# ECONOMIC COLLAPSE and how to Prepare and Survive it.



## PatriotSurvivalist

* REDUCE YOUR DEBT: Reducing ones debt to as close to zero as possible is essential. That may involve selling off some of your real estate investment, moving to a smaller home, refinancing your home mortgage to a 15-year loan, and eliminating your credit cards. Stop paying interest.

* Do not be dependent on the government for your well-being. Try an be as independents and self reliant as possible for your income.

* Take control of your own finances. Read many alternate sources of information. Do your homework. Be careful to understand what is going on. Avoid states of denial. Become as independent as possible.

* Make yourself save as much as you can. Most people live above their means. Learn to live below your means. If you save a minimum of 10% per month, you can grow your wealth very safely. Some can save 20%-25%.

* Diversify your investments, include investing in Swiss money instruments,gold, different currencies.

* Avoid weak financial institutions. Get out of harm's way. Many banks, brokerage house, S& Ls and insurance companies are tottering on the brink of disaster or close to it in the event of a market downturn. And in spite of the perception to the contrary, there is no substantive insurance safety net under these institutions.

* Avoid popular investment markets. There are few goof opportunities for conservative investors. Stocks are overvalued. If you own stocks have stops in place. Corporate bonds are vulnerable and will drop as U.S. interest rates rise. Be very selective in investment real estate. Commodities are out of favor and at bargain prices. All things are cyclical and go from being under valued to over valued.

* Find investment safe havens. The three best and most conservative investments to put your money into over the next few years are gold and silver, foreign government bond funds, and U.S Treasury bill money market funds. Don't announce to the world what you are doing; keep a low profile.

* Legally bulletproof your business and personal matters. America is the most litigious country in the world, with 700,000 lawyers and 187 million new civil lawsuits per year. Every doctor, professional business person or business owner has a nightmare about being sued into ruin.

* Change your mindset about the news, about investments and about your financial security. To survive the coming hard times, you must change the way you do things, the way you think, and the way you invest. You must read between the lines in today's news reports ... find alternative investments and financial institutions ...and plan for the future.

* Purchase a one-year food supply and have a large water source. Own tangible assets or commodities that can be bartered or traded.

* Buy real estate in a small town or rural community that can serve as a retreat or place of refuge.

You can find this and much more at my website:

http://www.ultimatesurvivalsupplies.com​


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## Ron22

This is all good advice and under normal circumstances would definitley be the way to go. However I'm preparing really, really late  I had planned on being debt free by April. 

With my concerns about inflation, possibly even hyper-inflation after the FED's latest anouncement on "Quanitative Easing", I've decided to put some money towards catching up on preps first. Especially some of the items I believe are likely to rise steeply in price. I also put money into a $100 face value bag of pre-1964 US silver coins. I don't think silvers going to get any less and this was money that would have been slotted for savings anyway. I wish I could do more but I have to make sure I'm debt free when I retire the end of next year. 

Essentially I re-arranged my budget so that I get some preps done first. A year from now I'll still be at roughly the same place financially. 

In the long run, I think I'm going to come out ahead and I'll sleep better knowing I'm better prepared


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## thunderdan19

The number of grammatic and spelling errors in the OP doesn't exactly breed confidence for me here. This was not copied out of a major magazine or reputable source, so to me it has the same value as any other personal post. If that's a self promoting sales link at the bottom, then even less value to me. Just sayin'.

That being said. I agree with _some_ of what's recommended here. It's always better in a stable economy to have less debt. However, as far as getting out of debt now, I think a better idea would be to buy tangibles now, since the dollar seems destined to drop in the near future. And, I can assure you that, should TSHTF look imminent, I will buy up whatever I can that may be of practical use (hopefully prior to the stores being looted anyway) and not worry about my level of debt. If the dollar is going to be worthless, than, by all means, keep as many IOUs from me as you want. I'll take durable food, ammo and tools please.

What good will that IOU be should the system/banks holding the debt collapse? Who's gonna enforce foreclosure when the country is burning? And who's gonna garnish wages when nobody is working for money? Who's gonna give you a significant amount of food, water, or useful items for a shiny coin (precious metal)?

