# Discussion making dilemna



## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

First let me apologize now for any typos, I am posting from my phone. As many of you know I work an hour from my place of employment. I have come to the realization that I may have to walk home if shtf. However, on the way to work this morning I started thinking I will not be the only person on the road and many people may need first aid assistance. One question is, should I stop and help or just ignore them and keep walking. I do not think I have the moral capacity to just walk away. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

If the world were to loose empathy we will all die. Follow your moral compass but protect yourself first in all circumstances. You can not help others if you are injured or killed.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

A SHTF situation is going to bring a lot of hard decisions. If, by dallying (even when doing something inherently "good" like first aid or rescue) you will put your family at risk then you should get home the fastest way possible.

I've seen a lot of families destroyed by people who let their family suffer while they try to save the world. 

I get a little riled at people who put their family's welfare behind the needs of others ... especially if the others are perfect strangers. You have a responsibility to care for your own. If you arent' then you've shifted that responsibility to someone else.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

If you are a trained EMT, nurse, doctor or someone who is medically-trained (not just a very basic RedCross-course) and you do not help, and it is found-out that you didn't help when you could have, you could be raked over the coals.

If you are just an average person who knows how to kiss a boo-boo on a knee or elbow, keep walkin' ... there might still be a knee or elbow to kiss better.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

iceeyes said:


> First let me apologize now for any typos, I am posting from my phone. As many of you know I work an hour from my place of employment. I have come to the realization that I may have to walk home if shtf. However, on the way to work this morning I started thinking I will not be the only person on the road and many people may need first aid assistance. One question is, should I stop and help or just ignore them and keep walking. I do not think I have the moral capacity to just walk away. Any advice will be appreciated. Thanks


The hardest thing in the world to do is to emotionally detach and analyze things. Frankly, I can't do it completely. There's always that component. Sitting here behind a keyboard, it's easy to postulate and profess. In a crisis, however, things get a little more complicated.

I suppose it all comes down to the law of competing harms. It's a bit like being on an airplane when the cabin pressure drops and the oxygen masks come down. A parents first reaction would be to put the mask on their child, but this urge *must* be overcome. It serves the child no good if the parent passes out from lack of oxygen before securing the childs safety. One must *FIRST* secure one's own safety and health in order to provide for another.

Having said that, I'm also a believer in "what goes around, comes around". One should not be heartless. In your case, I suppose it depends on the risk of not getting home to access your necessities, compared to the risk of not helping someone out. I do believe that we, as humans, are obligated to help each other as much as we can *without* causing injury to ourselves. (This philosophy is one of _*individual*_ obligation, and *NOT* one of government imposition!)

Only you will be able to make the appropriate determination when the time comes. My only _"advice"_ would be to remember that one must survive long enough if they want to help anyone else. Beyond that, I can only offer my own philosophy of existence. First and foremost, _* cause no harm or hardship to an innocent, nor allow it, if in your power to prevent it.*_


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

I think Mosquitoman's post above hit the nail on the head.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I agree with MMM. Your family is your first priority. And as for a trained first responder failing to render aid, WHO is going to be there to "rake you over the coals"? In a SHTF scenario, I guarantee you that all bets are off. It will be every man for himself including EMS supervisors.


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## Trip286 (Oct 18, 2012)

Just keep walking. You're obligated to no one but the woman you swore a vow to and the children that never asked to be born. Hard? Yes. But life is never really easy.


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## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

Trip286 said:


> Just keep walking. You're obligated to no one but the woman you swore a vow to and the children that never asked to be born. Hard? Yes. But life is never really easy.


Well...first I'm female so that would a man that I swore a vow too...lol and I'm not married and have no children. However, I do see ur point was and thanks for advice.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I also agree with MM. And, keep a very good pair of broken-in hiking boots in your car at all times along with a couple of pair of good (hiking) socks. This is in addition to the bugout backpack you keep in your car (right?)

ETA: I'm sure you've done the math so you know you're around 10 hours away from the house if you can keep up a brisk walk. If your goal is to get home as quickly as possible, your window is in that very first part of the event. It's going to be one of those moral decisions that only you can make. As for me - I want to be home.


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## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

Country Living said:


> I also agree with MM. And, keep a very good pair of broken-in hiking boots in your car at all times along with a couple of pair of good (hiking) socks. This is in addition to the bugout backpack you keep in your car (right?)


I do have a bob and just repacked it and added some things to it. I also have extra water in the car at all times.


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## Trip286 (Oct 18, 2012)

iceeyes said:


> Well...first I'm female so that would a man that I swore a vow too...lol and I'm not married and have no children. However, I do see ur point was and thanks for advice.


Lol, oh well. I can rephrase that as "blood is thicker than water"!


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## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

Trip286 said:


> Lol, oh well. I can rephrase that as "blood is thicker than water"!


 sounds good!!


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Iceeyes, you might also see about setting up a half-way house with a friend or co-worker who lives between you and work. That way you don't have to make the whole distance in one trip and depending on the circumstances, you might need to lay low or something.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

It is great to think ahead and ponder possibilities but it is very likely that you will be at home when SHTF unless it is a very sudden catastrophe.


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## GrinnanBarrett (Aug 31, 2012)

The timing of everything is going to change how you respond. During the first hours of a crisis the bad guys start to loot but are pretty much disorganized. Give those with bad intentions time and they will use your good will against you. 

One of the guys in our group has worked out deals with other people from the area where he works to pool their resources to get to their general home area. Strength in numbers can be a real asset if you all are armed.

