# Make your own insulin - gather your equipment now



## Bobbb

If you have diabetes or are likely to get it or are concerned about someone with diabetes or at risk, then preparation on this issue is probably the single most critical prep you can make in order to survive. You can always scrounge around for food, water, shelter but insulin doesn't grow on trees and here life and death will be dependent on preparation. Gather your equipment now, before you put away food or ammo. Once you have your equipment then practice and make a few batches EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE THEM. There will be risk in using your home-made insulin, so don't use it and risk adverse outcomes. The point here is that when you run out of lab insulin and your choice boils down to dying or using home-made insulin, then the risk of the home made insulin is preferable to death. Keep in mind that the operative word here is risk, not certainty of bad, or even sub-optimal, outcome. Modern pharmaceutical practices yield very safe medicine whereas a home brew can't come up to those standards each and every time you make a batch.

Here's the original recipe which led to a Nobel Prize:

Best and Scott who are responsible for the preparation of insulin in the Insulin Division of the Connaught Laboratories have tested all the available methods and have appropriated certain details from many of these; several new procedures which have been found advantageous have been introduced by them.* The yield of insulin* obtained by Best and Scott at the Connaught Laboratories, by a preliminary extraction with dilute sulphuric acid followed by alcohol, *is 1,800 to 2,200 units per kg of pancreas*.

The present method of preparation is as follows. The beef or pork pancreas is finely minced in a large grinder and the minced material is then treated with 5 cc of concentrated sulphuric acid, appropriately diluted, per pound of glands. The mixture is stirred for a period of three or four hours and 95 per cent alcohol is added until the concentration of alcohol is 60 to 70 per cent. Two extractions of the glands are made. The solid material is then partially removed by centrifuging the mixture and the solution is further clarified by filtering through paper. The filtrate is practically neutralized with NaOH. The clear filtrate is concentrated in vacuo to about 1/15 of its original volume. The concentrate is then heated to 50°C which results in the separation of lipoid and other materials, which are removed by filtration. Ammonium sulphate (37 g per 100 cc) is then added to the concentrate and a protein material containing all the insulin floats to the top of the liquid. The precipitate is skimmed off and dissolved in hot acid alcohol. When the precipitate has completely dissolved, 10 volumes of warm alcohol are added. The solution is then neutralized with NaOH and cooled to room temperature, and kept in a refrigerator at 5°C for two days. At the end of this time the dark-coloured supernatant alcohol is decanted off. The alcohol contains practically no potency. The precipitate is dried in vacuo to remove all trace of the alcohol. It is then dissolved in acid water, in which it is readily soluble. The solution is made alkaline with NaOH to pH 7.3 to 7.5. At this alkalinity a dark-coloured precipitate settles out, and is immediately centrifuged off. This precipitate is washed once or twice with alkaline water of pH 9.0 and the washings are added to the main liquid. It is important that this process be carried out fairly quickly as insulin is destroyed in alkaline solution. The acidity is adjusted to pH 5.0 and a white precipitate readily settles out. Tricresol is added to a concentration of 0.3% in order to assist in the iso-electric precipitation and to act as a preservative. After standing one week in the ice chest, the supernatant liquid is decanted off and the resultant liquid is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate is then dissolved in a small quantity of acid water. A second iso-electric precipitation is carried out by adjusting the acidity to a pH of approximately 5.0. After standing overnight the resultant precipitate is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate, which contains the active principle in a comparatively pure form, is dissolved in acid water and the hydrogenion concentration adjusted to pH 2.5. The material is carefully tested to determine the potency and is then diluted to the desired strength of 10, 20, 40, or 80 units per cc. Tricresol is added to secure a concentration of 0.1 per cent. Sufficient sodium chloride is added to make the solution isotonic. The insulin solution is passed through a Mandler filter. After passing through the filter the insulin is retested carefully to determine its potency. There is practically no loss in berkefelding. The tested insulin is poured into sterile glass vials with aseptic precautions and the sterility of the final product thoroughly tested by approved methods.

The method of estimating the potency of insulin solutions is based on the effect that insulin produces upon the blood sugar of normal animals. Rabbits serve as the test animal. They are starved for twenty-four hours before the administration of insulin. Their weight should be approximately 2 kg. Insulin is distributed in strengths of 10, 20, 40, and 80 units per cc. The unit is one third of the amount of material required to lower the blood sugar of a 2-kg rabbit which has fasted twenty-four hours from the normal level (0.118 per cent) to 0.045 per cent over a period of five hours. In a moderately severe case of diabetes, one unit causes about 2.5 grams of carbohydrate to be utilized. In earlier and milder cases, as a rule, one unit has a greater effect, accounting for three to five grams of carbohydrate.​


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## LincTex

Holy $4it Batman, that is a lot of work. 
I am glad I will never need to do this, 
and I feel for those that are seriously considering it.


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## lazydaisy67

Um yeah. I gave up reading the directions after the 2nd step! I know of 2 people who are type 1 and it's horrible to think of what will happen to them after.


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## CrackbottomLouis

I think they started using sheep pancreas pretty quickly because the got better results. Might wanna check on that before starting this process. They do have insulin that is shelf stable until you open it now if im not mistaken. Not sure about shelf life but at least you dont need to constantly refigerate entire stock. If anyone pulls this off Id love to see pics.


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## Redtail

Shelf life refrigerated is a few months, if I'm not mistaken. 

