# BOB Food



## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

At the risk of injuring any more fragile egos I submit the following:

Food should be part of a Bug Out Bag load. Some of the options are MREs, freeze dried food, trail mix, energy/candy bars and grocery store food. Folks who thru-hike the Appalachian Trail are faced with some similar problems to those faced by folks buggin' out, how to survive in the woods with what you are carryin' on your back. Folks who think they can survice on what they can forage are fools and shouldn't read any further. 

Thru-hikers walk from Georgia to Maine in five or six months. They usually get to a town to resupply every 3 - 5 days. Most of the towns are small and a real grocery store is the exception. The cost of freeze dried meals is prohibitive for most and they aren't always available. Cooking is primitive, usually backing style stoves such as MSR Whisperlite, Pocket Rocket or homemade alcohol stove. Folks generally walk all day and don't have alot of time to cook. A rule of thumb developed by backpacker is to try to get 100 calories/ounce of food carried. Below is a list of foods commonly carried by thru-hikers:

Lard...............................................253
Corn oil (and other veg oils).............243 calories/ounce
Peanuts.........................................170
Cashews........................................170
Peanutbutter..................................168
Squeeze margarine..........................162
Pork Rinds......................................160
Hershey's Milk Chocolate...................139
Snickers..........................................135
Nido powdered whole milk.................134
Ramen Noodles (Maruchan)...............125
Mountain House Rice/Chicken............124
Mountain House Beef Stew................118
Sugar............................................. 114
Knorr Rice Side................................111
Cheddar Cheese...............................110
Pop Tart (Frosted Blueberry)..............109
Idahoan Mashed Potatoes..................108
Oats.............................................. .106
Mac & Cheese (generic Walmart)........105
Knorr Red Beans & Rice.....................103
Bleu Cheese.....................................100
Raisins........................................... .93
Honey............................................. .86
Oat Bran..........................................85
Spam Single.....................................83
Flour Tortilla.....................................83
Grape Jelly.......................................71
MRE (unstripped)...............................55 (average)
Tyson Pouch Chicken.........................35 

A typical days rations for me would be oatmeal with sugar and raisins, coffee with lots of sugar, three flour tortilla with 3 ounces of peanut butter, Mac and cheese, Knorr side or Instant Mashed Potatoes with a Spam single for dinner and a big Hersey (4oz) or a couple of Snikers. It is good to have some food that doesn't require cooking incase you have to keep moving or can't cook.

Don't forget the ignore button.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> At the risk of injuring any more fragile egos I submit the following:
> 
> And you know that does not help ... at all
> 
> ...


Interesting list ...


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

To much sugary stuff. Will give ya a burst a energy follerd by a big crash.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Not that much sugar. Sugar and caffine provide quick engery. I would get up around 5AM and put on my coffee while knockin' down my tent and packin' up. Drink my coffee waitin' for it to get light enough to move. Hike a couple of hours and eat my oatmeal and raisins. Hike 'til noon and each lunch. Everything I cooked except for my coffee I would add fat to, either lard, oil or squeeze margarine.


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## redhorse (Dec 27, 2012)

Woah... Someone should have told Louis and Clark about this list. Can't believe they made it 7000 miles with just their basic provisions and foraging... Maybe they had some lard and raisins. I think they took Mountain House seriously though, but not the prepackaged survival food company we see today if you catch my drift. I do pity them for never having the opportunity to enjoy a Snickers. 

Where is this infamous ignore button? I would sure like to employ it.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Redhorse
Iove it. 

Andi thanks that kept me from saying what I was thinking.


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

To post positively though,
I have a 10 liter dry sack with about 10 days worth of food in it. 3 mountain houses 2 Chile Mac's 2 and a half servings a piece around 300 calories per serving 1 breakfast I believe it is at least 200 calories at 1 serving. Two Hormell complet meals about 400 calories a piece. Idaho mashed potatoes potato soup at like 8 servings at 160 calories. Sorry for not finishing the post I will pull out my BOB tomorrow and go over its food list


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## AuroraHawk (Sep 12, 2012)

redhorse said:


> Woah... Someone should have told Louis and Clark about this list. Can't believe they made it 7000 miles with just their basic provisions and foraging... Maybe they had some lard and raisins. I think they took Mountain House seriously though, but not the prepackaged survival food company we see today if you catch my drift. I do pity them for never having the opportunity to enjoy a Snickers.
> 
> Where is this infamous ignore button? I would sure like to employ it.


They actually had some "instant" soup mix that was supposed to be nutritious. The bugs certainly thought so. :laugh:


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Progress. Louis and Clark were also carrying black powder and muzzleloaders. While I have a few black powder muzzle loaders I don't think I would want to carry 'em during a bug out. 

Bottom line is gettin' the best bang for the buck or ounce for the food you are carrying. This ain't health food, this is to keep you alive and moving. I don't eat lard normally but I carry it in the field because it is very high in calories and last forever. The list is there to show folks that some of the foods that you might think are good ain't really that good like Spam and chicken while peanut butter and mac and cheese are pretty good and cheap.

Take a look at Mountain House and similar meals. Pay particular attention to the calorie count.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> Folks who think they can survice on what they can forage are fools and shouldn't read any further.


Would that be because you have never taken the time to learn what Mother Nature has to offer in her garden?

The Appalachian Mountains (home) is full of food to eat and our hikes within them were to forage.

Just a different way to look at it ...


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

No. I actually have some formal training. I am a graduate of the SERE Instructor Course, JKF Special Warfare Center, 1983 I believe. When I walked in the door I believed like you. It ain't reality. 

Let's look at the plant side. There is stuff to eat along the Appalacian trail. I ate some of it, ramps, blue berries, black berries, strawberries, chicken of the woods mushrooms, morells. Most of it has a short season. You have to catch it just right. None of it is available in the winter. An old SAS sergeant told as he was fixin' to slit a sheep throat, "If you want to survive you need meat! Cabbage is pretty high in calories as plant stuff goes. It would take 80 pounds of cabbage a day to keep you alive."

I can trap as good as you can. Ain't much to trap up there. Nothin' really for 'em to eat. You might catch the occassional squirrel or chipmunk. Most of the small streams don't have fish. Some of the bigger streams and rivers did have fish. I think I saw three deer in five months. If you shoot a deer what will you do with it. There are some shelter mice. I saw some rabbits in Virginia where it was a little more open. Could of snared 'em with some time. I saw a couple of porcupines.

If you are buggin' out you are probably in the stealth mode, likely movin' at night and sleepin' in the day if you have any sense. Not much time for foraging.

You can go a long time without food but it really saps you energy. Longest I have gone is eight days. Felt like I was walking through Jello, couldn't think straight, kept losin' stuff.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

"If you shoot a deer what will you do with it." 
Not sure about everyone else but I would probably eat it.
More specifically eat some, dry the rest overnight or while walking, then eat that.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

My BOB/GHB doesn't have a lot of processed sugars...complex carbs (grains & fruits) is the way to go for the most part when needing energy. Complex carbohydrates last longer because they take more time to metabolize. Proteins take about twice as long as carbs, and fats take about three times as long to metabolize compared to carbs. Calorie intake is important, yes, but there's a lot more to consider than just calorie count.

