# interstate travel



## infidel (Oct 13, 2008)

If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


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## Ineffable Aces (Oct 9, 2008)

infidel said:


> If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


The temptation, IMO, is to flee for refuge alone or with only your family. Then, as now, there is strength in numbers. Travel in larger caravans of people who are trying to reach a common destination. I imagine in nearly any state in the westerly U.S. will have a fair contingent of people fleeing to Alaska. Make sure the group you travel with not only has firearms, but are skilled in using them. You git feeling about leadership will likely not be too far off, so don't hesitate in inwardly questioning the leadership of people with suspicious character.


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## NappyRootz (Oct 13, 2008)

Take the back roads.


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## residentfetii (Oct 13, 2008)

Why would people go to alaska also, what if you're trying to travel to meet up with your family but going from a low population density area to deep within a high population density area?


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

infidel said:


> If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


Unless staying home would pose a serious threat to my family, that's exactly where I'd stay. If I were away from home and trying to get back home, I'd take the back roads, fields, any path at all that my vehicle could traverse.

Carry detailed maps with you when you travel.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

Taking the back roads could be even more of a risk. Easier to road block.


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## 1984CJ (Oct 9, 2008)

Dean said:


> Taking the back roads could be even more of a risk. Easier to road block.


This is true. However, the interstates WILL be blocked! There are many more back roads and (in my opinion) the type of people that will be looking to do organized highway robbery are less likely to be familiar with back roads during the first days of a total anarchy situation.

I have to agree with BKT that good maps of your area of operations is a must. Along with some personal knowledge about how to use them and preferably of the roads themselves.


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## netandtim (Oct 8, 2008)

The time to work this out is now. If you plan on taking backroads between point A and point B, have you driven them? Do you have more than one alternate path chosen? 

Hubby and I did just that this past weekend while out at the farm. I had searched the area with Google maps and found small dirt roads between A and B....we tried them out to see if they were passable. As a result, we have a alternate route if necessary.


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## Smithy (Oct 15, 2008)

The question for roadblocks is not which back roads will they be on, but at which chokepoints? "All roads lead to your front door", so start there... how many ways can you leave your house? 1? 2? 5? Branch out from there, and start mapping (and marking on your detailed map) every chokepoint that limits your options, to and from your home/work/hideaway. Come up with a network of alternatives, assuming Interstates and major state highways become controlled.

This is where a dirt-worthy motorcycle starts coming in reeeeel handy. Unfortunately, you can't evac a family and supplies on one.


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## TechAdmin (Oct 1, 2008)

It's not practical for most but a quality 4x4 and topographical map of the area would be very helpful to determine choke points and bypasses.


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## JeepHammer (Oct 10, 2008)

infidel said:


> If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


VERY UNLIKELY.

We've had MASSIVE road blocks during every hurricane and serious earth quake, and nothing like that has happened, so something like that is unlikely.

Interstates will be the LAST place people would try something like that.
Now, if you want to talk "Road Blocks For Robbery", 
then consider small town speed traps...

First of all,
If you are going to rob someone, you want privacy...
Small road with solid road block so the MUST stop!
Not a wide open road way with large shoulders and right of ways...

Secondly, you want to control the situation, and that is very hard to do with lots of people around.

Third, you don't know who in that bunch is armed.
Better have eyes in the back of your head and lots of body armor if you try that when people are already panicking...

Robbers have a sense of self preservation just like most everyone else, and they want loot, not lead!
Someone is going to start shooting in a situation where they are shaking everyone down and have the road blocked...
And when the bullets fly, they don't have names on them.

Much easier to get you on a back street or back road than on a major highway or interstate...

Just ask our resident 'Sky Is Falling' bunch that are talking about 'BUG OUT BAG WEAPONS' and finding/building 'BUNKERS' out in the boonies...
They fully intend on having a clear field of fire on anyone approaching, and I can tell you it isn't so they can give you directions, offer you a meal or trade goods with you.

If you have an operating vehicle with fuel, and it's full of loot, you aren't a lost soul or neighbor going camping to them.
You are FOOD & STUFF for their bunker, 
OR at least you used to be...

That's what bothers me about them.


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## concernedcitizen (Oct 17, 2008)

If that's the case then don't travel in wide open areas near ********!


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## wildman800 (Oct 17, 2008)

A couple of things come to mind; 

Robbery via planned ambushes are highly unlikely for the first 2-3 days because the herd will be in a panic to escape. Robbery will occur first by those who never prepared upon those who are prepared but immobilized by stalled traffic, a flat tire, mechanical failure, etc. These will be unplanned opportunities by the unprepared to take what they need.

During evacuations, the Interstates become parking lots that move between 0 and 25 mph for the most part. The back roads will allow faster movement and will be used mostly by those who are prepared, exercising their Bug Out routes, at least during the first couple of days. The less important the road, the less of the unprepared that will be using it. 

Secondary and Tertiary roads are more likely to have fuel and other supplies along the way whereas the Primary roads are going to be cleaned out by the herd as it is passing through the countryside.