Looking through these directions, I'm fairly certain I understand now why my father groaned and rolled his eyes when I suggested it might be possible to manufacture insulin. THe tertiary alcohols and some of the binding reagents might be even harder to find after the collapse than insulin itself.


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## Bobbb

Redtail said:


> Shelf life refrigerated is a few months, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Looking through these directions, I'm fairly certain I understand now why my father groaned and rolled his eyes when I suggested it might be possible to manufacture insulin. THe tertiary alcohols and some of the binding reagents *might be even harder to find after* the collapse than insulin itself.


Doesn't that view then simply reinforce the point I'm making which is that if you launch this endeavor AFTER the collapse that you're going to be facing an insurmountable problem? The time to prepare and PRACTICE is while the entire world's industrial and manufacturing infrastructure is still in place, operational and efficient.

The way I see it this is an expected value calculation - how much is a life worth, how do you assess the risk of collapse, particularly the subset of collapse which completely breaks the insulin supply chain and once this is calculated by you how much are you willing to invest in this equipment, supplies, skills and practice as form of insurance against the likelihood of bad outcome that you've calculated.

That's the thing with insurance - it's costs us all quite a bit every year and it offers us no return at all in most years, that is, until we face an insurable event and then it pays big time. This endeavor will be money down the drain if a severe collapse doesn't occur, but if it does, then the money and time invested today will literally save lives in the future.

People don't buy insurance and they're ahead of the game, money wise, every year. If their house burns down then there goes their entire life savings which if they had insurance wouldn't be the case.


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## Ezmerelda

These "instructions" would be much more useful if translated into every day language, including non-technical names of the chemicals and where you would source them currently, how to make a home made centrifuge, how to cool the sample without electricity, etc. etc.


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## LincTex

Ezmerelda said:


> how to make a home made centrifuge,


You won't, period. Not for what you are wanting to do. 
I see them on ebay pretty cheap sometimes.


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## kejmack

Currently insulin is synthetically produced. Previously, insulin was taken from pig pancreas. A lot of people have a reaction to using animal insulin because it is not a perfect match.


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## bahramthered

Am I the only one thinking that getting animals regularly in SH!T is unlikely?


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## Davarm

I use insulin, shelf life can be in the years if properly stored.

I have a years supply on hand and can refrigerate it in a "Coleman Cooler" that I will power off a battery charged by a solar pannel if need be.

I currently have some of the following in my stores(refrigerator)

Novolog expires 03/2015
Humulin R expires 02/2015
Humulin N expires 09/2015
Novolin N expires 07/2015

That will easily enable someone to store 2+ years worth if stored between 34 and 78 degrees and kept in a clean environment.



Redtail said:


> Shelf life refrigerated is a few months, if I'm not mistaken.
> 
> Looking through these directions, I'm fairly certain I understand now why my father groaned and rolled his eyes when I suggested it might be possible to manufacture insulin. THe tertiary alcohols and some of the binding reagents might be even harder to find after the collapse than insulin itself.


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## LincTex

Davarm said:


> store 2+ years worth if stored between 34 and 78 degrees and kept in a clean environment.


Wow, that should be easy to do! I always thought it needed to be refrigerated.


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## Davarm

LincTex said:


> Wow, that should be easy to do! I always thought it needed to be refrigerated.


The "Poop Sheets" in the boxes the vials come in states that storage criteria however, once a bottle gets the needle for the first time, it does need to be treated a little more carefully.


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## Redtail

My father had reactions to both beef and pig insulin during the early '80's due to allergies, and was on Humalog synthetic stuff for as long as I can recall.


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## Davarm

Redtail said:


> My father had reactions to both beef and pig insulin during the early '80's due to allergies, and was on Humalog synthetic stuff for as long as I can recall.


Most of the modern insulins are made by GM'd bacteria and you bypass the possible reactions common in some of the older "brews", they are also identical to the human hormone so they tend to work better too.


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## Bobbb

Davarm said:


> *Most of the modern insulins are made by GM'd bacteria *and you bypass the possible reactions common in some of the older "brews", they are also identical to the human hormone so they tend to work better too.


That news should really unsettle any diabetics who also have strong feelings about eating GMO food.


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## Davarm

Bobbb said:


> That news should really unsettle any diabetics who also have strong feelings about eating GMO food.


Yea, but its a little better than the slow death diabetes dishes out! I still have the goal of kicking the insulin habit, have come up with successes and its not out of the picture by a long way.


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## Redtail

It's great for those who can do it with careful diet monitoring. It's less encouraging when you're like my old man and simply haven't got a pancreas.

I'll talk to him about stocking-up.


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## Davarm

Redtail said:


> It's great for those who can do it with careful diet monitoring. It's less encouraging when you're like my old man and simply haven't got a pancreas.
> 
> I'll talk to him about stocking-up.


Since the purchase of the older(not new cutting edge) insulins dont require a prescription to purchase, each time he buys a vial, check the expiration dates, if it is well into the future have him set it aside and buy another. When he gets a few years worth in the fridge he can start using the oldest first and replacing with those that expire well into the future.

The Humilin and Novolins at the Walmart Pharmacies cost $24 plus change, not cheap but well into the range of being able to stock up a few years worth.


