# What are you preparing for?



## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

When I read the posts regarding preparations, it seems that a number of the folks on this site are attempting to prepare for a life wherein nothing will substantially change when TSHTF.

If the electrical grid in this country fails for any reason and is down for a couple of months, there will be a mass die off in this country.

The amount of toilet paper anyone has will be the least of their worries.

Entertainment will not be important.

Food , Medicine and potable water will be the things that allow you to live.

Having a way to heat your home will prevent you from freezing.

Having the means and will to protect these things will be a necessity but you will not have to hold off herds of city people who are scavenging way out in the country.

They can not walk anywhere now and gasoline will be almost nonexistent.

Concentrate on the absolute necessity's.

Do not appear different from your neighbors.

You won't have to hold out to long.

When 90% of the population dies within the first year, there will be a lot of land and assets to rebuild with.


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## Sentry18 (Aug 5, 2012)

I live under the confident expectation that nothing society-ending is going to happen in my lifetime. But I am prepping in the event that IF something does I will be able to get my family from THE moment that things go to hell in a handbasket until the day we have begun to rebuild the foundation of society. With the side benefit of being much more equipped to survive (and perhaps survive comfortably) through a weather related event, short term social disorder, etc., etc.


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## prepperking22 (May 21, 2016)

I expect a society-altering event rather than a society- demise. Once the initial shock, chaos, and panic have been felt by the general society, then I can work on beginning to rebuild my own piece of society.


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## gabbyj310 (Oct 22, 2012)

BillM,
Being in your area,I know what you mean.We are far enough from Nashville and I'm even more in the country than you.Altho the Natcher Parkway goes by my town I'm still far enough away we won't get any "casual" company.With 3 country acres me and my family can make do.But...I could think of a million things I want and ten thousand I need,so I just do what I can when I can.Being a little older and single it does get a little hard to get things done.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

I plan for an economic melt down. Grey Man to the max! we will not set foot outside the apartment for a minimum of 3 months or longer if conditions warrant. If a long term grid down situation, a BOL has been selects and is within walking distance. Too old to plan and prep for everything and not trained to live off the land. We will just do the best we can with what we have.


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## DrPrepper (Apr 17, 2016)

I always used to be such an optimist- but over the last few years, my optimism has turned more towards realism. I prepare for things I hope never happen, either in the short term such as wild fires, severe snowstorms, etc, or in the long term such as war, economic collapse, pandemic/ bioterrorism, civil war, and the general implosion of society as it exists now. I don't expect that after a SHTF situation, life will go on the way it does now- but I prepare so that life WILL go on. I refuse to be helpless, and I refuse to rely on anyone but myself (well, and my hubby) to continue to have a good life. We have plenty of things for entertainment- cards, games and - dare I say it - the lost art of conversation. We may not eat gourmet, but we will eat. We will have our healthcare needs met for the most part, we have transportation, we can defend ourselves, and best of all, we have friends and family who will face the challenges with us.


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## millertimedoneright (May 13, 2013)

I prepare for my family plain and simple. A catastrophe is imminent whether that is a small scale event like a hurricane or a large economy collapse type of event. Even storms that knock out electricity for weeks at a time happen once every 5-10 years. Preparing helps my family be ready and comfortable. I live in a very small lake side community where living dirt poor and off the land is already a way of life for many of my neighbors. Food, water, shelter, and security shouldn't be an issue where I live. We basically have roughly 20 full time non-weekenders that live in there with a very large lake and 29,000 acres of national forest land right next door. I try to prepare for the initial shock and craziness more so than for the long term. I try to prepare for the things that could force me out of my community and into a situation that would make it harder to survive. In reality I hope short term inconveniences are all me or my family will ever see but the way I see it is having a few things just in case never hurts.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Tornadoes and blizzards are the main things here - few day events.

Economic troubles - unemployment being the big one, but we've been lucky so far in both of us keeping working.

The big ones like economic collapse, terrorism, martial law, etc - further down the list, but that's why we're expanding our preps.

Full social collapse, invasion, EMP (Nuke or Solar), Yellowstone, etc - those are so far down the list of possible that we barely consider them, but they are in the back of our minds.


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## CrackbottomLouis (May 20, 2012)

To live and prosper in a dangerous and uncertain world to the best of my ability with a special emphasis on providing and caring for my loved ones and as many good people as I can. And freedom and justice for all.


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## bigg777 (Mar 18, 2013)

The rest of my natural life.

We have auto insurance, yet I don't expect to have an accident anytime soon.

We have home insurance, yet I don't expect our home to be destroyed anytime in the near future.

And, we have a few other things set aside to insure our continued nutrition, hydration, security and electricity, yet I don't expect TEOTWAWKI anytime soon.

