# Is it worth it?



## Backyardcreek (Feb 12, 2015)

Noticed that US GOV't is still offering 'rebates' for wind mills. Is it worth it for the average person to invest $3,000.00 +/- to invest I this? Where is the real trial data at for this?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

the only windmill that is economically feasible is the one that just pumps water.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Fer the average joe? Naw, I don't thin it be really practical. Now ifin ya can build one a yer own. Might be worth it ifin ya get lots a wind. Be one a the reasons ya see so many windmill farms round these parts. Wind blows most the time.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Backyardcreek said:


> Noticed that US GOV't is still offering 'rebates' for wind mills. Is it worth it for the average person to invest $3,000.00 +/- to invest I this? Where is the real trial data at for this?


It depends ENTIRELY on the "wind map" for your region.

If you live in the "Coteau hills region" (Coteau des Prairies) or certain parts of Texas, Colorado and California where the AVERAGE wind speed never ever drops below 10-15 MPH, then you will be fine.

Otherwise - no, it is not worth it.

US average wind speed map

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=2470


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Depends ... I would never advise wind power as your only source of home-grown power but even in places where wind speeds are only marginal a small wind turbine can kind of fill in the gaps left by solar. For example during stormy, cloudy weather when you have wind or when the wind is blowing at night. Choose the site for the tower well and make sure it's high enough over obstacles to get enough good, steady wind. Also be sure the wire size is adequate. Often the tower and wiring costs more than the wind turbine.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I heard that they are a high maintenance item but have no personal knowledge on that.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

Is it worth it?

IMO ... No...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Like mentioned, it really depends on the area, local costs, and what you are hoping to accomplish. 

Spending $3000 on a windmill would be very hard for me to recommend in most circumstances because options like solar power are so cheap, simple, durable, and available. Now, if it is a choice between spending $3000 on a vacation or $3000 on a wind turbine, that is a different equation. A turbine in a good location can provide power for decades with little maintenance, our family donated one to a local museum that was many decades old.

If the idea is just to have another alternative source of backup power, I would likely look for something less expensive. I have seen the most simple designs (blades mounted on an alternator) last for over a decade of constant service (until the aluminum mounting pole gave out). Never use aluminum in a situation that there is metal to metal wear, without ever inspecting it:facepalm: 

There are also some pretty easy ideas for building your own, particularly VAWTs, if you go that route then it only depends on how you see your time. If tinkering is something you enjoy, then your costs can be almost nothing, making all the power you do make, free. Now, the cheaper units and the ones you build yourself are not typically going to be as "efficient" but that is a confusing argument. The only "efficiency" that really matters imho is power/cost, or possible ability to generate at low wind speeds, something that VAWT typically excel at.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

My response is based on personal exerience both at home in MT and here at Lake Mead, Nevada. We have 230 watts of solar power on our motorhome and a 400 watt wind turbine. We sometimes have several cloudy days and often have wind around 10 mph with normally about10 to 15 days a month of winds of 25 MPH and up. The wind turbine just chugs away charging 8 to 10 amps on the low wind days and up around 30 amps on the high wind conditions. The solar panels put out about 13-14 amps for about five hours of direct sun for about 840 watts per day on a sunny day (about 70 percent of the time). The wind turbine doing ten amps for 20 hours per day produces about 2400 watts (we average about 50 percent of the days having moderate wind for 20 hours. (Varies greatly depending on which month you're talking about!) Monthly production is about 16,800 watts for solar and approx. 36,000 watts produced by wind per month. The nice thing is that cloudy days tend to be windy days so the combination works out well. I've run the generator about ten hours in the last three months to recharge the battery bank when the solar and wind combined could not keep up with our use. That's pretty good for being completely off grid. 

I would recommend that a person install solar first but if you have an adequate solar power system a wind turbine can make a helpful addition. They compliment each other nicely. We've used the wind turbine mostly in Nevada. It's biggest failing in MT was because our tower was too short. Our trees just keep getting taller every year! The largest issue keeping us from wind power in MT is the 100 foot tall tower we need. If we lived in eastern MT we could get by with a much shorter tower and they have more windy days.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Is a windmill worth it? Well, that depends on what you are trying to accomplish. There are seven wind zone levels with seven being the highest. The town I have lived in for over twenty years is either a 6 or a 6.5 depending on who does the calculation. Electricity costs $0.60/Kwh. Very few have gone with the windmill or solar panel option. 

One of my best friends just put in a combined wind and solar system. He is kicking himself for wasting so much money.

One of my neighbors, I can see his home from my second floor, has wind, solar, and a diesel generator. The cost of running a power line to his home is prohibitive. His wind and solar reduce the diesel expense as well as the wear and tear on the generator. With diesel fuel going for up to $7.75 some years this is significant. It has dropped a bit this year but it is still well over $6/gal. For him it is worth it. If he could hook up to the grid for a reasonable amount that would have been his first choice.

