# Sign a petition on Change.org



## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I have never seen anything like this on the forum, and I have no idea if it is allowable. I am sure I will find out if it is not.

A woman in my neighborhood facebook group posted this story. It could be you and it could be me. She is looking for 200 signatures and is 78 short now.

I have copied and pasted the meat of the story, but ultimately, if you want to participate and support this person in getting Bank of American to produce the title to her home, you will need to go to the link to sign the petition.



> Dear Neighbors, Please follow this link to read, then sign, my petition to compel Bank Of America to produce title to my home. I have battled, first Countrywide then BofA, since 2007 to prove that they do not own my mortgage. I need your help to bring them to the table once and for all.
> 
> Then, spread the word. I would greatly appreciate it if you would forward this email with a personal note to your e-list, your social groups, church or any others who may have an interest asking for additional petition support in my quest. Thank you all in advance for your considerations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/bri...um=email&utm_campaign=petition_message_notice



> Brian Moynihan, President & CEO Bank of America100 N. Tryon St. Charlotte, NC 28255: BofA does not own my mortgage. Please unwind the FHA claim on my property. I deserve control of my home again.
> 
> Petitioning Brian Moynihan, President & CEO Bank of America 100 N. Tryon St. Charlotte, NC 28255 2
> 
> ...


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

It sounds a little hokey to me. My mortgage was with Countrywide, and when they sold to BOA, my FHA mortgage servicing transferred with it. There is nothing illeagle about it. If it is FHA, it ia government mortgage anyway. They lady could easily have a title search done to see what is against her title and how it is vested. A lot of counties on Colorado have their data bases online, so she could look it up herself from home if that were the case. If not, any lien filed against her property would be public, and she could simply search it herself at the recorder's office.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I'm with redhorse, seems a little fishy. Nowhere does it contend that the homeowner paid off the house or that the amount the bank says she owes is incorrect. She went to refinance it & somehow became convinced no one owned the original mortgage? Or she doesn't know who owns the mortgage? Look it up at the county tax office, they'll have copies of everything. Perhaps I just haven't had enough coffee this morning


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm also uncertain how having 200 signatures on a website is going to change her situation or clarify things for her? I don't know what 200 signatures would even mean the Bank of America. Seems there was an anti-BoA campaign about their issues with the Firearms industry that had tens of thousands of signatures and they still didn't care.


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Just to elaborate, I worked in title for several years before becomeing a mortgage underwriter. 

BOA can not produce a 'title' in anyway shape or form. They could get a title policy/search, but then so can the borrower. Anyone can for that matter since it is all public record. Title in real estate is not the same as a vehicle title. 

Your Deed (what most people consider to be their title) only lists how the property is vested, IE who's name the house is in. The bank will never be listed as a vested entity unless there was a forclosure. They file a mortgage lien against the property, but that doesn't mean the bank 'owns' the property, unless of course you fail to make your payments as agreed in the terms of your mortgage/note.

And Sentry is right, I can't see how 200 signatures even warrents a blip on BOA's radar. Their mortgage center alone has over 10,000 employees.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

I love the collective wisdom in the Prepared Society community. Thank you! I am curious about what others have to say. Maybe someone can speak to the other side of this.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I have read a bit about this and bought a property in 2005.

Her mortgage might have been sold into the MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration System) system to avoid having to file paperwork with the local counties each time it was transferred. Yes, if you go to your local courthouse you 'should' be able to see who bought the mortgage. But, in the financial uproar of the days that cost a filing fee each time. With the 'bundling' of 'mortgage backed securities' sold to investors this was a cumbersome process. The banks created a system where they could transfer title to an entity, MERS, and then be free to bundle or sell to whomever, whenever needed. True, bank A might have sold you the original mortgage but they sold to the entity MERS. You still might make payments to bank A but no telling where that money goes. MERS is the official title holder but no telling which bank OR HOW MANY BANKS claimed possession of that title. When it comes time to repossess (which they counted on!) any bank in that bundled security group could lay claim to the actual mortgage. Companies were setup to create 'new' old titles which claimed the actual title to the property. This is because the trail of ownership of title no longer existed, it went through many hands already. Remember the 'robo signing' thing? This was transferring title from MERS to an actual bank or entity so they could foreclose. There was no 'go to the courthouse to see what bank owned your title' it was sold to MERS.

