# Is there a dummy manual for solar power?



## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I've looked everywhere I have yet to find a dummy manual for setting up solar panels and setting up the components you need to charge batteries! Nor have I found a list of what wattages go with what I really would like some more research on this before I sink money into this prep!


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## doubleTHICK (Jun 19, 2012)

http://pssurvival.com/PS/Solar/index.htm

May be something in there that could help you; if not, time to hit YouTube


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

look at these posts!

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-208-a-23287/

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-500-a-15496/


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Deathdealer said:


> I've looked everywhere I have yet to find a dummy manual for setting up solar panels and setting up the components you need to charge batteries! Nor have I found a list of what wattages go with what I really would like some more research on this before I sink money into this prep!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


You need to figure what are the most important things you want to run on solar, total times that they run, average sun days for your location. Once you have that figured then you will need to look for the wattage on the items you will be using. Post those figures here and one of the many solar users here can certainly figure out something for you or put you on the right track for figuring what you,ll need. If you minimize what you are planing to run on solar it certainly helps as solar projects can get expensive really fast. As an example I have designed a solar standby system that will pass through grid power to two refrigerators, a freezer and a few lights. I may be able to use a washing machine on off operating time for the fridges and freezer as the washer uses about what the two refrigerators pull in total amps.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Lots of good info posted so far



Deathdealer said:


> and setting up the components you need to charge batteries!


Aside from the panels themselves there is only 1 component, the charge controller, that is required to charge the batteries (and even that can be skipped in some situations, though it is usually not worth it).

Solar panels are incredibly simple devices to work with, you simply have a positive and a negative low voltage DC wire or terminal, like in a vehicle. Wires from your panels go to the charge controller.

The charge controller is generally a very straightforward device as well, though there is a range from incredibly simple to lots of options. They come with instructions. They all should have clearly labeled "Solar" or "input" terminals, clearly labeled "battery" terminals, and sometimes "load" terminals (power to these terminals will be disconnected when the battery voltage drops below a predetermined level).

It really is that simple to put this stuff together; wires from panels to controller, from controller to batteries. From batteries or LVD(low voltage disconnect) on charge controller to whatever load you have.

Other than some basic tools like a screwdriver and possibly a wire stripper/crimper the only essential (imo) tool someone might not have is a multimeter but you can pick one up for a few bucks these days.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

Deathdealer said:


> I've looked everywhere I have yet to find a dummy manual for setting up solar panels and setting up the components you need to charge batteries! Nor have I found a list of what wattages go with what I really would like some more research on this before I sink money into this prep!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


I bought this book (Photovoltaics Design and installation manual) a couple of years ago and it covers everything I've needed from battery bank design, use of different types of controllers, positioning of panels, etc.










Prices I've seen are between $18.00 and $70.00 so shop a little! I only posted a link to this page because it showed a good picture of the book and I'm in no way endorsing this site or proposing you purchase the book from them.

Hope this helps!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

hiwall said:


> look at these posts!
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-208-a-23287/
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f16/d-i-y-solar-generator-less-than-500-a-15496/


"Props" to hiwall for posting those up 

Deathdealer, can you give us an idea of what you are trying to do?


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_box_?k=solar+power+for+dummies&x=20&y=19


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Geek999 said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_box_?k=solar+power+for+dummies&x=20&y=19


You can buy a nice charge controller for that much


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Deathdealer said:


> I've looked everywhere I have yet to find a dummy manual for setting up solar panels and setting up the components you need to charge batteries! Nor have I found a list of what wattages go with what I really would like some more research on this before I sink money into this prep!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


http://www.amazon.com/Solar-Power-Your-Home-Dummies/dp/0470596783


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

LincTex said:


> You can buy a nice charge controller for that much


Just buy one, not the whole list.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

