# Insurance rant



## angie_nrs

Sometimes I think insurance is just for idiots.....like me, apparently.:brickwall:

In watching the hurricane coverage I've seen sooooo many people get on TV and say either they don't have insurance coverage or none of their neighbors do. So what's that mean for the people who have tried to do the right thing and sacrifice a portion of their income to purchase insurance? What do those people get vs. the people get who don't get coverage? I honestly don't know the answer to this. I'm sure the folks who DO have coverage will need to jump through all kinds of hoops to get any money from their insurance companies. Isn't it funny how those companies have no problems cashing your checks but when a claim comes up, they have such a difficult time getting a check to you? Then, because you had a claim, your next insurance renewal will come with hefty increases in premiums. At least that's been my personal experience. And, those folks without coverage.....what happens there? Does FEMA come in and bail them out? I've heard that with Sandy and Katrina that insurance companies were forced to gather money (from those who pay for insurance) to create a fund to help those without any insurance.vract: I've not been able to find out if that is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Even if that wasn't the case, the "taxpayers" are still left holding the bag.....again.

In addition I have been changing health coverage this past week and I'm just spent! The amount of phone calls to my agent, emails, paperwork, etc. is just unbelievable! Believe me, I have gone above and beyond to do my due diligence and I still can't get a straight answer on what would be paid for in a very specific situation. Plus, the insurance companies now have all the information they should ever need to completely ruin my life. They don't NEED that information, but thanks to Obamacare they are required to gather it. I don't even go to the doctor......I just want a catastrophic plan in case of an accident and the amount of money I am paying for that is outrageous.

I'm at the end of my rope with ALL insurance. Again, those of us who are TRYING to do the right thing and protecting ourselves are getting screwed. As far as I'm concerned, insurance is a game created by lawyers to benefit......lawyers!

I can see why folks just give up, quit working, and go on Medicaid. I'm sure that is part of the master plan. It shouldn't be THIS hard to do the right thing! It's just so disappointing and sad that doing the wrong this is so much easier and so acceptable.:surrender:


----------



## Sentry18

Insurance started out as a good protective program, and like everything else greed and gov't regulations screwed it all up. I have had so many battles with insurance companies that I could scream. Which is why I will not buy insurance where there is not a local agent. I want to be able to stand in a room and look at the person saying no to me, or lying about my coverage, lying about my deductible, lying about the premiums, etc. Insurance agents and insurance companies rank in the same categories as politicians when it comes to trustworthiness.


----------



## LincTex

Sentry18 said:


> Which is why I will not buy insurance where there is not a local agent. I want to be able to stand in a room and look at the person saying no to me, or lying about my coverage, lying about my deductible, lying about the premiums, etc. Insurance agents and insurance companies rank in the same categories as politicians when it comes to trustworthiness.


Truth.

And that does cost a bit more than "internet" insurance. But it's becoming almost essential.

Not sure what you have in your area, but Texas Farm Bureau Insurance has been a lifesaver for me. I have my homestead, vehicles, farm equipment, etc. all with them and get a great rate, and just by luck(?) I also have a fantastic agent - though he's always try to sell me something "more" (and he's honest about the commission he would get if I said "yes")


----------



## Kodeman

My mom's house burnt down several years ago and I was in charge of handling her affairs. She lived there for over 40 years and never once missed a payment on her homeowners policy. Boy did she get scr##ed. With everything gone she was unable to prove what she had in the house. The purpose of me posting is that it is so very important to take pics of everything and keep those pics in someone else's possession. This includes opening all drawers and closet doors. Just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## power

The only insurance I have is what I am forced by law to have.
I am betting on myself, not against myself.


----------



## Sentry18

Kodeman said:


> My mom's house burnt down several years ago and I was in charge of handling her affairs. She lived there for over 40 years and never once missed a payment on her homeowners policy. Boy did she get scr##ed. With everything gone she was unable to prove what she had in the house. The purpose of me posting is that it is so very important to take pics of everything and keep those pics in someone else's possession. This includes opening all drawers and closet doors. Just my 2 cents worth.


And if people think their homeowners insurance covers their guns and ammo, you should think again. Most homeowners policies will only cover guns if you have proof you owned the gun and it's current value (not just a photo, an annual appraisal signed by an FFL). Even then they have caps on what they will pay per gun and per collection. Usually FAR less than what you have. I watched a buddy get royally screwed over by American Family. And yes, he even had a gun specific rider. He got $2,800 for his $10,000+ gun collection and not a single penny for his optics, magazines, holsters, ammo, etc. I now get my gun insurance through Armscare (NRA).


----------



## terri9630

LincTex said:


> Truth.
> 
> And that does cost a bit more than "internet" insurance. But it's becoming almost essential.
> 
> Not sure what you have in your area, but Texas Farm Bureau Insurance has been a lifesaver for me. I have my homestead, vehicles, farm equipment, etc. all with them and get a great rate, and just by luck(?) I also have a fantastic agent - though he's always try to sell me something "more" (and he's honest about the commission he would get if I said "yes")


We have Farm Bureau here in NM. Our first agent sucked. Never submitted the paperwork or returned phone calls when I called. We changed agents and he is great. The new guy was brought in because the old guy was slacking off but they can't get rid of him for some reason.


