# surviving before TSHsTF



## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

I was just setting here thinking about the cost of living today, just to live in the house. 4 bucks a gal for heating oil, my 145 BTU furnace burns about 20 gallons a day which cost about 80 dollars a day, then there's Direct TV,eletric, gas for the kit. stove, it must be costing I and most people 100. a day before even eating,starting the autos. It;s really scarey to think about the cost of just surviving a yr, DRs and co-pays,land and school taxes, insurances,food,auto upkeep and gas.
I think we,ll be better off when the SHsTF and everything collapses, then I'll just toss all the bills up in the air and pay the ones that stay up there.


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## JustCliff (May 21, 2011)

I was talking about this with a friend yesterday. She is really feeling the pinch. Her old man half asses work so she is left trying to make ends meet. 
I'm what most would consider comfortable now days and it's starting to get to me. I don't make a lot of money but I've got things paid for. I have already got rid of two project cars in the last month that I know I wont be able to do anything with and am looking at getting rid of a few more. I will probably pull out my small bike from moth ball and get it right so I can save money on gas. I am fortunate that I have a car to drive to work but I know it's a matter of time before they start taxing me for it as income. 
If it wasn't for the Insurance and taxes I have to pay I would like to strike out on my own and work from home. I don't see that anytime in the near future. I really feel for for other folks trying to make it. Welcome to the long slow slide. This is the best way for them to deplete everything we have that is of value.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We have drastically downsized our material possessions. My husband has his truck, I have my car, we have a 4 wheeler(paid for), and a side by side that we use on the farm (not paid for). We have slowly started weaning ourselves from grid dependence but its difficult. My husband has been hurt at work and while he is still working, the tax cuts have hit us hard ($520 a month we are losing) so we have had to prioritize our preps as well. 

I completely agree that in a total grid down, SOME would be better off, but not everyone is prepared. Many people don't carry cash to buy things or even have more than a few days worth of groceries in their home. It's very worrisome.


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## farright (Mar 25, 2010)

its tough my wife supports us since i got hurt 4yrs ago i play mr mom which is nice i do house work and stuff when i can some days i cant even walk wish i could do more our wonderful govt says im not disabled so my wonderful wife that i promised to take care of takes care of me i look at the bills and dont know how she does it grid down would be hard on her and my oldest boy 11 since we use preps alot and cant replenish i dont know how the younger generation does it with their new cars 4 wheelers and other toys when alot of older folks are barely getting by


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

farright said:


> i dont know how the younger generation does it with their new cars 4 wheelers and other toys when alot of older folks are barely getting by


Credit. They own nothing. Sad but true.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

tsrwivey--- completely agree!!! So many of my friends are all 'we bought our house today!' And my first question is always 'how did you save that much cash? 'Oh we got a mortgage through such-such bank' well then darlin' you don't own it; you're paying someone to live there. I OWN my home-no rent, no mortgage, no loan. 

I am a member of Generation X; I'm 28 years old and some might say a member of the 'Entitlement' generation as well. I grew up with my mom being my friend; she is disabled and was always home. I was spoiled by my grandmother and its taken me many years to break my bad habits. My husband and I are the youngest ppl I know who actually own things not bought on credit.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

lotsoflead said:


> I was just setting here thinking about the cost of living today, just to live in the house. 4 bucks a gal for heating oil, my 145 BTU furnace burns about 20 gallons a day which cost about 80 dollars a day, then there's Direct TV,eletric, gas for the kit. stove, it must be costing I and most people 100. a day before even eating,starting the autos. It;s really scarey to think about the cost of just surviving a yr, DRs and co-pays,land and school taxes, insurances,food,auto upkeep and gas.
> I think we,ll be better off when the SHsTF and everything collapses, then I'll just toss all the bills up in the air and pay the ones that stay up there.


What did you do, build a log house and forget to put in the chinking? That is a ridiculous amount of oil to burn in one day.

