearby that are also prepping, but they couldn't take him in if there was a long-term crisis.
> 
> ...


First, I'd say you have done well, you're ahead of most in the population.
It sounds that our prepper friend is an unemployed IT guy due to a medical problem, just wondering, if so get work, if not then.....

Before you start growing rabbits in the backyard, I'd begin guarding your financial future to avoid financial problems, another can of beans is not going to buy your gas in a financial downturn. Seems that paranoia runs deep in that a financial crisis will happen overnight, it won't, it takes time just as our past crash did, but it could have gotten worse. What I'm saying is that if the market crashed, the housing bubble popped, China called it's debt and every bank teller in the country had a deadly virus, you won't be buying gas for your car with a piece of gold or ammo or a can of food two weeks later, probably not for months, more likely a year, generally, there will still be an exchange of currency even if the nation backing that currency is broke financially. The Chinese used pieces of animal hides as an IOU that evidenced debt, there was no intrinsic value at all to these small skins nor was the value backed by any treasure of the government, the value was in the promise on faith and they were accepted for goods and services. If everyone accepts pine cones on good faith as an exchange then you will bartering for pine cones (and the south will be wealthy  ).

As long as we are speculating on what ifs in an imaginary world let's assume you are in the top one half of one per cent, you have a few billions. Are you going to sit idle and allow your cash assets to be worthless overnight? I doubt it, especially since these types own the oil, the gas, the power companies, the banks and the most of the food producing activities that we know.....do you really think they are just going to close shop and walk away overnight? Really?

Yes, the stock market crashed and made millionaires poor as a church mouse overnight, did the nation stop using money? No, it was still accepted. Those that didn't have money then had to resort to other means to survive. You seem to be jumping from some financial disaster to the end of financial times having no money, it has never in history worked like that, it's a slow process and there has always been some other economy that was developed.

To avoid financial issues, you need to save and invest your money. You need to reduce debt. You need to reduce your consumption that depletes your cash and financial assets. The best way to be prepared is to be wealthier than you are, you don't have to be a 1% er, it's just that the more you have in cash the better off you'll be in making any transition.

So, as to your priorities, I suggest you attack your financial position first, you should have at least six months living expenses on hand, one year should be the target. Don't spend a thousand dollars on some rifle, learn to invest it and make more money. If you really need a .50 cal later on and the price jumps 5 times due to circumstances, you won't blink an eye at buying two if you really need them.

As to survival you'll first need water, then food, then shelter, beyond that it's the things that make your life easier and more comfortable. I really doubt there will be roving armies killing for the fun of it months after some disaster, that's Hollywood and video game thinking. Can times get rough....absolutely! Instead of thinking, (and following the paranoid) in needing to head to the bunker next Monday, consider the types of circumstances that will effect your well being and the time table that will realistically move you into different phases to ensure your well being. Instead of figuring out how to get by being poor, figure out how not to be poor. That's the first solution to that matter, but that's not saying everyone will succeed in being wealthy (however you might define that) but being better off financially. And, it's not very easy or even possible for everyone to attack that angle, being disabled, in poor health, older beyond those earning years means you need to be more prudent in using the assets you may have.

Your friend has relatives that he can assist and lean on. Cultivate that asset of family. He ought to encourage the non-preppers to be prepared for natural and immediate disasters, a tornado, being snowed in or a train derailment. These are areas that reasonable people will understand, I suggest you not go into the roving armies, nukes falling on them, aliens landing or a dome falling on their community. Is there something he can do to trade with them, in all fairness not living off family, say do some electrical work and they can begin gardening on that 40 acres, or can he farm part of it and share the fruits?

He needs to assess his needs from his wants, he needs that financial cushion before taking on car payments and charging dinner out. He needs to forget what the Jones's have, his self-worth doesn't come from others.

I can take my knife and head to the hills and I'll be fine for a week, or longer; it's hard work, it's not fun after awhile, scavenging what you must have without stealing anything, I'd rather not have to do that but I can. When you can say that you'll be fine in most cases, your basement doesn't have to be full of rocket launchers with martial arts trophies on the walls (just knowing someone who does might help, LOL).

Well, as a newbie, I sure tipped my hand on this post......all IMHO as an old guy whose been there.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

headhunter said:


> Don't you wonder if the hold up for collapsing the current currency isn't in part related to the wrangling over how old debt will be collected? I don't think any of the powers that be want to or will come out holding the dirty end of the stick. Good luck to all of us.


I wouldn't think so. Those making the decisions don't have to worry about their debts. They have stolen enough not to have to worry about it.

And the little people debts? That's their problem.


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

I have some Zimbabwe dollars if anyone wants to trade some green backs 
or the NEW Canadian look Amero dollars :laugh:

I think it will have more value than our money when the dust settles.


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

has he used up his school loans and grants? I'd tell him to sign up for full time classes, drop to half time, (online preferably) at a cheap jr college. It will put 7k in his pocket, per semester. if he signs up for fall, he'll have14 in January. That's plenty to build up a ton of credit card credit. If things ever look really bad, use the CC to buy all the gold and silver coins he can get, on top of food and gear from Wally's. beware annual fees on cards. this is the finest, cheapest, all around disaster insurance available to the common man, but you have to put the card where they are REALLY hard to get, or have a helluva lot more discipline than average.


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## amesw2013 (Nov 12, 2013)

He would need to turn his cash, and any viable unnecessary possessions turned to assests. 

