# Please critique my plan



## Joe5858 (Oct 29, 2014)

Context:

I live 20 miles from midtown manhattan and work in manhattan. My wife and soon to be born baby stay at home. I am concerned with an airborne illness, chemical attack and nuclear attack. I think biggest risk is an attack while I am at work.

Basic plan:

I do not think we will be mobile with the baby so my plan is to have good enough gear to get home, have one adult be able to get outside if needed in contaminated air and keep mom and baby at home in a sealed room with plastic sheets. i will have a decon room for the adult that needs to go outside before returning to the sealed room.

Gear:

- I currently own DuPont tyvek 1414 suit, disposable elastic and A. Sundstrom H05-5421S Pandemic Flu Respirator Kit with SR 100 S/M Silicone Half Mask, P100/HE Particulate Filter and Prefilters with extra filters of Sundstrom H02-3721 SR 232 Organic Vapor/Acid Gas Chemical Cartridge OV/SD/CL/HC/HF AND SR 64 Protective Tyvec Hood

I am told this may not be good enough for most chemical attacks and i should upgrade to this:

-Lakeland tychem level b br400 suit
-3m powerflow face-mounted 6900 pf papr

My questions:

1. Am i ignorant or is it reasonable to assume that mom and baby will be safe in a sealed room (with air hand crank) in most chemical and airborne viruses? Is it a mistake to have only one expensive papr mask? I do not see a reason to buy two if baby wont be safe outside. We are not going to ditch the baby.

2. do you agree that i should upgrade to the papr and chemical suit? if you could, please mention your credentials when answering this question. i hope that is not offensive but i do not want to risk my familys safety because of bad advice.

3. i have no experience with chemical suits or paprs. Space and the ability to walk 20 miles is an issue with my get home bag. Are these two items reasonable to be in a get home bag in this scenario?

4. Can anyone suggest literature or online resources on how to properly seal a room or make a decon room? thank you.

Thank you.


----------



## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

I am no expert, but welcome to the forum.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Welcome. I also live in metro Manhattan and have twice evacuated NYC, once for 9/11, and once due to a blackout. I'll leave the issues of suits and masks to others, but if you are worried about Ebola, you'll want disposable PPE, not just one. If you are in a suburban area, those who stay inside should be safe but if someone is going in and out, they could bring the virus in, so you want to arrange for long isolation.

Back to exiting Manhattan. Manhattan is an island so at the first hint of a problem you want to be on your way. You can always come back tomorrow if it is a false alarm. The authorities will screw up transit, closing tunnels, etc. Power outages will mess up train service. On 9/11 and during the blackouts, the ferries did an excellent job of getting people to NJ. If you want to get to CT but have an out to NJ, or vice versa, my advice is get off Manhattan and then figure it out from there.

Exactly how you get home will depend on what is working and what isn't and whether you have communications or not. Be flexible.

Unless you are in worse shape than an old geezer like me, you can walk 20 miles if you have to. You may not like doing it, but you can. More likely you'll find yourself with some oddball combination of walking, mass transit, hitched rides, etc.

As for what you need in your GHB, you'll want shoes you can walk in, WATER, and some energy bars. Wear clothes you can be caught outside in for whatever time of year it is. In the winter that means being ready for a snowstorm. In addition, I recommend carrying a small AM/FM radio. Any news on what is going on and especially areas that are safe vs. areas to avoid, will be invaluable. Expect cell phone service to be out.


----------



## Tribal Warlord Thug (Jan 27, 2009)

we are fortunate enough to be able to have a decent setup per each of our vehicles and in our home so i figured i'd dig out what i carry in my lil truck daily...
heres a run down on some of the PPPE that i keep close at hand...

(2) C420 powered air-purifying respirators (cbrn application)
1/2 dozen tyvec full coverage suits
1 pair of onguard bio/hazmat protective footwear (hazmax 87012-os:ultra-grip sipe)
i pair ess profile nvg with clear,tinted and flash lens
1 case of n95 respirator masks
2 cases of nitrile disposable gloves (always use 2 pair at least)
full ems/emt med gear including o2 and lifepak 500 aed unit

plus throw in our bunker and wildfire gear i'd say we're purdy much setup for most encounters any more far as outside of the home goes....inside the home contains almost twice what we carry in our trucks less the turnout and wildfire gear....

here's some pics to let ya see what might be appropriate to yer situation.....
































magus will probably be able to show ya a bit more on the ppe stuff then i can but hell....its a good start 

as far as your plan goes.....you at least have a plan which puts you ahead of 80% of all the rest so i have no negetive critique for ya other than the livin' in the city thing but that's a choice we all have to make regarding our situations.......i got the hell out of the city years ago and will never regret it.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Interesting, but unless the OP is a masochist he uses mass transit to get in and out of Manhattan daily. Also, if you have a car in NYC when a disaster strikes, it is unlikely you'll get it out of Manhattan. Best bet is abandon the vehicle and make you way across the river any way you can.

