# Camo pattern?



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Hypothetically if you were a member of a Mutual Aid Group. 

Hypothetically the World Rule of Law was nonexistent and the MAG was safe and secured at their Bug Out Location.

It would make sense that the MAG security wore similar clothing to make their quick ID practical. 

Hypothetically what would be a recommended camouflage pattern for the MAG security to use?


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## obg12 (Apr 9, 2016)

TheLazyL said:


> Hypothetically if you were a member of a Mutual Aid Group.
> 
> Hypothetically the World Rule of Law was nonexistent and the MAG was safe and secured at their Bug Out Location.
> 
> ...


Hypothetically it would depend on time of the year and the terrain


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

obg12 said:


> Hypothetically it would depend on time of the year and the terrain


Let's hypothetically assume a wooded area with little snow to no snow fall.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Around here multicam, marpat and realtree works great depending on local vegetation. In south ga where I hunt the old rhodesian camo works great but its hard to find. I like to stick with something none military and generally just go with a good mix of earthtones instead of camo. Atac is pretty cool and comes in browns or greens. Get a couple t shirts and try out the different stuff in your area and see what works best.


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

TheLazyL said:


> Hypothetically if you were a member of a Mutual Aid Group. Hypothetically the World Rule of Law was nonexistent and the MAG was safe and secured at their Bug Out Location. It would make sense that the MAG security wore similar clothing to make their quick ID practical. Hypothetically what would be a recommended camouflage pattern for the MAG security to use?


The bad guys would simply wear the same type of pattern....in my opinion "clothing ID" is not the greatest way to quickly identify the security people. Might work for a while, but all bad guys aren't as dumb as we'd like to think they are, eventually they'd catch on. The good ole "daily password" would be better, I think. :scratch


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Caribou...."The military uses uniforms AND daily passwords."

Yeah, I know.....I just don't like stuff that can be copied..


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Instead of a password use a daily #. If your #is 7 then the challenge would be 3 and the answer 4 which adds up to seven. Rotating numbers and addition and subtraction is hard to copy. Make sure you guys are decent at basic math before you open up on anyone .


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## obg12 (Apr 9, 2016)

TheLazyL said:


> Let's hypothetically assume a wooded area with little snow to no snow fall.


I might go with real tree then


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Here you go.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

As someone that has worn a uniform for a long time and will continue to do so. I'd go with two different sets of "uniforms" because that's really what you're talking about.

1. Every day clothing, Jeans, T-shirt, work boots maybe a hoodie, baseball cap and a pistol belt will allow you to maximize the life out of your clothing. Military Uniforms are Notorious for ripping easily. I mean hell Multi-cams come with a patch to cover up rips and holes for field use. 

Looking military may work against you depending on the situation. Wear what the people in your AOR wear to easily fit in. For most things I'd be concerned about looking to Tacticool and not fitting in with the locals situation depending.

2. Lets say that you need to go out and look outside of the land that your group is situated on. In this case I think their MIGHT be a benefit to wearing a Camo that will help you blend into your environment. Camouflage that works well is Multi-cam but that's also the Camo flavor of the month. So you'll find it being stupid expensive compared to other patterns. Depending on where you live the Marine MARPAT either the Desert or Woodland variety. 
Personally I feel like the Multi-cam Pattern looks a lot like the old school Woodland BDU. 

Something you could consider especially with Multi-cams is a "unit" patch which would be harder for someone to duplicate. If someone copying your camouflage pattern is a concern. 

~Cabo


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

How big of a group do you have where people don't know each other?


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## Pessimistic2 (Jan 26, 2017)

Terri9630...."How big of a group do you have where people don't know each other?"

Very good question! If the "group" is THAT big, it's TOO BIG, in my opinion.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I did not catch where he said they did not know each other, but I can assure you in the heat of battle under conditions not conducive to quick facial identification having something that screams "on my side" can save your butt or the butt of your comrade in arms. And sometimes saying "what's the password?" is met with BANG BANG BANG. Not saying these ideas are good or bad, just things to consider.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

TheLazyL said:


> Hypothetically if you were a member of a Mutual Aid Group.
> 
> Hypothetically the World Rule of Law was nonexistent and the MAG was safe and secured at their Bug Out Location.
> 
> ...


LazyL,

My first thought was "why the need to ID your own members"? Too many people to quickly ID or too quick on the trigger? A simple armband with your MAG patch should be enough for a quick ID and then (as others have mentioned) a special password (loved the number idea) to complete the challenge.