Simple sugars give you a quick energy boost, but if you know what this does to your pancreas function when you get older, you'd be wise to not use sugars on an empty stomach, unless you want to through out a personal challenge to see if you like living with type 2 diabetes (imagine having this hit you in the midst of a bug-out/get-home scenario). As OldCootHillbilly mentioned, with processed sugars you get a big hit, then a big crash, because your blood can become saturated with insulin...you need a relatively steady release of glucose into the blood for avoiding the low blood-sugar crash. There is a way around this, if all you have is simple sugars, by consuming it much more often in very small amounts. With complex carbs, eating less frequently with a bit more per serving will give similar results, even less often with larger portions for proteins, and so on.

The longer it takes to metabolize, the longer it takes to begin to get the energy from that type of food, so it's best to have a balance of all three macro-nutrients whenever possible, and eat what you have according to how it can effect your blood -sugar levels and insulin saturation. That's my goal with my carried food, as well as daily meals in non-SHTF.

A definite big yes to foraging whenever possible, be it wild edibles or small game. In my situation, I could find myself a couple of weeks away from supplies and I'm pretty sure I can't carry enough food for a 2-3 week trek, even in mild weather conditions...I'd have to drop most/all of my sleep/survival gear to be able to handle the weight of the food alone, which would require even more time to make the trip due to the need for using primitive survival skills for everything I dropped from my pack...not gonna happen for me, unless I have no choice in the matter. So, I have means to procure wildlife (slingshot, snares, knowledge of dead-falls and other primitive traps, etc) and knowledge of the limited wild edibles for my area, all for the sake of supplementing about 1/2-2/3 of my carried food to make it last that much longer. Being an opportunist and using what is around you when the need arises can make your carried supplies last much longer, and that is a simple and basic survival need...don't use what you carry when you could be using what you find along the way.

I couldn't survive long-term in my area by foraging, trapping/hunting alone...well, let me re-phrase that...I would be suffering malnutrition if I had to hunt and forage for my only sources of food, and my condition would continuously deteriorate. Resources here are scarce and limited, at best. Wild edibles are not found here with the abundance or variety that they are in the eastern region of the US (open plains here, mostly), so long-term primitive survival would not be a good game plan for me. Oh, and I do carry a couple weeks worth of vitamin/mineral supplements as well, just for some extra peace of mind.

BTW, the food in my pack is not the expensive specialty freeze-dried or MREs, energy bars, and the like...it's all items which I occasionally or frequently eat, and most of it is what I actually enjoy eating, which is a priority for me...food can provide some comfort as well as much needed nutrition (just like it does for non-SHTF), so I can rotate my stock frequently without any worry of loss due to spoilage or contamination.

As with most things, there is more than one way to get from point A to point B, so to each his/her own...for me, my BOB/GHB food will stay simple and balanced, with the premise that I will forage whenever possible.

Oh, and for the non-forager who is hiking the Appalachian Trail, what does he/she do when TSHTF and they're expecting to restock their food supplies at a remote general store? Guess they should have been following the hunter/gatherer strategy all along, because now, they just found themselves in a forced scenario of learning these skills on a need-to-survive basis...WOW...what a slap in the face THAT would be, huh? I believe the phrase "don't put all your eggs in one basket" could aptly be applied here.


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

I carry a walmart gift card. That should get me anything I need.


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## *Andi (Nov 8, 2009)

swjohnsey said:


> You have to catch it just right. None of it is available in the winter.


Again interesting ... but it tells me a lot. 

Best of luck.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

cowboyhermit said:


> "If you shoot a deer what will you do with it."
> Not sure about everyone else but I would probably eat it.
> More specifically eat some, dry the rest overnight or while walking, then eat that.


Not sure how many deer you have shot, my freezer is full. It is alot of work and you ain't gonna dry any meat overnight. The meat will last quite awhile if the temperatures ain't too hot so figure you eat your fill and take ten pounds of meat with you if you have a way of carryin' it without making a mess.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

At the end of the day calories are calories. You body doesn't care it they come from fats, carbs or protein. Fats are the most bang for the buck. A pound of lard will get you more than 4,000 calories, while a pound of sugar only 1,757. The biggest problem might be getting enough protein. I try to figure 50 grams/day. If you are eating 3,000 - 4,000 calories/day it ain't a problem. With 2,000 day it can be. Peanut butter is a good source of protein as well a calories. 

I always carry a multi-vitamin supplement like Centrum (or generic equiivalent). Probably ain't doin' me any good but it make me feel better (placebo effect).


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

80lbs of cabbage is what, like 8000 calories?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Lol, no I don't think you can tell me how many deer I have shot, or antelope, or elk, or moose. A lot of work  compared to what?

Why "aint I gonna" dry any meat overnight? Have the laws of physics changed since last fall and nobody told me? I never said cured or smoked I said dried.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

cowboyhermit said:


> 80lbs of cabbage is what, like 8000 calories?


I just checked it, 8,960! You would only need 20 lbs/day. All these years I have been misled by that SAS sergeant. The point is that there is not many calories in most of the plants you will find in the woods.


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## Magus (Dec 1, 2008)

swjohnsey said:


> At the risk of injuring any more fragile egos I submit the following:
> 
> Food should be part of a Bug Out Bag load. Some of the options are MREs, freeze dried food, trail mix, energy/candy bars and grocery store food. Folks who thru-hike the Appalachian Trail are faced with some similar problems to those faced by folks buggin' out, how to survive in the woods with what you are carryin' on your back. Folks who think they can survice on what they can forage are fools and shouldn't read any further.
> 
> ...


I can see the logic in about half your choices FEDboy, but you need more raw protein to balance out the sugars and starches.by substituting jerky and pouched meats, not to mention peanut butter.adding ration tabs, not only have you made a more well rounded BOB pantry, but saved money, weight and given yourself an actual balanced diet.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Magus said:


> I can see the logic in about half your choices FEDboy, but you need more raw protein to balance out the sugars and starches.by substituting jerky and pouched meats, not to mention peanut butter.adding ration tabs, not only have you made a more well rounded BOB pantry, but saved money, weight and given yourself an actual balanced diet.


I guess technically I was Fedboy for the twenty years I spent in the Army as an Airborne Ranger but I'm retired now. I did a quick tote on my rations with mac & cheese for dinner and it came out to more than 50 grams of protein. Per the list, meat doesn't have much bang for the ounce. You can survive on peanut butter by itself. A big jar of peanut butter that weighs just 3 pounds 8 ounces will sustain you for 5 days.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Well that makes this a whole lot easier then doesn't it, we will all just only buy peanut butter and be set


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## labotomi (Feb 14, 2010)

Nobody has mentioned Tabasco sauce. This thread is a joke.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

Dang I need a bigger 
BOB than my Large Alice since when the food I can carry runs out I"m doomed. Them lewis and clark types must have been some strong fellers to carry years worth of food with em or did they stop at walmart. I will remember too that when I"m bugging out to watch the trail signs to see when the next shelter is. Shame I chose to use a semi heavily walked trail where wildlife has been driven away maybe my foraging oportunities would be a little better. Think you must be one of those kids recently run off that has come back to troll as some of what you are saying (quite a bit actually) makes little to no sense.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Salt, pepper and Tobasco, priceless.

There was a guy who thru-hiked the Appalachian Trail carrying no food but peanuts and peanut butter. When asked why he carried peanuts and peanut butter, he replied. "Variety."


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

jsriley5 said:


> Dang I need a bigger
> BOB than my Large Alice since when the food I can carry runs out I"m doomed. Them lewis and clark types must have been some strong fellers to carry years worth of food with em or did they stop at walmart. I will remember too that when I"m bugging out to watch the trail signs to see when the next shelter is. Shame I chose to use a semi heavily walked trail where wildlife has been driven away maybe my foraging oportunities would be a little better. Think you must be one of those kids recently run off that has come back to troll as some of what you are saying (quite a bit actually) makes little to no sense.


