# Drugs, am I missing any?



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I had my first aid kit stolen, which was a blessing in disguise, because not only will the insurance pay for a nicer one, but it also gave me the excuse to replenish many of my medical supplies. 

Here is my spring inventory of drugs and time sensitive medical creams, jells etc. I would appreciate any thoughts about things I might need to add. I make a trip each year to eastern Europe where I pick up antibiotics cheap, so any recommendation in this area would be very welcome.

Main kit 
Antiseptic
Alcohol wipes 5/2012
Iodine Wipes 5/2012
Rubbing Alcohol 5/2012
H202 5/2012

Pain
Mercuroclear 5/2012
Ibuprofen 200mg x 40	4/2011
Acetaminophen	500mg x 40	6/2011	
Icy Hot 5/2012

Anti-Histimine
Diphenhydramine25mg x 100	5/2012
Cetirizine	10mg x 7	5/2012	
Hydrocortison Cream 5/2012

Decongestants
Pseudoephedrine 30mg x 24	7/2011

Anti-diarretics
Tums 5/2012
Loperaminde 5/2012
Imodium 5/2011

Antibiotics
Ciprofloxin	500mg x 50	7/2012
Amoxicillian	500mg x 50	7/2012

Trauma Bag
Antiseptic
Alcohol wipes 5/2012
Iodine Wipes 5/2012
Rubbing Alcohol 5/2012
H202 5/2012

Pain
Mercuroclear 
Ibuprofen 200mg x 20	4/2011

Anti-Histimine
Diphenhydramine	25mg x 100	5/2012
Cetirizine	10mg x 7	5/2012	
Hydrocortison Cream 5/2012

Anti-diarretics
Tums 5/2012
Loperaminde 5/2012

Drug Cache
Suppliments
Multi-vitamins 5/2012
Potassium Iodine 32.8mg x300	2/2012

Decongestants
Pseudoephedrine 30mg x 48	7/2011
Mucinex 630mg x 10	1/2012

Anti-biotics
Ciprofloxin	250mg x 20	11/2008 EXPIRED
Metrolozole 400mg x 20	9/2011
Azitromicin 500mg x 3	9/2011
Erithromicin 500mg x 10	9/2011


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

The dates are the dates I acquired each item, not their expiration. Aside from antibiotics I am also concerned about drugs for the gut, as I know that dysentery, diarrhea and the like are major issues when you are without modern water treatment and medical care.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

id include a bunch of aspirin


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## artman556 (May 2, 2012)

You should look into eyecare and teeth care


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

ok, i thought about it, and ill also add that you should, that preppers in general should, include marijuana in our medicinal kits. it just works for a lot of things


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

I'll pass on the weed, because its illegal, and I try not to break the law, but in a world without the rule of law, it would definitely be an option for a pain killer, in fact the only one that I would be able to grow to the best of my knowledge. I bet my brother would be able to figure our where to get some seed and how to grow it... he grew up in the 70s after all, LOL.

What is the practical benefit of Aspirin, over Acetaminophen and Ibuprofen? I know that it is recommended for heart issues, but other than that I though all thrhttp://www.spiritdaily.com/ee of these are fairly similar pain relievers, and I think its Aspirin that causes Reye Syndrome.


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Aspirin "can" cause Reyes Syndrome, but just 1 overdose of Tyleno WILL kill a liver. I and many other will not even have 1 tablet of Tylenol in the house! Waaay to dangerous in a stress situation. You might also consider upping greatly the amounts of all the antibiotics you are stocking - IF you are stocking for a true SHTF situation which would be potentially very long lasting. Also maybe stock some antibiotics in 250 mg and 100 mg doses which would be best for treating children and even small frame women. JMO and what I do.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Orajel and paraffin for teeth.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

goatlady said:


> Aspirin "can" cause Reyes Syndrome, but just 1 overdose of Tyleno WILL kill a liver. I and many other will not even have 1 tablet of Tylenol in the house! Waaay to dangerous in a stress situation. You might also consider upping greatly the amounts of all the antibiotics you are stocking - IF you are stocking for a true SHTF situation which would be potentially very long lasting. Also maybe stock some antibiotics in 250 mg and 100 mg doses which would be best for treating children and even small frame women. JMO and what I do.