As for camo, I would go to a Ghillie suit for serious ventures / scouting trips into the woods. If the scouts are just walking about, then dark clothing is sufficient. If the scouts are surveying and perceive possible threats in the area, then the Ghillie suit would be appropriate. Defensive action (ambushes, tracking) would required the Ghillie suit to some extent. JMHO


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

I started watching airsoft youtubes. Airsoft firearms shoots a plastic BB. When you shoot someone they will know they are HIT! Teams wear all different types of clothing with a colored arm band to distinguish who is on which team. In the heat of close combat battle it isn't unusual to shoot a friendly. Torso is blocking view of the arm band, mind is conditioned to SHOOT! at the first sign of another person or if you hesitate and it's an enemy you die.

Watching a late night Zombie movie. Wall guards were authorized to shoot all Zombies on the outside of the wall. It has become second nature for them to do so. A wall guard saw the only survivor of a patrol they had sent out being chased by zombies. Wall guard didn't have a good angle and the survivor was in trouble. Wall guard jumped the wall and quickly worked his way out to the survivor to distract the Zombies. When the survivor was almost back to the wall guard shot the closest Zombies, turned and started back to the wall. The other wall guards heard shots, turn in that direction and shot the first head they saw, which belonged to the wall guard.

IMHO in both instants a common clothing/uniform could have help prevent friendly fire.

Thought of another instance. John Wayne in EL Dorado. Rancher was having problems with rustlers? Rancher posted his young son as a look out. Warm sunny day with nothing happening the son dozed off. JW came riding down the pass and his horse made a noise. Young Son jerked awake, startled by seeing someone (JW), stood up and let loose with a wild shot. JW was also startled by being shot at and return a shot to kill the young son.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

TheLazyL said:


> I started watching airsoft youtubes. Airsoft firearms shoots a plastic BB. When you shoot someone they will know they are HIT! Teams wear all different types of clothing with a colored arm band to distinguish who is on which team. In the heat of close combat battle it isn't unusual to shoot a friendly. Torso is blocking view of the arm band, mind is conditioned to SHOOT! at the first sign of another person or if you hesitate and it's an enemy you die.
> 
> Watching a late night Zombie movie. Wall guards were authorized to shoot all Zombies on the outside of the wall. It has become second nature for them to do so. A wall guard saw the only survivor of a patrol they had sent out being chased by zombies. Wall guard didn't have a good angle and the survivor was in trouble. Wall guard jumped the wall and quickly worked his way out to the survivor to distract the Zombies. When the survivor was almost back to the fence the wall guard shot the closest Zombies, turned and started back to the wall. The other wall guards heard shots, turn in that direction and shot the first head they saw, which belonged to the wall guard.
> 
> ...


I used to play with Paintball and it was not unknown to shoot a team member (trust me, paint balls do hurt). Arm bands can be difficult to spot quickly (typically worn on just one arm) but it would be just as difficult to spot a friend among a bunch of people wearing the similar colored camo / uniforms. Unexpected movement, from an unexpected location, can and does activate trigger fingers.

The real problem is not so much an identification issue as an issue in shoot / don't shoot training. Bad / non-existent training, fear and quick trigger fingers and all the uniforms in the world will not stop friendly fire incidents. Some people will shoot before they knew who was there. Fire discipline is the key.

(1) Zombie casualty failed to notify support troops he was going over the wall, (2) failed to call out on his return.

Rio Lobo. (1) Asleep on guard duty. (2) Fires without checking target. (3) Fires from exposed position. Ranch uniform would not have helped, since young rancher fired before identifying target and JW would not have recognized rancher uniform, so would have returned fire anyway. 
JMHO


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I would think if you were hypothetically going this route you would want a pattern that isn't as common as say mossy oak, real tree or multicam but a little more obscure like Predator or ASAT. Put everyone in ghillie suits. Having said that, camo is way over rated. A dull dirty brown if your motionless can be darn hard to see. I've bow killed a lot of deer at several yards wearing nothing more than canvas Carhartts and face paint.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Thank you for all of the input.

Narrowed it down to:

1. Flecktarn
2. Tigerstripe

Both are not common in the world the hypothetical MAG would survive in.
Flecktarn is less expensive because of military surplus availability.

Final vote isn't in but looking like Flecktarn maybe the winner because of cost.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Vietnam tigers work well in north Ga.


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## Jim1590 (Jul 11, 2012)

tmttactical said:


> I used to play with Paintball and it was not unknown to shoot a team member (trust me, paint balls do hurt). Arm bands can be difficult to spot quickly (typically worn on just one arm) but it would be just as difficult to spot a friend among a bunch of people wearing the similar colored camo / uniforms. Unexpected movement, from an unexpected location, can and does activate trigger fingers.


+1 on this one. I have not played in about a year, but I typically just play as a walk on at a local field. The arm bands are decent IF you are playing with people that know what they are doing (fire discipline) and know what they are looking for.