You need to read about Lewis and Clark. Did you know they carried an iron boat with 'em? I started drawin' my Social Security this year and Medicare last year so I ain't 'xactly a kid. I think Jesus said somethin' 'bout pearls before swine.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I think there might be a good bit of readin you have left to do as well. As for the lewis and clark reading I have read several books about their travels. Seems they did very little trapping while moving (duh) but did alot of foraging. and most of the foraging was done with an air rifle as for meat. I also know alot of mundane details were not in the books since they were based off of a couple of journals and couldn not factually report anything not deemed noteworthy enough to make it in the journals. ONly times starvation was a factor was when they failed to adequately prepare for winters longer than expected. And yeah everyone knows about the iron boats not sure what your point is but the boat did NOT make the whole trip with them. There was much horeseback and foot travel involved in the trip as well.


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## AuroraHawk (Sep 12, 2012)

The iron boat was buried along the way out and dug up again along the route back.

George Drouillard, son of a native woman and French trader, was the expert hunter for Lewis and Clark. He provided much of the meat that kept them alive. Mount Drouillard (formerly Mount Drewyer) in Teton County, Montana, is named in his honor. York, William Clark's slave, hunted a lot with George. 

Sacagawea was the primary forager of vegetables/greens/fruits, for Lewis and Clark; George knew almost as much as she did about foraging. She is still famed for being their guide when in truth it was George who did most of the guiding, and interpreting, until the party was closer to her tribal lands.

George had a mountain named for him; Sacagawea got fame, a river, a glacier, and a coin.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

What happened to the iron boat is a mystery, folks have been searching for it for years. Sacagawea was pregnant or carrying an infant during most/all of the journey. The baby was later sorta adopted by Clark after the expedition. I think Lewis committed suicide. Salmon, Idaho claims to be the birthplace of Sacagawea. They have a nice interpretive park you can walk through.


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## seanallen (Nov 13, 2012)

Well, back to the original topic: yes it is possible to scavenge/forage for food in the wild. However, you're gonna spend an inordinate amount of time doing it. Even Native Americans with all their know how spent most of their time struggling to survive. A normal man today, with little or no real life training, is probly gonna die if he doesnt bring food along in a BO situ. Vitamins are crucial. So is lard/fat. Salt. These are extremely important.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Lard has kinda gone out of style. You can't get more calories per ounce and it lasts just about forever. You can find oil, like corn or olive, and squeeze margarine like Parkay. I put Parkay or lard is just about everything I cook on the trail except coffee as a calorie booster.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

swjohnsey said:


> At the end of the day calories are calories. *You body doesn't care it they come from fats, carbs or protein.* Fats are the most bang for the buck. A pound of lard will get you more than 4,000 calories, while a pound of sugar only 1,757. The biggest problem might be getting enough protein. I try to figure 50 grams/day. If you are eating 3,000 - 4,000 calories/day it ain't a problem. With 2,000 day it can be. Peanut butter is a good source of protein as well a calories.
> 
> I always carry a multi-vitamin supplement like Centrum (or generic equiivalent). Probably ain't doin' me any good but it make me feel better (placebo effect).


I have to respectfully disagree on the portion I highlighted...here's why: when you are hiking and especially in rough terrain with a heavy pack, you will be using a lot of muscle function. When working any muscles, you need protein to maintain your muscle mass. Without protein, your body will begin a metabolic process, which in essence, destroys itself, in order to continue to provide muscle function. Protein is the most important macro-nutrient for muscle maintenance, being muscles are derived from metabolizing protein, and are in fact a dense protein (not to mention the vitamins/minerals necessary for proper function). That's where I try to stock foods which contain protein, even in smaller percentages when combined with complex carbohydrates, like grains and nuts (carbs, proteins and fats). I also have some canned meats/fish which have fats and the obvious proteins. Then, lastly, dried and/or canned fruits (no added sugars). Again, balance of macro-nutrients is the key.

Here's a bit (OK, I lied...a ton) of info on nutrition, when you get some time to go through the links:
http://www.preparedsociety.com/forum/f36/nutritional-info-whats-different-foods-13032/

From the above thread, these two links being the two main points of focus which I think will shed more light on what I wrote: what nutrients do what for the human body, and what foods contain said nutrients...the first is for minerals, the second is for vitamins:
http://www.health-alternatives.com/minerals-nutrition-chart.html

http://www.health-alternatives.com/vitamins-nutrition-chart.html

Can we make a go of it by foraging and eating what's in our BOB if we had to for a longer duration, let alone long-term post-SHTF? That's where vitamin/mineral supplements will help to fill in the gaps...if you can't get certain vital nutrients from your food, your supplement regimen is there to take up the slack.

I do need to consider adding peanut butter for the fat/protein content and other forms of fats to my BOB, though, even though peanut butter has added sugars, it's combined with other macro-nutrients, so the sugar hit won't be so noticeable.

I also agree that animal fats of any form carry the highest density of caloric value, while vegetable fats come in second. The traditional diet of many native people on the North American continent (for example) included large amounts of fats. Their generations lived for thousands of years eating like this, and didn't have all the creature comforts of home like we do now. There are certain fats which contain high quantities of vital nutrients and anti-oxidants as well, especially with ocean fish and wildlife which either spends a lot of time in the ocean, or that which eats ocean-dwellers (it directly relates to the food-chain). Even the 30-something year-old rule of thumb for eating a low-fat diet that used to be pushed so diligently by the medical profession, has since made an about-face, due to the anti-oxidants and other nutrients found in many fats. Go lean? That's just plain foolish. It's the cholesterol you need to worry about for long-term health, so you can choose to eat lower cholesterol proteins/fats, or, eat foods that reduce cholesterol...a combination of the two being the best route, and that's why Oats is one of our friends.

I'm not going on a health-food tangent here...just explaining the ins and outs so we can all make informed decisions on what to carry and how to eat to sustain our bodies through a SHTF/BO scenario...no part of a BO situation will be easy, but this may help in deciding what is best for your nutritional needs in your particular situation...


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Thank you forluvofsmoke, that line made me laugh but I didn't have the energy to go into it. Yes your body "cares" very much what type of food you are eating, it is amazingly adaptable but to say all calories are equal is false in a long list of ways. 
Don't forget you can get plain peanut butter without sugar if you want, easier on the teeth as well, especially if hygiene temporarily becomes a luxury.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Was just thinking so did a quick search, actual peanut butter without sugar and stuff has more calories per pound than the cheap sugary kind, not surprising when you think of it, the sugar replaces fats.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Louis and Clark*



redhorse said:


> Woah... Someone should have told Louis and Clark about this list. Can't believe they made it 7000 miles with just their basic provisions and foraging... Maybe they had some lard and raisins. I think they took Mountain House seriously though, but not the prepackaged survival food company we see today if you catch my drift. I do pity them for never having the opportunity to enjoy a Snickers.
> 
> Where is this infamous ignore button? I would sure like to employ it.


Actually , they took along a special mixture of dried beans ,corn, tomatos, peppers ,carrots and onions.

This mixture was dried and packed in barrels to protect it from moisture. They used it in stews and soups,adding to it fish , fowl and game hunted or caught on the way.

They also ate a steady supply of dogs and sometimes horse meat.

They started out with 100 men and came back a year late with 99.