I say that to say this: I'm actually (for the first time) seriously considering pulling all my investments and spending that money on food, ammo and tools. A market crash will destroy all value of those anyway. And screw the lawyers. In TEOTWAWKI, they die first...


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## Tirediron

thunderdan19 said:


> The number of grammatic and spelling errors in the OP doesn't exactly breed confidence for me here. This was not copied out of a major magazine or reputable source, so to me it has the same value as any other personal post. If that's a self promoting sales link at the bottom, then even less value to me. Just sayin'.
> 
> That being said. I agree with _some_ of what's recommended here. It's always better in a stable economy to have less debt. However, as far as getting out of debt now, I think a better idea would be to buy tangibles now, since the dollar seems destined to drop in the near future. And, I can assure you that, should TSHTF look imminent, I will buy up whatever I can that may be of practical use (hopefully prior to the stores being looted anyway) and not worry about my level of debt. If the dollar is going to be worthless, than, by all means, keep as many IOUs from me as you want. I'll take durable food, ammo and tools please.
> 
> What good will that IOU be should the system/banks holding the debt collapse? Who's gonna enforce foreclosure when the country is burning? And who's gonna garnish wages when nobody is working for money? Who's gonna give you a significant amount of food, water, or useful items for a shiny coin (precious metal)?
> 
> I say that to say this: I'm actually (for the first time) seriously considering pulling all my investments and spending that money on food, ammo and tools. A market crash will destroy all value of those anyway. And screw the lawyers. In TEOTWAWKI, they die first...


Yours makes a lot more sense get tangible good first , worry about banks and what you might owe them second , without going compleetly off of the deep end of course :beercheer: Investing cash in hand right now in anything but tangibles is scary :gaah:


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## Herbalpagan

normally, getting out of debt is the best thing, but at this point, whether your morgage banker or anyone who owns the debt will be around in 20 years is a major crap shoot. 
I advocate continuing paying the debt at normal levels and putting any extra into tangibles (as several have mentioned above).
You will ALWAYS need food and supplies, and these are what it going up in price right now. Unemployment is still possible, especially if the economy fails, and if you have food this is one burden off. Emergencies will still happen, food will be imperative in a storm or epidemic. If a crash happens, again, food will be of major importance due to supply disruptions.
Fuel is also a major item to consider stocking up on.


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## Ron22

Exactly  Happy people don't think I'm completely off my rocker here 

I've been hitting debt reduction really hard lately so I have quite a bit of discretionary income right now. The only debt I have left to pay is my truck payment and one credit card.

I ordered another $100 bag of junk silver today. I'm converting as much cash to silver as I can right now. The plan now is to be debt-free in July vice April. I'll put that money into preps and silver both of which I expect to be a lot more expensive in the very near future. Given the short time frame, before I still pay everything off, I expect to actually come out ahead financially. 

If we were to go into hyperinflation before that (hopefully not), then I'll likely not worry about the credit card (unsecured debt) until later and focus on paying off my truck next, along with additional preps. Under that set of circumstances the credit card can wait until last.


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## GroovyMike

Good heavens Ron with what you paid for those two $100 face value bags, you could probably be completely out of debt!

There is a place for PMs but they rank way way down on the list after food, meds, and other tangibles. My advice is to square yourself away with what you actually need to survive (food, medicine, defense, clothing, tools), and get out of debt completely, THEN put you funds into silver etc.

Silver is going up, so this is a great time to SELL silver and realize the gain by putting teh currency into debt reduction.


