# Commercial wind turbines



## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Up here in New England your tax dollars are encouraging lots of companies to trow up wind turbines. I was wondering if anyone has any thought about using these towers after a collapse? Any one ever think about it or have any expertise? I am presuming you would need an electrical engineer to do it without killing yourself....


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## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

This is an interesting thought. Seems complicated.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

You'd have to be ready to transform the output power down to a usable voltage, and this would depend on whether you would use the power right there at the source or transmit to a tapped output down the line somewhere, in which case you'd also have to terminate the line or risk frying someone. I would think that doing the necessary wiring terminations from ground-level would be easiest. The biggest hurdle is providing power to the unit for controlling the azimuth and turbine blade pitch in order to face it into the wind to get it turning. That may require some serious batteries and 240 or 480VAC power inverters. The plus side of that is the same batteries to power the control unit could power your electrical needs when the wind is not strong enough for wind turbine output...set-up as a typical off-grid RE system. It would be an engineering nightmare for the average Joe, but with some determination, lots of time and scavenging for some resources, it could be done.

The other use for these towers could be a long-range recon/sentry post, as wind farms (at least around here) are usually up on a ridge, though some are on slopes. The added elevation could give one some advantage, not to mention the additional tower height.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

If nothing else it could provide shelter from the elements over night.


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## cnsper (Sep 20, 2012)

There was an episode of Dirty Jobs where they climbed up inside one to service it. Not a lot of room in there. Not going to be of use for very long.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

forluvofsmoke said:


> ...The biggest hurdle is providing power to the unit for controlling the azimuth and turbine blade pitch in order to face it into the wind to get it turning. ...


Could a person wait until the wind is from the direction the windmill is already pointing? Once the blades start turning then use the self generated power to set the azimuth and blade pitch?

Servicing? Take all windmills off line except two. Kept the two going until thy need more maintenance then what a person's skill set can provide. Use the "dying" one to power up a replacement.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I wonder just how many will be around anyway. It is easy to find many videos and still pictures of what happens when they turn too fast (like when the brakes fail). Videos of them just flying apart or catching on fire.

https://www.google.com/search?q=windmill+exploding&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Could a person wait until the wind is from the direction the windmill is already pointing? Once the blades start turning then use the self generated power to set the azimuth and blade pitch?
> 
> Servicing? Take all windmills off line except two. Kept the two going until thy need more maintenance then what a person's skill set can provide. Use the "dying" one to power up a replacement.


You could, in theory, power up the controls from it's own source. And, being there are numerous turbines at any given wind farm, all wired together at some point, sure, run a couple until they die and bring a few more online. Again, some engineering may be involved, as the controls are powered from the grid, as far as I know (if the grid goes black with no turbines online, there's no wind power to be harvested, unless, possibly, some turbines are positioned correctly). So, a back-feed from the converter/inverter circuit, and possibly through the step-up transformer (or bypass the step-down transformer on the unit controller), may just be all that is needed. I've read that the commercial units generate somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-700VAC, which is then converted to DC, then back to AC through a syncronous inverter, then finally through a transformer where it is stepped-up to line voltages for power transmission. Each unit's generated power must pass through syncronous controls so that each unit will match up with the grid's alternating current cycles...just as a syncronous inverter for a grid-tied residential RE (wind/PV/hydro) system. Each separate turbine does not necessarily need it's own syncronous inverter, as many could be passed through one inverter from the DC side to the AC sync, then on through a transformer, provided that gear could handle the total output from the combined turbines. The only wind turbines I've seen have a pad-mounted transformer at each tower base, but I'm not 100% sure if that's a step-down transformer to power the unit's controller, or a step-up transformer for grid-tie power transmission voltages...I'm thinking it's the step-up transformer based solely on it's size, as I have never been on the properties and been close enough to touch one. They do have a facility among the wind turbines, likely with a control/monitoring room for human intervention if the system can't take care of itself (they're automated, based on wind direction, speed, power demand, etc).

Without having a back-up power source in lieu of the grid to power the controller circuits, it would be somewhat unreliable (and you'd only have power with favorable winds), though with a sentry watching things and waiting for the wind to be favorable, and then being able to bring the unit on line, sure, it could be done...almost anything can be done with a little ingenuity and use of proper resources. In, say, a PAW, a small group could provide themselves power generation...that is, if everything went down the poop-chute and nobody was pulling security for the power company...or, your group over-ran their security. Either way, you could "sell" power down-stream for mutually agreed upon goods/services from others through a simple barter system, right?

Here's a possible scenario for bringing a turbine or 3 online: If one had, say 6 wind turbines and used the power of just one to bring the remaining 5 into a configuration of azimuth where all were faced equally away from each other by a 60* azimuth separation (360 / 6 = 60) you would pretty much cover the wind direction for any given wind event to get one of them online when the winds were strong enough to produce power. Most of the time, you could rely on prevailing wind direction alone, but not always. Just go through a shut-down process before you lost the wind, and set your azimuth for each given turbine position in relation to the one you want to keep online for that last bit of power generation before the wind settles down in the evening (typical, unless it's stormy weather). Let the one that's producing power continue until the wind was insufficient to do any work. The next wind event you'd not really need to do much...just sit back and wait for one to start producing again. Now, granted, just one turbine could produce a peak output of far more than any small community of survivor's could possibly need, however, having the ability to bring addition units online could be to your advantage. One could fail, suddenly, and even catastrophically. Without a back-up set and ready to turn out power, you're back to square one, until the winds change in your favor again.

I'm no educated engineer, but, back in my early years I was told by an aptitude tester that I should have studied the fields of electrical, mechanical and/or structural engineering...I just didn't have it in me at the time, and, probably would not have been my cup of tea, anyway. Now I ponder the idea of having a Master's degree in these 3 fields and all the things I could have accomplished...water under the bridge. I can figure things like the OP's proposed scenario out, given some time and a good enough reason...SHTF such as WROL/PAW would be good enough reason, for sure...and I don't live that far away from the opportunity, myself. I just need a little push to get me started, once in a while. I'm sure I'm not the only one around here with the brains to do it...even if we're not educated in that field...you just need some basic knowledge of what makes things work the way they do (or, the fortitude to find out on the fly), and the drive and ambition to make it come together.

What we do not know about these facilities is how much effort the power company will put forth towards keeping it secure, given the nature of the situation. If it's WROL, they may not have local police support, or that of our armed services. Will their employees walk away to take care of their own, or try to keep it online, to take care of their own? If they walk away, maybe just borrow their equipment until the situation returns to some form of normalcy. If they don't walk away, offer to help them keep it online...they may just give you some on-the-job training and put you to work in trade for providing you and others with intermittent electrical power. I know, I'm digging deep here...I don't have any, or very little for answers...just more questions.


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