# goat questions



## a_decent_criminal

I'm not exactly a stranger to livestock. I've got a lot of experience with beef cattle (both cow-calf and feeder operations), and we had a hobby flock for 4H. I've worked enough with hogs to know I hate, hate, hate hogs.

But I wonder about goats. I've never been around them, so I don't know their personality. I do know someone who has pet goats (I make fun of her for having livestock as pets...she has lapdogs too), and the videos look charming. They seem to have fun on the trampoline.

So 1) I've heard they are really hard to fence. I can probably deal with that, but could I just let them run loose and browse in the trees? Instead of fencing them in, can I just fence them out of, eg, the garden?

2) Approximately how many goats could I overwinter with an acre of hay? I mean, it's not going to be worth it if I can't do hay with hand tools. I don't want to spend money on machinery for that.

Thanks for responses.


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## mommahen10

As far as fencing if they are fence trained you are good, they will eat everything including your neighbors prize roses, and because they are a prey animal dogs etc will kill them, so I think fencing is a must. My goats eat abt 35 bales of hay per winter each, thats grass hay with a little bit of grain. They mus have some sort of shelter they do not like creeks or ponds or rain, they may drink from a pond if thats all they have. I don't know your climate so I can say how much a acre of hay will support.


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## terri9630

Goats will climb up on a fence and eventually pull down a "less than sturdy" fence. I use horse panels and they have held up well but are expensive. Goats can also jump a short fence. My dairy buck has jumped a 5ft fence to get to a doe.

A 2 strand square bale of alfalfa will last 3 feedings for 8 goats on a dry lot.


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## Starcreek

terri9630 said:


> Goats will climb up on a fence and eventually pull down a "less than sturdy" fence. I use horse panels and they have held up well but are expensive. Goats can also jump a short fence. My dairy buck has jumped a 5ft fence to get to a doe.
> 
> A 2 strand square bale of alfalfa will last 3 feedings for 8 goats on a dry lot.


This is the most accurate advice so far on this thread.

I've had registered dairy goats, off and on, for over 20 years. I've also taken a stab at meat goats a few times. Dairy goats are a little more delicate and require more care than meat goats do, just as dairy cows require more care than beef cattle.

If you have a good fence (hog wire stretched tight), and your goats have companionship (other goats) and plenty to eat and drink, you won't have a lot of trouble keeping them in. But those three things: fencing, more than one goat, and plenty of food, are absolutely essential.

A buck requires a more substantial fence -- stock panels and a little electric wire will do nicely. And as long as he can see the other goats, he will be okay alone.

Except for Kiko meat goats, all breeds require good shelter from the wind and rain. If you live way north, where it gets below zero, even Kikos will need shelter.

If you have a good brushy field -- blackberry briers, poison ivy, thistles, saplings, etc. -- you can browse 2 goats per acre with no supplemental feed.

I would not let your goats free-range unless you are miles from your neighbors and have a couple of Livestock Guardian Dogs to run with them, for protection. Dogs are essential, anyway, if you want to keep your goats alive. They are susceptible to dog packs, coyotes, wolves, and mountain lions. If you have them in a small pasture close to your house with a good fence, a yard dog or two will do, but anything bigger than that you're going to need a Livestock Guardian Dog (LGD) -- Great Pyrenees for coyotes and dogs, Anatolian Shepherd, Kangal, or a pair of Akbash for anything bigger.

And goats are not really partial to grass, nor grass hay. They will eat it, if it's all you've got, but they prefer leafy plants like deer eat. A good orchard grass or lespedeza hay is good; alfalfa if you can afford it.


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## mommahen10

I am sorry by fence training I mean to an electric fence, I have a 5ft woven wire fence with electric at the top and the bottom, I don't at this time have a guard animal but my Aunt who has over a 100 goats keeps llamas as guard animals she has found several bloody smears in her pasture not enough left to really say if was a dog or coyotes. I have Saanens that I bred with a Boer Buck(borrowed),unless I want a replacement doe. I rotate between 2 pastures, I figure on 6 mo of hay feeding and bred for April or May kids.


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## a_decent_criminal

*wow thanks*

Great replies. This is a good site.

"Miles from the neighbors with guardian dogs" was kind of the plan. I was thinking great lakes region, sorry I didn't specify. I mean, all I know about hay is working with the huge round bales.


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## mommahen10

I feed square bales because its easier for us to handle, so 35 per goat per winter.


