# Solar cell source for post SHTF



## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Yesterday I spent 8 hours on Interstates driving my visiting Daughter to the airport.

And there it was and another and another! Why hadn't I thought of this before?

Remote lighted traffic signs...powered by batteries that are recharged by solar cells! So now I'm a figuring a post SHTF trip to a local Interstate would be beneficial!


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> Yesterday I spent 8 hours on Interstates driving my visiting Daughter to the airport.
> 
> And there it was and another and another! Why hadn't I thought of this before?
> 
> Remote lighted traffic signs...powered by batteries that are recharged by solar cells! So now I'm a figuring a post SHTF trip to a local Interstate would be beneficial!


I was thinking the same thing last week when I passed by a few of them. Hopefully not too many people think like us.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

TheLazyL said:


> Yesterday I spent 8 hours on Interstates driving my visiting Daughter to the airport.
> 
> And there it was and another and another! Why hadn't I thought of this before?
> 
> Remote lighted traffic signs...powered by batteries that are recharged by solar cells! So now I'm a figuring a post SHTF trip to a local Interstate would be beneficial!





WatchUr6 said:


> I was thinking the same thing last week when I passed by a few of them. Hopefully not too many people think like us.


Stick around a while, you'll find just about EVERYONE on this site has had that 'unique' idea....


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

I figure it's not worth losing my life over, so I'm following the "No looting" policy myself. There will be plenty of people around with itchy trigger fingers and looters are likely to have a target on their back. You can find those solar collectors for free, or near abouts, today by going to highway yards and asking for scrap parts off of highway signaling trailers.


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> I figure it's not worth losing my life over, so I'm following the "No looting" policy myself. There will be plenty of people around with itchy trigger fingers and looters are likely to have a target on their back. You can find those solar collectors for free, or near abouts, today by going to highway yards and asking for scrap parts off of highway signaling trailers.


Not the highway construction trailers. I'm talking about the highway signs that my tax dollars paid for. I figured in TEOTWAWKI situation, there is no government or they would be too busy saving their own behinds.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

WatchUr6 said:


> Not the highway construction trailers. I'm talking about the highway signs that my tax dollars paid for. I figured in TEOTWAWKI situation, there is no government or they would be too busy saving their own behinds.


Don't you mean my tax dollars? If you have a right to those signs because you paid taxes, then I, and everyone other taxpayer, has the exact same right. You're stealing from me and I'd put down any damn looter I saw who was doing that. No hesitation from me. I'm not some environmentalist who dreams about eating bark and living in a forest - I like civilization and what you and other looters steal from public areas means is that the rebuilding of civilization is going to be that much harder. With highways being lighted automatically by this equipment nighttime travel after TEOTWAWKI is still possible without having an electrical distribution grid - after you steal it, not so much.

Regardless, we have lots of historical examples of societal breakdown. Law and order doesn't vanish instantaneously in most cases, so you going out and looting is going to make you a target for both law enforcement and military that is still trying to maintain order and for vigilante snipers who freaking hate anti-social looters who are trying to enrich themselves at everyone else's expense, in this case, making night time travel as society is falling down even more dangerous than it would already be.

In the cases in history where societal collapse happened very rapidly, which seems to be what you're banking on, your effort to steal these signs is going to make you a sitting duck. Most people are going to be trying to keep their heads down low and stay out of public areas unless driven out to seek food and water. You out stealing solar cells will make you a prime target for snipers - especially those who always wanted to kill people but refrained because they didn't want to get caught and punished but now with society crumbling, there is nothing stopping them except lack of ready targets. You climbing poles, then using your tools to dislodge a solar cell and a battery puts a target on your back. Secondly, any shooter or even do-gooder can feel good about putting a looter down. Look at what happened in Sarajevo - snipers were taking down people just running across a street to get some water, and they targeted these people because no one was stupid enough to mosey down a highway, stop, climb a pole and be a sitting duck for 10 minutes as they used their tools to steal something.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Don't forget rail road crossings and switch stations. Many of those are solar powered.

