# Tiny Homes in your area?????????



## readytogo

Every time I come across one of this articles I wonder in what city this is taking place because major metropolitan cities have building codes and zoning's you have to obey and I know for a fact that in my city you are not allow to live in a trailer park in your property period, an official trailer park is a different thing or areas approved by zoning codes for mobile homes and if I wanted to downsize my home it would require a neighborhood voted for zoning approval any way. I don`t think the owners of a $800,000.00 home would approved a tiny home next to theirs no matter how pretty it looks.Out in open country is a different matter and still there could be zoning codes to deal with. 
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/i-spe...what-micro-living-is-all-about-173756547.html


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## weedygarden

I was in North Dakota this summer, and there are many man camps in the oil field area of northwest N.D. I saw several tiny homes in those man camps as I drove through.


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## tsrwivey

It depends on where you live. Here in east Texas, you could build what you want wherever you want unless there are deed restrictions placed by a previous owner on the particular piece of property you buy. There are more restrictions on mobile homes & where they can be put inside the city limits, so you'd have to make sure the tiny house wasn't classified as a mobile home.


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## Grimm

weedygarden said:


> I was in North Dakota this summer, and there are many man camps in the oil field area of northwest N.D. I saw several tiny homes in those man camps as I drove through.


I'd have loved seeing these.


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## ONEOLDCHIEF

Want to build one of these to use as hunting camp...


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## weedygarden

They are definitely not for everyone.

I think they have so much potential. I also think they can be home built relatively easily. I say that and I realize there is a lot of time in building one. Once the trailer is set up to specs, I think they could be built a little here and a little there, weekends, evenings, etc. as time and money allow.

There are h.s. shop classes that are building these. It gives a student the opportunity to see the process of building a home (minus a foundation and in ground utilities) on a smaller scale.

Also, they are being built by some teenagers.

If you built one and used it for college or your single days, it could be sold and the money used as a down payment on a larger home.

A young man, the son of a former colleague got hired this summer by a company to help build these.


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## Moose33

Fad, trend or not, I like them. Part of the problem in this country is consumerism. I'm as guilty as the next person of having g WAY too much stuff. I've been on a tear recently clearing out. 

I don't think I could live in 200 square feet but 500 is easily do-able. I live in about 1,300 now (not including the basrment) and I do wish it was smaller.


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## tsrwivey

weedygarden said:


> If you built one and used it for college or your single days, it could be sold and the money used as a down payment on a larger home.


One of our daughters & SIL are going to spend the first few years of their married life living in a travel trailer. They found a sweet deal on a nice one for $6000. It will save them a ton of money that they will use to buy or build a house later.

I wish more young people would set themselves up to succeed financially. It's so hard for them to understand what a stressor money can be & how devastating money mistakes can be.

Tiny homes are something I hope catches on.


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## readytogo

*Tiny Dome Homes*

Tiny homes are not new in many European countries to include Japan they have been used for many years now especially because land is very expensive but my understanding is that as long as they have wheels they are consider trailers or mobile homes. I like the idea but if I was going to build one it would be a Dome type of structure http://tinyhousetalk.com/category/dome-homes/,fiberglass or spray cement shell,very energy efficient no upkeep and wind and snow resistant.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/joemoconnell/sets/72157631151284770/


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## Ozarker

I'm a fan as well. I'm single, retired, don't entertain more than 1 or 2 folks 3 times a year (meaning I don't really entertain) and have thought about it myself. I just don't want a big place to take care of, clean and repair, mowing a 1/2 acre lot, picking up fallen limbs and trim the place. All a guy needs is a place to sleep, eat, take care of business and wash up, play some and enjoy a cold one. I have rooms in the house I've not been in some rooms for years other than to clean and touch up, yet they get heat and cooled. Dumb. If the kids come up to visit, I can put them in a motel with room service and amenities like exercise room and indoor pool cheaper than paying the upkeep on the house just for them. 

As to tiny homes being allowed, I have a building I'm making repairs to now. I could convert it into a small living entertaining or special use space and call it a garden cottage, an in-law quarters or my pool house. The assessor would count it as an improvement. The electrical and plumbing needs to pass inspection the building is existing. It wouldn't have to be viewed as living space but as an outdoor amenity. 
No one can tell you that you can't sleep out on the patio or in your backyard. I could say it's my HAM shack for emergency communications and that limits several ordinance issues as federal law excepts such operations. My station doesn't have to be in my house. 

I'd say it could be very hard to enforce restrictions if you owned the main house, define "living in" as opposed to living at that residence! A gated community with an HOA could be harder to get past. I'd also have the right to rent the house, just as an owner can have a boarder live-in (I don't know if the college girls would rather have the tiny house or the big house, ROTFLOL) (No, I'm not a perv, it's a great way to meet moms!)

If you just have a city lot, zoning will probably get you, you need a main home and then add the maid's quarters. 

If you build on a trailer, register the trailer as an RV and put tags on it.

Lease a pond from a farmer, build it on pontoons and call it a boat, that should be cheap living. Put it on a lake or river, you'll need to move it around, anchor 200 feet away, then move it back every other day, gotta know what the regs are and follow them.....that can be a pain, but people do it. 

I figure if I don't like it, I can always rent it to some college kid and get them to take care of the yard. Who knows, maybe family could move in. I'm wanting to travel too, so no home chores is a plus.


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## tsrwivey

I don't get why they just don't buy a travel trailer :dunno: most of them are self contained, small, include space saving furniture/fixtures & often have all of the tiny appliances, fixtures, & heating & AC units included in the price. All that tiny stuff is EXPENSIVE!!!


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## JustCliff

I will be building one in the next two months. I'm not quite sure about the final dimensions yet but, it will be tiny. It will be a place for my mom to spend the rest of her years. She says she doesn't want much.


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## Woody

No, nothing like that going up in my area, that I have seem anyway. Maybe is some more rural locations, but unlikely. The only 'smaller' homes around are older farmhouses that are torn down for developments with 4,000 sq ft new 'homes'.

I don't know how else to put it... The American dream is to live in too large a home, with all the fixin's. When I was employed in corporate, EVERYONE had a fancy home. I never gave anyone grief but always chuckled. They'd have the formal 'dining room' that was used a few times a year for Turkeyday and such. Other than that, even entertaining, they used the 'breakfast nook' or the counter with seats. Two extra bedrooms AND bathrooms... Just in case they needed them. Not to mention the large, landscaped yard which they either pay to have someone keep or spend all weekend keeping up. With NOTHING edible in it either. Talk in summer was about the electric bills to cool, winter was the bills to heat the places.

