# Preparedness and Survival Guide for beginners



## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

Found this book on Amazon. For the ones doing this since forever probably not much in there, but the price is right. I havent read it yet but will be.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A...+Beginners&dpPl=1&dpID=511oMkQAuIL&ref=plSrch


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

There's a thread that I can't find that has free or cheap deals. Does anyone remember it? Posts like this should go in that thread.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

Didnt know there was such a thread. Mods if you find that thread, you can you move this one there


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Gee....I thought "preparedness survival guide for beginners" was a new thread where folks like us that have been doing this a while list what we consider the basic starting points to prepping.

I was going to suggest digging an out house in the back yard, you know, for practice. (It's where I would start.) :dunno:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

*Well, why not?*



Starcreek said:


> Gee....I thought "preparedness survival guide for beginners" was a new thread where folks like us that have been doing this a while list what we consider the basic starting points to prepping. I was going to suggest digging an out house in the back yard, you know, for practice. (It's where I would start.) :dunno:


This might be a good place for turning the thread into exactly what the title suggests. The couple who are using my camper showed up around 5 PM tonight with a gigantic platter of spaghetti and a huge bowl of salad. Well, we got to talking and it turned into a 3-3 1/2 hour discussion about the SHTF possibilities, and come to find out the guy and his wife are both "country folk," originally from Tennessee. Anyway, he asked me what would be the "minimum" a couple would need, over the space of maybe 4-5 years, except for a mortgage, figuring 15-20 for that, to buy a piece of property, and put some kind of reasonable dwelling on it (two bdrm, 1 bath, living room, kitchen, pantry, storage room), with a connected garage with storage areas "upstairs."
Then, basically he wanted to know what the "minimum" needs would be for a period of 5 years of SHTF/reorganization after SHTF, and the best ways to "defend your place" during those 5 years.

He doesn't have a handgun, but does have a an old Winchester 30-30 he uses for deer hunting, and an old .22 Remington he uses for squirrels, groundhogs, etc. No shotgun.

So basically, he's asking, "How do I do this, from scratch, the best and cheapest way possible?" And I'm thinking this thread would be perfect for providing him with the answers! Y'all know much more about this "prepping" than I do, except maybe the property angle, I could handle that easy enough. But for the most part, I am a "buyer," not a "prepper," and I am smart enough to know that......you all could give him a lot better advice that I can....what I actually "know," you could put in a frickin' thimble and have room left over!

So, how about it, want to give them a hand?

Here is the "budget situation," that needs to be kept in mind: He is working at Burger King, Assistant Manager, 6 AM-2PM, and he's getting $12/hr....AFTER taxes, his "take home" is around $700-720 every two weeks. His wife just scored a job at Wally World Friday, as an office secretary, and she's getting $10.50/hr, which, AFTER taxes, is going to give her a "take home" of around $620-630 every two weeks. So, they will have a combined "take home," now that she is working, too, of around $1320-1350 every two weeks. Right now, they are living in my camper in an RV Park for $350/month, which INCLUDES water, sewage, electric, satellite TV and wi-fi. They spend about another $200 a month on gasoline, personal items, etc., and around $350 or so on groceries, and roughly $180 on insurance....so basically, their "living expenses" right now are running about $1080 a month, just call it $1100. That's gonna give them roughly $1500 a month to use for getting their new place set up. Should be doable, I would think. They have decent credit, and could finance a pretty good "home," they'd just have to save up for a few months to make a decent down payment. Their car, well, pickup truck, is paid for. I told them they could use the camper as long as they wanted, and suggested they start working on getting a piece of property (20 acres minimum), and figuring out what kind of "dwelling" they wanted to go with, and how much the septic tank and well would run them.

After all, the absolute "minimum set-up" is "property, residence, septic tank, well," and then go on from there. I can handle the "property thing," as I still have a number of contacts, and I can likely come up with 20 acres for them out in the boonies for around $10,000, maybe even less.....semi-wooded land is plentiful in lower Alabama and lower Mississippi, and the paper companies are selling off thousands of acres. A 15 year mortgage on the land would only run them around $50 a month, with a $2,000 down payment. The "land" is not gonna be a problem.

