# Fussy nation..



## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

We have four cats. All are spayed and neutered, and well cared for currently. I had to take the lone female to the vet for something I'll leave out here, and to see if they would advise on how to treat hot spots caused by flea bites.

Now we have always used Advantage. We moved to this place a little over a year ago. The prior tenants had two smallish long hairded dogs, and they did not treat for fleas at all, apparently...spring-time hit and it was horrible. Well we have been using Advantage and thought it was working, and found out it is not, so this put us "behind" in trying to tame the problem from the last people. So we went over to Frontline.

Well, we were coming up for another dose, and when I took the female cat in, even after explaining to the vet tech (animal cna...) that our place we had just been in a short time was infested before we got to it, and have been battling it since, she looked at the cat and said in a very snarky tone "well she is just infested, have YOU been treating her with a flea control?". I said it again to her, thinking that her bleach blonde hair was causing some hearing issues.

Then I had to explain it again to the vet, who instead of being focused on the issue I mainly took her in for, and then about the hot spots themselves, focused in on what felt like nothing more than a sales pitch for her favorite products for fleas and worms, as well as all the latest immunizations.....they were VERY pushy about these products that only they carried and wanted me to buy, but were quite snobby about the cat having ANY fleas.

Now a side note, our landlord leased out the field behind us to a horse rescue, and the woman who ran it NEVER did anything for the horses, including brushing. It never dawned on me why we are still having a problem with fleas, till I talked to a friend about this and she confirmed sure horses would have them and there were about 10 back there, all unkept....a duh moment for me.

I am not a messy person, my home is clean, the cats water is checked on twice a day, we vaccum floors and furniture several times a week, dishes are done, and clothing clean......

I have gotten this same attitude from dentists offices and medical offices about things to do with my kids in the past...whats with our society lately? We have become so fussy about everything. This girl said the cat was "infested" with fleas, but I could run my fingers thru her fur and not see one.

Sorry folks, it was so ridiculous that it got under my skin. People have become so freakishly fussy about everything, even their pets. The vets office was horrified I let the three males out and was trying to train this one to go do her business outdoors. They acted like they were surely going to die of one of the diseases they give them shots for, and honestly, I have NEVER known someones cat to die from any of these. I have seen peoples inside cats die from obesity that then caused kidney failure....

I have seen this fussiness in other ways of our daily lives. What will these people do when the perfection they think they have gotten used to having is gone? What will they do when you cannot buy cat litter anymore? What will they do when animal products such as flea control no longer be available?

Animals get fleas. It's a fact. No one wants to have a place so infested they're hopping all around you, but even having no animals, you know, fleas still can get brought into you home on your feet from being outdoors. Wild creatures making a path through you home (rodents) and yard leave flea eggs around. 

Sorry, my rant, had to get it off my chest. I just don't understand what it is with people these days. It seems they want perfection in everything, including other peoples lives. I wonder how these people will fare when SHTF?


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## lilmissy0740 (Mar 7, 2011)

Is it being fussy or just trying to be someone that they are not, you know I am better than you. Anymore I can barely stand to go to the grocery store. Makes me want to punch a few woman  Nothing the matter with taking care of yourself and your appearance, but for crying out loud, who wears high heels shoes, carries a big huge $400 purse, and her hair doesnt move and her nails were just done at the chinese salon. I run into the grocery store for something, I am in my muck shoes, hair in pony tail and my nails are far from manicured, I play in the dirt. I am not going home to file my nails and watch tv all day. And then they stand in the middle of the aisle as if they own the store. uuugh, fussy isnt the word... IGNORANT is.

As far as the fleas, put apple cider vinegar in water bowl, feed some garlic and sprinkle diatomaceous earth in your house and vacuum up after a few hours and you can also lightly dust your pets and definitely sprinkle it all in your yard. 

ok not that my post is just a rant also and doesnt make much sense. Goin to put my high heels on to tramp through the snow and fix the fire.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

lilmissy0740 said:


> sprinkle diatomaceous earth in your house


 I'll second that and add; work a little into their coats. We've been using DE as flea and tick control for nearly 5 years, although I don't know how it would react with the "hot spots." We also use it as a wormer by sprinkling some in their food once a month or so. Great stuff!

Here is a link where you can read about it and/or buy it.
You can also ask your local Agway dealer to get it for you. Just make sure you specify "Food Grade."


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

I'll kid you not, this is a true story. We had a lady move here from California and she was horrified that we filled the dog's water dish with rainwater. She would bring jugs of water over for our dog. She quit after a short while, and then started urging us to get rid of our dog, cats, and chickens because they would draw in predators.

