# BOL distance?



## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

So I live in central MA, in the boonies. My house is on my town line, and my grandparents live across the street. They are animal farmers, owning pigs and cows. They have plenty of land, and grow there own cow corn and hay for the animals. When SHTF, I don't know if I would need to really leave. I have everything that I need close by. There are plenty of streams in the woods, with a larger river a few miles away. I know that I should have a BOL, but staying where I am seems much better than traveling. Opinions?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

I stay too if I was you.

I'd also have a Plan B just in case I was forced to move.

And a Plan C


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

My primary plan is to bug-in. There are places I can go if that becomes untenable. Perhaps a travel trailer and a piece of land or a friends place. If you have a friend that is into prepping perhaps he can be your bug-out-location and your home can be his. There are innumerable options for if you are forced out. Right now it sounds as if you have what many here are working towards.

Were I in your situation I would focus on eliminating debt, increasing security, and making sure I had enough tools, canning jars, spare parts, and rice or other things that I couldn't produce myself. Acquiring skills is another area of improvement that you might consider and if you have any cash left over some PM's would be a good idea.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

+1 for being out in the "boonies"!

If you live around Petersham, Hardwicke or Barre, you are in a good location.


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## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

Caribou said:


> My primary plan is to bug-in. There are places I can go if that becomes untenable. Perhaps a travel trailer and a piece of land or a friends place. If you have a friend that is into prepping perhaps he can be your bug-out-location and your home can be his. There are innumerable options for if you are forced out. Right now it sounds as if you have what many here are working towards.
> 
> Were I in your situation I would focus on eliminating debt, increasing security, and making sure I had enough tools, canning jars, spare parts, and rice or other things that I couldn't produce myself. Acquiring skills is another area of improvement that you might consider and if you have any cash left over some PM's would be a good idea.


I am 18, so debt isn't a problem for me, but might be due to college. I plan on practicing my fire making skills when I get time.


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## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

LincTex said:


> +1 for being out in the "boonies"!
> 
> If you live around Petersham, Hardwicke or Barre, you are in a good location.


Why are those good locations?


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

DarkEcho6 said:


> I am 18, so debt isn't a problem for me, but might be due to college. I plan on practicing my fire making skills when I get time.


Good for you. If you go to college make sure you will get a degree in something that people are hiring for. A kid we watched grow up got her four year degree and wound up making pizza for a living. Almost one third of those graduating from college can't find a job and they are stuck with massive student loans.

What do you like to do? What kind of things are you good at? What do you want to get your schooling in? Are these three answers similar and if not why not?


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

DarkEcho6 said:


> So I live in central MA, in the boonies. My house is on my town line, and my grandparents live across the street. They are animal farmers, owning pigs and cows. They have plenty of land, and grow there own cow corn and hay for the animals. When SHTF, I don't know if I would need to really leave. I have everything that I need close by. There are plenty of streams in the woods, with a larger river a few miles away. I know that I should have a BOL, but staying where I am seems much better than traveling. Opinions?


I am sure the 4.5 million of us who live in Boston and its Metro region will love coming to visit you if anything goes wrong!

There is a real trade-off between the the distance to your BOL...ideally 0 ft, and the distance to major population areas, ideally 500 miles. Many will say "well why don't you live at your BOL (making it a Bug in Location I suppose)?" The problem with that sentiment is that some of us can earn significantly more money in metro areas than in the boonies, potentially making it that much easier to prep. No matter the reason why you live in a high population density area, the fact is if you do, if you live on the East Coast or the West Coast there are too many people for the earth to support, particularly given the fact that no one has tired in the past four decades to feed the population locally. 72 hours into a disaster that hasn't been contained by MEMA or FEMA and which is not local those 4.5 million are going to start to get hungry and come looking for food. Even if you live in Pittsfield,137 miles might seem like a huge buffer zone, remember its only about 6 days hard hiking from Boston, and two days from Albany. You are also in the fallout zone of the Yankee Nuclear plant.

What I am trying to say is...have a plan B.


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## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

Padre said:


> I am sure the 4.5 million of us who live in Boston and its Metro region will love coming to visit you if anything goes wrong!
> 
> There is a real trade-off between the the distance to your BOL...ideally 0 ft, and the distance to major population areas, ideally 500 miles. Many will say "well why don't you live at your BOL (making it a Bug in Location I suppose)?" The problem with that sentiment is that some of us can earn significantly more money in metro areas than in the boonies, potentially making it that much easier to prep. No matter the reason why you live in a high population density area, the fact is if you do, if you live on the East Coast or the West Coast there are too many people for the earth to support, particularly given the fact that no one has tired in the past four decades to feed the population locally. 72 hours into a disaster that hasn't been contained by MEMA or FEMA and which is not local those 4.5 million are going to start to get hungry and come looking for food. Even if you live in Pittsfield,137 miles might seem like a huge buffer zone, remember its only about 6 days hard hiking from Boston, and two days from Albany. You are also in the fallout zone of the Yankee Nuclear plant.
> 
> What I am trying to say is...have a plan B.