As 1 poster to this thread pointed out, good topo maps are a must! One of the most common, most easily obtainable topo maps are the Visual Flight Rules (VFR) maps that can be found at your local airport. Many dirt/gravel roads are noted on these maps. Electrical Right-of-Ways can be plotted upon them because the towers are noted on these maps.

We are actually looking at the hazards and tactics needed for a successful Bug Out. As another poster to this thread has pointed out, it's not the open areas that must feared, it is the chokepoints along the way! 

The most convenient ambush sites along roads by "Bad Locals" would be at almost every bridge. Remember that there is safety in numbers?? The standard military tactic for moving through the countryside (and upon the sea and air) is to put a "point" in front of the main body. 

The "point" is normally 3-5 minutes ahead of the main body. They "scout" ahead for possible ambushes. They approach hilltops slowly so as to see what is on the other side while keeping their sillahouette minimized until they have checked for a bridge or other possible ambush potential.

A "Tail End Charlie" is also a standard tactic to prevent being surprised from the rear. The Tail End Charlie normally stays approximately 3 minutes behind the main body.

Communications of some kind is a must. Whatever method of communication is utilized, all comms must be minimized so as not to give advanced warning to locals who may be listening.

All members in this "convoy" must know that in the event of an attack, trying to drive through the ambush quickly may be the best reaction if that can be done. Backing up and retreating out of range may be the only option.

After clearing the ambush site, find an open area within a couple of miles to "circle the wagons", establish a defensive perimeter, while any wounded are treated and serious damages can be repaired if possible, or those loads distributed among the remaining vehicles. Gas/Diesel, batteries, etc. would be salvaged from any vehicles that have to be abandoned.

Mean while, topo maps can be consulted and an alternate route plotted to get around the hostiles.

Just a few things to be considered.


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## kc5fm (Oct 12, 2008)

*Evacuation Planning*



infidel said:


> If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


Thanks for this interesting question.

As you have already been told, there's no evidence to support interstate blockades. It has never happened in any disaster. It's too hard to successfully achieve the mission you suppose.

However, side roads may be of little use. IF there is a disaster and an emergency on the interstate, how will responders gain access to the interstate? Local side roads may be blocked, reserved, if you will, for use by local responders.

The I-40 bridge collapse produced heavy traffic on local two-lane highways. This would be an example of how highway engineers designed traffic flow around the disaster site.

Lets think about evacuation.

1. Decide NOW where you will go. Does Aunt Susie in Toledo really expect you? Once you have decided that, make a trip routing to the location. A GARMIN or TOMTOM would be a valuable supplement to a paper map. This would allow you to modify your route while you are ON your route.

2. Share your plan with your proposed guests. This is both before you go (during your planning session) and just before you leave. Is Aunt Susie in the Bahamas this week?

3. If you are planning to caravan, make sure you have communications with all vehicles. Family Radio Service or Amateur Radio Service will help you. The former is just for a few hundred yards. The latter has better range. The American Radio Relay League can help you find a local club to help you with the material you need to know to pass the test and help you find a test session near you.

4. If you are planning to stop at motels, find those facilities that are most helpful to your needs, *before* you leave. Are you evacuating with pets? Find those pet friendly lodges. Are you, in some way, handicapped? Find those that offer assistance.

Keep receipts. *IF* the jurisdiction is declared a disaster, you may find yourself eligible for individual assistance.

No disaster declaration? You may be eligible for assistance from your insurance company. This may apply to those who have rental insurance as well. Check with your insurance agent for details.

Either way, keep receipts.

5. Are you evacuating to a shelter? Shelter tips abound. Having your 72-hour bag and sleeping materials is a must. There have *never* been T-bone steak served in shelters during the first 12 hours. 

If you have no 72-hour kit, then basic planning is where you must start. Write the plan. Build the kit to support the mission. Guidance is at FEMA or call 800-BE-READY. A calendar to build a kit over time is available. 

In closing, please remember to include your elderly friends, relatives, and neighbors in your evacuation planning.

I hope this is helpful to you.


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## ke4sky (Oct 21, 2008)

*Stay - Evacuate Decision*

*Read the Katrina Bugout Lessons Learned Thread!*

*If you have the resources to leave, leave early and take the back roads before authorities impose flow and traffic controls.*

*Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said, he has ordered a comprehensive plan for evacuating the region." Chertoff convened a meeting with officials from as far away as West Virginia in addition to Delaware to focus on drawing up an evacuation plan for the Washington area. &#8230;..Washington Post September 11, 2006*

*Survey data in the Washington, DC area indicate:*

Residents in the DC area express a relatively high degree of anticipated vulnerability to terror attacks

Residents express a high propensity to self-evacuate and evacuation destinations are likely to be widely distributed geographically

Absent available local information, a large proportion of area residents are likely to evacuate

Residents also express low confidence in governmental evacuation planning on disaster events

*Regional planning to address mass evacuation:*

*What are the other state's planning/doing?*

*How do we communicate, command & control*

*Deployment of resources should be maximized for effect *
(NO state lines&#8230;Regional Issue)