Another neighbor had us watch her dog while she was gone, and I mentioned to her that her dog sure loved to fetch sticks! She was horrified and said they didn't use sticks because the dog might get splinters in his mouth! They had a special fetch toy. The dog was the one who had started it, bringing sticks to us! 

We struggled to pay for dental check-ups and so forth for our kids. I just saw an ad in our local paper from the veterinary clinic that "February is Dental Health month, bring your cat or dog in for a dental check-up and get $30 OFF". That's $30 OFF of the cost of the check-up!!! For dogs, and cats!!! How much are people paying for that kind of thing? Wow! 

We're from the cold north but for 6 years we lived in SE Kentucky. My kids were used to playing outside in snow and cold, and had appropriate clothing for it. Down in SE Kentucky a lot of those kids didn't, and they would cancel school if we got more than half an inch of snow, and if the temperature went below 20 degrees (Up here where we live it sometimes never gets UP to 20 degrees for days!). One time the kids and I walked half a mile to the grocery store during a snowstorm. The kids were ages 5 to 12, and wearing snow boots, snowsuits, and gloves. A lady pulled over and got out and reamed me up one side and down the other and threatened to call Social Services on me, for having the kids out in such extreme weather! 

Good luck with your cats, Hoppe. Don't let that vet shake your confidence. You're doing a fine job trying to conquer this, and with so many adverse conditions around you. Hang in there.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

gypsysue said:


> One time the kids and I walked half a mile to the grocery store during a snowstorm. The kids were ages 5 to 12, and wearing snow boots, snowsuits, and gloves. A lady pulled over and got out and reamed me up one side and down the other and threatened to call Social Services on me, for having the kids out in such extreme weather!


LOL! I just loooovvvee it when people don't mind their own darn business. If I saw someone correcting their child with a switch, or a swat on the butt, no big deal. You correct your children the way you want. I myself had a paddle with my name and my brother's name on it. Hell hath no fury like my mother and father scorned. Haha!

Now if I saw you punch your child, or if there were a lot of black and blue marks on said child, and the look of fear in their eyes when they are around you, than I'd have a problem with you. No child deserves to be beaten like that.

The fact that your children and yourself were going for a walk to the store in SNOWSUITS, is of no concern of that woman's. I would of told her to stick it where the sun don't shine! Heck, if I were that woman, I would have pulled over and asked you if you needed a ride! :gaah: People!


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Seems I am not the only one who has run into people who have no common sense about life. Lord the way people are these days. Well, we know this, they won't be the ones to survive, or survive well when SHTF...

Diatomaceous Earth, I was just thinking about that for the carpets. Only issue would be getting under the furntiure...I probably will just pick a good weather day, kick out the boys with some food and water (relegated to hanging out in the shed on the straw) and the girl in the garage with food and water, set off too many bombs, and go for a drive. I'll probably have to do that a couple of times to really get a foot hold on how bad it is.

However on that note, we have not seen one and not been bitten, so it can't be that bad..You'd think by the vet tech and vet that our place was a sea of fleas.

Gypsy, here in Oregon, we're not prepared for anything but the minimal little snow, or ice storm, we just usually do not get it, and if we do, it will last at the most a week. Our schools and all just flip out when it does happen. I would not be beyond getting out no matter what. People are ridiculous about "adverse" weather. Some people are just too domesticated. 

Gypsy, I live close to Multnomah Falls. If you have ever seen it, there is a trail that goes up to the top, steep with steep switchbacks. It is a tourist attraction and once the kids and I stopped by there on our way out of town, to use the restrooms. There was a woman who was in open toed stilletos, jeans, manicured, pedicured and bleached, who told her travel companions "ooh, lets go to the top". I was wondering is she thought there would be an escalator...she was inapropriately geared for it, in the least. Hope she did not break a nail when she fell.

Again, there is no common sense these days. A dog is a dog, a cat is a cat. We domesticated them for a purpose each, and to treat them like a royal being is ridiculous. We do a maintenance routine with ours, flea control, parasite control, a good quality food (we go through less than the other stuff and they are hugely healthier, shiny coats), but being outdoors is good for them, and they are happier.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Don't play around with fleas in your house, do what ever it takes to get rid of em. I once traveled to a refinery in Kentucky to do some work and stayed about 15 days. The hotel I stayed in, I think was "Best Western", not a flop house but not the Ritz, and the only rooms they had were ones that had "Pets Allowed". 

Anyways, just before I left, to return home,I started feeling sick and by the time I got back home, I had a 103 temp and a visit to the doctor the next morning revealed that I had "Typhus", the only place that I could have gotten it was from residual fleas in the "pet allowed room". Typhus is one of the nastiest diseases that God allowed on this earth and throughout history has been a big killer.

