# Next pandemic ?



## rjdpj

So we all know its flu season , but what i didn't know until a yesterday was that some types of te flu strain only need to mutate a couple of more times and then could effectively be a plague . Also bird flu only needs one more change . Knowing that viruses such as the flu mutate and change all the time , what is your opinion and what will you do in the case of a pandemic ?


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## UncleJoe

rjdpj said:


> what is your opinion and what will you do in the case of a pandemic?


Actually looks like were on our way to one now. We plan to hunker down at home if things should take a more frightening turn for the worse. We were just talking about that this afternoon. There is nowhere we absolutely must go so we are going to watch its progression from the comfort of our living room, far from any social situations.


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## rjdpj

UncleJoe said:


> Actually looks like were on our way to one now. We plan to hunker down at home if things should take a more frightening turn for the worse. We were just talking about that this afternoon. There is nowhere we absolutely must go so we are going to watch its progression from the comfort of our living room, far from any social situations.


I agree , i just read about flu shot shortages , so in the event this does happen , what are some things you will be doing around the house to take extra measures of precaution ?


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## Friknnewguy

I got my flu shot yesterday . I normally don't get one , but this is no normal flu . Like Uncle Joe I'm ok to hunker down here and try to contain our healthy air .


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## rjdpj

Friknnewguy said:


> I got my flu shot yesterday . I normally don't get one , but this is no normal flu . Like Uncle Joe I'm ok to hunker down here and try to contain our healthy air .


I haven't had time to get one yet , but then agian I've ha every body tell me left and right not to get one cause im healthy and it isn't needed , so , and i know some people would put on plastic sheets on their windows would this even be effective ?


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## FrankW

Its both contagious and packs awallop.
I usually dont get sick at all even when others do and I am in close contatc w/ them..yet this had me knocked out for 2 full days (still am kinda sickly 2 weeks later)

Its very unusual for me for still be sick at all, after a couple Vitamin C tablets and a good nights sleep so its pretty potent stuff.


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## FrankW

rjdpj said:


> I haven't had time to get one yet , but then agian I've ha every body tell me left and right not to get one cause im healthy and it isn't needed , so , and i know some people would put on plastic sheets on their windows would this even be effective ?


Infection with such viruses is all in social situations.

Outside air will be safe as sunlight and oxygen generally kill viruses with ease.
(they survive being coughed or touched on you via being protected by mucus of other moisture)


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## jsriley5

Waash hands often like really weirdo type of often. Don't touch your face or any food until you have washed stay away from mass people if you can go to the super center at one int he morning for shopping when no one is there and wash everything carefully when you get it home. If it takes a ugly turn stay home and eat your stores rather than venture out among the sickies. Least that is what I would do and do do



he he he I said doo doo


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## rjdpj

BlueZ , so does it feel just like the normal flu or does it really pack a punch ? I just read on yahoo that its starting to combine with the stomach bug and whooping cough . Sounds terrible .


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## *Andi

It may or may not be ...

The media tells us what they want us to hear. To be honest, I lost all faith in "News and the media" a long time ago. They could be telling the truth or doing what they do all the time ... (We need to make it Bigger than the the other guys)

I will keep doing what I have been ... Note to self ... make more theives oil.

It may all be true, then again it may be just the LSM ...


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## rjdpj

*Andi said:


> It may or may not be ...
> 
> The media tells us what they want us to hear. To be honest, I lost all faith in "News and the media" a long time ago. They could be telling the truth or doing what they do all the time ... (We need to make it Bigger than the the other guys)
> 
> I will keep doing what I have been ... Note to self ... make more theives oil.
> 
> It may all be true, then again it may be just the LSM ...


Very bold point  ! , but you can't deny the footage of over flowing hospitals throughout America . One even with tents set up .


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## Friknnewguy

2 people in my county are dead , kinda makes this one tough to ignore . Hope your better soon BZ.


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## Boomy

Couple died in my county yesterday too


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## FrankW

rjdpj said:


> BlueZ , so does it feel just like the normal flu or does it really pack a punch ? I just read on yahoo that its starting to combine with the stomach bug and whooping cough . Sounds terrible .


Well I think it might be RSV and not a real flu.

A real Flu knocks people out completely and they cannott walk etc.

Most folks who call in sick and say they have the flu really dont have the flu but just a stroing cold or RSV.

RSV is also strong this seasosn.

Since my disease response is so non typical and nearly always less than normal, I cannot say for certain whether i had RSV or the Flu.

When my (ex) wife, even almost 20 yrs my junior would always get much sicker form the same bug......... I might get the same one but only be sick for an afternoon (if at all) and after a nap and some vitamin C would be good as new.

The fact this it kept me in bed at all is very unusual..so I dont know...

My disease presntation always seems to give me a winbdow in the morning of feeling normal and no fever no matter how sick I am.

But this time I actually had 2 mornings where i was still anyway despite it beng morning.


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## *Andi

rjdpj said:


> Very bold point  ! , but you can't deny the footage of over flowing hospitals throughout America . One even with tents set up .


True ...

(BUT) Yea, you knew that was coming ... 

People die from the flu each year. (fact) But what is the true Number ??? I have read something like this ...

From 2011 ~ All these years we've been told there are 36,000 U.S. flu deaths each year, straight from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control's leading shills, and endlessly parroted by the national media (taking big advertising dollars from the CDC to promote the party line).

While ~ quietly and with no fanfare last August 2010, small obscure stories appeared in various media health sections that the CDC's Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report (the MMWR) had revised its annual 36,000 deaths by flu down to a range of 3,000 to 49,000 flu-associated deaths. And earlier this year the CDC website (if you dig hard for it) also put it in writing.

Then they go on th say ... CDC makes it abundantly clear these 3K to 49K "flu-associated" deaths are not actually counted, but are instead estimates generated from computer models that hypothetically link such as pneumonia deaths to those theoretically having a prior case of influenza ...

Again ... People do die from the flu each year ... Yes.

But the question was is this the "Next pandemic"?

Which I said, "It may or may not be."

I don't trust the media (sorry) they are out for the numbers. (not for you or me) IMO

Reasearch is your friend.  IMO (LOL)


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## PFCHAWK

I believe the flu shot is the governments way to infect us all.......0-0


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## Startingout-Blair

Definitely not to be ignored! I had the flu shot months ago and I still got this. And yes, you get a whooping type of cough with it. Don't want to love, tired as hell, nausea, fever, etc. it is really bad. I got Tamaflu from the doctor the day after it hit me, and I still felt that bad. My buddy in Virginia, who never misses a day of work, was off a whole week sick. He had the flu shot too. Neither of us have recovered totally yet.


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## *Andi

Startingout-Blair said:


> Definitely not to be ignored! I had the flu shot months ago and I still got this. And yes, you get a whooping type of cough with it. Don't want to love, tired as hell, nausea, fever, etc. it is really bad. I got Tamaflu from the doctor the day after it hit me, and I still felt that bad. My buddy in Virginia, who never misses a day of work, was off a whole week sick. He had the flu shot too. Neither of us have recovered totally yet.


But is it the flu? (and/or pandemic)

2 of 4 of my grandbabies have "something" (Which the doctors said, "they didn't know what is was.") Whooping type of cough, (check) fever, (check)
and tired (check) ... 1 of the two had the flu shot ...

Today was the first day in a week that either were up to play or anything else. Both went to the doctor and both were cleared of the flu (and a number of other things)

I guess both doctors were being honest ... one said they didn't know and the other said it was a bug of some kind. (Please pay at the counter)


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## Caribou

First I got the gut problems then the cough. It has been two weeks now.


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## *Andi

Per todays report from the CDC  ...

7.3 percent of deaths last week caused by "pneumonia" and the flu ...

The threshold for an epidemic is that it causes more than 7.2 percent of deaths, but as yet there is no definitive count of the total caused by flu this year.

This year's flu vaccine is 62 percent effective ...

'MODERATELY EFFECTIVE' VACCINE

While flu vaccines offer protection, they are not failsafe

It is less effective for the frail elderly, for people receiving chemotherapy for cancer, and for people taking oral steroids, as their immune systems have been weakened and are often unable to produce an effective number of antibodies in response to the vaccine.

MAY HAVE PEAKED ...

The percentage of visits to healthcare providers last week for flu-like illness - 4.3 percent - is comparable to that during the 2007-2008 flu season, which was characterized as "moderately severe" but which peaked some two months later. By comparison, in the 2009 H1N1 "swine" flu pandemic, 7.7 percent of visits were for flu-like illness ... ~ Note the flu-like illness. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/11/us-usa-flu-idUSBRE9080WD20130111

It is the Media folks!

It may be true or not ...


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## Davarm

rjdpj said:


> BlueZ , so does it feel just like the normal flu or does it really pack a punch ? I just read on yahoo that its starting to combine with the stomach bug and whooping cough . Sounds terrible .


That stomach bug went through our house a few weeks ago, pretty nasty but none of us got the flu or respiratory symptoms.


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## Erick3758

Beginning of dec I had a head cold.by dec 15 th it was shingles.a couple of days later i had bells palsey.it affected the right side of my face.worst pain I can ever remember having.im 41 years old.im normally very healthy.


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## Erick3758

Thank god we have money and stuff put away.i was out of work for a month.the doctors in the hospital said they are seeing a lot of younger people with it this year.


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## Startingout-Blair

Erick3758 said:


> Beginning of dec I had a head cold.by dec 15 th it was shingles.a couple of days later i had bells palsey.it affected the right side of my face.worst pain I can ever remember having.im 41 years old.im normally very healthy.


Believe it or not, whole working for the Dept of Defense quite a few years ago, I developed shingles at age 35. The doctor said it was strange to get it at such a young age, but definitely not unheard of. And yes! They are really painful! I couldn't wear a shirt for two weeks and was not permitted out in public (with or without a shirt...lol)


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## mma800

Here in Massachusetts, the hospitals are setting up tents, the emergency rooms have waits longer than 24 hours to be seen, and staff have been required to do double shifts to cover the overload. Visiting hours are being temporarily eliminated or reduced.
I was at Target yesterday and they were out of flu shot and turning people away. Some people had been to their doctors office, flu clinics and local pharmacies with no luck.
I have a few relatives who have been sick since before Christmas. We haven't been around them though.
I gave each of my kids an index card with 5 boxes on it. They are to wash their hands at school and check the box each time they do. Prizes will be given for compliance!
I set up a sick room yesterday. I have been Lysol- ing daily and staying away from anyone sick. My husband works at a hospital and my 3 kids are at 3 different schools. I would bet its just a matter of time before someone in my house gets some type of bug.
I personally don't think this is the next pandemic- just a bad flu season. I am not taking any chances though.


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## DJgang

mma800 said:


> Here in Massachusetts, the hospitals are setting up tents, the emergency rooms have waits longer than 24 hours to be seen, and staff have been required to do double shifts to cover the overload. Visiting hours are being temporarily eliminated or reduced.
> I was at Target yesterday and they were out of flu shot and turning people away. Some people had been to their doctors office, flu clinics and local pharmacies with no luck.
> I have a few relatives who have been sick since before Christmas. We haven't been around them though.
> I gave each of my kids an index card with 5 boxes on it. They are to wash their hands at school and check the box each time they do. Prizes will be given for compliance!
> I set up a sick room yesterday. I have been Lysol- ing daily and staying away from anyone sick. My husband works at a hospital and my 3 kids are at 3 different schools. I would bet its just a matter of time before someone in my house gets some type of bug.
> I personally don't think this is the next pandemic- just a bad flu season. I am not taking any chances though.


Tell them to blow their noses too every time they go to the bathroom. Virus gets in nose hairs.

If we go somewhere, we immediately use hand santizer in the vehicle and putting some around our nose too.

Tea tree oil, Rosemary oil, clove oil, eucalyptus oil mixture swabbed up nose will make a barrier.

Don't use hand santizer all the time. It actually decreased the immune system.

Also, with each load of laundry, use 1/8 of Lysol Complete or all purpose cleaner, like the lemon scented kind. I use this all the time anyway.

All these advice from my natural doc.

Also, wouldn't hurt to increase intake of elderberry syrup, honey, etc. I can link recipe, but I think there is a thread about that here.

Copy and paste from my doc
PREVENTION:
*
*************** Monolaurin 600mg (with food)
*******************Adult dose:* 1 breakfast and 1 dinner***************
*
*****************Monolaurin 300mg (with food)
***************************Adult dose:* 2 breakfast and 2 dinner
***************************Child dose:** 1 breakfast and 1 dinner
*
**
*************** Virotox (at least 15 minutes away from food)
****************************Adult dose: 2 drops Monday, Wednesday and Friday in a small amount
************************************************of water
****************************************************
*************************** Child dose (12 years and younger): 1 drop Monday and Friday
*
*
IF FLU SYMPTOMS OCCUR:
*
****************** Monolaurin 600mg (with food)
*******************************Adult dose:* 1 breakfast, lunch and dinner
*
*******************Monolaurin 300mg (with food)
********************************Adult dose:* 2 breakfast, lunch and dinner
********************************Child dose (12 years and younger):* 1 breakfast, lunch and dinner
******************************* Infant dose:* 1/2 capsule in applesauce or yogurt at breakfast and
******************************************************dinner
*
******************* Virotox (at least 15 minutes away from food)
********************************Adult dose:* 4 drops every 4 hours**
********************************Child dose:* 2 drops every 2 hours
*
********************Occilococcinun at onset: follow*directions*
*
*
OTHER AVAILABLE SUPPLEMENTS:
*
******************* Engystol***************************** Guna-Flu
******************* LDM 100**************************** Flu Tonic
******************* Lymphoplex
*
*
Please use 1/8 cup of*Liquid Lysol*Complete with your regular detergent to help kill bacteria and viruses.* Please be sure to change bed sheets, pillow cases and towels*daily and wash them*with the Liquid Lysol.
*


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## mma800

Great advice DJ!

I forgot to add that using disposable cups, plates and utensils is helpful. I also swear by the paper hand towels in the bathroom.
I ordered 2 bottles of elderberry on Thursday from amazon.com. I also take the kids coats and run for 30 min in the dryer when they get home from school everyday. They are washed every Saturday, but I may do Tuesday AND Saturday now. Hats and mittens are washed everyday.
Bed sheets are washed 2x a week. I would change sick room sheets everyday if someone is sick. I also run the comforters thru the dryer 2x a week.

I found the Sick Room link at www.emergencyhomepreparation.org

I am sure I am overdoing it, but it keeps me off the crack pipe! LOL:laugh:


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## oldasrocks

We are SIPing now. Older, retired and plenty of supplies.

The only thing I found we are short on is Lysol spray. The plan was to spray the mail and newspaper before we touch them as its the only outside contact we have. WHOOPS, have to figure out something else to spray with.


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## rjdpj

I agree , freat advice DJ , and as fr every body else i really agree with all of your opinions  . And what i don't understand is , i thought that the government had to make sure there were more than enough flu vaccines or any vaccine for that matter , so why are there shortages ?


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## rjdpj

Also , im wanting to make a sick room , can somebody tell me exactly what i need to do  ? What to put in there, where it should be , etc


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## FrankW

My cough won't go away and its been 2 weeks now .. it only appeared when I wa sotherwise nearly well


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## Rainy13

Sure hope all of you that are sick get well really soon.. 
No i don't think this is the next pandemic...... but there again you just never really know...I could always be wrong, and i hope i am..
So far the things we are doing is spraying Lysol on EVERYTHING... keys, doorknobs, phones,if it can be sprayed i spray it, including all my stuff from the store.....we had the flu shot(we do every year) I am staying away from places and using my storage.. I figure i can restock after this stuff is over.. My Hubby does have to work but everyone there is really trying to keep things wiped down with the wipes and sprayed. Also even though its cold i have been opening up my house everyday for at least 15 mins....figure it can't hurt.A lady on another board years ago told me to do this.
Don't know if any of this will help but i am doing my best to try and make sure my crew doesn't get sick.


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## stayingthegame

keep what is called a dakin solution on hand and use it everywhere. it is a bleach solution that will sterilize things.
http://www.webmd.com/drugs/drug-62261-Dakin's+Misc.aspx?drugid=62261&drugname=Dakin's+Misc

Dakin's solution is used to kill germs and prevent germ growth in wounds. This
recipe for Dakin's solution may save you money and allow you to fix only the
amount you need. Another name for this is diluted sodium hypochlorite solution
0.5%.
Supplies:
 Sodium hypochlorite solution 5.25% (Clorox® or similar household bleach).
 Be sure to purchase unscented bleach. We do not recommend using ultra bleach products that are more concentrated and thicker.
 Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda)
 Clean tap water
 Clean pan with lid
 Sterile measuring cup and spoons (use a dishwasher on highest setting for hot water and heat)
 Sterile jar with sterile lid (see above)
Making the Solution:
1. Wash your hands well with soap and water.
2. Gather your supplies.
3. Measure out 32 ounces (4 cups) of tap water. Pour into the clean pan.
4. Boil water for 15 minutes with the lid on the pan. Remove from heat.
5. Using a sterile measuring spoon, add ½ teaspoonful of baking soda to the
boiled water.
6. Your doctor may prescribe one of several strengths. Measure bleach
according to the chart and add to the water also:
Full Strength
¼ Strength
½ Strength
Clorox
3 oz. ( or 95ml)
1 Tbsp + ½ tsp.
1 Tbsp + 2 tsp
Water
32 oz
32 oz
32 oz
7. Place the solution in a sterile jar. Close it tightly with the sterile lid. Cover
the entire jar with aluminum foil to protect it from light.
8. Throw away any unused portion 48 hours after opening. Unopened jars can be
stored for one month after you have prepared them.


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## Axelight

Check out the documentary After Armageddon, it gives a really good (and frightening) depiction of how bad things could get when the next pandemic hits. I think it was the subject of another thread some months back.


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## MetalPrepper

What I find interesting is theat I am a "germaphobe", so I have always been in fear of a pandemic, in fact that was the catalist for my "preppernes".....but as this thing has unfolded....s-l-o-w-l-y.....I realize from hindsidt, I AM NOT PREPARED....nor am I or my husband acting accordingly!
We were at a gig (band) of his last night.....I can't tell you how many people got close to me and yelled over the music, spewing germs! Hugs, cross contaminating of drinks, food....aaaaagggggggrrrhhhhh!!!!
We have already survived the flu (see ealier post on same)....but there are different strains and I (we) are NOT acting like I had imagined me (us) acting.
Also ....what goood does it do me to be aware and on gaurd when he plays guitar with his hands, that touched peopel nd doors and puts said pick in his mouth!!>?
Arrrrrggghhh!!!
We are doomed !!!


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## FrankW

Update:

I am taking a slight turn for the worse, thrown gup again feeling disconnected and all that.
very unusual for me since I am at the end of week 2 and had been back at work over a week now.
I have to drive 250 miles tomorrow for a 10 week assignment starting monday so hopefully it will be fine.

last time I had a bug that affected me this long was 1998.


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## rjdpj

BlueZ , that's sucks , hope you feel better


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## kejmack

Friknnewguy said:


> 2 people in my county are dead , kinda makes this one tough to ignore . Hope your better soon BZ.


People die of the flu EVERY year. They die of lots of other stuff, too...diabetes, heart disease, asthma, etc. The news likes to hype the flu stories--it's called RATINGS. Just like they act when there is an approaching storm.

The average number of flu deaths is 36,000 each year.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm


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## ReadyMom

I actually got my start in prepping through my concern of a flu pandemic. Have attended national & local meetings & summits for pandemic preparation for an Avian(Bird) flu pandemic. I've been a co-founder of a non profit group of parents that promoted education of families in pandemic preparation and I co-founded the 'Get Pandemic Ready' website. So ...to answer opening question:

*Although this situation IS GROWING, this situation is developing into an 'Epidemic' *(_when the number of people who become infected rises well beyond what is expected within a country or a part of a country._)

*It is not yet a 'Pandemic' *(_When the infection takes place in several countries at the same time_)

The number of people that are becoming ill & hospitalized are far ahead of what is usual for this time of the year, and for this phase of the flu season.

This year's vaccine covers the 3 BEST estimates of what flu folks are expected to get, based on the flu strains that recently circulated. Unfortunately, there seems to be a flu strain that had mutated (changed) enough that the vaccine is not protecting. This strain is nasty, and making people VERY ill and those people seem to be taking longer to get better.

There are currently reports of shortages of flu vaccine & the flu medicine called 'Tamiflu' (which works best when taken within 48 hours of onset of symptoms). I have seen reports of shortages of cold/flu meds for children in some areas, as well as shortages of N95 masks.

A large number of hospitals are overflowing with admitted patients and those going to emergency rooms. Some hospitals have begun to set up triage tents in their parking lots for the overflow and to help keep the flu patients away from the other 'every-day' patients. Some hospitals are limiting visitors.

The large numbers you may be hearing/seeing in the Main-stream-media are not being manipulated. In fact you are probably seeing an UNDER-REPORT of the numbers of ill and those that have died.

High Risk patients include: small children, elderly, PREGNANT women, those with secondary health concerns.

NO ... the vaccine can NOT give you the flu. I did MANY public presentations with the head of the virology department for Penn-State Hershey Medical Center. He was ADAMENT about this point. He & his family get the vaccine every year. If you get the flu, right after you get the vaccine, then you were most likely infected with the virus before you got the vaccine or before the vaccine was working in your body at full capacity. It takes about 10 days for the vaccine to take full effect. So, in those 10 days ... you can get infected. But the vaccine does NOT give you the FLU. You *may* have some mild symptoms from the vaccine ... but NOT the flu. Many people do not understand this part of getting the vaccine.

YES ... there is some preservatives in the flu vaccine. SMALL amt. of mercury is one. It's VERY small. You CAN request a 'Preservative Free' form of the vaccine. They are available. Ask your doctor or pharmacist.

I believe that now that schools have gone back into session, we will begin to see some school closures to curb the spread. I have already read the report of one school doing so. So far, Nationally, I have seen the report of 18 pediatric deaths.

I can point you to a couple of forums that are dedicated to flu coverage, but am not sure if I am allowed to post those links here. Admin is this allowed?? If not, anyone can pm me and I'll provide you with those links. I am also tracking state by state on another forum I frequent. Again ... link available if you pm me.

YES ... I recommend that you get your cough/cold/flu med in your supplies NOW, if you are still able. Then you'll be ready, when it comes through your community. I have several handout materials formatted, if anyone is interested for: 'Pandemic Parenting', 'Flu Buddies', Sick Room Supplies.

Oh ... the sick room link someone posted earlier is actually from my website! There is EXTENSIVE information on what you can put in your prep supplies to have at-the-ready if a home-sick-room is needed.

I'll go back and re-read the posts on this thread to see if there's anything I missed. Hope this helps! -k


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## ReadyMom

*Andi said:


> True ...
> 
> (BUT) Yea, you knew that was coming ...
> 
> People die from the flu each year. (fact) But what is the true Number ??? I have read something like this ...
> 
> From 2011 ~ All these years we've been told there are 36,000 U.S. flu deaths each year, straight from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control's leading shills, and endlessly parroted by the national media (taking big advertising dollars from the CDC to promote the party line).
> 
> While ~ quietly and with no fanfare last August 2010, small obscure stories appeared in various media health sections that the CDC's Weekly Morbidity and Mortality Report (the MMWR) had revised its annual 36,000 deaths by flu down to a range of 3,000 to 49,000 flu-associated deaths. And earlier this year the CDC website (if you dig hard for it) also put it in writing.
> 
> Then they go on th say ... CDC makes it abundantly clear these 3K to 49K "flu-associated" deaths are not actually counted, but are instead estimates generated from computer models that hypothetically link such as pneumonia deaths to those theoretically having a prior case of influenza ...
> 
> Again ... People do die from the flu each year ... Yes.
> 
> But the question was is this the "Next pandemic"?
> 
> Which I said, "It may or may not be."
> 
> I don't trust the media (sorry) they are out for the numbers. (not for you or me) IMO
> 
> Reasearch is your friend.  IMO (LOL)





kejmack said:


> People die of the flu EVERY year. They die of lots of other stuff, too...diabetes, heart disease, asthma, etc. The news likes to hype the flu stories--it's called RATINGS. Just like they act when there is an approaching storm.
> 
> The average number of flu deaths is 36,000 each year.
> http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm


Actually .... that 36,000 number is inaccurate. _That # is controversial and not cut in stone. I posted the following on another thread, regarding the that number quoted as an annual death rate for flu:

Here it is again, for those new to the discussion:_

*Regarding the # of annual deaths from seasonal flu:* There has been a lot of conversation about that number being used. Some folks have really dug to get more information and track that number. There have been several blogs written about it and some reports have been published that are disputing that number.

*Here's an interesting note from Science Daily explaining how the 30,000 + number is only an ESTIMATE,* not an actual number for seasonal flu deaths: 
Are U.S. Flu Death Figures More PR Than Science? ScienceDaily, December 10, 2005

"The CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza. Thus the much publicised figure of 36,000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate - generated by a model"


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## ReadyMom

Regarding sambucol/elderberry, this is a VERY good item to have in your supplies. There have been much written on the topic of using this. On another forum that I frequent, a person who is in the medical field wrote the following:



> Sambucol has been proven in several double blind clinical trials to prevent influenza. The trials are publishd and indexed in Pubmed. It binds to the receptors that the influenza virus would bind too, so that there is "no room at the in" for the viron. I buy it by the case. It is a lozenge (or syrup) form of elderberry. Pills will not work since they are digested in the stomach/intestines and you need this in the back of your mouth.


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## ReadyMom

rjdpj said:


> So we all know its flu season , but what i didn't know until a yesterday was that some types of te flu strain only need to mutate a couple of more times and then could effectively be a plague . Also bird flu only needs one more change . Knowing that viruses such as the flu mutate and change all the time , what is your opinion and what will you do in the case of a pandemic ?


Last I heard we are about THREE mutations away from a pandemic version of the Bird Flu. As of Dec 17, 2012, the current death rate from the Avian/Bird (H5N1) flu is 83.3% in Indonesia (Source: World Health Organization;http://www.who.int/influenza/human_animal_interface/H5N1_cumulative_table_archives/en/index.html ) . Mutations can happen slow, or they can be unexpected and quick. So,it's prudent to be aware of this flu virus ... keep an eye on it. Again, the flu forums that I mentioned,earlier, follow this H5N1/Bird flu VERY closely!


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## ReadyMom

*I would suggest that forum members be vigilant in their hygiene habits for this flu season::*

-Use the cart wipes provided in the stores (I actually wrap them around the cart handles and leave them there till I'm done shopping).

-Use the plastic gloves provided @ the gas stations when pumping your own gas. Use your hand sanitizer when done, if no gloves are available.

-Make sure to use your hand sanitizer before getting a quick bit while out holiday shopping, if easy access to wash hands is not available in that busy season! If someone was coughing in their hands and touched what you touch ... the virus is on that item and will be there for a couple of days.

-If some one is coughing and sneezing .... get out of their spread zone. Make sure you change out of those clothes as soon as you get home, if you were coughed and sneezed on :bored: .

- Cough into your upper arm, elbow. (Don't forget that others are hopefully doing that too, so, if you are a touchy-feely person, don't reach out and hold that area of someones arm, when you say 'hello' ).


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## rjdpj

ReadyMom said:


> I would suggest that forum members be vigilant in their hygiene habits for this flu season::
> 
> -Use the cart wipes provided in the stores (I actually wrap them around the cart handles and leave them there till I'm done shopping).
> 
> -Use the plastic gloves provided @ the gas stations when pumping your own gas. Use your hand sanitizer when done, if no gloves are available.
> 
> -Make sure to use your hand sanitizer before getting a quick bit while out holiday shopping, if easy access to wash hands is not available in that busy season! If someone was coughing in their hands and touched what you touch ... the virus is on that item and will be there for a couple of days.
> 
> -If some one is coughing and sneezing .... get out of their spread zone. Make sure you change out of those clothes as soon as you get home, if you were coughed and sneezed on :bored: .
> 
> - Cough into your upper arm, elbow. (Don't forget that others are hopefully doing that too, so, if you are a touchy-feely person, don't reach out and hold that area of someones arm, when you say 'hello' ).


