# Education and been Prepared.



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Been prepared is not only having guns and ammo is having a education or skill that can earn you money and a good future, our world is changing machines are taking over many jobs ,we need people to fix those machines ,vehicles need fixing ,pipes need plumbers ,wires need electricians ,teeth need dentist ,our elders need care ,our children need child care professionals ,etc. And haven`t you notice that in many fields today those workers are from other countries, my child's medical campus is full of kids from other countries ,in all sorts of training .Do to money issues many school districts have eliminated basic job skill teachings ;wood shop ,welding/metal shop ,carpentry ,homemaking ,while in Germany is primal education ,trade schools are like college or apprentice programs ; Dual vocational training system is called ,and it works ,Germany has a well train and pay work force ,even on the Wall Street Journal U.S. Companies Turn to German Training Model to Fill Jobs Gap article https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-companies-turn-to-german-training-model-to-fill-jobs-gap-1474911069 ,and on PBS Trump, Merkel talk job training ; http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/trump-merkel-talk-job-training/ ,Our own DOLabor offers opportunities ; https://www.dol.gov/featured/apprenticeship , our kids may not all be doctors or scientist but there are other jobs out there that need to be fill and why not ,if kids from other nations take advantage of this opportunities why not our kids.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Not all parents have the money to pay for a out of town education ,local/state schools offer great education too ,but not all kids like a long schooling or are up to task of learning a professional trade ,maybe the kids are good with their hands or like to help people ,some like my daughter are very shy they like to work in a small office probably alone ,there are many trades out there ,and many test to see what your child`s mental capacity or potential may be towards a carrier ,maybe they would like to take this test.
Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB).
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/asvab/
or.
http://www.creativeorgdesign.com/tests_page.php?id=165
or.
http://www.oprah.com/omagazine/Aptitude-Tests-Career-Assessment
You never know till you try but the key here is to help the child or the young adult who may be looking for a job get a better one with the proper training.
USD of Labor Job Statistics.
https://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_104.htm
Don`t let somebody else get the better jobs.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Just to touch on the education part....

It's "being prepared" not "been prepared". 

No offence meant. Just poking fun


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Whatever happened to the kid paying for their own education! Every time I hear a parent say they can't afford sending their kids to higher education, whether it's a tech school or a academic school I say so what, if the kid wants it bad enough they will find a way to pay for it themselves. If they are not dedicated to and driven to get a higher education then they will not take serious any education they get. This attitude will only follow them the rest of their life's.

There are kids that work part time and even full time and still go to school. It's great training and conditioning for what life really as in store for them instead of having some one support them and come to their rescue every time they need help.

A good parent will demand their kids be responsible and pay their own way in life and not suck off of the parents or in a lot of cases the government.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Tweto said:


> Whatever happened to the kid paying for their own education! Every time I hear a parent say they can't afford sending their kids to higher education, whether it's a tech school or a academic school I say so what, if the kid wants it bad enough they will find a way to pay for it themselves. If they are not dedicated to and driven to get a higher education then they will not take serious any education they get. This attitude will only follow them the rest of their life's.
> 
> There are kids that work part time and even full time and still go to school. It's great training and conditioning for what life really as in store for them instead of having some one support them and come to their rescue every time they need help.
> 
> A good parent will demand their kids be responsible and pay their own way in life and not suck off of the parents or in a lot of cases the government.


I agree completely, Son graduated with honors, it took a while but he worked and does not owe a dime to anybody. He is now headed to Austin for his Masters, again paying his way. Got to admire his dedication and determination. If you want it badly enough, there is always a way.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

readytogo said:


> Not all parents have the money to pay for a out of town education ,local/state schools offer great education too ,but not all kids like a long schooling or are up to task of learning a professional trade ,maybe the kids are good with their hands or like to help people ,some like my daughter are very shy they like to work in a small office probably alone ,there are many trades out there ,and many test to see what your child`s mental capacity or potential may be towards a carrier ,maybe they would like to take this test.
> Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB).
> http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/asvab/
> or.
> ...