All drugs have side effects. Overdose due to chronic use of Aspirin has a 25% likelihood of killing you.



> Aspirin overdose has potentially serious consequences, sometimes leading to significant morbidity and death. Patients with mild intoxication frequently have nausea and vomiting, abdominal pain, lethargy, tinnitus, and dizziness. More significant symptoms occur in more severe poisonings and include hyperthermia, tachypnea, respiratory alkalosis, metabolic acidosis, hypokalemia, hypoglycemia, hallucinations, confusion, seizure, cerebral edema, and coma. The most common cause of death following an aspirin overdose is cardiopulmonary arrest usually due to pulmonary edema.


Aspirin and Ibuprofen are of the same class of drug, and the only major difference is the Aspirin that Aspirin is indicated for treatment of cardiac conditions, which in and of itself may be a reason to have some. But not having Acetaminophen on hand in a SHTF is a BAD IDEA. Sure it can kill your liver, if not careful, but if you need something for pain or fever related to a wound it is the OTC drug of choice, since Ibuprofen and Aspirin can inhibit blood clotting. It also is counter-indicated for pregnant women and children.

The 500mg tablets could be cut, couldn't they, for a lower dose?

My thought is that I have roughly 10 normal courses of treatment for the Cipro and Amoxicillian, only one Z-Pack, 2 Metrolozole treatments, and 2 Erithromicin. I would like to double that because I agree with the motto 2 is 1 and 1 is none, but I could not imagine using 25 courses of antibiotics before the antibiotics became useless.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

Padre said:


> The 500mg tablets could be cut, couldn't they, for a lower dose?
> 
> My thought is that I have roughly 10 normal courses of treatment for the Cipro and Amoxicillian, only one Z-Pack, 2 Metrolozole treatments, and 2 Erithromicin. I would like to double that because I agree with the motto 2 is 1 and 1 is none, but I could not imagine using 25 courses of antibiotics before the antibiotics became useless.


Only pills that have lines can be cut. And then it's only halved.

A pill is not necessarily homogeneous, in other words, if u cut it, you could end up with all active ingredient in one half, and no active ingredient in the other, or anywhere in between


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)




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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

Looks like you got a nice kit there. I am new to this forum (first post, in fact) and I am an emergency NP and former paramedic and Navy corpsman. Here are my suggestions:

Antibiotics: generally a course of antibiotics is for 7-10 days. In some cases one dose will treat, in some cases a course is 14+ days. It varies greatly. Get a good antibiotic guide and keep it in your kit. I recommend the EMRA 2011 Antibiotic Guide, cost about $25 on Amazon and is small and very easy to use. 

Personally, I try and keep at least two courses per family member on hand. As they expire I get more, but keep the old. I am a strong believer that they do not immediately go bad (unless you are storing them in the trunk of your car). 

In these regards, you might want to review what you already have. Azithromycin 500mg x 3? That would be the correct dose for sinusitis (1 daily x 3 days). If you take two of them at once you can treat for some STDs. Beyond that, you will need more and you will need 250mg pills. A standard 'Z-pack' is 500mg x 1day then 250mg x4 days (Azithromycin lasts for about 10-14 days in the body). Other regimens include 500mg daily x 5 days or 2000 mg x one dose (on an empty stomach) for pneumonia (personally, I just prescribe a Z-pack along with another antibiotic for pneumonia). Azithromycin can also be used for travelers diarrhea or diarrhea caused by E. coli. 

Metronidazole (Flagyl) is usually dosed at 500mg to 750 mg 2-3 times a day for 7-10 days (depending on what you are treating). Good for the gut and deep wounds and a few other things. Do not drink alcohol while taking. 

The dosing of Cipro can vary widely. For a simple bladder infection 250-500mg x 3-5 days; for a respiratory infection 500mg twice a day for 7-10 days; for some skin infections (like to the bottom of the foot or that you got in the water) the dose is 750mg twice a day for 5-10 days. 

Not trying to offer an antibiotic primer, not even close, just offering some food for thought...the numbers of each drug you have listed seem low to me. 

Other antibiotics I would store include: doxycycline, Augmentin, Levaquin, and Bactrim. 