I totally agree , also since you seem to know a lot about this , i have a question , i was reading online and found that if you rub a little bit of Vaseline that would help has a barrier and earlier someone said tee tree oil and etc , but i don't have any of those but I do have Vaseline , would you recommend this ?


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## rjdpj

That was supposed to say a little bit of Vaseline in your nose lol !


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## FrankW

Getting worse by the hour.. 

just threw up all the food for the last 2 days.
Monday is supposed to be a big training event 250 miles away that is important for my career.

We'll see how it goes...


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## ReadyMom

rjdpj said:


> I totally agree , also since you seem to know a lot about this , i have a question , i was reading online and found that if you rub a little bit of Vaseline that would help has a barrier and earlier someone said tee tree oil and etc , but i don't have any of those but I do have Vaseline , would you recommend this ?


Just saw this, as I skim the forums, before going to bed! I have heard of using Vaseline. Another really good option is Neosporin aka triple antibiotic ointment. Folks who frequently fly use it in the ends of their nose and find good results.

Also for those flying & using public transportation: Use the antibacterial wipes! Especially those flying. Wipe down the tray, the armrests, any remotes you touch. When you have landed ... go WASH your HANDS!

ANY opening to your body is a gateway for the virus. So ... touching your nose, eyes, mouth is going to allow the virus to enter. One study showed that flu viruses can live for up to 48 hours on hard, nonporous surfaces such as stainless steel and for up to 12 hours on cloth and tissues. The virus can live on paper money for up to TWO WEEKS! So wash, wash, wash your hands. -k



BlueZ said:


> Getting worse by the hour..
> 
> just threw up all the food for the last 2 days.
> Monday is supposed to be a big training event 250 miles away that is important for my career.
> 
> We'll see how it goes...


BlueZ, I hope you are feeling well in timefor that big training event,but you have to get yourself better. If this is the flu, you need to see a doctor. And don't forget ... if it's the flu ... you are CONTAGIOUS and will be, even after your symptoms are gone (for at least several days).

There is also a very nasty norovirus that is going around that recently came over from Europe and is spreading VERY quickly. See this:

*What are the symptoms of norovirus?*
http://www.voxxi.com/how-do-i-know-if-i-have-norovirus/#ixzz2HqJ9IhMU

Like the flu, nororvirus generally lasts for a few days and often has accompanying symptoms of:

-Vomiting
- Abdominal pain
- Nausea
- Low-grade fever
- Lethargy
- Weight loss
- Diarrhea
- Abdominal cramps

However, unlike the flu, which the Centers of Disease Control (CDC) state is a respiratory illness, norovirus primarily affects the stomach and causes inflammation known as gastroenteritis. Also unlike the flu, norovirus is not considered a serious illness, though it can lead to dehydration or even death in debilitated patients.

*How can you tell if you have the flu or if you have norovirus?*

According to an interview with Dr. Joshua Kosowsky, vice chair and clinical director of Brigham and Women's Hospital's emergency department, there may be some overlap of flu and norovirus this season, and it is very possible for an individual to develop both.

To try and determine which condition may be occurring, Kosowsky explains, symptoms of the flu usually involve:

-Chills
- Body aches
- Sore throat
-Runny nose
-Coughing
-Extreme cases sometimes have nausea and vomiting or other gastrointestinal signs

Norovirus symptoms usually involve the intestines and the stomach and are often more intense than those associated with the flu (Shutterstock photo)

When it comes to norovirus, the symptoms are usually more intense and tend to involve the stomach and intestines only, with an occasional fever.


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## mgcatfish

PFCHAWK said:


> I believe the flu shot is the governments way to infect us all.......0-0


The National Guard gives everyone the flu shot multiple times a year. It always gives you a "short lived flu". I have inquired with medics in depth as to why since they claim it is not actually the flu.

Here is why. The flu shot is the "dead" flu virus. Your body, however, does not know that. So while it technically does not give you the flu... Your body treats it the same way as if you did have the flu. For about half a day. Then your body builds up the immunities to the virus, realizes the virus is dead and goes about its business.

Short answer. You might as well have the flu. You feel the same as if you did.


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## PreparedRifleman73

Unfortunately, I am at quite a disadvantage. My line of work involves working with those who are infected. I've already caught it myself.


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## zachG23

Dont get one its the media and the government trying to scare everyone to get flu shots those shots have so much toxins in them and god knows what else. The illuminati controls media and making you think a certain way do not get the flu shot. Remember that the government is our enemy. Use your heads why would they keep pushing to get flu shots. U really think the government cares about u. They are doing population control. Those flu shots are the problem


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## mma800

Ready Mom-
That was me who posted the link! I really appreciate your great and informative website! I printed up your sick room checklist and have it mostly covered.
Sill need the zipper doors and elderberry to arrive from amazon.
My sick room is right off the kitchen/ pantry area, but able to be separated. I have kept all the jello, ginger ale, chicken broth in the pantry. I also put all the hygiene stuff in the bathroom that is attached to the sick room. I have a bureau in the room with 4 drawers. 2 have extra linens , 1 has all the meds and cough drops, and 1 has extra tissues, puke bucket, baby monitor to hear the sicko, extra Lysol, baby wipes and thermometers.
I put an under the bed box with the extreme isolation stuff like masks, respirator, gloves, plastic sheeting. I covered the bed with a zippered mattress pad cover, doubled the fitted sheets and added a draw sheet.
The night table has cough drops, extra batteries for remotes, charger for video games, pencils and paper, a few card games, books and crosswords.
Having everything ready to go makes me feel a lot better.

BTW- I used to work at Brigham and Women's! In my previous no kids life.

I sure hope all that are sick have a quick recovery! Now I'm off to wash my hands and have a coffee!:flower:


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## rjdpj

Just went to check up on my neighbor Wanda , (wore a face-mask) she has been sick for a week , she looks very bad :/ she says she still doesn't feel better an she still has a temp of 100 , *sigh* anybody got any advice ? We are really close friends so thats why i ask .


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## FrankW

I nearly called my commander at 3 am to find somone to drive me ot the hospital.
I have extreme dehydration and electrolyte imbalance due to losing fluids on boht ends all night.

drinking water would just make me throw it up.
'So I stayed up all night tryoijg to driunk water and not throw it back up.

This reminds me to add ot my preps an elecrolyte solution becxauyse i have none.
Hopefully not eating for days on end will have a welcome weight loss side effect


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## rjdpj

BlueZ said:


> This reminds me ot add ot my preps an elecrolyte solution becxauyse i have none.


Do they make tablets for those ?


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## ReadyMom

rjdpj said:


> Just went to check up on my neighbor Wanda , (wore a face-mask) she has been sick for a week , she looks very bad :/ she says she still doesn't feel better an she still has a temp of 100 , *sigh* anybody got any advice ? We are really close friends so thats why i ask .


Get her to a doctor! -k



BlueZ said:


> I nearly called my commander at 3 am to find somone to drive me ot the hospital.
> I have extreme dehydration and electrolyte imbalance due to losing fluids on boht ends all night.
> 
> drinking water would just make me throw it up.
> 'So I stayed up all night tryoijg to driunk water and not throw it back up.
> 
> This reminds me to add ot my preps an elecrolyte solution becxauyse i have none.
> Hopefully not eating for days on end will have a welcome weight loss side effect


-SIGH- .... Blue ... GO to the DOCTOR!



zachG23 said:


> Dont get one its the media and the government trying to scare everyone to get flu shots those shots have so much toxins in them and god knows what else. The illuminati controls media and making you think a certain way do not get the flu shot. Remember that the government is our enemy. Use your heads why would they keep pushing to get flu shots. U really think the government cares about u. They are doing population control. Those flu shots are the problem


This post needs a big tin-foil hat. Flu Shots are NOt population control. NOT getting a flu shot is population control. People DIE from the flu ... people ARE dying from the flu right now. Kids are dying. Babies. Big strong high school & college guys (alive one day, sick the next, dead the next).

*Flu Shots are a personal choice. I don't like fighting that fight*. If you do decide NOT to get the vaccine ... just make sure you have ALL the flu meds at home & ready to use now (before you get sick). Put those supplies in a box, under your bed, so that it is close by if you are home alone when you wake up feeling miserable. Make sure you take the precautions I mentioned above. Have a 'Flu Buddy' arranged (someone who can help you when you get sick, take care of your children, get you to a doctor, etc.



rjdpj said:


> Do they make tablets for those ?


No because you need the liquid AND the electrolytes. I have a recipe (several similar recipes, actually) over on my EHP site. Just go to the site,and then you can find them here: _Preparing Your Home » Medical Concerns » Diarrhea, Dehydration and Re-hydrating_

Here's one recipe from Dr. Grattan Woodson, who is an advocate of pandemic planning:



> A very good ORS recipe is using juice as the flavor and sugar source added to water and a bit of salt. For instance, 2 cups water, 2 cups juice, and 1/4 tsp salt. This ORS provides plenty of water and sugar but also potassium and sodium. The potassium can substitute for sodium with regards to enhancing water absorption in the presence of sugar. This is my preferred ORS because it tastes so much better to me.
> 
> *In essence, what is important is not the quantity of salt and sugar but the amount of water given.* Yes, to improve the absorption of water from the gut both salt and sugar need to be present but in fact there is a large range of acceptable concentrations of these two that still result in a good clinical recovery. So, don't get locked into a single mantra. There are many variations that also work quite well.


_RM's note: I keep packets of lemon and orange kool-aid in my medical prep supplies to add to the solution, for flavor._


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## Startingout-Blair

zachG23 said:


> Dont get one its the media and the government trying to scare everyone to get flu shots those shots have so much toxins in them and god knows what else. The illuminati controls media and making you think a certain way do not get the flu shot. Remember that the government is our enemy. Use your heads why would they keep pushing to get flu shots. U really think the government cares about u. They are doing population control. Those flu shots are the problem


I have been getting the flu shot for almost 25 years. I have very seldom had any problems. I've also had the pneumonia vaccine as well as I don't know how many bother vaccines out in me from my time in the Army. I know they inoculated me from the Plague and made me eat live Polio vaccine. The Gooberment is not our friend, I agree, but there is no Illuminati. If there is some powerful group controlling everything, they are doing a hell if a bad job. Why being the economies down and the people under subjugation? They already control everything if they are a real group.


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## FrankW

Going to the hospital now.


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## rjdpj

ReadyMom said:


> Get her to a doctor! -k
> 
> .


I have suggested that , but she doesn't want to go because she has no kind of insurance , she is retired . I did however a couple of weeks ago take her to get the vaccine , (she can't drive anymore ) . So maybe that will help


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## rjdpj

BlueZ said:


> Going to the hospital now.


Keep us updated :


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## oldasrocks

We decided to SIP. I don't know if thats a good idea or not but any time my wife doesn't want to go shopping is good for me.


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## ReadyMom

rjdpj said:


> I have suggested that , but she doesn't want to go because she has no kind of insurance , she is retired . I did however a couple of weeks ago take her to get the vaccine , (she can't drive anymore ) . So maybe that will help


Don't hospitals take you even without insurance, in the emergency room? I thought folks went there, when they had no insurance, and that's why they are always full of patients. -k


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## rjdpj

Well it would be mre expensive since she doesn't actually have a life threatening emergency , and since she doesn't have insurance .that's how hospitals do it here ...


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## Rainy13

ReadyMom, I added your site's to my favorites, i can't wait to read all the info...Thank you!


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## BillS

In the case of a pandemic we don't leave our house. We live on our stored food for as long as necessary or until the food runs out. If you avoid contact with other people outside your house you should be OK.

Real pandemics are few and far between. The 1918 flu bug that killed 20 million people in an era before air travel was hundreds of flu bugs ago. They're very rare. I'm already prepping for an economic collapse so I expect to be OK in the case of a pandemic.


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## eddy_dvyvan

Its funny that you see in asian countries when the flu is around everyone wears masks in public, but speaking for myself in australia ive never seen anyone go to those lenghts. Its funny how our sense of pride overcomes our sense of survival. 

Is it the same in the states?

p.s make sure you know when and which cough syrup to give to people.


Edit: And look after yourselves over there


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## rjdpj

eddy_dvyvan said:


> Its funny that you see in asian countries when the flu is around everyone wears masks in public, but speaking for myself in australia ive never seen anyone go to those lenghts. Its funny how our sense of pride overcomes our sense of survival.
> 
> Is it the same in the states?
> 
> p.s make sure you know when and which cough syrup to give to people.
> 
> Edit: And look after yourselves over there


Wow ! That's a awesome point i have never thought about that ! And yes it is the same here , although i went to New York a few years ago in 2009 and i saw a few people wearing N-95 masks .


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## mma800

You are so right!
Personally, I have no problem wearing a mask in public if I am sick or afraid to infect others because someone in my home is sick. I would rather a mask over lipstick!!
But I don't wear one if I/we are healthy. It can't be on 24/7. I prefer to just avoid going out too much, and practice great handwashing/ sanitizers/ lysol/laundry if I must be out in public. I am a pretty good homebody!!

Given a known pandemic- my respirator would be on and we would be AT HOME with no visitors.


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## majmill

what's wrong with a flu shot? i have had a flu shot every year for 40 years and haven't had flu in over 30 years. we got them automatically every year in the military and those first years(before the fixed the vaccines) they weren't too nice. but nowadays it doesn't make survival sense not to get one! a 63% effectiveness sound pretty good to me.


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## dixiemama

Everyone who got the flu shot (before Christmas) ended up with the flu and tamiflu didn't help. Started as sore throat, then full in flu symptoms with stomach probs, then cough. We all had swine flu in '09 too and this compares to it.


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## jsriley5

Was at the VA today for a blood draw. Noticed the usually bare faced draw teck was masked asked if it was about the flu. He round a bout said yeah. Also said he worked a lil bit with the CDC when he was still army. He was shocked the epidemic level of this flu wasn't announced at least a week earlier. So he at least thinks it is somewhat worse than they are saying out loud. He was a long talker and a longer tlakier than I was a bleeder so I didn't get to dig for more.


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## FrankW

They fixed me up pretty god at the hospital. Brought my fever down form 102 to under 100 put a couple bags of IV's into me plus a small bag of different meds and i feel tons better.


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## kejmack

ReadyMom said:


> "The CDC uses indirect modelling methods to estimate the number of deaths associated with influenza. Thus the much publicised figure of 36,000 is not an estimate of yearly flu deaths, as widely reported in both the lay and scientific press, but an estimate - generated by a model"


Okay, ReadyMom, I know you consider yourself an expert and your Science Daily site is the end all of medical knowledge, but if you look at the CDC site it tells you that they get their numbers from doctors and hospital reporting to them.

We go throught this every year with the flu on this site. If you look at old posts from 2011 and 2010, people will be saying the same thing. They know someone who died from the flu and therefore it is the worst flu ever.


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## ReadyMom

kejmack said:


> Okay, ReadyMom, I know you consider yourself an expert and your Science Daily site is the end all of medical knowledge,


First, I never said I was an expert. I have just followed flu for the past 6+ years and know where to go to get the information and I share. Many people don't know the difference between a bad cold, the flu and a stomach virus. And the SD is not my site, it's just a site where I got info.



kejmack said:


> but if you look at the CDC site it tells you that they get their numbers from doctors and hospital reporting to them.


Yes, they do get their numbers from docs & hospitals. They also do NOT track adult flu deaths. Only flu-related deaths of those under age 18 are *required* to be reported. Folks on 'flu-forums' often will track individual state health departments and news sources to get more in-depth reports of deaths related to flu outbreaks.



kejmack said:


> We go throught this every year with the flu on this site. If you look at old posts from 2011 and 2010, people will be saying the same thing. They know someone who died from the flu and therefore it is the worst flu ever.


You are right ... just because you know of someone who dies from flu does NOT make it the worst flu ever. Well ... actually it IS the worst flu ever for that family or friend who knows the person who died.  But, reading reports with statements like:



> Piedmont's physicians are seeing a particularly virulent strain of the virus. Patients are becoming sicker for longer periods of time, up to three weeks in most cases.





> During last year's flu season, 4,400 cases were reported in the state; so far this season, there have been more than 15,000. Hospitalizations are up 169% from the same period last year.


 Source: http://www.wltx.com/news/national/a...s-Increase-Misery-Mounts-as-Flu-Sweeps-Nation



> The city of Boston has declared a pubic health emergency as a result of the flu outbreak.


 (_Note: That does not happen with each annual outbreak_) Source: http://m.nbcnews.com/business/econo...k-threatens-slow-us-economy-further-1B7928002



> 400 kids called in sick on Wednesday


 (_Note: Schools do NOT see 400 kids sick on a single day every year for annual flu outbreaks_) Source: http://www.wkyt.com/wymt/home/headl...porarily-closed-due-to-illness-182296361.html



> Flu running rampant across Arkansas -- cases more severe than previous years


http://www.magnoliareporter.com/new...cle_f39d1378-5c7a-11e2-aedf-001a4bcf887a.html
January 12, 2013



> "This particular strain of the flu is insidious," said Lisa Washburn, an assistant professor of health in the Family & Consumer Science Division with the University of Arkansas Cooperative Extension Service. ... (Snip) and cases are more severe than in previous years."


 Source: http://www.magnoliareporter.com/new...cle_f39d1378-5c7a-11e2-aedf-001a4bcf887a.html

Then there are the reports of hospitals diverting their ambulances to other facilities, hospitals curbing/adjusting visitors, hospital & health care offices lined with patients and some using tent triage centers in outside parking lots. That is not usual 'annual flu' activity.

So, as we monitor the number of deaths, eventually comparing to that toll to previous years ... the sheer number of ill and severity of illness can still make this year significantly worse than previous years. -k


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## *Andi

ReadyMom said:


> Then there are the reports of hospitals diverting their ambulances to other facilities, hospitals curbing/adjusting visitors, hospital & health care offices lined with patients and some using tent triage centers in outside parking lots. That is not usual 'annual flu' activity.
> 
> So, as we monitor the number of deaths, eventually comparing to that toll to previous years ... the sheer number of ill and severity of illness can still make this year significantly worse than previous years. -k


Reports ~ Now we are back to the LSM ... and I think we all know how that works.

There is a rather nasty bug going around in our area (but it is not the flu ~ per testing. )

How will the CDC respond ... Like always, put out a report to make the news then over the next 6 months change the numbers as needed.

Sorry ... Just the way I see it.


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## faithmarie

This guy is excellent ...I think.... All his videos are very good.


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## DJgang

We had an outbreak of whooping cough and low and behold if vaccines weren't being advertised on little signs outside of CVS, Walgreens etc the month before!!!


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## mma800

Well, 2 of my three kids came home sick yesterday. I took them to the pediatrician and flu test was negative. I am happy I was prepared with everything I needed.
Elderberry capsules arrived yesterday and I have added them to my sick room preps.
FYI- I called my pharmacy (target) before we went to the doctor, and I asked the pharmacist if they had any Tamiflu in stock if the girls needed it. They were sold out and didn't expect another shipment until next week. Thank goodness I didn't need to chase around to other pharmacies to get some. I will have to get some into my preps after this flu season is over. Time to get some chicken soup going! Jello is already setting in the fridge and ginger ale is going flat on the counter. My mom used to always give us flat soda when we were sick.
Hope all you sickos are feeling better!


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## Startingout-Blair

BlueZ said:


> They fixed me up pretty god at the hospital. Brought my fever down form 102 to under 100 put a couple bags of IV's into me plus a small bag of different meds and i feel tons better.


I'm glad to hear that BlueZ! I was a bit worried about you. Sometimes our health issues are serious enough to out everything else in hold.


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## Salekdarling

I got the flu Christmas day. Knocked me out good for almost a week. Slept the whole time, and had a temperature above 101 degrees for about three days, along with chills, feeling hot and a bad respiratory infection. Didn't throw up. I practically lived in my shower to be able to breathe right and get the gunk out of my system. Hope everyone stays healthy.


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## FrankW

Startingout-Blair said:


> I'm glad to hear that BlueZ! I was a bit worried about you. Sometimes our health issues are serious enough to out everything else in hold.


Thank you for the kind words.
Just not used to anything like this, must have gotten one bug on top of another.


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## faithmarie

How I stop sickness in my home, for children & adults
by Natural & Frugal: Raising 6 kids on

OK everyone keeps asking me to do this so I did it & I will do my best to explain all I do to stop sickness & what works best.
Also with 6 kids what works great for one wont work at all for another so you might need to try different methods to find what works for you.We already take most of these daily to prevent colds/flus & to build our immune system, if we get exspossed to a bug or feel like we are coming down with something we up what we a;ready do & add other things to that.
Please understand I am not a DR & you should always know when it would be best for you or your children to be seen by a DR
When it comes to taking something natural or giving it to your children or other, always research & decide for yourself if it is right for you
The info here is just what we use & for information only to answer the questions of those asking what I use, Go to the ER or a DR when you know it is needed.I am NOT a doctor. This page is for education only, and is NOT intended to be medical advice. Always talk with your health practitioner before taking any herbs or supplements.
Even though I have 6 children from age 7 to 16 these have worked from the time they were babies on up & we rarely have any real sickness in our home using these, I get asked all the time when was the last time we were sick, well my 14 year old was mildly sick summer 2012 & a fall 2012 I delt with 3 that seemed that they may have had a mild case food poisoning that I treated & stepped right away & thats pretty much it in the last 2 years other than the few whio get sesonal allergies & I treat allergies with the same natural remidies( I got Pneumonia Oct 2012 but I have a damaged lung & I dont even have to be sick to get it, but in the 3 years since I was warned about how easily I could get pneumonia thats the only time I have gotten it.
~~
We do not use comercial toxic hand sanitizers or toxic antibaterial soaps, & we never take the flu shot or pneumonia shot so not doing these things helps keep our immune systems built up & ready to fight
Most of the things I have listed in this note we already do daily for immune support & good health, so I just need to do a little extra on those, we eat lots of raw fruits & veges & well rounded home cooked meals, avoiding refined sugars, sodas & processed meals 99% of the time (also avoiding processed foods & sugars can help keep the flu/cold & other bugs away,Many got the flu or sick around the hollidays & poor diet can be a big part of that)
The first thing I always check if someone even shows signs of getting sick is how much water they have been drinking, pure alkaline/minerals in water is a must to help stay healthy, so even if they have had plenty extra water is given
All refined sugars are cut out. (not that my kids get much refined sugar to begin with)
All dairy is cut out other than Milk kefir if it is needed (its a great probiotic to eat while getting better or with a stomach bug)
From the first complaint rather it is in the middle of the night or during the day I take care of it right away, I carry a small bottle of colloidal silver with me at all times, it can be used as hand sanitizer, or given at the first signs of sickness, as a matter of fact my bag I carry usually has bottles of colloidal silver, a bottle of braggs vinegar, a bottle with lavender, tea tree oil & peppermint oil in distilled water, & a bottle of rubbing alcohol (all trial size glass bottles with a spray top) all can double as hand sanitizers, spray deodorant, air fresheners, nausea relief, Panic attack support, & as a fast means to stop sickness.
My kids & husband know from the instant they say I do not feel good I will be loading them up on the things that normally work for them, & usually within hours or overnight all issue are gone & rarely have spread to others in the home, but even if you are not sick in my home, if one is getting sick everyone else goes into stay well mode & takes a shot of colloidal silver, and adds baking soda to their water on top of our normal daily things we take

