# Homes of the future maybe????



## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Something to think about guys,who knows this may be the future in the after shtf world.
http://realestate.msn.com/how-to-build-a-tiny-house-for-dollar30000


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

*I love these!*

I have been in love with these for a few years. I have thought they would be wonderful for bugging out. The challenge would be being able to get it where ever you are going with the right vehicle and fuel. You can make them with all the utility hook ups. Some people put solar on the roof. I have seen one with a 300 gallon water tank.

The possibilities are endless. Typically they are around 8 feet x 20 feet. I have seen photos of some that are 30 feet long.

What I like about these over RVs and mobile homes is that they can be built with quality, sturdy materials. Chip board, particle board, and glued saw dust has always bothered me as a building material.

If you have a trailer, you can get the frame shored up to make it sturdy and build from there. In America, you could build one these for very little money if you were willing and able to use recycled materials, from Craigslist, The Recycle Store (Habitat for Humanity), and more. Really, the bulk of one of these could be built with wood from pallets for the person who had no other resources.

I have thought that a small version could be made by homeless people with bicycle tires (maybe more than 2) instead of a trailer frame and small enough that they could be pulled by the owner. There are actually a couple projects of this going on in a couple cities. I believe in people building their own, much like Habitat for Humanity, Hand ups, not hand outs.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

I love looking at these tiny houses too, I find the use of space, the built ins, & the dual purpose details very interesting. However, I have a hallway bigger than 8x20 & I can't imagine living in that. Especially anywhere where there was a long, cold winter where I'd be spending large amounts of my day cooped up. I think I'd go crazy! :gaah:


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Wife and I looked hard at this idea when considering a BOL. My first question was, "How is this different from an RV?"

Answer: Basically, it IS an RV. With differences. A 'tiny home' can be built however you want to build it, if you do it yourself. If you hire someone to build it, or buy it ready-made, not so much.

"Tiny homes" are outrageously expensive. Compare them to the cost of, say, a good quality prefab storage building (7.5' x 15' @ $1,658) plus the cost of a utility trailer (8' x 16' @ $2238) to set the shed on.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_149795-7512...Ntt=shed&pl=1&currentURL=?Ntt=shed&facetInfo=

http://www.johnsontrailerco.com/tandem_utility.php

Okay, we have spent about $3,900 and have most of a "tiny home". So doesn't THIRTY GRAND sound like it is a BIT overpriced??

I thought so. Result was we bought a well used 28 foot Coachmen RV trailer for $1,800. Yes, it has taken some renovation. Yes, the roof will leak if left alone for a year or two. So, we are building a pole shed to cover it for about the same cost as the trailer.

Our conclusion is that at least the ready-made "tiny homes" are a MAJOR ripoff.


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## Ezmerelda (Oct 17, 2010)

My question is, where are you going to store your long term storage foods? Or six months extra water?


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Ezmerelda said:


> My question is, where are you going to store your long term storage foods? Or six months extra water?


I have always considered this as well. I think that is going to be kept separate from your tiny home.

If you have a bug out location, a root cellar or shed of some sort that is prepared in advance of SHTF.

I also thought of buying a smaller moving truck to use to move it, and keeping my preps in the back of the truck.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

Ezmerelda,

Our answers for those things are to put in a root cellar and a cistern. If you tried to make all that portable, it's going to be huge and probably take a convoy of semi's.

We thought the cheapest answer to build a very small retirement/bugout place would be a portable building about 8' x 24', set up on a concrete block foundation and plumb in a toilet and a sink. No tub or shower--wash standing by the sink. Solar powered lights and fridge. Hire somebody to deliver the building to the site with a rollback truck and slide it onto the foundation. 

Then insulate and finish the inside at our leisure. Add a porch on the south side and put the solar panels on top.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

weedygarden,

We are using the truck idea, but only bought the "box" bed. Actually, it was a 'reefer' box, 8' x 8' x 20'. Since it had once been refrigerated, it is well insulated. Also has a serious lockable back door. It won't keep canned food from freezing here in Indiana, so we still need the root cellar. The truck box will be used for a workshop and general storage for lawn and garden stuff.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

What it comes down to is: how much of your current home you actually use?