Doxycycline is good for a huge number of concerns. Bit by a tick? One dose/one pill can prevent Lyme disease. One pill can also treat typhus in an epidemic and one pill a day can keep malaria away. It is even good against some worms. It can treat the plague and syphilis and anthrax and cholera. I normally prescribe it for skin infections (with Bactrim if I suspect MRSA), sinus infections, and respiratory infections including pneumonia. Take it with food and stay out of the sun. 

Augmentin is amoxicillin plus clavulate acid, which expands its antibacterial potential greatly. Pricey. Very good for severe infections of the skin (other than MRSA), of the sinuses, and respiratory tract. 

Levaquin is like Cipro on steroids (it is the next generation in the class) and it is effective against a wide range of infections. Pricey. I prescribe it only for severe infections where another antibiotic would not do...I prescribe it very sparingly. 

Bactrim is a must, unless you are allergic to sulfa. It can treat sinus infections, bladder infections, and skin infections, including MRSA. 

Antifungals: Diflucan, terbinafine, clotrimazole. The last two are over the counter creams the are good from ring worm, jock itch, athlete's foot, etc. What I tell my patients to do is to alternate, applying one cream then the other every 6 hours. Still can take a week or two (or more) to treat. 

Diflucan is an oral antifungal that is pretty safe (others can hurt the liver,etc). One dose (150mg) can treat a yeast infection, like the one you might get from taking all those antibiotics. One dose of Diflucan once a week x 4 weeks can treat/cure a fungal skin infection. 

If you are worried about radiation exposure, the recommended prophylactic regimen for radiation sickness is Levaquin, Diflucan, and acyclovir. 

Others: Tamiflu and Relenza, and Vermox. Tamiflu and Relenza are anti virals that work against the flu. I prefer Relenza, less resistance (actually, no resistance) and seems to be more effective, with less side effects, than Tamiflu...but I prescribe Tamiflu more because it is indicated for children (Relenza is for age 12 and up) and because many of my patients cannot figure out how to use the Relenza because they are too lazy to read the directions. 

Vermox is a treatment against several common intestinal parasites. Often one dose will have you pooping them out. 

Antihistamines: Pepcid or Zantac. Both are antihistamines (H-2 blockers) and are good for use with Benadryl (an H-1 blocker) in an allergic reaction (in addition to use for reflux). I tell my patients to take Pepcid or Zantac twice a day for 5 days after an allergic reaction and take Benadryl as needed. I also prescribe a steroid like prednisone and an EpiPen. You might want to add these to you bag too. Another thing to consider is an albuterol inhaler, good for allergic reactions and pneumonia, as well as asthma. 

Stomach problems: dicyclomine (Bentyl) and Donnatol. Both are great for stomach cramps, and Donnatol will help with diarrhea too. Never try and stop any diarrhea it the patient has fever or blood in the stool. Be careful, too, loperamide and Immodium are the same drug. Too much and you will be way stopped up. Consider keeping some fiber tablets, two after each loose stool will add bulk to the diarrhea so you will get pudding instead of squirts. Also, consider some skin protectant, like diaper rash cream, and a laxative in case you get stopped up. 

For nausea, Phenergan and Zofran are good. In Canada you can buy Gravol without a prescription and it is great for nausea and vomiting. In the US the same drug (Gravol) is sold as Dramamine (original formula). 

Pain meds: muscle relaxants, NSAIDs, Tylenol, etc. 

Muscle relaxants are good if you pulled or bruised something. Norflex is pricey, but marginally less sedating and you take it just twice a day. Also consider Flexeril and Robaxin. 

NSAIDs are the non-steroid antiinflammatory drugs, like aspirin, Motrin, Aleve. Any of these drugs can cause problems if you take too much or if you take them for too long. 

Aspirin is good for fevers, pain, inflammation, to prevent blood clots, and myriad other things. Get the safety/enteric coated tablets, they are easier on the stomach, and keep both 81mg and 325mg. Use the former if you are trying to prevent something and the latter to treat. If you think you are having a heart attack chew the pills. Reyes syndrome is a concern for children, and does not normally occur in adults. It is related to giving aspirin to child with a viral illness. To avoid, don't give aspirin to children under age 18. I have seen it prescribed to children with heart problems, gotta weigh the risks. 