One thing that I continually harp on is something I don't often hear when people talk about solar panels and that's cell counts per panel. That's one thing I learned right away when I installed a solar system on our motor home. Before I bought anything I did a lot of online research for what I'd need and I just happen to run across AM Solar which is now in Springfield, OR. Their web site has an RV Solar Education page which was very helpful in designing my solar system, thing is these systems can be easily used for home solar, if I wanted to I could pull all the solar components off of the motor home and use for our home. This was a few years ago before the economic down turn which changed what people bought for motor homes, since then most of the systems AM solar sells are installed on smaller motor homes and in the process the solar panels they sell are smaller to fit those roofs. When we bought ours the big thing was getting 100 watt panels that had 44 cells, now they sell mostly 32 and 36 cell panels in the 100 watt size. The thing that makes the difference is that my 44 cell panels have a full sun load voltage of 21+ VDC, the 32 and 36 cell panels have 17 to 18+ load voltage( or as AM Solar puts it @ maximum power point. Why harp on this? Well when generating solar power not all things are perfect when it comes to the suns clean output, late fall through early spring the sun is low and solar charge hours are short. Lightly cloudy or hazy days reduce solar voltage output and heat can change efficiency as well. Having the extra cells may give just enough voltage on bad solar days to put a charge on your storage batteries to make a difference and keep you from being disappointed with solar. In order to take advantage of the higher voltage that high cell count panels put out you really need to have a MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking) solar controller. They can take the much higher than necessary voltage for charging a 12 volt battery storage system and give you a charge on not so good of a solar day. One MPPT system that AM Solar has can take up to 48 volts from solar panels and produce the 12 volts. Just so you know, I do not work for AM Solar nor do I buy all my solar components from them, in fact the last panels I bought were from Grape Solar in Eugene, OR. I also bought my Morningstar TriStar 60 amp MPPT solar controller from Grape Solar as well because their price beat AM Solar by a good amount. One thing that may save you a lot of money is to look for suppliers close to where you live as you can save a lot of money due to the high cost of shipping. We also bought our pure sine wave inverter/chargers from Don Rowe Co. which is just North of Eugene for their good price an no shipping. Both of these suppliers are less than 150 miles from our home and we saved over a hundred dollars even considering our fuel cost to pick the stuff up ourselves. As to getting the inverter/charger at Don Rowe, I couldn't believe how expensive the inverter/charger was at a local RV supplier, at least $400 more. It does pay to do your research.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Buy the Photovoltaics book. You can learn enough from it to avoid some mistakes that would cost you FAR more than the price of the book. 

The easy way in anything is to let someone else do your thinking for you. That usually comes out to be costly in the end. The more you learn about this, like any subject, the better equipped you will be to make good decisions. 

One beginner mistake is thinking you can add more panels and batteries later on when finances and time permit. Bad idea. Batteries with some use on them do not work well with new ones and the whole bank suffers. The system needs to be designed as a whole and each component sized according to the overall power draw you will use from it. 

Read. Learn. Design a system according to your needs, as outlined by others here. Then, and only then, should you spend any money.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

machinist said:


> One beginner mistake is thinking you can add more panels and batteries later on when finances and time permit. Bad idea. Batteries with some use on them do not work well with new ones and the whole bank suffers. The system needs to be designed as a whole and each component sized according to the overall power draw you will use from it.


Most of your post I agree with completely but on this I will have to respectfully disagree. 
I have worked on MANY systems over the years and one of the great things with alternative energy systems imo is their incredible flexibility. Adding solar/wind or batteries is routine in these circumstances and, although there are a few tricks here and there it is almost completely NOT problematic.

Converting from a higher voltage (24V,48V) down to 12V is another story:gaah:. Going from 12V to a higher voltage is easy.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

machinist said:


> Bad idea. Batteries with some use on them do not work well with new ones and the whole bank suffers.


I used to think this... but now I'm not so sure.

When I did the diesel swap into my F-250, I wanted to go with dual batteries. The local pick-n-pull sell batteries for $15-$20, and I see this "Brand-new-looking" yellow MAXX-1 (from Wal Mart) sitting in a wrecked Caprice. The little round sticker says it was manufactured 8 months ago, and I tested it and it was deader than dead.

I took it home and charged it, tested it (fine) then went to wal world and bought another one *identical* to that one.

That was back in May 2007, and you know - - those batteries will still start that truck! I thought about replacing them soon because batteries really only last about 7-8 years anyway. The one from the wrecking yard never "pulled the other one down" as many folks like to think will happen.


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

the only time the mixing new and older batteries causes problems is when one has a definitely weaker cell or cells, then it causes an overcharge condition is the rest of the cells in the load group, If a battery won't hold a charge, it can mess the other batteries hooked up in a circuit with it. A simple load test will find weak cell pretty fast.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

cowboyhermit said:


> Most of your post I agree with completely but on this I will have to respectfully disagree.
> I have worked on MANY systems over the years and one of the great things with alternative energy systems imo is their incredible flexibility. Adding solar/wind or batteries is routine in these circumstances and, although there are a few tricks here and there it is almost completely NOT problematic.
> 
> Converting from a higher voltage (24V,48V) down to 12V is another story:gaah:. Going from 12V to a higher voltage is easy.


