# Slowly sinking into oblivion ??



## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

As of now it seems that fuel and food prices (which don't count for inflation don't ya know?) will keep creeping up and people will seem to reach the end of their rope. People have 2 basis choices : learn and adapt or whine and complain.
I have noticed that many people who whine about how short of money they are can afford to smoke and buy $3 coffee 
The weather is giving out some nasty surprizes to a lot of people , Is there a connection between the BP leak and europe's coller winter. Just a few degrees makes a lot of difference. those wet rainy costal areas get to be a white-nightmare if the temp stays below freezing for any length of time. 

Is this what it comes down to slow loss of the comfort zone ???:scratch


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

A slow sink is what my wife and I are think the future is going to be. People are going to have to eventually start cutting out the non essentialls which will drive a lot of already tetering places out of business... resulting in more unemployment, more cut backs, etc. We see this happening with a lot of municipalities as they are laying off LE which is resulting in crime creeping up. Sure it's probably desparate people looking for something for a quick pawn but it is still happening.

I expect the trend to continue as our overall standard of living goes down. A further divide between rich and poor with the middle class mostly going away and we'll be ripe for a lot of possible outcomes. Not looking forward to it, but it was this realization/belief about a year ago that got me looking into the whole survival/prep area. In the past 4 months I have taken many steps to get us started and assuming some major SHTF event doesn't happen within a year I expect we will be setup adequately. 

Also, over the past year we've had a number of friends and family reveal that they are not in good financial straights. For a few it was not unexpected but for some it came as quite a surprise.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

We have given up on eating out, even burgers. The last time we did about a month ago, we ordered cheese burgers and were charged $1.00 extra for each slice of cheese on the burgers. When we do get the urge to splurge, we think about the fact we have the ingredients at home to make the same dish we would order for a fraction of the cost. We have to conserve our money so we can purchase more preps. If you think of that as sacrifice, I think it is preparing us to face the hard times when the balloon goes up. By weaning ourselves from the "norms" of today's society we will be better prepared to face whatever difficulties are headed our way IMHO.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I still spend money on "fun" stuff, but, I have been needing to justify that spending to myself to decide if it is really worth it. I have cut-back on significant amount of frivolous spending, but, I still need to spend a little-bit on "myself" instead of just spending it on stuff that is "needed" for the house.

I might eat out a couple times a month which is a huge cut-back for myself from eating out almost daily ...


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Tirediron hit one example that I've seen right on the mark!

I remember some person complaining about money and they can make life choices and that's their business. Both she and her husband got morning and afternoon lattes, fraps, cuppicinos, mochas, etc., every work day, which many do in my area, but not most of those having financial difficulties. I way underestimated what this can run in Seattle, with the standard $1 tip a drink this can run about $15 a day, about $300 a month. A pack of cigarettes in a stop and rob can run up to $7 with the tax* and many of these folks won't buy a carton because they're "quitting" So that's easily $210 so that's $500 a month, their money, their choice, nothing wrong with that.

So...what dawns on me is I don't drink that stuff at that level and I don't smoke. 

WHAT AM I SPENDING MY MONEY ON?

Well, freeze dried, dehydrated, canned, and retort packaged food, medical supplies, medical barriers, assorted gear...and like the other folks, some might consider what I buy to be a big waste. It might well be. I actually pray I'll never have to use the vast majority of this stuff. I'd be happy knowing that the cans I buy this month 25 years from now will be unused and tossed. I figure most of this stuff will outlast me...but as with some here, it's our choice.

I was able to find some items still available and still low priced. I actually pray I'm wasting this money as I buy more #10 can's of freeze dried and dehydrated food!








*I heard that, but find it hard to believe! My gosh, find another store! Get a carton!


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> Tirediron hit one example that I've seen right on the mark!
> 
> I remember some person complaining about money and they can make life choices and that's their business. Both she and her husband got morning and afternoon lattes, fraps, cuppicinos, mochas, etc., every work day, which many do in my area, but not most of those having financial difficulties. I way underestimated what this can run in Seattle, with the standard $1 tip a drink this can run about $15 a day, about $300 a month. A pack of cigarettes in a stop and rob can run up to $7 with the tax* and many of these folks won't buy a carton because they're "quitting" So that's easily $210 so that's $500 a month, their money, their choice, nothing wrong with that.
> 
> ...


Nice post---and I feel the same...except, my food and supplies will not be wasted...after a while, as I'm much older than you, I'm sure...my husband and I are gonna eat this stuff!!


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

JayJay said:


> Nice post---and I feel the same...except, my food and supplies will not be wasted...after a while, as I'm much older than you, I'm sure...my husband and I are gonna eat this stuff!!


:2thumb:That's positive! I love the idea of a rotation with something that's got a 25 year shelf life!!!