R&R for Teams
Families of Responders

*RSOI - RECEPTION - STAGING - ONWARD MOVEMENT - INTEGRATION*

*Control Entry Points*

- Primary/Secondary routes "Support is there if you stay the course"
- Information feed and flow (Public Radio, ITS, checkpoints)
- KEEP THEM MOVING! Pass-through Movement
Contraflow evacuation
- WVDOT Emergency Operation and Personnel Support
Secondary Routing to Support Emergency Operations
- Private Airstrips
- State Secondary & County Routes

*Route Management Issues*

*Early Warning*
Traffic Control
- Choke Points
- Breakdowns
- Accidents
- Flow
*Fuel supply*
Limited Assets
- Personnel
- Equipment
- Highway Routes
- Capacity
*Time of Year/Weather/Terrain*

West Virginia hosted a regional meeting of states of the region to begin a collaborative process. The State is hosting regional planning meetings to discuss the impact of a mass evacuation on specific areas of the state. States, Federal and local government are continuing work to achieve these objectives.


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## wd4nyl (Nov 26, 2008)

In my emergency planning I took two approaches. A "casual bugout" which is going with an educated gut feeling that a move is wise before it becomes a deperation move & the other being the "get the heck out of Dodge" approach.

With the first you have a better chance to avoid hopelessly clogged escape route, gas shortages & other probable situations.

The second is the desperation move, with many, many panicked, unprepared people.

One thing I've already considered is routing problems. At my location travel North would put me in the inner city during a breakdown of law & order. East and West are interstates that would be totally clogged. To the South is a mountain range with only two passes & those are nightmares during routine rush hours.

Hence the "casual bugout" approach. "Get while the gettings good".


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## KYprep (Nov 28, 2008)

The main thing I count on is my triggers. I have a number of sources I check often and if I feel like something is coming I should be to my location ahead of any road blocks. Worst case I’m at most 75 miles from, where I’d want to be when SHTF. My Pack and some walking and I am there. (Sit ops Know your area)


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## Publius (Nov 27, 2008)

I can talk on the interstate crowding. In 2003 I lived in the Detroit area. I worked in Troy and lived in Canton and it took me about 45 minutes to get to and from work every day. Normal congestion kind of thing. Add a wreck or construction and all bets were off. Now I usually took the expressways as far each way as I could, but also noted and practiced the back ways. Now if you Google map the two cites, you will notice the expressways and how they are laid out. I noted what road crossed the eways without them being an exit (less congestion this way). During the Blackout of August 2003 I never once got on the parking lots the expressways became. I drove through sub-divisions and stop signed roads as much as possible. It took me two hours to get home. A bit more than normal if I had done in during a normal day, which was about an hour and fifteen minutes (I experimented). I think I lived about 30 miles door to door. My sister who lives in Livonia and works at Ford World HQ is 12.5 miles and took four hours. I lived rural and she lives urban. Her work was deep in an urban area and mine was on the outskirts.


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## dunappy (Nov 11, 2008)

We live near the interstate, but have a couple of alternative routes away from the house. One however also requires an alternative mode of transportation (the horses). If the interstate and the corresponding frontage highway are both blocked, we can travel the road up to the lake, out through the forest service and get to either one of the next towns. However If that road is also blocked we could saddle up the horses and cross over the mountains to the town on the other side. 

But since we also live in an area were there are very few natural disasters in the first place, the only thing that would seriously block our interstate would be.
1. man made disasters 
2. extreme heavy snow.
and If it were the second, my best bet is to stay home, put more wood on the fire and watch the traffic get stuck.

If it were the first, It would also depend on the nature of the disaster. A toxic chemical leak would be a reason to " bug Out" but a blow out of the natural gas pipeline near the interstate would be a cause to stay put. (and that one has already happened locally during my lifetime)


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## AgentFlounder (Dec 12, 2008)

infidel said:


> If there was a disaster and everyone is using the interstate or a financial meltdown, couldn't this result in complete chaos on the roads with people creating roadblocks to rob people? What are some tips to get around situations like this or to travel and avoid people during travel in higher populated areas?


Many times there is any kind of large scale natural disaster requiring evacuation, traffic is an issue. I can't think of specifics but I swear I've seen blocked roads on the news during hurricane evacuations in the southeast. But I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true of folks fleeing forest fires.

I'm not sure I follow this scenario of roadblocks to rob people. 

If it's a natural disaster, the robbers probably want to evacuate too. Maybe worry about crime in the shelters or after people return to the area.

I don't see how you can evacuate and avoid people. There are too many of us  Unless you leave really early, which means you are more likely to leave for no reason because you would have less certainty about whether evacuation is actually necessary (e.g. the hurricane changes direction).

It's not like there's going to be some secret road no one knows about. Because lots of people are thinking just like you. Try leaving a major sporting event. All the back roads are full too.