----------



## terri9630

Sentry18 said:


> And if people think their homeowners insurance covers their guns and ammo, you should think again. Most homeowners policies will only cover guns if you have proof you owned the gun and it's current value (not just a photo, an annual appraisal signed by an FFL). Even then they have caps on what they will pay per gun and per collection. Usually FAR less than what you have. I watched a buddy get royally screwed over by American Family. And yes, he even had a gun specific rider. He got $2,800 for his $10,000+ gun collection and not a single penny for his optics, magazines, holsters, ammo, etc. I now get my gun insurance through Armscare (NRA).


My boss was robbed last year and I'm not sure if it's State Farm or Farm Bureau, one of the 2 local companies, but they replaced everything except the ammo.


----------



## Sentry18

terri9630 said:


> ...they replaced everything except the ammo.


Since I am sitting on more than 25,000 rounds of 5.56mm alone, that is scary.


----------



## terri9630

Sentry18 said:


> Since I am sitting on more than 25,000 rounds of 5.56mm alone, that is scary.


He said they only took what was in the safe not what was "under his wife's shoes in the closet". He shut the safe but forgot to "spin" the lock after getting some papers out. He said it was only a couple of hundred rounds.


----------



## JayJay

It's not only insurance, it's the entire health care institution.
I'm on day 18 of husband's brain surgery(left craniotomy subdural hematoma) and I could already write a book.
I kidnapped my husband yesterday from the rehab facility after driving 90 *&^%$# miles to spend 2 hours in a room for a doctor to spend 5 minutes with my husband removing [email protected]@@###!!!! He did it, turned around and walked out without even talking to my husband who couldn't talk/respond for two days while in the hospital!!!##!!!

DO NOT TAKE YOUR FAMILY TO REHAB!! IT IS A MONEY SCAM!! MY HUSBAND LAID IN A BED 23 HOURS AND HAD MAYBE 1 HOUR OF REHAB..WHICH ENTAILED WALKING DOWN A FRICKING HALLWAY AND WALKING UP 3 STEPS AND DOWN.

I...am ....so ......pi**ed!!!!


----------



## JayJay

Kodeman said:


> My mom's house burnt down several years ago and I was in charge of handling her affairs. She lived there for over 40 years and never once missed a payment on her homeowners policy. Boy did she get scr##ed. With everything gone she was unable to prove what she had in the house. The purpose of me posting is that it is so very important to take pics of everything and keep those pics in someone else's possession. This includes opening all drawers and closet doors. Just my 2 cents worth.


My homeowner's has a blanket amount--it is waaaay more than my house furnishings' value, etc,...I always buy cheap!, yard sale, flea market, discount or craigslist.!


----------



## crabapple

Owe a car, house, have kids, rent a home, you need insurance.
It is crazy to think it is better to keep the $3,000. to $20,000.00 for insurance, when you can barely make the monthly payments, forget replacement valve or even replace with something cheaper. 
The only insurance I do not use is auto gap insurance, AGI is just a way to say I paid too much for this car.


----------



## crabapple

JayJay said:


> It's not only insurance, it's the entire health care institution.
> I'm on day 18 of husband's brain surgery(left craniotomy subdural hematoma) and I could already write a book.
> I kidnapped my husband yesterday from the rehab facility after driving 90 *&^%$# miles to spend 2 hours in a room for a doctor to spend 5 minutes with my husband removing [email protected]@@###!!!! He did it, turned around and walked out without even talking to my husband who couldn't talk/respond for two days while in the hospital!!!##!!!
> 
> DO NOT TAKE YOUR FAMILY TO REHAB!! IT IS A MONEY SCAM!! MY HUSBAND LAID IN A BED 23 HOURS AND HAD MAYBE 1 HOUR OF REHAB..WHICH ENTAILED WALKING DOWN A FRICKING HALLWAY AND WALKING UP 3 STEPS AND DOWN.
> 
> I...am ....so ......pi**ed!!!!


Some people rehab is a life saver, but it sounds like you could have done this for your husband from home.
So I can see why you see the rehab money as a waste.


----------



## TheLazyL

Dad had a mild stroke (affected his balance) and mom signed him up for in house rehab. Dad was not a happy camper about being forced so he refuse to participate, which caused mom to drag me into the middle of the feud.

One of the rehab exercise was what I call "wax on wax off" rotate one hand clockwise then counter clockwise. Then repeat with the other hand.

One day Mom called. Dad had disappeared and they was out looking for him. We found him out in his shop, with the car up on ramps with him underneath changing the oil. Mom had a fit. I asked mom, "How do you change a oil filter?" She gave me a blank look so I showed her with my hand making a "wax on wax off" motion. Dad was doing his own rehab the way he knew how.

Insurance? I have vehicle and house insurance. Nothing in this life is fair so if I have file a claim I will be pleasantly surprised if I'm 100% reimbursed. I don't live from paycheck to paycheck so a small financial lost we can adsorb. A total lost we would survive but it would HURT.

House contents. As I recall half the value of my house is what they will insure the house contents _UP TO_. So if my house is insured for $100,000 and it burns to the ground they will automatically cut me a check for $150,000? Nope.

I have 50 widgets for sale at $1,000 each. Before you forked over $50,000 to me wouldn't you like to see proof that I had 50 of them? Same with the Insurance companies. The day is long gone (especially when money is involved)when people can be taken at their word.