If it's TEOTWAWKI then all bets are off. It's no longer looting ... it's salvaging! :ignore:


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> Don't you mean my tax dollars? If you have a right to those signs because you paid taxes, then I, and everyone other taxpayer, has the exact same right. You're stealing from me and I'd put down any damn looter I saw who was doing that. No hesitation from me. I'm not some environmentalist who dreams about eating bark and living in a forest - I like civilization and what you and other looters steal from public areas means is that the rebuilding of civilization is going to be that much harder. With highways being lighted automatically by this equipment nighttime travel after TEOTWAWKI is still possible without having an electrical distribution grid - after you steal it, not so much.
> 
> Regardless, we have lots of historical examples of societal breakdown. Law and order doesn't vanish instantaneously in most cases, so you going out and looting is going to make you a target for both law enforcement and military that is still trying to maintain order and for vigilante snipers who freaking hate anti-social looters who are trying to enrich themselves at everyone else's expense, in this case, making night time travel as society is falling down even more dangerous than it would already be.
> 
> In the cases in history where societal collapse happened very rapidly, which seems to be what you're banking on, your effort to steal these signs is going to make you a sitting duck. Most people are going to be trying to keep their heads down low and stay out of public areas unless driven out to seek food and water. You out stealing solar cells will make you a prime target for snipers - especially those who always wanted to kill people but refrained because they didn't want to get caught and punished but now with society crumbling, there is nothing stopping them except lack of ready targets. You climbing poles, then using your tools to dislodge a solar cell and a battery puts a target on your back. Secondly, any shooter or even do-gooder can feel good about putting a looter down. Look at what happened in Sarajevo - snipers were taking down people just running across a street to get some water, and they targeted these people because no one was stupid enough to mosey down a highway, stop, climb a pole and be a sitting duck for 10 minutes as they used their tools to steal something.


No need to get upset and trigger happy. I didn't say I'm coming to your house and take what is yours. I am talking about a total collapse scenario with no end in sight. No government or police to come to our aid. I am self sufficient enough to keep me and my family alive for the first year while most of the population dies off. After that if one of those solar panels are still there and isn't being guarded by a do-gooder then I might take one. Good thing I know enough about tactics and a thing or two about rifles to take care of those do-gooders that are waiting for me to show up. AGAIN I am talking about a total collapse scenario with no help coming.


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## WatchUr6 (May 18, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Don't forget rail road crossings and switch stations. Many of those are solar powered.
> 
> If it's TEOTWAWKI then all bets are off. It's no longer looting ... it's salvaging! :ignore:


I was thinking about those also. I agree about salvaging.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> If it's TEOTWAWKI then all bets are off. It's no longer looting ... it's salvaging! :ignore:


If it really is TEOTWAWKI, then why not sit it out, let the huge die-off happen, and then resurface and try to rebuild a society and hope that some infrastructure survived, because keeping existing infrastructure operational during the die-off is going to be 100,000 times more effective than trying to rebuild the entire industrial supply and manufacturing chain which led to the production of those solar cells and batteries. All of the mines, all of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to refine the minerals. All of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to fabricate the components, not to mention all of the infrastructure needed to get the minerals from their place of origin to the manufacturing facility.

If we've taken the steps to secure ourselves and our loved ones and to provide for them during a TEOTWAWKI event, then in a sense WE, all of us, are the best positioned to be the guardians of the public infrastructure that presently exists for it is we, those who are prepared to survive, who will inherit the world after the TEOTWAWKI event and it is we who will benefit from an infrastructure that still functions.

However, if you guys are dreaming about eating bark and having dirt showers and you completely renounce the idea of a technological civilization arising from the ashes of a TEOTWAWKI event, then of course, I can see why you'd want to strip everything bare.


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## BlueShoe (Aug 7, 2010)

Read Lord of the Flies for an example of what always happens. It won't necessarily be official government who takes control in your area. Home Guard/Neighborhood Watch will be conducting there version of Salem Witch trials in some areas. And people with stuff will be easy to pick out. And if you are SUSPECTED of having something someone else wants, they'll use every trick to find out and get it from you; even if they use the excuse that it's for the greater good. IOWs, don't COUNT on being able to just wait it out. And if it comes to that, there will be almost nothing left standing out there. If there's a mass death from hunger and disease and you survived, you'll have to locate where those looting infrastructure items were taken to and repurpose them. 

Taking a shot at someone looting infrastructure is a sure way to be dealt worse treatment by numbers of people with less to lose than you. If they don't have a gun and you took a shot at them, they know where to get a gun. If you have something, better hope your home doesn't burn down. If they can't have it, they'll make sure you don't have it either.

People who have nothing left to lose, lose it. Having spent some of my life around a major inner city environment, I know the mentality it creates.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Bobbb said:


> If it really is TEOTWAWKI, then why not sit it out, let the huge die-off happen, and then resurface and try to rebuild a society and hope that some infrastructure survived, because keeping existing infrastructure operational during the die-off is going to be 100,000 times more effective than trying to rebuild the entire industrial supply and manufacturing chain which led to the production of those solar cells and batteries. All of the mines, all of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to refine the minerals. All of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to fabricate the components, not to mention all of the infrastructure needed to get the minerals from their place of origin to the manufacturing facility.
> 
> If we've taken the steps to secure ourselves and our loved ones and to provide for them during a TEOTWAWKI event, then in a sense WE, all of us, are the best positioned to be the guardians of the public infrastructure that presently exists for it is we, those who are prepared to survive, who will inherit the world after the TEOTWAWKI event and it is we who will benefit from an infrastructure that still functions.
> 
> However, if you guys are dreaming about eating bark and having dirt showers and you completely renounce the idea of a technological civilization arising from the ashes of a TEOTWAWKI event, then of course, I can see why you'd want to strip everything bare.


