# sheep vs steers



## unklfstr

What animal would produce more meat over time if I purchased some; sheep or cows?


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## bombardier666

*To answer your question*

I am by no means an expert but I have had a conversation with someone whom I consider to be one. A friend of mine spent her childhood on a homestead and learned quite a bit. Cows vs. Goats: Cows being heavy hooved animals will inevitably trample your soil down and that combined with rain will make it very difficult to use for anything else. Cows eat alot and they drink alot too. You have to put way more food into a cow than what you get out of it if you plan to butcher it eventually. I milk cow will provide milk but you still have to feed it quite a bit. On the oher hand goats do not eat as much, especially if you let them do some of your yard work. The term "the grass is always greener" come from raising goats. They will lean on a fence until it breaks to get to another food source, So you would need to keep your fences well maintained. They like wild plants, weeds and such but you still have to suppliment thier diet with feed. Also the lighter hoof of the goat is less damaging to the soil which you may want to use in the future for growing. As opposed to the cow or goat, what was recommended to me for meat is rabbits. Rabbits like goats will eat any green trimmings from garden waste, You still have to suppliment there diet with feed but not nearly as much per pound of meat as other animals. Also they taste wonderfull. Keep them in what is called a hutch, and like the saying goes they will multiply. You have to be very carefull not to let them escape or you will quickly have a "rabbit problem" Even if you only keep females, they will breed with wild rabbits. Another great animal to keep is chickens. They will provide you with eggs even without a rooster contrary to popular belief, and they are easy to take care of. Rabbits and chickens both also provide excellent manure for your food growing op. A chicken is best kept alive because the amount of protien the eggs provide is far more than the chicken itself. I hope this helps.


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## PorkChop

unklfstr said:


> What animal would produce more meat over time if I purchased some; sheep or cows?


Pigs will produce more meat than any animal I can think of. They also have a lot of useful fat.

One sow can have fifty babies every two years. Her babies will be 240lbs in 165 days.

Yes, I raise pigs.


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## bombardier666

To caution about pigs, now I'm not saying that the previous poster is wrong, but I do know that pigs can be very difficult to keep healthy, they require alot of care and attention. Also many diseases that pigs carry are comunicable to humans. I guess the idea ultimately would be to get the most bang for your buck. Remember that in a situation of scarcity antibiotics, feed and other supplies will not neccisarily be available. You would need to make the most of what little you may or may not have.


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## McGyver

Isn't it hard to get pig food though? What do you feed your pigs?


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## J&J

Consider rabbits? My wife and I are just starting out with them, but from what research we have done:
1. they reproduce... ummm ... like rabbits... one male can service several females (lucky guy)
2. the meat is very lean and high in protein
3. they are relatively clean and easy to care for

In our case (my homestead in town) a key factor is theat they are SILENT and don't STINK and don't take up a lot of ROOM.

John


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## bombardier666

*Rabbits good, pig feed?*

If you live in a rural area pig feed can be picked up from any feedlot. Otherwise I imagine you would have to order it. Like I said before, pigs are also very prone to disease, most of which humans can get sick from. Rabbits, Chickens, Goats, all sustainable and like J&J said, the reproduce quickly.


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## mountainmade

obviously you would get more meet out of a cow. If you raise the two for one year depending on the breed of each you may end up with a 75 lb live goat and a 250 lb cow give or take. Then you subtract weight for the guts, hide and bone.
Still more from a cow. What you must consider is your available resources hay gets expensive and in the winter can be hard to find. If your working with small acreage I'd go with the goat. they can eat a lot of things a cow won't touch. (you can't get butter from a goats milk though.) Rabbits are ok but they are too lean to survive off of alone (rabbit starvation is the term)


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## *Andi

mountainmade said:


> obviously you would get more meet out of a cow. If you raise the two for one year depending on the breed of each you may end up with a 75 lb live goat and a 250 lb cow give or take. Then you subtract weight for the guts, hide and bone.
> Still more from a cow. What you must consider is your available resources hay gets expensive and in the winter can be hard to find. If your working with small acreage I'd go with the goat. they can eat a lot of things a cow won't touch. (you can't get butter from a goats milk though.) Rabbits are ok but they are too lean to survive off of alone (rabbit starvation is the term)


I agree with most of what you said ... but ... (you can't get butter from a goats milk though.)

Sure you can, is it easy no but it can and has been done.


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## backlash

My Grand parents always raised pigs.
They didn't spend a lot of time or money caring for them.
They fed them scraps and pig feed.
When it came time to butcher they did it all themselves.
Nothing went to waste.
They cured their own bacon and ham and rendered the fat into lard.
Grandma even cooked the head, I never asked what she did with it.
They ate fried pork 3 times a day and Grandma was 92 when she died.