I must be a bad parent. I didn't send my daughter to college. She went on her own. She paid her own way, and here and there I gave her a little money, and I mean a little. She worked full time while in school, worked hard to get grants and scholarships, paid for most of it, bought older used textbooks (very cheap, almost free this way) and compared them to the current textbooks. She saved HUGE on textbooks. She had a goal of graduating debt free, and while she missed that mark, she was very close to it.

Really, this is the way that many people go to college. I went and had scholarships most of the way. I had little college debt when I graduated, but I also worked 20 hours a week, and received SS survivors benefits (parents deceased) and V.A. benefits from my deceased father's 5 European missions (tours) in WW II. Trust me, if I hadn't taken it on myself, no one would have ever sent me to college from my home.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I was one of these self financed kids that went to college. I worked full time and went to school full time. Not one dime was ever given to me. Because I was paying for it myself, I graduated with almost a perfect 4.0, I was not going to waste my money or pick a college course that was not going to make me money later.

Every time I hear a parent say, but my kid will never get to enjoy the college "experience" if they have to work. The college experience is drinking, drugging, sex, and one party after another. My blood pressure goes through the roof when I hear these things. No wonder we have a huge serious "snowflake" problem now.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Tweto said:


> I was one of these self financed kids that went to college. I worked full time and went to school full time. Not one dime was ever given to me. Because I was paying for it myself, I graduated with almost a perfect 4.0, I was not going to waste my money or pick a college course that was not going to make me money later.
> 
> Every time I hear a parent say, but my kid will never get to enjoy the college "experience" if they have to work. The college experience is drinking, drugging, sex, and one party after another. My blood pressure goes through the roof when I hear these things. No wonder we have a huge serious "snowflake" problem now.


College was one time in my life that God had mercy on me. I was probably the least likely person in my h.s. to go to college, because of the lack of support in all things I had at home. I have been forever grateful for the encouragement I got from someone who saw my plight in life.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

I as a parent give all I can to my kids for an education, they or we as a family may not have fancy electronics or new transportation but whatever they need for education they will get, as long as they put in 100% effort our support is there, we lived at the bottom of the economy ladder but we saved for just those times were real money is used for important purposes, and education is one ,parents today more than ever should support their kids but instead they go into debt on useless material things that end up in the trash latter ,is no wonder there is very little family life left in our society today.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

readytogo said:


> I as a parent give all I can to my kids for an education, they or we as a family may not have fancy electronics or new transportation but whatever they need for education they will get, as long as they put in 100% effort our support is there, we lived at the bottom of the economy ladder but we saved for just those times were real money is used for important purposes, and education is one ,parents today more than ever should support their kids but instead they go into debt on useless material things that end up in the trash latter ,is no wonder there is very little family life left in our society today.


In America, there has been much available in the way of financial aid. The less money you have, the more that is likely available to you.

1. Scholarships--many scholarships are based on your previous grade point average. Not all of them are though. Some are based on how you have already contributed to society--volunteer work, activities and organizations you have been involved with. There are specialized scholarships for certain ethnic groups, or people with certain family histories or memberships in certain organizations. I got one such scholarship because of an organization that my grandmother belonged to. My parents purchased a life insurance policy for me when I was born, through this organization, and then I was a member.

I also received another scholarship because of my faith. I was approached about this scholarship and had to do little to receive it.

My daughter participated as a leader in a summer camp at an inner city church for 4 years, during her h.s. years, and was able to qualify for a particular scholarship because of her involvement with people of color, even though she is white. This scholarship allowed her to go on a trip to Africa with a group from her college, to learn about the roots of African American music. She earned college credit for this class. It was through her university.

My daughter received a large scholarship that she applied specifically for. It was for single women, living on their own, and full time in the work force. Many of the women who receive this scholarship are single mothers. She is not.