We won't be scavenging unless things are really bad to the point that civilization is pretty much gone for good. We have prepared!

Even with a major die-off I wouldn't be expecting any type of public utilities to be functioning for many, many, many years. It's just all to interdependant upon lots of skilled people doing their jobs with lots of power available.

Even then we'd probably be at a 19th century level simply because modern equipment is to dependant upon vast, easily available resources and highly skilled people to keep them going.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

tenOC said:


> Read Lord of the Flies for an example of what always happens.


Read "Tunnel in the Sky" as the antidote to "Lord of the Flies."



> Taking a shot at someone looting infrastructure is a sure way to be dealt worse treatment by numbers of people with less to lose than you. If they don't have a gun and you took a shot at them, they know where to get a gun.


Just because a response to my argument pops into your mind doesn't mean that you should rush forward and post it. How about THINKING about it before you post it?

If the world turns to a Road Warrior aesthetic, then why are these people out looting without carrying firearms for protection, especially when you say they KNOW where guns can be had. WHY would they refrain from arming themselves until after someone takes a shot at them?



> If you have something, better hope your home doesn't burn down. If they can't have it, they'll make sure you don't have it either.


No doubt, but in order to deprive you of what you have they first have to secure their requirement for food, water and shelter - looting solar cells and seeking revenge tend to come further down the list of priorities when one is facing the real threat of dying of thirst, starvation and hypothermia.


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## Bobbb (Jan 7, 2012)

mosquitomountainman said:


> Even with a major die-off I wouldn't be expecting any type of public utilities to be functioning for many, many, many years. It's just all to interdependant upon lots of skilled people doing their jobs with lots of power available.


I agree with your point about interdependency and human capital skill levels, my point however is that I believe it is a vastly more complicated endeavor to replace physical infrastructure than it is to develop a knowledge base from amongst the survivors.

If you come across an abandoned pharma plant that manufactured antibiotics, it would be easier for you and other survivors to eventually figure out how to make the plant operational than it would be for you to design the equipment needed to replace what was looted, to build the fabrication equipment needed to build the equipment used to cook up antibiotics, to find and the develop mines, etc. I'd rather come across a functional mine with all equipment intact rather than an ore outcropping in the woods which I would have to develop from scratch.


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## mosquitomountainman (Jan 25, 2010)

Bobbb said:


> I agree with your point about interdependency and human capital skill levels, my point however is that I believe it is a vastly more complicated endeavor to replace physical infrastructure than it is to develop a knowledge base from amongst the survivors.
> 
> If you come across an abandoned pharma plant that manufactured antibiotics, it would be easier for you and other survivors to eventually figure out how to make the plant operational than it would be for you to design the equipment needed to replace what was looted, to build the fabrication equipment needed to build the equipment used to cook up antibiotics, to find and the develop mines, etc. I'd rather come across a functional mine with all equipment intact rather than an ore outcropping in the woods which I would have to develop from scratch.


You're assuming that there will be come kind of social order afterward. If that's true then there will probably be very little scavenging ... I mean looting. However if society has devolved below that level it's not likely to have the ability to "come back" to any large degree. Most systems are just too interdependent upon modern transportation and communication systems. Very, very few things are made with locally available materials.

What you're also proposing is a socialistic type of society in which the "masses" function with the common good in mind. That will take some strong leadership in a sociatal upheaval and is most likely not going to happen.

It will all depend on what triggered or caused the end events and what things are like afterward.

That being said, there is a difference between scavenging and looting. If I'm dead and my family is dead and my neighbors are dead and some stranger comes along and takes "my" stuff then he isn't stealing or looting. He's scavenging.


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## The_Blob (Dec 24, 2008)

mosquitomountainman said:


> You're assuming that there will be come kind of social order afterward. If that's true then there will probably be very little scavenging ... I mean looting. However if society has devolved below that level it's not likely to have the ability to "come back" to any large degree. Most systems are just too interdependent upon modern transportation and communication systems. Very, very few things are made with locally available materials.
> 
> What you're also proposing is a socialistic type of society in which the "masses" function with the common good in mind. That will take some strong leadership in a sociatal upheaval and is most likely not going to happen.
> 
> ...