Michael


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## jebrown (Nov 7, 2008)

KC5FM
I was working a shelter in Los Angles area in the late 70's due to forrest fire in the San Gabriel Mountains. About three hours after opening a local steak house showed up with corn, green beans, salad, dinner rolls, butter, cheese cake, and several varities of cake for dessert. There was also prime rib, t-bones, portehouse, and New York steaks. They also brought bottles of wine but we had to decline them as you know alcohol is not permitted in shelters. All of the meat was cooked medium and some whiners compalined that it wasn't cooked the way they liked it. Talking about ungreatful.
The owner, his wife and staff set up and served the food. He also donated a very large check to the Red Cross.
I am so very sorry that you missed that shelter.


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## Ones&Zeros (Dec 12, 2008)

You must give a great deal of thought to the route that you are going to take, too. Take Florida for example. There are two interstates from the southern tip northward until you are able to travel east or west. When there are hurricanes, the procession of evacuees starts in the south. By the time any evacuation is neccessary in the northern part of the state, the interstates are heavily congested, and they do come to a crawl/stop. You're not just dealing with a million people from your city (in my case). You're dealing with _milliions_ of people who have left ahead of you and who are now in your way.

The key is to leave early before it's a must situation. Doing so will prevent delays.


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## greaseman (Jun 13, 2009)

*travelling on the Interstate*

I have seen this same question asked many times on other forums, and it still comes down to figuring what's best for you. Even in a remote area, there are going to be locals out for personal gain, and unless they know you, you are in trouble. The remote route still might be the best. The locals might let you pass for a little bribe, but at a busy highway checkpoint, the local Guard unit is going to seize whatever they want at gunpoint, leaving you wiht nothing.
i'd personally rather take my chances at home. It's a tough decision, but bugging out to the hills isn't what it's cracked up to be unless your an accomplished woodsman, or have a homestead to go to.
There are no easy answers obviously.


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## kc5fm (Oct 12, 2008)

*National Guard*



greaseman said:


> ...the local Guard unit is going to seize whatever they want at gunpoint, leaving you wiht nothing.


Please document a time that you know the National Guard has taken personal property from a Civilian. I am sure my contacts within the Department of Defense would be interested to learn.

There are a number of State and Federal laws that prohibit the Military from engaging the Civilian EXCEPT to detain the Civilian for Civil authority. That's explained in the _Posse Comitatus Act_ as well as other places.

Additionally, with insurance being what it is, I am still puzzling why anyone would willingly sleep outside when the homeowners or renters insurance would reimburse the cost of the motel, except for the deductible and the limit of your coverage.

Those that lack insurance still have American Red Cross, Salvation Army, and church shelters available during a disaster. Planning NOW would keep one out of those.


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

Whether I stay put or go to my BOL depends on my perception of the threat. 

If it a full scale SHTF, I am going backroads. Yes back roads can be easier to road block but the don't believe that the government will be able to successfully accomplish that task as they will be tied up keeping the peace. I hope and pray we never get to that point.

Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

Expeditioner said:


> Whether I stay put or go to my BOL depends on my perception of the threat.
> 
> If it a full scale SHTF, I am going backroads. Yes back roads can be easier to road block but the don't believe that the government will be able to successfully accomplish that task as they will be tied up keeping the peace. I hope and pray we never get to that point.
> 
> Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


is The Guv-Mint REALLY who you are worried about blocking the roads?


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## Chemechie (Jun 9, 2009)

*Travel or not to Travel?*

With all of the talk about traveling here, and all of the things that can go wrong on a roadtrip in even the best conditions, I think the best thing to do is not travel is at all possible - or go as short a distance as possible if your home is untenable when shtf. If things are (or could get) that bad where you live, I would suggest you need to think about moving!
I have purposely found a job in a more rural area and a location that while not ideal for long term survival is very close to places that are. 
In these uncertain times, I am glad to not live near a big city or lots of other people.


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## kc5fm (Oct 12, 2008)

*Shelter in Place*



Chemechie said:


> With all of the talk about traveling here, and all of the things that can go wrong on a roadtrip in even the best conditions, I think the best thing to do is not travel is at all possible - or go as short a distance as possible ...


Agreed ... and there are two action items during an emergency. One is evacuation. The other is shelter in place.

Shelter in Place is uses most but people may not realize it. Tornadoes and severe thunderstorms give the Citizen the best opportunity to shelter in place. As a rule of thumb, if the event is expected to last over two hours, evacuation is the thing to do, *if * it is safe to do so.

The instance of hazardous materials indicates an evaluation to determine go or no go. Factors include the material, how long the material will remain in the area, and is the Citizen prepared to shelter in place. Can the Citizen leave their home *safely*? If the Citizen stays in their home, can they do so *safely*.

Planning is important at the local level, at the homeowners' level. This is why you have seen and will continue to see the Ready Web Page and other government encouragement to plan, prepare and practice.