Don't mess around with Fleas, they carry disease and filth, your health is the most valuable thing that you have so do whatever it takes to preserve it.



By the way, a bad infestation of Fire Ants will keep the fleas and ticks out of your yard and away from your house, however, I would not recommend that remedy.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

We don't have fleas around here (or termites) and the only snakes we have are garter snakes...they can't handle the climate. Now if we could just get rid of the ticks!

Good thread. People are really spoiled. It will be interesting to see what happens when TSHTF.


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## AlabamaGal (Dec 27, 2011)

I once move into a place horribly infested with fleas, and it had been empty for months so they were *hungry.* I didn't have any pets at the time; they wanted to eat ME. About a week later I went to a farm supply place and got a huge bag of DE. I started at one corner of the house and dusted the carpet and washed everything washable in hot water (curtains, etc.) as I went. Pausing and waiting for the washer and hot water to recharge took a while, but it was a small place and eventually I made it out the front door and did the yard.

All fleas dead. Of course, so were all the ants and other insects, so using DE outside is not something I'd recommend if you are growing food and need pollinators and beneficial insects.

Later got a dog from the pound who had fleas and I tried rubbing the DE into his coat but it really does a number on their skin and dries it out badly. Since I attacked the problem before the fleas had a chance to get started they were eliminated soon. I probably would not use DE directly on an animal again except as a one-time thing.

Advantage and Frontline are pretty nasty stuff. They are safer then the OTC flea powders and such, but still not very safe. I'd only use them if you really needed them. For an exposure you can treat quickly, there is a very, very safe product available now called Capstar. It only kills adults so it's not much help if you have an infestation or are going to be recontaminated repeatedly, which is where Frontline, etc. are usful. But if I ever boarded my pets they'd get a Capstar before they got in the car to come home.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

You might want to watch for tape worms in your cats if you have a heavy flea infestation.

fleas ingest the tape worm eggs. When an animal licks its fur, they are subject to ingest the flea... who has ingested the TW eggs. (Ask me how I know.  )

Anyway, we have had flea infestations before. Vacuuming is good, but so is spraying something like Raid in the corners of a room. For some reason, fleas hatch out in the corners, especially on a concrete floor.

We use Frontline on our dogs. We apply it outdoors, and leave the dogs out for a while afterwards should any of the little bugger fleas decide to jump ship.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Jezcruzen said:


> You might want to watch for tape worms in your cats if you have a heavy flea infestation.


DE is a very effective wormer. We use it on the dogs, cats chickens and goats. It's a lot cheaper than commercial wormer's and as far as we can tell, just as effective. Yeah, I know, I'm starting to sound like a broken record.


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## siletz (Aug 23, 2011)

It seems to me that anytime you deal with someone in a specialty of any kind, they believe that since it is their biggest interest, it should be yours as well. I've had the same condescending attitude at the vets office as you dealt with. Also, when my niece started beauty school, she started telling us that we shouldn't use the shampoo and other hair care products found at the stores, but only the ones in the beauty salons, as the others would just ruin our hair. Get real! :gaah:


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

Hopp, you are so right. There are some folks that I truly wonder how they will manage when they can no longer get hand sanitizer. 

And not all vets are the same. When we moved I started looking for a new vet (not that we go often, but sometimes you need one). I was amazed at the websites of some of these practices - just as prissy as you described yours, equating pets with royalty and all that. DH and I would have to get second jobs (as if we could) to be able to treat our pets the way they expect. And if we had second jobs, how on earth would we be home all the time to give them every ounce of our attention, as these vets would expect us to? I'm thankful those practices had websites, as that helped me screen them out!  We found a country small/large animal practice, and have been very happy with them - they are practical, not prissy. 

Just consider your experience as a reminder to be thankful that you're not like that. :beercheer: Think about it - these folks really handicap themselves with their fussy ways.

For what it's worth, we had a similar situation with fleas when we moved into this house. While we came to the house with one cat, we quickly ended up with four (long story). In rehabbing the house we ripped out the floors and floorboards, and the fleas came out in force. Bug bombs (a one-time event, multiple locations in the house) and cleaning got the number down, then use of Frontline over several months licked it. We stopped using the Frontline when that happened. Then we got dogs.  The fleas didn't kick in right away, but we did notice them coming back, so all animals are back on Frontline, and it's getting under control again. It's really important for one of our cats, because she's severely allergic to fleas (not just bothered by the bites, she has a hardcore allergic reaction to them - maybe like the hot spots you mentioned on your cat?) But my point is, with some vigilance and a little patience, it is possible to get an infestation under control. :2thumb:


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Cowboys*

Cowboys on trail drives used to stop occasionaly at large ant hills where they would strip down and place their clothes and bed rolls on the ant hils for an hour or two .

