# Maybe I am a bit paranoid but this is what I did



## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I since i am limited t living in an apt hiding of caching any of my gear is out of the question.

So I had just kept it all in the towel closet next to my kitchen.

I mean ALL of it was there, both nice AR15's, most of my handguns thousands of rounds of revolver ammo and thousands of rounds of 5.56mm.
Lots of PMags too.

if someone where to break into my house even if they didnt search much as long as I was there they would be assured to find it all very quickly.

I was getting uncomfortable with this.

So I moved one rifle ( the better one) all but 1 Revolver and 60% of my total Ammo and 100% of my best Ammo to a sepearte closet coveered up with clothes.

No I am thiunking , even the remaining stuff is a LOT.
And will be percieved by a plundere as a mother lode.

In the happiness of finding that thye will proably be convinced this is <it>.
Maybe even argue/fight amongst each other for it.

And hopefully neglect to seacrh thoroughly thru the rest of the hosue.

this holds especially ture in a pre SHTF situaiton where in this relaitvely nice neighborhood crooks would be in a hurry to get in and out.
I did hve t lebve my clenaing kit in there though.

So now I have 2 locations;
1) my current location with my cheaper training and plinking Ammo (lots of it) and a few PMags my cleaning kits and my targets and stuff I use for day ot day range duties. a case of ( ancient) MRE's .This is still a lot of nice stuff that I am hopeful will distract the bad guys a lot..

2) A seperate semi hidden location w/ all my Lake City Ammo (which I cant shoot at the rnage due ot steel penetrator anyway) and my best .357 Mag Ammo (some of which I cant shoot at my local range) too. I also have a spare AR15 and revolver in there and most of my PMags, spare gun cleaning solution and my LBE

I am hopful during a break-in due to time pressure (I dont live in the boonies) the crooks would just want to spend minutes and will be busy stealing easily findable stash.

I know there are holes in these considerations but I feel it does give me a more favorable outcome in some situations as a missed 2nd Stash would stitll give me LOTs of gear and most of my best gear to boot.Plenty to have lots of security in a post SHTF world for some time.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

How about air conditoning vents?


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## Wanderer0101 (Nov 8, 2011)

I'd get a single shot, break barrel shotgun and couple of boxes of cheap shells and put them in the most obvious spot and hide the rest of the stuff real well.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

False panel in the closet. Paint it to match the rest of the closet. Fake bulkheads can be built. Even in an apartment, you can make things look like they've always been there.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

teotwaki said:


> How about air conditoning vents?


No good. Moisture would corrode any unsealed items.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> I since i am limited t living in an apt hiding of caching any of my gear is out of the question.
> 
> So I had just kept it all in the towel closet next to my kitchen.
> 
> ...


BlueZ

I don't mean to make you paranoid, but your biggest concern should be the apartments maintenance personal. When your gone they can come and go at there leisure.

I have friends that are maintenance personal at large apartment complexes , they let themselves in to the apartments when the renter is away to do what ever they do. They do not always tell the renters that they will need to get in. After a short time the these people know your routine (work, shopping etc.).

When I had an apartment, I came home from work and thought that something was different. They had came in while I was gone and replaced all the carpeting. I made the decision right then to move out of the apartment. I bought a acreage 30 miles out into the country. The apartment was only 2 miles from my job and I thought that would work great, but not at the risk of having some maintenance man tell his crooked friends that I had firearms.

I would move all of the firearms out of the apartment except 1 hand gun and put the rest in lockable storage.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

You can not hide stuff from a criminal.
If you have thought about a hiding place so have they.
They know where to look and they can be in and out very fast.
2 guys can thoroughly search an apartment in under a 90 seconds.
Someone sees you moving your guns between the car and the apt and they will get them if they want them.
Get something to lock them up or risk loosing them.
Even locked up they are at risk.
I would put a loud alarm on the door.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Tweto said:


> BlueZ
> 
> I don't mean to make you paranoid, but your biggest concern should be the apartments maintenance personal. When your gone they can come and go at there leisure.
> 
> ...


