# If the S.H.T.F. what would barter value be?



## neil-v1 (Jan 22, 2010)

I am curious. If there was a meltdown in the U.S., what would be the barter value of say a can of corn or a 12 oz jar of honey? I am sure everyone has there own ideas and values and I thought I would ask because I want to always make sure I have the right things on hand that would equal what some / most would think are the barter values of certain goods. 

In talking face to face with people and also reading online, I was surprised at how many people think they will just take someone elses goods. That seems like a stupid plan to me.


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## HarleyRider (Mar 1, 2010)

If they try taking my goods, believe me, the cost to them would by far outweigh the benefit.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I think that for barter each person would have a different idea of what would be more valuable. I like my sweets but for long term- salt would be more valuable. I could use salt to cure and smoke many meats and fish to make it last the winter, while sugar/honey would just be for flavor. But I do know how to make maple syrup and maple sugar so I could just make my own.
Like fish hooks, to me they would become as good as gold (as long as it wasn't some kind of toxic accident that polluted the rivers and lakes) as Michigan is covered with rivers and lakes. 
There are always gonna be people who like alcohol and think it would be worth quite a bit, and then we can't forget about tobacco, it would be also worth quite a bit barter wise.

There are just so many things that we (as in us as a nation) are so used to having that it is a bit hard to really pin down what would be the "be all and end all" best for barter.

Personally I do believe that my hoard of heirloom seeds that I maintain and grow would also become more valuable than gold or cash or even honey.. That and the information on how to grow and save seed for and preserve my produce would be very in demand. Just my opinion tho. Quite a few of my friends probably think that I am nuts :nuts:, but we will see who has the last laugh.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

My preps involve a lot of barter skills and replenishable barter products. However, in our "give and take " society. (You give it or I'll take it because I am owed it), I will not be bartering until some natural thinning out occurs, or a major change of mindset. I won't barter on credit, labor yes.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Barter is like everything else. It's worth whatever people are willing to give. For a man who fears being robbed who has food and a weapon but no ammo? He'd trade a can of corn for a single bullet. A starving person might trade a gold coin or a diamond ring for slice of bread. 

Bartering is like poker playing ... you need to be able to read people. If they want something real bad they'll give more for it. If they don't care that much they'll give very little. You need to learn how to be a salesman. 

The very first step for barter is to have everything you need so that no trade is critical to your existence.

The second step is to have excess of things people will want but can't get anywhere else.

So, prepare, prepare, prepare NOW. Plus, barter is not just trading goods, it's also trading services. 

So:
Do you have barterable skills?
Do you have necessities beyond what you need to survive so you'll have an excess for trade??
Do you have anything that might not be a necessity but will be so desirable that people will want it?
Can you produce things people need or want for a steady "income" after TSHTF?


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

Lots and lots of things will be valuable, but don't forget winter cloths and footwear. Not a bad idea to stick unneeded winter gear in a garbage bag with a moth ball and pop it in the attic.

The ability to offer someone (and his family!) a hot meal and warm cloths in exchange for labor could be a win win for everyone if you're careful.


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## SurvivalNut (Nov 13, 2008)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Barter is like everything else. It's worth whatever people are willing to give. For a man who fears being robbed who has food and a weapon but no ammo? He'd trade a can of corn for a single bullet. A starving person might trade a gold coin or a diamond ring for slice of bread.
> 
> Bartering is like poker playing ... you need to be able to read people. If they want something real bad they'll give more for it. If they don't care that much they'll give very little. You need to learn how to be a salesman.
> 
> ...


*Teetotally agree!* I do intend to distribute up to 12 "get by" kits to neighbors in my area (imagine the LIGHTS OUT cul de sac), each about a week of meager provisions. But after that, it is get with the program, move on or leave me alone. Neighbors who have complained about my rooster, my greenhouse or the "bunch of trees" that is my orchard will have to stand in the back of the line.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Yep, the value will be set at the time of the barter and according to the needs and haves, and the personalities, of the parties involved.