It seems to me a more likely scenario will be a lost sheep following the strongest/most charismatic leader they can find... 'Empire' will result before any other large govt type emerges after TEOTWAWKI... IMHO


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> ...If you come across an abandoned pharma plant that manufactured antibiotics, it would be easier for you and other survivors to eventually figure out how to make the plant operational than it would be for you to design the equipment needed to replace what was looted, to build the fabrication equipment needed to build the equipment used to cook up antibiotics, to find and the develop mines, etc....


I agree in principle.

To tear apart irreplaceable infrastructure (pharmaceutical plant in your example) just for some copper tubing for a water still would be a shame.

But on the other hand if there isn't the means or the knowledge to refine the chemicals to "feed" the pharmaceutical plant, what good is a pristine plant (other than a monument to the past) when a community is dying of thirst?

Got to be a balance in there somewhere.

5 minutes into an isolated power outage some nut is trying to remove the power supply from an Interstate sign should be dealt with accordingly.

But on the other hand if it's going to be several generations before Interstates can be cleared, repaired and put back in use, that power supply will serve better helping a family survive.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

TheLazyL said:


> 5 minutes into an isolated power outage some nut is trying to remove the power supply from an Interstate sign should be dealt with accordingly.


Geez, we have idiots doing that now..... and it isn't even a SHTF scenario.

Ever hear in the news about thieves getting fried while stealing wire that is still "hot"?


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## Nadja (Jan 12, 2011)

How about purachasing some solar panels now and avoiding the danger? Thats what I have been doing for 16 years now. So I can keep my head down, eat my own put away food, and drink my water without risk of being a target. Makes more sense to me


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

So, in summary:



TheLazyL said:


> So now I'm a figuring a post SHTF trip to a local Interstate would be beneficial!


Beneficial only if the likelihood is good that you can retrieve them safely, and no one got to them before you.



Nadja said:


> How about purachasing some solar panels now and avoiding the danger? Makes more sense to me.


A far safer option. Also, this guarantees that YOU will have them, and not someone else that beat you to them.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

LincTex said:


> So, in summary:...A far safer option. Also, this guarantees that YOU will have them, and not someone else that beat you to them.


Very true, plan ahead.

1 is none, 2 is 1

Hail storm, tree limbs, rifle shots or whatever takes out my previously purchased solar array. No more ships from China, no American manufacturing to buy replacements. A hike to the local Interstate on the priority list.

Unsafe to salvage? Where'd that come from? I ain't planning on driving a bucket truck with no muffler, 5 miles an hour with the air horn blasting in broad daylight, broadcasting on all radio channels where I'm heading and my intent.


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## Resto (Sep 7, 2012)

Bobbb said:


> If it really is TEOTWAWKI, then why not sit it out, let the huge die-off happen, and then resurface and try to rebuild a society and hope that some infrastructure survived, because keeping existing infrastructure operational during the die-off is going to be 100,000 times more effective than trying to rebuild the entire industrial supply and manufacturing chain which led to the production of those solar cells and batteries. All of the mines, all of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to refine the minerals. All of the processing knowledge and equipment needed to fabricate the components, not to mention all of the infrastructure needed to get the minerals from their place of origin to the manufacturing facility.
> 
> If we've taken the steps to secure ourselves and our loved ones and to provide for them during a TEOTWAWKI event, then in a sense WE, all of us, are the best positioned to be the guardians of the public infrastructure that presently exists for it is we, those who are prepared to survive, who will inherit the world after the TEOTWAWKI event and it is we who will benefit from an infrastructure that still functions.
> 
> However, if you guys are dreaming about eating bark and having dirt showers and you completely renounce the idea of a technological civilization arising from the ashes of a TEOTWAWKI event, then of course, I can see why you'd want to strip everything bare.


Thats what I think. Post SHTF survivors will need hope for a future or why did we prepare if not just to survive but rebuild after the purge. Im setting up a mobile Ham/shortwave shack to act as an information colection/dispursal system for when things cool off so we who are left can organize local elections, rebuild the infrastructure and hopefully not screw it up next time. I will be communicating with a network of Ham Operators soon. I was an active member of a Ham Net as a hobby when we lived near Prescott AZ. I would advise eveyone with the same vision to form loose MAGS in your community because I doubt there will be Internet services for a long long time Post SF.


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## teotwaki (Aug 31, 2010)

I think that buying a few modest sized panels and building at least a small system so as to be educated is a good first step. Solar panels at railroad sites tend to be odd voltage ranges as I think that track voltages are only 2 volts DC. You cannot easily mix widely different voltage panels together without knowing a bit more so some decent hands-on knowledge will help you make good choices.


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