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The faster you react the better chance of stopping any issue from progressing, or at least it can greatly shorten sickness length
For Colds & Flu.Stomach bug, loose bowels, food allergies, foodpoisoning, allergies, seasonal allergies, coughing, sneezing, watery eyes, fevers strep on & on I treat it all illness the same
Number 1 thing given is depending on age 1/2 to 1 ounce of 10ppm home generated colloidal silver, they must hold part under their tongue for 45 to 60 sec then swish 30 seconds, then gargle & swallow, I do this 2 to 4 times a day depending on if symptoms continue to get worse, understand you can not take that much CS everyday, but we do it when needed with awesome results & a few of my kids only need 10 drops.
I also put drops of colloidal silver in the nose, eyes & ears & nebulize strait 10 ppm colloidal silver
Info on using colloidal silver or food grade peroxide in a nebulizer to help prevent colds/flus & other lung issues here: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...9766660.126929.482040591823419&type=3&theater
Throughout the day we rotate warm water drinks (I have more info on using these drinks in my photo albums)
Remember when adding things like ACV, Honey, Lemon, Coconut oil etc to always heat the water first & add them to the already heated water
#1 is Bragg brand apple cider vinegar (1 cap full) with raw honey in warm water up to 6 times a day
#2 is I make ginger tea by boiling fresh peeled ginger for 10 min & flavor with raw honey & drink as much as they can handle that day
#3 Fresh lemon juice in warm water with raw honey (you can add the ginger tea to this if you like) also up to 6 times a day
#4 Drink Kombucha tea or add it to warm water, also can add water kefir
#5 Hebal teas with added honey can be used to sooth, help sleep etc
#6 Any warm drink can have raw honey added &/or raw coconut oil added for extra immune support
Another drink that is a great immune bulider & gives you a alkaline body is using room temp pure water & baking soda ~ 1/4 tsp to 1 tbs of baking soda stirred 1 minute in 8 oz of water up to 4 times a day~ more info here http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1117124.131622.482040591823419&type=3&theater
For a sore throat all the above help but sometimes I mix 1/2 cap full of Braggs brand vinegar on a spoon with raw honey & have them swallow & not drink anything for 5 minutes, you can also gargle with food grade peroxide diluted to 3% add several drops to warm water & gargle
I up everyones vitamin C & Vitamin D3
& I make sure they get Magnesium
And fresh Garlic is a must, do not crush it, dice it or mix/blend it until ready to eat for best benefits
Info I copy & pasted on Garlic
A wise doctor once said
To get 15 garlic cloves and eat them when sick. Blend them in an olive tapendade, or juice them (dont juice 15, just one, but if eating whole thats okay).
With all the antibacterial properties in fresh garlic, there is no way a cold or virus could survive in your body.
If you make your body a place that is unfriendly to the virus, it will leave.
Add a clove or two of garlic to vegetable juice to avoid the strong taste! I don't recommend adding it to a citrus based juice. Try adding it to a green or any vegetable based juice
~~
Info links to help you find more ways to stay healthy
Apple Cider Vinegar for your health http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.489022184458593.122946.482040591823419&type=3
Baking soda & your health & other ideas http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.498579143502897.125801.482040591823419&type=3
Natural cold & flu ideas http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.522436871117124.131622.482040591823419&type=3
Colloidal silver for good health http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.503878386306306.127315.482040591823419&type=3
Coconut oil for your health & all things coconut http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.489013434459468.122942.482040591823419&type=3
Tips: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...2993012.127253.482040591823419&type=3&theater
Natural & Frugal ideas for body care http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...al-frugal-ideas-for-body-care/499111080116370
Coconut Oil Guide: home Remedies/Uses http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...t-oil-guide-home-remediesuses/488286444532167
25 uses for Bragg Apple cider vinegar for your health http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...cider-vinegar-for-your-health/496221333738678
Uses for Colloidal Silver http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...ids/uses-for-colloidal-silver/484326731594805
Kombucha info/direction http://www.facebook.com/notes/natural-frugal-raising-6-kids/kombucha-infodirection/482556665105145
Milk Kefir info/directions http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...ids/milk-kefir-infodirections/482554218438723
Water kefir info/direction http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...ids/water-kefir-infodirection/482555868438558
~~~
See I totally forgot to add warm/hot or cold soaking baths to help get over illness or to ward it off
For a fever use cooler water for other ailments, congestion, flu aches etc use warm or hot water
Here are the diffrent types of soakes
add 1/2 cup of sea salt, (or other salt like table salt, epsom salt etc) 1/2 cup baking soda & 1/2 cup peroxide, soak 20 min to 1/2 hour or longer if desired
1/2 cup to 1 cup bentonite clay powder soak at least 20 minutes
1 plus cups Epsom salt soak as long as desired
add herb tea bags to a bathm up to 12 tea bags, like chamomile,green, white, black, peppermint etc soak as long as desired
add 1 cup plus of baking soda & a few tbs coconut oil soak 20 to 30 minutes
add 1 to 2 cups apple cider vinegar soak 20 plus minutes
They say you can also add 1 cup of rubbing alcohol but I found pros & cons to using it & have never tried it
add witch hazel to a bath (also not tried this yet)
add 2 cups of kombucha tea & soak 20 minutes
add 1 cup of lemon or lime juice and just bath as normal
add coconut water or rice water
add vitamin C powder/ascorbic acid powder, 1/2 cup & soak
add garlic oil to bath & soak
·add your favorite essential oil, or combo of essential oils or add them to any of the above baths

I thought this was helpful...
---------------------------


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## DJgang

Hey Blue, glad ya got a bag of fluids, amazing how that can change your whole body's healing process.


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## faithmarie

1. Keep your immune system in tip-top shape. This is your best bet in fighting this bad bug once you get it. That means a balanced diet (the flu season is no time for crash dieting) and regular exercise—but don’t overdo it. Again, this is not time to try to meet your 2013 goal of going from a couch potato to a marathoner in one week. Get plenty of sleep and cut back on the stress (I can hear you laughing hilariously). I even have a post on how to do the latter.

2. Pick a preventer—or a remedy. I have a couple of posts on proven natural boosters to prevent or treat a cold. I also have a post on some common treatments that have proof they don’t work. Although the flu is a different story, they’re both viruses so I think these boosters are worth a try.

3. Having said that, try to determine if you actually have the flu or just a cold. Sometimes, without a flu test, that’s next to impossible, but with a typical cold you feel bad, maybe run a low-grade fever, and have muscle aches. You might have a cough and runny nose, may sneeze a lot. But with the flu, there’s usually no doubt. Your fever is higher and every symptom is worse. You feel like you just went ten rounds with a young Mike Tyson, and it becomes a chore to get out of the bed. Why should you differentiate? Glad you asked.

4. One reason is there are some prescription antiviral medications that can cut back on the severity and length of the flu symptoms (but not a cold). The meds aren’t perfect—they only cut the symptoms from, say, seven days to five. And if you’re going to take them, you need to start within forty-eight hours of the beginning of your symptoms, but they’re worth it to some people—especially if you have a chronic problem like heart disease, diabetes, or lung disease, to name a few.

>> Disaster with no doctor? Get The Survival Doctor’s Guides. Ready when you are. <<

5. Another reason is, for goodness’ sake, stay home, away from others, and get well. You’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors if you go to work and expose everyone to your flu germ. The flu is one gift that’s never appreciated.

6. Feel better. Try to ease your symptoms by drinking fluids (yes, chicken soup is good and is a proven virus fighter) and taking acetaminophen (Tylenol), ibuprofen (Motrin or Aleve), or naproxen (Aleve) as needed for the aching and fever. Take a decongestant if you’re stopped up, an antihistamine if you have a bad runny nose, a cough medicine (dextromethorphan or see my post on honey for cough) if needed. A humidifier might help also. (Don’t take aspirin if you think you have the flu. If you’re 18 years old or younger, it increases your risk of the potentially deadly Reye’s syndrome.)

7. Don’t risk it. You absolutely must go to the doctor if you’re more than a little short of breath, can’t keep fluids down, or start becoming confused. Headaches and a stiff neck are common symptoms of the flu, but if the headaches become excruciating or you have severe pain with moving your neck, go.

If you can’t get to a medical facility then you should at least know what to do for dehydration. (Really, though, with the severe headaches and neck pain, I’d be worried it’s not the flu but another serious problem like meningitis or encephalitis. Those are for future posts.)

8. Don’t risk it, part 2. One last thing to take into consideration is the flu often leads to a secondary infection. This is one of the reasons to take care of yourself with all of the above—to keep from getting one.

One typical scenario is that you start feeling better. Maybe even the fever is gone. Then, wham, you start feeling as bad as or worse than ever. In that case, get yourself to the doctor. You may be getting a secondary bacterial infection that needs antibiotics.

You name the infection and it can happen. For example, you may be getting pneumonia—with or without much of a cough. If you have relapse, see a doctor. If you can’t, you need to at least know what to do for that pneumonia, which is one of the most dangerous reasons for a relapse.

I would invest in elderberries from thebulkherbstore or MountainRose if anyone has a kindle there are so many free books on there about herbs and the like... I think liquids are one of the MOST important things ever.... with honey herbs vinegar in it... drink drink drink... it flushes the body.... :flower:


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## faithmarie

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...71117124.131622.482040591823419&type=1&ref=nf

'Prepper's Essential Guide To Surviving a Flu Pandemic and other Doomsday on amazon... it is free today


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## mamabear2012

So....I set my kids up for their flu shots (after much mental debate). I got myself all geared up and the pediatricians office calls me and says they're out of the vaccine. Ugh! Wondering if I should take this as a sign or just head to the pharmacy and let them deal with my screaming munchkins.


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## faithmarie

Have comments on this article? Post them here:

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/038648_flu_pandemic_vaccines_shots.html#ixzz2I3lvb1tM


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## faithmarie




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## goshengirl

Blue, thanks for the update. Hope you get completely well soon. 

Salek, sorry to hear you were that sick, ugh! Are you all better now?

FaithMarie, that's a lot of good info - thanks for posting! I may be working on some of that ginger tea for my youngest today...


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## FrankW

Thansk for all the nice wishes form different folks.
Am almost fully functional ( with meds) today.

the anti nausea pills alllowed me to keep my fluid down which ehlps staying hydrated.
Still leanred aocuple lessons here.

Will keep Gatorade on hand from now on.


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## mma800

Glad you are feeling a bit better BlueZ :wave:

Bought a couple bottles of Gatorade today


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## emilysometimes

I regularly spray down our doorknobs, light switches, faucets, toilet handles, etc. with a version of "Four Thieves Vinegar." There are many recipes for it, but I put white vinegar and a few drops each of essential oil of clove, rosemary, lemon and lavender in a spray bottle and go to town. If you google around, you'll find a recipe that suits you. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Thieves_Vinegar


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## thenance007

While this flu epidemic is going on, I keep a little spray bottle of ASAP silver solution in my purse--before I go in anywhere there are people and after I leave, I spray a bit in each nostril and sniff it up, as well as spray the back of my throat. And, of course, wash my hands.


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## labotomi

BlueZ said:


> Thansk for all the nice wishes form different folks.
> Am almost fully functional ( with meds) today.
> 
> the anti nausea pills alllowed me to keep my fluid down which ehlps staying hydrated.
> Still leanred aocuple lessons here.
> 
> Will keep Gatorade on hand from now on.


Glad your feeling better. Plan on not being 100% for a couple of weeks. I had it around the 28th of Dec and still haven't got my energy back. Hopefully you'll not take as long.

Gatorade helped me also. It was all I drank for about a week. I also wouldn't have survived if it wasn't for my electric blanket


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## FrankW

I am going out to get some gatorade right now.
Also as an expoeriment i just had a taco sald.
First time I was able to keep food down since saturday.
Since I was forced fasted with my previous bout i lost all my holiday pounds and then some extra too I think 
Am still not near 100% but will be at work tomorrow.


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## mdprepper

Don't forget you can make your own Gatorade at home. There are a lot of recipes on line.

http://www.onegoodthingbyjillee.com/2012/04/make-your-own-homemade-gatorade.html

http://katymcarter.com/2012/02/homemade-all-natural-gatorade/

http://www.food.com/recipe/homemade-gatorade-93652


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## AnonyManx

BlueZ said:


> I nearly called my commander at 3 am to find somone to drive me ot the hospital.
> I have extreme dehydration and electrolyte imbalance due to losing fluids on boht ends all night.


Coconut water is better than regular water in this situation. Acidophilus can help also. We have found this advice very helpful in the past: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...Treatment-for-Stomach-Flu-Makes-it-Worse.aspx


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## faithmarie

http://www.commonsensehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/cough-remedies2.jpg

Home Remedies for Coughs

When cold and flu season hits, it's nice to have an assortment of home remedies for coughs on hand to sooth sore throats. We've tried just about all of these at one point or another, depending on who's coughing and what type of cough they have. I hope you find them useful as well.

Home Remedy for Coughs #1 - Honey and Cinnamon
Pour some honey in a small container ( I used an 8 ounce mason jar) and mix in some cinnamon to taste. Take one spoonful as needed to quiet cough. Both cinnamon and honey are anti-bacterial and anti-viral, and the honey coats and soothes the throat. (Bottom right image in photo.)

Home Remedy for Coughs #2 - Lemon
Lemon helps to loosen and clear phlegm. You can mix it with your honey, make a lemon gargle (1/4 cup water plus 2 tablespoons lemon), or mix up a cup of warm lemonade (1 cup water, 2 tablespoons lemon juice, sweetener to taste).

Home Remedy for Coughs #3 - Elderberry Syrup
I was so relieved when I discovered how to make elderberry syrup, because it was something that my youngest could take that really helped quiet his cough but didn't make him throw up. He's got a sensitive stomach, and when I tried OTC meds when he was younger (before I knew better), he'd hurl them back up again. Learn how to make elderberry syrup. (Top right image in photo.)

Home Remedy for Coughs #4 - Hot Tea
Whether it's herbal or regular, the steam and extra liquid provided by hot tea help loosen congestion, keep you hydrated and soothe irritated tissues. Lean more about herbal teas for congestion.

Home Remedy for Coughs #5 - Slippery Elm
Slippery elm is good for sore throats and sore bellies. It was commonly in colonial America. Because it is hydrophilic and absorbs a lot of water, it gets a slippery, somewhat gelatinous texture when heated with liquid. Slippery elm gruel is recommended for diarrhea and sore throats (it bulks up stool and gently coats the throat and digestive tract). I made up a batch using about 1 cup water and 2 tablespoons powdered slippery elm, and seasoned it with just a sprinkle of salt and a dab of honey. I thought it was okay, but my eldest found the texture too slimy. (Top left image in photo.)

Home Remedy for Coughs #6 - Herbal Cough Syrup
There are many variations of herbal cough syrup, but this season I've been using Rosemary Gladstar's "Cough-be-Gone and Sore Throat Syrup". It's made with an assortment of herbs and sweetened with honey. You can find the full recipe at this Herbal Cold and Cough Care post. (Bottom left image in photo.)

Home Remedy for Coughs #6 - Herbal Cough Lozenges
You can purchase herbal lozenges like Ricola or Halls (the stronger flavored ones tend to work better than the sweeter ones) or make your own. In the video below, Mountain Rose Herbs explains how to make homemade lozenges with slippery elm bark, licorice root and honey. The herbs sooth as well as fight the underlying illness.

Home Remedy for Coughs #7 - Peppermint
Sucking on a peppermint candy or sipping a drop or two of high quality peppermint essential oil in a glass of water may also help calm a cough. Use caution with this one - don't use more than six drops of peppermint oil, and don't use the oil with children.

Home Remedy for Coughs #8 - Steam
Few things are more comforting than a warm, steamy shower for loosening congestion and opening air ways. This is likely to provide only temporary relief, but it sure feels good. Keeping a humidifier running to moisten air will also help a dry cough/itchy throat.

Home Remedy for Coughs #9 - Cold Air
We came across this remedy by accident when our youngest had a croupy cough as a baby. During the course of taking him in to the ER one night when he was really miserable, we found that transporting him in the cold air quieted his cough. The doctor advised us to use this trick again as needed if he was hit with another coughing attack. The cold air helps reduce the swelling and inflammation in the throat. Read more about croupy coughs.

Home Remedy for Coughs #10 - Booze
There's a reason many over the counter medications contain alcohol. Alcohol kills bacteria and acts as a counter-irritant in the throat (thus the burn on the way down). Instead of high priced alcohol cocktail, adults may opt for a simple shot of liquor to calm their cough. Mom used to dose us with peppermint schnapps. Just a sip can often have the desired effort. Whiskey is another popular option, but I think the alcohol/peppermint combination is better.

Home Remedy for Coughs #11 - Milk and Butter
This was a new one on me, but in Home Remedies What Works, they suggest combining 1 cup of warm milk with two tablespoons sweet butter for dry coughs. This will work better for a dry, unproductive cough (not much mucus), because it will coat and relax the throat. (Skim doesn't have enough fat to get the job done.)

Home Remedy for Coughs #12 - Chinese Hot Mustard, Wasabi or Horseradish
If you can brave them, these fiery spices can kill your cough - and possibly your taste buds - as well as clearing out congestion in a hurry. You can use them liberally on food, or take them straight. What I don't recommend is something a college friend of mine did on a dare - inhaling Chinese hot mustard right up your nose. He won the bet and cleared his congestion, but I don't think his sense of smell has been the same since.


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## DJgang

Cure for cough: WHISKEY, honey, lemon and just a little bit of water! :congrat: heated up, very warm...aaawwww.....


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## Rainy13

We use to use Buckley's cough mixture...nasty smelling and tasting, but it worked... haven't been able to get any this year


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## mma800

Rainy13 said:


> We use to use Buckley's cough mixture...nasty smelling and tasting, but it worked... haven't been able to get any this year


I have never heard of Buckley's before


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## faithmarie

Sunday, January 20, 2013

Noroviruses
(Acute Nonbacterial Gastroenteritis, Caliciviruses, Food Infection, Norwalk Virus, Norwalk-like Virus, Small Round Structure Viruses [SMRVs], Stomach Flu, Viral Gastroenteritis)

Definition

Noroviruses refer to a group of viruses that causes inflammation of the stomach and intestines, called gastroenteritis (or, more commonly, the "stomach flu"). In the US, noroviruses are the second leading cause of illness (the common cold is the first). Outbreaks have occurred in settings such as cruise ships, restaurants, nursing homes, hospitals, and other locations where the virus can spread quickly to a large group of people.Causes

The highly contagious noroviruses are spread by fecal-oral contamination of water and food.
Infection can occur as a result of contaminated:
Municipal water supplies, recreational lakes, swimming pools, wells, water stored on cruise ships, among other sources
Raw (or improperly steamed) shellfish, especially clams and oysters
Food and drinks (due to infected food handlers who either do not wash their hands or wash their hands improperly after using the bathroom)
Surfaces (eg, touching a door knob and then placing hands in mouth)
Norovirus can also spread by direct contact with an ill person, such as in a daycare center or nursing home.Risk Factors

A risk factor is something that increases your chance of getting a disease or condition.
The following factors increase your chance of developing noroviruses. If you have any of these risk factors, tell your doctor:
Age: more common in adults and children than the very young
Being exposed to a contaminated water supply (eg, recreational lake)
Consuming contaminated foods or liquids
Touching contaminated surfaces
Taking care of someone who is infected with the virus (eg, in a nursing home or daycare center)
Note: A person is contagious from the start of symptoms to at least three days after recovery (and sometimes up to three weeks).
Even if you have been infected with norovirus in the past, you can become ill again if it is a different strain or if it is over 24 months since your last exposure.
Symptoms

If you experience any of these symptoms do not assume it is due to norovirus. These symptoms may be caused by other, less serious health conditions. If you experience any one of them, see your physician.
Nausea
Vomiting
An infected person may vomit often (sometimes violently and without warning) during one day.
Diarrhea
Abdominal pain
Headache
Low-grade fever
Chills
Muscle aches
Tiredness
Dehydration
This may require medical attention, especially in children, the elderly, and those with compromised immune systems. You can prevent dehydration by drinking a lot of fluids, including water and juice.
Diagnosis

Your doctor will ask about your symptoms and medical history, and perform a physical exam.
Diagnosis can be made based on a stool specimen; typically, though, your doctor can determine this illness without ordering any laboratory tests.
Treatment

Currently, there are no treatments for gastroenteritis caused by noroviruses. Because gastroenteritis is caused by a virus, antibiotics cannot cure it, and there are no antiviral medications or vaccines. Typically, though, the illness is brief. The only complication would be dehydration due to vomiting and diarrhea. In certain groups of people (eg, the young and the elderly), this may require hospitalization to replenish fluids.
Prevention

Noroviruses can survive freezing temperatures, as well as temperatures up to 140°F. The virus can also live in water with up to 10 parts per million of chlorine, which is much higher than what public water supplies have. There are ways, though, to limit exposure.
To help reduce your chance of getting noroviruses take the following steps:
Wash hands thoroughly after using the bathroom (or changing diapers) and before handling food or eating. If you are caring for someone who is infected, make sure the person (especially a child) thoroughly washes his or her hands.
Wash fruits and vegetables; steam oysters and clams.
Do not prepare food if you have symptoms, and wait three days after you have recovered before handling food again.
Throw away contaminated food.
If you are ill or caring for someone who is ill, immediately clean and disinfect contaminated surfaces using bleach cleaner. Remove and wash (using hot water and soap) soiled linens.
If you are sick, do not attend work. Staying home will prevent you from passing the virus to others.
If you work in a healthcare facility, isolate sick individuals to reduce the virus from spreading.

Just heard this is going around .... Debbie Downer signing off...


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## faithmarie

Last night I was not feeling the greatest, not getting sick but just feeling blaaa
So I decided to get in a hot soaking bath of epsom salt, baking soda & peroxide recipe here http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...saching-muscleslegs-full-body/484707611556717
Then I added 7 drops of the Immune aid from my set of Plant Therapy essential oils, & I loved the scent (it has several of my favorites in it) I felt much better after I got out & slept well
Details: Immune-Aid Synergy is a combination of several great oils to help 'protect' you and your family from all those nasty little bacteria and viruses. As many essential oils have varying degrees of antibacterial, antiviral and other germicidal properties, the oils in this blend makes it even more synergistic against these bad fellows. Suggested use Mix in a Body Care Base or carrier before applying to the chest, neck and throat (use in a 2% dilution) or simply diffuse into the air. 100% pure, therapeutic grade essential oil synergy contains: Frankincense, Tea Tree, Rosemary, Lemon, Eucalyptus, and Sweet Orange Essential Oils.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/natur...ntial-oils-review-how-we-use/562397100454434?


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## faithmarie




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## lazydaisy67

I am waiting for my Mountain Rose Herbs order. Got 'Root it away' cough syrup and some Ginger drops for tummy aches. DD seemed to come down with something yesterday. Is running a slight fever and says her throat hurts and has a little bit of a cough. More than that I can see it in her eyes that she's sick.
I am going to make her a warm cup of tea with some lemon, honey and maybe some coconut oil dissolved in it to see if it helps her.


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## Rainy13

mma800, a friend of mine in Canada told me about it and i had one of our local pharmacies here get it for me and of course now all the little local pharmacies are gone... You can look it up on line,but i never found a ordering place from them... Amazon shows that they are out of it, so i put that on my wish list.
If you have ever made up a bucket of pinesol, that is exactly what this stuff looks like and smells like...lol but it does work..


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## mma800

LazyDaisy-
My 11yo DD has the same symptoms. Sick eyes, sore throat, junky cough, slight temp. Hope she's better in the morning! Your DD too


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## faithmarie

Here are a dozen home remedies to help soothe and get rid of sore throats, these are simple to whip up and treat yourself with–nothing too fancy for ingredients and you likely have many of these items in stock at home.
Items noted with * are to be used as a gargle every other hour or so (unless directed otherwise)
*Cayenne Pepper: Mix 1/8th of a tsp of cayenne pepper with 1/2 cup warm water.
*Salt: Add 1 tsp of table salt to a cupful of warm water.
*Apple Cider Vinegar: Mix 2 tsp of Apple Cider Vinegar with a cup of warm water.
Ginger: Make a strong brew with freshly grated ginger (about 3 tsp per cup of boiling water), steep for about 5 minutes then stir in a spoonful of honey and sip.
*Thyme: Brew 1 tablespoon dried thyme in 1 cup boiling water. Strain before using.
Honey & Lemon: Mix two tsp honey and 1 tsp lemon juice with one cup of boiling hot water. Allow to cool a bit then drink.
Licorice Root: Make a brew with licorice roots (one or two pieces per cup) and sip. You can also brew licorice tea bags or chew on a piece of licorice root to help relieve the pain. Licorice root can affect blood pressure if too much is consumed, not recommended for those who are pregnant or have high blood pressure.
Cloves: Slowly chew on a few cloves.
Green Tea: Sipping a cup of this can help, but gargling with it is also recommended since it naturally fights infections. See this page for more info on its health benefits.
*Baking Soda & Salt: Mix 1/2 tsp of each baking soda and salt with a 1/2 cup of warm water.
Chamomile: Best to start sipping this tea as soon as you feel one coming on.
Hydrogen Peroxide: Gargle 3% hydrogen peroxide to fight the infection. If the taste is too much for you, dilute with some water first (about 50/50).
Tips

Run a humidifier in your room at night to help prevent your throat from getting too dry, a Herbal Decongestant Steam can also help.
Sucking on hard candies or lozenges can be soothing.
Throw out your toothbrush and start a fresh one to avoid reinfecting yourself.
If coughing is the problem, see this page for help.
Sore throats are a common symptom of a cold or flu developing but they can also be a sign of bacterial infection that can lead to problems if untreated (strep, tonsillitis, etc.). If it doesn’t seem to be getting better after two or three days, make sure to see a doctor since you may need antibiotics to fight the infection.


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## faithmarie

And it is from the alex jones channel:eyebulge: ... so they do get info out.... so you always check info... for those who like all vaccines Please disregard...


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## faithmarie




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## camo2460

First of all don't panic, then, don't believe what you hear on the news or read on the Internet. IF there is an out break, stay home as much as possible, and if you do go out, BSI (body substance Isolation) simply wear a surgical mask and gloves. When you get back home strip off the gloves and mask, dispose of them outside of you home and when you get inside wash, wash, wash with soap and water, sanitize the items you procurred. Don't send your kids to school, and don't allow any one from the outside into your home. Simple. stay well and stay safe. camo2460


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## faithmarie




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## faithmarie

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10200667527631660


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## Magus

Rabbit fever has made a couple of outbreaks..by the reaction of the FED, it's weaponized or at least weaponized grade.


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## oldasrocks

Rabbit fever always breaks out when there is an overpopulation of rabbits. I remember it from the 50's.

They should concentrate on the major diseases instead. Like the brain sucking virus that seems to be infecting DC.


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## faithmarie

http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-emerging-deadly-virus-demands-swift-sleuth-133352585.html

??????


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## faithmarie




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## LisaK

What I plan on doing if there comes another flu pandemic (like that of the Spanish Flu of 1918) is actually a simple Hydrotherapy treatment that really does work. I have heard numerous accounts of people who successfully cured patients who had that flu (back in 1918) with a simple 'fomentation' treatment, and I have personally seen the treatment work effectively on patients that I've done the treatment on. (Not to mention that when you understand both physiology and pathology it simply makes sense!)

People of yesteryear knew how to use these treatments, but had lost the common knowledge of them even by 1918, except for a few small clinics and individuals. Vaccines, medications, isolation... nothing worked to save the lives of those who lived during that fearful experience.

I have a blog post with a video clip that you can watch on how to do the treatment. I don't know how to share the video clip here, but here's the link to my blog: http://www.sustainablepreparedness....1918-spanish-flu-treatment-that-really-worked


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## lilmissy0740

LisaK said:


> What I plan on doing if there comes another flu pandemic (like that of the Spanish Flu of 1918) is actually a simple Hydrotherapy treatment that really does work. I have heard numerous accounts of people who successfully cured patients who had that flu (back in 1918) with a simple 'fomentation' treatment, and I have personally seen the treatment work effectively on patients that I've done the treatment on. (Not to mention that when you understand both physiology and pathology it simply makes sense!)
> 
> People of yesteryear knew how to use these treatments, but had lost the common knowledge of them even by 1918, except for a few small clinics and individuals. Vaccines, medications, isolation... nothing worked to save the lives of those who lived during that fearful experience.
> 
> I have a blog post with a video clip that you can watch on how to do the treatment. I don't know how to share the video clip here, but here's the link to my blog: http://www.sustainablepreparedness.com/index.php/blog/one-1918-spanish-flu-treatment-that-really-worked


Never heard of this, it was interesting.

Hubby's grandma is 101 yrs old. She lived through the flu pandemic. Her uncle lived with them to help on the farm, her along with her mom, dad and and 7 other family members. The only one to get the flu was the uncle and she said he got it cause he wore garlic around his neck, lol. They ate lots of onion sandwiches.


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## LisaK

lilmissy0740: Amazing that your husband's grandma is still alive!  Wish I could meet her and hear what stories she has! I've heard about onions preventing people from getting the flu, but still haven't found anything substantial to prove or disprove that! I didn't know much about what had happened in 1918 until I watched a documentary by PBS American Experience on the Spanish Influenza in 1918. I had no idea what had happened back then! It was really interesting. You used to be able to watch it online for free, but it seems that they've taken it off now. But the hydrotherapy treatments weren't well known back then either.

I've spoken with two or three individuals who knew people who lived through that time and used that treatment with success. I wish I could have met those individuals myself. Here is a youtube clip of a doctor who knew someone that used the hydrotherapy treatment successfully (a friend shared the youtube clip with me). I've always been fascinated by simple home remedies that have been used in the past.


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## lilmissy0740

LisaK said:


> lilmissy0740: Amazing that your husband's grandma is still alive!  Wish I could meet her and hear what stories she has! I've heard about onions preventing people from getting the flu, but still haven't found anything substantial to prove or disprove that! I didn't know much about what had happened in 1918 until I watched a documentary by PBS American Experience on the Spanish Influenza in 1918. I had no idea what had happened back then! It was really interesting. You used to be able to watch it online for free, but it seems that they've taken it off now. But the hydrotherapy treatments weren't well known back then either.
> 
> She loves visitors. If you have any questions let me know. she loves to talk about the old days. Her mind is really good. She just can't see well and her hearing is off if more than 1 person is talking at the same time. Her baby sister is 92. They lived on a farm most of her childhood. Ate what they grew and raised. If they didn't have eggs to exchange with someone for flour the neighbor would supply them with bread and they would exchange with butter. She only takes a water pill and a potassium pill and can not understand why God has had her here for so long, lol. She still eats onion sandwiches. I will ask her if they ever did the hydrotherapy. She said anytime they felt ill or pain, you go sit quietly and pray and meditate. So their life was simple and I think it helped tremendously living in the country, not dealing with a bunch of different people. But that's my opinion.


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## BillM

*A good onion sandwich*



lilmissy0740 said:


> LisaK said:
> 
> 
> 
> lilmissy0740: Amazing that your husband's grandma is still alive!  Wish I could meet her and hear what stories she has! I've heard about onions preventing people from getting the flu, but still haven't found anything substantial to prove or disprove that! I didn't know much about what had happened in 1918 until I watched a documentary by PBS American Experience on the Spanish Influenza in 1918. I had no idea what had happened back then! It was really interesting. You used to be able to watch it online for free, but it seems that they've taken it off now. But the hydrotherapy treatments weren't well known back then either.
> 
> She loves visitors. If you have any questions let me know. she loves to talk about the old days. Her mind is really good. She just can't see well and her hearing is off if more than 1 person is talking at the same time. Her baby sister is 92. They lived on a farm most of her childhood. Ate what they grew and raised. If they didn't have eggs to exchange with someone for flour the neighbor would supply them with bread and they would exchange with butter. She only takes a water pill and a potassium pill and can not understand why God has had her here for so long, lol. She still eats onion sandwiches. I will ask her if they ever did the hydrotherapy. She said anytime they felt ill or pain, you go sit quietly and pray and meditate. So their life was simple and I think it helped tremendously living in the country, not dealing with a bunch of different people. But that's my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> A good onion sandwich will make those flu bearing people stand a little further away ! :2thumb:
Click to expand...


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## faithmarie




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## swjohnsey

Vaccines are killin' our kids! Think how great life was when we still had polio, smallpox and whooping cough to weed out the weak ones.


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## faithmarie

eavy metals can do significant damage to the body. Historically, they’ve been used as “an instrument of murder” (in the case of arsenic) and instruments of war. But most people who are exposed to heavy metals in today’s times are through their food, water, vaccines, or the air around them. The good news is that there are natural ways to chelate heavy metals from your body.

In high amounts, heavy metal toxicity can cause numerous symptoms like headache, nausea, vomiting, sweating, and even death. In lower amounts toxicity from lead or mercury, for example, can have much subtler effects. In either case, however, ridding the body of these harmful metals is important.

Removal of heavy metals from the body is known as chelation. This word actually comes from the Greek word “claw” and was used because early practitioners saw substances that they believed grabbed a hold of the metals and carried them out of the body through the digestive system. The term stuck.

Fortunately, there are foods with natural chelation properties. In cases of minor exposure, you don’t need to spend a fortune on prescriptions or even supplements in order to restore optimal health. The following are natural heavy metal chelating agents.

Amino Acids. Amino acids are great at removing metals from the body – so good for meat eaters. These proteins are found in eggs and fish, among other things, and can work to increase liver health and balance enzyme production.
Cilantro. Cilantro is just one super-herb that can effectively remove heavy metals (aluminum, mercury, and lead in particular) – in only two weeks. Also, because these metals can damper the immune system, cilantro is also recognized as an immune-booster.
Food-Grade Activated Charcoal - Dr. Al Sears, MD, has his patients use food-grade activated charcoal for general detoxifying; this includes detoxing heavy metals. For heavy metal detoxifying, he recommends a total of 20 grams per day, spaced apart in two to four doses, over a 12 day period. I prefer taking a heaping tablespoon once in the morning, well before breakfast for general detoxification.
Brazil Nuts: Not necessarily a chelation food, Brazil nuts actually work to restore the good minerals, like selenium and zinc, that may be lost in the chelation process.
Onions and garlic. The sulfur in onions and garlic can also work to eliminate heavy metals. Along with these, things like eggs, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, and cabbage also have high sulfur content.
Chlorella. The superfood known as chlorella can serve as a mild chelation-helper. You can find it in supplement form or as a powder to add to various dishes.


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## faithmarie

Gotta get this one...


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## oldasrocks

Can I get a vaccine for redheads, brunettes and blondes?


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## swjohnsey

Vaccinations and innoculation, population control weapons! That's right up there with alien abductions and anal probes. You can get more information on chealation at quackwatch.com.


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## faithmarie




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## drfacefixer

faithmarie said:


>


 That is nothing other than a repeat of what happened in 1976 but to a lesser extent. What is omitted is that GB syndrome is associated with certain bacterial infections and well as the flu. Had theses people gotten the flu with the same antigenic elements, they might have still developed GB. These numbers show that our vaccinations has greatly improved in their safety profile. the data that is hard to extrapolate in how many people avoided the flu and how many pandemics have not gotten a foot hold to start because of herd vaccination. Not everyone needs it, just a large majority. know the risks of the vaccine, but also know the risks of not being vaccinated. It's not a pharmaceutical money maker. There currently are only four companies in the market and park Davis is still recovering from loses. I highly recommend the coming plague by Laurie Garrett if want real stories behind the epidemiologists on the forefront of emerging diseases and how it all ties into public policy. It's some awesome history that's note only terrifying but also somewhat comforting.


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## lazydaisy67

It's not the vaccine against whooping cough or measles or rubella, etc. that I am against AT ALL!! I don't want sick kids or adults. It's other things put into those vaccines that I am against. Some of those "things" they tell us about, some they don't. My children are not lab animals to be experimented on!! 

The "flu" vaccination isn't terribly effectve overall throughout the population so I don't see the need to have my kids get them.


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## drfacefixer

I thought some where that I read you were a nurse? I might be mistaking you for someone else, if so I appoligize. Here is a portion of the flu vaccine inser for AGRIFLU - flu vaccines no longer have the +150 ingredients they reported from the 70's and 80s. It is relatively basic now.

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/BiologicsBloodVaccines/Vaccines/ApprovedProducts/UCM192127.pdf

Read pg 7 top paragraph - ingredients are such: 
1. embryonated hens' eggs inoculated with an influenza virus suspension 
2. kanamycin and neomycin sulphate.(antibiotics)
3. formaldehyde for inactivation.
4. viral surface antigens, hemagglutinin and neuraminidase
5. cetyltrimethylammonium bromide (CTAB), to removes most of the internal proteins. The CTAB is removed from the vaccine preparation by subsequent purification steps.

AGRIFLU is a sterile clear aqueous suspension and is formulated to contain a total of 45 mcg hemagglutinin (HA) per 0.5-mL dose in the recommended ratio of 15 mcg HA of each of the following three influenza virus strains recommended for the 2012/2013 influenza season: A/California/7/2009, NYMC X-181 (H1N1); A/Victoria/361/2011, IVR-165 (H3N2); and B/Hubei-Wujiagang/158/2009, NYMC BX-39 (a B/Wisconsin/1/2010-like virus).

The proteins for the flu are a best guess based on antigenic shift in multiple animal models. It's not going to be perfect but from what we've learned reviewing the yearly shift and patterns - getting close enough can stimulate immune system and greatly reduce the immune shock that was seen in 1917-1919 and 1968 where people were dying within hours from a viral sepsis. You're right you might still get sick and thats a bummer, but on a larger picture, Its changing the human resevoir and multiple transmision factors hopfully leading to a weakened flu season or early burn out. 1918 or the original swine flu started in 1917 and swept the world in three separate waves from 1917-1919. So It's not just about you doing something to avoid getting sick. There is a larger more alltruistic picture which seems to have demonstrated validity over the past 2-3 decades.

If you don't want to get the flu shot, no one is holding you down. If you do think about it, read and know about the brand and lot#. Most places now utilize indivual dosing to avoid addition of Thimerisol which had components of mercury for sterility of multidose vials. Thats the culprit that most alt med people are quick to point out. It haven't been proven, but its removal benefits by aleviating concern of certain metals (used as adjuvents to help immunity uptake).

I know how you feel, I like wise have kids, but I also have one with a severe egg allergy which means she can't have the flu shot. So I have to sit on both sides of the fence and just hope that If the vaccine does happen to work well on a particular virulent year, that she'll get through it okay. It's much better to have the choice and make it a well educated one, than to not have one at all. God Bless


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## cnsper

The next pandemic is going to be what ever you want it to be because of the over use of antibiotics. Hell penicillin is no longer effective for treatment. Now they are talking about super bugs.

Blow your damn nose instead of going to the doctor.


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## dixiemama

Formaldehyde??? Really? Gonna inject your 6 month old with what is used to preserve dead bodies? 

My family does not get the flu shots bc in a SHTF, are we gonna be able to get the vaccine? No. Those with compromised immune systems bc of either health conditions or over vaccination, will die quickly bc their bodies have not built up an immunity to even basic sicknesses.


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## drfacefixer

Dixiemama, that's not how vaccines work. The vaccine is weakened or dead viral particles so your immune system is hyped to recognize the virus or bacteria before its replication gets out of hand initially. So it helps the body recognize the offender as if they have been sick and built up immunity before. 

We are talking formaldehyde on a microgram scale. Your mildew restistant shower curtain give off more than that as does hundreds of other plastics within our homes.


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## dixiemama

All I know is, everyone in my family who got the flu vaccine was sick with it this year, a few hospitalized. I was sick for 2 days with the same flu. And don't try and tell me there is a 'wait period' before it takes affect--- mil took it in October and was sick whole month of January; neighbors daughter got hers in November and just got out of hospital after weeklong stay. 

I do NOT trust vaccines.


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## drfacefixer

No hard feelings. I am not trying to sway your decision or make you fall in love with vaccines. My main goal on any forum is just to lessen the same old anecdotal information from being passed back and forth and put out some hard well documented and researched info that some might find beneficial. Alot of it is at my disposable and being in school till the age of 35 has some benefits. Sorry to here about your families run in with the flu. hope the rest of the year is better!


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## dixiemama

So your a career student too? I have a medical office assistant degree and an administrative office professional as well as working on my paralegal and history degree (varied interests I know). 

It cld just be my family, but they never took vaccines and my grandfathers parents lived to 93 and 96 and he's currently in his mid 70's with no vaccines. We have a few docs in the family and always take their advice with a grain of salt; most side effects of meds are worse than the actual condition.


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## FatTire

For me this boils down to wether or not you trust what is being injected. I do not. But then, I believe the Vietnam war was precipitated by a lie (gulf of tonkin), the 911 commission report is a sham (bldg 7), and that while there were very small amounts of so called wmd's, what was found isn't what was claimed, another set of lies. 

So, since I believe, for the above reasons and many others, that the government and it's agencies lie, I think I'll pass on the flu shot...


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## drfacefixer

It was 15 years of schooling to be a surgeon, hence life begins ~35, Its worth it thought. Enough about me back to vaccines. The great thing about vaccines is that even if you choose not to get it, you benefit from those around you that get it. The reservoir for the virus is much less reduced in a well vaccinated population. Only catch is that a certain level does need to be vaccinated in relation to the frequency of natural outbreaks and this is a number that is extremely difficult to pinpoint. (So for their own benefit, antivaccinators should not try to dissuade others- it works in their favor to let others take the small risk and yet they benefit too)

We're living in a time where we completely see the benefit. Polio, Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Small pox, Variolla are all diseases that are rarely seen in developed countries anymore. And when you do hear about it , it makes national headlines and it's a handful of cases - usually recent immigrants. 

The fear is that if not enough people continued and there was a reemergence it would be overwhelming. This is a true fear for small pox since stopped vaccinating in the late sixties. Read the demon in the freezer for the chilling history of the ongoing debate of whether or not to destroy the last two publicly known samples of small pox.

Initially with the anthrax scare, people started stockpiling cipro. The preferred treatment is anthrax vaccination prior to signs and symptoms of showing disease. According to CBRNE, cipro would likely keep you alive and suffering for about an additional week. You would really need immunotherapy to really improve your chance of pulling through.


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## jeremiyah

rjdpj said:


> I haven't had time to get one yet , but then agian I've ha every body tell me left and right not to get one cause im healthy and it isn't needed , so , and i know some people would put on plastic sheets on their windows would this even be effective ?


whoa!!!

I am blown away by this...flue shots??? On a Survival & Preparedness group??? SERIOUS??? Is this some alternate universe I fell into??? BIZZAAAARRE!!!
One of my biggest priorities has been that we need to be able to take care of ourselves. I am trying to do about 1000 things, so gotta be brief...study alternative health. study vaccinations. study Pasteur vs Beauchamp. Pasteur was wrong. Beauchamp was right.
Boost your immune system, take plenty of anti-oxidants, plenty of good sea salt, and plenty of Iodine; that will knock out 99% of problems. FOR MY FAMILY, AND EVERY SINGLE OTHER FAMILY WE KNOW, WE WILL NOT TAKE THE FREE CORN, OR THE FREE SHOT, OR THE FREE FLUORIDE, ETC...

I will try to get back on this.

Look at lymephoto.com for what a SALT & C PROTOCOL can do...for about any problem...there are a thousand great therapies; a dozen or more for any given Dis-Ease.

jeremiyah


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## jeremiyah

lazydaisy67 said:


> It's not the vaccine against whooping cough or measles or rubella, etc. that I am against AT ALL!! I don't want sick kids or adults. It's other things put into those vaccines that I am against. Some of those "things" they tell us about, some they don't. My children are not lab animals to be experimented on!!
> 
> The "flu" vaccination isn't terribly effectve overall throughout the population so I don't see the need to have my kids get them.


YOU ARE RIGHT ON, lazydaisy

jeremiyah


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## jeremiyah

swjohnsey said:


> Vaccinations and innoculation, population control weapons! That's right up there with alien abductions and anal probes. You can get more information on chealation at quackwatch.com.


If you can't even spell, use spell-check. 
Drop the subject. 
Below is half an hour of C&P. 
A peep, and you get 3 hours.
You are not getting paid enough.

Stephen Bennett, the quackwatch.com jackA$$*** is paid by the medical industry to lie about every subject he covers. He gets grants and funding of millions of dollars.
Whatever he slams; figure it is good. Piece of human excrement.

Read Medical Mussolini about founding of the AMA and the 
connection of Nazi Paperclip scientists, IG Farben (nerve gas, mustard gas). 
Bayer Aspirin, Hoesch, BASF, etc.

What do victims at Dachau and Auschwitz have in common with chemo-therapy victims? COMPARE PICTURES!!!

SAME DRUGS AND SAME DOCTORS!!! Chemo was a derivative of IG Farben's mustard gas.

*
The liberation of mankind from the yoke of the pharmaceutical 'business with disease'
is the largest liberation movement of all time.
This battle is being fought and will be won to the benefit of
this generation and all generations to come. *
*

From "Arbeit macht frei" to "Codex Alimentarius"
The entrance of the Auschwitz Concentration Camp*

*Just fifteen years after they were convicted in the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, Bayer, BASF and Hoechst were again the architects of the next major human rights offences. In 1962, they established the Codex Alimentarius Commission. (Remark made by the Dr. Rath Health Foundation)

This dark period of German history is inextricably bound to one man, Fritz ter Meer:

He was a member of the Managing Board of IG Farben from its inception to its dissolution. As the Wartime Manager, he was responsible for IG Auschwitz.
In the Nuremberg Tribunal, ter Meer stated: "Forced labor did not inflict any remarkable injury, pain, or suffering on the detainees, particularly since the alternative for these workers would have been death."
In 1948, ter Meer was sentenced by the Nuremberg Tribunal to seven years in prison for plundering and slavery.
In 1952, his sentence was commuted, due to the influence of powerful friends.
From 1956-1964, he was reinstated as a member of the Managing Board of Bayer AG.
In 1962, ter Meer was one of the architects of the "Codex Alimentarius - Commission" and one of the main designers of the schemes that would profit from human suffering. (Remark made by the Dr. Rath Health Foundation)

The deceptive title "Codex Alimentarius" is no accident. It was devised by the same companies and indeed the same individuals, who gave the Auschwitz concentration camp inmates the deceptive slogan "Arbeit mach frei" ("Work makes you free"). (Remark made by the Dr. Rath Health Foundation)

As long as the Nazi infection continues to work its influence and threaten the lives of untold millions, no German has the right to proclaim that the Nazi era is finished. *

More below on Nazi / Nuremberg connection to the AMA, Vaccinations, Chemo"therapy" Radiation "therapy" etc

The Biggest Cover-Up in U.S. Medical History
http://www.doctorshealthpress.com/video/hh/index.php?sb=OTBPUB&date=08172012

*This ad is about a healing system which has
"A Track Record That Makes "Modern"
Medicine Look Downright Primitive"
Most attacks on this gentle and effective
form of healing are based on the threat
it poses to conventional medicine...
A Medicine Way Before It's Time...

Intro to the "video" is below. If you want to read the pitch, try to close the window, a note will pop up; "wait..." and if you click "stay on page" the transcript opens up to read. (But it is included in this email, below)
Yes, this is a sales pitch, but it has a lot of great information...as well as the attitude we must have if we are to see the strangling death-grip on the lives of billions of people worldwide, of the pharmaceutical / medical industry broken...

This advertisement is about Homeopathy, and the gigantic comeback it is making to repair the massive destruction which the American Medical ASSociation made early in the 20th Century as it went state by state and outlawed & castigated Homeopathy, Midwifery, Chiropracty, and all other alternative healing modalities.

The return of Homeopathy, and the recent scientific proof of its validity by Jacques Beneviste, along with the huge advances from countless other healing modalities and therapies, such as Earthing, Colloidal Silver, Healing Codes, etc, along with the massive number of AMA MDs "jumping ship" are making gigantic inroads into keeping millions, even billions of dollars in the pocket of the common citizen, and thus removing them from the bank accounts of greedy, selfish, and evil cretins bent on making money from the pain and suffering of millions innocent, poor, and hapless people.

Just a few examples of the MDs "jumping ship" ie promoting real and inexpensive therapies and for truth, are Stephen Sinatra, co-author of Earthing: The Greatest Health Discovery Ever?, Ben Johnson co-author of The Healing Codes, and Dr Marcia Angell and her book,
The Truth About the Drug Companies: How They Deceive Us and What to Do About It.

Worldwide, we are speaking of a transfer of wealth in the amount of trillions of dollars. If you think this is an exaggeration, please look at Dr Rath's website about the huge lawsuit in South Africa. (For more info, see below) The South African Medical ASSociation (SAMA) is suing Dr Rath...and the Government of South Africa!!! for opposing the use of non-proven drugs to treat (read kill) AIDS patients. Dr Rath and the SA Government know that vitamins and Micro-nutrients have, and can cure AIDS, CANCER, HEART DISEASE, ETC and they are not going to back down.

Doc Mike Witort did not back down for ten years when charged with "Practicing Medicine Without a License" same absurd and irrelevant charges as my wife is charged with....and guess what???
HE WON!!! IN CHICAGO!!! THE HOMETOWN OF THE UNGODLY NAZI ORGANIZATION, THE AMA!!!
THIS IS BILLED AS "THE BIGGEST LAWSUIT IN HISTORY." PERIOD.

This is serious. It is literally deadly serious, and it is exactly what I have stated it to be: a war in which the enemy is using the three common & major weapons of warfare as "Healing Modalities" -perhaps the most Oxymoronic combination in the history of mankind.

Bayer, BASF, AGFA, Pfizer, Hoesch are daughter companies derived from IG Farben, the Nazi manufacturer of Nerve and Mustard Gas. They were founded by Nazis, and are run by people who are committing the same crimes and using the same methods, and the same drugs, and the same tortures which their Nazi forebears used, and for which many received slaps on the wrist at Nuremberg:

Plainly put, they purport to use:
Knives /swords (scalpels)
Mustard Gas /Nerve Gas (Chemo-therapy, a direct derivative of Mustard Gas) and
Nuclear Radiation (Radiation) as "THERAPY?!?!"
SERIOUSLY!?!?!
TO TRY TO "HEAL???" people???

EVERY ONE OF THESE OFTEN LEAVES THE IMMUNE SYSTEM,
TERRAIN OF THE BODY, AND LIFE EXPECTANCY OF THE PERSON, 
WORSE IN MANY, IF NOT MOST CASES.

 As an example...Using chemotherapy to kill a few million cancer cells in a tumor, and as a result killing multiplied trillions of cells throughout the body in every major organ, has been compared pretty accurately, to using several pounds of C-4 to kill a few rats in a basement, and not only turning the entire house into splinters, but leaving a twenty foot deep crater.

 Compare pictures of CHEMO/MUSTARD GAS "THERAPY" "PATIENTS" of Hospitals to the pictures you can find online of Nazi torture and experimentation with Mustard Gas and Nerve Gas on VICTIMS of concentration camps: any difference? NONE.

...and in all of the over 100 years of the use of these three DEADLY weapons of warfare and murder, these entities have compiled a success record of perhaps 2%!!!! and they laugh all the way to their offshore banks...
How serious is this situation? There is a call for a 2nd Nuremberg trial to *

*"END THE GENOCIDE OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL DRUG CARTEL" to bring these war criminals to justice for crimes against humanity of murder, torture, and genocide: http://www.nuremberg-tribunal.org/

Genocide: The History of the Pharmaceutical Drug Cartel
The Pharmaceutical Fraud
On Trial: Bringing the Pharmaceutical Drug Cartel to Justice
Potential Defendants
Defendants - the First Nuremberg Tribunal

...And charges have been filed at the world court in Hague:
IN THE NAME OF THE PEOPLE OF THE WORLD
Complaint Against Genocide and Other Crimes Against Humanity Committed in Connection With
The Pharmaceutical 'Business With Disease' And The Recent War Against Iraq
SUMMARY
This complaint brings before the International Court of Justice (ICC) the greatest crimes ever committed in the course of human history. The accused are charged with causing injury to and the death of millions of people through the 'business with disease', war crimes and other crimes against humanity. These crimes fall under the jurisdiction of the Interna-tional Criminal Court.
The accused know that they will be held accountable for these crimes and they have therefore embarked on a global campaign to undermine the authority of the ICC in order to put themselves above international law and continue their crimes to the detriment of all mankind.
Therefore, the current complaint must be considered by the ICC with utmost urgency. Moreover, every natural person and every government is hereby called upon to join this complaint with the goal to once and for all terminate these crimes.

Introduction
Criminal Charges
Historic Precedent For This Complaint
Evidence For The Crimes Committed
The Accused
The Jurisdiction Of The International Criminal Court Over The Accused
Final Appeal

The Biggest Cover-Up in U.S. Medical History*

*
THE PHARMACEUTICAL INDUSTRY BEHIND THE MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS IN NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMPS

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/pdf-files/end_aids/END_AIDS_Chapter08.pdf

The Theory and Practice of Hell By Eugen Kogon
http://www.dr-rath-foundation.org.za/pdf-files/2007/affidavit-mr/TaPoH.html

READ!!! T h e D R U G S T O R Y By Morris A. Bealle
THE BROTHERHOOD: The Pharmaceutical Racket

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/index.html

CHAPTER TWO
The Empire of I.G. Farben

Farben was Hitler and Hitler was Farben. (Senator Homer T. Bone to Senate Committee on Military Affairs, June 4, 1943.)

http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/... of i.g. farben&start=0&page_nums=1)&lang=eng

The History of the "Business With Disease"

Sword and Swastika
by Telford Taylor
As chief of counsel for the prosecution of war criminals at Nuremberg , Brigadier General Telford Taylor had a major part in unraveling the tangled knot of guilt for the launching of the war, and for the concomitant atrocities of the Nazi era.
In his book, Mr. Taylor takes advantage of his profound knowledge of the Third Reich and of the roles of the German officer class, the industry and the Nazis.
Read the book online...
http://www4.dr-rath-foundation.org/Books/paging.php?dir=Sword and Swastika&start=0&page_nums=1)#=eng


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/aumed.html
"The German physicians who ran SS and Wehrmacht medical institutions, along with medical personnel at lower levels, participated actively in carrying out Nazi extermination plans. SS physicians assigned to the concentration camps, including Auschwitz, played a special role. They conducted criminal medical experiments on prisoners and committed other acts that violated medical ethics. Having furthered the extermination program in the concentration camps, they have gone down in history as medical criminals."

MURDER BY INJECTION -- THE STORY OF THE MEDICAL CONSPIRACY AGAINST AMERICA

The liberation of mankind from the yoke of the pharmaceutical 'business with disease'

CANCER AND FUNGUS A Path of Personal Research By Dr Tullio Simoncini

VACCINE LAWSUIT WON German Nazi HISTORY OF BIG PHARMA

The Biggest Cover-Up in U.S. Medical History And The Biggest Lawsuit in US History

South African Lawsuit Exposes Pharmaceutical Colonialism The Pharmaceutical Industry Behind The Medical Experiments

Nazi Doctors & Other Perpetrators of Nazi Crimes (AMA)

Pharmaceutical Terrorism The Backbone of Modern Medicine

Modern-day vaccines have their roots in Nazi medical experiments -INFO WARS

The Disgraced Managers of IG Farben
Fritz ter Meer (1884-1967)

Member of the IG FARBEN executive committee 1926-1945, member of the working committee and the technical committee, director of section II
1943 plenipotentiary for Italy of the Reich Minister for armaments and war production, military economist chief industrialist responsible for Auschwitz .
1948 found guilty of "plundering" and "enslavement" and condemned to seven years detention. Released 1952.
1955 board member of Bayer
1956-1964 chairman of the board of Bayer chairman of the board of Th. Goldschmidt AG

"Even today Bayer continues to honour this convicted mass murderer, Fritz Ter Meer"

jeremiyah

notes:*

*The Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal records provide an excellent basis to clarify the historic facts. They are as follows:

The unethical experiments in the concentration camps of WWII were not conducted with vitamins, but with patented pharmaceutical drugs.