2. Grants--There are grants available through some of the same avenues as scholarships.

3. School loans--while I am not big on loans of any sort, there are possibilities for financing college expenses.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

readytogo said:


> I as a parent give all I can to my kids for an education, they or we as a family may not have fancy electronics or new transportation but whatever they need for education they will get, as long as they put in 100% effort our support is there, we lived at the bottom of the economy ladder but we saved for just those times were real money is used for important purposes, and education is one ,parents today more than ever should support their kids but instead they go into debt on useless material things that end up in the trash latter ,is no wonder there is very little family life left in our society today.


All parents think their kid is putting in 100% on the parents money. I worked with kids that had parents that supported them in college. When I got to know them they were graduates and in their 20's working the first real job of their lives. Most had trouble getting to the job on time and when it was 5PM they were the first ones out the door, you could count on them leaving at quitting time. I would have to clean up their messes that they left undone so we could keep the company profitable.

Unfortunately, they had parents that never gave them the experience of being responsible for themselves and to their businesses. I kept track of them through the decades and almost all of the pampered kids ended up bouncing from job to job. They could never find that "special" job that they felt they deserved.

Parents that help their kid through college and think their kid will give it 100% effort are delirious. It's never happened in modern history.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Tweto said:


> All parents think their kid is putting in 100% on the parents money. I worked with kids that had parents that supported them in college. When I got to know them they were graduates and in their 20's working the first real job of their lives. Most had trouble getting to the job on time and when it was 5PM they were the first ones out the door, you good count on them leaving at quitting time. I would have to clean up their messes that they left undone so we could keep the company profitable.
> 
> Unfortunately, they had parents that never gave them the experience of being responsible for themselves and to their businesses. I kept track of them through the decades and almost all of the pampered kids ended up bouncing from job to job. They could never find that "special" job that they felt they deserved.
> 
> Parents that help their kid through college and think their kid will give it 100% effort are delirious. It's never happened in modern history.


As my nice grandmother would often say, "Easy come, easy go." People who have to work and pay for what they have, really do appreciate it even more.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

AdmiralD7S said:


> I beg to differ. My parents helped me through college, and I busted my ass the whole way! I graduated with a 4.0 GPA and then did my masters on my own dime with another 4.0. Now I'm working on my PhD in the evenings (work full time now). Many of my scholastic peers and work colleagues did the same thing. My experience is that there's a sizable but low-visibility group who do put in 100%. We rarely make the news, but that doesn't mean we don't exist. Don't judge everyone based on the most easily observable examples.


Admiral,
Congratulations on working on your PhD! When I was working on my doctorate, I had a big sign over my desk that said "Anything really worth having is worth bleeding for!" (not the best grammar, but still inspirational to me!). I did not have anyone to help me pay for any of my degrees, and I worked my way through two associates, a bachelors, two masters, and a doctorate. Those diplomas mean far more than just the very valuable education I received - they represent blood, sweat, tears, and many long sleepless nights! I think the smile on my face in the attached picture speaks volumes to how much that achievement meant to me. (The picture is what was on the jumbotron in UOP Stadium)

I agree with you that there are many unseen students putting in 100% - they are too busy with the REAL things in life (work, family, bills, study, and living life) to be out there goofing around, partying, protesting, and generally wasting someone else's dime!


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

DrDianaAnderson said:


> Admiral,
> Congratulations on working on your PhD! When I was working on my doctorate, I had a big sign over my desk that said "Anything really worth having is worth bleeding for!" (not the best grammar, but still inspirational to me!). I did not have anyone to help me pay for any of my degrees, and I worked my way through two associates, a bachelors, two masters, and a doctorate. Those diplomas mean far more than just the very valuable education I received - they represent blood, sweat, tears, and many long sleepless nights! I think the smile on my face in the attached picture speaks volumes to how much that achievement meant to me. (The picture is what was on the jumbotron in UOP Stadium)
> 
> I agree with you that there are many unseen students putting in 100% - they are too busy with the REAL things in life (work, family, bills, study, and living life) to be out there goofing around, partying, protesting, and generally wasting someone else's dime!


