# Buying prop for BOL vs taking over prop when SHTF



## mamak (Nov 28, 2012)

As I've been researching buying land for future homestead/BOL the thought hit me. If SHTF are deeds and titles going to make a difference? So, that had me thinking about how many props are going to be vacant and abandoned when people realize they didn't prepare. What are your thoughts?


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Better to have your own you KNOW is yours and KNOW all there is to know about it. Be a shame to survive and squat somewhere do all kinds of work on it get a nice garden planted then Wake up dead when the owners show up having bugged out to a prepared location where they gathered with their group and which group is now coming to reclaim THEIR property and find sqatters on it. They may or may not feel obliged to let you know their intentions before they just decorate your hide with numerous holes of various calliber. Of course that can happen anywhere from a variety of sources but seems you would be MORE secure on your own place with your own preparations.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

You either have a mindset where you prepare or not. Obviously most people will not prepare for anything. Some that think SHTF will happen and they will just take possession have not thought it thru very well. If things are bad enough that many places are vacant(which I see as a likely eventual scenario) then what? Those places will be picked clean by that time. So you might be able to find shelter but that is all. So are you going to carry supplies to this unknown location? How will you transport those supplies? How will you find this "vacant" ideal homestead? If things are bad enough to have vacant homesteads, do you think roads will be passable and you will have plenty of fuel? And others will just wave when they see you with a huge load of supplies?


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Be careful here. There may be quite a few locals who are choosy about their new neighbors. Plus the owners might show up or a dozen other things may happen. It's best to live in your "BOL" so that the neighbors know you and to be able to defend it against those who would take it from you.

I expect new range wars in the West over all the government land if things get to the point of total government collapse.


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## 101airborne (Jan 29, 2010)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Be careful here. There may be quite a few locals who are choosy about their new neighbors. Plus the owners might show up or a dozen other things may happen. It's best to live in your "BOL" so that the neighbors know you and to be able to defend it against those who would take it from you.
> 
> I expect new range wars in the West over all the government land if things get to the point of total government collapse.


I agree with Mosquito here. Besides how do you define "abandoned"? A piece of property that doesn't have someone living there at that time? A piece of property that looks like someone hasn't been there in weeks? Months? It could be that the owner just hasn't been able to make it to the location YET because of one reason or another. Best off getting your own piece of land and setting up things how you want them. Besides if the owners left due to lack of preps what makes you better able to survive there?


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

mamak said:


> As I've been researching buying land for future homestead/BOL the thought hit me. If SHTF are deeds and titles going to make a difference? So, that had me thinking about how many props are going to be vacant and abandoned when people realize they didn't prepare. What are your thoughts?


Deeds and title indicate legal ownership only, not real-life ownership. Do you have a deed or title to your lawnmower or bike? You still own them right?

In a SHTF scenario, if someone took over my property and then claimed that they owned it because deeds and titles don't mean anything anymore, they'd be finding themselves evicted and into a hole in the ground at the moment of my choosing. If deeds and title don't mean anything anymore, then it's very likely that police and laws don't exist anymore either and that courts and judges have vanished as well. Now justice becomes that much more immediate. That land/house that you stole from me gives me, in my mind, justification to use whatever force I deem necessary to get back what is mine, and just because I don't have a deed to the property stuck in my wallet doesn't invalidate my ownership, just like you still own your bike even without a title to it.

In a PAW I would think that people are going to be more wary and more hair trigger, so the best survival strategy is not to do things which piss people off, and stealing someone's land and claiming that what you've done isn't stealing because deeds and title don't mean anything anymore is certainly something that qualifies as pissing people off.

On a more practical level I think it's better to own your land and prepare that land for YOUR needs in a PAW scenario rather than to begin that process after the SHTF. Doing the prep work before hand means you have a lot of lead time to do things to aid your survival and I expect that each of us will be quite busy after the SHTF so adding the burden of prepping the land or homestead on top of all of the things we'll be needing to do to survive is going to be unmanageable.