Common sense dictates investing in your continued well-being, even if the status quo does not continue.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

I can't see an active volcano from my home but I do every time I go to town. I've seen it erupt more than once. The largest earthquake in US history was a 9.2 and it happened in my neighborhood. I remember this one too.


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## OutInTheWoods (Jun 13, 2016)

Caribou said:


> I can't see an active volcano from my home but I do every time I go to town. I've seen it erupt more than once. The largest earthquake in US history was a 9.2 and it happened in my neighborhood. I remember this one too.


I took a glance at the USGS site where they track earthquakes. Not only Mt. Saint Helens, but also Hood and Ranier have all been experiencing swarm-quakes. Nothing really major as they've all been under 3.0 - but there's been a lot of them concentrated in a small area at each volcano.

Makes you wonder.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

No Man is an Island 
If our world turns upside down if we are face with a mad max scenario or even an invasion or just simply a grid down how long do you think your world will last; do you expect the hungry and thirsty to seat by and watch you enjoy your solar panels or root cellar full of food? With 300 million humans on the move looking for shelter, water, food, heat or just plainly trying to survived your meager rations will be expose to a nation full of hungry rats or maybe your local Para-militia after all they train for scenarios like this they have the weapons they are already in a tight group so who better to attack and take your goods. So not only you need supplies but you also need an Army. I lived thru Hurricane Andrew here in Miami I witness men and women fighting over bread and dog food at one time the bags of ice were shot at by an angry individual, ice folks .The city was lock down and curfew was put in place, thank God for the government. So I hope and pray that the many scenarios listed in this here forum never take place because real life is not a movie.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

I think most of us prepare in general. While each has what they feel is a specific type of event in mind that is more dire than another, I think prepping is prepping aside from some event specifics.

Being able to provide the basics (and I mean basic) food, water, and shelter for you and your family. Being able to protect and defend your family and basics from anyone.

You can't do this alone. Unless you have a walton's size family or larger your going to need help. I've got some basic skills, luckily I live within a mile of a few SF guys who have a lot of other skills that I don't. Our mag has become fairly capable of sustaining and protecting ourselves. My wife and I wouldn't make it very long alone. I can't tend to the animals, gardening or hunting without some form of security. I think the 1st 2-8 months of any significant event that causes society to collapse will be the most dangerous, depending on the season and where you live.


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## SouthCentralUS (Nov 11, 2012)

readytogo said:


> No Man is an Island
> If our world turns upside down if we are face with a mad max scenario or even an invasion or just simply a grid down how long do you think your world will last; do you expect the hungry and thirsty to seat by and watch you enjoy your solar panels or root cellar full of food? With 300 million humans on the move looking for shelter, water, food, heat or just plainly trying to survived your meager rations will be expose to a nation full of hungry rats or maybe your local Para-militia after all they train for scenarios like this they have the weapons they are already in a tight group so who better to attack and take your goods. So not only you need supplies but you also need an Army. I lived thru Hurricane Andrew here in Miami I witness men and women fighting over bread and dog food at one time the bags of ice were shot at by an angry individual, ice folks .The city was lock down and curfew was put in place, thank God for the government. So I hope and pray that the many scenarios listed in this here forum never take place because real life is not a movie.


That is the third post of yours that I have read where you say you depend on the gov. What if the gov is not functioning in your favor or not functioning at all?


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

*"What are you prepareing for?"*

To give my children all the advantages that I can.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

I'm not going to assume everyone understands cause and effect. The cause is what caused the event such as a tornado. solar burst, earthquake. The effect is what occurs because of the event. 

We don't necessarily prep for the "cause", we prep for the "effect". For our plan, the weight of what caused the situation is minor when compared to the effect that comes during or afterwards. For instance, our plan covers situations such as a grid down and interruption in logistics impacting food and gas. It could be a weather event, pandemic, man-made.... the list is long and you could go crazy trying to list every possible event. The effects of those events would be no electricity, no food or gas, sick people without meds, etc. 

If you drew a diagram of every imaginable event and connected it to what comes afterwards, you'll find probably about five major outcomes that require planning. For us, it was easier to work backwards starting with the effect. I do have some event pages, such as a pandemic, that tells us when to go into lockdown. 

This is what worked for us. YMMV.


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

I prep for the outcomes of anything major, and if my preps survive me, then my family will be sitting pretty. I worry about economic collapse and emp


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*A house of cards*

I appreciate all the comments .

I see that most of you are expecting an inevitable collapse of life as we now know it.

We have built a house of cards.

All the conveniences we now enjoy have made the general society totally dependent.

Electricity is so necessary to finance and the market place that they cannot function without it.

We can't buy or sell without electricity.