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## Dakine

Davarm said:


> Since the purchase of the older(not new cutting edge) insulins dont require a prescription to purchase, each time he buys a vial, check the expiration dates, if it is well into the future have him set it aside and buy another. When he gets a few years worth in the fridge he can start using the oldest first and replacing with those that expire well into the future.
> 
> The Humilin and Novolins at the Walmart Pharmacies cost $24 plus change, not cheap but well into the range of being able to stock up a few years worth.


$24 gets how many doses? and how often would they need to be administered? I dont know how much a box of syringes would cost but I'm sure that could be easily obtained.


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## Davarm

Dakine said:


> $24 gets how many doses? and how often would they need to be administered? I dont know how much a box of syringes would cost but I'm sure that could be easily obtained.


It's impossible to say how many doses 1 vial will provide, too many variables to figure in from person to person. The time period the doses are effective for vary from brand to brand of insulin, the Novolog for instance, starts working in as little as 5 minutes - will peak after about an hour and will last for about 3 hours, but a prescription is required for that brand. Humilin R doesn't require a prescription and takes much longer to take effect and to reach full effectiveness but can last up to 6 hours. You have to be familiar with the characteristics of each brand used and dose accordingly.

A persons blood sugar is is dramatically effected by things like diet, stress, activity level, the amount of sleep you get and even how much natural sunlight you get. I can get by on a vial a month of regular insulin and that can be dramatically cut back if "Long Acting" insulin is used with the regular. If I am doing manual outside work on a sunny day, sometimes I can go without dosing at all.

All the non prescription types(that I have purchased) cost the same at Wally World, but at a regular pharmacy the prices more than double. I dont know how much syringes cost, Its been so long since I bought them that I have lost track of the price.


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## Riverdale

Sunchokes (aka Jersalem Artichokes)


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## urbansurvivor

I'm going to put this one in the survival binder for TEOTWAWKI. I don't the need to make it now but who knows what the future may hold. Nice post thanks for the info.


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## Freyadog

Riverdale said:


> Sunchokes (aka Jersalem Artichokes)


not grasping this.... more information please. Have a brother who is a diabetic and am looking at all angles.


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## riverpilot69

Freyadog said:


> not grasping this.... more information please. Have a brother who is a diabetic and am looking at all angles.


Jeruselum artichokes are very high in Inulin. The inulin is very good for keeping blood sugar levels in check. They are also high in Potassium, and Magnesium. Also great for sugar levels. They are easily cultivated, and stored. They can be eaten raw or cooked. I have eaten them sauteed and find them very tasty. Do a search and find out what they look like. You have probably walked across them and not even known what they were. They are a great substitute for potatoes, as they contain no starch.


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## LongRider

bahramthered said:


> Am I the only one thinking that getting animals regularly in SH!T is unlikely?


There is an ancient solution to that problem. Called livestock and hunting many of us raise some sort of meat animal like goats. Getting animlas should not be an insurmountable problem for any one who needs to use this process or wants to eat on a regular basis.


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## muskratmama

kejmack said:


> Currently insulin is synthetically produced. Previously, insulin was taken from pig pancreas. A lot of people have a reaction to using animal insulin because it is not a perfect match.


Millions of people did very well with pork and beef insulin for 50 years. A few people had reactions. I'm guessing that if you don't make it professionally it won't be quite as safe the stuff worked really well for a long time and would still be working well if e-coli wasn't so amazingly prolific. (I'm glad the instructions didn't say "take a bacteria and insert a gene sequence.) 
Remember we'll have a lot less food so it won't have to work as well.


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## boss429

You may also consider in a survival situation over time you will loose weight which will decrease your need for insulin therefore your supply will last much longer. You need to have testing supplies strips/batteries etc...


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## muskratmama

bahramthered said:


> Am I the only one thinking that getting animals regularly in SH!T is unlikely?


I don't think animals will be the problem particularly. Most any pancreas will do. All those things like accurate ph measurements and % alcohol and accurate reagents and temperatures are the problem. This wasn't cooked up in a kitchen but in a lab with at least hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment if not millions, and a hefty grant for lots of trial and error. 
Nevertheless it would be great if SOMEONE didn't forget how to make it. 
But today's insulin is not actually synthesized. It is produced by genetically modified bacteria. The bits that make it last 24 hours or however long are considered semisynthetic. No one makes earth/air/fire/water insulin. Maybe we should be using our guns and lentils to preserve a like-minded science lab. 
If insulin is lost, I think those people are lost - not type II diabetics who will mostly do fairly well on the paleo diet and in fact probably many of them will have a survival advantage. 
Type one diabetics should keep a rotating stock of the longest shelf life insulin, and concentrate on finding a way to keep it cooled. It will probably last 2 years unopened at pretty much full strength then GRADUALLY lose potency. 
While on the topic, Thyroid extract is achievable (because it goes through the stomach) and probably will affect more people. Has a recipe been posted for that?


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## muskratmama

Bobbb said:


> That news should really unsettle any diabetics who also have strong feelings about eating GMO food.


THis is not really like genetically modified food. It is much more simplified, a single splice into a bacteria, that produces insulin which is purified and sometimes modified before release. 
GMO food splices something into a very complex organism that can have a chain of unintended consequences in "downstream" genes. Surely this is well known as it came out over 30 years ago and it's really too late to become squeamish.


