# Guns and prepping



## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I did try a search, but search don't always work so great,

I have seen an few threads mention that they have a gun or guns,

I was just wondering , how big a part of prepping, for whatever , economy collapse or natural disaster, plays in your preparing .

I have a few guns, for a few reasons,
not counting a daily self defense .

But I'm asking about, after or during, a major SHTF event.

*For? Hunting, Bartering, Defense, Selling etc, etc.?*

Just curious as to your thinking about the guns, and ammo, you would include in prepping.

Shotguns, rifles, handguns ??

Jim


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

phideaux said:


> I was just wondering , how big a part of prepping, for whatever , economy collapse or natural disaster, plays in your preparing .
> 
> I have a few guns, for a few reasons,
> not counting a daily self defense .
> ...


All three - for all these reasons.

Hunting: Our BOL is near a state forest that's open for hunting during season - we hunt there every year.

Defense: Wife and I each have a handguns that are strictly for self-defense purposes. Our medium-caliber rifles can also be used for that.

Barter/Trade: We do have enough ammo that if it came down to it, we could use some of it as 'currency'.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

My only gun that I bought due to a prepping angle is a Ruger Mini-14. Somewhat on the order of an AR15 but with a more standard stock that feels more comfortable to me.
I have hunting guns and defense guns and I have a muzzle loader. 
For a prepper with no guns this would be my advice AFTER they took a firearms safety course- - - 
a 22 rifle (this will be the most important gun)
a small to medium handgun of their choice (strictly for hidden self defense and constant wear)
a bigger rifle of about thirty caliber for big game hunting and long range defense/offense
I would not get guns for selling/trading/bartering


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I think guns are a necessity for preppers. My question relative to guns though is what would you buy for your first gun, second gun and maybe third gun. My guess is that some of you have more than a dozen, but some of us do not.

The former police officer from my home town who "accidently" shot his wife while she was laying asleep in bed, with his Glock, had more than 40 guns. He won't ever touch them again, because he will be spending the rest of his life behind bars.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Weapons are nothing but tools. Like all tools, some are designed to complete a particular task while others work well for another. You can't fix a car with one flat head screwdriver. I would sit down and think about what kind of tasks you believe you will encounter and research the firearms that will best accomplish those tasks. Hunting? Small game hunting? Self defense? Will you need to be quiet? Etc. Then ask what type of environment do you live in. Urban? Rural open spaces with distance shooting requirements? I put a heavy emphasis on ammo availability and price. Everyone has different needs and comfort levels. The best survival firearm is the one you know how to use and maintain that you have a lot of ammo for and suits the tasks you will have to accomplish in your environment. Please keep in mind a weapon is something you have to practice enough with for all your movements to become muscle memory. I'm glad to see you going down this line of thought. If you have any questions and would like to give us some background on what you envision your needs will be post shtf there is a lot of knowledge on here and I'm sure we would be more than happy to help you figure out what will work for you and how to get the training and safety knowledge to be effective.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

By the way this thread will probably be moved to the gun thread which is member only so pop the $20 to become a member.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I made the decision decades ago to standardize on ammo sizes and then only have firearms that match that caliber. My decision was based on what will be easier to find after TEOTWAWKI happens. 12 gauge, .22, .223, and 9MM. I'm concidering adding .308 to that list.

The .22 is the survival round for small game. The 12 gauge, .223, and 9MM are all defensive rounds. The .308 would be an offensive round for long rage and penetration.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I will keep this short, despite of the fact that I could turn this into 10 paragraphs. 

Firearms are a large part of my everyday life and will continue to be if we ever fall victim to a TEOTWAWKI situation. I use firearms for work, protection, competition, recreation, hunting, instruction, trade, etc., etc., etc. I have more firearms, ammunition, magazines, parts, accessories, armorer kits, and tools than most small gun shops. But I also have skills, and not just shooting skills. I have a lengthy resume of firearms instruction and armorer schools. I can make a first time shooter competent, a good shooter better, teach tactics, diagnose and repair malfunctioning firearms, install/replace parts, etc. 

The only adjustments I made when becoming a "prepper" was to somewhat consolidate calibers and to reduce the diversity of my collection so as to have multiples of the same firearms I consider to be my go-to guns in a SHTF event. I might have subconsciously increased my ammo stores, but it's hard to tell as you can barely even get into that room.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

weedygarden said:


> I think guns are a necessity for preppers. My question relative to guns though is what would you buy for your first gun, second gun and maybe third gun. My guess is that some of you have more than a dozen, but some of us do not.


The wife and I each have six guns - so a dozen total

Small-caliber rifle - we each have a .22 for small-game hunting.
Medium-caliber rifle - pair of Henry Big Boys in .357mag - I have the carbine, she's got the regular (longer barrel)
Shotgun - Matched pair of Stevens 1200 semi-auto
Small-caliber pistol - we carry those when grouse/pheasant hunting in case we see rabbits. Both Rugers, a Mark II Target for me, a Mark III Target for her.
Medium-Caliber pistol - we both have compact .380 semi-autos. Great for CC
Larger pistol - I've a Ruger GP-100 in .357, she's got a Coonan Classic .357mag semi-auto.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> I think guns are a necessity for preppers. My question relative to guns though is what would you buy for your first gun, second gun and maybe third gun. My guess is that some of you have more than a dozen, but some of us do not.
> 
> The former police officer from my home town who "accidently" shot his wife while she was laying asleep in bed, with his Glock, had more than 40 guns. He won't ever touch them again, because he will be spending the rest of his life behind bars.


I had over a dozen guns when I was 10 years old. 