On my iPad I have a app called "Gun Log SPC" I can list every firearm and accessory I own. Who, what, where and how much. Up to four pictures can be associated with each firearm. I take a picture of the overall firearm, close up so the serial number and model can be read, and a picture of the receipt. If I have a claim or a theft I can email part or all of the list to the Insurance Agent and/or LEO. The App is password protected as is my iPad.

Where has personal responsibility gone? I didn't build in a flood plain. Not close to a sea or river. Hurricanes, typhoons, earth quakes or forest fires not in this part of the country. I'm conservative with my money so a sail boat three states away now laying on it's side on top of a house isn't going to be mine. Basing my personal decisions based on Government promise ain't going to happen either.

Yep I've made a few decisions that didn't pan out. I suffered the consequences of those decisions not some Taxpayer funded government reelection handout.

:ranton:


----------



## JayJay

ThelazyL...we are all paying for every disaster ever happening...in premiums.
Our homeowner's has increased every year for 10 years.
We have never filed a claim in 43 years.


----------



## drfacefixer

JayJay said:


> ThelazyL...we are all paying for every disaster ever happening...in premiums.
> 
> Our homeowner's has increased every year for 10 years.
> 
> We have never filed a claim in 43 years.


Part that and part that real estate has a very high probability it will have increased in value at the time a claim is made.


----------



## Tirediron

insurance has become another tax, it sometimes pays out most times not, I seriously dislike the insurance industry.


----------



## bugoutbob

There is a reason insurance companies own so many office buildings with no debt.


----------



## weedygarden

Tirediron said:


> insurance has become another tax, it sometimes pays out most times not, I seriously dislike the insurance industry.


BINGO! This is what I have been saying. When we started having mandatory insurance for everything, it became a tax!


----------



## Tweto

When it comes to insurance, I spend considerable time reading through the policy's. 

On cars, liability is all I have, but then none of my cars are worth more then $5,000. Even if the car was worth $10,000, it may make sense to just carry liability only when you factor in the cost of full coverage insurance over a 5 year period Vs the cost for just liability.

I discovered a real problem with home insurance. When I was looking at my policy, the ins company had put a value on my house of $300,000. I asked the agent why so much because the house could be rebuilt for maybe $160,000. He said they take into consideration the value of the entire property such as land value. I told him to give me an example of what threat there is to my ground and he couldn't come up with a good on. Because of this I told him to back off the value on the policy to $160,000 and that decreased my cost by 30%.


----------



## TheLazyL

Tweto said:


> ...the ins company had put a value on my house of $300,000. I asked the agent why so much because the house could be rebuilt for maybe $160,000. ...back off the value on the policy to $160,000 and that decreased my cost by 30%.


I believe the Insurance Agent get a percentage of each policy he writes. The higher the value of the policy increases his income?


----------



## Sentry18

Many years ago after watching a buddy lose home and get screwed over by an insurance co. my Dad sat in his insurance agents office to upgrade his homeowners policy. He told the guy he wanted to be covered for fire, flood, tornado, theft, alien invasion, etc., etc., etc. He said "I want to be completely covered, do not leave me susceptible to anything". Flash forward 5 years later and his basement floods because of a problem with the city's sewer system. We spent days cleaning up and throwing things away and there was a substantial financial loss from things being stored down there. Same insurance agent said "sorry, you were not covered for sewer back up only natural events that cause flooding". My Dad laid into him until he looked like he was going to cry. The agent claimed my Dad only asked for the standard package. Dad filed a claim anyway which was denied, then he filed a lawsuit against the local agent and the insurance co. His main piece of evidence was an audio recording of his original meeting with the agent. They settled out of court. Many of his neighbors got nothing at all.


----------



## Tweto

Sentry18 said:


> Many years ago after watching a buddy lose home and get screwed over by an insurance co. my Dad sat in his insurance agents office to upgrade his homeowners policy. He told the guy he wanted to be covered for fire, flood, tornado, theft, alien invasion, etc., etc., etc. He said "I want to be completely covered, do not leave me susceptible to anything". Flash forward 5 years later and his basement floods because of a problem with the city's sewer system. We spent days cleaning up and throwing things away and there was a substantial financial loss from things being stored down there. Same insurance agent said "sorry, you were not covered for sewer back up only natural events that cause flooding". My Dad laid into him until he looked like he was going to cry. The agent claimed my Dad only asked for the standard package. Dad filed a claim anyway which was denied, then he filed a lawsuit against the local agent and the insurance co. His main piece of evidence was an audio recording of his original meeting with the agent. They settled out of court. Many of his neighbors got nothing at all.


Was the recording legal in that state. I know that in some states, recording a conversation without both party's knowing is illegal. With smart phones now that can audio record and video record it's so easy to do this.

Some times for fun I record the audio at my table at a restaurant, later when I review it I can pick up and hear even tables near me with perfect clarity.

BTW I have considered recording business conversations and am still no sure if I can.


----------



## Sentry18

Tweto said:


> Was the recording legal in that state. I know that in some states, recording a conversation without both party's knowing is illegal. With smart phones now that can audio record and video record it's so easy to do this.
> 
> Some times for fun I record the audio at my table at a restaurant, later when I review it I can pick up and hear even tables near me with perfect clarity.
> 
> BTW I have considered recording business conversations and am still no sure if I can.