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## muskratmama

Davarm said:


> I use insulin, shelf life can be in the years if properly stored.
> 
> I have a years supply on hand and can refrigerate it in a "Coleman Cooler" that I will power off a battery charged by a solar pannel if need be.
> 
> I currently have some of the following in my stores(refrigerator)
> 
> Novolog expires 03/2015
> Humulin R expires 02/2015
> Humulin N expires 09/2015
> Novolin N expires 07/2015
> 
> That will easily enable someone to store 2+ years worth if stored between 34 and 78 degrees and kept in a clean environment.


Exactly. The new stuff I just posted is an annoying waste but I really looked and didn't find this post before.


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## Newbie007

muskratmama said:


> I don't think animals will be the problem particularly. Most any pancreas will do. All those things like accurate ph measurements and % alcohol and accurate reagents and temperatures are the problem. This wasn't cooked up in a kitchen but in a lab with at least hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of equipment if not millions, and a hefty grant for lots of trial and error.
> Nevertheless it would be great if SOMEONE didn't forget how to make it.
> But today's insulin is not actually synthesized. It is produced by genetically modified bacteria. The bits that make it last 24 hours or however long are considered semisynthetic. No one makes earth/air/fire/water insulin. Maybe we should be using our guns and lentils to preserve a like-minded science lab.
> If insulin is lost, I think those people are lost - not type II diabetics who will mostly do fairly well on the paleo diet and in fact probably many of them will have a survival advantage.
> Type one diabetics should keep a rotating stock of the longest shelf life insulin, and concentrate on finding a way to keep it cooled. It will probably last 2 years unopened at pretty much full strength then GRADUALLY lose potency.
> While on the topic, Thyroid extract is achievable (because it goes through the stomach) and probably will affect more people. Has a recipe been posted for that?


Why do you think type ii diabetics would have a survival advantage on a paleo diet. Please explain. Thx


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## mtexplorer

Hopefully someone in your prepper circle will know how to do this. What will be needed the most will be the equipment. If anyone has access to the lab supplies/equipment, and, can afford to buy them, should. Even if you don't know how to use it. If it was in my budget I would buy this stuff. NOT to profit from it if it was needed, but to help others in a SHTF scenario. Medical needs will ultimately be one of our greatest challenges in a grid down situation. I'm working on joining my local EMS to obtain the EMT training. The training is invaluable. People with this challenging disease need to do what they can for their own survival. I have a female friend who is about to become diabetic due to a cancer operation. I fully intend to urge her to start stockpiling supplies and also obtain the largest amount of insulin she can afford. I know it has a shelf life but continued stocking and rotation will at least give her an additional edge of time. If anyone decides to buy the equipment, remember to pay cash, no CC's or online purchases unless you set up a shadow name and location. The f e d s are all over purchases like this, they are watching for ter or ist cells making b i o . I can hunt, I can fish, I can make things, but I am no doctor so the best thing I can do to help is to invest in the supplies so someone in my circle will have what they need to help me or my family. 
There are natural substitutes for insulin, one of them is juniper berries. Not the same as medical insulin but might keep a person alive until a product can be made or bartered for. Juniper is also region specific so that's another issue. It's available in capsule form with a good shelf life. 

Recruit people with medical training into your circle. Their knowledge is worth more than any money in the world. 

If SHTF the only thing I will be able to do for these people is pray for them

M


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## muskratmama

Newbie007 said:


> Why do you think type ii diabetics would have a survival advantage on a paleo diet. Please explain. Thx


I'll try. IMHO the genetic predisposition for type II diabetes is an adaptation to winter starvation/ paleo type diet - a good thing for most of history. These folks adapted to snatch up every available calorie and store it for the winter, shut down metabolism, and make it through starvation times. For these folks, diabetes only happens because there is too much food and it tastes too good. When they put on weight, the insulin stops working, and the pancreas produces more and more until it gives out. We don't really have a name for these folks before they develop a disease (I am one of them ) but they are born this way, they have these traits for their whole lifetime. 
Given that even their fertility increases dramatically when they are thin, it would have only taken a few generations of hardship to cull the "nonthrifty" trait.


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## Newbie007

muskratmama said:


> I'll try. IMHO the genetic predisposition for type II diabetes is an adaptation to winter starvation/ paleo type diet - a good thing for most of history. These folks adapted to snatch up every available calorie and store it for the winter, shut down metabolism, and make it through starvation times. For these folks, diabetes only happens because there is too much food and it tastes too good. When they put on weight, the insulin stops working, and the pancreas produces more and more until it gives out. We don't really have a name for these folks before they develop a disease (I am one of them ) but they are born this way, they have these traits for their whole lifetime.
> Given that even their fertility increases dramatically when they are thin, it would have only taken a few generations of hardship to cull the "nonthrifty" trait.


That is very interesting; I will have to research that further. If I find something to contribute I will add it here.

Cinnamon has been purported to reduce glycemic levels; it's an easy add into the diet.


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## flintcreek

I'm an insulin-dependent (type 1) diabetic and a medical provider. Unopened (sterile) insulin vials stored at room temperature away from light will lose approximately 1% of potency per month (less if refrigerated). In the US, insulin is NON-prescription but insulin syringes require a prescription. Ultra-fine insulin needles can be purchased from Great Britain on eBay ($35/100). Syringes say single use only but I use one syringe per vial of insulin (2/month) and have never had an injection site infection.