A scam, yes. It is like 'paper PM's'. One ounce of gold can be sold to many investors. As long as not all of them want to take physical ownership at the same time the system works great!


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Even if it went to MERS, the original lien is still on the property. You can not create a new 'title policy' unless someone at the title company that issues the title insurace was getting paid off. On top of that, they would have to have someone at the recorders office in on it to fake the original mortgage as being paid off or never exsisting in the first place, then record a new mortgage in its stead. Just because a mortgage is transfered to another entity does not mean that the old on dissapears. It must be paid off first and recorded as such. MERS is just a way to keep track of it. If it was transfered to MERS, your title policy would state something along the lines of 

Deed of trust, executed by Woody in favor of Countrywide on 12/18/2013, recorded 12/20/2013 in the official records book 1 page5 in the original principle sum of $300,000, of the public records of PS County, North Carolina, transferred to MERS on 12/21/2013.

The original mortgage CAN NOT go away even if it changes hands. If not, the title company is on the hook, and the borrower with the issue that purchased their property with a clear title can claim the title insurance that she should have gotten have when taking out the mortgage.

Now, say they somehow managed to get a phony mortgage recorded against the property. The old one never goes away until a release is also recorded when the borrower pays it off, either with a refinance, or the mortgage is paid off outright. No release, it is still on there. The other bank is not going to get any money because they are not in first lien position. The senior lien is the oldest lien on the property, and all mortgage companies require that title guarentee first lien position. Again, if it was phoney and they somehow got a fake mortgage recorded and dated prior to the original Countrywide mortgage, the title company is on the hook again. At least until they can prove that their original title policy was correct, and the new one issued is fake. They do hold on to those records. Someone at the recorders office would also be in big doo doo.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

These type of claims, that 'I paid my mortgage every month and they are trying to foreclose', etc...
1) how did they get there from where they were
2) where are the statements EVERY month sent to the home--principal, interest, homeowner proof, etc.:dunno:
I have every monthly statement since I moved here and I was a Countrywide customer in 2007 till 2008 when they sold my mortgage to BofA.
I just don't get how a judge can not tell by my 72+ statements I have been paying for 6 years??:scratch

Another reason I have paper statements delivered. I do not one thing online but buy vitamins from Puritypride.com.
No online banking, no online payments ---evah!!


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

There have been instances of mortgage screw-ups, but they are rare. Many mortgages change hands at some point during the life of the mortgage. It is possible that this individual has a legitimate beef, but if so, they should take it to court where it will get resolved.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

JayJay said:


> Another reason I have paper statements delivered. I do not one thing online but buy vitamins from Puritypride.com.
> No online banking, no online payments ---evah!!


I am with you. Just asking for trouble and a hacker.

People act like there is something wrong with me. My credit union was leaning harder and harder about everyone having online banking. FINALLY, they were going to charge for paper statements. I caved, tried to create an account and the password required was so obtuse I was NEVER going to see an online statement. I could never access my account. 

I called and left a message and thanked them for making sure I was never going to see a statement again because I created their online account with a password that was THEIRS, not mine. They called me back and said they closed my online information and would continue with paper statements. And, they are not charging me for them!

When I hear about accounts being hacked, I am always waiting for peoples accounts to be emptied and the banks just wringing their hands, saying there is nothing they can do.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

redhorse said:


> Even if it went to MERS, the original lien is still on the property. You can not create a new 'title policy' unless someone at the title company that issues the title insurace was getting paid off. On top of that, they would have to have someone at the recorders office in on it to fake the original mortgage as being paid off or never exsisting in the first place, then record a new mortgage in its stead. Just because a mortgage is transfered to another entity does not mean that the old on dissapears. It must be paid off first and recorded as such. MERS is just a way to keep track of it. If it was transfered to MERS, your title policy would state something along the lines of
> 
> Deed of trust, executed by Woody in favor of Countrywide on 12/18/2013, recorded 12/20/2013 in the official records book 1 page5 in the original principle sum of $300,000, of the public records of PS County, North Carolina, transferred to MERS on 12/21/2013.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I do not claim to be well versed in how mortgages and this stuff works. Only from what I have read about how all this took place.

In my case I applied for a mortgage from a mom & pop agency. None of the big banks would even consider a note for less than $100,000 back in 2005. I had to change the status of it from personal property (my home once had a license plate and was registered with the NC DMV) to real property. Back a few years ago they retired and sold my mortgage to a small bank in another NC town. I got a letter stating this and a new payment book with their name on it. Terms were the same, just a transfer of title/lienholder. This was registered at the county office, I checked. As I understood it from the original folks, they got paid off for the loan and were no longer involved in the transaction.