As for the bills, do like Fred Sanford and put them back in the mailbox... LOL:teehee:


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

My Generation needs to update its out look on money. Almost everything is instant gratification. Want a car? take a loan. Want a video game? Credit Card. College? Same just take a loan. 
I remember looking at those people in the occupy wall-street movement and just shaking my head. Your saying that cooperation's are evil, but your twitting on an I pod, your wearing ****'s, and drinking a triple Latte from Starbucks. Demanding a job that pays well, and isn't at the bottom of the totem poll. We as a society have been handed things for way to long. People aren't willing to put in the time to move up.
My plan is simple, buy land probably with credit when I get back to Texas. Pay it off as quickly as possible. Build a house 15 year fixed. Double up on the payments, maybe even Triple up on the payments get it paid off as quickly as possible. Do that by growing as much of our own food as possible. Try to be as energy independent as possible. 
If I have to I'll extend/reenlist to make it happen. I get most of my financial advice from listening to dave Ramsey

What we have forgotten is you have to sacrifice to succeed, and nothing is free. I'm one of the few people I know actually investing in anything that is long term, or looking further then 2 weeks at my future and the decisions I make now.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

cnsper said:


> What did you do, build a log house and forget to put in the chinking? That is a ridiculous amount of oil to burn in one day.
> 
> As for the bills, do like Fred Sanford and put them back in the mailbox... LOL:teehee:


My 145BTU furnace calls for a 1.10 gal per hr nozzle, I've down sized it to .90 which is a littler less than a gal per hr. when I built this house back in 1975, I built it to ele heat specks at the time so it is faily tight. It's just a big house 7 bed rooms, 2. 1/2 baths, dining, kitchen living heated garage and basement. when it's below 0, this thing can suck up some oil and I have 1700 gal storage so I can get a good price in the summer. we have no problems as unlike most people, we're debt free, but still just the everyday cost of living is getting out of hand. I feel for the people who are in debt and a couple months behind their payments.
oh I replace this furnace and oil water heater in 2004


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

$80/day:eyebulge: that is half a cord of wood!
We are way up in Canada and I wouldn't consider spending anywhere near that on heating, I would find an alternative and put that money to much better use.

We don't have "TV", though we have multiple ways to access the internet and netflix, it is not that we need them it is just that we weigh the costs and the benefits and decide whether it is worth it or not.

Almost everything we do to be prepared also saves us money. The garden, wood and alternative heating, solar energy, livestock, all kinds of reusable materials instead of disposable, all these things help in our goal of living a life we love now, prepare us for disasters, and are good for the planet.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> I was just setting here thinking about the cost of living today, just to live in the house. 4 bucks a gal for heating oil, my 145 BTU furnace burns about 20 gallons a day which cost about 80 dollars a day, then there's Direct TV,eletric, gas for the kit. stove, it must be costing I and most people 100. a day before even eating,starting the autos. It;s really scarey to think about the cost of just surviving a yr, DRs and co-pays,land and school taxes, insurances,food,auto upkeep and gas.
> I think we,ll be better off when the SHsTF and everything collapses, then I'll just toss all the bills up in the air and pay the ones that stay up there.


There is something terribly wrong if you are burning 20 gallons a day. I used to heat a 3000 sq foot house with an ancient oil furnace and we didn't even use 4 gallons per day in the coldest winters.

I don't have tv so no expense there. I don't have a clothes dryer or a diswasher. I am completely debt free and live on a small pension. It can be done and you can live well but you have to look at priorities.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Cabowabo said:


> I get most of my financial advice from listening to dave Ramsey


Dave Ramsey and Larry Burkett are the ones who I learned from. Being debt free is liberating.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

We are looking to move when our lease is up (April) for a few reasons...

With the recent increase in taxes to my DH's paychecks we have to tighten our belts. Before we were more than comfortable but now we are seeing as much as $200 less a check. That can be up to $800 a month. We can meet our bills and save a small bit but we'd rather cut our expenses to save even more.

We have no mortgage but rent. The car is paid for but is on its last legs so a new car is going to be bought in the next year. I have a jar of cash set aside to help with that and add to it every week. We have minimal bills but do have satellite TV so we can get children's programing for Roo. (She is not going to watch Jerry Springer!) I am making cuts to the amount of decor/crap we have and my collections as we really don't need designer vases collecting dust on a bookcase.

Plus I really want to get out of the city. If we could find my DH steady work else where I'm sure I could convince him to move to the middle of nowhere rather than stay in California. I guess I'll have to pester him about submitting a resume to some of the companies in Canada again...


