# Best bow for the money....



## DM1791

Okay, a couple of years ago my tried and true bow got stolen. I had it stored in my mom's garage and someone kicked her door down. They took the bow, a generator, and a riding lawn mower. We think it was someone in the community (somewhat shocking given the fact she lives in a very small farming community) since they knew exactly what to go for and knew when to hit her when she wouldn't be home.

I'd had my bow (Browning) for 17 years, and loved it! Now I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having to replace it. So much time has passed since I got my original bow that I am very much behind the times as to the newest brands, technology, and all of that. 

So, any suggestions on makes and models of bow? I looked for a newer version of my Browning (can't remember the model off hand) and quickly found that bow tech has changed quite a bit in the past decade and a half. 

Also, anyone out there hunt with recurve/long bows? I've always been interested in learning how to shoot these, but wasn't sure about reliability, durability, accuracy, etc. One thing that attracts me to the wooden recurve is the sustainability of it. Also, it would let me use some of the super sharp obsidian points I've been knapping.

Thanks for the help.


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## Sentry18

I am not a bow shooter or hunter, but I have been researching them as I want to have something in my arsenal that does not require bullets. I am torn between getting a compound bow or a crossbow. Anyway I just saw this article the other day and it may help provide you some good info.

http://www.bowhuntingmag.com/gear-accessories/10-great-compound-bows-for-under-700/

And by the way there are many regional thieves who watch houses or entire neighborhoods for patterns. They may have been targeting something the saw in the open garage and then everything else was just opportunity.


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## DM1791

Sentry18 said:


> And by the way there are many regional thieves who watch houses or entire neighborhoods for patterns. They may have been targeting something the saw in the open garage and then everything else was just opportunity.


 That's very true, and you could be right on that. It doesn't help that mom has a bad habit of going off with the big garage door up and open for the world to see. She has gotten better about that since the break-in, though, thankfully.

Since my father and grandfather passed away within about six months of each other a few years back, the burden of taking care of the property has fallen more on her shoulders, and I think the strain of that is starting to get to her. We have poachers coming in on the land now too, and she is having a tough time keeping that under control.

I am starting to think that part of my 3-5 year plan is going to involve moving back home to keep an eye on the property and start managing the land. This is something I always knew would be down the road. It's part of having land in the family, but I figured it would be a good 20 years in the future.

Thanks for the website info. I'll take a look at that and see if any of those tickle my fancy, so to speak. I've also debated about the crossbow idea. I would like to get one, but I don't want that to be my main method of archery hunting at the moment. I like the quick follow up shots for a bow over a crossbow. The reloading process for some of the higher draw-weight crossbows can be quite elaborate and quite slow.

That being said, the few people I've talked to who hunt with crossbows love them.


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## mosquitomountainman

I've only heard good things about this bow and the price is about as good as you can get.

http://www.amazon.com/Samick-Sage-Takedown-Recurve-Bow/dp/B00H5776JE

I shoot traditional for a lot of reasons but from a prepper standpoint I'd only consider traditional archery for long-term reliability. There just isn't much to go wrong with them.

My next book will be out by mid-November. It's about alternate weapons for Preppers and covers Muzzle loaders (modern and traditional), Air Guns, Crossbows, and hand-held Bows/Arrows.

The second volume will cover things like slings, blowguns, boomerangs, and a bunch of other less known weapons. It'll be awhile for that one though!


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## DM1791

*Samick Sage*

Samick Sage is a model that has come up a lot in my research. That seems to consistently be the top pick in the "bang" for you buck category. I like the fact that you can interchange the limbs to adjust the draw weight as well.

I agree that traditional bows are much better from a long-term stand point for sustainability and reliability. I miss my old Browning, though... It wasn't as high-tech as most of the modern bows I've seen (and it weighed dang near a metric ton!) but I could stack 6 arrows in a 20oz drink bottle at 20 yards without even thinking about it. With real focus and a calm day, I could put 2 out of three in a bottle cap sized sticker from the same distance.