The gear would be useful at home.


----------



## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Scary place to live. I'd rather live in a safer place next to bears and wolves.

I might settle for an inflatable boat and an outboard. A foldable bike or motorcycle to go with it would be a plus.

As mentioned above multiple changes of PPE. If you are bugging in then plenty of food, water and security.

Twenty miles is a long hike, how do you plan to get home?


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Caribou said:


> Scary place to live. I'd rather live in a safer place next to bears and wolves.
> 
> I might settle for an inflatable boat and an outboard. A foldable bike or motorcycle to go with it would be a plus.


Here in NJ we have bears too. 

http://www.northjersey.com/mobile/n...tim-killed-by-mauling-autopsy-finds-1.1123061

The motorcycle won't do much for you in a disaster here. The main routes in or out are mostly tunnels and they close at any loss of power. Winter is also an issue as is the very heavy car traffic. I do see a few foldable bicycles which can be handy on surface streets. That really depends on your specific commute.

My own commute is typically with a small backpack.


----------



## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Geek999 said:


> Here in NJ we have bears too.
> 
> The motorcycle won't do much for you in a disaster here. The main routes in or out are mostly tunnels and they close at any loss of power. Winter is also an issue as is the very heavy car traffic. I do see a few foldable bicycles which can be handy on surface streets. That really depends on your specific commute.
> 
> My own commute is typically with a small backpack.


I'm thinking about something small enough to fit in the inflatable and provide transportation after you reach the mainland. For two adults you would need a pair. Primarily this would be for getting out of Dodge but would be of help getting home.

Walking or pedaling a bike while dressed in PPE is going to be problematic. You better have a good way to get fluids without breaking your barrier.

http://www.diblasi.us


----------



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Joe5858 said:


> Context:
> 
> I live 20 miles from midtown manhattan and work in manhattan. My wife and soon to be born baby stay at home. ...


I am not familiar with Manhattan so I brought up a satellite view. Looks like you might have a river/canal to cross to get home? Bridges could be choke points and/or death traps.

Work has limitations on weapons on company property?

Is there a storage unit facility or facilities close to your route home?

Let's figure 2 miles a hour walking. Take you 10 hours to get home. If you have to bug to home at the end of the day then you'll need a place to spend the night.

The Get Home Bag would be light in weight and have the bare necessities (including a 2-way radio).

I'd rent a storage unit located about half way home and on the work side of any rivers/canals.

Storage unit would have cot, food, water, weapons, seasonal clothing, heater, LED flashlights, a second GRMS radio (or better yet Amateur 2 meter), backpack, etc (my major get home supplies). I could spend the night comfortably and finish the trip in the morning.

If the river/canal currents allow then a expendable self inflating dingy for the crossing just before daylight.

Storage unit design might even allow me to place a small concealable solar array to keep stored batteries and radio charged.

By radioing the wife she'll know I made it to the storage unit and by the time of day of my call when she can expect me to be home.

I figure it would be better for the wife to spend a little extra time without me (she could be sealing up the house) then me to try and rush home unprepared and never make it.


----------



## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

I believe if you live in any big metropolitan area and there is an NBC attack you will have a very short life expectancy.
If the event doesn't kill you the roving hoards will.
If you have anything some thug wants they will take it.
I was in LA when the Rodney King verdict was reached.
We were on the freeway when it was announced.
Managed to get back to the hotel safely.
Took almost 2 days to get a flight out.
Airport was closed because of the smoke from all the fires.
My coworker had to have his brother drive down from Oakland and get him.
Big cities and disaster are a bad combination.


----------



## Joe5858 (Oct 29, 2014)

Ok thanks guys


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> Storage unit design might even allow me to place a small concealable solar array to keep stored batteries and radio charged.


In this case, I'd rather recommend high quality Lithium batteries that have a really long shelf life (10+ years)... or at least Duracells with dates printed on them.


----------



## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

We have lived in "Ground Zero" places ourselves and we're glad to be far away from them now. However, even where we live now we are far too close to a major North-South freeway and the potential for bad things to happen. The only thing we can do is to go further into the woods to our West if need be. The whole scenario of trying to escape is disturbing because we pretty much understand how tough it would be at our ages and as far as that goes it would be tough for people at any age. All I can say is do your research so that you don't waste money or time on things that won't help. The simplest things can trip you up, like having enough food and water on hand, which if you have watched the news after major weather events, food and water always seem to be an issue.