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## jsriley5 (Sep 22, 2012)

I thought it was mostly a pea soup but maybe I"m mixing it up with one of the north pole excursions I read about.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

A bugout situation is not the time to worry about a healthy diet. I eat stuff I would never dream of eating on a daily basis, lard being one of 'em. That said, you do need protein. I figure I need about 50 grams a day. If you are on short rations you have to watch it. As far as energy is concerned, calories are calories.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

A bugout situation is not the time to have stomach problems like constipation, diarrhea and many others that can be caused by improper foods or just those that you are not used to.
It is also not the time to have fluctuations in blood sugar and overall energy levels that can be caused by food. Eating a poor diet can very quickly lower a persons overall effectiveness.


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## DocWild (Feb 19, 2013)

Interesting discussion. There are multiple variables here including: your size and fitness level, weather, level of expenditure. The key factors should be calorie density, ease of prep, ratio of macro nutrients. A critical issue often overlooked is the psychological benefit of comfort food & feeling full. 
I am very well versed in foraging (region dependent) and have done several real world exercises. I can honestly say I would not want to have to rely solely on this method especially if my family was there or security was an issue. 
Pemmican is a good bug out choice and actually lard works well and can be layered with dried berries, jerky etc. great for soups or frying. 
Honey sticks are good for morale and can be medicinal. I am on the side of having 5 days worth to get out & regroup.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

DocWild, I wish I could count on making a get-home situation in 5 days, but I may be looking at up to approx. 100 miles of foot trek in rough terrain, mostly open plains with scarce resources, from nearly any direction away from home. I can't carry enough food for that length of time along with the other gear that I don't want to part with (due to lack of certain primitive survival skills and lack of natural resources), at an estimated average daily distance of 8 miles with a ~70lb pack, without any weather issues. So, I plan for the worst and hope for just a little better than that in the end. 14+ days of foot trek is a more realistic goal in my situation, and I don't want to be worn-down to a ragged state when I reunite with family...they will be happy I made it home, sure, but they will also need my help, so I need to be functional when I arrive...a balanced food supply will be a top priority for me, but being able to extend my carried food by procuring from nature is also a major consideration. Granted, I will likely be in a low-population area (or will detour population to remain isolated), so eluding and evading won't be a huge factor, although remaining somewhat stealthy and reasonably concealed whenever possible will be a concern.

Just to clarify my situation further, for actually bugging out with the family, it's gotta be by vehicle or not at all, due to health issues (partial mobility handicap) with a family member (live in a small rural community). I'm still strong for my age and quite capable of extended hikes (with due caution considering the terrain and weather). My BOV will be our BOBs when/if the time comes...it will be (not quite ready at this time) loaded to the gills with food, water, gear and supplies, means for procurement, spare fuel, etc, and ready to go at the drop of a hat, with packs to grab & go if all hell breaks loose en-route to a suitable BOL (picture this, though: a wheel-chair in the rough with everyone humping BOBs...fun, huh?...NOT!!!). So, we have 2 very similar BOVs (both Suburbans), so if the main BOV fails us, the other will become the main BOV with swapping out of gear and supplies, so we will at least have that one redundancy.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

A few thing: I have alot of experience geting places on foot. In the past two years along I have walked about 3,500 carrying a pack that contained everything I needed to survive for a few day. You ought to be able cover 100 miles in five days if you are carrying a reasonable load, it is daylight and you are motivated. At night or if you are evading zombies the time could double. I also spent 15 years carrying an 80 pound pack evading zombies at night.

If you set out on a hike today in your condition it would take your body about a week to get into the hiking mode. For the first week or so you will not be very hungry and you will drop some weight. After the first week or so of walking all day every day you will develop a ravanous hunger. For every pound of fat you are carrying over your zero body fat weight you can hike for about a day. Right now at 5' 9" and 170 lbs I could go about 35 days. If you carry high calories foods with sufficient protein you can slow or stop weight loss and keep your body in reasonable shape. To do this you will probably need about 2,000 calories a day for the first week and 3,000 - 5,000 calories a day after that and 50 - 100 grams of protein. If have this kind of calorie/protein intake your body will stay in reasonable shape. Look at the nutrition in MREs. The government put lots of thought into this. You can get this by carryiing 1 1/2 pounds or so of food per day initially and 2 pounds after. Let's call it 2 lbs/day to make it simple. 

If you set out to cover 100 miles with a 70 lb pack I can just about promise you won't make it. If you are carrying 20 - 25 lb pack you might.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

swjohnsey, I carry 100lbs all the time, 100miles in under a week is doable with that load.
To say that he won't make it with a 70lb pack and 2 weeks you would have to know what condition he is in. Just because he has a different strategy doesn't make it wrong. I would have trouble limiting myself to 8 miles a day if I had somewhere to go but if I did I would be in good condition and able to forage a lot of food.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I didn't say it was wrong. Most folks won't get very far with 50 lbs much less 100.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

This turning into a very interesting thread...lots of opinions and info being shared. I only mentioned my situation due it seems to be a BO/GH strategy which I haven't seen a lot of others mention: being slower in movement and having a bit different personal needs requiring a different strategy than others may have considered employing for their situation. We all have somewhat different scenarios and preferences in mind for a BO/GH trek, so I offered mine as an example for others to consider.

Maybe this would be a good time to toss this in so you know more about where I'm coming from (long read with two main installment posts to start the thread). I wrote this over a few weeks time shortly after joining PSF, and it explains the bulk of why I'm opting the particular strategy I speak of (some of you may have read this already):
http://www.preparedsociety.com/foru...strategy-rural-commuting-transportation-9606/



swjohnsey said:


> A few thing: I have alot of experience geting places on foot. In the past two years along I have walked about 3,500 carrying a pack that contained everything I needed to survive for a few day. You ought to be able cover 100 miles in five days if you are carrying a reasonable load, it is daylight and you are motivated. At night or if you are evading zombies the time could double. I also spent 15 years carrying an 80 pound pack evading zombies at night.
> 
> If you set out on a hike today in your condition it would take your body about a week to get into the hiking mode. For the first week or so you will not be very hungry and you will drop some weight. After the first week or so of walking all day every day you will develop a ravanous hunger. For every pound of fat you are carrying over your zero body fat weight you can hike for about a day. Right now at 5' 9" and 170 lbs I could go about 35 days. If you carry high calories foods with sufficient protein you can slow or stop weight loss and keep your body in reasonable shape. To do this you will probably need about 2,000 calories a day for the first week and 3,000 - 5,000 calories a day after that and 50 - 100 grams of protein. If have this kind of calorie/protein intake your body will stay in reasonable shape. Look at the nutrition in MREs. The government put lots of thought into this. You can get this by carryiing 1 1/2 pounds or so of food per day initially and 2 pounds after. Let's call it 2 lbs/day to make it simple.
> 
> If you set out to cover 100 miles with a 70 lb pack I can just about promise you won't make it. If you are carrying 20 - 25 lb pack you might.


I don't currently do a lot of walking...it's just the lifestyle I have fallen into, so I have to consider that I can't move as quickly as many others could, at least for the first few days. I'm 6'-5", 200lbs and have minor arthritic discomfort, so I'm expecting to have some knee, hip and ankle joint pain to deal with. Also, my pack weight is partially due to carrying extra F/A supplies as back-up for when I do get back to my family, but I have also been considering thinning that back somewhat.

What you say about the loss of hunger for the first portion of the hike, then turning to ravenous hunger makes sense, and I have experienced this in the past due to any major increases in actual work my body had to do for extended periods (job change requiring much more physical labor, for example). I do have experience with a heavy pack (93lbs) in very steep terrain, but not for extended periods, only a weekend hike (I know, what the heck would I carry 93lbs on a 2-day hike for???...long story).