Very good point. Maybe false panels in furniture instead of the structure of the building itself. Kind of like a pull out bed in the sofa, a locking box build into the couch or table would work as well. Would be long enough to hold any rifle.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

ContinualHarvest said:


> No good. Moisture would corrode any unsealed items.


Well, an air conditioner is inherently a dehumidifier so the air is not damp at all but is actually fairly dry. That is why the AC unit has a drain pipe, to get rid of the condensate.

The actual problem comes from when the air flow shuts off and the stuff that you are hiding is cold enough for mositure in the air to condense on the exposed surfaces. It takes very little effort to protect things in plastic because they are not being submerged in water.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

ContinualHarvest said:


> False panel in the closet. Paint it to match the rest of the closet. Fake bulkheads can be built. Even in an apartment, you can make things look like they've always been there.


Except that the apartment does not belong to you so I would only consider such a thing if the situation is really looking bad. As was mentioned, the landlord gets in any time at all and even if you asked for permission your hidey hole is no longer a secret.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

BlueZ - If you are renting your apartment there is little that you can do beyond "hiding" your stuff in plain-sight. You could purchase a trunk (cedar-chest) and place a false-bottom in it and the fill the top 3/4s of the trunk with bedding (pillows, towels) and make sure to wrap each firearm in a soft-case so that they will make no noise if the chest is flipped for its contents.

If you have a couch, pull the cloth off the bottom, put a wooden box with latch inside the base, place a good portion of your stash in there and then staple the factory cloth back into place.

The more "factory" that you can make your secure boxes, the less likely that they would be looked at for a second glance.

:goodluck:


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Wow this thread has had a lot of replies 

- I hear you guys that I will never be able ot completly hide stff in an apt but if things are less obvious and take longer to find so much the better, especially since i and "hiding a huge cache in plain sight that I am hopeful will get folks ot think"this is it.
- I am also concerned about maintenance personel.

This is one reason why I did this.

I dont think they will search all apts here (and this is a high end apt complex at 1650/ mo mine is among the cheapest apts here) Another factor is that the maint personnel never have a clue when I am coming back as I am close to work and have irregular work hours and have been home *many* hours early or some hours late before.

I think my idea is not going to fix my inherent security problem comepletely but i hope itwill help alleviate it a bit and I felt a bit foolish before by making every thing super obvious and in one place..


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

backlash said:


> You can not hide stuff from a criminal.
> If you have thought about a hiding place so have they.
> They know where to look and they can be in and out very fast.
> 2 guys can thoroughly search an apartment in under a 90 seconds.
> ...


You know what I just LOVE about 'safes'? 

...

It tells the criminals "valuables HERE, in this nice, shiny box!" :gaah:

If you can afford a safe too heavy for thieves to carry off, you can afford to either rent a house or buy one.

Many wall safes have a damn tough _front_, but the other five sides can almost be opened with a can opener. :nuts:


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

backlash said:


> You can not hide stuff from a criminal.
> If you have thought about a hiding place so have they.
> They know where to look and they can be in and out very fast.
> 2 guys can thoroughly search an apartment in under a 90 seconds.
> ...


It depends. There's a wide range in skill sets among criminals. Some are drug addicts. Or opportunists. Some are professionals.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I think a good hiding place is the floor of a closet covered with about two feet of old shirts, socks, pants, jackets, and all kinds of other stuff you don't wear. I don't have an apartment. I have a house with a real messy basement and messy closets. That gives me all kinds of good hiding places for stuff.

Is it possible you could buy a house? It would be a lot better after it hits the fan too.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Waterbed frames (not waterbeds) make great already-built storage places... some 2x6s and a couple sheets of plywood under the mattress you replace that 2000+lb water bag with. :sssh:


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I like the false bottom in the chest and false wall in the closet ideas.

One word (if possible)
Dog.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

> You know what I just LOVE about 'safes'?


A safe only keeps out the honest people and small kids.
Anything you can do to slow down thieves helps, but not much.