----------



## Tucker (Jul 15, 2010)

backlash said:


> I was in LA when the Rodney King verdict was reached. ...Airport was closed because of the smoke from all the fires...
> Big cities and disaster are a bad combination.


Make that anywhere around big cities too.  I worked 30 miles east of downtown LA when the verdict was read. Even there, the hoodlums were up to no good. I had to pass through Pomona to get home and there were roving bands of people lighting fires and stealing things (including an entire cash register - not just the cash!), including breaking into occupied cars to get personal property in broad daylight. I called in sick to work the next day because I didn't want to become a target (lone female target). Thinking that the area around my home was safe, I went grocery shopping. To this day, I can remember a woman in the store screaming at the top of her lungs "get your groceries before they burn down this store too!!!"

You just can't predict the severity of the reaction to people caught in the middle of an emergency. The idea of having a storage unit between you and home might work but I wouldn't bet on being able to access it. We once had all of our possessions in a storage unit while we tried to figure out where to move to back in February 92. There was a freak heavy snowstorm and the storage place was completely closed because it was located on a hill. They wouldn't let anyone in, not even walking. I'm not sure what other option you would have though if you didn't have everything with you in a pack.

Are you allowed to have bear spray in NY? I would keep a big canister of that with me since I'm pretty sure that you can't legally carry a gun.

It's quite a predicament, especially for those that haven't even considered their plight ahead of time.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

Well, the OP isn't worried about spontaneous civil unrest and the last time we had that on a grand scale in NYC was the 1977 blackout and that was in Bensonhurst, not Manhattan.

During 9/11, the closest event to the scenarios he was worried about, people were too busy worrying about themselves, or just trying to absorb what was happening, to be a problem. The trick then, and I believe in his scenarios, is to get out of Manhattan and home to the family before the crowd. Most of NYC isn't going anywhere for a few days because, first they live there, and second it is hard to get out.

Personally I don't drag around a set of PPE every day, but I do have a bandanna that can be used as a mask, particularly if soaked (WATER again) if there is an air problem, and a pair of gloves to protect my hands. Whatever clothes I am wearing can be left outside when I get home if they have become contaminated. If that isn't enough to protect me from an airborne threat then I will have finally been in the wrong place at the wrong time once too often. If Ebola gets loose, I'll either telecommute or retire.

I think a lot of people don't quite get the scale of things in the NYC area. 20 miles away is enough to be in a nice suburban area, so I wouldn't expect the LA riots. Also, with the scenarios the OP is concerned about, people are going to avoid being out when they could be sheltering.

Forget carrying a weapon in the NYC area. It is more likely to get you in trouble with the JBTs than aide you in an emergency. By all means have what you need at home, but forget CCW. As I have said here before, the 2nd amendment is dead here.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

For those interested in the bears in NJ, here's a recent YouTube film from about 30 miles west of NYC.


----------



## RevWC (Mar 28, 2011)

I am grateful not to live in a big city anymore..

My opinion is to escape the city prior to any problems..good luck..


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

RevWC said:


> I am grateful not to live in a big city anymore..
> 
> My opinion is to escape the city prior to any problems..good luck..


After 9/11 I figure I already failed at escaping prior to any problems.


----------



## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

Tucker said:


> Are you allowed to have bear spray in NY? I would keep a big canister of that with me since I'm pretty sure that you can't legally carry a gun.


If bear spray is illegal get a can of wasp spray, the foaming stuff
Long range and suppose to be almost as effective on people.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

backlash said:


> If bear spray is illegal get a can of wasp spray, the foaming stuff
> Long range and suppose to be almost as effective on people.


If I was close enough to a bear to use either one I've blown it.


----------



## Tucker (Jul 15, 2010)

This may not address your questions directly but I like the information in Ragnar's Urban Survival: A Hard Times Guide to Staying Alive in the City. You might see if a library has the book before you invest in it.

If you look at this list on Amazon, you might find something that fits your needs.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

backlash said:


> Long range and suppose to be almost as effective on people.


"Berryman's B-12" carb cleaner spray works a little better yet.


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

LincTex said:


> "Berryman's B-12" carb cleaner spray works a little better yet.


Sorry, but if you are close enough to a bear to use anything that comes in a spray can, you are SOL.


----------



## Joe5858 (Oct 29, 2014)

thank you. i am going to stop monitoring this thread now.


----------



## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Joe5858 said:


> thank you. i am going to stop monitoring this thread now.


Well, I do hope that some of the information (at first) was indeed helpful!

Threads do tend to drift after a while, naturally...


----------



## Geek999 (Jul 9, 2013)

LincTex said:


> Well, I do hope that some of the information (at first) was indeed helpful!
> 
> Threads do tend to drift after a while, naturally...


"Drift"? That's an understatement.


----------

