# Surviving a Terrorist Attack or Mass Shooting



## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Some things to remember if unfortunately you are in this type of scenario.

1. Know the Source of the Danger. Know where the threat is, and where it's coming from.

2. Find the exit. Think about where you sit in a restaurant, theater or in a large building.

3. Arm yourself, not only with guns but other weapons of opportunity.

4. Move quickly, have a plan as to how you will move as soon as you walk into the building.

5. Use cover and concealment. Do you know the difference? Concealment shields you from the attacker's view, but cover will stop bullets.

6. Don't submit to the shooters demands, have a plan to react, but don't give in.

A lot more I discussed on my recent podcast episode, but these are some things to think about, especially with the threats we face today.

Primary Source: https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-survive-a-shooting-massacre-or-terrorist-attack-in-a-city


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

You didn't say anything about shooting the SOB's in the first place. That sort of stop things in their tracks, doesn't it? Shoot them in the head, and then you don't have to worry about a vest, ballistic or explosive.

If you can't do that, then train until you can. If your primary carry is a 5 shot revolver, you might want to rethink what you are carrying. You might also want to look at having a small blowout kit on your person.

They aren't going to go away until we make them go away. It's time to be warriors again folks, not civilians.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> If your primary carry is a 5 shot revolver, you might want to rethink what you are carrying.


But I really like my model 37!


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

The first thing I do in any public place is ID the exits, then the threat axis. I ask my hostess to seat me where I can see the room and be near an exit. While I'd be happy to try and save as many as I can, my family (usually why I'm in public) gets first dibs. So I get them out, then I can decide if I'm going to go back and shoot the SOB


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

When I hear gunfire here at night and it sounds close, I turn out the lights. One thing I learned a long time ago is that just because you can't see someone doesn't mean that they can't see you. It allows me to peek out the window and see what's going on without them being able to see me. It also reduces the likelihood that they would identify me as a potential witness if they don't see any lights and assume that most or all of the people in the area are asleep when it happens. If the shooting continues then I go into the kitchen where I have a few layers of walls between the rooms from there to the outside just in case a stray bullet flies this way.

I just wanted to add that if you are in a crowded place and someone starts shooting, the natural tendency for people would be to run. At that moment it would be complete chaos but if you are able to identify the source of the shooting then it might be worth considering to try to stay low as you exit the area. In other words, crouch or crawl if you can move quickly enough and it might keep you below the line of fire.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Balls004 said:


> ..Shoot them in the head, and then you don't have to worry about a vest, ballistic or explosive....


Sometimes they use a dead-man switch. When a depressed activation button is released (either on purpose or by being shot or tackled or)...BOOM!


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

TheLazyL said:


> Sometimes they use a dead-man switch. When a depressed activation button is released (either on purpose or by being shot or tackled or)...BOOM!


While it is possible that a dead man switch is used in an IEB or IEV, they typically are not for obvious reasons. Premature detonation tends to ruin the plan. It's also difficult to manage a dead man switch when manipulating a weapon, so they are pretty rare if firearms are involved.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If they do have a dead man switch then they obviously fully plan on using it. Shoot 'em.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

hiwall said:


> If they do have a dead man switch then they obviously fully plan on using it. Shoot 'em.


I agree that it would be best to upset their game plan. Hard part would be, do you shoot and blow him up while he's standing beside the children or wait until he's away from the children and closer to the parents?


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

TheLazyL said:


> I agree that it would be best to upset their game plan. Hard part would be, do you shoot and blow him up while he's standing beside the children or wait until he's away from the children and closer to the parents?


It would be a hard decision. What's the best decision, leaving the 2 children near him to possibly be blown up or shot in a few minutes or saving the dozen people running away currently being shot at? I think I'd have to take that shot if I could.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

TheLazyL said:


> I agree that it would be best to upset their game plan. Hard part would be, do you shoot and blow him up while he's standing beside the children or wait until he's away from the children and closer to the parents?


The current thinking I'm seeing from a tactical standpoint is to shoot them in the face, side or back of the head. Preferably from ambush and cover. That does two important things. First, since dead man initiators are rarely used, shutting down the central nervous system greatly reduces the opportunity for the bad guy to activate a bomb to begin with. Think of the Istanbul Airport attack and the one terrorist who was ambushed by the police but managed to blow himself up.