In PA I lived in a 24' x 28' two story 1856 farmhouse. 100% Gutted and remodeled it while living in it. I took my time with the upstairs as the first floor was more than I actually needed. Since moving to NC I have had two places, both 2 bath, 3 bedroom homes. One bedroom and bath were never used, storage maybe. The livingroom was much more than I actually needed in both. I pick the smallest bedroom as mine and use the large 'master bedroom and bath' for storage. Not heated or cooled. Speaking of that... Why do folks need a HUGE bedroom? I use mine for sleep, changing clothes (for work not home living) and maybe a little fun. It has been a LONG time since I wasn't single, but remember even two people could happily share that space. I just went in and checked... From my bed, the dresser is 36" away. Stand up, take a step and open a drawer. Room for a second dresser right beside it. The closet is 3 steps away, 8' from where I get out of bed. The door, two from that. Why do I need to take 3 or 5 steps to get to a dresser or closet?... Sorry, getting OT.

200 Sq. Ft. might be a little tight, even for a bachelor with puppy, but doable. The hard part, for me here in NC, would be using anything but electric heat for those chilly nights or mornings. You would need to find the perfect little wood stove to fire up, take the chill off then have it die out before the sun rose. If it gets too warm inside, even having the windows open will not let it cool down enough for the day. Then you need to trap enough of that heat to last the night, or get a small fire going in the morning.

With any micro-home, outbuildings would be key. Heck, I believe my shed with garden implements and automotive supplies is larger than that! Add onto them food and sundry supplies, you need a few outbuildings.


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## HardCider

A small, heavily insulated tiny house, heated with wood, is a great start to a resilient, independent homestead. It would also need a larger barn or two just to store supplies and equipment. But what farm doesn't have outbuildings


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## readytogo

*Don`t bite more than you can chew*

It seems to me that the American dream has become a nightmare for many, big everything while not realizing that it cost more to up keep, the goose that was laying the golden eggs has dry up and now and after generations of empty minds the realization that our forefathers and elders had the right idea and logic, make do with what you can, not with what you want was my father`s advice to me,pass on to my children now.Many complain about the economy blame the government but never take a look around the big living room or master dining room they never visit but have to keep cool or warm,at a cost..Gluttony apply s to many things.


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## tsrwivey

HardCider said:


> A small, heavily insulated tiny house, heated with wood, is a great start to a resilient, independent homestead. It would also need a larger barn or two just to store supplies and equipment. But what farm doesn't have outbuildings


With our hot, humid climate, I don't think out buildings would cut it. When you store food over 75 degrees, the shelf life starts to plummet. The humidity will rust the canned goods in a year, putting the seal in jeopardy (I've got that t-shirt). Seems like climate controlling the out buildings would just be a house with detached rooms, which would defeat the purpose of having a tiny house. I just don't know what you'd do with all the stored food, medicine, etc. :dunno:

I have seen a couple go up around here on the outskirts of town. I'll try to take pics & post them.


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## TheLazyL

Woody said:


> ...The American dream is to live in too large a home, with all the fixin's....formal 'dining room' that was used a few times a year for Turkeyday and such. ....


Yep. I agree with you 100%

My wife (as a child) first house was a chicken coop on her grandparents farm. No running water and a bucket for the pot.

Her father wasn't able to keep a job so they were constant moving from rental to rental. One year she lived in 3 different houses in 3 different school districts.

15 years ago I built her, her dream home. :surrender:

Formal dining room that is used a few times each year. We used the breakfast nook for our meals.

Formal living room used 3 or 4 times a year.

Her house is a security that she never had growing up and "proof" that she is OK.

I did put my foot down on building a family room in the basement. Why have a family room when we have a living room that is barely used?


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## weedygarden

tsrwivey said:


> I don't get why they just don't buy a travel trailer :dunno: most of them are self contained, small, include space saving furniture/fixtures & often have all of the tiny appliances, fixtures, & heating & AC units included in the price. All that tiny stuff is EXPENSIVE!!!


I totally get your point.

I understand that travel trailers are not as well insulated as Tiny Home can be. That is probably not as much a concern in the south as it is in the north, such as North Dakota where winters can be brutal.

Tiny Homes can be made with many options for layouts, materials, appliances, size and more. Yes, there is a lot of variety in travel trailers.

Building your own tiny house can give people lots of building experience. I am fascinated at how many (but not all) young people are into learning to make things for themselves.

Growing up, I lived in a small town fairly close to the Missouri River where there were many dams being built. There were many people who moved to my home town for a period of time to do their piece of building the dam and electrical power supply from them. I knew people that moved their trailer to the location where their piece of the work was. I know at least one family that moved 6 times. There are people who have the need to relocate fairly often due to work.

I think of the men I know personally who are working in the oil fields in North Dakota, but have families elsewhere. A tiny house would be an option for them, especially given how cold it is in those parts.

I think of people who are unemployed or underemployed who could build these tiny homes as a way to supplement their incomes. This is certainly not for everyone.

I think of homeless people who could build one of these or have access to something like them. I know there are people who are genuinely interested in working, but are struggling in keeping their heads above water.

These are some of my thoughts. I have more!


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## TheLazyL

weedygarden said:


> ...there are people who are genuinely interested in working, but are struggling in keeping their heads above water. ...


Get married.

Two incomes.

Prove to the Bride that she didn't marry a bum.

Borrow for a house.

Borrow for the furniture.

Borrow for the refrigerator with the automatic ice cube and water dispenser.

Borrow for 2 vehicles.

Borrow for the vacation.

Automatic credit card monthly payment (loan) for the wide screen TV and satellite sports package.

One income until the baby is old enough to stay at a babysitter.

Overtime cut, medical bills, THE bills, the stress resulting in fighting over money problems.

Expense from the divorce.

Wonder what went wrong.


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## nightwing

people do get the cart before the horse but we live in a completely different world you have to have a cell phone for employment you need a address and many times you may need a bill to verify your address.

