# How much is enough?



## hunterseeker (Aug 4, 2012)

I've seen so many comments about having your own acreage for hunting / gathering. I've also seen and heard recommendations on how much to store back for SHTF. With the zombie apocalypse nowhere in the foreseeable future, but having insane / stupid world leaders that might accidentally push that red button, how much is enough? 

I'm in a position where I have 2 bug out locations to hunt / gather. Both are about the same distance away, but in different directions. But how long will my little pieces of land withstand the nourishment requirements?

How much is enough (land, water, food stores, etc.)?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

1 acre is a huge garden that should feed several people. Living off the land without a garden and using only what nature provides varies a huge amount with the local environment, I would say 1000 acres to 100,000 acres might be required.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

I think it depends, 1000 to 10000 acres would be extremely hard to secure as well as farm. It would definitely depend upon the amount of fuel available, 1-10 people would have a hard time farming on 1000 acres let alone 10000 if there was very limited fuel.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I grow enough fruits and veggies for 5 people on a 1/4 acre garden with raised beds. I have chickens for eggs and meat. My entire set up is very low maintenance. I use "no-till" and mulch heavily. One person can easily tend the entire thing. 

The problem with having vast acreage is that you have to maintain it. It has to be mowed, fenced, protected. You need a lot of people to farm large acreage. The more livestock you add, the more your fuel and feed requirements go up.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

hunterseeker said:


> With the zombie apocalypse nowhere in the foreseeable future, but having insane / stupid world leaders that might accidentally push that red button, how much is enough?


I disagree. I think the economic collapse is coming in the fall. The government is stockpiling ammo to fight another civil war. Homeland Security alone has bought over a billion rounds of hollow point ammo. And no, you don't use hollow points for target practice.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

hunterseeker said:


> I'm in a position where I have 2 bug out locations to hunt / gather. Both are about the same distance away, but in different directions. But how long will my little pieces of land withstand the nourishment requirements?
> 
> How much is enough (land, water, food stores, etc.)?


I'd want a couple year's worth of food and water. You need to farm a few acres and try to grow at least twice as much food as you'll need. You need a root cellar to store your potatoes and other vegetables. You can use your hunting land to hunt birds and other small game for fresh meat. I don't think you could gather much edible food. Maybe some roots and berries but that's not a lot of food.

I'd want a couple year's worth of stored kerosene. I'd have kerosene cooking stoves and kerosene heaters. I don't like burning wood because the smoke would give you away.

There's an economic collapse coming but it's not going to be permanent. Eventually the government will regain control of the country.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

BillS said:


> I don't think you could gather much edible food. Maybe some roots and berries but that's not a lot of food.


By now this should not surprise me but it does. :gaah:

Gathering edible plants requires skills. Not only must one know how to identify a plant, but also when & how to find it ... Then what to do with with it once you find it!

There is over 1000 species of wild edible plants just in the eastern U.S. Mother Nature has one heck of a garden.

:soapbox2:

I'm done now ...


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

*Andi said:


> By now this should not surprise me but it does. :gaah:
> 
> Gathering edible plants requires skills. Not only must one know how to identify a plant, but also when & how to find it ... Then what to do with with it once you find it!
> 
> ...


Idea! Exactly what we need to be studying in science! I mean, we as the kids science .... I'm off to figure this venture out! Why didn't I think of that before, thanks!!!


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

hunterseeker said:


> I've seen so many comments about having your own acreage for hunting / gathering. I've also seen and heard recommendations on how much to store back for SHTF. With the zombie apocalypse nowhere in the foreseeable future, but having insane / stupid world leaders that might accidentally push that red button, how much is enough?
> 
> I'm in a position where I have 2 bug out locations to hunt / gather. Both are about the same distance away, but in different directions. But how long will my little pieces of land withstand the nourishment requirements?
> 
> How much is enough (land, water, food stores, etc.)?


Your best bet for a location would have several things easily available - water, land and protection.

Water is best if it is flowing, so, a stream or spring would be a perfect start.

Second is the amount of land. Personally, I feel that the amount of land that you would want / need is what you can easily walk the perimeter in a half-day or less - checking the fence, trap-line, tree-stands. For most people, between 10 and 25 acres of land would be best. Too much or too little will hamper your abilities.

