# Can you rely on your gun?



## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

This might be a bit of a delicate topic, but it is something that got me thinking.

The recent Colorado theatre shooting could have been worse however the guy's gun jammed/failed. It was an AR15 (S&W M&P15) (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/334642/Rifle-failure-that-stopped-yet-more-Batman-carnage).

Just recently was the Oregon mall shooting, again with an AR according to reports, and again it malfunctioned/jammed.

Are these two cases of luck (for the potential additional victims) or a case of poor weapon maintenance or something else? If you need to legitimately use your weapon in a self defense situation (for sake of arguement, we'll say Red Dawn invasion if you need a scenario) do you have the expectation that it will just work? I know two isn't a statisical quantity and there is no data on the shooters abilities or handling skills, however it still made me wonder if there is anything more to the weapons failures beyond two tradgedies that could have been even worse.


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

It's a good thing those two did not train properly. There are many reasons that a weapon can malfunction. They just expected to pull the trigger and their weapons would fire every time. 

I shoot a lot and in my training I include clearing malfunctions. That is a vital part of training. When your life is on the line, you don't want to be holding a useless piece of steel. In a stressful situation, you revert back to your training or lack of.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Im not sure in the latest if it actually jammed. from what I hear it sounds like he had to change magazines and everyone is calling that a jam. wouldn't be too sure that was't the case in the other as well. What exactly the issues were is unlikely to be know by the unwashed masses. 

As for mine I trust them, I clean them, I maintain them. I shoot them or lately I shot them, and I am intimately familiar with all the ins and outs of my firearms, how to clear stoppages should they happen.


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## Bravo_12v (Dec 30, 2011)

Yeah in all honesty the AR-15/M-4 platform is very reliable more so if you actually have training behind it. As long as you do proper maintenance and checks on it then you should be find. I myself recently purchased a Sig Sauer M400 and am working with my wife to get her proficient in magazine drills, stoppage clearing, and marksmanship. Hope this helps, stay frosty.


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## LongRider (May 8, 2012)

Being absolutely positive that all my guns are 100% reliable at all times. I practice clearing FTF's regularly. A through cleaning and maintenance check are part of every practice or training session I do. Train, practice, maintain. Train, practice, maintain. Repeat


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

If you are a very casual shooter or a novice you acquire a gun and pop a few rounds down range. If it works, then it works. But if you are a professional or are serious about your craft, you need to take things to the next level. We start with weapon selection. That is too large of topic to cover here, but know there is a difference between say a Daniel Defense AR-15 and a Century AR-15. Next your weapon needs to be properly inspected, function tested and cleaned. Then it needs to be properly broken in, re-inspected and re-cleaned. When you are confident that the gun itself is mechanically sound, there are no suspect parts and it has proven itself reliable you can move on to the next stage; ammo selection. Many guns are ammo sensitive based on the variance of tolerances from manufacturer to manufacturer. You have to find what ammo works for your gun and if your ammo of choice runs smooth and reliable. Then it's time for training, presuming YOU have already received skills training the training I am talking about is running drills and putting that gun to the test. This means short and long range accuracy, reliability under stress, reliability under varied physical conditions, reliability with debris or other contaminants, durability when dropped or thrown, etc. Then we begin running forced stoppage drills, malfunction drills, mag changes, transition drills, etc., etc. Re-inspected and re-cleaned yet again. Now you have a battle rifle (or pistol) that is ready for service use. Your weapon will most likely function flawlessly in any conditions with proper maintenance and care. But if it doesn't, you will be prepared to get it back into the action quickly through prior training, familiarization and muscle memory. The gun itself is only half the equation.


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## pawpaw (Dec 21, 2011)

Given that they're now reporting that the AR in the Oregon mall shooting was stolen, if it did jam, it could have been exactly as posted above; un-familiarity with the weapon.
Incidently, they're saying he stole it from a friend. Piece of work, eh? The big three networks are grudgingly mentioning that he stole it. They need to focus on 'assault rifle!' .