A good job requires references and most jobs do not have face to face interviews and you have to have a E-mail address and a credit score.
many even do background checks.

before you even start many jobs are not open to most young people just starting out one they have these amenities they fell the need for looking like a up and coming individual so they need a bed furniture etc.

furnished apartments are not the norm and decent flop houses are infested with thieves and dope heads so people want a better safer area and that costs at least a couple of hundred more.

even a bus pass added to all the other costs to live eliminates the ability for an hourly worker to save.
most entry level jobs you have to buy uniforms shoes and shirt that no one would wear anywhere else and all before you make the first check.
and most want to hold back a week or 2 depends on when their pay day is.

I have had to help a few young people to get started and don't get me started on construction entry level jobs.
steel toed boots hard hat gloves and sometimes other special equipment.

it is getting more difficult and complicated and I see that it will only get worse, as some jobs you have to have a HS check copies of all your papers like SSI card I.D. card and some even require that you have a credit card.
So if you don't have a family support group it is almost impossible 
some children are from families that are drunks and dope heads and do not even know where they were born. because they were abandon or orphaned and left to the street.


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## LincTex

tsrwivey said:


> I don't get why they just don't buy a travel trailer - most of them are self contained, small, include space saving furniture/fixtures & often have all of the tiny appliances, fixtures, & heating & AC units included in the price. All that tiny stuff is EXPENSIVE!!!


I don't like travel trailers because:
1) They are not well insulated
2) They are built light - to pull. Because of this, they wear out quickly when used on a daily basis.
3) I don't think they are inexpensive at all.

My B-O-L is 8 x 12 and very closely resembles this place. Best of all, it is insulated well because it has full stud walls, AND since it was built with mainly used/recycled/scrap materials, it was less than $1000 to build. (it has no wheels under it though). It also has a much larger front porch attached where this one doesn't.

http://tinyhousetalk.com/japanese-tiny-home/


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## ZoomZoom

Let's address the 900-pound gorilla in the room.

What happens if you or your significant other farts... in the winter... after eating chili?


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## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> Let's address the 900-pound gorilla in the room.
> 
> What happens if you or your significant other farts... in the winter... after eating chili?


It would be best to step outside. A porch that at least "enclosed" somewhat will keep you out of the rain... though a little extra wind would come in handy!


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## TheLazyL

ZoomZoom said:


> Let's address the 900-pound gorilla in the room.
> 
> What happens if you or your significant other farts... in the winter... after eating chili?


You quickly extinguish the kerosine lantern.  And you are reminded of breathing good old country air down wind from your neighbor spreading fresh manure.


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## Ozarker

ZoomZoom, don't eat chili!

Long ago I thought about putting up some cabins for a recreational area. They needed to be inexpensive and used year round and look cool enough that people would enjoy it. The best acceptable plan was a 12x12 center unit with a higher roof and then 8x12 sheds on all four walls, the center unit was open to each "shed room". One shed room was together with the center unit forming a 12x18 open living space, one shed was the bedroom behind the living room, that would be 10x8 as 2' was taken from the living room with a non-load bearing wall. That also gave a 2' shelf above that bedroom. One shed was the bath and the other was a U shaped kitchen with an eating bar. Zero clearance fireplace on the living room side of the bedroom wall. 
A deck outside the kitchen unit and running the 10' to the end of the living room was a casual entry. Another deck outside the bedroom and bath units had a sliding door from the bedroom. 

That was the base cabin, another had the center unit higher providing a loft from that shelf off the bedroom wall. 

All built on piers (RR ties), skirted below, no foundation, shed roof off each for sides, shed roof on the higher center unit, metal roofs. Exterior rough plywood siding with battens giving a board on batten look. Think storage under the decks as well, you can use metal roofing under the decking putting in a roof over stored items, an access panel or door in the skirting provides out of sight storage. 

It's the open space between each module (except the bath and bedroom, and the bedroom could be done with a half wall for privacy and furniture placement) that gives an interior view 20'x12' in two directions. 

It's not a "tiny home" but under 500 sq ft, two would be comfortable, more for shorter weekend stays. Larger than most motel rooms. 

Use apartment size stove and fridge, I'd not use RV appliances as they really aren't residential quality. If you gave gas or propane I'd suggest hot water on demand. 

Using out buildings is a good way to go, much of what we have doesn't need to be in a heated or cooled space. As to HVAC, look into ductless air conditioning and heating, Mistsubishi (SP?) has nice ones, popular in Europe and South America, we North Americans are really the only ones using central air and heat in residential properties.

Just a though, okay, several


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## readytogo

*Tiny home and legal*

Many opinions on tiny homes but in today`s modern world and with all the technology available there is no reason why anyone can`t build a home well insulated for any weather and with plenty space for normal living. Or buy a kit home ready to be delivered to your property for the cost of a new car/truck.


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## weedygarden

weedygarden said:


> I think they have so much potential. I also think they can be home built relatively easily. I say that and I realize there is a lot of time in building one. Once the trailer is set up to specs, I think they could be built a little here and a little there, weekends, evenings, etc. as time and money allow.


One of my cousin's sons is working in the oil fields of North Dakota. They are charging high prices for everything, because they can. He told his mom that milk is $9.00 a gallon. I have no idea what he pays for a room or how it works where he stays. There are many variables and possibilities.

Another cousin who is working there works 4 weeks on and 2 weeks off.

I also think a tiny house would be relatively easy to add solar to, giving it more potential to live off grid. Many of them have on demand water heaters. Hooking up to water off grid would be much more of a challenge, but doable.
One of these guys is from Montana, one from South Dakota. They cannot find decent work where they are from. Both have young families to support.

I would say if they worked for 4 weeks and then had 2 or 3 weeks off, the time off would be a good time to start building one of these. Every time they had time off, set a reasonable goal of something to get done, as well as having some good family time. Yes, it would take some time to get one of these built, but when it was livable, they could haul it there and live in it. When the whole gig is up, they could haul it home, sell it, or whatever.

One of the man camps I drove by had what originally looked like mobile homes that were sub-divided into 4 separate living quarters, with 4 entrances. How does that compare to a tiny home? Live like that for a couple years and when you are done, you have nothing. Build a tiny home and when you are done you could sell it for $20,000 or more.


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## weedygarden

*Lydia's Tiny House*

http://tinyhouselistings.com/la-casita-lydias-tiny-house/

A young woman has done the contracting of her own tiny house. This link tells the story, but does not have as many photos as I would like.