I think most would agree that a basic 3 gun arsenal is comprised of a rifle, handgun, and shotgun. What you want depends on skill level, purpose, budget, and availability in your area. For me it would be an AR-15, Sig P320, and a Remington 870. For the next person a lever action 30-30, a S&W Model 10, and a double barrel 12 ga might be perfect. What gun to buy is highly subjective.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

I built my collection around calibers that share the same characteristics. I've been reloading for years and this has allowed me to tailor my reloading supplies to cover many calibers with a fewer components. I have 1 powder that I use for all of our pistols, rifles I have a couple of powders that fit the bill for them as well. Like crackbottom said weapons are tools and each fits a specific need, some can perform multiple jobs. 

I have the tools for quietly taking animals at close range out to stopping larger potential threats at much longer range. I'd start with what your long term goals will be and start asking questions with those in mind.

I would never consider bartering a weapon. Having the ability to reload ammo though makes that a very viable form of currency.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

It's like said above, firearms are simply tools. Are they an important tool for a prepper to have, yes, but with limitations. If you don't know how to use any tool properly, it is at best not as effective and at the worst danged near useless.

A lot of us grew up with and used firearms, or use them as part of our job or to compete in various shooting disciplines. They aren't wonder tools like hollywood leads the general public to believe. If you have firearms, and don't know how to properly and effectively use them, you need to train. Even a lot of us who have many years experience and prior training still train, think of it as continuing education.

I've been reloading since the late 70's and that to me is more important prep wise than having a huge arsenal. Over the years, I have consolidated the calibers that we use and can store a lot of the components for what we need to reload. Once someone has the basic firearms I'd suggest looking hard at getting started reloading. For the price of one low end pistol or rifle, you can have the means to keep them shooting.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> I think guns are a necessity for preppers. My question relative to guns though is what would you buy for your first gun, second gun and maybe third gun. My guess is that some of you have more than a dozen, but some of us do not.
> 
> The former police officer from my home town who "accidently" shot his wife while she was laying asleep in bed, with his Glock, had more than 40 guns. He won't ever touch them again, because he will be spending the rest of his life behind bars.


First let me say that whether you have 4, 40, or 400 guns you can only shoot one at a time. The number of guns a person owns is a red herring.

If I could only own one gun it would probably be a 12Ga pump. The different ammo available for a shotgun make it a very versatile gun. I would not recommend a 12Ga for a first gun or one to learn on.

For a first gun I would recommend a .22 rifle. The low recoil will make it easy on a new shooter and generations have learned on this type of gun. If you buy a semi-auto like a Ruger 10-22 it would be a good start to a prepper collection. While there is still a shortage of .22 it is available and manufacturers are increasing capacity.

For a handgun I recommend a mid to full size 9MM. The 9MM has adequate power and except for .22 is the least expensive. This allows you to practice more. The heavier the gun the less recoil. A full size gun would be great for home defense and a mid size for home or concealed carry. The recoil on a small pistol makes it a poor choice for a beginner. I was working with an older woman that had been sold a small pistol, after all a woman wants a small cute gun. The recoil spring was too strong and she couldn't cycle the action. I let her try my Glock 17, a full size. She did very well with my full size and her son's Glock 19, a mid size. Pick a gun that fits your hand.

Next a long gun. Probably a rifle in .308 followed by a 12Ga. Get competent with one then move to the next. As Sentry said, this is all subjective. There are many good guns and good calibers. I have selected the above for price and availability and started with the least recoil and moved up. Don't worry about the price of the gun, you only buy that once. Ammo is another matter, you will buy ammo for the rest of your life. Enjoy.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

While I agree with most of your post, I disagree about your red herring comment. 

If you own one gun and there are two unarmed people with you, having 3 guns would have been a much better plan. Having a sidearm in my holster and a back up gun in my pocket for when/if my rifle runs dry or malfunctions, is a much better than just having one gun in my hands. I have more guns than a person needs, but the guns I have dedicated for survival are all multi-gun batteries for each member of my family and the expectation of several other trusted persons (family & friends) joining my group. Plus spares of each (rifles & handguns). Two is one, one is none, but 4-5 dozen sounds about right to me.


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

Self defense can certainly be a meaningful part of any survival system. That being said, I am not really inclined to believe that "combat" is likely to be the primary contributor to those threats I face during a crisis event in the USA. Although I do not consider combat to be a primary concern, it is not unreasonable to have a plan in place to mitigate criminal violence. To that end I do have a handgun and 2 extra mags set aside as a prep item in my mobile kit. At home I always have a shotgun at the ready for home defense but would probably not go carrying a long gun around during a crisis unless the absolute worst has happened. If on the move, my basic weapons set is comprised of a concealed handgun, 2 extra mags , a fixed blade knife and a 4.5 foot walking stick. Light, agile and unassuming.

My list of crisis related concerns are very basic :

Personal injury ( non combat)
Climate ( heat or cold exposure)
Dehydration
combat
disease
starvation

I think it is smart of be able to effectively defend yourself from criminal violence but at the same time, I do consider things like water, first aid and shelter to likely be more important. Guns can play a part of your system but I think it is important to understand the balance and to keep things in proper perspective.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Sentry18 said:


> While I agree with most of your post, I disagree about your red herring comment.
> 
> If you own one gun and there are two unarmed people with you, having 3 guns would have been a much better plan. Having a sidearm in my holster and a back up gun in my pocket for when/if my rifle runs dry or malfunctions, is a much better than just having one gun in my hands. I have more guns than a person needs, but the guns I have dedicated for survival are all multi-gun batteries for each member of my family and the expectation of several other trusted persons (family & friends) joining my group. Plus spares of each (rifles & handguns). Two is one, one is none, but 4-5 dozen sounds about right to me.


Having more than one gun per person isn't just a good idea. Jams due to cycle error, damage from a variety of things during a fire-fight, or needing to switch - a rifle for long range isn't as good when the opponent is almost in your face.

