# Bug out bug in???????



## gabbyj310

My BOL is in Kentucky. I have my mini farm,supplies and add to my readiness every time I go back home.But I LIVE in Fl,to be close to my job and I have to say, I do so enjoy the weather.I've often thought how would I get all the way from central Fl to my place in Ky???? To drive up I95 or I75 would be next to impossible:dunno: Even the back roads may be hard to get pass unless you know them very well(I don't).I even thought of a small private plane and taking lessons but that expense is way beyond me.If things get "that" bad I want to be in KY for sure!!!!!!I'm sure I'm not the only one that has a BOL a good distance from where they live every day. I would like to here some suggestions on how to get from point "A" to point "B" safely????:scratch


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## Cotton

http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f74/i-live-metropolitan-area-4-000-000-people-26963/

Check out this tread, very similar situation in FL, some good suggestions&#8230; My suggestion, learn to fly a Cessna 172 or sail a small boat, or both! To travel that many miles safely, water or air might be preferable.


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## Sentry18

Another option is a flying club. I have a couple officers who are in a flying club where they each pay a monthly fee for schedule use of a couple planes owned by the "club". There are quite a few members who share in the expense, some members leave and then new members are added. It's not without expense but it is a whole lot cheaper than buying your own plane. Of course the down side is you have to be the first to get there if things go to hell in a hand basket. Maybe you could find a like minded bug out buddy with a plane or be willing to hijack a flight already preparing to leave the airport.


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## Caribou

Another option might be a pickup with a second oversized fuel tank underneath and/or an additional tank that can be placed in the bed. Even so I expect that you will have to acquire fuel on a trip of that length. How far is it?

Also a good set of road maps that includes all States on your line of travel and those adjacent to those States.


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## ZoomZoom

C FL to Bowling Green has to be somewhere around 800 miles.



gabbyj310 said:


> I would like to here some suggestions on how to get from point "A" to point "B" safely????:scratch


The most effective solution IMHO is to recognize the threat before the masses and get out before everyone else does. Even if it's just an hour or 2, if you can get in front you have a chance to get out.

I'd avoid I-95 and I-75 and snake up through Alabama. I-95 is a bitch on a normal day and trying to get through Atlanta might not happen.

GPS units with real-time traffic maps are getting pretty cheap. _I got one for under $100 with real-time traffic and lifetime maps. _I'd suggest you invest in one of those as well as a CB radio and use those to monitor roads and shift your route if/as necessary.

Not sure what you're driving but a full tank of gas + (5) 5-gallon cans of fuel should get most any vehicle that distance.


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## hiwall

A 4x4 pickup or SUV would be a help as you could drive in the median or ditch if required. Keeping aware of the world situation might give you a little heads up before the masses. Also a very quick response where you hit the road earlier than most would be helpful. When you decide to go then just go - don't try to pack everything you own just go. Like said above an extra full gas tank or stored full gas cans that could be very quickly loaded would give you an advantage. The plane idea at first glance seems neat but I could see many possible problems with that plan.


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## TheLazyL

800 miles. Compact 4x4 I'd guess might your best option. As some posted something that could get thru interstate medians and cross country if need be.

My Plan A is bugging in. Plan B is a 400 mile trip with my mule pulling a trailer. 2 tanks of gas and a 16 hour trip. 32 hours for your trip may be a bit much.

AR rack under the roof. SSB CB. 4x4 with High/low and locking rear axle. Roof is aluminum and I can quickly add a car carrier on top for more carrying capacity.


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## Cotton

What starts as a 20 hour drive could just as easily end up a 200 day walk or anything in between. Every mile will be full of danger. Skills, knowledge and the ability to improvise will give you chance when plans go out the window.

If faced with your situation… no reason to stay and every reason to attempt such a journey. I would familiarize myself with every transportation hub, rail hub, small airport, river system, transportation choke point and geographic choke point between myself and KY. 

I would also familiarize myself with any means of transportation I may encounter. Whether a flat bottom aluminum boat, a tugboat, a farm tractor or a semi truck, you get the gist here.

Knowledge and skills give you options to get home and opportunities when you arrive. Now is the time to learn… the internet is cheap! Imho…


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## IlliniWarrior

total crapshoot .... 800 miles could be nothing with the correct timing and under certain SHTF conditions .... you could make it to your KY located BOL and spend 2-3 days getting prepared before the brunt of the SHTF hits home .... then again, you might not make it more than a few miles without being turned back at a roadblock ....

you don't mention any dependents joining the bug out ... don't mention your present FL bug in conditions .... and above all, you don't give any personal info on your physical capability ....

like I stated first - total gamble - if you don't have anything to lose and feeling lucky .... give it a shot ......


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## LincTex

Caribou said:


> Another option might be a pickup with a second oversized fuel tank underneath and/or an additional tank .


Under bed total = 76 gallons. 
Pulling a trailer @ 17 mpg = ~1,292 miles

An added 55 gallon drum in the bed adds another 935 miles


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## Starcreek

Un-doable.
Cities to go through might include: Macon, Atlanta, Birmingham, Huntsville, Chattanooga, Nashville......

Trying to "snake" around them would not only add hours (days?) to your journey, but also expose you to untold dangers in the form of dead end roads, bridges out, hostile locals, etc.

I live in the South, and about 2 years ago I found out that the traffic lights of a large city's bedroom community were all being rewired to connect to a central location in the city -- courtesy of funds from Dept. of Homeland Security, if I'm not mistaken. Point is, in the event of a major disaster or civil disturbance, the government can shut down or divert traffic from any major artery in the city. Have you noticed all the concrete barriers in the highways now? There IS no "going up the median" or turning around to get off the highway.

If you want my opinion, I would just MOVE NOW to your BOL. Find work in Kentucky. The cost of living there is way lower than it is in most of Florida.

Just my 2c.


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## LincTex

Starcreek said:


> Trying to "snake" around them would not only add hours (days?) to your journey, but also expose you to untold dangers in the form of dead end roads, bridges out, hostile locals, etc.


As far as travelling goes, this is your only option. yes, it takes longer - but it is FAR safer then getting stuck on a freeway


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## Caribou

LincTex said:


> As far as travelling goes, this is your only option. yes, it takes longer - but it is FAR safer then getting stuck on a freeway


Seventeen bumper to bumper lanes all going the same way with people changing lanes and others stalled along the road. Impressive.


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## hiwall

Obviously none of us really know what to expect or even if you would ever have to 'bug-out'. We are all just guessing and what each of us picture in our minds are very likely way different scenarios. Realistically if you ever did need to 'bug-out' the odds are good that you would have plenty of time to decide and to actually make the move. There could be scenarios where you would have no time at all or very little (like a huge tsunami or a terrorist nuke in Miami or something).


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## Caribou

hiwall said:


> Obviously none of us really know what to expect or even if you would ever have to 'bug-out'. We are all just guessing and what each of us picture in our minds are very likely way different scenarios. Realistically if you ever did need to 'bug-out' the odds are good that you would have plenty of time to decide and to actually make the move. There could be scenarios where you would have no time at all or very little (like a huge tsunami or a terrorist nuke in Miami or something).


Depending on where it was and which way the wind was blowing I might want to hunker down for a nuclear event.

The worse case scenario as far as a tsunami would be if the fissure on La Palma Island in the Canaries gave away. I'm guessing that about a third of the island is expected to slide off into the Atlantic. With a 300' tsunami heading for the east and gulf coasts at jetliner speed I wouldn't want to be anywhere in Florida or within a hundred miles or more of the coast. With about 3900 miles from Florida to the Canaries I would want to be on the road within minutes of hearing about an earthquake, volcanic action, or any other seismic activity that mentioned La Palma or the Canary Islands.

The highest point in Florida is 345ft at Lakewood Park. There is no place in that State I'd want to ride out a tsunami. The Lituya Bay tsunami in 1958 was 1720ft and was of the same type that the La Palma tsunami will be. Three hundred feet is by no means the upper limit for a tsunami generated from La Palma. The airplane option is looking a lot better to me.


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## gabbyj310

When we had all of the storms several years ago,I didn't have my BOL at the time,but I left very early and beat the traffic just NE of Atlanta to stay with family.
I was told to buy a " trucker's almanac",that they showed all of the back roads. I am looking at a 4wd truck now and hope to find someone that can add me an extra tank. I usually travel alone with my 9mm(being ex-law enforcement I can and will use it if need be in a second).Even tho I am a senior citizen,I work and stay pretty fit. One reason(besides family being close by)in Ky is location,location,location...but there is NO way I can make half the money I make on the ships,so it's a retirement home, BOL home!I won't think twicw about leaving,just hope I'm on dry land when it does happen.I can swim but not that far!!!! I kinda of like the plane idea but...learn to fly then just a small plane to make it to Ky,ahhhh the cost could buy a lot of preps.I do like that little car on here!!! I also thought small Harley,but it's been years since I drove one.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

HMmmm.....


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## smaj100

Jim what kinda range/cargo capacity do those things have?


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## TheLazyL

IlliniWarrior said:


> total crapshoot ....like I stated first - total gamble - if you don't have anything to lose and feeling lucky .... give it a shot ......


I agree. Traveling on a road, especially interstates is not ideal.

Example.

Small Town north of us had a 2 man Police Department. County Sheriff was in pursuit and radio ahead to the small Town.

Deputy Town Marshal tried to the block the road with his car, didn't work. Fleeing subject just drove around the road block.

Town Marshal evidently had more experience. Marshal also used his car to block the road, on a bridge, on the bottom side of a hill. Fleeing subject had no where to go.

I said all of this to say this. Roads have too many choke points that can be quickly blocked and you wouldn't know it until it's too late.

Traveling cross country. It would be harder for someone to anticipate and block your way. Safer but will take you longer.

Wasn't it C Company during the Vietnam war that mutinied? Their Lieutenant would never allow the Company to follow established trails and road ways. They had to cut their trails. The Companies mortality rate was lower then any other Company and they didn't get ambushed. Then they got a new Lieutenant that ordered them to take the easy way, use the trails instead of cutting their own, ambushes and mortality rate went up.


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## TheLazyL

gabbyj310 said:


> ....I do like that little car on here!!! ....


Kawasaki Mule. Local Town has an annual garage sale weekend. While the majority are fighting the traffic (and a few accidents), I'm cruising around Town with zero problems. :2thumb:


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## PopPop

If a true state wide or regional SHTF event and you don't leave early, you would never get there by ground transport.