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## HickIndustries

unklfstr said:


> What animal would produce more meat over time if I purchased some; sheep or cows?


On most pasture, one cow eats as much as five goats or sheep. The smaller stock will mature and be large enough to butcher (120 lbs) in 6-8 months. The cow takes 18-24 months to reach 1200 lbs.

We used to buy dairy caves before they were weened in the spring and often butchered them at 4-500 lbs in late fall. We called them freezer calves. This is a good alternative.

If you are doing math, the goats and sheep produce more meat in less time with less food. If you have to buy hay for winter feeding the decision is easy. Butcher your lambs and kids in the fall and carry over only your breeding stock.

If you have a small pasture, limited hay storage, or fewer folks at the table, the goat or sheep makes more sense. If you have lots of pasture and a big family to feed, consider freezer calves.

I used to raise pigs, rabbits, and chickens as well. The correct answer is to raise all of them.


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## The_Blob

HickIndustries said:


> I used to raise pigs, rabbits, and chickens as well. The correct answer is to raise all of them.


I would add the caveat: *ideally* 

pigs are 'unhealthy' when they are treated as organic robots on large 'industrial farms' (I use the term 'farm' loosely :rant: ) designed to produce 'meat' in overcrowded conditions where the hygienic level swings like a pendulum depending on how long into the 'cleaning cycle' it is.

humans in overcrowded slums historically got pretty sick quite often too (black death, anyone?)...

we raise our pigs (1 per year) for 10 months until they are about 200-250 lbs, that gives us anywhere from 120-150 lbs of 'cuts' along with some salvageable edible organs (heart, liver, skin - we don't butcher the barrows ourselves, the guy we get the runt from does it) IMHO raise & butcher a barrow (castrated male) or a gilt (pre-estrous young female) as opposed to a boar or an in-heat sow; the meat tastes better, of course if all you have are the latter then geld the boar and allow the wound to heal and/or wait for the sow to go out of heat before slaughtering if you can

hungry now... :gaah:


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## 1969cj-5

The_Blob said:


> I would add the caveat: *ideally*
> 
> pigs are 'unhealthy' when they are treated as organic robots on large 'industrial farms' (I use the term 'farm' loosely :rant: ) designed to produce 'meat' in overcrowded conditions where the hygienic level swings like a pendulum depending on how long into the 'cleaning cycle' it is.
> 
> humans in overcrowded slums historically got pretty sick quite often too (black death, anyone?)...
> 
> we raise our pigs (1 per year) for 10 months until they are about 200-250 lbs, that gives us anywhere from 120-150 lbs of 'cuts' along with some salvageable edible organs (heart, liver, skin - we don't butcher the barrows ourselves, the guy we get the runt from does it) IMHO raise & butcher a barrow (castrated male) or a gilt (pre-estrous young female) as opposed to a boar or an in-heat sow; the meat tastes better, of course if all you have are the latter then geld the boar and allow the wound to heal and/or wait for the sow to go out of heat before slaughtering if you can
> 
> hungry now... :gaah:


We have 3 ready for buthcer. Since I am currently deployed my Wife arranged with the Amish Family down the road to trade 1 of the gilts for 300 dollars in produce and butchering of one gilt for us. Still have one Barrow to find a home for. We are also having our fourth Gilt bred to a Boar down the road so we do not need to search for feeder pigs next spring.


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## The_Blob

1969cj-5 said:


> We have 3 ready for buthcer. Since I am currently deployed my Wife arranged with the Amish Family down the road to trade 1 of the gilts for 300 dollars in produce and butchering of one gilt for us. Still have one Barrow to find a home for. We are also having our fourth Gilt bred to a Boar down the road so we do not need to search for feeder pigs next spring.


I trade mechanical work on his equipment

:congrat: to you, good job!

I usually get a 'runt' barrow and feed him restaurant 'scraps' (mostly french fries), ice cream, dog food, beer, etc etc you get the picture -- like Kurobuta pork without the massages 

KBA Kurobuta Bone-In Pork Chop

 at THOSE prices, I just might start massages!