And it will be constantly changing.


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## Littlebit (Apr 20, 2010)

I think small stuff when it comes to Barter.

Lighters
Razer blades
Fish hooks
Fishing line
Sewing needles
Thread
Nylons (Keeps your legs warm in the winter)
Gun oil
Duct Tape (Fix all)
Cigs
seeds
Bandanas (Many uses with a little imagination)
Snare wire
Ibeprophen.

Easy to store and I have this stuff in my BOB in my rig just incase I get stuck away from home. I have other stuff, but thats a secrate. :sssh::ignore:


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

I like the list Littlebit-if you can find some of the on sale cheap fleece blankets- put them on your list- I get them for $1.88 each on Black Friday sales and while some folks only use them for blankets, I have been making my own neck warmers, mittens, hats and have even used them for the middles of quilts when I couldn't afford to pick up quilt batting. they are darn near indestructible. And they keep ya really warm. I have right now about 15 of them tucked away in a Rubbermaid tub for hats and ponchos/robes for the family as holiday gifts.

The neck warmers are a new thing this last year- I always almost hang myself on my scarves and so I googled and searched till I found a blog where the lady made neck warmers from fleece (just a double layer "tube" that you pull over your head like a dicky) and I used her idea and make them with a velcro closure on the back(my mom didn't want to mess her hair up pulling it up and over) and they keep my neck warm and I can pull it up over my nose and not once has it caught on the chicken coop door or anything.. lol


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Saw a guy at the Wyoming camp-out that made a decent sweatshirt out of a fleece blanket. At the neckline he made a "V" down about 5" and had put small grommets and made a lace for it that could be cinched up tight, or loosened to make it easier to pull over the head. Had a hood on it too, with a draw string.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Well this spring the local goodwill had just tons of brand new un-opened sewing patterns for .49cents each and I got quite a few good patterns for fleece, most were for kids (I got them for my grand daughter) but some of them are very simple and can be sized up easily.
I have also use the fleece to make one piece moccasins from a pattern online. they turned out wonderful for slippers and the grand daughter just loved them. And since her little feet are growing so fast the fleece is frugal enuf to make her new ones when ever she needs them..


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## philjam (Dec 17, 2008)

if SHTF then all bets are off. Know your neighbors. People in dire situations either roll over or band together.


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## chaswoody (Mar 15, 2010)

*bartering the useful needs of skills*

i was reading the post, mostly people are talking about trading process goods, what do u do went everything runs out, do u know how to make your own shoes form material, leather working, if you want to barter when all is gone, have skills, that is what people will need, learn stuff now, how to make pottery, leather working, sewing, gun smithing, black smithing, learn about security, military tactics, hunting and fishing, most colleges offer night classes on most things, if not that way use the internet now, if you truly want to survive after this world is gone, you will need to change your way of thinking from the thinking of today, to that of our forefathers when everything was made by hand, and for the people that is still thinking about over pricing all that is barter, here is a point of reality, it is greed that help to get this world like it is, and if you have no skills either like how to protect yourself, all that you have, can be and most likely will be taken from you,form a group with like minded people near you the odds of survival will grow as everyone in your groups gain experience with diffent skills, and remember we will have to pass on these skills to our children, for they will not come from the world that you grow up in


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## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

What will a can of corn be worth? Exactly what you are willing to give for it. If currency is toilet paper then I'll give you $50 per can. If we are both hungry then you wouldn't sell it for $500. 

What it is worth is whatever is like value at the time. I'd say if you had a case of corn and I had a case of beans the exchange rate would be 1:1 and a win:win for variety's sake.