The second problem is that TATP seems to be the explosive of choice, particularly where military or commercial compounds are harder to get. It is made from easily obtained materials and relatively unstable, to the point that it is likely that it might be set off from a bullet strike to a vest or belt.

Third, if the BG is wearing any sort of body armor, it bypasses that problem too. Think about the Police Officer who shot the guy wearing the body armor and was then shot. Don't crowd your cover, you lose quite a bit of situational awareness when you do. It's still cover even if you are several feet away from it.

One other note on head shots, if you are lower than the person you're shooting at, it does help with reducing the chance that a miss will hit a bystander (if anyone is foolish enough to stick around that is).

There isn't going to be a one size fits all solution to the problem, but having some idea of how terrorists operate at least gives us some options on how best to deal with the threat. Until their tactics and equipment change, I'm going for the head shot. I know that most, if not all of us will ever actually have to face this situation, but that's what all the other victims thought too.
This is just our new reality.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

The net is full of experts but is impossible to predict the mind of someone set on doing harm, especially for political or religious reasons .Someone walks into a theater with a explosive belt or like the in Boston a simple back pack pressure cooker and surrounded by a large police force or even in the McDonalds in Germany with it especially train police force and even after the truck attack in Nice, it took only seconds to killed. So it doesn’t matter how many times you go to the range or how go of a shot you are, anyone with the intention to kill, will kill period .The truck driver did it without firing a shot.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

readytogo said:


> The net is full of experts but is impossible to predict the mind of someone set on doing harm, especially for political or religious reasons .Someone walks into a theater with a explosive belt or like the in Boston a simple back pack pressure cooker and surrounded by a large police force or even in the McDonalds in Germany with it especially train police force and even after the truck attack in Nice, it took only seconds to killed. So it doesn't matter how many times you go to the range or how go of a shot you are, anyone with the intention to kill, will kill period .The truck driver did it without firing a shot.


Yes, the net is full of experts. Some have real world experience and credentials and some don't. It's a reader beware situation.

Are you saying the the alternative to proactively engaging a terrorist or mass shooter is to just accept that they are going to kill you or others?

Yes, sometimes they will be able to kill people without any chance of stopping the attack (suicide bombs and IED's). But a large percentage of the attacks offer at least a possibility of ending the terrorists life with minimum loss of innocent life, if someone intervenes early in the attack.

The German Police are not specially trained, they are very similarly trained to the average small town police force, even though they displayed a fair amount of MP5's. They are not GSG 9. Watching video of their deployment and tactics, there seemed to be a lack of training, communication and weapons discipline for the task at hand. Not knocking them, mind you, but they were obviously struggling at points.

So yes, it does matter how often you go to the range and how good of a shot you are. I refuse to surrender to these bastards beforehand. I was better than them when I was in uniform, and I plan on staying that way in the future. Training is how you stay ahead of them.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

readytogo said:


> The net is full of experts but is impossible to predict the mind of someone set on doing harm, especially for political or religious reasons .Someone walks into a theater with a explosive belt or like the in Boston a simple back pack pressure cooker and surrounded by a large police force or even in the McDonalds in Germany with it especially train police force and even after the truck attack in Nice, it took only seconds to killed. So it doesn't matter how many times you go to the range or how go of a shot you are, anyone with the intention to kill, will kill period .The truck driver did it without firing a shot.


I have to disagree. The truck driver was stopped by a gun. Unfortunately, in France only the bad guys and the cops have guns. I believe it was one of our members here that said he wouldn't have gotten far in Texas. It does matter how good of a shot you are. While you may not be able to keep a terrorist from killing you might be able prevent them from killing as many. What if someone had started shooting at the driver in the first hundred yards? If memory serves he went over a mile. How many lives could have been saved? How many people would never have even seen the truck let alone been killed or injured by it? Most of these people would never know how close they came.

Often mass murderers will stop when confronted with a gun. Just down the street from my home a young man went into a school and started shooting. He killed two and wounded two others. When the cops showed he gave up because they had guns. This is not a unique situation. Some even shoot themselves when a gun shows up.