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## TNFrank (Dec 2, 2012)

Currently I only have one gun, a Glock G19 and it's 99.9% reliable(nothing is 100%). Still not made my mind up as to what long gun I'll get. Either build an AR, buy an AKM or just stick with a good bolt action set up in a Scout Rifle config. Either way I want to get a good pump shotgun first then I'll worry about a rifle of some kind. It always pays to do research and read up on a few reviews before you buy a gun just to see if it's decent or not.


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## webeable (Aug 29, 2012)

Here is a thought some ammo in some guns don't work well, I have a box of shells that jam in the 380 1 out of 3 time is the norm. Other ammo work flawlessly.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

_"Can you rely on your gun?"_

Absolutely.


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## gaspump86 (May 5, 2012)

He had a 100rd drum. 
Could that have malfunctioned?


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## CulexPipiens (Nov 17, 2010)

jsriley5 said:


> Im not sure in the latest if it actually jammed. from what I hear it sounds like he had to change magazines and everyone is calling that a jam. wouldn't be too sure that was't the case in the other as well. What exactly the issues were is unlikely to be know by the unwashed masses.
> ...


You and the rest have all brought up good points in your replies. In your response about magazine changes it reminded me of my SR22. First time shooting it, maybe the third or fourth magazine change I pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Took a few moments until I realized that the magazine could actually be inserted backwards just fine and of course that's what I had done! Doh!

Now that I'm aware of that idiosyncracy of that pistol I have never done it again. I can easily see someone with a stolen gun, who isn't familar with it, pretty easily messing it up.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

William Hickock had two identical colt .44 cap and ball revolvers.

They were older weapons such as were issued to calvary troops during the Civil war.

They were difficult to maintain and load as each individual round and powder charge had to be hand loaded and a cap placed on the nipple over each cyclinder position.

Failure to properly clean the cyclinders, could cause more than one shot to discharge at a time resulting in a catistrophic failure of the weapon.

Excessive dampness or humidity could allow the black powder to fail and the weapon would misfire.

Hickock never upgraded to the more modern version of the cartrage fireing revolver.

However, Hickock never had one of his weapons to fail him.

However careless he was in his other dealings, he was said to carefully clean and inspect his revolvers every morning right after fireing them both tokeep his marksmanship keen.

The reason he carried two was so he would have twelve shots without having to reload.

Hickock had three things in his favor A good accurate weapon that he was totally familiar with, dailey pratice and absolutly no hesitation to pull the trigger.

So, the purpose of this story is to make a point. It isn't about having the latest modle of AR 15 with all the rail mounted gear . Consistant deliberate behaviour and resolve go a long way.

In the end, Hickock was killed by a kid with no skill or notable attributes what so ever.

He just walked up behind Hickock and shot him at point blank range in the back of the head.


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## truecarnage (Apr 25, 2010)

Any gun from any manufacture bar none can malfunction and as mentioned before so can the other components like ammo and mags. If you shoot enough for long enough you will Run into that one component that will fail to function. After all a gun is causing a controlled explosion then forcing an over sized Piece of metal down a metal barrel & in lots of examples is routing hot high pressure gasses back into the works to cycle another round that is slamming metal parts together. All these functions can help lead to part stress and failure


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

Yes gaspump86, increased capacity magazines and feeding devices have a much higher failure rate than normal capacity versions. Good catch.


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## partdeux (Aug 3, 2011)

if it doesn't go bang each time, it goes back to the mfg


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

I wrote my last agency's firearms policy. They did not allow backup guns. My policy did, for these reasons:
- Squib or overcharged duty loads blocking a pistol barrel or blowing a gun up
- Failure of super-duper retention holsters--trapping your sidearm in the holster
- Catastrophic firearm malfunction
- Stronghand injury

I have seen Hornady duty ammo squib loads, Safariland triple-retention holster lock up during a police academy class (instructor could pick up cadet by the pistol locked in the holster), SigPro slide ejected forward during quals, and seen the injuries of Tyson Butler.

Like truecarnage said, there's no perfect firearm/ammo combo.