Most people no longer carry cash but depend on their debit or credit card to purchase everything .

The banks do not have the amount of cash to cover their deposits.

Police , fire and ambulances are dispatched using electricity and the fuel they run on is pumper by electric pumps.

Their are backup generators for crucial services but they depend on being refueled within a 72 hour period and then they go down.

Potable water is also moved by electric pumps to water towers.

Air conditioning, heat, light and medications for chronic ailments. are dependent on electricity .

Last but not least are our information services. No TV, internet ,radio or phones will work without the grid.

The pillar holding up our society is the electric grid.

Anything that shuts it down for more than a few days, will precipitate the beginning of a mass die off of our population.

The cause could by an EMP attack, an internet attack on the grid, an economic collapse , A sun flare, or it could collapse on it's onw due to the increasing population over load.


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## Country Living (Dec 15, 2009)

Warning... this is a rant!
:ranton:
My concern is the political environment that is bringing us to our knees financially. I remember, all those years ago, taking an undergraduate finance course where the instructor was livid the country's debt went from millions to billions. Years later he was almost apoplectic as the debt was hitting the trillions. We cannot sustain this debt. We cannot afford to have foreign countries heavily influence our finances. It's the same definition as insanity.... you keep doing the same thing over and over and each time you expect a different outcome.

Now we have socialists, overt and closet, entering mainstream politics. All of the people who have worked hard now need to share their bounty with people who aren't required to even hold down a part-time job. I'm already paying for people, who could work and choose not to, to sit on their rear while my taxes pay their expenses. There seems to be no remorse about being a drain on society. We can't continue this way.

I am a minimalist when it comes to government. The smaller the better. We're going to back ourselves into a corner if they keep trying to legislate morality by putting more and more laws on the books that only affect law-abiding citizens. However, I find it ironic Hillary is screaming the loudest on gun control while she has had armed Secret Service escorts since Bill became president.

We don't need an EMP, natural disaster, or a pandemic to shut us down. I'm confident there will a day China will take great umbrage with something the US did and cash in the US bonds they've purchased_ all at one time_. Think of the Great Depression of 1929 with major layoffs, grocery stores with empty shelves, and add rioting to it which causes major infrastructure damage. The plug is pulled and the country goes dark.

Bill hit the proverbial nail on the head with his last post. We're in trouble and ignoring the consequences of our actions will be dire. :rantoff:


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

BillM said:


> I appreciate all the comments .
> 
> I see that most of you are expecting an inevitable collapse of life as we now know it.


 Bill

I see your from Bowling Green area , I'm in Lyon County , the epicenter of the historic ice storm of 2009. Not sure how bad you had it.

Just as you said , NO ELETRIC, people went totally nutso...

I was without electric grid power for 21 days.. I was fine , no problem
I was set for power , food, and water.

But the rest of my country was really starting to get nasty. 
No gas pumped, grocery shelves empty in one day(we only have one grocery store) .
Finally the National Guard showed up to hand out MREs and water.

That right there convinced many of my family , and friends, that I wasn't as KRAZY as they thought.

Jim


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

readytogo said:


> No Man is an Island
> If our world turns upside down if we are face with a mad max scenario or even an invasion or just simply a grid down how long do you think your world will last; do you expect the hungry and thirsty to seat by and watch you enjoy your solar panels or root cellar full of food? With 300 million humans on the move looking for shelter, water, food, heat or just plainly trying to survived your meager rations will be expose to a nation full of hungry rats or maybe your local Para-militia after all they train for scenarios like this they have the weapons they are already in a tight group so who better to attack and take your goods. So not only you need supplies but you also need an Army. I lived thru Hurricane Andrew here in Miami I witness men and women fighting over bread and dog food at one time the bags of ice were shot at by an angry individual, ice folks .The city was lock down and curfew was put in place, thank God for the government. So I hope and pray that the many scenarios listed in this here forum never take place because real life is not a movie.


I think I have a good chance of surviving a grid down scenario where I live. Yes, there will be approximately 300 million hungry Americans but the vast majority don't live in my state. The vast majority of the people in my state don't live in my county. Most of the people in my county don't live in my city. Most of the people in my city don't live within a mile of where I live.

There's one fact in particular that gives me some grounds for optimism. About 40% of Wisconsin residents own a gun but preppers are probably only about 3% of the population. Any group going door to door to rob people is going to experience a lot of casualties. They're not going to last long. The bigger the group the more food they will need, the more houses they will be forced to attack to get more food. The more likely that more and more people in the group will die.