If you're good enough to take a head shot then do it. Not every mass murderer or terrorist is dressed in a bomb but if you think they are then there is nothing to lose by taking the head shot. If you don't have a gun with you then it doesn't matter how good a shot you are.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Currently I am in a place where the rules are NO guns, NO puppies and only a small pocket knife (I carry a multi tool with a very sharp yet small blade). I would have no choice but to hunker down and try to avoid the attacker. Then crawl out (I can't walk too fast yet) as best as I can. If the assailant has more than a gun, I'm pretty much screwed. I don't have the actual strength to fight him, maybe stab them with a restaurant knife.

Yeah, not the best plan but all I have.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Balls004 said:


> You didn't say anything about shooting the SOB's in the first place. That sort of stop things in their tracks, doesn't it? Shoot them in the head, and then you don't have to worry about a vest, ballistic or explosive.


True, I should have included that in my original post. I was assuming that no one would be carrying. Give the large number of people who actually possess concealed carry permits, but DON'T CARRY, it's not a huge likelihood that someone in the place will be carrying.

I will be, however.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

Todays Survival Show said:


> True, I should have included that in my original post. I was assuming that no one would be carrying.


You live in Texas for Chris Sake! And you assume no one would be carrying? Do you actually live in Texas? Just curious... Can someone trace "its IP"... Now I'm curious....


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes of course I'm in Texas and of course I carry, every day. That doesn't mean that everyone who reads this post lives in TX or any other gun friendly state and carries every day. Only 3.6 % of the population of the USA, has a CCW permit. And of those, how many do you think actually carry? Texas or not, the likelihood of someone having a gun on them and willing to use it, is slim.

I wish that were not so, but those are the facts.


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## Cotton (Oct 12, 2013)

Todays Survival Show said:


> And of those, how many do you think actually carry? Texas or not, the likelihood of someone having a gun on them and willing to use it, is slim. I wish that were not so, but those are the facts.


That is not a fact, just your opinion of hundreds of websites&#8230;

So your main concern is about who will read your post or blog&#8230; There is no place for you here&#8230; We're a bunch of old farmers and ranchers&#8230; Willing to share old knowledge to those who wish to learn&#8230;real wisdom.

We have no time for bloggers who wish to pad their pockets with old knowledge that can be had anywhere&#8230;

Good luck on selling ancient knowledge... Good luck on selling anyone knowledge you haven't experienced&#8230;.

Good luck on making your responses appear as thought you actual "Have knowledge on surviving" "growing or hunting food"&#8230;Good luck on that&#8230;

I would give a suggestion as to where to display your show&#8230; but I'm sure you have decades of experience with that&#8230;

Tell me again&#8230; where and why do folks carry guns&#8230; Enlighten us with "your facts"&#8230; or better yet, tell us how we can enrich your blog&#8230; Which ever you prefer&#8230; 

Got anymore cute responses...


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

*Hard choice*

A possible worst case situation = Bad guy with displayed pistol, holding a child as a shield. Shooter (me) 20 feet away, armed with pistol and willing to respond. SO, what do I do? 1) Has the bad guy fired the pistol or is just waving it? 2) Does the Bad guy have the pistol in contact with the child? 3) Where is the pistol aimed at the child?

Why are these questions important? 1) If no shots have been fired, then it may be possible to wait for Police response. 2) If the pistol is in contact with the child, a possible reflex action from shooting Bad guy could get the child shot = hold fire. 3) Pistol pointed but not in contact might miss if triggered by reflex action = Possible shooting if threat escalates.

If the Bad guy starts shooting, it will require me to shoot Bad guy. I would hate to risk the child but a active shooter puts everybody in danger. This would be a no- win situation but the outcome has to be stop BAD GUY. Please NOTE: I would not and I do not care why the Bad guy was endangering a child or what motivated the Bad guy. The bad guy gets treated just like any other rabid dog, impounded or put down.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

Woody said:


> Currently I am in a place where the rules are NO guns, NO puppies and only a small pocket knife (I carry a multi tool with a very sharp yet small blade). I would have no choice but to hunker down and try to avoid the attacker. Then crawl out (I can't walk too fast yet) as best as I can. If the assailant has more than a gun, I'm pretty much screwed. I don't have the actual strength to fight him, maybe stab them with a restaurant knife.
> 
> Yeah, not the best plan but all I have.