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## Hoze928 (Aug 14, 2012)

I also live in an apt and struggle with the same issues. I went with the old cedar chest route with a thick wire rope along with an eye bolt the nut bing inside the chest and a serious lock. 90% of my weapons are locked inside and yes if someone had about 5 minutes and an axe they could get in pretty quick. My main purpose was the maintenance crew and the quick hit thief. All my ammo is in ammo boxes n the spare bedroom with my loader gear Bob bag always goes with me. Working so far plus having my 20 year old son coming and going at all times don't hurt.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

I worked a job where we had a pass key to enter every apartment. I knocked and if nobody answered after a sufficient amount of time, I let myself in and did my work. When I came to an apartment with a Spaniel in it, I could never get in without fear of a dog bite. They make a lot of noise too. They're just big enough to make a scene and scare you.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> A safe only keeps out the honest people and small kids.


There seems to be a wide spread belief that safes are easy to get in to and that there are high end thieves and safe crackers roaming the country looking for them. But when I take theft reports the common thread is that the safes were left unlocked and/or wide open because the owners were too lazy to take security seriously. I also tale reports where the bad guys took everything but the safe because they wanted to get in and out very quickly. I only remember 3-4 reports over the last decade where the bad guy took the time to crack open a safe and 2 times it ended up being a relative who burglarized them. Otherwise it's all crack heads and teenagers looking for a quick score, generally with little or no skill or planning.

My point is that there are many levels of security and safes come in all different shapes, sizes and strength. I decided to go with lower end safes (note I did not say "gun cabinet") then add other factors to deter or detect would-be thieves. My two Rottweilers being the only factors I am willing to disclose online. They are sisters and they have been trained well. Very well.

A buddy of mine has a "decoy gun cabinet" with 2-3 low end rifles and 2-3 low end handguns in it, none of which have firing pins and all of which are basically wall hangers. He leaves it locked with the key on top (like a lot of Americans do with their real safes/cabinets). It is sitting in his man cave right when you walk in the door. His real guns are secured elsewhere.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

You get what you pay for when it comes to safes. Also VERY important is where you put your safe and how it is secured to your structure. It is imperative that it be secured to AT LEAST the floor. Floor and wall would be better. Imo, the best way to position your gun safe is in a closet, with not much room on the sides, secured with lag bolts to floor and wall. This video shows why it is important to keep your safe upright. If this safe was upright these guys wouldn't have the leverage to get it open this quick.






You could also look into a security system that allows to to monitor your cameras on your smart phone.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

Sentry18 said:


> ---snip---. I only remember 3-4 reports over the last decade where the bad guy took the time to crack open a safe and 2 times it ended up being a relative who burglarized them. Otherwise it's all crack heads and teenagers looking for a quick score, generally with little or no skill or planning.


Excellent points. IIRC, the Columbine incident involved teenagers who took weapons from their grandfather's gun safe.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> ... even if they didnt search much as long as I was there they would be assured to find it all very quickly.
> 
> I was getting uncomfortable with this.....


Take off one of you closets doors and replace it with a hinged bookshelf. 

http://www.hiddendoors.com/galleryThumb.asp?RecordNo=7&category=13


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## phxrising (Jun 24, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> A buddy of mine has a "decoy gun cabinet" with 2-3 low end rifles and 2-3 low end handguns in it, none of which have firing pins and all of which are basically wall hangers. He leaves it locked with the key on top (like a lot of Americans do with their real safes/cabinets). It is sitting in his man cave right when you walk in the door. His real guns are secured elsewhere.


This is a great idea. Thanks for sharing:thankyou:


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

Build a retulangluar platform for your bed. Think back to waterbeds. Make two "x's" to suport the center weight, and a nice platform fdrom 1/2" plywood. Get rid of the box springs, so now you have a nice firm mattress firmed up by the platform and plywood. Now, you can store and hide things under the bed. Lots of space down there.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Not trying to poop on any ones parade, but any thief, be he a crackhead retard or a thief with skills will toss the bed. Under the bed and between mattress and box are common hiding spots. 

If you own firearms it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they are properly secured. PERIOD!!! Just hidden isn't good enough. How would you feel if some cretin stole your gun(s) and killed someone, (or you with your own gun) while committing another crime. PLEASE!!! Be responsible!! Get the best quality safe you can possibly afford and mount it PROPERLY!! Hide the whole safe in a closet and put a deadbolt or two on the closet too. 

