# I was nearly carjacked at gunpoint



## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Someone attempted an armed carjacking on me the other day.

I haven't talked about it much since it happened. I feel comfortable sharing it with this group, who can appreciate it for what it's worth - a learning experience.

As a bit of background, I do own several firearms. A handgun, an AR-15, a 12 gauge shotgun and an old mosin-nagant. I shoot more than most folks - but likely much less than the people on this forum. I shoot a hundred rounds per month out of the AR and handgun, maybe. I'm very proficient with the AR-15 (thanks Uncle Sam!). I'm comfortable with the handgun for sure, but I just don't group that well under rapid fire. At 21 feet, I can place 100% in a human sized torso (though it's all over), with rapid fire, while side-stepping, under stressed range conditions (dark, raining, etc...). I have a permit to carry and conceal IWB regularly. Okay, you all want to read the story, I know!

I was driving around a large metropolitan area. Mind you, I was wearing a suit an tie! There was a detour but my phone navigated me incorrectly. I ended up in a bad part of town. I immediately decided to go around a block and high tail it out. I was certainly a bit on edge - turning the radio off, putting both hands on the wheel tightly. I noticed 5-6 men, probably 16 to 30 years old, obviously either in a gang or wanting to play the part. One of them jaywalked in front of my vehicle, turned to his left to face me and looked me right in the eye. He pulled his hoody up, revealing some type of full sized 1911 handgun.

In that moment, I just felt absolutely confident that I was going to kill somebody. It never crossed my mind in that instant that I might die. I could picture him being shot. Consciously, I was oblivious to my windshield being there - but I had practiced once in a situation like this. It seemed like time slowed. I could hear my heart beating. All of this was going through my mind in probably less than half a second. He reached down and gripped his handgun and looked to his left, waving a "come here" type of motion with his left hand. In hindsight, he was waving the other guys over. In the moment, I had ignored them and was intent on killing this guy.

I opened my center console with my right hand and reached in with my left. You can practice all you want, but some variable will be different. I had never imagined I would be drawing my firearm with my left hand, out of a center console. As I was opening the center console, my eyes were still on him. It was like I could see ahead of me and down to the console, all clearly in focus. I had extended my legs and pushed myself all the way back in the seat. I had trained for that, to get full extension. It was a reflex at that point.

I could see that he noticed me opening the center console. He had a deere caught in the headlights type of look. His left hand changed to a "stop" signal to his buddies. His right hand came off the gun, and he grabbed his pants to hold them up. He turned to his right, and ran away. By the time I looked to the right, his buddies were at least a block away.

From the time he flashed his gun until they ran was probably something like two seconds.

I closed the center console and got the hell out of there. I made it probably 50 miles before I was calmed down (enough). I stopped at a truck stop to gather my thoughts. I opened up the center console and you'd never guess what I discovered...

I left my gun at home that day. Didn't think I'd "need it."

I guess the lesson is to always be prepared. Bring your gun with you everywhere. Practice, practice, practice. Some of my reactions were great - extending myself back in the seat, for example. However, I was trying to draw with my left hand. But more importantly - there was no ****ing gun in the car. It was sitting at home, locked up in the safe. The other thing is, it never crossed my mind to just floor it and hit him. That was totally not in my list of options when this was all happening - I don't know why.

Well you can bet I'll never leave home without my gun again.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I think most of us (except Sentry) walk through situations in our mind and really don't know what we'll do until we're suddenly thrust in the middle of something. Thanks for sharing - the good, bad, and almost ugly. It's fortunate you did not remember the gun was not in the console or the bad guy might have had the upper hand.

Angels were watching over you, my friend.


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## tsrwivey (Dec 31, 2010)

Glad you are okay & I'm just curious but why were you using your left hand to get the gun?


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Good question! The console opens with the hinge by my elbow. I just found myself opening it that way. Seems if you don't practice enough, things just happen


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you should have called 911 as you were vacating the area. One reason I say this is because if one of them had called 911, you would have been the bad guy when cops got the call over the radio, started looking for your vehicle, and pulled you over. It has happened to people in the past. The other reason is that they might have caught up with the douchebags and locked them up for a while.

Not sure how close you were or what you drive, but a full throttle charge with a maniacal smile on your face might have been equally effective.  Worked for my mom many years ago. She was driving a mid 70's Ford F100 with a 400 in it though.


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## camo2460 (Feb 10, 2013)

Many years ago about the same thing happened to me on the way to work, only I did have a pistol, a .44 cal. cap and ball horse pistol. When those four guys saw that monster they fell over themselves trying to get away. 
Glad things turned out well for you hawkmiles, that could have been ugly.


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## kemps (Jun 1, 2015)

Man, that is freaky! So much for Minnesota nice


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## squerly (Aug 17, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> I left my gun at home that day. Didn't think I'd "need it."