It's still better than not having a plan at all.


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

is it unusual to argue with a TV show? and more interestingly, has anyone else seen a TV show talk back to the viewer? Wait - DOES anyone else see the TV show answering back?

(What the Heck is in this coffee?)


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Caribou said:


> I have to disagree. The truck driver was stopped by a gun. Unfortunately, in France only the bad guys and the cops have guns. I believe it was one of our members here that said he wouldn't have gotten far in Texas. It does matter how good of a shot you are. While you may not be able to keep a terrorist from killing you might be able prevent them from killing as many. What if someone had started shooting at the driver in the first hundred yards? If memory serves he went over a mile. How many lives could have been saved? How many people would never have even seen the truck let alone been killed or injured by it? Most of these people would never know how close they came.
> 
> Often mass murderers will stop when confronted with a gun. Just down the street from my home a young man went into a school and started shooting. He killed two and wounded two others. When the cops showed he gave up because they had guns. This is not a unique situation. Some even shoot themselves when a gun shows up.
> 
> If you're good enough to take a head shot then do it. Not every mass murderer or terrorist is dressed in a bomb but if you think they are then there is nothing to lose by taking the head shot. If you don't have a gun with you then it doesn't matter how good a shot you are.


Yes he was stop with a bullet but after he killed how many?


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*German Police Training..*



Balls004 said:


> Yes, the net is full of experts. Some have real world experience and credentials and some don't. It's a reader beware situation.
> 
> Are you saying the the alternative to proactively engaging a terrorist or mass shooter is to just accept that they are going to kill you or others?
> 
> ...


Following public unrest in 1960, police schools started to employ teaching professionals, psychologists, political scientists and sociologists. (Schulte, 1995). In the late 60s, more attention was paid to police training. In 1967, the guidelines for police training were defined at the conference of the ministers of the interior. To enter the police force the recruits were required to have completed intermediate education. The courses lasted from 2,5 to 3 years and included 25 professional subjects. In 1975, the topics of these subjects were modernized. The higher education professional schools ("Fachhochschulen") were established in the 70s. Police training in these institutions took three years and the aim was to add professional and scientific knowledge as well as practically oriented knowledge to police work. With this kind of training the students acquire the same kind of education as other employees in the state administration (see Virjent-Novak, 1995, for a review of higher police education in Germany, and this is only the regular police force not the paramilitary one. Maybe that is why less innocent citizens are killed by happy gun toting cops while they go for their ID or lying on the ground or maybe playing with a toy truck. Police training in the USA is a drop in the bucket maybe that is why with the resent shootings they are asking for more training ,after the facts.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

*U.S. Police Training in Use of Force Deadly .*

Expert: U.S. Police Training in Use of Deadly Force Woefully Inadequate

http://prospect.org/article/expert-us-police-training-use-deadly-force-woefully-inadequate


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

readytogo said:


> ... the facts.


Sounds good - but I saw a lot of weapons sweeping their buddies, improper stance and weapon handling. Just to be clear: I am not a professional! If my skillset is better than what I watched them doing - with the minimal amount of training I've had, perhaps their schooling is spending too much time on politics and sociology and not enough on fundamentals. Just wanted to point that out.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

icMojo said:


> Sounds good - but I saw a lot of weapons sweeping their buddies, improper stance and weapon handling. Just to be clear: I am not a professional! If my skillset is better than what I watched them doing - with the minimal amount of training I've had, perhaps their schooling is spending too much time on politics and sociology and not enough on fundamentals. Just wanted to point that out.