My Dad was an LEO at the time (now retired). He stopped in on his lunch break and was wearing his body mic. However something obtained even illegally does not automatically make it inadmissible in court, especially civil court. Other times it does not need to get to court, just into the court of public opinion.

Only 11 or 12 of the 50 states require all parties consent to a recording and of them I would only step foot in maybe 2-3. I am allergic to liberal cesspools.


----------



## Sentry18

Caribou said:


> Sentry, I see that you have a new disguise.


My avatar is like a mood ring. Feeling a little revolutionary today.


----------



## phideaux

Little story about my auto insurance.

We got our new premium for 6 months, last week.
It went up like $75 ($150 yr),:dunno:

So I looked at it, and they added (without my consent) Breakdown repairs coverage , with $500 deductible, and Rental car coverage.

I own a 2 year old NEW car *under factory warranty*, and never take rental car coverage cuz I only use one vehicle at a time and I have a dandy truck . 2 vehicles.

I suppose many people just pay the new premium.:dunno:
Thats a scam in my book.

oh btw, I got it taken off.

Jim


----------



## RedBeard

Sentry18 said:


> Since I am sitting on more than 25,000 rounds of 5.56mm alone, that is scary.


Wow! Just wow! Im starting to think my bugout plan should just simply be to find you!


----------



## BillS

Insurance is tricky with hurricanes. Wind damage is covered but flooding isn't. Let's say you don't live in a flood zone so you didn't have flood insurance. But your home was destroyed by flooding then you're out of luck.

My wife and I had a lot of trouble with the health insurance company she had from work. They would always deny the medical claim the first time. Even sickness and accident insurance. Her employer would certify that she wasn't there. The work doctor certified that she was sick. But she'd have to file the claim two or three times before they would pay. So if she was off for two weeks it would be six or eight weeks before she'd see the money.

When I worked for Thrivent, formerly Aid Association for Lutherans, we would deal with investment companies and 401k transfers. Some of the companies would lie right to your face when you asked them for a social security number to go with the name on the transfer. Thrivent had at least 2 million members. Even a name like Richard E Williams brought up too many names on a search to show them all. You can't risk applying the payment to the wrong person. And often you couldn't get help from the company that was transferring the money.

I think it's all a symptom of societies becoming more and more dishonest.


----------



## Sentry18

RedBeard said:


> Wow! Just wow! Im starting to think my bugout plan should just simply be to find you!


Why? Is that a lot? Doesn't seem like a lot. I usually buy 4 cases a year and shoot between 2 & 3. Then my supply perpetually grows. I do the same with 9mm. And yes, I have an insurance rider for ammo and I keep invoices and photos of my ammo storage.


----------



## phideaux

A good friend of mine, is a SWAT member in Indianapolis,nand he is issued so many rounds of .223 (1000s) and is required to use them each month.

Of course his AR15 is full auto, nice rifle, and eats a lot.



Jim


----------



## RedBeard

Sentry18 said:


> Why? Is that a lot? Doesn't seem like a lot. I usually buy 4 cases a year and shoot between 2 & 3. Then my supply perpetually grows. I do the same with 9mm. And yes, I have an insurance rider for ammo and I keep invoices and photos of my ammo storage.


That's a good pile of it in my book. I bet your gun and ammo collection is worth more than my house. Im jealous. I didn't know you could insure your ammo. That's pretty cool.


----------



## tsrwivey

Tweto said:


> I discovered a real problem with home insurance. When I was looking at my policy, the ins company had put a value on my house of $300,000. I asked the agent why so much because the house could be rebuilt for maybe $160,000. He said they take into consideration the value of the entire property such as land value. I told him to give me an example of what threat there is to my ground and he couldn't come up with a good on. Because of this I told him to back off the value on the policy to $160,000 and that decreased my cost by 30%.


There's a couple reasons you might want to leave it higher. 1) Say your house burns, rarely does it burn to the ground so you will have to pay not only for a new house to be built but also for the old one to be torn down & disposed of. That's not cheap. 2). Most people get insurance when they buy their house & never increase it after that. It's often wrapped up in the mortgage payment so the rarely even think about it. The value of your home can increase rapidly as can the price of new construction. For most, your home is your most valuable asset & insuring it is relatively cheap.


----------



## Sentry18

RedBeard said:


> That's a good pile of it in my book. I bet your gun and ammo collection is worth more than my house. Im jealous. I didn't know you could insure your ammo. That's pretty cool.


https://collectinsure.com/what-we-insure/guns-knives-accessories

This is the company I use to insure my ammo and preps. I uses Armscare (NRA) for my guns.

I was fortunate enough to be born into a "gun nut" family and have inherited as many guns as I have purchased. My career has also aided that greatly with very nice (10-25%) discounts on guns and ammo, as well as department provided ammo that I did not always shoot up. Plus with 7 kids I want to make sure each inherits a nice collection when I go into the oven.


----------



## PreparedRifleman73

Hey all!

I wish I would have found this thread earlier. I am an underwriter in a business model where I deal directly with insureds and provide expert advice to agents, claims adjusters, etc... I am an expert on property casualty insurance (farm, home, auto, commercial, liability, etc...)

