# Sticky  How To Be Safe In Crowds



## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

AJ and I will be at a venue with 5-6000 people on Saturday night. In light of what's been going on recently, I found this to be an informative article and thought I'd share.

http://onpointtactical1.tumblr.com/...9.+2013&utm_campaign=4/20/13&utm_medium=email

*How To Be Safe in Crowds 
by Kevin Reeve*

I have been asked several times since the Boston Marathon Bombing about how to manage risk in a large crowd environment. One answer is simple: Unless you are absolutely required to be in attendance, AVOID large crowded environments. Of course when there are times when you have limited choice and must venture into that environment, then use good habits of "situational awareness" and adopt a "bias towards action."

Large groups of people will always attract a certain amount of risk. Never underestimate the volatility of people in large groups. Any significant event, even a "perceived" event, can result in a stampede. People are injured and die every year during Black Friday Sales events when they become victims of a frenzied mob. A fire, an explosion, an active shooter can all create a mob mentality that takes on a life of its own.

The KEY to surviving any event in a crowded venue will depend almost entirely on your ability to control personal panic, to assess the situation, and to take immediate action. If you panic, you drastically increase your odds of injury or death.

Here are a few strategies that will decrease your risk. Concentration is initially involved, but after practice, these habits can become natural and seemingly effortless.

*1.* Maintain your awareness. Keep your eyes up, off the smart phone, and scan your environment. This is can be challenging due to the large volume of people. But try actively scanning. Look for "out of baseline" behaviors. People moving upstream, against the flow, for example, are out of baseline. People moving faster or slower than the baseline, or whose gestures or furtiveness do not match the event.

I have a friend that works in a department store in theft prevention. In a glance, he can spot someone about to shoplift. Their behaviors are out of baseline. A shoplifter will always stand right next to the shelf before he pockets the item, whereas a normal shopper stands back to be able to see the contents of the shelves. Out of baseline.

*2.* Identify specific threats or threatening behavior. Look for menacing behavior or people who by their looks cause you to feel uncomfortable. Trust your gut. There may be a valid reason why they make you feel uncomfortable. If you are in proximity, move away. As always, look for "orphans:" bags or packages without owners. Alert security if you see them, but do not stand next to them waiting for security to arrive.

*3.* Identify exits. Whenever I enter a room, or area, one of the first things I do is scan for exits. Are there emergency exits? Are they alarmed? Are they locked? What about windows? Can they be opened? Is there a heavy object like a chair I can throw through the window?

*4.* Look for exits on the opposite side of the room from the entrance or at right angles to the entrance. Most people will bypass emergency exits in close proximity to them to go back to the entrance they came in through. This behavior has led to many deaths in ballroom and concert fires. People who are panicking seek the familiar.

*5.* Identify cover. Cover refers to safety from fire. A brick wall may stop bullets, but sheetrock walls will not. Solid furniture may seem solid, but even a two inch thick oak table will not stop a 9mm round. You must find something substantial if shooting starts. The engine block and front axle of a car for example may provide enough cover for one person. The car door, not so much. Inside a building, there is generally not much cover. Better to head for the exit.

*5.* When an event occurs, grab your family members and head for the exit. Pick up and carry children. Have your family members, (spouse, others with you) grab a hold of your belt. Move assertively towards the PRE-SELECTED exit. Move with the crowd "downstream" but also in a diagonal direction, until can reach a wall inside, or if outside, the edge of the crowd, where you can better control your movement. Do not be afraid to damage or destroy the fixtures or the building itself to get out, such as breaking open windows or kicking open doors, or breaking locks Timidity will not be helpful. Your primary concern must be your family. Once they are safe, you can decide whether or not to render aid to others.

*6.* Carry essential gear. Essential gear for an outside event: Water bottle. First aid kit that includes a tourniquet. Knife. Multi-tool. Sun glasses that also provide eye protection. Indoor essential gear, add a small pocket flashlight which will penetrate smoke and haze, ( a cell phone light will not penetrate smoke and haze.)

It is impossible to anticipate every event. However, most events will precipitate the need to MOVE. MOVEMENT to SAFETY will generally always be your highest priority. If the event is localized to your immediate vicinity, then safety generally lies elsewhere. The most important trait here is a BIAS TOWARDS ACTION. Take action to improve your crowd situation.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

Great post! Such a great post that I just had to make it a sticky!


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

Thanks. Good info there.

