# cell phones



## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Will cell phones work when the electric grid goes down in a SHTF scenario? If so, are there battery powered phone chargers?
DB


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

No. Once the cell towers are down the phones won't work anymore.


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## pills (Feb 16, 2009)

Depends on what you need them to do. Take pictures, read documents that you have saved to the device, listen to music that is stored etc. charging can be done via solar, hand crank or even a wood burning stove.


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

db2469 said:


> Will cell phones work when the electric grid goes down in a SHTF scenario? If so, are there battery powered phone chargers?
> DB


To really understand the technology of cell-phones, you need to look at all the historical developments of the cell-phone. The cell-phone connects to a cell-tower that has a couple of connections to the grid. One of the connections is to the power-coupler and the other is a little box that allows for bi-directional radio-signal. A single tower might have 20 little boxes or might have 400 little boxes. By using several towers in a general area, the cell-phone is capable of "talking" to a couple at the same time and as you move from different points along a route, one tower will give up its connection while another is picking it up. You might have connection to 2 or more towers at a time which is how the new smart-phones do their GPS-locating - the more towers connected, the more accurate your location.

If you spend quality time deep in the back country were there are no significant quantity of towers, your GPS-portion of the smartphone will not function as such, but, you might be able to make a phone call. If you move 50' further down the road or trail, you might loose all cell-connection till you move back into range again. The same thing happens if there is a significant power outtage (lets just say a large portion of your state or province) and there are no powered cell-towers within range of your position, you will not get cell-service at all.

Cell-phone service is based on radio signals that are line-of-sight, meaning if you can see the tower and the tower is functional, your cell-phone will work.

If an entity wants to block all cell phones (texting, GPS, internet, etc) it is a very simple process to turn on a cell-blocker that overloads the radio-waves with white-noise so that a signal is unable to receive clear reception.

Cell phones have their uses, but, I personally would not rely on a cell-phone in a wide-spread emergency situation.

Even if the power goes out, the hard-line telephones will continue to run because they run on very-low-voltage systems that are backed-up with batteries at the telecom offices and connection centers. I would trust a hard-lined phone (not cordless, but, a direct-connect phone) long before I would trust a cell-phone.

Just so that you know, my cordless phone bases are all powered via a basic UPS - (Uninteruptable Power Supply) so that even if the power does go out, the base-stations will be able to send / receive signal from the cordless phones - picture of my UPS for my phones is attached. I use APC-branded UPS systems for my computers and high-end electronics (stereo, DVD/BluRay, etc) because where I live I have alot of power-problems (brown-outs, black-outs and power surges).


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## db2469 (Jun 11, 2012)

Thanks for sharing that Naked (I couldn't resist)...do you think a land line wired phone will operate in a Mad Max scenario where no one is showing up for work?
DB


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## NaeKid (Oct 17, 2008)

db2469 said:


> Thanks for sharing that Naked (I couldn't resist)...do you think a land line wired phone will operate in a Mad Max scenario where no one is showing up for work?
> DB


From my days working for one of Alberta's telecom companies, I would suggest that the land-lines would continue to work as long as the battery-backups hold out. There is at least 24hrs of juice is available to the computer-controlled longdistance systems and about 72hrs worth of juice for the local lines. There isn't a significant battery-backup system in place at the cell-towers, maybe an hour at each tower.

A full-out MadMax situation probably wouldn't start for at least a month, but, it would have to be a fairly large region - like all of NorthAmerica at once. Having a portion of a province or state down would see a fairly normal situation happening outside of the affected region.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*I would expect*



NaeKid said:


> From my days working for one of Alberta's telecom companies, I would suggest that the land-lines would continue to work as long as the battery-backups hold out. There is at least 24hrs of juice is available to the computer-controlled longdistance systems and about 72hrs worth of juice for the local lines. There isn't a significant battery-backup system in place at the cell-towers, maybe an hour at each tower.
> 
> A full-out MadMax situation probably wouldn't start for at least a month, but, it would have to be a fairly large region - like all of NorthAmerica at once. Having a portion of a province or state down would see a fairly normal situation happening outside of the affected region.


I would expect that the goverment would in a martial law senerio, dispatch military forces to keep the phone systems and the radio systems working for an undetermined period of time. It would be their only means of control.


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## Lake Windsong (Nov 27, 2009)

Just as a short term reference, tornadoes caused widespread power outages here and most people were without power for at least a week. We were only able to get a signal once during that time to call and check in with a more distant family member.

I was able to text multiple times, and even update social networks to communicate that we were ok, but calls were a no go. We had solar panels and battery chargers for phones, battery tv, etc, but found out later that many people were using their car chargers. In a short term situation, many Home Depot type stores run generator power and set up lawn chairs with power strips so people can come in and charge up their gadgets. 

