# Bug-In or Bug-Out



## Fireman40 (Jan 28, 2014)

What's everyone's take on SHTF scenarios. Do you bug-out or do you hunker down and bug-in?


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## dixiemama (Nov 28, 2012)

We are the BOL for the group but have another piece of property we can use if we get more people than our location can hold. 

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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

No offense but we have gone over this time and again. Do a historic search and you will find every answer under the sun.

So that being said...since its an important question I will give you the unequivocal correct answer:

Its a dumb question.

The correct question is WHEN do you bug in and WHEN do you bug out... which generically we could talk about but in reality is specific to each persons situation.

For me many situations are bug outs, because I live in the mega high population east coast I-95 corridor. Now, if I lived on a farm in Idaho, I'd love to bug in....

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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

Too many variables. It's totally dependent on what the event is, where it is, is it moving? 

for the most part, I think people who's plan is "I'll head to the hills" are just picking a different place to die.

Without the right mentality most will simply give up and quit. I've seen this discussed in regards to other countries where things have all gone to hell. So even those with the mentality to struggle through and survive are going to need realistic plans.

"I can hunt" yeah but that's what all the jokers are thinking, and there's gonna be a lot of pressure on those animals right at the beginning of whatever it is going on. that will make it harder.

"I can start a garden" yeah but that can be difficult even in the best of times. Some people are blessed with a green thumb, more are cursed with a black thumb and everything they try to grow dies. Gardens require water, and depending on what you're trying to grow.. lots of it. and protection from critters... today while everything is peachy-keen you can go to home depot and buy anti gopher/rabbit metal fabric, "up in the hills"... not so much. Plus gardening without heirloom seeds means you may only get a couple crops out of this, if you get them to produce at all. And with the heirloom seeds, how many people really know how to save and store seeds, in a SHTF situation?

anyway, you'll need to decide what is you're trying to be prepared for before you can make realistic plans that are based around BI or BO, each scenario will add a twist or complication, but fortunately a lot of the things are basic to all of them. Air, water and food... after that you can plan for energy, defenses, etc.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

It all depends on your situation, and your personal abilities and mind set. For example I am quite willing to eat insects to survive, many others are not, but on the other hand, I know all most nothing about farming/ranching (except on a very small scale) while others are very knowledgeable. You go with what you know, and learn along the way.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I moved to the country to allow me to build the infrastructure in case of SHTF.

So I will BI.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

Having bought my mini farm,if I'm not working(out to sea)I will BI.The main reason I bought my place is it has a way to have everything we would need.Enough space for a garden(yes I can grow things with my heirloom seeds and I have a TON of books to help me preserve my seeds and a lot of great info while I do practice skills that I'm a little rusty on))hope to have a well dug in the near future,have a pond of fish already, away from town but close enough if I need to go in,close to family,easy to defend,..Personally since I haven't been on here for a long time,I enjoy when people re-ask pertinent questions and kinda wonder why others get bent out of shape to answer.Aren't we here to help?It may be old hat to you but not all of us.And yes I have looked up lots of old questions but you never know when someone may come up with something new or different.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Basically if your location is unsafe you move. If you are reasonably safe where you are you stay.
If you have to move to get food-water-shelter then you move.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Tweto said:


> I moved to the country to allow me to build the infrastructure in case of SHTF.
> 
> So I will BI.


Unless a tornado, volcano,wild fire, chemical spill, etc... force you to bug out.

The "I live at my BOL answer, is old." No! You do not, if you live there its not your BOL, and you probably should have another.

:ignore: Tweto, excuse me I am sick and in a grumpy mood.

I am not saying that you said "I live at my BOL", just that there is an overly facile answer that reappears over and over again and it is dangerous, and, well, bugs me... and its not because I (in general) plan to bug out, its because I bet there were a lot of well set up homes that burnt down last year. If your house is on fire...you might want to reconsider the Bug out...