Remember, safe gun handling doesn't start and end just when your hands are on the gun!!

Thank You.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

Also, like Sentry18 said earlier, "GUN SAFE" not "GUN CABINET"!! Big and crucial differences between the two. Better still is a "FIRE RATED SAFE". Basically the FR safe has double walls filled with concrete. More expensive and MUCH MUCH heavier. And harder to get into!


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Some of the LEOs on here may be able to verify this, but if your apartment is burglarized, its a good chance they already have information from someone what items of value you have and where it is.

I would say you have two choices. 1. Buy and properly install a gun safe. Thieves like to be in and out. Its not likely at all they will spend time trying to break into your safe. Can you just imagine the noise they would create in an apartment?

2. Rent a secure storage space close by.


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## Hoze928 (Aug 14, 2012)

I have checked around on some safes / gun safes but always seem to get turned off do to size and weight and price. Living in an apt on the 3rd floor anyone have any suggestions that would fit my limited budget and not wanting to haul an elephant up 3 flights of stairs. I do have a good place I can put it with a locked door.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Securing guns in an apartment is MUCH more difficult than in a house, but there is an upside; neighbors and lots of them. In the average house a burglar has time to search and invade. They can be somewhat noisy and cause damage without alarming anyone. In an apartment there is usually foot traffic in the hallways and people who are quick to complain if there's noise. So burglars are going to more concerned with getting in and out quickly and quietly. If you cannot invest in a good gun safe then I would consider a hidden gun cabinet or safe. Perhaps with a decoy cabinet as well. I would also make sure I had an alarm system, even if it was localized to the gun storage area, that made as much noise as possible if activated.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

pandamonium said:


> Not trying to poop on any ones parade, but any thief, be he a crackhead retard or a thief with skills will toss the bed. Under the bed and between mattress and box are common hiding spots.
> 
> If you own firearms it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to make sure they are properly secured. PERIOD!!! Just hidden isn't good enough. How would you feel if some cretin stole your gun(s) and killed someone, (or you with your own gun) while committing another crime. PLEASE!!! Be responsible!! Get the best quality safe you can possibly afford and mount it PROPERLY!! Hide the whole safe in a closet and put a deadbolt or two on the closet too.
> 
> ...


The consequent application of this logic will mean no one who live sin an apt can own a gun since gunsafing is not pracytical.

Same with military folks who move frequently.

Thats why I approach the hiding issue not as a gun safety issue ( why make the arguements for the gun grabbers easier? next they will requires us to have a 5000 dollar safe?) but as a survival issue to give me a chance to still have guns even after a successful break in.


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## redneckwildman (Aug 13, 2012)

I know a lady that has those hollow core doors in her house and splits them apart at the top and drops her money, deeds, and titles and important paperstuff in them. She says she has all her doors full with stuff, even thin packs of beans, bullets, and rice. 

Oh I'm sorry I did not read we were talking apartments.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

I paid 300 bucks for my safe. It weighs about 120 lbs, I have it lag bolted to the floor and the wall. It is tucked into a corner to make it harder to knock over. I take gun ownership very seriously, keeping my guns out of the wrong hands is, IMO, a big part of responsible ownership. Sorry is that rubs anyone the wrong way. :surrender:


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> I paid 300 bucks for my safe. It weighs about 120 lbs, I have it lag bolted to the floor and the wall. It is tucked into a corner to make it harder to knock over. I take gun ownership very seriously, keeping my guns out of the wrong hands is, IMO, a big part of responsible ownership. Sorry is that rubs anyone the wrong way. :surrender:


Here in Canada the rules on gun-ownership are much stricter thant the rules in many of the western states (California not included) but can be significantly easier to deal with than the rules of the eastern states (NewYork and Washington DC come to mind). It is easier for a Canadian to purchase a legal handgun than it is for someone in Washington DC.

With that being said, Canadian laws fall down to responsibility.