> If there is one thing about Lydia, it is that she is an inspirational person who gets things done. She was just seventeen years old when she first heard about tiny houses. Then eighteen when she really started to obsess over them. Clearly a person who thinks about her future, at that young age (in 2008) she had already in earnest started saving money for a large project. All her savings were being tucked away without really knowing what she would be putting the money toward. Then in 2011 she bought Fencl plans from the Tumbleweed company and from there became committed to the idea of building, owning and living in her own tiny house.
> 
> In early spring of the following year Lydia had saved the $30,000 dollars that it would cost her to build tiny house La Casita, and the project was started. The house was largely a DIY but Lydia exuberantly credits those who gave her a hand:
> 
> I had tons of help! The house was framed by a local trade school, which only took a few weeks. They started construction in early March 2012. Mid-April my friend Adam pulled the house from the school to my parents' back yard, where we started the finish work. I had so much support - an electrician friend did the wiring, Troy Hudson, a friend of mine, helped so much with the finish carpentry, another friend lent me a bunch of tools, I borrowed a table saw from a co-worker, my father's friend did the cabinets, another friend let me take his truck every day while he was at work so I could haul lumber. I had people find me at my workplace to ask if they could help. It was amazing.
> 
> During the building she also hired two professionals for the parts that she felt she and her friends were not qualified to do. She was nervous about making a mistake on the propane so she had a plumber take care of this job. Too, an insulator was brought in to do the spray foam insulation because this requires specialized application.
> 
> Anxious to get into her own home, Lydia moved in before the house was completed. She slept in the loft while working on the main floor. The build, start to finish, took her eight months; but she admits to taking some long breaks because the process was absolutely exhausting. In the fall when the house was finished, Lydia (then 22 years of age) owned her own self built house, outright!
> 
> So far she lives in the house only 8 months a year, because she and her partner have been traveling more than usual. However, she is planning on relocating to the much warmer British Columbia Coast. Where she explains "I hope to live in it full time. That's always been the plan, but Canadian winters do tend to encourage travel around that time." True Saskatoon is colder than ice all winter long but she also adds that her tiny house "is certainly warm enough to live in year round, even in Saskatchewan". Having visited that cold city last week, I will add a credit to the person who did the insulating on Lydia's house. I honestly would never have thought that a tiny house could stay warm in a climate like theirs. This said, the house uses a 20 lb bottle of propane every two weeks, to stay warm during those cold months.
> 
> As far as the move to BC goes she is hoping to trade odd jobs for a little square of backyard until she can buy land. She has of course already sent out a query and a bunch of people responded to the search. She says, "lots are amenable to a trade or swap rather than cash rent." Good news for any other tiny houser or tiny house hopefuls that need to make similar arrangements.
> 
> When asked if she has any thoughts to share with those who find her path inspiring she suggests "If you are looking for a sign that you should do it, this is it." and goes on to say:
> 
> Living tiny has changed my life in more ways than I initially imagined. It started as an eco-friendly alternative to a mortgage and wound up being an integral part of my life. My partner and I are currently in New Zealand on the money we save on rent, learning about permaculture so that we can eventually provide food for ourselves sustainably. It's enforced minimalism and a cultural commentary and a way to tread lightly on the earth all rolled into one. And I love it.
> 
> After hearing from this brilliant young woman, who has been a real pleasure to get to know, I had to wonder if Lydia has any regrets. She does. Like other tiny houses with tightly sloped lofts she wishes she had a little more head room up there and thinks that dormers in the loft would have been nice. In the list of possible things that can go wrong in 24 years of living, you have to admit that not having dormers is massively tiny.


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## weedygarden




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## Ozarker

Cute. 

I don't really care for the concept of a modified storage building on wheels. I think you'd be better off starting with a decent travel trailer and modifying it with better insulation, plumbing, HVAC and perhaps windows if transport was important to you. They are built to go over the road, home construction techniques don't work well twisting, wind shear, bouncing and flexing. 

In colder climates you have skirting and insulation issues under the frame of a trailer, plumbing freezing and critters get under the thing.

Trailers don't do well in storms either, you can anchor all you like but the thing won't be as stable and secure as a fixed building.

It's more expensive to build on a trailer, frame, axel, shocks, torsion bars, whatever, some suspension, wheels and tires probably with brakes are more costly than concrete. Then you have wood attached ton steel, that means bolted instead of nailing lumber, while there are still bolts, there are more with a trailer. 

Drains and tanks hang below, exposed to road conditions and are exposed. Drag a trailer over a hump and knock off your drain line. Black water tanks are not fun to mess with. 

Then you have hookups, not the best connections. 

Mobility is great, but you can't park that just anywhere. Nothing stealth about it, people will gather, if it's a camper travel trailer looking thing it won't get a second thought. The troopers might stop you just to check the width and roadway compliance, they see a travel trailer and it's just another TT.

Then, for the cost of those Tymbleweeds, you can build a better house.

Building on skids can give you some mobility and still be bolted down as a conventional build.

It's not really a tiny house and it's not a good trailer set up, a novelty like putting a big outboard motor on a sail boat and calling it a motorsailor. They aren't good sailboats and they aren't good motorboats.

Walking in the trailer is a different feeling than on a solid foundation that doesn't tip or sway, if the trailer is rocking, don't come knocking! 

Then, like mobile homes where they haul it out and set up, take the wheels, axels and tongue off, bolted to a foundation, still not as secure as a conventional home build, but much better than a trailer. But a conventionally built house on piers can be moved too on a lowboy. 

From a factory commercial approach it makes sense to build as a trailer, but they aren't living in it either. 

The upside, a trailer can be financed, a tiny home as a conventional residence will be tough to get a loan on. Solution is get a loan on the land if you own it and build your own conventional tiny house. IMO.


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## LincTex

I just don't get the prices... 
even starting with a $2500 flatbed trailer (which are FAR better built than travel trailers, BTW)

I can build the same 8 x 16 "little house" on pier-and-beam for way less than $10,000 even!!


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## weedygarden

LincTex said:


> I just don't get the prices...
> even starting with a $2500 flatbed trailer (which are FAR better built than travel trailers, BTW)
> 
> I can build the same 8 x 16 "little house" on pier-and-beam for way less than $10,000 even!!


I think you are correct about this. I personally am not sure about what is causing the high cost of these except that I wonder if it is the materials?

http://tinyhousetalk.com/diy-tiny-house-for-3500/

http://tinyhousetalk.com/diy-tiny-house-on-a-trailer-for-5500/

Maybe we could start by listing the building materials.

The typical tiny home is built on an 8' x 20' trailer frame that is heavy duty, not just any trailer frame. I have no idea what that costs, but if you buy a new one, I am sure it will be the most expensive part of the tiny home.