As for whether I make it or not, the strategy I posted (link above) and the following discussion covers that. I don't have any pre-concieved notion that it will be easy just because I planned for it, or that my chances are good. I will say that I won't go down easy.

Now, with your mention of 2lbs/day of food, yeah, I think I could come pretty close to carrying that and handle the pack weight, especially knowing that the pack will lighten every day as my body becomes more fatigued from foot travel. Come to think of it, that's pretty close to what I have been considering for revisions to my pack...around 24lbs of food. My previous food list was under 15lbs, with planning for up to 7 days on foot, eating only what was in my pack, and extending that to 10+ days with foraging when the opportunity presented itself.

Thinking back on my original strategy, and what revisions I've made in my BOB?GHB since then, as well as those I plan to make in the near future, I do feel my chances for success are far better than they were a year ago. Not to say I have this warm, fuzzy feeling about a get-home/bug-out trek...not even close...more confident in my abilities and changes I've made, yes. All that due to spending time here on PSF, reading and getting involved in discussions like this...that's why we share our opinions and knowledge, so oursleves and hopefully someone else may gain from it.



cowboyhermit said:


> swjohnsey, I carry 100lbs all the time, 100miles in under a week is doable with that load.
> To say that he won't make it with a 70lb pack and 2 weeks you would have to know what condition he is in. Just because he has a different strategy doesn't make it wrong. I would have trouble limiting myself to 8 miles a day if I had somewhere to go but if I did I would be in good condition and able to forage a lot of food.


When I was younger, 100lbs would have been no problem, and would have seemed easy in most of the terrain I frequently would be hiking in now. In very steep and fairly brutal mountain terrain (switch-back trails, downed trees, rocks), I covered 1 MPH with a 93lb pack going up-hill, and 1.5 MPH going down hill, but I was pacing myself and really working towards avoiding any injury (which I'd be doing post-SHTF, also). In my situation, there way too many unknowns that can't be accounted for. In any case, I'd rather plan on a longer time on foot with terrible conditions and have supplies to spare in the end, rather than fall short and have to suffer through the last several days of hiking as a result. The latter of the two would force me to forage when I'd want to be on the move, taking even longer to get to where I want to be due to scarce resources, so incorporating foraging earlier would make things a bit more manageable, IMHO, and allow me to pace myself for less fatigue and exhaustion, because I'd be watching for foraging/hunting opportunities all along. That's where planning for slower movement from the start seems to be a better strategy, at least for me.

Different strategy? Sure, we will all look at the variables to some extent, and try our best to work out a plan for how to get from point A to point B. If the distance and route is known, planning is much easier. In my situation, distance and route(s) will always be unknown from day to day, as I'm rarely in the same place from one day to the next. I may visit one particular area almost every day, but there are many other places I travel to that can change from week to week, month to month, and some may change from the original plan mid-day. So, I can't count on knowing my location when TSHTF. Along with that comes the infinite amount of unknowns...I'd be foolish to think I could know every possible thing that could bite me in butt...the farther the distance, the greater the risks will be. This is why I stated earlier, I'll plan for the worst (farthest possible distance, poor weather, bad terrain, scarce natural resources and possible security threats from predatory wildlife and human sources), and hope it's not quite that bad when TS actually HTF. At least with planning for the worst, I'd be relieved to find that I have a little edge on mother nature when conditions aren't as bad as I planned on dealing with...that would be just fine with me, and would be quite a morale booster.

Thanks, guys! Great discussions!


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

forluvofsmoke, I didn't read your whole writeup yet but it sounds like you have tried to find a plan that fits your particular circumstance, that is the key to so many things imo. 
I wasn't talking about terrain in my example, in mountainous terrain I would most likely be glad to get 1mph  In open terrain even if it is hilly I know I would have to hold myself back to stay at 8mpd but it would be easier on the body for sure and open up the possibilty to forage a lot of food. I will take planning for it to take longer than it does over the opposite any day.
I frequently have to carry heavy loads, well if I am 100% honest I could find a way to do things differently but I like being able to. In an emergency it makes no sense to carry more than you need to but today if you get comfortable carrying a heavy load for your body type then you will be sailing with a lighter pack.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

The only way to find out is something will work or not is to try it. Nothin' like reality to alter you plans. You can do with 2 lbs/day or food whether it is 4 or 14 days. I can tell you that you can get buy with about 10 lbs of gear, pack, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and cooking gear. 

This seems to be a choke point in your survival planning. If it doesn't work nothing else will. Only make sense to give it a try. Try to make 20 miles or so in a day or 3 carrying your intended load.


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## forluvofsmoke (Jan 27, 2012)

cowboyhermit said:


> forluvofsmoke, I didn't read your whole writeup yet but it sounds like you have tried to find a plan that fits your particular circumstance, that is the key to so many things imo.
> I wasn't talking about terrain in my example, in mountainous terrain I would most likely be glad to get 1mph  In open terrain even if it is hilly I know I would have to hold myself back to stay at 8mpd but it would be easier on the body for sure and open up the possibilty to forage a lot of food. I will take planning for it to take longer than it does over the opposite any day.
> I frequently have to carry heavy loads, well if I am 100% honest I could find a way to do things differently but I like being able to. In an emergency it makes no sense to carry more than you need to but today if you get comfortable carrying a heavy load for your body type then you will be sailing with a lighter pack.


Yes, my planning took a lot of thought, research and time...all based on things I knew about myself and my gear, and, that which I would not know until TSHTF, mainly the environment I would find myself in.

Terrain really changes how you move, what muscles you use, and most definitely reduces your average speed/distance on foot. I was surprised the first time out with a pack just how diligently I felt I needed to move, and how much attention I was focusing towards keeping smooth motion and good footing, all to avoid a sprain or other injury. I did in fact pull a ham-string (slightly) after about 5 or so miles up the mountain and made a make-shift walking pole to help me get the rest of the way. Oh, and this was a 6,000 ft trail-head with a 10,200 ft lake I hiked into, so elevation was a huge factor as well. Because I was living at 6,000 feet at the time, but was working 5 days/week at elevations of approx. 8,000-9,000 ft, I was partially acclimated to the higher elevation, but not as much as I would have liked to be. I also was still smoking tobacco then, which I do not now.

Carrying a heavier pack than necessary before SHTF and lightening it up is a great training strategy...it builds up more muscle than you'll need, so fatigue will come more slowly (with adequate nutrition and hydration) and with less overall impact on your performance.



swjohnsey said:


> The only way to find out is something will work or not is to try it. Nothin' like reality to alter you plans. You can do with 2 lbs/day or food whether it is 4 or 14 days. I can tell you that you can get buy with about 10 lbs of gear, pack, tent, sleeping bag, sleeping pad, and cooking gear.
> 
> This seems to be a choke point in your survival planning. If it doesn't work nothing else will. Only make sense to give it a try. Try to make 20 miles or so in a day or 3 carrying your intended load.


I do have some gear which I've been questioning the value of having for emergencies...more of a nicety than a need to have...some may give me a good morale boost. So, loosing some weight and pack volume there will allow for higher amounts of food. Falling back on a few more primitive skills with the realization that it could take a bit more time to perform said task in the rough is something to consider, though...save time to carry a bit more weight...weight vs benefit.

Choke Point: hadn't thought about it quite like that, and you're correct. I've planned, stocked my BOB/GHB accordingly, made a few revisions for bettering my odds regarding water and procurement of food, etc. I have reached the point where I need to find out what I really can do with what I have, and how much of what I have do I really need for a particular season, weather changes and other variables...there's no substitute for experience.