Protection is how the area is setup (natural protection, not firearms). Is it an open field where you can see for miles or is it a tree'd area with mountains and cliffs all around? Are there natural ways to be ambushed? What kinds of predator-animals are on the land / area? Bear, coyote, wolf, lynx, fox ... or just alot of deer and beaver?


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## JustUs (Nov 7, 2011)

How much land do you need....how much can you defend? If things get bad people will not adhere to boundary lines. If you have food on "your land", be it wild game or your garden, they will be trying to get it.


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

This has always been a subject of contention in the preperation world. Well here is what I have concluded.
To take care of you family/group/whatever you will want to plan for decent acreage for farming/gardening. I know for me and mine we can have a solid garden that will not only provide for the summer months but allow for winter storage and then a bit after with a full acre to 1.5. On top of that you will want to guard the garden from natural preditors and man. Then your homestead will need a solid perimeter and then outer perimeter. In times where people honor property boundries you will also want enough land to hunt on without much worry. Also you want to have natural water flow, maybe a spring, along with plenty of game. All in all I figure a 100 acres will do nicely and I am also making sure it is bounded by federal land and is remote enough....

My two cents have a prepared day...


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Like any good lawyer would say (NO, I'm NOT a lawyer!), it depends. 

It depends on where you are, the soil, climate, lay of the land, water supplies, and many other things. Ten acres of Illinois Grain Belt land is a lot different than 10 acres of desert. 

Assuming you have adequate rainfall (you'll find out this year!), a source of water for yourself and for livestock, a few acres of decent agricultural land with some forest adjoining will provide a lot of your needs. The hunter-gatherer idea is a thing of the past, unless we lose a LOT of population. 

But yes, I have some traps and other means of harvesting wild food, and know how that is done in my area. It is a useful supplement, but don't count on it for a living, IMHO. 

Here in south Indiana, 5 to 10 acres of decent farmland will provide all your family can eat (meat, dairy, vegetables, fruit, eggs, etc.) and have some to trade or sell. Been there and done that. If you cook and heat with wood, you'll need another 5 to 40 acres of established forest, depending on its' productivity, to provide material for building, furniture, tools, fencing, cooking and heating, and a hundred other uses, if you plan to live as well as farmers typically did around 1850. In some places here, 20 acres total might do it, but in others it would take 80 or more. 

Talk to some very old people and study history in your area to learn what is needed.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

*Andi said:


> Gathering edible plants requires skills. Not only must one know how to identify a plant, but also *when & how* to find it ... Then what to do with with it once you find it!


That's just it - you can't do it 365 days a year. You need a plan for when those items are "not in season".


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Studies show it takes 100 acres of land to feed 1 hunter gatherer for one year.

Prep damn it!


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## Shammua (Jan 27, 2012)

Magus said:


> Studies show it takes 100 acres of land to feed 1 hunter gatherer for one year.
> 
> Prep damn it!


Good lord imagine the land needed for "19 and growing"
For those that don't know that is a show about a family with 19 kids...


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

LincTex said:


> That's just it - you can't do it 365 days a year. You need a plan for when those items are "not in season".


Not when it is a lifestyle ... I know (sign) some folks have a hard time understanding this.

But there you have it. I also know, most folks will not look into it. (but that is alright also)

We each have our own different ways of looking at "How to be ready" ...
I happen to like Mother Nature and what she has to offer, others not so much so.

To each there own.


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## hunterseeker (Aug 4, 2012)

I never said not to prepare. Being prepared has been ingrained in me since Boy Scouts. There is something to be said though for harvesting fresh meat and wild edibles to supplement your stores. In my situation, I said that I have 2 options to bug out. 1 way will put me in the line of nuclear cloud if a local reactor goes but will have 1,000s of acres if wilderness available (public lands). This is the less likely option for me but it is there. 
The better option is old family land we own in the opposite direction away from the reactor. It is 80 acres of farmable land but us currently covered with pine forest, which in the area means less chance of good gathering options (hunting is still good) except for pine related foodstuffs. I have a better option for long term food storage though but a much greater chance of hurricanes.

I guess the bug out choice and requirements will depend on the reason why...