Our personal lower-limit is 3 - one long-gun and two hand-guns - per person. More if you can carry them. Make sure you have at least 2 loaded magazines/speed loaders per weapon; and in our case, easily accessible rounds for the lever-action.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Sentry, by "red herring" I mean something that is not pertinent to the issue and something that is misleading. In this case, having 40 guns does not make the man more or less guilty. To the jury members and to the general public that does not own a gun this may be used to make the suspect appear more violent. In reality the number of guns he owned doesn't matter. This guy was found guilty of shooting his wife. If he had run her over would they talk about how may cars he had?

Like you I pack more than one gun and for the same reasons. For me a gun is part of getting dressed. I pack around the home because there are 8,000 home invasions every day in the US. I have more firearms than I could possibly need but I keep a bib near my computer so I don't drool all over myself when you talk about your guns.

I have had training from Tiger, Massad, and others but I would love to take a class from you.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I have multiple guns in the same caliber. This way I can keep all firearms loaded until the last round is fired. There have been several survival articles written that specify having several guns of the same caliber, manufacturer, and models. The theory is that all firearms will be firing till the end, this eliminates having 5 guns and only having 2 that have ammo. Also, having the same exact guns means that if one fails, it can be used for parts for the remaining weapons.

"Two is one and one is none".


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

On the whole 2 is 1 and 1 is none idiom. The intent is to foster a mindset of redundancy of critical systems. It does not mean that 1 gun or one car or one aircraft or one radio- dooms you to fail. It simply means that if an items is critical to the success of the mission, its a good idea to have a backup method to do the same thing. 3 ways to make fire and things like that. It is not to be taken literally... its an idiom.

Sure I have an extra bolt carrier and extra magazines for my rifle. I have those things because its prudent... carrying 2 rifles, not so much. I do not really subscribe to the notion of arming other people during a crisis who would otherwise be unarmed. Those people are likely ill prepared and ill trained, otherwise they would have their own firearm. 

If you want to have a backup gun.. have at it. I can relate to the possibility that things do break at the most inopportune time. If the suggestion is that I need more weapons than what one man can carry at any given time... I politely disagree. I would rather have extra water vs extra firearms. That's just me.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

In my eyes for a prepper I think guns for food procurement would be a priority. Those guns like any gun could still be used for defense/offense though would likely not be a best choice for that role. 
I don't care for shotguns and would never include them in any desirability list though most do so. I find shotguns heavy awkward guns that hold a very limited amount of bulky ammo. YMMY
I think a 22 rifle has many prepper friendly qualities. The guns are very light and usually quite compact. They are quiet (compared to other calibers). The ammo is very small and light so a lot can be carried if desired. Many people find they can shoot 22 rifles more accurately than other guns (likely due to the lack of recoil and muzzle blast). Up to about 100 yards the 22 is accurate and deadly. Perfect for small game and in a SHTF situation would be excellent for potting ducks and other birds that are now shot with a shotgun.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Wikkador said:


> On the whole 2 is 1 and 1 is none idiom. The intent is to foster a mindset of redundancy of critical systems. It does not mean that 1 gun or one car or one aircraft or one radio- dooms you to fail. It simply means that if an items is critical to the success of the mission, its a good idea to have a backup method to do the same thing. 3 ways to make fire and things like that. It is not to be taken literally... its an idiom.
> 
> Sure I have an extra bolt carrier and extra magazines for my rifle. I have those things because its prudent... carrying 2 rifles, not so much. I do not really subscribe to the notion of arming other people during a crisis who would otherwise be unarmed. Those people are likely ill prepared and ill trained, otherwise they would have their own firearm.
> 
> If you want to have a backup gun.. have at it. I can relate to the possibility that things do break at the most inopportune time. If the suggestion is that I need more weapons than what one man can carry at any given time... I politely disagree. I would rather have extra water vs extra firearms. That's just me.


I think we will have to agree to disagree, I want redundancy in all things possible. Especially those things that could be the difference between life and death, retaining my supplies or losing them, etc., etc.

It does not take advanced tactical training to give someone a rifle, tell them to point it "that way" and pull the trigger while a group intent on killing you (and them) is advancing. Better to die on your feet with a rifle in your untrained hands than trying to explain to the assailants that it was only an idiom. Of course it sounds like in your scenario you are roaming the countryside with a backpack.


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

30 years ago when I was in my 20's, over a period of months, I trekked all around Europe living out of and under a rucksack. I know a little bit about what it takes to get by with only what you can carry. Carrying 2 of everything is simply not practical, ive been there.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Wikkador said:


> 30 years ago when I was in my 20's, over a period of months, I trekked all around Europe living out of and under a rucksack. I know a little bit about what it takes to get by with only what you can carry. Carrying 2 of everything is simply not practical, ive been there.


This is not about what you can carry all at once.

For some or most of us there are no plans to BO. We are already at our BOL. Also, when I think about life after SHTF, I'm thinking about 6 months later, 12 months later and years later.


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

Tweto said:


> This is not about what you can carry all at once.


 I didn't see that mentioned in post #1

mobility is generally an element common to all crisis mitigation plans. No matter how much you may want to stay where you are, circumstances may demand that you leave.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

That's when I pull this out of mothballs.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Wikkador said:


> I didn't see that mentioned in post #1
> 
> mobility is generally an element common to all crisis mitigation plans. No matter how much you may want to stay where you are, circumstances may demand that you leave.


My belief is that the firearms I have will help keep me in my home. While I can appreciate your reasoning it does not fit my situation. If I am forced to leave with what I can carry I am a dead man. Without a pack I couldn't get very far. With a pack I would fair far worse. The only hope I have is to make my place too costly or to move my assets to a better location before I am attacked.

While your much younger body gives you options that I don't have being a nomad is not something I have ever considered as viable in the long run. I accept your plan as best for you but my plan works better for me.