I might add:

*7. *To watch for the overall mood of the crowd too. If they are moving towards drunk or hostile or perhaps half believes one way, half believes the other and they may advance to openly fighting with each other (city council meeting on a contenious issue, for example)... If the mood is starting to go in a bad direction, make your move before the "event" occurs. It could also be the performance... pyrotechnics on stage... venue catches fire... mass rush for the exits, etc. It isn't always the guy or two with a backpack, it could be the whole crowd.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

I hate large crowds and for that reason I avoid them ... but a few things ring true ...

Identify exits (3 &4) ... So true ...

Keep an ear and eye open and try to have fun while you are at it.

Have fun, be safe and trust your gut.

:wave:


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Bout the best I can come up with right now:


Sorry UJ, yall put up a good post. Lots a good info there.

By the way, that gear sucks ta wear!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Situational awareness (No. 1) is the key to good safety and security in ALL things. It is a perishable skill that goes away if you do not use it at all times. Practice it daily, teach your loved ones how to use it and remember that the one time you drop your guard it likely going to be the one time you need it the most. Ask my kids how often they hear the words "situational awareness" in the average week and they will say "at least once a day".


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## ras1219como (Jan 15, 2013)

I tell people all the time to listen to what their instincts are telling them. If something doesn't feel right it isn't, never ignore that gut feeling. I use it all the time and its saved my butt a few times.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

*Andi said:


> Have fun, be safe and trust your gut.
> 
> :wave:


I'm not sure I'd label it as "fun". Twice a year we work at a large rodeo/bull riding event. Probably about 10% of the attendees are Amish. They just love to get falling down drunk. No matter how many times we take the liquor from their backpacks they always seem to think they'll get away with it this time.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

My home town hosts Hillbilly Days (Pikeville, KY) and its second in the state to the Kentucky Derby when it comes to attendance (this years numbers say 100,000). It's been going on for over 30 years, the same time every year. I've personally never missed one. 

What helps is knowing your layout--if it's outside, know the terrain and side streets. Inside, scope it out from the door. 

There was a marked increase in LEO's this year.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Watch for groups of people approaching the crowd that you're walking with. That's probably what happened when the thugs in Chicago and Philadelphia started attacking shoppers. If you see that, immediately turn around and head the other way. 

It also helps if you can use small clusters of people along the way to take cover behind when you're trying to make your escape. You're moving in opposite directions but you're trying to avoid a direct line of sight with criminals.

When you're driving, be on the lookout for stopped traffic and people attacking cars. If you see that, backup if you can, or turn around if you can. Otherwise, time your passage through the intersection with the light. Go once the light turns green but only go if there's a safe way through the intersection. 

And lastly, if someone from a group of thugs throws something at your car, DON'T GET OUT OF THE CAR. Just get out of there. Run a red light if you have to.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

ras1219como said:


> I tell people all the time to listen to what their instincts are telling them. If something doesn't feel right it isn't, never ignore that gut feeling. I use it all the time and its saved my butt a few times.


Assuming one is the type that are aware of their surroundings.

I can be sitting in the living room of my mother-in-laws for an hour and have a sister-in-law ask where I was. If it doesn't bump into them, hurt them or make a loud noise they never even know it's there.

And the wife would expect me to risk life to rescue them... :surrender:


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## prepperware (Jul 28, 2012)

Great topic!

Time will tell, but many people are thinking we may see an increase in events like at Boston in the near future. The types of violence seem to be changing too... ( I may be wrong on this?) Situational Awareness, should be our natural state. We've become lax and, in a way, have given up our natural survival instinct and just assume that everywhere is safe. Better safe than sorry. (or dead)


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

There has been many accidents in which scared people have started a stampede that has cause injury or death to others, Boston,Sandy Hook and others where all freaks of nature, you can`t go out and expect this incidents at every corner; but your safety is your responsibility , in daylight walking stay close to door ways, night walking, walk in the middle of the street, inside a mall stay close to each other, watch for large groups of kids/juveniles;public place;park,beach,etc is best to be off to the sided never in the middle, pay attention to loud music,alcohol,different groups, but the first rule of safety is to never look for trouble, know your area well, in and out quick from unknown areas, no need to be in areas you don`t have too period and please never attract attention to yourself.


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## Attila (Jan 30, 2011)

*Andi said:


> I hate large crowds and for that reason I avoid them ... but a few things ring true ...
> 
> Identify exits (3 &4) ... So true ...
> 
> ...


