# General questions/concerns of preppers



## Beeorganic (Oct 11, 2011)

I'm a "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid) person by nature. Not meaning to be critical of anyone's prepping plans/technique (even being prepared a little is better than not being prepared at all) here; However, I'm somewhat (for lack of a better word) concerned about what I believe is perhaps being overlooked for long term planning by some preppers. I'm going to re-emphasize the point I am NOT being critical here again; In furtherence, I'm not even going to remotely claim I have the perfect plan either. I'm seeking to understand how and why certain preppers are doing some of the things they're doing is all. I tend to believe we would like to pass as much as possible onto the next generation once we're gone; However, if they don't have access to certain current technologies or equipment if/when TSHTF I believe they'll end up having to reinvent the wheel (metaphorically speaking). Another thing I believe is that preppers are pre-wired in their DNA to ask the "What if's" questions ; Therefore, I'm going to ask.

Some emphasis has been placed on solar panels, inverters, and batteries to get off the grid or designated to be used as a back up alternative. That part I understand and respect. Like everything else though, solar panels and their associated componets have an finite lifespan. Hypothetically speaking, say a EMP occurs. It fries all electronic things without protection. What do you (or your children) do then? Where will you/they find replacement parts or the technical data to repair them when that eventuality arrives? The batteries eventually lose their charge. It's unlikely a 7-11 is going to be open when they all die. This would tie in also with all forms of electronic communication as well. Crank mechanisms on LED flashlights break too. Most of these things end up being paperweights do they not?

E-books and the internet. have been mention here. While they are currently available, that may not always be the case. The internet is a great tool to access information; However, when Mubarak was overthrown in Egypt internet access was for all intent purposes cut. China heavily censors and blocks certain sites. Obama seeks to possess an internet "kill switch". Computers crash and die too in a few years as well. Where will you or your children find information then?

Food storage. Say you have a year's worth of #10 Honeyville foods and/or MRE's . That's great (you're better off than I am). If you have to bug out, would you be able to carry or haul all that food with the rest of your supplies to your site? Granted, I believe some if not most would have these supplies already at the relocation site. Eventually though, one would have to start growing their own crops using the tools and techniques from the pre-Industrial revolution era. No gasoline for the tractor or tiller. Even with a wood gassifacation system, you'd have to change the oil (which would be unattainable eventually). Do you (generally speaking) have non-hybrid seeds stored up? Canning or dehydrating and preserving capabilities?

Gold and precious metals. Can you eat it? No. Can you wear it (to keep you warm)? No. Can you drink it? No. Will it shelter you? Maybe, if you can find someone willing to accept gold or precious metals in bartering. By having gold and/or precious metals one is counting on or anticipating someone else accepting it and receptive to the perceived value of it, yes? In the long run is gold really worth anything?

The answers I'm seeking deal with long term sustainability- secondary, and teritary plans. The current system we have (with all the conveniences and unprecedented access to things) is fantasic but, one little glitch in that system and a domino effect takes place. What good is a $1,000.00 rifle when the ammo runs out eventually? Night vision goggles, GPS, top of the line boots, Gortex clothing... all these things are extremely useful; However, they do wear out and fail eventually, true? I do fear for those who may fall victim to "Normalicy Bias" even though they are making preparations for the worse. I would encourage those who have thought about things- like the above mentioned items (and include things I haven't) to share your thoughts, plans, and ideas. We may not all be on the same page on everything; However, we are certainly all going in the same direction. I don't believe we want to see anyone of us fail for lack of knowledge and forethought. If nothing else, this topic could just be considered food for thought.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

This is going to be a great discussion. I have been thinking about some of these same things for a while, and I am scared to death about not being ready in every worst case scenario. can we ever be truly prepared for everything... probably not but we can gather at least the knowledge or ingenuity to handle.


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

I have a few old sets of encyclopedias and plan to get a modern set in the future. I also have books in the following categories: cookbooks, gardening, survival, medical, first aid, fiction, history, dictionaries, and seed harvesting. There's still a lot more information that I need and want to acquire in a book format. I'm trying to collect this information because like others, I know that technology has its limitations. Sooner or later things are going to need to be repaired or replaced in a long term disaster. Having the knowledge and skills to do these things will increase your chances of survival and place you at an advantage over those who don't.


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## UncleJoe (Jan 11, 2009)

Beeorganic said:


> The answers I'm seeking deal with long term sustainability- secondary, and teritary plans.