I do need to make time for, and pick a reasonably good area with varying terrain (I have a state-wide topo atlas and GPS), to get out do just that...repeatedly (lots of public land in my area, so it's just a matter of getting out there). Maybe even plan on one trip every season...winter would be the most challenging here, but I need to know. Getting the spouse to agree to it could take a bit of coaxing, but I think she'll come around to understanding my reasoning. She's known about my planning for this since I started the whole process, so she's up to speed on it, and I can stay in touch by getting into areas with cell-phone coverage and use text messages instead of voice to conserve the battery. One or both of my boys that are still at home would enjoy the experience as well...pick a weekend and go for it. Toss in a vacation day or two from work to extend the time-frame a bit.

Trimming back to 10lbs of gear wouldn't be easy for me, though. Fuel for fire is another of those scarce resources...mostly sage brush here. With making some extra distance off-course or following these resources, I can find creek bottoms and ridges which offer more resources for fire and natural shelter, but the drainage or ridge may not follow my intended course...longer time on foot for the availability of resources...another compromise. Otherwise, it's going to be a pack-stove for cooking and a bit of treatment for hypothermia/frost-bite, a small number of heat packs for hand/foot frost-bite protection in the worst of winter conditions...yeah, wouldn't be easy, but here again, this some of what my situation presents for hurdles to overcome, and possible compromises I can make. My only shelter is a heavy-weight poly tarp, 5*F rated mummy bag and small fleece blanket, so I'm down to the bare minimum that I think I can get away with for winter, but having larger stores of food would better my odds substantially in winter.

I may have among the worst situations looking at me for the lower 48 states, or maybe it's average compared to what others are planning for. Changing my pack content, including some revisions to my food for seasonal changes will be in order for sure, just to keep volume and weight within reason. I was mainly planning for cold-camp, but in winter? BRRRR!!! Since having hot food can warm the body three ways (I know, most "experts" will say only two ways...but they're forgetting one, trust me), being the thermal release into your belly, the food energy producing elevated metabolism and a rise in core temp, and lastly, (the forgotten one) the heat source used to cook/heat the food before you eat it can warm your body and limbs to some extent, if not a lot, and also warm your sleep gear/shelter before you crawl into the bag.

I'm thinking it's time to get out and put it to the test...the sooner the better.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

I wouldn't start in the winter. Make a mistake where you live and you die. If you are sneakin' around the last thing you want to do is make a fire. Cook on a pack stove, something like MSR Whisperlite, which can also be used as backup cooking at home. Get a Whiperlite International and you can burn anything, gasoline, alcohol, diesel. Hot food is more important in winter. 

A good sleeping bag is probably the most valuable piece of survival gear you can have. Given a choice of rifle or bag I would go for the bag every time. Take a look at Western Mountaineering sleeping bags. The price will gag you but it is something you will have for a long time. If you are trying to be stealthful a bivy sack might be the answer. Look for the Gortex bivy sack used as a part of the Army's sleep system on ebay.


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## taylort5 (Nov 6, 2008)

Found a great deal at Wally's today on Mountain House freeze dried food. 4.88 for 2 servings . 
Beef stroganoff, lasagna w meat sauce, chicken and rice, and chicken breast w mashed potatoes. 
Thought it was a great find , comparing to what they charge online for it. Very light and easy to prepare.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

To give you and idea:

Mountain House meal $4.88, weight about 8 oz, 625 calories, 25 grams protein. 

Alternative: Generic mac & cheese, $0.40, weight about 8 oz, 900 calories prepared with tbs lard, 27 grams protein.


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## taylort5 (Nov 6, 2008)

swjohnsey said:


> To give you and idea:
> 
> Mountain House meal $4.88, weight about 8 oz, 625 calories, 25 grams protein.
> 
> Alternative: Generic mac & cheese, $0.40, weight about 8 oz, 900 calories prepared with tbs lard, 27 grams protein.


Agreed... But as far as taste goes, it's worth it to me . Only got it for my bug out bags. I have an extremely picky 10 yo boy. .40 Mac n cheese wouldn't go over very long . Lol 
Mountain house stuff is pretty good.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Knorr Red Beans and Rice about a buck at Walmart, 7 oz, 850 calories with a tbs of lard, 20 grams protein.

You can save weight on cooking gear. My alcohol cooking rig weighs about 14 oz with a coupla days of fuel, titanium pot, spoon, coffee cup, stove, fuel bottle, wind screen and stuff sack. My sleeping bag, tent and pad weigh about 3 1/2 lbs.


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## swjohnsey (Jan 21, 2013)

Food - Calories per ounce (28.35 grams)

Lard - 253
Canola or Olive Oil - 240
Mayonnaise - 200
Brazil nuts - 185
French fried onions - 180
Fried pork rinds - 175
Mixed nuts - 170
Cashews (shelled) - 170
Cocktail peanuts - 170
Sunflower seeds (shelled) - 170
Pringles - 170
Peanut Butter - 166
Almond Roca - 163
Dry roasted peanuts - 160
Fritos Corn Chips - 160
Ruffles potato chips - 160
Ritz crackers - 158
Reese's PB Cup - 157
Hershey's Milk Chocolate - 152
Little Debbie Nutty Bars - 152
Hershey Kisses - 151
Lays potato chips - 150
Chips Ahoy cookies - 150
Peanut M&M's - 147
Coconut (dried, sweetened, shredded) - 143
Pork bacon - 140
Cheese & peanut butter crackers - 140
Nacho Flavored Doritos - 140
Wheat Thins - 140
Plain M&M's - 140
Semi-sweet chocolate chips - 140
Nondairy Creamer powder - 140
Snickers candy bar - 136
Oreo cookies - 136
Jiffy-Pop popcorn - 135
Goldfish crackers - 135
Triscuits - 135
Milky Way candy bar - 135
Chocolate covered donuts - 135
Baby Ruth candy bar - 132
Pepperoni - 130
Chex mix (prepared per instructions) - 130
Chow Mein Noodles - 130
Quaker 100% Natural Cereal - 129
Nabisco Aircrisp Cheese Nip Crackers - 125
Ramen noodles - 124
Little Debbie fudge brownies - 124
Saltine crackers - 120
Cracker Jack - 120
Powdered doughnuts - 120
Pop Tarts (Frosted Brown Sugar, etc.) - 117
Lipton Noodles & Sauce - 116
Hot Cocoa mix - 115
Trix Cereal - 115
Little Debbie cream filled cupcakes - 113
Cap'n Crunch - 112
Balance Bars - 112
Blue cheese - 110
Longhorn cheese - 110
Monterrey Jack cheese - 110
Sharp cheddar cheese - 110
Grated canned parmesan cheese - 110
Hard Candy - 110
Quaker Chewy Granola Bars - 110
Pop Tarts (All Other Flavors) - 108
Sugar-sweetened lemon drink mix - 107
Nutri-Grain Bars - 106
Spaghetti (100% Semolina) - 105
Egg Noodles - 105
Brown sugar - 105
Jelly Beans - 105
Fruitcake - 100 - 110
Kraft original Mac & Cheese - 104
Corn Chex - 103
Cheerios - 103
Fortune Cookies - 103
Stove Top Stuffing Mix - 103
Instant rice (e.g. Minute Rice) - 102
Lipton Rice & Sauce - 102
Wheat Chex - 101
Bulgur (uncooked) - 100
Rold Gold Fat Free pretzels - 100
Melba toast - 100
Fig Newtons - 100
Quick Cook Oats - 100
Grape Nuts cereal - 100
Corn Flakes - 100
Jello Instant Chocolate Pudding - 100
Fruit roll-ups (store bought) - 100
Gainers Fuel 1000 (Protein Powder) - 100
Power Bars - 100
Clif Bars - 100
Pasta Roni - 100
Cous Cous - 100
Coconut (raw) - 100
Cream cheese - 100
Sugar-sweetened Kool-Aid - 98
Nonfat Dry Milk - 98
Maple & Brown Sugar Instant Oatmeal - 98
Quick Grits - 98
Instant potato flakes - 98
Instant Miso soup - 98
Summer sausage - 95
Polska Kielbasa (Pork) - 95
Rice A Roni - 95
Raisin Bran - 92
Raisins - 92
Craisins (Dried cranberries) - 91
Ballpark franks - 90
Bologna - 90
Velveeta - 90
Brie cheese - 90
Marshmallows - 90
Flour tortillas - 89
Spam - 85
Pitted Dates - 84
Cheese Whiz - 83
Deviled ham spread - 80
Beef Jerky (store bought) - 80
Turkey jerky (store bought) - 80
Honey - 80
Jams and jellies - 80
Sun Maid Dried Fruit Mix - 77
Bagels - 74
Pita bread (white) - 74
Turkey bacon - 70
Roman Meal bread - 70
Dried apricots - 70
Corn tortillas - 67
Smuckers Grape Jelly - 63
Sour dough English muffins - 61
Fresh avocado - 60
Canned Smoked Oysters in Oil - 55
Tuna (in oil) - 52
Cooked ham - 50
Corned beef hash - 49
Hummus (prepared) - 47
Turkey Kielbasa - 45
Canned Chicken in water - 40
Beef or Chicken bullion - 40
Tuna (in spring water) - 30
Ketchup - 30
Canadian bacon - 30
Bananas - 26
Tofu - 18
Fresh apples - 15
Raw carrots - 13
Fresh peaches - 12
Fresh strawberries - 9
Fresh oranges - 9
Asparagus - 5
Coffee or Tea - 0