The ants would kill the fleas and lice and they could then brush the ants away and go forth signifigantly de- loused and de- fleaed.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Ugh...all this talk of small body bugs is giving me the willies. Interesting what the cowboys used the ants for.

The typhus part of it, I was not aware. However, knowing what I do know about fleas, and ticks, this means their last host was sick too, or a carrier of typhus. Are ther any parts of the nation that this is common in?

We are slowly but surely getting the fleas under control. I have to wait for a non-rainy day to kick the boys out and flea bomb the inside. The female can stay in the garage. I'd feel bad relegating them to being out in the rain mainly.

The thing about the shampoos, heay I have heard that, but who could afford to wash their hair everyday with those at sometimes $20 a bottle? Really. I have tried more expensive shelf stuff, and it is ok, but not worth the price I have paid, Suave works fine, although I like some intermediately priced conditioners.

I read up on the flea allergy issue with cats. Many think this could be from being infested constantly when they were young. We had one cat who came to us at only 5 weeks old. I had to bathe him 5 times and pull fleas off him with a hospital baby comb, they were lined up on his spine sucking the life out of that kitten. It was the worst thing I had ever seen. Later in life he had a problem with flea allergy and also other health issues from early damage caused probably by anemia in his first weeks of life. Poor cat only lived to nine.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Something you can check out that may be cheaper than flea shampoos is Neem Oil. It is an organic oil that has many uses, several of them are to spray on vegetable plants in your garden to kill pests and to control/kill flees. It is available in many garden shops and Health Food Stores. A large bottle rans about $10.00 to $20.00, I dont know exactly how much it is now, the bottle I bought about 5 years ago has not run out yet. Small amounts of the oil can be mixed with cheap shampoo to give you the same results as the expensive flea shampoos, but care must be taken, in large amounts it can have adverse effects. It can even be sprayed on your yard to control/kill fleas there also. It would be more expensive than DE but if the DE doesn't work the next step could be the Neem Oil.

As far as the Typhus goes, unfortunately, It can be found everywhere there are Fleas, Chiggers or Mites. If/when you stay in a hotel, avoid the ones that allow pets, dont make the same mistake I did - almost 20 years later I still suffer from some of its effects.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Davarm said:


> Something you can check out that may be cheaper than flea shampoos is Neem Oil. It is an organic oil that has many uses, several of them are to spray on vegetable plants in your garden to kill pests and to control/kill flees. It is available in many garden shops and Health Food Stores. A large bottle rans about $10.00 to $20.00, I dont know exactly how much it is now, the bottle I bought about 5 years ago has not run out yet. Small amounts of the oil can be mixed with cheap shampoo to give you the same results as the expensive flea shampoos, but care must be taken, in large amounts it can have adverse effects. It can even be sprayed on your yard to control/kill fleas there also. It would be more expensive than DE but if the DE doesn't work the next step could be the Neem Oil.


I can't believe I didn't think about Neem Oil. DUH!  I bought a gallon about 2 years ago and it's still nearly full. You don't need much when you make the mix and it's quite effective.

You can read about it here.


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## horseman09 (Mar 2, 2010)

BillM said:


> Cowboys on trail drives used to stop occasionaly at large ant hills where they would strip down and place their clothes and bed rolls on the ant hils for an hour or two .
> 
> The ants would kill the fleas and lice and they could then brush the ants away and go forth signifigantly de- loused and de- fleaed.


:lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash: Now, *there's* some imagery for you! A bunch of rough, tough cowboys sitting around the campfire ............. buck naked!:lolsmash::lolsmash::lolsmash:

Seriously, I never heard of that before, BillM, but it makes sense.


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## Davarm (Oct 22, 2011)

Have never dealt with lice but I can say that I think that I would rather deal with the critters than roll in ant hills.:surrender:


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## pioneerwife (Feb 6, 2012)

Hello all, I don't know about Advantage, but I can say that Frontline never worked for us because it didn't kill the fleas until they bit my dog. She was allergic to the bites and was miserable. We switched to Biospot and it worked great because it repelled fleas so they wouldn't bite her. Although there is a website biospotvictims saying its terrible, so I guess judge for yourself...