Human beings are a resourceful, innovative and very curious species. That's how we've moved from the caves to the moon. There has always been that inner drive to do more and find easier ways to do it. Even after a major life changing catastrophe, unless of course the entire species is wiped out, there will be a few that eventually will ask - What if? That's how we got where we are.

No doubt all the preps that could possibly be stored will run out if WTSHTF is of a multi-generational nature but people are resilient. They will find a way to claw their way back out of the caves. There are thousands of years of human history before electricity became more commonplace in the early 20th century. I like to think that it could eventually be put back together if it is all wiped out.

Personally, we have a lot of the "old world" farming implements, water that can be pulled from a shallow well with a bucket if need be, a reasonable store of heirloom seeds, fruit trees, berry bushes and a couple binders with information on how things were done before the Industrial/Technical Revolution. I have experimented with the old stuff just to understand how it works, and it does work, but I plan to avoid using the pre-IR technology unless it is forced upon us. I like my chainsaw and tiller. But if it came right down to it, we're about as ready as we can be to take a step back in time.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

A scenario where all things modern will disappear completely is just one of numerous scenarios. The likelihood of a complete and permanent societal failure is probably mush less than intermittent disruptions as some new order of things take shape and are implemented. Examples abound - Post-war Europe, post-Soviet Russia, Serbia, and various others were "normal" life is disrupted, shortages occur more frequently than not, and most spend hours daily searching for the things they need. In such an environment, those who have the Honeyville #10s, alternate energy sources, tools and equipment, and some precious metals to spend until a new currency can be circulated will be much better off during that transition into a re-vamped society than most.

If, OTOH, should some massive event occur that removes the possibility of any sort of short-term (1 to 5 years) recovery or partial recovery, and the certainty that none of the items you mention can be replaced once they wear out, then most of us will not likely survive it. Those who do will have been in isolated small pockets of humanity and may even now be accustomed to life at a primitive level. DNA records indicate that at one time in human history the human global population was reduced down to a miniscule few thousand people due to some event. A super-volcano is suspect as the cause.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

Allow me to relate to you this true story. You all probably remember the problems many farmers were having keeping their farms from foreclosure back about twenty years ago. You now, Willie Nelson... "Farm Aid"?

On Mid-West farmer was farming thousands of acres... and loosing his shirt. He owned 1K acres himself, and rented several thousand more raising corn and soy beans. Fuel, equipment, fertilizer, seed, the market... all these costs were breaking him.

This man scoured the country side looking for, and buying, all the horse-drawn farm equipment he could find that was working or fixable. He bought a draft horse, a pregnant mare who later foiled. Now he had two.

He began farming only thirty acres using his new "tractor". Plowing, planting, raking... it was all done now using his inventory of horse-drawn equipment. People though he was crazy. Even his family thought so when he gave up his land leases, sold off his motorized farm equipment, and, instead, did this dramatic down-sizing and re-invention of farming. That is, until his profits started coming in. Yes, profits. Something he and his family had not seen in the previous few years.

The reason I bring this up, and it is a true story, is that it demonstrated how well some can make it if they have the knowledge... and, yes, the proper tools and equipment, in this case horse-drawn farm equipment, should our modern conveniences go away.


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## 1969cj-5 (Sep 14, 2011)

Jezcruzn, I believe I have heard about that as well. Googled the heck out of it but could not find it though. I need better search skills.


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## Jezcruzen (Oct 21, 2008)

1969cj-5 said:


> Jezcruzn, I believe I have heard about that as well. Googled the heck out of it but could not find it though. I need better search skills.


I remember watching the story on one of the news programs. Might have been ABC Evening News at the time. Showed the guy sitting on a piece of farm equipment being pulled by his mare.


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## lotsoflead (Jul 25, 2010)

forget about all the modern gadgets that were invented after WW2, learn to live pre WW2 days, Gold and especially silver are good to have, even a hobo would sell his coat in the winter for a silver quarter.If you want a gun, go to a flint lock, flint can be found and powder can be made. the only problems will be medical, pre 1950 you could go to a Dr or hospital and get attention. today you could be standing in blood an inch deep and you're not going to get any attention til you fill out the insurance forms or lay some money on the table.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

lotsoflead said:


> , learn to live pre WW2 days, Gold and especially silver are good to have,


If it truly hits the rotating blades, I'd suggest we're going to be back in the 18th century, with probably the same level of population.

Watch after armageddon.


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## tac803 (Nov 21, 2010)

The idea that one individual can store enough bacon, bullets and bullion to survive for 10 or 15 years without interacting with others is a little far fetched, IMHO.