Motrin/Advil are the same drug, ibuprofen. The are good for pain, inflammation, and fever. Don't over do it are you will get a hole in you stomach and will be pooping blood (same with any NSAID). Gotta take Motrin 3-4 times a day for 3-5 days to cut down on pain and inflammation, expect minimal relief if you only take a pill here or there. Aleve will work for fever, but not my first choice. I like Aleve because you only have to take it twice a day. 

Tylenol is about as safe as any other drug if you take it right. No more than 4000mg a day from any source (lots of drugs contain acetaminophen/Tylenol) and limit the duration that you are taking it as much as possible. It does nothing for inflammation, but is great for pain and fever. I recommend to my patients taking Motrin regularly for pain or fever, and then taking Tylenol if the Motrin is not enough. I keep the regular strength (325mg).

You might consider storing a few pills of something stronger for pain. If your kit was just stolen, you might consider Stadol or Talwin. These are great drugs for pain, but if a druggie louped up on narcotics tries them it will ruin his day. 

I highly recommend using these drugs only as a last resort and always seek professional medical advice. Even if you use them "right" many of these drugs can make you sick, even kill you.


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

Thank you, Whoisjohngaull(T?), for more clearly saying what I meant. The doses stocked by the OP just are way too skimpy, need to be doubled at the minimum in my opinion. I have been told be several M.D.s, PSs and Vets that antibiotics, stored properly, will be medicinaly effective for many years past the "expiration" dates and last even longer if stored in a freezer which effectively stops any degradation of the medicine.


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

You are welcome, though I would not freeze all medications. Freezing can actually damage some medications. Google the drug package insert for the drug in question and see what the manufacturer says. Most drugs should be kept around 60 degrees with minimal humidity. Only for convenience and lack of storage space I keep my medications at about 70 in my closet with dehumidifier packets. 

I remember reading about the findings of the DoD SLEP program. They found that Cipro, properly stored, is effective up to 13 years after manufacture. Some drugs, like nitroglycerin, are often bad before they expire.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

I've been told that you don't want to mix aspirin and ibuprofen... True or bs?


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

FatTire said:


> I've been told that you don't want to mix aspirin and ibuprofen... True or bs?


I dont know if it is BS but I have been told by several MD's to take both in an initial dose then alternate between Tylenol and Aspirin for maximum benefit.

Just a note on the above advice, it came from Army MD's.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Padre said:


> The dates are the dates I acquired each item, not their expiration. Aside from antibiotics I am also concerned about drugs for the gut, as I know that dysentery, diarrhea and the like are major issues when you are without modern water treatment and medical care.


You may want to add Pepto-Bismol, may be of some benefit.

On another note, if you are not dead-set on commercial medicines, ginger and fennel will often work better than Pepto for nausea and I'm sure it would store longer also, and it will not constipate. We no longer keep the Pink Stuff in the medicine cabinet.


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

In general, try and not mix Motrin and aspirin. Both are in the same class, have similar actions and side effects. If you take both any added relief that you receive will be tempered by the pain from the bleeding ulcer that you will get. 

Generally, I prescribe aspirin only as a preventative measure or as a treatment for something really bad (heart attack, diver with the bends, etc). Aspirin can be pretty rough on the stomach, so I usually prescribe Motrin or Aleve (in prescriptions strengths from the Walmart $4 list) for things like sprains, strains, breaks, etc. 

When I have a patient who needs an NSAID for, say, a twisted ankle and they are already on aspirin for, say, a heart condition things can get tricky. I could have them increase the dose of aspirin from, say, 81mg a day to 650mg every 6 hours. That would work for the pain and inflammation. However, it could tip them over if they are on the verge of developing a chronic aspirin over dose. I could just go ahead and prescribe Motrin, a short course is unlikely to be harmful, though the aspirin and the Motrin together can be overly hard on the stomach. Or, I can prescribe something completely different. If they don't have insurance I will often write for Mobic, still with some gastric problems, but it is taken only once a day so it can be spaced well away for the aspirin. If the patient has insurance I might write for Celebrex. Very pricey, but it is a lot easier on the stomach, especially with aspirin.