So, what do y'all think? Type of "dwelling," supplies, weapons, defensive measures, garden, off-grid power (though they will be on the grid normally), emergency food supplies, stored vitamins/minerals/protein supplements, all-electric, or combination electric/propane......whatever comes to mind, keeping in mind their budget.

After sitting down and talking with both of them for a few hours, I gotta say they are pretty good people, and it ain't gonna hurt my feelings to give 'em a hand. They are pretty serious about life, realistic about finances, and they aren't a couple of dope-heads.....and now that both of them are employed, they are gonna have a pretty decent budget to work with, and they both want something "permanent," - - they don't want to get back into renting a mobile home, or regular home - - they want to OWN something! They may, or may not, join the Forum....they aren't much for "socializing," and they are really kind of "shy." (Embarrassed as hell just because they had to ask for help from the Church when they got burned out.) So, I don't know, maybe they'll join the Forum, maybe not. I suggested it, but I'm not gonna "push 'em" - - some people just aren't "joiners." :wave:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> First, they need an emergency fund. I'd say five grand and twice that would be better. They say bad luck runs in threes. Whatever, they have the same odds of having something bad happen today as they did the day of the fire. *This is an emergency fund not a buffer, not something to dip into. This is money you put away and forget about.* Ideally, there is enough cash to pay all your expenses for at least eight months.


Good point...I'll pass it along. Never hurts to have a bit "put away."


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Caribou said:


> First, they need an emergency fund. I'd say five grand and twice that would be better. They say bad luck runs in threes. Whatever, they have the same odds of having something bad happen today as they did the day of the fire.
> 
> This is an emergency fund not a buffer, not something to dip into. This is money you put away and forget about. Ideally, there is enough cash to pay all your expenses for at least eight months.


You know, when somebody is living paycheck to paycheck, that's just not do-able. There are a lot of other things, though, that people can do to start -- like pick up a few extra cans of vegetables to tuck back every time they buy groceries, or plant a garden....


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

An emergency fund is essential. When you have an emergency fund anything that goes wrong is a set back, when you don't everything that goes wrong has the potential for being a catastrophe. Back when I was a rookie officer with lots of bills to pay and a much smaller paycheck I still managed to take 10% of the top for God and 10% for my emergency fund. I also put away my overtime checks and any other money that came my way. Did not take long to have 3 months salary sitting in an account. Sometimes it was hard to put that money into savings, really hard. But then something would go wrong, like a bad tire or a medical bill and I was able to just cover it and get back to saving. Even my oldest and her husband who are just starting out put money into their emergency fund every month.

However I agree that every extra prep counts. Shop for deals and clearance items. Pick up those extra bags of dehydrated soup when they are 3 for $5. Grab that bottle of "expired" Ibuprofen at Walmart that is 75% off. Pick up a few extra boxes of 30-30 and .22lr when you can (it adds up). Go to rummage sales and look for deals. And let's not forget that are prepper freebies out there. Condiments and utensils are available at gas stations and fast food places, hard candies and mints sit on counters everywhere, some box stores offer free twine or rope in their loading areas, look at those same rummage sales for freebie boxes or check out places like freecycle.com, and don't be afraid to look inside a dumpster or refuse pile. Water jugs and 5 gallon pails get thrown away every day. Many preppers have started with nothing and limited resources but turned it into something incredible.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

My 32-year-old son is notorious for picking up stuff on the side of the road. He's found hiking shoes for his wife, a water cooler, a backpack that contained some good-quality carabiners, and a bolt-on-the-wall animal feeder. Sometimes it pays to stop and look at something on the shoulder of the highway that looks like more than just trash.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Starcreek I too pick stuff up from the side of the road hell my father did the same I have found tool boxes ,knifes ,shovels ,machetes ,picks ,hell I have a wheel barrow ,a propane BBQ .People just dump or loose stuff ,my lawn mower has new wheels from one in the trash ,my stove has burners from one dump by a near neighbor that now regrets dumping it ,oh well life goes on.


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## Flight1630 (Jan 4, 2017)

I should have made this the question of the week lol.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Starcreek said:


> You know, when somebody is living paycheck to paycheck, that's just not do-able. There are a lot of other things, though, that people can do to start -- like pick up a few extra cans of vegetables to tuck back every time they buy groceries, or plant a garden....