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## whome

I think it boils down to (no pun intended) to your situation. How much land do you have, how much time do you have, is it SHTF time and are you bugging out. etc. There is no "easy" way to answer this question, you would have to raise all of the above mentioned livestock to decide what you are willing to do to have fresh meat. It is all do-able, if you WANT it to be. 
We just sent four hogs to the butcher. Two were for other people, two were for us. I'll keep one in the freezer and I will can the other one up. I even render the lard and can it. Nothing makes a better biscuit or pie crust than lard. We used to butcher our hogs ourselves when we had a place to do it. We will be getting back to that in the future. Hogs are the most meat for the carcass. They aren't that hard to take care of, and yes, you can raise them without antibiotics. Sure, you might lose one sometimes, but that's just the roll of the dice, so to speak. I also keep chickens. They are really easy and a good way to start with livestock. In the past I have also kept steers, goats, sheep, a milk cow, and horses. Keeping livestock is a calling and a livestyle if you ask me, not everyone is cut out for it. Only you can make that call. Start out small and don't take on more than one or two livestock challanges a year, be prepared for weird things to happen, because if you keep livestock, it will. Just remember that old adage: never invest more in livestock than you can afford to lose.
Sorry got off track
Sheep vs Steers.
Okay, I tried to answer this and my reply was looking like a book. I deleted that and I have decided that question is like comparing apples to oranges. Go back to the part where I told you that you have to find the answer from your own experience. Good luck.


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## lickit

*goats and sheep tear up grass by its roots, ruining*

the pasturage. Cattle and horses shear it off above the ground. Hogs trample and wallow and generally ruin an area, unless they have LOT of room to roam around in. Texas and other states are shooting hogs like vermin, leaving the bodies to rot. Rabbits require care that dogs, etc, don't overturn their cages and kill them. Goats usually have more than one kid, cows rarely have more than one calf. While a sow might have a dozen piglets or more, she usually can't feed more than 8 or so with her milk. So the runts die at an early age, or you have to hand feed them and protect them from the other pigs.


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## whome

lickit said:


> the pasturage. Cattle and horses shear it off above the ground. Hogs trample and wallow and generally ruin an area, unless they have LOT of room to roam around in. Texas and other states are shooting hogs like vermin, leaving the bodies to rot. Rabbits require care that dogs, etc, don't overturn their cages and kill them. Goats usually have more than one kid, cows rarely have more than one calf. While a sow might have a dozen piglets or more, she usually can't feed more than 8 or so with her milk. So the runts die at an early age, or you have to hand feed them and protect them from the other pigs.


All livestock have pros and cons. Every person has to decide what will work for them. To me, having livestock is worth the work and effort because even though I love vegetables, I like me some bbq too!


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## lickit

*hogs require good fences, they root their way under them.*

and they can "go feral" in short order if you don't corral them again quickly. If you are thinking shtf prep, forget the cattle, way too big-visible-desirable for looters, too incapable of living on their own. Sheep are helpless, a small pack of little dogs will run them until the sheep just lie down and die. I aint kidding, ask any vet.


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## kejmack

I know Lickit seems to think he is an expert on everything but "a small pack of little dogs" will not run your sheep to death. I was farm raised and farmed for 25 years.

In Virginia I raised purebred Shetland sheep. I kept a large flock (80-100 sheep). Shetlands are a "primitive" breed meaning they have not been improved by man. They are excellent mothers, twins are common, they lamb easily. The meat is excellent and you have the fleece. My Shetland ewes beat the living daylights out of my German Shepherd one time when he got too close to the lambs. (Embarrassing I know.) Shetland sheep are foragers, not grazers. They have a good feed/meat ratio. 

Pigs are simple to keep except they are hard of fencing--a simple electric wire at snout height will keep them off the fence. If you have a dairy cow, you can feed the extra milk to the pig. We pastured our pigs and they did not go feral. We fed them inside the catch pen so they were easy to catch when we needed to. Pigs can be kept in places that cows can not. 

Cows require lots of space and lot of husbandry. They require the most feed for the least return on meat ratio. 

If I could raise only one kind of livestock, it would be in order of preference 1) pigs 2) sheep or goats 3) a cow.


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## The_Blob

most farms I've worked have a few pigs that spend most of the day 'reprocessing' the cows' manure...  and eating 'slops' 

I know that grosses many people out, but hey, you aint kissing em'


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## Jaspar

unklfstr said:


> What animal would produce more meat over time if I purchased some; sheep or cows?


neither. get chickens and goats. Goats eat less and provide meat/milk just like a cow. chickens eat little and provide eggs.


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## Ezmerelda

I've been wanting to get a pig just so it could "plow" the rest of my garden like her pig did for her:










» The pig: A lazy gardener's best tool

It's a very funny post. If a pig could get rid of the knee-high weeds and reduce it down to dirt, I'd be happy. And I love me some bacon!