Preparedness, to me, is more a state of mind. Putting aside things that may be useful in different circumstances is only one aspect of the preparedness mindset. Understanding that being *dependent on others *for your personal well being can be a *bad idea *is the first, and for me, the most important step.

Equipment breaks, batteries die, gas powered engines run out of gas. People lived and thrived before any of those things existed. It's a matter of your *perception of necessity*. If your computer, Ipad-pod, cell phone is something you think you need to survive from day to day, you really need to explore your perception of necessity. They are conveniences, not matters essential to survival!

The survival mindset and some basic knowlege are the two most important things that anyone can have in their kit, and they will never break down.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

if the shtf what I have saved on cds could be printed out by me using the geni. I would print out what I felt would be needed and hope that later I could print more. I do have a wealth of brain knowledge that should suffice if all else fails. keeping some food and seed as I can for the future is also on the shelf. other than that like the pioneers I will find what I need or do without or make do. that is what survival is looking around and doing what you need to do with you see or have.


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

Jezcruzen said:


> On Mid-West farmer was farming thousands of acres... and loosing his shirt. He owned 1K acres himself, and rented several thousand more raising corn and soy beans. Fuel, equipment, fertilizer, seed, the market... all these costs were breaking him.
> 
> This man scoured the country side looking for, and buying, all the horse-drawn farm equipment he could find that was working or fixable. He bought a draft horse, a pregnant mare who later foiled. Now he had two.
> 
> ...


Duh! This is the way the Amish have done it for years and still feed their 13 kids. Sustainability is what it is all about. Farming with chemicals is not sustainable.

Having said that, I can tell you that walking behind a plow is unbelieveably hard work. I know that most of the people on this list could not physically do it. I can't blame farmers for wanting to mechanize things. I used to hate that we didn't have a tractor at least for plowing.

Horse-drawn farm equipment is not difficult to get. If anyone wants to know where, send me a private message.


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## siletz (Aug 23, 2011)

I think we can drive ourselves crazy thinking of all the "what-ifs" and how to be prepared. Do your best today with what you have, and gain as much knowledge as is possible. In book form, not on the internet, so you can access it at any point. But, believe in yourself that you have the ingenuity to adjust to what may come when it happens. I think we are stronger than we sometimes give ourselves credit for. People have lived a subsistence living for thousands of years, and we could too if forced into it.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

:scratch soooo... _*nobody*_ on here has ever built a *lead-acid* battery (from scratch) before? :hmmm:

not a single person knows how to wind generator coils or undercut a commutator, REALLY? 

or are all ya'all just hiding your skills because, like me, you're tired of putting your own projects on hold while you help eveybody else out first :gaah:


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

I will agree that prepping/survival is a state of mind.

The only scenarios in which all modern technology disappears for a significant length of time (decades? generations?) will be of catastrophe where there would be few humans left alive anyway, think all out nuke fest, asteroid strike, etc. In that case theres not really much to worry about cause we prolly wont live thru it anyway.

If its relatively short term, maybe a few years, then there would be significantly less people on the planet anyway and it would take a long time for us to crawl our way back to modern civilization.
Yes, it would be a great idea for us to learn to live like the Amish, or better yet, cavemen, but thats not very realistic for most. If we were thrown back into hunter gatherer days, there will be much less competition for scarce resources after the initial period of absolute mayhem. There wouldnt be many people who could hack that llifestyle, physically or mentally, but humanity would carry on its way.

As to how all this relates to prepping, you can only do so much. If your one years store of goods runs out, then we wil make do as best we can after that. Unless one is totally self sufficient, you couldnt stock up enough for a lifetime, but as has been said, humans have been living on this planet for over one hundred thousand years without ipods, electricity, etc, and we made it this far.
Do whats realistic/possible, and be content with it.

Even my most realistic worst case scenario (economic collapse), not all will be lost. Even if all of the knowledge was lost, things could be reverse engineered.
As for gold/silver, they have been used as a store of value/medium of exchange (the definition of money) since the birth of civilization. For them to have no value would require a global catastrophe, again, which will mean so little of humanity would be left as to make the whole discussion meaningless.