I see a lot of inaccuracies and misperceptions here.



angie_nrs said:


> Then, because you had a claim, your next insurance renewal will come with hefty increases in premiums.
> 
> ...
> 
> I've heard that with Sandy and Katrina that insurance companies were forced to gather money (from those who pay for insurance) to create a fund to help those without any insurance.vract: I've not been able to find out if that is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least. Even if that wasn't the case, the "taxpayers" are still left holding the bag.....again.


First, most states have laws that prevent an insurance company from raising your rates due to certain types of claims (like weather, medical payments, etc...). While base rates may rise due to a hurricane or weather event, your individual policy can't be surcharged for use of that.

Second, insurance companies didn't have to foot the bill for folks who didn't insurance. I don't know if tax funding was involved, but I imagine it was.



Sentry18 said:


> Which is why I will not buy insurance where there is not a local agent. .


Bingo! If you're price shopping online, you get what you pay for. I would never buy insurance except through a local agent who is paid commission for my business and understands I'm not all about peicd
They have a profit motive to keep me and if they know that coverage and service is the way to do that, I will be taken care of.



LincTex said:


> T.
> 
> Not sure what you have in your area, but Texas Farm Bureau Insurance has been a lifesaver for me. I have my homestead, vehicles, farm equipment, etc. all with them and get a great rate, and just by luck(?) I also have a fantastic agent - though he's always try to sell me something "more" (and he's honest about the commission he would get if I said "yes")


I work for a Farm Bureau that is affiliated with but distinctly separate from the Texas part of Farm Bureau. It is the best carrier in TX for sure.



Kodeman said:


> My mom's house burnt down several years ago and I was in charge of handling her affairs. She lived there for over 40 years and never once missed a payment on her homeowners policy. Boy did she get scr##ed. With everything gone she was unable to prove what she had in the house. The purpose of me posting is that it is so very important to take pics of everything and keep those pics in someone else's possession. This includes opening all drawers and closet doors. Just my 2 cents worth.


So there are two main different "perils" of insurance to purchase. The cheaper one requires you to prove coverage and damage, the slightly more expensive one basically assumes there is coverage unless the insurance carrier can prove otherwise. Many people buy the first to save a buck.



Sentry18 said:


> And if people think their homeowners insurance covers their guns and ammo, you should think again. Most homeowners policies will only cover guns if you have proof you owned the gun and it's current value (not just a photo, an annual appraisal signed by an FFL). Even then they have caps on what they will pay per gun and per collection. Usually FAR less than what you have. I watched a buddy get royally screwed over by American Family. And yes, he even had a gun specific rider. He got $2,800 for his $10,000+ gun collection and not a single penny for his optics, magazines, holsters, ammo, etc. I now get my gun insurance through Armscare (NRA).


This is back to the peril issue. If you purchase special perils, all of that stuff is covered up to the limits of the policy. There is only a sub limit on theft of guns, any other damage (like fire) has no limit except the policy limits of Household Personal Property.



terri9630 said:


> We have Farm Bureau here in NM. Our first agent sucked. Never submitted the paperwork or returned phone calls when I called. We changed agents and he is great. The new guy was brought in because the old guy was slacking off but they can't get rid of him for some reason.


This is the company I work for, just a different state. I don't know all the agents but I do know all the underwriters. It is the best property carrier in the state. So if you ever want someone to check it all over, let me know.



terri9630 said:


> My boss was robbed last year and I'm not sure if it's State Farm or Farm Bureau, one of the 2 local companies, but they replaced everything except the ammo.


This is as it should be with the proper coverage.



drfacefixer said:


> Part that and part that real estate has a very high probability it will have increased in value at the time a claim is made.


So you insure to the cost to rebuild. If your agent even mentions the market resale value, run. Do not consider this in choosing limits.



bugoutbob said:


> There is a reason insurance companies own so many office buildings with no debt.


Yep. It is because state regulators control how much debt we may have, so it must be used productively to leverage growth. Additionally, real estate tends to mirror inflation (or used to) so it is a safe investment for us. Finally, we are VERY sensitive to interest rates and need to diversify out of such exposures to better serve you competitively.



Tweto said:


> When it comes to insurance, I spend considerable time reading through the policy's.
> 
> I discovered a real problem with home insurance. When I was looking at my policy, the ins company had put a value on my house of $300,000. I asked the agent why so much because the house could be rebuilt for maybe $160,000. He said they take into consideration the value of the entire property such as land value. I told him to give me an example of what threat there is to my ground and he couldn't come up with a good on. Because of this I told him to back off the value on the policy to $160,000 and that decreased my cost by 30%.


This is a MAJOR mistake. To be fair, your agent is wrong about considering land value. It has no significance, we want to insure to the cost to rebuild.

With that being said, the cost to "rebuild" is higher than the cost to "build" a home. We are often removing debris, protecting undamaged components, putting you up in a hotel, building top down instead of bottom up, trying to match components that are out of production, etc... You should demand that somebody other than the agent come out to your home and calculate a replacement cost. If they stutter, change companies.

Additionally, you have to insure 80% or more of tour home. If you're insurance is 50% of the replacement cost, you will NOT receive compensation for all of your damages and that is why you saved 30%.