I need my gun every day, even when I don't...  Glad it worked out OK for you, could have been nasty.


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## Dingo762 (Jan 11, 2015)

Good for you and glad everything turned out in your favor. I think my first reaction would have been to lay on the gas. I wish I could carry everyday. I work for a company that does bluestake and some of the areas I have to go are sketchy at best. We are not allowed to carry weapons but in a duffle I keep with me I have a Kabar and a SOG tomahawk.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

I'm glad to hear all turned out well for you.

Thanks for the lesson, an easy one for those of us that are willing to learn from it. The only times I do not CC, is when I go down into MD(where I would be considered a felon) to visit my mother and my father.

The proper tool and training for the job always makes life better.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

zombieresponder said:


> ..but you should have called 911 as you were vacating the area. One reason I say this is because if one of them had called 911, you would have been the bad guy when cops got the call over the radio, started looking for your vehicle, and pulled you over....


I respectfully disagree.


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## ltdbjd (Jun 10, 2015)

LazyL, why do you disagree? I think that's what's important to share.

Zombieresponder IS correct. On the other hand, I don't disagree with LazyL either. I wouldn't call 911 in that situation either.

Like many things we encounter, we have to weigh the pros and cons of a situation, applying our lifetimes worth of knowledge and experiences, and decide what we believe will be the best course of action for us in that situation. There are so many variables, there cannot be a "right" response that everybody will agree with (though I do believe there is usually a "wrong" response to a given situation).

Please allow me to explain. Yes, I admit, sometimes (okay, almost always), I get a little dramatic when telling stories, but here it goes ....

Here's what happens. Picture this. Bad guys call "911." You don't. They say some guy in an (insert vehicle description here) who looks like (insert zombieresponder description here) just pulled a gun on me. I was walking across the street, he must have got mad I walked in front of him, so he pulled a gun out of the center console of his car, pointed it at me, and said, "being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?" ((( I'm sure some of the "older" people here like me get the movie reference  )))

Now, I know what you're thinking. "But he didn't pull the gun out. He didn't even have a gun with him. And the other guy started it." GASP, somebody lied to the cops??? No way!!

But the cops get the call, and they get one side of the story (the bad guys version, not yours). So when they respond, and provided they find him, they respectfully ask zombieresponder to step out of the car, and nicely request him to lay face down on the pavement with his arms spread out and palms up. Once they tell zombieresponder that they would be pleased if he were to put his head on the pavement looking away from them, they will walk up to him and ever-so-gently drop their weight on him with one knee on his back and one on his neck while simultaneously twisting and locking his arm up pinned against their body and begin to cuff him.

AFTER zombieresponder has experienced that fun and enjoyment, THEN the cops will start investigating. Of course, they won't find a gun, and they won't be able to contact the "victim" because of course the "victim" called 911 from a throw-away (or stolen) cell phone. So they'll dust zombieresponder off, say they were sorry and send him on his way.

OR, zombieresponder could have called 911, beaten them to the punch, and got his story in first.

I don't know LazyL's reasoning behind disagreeing with calling 911, but I'd guess it might be something similar to why I wouldn't call 911 in that situation. Chances of the bad guys calling 911 are almost zero. If they did, chances of the cops finding you are slim too. Me personally, I'd take my chances that I'd be out of there without getting to hang out with the local cops. In effect, I'd be remaining "off the grid" so to speak.

Making the 911 call is in essence, your "legal self-defense technique." Your defense is a strong offense. You're setting the stage to demonstrate your state of mind in advance. Here's what I mean. Say in the above situation, zombieresponder gets caught in a traffic jam, or tactically retreats from the situation down a one-way street; and bad guys catch up to him and force a confrontation. If you had initially called 911 to say you had just been threatened with a gun, you've already put on record that you felt threatened and we're trying to get away. If a second confrontation occurs, your chances of a legal survival have skyrocketed.

I'm new to this forum, so I apologize if I'm repeating things that have already been said before. My example above is one reason that if you get involved in a situation that requires you defend yourself, you start with your "legal self-defense." If I'm confronted, the first thing I do is start yelling as loud as I can that, "I don't want to fight," "please leave me alone," "please don't hurt me," etc. Even if I'm already drawing my handgun or blade, I'm yelling these types of things. Even if I'm advancing to meet the threat head-on on my own terms, this is what I'm yelling as loud as I can. Why? Because I want as many witnesses as I can possibly get to say that the poor guy was begging them not to hurt him and he just wanted to get away. Doesn't matter if I mean it or not; that's what I want witnesses to say. They don't have to see what occurred, all they have to do is repeat my plea's. All they have to do is say that I was obviously in fear for my life and that I was trying my best to avoid a confrontation.

Okay, you get the idea.