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## Reblazed (Nov 11, 2010)

mamak said:


> What are your thoughts?


I'm thinking that if in your SHTF world honesty, integrity and morals have no place ... I don't want to be there. Sorry if you are offended but I find your thought process waaay down the scale of acceptable.

just my opinion tho.


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## Grimm (Sep 5, 2012)

Reblazed said:


> I'm thinking that if in your SHTF world honesty, integrity and morals have no place ... I don't want to be there. Sorry if you are offended but I find your thought process waaay down the scale of acceptable.
> 
> just my opinion tho.


I agree 100%.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

The only way I can figure the second part of it working is if you are willing to buy someone off of it in either Silver or Bullets. Meaning you give them silver, or you deal in lead, friend. 

I've done some reading, and listening to some farmers and they have said that the first years production of anything is horriable. And then your going to try and bring, animals online that the same time? It sounds like it would quickly get over your head on the amount of stuff that would have to be done at one time. 

Having lived in Europe I've realized that land is finite. And their is a clear separation between those that own land and those that don't. That isn't clear right now in the United States. But it will be clear when desperate people need food and no way to produce it. If you move out into the country now, and someone decides they are moving to try and double or triple up on land. Then instead of stealing that land, if they think its so bad that they don't think its going to end. Then you MAY be able to buy the land off of them in Silver and expand your holding of land. You may not be able to work or defend it immediately but after it ends if you survive you would own it, and be able to run some cows, or horses, or whatever on the land you bought. Again during this time you would need to have enough PM or Lead to make the trade and you would need them to quick claim the land over to you, or deed it over if they have the title so their is no recourse along with a couple of witnesses to show they weren't coerced. 

I'm not saying steal land, I'm saying buy land in the country or between the boonies and town. Live on it, and get to know your neighbors. If things get bad enough your neighbors want to move you may be able to buy their land. BUT you won't be trying to steal land, or squatting, and you won't be having to haul priceless (they will be priceless) preps to a location you don't own. They could already be on the location, buried, and hidden for when the time comes.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

I've worked hard to get my BOL and you come on it uninvited, guess what.... if we are in SHTF situation you will be in deep trouble.I to think that morals and the "normal" way people act will be OUT the door.I've gone to a ton of trouble to get my BOL, supplies, and to TRY to be ready...too bad for you..... you should have too!!!!! It may be hard to hang on to a place when you own it free and clear much less if you have become a squatter(people still don't take kindly to them.) I will take whatever action it takes to keep it mine regardless if you walk away or I shoot you where you stand and let the buzzards/ pigs take care of your sorry ass!


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## mamak (Nov 28, 2012)

First, I didn't mean to imply that this is something I'm considering. (I should have went on the computer, on my phone the app only lets me see so much....I had to make it short) 

I am still fairly new to prepping and as I read through this forum you guys give me so many different scenarios to think about how my family would handle each of these. 

I am looking into security and defense for a homestead.....I worry because I have four daughters and not sure how to protect them if a group of surly folk came in with the idea of taking over. That's where I thought if someone wanted my prop, my deed means nothing if I can't defend it. And I wanted to know if that is something any of you have considered. 

That being said yes, I do think I would use someone's abandoned prop if my family needed it. Some of you talk about being on foot for weeks and months.....don't tell me you wouldn't want relief from the elements for your family, especially with little ones. 

Also, this forum is for learning, getting different points of view, sharing ideas, etc.... I didn't realize I would be considered jerk for asking for your thoughts.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

mamak said:


> I worry because I have four daughters and not sure how to protect them if a group of surly folk came in with the idea of taking over. That's where I thought if someone wanted my prop, my deed means nothing if I can't defend it. And I wanted to know if that is something any of you have considered.


This is a completely different scenario from what you posted initially and we can only go with the scenario you lay out.