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Magus said:


> Studies show it takes 100 acres of land to feed 1 hunter gatherer for one year.
> 
> Prep damn it!


Interesting ...

We have half that and we garden, gather, hunt & fish. That was for as many as 6 (when the girls were home) and now for 3.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how much land you have if you aren't already farming it by the time the SHTF it will be too late. It takes practice and experience to grow enough food and raise enough animals to support a family. This forum is full of people who seem to think they are going to go out and do it after the SHTF. They will starve. (I am a life-long farmer and I know what I'm talking about.)


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

I've been gardening on my little 1.5 acres for about 18 years. 1/2 acre before that for 12 years. I have thrown away, given away, sold and consumed myself (and family) thousands of pounds of produce, eggs, chickens, turkeys, pork. I could have fully eaten out of it 100%, but being I don't have to, I choose not to, though it's still close to 60-70%...:scratch

I'm blessed with a VERY LONG growing season. I have actually grown 3 crops of corn in a year. My tomatoes produce from May through the end of November. Along with okra, squashes of different types, I have 3 year old collard plants. I also found what I could grow easily as I can and what I CAN grow well. Of course I grow beans (3 types), peas, watermelon, peppers (5 types), turnips, brussel sprouts.....

You have to have a plan and you have to work hard at it. I use copious amounts of mulch, compost and manure. 

Drip irrigation is the way for beating drought. Pure and simple.

I water 6 peach trees, 4 fig trees, 3 pear trees, 2 plum trees, 6 blueberry bushes, 4 LARGE scuppernong vines with 200 gallons of water a season plus whatever mother nature gives me. My 150’ x 200’ garden uses 400 gallons of water a season, along with rain. You keep the weeds under control and put the water on the plant and it will grow very well and be about as low maintenance as you can get. BTW I catch ALL the water for the garden and fruit trees from the shop roof….

There are ways to do it if you want it bad enough….:flower:

Jimmy


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## biobacon (Aug 20, 2012)

BillS said:


> I disagree. I think the economic collapse is coming in the fall. The government is stockpiling ammo to fight another civil war. Homeland Security alone has bought over a billion rounds of hollow point ammo. And no, you don't use hollow points for target practice.


according to an article I found on marketwatch.com it was 450 million rounds over 5 years. I admit I dont know the real number of agents they have but assuming 50,000 because this includes some border units it works out that each agent would get 9000 rounds, Thats a lot untill you divide that by the 5 years then its 1800 rounds a year or 150 rounds a month. I dont know about you but I personaly have bought 4 times that( one box of .22 is 525 rounds) and fired that much this month between .22 9mm and .45. Im just saying its relly not that much and maybe we shouldnt be that concered about it.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

*Andi said:


> Interesting ... We have half that and we garden, gather, hunt & fish. That was for as many as 6 (when the girls were home) and now for 3.


You are truly blessed to have those resources, and on such a small amount of land. We don't have near as many edible native plants in this area (very little variety), so we would have to garden/farm some no matter what.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

kejmack said:


> I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter how much land you have if you aren't already farming it by the time the SHTF it will be too late. It takes practice and experience to grow enough food and raise enough animals to support a family. This forum is full of people who seem to think they are going to go out and do it after the SHTF. They will starve.


VERY TRUE. The same goes for people who think they are going to "turn sod" in their backyard or at the local ball park/playground and put in a garden/crops. It takes a long time to build good, useable soil.


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## radio477 (Feb 9, 2012)

LincTex said:


> VERY TRUE. The same goes for people who think they are going to "turn sod" in their backyard or at the local ball park/playground and put in a garden/crops. It takes a long time to build good, useable soil.


That depends on were you are located, here in the not so great state of Illinois we have very good soil and even novices can accidentally grow a nice garden.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

We own land in Ohio and in Montana. There's a world of difference between them and what we can do with them. 

How much land you need depends on where you are and what you plan to do.


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## Freyadog (Jan 27, 2010)

LincTex said:


> VERY TRUE. The same goes for people who think they are going to "turn sod" in their backyard or at the local ball park/playground and put in a garden/crops. It takes a long time to build good, useable soil.


Yep..We have clay here in sw Va. and it is just starting to turn to decent soil after 7 years of gardening and pooh, hay, etc.


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