I know the mechanics of shooting traditional bows are different, so that will definitely take some adjustment and some re-learning. Can you utilize a trigger pull with a recurve bow, or do you have to do the finger tip method? Also, are there special broad-tip points for recurve bows versus compound? I've been reading a lot about the "toxic" broadheads that are designed to create a massive wound channel for easier tracking and quicker kills. Not sure if you can use those with a traditional bow, though.


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## mosquitomountainman

DM1791 said:


> Samick Sage is a model that has come up a lot in my research. That seems to consistently be the top pick in the "bang" for you buck category. I like the fact that you can interchange the limbs to adjust the draw weight as well.
> 
> I agree that traditional bows are much better from a long-term stand point for sustainability and reliability. I miss my old Browning, though... It wasn't as high-tech as most of the modern bows I've seen (and it weighed dang near a metric ton!) but I could stack 6 arrows in a 20oz drink bottle at 20 yards without even thinking about it. With real focus and a calm day, I could put 2 out of three in a bottle cap sized sticker from the same distance.
> 
> I know the mechanics of shooting traditional bows are different, so that will definitely take some adjustment and some re-learning. Can you utilize a trigger pull with a recurve bow, or do you have to do the finger tip method? Also, are there special broad-tip points for recurve bows versus compound? I've been reading a lot about the "toxic" broadheads that are designed to create a massive wound channel for easier tracking and quicker kills. Not sure if you can use those with a traditional bow, though.


Uhmm ... are you left-handed by any chance?

You can shoot anything out of a traditional bow that you can a compound (including broadheads). You can use a release if you want. You can also use sights, bow quiver, stabilizers, etc. Overall a standard, two blade broadhead has the best penetration of any type. Cut-on-contact broadheads also have better penetration.

If you shoot off the shelf (as opposed to a "stick-on" arrow rest) you'll need to use feathers instead of plastic vanes on your arrows.

Don't overbow yourself. Too many people try to shoot bows that take too many pounds of effort to pull. A 50 pound draw recurve will take (and has taken) anything in North America including Kodiak and Grizzly bears and moose. Once you are good with 50 lbs. then go higher if you want. Just remember, a good hit with a 50 lb. bow is a lot better than a miss or poor hit with a 65 lb. bow.

There's a book out that's probably the best I've ever seen regarding archery. The title is: _Timeless Bowhunting _by Roy Marlow (http://www.amazon.com/Timeless-Bowhunting-Art-Science-Spirit/dp/081173207X/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413841081&sr=1-1-fkmr0&keywords=Timeless+Bowhunting+Marlowe. It's definitely worth reading for anyone who doesn't already have all the answers. If you can't get it through your library then buy it.

Large multi-blade or exotic broadheads look good in the package but their field performance on game is only marginally better than a good, two-blade, cut-on-contact broadhead glued to a well-tuned, straight flying arrow. The best place to spend time and money is to become the best shot and best hunter you can be. Equipment is secondary consideration. For centuries mankind killed all kinds of game with homemade wooden bows, and arrows. "Ultra-modern" gadgets and trinkets are more for about profits from hunters than killing game animals any deader than the American Indians did 150 years ago using wood bows and stone arrowheads.


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## DM1791

Yeah, all good points.

I'm not left handed by any means. Not sure why that would matter other than making sure not to buy a left-handed bow. 

As far as the poundage, my plan was to start with a 35 pound draw to get the mechanics down and to kind of aquaint myself with the bow. Then I will step up to larger draw weights as I feel comfortable with it. I definitely wouldn't go over a 50-55 pound draw on a recurve, though. From everythign I've read, there just isn't any need.

I do plan on setting up multiple fully functioning archery sets, so I think the recurve is the way to go. It would just cost way too much to do it with compound bows. With a takedown bow like the Sage, I can buy backup bows in pieces to offset the cost, which is a HUGE benefit as well.

I was more curious whether there was a mechanical failure to using more modern broadhead designs with a classic recurve bow. I probably won't be getting much, if any, of those fancy new-fangled broadheads. When I used to do hunting with my Browning I had simple Thunderhead 125grain points, and they served me just fine. No moving parts, and no exotic geometry.... just super sharp steel and a solid construction. 

One of the main reasons I'm looking recurve, though, is to be able to use some of my hand-made obsidian points. I've cut my fingers and hands to ribbons making them, might as well see what they can do against a deer at 25 yards.


