# Bad Idea for B.O.B



## Cwilliamson (Jun 8, 2012)

This is my first post to this site, I have been viewing it for quite some time I even have the Iphone app so be gentile with me. The other day while surfing around on Amazon I came across this new section called "Listmania!". It's basically the shopping list for a bunch of preppers. While browsing through every ones list comparing what I have and what I want and so forth,I noticed a commend thing listed on everyone's list that I do not currently have in my BOB. A hand held GPS system, I was comparing prices and the wow factors of terrain detail as well as specs. Some where better than others with their Hi Def screens and water proof jackets and so forth but like most say you get what you pay for. After tossing around the idea of purchasing one and kicking it to my old paper maps that I have made from Google Earth. I saw a common theme among them all which was their accuracy to get with in so many feet of a particular point. I did a little research on how GPS systems work this is what I found out.

A GPS receiver's job is to locate four or more of these satellites, figure out the distanc*e to each, and use this information to deduce its own location. This operation is based on a simple mathematical principle called trilateration. 

I also learned that there are 27 satellites in orbit 24 in which are in active use and 3 that are used as back ups should one fail. With most of the gps systems on today's market they allow you to get within 9 feet of your intended target. If a SHTF government take over occurs, Whats to say they couldn't use this technology to find you? every time you turn on the devise it sends up a signal to the satellites to triangulate your position. If big brother is watching my purchases over the internet or my credit card whats to say there's not a data base with some sort of tag linked to your device you could currently be walking around with?


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Actually, ever thin I've read about gps (I have one) it only recieves signals. 

Now goobernuts can actually change the accuracy of the units though. They can push you off point however far they wan't so reliablility may be a issue. Keep yer map an compass just in case.

gps has a place but don't bet yer life on it.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Yup is why I have never gotten one and leave that funtion of my cell phone off except for rare occaison. Not to mention if it's a emp attack many or all of those sat's may be gone shame on you if you were depending on em. I always prefer to have paper maps of my AO not that I always do I have long wished for a FULL set of millitary maps for the US of A and esp a set for my current area. They are cost prohibitive but have gotten some good books have one for MO and one for AK (I was very very seriously considering reloacting post divorce) I need to get them for surounding states as well then pick up a few more states at a time till I have a collection of them they may or may not be as thorough as the MIl maps but are accesible and somewhat reasonable. Get maps get GOOD compass learn how t use them. And don't forget to write or email as many states as possible for road maps roads if nothing else make decent landmarks and you can often get state maps from their tourism depts for free. Not as good as a orienteering map but better than nothin.


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## Cwilliamson (Jun 8, 2012)

Just some food for thought


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Them ones on the phone be a different story! They can track them! Be why I have a seperate gps unit.

I just beleive in coverin my bases in more in one direction!


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## Grimsonday (Oct 24, 2012)

Hand held GPS units are a receive only system. So with no transmitting, there is no way for anyone to track you. Your GPS tracks 4 satilettes and Triangulates you to determine your position. But I imagine government could possibly alter what the satilettes transmit (their location) and give you incorrect readings, but I Doubt it. But the government does have the capability to give them more of an accurate reading.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

20 years flying the Army, and I know the gps system can be altered. The military allows for their gps units handheld, vehicles and aircraft to enter and encryption code for the gps. During a conflict/crisis the govt can alter the accuracy by several kilometers and if you dont have the encryption code your lost, where as those with the code are right on tgt.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

In the past the GPS accuracy for civilians had in in-built "fuzziness" so it would not be as accurate at a military one.

This was to not empower other countries to buy our commercial reasily available stuff to use as guidance for prescsion wepons.
And this is the basis of the wide spread " the gov't camn alter them", or thier accuracy sentiment.

However I understand this built-in "fuzziness" has now been done away with, on all GPS's built in recent years.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Why*



Cwilliamson said:


> This is my first post to this site, I have been viewing it for quite some time I even have the Iphone app so be gentile with me. The other day while surfing around on Amazon I came across this new section called "Listmania!". It's basically the shopping list for a bunch of preppers. While browsing through every ones list comparing what I have and what I want and so forth,I noticed a commend thing listed on everyone's list that I do not currently have in my BOB. A hand held GPS system, I was comparing prices and the wow factors of terrain detail as well as specs. Some where better than others with their Hi Def screens and water proof jackets and so forth but like most say you get what you pay for. After tossing around the idea of purchasing one and kicking it to my old paper maps that I have made from Google Earth. I saw a common theme among them all which was their accuracy to get with in so many feet of a particular point. I did a little research on how GPS systems work this is what I found out.
> 
> A GPS receiver's job is to locate four or more of these satellites, figure out the distanc*e to each, and use this information to deduce its own location. This operation is based on a simple mathematical principle called trilateration.
> 
> I also learned that there are 27 satellites in orbit 24 in which are in active use and 3 that are used as back ups should one fail. With most of the gps systems on today's market they allow you to get within 9 feet of your intended target. If a SHTF government take over occurs, Whats to say they couldn't use this technology to find you? every time you turn on the devise it sends up a signal to the satellites to triangulate your position. If big brother is watching my purchases over the internet or my credit card whats to say there's not a data base with some sort of tag linked to your device you could currently be walking around with?


Why would the government want to locate one old man anyway ?

That being said, I grew up reading and understanding compasses and maps so why change what works for me.

As for the government giving a whiz about me or what I do after a collapse of sociaty, well , I ain't James Bond !