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## BillM

*My God*



Bobbb said:


> If you have diabetes or are likely to get it or are concerned about someone with diabetes or at risk, then preparation on this issue is probably the single most critical prep you can make in order to survive. You can always scrounge around for food, water, shelter but insulin doesn't grow on trees and here life and death will be dependent on preparation. Gather your equipment now, before you put away food or ammo. Once you have your equipment then practice and make a few batches EVEN IF YOU DON'T USE THEM. There will be risk in using your home-made insulin, so don't use it and risk adverse outcomes. The point here is that when you run out of lab insulin and your choice boils down to dying or using home-made insulin, then the risk of the home made insulin is preferable to death. Keep in mind that the operative word here is risk, not certainty of bad, or even sub-optimal, outcome. Modern pharmaceutical practices yield very safe medicine whereas a home brew can't come up to those standards each and every time you make a batch.
> 
> Here's the original recipe which led to a Nobel Prize:
> 
> Best and Scott who are responsible for the preparation of insulin in the Insulin Division of the Connaught Laboratories have tested all the available methods and have appropriated certain details from many of these; several new procedures which have been found advantageous have been introduced by them.* The yield of insulin* obtained by Best and Scott at the Connaught Laboratories, by a preliminary extraction with dilute sulphuric acid followed by alcohol, *is 1,800 to 2,200 units per kg of pancreas*.
> 
> The present method of preparation is as follows. The beef or pork pancreas is finely minced in a large grinder and the minced material is then treated with 5 cc of concentrated sulphuric acid, appropriately diluted, per pound of glands. The mixture is stirred for a period of three or four hours and 95 per cent alcohol is added until the concentration of alcohol is 60 to 70 per cent. Two extractions of the glands are made. The solid material is then partially removed by centrifuging the mixture and the solution is further clarified by filtering through paper. The filtrate is practically neutralized with NaOH. The clear filtrate is concentrated in vacuo to about 1/15 of its original volume. The concentrate is then heated to 50°C which results in the separation of lipoid and other materials, which are removed by filtration. Ammonium sulphate (37 g per 100 cc) is then added to the concentrate and a protein material containing all the insulin floats to the top of the liquid. The precipitate is skimmed off and dissolved in hot acid alcohol. When the precipitate has completely dissolved, 10 volumes of warm alcohol are added. The solution is then neutralized with NaOH and cooled to room temperature, and kept in a refrigerator at 5°C for two days. At the end of this time the dark-coloured supernatant alcohol is decanted off. The alcohol contains practically no potency. The precipitate is dried in vacuo to remove all trace of the alcohol. It is then dissolved in acid water, in which it is readily soluble. The solution is made alkaline with NaOH to pH 7.3 to 7.5. At this alkalinity a dark-coloured precipitate settles out, and is immediately centrifuged off. This precipitate is washed once or twice with alkaline water of pH 9.0 and the washings are added to the main liquid. It is important that this process be carried out fairly quickly as insulin is destroyed in alkaline solution. The acidity is adjusted to pH 5.0 and a white precipitate readily settles out. Tricresol is added to a concentration of 0.3% in order to assist in the iso-electric precipitation and to act as a preservative. After standing one week in the ice chest, the supernatant liquid is decanted off and the resultant liquid is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate is then dissolved in a small quantity of acid water. A second iso-electric precipitation is carried out by adjusting the acidity to a pH of approximately 5.0. After standing overnight the resultant precipitate is removed by centrifuging. The precipitate, which contains the active principle in a comparatively pure form, is dissolved in acid water and the hydrogenion concentration adjusted to pH 2.5. The material is carefully tested to determine the potency and is then diluted to the desired strength of 10, 20, 40, or 80 units per cc. Tricresol is added to secure a concentration of 0.1 per cent. Sufficient sodium chloride is added to make the solution isotonic. The insulin solution is passed through a Mandler filter. After passing through the filter the insulin is retested carefully to determine its potency. There is practically no loss in berkefelding. The tested insulin is poured into sterile glass vials with aseptic precautions and the sterility of the final product thoroughly tested by approved methods.
> 
> The method of estimating the potency of insulin solutions is based on the effect that insulin produces upon the blood sugar of normal animals. Rabbits serve as the test animal. They are starved for twenty-four hours before the administration of insulin. Their weight should be approximately 2 kg. Insulin is distributed in strengths of 10, 20, 40, and 80 units per cc. The unit is one third of the amount of material required to lower the blood sugar of a 2-kg rabbit which has fasted twenty-four hours from the normal level (0.118 per cent) to 0.045 per cent over a period of five hours. In a moderately severe case of diabetes, one unit causes about 2.5 grams of carbohydrate to be utilized. In earlier and milder cases, as a rule, one unit has a greater effect, accounting for three to five grams of carbohydrate.​


My God, wouldn't it just be easier to make some Meth and trade it to a diabetic addict for their insulin / :surrender:


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## middyko

*Insulin in bulk*

I know that animals can also be diabetic, are there larger quantities that you can buy that are livestock grade that might store better and work in a pinch?


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## muskratmama

middyko said:


> I know that animals can also be diabetic, are there larger quantities that you can buy that are livestock grade that might store better and work in a pinch?


I'd be surprised, but interested to know if this is so. As far as I know insulin is used only for pets, and would not be available in large amts or reduced prices.
I would not keep diabetic livestock for any reason that I can think of.


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## drfacefixer

You probably wouldn't have a clue that your cow was in DKA, it would just die and you would move on. Without signs and symptoms to concern you with an infectious agent, it wouldn't be worth it to autopsy and lab test rarer causes of death in animals. Diabetes is disease associated with immune responce in the young and age. Live stock usually don't get to an age were development would be common and finding it in a calf would be blind luck. Humans complain about the polyuria, polydipsia, and polyphagia and usually seek help before becoming comatose. know one listens to a cow.