With regards to protecting yourself in this scenario, you've got the upper hand. First, you're already aware of the issue. Second, you know the strengths and weaknesses of your place. Third, you have time to prepare - I guarantee you that those potential marauders in the future haven't even thought about invading your place and taking over, that this idea and plan won't materialize until the situation demands it, and so you've got the advantage in that you've time to prepare versus those guys setting out to take what is yours on the spur of the moment. Fourth, if it's other people taking your land that worries you, then you having neighbors will likely be to your advantage for no neighbor is going to be comfortable with this precedent of "Might makes Right" playing out right next to them because next week they could be the ones evicted from their own property and so they have reason to back you up.



> That being said yes, I do think I would use someone's abandoned prop if my family needed it. Some of you talk about being on foot for weeks and months.....don't tell me you wouldn't want relief from the elements for your family, especially with little ones.


Look, I get that you're trying to put a reasonable spin on this but this thought too is quite different from your initial scenario - seeking shelter in a storm is quite different from claiming ownership of the shelter simply because you found refuge there during a storm.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

mamak said:


> .. (snip)
> Also, this forum is for learning, getting different points of view, sharing ideas, etc.... I didn't realize I would be considered jerk for asking for your thoughts.


Maybe it was just the way it was phrased, but it came off as you were contemplating, instead of purchasing your own, just taking over a property that you decided had been abandoned. That's why some took offense.

Yes, there probably will be a lot of properties that will be vacant or abandoned, and the number of those will depend on what has taken place. That's why it's so important to make an effort to prepare a place before things go bad. There will be some that go out of their way to make it look as though their property has been abandoned and there is nothing of value there, in hopes that raiders/scavengers will pass it by. Still others may be delayed for sometime in arriving to their BOL. I know if my wife and I are some of the first casualties, we would hope that others in our family group eventually arrive to take the place over.

If things are bad enough, though. Eventually those properties abandoned long term may end up in new hands, but it would be wise for us to not count on it.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

We are just saying that "squatters" at any time is frowned upon(as you can tell on here).If you have children I'm sure most of us would advise you to get your own BOL ASAP.And do like the rest of us..start slowly getting it ready,that way you have a safe place to bug out to with the family.(I paid less than 20,000 dollars for 3 acres and yes it's was financed at first)Many live miles from their BOL other (like me) made the move to their BOL for that very reason.I'm bugging in ...not out! AS far as security, if you own your property you can start with different kinds of security(fencing, off the beaten path, dogs,family with patrols etc.)I have a friend and he has taught his older girls how to handle a weapon(she can almost out shoot me).You might have another couple/family/good friend that NEEEDS the same thing as you do.Safety in numbers can help too(if you TRUST them).One thing for sure..If you own the land you know you have the moral right to defend it,that too will be easier on you and your family as we re-build


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## mamak (Nov 28, 2012)

Yes, I understand. Please forgive me for mentioning movies and tv shows, I'm still new to this.....in The Colony they used a warehouse, the Walking Dead there has been more places to count, in the book series Left Behind they used a city high rise, etc.... I live in the suburbs, we do not have another "safe" place to go. Which is why I've been researching. My thought process was including things like if there was a fire at the neighbors and our home goes up on flames.....where do we go? Yes, of course I would love 10 acres, great water table, two wells, cabin, mostly wooded, yada, yada. But, would it still be there when got there? Would someone already be there? If we own it would that even matter anymore? Hell, we would probably be shot on site anyway. 
So to have a back-up plan, which apparently is a good idea....where would we go? What would we do? If this was a SHTF event most likely there would be quite a few vacant properties, vacant businesses, etc. I'm sure you've thought about what you would do if your BOL wasn't there anymore. 
Again I apologize if my question offended anyone. But to be honest, what I'm still confused about is the fact that taking over an abandoned warehouse or hunting cabin in immoral and lacking integrity but shooting and killing starving people on your property is completely justified.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