If firearms are _stored_ in the house, they must be under lock-n-key. If they are in use, they are no longer stored and then the safe-storage-laws no longer apply. For a house in Canada, the guns can be inside a closet with a lock on the door. That's it. Out of sight, out of mind and not quickly accessable. You are more than welcome to go a step-further and put a safe inside that locked room. You are more than welcome to go a step further than that and put trigger-locks on all the firearms inside that safe, inside that room. You can go another step further and pull the firing-pins and put them into a seperate locked container.

To get back to the original poster's (OP's) question - how can he safely keep his firearms secured? In Canada, we can display firearms on the wall or in a glass-case - just make sure that the firearm is cable-locked to the wall so that it isn't easily pulled down. If the OP wants to seperate his tools (firearms) to make it harder to get the whole collection, anything that he does (including putting an eye-bolt into the wall and then a cable through the trigger back to a padlock) will significantly slow down a thief - especially if every single firearm had its own eye-bolt and its own cable and its own lock.

I really like the idea that Sentry18 posted - hidden in plain view, just make sure that it wouldn't be easy to take the whole display case ...


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

If you can get cabinet grade plywood and know how to use basic hand tools any couch or chair becomes an instant gun safe.


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## Sfour321 (May 21, 2012)

Try removing a section of drywall/sheetrock on a interior wall (no insulation) between two studs, maybe a 16"w x18"-20"h, just high enough off the floor so that you could slide your longs in and still be able to reach them easily. Cover with mirror or poster.


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

when i lived in apartments i was more concerned with the resident managers who tended to be very nosy and misused their keys a lot, and with some casual guest asking to use the bathroom, then snooping in the linen closet, which is where my husband and I hid our valuables, back under the towels. We did two things:

1. We looked at the door locks, went to the store and bought different ones of the exact same brand, and changed them. Both doorknobs and deadbolts. This meant the resident managers' keys would no longer work. The lease said they would let us know if they wanted access for maintenance. We did this especially after we discovered that in our complex, changing the locks of an apartment meant taking a used one from another apartment and installing it. That meant anyone with an old key could go up and down the halls trying locks until they found the one that fit their old key.

2. We also bought a knob-locking door knob (sold for back doors and such) and replaced the linen closet knob (just a plain knob) with a locking one. Only the cop friend that lived next door noticed, and when I told him that was where I kept my weapon (I was a cop at that time) he did the same thing with his linen closet. We DID discover casual visitors trying the doors in that hall several times, but they never asked why the lock was there. When we moved out we replaced the old locks. 

Of course, a truly determined thief would still get in, but we were most worried about casual light fingered folk that would not bother to try to break a lock.


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## pandamonium (Feb 6, 2011)

NaeKid said:


> With that being said, Canadian laws fall down to responsibility.
> 
> If firearms are _stored_ in the house, they must be under lock-n-key. If they are in use, they are no longer stored and then the safe-storage-laws no longer apply. For a house in Canada, the guns can be inside a closet with a lock on the door. That's it.


Most places here do not require that your firearms be locked at all. And I did say MOST! The whole point is Bluez wants to secure his firearms. Putting them in the closet with alot of ammo isn't secure. Hiding only works if someone isn't looking!! A safe doesn't have to be 2000 pounds and hold 65 AR-15s to do the job. 
I also don't think chopping holes in the walls or floor of a rental apt is good either. As mentioned by others earlier in the thread, there are maintenance personel who more than likely have keys to the apt. I can promise that SOMEONE has noticed Z coming and going with rifle case(s). If someone knows they are there and that is what they are looking for then I promise you that the guns will be found in short order. 
I have a decent amount of money invested in my firearms and ammunition. I will be damned if I am going to make it easy for someone to steal my sh!t!!!!!

Obviously and ultimately it is up to the individual to make their own decisions.

I fit this into my 300 dollar safe. Well all but the bows and blades of course!!


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

A friend of mine leaves an inexpensive rifle out where it will be easy to find. He removes the firing pin so it can't be fired. He figures that as a gun is a great find for a thief he will probably grab and run. If it is ever stolen he will report it to the police, gun smiths, and gun shops in his area. Nobody will ever be able to fire this rifle without getting caught.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

BlueZ said:


> So now I have 2 locations...
> 
> I know there are holes in these considerations but


Hey, you can say that again. If I found a closet full of guns I would assume you might have more, just saying...