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## Starcreek

mommahen10 said:


> I feed square bales because its easier for us to handle, so 35 per goat per winter.


I don't use that much. I have 5 LaManchas, and I figure about 1 1/2 bales per week through the winter, but I also feed a coarse 16 percent goat ration as well.


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## Tirediron

you may want to learn the skills needed to put up loose hay, if you plan to do the work by hand, there aren't many old guys left to ask, I never paid enough attention to the details when I was a kid, building a weather resistant stack will take some practice, but you are on the right track.


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## mommahen10

I think you are warmer in the winter, than here I grain if preg and/or milking other wise just a couple of handfuls unless the weather gets really bad then I up the grain a bit, when it goes to -20, they need the extra.


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## Danil54

If you plan on putting up hay for your goats, just please make sure there is no mold when feeding & store it in a dry place. Goats are susceptible to all kinds of health issues if hay has mold. Down south I don't have to give them any but I did have one that got into the neighboring cow pasture. She got ahold of some moldy hay and developed goat polio. We had no clue until we talked to the vet and he told us what it sounded like she had gotten ahold of & yep, there was a big round bale sitting out in the middle of the field. Read about one woman who mistakenly thought her hay had dust on it. . . turned out to be mold. She ended up loosing most of her heard.


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## RedBeard

So we run mini alpine goats. We milk and eat them. They use far less hay than most goats. They stay in easily with 4 foot fences. They are very people friendly and easy to manage. Not sure what we are at niw but back when we had 5 we went through 100 bales for an entire year. We choose this breed because they are an excellent homesteading goat. They do great in our nh winters as well. The meat is great. The milk is the best of any goat milk I've had, you can't even tell its goat milk. We also cut and stack two feilds worth if loose hay. Man its a ton of work.


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## Tirediron

Danil54 said:


> If you plan on putting up hay for your goats, just please make sure there is no mold when feeding & store it in a dry place. Goats are susceptible to all kinds of health issues if hay has mold. Down south I don't have to give them any but I did have one that got into the neighboring cow pasture. She got ahold of some moldy hay and developed goat polio. We had no clue until we talked to the vet and he told us what it sounded like she had gotten ahold of & yep, there was a big round bale sitting out in the middle of the field. Read about one woman who mistakenly thought her hay had dust on it. . . turned out to be mold. She ended up loosing most of her heard.


I guess I best stick to Cattle, fragile animals irritate me.


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## HardCider

We keep our sheep and goats inside 4 ft electric poultry netting with no problems. We also have 2 Great Pyr's running with the herd and poultry flock.


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## Danil54

Tirediron said:


> I guess I best stick to Cattle, fragile animals irritate me.


They are not necessarily fragile, just a little more up keep than cattle that you can just turn lose on pasture. Friend up north didn't worry too much about worms the way we have to down south so it depends on what part of the country you are in too.


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## Starcreek

Tirediron said:


> I guess I best stick to Cattle, fragile animals irritate me.


A big advantage of goats over cattle, for me, is the difference in their "poo".

This is goats:








(You can pick it up with your hand, and it doesn't stink.)

This is cows:


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## RedBeard

Starcreek said:


> A big advantage of goats over cattle, for me, is the difference in their "poo".
> 
> This is goats:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (You can pick it up with your hand, and it doesn't stink.)
> 
> This is cows:


Yes and you can directly apply goat poop to your garden, added bonus.


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## terri9630

They are also easier on the butchering and storing end. I can do a goat quickly alone with a knife and a good set of pruners to cut through the spine where needed. It also takes up less freezer space or less time to can in case of power outages. We usually butcher as needed.


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## RedBeard

terri9630 said:


> They are also easier on the butchering and storing end. I can do a goat quickly alone with a knife and a good set of pruners to cut through the spine where needed. It also takes up less freezer space or less time to can in case of power outages. We usually butcher as needed.


That's really the best part. Just like a deer! I call deer dirty rotten forest goats. I love venison and goat meat!


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## LastOutlaw

This is the best part... damned cute and sweet. His name is Cappuccino. 100% registered Boer. The second one is named Boo. Born on Halloween commercial Boer.


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## Meerkat

LastOutlaw said:


> This is the best part... damned cute and sweet. His name is Cappuccino. 100% registered Boer.
> View attachment 21553
> View attachment 21554
> View attachment 21554


OMGosh! so cute I love baby goats. I had oen as a kid. Named her Nita. She followed me everywhere.