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## Beeorganic (Oct 11, 2011)

An interesting observation has presented itself. Defining a difference and some distinctions between basic/primitive surivial and prepping. Prepping is obviously for survival; However, it can quantified by the tools and techniques one uses. An example- one person uses a Magnesium bar with a striker tool to build a fire while someone else uses a bow and string friction technique. While both achieve the same results, one is sustainable while the other is not. Don't we generally hope for the best but prepare for the worse to begin with? I'm looking at this through the prism of what could/should be passed onto future generations along with the basic necessary talents, skills, and capabilites required without technology or a life we currently know it as ceasing tomorow. Like a few other people here, I tend to gravitate towards the Amish lifestyle while keeping one foot in the realm of modern technologies- and planning for them to fail to one degree or another, natural or man made. Even the Amish lifestyle has it's flaws too IMO but that's here nor there. Personally, I don't know about the rest of you but I'm perpetually trying to find a solid reset point (and a reasonable balance) in the event technology fails or any major societal crisis arises. True, humans have existed for a long time and have made steady progressions throughout. There have been a multitude of setbacks along they way and we've survived but, it appears to me that the more progressions and advancements are made- the setbacks are greater if/when these advancements fail (something as trivial as a computer virus can do). Isn't part of the prepping process to lessen the potential bumps in the road? Tac803 I concur 100% with you that prepping is a state of mind in the context of "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too..." (Kiplin); In furtherence, your "perception of necessity" dovetails nicely with my "Normalicy bias" assertion.

On a sidenote-I would dearly love to start a new thread called "If you could only have 10 things". The ten tools or items wanted/needed to survive and thrive under any given scenario. Compare notes and see who would theoretically last the longest. Have a forum version of the tv show "Survivor", (without the alliances) voting on the best ideas or arrive at a general consensus but I digress.

One thing I am certain about is that we all do agree upon are the four basic necessities of life- food, clothing, shelter, and water. In reading some of these comments, it has helped me in identifying some of my own prepping shortcomings. There are two position I never want to find myself in. A position to fail and in a position to "do whatever it takes" to survive.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I have books - lots of books. Both in paper and on computer. I have solar systems that will allow me access to my computers, printers, lights, communication-systems, etc. Do I expect that in the case of TEOTWAWKI that I will be able to continue to use the systems that I have forever? No - but - I will be able to use them for a while till I can adjust to the _new way of doing things_.

Pictured below is just a portion of my "library" with some select pictures of the book-titles. Not only do I have the books, but, I have read them and I have practiced the information that I have learned in them. Yes, that book about blade-smithing has been read, used and I have made knives based on what I learned in it. I also have books on ancient-forging techniques, farm-implement forging (and farrier), I can forge-weld steel and even make damascus steel.

I can use wood or coal (I have a nice stash) to cook or make metal products. I can trade my skills / talents / products in metal-working for someone else's skills or products. If TEOTWAWKI does happen, it is our skills that will be more valuable than just the products. I don't need a $10,000 gun, I need ammo for a gun. I don't need 40 guns, I need 40 cases of ammo. Beyond that, I also have a cross-bow that I can re-use the arrows on (that is till the string breaks, then I need to trade services with someone who has a bow-press).

If TEOTWAWKI happens, we will probably be reduced to an agrarian society, with skills bartering and such and it might be a few years before we can rebuild the world back to a technological wonder, but, we are resiliant people - we just need to survive long enough for that to happen.


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## Sourdough (May 22, 2010)

Good thread.......I made my decisions on this in 1965, and have no reconsideration.


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

Most of us probably still have holes we need to fill in, and just when we think we've got it, we find something else (tools, skills, seeds, etc..) that we over looked. And most of us probably look at prepping like insurance, just in case. In reference to gold and silver, which many of us cannot afford, I would think of that as an insurance also. What if.....it never happens? What if, I have all these old timey skills, tools, seeds, etc...never invested and it doesn't come to pass? Well, a little gold or silver would in essence be the IRA, would it not? Just another way to have as many bases covered as possible.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

I have an AWESOME collection of movie, TV, and Music... Not sure how I would run the server, but with a projector could run a movie theater 

I understand the ammo question, we're limiting our collection to 2 or three sizes right now... at least until we hit some minimum levels of supplies.


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## SageAdvicefarmgirl (Jun 23, 2011)

Immolatus said:


> As for gold/silver, they have been used as a store of value/medium of exchange (the definition of money) since the birth of civilization. For them to have no value would require a global catastrophe, again, which will mean so little of humanity would be left as to make the whole discussion meaningless.


And even then, gold and silver make nice jewelry!

On a serious note, tho, *we all agree to do what you can with what you can*. I personally would love to see folks living a more agrarian lifestyle, tho I hate to see SHTF to bring it about!