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

We live in mid-Maine area, low population area. My plan is to stay on our 5 acre home, however we have 56 acres even more secluded very close by. Plans are to setup the secondary property as a viable complete BOL. We have a motorhome ready to go and a bus with supplies. We live two hours from the Canadian Border and possible future plans of small land purchase just inside the border.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> We live in mid-Maine area, low population area. My plan is to stay on our 5 acre home, however we have 56 acres even more secluded very close by. Plans are to setup the secondary property as a viable complete BOL. We have a motorhome ready to go and a bus with supplies. We live two hours from the Canadian Border and possible future plans of small land purchase just inside the border.


Mid East or mid west? Welcome the the neighborhood.


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## Outpost (Nov 26, 2012)

Padre said:


> For me many situations are bug outs, because I live in the mega high population east coast I-95 corridor. Now, if I lived on a farm in Idaho, I'd love to bug in....


Padre,
I keep looking at your location, and all that comes to my mind is "Man! Talk about walking amongst the sinners!"

Chicago has *NOTHING* on Bean-Town!

Brother! For what it's worth, you *earnestly* have my respect!

-God Bless.


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## Wellrounded (Sep 25, 2011)

Padre said:


> Unless a tornado, volcano,wild fire, chemical spill, etc... force you to bug out.
> 
> The "I live at my BOL answer, is old." No! You do not, if you live there its not your BOL, and you probably should have another.
> 
> ...


Yeah you are in a grumpy... 

It all depends on how you define BOL, I bugged out when I was 20, sold my first house and went bush. It was to get away from all the S I saw Hitting the Fan around me. 
I live at my primary BOL (it IS a BOL as others will come here, call us the BOL caretakers ), we have secondary ones. We'd use them in certain situations.

There are only a few instances when we would Bug out from here, bushfire being one, but honestly it would only be for the time it takes for the fire front to pass, 24 hours maybe. We'd go straight back, even if we lost the house and everything else. We've planned for exactly this and have enough stuff stored elsewhere to return and have everything we need to live comfortably within days. That includes stuff like running hot and cold water etc. Of course we can take this 'stuff' and set up anywhere there is a water source..... even deep well


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## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

I would suggest an introductory post with some background so folks can gauge their answers better.

As others have said, there are a lot of variables to this question, e.g. Is it safe where you are? Do you have a good bug out location and is it well stocked? What is the scenario? How large is the group that has to move? What will be your method of transportation and route? Alternate route?

You really need to give this one a lot of individual thought. Generally, bugging in is preferred to bugging out if you have a choice. However, there will be some circumstances where one has to move, but the circumstances that would force you to move may not be the same as would force me to move.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Padre said:


> Unless a tornado, volcano,wild fire, chemical spill, etc... force you to bug out.
> 
> I Have been through several tornadoes and have never bugged out, I just start cleaning up.
> 
> ...


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

Padre said:


> Mid East or mid west? Welcome the the neighborhood.


I live in Medford Maine, about 45 miles North of Bangor, Maine


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Experiance*

I live in the place I intend to die in. I and my wife are 65 plus and our children all live within a mile of us.

That being said , I do have a lot of experience in maintaining necessary services when they are no longer available from utilities and /or government agencies.

I was an HVAC Engineer in a hospital for over twenty years and was tasked with providing contingency emergency services for loss of utilities and services.

This included food storage, electricity, medical gases, water, fire, heating, cooling and security .

In short we were like unto a city and had to be able to rely solely on our own in the event of an internal or external disaster.

I was simultaneously a deputy sheriff. I was a patrol officer and as part of a small county department worked as an investigator also.

I was licensed as a Master electrician, a Master HVAC contractor and a Private Investigator in the Commonwealth of KY.

Since my retirement, I have worked on my home to make it as self sufficient as possible. Without going into details, we can provide for our own electricity, water, food, fuel and medications for at least a year, without any outside help.

My community is rural but not totally isolated. My neighbors are also friends who have the ability to take care of themselves and we also are able to provide for our common defense in the event that law enforcement fails.

I have all the weapons and ammunition I need to put up a pretty good fight if it is ever necessary. I also have the resolve and do not expect to live forever.

The church and the graveyard are a mile from my home. We already have plots and a stone waiting. That is our ultimate bug out location !