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## sailaway (Mar 12, 2009)

I have to remember most people are sheeple, they follow the herd. I see this every day in the summer when the hoards show up in my city to go to Cedar Point Amusement Park. They all follow each other in the same routs and never deviate. Many have been comming for years and have never taken the initiative to find a parallel route to the perscribed rout. They could cut their traffic time from 2 hrs. down to about 1/2 hr. They even eat in the same high priced chain resturants along the way. Us locals know how to navigate around them and never get caught up in the mess. I'm so glad those people don't think.
The only road blocks I have ever experienced have been by the government, usually keeping you from getting back in. ie. after Hurricane Andrew the National Guard would not let me drive back to the marina where my boat was. I wound up using my inflatable and getting to it that way.  (one if by land, two if by sea.) Back in the 80's The Conch Republic was established when the government put a road block across US1 and searched every vehicle comming in and out of Key West for drugs. (The Conch Republic was established, declared war on the U.S. after it secceeded then surrendered and asked for war reparation funds.) The only other road blocks that I have experienced are sobriety check points, usually for a good cause. 
I am not too worried about roving bands of thugs, however there is always that possibility. Safety in numbers is a good idea, this has lead to thoughts about my bug out cabin. I prefer to be on my own in a secluded place however it may be safer circled up with a small group of like minded friends. I like the idea of going undetected, but in todays world that is almost impossible, especially in my area.
I have purchased a couple of topo map books for the states I travel. It is "DeLORME Atlas & Gazetter" It is a topographical map book which covers back roads, recreation areas and GPS grids. It is quite thourough for all the roads in my area. They can be purchased at amost out door and Army Navy stores and some truck stops. I highly recomend them for learning the other routes of travel in an area you may be interested in.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

I have also seen road-blocks - but - normally it is due to weather conditions - avalanche, snow-fall of amazing proportions, rain washing the road away and other similar situations.

When I am driving around the city I live in, I look ahead and try to decide if the area I am driving into could be a place that terrorist activity could happen in order to disrupt the city. That same pre-thought looks at the areas as possible places that 18-wheelers having an accident could / would cause the same kinds of destruction. ie: 18-wheeler that carries hydrochloric acid has accident and slams into an overpass support weakening it or collapsing a bridge. What alternative routes would be possible.

This kind of accident is fairly common - only a few weeks ago we had an 18-wheeler hauling a crane on a flat-bed collide with an overpass and take a good chunk out of it. Traffic was backed up / detoured for 6 hours while things got cleaned up.


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## Practical Madman (Jun 10, 2009)

*Wake up!!!*



kc5fm said:


> Please document a time that you know the National Guard has taken personal property from a Civilian. I am sure my contacts within the Department of Defense would be interested to learn.
> 
> There are a number of State and Federal laws that prohibit the Military from engaging the Civilian EXCEPT to detain the Civilian for Civil authority. That's explained in the _Posse Comitatus Act_ as well as other places.
> 
> ...


You definitely talk like a by the book man. What you need to understand is that in the SHTF scenario, all rules go out the window, as well as your insurance. Hurricane Katrina is a very good example of the rules going out the window. In fact, it was actually a trial run for the SHTF scenario. The National Guard, along with Blackwater (yes MERCENARIES used against civilians!) troops took guns from civilians trying to guard their houses, forced them to leave in many instances, and in others left them defenseless. I know National Guard troops that swear they killed over 5,000 people (looters and thieves) and dropped them in the swamps. FEMA was over a week getting supplies into the city, just for the reason of letting these jack boot thugs have time to do their dirty work.

What we are talking about, and what seems to be on the horizon, is a complete breakdown of law, and a New World Order take over and culling of the American population. Watch "Endgame" by Alex Jones; "Freedom to Fascism" by Aaron Russo; and "Obama Deception" by Alex Jones- all can be found here http://www.trueworldhistory.info/ along with other videos to wake you up.

If you are expecting the world to continue as it has- you are in for a rude awakening and it is time to wake up and prepare!!! The Department of Defense is the last people to trust. Those that you can trust, will be taken to the FEMA camps and "re-educated" right beside you (or killed there).
Foreign troops are and have been training on the US soil for at least a decade, and will be used against us!!!!! Do a google search on NLE09 (National Level Exercise 09) FEMA will have Mexican, Canadian< Australian, and British troops on US soil from July 27-31 "fighting terrorism" - this right after DHS published a list of who they consider terrorists; constitutionalists, second amendment supporters, bill of rights supporters, people that do not believe the New World Order is a good idea, etc. WAKE UP!!!!!!


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## kc5fm (Oct 12, 2008)

*Jericho*



Practical Madman said:


> If you are expecting the world to continue as it has- you are in for a rude awakening and it is time to wake up and prepare!!!


Preparing is what I've been about for 20 years now. Preparing for all-hazards, including civil unrest, terrorism, tornadoes, earthquake, flood, winter storms, etc. is 1/4 of the emergency management agenda. The other three are mitigation, response, and recovery.

The subject here is Jericho. While I don't think we need to watch TV and use the guidance there as the way it should be, the TV show Jericho, IMO, painted a pretty good estimate of the way things would be, IF, as in the case of MEGA SHTF happens.

Unlike your reasoning, I suspect there will be governance in America, just as there was governance in Jericho.

ALL disasters start locally. Governance in Jericho was local.

Will there be an event like Jericho disrupt the entire United States of America? While I pray there is not, as you so aptly put, now is the time to prepare.