These experiments were conducted on behalf of, commissioned by and paid for by German pharmaceutical multinationals in particular "Bayer" (Leverkusen), "Hoechst" (Frankfurt), "Behringwerke" (Marburg) and other companies of the world's largest chemical / pharmaceutical cartel at that time - the already described "IG Farben" (Annexures 'The Crime And Punishement of I.G. Farben', 'The Theory and Practice of Hell').
The names of the doctors directly or indirectly involved in these unethical and criminal experiments on behalf of these pharmaceutical companies are documented in the Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal records as well:
BAYER:
Fritz Ter Meer - Senior Scientist on the supervisory Board of "Bayer"/"IGFarben;"
Dr Anton Mertens - Head of the entire Pharmaceutical Division I-IV of "IG Farben;"
Dr Karl Koenig - Head of the Pharmaceutical Research Division II, where most patented drugs used in these unethical experiments were developed; 
HOECHST
Dr Julius Weber, Head of the Chemo-Pharmaceutical and Sero-Bacteriological Division of "Hoechst" corporation, also part of "IG Farben;"
Dr Max Bockmuehl - Head of the "Chemotherapeutic" Laboratory of "Hoechst;"
BEHRING WERKE
Albert Demnitz - Head of the Production Unit for pharmaceutical products at this member company of the "IG Farben" cartel. 
These are only the most important individuals within these drug companies responsible for the development and testing of the patented synthetic drugs used in the concentration camp experiments. The actual experiments in the concentration camps were conducted by doctors employed by these pharmaceutical companies while working for the SS and their peers.
"Bayer", "Hoechst" and "Behringwerke" supplied the pharmaceutical drugs to the concentration camps, paid the doctors and the SS for the conduct of these "studies," regularly received the "results" of these criminal experiments and evaluated them in order to define the marketing strategies for these drugs and the overall corporate decision taking (Annexure 'The Theory and Practice of Hell').
One of the "executing doctors" who actually carried out these criminal experiments in the concentration camps was Dr Hellmuth Vetter. Vetter was an employee of "Bayer" / "IG Farben" (Pharmaceutical Division II) and reported to Dr Koenig (see above). As a Bayer employee and in his simultaneous function as an SS-officer Vetter organized a comprehensive series of criminal experiments in different concentration camps by using "IG Farben's" patented drugs. During the entire period of time of his activities in the concentration camps he acted on behalf of and was paid by "Bayer"/"IG Farben" (Annexure 'Bayer Vetter').
In order to test newly developed "chemotherapy" drugs, Vetter and his colleagues - among others Dr Ding-Schuler (concentration camp Buchenwald), and Drs Entress and Wirth (Auschwitz) - infected thousands of concentration camp inmates deliberately with micro-organisms that cause typhoid fever and other infectious diseases. Many of them died immediately in tremendous pain.
The Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal records against "IG Farben" document in great detail these criminal experiments on innocent victims. Many of these "therapeutic experiments" were conducted with the chemotherapeutic agents "Acridine" and "Rutenol." In these "human experiments" innocent concentration camp inmates were deliberately infected with typhoid infected blood. Then some of them received "Acridine", "Rutenol" or other patented chemicals as "chemotherapy" while other KZ inmates served as controls. Many of these victims died during these "experiments." Despite the failure of many of these "chemotherapy" drugs, the experiments were continued, ultimately costing the lives of many thousands of victims. (Annexure 'The Theory and Practice of Hell').
The fees for conducting these inhumane studies were transferred directly from the bank accounts of "Bayer", "Hoechst" and other "IG Farben" companies to the bank accounts of the SS, who operated the concentration camps.

The results of these criminal experiments with concentration camp victims were even published in established medical journals. A case in point was a study published by "SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Dozent Dr Dr Mrugowsky" in the "Medizinische Klinik" Nr. 9, 1940, on 27 February 1942 , a medical journal published in Berlin , Vienna and Prague. In this publication categorized as "Original Work" and entitled "Typical and atypical development of typhus disease" Mrugowsky reports about the human experiments in the concentration camps in the following remarkable manner (Annexure 'Mrugowsky Fleckfieber'):

In the past months, we had the opportunity to see and to examine several hundred patients with typhus in different regions of Central Europe . These were Germans, Poles and Jews, man and women, mostly adults."

The concentration camp "Auschwitz " was located in the middle of "Central Europe" and the primary prisoners of this camp were politically opposing "Germans", conquered "Poles" and "Jews" as part of the Nazi extermination plan.
In 1947 Dr Vetter, his colleague Mrugowsky and many other doctors involved in these crimes were sentenced to death by the US Military Tribunal and were subsequently hanged.
Obviously, the doctors executed for conducting these criminal experiments were not the primary economic beneficiaries of these experiments. These beneficiaries were those, who owned the patents and therefore the commercial rights to chemotherapy drugs tested, including "Acridine" and "Rutenol" (a combination of "Acridine" with arsenic).
Acridine was first patented by Werner Schulemann, Fritz Schoenhofer and August Wingler - all three scientists employed by "Bayer" / "IG Farben." The first patent on this substance in Germany was filed on December 20, 1926 , and in the US on December 16, 1927 . The US patent was issued on May 20, 1930 and carries the US patent number 1,760,781. The same group of scientists from the drug laboratories of "Bayer"/"IG Farben" filed a myriad of subsequent patents for pharmaceutical drugs obtained from modifying the original structure of the Acridine molecule (Annexure 'Patent Acridine').
As part of their corporate strategy of "disguise and control" described in detail in the Nuremberg War Crime Tribunal records, "Bayer" assigned their US patents to the "Winthrop Chemical Company", a New York corporation. Winthrop , in turn, was controlled by another "IG Farben" subsidiary in the US , "General Dyestuffs Inc.".
Thus, the historic records show unequivocally that the economic beneficiaries of this medical genocide in the concentration camps were the world's largest pharmaceutical companies at that time.
It is a remarkable fact that today, more than six decades after these "chemotherapy" drugs were responsible for the death of thousands of concentration camps victims, the very same substances, "Acridine" and its patented derivatives are being prepared for new "markets" today - the victims of viral diseases including HIV (Annexure 'Antiviral Res').
In the same way, another class of "chemo" agents had its origin in the laboratories of Bayer and IG Farben. Already during World War One, mustard gas was being produced by Bayer and used on the battlefields of Europe killing tens of thousands of soldiers and disabling many more. During and after WWII, these agents of chemical warfare were modified by IG Farben to increase the chemical warfare arsenal. After WWII, derivatives of mustard gas were being developed into a new class of "chemotherapeutic agents" with the marketing promise to treat cancer.
Over 4 decades these derivatives of chemical warfare agents called "nitrogen mustards" (e.g. Chlorambucil, Cyclophosphamide, Ifosfamide and others) were strategically developed into a multi-billion Rand global cancer market. These toxic substances have been promoted to millions of cancer patients as therapy - "chemo-therapy" - despite their known toxicity and their inability to cure cancer.
This deceptive marketing strategy with "chemo-therapy" was particularly profitable for the pharmaceutical business because the drug companies earned twice: from selling high-priced "chemotherapy" and from selling even more drugs to cope with the severe side-effects caused by these toxic substances - including pain-killers, anti-inflammatory agents, anti-depressants etc.. After the Second World War, the business with cancer "chemotherapy" became an extremely lucrative market for the pharmaceutical industry in the US , Europe and many other parts of the world. Moreover, the same "marketing scheme" would soon be applied to boost the pharmaceutical markets with other diseases, including AIDS.
In 2004 - half a century later - "Der Spiegel", one of Europe 's leading weekly magazines summarized decades of pharmaceutical "chemotherapy" of cancer in a lead article entitled: "Toxic procedure without benefits." The articles revealed what neither pharmaceutical companies nor pharmaceutically-oriented medical professionals want to publicly admit: "chemotherapy" agents have failed as a cure for cancer and have caused more harm than benefit to millions of patients. (Annexure 'Spiegel Chemo').
Of course, it did not take this article to make this conclusion. The fact that almost all forms of cancer continue to spread in epidemic proportions confirms that conventional cancer "chemotherapy" failed to treat this disease.
These facts show that the genocide organized by the pharmaceutical interests was not only confined to the unethical experiments in the concentration camps of WWII. The promotion of highly toxic "chemotherapy" drugs to millions of cancer patients with the false promise of a "cancer cure" surpassed the death toll in the concentration camps by an order of magnitude.
Thus, the concentration camps of World War II were the large-scale "testing grounds" for new generations of toxic "chemotherapy" drugs. These new drugs were either chemically or conceptually related to these first generation of "chemotherapy," i.e by the same mechanism of drug action in the body - damaging all cells of the body though their toxicity.
Thus pharmaceutical marketing strategies turned the cancer epidemic into a business opportunity that created billions of dollars in wealth for the drug companies - whilst, most importantly, without eliminating the cancer disease as the basis for the continued stream of revenues. After this economic success the pharmaceutical interests went on to apply the same principles to other diseases including AIDS. Again, to mask the inability of these toxic chemical substances to actually cure any viral diseases, they were given the deceptive marketing name "anti-retrovirals." Over the decades the beneficiaries of this marketing strategy for toxic patented drugs have remained the same: the globally operating pharmaceutical investment business. *


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## swjohnsey

My degree is in math not spelling.

Why would you believe a surgeon when you can believe a nurse.


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## Sybil6

I don't trust the vaccines. All of my cousins had them and both the youngest ones (age 3 and age 6) were hospitalized. Now the others are getting sick too. Injected a " dead" virus to prevent illness doesn't sound smart at all...


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## swjohnsey

Salk was a quack. Pasteur, too.


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## drfacefixer

1.First the use of "chemotherapy" in this misleading. The first German "chemotherapy" drug was sulfa. Aniline dyes -specifically the red dyes- were noticed to have antibacterial properties and this led to the discovery of the world's first chemotherapeutic prontosil. Basically this dye was a prodrug -being broken down into sulfa once in the body. It was the first discovered ANTIBIOTIC and called it was called chemotherapy because the leaders of science in the Late 1800's to the end of WWII were German chemists. Just Look at their lists of Noble laureates. For most of the 20th century, Germany had more Nobel Prizes in the sciences (physics, chemistry, physiology or medicine) than any other nation. Anyone who has taken a high school level chemistry or physics class should recognize the names of men that made amazing accomplishments- Bohr, Erlenmeir, Ehrlich, Heisenburg, Einstein, Max plank, Schrödinger and the lessen known but world changing Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch. (both Nobel prize winners)

2. If you learn you're history, there is no need to read bastardized versions of it.

Haber and Bosch were two chemists that changed the world and led BASF and then IG Farben. Their research led to the Haber bosch process of pulling nitrogen out of the air and turning it into ammonia and nitrates. They created the process which still today produces the world's majority of fertilizers, explosives, nitrogen containing base chemicals, as well as propellants used in modern firearms. Without this contribution to society, no modern nation would be able to produce 1/10 the food we do, much less have the ability to export excess. Haber, died an expatriate of his once beloved Germany. He was a Jew and like Schindler packed IG Farben with Jewish workers to protect them from Nazi atrocities. He is not without fault however. In WWI, Haber was key to using a byproduct of IG Farben - Chlorine gas - on the battlefield. He did this in the name of national pride and was rewarded by being given the rank of Captain. - the highest level of military rank a Jew was allowed to hold in officership. Bosch on the other hand, tried to thwart Nazi control at every turn, but did agreed to the will of the State into order to still have some say in the direction of his nitrogen research and protection of the 10,000 laborers needed to run his 3 mile long plant. Since this plant was one of the 2 plants creating Germany's sole supply of explosives, munitions, and gasoline, it was argued to be the most important targets of aliied bombing in WWII. Hence, The State eventually took control of IG Farben and the direction of research. In 1941, the penicillin process was created and was a major force multiplier for the allies. Germany likewise, pushed for a similar way to save their wounded and the result was medical atrocities carried out by Nazis. Obviously, we villainize Germans but you can't condemn an entire population for what their country may do. Many in the science fields protested on the world stage and faced strict rebuking by their nation. IG Farben was directly attacked following the war for political reason.( Farben was Hitler and Hitler was Farben. (Senator Homer T. Bone to Senate Committee on Military Affairs, June 4, 1943.) As part of a forced plea deal for limiting war crimes to Military and heads of state, The rights and patents to the haber bosch process were given to Allied countries and the fertilizer trade (from rich guano sources) that made Peru and Chile rich in the beginning of the late 1800's was dead. At the end of WWI, France occupied the Haber Bosch plant over a period of years and failed to figure out the high pressure chemistry behind the process. Because it was internationally protected as a private business eventually, it was left alone and its patents unmolested. This was not the case in WWII since Farben had more armaments than Berlin itself. This time the secrets were readily turned over. Not in a plea for immunity, but as a sign that the purpose of science should better mankind not destroy it.

3. Homeopathy and the AMA.

Why there are so many early issues between homeopathy and the AMA is based on regulation and evidence based medicine. I agree that the AMA are heavy handed on wanting to the head regulatory agency of all health care. There have been ongoing arguments that they should oversee the ADA aswell and I disagree with this. With that said, the Majority of medical schools teach alt medicine it as part of its curriculum and it has become it's own specialty incorporating chiropractic, acupuncture and many elements of Eastern medicine. To say it "it went state by state and outlawed & castigated Homeopathy, Midwifery, Chiropracty, and all other alternative healing modalities" is a blatant lie.

Training requirements and regulations may have been placed for patient safety, but in both civilian hospitals and military hospitals alike I have been given the choice of midwife delivery vs family practice vs OB. I have received and referred to chiropractic care and have been trained in acupuncture for treatment of myofacial pain disorders. Your cut and paste holds little value here. It is overly generalized to make western medicine into nothing more than a cash hungry monster that discredits all other modalities that threaten to take a slice of the pie. What organized medicine has done is mandated safety implementation for the general public to combat disease transfer. Remember when your dentist didn't wear gloves, when tattoo needles were wiped down? Doesn't seem so smart now in this day and age of multiple blood borne diseases, yet this major change only occurred in the mid 1980s.

3. If "vitamins and Micro-nutrients have, and can cure AIDS, CANCER, HEART DISEASE, ETC" don't you think that the majority of people suffering would have figured this out? Shouldn't vegetarians and vegans be immune to such diseases then? Is it because I buy store bought food rather than grow my own that I'm susceptible to AIDs? Why was it first seen in the Homosexual population and called GRID? Why did the rate of infection correlate to the number of sexual contacts the person had? Is it because those that have multiple sexual partners get hungry from all the sex and in their lack of time(from having so much sex) eat poorly?

4. You posted " After this economic success the pharmaceutical interests went on to apply the same principles to other diseases including AIDS. Again, to mask the inability of these toxic chemical substances to actually cure any viral diseases, they were given the deceptive marketing name "anti-retrovirals." Over the decades the beneficiaries of this marketing strategy for toxic patented drugs have remained the same: the globally operating pharmaceutical investment business."

If this is the case, why is ART (antiretroviral therapy) allowing those infected with aid to live a full life, when AIDs used to kill within months to a year or two of onset? http://gawker.com/5986198/aids-stud...ectancy-gains-in-the-history-of-public-health
If you're speculation is that it's all a conspiracy and then you have to assume that pharmaceutics have:
1.	Made a perfect drug that keeps people healthy as long as they continue taking the medicine.

2.	Are in cahoots or have control of every major research institution and silence or induct every graduate into this all knowing society.

3.	Control all peer reviewed academic journals and a majority of major media

4.	Have government appointments that can perfectly plan and control the on goings of public assets and private companies alike.

5.	Maintain a trillion dollar industry, employ millions all while planning major failures, bankruptcies, mergers, and market growth as a cover.

Two words: highly unlikely.

As for more talk of vaccines: I'm done. I can't make you understand immunology. Either you get it, you want to get it and still have learning to do or you still live in the age of sickness being caused by bad humors and evil spirits. You preach evils of vaccines and medicines because you would have to do without in if SHTF? Do you abhor automobiles and gasoline too? I doubt you have the ability to build an automobile from scratch and refine petroleum. It boggles me that people can poopoo medicine but stock up on fish antibiotics; shun ways of the modern world in an effort to promote preparedness but run to walmart and the dollarstore and stockpile in fear of being without; or argue the worthlessness of primitive weapons compared to modern arms yet practice and prepare for returning to a less civilized time period.

On a personal note, I myself am a fan of homeopathics. Do I prefer herbal tea and vitamin C on a soar throat too that of NyQuil - I sure do. I would treat a sinus infection with saline netti pot over jumping to antibiotics aswell. For chronic pain, I prefer manipulation, massage therapy and trigger point injections to narcotics and neuropathic modulators. Aromatherapy works wonder for mild to moderate nausea but when I'm throwing up every hours on the hour, please give me the Zofran. If I have a life threatening infection and airway compromise, keep the herbals and give me surgical intervention and your most expensive and effective antibiotics please.

Facefixer out.


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## CrackbottomLouis

Vaccinations are not the devil. Boosting your immune system wont cut it for many diseases. If I were traveling to remote regions where awful diseases were present I would protect myself against them. Some people do have negative reactions from vaccines. Many times negative conditions are attributed to vaccines incorrectly. Not always. I have had every vaccine known to man over the past 30 years. As a child and youngster I traveled extensively to third world locations and then I spent time in the military where vaccines are passed out like altoids. I have never had an adverse reaction to a single one at anytime. This is, unfortunately, not the case for everyone just my own experience. I do get the flu vaccine. Mainly because I dont like the flu and the vaccine works for me. Vaccines are not all good or all bad. Like most things in life the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If they worry you do some research and make your choice. No one is forcing you either way unless you are a kid and your folks decide for you which is a parents right. Some diseases are very dangerous and arent around because of vaccines. Look at the great success we have had over small pox. That awful disease is all but wiped out now. Herd immunity is important with some diseases. Research the disease being vaccinated against and do a cost benefit analysis before dismissing the idea of contributing to herd immunity by not getting a vaccination. I believe we will miss a lot of modern medicine when it is no longer there to bash.


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## -prepper-

CrackbottomLouis said:


> . I believe we will miss a lot of modern medicine when it is no longer there to bash.


Very well said . Vaccines aren't the bad thing here . They aren't a 100% effective sometimes because everybody's bodies treat the foreign substance differently . If you get sick after you get the vaccine you probably either had it before the shot or your body just didn't remember what the flu virus was like too fight it off . Cause that's what happens . You get the shot of whatever , your body recognizes it , and may forget it after a while .


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## BillM

*A better world*



-prepper- said:


> Very well said . Vaccines aren't the bad thing here . They aren't a 100% effective sometimes because everybody's bodies treat the foreign substance differently . If you get sick after you get the vaccine you probably either had it before the shot or your body just didn't remember what the flu virus was like too fight it off . Cause that's what happens . You get the shot of whatever , your body recognizes it , and may forget it after a while .


The last sixty-five years have been the most productive disease free time in our history due to modern science and medicines.

Vaccines have virtually eliminated Smallpox, Polio, and a host of other man killers that still plague the third world.

If society collapses, we will see a resurgence of those diseases.

I am not knocking homeopathic remedies or maintaining your good health and immune system but right now you have the best of both worlds.

You younger people will see a resurgence of smallpox and Polio because you haven't been vaccinated for them.

I have and I remember living in fear of contracting those diseases.


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## adml1

....... ... .. ..


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## adml1

I agree 100% with dixiemama. my kids are not lab rats. we do not get the flu or pneumo shots. I can't tell you how many people I treated that took the vaccines..

Read a nursing article that the strain of vaccine given this year was found to be only 10% effective. 

And yes I am a nurse with 15 years experience.

amazingly when the above article came out we had a flu shortage


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## jeremiyah

adml1 said:


> I agree 100% with dixiemama. my kids are not lab rats. we do not get the flu or pneumo shots. I can't tell you how many people I treated that took the vaccines..
> 
> Read a nursing article that the strain of vaccine given this year was found to be only 10% effective.
> 
> And yes I am a nurse with 15 years experience.
> 
> amazingly when the above article came out we had a flu shortage


I liked the wrong post; this one.
If we personally mad =e a list of children who are dead, or autistic b/c of vaccines, etc...whew..lot of bad memories...angry memories.

FOR PARENTS YOU MAY KNOW WITH VACCINE DAMAGED CHILDREN

http://blog.imva.info/world-affairs/string-bastards
String the Bastards Up
Posted by Mark Sircus - Director on 12 November 2011 | Filed under World Affairs

In general I am against the death penalty as I am against killing of any kind. Though the Bible sanctions death and killing, it is clearly against murder and the taking of innocent life. We could argue all day about what some people clearly seem to deserve and we could argue about the legitimacy of many things from the Old Testament or anything else written that the elites of the world have had their dirty fingers in.

For all those who are for the death penalty, my message will be clear. I am calling for the conviction and the worst possible punishment under the law for certain people in government who are in the medical field. There seems to be no limit to what our present society will accept. We are letting the bankers and the shysters on Wall Street destroy western civilization, allowing them the fattest paychecks on earth as a reward. And we are letting doctors in white coats inject poisonous heavy metals into babies and paying them well for it.

They say there is a sucker born every minute but I think things have gotten out of hand. Before I go into detail about what has been clear to many of us for years I want to bring the image of the case of a monster who commits mass murder and torments children and their parents. In this case we have a group of them who deserve to be lynched and they work for the federal government at the Centers of Disease Control (CDC).

Most people would have no contention with lining up mass tormentors of children against a wall with the punishment of life imprisonment in solitary confinement. It certainly looks like we have solid evidence that there are people who have conspired to mislead doctors so they continue to inject highly dangerous chemicals into children.

"I can assure you that death from vaccination is neither
quick nor painless. I helplessly watched my daughter suffer
an excruciatingly slow death as she screamed and arched
her back in pain, while the vaccine did as it was intended
to do and assaulted her immature immune system. The
poisons used as preservatives seeped through her tiny body,
overwhelming her vital organs one by one until they collapsed.
It is an image that will haunt me forever and I hope no other parent
ever has to witness it. A death sentence considered too inhumane
for this county's most violent criminals was handed down to my
beautiful, innocent, infant daughter, death by lethal injection."
Christine Colebeck [1]
whose daughter died 24 hours
after receiving DPT OPV vaccinations

On October 25, 2011 the Coalition for Mercury-free Drugs (CoMeD) exposed communications between Centers for Disease Control (CDC) personnel and vaccine researchers revealing: U.S. officials apparently colluded in covering-up the decline in Denmark's autism rates following the removal of mercury from vaccines.

Documents obtained via the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) show that CDC officials were aware of Danish data indicating a connection between removing thimerosal (49.55% mercury) and a decline in autism rates. Despite this knowledge, these officials allowed a 2003 article to be published in Pediatrics that excluded this information, misrepresented the decline as an increase, and led to the mistaken conclusion that thimerosal in vaccines does not cause autism.

image

Kids who received 100 micrograms of thimerosal
were over ten times more likely to have autism than
the kids who received no mercury-containing vaccines.
Dr. Mark Geier

So you can understand why I think these people should be lined up against a wall. Actually there is no punishment that could possibly compensate for the suffering of autism and the tragedy of vaccine deaths. There is a sizable community of scientists and concerned parents who have tried to sway the government away from its use of a neurological poison like thimerosal but it has not listened or cared.

In Denmark, thimerosal, a controversial mercury compound used as a preservative in certain vaccines, was removed from all Danish vaccines in 1992. The well-publicized Danish study published in Pediatrics (2003) claimed that autism rates actually increased after thimerosal was phased out. This study subsequently became a cornerstone for the notion that mercury does not cause autism. However, one of the FOIA documents obtained from CDC clearly indicates that this study omitted large amounts of data showing autism rates actually dropping after mercury was removed from Danish vaccines. .....read more at link

It would be nice if you all would read the books, links I posted before responding with Pavlovian slobber.

Comes down to this:
free country (ehhh)
do what you want...
believe what you want...
pay yer $ & take yer (Russian Roulette) chances...
We will see who lives, & who dies from Pandemic.
of 125 years of life, my kids have never been to docs & are in perfect health

To be continued)

jeremiyah


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## swjohnsey

Hasn't Dr. Mark Geier been shown to be a charlatan?


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## jeremiyah

It would be nice if you all would read the books, links I posted before responding with Pavlovian slobber.

Comes down to this:
free country (ehhh)
do what you want...
believe what you want...
pay yer $ & take yer (Russian Roulette) chances...
We will see who lives, & who dies from Pandemic.


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## drfacefixer

jeremiyah said:


> It would be nice if you all would read the books, links I posted before responding with Pavlovian slobber.
> 
> That's not nice. I did read your links and pointed out areas That contradict known facts. I agree with about 60% of the PDF article. The nazis were scum and yes doctors did horrible things. And people were being injected as if they were lab rats. But the chapter insinuates that top scientists escaped war crimes and were the most heinous. Most of these top scientists from IG farben were Jews that weren't immediately extinguished because Hitler relied on then to continue their research into synthetic gasoline, chemical weapons, antibiotics, and munitions. They were given the choice to either continue for the state or die. Remember, we are talking about nazi atrocities.... It wasn't as easy as saying no and being shot. Families, friend, workers would all be slaughtered in most horrible ways. A few of the timelines of the chemotherapeutics are off too.
> 
> I so wish most of what you posted we're true. Wouldn't it be great if vitamins cured Aids, or that we had a cure for cancer?. Or that autism were caused by mercury products. If that we're true the we could see millions or our loved ones saved without going through such suffering. Autism would only be a disease affecting kids born in a few decades. Pharmaceutical research could move on to the rarer disease research which are passes over currently. I wish. I wish. Oh how I wish. I would gladly give up my job if it were so.


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## Woody

H7N9 in china


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## NaeKid

http://www.calgaryherald.com/health...dic+numbers+still+mounting/8210949/story.html

*New human cases of H7N9 flu mounting
Testing expands in China after seven deaths*



> The World Health Organization says China is broadening its search for human cases of the new H7N9 flu.
> 
> A spokesperson for the Geneva-based global health agency says China is starting to test for the new strain across the country.
> 
> To date cases have been found only in four provinces in eastern China, near Shanghai.
> 
> But Gregory Hartl says Chinese authorities are starting to test for the virus through the country's surveillance network for influenza-like illnesses.
> 
> That means people sick with flu-like illnesses who seek care at sites in the network across China could be tested for H7N9.
> 
> To date China have confirmed 24 infections, with seven deaths.
> 
> It's not clear whether the clustering of cases in the four provinces means that those are the only places where infections are occurring, or whether broadening testing will turn up cases in more far-flung parts of the vast country.
> 
> Hartl said the work to find the animal reservoirs of the virus is also continuing. China's Agriculture Ministry and the U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization are collaborating, he said, and have collected more than 11,000 samples from various animal types to look for where the virus is hiding in nature.
> 
> So far H7N9 has been found in pigeons, quails and chickens.
> 
> Finding the virus in animals has been challenging because it currently doesn't sicken or kill poultry.
> 
> H7 flu viruses, like the better known H5 viruses, can come in two forms. They can be highly pathogenic, killing poultry, or can come in a low pathogenicity form. The new virus is the latter, meaning it can spread in a virtually invisible manner among poultry flocks.
> 