I don't do things to stand out. My house is below average in value. We don't have any cars newer than 12 years old. We don't look like we have money. I don't have firewood piled up outside where you can see it. I don't have a garden. I don't have a generator. I don't have solar panels. When the time comes I'm not going to have a bunch of vehicles parked in my driveway and in front of my house. When the time comes we're going to park our cars a few blocks away so it looks like we're not home.

When it hits the fan who knows where people will go? If there's an EMP chances are that very few people will be traveling more than a few miles. We could have a situation where OPEC stops accepting dollars for oil and very little gas is available to the general public. You wouldn't have too many people traveling then either. We could have a banking collapse where banks go under and they steal all their depositors' money. Most people don't carry cash. Very few people will be able to buy gas.

There are approximately 125 million households in America. I can hide in plain sight.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*2009*



phideaux said:


> Bill
> 
> I see your from Bowling Green area , I'm in Lyon County , the epicenter of the historic ice storm of 2009. Not sure how bad you had it.
> 
> ...


We had wood heat and cooked on the propane camp stove. The water never failed but in1979 it did and I hauled water every day from my job to the house . we had kerosene lights and the kids played board games . That one lasted 3 weeks.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

After the depression we have learned to work though most man made problems.
A total collapse is unlike.
I think 2 or 3 thing would have to happen to totally break down the system.
1) an emp over all of North America.
2)The grid would have to fail completely.
3)The government would have to fail completely.
I see weather & invasion are the most likely trouble in my life time.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

crabapple said:


> After the depression we have learned to work though most man made problems.
> A total collapse is unlike.
> I think 2 or 3 thing would have to happen to totally break down the system.
> 1) an emp over all of North America.
> ...


The collapse of the dollar would produce effects very similar to an EMP. Goods would no longer be transported across the country. The nationwide electrical grids would go down since most people would be unable to pay their electric bills. Government at all levels would collapse but the federal government would merely go into hibernation.

There are a number of financial people in the alternative media who predict the dollar will collapse this fall if it doesn't happen sooner. There's an increasing number of financial people in the mainstream media who predict a financial crisis similar to what happened in 2008.

You should research what life is like right now in Venezuela. That's what's coming to America very, very soon.

I think it's very important to be fully prepared as soon as possible. Have a year's supply of food, stored water or a safe source of water close by, ways to heat your home and cook your food, guns and ammo, cash at home, gold and silver at home. $5000 in silver today could be worth 10 to 100 times more than it is today simply when price suppression finally fails. Not only that, it will increase in price as the dollar declines in value. Junk silver, especially dimes are a good thing to have with your first $1000 of precious metals.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

BillS said:


> The collapse of the dollar would produce effects very similar to an EMP. Goods would no longer be transported across the country. The nationwide electrical grids would go down since most people would be unable to pay their electric bills. Government at all levels would collapse but the federal government would merely go into hibernation.
> 
> There are a number of financial people in the alternative media who predict the dollar will collapse this fall if it doesn't happen sooner. There's an increasing number of financial people in the mainstream media who predict a financial crisis similar to what happened in 2008.
> 
> ...


You may be right this time.
But with all due respect, the fall of the dollar has been happening this year for the last 20 years. I am tired of all the crap people on the internet are putting fore always with a cost of some kind. 
So I believe it can happen, I am not sure it will be this year or the next.
But I agree that one should be prepared for anything.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

crabapple said:


> You may be right this time.
> But with all due respect, the fall of the dollar has been happening this year for the last 20 years. I am tired of all the crap people on the internet are putting fore always with a cost of some kind.
> So I believe it can happen, I am not sure it will be this year or the next.
> But I agree that one should be prepared for anything.


The dollar won't be continuing another 20 years. It might not make it to the end of next year. Or even the end of this year. The dollar collapse is thought to be imminent by some based on what they see happening in the world. The dollar used to be used in over 70% of global trade. Now it's below 40%. The world is waking up to the fact that they don't want to hold dollars while the Federal Reserve covers up trillion dollar deficits by creating more of them. The dollar isn't used as much by OPEC countries because the price of oil is so low. Now that Iran's sanctions have been lifted they're selling oil for euros now. They don't want dollars. The Federal Reserve used to be able to fool people that the economy was getting better and they would raise rates soon. Now more and more people know that the economy isn't getting better and they don't believe that the Fed will ever raise rates. That puts a lot of downward pressure on the dollar.

Even if the dollar doesn't collapse we're looking at the likelihood of a western banking collapse. The only question is when. The big banks in America have too many toxic loans and they have exposure to European debt. When one big bank fails it will set off a chain reaction of other banks failing with those banks stealing the money of their depositors. We could have a Friday very soon where our debit cards don't work and the federal government declares a banking holiday.