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## GaryS (Nov 15, 2011)

I'm in a situation similar to BillM...rural, but not isolated. I'm also retired and have no close-by place I'd wish to bug to, even if I had the means and the energy. My kids are thousands of miles away, so our joining forces anywhere is not possible.

My wife says she'd like to head for Belize, but I'm not leaving Texas. I'm not worried about days or weeks of turmoil with city-raised incompetents the only threat, but if weeks become months, the rules change and older people become dispensable as allies switch allegiances for their own survival. I might as well face that situation from my own home.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

With an elderly mother and mother-in-law to care for plus a wife that would be living in denial, I'll be BI.


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## kappydell (Nov 27, 2011)

It depends on the situation, mostly. Some things are bug-in (epidemics, criminals at large, civil unrest/martial law) and some are bug-out (wildfires, floods, chemical spills). It also depends on which one you have the resources for. I try to stay flexible.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

The bug in and out question pops out in every survival forum all over the world and like probably stated here all ready, is up to your level of panic during the event and the event itself, many have die for lack of common sense, over estimating their knowledge and not obeying law enforcement orders of evacuation, we here see this things every year. Just pay attention to your local news and events and have some preparations for just that case where you have to evacuated and by all means forget the many Rambo experts out there and used your common sense.


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## ddowell73 (Nov 11, 2013)

I think the question should pop up and be discussed from time to time. Things change, and so do opinions and insights. The search function only gives a historical snapshot of opinions on a particular subject. I don't understand why people get uptight about someone new asking a question in a discussion forum, even if it has been discussed at length before. Today is different than yesterday, there are new members who may have valuable input. If a question is asked, and you feel like it has been beat to death, why even respond? You are not obligated to opine under any circumstance. So instead of the snarky "use the search function" comment, why not just excercise your right to remain silent, and let those who wish to participate in the discussion do so at their will?


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

ddowell73 said:


> I think the question should pop up and be discussed from time to time. Things change, and so do opinions and insights. The search function only gives a historical snapshot of opinions on a particular subject. I don't understand why people get uptight about someone new asking a question in a discussion forum, even if it has been discussed at length before. Today is different than yesterday, there are new members who may have valuable input. If a question is asked, and you feel like it has been beat to death, why even respond?


The issue is not asking a question already asked, the issue is that there is no correct answer to that question, and so if you want to see all the various opinions I recommend looking at the historical threads, not because I am opposed to giving a new be the right answer but because I am opposed to giving the wrong answer.

Every one of those hard line bug in/bug out opinions is wrong!!!

What I am suggesting is that the RIGHT question is asking what are the circumstances for bug in and those fore bugging out...?

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## catdog6949 (Apr 25, 2012)

*Bug In/Bug Out......*

We plan to Bug In (Even though in a City), why? No Personaly Owned BugOut Location. That being said, we have basic solar(We are in an Apartment), 90 days Water and Food, plus current monthly Food , Weapon's(I have done what's was needed in past).

But we can also pick-up and Bug Out, we will have too Leave some of Our Supplie's. Yes we would Currently have too go too the Wood's, but that's Ok. Why because I have backpack camped the wood's here in Cascade's in all 4 Season's.

We have a place picked out and each have map's too get there, we have both been there. It's very secluded and not easily accessible! So I do not belive even the average Camper will go that deep in the back country.

Yes I know the aurgument about game, but I belive, that less people will actaully go too the wood's. But One Day we Will have our Own Homestead and will Not Have to Go Too The Wood's!

Survival Prep's are like an "Onion" You have too have Many Layer's.

Cat and Turtle


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

catdog6949 said:


> We plan to Bug In (Even though in a City), why? No Personaly Owned BugOut Location.
> 
> But we can also pick-up and Bug Out, we will have too Leave some of Our Supplie's. Yes we would Currently have too go too the Wood's, but that's Ok. Why because I have backpack camped the wood's here in Cascade's in all 4 Season's.


So here is a perfect example. Catdog plans to bug in. Ok, fair enough, her reasons are valid, still not making a dumb rigid decision she admits the possibility that bug-out might become necessary.