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## goatlady (Nov 7, 2011)

I only freeze pill form antibiotics as I don't have a "climate controlled" house and I know excessive heat and humidity will degrade meds fast and I really don't have room for storage in the fridge.


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## mdprepper (Jan 22, 2010)

Davarm said:


> I dont know if it is BS but I have been told by several MD's to take both in an initial dose then alternate between Tylenol and Aspirin for maximum benefit.
> 
> Just a note on the above advice, it came from Army MD's.


I've never heard of piggybacking Tylenol and Aspirin before (then again we only have 81mg Aspirin on hand for DH after the heart attack). I guess it would be about the same as using Tylenol and Motrin together for fevers? Tylenol every 4 hours and the Motrin every 6 hours works wonders (per my Pediatrician).

By the way a friend of mine, an Oncologist, stopped me from filling a prescription for 800mg Motrin (after a dental procedure). She said to just take 4 of the 200mg OTC stuff for the same effect and save some money.


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

Whether 200mg Motrin (over the counter/OTC) is cheaper than 800mg prescription Motrin depends on a couple of things. At Walmart they actually costs about the same. If you buy brand name Motrin or Advil it will be more expensive than the prescription. If you buy generic ibuprofen then the costs will just about even out. I have bought 30 of the 200mg OTC, Equate brand, ibuprofen for $1 before. You can get 30 of the 800mg ibuprofen from Walmart for $4. If you go to another pharmacy you might end up paying more, depending on your insurance co-pay. If you don't have a prescription, though...

Word of warning: don't take 800mg ibuprofen more than 3 times a day. As a general rule, for an adult, ibuprofen (Motrin/Advil) 400mg every 4 hours, 600mg every 6 hours, 800mg every 8 hours. Even taken properly,


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

Whoisjohngall said:


> Whether 200mg Motrin (over the counter/OTC) is cheaper than 800mg prescription Motrin depends on a couple of things. At Walmart they actually costs about the same. If you buy brand name Motrin or Advil it will be more expensive than the prescription. If you buy generic ibuprofen then the costs will just about even out. I have bought 30 of the 200mg OTC, Equate brand, ibuprofen for $1 before. You can get 30 of the 800mg ibuprofen from Walmart for $4. If you go to another pharmacy you might end up paying more, depending on your insurance co-pay. If you don't have a prescription, though...
> 
> Word of warning: don't take 800mg ibuprofen more than 3 times a day. As a general rule, for an adult, ibuprofen (Motrin/Advil) 400mg every 4 hours, 600mg every 6 hours, 800mg every 8 hours. Even taken properly,


[opps, finger slipped] Motrin can cause GI bleeding after just a few days.

Off topic, the Walmart $4 list is kind of a scam, from what I have been told by drug reps and pharmacy techs (and some of my patients). The drugs on the list are good and cheap, and the list is the real deal. However, Walmart ups the prices on other drugs, not on the list, to compensate. They hook you with the list and convenience and then milk you on the other drugs. If it is not on the $4 list, compare elsewhere to see what the prices are. Sam's Club actually has some of the cheapest prices and, if you are just going to the pharmacy, you do not need a membership, from what I have been told.


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

Opps, my finger slipped. What I was saying was that even taken properly Motrin can cause some GI bleeding after just a few days. 

Off topic, but be careful with the Walmart $4 list. The drugs on it are cheap and good, the list is the real deal, but they may price up some of their other, non-list drugs to compensate. If it is not on the $4 list you might think about doing some comparison shopping. I have heard at Sam's Club has the cheapest prices on drugs, and that you don't need a membership to use the pharmacy.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

mdprepper said:


> I've never heard of piggybacking Tylenol and Aspirin before (then again we only have 81mg Aspirin on hand for DH after the heart attack). I guess it would be about the same as using Tylenol and Motrin together for fevers? Tylenol every 4 hours and the Motrin every 6 hours works wonders (per my Pediatrician).
> 
> By the way a friend of mine, an Oncologist, stopped me from filling a prescription for 800mg Motrin (after a dental procedure). She said to just take 4 of the 200mg OTC stuff for the same effect and save some money.