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## BizzyB (Dec 10, 2010)

The woman in line in front of me yesterday took forever to check out. From the looks of it, she bought the entire clothes department. Piles and piles of warm, fuzzy stuff. She explained to the cashier that she was buying Christmas gifts for a needy family. There were no toys, just warm clothes. When it was my turn to check out I chatted with the cashier that I'd heard on the radio that retailers were doing well this year, but it was "outerwear" that was driving the success and not things like electronics -- outerwear like that lady was buying instead of toys for the needy family. The cashier said, "That's all my grandkids are getting from me! Everyone I know has the heat turned way back." My Inlaws asked for warm clothes for Christmas, as did the BrotherB family. That, to me, sounds like a trend.


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## HardenedPrepper (Dec 15, 2010)

Alot of people tell me I waste money on everything I buy, but the fact is it's all prepping stuff and they just don,t understand. The last 15 yrs almost everything that I have bought met my 3 criteria, #1needs to make me and my kids more self sufficient, #2 needs to be dual purpose, #3 or needs to make us money. We will survive and be comfortable


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## preppingsu (Aug 7, 2010)

same in the UK. Prices of food and fuel are shooting up. Heating oil has doubled in price, talk of it being rationed over the winter too!
This year my kids are getting underwear, sweaters, socks and other pratical items. No electronics this year.
We've even agreed with family not to buy pressies this year as money is tight for all of us.
I've started to think about buying the kids some clothes in bigger sizes and store them away until they fit. Might be able to get some bargins in the sales after christmas!


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

This article appeared in a local paper today and I found it again here:

Another voice: For the middle class, bad times even during good times

The Middle Class in the U.S. and many other western countries is losing economic security. Benefits are being eroded, jobs are being outsourced, and "permanent" positions are becoming shorter term "contract" positions. Where we used to be able to say: "I've got a good job," now the best we can say is "I've got a good job for now." We might have a good job for 1 to 3 years and then no job, and then a contract job, and then no job, and then a good job for 1 to 3 years, and then no job, etc. It has vicious effects on our long-term ability to buy homes, squirrel away resources for retirement, and stay solidly middle class. It truly is scary.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

It's almost a 'religion' with me now, if I can't verify it's American made??

I put it down, go elsewhere, or if possible, do without.

Like my weather radio??

$25 at walmart...$25 at k-mart---$50 at Lowe's but, made in Missouri.

I helped someone keep a job...and if we think we can survive like the Chinese on $2 a day...we are in la-la land.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I don't know...from what I see, a $25 object in Walmart is the $32 in Target, is the $50 item in Lowes and same name brand or not, all made overseas.

Walmart has the same brands I see in other stores. How are the same water filters sold in Walmart some how different at Home Depot although they are much more expensive there? The same pens I might buy at Office Depot are a fraction of the price at Walmart. I get a 16 oz Johnny's Seasoning Salt, made here in Washington for less at Walmart than a small container at Albertsons.

With a Lowe's brand like Kobalt, you're buying Chinese made power tools. Their hand tools are made in the United States, Mexico and China.

Some Snap On tools are made in Taiwan http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...=20240&supersede=&store=snapon-store&tool=all

As for somethings, I just can't see buying American. If I can buy


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Yes, SNT, I see your point, most stuff is made in the same place and labeled for different stores, who then charge different prices. True.

But JayJay indicated she checked and her weather radio was made in Missouri. 

One thing I know to check for is whether an item was REALLY made in the USA, or just looks like the label says it does, and in reality it was only distributed by an american company, but was actually made in China or some other place. Sometimes it can be hard to know for sure. I've gone to company websites and even made calls, when it was important to me, especially with food items. 

So, hopefully JayJay's radio really was made in Missouri. While much of our industry has gone overseas, not all of it has. There are still things made in the USA (Canadian is next-best!  )


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## GatorDude (Apr 23, 2009)

I think it is pretty key now to have a solid economic survival plan in place before blowing money on expensive guns, gear, and vehicles.

Building an Economic Survival Plan

Saving moolah, eliminating debts, career development, and developing alternate revenue streams are just plain crucial. The self-reliance, self-sustaining, and thrift aspects of survival are probably the most important aspects of prepping for this slow economic decline of the west.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I prep for higher probability situations and plan for lower probability scenarios.

I'm not concerned so much about where things are made, I'm worried about durability and price. My pidly amount of income isn't going to help or hurt this economy and but what some don't understand is through markets we can prevent war. 

China is so interested and invested in us as a market that they don't want or need a war. The same works for us in other places. International trade is fantastic for peace. Free trade is one of the devices that has helped Western Europe enjoy their longest period of peace in history.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Thank you, Gypsysue--you actually got the point of my post.....I am smart enough to know the difference in made in USA and packaged in ?? or distributed in ???...be careful of those too!!
Little buggers try to fool us...:scratch

And for those who actually give a crap--like I--there are websites that publish the truly made in USA companies...I searched until I got a flag made here.