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## VUnder

Sheep or goats would be better. Cattle are large and harder to handle without chutes, head gates, horses to go along with the cattle management kit. Somebody comes along and kills a sheep and eats it, you are not out that much. Somebody kills a cow and eats it, devastating to you. Easier to keep a lot of goats or sheep in said amount of land. Goats for sure have a more diverse diet, will eat most anything as high as they can reach. 

Down side is that goats and sheep have to be herded, need a full time shepherd. Cows can take care of themselves, especially if you throw a donkey in there. Donkeys will run off dogs, coyotes, wolves, and even mountain lions. Old donkeys are tough and crafty. We keep some with our cows. Donkeys don't seem to work good with goats, at least a jack don't.

Just some pros and cons. We have cows now, but if things get bad, I will be milking a goat. If I get kicked, it will be a bruise instead of a broken leg. That is something to think about too, your health, you can't afford to be seriously injured when there is not a hospital. Just go spend some time around some Brahma cattle and go buy a goat herd, or sheep. You can even make wool. Of course, with a cow, you can make a teepee.


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## Wallrat

One thing to consider is the cost difference between a three-strand barbed wire fence, and a woven fence for pigs goats and sheep. It'll take a while to make up for the added expense, I'd say.


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## The_Blob

Wallrat said:


> One thing to consider is the cost difference between a three-strand barbed wire fence, and a woven fence for pigs goats and sheep. It'll take a while to make up for the added expense, I'd say.


This seems to come up as a concern on the forum a lot when discussing livestock; not that I've raised whole herds at a time, but I have never had a pig or goat 'wander off', sure they'll get out of the fence, but many times they seem to want to stay where 'home' (the food) is ... :dunno:


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## Wallrat

Gaah, how do I delete a duplicate?


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## Wallrat

We live in coyote country, so I was thinking more of keeping unwanted guests out. Still, I didn't know they wouldn't wander off. Good info!


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## *Andi

The_Blob said:


> This seems to come up as a concern on the forum a lot when discussing livestock; not that I've raised whole herds at a time, but I have never had a pig or goat 'wander off', sure they'll get out of the fence, but many times they seem to want to stay where 'home' (the food) is ... :dunno:


My problem is keeping them out of ... the garden, fruit trees, herbs and etc... lol

An yes, them coyotes can be a problem. :gaah:


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## FunnyFarm

We raise a small flock of sheep, meat rabbits, pigs, the occasional steer, chickens. Of these the sheep are the easiest keepers eat the least and take less labor than the rest. The meat rabbits are quite labor intensive and in the winter months become quite a pain(frozen water bottles). Pigs are easy enough but if you don't have a proper pen you WILL be chasing them around the neighborhood and if you are thinking of pasture raising them be prepared to see your pasture turned into a mud pit they will root the whole thing up. If you choose the steer consider just how much they eat. So you will either need a lot of pasture or a lot of hay. We have also raised goats they are a bit tougher to raise than sheep and are harder to keep inside fences. I'd choose the sheep.


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## Jimmy24

At this point, I don't really have the required acreage for cattle. Even if I did, I wouldn't keep them. I have "worked" cows for years with my ex's family and now one of my friends has about 35 Angus and the one thing most don't think about...cows can be very dangerous. 600-800 lb momma cow owns the ground she stands on. A 250-500 lb yearling will smooth run over you. So in a TEOTWAWKI you might not want to get in a pen with one...medical attention may not be availble. Just thinking....

I do have pigs, wild ones that I catch and feed out. They are pen kept. Chickens, turkeys and still plan on 2 goats down the line, for milk, cheese and butter. I also have 3 ponds I have access to to fish in. The occasional deer will be my "beef"  

Jimmy


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## kejmack

J&J said:


> Consider rabbits? My wife and I are just starting out with them, but from what research we have done:
> 1. they reproduce... ummm ... like rabbits... one male can service several females (lucky guy)
> 2. the meat is very lean and high in protein
> 3. they are relatively clean and easy to care for
> 
> John


John, don't rely on rabbits exclusively for your survival. Rabbits do not have the fat necessary to feed your brain. You will develope malnutrition without some other source of protein.


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## Raetsch1

*Barbado sheep*

I keep 2 horses, about 8 ewes, a ram, and 14 cows with a bull. The sheep win hands down. I feed them to keep happy and coming back. I pretty much release them in the morning to graze and browse and give them a coffee can full of corn in the evening so the are trained to return and I can pen them as I live in coyote country. They eat what cows won't. Chickens are easy too but with all my animals I provide a safe, predator- proof pens for nights.


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## monolith224

kejmack said:


> John, don't rely on rabbits exclusively for your survival. Rabbits do not have the fat necessary to feed your brain. You will develope malnutrition without some other source of protein.


There is plenty of fat in the offal. Just eat the whole thing, and you'll be fine.