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## The_Blob

if you're _truly_ worried about 'hyperinflation', then precious metals are definitely the way to go... with gold being so high right now the only way to even make it investment worthy is to buy it & then *pray* for hyperinflation (if your $2000 gold investment becomes worth $200,000 due to H-I, you can pay off your house and other bills easily... well, most of us could  )

I personally would rather spend my energy promoting positive solutions as opposed to 'just' proactively preparing, but there are still so many ostriches out there with their collective heads in the sand


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## Ron22

Actually, I am concerned about hyper-inflation. The silver is my hedge against that so at least I'll have something. What I spent on silver would not have gotten me out of debt. I decided to buy the silver and simultaneously work on preps. I believe I would have paid more in the long run. What I save in interest by paying everything off by April instead of July would have been more than offset by the increase in the price of silver. If I'm wrong, the difference is only a few hundred dollars. If I'm not wrong then I come out ahead.... potentially WAY ahead. We're going to have significant inflation no matter what. QE2 GUARANTEES that I believe.

I've done as much as I can ordering preps online and I have my mom out stocking up on food. I'm in Afghanistan so I can only do so much. I'll be getting 2 weeks R&R the end of next month. I'm hoping prices will not have gone up to much by then so I can fill in preps while I'm home.

I start my retirement a couple of months after I get back. In a lot of ways I'm in better shape than most. Unless there is a complete breakdown, I at least should still get my military retirement.


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## Tirediron

In a hyperinflation situation, I think prepps come first then maybe debt service
According to the gold / silver split somebody is expecting gold to be majic some time in the near future or it is just monkey see monkey do.


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## SurviveNthrive

If it's hyperinflation, we'd be foolish to have paid off our debt and better off with goods, some of which we can sell and easily pay off our debt...the proverbial wheel barrow full of currency for a loaf of bread makes buying a bag of flour sound like a good idea.

In hyperinflation, it'd be wonderful to have gold and silver, fantastic. It'd have some real spending power.


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## gypsysue

SurviveNthrive said:


> If it's hyperinflation, we'd be foolish to have paid off our debt and better off with goods, some of which we can sell and easily pay off our debt...the proverbial wheel barrow full of currency for a loaf of bread makes buying a bag of flour sound like a good idea.
> 
> In hyperinflation, it'd be wonderful to have gold and silver, fantastic. It'd have some real spending power.


Yup. :2thumb:


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## Ezmerelda

In our situation, it was either buy precious metals, or buy food, medicines and water. 

Since you can't eat silver, and gold does nothing for certain chronic medical conditions, we decided to buy food, medicines and water.

Each situation is different and you should do what's best for your family.


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## GroovyMike

Ron22 said:


> Actually, I am concerned about hyper-inflation. The silver is my hedge against that so at least I'll have something. What I spent on silver would not have gotten me out of debt. I decided to buy the silver and simultaneously work on preps. I believe I would have paid more in the long run. What I save in interest by paying everything off by April instead of July would have been more than offset by the increase in the price of silver. If I'm wrong, the difference is only a few hundred dollars. If I'm not wrong then I come out ahead.... potentially WAY ahead. We're going to have significant inflation no matter what. QE2 GUARANTEES that I believe.
> 
> I've done as much as I can ordering preps online and I have my mom out stocking up on food. I'm in Afghanistan so I can only do so much. I'll be getting 2 weeks R&R the end of next month. I'm hoping prices will not have gone up to much by then so I can fill in preps while I'm home.
> 
> I start my retirement a couple of months after I get back. In a lot of ways I'm in better shape than most. Unless there is a complete breakdown, I at least should still get my military retirement.


Sounds like you have planned for either scenario. You are going to be just fine. Thank you for your service.


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## mosquitomountainman

SurviveNthrive said:


> If it's hyperinflation, we'd be foolish to have paid off our debt and better off with goods, some of which we can sell and easily pay off our debt...the proverbial wheel barrow full of currency for a loaf of bread makes buying a bag of flour sound like a good idea.
> 
> In hyperinflation, it'd be wonderful to have gold and silver, fantastic. It'd have some real spending power.


If you have a large stash of supplies selling it to pay debts would work and might be a good idea. The problem is that if you sell something you're going to have to replace later the cost of replacing it will be very expensive. The problem with hyperinflation is that there's always a lag time where your wages haven't quite caught up. You'll be saddled with your normal debts, trying to keep up with them while the prices of everything else will be climbing. Remember when the price of gasoline shot up and people had to make the decision whether to buy gasoline to get to work and keep their job and get behind on their house payment (and lose the house), or lose the job and the house? That's just a small example of hyperinflation. Now instead of just gasoline shooting up in price think of what it would be like if everything, food, fuel (to power your car and heat and light your house), clothes, vehicle prices and/or repairs, entertainment, TAXES ... everything was rapidly increasing. In the meantime your wages were also increasing but at a lower rate. Money will be very tight.