Congratulations on doing it yourself!!!!!!!!

You are right that anything that you do on your own, whether it be a college degree, personal achievements; such as: athletic trophies, licenses, promotions, etc. are much more appreciated then the awards given to them or financed by other sources.

When you do something 100% by yourself you own it, it's yours, it's apart of you and no one can take it away. To the people that have support, whether it be parents, government, or other sources, theirs always that knowledge that you really didn't do it all by yourself, but had help because you just weren't strong enough to do it yourself.

As in much of what we do money is at least 50% of the societal qualifier to achieve the goal. When I see people climbing Mount Everest, most think, that's impressive to be able to make that climb, what I see as impressive is how they paid for it and how did they get the time off work to do this. The true dedication comes from the mount climber not just doing the physical training but also the work to pay for the trip and the sacrifice from their families and company to let them do it.

When employers are looking at prospective hires, their first question should be how did you pay for your degree, licenses, etc.. Because the person that paid there on way actually put twice as much effort into their degree then the pampered graduates. Because of this the company gets a dedicated and driven employee. The one question a dedicated and driven potential hire will never ask in an interview is "how much vacation do I get".


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

AdmiralD7S said:


> I beg to differ. My parents helped me through college, and I busted my ass the whole way! I graduated with a 4.0 GPA and then did my masters on my own dime with another 4.0. Now I'm working on my PhD in the evenings (work full time now). Many of my scholastic peers and work colleagues did the same thing. My experience is that there's a sizable but low-visibility group who do put in 100%. We rarely make the news, but that doesn't mean we don't exist. Don't judge everyone based on the most easily observable examples.


There are a lot of people like you whose parents helped and WERE successful. You were just as successful with their support and thankful rather than acrimonious of having to try to do it all yourself. It doesn't lessen your achievements. You still did all the work, you just had family support structures. It's how it really should be. Isn't that what we really want for a society? A core family unit that desires to see their future generation improve not only in wealth, but also in happiness and achievements? The idea of you struggling all yourself and you'll develop a deeper appreciation for it is a middle class mentality. The wealthy don't put up financial road blocks in front of their kids. The teach their kids the benefits of wealth and how to manage and protect it...but that doesn't suit the American "pull your self up by the boot straps" narrative. Look at the majority of our highly visible successful people. They come from backgrounds where they had a better start than most. It doesn't detract from their success. Do you think that Chris Gardner wants his kids to have to "earn" his success the same way that he did or do you think that he desires to impart his knowledge or success and see his kids achieve financial independence sooner and enjoy life to a fuller extent.

I know many parents who help in a very advantageous and symbiotic manner. They buy a property close to the college their child is attending and then have then manage the property. They find friends the serve as tenets. They pay the bills, they help with the upkeep, ect. Their kids may or may not take out some educational loans, but their learning life lessons, mgmt, investing strategies, and the parents have a low risk investment that usually does pretty well.

Congrats on everyone's successes here!


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Tweto said:


> To the people that have support, whether it be parents, government, or other sources, theirs always that knowledge that you really didn't do it all by yourself, but had help because you just weren't strong enough to do it yourself.


That's a load of crap.


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## AltNature (Mar 23, 2017)

I told my son if he couldn't earn a scholarship, he probably wasn't college material -even though he is very smart. He didn't. He taught himself computer tech and now sets up networks for computer dialysis clinics. Landed that job before he was 25. Tells me he's glad he did it that way and doesn't have a bunch of student loan debt like everyone else he knows.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

*Education and BEING prepared........*



Tweto said:


> When you do something 100% by yourself you own it, it's yours, it's apart of you and no one can take it away. To the people that have support, whether it be parents, government, or other sources, theirs always that knowledge that you really didn't do it all by yourself, but had help because you just weren't strong enough to do it yourself.