I think the moral of the OPs story to us is... if you run a long gun, have a sidearm and know transitions. If you have a pistol, consider adding a backup. Preferably using the same magazines.


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## Jarhead0311 (Sep 17, 2010)

The first shooter had a 100 round drum which are famous for not feeding well. The second was changing mags, he may have been panicked and screwed up or just had trouble with a rifle platform he had never used before.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Fn/Form said:


> I wrote my last agency's firearms policy. They did not allow backup guns. My policy did, for these reasons:
> - Squib or overcharged duty loads blocking a pistol barrel or blowing a gun up
> - Failure of super-duper retention holsters--trapping your sidearm in the holster
> - Catastrophic firearm malfunction
> ...


I never would use a High level retention holster either mostly I wanted to be able to get it out with the weak hand if I was injured but later after having made that decision and explained it to the cheif (He agreed) we had a qual range failure of a high level retention holster I forget which brand. It was one that required a certain twist to the draw. A piece of crud pebble or somthing had gotten in the holster and was preventing the pistol from twisting to release. I don't trust them When I replaced my first duty holster due to wear i did allow myself to be talked into a level two (I think) retention holster that had a extra latch on the thumbsnap. I musta burned a thousand rounds and alot of home dry practice working with that holster before I was comfortable enough to actually swap out my ragged worn NOn retention accumold holster.


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## TNFrank (Dec 2, 2012)

Sorry, but Wild Bill carried a pair of '51 Colt Navy Revolvers in .36cal, not 44cal. He was in the habit of reloading them each and every morning with fresh powder, balls and caps.


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

See. Wimpy 9mm will get you killed.

(J/K. 9mm Glocks all the way.)


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> I never would use a High level retention holster either mostly I wanted to be able to get it out with the weak hand if I was injured but later after having made that decision and explained it to the cheif (He agreed) we had a qual range failure of a high level retention holster I forget which brand. It was one that required a certain twist to the draw. A piece of crud pebble or somthing had gotten in the holster and was preventing the pistol from twisting to release. I don't trust them When I replaced my first duty holster due to wear i did allow myself to be talked into a level two (I think) retention holster that had a extra latch on the thumbsnap. I musta burned a thousand rounds and alot of home dry practice working with that holster before I was comfortable enough to actually swap out my ragged worn NOn retention accumold holster.


1. We do not have a weak hand. We have a dominant hand and a non-dominant hand. 20% of our training is with the non-dominant hand.

2. We wear our back up guns on our non-dominant side in case of a dominant side injury or issue. We also wear one spare magazine opposite our normal mag carrier.

3. The only good retention holsters on the market are made by Safariland, none of which require a twist. The only ones that I know of that do are low bid junk by Uncle Mikes and Bianchi. I have used Safariland since day one, going from a Level 1, to the 295, to the SLS to the much more modern and fast ALS Level 2. Buy a good retention holster, train with it properly and it will never fail you. I have the same ALS system for my carry guns, my duty rig, my thigh holster and my back up gun.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I stand corrected*



TNFrank said:


> Sorry, but Wild Bill carried a pair of '51 Colt Navy Revolvers in .36cal, not 44cal. He was in the habit of reloading them each and every morning with fresh powder, balls and caps.


I stand corrected regarding the caliber and the model.

He got the name "Wild bill" from a newspaper artical calling for his resignation after he wheeled , dropped to one knee and shot his deputy dead as the deputy was running up behind him to back him up during a gunfight.

The Editorial ventured that he was just too wild to be a marshal.


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## Dakine (Sep 4, 2012)

LongRider said:


> Being absolutely positive that all my guns are 100% reliable at all times. I practice clearing FTF's regularly. A through cleaning and maintenance check are of every practice or training session I do. Train, practice, maintain. Train, practice, maintain. Repeat


I was FORTUNATE enough to have bought an ammo can of 500 reloads from the gunshow that jam about 30% or more.