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## readytogo

Since I was here in Miami during Andrew in 92 I can honestly tell you that if you wait too long to bug-out you`ll never make it in a dire situation, that’s number one in any major city with super highways all around and number two which has been my idea for some time now is a well maintain and good fuel economy truck with a good size fuel cell to pack a few things and get the hell out if told to do so, I have a small lot in Tx, desert, but is mine or maybe I get something else near someday if I live long enough, just hope and pray that I don`t have to pack anytime soon.


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## gabbyj310

Love the parachute car!!!!! Now if it would just go the distance.Hop over Atlanta,Nashville traffic wow what a way to go (weather permitting)!!! I want one regardless,Where can you get info on it?


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## Caribou

gabbyj310 said:


> Love the parachute car!!!!! Now if it would just go the distance.Hop over Atlanta,Nashville traffic wow what a way to go (weather permitting)!!! I want one regardless,Where can you get info on it?


There is plenty of info on the net. Here is a link to wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_parachute

You can't haul a great deal with them but if you get one set up for two people then you can haul more. The main drawback is the speed as you max out around 25 to 35 mph. If you have With a 15 mph headwind you double your travel time where if your plane travels at 150 mph a 15 mph headwind only increases your travel time by 10%.

There are certain cost benefits. You don't need an airfield to take off so storing this in your garage, in a trailer, or an outbuilding are great options.

I don't think they have a great range due to their weight restrictions but their ease of landing and taking off would make them amenable to fuel stashes. I would suggest that these stashes be staged at around half of the expected range due to possible headwinds and the potential for your stash being found and your having to push on.


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## LincTex

gabbyj310 said:


> I also thought small Harley,but it's been years since I drove one.


My 1993 Sportster 1200 got 65 mpg. No Sh*t.
In 42,000 miles I had to buy one $9 part. VERY reliable machine.



smaj100 said:


> Jim what kinda range/cargo capacity do those things have?


TERRIBLE!!!!

They max out around 20 MPH, but burn about 5 gallons an hour. That's like 4 MPG!! And you can't haul much......


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## Woody

800 miles is quite a truck in a bad situation. I'm a bug in guy but do have one suggestion.

Stay the hell as far away from any large city/highway as you can!!! Reason one? The picture of 17 lanes in one direction stopped. You have to figure at least half the city residents will take to the highway to escape, it is the only route they know. The other half will be taking all the smaller roads parallel or near the highways. And it is not just the traffic flowing, one accident and you are screwed. One accident causes another as someone tries to get around, which causes another one, which.... Pretty soon you have a big fight going on about who is the knucklehead instead of trying to clear it and get moving again. Bad situation and you are stuck sitting there, trapped.

Next is traffic control. The authorities have limited resources. They will not be able to go too far out of the main road system to control things. They won't have to if they can control the main roads/intersections. They will not be able to block or restrict access to all minor roads way out of town. Yes, you will have a lot of traffic on them, as others think like you do. You can only hope all the morons took the highway and the folks just looking to get out of Dodge were smart enough to research a small road to escape.

Last, if you do plan a rural route, have lots of options available. That truckers map sounds like a great investment.


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## Marcus

I will point out that Hurricane Rita in Houston provided a likely traffic scenario. Since this hurricane came so soon after Katrina, more people than normal chose to evacuate (~2.5 million.)
The major evacuation routes were I-45, US 290, US 59, and I-10. While I have no first hand knowledge of how bad the traffic was on I-10, I do know it was a nightmare on I-45.
Cars that left Houston full of gas ran out of fuel along the interstate. There were 100 mile long traffic jams. Cars that left late averaged 1 MPH until they gave up.
Gas stations ran out of gas along the I-45 corridor *for almost 150 miles.*
I live over 200 miles away and we still saw traffic roughly double normal even though I live 15 miles off of one of the major evacuation routes.

The takeaways I'd suggest:
1. Leave as early as possible. Living on the north side of whatever town/city is best for a quicker getaway.
2. Take lots of fuel. Think double or triple the normal amount for that distance.
3. Take food and water and lots of it since your traveling time may be measured in days.
4. Take some sort of shelter.
5. As someone posted in another thread, be adaptable especially in regards to your route.
6. Have a Go To Hell plan. In other words, have a plan A, B, C, & D.
7. Maps, maps, and more maps. I'd suggest detailed county maps for every state along the way and maybe even neighboring states. Your goal is not to get there in the fastest or shortest route, but rather to get there *alive and in good health.*


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## LincTex

Marcus said:


> I will point out that Hurricane Rita in Houston provided a likely traffic scenario. ..I do know it was a nightmare on I-45.
> Cars that left Houston full of gas ran out of fuel along the interstate. There were 100 mile long traffic jams. Cars that left late averaged 1 MPH until they gave up.


I don't understand why more people didn't get off the freeway!

Anyone with 4-WD should have been boondockin' it!

Dead cars should be pushed in the ditch and left there!
'The Greater Good' - "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"


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## Woody

LincTex said:


> I don't understand why more people didn't get off the freeway!
> 
> Anyone with 4-WD should have been boondockin' it!
> 
> Dead cars should be pushed in the ditch and left there!
> 'The Greater Good' - "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"


You run into the same issues there too. Once on the freeway, you are pretty much gridlocked. First exit you come to, everyone else has the same idea, gridlock again.

Boondocking it, same thing. On whatever back road you choose to take, there will be at least one moron with a big fancy 4x4 that doesn't have a clue and is stuck, blocking it. If you get them unstuck and out of the way, you'll still run into another H2 with a moron behind the wheel.

Pushing someone's vehicle off the freeway? You KNOW there is going to be a physical confrontation there. Even if you can get enough folks on your side to get it off, there will be another one shortly up ahead. And while you are waiting and getting that vehicle out of the way, others letting their cars idle are running out of gas, adding to the problem.

I lived through it with Raleigh's ice event a few years ago. 23 3/4 hours to make a 35 minute commute. Started my commute on the 8 lane, all of sudden traffic stopped. Finally made it to the next exit, not happening. Morons in 4x4's causing more troubles.....

The further away you can stay, the better off you will be.


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## TheLazyL

Get yourself a topographical with a satellite overlay. Look for farm lanes, park trails & etc. when mapping out your route.

I've got one hanging in my radio shack. With circles showing the range of my GMRS, FRS and CB SSB radios.

http://www.mytopo.com

For our get home bag we have Rand McNally laminated road maps.

http://www.mapbooks4u.com/page/208627/


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## ZoomZoom

TheLazyL said:


> I've got one hanging in my radio shack.


You have a Radio Shack? My daughter buys headphones from your chain. They all suck _but at least they're good at replacing for the 30-day warranty.

_Shouldn't these maps be in your vehicle, not in a structure?


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## TheLazyL

ZoomZoom said:


> You have a Radio Shack? My daughter buys headphones from your chain. They all suck _but at least they're good at replacing for the 30-day warranty.
> 
> _Shouldn't these maps be in your vehicle, not in a structure?


In my case the "Radio Shack" is a room in my house. All of my communication gear is located here.

<Click Here> for examples of radio shacks.

The map I have hanging in my radio shack is 3' x 4'. Map is marked so we will know when a MAG member/patrol will back in or out of radio range. Every area house is shown, good for welfare, resource checks and for planning repeater and restocking stash locations.

Get home bags have less detailed maps with optional routes marked. None of these maps have the final BOL marked, stop short a Town way.


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## ZoomZoom

TheLazyL said:


> In my case the "Radio Shack" is a room in my house. All of my communication gear is located here.


I know/figured.

Just messing with you a little.

My radio shack has a stereo and turntable.

Y'all got a lot of nice gear.


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## Tweto

SHTF and you are stuck behind 1 million cars on the interstate with no chance to get out, or you took a back road and found that some locals blockaded the road to keep "city people" away, and the only other way to get to the BOL is on the major highway or interstate with the rest of the unprepared population. Stuck in a 100 mile long snake of vehicles stranded on the highway. After days of not moving and you now realize that this is now your new home for the foreseeable future, you have a flash back to when you said that learning to fly was too expensive. In a small aircraft that has the range to get you there it would have been a 6 or less hour flight. No traffic, no stop signs, no danger of being shot (if you fly above 3000' above ground level). Turn on the aircraft's ADF radio and listen to the local AM stations about all the mayhem below you. The thought in your head is "thank god I prepared correctly and spent the money to fly".


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## ZoomZoom

Tweto - Can you give us an idea of the time and money it takes to get a pilots license? Also, what are the costs for owning or leasing a small aircraft? If leasing or sharing an aircraft, what's the chances of getting it when wanted/needed?

_Had considered but not really looked into getting a license many years ago but didn't pursue as life (marriage, kids...) came first._


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## LincTex

ZoomZoom said:


> Tweto - Can you give us an idea of the time and money it takes to get a pilots license?


40 hours total, minimum.

Here, it's $100 (plane) + $25 (instructor), AND THE FAA requires a minimum of 20 hours of dual time, so that's $2500 to start with..
add another $2000 for 20 hours of solo time.
~$200 for the checkride
~$80 medical
~$200 books & supplies

If you have amazing skills and can study hard at home, You can do it for $5,000


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## tsrwivey

LincTex said:


> 40 hours total, minimum.
> 
> Here, it's $100 (plane) + $25 (instructor), AND THE FAA requires a minimum of 20 hours of dual time, so that's $2500 to start with..
> add another $2000 for 20 hours of solo time.
> ~$200 for the checkride
> ~$80 medical
> ~$200 books & supplies
> 
> If you have amazing skills and can study hard at home, You can do it for $5,000


That's a conservative estimate. A note here, learning to fly is covering a lot of hard material. It's an in depth study of weather, aerodynamics, engine operation, instruments, radios, navigation, etc. to be honest, I don't know that I'm smart enough to pass that test. It's even more learning & testing to be able fly in low visibility, at night, or in the clouds. Don't get me started on the costs of owning a plane (hangars, annuals, maintenance, radios, parts, headphones, insurance, fuel, & various miscellaneous necessities). They're like having another child. An expensive one. An ex-wife would be cheaper. 15 years ago hubby's plane (paid for, no note or rent) was costing us $600 a month in hanger rental (and by hanger I mean a roof over some dirt with some metal poking up out of the ground to tie the plane to), fuel, & insurance alone. He now has a more expensive plane (paid for) & owns a hanger. Not sure what it costs now, I don't tally it up unless there's a disagreement about who's spending too much money. Hubby is a smart man, he hasn't approached that topic in 15 years. :rofl:


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## Tweto

ZoomZoom said:


> Tweto - Can you give us an idea of the time and money it takes to get a pilots license? Also, what are the costs for owning or leasing a small aircraft? If leasing or sharing an aircraft, what's the chances of getting it when wanted/needed?
> 
> _Had considered but not really looked into getting a license many years ago but didn't pursue as life (marriage, kids...) came first._


All you will need is a Sport pilot license. 20 hours training, no medical required or biannual flight reviews (check rides with an instructor every 2 years). What this gets you is unlimited VFR flying (Visual Flight Rules) or in another words you have to be able to see where you are going. What you do need is a valid drivers license and an airplane of 1320 pound or less, 2 passenger, and limited to only 140mph. The aircraft price can be any where from $10,000 to $120,000. A well maintained $20,000 will give you everything you need.