If you a wanderer without food, then a can of corn might be worth working all day in the hot sun, or in famine time with kids to feed, not for sale at any price.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

chaswoody said:


> i was reading the post, mostly people are talking about trading process goods, what do u do went everything runs out, do u know how to make your own shoes form material, leather working, if you want to barter when all is gone, have skills, that is what people will need, learn stuff now, how to make pottery, leather working, sewing, gun smithing, black smithing, learn about security, military tactics, hunting and fishing, most colleges offer night classes on most things, if not that way use the internet now, if you truly want to survive after this world is gone, you will need to change your way of thinking from the thinking of today, to that of our forefathers when everything was made by hand, and for the people that is still thinking about over pricing all that is barter, here is a point of reality, it is greed that help to get this world like it is, and if you have no skills either like how to protect yourself, all that you have, can be and most likely will be taken from you,form a group with like minded people near you the odds of survival will grow as everyone in your groups gain experience with different skills, and remember we will have to pass on these skills to our children, for they will not come from the world that you grow up in


I gotta say you're dead right! I am learning and re-learning all the time things that will be worth bartering for. I can make my own moccasins, and sew my own clothing by hand if need be. I can also point out and harvest many wild edibles that others would just walk by, knowing where the wild berry patches are, and harvesting them would make great barter.
Knowing how to garden without any modern pesticides(I am a natural/organic gardener) and being able to teach this might make my worth go up.
Also knowing how to dry/preserve anything that I harvest will also help towards barter.
Unfortunately I am a bit of a pack rat(not a hoarder yet, but I do worry about having that tv show knock at the door) So I might have more crap to barter with that other would have left over.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

GroovyMike said:


> What will a can of corn be worth? Exactly what you are willing to give for it. If currency is toilet paper then I'll give you $50 per can. If we are both hungry then you wouldn't sell it for $500.
> 
> What it is worth is whatever is like value at the time. I'd say if you had a case of corn and I had a case of beans the exchange rate would be 1:1 and a win:win for variety's sake.
> 
> If you a wanderer without food, then a can of corn might be worth working all day in the hot sun, or in famine time with kids to feed, not for sale at any price.


I just had an awful thought! What good would a can of corn be to someone without an opener!That would suck-- how hard would you have to whack it on a rock to get it open without losing too much to the rock?


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## GroovyMike (Feb 25, 2010)

Emerald said:


> I just had an awful thought! What good would a can of corn be to someone without an opener!That would suck-- how hard would you have to whack it on a rock to get it open without losing too much to the rock?


lol, not to worry there are LOTS of can openers out there and they are shelf stable 

Absent the hand crank ones in a million kitchens and restaurants, there are the camping model old school bladed ones, plus the same on hundreds of thousands of pocket knives - let alone that any strong knife blade will work in a inch.

That is one thing I wouldn't worry about.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

GroovyMike said:


> lol, not to worry there are LOTS of can openers out there and they are shelf stable
> 
> Absent the hand crank ones in a million kitchens and restaurants, there are the camping model old school bladed ones, plus the same on hundreds of thousands of pocket knives - let alone that any strong knife blade will work in a inch.
> 
> That is one thing I wouldn't worry about.


I hate to say this but at boychilds open house a couple weekends ago I, of course forgot the rules of using a knife (never use a knife on something that is not food)and tried to cut a finger off about 1 hour before folks were gonna be there and I had to have some of the relatives give me a hand, and one of my little cousins had no clue how to use a hand held can opener-didn't even know what they looked like! had to show her and walk her thru it. 
I have not only three hand held types but the old military knife with a can opener on it and several of the military key chain little flat ones with the fold out blade that you rock back and forth to open cans.
She just looked at me and asked why the cans didn't have the pop top peel back tabs thingys? hoo boy :scratch I worry about kids these days.


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## goose (Jun 12, 2010)

The value of any item is what that item will bring.

Impossible to say what anything will be worth, as it will depend on needs and supply.

I'm reminded of a passage in "Lucifer's Hammer" in which a fisherman discovers "corn dodgers:"

*Mark fished out corn dodger and passed them around. They had bags of cornmeal with them, and enough of the round cornmeal cakes to feed them while they crossed the water. Enough until Hugo Beck put one in Horrie Jackson's hand.