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Beeorganic said:


> Hypothetically speaking, say a EMP occurs. It fries all electronic things without protection. What do you (or your children) do then? Where will you/they find replacement parts or the technical data to repair them when that eventuality arrives? The batteries eventually lose their charge.
> 
> E-books and the internet. have been mention here.
> 
> ...


A lot of good questions.

Different people see different scenarios with different outcomes. Some people see an EMP as the greatest danger. I see it as being hyperinflation. Some people think the world will end as we know it and it won't come back for a very long time. I think we'll have hyperinflation, there will be chaos for a year or two or three, then things will go back to normal.

It makes sense to have books in physical form. Batteries don't last forever but I'll enjoy my Kindle and my iPad with external AA battery charging units for as long as I can.

Precious metals are what you want to have when you have everything else that you need. It's what you want to have most of your savings in. It's the best long-term investment you can make since eventually the dollar will become worthless. I think junk silver coins will become an alternative currency during hyperinflation or post-collapse, as well as being a good investment today.

Things wear out. Who knows how long it will be after the collapse before new manufacturing takes place. It makes sense to have extra clothing packed away. We have two Mossberg Bantam 20 gauge shotguns. I think it's good to have guns that take the same ammo and to have spare items for the things that are important. We have two kerosene heaters. I plan on getting two more, just to make sure we have enough in case one or two fail.

I plan on bugging in. It would be difficult to take all our food with us. We have over 1000 cans of food and about 1450 gallons of water. I don't see a good affordable alternative. If we have to leave our chances of survival drop to almost 0. Unless we could move to a vacant home very close to where we are now.


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## Sourdough (May 22, 2010)

I am quite sure the Government will provide for our needs, everything will be fine.


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## Immolatus (Feb 20, 2011)

Sourdough said:


> I am quite sure the Government will provide for our needs, everything will be fine.


Oh yeah, what was I thinking? I dont need to prep for anything!


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## Ponce (May 3, 2009)

Beerorganic?......I already have all that you posted (many times two of them) and a lot more, with many of them of my own design.

Back in Cuba many are making a living by renting movies at a dollar a day and books for 10 cents a day.........remember that the general salary for everyone is of $30.00 a month so that they find ways to make extra pesos...

Many more like to set up a movie house at home and you can see a movie for 10 cents, times 20 = $2.00 a night and times 30 = $60.00 a month... many of them are willing to pay the round trip ticket from Miami to Cuba just to be able to get the latest movies in the US, of course the "passenger" usually takes around 25 movies per trip......only one movie house in Havana.

I for one will managed to live for the rest of my life without working...but...just in case, I have a new metal engine lathe and the generator, with a 220 AC, to make it work.

"Get ready today for the way that you want to live tomorrow"... Ponce 

And maybe I should add........."for tomorrow it wil be to late".........


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## Vertigo (Aug 6, 2009)

NaeKid said:


> @Naekid


Lol, I got my brother that same book, the complete blade smith, for his christmas last year 

He's not quite at the forging state yet, since it is easier to use good steel that is already with the right temper and strength to begin with.

V.


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

All we can do is all we can do. We have prepared as best we can and will continue to add things as money allows. However, we both grew up having to "make do" it's not as hard as you might think and sometimes it is fun and rewarding. It is the people around us that don't have a clue that concern me. When we hit bottom the only way to go is up and the American people have always risen to the occassion. Meanwhile Prepare for the worst and Pray for the best.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

I do love my little Yammar tractor for discing my garden. But it's the only mechanical peice of garden equitment I have. It uses about 2 gallons of diesel a year. Diesel stores well, in fact I finished off some I bought back in '09. I figure 20 gallons would hold me for 10 years. It may not hold up that long. And as good as condition as I have my soil in, I could do it by hand in a 5 days to get ready to plant. Normally takes about 4 hours. Have overhead sun-lites in the cabin. Have a fairly large supply of lamp oil. Have cistern with handpump. Have well and am wanting to retrofit a handpump to it.
If it gets bad I can make it, no walk in the park, but I can survive. Tried it out this past spring/summer. Ate off the retreat only for 3 months. Only missed beef, as I don't have the room for pasture for them. Between garden, blueberries, scoupprnongs (frozen from last yr), pears, peaches, catfish, bream, chickens, turkeys and wild caught hogs, I ate pretty good. Not a big varitiy, but all fresh and homegrown. 3 months worth.

That's what I feel folks should be working at. Trying to become as self sufficient as possible. JMO.

Jimmy


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Jimmy24 said:


> I do love my little Yammar tractor for discing my garden. But it's the only mechanical peice of garden equitment I have. It uses about 2 gallons of diesel a year. Diesel stores well, in fact I finished off some I bought back in '09. I figure 20 gallons would hold me for 10 years.