As I understood the MERS system it is similar. An entity, MERS, buys the original mortgage, registers title to themselves and is the lien/title holder. The original lender still appears on the county records but no longer has a lien against the property as it has changed hands. Now they would be able to 'sell' the note to bank A who could sell it to bank B without having to file paperwork in the local county office. The entity MERS would promise to pay, or transfer payments to bank A. Bank A now can claim this as an asset on their books and make loans using that as their 'reserve'. MERS is still the registered title holder at the county office, they are just avoiding multiple filing fees. When bank A 'sells' the loan to bank B, they still have it on their books as an asset, bank B can now also claim it as an asset because they 'bought' the title from Bank A.

Then came the bundling. Bank A takes 100 mortgages at a time and sells them to bank C. Bank C is looking fat because now they have some 'mortgage backed securities' as an asset. Bank A still has them also on their books as a loan to bank C.

What I thought took place is Bank A sold a single mortgage multiple times when creating bundles. There really was no paper trail because the actual title was registered to the entity MERS. No paper traded hands, only promises to pay. Who really know what mortgages they were buying, they didn't seem to care. They were only transactions in the books. Yes, it might have read as 1313 Mocking Bird Lane but who checked to see if bank D also bought that mortgage? Bank D was happy as a clam at high tide with their mortgage package!

Is that horribly incorrect on my part?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

I forgot the ending!!!

So, the loan goes into default. Bank A, C and D all have the property on their books. But, the title is registered to the entity MERS, not an actual institution. MERS cannot foreclose as it has no power to, it is only a registry system. So, they have to create a paper trail to show that one of the banks actually has the title/lien on the property. That is fraudulent as there is no clear paper trail to prove ownership. They had to make up or create a paper trail so they could serve papers and foreclose.

Re-reading above I want to make a point clearer, I think it may be a case of too much of a good thing on my end tonight. :cheers:

MERS didn't actually buy the mortgage note. Banks A does but REGISTERS it with MERS. Bank A is in the MERS system as the owner but not in any paperwork at the county office. Banks C and D may be in the system also, that I do not know. As I understood it, there is no record kept by property, like would be at the county office. That is where the multiple selling of a single property took place. 1313 Mocking Bird Lane could be in there multiple times, it was tracked by bank not property. Title number? MERS created its own system of tracking.


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## JayJay (Nov 23, 2010)

Woody--the story I got (because I am Bof A now, I researched as best I could)was when Bank A sold to Bank C, some idiot deleted the most crucial paperwork :ignore:and caused this problem of lost liens?
Or that was the story the establishment WANTED to get out.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

JayJay said:


> Woody--the story I got (because I am Bof A now, I researched as best I could)was when Bank A sold to Bank C, some idiot deleted the most crucial paperwork :ignore:and caused this problem of lost liens?
> Or that was the story the establishment WANTED to get out.


Let's look at that from a banking standpoint. Someone randomly deleted an account. Could it happen, SURE! Stuff like that happens all the time, I was the one to deal and fix the issue. Not with banks, but with other financial institutions. BUT! We got audited one a year, more often internally. Internally they were ruthless, external auditors (SOX) were morons.

Say you are a bank teller, you need to cash your drawer out every shift. What happens if you are even $1 off? Recount. Then they go back through your drawer and check your individual transactions. You are there until they find it.


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## VoorTrekker (Oct 7, 2012)

So who owns the land and the buildings on the land?

If no one has a land title, land patent or land grant, who owns it?

I believe it is the state, the State and the "Office."

A deed is just a tenant document, the deed has very little legal standing. A land title is what people were issued and registered at the county before the calamity of 1892. When so many mortgages went into default, the banks issued deeds instead of surrendering the land titles.

The banks then disposed of the land titles, or gave them to the States. That investigation is still ongoing since 1898. A deed is not a Title. 

Just like your certificate of title to your car is not the "Title." The Manufacturers Certificate of Origin is the Title and the dealers give that to the State. The State owns your homes and your cars.

Those lending institutions are very corrupt and fraught with fraud. A developer sold $10 million home mortgages in San Jose, CA for non-existent homes! And he got away with it.


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