I have purchased a thousand watts of solar panel. Is it cost effective? No. Is it worth it? It is to me. When I was living on my sailboat the small solar panel, wind mill, and a towed generator provided electricity for my CPAP (I really like breathing), my desalinator, and my SSB radio. When the fuel pump on my engine quit in the middle of the Atlantic these systems were worth it to me.

What are you trying to accomplish? If all you want to do is to save money, probably not. If your primary goal is to have a backup and a secondary benefit of reducing monthly expenses then perhaps so.


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## ClemKadiddlehopper (Aug 15, 2014)

Wind and solar both need to be in place if being able to go off grid is desired. There isn't much sun here during the winter but there is lots of wind. During the summer there is lots of sun but the wind is more sporadic, and when it is raining; no sun usually too much wind. Ideally, days with sun and wind are desired.

As mentioned by others before me, the worth, depends on what your end game is. If it is independance from the grid than what value do you place on that? The physical dollars to purchase the system is not worth it in the sense that it won't pay for itself for an incredibly long time, but in terms of being able to tell the hydro company to stuff it when the time comes, and to not even know the power is off, is worth quite a bit in the mental comfort department.

Here the hydro company is out of control. Our costs keep shooting up with no end in sight. Our system means that my actual hydro use is very low but the delivery fees have almost doubled from 95 to 175. on last months bill. If they don't get their money one way, they get it another.

There will come a time when we will have to cut our ties with the hydro company and cut our power needs. At least we have the option.

Wind and solar don't work during ice storms but than hydro doesn't either. If one has been paying attention, everything is unplugged before the weather hits so the batteries will be sufficient to keep the important bits going for three days. It is necessary to run the generator every day to water the stock, so technically, the battteries are always being topped up any ways.

Batteries are the weak link. They have a shelf life and are expensive to replace but without them, one can expect the power to go off on those days of no sun or wind.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

mosquitomountainman said:


> We have ... a 400 watt wind turbine. ... often have wind around 10 mph with normally about 10-15 days a month of winds of 25 MPH and up. The wind turbine just chugs away charging 8 to 10 amps on the low wind days and up around 30 amps on the high wind conditions.


That is pretty impressive. What kind is it?


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## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

Did lots today but most important was 12 quarts of green beans canned. Trackhoe is finished or at least end of our money and will leave property tomorrow or Saturday. House site looking good. Husband will use rake on bulldozer so hopefully there won't be so much to pick up. Hopefully the hardwoods will live after getting vines out and yaupon from around them. Before he quit, he took out the dead cedar behind our existing home. Once he got the yaupon out, tree came easily. Husband will cut it and take to saw mill for cutting boards for mantle in new house. Happy dance


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

I realize this is an old thread but I thought some of you would be interested in my mid 80s wind turbine project. This is a 10KW 120 volt generator with a DC3 (C47 military) plane propeller hub with fiberglass cooling tower blades. It ran for about 5 yrs but I never could control the speed, it was replaced with a Jacobs 20kw turbine and ran for twenty years.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

zimmy said:


> I realize this is an old thread but I thought some of you would be interested in my mid 80s wind turbine project. This is a 10KW 120 volt generator with a DC3 (C47 military) plane propeller hub with fiberglass cooling tower blades. It ran for about 5 yrs but I never could control the speed, it was replaced with a Jacobs 20kw turbine and ran for twenty years.


That's amazing! Who engineered all that together??

The control cabs in the bottom pic look like you stole from an abandoned missile silo!


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

*Wind turbine*



LincTex said:


> That's amazing! Who engineered all that together??
> 
> The control cabs in the bottom pic look like you stole from an abandoned missile silo!


Three of us did, me, myself, and I.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

After 20 years of operation I removed the heavily modified Jacobs wind turbine from service. The unit was designed for 17.5 KW modified to operated up to 20Kw. After many lighting strikes, mechanical break downs, electrical problems, and continuous preventive maintenance, it was time to call it quits. I put my money into other renewable energy projects.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

Over the years I went trough a couple different inverters. I ran two of the gray cabinet inverters in parallel and eventually changed them out to the silver cabinet inverter with larger chokes and SCRs.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

After years of dumping my time and money into wind energy I decided it was time to move on to more logical projects like energy star appliances, LED lamps, window quilts, thermal solar, wood boiler, and both grid tie and stand alone solar electric.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

Quilted blinds on every window. 40 evacuated tubes for domestic hot water, wood boiler with 500 gal water storage, 10KW grid tie solar.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

Energy star appliances, 10KW grid tie solar, 2KW stand alone solar, domestic hot water heat pump. super insulation in attic and walls. Many new and redundant projects are in the works, some cannot be mentioned here. Remember, one is none, two is one.


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## zimmy (Aug 17, 2012)

All new additions will have hydronic heat consisting of a vapor barrier, foam insulation, aluminum plate, with pex tubing tubing fastened to the plates, this will be covered with bricks or concrete for thermal mass. The wood boiler shown on the previous page will be the primary heat source with solar collectors as the secondary source. Collectors will heat large tanks with pex tubing as heat exchangers.


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