If your concerned about Security here is some advice.
1) Talk to an old Grunt, and learn how to make booby traps. I'm not talking about setting them up to claymores. I'm talking about setting them up to Phosphorus Grenades (If you have 'em), loud noise makers, trip flares. Anything to let you know that something is in a certain area.
2) Take Fighting classes. Handgun, Rifle, Distance shooting, CQB (Close Quarters Battle), learn how to clear your house. Learn what to do and what not to do, practice with air soft BB guns in your house. They will let you know you been hit without damaging anything. 
3) Set up natural defenses to the property, grow rose bushes and let 'em get nice and thorny. People don't want to go through thorn bushes so it will help you secure part of the property. 
4) Invite family onto your land. Family members have skills that are useful, and if they are willing to help work the field or set up security and you can feed them, then it may be worth inviting them just for those reasons alone.
5) Camouflage your house, in this day in age people want the biggest fanciest house they can buy. BUT in a WROL (Without Rule of Law) or EROL (Extreme Rule of Law) is to make it so you don't have anything worth taking. 
6) Teach your wife, and your daughters how to defend themselves, get them into classes such as Krav Magra, or a true fighting style that teaches them when your going to die, and you know it react and fight to live. Don't surrender. 

Hope this helps


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

mamak,we would all like 10 acres with a well ,shelter,garden etc already on it(I know I would),but the truth is not everyone can afford nor want to move.With a family it's even harder.If you are determined to stay where you are(or must stay) get to know the people on each side of you and see if they are of "like mind"(or anyone on your block)and "buddy-up".Set up a program and keep a real plan for security,if you at a end street even better,that way I would see what barriers I could "block"myself(and the other families) in(bad guys OUT).If you go OUT,think of ALL the others that will have the same thought........If you stay in and close you KNOW where you are and what's going on.Much easier to defend too.Saftey in numbers can work if you all agree to a plan.I would NOT travel with small children(unless you are going to a BOL) as they tire easy,cry at the wrong time and can be held hostage against you.


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## FatTire (Mar 20, 2012)

I was thinking people were reacting rather harshly to a newb asking a pretty simple question..

Do you have a neighborhood watch? Thats an excellent placeto start securing where you are at now. Next, skils are, imho, more important than stuff. Ive seen the recomendation to take some sort of self defense class, thats fine but remember if it doesnt work on a fully resisti g opponant in the gym, it wont work on the street. 

Asto taking property that mightbe abandoned.. there are many complications to that even forgeting moral concerns. You woukd be much better served getting your own and learning to defend it.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

mamak said:


> ...(snip) I would love 10 acres, great water table, two wells, cabin, mostly wooded, yada, yada. But, would it still be there when got there? Would someone already be there? If we own it would that even matter anymore?... (Snip)
> 
> ...(snip) Again I apologize if my question offended anyone. But to be honest, what I'm still confused about is the fact that taking over an abandoned warehouse or hunting cabin in immoral and lacking integrity but shooting and killing starving people on your property is completely justified.


As with anything, it's a matter of degree. You didn't specify what type of event. If the event is something akin to an economic meltdown where the cities and suburbs become unsafe, but there is relative safety in the country, then the abandoned property idea is really not viable. If it is something closer to nuclear armageddon (sp?) and Mad Max, then mostly likely there will be plenty of vacancies.

Your idea of "shooting and killing starving people on your property" is a bit insulting in the other direction. I don't believe that I have ever seen that particular course of action advocated on this site. However, just as you have invisioned a world rampant with abandoned structures, imagine that you have made one of these your home. Now imagine that your family is near starving, but you manage to get in a crop that promises to at least stave off death until you get your second crop in. After all of that, imagine starving people raiding your garden and taking your family's only hope of survival. What exactly would you do?

We're not trying to be harsh, but we are trying to make you think about what it sounded like you were purposing. Your family is too important to risk on the hope of finding a viable, defensible structure to squat. There are far too many who believe that they do not need to adequately prepare, because they think that they will take what they need from others. I'm not accusing you of being one of these, but we do get defensive about it sometimes. Maybe a bit too defensive. Sorry if we misunderstood your post.