I'm with you. I hate crowds myself. I avoid crowded places at all cost. I have not been to the mall in years, and I'd rather be whipped with a wet rope as to have to go to walmart.


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## JSank80 (Apr 30, 2013)

TheLazyL said:


> Assuming one is the type that are aware of their surroundings.
> 
> I can be sitting in the living room of my mother-in-laws for an hour and have a sister-in-law ask where I was. If it doesn't bump into them, hurt them or make a loud noise they never even know it's there.
> 
> And the wife would expect me to risk life to rescue them... :surrender:


Sheep always need protected by the sheep dog, that is why they are sheep. It is the unfortunate truth and duty of the sheep dog. The sheep will never be aware of the wolf, and will never know how to respond in a productive way when the wolf attacks. Situational awareness is the absolute number 1 priority in safety.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

Excellent post with a lot to think about.


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## RedWolfs (Jun 4, 2013)

Hmm.. That’s an interesting thing to read, I hope everyone will follow this. Wish you luck. !


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## GreenMan (Jun 26, 2013)

Believe in 1868?? Hmm.. Sometimes I wish I could do so..


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## alergyfree (Feb 15, 2011)

Good read and good suggestions.
Eyes an ears wide...


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

How to go Unnoticed in Crowds

Kevin Reeve is a man with a lot of skills. Thanks for posting UJ.

He and his group teach advanced SERE (among other things) to special forces groups. He has a few classes open to civilians. These guys are professionals.

Last spring I had the opportunity to take his 3 day class, Urban Escape and Evasion.

Mexico City is the worlds leader in kidnappings for profit. The city that holds the dubious distinction of 2nd place is Phoenix Az. It has now crossed the border and is spreading. The basic premise for the class - if you are traveling on business and get kidnapped, what do you do?

This class is basic SERE training toned down for civilians. I was taught how to escape various restraints including duct tape, metal and flex cuffs. I was taught how to evade recapture, move unnoticed in an urban environment day or night, acquire food, water, transportation. How to be a Greyman!

These are must know skills for a shtf situation or even a night out in the city.

I had 2-12 hour days of class room training. It was followed by a day long field exercise. The third day of class began at 8am:

The basic Senario was that civil unrest has erupted in Atlanta. Factions carve up territory battling each other and legitimate authority. A few random individuals (13) are thrown together by chance after being captured by a faction.

We were hooded, cuffed, roughed up, tased repeatedly while being interrogated. This will get your blood pumping. This was actually part of the training. Under stress and high heart rate our extremities began to lose dexterity. Tunnel vision occurs. We were taught a simple breathing technique to control this.

When left alone for a few minutes we made our escape. Using the skills we had learned we picked the locks on our handcuffs, freed ourselves and each other. By prearrangement we were teamed in pairs, 5 teams of 2. After escape we scattered into the "zone".

There were 4 teams of trackers trying to recapture us, all retired or ex-military who specialized in these type of operations in their careers and continue as private contractors to governments.

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The previous evening we were allowed to cache water or a few other items we thought we might need in the operation area. We used our training when picking locations. How do you hide items in plain sight in a major city?

I found a "pay by the day" parking lot beside an abandoned building. The windows had bars, some panes were broken. I folded a piece of cardboard, stuffed it behind the bars over a broken pane. Inside the cardboard "envelope" I put a bottle of water, energy bars and a knife. It was still there when I retrieved it the next day. It just looked like cardboard over a broken window.

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The teams had 12 tasks to complete by 4pm then rendezvous at the "Hard Rock Cafe". As we completed a task we'd find instructions for the next task, sometimes several tasks. We were required to find a day and a nighttime hideout. We had to improvise weapons and disguises, obtain help from total strangers like the use of a phone and cash. Pick a padlock that had been left on a chain. Find a working payphone and check in, even find a car suitable for theft! We didn't actually steal cars but find one that was easy pickin's and take a photo (certain brands/models/year).

We did all this over a large area of downtown Atlanta. There were tourists, construction, government buildings and police, businesses and 100's of homeless people, all of whom were unaware of what we were doing. Talk about a HOOT!

Dozens of bizarre and funny things happened to the teams, real danger too, more than a few close calls. As I have a CCP I had the option of carrying a pistol during the exercise, it was recommended. Because of the extra weight and access to buildings I choose not to but did have several knives.