I agree and not been a active police officer or paramilitary I can only mention some of the facts that I read and or see also just because I carry a weapon it doesn't mean I`m a Rambo type individual nor a professional train in the act ,I`m just a regular guy ,family man with a fire arm and the reality is that once the adrenalin hits you just don`t know how your brain receptors are going to react period so all this talk about head shots or body shots is nothing more than pure talk because even the best have under stress killed their love ones or the family dog ;realistic police training videos have proven that.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Balls004 said:


> The current thinking I'm seeing from a tactical standpoint is to shoot them in the face, side or back of the head. Preferably from ambush and cover. That does two important things. First, since dead man initiators are rarely used, shutting down the central nervous system greatly reduces the opportunity for the bad guy to activate a bomb to begin with. Think of the Istanbul Airport attack and the one terrorist who was ambushed by the police but managed to blow himself up.
> 
> The second problem is that TATP seems to be the explosive of choice, particularly where military or commercial compounds are harder to get. It is made from easily obtained materials and relatively unstable, to the point that it is likely that it might be set off from a bullet strike to a vest or belt.
> 
> ...


Indeed a new reality it is. One that many people still won't accept. More and more shooting schools are teaching head shots now. We have to prepare now more than ever for this new type of threat. Having a plan is far more important than no plan at all, then having the skill to pull if off is another challenge.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

Todays Survival Show said:


> Yes of course I'm in Texas and of course I carry, every day. That doesn't mean that everyone who reads this post lives in TX or any other gun friendly state and carries every day. Only 3.6 % of the population of the USA, has a CCW permit. And of those, how many do you think actually carry? Texas or not, the likelihood of someone having a gun on them and willing to use it, is slim.
> 
> I wish that were not so, but those are the facts.


Here in Arizona, we have open carry, and people DO avail themselves of that! The likelihood of someone here having a weapon is very *high*, regardless of whatever "facts" you are citing. The other day, I was standing in line in Walmart behind a cowboy with twin revolvers in a beautiful leather holster (and I'm not calling him a cowboy disrespectfully- that's what he does for a living- I struck up a conversation with him while we were waiting because his holsters were really amazing and home made!). 
If something happened and for some reason I was not able to use my weapon or I needed help, it was reassuring to see this fella was ready- and he wasn't the only one!

:2thumb:


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

Of course there are areas on the country where people carry more often than other areas. Arizona, obviously is one of those. I used to live there for 7 years. So I experienced it. But the simple truth is that it's very unlikely that someone will have a gun, when a terrorist or mass shooting starts. Part of the reason is that the terrorists attack gun free zones (another problem.)

I wish this were not so, as I've stated before. And even if someone is in the building with a gun, it begs the question, "can they be effective using it under the stress of the attack?"


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Todays Survival Show said:


> Of course there are areas on the country where people carry more often than other areas. Arizona, obviously is one of those. I used to live there for 7 years. So I experienced it. But the simple truth is that it's very unlikely that someone will have a gun, when a terrorist or mass shooting starts. Part of the reason is that the terrorists attack gun free zones (another problem.)
> 
> I wish this were not so, as I've stated before. And even if someone is in the building with a gun, it begs the question, "can they be effective using it under the stress of the attack?"


Like the Doc, I live in Arizona. If I saw somebody was mowing down people with their vehicle, they would come under fire. My Stress factor would be the least of the driver's worries. 18+1 and I bet the problem is solved. The only time I don't have a pistol on me is when I am sleeping and then it is within arms reach, plus the spare ammo. I do agree the the a-holes tend to attack gun free zones, shows just how big a bunch cowards they are.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> shows just how big a bunch cowards they are.


Or a wise tactical decision.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

hiwall said:


> Or a wise tactical decision.


Hiwall, I think in the long run, it will prove to a poor tactical plan. Attacking military or police stations, would provide a possible form of legitimacy, Ambush and attacking unarmed civilians, will prove to be their downfall. I this this will prove to be a case of winning the battle and losing the war. JMHO. I still think they are cowards too.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

readytogo said:


> I agree and not been a active police officer or paramilitary I can only mention some of the facts that I read and or see also just because I carry a weapon it doesn't mean I`m a Rambo type individual nor a professional train in the act ,I`m just a regular guy ,family man with a fire arm and the reality is that once the adrenalin hits you just don`t know how your brain receptors are going to react period so all this talk about head shots or body shots is nothing more than pure talk because even the best have under stress killed their love ones or the family dog ;realistic police training videos have proven that.


RTG, what I hear you saying is that you have a firearm and that you have not trained with sufficiently to protect yourself or your loved ones should it be required. You seem to be satisfied with being mediocre. I am not. I train to be effective when the need arises.