Tweto,
I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. My diplomas are no more valid or special than ones earned by my colleagues who had financial assistance with their education. I knew when I graduated high school that my parents were not in a position to pay for my education, and I made the conscious choice to work and pay my way through school. I wish my parents had been able to help, and I certainly do not want to disparage others who were fortunate enough to have assistance. I do not think having assistance with paying for school is a measure of strength - being able to successfully complete the program and EARN the diploma is the real measure of strength, in my opinion, regardless of who foots the bill!


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I would guess the difference lays in the basic way we have all decided to live our lives. The act of using other peoples money to enhance their professional life is a fairly new ideal of the last 100 years or so, before that you had to have your own money to do it and back then only the financial elite could afford to send there kids to college. 

I was raised around people that borrowed money for everything, their house, their cars, their kids college. Eventually these same people ended up borrowing money for normal daily living expenses. In every case it ended in bankruptcies and in some cases multiple bankruptcies were the creditors were hung out and had to suffer because of one person drive to enhance their life.

These people's kids got their degrees in subjects that will never justified the suffering of the parents or the amount of money needed to send them through school. But of coarse it wasn't the kids money so they picked majors that were guaranteed to never make any money. 

No student paying their own way would pick a major that didn't have a field that has good payback potential and a security factor to it.

I guess it purely a cultural thing, one group decides that debt and owing people something for their help is the way they want to live, constantly in a circle and burden of personal and corporate debt. On the other side of the coin is the group that wants no debt, ether personal of corporate and spends there lives always paying cash for whatever they get in life. Never borrowing for school, cars and even homes.

Their are 2 classes of financial orientated believes and the two shell never agree or meet.


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

And then there's High School counselors who encourage useless out of state colleges and useless degrees. We have 5 children, and I remember speaking with her "advisor" in her last year. She recommended our daughter take a year off and join the peace corp (dangerous) and then go to Oregon state to study something green. Our daughter applied in state and received a regents scholarship (top one, based on academics, not race) and did a 4 yr full ride in biochem. She is now in Pharmacy school.
The counselors and professors are the ones who are nuts.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

AmishHeart said:


> And then there's High School counselors who encourage useless out of state colleges and useless degrees. We have 5 children, and I remember speaking with her "advisor" in her last year. She recommended our daughter take a year off and join the peace corp (dangerous) and then go to Oregon state to study something green. Our daughter applied in state and received a regents scholarship (top one, based on academics, not race) and did a 4 yr full ride in biochem. She is now in Pharmacy school.
> The counselors and professors are the ones who are nuts.


I know two people who have died while serving in the peace corps. You are correct that it can be dangerous. I know a few other people who haven't had problems, but, you never know when you are on foreign soil.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

AmishHeart said:


> And then there's High School counselors who encourage useless out of state colleges and useless degrees. We have 5 children, and I remember speaking with her "advisor" in her last year. She recommended our daughter take a year off and join the peace corp (dangerous) and then go to Oregon state to study something green. Our daughter applied in state and received a regents scholarship (top one, based on academics, not race) and did a 4 yr full ride in biochem. She is now in Pharmacy school.
> The counselors and professors are the ones who are nuts.


When we took our girls out of public school the teachers and counselors were telling the kids they wouldn't get a diploma and wouldn't be able to go to college. These "adults" were lying to the kids and getting them upset because they wanted them to stay in public school. The same school over run with border gangs and drugs that was graduating kids who can't read well enough to pass their written driving test. My oldest is now in college and the youngest is being home schooled.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

weedygarden; there are so many opportunities in America that is a shame many of our kids don`t take them that is why you see so many kids from other countries here ,at schools and working in many fields. My VA hospital is a training center is full of students from other countries ,they pay for the education by working it off ,That`s why I said parents should get more involved in their kids education ,it pays to be prepared ,times are changing quick ,even my nurses at the hospital are taking new courses in the new technologies coming out or they will lose their jobs .


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

weedygarden said:


> I must be a bad parent. I didn't send my daughter to college. She went on her own. She paid her own way, and here and there I gave her a little money, and I mean a little.