The advice/prescription was in the mid 80's while in the army, I think I was at Ft. Belvoir up near your area. We had quite quite a few sports type injuries in my unit and the military doctors would do pretty much anything to keep from prescribing "Controlled(pain killers)" meds.

Now a days, I'm in the boat of those who refuse Tylenol and Motrin(except in extreme cases) because of possible liver damage associated with it. I have some military related injuries and for a long time I took them regularly and started to have issues with my liver until I stopped and went to aspirin. The liver function returned to normal and I have avoided them since then.

Another issue that should be considered about the NSAID's is possible heart issues, Remember Celebrex....they all have he same hazzards associated with them.


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## Whoisjohngall (May 21, 2012)

Used appropriately, Tylenol is pretty safe. Appropriately being no more that 4000mg a day and only for a few days at a time, and no alcohol. Most of the cases involving liver failure with Tylenol (acetaminophen) have involved people who took too much Tylenol at once (acute overdose), took high doses for too long (chronic overdose), or mixed Tylenol with other drugs.

An acute overdose is usually a suicide attempt, though why someone would try that is beyond me. It can also be accidental, given how many products contain acetaminophen as an ingredient it is easy to see how that can occur. 

A chronic overdose is a condition that is gaining recognition in recent years. It used to be recommend that you could take two extra strength Tylenol (1000mg) every 4 hours (6000mg a day). It was found that people taking this dose could have elevations of their liver enzymes in just a few days. Add that to some acetaminophen laced cough medicine...

Mixing Tylenol with other drugs that are hard on the liver is bad. The classic case was the guy who drank wine with dinner every night and took Tylenol daily. He ended up with liver failure. 

Yes, Tylenol can be bad, but so can any other drug.


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

mdprepper said:


> I've never heard of piggybacking Tylenol and Aspirin before


Don't know what you mean by "piggybacking", but consider Excedrin. Reads exactly like this on their website.

Excedrin® Extra Strength is a combination pain reliever that contains acetaminophen(tylenol), aspirin, and caffeine.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Whoisjohngall said:


> Used appropriately, Tylenol is pretty safe.


Thankyou JohnGall et al. for the 411. Aspirin and pepto have been added per your suggestions. Also I very much am interested in non-pharmaceutical cures as I myself don't like drugs.

I actually have a copy of the nurses drug guide on hand as well as a PA, 4 nurses, and 2 paramedics in my group, although my "group" aka my family and close friends, don't know per se that they are in my group. My close family knows I am prepping but not the extent of my preps. My hope is that whatever I have put away will be supplemented by what my family and friends can get their hands on. I will work on supplementing the antibiotics you recommended.


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## moonbatter (Jun 10, 2010)

I don't see an epi pen in there, or a suture kit, or splints, duct tape, staple gun (all of that may be in your "trama bag") and I'd also include silver nitrate water or silver nitrate, and some type of Quick Clotting or Cauterizing foam for gunshot or other deep punture wounds.


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## tjacobson (May 30, 2012)

Whoisjohngall said:


> Looks like you got a nice kit there. I am new to this forum (first post, in fact) and I am an emergency NP and former paramedic and Navy corpsman. Here are my suggestions:
> 
> Antibiotics: generally a course of antibiotics is for 7-10 days. In some cases one dose will treat, in some cases a course is 14+ days. It varies greatly. Get a good antibiotic guide and keep it in your kit. I recommend the EMRA 2011 Antibiotic Guide, cost about $25 on Amazon and is small and very easy to use.
> 
> ...


I am ex military police/special operations medic. I have stronger pain relievers in my kit (prescriptions that I have been prescribed over time). Yes, they expire but, I promise if your in enough pain to need some, you won't complain. Chances are when it hits the fan, there are going to be accidents like broken bones, stab wounds, even a gun shot. Aspirin, Motrin, Tylenol even with codeine is not going to cut it. 
My point is, I like the idea of Stadol / Talwin but, how would you ever acquire it? Those drugs to my knowledge are not easy to get? Not like the junkies choices on the black market... Any input would be appreciated and maybe used on you if ever in need!