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## Nor777 (Nov 8, 2011)

I would stick with the printed maps (sat veiw) with routes marked on it. Batterys dont go dead on a paper map.


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Don't waste your money...I had one assigned to me n they suck...better off just knowing where your going n know stars n direction by sun n maps n compass. Batteries die out quick with them too...it was wastes space n weight in my pack...


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I guess there are a few issues here, and welcome!

For post SHTF, a gps would assumedly be useless, but its possible that the system would still function and it would come down to your personal situation. A hand held device would be much smaller and 'simpler' than a bunch of maps, but now you have to protect it, power it, keep it dry, whatever. The good ones I've seen for back country hikers and such are expensive.
Now for everyday life, if you have need for one, theyre great. Much easier for our delivery guys then reading maps like I did.
As for the tracking, yes on the phones and on some of those super gadgets, and thats the point, so you could be found in case youre up the creek. 'They' already know all about you, and if theyre looking for you-which would be doubtful post SHTF unless youre a really bad guy- well youre screwed.

Conclusion: Maps. Both if you want to spend the money, but as Coot said, dont bet yer life on the gps if it comes down to it.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

If there is an EMP, your GPS will be useless. There are also notoriously inaccurate in rural areas. Why would you have anything other than paper maps?


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## Hooch (Jul 22, 2011)

Oh hi ya all...


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

The GPS is a receive only type system. It uses signals received from various satellites and associated time stamps then does it's own internal triangulation to determine it's location.

The Selective Availability feature that prevented civilian units the same accuracy as military units was eliminated in 2000 as a result of an earlier Clinton Executive Order, but as I understand it there is still an encrypted signal only available to the military so it's possible that they could alter the regular signal to give inaccurate data while still allowing the military use of accurate data.

Regardless, GPS in itself is unable to track anyone. Only when combined with a device capable of transmitting can it be used to locate someone or something else. Your cell phones may be an issue of concern, but the handheld garmin or magellan units shouldn't.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

kejmack said:


> If there is an EMP, your GPS will be useless. There are also notoriously inaccurate in rural areas. Why would you have anything other than paper maps?


I think the maps may be more inaccurate in rural areas, but the GPS itself is no more or less accurate.

I know some of the units for cars have better maps than others. Most handheld off road type units I've used have maps that more accurate than I actually need.

What if an EMP doesn't happen? It's a possibility, but many other possibilities don't necessarily include an EMP. Besides, GPS units can be used now. I don't have to wait for an emergency.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

well it is my understanding I could be wrong that even without EMP it takes constant monitoring and programmer input to keep those satelights in proper trim. That may be a different type of satelight but think it involves the GPS sats. So once the payrolls quit I imagine most of the programmers quit and while these things may be self correcting that goes only so long as they run into nothing out of their ordinary. I woulnd't count on them surviving Us for very long.


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## tugboats (Feb 15, 2009)

Relying on technology is always a poor idea. I have GPS on my boats but rarely turn them on. I prefer to navigate by compass and dead reckoninig. Batteries don't fail on a chart and compass. There are many people that have run aground relying on GPS. Many people don't even have paper charts of the areas that they sail in. 

I do use the GPS when salmon fishing to mark fish caught and record my SOG but rarely ever use it to navigate. I also have a hand held unit for hiking and hunting but here again rarely use or need the thing. If you know how to navigate with a compass, read a topo and keep aware of landmarks the GPS is not of much use.

If you need a GPS because your skills are weak (I doubt yours are) then what kind of a situation will you get yourself into when the batteries fail, screen cracks or some other malady besets your GPS. A GPS is a nice tool but if you are not confident in orienteering with a compass and map the you might be in over your head. 

The most important navigation tool is knowledge. Know your equipment, study your area and rely on a good topo. In wide open spaces a GPS is fine but I find that in heavy tree canopy areas (no clear view of sats) that the unit we have takes a real long time to aquire signal. Unless we have a massive pole reversal I think I will still rely on the tried and true compass with redundancy.

Tugs


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

jsriley5 said:


> well it is my understanding I could be wrong that even without EMP it takes constant monitoring and programmer input to keep those satelights in proper trim. That may be a different type of satelight but think it involves the GPS sats. So once the payrolls quit I imagine most of the programmers quit and while these things may be self correcting that goes only so long as they run into nothing out of their ordinary. I woulnd't count on them surviving Us for very long.


That's true. They do need occasional tweeking to account for various things.

This is where my version of SHTF differs from the versions of others. I believe that unless it's a global calamity, a complete shutdown of society won't happen. The jobs pertaining to critical national defense will continue even if most other government functions stop.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

Maps, especially topographical maps, are a safer bet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1386212/GPS-leaves-Rita-Chretien-stranded-Nevada-wilderness-seven-weeks-journey-Las-Vegas.html


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

That would make for a interesting story 48 days is nearly unprecedented, most times anything over three days and they start looking to recover bodies. She did well. I have very little doubt the husband has succumbed to exposure after so long a time unprepared for those conditions. As for Maps being better well I tend to agree but most won't take time to learn to use them and without that they can lead you just as astray. I guess the real WORD UP is don't venture off the beaten or paved path unless you are fully prepared for it. ONthe other side if I was hiking a really long trail like the appalachian (without stopping for boxes along the way) a GPS would be very tempting just for conveinience and weight as all the maps for that trail once they are waterproofed would have to wiegh considerable more than one unit with rechargeable batteries and my little solar charger. But that is speculation as I have never owned one  I like a hard map.


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