Then there is the preparing the trailer for the build by adding an undercarriage that prevents damage underneath. Add insulation and a base or sub floor.


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## JustCliff

I don't get the whole trailer design. Most if not all owners of tiny house on trailers do not have the ability to move it by themselves. They do not own a truck heavy enough to handle the tongue weight let alone the overall weight. 
Building it on a trailer frame sturdy enough to handle the weight is a great expense to the over total of the building materials. There are plenty of heavy equipment haulers that could do the job in pretty much every part of the country. 
I think (if I didn't have property already) I would use that money to buy a small piece of property or at least a good down payment.


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## weedygarden

JustCliff said:


> I don't get the whole trailer design. Most if not all owners of tiny house on trailers do not have the ability to move it by themselves. They do not own a truck heavy enough to handle the tongue weight let alone the overall weight.
> Building it on a trailer frame sturdy enough to handle the weight is a great expense to the over total of the building materials. There are plenty of heavy equipment haulers that could do the job in pretty much every part of the country.
> I think (if I didn't have property already) I would use that money to buy a small piece of property or at least a good down payment.


JustCliff, I totally get this. Some people do not get it and it does not work in their life. But it does for many. The young who are not yet settled down, but are moving here and there for school, career, etc. find it as a solution.

If I had one, I would either hire it moved, or rent a U-Haul truck to tow it.


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## weedygarden

*Tinier than tiny homes*

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365342403/

This video is about a church in Eugene, Oregon that has 30 tiny houses for homeless people. Some people are in transition. They pay $30 a month.

It is not perfect, but seems better than government options for creating dependency. Also, I didn't see anything for families. This is mostly for single people and seems as though the community keeps standards and expectations.

Not perfect, but an option.


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## LincTex

weedygarden said:


> This video is about a church in Eugene, Oregon that has 30 tiny houses for homeless people..


http://registerguard.com/rg/news/lo...il-to-vote-on-homeless-village-lease.html.csp

"[City] Councilors said they are impressed with how the village has operated since it opened, particularly that police only have been called there a handful of times.

"This model is working really well," said south-central Councilor George Brown. "I have visited (the village) on many occasions."

Inspired by Portland's Dignity Village, the council-*approved housing area was the idea of church leaders, homeless advocates and others who formed a private, nonprofit group to make it happen.

Residents, who must pay $30 a month to cover utilities, are screened and must sign an agreement to obey village rules.
Advertisement

A 12-member board of directors oversees the village, but a village council, made up of residents, enforces rules and handles day-to-day affairs."


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## weedygarden

*Another tiny house village in Nashville*

http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/...ght&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

For homeless people, it is better than no home or living on the streets. I am working on getting the video here, not sure if I can.



> America TonightMon-Fri 9:30pm ET/6:30pm PT
> 
> Tiny homes provide shelter for Nashville's homeless
> 
> NASHVILLE, Tenn. - It's not every day you see houses towed behind pickup trucks, making their way through the center of town. But a few months ago, homes in Nashville, Tennessee began that journey, delivering security and shelter to those who needed it most.
> 
> It's part of a unique project called the Sanctuary. In 2012 the Green Street Church of Christ, which has long been a service provider to the homeless, started offering safe refuge behind the church's fence to homeless campers. The church's deacon, Caleb Pickering, says that before he knew it 20 tents were in its backyard. Three years later, Nashville pastor Jeff Carr approached Pickering and the Green Street Church with an idea: Convert the tents into microhomes.
> 
> By all accounts, Nashville is a thriving city, drawing tourists and new residents in huge numbers. Forbes named it one of America's 20 fastest-growing cities in 2015. But according to advocates, that popularity is also driving up the homeless population, with fewer options for low-income housing.
> 
> It's estimated there are roughly 600,000 homeless in the United States. The official numbers for Nashville are around 2,300, but local outreach organizations believe the number is three times that, totaling close to 8,000 men, women and children.
> 
> Carr raised the $50,000 needed to construct the six initial homes in just 45 days.
> 
> Now with seven homes in place in the Sanctuary and plans for more on the way, these homes provide more than shelter from the elements to the men and women residing in them.
> 
> The residents told America Tonight the homes provide dignity, security, and a place to plan their future:
> 
> Peter Regan has been on the streets almost his entire life. The 60-year-old says he is bipolar, but receiving treatment and counseling. His humble home is complete with battery-powered heat and creative storage for his belongings.
> 
> "It's great knowing you can lock your stuff up and it's going to be there when you come back," says Regan.
> 
> He volunteers almost daily as a church van driver. He says it's his way of giving back and helping others he believes are more in need than himself.
> 
> He's currently looking for work and hoping to transition into his own apartment.
> 
> Charles Asobo says he fled Nigeria to escape Boko Haram. When the former environmental engineer arrived in the U.S., he found himself alone and out of money. Now he and several others at the Sanctuary work full time for a Nashville moving company. He says he sends his money to Russia to put his little brother through school. Once his brother graduates, Asobo will be able to move out of his microhome and into his own apartment.
> 
> "Your privacy gives you time to think on the next step of things you want to do," Asobo said.
> 
> Moses Okoth moved from Kenya to Nashville to complete degree in pharmacology. But shortly after graduating, his roommates left. Suddenly, he couldn't afford the rent and found himself living in his car. He is applying for jobs and hopes to move out of The Sanctuary in the next few months.
> 
> "It's like heaven for some of us," Okoth said. "Here, you've got privacy, there's people that bring food."
> 
> Unfortunately, not everyone in Nashville has a roof over his head.
> 
> Danny Alexander lives in tent camps in the woods. Like many others sleeping rough in Nashville, Alexander puts his tent on top of anything he can find to elevate and insulate it from the ground.
> 
> Earlier this month, members of the outreach group Open Table Nashville were bandaging wounds he suffered a few days earlier, and giving him much-needed supplies.
> 
> Taking inspiration from the Sanctuary, Open Table Nashville is on the cusp of opening its own microhome community to offer more suitable temporary shelter to people, like Alexander.
> 
> As for the Sanctuary, Pickering says they're hoping to raise enough money to build microhomes for every resident currently in a tent, and provide additional support services. But he's aware that the Sanctuary isn't going to solve the issue of homelessness in Nashville.
> 
> He says, "We're helping 20 people out, which is great, which is what we are capable of doing ... but the community has really got to step up to really get into something as big as solving homelessness."