Case in point. Last week I spent a week with my younger sister, her two boys ( 13 and 10.. or somewhere in there) and my BIL, just turned 50. They have a 5,800 sq ft home in West by god Virginia. He burned over 7 full cords of wood to SUPPLIMENT his electric heat. The reason he likes his larger home is when his parents come to visit, once every two years. He can't put them in an 8' by 10' "closet", they need a large bedroom! MY sister dislikes the HUGE home as there is more to clean and more to stock with furniture.

They laugh at me having a double wide and using only half of it. We had a nice discussion about it last week. I talked with my BIL about how much of the actual home he uses. Not all that much. Most is just there, in case it is needed. Most of mine is there, and not needed!

Folks need to actually take a realistic look at their living spaces. When you come home, where is the space you actually use, where do you walk. Do you come into a 1,000 sq ft living room? How much of that do you use or walk into every day? Do you take 30 steps to get from the couch to the refrigerator? Do you take 30 steps to get from your living room to your bedroom? Why??? Have most folks ever been in an RV? The space is small yet very dedicated. Your emergency supplies are stored in an out building, not heated. Your living space is small yet heated. 

So, take step back and look at the area you actually use. Why is that 52" TV 16 feet away when an 32" TV could be 10' away and still look just as large? Why do you have to take 30 steps to get to the kitchen when 5 might do? We see and hear on TV that more is better, why is that? Who does it benefit? A 1,000 sq ft living room is much more than anyone needs. At least from my perspective.


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## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

Valid point Woody. We have downsized from our 6 bedroom, 3 bath double wide now that our girls are out of the house. We built a 2 bedroom, 2 bath house that is totally wheelchair accessible on 81 acres and have been here for 4 years now. We are talking about selling and moving farther back on my land. It will be smaller as I want solar, a water well and non electric or gas heat. However, I need it to have room for my piano (play for church and organ at another church) and my queen size bed. I need a bigger pantry. He wants a storm shelter which is okay if I can store food stuffs easily. I know smaller is economical but this will be my final home. Our first was a log cabin we built in the 70s. Can't get those kits at that price anymore. Market may not allow us to sell. We will see!


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## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

Plan is by selling and paying off debt, we want to build as much as we can with too much debt. So far from road, electic will cost a fortune, if I can convince him on solar. He is a contractor of the old school and is hard to convince that some new will pay for self. Have always had a gas stove, but last power outage showed me that oven is electric start, period. Just thinking.....


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

txcatlady said:


> Plan is by selling and paying off debt, we want to build as much as we can with too much debt. So far from road, electic will cost a fortune, if I can convince him on solar. He is a contractor of the old school and is hard to convince that some new will pay for self. Have always had a gas stove, but last power outage showed me that oven is electric start, period. Just thinking.....


RE: electric start gas oven

Are any of the new stoves and ovens made without electric start? I know some people won't/can't/don't do used, but I wonder if there are some older stoves that were well made that have the spark starter that could be used?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

weedygarden said:


> RE: electric start gas oven
> 
> Are any of the new stoves and ovens made without electric start? I know some people won't/can't/don't do used, but I wonder if there are some older stoves that were well made that have the spark starter that could be used?


Use a match instead?


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

Why not a match? Back in the 1970's I had a brass stick match container on the wall by the wood cook stove and the gas range. I never thought of anything else. You need to fire up the gas stove, turn the gas on, light a match and light the stove, just the way it was. Society today has become too much of an instant gratification thing. You want something you need it NOW!!! You do not want to spend two extra seconds lighting a match to light the stove!!! I turn the knob on the stove I want it to light immediately! I hit the remote control button to turn on the TV I do not want to wait a few seconds for it to come on I WANT IT NOW!!!!! If I walk into my home and it is chilly, I turn a button to get it warm. Who wants to wait an hour to fire up the stove, feed it and WAIT for it to get warm!!!???!!! That is barbaric! If I put a seed in the ground you mean I will have to wait - and ATTEND - to a plant before I can eat it??? Why? I can go to the store and BUY anything I like or to a restaurant and order anything I want that instant, THAT is what a civilized society is about.

It is really sad what most of society has become; consumer based consumption. I admit I have an electric stove. I admit I have electric heat. I admit I enjoy walking into the house, flipping a switch and having light. Could I go back to the other life? Yup, with no problems. Could most of society do it? Nope.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> Use a match instead?


LOL! I thought of this as I was writing this post, and I should have included that in my post! Yes, matches were used before and even now, but the person said the electrical starter wouldn't work when the power was out.