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## *Andi

I'm a crossbow person ... What can I say but they work for me. 

I can't give you a model because my dad made it just for me ... (So I'm of little help there ...)

So I would say to try a few and see which works best for you ... Best of luck and let us know how it works for you...


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## mosquitomountainman

*Andi said:


> I'm a crossbow person ... What can I say but they work for me.
> 
> I can't give you a model because my dad made it just for me ... (So I'm of little help there ...)
> 
> So I would say to try a few and see which works best for you ... Best of luck and let us know how it works for you...


As a prepper, if I _had_ to choose _between_ a hand-held bow _or_ a crossbow it would be the crossbow. They're just more effective overall!

I'd also prefer a recurve or straight limb crossbow over a compound because they are lighter and more trouble free.


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## mosquitomountainman

DM1791 said:


> ...I'm not left handed by any means. Not sure why that would matter other than making sure not to buy a left-handed bow. ...


I have an old left-hand compound bow I'd give to someone if they'd pay the shipping. It's the old (really old!) Browning type with the wood riser section.

Steve


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## LincTex

A buddy of mine who is an AVID hog hinter here in Texas uses Bear and Shakespeare recurve bows. His wife's bow is a Maddog.

My favorite compound is a Hoyt from the late 90's or early 2000's. I really love everything about it. I forget the model name.

I also have a Martin Warthog - like the Dukes of Hazzard used in the late 70's. That ones takes much more skill to be good at using!! It isn't as "friendly" as the Hoyt at all.



mosquitomountainman said:


> I have an old left-hand compound bow I'd give to someone if they'd pay the shipping. It's the old (really old!) Browning type with the wood riser section.


Ebay it!

I'll bet you get $50 for it!


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## JustCliff

If you go for the Samik, be prepared to sand and refinish the riser. They are a bit rough around the grip from the factory. Also you may want to start with a 25lb weight. It will help you get the basics of traditional shooting and wont wear out your arms so much.
I have a Martin long bow a couple of no name recurves, a Bear white tail II compound set up for fishing, Bear Ultralight compound bow and an Excalibur phoenix crossbow.
You can look on ebay and Craigslist for for used bows to get you started.


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## mosquitomountainman

I have an old Martin ML 10 longbow (65 lb. draw). Ebay is pricey if you want one in hunting draw weights. Haven't tried Craigslist.


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## Backwoodsman1968

I started out with stick now and recurves in the 70's. Theres a steep learning curve with then and to be proficient you have to shoot a lot and they are much more user intensive in storing etc. i didnt start with compounds till '93. Ive only owned a few i hunted with. And ive hunted a lot with a bow. I even built my own broad heads for the stick bows and well into the 90's. The bow i killed too many deer to mention here was a Bear Grizzly Supreme 48lbs, 31" draw, aluminum with Muzzy 100gr 4 blades. I git away from Muzzy when Stan Potts became a spokesperson, i know him personally. I shoot 100gr Viper Venoms now and had switched to a Diamond Razorback before my shoulder was crushed. Now im a cross bow man. For a "survival bow" where the learning curve is small and many may have to use just one device, crossbow. I killed lost of my game on the ground then and now. Crossbows shine for that. Anyone in illinois can use one the weekend after thanksgiving and mine was used my many last year that couldnt pull a vertical bow. That reinforced my belief in a crossbow for a SHTF scenario. Mines a recurve by the way and its a lot easier to maintain then any compound or traditional vertical bow ive ever owned, i was a bowyer at one time too and built several i hunted with. If you want to get into a entry level $100 or less now look for used Bear Grizzly Supremes. Mine took more deer then many guys do in an entire hunting career and i traded it off and its still going strong. Was a '98 model if i remember right?


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## HardCider

I too started with a recurve in the 70's and still hunt with them. I have made several selfbows, flatbows and longbows as well. I love the stability and simplicity of traditional archery. I have hunted and killed game from little snipe and small game up to deer and bear. I have never tried a compound or a crossbow but my brother is deadly with both. Learn to make and build your own gear if you really what sustainability. It's not that hard and there is something very satisfying about making meat with tools you made yourself.