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

Padre said:


> I actually have a copy of the nurses drug guide on hand as well as a PA, 4 nurses, and 2 paramedics in my group,


WOW! I think we're moving soon - gonna join YOUR group! Nice - very nice.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

moonbatter said:


> I don't see an epi pen in there, or a suture kit, or splints, duct tape, staple gun (all of that may be in your "trama bag") and I'd also include silver nitrate water or silver nitrate, and some type of Quick Clotting or Cauterizing foam for gunshot or other deep punture wounds.


I don't have an epi pen, but my PA keeps a few on hand. All the first aid (and beyond) is in the bag, which I must say is a duffle packed with all the goodies that you mention and more, I didn't itemize them because they aren't "drugs" per se.

The one thing you mention that I don't have is cauterizing foam, could you suggest a brand? I have quickclot and combat gauze, is the foam more useful?


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

tjacobson said:


> I am ex military police/special operations medic. I have stronger pain relievers in my kit (prescriptions that I have been prescribed over time). Yes, they expire but, I promise if your in enough pain to need some, you won't complain. Chances are when it hits the fan, there are going to be accidents like broken bones, stab wounds, even a gun shot. Aspirin, Motrin, Tylenol even with codeine is not going to cut it.
> My point is, I like the idea of Stadol / Talwin but, how would you ever acquire it? Those drugs to my knowledge are not easy to get? Not like the junkies choices on the black market... Any input would be appreciated and maybe used on you if ever in need!


Used to have some strong stuff (combat quality shall we say) that I "acquired" in my tavels, but I got rid of it because I didn't want to be caught with the stuff. As I said I don't like putting drugs in my body so I seldom ask for pain meds, and being young, strong and healthy I am seldom prescribed them.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Whoisjohngall said:


> Antibiotics: generally a course of antibiotics is for 7-10 days. In some cases one dose will treat, in some cases a course is 14+ days. It varies greatly. Get a good antibiotic guide and keep it in your kit. I recommend the EMRA 2011 Antibiotic Guide, cost about $25 on Amazon and is small and very easy to use.


Part of my problem is that I often get my antibiotics overseas where you can buy them without a prescription but where often I can't read the boxes or often understand the pharmacist. I usually go into the pharmacy with a list of drugs, trying not to look too suspicious and buy a few boxes of each drug.

I have a Drug book, and a PA who can write scripts though I don't want to ask them to get me anything just yet. I am hoping if the S begins to HTF they will agree to write me a few scripts for a few antibiotics as well as a few pain killers, before we bug out together. This is just my, emergency if I can't resupply at the pharmacy before it hits the fan supply.


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## invision (Aug 14, 2012)

One item i just added, a couple bottles of 151 rum... Can sterilize medical equipment as well as help as a pain killer


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

I wouldn't waste it on equipment! It is easy to store isopropyl alcohol for that. The 151 may be worth its weight in gold down the road.

One thing I noted from the original post is the term: Anti-diarretics. Just to inform, a anti-diuretic is something such as lasix, a water pill. An anti-diarrheal would be the pepto, immodium, keopectate, etc.

With medicines, one letter (or several) make all the difference. If you were talking to someone and asked for a "anti-diarretic," chances are you won't get any pink stuff.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Doxycycline is a good all round antibiotic to stock. Still works on a wide array of diseases. That, pain meds, and tooth care would be good.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

This page is diredtly to fish antibiotics but if you look around there is a TON of great info on storing drugs, what their useful life is, how to convince a Doc to help you prep, how to deal with a huge variety of issues all from a doctor. Was a great site and I intend in the near future to do my best to wear out a toner cartridge printing stuff out from there. Here's the link. http://armageddonmedicine.net/?p=6490


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## lanahi (Jun 22, 2009)

Don't overlook plant medicines either. Learn and possibly plant in the garden the various plant medicines. Learn how to use them. Some are not as strong as commercial medicines, others are stronger...but most areas of the country have wild plants growing that can help with most conditions. Examples: hawthorne for blood pressure, juniper for diabetes, white willow bark the original source of aspirin, cranberry for kidney stones, grapes for gallstones, cranberry for kidney infections, horsetail for diuretic, echinacea for infections, pine tar for clotting wounds, foxglove the original source of digitalis, mullein and coltsfoot for lungs, valerian the original Valium, plantain for skin eruptions and insect bites, beech leaves for swelling, raspberry bark for dysentery, on and on and on. Many, like foxglove and belladonna, etc., are very dangerous because of their strength or because they are poisonous in larger amounts.