So I think it's coming soon. I've been going through my preps and making sure my stored food is still good. I'm probably going to have to replace some stuff so I want to do that very soon.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

I'm not saying the dollar won't collapse but it has three times historically if my memory is right. Once was the switch from gold and silver backing the other two I don't remember. Nobody noticed much then. I do believe it will get worse though.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*You can not argue*



BillS said:


> The dollar won't be continuing another 20 years. It might not make it to the end of next year. Or even the end of this year. The dollar collapse is thought to be imminent by some based on what they see happening in the world. The dollar used to be used in over 70% of global trade. Now it's below 40%. The world is waking up to the fact that they don't want to hold dollars while the Federal Reserve covers up trillion dollar deficits by creating more of them. The dollar isn't used as much by OPEC countries because the price of oil is so low. Now that Iran's sanctions have been lifted they're selling oil for euros now. They don't want dollars. The Federal Reserve used to be able to fool people that the economy was getting better and they would raise rates soon. Now more and more people know that the economy isn't getting better and they don't believe that the Fed will ever raise rates. That puts a lot of downward pressure on the dollar.
> 
> Even if the dollar doesn't collapse we're looking at the likelihood of a western banking collapse. The only question is when. The big banks in America have too many toxic loans and they have exposure to European debt. When one big bank fails it will set off a chain reaction of other banks failing with those banks stealing the money of their depositors. We could have a Friday very soon where our debit cards don't work and the federal government declares a banking holiday.
> 
> So I think it's coming soon. I've been going through my preps and making sure my stored food is still good. I'm probably going to have to replace some stuff so I want to do that very soon.


You can argue politics, you can argue religion but you can't argue with math.

I see this coming too.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I'm surprised that more are not talking about the very real possibility that England will leave the EU. If they do it will cause a tremendous shake up. Just them doing that has the slight possibility of causing a world economic collapse. More likely though is if they do leave in the next one or two years at the most one or two others will also leave the EU. That would basically dissolve the EU and that would indeed cause a world shake up that would likely be catastrophic. It would be the end of the Euro which is a major currency.


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## sgtusmc98 (Sep 8, 2013)

hiwall said:


> I'm surprised that more are not talking about the very real possibility that England will leave the EU. If they do it will cause a tremendous shake up. Just them doing that has the slight possibility of causing a world economic collapse. More likely though is if they do leave in the next one or two years at the most one or two others will also leave the EU. That would basically dissolve the EU and that would indeed cause a world shake up that would likely be catastrophic. It would be the end of the Euro which is a major currency.


Great Britain doesn't use the Euro, they stayed with the pound.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

sgtusmc98 said:


> Great Britain doesn't use the Euro, they stayed with the pound.


As I said in my post..................



> More likely though is if they do leave in the next one or two years at the most one or two others will also leave the EU. That would basically dissolve the EU and that would indeed cause a world shake up that would likely be catastrophic. It would be the end of the Euro which is a major currency


.
I was talking about one or two others leaving the EU.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

> *Switzerland Withdraws Application To Join EU: Only "Lunatics May Want To Join Now" *
> Resentment toward the EU hit a new high yesterday when the upper house
> of the Swiss parliament on Wednesday followed in the footsteps of Iceland,
> and voted to invalidate its 1992 application to join the European Union,
> ...


I think the days of the EU are numbered. With the long running economic crisis and the refugee crisis it is toast.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

If Britain leaves it'll be a race to see who can get their EU's turned into something that will be worth more than the paper it's printed on. And restart their own currency. First few folks off the sinking ship usually survive can't say that for the rest of them....


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## AmishHeart (Jun 10, 2016)

So then we'll see what Germany does. They're the ones holding the rope.
I bet George Soros already knows.


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## Tacitus (Dec 30, 2012)

crabapple said:


> ...
> A total collapse is unlike.
> I think 2 or 3 thing would have to happen to totally break down the system.
> 1) an emp over all of North America.
> ...


I think items 2 and 3 come naturally with an EMP.


crabapple said:


> I see weather & invasion are the most likely trouble in my life time.


I'm in the US, so I don't have to worry about invasion. It would be amusing to see anyone try...unless there is an EMP first.


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## terri9630 (Jun 2, 2016)

smaj100 said:


> If Britain leaves it'll be a race to see who can get their EU's turned into something that will be worth more than the paper it's printed on. And restart their own currency. First few folks off the sinking ship usually survive can't say that for the rest of them....


As was stated above, Great Britain never switched to the euro so their currency is already "active". My foster Mother went to several EU countries last year and had to go to a exchange place to get rid of her left over euros and pounds before coming home. There were a couple of places that would take the euro but offered a horrible exchange rate for them.