I don't know, Starcreek, they are figuring on a 5-year time period to get the land, build the home, and a 15 year "mortgage period," and they have about $1500 a month to work with...putting back just a hundred dollars a month would give them an emergency fund of $6,000. The only real "biggies" they are going to have "early on" are the down payments on land and whatever type of home they decide on. If they go with a "log home kit," they can get a decent 2 bdrm/1 bath home for $19,000 - $25,000 + cost of land, septic tank, well, and grid connection. I can find 'em 20 acres for $10,000 or less, septic tank, well, power company connection, call the total around $35,000 - $40,000, $29-35 of which is land/home....say they do 15 year financing with a total of $5,000 down, $24-31 financed, with interest, call it $2400 a year, max.....they can do $200 a month payments easy enough. Will just take 'em a few months to save up the down payment. It looks like it might be doable.

Now, if something came up on down the line....loss of job, or whatever, yes, that would change the picture, but I'm thinking maybe insurance could be had to cover that possibility (not sure how much the insurance would cost, though).


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Starcreek said:


> You know, when somebody is living paycheck to paycheck, that's just not do-able. There are a lot of other things, though, that people can do to start -- like pick up a few extra cans of vegetables to tuck back every time they buy groceries, or plant a garden....


It is possible. It won't happen quickly but it can be done. I started right out of high school. I graduated and was kicked out of the group home I was in. With my first job I was living on $400 a month. When I paid for anything I used only bills. Any change went into a bucket. After about a year I had $500 in that bucket. Used part of it to buy a safe to keep the rest in. $500 isn't a lot now but back then it was my guarantee that I'd never be hungry again.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Caribou said:


> First, they need an emergency fund. I'd say five grand and twice that would be better. They say bad luck runs in threes. Whatever, they have the same odds of having something bad happen today as they did the day of the fire.
> 
> This is an emergency fund not a buffer, not something to dip into. This is money you put away and forget about. Ideally, there is enough cash to pay all your expenses for at least eight months.


What Caribou posted+1


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> Let's say they are serious for one year. Every four months they put away $5000 and another $1000 in cash or preps. They will probably have some sort of a raise in that time frame but that is just extra and we won't worry about that now. At the end of the first year they have $5000 in their emergency fund and $10,000 cash. Plunk down the cash on the land and have no mortgage. At some point purchase the trailer. Move the trailer onto the property and dig an outhouse. Now with raises and no lot rent you have $2000/mo. Drill a well and then put in a septic system. Now your trailer has all the amenities. At the end of year two you are well along on the house with no debt. Friends of mine lived in a small travel trailer and did just this. Their daughter slept in a beer box because there was no room for anything else. They bought a kit house and put it up by their own sweat, and some help from friends.


That would be really pushing it! May be doable, but for safety net, I think doing that over a 2 yr period might be better....don't forget, they have to pay for the septic tank and well, too. He's coming over this weekend, we'll have a lot to talk about! Would be nice to see 'em kill that mortgage, though....save a fair piece of interest, even on a short term 15 yr mortgage. :2thumb:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Pessimistic2 said:


> That would be really pushing it! May be doable, but for safety net, I think doing that over a 2 yr period might be better....don't forget, they have to pay for the septic tank and well, too. He's coming over this weekend, we'll have a lot to talk about! Would be nice to see 'em kill that mortgage, though....save a fair piece of interest, even on a short term 15 yr mortgage. :2thumb:


Low income, so interest is a definite curse, no silver lining at all. Tax write off next to nothing. Pay off mortgage, is my choice. just my 2 cents.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> Low income, so interest is a definite curse, no silver lining at all. Tax write off next to nothing. Pay off mortgage, is my choice. just my 2 cents.