One last comment. Zombieresponder, your practice of mentally rehearsing situations is fantastic! Sharing and self-critiquing provided us all with important information. If we rehearse situations in our mind, making them as realistic as they can be, our minds don't really know the difference between visualization, and actually being involved in a situation. It stores the information as if it happens. And that's how you will respond. That's why visualization is so critical to survival. That's why when we prep, we don't visualize ourselves giving up and dying of thirst and starvation in some hole (I think I got that mental image from playing Plague on my iPad!). We visualize winning, surviving and success.

Okay, another last comment; this is where I was going. Zombieresponder didn't carry out the rest of the scenario for us - what he had mentally rehearsed in the event he did have his gun, and did engage. I'd like to point something out for all of us to consider when thinking about how we would respond. After all, that, to me, is the most important part of what zombieresponder brought to us all.

Carry the situation out a bit further. Once you draw your weapon, do you fire through the front windshield? In my experience, that's not a great response; I'd consider an alternative first (and somebody said it - run 'em down. Hopefully you won't crush enough front impact sensors to cause an airbag deployment - you did take that into consideration, didn't you?). Why? Gunfire in a confined space without ear protection will deafen you. Muzzleflash in your face and reflecting off the front windshield will disorient you (think "flashbang" devise). You've now impaired your vision, hearing, and sense of spacial orientation.

Next, add how the bullet with affect the windshield. Your windshield is made up of laminated glass. That's what keeps it intact after an impact. That's why it spiderwebs and holds together. But an impact and/or penetration will still cause the glass be crushed and become airborne, adding to the possibility of vision impairment. In this case, you have multiple threats coming at you from multiple directions that you need to engage. I believe you need to retain your senses as much as you can to effectively engage. That's not to say it would be wrong to fire through the windshield; I'm just adding something that needs to be taken into consideration. And the time to consider it is during visualization practice; not when the SHTF.

Ohhhhh, shiny!!! Okay, I'm done. Apparently I've long since passed the time to take my ADHD meds, so my apologies for getting side tracked, and for writing a novel. SQUIRREL!!!!!!


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

ltdbjd said:


> LazyL, why do you disagree? ... Bad guys call "911." You don't. They say some guy in an (insert vehicle description here) who looks like (insert zombieresponder description here) just pulled a gun on me. I was walking across the street, he must have got mad I walked in front of him, so he pulled a gun out of the center console of his car, pointed it at me...


If I'm following your train of thought correctly then wouldn't we be on 911 constantly because of the potential of offending someone?

Garbage Collector having a bad day and slams my can to the ground. I better call 911 in case he falsely reports finding meth material in my can?

I stop for a Jaywalker, I better call 911 in case the Jaywalker falsely claims I tried to run him down?

Gang banger flashes a gun I need to call 911 in case he claims I'm pulled a gun him (which by the way my gun is sitting back home, not in the center console)?


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

It's easy to arm chair quarterback this one in hindsight. However, survival was the only thing on my mind - not catching the bad guy so he can go to jail overnight and I can appear in court several times. I'm a law abiding citizen and put a lot of faith in law enforcement. 

The fact of the matter is that we practically run on autopilot in situations like that. I should have had a gun, I should have ran him over, I should have stepped out and shot, I should have kept an eye on the other guys, I should have called 911. I appreciate the critiques, because that's how we help each other improve here. But there's no do-overs on this one.

I'm still alive. Mission success.


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## Balls004 (Feb 28, 2015)

Calling 911 is only necessary (or really only useful) if a: you run the idiot over when he put his hand on his weapon to draw it, or b: you shot the idiot. They aren't going to call the cops, especially if they are armed, because they don't want the attention. They would have to ditch any firearms or other weapons on the chance that the police have been told about the brandishing of a firearm. They really don't like to do that unless it's a last ditch alternative.

First and foremost, your vehicle is always a preferred weapon in the situation you described. Not only is it many times more dangerous than most firearms, but it's also your means to either retreat or attack as needed. Plus it's cover for you.

The worst thing to me though, is why, if you're permitted to carry, weren't you? What else do you leave at the house, because you don't think you'll need it? A first aid kit, flashlight, GHB?

If you have the permit, you should have your weapon on your person, everyday, everywhere. Mine goes with me except for extreme non-permissive environments, like airports or federal buildings with metal detectors. Along with a small blowout kit, a flashlight, knife, and a GHB in whatever vehicle I'm in. My wife adheres to the same rule.

That's the price of leaving the house today in America. But I never have to wonder where my firearm is, or find out like you that I forgot it when I needed it most. Glad you made it through the encounter, and even more glad that you turned it into a learning experience.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> It's easy to arm chair quarterback this one in hindsight. However, survival was the only thing on my mind - not catching the bad guy so he can go to jail overnight and I can appear in court several times. I'm a law abiding citizen and put a lot of faith in law enforcement.
> 
> The fact of the matter is that we practically run on autopilot in situations like that. I should have had a gun, I should have ran him over, I should have stepped out and shot, I should have kept an eye on the other guys, I should have called 911. I appreciate the critiques, because that's how we help each other improve here. But there's no do-overs on this one.
> 
> I'm still alive. Mission success.