Woody, yes! Agreed!

No one answered my question though. I have used gas stoves, decades ago, but am not sure of what it is that causes it to start. Is it a sparker or an electrical starter?

This is one of the reasons to store matches and lighters in our preps. I always watch for things like this when they are on sale, in the sale bins in the back of grocery stores. A couple years ago I found some being closed out in one store, therefore being reduced in price.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

I don't believe you can make the new gas ovens work by lighting them with a match. When it reaches temp it shuts off and would have to be re-lit when the temp drops, that would be hard know without a temp gauge built in non electric, also the gas only comes on thru an electric solenoid so it would not work, The top burners can be manually lit. The answer is using a battery backup system like the they use in pellet stoves.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Many years ago, when we had one of our huge snow storms in Colorado, the electricity was off in some areas for days. A friend had a gas fireplace, but it was worthless, because it needed electricity to start.

So in the mode of preparedness, is a generator important to start gas stoves, fireplaces and furnaces?


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

weedygarden said:


> RE: electric start gas oven
> 
> Are any of the new stoves and ovens made without electric start?


The spark start takes VERY little energy to make work. A small inverter and a small 12 volt battery will take care of that problem easily.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

LincTex said:


> The spark start takes VERY little energy to make work. A small inverter and a small 12 volt battery will take care of that problem easily.


If you know how to hook it up!

It is good to know and another prep to consider!


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

txcatlady said:


> Plan is by selling and paying off debt, we want to build as much as we can with too much debt. So far from road, electic will cost a fortune, if I can convince him on solar. He is a contractor of the old school and is hard to convince that some new will pay for self. Have always had a gas stove, but last power outage showed me that oven is electric start, period. Just thinking.....


We have a NG/propane cook stove that has an electronically controlled oven that uses a hot surface ignitor, I'd really like to change it over to manual with pilot light. Thing is the computer puts up a fault code and the dang thing beeps so we haven't been using that oven. My wife uses the microwave/convection/vent fan combo to bake with but if or when things go shtf we'd like to have the propane oven working. I'm going to check on going around whatever is causing the fault and maybe I can install a mechanical temp control to feed those burners. It's a drop in type stove so I might have a hard time finding another that may be totally mechanically operated, I may look into that, sooner than later of course.


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## txcatlady (Sep 26, 2013)

I used a match to light stove burners without a hitch. The oven has a digital touch control for oven. With no electricity. No stove. I could hold a match forever and nothing will happen. Was a real eye opener. I would rather have an ole fashioned gas stove! Got husbands attention too. He doesn't know if you can buy a gas oven today that has no electricity. Will have to research that!


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

txcatlady said:


> I used a match to light stove burners without a hitch. The oven has a digital touch control for oven. With no electricity. No stove. I could hold a match forever and nothing will happen. Was a real eye opener. I would rather have an ole fashioned gas stove! Got husbands attention too. He doesn't know if you can buy a gas oven today that has no electricity. Will have to research that!


That's what this hyper-dependence of all things electronic/computer driven has laid on those of us that like mechanical, fixable things. Thankfully those of us here can pretty much figure other ways of cooking than just putting a finger on a touch panel.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

A normal electric stove uses a huge 240 volt plug, but gas ranges and stoves use plain old 120 volts. My Gen Elec gas cooktop has a normal plug (just like any other kitchen appliance) that will plug right into any standard outlet as well as any US market 12vdc to 120vac inverter. I don't have a gas oven, but after quick google search I found its the same way: a normal, everyday electric plug; No voodoo involved.

My cooktop can light with a match, but an oven cycles on and off to regulate temps. In that case, leave the inverter running while using the oven - - hopefully the timer/clock will function as well. Since the sparker uses such a small amount of electricity, one standard car battery would probably run your oven for a month (if you don't use the light inside).

Hooking up an inverter is no more difficult than fastening a seatbelt in your car.


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

What happened to pilot lights for ovens? Did our beloved and concerned Government decide that having a pilot light used too much energy or emitted too much CO2 and causes global warming? Or did the gas stove lobyists decide that a pilot light never needs replacing so everyone needs an electronic ignition system that will need to be replaced every few years? I swear, the more society progresses the further we fall behind.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

The oven problem is the need for an electric HEATER to open the gas safety valve. It isn't just an igniter problem.