That is another reason I like to use the 6 volt batteries. When we bought our motor home it had two Costco 6 volt batteries, when I installed the solar system I added two Interstate 6 volt batteries, in hooking them up series/parallel I put the new batteries one on each series and then paralleled that. We ran this for at least 4 years, no telling how old the two original batteries were. I probably would have gotten more years out of them but I had a charging problem between the motor home shelter solar charge system which I eliminated by going to an MPPT solar controller for the motor home which had a split off for charging the engine battery and the new controller passed a better charge to the house batteries as well. I don't recommend running two old series batteries paralleled to two new series batteries.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LincTex said:


> I used to think this... but now I'm not so sure.
> 
> When I did the diesel swap into my F-250, I wanted to go with dual batteries. The local pick-n-pull sell batteries for $15-$20, and I see this "Brand-new-looking" yellow MAXX-1 (from Wal Mart) sitting in a wrecked Caprice. The little round sticker says it was manufactured 8 months ago, and I tested it and it was deader than dead.
> 
> ...


I have different aged Interstates in our F-250 diesel and it's been doing great since around 2001 or so, I don't remember off hand but I was still working for the local school district and I retired from there in 2002.


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

While many of you have not had obvious problems mixing/matching batteries, I'd like to go on record as saying that every expert I've ever talked to has advised against combining new and used batteries. 

Regardless of whether you have had issues or not doesn't mean there aren't legitimate reasons for the policy. I'd advise against it if at all possible.

This isn't to say you shouldn't hook up a couple of batteries from two different sources if you're trying to light up your tent. But if your trying to use a solar array to charge a battery bank then the bank will perform more efficiently if built from batteries introduced at relatively the same time.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Battery banks are like a chain ... they are only as strong as the weakest link. I've seen new batteries go bad and I've seen some that were both old and strong. I usually match them by their score on a load test.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

squerly said:


> While many of you have not had obvious problems mixing/matching batteries,
> 
> If by "obvious" you mean recorded and logged voltage testing at many sites over more than a decade, along with battery lifespan documentation
> "mixing/matching" batteries could mean a lot of things, what was mentioned here is adding batteries of the same type that were newer
> ...


For the record, I don't "recommend" having a variety of ages of batteries. When I have to replace batteries in a farm machine I swap both because I can use one somewhere else and it just isn't worth the hassle. However, I have worked on many sites (around 50 in one particular situation) where adding batteries was done systematically. There were "good" reasons why they didn't just move around the old and new batteries from one site to the next. Each battery was tested for voltage at rest and under load (sometimes resistance was tested but that was abandoned after it was deemed pointless in this situation), making sure they met the standard, all batteries were of the same type and size. 5-10 years later, no difference in failure rates.

No two batteries are identical, even from the factory, the idea that they are is a myth, perpetuated by the fact that most meters don't have the resolution to show it. Even the top of the line AGM batteries have variances, so you are always "mixing batteries" to some extent.

Mixing battery types (AGM, flooded, gel), mixing battery sizes, batteries with different resistances or voltages, these things are all potential sources of problems. I could go on and on, which demonstrates the point that it is much easier to just say "Never mix old and new batteries".

This thread was about basics of solar and I took it off topic a bit, for that I apologize. I think this stuff is worth mentioning but don't want to make alternative energy seem daunting or overly complicated. These systems are surprisingly flexible, forgiving, and relatively simple for the most part.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Okay, so forget my remark about mixing batteries. Do whatever your heart desires. It's your money, after all.


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## Deathdealer (Oct 26, 2013)

I really want to power my whole house one day but that can wait till I have the whole system an how it work and how I can fix it fast if something goes wrong but right now I want to power 2 outlets one for TV DVD player my ps3 and an outlet to charge my phone ipad and battery charger laptop just an all around miscellaneous outlet use!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Then the previously linked D-I-Y threads should be close to what you are looking at. You are probably looking at a system in the 100-500W range, depending on budget and local conditions, whether these things will run 24/7, etc. A charge controller under 40 amps most likely, and 1-4 deep cycle batteries.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

machinist said:


> Okay, so forget my remark about mixing batteries. Do whatever your heart desires. It's your money, after all.


Paralleling new and old batteries generally is not good because sulfate buildup on the older battery cells can cause a resistance that can drag down the new battery' charge sustainability. But if one is going to add batteries my drawing shows how to do it. I posted this awhile back but it's worth showing again because mixing good condition old batteries with new batteries should have no detrimental effect on the new ones. This is also another reason I like the 6 volt batteries.


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