Remember that nearly all commercial medicines started with plants. Of course, it is difficult to control dosages with plants, and it is not very handy in comparison, but if a survival situation lasts a long time, that's what we will be left with anyway. They don't expire.

Also be aware that most spices in our kitchen are also medicinal.

I have some empty gelatin capsules that would help in taking some foul-tasting medicines.


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## gobeav494 (Mar 4, 2012)

How do procure antibiotics and some of the more exotic items? I would like to own items like several treatments of antibiotics, a suture set and advanced painkillers, but don't know how to get them. How can I stitch someone up without some local anesthesia?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

There are several posts in this thread about that kind of stuff about all I can suggest on it is at the the link I posted two posts above yours. Check that site out or read this thread from the beggining lots of info and links in this thread alone.


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

Whoisjohngall said:


> I highly recommend using these drugs only as a last resort and always seek professional medical advice. Even if you use them "right" many of these drugs can make you sick, even kill you.


HEARST NATIONAL INVESTIGATION FINDS AMERICANS ARE CONTINUING TO DIE IN STAGGERING NUMBERS FROM PREVENTABLE MEDICAL INJURIES
NEW YORK, August 9, 2009 -- An estimated 200,000 Americans will die needlessly from preventable medical mistakes and hospital infections this year, according to "Dead By Mistake," a wide-ranging Hearst national investigation, which began reporting the findings today [www.deadbymistake.com/]. Despite an authoritative federal report 10 years ago that laid out the scope of the problem and urged the federal and state governments and the medical community to take clear and tangible steps to reduce the number of fatal medical errors,a staggering 98,000 Americans die from preventable medical errors each year and just as many from hospital-acquired infections.

"Dead By Mistake" is the result of an investigation conducted by Hearst newspaper and television journalists.


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## aard_rinn (Jun 21, 2012)

Get an MSDS for common drugs, and a guide to IDing pills so that if you find a stash of them you can ID them for sure, even if they are mixed/in a daily pill pod set/in baggies.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Pill-Book...TF8&qid=1351661967&sr=8-1&keywords=pill+guide

This is invaluable. It has all sorts of drug info, dosing info, color pictures to ID, precautions, mixing info, special notes for children/pregnant/elderly, and info on generics.


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## mrcuddles (Oct 9, 2012)

I don't no if u wanna get a hold of some anti fungal cream just in case if you can't take a shower and get a jock itch or trench foot


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## rynophiliac (Nov 19, 2012)

Padre said:


> The dates are the dates I acquired each item, not their expiration. Aside from antibiotics I am also concerned about drugs for the gut, as I know that dysentery, diarrhea and the like are major issues when you are without modern water treatment and medical care.


Just an FYI - loperamide and Imodium are the same thing, its actually an opiate believe it or not but it only effects the gut. If you want something stronger there is lomitol but you need an Rx


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

a PDR is a good source of info:

http://www.amazon.com/Physicians-De..._1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353560303&sr=8-1&keywords=pdr


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## StillStanding (Jan 24, 2009)

Whoisjohngall said:


> Looks like you got a nice kit there. I am new to this forum (first post, in fact) and I am an emergency NP and former paramedic and Navy corpsman. Here are my suggestions:


Excellent first post. There are several nuggets of wisdom here I will repeat:

1) Having access to antihistamines can be life-saving. As pointed out, a combination of H1 (Benadryl) and H2 (Tagamet) should always be on hand

2) Basic medications like Tylenol and Alleve (or Motrin) are important for fever control as well as for keeping people mobile and active after an injury

3) Most people with at least some medical background can benefit from having several courses of antibiotics on hand for any emergencies that cut off access to medical care.


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## miketm (Jan 25, 2013)

Get a PDR, for adults and peds.......DO NOT TAKE ANY ADVICE OFF THE INTERNET WITHOUT CONFIRMING..........Each patient is physiologically different and cannot be assessed over the internet.


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