Will there be Federal Emergency Management Agency concentration camps? You can believe that, if you wish. I know I have observed evacuation centers run by the State. Those receive evacuees from the Gulf Coast. The guests, as we call them in Oklahoma, were free to leave from the moment they got here. Some chose to stay longer than others. A very few chose the County jail for their next change of address.

If FEMA is not to prepare for Mass Care, please tell us who should be doing it. Clearly, from the history we've had, stuff will happen. If the local government can't handle it, that leaves the State. If the State requests FEMA help, sounds like they are planning already.

Case in point, my music minister at the time had to do a term paper on the Church response to Katrina. When he asked the first question, I answered with "That's the wrong question. You should have asked, was the Church prepared to minister at Katrina."

While Holy Spirit driven folks were doing great stuff following Katrina, they were not prepared for the mission. I have had a good number of ministers agree with that assessment.

From the tone of your response, it sounds like you don't trust government. I guess the only thing I can say to that is "Why do you keep voting for them?" 

As the program Jericho pointed out, there will be governing in America following the event. Some of the governing will be good. Some will be bad. I am planning for good government.


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## Expeditioner (Jan 6, 2009)

The_Blob said:


> is The Guv-Mint REALLY who you are worried about blocking the roads?


No Blob - the Goobermint is the least of my worries. Yes there are those whose intentions will be nefarious . It pays to have a network of friends and family that can help out along the way.


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## Practical Madman (Jun 10, 2009)

> From the tone of your response, it sounds like you don't trust government. I guess the only thing I can say to that is "Why do you keep voting for them?"
> 
> As the program Jericho pointed out, there will be governing in America following the event. Some of the governing will be good. Some will be bad. I am planning for good government.


No I do not trust the government. I do not vote for them, and neither do you.
Stalin said "the voters never decide anything, those that count the votes decide everything". As long as computers have been counting the votes, they have been rigged. How else did GW win both times? It was by selection and appointment, not the voters.

Here is a link you really need to visit: http://www.trueworldhistory.info/
All of the videos on this site should be mandatory viewing for all Americans.

FEMA???? stands for Fix Everything My Ass.
They are in charge of the FEMA death camps, They are not interested in your survival. Don't take my word for it. Google "REX 84". Read for yourself the law that Regan had installed in 84 to intern all Americans that refuse the flue vaccine in case of pandemic. This has all been planned for many many years, and we are getting ready to come to a head now.

I can understand that all of the "doomsday" stuff is hard to swallow. Do some research, do some video watching. Then decide for yourself if we are just preparing for a singular local disaster, or something far more cynical, evil, and imminent.


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## kc5fm (Oct 12, 2008)

*Doomsday*



Practical Madman said:


> I can understand that all of the "doomsday" stuff is hard to swallow. Do some research, do some video watching. Then decide for yourself if we are just preparing for a singular local disaster, or something far more cynical, evil, and imminent.


Looking at reality, my friend, I've been at this duty station two years. In two years, there have been three Gubernatorial States of Emergency, one Federally-declared disaster, one train derailment, and one plane crash.

This is in rural Oklahoma. In the Big City, the numbers should be even higher.

In two years, there's been ZERO, NADA, NIL doomsday events.

When I talk to Citizens I encourage them to prepare for what WILL happen, on a day-to-day occurrence. I also encourage them to work with their neighbors to overcome challenges.

An example would be during a recent Ice Storm, one of my volunteers found himself cut off with his neighbors. Using initiative, this individual motivated his neighbors to work together to cook, shelter, feed, and recover from the event that left some in the County without power for 14 days.

This is the premise of Neighborhood Watch and Community Emergency Response Team training.

I feel, if the Citizen is prepared, then America is prepared.

When I read the back of the Book, I see, when Apocalypse comes, I'm sucked off the planet anyway. 

Have a blessed week!


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## RoadRash (Sep 29, 2010)

If and when TSHTF and its time to get the hell out of Hamilton I have 3 options Walk, drive any means MC ATV Vehicle , water boat. Hopefully there is some form of communication if not being head of the house it will be my call on where and how to go.
Trucks are 4x4 Plan a detailed route, with two secondary routes. Looking at train tracks as 1 route lots of cover and if they are service trains may have food fuel water. Abandon rail tracks turned to hiking paths is another idea. 
Like what I am seeing


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

If I'm ahead of the herd I'll just roll hard...and bull thru..if I'm not I'll find a place to leave the road and climb up into an open area on a hill and find a low spot to lay low.. I can wait hours or days and if need be even longer.. if I'm out of sight and yet can see anybody approaching I'll have time to decide how to deal with them...

Always take the high ground.. the enemy has to charge up hill..and you can shoot down easier then he can shoot up...