I practice FTF when I shoot IDPA because I specifically use those reloads on purpose. I know for a FACT they will jam. It would take some work to duplicate that on purpose, but someone could do it... I consider that box of ammo to be a gold mine as far as skills preps are concerned.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

When I was a deputy way back in the 90s, we were required to draw and fire our S&W 686 with either hand from our strong side holster.

We had 30 seconds to draw from the dominant side, fire six , reload and fire six more. All 12 hits to a silouet at 25 feet were required.

We then were required to repeat the same draw, fire , reload and fire again offhand, with all hits at 25 feet , one handed with a one handed reload.

We did this once per month.

Our holsters were the retention holsters available at the time and required you to unsnap the strap and tilt the weapon to the rear to draw it from the holster.

A lot of training was retaining the weapon and reholstering the weapon without looking at the holster. that was a lot harder that drawing the weapon.

After all the only intelligent place to carry your handgun to a gunfight is in your hand not your holster.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

CulexPipiens said:


> This might be a bit of a delicate topic, but it is something that got me thinking.
> 
> The recent Colorado theatre shooting could have been worse however the guy's gun jammed/failed. It was an AR15 (S&W M&P15) (http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/334642/Rifle-failure-that-stopped-yet-more-Batman-carnage).
> 
> ...


I run a M&P among other things and put a lot of lead through it, and to be honest I wish mine would jam more often so I could get more practice clearing jams. Granted, I keep her clean and load the mags with care. Artificially simulating jams is usually what I have to settle for!


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## TNFrank (Dec 2, 2012)

BillM said:


> I stand corrected regarding the caliber and the model.
> 
> He got the name "Wild bill" from a newspaper artical calling for his resignation after he wheeled , dropped to one knee and shot his deputy dead as the deputy was running up behind him to back him up during a gunfight.
> 
> The Editorial ventured that he was just too wild to be a marshal.


Yep, some drunk was shooting at a dog, he went to check it out and when his Deputy came running up behind him he turned and shot before he looked to see who it was. He was never the same after that. 
People talk about handgun "stopping power", it's all hogwash. NO handgun round is a man stopper, it's all about shot placement. Wild Bill's .36cal Navies had about the same power level as a modern 380acp and he never felt under gunned because he knew how to shoot them and how to hit with them. 
Also, on a side note, if you can get a hold of a book called "Triggernometry" it's an excellent read. I checked it out of the Library a few years ago and read it, couldn't hardly put it down it was so good.
http://www.amazon.com/Triggernometry-Gallery-Gunfighters-Eugene-Cunningham/dp/0806128372


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## DJgang (Apr 10, 2011)

We shoot our AR15s about every month, well along with the others that we lost in the canoe accident... Anyway, I hope we can rely on them but I also hope that we never have to find out. 

As for the jamming of those two cowards? I like to think divine intervention on that one! 

The only one we've had keep jamming was my Ruger 9mm, when we first got it, get to looking and there was a small burr, so we did some rubbing and it hasn't happened again.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

They probablly didn't tap the mags to rear seat the rounds and they likely did not have any practice poping the mags into the action with sufficent force.

If you have never done this under stress you won't get that mag in and snapped sufficently. Looks like the mall shooter's mag fell back out.

They picked up a full mag off the floor.


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## suasponte2 (Jan 24, 2012)

gaspump86 said:


> He had a 100rd drum.
> Could that have malfunctioned?


Those 100 rd drums are c-mags.....we had them issued to us and they always jammed. Lesson learned was that we kept them in the team room and never used them for real world operations. Even the USGI aluminum mags have issues unless they are upgraded. We've found, just like the rest of our sister services that the p-mags work best.


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## Glock4myEMT (Dec 15, 2012)

Yes, i put my faith in God and in two guns. S&W .38+p bodyguard and Glock 21. Practice, cleaning, good ammo and remembering you can't call back a bullet ( breath and scene safety ).


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## unioncreek (Nov 30, 2012)

When the security company my son worked for bought new pistols they would shoot them without cleaning until the reached 500 rounds. If it failed to work right they returned them to the manufacturer.