4 teams were recaptured (then released to complete the tasks). The fifth team wasn't captured but were identified and photographed by the trackers. The last team, (me and my partner) were never spotted.

Afterwards we had an open debrief session. One of my class mates pointed out one of the most helpful things about the field exercise was it forced them to look at their natural environment in a completely different way. They had grown up and lived in large cities their entire life. Most of the others folks were similar, suburban if not urban.

I think this was easier for me because I didn't have to look at my world differently. The city is foreign to me to begin with. Example, I didn't have to go through a list of places where water was no longer available and then find a new source. I looked for a spot of green that had a garden hose, took 10 minutes, in fact found several that day.

The second key is stress, stunguns are no fun. The threat of being recaptured and interrogated again is extremely motivating. The downtown of a major city has its own very real dangers when traveling on foot out of normal pathways. Many folks are nervous waiting at a bus stop in certain areas. Extend this threat over several miles. It's definitely a wakeup!

Another key is the time element. We were out in the streets over 7 hours. We got tired, thirsty and hungry. There was no normal place to stop and rest while being hunted.

I went into this exercise recovering from a serious injury. I almost backed out of the field exercise, thought it'd be a distraction. It actually added to the experience. I now know what it's like to be hunted for miles while in pain!

Information about these skills is available on the net, video's etc. Another choice is check the local VFW, see if anyone has been through SERE. Some of these older vets might enjoy helping you set up a training event. The might even get a kick out adding fear to your exercise. Paintball guns sting like heck!

Emergency drills are one thing. Adding stress and fear to an exercise takes it to a whole new level. Theory is theory until you add pain! At the end of the day you're going to get out what you put into something like this.

I'd recommend Kevin Reeve's training classes to anyone, it could easily save your life. He sometimes does online courses.

Pic below, my bootlace hand cuff key in case I'm illegally restrained. Speaking of bootlaces. I make mine from 550 cord. 550 can slice through flex cuffs like they were butter. Search "flex cuffs escape" on youtube.

http://www.onpointtactical.com/

http://www.survivalthinktank.com/2011/11/grey-man-directive.html

http://www.serepick.com/index.html The ceramic razors are nice.

http://www.blackscoutsurvival.com/2013/03/boot-lace-handcuff-key.html


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

Good read. I'm always travelling for work and airports have huge crowds.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

BillS said:


> ...When you're driving, be on the lookout for stopped traffic and people attacking cars. If you see that, backup if you can, or turn around if you can. Otherwise, time your passage through the intersection with the light. Go once the light turns green but only go if there's a safe way through the intersection. ...


When traffic is slow or stopped leave enough space between you and the vehicle in front of you that will allow you to change lanes or get to the berm.

In other words if you're hugging the bumper in front of you and the vehicle behind you is doing the same, your vehicle is trapped.


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

Cotton, that seminar sounds hardcore! It was actually offered in my city a few years ago but I decided to pass on it. I'd love the survival training out on the streets but the kidnapping and "interrogation" would have been _*way*_ too much for me. If I could pick and choose which part of the seminar I was willing to do I'd probably take it a few times and work my way up to the full experience.

My martial arts training helps a lot with managing fear, but I'd love to learn the survival skills. Can you recommend any books or videos?


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*Excellent information!*

I too, do my best to stay away from crowds and crowded situations. Festivals, fairs, large sporting events, malls, etc. are places I avoid like the plague.

So many people are so oblivious to the potential evil and danger around them. Smartphones are dangerous to those who keep them in their face. I see people who cross streets without even being aware of traffic because their phones are getting 100% of their attention.

When I am out and about, part of my behavior is people watching, while not looking at the people. This is a skill to practice. If someone has caught your attention, you may or may not want to make them aware that you are aware of them and what they are doing.

Hysterical reactions are something I have observed many times and I find myself very annoyed by them. If we are aware of our fears and work with overcoming them, it may be of great service to us. Predatory animals is one thing: bears, mountain lions, coyotes, wolves, but there are people who completely lose all sense of reality over insects, rodents, reptiles and more. The fear is completely irrational, but real for many people. It is one thing to have an initial startle, it is another thing to not be able to recover and deal with it. Have you ever seen a room empty out when a bee flew in? What about seeing a snake? I have seen people get completely hysterical by moths.