So if replacement is $300k and you insure to $160k, that's 66% of what you should be insuring to. So when that hail storm comes and does $10,000 of damage, you will receive $6,600 minus your deductible and will not be happy you saved 30%.



TheLazyL said:


> I believe the Insurance Agent get a percentage of each policy he writes. The higher the value of the policy increases his income?


Average is 15% at banks and independents but your captive agents (farm bureau, state farm, am fam, etc...) get less, from 6-12% typically.



Sentry18 said:


> Many years ago after watching a buddy lose home and get screwed over by an insurance co. my Dad sat in his insurance agents office to upgrade his homeowners policy. He told the guy he wanted to be covered for fire, flood, tornado, theft, alien invasion, etc., etc., etc. He said "I want to be completely covered, do not leave me susceptible to anything". Flash forward 5 years later and his basement floods because of a problem with the city's sewer system. We spent days cleaning up and throwing things away and there was a substantial financial loss from things being stored down there. Same insurance agent said "sorry, you were not covered for sewer back up only natural events that cause flooding". My Dad laid into him until he looked like he was going to cry. The agent claimed my Dad only asked for the standard package. Dad filed a claim anyway which was denied, then he filed a lawsuit against the local agent and the insurance co. His main piece of evidence was an audio recording of his original meeting with the agent. They settled out of court. Many of his neighbors got nothing at all.


What you needed was Water Backup of Sewer and Drain which is optional. That covers dirty water coming back in through a plumbed fixture (sump pump, sewer, toilet, etc..). It is optional. You always have coverage for pipes bursting unless your house is vacant or your agent is a crook. You never have coverage for flooding unless you buy a separate policy.

Glad you prevailed in court!

Sorry this was done on my iPhone. Any other questions for the insurance nerd?


----------



## power

Insurance companies are in it for the money. Caring about the customer does not enter the picture.
If people would make new rules for insurance companies things would be much better for both the company and the customer.
The way it should be is that if you buy insurance you are protected against anything that will damage or destroy your property. Forget about all of these special things that insurance companies like to add on at an extra cost.
If you buy insurance you should be insured, end of the story.


----------



## bbqjoe

Insurance is mostly robbery, especially when you're required to have it.
I go between Geico and Liberty mutual just about every 4 or 5 years.

Geico starts me out at like $600 or so a year. 3-5 yeras later with no tickies or claims, it'll jump up to $800 or $1000.
I have the same conversation every time.

Me: Hey lady, how come my insurance is going up, when I have no claims?
Lady: Well, it's not because of you, it's just that there are a lot of claims being made by others.
Me: What's that got to do with me?
Lady: Well, this is a group policy, so when others make claims, your insurance goes up.
Me: So wait, If I have a claim, my insurance usually goes up right?
Lady: Yes.
Me: And if I don't have any accidents, instead of my insurance going down, it goes up?
Lady yes.
Me: So if I have an accident, why should I have to pay more?
Lady: Well, that's how it works.
Me: So, the other people don't pay for it?
Lady: They do pay for it.
Me: Well if they pay for it when I crash, why do I have to pay for it too?
Lady: Huh?
Me: I already paid for everyone else's crash when I didn't do it! They should pay for mine.
Lady: They do.
Me: Look, you can't have it both ways. You can't charge me more when I don't have an accident, then charge me more when I do have an accident.
Lady: That's just how it works!
Me: Not with this driver it doesn't!
Lady: What?
Me: Cancel my policy immediately!

I'm always surprised that they never hang up.

I then call the other guys, and get a new policy for about $600.

And we start the whole thing all over.

I've been doing this with these two over 20 years now. The funny thing is that someone told me they are both owned by the same people.


----------



## PreparedRifleman73

power said:


> Insurance companies are in it for the money. Caring about the customer does not enter the picture.
> 
> If people would make new rules for insurance companies things would be much better for both the company and the customer.
> 
> The way it should be is that if you buy insurance you are protected against anything that will damage or destroy your property. Forget about all of these special things that insurance companies like to add on at an extra cost.
> 
> If you buy insurance you should be insured, end of the story.


Yes, insurance companies are in it for the money. That's because we live in a quasi-free market where individuals and businesses alike are able to engage in pursuits for profits. Lucky for you, there isn't a monopoly (except flood insurance). If you feel your insurance company is not meeting your needs, go to a different one. It is the unreasonable demands of customers that create these issues - you can't demand Walmart prices and expect to be treated like a king.

You want to buy insurance that will cover ALL damage to your property? Your $3,000 policy excludes flood, earthquake, you damaging it on purpose and wear and tear/lack of maintenance. Do you want a $20,000 policy that'll cover all of that? Do you maintain your home? Clean the gutters, replace the roof when it is old, replace rotten windows? Because your neighbor doesn't. And with an all-inclusive policy, he is getting paid for that and you're funding it. Once you catch on to this, you decide to do the same. Now it is a $40,000 per year policy.

Do you prep for a power outage? I bet you can figure out the likelihood of that event happening based on historic outages. Maybe they are increasing or decreasing, maybe a new power plant will impact it. And maybe you factor a little extra for the low-probability and high-impact causes like an EMP. Cool. Now do that for everything. What are the odds (and severity) of an EMP, nuclear war, influenza, broken gutter, rotting window, lawn mower rock to the vinyl siding, etc... Price that product accurately and see how any people want to buy it.