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## crabapple

tsrwivey said:


> I don't get why they just don't buy a travel trailer :dunno: most of them are self contained, small, include space saving furniture/fixtures & often have all of the tiny appliances, fixtures, & heating & AC units included in the price. All that tiny stuff is EXPENSIVE!!!


From my research trailer are not green, tiny homes are green or that is what they are superpose to be. Tiny house are PC houses.
And they are only cheap if you do the work yourself.
Buying one can be $20,000.00 & up.


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## Yeti-695

I could see one or maybe two people, but more than that no way. I dont think I could live in one. I'm a bigger guy and it would just be to small for me, my wife, three dogs, and then all our preps (I dont have alot of preps that take up that much space). I'm sure some people could make it work. Just not me. My wife lived in a travel trailer in college and loved it. I just think it would be hard.


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## weedygarden

Yeti-695 said:


> I could see one or maybe two people, but more than that no way. I dont think I could live in one. I'm a bigger guy and it would just be to small for me, my wife, three dogs, and then all our preps (I dont have alot of preps that take up that much space). I'm sure some people could make it work. Just not me. My wife lived in a travel trailer in college and loved it. I just think it would be hard.


I get that it is not for everyone. I agree that it is better for one, or maybe two people. But add in your 2 dogs and that changes it big time.

The things that I like about tiny houses:

Easier to heat and cool
Not too hard to move around (my thought is to use a UHAUL truck or even pay to have it done)
Could be built from found and reused building materials.
Often they are being built by young people who do not want mortgages and know they are going to need a place to live until they get settled. College students, people in transition, people who are on the move a lot.

There were some young adults who were into skiing and spent most of a winter driving around the U.S. and Canada, towing a tiny house and skiing. There were maybe 5 or 6 people. The tiny house was mostly for sleeping and getting out of the elements. It was simple and had a wood burning stove for heating. 




There are teenagers who are building them for themselves, knowing they want to live in them in college. There are college kid who have built them to live in for living while in college.






There are older single people who want to live simpler and yet not invade others too much. Some are retired, some are not well, some are divorced or widowed.

There are people who want bigger, more, better for whom this would not work.

There are people who have land and want to live on it, some for a season, some for longer. It is a great way to move there and be protected until something bigger and better can be built.

Valued at $20,000? When you are ready to let it go, you have a down payment for a home.

Not enough room for preps? I have thought of that. I think I would want a tiny house for living and something else for storage, such as another trailer, a shipping container, a shed.

I know not everyone could do it. I would prefer it in a SHTF situation to living out in a tent or hand built shelter. And it really could and would hold more people than we want to live with. It would have more than 100 years ago. It would be better than when my ancestors lived in a home in Europe and had a corner of the living room, or a corner of a bedroom.

I know I shared this somewhere before, but this is a bit from "The History of Czechs (Bohemians) in Nebraska" by Rose Rosicky, Saline County - 1865
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/ne/topic/ethnic/czechs/cz-pg70.html


> Going a mile further, we came to the shelter prepared on our claim, a veritable hole in the ground, covered, but without door or windows. It measured *10x14 and in it eighteen people lived all winter, crammed like sardines*.


 Imagine that! 18 people in 140 square feet for a winter, not 1 or 2 people in 160 square feet.


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## Sybil6

I personally am totally crazy about the idea of a tiny home. However I don't want it to be mobile. I would rather a small house in the conventional sense with a shed out back and medium sized yard for a garden and chickens. I've been house hunting lately and the tiny homes TV show has enchanted me with the idea of leaving a big house behind. All I need is a bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and a small living space. I've seen a few that I loved and I think the biggest was 1,200 square feet. But as a young adult, I think it would be easier for me to settle in a house that small that also allowed me to build onto it or to move into a bigger house as I began to have a family and career started. But I'm not too sure about these little dressy homes because they feel cramped to me. Under 200 square feet feels extreme. Just get a camper. lol.


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## ContinualHarvest

They are a great concept and have many practical applications. While some methods of construction may be better than others, their usefulness cannot be denied. Unfortunately, they are not legal for occupation in the county I live in.


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## tsrwivey

My favorites are the hobbitt houses. I want one!


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## Grimm

tsrwivey said:


> My favorites are the hobbitt houses. I want one!


Pictures, please.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I don't like them much. Not nearly enough storage for preps. And have you seen how expensive they are? It's not like anyone's getting a deal for less square footage. I like that it costs less to upkeep and utilities are lower but for the price I've seen them go for it could get a good truck, travel trailer, and 2 acres in the country. I'll stick with a normal smaller home with storage for my preps and a bedroom I don't have to crawl in and out of.


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## readytogo

I have to many books: D but the idea is not a bad one as long as is not on wheels and I have enough property to build a storm/storage unit.
https://www.google.com/search?q=sma...Hmq8fKAhXEuoMKHfdPD0kQsAQIPw&biw=1366&bih=651


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## readytogo

Another idea on tiny homes is the A-frame construction, especially good in snow country.
https://www.yahoo.com/realestate/fr...ip-wisconsin-2-of-5-photos-1453784913342.html


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## weedygarden

readytogo said:


> Another idea on tiny homes is the A-frame construction, especially good in snow country.
> https://www.yahoo.com/realestate/fr...ip-wisconsin-2-of-5-photos-1453784913342.html


I think A-frames have many possibilities for an inexpensive home, but they are odd houses. So many of the photos in that link show homes that were probably vacation properties. So many of them are so damned ugly and outdated!

I think the A frames that are built with an equilateral triangle frame are more comfortable than the homes build with an obtuse isosceles frame. The edges, with the low head space can be dead space, unless someone builds cabinets or somehow makes it more useable. Personally, I could see a lot of head banging potential throughout as well as potential claustrophobia.

Many of those homes also have wood paneling. I used to be all about natural wood and I do like wood, but if that were in my home, I would have to paint it and lighten it up. In a SHTF situation, with limited lighting resources, the lighter and brighter our walls are, the better our ability to see.


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## tsrwivey

Here's one built into the side of a hill. The freestanding ones are often kinda mushroom shaped, I like those too but we have a big hill on our property so I'm kinda drawn to the ones built into a hillside.