"Hey!" Horrie cried. He bit it, then stuffed it whole in his mouth and tried to talk around it. "Dried fish just by my foot. Pass it around. It's all yours. I want as much of these things as you can spare, and all for me."

Mark was stunned. "Just what is so extra special about corn dodgers?"

Horrie got his mouth clear. "They ain't fish, that's what!"*

It all depends on what you have, and what you don't have, and what you want and need.

BTW, I consider Lucifer's Hammer one of the three most influential books I've ever read (and I've read a lot of books). It is, in my opinion, one of the premier SHTF books as it deals much more so with the social and political elements of human organization after the crash.


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## jontwork (Apr 6, 2010)

I suggest that you stockpile some quantity of good quality toilet paper.
If you want to cache it, you can put it inside of PVC pipe (depending on roll size) and cap both ends of the pipe. 
You can then bury them in the ground and mark with a GPS and three other methods so you can find them when you need to trade.
AA and AAA batteries will also be in demand. You can bury them the same way. They have a pretty good shelf life of over seven years.


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## TotallyReady (May 20, 2010)

I'm with you, TP, feminine hygiene products and toothpaste. We are all too spoiled to want to live without them. I would also agree that developing skills you can barter with are the real value. Can you cut hair? Are you a HAM who can communicate with others far away and relay messages? Do you have carpentry skills as families move in together or have to build shelters or create ways to keep the hot sun out of their home or the warmth in? Can you cook in a Dutch oven? Learn some skills now.


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## MasterSergeantUSAF (Mar 16, 2010)

neil-v1 said:


> I am curious. If there was a meltdown in the U.S., what would be the barter value of say a can of corn or a 12 oz jar of honey? I am sure everyone has there own ideas and values and I thought I would ask because I want to always make sure I have the right things on hand that would equal what some / most would think are the barter values of certain goods.
> 
> In talking face to face with people and also reading online, I was surprised at how many people think they will just take someone elses goods. That seems like a stupid plan to me.


Knowledge....how to do things....after all the firepower has been expended, those who know how to DO things will be priceless....


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

The skills will let people live after surviving is over, One of my concerns is GOOD foot wear, shoemaking is a pretty lost art, and should be a very barter-able skill, most of the white collar overpayed jobs of todays society will be obsolete


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

neil-v1 said:


> I am curious. If there was a meltdown in the U.S., what would be the barter value of say a can of corn or a 12 oz jar of honey? I am sure everyone has there own ideas and values and I thought I would ask because I want to always make sure I have the right things on hand that would equal what some / most would think are the barter values of certain goods.
> 
> In talking face to face with people and also reading online, I was surprised at how many people think they will just take someone elses goods. That seems like a stupid plan to me.


 store honey if you have a choice, honey will store for a few thousand yrs that we know of, also it has other benifits, medicial and it can be used to make mead wine.

you may get 6-7 yrs out a store bought can of corn or 12 plus yrs out of home canned, either way there isn't many benifits to eating corn.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

lotsoflead said:


> store honey if you have a choice, honey will store for a few thousand yrs that we know of, also it has other benifits, medicial and it can be used to make mead wine.
> 
> you may get 6-7 yrs out a store bought can of corn or 12 plus yrs out of home canned, either way there isn't many benifits to eating corn.


I'd have to disagree with you on that one, lotsoflead. Corn (cornmeal) and venison sustained the pioneers through many a winter and was to a huge extent the staple that made westward expansion possible. Sweet corn has a moderate amount of calories and protein and some other nutrients.

If you had to eat nothing but corn for a month or nothing but honey for a month I'm gonna bet you'd be a much happier camper in the corn camp by the end of the month.