Bob


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

Without a doubt. I don't own jammers.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Both shooters were not actual gun owners. One of them tried to go to a range to practice and the people at the gun range denied him entry because they thought he was crazy. Oddly they were the only ones that caught on that the guy was nuts. 

Beta mags are touchy. Everyone who has experience with them knows this. The sad thing is that people in the USA want to take gun away from gun owners when the mass murderers themselves are not gun owners and know next to nothing about guns.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

There are a few different companies making drum magazines for the AR now, but none of them are what I would consider to be reliable. Even then I believe he fired more than 75 rounds until it failed to eject. A trained operator would have been able to quickly clear the the malfunction but like Canadian said this guy did not own guns and had no really experience. Just like in every mass shooting and the inevitable Monday morning quartbacking, many things went wrong that led to this tragedy. And while access to firearms is one of them, it was not THE issue. Unfortunately the liberals live their lives with some kind of tunnel vision and think it is only the gun's fault.


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## Hoze928 (Aug 14, 2012)

I understand the need / want for larger mags but for myself I've always been more comfortable with the 20 round mag. I have never had an issue with one and the weapon just feels more right in my hands with the 20. I do own 30 round mags but they pretty much stay in the gun safe. As for you LEO / Swat guys what do you guys use or prefer?


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## mojo4 (Feb 19, 2012)

I absolutely love and trust 30 round magpul p-mags. I have a bunch and they never have jamming issues so far and I've used them often. 3 thumbs up for magpul mags.


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## BullDozer (Jan 1, 2013)

I can trust my 870. Built like a tank.


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## Cabowabo (Nov 6, 2012)

As long as you take care of your gun it will take care of you. So my answer to that is yes I will trust my weapon when I need it. 
The Big question is not will the gun work, but will you have the will to use it. All these people going out buying AR-15's that don't know how to care and use them. They are more of a threat to themselves than someone else.


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

my immdedaite home Defense Gun is a Ruger GP which is close to reliable as can humanly be IMO.
I have shot thousands and thousands of round through GP100's ( after I decide on them as my "standard sidearm") and never once had a malfunction of the weapon

Once the round didnt ' go off but in a revolver all I ahve to do is pull the trigger to get to the next one.

As for rifle (where the real combat power lies) I agreeAmmo is important but not all of us can afford premium loads for all our firing.
So I practice with my 2 most common rounds weekly.

I trust all but 2 of my firearms (and they are emergency reserve)


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

> As for you LEO / Swat guys what do you guys use or prefer?


I have had great success with Magpul Pmags, Lancer Warfighters and USGI mags with Magpul springs and self-leveling followers. But really I have only had a few mags I did not care for or would not feed reliably. The older Gen1 Tapco mags were problematic (but that was resolved in later product mags and the new Gen 2 mags) and some of the Canadian Thermold mags have issues too. But that is because the Canadians decided to use an inferior polymer versus the zytel that Thermold uses. Ironically the 20 round Thermolds made in Canada did not have the same issues.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

BlueZ said:


> my immdedaite home Defense Gun is a Ruger GP which is close to reliable as can humanly be IMO.
> I have shot thousands and thousands of round through GP100's ( after I decide on them as my "standard sidearm") and never once had a malfunction of the weapon
> 
> Once the round didnt ' go off but in a revolver all I ahve to do is pull the trigger to get to the next one.
> ...


BlueZ, I understand that, when shooting a revolver, if you have a misfire, you can continue to fire by rotating the cylinder, but if that round has a slow cook-off, when it does fire and it is not lined up with the barrel, you would have major (possibly deadly) consequences. At minimum, it could cause irreparable damage to the revolver. I have seen rounds do a slow cook-off that tool over a minute. I am not including you in this group, but many people do not know how to deal with misfires or slow cook-offs safely. I've seen people just remove the round and throw it on the ground. At that point I usually move away quickly and seek cover...just in case


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## Fn/Form (Nov 6, 2008)

Startingout-Blair said:


> BlueZ, I understand that, when shooting a revolver, if you have a misfire, you can continue to fire by rotating the cylinder, but if that round has a slow cook-off, when it does fire and it is not lined up with the barrel, you would have major (possibly deadly) consequences. At minimum, it could cause irreparable damage to the revolver. I have seen rounds do a slow cook-off that tool over a minute. I am not including you in this group, but many people do not know how to deal with misfires or slow cook-offs safely. I've seen people just remove the round and throw it on the ground. At that point I usually move away quickly and seek cover...just in case


Louis Awerbuck says revolver failures are usually jams; and that jams in revolvers are not as easily remedied as the problems a semi-auto may have. He strongly recommends semi-autos over revolvers.

On the flip side, semi-autos have their own issues, and some people can't or realistically won't master them.

Really, if you choose to carry a gun... seriously consider carrying TWO. Back up guns make sense, especially if they can share the same magazines/loaders.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Also*



Startingout-Blair said:


> BlueZ, I understand that, when shooting a revolver, if you have a misfire, you can continue to fire by rotating the cylinder, but if that round has a slow cook-off, when it does fire and it is not lined up with the barrel, you would have major (possibly deadly) consequences. At minimum, it could cause irreparable damage to the revolver. I have seen rounds do a slow cook-off that tool over a minute. I am not including you in this group, but many people do not know how to deal with misfires or slow cook-offs safely. I've seen people just remove the round and throw it on the ground. At that point I usually move away quickly and seek cover...just in case


I have seen a situation on the range where I was training someone who had a 38 special revolver.

She had some reloaded ammo to practice with .

There were several misfires where the round just did not go off at all but there was a good dent in the primer.

Eventually she had a round just pop and it sounded like just the primer and I immediatly stopped her from fireing the next round.

This reload had a primer but no powder charge. The bullit had traveled into the barrel but had stopped about half way through the barrel.

If she had fired another round, she may have had a catistrophic failure when the second bullit entered the obstructed barrel.

We threw away the rest of her reloaded ammo.

There is a misconception that revolvers are inherantly safe but no weapon is totally safe.

A tap rack manuver will clear 98% of a semiautomatic pistol's problems but you can still have a dangerous failure with any weapon.

Once a round that has failed to fire is removed from the weapon, it can be tossed into a metal trash can or barrel. If it cooks off outside of the weapon the brass will fly and the projectile will remain where it is.

The brass doesn't have the weight or mass to penitrate a metal trash can.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Startingout-Blair said:


> BlueZ, I understand that, when shooting a revolver, if you have a misfire, you can continue to fire by rotating the cylinder, but if that round has a slow cook-off, when it does fire and it is not lined up with the barrel, you would have major (possibly deadly) consequences. At minimum, it could cause irreparable damage to the revolver. I have seen rounds do a slow cook-off that tool over a minute. I am not including you in this group, but many people do not know how to deal with misfires or slow cook-offs safely. I've seen people just remove the round and throw it on the ground. At that point I usually move away quickly and seek cover...just in case


I"ve done alot of shooting and have only seen a few hang fires and those were with some realy old argentine mauser ammo. I have never seen a hangfire that was more than a second or two in going bang. I suspect the minute or so were not hangfires but instead were "cookoffs" where a gun most likely a magazine fed auto of some kind. were fired until it was extremely hot and then a round left in the chamber where the heat of the chamber could cause the round to over heat and detonate. 
I could be wrong I've seen alot but know without a doubt I aint seen it all yet. Just based on the info I think I may be correct.


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

I have two Beta C mags and have never had an issue with either..But I follow the instructions and graphite the ammo every few rounds, messy but it works, I have Magpul mags Preloaded and have been told that it causes the mag lips to deform...Never seen it happen. I am still shooting the same used GI mags I got when I got my first AR many long years ago , some have little finish left. they still work flawlessly which means they can take a crap at any time or never. TANSTAAFL folks...

I don't need to practice FTF or FTE drills, I have a room mate named Murphy who spends most every day swinging from my nads screaming YEEEHAAAA.

That alone keeps me busy dealing with shit.