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> $80/day:eyebulge: that is half a cord of wood!
> We are way up in Canada and I wouldn't consider spending anywhere near that on heating, I would find an alternative and put that money to much better use.
> 
> We don't have "TV", though we have multiple ways to access the internet and netflix, it is not that we need them it is just that we weigh the costs and the benefits and decide whether it is worth it or not.
> ...


 I too have wood, I can't burn it because my wife has a nursing home in some of the house, I do sell between 60 and 80 cord every yr.

I wasn't trying to sound like we're starving or anything, if everyone in the world was in the shape that we're in, it would be a great thing, we've been debt free and prepared for hard times for many yrs. there is nothing here that we don't want or really in the world that we couldn't have if we wanted it.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

cowboyhermit said:


> $80/day:eyebulge: that is half a cord of wood!
> We are way up in Canada and I wouldn't consider spending anywhere near that on heating, I would find an alternative and put that money to much better use.
> 
> We don't have "TV", though we have multiple ways to access the internet and netflix, it is not that we need them it is just that we weigh the costs and the benefits and decide whether it is worth it or not.
> ...


double post,, sorry


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## emilysometimes (Oct 6, 2011)

Grimm said:


> We are looking to move when our lease is up (April) for a few reasons...
> 
> We have no mortgage but rent. The car is paid for but is on its last legs so a new car is going to be bought in the next year. I have a jar of cash set aside to help with that and add to it every week. We have minimal bills but do have satellite TV so we can get children's programing for Roo. (She is not going to watch Jerry Springer!) I am making cuts to the amount of decor/crap we have and my collections as we really don't need designer vases collecting dust on a bookcase.
> 
> Plus I really want to get out of the city. If we could find my DH steady work else where I'm sure I could convince him to move to the middle of nowhere rather than stay in California. I guess I'll have to pester him about submitting a resume to some of the companies in Canada again...


Grimm,
For kids' TV we buy DVDs used for our little one. They're only $4 or $5 used and there are no commercials to prompt a case of the "I want thats." You can also get kids' shows off iTunes for pretty cheap. 
Just an idea.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

I get what you are saying about being able to afford it but that kind of thinking goes against my grain. If it works for you that is great. When I look at how much money North America is sending over to oil producing governments that I oppose on moral grounds it makes me look for alternatives. An outdoor wood boiler is one, they are not all as smoky as some would have you believe, especially if you have enough heat storage so that it can simply burn hot for an hour or two a day.
I have a lot of better things to do with money.
Again sorry if this sounds judgmental or pushy, it is really not intended that way.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

kejmack said:


> Dave Ramsey and Larry Burkett are the ones who I learned from. Being debt free is liberating.


For me its not just being debt free. Its that freedom that comes with having an emergency fund, knowing that I can pay cash for a car. I could argue that Dave Ramsey has the heart of a prepper. More so in Money, then in actual preps. But with 3-6 months of expenses put a way, paid for house, cash for a car. I love listening to his pod cast, haven't listened to Larry yet but I'll look him up.


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## PackerBacker (Dec 13, 2012)

Cabowabo said:


> For me its not just being debt free. Its that freedom that comes with having an emergency fund, knowing that I can pay cash for a car. I could argue that Dave Ramsey has the heart of a prepper. More so in Money, then in actual preps. But with 3-6 months of expenses put a way, paid for house, cash for a car. I love listening to his pod cast, haven't listened to Larry yet but I'll look him up.


I wish Dave would to a book or program on prepping, at least food wise.

I agree with him for the most part but 1k put away is pointless if you have less than a weeks worth of food on hand. Which is the case for several Ramsey followers I know,


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

kejmack said:


> There is something terribly wrong if you are burning 20 gallons a day. I used to heat a 3000 sq foot house with an ancient oil furnace and we didn't even use 4 gallons per day in the coldest winters.
> 
> I don't have tv so no expense there. I don't have a clothes dryer or a diswasher. I am completely debt free and live on a small pension. It can be done and you can live well but you have to look at priorities.


 there's nothing wrong with the furnace, as I said above, it's a big house and half of it is used as a nursing home, the heat is always cranked up for the old folks and the oil hot water heater is going 10 hrs seven days a week--Laundry.. I was just thinking out loud in the first post, I'm not really complaining at all, Just thinking about how the poor people are getting by,.If you heat 3000 sqft with an ancient furnace when the temp is down to 0 for a couple weeks, you must have turned it off during the day. I service and sometimes install oil burners and even the new ones aren't that efficient.I've serviced some trailers that only use 6-8 gallons a day, but they have a 0.50 nozzle.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

emilysometimes said:


> Grimm,
> For kids' TV we buy DVDs used for our little one. They're only $4 or $5 used and there are no commercials to prompt a case of the "I want thats." You can also get kids' shows off iTunes for pretty cheap.
> Just an idea.