I did some research on the nuclear power plants. I am right at the edge of the 50 mile radius of the plant in southern Vermont. If that plant melts down, then I will have to bug out to the east a bit. Maybe a one or two day hike at most. If I have any idea where the radiation is falling, I won't move at all. The wind is usually east to west.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

DarkEcho6 said:


> I did some research on the nuclear power plants. I am right at the edge of the 50 mile radius of the plant in southern Vermont. If that plant melts down, then I will have to bug out to the east a bit. Maybe a one or two day hike at most. If I have any idea where the radiation is falling, I won't move at all. The wind is usually east to west.


Are you sure about your local wind conditions? Typically wind is from the west to east. Fifty miles west I'd probably hunker down. Fifty miles east and I'd head north or south to get out of the plume IF I got notified immediately. Fifty miles is not far.

Were I fifty miles from a nuclear plant I would have iodine tablets and antacids. Next I would work on an underground shelter. A dual purpose shelter like a root cellar with enough room and supplies for the family for a couple weeks.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

If you do end up buying a second property to use as a BOL, try to buy something within a 2-3 hour drive from home. That will make it easy to drive down after work and comfortably spend a day or more working on the place. If it's much farther, the likelihood of you visiting it goes down and any structures are liable to be in disrepair if you actually have a need to use the place.


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## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

zombieresponder said:


> If you do end up buying a second property to use as a BOL, try to buy something within a 2-3 hour drive from home. That will make it easy to drive down after work and comfortably spend a day or more working on the place. If it's much farther, the likelihood of you visiting it goes down and any structures are liable to be in disrepair if you actually have a need to use the place.


That makes sense. My classes end around noon next year, so I will have time to work on something. I might have to 'borrow' some land if there is nothing available.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

You want to think at least an hour drive from every major population center, preferably in a direction people will not want to go because of difficulty, weather conditions, or natural obstacles, and in a region that most city dwellers will not think of as bountiful. Ideally you are looking for a population density of less than 50 per sq mile.

Last time I checked that means the northern Kingdom for you and me: Coos County, NH, Oxford County, ME or points north. Northern Vermont may be an option too but I think it's population density is higher than 50...


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> If you do end up buying a second property to use as a BOL, try to buy something within a 2-3 hour drive from home. That will make it easy to drive down after work and comfortably spend a day or more working on the place. If it's much farther, the likelihood of you visiting it goes down and any structures are liable to be in disrepair if you actually have a need to use the place.


I just read in the news that a log cabin was stolen!



> A log cabin that a family reported stolen was found Thursday in rural northeast Washington, authorities said.
> 
> Stevens County Sheriff Kendle Allen said deputies following a tip found the cabin Thursday morning about 10 miles from where it was originally built. Allen said the structure was placed on stilts and was sitting at the end of a private road in Springdale, Washington.
> 
> ...


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/04/1...at-family-reported-missing/?intcmp=latestnews


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## suzysurvivor (Apr 23, 2012)

we also live in the Boston Metrowest area and I do think that in a SHTF scenario, we are WAY too close to the city. So...we went farther away..north central Maine to be exact.

Land had to be affordable (and NOTHING in massachusetts fit that bill), within half a tank of gas drive, have a fresh water source and be remote enough to be as out of the fray as reasonably possible. We ended up with 26+ acres for $65k which isn't possible in Mass as far as I can tell. 

We then spent $8k to put up a small camp cabin where we can shelter if necessary. 

I think you need to have contingencies for both...bugging in and bugging out.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

suzysurvivor said:


> we also live in the Boston Metrowest area and I do think that in a SHTF scenario, we are WAY too close to the city. So...we went farther away..north central Maine to be exact.
> 
> Land had to be affordable (and NOTHING in massachusetts fit that bill), within half a tank of gas drive, have a fresh water source and be remote enough to be as out of the fray as reasonably possible. We ended up with 26+ acres for $65k which isn't possible in Mass as far as I can tell.
> 
> ...


We sound like we are in a similar situation. I personally mapped out four routes to my place up north and planned alternative BOLs along the way from friends houses where I can store a cache to camp grounds or buildings I could occupy short term if I needed shelter on my way to my BOL. Ideally I will drive and be there in half a day (driving slow and exercising convoy security). But if 495 is jamned up I am walking...15 to 20 days I figure. So having places I can plan to stop snd rest at would be important.