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

Caribou said:


> My belief is that the firearms I have will help keep me in my home. While I can appreciate your reasoning it does not fit my situation. If I am forced to leave with what I can carry I am a dead man. Without a pack I couldn't get very far. With a pack I would fair far worse. The only hope I have is to make my place too costly or to move my assets to a better location before I am attacked.
> 
> While your much younger body gives you options that I don't have being a nomad is not something I have ever considered as viable in the long run. I accept your plan as best for you but my plan works better for me.


That sounds fair and reasonable


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

And ammo weighs a lot.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Wikkador said:


> 30 years ago when I was in my 20's, over a period of months, I trekked all around Europe living out of and under a rucksack. I know a little bit about what it takes to get by with only what you can carry. Carrying 2 of everything is simply not practical, ive been there.


Our lever-actions are identical except for barrel length, our .380 CC guns are identical. The only place this falls flat is our .357 mags.

The wife and I HAVE tested our bug-out plan multiple times with three weapons and a WAG amount of ammo. Water filtration and purification - plenty of sources along primary, secondary and tertiary routes. We both grew up in the general area and learned as kids/teens what to forage for when.

We keep the food and water down for those reasons, which means more ammo can be carried. We've both been very conscientious about maintaining our physical abilities and our 40# packs hinder us very little.

It's all about what you can do, and that determines your weapon/ammo loadout.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

AmishHeart said:


> And ammo weighs a lot.


Hence the old Dodge armored truck. Hauls guns and ammo safely and securely.

Although my ammo is already stored at 3 different locations to reduce having to haul it all. But even then the appliance cart is always at the ready.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

OutInTheWoods said:


> We've both been very conscientious about maintaining our physical abilities and our 40# packs hinder us very little.


My full SWAT loadout (which I still have and train with but never get to use anymore) weighs 36-38lbs. Once it is on it feels like nothing at all. My bug out kit, which has some SWAT gear elements, runs closer to 75-80lbs and feature 4 guns in all (although one is a small .380). But then again I am not a little guy and like you, I am in good shape.

I don't really expect to bug out on foot, but plan for the contingency just the same. We also have 3 large all-terrain 3 wheel strollers to put gear (and small humans) into.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Sentry18 said:


> My full SWAT loadout (which I still have and train with but never get to use anymore) weighs 36-38lbs. Once it is on it feels like nothing at all. My bug out kit, which has some SWAT gear elements, runs closer to 75-80lbs and feature 4 guns in all (although one is a small .380). But then again I am not a little guy and like you, I am in good shape.
> 
> I don't really expect to bug out on foot, but plan for the contingency just the same. We also have 3 large all-terrain 3 wheel strollers to put gear (and small humans) into.


That's why the multiple tests of the BO plan. Ranging from getting all the way there in my truck to having to bike/hoof it the entire way. The bike-packs are another 35#-40#, but contain secondary (nice) things for the trip - we can ditch those if we have to.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Plenty feedback ,input , info you guys and gals put out .

I'm kinda like Caribou.. I aint about to go anywhere, bug out, or relocate.
I'm too old, and have a really weak heart, bad back, and...other health issues. I can do things , but nothing too strenuous.

I have no choice but to stay put.
I can go out on the back side of the farm and take a deer any time.
Turkey and rabbit anytime.
Fish out of a well stocked pond.
I have a network of friends , neighbors, and family that are on the same page, and will come together if need be.

I have a significant shelter for almost anything Nature may offer.

I been shooting and reloading for over 60 years.

I read about how important ammo was used as a currency in Bosnia, so that's what I was referring to for bartering. I cant think of any scenario where I would barter a weapon.

Spent my 2 years with 3rd Armored Calvary Regiment 1966-1968.

I have a few guns, for target shooting enjoyment mostly , but also for hunting, and defending my home and myself.

I have had my CCW for so long ,I don't even remember when I got it first.
I like every thing I read from you folks, it always gives me food for thought to get different ideas.

*Thanks for the input.

* Hope there is more.
I always enjoy learning .

Jim


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

While having multiples of the same gun and caliber seems to be the popular choice personally I tend to go the other route. While I do have a few of each caliber that I carry I like to diversify also. The way I see it is when the time comes that I run out of ammo the more calibers I have the more likely it is that I will find someone with useable ammo I can trade for. What happens if you got 5-9mm's and 5-.22's but the lonely traveler you meet wants to trade .40 rounds for that can of soup? So the more calibers I can get my hands on the more diversified I feel like I am. Just my opinion on the subject. Also in the realm of weapons never forget some good knives and things like a crossbow.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm all for firearms too but I do think some take it too far, not saying if you want one don't get it, but why are you getting it compared too other places the money can go. 

Almost everyone says they are going to hunt to survive, bs. There won't be a deer standing in a month. I am in the middle of nowhere, TN and Ky had to be restocked after the depression for white tail. Obviously they came from somewhere (Texas for TN), point is there won't be much big game, maybe opossum and things like that.

Any body stocking up to take on the military is delusional, in the Marine Corps our way of knocking on a door was an anti tank rocket through the wall if possible to avoid the funnel of the doorway.

Most combat loads are between 100 and 180 rounds for 5.56. Why that few you might ask 1st it's heavy and secondly you ain't that good, odds are you have been hit if it takes that long. Most fire fights only last a few seconds. If you are up against anybody armed and win, unless they ran out of ammo now you got more guns and ammo. Chances of living through firing 40,000 rounds, slim to none unless you are being invaded by pumpkins.

Don't get me wrong I believe in redundancy, common calibers, and having "plenty" of ammo but many people take plenty too far, too far as in its a waist of money that could be spent more efficiently.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Now before I'm accused of being anti gun, first off my plan is staying put in the defense, if I went left in a vehicle I would be heavier but either stationary, horse or foot I plan on five firearms on me. Two primary .45's a pocket .45 long colt derringer (for being disarmed and hoping it isn't found) an AR or AK and a 12 guage.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

sgtusmc98 said:


> Any body stocking up to take on the military is delusional...