One thing I did invest in is a air compressor that I can blow out the crap the cleaning fluids loosens. That was worth every penny! 

I believe it is possible to over do the entire cleaning thing. I have a buddy who will strip and clean his pistols even if he only fired a few rounds. JMHO but that is over doing it.

I clean my AR every 500 or so rounds, I do clean my mags more then the gun.. Which reminds me it's time to break down my P-14 mags.. takes a while to clean 15 of the damn things. 

I may clean my AK this year..maybe


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## Moby76065 (Jul 31, 2012)

I am always careful on equipment purchases that I may need to depend upon to save my life or others.

I never skimp on money. My AR 10 is an Armalite. A bit more expensive but arguably one of the best AR's made. It's the one all others were copied from. It's the REAL AR. and the only rifle supposedly allowed to use the AR name.

My pistols are Glocks. a 21, a 30. Knowone will argue the reliability of a Glock, my shotgun, Remingtom 870. I purchased all of these based on time tested reliablity.

But as Sentry said. That's only step one, it's all about training and cleaning.


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## Canadian (Dec 14, 2008)

Sentry18 said:


> I have had great success with Magpul Pmags, Lancer Warfighters and USGI mags with Magpul springs and self-leveling followers. But really I have only had a few mags I did not care for or would not feed reliably. The older Gen1 Tapco mags were problematic (but that was resolved in later product mags and the new Gen 2 mags) *and some of the Canadian Thermold mags have issues too.* But that is because the Canadians decided to use an inferior polymer versus the zytel that Thermold uses. Ironically the 20 round Thermolds made in Canada did not have the same issues.


Some Canadian made thermold magazines were designed to be shipped pre-loaded with ammo. They were meant to be disposable and used only once and dumped during combat. Due to budget cuts the forces ended up using them over and over again. The guys used to get the "thermold mag dump" where you'd pull the mag from your rig and all 30 rounds would vomit out of the mag onto the ground.

The design was later changed to allow for re-use of the mags.


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## Startingout-Blair (Aug 28, 2012)

Fn/Form said:


> Louis Awerbuck says revolver failures are usually jams; and that jams in revolvers are not as easily remedied as the problems a semi-auto may have. He strongly recommends semi-autos over revolvers.
> 
> On the flip side, semi-autos have their own issues, and some people can't or realistically won't master them.
> 
> Really, if you choose to carry a gun... seriously consider carrying TWO. Back up guns make sense, especially if they can share the same magazines/loaders.


Believe it or not, I usually do carry two. A 9mm is my main hardware and a snub nose .38special +p is my backup. I plan to sell the .38cal tomorrow to a friend and possibly replace it with a .45semi-auto


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## Onebigelf (Sep 17, 2011)

That's why we train. As other's have noted, the theater shooter was using a 100 round mag, possibly one of the Korean copies of the Beta-C rather than the real thing, and the drum mags are noted for being particular. You have to graphite them and load them properly of they don't work reliably. No indication that the shooter had the knowledge and experience to handle that. AR-15s, particularly during breaking, can be sensitive to lubrication. Most advice I've seen says run them "dripping" (YMMV), and there is certainly no report that I've seen that indicates that either of these idiots had the experience to know to disassemble and properly lubricate- nor what the lube points are, a new AR-15 during the break in period. I've run a number of ARs by a number of manufacturers. I wouldn't describe ANY of them as crap or as unreliable. I did have one low budget AR that turned out to have a damaged extractor spring that gave me trouble until that was identified and replaced. I had another that had a burr on the magazine catch that wouldn't drop polymer magazines, but worked fine with aluminum or steel mags. Once that was identified and smoothed it also ran fine. In my experience, upper level guns just work right out of the box without having to worry about checking out and resolving potential... glitches. I'm sure even the best companies must occasionally have an oops, but I bet it's not as often. Still, for most people, if you are willing to run 500-1000 rounds through ANY AR-type rifle and either satisfy yourself that there are no issues or identify and resolve them, most of them will serve reliably. It's just not that hard of a system.

John


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