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## deetheivy (Aug 7, 2012)

Sorry its taken so long, I have not had access to a computer. So here is my current list of BOF in my BOB.

MH scrambled eggs with bacon 315 total calories
MH chilli mac with beef(x2) 1200
Beef stew 525
Knorr chicken rice pasta 780
Pizza crust 640
Idaho loaded mash(x2) 880
Cheddar potato soup(x3) 3840
Breakfast bars (x8[300 cals apiece]) 2400
Honey 960
Ritz big cracker( I plan on replacing) 190
Hot cocoa(x6) 660
Maple brown sugar oatmeal (x4) 600
NUUN drink mix 72

This will give me 13,062. On a 2000 calorie diet this is roughly 6.5 days of food. At 3500 calories this is almost 4 days of food.


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

swjohnsey said:


> Not that much sugar. Sugar and caffine provide quick engery. I would get up around 5AM and put on my coffee while knockin' down my tent and packin' up. Drink my coffee waitin' for it to get light enough to move. Hike a couple of hours and eat my oatmeal and raisins. Hike 'til noon and each lunch. Everything I cooked except for my coffee I would add fat to, either lard, oil or squeeze margarine.


Sugar is not a good quick energy. The peak and crash are within in a short time span especially if you are expending energy. Carbs are better quick energy and proteins like nuts keep blood sugar levels normal longer. Skip the sugar and pack nuts and peanut butter (natural like Smuckers with no additives) Almonds and walnuts are better for you than peanuts.

Rice cakes with peanut butter will carry you futher than a sugar high anytime.


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## Transplant (Jan 10, 2013)

cowboyhermit said:


> "If you shoot a deer what will you do with it."
> Not sure about everyone else but I would probably eat it.
> More specifically eat some, dry the rest overnight or while walking, then eat that.


Unless you in are in a large group it would be a waste. If you are moving quickly or in stealth mode you will not be able to cook it much less make jerky out of it. Even if you manage to cook it without attracting attention how are you going to preserve it in order to carry it with you? We are talking 10-15 hours with modern conveniences to make jerky. To make it using a smoke house will take days. Even the indigenous people knew not to kill a deer if they didn't have time to preserve it or the amount of people to eat it in one or two meals.


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Hi Transplant, good points on the sugar and caffeine.
In terms of the deer I would certainly disagree because I have done this so many times. You don't actually have to make jerky, all you have to do is dry it out (hopefully without any fly eggs) and it will last a week without cooking. This can be accomplished overnight over a fire or in the sun during the day, smoke works good to keep the flies off but so does any kind of mesh. You can carry it while it is not dry and it will dry as you move, just have to keep it exposed to air (external frame pack can be a great help.
The natives in our area never turned down a deer.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*You ain't*



cowboyhermit said:


> Hi Transplant, good points on the sugar and caffeine.
> In terms of the deer I would certainly disagree because I have done this so many times. You don't actually have to make jerky, all you have to do is dry it out (hopefully without any fly eggs) and it will last a week without cooking. This can be accomplished overnight over a fire or in the sun during the day, smoke works good to keep the flies off but so does any kind of mesh. You can carry it while it is not dry and it will dry as you move, just have to keep it exposed to air (external frame pack can be a great help.
> The natives in our area never turned down a deer.


You ain't walking through Bear country with that vinison drying on your pack frame I hope ?


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## cowboyhermit (Nov 10, 2012)

Absolutely, bear are good eating as well, mountain lion not so much But a nice pelt if in self defense. Never had much problems with bears to be honest, neither did the natives, some people get all worked up about them but if you keep a level head they are good neighbors. 
The only times I have really felt like I was in trouble were when I was not planning to be in the outdoors and just stepped out for a minute. One time I was full on charged by a black bear that damn near bit my ass as I hopped back into the truck No food involved, no provocation. If you leave a kill alone that is where I am most careful but if you look at statistics they are not a big concern.

Hunters pack out meat from remote locations all the time, Cabelas and others even have special packs for it.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

This is an older thread, I've spent the last couple of days reading thru it (& others) looking for advice on what to carry for food if you expect to BO on foot. My personal worst-case scenario, BTW. 

So, here goes. For the folks who have dehydrated food (such as MH) in their BOBs, how do you intend to find enough water to rehydrate it? Again, I'm speaking about hoofin' it, so there's no possible way to carry enough water for, say, a 2 week hike to the BOL. (I think the directions for some call for 2 cups of hot water). I assume you'll be carrying some sort of filtration device, but that still calls for finding a pretty good source of water (lake, stream, etc) along the way.

Anything that doesn't need rehydrating seems to add a lot of weight to your bag. Jar of PB, canned meat, etc.

So what are some calorie-dense, light foods that don't require water?


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## 21601mom (Jan 15, 2013)

PrepN4Good said:


> So what are some calorie-dense, light foods that don't require water?


I have jerky and dehydrated fruits as food that wouldn't require water. I actually have those in my GHB too. Looking forward to seeing suggestions from others as well!


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

PrepN4Good said:


> So what are some calorie-dense, light foods that don't require water?


Hmmm... let's just say there will be no available water at all along your route.

If I had to choose between a pound of food and a pound of water, I would forgo the food and make sure I had water!

I can handle being hungry..... but not being thirsty.

.