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## Grimm

weedygarden said:


> I think A-frames have many possibilities for an inexpensive home, but they are odd houses. So many of the photos in that link show homes that were probably vacation properties. So many of them are so damned ugly and outdated!
> 
> I think the A frames that are built with an equilateral triangle frame are more comfortable than the homes build with an obtuse isosceles frame. The edges, with the low head space can be dead space, unless someone builds cabinets or somehow makes it more useable. Personally, I could see a lot of head banging potential throughout as well as potential claustrophobia.
> 
> Many of those homes also have wood paneling. I used to be all about natural wood and I do like wood, but if that were in my home, I would have to paint it and lighten it up. In a SHTF situation, with limited lighting resources, the lighter and brighter our walls are, the better our ability to see.


We lived in an A frame cabin for a year. Not very heating efficient. All the heat rises to the highest peak leaving the rest of the living space cold as a witch's teet.


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## weedygarden

Grimm said:


> We lived in an A frame cabin for a year. Not very heating efficient. All the heat rises to the highest peak leaving the rest of the living space cold as a witch's teet.


I can imagine that. By the time you get the lower area warm, it is probably too hot. I wonder if a ceiling fan or two hanging down lower would help?

I have thought about how relatively easy they are to build, and knew someone who had one by the river in N.D.

I know you moved due to some issue, maybe with septic? Other than those two issues, did you find the layout difficult to work with?


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## Grimm

weedygarden said:


> I can imagine that. By the time you get the lower area warm, it is probably too hot. I wonder if a ceiling fan or two hanging down lower would help?
> 
> I have thought about how relatively easy they are to build, and knew someone who had one by the river in N.D.
> 
> I know you moved due to some issue, maybe with septic? Other than those two issues, did you find the layout difficult to work with?


There was a large ceiling fan in the main living area but it didn't do much to help move the heated air back down.

The high peak of the roof did help in the summer. The heat rose and the lower level of the cabin were cooler.

Part of the heating issue with the A frame design is most have a wall of windows to give it a more open or chalet feel. If they are not properly installed and weather treated this will let in a lot of cold air in the winter. We had a large wall of windows on the north side of the cabin and in the winter the air in the cabin was 15 degrees colder the closer you got to the windows. They also leaked when we had hard rains.

Because of the slant roof line having a good amount of natural light is dependent on how many windows you fit on the end walls. Sky lights are okay but they can be covered by snow in the winter and do more harm than good in terms of heating.

I did enjoy living in the cabin and the reason for moving was a maintenance and landlord issue. The cats loved that cabin as well. The open rafters gave them walk ways and tons of space to be a cat.


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## weedygarden

Grimm said:


> There was a large ceiling fan in the main living area but it didn't do much to help move the heated air back down.
> 
> The high peak of the roof did help in the summer. The heat rose and the lower level of the cabin were cooler.
> 
> Part of the heating issue with the A frame design is most have a wall of windows to give it a more open or chalet feel. If they are not properly installed and weather treated this will let in a lot of cold air in the winter. We had a large wall of windows on the north side of the cabin and in the winter the air in the cabin was 15 degrees colder the closer you got to the windows. They also leaked when we had hard rains.
> 
> Because of the slant roof line having a good amount of natural light is dependent on how many windows you fit on the end walls. Sky lights are okay but they can be covered by snow in the winter and do more harm than good in terms of heating.
> 
> I did enjoy living in the cabin and the reason for moving was a maintenance and landlord issue. The cats loved that cabin as well. The open rafters gave them walk ways and tons of space to be a cat.


I can see the potential of a home like that, but it is good to know about the drawbacks.

I know someone who has built many houses. His strategy for the north side of homes is very limited and very small windows. He also builds closets and storage cabinets along the north side of the house. It creates a barrier for keeping wind and cooler air from the main living area, especially in areas where it gets really cold.


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## Tirediron

tsrwivey said:


> Here's one built into the side of a hill. The freestanding ones are often kinda mushroom shaped, I like those too but we have a big hill on our property so I'm kinda drawn to the ones built into a hillside.


I too really like the Hobbit type house, you only need to show as much as you want, the "underhill' party can be as big as you like.


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## cowboyhermit

I was in a new "Tiny house" recently, and I know someone who is seriously considering one. For everyone who always says "Just get an RV", you really have to see a good one to realize the difference. I have spent a lot of time in RV's over the years and most of them feel like ... an RV. Even the most expensive models that go for WAY more than these tiny homes, the one's will all the slide-outs, etc, haven't had the same sense of space and comfort some of these tiny homes have. Now, I don't mind RVs or cramped spaces all that much, but for those that do these can make a lot of sense.


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## bugoutbob

CrackbottomLouis said:


> I don't like them much. Not nearly enough storage for preps. And have you seen how expensive they are? It's not like anyone's getting a deal for less square footage. I like that it costs less to upkeep and utilities are lower but for the price I've seen them go for it could get a good truck, travel trailer, and 2 acres in the country. I'll stick with a normal smaller home with storage for my preps and a bedroom I don't have to crawl in and out of.


What he said


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## BillS

I could see having one for an office. That's about it.


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## Doitnstyle1

*******************************************


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## Grimm

weedygarden said:


> I can see the potential of a home like that, but it is good to know about the drawbacks.
> 
> I know someone who has built many houses. His strategy for the north side of homes is very limited and very small windows. He also builds closets and storage cabinets along the north side of the house. It creates a barrier for keeping wind and cooler air from the main living area, especially in areas where it gets really cold.


I need to point out that the house I pictured is the one we lived in. The lower level under the deck is the basement. It does not go the full length of the house so it appears bigger than it is.

The house faces north because it is on the south side of the road with the cliffs/mountains behind it on the south. I do mean behind it. You can walk about 25 feet behind the house to an empty creek bed then the cliffs start jutting up from there. It gets less than 5 hours of sun before the sun moves behind the mountains on the west side. It is really in a poor location considering it was built for year round living and not just vacation trips.

The whole hamlet this house is located in is on the south side of the valley up against the mountains so no one gets any sun. The bad thing about how close everything is to the base of the cliffs is the boulders come crashing down and into the clusters of houses. There were times you could hear them crash down at night then in the morning you would find a car sitting under one or the side of a house had been crashed into.