Let me first say how pleased I am that you are alright. I think you did very well with the situation you were in. You survived a gunfight. He saw your gun and your willingness to use it on your face. Luckily he didn't stay long enough to see you realize where your gun was left. I doubt that you will leave your gun at home in the near future.

The reason to call the cops is to survive the legal system after surviving the gunfight. If you ever have to draw or even display your firearm call the cops and report the incident. There are two roles, victim and perpetrator. The first to call the cops gets to play victim. As you had no gun on you then, 911 was strictly an option.

Running him over would have been an option. If he had drawn his gun then it would have been your best way to survive. Luckily it did not come to that. If his friends had stayed then you would have had to leave and they would have removed his gun. The cops would have come into the picture and your legal fees could have easily run into the six figures. Insurance does not cover a willful act so you would have had to pay these costs out of your own pocket.

Getting out of your car, had your gun been present, would not have been a good choice. This would have been more aggressive and placed you in a tenuous legal situation. Also, the car does provide some protection. Shooting through glass does present some challenges. Here is a link to show you how to shoot from inside your car. From there you can find out how to shoot into a car.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-buick-o-truth-1-windshields-insideout/

These situations are never perfect but you got out of it without physical or legal damage to yourself and that is about as good as it gets. Thank you so much for sharing, it is always nicer to learn from someone else's travails.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Most "bad guys" would not be the type to call 911 because that might involve some serious scrutiny into their actions and property (owned or otherwise "borrowed").


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

You can train until something becomes seemingly instinctive and ingrained, but you can never prepare for every contingency. Mental preparedness is just as important as physical. Every time I read an event like this one I would run scenarios through my mind at every intersection I come to and with every set of circumstances that exist around me at the time. In your situation I would have strongly considered just running him over based on the potential of his gun skills being weak. Then I would have called 911 from down the block. As I checked my bumper for blood and damage.



> I left my gun at home that day. Didn't think I'd "need it."


If I even think that in passing, I will double up on guns. Then I will get a long gun to take with too. If I am laying in bed at night and think "Did I lock the back door?", I MUST get up and go see. If I see something suspicious, mo matter how inconsequential, I absolutely MUST go check it out. I cannot even go to sleep at night without checking on each and every child to make sure they are safe in their beds. I like to believe my training, my experience, my mindset and my instincts have been honed over the years to the point that my psyche refuses to allow me to become complacent. My wife thinks I have LEO OCD. We're probably both right.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

Country Living said:


> Most "bad guys" would not be the type to call 911 because that might involve some serious scrutiny into their actions and property (owned or otherwise "borrowed").


True, "most" would not call 911 but many are quite experienced with the system and know that they are better off calling 911 especially if you do not. According to Marty Hayes, Massad Ayoob, Tiger McKee, and other highly respected instructors in this area, if you draw a gun call 911. If these criminals can divert their prosecution to you they can then turn around and sue you getting far more that they expected the first time.


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## Gians (Nov 8, 2012)

*Glad you're safe*

I always keep my doors locked and leave enough room ahead of the vehicle to get out of trouble if necessary. Also helps if you get clobbered from behind..been there. Have always liked riding high in trucks and SUVs, lets me see traffic and any other kind of trouble before I'm in it. Maybe shoot the phone and get a Garmin instead


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## PreparedRifleman73 (Nov 2, 2012)

Gians said:


> Maybe shoot the phone and get a Garmin instead


I will be doing that for unrelated reasons. I do insurance and investments and believe my customers should be able to get a hold of me on my cell phone. Can't navigate while in a phone call.


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## zombieresponder (Aug 20, 2012)

hawkmiles said:


> I'm still alive. Mission success.


Absolutely agree.


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## backlash (Nov 11, 2008)

Last week in the middle of the day, in the parking lot of the biggest mall in town around a guy got out of his car with a gun and demanded 3 guys hand over their wallets.
One of the guys grabbed the gun, shot fired but no one hit and the robbers took off.
I have sat in that parking lot several times and never even thought about something like that.
I watch people but they are all female.
Guess I'll keep my gun more handy from now on when I'm sitting there.
In todays world you just never know what can and will happen.

As far as calling 911 I don't think I would have in the OPs situation.
If guns were pointed at each other then maybe I would and if shots were fire I definitely would.
If someone walked out in front of my car and flashed a gun my first reaction would have been to stomp on the gas and get the hell out of Dodge.
My gun would have been a secondary thought.
\Glad everything turned out OK for you.


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