As for storage, I like to think I'm a longterm planner but..........a thousand years? I'm not *that* much of a longterm planner.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

horseman09 said:


> I'd have to disagree with you on that one, lotsoflead. Corn (cornmeal) and venison sustained the pioneers through many a winter and was to a huge extent the staple that made westward expansion possible. Sweet corn has a moderate amount of calories and protein and some other nutrients.
> 
> If you had to eat nothing but corn for a month or nothing but honey for a month I'm gonna bet you'd be a much happier camper in the corn camp by the end of the month.
> 
> As for storage, I like to think I'm a longterm planner but..........a thousand years? I'm not *that* much of a longterm planner.


 If it was a choice between yellow dent corn and honey, i'd have said the yellow dent corn to grind into meal as it can be stored for 20-30 yrs in mylar and oxey absorbers. but when he said a can of corn which has some carbs and a lot of fiber, i just went for the honey.thanks for heads up.


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

Littlebit said:


> I think small stuff when it comes to Barter.
> 
> Lighters
> Razer blades
> ...


Very good selection, I would definitely add TP to that list though. Also batteries (just the most common AA or AAA, maybe re-chargeables with a charger) Simple tarps, plastic sheeting and such. Nails, rope, chain saw chains, simple clothing (you can pick up big bundles of clothing at second-hand stores for change), feminine supplies, soap, pairs of cheap socks, (and sooooo much more, if you can think of it and it is relatively cheap and small, just stock up)

Biggest reason is that for most (likely) emergencies, there will not be much bartering, yet there will be more giving away stuff. (imagine you live in a village not far from a city that gets flooded, there will not be any bartering, but people will still need some stuff...)



chaswoody said:


> i was reading the post, mostly people are talking about trading process goods, what do u do went everything runs out, do u know how to make your own shoes form material, leather working, if you want to barter when all is gone, have skills, that is what people will need, learn stuff now, how to make pottery, leather working, sewing, gun smithing, black smithing, learn about security, military tactics, hunting and fishing, most colleges offer night classes on most things, if not that way use the internet now, if you truly want to survive after this world is gone, you will need to change your way of thinking from the thinking of today, to that of our forefathers when everything was made by hand


Although I agree with the concept of learning skills, even in the days of our forefathers, no one man knew to do all those things. Each person had their trade, and then bartering ensued. I think it is a fantasy for most of us, to believe that we can get good enough in all those things, that we can barter with our finished producst afterwards. I mean, most people if they are a little bit handy, with some basic tools, will be able to patch up a pair of leather boots, or make a rudimentary pot. But as far as being able to ask anyone to pay for those things, most people will not be enough of an expert to make them of a satisfactory quality. Patch-up work, yes, tradeable goods, no.

Just trying to keep it real...

just my 2 cents,

V.


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## Emerald (Jun 14, 2010)

Another thing that I have noticed this summer while yard "sailing" was many of the older solar path lights with dead batteries are being sold super cheap as folks don't want to replace the dual AA batteries and would rather buy the newer ones with only one AAA batteries. I have 10 of them with a few of them having no batteries at the moment as their batteries have gone dead. I was thinking of using them to patch together a small panel to charge my "cell phone" or other small things, but while sitting here looking over the lists that everybody put up that I do use them in a different way.
I have good rechargeable batteries that I use in things all the time and they fit in the older solar path lights and I put a pair in one of the lights and stuck it outside last time we were without power and it charged all day and it ran the small weather/am/fm radio that we have for emergencies(it also has a hand crank for powering once the batteries go dead) all night and most of the next day. I then used another set for the boy's little hand held game to keep him busy. This is an over looked use for the older path lights that folks are getting rid of so now I am planning on picking up more when ever we see them and "re-purposing" them. 
In the event that :shtf: I can also place them up on the roof of the kitchen(which is just outside my bedroom window) to keep them from walking off. They can also just be used as lanterns as I am sure that not many folks are gonna have the emergency candles stocked up or have any other type of light.( not saying us here, we're smarter than that! )


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Good for you, Emerald! It's an exellent use for solar garden lights! They make great night lights for children, too. No fire hazard, and they can be recharged every day!


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