Yeah, I'd like to see them have the *land* with no mortgage at all. The *"home"* will be a different story, but they have decent credit ratings, never missed a payment, been with the same bank for over 6 years. (Yeah, I exercised my perks as a Board member of the bank I own a chunk of, and I have their banking history from day one! ) (Also have their criminal records...two traffic tickets for speeding....and a copy of their Equifax report......and basically a data sheet of their life history since they were born.....and yes, I am a nosy old b45327d! )

Anyway, they can get a pretty nice 2 bdrm, 1 bath, log home kit (almost everything included, they'll need toilet, sinks, though), for between $19,000 & $25,000.....and they'll have to finance that, but on a 15 yr mortgage, with a $20% down payment, that shouldn't be a problem. Even with interest, the payments shouldn't be more than $120 a month, the large down payment really cuts down on the mortgage payments. They can always "pay down" the mortgage if they want. I'm trying to get them a "land/home package" they'll like (after all, it's THEIR home), at a cost they can afford, without "pushing it too hard," as working for Booger King and Wally World, *who knows what may happen down the line!!* Septic tank and well are gonna run no more than $5,000 max, and shouldn't cost 'em a whole lot to have Alabama Power run a line in to 'em. If they have to bulldoze a driveway, that's just a matter of a days rental of a small 'dozer....don't take long to do a driveway.

Once they are actually *IN* their new home, the electric is probably gonna run them around $150-$180, trash pickup around $50, and if they have DishTV/Mediacom Wi-Fi that's gonna run 'em about $100 a month. No water/sewage bill....so their "regular monthly bills," mortgage and all, should be around $500 or so, plus their "personal expenses," groceries $400 max, insurance, gas/oil, etc., call the whole shebang around $1300-$1500. They're bringing in over $2500 after taxes, so they oughtta be in pretty good shape.

He's coming over this weekend, and we're gonna go over the log home designs and plans/costs.....*they do want a log home,* and log homes are a hell of a lot less expensive than building, oh, say, a ranch style, brick home! The "land" is not gonna be a problem....for one thing, the paper companies are selling off thousands of acres in lower Alabama and lower Mississippi, and there are also a lot of "old farms" up for grabs. I do about half my banking through Wells Fargo, which despite all the controversy, is no worse than most large banks, and about half through the little "country bank" I own a chunk of.....push comes to shove, if they apply for their mortgage through the "country bank," I can probably ramrod it through, though that shouldn't be necessary....they have good credit ratings, they've never missed a payment on anything, and banks like to see people making 20% down payments anyway.

The "land/home" is gonna be pretty much a done deal as soon as they save up the down payment.....I don't anticipate any problems with that. What they really need to know is the "prepping stuff," what to grow in the garden, what to stockpile (besides those damn MREs), what weapons to acquire, how to get long term storage for vitamins/minerals (I do the "protein powder" thing....mucho vitamins/minerals and it stores forever, but I'm not sure that is the "best way" to do it), animals they might be able to raise and still be working full time at BK & WW, things like that, most of which I know pretty much nothing about!! 

These are pretty good kids, got their heads screwed on right, and are planning out their future......unlike most today who haven't got a clue how they're gonna make it when they hit their 60's or 70's and suddenly realize they are in sheep dip, and ain't got a pot to pee in!! They can use the camper until they get the log home up, that's not a problem....might be kinda cramped until then, but ya do what ya gotta do, *and they're willing to "do it,"* so I figure they'll be OK. :2thumb:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

*Gonna have to do more research!!*

Had an interesting phone conversation today with a guy from Southland Log Homes. Turns out the $18,000+ package (2 bdrm/1 bath) *does not* "include everything," as their literature claims....few little things they left out, that are "extra cost options," *like wiring, doors, and windows!!* An actual "complete package" (not including the slab itself) would be more like $30-$35,000. Still "doable," but does raise the monthly payment rate a bit. Gonna go over all this stuff with them this weekend. As long as both of them are working, they do have a pretty fair amount of "wiggle room." The only thing I don't particularly like is that both "fast food joints & Wally World" are not exactly known for longevity of employment! That's the fly-in-the-ointment!! :dunno:


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> The only thing I don't particularly like is that both "fast food joints & Wally World" are not exactly known for longevity of employment! That's the fly-in-the-ointment!! :dunno:


My FIL has been at walmart for 13 years and my MIL has been there for 9. Most of the fast food and walmart turnovers are people quitting or doing something really stupid and getting fired.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> My FIL has been at walmart for 13 years and my MIL has been there for 9. Most of the fast food and walmart turnovers are people quitting or doing something really stupid and getting fired.