This _*talk*_ about headshots and body shots is not just useless talk. Training is what reduces or eliminates the mistakes that are made under stress. The knowledge of what to do when is of paramount importance, and only by thinking and practicing these things can you influence the outcome if it actually happens. I know what my reaction will be, because I have practiced and trained.

Mistakes are unavoidable in any type of combat. But the biggest mistake is not being prepared in the first place. Fight or flight are reasonable options, freeze is not. Especially when it might be your loved ones in the terrorists crosshairs.

I am not a Rambo type character. I am very adept at being quiet and unnoticeable. The analogy is good though, because although he did not look for trouble, when it came time to handle it, he was very good at it. In that way, maybe you are right.

I'm not going to let the terrorist win through either inaction on my part, or a lack of training. They train, and so do I.

I plan on winning.


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

> And even if someone is in the building with a gun, it begs the question, "can they be effective using it under the stress of the attack?"


That is a silly question. Really. It is an unanswerable, unless you've actually been there and done that and done it (at least somewhat) successfully, no individual can answer that for sure. They don't call 'em FNG's and other such colorful names without reason.

As for me, I'd wager that I'd do well. I have been terrified before and I was still able to function. When I was, it was hard to think or even to move in that instant. My extremities went numb, I began to get tunnel vision, my stomach seemed to be filled with some sort of cold jumping lead ball bearings. I couldn't have used the bathroom if I had wanted to do so, nothing in that department was online.

I never found myself in a shootout of any sort, but I have been in seriously life threatening situations on more than one occasion and I performed. The first time was harder than the second because in the second situation I knew I'd been able to think, plan and act quickly and accurately enough to survive before and that gave me confidence -- not that I was actually thinking that, it was more like muscle memory or something.

I think that part of that performance is mindset, not that I have a F**** it attitude about my life, but you sort of have to accept that you're in that situation and you just have to push through it. Something like a combination of understanding and acceptance in that moment. Perhaps others have a different recollection of their experiences. For me it was exceptionally quick, like a lightening bolt where you switch from NO! to GO! in an eye blink. :dunno:

Well, I guess that is as clear as mud to you all  To me the only thinking I need is how to get my family out of the way and then I only need to do what has to be done to survive. Can I pull the trigger? Yes and I feel confident that I'll be watching the background tracking my targets well and that I'll continue to put round holes in that target as long as that target is moving.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I've thought on this. No, I have never been in a situation where I had a firearm and had to use it against a human being. And no, I am not trained in that kind of suburban situation either. What I am confident of is that if I pull a firearm, I can sure hit what I am shooting at. No, I can't hit the eye on a gnat at 100 yards. Don't even pretend to be that proficient. For an animal or person though, I know I'd be more than able to make a direct hit.

Since I have never been in that situation, can't say definitely that I know I would be able to pull the trigger. I feel very confident that I would. I have been in situations where I have pulled a pistol at "neighborhood" dogs that have packed up and come after one of my labs while we are out in the woods. I have fired warning shots near the first one and they have all taken off at the big bang. With the first round being 'rat shot', my 9mm makes a thunderous BANG! <LOL> Could I have put one down if they did not heed the warning? You bet, that I am 100% confident in. A person is a different thing altogether though.

Now, would I be conscience enough to think about where the projectile was going if I did miss or it went through the target? Since I have never been in anything besides an open area situation, can't say for sure. I feel confident, through all my upbringing and training, that I would. I planned on it while I was using a pistol and rifle for home protection. Knew just what area to avoid discharging so that it would not hit a neighbors home. Solved that with a shotgun and #4 and #8 shot as the first 4 rounds.

I do think that anyone with a firearm and wanting to use it for protection should go to a range at least twice a year and blow through a box of ammo. Pretty stupid not to. First off to keep reminding yourself of what happens when you pull the trigger. There is a big bang, the firearms jumps a bit and a projectile goes out the business end and hits something. Second to make sure that after the bang, the projectile will go in the direction you want it to. And most importantly, that it is in good operating condition and not collecting dust. I consider that firearm abuse.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I forgot to include the other two important reasons!!

One, it is great stress relief! Rough week at the office? Nothing beats it.