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

I think if any part of the manufacturing is done in the US they can claim it's made in America. I saw a show years ago about clothes make completely overseas and shipped here to have the made in america tag sewn in.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

nj_m715 said:


> I think if any part of the manufacturing is done in the US they can claim it's made in America. I saw a show years ago about clothes make completely overseas and shipped here to have the made in america tag sewn in.


See, more of those little tricks by the sneaky buggers!!


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Now here's an odd one,some years ago I worked in a factory that made bathroom sets.there was one special run we did that was tufted on site,dyed on site,and had tags proudly proclaiming they were made in MEXICO sewed in on site...never did figure that out but the ******** working there lorded it over us for weeks!:surrender:

Will the last American to evacuate please take down the flag and overload the nuclear power plants?:soapboxrant:


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

JayJay said:


> And for those who actually give a crap--like I--there are websites that publish the truly made in USA companies...I searched until I got a flag made here.


We've been following these sites for awhile. Unfortunately some of their info is dated. Since being listed the manufacturer has switched over to China production so still check the product labeling too.

As much as we can we also by American. I've seen too many friends lose their jobs that I prefer to try to keep the money local. I can't see the US getting back to a major manufacturing economy any time soon (if ever again) but I believe in supporting those willing to stick it out.


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## PopPop (Sep 14, 2010)

I get pretty angry over the amount of manufacturing we have lost to China. The day our glorious leaders granted China "Most Favored Nation" trading status, was the day we signed our own death warrant. There is absolutly no way that we would ever be able to compete with China. Now when we shop we have little choice but to buy Chinese made BS. Chinese Factories do not have to contend with OSHA, EPA, the Labor Dept, Unions, the spotted owl or a snail darter. Investors, tired of the overburden associated with US regulation flocked to China and now our neighbors can not get a job. As for slowly sinking into Oblivion, I think we have just about completed our mad dash towards the darkest period in human history that the world has ever seen. The Chasm is very close and we are speeding up!


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## nj_m715 (Oct 31, 2008)

I used to do my best to buy American, converse old school sneakers and new balance were both made here. I don't know if they still are. But I got a nasty back injury in a crash and our income has dropped A LOT. Now I have to be as frugal as possible in order to keep things together. I understand the ripple effect of my actions, but I buy most of my stuff from walmart or any place that has the best prices. I just don't have much choice. A $15 pair of sneakers leaves $30 or $40 left for food. It is what it is. 
They tell me there's a light at the end of the tunnel and I'll get a "good" settlement. But that's not repairing the damage done to my body or changing the fact that we are living off of our equity loan right now. I'd love to buy American, I just can't.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

I'm doing OK, but I can't afford to buy American. I can't afford the subsequent repair and replacement bills for our level of 'quality'.


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

SurviveNthrive said:


> I'm doing OK, but I can't afford to buy American. I can't afford the subsequent repair and replacement bills for our level of 'quality'.


Unfortunately I see the same issues with most asian/pacific rim made products. Even stuff like Sony (made in china... at least for the Sony products I looked at) which used to be quality stuff. Almost everything these days seems to be made to be disposable or just to costly to repair.

Even something as simple as a broom. If the handle breaks it's a couple bucks cheaper to get a new handle but if the head breaks you're paying the same as for a whole new broom. And I see the same thing with a lot of different products.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

CulexPipiens said:


> We've been following these sites for awhile. Unfortunately some of their info is dated. Since being listed the manufacturer has switched over to China production so still check the product labeling too.
> 
> As much as we can we also by American. I've seen too many friends lose their jobs that I prefer to try to keep the money local. I can't see the US getting back to a major manufacturing economy any time soon (if ever again) but I believe in supporting those willing to stick it out.


Agreed...thanks for reminding how important mom and pop stores are--I have no Lowe's or Home Depot local...so the hardware store is it---waaaaay before I go to 'chinamart'..:gaah:

Thanks again..like I said, I pay a little more, but the revenue taxes stay:2thumb: in our county and not the one next door with Lowe's and others.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

CulexPipiens said:


> Almost everything these days seems to be made to be disposable or just to costly to repair.


Amen. My husband calls it 'disposable society.' Everything is geared toward consumerism rather than manufacturing to last.


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## HistoryStu (Dec 28, 2010)

*China as competition*

I recently blogged about China as a competitor for resources. We are losing out to the Chinese on the job front and are also in competition with them for oil and food. Throw in resource scarcity, environmental change and price inflation and we are going to see massive change soon.

Check out my blog at Christopher Clausen's Blog


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