> However, low path H7 and H5 viruses will typically evolve to become high path viruses, if they circulate among poultry for long enough. (The designations of low path or high path relate to how the viruses act in poultry, and not how deadly - or not - these viruses are for people who become infected with them.)
> 
> Hartl says human infections continue to accumulate at a rate of two or three a day, but the WHO believes the cases are still sporadic, with "almost no evidence of human-to-human transmission of any type."
> 
> He explained he used the word "almost" because among the more than 600 contacts of cases that China is investigating, a few have shown signs of illness and need to be followed up.
> 
> At this point there may have been rare occasions of limited human-to-human spread, of the type that is occasionally seen with H5N1 bird flu, he acknowledged. Small clusters of H5N1 cases have occurred, but only among people who have had close contact with someone ill with the virus.
> 
> With H7N9, "there is absolutely no evidence of any sustained human-to-human transmission," Hartl says.
> 
> Experts trying to determine whether a flu virus is on the verge of breaking out to cause a pandemic look for easy and sustained spread from person to person, the type of transmission one sees with seasonal flu viruses.


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## ReadyMom

From REPORTED Cases:
+4 More Cases = 28 CONFIRMED Cases
+1 More Death =8 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 31.4%) (+ Rise in fatality/death rate)
==============================================================

4 new H7N9 cases in E.China
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/773738.shtml#.UWQaFVfDnXM

Chinese authorities reported four new H7N9 avian influenza infections in east China on Tuesday, bringing the total to 28 cases nationwide.

A 62-year-old man in Shanghai ...
The 77-year-old retiree ...
a 51-year-old woman ....
a 79-year-old man ... _CONTINUED at LINK, above _

========================
China reports another bird flu death, total now 8 
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...r-bird-flu-death-total-now-8/article10931853/

The 83-year-old victim, from the eastern province of Jiangsu ... --- _CONTINUED at LINK, above_ ---


----------



## swjohnsey

That's one case per 45,000,000 folks.


----------



## jeremiyah

BlueZ said:


> I nearly called my commander at 3 am to find somone to drive me ot the hospital.
> I have extreme dehydration and electrolyte imbalance due to losing fluids on boht ends all night.
> 
> drinking water would just make me throw it up.
> 'So I stayed up all night tryoijg to driunk water and not throw it back up.
> 
> This reminds me to add ot my preps an elecrolyte solution because i have none.
> Hopefully not eating for days on end will have a welcome weight loss side effect


Make your own;
It is sugar and salt.
They give combination spoons (like wrenches) to 3rd worlders; look it up & memorize it.
I gotta say; I would take the salt drink, then mix a sugar drink. OTW I would surely toss it Right back up.-NASTY!!!

http://rehydrate.org/solutions/homemade.htm






*Oral Rehydration Solutions*

To prevent too much liquid being lost from the child's body, an effective oral rehydration solution can be made using ingredients found in almost every household. One of these drinks should be given to the child every time a watery stool is passed.

Ideally these drinks (preferably those that have been boiled) should contain:

starches and/or sugars as a source of glucose and energy,
some sodium and
preferably some potassium.

The following traditional remedies make highly effective oral rehydration solutions and are suitable drinks to prevent a child from losing too much liquid during diarrhoea:

Breastmilk
Gruels (diluted mixtures of cooked cereals and water)
Carrot Soup
Rice water - Congee

A very suitable and effective simple solution for rehydrating a child can also be made by using salt and sugar, if these ingredients are available.

If possible, add 1/2 cup orange juice or some mashed banana to improve the taste and provide some potassium.

Molasses and other forms of raw sugar can be used instead of white sugar, and these contain more potassium than white sugar.

If none of these drinks is available, other alternatives are:

Fresh fruit juice
Weak tea
Green coconut water

If nothing else is available, give

water from the cleanest possible source
(if possible brought to the boil and then cooled).

Download Instruction Guides in English and Creole

Thanks to Charles R. Staubs, D.O. and Jean Michelet

ORS - An Efficient, Inexpensive, Clean Delivery System Download pdf
ORS - Treat your child's diarrhea at home Download pdf

The "Simple Solution" - Home made Oral Rehydration Salts (ORS) Recipe

Preparing 1 (one) Litre solution using Salt, Sugar and Water at Home

Mix an oral rehydration solution using the following recipe.

Ingredients:

Six (6) level teaspoons of Sugar

Half (1/2) level teaspoon of Salt

One Litre of clean drinking or boiled water and then cooled - 5 cupfuls (each cup about 200 ml.)

Preparation Method:

Stir the mixture till the salt and sugar dissolve.

How do I prepare an ORS solution at home?


----------



## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to "bgw in MT", over at FluWiki:

Top Chinese lab reveals H7N9 source
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-04/10/c_132299005.htm

English.news.cn 2013-04-10 20:20:27

BEIJING, April 10 (Xinhua) -- *A top Chinese biology lab has ascribed the H7N9 avian influenza to genetic reassortment of wild birds from east Asia and chickens from east China.*
*The researchers found that no genes in H7N9 were traceable to pigs,* thus excluding pigs as intermediate hosts for the deadly new strain of bird flu, the Chinese Academy of Sciences' Key Laboratory of Pathogenic Microbiology and Immunology said on Wednesday.

According to the researchers, the genetic reassortment is likely to have occurred in east China's Yangtze River Delta areas covering Shanghai, Zhejiang and Jiangsu.

*They found that a virus carried by wild birds from the Republic of Korea and other east Asian regions mingled with the avian influenza virus carried by ducks and chickens in the Yangtze River Delta during migration.*

The lab's research shows the H7 and N9 gene segments in H7N9 are similar to those in avian influenza samples collected from wild birds from east Asia, while the other six genes are traceable to chickens in China's Shanghai, Zhejiang and Jiangsu.

-SNIP-

As to why the H7N9 is less harmful to the animals than to humans, researchers said it's because of viral mutation, adding that they had monitored the mutation of the N9 genes. _--- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---_


----------



## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to "Pixie" over at Pandemic Flu Information:

*! *RECOMMENDED READING!

China bird flu may be two mutations from a pandemic 
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ndemic.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|health

*China bird flu may be two mutations from a pandemic*

17:21 10 April 2013 by Debora MacKenzie
http://www.newscientist.com/article...ndemic.html?cmpid=RSS|NSNS|2012-GLOBAL|health

In China, nine people have died and more than 20 are seriously ill in the latest outbreak of bird flu, H7N9. And there are fears that the death toll could rise much higher because *the virus already has three of the five mutations that we know could allow another bird flu, H5N1, to spread between mammals.*

*No one knows for sure if the five mutations discovered last year by Ron Fouchier and colleagues at Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, will do the same thing in H7N9. But we do know that some of the mutations helped viruses from three other flu families go pandemic.* For the moment, Chinese authorities tracing contacts of known cases say there is no evidence yet that the infection has spread between humans.

*Most recent pandemic viruses have been hybrids of bird and mammalian flu, and therefore relatively mild because mammalian flu tends to be less severe in people than bird flu. Pure bird flu viruses, like H5N1 and H7N9, are potentially more dangerous. The most lethal pandemic we know of, which spread across the world in 1918, was a pure bird flu that acquired mutations that allowed it to spread in humans. Virologists fear H7N9 could be doing that.*

Severe or mild?

*H7N9 might be unusually severe: it carries a mutation thought to promote deep lung infection, which is also in H5N1, the 1918 flu, and severe cases of the 2009 pandemic. But two known cases of H7N9 only show mild symptoms,* so the Chinese authorities are trying to establish how often it makes people seriously ill, in order to estimate the number of unreported mild cases, and therefore the total number of human cases there have already been.

As for H5N1, despite spreading widely in birds in recent years, it has not evolved the ability to spread readily between mammals. Fouchier's work - which came under fire because of fears that it would allow bioterrorists to engineer an H5N1 pandemic - shows that, in principle, it can spread between ferrets, and with no obvious loss of virulence.

*To get transmissible H5N1, Fouchier first had to prime the virus with three mutations known to adapt bird flu to mammals, then allow the virus to evolve the other requisite mutations while infecting the ferrets: as few as two more appeared to be needed.* *Two of the three deliberately added mutations allow the HA surface protein from bird flu in the H5, H2 and H3 families to bind to cells in mammals' noses.*

*This is what allowed flu viruses carrying HA proteins from H2 and H3 bird flu to cause pandemics in 1957 and 1968. The pandemic virus that broke out in 1918 - from the H1 family - had similar mutations with the same effect.

Such binding mutations have never been seen in wild H5N1 - but H7N9 already has one of the two. If H7N9 can bind to mammalian cells, it could adapt even further to mammals, just as Fouchier's primed H5N1 did in his ferret experiments.* We do not yet know for certain that the mutation has the same effect in H7 as in the other flu families, but researchers are gearing up to do the experiments.

Part way there

"If what we know about these mutations in other flu subtypes is also the case for this virus, then it's already part way there," says Derek Smith at the University of Cambridge. "That's why everybody is concerned about this."

*The H7N9 virus has another mutation that Fouchier deliberately gave H5N1 in the ferret experiment - a change in a gene coding for a polymerase protein. The polymerase enzyme, which replicates the virus, is extra-powerful in bird flu, part of what makes these viruses so virulent in mammals - and this mutation allows it to work at mammalian temperatures. It has been present in all pandemic viruses.

H7N9 also has another of Fouchier's mutations, one that arose as the virus infected ferrets. It removes a sugar group from HA.

That leaves only two more mutations, both in HA, before this H7N9 has all of Fouchier's five.** The virus's passage through humans parallels the ferret experiment - in which only four sequential infections of ferrets made H5N1 fully transmissible.*

*"All pandemic viruses have acquired this [mammalian cell] binding and polymerase activity," says Fouchier. "The H7N9 has these characteristics. So the question is, what else does it need - if anything?"*


----------



## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to: "bgw in MT"over at FluWiki:

H7N9 virus more virulent than H5N1, ministry says
http://tuoitrenews.vn/society/8642/h7n9-virus-more-virulent-than-h5n1-ministry-says

TUOITRENEWS
UPDATED : 04/10/2013 11:25 GMT + 7

Amidst preparations being made to cope with the new bird flu virus strain H7N9 that has killed seven people in China, the Vietnamese Health Ministry has warned that *the new strain is more dangerous than the H5N1 strain.*

...
Kinh said, adding that the information collected from Chinese hospitals shows that *the new strain is more dangerous than the previous one, H5N1.*

The recent outbreaks of the H7N9 strain in China have proved that* avian flu strains are constantly mutating and becoming more deadly. Compared to H5N1, the H7N9 causes pneumonia to develop more rapidly and induces a higher fatality among patients, up to 70-80 percent*, Kinh warned.

Similar to H5N1, *H7N9 first attacks one lung and then the other, thereby causing breathing problems. It seems that the heart and kidneys are less vulnerable to the new strain, but patients have signs of more muscle loss, Kinh said.* --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---


----------



## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to: "bgw in MT"over at FluWiki:

China claims first recovery from bird flu
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/04/2013410151542177898.html?

Four-year-old boy from Shanghai discharged from hospital, according to state media, amid reports of five new H7N9 cases.
Last Modified: 10 Apr 2013 17:02

*A four-year-old boy has recovered from a new strain of bird flu* that has killed nine people in China, according to state media.

Xinhua news agency reported on Wednesday that the child from Shanghai was among 33 people confirmed to have been infected with the H7N9 virus, and that *he was the first to completely recover and be discharged from a hospital.*

-SNIP-

However, five new cases of H7N9 infection were reported on Wednesday: two in Shanghai, two in bordering Jiangsu province, and one in Zhejiang province, according to the websites of the provincial and city health authorities. --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---


----------



## ReadyMom

*From REPORTED Cases:*
+5 Cases = 38 CONFIRMED Cases
+1 Death =10 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 26.3%) (- Decrease in fatality/death rate)








Hat Tip to "Ruby Murray " over at FluWiki:

Two new H7N9 bird flu cases in Jiangsu Province
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90882/8204061.html

*A thirty-one-year-old man surnamed Yin, a restaurant chef* in the city of Yangzhou, suffered flu symptoms on March 31 and was diagnosed with H7N9 avian influenza on Thursday at noon, according to a statement issued by the health department of the province.

Yin, who is receiving treatment in the provincial capital of Nanjing, is in a critical condition, said the statement.

*Another man surnamed Qian, 56, and a teacher in the city of Suzhou*, was suffering flu symptoms on April 3. He also tested positive for the H7N9 bird flu virus on Thursday at noon, it said.
_ --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---_

========================








Hat Tip to "Pixie " over at Plan For Pandemic:

10 deaths confirmed as infected with H7N9 avian flu rose to 38 people
http://news.xinhuanet.com/2013-04/11/c_115357354.htm

April 11, 2013 18:53:18
Source: 中广

According to the Shanghai issued, as of 17:00 today, the the Shanghai newly diagnosed cases of human infection of H7N9 avian influenza,* one of whom died.* According to Jiangsu Province, on the 11th afternoon briefing, Jiangsu Province, the new confirmed cases of human infection with H7N9 avian influenza.* Confirmed as infected with H7N9 avian flu rose to 38 people, 10 people were killed.*

Shanghai issued, as of 17:00 today, the the Shanghai newly diagnosed cases of human infection of H7N9 avian influenza. 

*Jeong, 74-year-old retiree; *
*Kang, female, 83 years old, retired personnel; *
*Tangmou, male, 68 years old, retired back recruits. *

*Which, Jeong died by the rescue efforts.*


----------



## ReadyMom

*From REPORTED Cases:*
+5 Cases = 43 CONFIRMED Cases
+1 Death =11 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 25.6%) (- Decrease in fatality/death rate)








Hat Tip to "[email protected] " over at FluWiki:

(2 New cases & 1 new death) City newly diagnosed two cases of human infection with the H7N9 avian influenza
(Translated)
http://wsj.sh.gov.cn/website/b/104001.shtml

City Health and Family Planning Commission the 19:30 briefing today (April 12), the city newly diagnosed cases of human infection of H7N9 avian influenza. Another patient was confirmed on April 6 patients who were to treat the invalid died on the evening of April 11. Up to now, a total of 20 cases of human infection with the H7N9 avian influenza confirmed cases, of which 7 died, 12 cases are being treated in isolation, and patients have been discharged.

*2 new cases as follows:*


Shen, male, 53 years old, the people of Shanghai, freelance.
male, 86 years old, the people of Shanghai, retirees.

In addition, human infection with the* H7N9 avian flu patients Zhou was confirmed on April 6, after rescue invalid death last night* (April 11)
======
MORE
======







Hat Tip to "Pixie " over at Pandemic Flu Information:

Zhejiang new three cases of human infection with the H7N9 avian flu cases
http://www.chinanews.com/gn/2013/04-12/4727094.shtml

2013 04 12, 2010 21:19 Source: China News Network

BEIJING, April 12 - According to the news website of the Zhejiang Provincial Health Department, as of April 12, 2011, *Zhejiang add three cases of human infection with the H7N9 avian influenza.*


Patients Lee, male, 66 years old, retired, Hangzhou. Onset on April 8th, 9th admission to a hospital. 12th, Zhejiang CDC report patient specimens positive for H7N9 avian influenza virus nucleic acid.

Patients Hemou, male, 74 years old, retired, Hangzhou. Onset on April 6, 11, admitted in a hospital in Hangzhou. 12th, Zhejiang CDC report patient specimens positive for H7N9 avian influenza virus nucleic acid.

*Patients Wu, female, 54 years old, farmers*, Huzhou. Incidence on April 6, the 12th admitted to a hospital in Huzhou. 12th, Zhejiang CDC report patient specimens positive for H7N9 avian influenza virus nucleic acid.


----------



## ReadyMom

Sorry .. I was away a few days. Here's a catch up of what's been going on with this virus:

* Sat Apr 13, 2013 1: * 
From REPORTED Cases:[/b]
+1 Cases = 44 CONFIRMED Cases
+1 Death =11 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 25.0%) (-Decrease in fatality/death rate)

============

*Sat Apr 13, 2013*
From REPORTED Cases:
+5 Cases = 49 CONFIRMED Cases
+1 Death =11 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 22.5.0%) (-Decrease in fatality/death rate)

From the fluwiki site. They are keeping a case/fatality spreadsheet. It' much easier for me to cut/paste from that sheet, so I 'll probably do that now.
http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5573/h7n9-cases

Additions, as of today:
Confirmed H7N9 Cases
# Location Age/Gender Symptom Onset Outcome Notes

45 China/Jiangsu-77F-Rep Apr 13, 2013-In critical condition Surname Gumou, from Nanjing
46 China/Jiangsu-72M-Rep Apr 13, 2013-In critical condition Surname Ma, from Changsu
47 China/Shanghai 56M-Apr 1, 2013-Not reported-Surname Gumou; husband of Case #14
48 China/Zhejiang-65M-Apr 3, 2013-In critical condition
49 China/Zhejiang 38M-Apr 6, 2013-In critical condition

============

*Sat Apr 13, 2013*

From REPORTED Cases:
51 CONFIRMED Cases (+2 cases)
11 CONFIRMED Deaths
(Fatality Rate = 21.6%) (-Decrease in fatality/death rate)

From the fluwiki site.
http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5573/h7n9-cases

Additions, as of today:
Confirmed H7N9 Cases

# Location Age/Gender Symptom Onset Outcome Notes

50 China/Henan-34M-Apr 6, 2013-In critical condition-Surname Ma; chef from Kaifeng Weishi
51 China/Henan-65M Apr 8, 2013-In stable condition-Surname Zhang; farmer from Zhoukou City

============

Note the increase in cases and the spread in cases. Also note that there is a 4 year old boy who is asymptomatic (infected, but NOT showing symptoms). THIS is an important development.

From REPORTED Cases:
61 CONFIRMED Cases (+10 cases)
13 CONFIRMED Deaths (+2 Deaths)
(Fatality Rate = 21.3%) (-Decrease in fatality/death rate)

From the fluwiki site.
http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5573/h7n9-cases

*Additions, as of today Sun Apr 14, 2013:*
Confirmed H7N9 Cases

# Location Age/Gender Symptom Onset Outcome Notes

52 -China/Zhejiang -64F -Apr 6, 2013 -In serious condition -Surname Xu; farmer from Huzhou
53 -China/Zhejiang -62F -Mar 29, 2013 -In serious condition-Surname Wang; retired from Huzhou
54 -China/Zhejiang -75M -Apr 6, 2013-In serious condition-Surname Chen; native of Wenzhou, now retired in Nanjing
55 -China/Zhejiang -79M -Apr 6, 2013-In serious condition -Retired in Hangzhou
56 -China/Jiangsu -50M -Rep Apr 14, 2013 -Condition not rep -From Qixia district
57 -China/Jiangsu -26M -Rep Apr 14, 2013 -Condition not rep -From Yancheng City
58 -China/Shanghai -73M -Apr 5, 2013 -Hospitalized -Surname Zhu, retiree
59 -China/Shanghai -54M -Apr 8, 2013 -Hospitalized -Surname Song, from Jiangxi
60 -China/Shanghai -78M -Apr 5, 2013 -Hospitalized -Surname Chen, retiree
61 -China/Beijing -4M -No symptoms -Neighbor of Case #44; asymptomatic but tested positive Apr 15

Deaths:
#12 -China/Shanghai -67F -Apr 4, 2013 -Died Apr 13, 2013 -Surname Cao
#26-China/Shanghai -77M -Apr 3, 2013 -Died Apr 14, 2013 -Surname Wang; retiree


----------



## FrankW

So far vast majority who is dieing are above 50 mostly 60.
And while this is expected it also shows that its currently virulence and trasnmissability in humand is insufficient t cause a wdiespread lethal pandemic because for that ot happen the virus needs to be successful in the young as well.

Otherwise the virus transmission chain wil be broekn too often to fully estabvlish itself.
The difference between a deadly pandemic and a notable but essentially no effects flu can be just an extra 10% less or more in transmissability.

One caution to the rationale i mentioned above is that we dont know the demographics of birdhandlers in china.

If they are , ,mostly 55+ then the above reasoning would not necessarily hold.


----------



## ReadyMom

*Well, yesterday's Boston Bombing totally took my attention, so here is the update for the China flu situation. Cases continue, as do the deaths. I just do not know who accurate the CFR is, so I am not going to continue calculating that. (There is the report of an asymptomatic child (does not show symptoms) so who knows how many are really infected and not being counted.) So, here's the update, as of this morning, 4/16/13:*

*From REPORTED Cases:*
72 CONFIRMED Cases (+21)
14 CONFIRMED Deaths (+3 )

*From FluTrackers Case Count Spread Sheet*
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202713

#52 - Woman, 64, Huzhou, Onset date April 6, in serious condition. Zhejiang Province
#53 - Woman, 62, Huzhou, Onset date March 29, in serious condition. Zhejiang Province
#54 - Man, 75, Nanjing, Onset date April 9, in serious condition. Zhejiang Province
#55 - Man, 79, Hanghzou, Onset date April 9, in serious condition. Zhejiang Province
#56 - Man, 50, Qixia District, Jiangsu province
#57 - Man, 26, Yancheng City Pavilion Lakes Jiangsu province
#58 - Man, 73, onset April 5, hospitalized April 8, Shanghai
#59 - Man, 54, onset April 8, hospitalized April 12, Shanghai
#60 - Man, 78, onset April 5, hospitalized April 7, Shanghai
#61 - Child, 4, PCR positive in routine screening of contacts/neighbors of case #44 - asymptomatic Beijing++++
#62 - Man, 60, diagnosed April 15, Kunshan City, Jiangsu province
#63 - Woman, 68, onset April 3, Huzhou, Zhejiang Province
#64 - Man, 60, hospitalized April 10/11, Tianchang, Anhui province
#65 - Man, 56, Nanjing Qinhuai District, hospitalized in serious condition. Jiangsu province
#66 - Woman, 21, Kunshan City, hospitalized in serious condition. Jiangsu province
#67 - Man, 72, Suzhou, hospitalized in serious condition. Jiangsu province
#68 - Man, 56, onset date April 12, hospitalized, Hangzhou Zhejiang Province
#69 - Man, 57, onset date April 10, hospitalized Hangzhou Zhejiang Province
#70 - Woman, 58, onset date April 11, hospitalized Hangzhou Zhejiang Province
#71 - Woman, 72, onset date April 10, hospitalized HangzhouZhejiang Province
#72 - Man, 62, onset date April 10, hospitalized Hangzhou Zhejiang Province

*3 Deaths:*
#12-67F-Shanghai-onset date 3/22-hospitalized 3/25-critical condition-Death 4/13/13
#28-77M-Shanghai-onset date 4/3-hospitalized 4/7-retired-Death 4/14/13
#45-77F-Nanjing former BaiziaDistrict, Jiangsu province-xx-Death 4/15/13


----------



## ReadyMom

*I missed yesterday's update ... busy day for me, but here's the latest case count, up to this morning, 4/19/13:*

*From REPORTED Cases:*
92 CONFIRMED Cases (+20)
17 CONFIRMED Deaths (+3 )

From FluTrackers Case Count Spread Sheet
http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showth ... p?t=202713

#73-47M-Shanghai-onset 4/10-hospitalized	
#74-69M?-Shanghai-Age/gender not yet confirmed; believed to be a son of Case #1; retrospectively diagnosed	
#75-55M-Shanghai-Age/gender not yet confirmed; believed to be a son of Case #1 who died of multiple organ failure; retrospectively diagnosed-Death late Feb 2013
#76-xx-Shanghai-No Details Retrospective cases discovered by testing samples-Death
#77-xx-Shanghai-" "	
#78-2Child-Hunan, Shangha-onset 3/17-now recovered-treated while traveling to Hunan province-3/19 retured to Shanghai 
#79-89M-ex-Jiangsu (?),Shanghai-onset 4/12-hospitalized 4/16-confirmed 4/17	
#80-37F-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province	onset 4/11-farmer	
#81-74M-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-onset 4/8-retired	
#82-86M-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-onset 4/13-retired	
#83-41M-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-onset 4/14-cadres	
#84-M38-Guancheng District Nancao, Henan province-poultry worker	
#85-26F-Xuanwu District, Nanjing, Jiangsu province-hospitalized	
#86-80F-Shanghai-Onset date 4/8. Hospitalized on 4/16. In stable condition	
#87-F54-Zhejiang Province	Jaxing.-Onset date4/13. In serious condition	
#88-M69-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-Onset date 4/11. In serious condition	
#89-M54-Jiangsu province	Xuanwu District, Nanjing. Hospitalized in critical condition	
#90-M43-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-onset on 4/12, in serious condition	
#91-M48-Hangzhou, Zhejiang province-onset on 4/11, in serious condition	
#92-F66-Huzhou, Zhejiang province-onset on 4/1/0, in serious condition

*3 New Deaths:*

#62-60M--Death-no date
#75-55M-Death late Feb 2013	
#76-xx-Death-No Date


----------



## Gians

Good that China is reacting quickly...still praying this one doesn't go 'person to person'.
http://www.wpro.who.int/china/mediacentre/releases/2013/20130424/en/index.html


----------



## FrankW

it must have already gone person-to-person since half of thos infected did not have contact will poultry.

Even though it clearly can go pers-to-person the transmission rate to currently much too low ot sustain a pandemic , or it would have already happened since this bug has been out there for months.

if it mutates before it fizzles out we will have a major pandemic on our hands.. if it doesn't mutate it will fizzle.


----------



## Sybil6

Eh, It's already traveling and I'm a little nervous. 109 infected, no cure so far, and 23 dead. I think the WHO is holding back information... Am I the only one?


----------



## swjohnsey

Well, you and Faithmarie


----------



## Sybil6

They keep pushing the "unlikeliness" of human-to-human transfer but people infected keep denying any contact with poultry.. 50% of infections, the victim claims no contact.. And with how crowded China (Shanghai and Beijing especially) it's likely that one infected crossed another's path..


----------



## swjohnsey

There is no "cure" for the flu. You treat the symptoms. So far 109 cases in a population of 1,250,000,000 people, a little early to worry. One case in 12,000,000, your chances are about as good to win the lottery.


----------



## Magus

swjohnsey said:


> Well, you and Faithmarie


And about a third of the rest of us.
True, there is no cure, but there are enough preventatives that there might as well be.


----------



## swjohnsey

Based on my statistics 101 class, about half of U.S. society has a two digit I.Q. I'm would be surprised if the number here wasn't higher. It was reported that last year's flu vaccine was 10% effective. That's close enough to a cure for me.


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## Magus

Aluminum, mercury and horse pus cures the flu?
Only a substitute teacher would believe that.
Why don't you try being constructive or helpful or at least share some 
actual ideas instead of crapping up our forum with pointless mental
manure hmm?


----------



## swjohnsey

Didn't I just say there was no cure for the flu? You need to work on your reading comprehension. I can help you.


----------



## Magus

swjohnsey said:


> Based on my statistics 101 class, about half of U.S. society has a two digit I.Q. I'm would be surprised if the number here wasn't higher. It was reported that last year's flu vaccine was 10% effective. That's close enough to a cure for me.


Well since I was reading at first year college level in the third grade, I think not.
Looks to me like you said, and I quote:


> It was reported that last year's flu vaccine was 10% effective. That's close enough to a cure for me.


No use editing your post now.


----------



## swjohnsey

Magus said:


> Well since I was reading at first year college level in the third grade, I think not.
> Looks to me like you said, and I quote:
> 
> No use editing your post now.


I should have included :laugh:. Sarcasm goes right over your head. You probably just overlooked the post #177, "There is no "cure" for the flu. You treat the symptoms. So far 109 cases in a population of 1,250,000,000 people, a little early to worry. One case in 12,000,000, your chances are about as good to win the lottery."

"I was reading at first year college level in the third grade." I have heard this many times. What the test you took actually determined was that you did as well on 3rd grade material as a first year college student on the same material. I used some of my G.I. Bill to become a reading specialist. I have given hundred/thousands of reading comprehension test over the years.


----------



## dingogirl

4702 posts and most of them are nothing but "yes man" comments. Please lets do something that adds to the conversation rather than just takes the side of the majority and throws in a sassy comment.


----------



## UncleJoe

swjohnsey said:


> "I was reading at first year college level in the third grade." I have heard this many times. What the test you took actually determined was that you did as well on 3rd grade material as a first year college student on the same material. I used some of my G.I. Bill to become a reading specialist. I have given hundred/thousands of reading comprehension test over the years.


If you are so well educated, so well traveled and so well-versed in so many areas of life, why is it you have so little positive energy to add to the board. :scratch :dunno:


----------



## swjohnsey

Positive energy has to agree with your point of view? See my posts on nutrition density and BOB.


----------



## FrankW

dingogirl said:


> 4702 posts and most of them are nothing but "yes man" comments. Please lets do something that adds to the conversation rather than just takes the side of the majority and throws in a sassy comment.


Thats not fair. 
Magus is a solid contributor here.:congrat:

And whats wrong with making a post that compliments another hard work? 
That is being a good citizen of our community!


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## FrankW

swjohnsey said:


> Positive energy has to agree with your point of view? See my posts on nutrition density and BOB.


Its good to be critical and not always a "hurrah" kinda of guy.
Different perspectives can be valuable but some cross the line into trolldom when they needlessly pick fights and insult people 
.

And as for this particular thread where you are so insightful to laugh at these concerns, let me tell you this: Before I went back military I made very good living as Science Adviser to senior military and civilian decision makers and _*I*_ think there is very good reason to follow this with a concerned eye.

Good enough for you?


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## UncleJoe

swjohnsey said:


> Positive energy has to agree with your point of view? See my posts on nutrition density and BOB.


I believe _your_ reading comprehension skills could use an upgrade. I said "so little." I did not say nothing.


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## FrankW

Perhaps the Moderators need a to show a bit firmer hand here...


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## dingogirl

no hard feelings mate, 
He has contributed a lot in certain areas and is thoughtful and inventive with scraps, tinkering, preps and the like. Everyone is entitled to say whatever they like. What has set this board apart from the others i have watched for years is the lack of chatter in specific topic areas. If we're specifically talking about pandemics etc, I hate reading blips, bumps, or comments on comments. I want it boiled down to the issue and the issue only. Chit chat is best on politics, news stories and the like. I only wanted to point out that the mere number of posts don't necessary equate to beneficial posts that bulk this site as reference material. 

love from Jersey.


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## Sybil6

I've still got a bad feeling about this flu. The last one that mutated like this did turn pandemic. And there has been no updates that I can find since the 25th. I may be young and not know much, but China has a tendency to hide things that may turn bad so they still look superior and so their population won't panic. 
Maybe I'm just paranoid, but a lot of bad things are happening and I feel like being overly paranoid and catching something before it happens is better than being too relaxed and being ready, but missing the sign.


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## ReadyMom

Friknnewguy said:


> I got my flu shot yesterday . I normally don't get one , but this is no normal flu . Like Uncle Joe I'm ok to hunker down here and try to contain our healthy air .


The flu shot you get for THIS YEAR's flu will NOT protect you against this flu strain. It is a strain of flu that has NOT been in the human population, before.


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## ReadyMom