The gas safety valve was invented to prevent being suffocated by gas if the pilot light went off, back when a pilot light was the "instant on" of the day--a tiny flame burned all the time to light the burner when the gas was turned on. The problem was, if a gust of wind came through the house, the pilot light (tiny gas flame) could be blown out and that gas kept trickling into the house. Almost lost my parents that way before I was born. 

So, safety valve was invented, which used a thermocouple to sense the pilot light. If the pilot light went out, the thermocouple cooled and closed the gas valve entirely. Today, the same valve is used, but instead of a standing (always on) pilot light, it uses an electric heater element to heat the thermocouple and open the main gas valve. That heater takes a fair amount of electric power, like half a toaster worth, or something like that. It would require a good sized battery bank and inverter to supply it, and it has to be hot all the time the oven is being used. 

I have one of these and plan to use a tin box atop the wood stove for baking if our power goes out. Don't want to rely on a generator.

I suppose you could find an old gas stove that has pilot lights to get past the problem. Our old RV has one like that, made in the 1980's. A "standing pilot" is a gas hog over time. Better to leave the oven pilot unlit until you need it, and uses matches on the top burners to save gas.

Lighting a gas oven with a pilot light consists of turning on the oven knob, lighting the PILOT with a match, then with the pilot going, it will heat the safety valve thermocouple and allow it to open. When it opens, the oven flame will be lit by the pilot.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

LincTex said:


> A normal electric stove uses a huge 240 volt plug, but gas ranges and stoves use plain old 120 volts. My Gen Elec gas cooktop has a normal plug (just like any other kitchen appliance) that will plug right into any standard outlet as well as any US market 12vdc to 120vac inverter. I don't have a gas oven, but after quick google search I found its the same way: a normal, everyday electric plug; No voodoo involved.
> 
> My cooktop can light with a match, but an oven cycles on and off to regulate temps. In that case, leave the inverter running while using the oven - - hopefully the timer/clock will function as well. Since the sparker uses such a small amount of electricity, one standard car battery would probably run your oven for a month (if you don't use the light inside).
> 
> Hooking up an inverter is no more difficult than fastening a seatbelt in your car.


Since we've been using matches to light the cooktop I could probably pull the pulse spark ignitor that's used to light them and connect it into the relay that's used for the hot surface ignitor, pull it and put a spark gap in it's place. Don't know why they didn't do that in the first place considering the hot surface ignitor is resistance and uses a lot more current to glow hot enough to light the propane. I'm thinking that the fault code could be a thermal sensor that's acting up. I know that the computer temp control uses so very little current that a solar system wouldn't be drained for a long time.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

machinist said:


> The oven problem is the need for an electric HEATER to open the gas safety valve. It isn't just an igniter problem.
> 
> The gas safety valve was invented to prevent being suffocated by gas if the pilot light went off, back when a pilot light was the "instant on" of the day--a tiny flame burned all the time to light the burner when the gas was turned on. The problem was, if a gust of wind came through the house, the pilot light (tiny gas flame) could be blown out and that gas kept trickling into the house. Almost lost my parents that way before I was born.
> 
> ...


Well dang it! There goes my great idea, however I do have an RV stove that has the thermocouple/pilot system, Hummm? Have to look into using those parts and just go all mechanical.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

weedygarden said:


> I have been in love with these for a few years. I have thought they would be wonderful for bugging out. The challenge would be being able to get it where ever you are going with the right vehicle and fuel. You can make them with all the utility hook ups. Some people put solar on the roof. I have seen one with a 300 gallon water tank.
> 
> The possibilities are endless. Typically they are around 8 feet x 20 feet. I have seen photos of some that are 30 feet long.
> 
> ...


 I agree with you on this one ,many of those already build are build with cheap materials that eventually will breakdown and rut, the new dome homes made of fiberglass and foam are the future,http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fiberglassdme+homes&qpvt=fiberglassdme+homes&FORM=IGRE or http://www.domekits.info/preview_005.htm


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

How about this for a backup stove/oven. Sells for $179 at Sportsman club, is stainless steel and connects up to propane tank. It's portable and you can take to your BO location, or camping....


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Viking said:


> ...Have to look into using those parts and just go all mechanical.


I am sure it is possible to convert any modern stove.

Sometimes it just takes a little ingenuity!