I forgot to mention that in the title of you thread you say "vs taking over prop when SHTF". I think the "taking over" part made people think of "taking by force" and it didn't help the direction of the conversation.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

You could consider getting an RV. You could then be mobile to find a safe location if there was trouble. That way you could also carry alot of preps. There is public land in most states where at least you wouldn't be trespassing.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

mamak said:


> Yes, I understand. Please forgive me for mentioning movies and tv shows, I'm still new to this.....in The Colony they used a warehouse, the Walking Dead there has been more places to count, in the book series Left Behind they used a city high rise, etc....


Look, I won't be flip and tell you that these shows are fictional because I know that you know that, but what I will say is that these shows are constructed by the writers to be dramatic and so EVERYTHING written for those shows works to the purpose of advancing the story, which means that the prepping aspect that you're seeing on the screen isn't anywhere close to being instructional - the writers don't want to instruct about good survival tactics, no, they want to create situations which are loaded with drama, which means that you're going to be seeing adventure and frayed emotions and bad decision making, etc.



> I live in the suburbs, we do not have another "safe" place to go. Which is why I've been researching.


Just the fact that you're researching this puts you ahead of the game compared to all your neighbors.

The basic question that everyone faces is to Bug Out or Bug In. Your choice has been made for you, so work with what you've got.

There is usually a priority list of issues that need to be addressed. Right at the top is having an adequate supply of water in case your municipal supply gets cut off and replacement water cannot be had. Next comes food stores. Next comes security of person and place. After these top 3 you see a lot more variety from people in the same boat as you in that circumstances influence your plan.

If you're bugging in and the circumstances are such that you really do NEED to bug in, you probably do yourself and your family a service by avoiding unnecessary risk, which translates into sitting out the shitstorm that is taking place in your city as events unfold. Now, the trick here is to be well provisioned enough so that you don't have to venture outside and put yourself at risk. Secondly, you have to keep people from coming into your place. This is where I'd focus my planning.

To your original question of vacant properties, well as k0xxx noted there is a HUGE amount of uncertainty in planning on taking over a property and considering that the wellbeing of your family is at stake, that's a big gamble to bet on. What most people do to hedge their risk in case their BIL gets neutralized is to spread out their supplies in hidden caches, which at least gives them enough to deal with immediate survival issues. Perhaps that's worthy of some of your planning time and resources.



> So to have a back-up plan, which apparently is a good idea....where would we go? What would we do? If this was a SHTF event most likely there would be quite a few vacant properties, vacant businesses, etc.


How about family, especially family that might not be in a suburban or urban environment? If that's feasible, then you need a transportation plan in case your home is destroyed. Planning to occupy a neighboring building in case yours goes up in flames strongly suggests to me that houses going up in flames may be a neighborhood phenomena rather than just one house, your house, with all the others untouched, especially when they're all empty and you live in your house. So, if a whole bunch of houses are torched, I'd think that getting out of Dodge might be a safer alternative than squatting in a yet untorched house.



> But to be honest, what I'm still confused about is the fact that taking over an abandoned warehouse or hunting cabin in immoral and lacking integrity but shooting and killing starving people on your property is completely justified.


Property isn't some abstract thing that exists in the universe, it represents the sweat and toil of the people who acquired it, so if you take someone's property from them you've essentially stolen the fruit of their labor, you've made them a slave to you. They worked for what they had and now you've taken it from them. It's generally considered moral for a slave to kill his enslaver and this scenario that we're discussing here is just downstream of that principle. Again to k0xxx's comment - you raise a crop that your family is dependent on and someone comes and steals it from you and now you face the consequences of a winter without food. Why should you shoot anyone who is trying to steal your food, for food is only an inanimate object while people are living human beings?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

There have been many good points raised imo, even if it does sound harsh. It is pretty much antithetical to my way of life, however it is likely that "ownership" of property will be very much in flux in a true worst case scenario. Without getting too far into it, whether or not your neighbors and the larger community believe you have a legitimate claim to a property will matter much more than a piece of paper. With that in mind, people are likely to be much more forgiving of someone living temporarily on government property or corporate property. Taking over an individual or families land is likely to be a death sentence imo. It might be possible that people or groups with large holdings will allow others to live there in return for some exchange, it is also possible that communities will redistribute properties that are considered abandoned.