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## ARDon (Jun 28, 2014)

personally, "if" I am forced in to a position were the wife & I would have to Bug Out or G.O.D "Get Out of Dodge" and leave our BOL and drive for a to escape, then have to abandon our BOV and cant carry all of the food we took, it would be more water than food to take with us, I would pick and choose to carry the lightest & easy food to cook. Another is our BOB's are outfitted with snares, yo-yo's for fishing, extra lines for limb lining fishing, a few small critter traps. Lots of food from wild game, fish, editable plants to forge on until we hit a safe area & community that would take us in.


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## machinist (Jul 4, 2012)

The idea of bugging out is bad enough. But to bug out from a BOL? That is really BAD. It says to me that you chose a poor BOL. 

We live at our BOL. Not planning on going anywhere. Whatever happens, will happen RIGHT HERE. I am way too old to be playin' Dan'l Boone in the woods. Been there, done that, got the scars and all. Ain't goin' back.


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

PrepN4Good said:


> This is an older thread, I've spent the last couple of days reading thru it (& others) looking for advice on what to carry for food if you expect to BO on foot. My personal worst-case scenario, BTW.
> 
> So, here goes. For the folks who have dehydrated food (such as MH) in their BOBs, how do you intend to find enough water to rehydrate it? Again, I'm speaking about hoofin' it, so there's no possible way to carry enough water for, say, a 2 week hike to the BOL. (I think the directions for some call for 2 cups of hot water). I assume you'll be carrying some sort of filtration device, but that still calls for finding a pretty good source of water (lake, stream, etc) along the way.
> 
> ...


Maybe you should map out several routes to your BOL and plant several underground buckets on the way with some of those "20 year" gallon "emergency water" cans and other supplies you see fit. :wave:


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## ARDon (Jun 28, 2014)

machinist said:


> The idea of bugging out is bad enough. But to bug out from a BOL? That is really BAD. It says to me that you chose a poor BOL.
> 
> We live at our BOL. Not planning on going anywhere. Whatever happens, will happen RIGHT HERE. I am way too old to be playin' Dan'l Boone in the woods. Been there, done that, got the scars and all. Ain't goin' back.


Not all BOL are prime places, many will be compromised, and even the most secluded BOL can be claimed by undesirables.

My farm (home) is in a very small community less than 500 population, nearest big city is 3 hrs south of me. My hunting cabin/BOL is located in a smaller community less than 150 population which has more land than my farm does. That property I own hunting/BOL that butts up to a all year round river. Will I feel safe in post SHTF?, heavens NO, why because their alway a chance that either properties of mine can & could be compromised. If you think that their is a safe haven you are only kidding your self and most likely you will end up hurt or even dead. We all should have options "plan A, plan B, & even plan C". I'm up in age myself, I'm 54yrs & the wife is 60 yrs. We both have BOB's, we both know our limitations when & "if" we have to bug out from either place or worst both places. Knowing how to make good and accurate decisions & to how to improvise will keep anyone alive. Like I said bugging out is my last resort.


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## northstarprepper (Mar 19, 2013)

If and when the gov't declares marshal law and institutes the executive orders now in place, whether legal or not, they can and will confiscate your farms and BOLs. You may want to fight and be willing to, but are any of us really able to hold off a military unit intent on seizing the property? That would be especially true if they were willing to just blow up the house you all were in instead of waiting out the situation. There would be a whole lot of dead preppers real quick. 

The media of course would portray each one of us as "hoarders" or "right wing terrorists" to justify the slaughter. In the end though, we are dead and the bad guys win. There is a reason those executive orders were so broad. The gov't knows what they are doing.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

machinist said:


> The idea of bugging out is bad enough. But to bug out from a BOL? That is really BAD. It says to me that you chose a poor BOL.


To clarify, I said I was bugging out TO the BOL, not from it.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

Fortunately I live in the southeast where water is plentiful if you can purify it.


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## Enchant18 (Feb 21, 2012)

BOB food
Granola bars 
Fruit leather
PB crackers
Trail mix
Kept in a hard pencil case to keep the crackers in one piece.


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## ContinualHarvest (Feb 19, 2012)

Flat foil packs of tuna. Good source of protein and oils. GORP (Good old peanuts and raisins). Gatorade single serve packets. You're going to need the electrolytes as you sweat. You will sweat, more than ever. Ramen packets. You'll need water but not heat to make them edible. Freezer bags. You can cook in them. Fruit leather. Obvious benefits. Beef jerky. I ran into a thru-hiker that made his own dehydrated meals. They were small and calorie dense. As for water. Your pump will clog. Have more than one way to purify water. Also, have a way to unclog/repair your filter. Water can be found at springs. Know where your safe springs are in advance. Water is also heavy. depending on the mineral content it can have a density of about 998 kg/ m^3. You're not going to be able to comfortably carry much. Two Nalgenes and a 4 liter dromedary bag, would be the max for fast travel.


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## VUnder (Sep 1, 2011)

redhorse said:


> Woah... Someone should have told Louis and Clark about this list. Can't believe they made it 7000 miles with just their basic provisions and foraging... Maybe they had some lard and raisins. I think they took Mountain House seriously though, but not the prepackaged survival food company we see today if you catch my drift. I do pity them for never having the opportunity to enjoy a Snickers.
> 
> Where is this infamous ignore button? I would sure like to employ it.


Lewis & Clark barely made it. They ate dogs, coyotes, and even horses. Almost starved many times, and that was with guns. They had to send scouts out five miles in every direction before they tried to hunt with a gun. Had to make sure nobody heard them shoot. Kinda will be the same way if things are bad enough for you to bug out. If L and C didn't have guns, they would not have made it at all. I'm sure they were good foragers too.


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## PrepN4Good (Dec 23, 2011)

helicopter5472 said:


> Maybe you should map out several routes to your BOL and plant several underground buckets on the way with some of those "20 year" gallon "emergency water" cans and other supplies you see fit. :wave:


We've thought about caching along the way (I seem to recall some threads on this forum about it), but it's difficult to know which route we'll be taking ahead of time, as well as the problem with hiding something on someone else's property.

It's clear that no one could possibly carry enough water for a 2-week walk (without some kind of cart, I suppose).

I've thought about making my own "energy bars" (i.e., pemmican) that could be stored in the freezer & stuffed into a bag at the last minute.

Dunno, every idea I come up with has its shortcomings. :dunno:

Oh yeah, how do you cook in a freezer bag...?:scratch


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## helicopter5472 (Feb 25, 2013)

PrepN4Good said:


> We've thought about caching along the way (I seem to recall some threads on this forum about it), but it's difficult to know which route we'll be taking ahead of time, as well as the problem with hiding something on someone else's property.
> 
> It's clear that no one could possibly carry enough water for a 2-week walk (without some kind of cart, I suppose).
> 
> ...


The only way I know about cooking in a freezer bag would be to boil water and put the bag in the boiling water...  Someone else may be able to answer that.

Maybe a cart or wagon is your answer. There must be somewhere you could plant some cans of water on the way that no one would likely find. We are lucky here, we have snowmobile/atv trails all over the state, even though they pass through private property it is allowed to use them as trails as long as you stay on them and would be good for a small cashe en route.


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## OldCootHillbilly (Jul 9, 2010)

Only way I know a cookin in a bag be usin either the freezer bags er vac seal bags an a pot boilin water. Good way ta cook ifin ya gots lotsa water. Not so good ifin yer tryin ta conserve water.


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## LincTex (Apr 1, 2011)

If you cook in a plastic bag, you don't have to have clean water to boil. The cooking water can be pretty darn nasty and the food won't get fouled.


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