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

http://archedcabins.com/gallery.html

These cabins are around 5K. I not good with the computer so you will have to type this site in..


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

helicopter5472 said:


> http://archedcabins.com/gallery.html
> 
> These cabins are around 5K. I not good with the computer so you will have to type this site in..


Those arch buildings look like a good plan for quick set up and reasonable price a few changes (rock wool insulation and tin interior sheeting they would be pretty much fire proof if the floor was.


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## Dixie (Sep 20, 2010)

*The tiny homes are cute and for some people they might just fit their purpose. In case of a bugout, I would have too many people.....approx. 15.
I have been toying with this idea: 
I have property in the N. Ga. mountains....no buildings, just woods. I wanted to put this on the backside of the property:

http://www.classicmanor.com/products/cabins/new-day/

Machinist, you may like this. A 16x16 is $10,299. 16x20 is $11,899 16x24 = $13,499 and on up to a 18x36 for $19,899. I want the 16x20, then at one time they were offering a free upgrade so I could have gotten a 16x24 for the same price. They build it on your property but it's just the cabin. No wiring, plumbing, insulation...I would need more windows and differnet doors but that's minor. You could "camp" in it while you were doing all the punch out work on it. 
My problem is I want a concrete basement that is mostly underground. That's where I would store the supplies. But then if I spent the money for the basement, why not just make it bigger and not buy the cabin? I could use the cabin as a decoy and have a rootcellar/storm/fallout shelter hidden beside the cabin and just have a tunnel to it. Any opinions?*


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

If I was building a bug out or remote shelter it would be designed site specific and blend in as much as possible. fire resistance should be a huge consideration in a bug out building, as well as being made from locally available material, Adobe, cob, stackwall, wattle and daub have been around for centuries, stick frame balloon (conventional???) construction has only been in use for about 100 years, it fits the throw away mind set very well.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

I hate those micro homes. They're useless.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Tirediron said:


> If I was building a bug out or remote shelter it would be designed site specific and blend in as much as possible. fire resistance should be a huge consideration in a bug out building, as well as being made from locally available material, Adobe, cob, stackwall, wattle and daub have been around for centuries, stick frame balloon (conventional???) construction has only been in use for about 100 years, it fits the throw away mind set very well.


I have thought about how important building fire resistant or fire proof could be in SHTF if fires were to burn out of control. In one of the big Colorado fires, one home that did not burn in the midst of the fire zone was built with fire resistant materials.

I also agree about building with locally available materials.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

BillS said:


> I hate those micro homes. They're useless.


Better than living in your car... or a cardboard box

...and can be built for way less than many folks say 
(like $30,000? get real!)


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Most people now days would never consider living in a tiny house. It is just the opposite of most people's lifestyle. Right now most people have just too much 'stuff' but in an after SHTF situation most would find they really need very little 'stuff'. And in the northern areas the smaller your house the less you have to heat. Like stated above substantial mass buildings materials can make a big difference in helping keep the house temperature stable.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Yesterday I was talking to a sales person at a lumber supply business that we frequently by building supplies and in asking him about the price on fiberglass insulation I happen to mention that it seemed like the price had gone up quite a bit since the last time we got some and he told me that everything is going up. He told me about a project he had priced out at the start of figuring what he needed, at that time he said it was $26,000, but by the time he was ready to do the project the price of material had gone to over $40,000. He told me he's not going to do the project the way he designed it originally because he can get by with doing the project on pier blocks and not having it go through on the permit garbage because it will be considered temporary, which will also change how the county taxes it. A really big factor here in timber country, even with all the logging that's been going on due to the forest fires, is that so many saw mills and plywood mills have shut down and torn up that building supplies are being shipped in from other states and countries, this means that even though the cost of that lumber may be lower the shipping adds so much to the cost that it's more expensive than the local lumber was. So many projects we've had in mind for longer term plans are ending up in somewhat of a panic, do now, situation. If we don't spend the money now we figure that the cost of material may double by the time we thought we could be doing it. It's getting scary in so many ways, especially with all the other preps needed for what ever lays ahead.


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## lazydaisy67 (Nov 24, 2011)

I could probably live in that little house ALONE for about a week and then I think the walls would get WAY too close for me.