Well, I suppose that's true enough.....but the fast food places are looking to "automate" as much as possible in the next few years now that states are getting goofy on "minimum wage laws." Wally World may be OK, especially as she has an "office job" and isn't working the stock room or custodial crap. Hopefully they'll be OK...they're pretty good kids, serious about life, not some idiotic, moon-faced, Liberal, "want everything provided for them" types.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> I don't know what an office job at Wally World pays but if either leaves these jobs it is likely because they got a better job.


She's getting $10.50/hr to start, supposed to get an "automatic raise" (don't know how much) after 6 months. Some kind of secretarial position in one of the offices....I'll ask her just what it involves. One doesn't ordinarily even think about "office jobs" in connection with Wally World, at least I didn't, but they gotta have office workers just like any other kind of business.....SOMEBODY has to do the "paperwork!!" :scratch


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> I don't know how good that is in your area. My point is that, if she is as good as you think then she will either get promoted or someone will steal her away. Either way she should be making better bucks in a couple of years.


For Alabama, that is pretty good for "starting wages." McDummies new hires get $8.50. She's pretty bright, got a head for figures....understands financing very well. He's no dum-dum, either....wants to start a "custom cabinet shop" to bring in extra money, and from the looks of the cabinets he did at the Church, he knows what he is doing! Gonna do a litle research on the "cabinet market competition" in the area.....if it looks like he can jump in and get some orders, I might just finance that little venture myself, and take my "interest" out in learning how to make cabinets!! I am not a carpenter or cabinet maker, and the only thing I know about a hammer is which end hits the nail! Kinda blew my mind all the different floor plans they have for a small 2 bdrm/1 bath cabin....Jeez, you wouldn't think there'd be THAT MANY ways to arrange 2 bdrms, bath, laundry room, living room, kitchen/dining area, and a pantry! I mean, come on, it's only 6 ROOMs, for Pete's sake!! :scratch


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> The land comes first. I've seen too many beautiful homes set on the wrong property or set improperly on the lot.


Get no argument from me there!! With the paper companies selling off tens of thousands of acres, and all the old farms up for sale, I'm trying to find a semi-wooded chunk, maybe 20 acres, where there is a rise or swale, between the location of the cabin and the highway, so it is not visible from the road. Also gonna be looking at sight lines, water table data, and salable timber on the property, as well as code requirements for the septic tank. But I agree completely, location, location, location!! :2thumb:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Get no argument from me there!! With the paper companies selling off tens of thousands of acres, and all the old farms up for sale, I'm trying to find a semi-wooded chunk, maybe 20 acres, where there is a rise or swale, between the location of the cabin and the highway, so it is not visible from the road. Also gonna be looking at sight lines, water table data, and salable timber on the property, as well as code requirements for the septic tank. But I agree completely, location, location, location!! :2thumb:


As someone (Wizard) said (many times) location, location and location. I was looking at some desert property (50 + acres) and finding the right one is very difficult. Thought I had found the perfect spot (200 acres), until Google Earth showed a taller peak right next to the property line. Direct line of sight INTO the Tin Hat House courtyard. That made it a no go. A very nice soul (again the Wizard) also pointed out that 10 acres is not as big as us city dwellers think. If isolation is a concern, think larger acreage plots. Since all the locations I am researching is desert land and mostly flat, line of sight is extremely important. The process continues.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

tmttactical said:


> As someone (Wizard) said (many times) location, location and location. I was looking at some desert property (50 + acres) and finding the right one is very difficult. Thought I had found the perfect spot (200 acres), until Google Earth showed a taller peak right next to the property line. Direct line of sight INTO the Tin Hat House courtyard. That made it a no go. A very nice soul (again the Wizard) also pointed out that 10 acres is not as big as us city dwellers think. If isolation is a concern, think larger acreage plots. Since all the locations I am researching is desert land and mostly flat, line of sight is extremely important. The process continues.


