# Optics



## raMONA (Nov 25, 2008)

Aside from iron sights, what sort of optics (scopes) do you use.

I've been tempted to get an inexpensive "red dot" -type scope, but scopes like that use batteries. I don't want to find myself relying on whether my batteries are working or not when the SHTF.


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## marilynhanson (Nov 25, 2008)

I would use anything except the ones for BB guns from walmart (they barely enhance anything)


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## saintsfanbrian (Oct 30, 2008)

If the SHTF Iron Sights would be the way to go. Sure there are special forces out there that use optics but the average ground pounder doesn't. You won't be going for "precision" hits simply hitting a man sized target at distance.

A greater likelihood is that the confrontation will come at a much closer distance when point shooting will suffice for hitting your target in a manner to cause them to change their minds.

If you are planning on being in the woods "sniping" then that is an entirely different story. If you are defending your home from looters and rioters, the more ammo and quicker you can put shots "down range" the better. Just remember you are responsible for the bullets that leave your gun. You hit an innocent person and you can be charged.


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## ke4sky (Oct 21, 2008)

*Trijicon RX09-23 with A.R.M.S. #15 Throw Lever Mount*

I use a Marlin 1894CB as my basic utility rifle. It is equipped with the XS Lever Scout rail used to install a Trijicon RX-03-23 with tritium illuminated chevron reticle which is visible in any light and requires no batteries. See: http://www.trijicon.com/faq.cfm

Chevron reticle enables a precise aiming point. The ARMS throw-lever mount positions the optic low over the bore, positioned at the balance point so the rifle throws up naturally and provides a full field of view in snap shooting. When zeroed with 158-gr. SWC .38 Specials to hit at the point of the chevron at 25 yards for small game, full-power 158-gr. .357 Magnums hit 3 inches above the point of the chevron at 100 yards, providing a 150-yd. point-blank range. Using the chevron point on the head and bracketing the legs against the target centers the group on an Army F silhouette at 200 yards.

The XS Lever-Scout mounts supposedly don't fit octagon barrels, but are easy to adapt. Degrease the underside of the scope base. Apply release agent to the barrel. Place a pea-sized dab of Acraglas gel on the underside of the rail, an inch forward of the front dovetail anchor point. Locate the front of the rail to clear the barrel by inserting a flexible .020 plastic shim, snug the screws down and Loctite them. When the thread sealant has set up pull out the front rail locating shim.

The XS Lever Scout rail slots are dimensioned to fit Weaver bases. Fitting to a Picatinny base requires determining which cross-slot you want to locate the mount into. You then adjust slot width and depth with a square Swiss needle file to enable the crossbar to press-fit into it. Retract the thumb clamps and slide the mount over the front of the rail. The rear mount clamp tightens against the side angles of the rail only.

The front mount clamp locating crossbar is intended to be a press-fit in its slot. You want no slop after you have fitted the crossbar by touching up the slot depth and corners. After fitting properlyl, the thumb-lever mount is a quick disconnect with perfect return to zero. So I can use either the optic or backup ghost ring peep sight at will.

My backup iron sights are: 
APERTURE REAR SIGHTS at Brownells
006-103-300 Fits Marlin 30AS, 336, 1894 $60.00

I have these zeroed 3 inches high at 100 yards with magnum ammo, and normal 158-gr. .38 Specials shoot on at 50 yards.


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## poolboy (Nov 26, 2008)

Won't the tritium in your scope reach it's half-life in 12.32 years?


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## ke4sky (Oct 21, 2008)

*12.32 years beats any battery*



poolboy said:


> Won't the tritium in your scope reach it's half-life in 12.32 years?


Yes it will. I know of no battery operated device that will last that long.
In 12 years you would replace dozens of lithium batteries which will have outgassed enough sulphur dioxide to fry the electronics long before that.

I will be 72 years old then. If I'm still shooting and if Trijicon is still in business they will replace the H3 capsule free under their lifetime warranty. 
If they aren't, I'll ask the space aliens to sign me up and issue me whatever the current phaser or ray gun is then popular amongst the militia.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

raMONA said:


> Aside from iron sights, what sort of optics (scopes) do you use.
> 
> I've been tempted to get an inexpensive "red dot" -type scope, but scopes like that use batteries. I don't want to find myself relying on whether my batteries are working or not when the SHTF.