I do, however like the idea of something like this:

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8476&stc=1&d=1398432392


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

lazydaisy67 said:


> I could probably live in that little house ALONE for about a week and then I think the walls would get WAY too close for me.
> 
> I do, however like the idea of something like this:
> 
> http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8476&stc=1&d=1398432392


I have a photo album from my grandmother who came from Norway and I think there is some pics of homes that have board and bat with sod roofs, your pics here have a likeness to those.


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

Tirediron said:


> If I was building a bug out or remote shelter it would be designed site specific and blend in as much as possible. fire resistance should be a huge consideration in a bug out building, as well as being made from locally available material, Adobe, cob, stackwall, wattle and daub have been around for centuries, stick frame balloon (conventional???) construction has only been in use for about 100 years, it fits the throw away mind set very well.


The way I've seen licensed builders here in S.W. Oregon put stick frame homes together with lousy studs and rafters full of knots, sheathed with wafer board, I can certainly agree with you. Now if you were to look at what I build, it's a whole different thing. When I have pulled some of my building apart to add rooms I have a heck of a time pulling things off because originally I made it to last a very long time. My neighbors stick built home on the West side of us was built in 1899 and it's very substantial, the only problem with it is it needs insulation put in the walls and floor. As to fire resistance we both have metal roofs which cut down our circumference of fire fuel reduction from 100 ft. to 50 ft. in compliance with the rural interface agreement with our counties fire protection agency. I've looked at a lot of alternatives for building materials and for us stick built is the most affordable. I have a lot of extra insulation that I have done to our home including a double North wall, this makes for very little heating needs in winter and even in 100 degree summer days we stay 10 to 20 degrees cooler than outside without any air conditioning. We use wood heat except for an electric forced air heater in the bathroom and on average only use about two cords of wood even on very cold winters.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Tirediron said:


> Those arch buildings look like a good plan for quick set up and reasonable price a few changes (rock wool insulation and tin interior sheeting they would be pretty much fire proof if the floor was.


Wouldn't the steel studs "suck" the heat out of the building during winter?


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## Viking (Mar 16, 2009)

TheLazyL said:


> Wouldn't the steel studs "suck" the heat out of the building during winter?


Depends on what's used as an outer sheathing, otherwise it could be much like aluminum window and sliding door frames. I've seen ice built up on the inside of aluminum sliding door frames that was around two inches in an apartment we lived in just North of Denver.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Viking said:


> Depends on what's used as an outer sheathing, otherwise it could be much like aluminum window and sliding door frames. I've seen ice built up on the inside of aluminum sliding door frames that was around two inches in an apartment we lived in just North of Denver.


From the picture in the link...outside is covered with tin roofing material.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

Viking said:


> My neighbors stick built home on the West side of us was built in 1899 and it's very substantial...


I have heard stories of people trying to bulldoze an old home, only to push the entire house (intact) off of its foundation!


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

LincTex said:


> The spark start takes VERY little energy to make work. A small inverter and a small 12 volt battery will take care of that problem easily.


I have a propane stove, and a bbq lighter next to it just in case the power goes out no need for solar.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

helicopter5472 said:


> I don't believe you can make the new gas ovens work by lighting them with a match. When it reaches temp it shuts off and would have to be re-lit when the temp drops, that would be hard know without a temp gauge built in non electric, also the gas only comes on thru an electric solenoid so it would not work, The top burners can be manually lit. The answer is using a battery backup system like the they use in pellet stoves.


Correct, the oven safety valve needs heat from the oven igniter in order to open and let the gas out, the igniter is electric and there for needs a small amount of electricity (voltage),in order to work, simple repair but not something you want to tamper with. My replacement oven in power outs is my propane BBQ outside, I actually like it better than the oven, uses less gas, won't heat up the house and the aroma drives the neighbors crazy.:laugh:


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## Woody (Nov 11, 2008)

LincTex said:


> I have heard stories of people trying to bulldoze an old home, only to push the entire house (intact) off of its foundation!


Truth to that! I started my carpentry career remodeling older homes in NE PA. You sure can learn a lot about what works when trying to tear out something that was built over 130 years ago!!! A few well placed toe-nails beats the heck out of all the pneumatic nails in the world. And yes, before I was injured I built a few homes using them. You sure could slap up a fast home in the 80's using power nailers, but they were just as easy to tear apart to remodel.

Heck, those old cut nails were a son-of-a-gun to get out!!


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