*I was away for a bit, with limited access to internet. Here's two significant updates on the H7N9 event. One is that the virus has spread beyond the borders of China. The other is that a family cluster has been confirmed. *

*Bird Flu Strain Spreads as Taiwan Reports First H7N9 Case*
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-flu-infection-outside-china-in-traveler.html

Tim Culpan & Yu-Huay Sun Apr 24, 2013

*Taiwan confirmed an H7N9 bird flu infection in a traveler returning to the island from China, the first incidence of the killer virus spreading outside the mainland.*

*A 53-year-old Taiwanese man tested positive for the strain of avian flu after a business trip to the eastern city of Suzhou and returning to Taiwan *via Shanghai, Minister of Health Chiu Wen-ta said at a briefing in Taipei yesterday. The patient, who is in critical condition in an isolation room, didn't come into contact with birds and poultry, Chiu said.

The first discovery of the virus outside China, 10 years after an outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS, may lead to increased scrutiny of travelers into and out of the country. Taiwan's largest trade partner is battling to control spreading of the virus, which so far has killed 23, according to data compiled by Bloomberg from reports released by the government and World Health Organization.

"With any new influenza virus that emerges, the concern is that it could genetically mutate to become easily transmissible between human beings," Raina MacIntyre, a professor of infectious diseases at the University of New South Wales, said in an interview before the announcement of Taiwan's confirmed case. "With all past pandemics, and even with SARS, they were spread around the world by travel." --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---

Family Cluster: (That's not good)

*Four-year-old child of bird-flu infected man also develops H7N9 virus*
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-204_162...rd-flu-infected-man-also-develops-h7n9-virus/

*A 4-year-old boy has developed the new H7N9 strain of bird flu, the same strain his father had been infected with.*

Shandong province's health department says there is no evidence of human-to-human transmission, and that the boy is in stable condition at a hospital.

The Jinan Times newspaper says* the boy's 36-year-old father had no direct contact with poultry, but that the family lives near a market that sells live poultry.*

The H7N9 virus has infected 126 people in China, killing 23 of them.

Experts are watching it closely for any sign it could spark a pandemic, but say so far there is no evidence it can spread easily among people. They believe infections are caused by some kind of contact with sick birds._ --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---[/I



Sybil6 said:



I've still got a bad feeling about this flu. The last one that mutated like this did turn pandemic.

Click to expand...

There are a number of forums that are just for pandemic flu and they post daily news reports, statistics, evaluations, etc. on the current flu situation. Am I allowed to post links to those sites, since they are flu/pandemic specific and not general preparedness sites?  If not, please PM me and I'll give anyone interested the links to those sites._


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## ReadyMom

As mentioned earlier, there is NO cure for flu, but you can treat the symptoms. You can also take some PREVENTATIVE care, that *may* help you have milder symptoms. There has been some research that suggests that taking Elderberry helps with this. I posted about it, back in Jan 2013, on this forum:



> Regarding sambucol/elderberry, this is a VERY good item to have in your supplies. There have been much written on the topic of using this. On another forum that I frequent, a person who is in the medical field wrote the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sambucol has been proven in several double blind clinical trials to prevent influenza. The trials are publishd and indexed in Pubmed. It binds to the receptors that the influenza virus would bind too, so that there is "no room at the in" for the viron. I buy it by the case. It is a lozenge (or syrup) form of elderberry. Pills will not work since they are digested in the stomach/intestines and you need this in the back of your mouth.
Click to expand...

The flu forums that I mentioned above have some in-depth discussions on the use & success of elderberry, how to make it, where to buy it, etc. -k


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## ReadyMom

_I posted this over on another forum that I frequent:_

*We still do NOT know how this H7N9 flu event will turn out.* You can follow this situation, over in China as it unfolds at the following forums:

{Removed forum links, till I get permisssion from Admin to post them}

For information on how to prepare for a global flu pandemic,* if it is a LARGE illness pandemic*, you should:



Be pre-stocked with over the counter meds (such as posted, above) NOW. In the event of a flu pandemic stores will run out quickly. We saw this with the 2009 flu pandemic. 
Be prepared to possibly treat your family AT HOME if hospitals are overwhelmed with patients.
Have child care options available in case YOU are sick or in case the facility or school your child attends is closed due to the pandemic. 
Have a 'flu kit' stocked under your bed, in case you are home alone and need access to the flu meds on your own.
Have easy to make meals available for your kids/young adults, in case you are hit with the flu and can not make the family meals.

*If this turns into a large death event,* *then we are talking a whole new ball game, even for the seasoned prepper.* You would have to be prepared for extreme prep issues including ALL of the above PLUS:

TOTALLY OVERWHELMED hospitals & docs. You won't be able to get medical help from them. You will be on your own.
'Community Mitigation' measures, including 'sheltering in place' (NO contact with anyone outside your household), closure of public facilities including stores, local businesses, schools, etc. 
quarantine of anyone you are allowing into your home for at least 7 days, before they enter your home, to make sure they do not have the virus (have a quarantine area available)
Designated sick room with sick room supplies already in place for home care vs hospital care (they will be too full to help you)
The ability to 'bury' your own family members

Pandemic Specific flu supplies should be available and already stocked, including:
N95 or N100 mask
Surgical style gloves (for the caretaker or if you HAVE to go out) The virus can enter your body through ANY opening ie: eyes, nose, mouth.
Sick Room & Sick Room Supplies


:radioactive: Preparing for a large death pandemic is NOT the same as preparing for other large scale emergencies (even an EMP event) because you can NOT mingle with other people. (Even in an EMP event, you can be with other people). If you mingle with other people, you could get the virus.You MUST 'shelter-in-place' AWAY from others.

During this type of pandemic, you will have excessive numbers of folks ill and then if it is a high-death virus, enormous numbers of deaths in your community. You would most likely have to deal with the death & burial of your family members by yourself. I have been at pandemic meetings for the H5N1 flu, where there were arrangements being made to use skating rinks and freezers at ice cream manufacturers, etc as temporary morques :'( . Discussion was had, regarding utilizing sports arenas as mass-hospitals. So, the suggestion of home-care and home-death care is not an exaggeration.

I have an extensive area of my EmergencyHomePreparation site dedicated to pandemic preparations. The address is in my sig line, below, if you are interested.

Like I said ... this is a fluid situation in China, right now, and we don't know how its going to go. But there is concern regarding the mutations the virus is taking and the unusual way it is attacking vital organs. I also read, today, that Canada is also concerned about H2H transmission and is giving the same advisement to their country, that we rec'd this weekend for our country. I'll go look for the link and pass it on.


----------



## ReadyMom

*I don't see that I previously posted this:*








Hat tip to "bgw in MT " over at FluWiki:

H7N9 bird flu may mutate 8 times faster than regular flu, study finds
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/arti...mutate-8-times-faster-regular-flu-study-finds

*The new bird flu could be mutating up to eight times faster than an average flu virus* around a protein that binds it to humans, a team of research scientists in Shenzhen says.

Dr He Jiankui, an associate professor at South University of Science and Technology of China, said yesterday that the *authorities should be alarmed by the results of their research and step up monitoring and control efforts to prevent a possible pandemic.*

With genetic code of the virus obtained from mainland authorities, the team scrutinised haemagglutinin, a protein that plays a crucial rule in the process of infection. The protein binds the virus to an animal cell, such as respiratory cells in humans, and bores a hole in the cell's membrane to allow entry by the virus.

The researchers found dramatic mutation of haemagglutinin in one of the four flu strains released for study by the central government. Nine of the protein's 560 amino acids had changed. In a typical flu virus, only one or two amino acids could change in such a short period of time, He said.

*"It happened in just one or two weeks. The speed may not have caught up with the HIV, but it's quite unusual for a flu."*

*The fast mutation makes the virus' evolutionary development very hard to predict. "We don't know whether it will evolve into something harmless or dangerous,"* He said. "Our samples are too limited. But* the authorities should definitely be alarmed and get prepared for the worst-case scenario."*

The origin of the virus was puzzling due to its novelty, but He's research suggested some clues that differ from the mainland authorities' theories.

His team compared the new virus strain to all other H7N9 viruses identified in Europe and in other Asian countries that were cited by the Ministry of Agriculture as possible origins of the new bird flu, but found them all very different.

In fact, the new bird flu was quite similar to some familiar domestic viruses such as H9N2, H11N9 and H7N3 found in Zhejiang and Jiangsu.

He said researchers could not rule out the possibility that the new virus was carried into China by wild birds, but it was more likely to be of local origin.


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## ReadyMom

*This is a 'red-flag' to me. If CDC is activating this, then they are worried. *-k








Hat Tip to "UK - Bird" over at FluWiki:










CDC activates emergency center over H7N9
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/avianflu/news/apr0913cdc.html

Robert Roos * News Editor

Apr 9, 2013 (CIDRAP News) - *The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) activated its Emergency Operations Center (EOC) in Atlanta yesterday* to support the response to the H7N9 influenza outbreak in China, CDC officials said in an e-mailed statement today.

*The EOC was activated at level 2, the second of three levels*. Level 1, the highest, signals an agency-wide response. "This is a limited activation that allows for the use of additional resources and staff to meet the technical needs of a public health response," the agency said.

Activation was prompted because the novel H7N9 avian influenza virus has never been seen before in animals or humans and because reports from China have linked it to severe human disease, the agency said.

"Since this is an international outbreak, activation of the EOC provides resources, logistical support, and avenues of communication with international partners that make management of the situation easier," the CDC said, adding that it is collaborating closely with authorities in China and other countries.

"Additionally, in this stage of investigation and intense planning, activation of the EOC is intended to ensure that internal connections are developed and maintained and that CDC staff are kept informed and up to date with regard to the changing situation," the statement said.

Information on the number of personnel involved in the CDC response was not available at this writing.

Information on the CDC Web site says the last EOC response was for Japan's severe earthquake and tsunami in 2011.


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## ReadyMom

*NOTE: THIS is an important report, right now. *IF* the virus starts to spread quickly (which flu viruses can, because they are so darn unpredictable) and there is no vaccine, we CANNOT STOP the spread. -k*








Hat Tip to "pogge " over at FluWiki:

Branswell: Making vaccine for new flu H7N9 flu virus could be a challenge, experts say 
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ar...uld-be-a-challenge-experts-say-202595101.html

TORONTO - ITORONTO -* Making a vaccine to protect against the new H7N9 flu virus that has emerged in eastern China could prove to be problematic*, influenza experts acknowledged Thursday.

*There hasn't been enough time to produce even the seed strain to make H7N9 vaccine,* let alone small batches of a prototype vaccine for testing.* So researchers haven't had a chance to see how a vaccine against this new flu strain might work in people.
*
*But clinical trials of vaccines made to protect against other viruses in the H7 family have shown the vaccines don't induce much of an immune response, even when people are given what would be considered very large doses.*

"In all cases where these vaccines were trialed, it was found that the vaccines were poorly immunogenic," said Nancy Cox, the virologist who heads the influenza branch at the U.S. Centers for Diseases Control in Atlanta.

"And so this is a signal that we might be facing challenges with producing an immunogenic vaccine using this particular virus. But that remains to be determined." CONTINUED at LINK, above ...


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## ReadyMom

*BOTH the USA & CANADA are issuing warnings/advisories to their countries to watch for the H7N9 flu virus:*

Brace for bird flu in United States, CDC tells doctors
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/health/130419/brace-bird-flu-united-states-cdc-tells-doctors

*Brace for bird flu in the United States,* authorities told health-care workers on Thursday, as China announced 92 confirmed cases of the new, mysterious H7N9 stain of the illness.

*Hospitals and clinics should be vigilant for people exhibiting flu-like symptoms who have travelled from China,* the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said.

The CDC also issued on Thursday "interim guidance" regarding the use of antiviral drugs in treating the disease. There is no vaccine available for this strain of H7N9 avian flu, the CDC said, although it cautioned that the measures it is taking are routine.

While there is little evidence the disease is easily transmitted from poultry to humans, experts are watching the new strain closely because of its sudden arrival. Because the strain is considered "novel," or non-human, the threat of pandemic remains high should the disease mutate and spread between people.

*"So far, this virus has not been determined to have that capability. However, influenza viruses constantly change and it's possible that this virus could gain that ability," the CDC says.*

According to Chinese media, 17 people have died after contracting the illness. Xinhua news agency also reports four new cases between Thursday and Friday at 5 pm. Chinese doctors have released seven of those who contracted bird flu while 67 continue to receive treatment. _CONTINUEd at LINK, above ...._

===================== *Canada is also issuing a warning to their folks:*

Link for Canada item: (Hat Tip to [email protected] over at Flu Wiki)

Canada: N.S. doctors urged to watch for new bird flu strain (Nova Scotia) 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2013/04/19/ns-bird-flu-lookout.html

The provincial health department is urging doctors in Nova Scotia to be on the lookout for a new form of bird flu. Health officials are saying it's unlikely the new strain of influenza will show up here in the province, but they're not taking any chances. Dr. Robert Strang, the province's chief public health officer, issued a memo on April 12, *advising Nova Scotia physicians to look for anyone with flu-like symptoms who has recently travelled to China or anyone with severe respiratory symptoms*.

(Snip)

Though the World Health Organization said Friday there's no evidence a new bird flu strain is spreading easily among people in China, even though *there may be sporadic cases of the virus spreading to people who have close contacts with infected patients*. The source of the virus remains unclear because* only a handful of birds - out of tens of thousands that have been tested - have been found to carry the H7N9 virus. Also, many of the patients have no reported history of contact with birds.*

(Snip)

Dr. Todd Hatchette, the service chief of microbiology at Halifax's Victoria General Hospital, said there is a limited chance the virus will show up here in Nova Scotia. However, he said that *medical officials are busy ensuring protocols are in place, just in case a strange flu appears.*

Hatchette has experience with new strains of influenza. His laboratory was the first in the country to confirm H1N1 during the last pandemic in 2009. "I remember the day vividly. It was a Saturday afternoon when we identified an unusual strain. We had to transport the virus by police escort to the national lab in Winnipeg," said Hatchette. He said the H1N1 strain was identified within 24 hours and he said he is confident that if a new strain of flu appears in Nova Scotia, the right protocols are in place for a swift identification of the virus._ --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---_


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## ReadyMom

MORE:

*In face of bird flu H7N9, Vietnam starts temperature screenings at airports *
http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/...-sets-temperature-screenings-at-airports.aspx

*Minnesota issues health alert for new H7N9 flu strain *
http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/health/203854571.html?


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## ReadyMom

*If you are familiar with treating H7N9 flu symptoms with Tamiflu (prescribed by your doctor), you may not be able to rely on this med to help you. See this:*

Hat tip to Okieman, over at Flu Wiki:

*Why the Chinese are experimenting with Peramavir*

Posted on Monday, April 15, 2013 at 09:18AM by Scott McPherson

(snip)

It was Giuseppe Michieli, another intrepid flu blogger from Italy, who posted this article on FluTrackers.com at the onset of the H7N9 outbreak.* The Chinese equivalent of the FDA gave emergency approval for peramavir* to be used in the treatment of H7N9 bird flu patients.

(snip)

The Chinese kews very early on that they were dealing with the* potential of a Tamiflu-and Relenza-resistant strain of bird flu. They knew of one case, and were worried that they might have a larger problem on their hands.*

Subsequent samples have not shown the motation at that position on the neuraminidase strand, according to Chinese experts. Obviously, much more testing is needed before that claim can be validated. But we see Tamiflu mutations crop up, from time to time. One of my blogs on that very topic can be found here. It is expected that influenza will mutate itself around certain road blocks and barriers. But it also helps when Humankind accelerates the process.

(snip)

The number of confirmed Chinese cases is, as we expected, growing significantly -- as are the number of new locations where the virus has been detected. They were right to be alarmed when they sequenced a Tamiflu-resistant pandemic candidate. But there may be evidence to conclude there is ongoing use of peramavir.

(snip)

The Chinese media reported on the recent Beijing H7N9 case, the first of its kind in that city. Here is how she is being treated:

The child received the drug *Tamiflu as well as intravenous drips* (bold mine) on Thursday night and later was transferred to an intensive care unit after condition worsened. After an oxygen therapy and other treatment, her suffocation and coughing symptoms eased markedly and body temperature fell to 37 degrees Celsius from 40.2 degrees Celsius, a spokesman with the Beijing Ditan Hospital said.

*I think it odd that the press should go out of its way to say a flu patient has something in her arm, and that this substance is part of her treaatment.*

(snip)

*But the simple hypothesis is that once the Chinese knew they had at least one strain of Tamiflu-resistant H7N9, they wasted no time roilling out the new stuff, regardless how they procured it. *


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## ReadyMom

H7N9 influenza: What you should know now 
http://getreadyforflu.blogspot.com/...you-should-know-now.html?utm_source=BP_recent

Friday, April 19, 2013

[From the American Public Health Association Blog]

Today's guest blog post by Dr. Michael Jhung, medical officer for the influenza division, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, provides a status report of flu activity as of April 18, 2013, and tells you what you need to know about this novel virus that to date has led to 87 confirmed illnesses and 17 deaths.

...
*Here are some things you should know about the current H7N9 situation*

1. It is still early in the response and there is a tremendous amount that we don't know. Our information is likely to be updated and change frequently as we learn more about H7N9. To stay informed, please visit our H7N9 page.

2. There are no confirmed cases of human infection in the U.S., and there is currently no evidence that the virus can spread in a sustained way from person-to-person. Other than advice for travelers or people who are ill, CDC is not making any additional or special recommendations for U.S. public action specific to H7N9. Travelers should continue to visit CDC's Travelers' Health page on H7N9 for CDC's current travel recommendations.

3. After the first human infections with H7N9 were detected in China, Chinese authorities detected H7N9 viruses in poultry in the same area where human infections have occurred. China is investigating cases, their exposures and their contacts closely. Many of the humans infected with H7N9 are reported to have had contact with poultry. The current working assumption is that most human infections with H7N9 have resulted from exposure to infected birds or contaminated environments. The extent of the outbreak in poultry is still being assessed, but China has reportedly begun removing birds from live markets. Shanghai is currently taking extra precautions by closing down its live poultry markets for the time being.

4. On Thursday, April 11, CDC received the first H7N9 virus isolate from China. Since this H7N9 virus is new and has pandemic potential, we are using the virus isolate from China to develop a candidate vaccine virus that could be used to make a vaccine if one is needed.

5. CDC also is using the virus isolate from China to:

o Develop a test kit for detecting H7N9 infections in humans.
o Test for the presence of antibodies against the H7N9 virus in human blood samples. This will allow CDC to see if some people already have immunity against this virus.
o Test to see whether existing antiviral drugs i.e., Tamiflu and Relenza will work to treat people who become ill from H7N9.

6. The investigation in China has not revealed any sustained - or ongoing - human-to-human spread of this virus, but non-sustained human-to-human spread of bird flu viruses has occurred in the past, most notably with H5N1. It's likely that some limited human-to-human spread of H7N9 will occur. Sustained, community transmission is needed for a pandemic to start.

Visit cdc.gov for more information on human-to-human transmission.


----------



## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to bgw in MT, over at FluWiki:

New Bird Flu Spreads: What You Need To Know
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-04/new-bird-flu-spreads-what-you-need-know

This is a concise

The deadly H7N9 has advanced beyond mainland Chin
*Here's the latest:*

*What is H7N9?* The virus is a bird flu (a virus that originated from one adapted to attack birds) of a particular type. This outbreak is the first time an H7N9 virus has been found to infect people.
*
How many people have gotten sick?* As of 4 p.m. April 23 in China, the flu has infected 108 people in China, mostly in the provinces around Shanghai, as well as one person in Taiwan who traveled regularly in eastern China. Most infected people have severe symptoms. Twenty-two people have died.
*
Is this a pandemic?* There's still no evidence that H7N9 spreads easily between people, a trait that's necessary for a pandemic. Nevertheless, both Fukuda and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have said it wouldn't be surprising if person-to-person transmission happened occasionally during this outbreak.

*How do people get H7N9?* At least in some cases, exactly how people are getting sick seems to be a mystery. Taiwanese officials said the infected Taiwanese man hadn't been near birds when he visited China, nor had he eaten undercooked poultry or eggs.

While some families have had more than one member get sick at the same time, scientists aren't sure if that means they're getting the illness from each other, or if they're simply all exposed to the same birds or other infectious factors, Fukuda said.

H7N9 does seem to move more easily from birds to people than H5N1, the bird flu that began infecting people in Asia in 2003, Fukuda said.

*What does it mean when the World Health Organization says this is one of the most lethal flus scientists have ever seen?* Many news outlets have reported on Fukuda's comment that "this is definitely one of the most lethal influenza viruses that we have seen so far." Fukuda is referring to how many people H7N9 kills, out of all the people it infects. So far, it's killed 22 people out of 108 confirmed cases.

In the U.S., seasonal flu annually kills anywhere from 3,000 to 49,000 people (it's different every year) of the five to 20 percent of the country's entire population that gets infected.

H5N1 killed up to 60 people out of every 100 infected, CNN reported.

*What is China doing about this?* The Chinese government has slowed H7N9's spread by shutting down live poultry markets in hotspot areas, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Compared to its reaction to previous disease outbreaks, such as SARS, the Chinese government is being very open about what's happening, allowing outsiders to track how much of a threat H7N9 will be, the Washington Post reported. Chinese scientists have published a paper about what happened to the first three people to die from H7N9. They've also shared virus samples and genetic information with scientists around the world


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## ReadyMom

Hat Tip to "shhh!", over at Pandemic Flu Information:

Here's What Happens When You Get Bird Flu

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-happens-h7n9-bird-flu-infection-2013-4#ixzz2RfIULLI3
Jennifer Welsh | Apr. 26, 2013, 4:26 PM | 3,623 | 3

There are still many things we don't know about the H7N9 bird flu that's been infecting people all over China (and even Taiwan).

Here's what we know happens when you get infected.

*First contact*
First, you come into contact with an animal infected with the virus. The virus seems to originally come from poultry, but it has adapted to be able to infect mammals and other birds, too.

We aren't sure how many people are coming into contact with the virus - only about 40% remember having contact with poultry. They could be picking it up from other animals.

It may also be transmitted from human to human, but if it can, it doesn't do it well yet.

*Incubation*
We don't know how long the virus sticks around in the body before showing symptoms. Once you get infected with the virus, you probably won't notice for about a week. The virus seems to have a seven-day incubation time, though that may be different between people.

*First symptoms appear*
Fever and fatigue : When you do start showing symptoms expect a fever, sweating, and fatigue, but no respiratory or gastrointestinal symptoms, which is what the Taiwanese patient experienced. Other cases, such as patient 8, developed diarrhea as their first symptom.

The Centers For Disease Control (CDC) suggest that symptoms start with a high fever and a cough

*Fever worsens*
Four days later you will develop a high fever, sweating, and fatigue. You will definitely start feeling sick, and probably visit your doctor.

*Pneumonia*
After another two days, an X-ray of your chest will shows signs of pneumonia - your lungs are getting inflamed and leaky in an effort to fight off the virus. Your symptoms worsen and it will get progressively more and more difficult to breathe.

*Respiratory failure*
The pneumonia leads to respiratory failure, which is when your inflamed lungs get so full of fluid that they can no longer perform their main function: exchanging carbon dioxide in your blood for oxygen in the air.

*Acidosis*
Your blood oxygen levels plummet and the carbon dioxide builds up in your blood, making it acidic.

*Intubation*
To keep your brain and body from failing, you are put on a respirator, which pumps 100 percent oxygen into your lungs with enough pressure to push it through the liquid that's built up and preventing gas exchange.

You will be sedated while on the respirator.

*Septic shock*
As your lungs continue to fail and the virus wreaks havoc on your body, you go into septic shock as the virus invades your bloodstream. You will have a fever over 100 Fahrenheit, fast breathing (if you aren't ventilated), a high heart beat, and your white blood cells will be going crazy.

*Multiple organ dysfunction*
The septic shock will cause multiple organ dysfunction syndrome as your body's inflammatory response in its efforts to beat back the virus injures your organs.

*Death*
Eventually your body gives in and you die.

The symptoms above are based on our current understanding of the virus, and they are only meant to be a representation of what is currently understood. If you have visited China recently, have been in contact with poultry, and are showing flu-like symptoms, visit your doctor immediately


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## ReadyMom

*I'm REALLY liking this quick synopsis of the current H7N9 flu news that Fluwiki is now posting. So, instead of the list of cases & deaths, for each day/few days, I'm going to 'borrow' their daily post. It gives a better overview of the situation. You can go to their site -- where those more well versed in pandemic post full news reports & discussion of what's happening, here: FluWiki Forum If you do visit that site and see something significant to share, please cut/paste it over here, to PrepSociety! *  -K



> *Synopsis of Yesterday's News:*
> 
> 5 new cases reported in China, *including 1 confirmed family cluster & 1 possible family cluster* :caution:
> *125 total confirmed H7N9 cases *(+1 confirmed asymptomatic case) in China, of which:
> 24 have died
> 22 have recovered
> 79 are hospitalized
> 1 confirmed case in Taiwan (hospitalized)


----------



## ReadyMom

dingogirl said:


> 4702 posts and most of them are nothing but "yes man" comments. Please lets do something that adds to the conversation rather than just takes the side of the majority and throws in a sassy comment.


I hope the posts I just made help to give you the information that you are looking for! -k


----------



## Sybil6

This info was helpful, though it didn't change the tolls I already had on infection rate and death rate. I know very little on the "recovery" of the infected, and it still concerns me. The symptoms and other information was great though.


----------



## ReadyMom

Sybil6 said:


> This info was helpful, though it didn't change the tolls I already had on infection rate and death rate. I know very little on the "recovery" of the infected, and it still concerns me. The symptoms and other information was great though.


Did you see the synopsis for yesterday? The number of recovered, so far are 22.


----------



## ReadyMom

ReadyMom said:


> Did you see the synopsis for yesterday? The number of recovered, so far are 22.


Sybil: Here's a good blog report that you may be interested in. I think that it keeps the *current* H7N9 situation in perspective: H7N9: CFR Considerations


Here are a couple of snips from that blog:



> At this time we don't know how many of those currently hospitalized will recover, and - just as importantly - how many additional `mild' cases might be out there that have not been diagnosed and counted.





> So, the big question is, are the 125 cases we've seen to date a fair representation of true spread of this virus, or are only `sickest of the sick' showing up at the hospital?


----------



## Sybil6

ReadyMom said:


> Sybil: Here's a good blog report that you may be interested in. I think that it keeps the *current* H7N9 situation in perspective: H7N9: CFR Considerations
> 
> 
> Here are a couple of snips from that blog:


Thanks!


----------



## Tweto

I was just reviewing the locations of the known cases of H7N9 in China and what smacks me in the face are the locations are all over the central portions of China. Based on a 1 week incubation period, I would have to surmise that if this virus became person to person, it could infect 10's of thousands of people all over the world before it was detected.

Also; I checked about half of the known cases and they appear to be all female or the very young or the old. This opens the possibility that working age males maybe avoiding the doctors and are unknown infected. If this is true then the number of infected could be multiples more then reported.

Because the CDC as started level 2 CIRAP, they may suspect something similar.