Do yourself a favor and buy a safe. I remember seeing one for sale that fits inside a platform bed and thus is a little camouflaged and weighed down by the weight and size of the bed.


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## Hoze928 (Aug 14, 2012)

Damn now I'm really freaked out about my weapons and living in an apt. Some good ideas on here thanks guess its time to find me a safe and some new door locks for my walk in closet.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

pandamonium said:


> Most places here do not require that your firearms be locked at all. And I did say MOST! The whole point is Bluez wants to secure his firearms. Putting them in the closet with alot of ammo isn't secure. Hiding only works if someone isn't looking!! A safe doesn't have to be 2000 pounds and hold 65 AR-15s to do the job.
> I also don't think chopping holes in the walls or floor of a rental apt is good either. As mentioned by others earlier in the thread, there are maintenance personel who more than likely have keys to the apt. I can promise that SOMEONE has noticed Z coming and going with rifle case(s). If someone knows they are there and that is what they are looking for then I promise you that the guns will be found in short order.
> I have a decent amount of money invested in my firearms and ammunition. I will be damned if I am going to make it easy for someone to steal my sh!t!!!!!
> 
> ...


Just like you I want to keep what is mine in my posession, so, like you I keep my toys locked up. That doesn't mean that they are all locked up and always locked up, but the real special ones are locked-up with several different systems. I won't go into details on what I own like you did (that is your choice) - but from the picture, I would say that we have fairly similar tastes


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

Some great thoughts and inputs from everyone here and I am grateful for i,t even if I argue back.

I find I always;learn something in such cases even if I dont come around right away.

I am also well aware that a determined and prfoessional group of thieves that is not in a big hurry will find my 2nd stash w/ ease, but i am hopeful that this is a small percentage of threats.

it is all about managing risk and finding your cost-benefit analysis.

Does my current approch pose a significant amount of remaining risk?
Absolutely, but it didnt cost me anything to do.

My Decoy Gun closet is there to serve well for those maintenance men who may have noticed me with my gun cases going to the range.
I go twice a week so its difficult to keep a secret..

Thats why my decoy gun location in the very first towel closet has so much nice stuff and is convincing as my "this is all folks" stash.
thousands of rounds of 5.56/.223, 38spc ,.357 Magnum, my tacticool AR and a couple of nice revolvers are in it.

I am hopful that many thieves/punks etc would be giddy with their success at this point and hurry out of the apartment (I am in a nice apt complex and I am sure they would want to be in and out quickly.) especially since a casual search of the rest of the apt brings up bubkis.

I had one non-professional break in before at a previous house where a similiar but inadvertent (!) approach worked (they missed my AR and my 5.56 but caught my AK and my Glock, which were in the open in my bedroom).

My AR which was only casually and inadvertently hidden was missed as was my all my AR Ammo.
So even after this break-in I still had the capability to put up a great fight if suddenly SHTF.

I suspect that many break ins are done not by professional thieves (how professional a thief can you be, and not be in jail 80% of the time other than in the movies?) but mostly by druggies/bored teens.

I admit my approch is only effective against the mainetance man long fingering anything or against punk druggie thieves or such low end threats.

I acknowledge the better solution is a house with a drug safe, but I live in a VERY expensive area for houses and since i must remain mobile for work moves, buying a house is out of the question for me.
(I still own one elsewhere too that I am renting out for less than the mortgage, sigh)

But I do believe low-end threats present the majority of my threat environment and this will help me manage my risk.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

There isn't such a thing as a cheap or inexpensive firearm these days. You worked to buy what you have... why allow some POS to steal any part of it?

I have one gun safe made by treadlock. It weighs about 250lbs, making it perfect for an apartment.. even one up several flights of stairs. Mine holds 15 long guns as well as handguns.

Don't settle for less security than you really need!


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I bought a safe from some company in OK and even with shipping to my house was around 700. Weighs like 400 bone empty and is fire rated and unless you are an expert safecracker (unlike the movies its lotsa time and lotsa diamond blades!!) Or goliath you aren't taking crap! Its so dang heavy if I sell my house the new owners get a safe!! Buy a good one and it will be your grandkids someday!


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