Me too... I have a Yanmar YM2000 and a Kubota B6100. I have enough motor oil and diesel to last for 10 years easy. I do NOT have fertilizer enough to grow some really good crops... I am trying very hard to get some good compost piles going (slow process) and also hope to use manure to help plants grow.


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## Jimmy24 (Apr 20, 2011)

LincTex said:


> Me too... I have a Yanmar YM2000 and a Kubota B6100. I have enough motor oil and diesel to last for 10 years easy. I do NOT have fertilizer enough to grow some really good crops... I am trying very hard to get some good compost piles going (slow process) and also hope to use manure to help plants grow.


Though I have compost piles that are nearly 8 years old, I still use some commerical fert. I have found that 8-8-8 stores well and when used with good compost, compost tea, and chicken/turkey manure it doesn't take much. I have 18 buckets deicated to triple 8. For my garden, about 15,000 sqft, that is close to 20 years worth. Keep working on those piles, they will come along.

Jimmy


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## whome (Oct 6, 2011)

We all agree that finite things will be used up, but as Naekid stated, what we have stored away will hopefully help us transition if the situation is a long term one. I have to agree with all the posters that state knowledge is our best bet. I personally prefer books to electronic based knowledge, but that's just me and probably a generational quirk . I have been facinated with obsolete skills since I was a child. I have learned and am still learning many of them. I really think it's important to actually have some personel time using those skills, because I have found out, it really takes a long, long time to get a sweater or pair of socks to use when you have to start at the beginning, such as delivering a lamb you want to add to your spinning flock. Or, growing everything you need to make a kickass spaghetti sauce. There's a reason why the old time villages had a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker...no one can do everything. There is not enough hours in the day, enough days in a week, enough weeks in a month to produce everything a person/family needs when you have to do it with old time skills. I guess the moral to this story is, choose, learn, and develop at least two skills that you can trade for other goods/service.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

IMO, when the catastrophe happens, there will be a few months to a year of having to avoid everybody else. Then folks will emerge that made it and want to continue to make it. Then, defensible communities will have to be built, to deal with the roving war lords. It is even on the movies. They use professional advice when films are made. Mad Max, Postman, and many other films portray how people are after a collapse. Some want to sustain, and build farming and fortification. Others want to just take from the ones that are trying to have civilization.

I have been coming up with ideas. One thing I am sure we will need is trade. Because as most of you mentioned, things will wear out, and we can't pack everything. We will need a way to measure in order to trade. Scales will be a very important part of commerce. I still have my grandads scales, four sets I got out yesterday. If you are a producer, or part of some producers, then you will be wanting to trade a lot of what you have for something smaller and valuable to accumulate wealth.

I try to drill it in the young mens heads that I have contact with, how to make gunpowder. Where does sulphur come from? What is salt peter? How much charcoal, sulphur, and salt peter, or what ratio, to make gunpowder? Keep it moist while you are mixing it. It is not that hard to make a gun, especially a match lock. Tools and knowing how to use them is very important. Who has the best weaponry will be the force to be reckoned with. Knowledge is power. Whoever is a doctor will want to be in your settlement if it is the safest settlement. Doctors and engineers are not fighters, and if you can provide a safe community with protection, you will be living in the best community, and you can trade with outsiders for the engineering and medical services. All we have can be built again, but we have to hang on to the information, and hang on to civility. 

I have never been in trouble. Live a calm life. But in that situation, I will be a no tolerance type that wont put up with BS. Everything will have to be dealt with surely and swiftly. Get your bluff in on them so they won't have theirs on you.


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

whome said:


> There's a reason why the old time villages had a butcher, a baker, and a candlestick maker...no one can do everything. There is not enough hours in the day, enough days in a week, enough weeks in a month to produce everything a person/family needs when you have to do it with old time skills. I guess the moral to this story is, choose, learn, and develop at least two skills that you can trade for other goods/service.


No wonder we can get so overwhelmed sometimes. I think we DO try to do everything, learn everything, make everything. Sometimes I just can't keep up. What w/ the regular house chores (which includes gardening, harvesting, canning, etc...) I haven't found the time to learn other skills. Still haven't made cheese, my own vinegar or yeast yet, or my own homemade cough syrup, etc... Still wanna make homemade soap, but.... where do you find the extra time? Love this post, maybe I'm not gonna be able to do everything.