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## Meerkat

LastOutlaw said:


> Second one is Boo. Born Halloween. Commercial Boer.


 Thats my birthday! I was born while they were trick a treating at 2 am Nov.1st.


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## terri9630

LastOutlaw said:


> This is the best part... damned cute and sweet. His name is Cappuccino. 100% registered Boer. The second one is named Boo. Born on Halloween commercial Boer.
> View attachment 21553
> View attachment 21554


He's adorable!


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## Meerkat

Tirediron said:


> you may want to learn the skills needed to put up loose hay, if you plan to do the work by hand, there aren't many old guys left to ask, I never paid enough attention to the details when I was a kid, building a weather resistant stack will take some practice, but you are on the right track.


That is something I wouldn't want to tackle.


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## Danil54

LastOutlaw said:


> This is the best part... damned cute and sweet. His name is Cappuccino. 100% registered Boer. The second one is named Boo. Born on Halloween commercial Boer.
> View attachment 21553
> View attachment 21554


Beautiful!


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## Starcreek

Beautiful babies, LastOutlaw! You are raising some nice animals.


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## LastOutlaw

Starcreek said:


> Beautiful babies, LastOutlaw! You are raising some nice animals.


Thank you! We have been working toward breeding dappled or moonspotted Boers or dapple headed Boers for the last year and a half or two years. While we realize that the judges at ABGA events are more likely to awards the traditional Boer coloring of white bodied with red heads we know that the trend is changing as people love more color and dapples. This is slowly changing what the judges are awarding to as more people enter dappled headed and/or moonspotted Boers in competition. While we are not showing our goats at this point yet we are trying to breed high quality, show worthy goats. This year all of our babies were either moonspotted all over their bodies like the two I posted or dapple headed traditional looking Boers. We are banking on the trend to continue towards dapples in ABGA competition. We also are breeding high quality ADGA registered Nigerian Dwarf milk goats as well as Myotonic (fainting) goats. Here is one of the dapple headed Boers on her birthday.


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## RedBeard

I love nigerian milk! The best taste in my opinion. I enjoy people like yourself who change the norm because the possibility's are endless with animals. Beautiful boars you have there!


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## Meerkat

RedBeard said:


> I love nigerian milk! The best taste in my opinion. I enjoy people like yourself who change the norm because the possibility's are endless with animals. Beautiful boars you have there!


You can have the milk,but I just love those little babies. 
I think if our kids could had more time with caring for and raising these kids and other animals they would be alot more sane today and less drug abuse to cop out. I feel so bad for this new generation of kids.


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## bbqjoe

Do they eat as much hay if you supplement their diet with tin cans?


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## LastOutlaw

bbqjoe said:


> Do they eat as much hay if you supplement their diet with tin cans?


BBQjoe, your comment brings up a very good point. The idea that goats can eat anything is a fallacy. The fact that goats can eat just about anything and will try to, they can also die from it as well. They have a system in their stomach that is a balanced rumen system. When it gets out of balance a goat will die fairly quickly if not remedied right away. They are fairly easily sickened by quick changes to their diets. Any feed changes we do here are done gradually. Simple indigestion like you would get can kill a goat in a matter of hours. They do however love to eat brush and while they do not graze like cattle they do like to browse. They will in fact clean out a brushy fence line very quickly and enjoy it very much. You still have to go back and cut all the sticks and such that is left behind after they eat all the leaves off.


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## RedBeard

Meerkat said:


> You can have the milk,but I just love those little babies.
> I think if our kids could had more time with caring for and raising these kids and other animals they would be alot more sane today and less drug abuse to cop out. I feel so bad for this new generation of kids.


Really? Nigerian milk taste just like cows milk with a tiny bit of sweetness. And unlike cows milk can start to digest in our system in as little as 20 mins compared to cows milk witch can take hours.


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## RedBeard

LastOutlaw said:


> BBQjoe, your comment brings up a very good point. The idea that goats can eat anything is a fallacy. The fact that goats can eat just about anything and will try to, they can also die from it as well. They have a system in their stomach that is a balanced rumen system. When it gets out of balance a goat will die fairly quickly if not remedied right away. They are fairly easily sickened by quick changes to their diets. Any feed changes we do here are done gradually. Simple indigestion like you would get can kill a goat in a matter of hours. They do however love to eat brush and while they do not graze like cattle they do like to browse. They will in fact clean out a brushy fence line very quickly and enjoy it very much. You still have to go back and cut all the sticks and such that is left behind after they eat all the leaves off.