And there is also always the option of staying well off the road and just moving slowly well away from the crush..but always scout over the next hill before crossing... even a car can move cross country if you use your head about it


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## semperscott (Nov 7, 2010)

One of the reasons I am looking to purchase land along Caddo Lake or Lake O' the Pines is that it will give me another option for transportation. Besides offering fish to supplement my stored food supplies, the water will also allow me to travel quicker than roadways that may be blocked and/or watched. Once established I will also have several "SHTF pick-up points" for family and friends at multiple locations. Thus I will not have a flood of vehicles headed my way that could/would tip off others, as well as it will also keep my family and friends from traffic tie-ups, roadblocks, and any other hazard. I already have one 30 ft. pontoon boat that will allow plenty of room for people and the supplies they bring.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

On my wish list is the "*I aint even thinking about stopping bumper*" for my 3/4 ton 4x4.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

Practical Madman;13075 [B said:


> I know National Guard troops that swear they killed over 5,000 people (looters and thieves) and dropped them in the swamps. FEMA was over a week getting supplies into the city, just for the reason of letting these jack boot thugs have time to do their dirty work.[/B]
> 
> Such things are insulting. Those troops gave up family time, often before or after deployments to help the people of Louisiana and Mississippi and they're better than the people who make accusations like that. Personally, I've belonged to an organization and we had accusations in the media that we tortured prisoners! To hear liars like that is utterly amazing. You wonder whether you're hearing a stupid person or someone so twisted they deliberately lie.
> 
> ...


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Got lots a good maps with all the backroads an we travel a fair number of them regularly. I avoid the interstates even now, an definetly would durin a crisis.

An yup, there's safety in numbers an they should be prepared fer trouble. Military convoy (style) is a fine thing!


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

I've been involved quite heavily with FEMA, an so far as I've seen there ain't no death camps. We push hard fer folks to be able ta help themselves in a emergency, is FEMA overwhelmed at times, yes. Do they always do everthing right, no, then again, they are humans an learn from there mistakes.

As fer the National Guard, my boy is in it, he wen't down an helped, never fired a shot an perty sure unless his life er somebody eles's life was in danger wouldn't have. He is no part of a government goon squad an frankly I don't like people what think he is.

Will we have a major nationwide disaster? Well who really knows, but if folks would prepare fer the possible disasters in there area, we certainly would be better off. Emergency services are quickly overwhelmed in large emergencies an it be upta us to help ourselves. This be why there are programs such as Community Emergency Response Teams, Citizen Corps an others, there goal is ta prepare citizens to help themselves. We can't be taken care of from the cradle ta the grave. Ya gotta help yerself an as fer trustin the government, well we got what we got an need ta work with it. If we don't like em, vote in some what we do. To many people sit on there backside an complain about who be in office er what laws er passed an yet don't do anything ta correct the situation.

Everyone is intitiled ta there opinion, just don't shove it down somebodies throat is all.

Alright, the Rev. Coot is steppin down from the pulpit before I gotta take more pills.


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## SurviveNthrive (May 20, 2010)

One major problem is we've so many nutcakes who buy into things like FEMA death camps and what they see about the Center for Disease control in movies that they're going to interfere with success in response in a truly beyond regional disaster.


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## SgtWatson (Nov 14, 2010)

We have a plan to get from the city, (we both commute about 45 miles) back to the house using a pre-planned route. We have a place about 100 miles from the city were the greater family is to meet in case things go to hell. We have two different routes that we have memorized to both destinations. There is a primary back road route and a secondary back-road route. The main reason is that if we are unable to make contact (cell phones out etc) We will at least have a starting point to rescue the stranded family member. 
The main problem is bridges. There are a few bridges and overpasses that can not be avoided due to the terrain. I haven't figured this problem out just yet. any suggestions? These are a real problem because they are a natural bottleneck which means obvious place for a traffic jam or checkpoint. Either way, no one is getting through very fast. 

I plan to stay home for at least the first 48 hours depending on the overall situation. (my home being 45 miles outside the city) I plan to spend that first 48 hours gathering up stranded family members, issuing firearms and ammo, preparing to defend the resources I have stocked up.. and establishing commo via regular cb radio. Set up security with trusted family and friends and wait and watch before I expend the considerable resources that will be required to move further out into the countryside. yes.. maps.. if anyone has a contact on how to get your hands on military grid (MGRS) topo maps for a particular area.. That would be the shadizzle... GPS will definitely be offline. 

that is just my plan.. any advice?


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## gypsysue (Mar 27, 2010)

It's wise to evaluate the situation before bolting to your farther-away location, but it might pay to be flexible on your timeline. If everyone is rounded up and together at the initial location, then it might be a good idea to assess conditions and decide if you should head out to the other location and not risk getting caught up with fleeing masses.

This, of course, would depend on what the situation is and whether you anticipate it to be long-term or short-term. 

And presumably you have more than 48 hrs' worth of supplies at your home, just in case?

.


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## jnrdesertrats (Jul 3, 2010)

I would only need to travel in either direction about 50 miles. Unfortunately both routes either force you through a canyon or have only one route that I know of ( I am looking into that ). I live in a small town and am aware of a few militia survivalist groups. I am not involved with them but I do have acquaintances. If I encounter them I think I can get through on a handshake and a donation.

So on my to do list is pack a lunch and go 4 wheeling. :2thumb:


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Roads with bridges over big rivers are a major concern on "escape routes" or even commute roads, I know that I get "nervious" when I am in an area with only one road out.