I currently own a Cessna 172 and I will tell you what my expenses are;
Annual inspection is $300 plus parts.
Insurance is Avemco for $900 a year for full coverage.
Hangar expense is $1100 a year. (hanger expenses vary greatly from one area to another)
There is no property tax here in Nebraska.
Fuel burn is 8 gallon an hour and the 100LL fuel is running just under $5 a gallon. Note; for a sport flyable aircraft you will see about 4 gallons an hour.

With a Sport pilot license, you will have the basic skills to fly larger aircraft in an emergency such as SHTF.

I have owned aircraft for almost 30 years and every time I hear people talking about how expensive aircraft are, I ask them what aircraft do they own and it's always some fuel injected, turbo charged, retractable gear, with a variable pitch prop. For these people the expenses are high, simple aircraft are cheap and more dependable.

Once you get past the initial expense of training, owning and flying an aircraft can be comparable to buying a new car.


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## smaj100

Gabby,

Are you prior military? I know from your previous posts you work with the big boats. If you have gibill, post 9/11 gi bill or possibly VA training will pay for flight training.


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## gabbyj310

I do work on the big ships and I am a US Merchant Marine...but......we aren't reconized by the military..Yes we are considered the :4th arm of defense and we carry military personnel and everything under the sun for them. Yes we get shot at and chased by pirates,more Merchant Marine lost their lives in all of the wars,but still no one considered us "Proper" military.We have to have a US Coast Guard phyiscal and certain test but we get NO benifits from the government!They call us "Private Contractors"!!!!:gaah:


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## Starcreek

Tweto said:


> There is no property tax here in Nebraska.


What do you mean by that ^?
I googled it and got this:
http://www.revenue.nebraska.gov/PAD/forms/Nebr_Personal_Prop_Return.pdf

(Just curious, because I would LOVE to escape property tax!)


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## Tweto

Starcreek said:


> What do you mean by that ^?
> I googled it and got this:
> http://www.revenue.nebraska.gov/PAD/forms/Nebr_Personal_Prop_Return.pdf
> 
> (Just curious, because I would LOVE to escape property tax!)


The post was about aircraft. About 20 years ago, the state went from a straight property tax to a depreciated 5 year property tax. After 5 years NO PROPERTY TAX. I was talking about my expenses in the post, and since I have owned an aircraft longer then 5 years, no tax. Before that I was paying about $1200 a year.

The state found that they were loosing money taxing aircraft (state expenses were more then the revenue they brought in) Most aircraft are owned by corporations with companies located in non tax states, and very few are privately owned by a Nebraska taxable residents. The last time I checked, there were only a few hundred privately owned aircraft in Nebraska.

There is still property tax on house's etc.. My home property tax is $3400 a year. Nebraska has the same property tax rate as New York city (the highest in the country).


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## smaj100

Cessna 172's have a range +/- 750NM with a cruise speed of 140mph/120knots. Flight planning from Daytona via Anniston (to bypass Atlanta Airspace) to Bowling green is 560NM. That gives you almost 200 miles of reserve based on weather/wind. You should be able to make that trip on a single tank easy and in a no wind condition (not realistic) 4hrs 40 mins. I'd seriously consider that as a viable option to get to a BOL. All other cost factors involved a lease or group buy could be another viable option. That would give you a little tighter control over possible emergency needs to bug out. A preplanned cache at the hanger in a locker or what not, leave the house at the 1st sign of danger straight to the field, preflight, fuel, and gone.


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## TheLazyL

Thought on flying to BOL.

General agreement is roads will be packed, hence the thought of an airplane. Since the roads will be packed how will you get to the airport?

And once you get to the airport wouldn't the airport be congested too?

And if you do manage to take off, where are you going to land? At another hopefully non-congested airport and drive to the BOL (where are you going to get the vehicle?) on hopefully non-congested roads? Or will you have the additional costs to build and maintain a landing area at the BOL?


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## smaj100

Lazy good thoughts and questions. Most planes can be fitted with new recovery parachute devices. If I had to after flying over near my bol airport and made the decision landing and getting out to the bol was not feasible, I would consider making it a one way trip for the plane, coming slow near my bol, popping the chute and floating down and walking on. 

Gabbys mentioned family at or near the bol so that would be a feasible option for pickup from the airport. I would definately consider alternate off site landing locations, open farm fields, back roads with enough room to come in. There are many private/ smaller airfields capable of landing birds at outside the bowling green city footprint. And obviously depending on what S has htf it may not be chaotic in that region as where you are coming from.

Honestly I think in a 4-8hr window of leaving one local for another most of the sheep will still be standing around scratching their heads going whats going on or happening, 12-24hrs thugs will begin running amuk, and sheep will be scattering and panicking. Just my $.02 worth.


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## hiwall

In most any bug out situation have plenty of cash on hand. It can get you out of many bad situations plus you can not depend on the credit/debit cards working when you need them the most.


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## LastOutlaw

Personally I think it's not doable...unless you got out way ahead of the hoard. Even on the back roads. I35 would be madness to try... Daytona, Savannah, Charleston, etc. Way too many large cities to try to get through or around. Back roads would be doubtful as well. I would think that small communities would quickly block access for their own protection. I suggest that you try to network with a local mutual assistance group in Florida and prep there as well as you have at home. I have a 6 hour drive to my bol and 2 major cities to work around or through. I'm being realistic that unless I got out way ahead of the hoard I could not get there. I also have a mag 2 hours away that I'm networked with and one city to bypass and might not even get there. I'm prepped at 3 different locations.


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## TheLazyL

Few years back I was looking seriously at gyrocopters.

Short take off requirements and a drop in no runway landing.

$30,000 for a used two seater.
no storage.
$100 a month hanger rental (small local airport)
$3,000 for license and no local Instructors.
$35 an hour operational cost.

I gave up on the idea


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## Caribou

I would imagine that if you had a plane and two residences that you would have some means of getting between your residences. Assuming that this was not the first time that you had flown between these two places then your system would be in place. Ideally you would have your own strip but if you had a hanger then you could leave a car, motorcycle or other contrivance there.

Friends of mine each had a remote cabin when they met. These cabins are on lakes and are only accessible by float plane or in the winter by skis. They purchased a house on the road system that is also on a lake. Then they picked up a Piper Cub on floats. 

My next door neighbor has skis for his plane and once the snow has covered the tundra he just parks his plane in front of the house. Many small aircraft around here have what are referred to as "tundra tires". These are large tires designed for landing at rough, unprepared fields in roadless areas. These tires have more drag so they would reduce your range a bit but the options for landing would be greatly improved. There are work arounds for most problems.


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## LincTex

Caribou said:


> I would imagine that if you had a plane and two residences that you would have some means of getting between your residences. Assuming that this was not the first time that you had flown between these two places then your system would be in place.


This part of Texas is littered with private grass runways. Even if you don't have your OWN runway, if you could land at the one closest to your house and just abandon your plane on the private runway once you got there & hike the rest of the way....

Actually, it would be best to make sure you talk to the owner in advance and tell them you "may have to land there in an emergency" one day...


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## tsrwivey

TheLazyL said:


> And once you get to the airport wouldn't the airport be congested too?
> 
> And if you do manage to take off, where are you going to land? At another hopefully non-congested airport and drive to the BOL (where are you going to get the vehicle?) on hopefully non-congested roads? Or will you have the additional costs to build and maintain a landing area at the BOL?


Most private pilots use little hole in the wall airports. Our plane is currently hangared in an airport in a poor town of 6000 people 10 miles from our house. There are airports just like it all over the country. These little gems are hiding in plain site on the outskirts of small towns everywhere that most people don't even know are there. There aren't any commercial passenger flights coming or going out of them. Just recreational pilots, crop dusters, pipeline pilots, & maybe some private company planes. Since most people don't know they even exist, they're not likely to be very crowded.


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## Tweto

I don't remember which forum I was on, but I had a conversation about flying small planes with a guy that lived in LA. He said that there were no airports for small aircraft in LA except the commercial airports (maybe 4 total). I went to my sectional (map) and counted 31 airports inside the city limits.

When talking to non general aviation flying people about flying I have to remind myself that flying general aviation aircraft and the world they fly in is as foreign as the planet mars is to non flyers. People that don't fly and travel in general aviation aircraft do not have even the smallest comprehension of what small aircraft are capable of.

I have been in and out of hundreds of grass strips that have been as short as 1000' feet and 50' wide. One of the strips was a rolling, hilly 50' wide grass strip with 8' tall corn on on side and a tree line on the other side and that was when I barely had 100 hours.

If I had to BO during in a SHTF event, I would not even consider driving. One of the major reasons I learned how fly was because of an emergency such as a SHTF event. Several years ago, I was in Boston on a Friday night trying to make my commercial flight at 7PM at Logan international airport. I left Manchester NH at noon. The traffic on the interstate was moving at walking speed an it took 7 hours to get to my flight. While I was sitting on the interstate a Cessna 172 flying right down the interstate at 140mph and disappeared out of site in just a min. My thought was "what the hell am I doing on the ground".


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## LincTex

Tweto said:


> .... I had a conversation about flying small planes with a guy that lived in LA. He said that there were no airports for small aircraft in LA except the commercial airports (maybe 4 total). I went to my sectional (map) and counted 31 airports inside the city limits.


He was obviously NOT an EAA or AOPA member!


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## oldasrocks

Hot air balloon? Sherman tank? Bulldozer with a road gear? Here in Missouri the only way to go cross country would be a horse.