We hear the goats will eat anything comment all the time, always makes me laugh.


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## LastOutlaw

RedBeard said:


> Really? Nigerian milk taste just like cows milk with a tiny bit of sweetness. And unlike cows milk can start to digest in our system in as little as 20 mins compared to cows milk witch can take hours.


 I wish you were close. We have a registered Nigerian Dwarf buck that has some awesome lines we have been trying to sell for awhile. He has Tx Twincreeks WDF Sarafina in his lines and she won a championship and beat out over 40 other goats in a national competition. Her lines are sought after by those who know who she is. We asked $200 for him but he really is worth over $400 we are buck heavy and just dont need him.


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## RedBeard

LastOutlaw said:


> I wish you were close. We have a registered Nigerian Dwarf buck that has some awesome lines we have been trying to sell for awhile. He has Tx Twincreeks WDF Sarafina in his lines and she won a championship and beat out over 40 other goats in a national competition. Her lines are sought after by those who know who she is. We asked $200 for him but he really is worth over $400 we are buck heavy and just dont need him.


Oh man! That would be sweet if we were closer. We would totally buy him. Nigerians are very popular around here, most want them for pets and brush clearing and don't even realize how good the milk is.


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## LastOutlaw

RedBeard said:


> Oh man! That would be sweet if we were closer. We would totally buy him. Nigerians are very popular around here, most want them for pets and brush clearing and don't even realize how good the milk is.


Here are his genetics:
http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001810295


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## RedBeard

LastOutlaw said:


> Here are his genetics:
> http://www.adgagenetics.org/GoatDetail.aspx?RegNumber=D001810295
> View attachment 21559


I love his name!! He is very good looking!! Even has some Rosasharn in there, wow i really wish we were closer!


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## Starcreek

Nice pedigree. Sarafina has great linear appraisal scores!


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## terri9630

RedBeard said:


> Really? Nigerian milk taste just like cows milk with a tiny bit of sweetness. And unlike cows milk can start to digest in our system in as little as 20 mins compared to cows milk witch can take hours.


It's not the breed. It's the feed and management. I've had milk from several breeds and had both good and bad. We feed alfalfa and sweet feed and our LA Manchas milk is sweet and delicious.


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## RedBeard

I agree. But i do think there are differences in taste of milk between the breeds. Our Nigerians eat and live with our mini alpines. I do love the mini alpine milk but the Nigerian is higher in butter fat and i like it the best. It is a very small difference but it is there. I do agree though, everyone who has told me they have tried goats milk and didn't like it, once talked into trying mine are surprised they like it. Then i explain that the what the goats eat can make it good or bad. Like if a cow eats an onion patch, that will be some nasty milk.


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## terri9630

RedBeard said:


> I agree. But i do think there are differences in taste of milk between the breeds. Our Nigerians eat and live with our mini alpines. I do love the mini alpine milk but the Nigerian is higher in butter fat and i like it the best. It is a very small difference but it is there. I do agree though, everyone who has told me they have tried goats milk and didn't like it, once talked into trying mine are surprised they like it. Then i explain that the what the goats eat can make it good or bad. Like if a cow eats an onion patch, that will be some nasty milk.


I agree with the butter fat /cream bit. "Butter" makes everything better.


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## RedBeard

terri9630 said:


> I agree with the butter fat /cream bit. "Butter" makes everything better.


Just wanted to add that taste is all in our heads and what taste like chicken to me might taste like chips to you. So it's very possible that the difference or lack of difference in the taste between the breeds is totally just in our heads. Taste is a personal experience.


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## terri9630

RedBeard said:


> Just wanted to add that taste is all in our heads and what taste like chicken to me might taste like chips to you. So it's very possible that the difference or lack of difference in the taste between the breeds is totally just in our heads. Taste is a personal experience.


Yep. My sister won't eat any of our home grown food. Meat, eggs or veggies. When she eats over she brings her own ingredients. I switch them out every chance I get and she has never noticed.


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## Starcreek

According to the American Dairy Goat Association, Nubians (on average) had the highest butterfat of any of the dairy breeds until they accepted Nigerian Dwarfs as a dairy breed a few years ago. Now the NDs have the highest butterfat. The amount of butterfat determines the "sweetness" of the milk. I've had a Nubian and 2 Lamanchas that had milk that smelled like ice cream.


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