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## SgtWatson (Nov 14, 2010)

yes, I have pleny of supples at my initial location but the problem is that is it located on the wrong side af a bridge (the only one of two that i can take to get to the second location) . I can find a way around the bridge but it takes me about 60 miles out of the way. The secondary location is very remote and there are no prepositiond supples there save for ample forage for game and fresh water well and an old farm house. 
This means I would have to transport the bulk of my supplies to the new location. This movement will be a risky operation and will consume valuable resourses, such as fuel etc. 
You are right about the timeline. It might be better to have a plan where once everyone is in place. and the primary location is no longer tenable to then make the move. 

There is a cut off time limit on how long I might be able to stay at the primary location which is only 45 miles from the city.. becuase as the city dwellers begin thier mass exodus, they will be in my back yard withing the first two days.. they will be hungry, cold, wet and in most cases armed. 

Secondly.. if the situation permitts a either or case... would you think it better to travel at night or day?


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

SgtWatson said:


> We have a plan to get from the city, (we both commute about 45 miles) back to the house using a pre-planned route. We have a place about 100 miles from the city were the greater family is to meet in case things go to hell. We have two different routes that we have memorized to both destinations. There is a primary back road route and a secondary back-road route. The main reason is that if we are unable to make contact (cell phones out etc) We will at least have a starting point to rescue the stranded family member.
> The main problem is bridges. There are a few bridges and overpasses that can not be avoided due to the terrain. I haven't figured this problem out just yet. any suggestions? These are a real problem because they are a natural bottleneck which means obvious place for a traffic jam or checkpoint. Either way, no one is getting through very fast.
> 
> I plan to stay home for at least the first 48 hours depending on the overall situation. (my home being 45 miles outside the city) I plan to spend that first 48 hours gathering up stranded family members, issuing firearms and ammo, preparing to defend the resources I have stocked up.. and establishing commo via regular cb radio. Set up security with trusted family and friends and wait and watch before I expend the considerable resources that will be required to move further out into the countryside. yes.. maps.. if anyone has a contact on how to get your hands on military grid (MGRS) topo maps for a particular area.. That would be the shadizzle... GPS will definitely be offline.
> ...


Choose your vehicles wisely would be my only advice. Pick something that allows you to leave the pavement and work your way around the troubles that are in your way. Personally, I like the Jeep - simple, reliable and easily modified to handle the worst terrains. Add a snorkle with a deep-water-crossing kit (sealed electronics) and you will be able to go through water several feet deep without worries (my Jeep has been through water upto 5' deep without issues).

Another vehicle choice would be motorbike (enduro or dual-sport) that will allow you the same kind of capabilities as a 4x4 with the added benifit of being "single-track" allowing you to squeeze between narrow obsticles ..


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## HozayBuck (Jan 27, 2010)

NaeKid said:


> Choose your vehicles wisely would be my only advice. Pick something that allows you to leave the pavement and work your way around the troubles that are in your way. Personally, I like the Jeep - simple, reliable and easily modified to handle the worst terrains. Add a snorkle with a deep-water-crossing kit (sealed electronics) and you will be able to go through water several feet deep without worries (my Jeep has been through water upto 5' deep without issues).
> 
> Another vehicle choice would be motorbike (enduro or dual-sport) that will allow you the same kind of capabilities as a 4x4 with the added benifit of being "single-track" allowing you to squeeze between narrow obsticles ..


I agree with you NK... and I really like the Enduro idea.. now to get one..also my damn Bronco really needs some different gears, the slightest grade has it shifting all the time.. IF I don't take it out of OD.. and yes I looked at all the stuff you sent.. I guess I'll decide on something.. I'm really only interested in driving between 65 and 70 mph... so fuel use shouldn't be all that bad


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## Tirediron (Jul 12, 2010)

Have you considered putting a couple of buried caches of LTS supplies at your secondary location in case you can't get the supplies from your home


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## SgtWatson (Nov 14, 2010)

excellent idea. a note on caches tho.. there are some things to consider. We used cashe's in Iraq on several sniper missions. we siimply could not carry enough water ammo, etc for 4 days in the desert for a 4 man team. so used caches' to extend our mission time outside the wire. 

The things we had to take into account were things like being able to recover them ie. finding the location of a cache even if some other unit placed them. we had to hide them so they weren';t discovered by the wrong people and at the same time leave a marker that is visible enough for us to be able to recognize. We used GPS to find them at night in the desert.. that capability may not exist in a bug-out situation. the family would need to know where the stash was hidden so in case the only person who knew did not make it to the secondary location. These are dteails that could be esaily overcome if carefully considered... i really like the idea, it had occured to me to do such a thing. the main thing holding me back was money. I can justify stocking up on things at the house because I know I will eventually use them.. but to bury them 60 miles from the home? muh wife would think I have totally lost it.. She and I do not share the same beliefs on the probability of the necessit of preparedness. she would think I need to go back to the VA for more counseling.. however, thanx for the suggestion... I will look into it further...


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