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## HardCider (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm preparing for a nice quiet sustainable life in the country. Leave me and mine alone and I'll leave everyone else alone. Sounds like a good deal to me :kiss:


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## Elinor0987 (May 28, 2010)

For the longest time I was preparing for a severe and prolonged economic collapse. I still am but now am also preparing for bombings- and lots of them. I don't consider the city I live in to be large enough to be a target but Chicago is too close for comfort.


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## Tweto (Nov 26, 2011)

Newt last night at the RNC convention said that there was a real threat of whole cities being bombed and lost by ISIS or other terrorist groups.

ISIS just recently said to only kill white people, so Chicago may not be in the top ten on their list.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Either / or*



Elinor0987 said:


> For the longest time I was preparing for a severe and prolonged economic collapse. I still am but now am also preparing for bombings- and lots of them. I don't consider the city I live in to be large enough to be a target but Chicago is too close for comfort.


Either one of these scenarios could precipitate a grid down situation.

A grid down situation would kick off an EOTWAWKI


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## Griff (Jan 12, 2013)

I am most interested in the rebuilding after an event. So many opportunities. 

Fascinated by the Marshal Plan era of Europe and MacArthur's reconstruction of Japan, I took every opportunity to speak with locals while overseas in the military. Many of the conversations were eye opening, to say the least. Not only in that they echoed (or expanded on) my parents' lessons from the Great Depression, but also in how they would expose pivotal details, half-truths, or even occasional outright falsehoods from the history books. 

Some of this may sound familiar to those of you who pay attention to trends in sociology and politics, but please understand that I am not some disaffected idealist, nor am I telling this story from the perspective of an angry child (though my favorite question is, indeed, "Why?") I've done quite well in life by looking for and understanding root causes. 

Without fail, the one key issue I've been able to find in past problems has been the Human Factor. There's a quote from the movie "Men in Black" that seems appropriate: " A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Cut off modern society's wants, and most will do whatever it takes to re-connect to the endorphin drip. Indoctrination disguised as entertainment. Close the tap on needs like water, food, shelter, medical care, transportation, and they Will do anything. So, again, Why?

Why limit yourself to a single source of anything? Why not grow your own food, or ride a bicycle? Why not learn to make up your own mind about current events? Why not read a book at the library? Barring the obvious, its because people are lazy, and will elevate anyone who promises to help them remain so to positions of power and prestige. They will defend their rationalizations with lofty ideals and hushed tones, and woe be unto anyone who dares deviate from the herd mentality. 

So, for me, the question remains Why...but I add "not?" and learn by doing, out here in the middle of nowhere. I'm sure my kids are going to be a lot of fun at parties, too; but what I've managed to pass on will ensure their ability to be the ones hosting them.


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

Tweto said:


> ISIS just recently said to only kill white people, so Chicago may not be in the top ten on their list.


Really..... Trying to get the BLM people to do their grunt work?

I am preparing to live with no provision from outside. I am not prepared.
What I mean is, if everything were cut off right now, we would be in for some seriously hard times, but I have knowledge and skills that would help me get by a little better than most.


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## weedygarden (Apr 27, 2011)

Starcreek said:


> Really..... Trying to get the BLM people to do their grunt work?


Yes, they do not know what they are up against here in America. Many people are enslaved in the Mideast, so maybe they think they can do that here. I would think both sides are going to be very surprised.


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

This is a little off topic, so if we need to start a new thread admin let me know.

As I drove from NW Tn to Birmingham this weekend to drop off our granddaughter I found my self day dreaming about what ifs all the way there. Where was possible water sources and shelter as I passed mile marker after marker. How many days was I away from home walking based on 5mph. Now I always travel with a ghb and extra supplies in the vehicle but I was wondering about all the what ifs.

Then I thought how many other folks on here are preppers that could be in the vicinity of mine or anyone elses travels that would be willing to offer overnight assistance or such things. I did realize I need to learn how to hotwire a vehicle, plane, and or boat. My 1 ton dually diesel and the wifes car a santa fe are both so loaded with computers I doubt they would survive an emp even partially. So finding a older model vehicle or big rig to try and expedite my travels back to the farm. 

Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject.....


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## phideaux (Nov 7, 2015)

I am rarely more than 30 miles from home( my base of preparedness), but I also have had many thoughts about, what I could do, if an EMP hit and disabled my car or truck.

Lots to consider there. 

Friends and family help will be very important.



Jim


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## Starcreek (Feb 4, 2015)

I was sitting in the local Walmart parking lot last night while a family member carried out an online sale with somebody, and I got to thinking what would happen -- step by step -- if all of a sudden the s seriously hit the f. It's easy to say, "Walmart would be looted." But that's not what would happen right away. I sat and walked through a logical scenario of what might happen.

When we got back to the house, we started discussing what I was thinking about, and we called our 23-year-old son in the living room to ask him, because he is a junior manager of a local drug store.