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## Salekdarling (Aug 15, 2010)

Possumfam said:


> No wonder we can get so overwhelmed sometimes. I think we DO try to do everything, learn everything, make everything. Sometimes I just can't keep up. What w/ the regular house chores (which includes gardening, harvesting, canning, etc...) I haven't found the time to learn other skills. Still haven't made cheese, my own vinegar or yeast yet, or my own homemade cough syrup, etc... Still wanna make homemade soap, but.... where do you find the extra time? Love this post, maybe I'm not gonna be able to do everything.


You're still way ahead of me friend. I haven't grown a garden yet, learned to can, make soap, cheese, vinegar, yeast or homemade cough syrup. I'm just a wee baby when it comes to learning. For me, It's just a matter of having money to start out with. Can't have canning supplies or seeds without money first. :gaah:


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## Beeorganic (Oct 11, 2011)

Possumfam said:


> No wonder we can get so overwhelmed sometimes. I think we DO try to do everything, learn everything, make everything. Sometimes I just can't keep up. What w/ the regular house chores (which includes gardening, harvesting, canning, etc...) I haven't found the time to learn other skills. Still haven't made cheese, my own vinegar or yeast yet, or my own homemade cough syrup, etc... Still wanna make homemade soap, but.... where do you find the extra time? Love this post, maybe I'm not gonna be able to do everything.


I agree that trying to do everything can be appear to be overwhelming at times; However, it can be done. One doesn't garden, harvest, and can in the wintertime, correct? It would make logical sense to me to do the things you mentioned during those months. Soap, cheese, vinegars also make great holiday gifts too. Accomplish two tasks at once? Learn a new skill and wow your friends and family with homemade presents.


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## Possumfam (Apr 19, 2011)

Beeorganic said:


> One doesn't garden, harvest, and can in the wintertime, correct?


Well, yes and no. Living in FL, we have a longer growing season, and we do have a fall/winter garden planted. We will not necessarily can, but will freeze or more preferably dehydrate the harvest. Over the winter months (hunting season) I will be canning meat. I also can a few "unpopular" things that go on sale during the holidays, like store bought cheese (it doubled in price from $2.50 a lb in Nov/Dec to $5.00 in July.) We also have extra responsiblities that started earlier this month for the rest of the year - harvest festival, a couple of plays/programs, a couple of dinners, etc... for the church. Maybe Jan or Feb when things start slowing down. :dunno:


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## Clarice (Aug 19, 2010)

Winter is not a slow time for us either. As things go on sale in the warmer months such as chickens, roast etc. I freeze them. Then when I have time in the winter I can these good buys. Also I believe with the addition of our oversized greenhouse this year we will have more produce to process. Also use winter months to catch up on my sewing, organizing and reading, and there is always firewood to split and critters to care for. There is never a dull moment or time to be bored at our house.


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## stayingthegame (Mar 22, 2011)

the winter was when people made new clothes and furniture, repaired things that were broken. all the things you don't have time for during growing season. many places had school days were set around harvest and planting times because the kids were needed for helping. so now that it winter, sit back, read a book, teach the kids, weave a blanket, stitch a quilt, make a shirt, build a table, and enjoy the spare time.


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## k0xxx (Oct 27, 2011)

My family preps for a worst case scenario of a long and deep depression. Anything worse than that, and all bets are off.

We raise chickens, pigs, and fish. We garden using only compost and heirloom seeds, and produce enough for only about 50% of our current needs, but that number is increasing yearly. Our food storage would supplement our home grown food for several years easily, but we would really have to increase the yield of our garden before we could be totally dependent on it.

My grandparents told me about growing up on a small farm during the Depression. They always has food, although it may have been plain and simple. They bartered for most of their needs, but struggled to scrape up enough money to pay the taxes on their farm. That is the one reason that I have put back silver and some gold. Yes, it's true that you can't eat silver and gold, but as long as there has been any measure of civilization, the metals have had value (AND there have been taxes). I suspect that they will still have value in the future in anything short of a Mad Max type situation. There will probably be someone willing to pay, whatever currency is in use, for these metals. That currency can then be used to pay taxes.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

I do think something most important we have lost and need to gain back is natural healing. Housewives alone used to know all sorts of things about their local plants, muds, etc..to keep infections at bay, as well as what local herbs could be used too. We had lost all of this with modern medicine and of course the constant whispering of the medical community about how unsafe these remedies were and so people abandoned them (great $$$$ benefit for big pharma and doctors though).