That's what the Queen said about those pesky people in the Colonies. 

I am just kidding, the Queen did not have weaponized UAV's and M1 Assault Breacher Tanks.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

millertimedoneright said:


> . Also in the realm of weapons never forget some good knives and things like a crossbow.


You are correct.

My Tucker Custom Buffalo Knife








My , lightning fast Buck 110 conversion.








My PSE Fang crossbow, deadly accurate at 40 yards.








Hope yall don't mind pics, I love looking at pics.

Jim


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Sentry18 said:


> That's what the Queen said about those pesky people in the Colonies.
> 
> I am just kidding, the Queen did not have weaponized UAV's and M1 Assault Breacher Tanks.


Would that bee Queen George III you're talking about?:wave:


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Sentry18 said:


> That's what the Queen said about those pesky people in the Colonies.
> 
> I am just kidding, the Queen did not have weaponized UAV's and M1 Assault Breacher Tanks.


The fear factor does have a high level of value! I do believe that was part of the reason for the 2nd!


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*The ultimate survival gun*

The ultimate survival gun proven to put more game on the table, repel more home invaders while being the easiest to clean repair and provide ammo for is a single or double barrel 12 gage shot gun.

Ask any old time Appalachian back woods red neck .

You can kill rabbits, squirrels, birds, deer, bear, moose or men.

You can load your own ammo and it will function with black powder or modern factory ammo.

It will shoot slugs or anything down to birdshot or gravel.

If you expect that squirrel , rabbit or bird to run or fly, you better leave the .22 at home.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Then here it is, the perfect prepper gun if you can only have one. Chiappa X-caliber 12ga/22lr. Plus you can get adapters for the 12ga barrel for everything from .223 to .308 and pistol calibers too.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

It was JW,R that inspired my preparedness journey. All I will say is that I have used his book, How to Survive TEOTWAWKI, as a framework for preps. So of course, I include "beans, bullets and band-aids" and more in my inventory.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

I'd much rather have this... Savage 24J .22 over 20 ga.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

How about the new and much lighter weight version? Only you drop from 20ga to 410.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Any of them would work...

But I want to be stylish when the end of the world comes, lol. Plastic would clash with my English gentleman's shooting jacket!


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Balls004 said:


> Any of them would work...
> 
> But I want to be stylish when the end of the world comes, lol. Plastic would clash with my English gentleman's shooting jacket!


By jove it appears society is collapsing. I believe I shall place a loaded shell into my marauder dispatching device and fill my pipe with a sweet tobacco.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

There are members here who will be more qualified than me on the subject of weapons but a well place shot with a co2 pellet gun will hurt a lot or even a ball bearing and a slingshot,I`m not a full time pepper nor a doomsday preacher I just like to be ready for whatever mother nature brings my way in the way of a normal hurricane or in case of someone knocking down the power pole down the street. I love to do carpentry or mechanics or plumbing so I have lots of tools for the simple repairs at home and the same goes for my weapons and ammo, no high power rifles mounted with an AN/PVS-4, those days are over with, nor a fancy Kimber 1911 or a fully loaded AR with all kinds of Picatinny rail for all the toys, with what I have I can hunt and protect my domain and that is the focal point of the story ,no need to over spend base on what the many Ramboon look a likes said, just become efficient with the tools you have ,period.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

readytogo said:


> There are members here who will be more qualified than me on the subject of weapons but a well place shot with a co2 pellet gun will hurt a lot or even a ball bearing and a slingshot,I`m not a full time pepper nor a doomsday preacher I just like to be ready for whatever mother nature brings my way in the way of a normal hurricane or in case of someone knocking down the power pole down the street. I love to do carpentry or mechanics or plumbing so I have lots of tools for the simple repairs at home and the same goes for my weapons and ammo, no high power rifles mounted with an AN/PVS-4, those days are over with, nor a fancy Kimber 1911 or a fully loaded AR with all kinds of Picatinny rail for all the toys, with what I have I can hunt and protect my domain and that is the focal point of the story ,no need to over spend base on what the many Ramboon look a likes said, just become efficient with the tools you have ,period.


This great video does a good job of showing the effectiveness of a pellet gun in a bad situation.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Only pellet gun I ever hunted with was an old Blue Streak. Love to find one at a decent price now.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Don't underestimate a powerful, accurate and quiet Break Barrel Air Rifle.
2 of these were, 1 shot, 1 kill, at 47 and 49 yards.










Jim


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I need to get an air rifle, or pistol. I actually want a crosman 1877 I believe. I've been debating between.177 and .22. I had a .177 years ago. I want it for putting down raccoons or things of similar size that are in traps. The .22 would probably be better but I like the bb/pellet option with the .177 and the ability to reuse bbs if necessary.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I do actually have a friends Red Ryder, sights aren't that good though, kinda gotta just lob the rounds in there.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Anyone wants to rely on an air rifle for self defense go ahead. Small game hunting sure but I wouldn't trust my life to it in a bad situation.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

CrackbottomLouis said:


> Anyone wants to rely on an air rifle for self defense go ahead. Small game hunting sure but I wouldn't trust my life to it in a bad situation.


The air rifle would be for quiet hunting of rabbit and squirrel in a SHTF situation - or general hunting otherwise.

I CC ( with permit) a .380 semi-auto loaded with JHP, if we're bugging out in a SHTF situation, add a .357Mag to that.

I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Sentry18 said:


> By jove it appears society is collapsing. I believe I shall place a loaded shell into my marauder dispatching device and fill my pipe with a sweet tobacco.