With all that flat desert land, probably the best you can do is find acreage that provides cover from the highway....either a ridge between you and the road, or a swale that gives you a low spot to build in. Anything to keep you "invisible" from the highway. *"Driveway"* is gonna be the problem, but you may be able to sort of disguise it as a cattle crossing type thing that doesn't really look like it goes anywhere important. But then it's gonna see a lot of use during construction....could be a problem....maybe find a way in off some secondary or tertiary road? :dunno:


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

Pessimistic2 said:


> With all that flat desert land, probably the best you can do is find acreage that provides cover from the highway....either a ridge between you and the road, or a swale that gives you a low spot to build in. Anything to keep you "invisible" from the highway. *"Driveway"* is gonna be the problem, but you may be able to sort of disguise it as a cattle crossing type thing that doesn't really look like it goes anywhere important. But then it's gonna see a lot of use during construction....could be a problem....maybe find a way in off some secondary or tertiary road? :dunno:


Plant tree around the house -- 300 yard distance -- line of sight blockage. large property with a very long dirt road to house. Dust cloud visible from house. 360 degree -150 yard cleared open space approaching house. No main roads close by, only distant paved county roads. No water (rivers, streams, lakes, etc.) anywhere nearby. No quality hunting grounds. Basically no reason for any marauding mutants to be out that way. No reason for any neighbors to be visiting either. The 'Tin Hat House" will not have a well recorded, no water storage tanks showing, no power lines into property and solar panels visible from outside of the house.

This is to be a Grey Man House, located in the middle of nowhere. Aquaponics, fruit threes, grapes, blackberries, and maybe some bees. Not sure about the bee thing yet. I like the concept but not sure if viable for untrained folks, more research needed. Completely off grid and self sustaining. A million details to resolve before property is purchased.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Tmttactical.....yes, one of the best "defenses" is simply have a place where no one else would even think there's anything there.....no reason for them to be there, no reason for anyone to stumble on it by accident...you got it!!


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> For Alabama, that is pretty good for "starting wages." McDummies new hires get $8.50. She's pretty bright, got a head for figures....understands financing very well. He's no dum-dum, either....wants to start a "custom cabinet shop" to bring in extra money, and from the looks of the cabinets he did at the Church, he knows what he is doing! Gonna do a litle research on the "cabinet market competition" in the area.....if it looks like he can jump in and get some orders, I might just finance that little venture myself, and take my "interest" out in learning how to make cabinets!! I am not a carpenter or cabinet maker, and the only thing I know about a hammer is which end hits the nail! Kinda blew my mind all the different floor plans they have for a small 2 bdrm/1 bath cabin....Jeez, you wouldn't think there'd be THAT MANY ways to arrange 2 bdrms, bath, laundry room, living room, kitchen/dining area, and a pantry! I mean, come on, it's only 6 ROOMs, for Pete's sake!! :scratch


If he that good with wood why doesn't he build the house himself? My BFF's husband and 16 year old nephew spent this weekend working on their new house. They had the floor leveled and framed out Friday and the rest done Sat and Sun. Next weekend they are going to close it in and roof it.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

terri9630 said:


> If he that good with wood why doesn't he build the house himself? My BFF's husband and 16 year old nephew spent this weekend working on their new house. They had the floor leveled and framed out Friday and the rest done Sat and Sun. Next weekend they are going to close it in and roof it.


Cabinetry and construction framing & roofing, two separate critters. The tools maybe similar but the knowledge base quite different.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

terri9630 said:


> If he that good with wood why doesn't he build the house himself? My BFF's husband and 16 year old nephew spent this weekend working on their new house. They had the floor leveled and framed out Friday and the rest done Sat and Sun. Next weekend they are going to close it in and roof it.


A. BIG difference between building a cabinet and building a house...especially a log cabin. That's kinda like comparing "apples and oranges!"
B. The "material" for a log cabin (locally) would require about 10 times the effort and time as ordering one prefabbed and ready to assemble. Remember, both of these kids work full-time.
:wave:


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> Plant tree around the house -- 300 yard distance -- line of sight blockage. large property with a very long dirt road to house. Dust cloud visible from house. ...


Couldn't the trees also prevent the owner from seeing the dust cloud and provide the hordes cover?