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## BillS

gabbyj310 said:


> My BOL is in Kentucky. I have my mini farm,supplies and add to my readiness every time I go back home.But I LIVE in Fl,to be close to my job and I have to say, I do so enjoy the weather.I've often thought how would I get all the way from central Fl to my place in Ky???? To drive up I95 or I75 would be next to impossible:dunno: Even the back roads may be hard to get pass unless you know them very well(I don't).I even thought of a small private plane and taking lessons but that expense is way beyond me.If things get "that" bad I want to be in KY for sure!!!!!!I'm sure I'm not the only one that has a BOL a good distance from where they live every day. I would like to here some suggestions on how to get from point "A" to point "B" safely????:scratch


I think the best thing to do is go by boat to the Florida panhandle, Alabama, or Georgia before you drive north by motorcycle. You would need to go by taking county and state roads. You would need to avoid interstates and major cities.

The biggest problem is Florida itself. It's a peninsula with 20 million people and it's 447 miles north to south. I just don't like anyone's chances to getting out of there after it hits the fan and getting all the way home to Kentucky.


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## Caribou

BillS said:


> I think the best thing to do is go by boat to the Florida panhandle, Alabama, or Georgia before you drive north by motorcycle. You would need to go by taking county and state roads. You would need to avoid interstates and major cities.
> 
> The biggest problem is Florida itself. It's a peninsula with 20 million people and it's 447 miles north to south. I just don't like anyone's chances to getting out of there after it hits the fan and getting all the way home to Kentucky.


Very interesting concept. If you combined this with a truck and, possibly, a boat trailer stored near shore you would have viable alternative.


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## BillS

I wouldn't want to go through Georgia. Atlanta is approximately in the middle of the state two thirds of the way up. The Atlanta metro area has 6 million people in it and is made up of 39 counties. That's just too big of a population to go through.

Alabama has 4 cities of 200,000 or more. It might be a problem going around them too but it's still a lot better than Georgia.

The best way might be to go through Alabama to northern Mississippi and western Tennessee on the way there.


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## Starcreek

BillS said:


> I think the best thing to do is go by boat to the Florida panhandle, Alabama, or Georgia before you drive north by motorcycle. You would need to go by taking county and state roads. You would need to avoid interstates and major cities.
> 
> The biggest problem is Florida itself. It's a peninsula with 20 million people and it's 447 miles north to south. I just don't like anyone's chances to getting out of there after it hits the fan and getting all the way home to Kentucky.


The western part of Florida has agricultural checkpoints along the Sewanee River.....easy to stop people from crossing there to go northward. I don't know about the eastern part of the state.


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## Cotton

The Tennessee river is within 100 miles of Bowling Green. The Tennessee river is connected to Mobile bay via a man made canal in northwest Alabama. If you leave Fl by boat... just sayin. You can travel almost all the way to your bol via water.


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## Caribou

I like this thread because it not only points out that there are multiple ways to bug out but also the importance of local knowledge.


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## zilte

I think it's a horrible idea to attempt, actually. The roads will be full of ambushes, roadblocks, stalled vehicles. Better arrange to have your BOL a lot closer to home. I mean walking distance, in one night. Don't try to go there (or move around after you get there) during daylight hours. it's just too risky. This is not a country of ignorant, poverty stricken rice growers or goatherds. There's millions of well equipped men here and many of them will be very desperate if shtf. It won't be peaceful, like the Great Depression was.


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## zilte

I think that it will be very dangerous to attempt to get to your plane in daylight, if shtf. If any desperate people are around, they'll probably be looking to force somebody like you to fly them somewhere, or just shoot you and take your stuff, same as they would if you were driving a car. Same thing at the point where you land. they'll hear you coming from quite a ways off, so you'd better do your flying and landing at night. Without lights and I bet that's something that you aint practiced very much, nor are you going to do so. a lot of military pilots are dead because they tried it, with choppers even.


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## smaj100

Well I had typed up a length post and it disappeared. I think a few will panic initially when the shtf but the masses will still be standing around 24-48hrs after depending on what kind of S has htf. 

I like this post that it has grown into a great discussion about several of the different types, modes of transportation and the reasons for them. I like the idea of water if you are in fact near the coast or a waterway to travel on. I think there a few factors though fuel being one of them. In Gabby's circumstance depending on where the BOL is in relationship to bowling green. The closest on a quick check you can get is 100 miles, that could turn into a heck of a walk unless prearranged ground transport was available. How long would it take you to get from the E coast of Fl to the W coast to put in the water. How fast can you travel up the coast to Mobile to put into the river system? Once in the river system I think you would be able to travel quickly.

Whatever mode or combinations of modes you choose, if at all feasible take a few days of vacation and make a practice run. Plan your routes, fastest, most direct, population avoidance, and then throw yourself a curve ball. Depending on your age, physical conditioning an endurance or off road motorbike might be a viable option to get to your primary mode of transportation. These are small, very maneuverable and capable of getting in and out of tight spots. 

A piper super cub with an extra fuel pod would add 23 gallons and cargo capacity to a 2 seater aircraft with a legendary rough field landing capability.


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## Tweto

zilte said:


> I think that it will be very dangerous to attempt to get to your plane in daylight, if shtf. If any desperate people are around, they'll probably be looking to force somebody like you to fly them somewhere, or just shoot you and take your stuff, same as they would if you were driving a car. Same thing at the point where you land. they'll hear you coming from quite a ways off, so you'd better do your flying and landing at night. Without lights and I bet that's something that you aint practiced very much, nor are you going to do so. a lot of military pilots are dead because they tried it, with choppers even.


Wow, I'm impressed with your knowledge of general aviation. How long have you been flying? What do you fly? ATP license?


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## smaj100

zilte said:


> I think that it will be very dangerous to attempt to get to your plane in daylight, if shtf. If any desperate people are around, they'll probably be looking to force somebody like you to fly them somewhere, or just shoot you and take your stuff, same as they would if you were driving a car. Same thing at the point where you land. they'll hear you coming from quite a ways off, so you'd better do your flying and landing at night. Without lights and I bet that's something that you aint practiced very much, nor are you going to do so. a lot of military pilots are dead because they tried it, with choppers even.


Tweto, I think you nailed it. Z have you ever been in a military chopper? I doubt it or you would know that we train and fly at night more than in the day. And the number of accidents/deaths are not directly linked or attributed to night time flying. It is a higher risk mission on the risk assessment based on flying unaided, night vision or FLIR. I've spent the last 12 yrs flying Apache helicopters and teaching kids to fly it. Depending on the weather night time flying is better with usually calmer winds.

Just because someone can you hear coming from a distance doesn't mean they will know where you are going to land or your final destination. And at an average speed of 120mph most aircraft are going to travel and arrive at the destination much faster than anyone on the ground can get to and intercept you.

Stick to what you know and I'm guessing flying isn't it.


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## Starcreek

Cotton said:


> The Tennessee river is within 100 miles of Bowling Green. The Tennessee river is connected to Mobile bay via a man made canal in northwest Alabama. If you leave Fl by boat... just sayin. You can travel almost all the way to your bol via water.


That would require going through numerous locks operated by the Corps of Engineers, so as long as the government didn't mind your travel, you'd be okay.


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## millertimedoneright

gabbyj310 said:


> I do work on the big ships and I am a US Merchant Marine...but......we aren't reconized by the military..Yes we are considered the :4th arm of defense and we carry military personnel and everything under the sun for them. Yes we get shot at and chased by pirates,more Merchant Marine lost their lives in all of the wars,but still no one considered us "Proper" military.We have to have a US Coast Guard phyiscal and certain test but we get NO benifits from the government!They call us "Private Contractors"!!!!:gaah:


I'm also a merchant mariner. I work on towboats. I have run from Brownsville to pascugula Mississippi and from New Orleans up to wood river Illinois.


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## millertimedoneright

Marcus said:


> I will point out that Hurricane Rita in Houston provided a likely traffic scenario. Since this hurricane came so soon after Katrina, more people than normal chose to evacuate (~2.5 million.)
> The major evacuation routes were I-45, US 290, US 59, and I-10. While I have no first hand knowledge of how bad the traffic was on I-10, I do know it was a nightmare on I-45.
> Cars that left Houston full of gas ran out of fuel along the interstate. There were 100 mile long traffic jams. Cars that left late averaged 1 MPH until they gave up.
> Gas stations ran out of gas along the I-45 corridor *for almost 150 miles.*
> I live over 200 miles away and we still saw traffic roughly double normal even though I live 15 miles off of one of the major evacuation routes.
> 
> The takeaways I'd suggest:
> 1. Leave as early as possible. Living on the north side of whatever town/city is best for a quicker getaway.
> 2. Take lots of fuel. Think double or triple the normal amount for that distance.
> 3. Take food and water and lots of it since your traveling time may be measured in days.
> 4. Take some sort of shelter.
> 5. As someone posted in another thread, be adaptable especially in regards to your route.
> 6. Have a Go To Hell plan. In other words, have a plan A, B, C, & D.
> 7. Maps, maps, and more maps. I'd suggest detailed county maps for every state along the way and maybe even neighboring states. Your goal is not to get there in the fastest or shortest route, but rather to get there *alive and in good health.*


I was on I-10 during that evacuation. It was horrible. Of all things I chose to be in a manual transmission truck to make it even worse. I personally seen commercial trucks shoving small cars off the interstate cuz they were in the way. I seen people having major medical problems and dying cuz they had no way to reach medical assistance. People were selling bbq sandwiches and gallons of water for 20 bucks each. Lines at gas stations were 2-3 miles long. Complete chaos. During a shtf situation it will be 20x worse. My advice is either get out ahead of everyone else or stay put for a few days minimum. Have lots of food, water, and ammunition. 4x4 truck with extra fuel and supplies is a plus. Bring camping supplies cuz it's very possible you will be there more than one night. Pull way in the woods way away from the congestion to sleep or you will wake up to all your supplies being gone. Do not trust anyone. Stay away from large populations best you can. Learn alternate routes. I would also suggest either a small moped, dirt bike, or Atv in the bed of your bov in case you need to ditch the vehicle. Have a bob already mounted on your secondary vehicle in case you need to leave in a hurry. Most will say food and water are most important. After what I saw during Rita imho I would say guns and ammunition are most important in a big out situation followed by water, then food, and then shelter.


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## TheLazyL

Back to the OP.

If I'm understanding the situation correctly. OP lives in a metropolis area and wonders how to get to a BOL 800 miles away.

Flying? How's he going to get to an airport thru the blocked highways?

Get out of Dodge before the hordes. OP has a crystal ball?