I would suggest, that the next step is for you to consider the types of scenarios/situations that would necessitate bug out. You say you live in a city so I am picturing apartment buildings so of course some things you need to consider is how you would obtain h2o and heat if the grid went down. Also, without water, in a WROL, what would you do in the face of FIRE, which is one of the big reasons why those in high population areas need to consider bug out. Lots of people means high demand for limited (supply) resources, but these limitations can be overcome. If you can provide for food, water, and heat and secure your location, you should be able to hunker down even in a city for a long time, limited only by the problem of sustainability and resupply.... But the real problem in the city IMHO, if you can provide for those staples and for security, is that with all those people misbehaving, the risk of fire is going to be high, and potentially deadly. Of course there are other considerations, e.g. I am not sure that security is really as easy as it seems.

Next I would suggest that recognizing the possibility of needing to bug out that you make at least some preparations for it. Catdog seems to have a basic idea of what she might do to bug out, but of course there are a lot of variables that her plan does not control for. Might I suggest that if this is the best you can do, then fine, but perhaps you could do better...

1) Finding/making some friends who might be willing to double up with you in case of a SHTF.

2) How about family members?

3) How about a public or semi/public building you could "requisition". For instance a ranger (firefighting) station or cabin deep in the woods that belongs to the public (government) and would likely be abandoned early on in a SHTF.

I am of the philosophy that survival in a long term SHTF will require eventually a group. Those who survive without one will do so mostly because of dumb luck--and I don't believe in luck. You bring a lot to the table, in a SHTF, whether the people you plan to hook up with are preppers or not. Being able to contribute your preps to another family might seem like halving your resources but sharing your resources might paradoxically multiply your ability to survive. Stores of food are great for initial survivability but ultimately it will run out, sooner or later, and you will need to hunt, gather, or optimally grow food, this requires manpower and security... This of course is equally true in the city where security is a constant issue, and so if you plan to bug in it might do well to recruit a group of like minded city dwellers to back you up in bugging in. Of course I am sure you have considered how you are going to try to pull off a bug in...

Addendum: Personally I am a default bug out guy, because I do have a destination in the form of a rural BOL. This BOL gives me a rally point with my group, as well as space to house them (currently we can house 12 and we are looking to add a bunk room to sleep another 8) and lots of options. However, taking my own advice I also think about situations that would make a bug out fool hearty and how I would bug in, or at least shelter in place for a time.


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## catdog6949 (Apr 25, 2012)

*Padre.....one correction....your basicaly right!*

Cat is short for my name...I am a female....LOL!  Other than your gender mistake, I enjoyed reading your post! But you didn't know. LOL!

I have camped since I was 10 backpacked several week's on trail's before18. Joined the U.S. Army, back in 77 ! Did 2 -up's Left that went into private security for a living. Since leaving military, became an avid camper/hunter/and Survivalist Since the 80's,

So I am not the helpless female! Anyhow You had a good idea about finding other's in this area, who might want some help, and in return help us out too? 

Cat and Turtle


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

catdog6949 said:


> Cat is short for my name...I am a female....LOL!  Other than your gender mistake, I enjoyed reading your post! But you didn't know. LOL!
> 
> I have camped since I was 10 backpacked several week's on trail's before18. Joined the U.S. Army, back in 77 ! Did 2 -up's Left that went into private security for a living. Since leaving military, became an avid camper/hunter/and Survivalist Since the 80's,
> 
> ...


Ah... I thought the dog was some sort of ganster swag thing... 

My mistake.

I know reaching out to strangers is extremely risky and delicate, in my case my group is made entirely of family members and friends, some of whom don't yet know they are in a group but have been discretely introduced to my retreat and invited in passing to come on up if the SHTF. Our core members are actually prepping for less involved "members", many of whom have key skills, but all of whom I care for and would want to take care of any how!!! Like I said, in my opinion more bodies, means more security, food, skills, etc., and so each person, whether a prepper or not is in my view an asset, not just a mouth to feed (although it would be nice if they each showed up with just a winters worth of food!!!). And almost every member of my group as part of their covert initiation has been felt out politically, evaluated for skill sets, noted for faults, and introduced to basic skills, like the use of firearms.