Insurance companies respond to consumer demand and offer coverage that meets the need and can be priced in a sophisticated enough manner to generate a profit. Maybe you want earthquake coverage and your neighbor doesn't. Maybe Sentry18 doesn't need "mysterious disappearance" coverage on his guns because his place is a fortress and he can save premium; but maybe mine are in a wooden cabinet and I want to buy that.

This isn't a communist commune and insurance companies aren't our mommies. We are all big boys and girls that can analyze and prepare for our own risks, sometimes we choose to have insurance play a part in that due to the severity of the risk.

My two cents.


----------



## power

Why do you think Insurance companies have different insurance policies? For each thing they can add a little more to the cost. Insurance companies have found out that people will pay extra for something they should already have in the policy.

A few weeks ago I went to Harbor Freight to buy a garden fountain pump. The price was $39.99. When I was checking out the cashier asked if I wanted replacement insurance or replacement insurance. The cost of either was as much as the pump cost. I asked what would be the benefit of either. She said if the pump fails I can bring it back and they will replace it. I stated, if it fails I will bring it back to the store and want a replacement. She said that is also a choice. But that choice that is exactly like the policy they are selling is completely free. They just try to sell the customer something they already have and many people will buy it.

All insurance companies are the same. They will sell you something at an additional cost that should be included in the policy in the first place. This has been so successful that they have now dropped many of the things that were covered before because they can charge extra. Some people will still jump at the chance of paying extra for the same thing.


----------



## PreparedRifleman73

power said:


> Why do you think Insurance companies have different insurance policies? For each thing they can add a little more to the cost. Insurance companies have found out that people will pay extra for something they should already have in the policy.
> 
> A few weeks ago I went to Harbor Freight to buy a garden fountain pump. The price was $39.99. When I was checking out the cashier asked if I wanted replacement insurance or replacement insurance. The cost of either was as much as the pump cost. I asked what would be the benefit of either. She said if the pump fails I can bring it back and they will replace it. I stated, if it fails I will bring it back to the store and want a replacement. She said that is also a choice. But that choice that is exactly like the policy they are selling is completely free. They just try to sell the customer something they already have and many people will buy it.
> 
> All insurance companies are the same. They will sell you something at an additional cost that should be included in the policy in the first place. This has been so successful that they have now dropped many of the things that were covered before because they can charge extra. Some people will still jump at the chance of paying extra for the same thing.


Insurance companies offer different policies because the 200 million consumers don't have the same needs, wants or budgets.

This is a misunderstanding of the history of insurance. The marketplace began with only fire coverage and shortly thereafter wind was added. Now your typical policy literally would cover a zombie apocalypse (not kidding). The very minimum bare bones policy you can buy today exceeds the coverage of the most bells and whistles decked out policy even a few decades ago. Part of this is state government regulation, forcing all policies to have certain coverage.

People have more risks and are loss tolerant to retaining that risk themselves. There is a limit; do you really want coverage for maintance or nuclear war?

As far as the extended warranty at check out, that may be marketed as insurance but it certainly isn't. It's not worth buying.


----------



## power

When the insurance companies start writing policies for zombie apocalypse you can be sure they are taking advantage of the customer.
If a customer wants a policy to include zombie apocalypse the insurance company should not be allowed to take advantage of a person with their condition.


----------



## PreparedRifleman73

power said:


> When the insurance companies start writing policies for zombie apocalypse you can be sure they are taking advantage of the customer.
> 
> If a customer wants a policy to include zombie apocalypse the insurance company should not be allowed to take advantage of a person with their condition.


You said the following:

"The way it should be is that if you buy insurance you are protected against anything that will damage or destroy your property. "

Consumers want that so badly that policies now, instead of covering a list of things, cover everything BUT a list of things. Zombie apocalypse isn't on the list - so it is covered.

So how is this taking advantage of people when you want it to cover everything?


----------



## terri9630

phideaux said:


> Little story about my auto insurance.
> 
> We got our new premium for 6 months, last week.
> It went up like $75 ($150 yr),:dunno:
> 
> So I looked at it, and they added (without my consent) Breakdown repairs coverage , with $500 deductible, and Rental car coverage.
> 
> I own a 2 year old NEW car *under factory warranty*, and never take rental car coverage cuz I only use one vehicle at a time and I have a dandy truck . 2 vehicles.
> 
> I suppose many people just pay the new premium.:dunno:
> Thats a scam in my book.
> 
> oh btw, I got it taken off.
> 
> Jim


We got our renewal paperwork last week and it went up $30 a month. Since I've been sick I haven't gone over it yet to see why.