In MA for those of us in the Metro area don't forget the water. Even if your BOL is situated inland in Maine or NH access to a boat could cut your trip short and help you leapfrog the population dense Boston roadways. My thought is if I know the roads are jamned up, leapfrog north of Portland before heading west toward NH. Perhaps I will even be able to liberate a vehicle and find the roads passible.

If not my 15 to 20 day walk becomes more of a 5 to 10 day walk.


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## suzysurvivor (Apr 23, 2012)

our immediate plan of action is to get the hell outta dodge, so to speak. We plan to have a house up and running in Maine by the fall of 2016 and to be completely out of mass by the end of 2017 if not sooner.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I don't know how ya'll in the city do it. Places like Manhatten have a population density of between 71,000 and 72,000 people per square mile  I don't know what Boston's density is. There are about 646,000 people in that area!!!!In my immediate area, the density is about 70 per square mile and only because there is a small rural crossroad community nearby. And that density is dropping as people die out or move away. And honestly, 65-70 people per square mile seems too high for me when it only takes 1 to ruin your day. 

If a sudden, unexpected calamity really ever happened, with huge numbers of people trying to get out of urban areas at the same time, I can't even begin to imagine that. Heck, NORMAL rush hour traffic brings most cities to a stand still. And to walk out thru 3/4 of a million hungry, angry, panicky people on foot would be suicide. God help you


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

mike_dippert said:


> I hate living by farms.


Why do you hate living by farms?

The only problem I have with farms is the ones that do "no-till" -- i.e., spray herbicide to kill every living thing, plant GMO corn or soy, and continue to liberally apply Round-up every time any living thing shows its head. Even the raccoons won't eat the corn left behind in those fields.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

mike_dippert said:


> In my experience...
> ...my allergies are worse in farming territory.
> ...bugs are worse in farming territory.
> ...they are horrendous eyesores in the winter.
> ...


hmm...you got me thinking.

Wonder how we'll teach the milking cows to ride the elevator to the milking floor?

Wonder if the property taxes on a building will be less then farm land and maintenance cost will be less too?

Think of all the carbon emissions from trucks hauling manure away from the high rise cow palace.

High rise would work for egg production. Eggs could just roll from the 20th floor right to the loading dock!

Wouldn't the farm high rises need to be spaced apart so sunlight isn't blocked to the crops. Or just use artificial lighting powered by coal or nuclear?

Manure would have to be either hauled to the crop growing tower (more carbon emissions?) or made into Spam?


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

mike_dippert said:


> In my experience...
> ...my allergies are worse in farming territory.
> ...bugs are worse in farming territory.
> ...they are horrendous eyesores in the winter.
> ...


So.....what do you eat?


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I love living in farm country. Wouldn't have it any other way. Got a tiny farm myself.

LazyL,
I thought spam was already made of manure?


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

I just hope TSDoesn'tHTF before I live in my BOL permanently.Where I have my BOL is rural enough that we are far enough out from Nashville Tn,that it is too far away to walk. Bowling Green Ky is still a nice ride but a good "walk" so no worries there.People are close (I can see my neighbors yards), but we all have plenty of room and we are all of like mind as far as survival is concerned(We are "country folks")my 3 acre mini farm will take care of me and mine. I just always worry that I don't have enough time(or money) to get more things "in the ready". I want a deep well,tall fence,and a underground home,more supplies and more supplies..I'm always afraid my time will run out before I can get my ducks in a row. This is my sanctuary and my security blanket for me and my daughter,her family and my son lives just over the hill so we are all close. I even have a little extra room if anymore family shows up and brings their supplies and expertise to our very small community.My main problem I can't find anyone to do a [email protected]%m thing.I've paid to have my trailer wired 3 times,trim work done and floor laid(none of which is finished).Can you just see me trying to get an underground house done????So now you can see why I DO worry.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

mike_dippert said:


> Milk cows will never leave the milk machine. They'll wear VR helmets and walk around on a treadmill for exercise and think they're out in the field.
> 
> Monsanto will sign legislation defining a farm tower as infinite density land, and property tax will only be collected on the footprint rather than gross acreage of the building.
> 
> ...


Mike,
I don't know what you're drinking, but I gotta get me some of that


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## DarkEcho6 (Mar 27, 2015)

mike_dippert said:


> ...they are horrendous eyesores in the winter.


How are they eye sores in winter? I love winter landscapes, and fields are great because you can see where animals walk much easier. Plenty of uses for that.


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