"If the power went off and stayed off.... what would you do?" No phone, no cell phone, power stays off.

He went through, step by step, what he would do. Basically, after two hours of handling purchases by hand, they would close the store and come back the next day. If he were the only one there, he is not allowed to open the store. If there are two, they would open and manage by hand for another two hours, then close down. Most of the big cash would be in an inaccessible safe.

Third day, if there is still no power and no outside contact, he would open the doors and let people loot the store. He said it's more important to prevent injury and damage to the store (broken doors) than to prevent theft.


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## TheLazyL (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm doing a rethink (TEOTWAWKI) on the minimum number of rifle ammo magazines we should have on hand.

Son leans towards fight it out and throw many rounds at the threat until neutralized. 40 and 60 rounds magazines are his preference. Never can have enough magazines!

I lean towards withdrawing while firing the fewer rounds the better (preferably without firing any). An attack on the BOL, enough magazines to sustain a firefight with empties mags recovered and reloaded.

A trusted friend pointed out it would be a shame to have rifles with spare parts turned into single shot manual rifles for the lack of a simple $15 magazine.

So what do you think is a good rule of thumb, X number of magazines per rifle for SHTF or TEOTWAWKI?


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## smaj100 (Oct 17, 2012)

I would think and personally have 10-3rnd mags for each m4 platform. A few other sizes but only a few of those. I try to keep at least 5 mags for each handgun as well.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

TheLazyL said:


> I'm doing a rethink (TEOTWAWKI) on the minimum number of rifle ammo magazines we should have on hand.
> 
> Son leans towards fight it out and throw many rounds at the threat until neutralized. 40 and 60 rounds magazines are his preference. Never can have enough magazines!
> 
> ...


I recommend a minimum of six spare magazines for every semi auto firearm. This is because the magazine is the most likely part to fail. To put this in perspective, when asked what the minimum amount of food a person should have on hand my response is one month. When asked how much food a person should have, the answer is how much can you afford and how much room do you have.

I would suggest that twenty magazines is a good start though if you have a bump fire stock or an Echo trigger then you might want to start a bit higher. There is truly no upper limit. When the magazine limits were in place the people with large stocks of high capacity magazines made a killing. Worse case scenario, you have trading stock. Hope you also have the ammo to fill them.


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## BillM (Dec 29, 2010)

*Fire Fighe*



Caribou said:


> I recommend a minimum of six spare magazines for every semi auto firearm. This is because the magazine is the most likely part to fail. To put this in perspective, when asked what the minimum amount of food a person should have on hand my response is one month. When asked how much food a person should have, the answer is how much can you afford and how much room do you have.
> 
> I would suggest that twenty magazines is a good start though if you have a bump fire stock or an Echo trigger then you might want to start a bit higher. There is truly no upper limit. When the magazine limits were in place the people with large stocks of high capacity magazines made a killing. Worse case scenario, you have trading stock. Hope you also have the ammo to fill them.


If there is a EOTWAWKI event and you get into a firefight, you are likely to wind up dead.

I am prepared to defend my self and my family but the number of rounds fired in a home invasion type self defense scenario are usually counted on one hand.

Going to war with anyone when there is no backup or medical services available is just plain stupid.

No one is going to maintain an assault on your home after a single round is fired in self defense .

There will just be too many other softer targets to risk getting killed for your can of beans.


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## hiwall (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't know much about modern guns. But I do know about and have shot countless guns that are 50 to 100 years old (or more). I have personally shot many many guns in that age group that still had the original mags that functioned fine. One of my son's carry arm was made in the early '20's and he is still using the original mag. Have enough mags for whatever fight you might expect but I would not worry too much about ruined mags. But if you have the money and are full up on your ammo then buy as many mags as you wish.


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## Caribou (Aug 18, 2012)

BillM said:


> If there is a EOTWAWKI event and you get into a firefight, you are likely to wind up dead.
> 
> I am prepared to defend my self and my family but the number of rounds fired in a home invasion type self defense scenario are usually counted on one hand.
> 
> ...


If you get into a firefight today you are likely to end up dead. You are less likely to end up dead if you respond with a firearm than any other response.

Agreed, most firefights have few rounds fired. The operative word here is most. I believe the the OP was talking about being prepared for a determined assault. No matter how few rounds were fired nobody ever said, "I wish I had less ammo." Most firefights cops get into have few rounds fired but they all carry spare ammo.

Going to war may not be the most intelligent plan. When the war comes to you the choice is to defend and possibly die or to surrender and certainly die.

If there are softer targets one can hope that they will move on. A little shock and awe might encourage that. What I hear you talk about is today. Tomorrow could be completely different.