See, you got it! That's exactly what I was talking about. :woohoo::woohoo:

BTW, where'd you get my picture from? You weren't dipping into the databases, were you? :lolsmash:


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> The air rifle would be for quiet hunting of rabbit and squirrel in a SHTF situation


I have shot many old and modern air rifles. I have yet to find a powerful one that is quiet. 
I CB round out of my 28" target .22 is quieter than any of the better air rifles that I have shot.
I admit I have never shot one of the new 'Nitro piston' I think they are called. The longer barrel on my target rifle quiets all rounds shot through it at least to some extent. Plus I like to burn powder


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

Be careful with that red ryder, you"ll put your eye out.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

hiwall said:


> I have shot many old and modern air rifles. I have yet to find a powerful one that is quiet.


I shoot heavy grain pellets , up to 20 gr, in my .177 Hatsan air rifle, they chrony below 1100fps, therefore staying subsonic, and are very quiet.

I shoot heavy gr pellets up to 30 gr, in my Ruger .22 Magnum air rifle, those heavy pellets chrony below 1100 fps also, and stay very quiet.

If you shoot light pellets that exceed 1100 fps you break the sound barrier and lose accuracy . I try to keep all mine around 900 to 1000 fps.

I shoot turtles on my pond with either rifle and don't scare them,  that way I just keep picking them off. Ive tried .22s and it scares them away
.
Now I admit , I haven't tried a 28 inch barrel, but that makes a lot of sense on being very quiet,

Them turtles could save my life some day....

Jim


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

I was referring to the self defense application ready to go mentioned mainly. Pellet guns are great for small game hunting. I like the pump models and you can carry a ton of ammo for the things. Great to have but not sure it would make the cut for an on foot bug out. Just not versatile enough. An accurate 22 pistol with a can is far more useful imo and has a spot in the bob.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

phideaux, where do you get the heavy pellets?

This thread points out how specific guns are as tools. The pellet rifle that is good for turtles and other small game but probably too small for bugging out on foot. The .308 that is great for self defense and hunting but probably too heavy, except for the most fit, in a bug out on foot. So many really good points and different perspectives.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I'm not even considering bugging bout...it just aint in my plans.
I have worked/planned for many years to stay put.

So, the air rifle is just one more tool in my plans.

I buy some from Pyramid Air 
http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Ammo/109/pw_grain2

But also from Amazon and Walmart.

I can tell you that every Air rifle has a different taste for which pellet it likes and shoots best...kinda like guns. Shapes and weights.

Jim


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## Wikkador (Oct 22, 2014)

how good would you feel if the captain of a ship said.. "we don't need lifeboats, its aint in our plan to sink".


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Wikkador said:


> how good would you feel if the captain of a ship said.. "we don't need lifeboats, its aint in our plan to sink".


Bugging out is not in my plans either. Given adequate time I could load up my vehicles but walking out is just not an option. Remember, no battle plan survives the first engagement. With that knowledge my plan is to bug-in.

Ultimately everybody plan is to bug-in. Either you bug-in at your current location or you bug-in when you reach your BOL. The only other option is to be a nomad.

I do love your analogy. The rule on lifeboats is, you never leave the ship until the ship leaves you.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Wikkador said:


> how good would you feel if the captain of a ship said.. "we don't need lifeboats, its aint in our plan to sink".


I know it's all about perspective, for me if I bug out I'm going to the city because everyone has come here. For me to get to a lower population density either I go to the Atlantic or drive/walk 2/3 s of the way across the country, hopefully every one will go to the Ozarks! Somebody said that was the place to be and I agree!

I do have a bug out location in the city in case the house gets destroyed but that's more for my wife, I'd have to stay here anyway probably, lived in a tent for six months before, wasn't so bad.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I couldn't bug out. No way to carry all the guns and ammo!


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

My bug out location is me loading my guns, ammo, supplies, and family on my atvs and heading into the 29,000 acres of swamp/national forest land that borders the local lake and basically starting a colony in there. If it gets bad enough to leave that's where the 20 or so locals would all head. If it gets really really bad I could always head to my parents old farm about 7-8 miles away. Other than that my plan is to stay put.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

Wikkador said:


> how good would you feel if the captain of a ship said.. "we don't need lifeboats, its aint in our plan to sink".


 I guess I'm one of them crazy people that will go down with the ship..

Aint got the back, or heart (2 heart attacks) to leave and re-establish.

Been gathering stuff and people to long,

Jim


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

phideaux said:


> I guess I'm one of them crazy people that will go down with the ship..
> 
> Aint got the back, or heart (2 heart attacks) to leave and re-establish.
> 
> ...


 Jim, Same here. Our plan is to stay put as long as we can. We do have a remote "bug-out" plan - but I doubt we will ever use it. Instead, we've been working to build up resources and capabilities in our neighborhood.


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## JoshSelf (Jul 13, 2015)

The only thing I'll add that I've thought about:
I do like the idea of standardizing calibers in some forms, but I like having my large collection of firearms in varying calibers incase I find ammo that isn't usual or as common.
There are also break action shotgun adapters to adapt to smaller calibers. 
With this it does mean more training with varying firearms, yet in the end you have options.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Logistically wise all situations are not the same in the same page there hasn't been a fortress that hasn't been breach yet and no amount of weapons is going to keep a mad max scenario from happening or taking your home or property, in the 1980`s Miami riots Liberty City was burn while the police and national guards watch it all from a distance ,nothing less than an army could have stop the mobs from doing their evil, I was here.The more supplies you have the more rotation you will have to do the more inventory the more repairs or upkeeps ,etc.,so keeping a few weapons in my opinion is best and reloading ,like stated here already ,even better, so keeping spared parts for the weapons ,
very few people I know have the necessary spared parts for them, also a .22 conversion kit for the AR would be a good idea, double duty weapon.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

While our primary plan is to stay at home we do have bug-out plans. Our biggest danger here is forest fires. We have a camper made from a U-Haul truck that's stocked and ready to go. We actually camp in it so we know it's ready to go on a moment's notice. Our most important things are in it but we also have stuff stored in a root cellar that should be fireproof. We also have a camper van conversion we'd take. That gives us plenty of options for living well until we can get back home. Then we'll have our stored stuff back and will just have to put together a permanent shelter before winter (although we have a wood burning stove in our camper which we also insulated well).