I would like comments from the medical background members about my findings. If I'm full of it let me know, the only thing important is what the truth is.

Thanks


----------



## swjohnsey

Time to panic!


----------



## *Andi

swjohnsey said:


> Time to panic!


Or not ...


----------



## ReadyMom

*! *Recommended Reading:

*Chinese Science Bulletin: Early H7N9 Risk Analysis*
http://afludiary.blogspot.com/2013/04/chinese-science-bulletin-early-h7n9.html

From the open access journal Chinese Science Bulletin, we've an early epidemiology and risk analysis of the emerging H7N9 virus in China that paints a particularly worrisome picture of where these authors believe this outbreak might be headed.

-SNIP-

The results showed that the elderly cases, especially the male elderly, were significantly more than expected, which is different from human cases of H5N1 avian influenza and human cases of the pandemic H1N1 influenza.

The results showed that the elderly cases, especially the male elderly, were significantly more than expected, which is different from human cases of H5N1 avian influenza and human cases of the pandemic H1N1 influenza.

* The outbreak was rated as a Grade III (severe) outbreak, and it would evolve into a Grade IV (very severe) outbreak soon,* using a method reported previously. The H7N9 AIV will probably circulate in humans, birds and pigs for years. *Moreover, with the driving force of natural selection, the virus will probably evolve into highly pathogenic AIV in birds, and into a deadly pandemic influenza virus in humans.*

*Therefore, the H7N9 outbreak has been assumed severe, and it is likely to become very or extremely severe in the future,* highlighting the emergent need of forceful scientific measures to eliminate any infected animal flocks. We also described two possible mild scenarios of the future evolution of the outbreak.

-SNIP-

*While conceding that this virus could `disappear naturally, or maintain its low pathogenicity in birds and limited transmission ability in humans for a long period', the authors articulate eight reasons why they believe this outbreak poses - in their words - an `enormous risk'.* _--- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---_


----------



## ReadyMom

MORE from Croft's Blog: --- *NOTE: Croft is a very respected blogger,so this is a blog entry I'm paying VERY CLOSE attention to. If he's worried ... I'm worried. I've been checking over my sick room list, my medical/first aid list and re-inventorying everything for those areas, today. Medical stuff is expensive, so I want to allow myself as much time as possible to up date these supplies. -k*

*H7N9: Are we in for the duration?*
http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2013/04/h7n9-are-we-in-for-the-duration.html

April 29, 2013

Mike Coston at Avian Flu Diary has posted Chinese Science Bulletin: Early H7N9 Risk Analysis ( http://afludiary.blogspot.ca/2013/04/chinese-science-bulletin-early-h7n9.html ). I downloaded the PDF, opened it up, and started reading.* Get over there and download it for yourself, because you need to.* I promise it will be on the final exam.

*After a page, I printed out all four pages and started reading again with a highlighter in my hand*. Before I was done, I was remembering Sergeant Williams, calling us trainees together on the firing range the morning of November 22, 1963 to tell us the president had been shot.

"Any of you draftees think you're in for your two years and out again-if anything comes out of this, you're in for the duration," he said.

*If this paper is accurate, we are all in for the duration.* *The authors, who appear to be major influenza experts, have drawn on the first 91 cases of H7N9 to project where it might go. Maybe other experts will demolish their conclusions; I certainly hope so*.

The paper was submitted to Chinese Science Bulletin on April 11 and accepted on April 23. Less than two months after the first Mr. Li fell ill in Shanghai, the team assessed the cases so far. They offered a formula for judging the severity of outbreaks, and defined the outbreak as Grade III (severe).

*Here's what clinched it for me: They predicted that it would become a Grade IV (very severe) outbreak by the end of April, when the case numbers would exceed 100. And so they have.

So I'm prepared to accept their eight-point argument, despite its occasionally incorrect English, that H7N9 "is of enormous risk," and some of those points seem irrefutable: it will be "extremely tough" to eliminate it from China's vast bird and pig populations, so it will spread rapidly. One wild bird with H7N9, found in Jiangsu province, indicates it will spread beyond China. * --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ---


----------



## FrankW

Great liks! Thanks!


----------



## ReadyMom

From FluWiki. You Can view this synopsis and the news for TODAY here: http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5612/news-reports-for-may-2-2013



> Synopsis of News for May 1, 2013:
> 
> *1 new H7N9 case reported in China (Hunan);* 2 new deaths (Jiangsu) and 2 additional recoveries reported
> *127 total confirmed H7N9 cases *(+1 confirmed asymptomatic case) in China, of which:
> 26 have died
> 26 have recovered
> 75 are hospitalized
> 1 confirmed case in Taiwan (hospitalized)


----------



## Drumrunner

*may be useful...*



ReadyMom said:


> From FluWiki. You Can view this synopsis and the news for TODAY here: http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5612/news-reports-for-may-2-2013


Hope this is helpful
Drumrunner


----------



## oldasrocks

Sounds like you only need to worry if you are an old man who likes chicken. Probably airborne so no place to hide.

I'm suggesting a large party for us old guys.


----------



## ReadyMom

From FluWiki. You Can view this synopsis and the news for TODAY here: http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5613/news-reports-for-may-3-2013

Synopsis of News for May 2, 2013:



> * No new H7N9 cases reported;* 1 death of a previously-reported case
> *127 total confirmed H7N9 cases in China* (+1 confirmed asymptomatic case) to date, of which:
> 27 have died
> 26 have recovered
> 74 are hospitalized
> *1 confirmed H7N9 case in Taiwan *(hospitalized
> 7 new novel Coronavirus (nCoV) cases in Saudi Arabia, of which 5 were fatal


----------



## ReadyMom

From FluWiki. You Can view this synopsis and the news for TODAY here: http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5618/news-reports-for-may-7-2013



> Synopsis of News for May 6, 2013:
> 
> *1 new H7N9 case* (Fujian-recovered)
> *4 additional H7N9 deaths* (Jiangsu-2, Zhejiang-1, Anhui-1)
> 4 additional H7N9 recoveries (1 in Shandong; 3 not identified)
> Cumulative: 129 total confirmed H7N9 cases in China (+1 confirmed asymptomatic case), of which:
> 
> 31 have died
> 42 have recovered
> 56 are hospitalized
> 
> Cumulative: 1 confirmed H7N9 case in Taiwan (hospitalized)


----------



## faithmarie

Thanks for posting these ReadyMom


----------



## ReadyMom

From FluWiki. You Can view this synopsis and the news for TODAY here: http://www.newfluwiki2.com/diary/5621/news-reports-for-may-10-2013



> Synopsis of News for May 9, 2013:
> 
> H7N9:
> • *No new cases reported*
> • Cumulative: 130 confirmed cases in China (+1 confirmed asymptomatic case), 32 deaths
> • Cumulative: 1 confirmed case in Taiwan, 0 deaths


----------



## ReadyMom

*Hopefully, this is good news: *








Hat Tip to "bgw in MT", over at FluWiki:

Shanghai terminates contingency for bird flu
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2013-05/10/content_16491484.htm?

Updated: 2013-05-10 21:29 ( chinadaily.com.cn)

*Considering that no new H7N9 birdflu virus infections have been reported in the city for 20 consecutive days, the Shanghai municipal government announced the termination of Influenza Pandemic Contingency Plan (Level III), according to a circular released on the municipal government's official website on Friday.*

The decision was based on a meeting of experts held on May 8, which concluded that the situation was under control.

*All the 458 people who had close contact with people infected with the virus in the city have been released from medical observation,* the circular said.

Currently there is no evidence to show that the H7N9 bird flu virus can spread from human to human, the circular said.

By May 10, 33 people had been confirmed to be infected with H7N9 bird flu virus in Shanghai, among which 13 died, 15 have recovered, and five are under medical treatment.

*The city's live poultry trading zones, which have be closed in the past few weeks to prevent the further spreading of the virus, will remain suspended, according to the circular. * --- CONTINUED at LINK, above ----


----------



## swjohnsey

Never mind!


----------



## jeremiyah

*Andi said:


> It may or may not be ...
> 
> The media tells us what they want us to hear. To be honest, I lost all faith in "News and the media" a long time ago. They could be telling the truth or doing what they do all the time ... (We need to make it Bigger than the the other guys)
> 
> I will keep doing what I have been ... Note to self ... make more thieves oil.
> 
> It may all be true, then again it may be just the LSM ...


Right on, Andie.

The first time I saw that people on this forum were discussing flu shots, etc, I thought I must have dropped into an alternate universe; preppers / survivalists trusting the gov's solution to a phony problem? That is insanity to me.
Allegedly, 80% of allopathically treated patients died during the Spanish Influenza, especially those treated with the new wonder drug, salicylic acid - aspirin, while 80 % of those treated homeopathically survived. (started in troops at Ft Riley Ks / source Ft Detrick Md -yes, all of that, allegedly, but the facts do point to a Bio-engineered disease. 
No, we will never know the truth, just like Kennedy the assassination, OKC, WTC, Sandy Hook, Bogus Bombings at Boston Marathon, 










West/Waco JDAM bombing, etc) 



 There are so many alternative therapies which work; Thieves Oil, as you say, (Heritage Essential Oils is a good source, (Linda's version of Thieves is Ancient Defense, I think, and is 100 bucks for 4 ounces...ah! here it is: Plague Defense $124 for 8 Oz!!!
Clove, Lemon, Cinnamon Bark, Eucalyptus Radiata, Rosemary ct.

Properties and Usage:
This blend of essential oils was created from historical information about a group of 15th-century thieves who rubbed oils on themselves to avoid contracting the plague while they robbed the bodies of the dead and dying. When apprehended, these thieves disclosed the formula of herbs, spices, and oils they used to protect themselves in exchange for more lenient punishment.

This blend of essential oils is high in anti-microbial properties. The oils are highly antiviral, antiseptic, antibacterial, anti-infectious and help to protect the body against such illnesses as flu, colds, sinusitis, bronchitis, pneumonia, sore throats, cuts, and so on.

In November of 2005, an important discovery was made: Mold, even heavy infestations of toxic mold, could be eliminated from homes and office buildings using a blend of essential oils: Clove, Lemon, Cinnamon Bark, Eucalyptus Radiata and Rosemary. (See the studies in Dr. Edward Close's book, Nature's Mold Rx.) He recommends this model diffuser: http://heritageessentialoils.com/heritage-pro.php)

Colloidal Silver, (can be used topically on burns, wounds, etc, and also taken internally, it can be nebulized as well, and can knock out pneumonia in 10 minutes (seen it happen). Conversely, I *knew* two men who left behind young families b/c they went to the ER, got drugs, their lungs relaxed, filled up, and they died. "Oh sorry, Mrs. Johnson, we did everything we could (it is certainly not our fault); your husband did not make it (it was his fault).
- Other therapies, include Ozone / oxygenation therapy via Peroxide, MMS, Iodine, etc, 
-also, Ph control via Green drinks, minerals (kelp, sea salt, etc) Apple Cider Vinegar, Baking Soda, Lemon Juice, etc, 
-Saline Therapies (Salt pipes, Nebulizers -A saline jet nebulizer will stop dead in its tracks any respiratory transmitted disease!!!)
-So...question is: is the "pandemic of the week" you are worried about respiratory transmitted? If so, get a Nebulizer (use with CS and also Saline, as well as Iodine, Baking Soda, etc -different therapies, of course; not mixed) and a salt Pipe for everyone in your family; cheap, works, increases oxygenation, negative ions, improves ph, etc...oh yes, stops diseases.
- Herbal remedies such as Dr Schultz's Anti-Plague formula -equal parts of Cayenne, Onion, Garlic, Horseradish, Ginger in vinegar or even alcohol tincture: awesome stuff -especially if you can blend it back to where it is palatable as Salsa. ...but it is the same idea as US SF troops carrying Cayenne, and Spetznatz carrying curry -the better (and safer) to eat rats, lizards, etc with.

-Basically, comes down to this; if a major Pandemic hits, those helped by the standard medical system will be a tiny fraction of the population anyway. -Why not do all you can to take care of your own health, and plan on being able to be healthy, and be a help to others, instead of a burden on society as a whole?
-All diseases are affected by Oxygen levels, Ph, etc. Control those fields -do what Antoine Beauchamp stated was the basis of health vs disease - the terrain is the issue -not the particular pleo-morphing microbes as his opponent, the phony Pasteur contended for -and at the end of his miserable life, Pasteur allegedly admitted that his viewpoint was a lie -that disease is caused by multitudes of different microbes and thus requires multitudes of different drugs.

You all need to think for yourselves. Study for yourselves. Your health is your responsibility, and no one else's. If you have not looked into these therapies, you owe it to yourself and to your families to do so.

I am not taking time to post this for my own benefit. I am doing it for those who are willing to listen: study alternative therapies yourselves: some are used by standard allopathic medical system in emergencies...until they can stabilize you enough to use expensive drugs...Sodium Bicarbonate IV, Colloidal Silver for Vanomycin Resistant Enterococci, (VRE), grounding or Earthing patients while on operating tables...
I am not going to argue semantics, or answer cavils with those who want to do the drugs, get the vaccines, go to the FEMA Camps etc b/c they trust Big Brother etc. We already covered that; you can spin your cylinder and hope to hear the click of the hammer...if there is even one empty chamber. 
In our own way, we all will; where we decide to live, what we plan to eat, how we plan to take care of our health. Time will tell who listened, used their own brain, studied, researched, made changes needed, and turns out was right and lives, and who was wrong...nuff said.


----------



## swjohnsey

The West video was hilarious! If you look closely you can see the JDAM coming in on the military video. No JDAM coming in on the West video. Do you think the government had someone start the place on fire 20 minutes before the strike just to get firefighter involved?


----------



## FrankW

Back on topic:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/alabama-mystery-illness-coincidence/story?id=19236893


----------



## UncleJoe

*IT'S AIRBORNE: Human Transmission of Deadly H7N9 Virus Now Confirmed*

The Sun China Morning Post is reporting that researches have confirmed that, not only can the virus be transmitted from one human to another, but it has gone airborne.

The H7N9 bird flu virus can be transmitted not only through close contact but by airborne exposure, a team at the University of Hong Kong found after extensive laboratory experiments.

Though the virus appears to have been brought under control recently, the researchers urged the Hong Kong authorities to maintain strict surveillance, which should include not only poultry but humans and pigs.

&#8230;

In the study, to be published today in the journal Science, ferrets were used to evaluate the infectivity of H7N9. It was found the virus could spread through the air, from one cage to another, albeit less efficiently.

Inoculated ferrets were infected before the appearance of most clinical symptoms. This means there may be more cases than have been detected or reported.

"People may be transmitting the virus before they even know that they've got it," Zhu said.

SCMP via Zero Hedge

It's important to note that the Chinese government has never been very straight forward about statistics, especially if they involve negative perceptions of their country, so in all likelihood the H7N9 virus has infected countless others.

Though it's been called one of the most lethal flu viruses in history by WHO, Chinese scientists have downplayed the threat by claiming the effects are "mild," and the U.S. government has up until now made no decision on whether to move forward with a vaccine for this particular strain. Earlier reports indicate that the virus is resistant to Tamiflu, a drug commonly used to treat most flu symptoms.

H7N9 is reportedly now under control in China, but we know for a fact that the virus jumped to Taiwan in April, and it may have spread elsewhere. Given that research shows the virus can spread through the air before symptoms appear, it's certainly possibly that an outbreak is in its preliminary phase right now.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-ne...n-of-deadly-h7n9-virus-now-confirmed_05232013


----------



## k0xxx

Just saw this today. Always something new waiting in the wings.

New virus called 'threat to the entire world'


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## stayingthegame

Help the sky is falling !!!!!!
the one I am worried about is the one in Saudi Arabia. they call it mers for middle east respiratory s???. yhey say it acts like the cold virus and has an incubation period of 12 plus days. it has killed 24 of the 44 who have had it.


----------



## k0xxx

stayingthegame said:


> Help the sky is falling !!!!!!
> the one I am worried about is the one in Saudi Arabia. they call it mers for middle east respiratory s???. yhey say it acts like the cold virus and has an incubation period of 12 plus days. it has killed 24 of the 44 who have had it.


Uh... this is the one you are talking about....


----------



## Sybil6

I hate to admit I'm excited, though anxious. H7N9 is threat, but I think MERS-CoV is a little more threatening. Middle East Respiratory Syndrome - Coronavirus is already airborne - from my sources. Panicking is not the reasonable thing to do. As my friend, and my partner in this has advised me, avoid airports, fresh air indoors, stay clean, and when the viruses near home, don viral-filtering masks in public. He also recommends petroleum jelly swabbed up your noses with a cotton swab.  it will help filter naturally. Have fun, friends, and stay safe. I have a feeling, the end is near.


----------



## FrankW

I have a must do trip in 1 weeks to Europe.
Will be inside an Airplane for long time.

May bring a face mask if i sleep.
Otherwise try to breathe only thru nose ( nose filters quite a bit )

HSV seems to be on slow burn so far.
I used to be famous for never getting sick but I am not getting any younger.

Likely it will turn out to be nothing as so far all candidates have fizzled.
but if it sticks around on slow burn it can mutate into a more virulent form.

PS: No need to don masks outdoors even in the biggest pandemic, viruses die very quickly when exposed to sunshine. And if they are in an aerosol they will also dry out to the point where their attachment points denature,. That process starts as soon as they are sneezed out.
Indoors they will have a chance to be inhaled, outdoors not very likely.


----------



## -prepper-

BlueZ said:


> I have a must do trip in 1 weeks to Europe.
> Will be inside an Airplane for long time.
> 
> May bring a face mask if i sleep.
> Otherwise try to breathe only thru nose ( nose filters quite a bit )
> 
> HSV seems to be on slow burn so far.
> I used to be famous for never getting sick but I am not getting any younger.
> 
> Likely it will turn out to be nothing as so far all candidates have fizzled.
> but if it sticks around on slow burn it can mutate into a more virulent form.
> 
> PS: No need to don masks outdoors even in the biggest pandemic, viruses die very quickly when exposed to sunshine. And if they are in an aerosol they will also dry out to the point where their attachment points denature,. That process starts as soon as they are sneezed out.
> Indoors they will have a chance to be inhaled, outdoors not very likely.


Where are you going ?


----------



## -prepper-

Sybil6 said:


> Have fun, friends, and stay safe. I have a feeling, the end is near.


I raise my glass of Emergen-c to that !!!!!


----------



## FrankW

Now there's a fatality in italy.
if this goes down now is not a good time to travel.
In Europe I will be cut off from my guns and food preps.

I might take 2 tubes of silver with me just in case.


----------



## faithmarie

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/06/03/group-plans-million-muslim-march-on-dc-for-9-11-74278


----------



## spregan

I haven't read all the posts, so pardon me if I repeat someone.

Viruses have killed more people than anything else. From the common cold to , technically, cancer.
Having been in healthcare for 24 years now, the only advice I can give is, stay strong. Physically and mentally. The only thing that can fight a virus is a strong immune system and strong body. Studies show staying positive also helps fight sickness. I know, I know sounds new agey, but I've seen it work.
In the end, like a supernova shock wave coming at us, there's not much we can do about all the viruses out there.


----------



## jeremiyah

Look at info on Salt Pipes aka Salt Inhalers.
There is a post on them. Saline will sterilize the entire breathing system, mouth, throat, esophagus, nasal passages, nostrils in ten minutes.
"A Saline Jet Nebulizer will stop dead in its tracks ANY respiratory transmitted disease." -third time I have made that statement with no trolls or Trad/meds bitching about it...third time's a charm)


----------



## faithmarie

A friend sent this to me

Written by: Anna Badalian
About one in 20 hospitalized patients will develop an infection. Based on the new Consumer Report of only 544 hospital who have data for surgical-site infections, only 82 reported zero infections. This was just in 14 states that required public reporting from hospitals. On average, 290,000 sugical-site infections occur each year in our nation's hospitals causing patients more complications and pain.
That's 462 hospitals in 14 states that reported surgical-site infections in their hospitalized patients - because they were required to.
"Dirty instruments, improperly sterilized catheters or needles, and the contaminated hands of doctors, nurses, or other health-care workers are common causes." The Consumer Report rated hospitals on the infections that would develop after their patients underwent serious surgery and what they found was that most of the infections were being caused by central-line catheters in intensive care units meant to deliver drugs and nutrients. In many other cases, the infection even occurred during surgery. Inflicting the bloodstream with serious infections results in life-altering complications that never had to occur in the first place.
Central-line catheter infections are extremely dangerous. It has been reported that they kill up to 16,250 patients a year. This, however, is completely preventable. No hospital should have to inflict bloodstream infections on their hospitalized patients who are trying to recover. Patients undergo serious operations and have to fight off even more serious diseases, so why aren't hospitals more cautious with their tools and instruments? The public should be aware of the possibility that hospitals might not be following adequate safety measures, and this could be a leading cause of their injuries and complications. Many of the infections that patients suffer from are life altering - an added worry of new infections that could be prevented should never occur, let alone change their life.
Johns Hopkins Hospital had less than half the rate of infections than the national benchmark. Although not certain, maybe Dr. Pronovost at Johns Hopkins Medicine had something to do with that considering he developed an infection-prevention checklist designed to eliminate almost all hospital infections. In one study, 60% of hospitals that used his designed checklist eliminated all central-line infections in their intensive-care units for at least a year. Later it was shown that those hospitals saw a 10% drop in their overall death rates. This kind of intiative is the best way to ensure that hospitals will move in the right direction toward safer places to treat patients.
Patients and the general public have a right to know of the risks and complications that could occur from a hospital's negligence. Always make sure that the hospital staff is using sterile instruments and that they have washed their hands before touching you. It is shocking how quickly an infection can pass from one person to the next so every precaution should be taken. If your hospital is using any catheters or other tubes, ask everyday whether they can be removed or not. To truly stay clear of all infections however, you can always ask if your hospital uses a checklist for inserting and maintaining central lines and how they monitor those lines.
Remember, it is always better to be safe. Don't settle for unclear instructions or vague answers. It is your body and your right to know. The Federal government recently provided funding of $218 million dollars to 26 hospital groups nationwide to improve the safety of hospitals and in addition, provided up to $500 million to various programs to help Medicare patients in their process of going from the hospital to their homes. These initiatives are meant to assist hospitals in making the right safety choices. They know their duty and should not be careless when it comes to simple measures that need to be taken.
Sometimes, the simple precautions can prevent the deadliest of infections.


----------



## drfacefixer

What you should get out of that article is that central lines do have risk and should be avoided if possible. What it failed to say is that most patients have central lines placed when they are near deaths door and require drastic intervention from sickness or trauma. One of the moat common reasons they are used is to treat septic shock from a yet unknown origin. Go figure. The person is almost comatose from an infection, you place a line to monitor thier volemic state and cardiac function to keep them alive long enough to try to identify the source of infections .then you treat with broad spectrum antibiotics empirically and sometimes the outcome is....the central line becomes infected because thier immune system is just shot at that point. Majority of cases where they are needed, you wouldnt need it if you were well enough to be coherent. There are better things to worry about, but its good to be aware of.


----------



## dingogirl

jeremiyah said:


> Look at info on Salt Pipes aka Salt Inhalers.
> There is a post on them. Saline will sterilize the entire breathing system, mouth, throat, esophagus, nasal passages, nostrils in ten minutes.
> "A Saline Jet Nebulizer will stop dead in its tracks ANY respiratory transmitted disease." -third time I have made that statement with no trolls or Trad/meds bitching about it...third time's a charm)


I used to have a salt pipe that Dr. Oz talked about, but I didn't feel thought it did all that it said it does. I felt like I got the same effect steaming my face (opening airway and promoting drainage). I moved on to hypertonic saline nebulizers because there is actual research proving it and It made a world of difference over the pipe. It definitely thins out mucous,congestion, and draws out moisture from swollen tissues making it less irritated and easier to breathe. It doesn't however sterilize. The salinity of the body is 0.9% NaCl naturally. Hypertonic saline is 3%. You selectively grow staph on manitol agar plates with 9% to kill other bacteria and only allow this a few other halophiles to grow. The saline is helpful in clearing the congestion and aiding the symptoms but thats about all. By chance, do you have any good research on the salt pipes. I still have mine, but ofcourse i would need to reorder new salts. The website says it lasts 5 years, but then when you get it, it tells you the salts need to be changed every 6 months. whoops. fell for another one.


----------



## faithmarie




----------



## drfacefixer

faithmarie said:


> Video Link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about some science Instead of so me wannabe tosh.o commentary.


----------



## Gians

Ran across this update on how the H7N9 is doing in China. CDC is keeping an eye on it and testing what works against it. I imagine one of these winters mother nature will thin the herd again.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/us-birdflu-epidemic-idUSBRE99N1HF20131024
We got our flu shots a few weeks back, it covers some other strains.


----------



## Sybil6

http://m.scmp.com/news/china/article/1349382/fourth-case-h7n9-bird-flu-confirmed-china-3-weeks

H7N9 is back with three more infections just as winter hits. The small child is expected to live but out of 138 infections, 45 have died. Seeing as it's winter time and Christmas vacation is coming up, I'm a little paranoid about the infection traveling farther into China's middle and overseas.


----------



## tsrwivey

jeremiyah said:


> Look at info on Salt Pipes aka Salt Inhalers.
> There is a post on them. Saline will sterilize the entire breathing system, mouth, throat, esophagus, nasal passages, nostrils in ten minutes.
> "A Saline Jet Nebulizer will stop dead in its tracks ANY respiratory transmitted disease." -third time I have made that statement with no trolls or Trad/meds bitching about it...third time's a charm)


I wish! Unfortunately, nothing kills everything, & certainly not saline. We do use saline, both normal & hypertonic, a lot with pediatric patients with chronic breathing problems. It's both safe & effective & I will use it with my own kids without hesitation. It will work quickly to ease breathing in most common illnesses & will thin out the mucus quickly so that it can be expelled easily. I keep a large stash of saline along with two nebulizers & recommend everyone do the same. It is not, however, a magic bullet.

Use STERILE saline, the last thing you need to do to someone already sick is to blow another microorganism down into their lungs.

Learn to perform CPT (chest physiotherapy) & postural drainage. Both require nothing more than your hands & really do help.


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## goshengirl

tsrwivey said:


> Learn to perform CPT (chest physiotherapy) & postural drainage. Both require nothing more than your hands & really do help.


Where would someone go to learn those things?


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## tsrwivey

goshengirl said:


> Where would someone go to learn those things?


This explains it pretty well in plain English & looks like it will print nicely. http://www.childrensmn.org/Manuals/PFS/ChildDev/187864.pdf


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## goshengirl

tsrwivey said:


> This explains it pretty well in plain English & looks like it will print nicely. http://www.childrensmn.org/Manuals/PFS/ChildDev/187864.pdf


Thanks! :kiss:


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## drfacefixer

tsrwivey said:


> This explains it pretty well in plain English & looks like it will print nicely. http://www.childrensmn.org/Manuals/PFS/ChildDev/187864.pdf


Great info! My daughter had a pneumonia that was advancing towards needing inpatient care a few years back. Being trained in anesthesia, I had the benefits of keeping her on a portable ICU monitor. Her oxygen saturations generally hovered around 94-95 because of the painful and irritation of deep inspirations. Working with her, to fully inflate and recruit, would bring her back up to a 98-99% saturation. The saline nebs helped her not feel like drainage was choking her. But one of the most interesting things, was that when she slept, she would sometimes switch positions on the couch so that her legs were elevated on the pillows and her head was low. She naturally put her self in a trendelenburg position for a right lower lobe pneumonia... it helped her breath and drain easier. Bottom line... if you're caring for little ones, resist the urge to constantly intervene. Sit back for a second and try to take in the entire picture. The clues to caring for a sick person include their entire environment not just the focus a few signs and symptoms of the disease process.


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## faithmarie

Disclaimer&#8230; I just found this interesting&#8230; it is not medical advice &#8230;


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## Meerkat

drfacefixer said:


> Great info! My daughter had a pneumonia that was advancing towards needing inpatient care a few years back. Being trained in anesthesia, I had the benefits of keeping her on a portable ICU monitor. Her oxygen saturations generally hovered around 94-95 because of the painful and irritation of deep inspirations. Working with her, to fully inflate and recruit, would bring her back up to a 98-99% saturation. The saline nebs helped her not feel like drainage was choking her. But one of the most interesting things, was that when she slept, she would sometimes switch positions on the couch so that her legs were elevated on the pillows and her head was low. She naturally put her self in a trendelenburg position for a right lower lobe pneumonia... it helped her breath and drain easier. Bottom line... if you're caring for little ones, resist the urge to constantly intervene. Sit back for a second and try to take in the entire picture. The clues to caring for a sick person include their entire environment not just the focus a few signs and symptoms of the disease process.


 Thanks. Good info.


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