I have heard people argue that they might get flooded out or burned out so having a lot of food was a waste. I like guns and shooting so I am going to argue for more guns and ammo. Even I can only shoot one gun at a time so if you want fewer I don't have any heartburn. When I get to the point where I get a battle rifle I would like to get at least twenty magazines for it.

I have had magazines go bad and I know many other people that have had magazines go bad. Some brands of magazines even have a poor reputation. I'm trying to remember a shooting instructor that hasn't taught me what to do when a magazine goes bad. I also made the assumption that the question was made as to how many magazines would you want if you could never buy any more.


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## tmttactical (Nov 23, 2015)

The best response is to clarify. For a stand your ground and never surrender, I want as many loaded mags as I can fit into my location. For a get out of dodge event, I want enough that the wife can reload more before I run out of loaded mags. Example: fire rate 9 rounds a minute, 18 rounds per mag. reload time 4 minutes. So I want at least 2 spare mags. this of course is an over simplification but it provides some guidelines. A defense situation would involve establishing choke / kill zones to reduce attack points. You want to be too expensive to continue attacking. In a complete survival situations,--- they need your place to survive (do or die), then then all the ammo in the world may not be enough. Every fortification can be taken, if the attackers are willing to pay the price.


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## readytogo (Apr 6, 2013)

Tweto said:


> Newt last night at the RNC convention said that there was a real threat of whole cities being bombed and lost by ISIS or other terrorist groups.
> 
> ISIS just recently said to only kill white people, so Chicago may not be in the top ten on their list.


Again with the color remarks ,like we need this now with all the racial tensions around?
Wow.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

Griff said:


> Why not read a book at the library?


It's an interesting thought. Most, if not almost all, public libraries present a leftist/socialist point of view. You won't find much diversity of opinion. Or you'll find 19 books about Keynesian economics for every 1 from the Austrian school of economics.

We live in a country where at least a third of the population knows only what the mainstream media tells him or her. They're about as indoctrinated as someone living in Stalinist Russia except that they think they're free and informed.


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## BillS (May 30, 2011)

To answer the title of the post, I'm preparing for hyperinflation and a complete economic collapse. Other people here are preparing for temporary problems caused by bad weather. Others grow and can their own food. Some just for economic reasons. 

You could put it another way. Some people are preppers. Others are doomsday preppers. Doomsday preppers are preparing for a variety of things: economic collapse, global pandemic, Yellowstone volcanic eruption, civil unrest, etc. We also represent a wide variety of opinions about when these things are likely to happen. 

Ever since I woke up in 2011 I've prepared and tried to stay prepared like this year is the year. I've been wrong every year but it's better than thinking you have 20 years and you suddenly run out of time. 

I think there's also a wide spectrum of opinion when it comes to government conspiracies. Some people consider all talk to be crazy talk from people wearing tin foil hats while others consider the doubters to be under-informed and blinded by normalcy bias. If nothing else, the Hillary and DNC emails uncovered a lot of things that people suspected like the mainstream media working hand and glove with the Hillary campaign. It makes me think that a lot more things are possible than I used to think. 

And of course we have a wide variety of religious views which can impact what we're expecting and/or prepping for. I'm an Evangelical Christian so I expect a global economic collapse and world war 3 to lead to the one world government prophesied in the Bible's books of Daniel and Revelation. 

I try to read a lot of articles and watch a lot of Youtube videos. I still have the feeling that some big foreseen or unforeseen event could happen at almost any time and I need to be prepared in case that happens.


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## crabapple (Jan 1, 2012)

I am prepared for a total Collapse.
But there is to much money to be made off the collapse, for the powers to be, not to ride a collapse out & stay in power.
So unless they are shot in the street like people do in other countries when the power shifts.
Then they will tax our collective [email protected]# off to fix what the other (fall guy) party did to us.
So why are we so sure this nightmare will not happen, with martial law & weapon collection?


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## bkt (Oct 10, 2008)

Sorry if others have already said essentially what I'm going to say. I'm not preparing for any specific event. The loss of a job, the death of my wife or my child, a big unexpected expense, a localized storm or other natural event, localized social upheaval, regional confrontation, or something national or global is what I'm preparing for. But really it's the stuff at the beginning - the personal stuff - is *much* more likely to happen to me than anything else but it is in no way less devastating to me than a bigger event.

Prep for the small stuff and you'll find you have a lot of the major stuff already covered.

I worry about folks consumed with fear of a specific attack like an Iranian EMP blast. See to your basic needs. If you have them covered and you're not dependent on anyone else, you're in really good shape no matter the scale of the problem.


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## LastOutlaw (Jun 1, 2013)

What am I preparing for? 
My Grandchild.
That's it.


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