Helping others along the way opens you up to a lot of ambush dangers. Limit your help but don't lose your humanity. GB


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

iceeyes, I find myself in a similar position, but different in some ways. I had not even considered the remote possibility of encountering someone who may need my help, as I would be hiking through remote/rural areas where people are scarce (if my vehicle is disabled when TSHTF). Although I have more than enough first aid supplies than I need for myself, it's also to aid my family when/if I can reunite with them, as a back-up in case some of their gear is destroyed, lost or left behind in the heat of the moment (not all of our eggs in one basket).

I have recently come to the conclusion that if I can't make it, all the extra supplies I tried to carry just won't matter in the least bit. So, it's me, myself and I that I need to be thinking about if the situation arises...I'll just have to deal with whatever is left when/if I make it...improvise as best I can with what there is available at that time. But, until I get home, I have only one person to deal with...me...and until there's more than me, I take care of only me, because it could be much more than a long day's hike on my boots to make it...think a 100 miles or more through rough terrain from nearly any direction, not paved roads or streets...dirt, brush, rocks, steep inclines and anything that mother nature can hurl my way. I could be almost anywhere within a 100 mile radius of home when TSHTF, so there's no possible way I can know exactly what I may encounter along the way, or preplanned routes to follow...anything can happen, so being able to adapt is key .

Anyway, like I said, my situation is a bit different, but in many ways the same. If forced to walk out, especially alone, for me, there's no safe haven to settle in for the night where I know people on the route home...I'm 100% on my own...searching for water sources, taking opportunities to procure food when it presents itself, finding shelter locations for the night, cold camp when needed for concealment...sometimes with nothing more than a mummy sleeping bag, small blanket and poly tarp to snuggle up with out in the open with sub-zero winter temps with wind, and at times, no fire (fuel for fires being scarce here as it is)...brrr!!! In summer, possibly hiking at night to avoid the heat of the day, while still finding water sources and food. Not my idea of a good time, and definitely not looking forward to it...looking forward *in* preparing for it? Yes. Point being I will be plenty busy just trying to stay alive and make any appreciable progress towards home...I can't afford to take much time out of my day to worry about someone else at that point in time...it could easily cost me my life, and if I don't make it, my family will be struggling that much more.

Good luck!

Oh, if you're wondering where I'm really coming from with all this, here's a bit more of my story/possible predicament, which I'm hoping never happens:

http://www.preparedsociety.com/foru...strategy-rural-commuting-transportation-9606/

Trust me, I'd rather be walking through a remote area vs a populated area post-SHTF _*any*_ day...then, it's only mother nature and myself that need to get along, and I understand her pretty well. Metro/suburban areas? Count me out...people will get desperate in a very short time if things are bad enough...desperate people do desperate things, often becoming violent to get what they want/need. Best rule of thumb is, if you don't know them, you shouldn't trust them, and if you don't trust them, you should be far away from them...you shouldn't even be there...it's your life at risk.


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## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

I want to thank everyone for their advice. I have a lot to think abt because I will be in a large town/small city, how ever you want to describe it. As of right now I will be alone also. I have abt three different ways home. Sooo...now it's just being as prepared as I can and hope and pray for the best. Thanks again everyone.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I'm trying to imagne what kind of scenario would place that many wounded injured people on the road between your work and home. Id think maybe laying low a while before moving out in such circumstances might be better and then when whatever is cuasing all these mysterious injuries has passed then you can start moving home at a reasonable rate. And the top priority should be to get home sand secure you and yours most ricky tick this sounds like it must have been bad saving anything you have may DEPEND on you getting home to take care of it. 

Now that said I"m not walking past someone who is stuck ina burning car or trapped under a car or some such. But My helping them wouldn't be me buying on to take long term care nor would it be prudent to squander all of my very limited med supplies. Get them out lever the car off of them Use their clothes car parts.first aid kit to stabilize them as much as possible make sure they are visible should anyone who can really help them will find them. then keep on trucing maybe make a not of who they are and what injuries to pass on should you encounter fucntioning EMS. I talking 15 or 20 min tops make it your break from walking then get back to hoofing it. And watch out for stobor or whatever is causing the injuries so you don't become a casualty.


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## iceeyes (Jun 25, 2012)

I would be traveling on a major hwy and I am thinking car accidents etc. for example, if it is an EMP ( this is just one scenario) the cars that stop, that are "killed" are not going to stop moving just because they stopped running. And I realize that this may be an over the top example but trying to think of worst case scenarios and I figure it would actually be worse than I can imagine.
Sorry abt typos.....


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> If you are a trained EMT, nurse, doctor or someone who is medically-trained (not just a very basic RedCross-course) and you do not help, and it is found-out that you didn't help when you could have, you could be raked over the coals.


Nope. We're under no obligation, moral or legal, to stop & help. We are trained to work in certain senerios with certain equipment, not to McGyver our way through a situation. Rendering aide on the side of the road without that equipment is practicing outside of our training & people have been sued for it. The simple act of stopping at a wreck puts you in danger, no one is required to put themselves in danger. People who choose to put themselves in harm's way to help a complete stranger are going above & beyond what they are morally or legally obligated to do.

Sorry, there's been a lot of talk locally about this here lately. A man who stopped to help at a wreck got killed, leaving a wife & a 4 month old baby. Regardless of what my training & skills are, I am not obligated to risk my life, & the life of whoever is in the car with me, to help you. I'm not obligated to risk getting HIV, Hep B, or whatever disease you have. I'm not obligated to risk some ungrateful bastard suing me, regardless of who wins, I still have to pay the lawyer. No one is entitled to the time, energy, & talents of anyone else, period. People who choose to help are heroes going above & beyond the call of duty & should be regarded as such.


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