If in January you sell off a bag of wheat at twice the amount you paid for it but have to replace it a year later at ten times that amount have you saved or made anything off the transaction?

A little inflation can be a good thing as the value of your assets increases over time and your wages generally keep pace with inflation. Hyperinflation is very scary and damaging.

Debt is seldom a good thing. With debt, and taxes your wages are spent before you get them. That means you have less to work with in the present and the future.

Debt is like having a table set with piles of food but then the people you owe the money to begin to arrive they get served first. They begin to fill their plates. First is the government taking their 50 % share of food for the taxes you owe. Next is your mortgage holder taking his 30 percent. Next in line are the representatives from the credit card companies you owe money to taking their percentage of your food. (Remember, after the government and your mortgage lender you've already lost close to 80 percent of the food on the table!). Now figure in the people coming to eat at your table who loaned you money for the furniture, the boat, the four-wheeler or motorcyle, big screen television, etc.

After they are all done taking your food you get what's left to pay for gasoline to get to work, insurance on your home, car and health, utility companies that supply the electricity and/or gas to your home. Now sit back and look at what's left. You'll be lucky to have a few slices of bread and some stale cheese because everyone else got first choice and they took the best for themselves. Can you understand why you're so frustrated with the money situation in life?

Just remember also that when the government runs up it's own debt they're having the same problem. The only thing is that they'll get "their" money from YOU. They get first choice of your wages so the more they spend the more they take and they're taking it from you.

That's what debt is like. Now naturally any analogy will have flaws but can you see what happens when you borrow money and why you have so little left for yourselves?

Now add in hyper inflation. In this case your "debt" may remain static IF your rates are fixed - with a variable rate your interest rate will also increase along with inflation - and except for taxes which are usually indexed in various ways both obvious and obscure (sales taxes are a percentage, income taxes are also except in hyperinflation ... as your wages increase to keep pace they also put you in a higher tax bracket). So you MIGHT come out ahead debt wise except for the fact that everything else you buy like food, insurance, fuel, etc are increasing faster than your wages. In some cases much faster than your wages.

Your property will increase in value as inflation increases. That may be a good thing. It may not. Many people think, "great, I can sell at a profit!" But you're going to need a place to live and you'll just have to buy something else at the new inflated rate. If you're smart and downsize you might be able to get something to fix up and still end up with a home that's paid for so it's something to consider. Don't forget though that most people aren't going to have money to invest in a home as they'll be struggling just to stay afloat. An addition, no bank is going to make a fixed rate loan during times of high inflation.

Just remember, your taxes will also increase along with your property value. Since the government will be paying more for everything from wages and benefits to materials for infrastructure repairs and building they may have to also increase the mil levy on your property to keep up. Add that increase to the other increased costs in your life plus the mortgage payment and life ain't going to be rosy.

If your property is paid for you'll have an extra 30 percent of available funds to begin with. How many here would like to have 30 percent more available income right now?

If all of your credit cards and other debt was paid off how much more would you have available out of your next paycheck?

Again, there's a world of difference between a little inflation and hyperinflation. In pre-WW2 Germany workers were often paid at their lunch break and when they got off work for the day because the price of bread was going up so rapidly that the prices increased by the hour.

A little inflation is good. Hyperinflation benefits no one.

If you're loaded with money some types of debt make sense. If you're struggling however, being debt free is in most cases a very good thing.


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## Ron22

Thanks Mike!

Many good points here from everyone and lots of good advice. I'm fortunate in some ways. There are some inherent risks in being in Afghanistan. No point in trying to say otherwise. However, I do expect to make it back. 