Wait a few days after SHTF then leave. Abandoned vehicles mysteriously leave the interstates?

How about renting a shelf storage unit within easy walking distance of the OP? OP can carry a light pack and bolt cutters to the storage unit. Restock at storage unit, larger pack, pickup bicycle or motorcycle and head towards BOL.

Depending on how large the metropolis is perhaps a second storage unit at the edge of the metropolis. More supplies and a bigger BO vehicle.

Around the 400 mile mark, another Storage unit.

OP doesn't have all of his eggs in one basket. May have to walk a ways (if at storage unit is compromised) but at least not the entire 800 miles.


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## Tirediron

I see no mention of the railway network, a dualsport motorcycle , with fairly quickly deployable rail guides and a wire or cable deflector, (for ambush wires, in case you go thru troll territory ) and perhaps a trailer, combined with some prepositioned storage. ??


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## smaj100

Tired, thats genius why do we forget the sometimes obvious things......


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## Cotton

I mentioned rail hubs but didn’t elaborate because it’s tricky. Trains carry lots of sensitive and dangerous items and since 9-11 we know who’s watching. Depending on the type of s in htf trains would probably keep running for a period of time, probably in direct government control.

Since schedules aren’t public knowledge… wouldn’t want to meet a train I didn’t expect while traveling on a rail. That said if someone (from observation) knew the local schedule and destination hitching a ride might be advisable. One might be able to cover long distances.

The other down side is that towns and cities grew up around rail lines. Major cities all have hubs. I wouldn’t want to end up on a train to no where… meaning its destination is a hub in a major city that may be impossible to walk out of.

In the end someone would need a lot of hard to acquire information to effectively utilize the rails. If on foot they are still better than a highway. imho


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## hiwall

Very limited rail lines in Florida.


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## Tweto

TheLazyL said:


> Back to the OP.
> 
> Flying? How's he going to get to an airport thru the blocked highways?
> 
> Don't confuse commercial airports with general aviation airports. Most general aviation airports are just a few hangars on a grass strip in farm country. They usually are not near any major highways. Even if the airport was near heavily populated areas, and very few are, would it be more difficult to go the 10 miles to the airport or the 800 miles by jammed highways to the BOL?
> 
> Here in Nebraska, an amazing number of farmers fly planes off their gravel roads in front of their farm houses. While I'm typing this, I can look out my window and see nothing but flat fields to the south, any one could land and take off a small plane on this.
> 
> All I can hope to do is to give people a little perspective on what 98% of the population know very little about.
> 
> BTW I just read today that a bill was introduced into the senate and the house (Feb 25) to eliminate the 3rd class medical for aircraft 6000 pounds or less and also allow IFR flying. This is for part 91 operations (non commercial) only. It is being backed by both parties and has a good chance of being past.


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## helicopter5472

Tweto said:


> TheLazyL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the OP.
> 
> Flying? How's he going to get to an airport thru the blocked highways?
> 
> Don't confuse commercial airports with general aviation airports. Most general aviation airports are just a few hangars on a grass strip in farm country. They usually are not near any major highways. Even if the airport was near heavily populated areas, and very few are, would it be more difficult to go the 10 miles to the airport or the 800 miles by jammed highways to the BOL?
> 
> Here in Nebraska, an amazing number of farmers fly planes off their gravel roads in front of their farm houses. While I'm typing this, I can look out my window and see nothing but flat fields to the south, any one could land and take off a small plane on this.
> 
> All I can hope to do is to give people a little perspective on what 98% of the population know very little about.
> 
> BTW I just read today that a bill was introduced into the senate and the house (Feb 25) to eliminate the 3rd class medical for aircraft 6000 pounds or less and also allow IFR flying. This is for part 91 operations (non commercial) only. It is being backed by both parties and has a good chance of being past.
> 
> 
> 
> "IFR" meaning I Follow Roads...:2thumb:
Click to expand...


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## HardCider

Great thread with great responses. Most events we prep for you might see the need to bugout early enough especially if you're loaded and ready 24-7 in a good 4x4. In a sudden large scale issue with mass panic I would not want to be in your shoes. I think I would rather take my chances in the swamps closer to home. Very few people would think to head south. Everyone thinks "I'll head to the mountains". You would have time to head north in a hurricane warning if you jumped early


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## Starcreek

HardCider said:


> Great thread with great responses. Most events we prep for you might see the need to bugout early enough especially if you're loaded and ready 24-7 in a good 4x4. In a sudden large scale issue with mass panic I would not want to be in your shoes. I think I would rather take my chances in the swamps closer to home. Very few people would think to head south. Everyone thinks "I'll head to the mountains". You would have time to head north in a hurricane warning if you jumped early


The Seminole Indians were (AFAIK) the only native tribe that was never fully defeated by the Americans. They hid out in the swamps. That might be a better idea than trying to reach a BOL in Kentucky.

The only doable plan I've seen so far, imo, is TheLazyL.....set up storage units with supplies, vehicles (even if it's only a moped), etc., along the bug-out route. Make it in several hops, rather than trying to get the whole way in one long trip. You'd need lots of maps, to navigate the circumference of a city like Atlanta.


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## LincTex

Tweto said:


> BTW I just read today that a bill was introduced into the senate and the house (Feb 25) to eliminate the 3rd class medical for aircraft 6000 pounds or less and also allow IFR flying. .


?? I need to research that.

Many IFR rated pilots STILL get themselves into a LOT of trouble when entering IMC... Just sayin'!!!


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## Tweto

LincTex said:


> ?? I need to research that.
> 
> Many IFR rated pilots STILL get themselves into a LOT of trouble when entering IMC... Just sayin'!!!


Here it is; the house bill is HR 1062, the senate bill is S.571. I received the info from AOPA e-mail.

I have several hundred hours of actual (actually in the clouds) and can't say that I have had any problems. I was trained in the clouds and that maybe the difference. I have been startled a few times flying at night when I have lost all reference to the ground and it takes a second or 2 to realize that I just flew into a cloud. I have learned not to panic, EVER!


----------



## TheLazyL

Tweto said:


> TheLazyL said:
> 
> 
> 
> Back to the OP.
> 
> Flying? How's he going to get to an airport thru the blocked highways?
> 
> Don't confuse commercial airports with general aviation airports. Most general aviation airports are just a few hangars on a grass strip in farm country....
> 
> 
> 
> The OP lives in a metropolis area. He will still need to navigate highways to get to your general aviation airport in farm country.
Click to expand...


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## LastOutlaw

Remember, within 24 hours on Sept 11 all aircraft were grounded.


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## gabbyj310

Wow!!!! some really great questions and great ideas going on here.I live just a few blocks from a small rural airport(TICO) in Titusville.Titusville is a nice small town,no where near the size of Orlando or even Merritt Island/Cocoa area.I usually keep my ears open to the general vibe and have left and or moved before things go "south",or in my case north.I keep a good size BOB ready(in case it's a major move)and several cans of gas. I keep my car full although I do want a 4X4 in the very near future.Got the good "truckers" map in case I have to use back roads.But there were many ideas that came across as real good things to do if I get caught. I like the plane deal because it's fast,but being that I can't fly hmmm a bit iffy right now. I really like the rivers/water route as I'm good with boats and can drive my own(if I could borrow or buy one in a hurry). I see less traffic and fewer problems than I75 for sure.I've been in/on all kinds of boats be they HUGE or the 10ft type you can carry over your head.I've been on and up most of the rivers and lakes.I think the first thing is to organize and GO before it gets out of control.Once done and I'm in my little place in the Kentucky hills,I can stay safe and pray it all passes soon !! If not I have the (some) knowledge and space to make a go of it and be there when the rest of the family arrives.If it's really bad then we can "hunker" down and SURVIVE!!!!Thanks for ALL of the ideas and suggestions!!!!


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## smaj100

good thing the flt to the BOL is right at 5hrs. I'da been heading for the airfield asap.


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## Marcus

gabbyj310 said:


> I really like the rivers/water route as I'm good with boats and can drive my own(if I could borrow or buy one in a hurry). I see less traffic and fewer problems than I75 for sure.I've been in/on all kinds of boats be they HUGE or the 10ft type you can carry over your head.I've been on and up most of the rivers and lakes.I think the first thing is to organize and GO before it gets out of control.Once done and I'm in my little place in the Kentucky hills,I can stay safe and pray it all passes soon !! If not I have the (some) knowledge and space to make a go of it and be there when the rest of the family arrives.If it's really bad then we can "hunker" down and SURVIVE!!!!Thanks for ALL of the ideas and suggestions!!!!


http://www.siteselection.com/ssinsider/images/pw090115big.gif

One of the things I'd ponder if I was planning to use the waterways is a boat dolly. There are numerous locks along that route, and it only takes one lock being out of commission for your plan to fail.

It might be wise to actually have 2 boats with one towing the other. The first boat would be used to get as far as possible. The second could be just a decent sized Jon boat and be equipped with a dolly system in case you had to go around a lock. Advantages to doing it this way include increased cargo capacity for hauling more supplies. I'd also suggest some sort of mountain bike with trailer be included or some other means of carrying supplies like a hand cart.


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## smaj100

This would get you around the locks or other obstacles??

Apparently these are real made by a company called sealegs.com Different levels of off road capability for different boat platforms. That would actually be brilliant to bypass certain types of obstacles.


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## jimLE

*i've seen this topic come up in other sites i dont know how many times..i got to thinking as i was reading reply after reply.no one suggested railroads, untill tired mentend it..if you cant get out by the way of roads or water ways across country.then try the railroads.and there's different types of railroad work trucks.some even have campers/sleepers on them.and i think that some of them have small kitchenetts to them..i seen a every day pick up with the railroad wheels on it one time.*


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## Marcus

Or this:


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## LincTex

Marcus said:


> Or this: http://d720043.u25.surftown.dk/images/NEW_COVER_PIC.jpg


My 18' Avenger jet boat (powered by an Oldsmobile 455) drank 20 gallons of Premium gasoline per hour.

How much fuel you think that baby burns?!?


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## LastOutlaw

jimLE said:


> *i've seen this topic come up in other sites i dont know how many times..i got to thinking as i was reading reply after reply.no one suggested railroads, untill tired mentend it..if you cant get out by the way of roads or water ways across country.then try the railroads.and there's different types of railroad work trucks.some even have campers/sleepers on them.and i think that some of them have small kitchenetts to them..i seen a every day pick up with the railroad wheels on it one time.*


Better be ready to jump off quickly... Gov may be using them to transport military equipment or people to Fema camps...lol


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## smaj100

Not sure about the one above this one, has 2 9gall tanks and a range of 160miles at 70mph in the air. That's about 8.8mpg. With a 600# payload that would make for plenty of extra gas and supplies to make a run. If you pre-positioned some fuel and supplies along the way near water that would make this almost a doable run.