First of all, SHTF won't happen, it's a contrived idea designed an implemented to make you consume...
(Why do you think advertising costs BILLIONS every year!)

Secondly, 
Get a GOOD 'Red Dot' optic.
The better brands will use AA batteries, and rechargeable AA batteries are fairly cheap and available everywhere.

I have rechargers that plug into vehicle lighters, and now I'm using a solar battery charger panel to recharge my batteries!

Sure beats buying batteries made in 'CHINA' over and over again,
And it keeps disposable batteries out of landfills.
Batteries are one of the most toxic things you can put in the trash!

THIRD,
Cheap 'Red Dot' optics have about a 5 MOA (Minute Of Angle) zero capability, that's only 5 inches at 100 yards.
Not very applicable for small game hunting!

Better 'Red Dot', even though the will start at about $300, will have a 1 or 1.5 MOA range.

FOURTH,
Batteries in mine have lasted YEARS since when I do have them on (Which isn't very often), I turn the intensity DOWN...
Guys in Iraq are reporting months of constantly 'ON' when they are turned down low...
They often never bother to turn the 'OFF' just turn them down and leave them on full time.

FIFTH,
Turning them down low also makes the 'Dot' smaller, so it's more accurate.
My red dot is always adjusted so it's only SLIGHTLY brighter than the surrounding terrain I'm in...
Smaller dot will *HELP* Make a cheap one more accurate, but it's no substitute for a good optic in the first place!

Your optics should always cost more than your firearms!
A $100 rifle with a $500 optic will be much more useful that a $1,000 Rifle with a $30 optic on it!

If you ever go to International shooting events, like hunts or such, you can always tell the Americans from the Europeans...
Americans will have $1,000 Rifles with $100 worth of sights/optics & Mounts,
While Europeans will have well tuned $100 rifles with $1,000 in optics and mounts!
(the average European will do better than the average American too. We're not talking trained shooters here, just people at shooting events...)


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

I almost forgot,
I set my 'Red Dot' up on the AR-15 I use for training Police with the iron sights aligned with the 'Red Dot'.

The red 'Dot' appears right at the top of the front sight post when you have the sights aligned.

If the batteries fail, you still have the iron sights visible, and you can remove your 'Red Dot' at your leisure and default to iron sights completely.

If you don't have 'Stand Up' sights on your rifle like flat top AR's use, this won't work for you too well.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

ke4sky said:


> Yes it will. I know of no battery operated device that will last that long.
> In 12 years you would replace dozens of lithium batteries which will have outgassed enough sulphur dioxide to fry the electronics long before that.
> 
> I will be 72 years old then. If I'm still shooting and if Trijicon is still in business they will replace the H3 capsule free under their lifetime warranty.
> If they aren't, I'll ask the space aliens to sign me up and issue me whatever the current phaser or ray gun is then popular amongst the militia.


You will also have received a serious dose of radiation directly to the lenses and retina of your eye if you shoot very much.
The lens will have an 800% higher chance of cataracts, 
the retina will have 1,200% higher chances of early macular degeneration.
Even very short term use can cause serious night vision problems.

That's why the military is moving away from Tritium for low light situations.
---------------------------

Tritium sights weren't allowed on our training firearms, 
They also were allowed in/on radiation sensitive areas, including any place nuclear weapons were stored, ships or aircraft that fire or monitor nuclear strikes, ect.

Even the tritium in our watches was had to go...
Sets off the radiation sensors in those monitored areas.


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## RodUSMC (May 25, 2012)

JeepHammer said:


> You will also have received a serious dose of radiation directly to the lenses and retina of your eye if you shoot very much.
> The lens will have an 800% higher chance of cataracts,
> the retina will have 1,200% higher chances of early macular degeneration.


Please quote your sources for this. Very likely absolutely false.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

He can't.he left ages ago.


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

That's good he left, he sounds like a moron. I have an eotech. It was 400 bucks and worth every penny! And backup iron sights too. The eotech is simply amazing and the worse your eyesight is the more you need it. A big field of view and adjustable intensity.


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