Second... I forget... OH! It is pretty fun! Nothing beats that bang at the range, unless you are outside plinking cans or something. Fun for the dog also. You get that 'What'd ya get? What'd ya get??' excitement until they find out it is nothing more than a can. Which they RUN to get and bring back anyway, just because. Waiting anxiously for the command that it is alright to go and get it first that is. Which is another very important training tool. I know my animal will be right at my side when I fire, I don't have to worry about where the heck she is in the dark.

My second lab I never had to worry about, I knew right where she was. First shot, she ran faster then the bullet! Right back home and cowered on the porch, waiting to get in and try and hide under the bed.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Walk Through It*

The most important thing you can do to prepare yourself for combat is to pick the most likely scenario and location that you would expect an attack and mentally walk through your response.

After you do this , actually walk through it with your weapon and dry fire.

This is the way you train automatic response.

Keep it as simple as possible.

Walk through it in your mind daily.


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

BillM said:


> The most important thing you can do to prepare yourself for combat is to pick the most likely scenario and location that you would expect an attack and mentally walk through your response.
> 
> After you do this , actually walk through it with your weapon and dry fire.
> 
> ...


This ^^^ -- unless it's the local Bob Evans or Owens... They frown on that sort of thing


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

icMojo said:


> That is a silly question.


No it's not really. There are many ways to simulate being under stress and have to deliver the shot. Training classes and competition matches just to name a couple.

There are even reality based self defense classes on what to do if you're attacked and unarmed. Richard Ryan teaches good classes on that as well.

A lot of times people think the can deliver the shot or know what to do, but when they are in a reality based training environment, the lights come on and me included, realize there's a lot know.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Rotfl*



icMojo said:


> This ^^^ -- unless it's the local Bob Evans or Owens... They frown on that sort of thing


Nope, I wouldn't advise the dry fire at Bob Evens but would advise asking for the table beside the emergency Exit Door .


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## icMojo (Jul 6, 2016)

BillM said:


> Nope, I wouldn't advise the dry fire at Bob Evens but would advise asking for the table beside the emergency Exit Door .


That is my favorite spot, I can see the whole room and I can get out if needed.



Todays Survival Show said:


> No it's not really. There are many ways to simulate being under stress and have to deliver the shot. Training classes and competition matches just to name a couple.
> 
> There are even reality based self defense classes on what to do if you're attacked and unarmed. Richard Ryan teaches good classes on that as well.
> 
> A lot of times people think the can deliver the shot or know what to do, but when they are in a reality based training environment, the lights come on and me included, realize there's a lot know.


Simulations are ... simulations, may as well be a good tactical video game, you know going in to it that the game is a game and no consequences for your actions (except a bit of razzing from you buddies) if you screw up.

If you screw up for real - At the least, you're going to jail and maybe your family will pay as well. That's a whole different level of crap than having some joker through firecrackers and flash the lights while you're wearing your safety gear and shooting at a paper or metal target.

In my limited experience civilian training only trains you on muscle memory techniques and not on making your brain work while your trying not to fill your pants. Even military training can only get you to the right town, maybe the right neighborhood.

Competitions are games, your brain is in a whole other area, definitely not a shootout at Bob Evans. Neither you nor anyone else can say for sure what will happen that first time, until that first time has come and gone.


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## shawn_c2000 (Jul 18, 2016)

Also if it's an active shooter do not funnel towards the exits without cover I just attended a class on this


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## Meerkat (May 31, 2011)

We took a gun safety class decades ago from a retired Army Ranger. He said two in the chest,one in the head in that order.


Said most people in a shooting situation will miss the first head shots.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Meerkat said:


> ...most people in a shooting situation will miss the first head shots.


I'd wager most would put the first shots into the ground in front of them as they bring their weapon up to target.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Meerkat said:


> We took a gun safety class decades ago from a retired Army Ranger. He said two in the chest,one in the head in that order.
> 
> Said most people in a shooting situation will miss the first head shots.


Decades ago, I would have agreed with him, but today, especially if I have any indication that it might be jihady joe related, it's smarter to go to the head. The threat has changed, and so must our response to it.