I lean more towards a BOL out in nowhere land. With hundreds of feet and yards and miles of surrounding open terrain that make it next to impossible to sneak up on my BOL.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

tmttactical said:


> Cabinetry and construction framing & roofing, two separate critters. The tools maybe similar but the knowledge base quite different.


I know they are different but if he has the skills and basic knowledge he can learn. Start with a simple pole barn or shed or another outbuilding. If they decide they can't or don't want to try they can still spend $$ having someone else do it.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

TheLazyL said:


> Couldn't the trees also prevent the owner from seeing the dust cloud and provide the hordes cover? I lean more towards a BOL out in nowhere land. With hundreds of feet and yards and miles of surrounding open terrain that make it next to impossible to sneak up on my BOL.


I'm with you here....I want at least 200+ yards of NOTHING around the residence......trees, barriers, etc., can be farther out, but I don't want *anything* blocking the sight line close in!! My BOL is set up so the residence is about 100 yds+ from a sheer cliff face in one direction, a couple hundred yards from the "V" where the two mountains run into the cliff face, and the "front" is *wide open* for around 200-250 yds. The mountains are damn near impassable, and it would take a real pro to come in from any of those three directions (and even then, they'd have MILES of gorges, streams, and other mountains to traverse before they even GET TO "my" mountains).......I'm *45 miles deep,* and as far as I know, the only way in realistically is to fly in (helicopter), which is how I get there, and how I have supplies, equipment brought in. I'd hate to even try it on foot or with pack mules!!! Not sure it could even be done by a non-professional....rough azz terrain, for real!! In the 25 years I've been working on the place, I've never seen *anyone*, when I'm there. I'm only out there for maybe 1-2 months a year (I live in Alabama), and I've never even seen any signs of anyone being there while it's unoccupied. MAYBE there are some Native Americans up in the mountains....there are a few patches of them living off the grid in other parts of the state, along with a few old Viet Nam Vets, but I've never seen any around my place. I'm a firm believer in being "so far out there" there's no reason for anyone else to be there, period, and no way anyone should just stumble upon the place accidentally. Took me a long time to FIND the location (no Google Earth back then!), but I think it's pretty much "ideal." :wave::beercheer:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> I would expect a cabinet maker to be capable of building a house. I would expect a race car driver to be able to take his pickup down to the pub. Some skills transfer one way better than the other.


Maybe......but there is one hell of a lot more to consider in building a house than a cabinet! Cabinets don't have to be wired, no plumbing, etc., etc., etc.
And then there is the availability of materials....much easier/faster just to buy a kit and be done with it! :dunno:


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Maybe......but there is one hell of a lot more to consider in building a house than a cabinet! Cabinets don't have to be wired, no plumbing, etc., etc., etc.
> And then there is the availability of materials....much easier/faster just to buy a kit and be done with it! :dunno:


To have our new place professionally totally re-wired is going to cost us $5,000. We have redone some of the framing, all the plumbing, siding and windows and we are working on the new metal roofing. We have spent about 5 thousand for the materials with a few things left to get. With the electrical that will put us at about $10,000 instead of the $50,000 for the cheapest quote to have the house re done "professionally". They would have it done faster but as hubby still has 2 1/2 years until he can retire we aren't in a rush and can save $40,000.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou said:


> Putting together a log house is different than a frame house. While I can run a boom truck or a crane I would still need to hire someone to help so I might as well hire an experienced crew with the right equipment.


I have only the experience we went through at the BOL, and I'd have really hated to do that thing from"scratch." Everything was marked/labeled, took us a while, but we finally got it done, with some imported "relatives" helping out. Hardest part of the whole operation was just getting all the crap flown in! The "kit" was actually pretty easy to put together. Of course it's all one floor, except for the "observatory," but we used the helicopter for that, ain't no way we were flying in no cherry picker!!! 