1. Fuel, Food and Water will be currency.
- get out of paper and into tradable goods
2. Research and build a viable 'bug out bag.'
- you need to be mobile immediately
3. Research, Learn and PRACTICE old fashioned or primitive survival skills immediately
- you must know how to make fire, shelter, treat water and obtain substantial food
4. Study self defense
- from anyone, and everyone willing to teach you
5. Develop or join a trustworthy community
- no man is an island into himself, you need friends
- but do your part, too!


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

never have any kid for which you aint got 1/4 million $ wisely invested. that's rule ONE. if you violate this rule, you are stupidly endangering a child, putting all sorts of stress on yourself (and everyone around you) Without the kids, you could do all sorts of things to save yourself, but with them, you've blown it.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

besign said:


> never have any kid for which you aint got 1/4 million $ wisely invested. that's rule ONE. if you violate this rule, you are stupidly endangering a child, putting all sorts of stress on yourself (and everyone around you) Without the kids, you could do all sorts of things to save yourself, but with them, you've blown it.


You actually believe that?  
Personally I had a lot of "money" in the form of real estate and productive assets from a young age but I know many others that didn't and I can't imagine their kids not being around. I know many others with significant wealth whose kids the world might not miss so much.


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

This "survival thing" is based on many things. Not one of us can see the future, wouldn't that make it simple? We live in different places, have different life experiences and are surrounded by different people. Some of us have spouses, children, or grandchildren. The resourses we have are infinately different.
I have a city friend who's preps are a couple of flats of Spam. He has acquired some excellent firearms and ammunition (he does practice). He has considerable skills as a mechanic and has a ton of tools and car parts. He is a super salesman. He is satisfied he has done what he wishes.
Another older friend knows that all is not right. He is a millionaire with hundreds of acres who loves hunting and shooting, but appears to have taken the stance because of his age he will not survive.
The S-I-L has a wife (my eldest , she qualified for her CC and carries) who is positive the sun will come up in the same place tommorow. He, on the other hand, has acquired many firearms, camping supplies, a Surburban, a couple of Kayaks, a Polaris ATV, and a number of MREs. He also competes with his bow (as does the grandson) and rides his bike >75 miles (5X) per week.
Another friend is keenly aware of the "something isn"t right" but has chosen to sit back and watch what developes. Firearms and bow he has, motorcycle, garden, and excellent skills as a carpenter.
It appears that we are all responding differently. Is it because the news media has "put on a happy face" that we are responding so differently?


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## besign (Aug 9, 2014)

of course I believe it, since it's a provable fact.  public education requires taxes, which are taken by force, which is an offense. Ditto welfare, ditto having to lock up those kids when they are unable to be productive, disciplined, etc.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

besign said:


> of course I believe it, since it's a provable fact.  public education requires taxes, which are taken by force, which is an offense. Ditto welfare, ditto having to lock up those kids when they are unable to be productive, disciplined, etc.


Promise you will never breed. It will be the smartest thing YOU will ever do. Not to mention the kindest you can do for the rest of humanity...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

besign said:


> of course I believe it, since it's a provable fact.  public education requires taxes, which are taken by force, which is an offense. Ditto welfare, ditto having to lock up those kids when they are unable to be productive, disciplined, etc.


Then you have no idea what a provable fact is, I am guessing you are a teen so that is unfortunately not too surprising these days

I don't want to take this any further O.T but just FYI; homeschooling doesn't require taxes, also in many places once you take into account "victimless" and "white collar" crime the lower income population is not responsible for significantly more "crime", in other countries and areas crime is significantly less of a problem.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

besign said:


> never have any kid for which you aint got 1/4 million $ wisely invested. that's rule ONE. if you violate this rule, you are stupidly endangering a child, putting all sorts of stress on yourself (and everyone around you) Without the kids, you could do all sorts of things to save yourself, but with them, you've blown it.


never have listened to anybody who aint got rule ONE right. if you violate this rule, you are stupidly endangering the rest of us, putting all sorts of stress on yourself (and everyone around you) Without this rule, you've blown it.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/22/b2/d3/22b2d35e8c85274543272d57e19cad6b.jpg


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

besign said:


> never have any kid for which you aint got 1/4 million $ wisely invested. that's rule ONE. if you violate this rule, you are stupidly endangering a child, putting all sorts of stress on yourself (and everyone around you) Without the kids, you could do all sorts of things to save yourself, but with them, you've blown it.


Apparently who ever taught you your all knowing attitude broke a few rules:brickwall:


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

besign said:


> obviously, all you guys HAVE broken the #1 rule, and you and your kids and everyone around you is suffering for having done so, and you HATE anyone who points out those things to everyone else.


Wow, not sure if I believe you have lived so long :dunno:

Nope, like I said I have had plenty of assets since a young age I just am mature and logical enough to see that others do fine in different circumstances.

I don't HATE anyone, but I do get bothered by opinion being construed as fact and people thinking they know all the answers when it is so painfully obvious they do not.

Can't say I am surprised you don't have kids though.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

besign said:


> obviously, all you guys HAVE broken the #1 rule, and you and your kids and everyone around you is suffering for having done so, and you HATE anyone who points out those things to everyone else.


Clearly you know NOTHING about any of us. Nor does it look like you care about anything but inflating your own ego. Go troll somewhere else.


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Grimm said:


> Clearly you know NOTHING about any of us. Nor does it look like you care about anything but inflating your own ego. Go troll somewhere else.


This one is yours.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> Can't say I am surprised you don't have kids though.


What self respecting woman (or man for that matter) would want to sleep with this self righteous asshat let alone BREED with him!?!?!?


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## nightwing (Jul 26, 2014)

I haven't had this much fun -- well I can't tell youall but, if any of you had been there :beercheer:


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

I think we are done here ...

Closed


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