----------



## bugoutbob

You think insurance coverage is robbery ... imagine if you will... a province where vehicle insurance is mandated and the only one that offers coverage is the same province that requires you to have insurance. Now think of the billions of dollars of profits sucked out of the insurance company and put into general government revenues. Imagine that same company being stripped to the point where it's solvency is an issue. That's where we are and surprise, surprise, they are going to have to bump rates higher still to bring the company's liquidity up to acceptable standards. Our precious government robbing from both ends ... but don't get me started on insurance companies, I might be on the soapbox longer than some of my best sermons over the years


----------



## angie_nrs

bugoutbob said:


> You think insurance coverage is robbery ... imagine if you will... a province where vehicle insurance is mandated and the only one that offers coverage is the same province that requires you to have insurance. Now think of the billions of dollars of profits sucked out of the insurance company and put into general government revenues. Imagine that same company being stripped to the point where it's solvency is an issue. That's where we are and surprise, surprise, they are going to have to bump rates higher still to bring the company's liquidity up to acceptable standards. Our precious government robbing from both ends ... but don't get me started on insurance companies, I might be on the soapbox longer than some of my best sermons over the years


Hmmmm - kinda sounds like what Obamacare is doing to healthcare in the good ole' USA. I think the insurance companies and government are getting way too cozy. Insurance should be a choice......when that choice disappears, it's a tax!


----------



## LastOutlaw

As most here know I have family whose houses were under water in the SE Texas area that i just returned from helping dry out. One of them called us yesterday to tell us that the insurance company is now stating that their home will have to be raised 18 inches in order for their policy to continue. ???????
The water was 4 feet deep in their home. The estimated cost to jack the whole house up and pour an additional; 18 inches of foundation is over $100,000.00.
What good is 18 inches when the water comes up 4 feet?

Supposedly there is a meeting at the county with FEMA and they are talking about possibly buying everyone out in that area at estimated value plus 15%


----------



## TheLazyL

LastOutlaw said:


> ... the water comes up 4 feet?
> 
> Supposedly there is a meeting at the county with FEMA and they are talking about possibly buying everyone out in that area at estimated value plus 15%


I feel for those that flooded, lost some or all of their processions. They made the choice to live where they did and take the associated risk.

I live where weather has and could be again a factor. I've taken steps to protect my house. I didn't buy cut-rate insurance but instead purchased insurance that gave me protection that I felt was necessary. If my decisions and risks go sour that's on me. The Taxpayer through a Federal agency should NOT reimburse me. We talk about smaller government but then turn around and ....


----------



## LastOutlaw

TheLazyL said:


> I feel for those that flooded, lost some or all of their processions. They made the choice to live where they did and take the associated risk.
> 
> I live where weather has and could be again a factor. I've taken steps to protect my house. I didn't buy cut-rate insurance but instead purchased insurance that gave me protection that I felt was necessary. If my decisions and risks go sour that's on me. The Taxpayer through a Federal agency should NOT reimburse me. We talk about smaller government but then turn around and ....


I agree. We have spoken to this part of the family about emergency preparedness and they scoff at the idea. A generator, a couple of cases of gifted to them MREs and some extra batteries is about the max of their emergency preparedness. I know for a fact that we asked them if they have flood insurance a few years back and they told is it is waste of money because the water never comes that high. It would have cost them a few hundred extra dollars on their plan. They take vacations regularly and he likes to go to the casino and play poker a few times a week. They waste more money in a year than we earn.


----------



## angie_nrs

hawkmiles said:


> Hey all!
> First, most states have laws that prevent an insurance company from raising your rates due to certain types of claims (like weather, medical payments, etc...). While base rates may rise due to a hurricane or weather event, your individual policy can't be surcharged for use of that.
> 
> Second, insurance companies didn't have to foot the bill for folks who didn't insurance. I don't know if tax funding was involved, but I imagine it was.
> 
> 
> 
> First.........Yeah, I'm not buying it. Just b/c it's law doesn't make it so. Do you ever really know WHY the insurance company raises their rates on you? Nope, believe me I have tried to find out and my agent couldn't figure it out either. No claims, excellent credit rating, aging assets, longevity with ins. company......and still a 16% raise in rates. I'm SURE it would have been higher had I had a claim.....they just wouldn't have said that was the reason. I changed companies. It's a real PIA!
> 
> Second.....that's not completely accurate. I know for example in MI that anyone who buys work comp insurance also pays for the following accident fund:
> http://www.michigan.gov/wca/0,4682,7-191-26921---,00.html
> 
> Also anyone who buys auto insurance in MI gets to contribute to the MCAA:
> http://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog...ney-in-the-michigan-catastrophic-claims-fund/
> 
> So, yes those who don't buy insurance may still get benefits....which is why I wouldn't be surprised to hear of other instances where this happens. Lawyers bury stuff pretty darn deep! An insurance policy shouldn't be many pages long with lawyer speak throughout, but that's the way it is now b/c lawyers write the policies. It's just gotten to the point of being ridiculous. So many loopholes throughout the documents that a normal person just doesn't have the time to read through, nor understand. It is that way for a reason and it's not for the benefit of the person paying the premium.
> 
> This is why I titled this thread as a RANT. I'm glad we still have some choices but understanding those choices is getting to be too challenging for the average Jane/Joe. I called last week due to the Equifax breech and asked if I had ID theft protection on my policy. Guess what? Nope - it was an additional $7 per year to add that for $15,000 in coverage. I thought that was worth it, so I did add it, but it's not mentioned in my policy anywhere that I could see. I think it would be a whole lot easier to have a menu with boxes you can check if you want it along with how much it would cost. You could see exactly what is covered and what is not. It could be easy and straightforward, but then the lawyers would be out a job. I dream of a day where a menu of services and costs would be available as soon as you walk through the door of a hospital or doctors office as well.......I'm not holding my breath. Simplicity doesn't allow much room for corruption.
Click to expand...


----------