Hyperinflation or not, won't affect my budget. I eat in the dining facility when I'm on base or MRE's if we're on a mission. I have no vehicle here. I live in barracks, sometimes in a tent. No matter what happens, I will be debt free when I return. The money I'm spending now on preps is coming out of money that I would have saved by the end of the deployment.

I have already made many preps since the realization hit me that there might not be much time. Although many of the preps I made for Y2K I no longer have (food was long since eaten), I do still have some of those, mainly in the form of camping equipment and things like cast iron cookware, canning equipment, meat grinder, grain grinder, first aid equipment, tools, etc... My survival library is still intact and stored with the rest of my books. When I took stock of my situation, I was not as bad off as I first thought. Although I do miss my gun collection  (semi-long story) 

I've bought an initial supply online of things like ammo and reloading supplies. My mom has my credit card so she can buy food and I've been able to talk to her and discuss some of the other things to get (including picking me up a Glock 19 to put with the 12 gauge I bought last time I was home). She's already started on that. 

As I mentioned before, I'll go home on R&R the end of next month and will fill in where I can before returning here to Afghanistan. That will likely be re-building my gun collection a bit more and stocking up on additional ammo. I'll look at what else I can do on the budget that I have. I'm kicking myself now for not waking up sooner, but it is what it is. I have to make the best of it now. 

I've read a lot of info here on this forum (thanks everyone ) and I've done research in other places as well. I'm not blindly going forward  I do have a plan which is more than I had a couple of weeks ago  I have a budget for what I intend to spend on preps. Being debt-free remains a top priority. My debt to income ratio is only 10% right now. My goal is to have that at 0% in 7 months. I had planned on trying to buy property for cash or having a signifigant down payment that would keep my payments very low (less than rent). I don't need much. Used mobile homes in good shape can be picked up pretty reasonable. Whether or not I'm able to buy property or not now will depend on the economy. 

Will I be as prepared as I would like to be? No. But I will be much better off than a lot of people and barring total collapse (in which case I would need much more than I can possibly get at this point) should make it through. If push comes to shove I'll put my garden in at my brothers place


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## mosquitomountainman

Ron22 said:


> ...Will I be as prepared as I would like to be? No. But I will be much better off than a lot of people and barring total collapse (in which case I would need much more than I can possibly get at this point) should make it through. If push comes to shove I'll put my garden in at my brothers place


You're looking at different angles of approach and are actually doing the stuff you need to do to prepare so you're ahead of many others.

On land, be sure to check Craig's list and other odd sources for property and alternative financing. There are more people willing to owner finance than ever before. Most want a substantial down payment but some just want to get rid of their property ASAP. Be sure to read the contract very carefully and have a title search made. The real-estate outfits around here only list the expensive stuff because that's where they make the money but in some instances prices have dropped substantially. You just have to kno where to look. Good luck on your search.

And ... I don't think anyone ever gets to the point they would like to be in preparedness. But that doesn't mean we stop working on it!


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## Ron22

When I read the article on QE2, it was like a lightbulb went on and I had an "oh crap!" moment  I'm basically stuck here for the moment. Fortunately I do have internet access (although not always the most reliable ) and I discovered that I could do some preparing by coordinating deliveries to my brothers place. 

My mom is able to take care of some things to. It's actually easier for her to do some things rather than my brother, because she's retired. It wasn't difficult to convince her that we should make some preparations. She remembers rationing from WW II (something I can easily see the country going to in an emergency). 

You're right, I suspect that I'll continue to prep and work towards being as self-sufficient as possible.

Thanks for the tips about Craig's List  I had not thought about that. Thats something I will look into as I get closer to my retirement date. I've been checking online and affordable land still seems to be available in the area that I'm going to retire too. It's not as far from large cities as I would like, but it is well off the interstates and not easy to drive too unless you know where it is  I have a lot of family in the area and I think that will be important.


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## mosquitomountainman

Ron22 said:


> ... I have a lot of family in the area and I think that will be important.


I think you're right there! We'll have over 20 family members here counting children and grandchildren if TSHTF.


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## WEcoyote

The goverment has 3 ways of "earning" money. it can borrow money. it can inflate money. and it can tax.