I recommend that everyone has a viable bugout plan that they've tested themselves. Even in the woods you may have a chemical truck, train wreck or a dozen other possibilities that forces you to evacuate for at least a short time.

Regarding firearms: We would rather have fewer guns and more ammo than a lot of guns with hopes that we can get more ammo later. We also stick to commonly available calibers (especially 223, 30/06, 308, 30/30, 12 gauge, etc.).


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

phideaux said:


> I guess I'm one of them crazy people that will go down with the ship..
> 
> Aint got the back, or heart (2 heart attacks) to leave and re-establish.
> 
> ...


I think you are making the best with what you have.
Hope you got/get all you need before the fall.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

crabapple said:


> I think you are making the best with what you have.
> Hope you got/get all you need before the fall.


Thanks , we are in pretty good shape , as far as being ready...even planned for a few "creature comforts" .

Doing the best, with what I have...yeah... 
If you seen my Medical history you wouldn't believe it, 
example: 2015 was the first year in past 8 years , that I didn't spend significant time in a hospital, that will probably change before 2016 is over.

I keep it documented ..
It takes a whole page , single line, small print.

But I'm just glad Im as able as I am, 
and I am thankful for each morning when I wake up.

I treat each day as my last , cuz it may very well be.

Jim


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I have the opposite problem as many people. My brother recently passed away and I have to sell his large gun collection. Lots of interesting guns but most are not suitable for prep items as they are mostly very old. Still finding them but have over a hundred so far.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hiwall said:


> I have the opposite problem as many people. My brother recently passed away and I have to sell his large gun collection. Lots of interesting guns but most are not suitable for prep items as they are mostly very old. Still finding them but have over a hundred so far.


Hiwall, you might want to date some of these old guns. Anything with a receiver manufactured prior to 1899 is not a firearm and can be legally shipped between States without going through an FFL. They sometimes will garner premium prices due to their special legal status.

Ammo is often available though it may take some searching. Re-bareling or re-chambering are also options. You can also get caliber adapters for them. For example, I have an adaptor for my 30-06 so I can fire .308's in it. Age has little to do with the functionality of a gun.

If you brother had a lot of guns he probably had a bunch of ammo and empty brass. In the rare calibers the brass can go for a few bucks each. I stumbled across a few rounds that I acquired when I bought an estate that go for thirteen dollars each. Having rare ammo for an antique gun is a really nice package. You will probably find ammo and brass for guns that are not in your collection.

If I can be of assistance PM me.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

That's good advice , and don't forget if its Black Powder , it can ship about anywhere without declaring firearm or using an FFL.

Id love to see some pics of some of them and hope that you can keep us posted about them.


Jim


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

We worked a little today. Found two cape guns (double barrel rifle/shotgun combo 9.3x76R & 16 Gauge), one double rifle (577/500 caliber), two- three barrel drillings (16 gauge and ? caliber), a Henry rifle (reproduction), and three Remington rolling blocks.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

hiwall said:


> I have the opposite problem as many people. My brother recently passed away and I have to sell his large gun collection. Lots of interesting guns but most are not suitable for prep items as they are mostly very old. Still finding them but have over a hundred so far.


Hiwall, valley people send their condolences. We also wish you the best as the estate executor, been there, done that, not any fun.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Here are a couple of pics from a few of the guns.


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

OMG ! Beautiful.

Those are awesome.




Jim


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

Hey Hi Ho....Good to see you!


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Fantastic*



hiwall said:


> Here are a couple of pics from a few of the guns.


These are absolute treasures ! I can not imagine you ever parting with them !


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

BillM said:


> These are absolute treasures ! I can not imagine you ever parting with them !


I have looked at all the guns and thought about them a lot. I have not found any that I want. 
There is a quite rare Marlin combination gun (rifle/shotgun) that I am slightly considering (though I really don't know why because I have owned several similar Savages in the past and sold them all).


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Have you*



hiwall said:


> I have looked at all the guns and thought about them a lot. I have not found any that I want.
> There is a quite rare Marlin combination gun (rifle/shotgun) that I am slightly considering (though I really don't know why because I have owned several similar Savages in the past and sold them all).


Have you priced them to collectors?


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

MY niece and I are working on a list to see if any big dealers might offer us a fair price on the job lot.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I would love to own such amazing pieces of work. Those are unique to say the least.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Much of what he collected was the the odd or unusual.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

My Uncle was a gun collector. When he passed we had no idea how many guns he had and of what rarity. Needless to say the quality and quantity of my collection grew after the reading of his will. My favorite antique pieces that I inherited are an 1874 Sharps Heavy Barrel Buffalo Rifle and Martini-Henry MKII Artillery Carbine. The best of the modern pieces included a matching dark blued Colt Python & Colt Diamondback. I received 16-17 guns in all after they were divided by myself and 13-14 other heirs. And I barted for less guns total to get the Colts. One of my cousins got around 30 guns in all. I also got a mint condition original Hitler Youth knife with scabbard and a very good condition Nazi SS Dagger. He loved guns, but he also loved WWII.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

We have a pair of pump action Mossberg Bantam youth-sized 20 gauge shotguns along with shot and slugs. I like shotguns for home defense and possible hunting. Youth-sized makes them easier to use for my wife and I think a smaller shotgun is more maneuverable in a home setting.

After doing some online research I decided that pistols are difficult to hold steady and put multiple accurate shots into a home invader. The other problem is that an invader could still kill you with a few pistol shots in him. My shotguns hold 5 shells. I think a shotgun works better for being able to hold the gun steady, put multiple shots into a home invader and dropping the perp before they can hurt me. 