Listening to a local radio station that had turned into a call in info station for those who could get through, by day TWO, irate people were calling unable to comprehend that they couldn't wash clothes, watch tv, or cook inside. There were also heart wrenching calls from people needing their oxygen refilled or medications refrigerated and had no idea who to contact for help.

I know that doesn't give you an answer to long term situations, but that was our short term experience.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

Many cell towers have back-up generators. The one closest to me has two big gen sets and a 500 gallon propane tank for fuel.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

I spent the majority of my life working for AT&T and all of the renamed companies after AT&T went out of the manufacturing business. Allot of the actual equipment used to supply the battery back up for the hard wired phone system were manufactured on my shop floor. The equipment we made was designed to operate the system for 8 hours, that's it.

We also manufactured the first generation cell phone equipment. Most of the cell phone equipment is designed to operate for 2 hours after power failure. A small portion of the equipment we manufactured was designed for 8 hours.

I made regular trips to switching stations and never saw any system that was designed to handle more then 8 hours. There were no emergency generators at any of the locations that I was at. For about 2 years we manufactured special remote generator switching boxes to power cell phone communications. All of the out sourced equipment was special made for us at great expense. When our customer found out how much a generator powered system would cost them they cancelled the whole project. 

If we have a national wide power failure, expect the cell phones to go out almost right away or with in 2 hours. Land lines will be out in less then 8 hours.

I retired in 2001 and would not know any of the newer equipment. However, the phone company paid less attention to the emergency operations of the phone system in the last decade I worked for them then back in the 70's when I started.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

hiwall said:


> Many cell towers have back-up generators. The one closest to me has two big gen sets and a 500 gallon propane tank for fuel.


Any chance you could take a picture and post it?

Thanks


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## FrankW (Mar 10, 2012)

in a true SHTF situation civilian cellphones will as a rule not work, as the lines will be overloaded even if the power is fine.

Emergency responders have a code they can dial beofre their number so their call "bumps" regular folks off the line.
All the 3 letter agencies have such codes too.

This is the only way cellphones will work in such a situation.
A regular cellfone w/o an assigned emergency priority number will not work.

I have been in 2 responses one major ,one minor and cellfones would not work for hours no matter how many times you tried

Do NOT depend on cellfones as your method to get your loved ones back home is the SH already HTF.
(Just before eveyrone knows it did they will work of course)

If you dont have a landline at home, its even harder since BOTH cellfones must connect at the same time which is astronomically unlikely in a major event.

If one of you has a landline chances are better.
If one of you has a landline and the other finds a payphone (=landline) then you cna concerse normally w/o a problem. 
Landlines are very robust.. even cable based landline susually have a capacitor/battery and will work for a day after power off.

More old fashioned landlines will work if local power is off as long as net at the fone company is still on ( the lines carry thier own power).

Tell your kids not to bother with cellfones during a catastrophe and not to waste time dialing you again and again on your cellfone.
tell them to find a landline and call your landline.


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## Padre (Oct 7, 2011)

As far as comms go, I personally have a phone list on the front cover of my emergency plans, attempting to call my emergency call list, in the event of the SHTF, is my FIRST step, because I am not sure how long I will have access to the telephone grid. One big problem today is how dependent we have become on mobile phones. How many people no longer even have land-lines. Its important to remember that you need to have both a signal on the sending side as well as one on the receiving side, in order to make a call.

During the lead up, and shortly after, a collapse they may work, but even without a lose of power cell phones are not to be trusted. I was in DC on 9-11 and had a hell of a time getting a call out, and DC didn't even get hit, if it had, or if there were fires, rioting, medical emergencies (Epidemics) and mayhem in the streets imagine how quickly the circuits could be overloaded. Outside the city this situation might be better, but of course there are also fewer cells to connect to, and the power is likely to be even less stable... 

Land lines might be a valid option, IF and ONLY if you have a land line phone that will work off the line voltage, many today will not (in which case a backup battery or generator would do the trick). HOWEVER, I also wonder what all this bundling and fiberoptics will do to my regular old phone service if I loose power? In the old days copper wire and a power source meant phone service, I am not sure what modern technology is doing to this premise?

One thing I think we all should realize from this discussion is that the GRID is a multi-armed octopus with its tenticals on many more aspects of our life than we might imagine. Telephone communications is just one of those areas. The other day I had a problem with my fridgerator not keeping food cold. My buddy looked at my fridge and determined that it was a frozen and faulty motor that opened and closed a vent between the freezer and fridge. That got me thinking about how many electronic vents and valves there are out there, under ground, in substations, etc. that control things like LNG, sewage, water, telecommunications, electrical power, etc. With the grid down how many of these will need to be closed by hand just to keep us safe--to keep our towns and neighborhoods livable?


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