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## DM1791

*Making my own....*

Making my own bow is definitely something I want to try......eventually.... However, I would also like at least 2 working recurves that I know are functional and reliable. And, since my carpentry skills are somewhat less than stellar, that means purchasing them.

There are some things I feel relatively comfortable making.... For instance, the obsidian and glass points for arrows. I've gotten decently skilled at that, though I will be the first to admit that I have a lot of room for improvement there. I haven't tried fletching an arrow yet, though I've seen it done several times. I think with some practice I could probably accomplish this as well.

Carving a bow, on the other hand, is a different matter.

On a side note, has anyone done much hunting with stone/glass points? I'm interested in getting some real world reports of the effectiveness of obsidian an other types of knapped points. I have several designs of varying caliber from average broadhead size that could easily take down a deer all the way down to needle-shaped points intended for small game like squirrels, rabbits, and large birds and I'd like to see how similar points have performed in the field.


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## Backwoodsman1968

My ex wife's cousin and his father n law are knapped and hunt with flint only(well did, his father n law passed away recently). They prefer blunts for rabbits, squirrels etc. stone will kill of course but its a lot tougher to hunt with. They sell(sold) a lot of stone to collectors and several museums had them make pipes etc too. I tried knapped arrowheads. Not my cup of tea. I still like working flint and i knap my flints for my flintlocks. Theres a reason the Indians wanted iron(metal)arrowheads. It is rewarding making your own gear and taking game and its a good skill to have but since i cant draw a conventional bow anymore its not an option for me. Theres a lot of stuff on YouTube thats good. At one time Randy had some videos there too. His father n law made a living knap ping and making "artifacts". With archery gear theres little room for error and with stone tips even less. Theres a reason Indians used pit traps and buffalo jumps etc. hard way to put meat in the table but it can be done. Incidentally bows can be made from things other then wood staves. Experimenting weve made them from many things, PVC for one, "lab boards" for the old plaster walls, we've tried quite a few things that just had a little spring to it. Also any vertical bow can be made into a horizontal bow(crossbow). Ive seen many examples of this by frugal hunters. Most states require a safety and that about the hardest part to come up with.


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## mosquitomountainman

DM1791 said:


> Making my own bow is definitely something I want to try......eventually.... However, I would also like at least 2 working recurves that I know are functional and reliable. And, since my carpentry skills are somewhat less than stellar, that means purchasing them.
> 
> There are some things I feel relatively comfortable making.... For instance, the obsidian and glass points for arrows. I've gotten decently skilled at that, though I will be the first to admit that I have a lot of room for improvement there. I haven't tried fletching an arrow yet, though I've seen it done several times. I think with some practice I could probably accomplish this as well.
> 
> Carving a bow, on the other hand, is a different matter.
> 
> On a side note, has anyone done much hunting with stone/glass points? I'm interested in getting some real world reports of the effectiveness of obsidian an other types of knapped points. I have several designs of varying caliber from average broadhead size that could easily take down a deer all the way down to needle-shaped points intended for small game like squirrels, rabbits, and large birds and I'd like to see how similar points have performed in the field.


Fletching an arrow is easy if you use a jig and not too difficult the way the Indians did it either.

The small points used to be called "bird" points in the past but recent study and the experiences of flint knappers have shown pretty decisively that these points were used for hunting deer and other medium sized game animals. Sure, the animals don't die as quickly but the Indians were master trackers and could find animals they'd shot. They pretty much universally used blunts for hunting small game. In some ancient tribes, rabbits were often run to the ground and caught by hand by the boys of the tribe. (I used to be able to catch young wild rabbits this way as a 12-18 year-old. I'd ride on the steps of the combine and when a young rabbit - up to half grown - ran out through the stubble away from the combine I'd give chase and catch it. I had to repeat it quite often to disbelieving relatives! And I was a city boy who just did it for entertainment!)

If you're interested in making a bow you can get a rough cut blank through Rudderbows. They're cut to form and the string notches are cut or they'll sell you a blank or even a laminated bow blank (or a finished bow if that's what you want). They'll also sell you a book on how to do it or you can go to your library or you-tube for instructions. It's pretty easy when working with a semi-finished blank. All you need to do is tiller it and apply a finish of some sort. It's a good way to get your feet wet making your first self-bow.