Either way living, or having someone living at the location where you are hoping to survive is ideal.


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## zracer7 (Apr 17, 2012)

I too have struggled with this delema. As someone who is just starting out, if something major happened I wouldn't be completely screwed but my family would suffer for quite a while. A while back there was a similar thread that talked about this subject and someone made mention that it might be a good idea to look into foreclosed land owned by banks or government, print out all the info on it, and when you bugged out to that location if anyone asks tell them you were in the process of buying it when TSHTF. seemed like a good idea at the time til I realized, with the help of many here on this forum, that that may not be a good idea for reasons stated above; don't know the land, getting there might be difficult, moraders, transporting supplies. So it was back to square one. So, then I started looking up and learning some useful skills like hunting, tanning and working with hides, reloading, security, self defense, plant identification, woodworking, and others to make me a valuable asset to someone who might have the property but have no one to help work and secure the land. That also is a stretch but worst case scenario it may be an option. Then I read Lights Out and realized that maybe living in a somewhat dense community would be beneficial and I could just bug in. Safety in numbers, land nearby to use as crops. Water source nearby. My only advice would be to really analyze where you are at now. You may learn that where you presently are, while not the 10 acre paradise, might be ideal.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

We all have "our own" highest standard and we all have our own lowest standard. When conditions in our life are easy, not demanding, no sweat, we can (most of us, depending on the circumstance) be on our best behavior. We know and follows the rules of society and government, as best fits us. When things get tough, really tough, we begin throwing all of that out the window to accomplish our needs. 

Example: I was raised by Christian parents who were very strict about certain expectations, such as don't steal, tell the truth even if you get in trouble, help others as needed, take care of yourself, don't swear, work hard, save your money, be frugal, and more. 

Since I was raised to work hard and take care of myself and not steal, I have never gone anywhere and stolen any food from a yard, a store or anywhere. If I want or need food, I buy it, grow it, cook it, catch it. I buy, cook and give to others as well. That is my highest standard. I was also not raised to be a helpless girl. I was raised to take out the varmints that are undesired. I was raised in a family where many women homesteaded their own land. So I don't play the helpless role either. (I don't really know how, I don't play that way, I am able and willing to try) The helpless and hysterical type are one type that I do not want to be around when SHTF. I will hurt their feelings, big time.

Now if I am starving and have asked many people for help as well as tried to fend for myself, I might go to a lower standard which is doing what I can to keep myself alive, and that might include breaking in (never done that) and stealing food from somewhere or someone (never done that). But I would have a hard time doing this, as in I would rather die than do something like that. Well, almost.

All of this will be true for many, many people. For me, the scary thing is how some peoples "highest" standard is pretty damned low. Way below my lowest standard. So when the SHTF, there will be plenty of lowlifes willing to take anyone out and put anyone out. No matter what it takes.

So stealing or squatting is not in my plans, but I have said things like, "That will never happen," and you know, it happened. I think that will be true for many of us.


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## musketjim (Dec 7, 2011)

My biggest fear up here is just such a scenario. I've worked hard to get my BOL as self sustaining as I can. I worry about leaving supplies or to much gear. Under martial law, choke points here are easily closed off because of a lack of highways and huge military and LE presence. The highway going south is air force property and is marked as such. Military law enforcement patrols it as well as state troopers. Very easy to block all traffic. Someone will be at my BOL until martial law breaks down and we can fight our way through roving gangs and roadblocks. When we arrive at our occupied BOL we will have to decide whether to burn them out or shoot them out. No win situation either way. The key is to already be at my BOL when it all burns down. That is what I'm working towards now as fast as I can.