In my case I am the land lord, and so I can tell you from the point of view of many people you will be approaching, if they consider just their security needs to protect their resources, they will at least consider your proposal. You are not in my neck of the woods but if you brought the right skills and preps to the table I can personally assure you that someone like me would be very open to inviting someone like you to come visit if the SHTF and you are forced to bug out--granted, after a considerable vetting process.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

circumstances dictate your exposure to risk. 

Can you AFFORD to commute to work 90 minutes and pay the same in rent and expenses, tires, gas etc as you pay in RENT and living in an APT?

If you live in an APT, are you ready to accept that methhead #1 will probably shoot at cokehead #5 (but miss, horribly) and merely wing pot-head # 43 who drops his zippo while trying a bong rip, and then the entire building burns down... where are your preps now?

I offer NO solutions. I simply suggest that life sucks, and do the best you can to minimize risk to your family and loved ones 

Good luck bros! your family needs you!


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## ARDon (Jun 28, 2014)

too much of Hollywood has corrupted the minds of people with shows as of Walking Dead, Fallen Skies & Revolution making the notion of survival in a real crisis that bugging out is the only way for anyone to surivive post SHTF times. What a huge misnomer IMO. I can see were bugging out would be important and has its role in the preppers/survivalist world. I considered bugging out IMO "for me" the last resort with the exception of natural disasters in some cases, an area over runned by a gang of marauders and or round of up citizens in the area by a tyranny government. Heres the problem I see, what one might think its good for him, will NOT be good for another individual (I'm talking about bugging out). What I have noticed & seen is many that lack the knowledge of survival skills & one admires anothers thinking they could, but in all reality putting them or himself into a deadly crisis thinking he can survive by what he has read or have so little time & experience & knowledge in survivial community. This aint NO game nor hit a re-start button when you end up in trouble and things aint going your way. These types of people think they have ALL the answers to every problem they will encounter because they think they have a BOB with all the equipment, packing firearms they will live & survive in post SHTF times. None of us have all the answers and never will. Day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute is ALL we have in post SHTF times. We have be come spoiled by modern times & the conveniences what it has offered us over the years in pre-SHTF times. What I see IMO is some forget the most important acronyms or they simply dont know them, the word "survival" in any situation that arises. Just like the letter "S" size up the situation. That should be 1st, no hasty decisions or guessing. Knowing how to make good and accurate decisions & to how to improvise will keep you alive. Many will die by bad choices they made or unnecessary travel they didnt have to make. 
S – Size up the situation
U – Use all your senses OR undue haste makes waste
R – Remember where you are
V – Vanquish fear and panic
I – Improvise
V – Value living
A – Act like the natives
L – Live by your wits 

If the wife & I have G.O.D. "Get Out of Dodge" it will be without a choice, it will be a must.

Another reason whyI was also thinking that bugging out could not work for some, where I would think it would be difficult (unless it's a must with no alternative) is age and physical condition, health factors or disabilities, family relationships: wife & kids . Another is your preps, most of us have accumulated many months of food & supplies, which would be difficult to move or take with us w\o being noticed from the undesirables or sheep. Big metropolitan cities were vast amounts of populations & different types of dwelling as of apartments, condo's, duplexes large housing tracks would be high risk of danger and bugging out would be a serious option. I believe having options (plan A, plan B and even a plan C). The most important thing "for me" is to size up the situation 1st, assess your general options. Plan "A" in many events would be to "bug in" and fortify at home. Where plan "B" might be bugging out to relocate with family members in a rural area outside of a large metro city and were plan C could be the last resort of heading for a community of like minded people. Another important thing is to look at the option for group \ community of like minded people in the area temporarily. As the saying goes, "sit tight or take flight" goes back to the letter "S" in the word survival: Size up the situation. That should be 1st, no hasty foolish decisions, do not panic. Knowing how to make good and accurate decisions & to how to improvise will keep you alive.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*My wife and I are 65 +*

My wife and I are 65+.

I have a home and property here and it is paid for.

I know the people in my community , good and bad, and they know us.

I have prepared to live without assistance for an extended period of time.

My children and their families live within a mile of my house.