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## Dixie

Our dog had diabetes, but the amount of insulin needed for a dog vs a cow would not be quite the same and not enough to fool with.


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## BillM

Hell, I can barely make cornbread !


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## drfacefixer

*College library*

there are much better instructions and multiple revisions and yield modifications published in journal of organic chemistry but they all mostly pre 1940. You'll likely only find them in a college library. Next time I'm near one I'll try to pick it up if its really desired. For sure, it's not an easy process, would require hundreds of dollars in lab eqipment and you would need an unending supply of animals. You probably would like need the basic principles of inorganic and organic chemistry. I would need to dust off a few supplement rxn references just to even try to figure out whats trying to be said here and I was a chemistry major. Storage of insulin as discussed prior is definitey the way to go. Insulin is cheap and for the cost of lab reagents alone you would have a sweet backup refridgeration system like someone else discussed once.


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## BankerGal

flintcreek said:


> I'm an insulin-dependent (type 1) diabetic and a medical provider. Unopened (sterile) insulin vials stored at room temperature away from light will lose approximately 1% of potency per month (less if refrigerated). In the US, insulin is NON-prescription but insulin syringes require a prescription. Ultra-fine insulin needles can be purchased from Great Britain on eBay ($35/100). Syringes say single use only but I use one syringe per vial of insulin (2/month) and have never had an injection site infection.


I'm also Type 1. It's an autoimmune issue - I don't produce any insulin at all. To better control my bG, I switched to an insulin pump a while back. I currently change out the subcutaneous catheter every three days, that's the recommended interval. However, I could probably stretch it to five or six days if necessary. I have about two hundred catheter sets. My insurance only provides 3 months supplies at a time, but I bought the extra sets from a lady who switched to a different type of pump. My backup pump is protected in a homemade faraday cage. The pump uses batteries, so I have a ton of rechargeable batteries and a solar charger. I have a lot of insulin stored, but if a new supply doesn't become available within about 3 years of an event, I'm probably toast. 
However, my purpose is to make sure my kids and their kids are set up properly. With current preps and three years post-SHTF, that's better than most people have, so I can't complain.


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## Steadfast

I know nothing about birthen no insulin...

but I do have one question... and yes, it is a bit of a sick one...

you all state that animal Pancreases sources have complications...

If the hammer falls there will be LOTS of dead people...
what are the complecations involved in harvesting the pancreases from the freshly dead?
(EI: those killed in fire fights, not the sick)

would blood type play a roll???


Told you it was sick... but in a SHTF senerio NOTHING should be wasted to save the living.


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## LincTex

Steadfast said:


> what are the complications involved in harvesting the pancreases from the freshly dead?


Nearly as many complications as one could imagine - just like it was explained in the first part of this thread, it is EXTREMELY difficult to process insulin.

Possible? Yes, sure. 
Easy to do? Not at all.


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## Steadfast

I can imagin a whole lot....
what examples can you suggest?

Necessity is the mother of invention... and when life and death are on the line...

I just cant imagine not exploring this option and thus throwing away potential life found in the organs of the dieing if it can make enough insulin to save lives...


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## Steadfast

BTW: Jerusalem Artachoke has had some pretty good blood sugar reducing results...


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## Steadfast

Another thing... (sure, its barbaric)
BUT....
after a large fire fight engagement...

shouldn’t we also consider immediately paring up and using the blood of those who live, yet have terminal injuries, who can not be saved, as blood donor hosts for those who can be saved, before they both expire?


How long does blood stay "Good" inside a person after someone dies?
if it is hours rather than minutes should'nt this be taken into account as well?


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## camo2460

Steadfast said:


> Another thing... (sure, its barbaric)
> BUT....
> after a large fire fight engagement...
> 
> shouldn't we also consider immediately paring up and using the blood of those who live, yet have terminal injuries, who can not be saved, as blood donor hosts for those who can be saved, before they both expire?
> 
> How long does blood stay "Good" inside a person after someone dies?
> if it is hours rather than minutes should'nt this be taken into account as well?


Man, I have no idea where to start answering a question like that.... Lets see, first off the person is dead, that means no heart beat, no blood circulation, how are you going to get the blood out? A bicycle pump? Second how are you going to type the blood? It's really bad juju to give the wrong type blood. Third what kind of Illnesses does the "donor" have? maybe he had a very contagious disease which could be introduced into you or maybe a whole community. Fourth you don't know how long a "fire fight" is going to last and I wouldn't want to use anything from a body that has been laying in the hot sun for an hour or two.

Perhaps you should do a little research on how things work before posing questions like the above. I don't mean to be a prick but you seem to be a little naïve and have an unrealistic views.


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## drfacefixer

Steadfast said:


> Another thing... (sure, its barbaric)
> BUT....
> after a large fire fight engagement...
> 
> shouldn't we also consider immediately paring up and using the blood of those who live, yet have terminal injuries, who can not be saved, as blood donor hosts for those who can be saved, before they both expire?
> 
> How long does blood stay "Good" inside a person after someone dies?
> if it is hours rather than minutes should'nt this be taken into account as well?