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## Marcus

LincTex said:


> How much fuel you think that baby burns?!?


It's just a hovercraft that can fly for short distances (like over an obstacle.)
Duration is stated as 4 hours @ 35 mph with 12/18 gallons of fuel (differing specs found.) There are two engine options with the 240hp version able to carry 1000 lbs & payload for both versions is 1200 lbs in non-flight mode. Since the wings are detachable and only weigh 120 lbs, it makes sense to store them until needed. That adds a little bit to the range.

A quick guesstimate on a 1200 mile trip shows a weight of 810 lbs just for gas. Add in the wings and a 200 lb pilot, and you're at 1130 lbs. Add in the fuel cans, and you're probably left with a max of 50 lbs of gear. You'd probably have to tow some kind of fuel carrier just to make the trip feasible which would affect the range and speed.


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## smaj100

Holy crap those hovercraft things are running $170k+, you can get a piper super cub modified with extended fuel and off field gear and tires already for $100k. For the speed, range and unprepared landing surface I'd take the plane every time.....


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## hiwall

If you are going to spend so much money just quit your job and move to your BOL.


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## mojo4

hiwall said:


> If you are going to spend so much money just quit your job and move to your BOL.


Agreed!!! As the OP said she was a merchant marine. When not on runs just live at your BOL. My old neighbor worked on oil rigs in the ocean for 2 weeks at a time and would fly out and back. The cost of travel has got to be cheaper than maintaining a residence in Florida and a BOL property in Kentucky. If SHTF when out to sea you don't have to swing back by a Florida residence to grab gear. Maybe the boat may go north and jumping off along the SC or VA coast will be closer than south Florida starting point.


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## smaj100

Hiwall, I count myself very fortunate that we live at our BOL. I was just continuing to add information to the thread. The more information someone has, the better they can make a decision to help get them where they need to be.


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## Caribou

We have a lot of good options here. I feel that I could take a boat anywhere that there was enough water. Others are pilots where I am not. If I am flying a plane it is because the pilot just had a heart attack and I have suddenly become very religious. Still others will opt for one of several vehicle options. Whether we each decide on air, sea, or land will depend on or skills, or location, our destination, and the available transport. If you get where you're headed you made the right choice.


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## hiwall

It is interesting all the different possible suggestions that have been offered. 
All this discussion is about a possible future where everyone supposedly gets the same terrible news at the same time and all decide to evacuate Florida at the same time. Reasonably the only scenario that fits that is a hurricane and there is usually a rather long warning period involved with that scenario. If I was the OP I would listen to the news and not worry much about it.


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## Starcreek

hiwall said:


> It is interesting all the different possible suggestions that have been offered.
> All this discussion is about a possible future where everyone supposedly gets the same terrible news at the same time and all decide to evacuate Florida at the same time. Reasonably the only scenario that fits that is a hurricane and there is usually a rather long warning period involved with that scenario. If I was the OP I would listen to the news and not worry much about it.


That's probably correct. If something like a multiple-city terror attack, invasion, and something of that sort happens, people will be glued to their TV sets for the first day, which leaves a window of opportunity for bugging out.


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## smaj100

Even with hurricane notice, many folks assume they can ride it out or wait till they confirm its gonna smack em in the face. We see it over and over again with coastal cities when people wait till the last minute and full blown panic sets in.


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## Tweto

The science channel has been reporting on an island off the coast of Africa that has a high probability of a land slide that would cause a major tsunami to strike the East coast of the U.S. within 6 hours. News of this would have everyone on the road at once. If I remember correctly the waves would be in the 100-200 foot range. They said that it would flood the entire state of Florida and kill in the millions in the U.S. all the way up to Maine.

This could happen at anytime.


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## cowboyhermit

One of those questions I always seem to forget to ask, to those of you that have knowledge/experience with small planes (not ultra-lights), what kind of mileage (mpg) do they get? I know, there is no straight answer and there are too many factors but just some kind of idea or a range for a real world situation. Plus, how much does that range with distance generally (any idea on how much a takeoff-landing consumes alone).


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## LincTex

cowboyhermit said:


> ... those of you that have knowledge/experience with small planes,what kind of mileage (mpg) do they get? I know, there is no straight answer...


..

There is a straight answer, but "it depends" on gross weight (light/heavy) and headwind (Less MPG) or tailwind (better MPG)

A Cessna 150 (2 seats) with a "cruise prop" (versus "climb prop") will do 100 MPH at 5 GPH, so that's 20 miles per gallon

A Cessna 172 (4 seats) with a "cruise prop" will do 125-130 MPH at 8-8.5 GPH, so that's 15.5-16 MPG

A Piper Cherokee 140 will fly 130 MPH at 8 GPH... that's about 16-17 MPG

A piper Arrow will do 150 MPH at 11.5 GPH, that works out to be 13 MPG


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## smaj100

Don't forget a super cub Linc;

Piper super pa18 150 will cruise at 115mph at 11mpg factory cruise specs. With the added benefit of 200-500 take run and 350-900 feet of landing surface. That makes for a very small TO and landing footprint, with decent cruise and IMHO fuel economy that is much better than walking.


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## Caribou

Tweto said:


> The science channel has been reporting on an island off the coast of Africa that has a high probability of a land slide that would cause a major tsunami to strike the East coast of the U.S. within 6 hours. News of this would have everyone on the road at once. If I remember correctly the waves would be in the 100-200 foot range. They said that it would flood the entire state of Florida and kill in the millions in the U.S. all the way up to Maine.
> 
> This could happen at anytime.


This is La Palma Is. in the Canaries. In a 1949 eruption a fissure opened up that is over a meter wide, two to four meters deep, and runs for two miles. The Island is made up of a very porous rock. The concern is that heavy rains could add enough weight to cause this portion of the island to break off. An eruption or other seismic activity could likewise complete the fracture causing a major portion of the island to slide off into the Atlantic.

This tsunami will affect the entire Atlantic shoreline.


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## Woody

Lots of interesting thoughts and good discussions about how to get to a BOL! Most seemed to expand as they were discussed though. Go here, get this, have a backup here, or go here to change/refuel... 

I'm a member of the K.I.S.S. philosophy. The more working parts or links a plan has, the more chances for failure. Rather than be working on ways I could get 800 miles to a BOL, I would be spending time working on how I could make my present location my BOL. Or looking for one within walking distance. Or maybe just moving a few miles from where I am for a better BOL to live in? 

Is my current home the perfect BOL? Not at all. Is it better than some? Yup. Would I like to have a better one? You betcha!!! But it is what it is and I'm dealing with it. I've prepped as best I can for a majority of what I believe I might have to.


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## Cotton

Something come on Facebook about Harrison Ford crashing a small plane on a golf course that gave me an idea. 

A golf course of course! Many smaller towns have one, usually outside or on the outskirts. For anyone taking a small plane in a shtf situation… Not likely to be guarded, food, water and plenty of fuel (there’s always a few vehicles in the parking lot). Nice long fairways to land on… As long as you don’t pick one with a water hazard! 

Might be a good place to rest or restock!


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## labotomi

Tweto said:


> The science channel has been reporting on an island off the coast of Africa that has a high probability of a land slide that would cause a major tsunami to strike the East coast of the U.S. within 6 hours. News of this would have everyone on the road at once. If I remember correctly the waves would be in the 100-200 foot range. They said that it would flood the entire state of Florida and kill in the millions in the U.S. all the way up to Maine.
> 
> This could happen at anytime.


Or not.

http://lapalma-island.com/the-tsunami-risk/


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## Caribou

Cotton said:


> Something come on Facebook about Harrison Ford crashing a small plane on a golf course that gave me an idea.
> Might be a good place to rest or restock!


Reports are that two doctors that were golfing helped him out. I wonder why barry didn't help him.

There are many places to put down a small plane. Roads, fields, and yes, golf courses. Grandpa taught me to always have two landing spots, one behind and one ahead. When you pass over the one ahead you then find another spot forward.


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## smaj100

Caribou said:


> Reports are that two doctors that were golfing helped him out. I wonder why barry didn't help him.
> 
> There are many places to put down a small plane. Roads, fields, and yes, golf courses. Grandpa taught me to always have two landing spots, one behind and one ahead. When you pass over the one ahead you then find another spot forward.


Sounds like a smart man. I had an old crusty sr warrant when i was a young buck just starting my career flying AH64 A model Apaches long ago tell me you where what you want to get out of the bird with when you get in, and you always look for a place to land. Cause you never know when the aircraft is gonna surprise you and break, and if you crash you might not have time to grab anything but what your wearing if you crash.


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## Jimthewagontraveler

Sorry for delayed reply.
I personally know very little about them.
I do know the local pickle farmer got one as a tax write off and uses it to decide which field to harvest.
I have seen it fly on slightly windy days but never strong wind so I would say 10 mph wind is a bit on the high side of safe.
His only has one seat but they make double seaters so one man with 100 lbs cargo is doable.
No liscense to fly and they have been used to cross America.
Bad news is you are an easy target until you get to a good height then only a trained squad firing a coordinated volley fire is a worry point.
When the motor is running at a speed that just barely maintains height it is still very obvious to any observant person.
They have a good glide ratio so they can land motor off very quietly.
They take a while to prepare for launch but after motor start up they can be airborne quickly.
They fly sedately and most crashes are survivable events.
I would think as a last ditch one use item they would be wonderful.
I would also think a person on foot or horse would be totally unable to keep pace. 
A ground based motor vehicle would have a hard time keeping up and should be very easy to see from the birds eye view.
I do KNOW from experience that a hot air balloon chase team pickup truck has a hard time being at the landing site if they are at the takeoff sight.
Hot air balloons were used with great success as spotters during the civil war, when they could be got to the needed site and launched on a rope then at a good height the balloon occupants were fairly safe so add movement and no rope to get cut by rifle fire and a much smaller target profile.
The hang glider cart/engine can be used as a very noisy very fast ground transport so once you are back on terra firma you had better be able to beat feet hard and fast or have a well defended landing site.
Because of the slow speed and easy detectability coupled with heat seeking projectiles they are useless in a modern battlefield.
A 2 lb black powder cannon/mountain morter would be a useable defense against them as 2 lbs of projectiles equals a very well trained squad of rifle man and can be used by any idiot.
I guess that about covers any thoughts I might have so pay your entry fee and roll your dice........