I'm living proof it won't kill them. I worked, was married, & had two kids while going to college full time. Twice. No student loans, no government freebies, not a dime from anyone else. Of course, I had no time for staring at a screen, tossing 12 ounces, whining about how mistreated I was, & I'd have gotten my butt kicked out of the nursing program if I'd have told them a needed a few days off to mourn because I didn't get the president I wanted. With all the online classes, it should be easier than ever to work your way through college. All they had in the stone ages was a few courses on video. Taking classes online sure would've made balancing everything a lot easier.


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## drfacefixer (Mar 8, 2013)

Tweto said:


> I would guess the difference lays in the basic way we have all decided to live our lives. The act of using other peoples money to enhance their professional life is a fairly new ideal of the last 100 years or so, before that you had to have your own money to do it and back then only the financial elite could afford to send there kids to college.
> 
> I was raised around people that borrowed money for everything, their house, their cars, their kids college. Eventually these same people ended up borrowing money for normal daily living expenses. In every case it ended in bankruptcies and in some cases multiple bankruptcies were the creditors were hung out and had to suffer because of one person drive to enhance their life.
> 
> ...


I will give you a little hint. Those that learned how to use debt to their advantage have run our country for the last hundred years. They are called business men and women. You don't start companies when you finally have saved up enough operating costs. you finance the capital, you get investors. I know of people in similar situations that you've spoken of. Those that live on credit - but here is the difference. They live like that because they are uneducated about how to benefit using good debt, corporation structuring tax strategy or trusts.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Tweto said:


> When you do something 100% by yourself you own it, it's yours, it's apart of you and no one can take it away. To the people that have support, whether it be parents, government, or other sources, theirs always that knowledge that you really didn't do it all by yourself, but had help because you just weren't strong enough to do it yourself.


Although I worked my way through school, we pay for our kids. (Well we did, one is taking a break & the other is on academic scholarship now). We pay for school on a few conditions: 1) we approve of the degree plan (we're not paying for a degree in basket weaving). 2). They go to a local school if possible. 3) They live at home or they pay their own living expenses. 4) no grades below a 'B'.

All kids left the nest before age 19 & have paid for their own living expenses since then. The kid still in school is 22, married, 7 months pregnant with their second kid, is in the medical lab program, & works in a lab part time. She gets straight A's & her classes are not easy. Very few folks get an A in Organic Chemistry II. They bought their own home with no help two years ago, they were both 20yrs old & had a kid. She's on a full academic scholarship now & they are completely financially independent now. They even pay for their own health insurance. We were paying for books, tuition, gas, car, health insurance, & cell phone (no data plans). Their cars were paid for with cash. My kids work hard, are not entitled, manage money well, could've paid for school themselves ( technically academic scholarship is earning it). When she graduates, she'll have her husband, sisters, professor, & us to thank for helping her. That's a good thing.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

tsrwivey said:


> Although I worked my way through school, we pay for our kids. (Well we did, one is taking a break & the other is on academic scholarship now). We pay for school on a few conditions: 1) we approve of the degree plan (we're not paying for a degree in basket weaving). 2). They go to a local school if possible. 3) They live at home or they pay their own living expenses. 4) no grades below a 'B'.
> 
> All kids left the nest before age 19 & have paid for their own living expenses since then. The kid still in school is 22, married, 7 months pregnant with their second kid, is in the medical lab program, & works in a lab part time. She gets straight A's & her classes are not easy. Very few folks get an A in Organic Chemistry II. They bought their own home with no help two years ago, they were both 20yrs old & had a kid. She's on a full academic scholarship now & they are completely financially independent now. They even pay for their own health insurance. We were paying for books, tuition, gas, car, health insurance, & cell phone (no data plans). Their cars were paid for with cash. My kids work hard, are not entitled, manage money well, could've paid for school themselves ( technically academic scholarship is earning it). When she graduates, she'll have her husband, sisters, professor, & us to thank for helping her. That's a good thing.


Great job on raising strong, independent children. I wish more parents followed your example.


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