Silly question. Coagulation occurs within minutes after death. You would be risking a potentially fatal transfusion reaction without cross matching. Transfusions are much more complicated than simple A B AND O typing. Best you could do Is treat symptomatic hypovolemia with fluid replacement. If they are suffering from dypsea, then the loss of blood is a secondary issue to the wound. without surgery you are not going to be able to control continued hemmorage or infection from extensive tissue dammage. A good rule of thumb is most gsw that are more than a graze or a thru and thru to a distal appendage are fatal. Modern survival rates are because the care and monitoring given from the first to the 24th hour greatly decrease the mortality of the wound.


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## muskratmama

Steadfast said:


> Another thing... (sure, its barbaric)
> BUT....
> after a large fire fight engagement...
> 
> shouldn't we also consider immediately paring up and using the blood of those who live, yet have terminal injuries, who can not be saved, as blood donor hosts for those who can be saved, before they both expire?
> 
> How long does blood stay "Good" inside a person after someone dies?
> if it is hours rather than minutes should'nt this be taken into account as well?


This IS disturbing. Besides the physical impossibility. This scenario is still a fantasy and you're planning to cannibalize your not-yet-dead neighbors. The truth of the matter is that if something happens to cause the end of technology, the ill and fragile are going to die. Type I diabetics will die. Lots of even the "prepared" are going to die regardless of how many lentils we have hidden. 
Let me suggest that you invest in some literature that discusses how people face adversity with grace and courage. 
There's a new book called "The Society of Timid Souls. 
Flight 93, Heros of the Holocaust, Dietrich Bonhoeffer for instance. The Bible. Preparation is good, but don't loose sight of what we want to preserve - civilized humanity, our children or at least somebody's children but not specifically our own worthless little hides.


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## Steadfast

Naïve Yes...
Hard questions yes...

There is nothing wrong with being naïve or ignorant, as long as you are actively trying to educate your way out of those states.

I have learned that the only stupid question is the one not asked.

we must explore all possibilities now... so we can accept or reject these things now for the right reasons.

It is easy to think Now, while well feed, under no stress, and with modern technologies.
and if you are not willing to ask the hard questions now,
and to explore the hard possibilities now,
you will be doomed to commit huge moral tragities or to waste chances to save life, due to fear or ignorance then.
After all, it will be MUCH harder to think, while hungry, under life an death stresses, in a technological vacuum, then. 

I hate being ignorant, that is why i ask now...

perhaps in the first days we can all put on tags with our blood types.
I am O+, a universal donor, and if I was shot with a terminal injury and had only hours to live, I for one would want to be bleed dry to save the other wounded members in my group as long as my heart could pump it out...

If I was dying in this way, I would be willing to even have my healthy pancreas cut out of me too, if my group had the proven ability to make insulin...and if I was not sick. (A heck of a LOTa "ifs" there)

but that’s me... (how is that for My Christian viewpoint)

life is precious and NOTHING should be wasted.
we should be willing, ready, and mutually agreed to use ANYTHING to save life, short of eating the dead of course.

Canabalism is never an option...


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## Steadfast

I have another "ignorant" question...

Does anyone know if it is possible to use eggs to make multiple doses of inoculations using one dose salvaged from a pharmacy?

Where I could find information or an article on how to do so, in the field, if it is possible?


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## camo2460

Steadfast said:


> Naive Yes...
> Hard questions yes...
> 
> I have learned that the only stupid question is the one not asked.
> we must explore all possibilities now... so we can accept or reject these things now for the right reasons.
> 
> It is easy to think Now, while well feed, under no stress, and with modern technologies.
> and if you are not willing to ask the hard questions now,
> and to explore the hard possibilities now,
> you will be doomed to commit huge moral tragities or to waste chances to save life, due to fear or ignorance then.
> After all, it will be MUCH harder to think, while hungry, under life an death stresses, in a technological vacuum, then.
> 
> I hate being ignorant, that is why i ask now...
> 
> perhaps in the first days we can all put on tags with our blood types.
> I am O+, a universal donor, and if I was shot with a terminal injury and had only hours to live, I for one would want to be bleed dry to save the other wounded members in my group as long as my heart could pump it out...
> 
> If I was dying in this way, I would be willing to even have my healthy pancreas cut out of me too, if my group had the proven ability to make insulin...and if I was not sick. (A heck of a LOTa "ifs" there)
> 
> but that's me... (how is that for My Christian viewpoint)
> 
> life is precious and NOTHING should be wasted.
> we should be willing, ready, and mutually agreed to use ANYTHING to save life, short of eating the dead of course.
> 
> Canabalism is never an option...


Dude are you serious? you talk about morality yet you are willing to "drain" a living person dry of blood to "save" some one else, or to cut a healthy Pancreas from a living person in order to make Insulin. While you use yourself as an example, I seriously doubt that that you have ever been in a life or death situation, or had to make a life or death decision. While asking questions is a good thing, such questions as you asked call into question your own moral integrity and paint you as a heartless monster, willing to do anything to preserve life. Remember there are some things that are worse than death.


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## Steadfast

also, have you guys discussed the use of a solar refrigerator to keep insulin and other drugs cold?

To make one You will need:
two 250 watt Solar panels
12 gauge wire
a solar charge controller (in an EMP faraday cage)
Inverter that can run a small fridge (in an EMP faraday cage)
Four 6volt golf cart batteries
12 gauge wire 
2 small refrigerators. (stored)

insulin:
Humulin N expires in almost 3 years
Humulin R expires in 2 1/2 years
Novolin N expires in 2 1/2 years
Novolog expires in 2 1/2 years

Another advantage of having a solar fridge is tht you can also use it power source for Ham radio transmissions...