In a situation where you may need to be quiet and unseen, one of these irrational fears may do you in. If a family member has one of these, you may want to work with them about it. Having taught in the inner city for a few decades, I was aware that inner city people are particularly fearful of anything wild. It was important that these children had exposure to many animal types in a safe and calm environment.

I also have friends who are completely unaware. I think being in a dangerous situation with certain people is as much of a threat as anything. How many times do people freeze up when what they need to do is move away or react as fast as they can?

Cotton, great information. It would be good to participate in something like this.


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

> So many people are so oblivious to the potential evil and danger around them. Smartphones are dangerous to those who keep them in their face. I see people who cross streets without even being aware of traffic because their phones are getting 100% of their attention.


I have a smartphone and it's a great tool for me. I did realize at one point that it was becoming a problem and I'm working on maintaining my awareness while I'm using it. Now I jokingly refer to it as "the Precious."

I can proudly say I'm not as bad as ... 



... I think of this situation a lot as I watch other people with their phones.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

When possible always back into a parking stall. You can drive out a whole lot faster then you can back out. Try it at the next school event.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> When possible always back into a parking stall. You can drive out a whole lot faster then you can back out. Try it at the next school event.


I do this whenever possible. I have worked in buildings where a few people do this daily, and some never get it. In addition to being able to drive out faster, if you have car trouble, it is much easier for your car to be looked at under the hood.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Like Uncle Joe stated, if I don`t have to go I don`t go, simple, every year at the fair ground here in Miami there are problems, juveniles acting up, guns everywhere is really a mess, many of the public events in this city end up with one type of violence or another, I have always been uneasy in large crows any way but certain precautions can be taken, we just have to remember that an act of terrorism is very hard to detect or even avoid sometimes. I guess the times are changing for all.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Anyone with the intention of doing harm will do so, is just unavoidable and it really matters very little how much police or security is present, but the reality of our times is that we live in a mind your own business world and is that type of mentality that gets us in trouble sometimes, we are afraid to confront each other in public, to tell someone that their kids are disobedient or to tell someone that they just drop trash, we see unruly people every day and do nothing ,even the police will do nothing as they see people dumping trash out on the streets or in parking lots, so the dropping of a backpack loaded with explosives goes totally unnoticed(http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/cctv-footage-shows-bangkok-bombing-6273019) ,or a group of teenagers running wild at the mall knocking people down ,we just don`t want to get involved .So while in public we need to pay attention ,to blow the whistle as a warning ,I have done that many times, is on my key chain ,great attention getting tool ,if your pants are too low, I will bring it to your attention too, but seriously we need to be on the lookout for danger and not paranoid mind you but mistrustful ,is a good way to be now days and especially in public. If you are a female and are driving home from work or shopping keep the rear mirror focus and take a few turns around before you actually pull into the driveway, hell I do that too, and go to the range as much as you possibly can ,is a great stress reliever.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

I had forgotten about this thread… lots of good information. I’m so very glad I had a chance to take the Urban Escape and Evasion class. I learned recently that Sam Coffman, Herbalist/Survivalist, has a similar class at his school near Austin TX. If I get a chance I’d like to take that one as well.

Sad fact of life, it’s a dangerous world. The only real edge we have is situational awareness. Many years ago I serviced catscans at night in Los Angeles. It happened to coincide with the highest murder rate in the city’s history (gang violence). For 3 years they averaged more than 6 murder’s a day, yes, a day! All the associated crimes went along with that rate.

I had to have eyes in the back of my head… It was very stressful. I simply had to be aware at all times once I left my home. Twice I narrowly avoided an attempted car jacking in hospital parking lots. LA was a war zone, almost. I knew a cop from a diner by my house. He was a vet. He told me once that he felt safer as a young man on patrol in Vietnam than patrolling the streets of LA (1992).


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## notyermomma (Feb 11, 2014)

People with serious mental illness are 11 times more likely to fall victim to violent crime than the general population. In a few weeks I'll be teaching a class on situational awareness at my agency. I'll do my best to walk that fine line of keeping it fun and entertaining so as not to trigger anyone's PTSD, but still show the importance of the skill. 

And yes, I will definitely be opening with that bear video.


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## Mase92 (Feb 4, 2013)

Loving this thread. Nice work all.

The older I get the worse my issues get with crowds.


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## sewingcreations15 (Aug 19, 2017)

Thanks Caribou . Yes as you point out some people are naturally more observant than others and if you are not observant by nature it takes a little more practice to get your skills honed in.


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