I am their bug out location !

Why would I want to go on the road during a chaotic crises and deal with strangers when I already know what I would have to deal with here.

I will live and die here for better or worse. My home is my castile and I will defend it with all my vigor and might.


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## fteter (May 23, 2014)

We all have to recognize and prepare according to our own circumstances. Padre's point on the discussion of this issue is well-taken...it's hashed out over and over again here and in other forums. However, I do have to admit that I learn something new each time it's hashed out, so I'm pretty cool with this thread myself.

As for myself, my wife and I formerly planned to bug out of our suburban-almost rural home in the southern Salt Lake valley. But, as we've aged, that plan has changed. We'll be bugging in now, and may likely become the rally point for some of our adult children. We still maintain bug out bags in case the situation at home is untenable. But we have a pretty solid neighborhood, and many of our neighbors are also well-prepared (it's a big part of the culture up here). In addition, the restrictions of advancing old age make bugging out a less-practical option...for us.

It really comes down to situational awareness, a solid knowledge of your own strengths and limitations, and keeping your options open as long as reasonably possible. So everyone's answer will be a bit different.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I figure that every situation is ultimately a bug-in scenario. Either you bug-in to start out or you bug-out to where you bug-in. My plan is to save myself the packing and just bug-in. I do not live in an urban environment. Everyone needs to make their own decision based on their situation.


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## Ridgerunner (Oct 27, 2008)

For us since our family is spread out across the USA Getting to them would not be very easy. we are planning to BI

We have good friends and neighbors that are like minded, so I would hope that they we would all be assets to each other. 

I am aware that people can change when they get desperate, so a BO plan is also necessary if things get out of hand.


If we have to BO
I am going to be building a Small but completely off grid camper that my family can use and have most of the stuff and amenity's that we have now.
We have property and family on the west coast and since we live on the east coast this will hopefully allow us to get to a location that we stay.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I agree with most, as you get older your plans change. My kids live 1200 miles away, however I own my own home of 5 acres which I'm trying to make fully self sufficient, "mainly to be off grid "I have 56 acres 7 1/2 miles away fully paid for with river rights and plenty of trees. If the kids want to show up that's fine with me and I'm trying to get enough supplies stocked for them too. Last but not least I am prepared to bug out. I have a motorhome fully ready to head out if "bugging in" is out.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

Caribou said:


> Everyone needs to make their own decision based on their situation.


Yes...but not just your situation but also on the situation confronting you.



Padre said:


> Unless a tornado, volcano,wild fire, chemical spill, etc... force you to bug out.





Tweto said:


> I Have been through several tornadoes and have never bugged out, I just start cleaning up.
> 
> Volcano? The nearest volcano to us is the caldera at Yellow Stone. If it goes, the experts are predicting 6 feet of ash in Nebraska. Game over!
> 
> ...


Its called SHTF for a reason... Its a RARE unforseen occurrence that makes a smelly mess of your life. If it were easy to predict, its shape or form neatly fit into a nice box, or it was (semi) regularly occurring it would not be SHTF.

Thus none of the experiences you describe rise in my book to the caliber of SHTF, they were minor disasters and inconveniences.

Talk to someone from Oklahoma about how many twisters they experience with minimal damage...then there is one that touches down on your house...now that's SHTF. I was out looking at a piece of forest torn to shreds by a twister the other day...are you sure you want to bug in for that?

In general I would not consider any natural disaster a SHTF situation unless it destroy your home or was more than regional in scope.

Don't fall into this silly Nat Geo trap of preparing for only one disaster at a time! A real SHTF will bring with it secondary disasters. Maybe that tornado doesn't destroy your house, but instead hits power substation taking down the grid for the Eastern US like the blackout of 04. This in turn takes down utilities and does enough damage to leave your region in the dark for months. Bug in? Sure! But what happens when a lightning strike or overload causes your house to catch fire or the failure of traffic signals causes a chemical truck to get in an accident... And there are no radios to get the Fire Department or they are too busy to get to your single family residence or the minor inconvenience of a chemical spill is multiplied by the fact that there is already a multiregional disaster going on?


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