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## Steadfast

camo2460 said:


> Dude are you serious? you talk about morality yet you are willing to "drain" a living person dry of blood to "save" some one else, or to cut a healthy Pancreas from a living person in order to make Insulin..


yes, if the donor was hopelessly expiring and it will save a life that would otherwise be needlessly wasted... absolutly.



camo2460 said:


> While you use yourself as an example, I seriously doubt that that you have ever been in a life or death situation, or had to make a life or death decision. While asking questions is a good thing, such questions as you asked call into question your own moral integrity and paint you as a heartless monster, willing to do anything to preserve life. Remember there are some things that are worse than death.


The choice to offer myself for such a thing would have to be made by me alone, and by others alone, ahead of time and noted by the group.
I give blood regularly for the same reason...
I am also a registered organ donor for the same reason...

To not even try discuss such grizzly choices now, and to work them through morally now, is in itself a life or death decision...

If you can not bring yourself to even attempt to discuss these kinds of ugly yet practical options now, I would be affraid to have you working in my group's medical center then...

BTW:
My moral integrity is between God and me, and WE are quite good, that I assure you. (So your accusations of my charictor dont bother me at all)


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## drfacefixer

Steadfast said:


> I have another "ignorant" question...
> 
> Does anyone know if it is possible to use eggs to make multiple doses of inoculations using one dose salvaged from a pharmacy?
> 
> Where I could find information or an article on how to do so, in the field, if it is possible?


no. you can't do this as most of todays vaccines (which I'm guessing you are referring too as inoculations) are subunits of a virus or bacteria.That means they are justs the selected parts of a virus or bacteria you're immune system responds to. Very few are whole live attenuated. These are selected under pressures to grow in very strictly controlled environments that you are only going to recreate with millions of dollars of machinery found in well developed countries.

I don't think you have the slightest comprehension of transfusions. It's not like a video game of "tanking" up on someone else's blood to refill your life bar after a "firefight".

To transfuse one liter of blood takes about 30 minutes, specialized bags, citrate tubing, monitors, heparin, and lab equipment to type and cross. You also need all the skills required to do this.

In a trauma setting, if a person is injured bad enough to lose enough blood then they have likely 1. wounds requiring surgery. 2. a lack of clotting factors to control hemorrhage. Usually when giving 1 unit of blood, one unit of FFP, and a unit of platlets will be given too. Blood given by itself will just leak right back out. It takes a blood bank to separate blood products.

You can't just give a pint of O blood to anyone by draining in into an iv bag and hanging up on someone elses line. You would likely end up with a bag full of clotted blood before you even filled it. Even if you had the specialized bag, tubing, warmer and were lucky enough to be a match (there are a great many more alleles than A,AB,B and O) you would need to be able to keep the blood from clotting as it is given. If you can't control to clotting, you just gave your buddy a stroke or pulmonary embolism. All you are going to do is kill him quicker.

Lets not even talk about trying to synthesize insulin


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## cowboyhermit

drfacefixer said:


> To transfuse one liter of blood takes about 30 minutes, specialized bags, citrate tubing, monitors, heparin, and lab equipment to type and cross. You also need all the skills required to do this.


I think all the points you (and camo and others) raised are spot on, but it would be possible to do cross matching with family/group members beforehand and technically it would be possible to use one of the WW2 era person-person kits with one healthy person. In reality I would probably rather risk the blood loss


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## drfacefixer

Yeah. I didn't bring up historical blood transfusion principles because they are all based on the premise that its a good Idea to replace lost blood volume. This has been studied and restudied. We are now on the 8th version of advanced trauma life support (ATLS) and all the data points to giving additional blood usually has more risks than benefits unless you're actually showing signs of poor oxygen transport at rest. It's actually ideal to be asymptomatically hypovolemic and hypotensive after an injury to reduce bleeding or antagonize an early and weak clot. 

The majority of people know about the "ABO" system - all blood belongs to one of four major groups: A+/-, B+/-, AB+/-, or O+/-. But there are more than two hundred minor blood groups that can complicate blood transfusions. You could type and cross a family member or may have received a transfusion. Its costly and usually not done preemptively unless you are under going a surgery which has a risk of high volume of blood loss. When a large volume is lost interpretatively, the surgeon or the anesthetist can make the call to type and cross and uncomplicated blood matches can be ready within the hour. I've seen case where people with past transfusion histories have multiple minor proteins, making cross specific matches very difficult. Usually multiple hospital blood banks have to be called. 

I'm with you, just stop the bleeding. Your body will make due with what it has. Easier than trying to even think about transfusion items, look at the problem from another perspective. You lost blood which only need to be replaced for poor oxygen transport or loss of clotting factors. If you can provide supplemental oxygen, you've done sometime that for a short time has much benefit and little risk. If loss of clotting factors is the issue - even with modern medicine DIC is a high morbidity complication.


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## BillM

Hell, I can barely make Biscuits, much less insulin !


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## ContinualHarvest

If you plan on doing this, you're going to need a lab, enough equipment to standardize your sulfuric acid and NaOH. Phenolphthalein is needed to do the titrations so you know what pH your solutions are at. Oh, and you may want to make sure you are very comfortable with General, Organic, and Bio Chemistry.


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