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## readytogo

Living in a establish metropolitan aka big city with lots of crime and rude people I haven't seen any small homes anywhere ,city codes will not allowed unless the property has been build already or Grandfathered-in ;http://tinyhousetalk.com/grandfathered-in-tiny-dome-home-in-miami-florida/, land down here is very expensive and no one in a establish neighborhood will allow a small home or trailer next to their average $289/$300,000 home,
like next to me someone pay $287,000 just to knock it down for the lot and build another one out of pure sheetrock and yellow pine wood ,nothing but junk .There are many kits on the market for small homes; Dome Homes or Prefab ones;http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Fiberglass+Dome+Homes&FORM=RESTAB ,or , http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Build+Your+Own+Home+Kits&FORM=RESTAB that are find for the new home owner if city codes allow and you have your land.


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## TheLazyL

Grimm said:


> There was a large ceiling fan in the main living area but it didn't do much to help move the heated air back down.
> 
> The high peak of the roof did help in the summer. The heat rose and the lower level of the cabin were cooler....


Employer remodeled their 2-story office building. The main stairway is a open type with a elevated roof (this highest point of the building). I suggested to the building contractor that a cold air return would be needed above the stairway, he gave me a blank look. The Employee in charge of the project bushed me off too.

Separate heat/AC units for each floor. Main floor is cold so they turn up the heat. Heat raises to the second floor gets hot, yep they turn on the A/C. Cold air goes down and cools the main floor. Yep, main floor turns the heat up...:nuts:

A-frame designs need a air duct at the top of the ceiling going to the coldest room on the main floor with a reversible blower motor. Winter time suck the warm air off the peak and blow the air into the cold room. Summer time reverse the motor to cool the upstairs.


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## weedygarden

readytogo said:


> Living in a establish metropolitan aka big city with lots of crime and rude people I haven't seen any small homes anywhere ,city codes will not allowed unless the property has been build already or Grandfathered-in ;http://tinyhousetalk.com/grandfathered-in-tiny-dome-home-in-miami-florida/, land down here is very expensive and no one in a establish neighborhood will allow a small home or trailer next to their average $289/$300,000 home,
> like next to me someone pay $287,000 just to knock it down for the lot and build another one out of pure sheetrock and yellow pine wood ,nothing but junk .There are many kits on the market for small homes; Dome Homes or Prefab ones;http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Fiberglass+Dome+Homes&FORM=RESTAB ,or , http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Build+Your+Own+Home+Kits&FORM=RESTAB that are find for the new home owner if city codes allow and you have your land.


Generally, mobile homes are relegated to particular areas with other mobile homes. They are called trailer parks. They are also called manufactured homes. I have a friend who lives in one in Florida, and have been to one in Arizona. In those places, they are often retirement communities.

I saw them in North Dakota where there are man camps, or camps where oil field workers live while they are on. They often work on for two or three weeks, and then are off for a week or so. Many of these men go home when they are off, but it depends on where home is in relationship to the oilfield and their life. I have had a few cousins who have worked in the oil fields and lived in man camps, and home for their time off. A tiny house would be perfect for such situations because rents in those communities is outrageous.

The other option is for tiny homes to find a home in the country, or where it is okay to have them on city lots. Some city lots are very small, while others can be quite large.
There happen to be some communities where you can live IF you have your own tiny house.


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## DrPrepper

weedygarden said:


> Generally, mobile homes are relegated to particular areas with other mobile homes. They are called trailer parks. They are also called manufactured homes. I have a friend who lives in one in Florida, and have been to one in Arizona. In those places, they are often retirement communities.


I live in a manufactured home in a very small manufactured home community in AZ. While our homes are not "tiny homes" per se, the largest home is around 1800 square feet and the smallest is about 1100. Although our home is less than 1600 square feet, it is plenty big for us. Manufactured homes are really common in this part of Arizona. It's not unusual in some areas to see big fancy houses with single-wides right next door. Our little community is restricted to double and triples, and it is hard to tell the difference between them and site built homes. In fact, while most homes are built with 2x4 framing, ours has 2x6 framing on exterior walls with additional insulation to keep us warm in the winter and cool in the summer. Plus, the stronger framing helps us in the winter when we have really heavy snow loads on the roof!


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## gabbyj310

I live in a tiny home. call it my "tin mansion". Yep it's a trailer and a very old one at that, The bank wouidn't even consider it on the loan.Now that i've had it re-wired 3 times(thank you Ky county inspector that doesn't know poop,in fact I paid him to do the first re-wire...)I could have bought one of those fancy new tiny homes. But I have enough space for all my "stuff"from my travels(my treasures)and my gradchildren to come visit(my most important treasures)!My concern is of course storms as we are in Ky's tornado Alley.I have wanted a underground house for a few years maybe I will win that darn Lotto!! In real fact it's just a" trailer" and it JUST tiny for me after moving out of a 3 bedroom 2 bath townhouse.But will do until I do something else??????


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## LastOutlaw

*cabin*

I have a small place about an hour from my home. It is way off grid. It is set up so I can walk in there and have everything I need to live for a number of months.
It is very small but has long term food stored ,clothes, equipment and tools needed to stay there indefinitely. A battery bank is setup and can be recharged with a small Honda EU2000 generator if it is heavily used. When not heavily used it will stay charged off of a small solar panel. All lighting is LED. I have a small chest freezer that has been converted to be used as a fridge and uses minimal electricity to run. A wood stove provides heat in the winter and can be used for cooking if need be. I do have a small window mount AC unit that I use in the summer to cool the room so I can get to sleep when it is hot. It runs off of the battery bank. There is no well but water collection is setup utilizing 3 IBC water totes. (A neighbor has a well that I can use if I have to.) I usually haul in drinking water in 55 gallon food grade drums but have purifiers on hand if need be.


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## weedygarden

LastOutlaw, It looks like a great place to bug out to.

How is security there? Are you far enough from the main road that people driving by would not see you? I have heard stories of break-ins in BOLs, and wonder how people can protect themselves?


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## LastOutlaw

It is in an area covering 18 square miles of forest. If I pull off the pavement it takes me 45 minutes to get there (distance from the paved road is 9 miles) with 2 water crossings on the way in. Most people don't drive that far on a rough road. It is sort of like an HOA setup where there are numerous land owners who pay a yearly fee to have a full time security guard. ( I pay him a bit extra on the side to do regular checks on my place.) They have caught a couple of thieves in the past but word is if someone steals there could be a fire at their place. I and many others setup game cameras around the area and I cable my entrance with signs stating there are video cameras in use. I try to go there every couple of weeks just to insure my place is ok and do mice control...lol. I keep in touch with my neighbors and we check each others property when any of us are there. We have worked on the interior but leave the exterior looking rough so the place doesn't look like it is full of assets.


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