We have recently borrowed a ton of money. 
Our national Tax rates are as high as our market can realisticly bare already :surrender:
The only logical thing for the fed to do at this point is inflate the dollar jimmy carter style.

In effect we borrow 100 dollars and pay 105 dollars in return. Then we inflate the dollar so that 100 now = 80 and so our 100 dollar debt can be re payed with 87 cents. We cannot borrow more no one is willing to lend it and we cant tax more without suppressing GDP and we cant spend less because the system we have harbored from the new deal has created a situation where a class of have nots depend on that spending to TOTALLY provide for every aspect of their lives and they would burn Washington to the ground if the handouts stopped. 

Inflation is a forgone political conclusion. As stated in an earlier post the issue with inflation is that wage has a slower catch up curve than price at the check out counter. If i make 10k a year and its now only worth 8k at the check out counter of my local supper market a much bigger % of my yearly salary goes to goods and services i MUST have.

My previously accuired debt is however a lower % of my earnings. If i had a mortgage for a 100k home i would now only owe 80k on it. Once my wage does catch up to inflation im in a much better position than before. 

I am not advocating debt here. My bible is clear on the issue of debt. The borrower is a slave to the Lender.

Also i would like to point out that the intrinsic value of silver and gold in a true SHTF situation may be less than you would expect. With a complete breakdown of a monetary system and full grid collapse i would not sell you a single ear of corn for an ounce of gold. My wife would have to do without new earrings. 

Instead think of amassing Collectibles that are tangible and currently available for use as bank collateral. Several lists are floating around. Antique furniture Firearms exc. things in this category historicly preform as well as gold and silver vs inflation, are tangible. Harder to steal and in a true SHTF retain more value than metal. Also you can enjoy the collecting of them for personal hobbies value.

Make yourself less dependent on the supermarket and hoard guns is it in a nut shell i suppose.


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## SurviveNthrive

Bulk wheat and other grains, TVP and stuff like that are easy to acquire, cheap to buy and store for a long time when in the right containers, so food shouldn't be a factor for anyone who is doing life right.

If we face HYPERINFLATION, well, that's been created to pay off debt and debt isn't that big an issue. A few ounces of gold might pay off what was a whooping debt. It's better to have assets and debt, than no assets and no debt when hyperinflation begins.

Firearms are sorta expensive, as always, and seeing a significant enough spike to make it worthwhile isn't all that likely but ammunition seems to be a good investment. I lucked out buying a lot of Wolf back when you could get two bricks, a case (1,000 rounds) for $125, and I turned around and sold bricks for what I paid for cases. The spam can stuff is worth more. (If you can get ammo in spam cans, get it, it stores well.)


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## WEcoyote

SurviveNthrive said:


> Firearms are sorta expensive, as always, and seeing a significant enough spike to make it worthwhile isn't all that likely but ammunition seems to be a good investment. I lucked out buying a lot of Wolf back when you could get two bricks, a case (1,000 rounds) for $125, and I turned around and sold bricks for what I paid for cases. The spam can stuff is worth more. (If you can get ammo in spam cans, get it, it stores well.)


When i say firearms and antiques im thinking of them in a pre-SHTF AND post-SHTF scenario. in both cases they are desirable for utility and durability but unlike the wolf ammo you sold both antiques and firearms are used as Bank collateral today. There is a measurable well qualified pricing system for them already in place that has historicly out preformed currency in the USA for inflation. The last 30 years averages 4.2% inflation per year where the price of firearms has increased in value 5.8%. prior to that 30 year period is when the rampent inflation of the 70s was so bad. from 70 - 79 im willing to bet that firearms out preformed inflation by more than 10% but i cannot find pricing catalogs for that era. To put that in perspective Gold has beat inflation by only .4% over the same period from 1980 - 2010 compared to firearms 1.6%. Post SHTF firearms still go up in value significantly but not so much as food for example. The added value of firearms in this case is even if nothing goes wrong you can still take a photograph of your gun safe to the local bank of america and borrow money based on it. you just cant do that with a pile of MREs or wolf ammo bricks.


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