If you can't make a first shot head shot, keep shooting until you connect. Nothing says that you can't shoot more than once or twice or even a whole mag if needed. In the meantime, practice it...


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Meerkat said:


> We took a gun safety class decades ago from a retired Army Ranger. He said two in the chest,one in the head in that order.
> 
> Said most people in a shooting situation will miss the first head shots.


I practice what I call the close and personal draw. The pistol levels at my hip - just clear of holster -- 2 rounds fired and then arm extension for head shots. If opponent is more than 21 feet away (guess work here), then first shot is with full arm extension -- 2 to the body-- then head shots. I will continue to fire as long as the opponent (bad guy) continues to move. Cease movement = cease fire, simple as that.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

The Mozambique drill, two in the chest and one in the head, was developed a few years back to deal with bullet proof vests. Today we have a new threat and we had better develop new techniques to deal with it. One problem many countries have had is the generals preparing for the last war. 

While the Mozambique drill is still valid for home invaders and robbers it may not work for some terrorists. If there is a chance of a bomb vest a head shot is best. With a shot through the heart they might have as much as fifteen seconds to either shoot you or set off a bomb. Some of the the explosives they are using today in the vests are highly unstable and might be set off by a bullet striking them. Two in the chest could be counterproductive. Don't give up the old techniques but continue to learn the new ones. 

Just like every other skill, there is always something new to learn about self defense.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Caribou said:


> The Mozambique drill, two in the chest and one in the head, was developed a few years back to deal with bullet proof vests. Today we have a new threat and we had better develop new techniques to deal with it. One problem many countries have had is the generals preparing for the last war.
> 
> While the Mozambique drill is still valid for home invaders and robbers it may not work for some terrorists. If there is a chance of a bomb vest a head shot is best. With a shot through the heart they might have as much as fifteen seconds to either shoot you or set off a bomb. Some of the the explosives they are using today in the vests are highly unstable and might be set off by a bullet striking them. Two in the chest could be counterproductive. Don't give up the old techniques but continue to learn the new ones.
> 
> Just like every other skill, there is always something new to learn about self defense.


Caribou, very good advice. I do practice for the attacker / mugger event as that is the most likely event I will encounter. If they (terrorist) are within touching range, then I think I will take a chance on the body shot, if I can get full arm extension, without the chance of being disarmed, then head shot would be best. Each situation will dictate the best response, The only thing I can say for certain, the bad guy will know I was there.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I can see going for a head short first, to eliminate the threat. However, I don't think I would be that proficient right out of the gate. Even with body armor, a body shot is going to stun them for a second, enough to take a better aim with the second, third or fourth. It is a larger target and always the chance of doing damage should I hit around, above or under it. I don't practice quick draw. Even in a calm situation, like target practice, there is the real possibility of shooting myself in the leg or foot, or someone near me. I pull my weapon, point it in the direction I want a projectile to go, arm it and then fire. Sure I can practice doing it faster, but I don't want to feel unsafe doing it. In a 'panic' situation, there is even a greater chance of me misfiring if I try to be too fast.

If I am the first one to the door, I would be knocked over and trampled by the mass exodus that follows. I'm sure of that. In my situation, I have no choice but to hunker down as best as I can and wait for my chance.


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## shawn_c2000 (Jul 18, 2016)

Eh just use a 12 Ga slug that'll do it


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Kind of hard to bring one in to a Bob Evans though. Maybe in some places, but not where I am.


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## Todays Survival Show (Nov 23, 2009)

icMojo said:


> That is my favorite spot, I can see the whole room and I can get out if needed.
> 
> Simulations are ... simulations, may as well be a good tactical video game, you know going in to it that the game is a game and no consequences for your actions (except a bit of razzing from you buddies) if you screw up.
> 
> ...


Well obviously, unless we have been in an actual gunfight or active shooter situation, we don't have that direct experience, so given simulations are probably he best way to train. Law enforcement has been doing it for decades. Your response doesn't seem to indicate you understand what good force on force and shoot house simulations are like. If you've had that type of training, I don't think you would make a response like this. You admit your lack of civilian training.

You will get punished if you screw up, because airsoft pellets hurt! I have experience with that. It's not just getting crap from my buddies, but you also experience pain, which is a great teacher.


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