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## Jarhead0311

lickit said:


> Hogs trample and wallow and generally ruin an area, unless they have LOT of room to roam around in.


That's what hog rings are for. Hogs do very well on pasture and grain.


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## Tank_Girl

To add to the urban livestock where rabbits are ideal a lot of Aussie households are getting into quail for meat and eggs.


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## Raetsch1

On second thought, I'd add goats to the sheep. Because I live on a couple hundred acres, cows are a tax necessity. I couldn't butcher one by myself, my family couldn't consume one in a few months. A cow is 40% meat. For a 1000lb steer, that's 400 lbs of meat. That's 100 lbs for everybody in my family. Cows are impractical for anybody but professional butchers unless you have a tight-knit community. My grandparents said they'd butcher a cow with neighbors helping and every family would take a share. Of course back then, families had more kids to feed too, and more hands to work. For being prepared, goats are very useful, consume most anything sheep will not, but are absolute HELL to keep in. If you want to know if a goat can get out, my grandfather said to take a bucket of water and throw it at the fence. If any of it gets on the other side, a goat can get out of it. He was right. Sheep are more respectful of a fence, flock together, and always seem to come back at night once they are in the habit. They're fairly docile too. Mine are Barbado hair sheep. They're a bit wilder, but still share a flocking instinct and come back at night. I have eaten them and they taste better than wool sheep as they aren't as greasy. I second the chickens. No person in their right mind should have any acrage without chickens. There are times that I don't feed them for weeks and yet they still get plenty to eat by foraging for bugs; also keeping the insect population down around the house. Nothing beats a good hen laying a tasty egg a day. I keep about 10 through the winter. If you keep full sized hens, I suggest Dominques, one of the oldest American breeds- they are almost indistinguishable from barred rocks, but they are so much more docile. If I sit on the ground, at least one hen will come up and get in my lap. I also have Production Reds, a great breed for meat and eggs. Get yourself a couple bantam hens too. If you want to reproduce eggs, you'll need a broody hen and it seems like the setting instinct has been bred out of full-size hens, but bantams are reliable setters. Make sure you have a source of water for all your stock, or you'll find in 3 days to a week that your investment has died. I have a pond about 300' from my house, and the chickens would die if that was the only water around. They rarely venture beyond my yard fence because they know they are safe inside the fence. Get a good dog and gun too. You'll need to protect these critters from other critters. Dogs will do it and if they come across something they can't handle, the gun probably can. A .22 or 12 gage works fine for my purposes.


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## Jaspar

unklfstr said:


> What animal would produce more meat over time if I purchased some; sheep or cows?


Do you have pasture?

We raise 4-6 steers/heifers a year on 4 acres of grass no problem. We even cut the grass for hay a couple of times in late summer. We also have a well, which is nice. If you have limited space i would go with goats. Cattle can be a pain in limited space.

The nice thing about raising livestock on pasture is not having to muck out their stalls/cages/coops.


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## dawnwinds58

*My meat setup.*

We raise Heritage Red Wattle hogs and wouldn't have a production breed tampered with by the big producers. They grow only a bit slower, have excellent pet-quality temperments, and the meat tastes worlds better. Ours start breeding at 9 months, well they try to but we wait till there at leat a year before we let them get 'friendly.'

We also raise Pilgrim geese, another Heritage breed who are sex-linked so you can easily tell males from females. All the boys are blue-eyed white and all the girls are gray mixed with some white on ther heads behind their bills.

We keep Buff Orpington chickens and Pekin ducks together in the chicken house. There's an entrance deck with a mid landing like a set of stairs to help the less agile ducks get in and out of the house easily. Other than that there are no special tactics to put them together. The chickens lay up and the ducks lay down in the boxes. The more agressive ducks also help warn us if anything is after our chickens. In April we have some Jumbo Pekin males coming to freshen the bloodlines and to increase the size of the ducks born of that mating. It should increase the carcass weights when we butcher ducks. Don't raise birds without a plucker. It can make all the difference in being able to raise your own table fowl. You can make them yourself from an old washer or any motor that turns, and it saves loads of time in a large slaughter.






We plan on adding Silver Laced Wyandottes for their broody qualities and Fawn and White Runner ducks for their excellent rich eggs. The runners also make great garden bug removers. In other countries they herd the ducks out to work the fields in the morning and then back to their pens at night. To me this is way better than coating your food supply with pesticides. 
You'll love this youtube example of duck herding.






We are looking for either Kiko meat goats as another source of protein or American Barbados sheep. Both are vigorus and have great parasite resistance. They keep easily and will eat most any rough.


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