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## readytogo

*Bug Out or Bug In....nothing is new......*

Not to be cynical or disrespectful but the bug out or bug in question totally depends on one thing and one thing only the Event or Situation more clearly the level of the SHTF,right as we speak a town in Louisiana is having sinkhole problems http://www.livescience.com/46692-louisiana-sinkhole-explained.html and on the news is getting worse, townspeople are concern many have already taken their families out, no panic or looting or national guard just a bad situation for many, the earthquake in California or tornados in tornado alley left devastation and despair many left but many rebuild and started new. Some talk of planes or helicopters as a way of escaping the expected horrible monsters, let's be realistic and honest, panic will get you know-where soon, a control and well thought out retreat (army talk) is the only way to out of any situation, many talk about their bug out location, I have one nothing `s there just land so what, unless your place is already like a vacation home or camping place and someone is taking care of it you have nothing, moving oneself or family will not be as easy as many think, it will be much easier if is done in a control way. The media now is full of shows about zombies, aliens, total devastation, survival shows, and red dawn type movies, nothing but junk, and anybody who has been through total devastation can only tell you what is like, four days for me was enough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Flora) flooded home in the city and demolish home in the country, it was like a war zone so I don`t watch nothing that comes for Hollywood, I'm not impress .This here forum is the best place for many to learn and research what to do and how to do it, my humble view to the new ones is to learn your history, talk to the elders and change channels do some research, the WWWW is full of info and by God learn trades that will help you on the way to better readiness and don`t forget to teach the children.


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## Tweto

readytogo said:


> Not to be cynical or disrespectful but the bug out or bug in question totally depends on one thing and one thing only the Event or Situation more clearly the level of the SHTF,right as we speak a town in Louisiana is having sinkhole problems http://www.livescience.com/46692-louisiana-sinkhole-explained.html and on the news is getting worse, townspeople are concern many have already taken their families out, no panic or looting or national guard just a bad situation for many, the earthquake in California or tornados in tornado alley left devastation and despair many left but many rebuild and started new. Some talk of planes or helicopters as a way of escaping the expected horrible monsters, let's be realistic and honest, panic will get you know-where soon, a control and well thought out retreat (army talk) is the only way to out of any situation, many talk about their bug out location, I have one nothing `s there just land so what, unless your place is already like a vacation home or camping place and someone is taking care of it you have nothing, moving oneself or family will not be as easy as many think, it will be much easier if is done in a control way. The media now is full of shows about zombies, aliens, total devastation, survival shows, and red dawn type movies, nothing but junk, and anybody who has been through total devastation can only tell you what is like, four days for me was enough (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Flora) flooded home in the city and demolish home in the country, it was like a war zone so I don`t watch nothing that comes for Hollywood, I'm not impress .This here forum is the best place for many to learn and research what to do and how to do it, my humble view to the new ones is to learn your history, talk to the elders and change channels do some research, the WWWW is full of info and by God learn trades that will help you on the way to better readiness and don`t forget to teach the children.


I reread your post 3 times and am having difficulty in understanding your point. The post seams to be all over the place. Sorry, I couldn't understand it.


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## Starcreek

I understand it. He's saying that when tshtf it won't be what you expect. Use the resources you have now to prepare your head. That's your greatest asset.


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## jimLE

*learn what you can from our past.for example.look how things went with katrina..things there went from bad to worse..100's died from that..in which some died simply because they wernt prepared for it..learn what you can to survive different manmade and natural disasters alike.and then prepare for what you can..take where i live for example.2 things come to mind for what i need to prep for.droughts and tornadoes.im not saying either will happen.but it's possible.. *


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## Wikkador

Unless some substantial danger has caused me to flee my home.. I have no inclination to venture out into some mass exodus. If I simply had to do it I would try to travel only after midnight to just before sunrise (each day) on a honda ruckus. I would strap my backpack and a 5 gal jerry can to the back of it and have at it. I know I could likely travel some 600 miles before fuel would be a worry.


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## Tweto

Wikkador said:


> Unless some substantial danger has caused me to flee my home.. I have no inclination to venture out into some mass exodus. If I simply had to do it I would try to travel only after midnight to just before sunrise (each day) on a honda ruckus. I would strap my backpack and a 5 gal jerry can to the back of it and have at it. I know I could likely travel some 600 miles before fuel would be a worry.


I live at my BOL so I won't be going anywhere. But if I was going to BO, I'm not sure that traveling between midnight and sunrise in a mass exodus from a major metropolitan area will be of any help. The traffic could be bumper to bumper even at midnight. If I was going to bug out and I couldn't beat the rush I would wait 3-4 days before leaving.

BTW if you can get 600 miles out of your BOV in normal traffic, stop and go and maybe completely stopped traffic in a SHTF scenario would be quite a bit less. Expecting 600 miles is a good plan if your plan is to be stranded, out of gas.


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## hiwall

Wikkador said:


> Unless some substantial danger has caused me to flee my home.. I have no inclination to venture out into some mass exodus. If I simply had to do it I would try to travel only after midnight to just before sunrise (each day) on a honda ruckus. I would strap my backpack and a 5 gal jerry can to the back of it and have at it. I know I could likely travel some 600 miles before fuel would be a worry.


I'm sorry but I can't see a 49cc scooter as much of a BOV but I suppose it would possibly have some merits. I often get a real 100 mpg with my Yamaha trailways and at 200cc I know that it is underpowered.


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## StevieQ

*My belief is also not doable*

I am also on the fence of not doable, first off in a friendly manner, I feel your game plan is flawed, right from the start. Here is why, in a true catastrophe, there will be no auto travel period! Second, you must be at your site before SHTF scenario, the reason, you must know your area well, you may think the property you own is safe, but locals know you aren't there, and you may very well have many friends when you get there!, Flights will be grounded or shot from the sky, small planes fly by sight, at lower levels, so if me, I am not in the skies either, Good luck driving a UTV or a ATv through terrain you don't know, so that leaves you by boat, or land on foot, which by the way is the only way in my eyes possible, and that means months of walking and surviving terrible conditions. If one wants to travel in a situation like that, in my opinion it's only by acting like an amphibian, mostly in water, and a little on land. hanks for letting me share, and good luck and thanks for your service...Steve


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## hiwall

> you must be at your site before SHTF scenario


Obviously that is the ideal situation. But we all live in an imperfect world. Many if they have a BOL at all do not have the option right now of living there full time. Many live at a fairly good location but must travel a distance everyday for work and some must travel long distances for work, even out of state. Some are retired or can work from home and these few have their situation well in hand. It happens that many on this site plan on bugging in where they now live and will only leave if a dire situation exists that forces them out. No two people have identical situations.


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## musketjim

One problem with a BOL so far away is that by the time you get there it may be already occupied by squatters. At that point you may have to shoot your way in or burn them out. Otherwise you travelled a long way for nothing. When to BO is the big question isn't it? Just a long way to travel even in good conditions. Sorry, I don't have any answers for you.


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## Wikkador

hiwall said:


> I'm sorry but I can't see a 49cc scooter as much of a BOV but I suppose it would possibly have some merits. I often get a real 100 mpg with my Yamaha trailways and at 200cc I know that it is underpowered.


There is a guy on youtube who has traveled across the USA on his honda ruckus and plenty of people off road with them. Its not a powerful vehicle but it is small, reliable and quiet. If you are simply trying to get from point A to point B by a non traditional route and without attracting alot of attention, the ruckus will likely get the job done. If you have to look cool doing it, yeah you will need something else.


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## Wikkador

Tweto said:


> I live at my BOL so I won't be going anywhere. But if I was going to BO, I'm not sure that traveling between midnight and sunrise in a mass exodus from a major metropolitan area will be of any help. The traffic could be bumper to bumper even at midnight. If I was going to bug out and I couldn't beat the rush I would wait 3-4 days before leaving.
> 
> BTW if you can get 600 miles out of your BOV in normal traffic, stop and go and maybe completely stopped traffic in a SHTF scenario would be quite a bit less. Expecting 600 miles is a good plan if your plan is to be stranded, out of gas.


The point of midnight to sunrise is to hinder detection as you traverse a less typical route to your destination. I was not suggesting that someone get on a scooter and sit in traffic.

As far as having no inclination to "go anywhere", I guess that would be relative to what exactly is happening or has happened. Circumstance may require you to leave or abandon your preferred plan. Remember all those people who said the titanic could not sink? They quickly added more lifeboats to her sister ship after the disaster. Nothing wrong with having a plan to leave even if you think you wont. I live in the rural countryside and have no desire to leave my property if things were to suddenly turn upside down but at the same time, I realize that I might have to.


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## Caribou

One advantage that the motorcycle has is the ability to get through stalled traffic. Sitting in stalled traffic at rush hour I have had numerous motorcycles pass between me and the vehicles in the next lane. They were not screaming down the freeway but I was stopped.

You can cache fuel, food, and water along the way. I would suggest these caches be placed at less than half the anticipated distance your vehicle can travel. There should be enough fuel to match the capacity of your vehicle. Three gallons or so might be enough for a motorcycle where you might want twenty gallons or more for a car. If your vehicle can travel 400 miles then a cache every 150 miles might be a good choice. Extra food, fuel, and water can be sold, donated, or just left in the cache. Be aware that, though you might be able to cache you supplies when nobody is around you will not have that luxury when bugging out. Someone is likely to want to see what you might have left behind. 

It is a poorly kept secret that many bush pilots in Alaska stash fuel near the shore of remote lakes. The rotary wing guys don't even worry about having a lake. This provides emergency fuel and it will also allow refueling out in the bush if they have work in an area. Both general aviation and commercial use this trick. The specific locations are closely held information.


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## TheLazyL

Bugging in by remaining in a city has it's merit's too.

1. You don't have to anticipated the SHTF to beat the hordes out of town.
2. You don't have the expense of a remote bug out location to stock, maintain and secured. 
3. You don't have the risk of a remote bug out location being compromised or overtaken.
4. You do have to be able to survive until the hordes die off on the freeways and in the countryside. 
5. You do have to be able to survive any predators that stayed behind and are living off the city and the other inhabitants that didn't or couldn't leave.
6. You do have to have the means (roof top gardens, water collection, etc.) to sustain yourself.
7. You will need to keep a low profile for when those that have finished raping the countryside return to the city for a hopeful resupply.
8. A city environment is a lot easy to booby trap and to play hide and seek in then in the countryside.
9. Harder for Homeland Securityless to do a building by building sweep to redirect survivors to FEMA relocation camps.