On the other hand, mine is 4,000 sq, ft.+, and the kids are only looking for a 1300-1600 sq. ft......but if everything is marked/labeled, it shouldn't be that much of a problem. "Locally," even from lumber yards, the "log home material" is not readily available, and they'd have to special order the logs. Kit is just a whole lot easier all around. :wave:


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

Pessimistic2 said:


> For Alabama, that is pretty good for "starting wages." McDummies new hires get $8.50. She's pretty bright, got a head for figures....understands financing very well. He's no dum-dum, either....wants to start a "custom cabinet shop" to bring in extra money, and from the looks of the cabinets he did at the Church, he knows what he is doing! Gonna do a litle research on the "cabinet market competition" in the area.....if it looks like he can jump in and get some orders, I might just finance that little venture myself, and take my "interest" out in learning how to make cabinets!! I am not a carpenter or cabinet maker, and the only thing I know about a hammer is which end hits the nail! Kinda blew my mind all the different floor plans they have for a small 2 bdrm/1 bath cabin....Jeez, you wouldn't think there'd be THAT MANY ways to arrange 2 bdrms, bath, laundry room, living room, kitchen/dining area, and a pantry! I mean, come on, it's only 6 ROOMs, for Pete's sake!! :scratch


Pinterest has some interesting small home/cottage floor plans and ideas.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

ZangLussuria said:


> Pinterest has some interesting small home/cottage floor plans and ideas.


Log homes? They want a log home. :wave:


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## ZangLussuria (May 25, 2012)

Pessimistic2 said:


> Log homes? They want a log home. :wave:


They have those too.
it's just nice to see designs, ideas and floor plans of similar sized homes.
One can find almost anything on Pinterest.
��

They have stuff like these and more.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

ZangLussuria said:


> They have those too.
> it's just nice to see designs, ideas and floor plans of similar sized homes.
> One can find almost anything on Pinterest.


That top one looks like the "Denali" from Southern Company! I'll pass this along to them. The problem here is the "logs" are not available from area lumberyards, and they'd have to special order them....which makes it easier/faster to just order the kit and be done with it! :thankyou::beercheer:


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

*A few things you might want to have, if you don't already have them..*

Here are a few things to tuck away if you don't already have them......

https://www.amazon.com/Survival-Medicine-Handbook-Guide-When/dp/0988872536

U. S. Army Survival Manual: https://books.google.com/books?id=20enDAAAQBAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s

https://www.amazon.com/Preppers-Lon...rd_wg=jzsNV&psc=1&refRID=0DYY7Q6FP99FSK9Y3P0R

https://www.amazon.com/SHTF-Preppin...rd_wg=MorTy&psc=1&refRID=32JG7YH35T8XD7TF9MK7

Dirt cheap prepping tips: https://www.amazon.com/Dirt-Cheap-V...rd_wg=uDgQH&psc=1&refRID=ZDP691Y1BWQXPCW1G6WZ

Home defense tips: https://www.amazon.com/Preppers-Hom...rd_wg=MorTy&psc=1&refRID=32JG7YH35T8XD7TF9MK7


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## headhunter (Nov 21, 2008)

Log homes are beautiful. They look like they belong. Log homes must be maintained. Every 4-6 years they must be sanded/power washed, re-chinked, stained , and waterproofed. The sun can do cruel things to the logs. If they are not protected they may be attacked by boring insects which are then attacked by birds who enlarge the holes looking for supper. The sun attacking your finish - should it get ahead of you necessitates using a darker stain and the light brown can become almost a black. You may end up cladding posts and the lile it insure they don't have too much contact with snow. I love log cabins, however, if you are looking for maintenance-free.-go another direction.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

headhunter said:


> Log homes are beautiful. They look like they belong. Log homes must be maintained. Every 4-6 years they must be sanded/power washed, re-chinked, stained , and waterproofed. The sun can do cruel things to the logs. If they are not protected they may be attacked by boring insects which are then attacked by birds who enlarge the holes looking for supper. The sun attacking your finish - should it get ahead of you necessitates using a darker stain and the light brown can become almost a black. You may end up cladding posts and the lile it insure they don't have too much contact with snow. I love log cabins, however, if you are looking for maintenance-free.-go another direction.


I have a very large timber/frame home for my BOL...been there for about 23+ years. And you're right, log or timber frame, they are NOT "maintenance free!!" Mine's been refinished 4 times, resealed, the whole nine yards, looks beautiful, but maintenance free it ain't!! I don't care how well you have it sealed...the bugs will find a way in!! :beercheer:


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