I have admired people who know this and defy the medical establishment by using it and proving them wrong. I myself have wanted to find that ultimate book to help me get started (since classes are not locally available and I know no one who could teach me).

I can agree that long term is something needed, but also know I have come across many here who have been thinking about it as well, seed storage, learning how to collect seeds in late summer and fall...how to use the older implements when there is no longer electricity. Even something as simple as starting a fire without matches....many people would not be able to do it. 

I learned a lot early in life, thanks to where I was raised and thanks to my parents and lots of post hippy era teachers. I know many have not had this and the most basic thing seems impossible. I do believe many do not think survival without the modern day tools and gadgets is even possible.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

HoppeEL4 said:


> I do think something most important we have lost and need to gain back is natural healing. Housewives alone used to know all sorts of things about their local plants, muds, etc..to keep infections at bay, as well as what local herbs could be used too. We had lost all of this with modern medicine and of course the constant whispering of the medical community about how unsafe these remedies were and so people abandoned them (great $$$$ benefit for big pharma and doctors though).


there is a LOT of _useless_ folklore to dig through to get to the nuggets, but if you are _lucky_ enough to avoid any major pitfalls (common sense *does* help  ) many think it's worth it... I don't knock 'big pharma' tho, either, sure a lot of pills cost fractions of a penny to make... but that *FIRST* one cost 4 BILLION dollars to research  a lot of people forget that part


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## kejmack (May 17, 2011)

HoppeEL4 said:


> I do think something most important we have lost and need to gain back is natural healing. Housewives alone used to know all sorts of things about their local plants, muds, etc..to keep infections at bay, as well as what local herbs could be used too. We had lost all of this with modern medicine and of course the constant whispering of the medical community about how unsafe these remedies were and so people abandoned them (great $$$$ benefit for big pharma and doctors though).
> 
> I have admired people who know this and defy the medical establishment by using it and proving them wrong. I myself have wanted to find that ultimate book to help me get started (since classes are not locally available and I know no one who could teach me).


I don't knock drug companies. I have a chronic illness that used to be fatal. Now it is a manageable disease thanks to medications. Secondly, a lot of homeopathic remedies can be fatal. When I was pregnant, someone gave me a cup of chamomile tea for the nausea. Turns out that chamomile is a relative of ragweed. The allergic reaction almost killed me and the baby.


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## HoppeEL4 (Dec 29, 2010)

Homeopathy is far from cure-all's and can be dangerous when someone unexperienced messes with them. I am an advocate for myself and others to become knowledgable, then use it when it is practical. There are plenty of herbs that used in too large a quantity, or misidentified, can do harm or worse. Some common medications (like drugs for heart problems) should never be mixed with certain herbs or even supplements. This is where learning is key.

Things such as infections (mild, not someone who appears septic), mild respitory illness, congestion, stomach upset....you get the drift, maintenance and prevention is what I believe herbal and homeopathic remedies are best used for. I do not hate the big pharmacies, but in the last 30 or so years, doctors and big pharma have had a habit of throwing pills at every little thing and not accepting other avenues for healing. Of course diseases such as diabetes, heart problems and such should never be treated as though they were simple illnesses, but there are also supplements that can help in the maintenance along with medication. One is taking two teaspoons of plain cinnamon daily, with a glass of water to help you swallow it down, will help with glucose levels.

I was lucky enough to have one doctor be reluctant to prescribe antibiotics for a sinus infection long ago, and he suggested heavy fluids, lots of vitamin C in chewable form, Echinaccea tea. I did this and my body fought off the infection (I was very uncomfortable, could not bend over without head hurting). He stated that many bacteria have become resistant to treatment. 

I followed this course and although it took a little longer, it went away without antibiotic treatment. I used to get sinus infections numerous times a year, now after over a decade of not taking antibiotics for simpler infections such as this, I notice it, and treat myself at home, and within days, it goes away, however, the exception is sinus infections....I have not had one in about 6 years.

I was surprised by this doctors insistence on not giving out antibiotics unless it was serious. It proved to me that in the past it was over-prescribed and the body, unless you had a compromised immunity, can be trained (in our modern day and age, it is more like re-trained) to heal on it's own.

I do stand my ground, big pharmaceauticals have become lobbyists against supplements and herbal supplements being sold on the market as they are now. They have lobbied our government to use the FDA to tighten their grip on the supplement industry. If they are not threatened by more people using these instead of their medications, then why would they lobby for this? I believe these moves were based on profits. The people who study diseases and work on medication research are not the ones running these companies, CEO's are, and they need to show profits to investors. I applaud those researching for the good of all.


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