Bingham Bows also sell kits or materials for laminated bows. They have good instructional vides and books as well. These are nice bows when you're finished. They also sell arrow making materials too.

Once you know what you need you can go online for better prices.


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## TheManComesAround

I LOVE my Fred Bear Super Kodiak.......unfortunately, so does my Nephew - and he has more time to hunt than me. Little $hi+ is a better shot with it than me.....!


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## DM1791

mosquitomountainman said:


> Fletching an arrow is easy if you use a jig and not too difficult the way the Indians did it either.
> 
> The small points used to be called "bird" points in the past but recent study and the experiences of flint knappers have shown pretty decisively that these points were used for hunting deer and other medium sized game animals. Sure, the animals don't die as quickly but the Indians were master trackers and could find animals they'd shot. They pretty much universally used blunts for hunting small game. In some ancient tribes, rabbits were often run to the ground and caught by hand by the boys of the tribe...
> 
> .


 That's interesting... I have several points in my collection that I found that are quite a bit smaller than my thumb nail. It's very hard to imagine a point that size bringing down a white tail.... haha.

I wonder why they wouldn't want a tip on the arrow for a squirrel or a rabbit? Does it damage the meat too much? I figured that it would be better because you'd be more likely to get a good kill shot than with a blunt arrow.

I'll have to do some reading and research on that... Certainly makes me re-evaluate the purpose of some of the points in my collection.


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## mosquitomountainman

DM1791 said:


> That's interesting... I have several points in my collection that I found that are quite a bit smaller than my thumb nail. It's very hard to imagine a point that size bringing down a white tail.... haha.
> 
> *I wonder why they wouldn't want a tip on the arrow for a squirrel or a rabbit? *Does it damage the meat too much? I figured that it would be better because you'd be more likely to get a good kill shot than with a blunt arrow.
> 
> I'll have to do some reading and research on that... Certainly makes me re-evaluate the purpose of some of the points in my collection.


Mostly it's economy of motion. Why go to the work of making and attaching a stone point when a blunt tip works as good if not better? Also, why throw away a perfectly good arrowhead just because it doesn't fit modern perceptions of size? I had a friend who accidentally used a field tip to shoot a deer. The deer died within 50 feet of being hit. The arrow went right through the heart. (He did not intentionally use the field point!) He is an outstanding shot with a bow.

A good shot, even with a small arrowhead will kill quickly and cleanly. And like I said, they were expert trackers as well.

The second point is that you can reuse a blunt tipped arrow many times. How many rabbits are you going to kill before the tip needs replaced? Imagine being a stone age hunter under stone age conditions. Would you expend the effort to knap and attach an arrowhead that was good for one shot at 8 ounces of meat?


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## DM1791

mosquitomountainman said:


> Mostly it's economy of motion. Why go to the work of making and attaching a stone point when a blunt tip works as good if not better? ...
> 
> The second point is that you can reuse a blunt tipped arrow many times. How many rabbits are you going to kill before the tip needs replaced? Imagine being a stone age hunter under stone age conditions. Would you expend the effort to knap and attach an arrowhead that was good for one shot at 8 ounces of meat?


 Good points (pun intended). I guess it is sometimes difficult for me to think of things from the stone age perspective. One of the benefits (or curses, depending on how you look at it) of modern society here in the US is that we typically have so much abundance of food and energy that really paying attention to the consumption of such things becomes a completely ignored factor. Under extreme survival conditions, though, I can see why spending 2-4 hours carefully shaping a flake into a small game point would be a useless waste of calories, time, and material.

As a side note, I knapped a piece of obsidian yesterday. First stone I've chipped in more than a year. Between our new baby girl (19 months is still "new"), move to a new house, change in position at work, etc. etc. I haven't had much time for knapping lately. Long story short, I carefully shaped a nice palm sized preform from a beautiful piece of smooth, clear obsidian over the course of two hours. Then, one wrong strike on a bad platform, and the thing snapped into 3 pieces. :brickwall:

I took one of the larger shards and shaped it into a rough, but functional point. The other two pieces are too small for anything but a "bird" point or a very small scraper/cutter flake tool.