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## LincTex

Caribou said:


> There should be enough fuel to match the capacity of your vehicle. Three gallons or so might be enough for a motorcycle where you might want twenty gallons or more for a car. Extra food, fuel, and water can be sold, donated, or just left in the cache..


Store the gasoline under pressure in an oxygen-free environment and it'll last a LONNNNG time....

Gasoline stored for 5 years - success! 
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f2/gasoline-stored-5-years-success-22028/ 
.
.

.


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## JAR702

A lot of people talk about stashing supplies along the route to their bug out location, how can you stash stuff on other peoples property? How will you know it is still there? How can you be assured you won't be shot trying to retrieve it? I have stashes on our property and I can't even be positive that it won't be dug up by someone else.


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## ras1219como

Many people I know go to great lengths to ensure their caches are hidden and secret. They bury the caches in airtight and water tight containers. They dig the holes and stash the goods at night then take measures to prevent the freshly disturbed dirt from being seen. The caches are in places that are not likely to be disturbed and are often on public land. The true answer is that you can never know for sure that your stuff won't get messed with. But a lot of people put months of thought and planning into proper placement and concealment of caches.


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## Caribou

JAR702 said:


> A lot of people talk about stashing supplies along the route to their bug out location, how can you stash stuff on other peoples property? How will you know it is still there? How can you be assured you won't be shot trying to retrieve it? I have stashes on our property and I can't even be positive that it won't be dug up by someone else.


There are no guarantees. That is why you place your stashes closer than you need them. If one is taken then you have enough fuel to get to the next. The best case scenario is to carry enough fuel to get where you are headed with extra left over.


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## TheLazyL

JAR702 said:


> A lot of people talk about stashing supplies along the route to their bug out location, how can you stash stuff on other peoples property? How will you know it is still there? How can you be assured you won't be shot trying to retrieve it? I have stashes on our property and I can't even be positive that it won't be dug up by someone else.


Oh lets see what ideas we can come up with. Areas that could be used along a route to the BOL. And I'm not talking about bring in a backhoe to do the burying. I'm talking about hand dug holes done that can be done quickly and discreetly.

1. County Parks.
2. State Parks.
3. Rest Areas at Interstate and toll roads.
4. Cemeteries. 
5. X feet south of the county road culvert at the intersection of Y & Z.
6. X feet north of the railroad equipment building along the RR tracks, a 1/2 mile south of road...
7. Volunteer to plant trees at work (or wherever) on your own time. Half way between two of them...
8. Your employment gives you access to various areas, like cell tower sites for an example.
9. House watch for a family member.
10. Rent storage unit(s).

And never ever cache anything that can be traced back to you like maps (BOL location marked or implied), addresses, radio with your inside the battery compartment & etc.

How can you be sure it will be there when you need it? How do you know 5 minutes after you read this you wouldn't be dead? You don't. But just because we don't know what 5 minutes, 5 days or 5 years down the road will bring us doesn't mean we shouldn't plan ahead. IMHO


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## LincTex

ras1219como said:


> Many people I know go to great lengths to ensure their caches are hidden and secret. They bury the caches in airtight and water tight containers. The caches are in places that are not likely to be disturbed and are often on public land. The true answer is that you can never know for sure that your stuff won't get messed with. But a lot of people put months of thought and planning into proper placement and concealment of caches.


I hide mine "amongst the junk". Old salvage yards, old farms, etc. Burying is optional. There are always old heaps of rubble in various locations to hide stuff in.


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## jimLE

Marcus said:


> I will point out that Hurricane Rita in Houston provided a likely traffic scenario. Since this hurricane came so soon after Katrina, more people than normal chose to evacuate (~2.5 million.)
> The major evacuation routes were I-45, US 290, US 59, and I-10. While I have no first hand knowledge of how bad the traffic was on I-10, I do know it was a nightmare on I-45.
> Cars that left Houston full of gas ran out of fuel along the interstate. There were 100 mile long traffic jams. Cars that left late averaged 1 MPH until they gave up.
> Gas stations ran out of gas along the I-45 corridor *for almost 150 miles.*
> I live over 200 miles away and we still saw traffic roughly double normal even though I live 15 miles off of one of the major evacuation routes.
> 
> The takeaways I'd suggest:
> 1. Leave as early as possible. Living on the north side of whatever town/city is best for a quicker getaway.
> 2. Take lots of fuel. Think double or triple the normal amount for that distance.
> 3. Take food and water and lots of it since your traveling time may be measured in days.
> 4. Take some sort of shelter.
> 5. As someone posted in another thread, be adaptable especially in regards to your route.
> 6. Have a Go To Hell plan. In other words, have a plan A, B, C, & D.
> 7. Maps, maps, and more maps. I'd suggest detailed county maps for every state along the way and maybe even neighboring states. Your goal is not to get there in the fastest or shortest route, but rather to get there *alive and in good health.*


*i live live 6 miles off of hwy 69.and 2 1/2 hours from houston..same problems as you described about the other hwy's..ppl were lined up for gas.where the gas ran out right along with ice,drinks and other items..and the thing of it,is.there's a town 12 miles further along hwy 69 that had gas and everything else...and thats why it's a all around best idea to and cevaral routes planed.in which have the needed map(s) for each route..and maybe a gps unit as well..i have a garmen gps unit..and just for the fun of it.i switched it from faster route to the shorest route.when i got my main/primary shopping done for the month one time.it took me on roads i hadn't been on before.and some of the roads looked like they rarely traveled..*


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## kinda

long distance BOL's are totally impractical. Your local water source, and the woods around same, are as far as you need to or want to go. A small dugout shelter there, and some cached food and supplies, are all you need. /desperate people will be blocking the roads, flattening tires and shooting up cars and people, in order to get what gear and food they need. Don't kid yourself about that.


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## JustCliff

Hey Gabby!
You could always bring a sailboat up to the NC/VA line and work your way in. You would be welcome at my place to use as a way point. That would put you half way there.


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## jimLE

kinda said:


> long distance BOL's are totally impractical. Your local water source, and the woods around same, are as far as you need to or want to go. A small dugout shelter there, and some cached food and supplies, are all you need. /desperate people will be blocking the roads, flattening tires and shooting up cars and people, in order to get what gear and food they need. Don't kid yourself about that.


that brings some WHAT IF'S? to mind..
what if others know of that area?
what if they do come to that area?and armed?
what if they intend on using those firearms by any means necessary to get what want and/or need?


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## hiwall

> long distance BOL's are totally impractical.


For 'local' events that might cover a whole state then having a long distance BOL would be ideal.


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## Caribou

I just got off the phone with a cousin. A wild fire burned to within eight feet of his propane tank. His neighbor was one of the 475 that lost their homes in that fire. He had to evacuate his home to to the home of a friend several miles away. They received a notice that they may have to evacuate from that location. 128 dozers cleared a fire break around the community so their BOL was saved. Close is good but far has benefits also.

Power was out for a while, due to the fire, and it took three months before the phone line was put back in.


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## jimLE

hope everyone is ok caribou..

wildfires has become one of my main worries.on account we've had 2 droughts since 2011..in which at least 2 fires got to close for comfort.during the 2011 drought..then there's tornadoes seeing how im in tornado alley...


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## Caribou

Thanks Jim, my family is fine. I talked them into putting a white metal roof on the house a few years back to help with keeping the house cool. I was thinking of fire at the time also but didn't mention it as I didm't want to over sell. I'm sure that helped in the fire. I also told them about keeping a defensible area. They had cleared 150' around the house.

My cousin came home to find the fire crew camped on his front porch. I told him that was because he had created a defensible location and that they had taken a look at his neighbor and figured out that his house was a waste of time. There is a lot more to prepping than beans, bullets, and bandaids. My cousin is not a prepper. There was a thread recently about how to talk to nonpreppers. This is how I dealt with one that I care about. I didn't tell them that I was a prepper because that would make my advice less credible. Because I couched my advice around their concerns, and because they followed that advice, they still have their home. If you want someone to go out and hunt meteorites with, you don't start out talking about the one a mile across that will destroy the world. They may talk to you the rest of the day but they won't hear another word.


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## AuntB

I am bugging in. I have no BOL to go to. I have no friends that have second homes. I am were I am until I get driven out. I guess I will have to figure it out as it goes. I can grow squash but I can't grow money so I have to make do with what I have, where I am at.


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## Caribou

AuntB said:


> I am bugging in. I have no BOL to go to. I have no friends that have second homes. I am were I am until I get driven out. I guess I will have to figure it out as it goes. I can grow squash but I can't grow money so I have to make do with what I have, where I am at.


We have friends that will be welcome if they show up at the front door. The two that are most likely to show are likely to have little more than the clothes on their back. There are a couple of places where we could go if we had to bug out. We will show up with enough food to feed everyone for a year plus guns, ammo, and other sundries.

You don't need someone with a second house. Someone with a spare room that loves you enough to share is adequate. My cousin moved in with friends for ten days. If you show up with resources you will be welcome for far longer. If you would consider bugging out to their home you better be willing to accept them into yours.

Having said that, bugging in is my 'Plan A' also.


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## Yeti-695

I dont plan on going anywhere if I dont have to. I plan to bug in as long as I can keep my wife and I safe.


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## TheLazyL

With a elderly mother and mother-in-law plus a wife that deals with unpleasants by denying their existence, I'm going to be the half way/restock point.


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## smaj100

We count our selves so very fortunate to be living at our bol. I can only hope we can recall our kids in time to have the family with us. One in the deep south, one in NE its gonna be a challenge thats for sure. We have a horse trailer with living quarters that could easily house a small family or group if needed. Along with the ability to mill lumber to build small log cabin structures to house long term guests.


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## TheLazyL

smaj100 said:


> ... I can only hope we can recall our kids in time to have the family with us. ...


Same here. Son and his family 2,000 plus miles, Daughter and her's at 7,000 miles.


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## hiwall

> I can only hope we can recall our kids in time to have the family with us.


We are luckier with our kids only 400 miles away and they are close together so they can assist each other. A full gas tank will get them here or at least very close.


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## BillS

We're bugging in. The only people joining us live 5 miles away.


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