As for the people, yes you see it more and more. Just keep in mind those vet assistants or dental assistants (my favorite are the doctor's receptionists) or whatever had to work VERY HARD to get that tiny little bit of expertise and station they have now, so they are going to play it up to the max. Everyone thinks they know everything, but its only when we realize we are ignorant is when we grow.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I don't let our cats outside. When I was a kid we had outside cats and they seldom lived longer than a year or two. Outside cats are in danger from other cats, people, dogs, hawks, and (depending on where you live), coyotes. It's a personal preference. I don't go nuts and lecture people who let their cats outside!


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

BillS, I know people are against it, we have seldom had an issue with ours, we have our oldest who is almost 11, and he is smarter than any cat I have ever seen. He is not afraid of domsetic dogs, but will come in if he hears coyotes, he seems to know they are not the average domsetic dog. As much as we hate it, he crosses the road, and watches both ways before he does it. I cannot keep that cat in, he would burrow through the walls to get out. Had one country vet a while back tell us there are just some cats that refuse to comply with being indoor cats. 

The other two males, they go out to do their thing and a little hunting, but in at night and adverse weather, and when coyotes are making a fuss. They do not go near the road, too afraid. The girl cat, so far only inside. We plan to get her used to doing her business outdoors, our place is not big and even cleaning a box everyday is not helping the smell. We have secured our backyard for her, fenced and any holes tightened. She is not a climber (too chubby from last owners...maybe diet?), so with a tight fence, she is probably going to be fine, she likely will only be out for the potty breaks, and run back in.


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

Our cats are in and out of the house all the time, and some rarely come in. We've had cats for years, and occasionally one goes missing. They have a good life here, good care and food, love and affection. But ultimately one of the reason we have cats is to keep down the mice in our barn and outbuildings. We only had a mouse in our house once, and one of the cats brought it in to play with, resulting in a bit of a circus fetching the little creature from behind the couch and returning it to the outdoors. We gave it a head start by keeping the cat in the house for a while! 

If the cats get fleas or ticks we get right on it, but we've been amazingly lucky and haven't had much trouble with either.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Our elderly neighbor told us she LOVEs our oldest cat. He is a prolific mouser. He catches voles, mice, shrews and even small field rabbits...and he east whatever he catches too (yes we deworm him frequently due to this). She said before we moved in with our cats, they had all manner of rodents all around their place, and since then, they have not really seen any. In reference to that, when we first moved here, there were shrews and mice all over. You'd turn a stray board over when we were clearing all the left behind junk out, and shrew families would go scurrying, mice too. Everywhere we turned there wee rodents. 

They serve a great purpose and are good buddies to have around too. They love being outdoors (just let my sons kid-like 3 year old male cat out and he went belly crawling towards some birds). Of course if I lived in a place where there wer more cars roaring around and no place for a cat, I too would keep it inside for fear of being hit.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

lilmissy0740 said:


> Is it being fussy or just trying to be someone that they are not, you know I am better than you. Anymore I can barely stand to go to the grocery store. Makes me want to punch a few woman  Nothing the matter with taking care of yourself and your appearance, but for crying out loud, who wears high heels shoes, carries a big huge $400 purse, and her hair doesnt move and her nails were just done at the chinese salon. I run into the grocery store for something, I am in my muck shoes, hair in pony tail and my nails are far from manicured, I play in the dirt. I am not going home to file my nails and watch tv all day. And then they stand in the middle of the aisle as if they own the store. uuugh, fussy isnt the word... IGNORANT is.
> 
> As far as the fleas, put apple cider vinegar in water bowl, feed some garlic and sprinkle diatomaceous earth in your house and vacuum up after a few hours and you can also lightly dust your pets and definitely sprinkle it all in your yard.
> 
> ok not that my post is just a rant also and doesnt make much sense. Goin to put my high heels on to tramp through the snow and fix the fire.


You know you live in the 'Burgh area when you see those snotty women no matter where you go, and they have their cell phones attached to their faces while they drive, no turn signals, and they cross three lanes of traffic to get to an exit while going 100 mph. Oh, and they flip you off because THEY are in a hurry.

I look forward to pulling them over. 

I'll definitely have to try that remedy for fleas. My cat hasn't gotten any yet. I've been meticulously watching for fleas.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

> I look forward to pulling them over.


Salekdarling, I assume you work for law enforcement? Good go get em. I too get tired of those people, we're out west and the only ones out here like that are Californians (no offense intended to our more practical Cali people). They move up here, buy homes on hillsides and have all the trees cut down to improve their views, and then scream and whine when one of our Pacific storms takes out their home to the bottom of the hill. It is always laughable to see them trying to make the county responsible.

They too drive like they own the road. However, we can all remeber where they will be when their end of the cash cow dries up when SHTF and those of us they look down their noses to are living well. So there is retribution eventually.


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