Apparently knapping is not like riding a bike.


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## DM1791

*Update...*

Okay.... Figured I would post a little about this weekend's experience.

I looked up a local archery shop and stopped by to get some hands-on info on some of the bows I've been researching online. I was pretty impressed with the selection they had available. There were probably 150 different compound bows ranging in price from 299 up to 1799. They also had a decent selection (probably 20 or so) crossbows in various sizes, draw weights, and what not.

Along the back wall were the recurve and long bows. All total, there were around 15-20 of these, which was honestly more than I was expecting. The recurves were of three main manufacturers... Martin, Samick, and PSE.

After looking closely at the risers and limbs on each of the bows they had available in the 110-150 price range, the Samick Sage was hands down the winner in my admittedly limited opinion. The riser on several of the PSE bows was thin at the grip, and one had stress cracks clearly visible in the wood that seemed likely to cause a problem down the road. The Martins weren't bad, but there is just something that feels unnatural to me about an aluminum riser on a recurve bow.

All around, the Samick Sage had a very natural feel in the hand and was comfortable to draw. The riser was good quality wood with a nice, though not artistic, finish. The limbs were solid and well-made with no cracks in either the riser or the limbs. The only one they had assembled was a 40lbs. draw, which is higher than I would start out with, but still felt very comfortable in my hands.

I didn't get a chance to shoot anything, but there was an archery class going and they allowed me to observe for a little while. Two people were using compound bows and two were using recurves (nice it worked out that way, eh?). All around, there wasn't all that much difference in the accuracy among the students. I know a lot of that has to do with the archer, but the equipment plays a significant role there as well. The two recurves were being shot by younger kids (12-14 probably) and they used them with no attached sights, but were still able to stack arrows in a 4 inch circle at 15 yards with no trouble.

At the far end of the range was an older gentleman with an antique (and absolutely beautiful) one-piece recurve that was impressive as all get out. Highly polished, beautiful dark and light wood pattern. Not sure the maker, but it was a huge bow with relatively hefty limbs (I'd say in the 55-65# range). That thing was accurate and the arrow speed off of it seemed at least comparable to the two modern hunting compound bows that were being used.

Long story short (relatively speaking) I was impressed with the Samick Sage and will be purchasing one in the next couple of months (assuming Santa doesn't decide to drop one off this December). Even with the accessories and add-ons I plan to get (upgraded string, silencers, quiver, etc.) I will still come out around 150-200 dollars cheaper than even the least expensive compound bow hunting package. I do plan on getting another compound bow down the road, but only when I am able to save up to afford one that is good quality and after I have set up at least one (probably 2-3) full recurve sets.


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## Turtle

I have a Samick Sage which I bought about five years ago. Great bow! I think I paid $125 for it? I also have an ancient Bear compound which I bought from a pawn shop about twenty years ago. Pretty sure that I paid about $35 bucks for that one. 


Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


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## DM1791

Turtle said:


> I have a Samick Sage which I bought about five years ago. Great bow! I think I paid $125 for it? I also have an ancient Bear compound which I bought from a pawn shop about twenty years ago. Pretty sure that I paid about $35 bucks for that one.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Survival Forum


 Yeah, once deer season closes out this year, I am going to make a round of the pawn shops in the area and some certain "list" sites that offer things up for sale. Hopefully someone will have a bow but not a taste for archery.... :nuts:


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## LincTex

DM1791 said:


> I do plan on getting another compound bow down the road, but only when I am able to save up to afford one that is good quality and after I have set up at least one (probably 2-3) full recurve sets.


My Hoyt came from ebay, quite a few years ago already. I'm really happy with it, and it had some nice accessories - for about $130 to my door.


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## LincTex

DM1791 said:


> I am going to make a round of the pawn shops in the area and some certain "list" sites that offer things up for sale.


Craigslist around here = 
1) overpriced items that stay listed for weeks
2) fair priced items that are gone in 1-2hrs after being listed

Have to check often (and be a fast caller) to see the good deals


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