We are a Disney family. Roo watches Disney Jr. So far there may be small breaks during a show but not for products.

We have an extensive DVD collection for her. Most were mine before I got married and still worked for Disney. The employee store gave great discounts.
Right now Roo is all about the Muppets. We have the DVDs and I am looking to get the Fraggles for her next.

When we move if we can't get satellite we will not get cable. We'll do what we did before Roo was born- watch DVDs or go to the movies. My DH really wants the satellite/cable but if we had to cut it we could without too many withdrawals.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

Grimm said:


> We are a Disney family. Roo watches Disney Jr. So far there may be small breaks during a show but not for products.
> 
> We have an extensive DVD collection for her. Most were mine before I got married and still worked for Disney. The employee store gave great discounts.
> Right now Roo is all about the Muppets. We have the DVDs and I am looking to get the Fraggles for her next.
> ...


All that is necessary is internet. If you want I can message you the sight I use to watch TV shows while I'm overseas. They are updated the day after the tv show came on. Cheaper then Itunes. That and Net-flix, so $8 plus the cost of internet .


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

My house is 2500 square feet and our natural gas bill is 56.00 every month of the year. We are on the average payment plan. And it gets really cold here in the winter with ice and snow. Our electric bill is the same, about 70.00 every month on the average payment plan. Summers here are horrendous.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Cabowabo said:


> All that is necessary is internet. If you want I can message you the sight I use to watch TV shows while I'm overseas. They are updated the day after the tv show came on. Cheaper then Itunes. That and Net-flix, so $8 plus the cost of internet .


Please share that site. When we move we are cutting all the extras but I want to keep up with my favorite shows...


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## ksmama10 (Sep 17, 2012)

Grimm said:


> Please share that site. When we move we are cutting all the extras but I want to keep up with my favorite shows...


Yes! Please share the link with the whole class:wave:


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

Our power bill is usually $80 a month, gas is $20 or so (depending on season and usage; we get a discount). Our BOL has free gas so once we get the cabins built, they are gonna have that for heat and cooking. We don't have TV or a house phone; we use our iPhones for everything.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

On Hulu.com you can watch some of the older shows for free.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

dixiemama said:


> Our power bill is usually $80 a month, gas is $20 or so (depending on season and usage; we get a discount). Our BOL has free gas so once we get the cabins built, they are gonna have that for heat and cooking. We don't have TV or a house phone; we use our iPhones for everything.


Why not use the gas to run generators too?


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

ksmama10 said:


> Yes! Please share the link with the whole class:wave:


I'll message it to you. I don't want to share it publicly because some might view it as a copy right violation.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Cabowabo said:


> I'll message it to you. I don't want to share it publicly because some might view it as a copy right violation.


I wonder if this is the same site our friend in the coast guard uses when he ships out.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Cabowabo said:


> I'll message it to you. I don't want to share it publicly because some might view it as a copy right violation.


I would think they would appreciate the free advertising. :dunno:


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

UncleJoe said:


> I would think they would appreciate the free advertising. :dunno:


My worry is that some may consider it copy right infringement. My worry is by posting the site, the gov may shut it down. Many of my friends use this site and I have personally used it. I don't want it to get shut down as I don't have access to American tv overseas.

Hopefully I'm breaking no rules...


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We're saving up for one. When we built the house we got just enough to get in the house and have slowly added on. We hope to have on by the fall.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

I'm pretty sure the site Cabowabo is talking about is the same ones my sons use. It does violate copyright laws. LOL But I'd say about half the military uses it. When my son was in Iraq, the Iraqis would come around and sell movies that were still in the theaters here for $5 American.


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