We have no other guns. I have no plans to trade guns or ammo in any kind of barter situation.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*You are correct*



BillS said:


> We have a pair of pump action Mossberg Bantam youth-sized 20 gauge shotguns along with shot and slugs. I like shotguns for home defense and possible hunting. Youth-sized makes them easier to use for my wife and I think a smaller shotgun is more maneuverable in a home setting.
> 
> After doing some online research I decided that pistols are difficult to hold steady and put multiple accurate shots into a home invader. The other problem is that an invader could still kill you with a few pistol shots in him. My shotguns hold 5 shells. I think a shotgun works better for being able to hold the gun steady, put multiple shots into a home invader and dropping the perp before they can hurt me.
> 
> We have no other guns. I have no plans to trade guns or ammo in any kind of barter situation.


If we thought we were going to encounter a violator who was armed with a handgun, we took a shotgun.

If we thought there was a chance he would be armed with a long gun, we took a rifle .

You always want to be better armed than your assailant when it is possible or foreseeable .


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

BillS said:


> We have a pair of pump action Mossberg Bantam youth-sized 20 gauge shotguns along with shot and slugs. I like shotguns for home defense and possible hunting. Youth-sized makes them easier to use for my wife and I think a smaller shotgun is more maneuverable in a home setting.
> 
> After doing some online research I decided that pistols are difficult to hold steady and put multiple accurate shots into a home invader. The other problem is that an invader could still kill you with a few pistol shots in him. My shotguns hold 5 shells. I think a shotgun works better for being able to hold the gun steady, put multiple shots into a home invader and dropping the perp before they can hurt me.
> 
> We have no other guns. I have no plans to trade guns or ammo in any kind of barter situation.


As in with most weapons it's all in what you feel comfortable using. Some prefer pistols and some shotguns for home defense. Personally I use my pistol but the shotgun is laying there for my wife in case they get by me. The more you use your weapon of choice the more comfortable you will be with it.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

BillS said:


> We have a pair of pump action Mossberg Bantam youth-sized 20 gauge shotguns along with shot and slugs. I like shotguns for home defense and possible hunting. Youth-sized makes them easier to use for my wife and I think a smaller shotgun is more maneuverable in a home setting.
> 
> After doing some online research I decided that pistols are difficult to hold steady and put multiple accurate shots into a home invader. The other problem is that an invader could still kill you with a few pistol shots in him. My shotguns hold 5 shells. I think a shotgun works better for being able to hold the gun steady, put multiple shots into a home invader and dropping the perp before they can hurt me.
> 
> We have no other guns. I have no plans to trade guns or ammo in any kind of barter situation.


While a shotgun is not my choice it is a common one for many people and is likely the correct choice for you. That is why they make so many different kinds of guns.


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## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

Hello again. 
Been away for a while. 
I'm back. 

Read all 10 pages of this thread, and thought I might be able to contribute something. Let me know, OK? 

It appears that everyone pretty much agrees that a gun is a tool or a weapon, depending on its use. Kinda like a smart phone, or a Swiss Army knife. So over the years I've tried to figure what would be the most versatile combo for me, in my circumstance(s). 

Found a Savage 24D, in .22 LR over 20 Gauge and S&W Model 19 in a second-hand shop. Good shape, good price. With that setup, we can make use of a whole lot of common ammo, and (hopefully) take down pretty much all of the game or varmints in our area. Not many fiddly little bits to lose or break there, either. Manuals of Arms are pretty simple, too. So, good to go. 

Ah, but what about teh Zombiez, you ask. 
This is where it gets good. 

FOR US, IN OUR CIRCUMSTANCE(S), guns are a last resort. 
Instead, we have what is called an Onion-Skin defensive posture. 
Layers upon layers. 
(Ref: Massad Ayoob, "The Truth About Self Defense")
Location, neighborhood watch, lights, fences, dogs, signs, alarms, decoys and distractions, cameras, obstacles, locks, and some other things, which are most definitely not useful for anything other than academic study. 

The guns we carry on the farm are for dealing with pop-up threats and getting us back to our most advantageous places, where, also thanks to author Joe Nobody, in his book "Holding Your Ground", we have pre-positioned defensive options and supplies. Basically, ways to keep their heads down and tangled in the wire until we can pop smoke. Something else to pay attention to besides their original plan. If they still don't get the idea after all that, well, I guess they were really bound and determined to harm us, officer. Left us with no choice but to defend ourselves while we waited for you to get here. 

So, in my long-winded way, what I'm trying to say is that a person doesn't necessarily have to feel under-gunned if they can't afford an AR and a backup AK for each and every one in the whole family, as long as you take the time and put in the effort to make the most of what you're already good with. Be nice to have, but...

Cheers, Y'all


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

phideaux said:


> I did try a search, but search don't always work so great,
> 
> I have seen an few threads mention that they have a gun or guns,
> 
> ...


If you are aprepper more likely than not after a catastrophe you will be one of the haves.
The have-nots are sure to be nearby.

You dont need a big firearms collection but as a minimum one versatile tactical rifle.
remember you are not looking to hunt large game.

So a decent AR15 or similar with ample ammunition supplies (couple cases plus) and being well trained in its use is a must on the preppers list.
Military pattern rifles are the most versatile firearms in the world which is why they are in wide issue among the .mil
Would it be nice to add a 9mm carbine a handgun a shot gun etc etcc? sure..., But if you can afford only 1 gun make it a modern tactical rifle like an AR15.

Then you cna slowly add to that later as you see fit or can afford...knowing you have the basics covered now.

Just dont go crazy like some preppers where collecting tons of firearms is their main prepping activity..


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

As I started building my weapons preps, the plan was AR type rifle first, then a pistol, then a shotgun and then a hunting rifle and so on. With ammo, I built up what I planned to be my basic supply for each weapon before I started looking for the next step in my prep.


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