More than once, I manage to flank along the tape line and got shot at by my own team thinking I was in the open and opposing. Um I am in the open because I am taking cover behind the bunker while advancing!

Course this goes both ways. 1 game, I got 2 barrel tags (basically stabbed them in the back) within 30 seconds because they did not know how to pay attention to their environment. 1 of them probably still has not cleaned their shorts out.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

Another thing to consider, not looking the same, if every one is really the same it may suggest larger numbers in a group to others, of course you may want that. Some special ops mix it up to blend in locally and to not look so organized but they have good training and communications too


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

buy tan clothing then tie-dye in appropriate colors. Unique, cheap, and you blend in just as well if not better with the environment. Actual camo might be considered an alien uniform and could create issues with other forces.....just pick tie dye colors your 3 year old would get on his clothes playing outside!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

You have two roofing Contractors give you quotes on repairing your roof. You're retiring soon, you don't want to worry about reroofing again and you want the job done right! Contractor 1's quote is the cheaper of the two.

*Contractor 1*

Arrived in a rusted out truck that looks like it's on its last trip.
Dirty T-shirt that almost covers his belly.
Handwriting on the quote is hard to decipher. 
No web site.

*Contractor 1*

Arrived is a new looking freshly washed truck.
Clean uniform.
Quote is computer generated and printed.
Professional Web site.

Who would you award the job to?

Two MAGs have offered you membership.

*MAG 1*

Firearms. If you gotten bring them.
Clothing requirements is what ever you bring or will customize.
Rules & Regulations are links, typed or hand written notes copied too many times.
Whoever wants to lead the informal meets can.

*MAG 2*

Firearms and calibers requirements are listed.
Standardize professional uniforms are required for members in security roles.
Rules & Regulations are printed in a professional manner clearly and precisely.
Meetings are lead by the elected officers.

Which MAG would you join?

WWROL. TEOTWAWKI.

Enough time has elapsed that a lot of the Survivors have banded together and have their territories staked out and defended.

Renegades have picked the free territories clean and are almost of supplies. Their scouts have been watching MAG 1 and MAG 2 described above. Which MAG appears to be the softer target?


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Hypothetically if you were a member of a Mutual Aid Group.
> 
> Hypothetically the World Rule of Law was nonexistent and the MAG was safe and secured at their Bug Out Location.
> 
> ...


This happens to be a subject I am fairly familiar with.
Everything is a balance between cost and effectiveness.

I could write until my fingers bleed to show all the different available patterns but there are some great you tube vids

There is a guy I know he has 2 channels on youtube (UW Gear and Alpha Charlie Concepts) does tons of Camoflgae pattern demos in them
Here is one pattern reviewed





Here is ATACS-FG (FG= foliage green the summer kit)






Also here is the UW Gear channel guy reviewing a interesting new pattern:






Also:






What do I use.. I looked at my BOLs AO and its vegetation (mid Virginian Appalachia)

For summer ATACS FG.
For winter West German Army winter camo
For Fall Waffen SS Fall pattern, Flecktarn and ATACS- AU 
For Spring; Waffen SS summer pattern and ATACS AU (in early spring)
Night Ops: Army ACU, this unpopular grey pattern is a very efective at night with NVGs much better than MARPAT or the new ARPAT ("Scorpion"/MultiCam) pattern.

I also have spares in the form of BDU (works well here in fall)

Brent also has some great camoflage reviews.. this one is of the german WW2 ones which got me to buy that Russian gear (I am not suggesting doing a reenactment gear assembly like showns in this vid.. just pay attention to the patterns)






This is a Russian Light Infantry style Suit I bought that is in those exact effective Waffen SS patterns:=.. they may be old school but still compare very well.. its just folks have been a bit "scared" to use 'em I think.

https://grey-shop.ru/Special-suits/Camouflage-suits/Partizan-M

If you have a generous budget the Kryptek are pretty effective but expensive and are offered in different patterns for season + location.
Prescott Badlands I also wish I had..

But when I comes down to it I buy a combination of what works and whats affordable.

Also dont forget to camo your face!
These guys have great accessories that are camoed that are affordable and in any pattern.
Also a good way to get familiar with what patterns are out there3 for you:

http://shop.0241tactical.com/

Spend some time checking out ALL the vids before you commit monies to what you get for you and yours.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

PS: Dont forget to camo your hands and face.


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## RedBeard (May 8, 2017)

Best camo on the planet is a ghillie suit, all though not practical for what your asking. No matter the uniform it can be stolen and worn by the enemy. It would be better to know where your people are and make it known among the group you will only be asked to identify yourself once.


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