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## rhrobert (Apr 27, 2009)

It wouldn't be wise to try it in my area. Neighbors won't be too friendly, nor will I. I'd prefer if you chose another location to squat, because I'll be too busy and tired with day to day stuff to have to dig another hole.

Now, if'n you'd walk up to a neighbor or myself, and talk, versus just squatting on what you presume to be abandoned property, that's a different world. 

We're not unfriendly either...we just don't like folks who think they are entitled to what we have because they didn't prepare or foresee something.


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

I have revived a thread I started months ago with properties for sale in eastern Kentucky. Some have homes, others are just land. It might be something you speak with your family about (moving to the location or just close enough to get there when SHsTF. ) There are medium sized cities here, but the vast majority of the people here are coming around to the 'homesteading' idea and are fully supporting of our local economy.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

My neighbors know who owns my BOL. I just hope they wouldn't be too busy defending their own to care enough about mine.

However, you still gotta be aware of "survival of the fittest". A well-trained and well-armed band of rogues could take out me, my BOL, my neighbors, etc. I guess at that point I won't care if they are squatting because I would be dead. That is ....of course.... the "worst case scenario". I doubt it would ever come to that.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

My first reccomendation then in light of changes is that if you don't have a place to go then plan to stay put and work to defend what you got there. look into fire supression incase of neighboring fires. Think about camoflaging your place as another already burned out looted property. Or learn to make the bio death signs that emergency respons puts on doors to look as if some sort of biohazzzard may reside inside. arm yourself learn to use it and be prepared to do so. Prepare cover so you will have places to fight from. And while you are doing that start looking HARD for some alternates so you WILL have some locations you know you can safely go to or at least safely arrive at as in your scenarios any travel is likely to be dangerous. Once you have a few such locations then you can look onto pre positioning some goods there since you may be leaving ina hurry and not have much stuff with you when you get there. Sounds like you have alot to protect so assign it the priority it deserves and MAKE it happen. If a place is abandoned there is a reason for that. Either there are those in the area that have preyed upon those that live there which means you shoulnd't expect a pass either. Or whatever caused the emergency has also rendered the land untenable. OR it's not really abandoned it's just been made to look that way to hopefuly avoid the hostiles looking for peopel to rob.


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## goshengirl (Dec 18, 2010)

mamak, I think I understood the intent of your original post, because it is something that's on my mind, too.

DH and I have looked at some properties (he's not fully on board, but that's another subject). All are about 1-2 hours drive from our home under current conditions, and I can visualize different ways that we would get to each place. But because the SHTF situation is so nebulous (what exactly will happen?) it's hard to say what conditions we'll have surrounding our getting to a BOL, and what condition we'll find it in.

Then it hits me (and it should have hit me much sooner), what happens if we get there, and someone else is already there? Survival of the fittest wins out over any deed we may have. And we would not be the fittest. I know that. And since we don't live near any of these potential BOLs, we would not have much of an established relationship with the neighbors (some of whom may very well be the people occupying the land).

These are my thoughts, and they're not good. Because I don't see my family coming out on top. We don't have the skills or experience. I know skills and experience are a part of prepping, and I definitely need to work on that with my family, but I'm doing it all the prepping on my own, and not much at that because of a current family illness.

What this thread has made me realize is that I still want the BOL (I will always want physical worth over paper or fiat worth). But we'd need to make sure to immediately get to know the neighbors (which will be hard from a distance, but must be done), so that they know us and hopefully will see us as one of them. I'm beginning to think that neighbor loyalty will go a long way in a SHTF scenario. That and being good with firearms.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

jsriley5 is right. Maybe in your case do what you can with your own house. But back to your thought about vacant houses, if you are bugging in, look at houses within a mile or two from your own. You can look at county websites to see who owns these houses(look for bank owned). Just keep track of two or three for a real emergency( where you get burned out or whatever). Then it would be do-able to get to them on foot in the middle of the night so you at least (maybe) have a spot to hole up and plan.


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